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'iMk ^m^ btfiiiiiMliMblM T8 39ca. INDBX. P»ge. Bribery of Yukon Officials 37 Diaraissal of the late Deputy Minister of the Interior 16 Government Investigation a farce ,, 4I Liquor Permits 28 Liquor Permits, Remarkable Permit granted by Mr. Sifton to his former partner, Mr, Philps.- 38 Ogilvio's Instructions 40 Postal Sei-vice in the Yukon District Demoralized 33 Royalty, Development of the Yukon Country stopped by the 36 Sifton's " Fishing Expedition '• in Manitoba 12 Sifton's Personal Liability of $500 paid to Mr. Howell by the Govern- ment . 12 ' Spoils System of the Department of the Interior.. 15 Timber Leases,* Were they Exploited for Party Purposes 35 Troops, No Necessity for sending to the Yukon 32 Wade, Charges against Mr. 16 Walsh, Charges AgaiQs^^^jdr...^.«#.-., ;«.<.. .(.*it/.^\> 4 Yukon Railway Sclv9i^*(1!ia({l(e|niia ^d IfifJii^'ViGohtract) 20 • ' * » • , •♦•••• 'i. .» ••• «• .***I« •• • * ♦J* ••• 15 41 28 SIR CHARLES TUPPER, Bart. 63315 ^^rarflffl|^»|ftw*»WB*!Pili mmm SIR CHARLES TUPPER'S SPEECH ON THK AMENDMENT TO THE ADDRESS The debate in the House of Commons on the Address to His Bzoellenoy in reply to the Speech ftrom the Throne assumed a less general character after the following amendment had been moved by Mr. B. F. Clarke, member for West Toronto : ** That this House deems it eicpedient to inform His Excellency that in view of the widespread charges of incapacity, miscon- duct and corruption in the.administration of publiolaffairs con- nected with the Yukon, it is the duty of the Government to appoint, without delay, an independent judicial conunission to make a thorough investiffation|into that subject and report the result." .The leader of the] Opposition, Sir Charles Tupper, Bart., ad- dressed the House on the Amendment on April 14th. He was received with great enthusiasm on rising, and was frequently applauded during the speech. He said : I am very sorry at this late period of the discission to be obliged to again address the House, as they very kindly listened to me at very con- siderable length on a former occasion. But the matter now under the consideration of the House is of so grave a character, and has assumed an importance of such a serious description, as to make it absolutely the duty of gentlemen to give the present position we occupy very careful and attentive consideration. It will not do for hon. gentlemen opposite to pooh-pooh this question. I tell them they cannot afford to do that. I tell them that they are standing in the presence of the great intelligent electorate of Canada, and the graver the charge, the more bound Siey are to" give it that consideration to which it is entitled. The charges are of a grave character — a most serious and grave character. Mr. LANDERKIN. Against the Opposition. Mr. SPEAKER. Order. Sir CHARLES TUPPER. And I would like to know whether the hon. gentleman who has just taken his seat takes the ground in this ICouse that, no matter what may be the misconduct of an individual in an oflBcial capacity, he must go unscathed, because you cannot deal with his conduct v/ithout reflecting on his private character. tr / \ i 1 Mr. SUTHEBLAND. Quite the contrary. I said I thought he ought to be punished. / ,sv . Sir CHAELES TUPPER. Private character I hold to be sacred, as much as any man in this House. I say that the man who uses his posi- tion as a member of this House to assail unnecessarily the private diar- acter of an individual, whether he is in or out of this House, commits, in my judgment, an impardonable offence. I do not hesitate to say that. On the other hana, I say that the man who will shrink — 1 do not care how high the position ; the higher the position, the greater the ne- cessity — the man who will shrink from discharging his duty to this House and to this country, in exposing wrong-doing in high places, is unworthy of a seat in this House. (Cheers.) The hon. member who has just taken his seat spoke of the* address of the hon. junior member for Pictou (Mr. Bell), though he did not undertake to answer a line or a word of that address, as an apology for the senior member for Pictou (Sir Charles Hibbert Tupper). No man will dare to say, I hope, in the presence of this intelligent assembly, that it was an apology. It was a vindication — ^a masterly vindication — of the right of every member of this Parliament to deal unflinchingly and in the most unqualified manner with the conduct of public officials, provided that conduct is of such a character as to bring disgrace and obloquy upon the country. I say, any hon. member of this House would fail in his duty, if under these circumstances he did not deal with it. So far as Major Walsh is concerned, I have no hesitation at all in saying that I listened with the greatest regret to the necessity that existed— and that necessity did exist— and was used by the senior member for Pictou for bringing that gentleman's private conduct before this House. What are the facts, Sir ? Is there any man of intelliegence, in this House or outside of it — any man who honours public character and public con- sistency, and the proper and efficient discharge of public duty— who will say that, if a man holding a high position, the executive of the Govern- ment of the country in a great district, forgets himself and disgraces tMt position it IS not the duty of every man who wants to see pubUc officials conduct themselves in a manner to entitle themselves to the respect of the country, to bring his conduct under ^^^n^^^'i'-T'^.T,*^^? ^""^"^ I listened to the great ^c^ ^^^ ^Jl' the hon. member for Centre Toronto (Mr. Ber- tram) made m this House last night. And, Sir T could ^lad fo^/!f^:r.*^5 '^ ?^* ^"^^^""^ ™ desemd-and'l wouS be wl^ -^l^ ?^- '^I^ deserved-he is the bitterest epemy of Maio? ™ friend'm.^^ P1*\' ?ri!^T*y ^^^^^ *^^ resolution moU by my of b«vW v^ .; ^^"^^^ hehmd me, yesterday, would afford that man of having his character completely vindicated. (Cheers ) ■ ' "^^"^ Mr. SUTHERLAND. If the hon. gentleman will allow me, there is a verv much better way If he will make the statement outside, he will soon have an opportunity of proving it , , «- *! iJ% ^^t^l''^? TUPPER The hon. gentleman had better be care- ful of such challenges as that. I can tell the hon. gentleman that I do not want to use my position m this House in the manner in which I could use it, if I were to respond to that challenffe. I sav the hon gentleman had better be careful. I would be glad to see Major Walsh fed. iiifS' itmm gUHg, __^^ loiight he ■acred, m 8 his poai- rate char- commits, ate to say 1 do not er the ne- :y to this places, is nber who r member a line or or Pictou pe, in the It was a lember of d manner of SQch a country, in his So far as ng that I -and that ^ictou for le. What House or iblic con- -who will J Govem- disgraces 30 public lemselves t under enco- Ber- could would be of Major sd by my fhat man , there is i, he will be care- hat I do which I the hon. »r Walsh It I vindicated ; but when a member of the House of Oommons of Canada received a visit from a ffentleman holding a high position in the capital of our Empire, in London, when a memoer of the House of Commons h received a visit from a gentleman who represented one of the largest banking and financial institutions in the city of London, and was told by that gentleman that he went to see the executive head of the Yukon, appointed by the Canadian Government, and that Major Walsh was so intoxicated that he did not know what he was doing Mr. DOMVILLE. That is not true. Sir CHARLES TUPPER. Silence. The hon. gentleman had better take care of himself. Mr. DOMVILLE. I can take care of myself, and you too. Sir CHARLES TUPPER. I do not think the hon. gentleman knows how to do it after a certain hour of the day. Mr. DOMVILLE. I might try anyhow. Sir CHARLES TUPPER. Does that hon. gentleman consider it a base slander to vilify a man's character by saying he is drunk ? Mr. DOMVILLE. Yes. Sir CHARLES TUPPER. Would he think that was a base shinder if uttered in reHpect of himself? (Lauj^hter.) Mr. DOMVILLE. I certainly would, but coming not from the hon. member who is now speaking. Some lion. MEMBERS. Hear, hear. Sir CHARLES TUPPER. I see that that retort obtains an em- phatic response from the hon. gentleman's associates, who, I am afraid, are