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DxrxtxK ab'soxo*. 189a :^'h ■■ k*^ II I I ■ I II ' ■N^ WSM] pi, ^^ ^ m THIS SPEECH IS INSikli;i:i) -Id THE RIGHT HON. SIR JOHN A. iMACDONALD, G.C.B., WHOSE MODKRATION AND Jl'DCMEN T, Nfil' I.l'.S.S THAN ins (IRKAT AIULITV, HAVF. ENTHRONKl) IIIM IN TIIK CONFIDENCE OF THK ri:oi'Li': of canada. '% ^-^^^ The Jesuits' Estate Act. UNWORTHY METHODS OF AGITATION THOROUGHLY EXPOSED. ifll.I.f.M?IEl.F. la the course of the debate on Mr. Charl- ton's motion, in the House of Con'mons of Canada, April :iOth, 18U0, Mr. Davinsaid : I do not intend to occupy the time of the House at any length, but there is an aspect of this question to which, with great diffidence, I would crave the attention of hon. members. The hon. member for North Norfolk has given us a reason why he has once again wantonly thrown this apple of discord on the table of the House, and his reason is the taunts of people outside these doors. Why< is it to be supposed, for one moment, that any hon. member in the exercise of his duties in this House is to listen to every (jolx tnourlu outside these doors, and direct his course according to what any gabler at a street corner may say ? In considering this resolution, I hold it is impossible to take the view of the hon. member for West Durham (Mr. Blake), that it is a very innocuous resolution which hardly amounts to a censure of the Government. He seemed to think that it was a very mild affair, but to my mind, looking at the wording of the resolution, there is over it the taint of hyproorisy, and, if my hon. friend the mem- ber for North Norfolk (Mr. Charlton) did not oftrry on his brow the stamp of in- genuousnes, I could not fail to conclude that he also was tainted with hyprocrisy. He tells us that the reason why he brought forward this resolution is the dissatisfaction which has been excited in the public mind. Who has excited the dissatisfaction in the public mind, and in what manner has it been stimulated ? (Hear, hear.) It is a bad thing to have the public mind excited, especially if it is excited on the basis of senseless passions, but it is still worse when the stimulants applied to it are ignorant and perhaps malicions. I will call the Attention of the House for a moment to the position taken by the hon. member for North Norfolk (Mr. Charlton), ad place before you MK. CHAKLTON's illSTOBV. He appeared before us to-day as a historian. He quoted a pamphlet written by Mr. Hughes, and asked us why were the Jesuits expellea from France in 1804, from ^aples in 1810, from Belgium in IHIS, from Russia in 1820, from Spain in 18'2I>, from France in 1845, from Bavaria in 184S, from Naples in 1848, from the Papal States in 1848, from the Austrian Empire in 1848, from Galicia in 1848, from Sicily in 1848, from Paraguay in 1848, from the Italian States in 1859, and from Sicily in 18G0'' Nothing is more in- Btru3tive than to bring the illumination of history to bear on the events of the present time. I remember that Lord Bolingbroke says that if a man desires to be a good statesman, he should give his days and nifrhts to the study of history. The great Arnold of Rut^by says that a man who aspires to guide the destinies of his country or even be useful in her councils should be a careful student of history ; and, reading the other day some statements in regard to Bis- marck, I learned that that great man, one of the greatest men who ever appeared on the staee of time, has found his favourite study in history. Thus we need not be surprised that ac^hon. gentleman who hopes to take a high position, who aspires to put his hand upon the rudde**, and, per- haps, to guide the Ship of State, like my hon. friend (Mr. Charlton), appears also in the light of an historian. But those great men, my Lord Bolingbroke and i)r. Arnold, say that the way to make history useful is to find out the crises in history which would correspond with the crisis in your own ooun- try,andthat youmustnote the measures which were suoceasful at a given time and under given circumBtancei, and.if the oiroumitanoea in your own country are like, you have a les- son by which to be (guided. But how does the hon. gentleman