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Les diagrammes sulvants illustrent le mAthode. errata ad to nt le pelure, pon di 32X 1 2 3 1 2 3 4 5 6 '^i^bHtX Jl Divi: ARGUMENT 7 ia v \ • \ •■/ "' :- c^ BK.FORE IHK Judicial Committee of the Privy Council of the Special Case 1> i AS ro HIE VALIDITY OF THE AWARD OF THE 3rd SEFTf.lVlBEls 1870 Rr.si'i:ri'i:\(i tfik ivision and Adjusunent of the Debts, Credits. Liabilities, Pro'oerties and Assets of the Province of Canada Under the 142nd Section of the British North America Act, 1867. 'w > I' Ol i A\VA. i;.r.ii,i] M III! iMii I "I ii:oi;ri;N i c.< ., \.i.i'\y si'k;;:-:^' WJ ! !■;., 5^^ ri"*»in»'T**H< 'Ti^ Ur^ i\ U /6 vi ^ 'X'^'jy^ ■'Ml :M ^■~** -v.-.i-'-^^* ■^ Sis^^i&* ■'■^ -W^^ CORRIGENDA. i;i:" i 1, TO! /; ■ I i,ii>l' ' •! ::i I /''I'lli i\ Mj.iil liiisaii>iucf (Dill Pidle Pii-e :.t'. ; .^r lif le. U'!' I ' rl'-S' >.'■< li.!a'J i''/i>'rstllf '/ll-:- ^^■.— "":•■!»*« 'v>f.■^t^^s^lc^,y.^,yf^>y>'r|f>»rr^*.tJrmm ^> f^•^■^ I i I I il '' •!<*(!»» Ij^^^j^^,,^.^ I iitS^iiiiuMttimi MMmimmff^i& .'[n>iciAT. coMMiTTr:i<: of the riuvv council, Coi'NLII. ClIAMIlKK, WllITKll.VM,, Wednesday, Feliniary J3tL, 187S Present- Tllli LuUI) CHANCKLLOK, Tiiic Dlkk ok Ruii:\io\d, Sii: Jamls W. Colvim;, LOKI) Sl'.M'.OKNi:, SlK J'aIINKS PKAfOCK, SlU MoNTAGl'K E. .S.Miril, .SiK ituiJEKT J\ Coi.r.n-.K. IN THE ^^ATTJ-:l: of an aPvBitkatjon and award r.r.T\vi:i;.\ TrJEl'KOVlN'CE OF ONTARIO AN'1> THE I'ROVINCE OF (,>rEJ!KC. I'Tra'i.-i rijit fnmi .Mi'.~sis. IMatton ;ui'l Mi ii'.litli's Sliuitliainl Note?.] TiiK A Ti'oKN .v-OtvNKK.vi,:- In this cas'j I think liutli sidds claim the vi^lic lo W'/n\. I do not know what voiir Lordsldps will decide about it. TriK LoKD Ciiancki.i.ok: — Have no' you agreed iunoii^' vonrselve; which ^):,'!l beyii Tin: Aitounkv-Gknkkai.:— Xo. My fiiend Mr. lion janiin, who }ipj)P :irs roi- the Piuvince of (Juehec, claims the right to begin, and I alsci claim the right to In.'gin. Perhaps my learned friend will u-'cjuc that this is a case in whioii he'fcckt to disturl.) an award, and that imnia facie the award is to be considered good ; but really and truly it is not an appe;d agaiiist an award. An award has been made, and the Provi.iee o.'' Ontariti say that that award is a good award ; thi! Province of Quebec say tli.it it is not a good award. This is a ])rococding in fact to substantiate the award. It is not really and truly an appeal. 1 do not. lu.->ed to tn .it t' 1'^ aw, I rd .IS ao .rV-,*:; HWi). ■ *^.v mr> m t^ '••it '^i .'■^,f-\'-Jl4 '0; ;;"«*w»!.^;- ••h.^J^ y ».MWi,.^^,,usc...^,^.:,.r^-^.^. 3 I sfituted |v-ji.,-!;iIvolv tlic Pi'ivint- fleomecl t<« i < of this piuctM.'ilin^ occurrod in this way. An arbitration having ])Con liad nnder the Hritish Xoitli Aniociea Act of 1807, tiio Province of Qnel)oe hv a joint M(l(h'es5 to tho I,f'^i>lativc Afhumbly comphiinoJ to the (Tovernoi-Gerioral of the l>roceetlinii.s dmii'^ the aihitiatiiin; allcgod that tliey were illegal and void. They complained (jf tlio award which liad hecn made by two of tJie arbitrators under the Act, and a-ked tiio interference of the Federal Governnient of Canada to do thcin jiisticp, eornplaining tliat the award was- not onl}' illogal hnt nnjnst to tiiom, having been made bv tvioari)itrators without any representation on tlieir part at the time of the award. LTpon that the Governnr-Geneial, consulting the Minister of Justice of the C(»lonits, came to the conclusion in his report that there was no power in him to interfere in the matter, but advised that tlio proper mode of pro- cedure Would be to form a special ca^e which the two Cidonies should submit for the decision of llt-r Majesty .vith the aid of Her Privy Council and on that rct'ominendir'i.ri flio ease ha-; been formed and is now brought before yonr Lordships My L'lrd-;, tlie coiitroversv can be most conveniently placed before your JiOrdships by c;,]lini.' your attention tir.st to the particular sections of the Act for the Union of t!ij Provinces of the ilOth Mai'oli, 1S07, — the particular soctioiibof that Act which are iMvolved in the controversy. It is the ;:>Otli A'ictoria, cap. 8. The Jth hoction '. any trusts existing in resiieet thereof anil to anj interest other than that of the Province in the same."' One word if your Lordships please on that section, Jt begins by sjM'akiT A lands ill the Provinces of Canada and Nova Scotia, but as the Pro- vince of Canada was compo.sed of the two Provinces which now form Ontario Old Quebec, it goes on to ]>rovide that as regards what is in Canada, (he lands, iinncs, rovalties and minerals, .sha 11 b L'lOIU to tl le sovera 1 y rovmces o f O ntano. Quebec, Nova Scotia and New Urunswick in which they respectively are situate, i'lien sectioti llo is — "All assets connected Vvith such portions of the public debt of CllCll ro\iii<'ij as are assumed by that J'rovince." Now rlie lllth, ll2ih and l-r I .!,,'!■ r li section in.' really tin; ciiicial test. Section 11 1 is — "(Janada .shall be liable |i' III.!) K.-M Oi Iiiit)iliti(.s of each Province existing at the (I.nion." Section 1 Hi tly ;li;dl In liable to {Jana>la for the amounl. il ii.d < ) nci n;C. CoIi|oUlt.ly by whif'li tl;i;(U'b! of the Proviticc of Canada exceeds nl the l/nion (;:.',,".<)ii,0(if» an< M.ll! ill'lCMl). he; ciiarge Wltll mt ere; 'i'he. as>(!ts ennmeiated in lli the rate ot 5 per cent, per annum ■It I .sc hediile to ihi-:' "'*'*««s*?r5^j*«w^>'5»j^^^ ^:;«?,*.: '■S'^'VS&s:-' -» ■.:■'.■' ■.:■"■■- <^<^^i.l^-^J^>^ ■.['..: -"■■"--■•-"■■"-■■ - .■.^-^p^C-"-'^',if''- ■"■-i^- ^tuakLiii Act belon;»iii^ iit tlio riiioii to the I'luvliice of Ciumda sliiill he tlio propoity of Ontario iiii.l (^nchuc conjointly." Tlio next two s(!Ction.-i aro the 117th and llStli, which I think hoar upon the snl)jcc*t. "The several Province? shall retain all their respective pulilic property not otherwise disposed of in this Act, subject to the ritjjiits of Canada to assiiino any lamls or pp.hlic properly ret pii red for the fortifi- cations or the defence of the Country. The followiiii; sums shall bo paid yearly by Canada to the several Provinci'S for the support of their (lovernments and Lenjisla- turea: Ontario, 80,000 dollars; Quebec, 70,000 dollars; Nova Scotin, G(>,000 dollars; and New Brunswick, 50,000 dollars; making 200,000 dollars, and an annual grant in aid of each I'rovince shall be made eiputl to SO cents per lioad of the popniation, as ascertained by the Census of ISOl, and in the case of Nova Scotia and Now Pirunswick by each separate deceimial Census until tl»n population ot ejich of t'lose two Provinces amounts to 400,000 souls, at which rate such grant shall thereafter remain. Such fjrant shall be in full scttlomeni of all future demands on Canada ai'd shall bo piiid half-yearly in advance to eufh Province, but the Gov- ernment of Canada shall deduct from such grants as against any Province all sums cli.iiaeable as interest on the public debt of that I'roviiu'o in excess of the several iiiiiouuts stipulated in this Act." Then comes the section 142, whicli is the lajt remaining section which your Lordships will find it necessary to examine. " T!ie divi.-ion and adjustment of the debts, eredit?', liabilities, properties and assets of I'pjier Canada and Lower Canada shall bo referred to the arbitrament of three arnit:;'.tc!rs, one chosen by the Govermuent of Ontario, one by the Govern- ment of (^Ui-bec, and one by the (Tovornmcnt of Canada, and the selection of the arbitrators shall not Ito made until the Parliament of Canada and thy Legislatures (if (.>nUrio and Quebec have met, and the arbitrator clio.-eu by the Government of Canada shall not be a resident either in Ontario or in (^)ucl)cc." P»eforrt pru'jeodiiig to road the case I would c^dl your liOrdships' attention specially to the j)C'culi;ir language of section J42 as compared with the language of sections I12;uidlIo. Sections 112 and li;'> treat of the- debts ami assets of (Jniario ar^d (.Quebec. Loi:i« SKLnousK:— Tiioso are cases of conjoint lini)ility. That can have nothing to do with the division and a(;justm"nt, can it ? Mii. I'KN'.rAMi.N: — 1 will call your Lordshi|)s' utteniiou to the dilTerence in tlic phraseology. The 142nd section speaks ot the division auu adjustment of the debts and assets of Upper Canada and Lower (^anada, not of Quebec and Ontario, and provides that that adjustment and division of the debts shall be ujade by three arbitrators, one for each Province, one by the Govern uu;nt of Ontario, the other by the Government of Quebec, and the third by the Government of Canada. I shall revert to the ])oint, but I will call your Lordsh-ps" attention to it at the moment, especially with this view. A\^e think that tiie meaning of that is that by Articles 112 and 113 the debts and assets of the Province of Canada, to be com- posed of C,)aebec and Ontario, arc to bo divided. Ontario and Quebec are jointly liable to Canada for the excess, over 02 millions, of I ho puijlic debt, the assets belonging to Quebec and Ontario conjointly. Tmk Loud Cuanckf.i.ok: — That is the assets in tlic Ith schedule ? Mu. P>i5nm.\.mkn:--\''cs ; and then as to all other matters, and particularly as to properties and assets of Upper (Canada and fiower Canada, which are these dis- tinguished from Ontario and (Juebec. Lono SKr.noKN'i:; P>ut do not thoy mean the same thing? Mu. l>i;.\.iAMr.N:- -AVe argue that tluiy do not, that thi! v.-onis '-Upper Canada" and "Lov. ei Canada" have refinvneo to the existence of the dc!)ts aiid assets at the tiuu' of t!ie Union of L'pper and Lower Canada info the i'rovince of Canada, be cause y-'Ur Lordship.^are nodoubt awarehistoricdly ihat in 1 71)0 Uppur and lower Canada wen- separate. in ISl'Mhoy were united in the Province of (Jaiiada 11 , 'nr.. '■"'T^'Tr'iaww' ti* 'u r._,.UjAt\iiiv:i^ aiiil in I'^iiT tlii;y svcre sepiUMtcd. ;iti(l tin; (jinvtiuu would natiii'ally ;iri-)i> wliat was to livr-iniie of tlio (l(.'l)t3 and w.i^Kiif- of tin: two ProvincL'S a> they oxisttid hoforo t!i« tini'i ■•vlieii tlio two I'ioviM('Os were luiitod l>y tlic .;t of 1840, hccaiise. as your I,ii!(islii|is \\\\\ jiorcoive jnvst'iitly l)y ri'feronec tn that Act, tlie Act of 1S40 mad*; 110 provision in rolatioti to the d<.I)t>'. (d" Upper Canada and [iOwer Canada boyoiid piMvidin^c for tlio p.iyniont of interest on tliose dehts hy tiio i^'cncral Province of tlie two l/nited Pn,>vinces. Having piii your Lordships in possession simply of the ieyishition upon llie suhject, it oci'onns necessary now to call your Lordships' attention in the order c-f (hite to wliat occurred in the execution of tin's Act of I'arliam-cnt. Loud Si;r.i»i:NE: — J do not know whether this is a convenionr, time, but I shoidd Mke to ask you whetlier there is anv jfeneral law of the Province or of tlie C'.i'.ouy as to :ii!)it:r;;tions ^ Mu. ]!i;x.iA>riN: — Tlie law of Lower Canada would bo the Prench Civil Law and tlie la..- of T pjpcr Canada would be the Eiit^Iish law. Sii; .]. '^V. r.,r.\-!i.i:: — Ir would be determined now l)y the (Mvil Code of Canada. 'Mi:. I!!.^•^\^'l^:-- Vis, I'o'.v ir wi'uld be. 'L'he Civil Code is the Code of Lonff C.;'!';;,!, of ^jr.i ■!>(.";•. J>oKi) Sk; i;'.i;.v;,: — Do r ui;iK'!-r,ind you to say that there was a difference ijer^vee:"! th'j I ■.'.•, ;.ppli."able to ..-ic l*i'o\incti ani! the other.- f Mi:, fh ..; ,m:.n: -'i'iiis on.' i- ^uveiiicd bv the Civil Law and the othei one bv theCo;-):..;! L.-.-. .^l:: l!i:.N".'.\':' \;-- T tbii k ihei'e i.- -on.i.' little diil'erepcc. but very little, (^nr (•oi.n.-ii;i":i '.■ t!:;' :!:".- i^j'.i'^ ,i.: Ai'T o'' P.h li.imeiit tin- .-ection^ of the .\v,t are to be iiitii p:''.-;.-.; ii.'-e. ;-di:;i.r t.» Ji.^ \w wf I'i;u',l;i!id. l.oi;!> S:.l:; ■•:> : ;- Vccoi V".\-^ •■' ibe law of ]viL;i;ind I Mi:. 1 li N.' ■.'■■;•;:- \e?, ;>;. \i-' '<" the lb''li,^h Par:iair;ent \i^ tu be construed ;!i; wb'.t I -hoiild thiid;. Mi-fore procoedinjjf witit (he di?iii»io!i (if rl.t; ijuestions of l.iw which aie I'aised bs the Spc.?ial Case as stated, I think ' "-'.'iit to -all your I.ord.-hips" atlcn.ion first to the liistory >{ the pro- cord in i.-." U'l'ier file A'.'i. At 'pai^e 5 of the (.'ase youi' Lordshi])s will find the very lir.>t ;i;:t d,o:i..' whie'i is the appjintnu'iif of ^[r. Maephevson as arbitrator for Ont.n'io. which was on the io'h .lannaiw, l^*''''^, -The a[)pointments were by pnti'uts fro'u rlitj Cro-vn, and it will bo necessary U) read the terms of the patent or i'oMim;--i"n by vvhieh the aibitiatoi- wire aiijtoin'ted, bccanso as your Lordships Would iiniii'' liat';Iy perceive iniudi of the contention in tliis case must turn on the tcrin> of i!,:-' i':itenr~, Acordiiiir to oui- i/onti'ntioii thev admit of no tioubt. ''\'ici .ria. ' y ilic Ciaci ( f ( lod, of ihe I niled IJiiu'dom of Great Pritain .eid Irrlaiid, < jii'TM I )-i'eiider of the Paiih, eti'.. eic. 'I'o lb." iroiuiurable David Lewi- .M;;>'j,hi'i>.j!;, (iT tilt City ol Toront", KMpiire, and to idl whom th'S;' piv-,'M- .-ii;.!! coi;r , Cie'lie^' : ^\'hl•!l;as in and by th(! M:]nd sertioii ol' tho Pritih North Ann'iica Ac! id' l^tiT, il is enacted that lli"i:i\i-: '1 I'll al jii-l ni"it; o! tlicih.bt~. credits, liabilities, propertit;s and -is-^ets JMIIM . .Ill ;■, I 'Ol' I, iv, IT ( Vihai llnUi be refe'ii d to the arbitrament of ihii \>;u II" ■ii'bii /,o. "f I •iil.il .- 1, by Iho ( ,V I l|i' ( -ov- >o\o,-Mlii. Ill 01 Oiitar 1 1. I iiii' bv tilo ( io\T"lim.'Ml mI 01 moon! ol t. :in:iiwn-Hiiit you, the said David liCwi? Macphei'son, to i)e the arbitrator for and on behalf of the Goveriunent of our I'rovineo of Ontaiio, touching tlfc said matters under the statute, ajid we do hereby confer upon you full power and aurhority as aforesaid to act together witli the other arbitiator.- in the said rceitetl section v^feri'ed to, and in and about the division and udjustnient of the debtn creilits. li-bUities. properties and assets of Upper Cana'la and Lower Canada, and con"t;iii:nu every matter and tiiint; relatini;- thereto, and to adjudicate and award tlieroon i.' virtue of t!ie same IJritish Xurth America Act of 1^07, and itccordin to tl; t! in tent and meaninii' therenf, to have and to hold the said oHice of arbitrato".' a.- aforesaid during oni' pleasure." Then the Great Seal is by order of the (J'.i'joii atH.\e;l. Nov, my Lords, on the J^i.ith January, nt page 1, is tlie ap rio!t\ini'. i)V Her Majesrv of dodge D.iv for the Province of ()ii eoec. and the niignaL'e i> n>t ijuiti; the same. The grant of the power is in line 33, '-To have, tioiu, eX'.-i c eniov tl! t! ti'.e eoer '.vjr- • tore.-a:'! nrito .\\i SUHl iifllco o .n. th if ;irI'itrator, el :i l>v the ( lovernment of .am Charles Dewey Day, with all and every hcririe.-. j Ilegos, emiilnmciits and aihantages to the said otiice by nig during oui- royal |)leasiiie." r.!;ui:.\r-: — Von do not s.iv th;it tint is a diffei'cnce of substance, do i I (••.ncor!: but i; ; Vl'.-l i!.'' rnMuii.g ni!,~>''iii (' :nm.\.m[n:--Xii. my Lmd ; I am pointing out lli:it so far as (Quebec is ;ra-i' in tlio commission or tlie iiatent to t!ie arbitrator f(.«r tiiere is n ■ • hi: imir.L! :\'ie!-, d tlie ■.er !i in words to ai'ting logvtlier wirli the other arbitr a liubi to do. \\ power ii. do wh.i! a> arbitrati i> \\\<'- d ()! lialio dlv C' itorri, leivus idlni'd to acting; toi-etber ail;itraf( was t!i' an If So tiiat it tiiei'e were a iiuesiii.n wlkther by law the .it all events (M.rraiii 1 irbitrator lor Oiitari b two commi. -loners iiavmg lieen appointed, llei ^fav folli'vvinir an arbitrator for Caind: the e\p|■cs^ion in the eom- lint.; out hi- diiti: s. Well, my Lord, those Majesty appointed on the 'JMnl tei'iiK' itter recitiiii;- tl ic Acts, 1, and Ins cumim.-sioii i.-, ar page o. Tl le are at iiionr • iih; 8c or Do by these presents nominate, constitute and appoint you, the rod John Ilaiuiltoii (iray, to be the one arbitiatoi- chosen by the (iovern- ment o*^ Canada in pursuance of and under the authority of the said oms bundled and fortysecuud section of the liritish North Ameiir.i Act, !>i07, and fi>r and on In-half ol" th(^ (io\ernment of Canada to arbitrate together w ith the ari>itrators eh(»seii by the (Jovermnonii of Ontai'io ;ind iii lIM I Ot;t iiirtii ;ii io Old ■IT-l^^ •-»» -V'""), >»:t.»v nnfytv-^riWB .f»«T,«w,?yir«y.i—-r j |i».i Mi "1l w;y »'yif,T«»»>( iryw^ wijjr- 1 ,i«,M|«r«n),wjM>MW>JM-9v>^;'.|»«>. ■ «^> ""•n- 11'RW».«« ^■iki^^tjKiiH /Wfiif^0^ii!i(^s?mfy^,f. ' Caurulu, the F")!)!!)!!!!!)!), that the Doiiiiiiioii liad an interest in tiie arldtration which it was iiiteiuled shonhl 1)C protected. Now, tny Lords, the commissioners havinjj;' l)een a|)pointcd, I suppose in con- sequence of t!ie necessity of preliminary enquiry, did not meet until tlie 3lst of Aiinii!?t, ISfiO, Their first meeting is found at paijje 2, line 35. "The said arl)itrators iiavina; taken upon theniselvcs the burden of the said arbitration held their first ineotini; in the committee room No. 8 of tlic Parliament Buildin;^s, House of Oontmons side, in the City of Ottawa, at noon, on the 31st day of Aui^ust, 1SG9." Tliere were present the three arbitrators, y^ry little was done except jirelimiiiary proceedings, and after some formal meetings upon various points we find at the 7th meeting on the 27th Octoivn-, at the foot of page 8, an order v.as made that "the counsel for the Provinces of Quebec and Ontario shall prepare and print their respective cases and communicate them to each other for such observations in response as the}' may deem iicocsaary." Now, my Lords, at the I2tii, l?ith and iith meetings, arguments of counsel wore heard as to the prit:eiplo on which the arbitrators should proceed, and then an investigation and u disi-u-.-ion tuok place l)Otwcon the commissioners until we come to the 19th meet- ing, o'l the 2Sth May, 1S70, which is at page 13. "-Tlie donourable Charles Dewey Day -ubnirtod the fullowina- iiropositioiis : — ■ 1. It is propd^ed that the relation of Upper and Lower Canada created by the l':ii..ii Act of ISlU, be regai'ded as an assoeiatlMii in the nature ot a universal '•j>ar-!!e:>!i!p'' which is well known to the Civil Law, and that the division and ailjii~riner.t of tlic -iL'irs and nssets under the Lritisli North America Act, 1SC7, be 'iiJi-ij 'icordiiig to the rules which govern in such associations, in so far II- :::!.'V can be made to ajtjjly. 2. It is ])ro]ioscd that the state of .1, of \:;'!i of tlio Provinees ot Tppcr and Lower Canada at the if tliC I'niuii, iii ISii, be taken into cnii?ideration by the arbitrators I view to cl'.ai'i:*' tiie Provinces of ()iit;irlo and (iuebec respectively 111.' ,1. iin; :t ur.e by rjipri' (Janida anil Lower Canada respectivflv at rlia* tiie ivniiiinier of the .-urp!u« debt (o.V('e>s of debt of the late ;ifter t-uch debts have 1. .'on I t!;C vaid I'rovinces. o. It i> prop '-cd rl^it the assets specified in the hedule to the Pritish Xurth / meiica Act. 1S07. and all other assets to ui' Caiiid;! over and above sf;2..''''",0"i'' t'ro!!i it i^iiiid charged to the res|H'rti\i' Pi'ovinccs) bo equally divni niiv tilul Witi; l wilii * tiia' 'i: Pr..-,>. (I("!iii;r berw... f(>;irn! hi' ilivided and adjusU'd under the au .lority oi that Act bo divided equally acci.-:di!ig to tlujir value''. That proposition was negatived, the other two arbit;:!- tor- vriting against it. So tlu; wliole three propo-itii'iis of the Honourable Cliarle; Dewey Day wei'eiejectcd. T!ic llonnurablc David Lewis Macphersou then submitted the following grounds of dissent to the propositions of the Honourable Charles Dewey Day, which were entered on the nn'nutes of the proceedings of the arbi- trators, viz : '■■], J)ccau^e in his opinion the Phi ji of ISII bctv>eon Upper Can- ada and Lov/er Canada was not anaU)gous to an oidinary association or partner- .t^hip between individuals, and that the rules of law apidicablc to the latter are not ajqilic.ible to a political Pnion alTocted by the authority of a par- liuiihTitary jjower between the two Pjovince>. 2. Pecanse in his opinion the arliirrators have no authority to iiKjuire into or consider the financial condition of I'pper C'anada and Lower Canatla respectively, anterior to or at the time of iiicir union in ISH with a view of rectifying, al tli;^ expense t>f Ontario, anv .i)wer and would inllict gro-s iniii.ulce on ()i,t;ii;o !•;■ imp i w^j; upon liiui, Pro\-iiir(; flrvi'u iom Irondis of ih': whole i-iu plu-> dcbf. tl.:' i- iii' cM'.'.^. of ;lio di'iil "d' till' lull' Pr.)S ince of Cniindii ovn and abow •"i'li:' - -y 'S'Mii»*r'fM'»»;-«f«(!ii«wiwyni-f.-.-^' 'J ;in,v V- »c (,»!Xi«J »*' I 00! M^l'V iDtl ^^mm^^^m^^'m^^m^'^^m^m^mw^^wwm I 500,000, or reduciiip^ ir to tiyurcs ami asswinliig the cxcesa of debt to bcj SI 0,500- 000 it would oast u pon Ontario the sum of S8,2o0,000 and upon QiieI)oc lonoiir- §2,250,000, 4. IJccause, in his opinion, while the propositions of the 11 able Charles Dewey Day profess to favor an equal division of the debts and assets, -the result of a division under them would be most unequal and unjust, iiuisniueh as Quebec would Ciiaxckllor: — Do you consider that wc should have anything to say to the merits of these difu;ient propositions ? Mk. Ekxivmiv: — No, my Lord; but I think your Lordships will find as you go on that you would like to know hew they did ])roceed. His reason \vas>, "'RecaJiso for the reasons already ussigneurpo>es now under their consideration Ipj-or and Luvrvr Canada imi.~t l)i; ji'gardcd as one. and the present division and adjustment bo liocided en grounds entirely iircspt'ctive of the position of either rpi'tT or Lower Canada at tiic lime of the TMiioii." He then submitted tlie i'ollowing pioposition, "Tiiat the division and adjnst- n vTil. of the surplus debt and a.-^.-ets, owned ounjointly by Ontario and Quebec, and enumerated in scheilulr. four of the 15ritish North America Act, 18G7, be o;.S'jd upon the origin of the debts, and tlu'.t: tl.e expenditure made in creating each of said assets be t.d» ' v i-.-yjf,;y»ya!-r.«.ja^ 'Ml i^: , ■;i: - >' iM^filmiiiJII»**iiiciwt,iAiB^^ MSxi ^i^ ,',iiisi«]i'i(.Ml tin: .-.tattiiieiits iii:nlo iiinl tin; |)i'i>>itiiiiissiil)iiiltt(:il ivsjxjctivclv hy iuul (Ml lic'Irilt" of tlie I'l'iiviiifos of ( )iit;u'ii> ;iii(l (JiUfln't'., uikI li:ivitiu lioai'J coiiiisel at luiiirtli tln-'it'iiiioii, do awar.I aiitl ailjiuigo as follows: "Ist. Tiiat the Imperial Act >v|" l'iii(;ii :!n.i ami 4tli, Victoria, (Jliaptcr 35, did not create in fact or id law Miiv ]iartiicr.-Iii[i iictwcuti I'piier and J.<»wer Canada, nor any pncli ulations as aiiso from a .-i;iiL- of co-part'icrsliip hotwecn individuals. 2i:'l. That the arbitia- tiirs have no po ..-cr or anthority to enter upon any enquiry into the relative tatc of the delits lUid eredit> of the Provinces of Uj>por and Lower Canada cs) eetively, ut the time of tlieir union in IS-il, into the Province of Canada. orci. Thar the dl/i-ion and adjustment hetweeu Ontario and Quebec of the y.irphis deht Ijcyond sG-J,5i)(',(>iiO, for which under the J 12th section of the l!. N. A. Act. IxiT, Ontario and (^nehec are conjointly liable to ('■anada, shall lie ha.^eil u\i l)(.c!i iii'.-iir:-; ': ii; ;!iccn.ati"n of an asset- for the common benefit of both Piiivinois ;iii'l >!iail i;(; so adjudged, such debt shall he divided and borne equally iivboth. It':, 'i'.'i.sr where the debt uiid..'r consideration .«lri!l not conic within the purview or 'l,'.- :'o;i;:!! .schedule, whether the same slrdl or shall not have left ;i'i a.~.=ct, K-!i;«i..i- .-liiil bij ii.ji t'l its origin under r!ie .same rule as in the last prei'edinu ■-'•'•ti'-i i.:.! tLrivn. .■>rli. That the assets enumerated in the fourth ?i.liOilu!e i 1 til." !'. N. A Act. i ■-•;7. and declared by tlte lloth .siH'tion to be the ^jirojieriy <'t 0:,?.>;; > ui.o (,;.! foriiniM t!,'> same ba-is. ('?Sow, 1 ea.ll your Lordships' Jiarti'iifi 'i', e-_;i ■•' .::y ;• i;ii-.) t'-'h. 'i'!i;it tiiat expenditure made by the creation of iiTicii lit' r!i';-..;.M ■--■.•!■ .-'ia'i b-' t.iken as riic value thereof, and where no asset has p','1 II Ifi't, ; In; ■■!;;)■ ;ih. '.'aiii .~!i:iil be r d;en as the debt ineui'reil, the arbitrators , a. i'li;' iio )■■■_';.• [■.■■;-:>:\ inio oi' a'lju.iieate iipon the policy or .advantaj^es of. '^•\pviiditiin 'i. •!.'.- i;ie;iriv>': bv aatiiority of, and passed upon by, I'arliament. V:!i. li i.-, ''i ■',■;.,;,; ..•.!..•: C'l ilia! in ac'-ordaeee with the above deci.slon, the li-()iiii-el for ii:i -i'! Pi'o\ iiic'c of (tiitario aiul (Juelice, i\o proe(;ed with their v.qieciiu! e i.-i.-. ' \ iv.ii' l.oi'd.liip? pticeive tii;it this is siuned by oidy two of tlio \ibitr,itois. (i!iy alio Maeolierio;!. They aay, subsequently «!) t!ie adjoii! i.i/enr. :e |"ie--!ed that the decision arrived at sboidd not be communi §Mt!il to >uii,-el M.'itii he could be heaid from in a lew days. Sultjeqiienlly, the Iloii- iiiabie- (.'i;M.r!(;s Dewey Day sent to the other two arbitrators, to be entered upon the |iii!iiiles of the proceedings of the arbitrators, his dissent from the foregoing judg- iiieiit ordeeicrioii. which is as follows :- f ni>.ii;.M of t!iL llontuiridjle Charli.^. Uewey Day to the foregoing (k,;!- lioii of the arbiiiatijis. '' The undei-.siiinod mbitnitor dissents from the fore- i;()iiig award and jiidginc'iit of the llonotirable D. L. Maepherson and the iliiiiii'aValile J. il. Gray, two of the arbitrators a])pointcr| tinder the 1'. N. A. i\ri, b'^'iV : .\r'. l'"c.msj the said award and judgment pmports to be feinali d on piMp*-!! i;.!is which in the opinion of the undersigned are erroneous ill ia't ami ii; l,iw. and inco)isi!:tent with the just 'rigiits of the Province o! (Jui bi;c. Jiid. Hc'iuse the lelatioii (d the Province^ of Cppcr and Lower ('.::;ada., cie,!'i-'! by ihe I'liio!) of 1 8 1 I . otight to be regaide.l as an as^o- $' 'I'l'i iii ill : 'ii.Mii'i' oi' ;■ Miiiveisa! i>ai'tne'.-!iip, ainj the lades for the. divlsiiaii and (liiast'iioii;. .if ■ I I- dill! . and as I'ls (d' l!ppe!- and Lower Can.ad.i under tb.e author % "i" I'la' ai'l A'', oii-li! to b;> tlio.-e wliie'i ^o\ei'n .■■■ni"!i a.-so.da.Hun, in so t:(r a.- il''\' ia;i Ih- i.i.idi- i'l ..pj'',\ ill liii: I I'l'ieiil ca^e. ord. lin'ms,. ||i,. sfaro of i'idebt- O''"'--- of I-.,-!, ,,' ill,' I "los Ilk i; - Iff i'ppii'and Lower Canada .it the I iiiie of the 1 1 1 • 9 1 10 j re > 1 li- ^ 11- (r. •0-1 le? bo. lis CO er •• 1 al ! ■ i H K ■' •. v*-'''y B -.- ■ ' \ i-ijMMi ^iwfm^hiM\ MMMM* ^iiiriiiitSiilSaiyii^i^^ ) Union of 1811 *>uj;lit to be taken ititu Cdnsiduiatinii l.j tlio arl)iti;itois with a viuw to charge the Provinces of Ontario anJ (Jiichec respectively with tlic debt dnc by each of the Province.^ of ITpper and Lower Canada at tliat tiine.and the remainder of che surplus (lelit of the late Pruvinee of (Viiiad.i ouglit tube diiially divided between the paid I'ruvinces of Ontario and (Quebec. Ith. Uecanse the assets speci- fied in schedule i and all other assets to be di'. i'led under the authority of the .,^.. -^ ,- ^ _ _ ._ , J , J-- -J., ,, they have authority and are bound by the j)riivisi(;.ns of the said Act, to inquire into the state of the debts and assets of the Niid J'jovinces." Then My r.ords mt the 5th July wo have the 20th meeting of the ar!)itraturs. In that wo find coininunicatcd to them from the (iovcniincnt of ws : "Copy of a report of a Conunittee "ot' tile Honourable the Kxecutive Council api)i'o\cd Iiy Jlis E\cell(;ncy the Licu- "tcuant (■iovernor-iii-Connoil, on the 0th day of June, 1870, No. 131. l.)n the "rC'iuiieiiients of the l). X. A. Act, 1807, respectively, the judgment of the arbi- tf 11,1 rn r,i ii *' ','.i,»,.,i . t • ' .I.J "trator-. the Ilonwuruble the Ti'easurer of the i'rovincc reports that it is the opin- )i!iccrs of the (.'rown that whcieas the 142nd section of the 1!. N. A. "ion of rhe Law Oi '■Act or IS'IT enacts that t!iC division and adjushneiit of the debts, credits, liabi- '•Jir'cs. j^ropcr'ics and assets of I'ppcr Canada and Lower Canada shall be rcferied "to the arbiTrajiicnt of three a/bitrators, it is e.-se)ifiai to ihe validi'yofany decision "to bi' aivcii by sueh arbitrators, that their judunieiit should be un miniously con- '■eurri.i in. Tic, theref.ire. recommends that a despatch be tra'isniitted to Ilis ''ENce'iL'noy tlio GovcTP.or (vencial, with tjif \ iew.- of this Government aiul "rc<|r,os:iuji; that lio judgiiunit of the >,iid .arbitnuuis \s-hich is not so uuaiiiiiiously "o.'icurred in, bo received." ipon (hat, at ]Ki;;e 10, line 10, it is stated, "after the reading of the iY'rcgoing j'api'rs ;in irregular di-cu.-siou took place between cuui'r.'l on hot!' sides, as to the ordei' of proceedings in which con.siderable time v.M- -j-cnt without any definite conclusion having bejii arrived at. The arbitra- tors then adjounr-il to meet again at the same 'ilace the ne.\t day at 11 o'clock », TM." Now we have what occurrid the ne.\t (].'.y. "The arbitrators met at the place of their hasi preceding meeting on Wednesday, the Gth day of Ji.ly, 1S70, pursuant to adjournment. All the arbitrators were present, as also all the i>artie,s for Ontario and Quebec respectively as were present at the last preceding meeting. The Honourable .1. IJillyard Cameron called upon the- arbitrators to pronounce their decision upon the points argued befoi .• them in the month of February, 1870, and npon which it was understood a judgment would be delivered at the present meeting. The JLonourable Mv. Irvi.ic demanded that before any decision on these [loints was delivered, coun.'^el on behalf of (,)eebec should be heard on the point of "unanimity" raised by the Government of Quebec. After hearing argument of counsel on both sides on this point, the arbitratyi'S delivered their o])inions6t"/v''.i- ////;. The Honourable (Jliarles OeweyDay was or le John Jfahiilton Gr.iy coiic'irrcil in dcc'-jidii \ the views o ,1 f th, il onou lable ( Il ii'h'-i Dewey Day that before the .-h'juld be heard on the (p'esiion 3 of unanimity. A majority dciilic i,' in favor o! the projjositioii of (^)nebec, the inmo'inced. Ilie ariiumeiit ol coP!!- Ri^auKCnl was Drucreded wiih. M. llitchie and Irvine were heard uii behalf l.>i lec, aM(. ] M. :■■ r. c ;UiKMM!i a'l' AV ood oil lieh'tl I o f Onr; rio ; and Mr. Tr wa;; m i M Jiciro m ]'c '^:^-:. 10 Tin: Lni;ii CiiAMKi.r.oi!:-— Wli.it was tli;if altout ? Mu. J'>i n.iamin: — Tlmt tln^y wmiM lieur tlu," ijucition t>f iitiaiiiiiiity arpiictl L'tii'v (U'liviiii;^ their jutlgiiioiit. ^[r. (Jaiiiciuii askod tliiMii to prococd to «lijlivor llieir jiitlLjiiiriit. Vour Lorilsliips will roiuoiiilior that it had boon sii^nod by two, iii^iinioiM. on mar (]no^>llu^ oi iiiiaiiiiiiuy iwsi. I Tlioii, \uy Loids, jit the 2itli mcotiii^, wliioli is at i)agc 2", uii the 0th July, |lii< iiii|)oitaiit pnK'oodiri^ tucik placo in relation to wliicli this (jnotstiutid liofore [•(.nil hoiilsliiijs liave now tinally arisen. ''The Honourable John llainiltou (Jray, [lie ail'itiatKr apjioiiited by the Doiiiinioii, then read the following opinion rcs- [icc'tiui; lh(! delisory of the judgment or deci!?ion of the aibitrators on the pointfj ln^iu!<] in the month of February last, as follows: Loi:i) Si:i.i;..'i:M:: — There had been an argument on the^uestiun of unanimity. — Yes. "^'oiir Lord-hips will sec that at the 23rd mooting ■ iOII'MliillH^' 'J '71111 JlilllLJllV/II ^'itl^j 111;. (lll/lLlillV^i ill'l7WIMl<~M ■!> IIIVJ |yv/lllMlM.^(l,LII< Ivad the f<)!!owi."jj upiiiiuu rc-pecting the delivery of the judgment vr dof;ision ilio ;ir!iiti'it;i:v "ii the points argued iii the month of Keltruaiy last, as follows :- III' iiiK Ar.i;in:\:'i: AriiUXTKii nv mik dumimon vI'ivkkn'mknt. "In (!v'-i ii'ig "M till |M»itit (if (UtTorenee between my two eolle.ignos. it is nee- V-'iU'v tu iv'.-'W ''I 'jtrtiiin fact-, la the argiuiients which tnok |»lace at Ottawa, 'ill I'L-bniiry !■.l^^, iii.'.iu Uie iinercnt uiodes for the adjustment. :iiid divi^^ion nf •f'lK/ ilcbiri and a.-iets relorred to us under the I42iul soetion uf the 15. N. A. Act, •t!i(. :aliit!.iriir; Wtio called npnii by the coiuisel for Ontario b> ilisposo of, in the •iiii:>t in.--ta!iL'i;. the important ijUCf-tion of ]>artnership raised by the oounsel for *(,)ii(.;hce. — Tiii.- was objeetcd to by *he iatter, and after cousidoraLion the arbitra- tors on the following ilay sustained the objection. The argu; lents wore then 'c'ontimied fur several days by the counsel on both sides, aniig:;e?ted by Ontario and (Jnebee, including the above ipicstior. «'ot partnership, were fully discussed, some of the members of the (lovernment J'ld' each of those provinces being ])resent each day ; and the arbitrators, at the 'close of the argument, were urgently j)rcssed by the coimscl on both sides to determine and declaic the mode uiuler which the division and adjustment sliould I'prnceed as preliminary to any further action, notwithstanding that the arbitra- I'tois had previnusly expressed their opinion that decisions on these preliminary *']Hii(its were not desii'able, but that it would be better to go on, enter fidly into I'tlie case on both sides, and decide ujion the whole as ultimately might be 'iloemcil right. In accordance with the wishes expressed both liy Ontario 'and (Quebec, and solely in accordance with these wishes, the arbitrators i'dld proceed to consider the ipiestious subuntted and the arguments, and after a Inn:; and laborious cousidtation extending over several days, held a!, Montreal in May last, eaiiic to a decision, but whicii decision was not unanimous, Tiiat diM;i>!iiii was by ilic lliiee aibitralurs ordered to be entered in (he nunn'c 'liDok and t'l I" CMinmnnie.iivd to ilie ciiim>el for the two )U'o\i;ict's r<.'s])ectivi:ly. At the sidi~'Nja(;nt, rcfjtie-t nf the arbitrator fur t^hiebcc, made (d the other tv.o ■ 11 . ■v^^f- '.'iri i ■■f > 4»>*.> m:^' '5ft Mi i . I: M II "arbltn'.tor? hcpai-iittily iiftcr tlioir iirljoiirninoiit on tlio 2^th iMnj l.ist, that cotrnnn- "nicutioii was clol.iycd for a sliort time, and was, on furtlior roqnc.>t, still further "(loiayed. The doni.sion was entered a=i directed. Al)ont tiic lOth June hist, the "arbitrators severally received from the CTOverntnent of Quebec a minute of "Council of that (iov(?rnmcnt expressing the opinion of the F/iw OfHccrs of that "Cfovornuient th.at it was essential to the validity of any decision by the arbitrators •'thnt their judgment should be unanimoiisly concurred in. The communication "of the decision arrived at on the "iSth ]\Iay last was therefore postponed until the "action uf the arbitrators could be determined on tlii;; point at 'heir meeting which '•was to take place at Montreal on the first Tuesday in July, though the arbitrator "for Ontario demanded that the counsel of both Governments shall have the "decision communicated to them in obedience to the order made in that behalf and "unanin:iously concni-red in by all the arbitrators. On the first day of the mooting "in July, at ^[ontrcal, th.T fact of tlie receipt of this communication from the "Government of (Quebec was announced. A demand was then made on behalf of "the Government of <\|uebcc that counsel should forthwith be heard on that point, "and ::her denial by the counsel for Ontario of the right of the Government of "Quibci? to iTiake any communication to the arbitrators which was not at tin; same "time inade to the counsel or Government of Ontario, aiul a demand made that a "decision nriived at in May last should be first declared, the question wa"- sult- "mitred, and the arbitrators decided by a majority that (Juebec should be heaid on "the p^'int vJ unanimity. After full argument, the arl)itratoi's adjourned until the "Tth, ai;d then furtlior adjourned until the Sth. At the meeting on the Sth "tlie aib'trut'ir a|ip..iiited liy the Dominion announced that there was a diU'oience "of opinion botv.Ton his colleagues. That the arbitra.tor for Quebec cxpri's>rd his "objecri.Mi tv) the anii.^uncoinent of the deci.-ion arrived at o?i tlm 2Sth Ma\ ln-t, "'o!' I'f ,i;]y other jucliniinary doci-ion heieafter, and roiti'ivited the views im the, ''im;r"iK'-y of such :i course already stated by l.im, but which course at the request '"of th': c.iunsel ou itotli sides had been departed from; furtlior adding his lieliof "that sr.'jli announcement wcmld tend to jirevent a harmonious conclusion. That "the arbitrator for Ontario, on the contraiy, conteiuled that at the rc(iuest of both "parties th(;y hiui ctiine to a decision ; that the decision, had already bi-eii com- "muni','atei.i uncili^'ially to both arbitrators to their re>prctive Governtnents ; i]\;-j, "those (Government.; bad a right to its announcement, and that it was the duty of "tiiB arbitrators tn make the communiciitiou pnniou.-ly orilered. That all elbnts to "produce an agreement belvvcen his colleagues had failed, ami that it wa.T there- "tore lu^ccj.sary for him to take twenty-four hours to con-^ider the course he shoidd "pursue. A discussion, as you are aware, arose on tuis statement, but resulted in "no ann'cabie arrangement, and J have now to decide. If this was a ]jrivate "matter there would 1)0 no dilllodty about it. I'arties having agreed to a reference, "and having requested a decision', whether interlocutory or final, m\ist take it, "nidess by ci'usent it is abandoned. The poitit imw to be considered is, whetlu;r "in an important public matter such as this arbitration between Ontaiio ami "Quebec, snfHcient grouiuls exist for a departure from the orditiary mode, I liave "exhausted every effort to bring about an agreenu;ntoii this point between my two "colleagiies, and have delayed giving any opiniitn until conqielled by the lufosslly "of the arbitration lu'ing eitliei'abandoncd or proceeded with. A week has elajised "in unavailing eflort.- to do so, and I am most reluelantly (Muupclled to (bcide. 1 "have to obcoive that the decision if theUSlh May la>.l is not linal. It is not lil<(> "an awaril of the arbitrators on the division aiiimenl. It is oidy an upiniou "of the majority of them as to the best ninde t(v i>i'o('eed in the division, !f in "workin;.'' it out it is found tu upei'ate unf.di'Iv. it is open to be reviewed :iiid re-eitid'.'d and sni'b ntl ler ;iiO'ie aduo led IS in: le hiiw n to leail l( I a [aire 'Jt dinilti'J liV th' arbilrat'ir bir (.hii'bee tl lat 111 iiriieeeiliiiij- under IV.- Ill nil '] »i'it::i; ■!&■;■' , $:^ 1 I ■••^ >; (ift*;'"e^'t' ■■ij; i ill' .yr l ^ ^V!^^ ' m|m ^ ^ 'g nfg >^■'<^^^^^ iff^f n^ ft>»' ' ^ 1. ■■.'•, •;i •III <•, '•] •fi-I ;i '111 I' ■ ,1.- ;'4)v .<'wi 'ivl *''lu'( H '-.-ti'l •at : l''iii I |''tli.; >•■!.. '■(.■ill '! ])i'f.- 1 loll'i' L'St'h )i:ll|i Mill i fitlltt fiirii tin;!', Ill'Jil '•t>ll 'n!ic "tic "liiii In. : i'l. •till' i'in|iili;. will iiocf.-.siiiily exjiiMu] itst/'f ii.Tj tin.- cniisiderjitioii of iiuioli lliat wnnlii be (■inliiiiciii uitiK;!' ilio vicv.' nf |i;ivnii. r,-lii]i mlvooa^cd liv hiinsolf ; l)iit it ,l,ii>- not iiilijiit tliC f.'.\i:-U-ii(.c lit' ;i jnirtiior>lii|) or limit the iiivcstiijiitioii to the .■iilf-j wlii'.'h ^^n-ivoni ;i paitin.rship. No apiiiicatinii has been miifle to liiivfi the iMiiiitter re-hcaii] or re ai'jziie.l, or any u'romid- taken, or alleged, to sot aside the de- I'cisioii, or any rca.-on assigned why it sliunh! not be proiionnccd at this meeting, s;ivo that one party doe? not \\'i>h it, and iliat its delivery may tend to prevent a I'lKinnonious conclusion. Jf both parties '.vonld assent to tliis there would be an f I'ud to the matter, for clearly every effort should be made to attain that end. The '•tliiid arbitrator uiidor.btedly has a discretion, !)ut the exercise of tliat discretion 'must bo on reasonable grounds. It shoidd not be the tiiero expression of an :ul)itrary will. One party demands die delivery of tlic decision at the meeting, rt of th idiich tl heard and the discussion ts to its being carried out. iced is frequently exercised J- in n..^....u.o ....^ ,i"-c,^ ■ ••■■- - '■" -..- .>.^ ....^.v-stsof the parties concerned J"will be prcuiO'cd — but is goiicrally by consent, and never against the will of one aSif the parries 'virl: Mit good cause shown. The decision in this case was coni- Tiiiiuiicated by b.iiii .'.rbifrators to tlieir rcsiioctive (rovcrnments unotHoially, and f roriunot see ariy ..'b^Ojtion to di.iing openly what each one has in that respect under- ^•taken to iU.< iii his individual capacity. AVlien the judgment is formally pro- 'iiounced, i: vrili :i;on be option;-.! n-ith eirl'er (iovernment to assign the grounds of 'uhjcction. aiid inoi'c for ,i ro-lieariiig or rescinding. No jtarty will go on with a 'rrlViunce or '•Iiave hoard i.no .leen nin-* de-- "(,hi"bec, bu- f ! '•til dei'-ide. a re:' 1 e.Minot HiiiJ ;! '"i.- not f'liie! '.',-:■. ilec'i.-'ii'n ;na ie 'vtiued literallv. '•at stake, the ; : '■ill iieieaS'iii';;..: a'.guuicat if ai'ter Loth parties liave agreed to the submission, and ;N lender it nuaat'iry the moment he learns the result. I have is to eoiier.r v.ifii the views expressed by the arbitrator for s :>ui:Iit ill ' .i';i f.ir soui'- 1 itional ground on which, if compelled ,: . ''tliat by ■ '•ilci-isinll I some arrive .-,i I'. ■e :':e deei-^ioii "ii the -JSth ^Jfay hist could be based. ■vil; inf'ic" any wrung on the party objecting. It jt' e::.juiiy, anil o]ieii to correction. Tlio iiiply in the light of a guide, to be con- ."pf: 1 *^l!at in view of the great intercuts cs will i.'iucee J wirliout tunhcr delay, n.nd that both will unite cite.-; a ]!;-■ 'i'-nibutiu;; by tlie mode I'ecommended, or failing i auroc, tlieitt'ore, with Mr. Mai'iilierson, that the :o aniiiaii; ?i:e deei-a.': [i is a nil.-: ;:. is ii'i i;\' ;^ !i-iw '■"■ e 11. ..•K 1 1 'lile, liUt ■ .-, -' i V fi bo ittlicr nii'i. lit oil the .Mav shoukl be formally announced to the (MU!i>el aii'l !'r'.'vi;!ces coneeiT.el." .Iheii it goes on : " After the foregoing ex- iic.--ion iif ijiiiiloii. the Iloiioiir.'ble C'havle- Dcwcn Day stated that he could no I'liiger act in riie arbitiatioii, a?? \\>: could i;ot agree in the decisinu arrived at on the L'Sth .\\;\y. atnl ;hit he had iheri.l'nre, that morning, placed his resignation in the hands uf" rlie OoveiiiiiioMi of < ji'.ebec. lie rhcreuiioii handed to Messrs. j^racplier- f-Dii and Gray a written notice '.■) that otT'ect. and withdrew. Air. Chauvcau then 'i stated that hN ('overnnient had reeiMvcd tlic iroiiourable Charles Dewey Day'8 resigiKiliou. ( )ii rhe mntion e.f Mr. Canieron the decision of the 2Sth Jlay was fiiiiiially lead and proiiounced. The Honourable Charles Dewey Day's dissent ; t!a.!eti> was also reail. Mr. Iiitehie then ]U'escnted and reipiested the following ; iii'jiiiiiraiiihim t.i be tlie'l : ''Tin' mider.-i::iied, of coun-;ol tor the I'rovince of \ ''i^ii'Iiec. hereby reS|iectfiil!y rrpie-cnts thar the ironourable John Hamilton (iray, 'Mill! arbitrator appointed by the < lovcriimcnt of Canada, undiM' the provisions of "tliC 15..N.A. Ad. \^>>~, ha< becime and ih'W is di^ipralilied to act as arbitrator, iii- ''a-inucb ii- tlte -aid lIoi,.,iir;dile dohn Jlaii!'Una ( iray is now, and fora consid(;rable "lime pa>t lias boeii a resideiii of Cntaiio, and jirays that all iiroceeding- upon ''lliis uibitni'Ioi: be staved until the (iovernmeiit of Canada shall have appointed • • ,i,,l,- ,n .iiii.. 1 ...i.!t...b.... ;,, (I ,, ,,i.w ,, I t.,.,,t ..r fiw, II 1.1,. I..1.,, 1 1.,...; 1 1..,. IlliV jilalitied arbitrator in the place and 'liiay. -o disijiialilied as al'oiv-aid." N'ai if the Honourable .iohii Hamilton ' 9 if f ^ffl ^viii)tfr»ti>iriis(wr>'^''r'r'^ ^''y*y y ?'W> ?. ' ' '* y<'¥ ' * ''i'y'." ■'-'m^M^''^'-':^ ' i Tliat point as tn losicleiicc Imvin^ Itcoii iiuulo in tlie caso ia Ciinady., 1 shall not argiu! it at all. I shall leave it to your Lor;lsIiips to ileal witii it as yoti think proper under the circ:iinotiinces. For myself I do not propose to base any part of my arijument upon this point. Sir M. E. Smith: -It a])pcars he came to reside at Ontario for tlie purpose of the arhitration. Mk. I^kn'jamin: — That is. the statement at the top of pa having been duly posted, and i.^^ an follows: '• Toronto, July 12th, 1S70— Dear Sir, — We beg to notify you that wc '".shall meet at the St. l-awrence Hall Hotel, in Montreal, on Thursday, the 21st ■instant, at 2 o'clock in the afternoon, to proceed v,-ith the arbitrationl)etween ''J' >c .saiue 'Ontario and Quebec, under 15. N. A. Act, 1SG7. We are, dear sir, youi-s ve "truly, 1). ]j. Macpherson. J. A. Gray, arbitrat 01-; .simnar iu)ticc at tl time was sent to Mr.. liitclue, as coimsel for (Quebec, Mhich lie admitted iui had received. Mt. Cameron fiien cidled tor the delivery of the judgment of thearbi H trators on tiie i[iiestion of unanimity, which had i)een sig,iK'd r)efore lliem at a previous meeting in IMontreal. The arbitrators then stated that they bad sevc^rally receive* 1 fi •om tn the ( lovernmenL o r (.)u ehe'c a communication, wludi was i ead. ;ini IS as 'Si I', lollow.- II i'rovince of (Jiiebec, Si>eretary's ( )lliee. (Quebec, lOlli duly. IS7"'-- iuve (lie hoiii'V |> inf. irni voii that I lis J'^xce lei'.e.y tlu'. I. leiitenaiitGoveiiior \ i m r: # • ■ t- pe>.^,t' m , 1 .1 . .1 ffl i ^%\. I' A . i . i'i i i ji i fujipjii^pit iii yj^.i^yi I i ^ . I I ii 'i*^ of r bvl o!(; aiiu IttVL'l olir.n iMoiit M) Iv lit t. ?liV 1; airbi';- 11 lias Ih'I'ii pleased to !icco))t the re :i;iiat!oii of ti'C llonourahlc diaries Dewey Day, «lir ;iihitratorof tlic I'roviiice i-i' (iueltcf, iinile.' the ]42iitl seetioii of the B. X. A. Let, ISfiT, and reatentof revi;cation to' lif r ^fajcsty withdrawing from Mr. Day all his power, " Yictori;., by the Grace ^ God,'' and so forth, " AVhereas in and by our certain Letters Patent." ■ LiiRii SrLr,ORNK: — I suppose it is sufKcicnt in form. Mi;. Bex.i amin: — Yes. '"We have been pleased to determine our Royal will l^id pleasure in relation to our said Letters Patent. Now know ye that we do l^rebv cancel, revoke and make void the said Letters Patent, and do hereby dis- "laruc tliL' s;iid CIia!''.i'j Dc-woy Day from the ollice of arbiriator of the (iuvern- jeiit of Qnebec afortsaid,'' tiion, my Lords, thenceforward the proceedings took lace before tin- f.rliitrators aloiio. Sill ^I. E. S:>!rni :— -T think notice was always given, was it not ? Ishi. Pf:^•.(A^;!^ : — Xo, up to a certain ])oint it was given and then notice was lunger given. L")i;r) SKr.EOENi- : - Is it d.'niud on the other sidt- that tlio authority of ]^[r, Mv was efiectuaiiy ;-.'Vokcd '. Ml;. 1)!;n.'.\>!i.v : — ^'es, rli;it is n]]c of Ihc |i.)ints — they do nut deiiy tin- form, lit rhey s.ay tb.-iv.. vas no power in i!ie Crown. TiiK L^iKo CaAM i-i,i.ok: — It thoiv wa- a power, 1 do not .■^llppo.^e they would tiiv iliut it •>ra- '.■\.-;ei»f-d. Till-: AtT'ikm vGi;.N;;i;A.r, ; — Oh. no, niy Lord-if tb.cr(! w;i- a power— what |c :;.,' i^ that -;in.ro wa-i no jiowvi'. l.di;!) Sk!.i;vv:nk : -Accordiiii;' to t!ie lonns of the ap])ointiii(iit it was clearly ^Vui.iSii.', Imty.".; siy to tint cx'onr t:j Si-.M;ni:.\-F : — Thcv '.■ '10 in fact a)>pointi'd l)y an instrument which gave loni an authority, ''during plfa-iiii'.'' ^'uii say those words are to be rejected. Tur A'lTuii.M'vCrKNEKAi, : — Yos. "What I Contend !s tint it depends on tlie et if I'arliameiit •;';d not on the form of appointment. Loiin SKr.nouNi: ; — That there is a siiHicient appointment rejecting those Olds because not aulhorized !)y the Act of Parliament. Tin; Ai roK.'.'Ky-Gi'.Ni.iAi. : — Yes, my r.ord. Loitn yi:i.i'.oi;Nv; : - Tiien this point .about notice may be material. Mu. Pknm \Mi,N :--Ycs, I uill give your I.ord^hips^ the date \\c will come to piv-i'iitly. I may state to your Lordsliip that the last ilate .it whii;!i any notice as given is, I think, tlio b\\\ August, and there were a largo number of meetings terwards. It is at the bottom of page 'iO. There was a notice to him lo l)e rcMMit on the .'tli August, and then lie wa-. present, I think, on the 5th, but aftur f! Titli thiic is no indication of any notice ol the proct'e(lin;,'s mcr having bciMt iveii to him, bill tl;e_> ))ro('c!ed as if he had made up liir- mind not to come and it as !M)t wortii ■.vhili- to let him know. Now, my Lords, at pa^e 9.ii'>, after having Mibiniftcd to the arbitratoi.-j tlic at' lit of till' d'uwu !c^ .i!<^ •N„ l»■'"e,tr^•tt.ylK^\ 16 that lie considered the arbitration dctcniiiiiod and that ho and Mr. Ritchie would withdraw from all further proceedinifs. The AttoMiey-(Teneral of Ontario and Mr. Cameron stated that they considered the arbitration in full force and in no way affected by the ret-ij^nation of the llonoural)Ic Charles Dewey Day or the revocation of his authority ami that tlicy were rea Cii.VNCKt.i.'M: : — Is it material to read this now ? .Mr.. B.K.NMAMtN : — I do nut know that it is, e.xcopl that there is a passage or two and one or two authorities referred to. TiiK Loru> Cham ki.i.oj: : — If you thiidx' the authorities are material, read it. Mk. ]]en.)AM[.v :— Tlie ground of hi.s decision is, he says at the lop of page 27: '* In matters of private reference the law is plain that utdess the terms of the su!inr.:-sion j>rovide that a majority may rule, all must agree in the award or it would no: be biriding. The impracticability in |irivate affairs of working out an arbitration of unanimiry so as essential led to the ailoption, in almost all cases of snbnii;S!on, ot the rnajority clause or the alternative provision of an umpire so essential to the siieoessfn! eondncting of an arbitration, — has this become that in ordinary form of aibitratiwii bonds or of rules of referonee one of those clauses is almo?t always found in^erti'd without such clause in private arbitration, it isadmittcd unanir. ity is requisite. The point now is, does the same rule apply to puldic references or arbitrations ' to which class it is conceded the present enquiry belongs. The lli'nd section of the 1?. X. A. Act, 1S07, under which the arbitration it> held, coritairniig no such clause, Mr. Irvine, tin; Solicitor General for Quebec, has j)roperly narrowed the question to this point. Mr. Ritchie, in his argument for Quebec, cited Caldwell an Arbitration, p. '202, to pi'ove that undoubted poi?ition as to private institutions. In the iu»te to that page by the al)lo American editor who republished the work in th I'liited States, we tind the following remark : — "There is a wide distinction to be observed l)etween the case of a power conferred for a public purpose and an authority of a private nature. In the latter case, if the authority is conferred on several per.son.s it must l)c jointly exercised, while in the former it may be occasioned by a majority.'' I tliiidc, on I'cfercnce to the cases, your ].,ordships will lind how greatly mistaken that gentleman is in his application of some of the cases— he mi.-aindei'stands the decision of some of the cases. I'ur- ther on, at p.age 204, ho .«ays : "That referees appointed under a statute must all meet and hear the pirties, Imt the decision of the majority will lie bindin'v-fl.«l* «a»ia»*» '■m^^rmi^ 10 iiii''Iit nialtion lias been strictly decided. I am, however, satisiied that as a submission to aibitrators is a delegation of power for a mere private j)urposG, it is neces?arv that all the arbitrators should concur in the award unless it is otherwise i)rovided by t'.ie parties. In matters of public concern a ditlerent rule seems to ])'evail, there the voice" of the majority shall govern." Then he (|notcs O'riniUi/ ?'.s-. Jhiikcr and one or two otlier cases to which 1 shall call your Liud^liips' attention in a moment if it be necessary to show that thuy have no Hurt of reference to a case like the present ami that those icfer to the proceedings of quaai corporations, sucli bodies as Jiisticis of ihe Peace, SiK li. V. Coi.i,u:k : — Gi'indly vs. Jiatier was a case as to trials of leather. ■Mr.. B!:n.!Ami\ : — Yes. aiid the (Jonrt held that all must be present and try. Kvei'v Jit:1c;.' .-aid that all must try though the decisiun of a majority might iroveri! . The unaniimius decision of the .ludges in that case was that all must be prc.-cnt. Then, my Loid?, i ask your Lordships' ])ermission to load this judgment at the font (. t ] age '2S, l.ccr.ure ] am going to found one of my arguuients in the case uiion the pa?>ago at the fc^ot of that judgment; "'To work out the reasoning trf the cor.i!S'ji of (^juebcc to its legitimate conclusion would place absolute power i!i tliC hai.di A the tiiird .t> D(:.niiiiion arbitiator. I have sup]iused that on points 0!i which Onti.ri-) aiid (juebee were agreed it was my duty at once to assert and that under sv.vh cirrum-tanee? wh.ether I ditfered or not was of no eon.^equence, ))Ut r.? tlie iuiv:ers of al! the arbitrator.- must be co-eipial if uiuniimity is essential, 1 might, bv t-'niply di^:ij:!'(.eiiig. pievent an award even when both Ontario and «^i;oUi^, V..-J jiartic-i iiitfre.-red, had agreed upon it. Such a pu.-ition is untenable." It apiiCiii's to me, my l.'id-. that there lies the foundation of all the mibtakes tliat have beiMi made in tlie <.ai!M!, the belief of ]\lr. ject i.i d:,-pute. 'J'iiis vit-w that he had no light b) dissent if the other two absented is a eivar mistake as to his position and ]iowers. lie says, '• 1 have supported that oa points un which ()ntario and (Jueljcc were agreed it was my duty at once to assent,'' and not to bring his mind to bear on the subject at all. Well, my Lords, I will call your Lordships' altentiun simply tu tliis, that at the '27il; meeting, vvhich is at the foot of j)age 2S, the arbiiiators met, only two met, no one ajipeared on btlialf of Quebtc JMr. Cameron stated that he wislied an adjournmeii*' until 2 o'clock p.m. The a'bitrators adjourned accordingly and at 2 o'clock p.m. resumed their .-itting when Mi'. Cameron j)rocced' d on th.c j)art of Onbirio to submit to and discuss before the arbitrators tlio respective debt of Ohtario and (Jiiebee for local purposes, with the view of bringing in the debts in both Provinces within the jtrineiple of their decision. After ])rogres5 made the arbitrators adjomnul until 10 o'clock the next day. Then, my Lords, on the 2Sth nice'ing, which was on the 2ord July, they met again and pjocecded (.ijia/ic^ nol.(id}"jiie.-'i nt on behaif of (^)iiebcc. and ihcn this occurred, tlie attempt was niade on behidf of (^I'.u bcc to stop the ])roceedings from going on in the ali?e;u'e of any rcp'.e-ontation on her jiart liy a [irohibitiou, anJ the |)roceein;igs for the pidhiiiition failed becaue they were not within the jurisdiction. The. alft'iiipt tailed, liut the pKiliibitiuti is applied bir at |iage 29. Your I.ord.'-hips will find the (^•.■i^il.)l•. npiiTi it at ] age ''r.^^lS:ili.nj'^^jll^^^^-:tft»-f!^S3S^flf/'ll^ ysf9fn^>'^frf'mm.'^ vv^iji^ *t.-l'. ^|*».'f ■ -•^Si;'''^:? m teft*iiiiti>, at It! o'elucic, iiuun. to i>i(iccf.d v, itli the said aibitiation, and they diivctciJ tliat dno notice of tlie time an! [ilaci! nf hi.ch Mieeting .^liould hn ii^ivon to the Iliiiininable Charle:< Dewey Day, ".-o that th 'V are t^till trivin^ notice to Mr. Day and Mr. liiteliie. the Couii.-el for (Jiiul>ei-, after the revucation, con.'jider- inj; it, 1 sinppose, to be null. At page -'52 your Lord^ihips will lind the next attempt of (Juebec to put ;i stop to the proeeetliiiii^ wa.'? biouglit befo'e the arbitrators on the 4th Autrnst, on tlieir iOth meeting." ^Fr. Cameron produecd .i notice \vlii(;li he stated lie had personaily po.sted to tin; llornjuiable Chaiie.s Dewey Day. to the IJon- ourah'e Creorgu Irvine, Si.>licitor (ieneral for (Juehee, and to T. W. llitdiie, K.-;(j., CouiLsel for (.juelicc, which notice i.> ^- follow ;.: -"In the matter of tlic urbitraliun between the J'rovinces of (.Quebec and Ontarii tlie ahuvu matter have adjourneti until the -ii! at (),-U('(de Hall, Toronto, at 12 o'clock, noon, ani I. The undersigned, the arbitratoi.s in I day i.if Aiiguit, lS7o, then to meet to proceed with the iirbitration.'' Vour Li.'r.'^hiiis there see od the ii.'5rd didy notice to Mr Day for the meeting of the 4lh A- gust.and this is riie meetingof the 4l:i August. Then the llonoU);d)le .lohn llauii'toii Gray reported that after the adjoiu'iiment at ^luntre.il, on the ii.'»rd day of July List jia-.t, just befoi'c le.iving ?i[ontreal by tlio evening train he was servi.'i] by a liai'itT or SlierilFs ()!iii*ei- by a wiit of i/ko n-crrtnilo to show cause by what uutijoi'ity lie exerc^T-evl the i.tlio ol an arbitrator, he having, it was said. become a resident of OMtiri", 'i'lii' J'etitioM and .\ilidavit.s in su])port th(!i'<'of alleL'ed ii.tr nh'a that !oi- more than li year thuii l:i>' ]i:i>t the said John Hamilton (.iray liad bcuii and tlieri •^v.!- a i'f>ident in Ontaiio." there i.-' the stateniL-nt, "'J'lie ai'bi'rators to atti/nd .n belnlf of Que bee. (.xiii'e.-sei 1 -th 'I'lieti at the top of J)age .„j Ml hour, and no (jiic appearing leii' (.!i'>ire tti the ('oun.-elfor Ontario to hear aru'iimcnts ".rioii the subject of the jurisdiction i.d' the Superior Courts uf Justice \ty the arbitration, whcre- v;i It ox y>v .liibit loi; to rr-rrai:i them troii up. ^r■. ( imeron prc'iTiii."! I ]>nH'ueiUn^ vtii .\fler w! o ai'.;ne lue nue-i lon. ) the :u'biti\ au'i.iuinca un til ne.