many of them, responsible for the irresponsible condition in which that hon. gentleman exhibits himself to the House very often. Mr. DOMVILLE. I rise to a point of order. Mr. SPEAKER. I think the hon. gentleman will withdraw expres- sions of that kind reflecting on another hon. member. Sir CHARLES TUPPER. I am very sorry, Mr. Speaker, that the interruption of the hon. gentleman tempted me to forget what perhaps is due to the House. Mr. CASEY. I rise to a point of order. An hon. MEMBER. Oh, you do not know it. Mr. CASEY. I think I know a little more about it than the hon. gentleman who interrupts me. My point of order is this : The hon. gentleman who tias the floor mada a most gratuitous, uncalled for, and insulting remark about an hon. gentleman who had the audacity to in- terrupt him. The point of order I raise is that the hon. gentleman can- not go on without making an apology and withdrawing the statement. Mr. DOMVILLE. I ask for that. Mr. SPEAKER. I imderstand that the hon. leader of the Op- position was making his withdrawal. Some hon. MEMBERS. No. Mr. SPEAKER. I am sure that he will conclude with a frank with- drawal. Sir CHARLES TUPPER. I have no hesitation, Sir, in saying that I shall always bow to the Chair and conform to that rule of the House iMM ■>Jf which reouirei §m% Km. mei»b«7 to withdtrsw ftn; taprtMioa that may b« rtgftrdHd n vndttly atlea^i^* to lowthtr. B«t I hops I ahadl not b» mdvccd bv anj iiBMenyry iatcrrvptisn to iatgH tJMiA cuu. 1 think that hoDi jcvntlemes wovld b«>l coMolt, hi Ibt* prtMiit tan^iiMn of thingi^ th« iirterefti of the Home uid the interesti of the €l«iT«Bme]&t tnd ef the party nipporthiK the Gevenrraent in thia Houn-, if thtjr wvoid allov^ on a grave question «f thra kind, a member of thia Hoiim to frankly nnif fully state the opimons he hokli» with regavci to a very moraeatoua question. I was shout to say that when a member of thia House receiyet a viait^ U8 the Honior iiuiiiiboi' for Pictoii (Sir OliurloH Ifihbort Tapper ) did, from a gentleman holdii^ so high position as the representative of one of the largest banking institutions in Tjondon, as to induce Lord Strath- cona to give him a fetter of introduction to Major Watah — I say that when the senior member for Picton received a communication from m high a source, I hold that if Major Walsh be innocent, if there waa any mistake or misunderstanding — and I am; not goinig to say for a mommt that any man is to be held guilty of anything until his' guilt is proved — the member who received such communication is bound to hriaig it before the House. (Applanse.) The MINISTER OF TRADE AND COMMERCE (Sir Richard Cart- wright). I think that in making that statement, the hon. loader of the- Opposition ought to give the uame of the porcy. Sir CHARIJ'^S TUPPEK. There will not be much trouble in lion, gentlemen opposite finding out the name. Their own othcer and High Commissioner gaTe that gentlemaoi his introduction to Major Walsh, and that gentleman showed the letter of introduction to the senior member for I'ictoii, and said : When I took thait to Major Walsh from the High. Commissioner, Lord Stratbcona, I was turned out of his office, the man- was so drunk he did not know what he was doing. There may be some mistake, but no man in this TTouse could have better authority, and it became his duty to challenge the public conduct of any high official in this country acrainet whom such a charge is made^ from such a source. 1 regret most deeply that it is necessary to assail i-n any way the rep- utation of Maj Walsh ; but in view of the statement placed in the hands of the senior member for Pictotr by a gentlenmn occupying a prominent position in England — in London, New York and Canada — and of the charges involving the use by that offleer of public officials Hi a most imnroper manner, I say that those who deny to Major Walsh* the opportunity of vindicating himaell — as 1 assume, and hope he will,, if 8iK!h opportunity be given, be able to vindicate hiraaelf comipletely — are his worst enemies. His worst enemy is the man who takes the position in this House that it will not do to have Major Waldi's conduct examined except by a subordinate cflRckil ol this Govrmment, who de- pends upon it for his existence. That is the position I take. (Chews.) I want to draw the attention of the House to the mc+,ion now be- fore it, and I am very sorry to see that the hon. Miinister of the Interior (Mr. Sifton) is not in his place. I am not very much surprised to see the chair ol that hon. Minister vacant, hut I soy that a Mrnister of the Crown, whose condncl is challenged a» his is, iot he is the root of th^ w^hole offending in tim nuttier, he ia the man n>ipon«ible to this Eoase and this country for all these disgraceful scandals that are blackening the fair fame of Canada throughout three continents — North An*erica, Europe and the great island continent of Australasia — I say that the Minister who is responsible for the appointment of the men who hare brought Canada into that position should be in his place here. I wanted to address the House yesterday on this subject, but postponed doing so because I understood the hon. Minister was engaged in more important service for the Qovemment in another place, but I am now compelled to make in his absence the i in the most e same moved res but lighest n that nd de- gentle- dicated iiich he nits his nit this udieial ow him ite can- 3e dealt he hon. iirse, no f public )se they d to do, jrnment directly ling for iduct, is •e an in- d? It 1 enable or, as I to vindi- Canada , take it ration of an Can- to that the ap- j subject civilized hesitate liould be L Canada d relieve ;r which ard how, ently at- prepared o one of jmy into ober far Centre Toronto, though I did not say it, I felt that, so far as this (Jovem- ment and the party behind them in this TTouse are concerned, the Lord had delivered mine enemy into my hands. (Loud cheers.) I wonder if the attention of hon. gentlemen opposite has been drawn to the resolu- tion proposed by the hor. member for Centre Toronto. I wonder if they see the precipice upon which they are placed and the yawning gulf into which t^ey must f 11 at no distant day if they support this resolution. The Govemment Afraid to Have an Investigation Unless Con- ducted by One of its Own OfKoials. Here is what is said: — That all the words after " His Excellency the Governor General " In the amendment be left out, and the following words inserted Instead thereof: — " That we have observed with pleasure that on receipt of complaints against some of the officials in the Yukon district, His Excellency's Govern- ment took prompt action to enquire into the matter of such complaints by appointing Mr, William Ogllvie as a commissioner for that purpose. Having entire confidence in the integrity and ability of Mr. Ogrilvle, we are satisfied that his inquiry will be Impartial and thorough, and that it will place His Excellency's advisers in possession of all information necessary to enable them to do justice to all parties concerned." Who is Mr. Wm. Ogilvie ? Mr. Wm. Ogilvie is a gentleman with whom I have a slight personal acquaintance. All that I have ever seen of him, I do not hesitate to say, has led me to form a high opinion of him, and all that I have learned of him has confirmed me in that opinion. But, Sir, I would draw the attention of the House to the fact that how- ever well qualified he may be to discharge the duties — as he did dis- charge them with signal ability — of a surveyor in that remote country, I have yet to learn that he has qualifications that would enable him to carry out such a judicial investigation and make such a report as would command either the respect of this House or the confidence of this country. He had had a valuable training as a surveyor in the field, and he was a good surveyor. Mr. Fawcett was a good surveyor, but he lamentably failed as Gold Commissioner, as I will show the Hou^e before I sit down — and I may say that I have not a word of challenge to offer as to the character of Mr. Fawcett ; I believe on the contrary, Mr. Fawcett, as far as I am able to judge, ,has erred through want of ability to fill a position for which he was never intended and which he was unable to fill. And now to return to Mr. Ogilvie. Suppose you get a report, what value is it ? If it is