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HIS EXCELLENCY S ANSWER TO THE SAME, AND THE PROCEEDINGS HAD 3Y TH15\10VSE OP ASSEMBLY DURING THE 1st SES^OK 11th PROV. PARL. ON THE PASSING OF A BILL FOR THE PAYMENT OF SALA- RIES TO PRINCIPAL OFFICERS OF THE GOVERNMENT. <-' Ordflrcd by Ui« Houm or AtMmbly to he printcil. 1836. "m A »»'': ADDRESS TO Hl« Excellency sir Francis Bond Head* LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR OF UPPIHl CANADA : FOR COPIES OF DESPATCHES FROM HIS MAJESTY'S GOVERNMENT, ON THE SUBJECT 01' THE Sntteventientr of tlie SuHsem^ A5D OF THE €EISI»10I«^ OF THE REVENUE UNDER 14 GEO. III. TO THE LEGISLATURE OF THIS PROVINCE. /^ %} ' HIS EXCELLENCY S ANSWER TO THE ?AME, WLltf^ ti^r aiQtnmrntfit VrefteH; AND THE PROCEEDINGS HAD BY THE HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY DURING THE 1st SESSION IIth PROV. PARL. ON THE PASSING OF A BILL FOR THE PAYMENT OF SALA- RIES TO PRINCIPAL OFFICERS ; OF THE GOVERNMENT. Ordered by the Uouie of AsHembly to be printed. TOROHTO : M. REYNOLD B. 1836. 1 ADDKlilSS, 19IESSAOE, Sec. Thursday, 11th February, 1836. To His Excellencij Sir Fraruis Dcvd Head, Knifrhi Com- mandcr of the RoyalHanonc.rinn Guclphic Ordei\ and of the Prussian Military Order of Merit, Lieute- nant Governor of the Province of Upper Canada^ 4*c. Sfc. &c. Mat it flease Your Excellency: We, His Majesty's clutilul and loyal sul>jGcts, the Commons of Upper Canada in Provincial Parliament assem- bled, humbly request that Your Excellency will lay before this House copies of all despatches from His Majesty's Government transmitted to Your Excellency's predecessor Sir John Colborne, diiritigthe years 1830, 1831, or 1832, relative to the indepen- dence of the Judges in this Province, and excluding them from seats in the Legislative and Executive Councils, as also any com- munication or correspondence at any time since the year 1830, between His Majesty's Government and the Executive Govt rn- nient of this Colony relative to a recommendation from His Ma- jesty's Government that the Chief Justice of the Proviiuo should abstain from all proceedings in the Legislative Council, | by which he might be involved in any political contention of a ;!* party nature — and also copies of all official correspGudence be- tween His Majesty's Government and the Government of this Province, relative to the cession by His Majesty of the revenue raised under the statute 14ih George the 3rd, to tho appropria- tion of the Legislature, and the particul »r provision for the seve- ral officers of the Governnitiut required by His Majesty to be made by the Legislature, on the cession of the s lid revenue. MARSHALL S. BIDVVELL, Speaker. Commons House of Assembly, \ 11th February, 183G. ) F. B. HEAP, The Lieutenant Governor transmits to the House of Assembly, in compliance with the address of the House, dated the lllli instant, copies of the public despatches from His Majesty's Secretary of State for the Colonies, to the Lieutenant Governor of this Province, during the years 1830, i 1831, and 1832, relative to the indopcndcnco of the Judges, — th« surrender by His Majesty tu (he cuntrol of the Provincial Le- gislature of the Province of the revenue raised under the statute of the Imperial Parliament, of the 14th Geo. 3rd, Cap. 88, — and the provision for the principal officers of the Government, requir- ed by His Majesty, to be made by the Legislature, oo th« Cesition of the said revenue. Crocernment House ^ 25tk Fchruary^ 1836. No. 2. Sir, (Copy.) Downing Street, ^ 24th December 1830. > You will see by the enclosed copies of despatches, which I have addressed to Lord Aylnier, that instructions have been conveyed to his Lordship with the hope ol bringing to an amica- ble settlement the difl'erences which have so long existed be- tween the two branches of the Legislature of Lovi'er Canada, in consequence of the right claimed by the Assembly, to appro- priate the revenue raised under the British act of 14 Geo. 3d, which has hitherto been applied to the support of the civil gov- ernment, under the warrants of the Lords Commissioners of tho Treasury. His Majesty's Government is of opinion that this important object will be best accomplished by placing the revenue in ques- tion at the complete disposal of the Provincial Legislature ; and by calling upon the Assembly in return to provide for such a moderate civil list as may be indispensably necessary ; in which the Lieutenant Governor, the Judges and other principal officers of the Government, whose salaries ought not to depend on the annual votes of the Legislature may be included. This course having been deemed expedient in the Lower Province, every consideration of prudence and policy combine to render its application to Upper Canada almost a matter of course. You will accordingly, taking the instructions which I have conveyed to Lord Aylmer as your guide, proceed to the arrange ment of this important point, and in making the proposition, which it will be your duty to bring forward, you will not fail to assure the Assembly of the sincere and anxious desire of His Ma- jesty to meet the wishes of His loyal and affectionate subjects in Upper Canada, and his confident expectation, that this feeling will be reciprocal on the part of their representatives. I transmit to you No. 1, an estmiate of tho fuads now at the dis posul of the Crown, which it is proposed to give up to tho appro ' 5 jlT-Htion of tho Assembly ; and Nr. 2, the civil li»t, which ycni will invito ihcin tu grunt in lieu of the^e r«ivt;nue», viz : (Xo. 1.) Customs dufios, levied under the 14ih Geo. 3rd, and Innkeepers' Licenses, at a moderate computation, £10,()00 Fee Fund 1,500 £li,:>00 (No. 2.) The Civil List as explained in my despatch to Lord Aylmcr may consist of tiirce Classes as follows, viz : 1st Class. Lieutenant Governor X3000 Provincial Secretary 800 Contingencies ,,, 3oO £3,600 2nd Class. Chief Justice £1,500 Two Puisne Judges 1,800 Attorney General ••... 