\t dav at i'J o'cltick, noon, -o mutt rliL ;ame )iace. 'J' oil;; ii.'n tile wi'it of 'ji/e:iudry, and then .ve have the statement at pages M4 ,in I '•]'<, by Mi. G"ay, of the circum- I'tances of his resident. nni. V liai)s. m a III iei'c tl le pre.) ceed it): b.r ])roliibit;on against jA>rd Pen/aiice, in wliich it was held that his judgment was null beo.iust lie sat on the wrong side of the river, iuit I do not make that point. Sii: James W. Coi.n ii.i : — lie v,ould be equally v.roiig if he .sat on the other side of th.o river. LoKii SEr.uoKM: :— The curious thing is it was ijua.shed, not because ho was not within the jurisdiction, buf becau-e there was no evidence that the defendant had, since he had established his residence and domicilo at C)ttawa, exercised or attempted. to exercise the functioiis of arbitraf M li!;x.i.\Mix :■ -Witl iin till' limit.-3 of the Province of (.)iiebec in si icli a manner as to warrant tlie intervention and control of the Superior Court for Tower Cana ila. 'j'hat th Well, tlien, on t was tlie ' le rroi )tl md he -was not within their jurisdiction. mectiui 'n le arbitrato: 1 or s >tati .\UL;'iist. at iiace ;itl. vuur th th .oi'iisliips liave the ..AMU )imon ey wore r'ady to deliver this u| U|ton the ijiu-stion of the autlioi'ity and power of ihi.- Snpoiior CourtB of (.Jueliei,: ill yi.'ur Lorilships' to reS'iMiM them, and then t'ley gave tlii'ir opminii. I v,■|^ll attention lo tic oj union I if .M r Mai'iJifi'son. at '.», line 1.'). Ik t lovornuii ■i.t ihe r ilM'e (iiu am •av.- l.'d I have Jia' il'.ir notice Ihal th I- [iir-onl iiMTJiiiLi V I'i iii'bitiator apjioiii lid b.' iiold i'or tlu^ luu'i Tl 1\" ilu'lli irocvedmr' ^> I'l' on- me. That IS th> ic arO! lor t' And ^Ir. (i itoi- thi.'ieti ir.' t' Iiroceeo i-av avo -.1 ih.iip,- ;oul thai it would be conipi'teiii ill aceoi'ilanee willi well established rule.."' t b IIS I.. Million thai thi'V were not iMiind lo act ill .ill Im pus J hh U I Ii 5';. it A? i;i= m :!.;5 M U mi i^S ■4 h.i'. ^ \'^*-7imv ««^«f»';s?»^»ifn.Vi;«.r;«i#tJ.»5ri7<»,^rT>?5»T'5^ .Vtfj.-?^; IS I,(m;I) lM.i,i;ui;.\i: -II I'wdii,'- it ;ip]u'ai- that ih:\l \va.- tlie la.st notice ' i lluui^Iit tlic last iiotu'o i-atlicr li-iuls tu tnu fontrarv c'iiK'lii>i(,iri. Si!i RiiijiiiM' !*. ('01.1.11:1;: •• .Notice i;^ imw i,'ivuii ii(it:("-' ii aii'i .Mk. l)KN.i.\:'.ii.s' : — I am unin^' tu call y"ur J^ordsliijiri' atteiitioii nuw to tlie la-t t the tojt of ))a;ji,e 4-_' Tlie t'olhiwiti-i' oi(K:r wa.s then road : "Tliat the t:atoi'!> do ad jiiiirii until the 17th in.-^tant. then to meet at t).<;.;oode Hail, at 2 ) HI., and jneceed j)eie!ii])toiil_v witii liie arliiti'a'ion and tliat notice thereof l;c j.tcivcd on the Goverunujnt and Conn^el ot (JiHjhec and on the llonowrahle Charles pi'Wi'V Day." TIk'H jn.st lie!o\.' von have the meetitii;' -appear to meet on the IT'h nl' Anuu>t. " Ml. Cameron prtidnccd a notice, iliily endorsed i)\' liinuself, as lliavin:,' po.sted e<.)pit.s thereol' to the Iluiioiirable Charles Dewey Day,'* and so on, '•and !:tated tliat no answer Iiad heeii received." That is the notice (d' the r>th of AiiLTiist, ISTii. It is dated at the date of the previous .meetiii!:;, telling- Air. JJay It'.iat they would pioceed on that [Ks W. ('oi.vii.i; :---Tliat they woiihl proceed on the ITtii. Mi:. I'lKN.'.SMix : — Ve:», and this ^jj thi; ITtli when the notice is produced. Louii ShLi;o!;.SK: — Does it appear as a fact thai tliere was a .subsecjnent [notice ; M tlOII to 11. !i:n.i\-:.\ : — I will .-how ymir I.ord.-lii]) e.vaelly what there was in re!a- Tliv-'ie )- a loiiLT series oi meotiii::,s of the two arhitratois. '■}■ TiiK L IhUice ; .!) ( 1; WOKI.I.cl: \( o nirther re ferei ice IS ev ,er made to (Jneliec or l.oKP Si.!.!, .:;v: : — Then i^ <\o'< iiof ap|>ear (hat there was any subse(]ucnt jiKnic.'. ih^r tii.u ;: .!i>es apju-'ai' 'hat rliefe was not. J Mi;. r.i..N.'.\?-;,.\ :-(,»tii'.' -■. 8 l."!;i> Si.i.i;'. (;>.;■, :- Thi- ^- a -;■'■(■;. d ei~e ; (iii:.',lit imt the first iv iiave been ijtat'd, if it is !;i:.;ei ial. that i;,t;i- wa- no - i!isr(jiiont notice '. i .Mi;. C:..\.:.\'i;\ : ■ Ve;i !:e.i-r -'arc a lu'L-aiive in a sp.i'ial (•a>e. If there had ^li'iii ,-ii''-.,ii;:e;if. 1 .'ti/e i' v..'i;'d ;i;ivij licfii Inr iiie utlu-r .~ide |o have stateil it. I Itliiii'- y.iii tiev'.r ••..■■ a i.e^;' i-i^e ;:: a. sieeial eat^e. I tliiiil;th,if is alway.s the rule I l,'>!:i. Si:i !;. :.-;r .-I am a.-i..iii>In'd tn hear yon say !ii;it, W'lrit int .'..• 1!!:, :e in th • ab>.'nct id' '.he statement '. is:- 'I'ia' .Ii;i|;;!-- !,avL' nan-e than oiici; .-iiun'csted thai that wa- [ //,;. /■/ /((•( 1 i.- ti' r Mi;. !'.!N.i |ii'.' 'lie [Hiij.er !.;M-!e of .:ta;;i!_:- li.e ease, !■> ';;'i a neuative, Imt thai yon .-dii'iild ' Ici liiMse wli.i -ra;-.; the atlli'n:."i'. c state ih' ;,u-i. 1 do not .-ay ii is rn.'Ver done. TiiK A i'!m;m '.-(.iK.m:!; \'. . 1 mi.:.;ht )HM!it out to yniir Li'iihships that there :v ,1 ;:re; i'i.;:i\ i:i. j,'atlv>; .-la'cieents in tlii.^ i.a-e. l.oKii i:Kr.n i!:xi: : N'» dtuiht; I ni.'ver .-;ivv a ease in which there were not. Tim: Ar!i'i:v;:v-( Ifvia; \i. :— It is eoiL-tantlv st;it<'d, •"no one api>eaied on bc- [half of (iiiebec." .Mil. J>K.N.i.\.\ii.N : -Those ar.t the minute.-, and the iniiiiite.-i imist s|)cak for jtiioinselve.s. '\m l.onn Si;i.i',mi:m.; : - Vo;i are ai;.tuini;' that we oiinht lo intend that there was ; no notice, seeing tliat upti.ithis point imtice appears on thi- iaci'of the proceed in jis, .and since that point it does not. Mi; III .N.I \Mi.\ ; -Ves, that wnnld h.' the ar^iinunt, oi' e.mrse. Tiiose aie Jthr niiimtes a.- tiny are I'onnlintle' ii^oks nf the arbitia oi.s. 1 will call yoiir Sl.'jrdship's attei'ii'iii to tle'iii. 'I'liis i.^ tin! last occasion on which we see iiny such Itiiitirr, and ] think your l,ordshi]is will iiilV'r that there wa- 110 further notice l>v '|wha! wi' ar' tiirw cotuino- to. I am imw at the tnp of pa;;'c IJ. Until meeting. '" If lUa- 'i|c|i"('d that iMticc be ■•,i\rii In appiiir at the .'il-' meetili;;', on the ITlh .\iii',ii.-'." Vniir 1 ord-hip; will M'l' nil the IVlh .Auliii l.llie^il.l nicetin^;.!, line '..'". la iM.'iri' dated the ."iih .AiiiMi-t. whieli wa,; addressed to .Mr, Day, ih.al liie arbit' .- |t"::- .wiMiM :!,ii I'll, ,.|| ihi' 1 vt !, \ m-ii-i. ^^SMyr^>i»».t; »iM iW i|y » f i y ; j, <-ry«y»tT;fy(j| ^ ■ ■v\i"- y^^m.. irr;.:n IsaJ '■ >H-- r*V' ■ ^ i protest t( tli(! ISth (L'(liii.'4 111 CDMiiiiiini i! (losfputc tla> subje to i)C I'CiU li.'ivc the (ioncnil, lihcr^on ' my duty fieiicia! a ;i(lo|Uc(J lj for the P- lUCllt uf t lu'oii recc'i OHiUva, 1 ;iil:i : '• Si: to yon hci aiit-Ciitvei' lloMoiir.ib tliat: yuu [.. ut Ontiiriii t!i" procfe aio iiutiflui vf the ai'iii i- tllO |il'(.)C' AVoll ; I'lMcet-iliiii:- till! uiiiiiiii iiiiit,' to tlio uo!o prefer AiidirorGt f\ icionco. t.'viileiu'.e, a oil hclialt o 2!)t|i Au^n- oiitli Angus iiyrcou upoi '•Ai'ilslii|is' attention. •' 'I'lic arliitr.itotv. met on tlie IStli of Aii;jciii?t : present, the sixmo iPi'lnitors iind |inrtio^ as nt the last pre- cediii.'^ ineetinjjj. The nrhitrators stated tliat they Iiad tliat morning leceived a ponuniinicatii.'ii from the lender Seciotary of State at (Utiuva, enelosiiii; a copy of a despatch from the l.icntejiaiit-(i>)veriior of Qnc!)ce to the (Tovernor-Gencnil on the subject of the })rocee(lings of the arbitrators, wliicli documents w<.'.re ordered ti) be read and entered upon the minutes of tlie proceed ii)!i;s, and are as follows:'' I be^in at tlie lower one, which is the liist in date : "(^uelieo, 8th August, Sir, I have the honour to transmit for the information of His Excellency the (iovernor- (icncral, copy of a document signed by the ironourabie Messrs. Crray and Mac- jiherson which has been received I)y the Secretary of tiiis Province. I deem it my duty at the .';amc tiii'C to call the attention uf llis Kxcclloncy tlio Governor- (ienera! and of the Federal (Toveriiinent 'o the unjust and illegal course jointly adopted b\ the arbitrator appointed by the Federal Government and the arbitrator for (lie Province of Ontario, and rcspecl fully to rc transmit to you hei'owirh copy of a protest received by His Kxcellcncy from tlie Lieuten lUit-Governor of the Province of (Quebec against the course which you and the Honourable ]t.;vid J.owis Macpherson have notified the (io^-(M'nor of that Province thar yitu propo.-od taking in the matter of the arbitiatinu between the Provinces ut Ontario ami (,>uebec." The d'cuiin'iit referred to is that set oul ■(■■■/•hatlm \n tji" proceeding- "f the ITth Auu'U-^t, tlie oiu; or the previuus page on v.hieh they aie notified. •• The nnder.>igneii will procei^d v.'illi the eon;.ldeiation of the matter of the ai'birn;ti')n 'm! the day iind at the ])lace above named, peremptorily.'' That is the pr(jcecding '>f the 5th August. "Well Ui'W. m;. I.iuls, ti'om that time foi-th we iiml the arbitrators regularly |ii'.K.'eeiliiig fV,' ji.ij't,_ ; v,-e tind no oiU! appearing on bohalf of (^)uebec,. a:- stiited on liie minii'o-. i'he spi eial ca^e simpiy copies from the minutes, and \'\\m\ begin- ning to the I r.d. after th.it date it is eonstantly stated that tln^ two arbitrators alone weie present, ;i!id that they proceeded e,i' ]>arte', they subpicnaed Mr. l/mgton, the Auditor General lo; tiie I)oi'iinit, your Lordsliijis will find, "adjouriUHl to the iie.xt day," iliUli August ; '"adjourned to the next day," Isf September; met for consultation, aureeu upon the substance of the award ; initiated tlie dra.ftof tho terms thereof. "Adjourned until next day (to-morrow), arbitrators met and discussed the form of the award," and then on Saturday, September 3rd, ''arbilrators met, reexamined the award, and llnally completed and exeentcd the same in the presence of dhristopher Itobinsoii, Fsquire, of Toronto, l?arrister-at Liiw, and Mr. Frederick I'inch, of the same place, Law Stationer." 'i'he same having been excH'tited by a Majority only, vi>, ; Py the Honourable J. II. Gray and the ilonmirable ]). J^. Macipherson ; the Honoiuabli' (Miarles Dewey Day not iniing present or having attended the nu'ctiiigs of the arbitrators since the withdrawal in .Inly last (IS70), .■; \'. liicli awaril is as lollows: !j' Slit P..\i;.\i:-4 Pi:.\(deiv :■ There was an adjournnn iit of every meeting, was .j, llieie not ? jii Mii. IIk.s.iamin ■ They ad jiurned every day. i'lach mei'lingwas adjourned '.i to tlie next ila_\, and there is mi trace whati'Ver ol any I'otilieatioii to Mr. Day of !■ the adiourmiieiil, \.. •lih d l^'^! mm w>.. 'W' !■ ' >i (;i^ '''WJ'!vypi^BPf<^Trtiy?BB- w ^^ I I ^ vi mi ^smv "t: »v.^ ■«r>w,fipyji(awjwi»,^^ T'fvj.rrn^^i^^'S^wwpi.. ;1 I ■'•^■^»'-ni '2M SiK l!'.i; l*i;.\(()('i; : lliicliad Iktii picsoiit ;it tliC niic ct' wliicli ho liai] .ticc tlii'ii '■'■<■ iviHili 1 liiivc kiKuvii lluit it was jiilioiu'iioil. II Mi:. 11i:n.'a\:i\ :- Yi's, tliciv is tio ilnu!)t. ahoiit it. Liiun Si: r.'i;.\K : — I'r.nn the I)i'^-iniiin<;' to the oiul of tho sptcinl case it is no- where ?iateil ar a fact tliat U|)i)ii any occasion Mr. Day eitl'.er had or hail not notice, !.nt tho mimito.s are Ptatci hi tir/enso hy ,-;oiiio of whioii, up to a certain Hate, it ,i|i|)ear.s that (.lirectiuns were given to i^ivt' liini notice and tliat tlio notice.-: which liad been given were obeyed, and after that on tlie face of th(^ niiiuites subse- (|iientlv *t:iied tliei'C is notiiing about it. Mi:. Bk.v.'.vmin :— Tliat is the fact. Loup SEr.i;iii;.\i; ; — So that a.s a sultstantial fact it is nowliero .stated one way III' the other tliat lie had notice at any time. Mr;. I;'kn i.vMix :— It is stated that up to a certain time ho had notice. TiiK Loi;!' CH.\.Nii:r,i.oK :- -He would not require notice if he had notice at any one time and they adjouriied it (f<: die in, i/icm, or to one specified day afterwards. Sii; r..M:;.;> Pkai ..;( K : — They tiiight not have been able to give him notice • if every r,d''.M.r:!;:ie!ii, beoiiii'e once they adjouriied to the afternoon of the same m (!:ty. I.oKi' S:>-r.i;.">i;vK :— What stinclc me was this, that the pe(!u!!ar way in which the speei:i! -'■aso :- .-rated, If.^ing in substance merely a copy of the minutes, would make it con-i-'tiU with t];!>. rhat they might have continued to give notice, but lint have C":.;"' :;cd. to enter ir upon the minutes. th ma Hot have C":.;"' :;cd. to enter ir upon i.,.. ...iwinv.,-. Mi:. ]'•, N.A>:r\ : — 'J'lirit is a po.-?il)i!ity. Til! 1, i;:- C'!!.\nli:i.i,oi; : — Surely the Province-, of Ontario and (Quebec have 11"! come he ,• 'o .loeiih' wlierlier there was notice given to the arbitrator of the ;i.l jiiirnnu:^. ?!i: >r.'V :>•:!- K. SMiru ^iii,-^tio:!> p'" ;!■ ( if.wri.M.oi; :— '1 hat is not the question we h;ivc to argue here. ■■ -ir iicrc to hear such a <';ise. ■\\'i.\ :-- '['!.' • iiu.'snmi is insiihcd in this way in one of the |)oint:, riu ■ ■■■ '-' '• ' ■ ■ ' ' ' ■' " There is a que.^tiiui as to notice ;iinongst, the Tiir ] \V,;.^!:om!:! Ml;. I I'll the ir'e! In ^o n:;. no riuiit t" Till. : .-(•I'ioli : i'luy s y •• veii had iio piwcr \ Skmiount : — Oh ye.', that a[)pears. Mk. J'.i.N.iAMi.v : — Wh.it wo say is that the solo groiiiul upon which two arbi- trators, pnxveding alone, can I)y po.^sihility make a valid award, is by showiiiL' that the other had been notitied to attend and had not attended. Till l.oKi) CiiANci:! i.oi; : — [f these me(.'ting;^ wore held by adjournment imtiee was iii.ces.-arv. iinl t i' Sii; Mi.Ni.Vi.n Iv S.Mi'iii :•- You really lia\t' not raisul il in tlie(jue.«tion.>, ; if yoii hinl ni-ed 't the eviihuice might lia\e been sujiplied. I do not sa}' t)i:i( iwist-, but i' miuht. Sii; .1 wn - W. ('oi.\ 11,1 : -We base iio jmi-diction over any matter that doc; iiiit e.iiiu' v'lii'iiii I. no u oihi'i ui' tlio:-r i|iii'-tions, Mii, v\ llt^fliCI' t I m; iMi.iiii .|^^l|||lL■ll^, Iiavr suilK ■|i(:ci.ll J)! \u>l\\t to u ;iii;inri(_;iit. ihr 2-2iiil ;ilUT\viir(I> iSii: ,] cinur (ivui Mi:. (it'ncM';il. a- till' l,i'_u:i>l, rinvihpial /:■;.■ /;//^; ciTiIit.-;, ii, Ih'cm rc'fV'ii'v IiU'MI f)f (); cniiiieiit "; \'i;f!ie<'. 'I liu' 1 'I'.n ii,L' \ illCiJ i/f ( )(i -M a;i..]a. n ;'ir fMn-|.'|WII t" I'lv'U'.-f a_ -■!" l':.Ma ia a ■>;!' lia< (ni,- :'ii' ai'iiri'.;!, '-'.!!:o |[..: >\!,v .,r (Ji;,. 'Miii.iaij JDiii i"ii!i>!'.vl ill i '!"■ t xaiiii.'ia! :. i!f..:n'(,'i;s j;;, ;''jiii!a!.Ie aih! Tiiar >ii<'I) I-,.; Ill (.hil'lu'c, 1|, : l'i^t> to the ( : '^I'voi'iiiiKiiit I ; iiitfrior action i iii(:oiiipl(>te, ^'''ly and ^[a; fill' two |>|Mvi| ami n:i tlio 3r. Hi- Kxcvllfiic 'l^i''>l the I,!r!l '■i'iiiiMi,.|„Tal, '"i'ii'ii av.aul I'iU'lv.t of tin. ■""' Ma'ij.lii.r.M "' ''■'■ I Wo |ir,i ■ ■ .tj ■ •'■ J- ->!! M i;. I>i:n.i\mi.\ W (•(iiitoiid tli;it it ilocs coiiu' witliiii tliL! lust (juostidii u Iii'Mht tilt) MWiiid is valiil. llmvcvor, niv I.'trds, I will rmf |)ri:s.-, that pditit fnr III lit. I will procri'd with the stiitcni'iit of llio fat't^ l)i't'i)i'(> I atteiii|>t umv lin: nio Ay'i iiiit'iit, ii|niii tliu law ot' the (•a^iO. At \y.v^r. 45 vmi liiul the award. I sliall liavi' Hoiiicthiiii;- •'o say in rolation to it. It is too Iowj: tn ro;id now without any ■■|i(icial piu'ixisr of point to cmI! yimv l/irdi-hips' atli'iitioii in. There will be a |M)iMt to wliicli I will call your Lordships* attciuioti prosi'iitly i'l lii" course of tliii ;n;;iniieiit. At j aiiV 5:^ there was a jniiit address of the Jiei^islature of Canada on ilir'J'2iid l)ccoinl)er, 1^7(1. I ei.'i>l.itive Council and I.e^'islative Assembly of the I'lovinee of <2i"-d»oe, in I'ldvineial J.eui.-!ature assembled, humbly ai'.pixiacli yi'itr I'Aeellcncy for the pur- |iM-e of ropro-;';itiiiti^, — that. aeiMrdini, to the provisions mi the li2iul Section of /7r' HrW't^l' y<.')i/t Aiii'i'ii'r,e!iee. Ti;;i" tin.- Honourable hewey Diy having been apix.iiiited arbitrator by 'lu' riMsiiiceof ijuebec, the i b.ii.'ur ible haud Lewis Macplierson by the Pro- \ iace of < >ntar''i. '.tid the ! lotiiiiiraiile John llaniiittu; Cray by the ( iovetiwuent nf ( atiida. r,;i '; ;i,e last naiiieJ .irl'iir.itor llavill^■ taken Uji his n.si'ieiiee in Ottawa, :;k ( lo\e!'i:';i;M;r ■ :' the rro\'i''fe o'.' ( nu'bi'C ha\'e deemed it iiieiimbent upon them t.i p;'/.e>' .!_•..'::.-: iiis ei.iiitiiniiii;:' ;:i iMliee. atid to c.\pie-.-. hotli to the (Tovernment i.f ("ana la. a I'i :o t!i'.- aiiiitrati'r.^ tlK■m^elv^■,-. their tirm eonvietioii. that to cai'ry ■lUMhe trui- inreiii and me in'i'c of the llritis!i Xortii .Amerira .\et the ilecisiou of :';r,ii'.;trat' :> .Slid lie Mi'-oilnioii--. "hat Mi!':-e'jui ii'ly, on iiie i'tli day of -Inly ',!.-!. tlie llon'M'Mhlc (..'liarK.- J)rv>ey I'ay, ilii> ailiiiialor apjioiiued iiv the Pro- » 'iM-.' nf ( Jiti''; v'l . d'iTeri!;:;' ''■'\ ■•pitdoii '.vitli ih,' othei aibitristi.'is respe.-tiii-- a |>re- iiiai.ia.y jed'in'rn;. whitli ap|va;ed lo hini !j:i-ed npoii p:-.';eiisi(>tis at iinee un- ii.imderl ill Im-! .liid in law, and deemin^■ lliai by the reiiderin;; of that judi;'iiieiil. the exaniin.'ili'. u of ihe oiie.-ti m \voii!d i)c I'l'^lrieted iiv the iiille.\il)le iiileofau nl. UK' it, and that it would be, tliei^'fore. impo.-sible to arrive at anv I'l'Vune.'Us ; . . 1 iiis'i ill I ■•] ■'? , \i^-.'i% W^-\ m r ft' dl.'l j! 1 1- m m iffiit: ftyi'^ it ■''^'7^'H|iW3"*'"!<"''''*'^M?l»?fH' ' :';^'-'»'* SfflBv^' i-'ty- \^^- ifl|»nv>»yww-? 'ff^ , ■■•> n till.' ul)jc.'ct iiiui iiatiii'O u( (•.Ttiiii iU'iiis i.i cxiK'inlitaii! avini; !)i;in mcmTcd )ri oii>'-»r the otlur SfL'ti'iii of' tli(> I'l'DviiifCMil' (!:',iiail;i, IVdin tlm poiiod of tlio I'liioii to ('.jiifodoraiioii. Tliat tlio sii'l |)r('tfii(lt'il av.Mi.l iV' fuitlii-i' mijii^t, iicisiniicli a;' tin; ^ tlivision of tli(' citiilits, |)roi>LTti('saii(l as-ot,-' of the late I'ri'vinct' of (^airida 'loes not fV(>!i prococ'l upon tlic saiiR' lia^i;; anil j>riiu'i))l(>.s as till 'SI' wiiicli appear to liavf! !)0(Mi adoptoil in relation to thu division of tli(.' l)aIi;nc;L' of the delit, and docs not rot upon any principle wlialsuever, Itnt is pnicly arliitiary, and favours the I'ro- vinco of Ontario at the expLMise of the Province of <^)iii.:lier\ That, lastly, the provisions of the said pretiiidcd award fidly justify the apprfhensions of the dis- tiniiiiished lawyer selected hy this I'roviiu'O as its arhitritar, and the firm and iiiiiependcnt line of conduct which ho adojitcd in tljc interests of justice. That tlic said pretended award is absolutely illegal, null and void, for the reasons hci'C- ir;liL-fore set forth, and also as having been rendered by two arbitrators, who by the resignation of their colleague remained without any power or jurisdiction, and that, therefore, the intentions of the r.riti-li North America Act have been carried out. and no valid tide has been eonfru'red upon either Province in relation to tlie credit", properties and assets, whic li it was tlu; duty of the said arbitrators to apportion ai:d 'iivide be!\\eeri the two Pr(;vineos. That the i'rovince of Quebec ran neither sr.binit to its piMp,r!ry being dis|,(>>ed of, nv to any sum whatever b(;i:ig exacted friMii it, noi- can It accept any [)i'op(M'ty, eivdils or a.-sets in virtue of thesuid pretended iiwavd, and that ir i.> bound to lesist l)y all means wiiiiiu its power the execution of trie said pretended ;iward, claiming as itdoe- thai justice be done, uiid that its rig:, 's. iis recogpi/ed by the British North Ameri'-a Act, be maintained. Wherofiire, wtj hunddy jM'ay ti;ar Vour Excellency \vill \h- pleased toadnptpuch iiM.ajures as ;Ve i^est cilcu'atd to insure iusti.n! to this l'rn\ incc.-' Then at the •• Note. -Oii'^iri',' di-putes the various giouuds of objection which. •mueiiti-'. }'i..' l-'ACcutive Council and i he Legislative; Assembly of i>i tlie merits and all MMt (.f tha^ i- . in iue ab.i'.'e d Ijuebec K'.ai.'.e 'o the nv.'iu'i.'. i'otli tho-:o i>bjrCtioii.- )-i-lati;iL .it!iei-s. On; i-'-M ;,nii uiing thai tie- award v,:i^ iriad' I'-an ot h-i!;ii:ir. expei-;e!ie" and ab:lir\-. iha.t fla' a\'' tiiat it was tiM- n:adc in ^h^ i'lio.i faith by t \vo gentlc- eas noi nn just to (Quebec, ii'.-t o!' ( !ii!ai i'... or to tic- 'Uri'idice of (^luebcc: anil ,1.1 .1 ■ iiuicli ie-.- !a\Muril.' ' to ( ):i;ar!M M'at')!S." 'i';i!;i ilir li; 'U'lIeni'V tl Tiiary !idip:vi arep.iit ■.'' Mr. M.j'r, '■..iiald after j'roi ■ceding; {>• iTrile ; .1 ,d-toi'v I,;' 1 !;■•. tiao>arr;MU, sa\> at ■I. f: i'liai: ( 'ii: iriii justly demanded ■j.w! ficncral in C^oimeil •V Miinstur of .Tusticc, had occurred upon the : •■ The case now staiuh-' •etlitr illegal and void, iiy every constitutional \-:\ its validity, asks the 1 tl a 1:0 that in fae it ; I el'oi'c till' a!;- oil tlie i' :'. 1 e: a'=d Mi: Mae. inatter, :::iv;';;; thus — The (nAernuielit of (),.;urii. C'.!;terds iliat i! '.-: ail. and declares its intention of appealing for rediess and jus'i. mode, and tlic Lcgislaiuie of Quebec; ah" pmtesting au.i (Governor General to adopt measures to protect the rights v( tiuit I'rovince. Nov/ the (lovernmciit of Canada has no ]>ovv(;r or means of intcivening l)ctwecn the jiaitiep, of enforcing the award as valid, or setting- it aside as invalid, or of granting the rediess, or the measure of protcciiwi sought tor Iiv the hegislature of (,|ucbec. It is for the Government of Ontario, if it desires to enforce the award, to take .^iich steps a- it may b'O ailvised that the law allows for that purpose, and it is for the .Province of Quebec to take tin; necCv-.-a.r; legad :tep.-. v< re.dst any action on tlie part of that of Ontario. If the (piestion of tie' validity .d the -w^ard becomes :. na.tter of lit'gation, eitln'r Province will lia\e the power of carrying it by appe;:' fi'oiii the decision of any inferior ti'ibiin,; t'> the .lud'eja! < 'nMimittee id the Priv;." Councih as the (!ourt of la.^t rc'-'irt." Then the siig^c-ti.Hi Is made foi- a sjieci d e;i-e-- ;ind that is done -and iii that niar.ner the iiiaifer roiiic-- before your I.ord- shiii-. 'i'he points ill the spi>c';il c'.a' an; at pajie o'.t. ;.iiil i is my duty uo'.v '■■' I all viiiir I Mi-if.hip,-;'' alleiilimi to fheni. The lii-t \< : '■ \\ lu-!lie)' under tin; li'- ■iiiM-ianc iieieuibeioro the -aid llamillon 'n'ay liao. iiecou.O di^^ipaal'li" ' 1 •--,'!•* •*■>• .'■i. n •t >t > d It 5- 5 n n 8 c ! aftci '■oiiiiintN •lieti(iii !,■ "Ijjuctio!; 'o yoii .' ■ippeol iij '.|>rilt;liip,^ iioeii no o .i:iVS. Tni-j Ontario tt 'ors have > ■t^rii.sed to now to (lie 'l'KlcT,st;,I)( J\ri;. 1 not takfi c. 'lie (Jllc>:tio J 111: . ■■,roiiii(K of Mk. 1 •■IIT .Oils,! Tkk I v.. -V>-y'7^;, Jif M%i '^mMufuv taiU^/w-' >«' 'Y'li-'ii'l'll'i'fr''*-'-" ■■' ■--^'^"-^'^■^ W^Mte'.l A^;!Mt It >■ e I- d It 5- 5 n n P'i to nut, or coiitiiiuc, as iirltitrator.'' The scuoiul is: " Wliotlier, after a lifarinj^ Ijcfiji'o the three arl)itrat()is, two uf tlioiii coiiKI lt'<^ally roii'Ici" a decision or award, and if vca, couUl tiiey ih.> .-u in the alisenceuf the tiiinl." \\ ell, my Lords, it is dilliciilt to irt'parate tiiesi.' points, because this point ■.issiinios a hearing i)eri»re three arhitiatois and then two niakinij the award in the al)sence of tiic thiril. lint »../■ finiciKsli>. the heaiiii::; was not heforc three. Tiie hearing:; wus hufoie two al'ter tlie mie had withdrawn. Sin .I,\^rKo Cor.vii.i; :— Are they not distinct questions? SiK Haknk.s Pk.v( (k.'K : — Tlie liftli raises tlie (piestinn whether he could do it after the resij^natiun ] Mk. Ukn.iamix : — Yes. Tiie (picstions ran .so rnneli into each other that it is almost impos.-ih!o to sep.iratc the antliuritius or to disens.i them as independent i|U('Stioii.-. However, my Lords, I wid call your Lordships' attention to tiiu puints which We u)al:e in the cas,' am) to tiie aiitliorities in alHrmance iif our prupos*'.ioris. Wc sny in the lir^t place as a in;'.tti'r of law that tlie reference under this Act of l'arli;U!i'.':)t is a refer-jnce tu three ailtitrators and tiiatno |)0ssil)lc deeisiwn coniu he made witliout tlie co!u:iir!t.'nce of the three. Whether the absence of the third arbitrator ;ro.se from death, or illness, or lunacy, or any other incapacity or wrong doing, or coiiimis.>;ion of criMio by him.orfelony, or whatever you choose to 8u<;gest, there remaiiieil but two ai-bitiators. and two arliitrators were not a competent tri- bunal under this Act. Now. ujy Lords, I had p ihaps better call yonr Lordships' attention now to what we consider to l)e ictliy the meaniiii;' of these three .".rjcfions put top;ethcM-. We coi.-i'ler that ''lu secriuii-. li'2 auil 113 amount to a ilistiibution of certain I'ssei.-. iwA certain hal.iiitics. Loi:!' Sk.'.hokm: :— Thii ^ov.- Vo \'u<' merits of the award. Mi:. i>i:N.).\M!X :— Voui LouKhip wilt find it is in^nlveil. It isdiflicult to ,i;o iiackwards and forwards, hnl wliris we cume to tiie validity of the awanl the • iUcsriciu will ari-:e v.iicrlijr they have a>snmed jui isdicti.ni osqv a subject not I'oimnit'cd *•> tlicm. oi' whether fliry have omitted or ivl'us'.'d to exercise a juris dictit)ii committed to tliciii u|)oii the lace of the award. ]-oi;i' iMi fioK-M : - Vou .-av under that ireneral ol)icc!ion, number G, all '.i^' cU to tl i e \ a 1 1 1 1 \' o I the award which appear upon t!ic face of it arc open o you : ■ Ml >1:NM AMI.V ■Yes Tl le ease is iirouir lit bofoic your Lordships, not as an ippcal upon which according to your Lordships' rules each side would have stated case and stated liis ]>iopositio!is, it c omc: from Canada for the advice of your )rdships to Her Majesty upon the eiiciimstances of a case stated, and there has iieen no op]>ortunitv, at least I liiive had none— 1 oulv ha- nutliiiii I enu iieeilic ary sense bar- been stated hen rse not hiie; is sjiccilie beeaii.-e, no case in the .- 1 1 1 ; I - I'ltK Lol;i> Cli \.M t;i. jMi; h not the meaning ol. litis point whether ih': !^i. "■/^.itti^ '1 ^ fl ill ' 111 IKI III ;ii' \v w 1. A ct W PTt??i 21 ■ IW.II' 1 ni tl iif ;;i'i! Sf '.iti'iiilx-'r, I ^7*' i:- l.;m. . I dlr-ci". i: vtjiir uwii a;bitra(oi' wa.s (juito )nr|)aii il tu tiiKi; ;i line illl;i.ll-i^tl•|lt with tin.' ariiiiiiifiif wliic'i yuii sceiiiotl td put t'urwanl. ,Mu. lii.v.i \Miv : I <|iiitL' C'tnciir, My iiii|>ic'S5iii)ii is that wln.'ii yoMr Loni- -lllpS (ti'lIK' t I I' nii-;ini :i*u flit- ca>L' vuii will tiiid that tlio arhitratui'. .f tl If 1 11, l(i-f>.'r| ih' .\i.-t of !'a! liaiiiuMt, ami wliv jH'ocfi'iliiitr on (.'iruiKioiis |>:iiii;i|ilef. Act i.f ! ll'tll C'll.-. Sr: 1 Ihcv iiii-iiiti'i |.:i'tt:l rtie Act nt I arliamtJiit, iiiisiiitc'r|iiotod iIrmi' dutiuo, iiiisiiircr- |iivti'il iIk' III: ttvi'-; ciiiiiiiiiffc'l t'> lIuMii, aipl coiisrijiioiifiy ^^ot iiitn.i wiaiiuk" wliich n>iilf(.'n faUo principles, where npon the face of tlie av.ard voii ti' li ti. :t the arii'tiat"!'.- thoiiisi'Ki's declined to deal with mutters wliich uiic spj.' lily t.;.r:!i-ted to them, and deah with others which wore not entrusted til th'iii. V- ;■ l,"!'d-liip? will ohsL'i've the i^round of iMr. DayV withdrawal ib tiii-i : \\k -ay.- (-^jirc-sly iu rhe ;'ii!V:^i'uiind of his <|issent, at pai^e 17, hecaiisu tlic ii'M'ts si'ei'irii. i '.'.'. S,':i"duli.' 4 a;i'i all Either as^ets to be divided niidiM' the authority (if rlic .- li i AiT (.'-ijl:' tl' lie di\j''ed I'ljii i!!y aceordiiiL' to their value. Till, i,"!:;' ('■; ■.:>■ r.i.i.oi; :- -Ii' tiiat wciu Iii.s only ufounu he onujht to have re- mained .ai. ! -L'l. 'he award made, ile niiuht have convinced his colleai^iies. ,Mi:. I -I N. • :::\ : 'i'heii \w say-, heeaii-e the >tate of iiidehrediK'.-s of each of the IVvliiri.- : ' ii-.ic!' :ii,d L"\\-e:' <. lU a la a: the time .ia;,>i . -a ..pen tVi.- vuu ly* take y.iur olhur point !'r.-t. This m:iy or may lii.it l.>e i:i i' ! i •!. .Ml: ll! >■ wix' — Aijoiil liij I evocation '. '\\\\. l.i'uii CiiANri.i r.oh: — Ves. .Mi:. ]'.;.>.'.vMi.v :-U])o!i that I will now adilres.s your Tjordships. Tin: i.ii:;' Cmam ii.t.oK : — If yo\i aie rii;ht upon that, the oilier points are iiiniiateii il. iMi:. JJ!;.\.iA->u.\ :— Ves. Til! l.oi;') I'll wri.r.i oi; ; — li you are wrung upon that, the fact of your arliitratnt !i:ivintc ahsente 1 himself nniy have a material bearing. .Ml; i!i..\.! \Mi.v.:--i: \\;i- a. ii'i vri \- \;a;i ■I'll.lil: !, ;Vnd 1 v.aiidd refer yoiir Lordships to sections JT to -*L There all : vbitrarion betwi.cn those Pi'ovinees, and Parlia:neiit kne*'. 1 between tlu! arbitrators or for an-. .\ I'lir d- cliiiiur ill section 17 that there aii. til )i'-«'('e(l and in ease of di-:':r( hoi Id II' (lolu; m disinif'.'. Il -,iv.- reiiiedv id' the incoiivenieiice oeciirfiun "''»'' Jimi»i'^->-^-SK^*»fl»#!«ji^, ■■V:^'\-?l*>^ ^^I'^sm' ^ ^- ^ B". ' "» i'i; g m:*^. ?'■■!"■ ■'.VVr i-K v:-_\^^^^'.. 'rtsi-.w'iS;»;-fei*' j-m^:^i ^i I t I ' 1 f Hio ^., »»»*r«fS5ifi<«i»-r**»- '♦WW 25 •' Iiy tlio ijiisptnisioii of the snid agreement, and for the satisfactory investigation " and ad jii.stmont of tlie f=aid claims, ijo it eiiactcd : That it shall be lawful lor the '' (ro\ eiiior, Lientenaiit-(Tovernor, or jierson administering the Government of ''each of the said Provinces of Upper and Lower Canada, as soon as conveniently "' may bo after the passing of this Act, to appoint by commission, nnder the great " seal of his respective Province, one arbitratar; that the said arbitrators so ap- "' pointed shall liave power by an instrument under their hands and seals to ap- " jioint a third arbitrator; and in case of their not agreeing in such appointment " within one month frem the date of appointment of the arbitrators so directed ' to be made on the part of the respective Provinces or the last thereof if the said " ajipointments chall not be made on the part of the respective Provinces or the " last thereof if the said appointments shall not be made on the same day His "" Majesty, His Heirs or Successors shall have power by an instrument under his " Sigti ^[anual to appoint such third arbitrator," who (if appointed in manner last mciiHon'.-d) "shall i!ot be an inhal)itant of either of the said Provinces and that the three arhitiators so a|inointed as aforesaid shall have power to hear and to ceter- . mine ail claims of the Province of Upper Canada upon the Province of Lower Cana,l;i.'" TliL'ii, by section IS, tiie arbitrators have power to send for persons and pa))cis and witnesses are to be sworn. Then by section 20 : "In case of the death, removal or !nca])acity of either of the said arbitrators before making an award, or in case llic third aibitrator chosen or appointed iis aforesaid shall refuse to act, anothur sliaJi be appointed in his stead in the "same manner as such arbitrator so CKMil, loiiii'vci] or become incapable or refusing to act as aforesaid was originally appoiiiti.it, and that in cuse a third arbitrator shall be appointed by liis Majesty, as 'iLiviM.iffer mcntioiictl, ir shall an(i may bo lawful for the Governor-in-Coniiei! to dc'LTinirc tiio attuiiuit of I'l'nmnciMtion." I'lien -section 21 : " The award of the majority of the said arbitrators, as far as the saiiie shall be iiutlioiized by this Act, shall be final and conclusive as to ail matte".- therein contained, but if cither of the arbitrators nominated by the (4ov- • iiior, Lic'itcnant-lrovernor or person administering the Ciovernincnt sliall refuse or lu'uiect to act on due notice being given, the two remaining arbitrators may jirocei'i] tu licar and determine the matters referred to them in the same manner as if iio uoro present."' There, my Lords, it seems that Parliament had in con- tcu)plat;on tiie rieccs>ity of spcicial enactments where three arbitrators were M|)point. 'i as to what should be done in case any one of the arbitrators should fail to be prc.-ent and in case there should be a division of o])inion, that is to say, that the reference to arl)itration was upon the condition that if they met together a majority niight make an award, but t'lere were always to be three, except in the case of cither of tiie arl)itrators named by the (rovernor refusing or neglecting to attend orr «lue notice l)oing given — then tiio remaining meir'^ers might make an award— an express provision in the Act for the award of a majority or of two acting if one became incapable and his place was not supplied. Now, my Lords, none of these provisions are in the present Act. Tni; Lord Ciiaxcki.m'u: — It does tjot say that if they disaion-, and its language is thai the questions shall be submitti'd to the arbi- tiatiii'iil of tHici; i'rliilrat.ors, one. chosen by the (fOvernnnMit of Onlat'io, otn; by the (oci'inmcnl u (Juibi'i', and llic otIi'T by tlu' (lovcrnnK lit of dainda. 1 c.ow- li'ti'I tl;:it (111' arbitiatioii faih-, tin' nioincnl Miat i'i rilr u :M H. §1 yoii cannot get three o c.ineiii' n) n .1 a n •'I 01 [\\ to I wi th Ci er th an he th iiii t\v ov up fo; till 2ft tli(- awai'i from any cause, and I also contend tliat there is a power of revocation and tliat the power of revocation has been duly exercised. Loud Ski.uchink : — ^Do you contend that there is an implied j>ower to make a secmid appointment or not i! Mk. JiiJNJAMiN : — I must take the case of either Province— not carryinf» that out. not appointinfj an arbitrator at all. Wiuit would be the result? Surely there could he no arbitrution. Lord Skmsokne : — It is the Government which is to appoint, aiid when tlie statute says a certain duty is cast upon a Government it takes it for [granted that iiie duty will be dischari^ed. Mb. Bknjamin : — I am merely making the supposition. That might be said of the arbitrator too — that every one would perform his duty. TiiK Loiiu Chancki-lor : — No, there is a difference in that respect. Tljo Government must be presumed to act upon the Act of Parliament. Wliat I wanted to k-^ow waa whether you contend that in case of revocation the whole tiling is to fall through. Mk. Benj-\mi.v : — T do contend for that. 1 think the authorities will bear nio out in that. Loud .Sklborne : — That there is no power to appoint a new arbitrator instead of tlie per.sori who is revoked ? Mr. Bkn.iamtn : — No ; 1 do not go as far as that, I stop short of that, because what Canada ''Qudnjc) did, as 1 understand, was not to refuse to aj)point a now arbitrator, but to ask for a little time. LoHD Ski.!:oknk : — I want to know whether you could or could not do it as a matter of law. ^Ir. Ben.iamin ; — My own opinion, if \ am asked that question— answering it liaphazani — for i have really not cuns-idered the fpu.!Sti'>n, is tiiat if (Jucbec had a]ii)<">inted n(' arbitrator in the place of ^Nlr. Hay, the arbitration might have gone on validly. LoKD Sj i.iii.iit.N'i: ; — Although there was no express pro\Kion for that purpose lis there was in flie other Act you referred to. Mu. Ukn.iamin : — Y(s, because the other Act had a ])rovision in relation to two acting fo.'etiier. There was :•. ])rovi.>^ion for the case of either of the arbitra- tors appointed by one failing to aet or becoming incapable. My Lord.-i, tlie reation I originally n^kod your Lordships' attention to sections 1 1'2 and 113 in connection villi ]4'2 was this, that wo eonsidcr to be the true meaning of the Act is tliat there are the tl;rec arbitrators ;ippointed in distinct interests, tiiat is to say, that Canada had an interest, Quebec had an interest, Ontario had an interest. Loud Ski.houne : — I do not cpiite follow you when you sa} the General Gov- ernment had an interest. Surely the clause of arbitration would not authorize tiiem to do anything in favor of or to the prejudice of the General Government. Mr. Bkn.iamin :— ^What were they to do was to adjust and divide the defend- ants' creoits and liabilities. Lord Skmiornk :--]ietwecu these two Provinces what the statute said was to he a joint liability of the Domitnon Government would remain a joint liability of tlie Dominion Government. Mu. lU:.v.iAMiN : — That is true. Hut yet the Domiiuon Government might iuive an intercut in seeing how the assets and liabilities were adju.-tcd between the two Provinces, the two I'rovinceb being a part of the General Dominion — at all events that is the view taken of it, because your Lordships will observe that in the ujipiiintinent of the con.niissioiier for Canada he is not ajipoiiited a tliird arbitrator for the intl•re^tl. of tin; two l'i'ovin(!es alone, but he is especially appointed to bf the olio ar!)itrator eho.-ie:i by the (iovernmcnt of Canada, not an arbitrator siniplv ehu^i-n l;v Canada to act for tlu! I'ntvinecs, l>nt " you art- the arbitrator on beha!. rr^'ir*-,- ,-'>fW>^,^ff^Bpi,,>»gj'>j^ V i; J.' IJ I I' },y f lii'ii :l|>p, SO tV ci'iK: l':tr; tlia- wir,;-. iiiti.',-! Slv: :l!ui : rlia: iii\' : :■ rli;i; I iiiui Wo he:- iiir;,-,-,; :!! ■••.'.;;.; '•<\t:-'. - ,; ;t ■■.■:!:>- •^atrii. ^ I\ : 27 1 "I tlio Government of Ciuiadii, to ail>itrato together with the arbitratore cliosea ''V the Governments of Ontario and Quebec respectively. —It is to be an arbitra- lii.ii bv yon on belialf of the General Government with the two arbitrators appointed by the Provinces rei.!pectively." That is the commission, and, my Lords, si' t.ir as tliat commission is concerned, it cannot be said to be in the least degree >'>>i'.:rary to the provisions of the Act or in contravention of the intention of i'ar'.i.iraent. Parliament has said there must be three. Why is the Dominion of (';i;iAda to appoint not an umpire but a third arbitrator ? and why at the time is thar third arbitrator appointed on behalf of the Government of Canada, together \vit>. the other two, in all and every the matters referred in that Act to such arbi- tiv>:ors i J am only referring to this to show that they consider they have an inrc-vst at the time and that that was the meaning of the Act SiK Ja5:]:3 Colvilk : —I do not see what interest the} had under these earlier i">ns. They defined the point, liabilitv of the Provinces to the Dominion, '.y.en give the Supreme Government tub power of deducting the inte:\.^i upon .-•ortion of the debt of that Province. Mr. Benjamin :--It is in this way : Sections 110 and 111—" All assets con- :"vi M-ith such portionv of the public debt of each Province, as are assumed by Province, shall belonij to that Province." So that the Act contemplates that ." of the debt may be assumed by a particular Province. Then it says: " The .ral Government shall bo liable for the debts and liabilities of each Province," ;hen it provides for a division of the assets and debts of Ontanoand Quebec. . my Lords, it might so happen that in adjusting the assets and the property ven the two Provinces of Ontario and Quebec, a portion of the debt should fannied by one of the Provinces upon taking possession of an asset, and if that li; -. ■;: be the case Canadu v,-ould have a clear interest in ascertaining in what way !:s.«oto of the Province were divided out and the debts assumed, inafimnch as : ";ii was to take upon itself the debt of all the Provinoos, and an unequal or ■■■'•.^er distribution miirht affect its interest. At all events such seems to have '.'iO coiitcrnplation, because Section 112 speaks of the liability of Ontario and I.'?, and Section 142 speaks of che debts of Upper Canada and Lower Canada, t.r-'on to which the Governments of Ontario and of Quebec aro to appoint ar- ..-f. which scorns directly to point to the antecedent debt of the two Colonics; :i:>: that is the way in which we interpret these 4th and 5th Sections. But ,: back *:) the question of the three arbitrators you have licre no umpire ap- .'ij. In ordinary caso.-> each party appoints an arbitrator, but no one has ever ■'■i'd that those arbitrators must bo unanimous in their award upon every and in consequence of the ditKculty of unanimity it has long been the :ice in private, and occasionally in public arbitrations, to appoint an mnpirc ; iK-rhtng can be clearer under the authorities than the distmction between an lire and an arbitrator. When three arbitrators are appointed all three must cvtio'.nr in their decision lipon the subject committed to them, becaupe it is com- "'':;'(! to the joint judgincut and consultation of all three, and in thj absence of iiing to stato whetlier any majority and what majority shall govern, I thi".k. •iJe of law is without exception, that all three must concur. But upon, the !i of revocation, v,-!;i'^h is the first point to which my attention has been called nur Lordships, the right to revoke an arbitrator is one of the oldest rights lumon Law — the right to revoke a submissioti, or to revoke an appointment. ' :■>> hack tti Vijviois^ case in Sth Coke. ..<-<\:\t Sior.noKNK : — I suppose we may take it that the Idw of Canada is the A;u. Bex.i^:min :— i a.«sumo tlmt fnr the moinont Tho law of Upper Canada *arne afi the Cumnion Law. In VyMois' case, Sta Cdkc, page 299, a question .1; to the power of revucatinn. iiui rha: nee : flia; m">I!- lie- line. We be^^ flu (':,: :ur 'le-: ( );• in ■ lit ;t : 'le-.: pra inr, iin: mi aiiv rhe i,v at L ^M\\\ m i-X ij»|Mff«r«7''' rf i--^ ^i i ■: r es TiiK Atuiknkv-Gknkuai, ; — My Lurds, \vc ogroe about this tliut tlus law is t.i !>o t;\kcii tu he tho law of thin country. Mii. Iii:.\.iAMi.\ : — !My learned friend says the Province of Ontario chui not (•oiito.4 that it is tho \iiw of Erii^land which is to t^'overn the case. That hciiig the case wa C'jtiic back to the 8th Coke, and wo lind that this was decided in Vmnnh^ ca.ic; in relation to an arlntrator ; the plea is that the arl)itrator made no award: "The .said William Wyld saith that the aforesaid Robert ought not to have his action aforesaid against him, because he saith that the arbitrator afore ^;iiu, after tho making of the writing and before the aforesaid Feast of St. Michael tho Archaiigul, in tho condition aforesaid above specified, did not make any award in writing under the hand and seal of the same arbitrator, between him the said William and the aforesaid Ftobert, of and upon the pre;uises aforesaid, in the condition afoi'iisaid, above specified, according to the form and effect of that con- dition, and this ho is ready to verify, whereupon he prayeth judgment if the ahiicsaid Ilobert ought to have his action aforesaid against him, &c." The repli- cation was tiiat the defendant revoked the authority given by him to the arbitra- ror. upon \i.L'c!i there was a demurrer, and then upon the demurrer ttiere was a jiiiiider, and rjj'j court took the matter under consideration. Siu ^[o.vrAi.ri; S.Mnn : — Nuliody disputes that in an ordinary submission to aihitratiiiii, t'lO ""e party may revoke the submission, hut then he is subject to an aclion by tli..' otlier ]iarty for so inion that thi.-^ ruleshould be discharged, r.ei'ore tho ,'..^wig of tho i'th and loth William III., c. 15. it was competent to a reference to revoke his submission ami it was not competetit to the subnrw.-ion irrevocable any more than it ^va^ coiripi-tent io him I'lMier parry ei'iluT to tn,. ;o make irrevi cable an a)^poinl.meut of an ordinary agent without an iiiterestor !'• a tenant \j\ covetianfc in a lease to bar away hi:-; right to re[)!evy, for as is said in ^'/7.■.o^■" ■■■I.-, : 1; my act or my words cannot alter the judgment of the law to uiaki- liiat irrevo'r.i'tiJe wiiich is of its own nature irrevocable.'" 'IMuit law .as to arbitra- tion was !.ever ijuestioned, and it is e.\|>laincd how an arbitrator was put u])imi the touting of ati agent by a passage in ( 'oke's Institute, where it is said that it is a L;ood cause of challongo to a juror that he has been appointed arbitrator. In the courss of time it was thought desirable that submissions to arbitration should he levocab)':. The 9tli and 10th William III, cap. 15, was the first but an imperfect step in that direction, m'.king it lawful for parties entering into agreements to lefer that the submission shall be nuule a rule of Court, and making it imperative ell the Court to make the submission a rule of (.'ourt and subjecting the party who lefiises or ni gleets to perform tlio award to all the -penalties of eoutravening a I'lile of Court, 'i'he result wa.s that the Court in whicli the submk-sion was s:' made a rule aeqnired authority over the award, and according to Lord ihoughani, (M5., in S\'!i:f,ol.^ on. Roe (2), exclusive authority over the award made undei' th.^ lei'erence. And it might be thought that it was the intention of the T-egislalnre (^ iiiake the ,o!)itrator a Judge, That, however, was not the construction which was put upon the statute, because it wa.'^ held over and over again before the pa.ssiui; '•' I'.aiuii I'aii-e'.-f Act, that it was competent to either party to revoke tin; subiiii- -io 1 I \(.ii t!;.ii!Mh the submission had been made a rule of Court be.foiv the awar ' li:id lii'c'U iiiaoi'," .m'^.JrTT}*! ;X f . .-...-S,, ■.I S:'',S| :1 'J'J c a h K! 18 The Loud Ciianoi:i,lox{ : — Supposing 1 sell you an cotate, the piicc to ha settled by arbitration by A B, I cannot lovolco that rldegation of power to A ]> to settle the price of the estate. Mk. JJkn.iami.s' : — That is coupled with an interest. The J.,oud Ciianckli.ok : — Is not this the same tiling? LoKP Selboijnp: : — The use of the word " arbitration "' may mislead. The Loud Ciian-cioi.lok : — Tiiis is the sale of an estate, is it not i Mb. I'k.nmamin :— If A and J3 agree to leave to arbitiation the division of a thing which is not divisible in kind — say a library of law books— yoii cannot divide a library of law books by taking the one-half of eajjli author of course ; and it is to be divided according to the. judgment of the arbitrators. It is quite in the power of one of the parties to withdraw and say " I revoke my agreement to submit that to arbitration." The Lokd Ciianckli.ok : — Is not this a parliamcnuny power by which the Provinces surrender certain rights the one to the other? The price or certain items of th.e price are to be ascertained by what is called an arbitration ; but it was for the appi)iiitinent of the muchinery fur the purpose of determining the price. Tlic law is this, and you may rpiote any nnmber of authorities, that the death of '''fiu of the )>arries would levoke an ordinary .submission to arbitration, Init the death of one of the parties will not revoke an ordinary submission to arbi- tration in tiie case I have put. Jf 1 sell my estate, the price to be settled by one peison chosen by me and another by you, and the third person chosen by butli, and I die, tlnit is (juite as binding upon my representative as if I were alive, and the ordinary submission to arbitration will be gone. Mr. P)1.xja:mi.\ : — That is a Imrgnin in which the other party has a special interest. TiiK j.MiiU CiiANcKi.i.oP. :— Exactly. Mk. ijEXJAMi.N :— -It i~ a bargain for a sale, but this is a direction by Parlia- ment t'_ arl.iitrators to use riieir dist'ietion in.dividinir out as bek iiartiec Lokd SKt.iiouNE : — Is it not a fallacy to .say that the (-iovei'iimonts of these three Provinces are the iH'rsons who refer the thing to arbitration * The Im - periid Lc;;i-)atnre has referred it to arbitration, and surely only the Imperial eiri-Iature ooiild revoke it. Mu. Mkn-iamix : — The Imperial Legislature could revoke the submission to arbitration, I)Ut the (picstiou is, when one of those Governors has ap[)ointed an arbi- trator, when Her Jlajesty has given her patent to one of those arbitrator!-', whether She has or has it nut in Ihu' ))ower to say : The Loud Chan* i;i,i.oi: :- Is it not simply one to bo named by A. J}., one to be named by C\ D. and one to be named by E. K. They are named and there is an end of it. Lord Skm!ou.\e; — It is the Act of Parliament that enables them to do that. The Loku Chancem-ou : — It is as if their names wore inserted in the Act of Parliament. i\Ih. P>en.iamin :- Suppose after that one of then 1 (lies. TuE Loud Ciiancei.i.oi: : — That has i lot h ippeiied fortunately, Mu. Benma.min : — Or suppose one withdrew. Suppose or\e said " I will not :i.ct " Suppose he had Ixion named in the Act of Parlia:nent and said " I will not act;'' the arbitration could not go on : there must be another appointment. The Loud (^iia.n tli(' 6flf iloh C;,n Mill iiicii nut f anio a rovo Ihev . on w ;-'a*^ci'Sons slmll lu-bitrato," wouM you say tlii.'ii tliiit tlioy iniglit plead the rcvucatioii 'i Mit. IJi.N.i.'.Mix : — If tliu appointment had been diirinp pleasure. 8iu Mii.NT.\(,ri. .Smith : — During' pleasure id beyond their powers; they have only to exercise theif power of appointment ; adding " durinc; |)leasure " cannot. iiiaUe atiy ditl'erenee. Mi: I»i:x.iAMi.N : — There Is nothing in the Act of Parliament to linjit tho power of the Crown as to the terms of tlie appointment ; tlioy are to appoint an arliitrator. l.oui) Skujdkne: — Do you mean that the Crown might havo annexed any conditions it i>l«.a!:ed { Mii. iij..sM.\\ti.\ ; — No, but it limits the powers within a certain time for instance. Loiif> SEi.i!fiKNK : — Where is the authority for tliat ? Tlio word is- " chosen." Ml!. I*i:.N".iAMfN : — it is the power of choice. Hut whoever chooses an arbitra- tur c'oMveys. to tliat arbitrator a certain power. Tin: L^c.'i CiiANCKLT.oR : — That assumes the whole <]uestion--putting in tho word '• ;wi/ifiator " yon mean "arbitrator" in your sense of the term. Mu. lii.x.iAMi.v : — 1 simply use the language of the Act. Sii; 3Iu.\iAi.aK Smhii : — It is not a submission by agreement. Mi; lii.N.(\M!.\ :--No, imt surely it is a submission by Act of Parliament? I.oi;i. i'^::/.!;.'i;nt: :- -Supposing A and 13 agreed that a dispute between ti'cm .-liould be dcci'lod by three arbitratons, to bo named by C, D and E, could C, J) and E put ill ihu: tlioy were to have the power of revoking the nomination. Mi:. I!; s.fAMix : — An agreement of A and !> that C D and E should nom- itiute tiu'eo :u !/',f.r.'ito;s { LoKi) S i. '.!.'-;;>. t: :—Ye.~. Cuiild they, nominating the arbitrators, add that the ai'liiinstiir,' "■.•■-ro t'^ act durltig their ))leasure ? .Mi:- I '.!•.%■.'.■.'.!!.%■ :— It would be nece-^sary for them in the appointment to state v.iiit tlic jji'va.-:'- tliey gave to the arbitrators were, unless tlioro was some other ■cl; tiioy coiild d ;rive them. >j\isy. :— Tlicy have no ]iowers ; the pcr;;ons who agreed to refer to vr.iild },(j the sole .^ouicc of power; what thoy "iiid would determine < '1 course, if they named a person who would not take it upon him- i^i.nii'co iriiiM ->A'; urliitnitiiHi the power- R'lf there ■.vij.'.i 1 be no nomination ; but 1 cannot nnderstand how mere nonuna- tms can annex any condition, or reserve to themselves any ]iower3. Tni. i.oiiii CiiANc'EM.oK : — Suppose thei.\et had said that tho sums wore to he (k'tiirmined by three persons, one to be chosen by the Governor-General of Canada, one by the Fiist Lord of the Treasury in England, and one by the Prime .Minister, and they have chosen and named a person, such casualties as death or incapacity might have to be «!onsidered, but as regards the persons choosing, arc not they futicfi otjicio when they have done so i ^hx. lJi:.\.)AMi.\ : — If that should be the proper construction of the Act it wonld amount to this, that if the Province of Ontario and the Province of Quebec each revoked thiir nomination it wonld be a nullity. TiiK l.okii (JuANCF.r.r.oi; : — I put it with tho view of considering whether they could revoke. Could the Governor-General of Canada, the First Lord of tho Tieasuiy and the Prime Minister, having once exercised that power, afterwards revoke tlio appointment ■ Mi:. l;!;\MAMi.\ :■ -Supposing one of the parties said "T resign ; I will not go on with tliciii ;■■ Sii: 1!ai:: i- 1'i.a<'I'K ; — .\ftor he had bociu appointed might not he be coin- jH'lli'il by !■! •,i:i!:i;iiiis f<.> go on Mk MIX :— Vou iiKiv load a ho!'-u to the watir but you 'cannot make. :'r-"»'!i Mji^. "ni stjy 7 J^l{yg ! «^ B ffW^v* -'»^ ^'^^* w ^? **' S "''' ^ .'' ^ ' .* " '^ y" ' W-' '^'*^?sy??'^''^^ i-^K.! •';'*\»' :s liiin drlnlc, iniiiiot iiiak Hui Mi if flioy did I Mr. ]h ■special provi M'l as arbitr.' ■if tlie arbitr I'ailiainont :^ each party tc is not a subiu of a voliintar TirE Lo iiiig— that it careful orgai Provinces ui Mh. I}).;., oration is fori with two part Loun Sk] Mr. Bkx,i •iporatioii and merely doterm a scheme of cc :liepovrer of J I i.n The Luk! 'C named in- th \*iic!iec;!nd one 'i writing huw ■Kwor Ciuiadii i fdo existence, t '!ipir aj)j)ointrjic 'i'lir be done ? ; Mk. Vjksjm Ti{i.;Loitn( .■':ip|)oned. i^oun Si'r.iic ThkLoiu»C ' '" what princij ''■nninatethem? Mr. Bknj.\m I'lterested in poj; <'oes not chanr,'e t .''Cter ; they are tl I LouT) Ski-loj. «''L'ir judges. If «'"M.ut 'the Jm. tiicMr jndoo.s. L', '"f'l-tochooi^oh ■f!ie f^aiiie. i «h m .Ml lim (Iriiilc. Vou iniiy siiy to a man "you shall consider this Huhjocf,'' but you 1 iiiMot make liim consider it. SiK MoNTA(iUi: Smith : — You see that Justices arc to henr and determine, and if thoy did not, the Court would force tlicm to do so. Mr. 1'kn.iamin :— AVhat we are contending is this, that in the ai)scnce of any ^jH'cial provision tlic statement by Parliament that those are arbitrators, and are to u't as arbitrators ajjpointed by parties wlio have an interest in the subjoct matter if the arbitration, calling iliem " arbitrators" is an indication of the light, in which I'arliament intends them to be regarded by the parties, and marks it jnst as if e;ieh party to this arbitration liaving an interest in it liad named his arbitrator. It ij not a submission by them, but it is a parliamentary enactment taking the place of a voluntary submission of parties. • Tjie Loki) CiiANCELLOK : — TliB consequcncc of your argument is very start- iiiig---that it was the intention of Parliament, after having i)rovided this very careful organizatioii of machinery, to leave the svhole thing to the caprice of the i'lovinces with jogard to revocation. Mk. Bi:y.r.\.M)N : — Tliis is one of the subordinate details. The whole Confed- eration is formed and everything is done. This is dividing one of the Provinces with two parts, and it is a machinery for dividing their assets between them. LoKD Ski.lorne : — Which is essential to the whole scheme. Mr. Ekxjami.n :--I should say not, because the whole scheme has been in • iperation and in L'xistence for years, and the division has not taken place. It is iiiorely deterraif.ingone of those matters which would have to be determined upon :i scheme of confederation taking place, and if this mode fails, it is quite within :lie power of Parii;imeut todetermine afresh— a system of arbitration having failed liid liaving been ioU!id inipiacticable— in what other way that is practicaltic, and I "'hich Parliament can control, a division ought to take place. Tmk Luti!i CiiANCEi.i.on : — Suppo.'o it ran in this way — three persons, one to >c named by the- Government of Ontario, one to be named by the (Tovernment of ,hicbec and one by the Government of Canada, shall determine by an assignment !i writing huw rlie dei)ts, credits, liabilities, produce and assets of Upper and .iiwor Canada are to be divided and adjusted. Then the three jhu'soils ai'c brought, I into existence, then what is to be donc^ Can those who named them terminate their aj)point!Jiont i That is the first question. On what principle can such a ■ ling be done 1 Mk. 1)e.n.;ami.\ : — Supposiiig one of the ])ersons named became a lunatic ? Thk Lorii CiiANCKM.OK : — That is another question ; fortunately, that has not :':ipi)oned. Lord Sir.r.oRNi:: — AVe might all die, you know. TiiK Lord CirANCixr.oR :-- 1 ask one question, and you put a totally different one. "a what principle could any of the three bodies who had named the persons terminate them ? Mb. Eknjamin : — If the persons wlio are to name the individuals are persons interested in poJ;session, calling them a court, or arbitration, or any other name, (loos not change the character of their functions, which are judicial in their ohar- J'Cter ; they are the chosen judges of the parties. LouT) Skmjorn'i; : — Of the Imperial Legislature, not of the parties, " I\Ir. lii.N'.TAMix : — The Imperial Legislature has caused the parties to choose tlieir judges. If "once for all" is there, of courso the argument would be at an I tini.imt the Imperial Legislature has authorized these Governments to choose tVnr judges. Every private individual, without an Act of Parliament, has the I t'lwer to choose his jiulgo.s, and in both cases it ajjpoais to me that the law must. ''': V- th(« same. ; Sii: Ja.mj;.^ VJ. Ci>!.vii,K :- lla.i it no! oi'dered them, not authorized them : K 1^' ■■'' i'n:y' ,,v»j.j«j>.'^,vi, 1. V(j Till". L'ii:i> ( 'iiA.NciT.r.ou :■— 'I'Im'sc pt'iM)!!.-; wlicn cliii.-cii wore not to be tlio ;i.:i.'!its ;tliit is tlio in'inciplc of ;iiljiri;itinn tli >l: until an awaril is iiuulu the tiling Is b) jivri ; it" U a case of princijilc ;inii am>iit. mid the tliiii;: is altoijetlier in hiis- iicnso iiiiti! flie a^vanl isniaile. Tliat is tlio riTif ;— The whole antliority flows from the person appointing in tlio case of an ordinary arbitration. Mr. IJi:.\.).