to be of any value, if it is to be received throughout those countries where the fair name of Canada has been smirched by these charges with which the press of those countries have te med for over a year, I say :f it is to be of any value, it must be made by a proper tribunal. The first question is, who is Mr. Ogilvie ? Why, to say that the Minister of the Interior occupies such a position in this House imd this country that the Government of which he is a mem- ber cannot afford to have his cond-ct investigated by anybody but a rel- ative or connection of his own, and that man dependent upon the Go emraent for his daily subsistence, is, I say, a proposition that only requires to be stated to reveal its utter absurdity. (Cheers.) If the bitterest enemy of the Minister of the Interior, if the bitterest .enemy of this Government had asked them to do, that which would destroy them 10 in the estimation of the intelligent people of this country it would be jusi what they have done, appoint a man occupying such a dependent position that, however fair, however honest, however disposed to discharge his duty, he would be more or less than man, I do not reaitate to say so^ he would require to be more or less than man to discharge that duty faithfully if the result was to drive his principal, to drive his Minister out of his seat into private life — for I believe a judicial investigation into this matter would have that result, and I shall give the House some- reasons for arriving at that conclusion. Now, Sir, the hon. member for Centre Toronto (Mr. Bertram) ha» talked about unsupported charges damaging the country. It is not the unsupported charges that damage the country. The press of Canada^ of the United States, of Great Britain, of Prance, and of many other countries, as well as of the great islands of Australasia, have been full of these charges, and I say that to meet them you must have that which this amendment demands, or you are wasting your time, you are taking a course that will receive no justification at the hands of the intelligent people of Canada. The hon. member for Centre Toronto spoke of Mis» Shaw. My right hon. friend, I presume, knows that lady ; and I am sure chat if he does, he will say that the London "Times," that great organ of public opinion in the United I^ngdom, would not be likely to- select a person to send here, to send to Africa, to send to Australia, at great cost, and at great personal inconvenience to that lady, unless they were satisfied, not only of her high character for integrity, but of her keen intelligence, and her ability to put before the readers of that great journal sound, substantial and reliable information. It is utterly im- possible to discredit her statements. (Applause.) If you want a report that win challenge the accuracy of the statements to which she ha» committed herself, and which the London "Times" has endorsed, you must have an independent judicial tribunal able to sift evidence a& only legal men can sift evidence ; and when all the particulars are put before the country, the people will be satisfied and not before. |! ' Mr. Sifton's Denial an Insufficient Defence. The hon. member for Centre Toronto took great objection to the Tact that the word of the Minister of the Interior was not accepted. Well, Sir, it is not usual to accept the simple word, the simple declaration of any man, however high his position, and we cannot accept the simple word of the hon. gentleman, who is charged with incapacitv, and mis- conduct, and corruption, in regard to the administration of the territory of the Yukon. That was the charge. I say it would be asking toO' much of humar nature to ask that the word of any man should be accepted under those circumstances, and before I sit down I shall give him some reasons why this House is not prepared to accept the unsup- ported word of the Minister of the Interior. (Cheers.) Then the hon. member for Centre Toronto asks : How would you organize a bank ? Leo me ask him a question. If he were gofng to organize a bank to- morrow, dealing with the enormous gold resources of that great ter- ritory, the greatest gold country to be found on the face of the globe, would he put in a surveyor as general manager ? Would he select a horse dealer as an accountant ? (Laughter.) Would he go and hunt >e juBi )sition ge his »y so, t duty inister [gation e some m) ha» lot the ]!anada^ otliei: full of which taking elligcnt of Misa id I am it great ikely to- ralia, at ess they t of her at great erly im- a report she has sed, you dence as 5 are put » the fact . Well, .ration of le simple and mis- territory sking too hould be shall give le imsup- L the hon. a bank ? bank to- great ter- the globe, le select a and hunt 11 nip the captain of an old whaler, as the Minii^ter of Militia did, for the purpose of discharging lie duties of which h« had no more knowledge than this horse dealer in Manitoba, or this captain of a whaler, who, no doubt, had some experience of an arctic dimtite ? Would he put the administration of the bufiiness of his bank in scch hands ? If be did, I -am sure the shareholders and the directors would \ery soon call upon liim to answer for it, as the Minister of the Interior is called upon to answer for the manner in which he Las played witii, trifled with, and abused the interests that were placed r». his diarge, and the responfii- bilities that were cart upon him. (Cheers.) Then the hon, gentleman says that these offidale are entitled to know what the charges are. Hare the Government taken the best means of knowing what the charges are ? They propose that a man placed at the head of the administration of affains in the Yukon should call for witnesses to come forward, should eend out into the woods to men that are engaged under th? hardest possible conditions in earning their livelihood, and ask them to abandon their employment, to come in and to make hitter enemies of every man in whose hands they are, and who is able to dostroy and ruin tiiem. I say that is the position, and it is contrary to everything reasonable to suppose that men in that position, however deeply they may have felt their wrongs, should come forward without coimsel, without direction, and place themselves in antagonism to the parties who are placed over them. Sir, I do not think that is the way to find out what the cht»rges are. But I was very much amused with the hon. member for Centre Toronto (Mr. Bertram), who, I think, can hardly have been in this House for the past few days. He can hardly have heard the speech of the senior member for Pictou (Sir Charles Hibbert Tupper), when he says that he objects altogether to fishing expeditions. Sir, did that Hon. gentleman object, did the hon. member for North Wellington (Mr. McMullen), object to fishing expeditions when it was proved up to the hilt, proved under oath in the Committee of Public Accounts last year, and stated on the floor of this House, and that statement goes unchal- lenged, that a man who was not a member of the House of Commons at all, much less a member of the Government, had been enabled to put his unholy hand into the treasury of Canada and take out public money to pay his own private accounts ? (Cheers.) That is the position that hon. gentlemen find themselves in. That hon. gentleman who slept for many years with the Auditor General's Report under his pillow, who was hunting from morning till night for garbage to throw at the Con- servatives of this country — that hon. gentleman, when that fact was brought before this House, hurled an insulting and slanderous insinu- ation across tiie House, because he knew that he had no answer to make, no vindication, that he could do nothing to defend his friend. That is the position, Sir. Mr. McMiJLLEN". The hon. gentleman is giving a statement to this House that the evidence taken before the Public Accounts Committee wiU not support. I challenge him to produce evidence to warrant this statement. Sir CHAFLE8 TUPPER. I say, Mr. Speaker, tfiat I am repeating a statement -itde in the preeence of the hon, Minisier of the Interior by the senior member for Pictou, who gave evidence, gave the exact 12 statements, gave the swom testimony of the lawyer employed by the hon. Minister of the Interior, which is that the hon. Minister of the Interior made that fishing expedition. It was also proved