300 Solicitor General lOO Contingenciiis 300 £4,000 3rd Class. Pensions £3,000 (To be reduced as vacancies occur to £1,000.) Miscellaneous 200 £3,200 Total of the three classes £10,800 It will not however bo necessary to call upon the Legislature to grant the whole of the sum of £10,800 inasmuch as by the Provincial Act of 53rd Geo. 3rd, the sum of £2,500 Currency, (equal to £2131 Sterling) is granted towards the maintenance of the Civil Government ; the moderate sum of £8,669, is, there- fore, all that is required for the completion of the proposed ar- rangement. The manner in which it is intended to relieve the Lords of the Treasury from the appropriation of the duties raised under the 14th Geo. 3rd being fully detailed in my Despatch to Lord Aylmer, it is unnecessary for me to enter into any further expla- ^ 6 nation on that part of tlu- suhjecf. Tlio d'lration oftlio civil list. must as in the Lowui Province hi' fixi'd in Upper Canada either for the life o\ ilis Majesty or for a term of not less than seven years. 1 have only in addition to express my earnest hope that no exertion on your part will be omitted to induce tiie LegisJatnro to accede to the proposal, uliich you nre instructed to make to them ; «incp, besides having!the merit of settling a point ol great importance, if not difficulty, it will place at the dis|)osal of the Assembly, a sum larger in amount than the Civil List for which they are called upon to provide. 1 have, itc. (Sigmd) IMajor (lenneral Sir John Coi-noiiNE, K. C. B. &,(*. 6lc. &r. coDEincn. (Copy.) No. 11. Downing Street, ) 24th December, 1830. ) My Lord, Amongst tlie first objects which have called for my attention since His Miijesty was pleased to place the seals of iho Colonial Office in my hands is the painful siate of disunion, which has for so marty yenrs prevailed in Lower Canada respecting that part of the revenue, which is raised by duties levied under va- rious acts of the British Parliimicnt, and appropriated by war- rants from the Lords of the Treasury. Your Excellency will doubtless have felt how seriously this state of things embarrasses all the operations of the local government. But whilst its pre- sent effect is to weaken the just influence and authority of the Executive power, its future consequences upon the connection be- tween the Province and the Mother country, might become most disastrous, if not fatal. It appears to me therefore as it hjis ap- peared to my predecessor Sir George Murray, to be indispensa- bly necessary, that an immediate and amicable adjustment of the question should be brought about, and His Majesty's Government is decidedly of opinion that any attempt at such an adjustment would be ineffectual, which did not involve the entin assignment of the revenue raised under the acts in question to the disposal of the Provincial Legislature, under a conviction that they will con- sent to such a reasonable grant of a civil list as may be necessa- ry for en-uring, at al! events, the independence of the Governor and Juti ,es. I cannot think that such an assignment of these duties would be inconsistent with the honor and dignity of the Crown. The duties are neither levied nor appropriated by tho mere Royal Prerogative, they owe their existence t( a snecff^r. 5pec» Act of PailiiiriH'iit, passed ;it a time irbcn there tlld not exisJ in tlio Frnvinco any legal (neans by which duties of tiiat description rould he iniposed ; and ah hough it be true, thai the Act of Par- liament, which imposes them, directs the Lords of the Treasury to appropriate them, it must nevertheless be admitted, that the same Parliamentary authority might without any violttion of the Royal ProrogJtive, have directed in the first instance, and niigiit now direct by amondmcut, the appropriation of them in any manner. The subject being thus disembarrassed of the difficulties arising out of the Royal Prerogative and the dignity of the Crown, it resolves itself into a mere quastion of expediency viz : whether the advantages supposed to be derived from retain- ing the exi.uing mode of appropriation are or are not counterbal- lanred by the manifold evils occasioned by the increasing and apparently irreconcilable disunion between the Governor and the legislature of the Province. In considering this question it may at once be admitted, that there are conveniences attending the present system, which ought not to be undervalued in a country where the relations of the government and the people are not held together by the same sort of ancient ties, which unite the various classes of society in the parent state. But these con- veniences may be bought at too dcai a rate, and the experience of the last few years has convinced His Majesty's Government, that a difTcreni policy is not only expedient but indispensable. In order however to render the change effectual to the great object of restoring harmony and concord, it must be complete : To give up part of the duties in question to the disposal of the Legislature, and at the same time to reserve the remainder at the disposal of the Crown, as a matter of right, would on the one hand be a distinct admission of the principle, that the present mode of appropriation is defective, whilst on the other it would efTectually prevent the concession from being either gracious or conclusive. Its ungraciousness would be in proportion to its in- efliciency ; and the arrangement never could bo final so long as any part of the obnoxious practice were retained. The principle, therefore, upon which His Majesty's Govern ment is of opinion, that you ought to proceed in endeavouring to settle this question is derived from the practice of this country, as recently exemplified in that part of His Majesty's Speech from the throne upon the opening of the present Session, which refers to the civil list. His Majesty there gives up all his interest in his hereditary revenues, and in some other sources of his loyal income, to the free disposal of parliament; and His Majesty asks in return, for such a civil list as Parliament may deem adequate for that important object. It is not attempted to