\min : — The Legishitiiie gives thojiower to the person appointing to iiuike the appointment, and therefore, of course, the whole power flows from the no rtv appointing, it is to be observed that the terms used in the api)ointnient were chosen by Ontario. SiK ^[o.vr.vofi; SMiTir : --The authority docs not flow from the donee of the power, but from the donor. Mk. Ill .v.; \Miy :- -This appointment as it is made is evidenced i>y a patent from the Or. wn. T^liy I read th.at patent from the Crown as being in excess of the power given I'::: liamcnt, and set it aside ? i.O!:i> .Sfj.iiOR.NT. : — On the face of it, the intention is to act under the Act of I'arliainont ,ind to do the thing which tiie Crown ought t'> do, Surely tiie addition of the words "diu'i'ia; oiiv Floyal |i!o.isun;" r-uuMt nullify that. Mi: l!i:.v.i ^MiN : — lain not -ayii'g that it nulliHes it. I am only contending lluii it givL- the light t) the Ciown to roi'lace the ])ar'y by another, if it chooses to rovolco iN original apiK'Intnient : in other worJ«, that tliore is nothing in (lie Ai!t of ruili.i.'noni: ti> abrirlgo the ]ir"!ML;'.uivo of the Crown to deprive a party of otiioe :!f the t)ie.H-ir(.- of the Crown, v.-ji'.'ii tli;i.t paity h,-ts not I'lu freehold in the ulUce, or wi t ri ho has not Iweii n'):!iinatod to the oilieo for a fixed term. This is an ni)|)i>;ntiM' 'it bv wioCiviwn of p;>>■.~^.M- nominated to the Crown ; the persons i.oioit.utid, ,:\': -r'.c'a'd and i.anul K>> rlic Crown by the ditlei'ont (iovernmcnts, hut the aiiii'."',;"ineio is by tlio Crov.'t). biii;i> Sk(,i:i;;\i: : -ft is ni t- by ]iieri'g,iti\(' at ail; it is by iiarliamentary ;iiit!i..i-ity. M;;. jb '.. A iiN : - If ':\\^'r: jiatonts aiv C'Oivotly is-iiod, they are certainly p:uents fi'Mii the Crown, and unioss the Crown has violated tho Act of Parliament ill ,-onie y-.\\ in the terms of its ootnmis^^iMii. tin- terms "f its oommission say how iliis patent .-hull nr ought to be regarded. Imi; ]Iai:n;> Pj aoock : -It i- the Co-,ornment, surely, doing it in the name of the (..'rnwii, TiiK Loito CiiA.vcKi.i.ou :--'l"he Crown had no powei' irrespective of tlic Act af J'avliainent Im name a person to decide this ([iiostion. Ml!. Ib.N.iAMi.N : All I have to observe u)ioii the matter is that tlic Govcrn- inoiit of Ontario, which is t' e adverse party in this case, and every one of those (iovernmeiits. construed the Act in the saiiu? way, and acted ur. ler it in the same liv:lit and in tho same view of the authority of tlu> ("rov.-n, and it does seem to nio til, it it is not in their ]iower now to say; "We have all oonii:iaied it wrongly, although we all acted under it in this v/ay.'' Ontario being tho first to set the example, and tlioii say, ''It is all a nullity ; what wo all have done is wrong ; wo had not the ri^'ht ti put into our commis-^ion tloit we would recall it ar our pleasure ; we have not the right to juit into out coniinissiMn that ynu must act with the other arbitra- tiiiv, and thai, acting \viih one is ai.ting vi'itii bdth ; that all that is to bo disregarded and lliat you are to h'ok to iiothiti'^' Init the Act of i'ai'liami'iit." Otherwise, all tliiit wa-' iH'f'di'd wa- to say that the I'lMvinor df Ontario ni' Wi^v Majesty appointed A. b ;■,:■• the aibitrator, under scctiioi 1 I'J id tlii:- Act. withtiut limiting liis pnwers ami witli IXllll ii'l':il t., ih Mir ihe patent had .--.aid, as it inight very l^ i well lia suppose final aw award arbitraii of three ; remains his powi Sir Mk. authoritl it appear where a an award Sir matter, oi Mr. I sha those que; in applvii given to a then the j relation tn the uiajori an arbitrat My L Biilstri.dt'. The deoi^i aeven of tl returned, a bv seven oi mission to ( The writ w und whet he u^'uinst this iinto eii^^t in this retiii writ directO( tile eight sh This is to b( certain, and kII ; and thai a E. 3, old ii argument th erc'ised by tl Thk Lfj Mk. Hei wcdings.'! TnK Lo Mu. IJ|.:t Tn..; J,„ goods, and stj >Ui. i;.- •"^olioitor-Ge?! '"^^r??!^ 83 well liave s:\iil, "Until the ;irl)itration is ooinpletwl and a final award is made." 1 suppose tliat woiiM 1)C valid. The (iiiostion whetlior the rofoionce lasts till the final award is made is nowhere stated in the Act, and the Act does not speak of an award being made, but simply i)rovidc8 that the question shall be referred to the arbitrament of three arbitrators. That question beinsr referred to the arbitiament of three arbitrators, one of the arbitrators resi^^ns and witlidraws. The question remains whether, under those circumstances, the resignation being accepted and his powers recalled, the other two are the three arbitrators wlio are to go on. Sib Rodkut P. Cor.r.iKu : — That is another matter. Mk. Bknmasux : — Now, my Lord, so far as that question is concerned, the authorities that were cited in the Court below and the Common Law authorities, it appears to me, are unanimous in requiring the unanimity of the three arbitrators ^ where a question is submitted to three arbitrators, two of the thi'ee catmot make an award if it is submitted to the three. Sir Baknks Peacock : — Are you now speaking of a public matter, or a private matter, or of l,>v.>th i Mr. Pe.n.iamin' : — I speak both of public and of private matters. I shall contend, my Lords, under the authorities, that, with reference to all those questions which are raised .ibout public or private arbitrators, it is a mistake in applying tliera.What they say asto public arbitrators is when certain powersare given to a body of public officers to act upon the indi vidua subjocts of Iler Majesty then the power granted to a certain numl)er, such as a public magistrate, to act in relation to indivitlual subjects is exercised by that body asa ^j'^r/,';/ corporation, and the majority decide what is to be done, That lias nothing to do with the case of an arbitration. My Lords, the Jirst, authority which I have on this subject is to be found in Bulstrnde. ixige ]0.">. It is a decision in Jlilary Term of tlie Sth of James 1. The deci^ion i- this : A writ was directed to eight per,soii.-5 to be executed, and seven of them returned it cortilicd. 'J'he Court held that tlint writ was inij)roporly • returned, ami that a writ o!' authority being directed to eight jicrsons the return by seven out "f the eight was of no legal validity. " I'pon the return of a cou)- nifssion to ceitify the C!ourt of some proceedings, the case appeared to be this; The writ wa- directed unto eiglit noininatlon/^ and seven of thcni otdy do certify, itud whether this were good -or not was the question, Ileiuy Yelvcrfon excepted ugainst this return that the same was not good, for the writ being here directed unto eig'it .-^peci.dly and by name, all the eight ought to join in their answer in this return, and this wa« the reason which moved the Court to have the same writ directed unto Sir Henry Lyidey as the eighth man ; because that they intended the eight should make the return, ami the return here mnde by seven is not good. This is to be taken as a principle of speech, that here is an enumeration of persons certain, and the .same so done now exclusive to exclude any. but ^ja^jV/vc to include all ; and that this should be so appears by the J'ook of 2 Assi/r;;, fol. 3, pla. 5, and 2 E. 3, old impression, fol. 35, pla. 2 and Book title " Attaint." Then upon the argument the Cou't held that an autliority directed to eight persons must be ex- ercised by the eight and not by seven alone. Thu Loud Ciia.vcki.t.ou : — That is not quite an authority. Mk. liKN.iAMiN : — It was " a commission to certify the Court of some ^•ocdings.'' TiiK Loud Ciia.vikm.ok : — To ceitify some fact. Mi:. I5i:n.iamin' : — Yes, tiiy Lord. TiiK LoiMi CiiA.V(i;i.r.oii:- If there is an authority to eight people to (foods, ■ ■ " ' ■' ■ ' ' • • ■ ■ .. . ■> floods, and seven return un/f'f /mnn, the eighth might return that tlicre are gc^ndr,. .Mi:. l!r,N.i.\Mi.\ ; — That is (piite si>, ^ly Lord. Then " Sir I'^ratuMs ilaeon, Solicitor-Genera!, argued to tlie contrary, ihat the return liere by seven of the prO' lew .1 ^* ■i; «: • ■ i ',r. 'i %.■ ! h :.- ■' it ' 'I i ■■'■ n i:\ «i I'M', ■•.-.■ 1 'W'itsww"'i*?*','i^'?j ig#i-i)^f^" !A. I ■I I I .1 y I V c n F.-*W»" ."••l- oiglit is f(')0n df law (»n the iindingof four, whoarc the niajority of the bivly as..-c-m')led, be that their judgment is the judgment of the whole, and t'nei'eforo tl.') judgment of the ti'irrs. rhen the leatlu-i' must be taken to be found insuflicient 'uid the (lefeii.latits arc justiiicd. On the fiist argument I thought, this que.-ti. ii would turn. on two gtmcral heads (d' inquiry. 1st — What the general rule of h'.w W.I-; in the case of Indies of nuMi cidrustcd with powers of thisTuttnre; whether tliey must .all concur, or whether the rlccision of the majority would bind the whole ? i'lid- -Supjiosiii- !hc l,;ttcr to In; the gcucial rule. whcMier that general rule is to !>r contrv)llcd hy tlic iiiicnt of legislature, ,is collected from the scope and provisions of this Act '. AVith respect to the ilist question I think it is now pretty well ('stabli.--lu'd, ihat wheic a number of j)crs(iiis are entrusted with jiowers. Hot tif mere private, conlidence. l»ut in some respe.'ts of a general nature, and all of them are regularly assembled, the majoiit.\ will conclude the nnnorit_\. and *^heir act will be the acr of tlu; whole."' It is on tin; ground that two can give a decision, but that tin* majority gives the act of the whole. " With a view to this case, those who have met resemble tlu; .-ix triers who have autl'ority todeeide,und then a question arises how they act when they have met. The case i»i Atkyns show^ the opinion of a great Jiuly;e, Lord llardwicke, who was much conversant witli this subject, in oiu,' part of his jinlieial life, that the majority of persons assembled will conoludethe iiiitiority, and an acthy them will he the act of the whole body." That, is the ground, -'•.Vnd that jiartof the Law of (A)rpoiatioiis applies to this ease, that with regard to powers not nu rely privi.te which are to 1)0 exercised by many liersons, pr()vidi;d a suHieieiit nnmJH'r lie a-.-^eudiled, the. act of the majority conchulc- the MMUority, juid becomes flu' act of the whole body." Loud !^i;i.iioknk : -lie does not say " provided all a.-^scudded." J suppose it would he a quorum. Mu. l'i..\.i.\.\iiN :•- In corporations th(( law is so without a iloid>f. If yon have a large Imdy a>sehd)led tlie act of t'x' majority is the act of the meeting; in ether vvonU, •• if that be so, th" aigimieiit diiiwn fron\ the word 'triers' hciiii,' U'-'C'i Mieral Iv in the li.'b'd and ■M''th sections, will not statnl much in our wav. bc'iii II 11 35 .. s' i !i' r i I I tlio jndiriiieiit of four triors in this case i.« tliu jiKl^inoiit of all Jis much as if all had conciiircil," the caso liciiij; that all wtro nroi-ciit and four out uf fiix voted in olio way. " Hut the cjucstion is still open wiiother. <»i> the construction of this particular statute, it does not appear that not only all the j)ersons must bo assern- hlcd but that everyone of them should concur." There was something very pliiiisiblo in that last arfi;nment, but 1 urn now clearly sati.-tied either that all must concur, or that a majority may decide for the whole. There Is nothing in the Act which necessarily leads to a construi-tion that the majority mn.st be eon'posed in any particular manner." LoKi> 8i:m50knk : — In that case, if two out of the si.x had stayed away an^ the four who were present had proceeded, do they say it would bfive been void ? Mk. iJk.n.iamin : — They all say so. Every one of the Judges says so distinctly. I lip.ve tlk; passages marked here. 1 will call your Lordships' attention to page23S. Sir Montaolk S.Mnn ;— It was iu>t nccit^ary there to decide anything more than that a majority would do? It so happened that they were all present. ^Ir. r>i:.N.i.oiiN :- With submission J tliiidv it was necessary, and that is tljo very ground. SiK MoNTAOiE Smihi :- It was necessary to decide that lecause all six were present. Mr. l-K.v.'AMiN :— It is only on (he ground that all sLv were present that they said tho majority loiild decide. l.oKi) Si i.ukkn'k: — Do not they relei to the case before Lord Ilardwicke? Mk. 15i:N,rAMiN : — Yes, but that is the case of corporations. Sir Harxks PKAroi k : — They said this is like corporations in this respect. !Mr. Hkn.iamin' : — Tills ca^hall there fi. re road it to your Lordships. {Airivvrnul for a short iiiiic.) w i!f;: hi I |1||| i i.i ir:?'jt'+-'..J 'i tt tt V s II II ays : ''It is impossible that bodies of men should always be brought : there is often a decroe of coen-iim, and the majority is governed Mr. Til NiAMiN : Now.mv Lord.*', ('hief Justice Kvro.in this case of Gvindleif ,: /!arl> ' ' ' ' ^ - .- - 10 tliink ;i' by the minmlty, and oirc versa, aecnrdjiig to the strength of opinions, tempers, prejudice, and even interests.'' This is in answer to a suggestion that arbitrators were like a jury, that it v.'as no more out of the way to require unanimity of tirbl- tiators tli;iii unanimity of a jury. "We shall therefore not think oiirselve:' bound in this case by the rule which holds in that' -that is jury trialh. "I lay no great stress on the clause of the Act which appoints a majority to act in certain cases, because that appears to have been done for particular reasons which do not apply to the ultimate trial ; it relates only to the assembling the searcl tix are asf.otiibled, four out of the six deliver the judgment of the six, even if the other two do not deliver the judgments. Heath, .1., K.iys, at p;ige 'ill* : *' All must coiiciu' in trying, aii't then though they may luj ol dillerent opinions, some of one opinion, some of iiuother, yet all having iiied, the majoi'ity shall bind." Then Kooko .1., t^ays, at page 211, again in 4:^'.; Hi'-'t'w...-. "^••^nssyj .'^'^■i"' ■ '■^f^r-"^.': 7;?'v.; 3'x ■' i 30 lie goes oil t<)?;iy at tlio top of tlio next pai^o : "Wo shall not advance public justice by ?;i\ inir that th(.mi,'h a majority of tlio triers, who have had the ad vantaiifo of all the ni- f(M'inatioii to he derived fioin the whole six whocoinpnsc the trilintial, arc of opinion that the leather is nnserviceal>le,«itill any one man shall have it in his power to prevent a tindiiitj I'V hu!dini>:uut against the rest. All six must iind()iil»tedly try ; but does it not tiseiefuru follow that they must all decide the same way. Each man is, after due exaiiiinatioii and eiupiiry, to decide according to the best of his judgment, and the questii.'ti is to be determined by the opinion of the majority." Xow, my Lords, that is that case, but when wc come to tlie (jucstion of arbi- tration thf. nearest authority t',' the case before the Court to bo found is in the cases of [kth-riiit/fiiii V. Jin/>i)iso}), -Ith Mceson and Wchh;/ 608, and Wintcringhamv. Jioherfsoti, 27 Law Journal (ICxoheijuer). page 3oL Now, my Lords, the case in 4lh M^t-^"ii ">,'/ ]\'.-LJ>i/, ])ago 008, shows the extreme punctiliousiies.~ ? the Couit ill receiving hu uwarJ,. which is not in precise accordance with the 3rt). of the snbniissi'iii. Jly an agiveuieiit of reference the matters in dispute in ; >. ciinse were rofenxd r.) tv.o arbitrators, with a ])Ower to them to appoint * uir.f)i;e. It was also iign.'L'd that; the costs already incurred i^hould abide tlio vH'cnt of the award, and that riie costs uf the reference should be in the discretion of the ;ul>itrator. Then havitifr pruvidod that, it went on to say ; "And th;- the parties, niid each of tiiLiii, should and would well and truly stand to, ol)i'y.-d)ide by,pcrform, fnUil and kevp tlic award of the two arbitrators and their .saicl npiro." What Imiipenod w.w tiiat the arbitrators did not disagree and did not api-oint any umpire. Tliey ni:iih" nn award, but the Court held that l)ecausc the word was "ami" instead of '•or'" the case wa> 'piite too (lonl)tful — that was tin; unanimous decision of the (\iiut - ro pcitiiir thcai to consider the a\Vard as binding. Till; 1,m!;|) Cji ANijKt.i.oi; : -Ti'.ey did not attack the man, l)ut tiiey did not iiicati 1.1 ilicidu the posititMi of law. Mi: 111,:. ; \".!in ; --Wtrit they t^aid was tliis: "Tiie words of the agreement arc not tlu'.t !!;e atliiirators or their ii'iipirc, but that they and their umpire shall act in the tnaiffr. If fii(i word ''or'" had been in the place of "anil," your construc- tion iniLiIii I'-.-ovai'. It is much doubtful to grant an attachment upon." Sii: M'lM M.ii: Iv S.Miiii :— The Court of Exchequer were \ory strict in those day.-. j\Ii:. IJiNi x-Mix : -I'ndunbtedly, my Lord. But at all events, we find with what pf'rfc't regard to the terms of the submission and agreement the Court deals with such matters : that when the reference is to two arbitrators and an uin))ire, and the arltitrators hi-ve not called i<\ an umpire because they did not disagree, tin; Court has ludd that still it is a very doubtful matter whether in the absence of the umpire the two arbitrators could give an award, in consequence of the language by which the parties agreed to abide by the award. Hut the same i|M.'stii)ti catiu; bi.d'ore the Court in tlie case of Wb)(crinon, to which r just calli.'i! attention in the 27th Law Journal (Exchequer), page 301. Loi:i) Si:i.i;oi;ni: : — Those are botli cases of private arbitrations. ]\Ii;. I'i'.N.i \Mi.v : — Yes, but they are cases as to the necessity of all agreeing wlicic the lefeicnce is to three. That is the point t>ii which I am now calling your Loi(MiijK' attention to the anthoiities. l.ouo S' I i;i;i;\r, ; — I tliinU it would not bo dis)uited in the case of a private aiiiili'iitliin, uii|f-s thi'i'O i M i:, r>'." .' \ v'l.N lurtlicr. siimething expressly to the contrary, that that is so ? -ff that is not contested, of rnurse, t need not argue it "yqmtrii^y > HS*WTit. y ,»»v >r '■■l^^^Pfi^'"^,'*?'':^^?^^^^^ 'Y^s i^/'***?''C iV-.'^-i ■ V ■ r^, r ,1 • ;irlillrati<)i Slit ^ tion. Mi: tliiit if til M.v l,onls, liavd I>c'i.'i riiiliaiiu'ii (litViiroiitlv irulividiial I.OKl) iiilMtratid's Mn. l,o> saj J Mi{. 11 mi^sioiuTS iiitliDiitios with ail sii cnlliiij: tlioi ailiitr.ititi!* liast'alkMl t lias (ii-.lilii'aMo t( irioiid ; that all three iiui -ays a partii iliosauie, ail award of t\\ JiOKK •; iiii'iit, for \n "tlior niaiini ^fK. i!i liOKi) !S III" I'arliiuiu' Mk. Hi K' ilftormiii is th i.iilni!. t'llninals. "-arfrr^S -|>iili!'l ill a privato ai'hiLra it ration ; I tlo not 'lispult! that at all in tii(! casi! of a private aihitiatiun «li!- i iicinlin^ on tlio I'onsrnI of tin; partio,^. i Siu MoNTACiri': K. S.Mrrn :— That cannot bo di.-pnii! : tion. ' Mil llr.N.iAMiN : Tlii-n in tin; case of a privato arltitratinn, wo liavo ita:j;roi;nt I do, with all stdnnission. attach the i,'ieate.-t importance to the lait^naite of the Act in callin;^ them arbitrators, as desiirnatintj their powers, rarlianient ciudd call them ariiitrators or commissioners at tlii'ir pleasure, or valuers oi' a Special t'onrt; bni, it has called them ar'Mtrators, and our aiuinnent is thai in callini; tluan arl)itrat.ors it has (lesin;nated liy the use of that very term the principle.- of law which are to ^nvcrii the tri!iui;al. My Lords, our arii'iiment is this : That in statinrs, FarliamcMit has^aid, the powers wliicii are ijranti'd ai-esiu'.h poweis as arc irranted to arbitrator ; ami that it isipiite an inadmissible mi'de of constiiiiii^' an Act of Parliament to iliaii^'c the Wi«rd nseiiiif to jud^iueut is to the judi^nient of three men who aie l,o act .ih ai'biti'ators, that is an in(iii'atinn that the law i'elati\'(! to aibiiiations is to jj;overi( '!ic pri>ceedin!j;s o^' the jiartics so denominitcd iiy Act of Parliament, and that wc c wi I^iimw wiiat the law i- as to throe arbitra tors, and the .selection of the words ••thri'(> arbitrators'" carries with it tlui law ijiplicablo to arbitrators, how it is admitted, and I am tnld not to ari;uo it by n»y trioud ; that if A and IJsubmit their tpiarrel to the ari)itraiiient of thr"e arbitrators, all three must concur, or no valid award. Then lam told tliiil when Parliament -ayr, a partieidar matter shall be. subnutted to throe arbitrators, the meaning is not the same, and that although the three arbitiators refuse to concur in an award, tho award of two is gooti. J/OKi) Siii.KoKNK : — In a matter which requires, according to the Act of Parlia- ment, for public reasons to bodetermiiu-il and which e,i!in"t bj iletermiued in any "tlicr manner. Mk. I)K\,r.AMi.N : CJanutit be determined in any other iii.inner under the Act. TiOKi) Si:i.i!(ii;.\i; : — Or without the .\ct. because it is clear that withotit tho Act III Parliament it could ni)t be determined at all. .Mk. Hknmamin :--l»ut with an Act of Parliament dilTeienlly wiu'dod it might 111' ileternuned. i-oKD Sr.i.iioiJNK : --In tlie.se pi'ivate ca^-cs the con.-eijueinjc of the arbii ration '.liliiii.'; is that pe->ple are K-fl to their rights at law to be decided by the ordinary '•ilitinals. .1 u '.■;i ;). • R ikm m>: vm \4;i-'. Vd f?l!v!r I V.J r''*^**'! ^■i p y>.jn wy ,'^j*f^!Wf | i; »^ i^ ■.>«*iR»- .'"■.t- -W-' 'H ;}s Ml I>i;n.i \M(N Yus. Siij Md.NiAiiii: K. Smi I'll Aim! in all tlicsu cmpi^ tlio comtn, in carl}' tlriic^ \\i.'\v, rcliichiMt tn liiivi! tlitir jiiristlicnoii diistcd l>y incaiis of iiiliitr.-itioii. Mi;. liiAMAMiN : — ilowt-V'T tliiit niiiv 1 ic, u ImI [ mi t-;i_yitn; is tins. tliiit what- ever may 1)U flie (;i>i!stioii.< in din- ciitsiiiii Id'twrcii tlicm tu Miliitratois, il w.is witliiii tlii' puwer ol' riiiliamunt to (Ictermiiio ofir inoilt' or ;mi>ili(,'r of st'ttiiii!^ tliC"^o 'iiiostion*. IxitwoiMi tlit; two Provinces. It iiii^lit, Iiivi- siilil oiicli I'ioviiici.' sIimII nicsunt a ca-c before tlio kSiipreinc Cuiirt of tlif hoiniiiion of Catiiula, anil tlien; shall ho a trial then', and tlioii an appial to Jlor Majon^v in I'rivv (.\»iiiicil ; Inil here \V(! are (!i;alin it is worded, and I'arliaiiient says what \vc mean is this, that tlii'-e iji'ieTtioiis are to be decided by arliitration, and v.heii we onee got the leu'al iii'-aniiiL' of the w^rd uiliiti'atif»n, and the powers of arbitrators, nnle-s \vc apply t!;:ir 'o tlie eonstriieri. Ill of the Aet, what is there left for ns to .iiiply ? Is it a maf:(;: -•!' iiiiix diseieMon in the tribunal which is to deteriiiiue it? Is it a matter for yi.iir Lordslii]vs. under the circnnislaiiees of the ease, to say wo will tre;it thisas if It were a inatt'ir >d" valners. or we will treat this as if it were a matter of cominis-io',e!> '. No, ^ays tlie Aet, treat it as a matter of arbitration, dote 'nine " itr.it! >i.i. what ari>K Loi:i) when pow'j! i Miliitrafions. tliiiiLr e.\!i!'''=-t 'I'.N! -Th <1> dc view w liicli prevails tliat nriaiiiiidry is necessary uiven to three persons doe- not n ii'.'ip't.s wb:c.!i govern arbitrations, an d then it is admitted that if it was an .'U'liitiation bi'tweeii piivate im lividiials all three must act. Tlieii I call for that winch 1 nave a rii.Mit lo <-.\\ on tl le other ^ide to furnish — 1 i;iii.-.h. ae initiiiii '. llcTc 1- till' 'A' f 'I it disttni;ui-lu d bet low CIO wi'on a inivate and a tl lev c istm- • "!ie 1.- pid)bc arbi- icn lo ii'i;, 1 am told that when pow is arc confided to .. nnn j i i pfpuw i PI ii„ W.IV I ^«tVJ,^ tS??i -T ;■ ^ \-rmmK v'-.».'-iW-v- ■'■,■>■■ '% ■it .■ 4-'. ■V I- fcS .lii.-iic'i.-.-; (»f ,.c(s. it lia- ■iii'v iiii'ot ;i •I'llt. till.' O] l,i.i:ip Mi;, n, Tin; L I! .^IIIlllllOM ViU. Ill Tin: J. ^rl^ r.i ■ 'I'm: Ln Mi:. |{|. (■'uiii't hold ('(ii'tioratio!! The L .'f trviriir, Mi:'. Voi1. tl .o,,l. Tli;it ;ii!)itnit()r. I 'i'iii cif till' ;ii .t he Ii:iii lioi riicv h:!^] to :.'.>o/|. Tliiit iMt :ui arhitr; l.'ii:i) Si I'l-^i', '■aiithdi tlu;_V shall liol liLTt'hy ei-i|ii)' ii!ii|)irc or to iny of the ii lwii'.'5 oil tlii>< Mi;. i5i:: :iii liiiipiro liol ;i.v, iiml that I 111' olijoctioii make tlu! a\v;; ;l!l lllllpll.; no I'licii' was no «"ii!i| havo I) Sii; Mov ''iith'T t!i:in I l'ii\;itc award Mi;. Ili.v .f.i .",;) .Iu>ti('c>uf tlie I'l.iC''. n' ( !(>nmiis>I(iii(Ms, t<^ (lilViMi'.nl imlividiiiils, t() perforin certain ,rf>. it li;i> hi'i'ti oi;c;ii<'iin!illy tlcH-iilcd tli;it \vlu;ii tluiso individuMl.s iiKHit, id! toi;otl)or •icv meet us a ijuls'i C/'orpirat.ioii or as a. (fiLaHl (^)iirt. in which, ulioii all are pro- Miit. the opinion nt" the majority is the opinion of the Court. i,iii;ii yi:r,r.oi{\r, : — Mnst th(!y all bo present':; Mi;. I'l'.N.iAMiN : — That is what wo contend. Tin: LoKu ('ii.\N;c:i;i.i,uii: — I thought in tlie case yoii cit(!d it was likened to till' c.tse itf a Corporation ; Mr. 1'i:n.iaaiin : — The case of the six triers? Tin: LoKn Ciian< ki i.ou: — Yes. Mi:. IjKx.iami.n : — It came to he likened to aCorporation in the sense that the Tdiirt held that a majority might decide, Init they also held it was unlike a ('(irporation in this that all must he present. Tin: T.oi:!> (,'iiam la.i.ou: — That is to say they must all have an opportunity ..f trviiiir- Yo'.i ;!i',i.-t, not I'xclinle any of them. i\[n, 1')1:n.iam!.\: — Tlioy said that all must lie present. J call yonr Lord- .'I'pj' attenti'.in no.v (.> the decision in Wintcrintjlnun v. h'ohert-^on, wliiclii I men- ;ioncd inst now. ill tiio 27th Law Jonrnal, page .".01. In that case there was iloiiht whether a third party who was to hn present at the aihitration \va.s exercis- ing the powers ot' wn umpire or an arbitratoi-, and whether nnder the terms of iiic !-n!iinission he wi- to he considered an umpire or an arbitrator, and the Clint held that i e wa-^ an ninpiie r.nder the terms, and that the award was thero- fuiv i;ood. tiie Court exjuvssly staring that if lu> had been a third arbitrator the ,i\v;ii'il would n it ii.ivi- !(cen liood. bccnuse all three must havi; coticuned to make it -01)1. Tli;it w.is the iM •!• of two p'Tsoiis appointed by the parlies and a third. TIk\ qui.v-ri(Mi w.is tiiis. whctlici' liic third person was an umpire or was a third M'litrutor. Hell! by il,r Coi'.i't the awaril is good, becanr-e upon a proper construc- ;inii of the agrecm.'ut this third pi'i^on is not a third aibiliaior, Imt an umpire; if he had bes'ii a tiiir.i aibitrator. of course the award would not have been good. liicy h;iil to det'-iiniiie t!i-it (jiiostioii in order to decide whcilier the award was In (>iir onmion lie is iH I ;:..iii|. That is the cotulitiou jnccidcut of tl.j decision, ii'if an arbitrator, '/;/■'* award gix.d. I.oini Sri i;>!;Ni: :— That (loos not seem to me to niei'l the diflieuity in this ii>c, 'aiitlioriry to make an awaid within a limited time - jnoviso, that in case tlioy shall not ai^ree in their said award it shall be lawful for then'., and they are liuieby ei-ipowcic! by writing, i^;e., to appoint another inJependent per.«oii to be iiiiipire or to eoiiLMir and jiMii with them in considering and determining all or my (»f the matters hereby referred to them." 1 do not ipiite see how that la'ars on this argnineiit. Mi;. I'lON.iAMi.v : -()i!ly in this way, that the Court hud t<.i determine iie was ;in iiiii])ire before they could say the award of two was li'ood, because they expressly Mv, and that i.> ,he langiiaie of I'aroii Watson: "I an of the Kume opinion. Tlic objections ni"((l all come to this that the thirtl party had no authority to iiiikc the award. I thinlc that (he power given by the submission was to ajipoint in imipii.: not a third arbitrator, ami that an niupire was appointed to ;ict as such.'' I'licrc was no powfM' to appoint a third arbitrator ; if there" «iiiild have been that the three iiiu.-t havi' made the award. Sii; MoNTAiii i; \\. Smii n: --'I'liere is nothing in that ease which carries you fnillier tlnin the admi.-sioii maile by the Alliuiiey (i<>neral, 'lial in the case of a I'livate award all three mii-t join. Mi;, lb .\.i AMiN : 'I'lieii wiieic i,'- the law of the <'oiiti'a't ^ iid been, the olTect ;^i' 11 '?.'•: 'r,'t'i,Kj,.',, .'I-V'l'- ill' 1. ^:.' \'A\ pie. .( 'VJ mm E2>. r^t- ■ ',1 ; ^»')'7^rap;y%y^y4'iy'i''fi^^»Ai N.iAMiN :- I caiiiior. liml iuiythinj;- anyuliorc to tlio contniry. Till. I-'ji;ii f 'iiA\ri:i,i,ui:; — 8u|)[i(kh' you li;iv(! ;i provision for reference to two ill tlie ii.itnn; I't" M private arhit ration, and if they do not aLcree, i)0\ver to appoint II liiird tliat is tanianioiiiit to saving tliat tin; majority shall liind, otherwise wluvt ia till' olijoct (jf ;;i>|iointin^ a third. .Mk. Uiix.'AMiN : — Of course if it in said, if thcj do not agree they are to appoint a third, on.- uuuld say that that carries with it the idea of an umpire ; but if yon a|i[iiiin>; three arbitrators then the distinction at fiiice arises that you liave not got a case in which, on a division hct ween the two, tlie third may decide it ; you liave a c.irie in which all three must concur from the origin as to the proper considerAtion to lie given to the sid)ject and the jwinciple by wliich it is to be governed, and in discussing together to come to a conclusion. Till-: Loiii) CnA.NCEMXiij:— We cannot shut our eyes as reasonable men to the nature of this particular case hen;, that there were two bodies who were princip . iiitcreste:), Ontario and (Quebec, and the third body might be considered to hold a siirrof even balance between them, at all events not to l)e a partizan on one side or till! other, and that with the ciieuinstance that there are three referees, three pL'isons. t<>as'.;tTrain the particulars of these assets— of itself suggests that it is a case where the inajoriiy is to hind, does not it ? }i\\i. Hi.N.iAMi.v : --I can only say to (hat thai on a previous occasion when three ari.itrators v.ere appointed. ■■■' "" x- w * TiiF boi:!> ( ii.VNcKi.r.oit :--We must not u:^e words for tbe purpose of blinding our eves, but; v,e nni.-t loi)k at wha! the real substance of the transaction is. ^^l:. JbMA^Jiv: I wa.> referring' to the real substance of the transaction in the jiifviou? arltiir.u'oti betwe-jii thi'.->' tv.o piMvinces, ami when Parliament on a pre- vious occ.i.-.ioii i.-rabii-!ied .w, arhilratioii between them it di.'iermined having estub- •1. .^■•)^s tiiat two should decide and it iias not so determined in tlir, ll.'viii:,'' t!;ai :;iiti'. I'^lcnt arlitration between the.^c very two parties '•all Irirdiy think ihatthat \-/onld have been oniitted on tlio second line purpo.-c : having iicfoie them ;he precedent of what they lisilCU .MiT'i- i. pi''^--ci'.t ;m--. IrcfolV tli'-t!l -. ii,T;i-ioI) L-N--- lliiij do!!i' ill Vi-.v three sho v !!.■: ,1,1 torii!»'r arliitiMtjoi), w licie they declared that the majority of iltcidc, in tlii^ e.isi.! thev havo ahstaincd. from so declaring, and ivi' Icfi til ; liiutti'i', iheitd'ori', to ihe gem lal principK ndiicli says, that a power to three persons, aw, and it is in I'litiletrei ;i ov an agency granted to, or an auflioritv u;iven iiiii- le <.'.\"i' M'li liy iree, ciiiiihenl. unv.n iiioso w the tl ,ho ileeltiP'' 1 1 iial IS the licneral laile ere is an hat pi'iiieiple that exception r 4^ (•\e"ptIoii ill this ea-e lo point out on Mow, my I.oids, so far as the exceplion resting upon authority goes, there pre two ea.-es in r,v>\ Term Reports, which I may as well call to your Lordships' atten- tion. One is the cn.se of 77i'' I\in : act ill t!i distiiii;n from an the Cons after aii action m a mat tor draw fi'oi liii: how f,u iniist cone yii])pos!ni. and oxj)iv suppose t! thk'. T]] tliink one u'liat is vo iure, goes to express fested. Ti tliat one pe hjgoinn; ai ThU T^ 'joiiiid him Lor? done to ma, liavc hiid h; jMk. L'l 'tL'fore ^-our !ocutor_v jiii fullest "extei; are pioeent deciHion of t ''(' r('con]ci|, I'liee eiiiiiini >^ "SBHi -u. . " ' ■•*ti^-6v>'- r 41 ■Jt .. . uf tlie Pear(l Klizaljutli, i^iiriiot. hy the Justices se))arately, is bad." The two meeting together would have made it ijood. Tlie two signing: the appointment separately made it bad. There was an absence of tlio concurrence of judicial minds, of the meeting of the minds required to make the appointment, or, as we say in our case, to make the award good. There must be if there are three arbitrators tlie concurrence of three minds to make the award good. Tlie three must meet together and their minds must coiiA.ur in what is done. The Loud Chanckllok : — Do you mean agree ? jMu. Bkn.iamin : — Yes, I meun agree. The Lokd Oiianceli.ok : — Or exercised i!pon what is lo be done? Mk. i>EX.iAMiN : — I mean agree and I say fruin the time, whetlicr rightly or wrongly, there existed but two arbitrators, there ne view, and the third -i dilferent view ; suppose that were valid, and suppose that were the case, IIkmi what do you say to this? The tlirue do meet, they expro.-s their views and it turns out that two think one thing, and a third thinks the other. Suppose the thirrl says, I see what is your view is "lor, mine, and I will not go my further with you, "!i,I, there- fore, goes away and does not come back, and the other two proceed then formally to express in an instrument which they sign the view which they have inani tested. Then do you say, supposing it to be a case where the mn' rity can bind, that one person, the dissentient, has it in his power to stop the whoie proceedings by going away under that state of circimistances '. M« 'Jknjamkv : — I should say he had. Till-: LoKi) CnANCEM-oi< : — Though if he staved in the room that would havo bound him clearly. Lord Sia.iiouNK :-7-That is on the assumjition of wiiat has been sometimes done to make a marriage good in some lioiiian ('atholic countries. They might have laid hands on him and lockeil the ieseni-e ot the llii'co ci'nimis;'.ioiiei's at the deci-ioii which was made, was a decision in rolatlon to ll-l 4< >"■!:■ m: ■ . V'^^'' ?.'^!I IWlMl'Jt!»!qj!i i l!! i i ' iypt'^M i y «!r^ ¥ ■'■:', it. •ft '■ 42 tlie basis on wiii'jh tlicy would tluM-ciiftor proceed to enquire into the subject iiiHtt' r of tlic a'.viird. Thenceforward there were no tlirce present, tlioiuioforward von tiiid sittini^ after sitting; at which one was not present and in wliich the other two hoard ar^wmoiits, one being the ai'bitrator for Ontario, healing liis own Coun- sel, supporting his own view, and the other the arbitrator for Canada, listening to that unchecked — the arbitrator for Canada, who is said to be a Colonel, I sec he is called (Jolofiel Gray. Hearing nothing against it with the arbitrator for Ontario and the Counsel for Ontario preoccupying his mind and iilling his ears with all the rights of Ontario,' those of Quebec being kept in the back ground and the whole proceeding ex 2)ar(c, so that it is no wonder, under such circum- stances, that the result is unsatisfactory to the party against whom the decision is made, it is perfectly certain there has been here an e.v ^Mrte decision against Quubec, and is that ex parte decision on a matter concerning tlie interests of Jler Majesty's subjects in two provinces to be considered final under proceedings such as are now developed before the Court — one party absent the other party repre- Bcntcd by the arintrator, one of the Judges, tlie second Judge |.resent — the law rC'iuiring three, with his mind preoccupied with the idea that the conduct of QucI'L'C has boon ?nch as in his judiiment ought not to have been pursued by Que- bec, and hib mind preoccupied v,-itii the idea that he is there only to determine and to assent to determine when Quebec and Ontario disagree, and if they agree to assent to what tliey agree to, and ri;en lie hears nothing but tlie side of Ontario ? The evidence brought before him i.- Ontario's evidence. The Treasurer of the Province who comes before liitn tliis third arbitrator, the arbitrator of Canada, and the arbitrator of Ontario is the witness called cn^ parte, Quebec not present, and under these circumstances there two parties proc(!ed with the arbitration that is to bind people of another Province, one of tier jMajesty's colonial ]io?8cssions, ana they come before your Lordships and say, this is the sort of proceeding that Far- tianient meant wlion they passed that Act. Can it be conceivable that if such a case luid I'ten sul'mitred to Parliament as one which might occur, that Parliament under tho;e circiirn-tances would iiuvo said let proceedings go on e.n j)ar/c against OMo of rht'se two Provinces, let it not be heard, let it concur as the ])enalty of its own iibstinacy, a^id let the other side get all tlie advantage it can Irom ex parte ]tvoL'eoui!ig-,.f.,''y-.?/'A; arguments and c.rjxo'fi^ eviduJice. I cannot think, tny Lords, that if that result had been submirted to Parliament, as one tint could possibly be entertained by any tribunal in determining the rights of thuse two Provinces, that the li-k nf a continual and lankling sense of injustice which must always abide with a cwbiny wlilch, under thc^e circumstances is condemned, '.voiild Jiavc been sanctioned by P.irliament or by the Crown. LoKi) SKr.noRNK : — 1 suppose if that argument is correct under the foinicr arbitration, with all the careful provisions that you read, one arbitrator might have defeated the whole thing at any time by choosing to go away before the meeting. !\Iu. P- K.N.I AMiN : — There was a provison that a majority must govern, and therefore one could deliberately agree to that. Loud .Si:r.noK.\K : — I did not hear you read any provision that the majority were to govern in the absence of the third, ami your argument seems io be, that oven if the majority did govern, it was necessary for all to be [iresent. Ml!. P.i;n.iamin : — I am now arguing that all three nius.t concur, but if I am wrong on that point, that it might possibly be the case that if all three were jM'escnt it might by posNibility be held that two out of the three could decide, that It IS uutof tlie ipicstion to determine with all suI>miftsion to the Court, of course I iiin stating my argument a little vehemently. TuK Loi:o Ci(.\.Noi;i.i,'(i: ; -The rcisult of that must be iiiKim'mity, because lio cnn preve:^t a dcci.sion by simply walking out of the room. •' Tt^W^i^f VR'I'ilSK' ■■•■" T >yy iw ; ^yp JW' y . ' v ' f wtMn r . ' y J. rf? ail I f ' ^^jf»»i r. M CnA\( Kf. LOU : — lint decisions are not given so rapidly. If he sees a decision approaching, all he has to do before it is actually delivered is to walk out of the room. AIu. Bkn.iamin :— If, when it approach.es the final award, he finds, notwith- standing all he c.in say, that it is predetermined to award against him, I Bay,under these circ!unstaiicos, if he goes away there is no award possible. TiiK LoKi) CiiA.NcKM.oK : — Evcn although it says the majority shall bind ? Mr. Ijknmamin : — No, not when it says the majority shall bind. Then he would go away at hirf peril ; he know.s that the majority may bind, TuK LoKi) CiiANTKrxoK : — 1 thought you said that in cases where t|ie majority may bind, still they must all be present. Mit. DicNJAMix • — I have the te.xt of the Digest of the French and Roman Law, wliich says th:;i: whore the majority must govern all three inustbe present. Ti;k Loud CiiA.Ni ir.r.oij : — That is what I wanted to come to. Then if so,the provision that tlio majority shall bind is really neutralized, is destroyed, because the dissentient one may always absent himself at the critical moment, and so the majority are paralysed. Mi:. I>i:x.ia^[in : — Unless provision is made, as in the Act of Parliament, to which I have called attention. L'lUi) ScF.BORNK : — I r> l'--i" V. ^'>:-^i :m? "f ,' II Inl (iJ III oa C'l fill I'fl tin re!, pre uh Cull to V two wit! Il iioii: pr« u l,iii;i> Siii.iioUNi;: — Tlicn \v!iv t^lioiiM not tlie same conseijiioiiros fuUow if the \.w iiiipliiNl tlio s;iiiio power fo tlin mil joiifv ;i:\.i.\Mi.\ Mk. J :-l h lavc iic'vt r toiiiul tliiit in ;my law ipjKisIiif,' it were so 'Mk. 1)I:n.iami\ : -- 1 f it can lie foini(i in tliu law tlieii J slioiiM iiavc to give up inv case. It tlic? law declart'S fliat in tlio ease of an a))|iuintnicnt "f tliree the iii'ijority shall ck'ciile in thy alistncc of tho thiid. \.o\M Ski.p.ounk : — 1 think yon wt'io a littlo hasty in ;i(linittin;r that tiiiiler thu Act of J'arliamcnt which you have read, which says the majority may (leiidc, that they may decide in the nhsciice of the third, '^'uii are not hnund by that :uimisriion of cour>;e. Mm. Bex.iamfn' : — I say if the tliird iimler the Act being appointed declined to attend \ipon beinij notified the two are authorized to give an o]>inion under tlie Act. LoTJD Ski.ujknk :— Then I gay why should not that equally follow if the law imj)liod the satne power to the majoriry thouu'h not expressed in the Act? jMu. 3>K^.IA^;l.\■ : — 1 do not deny ir. LoKi) Ski-ijjk.vi-: : — That redncf- it to the single (juestion whether the ina]OMty couh! aooide : Siu RoKKKi I*. Corj.Ti-u: — I thou;^lit you fell bad' on a second jiosition, that even suppusiUj^ two could decide if all were present, still two could not decide in lie all 1 ;ncc of the other. iMu. ]5l■.^•.JA^rl.^• :-- Xot in the altsence of the other; that the third nuist be !Kititied to he prrsoiit . Sii: Mor.Kur 1'. tJor.i.iKU .•--You say either present or notified I Mu. ]jE>ma>;i\ ;--( 'r declining- to attend after proper notilication. If ihe l;iw says the three or tlie majoritv may decide under such circumstances T should not lie i^repan • 1 on trnd- -mv nniinrs m IV 1. more valiant- Imt J should not hi" |;reii:ired to co;;r> iid tliat upoji the three Ix'iiig a]i|iointed, two agreeing upon a from whicii the third dissents, and the thinl refn-iiiir to come to the uC('i>ioii lll^'C^i!l^ tol lavij ilecision unnoimced, that the two havinir told him they were :\\\i(.ii;, because I should say that the third would be, under fiicli circumsrances, ci'M-i lered in law as if he were in iltteiuianco, and that his lefasal to be present could not prcjudife the arbitration, and could not prejudice till) t'MMUS on wlsicl! the arbitration h.id been gratUed, namely, that two should dci^!ii!c, though J do insist that on no occasion could two decide on a question in relation to which, the third had not been heard, nor had an opportunity of cx- ]irt.>siiig an o[)inion. and upon which they had not conferred. In all cases in which tiic majority may decide they may decide upon a diilerenecof opinion after CdMicrriiig opinions and considering; but the two could not meet alone and decide ;l point in relation 'o which the third had not been consulted a. all. Snt J AMI'S W. (Joi.vim: :— Except, as you admitted just now, having been (Inly notified he voluntarily absented himself. ]\[i;, 1)i;n.i AMIS' : - Hut that must be in relation to something with reference to which there must have been a conference and opinions compared, not that the twii having told the iitlier they were going to meet could di^cide on a subject willioiit his Siii presence o n whicii tliev iiad had no conference whatever. A^;I■:s \V. ( oI,VlT,l'. 'i'hen. if he d is-ioii ted fi om somctninir on wliieii ieii iiai. 1 had no coiiferi'iici', he might by his volmitary absence put an end to the ;uliitnition. jMu. i5i:\.iAMi.N : That has been the law of arbitration fruiu the time of the lloiijiiu Diyest, ?;5i«ri¥>'' .■'^rfjjp^^s*-^^?'^^'^^*^^ p;^. ■ym.' n^ S>^ IMAGE EVALUATION TEST TARGET (MT-3) .^' ^,V ^. 1.0 I.I |50 l"^" 2.5 2.2 12.0 1.8 1.25 1.4 1 J4 -< 6" — ► ^/ ^ ^ /] ^;; /A ''W '/ Hiotographic Sdences Corporation 33 WEST MAIN STREET WEBSTER, N.Y. H580 (7U) 873-4503 iV ^ V ^^ -'\ c\ \ 1^\''"o'^ c;5^ ^c^- ..^ ^f^ ^ -<*. > /. o /A ^ ^ i/j (/. i ) ■ •■,' ■ii-'r^'! Bav 16 '■'^tP''. .latec' lv;72 i,; ' ,: I ^^ ^''''^'^^''''''Vv'*- » ^vl.iel - ' '' '«'«'^>"8 m e,>J:, or ton '^J^cr, ,:,r ,a,!,,,,s ;, con '^. ' I"' ''"=^ '-^'"J ''f''ive auH , ■ k • "^"^ ^" *''« 6'«b- ^^'tlicr..! rn.,rn fl.^S pl^rf "'';"\"^ "'^ '""'fi^^ c;^2., !''"''? ^'' " ^^''f'aO' ^^'''^^- A dllTeron rru?;' :^ :"'^ T^' ""'f« in ho . 7^' 'M"''"''''' ""'' i'«' /"-•'•'^on.. are ehar-^o In- M.m '"'"'":' ^" l"'^'^'"'! f;. n,a to,' .? 'I',.'''"'''"' '« ''ender t I r'*^;',i.t'l »IA,' !^v. ,; rvw f't" State., lavh„.,lou'.> tl. ''«='^.">".h arc ropui't,.,! of th T^' . ' ^'•''''^' ''«''« tor :'"^!-"tors Mn.8r unite h", a u'h"" '■"'^' '^ ^^'•-'•"' i mntif'^ f'""' ^'•<^'" ■ .■ '■ - ' -■'".V ■'t' - ■ ■■;,*. (it » , -• T-*." ■.■'VSi/|.' ' ;■■■-/.' . l-^f^w^f ■< ••■ ^ fSri-'iii'iic' i: n ( :,'i 1 F^''iSr'-- 'J I »; «,* J- A A % ■;( hi Now, my Lords, anotlier puiiit wliicli my t'licjid siiys is not open to mc (and on wliich of course I must (submit to wliiit your Lordships may be pleased to dffiide on the subject, but I ennnot conceive tii;it tho ))oint i-; not op.in) ia this, tiiut I may not show on the face of the awiiid and on tiie face of the proceedings of the arbitrator.-' pointed out in tlic special case that tliey decline to exercise some uf tlio authorities vested in them and that that makes their award nul!. We have put upon our points that the award is null and voiil as it appears on tlie face of the special case, and I propose now to })oint out to your Lordships that on the face of the special case the aibitrators declined to fake into consideration certain matters sul)mitted to them, on the mistaken supposition that they were not author izod to consider them. Thar, my Lords, i.>, as well known, ascertained ground on wliicli the validity of an award may be impeached, and the argument certainly, 1 should suppose, may be made ore t^nus without the necessity of supplying it in writing to the other side who will have aii ample o])portiinity to repiy. Now, my Lords, the grounds on which I say that the award on its face and the proceeuiiig.a of the arbitrators render the award null and void is tliis, that cer- tain powers were delegated t»v.d that they had no aiithority to exercise them, and have decline;*.! to exercise tlieui. The law on the subject is laid down by Lord Cottenlmm in the clearest manner in a case in the 4th ^[yliie it Craig. The .\rTORNKv-GEXKiiA.r. : — I do not want to interrupt my friend, but I must lie taken to r)'.'urc>t again that he ought iu>t to l)e allowed to go into this point, because it dof> not seem to me to be raised at all on the case stated for your Lord- ships' opini'-'n. I otily want tc guard myself against admitting my friend's rigiit to go into tliO );i ittor. Ti!K Lc!;i' CiiAxcKi.r.oi; : -"We had l)Ottcr hoai' v/liat the ol)jcction is and w.> will bear ic \v: miniJ, Mr. Atri.rnoy. The Ani>!:Nr;v-Gi.NV.i:.\r. : — If your L'ird>lii]) ])lcascs, 1 did not wish to intcr- ff.v- fuitli'.-r tlia:'. merely to i^ii'te^t. ^fi:. nuNMAMi.v :--l d'> not know wliethcr I ought to sny so, but Judgc C;i.-ault who roprr-scntcd ( jiU'br-ti in the :>ta':ein(Mit of tli:; >iK;cial case, as I am in t'lriiiod, was present when the Coiii't put tluit in for t';;it jtoint. LoKii Ski,i:mi;m: :- -Ar.ii>ng the papers you \>n'\n\ the Logisl:itivi.' Council to tli'- 'lovernoi' ( icmjral and patch tliat is referred to a> (nntnuiing 1i ..' ground-^ on whic-ii tin; validity of tin' award is impcar-'icd. Perhaps you would potiifiud th;it the paragraph at page 5^'. of tluit addre>s, beginning at the lOtli line and ending at the 2.)rh, does cover the ground you wans to take, followeil up by ttie words, " Tliat the said pretended award is absolutely illegal, null and void, for the re;!soii> hereinbefore set forth," Mk. I'kn.iamin :•— Yes, my Lord, there he does exjiressly declare that "while Messrs. Gray ami ISfacpherson refused to take into consideration the relative tinmcial ^ ositions of the two Provinces at the time of the Fnion, they have taken into consideration the object and nature of certain items of e\|>enditure," and so forth, ''and that the preteiuled award is further unjust." and so forth, and thenv fore that it is thiII . (Tiiiiu LoiiDSMiis coNSL'i.ri'.i)) — 1 shall call your Lordships" attention to the pi'int, and leave it to your Lordships' decision whelhor uudiT. the circumstances tlio point is one worthy of attention. TuK ],oi;o (!n.\N<'Ki.i,oi: : The whole of this stalenient. :it pa'>;c 53, may turn inii to be satislif.ul by that v.diich is not huliicicut (m reiidci- \\\l' award invalid, U\V ^'||||lethi!lg goiui;- to the rcasDtiing on which the arbitr.itors prucccded. Mu. IjKn.iwii.n : In other words, wbnt 1 am contoniling, is that the award i- ii<\atid, not for want «.>f :\ny fnnuality, Iciving asidi.' alio;.^ei:her the (jue-tii'ii e ••cry purpose of raising ;wi'. the address ])rc?ented hy tlu"" lio\ ernor-Gcnerars des f •"''"' •«"/»n\*»*w»''*'™'" ■ i ftniu'w i y ii^^'?- ■ ^» iM .«-;'ir/wap7'^w,w»»JB»^^ .>^- %-■ A^ \i.' T-i i;i:riv, 47 'I ! • I ; mm Alietlier two could tnako tlio award in the absence of the third, and whether they mid jro on with the nibitration /.'.rjyarte after Quebec had withdrawn ; leaving all ■:-;il t': i\t aside and assnuiin" thov would have the rijiht to do it, that then what '. ■;[ ! ! 1 I !i Ifl t!icy have done on the face of the proceedings which arc before your Lordships i^ illegal and void, and of itself ought to canse the award to bo set aside, and th.it !i|iun well known principles applicable to awards. Whether or not my friend is tiken by surprise by this, would only bo a question whether he, with his infor- iiiiition and general knowledge of law, would want time to answer it. The ArioiJNEY-Gi:x\Ki:.VL: — I do not understand the point at present. Mk. Bkxjamin: — Now, my Lords, the point to wiiich I wish to call your Lordships' attention is this, at page K! the arbitratora coni-o to a decision as to tlieir authority upon which they proceeded to act, and it was in consequence of their decision upon the extent of their authority that Mr. Justice Day said "lean- not go on with yon ; we arc bound to exercise the authority which you abrogate ; you say you have no authority to exercise it and 1 cannot go on with you in this award if you refui^e the exercise of your right of judgment." TuE LoKi) Cii \NCKLr.ou : — You must show us something on the fate of the iiuard because they may have altered this afterwards. You must show us some- thing on the face of the award which would show they proceeded on a wrong principle. Lord SKLiiOKXF. : — And you will observe that the reason given by Mr. Hamilton Grny for delivering that interhn judgment was that is was not final iiid did not biuil thorn. lie ?;iys : " I have to observe that the decision of the 28th May last is no; final, it is nut like an award of the arbitrators on the decision li'id adjustment. It is only an opinion of the majority of them as to the best mode to proctieU in the decision. If in working it out, it is found to operate nn- i;iirly, it i? npeii to be reviewed and rescinded and such other mode adopted as mav be Rho'.vr. to load to a fairer result." Of course if you chose to go away iftir that, yuu cnnnot complain of anything that does not appear on the face of the award. Mk. Bic.\iA>riN' :— I pro|)Ose first to siiow that they deterniiiied deliberately it'tor argutni'iit what w;>s tho principle, and that there is nothing to show that :li('\- deviated frnui that principle afterwards ; but on the contrary, when we come I look at iho award, 1 shall call jo':r Lordships' attention, for instance, to 'Ik; particular point in the award which i shall be able to impeach from Acts of k' rarliainent of Canada, and further to show that they were in reality declining ■'.' exercise the authority given to them by the Act of Parliament to investigate 'lie subject inatter before them. They did not iiivestigatc it, but they took tor .'ranted that they had no authoiity to investigate. Now, your Lordships will iiid that tiic points on which they held that they had no authority to investigate lie at page IG, Nos. 2 and 6. The Loed Cn/\CELL0U. : — I do not think that you can refer to that docu- :n(;nt as part of the award . Mr. Bk.nm.vmin : — ]\Iy Lords, the award can bo impeached by exterm.. affi- >• luits in ordinary cases. These proceedings arc part of the special case, and ■'iife the judgment upon which the two arbitrators who have made the award K It'tennined they would proceed. P The Lord Ck.vncei.i.oic : — They may have changed their minds. Mr. I>i;.\.i.\MrN : — 1 do not say the contrary, but then when wo find that the '^vard after this decision * '•*• * ■•^' ■"' "" TirELoJtiJ CuA.NCKi.i.oR : — ^They state afterwards that the opinion delivered on 'ic 2Sth May was not iinal, tliat if It was Found to operate unfairly, it was open •' lie reviewed and resciniU.''!, and any dthor method ado[)ted. 1 cannot help think- '< that it is not k't they will go ba-k on tin; extent of their autliority. They bogaii hv detornniiinir, and the points at itjiuo between Mr. Day and ^fr. Maopherson, tlio arbitrators of the two Piovincos, weieas to the prineij)!us on wJiicli the ripjhts- of the Provinces .sliouki be determined. So far as that is concerned they said they would go back on it, and they hci'c laid down in a judgjnent signed by them all, under which judgmcnl the proceedings were afterwards io bo continued, the prin- ciples upon which they would '/o. Amongst those priuitipleS were two in relation to which they- were not deciding what they thought right or wrong, but there were two points upon which tlmy decided they were without authority. I am not, niv Lords, in the least degree coniiih.ining, that tln'y acted on the principles wiiether right or wrong contuii\ed in the other five out of the seven points, because it is quite obviou?. according to their own statement, that they might or might not ;ifterwa:'ds app'y tli'.-ui as they might iie j)i'odnctive of justice or injustice, but in relation to two cf the puitits the ilecision is not what thcii judgment on the mat- ter is. On twj of the points tlii.'ir judgment is that they are without authority to enquire, aiid, tlierei'ore, thoi-e two points are points upon which they could not. afterwards. ;-oi!io bai/k in aoeortlance with >\liat tln.'y hr.ve said as to its working in- justice. Tiicy s;ii'l. on these we have no autliurity, wec'iniiot go into them. Now tlio second i> ; " Tiuit the arbitnitors liave ni, power or authority to enter upon any onuuiry ifito t\'M relative sfatu of the delits and credits of the Proviiicos of Tipper and ]A>wer Canaila, r'-spectivelv, at tiie time of tiieir rnion in 18Ji into the I'ro vi.'U'e of C.ina i:i '" We wii! not enquire into that, it is out of the scoi)e of oiu- . aiit'iOritN. I':;'' v.li.it wo partieiilariy object to and whar shows from one item ii. t!io award wlr.-;!. 1 v.-;i! (•■all artotioii to tlie mi.-take tluw made, is the fJth. ''Tli.it the expcTidirur" u/i'lc liy the cii-ation of eaoli of the said assets, .*hall be taken as i.he val"c tlioii'.'i'. ;i:id v.-lie;e nori.-^iit has been left the amoniit paid shall bo takoa a-; tlie dcbl i:.«:n!c;." Why? .Nor, becau>.e we think that rig'.it, but, "tin- ;iili:iraft rs hav;;.^' no riglit to ent'jr into w adjndieite iqion the ]>oliey or advaii Xi:^-:- of ( x;)i.n litiire- or debts ini'urreil by authority of and i)isseii upon by PaWiii ni'.'Mt " lior.n S' [.!;'>i;m. : -That, 1 .■•u|ipo.-:e, mean>i they oaiiuot review the decision nf P;u'lia!nunr on t!;i' '[Ue-Mon i.i' puliey. Can they look at that i ]Mn. fiK.\MAMi\: -Ves. I submit so cleirly. 1 niider,-.tand that to mean thi'': Suiqiosin::: an expiMiditve has been iueurre 1 in l'p[>er f'anada to build a Courr Ih'iise, the Court Ilou.-o has been burned (l(»wn and nothing is left; wo arc bound. hv law to say that the money spent in building the Court Ilrnise is the "alue of the a.s.set, whicl: we now appropriate to one ^ide or the other. Siu MoNT.\oi:i; E. SMdii.: -I do not nnderstand Iheni to say that. B.Ml ; i;s i;.\ru(; K : — It would not be an a<>et then ]\[i:. ^)l;.^•.l.\^;lN : — I will show your Lordsinps under the awar! that they iia\e con verted a d('l)t'into an a-^et and oivcn it to us. J.oiM) Ski.uoknk; — They say we will valu ■ on certain principles which ni.iv ho riii'ht or wrong, but they do not say they have done it. 'J'hey say tliey have no riiflit to rcvievv' the politty whicii Parliament has determined to be for public advantage. Sii; .Mo:';i.\(.i r. 10. S.Mi'ni :-— All they mean to say is the expenditure at the time when inaile we in n.-t coiisidin' to be riiiht. Mu. Ili.N.iAMix : -If thev had said that. 1 should not object. Ibit th'/y In tin- t'\'|'i'nitilurc a r ill'' tm IS (lie v 1 1 lie Wll :vt nov; exists. 'J^ 111 11 tl iiai, iKi'i 1h:;mu-i we tl i.!u' cxpilnli liir, iii'.'a-'ure ol value, uu., nc'ir. •:':m>t^miifm/:rt'!^-*^ t 'w »JkX fi .\^ ^ ' " i '"'**"f'***«'!*8'!fW5'^''^"i^^ "' ..-.A : ;!.■*■. 4 « t <^ IK- III IP'. \vi' liavc I attempt li li:ul been iiuiiiy of f t!ic navigi havo no ri that iminc (iirtlier. fay that d certain e: |Uil)Iic offi and Imndi They say for the ]o^ irive Qneb ^ SiiJ i measure tl :iiay be no ■ M«. I tliat as the Siu A paid nhal! Mr. 1 \aliie the : 've have i 'lavc no rii iiaroiit fall SiK J\ .lebt. Mk. 1 whicii pari The I and can b improper I'ost ;)rice, Mb. I wish to n wlierc the extent of t The ] authority, assets, assii take the ci of assets tl would real stances of iMu. 1 The ] Mk. I not what t The 1 umndatiuM under the was rip_.htl; "'^^^-WSi if- 3.5 ';4^5?^B^?WPSP^5f5WS)l»5»:V'9*!l1^ '.'f,.;- »J 40 we have no right to coTisidcr wliother Parliament riulitly cxpoDi-led it. Tf an .ittcmpt liad heen made to improve a livor. and tlici result had I)een tliat tiic river had been injured instead of improved — and probahly voiir Lordships know of many of such cases wliero half a million has !)een spent on a river and at the end the navigation is worse than it was at the beginning— they hold here that they have no right to enter into that. The iirprovement of the river is an asset, and that im]>rovemcnt is wortli hfdf a million, and they have no right to enquire any turther. In reality, wliat has been done has been to injure the rivc-r. Or wo will .