before the Committee on Public Accounts, that Mr. Sifton's private debt of $500, due to Mr. Howell for that service, was paid by the Government, and that the Minister of Justice, Sir Oliver Mowat, taxed the bill down to $300. And Sir, when I asked the question : Where is that money, I had a right to ask it just as any other hon. member in this House has a right to ask it, when it is proved under oath and proved by the swom testimony before the committee. Although the hon. Minister of the Interior had four days of incubation over the charges which were made^ he allowed that question to go by default. It is too late for the hon. gentleman (Mr. McMullen) to tell the Hou-e that it was not proved ', & it was not proved it was due to the fact that the hon. gentleman^w^ho committed this wrong against the public treasury Tho PRIME MINISTER (Sir Wilfrid Laurier). Order; order. The hon. gentleman is going beyond the question now before the House. Sir CHARLES TUPPER. No, Mr. Speaker, I am now touching a cardinal point. I am now dealing with a statement with which the hon. member for Centre Toronto (Mr. Bertram) closed his speech. He said, that the Liberal party and the Liberal members of this House would not permit wrong-doing, and Ke el llenged fishing expeditions, and Tt i». therefore perfectly right for rae to say, that $19,000 of the public money of Canada have been expended by the Government in a fishing ex- pedition in which they caught nothing except a ruffian who belonged to themselves. Mr. McMULLEN. The hon. gentleman said to this House that it was proved in the Pablic Accounts Committee that a gentleman, who was not a Minister of the Crown and was not responsible to the country was able to put his hands upon $500 of the people's money and ap- propriate it Lowards paying the law expenses in connection with that investigation. When I challenged that statement as being incorrect the hon. gentleman shunted off to another subject, not daring to reiterate the statement, because the evidence taken before the Public Accounts- Committee did not justify any such statement. Sir CEARL'ES TUPPER. I am iiot surprised at the hon. gentleman's uneasiness, but he will find tha: he has to meet my statement when this charge was made as a contrast to the refusal of the hon. Minister of the Interior to do anything t'> investigate these cY irges with which the whole country was filled ana by which the fair name of Canada has been, sullied — 1 say that, putting tl at in contradistinction to the position that the hon. Minister of the Interior, lawyer as he is, when pleading his own case and endeavoring to vindicate himself, he dare not grapple with the^ charge, and he stands on "Hansard" to-day as having allowed fhe case to go by default. I want to draw the attention of the hon. gentle- man to the fact that the present Minister of Justice has just appended n- name to a declaration which puts on file, forever, the legal opinion that the whole of that expenditue was in violation of the law of the country. He has put his name to a declaration dealing with criminal justice, and this was a question of criminal justice, for the hon. Minister of the Interior was endeavoring to ferret out iformation that would put It thete persons in tne position of criminals — the Minister of Justice has put his name to a declaration that not a dollar of public money can be taken out of the federal treasury for criminal administi'ation in any one of the provinces. Now, I am not ^oin^ to take up any more time with that. The hon. member for Centre Toronto committed himself also to the opinion that Mr. Ogilvie was tho best investigator, because he did not believe in lawyers. He thought that a clear-headed man was much more likely to deal with this question successfully than a man whose life is spent and whosj profession involves the necessity of devoting his hfe to making the worse appear the better reason. Therefore, he objects to having a lawyer for the purpose. I wonder if he had learned that while listening to the Minister of the Interior attempting to defend himself with all the reasoning and all those pleas that gentlemen of the legal profession are accustomed to employ when pleading an important case, especially if they have themselves for their clients. (Applause.) I think it will not be necessary for me to take up more time in dealing with the speech delivered by the hon. member for Centre Toronto. In moving his resolution he has, in my judgment, allowed the case against tl 8 Government he is supporting, to go by default. He has taken the position that there should be no independent judicial investigation into this matter. Mr. BEETRAM. Will the hon. gentleman allow me to explain ? X have not taken the position that there should be no independent in- vestigation regarding the charges i^ the Yukon. But I have said, and what I say now is, that before we a^- point another examining committee, we had better get a report from one that is now in existence. Sir CHARLES TUPPER. The hon. gentleman has taken the position that there should be no judicial investigation in the strongest and clearest terms when he made an amendment to vote down the resolution asldng the Government to appoint an mdepsndent judicial investigation. The right hon. Prime Minister and the hon. gentlemen behind him will have to answer to the people of this country for standing between the Govern- ment and a judicial investipfation. I will give the House some further reasons for taking the strong position I do on this question. I may ''^^c affairs connected with the Yukon " is under review, and subject to criticism, and that his acts are germane to the discussion of this amendment. I think my hon. friend now would be well advised if he would not press this point of order. Sir CHARLES TUPPER. I will be as brief as possible on this branch of the subject. But it will be impossible to dt^al thoroughly with the question of incapacity in the administration of public affairs connected with the Yukon without referring to this, one of the most important matters. As every person knows, the question of wood supply in the Yukon is a burning question with the mining population — a burning question in a double sense. In the proposed contract submitted by the Minister of the Interior, it was proposed to give these contractors such terms as would enable them to control not only all the gold but all the wood in the Yukon territory. Now, if there is any greater evidence of incapacity than that, I should like some person to mention it, I will not deal further witli the subject than to say in passing that that was one of the first evidences of incapacity in the management of the de- partment that met with overwhelming condemnation from one end of the country to the other. And I do not believe there is a man who is not blinded by his own party interests who would have favored tjuch a proposition. The MINISTER OF MARINE AND FISHERIES. When did the scales fall from the hon. gentleman's (Sir Charles Tupper's) own eyes ? Sir CHARLES TUPPER. I will tell the hon. gentleman. The scales fell^rom my eyes when I found the character of the proposition put before the House ; when I foun '. there was not provision for making this a Canadian route ; when I found that the price proposed to be paid was so enormous as to make every person stand aghast at the idea of it. But I found that under those terms not only 3,750,000 acres but the entire gold-bearing portion of the Y'ukon would be absorbed. My hon. friend must not shake hif; head, he has asked me a question. The evidence of it was given by the Government the next day, wlien I showed the enormity of the transaction to this House, down came the ]\Iinister of Agriculture (Mr. Fisher) with the statement that the con- tractors had agreed to change all that because, it seems, they could not <.'