balance an ex- act amount of the revenue given up against the amount of the civil list which (he Legislature is invited to grant, but on the con- 8 itnry whilst His Majesty freuiy gives up liis interest in the reve-' nues, which are thus left to Parliamentary disposal the amount of the civil list is left to be arranged upon principles in which it is intended to combine a reasonable economy, with a just consi- deration of what is due to the hcnor, the dignity and comfort of the Crown. There is sojiething in this mode of proceeding at once so sim- ple in itself, so free from future difficulties and disagreements, so consistent with the King's honor and with the dutiful attachment of his people, that the King's Government cannot doubt that a proposition similar in principle and emanating from the same feel'iigs will not fail to be received by His Majesty's faithful sub- jects, the Legislature of Lower Canada, as an undoubted proof of His Majesty's paternal anxiety for their welfare, his desire to consult their feelings and his confidence in the loyalty of his North American subjects. The instruction, therefore, which I am now commanded by His Majesty to convey to you is, that you should at the earliest convenient period make a communication to the Legislature to the following effect : That His Majesty taiving into consideration the best mode of contributing to the prosperity and contentment of his faithful sub- jects of the Province of Lower Canada, places at the disposal of the Legislature all His Majesty's interest in those taxes, which are now levied in the Province by virtue of different acts of the British Parliament ; and which are appropriated by the Treasu- ry under His Majesty's commands, together with all fines and for- feitures levied under the authority of such acts. That His Ma- jesty relying on the liberality and justice of the Legislature of Lower Canada invites them to consider the propriety of making some settled provision for such portion of the expenses of the Civil Government of the Province, as may upon examination ap- pear to require an arrangement of a more permanent nature than those supplies which it belongs to the Legislature to deter- mine by annual votes. That His Majesty has directed an estimate to be prepared and laid before them, of the sum which may be required for that pur- pose ; and that in directing the preparation of that estimate. Hit Majesty has boen guided by a wish, never absent from his heart, to call upon his faithful subjects for no other supply than such as may appear to be required for the due execution of those servi- ces, which it is proposed to charge upon the Civil List. His Majesty concedes the disposal of these revenues with cor- dial good will, and cannot doubt that It will be met with a reci- procal feeling by the Representatives of an attached and loyal people. Such being the nature of the communication which it will be your duty to make, in the King'& .'iar:ie, to the Legislature. I have now to submit to you an estima^s of that, which it is pro- 9 posed to CQncede, and that which the Assembly may be invited to grant as a Civil List. The Revenues to be given up are as follows, viz : Customs duties levied under the 14fh Geo. 3, ch. 88, after de- ducting a portion for Upper Canada upon vn average of two years, £28,336 Licenses under do. and 41 Geo. 3, 2,704 Fines and forfeitures average of, two years,. .. . 699 Total, £31,699 The Civil List to be proposed to the adoption of the Legisla- ture should be divided like the Civil List in tiiis country, into separate classes, with a defiiiiio exponuituie assigned to each class. It may consist of three, 1st — The Civil Govrn/.nent as fur ;>s regards the Governor and his immediate Executive Olliccrs. 2nd — Jtjdges and Administration of Justice. 3rd — Pensions and JNliscellaneous Ilesr.s to n)ect unforeseen Conliijgsncies. No. 1 — May be composed of the following items : £ s. d. ' £ Governor's Salary, ' 4,500 Provincial Secretary, | 400 Contingencies No. 2, as follows : Chief Justice, 1,500 do. Montreal, 1,200 6 Puisne Judges, 900 each, -5,400 3 Provincial Judges, 1 1,600 Jtid^e of Vice Admiralty Court,. 200 Attorney General, Solicitor General,. Allowaince to Judges for circuits, Cofitingencres,.. 3rd Class. Pcnsionfs, IVtiscellaneous, s. d. 5,200 11,150 2,750 Total 3 classes, £19,100 K wrftnot, however, be necessary to call upon the Legisla tute'to grant the w))olo of the sum of £19,100, inasmuch as b^ th^-Provincial Act of 3"^, Geo. 3, Chap, the sum cf £5000, i's permanently granted towards liie niaint.aance ot the Civil Gov- by iO ernmriuf- The moderate sum of JC14,100 is therefore all tbat i«. deemed necessary to osk tor the compictiun of the proposed aif- raiigcment.. Having now statod to Your Lordship the nature and detaili of the proposition to be submitted to the Legislature, I proceed to explain the mode in which the arrangement can best be car- ried into effect. As tho duties wiih which it is proposed to dea^ in the manner above described, are appropriated by Acts of the British Par- liament, the chnngciu their disposition cannot take place withoiU the sanction of the same authority — a bill will therefore be sub- mitted to Parliament, in the course of the present session, for tho purpose of releasing the Lords of the Treasury from their present obligation of r.ppropriating the duties, and for authorisiQ^ His Majesty to Inave tiieir appiopriation to the Colonial Legisla- ture. The date nt which it is proposed that the bill should comir in operation is on July 1st, 1832. This distant period is taken in order, on the ono hand, to give full time for the Legislature of Lower Canada to make the necessary provision on their part; and on the other to enable His Majesty's Government to meet the possible (though I trust highly improbable) contingency of such a satisfactory result not taking place. In order, however, to ennble the government at home to g!v« the earliest possible effect to the ir.easures, which may be taken by: the Colonial Legislature, for the satisfactory