deal out history to us ? He tiings us barren dates. I might ask him afew ({iiestions about iiisdates. Doesheknow —and I will pause for a reply — does he know the ciroumstanoes existing at the time in any one of these countries fro.n which the Jesuits were expelled ? I will ask the attention of the hon. member for North Norfolk (Mr. Charlton), if he can tear himself away from the dulcet tones of the hon. member for North Victoria (Mr. Harron). He has men- tioned to us the oases of about a dozen coun- tries whence the Jesutis were expelled. Does he know the conditions under which they were expelled ? Does he know whether, where there was an insurrection, it was the insurrectionary (jovernnient or the Govern- ment which the people rose against that ex- pelled them ? Has he examined the (question ? Does he know anything about it ? (Cheers.) I have no objection to sit down for a mo- ment if the hon. member will tell us the circumstances. Mr. Charlton — Will the hor gentleman be kind enough to explain to u .le circum- stances under which they were expelled ? I venture to say th*t the hon, ;;entleman knows nothing about the matter himself. (Derisive laughter.) Mr. Davin — That would not be any answer. I did not bring forward these cases. 1 may be a very ignorant person, and I would be willing to learn from a superior man such as mv hon. friend -. but I will go over the circumstances, and I will say that it is very extraordinary that, in many of these cases set out in this pamphlet the Jesuits were dxpelled for meddling with suoh tyrants as have rarely existed in the history of the human race. Mr. Charlton — What particular cases ? Mr. Davin — I think the hon. e;cntleman might keep quiet after he has declined to give the house the information I asked for. I will, with the sufferance of the House, go over the cases referred to by him for his information, and it may not be uninter- esting. He says the Jesuits were expelled from France in 1804. By whom were they expelled ? Does the hon. gentleman know v They were expelled by Napoleon, who had destroyed the liberties of France, and who was at that time the Apollyon of Europe. A year before he had wantonly declared war against England, and, if the Jesuits were his enemies and were expelled by and were opposed to him, with whom were they assojiuted ? They wore auociated with some of the best men the world ever saw; they wore assooiated with the C/'onnaught Rangers, who came from the North of Ireland; they were as- sociate i with the sons and the fathers of Orangemen who went into battle to the tune of the "Protestant Boys." (Cheers.) So, if the Jesuits were expelled from France, they were in company with those whom my hon friend, in his zeal for Protestantism, iu his desire to destroy everything which IS not in accord with his own cult, has associated himself with, and therefore he should not be angry with those Jesuits whom the enemy of the younger Pitt, of Madame de Stael, of what- ever was free in Europe, or independent in France, expelled. In ISIU the Jesuits were expelled from Naples. Does the hon. gentleman know who expelled the Jesuits from Naples in 1810 ? They were expelled by a usurper. They were expelled by Murat, and it was very natural, if they were Neapolitans, that they, and many others with them, should show themselves hostile to the (government, and for reasons which, if the hon. gentleman enquired into them, he might approve. He speaks of their having been expelled from Naples in 1848. But who was on the throne at the time? It was Ferdinand, a tyrant so base and so cruel that even misfortune could not sott«n his disposi- tion. Does the hon. gentleman know, in his zeal against the Jesuits, that he is drawing himself shoulder to shoulder with King Bomba? (Laughter.) I thbk henceforth we must call him the King Bomba of t^is House. 8ir John A. Maodonald— The King Bom- bast. (Laughter and cheers.) Mr. Davin— The hon. gentleman shows us that he has an epic knowledge of history, and therefore he mudt be aware that the state of the people in the prisons of Naples at that time wrung tears from all Europe. In that very year he butchered his own people in the streets of Naples, and that city, surrounded by all that is beautiful in sky, and sea, and air, he made— to use the language of an historian of Italy— a very earthly hell by his crimes against liberty and toleration, aye— and against Protes- tants as well as Jesuits. In 1820, who ruled in Russia ?