<'t the hon. gentlemen behind them, ready as they are to endorse almost iinything the Government proposes, to support that proposition. So T think ihat the scales fell from the eyes of a good many people when that nreurred. Now, Sir, where was the defence for appointing this captain of a whaler, Mr. Norwood, and for appointing Mr. McGregor ? Is there any defence that will satisfy an intelligent audienre in this country as a ground for selecting these men for that far-off district ? Why, Sir, in the province of Nova Scotia, in Ontario, in Manitoba, in British Columbia, the Government had many friends, hundreds of men capable of discharging the duty of mining inspector. Did they take any of them ? Now what has become of these officials ? The moment the question of this investigation was set on foot these gentlemen found !', i u their way out of the country. I helieve they were quite able to get away, but up to this hour we have never been told why a horse dealer and the captain of a whaler were selected except that they were friends of the Minister of tho Interior. One of them, I believe, was recom- mended by the Minister of Militia and Defence, I think the Minister of the Interior stated that he owed the whaler to my hon. Iriend the Minister of Militia and Defence. Now what was the conse- quence of this sweeping away of the officials of the Department ? It is admitted that long-tried officials were displaced from that Department. What was the consequence ? We find it stated in the speech of the hon. ^Minister of the Interior. He says that he took office in December, 1896, and Mr. Deville called his attcniiioii, on the 5th of March, to the report that the Yukon hr,d been neglected. Sir, if Mr. Alexander Burgess had not boon degraded, if Mr. liaytor Reed had been tliere, if the Minister had been surrounded wit^ the tried and capable officials that he found when he went into the department, if he had retained them^ he would have had no occasion to go to tho Surveyor-General for information ; his Deputy Minister would have called his attention to it long before. He has got a very smart man, I believe, as Deputy Minister. But his smartness did not take the particular form of investigating reports, as he should have done, and as his Minister should have required. Well, Sir, El ■I'i Mr. Fawcett's Appointment. Mr. Fawcett was appointed. Mark, this is the 5th tx March, and Mr. F.iw^cett was not appointed until the 12th of April. Why this delay ? If the Yukon had been neglected, if it was necessary to send parties there, then why this delay, and why was Mr. Fawcett sent there ? Mr. Deville reported that he was a good surveyor, and I believe he was. I have stated, and I repeat, that I believe him to be an honest man, so far as I am able to judge. But there are men in the city of Ottawa who will swear before a judicial commission that Mr. Fawcett was a mere child, utterly incapable of discharging the duties of his office, and was played M'ith as a child by thos(> cornipL officials by whom he was sur- rounded. They will prove that Mr. Fawcett gave an interview +o their paper — I am now speaking of the proprietor of the " Nugget." Some hon. MEMBERS. Oh, oh. Sir CHARLES TTJPPER. Why, Sir, has it come to this, that no man who is an AiUerican citizen can be mentioned in this House with- out cries of derision from hon. gentlemen opposite ? Is that the result of the six months negotiations between the eommissioners of Her Majesty representing Canada, and those of the United States of America ? (Hear, hear.) Why, Sir, it amuses me to find' these hon. gentlemen blowing hot and cold ; one day ready to do anything, to sub- mit to anything at the hands of the T.nited States, and the next day the great men of their party denounce these men the moment they come into the country. Why, they say these men are only Yankees, they are like Livemnsh. Well. Tiivernash w; here ; I did noi have the pleasure of seeing him, but T believe the Senate listened with attention and re- spect to his statements, and they found the statements of the Minister •)f the Interior were all astray, and that Livemash*s statements were thoroughly to be relied upon. But these gentlemen to whom I refer 25 id Mr. [elay ? )artie3 Mr. . I an, 80 who mere was siir- thoir at no with- result Her es of hon. 8ub- ,y the come y are asnre d re- lister although tnoy have the misfortune to be Americans, say they are pre- pared to I3O before a judicial commission and swear that Mr. Fawcett gave an interview to them — and afterwards admitted that the report of the interview was substantially accurate — in which he disclaimed all responsibility for tbe ofl&cials that were under him, because, he said, they were sent from Ottawa, they were appointed without his knowledge, and he had no control over them whatever. These men state that although Mr. Fawcett was disposed, as I believe he is, to do what was right and just, he was utterly incapable. Again, they are prepared to prove that these officials, before whom the Minister of the Interior had placed opportunities of corruption by enabling them to take up claims and to undermine the rights of those who depended upon them for omical information — ^that these parties surroonded Mr. Fawcett and per- suaded him to issue an order that no claims could be taken up for a certain period. He was asked to allow claims to be taken up in a certain district, called a section, I think, and he made an order, and then these parties got in behind the persons who had taken up claims and got them all secured, and they persuaded him that they were all wrong, that they had led him astray, that he must cancel the order, and he cancelled it, and then they came in and took up the claims. Now that is thu kind of Gold Commissioner that was sent out there, a man without any qualification whatever for discharging the duties of that important posi- tion. He was trifled with in this way by officials who, it has been proved over and over again, were notoriously corrupt in every possible shape and form. Then, Sir, there is another gentleman whose name I am not able to mention, but I will say this, tliat when his name is mentioned, as it will be whenever there is a judicial commission before which he is called to appear, he will swear that a friend came to him in great distress saying that he had got a claim staked out, that he had got it all right, but he was obliged to leave before he could get it recorded. This gentleman was a man of standing and character, and engaged in an im- portant work in the Yukon at the time. My informant said : You will have to do as everybody elese does. What is that ? Why, he said, you will have to let it stand. The gentleman said : I must go away ; I have taken my passage in a steamer, and I must leave, and I am going to be ruined because I cannot get it recorded. Go and get it recorded for me, if you can. And this man, instead of paying $17.60 as the fee, paid $40 to an ofllcial in Mr. Fawcett's department and got the claim recorded, and the man put the balance between the $17.50 and the $40 in his pocket as a bribe, and the owner of the claim went away with the record of his claim in his pocket. Now- that was the position of things in Mr. Fawcett's office, and that is a position of things that de- mands, I think, the most thorough investigation. Now, Sir, I want to draw the attention of the House fo'r a few moments to Major Walsh's report, and I think I will show the House out of that, that there is very good grounds for serious criticism of the Government. Mr. Sift on Contradioted by Major Walsh. The lion, member for Centre Toronto wanted to know why we would not te're the word of the hon. Minister of the Interior. I will give him W I i ! 