settlement of this- question, it is proposed to give His Majesty in Council, a powar to bring the British law into operation at an earlier period tkai* July 1st, 1832. If therefore, the Canadian Act should provide- for the commencement of the proposed civil list, in January Ijt 1832, (which I should be inclined to recommend,) or at any ear- lier period, then His Majesty's government would lose no time in advising the issue of an order in Council, to accelerate tfao commencement of the British Act, so that the whole plan would come simultaneously into effect. It only now remains for me to state, tbat the duration of the civil list may be either for the life of His Majesty, or for some definite term of years, not under seven, as may be more agreea- ble to the Provincial Legislature. I trust, that the arrangements detailed in this despatch will be received in the spirit in which they are detailed, a spirit of con- ciliation and confidence. His Majesty is prepared to surrender a large end increasing revenue ; he asks in return for a fixed and moderate Civil List^ much less in amount than the revenue given up ; and the settlement of this long agitated and perplexing ques- tion, will be deemed by His Majesty one of the happiest events of His reign, the glory of which (the people of Canada may be assured) will be the promotion of the happiness and content of 11 m\\ clasMi of hit giibjects in every quarter of the Globe. i . , I have, dec. (Signed) GODERICM, Lieut. General Lord Aylmer, K. C. B, &.C. &.C. &LC. (Copy.) Doirning Street ^ S 8lh February, 1S31. ) Sir, In ihe despatch, dated the 24ih Decen)ber h>sf, No. 2, which I had the honor to address to you on the subject of tbo Financial arrangements to be proposed to ihe Legislative Coun- cil and Assembly of the Province of Upper Canuda, I signified 10 you His Majesty's pleasure, that you should propose to the Provincial Assembly to grant such a civil list as niigfit be Bcres- sary for securing, at all events, the independonce of the Govern- or and of the Judges. The various sums proposed in tli.it Ac.h- patch, for the maintenance of ihe J'jdg(>s, aniount togfihcr to >- tue, upon a full review of the great question of judicial indfpen- dence in his Canadian Provinces. The connexion which happily subsists between tiie Ciinadas and this kingdom, suggests the propriety of transferring to those Provinces every institution which the more ;tmpIo cxperienci.' of Great Britain recommends as calculated to promote at o ,ce tlio atability ofGovernment Lad the welfare of society at larrre. There is no branch of our civil polity, which has ueen more fully prov- ed to be conducive to these great ends than ?hi? establishment of judges independent at once on the royal autiioiity, and on tho |>)easure of the popular branch of the Legislature, There was not, I apprehend, any legul or coiistitulion-d rea- 1-2 son which woultl have prevented (he Kin!» from gratiiir^ tho o^-: CCS of the judges of Englaiifl, during their good behaviour, but to render that principle immutable, it was necessury that Parlia- ment should prtscribu tho form of commissiun, to ba used oil such occasions. Accorflinirly, tho Statutes passed in (he 13th year of the reipn of VViPinm the Third, and in the first year of George tho I'hird, have deprived the Crowu of all di^cretion on the subject. In conformity with these precedents, and in piirsu'^ncc of the great general principle on which they were fowadr J, tho King is gracionsly pleased to command, that you do avail your- self of t!jc earliest opportunity for proposing to the Legislative Council and Assembly of Upper Canada, the enactment of a bill declaring that the commissiuns of ail the Judges of the suprpme courts shall be granted to endure during their good behaviour, nud not during the Royal plua:;ur'?, and you will in the name and on the behalf of tih Mnjesiy, nssenl to a bill for carrying that object into efiect. It is. of course, an. esspntial condition of this arrangement, tliat an adequate and permanent provision should be made for the Ju'l|[^os, and I am happy to find, that the repeated assurances of the House of Assembly, jireclude the possibility of any objec- tion being made by that body to ihis part of the proposal. In further pursuance of the general design of in)t3»rting to tho Canadas the benefit of this important principle of the Bri- tish constitution, I am to siiinify to you His Majesty's command* to communicate to the Legislative Council and Assembly, His Majesty's settled purpose to nominate, on no future occasion, any Jud,<;;e as a member, citlier of the Executive or of the Legislative Council of tho , Province. Whatever reliance might be placed on tho personal integrity of the Judges, it is desirable that they should be exempted from all temptation to interfere in Political controversies, and even fronj a suspicion of any such interfer- eacc. Tho single exception to this rule, will be that of the Chief Justice of Upper Canada, who will be a mcraber of the Legisla- tive Council, in order that they may have the benefit of bis as- sistance iu iraming laws of a general and parmanent chpracter. But His iMajvsty will not fail to recommend, even to^that high officer, a cautious abstinence from all proceedings by which ha might ha involved in any political contentions of a party nature. You wiil perceive that these rules are framed With refer- rcnoo to the conesponding practice in this kingdom, where al- though it has not been unusual to elevate the Chief Justice of the King's Bench, ar.I othor Chief Judges to the Peerage, lUe Puisae Jijd«Tns cnnnot vole in cither House of Parliament. ''l am persuaded that the Council aud Asseiably of Upper 13 Canadn will perceive in the measures which I iiav« thus had (be honor of explaiaing, an additional proof of the detiro by which tho King is at all tinnrs Hctuated to promote the best interests of that important part of the British (Cnipire. I have, &e. (Signed) GODERICH. M. General Sir John Colboriie, K. C. B. Sec. &.C. 6ic. (Copv.) No. 8. ^^rP^^ Canada, \ York, 21stM ** I h?