-;iy that during the Union of the two Provinces, Parliament might have ordered certain expenditure to be made with reference to a certain improvement, the [luhlic officers may har6 been guilty of malversation, money may have been lost, mid hundreds of thousands of pounds may have been s])ent and thrown away. Tlity say if that occurred in Quebec we will give (Quebec that winch was created for the loss and wasted money, and we will not determine the value of what we give Quebec, we have no authority. Siu MoNTAi.iK E. SsDin :— As I understand, they say the expenditure hhall measure the debt and we will stil.I find that as a debt against Quebec, though there :iiay be no asset to represent it. Mk. Benjamin- : — But they begin by saying if there is an asset they will take that as the value of the asset. Siu MuNTAi.rK E. Smith : — And where no asset has been left the amount paid >"hal! be taken as the deltt incurred. That is what they nu"M . Mr. Bi;n")amin : — It is the first part, that where there is an asset we will not value the ^u-set. That is the point we are et)mplaining of. We will lake it that we have no right to value the. asset, because the asset having cost so much, wc 'lavc no riglit to review the exj)ediency of the expenditure, and then tlii.H trans- vareiit fallacy is the result. SiK iloNTA-iUK E. Smith : — Surely that last reason does not ;i])ply only to the ■ icbt, Mk. I'knmamin" : — 1 will call attention to one item of the awai'd as an iten which particularly points to that. The Loki> Ciianckllor : — 1 think you also must show u,; this, that it is cle ;iiid can be demonstrated as a clear proposition, that if would in all cases be an improper thing to take the expenditure upon an asset as an unfair valuation, the cost jn'ice, because it may be as good for one Province as the other. Mr. Bex.iamin : — Then 1 must call attention to the authoiity to which I wish to refer, namely, the decision of Lord Cottcnliam in 4th Alylne & Craig, where the Court said it is quite sufficient if the arbitrators hiive mistaken the extent of their authority. There they declined to investigate a particular subject. The Loiu) Chanci:m-or : — You nmst show that they have mistaken their nuthority. Supposing they say, it is given to us to ascertain tlio value of certain assets, assuming such assets to be existing, and we do what many merchants do, take the cost price. There are a immbcr of assets that A has got and a number of assets that 13 has got ; it is very ditiicult as to many of them to tell what they would realize if sold now ; \\'e think it is a fair thing, considering all the circum- stances of the case, to take the cost price on either &ide. iMu. J)I;nmamin : — They are perfectly at liberty to do that. The LoKi) Chanukli.or : — Why may not the arbitrators do that ? ]\rK. Bkniamin : — They may. 1 will not impeach that fur an instant. That is iiot what they s.i> they do. They say they do not value because they have no right. The Loko Chanceli.ok :— No ; what they say is this, and tluire is very good loundation for it, I. think. Tlu'v say this cost price wa- incurred in avevy case under the authority of Parliament. Wo take that to I-e a veiy good test that it was rinjitly done and that it was jiroper expenditure. . I I. Il ml I '3' •>i '■ i '\ ir' ''*<^x. mm *>i'jr'iM''l '»'.^^!^^ ^^t^^ f U f^^ ^!> ' 9( i^;-f?''*SP'^- r- ',-l^>fr*?;»^u* I « ..: r. • 2: ;! Hi' f I.' ,.ygTg*gpgs^g^v1 | . p UB |p i 4^1| J t ^ ^ «r> Mk. Bknjamix ; — If they Ciuiie to the conclusion tliat tlioio was n right test af,':iin, I say Islioiild not have a word to say to impeach tlicir dct^ision ; hut what thcv say is just the contrary of that. "What they Bay is, we do not take it as a test. l)ocan3e we think it won'd operate fairly ; we do not exercise our judgment on it or take it as a test, but we have no right to enquire into the matter. LordSklhobsk : — Surely, if the proposition contained in the sentenco l)egin- niiig "The arbitrators having no right is a true proposition, If thai is a true pro- position, how can yon possibly take it as an error, vitiating wliat goes before ; and if that is iiot a true proposition, how can you say they have the right to go behind an Act of Parliament and enquire whether the Act of Parliament should be passed or not. Me. Ben.iamin : — No, my Lord ; but, with all submission, that is not what they are deciding at all. What they are decidinj; is thi.s. A sum o*' money was formerly spent under the Act of Parliament in creating an asset. We are told to value the assets; :ind div'ie them. We will not exercise our judgment on the value of the .issets, because we are bound to consider that the asset is worth the expenditure. Lord Sei.rmkne : — They do not .say that. Sir .Tame- W. Colvile ;— It is the debt, 1 think. LoKb Sei.i;okne : — They give us a reason leading to this particular conclusion that they consider themselves to have "no right to enter into or adjudicate upon the policy or advantages of expenditures or debts incincd by authority of and passed upon by Pariiament." Mk. Pe.n.iamin : — And, therefore, the expenditure under oach Act shall be tnken as the vah.e, not that wo think it is the value. Wo do Tint think that is the value ; we do not judge that is t!ie value : we say it shall be taken as the value, inasmuch as we could not enquire into the value without taking on ourselves to examine the policy (>f the Legislature in incurring the original cxpondituro, which \ve think we have no right to do. The Loku CirAxrEi.i.oR : — There is no reference which guides them in as- certaining the value. What the Act of Parliament says isthiit the decision and adjustment of the debts., credits, liabilities, properties and assets is rcferiod to tlicni. !Mk. Pes.' A"MtN: — Can the .issets be divided between the twu Province.- "."ithout asct^rtiiining tiieir value ? The Lord Cmancei-LOK : — It is {xal (,^)) to be entertained entirely sui generis and not to be judged bvthe same sort of rules as you would value a horse or a hous-e. Mr. Benmamin : — I think that the second section of this judgment is not ca- pable of a double construction at all. "Tiiat the Atbitrators have no power or authority to enter upon any enquiry into the reiative state of the debts and credits of the Provinces of L^pper and Lower Canada, respectively, at the time of their union in 1841." Sir RoBEiiT P. Collieu: — Does that amount to anything more than this, that they decide, po.ssibly wrongly, that evidence is not legally admissible of the state of their debts before 184rl. That would amount to no more than a rejection of evidence, if you jdease, by a wrong exercise of judgment ; but that is not a cuuse for setting aside an award. Mr. J^kv.iamin: — Perhaps I had better read the judgment of Lord Cotten- liaui, and sec on what principles awards are set aside in such cases, booausc, as I iiriilenrtaiid, that is distinctly a ground for setting aside an aM'ard according to that , decision. 'I'ho nai'iio of the case is /'oir-'s v. J'cmie, 4th Mylne & Craig, before Lord CottonlKiiii. There an award was attacked and asked to bo .set aside by the Court on the ground that of the enquiries which M'ere submitted to the arbitrators. ^. '■« .;■ : "•■■■,;/,■,.■ I I w if;; % , t> c : t 'v.' - 1.;' (*■ •)'^ there was nught not \veie niisti ond that-i must be se iiii^'lit to h ])ussiitfe fn The li referred them, the Sm R debts and :i!id they hr auiud ; bu 1841, as soti and siipposii ought to hai Lord S Imsiiiess we ;i!,'0. Mr. Be done by the Sir ^ifo: '■ !o treat it as Mh. Be: 'or that I call .':iakc your L( tion to it. — I '•iould not cn( l.jwer Canad, tLibject of tlir TifK LOK Mr. Bk.v iiid Lower Cr rifura to the s The Lor li>ihilities, pro Mk. Ben. l-ower Canada L'atiada. Lord Sel tlio time of tlii ivurds Upper ( 'Jt-'ed, writ, pro siine." AIu. Hen,; 'ion fo the j)ec 'j' tin; future 'I'm: Loi;i> ^^u IIknma ""t what the Hction 142, bu ;i"!i.!'t and 1a '"i'lla and "".oi 6\ there was one ou wliich they thought under the terms of the Riibmission they uught not to make an award — that they had no authority. T'r Jourt said they were mistaken in thinking they had no authority to examine into the question, ;>ik1 that-when tliey made tliat mistake tlie- whole award was null and void, and liiiist be sent back ; that ihe Court could not undertake to determine what they Diight to have done even if it made no difEerence in the award. I will read a passage from that part of the Jndgment which is at page 162. The Lord Chancello.<: — I think there is no controversy about that. If it is referred to arbitrators to decide four matters, and they only decide three of them, the award is bad. It is not final and not exhaustive. Sm Robert P, Colliee :— If they had to decide what was the state of the debts and credits of the Provinces in ISil — if that had been referred to thera and they had declined to decide it, that would be a ground for setting aside the auiU'd ; but it appears to nie they only look on the state of debts and credits in 1841, as some evidence as to the debts and credits at the time they were deciding, and supposing thev came to a wrong conclusion, to reject evidence v/hicri they ought to have admitted, that will not do. Lord SEi,iio;;NE : — Does it mean more than this, that it was not part of the business we have to discharge to take accounts between ihc Provinces 26 years ago. Mr. Ben'tamix : — Perhaps that is so, and that we say is what is ordered to be dune by the Act '.'f P;u'Hament. Sir ^roNiA.-iK, E. Smith: — That is what your arbitrator wanted them to do, to treat it as a universal partnership. Mr. IjEN.iAiii.v : — But un Jor rho very words of the 1-J2nd section— and it was for that I called attention to it at the comtncncement, though I could hot quite ii.ake your Lordr>!ups at the time understand exactly why I was calling your atten- tion to it. — I knew iliat the point would arise later. They have said that they would not enijuiii.' into the condition of the debts of the Provinccn of Upper and I jwer Canada generally, but the 142nd section of the Act, in deternnning the iiibject of the arbitration, directs most positively that they shall. The Lord CiiA.voKr.r.oR : — Directs v/hat? Mr. Benjamin-: -That they shall enquire into the respective debts of Upper and Lower Canada— not of the Province — but of Upper and Lower Canada which ufers to the separate Provinces ao they existed at the diite of the Union in 1841. Tue Lord Chan'cixlok : — "The division and adjustment of the debts, credits, liabilities, properties and assets ot Upper Canada and Lower Canada." Mr. Bkn.iamin .'--Of Upper and Lower Canada. They mean Upper and Lower Canada before 1840. In 1840 they were united into the Province of L'aiiada. Lord Seujoune:— It seems iiuite clear that they continued separate down to tho time oi this Act ; section 138 is: " From and after the Union the u.se of the Words Upper (-anada instead of Ontario, or Lower Canada insteid of Quobec, in any JueJ, writ, process, pleading, document, matter or thing, fihail not invalidate the i;iine." Mr. Benjamin : — 1 am quite aware of that provision, but 1 was calling atten- 'ioii to the j)ecnliarify of the hmguage. If yoii compai'c 112 and 142, il2 speaks ijI the future Ontario and (inebcc conjointly shall be liable. Tni; Loi;n Ciia\< i;i,i,ou : That was speaking as t(» tho future. Mi: lliv.iAMi.N ; Exactly. Now wo are going to the point, and the i)oint is "'it what the I'mvince of (/an.ula owes nor what Ontario and t^iiebec owe, m Hotinii 142, but the arbitrators sliidl adjust the debts, credits and asi-sets of Upper ' miidi and ]-^S^? .•■ ' 'I' VMM i >^M':'\ ^"' ''^ ' IM R?' ^ '' " '' ^i"^'^ ' '^''' ' '" r^TW yy.w K f,i, | tytM i JUi iiiwi 1^ 'a' J' c r I. .2: ■■> tz: i |i. 1 ■ t ^'. M b'2 Loud Si^i.r.nu.M; : — Siiiely not. Tlioy suv we liave no power to go back 26 yours under that diui.sc. It does not nnjaii tliose tliin W. (^l^vIr.K :~-It you u.«e the old names. Mr. i>E^..^.\^•l.\ : --If yoii u>e the old tiames it shall no: invalidate the deed. if before people :j:ct aceusti>iiied to the lU'W names the I'rovinees of Ontario and (^)iicbee tliey si!:il! happen to use the words I'pper and Lower Canada, that shall not invalid.ii-.' ti'i- deed ; luit the Legislature is here poinlitig out tlie true extcntof the diiTeri.nce !• 'tv.oen the two sets of wjnl? arid the moaning of the two sets of wiird.s ai.'l i:.-.i. i.iiving that \i-\y >ubjeet bcfure them, it s.iys in section li*2, ''that the ar!)ir:',ito;-- -'iJl adj';*: the !)(>, eredits, liidiilitics. ]tro])erties and assets of Upper ('anad;i a:i! Lower C uiada," and then riio ailiitialois say : *• Wo will not eni|iiire into ri; '.^'' TuK L'i;i' (.'u ANri:i.] i)K : -There seeni.^ to have lieen a sort of settled account. .t at what thi- coiui'ovt'isv wn-; it" vou Inul; tit pages 13 and 14. think \"U v^■ 'here see'i:-' !■ !'1\ e been a s(>it of si-ttleil aecounv in ISII, ;w to which the repre- .'^iintative of e and th;;t tl N')ith All i('Lr:!rdi;d as an assneiiitioii in tiie -nature the IVovi?iees of Otitario and t^uebeo respectively with the'debt duo by Upper (Canada and Lower Canada respectively at that time, and tliat the remainder of the surplus debt (excess of debt id' the late Province of Canada ovor and above st;2,r)i)(i,(t(l()) sifter suidi debts have lieeii ileducted fi'om it (and charged to the respective Province-) lie eipiaily divided iietwecu the said Province?.*' Then Mr. Macpherson in answm- to tho-^e propnsiiiou'^ siud that the Union of 1S4I be- t\V(v)!i U|i))er a>id Lower Ciinada was not analagoii.-. tn an ordinary lu-sociation or piirtneisiiip. ihit the rules of law applicalile tn an ordinary partnership were not iipl>lieable to a political Union, and then he adijed asaseeouil reason this, "because ill his opinion tiie arbilrator,-; have no authority to iiupiire into or considei' the inaiieial condition nl' I'pper Canada and l.owei' Canad i, respectively, anti.-rior to •linu in IS [ L v,-it!i ;• view of rectifyingat the expense ol lor < >iiebee — alh-irc'l ill or a Out I tl me ot tlietr Cou iiturio any snpi"!ed iid\':U't;:ge aileg(.'il hy the jii-tly ill his (.Mr. Maepiier^on's") (ipiniop to have ae.<'i'ni II nioti Ael id' IS-|(i. ipiT Cat 1 1 iHW 1»'' "^ ^*T*.'^ T.mnmm'^f' n' m^ c c 4' Cliiiiicoi' iiid to uncle liey were t ■n tlu! sliapi iiiiruasoiial) iMk 151.; 'liivc been _ "':illy to wh H'C'tioM 142 t iiid Lower C ince Iiiui its iMjtfadissoIut 'l;''ie witli th I unci wliifh '■"iiiinoii nia? i >y the piirp ■'■licM the (Ji.i l' l'j)per an., i'.ick to wlier I ii'Ii was to ] i .'fiuie.l, but ' I'i iiitoivi^t I] ■I'l wbetlior I rcj^j pou'oi' t< '^i.itllioy lia.J Ni>\v, iiiv ::'Vorh> till' |. Jjouf) Ski, .I'lfiibain].]; ' >i>le(I aro to ' "iii'tsnf tbe ] ■'^ I'nr tlmse i ^ e ['iiion. •Mi:. f!i:iv.) '•■■Ill: with tlie 'I'l IK Lour ^Ut. I J K.N.I "lis is all tbat ^"'isob'dation oi I'lccL tbe payni •' lotofore ehan "'■ to bo raised, \-i«^? of Cppei ■'III! as sliall ]ia\ •■"^I'tion r«0, " th •lid c.ni.-^oli(ljito( '"iii.'il interest < '"■ iif either cd' tl -p'lMid eliari^'e tl "•'• l'i»iirth'aM(I li '"^li: iMo.VTA. Mi;. |{,;x.,A. l.iiKo SKi.nc ■ '"I. ltd (Il'IiIs ot ^'!*'W^ dd if Clmncuiy a t-uttlcd iiwuiiri!, urrivod at in 1841 l»ot\vccti tlieso two Provinces, iiiil to undo what tiiuy had tUma tlieii. Tiioy say that was not one of the thinj]^ lioy were to enquiic into, thev were to take things in stfitii 'jiio and vahie assets !i tiio shapo in whicli they found thcni. Can we say on the merits that that was iiireasoiiahle '. iMu r.KN.i AMIS' : — J think your LordHhip tnisappreliondtf the facts altliough I :i;ive been irluil you liave stated them in that way in order tiiat 1 may call iittention I 'ally to what the controversy is. The real controversy, my LonI, was this: The -irtion U2 told them to adjust the dehts of l''pper and Lower Canada. - When Upper iiid Lower Cana(L^ were united in ISIO there was no account to adjust, each Pro- luce Iiad its own doht, and under these circumstances Pailiamcnt, possibly forcsiHJ- iiiii; a dissohition of the Union afterwards, (nade no provision as to wliat .should be ii'Me witli the capital of the debt of each Province, but inasmuch as the Consolidated I'lind which represented the rcvemios of the two Provinces was thrown into one r iiiimoM mass, it ]irovided that the charije on theConsolidatod Fund should exist i 'i' the purp(»>e of i)aying the interest on the debt of tlie two Colonies. Then V, lu'ii tlie Culciiios .separated in 1S*!7 again and Parliament provided that the debts if I'pper and L"wer Canada should be adjusted, Quebec .'^aid : "Well, now, we go i'lck to where we were before; you have got your debts and we have got ours, and 1 K'h was to provide for its own dotits. Wjien we were united the debts were not liiciided, but it was simply ]>rovided that the Con.'^olidated llevenue should paj' \'.\>.\ iiiterest o.i tlioin." The capital of them has never been consolidated or fused. iiid whether that bo so or not, what we complain of is this, tlnit the Act gave ex- j'iva? power to t'.if iifbitrarors to enquire into the subject and they would not grant 'iiattliev had sudi po\';er." Nt)W. iiiv l,(M-.is, ! must c.iil attcntio!) to tho terms of the Act of 1S40 which •iVCl' ns til •vision (if the debt of the two i-*rovinc,es. Loui> Sklhocm; ; — Ijefiire yon go to that elnuso it is worth mentioning that by iiiclilih and ITtli si'cti"iis. nofwlriistanding the Union, the same laws as pi'cviously ' \isled are to reuiaiii in force within the Provinces ; ami by the nth section tlie t 'lints of the Province- aie to I'eniaiu as before, subject to furtiicr legislation, so : .it for those purp>>-:e.- the distinction of the I'roviiic.'s continued notwithstanding I'lC (Inion. Mu. I!i:nm.".min :--And iluMi you come in clauses 55 and 5r to what is to l)e '."lu: -ath tlie debt.s. TuK, LoKD Cii.VNc'KLi.oii : — Tlus is the Act of IStO. Mu. I)r,.N.iA.Mix : — Ve.s, the Jlrd atul -tth Victoria, Cap. Mo, S(!c.tions 55 and 56. Iliis is all that is said in I'clation to the public debts of the Colonies, " tint the I'lisulidation of tiie duties and revenues of the said Province .shall not be taken to aJfccL the payment out of the said Consolid.'ited Revenue Fund of any sum or sums ii letofore charged upon the rates and duties already raised, levie.i and collected "1' to bo raised, levied and collected, to and for the use of either of the said Pro- ^inccs of Upper Canada or Lower Canada, or of the Province of Canada, for such time as shall have been appointed." That preserves existing charges. Now comes ^*'(!tion 50. " that the expenses of the collection, management and receipt of tlio •lid ciMi.solidated revenue fund shall form the first charge thereon, and that the i^iiUKil interest of the public ilebt of the Provinces of U|>per and Lower (Canada, '>!■ of either of thcni, at the time of the reunion of the said Piovinces shall form the -tvoiid charge tliereoi." Then the third charge is the payment to the clergy and "1 1-' fonrthand fifth pnynicnt to the CJivil List. Siii Mo.NTAiri r. L. ISmhii :- Dji's that consolidate tlu-, debt ? Mi;. 1!i:n.ia\ii.\ : - It is only to pay the interest, l.oijK Si:i.i:oi;\i :• -Therefore tlufy retniiiii till tliis new Act pa.=;ses tiie " iMiate debts of the Provinces. I I % mm f'.' ^ Jji^:!- ii^' t ■Y ' o IW" "" ^' »» j '; iia ' %S |i y, i 3ilJ_gj^ i ipi_gi i Wtlij%i 'ifj ^^ .f.,;f.: >• ,.• ■I» 4i •» ''*. i « to '1^1 « ; c : u . *' l4 • ■ } ',: 1 £^ jgtlt».Mfc.*y*>i* rf^ ;:w (IligifcViiilitiiii'iSf'illiMil >i i i lii "'•iVitiiririiri rim >i>h'iliiA hill mi' 1 «i>imi1i that you assume your own debt vhich we have never assumed and have never been called on to assume. Quebec was never called on to assume the debt of L'ppor Canada, otherwise than by the application of the joint revenues of the two ProviiiOh'S to the payment of the interest. Sip. James Vv'. Colvile :— Then, as I understand, there was a subsequent debt which h.ad been jointly incurred by the two Provinces after 1S41. Mr. ]>k\ja«ix : — A subsequent debt. Sir Jamks \V. Cor.vn.E: — That you pro))osed to divide. Mk. Ijkn.iamix: — We said divide etjually tlie debt incuricd by the Province, but we said li-r each I'rovince pay its uuii sejiarate debt under the clause of ad- juBtment. Now, I s could look at that decision if they had said we will not do tliat, but \nu ^hall )iay everything according to pop- rlution or pay according to thi^. that or the other scale. I sliuuld at once yield and say, that i.s the arbitratoi.-i" iiwn work. Imt vnur Lordship.-; are not iieiu to revise their judyrnent oi; the lueiifs. Tlie cnm)ilaint is that th(;y saiil they would not e.x'iaiine the .subject becanse it was out ut' tbt.'ir power, and thoy did not examine it. ,, ." LoKi) Si;!.ii:.i;NK : — Tlicy siiil thcv woidd not cake account of the sub-sequent debt, but would rake it up to the present tiiiic. Mk. IL'.n.iamin :~- That i.- what thev .<;iy. Imt (.'an it be denied that they said tliev did not becTinse they tbouglit it ought not to be done, but on the e.xpress ground that riiey had '.lo itower to do it '. LoKO Ski. iioi'.N'K : --They may have tlioiighr tl.at that wa.-> no part of the duty given them by the statute. Mr. Be.v.tamis :— Ves, that is exactly what we are contending. It was part of their duty to ascertain in atiy way they [deased, but they wci'e not without power to do that which we asked them to do, and which they declined to do because they said they had no power. Thk Loki) CiiAXt'ixi.oK : — 1 think it is not quite clear that they had any power. I think if they had stated, in place of estimating the value of this pro- perty now, we will go back and estimate "t in ISll, and had proceeded on that principle, that it would not have been open to them. Mk. Bkn.i.v.uin : — I am not speaking of the question of the value of the pro- perty. I am speaking, of outstanding debt. LoiiiJ Sn.iioiiNK : — The words are "llie. relative state of the debts and credits of the Provinces of Upper and Jjower C'anada respectively at the time of their union in ISll." What l)iisine.^s had they to ciiler into such enquiry ? Mk. f>i:.M.\MiN : — J»y the !12mJ section it i- said lhe_\ .sliculd adju.st the uybts of Lppf'r and Lower Canada. LoHO Ski.iioknk : — Those wcfc the ilclits in 1804. Mk. P)K.n.iami.\ :-■■ -The debt slill continiicd. LoUb SlI.UOK.NI. Tl leii llii>\ iiocd not III tot! |o ;).(.'('( •unt of ISll. If the wy | Jt. i> W |i | |i ii! i y | i iii i i | tijHfij^|i Mi| i iK v Mv^mUif ^i.'^'^-'^. '. t -. ^^ «"' h. .*, « :^^. 55 saire debt still continued tlicy would talco it not as a debt existing in 184-1, but as a debt existing when the new Act of Pailiamcnt pa.ssod in 1S67. Sir iJamks W. Coi.vir.K : -Mij^lit not tlicy, oi! tboirown principle,, have gone bai.V in sonic cases to tliat period, because if }'o\i look at page 16, in the third paragraph, tlicy say that the division and adjustment between the two Provinces of the debt for which the two are conjointly liable to Canada shall be based upon the origin of the several items of tlic debts incurred by the creation of the assets mentioned in the fourth schedule to that Act. They might find that as a matter that had been incurred in the creation of an asset before 1840. Mk. Hknmamin : — Tiiey might Hud that a particular asset had originated in an cxpendifiiio juior to 1S4I, and they say under this third section that in such a case as th ;t they would look to the origin of the debt for the purpose of ascer- taining \» Inch was lial)le for it. But tlioy also .say that they have no power, and if they had ncie, .of course, all my argument drop.s. fWi: B AKNKS I'k.vcock : -That is us to the sixtii. ]\!k Rkn.iamin ; — I am taking thesecotrJ, " that they had no power or authority to entOi" upon aii}' enquiry in.to the relative state of the debts and credits of the Province^ oi. Upper and Lower Canada respectively at t!ie time of their Union in 1841.'' 1 think that they were appointed for the very purpose. Siu James \V. Coi.vii.i: : — What you were conteiKliiig for was the winding up of the universal partnership. It was to bo considered that you formed a partnership in 1S4I, that tlie partnership was dissolved, that you were to take it on prin- ciples apti!i(;alile to a dissf>lMtion of j)artnership, that the whole debt was to be divided I.y the two, and each pay his own debt as it existed in 1841. Mr. DF.x.T.\Mr.\ : — Vsjs ; so far as that is concerned, I cannot complain if they decided aLiainit us, and I do not eomi>lain that they have decided against us. If they had o.orci^ed their j'.idgment upon the subject and said, we do not think that a proper basis, my w!io!e argument would liavc had no foundation to rest upon and I ^honld be beating the wind ; but what I am comi>laining of is this— not that tliey dccidcil the ;(iint again&t us, but that they would not examine it because they thouglii tliey had no power to exanune it. That is the complaint that 1 am now making. Tlicy wuuld not examine the poii.t and exercise their judg- ment on it. They came to the conclusion that they had no authority to examine it, and d'cliried a part of what we say was the sidtjcct submitted to them. We may lie misf.dcen in tliat, but 1 think the i42nd section was pointed to this very purpose. Inasmu..h when you were formerly .separated and we put you together again, and made no j)rovision when we put you together again in relation to what should b^'cotuo ot' your public debt, l)eyond providing for the interest oV it, while you were together, now we appoint arbitrators to adjust the debts of Upper Canada and Lower Canada, that is to say, their separate debts — not the debts of the Province of Canada, but the debts of Upper Canada and Lower Canada, — how Upper Caiiaoa and Lower Canada could have any debts except such as they had incurred prior to the Union i Sir I'aknks Pkacock :---Then this might be done in 1867, because they had been paying interest on their debts out of the consolidated fund. Mk. Bkn.ia itiN' :— There was nothing to adjust and enquire into but the simple aseertaiuuent. they were not asked to disturb the settled accounts, they were not asked to go into a settled account ; but they were asked to determine whether if Ui)por Canada owed r>,00(t,(iOO and Lower Canada 1,000,000 at the date of th(! Union, now tliat they are to be disunited, that C,>uei)ec ought not to Juivc to ]>ay half of the 6,0iMi 000.' TuK Loud CiiAxci:r,i.hi^ll bo borne by the s;ud Provinces of Ontario and Quebec respectively, in tlie following; proportions, that is to say : The said Province of Ontario shuii iissntno and pay such a proportion of tiie said amount as the sum of 9,80S,72s dollars and two cents be.irs to the sum of 18,587,520 dollars and 57 cents, and thu said Province of Quebec shall assume and pay such a proportion of the said amount as the suii: of SJ7S,ldi> dollars and 55 cents bears to the sum of 18,587,520 dollars and 57 cents. Mr. I5i;nmamix : — I am rcplyini^ on that to show that they carriud out their ]irinc'ple. TiiK LoKit Cm.vnc'km.oi: : — How do you say they arrived at that? Mk. Uicn.iamin : — I ilo not know how they arrived at that, but what 1 say is this, that they arrived at it by disregard in <; the relative debts of the two at the time of the rnion, which thoy were porfiictly at liberty to ao if they thought that tiie right way: but they bciiin by sayinu- we have no po>ver to look at that, and thorefore v,o take some other basis. Now if your Lordship looks at those very passagef? t<' wliich you referred me a short time aj^o you will lind that the objection tif the Ontario arbitrator to the basis of the proposed division was that Quebec would liiivc upon that basis only one-fourteenth of the debt to pay, and he says, I therefore oiijijct. This arl)itrution adjustment under section one shows that they ab- solutely curried out what they said there. Tliat they did not inquire into the re- lative delits i.'f tlie two Provinces at the time they came together for the purpose of proporti not a proper mole of proceedini;', but because they thouj^lit they had no power or authority to enquire into it. SiK Uaks;.- Peai otK : — I do not underst:ind tliis quite clearly as detiuiuLr what tlio dt ')- is, as adjii>tiiiir the debt at ail ; it oidy says the proportions oii which Ti;oy ,-ii;ill piy it, ieaviiii; it uncertain what they shall |)ay. Mr. I^knma.min :- -Tliat is true. SiK .1 AM!.s W. CoLvii.i: : — Tlicy give you the whole sum to be paid. Mi:. ni..s.'AMi\ : — I'liey suppose the whole sum to be jiaid to be §18,000,0(l(j and a halt'. If it turns our to Ije a dilfurent sum it is in that proportion that you arc to doti.'rniine the d"br. Sir: I!\i;m:s F'kacoi k : — Do they decide what the debt is ? ilij ]fi:.\.!AMix :— They assubic the debt at 18,5S7,52<) dollars, and they say whatever the debt turns out to be this shall be the proportion. Siii P>ai:n-i;s I'kacoi 1\ >- Were they not to adjust what each should pay ? ;Mi!. I'k.n.iamix : — T'.iey were to do that. Sik IJaknks Pkacocic : — But they liave not done it. Mk. !riN' : — Thoy have not done that. That is one of the things they have faili.'d to do. They have only determined that so:''ie time or other, when the debt is ascertained, without stating what the amount is and not adjusting the amount at which the debt is determined. That is one of the things they have failed to do in this award. They have not determined how much we are to ]i:iy of tho (.'.kccss over si.\ty-two millions, because they have not determined what the exce.-sS is. 8ii: 1*.ai:m:s Pkacock : — Sui)posiiig that they had said one should pay eiglii .-i:venteeritlis and the other iiiucscventoenths, without finding what tho debt was. would that iio an adjustment of the debt ? Do they find tho debt ? 1 do noi quite see that they lind tho debt. Sir .Iamis AV. Coi.vii.r, ;— What is the 18,587,520 oollars 'i Loiii) Si.i.i'.ouM-: ;— 'i'hat . s-cems to bo the aggregate of tho nine millions ami tin! eiglit iK-llioiis, and 1 .should infer, therefore, as a matti"' of inference, th.' Iiiii'.- millions odd represents tho debt of tlie Province an;' eight niillioiis oil; f»*r»!- =^W!?^jggTy!pp ^ . w wy - i»j m :: ' t-'f-- ■■'! - ■ ■■■ . - V"-... >'!?'«* v^ ' ■>"'-".,%5S;','.-V, ■•' ^^' •2: « icprcse is tliu s aliidi, I'ruviiK Mi Lu tjii; Uu \ssuriiii .ImIIii's, ■I'lil if t li.'Ii H 111 Vow, y|x>i;t.s til ■ f^'i'.'rica ^i.initoba i 'uni'iiiuj Sir J. ' larpjor an Mil. I iihI ]\[aiiiti Sib J; :\rR. 1 I'li'ilship B, "ily failed ■ ' Canada, ''^'iiada, wli ii'inire iiitc ■" "iir consi ISiR Ha ' 'lo nut mil 'vcf tlie r,2 iMi:. I! I •I,.- that fiir yiij iJA 'm 67 icprcrictit tlio (lel)t of the otliur Province, and this fiiini which is tlio e.xccsB, which is tliu r'uljjoi't of that, I ghoiil'l ifiifss to lio a(li:l)t iiiciirroii St:t.iioi:Nii : — AVliy is it jointly ciiariijed on hotii Provinces 'i Sir Jami:s \V. Coi.vilk : -I thiidc it means tlic wliolo amount. Mk. I'kn.iamin :— Tliis first section of the award, as 1 interpret it, moans this: \ssuininjf tiie entire (h.d>t snyi^csted Itetweeii tliese two Provinces to l)e 13,587,520 .i'lllirs, we say that Ontario is to pay idno ndllionsandQuelieceif^ht millions of that, I'ld if the delit is uf any other sum, tlien in those proportions ; yon arc to estab- ish A rule of |iropurtion if the tlebtshoidd not bo-what we assiniie it there to be. Vow, your l.ordsiiijts will liiid a curious fhiny; at pai^e 5S ; you will find that the I'arliament ot Canada, on the ".'ord of May, IST.'i, which is nearly three years ifter this Act. pa.->cd an Act lor l■lrovi^iiollal adjustment, because this is subject -till to amt'iulinent, "to readjust the amounts p;iyal)le to and charj^eable aijainst the -rveral Piovirici?-; of Canada I'V the Domiiuon (iover'nncnt," and then ihey say : ^Vherfcas t»y the provisions of J'/ic I>rit!' '.'2. •'!iOi.i,i'00 dollars, and the del)t of the said lute Province as now -certained oxi-ceded rhe said >iim by 10,r)0(J,0SS dollars and eighty-four cents for :!io interest .;- aforesaid. <'U whicli the said two Provinces were chargeable in ! eouiit with Canada," Thuii it L;oe< on to provide in section one : ''In the accounts in'tvecn tilt -cvoral Provinces of C/atiada and the Dominion, the amounts payable ro and c]iai.;va!,'le aj;ain»t 'hi- .-lid Provinces rc&pectively, in .so far as they depend •i the amount of debt with which each Province entered the Union, shall bo ^Iciiiated .uid alh^ved as if iiie sum fixed by the ll'Jth seolion of The British 'oi'fh A'/ih:/'i'''i -If/, ISi'm", W'.mc increased fr'om Ci\500,0()0 riolhus to the sum of ^•.•lOO.OOb d 'liars and >4- cents, and as if the timounts tixcd as aforesaid as ■ -peets the P;'ovinccs of Xovn S(;utia and \ew Jhainswick by jl'h-' JJrUisA Novt}i .''.ncnca Ad, 1>07, and ;is resi)ects the Provinces of Pritish Colmnbia and M.inituba liv the terms and conditions on which they wv.vi'. admitted into the I'ipniinio.i, were increased in the same ]M-o[)ortion." SiK Jamks W. Coi.vii.K :— That is, they, the Dondidon, take upon themselves 1 larger amount of debt 'i Mu. Bi:n.iamin :— Because in the meantime they had got British Columbia tiid j\[anit:o!ja. Sir Jami> W. Coiaii.k : — That is the. effect of what they did. Mr. JJKNMA.ur.N i-Ycs; 'hat is the effect of what they did. So that your I.Midship sees by the award and the terms of the award the commissioners not 'Illy failed to adjust the sum of the debt whicli these two Provinces were to pay ■•' Canada, but tl'iey said as regards the several debts of Upper Canada and Lower 'iiiiada, wdnch by section 142 they were to adjust, that they had no power to iMliure into it, that being the very thing for which tliey were appointed, according ■" niirconstrnction of the Act. Siij Bai.nis Pkac'ocic : — I have read thi.s through very often, but lam afraid i du Hot undcistaiid it yet. Do they iind that the IS millions odd is the excess 'V(.'r the ('>2 inillions and adialf ': ]\[u. Bivv.iAMiN :- -They do not say that, my Lord, but I judge from what they ■y/ that they gii'.v-;.. or onjecfmv tiiat that is tlie surplus. SiK Bai;nls Pi;.icotK :-Jt amounts to that, but do they decide that that_ ia ' .1 i I :^;'t,iii 0';**i. IK*''.!:' I m MM Mm 'mm .,-»i-; JSi^. ' V. ' ' ;* ;; 1 \^l >. V I- , [ /. » HI 4 ■ J -« * •*- .IP I"" *•« It ["^ the debt, becauso that ia quite different from wliat the Govcroment put in the subsequent Act ; they ]>ut it thci'c as 10 luillious. Mr. Bkx.iamin : — Tiiey say we do not settle what the debt is, but if it were so much, then it would be so and so divided. If it were not so much, or it is different, then divide it in the same proportion. Sir Baknks I'KAcorK : --Tiien is it anythinj^ more than saying in rouuil numbers, one shall pay eif;ht-scventoenths and one nine-sovcntcenths ? SiK ^loNTAOL'E E. Smitii ; — It is hardly round nunibers, because they come down to cents. Me, Benjamin : — 1 will just' call attention, as the day is waning, and as I do not propose to trouble your Lordships further with my argument, to the 4tli section of the award, at pag(.' 4S. My friend tells me tlie way they got that sum was this, that that was tlie sum total of the as.>ets, and they said as they divided the assets in rhat proportion, they divided the debts in that. pr(»|>ortion. LoRT> SKi.noRXE :- -Those assets representing in substance the objects for which the debt had been rotitracted. ^Ir. PiENiAMiN :— We >ay that is not so, because there are many other assut- of which there is a division, ami which are found included in the ttli schedule and which are dealt with in subsequent clauses ; but I call attention now to the 4t!: sectioT. of the award at pr.ire 48. Your Lordshij) will see just above section four, tho bSth number given to us is the Montreal Turnpike Trust as 188,000 dollars. That is given to Qr.obec as an asset. Now, my Lords, the 4th section explains wh.it that is, and witliout calling SMur Lordships' attention to the precise terms of the Acts, 1 will merely state to vou that by the 3rd and 4th Victoria, Cap. 31, section JO. and the 4th Victoria. Caji. 7. section It'*, certain tolls are created for tlie pnrpo-'> of establisiiiiig a turnpike at Montreal and authorizing the emission of debentures, of which the interest is lo be jirovided by those tolls. The (jovcrnnient of Quebi'c collecting tiiC tolls is by the Acts a trustee for the deberiture holdcs, for whr.; use those tulls are created, and in tho terms of the Act solely created. So tb.- Governmer.f !>f Quebec is a merely naked trustee of tolls for payment to tli': debenture IjoMer-, who are entitled to the tolls. AVell, my JiOrd.s, this trust fnuii is by this aA- ltd given to ii~ as part of the assets for which we are chatged l.SS,0(Mi an; givi'ii a trust fund hi k'nging to otlier pcoj'i >th . ..ars ; or in other word,-, we ^..- ^...„ .„ ^. ,._.., . of which we are bare trustees, and charged with the whole amount. That is clear mistake of principle on the face of the award itself. I'y the Act to wliicli I have called attention we are bound to make up the defii'iency to the debentn--' holders if (he tolls which we arc administering for their benelit do not sutli<-c. This 4th clause says that the tolls hitherto have sufficed to meet the |)ayments oi: the debentures, but there is uu surphu. and can be noiu', bcicause the Act provid' ■ thnt the tolls are solely for the purpose of meeting the ilebeiitures, and yet tho Province of (^biebec is made to pay IS^,oOO dollars charged to it, as if these arbi- trators could confer upon the Province prt>perty belonging to (■(•«/« /y wc t; lists. LoKO Skldoknh : — I do not know what you mean by saying "made to pay."' The assets are made the property of the Province of Qncbec. Then on the lai'o of the 4tb clause it is shown to be an asset. It may or mav not be a benetivi-il asset. Hut they charge lS.'^,0(tO dollars, a:^ if it were our own. - That is put as the value attrilintini to that asset Will your Tiord?liii) allow me for a mojiient — the soiv ii : ' i\lK. lJi;N,iAMrN :— LoKO Si;f,noi:Ni: : Mu. I»i;n.iamin :- and the third clauses cnii- .„ ,..,. are these, "that the as>i'ts hereinafler in this claust — merated shall bo and the satne arc hercb}' declared to he the property of an belonging tfi tho I'rovinc; of ( tutario," ;iiid then are v;diietl at various fiun'- Then the lliii'l <'l;'use. " th.il the as^t't,, lioreinaftcr in this cl.iuse emimerated i»lrii. le and tho eauie are iiereliy declared tu be. tho property of iUid to belon^^ to tiic ' '^•'W?y^^:^j^^■•^\^«^' ^ ' 4^ ^f ^1 ^» ,' ^^''='!^«^ ■ r '^ H '2: «: i loviriiie » i\ liich is tl LoKi) ! ■ f tiiat uwa Sir IJj .lollars ? Mr. B ■IS an asset, "ti» dollars, oil t. that the 'k-benture Lord n'oiits as it Mh. Bi •liO terms u; (.■!i!iivoly to j-^ret, and ye Lord Si !■ suid that t l.vtiu cluirgec :;' made, wou '">0 dollar?, :* t'l the Pros ir iljlentures. Mii. Bi-; J.oRd Sr '. liirge out <_» ; kill into ac .AIk, Hkv .•..ui tlieii tliev ; )SS,000 d.j L(jKi» Se :Mli;x!d, and t TiiK Loi: • liich tills cat P r L • I ■*■■■ "'f*f^|^« '•«VA . h'j riovince of (^uclK'e," iiiid :\iiii>ni^rt thoin i.^ this trust fund (^f 188,000 doUara ivliich is the 18tl. item. LoKi) Sklhokxk : — It appears on the yerj face of that award that tlie nature ■t that award was understood by tlie arbitrators. We are not to draw inferences. Mk. Bk.nmamin : — 1 have nothing to add to that statement, my Lord, SiK IiAKNKs Pkacock : — Do you say you are cliarged witli adebt of 188,000 .jollars ? Mr. Benjamin : — It is conferred on us as an asset. It is distributed to us IS an asset, a thiiitj: that docs not exist is distributed to tlicm as an asset of 188,- M)i» dollars, and it has been given to them as part of the division. "SVe point , lilt. that there is no such asset in existence, that it is a nominal sum belonging Iq 'Ifbenture liolders. Lord Selborm; : — And so treated on the face of tjie award, so far at all ivoiits as it may be assumed that it does not exceed it. ^Ik. Bes.!am!n : — It cannot exceeJ it because, as \ took pains to meutioii, by •Le terms of the .\cts which create the tolls, they are applicable solely and ex- ihijively to debt nture holders. It is impoKsil)le for us to get anything out of the jsset, and yet it is called an asset, valued to us at ISS.OdO dollars. LoKi) Selkoh-vk :-— Unless I greatly misunderstand it, it is j)lain enough. If, !■ said that the oli.u-ge of ^iSS.Oui), which is the amount of the debentures, lias not l.ten charged by liie Dominion in the debt of the late Province of Canada, which, i! made, would increase by lSS,00iJ dollars the excess of the debt above 62,500,- "ilO dollar;, iUid tlien they say tlie arbitrators have given the stiid trust as an asset I p the Provinoc of Quebec., and that Quebec is to indemnify Ontario against the Jjbentures. It 'ufivly mfiaiis that they are to take the beneticium. Mu. Bi'M.\y:.\ : But what beneticium f LoKO Sr!.iiO::NK : — Tlie pn)]ierfy that is to meet the charge and to meet the liuU'ge out ul it. That is the sub.^tiUice of it, and that this .sum has not been t kt'ii into acc^iuiit in another part of the di;bt because it is balanced in this way. Mh. Bi;nm\m:.n : — They have dis'ided the debt, first of the two Provinces, .•.:iti then tb'.'v •ii.i.ie tlie as-.'ts. Amongot the a.s.scts they give to us, at a value r! )SS,, is this trust fund. LoKO SEr.aoijNi; ;— And they go (-n to say that th;il is nullified and ueu- '.iuli;:ed, and tlii-.t that has to be Iionic I'y the jieison.s inteivstt'd. The Lout' Cii.'.N'.ki.i.oi: : — We must iiitcrriij>t you here. Tlie first day on" vhich this can lie resumed is this day furtnight. [auiouk.\eu.] 1 i*-^ tm ■nn f.t'-./ mm mm ..,.;!■•■ '[y-Mi ' V'-' A ' '-■ m 'M '/^''f- ^•.■■>S I. I^ m - 'I :K •u I .1 f r ;•( ■■^V *tiA (Id .UDICIAL COMMITTER OF TIIK PIUVV COUNCIL CoiMir. Cii.'.^rr!!;i;. WiiiTi'ii.vi.r., J* resent- Wudnosdav, I'Vi.n.ary 27th, 1878 Tun: Loi:i> Cii.\.\( ki.i.oi;, TlIF, DOKK or RrCilMONI) and (IctJll.ON, Loi.'i) Ski,I!oi:n'i;, - !Sri; ,I.\MKs W . ('o\.\ ii.k, Sii; Haunk'^ r'i-AiO( k, tjiii ]\IuN'i'A«;ri'; K. Smuh, Sii; Uoiii-i;t P. Coi,i,ii:u. IN Till- .MATTEU OF AN AlilHTlfATlON AND AWARD iiKiw i;i;n TlIK f'iioVFNCE OF ONTARIO \ M ' ' '( • \iN('i': oi' (tiKiiioo s"f:conu day Mi;. i)i.-.M.\Mi> : -My i. ■.:'!.-■, ;it the r]u~r of (lie >irtiii^ (in tlit: !;i'' ii'cti(in> tn tin.' vril'ility of tlic nwan! \<,-liic!i :.r;'iM!i, i) to nii; 'n Hi: i!|iriii tlio PurtVu'i' :iiii! tit l.i- I'piiircMl ii|Mii) its tafi.'. I now |ii'o|inM' d, call allintioii (o the terin.-^oi llu; ,i\vard as I'oiiipai'od with the authority i;i\i';i lo t!,*; a) hi I la tors fur the l-Hir |)OMi; of showiiii;' that tla- award oii it:^ lace is iinll and void. Voiir l,ordslii|w will icinendioi' thai the award is to lii' found :d the close i)f the cast', at )>ai;'i' 45. Kow, my Lords, it is lUM'cssary to I'tdrcsh your Lordships" rt( i.)licciioii with one or .\o .vjctii.ns of the .\ct. f think i( would lie well to read the five or six section^, from !(^7 to 1l.">. which provifu; foi the disposal of the .'i-sefs ami dehts of tlie two l*i(»\'iiu'c,- ; h>T hci^ins In i;i\i!i;;; to the Doinituon :dl tin: a.'sots of the I'rovin(!i^ exfcpf as othei wise pr.,\ Idcd in tlie .\o.i_, " all stock, cash, hanl;ers' iialance-; and siicurity foi' money lielonionc- to ca(;ii Fioviuce at. the time 111 I he Frdun, except as in this Act menlioned. .-hali lie th.e )ii'opi>rly (jf Canada and diall lie taken in reduction of the amount of the resp;eti\c dclitf of the I'roviuci-s ;it the ImiIoii."" Then i^ection JOS is ''the I'nlilic Works ;unl propiu'ty of each Fro- vinpi) (•iinmeralcd in tin; ihli'd schedule to tins Act shall he tin; properly o' ''intda.'' Amone'sl those, I will say it) i)a'-in;v, your !.ord.ddp> will lind the llarheii" el .\lontieal, which ;.■■, one of the sid)jcci.- of the award. That is in tiu! third sche- liiilc. Then •'all land-, ndnes ndneial' a:id fovallie. lu'loixnie' t<, the sevtr.d \'i'' vni it ( 'an, KM .No\ .1 lia a.nd New riinnsv\ick al tlie lime of 'he I'nion, a; a!l -iini- then i]\t e or |ia \ .ill le for sucih lamF. mill miiier,ds or rovaltic ii'.' Ii> llie si/\ eral FroNducej; iif (hit.iilo. < 'iicliec. Nu\',i Scolia and New Uriiii f>(Mif;'wir>«*>«»ip;<5^'(!«5^P»i«r...w*T''>niif'iiitiii^^ u V, .1 «' y> ^ ^ f c L., t *• I (: •- t : ■jw,'|'t V i> fur tJie I'lC'i' sixh ill tlie fn"i T.fK AFi;. I'linds wli riH'ru i.~ .1 t!u' t\\-,, I' Sl!i ,1 Mi:. 1 .\ow, 'li;it tlio fii I'll r, loses il H't wliat tl ly i.ir r|r. Iiasi.s '1 IKl f'l (li) .vith Mi:. •!! v.fiv, to ad TlIK I jMi;. I f.')|;i) ! II"! -MM tli;i ^f^•. I J'Mj>;irt;d to ■p .1 1" iw-rtjrrrasr"^ ■'■ »!l K3 vick in wliich tlio paivio arc situuto or ;i' 'fio, fiiilijeot 'o any trust existing in v.-pont tlicn>i)f and to any intoiost other than that of the Province in tlio suine." rhcn "all a-JSfts connectod with snch portions of the pnblio debt of each Province ;is uro assnined by that I'l'iivince shall belong to the Province. Then " Canada sliall be liable for the debts and lial)ilitiesof each Province oxisting at the Union." Then Sections 1 1'i and 1 IH which are e.-^peciidly worthy of rem irk in this connec- tion are "Ontario and (Jnebt'c conji)intly shall i)e liable to Canada for the ainoniit, if any. bj- which the debt of the Province (^.f Canada e\oecd.s, at the I^nion, sixty- two and a-half millions of dollar.^ and shall bo charged with interest at tlie rate I if five ))er ccTit. per annnm thereon;" and then, " The as.^ets enumerated in the fonrth schedule to the Act belonging at the Union to the Province of Canada .^hall be the property of Ontario and (jjuobec conjointly." The ll"2t!i and 113th ai>penr to me tu e>tabliBh upon their face that wliatever bo the debt of the Pro- vince and wlintever be the assets of the Province as speciiied in the fourth Sche- dide, the ii ibiliry and the property between Ontario and (Quebec are joint liabilities and j'.'int prwpuriv. Xmv let us see wluit the arbitratovs have done. Tin: Lor.o Cn.wcKr.i.oi; :• -'Ontario and (inebcc conjointly shall be liable to Ciinada" — that io. the Dominion of Canada. 3[ii. ]!k;v'a>:i.v : — Ve.<, fVii any excess over sixty-two millions. Tin: Loi;i> Cii.\xcKr.i.oK : — It is tlu; old Province. All:. P)K\.'-.o.nN' :— Yes : thf estimate was that the liew Dominion should iissiinu! the ('a'';i; uf the old Province of Canada ; but if it exceeded OtJ millions, then Ontarin ..t;.] Quebec hhiiuh! be jointly liable for the excess, if il turned out III be inciv, it •'.■.'(> that they .-h.iuM be jointly liable for the exce.s.s, and so with itgaid to the otiier Pruvinee the same rule was established. They were con- j.iiiitly Ihi!',' ;'.,;■ the as.'Sets, mid tlie assets in tlii! fourth sf.hedulo belonged to liirm i'cinj..;;.t':y.']'iie f-iurtl; sclic.liik- is hciidcd with those words, "assets to itethe [liopi'ity (if ( >!■•!. u'io and (Jnebec conjointly." I'lverything in that schedule then is fui' the jojii,' p)(.pyty of rji,-. two Piovince.^. if there should be an excess over sixty-twri miiiions they -hail jointly pay it, and as regards what is specified ill the fouitli s.-ludiile that i> tlii'ir joint jU'operty. Tin-. ],o!;i> < 'ii.\N( i:i,i..ii; : It says '■education." What ii:.v.i,\M ^v c: oi.vn.T -^Monev had been voted \ ow, my Lord IN : — A fund CI rated in trust for speeilici^ purposes. s, tlie lust iliiiii F wish to call your Loiddiips' attention to, is that tho first, se<;oud and thiid | aragraphs of the award pnd'ess to carry out the [)iii', loses designated in those tw- sections of the Act. ami yet, when we come to sii wh.'it they do actually provide, they neither tlivide the debts and assets erjiial- ly lor do tiiey divide the debts and a.'^.-et^ ujion any sjiecilied proportion or iiasi.^ 'i iM LoKD (,'ii \N(:i:i,i,or; : - AVhat do you say tlie award of the arbitrators liad (h» ,vith sections 112 and IK' '. They hiive a duly under section 112. Mi:. i')Kx.i.\min :--"\'es; thev had under section 112 to adjiist-what the debts Were, to adjust the assets and to divide ihiun. Tin: L Ml iKIi ( 'llANCKr I.OK Of I inner and liOW er Uaiiada : ) l>i:x i.\Mi.\ Ves ; that i.> Ontario and <.hiebec iimw. l,oi;i) Si:i,i;o|;ni; A^ ar a^ 'tioii ! 12 is coiH'eriied, I \v\ ->;i\ that tl Ml olijoiiil liidiilily would pivvi'iil adj u:>tl n ', il I ■n\U aippose you wo uld 7' sc. would you '. ni.X.I AMIN Jim p;ired to aigiie, and Woill thi'il. not be pii'pared to .iigin' lliit, but I shuiild b ami liroiHicty, that .sections 1J2 with LTieai tainii [??r'«'^^^r''^P'P!^ warn ^^I ^^^^^S i ^^fW ^ ^^ '"^' >ii.i'» ■ i ^ i.v % '4 I ! '■ I i- ^: >1 I. -4, 8fiir-^aiSSii^oaiii;fif.iiaS *:ti uiiil 1 1- ii?iiig tho suiuc hiiigiM^o Miii.-t be ivail tui^c'tluM'. My view of thoso two icitiniiH. 1 may state to your Loi'lsliips fiankly, is iliis. ^ly iiiiprossionis that. they wfciv jiussed for tho pnrpoKo of declaring the existence of an equality of liability ;ii,il |iruperty as regards tho points eonipriscil in those two sections ; but if not, if I am urun!>' in that, and if it. were within the power of the arbitrators, under ;ti'ti.in 148, to determine a different proportion for the debts and assets as a lp;l^is CirvNCKTLOit : — An cnactmeut tliat the assets in the schedule shall uloiii;- to the Provjiicos of Ontario and ii >nlil lirst call yonr Lordships' attention to !^ they api'oar nn the facn "f tin- award Itofore 1 alteiui)t, to apply princi- I.-: Mupf ]'■ laf:;- ■;t.^;! ••III. .1 u u). 'a:"rapi; rf I lio a wan 1 this i.s done with tin; debts. The first '.I'- [Ctijor'nt III t.i rhat was [.•■liorcd out on t\\v la.^t "1',m.-~Ihii. There is tiicie noadjustment if a prnjioilion accnrding to which the ]■ ill|i,>!lt .:-i!:,;>:y the Cental.! iiijiti-.t'i'rs sin tl,a' ;i!iy iuin that ii\i;;l.i bof^iiud niit tubo in exiujss of G2 millions Lcill lifnvU'ter bf ijis-ributed berwo;i; tiio pairies; it is not an adjusttnent of the ii'I'U. Wo!! now, my Lui'ds, tiie jproportion is thus stated : ''that the amount by ivhieh Tm; debt of die late Province of Canada evceeiled on the oUth day of June, pSi;7, 'iLM>"0,(>;in dnllars, shall be and i-i hereby divided between and apportioned to, [a:Ml iliall lie borne bv the said Pr ovinco s of ( Ontario and Quebec resi)eetively in the jfuliowiii!.;- proportions, that is to say, we therefore establish a propoition. The said jProvirice of Ontario shall assume and pay such a proportion of the said amount as |tlie.sina of s9.S08,72S.u2 bears to the sum of 8l8.5S7,52i>. 0( an dth e sau; IPr o VI nee of QuoImm' sliidl assume and pay such a prnportion of the said amounts as the sum of l,T lo bears ti» the sum of $lS.oS7,o'20.5T.'' If your Lordships will tak( llni t'loin mo, I have caleidated that and- disrei;ardina' minute fi'actions, the pro- tal)lished is that (Jntaiio is to pay o'i.j' per cent, of the debt and C,)uebec is iimi (' til pay 17 i per cent, of the debt. That i.s miicli more convenient than dealing with ■i-'-i' I'Tcat sums. l."i'i) Sia.iidijM;: --That is the same ratio as is referred to in a clause in the Act. Sn: ,1 AMIS \V. Coi.vif.i; :— Von say that am,>iint of tho debt has not boau i.'L-1'taiiif Ml tb .1, ;i;.\,i Li'ijo AMix :- .iNo adi\if,fnii'nt of the debt 1 las taken ])Iace. Cii.\Nri.i 1 OK :- -I(n',v i.; Ilial '. '^I'lio divisitiii and adjustment of rl ..Ml' ;:.'MM_' is tlu'ri'b\' cil I 'ft l'(! . i.iAMi.v :■ 'I'lie |iropuifiiin wliidi tJMiy arc lo p;.\ is at^tod when the -■rtaiiKid, but iho anioiinl if the I'.'-lu i- iH.'t -tah.'d mv where '^^T■■l^;^1^:afmst,%r>^,^^^•ffK7^SI'l|^^ ^:i r ~? £ '^'^ ^i^i ,^^.;;.^-«^T.^,^^^^. M. 63 The Lcro CHANOErxoK : — They were not ordered to asoertijn it. Lord Sklbornk : — They could not do it, surely. Mr. Ben.iasiin : — The creditor was to have a chiini upon Canada for the wholo of the debt of the Province, whatever that debt was. Lord Sklborxe ; — Canada was to have u claim jointly on Ontario and Que- bec, and therefore the amount could neither ho reduced nor increased by the arbitrators. Mr. Bf,x,jamix : — No ; but they coulu find out what the excess was and divide it. They have not ."Stated what the excess was. Sir MoNT.\i-,t'K E. Smitu : — Suppose ther.i was a dispute about the amount of the debt between the Dominion and the Province ? They had no power to settle that.' The Lori> Ch.xnceij.'h: : — Suppose they had stated what theanio\int of debt was, it would either have !)uen ri^Iit or wron^:. If it were rij^ht, it was not in the least neceesar\ to mentiun it, ;ind if it were wroiii,', it would have bound nobody, because they had no power under the Act of Parliament to state the debt at any- thing but what was the roal figure. Me. B.'-^n.iamix : — They were put there for the very purj)Oseof stating the real ricrure. "to adjust the debt between the two Provinces." Thr Lop.ri Chaxcki.i.or : — To adjust the debt is not to state what the debt is. Lord Sklborxi; : — Tiie debt is exiictly that which is stated here. Mr. Bk.v.iamix : — I tio not quite fuUow your Lordship. LoRo Sn.RuKXK:- The debt here is the same debt which was constituted by the Aft of i^irhaiueiit as the joint debt. Mk. Bkn.iamix : — Tlioy say whatever the excess is shall bo divided in a certain proportii.'n. The Lord Cha.ncei.lok : — What the debt was was to be settled between the Provinces and tlipir creditors, and nothing the arbitrators could say would alTect it. Mr. Br.N.iAMix :- -^fy Lords, I am at this muinont trying to get the facts. I say this first Ejection duet not settle what the amount of the debt is, it settles the proportion. I say they settled that pro|iortion at .o2.| and 47i i)cr cent. ; para- graphs 2 iviid 3 divide the assets, assets which are declared l)y the Act to belong conjointly t;> the two Provinces. In paragiaph 2 they set apart for the Province of Ontario assets w\iich aniuutit, if your Lftrdshij)6 will talce my additions, to $f5,'.>'.>0,- 192.6S. In tiie 3rd paragraph they set apart assets for Quebec which amount to $4,38'i,297. The total assets, therefore, your Lordships will sec, amount to $11,37-1.470. They have, therefore, divided the assets between the two Provinces in tlie proportion of Gl^ per cent, to Ontario and 3S.J per cent, to Quebec. 'ii.E Lord (^HAxtEi.i.oR . — Do you not there assume v/hat is rather a .strong assumption, tl.at the assets are all of the nominal value ? Air. Be.v.ia5[in :— They fix the value themselves The Lord Ciiaxceij.ou : — It is the nominal value. They nowhero say that is the value they put up!;. Tlie smii is settled lly the arhitrator-s Certain a>.sets are stated to he ap- |iiiii'ii:itcd on lioth sides, and to one side they a pi>ropriate assets which on their own tigiurs amount to sO.'tDO.uOO. 'I'liK.JiUp.n Cn.\.vci:i.i.oi! :- Jnst look r.t the 17th pa<:;e. '• Deht nnder Consoli- latetl ^[nllicip:d Lmiii Fund of l-o\vur Ontario, !?'_'.".t;5!».(iut>.'' i suppose that is the [nnniiiial anioiiiil ol the debt. Wiicrlicr in t\w market it is worth KK) per cent. r 5i' pi." cent., and whether .">" jut cfiil. wrndd lie reenveied does not appear. Mi:. 1 jKX.IAMIN Then they iiavc not adjii.-ted S'K Mo.NrAi-iK r,. Smith : How emild they know how mnch would be re- cuvcicu Mil j!kn.iamin: — If the assets are to he eoiijointly divided, and all that y on [know aliont it is tli.it a r-ertain part of them ha.sbceii j^iven to A and another part ][»]]. the arbit'Mtor- put down what they i;ive to A without sayinij; whether it is liioniiiial «>r real at .•ri\ or .seven Hiilliniis ami to l'« three oi foui' millions, oaii you on the face ■>*' tliat, that they havu iinl put ;ii;;iiii>t {.'ach item which tluiy >k th th la^tiiiiie trilnit'.', wliat li'itii fi'ic- or the rcil value f Tin-i'' is nothiiiL'' on tlie faei' of ihe award to show ;inv l»a.-;- beyond tin.- ?;iu!> which rl,e\ have alhxcd. (.niu> Si:i.rMJiN( ;— -What iieee.--iry w.i.; there that there r-hi'ohl bo? .Mi:. lb::>.iAMi.v : — Article ll'l saiil that tli('.--e a.>seth beloiij,' to the parties eon- joiiitlv. and their b-.i-'iiicv^ wa.- t(.> diviib; them e.]iially. 'I'm. l.nlili (.'li. r.i.r.ni; he ;u bitnitor; iiMia •1'hey l.ieloii_i;cd conjointly to be ai'terv.'ards divided 1 say. If rhey were to beionn' to then' e'|iially what was l!n> ii-e cF the arl itratdr.- M\i. I'l'.N.iAMiN :-- The arbitr.itor^ were to ad just Tla; si'ime lani^'naucc is u.scd I'lirayr.iph 1 estal lishes that (^iiebue i.Oo pay 47.V ]»er phs I, debt. paragraph ;! est;d)!ishe.-i that .•^he is only to have 'M ^yev cent, of !i |i;u':i::'rii [Ti!t. ul the tk' inoperty iSii; .NLo.NTAt.ti: V. Sjirrii : — Some of these assets may be worth 21) p(;r cent. Ill till' pound, some may ne worth 15 percent, and some may be worth 10 percent. AIk. J>kn.iamin :--One would su])pose that, the arbitraloi's would find on the L'u of the award somethint^ which would satisfy the people of ( 'anada that their s^L'tsliad not been tidcenaway aiidi;iven to Ontario, ami at the same time tluitthey rcieiint ehar^ed with more than their share of the debts, imue especially when i>ii tiiiil that the award was drawn up by Ontario and tlie JJominion tojj;ether, t'liuljec absent; and on the face of this award, ho far as anybody can jnd^'c from k'facc of the awaid, (}uebe(! lias been charii'ed with -fT]- per eent. of tlie del)t and Bj:iv.'ii only oS per cent, of the assets. 1/iKii Ski.iiouni; :■ lUit supposiujr nobody can adjust, it on the face of the ward, is thoro any necessity that it should be found on the face of the award ? Mk. l{i:.N.iA:N!ix : — I submit .-^o far as the face of the award is concerned you n>lt;iki' the fif;uixs the arbitrators jj;ave you, you cannot coiijeetiire that those tiii'i :iie ot the value of the ;m; : - ^'oii as'k us to' con jeetiiie that they are and in the nature if 'ihi'iL;- they seem to si:j,iiifv the amounts of the debts. Ml • i;N.IAMi I >m; .f the ;i;-.et- Tlii;. is our aii^iment which i it t'j voiir Lord.;hi|).^. Mither si .j.ii(iUs I I'J and I b'ihave the -aim.- siifuilicatioii '"^ 'V^!^ji"Wijtj [j l.>^ *'?'g!:p^5^^ «(^.xl.«« ifi i r: tv t J. jS, 5^.' « t* t -wis •• -:» (irtlK'V liav coiijdiiit li; of |i;irtners fixed prnpo Art Irk' 113 the jn'oport LoKi) IS assetfi and d had divided to Ontario; and tlic win Ml!. Jl the V have di accord inj;' tt what tlioy" ai SlK "Ba Thov .<;i V wo take so and ; Sii! yin> They say if ■if tlio Colon Mi;. 1!]:.N od i»y that jwi -t'hiduie. S:ii MoN .iu,-i();i it>cdt iiMii. TiiPV ; is!;dili>iic'd a '"I priipDrtion •I'lv- to Clf:!;. !''!it. in Art >Sik ,! !\.M1' ■'jiora;i\i! port MU. IlK.N, ■!■ thri't^ pai'aj.; '|';isl exaininat 'i"t til ol)tain "id I wi.sli vs| V'lii' l.ordsliip i'''»,Ui' l>, anim "diich is itii -iveu it a-; an '•-iiihI upon rlu ''iiiad:i, ai, 1 t!i lid ihc pavini 'airt.lii, II,, I' li;i 'I.'' dclit, of Ml ' } "iNlsS/WMt jIm ■Mil.UlIM, ••J{|i, '"'■"WW^VWW J I \ Miii\Mkmtmmimi\imiitimiT-^^ "* 1': ; H.*) (ii'thcy liiivc! (lilVorciit siijtiitiouriuii.-^, if the two Iimvc tlio saiiu; sii!;[iifieation. then col) joint liability .I'lil oiijoiiit assets we say mean in ihennlinary lani^iiapjo, huth iif liMitiierships aii.l of the law. e<|iiality; but if tliey do not, tlion they mean a tixoil proportion, and you eaiinot under Articli^ 1 12 take one proportion and iiiidor Article 113 a diil'erent proportion and make a dilleient pmpoition of assets froin tlie pr<»|>ortion of debts. Loud SKr,i)ui;Ni: : — I could understand your argument if they liad taken tlie iissots and divided tlie same asset between the two parties, for instance, if tiiey had divided 'lie lirst asset S3t(,800 giving £o much of it to Quebec and so much Ontario; but vou see they liave given the wlmle of a set of assets to tlie one, to anil 1 the whole of anotlier set of assets to another. Mi;. B is that tliev have put ti<; ite what Li;. JiKNV.\>n;N : — All we Know is tnar, riiey nave put ngures opposite wlia they liavc divided ind they make oik; party take 3 oths, and the other party i?,5th.s. according to their figures, and there is no other guide than thijir ligiires as tg what they are g;-. ;;ig. Sii: l>,\i;.vi:s PtAiOCK: — Tliey are not bound to give tlicir reasons, are they ? Tliovfiiy we divide diem in tlii- manner — you shall take so and so, and the otiicr shalj take so and su. they are not bound to give their reasons. Mi:. Bkn.i SJMN ; -I do nor, siy they are bound to give their rea.soiis. Slit MoNiA'-n: Pv. Smith : -They go very much on the oiigin of the asset, Tlify cay if tlie as'^ut cost a givat deal more than it is worlh that is the misfortune ■ if the Colony wl.(>re the asset lies. Mu. li]:.\.' AMi.\ : — Tliis ;iward coveis a large amount id' items which are govern- ni hv iliat jn'i lie: I'll.-, lui: it oaiiir.'f gox-ern thc.-i- liecaiise tlie-t- are |)i'o\ ided for by the i.'bi .in'e. S;i: MoNTA. .;"!.. E. S.niiti' :- -T-.c pi'iiiciplc of divi.-iuii i- for llieui as well asllie .ivi,--in:i itself, i- it v.i't.'. Mi;. !*! N iA:>;!N : -rnder -ecii'.h- il-Jand llothes ;m.> to i>tal)Iish a ))ropor- ii.iii. T!ie\ a'e It..'!'.- i.?.rabli-':'!ii-- a propoi'tion iindii' Ai'ti<'le' I 1 "J. Thev .siv we iiilisneil a I'lMii ■rti'^n, and l:ien wlicn \'oii c.'iii e to Article: 'J;i:i.l;; tiiey establish |n'i>portion, but ihey give at ;i.i-Ir (lis"i'i'!io!i what they like ol' ihe conjoint as- •I'l.- to e:lC! n,\rric!e 1 tliey s.iy we estahlisli tjiis propor.io-! ;i> the lia bility f ov In y\i'i ;.■;'- :.' auil •> s/c r. .Sue ?r:i!i\e |)orti'.!i oi >i.\ ii.r -M ^■(C /amtf. w not anv incinuditv IK' col rhe Titli and (Itii Article* npcnsiiled by the Mi;. r.K.N.i AMi.v : - I am going tocall your Loiilship-" attention to the only two tiuve paragrapli.- of this, award which, according to our contention, will bear the .I'lisl examination, i com e to paragiaph 1, upon which I was nnlortunate cnouirh iiiit to ubt;iin the eoncurrence of l.ord Selborne at the close of the la.st sitting, uiil 1 wish especially to call your l,ord>liips' attention to if now, because F think Lordships will .see that J wa- right in what I stated in relation (o tliat. At Willi I'iiU'c IS, among the as.sets given to <,>uebec is N. 15. M( ntieal 'I'lirnpike Trust Vliicli is given to (Quelle'; at SlSS,i)(iii. 1 say that on the face id' the law creating Hiat trust it is a debt, and it is so deehired in the Ith par.iiriaph, which is it lurther 'atcaieiit. Here is paragraiih 4, " And as teiiied hv debetitiii res ->iiial upon rlh ii of the Paid tiiisl, and uiiaiiinteed !i\ ll II- I iii^ loviiice o ''.iiiadi, ail 1 the >:\\A i\[\>\ li:i> hitherto met the ]>ayiiieiil:- noon -iich d(;benluic..-, i'(dore Hot b.-eii a<.-iimed li\ the l)oininion of ml I le iiavmeii lieieoi na^: iih 'aiiada. nor ha^ the .'slid snin of s| n'^iKH* liceii cliar;';eil hv ihe^-aid I Vnniniou in .!• .'U lit of 'he late Provi'ic of ( ':tn:ii!a, which chir; •i' II IP V*oU|i| lliereMSe \ SI sS noil i'm' eve.'-.: of lhe.-;iii| d- lit oil the Hnth i| i\ ol .lii! Oilll Kiiii\\ the re I ore ibe ,-:iid ai'lnl ratoi , |i,i\ iii;.i; as- it;iiei| ilie -alt! tril>t as an le, I Mi(, aiio\ 1 e so: p*^'**'*1»1fPSJin^0ii»f';;^^ --.«» «j »» ,i fff ,wiT» ''ty''r ;^iytjMfli» ,ryy«»ti w,^HW, ' ;i > M mm Ell '.i'; !N,jl ii m Jiv'.'r''.'.Hl mm mm {■■■>■ -i:,l.-, I ii I i 1-. > 1 1 ;!«■ i ir«i •a^ mm ri>■^Jl:^*^ *-;-,';-^' ■¥*' ,ffl|W(^"- i V ;'■ v; i ■■« i. I tm Ri!:iot of tilt: -iiifl rruvinco of <^>iiL'l)e(j.