26 my reason at once. The hon. Minister of the Interior, on the discussion oi the Yukon Bill last session, said, as will \)& found in " Hansard " of 1898, page 584 : Somebody the other night— I think It was the hon. member for West York (Mr. Wallace)— in a sarcastic tone, wanted to know why Major Walsh was camped far from Dawson City ? In the name of common sense, what would he be doing at Dawson City ? We have forty mounted police and a suf- ficient staff of officials there to do the work. Major Walsh is at the place where he was told to stay, attending to the business he was sent to attend to ; ar a when in his good judgment every provision has been made there for the purpose of meeting the emergency of that case, then, and not till then, he will go on to Dawson City to do the work which is intended to be done there. So that according to the statement of the hon. Minister of the Interior,. Major Walsh who was appointed with extraordinary powers, 1 do not say that they were too great, but they were enormous powers, as ad- ministrator of the Yukon, was to stay at the camp where there were half a dozen while people, at the outside, and, perhaps, twenty Indians. He was to be stranded away there in the desert, and the administration of the Yukon was to take care of itself according to this statement of th& hon. Minister of the Interior. Major Walsh does not tell us that story; however, and, I may say, that Major Walsh's story, which is undoubtedly true, is confirmed now by the statement of the Minister of the Interior tne other day, who gave an emphatic and direct contradiction to hi» statement made last year. Major Walsh says : When the Canadian Yukon administration party first camped at the Big and Little Salmon Rivers, it was with the expectation of proceeding by dog teams, as soon as they arrived, to Selkirk and Dawson City. On the arrival of the dog teams, which, owing to the condition of the rivers and lakes, haa been considerably delayed There is the statement of Major Walsh that instead of being ordered to go to this place, he was ordered to go to Dawson City, and was only prevented from doing so by circumstances that he could not control. The hon. Minister of the Interior now confirms that statement, and Major Walsh gives an emphatic contradiction to the statement with which the hon. Minister misled this House at the last session. What does he say : I have been asked why Major Walsh did not get through by water to Dawson City. I have just given the reason. If the assistant commissioner of Mounted Police had got his supplies across in a time five times as long aa it took Major Walsh and myself to put them across ■♦hen we were there, Major Walsh and his party would have gone on to Dawson City before the Ice froze. , , ,ijji,;i/i So that the hon. gentleman who ridiculed my hon. friend for West York (Mr. Wallace) for suggesting that Major Walsh should have gone to Dawson City, says that Major Walsh was ordered to go to Dawson City,, and was only prevented by the condition of the ice. And »/e have the declaration now made by the Minister of the Interior contradicting what he said to the House so long ago as last year, when he now tells ns that Major Walsh's orders were to go on at once, but that he was prevented by the condition of the ice. There are two or three points in this re- port to which I wani to briefly draw the attention of the House. Major Walsh says : On arrival at Dawson I found a grreat many questions awaiting solution which could only be disposed of by the authority of the cor ;mlBsloner. 87 feo it appears that there was no such monstrous absurdity for Major Walsh to be at Dawson City. The Mounted Police were all that were required to discharge the duties of the commissioner ! But Major Walsh thought differently. Major Walsh says further upon the question of royalty : For Ir stance, the question of royalty, over which there has been consider- able discussion, appeared fb be somewhat mixed. I immediately announced that royalty would be collected on all claims the leases of which were re- newed subsequent to the date when the law came into force. Nearly all the leaseholders of the larger prospected claims showed a disposition to respect the collection of royalty. Others, however, were not tractable, their principal objection being that their leases were granted for one year, and that once being granted subsequent restrictions could not be placed upon them. So that the incapacity of the Minister of the Interior again came into play by having made different an-angements with dif- ferent persons in regard to the question of royalty, and having failed to bring them into operation from the time they were appointed and not from the time the parties applied. While acknowledging the force of these reasons they submitted, that a more thorough examination of the real cost of outputtlng the gold would convince the Government that the royalty is a severe tax, and expressed a hope that next year would see it removed, Royalty, mark this ,Mr. Speaker. Major Walsh declares : royalty was not collected from any claims which had not got i.ito good working order or which could not show a profit after paying royalty, and this would represent a large sum. So that a lot of regulations issued by the Department of the Interior, and administrated under this horse dealer i and captain of the whaler, were allowed to be trampled upon and did not come l.ito operation at fill. ' s,' . ,- , •-.■•;■/... ;-x . ■■>-■ ■.... Again, more than half the leases were exempted from royalty on account of having been renewed previous to the date of the law requiring the pay- ment of royalty coming into force. • • • The claims on this (Dominion) creek had been staked after the new regulations were in force, and should have been 250 feet In length, whereas they were staked 500 feet. After care- ful examination we decid d to confirm the rightful staker in his claim of 500 feet. So that we have the evidence of Major Walsh of the incapacity of the person who is in charge, who, I presume, was Mr. Fawcett, to discharge that duty. The settling up of the claims in this way gave great satisfaction. All the remaining creek claims on Dominion and all fractions of claims were re- served to the Government. . - In my judgment, one of the most striking evidences of incapacity — perhaps it would not come under the head of incapacity — ^but, in my judgment, it would warrant that term, is the monstrous royalty that has been charged, the oppressive conditions to which the miners have been subjected. I shall draw the attention of the House to the evidence of the truth of what I stated here Inst session, because every person acquainted with this subject knows that the greatest possible hindrance t-o j;he development of the Tukon has been found in these oppressive regulatione. He aaja — and I shall hav« o«<»«ion to nin to thk ia another connection later on — he says : m The Liquor Permits. In two or three cases liquor was allowed to pass Into the district of Daw- son City by the Northwest Mounted Police at Taku under permit issued by the territorial government, subsequent to my appointment as aforesaid, but why these permits were recognized I have been unable to ascertain, they being directly contrary to instructions in this regard. Major Walsh tells iis here that the Minister of the Interior (Mr. Sifton) gave him instructions not to allow any liquor to go in, under authority of the Northwest Territories Government. The Minister d Justice has told him (Mr. Sifton) that the Northwest Territorieb Government was authorized and could legally grant those permits, although the Minister of Justice stated subsequently — and that is a point to which attention may be drawn — that the Government still had the power to cancel these permits. Will anyone tell me that it was not the business of the Minister of the Interior in regard to such an important question as the admission of liquor into that country; will any person t'ill me that it was not his business to have made that the subject of discussion with the Government, and to have it fuly settled by them. A very sharp controversy occurred on this subject — and I was anxious that the Minister of the Interior should be here this afternoon so that h . might hear something on this question — a very sharp controversy occurred be- tween the senior member for Pictou (Sir Charles Hibbert Tupper) and the Minister of the Interior (Mr. Sifton) in regard to these liquor per- mits. Sir Charles Hibbert Tupper said : As a person was able to do in the city of Victoria, also a member of the Bar, that is, to charge and collect a fee of $500 because he was able, by tele- pram and by a letter, to obtain from the Minister of the Interior a permit for his client to send liquor into the Yukon. That was the statement by the senior member for Pictou, and in reply to that the Minister of the Interior (Mr. Sifton) said : I may be allowed to state for the Information of the hon. gentleman (Sir Charles Hibbert Tupper) that the statement he has made Is absolutely untrue. Now, Sir, I come to another reason why I am not able to accept the statement of the hon. Minister of the Interior. That hon. gentleman (Mr. Sifton) again said : The law partner of the hon. member for Pictou (Sir Charles Hibbert Tupper) is the only man that the public or private records of this Govern- ment can show has ever telegraphed to a member of this Government from the city of Victoria about