(ve ihtt honor to acknowledge the receipt of your letter of ti>e 24th December, with copies of inslructiong» which have been conveye-i to Lnrd AJfiier respecting the rcvo- nue proposed to be placed under tl)e4ontrol of the Legislatures of these Provinces, and to acquaint your Lordship that I took an early opportunity of laying that iojportant subject before the House of Asseuihly. I regret to state that it was not considered expedient by the Assembly to grant the arnount propo^ed in my n)essage. They objected to provide for the part of tho Lieutenant Governors sa- lary, wluch had been tdways defrayed from the Casual and Ter- ritorial Revenue, and also for pensions of every description — and decided that the simi f;:!r contingencies ought to depend on an Annual vote. But they have granted the sum of £6,500 perma- nently for the salaries ef the undermentioned officers, and have repealed the Provincial Act of the 56 Geo. 3d, chap. 26. Salary of the II, 44 it {( It GoverncT £ 2000 Judges 3,300 Attorney General 800 Solicitor General,. , . . 200 5 Executive Councillors 500 Clerk of the Council.. 200 I have without hesitation nssented to tho bill, being persua- ded that if the independence of the principal officers and Judges can be ensured it is most desirable to dispose of this question as soon as possible, in a manner that will give satisfaction generally ia the Province. Your Lordship will perceive from the enclosed copies of my communications to the Asseini. v, that it was left entirely to them to adopt tlie arrangement whicii might appear best suited to y i I 14 thu interests of the Previnro, tjs to tlie duration of the grant itt liL'U of the revenue proposed to be ridinquished. I however tiiink that much inconvenience would have arisen had the sum been granted for a limited prriod. A eopy of ihc bill parsed for the grant is enclost d. I have &c. (Signed) TheRi;:htHoii'j:G Lord Viscoiint Gouericii, ^c. &,c. &:c. J. C'OLBORNE. (Copy.) Dotcnirfg Street, > 28d May, 1831. / No. 26. Siu, I have received and laid before the King your despatch of the 21st March last, No. 8, announcing lliat you ha^l assented to a bill for settling <.he civil list of the Province of Upper Canada; and I have the satisfaciion of ai^^suring you, iliat His Majesty en- tirely approves of your conduct upon that occasion. It is certainly to ho rogreited that the Assembly did not think proper to grant a civil list to the full extent, wliicli you Imd been instructed to ask ; but as the piovision, »vbich they have made limited as it is, is nevertheless permanent instead of temporar}', and as the arrangement has been mjide wiihout bringing into in- convenient discussion the question of the casual revenue, I cannot but flatter myself t! •.:t iiie result will prove advantageous to the Province, and tend to maintain due harmony and good understan- ding between the differfut branches of the Legislature. The bill which had been introduced into Parliament at the commencement of the late session had not been passed into a law before the dissolution took place. His Majesty's formalas- sent to the Provincial Act cannot tlicrefore be immediately given ; but as soon as the new Parliament meets the bill will be intro- duced. I think you acted with sound discretion In so far departing from your instructions as not to include the Fee Fund amongst the revenues tc be given up to the Legislature. It is very doubt- ful whether that additional concession would have induced tha Assembly to make a larger grant, and you would in that case not have had at your command adequate means for meeting those charges which the Assembly declined to include in the Civil List, and w hich they probably would not be disposed to provide for by annual votes. I trust however, that the addition of the Fee Fund to the other resources at your disposal w ill relieve you from all difficulty on that score. 3ut as Uiat addition will not be equal to the additional chrr- 15 Its to be provided, it will be necessaijr to make a distribution of the Casual Revenue diflerout in some degree from that contained ia my despatch of the 24th December last, No. 2. The Casual Revenue mav now be estimated as follows : Canada Company, ". £ 16,000 Lands and Timber 5,000 Incidental, 1,000 Fee Fuid, 1,5 00 £ iJ;i,5()0 Deduct charge of collodion, 2,000 To'al, £r2Tr500 0~0 It may safely bear ilio followi'iir cbarj^os : Lieutenant Governor to complete !;;s sala- ry to £3000, £> 1,000 Retired Judges, 2,700 ■Compensation in lisii of Fees, 2,566 iRoyal Grammar School, 500 'Untversity 1,000 Protestant Clergy (in lieu of t*arliamonia- ry Grant,) 3,000 •Presbyterian Clergy, 1,000 Roman Catholic Bishop, 500 do CWrgy, 1,000 'Pensions (supposed to be about,) 1,700 Surveyor General, 300 Emigration, 5,000 Total, £ 20,266 Ijeaving a reserved balance of rather more than £1,200 which would be liable to increase as proportionate as the floating char- fes, such as pensions, retired allowances, and compensations for fees may fall in. This distribution m,ay however, be liable to change before the Civil List Act comes into operation, and if you have any sug- •gestion to offer as to the proposed application of the casual reve- nue, I shall be glad to receive them, at as early a period as may •be convenient. I have, &c. (Signed) GODERICH, M. General Sir /. Colborne, K. C. B. Jke, &c. &c. m '4 M No. 42. Downing Street, > 30th Sept. 1831. f With reference to ray despatch of the 23rd May last, No. 26, I have the iionor to transmit to you an Act of Parlia* Copy, 'i ' Sir, 16 mont parsed in the present Session to amend the statute 14 Geo* 8, oil. 88, which places at tlio disposal of the Legislature of Up- per Capadti the revynues of tliat I'rovice arising from the statute of Goo. 3. The Act having heon passed on the 22nd instant, it has not been practicable since that timo to issiio the necosenry order of ki'ia Majesty in Council for confirnnng the Provincial Statute of the first year of 1 1 i« Majesty's reign, c. 14. That order will, however, be issued by the