— because he tells us that in 1820 the Jesuits were ex- pelled from Russia. I think they must havs done something dreadfully wrong. Had Alexander I. good reasons for sending the I e if y rn Dd ry (he at- ent the lea. lied rere tiled fchey lany ilvea MonB iiired Ue )elled was was Ithat ■posl- inhia awing King leforth ol t>iiB Bom- lowa ua iry, and state of at that la that leople in i that itiful in uae the -a very liberty Protea- m, who tella ua irere ex- hey muat roD({. Had nding the noblea and burghera into exile in Siberia ? it the JeBuita were expelled iu l!S'20 troiii KuBaia, they were expelled in tho company of the nobloit men liiat uvur KuuBia pro- duced. Then the hon, ){outlcinan coiiiob to Upain, in IS'iU. My hon. friend's bouI ia stirred that the ilesuits were ex- pelled from Spain in IH2(i. Tho fact that they were expelled proves, ot course, that Ferdinand VII. had good reason to expel them '.' They must have done some- thing very wron^'. The despotism of Ferdi- nand V'll. beceme a by-word. Liberals were executed for the profession of LiberaliBm, so that my hon. friend, if he had been there- he ia a largo-aouled Liberal, though I somo- timea think when I hear him ari^ue that I could tind a very Bmall hazel nut in which his aoul would find intinite room to wubble(Uu&;h ter) — well, if he had been there he might have won the glory of martyrdom. The liible waa proscribed by Ferdinand VII. — my hon. friend professes to love the Bible — so that if the Jesuits were proscribed they were pros- cribed in company with the Bible. To road It waa dangerous, to preach it was death, and the Jesuits were happy in being only expelled and not slaughtered. Then take the Papal States. It is a curious thing, it shows what charming inconsistencies there are in human nature — the fact that the Papal States expelled the Jesuits seems to him a terrible thing against them. He sees red at the introduction of the name of the Pope in the curious introduction to this bill in a way which has often led me to say to Orangemen who have spoken to me about it, that if I were the Pontiff of his church and Mercior had entrapped me .nto the position he has entrapped the Pope in the preliminaries leading up to this liill, I would have excommunicated him for all time to come— (laughter and oheera)— because he has ^ot the Pope into thia bill not even with the dignity of an arbiter ; he is brought in as a mere seal to uuard Mr. Mercier against any after-clap, and in effect to enable him to secure that his bill should close this vexed nuestion. My hon. friend sees red at the sight of the word "Pope." Pope disagrees with him. I notice that he is not at best a very ruddy gentle- man, but if the word " Pope " is frequently mentioned in thia Houae, I notice that a greener pallor apreada aoroaa that brow, (Laughter.) In IMH there waa an inaurreotion, and the Pope fled. The Jeaui Ji did notlike thia. What aort of men would they be if they did like it : They were merob«ra ol hi* oburoh. Do you Buppose they would be worthy tho name of men at all if they had not lult disap- pointed, aud angty, aud ready to bu ag ^res- si vo, because the Pope had to II y ? fhat they wore expelled would not uucossarily imply much discredit on their part Then as to the Austrian Kmpire in 1K4S. Iu March of that year there was an insurrection in Vienna, and, if I remember rightly, in Milan, in Venice and Sardinia. In the sum- mer the Kmperor lied to Inspruck, and the Archduke John took charge. Will the hon. gentleman tell me now, whether the .Jesuits were expelled by the (jrovernment of the Em- peror, or by tho Archduke John, ur by the insurrectionary Government that was ulti- mately aet up ' Because, sir, if tho hon. <{entlemun has come here to-day and taken from a pamphlet these dateu and lluug them down on the table aud awked men who are representing Canada to draw the igno- rant inference that