a liquor permit. " About a liquor permit," these are the words of the Minister of the Interior. Strange to say, after all his legal astuteness, the hon., gentle- man (Mr. Sifton), having absolutely denied the statement that a gentle- man of the legal profession in the city of Victoria had received a fee of $500 for getting a permit to allow liquor to pass into the Northwest Territories ; having declared that the law partner of Sir Charles Hib- bert Tupper was the only person who had telegraphed to him about a pei-mit, the lion, gentleman (Mr. Sifton), before he sat down — as will be seen at page 875 of the ''Hansard" — admitted that he had a telegram from Archer Martin, now a judge on the Bench, and then a barrister in x> thk ia 29 ;t of Daw- issued by pesald, but 'tain, they T. Sifton) authority )I Justice vemment ough the to which power to 3 business ; questLon a i 38 from Major Walsh's report as to the unwisdom of thic enormous charge- of 10 per cent, in royalty. He pays : The cost of prospecting a claim may be any way from $500 to $2,000. and even five times as much as the latter amount has been expended in pros- pectlr.g claims which are now abandoned. Perhaps with cheaper labour they may be worked at some future time. i give that as another evidence of the absolute necessity of looking into fliis matter. I do not require to detain the House any longer with this- interest: ig report of Major Walsh, but I commend it to the careful con- sideration of hon. gentlemen as being worthy of their attention. A Remarkable Permit Granted by Mr. Sifton to his Former Partner. When the House rose at six o'clock, I was dealing with a very im- portant question in which I gave a reason to hon. gentlemen why I could not accept the unsupported word of the hon. Minister of the Interior in relation to the question of a permit. I will now give a further reason, why I thought I would be justified in refusing to accept that ben gentleman's statement. We have a very interesting account from the hon. Minister of the Interior of his own partner not Sir Charles Hibbert Tupper's partner, but his own partner, and it is worth the attention of the House. He says : A gentleman there named A. E. Phllps, was a junior partner in my office. That is at Brandon. This gentleman, like a great many others, caught the gold fever, the Klon- dike fever, last year, and went out to the Yukon. When did he go to the Yukon ? He went to the Yukon when his partner became the Minister of the Interior. Mr. DOMVILLE. That is not correct. Sir CHARLES TUPPER. However, the fact of him being the former partner of the Minister of the Interior put him in a position to do what no other man could do The hon. gentleman says : I defy any man living to bring the slightest evidence of the truth of any such statement. I dissolved partnership with Mr. Phllps when I became a member of the Government, and have had no business connection with him, directly or indirectly, in any way, shape or form, since that time. That is very strong language and very clear, but the fact that he could proclaim himself as having recently been the junior partner of the hon. Minister of the Interior would be no mean advantage to him in the way ill which matters have been carried on in the Yukon territory. But I am now going to chow the House what I think will be strong evidence that this former partnership is still a bond of aifectioji existing betw.''..u the junior partner, Mr. Philps, and the hon. Minister of the Intei' . notwithstanding the statement that he defies anybody to prove that he is in partnership. It is not very easy to prove a connection of that kind,. but if anything would prove it, it is what I am going to put before the House, and it goes to show that, while ostensibly the partnership i ^ay be dissolved, that their position is what it has been befc^e, t>>a^- is u 3«/, that they are immediately interested in undertakings connected wiv^ s- ploiting of the Yukon territory. He says : The story was circulated at the coast that I had giv^n Mr, Philps a liquor permit, and aat he had taken liquor into the Klondike, and with that [S charge- 39 2,000, and In pros- bour they dng inta writh this- eful con- n. ^ormer very im- y I could iteriojT in er reason, hat hen from tho Hihbert mtion of my office. the Klon- «^hen his ;ing the sition to :h of any aecame a vlth him, le could he hon. the way But I evidence^ :tet'!v.' ,u [ntei' . lat he is at kind^ fore the i^av he i- a liquor ith that charity which covers a multitude of sins, the story was industriously circu- la ied that I was his partner in connection with the taking of liquor Into that country. Well, Mr. Speaker, he never had a liquor permit from me or my department, directly, indirectly, or in any way, shape or form, by or under the authority of any member of this Government. That is a pretty statement. But did he give Mr. Philips what it is charged that he gave him ? On page 877 of " Hansard/' the hon. Minister of the Interior says he wrote tuis letter : This will introduce Mr. Philps, who will be permitted to enter the Yukon •district with such provisions he may choose to take with him, without regard to the regulatioi.8. Now, Sir, if his colleagues, for I cannot believe that they were conscious of such a transaction as this, know that he is not connected with Mr. Philps, I want him to produce such a telegram as that to any other man living. I want him to show any single case in which he authorized anybody to take provisions without regard to limit or to quantity or kind, or to regulations into that country. He says : I command you as my officials to allow that gentleman to take into the Yukon territory what- ever he may wish to take in there in the shape of provisions without any regard to existing regulations. I ask the right hon. First Minister v/hether he thinks that any member of this Government, or any man in any department of government, ought to be permitted to give a certi- ficate of that kind to any man living. I do not believe that he would sanction such an action. How was that sanction use 1 ? I have tUe evidence — I do not intend to give the name — but I am going to read a letter, sent by a gentleman whose name is withheld to the " Mail and Empire," and I may say that that gentleman, although I have with- held his name is willing to go before a judicial commission and swear to the truth of what I am stating. He is known to every member of this Hor. ;c to be as respectable i!s any man within the walls of this House. I -:r. ihit on my own responsibility. What is his statement? It is W. H. : r.rt'.ngr, Esq., -, October 4th, 1898. Mail and Emjlre," Toronto, Dear Sir,— When in Victoria, B.C , 'n June l&sc, a gentleman introduced himself to me, and in substance said he had a permit to take a large quantity of liquor into the Yukon district and v anted to know if I knew a certain distiller. I replied in the afflrmaLl .-^ and wished to see before taking hold of the deal in any way, the bona flde nature of the transaction. A telegram was sent at my suggestion to Victoria, where the original order or permit was held ; an answer came back, which I saw, stating that the original, signed by Clifford Sifton, could be forwarded by next steamer if •essary. The party in whose favor the permit was, was Mr. Philps, part- 'u<" j.f Clifford Sifton, of Brandon. I asked who was interested in the matter ' - xT'** '.hp party who offered 't to me ; he said that Philps was to receive iiV ' 1 cash when order or permit was handed over, and one-third of tht^ piofits at the end of the deal. I then would have nothing to do with It ; did not think seriously of having anything to do with it at any time. Here is a copy of the order, as offered to me, and that copy of the order, signed Clifford Sifton, is exactly what we have under the Minister of the Interior's own hand, as the permit he gave to Mr. Philps to take this liquor in : Ottawa, 13th May, 1898. To the Officers and Offlc'als in the Yukon Territory : This introduces Mr. Philps, who has a permit to enter the Yukon district if. Ill m W ' 40 with such pnvlsions as he may see fit to take with him, without regard to the usual regulations. (Sgd.) CLIFFORD SIFTON. This was nresumablj- signed by Clifford Sifton, the original I did not see. Well, we have the original here, and that is exactly correct. I have in my possession a letter from the party who originally offered the deal to me, dated thf> 28th June, 1898, wherein he says, amongst other things,, to me : "You may have this in its entirety for $10,000." Only $10,000, Mr. Speaker, on this little job. You may have this in its entirety for $10,000 cash ; If you want to work on it wire me at once. I have secured the thing out and out, owing to my inability to dispose of it, and he retaining the Interest. Sir, I give that to th "' ■^ii?'