earli-'sl possiI)le opportunity. Th« Provincial Act will, in the moan tir.io, liavo i:s opt-ration. I have, &,r. Major General, (^^'gned) GODERICH. Sir J, Colborne, K. C. 13. &c. &c. &c. J. COLCORNE, The Lieutenant Governor has the satisfactk>» to inform the House of Assembly, ihat the King places at thedis- poBHl of the Provincial Legislature, all His Majesty's interest ia the duties which are collected under the British Statute of the J4th George 3rd, chap. 88, and which have hitherto been applied to the support of tho civil government, by warrants of the Lords Commissioners of iho Treasury. His Maj sty in cuncedin'^ the complete disposal of this in- creasing iOV<'nue, has naturally, tho confident expectation that>80 great a proof of his anxiou-; desire to cousidt the wislies of his faith- ful and loyal subjects in Upper Canadii, will be met with a reci- procal feeling by their representatives. The Lieutenant Governor is therefore instructed to acquaint the House that His Majesty's Government trusts that the Legis- lature will think it indispensable that provision should be imme^' diately made for the salaries of tho Lieutenant Governor, thflr Judges, and principal officers of the Government, and for such eX*-' ponses of the civil government, and adtuinistration of justice as may appear, upon examination of the estimates in possesftibii' of the House, to require more permmewt arrangement thatt tht^ supplies trhicH are granted by annual vote. The sum of eight thousand poonds is deemed stifficleirt' Iff His Mlijesty*s Government for this important object, exclusive of the sum granted permanently by a Provincial Act, to'wardsf thtf* maintEnance of the civil governmertt. The revenue to be ceded cannot becalculated at less than eleven thousand five hundred pounds sterling, and it will be higlily gratifying to the Lieutenant Governor to concur in any:' measure that may accelerate the final arrangements proposed by His Majesty's Government, to give effect to His Majesty *s gracious 'intention^, and to tbo^ecision of the British Parlia- n*€>nt, wheu ths Lords of the Treasury may b© released froifc 17 their obligation of appropriating in future tha duties refurreJ to in this communication. Government House, 2Qth February, 1831. Tuesday, 1st March, 1831. J. COLBORNE, The Lieutenant Governor, with reference to his communication of yesterday, transmits for the information of the House of Assembly estimates of the expenses of the Civil Govern- ment. Oovemment House, Ist March, 1831. Estimate of Expenses requiring a more permanent arrangement than an annual vote. Salary of the Lieutenant Governor, J udges, Attorney General, Solicitor General, Secretary of the Province, Retired Judges, Contingent and Miscellaneous, . . . Sterling £ Estimate of Expeitses of the Civil Government con- tinued. Speaker of the Legislative Council, Five Executive Councillors, Receiver General, Surveyor General, Clerk of the Executive Council, Clerk of the Crown and Pleas, £ s. d 3000 3300 300 100 300 2700 800 10500 PUBLIC OFFICES. Government Office^ 360 500 200 300 ^ 200 100 Secretary's salary, £182 10 Three Clerks........ 5.50 732 10 Executive Council Office, j Two Clerks I 332 10 Secretary and Registrar's Office, j One Clerk or Deputy Secretary,. ,. I 150 Receiver General's Office, Two Clerks, 332 10 Surveyor CeneraVs Office, I Draftsman and four Clerks, | 726 5 7^ Inspector General's Office, Two Clerks Contingent expenses of the Public Offices, Contingent expenses of the Administration of Justice, 332 10 1500 1800 Sterling £ i 7.^66 5 Tj 18 Wednesday, 7il« March, 1831. Agroojibly to tlie order of the day, the House went into committee of the whole on the message of His Excellency, the Lieiiienunt Governor, relative to the duties under 14th (joo. 3d and estimate for supi)ort of the civil government. Mr. Elliott was called to the chair. The House resumed. Mr. Elliott reported that the committee had agreed to a re- solution which he was directed to submit P,i- the adoption of the House. The report was received, and the resolution was adopttd ncm. r.on. as follows : llesotvid — Thiit an humble address be presented to His Excel- lency, the Lieuteinut Governor, retjuestinp; His Excellency to lay before this Houac, for its information, any despatches from His Ma- jest^i's Government Uj)on which Mis Excellency may have founded his messages to tliis House, of the 28ih February and 1st March, also a full and particular account of the casual and territorial reve- nue for the last twelve months. Present — Messieurs Atiomcy General, Bcardsley, Bcrczy, Bidioell, Boidtnn, Brown, Buell, BurwcU, Campbell^ Chishalm, Clark, Cook, J, Crooks, W. Crooks, Dun- comhc, Elliott, A, Frascr, Iloioard, Ingeisol, Jarvis, Ketclnim, McCall, D. Macdouald, Mackenzie, McMar- tin, Maqon, Morris, Mount, Perry, Randal, Robinson, Rublin, Samson, Shaver, Solicitor General, Thomson, Vankoughnet, ^Vh^tc, and J. Willson. Mr. Mackenzie, seconded by Mr. D. Macdonald, moves, that Messrs. Kotchum and Shaver be a committee to draft and report an address to His Excellency, pursuant to the resolution on Revenue. — Ordered. The draft was presented and read twice. Thursday, 8th March, 1831. The address to His Excellency, the Lieutenant Governor, on the subject of the Revenue, &c. was read the third time and passed. To His Excellency Sir John Colhorne, Knight Commander of the Most Honorable Military Order of the Bathf Lieutenant Governor of the Province of Upper Cana- da, Major General Commanding His Majesty's For- ces therein, Sfc. S^c. &fc. May it please Your Excellency: We, His Majesty's dutiful and loyal subjects, the Commons of Upper Canada in Provincial rarliamontassembleJ, humbly request your Excellency to lay before this House, for its information, any despatches from iiis Majesty's Government, upon Vi'hich your Ex- cellency may have fonndtd your messages to this House of the 28th February, ultimo, aud 1st March, instant, on Revenue-— ' 19 lull aiiu p'drticui.it account of the loceipts a' cxpenditiiio of (li« Casual aud Turritoiiul Uevuiiue