he drew from them, that because the Jesuits were expelled by these tyrannical Governments thoy must have done Bomething dreadfully wrong — if he has done that he is not worthy of attention at any futurs time in this Parliament. I do not like their methods, but let us be just. Now. he speaks of Galicia. In 184S the Jesuits were expelled from (ialicia. Well, I have a riffht to know which Galicia. (Cheers.) Will the hon. gentlemen tell me which Galicia? (Renewed Cheers.) Ue is like one of the dumb dogs of Jupiter that can- not bark. (Laughter.) There is a (ialicia in Spain, and there is a Galicia in i'oland. We will suppose, because it is much more likely, that he means Galicia in Poland. Who expelled them ? There was only one power that could expel them, in 1848, trom Poland, and that was the moiit tyrannical emperor that ever sat on the throne of St. Petersburg, the tyrant Nicholas. I wish he had not borne that name. (Laughter.) In Sardinia, in 184s, again they were expelled, Nov, why were they expelled from Sardinia in 1 SIS ? They might not have been very desirable guebts at that time, with their auda- city and intrigue, but where is the analogy between the condition of that country and ours? This waa a critical time for Sardinia. Cavour, one ot the greateat journaliats and atatea- men of Europe, had juat atarted the Revival newapaper. The King had juat granted a oonatitution and definitely eapouaed the cause of Italian regeneration against Auatria, and that great work waa oom- menoed which, acme yeara af terwarda, waa 6 to receive a glorious con«umniiitlon, whon, with the (i\vor(i for hit tali'tiiim mdliii'iriy tor ili'i upell-' ii'l. (til ih*l.li wrtB '.(> fihiist., liy tlie mere miigio of bin niimo, I'verythinK llittt (larkeiiml ocer the, prospto's of Itikly. ((Jheeni.) Now, what unuioKV wum theie between that ruvolution^ry titiitc of tiiini;:! and a coiiHiitutionuI country hucIi ms our', with lihertv «afe j,'uardi:il, Huch a country, I believe, for frtedom, as doeH not exiel any- wliere bIhc in tho worhl . U hat imaloKy in there bblwoeu diHturbed utates like thuae, aud a country like ihiH.' ^'et the hon, Kcutlenian comes here and IUu^m down hi;i barren dates. In iSliU, a<,'aiu, (iati- baldi expelled the JesuitB from Sicily, and why did he expel them ? He had made him- self dictator; he defeated the royal tiuops at CalalaKiiii; he el'jrmcd ralerino; he won Mt'la/./,o; he gave Si(.ily ii nnw tnustitutioii, and in Buch a state of thingii tlje tvpul'Jou of the Jeauila niuy have been a ntct.ssiLy. It might be necesHuiy under certain oiroun^- BtanceB, even to expel thuKniyiita ot Labour ; it mij^nt be neccsHary totxpclull vhi; l.iwy?r»; it might l)e ueiieseaiy to t^xpel an'* body of men in certain critical citcumstanceB oi the Stale, who were likely lu menace the object. that atatesmeu. having charee of it, had in view, Viut what an^dcgy can there be be- tween such a Bate of thing-i and the state of thing* in Canada V Now, we were lauuh ing a moment aaio, bur [ think it ia a great crime for a man occupying the hiirn posi- tion of member of Parliament to go throu^li the country, and, without ever eiKiuirius; into the circumstanceb in which thtse ex- pulsions took place, co hold events about which he knows nothing, up before the heated fancies of ignorant men — good-hearted nien, noble men in their way, but still not havinj,' eufflcient time t:.i test these things. He gotw and reade out that the Jesuiib were expelled here ; were expelled there ; thej were expelled elae- where, and he leads people to infer tiial they are a danger co every Statr, whatever its condition, aud that they ware always in the wrouE;, whereas in most cases they were expelled by despotic Governments. We know very well that in the history of the world there have been men who would exercise tyrannical power themselves, but would not allow anyone else to be tyrannical to the people: and the Jesuits, as the history of Europe shows, have, animated it may be by ecclesiastical iTiotivp", sometimes interfered on the side ot popular liberty against the tyraonieal con- duct of tyrnnnical men. Thoro are cases in which the .lesuitu have bneri expelled for no otui !