? as another reason why I do not accept the statement of the Min^^ the Interior, that he has no connection with the party to whom he w !d give such a monstrous permit ts that, to take in anything, without regard to regulations, and violating the laws under which the department acts, for the purpose of giving that to Mr. Philps which no other man has ever received before or since. That is a transaction that I place before the House as testimony, as conclusive as it is possible to present, of the incapacity — I won't even say. incapa- city — but of the corruption of this whole transaction. I do not intend to detain the House at any further length, except to draw attention for a moment to the commission to Mr. Ogilvie issued by the Government. Sir, is this a commission calculated to meet the widespread charges of corruption and mismanagement in connection with the Yukon, as de- tailed in this amendment by my hon. friend (Mr. Clarke) ? It is not. A number of miners sent a letter to the Prime Minister, making certain charges, and Mr. Ogilvie is appointed to investigate these charges, noth- ing more, nothing less. But Mr. Ogilvie, under his instructions, is not in a position to deal with anythinsr outside of the specific charges con- tained in the miners* petition.* The instructions to Mr. Ogilvie have been given to us by the Minister of the Interior, and here they are. The hon. gentleman (Mr. Sifton) said : Here is ths letter I wrote to Mr. Ogilvie accompanying the commission and containing his instructions : Ottawa, 10th October, 1898. Dear Sir, — You will receive herewith a commission to investigate charges which have been made by a miners' committee agair>st the administration of Government affairs in the Yukon district. This commission has been isi^ued in consequence of the receipt of a formal complalnt,a copy of which is at- tached to the commission. You will proceed at once upon the receipt of the commission with the invesygation, and you are authorized to notify the per- sons who have signed the petition, wherever possible, of the time and place and when the commission will be opened. Mr. Ogilvie is simply authorized to notify a dozen miners who signed this petition, and who may be away in the woods or in far-off districts, jprosecuting their employment. It is the desire of the Government that the Investigation should be thorough and complete, and that each and every charge that has been made In the miners' petition should be thoroughly Investigated, and that you shouki make a definite report. '1 •', 41 The Government's Investigation a Farce- Nothing more than tjiis. It is a farce. (Applause.) It is no ana- wer to the charges which are ringing over three continents, of incapacity and mismanagement and corruption in regard to the Yukon administra- tion. This commission limits the whole thing down to what a few miners have put in their statement, and these miners, when the com- mission opens, nre, at their own expense, to maintain themselves, and to abandon their work, and to incur the undying hostility of the Govern- ment. Is this House, composed of intelligent business men, to be de- ceived, and deluded, and fooled, by such a proposition into believing that such a commission will dispel the dark cloud of disgrace that has settled down upon the fair land of Canada in connection wilh these Yukon charges ? (Hear, hear.) I am astounded, when I look across the fioor of this House and see my right hon. friend, the First Minister ; I am astounded that he did not, the moment this resolution was tabled, at once rise in his place and say : I know that the conduct of my Govern- men is clear ; I know that our course will challenge investigation ; I am not afraid of the administration of the Minister of the Interior being examined with the most scrupulous care, and I at once accept the proposal. And, Sir, what was that pro- posal ? It was not that we should name the commission, but that the Government themselves should select a judicial commission on their own responsibility, a commission beyond the control of the Government of the day. They had the whole judiciary of Canada to select from ; they could choose their own friends there, if the liked, and, so far as I am concerned, such is my respect, such is my confidence in the high char- acter and integrity of the bench of Canada, without respect to what political party a judge may have belonged to before he went on the bench, I say, that the verdict of such a judicial commission would, in my judgment, meet with hearty apj roval by the people of Canada. Was not that a fair proposition for us to make ? (Hear, hear.) Why did not hon. gentlemen opposite accept it ? Why is it that they cannot find men behind them in this House who will force them to accept that proposition ? Sir, in view of the disgrace that rests upon Canada on ac- cfunt of these world-wide charges, the Government, out of respect to what they owe to Canada, and to themselves, should of their own motion take the best means of dispelling that cloud and of proving whether these charges are true or false. The Government should have said : We are determined to probe to the bottom this matter, which strikes at the in- tegrity of Canada, and let the wrong-doers take the consequence. They might lose the Minister of the Interior — I believe they would by the re- p'^rt of any judicial commission, choose it as they might — but, Sir, the Government would save themiL'elves. (Cheers.) Sir, in what position are they now, and in what position do they place their followers behind them ? Had they granted such a commission, whether the charges were found too true or not, it would have disposed completely of any sus- picion of complicity .pn t]ie part^ pf. the G.Q,vern«eiit. I say to these gentlemen on the Trcrf.s^'i'y berfqhes i ' Y our liiye;HO choice. You have to accept that resolution;,' iiiA 'a{)poiiit tha'fr'jtidieidl commission, and you have to show that yoii;jire:uot in !hr.deJ1lo^aWtf\;ondition that yon ^e forced to appoini:, as )i{ cpmmisflicner ;t,o, im^^ig^te charges againat mm- the Minister of the Interior, and the GoTemment of Canada for malad* ministration in that country, a man who was a dependent relative of the Minister of the Interior who is accused. Was ever in a civilized country such a thing heard of that when a man was charged with high crimes and misdemeanors, charged with failing in his duty to his country, charged with a course which involved the Government of which he was a member in disgrace ? I ask, was ever such a thing known in the civilized world before as to allow the man so charged to say : " I can- not pei-mit that charge to be investigated by an independent judicial tri- bunal ; I must have my relative, my dependent, for my judge, or I will leave your Government," (Applause.) Sir, I tell them that they have got to take that resolution ; they have got to adopt that resolution. They have got, in defence of that country, of themselves, and of their own lionour, to adopt it, or they will be placed in this position, that as they can only obtain a subservient report from a man who is dependent upon themselves — and his own positron makes it impospible, unless, as I said before, he were more or less than human, for him to discharge his duty independently — they will find that they have rung the deathknell of this Administration, and the intelligent people of thTs country will rise in their might and strike down the men who are unwilling to have their acts submitted to an independent judicial tribunal, because they know that it would involve them in disapproval and disconfiture. (Loud Cheers.) • t • < ■> « • • • • • • ... ,. « • 1 o ■ ■ • « 1 * ♦ • • « I •• • •< • 4 t » I malad* itive of livilized bh high ountry, he was in the 'I can- 2ial tri- p I will :y have Jution. if their that as endent ss, as I rge his ;hknell py will have e they (Loud