tor the last tvvelvu luuiiths. AKCIllBALD McLean, Commons' House of Asseni- I Speuker. h\y, March 8th, 1631. Wednesday, 9th March, ISlU. The comnuttoe appt)inlcd to wail upon His Excellorxy with the address on revenue, &.c. reported the following answer : Gentlemen : Ahhongh I do not feel myself autliorised to transmit to the Housn of Assembly, the dcspatclu'S whicli are applied for in this address, I am fully prepared to allurd the House any information in my pownr connected with the subject which I have been directed by His Majesty's Government to bring forward. I will direct the account of the casual and territorial revenue to be laid before the Hou&e. The House was put into committee of the whole on the message from His Excellency the Lieutenant Governor on crown revenue and salaries. Mr. Elliott was called to tho chair. The House resumed. Mr. Elliott reported progress and asked leave to sit again to-morrow. Thursday, l^th March, 1831. The House went into committee of the whole on the mes- sage of His Excellency the Lieutenant Governor, on the subject of tho revenue under 14 Geo. 3rd, and estimate for support of the civil government. Mr. Elliott was called to the chair. The House resumed. Mr. Elliott reported that the committee had agreed to two resolutions, which he was requested to submit for the adoption of the House. The report was received. The first resolution was then put and carried as follows : Resolved — That the revenues arising under an Act passed in the 14tli year of His late Majesty King George the Third, entitled •• An Act to establish a fund towards further defraymg the charges of the administration of justice and the support of the civil govern- ment within the Province of Quebec, in America" — and heretofore appropriated by the Lords Commissioners of His Majesty's Treasu- ry, together with the sum of two thousand five hundred pounds gran- ted annually to His said late Majesty, King George the Third, his heirs and successors towards defraying the expenses of the adminis- 20 tratiOD of the civil goTernmeDt or this ProTiot*, amount to aigbtaos tbouaand fiva huodred pouuda, and upwarda. The second resolution was then put as follows : Reaolved — That so soon as the revenues arising from and under the said Act passed in the I4th year of His late Majesty George 3rd shall, by Act of the Imperial Parliament, or otherwise, be placed at the control of the Legislature of this Province, it will be cxpcdieol to repeal the Act passed fifth Session of the sixth Parliament of this Province granting to His iMajesty the said sum of two thousand five hundred pounds, and in lieu of the said sum of two thousand five hundred pounds, and the revenues accruing under the said Act pas- Red in the said Hth year of His said late Majesty's reign, to grant to His Majesty the annual sum of £ and to his heirs and succes- sors for defraying the folluwing charges of the administration of the civil government of this Province, that is to say : The salary of the Lieutenant Governor, JG2000 The salaries of the Judges of His Majesty's Court ©f King's Bench 3300 The salary ef the Attorney General, 300 The salary of the Solicitor General 200 The salary of the Clerk of the Executive Coun- cil 200 The salaries of five Executive Councillors, 500 On which the House divided, and the yeas and naya were taken as follows : YEAS— Messieurs,"; Att'y General, J. Crooks, Jessup, Morris, Berczy, W. Crooks, Jones, Robinson, Boulton, Elliott, Lewis, Samson, Burwell, A. Eraser, McMartin, Sol. General, Chisholm, Ingersoll, Macnab, Vankoughnett, Clark, Jarvis, Mafion, War»en— 84. NAYS— Messieurs, Beardsley, Cook, McCall, Randal, Bidwell, Howard, D. Macdonald, Roblin, Buell, Ketchum, Mackenzie, Shaver, Campbell, Lyons, Perry, White— 16. Question carried — majority 8— and the resolution wb» adopted. A bill founded on the resolution was ordered to be drafted — the draft was reported and read the first time. Mr. Morris, seconded by Mr. Chisholm, moves that it be— Resolved— Thht it is expedient to address His Majesty thanking him for the gracious attention which he has been pleased to beatow on matters of important interest to his faithful subjects of this Province, and informing Hie Majesty that the House of Assembly in makmg per- manent provision for the support of certain officers of the Government, especially that for the respectable maintenance of the Judges, nave 31 don* 10 with a cordml duHire to tnuct liiu wiohee of lli« MajiBty'M Gov* erntntnt, by plac*iii(; thti adminiitration of juiticc bryotid t) g rwi9, Robinson, Berczy, ' Elliott, I). McDonald, Samson, Boulton, A. Fraser, McMartin, Sol. General, Barweli, Ingersoll, Macnab, Vankoughnet, Chisholm, Jdrvis, Magon, Warren, J. Crooks, Jones, Morris, J.Willson— 24 (Question lost, majority S, Oij the question for passing the bill, the yeas and nayi wera taken as follows : YEAS — MEssiEuas, Att'y General, W. Crooks, Lewis, Samson, Berczy, Elliott, McMartin, Sol. General, Boulton, A. Eraser, Macnab, Vankoughn«t, Burwell, Ingevsoi, MagoM, Warren, Chisholm, Jarvis, Morris, J. Willson, Clark, Jessup, Robinson, W. Wi.ion— 26 J. Crooki, Jones, NAYS- -Messievrs, t Beardslej, Cook, McCall, Randal, Bidwell, Howard, D. McDonald, Roblin, Buell, Ketchum, Mackenzie, Shaver, Campbell, Lyons, Perry. White— 16. Question carried, majority ten, and the bill was signed. Saturday^ \2th March, 1831. Agreeably to the order of the day, the address to His Ma- jesty on the subject of the revenue arising to this Province un- der the 14th Geo. 3d. and the independency of the Judges, was read a second time, and referred to the committee of the whole House. ■. ■ . -t-. i.- ;i-5'> ^■.. ^ I 2& Mr. Macnab was called to the chair. , The House resumed. Mr. Macuab reported the address as amended. The report was received, and the address was ordered to be, engrossed and read a third time on Monday next. Jf ondai/, I4th March, iSiii. ' Agreeably to the order of the day, the address to His Ma- jesty on the subject of the independency of the Judges, was read a third tinfie. Mr. Perry, seconded b/ Mr. Simver, moves in arniindnrent, that the following words be added to the address, '* and that your Majesty will also be pleased to take the necessary steps for ex- cluding the Judges from seats in the Legislative Council in this Province.