  • Iiorclu' udjiiil^L' mid iiward that tlio siiid I'roviiict; i;f (Jachec sliull lu'iuinal'tor ii)ilciuriity, pruto(;t and ku o liarnile^s llio s:(>d Doiniiiiun and tlic said Province of Ontarii) auaiiis^ any - '■argo upon or pay- iiu'iit by tliy tlie Hrd Yiotoiia, (Jap. ,31, section 10, and tiie 4th Victoria, Cap. 7, section 10, wliidi are Canadian Acts. Lookini; to the said Acts, 1 need not read tlieiu to your I.ord.sliips at lenj^tli. Von find this, that for tiie purpose of ostab- lishinj^ a certain tiirnpilvo, del)entures were issued by the I'luvince, and those dehenturus amoinited under the lirst Act to ,£;-)5,0(»U, and in the sccontl Act to £12,000, making' tf):^etlier £17,000. Dy the ('oh»niaI Act a pound is four doUars, and thus £l7,0, whieli debentures are held by the public. The LoiiU Chanx'Ei.f.ou : — The Province issued it mereiv as the hand fi)r issuino. The p ninarv debt ors are the t rust. Mr, Kij.s.tami.n : — Yes ; I had not tinisliod my senteucu. 'Ihe Province Lssued ^188,000 uf dcbetitures and established tolls upon that tui'upike with a provision that those t^dls were to form a trust excdusivcdy for the I'edemption of the K.\.i \Mi.\ :--"\Vell, if your LoriI;diip pleasijs, either way. At all events. :tl, icrc was c due to rhe nublic from tlii.- Trust :i;l8'<,(lOi). .OKI) bhl.l; iKNF lie asset and the eiiarye weie exactiv tlie >:une m amount. ami they are r..MTi_-.| sn here. Ml say. LoKO Si r.ii'iCNi: : — The two jireci^ely iialaiice each other. Mk. I)K.\.:\m!n : — That is e.\aetl\ what T am ci»ntcndin^-. TiiK J.oiiii .( i:i.[.oK ; — How do yon inier that they were held by tl le llUillC Mr. i!^^'^^ri.^• : — Tiie Act providt'S lor issuini;- t!ie.-" dehcntures and raising; iMoliey on I hem. TuK Loiai T'liANi i;i,r,oii : — They uniy have lieen held by the (Joverinnent. Ml!. l'>i.\.i \.Mi.\ : — It possibly inijfht be so. but the fact is not so, and when they are held iiy the Government, in another instance of the (.^uebeo Turnpike Trust, it is s'» -tuted in the case. This is the ease of a debt of the Province or a "lilit of thetri)>t. The I'rovince is a mere trit.'tee to collect tolls t<) pay the iluhenture li(pld<;rs. LoKu Si;i.(!ouvK : — The amount of the tolls cannot exceed the amount of the (lelit. Mu. 1*1 v.iAMiN : — Quite 60. boKO 8i.i.i;ou.N"K : -If it is an asset of preci.sciy the same value as the liability ivhicl |l>»tl I accoMi iiatdes it, all that resrdt s is that it adds iiothiii"' to and deduct.- till;.; from the value. Ml l)l.NMAMI.\ That is pi'(>eisely my ai^nment. SiuJavmi W. (Joi.vii.k :• it is an asset worth iiothii l.oKoSri.iioi'.vr. : -What follows from that '. Ml 1 OS,! ', vllN -It follows iVoiii th il Ihal the Si ><.S,tlilO which are iioini n- ,iven to i':^ i.-, nothing;, bill it is wor.-e Ihaiithal. If youi liordsliips will |*''*-*''yT'^^ iW !ii^ *y"" '',>i.-*''* ^ ' w > f iy i i»«T»i>^' »*jTWHi i wi 'f*''r i » "? ifiti > rifta»'^»i » »< ij^y^" i» y»M niitko from \vl ^'ibst'ijiK '!■ way H Ji-ssets (111 IjOK ^iiid friis •iwani th ■'■'vo Iian •'linr^ry „. 'I'l » ' '/lO />otii ;lol)t'ntinv '''■'(' iirliifi '""'> iuay I :"i'l H..(..|', f) 'S> ■^''f^Tiwrwi ZSZl^'^'Pf^'m^K-Sm/'K i?n'^^m^mf'r'.^K:v^;»^,v^ cr *>i. .-.iM Ilk. I".' Ill:)'- ir is cvi I I'l It I' l^'l \l r 1 'jo wrorKr r I. "^-'"V' ' tliiiK f aii) .f.ri.f • ' ,"*^'f-"'J, so that a rluht i= • ■ ^'« -'a-Mks W. Oou'iLK • Tl '■'" ^^'"^^^o^flsh.p called ■'" ^'-nn^ it .3 an ..s;, / '^ ' ^"'' '"^""'-t tl.at the legislature n,. , • Mfj. liK.vrAMKv :-^'„ T ,. , , .-,'siature n.ado a mistake ''•'id not ;inv ri.rl,, f/ / .' ^ ^"""<-'f' way tliat (, f^'un, which ^voZul T '" •?''''"'^^'''' ^^'•^'■•"' • f . T)''''T '^«^ '''^^ no r S i --f« ".Hlor which tlK:t:y:i^;,:^- ^y -'i-de the alt^ a' ;t ': ^1 -0, «ense ' ■"■^' l^l-ff-aM asset of r'i.^;^.^^^'^ ''•'^ ^ai.hu4 '"■'•»nl that tl :iid I J fore, tl '« '^ai.l arhif,,,to,, ], lereb ng asai^rncd thf oiuiiDoii and th ,; ; ^^ "/';"! •>'• IMvn.ent lytZu "ii'iiun in- the A '-■"'00 issues dfi lohentiiiv et >L'(l(l|| owe ••^ overv ill id 1 li ■ '""<^"liiity, nrn n/.r or.,i djndg '•oviiiee of Ont prolecc and T: iilorie. •■^^'Wire.l niH.n'a t ■' l"''inv that i '....' '/''« ^•■"^J der,ent„re..- I"'"".V that tile F ■(' arl.itr,,fMi> The Do 111,- IS Jili "d tl-en t) 'J iieiviiftrr j.i i,r";r..^',"-^"i'si ; ..... uie i-ioviriee owes T V f>Tl'lK:al,letothnn.!.:;..,/i'"./ ^;';;^"<^(l,et^„.t/und r 10 n "^'t; nisiitlieient ; if I'oiM whiel '.V ^iiv if hercaftoi the () Ml e to ' M'l' never payment of tl V'-^y these dehent Co- lo.^ u nros. <■')' U(l. til o/iiinion P-lV'-iyon shn <-'" the Doi [■•'"Setaporny. Tl ""lion nuk^t 10 pay the J) "ninion. paj, M ! \i y .'li ifcv I'' 1:)'^ wt} 'I'RSWfDiiin. .,^jjKm-i ■im d-f! 'if :-^f^ ^ K ^l 2 *;5' f-Wi ^ 1 .1 itfii^tii^^iyyaia^;?.r/a ^'i^sifmff^s^f^B'ri'm^ 08 Siu MuNiALiK K. S..iirii :— Siin-ly thuy aro r\ i.s inciely, tliat uIiltc tlic assdt i^ tliore the liability inu.st be. AfiJ. l5i;.\.i.\.Mi.N : — Tlie lialiiiify i.s tu i'.\ist bi'Voiid the ni^set. Sir Rour.iM I'. Cui.i.iki; :--Thoy j^ive it a tmininal vahio. SiK 1!.\i:m> i*i:.\t-ncK : — I do not iindeistand it in the sJamc way tliat you do. 1 iindeistatid tliar the (royernineiit of Cuiada were the holdei's of these deben- tures. The Turnpike Tni?t issned them and chari;-ed their tulls with the pay- inent (»f tho.-se debentures. The CJovernnient of Canada guaranteed them, and tiiey ini^ht liav>; i>.s!n>d them, but they did iiut issue the:n. .Vs f understand it, they bold the.-e debentures. j\ri;. r>t:.\.i.\Mi.\ :- If ir were .*o I woidd nut have a word to .*ay. Tmk L'>:ih (,'n.\.\ri;i.i.iii; : — All that ilr. lienjaMiin endcavor.s to show is tiiat it v,as nut of sny vubie. Mk. l!l.^.:.^^;l.^■ : - It is a minus (juaulity instead nf a pin* (puuitity. If yonr Lordsbi]) Im,!;-; at the .Xet you will find that I am right. J/or.h .>!• r.: '';;.\i: : -- Yiair aM;unH'nt is that for anything tiiat appears on the face of tilt.' -Vv.Mrd it \v;i< pos-i!)ie that tiie security might have lieen sufKeieiit i Mi;. I!i .N.!.\Mi.\ : — Yes. J.oi;i» S, !.i; ri:NK :- -Vv'l'v a)e we to assume that ? Mi:. I'l.N.: .-.'>: I.N :- -l{'jciiii>e ilie ai'liiliaturs assume it. Iaii;i) i:;;-.!.:; ";\i; :--()ii t!:i; CMii'iary, I see not t!ie slightest fonndafioti for tli;it iirgiiu;;!,; . Mk. l'>; n.',\mi.\ ;--\Ve!!, my L'rd. 1 have uotbiug further to ad>l to wliat ! have sa'd iii-i;: ir. -- I do liot ij',iit(! understand hov.-, if tlie.se debenture; and were i.--ued, they eould lie an asset belonging to ;!i; ijA;:.\!.> I ;..\''iiK were held li} 'iir'l per.M.'ii- die Govern!:'e''r. ^[i:. i'.i.v.- 'Mi.\ :~Tii;'.t is e\:ietly what (Quebec says. I.oi.o S;.'.!,mm: : Mr Heniamiii tliinhs he can tind hero evidence that the -,il>it'MiiU',- ':■)!. -i;ered if wa,.- wmiiIi !e-s than s|S>^,(liii'. ]\[u. I'i..\'.;a.mi.\ :-- Ves, they are certainly worth niuhiiiir, and we say urea niinu-. is(Mi to us, or it s!i;;!i reinaiii in the Province (jl <>iicb( '• a. roi ;e-s<-l '1,1' hum -He liiMJ and eighly-eiglit ilionsaiid doili'.rs is put o])pr) W.'iether tli it ineaii- nominal or real value I eaniiot tell, and your Lord cl hi rd di crJ red r.'piK <>-, i»,(,-«i ' ':V' A,.-.. -.V « iv 'ii > ;«. -5 ir = -:■> k'l »•*' \mimm^Wi^ Oi) -hips will gay tlic Award doos not specify it ; and the result of it is, that so far as we arc conceined, tliat which is a bare trust under any possible circumstances ia put down as an asset. It cannot bo an as^set ; it is a I)are trust and it does not itelonnj to the Government at all, it does not belonp; tf> the Province in any sense in wiiich it can be appropfiated to us as an asset, and then it is nncnmbert'd witli I future cojitingent chariio, that if the tolls are insutlieient to pay it. the iKmiinion ivill have to pay it, a»id then that Quebec is to pay it to the dijchartje of Ontario. The Loki> CiiAxcEr.i.ou : — If that was ultra virrs when it came into force you would be able to resist it. Mk. Bkn.tamin : — Then sections 5 arid t' of the award refer to assets which ire not mentioned in the Act and in relation to which wc have nothing; to eay. Those are separate assets of the Provinces which th(> arbitrator.^, have divided in dieir discretion, which the Act did not say bcloiii^ed to them conjointly, and in lelation to which the Act havini: said nothing, they have divided them in tlitir liscrotion. "We make no objectioiis to ])aragraphs 5 aint 0. Then, my Lords, we come to paragraph 7. Sir J.\>p:s W. Coi.vii.h :-— I thirdc one is mentioned. The first itetn in the fourth schodu'e to the Act is "Upper Canada ISuilding J''i.m(l,"' and th,'i.l is the -t-'cond item in the 5th paragiaph. Mr. Bks.jamix : — %\\ Lord, the Up])or Canada Puilding P'und ii in para- graph 2. ' " The Lokd CiiANt km oi; :— And in paragraph tiic first item ii, "Jx»wfr ' anada Superior Education Fund." The last, item in the fourth scliedule i.-, J.ower Caiiiida Superior Ivlucation Incoi <■■ Fund," I do not l!1k : — No, my Lord, really what is in the fourth schedule, your Lordships will iind has. all iiocn divided in ]iaragraphs "i and .'>, except the Quebec rurnpike Truft, whicli i^ wh;if I am now coming to. Vonr Lordships will p-f-ii ■ ear the foot .»f the fourth .-chedulc tluire is a (Quebec Turnpike Tiirst, aiul that -, dealt with in iiaragraj^hs 7, S and 0, and it is curtaiidy dealt with in a manner vhich is exceedingly complioatetl, so much .^o that I am afmid [ shall Itave some ' itViculty inm;'':ing it phiiii to your Lordshiji-, 'ov \ have had the greatest diilicultv :il li'Om gtl ooiiL'li It to undorstan'.l wliat is mean t: b uv, tbiidv I do Jinderstand I i.iking 7, S and 9 together, what is meant by these three paragraphs. 'I'liey pur- ""spose of that fund, the Quo'oec Turnpike Trust, wliicii under the Ith the conjoint property of Ontario ami (Quebec. Now, my Lords, this said there : "That from the Common School Fund as held on the 30th 7.'" 1 call your Lordships' attention to that date. You will remember !t was passed on the29ti. March, I8G7, but it provided intheSrd section [ajosty shoidd be authorized to issue a proclamation as to the date for e Act into force, and that is the date, I think, on wbicli the Act was by ion put into foice. The 30th of June, 1S07, was the date of the pro- putting the A f'M' II to force. "That fr(.im tlu' Common School Fund a,': le 3Uth June, 1807, by the Dominion of Canada"- therefor*!, that that the I)ominii)n liad taken pos.'-ession of the Common School Fund ting to iii 1,733,221.47 (of which $.58,nni) is invested in the bonds or 'ii'bentures of the Quebec Turnpike Trust, the said sum of ^58,0(11) being an asset mentioned in the fourth schedule to 7'/" llrUhli !\'vrlh Aim v'nji Act, 18G7, as the '.hiebec Turnpike Trust."; Now they arc dealing with that -"the sum of $12-1,- c- I'ort to dif r. -.•hedule is ;i- il what is s 1'! ■lime, 1861 I. iliat the A icr tiiat Her ]\ il! I'Utting tin i-r proclainati 11' I'liunation ,i: held on tl '■ recognizes 1" ■'amount ■^5.18- shalliie, and the same is icrebv tal en (icilU' ana iilaced to tl le edit of the iippcr Canada lmi)rovemen( l-'iiud"- -that is tiie Ontario Improvc- lont Fund— ''Ihe said stim of $l24,(!8r>. IS brii 1^' one loiu th jwrt of nioncyi r-^th;:^:--: tl 'I'ceived by tin; late i'rovinct! of (Ja,nada between the Olii Maicli, ISt)!, and the »^lii:,;,nj^:.;;|l,| HSkm Mm »v.ii'i''.'.1r^ v: ..i' * c;l ■ 1 { ■ i ■. 'I Si I '■ 1 I't-.f ■ i i mm'A . , 1 J ■■"—*-■"- -■-■rg ■ill i fl .?« lip jf t -" m a.5 '5s - . 4^ : * ^IMB-***** liiriMinniiiiriWiiiriiMii Tnniirtiifiriiiiillfrii- titl^^ilfeliiiBBiiiil^iwj&x 1st July, I'j'lT 'III accotiiil; i)f Coiiumdh S-liool L;m.ls -.uld hcitweoii the lltli Jiilv. IS't'A, iin(] tlio .-aid (!th Maicli.ISdl ." Ymir LoriUhip..: will sec; that is oxoeedin^K- ooii;)lieatt;ih ami those ilates will rcijuire t'mtlH.'i' cliKMilatinii, hut I li(>|io to jmt yon ill j)u-5-('.'ii(iii of what the luoaiiiui; ut' thi- ivilly is. Then parairrHph 8 jj-rti-s on ami s ly.-i : '"Tliat the iesi(hio of rhu s.ii.l (.'iiiiiiiion Sell'")' I'uiul. with tlic iMvestiii'Mit- !i!'lutij^iii^' thereto a.s at'dresniil. shaii ei)iitiiiiiL' to ho lieM l>v the Dnmiiiiiiii (i! t 'atiihia. and the iiieanio ivali/eil theri'l'i-'in troni the ^titli.Inne. IStiT, and whieii .-lia!! he hereat'toi realize. I tln'iefrnm sii ill lie apportioned, hetwei'ii and paid over to the respective l^roviiiees of ( )nt r.io and (>nehe{', as dirceti-cl hv the otii se';tioii, (!ha|iter '2'!. of T/if C'ti.isn/ii/iitt'i/ Sfii/i't- 'i of Ciiniiila with reii;ard to the .-lUii! of s-j(iii.(ini) in the said section inontioned.'' I Uiiow your J..'.rdsliips cannot yer under.stand what is nie.mt hy it. I shall have, to show yon hy tlic statute wliat is meant. Then para^i'aph '.) : "That the moneys icoeived hy the >aid ['rovince t^f ( >ntario, since the odth.lnne iStlT or which shall luireafter Ik; received liy ;;i" .-aid I'lMvinco from, or on acconnr, nf, the Coniinon School Lands .'ict a|)arf iri ni ! of rhe (.'iinniuni Seiiools (>f tin; late I'rovince of faiiaila, shall he paid to thi; l)i million of Can;ida to hi; invested, as ]»iY>vided hy section 'i of s;iid <'!iapter "J'i •; T'l- L'odsil'fhv-il S/./n/frx /,/ ('unmla aiul the income ilerived there- from ^lnli ii.-. liividud, :ii)|i'iiTi..ined and paid lietwe(Mi and to the said Provinces of Ontario :i:i!! (Juehce ri>pecti'. ^sly, a.- provided in the .siid oth section, chapter '_'•>, y'\ I:'N.:i'_iMe when w-' refei' !.» rh:it ehaptei •_'(', nf 77 . CcnsoHiliikd Stnful- ^ r.f' ( iiri'iij.! . p'i'>!is!icd ill I -."i!'. and r loii reading,- thit, we are alile to iinderstniid wh;ii ti!.; ari i'liiT'ir; nuMi.o. Tlii.-: i.- a ^!lOl•t st;ituu- fortunately containing' only i! or 7 sv';?.'-':,-. Ir i..; ; ■•.!,/ .1--' /•■ y. .■■'//)'/ //,-' I* nh'' • Sfli,i'i /•,'/'/(•,;;/,,,,.■' That is wlu'i! rlie tv'.'i I 'i'o\inces w ere- ro^utlicr. Then the iji'st s.'c.'::.';!. ippropriarL:! "!;e millio'i ,if aei'e-. "The ( '.inimis.doner of Crowe Lands, h.iv!; ■_• niider the p'ovi-iun- nf rhe .Vet 1-2 \' ic. ,(•:'.!>. 'ii't\ and under tin- liii'cctioii ••\'].i} ( i(i\-eiaiori;! (.'ntiiieii, s"r apai* :!;■ i iippr^'priated one million ot- a(;ri;s (.f pui.iic lands for common .•■eh' inl purpo.-e-. and porli^'ii^ thereof havin.;' Iieen'di-; d •:' nndei- the said antiioiaty the reiicdndi.'r shall he di.sjio.sed of," aiid io f..i;i , "and the ii;ii'ie\ nri.-iiiL'; fixnn the .-d'- ^r disposal of any portion ot the s;iiii !•::: '■ .-h.'dl remain or he invested ami apphed towards crealiiii; a capi'ai sum stitliei'Mit lit the rate nf six pei' cut. p • annum interest to produce a clear sum of ij liiii.n 111 p|.f .imium, and >ne!; capital and the inc.imi; therefrom shall form the ( ommoii tSchoo! fund." 'i'heii (;eitain moneys shall he paid. Then the 2nd scefion -ays : '-AH moneys arisiiii;- afti-r the '27th ^lay,l^.■Ml,frulll the sale of any IHi'die lands of the Province, shall remain or he set ajiart as part ,!iiii;'-')it (.• upwards, there lial III- "-r,."!! lei W. 1 1'-.- 1 v \( arlv the ,-uiii of S2i>n,0iii), -nd such sum sh;- C IJOIIIJ iii.a'le u:i o f the aniiua! iiicnine and n ■ri\e(| from th. ?:: = -j» 7? , t ■% ri i •■I'liitU'riit i .i- iV flie oi >iii vciir t( 1 .lllicll, lift , ■ lllC |iM|)|lI •;■• ScIk.mI I ■ iMMll- of it . 1 1, so tar, ( :■, ' 7fl' S(;cti :• ■servo itiit (. ',::' oiie-foiirl I, 'Ills ill ;i(u- ;.!i(li' fur pii i'li'cHdii of A't ni \sr,~- ' 'U -.virh t)ii; ; I tiiiKifioii- iM'l.'iiim nr (I !riJiv> of ('i ■ ■ lit the Vi •■ i;!iir-(fOVci ..si'iit of rlr ■:iii('i!s, Oi' I.' Il!e;i;iiir-(i ■ ' 'Mjlli-lo O ' IK. 'I,!, l.f V-. '.iiil 'ill' l],[ : <''.i!i:i(i.t, (1 ■ 'li'' 'M.-.' rt - ~'-}i M'fii, ■ • i'MiM|vni.( ::,U ,,}■ :,nv 'III' ililpi'r, " ( HI', criii))'- '■ ■■;■ liie Ciiiu ■ 'ion of tlio '^i^ion--, ai: ■ 'iiiMrurs ;ii»- '■■' *'o\ci'i!(ir- ' 'ho p'ni'ei'.-; ; fn!ii-l!i of I 'I .'iic I'pin-r ( '} 'li(^ l.iinj (ii,(v ''•ii:iiiriu.rizer "■|>iiu'er.s ot '■'>i.'i. Si:r,i ■'■ii'tli. r do lit -Mi;. JJi'x,, l.i'i.'i) Si:i,i Mi:. itr.N,,. ■■'■liictc! ,'irul l.niiip S|,| I ■ '. ■! I ,. ' ' ■ ' " I'.l IX'i'li , Ml,'. |:,.;v,. '' ' I'-'lilcution ] ^WWPPP*-; JTTvnim^r^'^.T '^rmy-m i >1\ Vl •nainnMil I'lilid" mill til :t) iciiiicx' to iii:ii Tlio siiid SI. in of s-Joo mod aiiiiii,illv kIiuI ;''ill I ■■111 I \ciir to year. Ite a|i|)ortiiMi(M| liv oimIlt ol the ( lovvrnor o f tl lib irovmce in i(;II, l)L't\vt"i'ii l'|t|ifr ami Kowri Caiiaila. in |)iopnition to tin.' rolativi; iiiiiiil)crs liic |ri|)iiIation i>l' lilt.' i^aino r('s|H'!tivi;| y." Now rlio arhitratois liavo said that School Fiiiid. ')t'iiiir inif ill the i).»>su^ >loIl ( )t" thi> iJomiiiioii of (Jariaila, tlio iiiiii' ( .f ic lia II IC i(i|)oiiioM citaltlihhud liy that .")tli sucti on, i|, so lar, ol' c'oiii'si', it is in oxact accordaiifo with the statiit r.iit. nn L(»i(lt' 7tl' secti(.!i ot' I ho staiiito piovi.lus tlii? The (lOvurnor-iiiCJoiincil may :rvcont of tl:(.' prucei'di' of the School LainU in any county a siitn not oxoccmI- oiiu-foiirth of such prixim-ds, and out of tlio procooils of iiiiapiiropriated Crown (Is in aiiv I'otihtv a sum not cxot I'dimj^ oiiotifth thoivof.- such sums to It ih for piilili*^ iii:)>rovoinonts within tho county, and to !)(> expondeii nndei' tho I'Ction of tiif < lovoi'm'r-iii-Coiii.fi Now. mv l.ordi*. take section 12 of tl 10 .\ 't of \st]~ — rlio I)Mniinion Act —and that section provi(k> a.s follows in ooruiec- 11 witli this ( rti) .-fi.'iioli of till' tl 10 .^Clloo L IIUl Act All powciH, aiitlioritiori ,■ I fiiiictioiis. wiiirii li.idor any Act of tin? Parliament of (Jroat i'litaiii, or of the i-.rraiiH lit of the ('iiiteii Iviiiij.loiii of (ireat llritain and Ireland, or of tlie Logis- f rpi'c: Canada. Lourr ('aiiidi. Canada. Nova Scotia or New Uniiiswick, ll'CS o af tlie I 1 ri '.'o'eO 111 or exerci-.ihl lIlt-( "I'llt fOVel !!i'!- the !•'' tliose I'l'iivincr-, wit! p\ the re.-i icctive ( lovernoi'd or ilOU- iiici! iitciiai o)' \',i:'i :,c\ ;i he advice, or with the advice .ami Kxcf:ur:\"' (_.iiiicii> thereof, or in ci.n junction with tlio.sc uiidior "I inemliers rherenf. or iiv those (lovernors or r-(. Mp,dtie oi •1... I :iMiv;'!ii:iiiv . .;'!'';seii, a lie 'ir as I Ik e V'.-;iv I :i!;;Ul,l, o! .' hi' e.ise ii ;|!i ■ Tih section ' CI . i ,• :)!isi'ii: o: :|0(-|-; line roiiliniio 111 exidtenec lion ill le! ;iioii t'. till! Coverniueiil of le advice ( M)V(!rnor ( Jeiicral. with tl ■ I' i;i 'nn |uii •! ii n with the <.>neeii rivv INmncil ciin- i!"r ill' of ,11 III'.- !^ i-(i!iir V a .-'.iiii I: y the ( ioveriior Cencial individually . Acts of I'ailiaiiient. \Vo have, then, IiKMtioii l''iiiid Act. which vests in the if the School iiiveii fi>r ;'e-''i\'e o lit id ti le pi'Meci'd ,. vi-ii liiiiii' one f. iirtli to lie nil' iiiinr u>\ enioi ■ ;i-.-,i- v,-|'!i;ii ; "oi.iir'l. that I V (II exoemleil •I- liiC , liiOM. ,T>!e(! iii th' under the direction of ■ |n.'rfecll,\ sii>ceptihle of oxoicise 1 iioi -(ieiieral ol Moil id' tlie 1 )i>'.:lilli 'Virions, an I f tiie '.irafuis tile apj>i)iiitiHl An. N. II V aii.idal.y the liith L mis, in direct \ iolatioii of those provision- 'd' '!:e li.'rli. section of tlie Act under which the liev have ;)>>nnied to exercii^e the power reserved for vrri!or-vierii'ral in this Vth s'.;cti.iii. mid iliey have exeicised it in excesfi even die jioweis which ho had. for llioy iiavo hy the Vth paia;,'raph provided that the fourth of th;' muiioys received is "taken mid deducted and placed to the credit lu: I: pper Can li iproVfineiit (•uiid They have taken from the proceeds lie laud one -fourth, mid havi; not in any way or shajteeven exercised the discre- Vth tcction of the Act, which if t/iey had thoriii;lit to exercise a ;iii;ihii'izeil liv ih t tiio ( IHIWITS O < loveniot I, S )i.'ii M:i,iiiucxi: - 1) o you say .llicv ha nth. 1 do not (iiiito follow tiiaL '. ve taken out from the proceeds one- .M 'I i:. 1>i:n.ia\[|\ : 'i;ii Si:M;i.;|;\r ft s,. ys so in the ^e\ellill paraL;rap I •I'e ii i|oe-. Ml-', I Mlrtc, «1 .S.I A Ml. ami >ei|i; foiirih placed lo thi^ eredil of ti V ••and the .']• Can line i.-, herehv taken ind Ilia lm|iio\-ei iieiit Fiiiul. ■I !, iiiip S:,i r.oi.'Ni: : 1 )o yo;i !v!im\'. aii\lhii:ii' almiil the previous hisforv o f M lieen >loi;c iiinl'i ill. Mi;. r>i:s.i A\iiN : \ Ii.im^ju-' reel ti« \oiir l.onlshiji the .\et which creati.'.s I'Miication l''unil. m ,vXj 'Hi': f I ■. f :>m [ i' ' ' l^'^f •'■A\A n, I >H (I ■4 m. ;A:i;i f'* ♦ ■•'ii.^'i!! iii ■^M-' V^^TSr:.--"^ *>.v^»fl|»«|)j';«rv-»«W»V»!^ ■.\ .« Mij'i.-AV.-*.' --''«..■■, t^•^^i. i >> $ 5 55: 'IT •>*... IX] V. 'i •"iiiiiritim -1 iirfif iiTilfi iTiTi^iViiii'iiiiriiiiriiiiririiii'riti'ii LoKi) SKi.iiuitxi: : — W'lnrA was tluit j);is,d ? ^[r. BixjAMiN : - It is ill the Uuvisod Statuteti. Sni .1 vMEs AV. C((i,\ ii.K. : — ISoO. Lkuo'Ski.uoknk :- -Tiit'ii it \va> passed oigiit years before tliis statute with) wliich we are dealiDij,-, ami in the tneantiiin! soinethiiii; might have liappeiiedl which, if wo knew ahuiu ir, inii;'ht |jos.siI)ly oxphiiu it. Mr. lii-N.iA.ui.N' : - Wo have this Act which explaiii.s it. The Act of ISfiO ex-l .plains in what cases ono-t'ourth of the proceeds of the lands vliicli are appropiij rited ti» the Education Fund may he abtracted frori that fund and used tor im-j provenieiits. l.ORK Sklborni; : — It gives a ])owcr in the terms yoii have read. What I want tu know is, wliethcr We have any information as to tiie manner in which that pcuver ha? been exorcised in tlie eight years which had ehipsed before the j Doniiir''»n Aor was pas:-e>l, or whether it had been exercised before? Mk. iU:x.r.\Mix : — I iiave none. I.oKU Skleokxe : — If we knew those facts, miglir it not completely explain! this seven'h paragrapli of tlie award ? M'.. Dknjamin : — I du iii.r tliirdc so. J.i.'Kii Sf.t.borxk; — Perhaps yim wil! show it was impossible. !Mk r!KN.iA.\n.N' ; -Tiiat is wiiat I lione to do. The jirovision that antliori/osj any /liv-.-vsion of tli;- l.ii.uMti'.'ii I'nnd fr-jui education purposes, is the seventuj bfCti'.)! ot "!:•. Act will' h ]ii'. 'N i''i.- the iiiii'l. It theif is any other law authorix.in!. a i.i'.v-,:' '■.': frii!)i tlu I'ui!'!. i i;> liiciids must .sIkiw \t ].',;:■ .'';.;, 11'.": v! : Si |'[';i.-i!iL;, liefore this av.aid was made, the pr'ipei .'.:/,!i' .■;: 1 '..a! caki.'i. '.'- -nin "t •SlJ4.i;sr) anii iifaelicaliy thci'e had been lliati wl/.'^h i~ !i.'Cnti'':K''.! !:. *:.•■; .-jv">'!)tii .-ci'lion here' M"i:.-;!lnj \Mix :- -! •'"■.>iiM aii.-woi ihat in I v,.' \',-ays ; first, that thi.s does n.it| prutes- \<< Mtlfy any'hiii^^- tliat has liceii d'liie, \<\\'. ])iiiresses to be an act of thof atliir ill tlie L'Xciiise '.'i" ihi'ii om n authority : ■.nid Secndly, J would aiiawi r)iat !,'■.• one couki li ive ii ■.^ith'.'iu Niojatiiig the iaw. I.'..:",' Sr.LKowxr. :• It' y^'U cm, tli.nv th.it. tlicii your observation, would lid -v'l' •', iN'iial : bu' .-!ip;i 'r'ng *liat i- not .r>.l siionM say,eomparing the seveiuhj |iar; Lraj.'- 'A'itli the 'w>' ;;:at f'lllow ii. tii.it it i^- 'i^iiits' po.k'ibie they might thiiikj tiial 'lie urnis of that |ii\vioi!> Act wvtv to be applied to the division between] the two I'rovineos. Ml;. r.EN,i.s.Mi:.' : U' hen you have before you tin; previous >\ct, you will b;'e' that the sngi^estiou vonr l.ordshi|) makes, is ;iii impossible one, as I submit. This Is what tlie pievi.)',]- .Net says may be done. The (ioveinor-in-OoHneil may reserve out of the p uceedh of rlie School Lands in any county a sum not exceed iiiu' "'lie fourth of such [iroceeds, such sum to be ;i fund for public improvements uitliiii tl e county. That is tu ^ay, there weri' .a hiillion of acres appropriated to jMiblie eiluc'tion. There may b." ciicuin-raiir''s under which tlie liovt-riMr miiiht think that a sum not exceeding our foiiitli of the lands sold in a eooiily might pia.perly be u -ed \\ithin thai eoiinty for thv impiovement of the county. 1,o;m> Si i.iioiiM. : Suppose thai the ( Joverno;' (ieneral in the exercise of that jiower had appioj«iiate I lauds in every county in I'pper Canada to makt! su/h n ii'servatioii, aii-<: ■: '■K-m.i- .*«l»»wri»'»».-i»'5.«»"'.«.««")r.T'»i»»«iiri r ilffflKfrfii feafiMfft^'iiiflia frj la liUiin Si.i.BoKMC : — Ir is lint SO. u!iil tlib i^rUMo is liorcby tiikini aiid (ItMiucted, iiid pliicofi to rhu credit of the Upper C;iiiada Improveiuciit l-'und. " Tiiat is a Jind Buppo.-ifd to he known and iinder?tof>d." Mi;. JIb.v.iA>riN : — But that is a fund for Upper Canada, and the law does not iiitliorize any deductioii for the General liuproveinent Fund. Ft autiiorizcs a • loduetion from the proceeds of .specific lands in a counfy for imiirovenients in \ iliat county. 'I' . Lo:;i> oKi.KOKNK : — There h nothing whatever hero which shows wh.it i.s to '.•(i done in the administration of the Upper Canada Improvement Fund, and for ,',1I we know there may have been an external law that determined it, and there is nothini:NMAAriN' : — Surely yo'nr Lordships are not to imagine a law that dops not exist and is not produced. Lor:ii Skluokni; : — Nur are yon to imagine facts which are not on the face of riie award . Mr BF:.N.iA>r[N" : — I may bo wrong, but I read the facts to be so stated here, l.ct me read it again. I cannot I'ead it in any other way. I try hard to read it otherwise. Ti;is i.^ the awatd, that from tlie Common School Fund, a poition of •vhich is inve-tod in this Quebec Turnpike Trust, "the sum of !i?12-t;G85 sludl l)e Mid the eaiiie is liereljy t.iken " — not has been taken, nothing has pas.sed — "and :iie same i- l.eroby taken and de:'ucted, and jdaced to the credit of the Upper ''aiuida Inipr veiucnt P\uii1'', Now 1 say tliat tiie law does not authorize that. They .^ay •.>.;, y ti:ey do it. "The said sum of 3l--l.^'!^-"'. I''g '^'^^-■'"om'tli P'"^'"*' '^^ ^Moneys ri.' ■e^'od by the lure Province of (!ana(ia, between tlie sixth March, l.sGl, ,.nd the h!:-' -Jr.'y. 1SG7. on accnv,tit of Common Sciiool LhikIh, sold between the ionrteoiitl: I'liiinor rl^ai; Fund tiiat i-i v.n-x \n the hands of tlie Doniiniiiri of (,'aiiad;i, whicli tliey say in the i'eginiil:!:: iias !)ten pl;;ecd in the liatals nf the I )iimiiiiiin of Canada. We now 'ike out s 1 L'4,ii'iii and giv(> ir to tlu' (niieral Impiuvoment I'und. Then when I i 'Ilk at til': ..'.w which proviiit.'s t'oi'whai the Coiiiiimn Scho"! Fund shall be, T find t^iat id! tiio profceds of rjif lii>d< nro rbc S irlatio:i t'l ii:;.j. fourth ..'f tli( -l>ccUie ''.y.'' [iti.^n with jiower givon to the Govi'rnor-iiiCoiuicii, not for the I'rovince in gcner.i!. luit in the ea.se ol a parti(;ular couniy to allow one fourth of t'le priice';ils uf the land of tliat county to ite used for improvements in that '■ 'unty. and there is no o'her power in tlie Krlucatinn Fund .Act to deal witli tlio I'luceeds of tiie land3,e.\ccpt to put them in the Education Fund. They must he put i.i the Education Fund. Tiiey can only lie retained out of it in the manner the .\ct points out. and that is in n mode whicli the Governor-in-Counoil has dis- i.'ietion to u--e. Now what is done nereis this, the School Fund is already in the li;nids of the Doiriininu. and these arbitrators assume to withdraw from the Com- mon Schu il l-'mid, in which we liave a cunnion interest. §124,000 and give it to •>iitario. Sn: Mmniaoif. P]. S.Mnii : — Is this School Fund mentioned in the Act at all? ^Ii;. I!i:'.\jA>ri.\ : — So. That School Fund is not part of the .'\ct. The reason is this, tha'. when you look at chapter 2*!, you find tliat that School Fund was not iiiiything in the po.ssession of the parties with wliich they could deal. It was a 1 1 list Fund. The money was directed by tlie Act to be invested in debentures. The Coti-olidated l''und i.=< to be invested in debcntuiev and the intcMUst is to be ^i'proii.ria^.'d in pi'opottinn !■> the inhabitants ; and then it s;iy.-i, as fa.^t as any I III. in; land is sold -it was nut nil sold — the proceeds shall go info the fund until Villi gi.» $-J"o,uiiii .i.ycai' in the fund, and then ilsav;-, when you sell lands, if in a I'litiuular c,)inity thci'c is a claim that niic I'ourth of tlu' proceeds of the lands in I i J".:ie. IS-'i". and rhe said s:.\tli Maich, bsfil." There can be. nothing ; riir.t. We hereliv declare that we take out of the Common School ands are the ScIhimI h'tuulaiu! that (he exception in lands sold being app.opiiated to im])rovements, is a ^"•^n.'THjtmn.its^rvri^ f w i pj| |i | ^rg?r*'i w7 r .fy r"''^'i^'^ ^ ^ w» i.»piit ir ^rp wiyi -iv^yf rn ^ »^-' '■'pn. 'I. .■,;!^!' i ' -V it ,•: U , 'i 74 that. I'oiiiity oiii^lit properly to ho dovc^tiHl to iiiiprovoiiu;iit piirpOi?es in rliiit ('(•iiiity, you c.ui make applica\i(jii to tlie (uivornor. and the (rovorhoi-iii-Ooiiiieil may, if lie thinks right in his discretion, keep out one-fourth of the proceeds of the county hinds for improvements in tlie county. SiK Mo.NTAiiUK E. Smith: — Wliat is your argument '. that tlit^y out;ht not to have dealt with tliat at alH Mk r>K.v,iA:«iN :— That thcv liave no ri^ht to take out of that fund tlic si24- 000. SiK AIoNTAOUK E. Smh II : — riad tliey any rij^ht to deal with the Sclioul Fund ( Mk. Dknj.\mi.n' : — Yes; they nnist do somcthint^ with it. Sir Bak.^ks Peacock : — Und-jr which clause of the Act do you say they an- dealing with this '< The 142nd Section ? Mr. Bkkjamin : — Yos. Sjk Uaknes Peacock : — IJut it is not in the schedule at .ol 'i Mr. Bkn.iamin' : — No; you ohservo cacli of the Provinces had agieat deal uf separate pro[)erty. Now they .say they have dealt with evorythinu; in the fourth schedule e.xcepf the Quebec Tarnpike Trust, and as to that, this is what they say : These (^iieliec Turnpike Trust dehentures are in thehamlsot the Education (Jon.niissioiieis who have invested the education money in them under the auihority - Dominion .vas m.-^de trustee. The Dominion has been in jiO'ise.ssion M(".:ordiiiix t.' the statement hitice June.lStM. \\'e here in l.^Tti tuder 8l'^4,uin) to be taken wut -.t th.it fund H!id triver; to Ontario. N<)W we ask bir the authority, bcean-e i'. i- .i tni.-^t fund e.Ttablislied by law. "When we do look at the law wo do find ;i:i ;mi tlioritv tci wir!, jruw one-fourth of the proceeds under certain circnmstanees. .Ano what is that aiulpirity that in a pintieular county the 'Jovernor-in Council miy il.. ;i p;iilicular i hiiiir ' 1. oi.'o Si i,i,o!;m. : — You want ns to ,is.-umi' that that is wron^r in total ir.n (if what Iiail iie.;i the adinini^tration ui thai .\cl and what had been tiieaet.- villus autlmriniv- in the interval. It it ipiito po.ssible il we knew woiiM ai fa lUi.V iP that this is uieniy an adaptation of an (!.\Isr.ini;- state of thinL.'-^- KS.I.^M i\ : — lint it is imnossilde under this Act that ttie U! f'l deal with 'lie procteds of the land in that couniy for improvement,-- in tin' ciiuntv. LoKD St.i.iJ0icNK : — Hut supposing that the proceeds from the sale ot all lai my county in Upper Canada had been constituted in I |)per (Canada an 'i Micut 1' uni if winch there woiih Ibe 1 lOoks ot acciii'ut kept in v/hich il iipri'V d U filtered to what county particular sums iielonged. What is tluM'o that uui inconsistent with that ''. \IK !k.njami.\ That is not what the arbitrators say. Loui- SKi.iioit.Mc : — You infer from the words dial! b am: th .UP' luieby taken and deducted and placed to the credit of " that there is ,in aUt lint of torin but of sulistance. iMij. I'k.v.iami.v : -'.['hey begin by taying there is ;i Sclmul I'uii' hi'iMi in the hands of tin; Dominion since IsIm. Tiiey are now in I ■""i llinifore speaking of a fund from which no dodiiction has ye' been n wi L i;i> Si;i.iioi:.NK : — How doo.- that appeal ^^^^^^^^P^^^W^frV .^■T-T rF:-r^»^t^f^'^': ft ^!5 H' .l::it Lord i "ii^Iit linvo Mm. n ■'iiie of tlio 'J 11 euuntv '''iiiicil. \ "niifil. 'i 'iiiera! m l\Ui. J^K.N.i \Mr.\ : — T.ct us iv;u] it. "That frani tlin Cnininon School Fund as held I'll tli(!.')()ih ut thi>j is in tlie hands of the Dominion. LoKO Ski.jiou.vk ; — It might still l)e in the hands of the Domini :)n after that ivservation and it miglit still stand to the i^encial head of tlieCotninon School 1 iind. That $5S,t'iO(), whiiiii is clearly part of the funds now standing, is really dealt with as- a specific asset. It is distinguished for some reason, though we do not know what. Mi;. Bkn.ta>[in: — Ir is said in the Act to he a joint asset. It turns out that it ;- a joint asset, hut a joitit asset in this sense: That those debentures have been i.iiiglit by t-e i'ublic School Coiiiiiiissianers, which Public School Commissioners li;ive a fund beltn-ing to the two Provinces, and, therefore, it became necessary Mr the ailiitia'.'jis, in order to diepose of this Quebec Fund, to say something i'liuit it "Wiiat ihev say about it is this: that it is included in the Education Fund, and, tin rei'.rt.-, we do not distril)iite it directly. That is the first they say jliuut that fund. Sii: MoNTA'.fK E. S-Miiii : — h is only a small part of the Education Fund. ]\Lk. Bkn,! \min : — Oidy a iiicie tlea bite out of the total. SiK Mo.Ni.\';i'!: E. Smihi : — 1' .~ee it is only put in a parenthesis. Mil. 1>f.n,;ami-v : — It is merely to show choy have not overlooked that par- iiilar joint ajset. I am not C'Miiphiining of their dealing with tliat. They are i'.'Ounting for the reas m uliy rliey are not dividing it ; that it belongs to the Iviiication Fund, and the Edueution Fund belonging to the two, they deal with ::i(i Ediicatiuii Fund, and in tlmt fund is the §58,000 which tho Act says is tho '■ iiit property. Loiii) Si.!.noiiM. :---It seems to bo a very inconvenient thing to be raising 'ifctions of this s(Mr wJiich might 1)0 elucidated if we knew the facts. SiK MoM.\ Ski-rounk : — You art! coming to a body ignorant of the facts and with 'Statement of the facts. Then you de8i;'e certain inferences to be drawn from '! It appears on the face of t^'C award. Mii. Benjamin : — 1 only refer to the statutes. I do not refer to a fact out- -'<\i' tho statutes. LoKO Sei.buknii; : — But in this interval of several yeaVs a great many things iiif;ht have been done which would throw light on it, to say tho least. Mk. Bii.NjAMi.N : — No doubt the Governor might have given some countj '!iHj of the fund ; but that does not affect this question which is not giving a fund ' a county by a (bivornor but an assumption of authority by the arbitratorSj liicli by'thuAct under which wo are dealing is reserved to the Goveriior-iu- ''imcil. What is lioiie under eeetion seven is to be done by the Governor-in- "iiiieil. Tiivy usurp the powers of the Governor-in-Council and deal with the j'ijrct matter' whieli l»y tin; Dominion Act is s[>ecially reserved to the Governor- ".iieral of the Dominion, and which tiie Crown said was to he c;o ixs:;rved, Tlioy t;:rwwj ^j i yff ' yy '» » jf M| ^ ^ ■! 1 m ■ P ■' I ■'ri'-'l'fi'nl -i '•». ni *^ "•^ i^ ^ *^ . V ! •': f ^- : —f t "■-. 5 ■** Ms •» i^'^ ,'n 5«- V ■*., .^^;^ «' ■-•„ ,'■ * -;. •y :.i*.- ■.'■') f^ f ' '1? ,'. ^! '■H: '" ^k (leal witli it, aiul ileiil with it in a inaimer in uliich by law 'no is not aiuhur.'zci) ti. deal with it, lie(;'iu>(' 'ly law ho could nut do this ; th<; law only authorizes hiiu tn take ititn (•(>n>idi'i'!Uioii whnt ih dcni! in a particular county. Su; Bai'.m:> Fhacmk i—Doub not tiiis [lartMitlifsis with roforenco to.tlie ^.^S,. (i(»0 throw bouio li^lit mi tho i.iiio you wtMo previously ilipcu.ssing as to the $ISS_. OOO i 'I'hoy say the i^r)"^.oi)ii hiivu 'oi'on iiivt-rtt"! in clohcntnrt'.- of tho Quehcc Turn- pike Tiu-it, and tiioy aie dcscrilied in the fourth schedulo as "The QnebecTurii- pike Tiiisf." Tln'reforo it' ihat fiun was to ho investe I in the Quebec Tui-iipike Trust, and the debentures are desciihed at, he Quebec Turnpike Trust, nuiy not the $1 "^8,1 KIM bi- an invest nieiit l)y t!ie Government in tho debentures of tho Montreal Turnpike Trust ? Doi'S not that throw sonne little light on the !?1S8,- 000 i This paragraph (-eems to throw some light on the meaning of the other para- graph : -Mk. Ijkn.iamin' :— It shows that tlie ^18^,00(» did not belong to the Govern- or. Siu J'akni:^ Pj.acoi k : — It ratlier showed nie that the ^188,000 thero. meant that the (nvi.riior had inve^itu 1 ^188,000 in the debcturos of the Turnpiki; Tjust, and T!.;:r tiiey were describ'.-ii in the schedule as"tlie Montreal Turnpike Trust," becan-e wlii.-u he has moneys investeil in debentures of tho (inebeo Turi.- pike Tru>-t. r;;ey .ire dcscriljc 1 in the same schedule, under the head of "(.iueiiiic innipiKe i r;.-'. Mu. i'.i..N.!A.MiN :- I uiider-tMnd the fact is rsot so, and it is not stated in tin.' case to !'e ho. u Sir My., i! Sii; 1' thi!i_'- ' l.ni:M Mi:. It >:iy,-: iiuiiiey- .-:, lliat is ro! fill' iMi.ds. Mild >i,w;'ii fou.nh. • 14th lav • '\;;:,:s I-'i.ai.'HK : — You know what tiio fads art! and we do not. .^•.1A^:I^• ; — That s)^s.ii|ii) i^ bold by th'' [uiblic ? Ai.N'i.- I'lvAi "• K : — Tiii-ii. J Ao not umlcrstand Ikjw it (;aii be an a.-.-ct. ;.•■.■.. wi.'N : — 'i'i:;:r is the complaint of Quebec, that you are jiuLlinif .■ -■'■:..■!. ;;!e n.'* ;i--ct-. Si i :;o!:\i.. : - Ari.- v..u izi'ing to attack the 10th paragraph { <.iA.N!iN :--'! iic li'ili i)aragraph I said I v.tjuld deal with separate '; t: ::ir I'lo'- ini;e of < )iitario .shall be entitled to retain (nit ■ i>f -;; .:• ccni. fir tlic -ale and nianai;enient of tiie said lands.'' So far n^.ii. \\(,: d'.> Hot (ju.'.^'rel with it. Soniebodv must manau'e and ,- ' -1, ]'!:>.• arijitial":'- said that l)niario .-hould sell and manage the l.ti^i- 1 ii :V(.' ^i.\ per ceiit. for it but iliey th(>n ^^^o on and give them fliis oii"'- And that oiie-fourtli of the proceeds of the said lands, sohl bc'wocii tli- it'.Inne, I*';");;, am! ilie said *>th day of i\larcli, 18GI, received siii.e t..' I.^th I.iy iji .luiic. I?il7. or which may be hereafter received, after ded'icting t; •• c.\pen-es of .-uch maiugcmcnt as afoi(.said, shall be taken and retained oy the f^'v.d Province of Ontari-.i, ])ei' the Upjier Canada Improvement Fund." Now, ii:_> Lords, that is what will hereafter \iv received. Sir .Jamks \y. Coi.vii.i; :•— That only coiitonplates what was done under t:>- two previous paragraphs? Mii. l!i:\.iA.vi.\ ■- It amounts to this. I think it is impossii)le not to .ice when you compare the statements of the aibitrators with tho Acts, that the [aiwi r given to the ( rovernor-in-C'ouncil, to be exercised in a certain way, under c.-itam restrietiiins in his discretion, with reference to making an allowance to [)a;ticn! i: countie- from the [)rocecds of lands sold in the county for improvements in ti.i- county, has ijccii u.iur|;ed by the arbitrators and taken away from the Cii.V(.;r!i".' in spite of the liiHi section of the Act; and that they have there dealt witli tli • Iniprovtinent I'und in ;i manner contrary to law, and contrary to the very cct!-'- of the .Xct wiiich aiithori/es thoiii to execute the award. .N'i.iw. !ii\ l.nnl.-, tin; lltli paragraph we do iiot complain of. 'ihc 11m r-:'- e.v.'ict accoid \'. 'th oaraivranh-- JO, Hands, and the 13th pi'.rai;'ra[)h is jiurlcci'v 1:4' ' i: t.'t.T w ■ 77 y^ Loiii) Skmioknk : — T want to niiik'rst.'iiid this if pos-iblt;. It ecoine that as ht'twoei) Upper and Lower Canadii, thuy taku all the I:i;.a.s -sohi, or to be sold, and j;ive one- fourth apparently to the Tipper Canada Iniproveinont Fund. Mk. Bknmamin : — An-l the rest renuiins in the common fund, out oT whieli Ontario is to >^ot its .share. Sir .I.\Mivs W. CoLviu: : — Under the utii section of the old statute? Mu. Bkn.iamin :--Ves, and under this av.ard. Tlie 9tli paragraph says: "That the moneys received by the feiid Province of Ontario since tiie 13th day of June, 1S07, or which shall hereafter i)e received by the said Province, from or on account of the Common School Lands, set apart in aid of the Common Schools of the late Province of Canada, shall be paid to the Dominion of Canada, to be invested as provided by section 3 of the said chapter 20, of T/ie Consolidated Statntt'fi of Canada, and the income derived therefrom siiall bo. divided, appor- tioned and paid between and to the said I'rovinees of Ontario and Quebec res- pectively, as provided in the said 5th section, chapter 20 of 77*1? Consolidated Stat nUi of Canada, with regard to the sum of §90(1,000." That we are not com- |)laining of, but then what we are complaining of is that, whereas the (Tovernor liad not deducted from certain sums oixi-fuurth which, by the 7th section of the original Act, we had autlunity to deduct, they assume the power in l)is place to deal with the whole subject matter for ten or fifteen previous years, and say that the wliule i.i that is to be divided in this way. Ontario to take one fourth, and tiie re.-t to go with the eurumon fund of the two Provinces, of which Ontario will get its share. We say that that is a direct violation, not oidy of the Education Act, hut of the I'irli section of the Act under which the award is made. LoKi) r^HLBoKNi:: — You say that this gives to Ontario a portion not only of the proceeds or tiie land .^oid in Llppei' Canada, but also of proceeds of lands sold in Lower Canada, Mk. Ekn.iamin ; — (>r'all lands, it is without limit, and then it gives it its share of the Kuuc;-.liu:i Fund. LoKL» SiJi.noKXK: — And that by the Act of l*arlianient rcsgard should be liad lo the comity in wliich the lands were situated. ^^K. P»i.N.fAMiN : — And that the jiower was given to the (tovernor-in-Conncil and reserved to the Governor-iii-Couuuil 1)> the PJUi section of ihe Dominion Act. Tiie Dominion Act reserves that power to 'he Governor-Ceneral and it is taken by the iirbitratois. SiK Ij.vknes Pe.\''o( k : — Then 1 suppose you would say also that Ontario ijould not apply to a particular county because it does not know out of which county thisgeneral fund has come. They could not. if tliey wished it, apply it in the way pointed out in the Act. Mu. IjKn.iamin :— -It is in every way in excess of the i)ower granted to the arbitrators, and tliat is as to a fund of §1,. 500,000. LoKi) Skluoknk : — If I rightly understand you now, you say it is even inoie than what the Governor could have done. Mi{. Benjamin : — Yes ; it is in excess of what the Governor could have done. It usurps his powers, and tlien it goes far beyond what he could have done himself if he had exercised the jtower. I ought to lell your Lord.ships one thing which I. have just been informed of by my clients, and so that 1 should not deceive you in any way. 1 am told that all the publi(; lands that were sold were situated in Ontario. LoiiD Ski.hou.nk : — Then, of cour.se, every county in which any land that was sold was situated must have been in Ontario. Mk. Bkn.iamin :- -Ts'o doubt ; but 1 do not think that that affeots my argu- ment, ^'our Lordship a.iked me the question just now and 1 answered it without any idea that the land,- were all in one Piovince, which, of course, it is proper that your Lordships should b(! told. ■ fe;. :'*: i' m--^ ill 1 '» . i •I'.i ! ./• 'iv^^f^j;^^:^"^ .I*,' '■^J^: ■'•?■ /!' '' 'x § ''■: It ; fl.' • V ■ * '4 if 1 ^5 ^1 If,- i:ii SiJ.iJoKNl: :- -TiKM tin- ruscrviitlKti luUliori/oil I>\ tin; Ttli si^f.-fion (jonkl uiily 1)1' iiii|ni(Vi'iiieiit.s in Ontiinu. Mi:. I ' i„\.( A M I N :- Ami only i>t tlic hnids in um- I'diinty, the iiiiproveiricnta in that cijiitity. TiiK LuiMi ("iiAM;Kr.i,uK : — Do von ftiy nil Mii.' Soliool L;uiils wore in ITppur Canatlii .M(£. 15i;n,iamin :— Yes ; so my (lionf teil-i me. TnK A'itoknky-Gk.vkiiai. :--An ! all in onoronnty '. Mi:. 1>i:n.iami\ : — No. .'IIK TIOIJ.NDV C4knki:ai. : -Ti RTo is not a siirirlo fact al)oiit this in tho case. Mi:. liK.v.iAMiN :--I am now putting s^onn'thim,' in iho casu in your favour. r ,o!:ii SKM'.oii.vK :- Th liovv-ihc t'xtivmc incoMvoniunco of dealini' with the subject without any facts. Tliat faot at once removes wliat seenictl :i very foriuid.'ible olijecrion, po far as that o!)jeetion went. Mi:. Bf.x.iami.v : — It (li.l nut .-eem tome to remove tho ol)jectlon as to the usurpation of rhe power. LoKii Srr.iiOKNK : — It removes tlie p.ntienlar olijeetinn tliat they would be irivinj; to Onraiio wh:it the statute liive- to 'Jneliec, Siu Jamks W. ('oi.vti.k -0 .ii'be..' eoulij have yot norhiiiir under that. Mk. f'.i n.iamin : — (Juebte coiiid have yot notiiiii:_', ]tiit t!ie re.?ervatioii is to he made our u*^ tiie jtrooeeds. .iiid not to he taken frmn th('Sehi)ol Fund after tlie School Fund has Ijeen formed anil inve.-ted in the haml.s of the Donmiion. This is a pi.Aver no reiser vti; nned hv rhe ailiirnitois to tike it h;u'k even where; tliere has been had lor fa Till- A !ii:.'.Mr.v(Ti,NKi;M. ; — I w.uiM sulpinit to your Lordships if the partie- !v iiiteni-Ie some lac.'t-. siu-li a < I j'elereiice to 1,1 if 111' •f can thr ow aiiv li :lir upi i.i!l 1 n ;t. ii'.'t "lie this ti> he raised, they would have stated •t a ,-ini:ie fact stilted in the caao that lU're i> no Sir MoMAi,!.! K. Smmii :— Nor is it leterredto in the ouestion Tin. Ai r-.'iiN'i vGi:.ni.i;ai -< )iitario elt eiitirolv in tlie dark as to w liat the fact.- Sii: li that tl le aw o!;Ki:i I'rd is 1'. (oMlKi; 3 bad. Mij>pMse it would ci.tne under the general hcaanie objection in the beginriinr, and your Lordships have derermined that we -lionld beheail on all the ))oints and id- then vour Lordslii|is will see tli.at the ease as stated iloes not tell us what oceurrer, and coiisoijuently the whole of this that wo are comi)laii iin I uf jccurrcd duriiiir these i'O or 30 sittinirs. wl O'^) len _t apjiears that Ontario had the oppoi'tunitv of urjjini,' its own case, TiiK Loi:i) CiiANcr.t.i.oi; : — The joint case is stated by both parties and Uiat is the form in which you have been content to state your case. Their fiOrd.ships dill not stop the course of the argumeiit. but they did keep o])en the cpiestion how far anythini,' was intended to be raised and is really meant to bo raised by this case. Mi;. P)]:n.ja.mi.\ :-Tf yimr Loi'd>l)ips should think the tacts bron_izht to your notice are ^rave facts on which yon ou<;ht to be informed as to the real state of the facts, of r.onise it is eiitiiely in tlie [lowei of your Lord.-liips to have the case staged ovf-r a'_'ain. 'Y Ml. ■iKO ( II AM t-.i.i.'ii; I d. not flu L'.nl.- !i!|).; ilesirc to I )U III Jonui.Ml on first iiistaMce iiivlliiiii;' tint tilt, patties did not dr.-iiv them to br Informed on in tin ■:':*'^*^gfgg?^:^g!S ^ ' ' W'* ¥ ' -^ ' : ^^i'?i^-;^ ',r>-r">\'.'';:\' ■ .-v?. >v ■ -■: ■■i;(.-v' -■■•'■■■ • ■ •_.. ■.,■■ ■ ■■■ ■■■ ■ 1 W f.t T . ' j i^- ''^^''f' V "i ^M I- ^ - -5 ' I:' :$,,> !Z5 n If' ifiliiiiiiiitli nM: ?j) Mii. r>i':.\.iAMi.\ : -1 \v;i.s only iiriiiiiiii;' t'loiii tlic facts. 1 always tlioiiglit tluit an aif.!;iuiioiit on the face of tlie Acis of Parliament was open to anybody on any occasion [TnKiR Lounsiiii's (Ionsii.ti n.J I told your Lonlsiiips, just now on tnl-ning to my client, tliat the whole of the land was in Ontario. I think we tiave the rinlit also to state that the very points I am now maKini^ were raised between the pariif's in Caniida and that the last clause of thcqr.estioiis was put in for the |.nrpose of covering them. I sup- pose your I>ordships ivill take against me what I admit against my side and that I have no riglit to belie. e what is stated in our favour, My Lords, the twelfth paragraph of the award is open to the same ol)jection as paragraph 1. Montreal ITarbour i.s in the third schedule of the Act, and in the t'nrd schedule of the Act Montreal Harbour is a Provincial work to be the projierty of Canada — that is in the second of those items in the third schedule "Piiljlic Harbours." Then, my Lords, "the said arbitrators tirid that tiie del)r due on account of 8181,425.27 secured by debentures issued by the Montreal Harbour (Commissioners has not been charged in the statement of the del)t of the late Province of Canada." It ttierefore it:n;ain6 to bu dealt with. '• And they award, direct and adjudge, that should the Dominion of Canada hereafter |)ay anything by reason of the liability of the sai'l Dominion on account of the said del)entnres, the said two Provinces shall repay to the -^aid Doinini'in any sum so paid in the same proportions, respec- tively, as r!ie said Pniviricc^ aie hcreiniiefore directed to bear and pay the c.vccss on the ."I'T,!: day of .linii. \>i'>7, al)ove >i('i2,r)()(),0(i0 of the debt oi the late Province uf C'.iiiida." That is in section 1. and it is to bu paid in that propor- tion. Sni .1 \NLK> W. (.'ni.\ II.1-: ; -If the guarantee should become a debt then it is to bt- liivi-led as above stated '. Mi;. I'.rN.'.vsri.v :- ^ is. Then the iltli paragraph is the same. It tnkes the same b'i?!-. Tui: LmUd C'liANi'Ki.i.ou : — Vou see tlieie aiiaiii. if vou arc right about that, these geiitlemi.Mi were c.xtt'uting a parliamentary powor. It is not as it it was a private arl itration under a private instrument. J'!ithcr this was within their pMwer or was not It' it wa-^ not v.itjiin their parlianieiilary power it g(Xi.s for nothing, ii it is within their p irliamentiiry power to do what is done within sec Uoii 12, what is the olijcction to whether they have done it? Mk. J5i:n.i.\min :- If that be the true principle, the result will bo that all arbitratoih may on all occasions do whatever they like, leaving it to bo said what you have done in excess of your power goes for nothing. TiiK Loiii) CiiAN('i:i,i,ou : You ca.iiiot deal with it upon what might happen in ihc case of a private arbitration, itecau.se, though tho.e people are called arbi- trators, as was pointed out on the former occasion, it is merely because they must have some des(!ription. There is a certain thing to be done under a certain Act of Parliament Ity partieiihir in'ill recollect that I submitted on the last occasion that when PailianuMit st'lcets the word ''arbitralois'' I have the right to say that the word was selected <,/■ in(fi(stri('i, and that, therefore, it is to be treated as an arbitration and not as a valuation or ap|»rais(!nient of any sort. That Par- liament mii^ht have said, they .-liall appraise all the asset.^ and asec^rtain the amount of the debt, but that ihiy liav<" said they .-hall arliilrate. Then on para- u,'raphs 12 I'lid II Ihcre is nothing objeclioiiabK', except what I havesaid ; but now I call atten'loii to paragraph I."). Paiagrapli lo docs not piofess to b(> a final award o;i the iiiatlei- with which liicy arc dealing. They arc oidy aulhori/.ed to iiiaki- a linal a«ard. and this paragraph ITi say;-. : '•Thai the said several sinus it^imf^- lire til ' it'^r 'KSi Me i ^mm\ I ^l#'^*l (•■ ■ \ i ^l'''1 ,1 r-'-A :i' m ;i\v;irtleil ti» lit; |);ii(l ami tin'. .-uviTal iiiatinis and things awardcJ anil (tii'cctc.l to bu iliniohy or '.vith ruifanl to the parties to tliis rofcrL'iK.'c its pac lively as aforesaid, r-liM.ll rohiirf;tivfly he paid, received, flone, accepted and taken as and for full sati.sfiietinn and discharge, and :'.