■ ri'iiHon th;»n protesting' to the Kinf{ ai^.kiiist the nr i>er of his mintresaos. The hi n ^'.lulrmau (Mr. (Jhailton), I hope, does not mean tn deceive the people, liut I Nay, it ho knows what he is doing, that ho is '.;ui'ty of a vei y treat crime and very ;,'reat miHdeiiii.auor. (Cheer).) 1 will ask the House to bear with me few moments, because the hoii. gentleman raised the ((uostiou of Tiir iKsrrTs' kstatis act. The hon. gentleman iH a Protestant, an.'i I am a I'rutcMtant, and if the hon gentleman has a right, or thinks he lias a right, to sympithix.'j with tlie men wno are most alarmed by the cry of "Jesuit," it iMiel be remembered that I am an Iciah I'ciiescant. and hon geutlemou well know that Itishmen feel strongly on most subjocts, and especially on reliuion. If I had boen in Mercifsr's place I would have been glad to ha\'e made the arrangement he efTected. It WM a good arrangement. Here was a pro- poity on which a cloud was cast — a cloud which lowered its saleable value fifty percent. 1 know they hadno riuht to cast a cloud upon it. What did Mr. Mercier say ' 1 will read his words, beoauso they have not been read by the hon. gentleman from North Norfolk (Mr. Charlton), and have not been read by the hon. member for North Simcoe (Mr. Mc- Carthy), but I will read them to-night, and I aay I have reason in the interests of the people (.f Canada to complain that when this Act has been Haunted in the (jopular face, those parts of it that would have shown its true character have t)een kept back and only those parts thrust forward that were lAl.cri.ATKK Ti) I.Vt'l.AMK I'ASSKiN'S. We will suppose 1 meet an Orangeman in my conbtiiuency, who approaches me aud s^ys : "Weil, we did not think you would do that." "What have 1 done '! " I reply. "Voted for that Jesuit bill," he says, "Have you read the Act? " 1 ask. He re- plies, "No." I then say ; "If you would like to read it, sit down and we will read it together." I then indicate the various points aud show that a oloud had been cast on that property, aa Mr. Mercier says, in his letter dated Rome, 17th February, 188S. I start out by saying that the Jesuits had no right whatever to that property. But there were eminent persons capable of of casting a cloud on its title ; the Provinoe wants to sell it and to remove that oloud' Now, what would a practical man do, under the olrounntance, but aik hlmgell how to get rid of that oloud ? He would rot balance metaphyskal nioetieii an to right or wrons, and say the church han no real right to io act ; he would not evdn care about building,' up an itloa an to moral ii,!,'ht, but hp would endeavour to make the best, barf,'nln posBible In the In tereit of the province. Mr. Meniier ■aid to the church ; •• Tnke off iHIb cloud and I will ylve you ? 100,000.' The hon. member for North Norfolk (M^. Charlton) has stated on platform after plat form, and has stated in this House, and my hon. and learned friend from North Simcoe (Mr McCarthy), than whom there Is no one in Canada of whom I have a hicjher opinion, hai stated, and I do not know how I* ! happened that he has failed to see the matter as T see *t, that the Pope wa« brought into the transaccion a* a 8overolj»n prince. That is one of the charsres brought against the Act. Here is what Cardinal Simeoni says : '* The Pope allows the fJovernment to retain the proceeds of the sale of the Jesuit Estates as a special deposit to be disposjid of hereafter with the sanction of the Tfoly See." There is a condition. What would happen if he were a sovereign prince ? As a sovere gn prince he is ix ri 'irmini sovereign and controls. He lays down what he wants to be done. Look at Mr. Mercier's answer : " In the matter of the Jesuits' Katates.the Government respectfully objects to the con- dition imposed in the letter of Your Kniin- ence of the first of March instant, and can- not expect to succeed in the settlement of this delicate question unless permission is given to sell the property upon the condi- tions and in accordance with the exact terms of my letter of the 17th of February last." Why could he not expect to succeed ? Because the real sovereign power was in the Queen and Legislature