*' On which the House divided, and the yeas and nays were taken as follows : 'T YEAS— xMkssieurs.' Beardslcy, Bidwell, Clark, Howard, BauUon, Burwell, Chisholm, J. Crooks, W. Crooks, Kctchum, Lyons, D. McDonald. Mackenzie, Perry, Randal, NAYS — Messikors. Elliott, A. Eraser, Ingersoll, Jarvis, Jessup, Macnab, Magon, Morris, IlobiL Rublin, 8haver, White,— la. Samson, Sol. General, Warren, J. Willson— 18. Question lost, majority 5. . , . r. t^, The address was then passed nem. con. and signed by tha Speftker* as follows : To th,e King* i Most Excellent Majesty i Most G|-aciQus Sovereign : - Wo, Your Majesty's most dutiful and loyal sub- jects, the Commons of Upper Canada in Provincial Parliament assambljed, mo^t humbly approach Your Majesty to thank Your Majesty, for th^ graciuus attention which you have been please4 to bestow on matters of important intf rest to your faithlful sub- jects of this Provinee, and we take this occasion to inform Your Majesty that in making permanent provision for the support of certain Ofl&cers of the Government, especially that for the re- m 586 ^- •pectabitt maintenance of the Judges, we have been guided by at cordial desire to meet tlie wishes of your Majesty's Government by placing the administration of justice beyond the reach of po- pular influence ; and we respectfully acquaint your Majesty that in passing a bill to secure the independence of the Judges, we have been actuated by a confident hope that your Majesty will not hesitate to place these officers in a situation which will also render them independent of the Crown, and to that end we im- plore your Majesty to allow the Judges of this Province to hold their oflice during good behaviour, subject nevertheless to be re- moved upon the address of both houses of the Provincial Legis- lature. ARCHIBALD McLEAN, Speaker. Commons Mouse of Assembly ^ • 14th March, 1831. ) Prkse-vt — Messie^is Attorney General, Beardsley, Bidwell, Eoul- ton, Burwell, Chisholm, Clark, James Crooks, William Crooks, DuHcomhe. Elliott, A. Fraser, Howard, Ingersoll, Jarvis^Jea- Mup, Ketchum, Lyona, D. McDonald, Mackenzie, Macnab, Maijon, Morris, Perry, Randal, Kobmson, Reblin, Samson, Shaver, Solicilor General, Warren, White and John Wilhon. Mr. Morris, seconded by Mr. Burwell, moves that the ad- dresH to His Majesty respecting the independency of the Judges be transmitted to the Honorable the Legislative Council with a request that that Honorable House will be pleased to concur therein^ . . - Tuesday^ 15th March. 183 L Tlie Master-in-Chancery brought down from the Honorable the Legislative Council a message which was read as follows : Me. Speaker, The Legislative Council request a conference with the Commons House of Assembly on the subject matter of the address to His Majesty transmitted to this House for their concurrence yesterday by message, respecting the indeprndence of the Judges, and have appointed thj Honorable Messrs. Dick- son and Wells to manage the same on the part of the Legisla- tive Councilj who will be ready to meet a committee on the part of the Commons House of Assembly, presently, for that pur- pose, in the joint committee room. JOHN B. ROBINSON, Speaker. ' Legislative Council Chamber, 15th day of March ^namber, > , 1831. ] 21 Messrs. Samson, Solicitor General, D. McDonald, and J. Crooks were appointed conferees on the pa^t of this Mouse, for the above purpose. Mr. Solicitor General, from the select committee of confer- ence, with the Honorable the Legislat've Couneil, on the subject of an address to His Majesty on the independency of the Judges, reported a series of resolutions which were read as follows : Resolved — That it appears to the Legislative Council, that in consequence of the representations which have proceeded from this Province, and from Lower Canada, the attention of His Majes- ty's Government and of the Imperial Parliament, has already been particularly applied to the proposition of making such a change in the terms of the commissions to the Judges, that it shall not be in the power of His Majesty to remove them unless upon an address of both Houses of the provincial Legislature. Resolved — That a consideration of the proposed change seem* to have resulted in the conviction, that it is not expedient at present, which opinion the Legislative Council, from a recollection of past occurrences, are disabled from controverting. Resolved — That if the Legislative Council did coasidera change expedient, they would deem it just and prudent to provide that a Judge should not be finally removed from office by any authority in this Province, without allowing to him the power of appealing to the tribunal of the King and Privy Council. Resolved — That as His Majesty cannot entertain this question with any other view than to render the administration of justice pure and satisfactory,tho Legislative Council relies with confidence upon tho wiodom of His Majesty, and upon his gracious disposition to consult the peace and welliire of this Province by allowing the appointment of the Judges to rest upon sucli a footing as may be found by experience to be most conducive to that end. Resolved — That entertaining this reliance, the Legislative Council are of opinion they ought to forbear to urge upon His Majesty any par- ticular change in the commission of the Judges, being persuaded so long as His Majesty's Judges preserve a proper regard to the duiien of their high office, they are in fact perfectly independent and that if it is thought necessary to afford any additional security in that respect, the very liberal conduct of the Legislature in providing for them respect- able and permanent salaries, in the manner now proposed, cannot fail to induce His Majesty to adopt any proper measure for that parpose. 15th March, 183L F.>fiBKI