> ii iltnd end and determination of the several matters aforesaid" — not of the entire subject cotntnitted to them l>y Parliament. They select these particular matters and they adjudicate upon them. Loiin Skmiokm;:— You do not show that there are any dehts, credit.*, liabili- ties, properties or as.sets which they do not deal with. SiK MoKi.u.i K E. Smith : — Is this expressin*; more than is implied that their determination is final, and they say it is final. j\Ii4. l'>KN.f.\Mi.\ : — They say it is final upon the several matters which tliov have decreed. Sin .^^|>.^•T.\';^K E. S.mith : — That is implied and they have only expressed what is implied. If you can show that they have not decided matters which wore submitted to them, that would be a diiferent question. . Mr. B?:.N.i.\.\riN : — I think, T have done a great deal more, tliat is what I think about it. ::iy Lord.-. I do not know that I can occupy usefully the time of your a.iv further. I have stated the dill'crent points that have suggested ••• ri'.o, and th-y amor.tir to this : First, that this is a duty committed by Then Lordshij).-. themseUe- th(.' Act ..f pll't of tv.-M judgment ■■ jKirties rii"- tu the far- i;;i.-e, of tli'- biiul a dis-': |i|-|'SCtlt, bfi iii' a .ji'ii/-'/ ,' say if an )iinnbi-r .-iii iiixaliiiiiy i LHie of thei ill. a the '/" there i* n^' three, i aji iiaioent to three indiviilurds with no indication of any right on the :ict in tiio iib-i-Tice of rbo third, and with no indication that any •j -.'lull be ir;:dini;- ; whereas in anteceiient Acts between the same ovi-ifiiis were in-eirod. [ have also called your Lordships' attention everi ir n coui be held, if it could properly be held, that in a Dominion, any majority could the ease, unless all three were the !. \ .-r d. Iietweei) tli-: Pr.iviiici.-s ane .inybody would for one instant id I'arli;.;:re!i; reiiiiiied t.Jiar fordoing certain thing? a certain J bo a y.'.''// './. . ;li it if wii'dd lie an answer to an alloiration of the ;e not nie^ent, that von should be t(jiil \. ■.:■', :i '/'■■'■■/ ir„! Wa- vas U'ltifi'^d .md v.ould imt eoinr. That would not chatige the fact ■'/.'( \va.- ii.it ;'ri-::-nt >ii tli.it if the yv//'//,,.; consisted of the three, and 'ri" in file Ai-r \v;-,i,'!i >,i\.- tb:it the ipmrnni .--hall con;i,-it of less than '.'e-i.d it is entire!', material, ai 1 cannot p.)ssibly iullueuco tlic lud the ir.i'iit of yo!i! L'jrilship.- wherhfr the third was away from illness, from death, I'rum luniK'v, from ine.ipaoity of any s.trt. or fiom slieer misconduct, aiid that if by tnisconduct, .iiie of the three arbitrators ridiisos to iittond to iorm a quorum, there is none the ie.-~ the absence of the (juurum essential to do the business. Either tlie arbitrator for (juebec was or was not authorized to give in his resignation under the eireum-tancos wldeh he di'l. If he- was atithorized, c .av that we could not. I apprelieriil p Tb'ctly '. I" lime I' •It;. at un.Jer tmy < w the pn',\ .•; ■rminn v.'liat irctimstanei'-, an appointment of a new arbitrator wa- if L.iwer Cilia. 1,1. and that Lower Canada had ti righ' take on the .Midden witlulrawal "t iiits of Ltwor C/'anad,i as tlicy ploasL'il, witiiout ciH'ck or liindnuicu, and witli iliu ii'snlr riiat is lud'orc! your liordshijis. that, llioro is inteuMj di.ssiitisfactioii ami tlisc(jnt(jnt amongst tin; pi.-opli; of Lower (lauiid.i with the way in which their rii'lits have heen (.lealt with. That the ca^e i low comes before )'our Lordsh JIUS IS |>roof (d that. It does >cc\n to me. that an arhirratioii of this sort, under such eirciiiii-tanec-s, is one that oiitrht "ot to he made ilnal ajiainst theni. iMit. ItoMi'As : — May it please your l/ndsliips I am with my learned friend, Mr. JJenjandii. ami in theeireum-taiiees of a ease like this, of so much importance, I must not hesitate to trespa>s a little upon your Lordships' time. I shouhl ask your JamiI-! ip.'? in the lirst ]>luce to consider the line inte.'pititation of this i5riti.-!i .Xorth Ai therefot i!t'r;i;a;i Act. Tiiat .\t't e, vviici vonr (.\llK ( A'Ll'i.-latUh ;lii.' part:i,-- vii ihe spi.>t »;,iii m md ;!u' f;!'.-r Mi a eIotoiiied only which it mi'.'lit \i 1, !on. Xo'.V. .y 'x\v.r ■ ■.,'Se;ii:i-~, ■ -it.- ^s t:. lid .1-^0- Ilia: i.-; t [i: I'll a--;-- 'ti. thiec r.to thru ' coml I,; ii'l.- y-a,- : .:"Sl.' SL'et! inl>li ![),-. iiie as.~e ;'ii'i>;air !.j'i the ii I! i.> nei: >^ar\' t .o (;i);i -ider what was meant Mi\'i-i,>:i o ( I In iiife, ti.'c divisiiui reL'ardinc ,.-. ;i^.->i''S I cv.i'i'ii rh Mil t:l.\. 1 \ iW. Wii I iiavr to suhmit to your Lord el oi ,aifli of the sections ;is relate to the debts that whereas at the ^ 1 ; He ! :.oi : i.'tioiis I- t InV -•■inu" of il!!~ A'", tiif < Md i'i'o\ iih'i; of ('aiiada -was possessed of cer- '!!<; iiui' to I. -I 1 d.'iit-. I;, I.' ell'.'i •t (d' the Aet was to dis' ide tl lose :-. not, t.., .ilvidu tiiLiii ini'> I'.vo p.Mts. hut tti ilividefhem distinctly ■- ■.>.:;■. ■jiveii t>. f!ie i )'iniiiiioii of (/'aiiada. The ';■■ i'l-.ivi'ici,' of ( fiiiari.', and the third of tliose (i i;e oi t lart.- w;i,- uiv<'ii ■!) to tili \V!iii.:;i ? >.■.■ liar; O'i'il',' o ( ) M'V it wa.- Ill- .ue'.i'A' : :iiivl I -hoiild like to call attention to le ilei't- :i .'1 .Insets of the Old I'roviiiee of Canada. ii.' (-..pi;!..'!!; ion I -liiiil humhly submit to your which wa> rcf.>rred to — tiie division iniMi i ;tr in\i,-.!iHi \)t^ in Hi ■ I !"irl - •ctiiiii, a ipo.-i- i!i,i; iha: si.'ctioii aiit'ioi i/.ci iid that it is an entire mistake to I ;.;! ailj'nitioii between Ontario and (iuehec he dr> idiiiii' between tULiii ol luo.-!' a-siils and deltti svliieh were theirs on th -ubmit that the true leadiii:;-, uheii vour ivi.-ioii of the debts and as.sets id' OM (-aiiada -the Lordships eome to it, will be that it h ■ovinec of Canadu- iN-i tin; ti.rue parts which had oecii deliiied by the previous si-ctioiis— -a ccrtaiit : irt toi' ihe DominioM. a certain part for Ontario and a certain part for liiiebec ; id that a leprc.-entative of ea(di :nl debts wei\! accordini;ly appointed for the arbitration that was to follow. l/ii;i) Si.i.i'.ouM. : ■ Vol! say it i.- adi\i-ioii eonfeinpliled between the mniiioii ;iii d hese two Irovinci M l;. l.oMI'Ar- \ es, ni\ l.oiii Mi; M 'i;n;r 1'. ( oil ir i; ' >!■ rather anion:;- t le tlirce the liin d I I iiiil It i-. ilii; I' .■•iiiic to c!;\ idi' a lit a I, til. it- and ;ii (I withoii' idiiiL' 1 l^t'i into tl 'lolll -i^ ! Ill' IMl'l : lli:i! . oil caiiiiol ad j n.-i the debts of the Iwi !!" l|o\\- lii'l-'M ( I. ,.l i| I II 'ill ■ \v;ii''li Villi lia\ e alrt'adv i^'ot (i deal with ■o |o liii,; i liiniinioli a - well ,1- ow miicli U'o to ( )|lt.U il A' -■;■■. ^,^t ' H. r" ^. '•''^•'^TfVnMUP'Mffy^WS!flff^^y^lJ^''^P1^''^^^^^fV'f^^^1tK^^f^^ J' *^ '•- ■ "^^ m m ^* m SS " * -5 « -■', <■ 5? ,;^.' 82 N'l.w ilii; tii.st, sectinii . r tin.' Sih |),iif of thu Act disils with tlio ii.~->ot,'^. I'(!r li;\|i,- I hail iK'ttiM' talio it in tiiis way. 1 will tirst doiil witli the debts iind .-^liow your l,nid.-iii|i.> how till! di'lit.s wiTC divided into thrcu |»:irts. Tlio lOlrtli ioctioii pin- vidc« only lor tho aiimiid inti-ivst on tlio dchts. '"Thr ;innii;il iiiteiest of tiic piili- iic dcl't> of tliu s(>vci'al I'rovincci.s of Ciitiada, Nova Scotia and New HnMnwick at the I'riioii shall fortn the .second charii'e on the ('onsolidated Itcvoiuii- Fund of Canada." 'I'litMi the 1 1 I tli seetion deals with the deht-^ theinsclve.s, and it jiiu vides tha^ (.'anada. whii;li l>y the interpretation clause means tho r>0!niriion uf Canada, "■•ha!! he liahle for iho delits and liahilitie.s of each rrovince existing at the rriioti." T-!iat char<:,cs, nodonlit, the delitsof the Dominion. !>nt then whtni you ctjiiie to look hack to the ln2n--;!'.nied hy the |)iihlic I'rovinces. Tho lliUh section docs not descriho exactly which |)oriion shall ho assumed and the only instance I can give to your Lord.'liip.r i- a portion which we know and which has 1 teen very much discussed. "All a>soi.- ciunected with such portions of the puh'ic debts of each Province as are as■^um^•' mi; .[. Ml 1 the I'rov!iii'(-^ ~ W. Coi.vM.i;: AS : — "PoJ'iioii.s in 11 That oeioii^r to that 1 rovitiee.' is oiilv ilcalinu' with as.sets. bv th of the puljlic debt of each Province as are assunie>l M'N'Vi'.'e.- s r. 'i;\K --!iot t!; -sets It 1^ rovince, the new or tlie old Wi:. j; rovince.- Tliev ail" ail alonii mentioned .i.- C;,t itar; time ri.i' ami Tiot Ac: '.'V-^ed ova Sc ti;l ;;!;d New jiriit ISWlCK. >i!r r ' »;;t; \!;ni: - Tic. I'.itficulty which at prc-ent strikes mc is that at tho sup;'o-e the public debt e.xistini:' wa.s the del'' of Can.idi tlie P of Ca 'I' 'i:.\r 1, 'j'iie jo 1th .-ectioii iMtiicr .vliows what is inearil; ■'■,. \ e aiii:i;.t. iiileivst ol tin; puiili' •hi ; I) f tl 10 sevei al I rovjlii; Scotia ;i!M \e-.v r riiii-WK; iicie a re onlv three th<.'re ? Ml icrm 1 Yt. tl liice Irovinee^ are \i: T> leciallv naiiieil 1 .\i !iiav he a oiiestioii wl'ctlicr when tlu^v u^e tii waj .1- li j!i:iii'_;(.' the term and iue:ui fi .Mi Loni-i fore r! M..A-.:- I t '! I'eriiark l! ivil;C(: is tin r i;"i;.vi: :■- ' !eii!s VI. I If ord,-iii|.~ wil Ii:cJ 11 111'.'.' wii'.cU liich .-h till to th iiir. iieees: at P arilv do. V Til our ill 0.\l.- l'!.;a ..-ouM be:; would i;l.i;vii|e as betwi'i n oiie i'rovin ;i- ai-! I'eiua:'] rovinco. tliose assets. if nothimr foll'twed wlii"K ainl aiiotiiei ri lis uartieular WoUl'l '.lite .-ensihic to re.ul i a--ef.- ati! mav ibd t as >,'..va. ycotia and New nninswick, for insta to their ov,-ii .^hare of the debt and their siib.';0<]uent c!au. idle le, but. 1 think, for mv argument, m- holl y 111! material that there are certain deljts which do not bi'loiig to the Domini' but certain debts a.^-^iinuMl bv the 1 io\ itices. that althoii^li section 111 seems to u''^'^ le who (■ debt.-'' to Canada, vet it iiiontieius that certain debt;^ mav beassumed i ,-ith.-r iiidiiiL; f.'ertain norlions of the debt bv that' to 1 particular 1 rovmeo T 111', le iii^t.iiH'' oeciiis to me is that debt id' the ^loiitreal Tru«t I'lind, vvhieh under thoaw.ir I »e :i-.-iin'.eii entirely by (Ji not a.--Miiieii b\ ('ana l.oiiishi'i-" a eiec and as to win eh we are told in tlie award it w. ila. Then in ,-i.'rtioii 11:.' we have the divi.don wliicli youi ittenlijii has been so miieli callcil to that the I )ominion i.s to lie geiieri'.iy lialile III Hal n.'spect of st'c',r)(in,iiiM», and il;,,l ( hilario ami (^>iiebec eonjointly ai'i )lc I, the i'csr. 'J' leieloic ■lb !:i' debt of ihe i.](l I'l'ovlncc fif Canad ;;'iveii ;if '':ivt;l(;ulai' I'otliiim ill the Act wliicli sliews wliut 1 rovinci).*. ISru .Ia:mis W. Coi.vh.k : — There is uL'bts iiKule lip the r.2/ii'(.).()00. Mu. IJoMi'AS : -Ni). Vuiir liOrdships will fiec it is quite clear that tliore i& ■ ■'Mietliiiin- tl.M'd on fur Now nniiiswiek iind Xova Scotia. yiu Jamks W. Cor.vii.K :■— It lieiri'is hv takiiio- all ihe l]cbt^■, and ' len it riys our liability shall not exceed ('12 millions ; but if the debr of tlie old I'rovincc t f Canada was greater than 02 millions, thci-e is nothing in the Act whicli shews what partioiilar tlebts form the 02 millions. Mu. Ij'j>ri'AS : — No, my l.uid : it is apparenlly merely a part of the _2;eneral -.'home, because it is fair to point out to your I.oi'dship- that the whole was to bo I lid in t!ie first instance by Canada and the Provinces were to repay Canada tiiut sum .' I .-iibmit the olTect is tJiat the debts arc divided between the Doininioii ,uid the three Provinces, pi.Tbai)s your Lordshiiis may ^ay, of Canada, Xova S.'otia and ^»oav Prnnswick ; or the debts of Canada are. divided bot-veen the |)i.>mini'..n a'-ul the two nuw Provinces of (Jiiel.icc and Ontario, not in the lir instance to !o held by them conjointly, but siill divided in that way. whole a! :.- P :ev KAi'OCK : — I'he Domiiii'iii is to be ic-i .in.-iolc to tl 10 arc to be n,'S[iorj lie to ('anada d public for a certain amount and IV th(} iiiiiiest on it. Ml 1; -To tiie luiblic the DoiiiiniiiH I'uaiaiiti tweeii •iiiiniiii ;!ii:-elve r!, S tl tl li'S the wliole, but leiv; IS a division into two : m tiic nr.-i place, iietween tlij ihe tsvtr Provinces, except as to an V ll.ll -Ulli Oil: i..A:;Ni' s r :ie two Pi i; M u:\' : t- that may be sej>' ttely 11 N i'.lCcS. M.'. P .M; • \n'A; ■,1.N'~ i'r.A; 01 K Wliicli :;cction i'"tatn? '-.inie rothc us.=ets. and 1 submit to your l,cird>Iii])s in the. case of the .'ts it i- 'iiiirr- cioai' that ilio statute points to thi (lis i.-iMii cd" these assets into Vuvl i^ive.- ('Oitaiii el t'lusc assets tn the i )o!iiiiii"ii. and certain ()f those •I.; t'l <. >t;e':)"c and ci rl.nn ol lOM' a; sets tit Ontari iiii iloiiiH. Ill Some cases ins; theuj to (Quebec and Ontario cnii jointly and in si>me casi.'.:. i;'ivin>; them ti ^1.;, ! )(.'(• il 0!.tari(.i sei'a'aolv, but. 1 unt ii'i'stand dividiiiu' them in to tl irce ivts 111 tnat \\ay. 811: r>Al;.Nl^ 1*1 ACOCK .^lu. IViMCA- :- 1 will I'M to that section in t :--Whicli clause yives them >e[>:ir,itely ? come to that in a nioinent. le u rder in whicli it seiiiis tn 11 ■ liuiiM like to call atten- le to eeiiie. In the first ice, the lOTth section vests in the Dominion "al :oclordship sees that that is not a •I'.ar vestiuiijof all stocks, cash, banlier.s' balances and securities, so that it could be •aid tiiero was no ditliculty or that nothinii; remains for adjiistnient, but it is the ■i.-tin_i>' of all such stocks,c.isli,banker.s" lialances and securities, excepting a certain :"irtion which under later sections it is said are not to c'o to the Dominion, leaviny:, 1 ciiuiso, the t"iins jierfeclly general, with no tlelmitin!\ ol wh U shall be included lie toi m '•.,.>nt.- Wdiild jdiint ol no doiiltt as lo wiiat were In :ii\e nil iveiiieiils mi;dit u-iveii-eto a l' Tea t 111 an \ oiiestion. "-■.■.*)•'.«-.-.■■<-..■•' ■.■•■' .••■.■•■ • .• -."'..' -' ■ - ■ ■ -V '■ , , <^ • '^■Ti'w.d^rfqtwi^fn^""! >l ill p If rate k1 >i. I • _^ » C ^"^ *■ :& ■*■ 5 3* ' Wi II n t ' •! to \v!ictiu-i' ;i p.'iiTictilar ninrtrr Inin;'-! | as ^!ii' iiiiitli lii'a'hii I IMll .il' ti ic la ki' nil u, "M |in\ .''iR'nt-. y o 1-^ I i!ai\ KiM'i-, "l I'lii' l.cii-. I,-li!|i-; call well iiiiiiirstaiiil that L'l'avi' (|iU'stiniis iiiiu'lit lit' lai-cii a.' In >.\ licllicr a inail wa- a iiiililai i' r'^ail >tv iiof. 'riiuii llic hull licadini:'. "Ai iiMiitio. l);!!! Slii'.l.-.Miliiarv ('lotliin- ami ^[lllllti^tl.- III War am! I.aml^ si't npart Im| ( m i.iia! I'liliji.' riirpOM's." Siinlv lami- ^et aiiait IkP gi'tH.-ral I'uMic |)iii'|i'i.-r i- lit a ii'iii--t iiidciinih' i!i\-('ii|itiiiii, ami. ac(.'iir(liii;^ t,) tli:it (lpi;cii|itiiin. tlio>C' \ ai imi^ wml;- ami |)in|u'iry m;? ol' tliu tuta! po. -is.-r-ij Iiv (.'aiiaila f'ui nu'ilv is to 1h' uiMii Iri thi- -..fw I ).iiiiiMii'ii nl' ( 'aiiaila. TliCit wlitMi Villi cine in claii-i: 1'".'. vmi 14c; c.i'itaiu lliin^s wiiicli i\v.\ votial HI tlie *l.•llalv.^(! I'riivinc'i'-, aiisl tin:!' IMIi -IH' Ilii i|iii'.-ri(iii iioit:. ahont wliiob Proviti- fes are meant- tliu old i'.'' tiic now. Iiccaii-c iIh v arc iiK'ntioiicil liy iiuiii All lands, iiiiiK'-, iiiitifrals aiiil rnvaitirs lu'luiiul'iji' to the si\oim1 I'rovincis of Canada, Nnva Scotia and New liiiiii-wii.'k at tlu; I nimi. ami all -iini,- then dii(! 01 payaltle tor .siicli 1 Ian',-. in'iiL's. nniMTal- or rnx a'rii'> sli;ill lu'lnip^ in the ^(;\'( rai l.'i'O'* JlU'O: of Onta;!''. <, sitnatf ..r i-r- < >ntario -.iX' ' • Jin'iii.'C— ••>'.' .'tliiT fliai: tli L )H'!:miIi,- lands. ! \ ;!;,' la li Xi'W iJninswick, in whir-li tlu; same Mv la.l Iii'lii t'(in;iiin']\'. Th arc ise siiiriti' in i,.l I -a iIILl n I >' ;i'l i , use .-iniaii' in x-r ti.i any t'-a- ..r;!ii. f't'.vi:.- ','1 Si ' 1'. ■ i\\: ■;i.!a-! ,1!- 1;. i' ; 1 : 'Jiu;l)ie .111.- to Ijclutii.'; tu .\i-'iiii: il. ii'~]i ri tlii'ifot' and to iuiv inti'ri.':-t *!i(' .- mil." '■ iiiiM:' tn vay il wa ; til lit' till! dnty (if llif . ;'ji!il -'■.■■linii Im ii'wi' ;i ? iifcilicatioii iit' tlir.-i- fi! sa\ nn'ci-'iv \liat ilietmaii ad pi.-tmonr 11, cans. '■:.' sivli ;\- ir-' I, 1 1 !•!!!■!> a! --■:■.' .iii'i •• di'. !-i'iii am! ad jll^l iiUMit." . i\ '■■ I 1 1;!-'-.' I \; M I '1 i\iin'.'- ' !] i;.i -.• 1 -VM riM\'!i.a ■.. •~ii : in ; In.' 1 'oniinion, »'\'a'iM i .'j!'; \d in :■•-:: .i.i 1. ''^ ^.:!i ih -ii' dm \' wmii i if.' to di'lliir and imiit, a ^ ; u'.r ;,ii-i .---.r' . "'!■• "., ';.•!!., !'.!|.U iii'Miiii'md in .--(.'in < lull' -i. "■ ■ .. :;;•. i; : - V ■ , V'';,k ■:,' vvnrds " 'liN i-in:. :ind a'ljn.itincnt " arc ap' :vis'.is iv ;!-.,' :' 'i' *;,ai pi.; .■■ Mi:. !!■ •'•■■.■.- :■ - 1 ^l,. u'.'l lia'. !■ ■hiiKulit --d,;!!!' \'":ii- :■.}■■.■ very ^ctu'ral, " .Il-I':-. t-icdiis, li,d>; ■::"-. p!'i>pi:-) ; '••- .:'i'i Sii: JL. •;-:;: i', 1 ■. ,,i i; :; ..- 1 Mic. j^.^;:.^■:-. N',r , - i-'i- Sii; il'.!;:.:ri i ', ( '. .M.: . •; ; '•'i'iii' a-.-"!-^ ni I ' p;..'; I'aiia'iaand (.nwrr (Jaiiada." Mk. 1 'I'^Mi'.',- : \'.'!:'ii 1 I'l'MiL' !" liial .-I'l'i.iii, i am ■.;i)in:r to S!iv liiat tli-' wii:d>au .'i ■!;■ "'I,. •'■■■.'.■-! ;;',!:! 'n ;.!i.i-,v rlial i'lip'-i and l.'iwi :• (.'anad.i d.i '.lot iiu'aii i ..■r\',i ..1: I Jr.. !r, ■• ;.i d (111', rm. j,oi;!i s, i.f. ..'CM : ^ i>i. • 1 \ ii '- iii-iw('('!i ()ntai;ii and (.|iu'1h.''' and tlic JJnininii.in. Mi;. I'liMrA.- :- • I .••.■i\ ihsv^icn ilm-i' ilircc p..ii;li'.-i ini'niinjir'il at rlin end "i that section. w1io.-l' iiaiiiaim'nts inii-t Ik: siiinimniod to i;i\e consent hetore tin' iirliitra.tioii can 'm licld Tlc'v a'c 11. ii mcr" parties appninriny- lil:c The lioNv.'rmM- (ienoral niirur ajipoint an nmpirc, Icil liicx arc tjiice p;'i1;c;i wiio,-c parliaincii!-- irc simunoncd to a— cut ro inwim 111 I II "I 'I iiiiniii;.'' their 1 i:;iits, and tlie pci'.- 'lipiiintei llc'li In d!\ me aie! ;i'l |n.-t, li.-if till- lie :iei|ir.- .if Unl.ilii iiid Qiiciiec, lull the dc'r.- and c; ii;- ol u iiat was i'.\pi-es.-ly deiiiu''! so as to .H" that wlnit i.- nieaM i.- tin- ni'l I'l'ov iiac ol I'anada, and ni.r the new I pper :<:<< Lower { r V anaii.i. II i.-e nan;.' ■ arc ii>e. lhi'oi.'.:!ioii! till.- .\'-t v.-it!i t.ie nH.-t fWi till III Act t ■tiiiction, ami t! lev ar. inch \\\'\i- lei! ii\ I ill' piT.'oii wiio dr"W l! o lie -;t!iicl iioiii 1 M'laMi'aii.! i i;]; .i..,', fii.'ii in the Kl'^ih se.'tion he ni:i' a spi'cial pio\ I that lal.c I,- 111.; r,. in\ dn i n jie|- ,:l|.| 1. 11 ncl a-.-ets iiciie (." il!:'.';;i ov V .'I. 'a < »i ii;t III! i.i' ill 1 :!",il l.'i\', ■r C oiaila, I' li.n-i I'D'.' Ill IliV si': .1 ( Ml: al|\ iM lie ijil lie:- ' 11!',: ■ ;:e ihii li w-i,. il 11 ,; tie- :i-. well :i- 1 1 1 the 1 1 IMchni" lliin:',- " '1 o\ ilKM-. '■"^»'^'*V5S»?»?«i«r'J!'^3(|W?iT*«' ... ..-'^1 .■r.- m ■ym^ ;M;f»^/t*y.1 f :§ S !> * :~* « 5 5* • ^ — > I ll II. gh f ■ /*'»«.j jgl^ >f^^ ^. .^iSit^,^^^.^.::^mii:tL.,-.\r .^X^.;iit..:c.;.i!j,iM^. ,^«^.i-.M«^s\iai8i.V «ifei.^g:a s.s Sii; AfnM Ai.i K Iv Smiiii : - Did anyiin.lv over siiLruv.-r. tliin to tlui arbitrators? Ml'.. lloMi' \^^ :-— My !iii>>ri' to thai is two I'ulil. In the tiR-t placi: I have i.it the sli^iho-t iilca ot uh u was siii£i>( -ted to the arl)itrat<>r,s. Sii; MoNr.M.ri: Iv Smihi . -Mi' (Jiay treats hiiii-i'lf tIiroiii;'Iio\it as filliii^ tlic j)'sitioIl of llflipili'. Mi:. I'.nNti'A- : - 1 shoiiM suiimit \oiii' r,or(lshi|)> umihl iml ttiiiik ho is tlio ■ oiK'hi.-ive ])«'i.-oii to iiiti'r|iiit a iiriti.sh Aft of I'ailiaiiM'iit, hut tin: (iovci iiiiioiit of •■'a:iaiia di-l not treat liini so. Tnu (iovcrnmojit of ('aiiada in tiuiir patent to him xjticssK saiil lie was ti-* l)e an arltitrator for them and not an umpire hetweeii tlio ■tiier two. The wordim; of tlio patent (i.xpressly i,'i\'es to luiii theaiitliority toaet '.'<>]' tliem. liOiMi Si:i.i;oKxr. :— 'riu'h do I. understand your ari;iiineiil. to he this, that under he 1 1'jiid s'/iji ii>!i the ariiit la nis are lioiind tostaleoii the faeo of thoiriiward what ii'iits were t.j he a>-iiiiied hy the I )oiiiiiilnii aiid wha! assets wore to holonij to the i 'olliilli.»!i. .Ml. r"i-,!;; \' :-- The in.iH' .liieet uf my ai;;iimeiif is this. If I am correct in ■ iv i^tatomeur riiat thi- i,-. in aili'M aii.>n Iwtweeii thi- lliree, then f apprehend that • i~ p.; ti'or^v '.'It ar fh.it t;i.'!'i' 'im-t lie iiiiaiiimity in order for the arI)iti'ator3 to liiaki.'' i: u'OMil avi'.rd. and r!i ,i a iin,oritv uoidi] not govern. TiiK I. '.'.i '.'li.wi I! I 'i; :- i d'l Mill think Mr. Ilenj.iniiu coiitonilod tliis. .Mi; r.''\:r.\s !--Ve-, iii\ lord, with ail respect, lie did. Sii; U ':.'.i;i 1'. ''iii.i.n:L: 1 did leit tinderst.iiid him so for me. l..)!.n S: t.i; ijN ■; :— II., ini^ one meaniiiu- on the word.s Upper and Lower i':i'ia«!;i. a!:i ■.i-iiid u- to lioli.l that a divi-ioii mms eonteiojilateil, not of e.vistiiii; I -hts ai','1 .■■.■.-.■■-. I lilt oi' -.vhar imI heen d.'hts and a.»ots of former I'roviiicc^s. ^ii: IJi.'.n;! I', (.nr i i: r: :- I I.e never ^u^'|;e>ted that there was u third party .1 thi' :iri,;rr./!ii! '. Ml;. lii.V! i.-:- Jt ,v;,sh;- \ iew when he iir^t went llirounji the statute. With .•|Ui';f. i.i\ J-.irls. i have _fiir up this ease with .Mr. I!en jamin, and Ml. nenjaniiii i i;i ■.■i'i;-irc.if!.'ii e.\p>e-~iy ai-rred tlrit we >hoiiM ;U'v:iie that. It may not e M'li'.''-: \'iii!' l/i:-.Uiiijis, iiiii! I \\ :i.> cuii-eioiis ir did nor strike your .Lordships, ;i!i-i.' i; c'::!e ,\'lieii ynwr !,iiriMiiii> h.id imthad tiu; case widl 0[H;ned to }ou, and !■ [."'lisl ips wore not awaiv of thi' elTeet of what he was nrn'iiiny;; i)ut thai mv lu'd truiid ilid arii'Ue and put th'ir point, my learned jniiior perfectly ajrrees ■ {■<■■.[ ■ Ill ■.in ■> ilh I ip.U' ; in ■litra I Kl'dsllip.-. Loi;i) Sioi.i'.oKNi: :-- Vou leeall to my mind an argument that I think we did iiear from ^Ir. I'enjumin, dilh nt from what you arc preseiitiu{f,that the Province ■vas not entirely disinterested the matter heeanse it had an interest in tlie pro- |icr adjii-tmeiit. between Onlaiin and <^iu'bec, that ar^'imuint lie did ii.'^c. Siij !ioi;ia,i ]'. (.'oi.r.im; : - Vour ai'L'Ument is that they totally misunderstood iieu' rnnr'tioii- .-iiid in'ver h.id any eoiiceptinn (d' tin' real nature of their functions ,1(1 any eoiu'eptimi (d' tho real nature of their functions -Thai i- my present arijiimenl. C.'oi.i.ii i; : I did no! imdeistaml Mr. r.enjamin too'o«o far a ;, I1,im;'.\>: 1 endei-inod him to ii'n as i'ar a.~ that In^, did what 1 was pro ociuwiicii 1 ii.id pir.-eiil(!d ;!ii .ii'^iiineiit, n.imely, assnmiiiL', we are wron^ (> ijideavoiir to -li'iu' your I .■ini.-hip:-. a- I am atraiil 1 iiiii.--l endea\<,>ur ti ,..t I' (1,; .'.,..,. I : 1 1 f I :,.! H..,i I i .]■ dutli'. Mi;. lloMI \ Sii; IJm:!!,; • at. ?.l i: •i.-iii;.; :i ihi- t ihat i'\eii apart from thi- <|nestioii iipmi the other piiiiil-, that have been ai ''i|l/'';:,i P m\. mi m m m 4r, i i W^-' yum i-rn'^i^Sr^f^W^p^' JTJ!|!{K^^!W1^^?i«PW?f r«w»;' t s. ;<; f f ^. 1 ' i I ] 5j c -5 «. ^ 1 I V ^?;; ►•n* Sfi this; i.-i not an iiwaid tlnif oiui lio siishiiin'il. 1 dn wiihmit to your l^ui'clsliips that my learned frioml did urgiio it, i)ur I do Iii)|ic. even if my learned friend did not iirf^uo it, tliat I may ;isk your Lordsliip.s to take ilie matter into coiisidonition. Thk l.oiii) (ynANei;i,[,oi: :--I did n^.t mean to say you weie oxchidcd, but of course wo must hoar in mind that that was not a pnint considered as we under- stood by your leader as a point in this case. MiJ J^>oMi'AS : — 1 am sorry yt)ur Loid^liip sliould think that. 8iu P>AK.Nr.s FicACocK : - His argument was that they were to appoint a third arbitrator and not an umpire, and that nn awanl could be made except by tiie three, but he does not say it was necessaiy to decide as to all matters between the tliree. AIk. 1!(«mi'as: — I may have misunderstood Irow strongly he intended to press it, Thk Lukii C'iian('ki,i,i.»i: : -We must interi'upt you here. {Ailjiin ni'tl lit y7iitrsi/'ii/, MiircJi 7M.) IIH^«r»>>c .^K%riffffffi ^atm m> M t \ \ yfmW^f" i ; ii-?--«^; ' y iw w r ,T«iaf»»^w»yi |« ^j|fw r.'y i p< M ' f > '^ ■yj»»y«uJty;wfy»^'"W ;^"*..,i ■ % I < a: - *> ■»• " ^iw * "S 2 • }• j; fh M !:i--t- \V( 1 III I IS c riiirli(;i '[llnnitl X tilt; r.i, uM Vy, Mull (if iiiji'Iit ; |"Tfif: irlltiuli Aliici'ic I'C liivi \iili re li(!ill;ir i hi) <:<>\-i ■viso tli' ST m ;? U' ' JCDICIAL COMMITTHK OK TllK PKIVY COITNCII. ('(ii.Mii. CiiAMitii;, \Viirii:iiAi.[,, Tlitirsib}-, MarL'h 7tli, 187S. Pftsent- TiiL- Loud ( 'ii.wn.i.i.oi;, TlIK Dl KK liF RlCllMONI) AND GoUDON', Siu .Iamks W. (Joi,vn,i:, LoiU) Si:i.iio);m-, Sii{ I'akni.s Pkacock, 8ri; MnNiAi,!.'!'; E. 8miiii, Sii; Kuiw.in- P. Com,ii:k. m m mm wm IN THE MATTKR OF TlIK AKPJTPvATlON A^NL) AWAHD TIIK PllOVINCKS OK OXTAIilO AM) <,)rK:iK('. !SIh. MoMrA>: Ma\ it |i|.m-.c vonr l.di'Miiji- : Wlicii \oui' I.niu -liips rose !:i^t wceic I w;'- ;i>kiiiii; yniir uttfiitinii tu the P>!'i;i.-l! Nuvrli Amoiic;!!! Act, iuul wliilc 1 lii.'jie i .--liall iint I'diuvf the wnrds i.f ilic |,.pi,| ('!i;iiii.-tll(ii thai I am por- !iii|i? currviiif: tlie iiitrrpn-tatiMH I'atlier '"iiitlicr than my Icariidl Icadm- ilid. and linvin;;; ru) (lc;-iie lo do that. I iiiii>t a>k- vuiii' Kmil^hips' atrentii'ii tn one or two I'lii'tlier rL'rriarI\> upon the Act ln'l'nif l^^oiDthr gi'iuial ipic-tiuti <>( wliat is iho ijimnim iiet'f.-saiy in a ca^o of thi- kind. Now, my J^.^rds, I did not intend to ar^nc.and 1 ihi not tliink- it is at all nrocs.>ai'y for my ])nrpo.-i; to ai^'uc that the meaning' of that 14!;^nd .■'(.•ctioii is that ih(! (yonit tiioii' (.•on?titiit('d na?- honnd to divide evciy asa't atnl cveiy doht of tlio uhl Province o( (/i\iKuhi. What I snhmit to your Lord,>^hips is the true iiitcrprota- lion of that x'ctioti is that it \va> a ( oiir! CMiistitnted to hettki snch dispntrs as iiinlit arise in tiio division and ad jiiftiMcnt of the debts, (/rcdits, iia!>ilitlcvx, nio pi'rties and as.-ets of I'pper Oanada and LoW'r ("anada. I eali voni' Koidsldps at- u'litloii to the fact tliat ihi' earlier seeti'iii-, tilt' Divi.-ioii No S of tlu^ llriti.-h North Aiiiorieaii Act had distiiidly pro\ ided tii't tin (K'lil- .iiid asset.- (>( Canada sliouid I'C divided liefv/een tiie h-iininion ami Ontario ; nd 'Juebee. ^'^■ur l.ordshijis \yl\l remem!).'r, and f ihinli 1 had not eallnl \onr l.'ird>hip>' .tlieniion !o that pai-- licnlar section, tiiat tiie 117ih -e<.'lion i.- a M'ction which winds ii|i \<\ -ayiiii:, tleii i!uj sf'vcial Provinces .-liall retain all tiieir rc.-pe(!live pidili" tn'opiTty not other- ■viso disponed of in ihi- Acl, snlijecl (,o ihe ji;;lit (d' ('anada, lliat is the Puminion, ists: ' ! ■• ■ I. r I *•*» «jf ~» .»»!l«ift^'»-*«.;5i<|»f-'pr*«^ .-.■.A «x"' ;• :fr-'-. jfV,\. ;t' .J *• * -1 •(i '1 V ^ . n H i* ) iH ■^*^ ' ss umr ;.iiy liii'N (•!' piihiir piMiMTh' ivi jHii't"! for ('■.rtili',';itiuii.> or for tlio i.le- ■iiif 111 '111 tin; coiiiitrv. Voiir I.Mril.4iii)S >i.'.; ih;it siihjc :l to tliatoiio si'clioii (■.wvy ■ri\iii)lij |;riii'iiuc, or il is i;iveii to < )iir:irio, ,r it is i;ive'ii to t^)iir- lii'i- unii < )iir:irio joiiitlj. Tlu-ru is no provi.-ioii in tlio Act roiiuiriiii;' the joint |)i'o|iL'i i_v o|' < Jiii;l)cc ;in(l Ontai io lo lu' l I 17 w.tc iir.-.t i\:a(!, ^l^^•i_v tlio-f two >:i('tiuns caniiut. In- Mitliin till' |/rc-i.nt ariiitiation, lu'ciansi' it i-xprci-slv savs 'liat tliev sliiili liu iit'jii I on juintly hy tlio now l'iu\ iiu-i-, and as I'ar as word.- l;u it would soein to say that they an.' ii"l to he dividctl. When we tuiii to the l-i'Jnd sei'tioii J snhinit it is not a :-ection which cspressly i- intended to df;e!are anl enaet in teiins that the whole pioi.'jrty jii.ti ly hel(;nuin:j to I'luier (,'aiiada ai il J>ower (.'atiada siiall necessarily hr iield in .-eveiilty. The ditKculty, a.- I snhmit, is to tiiv;- a fair interpi'etatioii to the li'Jrid ;-'. crl'jii conihined with the lloth >eetio!i. 11 the l-|-ind sec-tion meant that the |iri;pirty of Lower and l.'p|H,'r Canada is to he nePessarils divided aii'l ilividt.'d hy t!ii- ui-'icess hctween the new Provinces if Ontario and (Jui'licc, whicli ill .-ri/.e c-rr'-j ..'M.l'.d to rlii' old Pi'ovincrs (,f ('pjii/r ^'anada and Lower Canada, tlii.-n 1 ..|'j.N :■.;;'. if Would I'v .•;. II tli;i! t!u' l!.';i!i -cerioii e\n (1: ■ '■.■.'['. 'n.'.: :: ;- ..'i-'f he:' intcrp.'' la'io!, t:;,i' iho Mtind sertioii coi i; !: r tlie jii;; ;■" ■ n'' >i tf'ini: .I'lV d'-pu '■■• t!i,,t nie.dit ari.-.e in thr ,'.-"in.n"i, "! 1 ...■ ■! ■ill.-, rri.'d:' and 'i.ii.'ii.lie- aiii jiiopi'.'iie.-' and .... .... . . . d'\''d J ti.i' I'!' I ■'.•■■!'■,,: ■ 1 ~,^ d, i'l'M \ ■'■j,.,; ji r • . Li the caiiy iiii ;•: liifpiit'- aim diili.'ii!' i"- ■ to r!"- ■■\-\ t!io-a; riu'hts iiiiL;iii l.iii; di.;puii' niiuiit have arisen ■tUi.Ti! ' J'liM:-' and ' tntai III .iii'l ill.- i 'oniiniun "f ( 'a'l.i'la .i.> to what wa~ l!i' it d'l'.* alio\e the .->uin of >aj-j,."i(in.iii m, | i;itlier ^atlu-'r froinihc ainoiiiii A.' I li' Mil- ( iiiaiiian I liament. at pa;;e .i-S of the lo cmd, i lli.ir t! 'Ill ii .I'l |i;-: iiiLi tiie ,.iiioi;nl ^ p ivaii.e i n rrsn.'i.-t oi ihc ilcii t Wii- an .\<'t of ! 'ar- ts of ihe I'roviiic ir rill- a!ii' ii liv which Ihi- total deht 'liu exrei'd i>J nrdlions was settled \<\ 'Uiveni'-nl la 1 >\ ci n llii' 1 I'li'i iie'c- and I II'' I'oiiiinion and no oiio.-tion a.'o-i- n ,1 .10! in-' r .cti.i' Si.i.i."i;M. I t tin ■ f III,- ,\i-t :,l ^ 1 lial tin u hole oj lliat \\: mill d l.iN till- U"iii:iiiiiii. Ml I'MiMcia' loll oi (In- rro'.ini'i.' .Mi; I; Vr , 111 U- ill hi w 1-- a.-.'lloii d 11 mil I ne iieo ts of the 1.11 I 1 1 1. 1 ! ' ■I \'. II Mirlra-e . \!1 W. (' C \ !l 1 niinii'ii a--nni r.-J nil lions of ih'jit in .lid II lit IIU' I M'l I'll 'I'al I to I II' aiii'iii'tio'ii' o', IMi- all nil! ■II in:'. \ 111- I lOir ' iiiM i-,,i.ai I h.' nia li'iials h II I III., ■■ i"|i \i" !i-ll v> iiliin lln li mi: II ail. \^ii'w.-i,H»<»ii»7»i>«,-..-Ti»,(»i»j,''lfi4fi-»---i»i<' - ■■ »- . ,;,f^^mf'sii-^ } ft p^ f p i tf Sf»m* •■ » k l'' Vi ft \\ -lllisvi 5,1 :«e 13' •5 ». 1-^ 'f t ''- «»/- 1. .*. ., '■■ IP* 1 1, j»*»»ri ' *»^ >*i5v',--« 'J.i«.iwv..'v, ymff-WV.'Vx-.-s-'-^rts^i^fum.-'A.f^' '-;;.T>9g|||jl>)J]!.f||j.j.ag|iy)lllfW'pli'ii l.,'*^' "f^Kf .%•«.-*'»- •*«ff»«*'^*»flni»f^v •2 •». i.^ -5 fc 1)0 coiisfitutiiii; tlio fliivc, (Mcli for tin; pruKHtiuii of tin; propt'iLy \vlii(!li lio was ;i]) pointed to i(;[>r(v-i'iit; tli;ir tiiiit i^^ car. :eil out by tlic patent wliicli Cfjiialiy a[i))oiriti"i an arhitratnr .m liclialf nl' the Duniininn tu rupiuscnt tlio Donuiiitin I.cnislaturo h_v till' .iwarl wliicli (IcaN witli the rinlitsot" the Duininiuti of (Jaiuida as well aa witii tlie ri^lit^ of t!ie twn paitiis 'I'liK l-oKo (.'iiANi 1.1 i.oi; :- l)nes your ar^niiierit gn to titib that tlio-o tlirco piTSi'ti- inn.-t in; nnaniniou.s '. .Mi:. Hu.Mi'As : — Ve.s. 'I'm; LoKi) Cii.vNi Ki.r.iiK Is there any aiitlioritv for tliat^ Mi:. I>omi'.\s : — I eall yonr l.onlship.-t' attention shortly to the ar<;iiriiciit that whenever three pcrsoirs are appointeil to do a work tiiey inii.-t he uiianiiiioii.s except ill e.\c('pted cireiuiistanco^ hy the law of Eiij^land. There are certain cxceptimit; in \vhii;li they need not he unaniiuoii.s, hut tliu ij;eiieral rule is that they must he uriaiiiino'i.-. I ."ubmit that where the?o three perauns repre.'^ent dis^tinct interests, tliey inii.-t be unaiiiinou:? Where there are tw<.> persons ropresentinir two parties and a thir 1 party repre-^vnts an nni]»ire, then it may he said to be a i)reeiiinj)tion that it w;i- infoivled tiiar t!i" ;ni piiu >liiiuld by his vote be siitrujient to give eO'ecl to it; but v\-!:ore there aierlrree [>a'iic.s repii'~entint;' three interests Ihere i submit the infero!;-': i» tiia* each luliitiMtnr wa- inteinled to proteiil the iiitei'ests of liisown pafv ,■!;:■■ t.;k;' i' wi;.- ii"* inffii'ltd thai any niie party should be overridden by the otlier rv:.j. 'I'm: l.'.'!:i' C!i.\r.':.r.i.Mi: : -'J"!ie .VrL oi rai'liainjiit has not used the word nmpii'c !.'.■ 1. ..- i!.-ed rii" u.-iil aibitratur. The <]U('Stion is wdiethor that meant any*';':'.^- v::'.'rv rliauthi.-. t!:;:; tl..' di\ i.-iiiii and adjustment of the-e debts, wl at- -1; •u'id !i" I..'.. .A'! \' thrve per^Mins, .-h'luld li" settled by three pel' ■ 1".- rliar III'.- '. ]\ri> tlie\ tn du it f M;.. I' ■..: \.- :- --^'i.;';' ■-::!.: 1 e;;:i i,i;i'yyoiir j.urd>l!ip.> with ine to the extent id' !^- '■' '.: ^ 'iii'-e pel'--'!-. I ,:iii pupaied t(.i >lio\v your L<>[',!ships, on the clearest authi';';'y, riiat liat v-'^tM ;:'.■•. --;nily ix'.juire the t!;iee [lorsuiis and would I'ccpiin/, 1 subiii'T. r/i.-'r 'i'. lUiiniry ..■■.><".i' in the case of eei'taiii public trusts of wdii(di J sliouid -!;'!:.!!!■ tid- is n..r ■,).,_.. What I v/as afraid your .Lordsh'p.-i were inclined til hold w.,.- !;'■; riiiit t'l;- •.;•;, .~ .i i;ii'!H' ('ourt appiiinted by thiei- pi'r.-.jns, but tha' this Vw:- a t'o'iii'i ap|i'.)ii:'i"l !'i.r ihe divisiiin between the two i*''t;vinees. Ti!!. I.. i:i> CiiA.NcM i.oi; ; It ;,- not I'.dled a Court. Wliv should we call it a CoUlt. ;r i> U'lt iV'^'C'J ;; ( 'oiM'i b V the Act oi' J*ai'liaineitt. Mi: \r..y< ■i do ti'jf \\] to C;:!l had tliro'.vii il a ("oiirc. 1 thoUL;iit your Lordshi] t;!at we ii,ii>r. no; rn.it this as ;;ii;!i • A pre.-tiit I lather di'imir to iniportiuif a techniea! ii.\\oi:i.r.oi; : At rbirration " \'.'h:idi a" once ra!se.> m ones mind the idea that c er- tain technical rules wliieli mh have e.-tabli.-hed ar- to our arbitrations between |iartie.~ are to be applied to t::is. .Mi ji,A[r - It i- t, I a vi <\i that that I used the word which I thou'^lit wi ii'irer. the word " ("ourt. I Ml or;!' ^Kf.iioK.vi; !o\ti'A- : - T lat intioduec- aiiolher technical term. le teiin :ir as am con ocean •' i>, lh,i' tiatioh le aiithoi'itie:- I ^hali cite to vour Lorch cerued is perfectly iiumatcr lai ii[)s will ,>iiow, ami my contention are Hot relyiri::' iiojii any ipic-^tioii wh'cli is at all peculiar [ o an ■l:0 ( hAMI I , i; ;.;;d (' to Suiipo.-iiin I h'c Act (d rarliaint;nt had ?aid it sha!: 1 an !■ ly hoA- tho d.'bt>, rrediH, li. :id :id M.-.!cd. 'bilitics and assets of [' Ml i;iii lA'c: V ; ;. . u' ••I'llrv , o.-eiic I'l ' H ■11 I bold li.:.\ c -aid that without oven idiiijr .lUlhoritM 11 lo How wiijioiil i;o'nn- aL>,'aiii:-i lie Ia\'' (d ahc." 'id ld| hc!'. w '■■- O' ■>. roil Id iioi hold ;li:.'l a ilecidon by A a iidoq decision. •■'^■-i.imf '■»fl(p\'TH:-¥«'-Wt!ro*-"Mr»VI»»-rs'^ -■?•,; '!ir>!r.,TJ»s.J»c;-" - ■.-^(^»U'!K^^■•.;•.•■:^J,3Hr^»S(«l.f«»VP^■■«J•9KJ«^<^^ ggiHiliI ii" i~i "iT'^iiiMW I . ' «■ •i.iSJS I: 1^ III 01 TlIK LuUI) ClIANCKl.l.Dk 'I'llilt were speakiii;;- ;it. presoiit of uii:iiiiiiiity is ;i (lilliiviit nliscrvation. I tlmiight you Mk. 1 •d.MI'AS The point I sliiill most stroii:;lv iii'l;o i.> tliat tlic tliroo must lie present. Tin; T>oi:i> CiiAmr.i.i.OK : If yon eaii slmu' they iiuist !)t; unanimous it is not nc(;es.-iar\ to <;onsicier their presence beciuiso they cannot l>e nnaninioiLS unless they iwe present. Mil. Tjomi'as : — I will state very shortly to your I,onIship what my contention is, and I have tho.iuthorities here. My contention in the tiist ])lac(! is that whetJier ».r nut tliey itiiist ho unanimous dopends njion whetlier this is a iiody appointed to e.xcutc a puiilic trust, by which I understand a body ajipointed to control otlujrij on behalf of the governing- body, and not a body merely to settle disputes between the two individuals, howovcv important or however high may be the nature of the individnab. Then my contention is that whethei' or not this was a public or u private matti.!', whether therefore they were or were not reijuircd to be unr nimoiis in all cases, it is required that they shoidd be all pi'esent together and that there is 11) autliority in T'liglish Law or in liomari Law or any law, as far as I can find, except tlif Caiiuii Law which seems to have made; an exception, there is no au- thority, for snying that where a power is given to a certain uumbcr to be exercised by fhetn vi'.i'ther they need or need not be unanimous that it can be e.xercised by auy less niMiiiier and 1 sliail cite to your Loidshi)):- aiitlioritics of all .sorts and kinds of in r.-oiis to whom powers had been given, in which it has been held that Iht; |);v>L'.! •;■ nf the whole was necessary to constitut'' a tjuorinn. The question of wiiat is a <;:ii.rnin is, I submit, a wliully di-tinct ((nestion Trom the questioji whether •>r not t!:;'.' ;!;orum mu-t lie unanimous and the fact that when yoii have the quorum t'l.s:- rliere ne;' 1 n"t I e unainniuus, dues nut touch the question whether m- not fh-. '•■•.nld be (Miiii. Then 1 sliall have to nu'ct the possilde argu- ni( nt tliuc siijtp.j-iing th'j tiirce aie a qiioiaim and le.-- than three cannot act, if one ■if then: wiltnily stays away tn-it is equivalent fu his |>rcscMice. I shall .shew to VMur i,nrU-:!!;iK that that iia- nut been ludd in any ca.-c. except in the ca=e of the ration L;iw. i.>,e:' to be siillicicnt, and 1 hupr. to shew yuiir I.urilships that reasuu as well :i.-- ii.'.v would riMidi'-r such staying away nut I'quivalcnt to prcseiu-o in the |i!esi-nt c,i-t?. 1 will i'...r laboiii- longer the Act of I'arlianuMit, but will oidy jnsi in passing eall \i>\u- ]. H'lships' attention to tliis, that the award dues itself in live or si.v of its term:^ ilea! ui'h the juvipi'i'ty and rights ol (Janada, the huminion, as well as the property and rights of the dill'erent Provinces ; foi' cxanqde, the Tth, Sth, 9:li and loth sections of the award, 1 think, deal with the prupcrty which by the very terms of the Act and b_\ the terms of the awani are vested in Canada. My co tentio!! that 'he .\ct intenih.Ml the lights of all thtce ]iaities to be dealt with is cunlirmed by the award, which, ahhongli the ])artl(ular questions left to the arbitrators seo;!i t(j have betMi qncstiuns for dividing assets ;md property biitween (Quebec and Ontario, necessarily touch upon the rights of ( ';inada. For exam|>le, the Act of I'arliament, as your Lordslsip remembers, vests exi)re.ssly all se(-urities lor Uioney in the J )ominion. Accordingly, the awaiil itself treats the S.5S,()00 •vhich are invested in the (Quebec Tnrtipike Trn.-I as being the piojuTty of the nonunion ot Canada ; the sti. says the icsidiie ol the said (Joinniun School i-'niid ■hall continue to be hehl bv the Dominion of Canada. Loi;i' Si:i,!:oi;n';: : -'I'lie Tth auil the I'Mii -.veie .-nb jeet tomuchrcmaik by yonr lis. learni'il lea.der. ainl lae bearinu iiiion them do not seeni to lie stated to Mi;. i'.oMi'A- : 'i^he l.oi;!i Si I i!(ii:.\i: : I filial i^t.'iinte ;ind savs it '■ 'Mb and '.ii li are ; iiiqil\ an ■ ee no <«^ '«?. ■M f^-.r*, i'S .\ y ,M>'fi 2 1 . .. K ,^S ; It- : ■■■ :?* 5; ' Sis.- • u ■'^^■t^^\Jie>*i 93 M i:. 1. "Mi- ll uik; soil-l. it iiiMV 111' Ml. 'I'lic Act .-;:ivs tliiit tlii-s I'O.sidiic of le (Simmon Sclmol I'diwl slml! In- tlio |>rM|iiiry of Oiuiaila. Sii; .Iami.s \V. (Joi. VII. k :-- That is (■(HitriiijiIati.Hl iiy tlie .Vet. l,oi;ii Si.i.uuu.m: : -it is not tliit tho ailiitiiitdis arc (Itjiii'.'; aiiytliiiig. It is inijily l^liL-ir awaiil. 'riieydu lintliiim- at Sii: -Kui;! ui I'. ('fii.i.ii.K- ;- 'I'lic iiicdinc is tu he dividel lictwceii Outari'> and (»iicl >ec. Mi:. li'Aii'As :- Tlioy dn.^urolv, my Kurd. L()i:i» >fK.i.iiii);Ni; : — '"Sliall lie appointed hotwccii and paid over to the respoc- livc Pruviiici;- -if ()Mtarii> and Quohec, as directed hy the 5th sootion. chapter 20. of T/ie Conxi'liif'il"'! Sfniufos (>t CidukJu."'' jNIr. I>i>mi'a> : — It deals witii tins pio|)ci'ty which is vested in Canada and exjire^sly proN idcs tliat it biiail l)e divided in a manner whioli the arhitratuis think i? in ac'cordaiici/ nith tiio provi>i'ini5 id" a ccitain Act ui I'ailianiunt, and it takes iiwav with \\:\\ r.-iirr to them as well a- wirli reference to the U'th section. '.)i;ii M.i I', 'i;.-.!' ^x\\ Idllt kl|(iWHl.>- u-it!i it. M the facts we caruiot really iiu-sihlv deal K. 1 .OUl) .\Vi::\\. \vi liout kn^'. Siu -I AM ;nii]'s ariiii;i.'-''" '■ [iDWer :;'i%en m. i ' Mm. l;..Mi.- lli'iijaiiiin, liiiiiient wli iliat a jiarr iiriiera'. \\' « 1 am not coiUeiiihiiu' tliat tliat is wniiin'. - -We c-mnot I'-^uim,; uliil was di>ne or what wa.s not duiie facr.. o:,\ r'.K: - Ale y.'ii iK.t a littii' iticmi-istent with Mi'. Henja 1 iinderstoM:! !.'iin r-> f.iMtend that it wa- iiiiMn.-isleiit with tiu; A.-t of r ;ii Iwiinen' W .Ml dip nut think I am '.^iUiills or in faet iiicoiisistcnt with M' icnuinim .~::ui wa.- il.at the)'e \vas a certain .Vet ot 1' lh! ai: rlic ii; iiii';"r\- III iiK f ll iihitutors, and which p l-n\'Ii:c pjid .-!:oiil:l i.c ii'i'i ill the ahsdliit" discivtioii (d' the (ioveiii'T iCtlh-!- '.\itl: the pr-'^' ..I'-dcneral. I' i'!'i!i'aro!s ciiild deal 'A-iMi liie on ■i . 'i ( ):'.r:i;vi .\-; nf l'.,i!iini peity I if Canada, a s well a- ' Jiiclic;-. clearly they coiild nut deal with tlir '.v'li' !i L'.iVi' ci'i-taiti aiiili.Ji'itie-i to tlu; (to\-eni- ll iliai tl ,■!! he . r,..iii!Mi'd tiii'V liaii cMacded their aiithnril v. nil lint "I! Ml •- 11' 'lilt imw i\ ,- i!liii!!tiiii2 'I:. II tliey did in fact tl,,:' winch that iii\ !' liiii'd fi'iend Mr, lii'i: j 'iiiie i am -lire >iilini!'teil to yoiir l.on' sii'I it v.'a- :; tripariife loMhatinii. tli it ihc award did in p"i'. 1-^ the rlL:!ii> nf ( Jiiehec and Ontario I I ::_!'ls ol ( ',111:111,1 -i.s w,- ;i- lem-'nilier tiiat the >!,! f!ie li dit t'l i MlijiS, aHo "f fact tnll- ,iMil your hiHiiiliiiii! ll! |ia!i;;lil ari-i', li'iiily nii'ilit ari.-e as to w jl.ihi'a'ry of t!ie Tailiai cut at ( )it liiiyiii^'. I ,1''/. whii'li ni\ i-ir!:im pri ira.,rapli expressly i^'ives tn fin' ip'urty a I .SL'ori/ini'i. (.Jiiesiimi- 1; i~ iHil iieiliaiis lof Mil' t'l say they lia\e arisen, hut ■pie.-tioiis lietlier thai s-jno.iaiii which inainlv coM-dsts of t'c iwii. \'.a- i!ic Dciininion pi'0]>ei'ty witlnaiL ■111,- verv doiihtfiil under tiie ti'i'ins of 7'/'. JiriH^'/i Xni'Ui A ii" / the l)i ,pi'-,-ly pi Ml! IliuM, will ovide- th.it all the piiMie hiiildihu's al <>(tawa ihcr the iiidilic I I i:'.'i'\' Will lloUi'l vc- i!d not he llie iirouertv nf iM iiiiiiiiii'iii. Ill l,i..';ii 1 !i \,N. 1.1,1,01; \i>ii .■:,i\ Ilia' soiiielhiii:;' wroii^' lias Ihtii I) '•1 ilir I /ii|ii;:,.i.|i !• Mn i;...!.■^-: ■i|i| ( hii'h.i- '.lii,; I ■I S'.'OI 1,1 H 1, ' I . •1;, lli:il ii !'\i'l,'.vlii.'|i aiiaija li\' 1 1'l- awaii ^es. T 11' :!\\ai( I iii;.'. Ih,it the l.ihrai'X helon,i;'s lo ( hit II iiid thai llie I iniiiiiiiui, I'f (':niada may have it on payn hai llirv have d'Uii' ur iiol done, hi' I t like Ml --a \ V 'I.I \{-!\ lie a 1 'I'liii'V !■( Mil iiii ^"'i iiiiili r I 'ir Scl I,.'., .,1' 1!. M'i'li.e < di' I '1 I I hr I'll !. Ill liiMi ; .1 I ai' t ■> '. • I III .1 III 111 I nlli' a:ii' all olliei' iniiuii :i:i rl. lii\ 1,1' ■J I I ll nil' a hd < appiiipi'i,ile !.ii he ii.-i' ' 1 I I'lliielll.-, :il'e lo he ihc |i|n|i,','l v <'\' < '.llhni U t. ■ .TB,'^ 'i»n n -v-r: •Mwrrmn^v^ t^, ' . ' . ■^yv i m f H-m enttn -vnwir mn^fm^'Varvovjfr itl '■ • ^ If * r u M^ i !, 9;? tlie Goveiiiinciil. Uuiise at Ottawa, wliicl) your Lorilslii|) ronn'mhcr.--, was where tlie Doiiiiiiioii (iuvi'i'iiinent was for tlio future to meet. That this beini,' a Library in this (itivcrnmont House, it might Ite conteiulcil tliat with thi Government Houses that Lii)rary parsed, ami that that was a qnesition in whieh the Dominion of Canada was interested, whether or not that Library was to be allotted to C>n- tario, and it being- pruvidod tliat nnlers the Dominicm Government paid $<20(»,u0o they should not be entitled to the Libr.iry at Ottawa. Siii DRUNKS Pkacook :- Do you mean the books or the building il ]\[r. Domi'As: — The hooks as I understand. I addueethat as another instance, and 1 tliiid< your Lordships will find tliose are not the only ones, but it is sufficient to call attention to the point. Louii Ski.uouni; : — "Which is the clause of tlie Act of Parliament under which tlio Lilirary is passed to the Dominion? i\[R. lUx.iAMix :— It is the lOSth which says that '• the Public "Works and pro- perty of Oiich Province ennnierated in the third Schedule of this Act shall he the projiorty of ( .'aiiada.'' Loiin Ski.udknk :— Is this in the third Schedule ? That particular clause is liiniteil to things ennnierated in the third Schedule? Mil. li.oiFAs: — Yes, my l^ord. • Sii: Ijaj.m.s PrAcncK : — The award has treated it as the joint property of the two I'l-vinces of L'ppor and Lower Canada. As the personal property of those tv.' it ought to have l)een diviled between thetn, instead of wliich the a'.!.i!ti;iT.'i; .-.ly it is nut e\[)edient to divide it, but it shall go over to the Dominion. Siu liiiia.uT P. '."oiJ.tKi: : — Put the third Schedule specifies what sliall be the property .'f Canada. Loii. Sk[.!!oi:\i: : - The l"Stli section does not refor to the Domirtion at all, and seeohuly, it only refers to the property in the third Schedule. y,\i. PiiMi'Af. :— Why does your Lordship .--ay it does not refer to the ! )(iniiii!"': at ail .' 1.";:;. .'^1 i.i;M(:.\i, :- niVMUNC it says Canada, and (.'anada does imt mean the l)i»nrui!i !i. does it ( Ml;. P;>Mi'AS : -Vcs, my Luii'; in the inferprctation clause the Dominion is always to meat) Canail.i. Loi;n Si:i.iu.ii;m, : -\ (;s, you an^ (piifc right. 1 had forgotten tliat. ft is a i-onfu.^ioii which doe.■^ arise in one's nund. Sii; .Iami;s "W. t 1oi.\ ii.i, :- 'I'his it not approi)riated by The Brit >ith North A imrcii, Ai:t. Mu. I'cMi'As : — (^)uite so. They say it is clear that a Schedule of this sort which passes a building, which has Iieen used for the purpose of the Legislature, do'.'s not pa>s it as furnished, but that it passes the mere, building, LoKO Si;i,niui.\i; : -Woidd the word '■building" vAvvy willi it the books '. Mil. lioMTAs: — I should have thought so, in the coUixition it would p:iss the lixtnres. Sii: Mo.n taoi !• K. Smmm :--They wonhl be of \ery little use if they wtro ilxtlll'l'S. .Mi; !'.oMi'A>: ijuitc so, but they are not lixtun^-- in that sense. All I am -iddiiitting t that iiilsiloc-^ not deal otdy with llial l.ibiary. Il de:d-. with all other propertio of i.dieliec and « hitarlo. l.oi:i> Si'.l iJoJlM. : "As hi ail peronal pi'opeil_) being tlie joint propel fy of ij(k^ififW-^(n3fn^-'i^iWS'S^1tfWr''jrTr'''V^ i ^ ) ;t i,i>jn, w ^i; i vw -..' i i VWiU !i''S^, mm i mi fm mm m ite L: ''1'^ ■ ^^^•••■a iti {he suiil Proviiieo^ of Ontario urul (2iicl)ec, not liiMvinljuforo lucntioiio;] or dciilt with ai'il not appro|)iiatu»:I !)_>' tliosaitl Jiritisli Norili Aiaerien Act, ISf)?." Tlie Liljia- rv soonis plainly to liave been a tliin«i; which liefore tlie Act did not bek)ng to tlio Dominion, because New Brnnswick and so on had iw^thinn' to do witii it, and it' tlio Act does not give it to the Dominion, it would be beyoiul their ])owcr to give it. " >[ii. BoMPA^i : — Unless it caino within the i^eneral words it v.-oiild not pass to the Dominion, and the Award would I)e correct. Loun Sklijok-.!; ;— And your argument would fail. Mk. Bomi'AS : — It would at any rate go to this extent. It may be .said they have given a power to the Dominion. They have been dealing with those things in which tlie Dominion are interested, and settli'ig the price at which they should bo .'^old, and I fhuuld think the Dr)ininion would be entitled to be heard on that point. Your LoriUliIp seCvS they do not Mdju>t in any sense; this remainder. It is maind'jr, tlir whole of which is to be oll'ered for .s200,000. They make no >t of it. 'jilt merely doal with it in that generiil way as any thing not ;i I'O aujiiitmci 1 anitrnpri ated. !ime propor- tlH i^iK RoiifUT P. Col. LIKE : — It is to go to the I'ruvinces in the Si n a.« is mentioned in the first paragraph. 8iK Baknks I'ka'-ock :— It might be said that the arbitrators had e.vcoeded icir autnoi'itv wir !i reference to the award tif the Libi'ary. Tlu; liibrary beii Itho joint pDpovfy of Ontario and <>nel»oc they were to divide it between thu,-e •',V(> l>\- t1 »eir awa.a; Ipiit msr.eai I'XpL'.lient it sh"'. L-\pi'ilieut to divi \)V. (liv- id 0(1 :i (•(.' rtam price or niiit, the .\ct of Parliament Iiaviiig said ii wa.s or directing them to dividi! it, tliey wi}' it is not l)iU tliey :j:ive it to rlic Dominion it tli"y hko to take it at the Dominion do not ohoo.-c to take it, then the other mav ike it at a cerriiin orice, wherea> thov were diiec.ted to divide it. That i.-< the 'U!-!eiMith tnii :r, '■\\ o ft) le awar.l. So: Iioi;Kin P. CoLMKi: : — They divide the pnichafe money. Mi; PoMi'.'.? : -I do not propo.~o to call attention I'lirtlier to that. I^Iy sul liiii>.-ioi) on the Act is that tlu; real eil'ect i.s that which was put so clearly by tliej Ikiml ('hancellor. th.it the Act iirovide^ that .\ P. C ha I hold an arbitration and lull livisi<.,,is and adjiistincnts in this matter. Then, my Lords, my liist tMihmi.^.'^ioii to yi'ir Lordship- is tiiat wherevei itliority is given to A V> and C to do anything that I here that authority must bf d strict! v tiV A 1> and (J, and that the 'ino 'jiiDfiiiii, imles.-^ a ijUDruin is men- imd in the Act of Parliament, is the three, and Ic.-s than the tluoe cannot 111' example, supposing there is an Act of Pailiaiiient which .«ays that three 'Mtli'iiien shall be appointed railway coiiimissioncrs and shall decide certain s|iuti,'s between the various railways. In the aL-eiice of any words to the .m- in the Act of Parliament, the three must sit, and two td' them cannot ;'i'v iL'iilc any disiiutes between the raiiwav coiiipaiiies. "y !hit ll|)l)O.S it is said, if 1 ly liiiinbly adduce a.'i instance lunirer home, supposing it is said in this (/ourt italii ecclesiastical ca.ses can In; heard only by the Court with the assistance of !i !■ iii'diojis, then this (.'ourt v.'ith th(! assislancc of two Itishops cannot, whatever canst! from which the third bish(,)ji i- not prc-ciit here, ilr(;i(|e any c.i-e. tlic .' .\ct of I'ai'li.iiiH'nt liaving s.ud that a ca-c is to be dccidcil li\ three peis ii.t be shown that there is an e\pre.'S provision, or a di-timt ly implicti pi'^' ^1 [I ii,, ill the Act of Parliament giving powci' to a less niimlni lo act, or an iv.'o on! V I!- al!Si)lnlel\' ,lt I il lUfr.t aiKl Void 'iit; Loun Ch' wci.i.i.oi; Do Mill sav sliollld i!^e lo hear \(iiir aiiiiin IV o ollll> parately ■ t hal III lie e:i.M' yoii jilit, llio tliiee liiusi ln' inialli lioMl' X. sav lii so.iie ease- lliev iiiiia iind in some tlu.v i, ■/'Mi'-:' ■ ^m^if itr * »"t t«» . ''' M y »if -'»«««^»«'TH»,'g ij p'i wf» r'''''«'*»'''m'»^^ Li S 'i«'».)4k i^t. ■■ :' \i !3 !Ki. Til |,,,,. I iiiniiiis^s ,iL. Mli L., .iirfiiiH's Till ["V-^iiiU ii Mu. Till Li , ml tliu ( Mi:. Li",! i'ihIj tw ( Ik i'lio n. .Mi;. l:,„r liii-: |i||I>Ir% w Mli. .'.Iiorlicr ,1 -•■rtled. Ill' i, lu^V MlV t : ■ Ti!H Mk. I'twccFi t: ,■ ivi.sioii.T V •'■ill ted i'l ',. ■ ilTS \vll( 'I'lu.'i' i"ir iiii\'i( liai i. Ti,'.:, '„■ ' .-rtth; (J ■ ■ 'I' a |»Ml)li Mk. Tin; I •Mi: n I' link it. mi '■'t think Ell rK\-;ti(iH8 t III' l-ui:i) ].! interest it i ''liii:;' it to h • \Mi:. [5 \i 'ic(':il|.-^(( it ■It rlii; Ac Tj.k I |>, 'iliui:..; tlli'V :"llili(', lU.il i ll'^l Jl.lVO ^-iti; uihI it 'lii;i!.<, l)iit Ml,-. I!, •li:U iV Ihr V iU "'■1^ in 111 ■ ^^■' ^tiiiii 'lifti mi tiiittii'n'it&fctfi ^•^■^'i 95 '^I'liK LoKi) Cm \.N(,'i:i,u»i: : i'lippotjiiiif tlic casa you put of tho tlireo railway i)miiii.sdi(jn('i': 1\Ik. I*u.mi-as :--I pIiuuIiI siv i../t luiiuiiiiioii.s certainly, bi'canso they are |ij)uiiitf(l Ity |uil.>Iic aiitliorify ti) exerciso a public duty over, if I luay :J0 say, 'iffiiitrs, ovvv the pul)lic, unci I iind in all tlic cact-s the Chan( r.i.i.Mij :—])(> y')n say, takii'<^ the cabc before us, that sup- l>i\Niii^ all wcvL' prudent tlioy niui^t have l)oeii unaniuiuiis ? Mii. lIoMi'Ai : — In this ca-^e I .•^ul)init to your Lord^>!lip that they must. Tui; LoiM C^MA.Ni'Ki.LoK :- TIkii explain the distinction bet\vci-.n this case ml the case of tiie railway coinmijsiDneis. J\Ii:. lJoMi'A> : -Tlie distinction [ draw is that theconindssioiiers are a pubh'e nody to decide nufstions between all the public who brin^ (piestions bcfoi'c thciii. Tmi; Lord CnA.\Gi;r.[,oR :— Dn y^n say this is not a public body ? ilCU Ml:. 1 iar d jOMI'AS !S!)1 ite ! -1 submit uuf. because they are appointed to (leeidc one par- KJiwccn tw(» per-(Mi« Till-; JjOi::' Ciia.v.kli.o!: n i.'rween the two 1 rovmcc: iiblic. what ri- to Ijc .■ttled, are pc-iois uf so irrcat importimce tliat the public is interested or that licv are l!K the T Mk. IJom I'twi'cti Sci..:k ivisiun^ m".y ' '.minted b>r ;•, ; ilT- wh') JiU' Ml, 'lie oven . iKIi (."llANCKr.l.i I'AS -U It wa- a :; t :i!:;l |-Jl;;!:lIKi Ml.' or ac'.'urjnii th'- I; *ut They are the |)ublic. ■ ii>pntc between twt.- parishes, or a dispute 'I' I (li>| lite between any ilivi.siun, alt!ii.>ii:j;h tjioso t'l; r 1 suliiiiir is not wiihin the phi'ase, "■ authurity ap- ' at .'^en.-c. it is really more like the ease of whether leather or loaves are accordiiiEj to it. than a tiibiinal over all sorts and kinds of ;l.c pucp i.-v :ii tl i.iij.'iiilwi to deei'k' W nV 1; I'livu uais. lA.vci M,iii; Tl,'; Loi;!. C 1 settle (|!U;stijiis lietween ir a public pii'icise nu'i'i " you iii(;aii to .say the eoiiimissioners appoiuttMl lul aiul Set'tbmd are not public conuuissioiiei"s Mk. I t JUMTA- Not I shoiil'l tiibmit within tlie rule which decides whether lie to i'O iiii:Uiimiiiis nr luii. Tin:! Mr I OUlt ( "ll WC'M.OU --W iOMTA- -V lai are they -private ir short iie.-s, the wonls pul)lie and j)rivatc are used but I iiik it inus Ije .sc '. jii as far as i)o;sible what is the reason of that distir.ction. f do it think the reason of the distinction can be becau.se .f tl le ini aostums L to be S por tanc f tl le (leciMeu OKI) M;[.I'.oU\K :--Is not one reason for the distinction, that in the Mublic interest it is r.eee.-^sirv the thiiii;- should be decided and that vour aro'iment WOJl Ml:. iSo-MTAS :— i think witli all respect that is one of tlie nuiin reason Id null'' it to a ilea d-lock »ih1 i:caiiM! it .seems to be clear here that there ; nothin (.'ii.\N< Ki.i.oi: I 11: lavo a reas'iiKiOle mlerpri.: illu uhhe, make, a provision ^1 1 ale I dna! rivate iiuiivKluals may make whatever stipii- ts th i:,-i they like, but if the piiblie. throuifh the lei^islatiire which represents the or tli(! well beiii:;' and benelit of the whole 8tate, that ion by tlu! State or by tho.si.^ who repre,-;eiit the iiid it 1^ iMit as ll iie\' w I'l'i: i|ealini>' wit M , but a- I i;. r)0Mi'.\ r tl lev wei'e dealiiiL: Wi in.Avi' iial I.- lu; ireMTal rule n ! niK aw : o! '■•> ■itiii:is 111 any v.'av liiev oke. tins [irivate allairs ot tno indi- h alfairs .vith resi.cel to the 8tat(>. ■liould ^i\e to that is thai thi.^ is a (jucition of uise private individuals may make stipu- '"'*r?' ^TW^'IWMBWVjM ■''^''''*ff^5?SS?l'*P'r'W*JWI|J5?HB*Pf!^^ i m m\ xji'.y mi w m: m. ^® 1 W:. & *mo .:!lt' 'A'^. i ;t i^'.!k Ml M k ':. ■.ft'>:i»- \s.r' '„■>■.( i;». »i'-i-.'.' '^f^ne^- "% .■V=>! "^'^ ■^v^J ji '••oil i ^ Al '\ * J, E "li. iU 00 Till Lni;i» C'ii.vn(.'i;i.i,hu : - I'ut wv liavi; not. laanl wliat tlic rulo of law is. .Mi:. I5iimi'.\s : — fii iMaiicf, tlit; jiuiiunil nilu ol' law is that in privalc, a.s will as ill i-iihlic, tlio majority ii;ay hind, ami any partv may .stipnlato that tliuy shall l»f nnaninioii.-i; hnt tiio cinnniun hiw of Eiij^laiul, oiiiriiially, .suhjuot to the c.\c(>|i tinii 1)1' puhlic matfurii, is that whuru |)ursuiisaroa|»|H>intuitrations ordered hy jndcc.s' order are not ordered hy tiio party. They are ordered cuinpulsively, aj^aiiist the will of the party, and yot there is decision after decision that in tliat case tliev must ho unanimous. Even in tho ease of arhitratioiis under tho Lands (clauses Act, the Act of I'arliament has put in an express )>rovisiou as to whether thoy .«hall or^^hall not ho unanimous, and I lind iiotraceanywhereof any suggestion in any case that where tlio Act of Parliament did not expressly .^ay that the majority slioiiM hind or rhat an umpire slu>uld he appointed any douht as to the necessity of the naniiiiity of the whole. J'ut undouljtodly the ipiestion of unanimity, in all those u (lUe.-fiuii.-. (lepL-nds on whether or nut the matter is within the sense of the aiith •uu ritie.i a j)iiiiiieor a private matter, and the larger (jiiestioii which I am |)rop(); tirst to call your Lordships' attention to, and U|»oii which I am afraid I mn.-t cite to your Lord~iiips a few authorities. The larger (jiiestion i" tho first in.9taiice i- what is t!i<,' .ju.irum i hecanse, as I shall suhmit to your Lord.Nliips, astqi'iiltig that, thusij tliive .i.'hitiators were not retiuired unanimous, and 1 should have tiioii^'ht. with anil p. I. lect. that that dei)eiided partly upon whether lliey wore a puhlic 1 so upon wliether they represented three dilVerent intere-ts - ! )ii 'V ■)('<';UiiO SilMlil i)pci;iir iiave thought that fur the liL'iiellt of the puhlii-, rhat where I'arliatiKi.t ! tlii'je pei^ons tw represent thi'oe ditYerciit interests, presumaiil;. rii^it wiiiil'l Hi, .:ii tiiat each of tiuise three interests should have a veto on any arr igc meiit iKi'.iie, and that, in i)u!ilii? matters hi;tweeii hingdonis, it was neeessar; oi'dcr thiit an award should not cieate ill feclinii' lietweeii the two, that, each ' ,! Iiuvi' a veti.i on the (juestioii; hut whether or not they must he imai lilt a!i tiij aiiihoiities go to tlii.