of Quebec- Nothing could be more peremptory than the language of Mr. Mcrcier. Is that language you would address to a sovereign prince ? No. What happens ? Does the Tope say then : I will wave my crozior over you and you will disappear ? Does he put him under a ban and send him into nothingness ? Does he inflict pains and penalties as a sovereign prince might do ? Not at all He at once comes to Mr. Mercier's terms. We read;: I " The Pope allows the fJovernment to re- tain the proceedti of the sale of the Jesuits' PHtatP as a uprciii' depfslt to be dinposed of hPTPufter with the sanction of the Holy Sen. SniTir orators have made a point with respect • '< the word* "the sanftlon of the Holv Spc." I'.ut that languipe was necessary tor Mr. Mprcter'npurposp of olixlrethe thlrj torever, be('(vu'f> If *hn pmpertj- was ni>t disr^^'ed n with that sanction, how would Mr. TMeroier know that ftirthpr olniind would not be "ot T'P ? Tn thp IpttT iiddrPKSPd to 'he rev, tfpfftleman who was authorised to deal with him, Mr. Mercieroays : "That in consenting to treat with you respecting this property the Government- lint i iini rffiini'.inin/ rirl/ oh/li/n>iii)l." Could anything he more distinct ? He goes on to say in paragraph 7 : "That anv ogrepment made between you and tho riovernment of the province will be bimlins, only in so far as ic Hhall he ratified by the Pope and the Legislature of thj pro vince." Further, in paragraph S, it is stated : "That the amount of the compensation fixp.l shall remain in tho possession of the (Jovernment of the Province as a special depoqit, until the Pope has ratified the said settlement and made known his wishes re spectine the distribution of such amount in this country" The object of Mr. Mercier in insistine on the ratification of the Pope to the bargain is clear — nanicly— to close the matter for ever — by having the sanction of the highest, authority in the body with which he war dealing. There is not a word about the Pope being brought in to ratify legislation. W hether the bargain would be accepted or not was a thing for the Legislature subse- fjucntly to decide. And in paragraph fl : "Finally that the statute ratifying such agreement shall contain a clause enacting that when such settlement is arrived at the Protestant minority will receive a grant in proportion to its population in favour of its educational works." Mr. Mercier deal"! with a sovereign prince, who is at the head of an infallible church, who believes all Piotestants to be heretics, and yet one of tho conditions he lays down to this sovereign prince is that a certain sum shall be given to support the Protest- ants, the assisting of whom, must of course, be exceedingly wrong ! (Cheers.) The answer of the Rev. Mr. Turgeon emphasises this point. He aayt in regard to clanae 9 : "Ab this clause docB not touch the f|ue8- tlon in which I am intorested to treat with the Oovernmeni., T wish you would dispense with my replying thereto." (^ould anything more8tronf;lymark the almos' hieh handed manner in wliich Mr. Mercier dealt with this 'luostinn'.' Then Mr. Turpeon claims that two million dollars are due to the Jesuits; hut Mi. Mercier disposes of that at once, and says in Ins letter of the -Hh .lune, ISSS If you don't take the ?4(tO,()nn you will yet nothing. \fi forsooth he js dealiuL' with a man brought in as a 8ove»"eign prince ''hen, when we come to the Act what do we read : "Whereas it is expedient to put an end to the uneasiness which exists in this ])rovince' in connection with the tlesuits' Estates, by settling it in a definite manner : Therefore Her Majesty, by and with the consent of the Lecialature of <,>uebec, enacts as fol- lows : — " Tt is not the Pope whose name is brought in, but " Her Majesty by and with the consent of the fjegisliiture of (j)uebec, enacts,'' and in the sixth section of the bill we read : "The Lieutenant-(iovernor in (,'ouncil hereby is authorized to dispose, in the man- ner he deems most advantageous lo the pro- vince, of the whole of the property, movable and immovablo, interests and rii;ht3, gener- ally whatsoever of the province upon the said property known as the Jesuits Estates." There can be no