-, that, with the exception which I sli suou tsul, iiiit i.- ri'/ an exception strictly sp^'akiug, leaving out of sight foi' a inoineiit tl case t'oriioiMMon, im. -J 1 eaviiii III it of siiilit for a moment the cases in. v.hich h\ tin express terms of tlie Art of I'arliaiiteiil expressed or implied .i (litlV'i'eiit mil' is laid down, with the exc.e[)tion |)o.ssihly of a. dietum in one case. I havo found ii > e\ceptio:i to the rule laid down, that in all cases where a pow-'r is given to a certain ninnher of iieisons, all those persons must lie pre.-mt to [K-'iforiii the duty, and that the al).seiice of any one of them prevents the power heing exercised . N'ow my L':'rd, to go hack in tho first instance to tho old authority of Vhi' r.s Abiiilijni-.nt which J may read to your J^ordshi])s. Till. Loiio CiiAN'ria.LOK : — I do not think we leipiiro authorities to prove that. If a ]io'.Mr i- given l>y Act of I'arliament it I'nust he executed independent '>f t' iiieaiiiiig ot the wi.ird power In tl le case ol a powe r heiiiir uivon to a father and on, and a third person if you like, to revoke a settlement of property, two out the three- could not do it. Mit. Bo.Mi'As: — lam not using the word power in the technical seii.-i' "f .i power under a will, I an taking for exam|)le this case: A commission to twenty .liistice- of the I'eace and iu> special iiu iition in the comiiiission of v.h shall he a ijuorum. Tiie whole twenty Justices must meet hefore a r-i It eiiMi iiL'ie ai't he done, althi.>ii'.rh the iiiaji.rity wlieii they hind, that is surely a puiilic i iMtr-r f ■":«■*»▼"»■ ,■ ' -.i.-j-**', A ' fp- f il ri-c riiv. IV. iIm: Is 1 -1? •2* If ■ 3|| ? - :55 • » ^,? 1 -*: ^:^ if III 11' I' It ■vr"'«iT«.. 07 t> I'i ^l.v'- luii 'T ill", ii ■I-'- Ml l„V. lli. t:;i' 11 • i;i 'lie ,.,1 There u no question oi a puwer iincler a settleinont or aiiyfliing of that kind. There is a distinct court created not of three l»ut of twcrity. Tin: Loun CuANoiM.r.oit : — Suppose it una the case of twenty Justices of the Peace meeting to do bo and so, do yon mean to »ny if they vjcre duly convened and one eiiose to stay away that tliat paralyses tlie action of the remainder? Mr. JioMPAs; — So I understand. Thf, Loko Chancki.i.ok: — What is tlie antliority for that? Mr. Bompas: — Tlie authority for that is this, at least as 1 undcistajid if, the case of IVie Queen v. The Burgesses, Bailies and comw.nniti/ of the Town of Oippo, in second Lord Raymond, page 1233. The Lord Chancellor : — That is the name of an extinct town, I should think. Lord Selboknk : — It is Ipswiek, no doubt. Mr. Bompas : — I suppose it is, Gippo, in the County of Suffolk. Yes, my Lord, it is Ipswiek. The passage I quote is at p'lge 1237 : "To the cause of for- feiture assigned in no.' holding a Session of the Peace two exceptions were taken." The case itself was a question of forfeituie by a Recorder because he was not present at the Sessions where he ought to have been. It was a manda- mus to restore Sergeant Whitaker to the place and office of Recorder of the town of Ipf^'.vick, and they made a return. Srii Robert P. Coli.ikr : — Was it because he was not present? Mk. Bompas: — A great many objections were taken — "to the cause of for- feiture ossigned for not holding a Session of the Peace, two exceptions were taken ; first, that a Session of the Peace might be held without him, he not appearing to be of the quorum, and two J usticea of the I'eace may hold a Session of tne Peace ; and secondly, admitting it could not, yet first they ought to have sent for him, and secondly they ought toliaveshov.il some special damage to the Corporation by Wv\ not holdir,g the Sessions. To this it was answered and resolved by the court : first, that admitting the presence of the Recorder were not necessary by the Charter to the holding a Session of the Peace, (ITolt, the Chief Justice, observed that it did not appear by this return that there was any (|UoiiMn of the Justices of the Peace, and where a commission is granted to twenty porpons to be Justices of Peace, and there is no quorum, they must all attend at thi; holding of a Session, and if so; then the sergeant's absence must be a forfeiture), yet he must attend, for it was the intent of the Charter in making such an oificer that he should assist the Corporation in matters of law ; and the Justices of Peace, tliough they had powei', yet they might be afraid to proceed to the holding of a Session without their Recorder." Sir Robert P. Collier : — Could not a prisoner be tried unless they were all there ? Mb. BosiPAs : — So the Chief Justice held, certainly. Lord Skiborne : — You lay great stress on the words which were not neces- sary for the decision . Mr. Bompas : — It is so stated by the Chief Justice and so cited. Then I will take another case not dealing perhaps with so public a body. Lord Selbornf. : — I suppose it would be very diflicult to reconcile that case as you interpret it with other well known authorities. Where are the words you refer to ? Mr. Bompas :— -At page 1237 of my edition. Sir Harnts Peacoik' : — Was it the judgment of flie Lord Chief Justice that you were reading ? Mr. Bomi'AS : -It is an interlocutory reason of the Chief Justice for the de- cision, one answer that he gives to the contention. Sjk Roi!Ki?t p. Coi.i.ii-r : — This was an oUscrvatioa of the Chief Justice put in parenthesis. "They must all altond at the holding of the session," ho doi^-j not say they tuust attend during the whole continuance of the session, !^ yj<:■■■ '{ t- ? ' , ! «5» [J ?.» «S5 ^ >^ -.'<• ^Sil .)'' I i 03 l,i)i;i» Si;(.r,.ii:M; : lie incaiis tlinsi- tliat attend mil -t attoinl at that tiiiio, all tliu^o tiiat MUii'lit to lit: tlioi'o. Sii: Mt'NTAiifi; E. Smith : — 'I'lieiu seems to he a nio.-t tccliiiical answer to all this, tluit \ wore not by adjourn- ment, I should luise snhmitteil that that made no dill'erence. Siu iloNTAtri M E. y.Mirii ;- -Do not let me take yon off the ]oMrAs:-It appears by the ca-se that there was no adjournmont at the time when they met lor the consideration of tiie award and for icivino of Jlroirnv. Andrein, in the 13th Jurist, pajrelioS. There, *• the defendant, a member of the Provincial Com- nuttee in a Railway Coinjjany, took part in a resolution ajipointing eis^ht specified person.- to be a manaii'iny' committee, and directiui;' them to take the m )st energctie :ii'ja»iiie.-- for i/airyin::' on the scheme. There was no ]>rovi.'^iuii in the resolution as proved that any iiiimlier less than the wliol(> mi;4'l!t act ; there was no evidence of any iisaire that any miiul)er le.ss than the wliole usually acted in such cases, or of ;i.ii_\ inteiitio:; on the part of the def(;iidant, that any number less than the whole -liould act in the ]):'e,-ent ease : — Held that the authority must be taken, on tile evi.leiice uiven, to have been a simple one to the ei^hl specilied persons to act ; and ti: J. tl.crel'oij. tlie defendant was not bound by a rontract, within the scopti of ::i :■ ar,thoiity.i:u>i!e by otilv si\- of them, with the plaintifl'." I apprehend the wli"!'.- .J^iit iniLhr hr.ve been summoned. L"!:i.' .'^M.!;'!:.\K :- 'i 'i:.v ill (he tirs' jdaee is n private matter, and in t!i seeoiiil \i..v:: ; Oe lel.'!' the qM'.-:;-; .».; Ti ; V ow. Mi: 1... T' '.\s ;— -Ite,; E-]:i.S 1 I i;o:;.vi ■ ^ Mk. 1; Ml '.\- 1 Xo; of bindii:u' : *10 mill'. irit\ ■ oil tile ^pi.'''iai evi'lence bv Wll ich the court tliouuht there beiii^' no e\ idenceto the contrary — i:e io t!;i.-, lliai i;d iio L'\ideiii.'e of any usa^'O to the contrary. in t!ie .-ens' that a majority couh! not binil, in tlio son-". -Lord nen:i:;i;i, Cliief Justice, .-:M'd : "In the absence o I the iiiteiidi'd constirntion of this eommittei.', or of mOkiI any:L;enera! piaetieo in "-ncli c.ises, we cannot take any ;is intended ir of custom. It is vinv likelv that the any evn.it". t.e ^A what the defendant kne'.v a.- notice ei'.'.e:- ."f v.diai defend itii. diil in poin of fact inieii ' that tlie majority of the ci^ht whom 'u named to lie of the eoioiiiittee who iiii^lit be piv.-eiit at any meetin«r siioidd oxer cise the authority whitdi hu delea^itod, luit in the absence of all (.vidence as to his intention, we cannot say \vlKit it wa^. .Ml that we >''e is an authority to eight per- sons to act and an act done by si\. Thar is not sutlicieiit to bind the defendant. Loud .Si:ij!oi:.nk : — That clea.rly is, that iii)on the evidence it being a priv.itu matter the agency must be of the .\hole eight, not merely that they must all be present, but that they must all concur. .Mk. IJo.Mi'As :- -J know of no distinction given betwi'eii private and public a.> regards the number v.dio sliouhl be piv-eiit : of eouise, it I- mo-.'c (ulhciilt to find cases of per.-.oiis aiipoiiiied under .Vet of Parliiinent. As I said leforo, I can find no aiilhr>rity for tlie di>tinetion. I.oi;;) Sm.i'.okm: : — Do you Kiiow the ea.-'^ of 'J'lu (hie n r. WhlUik-r ? Mk. lio.Mi'As;- ^'es, my Lonl : 1 was goin-.; to call atti'tition t'-tlm^e fourca.ses in a minute. I thini: you will lind one of them, namely, lllihl.itv. Pch'vu/'d, in the Oth ./t'',-;i .".•'(// iDiil (.'/■. v../".//, is to some ixieiit ,in authority against me. Vour Lordship- will lind in 'he twoothrr (mm. of Withji'll >'. Ii'iti-lluuii and 'I'hc /\'i>i>; V. H7»''/''/.r till' jiidre.-- < .\pr-->l,\ .-ay, wedeidde it beeaiix' We understand the .Act of Paiiiameiit to Jiave .-aui that a li ~. imiMber -hall boa «^w^Ki>iiiirf«K wHfmmimifm^'nif''**^**^ %^f fl ^*' ' " W; '-'^ ! '^ "' '"! » » " '" ''^. .l>'. ', l* < > ''* .f '>' i, y'''' , r»>-W>M'; i.? y , ' . ^ j, '' , T;''?|^ "^'^^*] r>v- h » '0 It ir It w II' I'll III n. Ill la' ',t '"SwWH ^j^i^»^ imsmiiiBmm*M ;S!»f»5W>»vr!rK»"'-«-^ci ■ V"> w-m to (Kicidc it on any general |irinci|)!(3 that tlioy wore a pal;lic body, and I should snl)init, so far as it goes, it is not an autliority against mo, Init an authority in my favour. Loud Ski. iioKNK : — In that case of Tlie Kiinj 'c. Wliikd'Ci' the judges wero very cautions not to suppo.-^c tliat all nui:«t bo present. Mk. I'o.Mi'As :— Tiiey were caution^ ; but your Lonlsliip remembere the other case of (friniUcij v. /?c.;!i' witli reference to this being in rh(? nntiirenfa com mis.-;if>n from (^Miancery ti^ jv.iitition. Tiic c;i'^e, no dcubt, is well '.nown to your Lordships of Watsoii ■>:. Th: I'liJcc or two. ;ind Lord KIdon say.-^ therefore a return hy four, throe or two is valid ; but ho say.s that the (.'•■.■iiiiiion Lav,' rule that the exaot terms of the |»ower must lie deiinitels \\\\'\ actually ea'iied (uit is one \vhirh onuht to bo ke[)t U|). The c\- picss decision there v.'iis wlien foiu coimnissinnors wore presout ami two maile one return ■iii'l two anotlier, you couh! not treat the rt^turu as good although it w:iiuon, their comnii^-ion does not n'lthoi izc; two oui ol four to act ; therefore, in la\^- it i.; the juilunieiit of none, uf thi'iii". I only cite th;it as showing that his Lordship held that there mu.-^t bi> a strict (Compliances with tlu' (./onimon Law rule, of [)owe!'s. My Lords, ihe Coininon Law rule of powers, as I uiulerstMud yoni' Lonlships toadiuil. is tlmt where power is given to three persons, then three? per sons may do it. '''hen the (pu- .^tioii eomesto he w liellior that nu'ans that the ihreo bciin.; pie. .ent, the act of the niajoiil\ V- the act of the whole, or wholhcr it ■ •an be said tliat thi'-e per-oii- having to do a ihiiii;, w lien one d then) does not iio it, !oit sloji; a\\a_). the olhor two ean do II. "■ Vi!ni) 3 i i<, > y t. v,i ., > . / ir » .:' .w^j^y%, ' "* I' " yufwjipyjuw iii i »» i | i ;,iw^ry ' ytnH ' |i ?* ' '' -' ' '^' ' """ y"."''^'^ '^ ' ?'?* ^"' ' Ill c',ii-4''i'l i mm f [MP I / r : V'' , raa- l.il ;■ li,V5 m 59 tsmmSuaassamaeii r''-!?i^m^'^'!:^!^^^^^^*^m'^- 100 Then jny Lords, before going to tlio ciise of Grindiey v. Barker, T should like to oito to your Lordships one case that has not yet been cited, Guthrie v. Armiifrrniif, 5 Barnevall and Alilerson, page 020. This is as to a private matter 80 that perhaps it will not much affect yonr Lordships. It is a case "where a power of attorney was given to fifteen persons jointly or severally therein named to execute such policies as they or any of them should jointly or severally think proper," and that the old cases cited in Viner''8 Abridgment were expressly applied ; but it was said that the express terms of that power enabled the four persons named to execute it. LoKD Sei.bokxe : — "Jointly or severally," how could any question arise? Sm Montague E. Smith :— All things they say is, it is either all or one. Mk. Bomi'as : — The case states : "In order to prove this a power of attorney signed by the defendant was produced by which he constituted fifteen persons there named his true and lawful attorneys jointly and separately for him and in his name to sign and underwrite all such policies of insurance as they, his said attorneys or any of them, should jointly and separately think proper." Sir 2iioyTAGUE E. Smith : — It would be either one or all. Mr. Bi'Mpas : — It was admitted that that would be perfectly true except for the words in thy latter part "or any of them". It was said that if they had been constitutt'1.1 liis tiue and lawful attorneys, jointly and .separately, they could not have done it, but inasmuch as it went on to say "as his afiorney.^; or any of them should j'lintly or pcjiaratoly think ])roper" that those words explnined the former ones and overruled the effect of them in Common Law. Loiiij Ski.B'Iiim: : — It j-eems a very odd decision because those words "or any of them" are followed by "jointly and se]>arately." How could those words in the second \i]Ai:i- have a dilYereiit ofTect to wliat they had in tlie fust place? What does it in;ir.tcT if when they arc n>ed in the second ]>hu;e they are followed by tlio word? j'.'iiitly and separately '. !Mij. IJiv.ii'AS : — J3ei:;in.-e jointly and .separately had been expressly held to mean all or one. The cai-e in Mners Ahriayvienf\ii cited by Mr. "WiHiams. "If a letter o"" uttonioy to make livery of sch^in conjimction d division be made to three, and tvvu <>f them make livery, the third beijig absent, it if^ not good for it !-'. not ct))i'iu:,-'tlf,,\ nor //ivixion.'' May T call your Lordship's attention to what was laid duwii in this ease in tlie'itli Hcrniirall and Aide i{«>n,hy Jiief Justice .'Vbbotr. "Tlie law uiidonbtedly is as sr.ited by Mr. Williams, but we are not disposed to extend the rule further." Then lie says "The argument is that the latter worcis only apply tr. the persons who are to exercise the discretion that would have been quite Correct if this had been different from the persons entrusted with the power. liut they are the same ; those latter words, therefore, control the meaning of the former and the verdict is right." That is a case illustrating that the law has al- w-iys held strictly to the enforcing the exact terms of the power and that it was held that two could not in tlie absence of the third, even in that case, act. Then, my Lords, your Lordships will remember that in Grindiey v. Barler, in 1 Bosdiujnd aud J^uller, page '22it, it was expressly held that the whole number having met foi- tiie purpo.'^e of trying, the trial was good because the majority then inclnded rlie minority and made it a judgment of the whole. Your Lordshii'3 will reiiieiiil}(;r that the Chief .lusticc there pointed out that the six triers heinir made up of representatives of three diU'erent ])arties, there would be good ground for an arguruent that they must be unanimous, except for the fact that the matter could be accounted for by their all being obliged to be present, and ho held that where tlieie were represi'iitatives of three parties, though it was obvious from the terms of tin; .\et of Parliaimiit that something nui.^-t lie intuiuhid on behalf of all tliref!, th'i' as il eoidd not be inter|ti('tc(I as neces^;arily jequiring the presence ol the wlio!(.v-i.v, then the fi'iic interjtrotatioii of the Act of Parliament would be tL.tt the whole six oai'-t be unanimous. .">MM*^'«y?<»fTI»»»!|1if!VW I • 1 » »l JH ' W i .WH »^ WI '- ice, viz : that the judgment of four out of six being the whole body to whom the authority is delegated regularly asj-embled and acting is the judgment of all. LoKD Sti.iiOKNK : — It does r.ot say that at every meeting they must all be present. Mr Bomi'as : — As T undoistund it, that is the very gist of his judgment. Lord Sm.iiounk:— The words have l)ceu rea'l, "all six must undoubtedly try," but I do not know, that that necessarily means that having acted, they must attend every meeting. Ml'.. BoMrAs:— The Chief Justice says: "The true question in this case lies in a very narrow compass. It is this: What is the operation in law of a judg- ment of four out of six triers, six being Mie number constituted to be the triers, and the si.x being assembled to enquire and try whether it is to be deemed the finding and judgment of the body or merely the finding and judgment of the four individuals who concurred. If it is the mere finding of the four who con- curred, then this leather is not found insufficient ; but if the operation of law on the finding of the four who are the majority of the l)ody duly assembled be that their judgment is the judgment of the whole, and therefore the judgment of the triers, then the leather must be taken . i have been found insufficient, and the de- fendants are justified. On the first argument, I thought this question would turn on two general heads of inquiry. First, what tlio ^'eneral rule of law was in the case ot bodies of men entrusted with powers of tnis nature, whether they must ali concur or whether the decision of the majority would bind the whole '^ Secondly, supposing the latter to be the general riiie, whether that general rule is to be con- trolled by the intent of the Legislature aseollocted from tlie scope and provisions of this Act ^" Then he says that iMa^lnuch as the whole were present he thinks that that will satisfy the ti'inis of tlie Act wliieh ie(juireo them to bo appointed from three classes of per'^ons, and. tlKTi'lorc, if was net necessary to hold that when all wort; |>resen), they all shoulil cuiicur. SiK Bahn'KS Pkac'ook :— Mr. In-iijamin rcml fioni Mr. Justice Heath's judi'- i '0'\ - ■ '■ * j;^(yW?W ' " if ?^ WS! yg tT »' '' y '"'J ' " WW.|pi ' . ' i'J i . i' 4i,Wlf«W,l ^ !H i|| | j |l^^lj i ^i. ; i W >, ■i ij i wyy.j i ^ i ^wiyjyy tP ^i^wi^w i'rry' 5"« \(.>\> iiH'iit- : ''All iiuist concur ill trviiig, tim iiuijority slinll Itiiirj.'' find from Mr. Justice lloukc : "All iiinst try, Imt tlioy tieod imt all ilocitlo the s.iinc way." Mis. iioMi'As: — 'J'iiat i^ tlio last c\|))e?>iioii of Mr. Justice Heatli "All must concur in tiyinir, and tlien. tlioiii;li hoy bo of different opinions, some of one opinion, and .«oino of aiiurlier, yet all havinj;' tried, the majority shall bind." That is what Mr. Justice Kcatli f^ays. '""We shall nut advance public justice," says Mr. Jn.stiee Roolcc. ''by r^ayiiig that ihon^li a majority of the triers who Iiave had the advantage of all the inforinatiuii to be derived from the wholo.six who com- pose the tribunal arc of opinion that the leather is iin.serviceable, still any one man shall have it in his power to prevent a findin<^ by holding out against the rest. All si.x must undoubtedlv try, but it docs not therefore follow that they must all decide the ?i);iie way. . Each man is after due examination and enquiry to decide according t^ tiie best of his judgment, and the question is to be determined by the opinion of the majority. LoM> ."^Kr.DOK.NK: — Are there any words whicii unquestionably show that ? because it' nil six mnst undoulitedly try. they must all lie unanimous. Sru }{.\i;.vi:s Pkacii* k : — Thee an' some words. I think, to the effect that they mn.-t imve tlie opinii^ns of each. LoKi) .Ski.iioknk: — You attended a great number of meetings. Sn: Ii'ji;i.i:T P. Coi.mkk: — You road something to the ettect that one could not dofcMi. rl:!.' dcjisiun (if the otlier.^ by holding out. Where is that ? Mi:. i^'.MiMS : — Tliat i,~ in Mr. Justice liooke's judgment. Lui'.i) Sl;i.i:oi:xk : — Su|)pij-ini:- all ni(!t and cxcl.anged these opinions, the principle Miu: .all must tiw .nu ci'iitributo their knowledge is satisfied ; and if one cannot defeat rlie others by Inji-iirig nut, is he; to defeat rhe uthors by going away i Mj;. i>'i ii'.^r- : — I vras ijoing to neat that as a st'iKiratc point. The only case:? I lind co:-':lv;^iv-' with lesj.;'-'; to tliai point arc these; two. In the first case it was held di^ri;:';-iy ii, rlie case ■•' •■•irji r.iti'.'i.- that wIumc the co,'puration is made \ip of thicc cL; -,->.-, r!io mayi-i. alileiiiicii and biiiuesscs; just as this authority was nut'le n]>of an arb'trutor so ivalii;-.! fioin (Jucbce, Ontario and the Dominion — that the repicv'.Tit itive- of each -I'lC Kiaj.'i'ity of each must bo present, the mayor niiist be jTO-cr.', and tlie m ;.irit\ ot rla; aldermen and the majority of Ihe burgesses : an.', ii has heci cxpic.--iy held that if when a inoetiiig has been hold and the w:..'k l)i'::n!! and a n.Mti'in h i.- licii made and the voters have voted, and hefoic til'; n.-srill i.- proolainicd llic mayor '.■vr- up and leave- the room, it is aliso- luteiy Void. 'I'l'.ij 1. j;;i ('n.\Nri;i.r.o!: ;• It is like the case of a (l(!an and chapter, because he is the h<;ad o!" thsuairp'.ii'ation }<[n. DoMiw- :- -Not bii'itiisc he i.n the head of the corporation, but because he is one of thu C'.tu^titiient t)arrs, and if a majority tif the aldermen left it would have the same eilec;, IjOI:i> Si:i.!!on.\i :-- Ila . r yon aii) aiiihority iVir that proposition ? It seems to mo that that by no means follows. Siu .Mo.siAMK. Iv Smihi :--Tiie mayor is the sole representative of his class. If he goc- away his class is notreincscnrcd. Mi:. I'oMCA- : — ''.'hat, ot course, is my argument in this case. Sn: .Mo.N lAi-iK I'i. Smi! 11 : -'i'hcsc are not dilTcrent'classe; of arbitrators. Mi;. n..\ri'\s: -1 .-hotild have thought they were, becair-o the Act of J'arlia- iiietit so t'spii.-sly provides, as your Jjonhliip sees, that the Dominion bcL^'islatiirc pliall not apjioiii' an umpiii.' from < )Hlai io or (jiiebecso that there shall not be two^ I'nmi Ou(d)i-c or Iw" I'imii (Vitirio, showing that they treated the arbitrators ol Oiita.'io an ! <.,>\u.'l;fc a^ ha^ ui;.'; > ircial and ju'crdiai' cliaraidi'ri.-lics. Tmi- Lw;:i. Cm \Ni la.i.ia; : 1 1' _) iMir ar'^iiiiu'.nl i- rigiit. you niiHt sav af ll' 'v iiMi.a 'm' un.ininr.a;.-, b.aMnse llii^ one in ilic miiiorily ti'iii if iie siiii|il\ t:d;»'~ his hat and w;dks oiit oFlh'' room. master of rlie .-itni- ?'-'?'s*iiajy,->^^ !■• -^v ty,Li I * 'IV ':!•' ?■ I .V. »'.■-'■■ ! ■ lie I.' f, IVU i-; • • • (? «E'i s I • "it . ■ I'll' ::!■) ?*■•';■■ ifi' Mi4. linMi'As :- In uiio soiirfc that Is sk, l»ut it wmuKI ho a very niuch stroufjrr'r jiroecetrmg, I anprohuiid. SiippDsiiii; yoii ir.aku tlioiii uiinnimoiis, then siijiposing 1)110 of thciii (litiurrf, uuloss ho oh^o.-us tiv:,'ivo iiji liis opinion ami express uilleroiit opinion, which ho tliinhs is an untrne "pinion, no (U;oit-ioii can bo arrived at. That is the ditticnlty 1 apprehoml in the unniiiniity of a jnry. Yon very often now }:,t't no verdict of a jnry liCi;an.so the jury say wo cannot ho iiiianiinons; hut it does not ive follow that in Scotland, where you ncod not have a jury nnaninioiis, hut where ini- there must hi' twelve jiiryMion, if one wore to ho tjikoii ill or oiio i^otont of court and got away, a less nuinlK-r would l)in(l. It is no douht u great advantage in the ■J. sense of procuring a verdict that the majority may hind. Here, I apprehend, supposing vour Lordshij)s wore to hold as 1 should humbly ask your Lordships to hold. JjOKD Sei.uornk : - -A juryman cannot leave the box proj>rio motu. Mk. BoMPAs :— There is a certain amount of dilforenco in that CJise, but surely it is a diiroreut thing a juryman leaving the box and an arbitrator or person having autlioritv distinctly withdrawing liimHt'if altogutHer from the Arbitration lilt or Court .aid changing lii:i opinion sutticiontly to say I will assent and sign an award which I apprehend ;.i nut true. The LiiKi) Cuam ki.i.uu: — My observation is this, that if your view of the liiu actual bt)J;!y pivscnce beii'.g iK'ce:?s;\i'y under all circumstances is correct, it would bo just as ea?y to say at o;ico the three persons must be unanimous, if anyone witli- drawiiig liis bodily presfiic^ puts an end to the arliitiation. Jill' Mk. i; .Mi'AS :— It M(;v.Id not be tli(> same thing, because no doul)t it does render it in v\l' power .;iF ariv oiio poi.-oii luimod to put an end to the trial or arbitra- tion. Y'?t Oh rho other ii:'.!]!! !>y j'tvjuiring them to be uiianimons you put increased diilicuhic-i in tlio way of gtittiisg :i corr'iin judgment. There are three persona appointC'l i.y rUc Crcwii. It (.mm 'itrdly 1)0 supposed, I .-hould submit to your Lordships, i* was with ,i I'casonabiij .ii;p])usition tiiat those ])ersons would wil- fully and uf malice al'orofliought break uj) a reasonable arbitration, I should have thought it nio^t, reasoniib'e tliat tliore -hould bo a veto in cash of the Frovincesiii a case of th'-. .-oit, in e\tji.-ii.e cnso.-. Ihit if there is no faich veto, then J should have tlioiigiit your I.'io-iiips wo'iid have siipposod that a ]iorson pr(>perly ap- pointed by t!;c (,'rown wuuld not have lui-taken hi> intfci by tlie Crown because they are fit persons. One of your Fiordships said, at an early period, that we must not treat this as if tlieso persons wore mere individuals chosen by a private person, but we must remember that tliis is a proceeding by the Crown. If there be any exception to the general rule that the arbitrators or persons constituted can he compelled by mandaiiuis to be present at a proceeding of this Kind, then the only exception can be because these arc appointed by the Crown of England and aro executing their duties in Canada out of the Realm of England : but I apprehend it is quite clear that the courts of Lower Canada, if this particular person, Judge Day, is executing his office in Lower Canada,, or the courts of Upper Canada, if he is executing his duties in I'pper Canada, could compel him, a private indi- vidual — TnK LoKD Cir.\N(Er.rAiK :— Surely you cannot be serious in putting that, that any court could have made Judge Day take j>art in these proceedings. Mk. BoMrAs : — With all respect to yuur Lordship, I am serious. I confess I cannot see tho difriculty. Sir Mox:a'. IE E. Smith :— The only ground would be that he is a public ulficcr and acting i'\ h public oapaoity, and soj>)v/ifio vice. All:. BoMiAS : — Yes. I ant as>niiiing for this purpof^e he is a public officer. Siii Baknk- Ff.vrocK :— Which court do you say c(juld have done it ? JMi;. B'lr.ii'A- :- -The court ot Lower Canada if ho was executing his duties in I-owcr C.in.uia. or the court of ^iJiier Canada if he was executing his duties in Upper ( '-ii.'.'i;!, Siii MoNTA .1 1: E. Syrrii :-Voiir ariruniont is that there must have been a inaiidanins to Iictr. v.ut a mandanins to di'teiUiino and determine in a particular wiiy . Mk. Bu.">rHAs : Not in .' purtioulnr way, because that is nut necessary, Sii: Mo.s lA tIK E. S->iii7i : — lie niii-t be bodily present, though he might slnii; his e.trs and shut iiis moutli. Mk. B'i.mi'a? :--\\'hat I say is he is to have power of objecting to the de- cision of the t^tlier i ''.rsons, ai.d that procii'e. lings aro ntit to go on behirid his back. fcsc it V)y what is done in other countries. Su! MoxiAOLK E. Smith : — lie wutild have the power of being there and he cliooses not to go. Mr. Bumtas -. — Then it is to bo said tluit an Act of Parliament constituted for the prutection of certain public persons, because lam assuming that your Lordships hold that this is a public proceeding, because if it were a private pro- ceeding then, as I unde 'Stand, it is admitted that would have to be unanimous and that the award would be invalid. I am assuming that this is a public body, and then what I do subn)iL is, that Parlianiciit iiavinu provided for the protection of the public of Lower Canada, that one of the tril)unal&' to be ap])ointed should be a ptMson appointed by the('rown under the advice of the Govornraont of Lower (^unnda;— thr^t I'arlia^nent, theieforc, having given a certain definite protection to lilt! inhabitants oF Lower Canad.i, niiscunduct on the part of Judge Day cannot ileprivo thfiri of tliat right if Judge ] )ay will'ully stops away. Whether he may k' |iunislinble or may be indictaljle and may be suljject to mandamus docs not iiiatror;but tlic ]jrotocti(in which Parliament ha.- given t(» the inhabifniits of Lower Canada cannot l»e taken away from tlu-ni. railianiont has ;iaid that Lower Canada ii-liall not be deprived of this [)roti'etion ai"' s!d)jectid to extra taxation, except on jctrtain ee.ndifiuns I;vi«l do^vu by the .\ct nf I'arliument for the purjjose of lbs [pmtv'ction of the inhabitants of Lower Canada. ;;iid ihen it is flaid that liecause Her b'rsr'r!»rrfy«r'^y'!y ffl^f.:wvi» .rv«r:r;«5;a^.flf, \f!iTif»^'aas^-f^-*^t0f--V!f,9K^!f^^ ■nX J^l^f .:f:/^:::::^i ',.im: ;_V^ tir\ k'- ]trt ■re ["' liv f!y ire :it i\i :2f fj :^. n I; ',' » ^' lu,\ Miijosty, uinltT ll'O a lvi('(.' ot the (juvoriiimjiit, u|)puiiit; a poiouii u'liu ciiooses to iieg'lcct his tluly ami to avciil hciiii; pivsLMit ami taking part in tho proceedings, that therefore, the iriliahitaiits (>f Luwht Cauaihi ai'o to be say, if a q'larter ni the whole number have absolittc power and control over the v/liole affair, —and the cases go so fur as to say that in cases of that sort it is not even necessary to summon ttiembers of a corporation unless they are in a coisditiu!) in which you may reasonably expect theui to attend — of course if your Lordships hold that these being three persons appointed by the Act of Par- liameiit to I'trfnrm this pov»-oi'. supposing summonses are sent out, two of them c;'n act witb.i r.t any enquiry as to why the third is not present. Sujiposing Judge Dux happeno'i t'j liave a ln'inh-.-he one day, or hai)pened to be busy or happened to have s._:!ir occupation wliieli previMited him being there, that the two could proceed it i..r.:-e- - that is ihc- law with reference to corporations, no doubt— that is the Luv li'J dt)wn in Jil'id,' f v. JUizirrd wliich is the only authority which J. iuivu found r\'r Ics-; than the wiiole of t!ie nutnbi'r being able to act. Sip. Ki".;f,i:i 1*. {JoiJiii; : — AViiero is that case '. "Mi:. i'.-.A;rA^ : Au tl;.:- '.'tii P.arnewall and Cnvsv.-cll, page S51 : "Thecoiri- iiuilding au'i enlarging climvlies having, ])nrsuant to the statutes 58 [■.. 4.?. :ini.l .-'l* » i.v'g'e II I cap. !i() appointe'l t^i! peisoiis to be asclect missione!'- ; (ieorgc III vostrv I':'. : l:Hd\h:l !•. there mir-: pointmcnt. ing win V'j t could not !i' Lurd.-'hips ■■ I.' ;i''.- ,',;iii ':i;i;: '.■.L-ineiit nl a churi-h and all matters relating thereto, I"." to constit'iti-' a ;;o >d a-sembly ot the select ve.stry so appointed |'iv-t.'nc a Mi:i'>ii *'y id' tlii' lunnber. niimi-ly 14, uiuned in the ap- 'iicrefoi' ■ ri ;* ;i rile foi- tlu; repair of llio I'lunch made at a meet- '. ;t' U'jt siif i; a majority was illegal aiiil tiir payment of such a rate I' :efd in rhv iv:;rh siastical Courl." No. v. my Lords, surely your ■ ] bur bold that rbi.' fact thai that ./ v. Whltdlx r, and exactly Cases in lining su:oi.'-.'i noticcr wer' n'ujoi'ity, itli":;iL;' a di'i'nite 'in.uib"r. nni>l !)e pre had come, tiiouuii the olhfi'.-- li nl .-toppid away merely any reas >n wlH;e\ er, the rate made by tlu; Lo wouli Lordships a;c' going to appl\ to tlii apprehend e\' i"tly the saiiie niiy I the same of WUnell i\ (r'Ui/nin in the tltli Term Kcpr.its, page ;'SS which it has been held that tlu' majority niiyht ael. Sii; Mo.MAi.ii: K. Smiiii : What i^ WilmJI c. (ii(rthii:ni'{ Mk. lio.NM'As: That was a ease in which "a powei' to appoint a schoolnnister loan ancient roMnda'ion ^iven to the vieir and eliurcliwardens (of whom there were 11) aiid in -ioii and to icsiilt in tlii' d rn'i'i' r>.s\i)ii to the same vicar ;i'id eliiirchwarden-, to wIk.hii al o the geieTal jiowei' of m,;!i;!g'ir.g the trust v.as eomndlted, is 'veil e.xc'Uied b\ the vicar and a majority <.t{ the chiircliwavden.s, especiallv if stivdi an elei-tioii b'' :Mippoited by n-a^^e." There the jndgiiieiits rest or. theexpie-- pro\ i^ioll^ of i lir deed v,lii(di provid' d ili.it in a list resort it should l:"|il thai i!ir .ipiiointmeiit being by (he b\ I In- i'lteiitioii of the testator and held come, bad. to tin m again, and lli.' eoui: ij'iioratioii aiu tlji' iiiteiite '•'MJI.e in I'l it ihei'C : II o til," ii'ie,- ol lie- oei' till' tr:it:lor 110! ■' li:i\ ( if a leaj iiit\ h.i' ill I'Npl''- |.'.! oh e.i o 1 lu I II t'li'l n pn ' loajoi'ir \ ■i|| ai liouiil (leel'le he\ \\ei(' I I lu ic was no need that ■i"it, till' nnjo.'dty could LHf li 5 il«''W. i'ii. 1 '-* * *!*■ , I ' w. '• HH ' iV *^ '•■^iin''in»>'''i»w».w* ^' ' »i»^s»,'»f»..*«'> ■■•!* ■ ( •5s ir -A^ li: !t ! f^' ij* :< .V ^ i" > i MetmmslSSMiiaMiiiiifOim^ St it^iim trMa^Hsi^iiu^^ lU*) act as ii m.'ittor of cuurs ■. It' I \v ei'c rii J-'} Ml t(. tlu' Ainoric:iii untli(;rities, it lias beuii laid iJuwii attain ami again tlit.'i'' tlml tlm ineaniiiL;- of the iiw i< that the wliolo iiuHf: be prt'sotu whore an aiitlmrity is i^ivcii to a (tcrtaiii riutnlic!' of persons, and the exceptions are exceptions, as I submii to your Lortlrhip.-,. from a particular wording of the statute or a ]):irtienl ir wkkIhil; o r til ' du'„'il ;ni( 1 are not authorities for saying that where an aiithoiity is e iniiiiitti'd to three nr four then the whole three or foui- need not aet. LoKii Sri.iiouNE : — Siiudy yon eajinot say that so f ir as this relates to the .groniids on wliieli J{l-icl,''f r. y>'//.;'//v/ was deeided. Mr. .Fustiee Parke says : "I think, therefore, in all other eases the geucial rule of eonstruction applied to charters, whereby the King has conunitteil to adefirnto body the earc of execining a piiblie tru^r, ought to pievail.'' Ili'iv the trust, to be excouted is one in which the public have an interest. Tnless we were to hold that a niajoiity of the number required to constitute the seleet vestry sjiould bo present, it is possible that they might be reduced to a nuniber so snuil as to i)e unlit to manage the affairs of the parish. Tiiat never eould liave been tlie intention of tlie Legislature. Mit. Ij.'.'.U'As : — \ our L'lrd.-'.iips see the authority tlicje is tluit. there be so v in a i.uiioritv. 'J'lien tl inan_ because tiiey said tin- majority rire:e;.f to d leie Were le>s than tonrtee!i, an 1 thev held it bad nei'al rule was thiit vou eould never have less than a 1 :'.!) :iel. The .Vet of I'ai'liimeiit aiinointed twentv-six ai tl le ircn ruie lan.l i|oW'; iti :!! e;i>!'- i- I'l' d eorporari"; tuie a nie . were onlv no notio.-i Mi.-. I 'I'iie lahg-; argued WTi majority \. ediy ret'.: ' of a puliii- die' nil. a-i e\erv !■■•:;;■ IlSlstS v)f a i;e;"ai!i nuni:ii'i'. tin- i£r. '1 thai ill tin' ea-c of a eorjioration, where a |)resent to eonsti liat ;s tiir- rui. the'/ de niiii- , I, iiii]Mi',ty mil-: he 1 in riiar ea.-c. In | .f.ilOi.'NJ (•i:j'!:t |Vi'e-en! lie i.iMi'a;:! j'r • the Jlhl-e^- p mint of fact thel't •\vs thai tlie\ liaO iiy .-Kcli ni'c ill,;' thi- wlc.lc tv'/ciiry-ix mn-i lie present. 1 ^■ It i! thi- > : !ie prc^cn'. iiav'c \\'j\\i \\\v i.mgiiaLiL' went to tnat pom :i I'cir!' ncc to u\v- cireuiiisfniii What was tl he ticali"i m tlu' catni'i t: corp-i; .itiiiii- ifi.cial II 1 v,),i.-h I: \: I, coi'i)oration ^^dl t'li Or- l.oriNSip n'lei.-i to is nndoiilil no d"';ii; exteii'i tu the i-i tn..r 'lire Vi;ieie th" ma ]■ ii il y ii ;;ist be pit.wen t. It \-: a iIjIV mat I liiid .ii:a;n.- •Li i.oi:^ i; I- nc in tl'.e SI' ii.-e oi a;' oin h'-r ilh'i. n L'l im- >\M- a :-'iio\'.M r;il Mk. i; |\!I'.\S .■\ k'Hown rule that im.- l--- than fuMrt.^'n will di ^o!;!) >i.M;oi;\K. Iia: IS no t Id- 1; It is c.eai- that to con-titnte a i'uii:i:,'c there. In two |)lace; be .-ays si'lect vesti'v capafile of doing any ai' d be 1 .-^M.nrial that there should b ain, t: nie.-s we whi(!h su(di a liody was aiithor'zed to dn, it won present a majority of ihe number of twi-nty-ix." and hold that a majority of thr numlair ri.,n;itd to con.-.titiite a seleet vestry shoii be present, ir is possible th.it tlit>y may iio icdnced tn a number so small as to he unfit to manage the atfiirs of the piiid wer.! to liiiiilil M i;. l."Mi'\s ; e ii.i.-. treafeil Ihe •;i'!cci vc:'iv as a corporation and the ;ren oral niU% he say.-, is that thi- maj.n'iiy nl a coi'pcii-ation of a dtdinile liuiiibm' ^l )e pre.-en?, and eertamlv lie is .ictiii: Miliniit. coiitrai'v t'' all the oilier ca-av iiO,;l) Si I.IIOK'M :- 111 'J'Ik A' ".'/ '!,;t.il: It 1 ail 1 V the same foi II lion of Mr. Justice l';;ri,e i> : "The majmity must mci ! and the maiority ma.- Opll 'crtamlv c iiicir. .Ml 'Mr '/•/,• /i \ iii'i r. 117, says the wImI..- mu>i be pi'-.MCil. In 'In iii.-i lU'-t.inc'' the ( "liu'l ,1 ii wlwilc imi .1. I !• pn -eni, ;;:; ! then I'-M'' "i llic jnd;:! ; pi'i ,' i\p".'.-c'i in the s.'ii-e in \' liich the j'idgnic:if |ir. ,-|l,'' if..- a doiilif ai. '. il li\ ,-:iv;ic.'. ai ;m \ rair a majiTitv iiin;i lin-i.^ w:is ihat a maj irity might act it being a. .iiU;,. i.v.rr..!' ''I'l. ■ ii.-tM Mo;./ :-: •" \Vlieie sever.il pt rsons are authorized to do but when they are autliunVajd to do an act of a :)u!>.ii- in. i !. i'.:;!-..- i!elibL-rai iiui ihev all should bo convened and a jirivat J a •:- tli.-y !nu>r ;i jn.il'lie :. \rii:e whi.'i V'-> luajority 'iiav '>iTi:"-;.M : \ ! ! :• li;i !! l.ii incned. ,Mi;. ri'i';i'.\- :• - Tiie j'.;'lv;in"ul i> '•T'.e priiici[ial error assigned in this case is that .-fx ii. ••- ::- wi re :i|»!>i'!ot'.' I ! y tln' ( miit tu \iew the ro.ul and adjudge the dam- ages anri'.>;;'v live of then, ji'iii.d In the iviiort. The. .Act of Assembly directs ti;at the po';.''! -r.-t.'ining daiiii'ge by the living <'Ut of thi' road may make application to the C.ir.ri ol the County in v.liich .-ueh damage is susfaiiuid, and thereupon the court .-^h all .iiMmint six disin'ere-ted o.m' mus to view and adjudges the amount of ihe daina-.;o- so doiie, which, if .i]ppiMV(s| by the C(uirt, shall be jtaid by the (.\iinp;;nv. It may lie material id asciTfain in the tir>t place whether all the six per.-:ons appointed by the c.iinrt met and viewed the land. The report is made by ''vo of till n and it is not ccnleuded on the pai't of the Turnpike Company that this court must tak<; for granted that no more than five met and viewed, because there is id meiitiuii of nioie in rlie record, 'i'hey consider the proceedings brought up under the (kr''(>i->iri pru-'es^in the'sauie point of view as proceedings nnder a Writ of Ivror." Then he -ays, eiKpiiiy has been minh-, and goes on "I think it is consistent witli the sjiirit of our rule to make the eni|uiry and wo find by the deposition^ lil'd that all si.\ id' Ihi' per.-niK appi-^iuted aetu.dly im.-t and viewed the road as we- ci'ufe-sed in lln' ourt Ih.'Iow.'" 'I'heu he. say.^ : "The only point of serious ilinicMlty is thai the Aii .fijuiiv.- si.\ person- to view and adjudge the daintiu'c-' Niv vir\\iMl i.ni !ive n\\\\ ,iiljudgi;d,"' Tlnii ho 'goes into the distinction (if wriethi'!' il v.,is :i I'lib'ir ur a priv :ie matter and held ir tliat ea'^-e that it was a Muldic n;:ii!ei' ■nni lliat ! I'eicl > •! e .'i Uhiji'l'llv e.uild deeio'e. My l.M.'d:-. iheii i!i"i'e w.is ;i iM.,r in ■.vliich there \\i ''i t lir..' c;;na' coinini'..donor.^ ' there liiev heJii i.liat,a^ the wleile ! "1 met : " We aie v.arrauted in sayin^vhis WW I i >':l iP m^ ■1. -fiA ':/v^'^ ^ • ..A*:.:. :.' 'i . '' §1 I 1 'i ? ^V^..?i;£££^^(s^btJ&« ^Si^S£Si«^ rjatl m*^^ In-^ counsel li lid bt'Cn ho.stowcd and tliut tlic other iiK'iiihiT.s Iiad lieanl iiiid iipprccLatod hif» itdvice; because evi-ry udici.'i i>- pii'.-iimiMl \i> liiive done liis duty. Sucli adsicc is the object of the rule which ^e'luil■^^^ all to assuciat'\ but at the .-ame tiuic allows •A majority to decide.'' Ju tids cube there was an actual siuidug after tlic judguietit was actuallv .settled. The ea-^e 1 aiu imw lefeiritm' tu is K rth c. jweus Keportt, ] 21) />«, ■/,: /, nx/ers, in tlie Tilt; iiead note i.> : ' Where any uuinlx'i' of persons are appointed to act judieially in a puhlie inalt(;r they tnusl all Cotifcr, but a majority tuny decide tiiou:di the ndnority dis>;ent and refuse tube further coti -sidered tneuibers of the Uoard." 'I'here one of the parties, I think, reuuuued hut stated tliat he did not con.■^ider himself actiu:,'. lie reiriaiued in the room while the actual iuiliinieut was n'iven. RouKia- P. (/'oi.i.ii:i; :— Vou think that wis important hit, reniaiui U''- in the rooro, if he declined to act Mk. Bomi'as: — "Well, /'(> t 1, It is ])os6ii)lo after the wliole thinf); had been com|;!eled, if the ruoin had heen left while the actual si icu- id that inj; ot tue award was gr)in;Li' on, it ml^^t have neeii luuna'enal on the grouua that it did not infrii;ge tlie Tuiistance of the, matter, that is iU)t lliis case. SiK RoMKin P. Coi-i.tKii :— I only a.-ked the (juestioi lie declined to act i ?iIk. UoMt'AS : — lie declined tii act, and the court .-ai;one tlironj^h, (hey vuidd not ^^ive weiuht to tlie mere fact of his hein-- ;ibsi'iit, and I think they would have held if he had lefr the room, if I'le wiiulr .luitUT hud orcn pirviously gone through, that his Cib.H'iji' ;■ iii'i'Ie no diiU'i'i.ncL- : h;:; i undt-istMiid thi.'ni to have exjiressly held thatir would iiiV-.- bc-eu iin';iiid, anil y.ni:' l,oid.-liip.-> rcmviolicr iiiat is one "d" the special •jUesrii.L.- ;;-!;t'.l in tiris c.-.-e. iii:'io-~ ihes'e h.id hteii an express eonsultation over the wlivl.' .,•:' the uKtttcr boiji) S-i.Lii'jiiNK : - Here :;,ey aeied fo^othei lill the principle on wliich the awai' 1 was niade was di-rei liiiui-d, M.;. 1^ .>:;'As : — Ibr.dly t!iv piincipie on wh'.'h the award was to he made. Tiii; i.i/;;ti lJ:i.vNi i.i.i."!; ; 'I'ii.it i^ the diiliriilty \on have to deal witli here If i.s ;i^ ;.i;ii:5 an anythi'igean lie on '<\\v. iaee <>[ i he d icim.'nts that what happeiicd was tlii- : -Mr. l)inion of those who Cdi!ij to if, a rh.-ci-inu fu'iu winch he dilbiid. lie argued tha.t he could n^a cor.^ent or remain in a minority of one, and, tluivfoie, he saiu as there i.s no longer any chaiico of convincing my eolk-igm-. I will bring aiintlier hhkIuh ojiPiandi to bear upon thtun, I ~ha!l leave them and i'e.->igi! my oilice, and that, I think, will paralv/.e tiieii' action. The thing was done in the most candid and frank way. .Nfii. I'oMi'AS :- -( 'eitainly, my Lord. Vt/ar bord.-^liip se'es if Judge Day had been the ])arty ami was the person to lUifi'er, I am Jiot 'Toing to contend for one moment that the ahsence of a party, wdiere notice id' a meeting hail been t-'erved on him, pievouts an award being valid beean.-.e the principle of the absence of the party is that it is iiieijuitable to (iecide in his abscsuce, and, thei'i^foie. if you make it equitable by giving him notice, and he is stoppin;j' away wilfully, then the arlii- tration.i^ eipially valid. l!ut here i> thi' ease of a persnii appointed under the Act of J*;^rliament and he is stopping .iway, and the (ji.es'ion i; whether hi-; wilfulness ih to he to the detriiiien! of the partie.-, who, in thi- ca.-', are not the parlie- who appointed him but the [)eojilc of ('.Mnda who will ha\i' lo .-ulVer in their d.v\\' ta.xation — not the C'l'ow-n who made (lie a|)poinlment and, I hered'ore, the (jiuv-tiu:i is w licMi'r or not the slopping away ol one ni" the-e peiMiii--, lei, it be as improper as viii) i!';e, !,- to he \ i-l'cd.on llie.u. It is ipiite tiaie lli.il ihe prine'plc p''ii\ i-i"'i allv h.id 1. ...o '.:,irried out. \'oiif |..i. ,1 .hiii will renicnd' t ihit ilnt p!o\ isieiid ■ .i!'bili;!!oi t'C' ( Inlailii, ai'd. iKi .e- ■ef |l,c lli'ce. thai \:.K- th' ooinii'Il dee'sior was .against the e\]ire- e ! opinion ol i'l'i'e, il ; I'o! al all (leai' Ihai, th"'c..li in ihe v«>>t»M. . I »»» »; , » «» iyt, t jeMmtT'^nmm- .fwv .I'M i ^.tm' n*'^**^^ ^^^^-•»^lNl,t*^«/l'«»^«f'*»^yMf)^^'«ff^ > ^ . '"' . ' « '^ » y i if :ii;!^ ;it ir ciil ivei' The III It, v.ill Vli;iil jiie tl,e :.,ko :rhi- ■.■Act ii.lv ■!i..n loO settled, tliiit that would 1)L' carried out, being only a provisional decision. I do not think your F^ordsliips would be inclined to liold it as being clear that that pro- visional decisioti was carritvi out in full. But what the people of Lower Canada, as I apprehend, desire through ine to submit fo your Lordships is that there are two matters in this award of \i;ry groat iniportanco. One is, what is the principle on which the assets shall be divided, and the other is, what a)e the assets that are to be divided and what is their value. My friend. Mr. Ben jauiin, has already sub- mitted to your Lordships that the couimissioners, mistaking the terms of that 4th section, have awarded to us as of great value certain assess of no vahu; at all. That is a mattf^r that most certainly almost have occurred somewhere or oiher, whether that is the case in that particular instance or not." If you have two judges, one of whom is practically at any rate on behalf of the other side, and had no majority, therefore, excepting by yielding to his suggestions, if no one is present to point out the arguments in favour of the other party, it almost necessarily follows that there will be errors in estimating tiie amount. Certainly, my Lords, it would seem to be an astoni^hiiig propttsitioti if your Lordships should hold that because Judge Day was present just during the first meeting that, therefore, he was sub- stantially present during tiu; whole time and during the tinal meetings, which were three in nunibui', to draw up the report; which were meetings by special summons and not uv adjournment, of which no notice apparently wa-; given to him — it would be asconisliing if it should lie held that he had yet been substantially present during the whole time. I ^uhinit to your Lordships, and your Lordships remem- ber hcv.- tlu» quertiorn [mu it, as a separate question that this was emphatically a case in which, the third nucstioti would apply-—" whether after the subsequent ex p<.'vf>i he;iring before tut. .u-bitraiuis, in tlie absence of thy third, these two could Whether the wilful absence of the third can be taken wimm he uqn'csonted. legally roridcr a dec!.--iMn." to the '.iotriment of tiiose Novi-, my Lordi, for h'-rter or for worse. I v-^hould ju.st like to quote to your Lurd-i :]v-. if your LiPi'iM.iji- will iillow me, the deehsioii which expressly decides wliat i.~ tiic; ca-e ulsd'ir the uld Iioii.aii law. It is laid-f< PundeiinK^ Book -l. Title S, SeetiMfi lt\ that, according to Uoukiii law, if three arbitrators wore elected and uiio of them v\-a.- wilfully absent ho still lherel.>y defeated the arbitra- tion : biit tliat the(.'a!i")n law linding that this |)()wer was often used as a means of defeat'. ig imi)!operly, u'' if not u.^cl as a means of defeating improperly was tried to be u.ed as a moa!i.- of defe'tirig impioperly, held for the sake of justice that where one of the parties appriintcd wilfully stopped away, that the other two after due notice given to him could piv)ceed in his altsonce. Till-: LoK.') Cn.wa Ki.i.i'K : — J siippip^e the case that Voet puts is the case of a private arbitrator? Mk. BoMi'AS :~1 suppose it was a private arbitration in that case; but Pigeau in the French law, which i derived fiom the Roman law, o-\pre3.sly puts the rule as to arbitrators as being similar to the rule as to judges and says that in the case of arbitrators, as in the ea.se of judges, the rule is that the whole judges appointed shall be present to decide and then the majority can govern. Xow, my Lords, there is oni^ nthei' i[Uestion u|)(iii which T should like to say a few wo'ds to you Lordships. I do not know that T can wisely add anything to what T have already s\id on the other pari of the ease. "^'our Lordships under- stand my ]Miint, iuul the leiiiainiiig point really comes to theqiiestion of the power of I'evoeation in this e:i-;e I should sulmiit to your l-'irdshin^, in any case, whether of wilful absence, or even if your Lord-hips hold that where three persons are aiqiointed and notice is e;ive,n to llie tlir.-e, two tif tluun eau act without the third, that Gtill if the whole court eea- -d to e\i.-=t, by wiiieii I mean if one of (he pa.rties (lies or is lei;al!v and l.iwlully ih'prived of his authoriiy and po'ver, thai then ai, any rate t)ie remain iiii', l\v.> ciadd not ;iel. In tin- lirsl, place no tiotice could h.i id lu! coeM iii'l be iPiii.iii a (hd'aiilt, give.'i IM! 'L'f^ , ")i'>, Wl IK*", I.1 ■ P^sfr ''^'*^..r«p«wf^'*» '^'■?^-'iwwjwyT»»^ffyq<^syyyweg;: ; -1 cliiimt suy anvthiiijr about death, hut do you cotitcri'l iiinh.'r this cliiu.-i- oT tin- Act of I'iiiliiiiiitsnt th;it thu persoiis who are (lircotcfl to iippoint CMntinuL' tn lioM iiiiy Miirhoiify over tho persons appointed — that tlicy f';i" treat them a>; their ayt;iit- and rcvnke tiieir authority if ^fi;. liuMTAs : --I w.is unihn to piif it tn ydiir Lordships ill the alternative. In thf! tir-st ])huu I -ihouhl. with all hiinulity, contend that it war- a vuid appointment, and ati app'iintinc-nt levueaMe at tin; ])!ea Ski.born;: : — Tf thoy oiigiually made a valid appointment do you say they '•••.'iLi revoke it and make another '. Mi;. 13M.ni'.AS : — Yes, I ]iut it in the aUernative. i!ily first proposition is that when ars .\et of Parliamenf says thar persons .shall be appointed for a particular purpose that ti;Ht give- j)i'Wlt to the peisoiis making the a])pointment to appoint ■with a riglit of revccatii n. th.it the greater incliidos the less, and that in the aiisenoe ';f smiie expre-- !';'le *o tiie contrary the party making the appointment. espoc!ai!v i.*^ rhar )>M'ty h ■ the (."lowu in which ea.se the custom of the Crown to mak''; iri -s'i; c;!-e~ revi'-a'ole ii|)po;ii'-!i;f;ifs w(;uld proljably come into play, that in such a r--i-'- tli" I'rvu'rii'ie iiivioinlim'iir would lie gujd ; bur what I submit to your l.iivd^-h'.i - i'l tii.o .lite: li iii\'' i.- tliat if a iwotjabie ap|H>intmenr is not good, then the '.'1:' ■•• api-'intiix^:.:, (X'l'ii; ihe ic'.oeable a|)pointmunt has been made, that vour f.'jr'i-!ij ■- ciniiot cvii-triio a re'.oi.-al)lo appointmciit as an irrevocable one, tieotiiiL'' fiie 'jldu-e m; valid then I say it has been lawfully revol-eii a::d tiiar t'viv .M'l.inafnrs I'.iciie existed at the time the award was made: if a revi;" bie a]'[i..inTine;ir ei.iikl eur ])>• r.iele tlieu I .say it wa.^ an unlawful ap- point mom. LolMi bL'I.HoU.V. 1 \\ui i-(\- ail y power of revocation in the Act of Parlia- ment. Mi:. HoMi'.\s :~ Yes, my Lo"d. In;: Loud Ciiaxckm.iu; :■- Supposiiiix that under the Act in pursuaiice of the i42i'! section they said v.e appoint A. I!, to be on(? of the three persons mentioned in that .-ection nnd hereby lesi'ive power of revocation, what possible eflPect would that hav(.- '. " , ;.Mi<. HoMi'.\s I slioull have thought that it had just the same effect as sup- liiisini: f'lr exam]ile in pri^i'te casus there had been ajiower to lease and instead of a power ti) lease for years a grant al will was made. I'lii; l.'MMi (.'i!AN( i;:.i,"]; : [>iiTeiiut eon.^iderations ai'ise there. Ml: !*0MP.\- ;-()r ;r i-; lii:e the ea.-e, as 1 subnnt to your Lordships, the well known c'.'-' in Coke of llie appointment (»f the keeper of the Marshalsea who could oii!\- 1)1' appointrd (or life and the Cnnvu a|)poi:i(i'd for a term of years and it wa- lifi'l that the ap|>oiiii M'ciit '.va.s invalid. Tin; Lfj);i> C'li a:<'!':i.i "i: :- -■< )l 'Ul.-', oecau sell lere vas no a[)pointruent tor liC. ■ ■■ ■-'.■>'"j(S> *-■'■■ '■'■■ . '''.■7•...• 'ir^ ^m^ e i^' f f >^ r^!ffri.*!r*n--- ■ "<,i- ■■V-,'-, k.^. : ',011 , ire rvf. I'Mt, |tr:ij Irini:- lent I lent lie I' .•;iv Mf ' ill '111- N.:* It', tli- 'iiT (jn tij lily to a j ■''■: ruakii ij) an en I will whetl ix! of an "1 voker. M in exi Mastt 1' Uefin I'i refer being on ; h ■i: point :" the a; 1 there tlie 1 ■'■ partic to he iru |V0. lI'Mt I ,01! t ■vol- '•H'C :;!ar .'nt ■iif .::t. • ill •111' ■I'll ■1- * .l.u ''II'. til'.' an ■ ■'I ■^.\ ii|.. ,1.1 1 I Mr. l!(iMi'A> :---Tli('ii what J snlmiit U> vuiir J.ord^hips i- fliiit an rippoirit- inent diiiiii^ our roval pK'a.sine is nut an a])|)oiiitiiii.Mit fur iil'p. Tlie case of tlie jndgos is ii ca,-*o in wliicli fnun tinic iiiinirnidrii!, ]';iitl\ liv tin- comnion law and |)artly by usage, tlie (/luwii always niadi- ajipointniL-nt-- diiriiij; p!ea'~-urf. Rven MOW when the anpoiiitinuiits aro otherwise ruanlatcd, those ap|)i>iiitnients are made with a j)ower in the Cidwii at any time to afOt>]>t a ir.siyiiatidii of the learned judges who are so ajipttinti'd, and .siipimsiiio a learned jud:;e at any time in the middle of a ease tlmt is heing heard tenders his resiiniation, siieh 'jiidije, from the moment his resignation is accepted, cea>cs to bo able to act or to coritintie the trial of any case conung before the court. There is nothing in this action. I submit to your Lordships, :vhich says that thest! persons are appointed irrevocably or for life or until the completion of the work, 1 apprehend that the general rule is that appointments by the Crown may be made during the Queen's pleasure, unless there is an express provision to the contrary. If your Lord*!iips say that the words "siial! be referred to the arbitrament of three ai'nitrator,->" bring witli it the expression that thev are to bo appointed to hold otHce till they have made their award, then I apprehend it would also have with it the power of revocability, wliich is one of the special ijiidlitics of an ordinary arbitration. I sulimit to your LcJrdshlps you cannot incorporate one without ineor|)i. rating Ihe other. If your Lordships li'jld that this is a tribunal or a body appointed with the certain author- ity and a;>pointed under the Act of Parliament, then 1 Mil)mit to your Lordships that the tivdinary rule would apply and that the Crown, just as a Court appointing an oMicer. has the inhereiii jxiwcr to revoke the ap|>niiitinent of that oOicer ; so I apprehend the Crown, in wlmni the powttr of appointin'4' was conferred, would have the power "f appointing revocably during Her Maje-ty's pK;;i,-uiv and that it is clear that tii'.it is whit h:is licen done in the pre-ent cise Vonr Loidvliipssee it is not a meie uMiniportanr .-urplusage appuintiiig only during our lloyal jileasure. It may viM'v wcli liavc li-.'cn that tlie (iovcrniiieni of J,owcr (>anada would not have advi-ed the a[)puiniinent of a man '>f the character of Judge D.iy if it wau to be held thut supp'isini:' things went wmno- tlierc w.is not, a power of substitutitig for him ai. iiherand a dillV'rent arMtrator. I siimild like lo call attention to the very lust case on tlie subjecl. in tiie Court of A|)peal in Ijiglaiul, which has pointed out (in the ease of a private arbitration un doubts the dill'eri.'nce hetveen a .•submission to a particiilir ]H!rson, in which oise vvIkmc the snlnnisniou conie.s to an end by making the ;i'. ard or liy the re\ocatii)n of the paify. or any other reason, there is an end of the whole matter, ;uul a ca>e when- there is ;.n agreement to refer and th'-.i a snlisequont appointment of the particular arbitrator. It is the case of RcuK^uU V. Thompdon in the Law Keports. Vol. 1, (Jueeu's He.neli Division. 7'iS. I will tell your Lordships llrst shortly what the questiou was. The question was whether a'party could be stayed in an action which he had brought at law, because of an agreement to refer which had citme to an end by the arbitrator being re- voked, tho court below l.ield yes he could and that :?till the agreement to refer was in existence sufficient to oust the action. The Ccuirt of Appeal, consisting (.1 the Master of the TJoUs, the Lord Chief IJaron. L'>rd Justice Mellish and Mr Justice Uefimaii, held that the dk^tinctioii was this, that where the only agreement to refer was an agreement to refer to a particular person, that then on that submission being revoked there was an end of tin' whole matter and an action could still go on ; but where there was aii agreement to refer, then, although the particular ap- pointment was revoked or from some reason came to an end. tliere would still be the agreement to refer compelling a fresh appointment of a fresh arbitrator and there the action at hnv wumM still hi; li;ib!e tu be -tayeil. What f submit is that the 1-l"2iid section is merely aii enuctiiieiit tliat thcr-i; (luestiuns shall lie tried in a particular way ; but supposing the cuiirr fails in any re.~[)ect to be duly formed or to be able to "carrv out the particularawar'l. that that does in.it in the least alter or / Sili'U-i ■'r^'-'^!l««|«SP!*?'-«'i^^^^ >'•!"*/,■ ■ ■'^^•l*v:^ ■ ■.' i'ti< ?■'};■■'•■■• '•I l: f^?} 'C*,' ^i f^Sl « f 113 iilt'ect tli(! powers of ivooiistitutiiin' tlic cniirt ot' diU'croiit individiiiils, it does nor at all or in the !oa?t. alToct the duty of the pai'tios to provide for tlio further division or adjustment of tlie assets or at all aiVect the eompleteness of the Act of Parliament in its purpose. One of yonr Lordships seemed to be pressed witii tlie difficulty that supposing this arbitration and award were to fail, that that wonM be really a failure in the means of dividing: and adjustii'i;' the debts and credits. My Lords;! apprehend that that is not so. In the iirst phiee supposing you have got this time a bad appointment, because the Act meant an aj)pointinent not during' pleasure but during life, in which case I do submit to your I.ordships that it is not a condition superimposed that there is a power of revocation, but it is an original appointment for a limited period only, namely for so long as the Queen's pleasure shall last ; if it is a wrojig appointment in that respect, then there is our inherent power and a necessity under this 142nd section uf making a fresh ap- pointment, and the Govcnment of (Quebec is ready at any moment to appoint any one whom it shall see fit. Or if this was an aj)poiritment wliicfi your Lord- ships held was valid and subsistitig, then what 1 sliould ask your Lordships to do is this : Supposing your Lordships held tiiat the proceedings subsecpient to the time when Judge Day left were invalid on account of his absence, or that the final award was invalid because he was tiot only absent but abroad, as T submit, without norice, because there was no ailjournment as your Lordships will find of the 3?th meeting, [ think it wa-, — they met without adjournment and, therefore, as I submit, there ought to have been a fre-^h notice which appears not to have bc'Ti given. LoRii SKr.noKNt : — Aftor a certain stage in the jiroccedings the minute of which wo ivivecpies seci;i''fl not t'l mention the notice. ilB. H 'Nri'A.- : — I thinlc, as f:n as I can see, the notices are ahvays mentioncn when tliey e.vist. There were adjouraments on the other occasions and therefore, as has b'.eii p 'inteil out. U'ltiLC wouM i)e umiec(;s^arv except when the meetiii:.'' the ' ■ - -^ iidjournod Ti"! for he.iring the ])arries but o'dy for the meeting of the arbitraton. i.ct for i.;on,snlta'.ion, apparently by notice to one tii'ie (.f a notice to the p;irties, and I apprehend ; At page 4.'i, the arliifrati'i's auotlie'. and r};eie is nr) note there is no groi.n'l for saxii: thei'O was a nv notice as it is not mentioned. Loi:i> ."■•rLiJOR.NK :--l tliiidv you arc in error in saying tli;it there wt^re only tlic notices wliieli nie mentioneii and no othiu's. The cases where tlusy cease to men- tio- ri'itices are cijually aii[)Iieablc to adjourned n\r('tinu's and to others. th Mr.. IV'Mi'AS ; -That i.s o, mv Lord. Lord Si:r.iiOt:.NK : — \ on cannot ask us to infer wilhmit a statement one way or the other of the fact that notices alvvay.s have been given, whether there was an adjournment or not.ui) to that time and wei'e nevei afterwards given. ,Mh I)0mi'.\s : — I should h ive thought it was a strong thing to ask your Lord- ships to infer without any statement in the case tliat a notice which, in the absence of the atbitrator, was nocessary to make the award good was given although it was not so stated. It is foi my learned friends to show that this award is good, and if it be nece-sary, we have shown that our arbitrator war, absent. If it is necessary in order to controvert that, that llicre shoidd h;ive been a valid notice to I iin.thcn it was for my learned friends to have juit in this case a statement that such wa- tlie fact, ^'our Lordships will not assiiim^ anything took place winch is not men tinned in this statement and which is cssimtial to the validity oi the award. Loi;i) SiM.iioK.Ni: : You really tlo not see my point ; we are dealing with th' as a spi cial demtiircr. .All:, 11oM!'\n : Is it a other. It there had been fonic ^'i.'..;e-'ion in the ci' c a ''■^lit r> m:m;> I'i:\i oi k : - It i. iiioiicil ;^ft^')' \oii h;'.d ic\(ikcil hi- pccial deinin'rer '. .\ fact i- n> fact one wav or the otlici to Ihiv. it .slalctj I here !- ;ioinl thai one way tir the ionld have bcfi le was not .^;ui. I a UK'i'c tcchhicMl aii'lioiilv tn acl, If he h.id bi rn ^iummolc.'d <•►* ''i'Wv'^' yiit. Siii '. Iln lll>ii(J(! Mi;. [.■ir(|s!ii|)!i tlioiii,^Iif, i of the ciis fact or in; do ;ui act, ;it't is wii pojation, I ify, but w uhoio sole Act of Pa ceriiiin eiK present, throe [jei-.'^c third, wlie! ill liis abse case in Jin, tliat where act whieii ( Lordships, Parh'aiueiit .uiii'imteJ t liy uiic ijf r f'Miid. I a .''lont, liavif «.is any {n iiid e.jiiita! panie.s wild iM-e ill \vhi( Sii; ,1a Mu. li •Sii; J \ .Mu. i; iiy le.trned 'I'l aslv joiu' uid not onl iiiid t'videtit liiriit wi'ote 'SiK ,Ia: Mic. n notice that liiiii^i; they ( -rivM^'the'n ["linfiuent o I drirlicc. A;;MiM--,t tha ''!>', ei'niiient "il. (in the I 'V .Macj.hers iiiuj, still..- a' .'>— T«ni«'T'. 1 ought to point out to your Lordships that such ua? the state uf tlie ease. Tiie point, with all luiinility. whieh 1 do insist and rely ii))on is the fact or mainly tlie two facts that in tlie first place there were three ap[)oiiited to do an act, that tiien, with the exception of corporations, in whici\ case the corporate act is what there is power to do and the corporate act is ilone by the cor- poiation. but the voices of the corporation are by law, b\' the meeting of a major- ity, btit with the exception of tW(j or three cases in which it has been held that wiiere select vestries and persons of that sort have been appointed, or where an Act of Parliatnciit gives power to appoint a definite iiunil>er of persons to hold ci'iiain enquiries, k may have i)een held that a majority, after notice, were not piLsent. But the general rule has never been carried to this extent that where three persons have been appointed to do a particular act, that on notice to the third, whether the third stops away for a good or ijad reason, the two can proceed in his absence, and the mere fact pf notice is to make tlie two the three. Tliat Mse in Bosanquct euple that this is not a !i-o ill whieh this i.- ;; mei'e appointment by the (Joveinment. Sii; .Iami;^ W. < \)1.vii,k : -Vou appear U>v the (-Tovenimenl of (Quebec? Mk. lioMi'A- : -Ves, 1 appeal' for the Goveriin;eiit of Quebec. Silt Ja.mi;> W. Coi.vii.k: They adopted all thai thoir arbitrator did ?' .Mi;. Mo.Mi'.v.- : I'iiat 1 submit th(;y have not done. Voiii .Lordbhips sec as iiiv learned friend pointed (nit to your Lordships what took plae.e was this, and I •In ask your Loi-.lships to consider it because I think 1 am speaking of substance, ;iir1 not only of f<.r;ii. What took place was that Judge Day of his own accord, ,!ial t.'vidently without consultation with the (iovernment because the Govern- ment wi'oto to ask for time. Siu Jamks W. Coi.vi'.i'. :- They approve aftervvards of all he has done? Mu. lioMi'As: Only in this scn.se that when the other arbitrators gave notice that they were going to hold another meeting, they do what is the only thing they could do, wlint is "the only thing they could do, namely, they try to ticugthoii thomselvi!s. The (pie-^tion wns whether they might revoke his ap- pointment or liavi: the tiling held in his absence, trusting to iiu|>roper conduct for I ilcli'llCf. Siu .'ami'.s W. (Joi.viLK : -They prote.-t by the voice of the Legislature. .\;;iin-t that ihev say : '"'I'liat such re.--igiiatioii having been accepted by the ini'.einiiieiit of tlic I'luviiH'c (d Quebec, notice thereof was immediately given, to v.il, on the. I 1 til day of .1 iinc last tn the {iovcrmiieiit of ('aiiada ,uid to Messrs. Gray iV M:i('pliei'siiii : t!ie ( tiivei'Miiieiit of thi' I'lovinee of (.,)uebee at the sanic time |iiii'r-;ting agait; t any ulterio!' action on the part of the lirbiiratioii coniurssiQtJ : 1 ' I ■:.!i^lMi»mmf, < t' t ' Wi ;i «i ,>iyS^'i;iiw'iv, .v« =3 -I pi 3| : \i ■ i Ill w lii'.li ■.vii.-^ tliius reiuli:i(;:l iiicoiiipictc'."' Notwillistaiidini;-, bfiwevyr, tli.'ir rcpiL'? eii tatidii t!i(; arhitrator? wuiit nn ami they sav : ''That llic said pri'toiidci! award i-; al)?(iliiteiv illrcral, null and void ['or tlit' reasons liori'ird)et'oro set fortli, and als o ao liaviiii,' i)een rondereil hy two arliitrator-, who Ijy tlie resignation ot't lieir eoilcajiait remained without any powei or jiiri^dietion." Mk. Bomi'as :— i\ot 1)V the i SiK Jamks W. Cor.vii. <;v(natiun. lint iv the resiynatimi. tik )nt a n'sit;natioii aeeepted In' tlk-ii I.OKH Si:[,i'.oi:nk : — In fact, on their own statement, in tlie document jusl n ferred to, it ratlier seem< as if Jndire Day was foiced by tiiom to rosiL'n, l»eeau,-^e at paiX'.; 52, liiic 27, it is said : "The (•ioveriunent of tiie I'roviiice of (^nehoohave deeired it inci.inl)Cint npoii tliem to protest ajrainst his continnin<:; in oflice, that i.s the lloiKMirahle Johii Hamilton Gray, the Donnnioii Oitieer, and to express, hoth to the (jovernment of (Canada and to tiie arbitrators themselves, their firfn con- viction t!iat to carry out the true if. tent and meaninir of 77h' British N'^r'h Ann Dav tl ii A'J the decision of the arbitrators shoidd ! )c iinaiiimons. reti 10 mat .•r .-: -1 say that m ither of those were the ;i jndLriiii.-! niei;t ti; J.o!M> Si'.rjiOKNi: ; — I onlv miatit that on the face of tliei'' own dociunent it t!nv themselves wi-re 'vsponsible for the co\nse taken by their otH .Mi: lio>.i'.vS : — With al! !es))cct to their ollicer. Cfl'. liunk wlien vou coii>iili i iii-:e ''as! vonr Lordsiinw w lii 111 tiiv ms tractions are correct, tliat that rl, : ajipears clc;;r tii it \u\> protest - ot course 1 can only go by tins c th Lords ifiUl) np !eter: ;iri'! W' i.!f)Ul)l It V ;- a pi'otest I naui to J I .) n(l_::e a snii; !)av 1- inteiKii '11 S'Mnt' o[ d that tln^ foui't ;e Day as well as to t!i iiree onghc to act on th ' tho-r pouiN seems not t'> have disseii ited, li if iiii!;:';>ii. Mt. and that sub.^i'ipien it judgment i,s not t! ri.:.'.'''"0; 1) IV r. fhiiiL;.- do in tl;o:i' :ti' Mi; K,';'i;':r [•. ( ' inviTimtcnt, i'lit it wa- atter the suOse'iiiont juuu- :!c i No doubt as he h id resigned they did tlie i>e. i I'iit. viz., a* .eptnl that iv.-iguation. i.e.r.r ill I'xr.'i'e.^seii tl leir aiipi'iiv al of his coinluct ' .M Lord.h this <:• whom therci'i' oiiglp tl lik );. Ir.Nii'As -^1 tl i!!ii< t!ie\ Old Hot do that ; wliat wa ■ idimiitiiii;' to Voa; I.-, that (•von as-iiiiiiii: the ( lovt riimeut <>l < 'iielifc. hai ipiirove' tlK ( overiMien! )ueh(Ki W'Ti' trii- lor th 10 parties up. .ii ill' li'-lllt oJ this ;i\v;ild I'tM !l\- fa!!.. ail' ■i' It IS a case in wiiii'ii tiie coiidiK.'t, whi'tiii'i' of tlioir a ■liitr.Uor or (if their (io\'eriinK Kit til' ■ r to be v!.-ited mi llic I rovnice -tiict iioce.-sary Icizal etrect of i-c in udiich tlio parry wlio i.- pi unii' i.~ yi O to y )iir J.ordsl ■ilups can lo, that it is 11 ain or lose the advantairt^ "l a |)ai'tifi!iar ti'ansaction, ta a risk by ailoptmg a particul line coiuliict, but that this Kiiglish Act of i'arliament has provided not for the pro- tection of the Govcrnmen*; of a_N, but for th'; protection of the pul»I'(;, as the Lord Chaneellor has said the l*roviii.:e of (^''t-'hec has provided for their protection a particulai' tribunal, and made r,p in a particular way ; that the jiidgmiiit which is now given against them, <•!■ th" decision wdiieli is now niven a'^ain-i tiiem, is the ointi- wdiieli iMlv (liiriiu ler .\1 II cr .M ijc'ly s |ili'a-^ure that he t 'J"-' -tv I'Viii then hid th power, :n eiiilerei ipprehemi I his resiginf!' •vi'ii with tho.-(, w> but certaiiiiv witli tliM-n '.vonis, ti I ai'i'i l>t ; thai Her M; o \ \\\\\\ aecepti'd mii'Ii resigiialioii, tin inii \'.'a-i iioi- roll til iiti'd as rroiiii'e section, aic; tiiat n, rriiiiii.;il a ii'himin.ilion Ir, Hu ( ■rmiieiii m' t.iii. h" .wic.. v w;»gi y .Hi»->»M»<>Mftti j|t ii . «' ii j| ;y 'ii iV ' i.V. '''f re it yo: modi riiuffj •lisiiti (inoh then I jiiiblii kijDW With !ai;l ( r Piu-lia :ipf)i'ii (ioVL'i :\ T in t!ie Gray n.'-id'j i:iy>eit have ti fjiie'.:- a iM.i I'li will II, (ieei'ii; iiieiits (..,-,, i- Mn:i-va] lien [an -ii>n. 1 whethe stated i wiiijl; I I'.ay he it is int i-^ tlie ii Jn.it diT- t!n" o:i>.L in thi! fi th" ;.-cf, ni:, jiiritj tnr , m- 1 Tii Ih.' .\-i if i- the >. u >?Jir:i^rtS'<«^eV«A;ja(u«H«iJW ^•SWWflRPW?' mt 11. maku it valii], that un evil rii.-iilt can liapjien from yuiir i.nnisliijis aiivisit)^ Iler Majesty to i.Mvi' to rlie i!ii'a))it;uits of fjiu'liuc the protfction which tho Aot of arhuniciit iiitruilL' tl tl lein t>i lia^'f, )t on (.' aiiii trator Iiaviri"' heuii clioson bv the (iivveiiiinent <.f (.^)ii(>l)eo, Iichmmsi," it" von r J.oi'd.-hips hold that there was no power )f revouaticu uml that JaiUe Day. tiierofore, i.-? still personally legally appointed; Ik' in lii:^ at.'.seiUH itj had, he will i ni- it yoni' Lordships decide that this award, ni; uiediately ii" uid sit, and with the other arliitrators will (h.nv up a fair and legiti- mate award, which will ereat'i union l-etwut-n tlie two [-"rovinees, instead of lisiiiiioii ; if.yo'ir Li^rdships hold that us reiii;n;itioii 13 vain the (: jovernujon t of C^Uifbee are jK-epared to aiiU'iint a fresh arbitrator, and the three arbitrators would then gladly proceed, having the direction from your Lordships that this vt-as such a ]iublic matter that the majority had power to l)ind the nnnority,tlie absence of which knowledge Ir.is been to a great extent the cause of all this unfortunate difficulty. ^\"ith that direction the ar!>itrators would lie able tu meet and carry out the law fio iir Lordships, and wc should have an award, as 1 submit to your !al 1 down bv v^'i or hips. m irdance with tiic Act of Pailiauient instcau of an award which (Iocs not tu itil. .>s 1 Pari ap[>oii;t \pprelien the conditions which the very words of the Act of iaiiient sb-'W it was intended it should lullil, of being the award of pennons t'> p;\>ruct the intero.-i? uf the (rnvernment of t)nebe('. as well as the ei. Tovei'nmeii ( My L must be ?c ( )nrario. Oi^j-, r.U i\. e-e «j'!Oun(; imbU submit that the award is invalid and Tmk Ariwi:.vi.v-(ri:NK.i;Ar, : -May il ploa>e your l.ord.-hips. my learned friends ive givi.M tip the jioint that Mi. Jiainilton ,1 !, in the disi (-rray tv-idc f;''j! ! a.' i.iyseif to. I'.ii'. have t a ma ]'• by the Ciovernnient of rity dei'ir79^'>mfnf^-'^^,,^ ^■^saM stBrnia »4| , i' /i. 1 It) I M I. V 1 1 1 I ■ ; .N J v I .M r,.> r^it .\ I , -\ t'S, uiv l.nrd, liii; L')i;ij (,ii.\xii:i.i,oi: : - I iiiil arl)iri;it( li,i!iu'iii riiiK wnieii w 111 ii's were tiiKCii up iiv Aci <>'. I'iii ■.^ iv»v»\..iiMi *^ vio uin: iMi I Mil l^:-ifi.'ll UL:l;l^u:^^■ it \\ti:. ;■ *jUir.''M of aj^eiicy TiiK A I 1"K.\i;y-' Ikni liAi, : -There is tliis to he ohserved in the c;i-e of a private arhitiatinn. Siippusini;' a man ani'ocs to siil)iiiit a matter td arhitratioii and he app'tint^ an arititrator, if he t^ays I will revoke the autlnuity I have ^'iven. I will withdraw frotn this aoreement. TnK I. 'Mill CuANCHT.Lou :~-I liave ehanged my mind? Thk a I iKP.NK.v-Or.NKit.VL : — Ves. SiK MoNiAoL-K K. Sjinn :--In very eai'ly days death was a revocation, tlie death of the jiart suhmitting. Thr. A'iTnhNKV-Gi;NKitAi, : — Yes. There you will ohserve hoth parties are remitted to their rights. They have their remedies. They can resort to the conrts, and ri.ther a strict construction was put on tiie acts of jicr^ons appointing arhitrators l)v the courts, pinii)ly Itceause the courts originally did not like being ousted of tliuir jurisdiction and were ra.ther jealous of being ousted of their jiirisdictioii : 'iiir it ?eems to me the whole mutter depends in the case of private individual-i ^jii riie <]uestion of agency. So I would submit in the case of an ar- bitrator \)!e r Now, just let us consider how the matter stanos. ilM- p /.'.-,•.■'/•>/' A""/'//. A/it'/'/iyi A'i of 1.S07 was pas,-;ed for settlinir all '...da a'nl ioi ;!piM.iiiring the Donnnion (iovi'rnmenf, and iheii it [•,• •! :;t certain Jebr^ and ciciiits and liabilities and assets beli.ngiu"; i:- Prosinr-L's i'' < >!it,!iii) and (Jr.cbec, which were then constituted •.!;;••■■•. ,~i;iiuid !■•. divided between the two. Now, it was neces.-ary -■ •;):.' r.i make pi'i. vision with reference to the d vision of thc-^e pro- iiii; :':•!■. -. and the adjustment id' the properties and liabilities and • ■:;.>■ '.viv ill \viii':!i it eould be doiiL'. Xow, the Imperial Kegi.-lal lire ,.•■,,.:..;,,.. i',,f rliat, v.v.^l it make.- this )»ro\isii.)ii ; Tli;it tlu; in\isiiiu and •ill!! br made by tliiee ai'bitiaiors, oiu' to be chosen by the 'J'.ivern- •;■;;■.>, <:\[C by ilie ( i.i\ erniiiciit of (^hiebec ami one iiy the (iovernmcnt •^.n-cU- the |.e;;i.-!aTure intended when they made provision tluit t'ds the alTai! wa- neec jointly t' M'jiarate tor the ].i'j jierties urn! tliat wa- rli( does make ; adju.stmei'r iiient of ( ':: of("anad:> _ ^_ . , division a!;d .^d 'r.-tment t.f the delits sho'.dd take place, and if tlicy intendc.l that the divisii.'i ;in I the adjustusent of the debts should take place, it seems to be perfe(;tly ole. i..ii- that they lid not intend it shoidd be in the power of either or ;uiy of the ' i'lv.rnments to revoke the choice which they had once made of an Hi!)itrator, befaiise there is no provision in the Act (d' Parliament that there shall be any oth-er choice td" any arbitrator, or that there shall be any mode except in diis mode of dividing anil adjusting the debts and assets between the.se two Pro- vinces, and if the division and adjustment does not take place, uTider the provi- .-ions of this Act of Parliaim'Ut. it cannot take ])lace at ail ,lieeause there is no remedy to whi'I. either of the (Jovernments can resort. Their courts cannot take action iti this ciuse. Therefore, we have tins fact that (he only \;ay in v.hich tliediviKli.il ,iiid adiiistment could be biought about was by the Act of I'arlia- iiuiit, aiid t!i" Act of Parliament providis that it should lie (dVected by threti iiibitrator.-. Tl. ere i> no provision for any furtlcr or fresh a|)poinrment or any- lliiiiir el,-i-. I .-Iionld .-iibinit to voiir Loi-dship.-; that it is p(!rfe(!tlv obviou.- that ■' \v;.s"the ■■ • ^-^1 T . ;,• > ,.: ,r..:..: ,..,:.,.'; ..... rtb'eted Illti-M! lull I 111. • • I- W of the Legislature that this division and adjusiment should i.'i',-.ns to be (dioseii in the mannei' deseriiiL'd. and that ii Hia ''■i\ r I nai n. \ :ili llpp.lU:' ' .^ 1.- OH I 1. HI 1'.; 1 M u .' I I..' r<\ ol. < I r A-'"'.TW-Wf 'IPJ'WU*.. iau,!n™-»V^t>*P^.V«5»rf>-'^'Wfri.'«T-'*^*y '■ fJ^ „ {m ll jt'i J'/:ii i ; r >!■;.)' v' J tli(^ i.^' m Till, li:M;v-C-iKNi;iiAi. :--i ch) not see any power. The Act of I'ariianient (loe.s not say ihcy are to appoint tluMii. It doe.'^ not eonteni])late an appointment in the ordinary s.'n.>e hut it .-ay.'- the arbitrators are to he chosen The Loi:!' ('u.wcKi.r.oii; — They arc not agents. TiiK x\noi:.\KY-(iKM';iiAi, : — They are not ai;ents in any sense of tiie word. Tin: f-i«};i' C'MAN<'i;i'.i,oii:— Parliaiiiont inin'ht have said, one to be chosen by the Arelihls!. i[i of Canti'rhui'y. one to !)e chosen by tlie Speaker of the House of Cunimonsand one In- soiueliudy else ; but would these pei'soiis when they liad once iippointeJ retain any riiihts o\cr tlieiii, would they he their agents and could they terminate thc-ir uppointnient.; at any time ? TiTK \i i> P.yKv-iii;.M:i;Ar. :- One oi' your Lordships said if the names of these 1,'entienien liad iijeii iiiser"'-! in tin- Act of Parliament, if the Le>2,'is)ature liad known that Mr. McPlicrso;i was a man Si :,i.'i;:>i' .--!)ii \'>u say it v,(,uld make any dill'eri'iiee if the \yords had beta addled. " rliorun .m l/ciiiili of tin- (iovmimeiit of I'ppi-r (.Canada." Tui: A I'i' i:M-.v-(i!:.\; i;.\i. > X..i:ie wl atcvrr. It woidi] be a desci-i)ition of the arl)itr,it ■;■ o; nmpiri-. Sii: Mi.^'i .V'.fi: !•". Smi , II :--- ( )r laiiiiinated i)\' tlie ( to\erimient. 'i'wi, .\ : I liiXKV-lij.M,:; Ai, : -Simjily biwauM' ,lie Act of Piii'liament allows tlic (ioveriii!!:.';:t tlif privilege of iiniiiiiiatiiig ; but the .\et "f Parliament ('oes not luake iiiiii -w agi'iit of the (iovernment, and o.deed I do not conceive that it can be argmd. I d" not uiideisland my friend to iiave argued really and truly that these arl)itratoi\- were in ihu eharaeter of mere agents of ii,e Government in an ordinary sen-e. Indeed, if they had been, thi^ would seem to me, this would be almost, like a bargain between two private individuals. Supposing one man was • selling an estate to anothei and he said : I will sell you an estate, r.ot for ten thousaiul pounds, but I w ill si.'ll it to you for .such sum as A. P-. and C. D. shall say I ougiit to lake for il, and the other man says, very well, so lie it, I will abide 1)V the deei.-ioii of A. l!. and C. D. in this matter, that, 1 taki; it, would clearly not be revocable. Neither parly could revoke the authority giv(>n to A. 15. and 0. D., becaust; it is rlu; baigain lu'twei-n them. It is not the mere constituting of A. B. and C. D. tiieir agents to d > a particular matter, but ii is a term, the baigain betwcten thu-e t\>() indiviHwal.-, iliat .\. !'>. mim' ('. D. ^Iiall li\ the price. So, if we ])Ut it (.in thic- low gi'ouiid. a .'.•.■rouinl on wliicli 1 am not willing at all to base (lie ai'i^iimcnt, but it' i \\\v<' diiseii In I)a-c il ou this low giduiid. that this was as it were an .iirar':;;'mi.'nl b-iwi'cn indi\idu,d.-, nevertheless il is an arrangement for lixiuo lb;' : 'iKMiiii id' |iiii|Viiv wliicli \-.\''\\ ( J o\< 'r; i uicii I -hall receive or each !::i tl; m m m m f-'i;»l ■m *^**i'»».i .1 ': I • ;'■ si:: ^t. I 'm lii itfiii Wii»wi»t.»««>a*»n^ i jj W' i Ifraw ** j >ia < i t wb : ' / i ahii>M r-Jto"«"b' Waj^' .-j.iiJ I 1 -. 'roviiico -.liiill ivcoiva Docs ;\ii MiTuim'iniMif, []\nt that sli.i! divided, tliat tlu; assc's and liu'iiiitius and «n on shall la; divided liv tliivo |)LM>t>M*. and it would ho uxuctlv thu same in |)i'iiu;i|)li> as thi! illnshation 1 have just vpnliired to givo to your Li)rd.--hi|)s, hut I \vo)ild tar prufef to pnt it dii tlu- higiiui i;ronnd that we are to treat this Act of J'ailiannwit a.s tlioni^li t!ie names of these t;erillcnien, the orhitrators. were re^ul into it and it the names of these j,'ent!eiiieii. the luhitratort:, were read into it, it seems to nie jHirfectly clear that there conld l)e no po.ssihihty of any reviK-atiun, and I KJionld snl)niit t<> yonr Loi'dships tiiat it is ahundaiiti}- clear that the Le<^islature, dealin^j;; with this matter in the only wiiy it eould he dealt with, not having provided for any other means of eiffcting their ohject if the means they resorted to failed. .A\'hen your Lordships cniisider tliat you must come to the conclusion that the lA'gislature did not intend that tlio power and authority, and if it he a power and authoiity, of any of these arbitrators shoidd he revoked. Then, my Lords. I reallv (](.» not know that I can sav more on that put it ii])oii the intention of the Le<;i?latnve and the reason of the tiling po in t, T Then ne to thar ■vhioli was ap[>arently (Considered by the Governments or rather the (-i'jvernment of (Quebec apparently come to the cuiiclnsion, ])erhaps on the advii-e of Judge l)ay, that the arbitrators in order to cuiiU! to a binding decision n;u-t inj unanimous, Vonr ].oid>hips will find at page 24 that is the view whicli i- exi'^essed. Th it i~ after the majority of the arbitrators had come to the d-:cl-ii..n ii-< to the piiiii;iplo un which the whole arliitration should proceed. Then Mr. jii^ciiie. at the t.ij- uf page 54, presents the fniluwing memorandum re- (luestnig ■'J Hied Th.' ] r..)Vincc (I k>nel leiicc res)H( 'tfuil V ( cision no'V ron lui'ed bv the Hoitur.ilde .1 xct>i>ts to tlic de- olUi Ilamiltoii (4rnv .ind David Lewis ,\[i f tl _)iie]- le ar!'! t-vVl, i.t J 10 o decisioi! because th«) luhi Til Uurs, as not being a valid jiidgiueiit, not being that oil jc Sros wiiaf rlicir coiitonMnii was Tl us was th t'> Hi ;e p!incij)le. rhe docisiuii at which you have arrived is not valid Their ciuitoiuioii a[iparontly was that Jeci-!":i or all thro^ cases ju'eva t!i-. ■rovails gonoiaily, I do not say univer,-aliy, Imt wliich in ordinai'y wlifU LU'biU;'.f'>rs ai'c appi'iiiti'd by individual,-, namely, that the arbitrator- musi cOMCur, jirovaiU i"i ihi- aml M.at was llicii ground of objec- tion. No.w, my Loi'ds, 1 5,iy that ir iluo- not |irovail in tins ca,se, that in an ;i- fi It IS <;'oou -otiso ami it nxvui here :i!_;nn instance ii,y shuli [ wnat was The mtLiition ' T e'fectnallv, t'Ucrv v.ero no iiioa'i ,i!.-o lav." tlia t tl 10 (iocision o f th I e major- av thai >niiiMr,li.' wmcii underlies it is th IS, iiese luattiM^. wore to be lc;dt with :ind dealt with .f d eainiL ;thti loiu exco pt ui dor tl le provisions of an Act of J'aiiiament aiul 1 submit to \o;ir L'irdshi[)3 clearly that it was the intention of the Legislature that the innttors referred to in the ]42nd section .should bo dealt with by those aiiiitratois, and it would lie only possible that the ina tters shoi^ld all be disposed of in any event hy provid lUii' eitlicr e,\pre 2ssly or impliodiv that the decision of the majority should prevail. When they have pointed out no means for divi ling and adjusting the debts and credits and lia- bilities and a--ets, except the moans spt'i'ilied in the 1 42nd section, the moans of the arbitration, therefore, it must be obvious to eveiyhody that tlio Legislature intended that in anv event and evjry event the arbitrators shoiild be able to dis- pone of the niHitei's, and they could only be iid to tlisno.- )f -I'.ch matters, in any wen t and eVLTV event, if th initli, y...n' linio, will ■'Vliich ha.- le decision ol Mie inajoiity slioiilil prov,ail. this point tbi'ie seems to lie several authorities, wdiicli, in it; .'■•o.iie l.ngli-h aiithori;ie.s, and some .Amo'-ican aullior- The .American authorities ari' the most distinct .about i be point. Perhaps us of n mo to 1)0 dccislvi"; upon tlic maftor. iihvays proviclliij;' tliat the law laid down iii tlii.- authority, \vhi(;ii is a di'ciriidii of the Aiiiorican court, is correct. It is the case of i'j' parte Roiji.t--^ which my fricml ^Fr. Hompas cited to your Ijord.sliip.?, and wliich is reported in Cowcii's Report, Vol. 7, page 520. Tiii.s was a decision of the Supreme Court of Alhany. I will just read your Lordships a portion of the head note. '"An aj>praisal of daniai^os done I)y tlie canal, made by the two Canal Appraisers appuinted pursuant to the Act of JS25, is valid, provided one of the farial Oominissioners be associated with them in hearing and conferring on the merits of the (laim, thoMgh he linall_\ dissents from the appraisal and de- clares liimself absent and nut a member df the Board. Where any nmnbcr of persons are appointed to j^ct judicially in a public matter they must all confer, but a majority may decide thiiugh the minority dissent and refuse t<» l)e farther considered members of the T.^ard. If your Lordships will forgive me for reading a little of the judgment. I should like to read it, because it seems to put the matter in a very plain way. The court said, " we have looked intothe various^ statutes cited by the counsel f.>i' the relators, and find that the Canal Coniniib- siuners are tlie persons wliusu duty it becomes to pay assessments of damages oee;',sioned by either of the canals, when such assessments are regularly nnide. No change has taken place in this respect since the statutes of 1817, though several alterations have been made by the Legislature from time to time as to the per- s'"is who wore to make the ni'piv.isal. First the appraisal was by (/omnussionei"s under tiio ap^.i'jiutnient nf ihi> eouit, then by the Canal Commissioners, and linully, by t\V'.> p.isuiis appointeil permanently by the Senate, on the Governor's noniinatiuii, aii'l specially f'pr rhat nbject fob'' associated with a Canal Cominis- sinner." Yor.r Ljrdshijis see \\y>\\ very near the present ca.-e this is — two persons whij were coui!nis>ioner». iind rj.e third a Canal Ci'mmissiinu!', were to decide this i|!;e>tior! w::ii v.i\:;vn'je to the canal- nndLi' an Act of Parliament. This 'was by ;i:e Ai't of i-L'."i. !!i!ii.')' w!iic!( riic ielaturs -.-ought tu have their damages ap- p;vii.-ed. Wiiutl.vr tliev have b_H/n .-!!.ce('.--*fnl i.- the ipic-tiuii in controversy These tl.!f,' per.'..!'.-, t'.'.e (.'an d Ci'UJUii.-.-i'.iners and the two apjirai.seis, constitute a judicial b'ljy, i tiiii'.iiiJ appointed I'V I.iw. tn act in a matter of public concern in the. di.'ci.-ic>n of ciitrnvcr-ies or c.iuse.- of a certain character between individuals and the State. 'J'iiiit is entire!-, iipii'ieable to the i)rc*i'nt case. I should thirdc no one c'liild really :-.!.! M-idy di:-pi:t(' ili.it the arliitr.itors in the pi-csent case are a jndi- ci.il I; idy apjo-inred lo ilccidc ;, miitter of ])Mblic concern. One woidd think you coiilil iiave ii" matter niori- c!i:.irly of pulilic conccM'n th;iii tlu' question with reference to the prt>perty of Iwogi'cat i'rovinces in tiie Dominion of Canada, Thi;n tiie curt goes on : "This is imt then a ipiestion arising upon a private arbitiation (viicn the .hnU'^es aie eho,-en liy the parties. Tlu; party injured has no Voice in their .-dccrioii. In cii-e of a private arbitr.ition, uide.-s provision be made by the sidjnu-sion that a majoiity m;iy decide, the whole body must be unaiu- mous. Hut in regard to a public jinlicial body, it is clearl\ settled that, though III.! |)rovision be made giving a binding ell'ect to the decision of a majority, yet where they all Cuinene and aitt. the majority may decide, notwithstanding the e.\- I'lcss dissent of the minoiiiy. What w;is done in this c.i.m', short of that ? The commissioiK'r, one of thotiiiec ap]ii;iiher.- di-seiits and di:claie.- himself absciiit and not a iiieinl)er of the Hoard. lie had assumed tin.' tiiist deh;gated lo him by the I cgislattue, wwA had been aitlv-ly cng;!gcd in its e\e(;ution, as a mend)er, for a long time, .\lici -1 full iiivisligalii'ii he had, it is to be presiimeil, joined in ciii-ryiiig on tli" delibeiation^ of tlii' Hoard from time to time till the evr of the linaj deri,-ion. Can thi;- sMiipli' declaralion of absence at that point of time .■-■ibvert his <:li:o-,ii'ri'r as a im-ndier of the appr.iising Imdy ' \\'i> are wariMiiled in ^ayillg his coiiii>.'l h.ul been Iwistow ci], and th;d. the other niembers had heard .and aopreciuted ii'. I'dvivj, b"ci'i-v' e\ eiy olli, .t is pre-uiined' to have done his duty. 'V- .,j.-|y.-' l^, .',♦-■ - ' ,i '. ■•■ ..n.5j._,'>A. .-. •, '«»!»«fP!?jf,^f!^^ I ; ■• .4>'^t '■■':■ ■ ^fft*-*- ^••j^lilV,^ „.(.V^.^,j|p».Hl^^».~..^ , f t I m^ :ur I ) « ai ^ I 'JO fcjucli ;iut at tlio decide. After so full a coiiipliaiice witii tlif; .spirit of tli(j rule, we eaiiuot adtnit tiiat tliis desertion of the Board slioiild have the efTeot to invalidate the a.-?esb;ineiii. It is iiu more in ell'ect than a ceasini;; to confer fiirthei' on the (|n(sti^Hi, a point to wliieh every di^^eu'^sioii must come when the ar^nmeiiis for and ai^aitift are exhausted. The actual alisence of the dissenting minister then ceases to he material, unless his presence l)e reijuired for f ormal oruthei purposes hy some positive provisiun or rule. That CISC in truth deals with two of the points which my learned friend.i set up. I am cituig it on lliisquestl! :: whether or not in such a case as the present the majority can decide, Jt se'jMis to ine perfectly clear from that ilecision, that the majority can decide. As to the absence of Judije I)ay in this particular case, tliat is a different (luestion with wliich I shall deal in ;i moment. My Lords, there are .several other cases, some American, as I have said, and some Enj^lish., on this point. As I have ventured to cite an American CH.?e first I tliiiik I miglit ^o on with the American cases for a moment. There is a case of M'CiK'jiIi/ v. The linnrilinii's of (Ik ]^0(>i\, in 'Jch Sert/eant und Rnvde in the i^ ennsvlvaniH Rci >or! page I'.j, ai this is an extract from the case. It is in this way, "Wiierc a number of persons are entrusted Vv'ith powers of a general nature and all are n.•. 77c /,;h'iliit,in/.s i>J (ii'dnhij^ ill 'Jiid Ph-lcrinij^ page 310. there was .t cmmittec appointed by the town to procure a master builder and supcriutc'i"! the crcciioM i,f ,i mcL'ting house. ilcMthat w majority must be prescri' t.i tirm a ijiionnn, ;ind that the act of .i majority of a (piorum is the act of ii comii-.ittec LoKi' Sbi.iioK.M ;- -K- tiicic anything cxpres-id in the constitution of t ic comniirrje there as to the ijUoiuin or is it n ercly an Inl'ircnce of law \ TiiK Aiiiii;.\i:v-( i.iNM.nAi, : - 1 liavi' not nnl'oi tmiately the book here. Mk I5o.mi'.\^ :- Ileiv is the case, my Lords, :ind I was going to cite it as strongly in my favour on aimthei- point where it say.-, that three Itcing appointed to clioose the .^ite of a meeting hou.-e they miiht be unanimous. That is somewhat of a public nature. TiiK ATToRNiiY-(iK.M:i;.\i. : -AFy learned friend will look -A the report and I shall lie able to an.-wer yciiir f-ordship's ijiiestion in a moment. Then, my Lords, upon this point 1 turn to the English ca?es for a moment. There are in scvmal text books statements to the ellect that where the matter is of a public nature and not at all jwivate then the majority shall de(;ide. I will not trouble yur l.-oi'l-hi])s wiih the text books, but i will pass on to the cases. 'J'liere is tiist ol all the case of the WoiIIhiiii Ctilluji.. in Coa'pei's Ittjuirtx^ ^^ ''Vil There the scd wat to be allixcd to a certain instrument with the con.iieh p mimbc to bv } which iiii; of hind tl T ic'i.iliii: attUMTi ulth !\I dcciilo. CI 11 !■:;(> Si I II 'it r ;ir that r;a Moiincc tSi man hi defeat Tl right, 1 was th( the nil la'oisla -Thi- (k'cidc,' Ihe iiitc and al ca^cs d( missiipii ndrsion Iruiii t' tllOlll t r-»>.««».; '<».fn.nj rr* 1 >: V7.\ Oil Uioiii. r>t!t the Ki!it;'s T)!.'iicli hold be \va,> Icit oiio with tlic majority of fel- lows;, who u ith hitn ctoiistitiitt'd flio hody tii;U shouhl act aiiu a majority of sneh l)()iiy haviiii; \mKm1 that Ik- should atti\ the s"al. Ito was l)Oinul tu do so even afjaitist his own consent." Thu iiiajuriry in that c.a^v iiavl power to decide even against the will of the warden. Loiir> Si:r.iji'i;\K : — Tl)at wa.-; a colleiie uf the University. Tin: ATn>i;\-KY-GK.M:i;Ar. :- - Ves. Tlien the next case I find is T/if ^^?((/ v. Beeston. in 3rd Term ItepiTiTs, 7)\y-2,. The deei.-iioii is tliat the majority of chiirch- ward'His a'ld overseers could liiinl tlie minority. "Under section 4 of a etatnte which enables cliurehwurlens and overseer^, with the consent of the major part of tile parishioner.-, to contract for providini^ tlie poor, it is not necessary that all the churcliwardens and oversejrs shonhl eoncur, the contract of a majority will bind the rest.-' Lord Kenyon says tliis ; ••Tiie conitruction contended for, that is for nnanimify, must have prevailed if the L"i;islatnre had in e.xpiess terms provided it as it would be attended with tnanifest iueDnveiiience, tl;e argii.ncnt ah iucon- Vi'nientl ows\\t to Lave ureat weiiiht in this case when the Legislature have not so required it,"' Then we C'jnie to the next case of Witlni':!!. v. Guithmn, in the 6th Term Re- ports, page ?o'^. I think tiiat was cited hy Mr. lioii.pas. Tiiat was a question as ro the power tu appoint a scliou'niaster by the vicar and churchwaraens and that, it, wasdeci'ie.i. wis wcill e.xi'cuted by the concurrence of the majority especially if such practice ■- sanctioned by n-iue. Wlieii my learned friend cited thio case, a number of e.\ pi tsiii.jn^ hy the learned Jiidiics who decided the case were referred to by your L i;iJships, biU 1 tliink there was an e.xpression by Mr. Justice Lawrence which w,is n-'t referro i to, and it i< this: '•Jii general it would 1)C the understand- ing of a p!ii'! mail that wheiv a body of pei-Mtns is to tlo an act, the majority will hind th" r<'sr. " Till'!) ve e ime to iIki case .>f I iri ml I rij r. BarJii r \\\w\i i^c\\\i> to ho tlie h'L.din^- c.i^e uu the sid,>ji.-et in Eiiirlaml. That has been brought to your Lordships' atte!iti.in '•ever.d times, and I >iii'uld not be justitied in going through it again with any minuU'Ue.-s. Tiieiu: tlie ueci.-iuii w is thai the majority of the triers could decide. S(,:n( rliina wa? saiil nu:ing the coarse of the argumtnit and during the ci.iu'-^e •if 'liC iuilgiiivPt alciiir ali bi'iii^- [^'e^ent. and so on. S|i; Kn,! iiic appniated ro I'eal with a niaUi'r uf publie coiicei'ii, it is to be implied IroTii t'le .V-t o'' I'ailiamiMit a|)|io"iitiMg !lie;ii or fiom the instrument appointing them that t!te iiiajnritv of them mav decide. 'f;wT?rrt<'w-'''T^y-rTi-^'i<'<'py]P»-^ ;"■»->-— f tiio jii(l;j:i!i(.*iit in thnt cjimmiI Griiiilh}j c. Burh:,' rend. The .Iiulgus in dociiliiig tli;it ciisu refer to wliiit is the I;i-,v witi) rut'ereiicc to co'poratioii;-, and liken the case to the case of a corporation. Now, it is eonft:^ if we are dcalini; with a corporation, the niajority of a majority of a corporation assembled can bind. Then there is the case of The King v. Whital'd'tiwA others, in rhe"9th Barne- waU ami CW,'i:<. Tliat has also been cited by my learned friends. "There l»y a Local Act for drainage of a district, the commissioners were autho- rized to a.siesa and tax upon the wliole district such sums as should Ije neee.'^sary for carryii'g into effecc the objects of the Act and to elect assessors," this is the part which is important ''to apportion tiie money between the several township-, parishes and places within the district. Tiie three assessors havinj;: been appoint- ed, the three met to agree upon an apportionment, two out of thcthrec agre*', but the third would net concur." Then it was "held that the apportionment being a matter of a public trust and duty, an apportionment made by two at a meeting of three wab vaiid."' 1 think i; ;s in that ease where it is said that the trust being delegated to a number of persons, they must embark upon the performance of tlieir duties, they fnu;t moet; but it is not necessary that they should concui', but that a majority of them tnay ilecide. Then tliero is the case of Cortisv. Kent Watcrworh'S V-najyan;/, 7th BanycvnH and Cri^^>r.-/l. page 31-i, to the same effect. "The Act direrted that the comniis- sioners" — this is not quite so strong. I admit — '"or the niajcuity of them a.ssemble(i at any meeting, not })C'ing less than 13, might by writing under tlieir hands ap point 11 Tre-i-;u!v: Held ihixt an appointment of Treasurer .'-igued by a majority of J 7 cominissio:;ers present at a meeting was valid, and that it need not be signed by 1?>." I (T.y thi.- is not so strong, perhaps, becausi! the question in tiiis case was what did the Act of I'ariianient moan by using the term "or the major part of tlieni assembled a'. liuy meeting, not being less than VuV That perhaps would have been the question in the case, but 3[r. Justice Bayle}' in giving bis judgment .says tlli^ which is import-itit ; "Tiie general rule is that where a powor of a public nature is committet.' to several who all meet for the purpose of executing it, the act of the majority will I'ifid the minority and in this ease the fonrt:i section of the Act -contains an eii^^crment to that etftct." lie makes that deolara'oi; of the law on tliP aut!iori:y of Grin'll^-^/ v. Bui},-ci\ showing it is perfectly well known and uiidcTstiiod and recognized by the court that that authority was binding and it goes to this, Lliat in the case of persons appointeil to deal with a public matter there the niajoritv may bind. Tin. boiMi (jHAN'CKr.i.OR :— We must break ofi here but we propose to resume and, I hope, conclude on Mo' day next. (Adjonrne'f to Monday next, March IIM, at 10.30 a.m. ) yjr? i,'>.!*. ! i ' *jfJ S^ u};'. .ITDICIAI. COMMITTKK OF TIIK PRIVY C'Ol'iNOU.. COUNCII- CUAMI!i:i{, WlHTKHAl-r., Mondiiy, March lltli, 1878. Present — Thk Lokd Chanckllob, Thk Dcke of Richmond and {TOKJ)0^', LoKD Ski.kokne, Sir James \V. Colvile, Sir Barnes Peacock, Sir Montaoce E. Smith, Sir Robert P. Collier. IN THE MATTER OF THE ARBITRATION AND AWARD BETWEEN' THE PROVINCES OF ONTARIO Axn QUEBEC. \T)'an-^':r r T I Hill Hi-'SI'"rth:ind Note« of Mesura. Mortit^ and Meredith.) Tin; AiTii!'.\;,v-( ) i;nei:ai. • — "Ty Lord?, I was? eiuleavuriiif;'. wlioii iho court rose the citiiei- a.i\. to establish the proposition that in case;. u\ public interest the law was thi'f '.vhore several arbitrators or several commissioners or several trustees iiie appointeil. the majority of them may decide. 1 had for the purpose of estal,)Iis!iint; tliut iH'oposition cited to your Lordships a nnmber of cases; I think it will be sutHoieiu if i cite two others upon this point. I am now dealing simply with the question whether a majority can decide. 1 am not now upon the point uhat is the etTect of one of tlie trustees or one of tlu; body absentif.jT Inmscif, that is a separate and distinct point. Upon the <]uestion whether the majority CDuld decide, in addition to the autlmrities I have alread}' cited, I pray leave to call attention ti» Wi'kiiiftnn v. Md'm, in the 'Jnd I'l/rirJiitt, pafie r^W. The hcnci note is tins, or the sid)stanee of it : '•li^ndir an ancient deed in tlie time of Henry VI., hud was conveyed to trust(!e.< for public purpose? in a parisli and, inter (dia for the rcliei' of the po'ii' and payment of a school rate: Held that where the whole nnuilier of exi-tinij^ trustees asseiidiled to i.Iect a schoolmaster, the act of the tiiajorily is ti;, lie considered ;is the act of the w hole bfxly, for the trust to be per- lormcd is of a public nature." in that cisc most (d' the authorilies which havo li(;i;n aiivads ritid bi'l'oi'e \i'\\v I.ord.-hip- ncre cited. I.oKii >S.i,i I'.oKNi. : - Tfic uiicirine It a-- ok! as Lord CoIm'. i-- it nut '. y .i I:: I i:.i I nil , :■', ) 1 tq|j ^^ f^ ^ / »y CTiffy^g >^B ^|>I^ C^ ' * ^».•w^^»^w^c'^T)(^».<^>^ ■.•*;;■ ■f: I 1 '" '.'.M^'w L TtunmiMautijxaai'iiasii^ -iTiM^ti, 1-.H TiiK Aitoknk,v-(4em li.vr, : It is. In t'iict I tliitil: vnur I,nnl>liip will fiml :i reforc'tu;e to l.ord Coke in tin- ciulicot ciist.- The Lohi) CnANrr;r.[.oi: ;- h not Mftor all tiic (iilViroiici; hutwoeii a trust a 11(1 power that a trust is to be pcrfoi'iiiLnl strictly '. .1 a power iri not pcrforiiii'd, itj there Is an end ut" it. If thotiiist i-icrtaU'd it nr.isf Iil- i.'\(;entcd. Is not that t' dintinction between public and privi tuf TiiK AnoKNKv-GKNKUAi, : -Vos. Till-; T.opa) CnAMKr.t.oi: :— That which is done by a inivatc jiersun is looked upon as in the nature uf a dedication — an aj^'oney. Tnic Aitornev-Genkkat, : I f u private person appoints two or three per- sons to do a particular act. Sir. RoiiERT P. Coij.ier; There was a >tatiite in Lowcjr Canada, with which we have dealt once or twice, whereby the jniliics were empowered to ap|)oint tlii;ce commissioners who were :o assess tin; coii(j)ensation in respect of expropriated lands. Tliere was no clause in the Act to thcetlect thai^ the majority should bind tlie ruin.'ritv. Ijut it was never even contested belnie us tliat thev erndd. Mi:, i > , jOMI'A- -I.^ f y<."Ui: Lordsiiip sure tliere is no .-ucii clause l-C > 1 am inir iforii rae Siii I einory. I thunglit there was an express r un.-e >.ut; ;kt P. (. oi.i.iKi; I ihiiUv iiMt. If! am wioii^' von will correct luc lo nt Sui DvKNKs Pi'.'A'inK : — And tliey were to have the power of experts, and 1 ind tliat the inaioritv of exiMTts could act under the Coile. The coiinnis- sioner- :n tr.a 1 till' Code of r.owe Siu lloiiiur P. Coi.i.u.r: : I am siie.ikiiiL;' of the la.-t ease before t eii.se had the powei of experts iitidi rC anada ik; Siii B.NKXKS PiCAi.Of K :--It was an a.-.se>sment of competisation where thev divided the amount of eo:ii]ionsatioii ufter tliey had mn'le their award, after tlio award ! a'! i>een liomoK\:;;;red. .Mr. [^.yMfAs : — Thecxjierts are mere witnesses, iiur these other eonnnissioner.- iiad, iio d'.n'it. similar power- I will ijct the Act. Sill fjAKXv;- Pkacoci; : -I do not know that it is very im|portant. Tin. ATionxKV-fir.NKi; At. : -The e;i.-e I was abour to cite is Perrif v. S/i'j- wa>j, Is: 0' {n '''. f'.r ■•< Report.-, p. 1. The iieiu' note is this: "The ministei'of a di-- sentin^' chapel, although e of WiJki/i-so/i v. Maliu, to wdiieh I have already drawn your Lordships" attention. Now I think from tho.se authorities it is abiiiulantly established that in a case of public trust or where some eomniissioners or arbitrators ate appointed for the purpoao of carrying out any public mafer. the majority of the body can decide. 1 take it that redly and truly it depen Is upon tiu! (jiiestiou of intention. If the Le"i~larr.re establishes a public b.idy, or if the Crown establishes a body for the purpose of carrying out a mattei of piililie interest, and so on, it is obvious that as the Ijiniiies- in hand can only be accompli>iied by ihe iieisons who are appointed foi tiic purpose of carrying it into elb'cr. it mu~r ha\e been the intention, either of tie; I/.'ui-'atuie or (d' the Ciown or of whatever tin; aiithoi'ities may be appoint- ing tiie commissioners or the trustees, that a majority of sucli commissioners or trustCis fhould bind. N'f.w we Come again to the ipii.'.-rioi, ;i!id it ?eem.- to mo that this is really the last ipii',~tioii u|Miii wieeli I lia\e to trouhie your Lord hips, I come to tin.' que-tion whetli'.'i' if it i.s the law in \\\\- ca.-e. i l' it Wiie in b /I t)ie iiiLeniion ..if ihe.beL:.— Intnn- tint l!ie.-,e three arbitrator.- -honld lie appointed aiidtli.it the majoiity oi ' '°'^^*''^^?^ ?B ! B ? y^- ' * ' R' -^' '-* 'y ;^^^^^ i '.'f,it tlwiii sliuulil lie iilile til cniiu' to ;i tkici-ioii, ;i liiiidiiiL; ili'ci-imi, wlntluM' Hiev can lie |)i'ov('iito.l t'niiii ?u iliiiii^'. ill CMii.-i'fiiu'tUM.' ol' uiiu nt tliL'iii. .lu'li^o Diiy, 'K'NIkt atoly !il)sentiii;j; liiiiisclf, mikI ;ittoi' ;i ci'i'lMiii pi'ii'iti kicpiiiL- awiiy. Tlie fiicts .-('(■III prt'tty elutr. TIu; tliicc ;irl»itratiir- mi i^iiuilly im^t iiiid tliev (li.-ulil nut atiiiid again, and tlie (Tuvcinniciit (if fjnoliec adopted, as far a.- tliev (•oiild, lii? acts lice ii;^f tlicy rcviiki'd, or piup(')rt(;d to rcvoko, tlio autiiority. Xou', uiv J^jrds, my position to" lii'g.iii with is that under this Act. tlie Act of 1807, those tinec tiiliitrators ui-re a])pnintc(l and it was the iitontion of the I.ej^is- latnrc that thu majority should decide. Assume for a moment that I am ris^ht in that position. If that is so. tlien wc may fre.it this Act of Parliament as though we read in ir words to this eft'ei^t. that the arhitratm.N shall he appoinled to adjut^t the credit- .nii 1 in) li lit [(.■,- and ar-set- and -o ou. ai'.d tjuit a majority of liioso ar!>itra- tor.-! shall de:".de. We iii;i>r i,.--uiii(' that in fact the .\cr in ipiestion contained iiimilar pivivi-i-iiis ti.i the .sraur'j of ;)rd (i'viLio IV, clia[). 1 1'.*, to which my learned friefid, .Mr. r.'.iiiainin, referred yoiii l.'.rd-hip- and ii[> m which he fonndod an ari^nmcnr. Tii.it was tlie sr;;tiiru wliiidi piuv ided on a former (iccasion for an arbitration. X-*".-. si!pi)o-;ii^ tin. statufc di i jdisolntely contain the words that the majority si!ou!d decide, what wo-.ild fo!i .\vf That although tlio statute ?ays tliat the majority should decide, ncvcrrhelcss one of the aihitratois may ;nevcnt the opera- tiiiii of the -r iriue hy Minply ao-t'iiriiig himself. Till. Li';;.o CJi A.vi !.[.!.. .1; :• -Uf' may remain diiriii:;' all the disenssion down t(. the iiiumeiir iLu docmnc!;; cvhleiicinu- the (leci.-ioii was goinLr to be signed, then if he remained ■•! ti'c room lii- di.--(Mit would be unim])ortar.i according' to your argiime:it. A' •oKliii:;- to rj,,. ,,!l,er >!■!(■, if he go(js to the otiier side of the door lie de.-trovs the ell'ei.-t yi tin.' \/iiolc ilsing. Tiif-. At!oK'N"ev-Gi:.m:!;.\i. :- Such a decir-Ioii is .-o a.bsurd 'hat it cannot Ijc conceivcil ti, .r it coiiM l,,- .-eiiously coiitcr.dcd that \onr f-ordships could arrive at such a co:,(;ii:-:on, and imiccd my leariiii! friend, ?>rr. Jienjnnin, %'ery candidly con- fessed that !'.,ir coi;!d n-r be. leeaii-e diiiini; hi- arguni'Mir iipoi; ord deoigi! [V, clia])ter ll'.'. ^.our I,ord-hiji.- x'.'iil rcMeiulici' ihat my iVion.l founded an argimient of this fo:t iijion tiiiit -ra^iite. He .<.iy.- ••see when the LeMi-latnro desires to give a powo!' to tf.- majorirv.io deciiie lla y eaii e.isily do ir. wwd they have; done it in the ord (.ieor.:;e IV, ch.ipter 11'.', ;iiid bee.nise they have done it in express words in tiic third (ie ir;^e I \ ." Tin: I,oi;i) ('llA.Vi i-.i.i.oi; : -- What was that Act? Tin: A rio!;.M:v-(ii..vi:uAi. : — 'J'hat was an Act which provided for an arbitra- tion between two of these very Provinces. "Sly learned frieml's argument waslhis, it was not directed to the point I am now upon, but my learned friend argued in tlii.s way, he said it was not the intention of the Legislature that the majority in this particular ease should decide beean.se the J^egislature had not said •po. If tlu; Legislature intend that, they say so And then he ]ioints to the Act of George I\' in which the provisions are cerr:iinly mure elidnMate than they are in the present instance, and in wlii(;h the Legislatiir(.' midoiibttvlly do say that they intend a majority (o deeiile, but then when my learned friend was upon that point I believe it was Lonl Selljorne who pii; to him this very pertinent (jiustion. \\ell, but in that ca-e, the case you place bifore the court under this statute, could one of the arbitrators, if he had chosen t,i m,) away, to ab-ent himself and to say I will have nothing nmre to do with this .!• bii ration, could he h;.ve iiai.ilysed the action of tlie :irliitiatio!i alto.;-etl!,r ? And '.o : hat 'iiiosti'.in Uiy learned friend says: "If a majoi'iiy may decide. I a!;nil th.it if iWu; s1:!ys aw;iy hi- .'.miiot pie\ont an award. ~~"~^r II" i I*.. ! It I V, :. i ■'U m ",. - '.J!. -■'.*? tv?-'.-'.^-.//'***!' "' '■■J,'" - - •" -.■•'■ ., ._ ; "^ - ' ' ■■ ;. *'5* ', ■■-.'?„<. '■■^::^': ! ! ^.'P^;^^^ ,t'''l. [>- i.iki'M ;\^■aill.>[ iiiv loirtidl iiii'ii'l ii|>->ii thi.- |iii;ril ■\\in wiiicli I aiii (io;iliiii;\ niv I'MiiH'ii ti'iuii'i .I'liiii!,^ !iiiii-i ll' i.iit. di' cunrr. H.'imihi' ii' wit rcu! i;if<( thi.s statuto iiK' |ii'i)visii>iis wliich 1 siiv ;ii'i> iiiij)!ic'iicli i.-" the caHC riiL'ii ir \'.-oiilil !k iiiipny-ihli! l.p, onr c,i ilu' ail)itratijrs lo i)ari;lysL' the action of the ailiirraliaii hv ali-i'iitiri-- hiiu>oit'. My IiMiiM,:d fi'iou'l I'olt the force or rather tht; ililiiciiUy ..'f ilic |i.i.-iriuii ll! whicli '!'• \vi.iilL'fi!i> I'.'i'fL'oriy oh', ivn- that it' I ;;:ii J'ii;!ir in v.iyiiij; thai tlio Logislatnro iiituidcd tliat rlic majoriry of the arl.irra.tors in this ^•a^o should dr-cido, the reason m[ the thiti^- i- ;-,;t.ij,ethor apai.i-f ihv; i.dtinii n( otic of tho arhirnUor.s beiiig ahle liy idisliiiacy .itid he I'i- ruiiy a.:;ciiiii to jirevoiit any uv.ard Lieing iniide. It 'ovouM he nionstroiio if he c< uKl do .-i-. Then ;>p- ''^'i-iii'd trii'iids ii.iw referred vei'v eiii'.-irilw 1 must say, and not il^'iMi;' in:!fi; > ■ -• u p up:iii riieu;. :o -evera! auihoiiries iri' voimo authorities wliicli :;;i-tees (.r r!ie c pMind^-i'-.n'': .- or the l)ody that is to transact the oiisi !«•.•-■. '!■':'.„ •- •'id'hjd a;i') -i'..;:, [ .uloiii i!iar' tiiere are. in various eases e.\- ],i-.'--i.iir'. (>: ■:■■'> - 'i'; riat tii..' i'..;iiiri!-d.i;ii'i- nr the iMend)t'rs of the body that i.s to dei'lde 101..-: :.--t;i;'... :nn' cmU!'''!-. Tia.-i. (■ '.[Ues-jnos a: e very loosely made use of ani I ridiiA 1 >hd! .>atist\ yoiii l.ordshij^s fioni the authorities theiuselve:?, lui^^iirii and Aiiiei ieaii. thai tle^ie aiirhui'itie.> decide that it is not nccessar}' for all the n'.oiidiers if :ho h->(]\ toe .netir. All tliat is necessary is that ail the inenihcr', \' i " 'Miii-;. ■vith 'lii' nuestiuii diall iiave un opj)or!,uni!_j ( ,' I 1 . i'lti- Mli; ]•:■:,■ i-: a:; .inj.,) riu.'iir;, (d cspri'-ssinir their opin- Xov". ":. ■ J. -/is :rr.'i';u' ra'" ■\'\''r i'>- i.i-rtei in a -;'''ieral way and pointed MUi lu y...;a' I. , -i.'j-. a^ .•.•, ii a; 1 ,' :i a ie, inuv uicu-truus the conclusion is to whirh my ie ir!i>'.! f'.'iends irr !■> >ie : [. ;..!-:r;i-. to coi-ic, and iiow utterly ap:aiTi>t any .Mich ar;;;n, ■-■':'■ a- *::,ir uk; .■ \,i\ i..a> .'le.i . ri'.-.nd.s .-uhni't to your Lord^^hiji is the re.i-'.iii o. ' .■(■ 1!mi ieel in lUe e;i L am la Vv- u|i.. a-)ni'n!--i'.''!i'!' I :ei ),i' I , ■'■m-uIO^ 1 I) a (''W ca.scs on the sub- 111 I//'/ /I •ii'ur. n hi'ie is souiethiiii: said uj)on this poiii OKlli' III \'.'l:el aei' •arv tiiat all the trustees or ali tii 1 loiu la'^il.oil; niijet and confer twuetncr, I. mn ut((vil i' ullci •Willi nd'erence to the tirsl (picstion 1 think it now pretty well established that diere a ininibei t)f jicrsons are so trusted with powers not of mere private e oil- lidence l>ut in some respects ot a {ioneral nature, .ind all of them are rci^ulurly as- .■^ettilded.the majoi'ity udll conclude the minority and their acts will be the act of the whole. The ca.ies of corporations yn lurtlier. There it is not necessaiv that the whole number should meet, it is eiinUijh if notice is i^'iven and a majority or a li'.sser number. accordin!» as the charter may be." mas incct, and v. hen they have met they become juf>t as com|)etent to deeide as if the whole had met. With a view to this cas(! tho^e who have met re-eiiible the si.x trier,-- who have auliioriiy Id deei Ie and then a (|Ue>tion lu the\ mav act when thev haM' nut. Therefore, what the ('hicf du^liee f-ays !.■- that this ease with whieh he is dealin;.r. that is the case ifiiiii itf ihii.c wll I h,i\i' inel in tiie e!|..,' (d the (Ml pnratii .n. .\ti. ^ < . 1 .- 1 i; \i I' . It is eiiiiHi^'h it n.'tiee :e liiveli ;:!iM inaj. "v or • mntitfttfw^^i •;jw,'»-T»ifT . »» n rii i wi *;'. i ' r 'i ' i .p w s i w »» - ^ lw u'. '»^)y>ff^"T^ll^^^y'lrs^,f^^^^^^y^TT*'T''^'TT'*'1'!^* ■ •. '^1 1,4.' "<• , ; i I ,1 I I le--i;r iiiiiiibcr rill. V licccune Siii Mon' 'i'liK An ie,-cnihl«; the j ImlTlO savs "i: i .(.' c*a-^(; in _I iimi'h convers 'iKi joiitv of p( will he the aei jMOW thi'.t the case ot' a oor|)i iect, hilt i thi Well, tile ;'tn JJii.)'7ifnii't) ,-iiiiiers were a -li'.'iild he liect Ai;t t.ii!\.:vt(ii.! t lidM the iiiiiijt ' 'lisrrict. The'i [."i\ :!j'l"ii;;t .''.>i-e.— ;i. 'Ml.' aiiiliCii'iry ■. ;u'! ul' rile j.i :;:;■ verv eii'l. ■ TufirL-r. !eri, „!';• ::•:■.'(,': -arv :!;;"■ ■'.l rlie ti'iiv" I,' ;;;y fa^nnr. [J viivtlKT ■: w,- iliey !=ii<.i'iM ail !;uet, eoii-iii'- j ■,,|^, .,,,., ,.,,,!'-, .: ro.i;ii;,;ih|i.' (•>, xriaiiil',- ,1 iiNi ■ - :; ill. ' 1 lii.'ia* !,.; Ojiniiii :■• liii' ,! ii;;;le. '\\\i. AlT'il .'III: tn eiiil, 'I'll'' l,';i;ii \':.\w. 'J in.' At mi M(> ^•A<^^ iippti r • iu;re\e;' tlit;v lliei'e \\M.- iii'^ ii -u! rioiii'o aiHJ il.j'iiir'U'il froii "'V 111' lh(! d.i\- .1 -;!'i'iii(Mir rlia' ll \,<)\\\< ISkmi )'ii;(, a;i(] r.'iai t;««j».Tfrw.^(|Hj,Tj««wn r"-" j--ii.ir 121 miiiil)er, aci'iji'.liii^ as the clnrt'jr tii ly !>.■, m ij iiiicfc uiid wlieii tlioy liavu met till. V hecomo just uf coiDpotoiit to detjide a-j it tlio wliolo liad met. Sir Mom'agli: K. Smiiii : — That is a ciise of a corporation. Til 10 Attorn Kv-G i:.N' iciiA r> : — With a view to this oa.se tlioso who have met :c.-t:mhh.' the six triers who have aiuho! itv lu deci(U\ Ko diniht it is as Lord Sel- linrrii.' !-avs ''and then a (jiiestion arises how they may act when tiiey have met. 1 ,eeM-^i! in Adiiis shows the opinion of a gi-cut judye, Jiord Ifardwick, wlio was iiiiH'li conversant. with this subject in otie part of iiis judicial life, was that the 'ii;.jority of person-; asseniMed will conclude the miin.iity and an act done Uy them uiil be the act of the whole body.'' .Vli that 1 cite that tor is this, I only cite it to as.-e-.' .iir^! ■• w np.iii liir wiinlt,' diotiict t-iich sums as -li.'uld be lu'cessiry fi,)V carryinu- inr > "u.;. t'..' "lij^'crs of the ,\et, and then their Act dircvti'd tiiat •.'.s^•.^-surs tii'^iiiii !i-: c'.-i.-r mI :':;ii \\'.;'.[ the as-^e>-iirs should appor- li(i!i the iiii'ijry IrVwcn rlic s'C.i.i t.:\i-!;>:.;it,-. !.;il■i^!l ■.' and |.!:vci's within tlu! ■iisrrict. Then it war hoM lli,;? : 'h- i., . ;.irit\ .!■ the asM'>.-.(_)i'v civld decide and l/'id 'l'cn"erdi-;i .- iv- rlr.i! ir v,.,-. :i;i ,\\W.[ ■■.'■['■w inr ;; sipiiiiiainiis i:u'K;r an Act of P;ir!iaiiient, Ijy wh cii Act the C'.cui.iistionci's acring under ir wcic luthorizcd to :!|ip')i;;t a»f-e.--'.>! = ■'••/: •'* nn. and throe had bc^'i a[^pointed. Then he decides on iiic aiirlidi'ify '.'f ^r- . •'■/i'/ '■. /'■(■• i..~;\-i' anthuritv in ::;v favour. {{'■'■'•.■ ':i-;v cvi.'cnriy wm-^ a i'>»n-:;lt::rii n aM-pii:.'- fin- jiidivcs as to .■.i:.:thcr ■• V- :.•.'.•'■-• I'v I'-.ir ,,l| '!,;<■.• si,, .111, I Itl,-!. l'!;./ ri!(.'i..;i Wa.-- wl,, fhc'r ;iiey shv'dd all 'ii •(;-■': '!■■'. i^.o ■,;^•^ri..!| ;in|-,,r.'nily wa.-^ i,,)i: >vlici;:er tlicv ^-hunld itct, iMiisUi'' .I'li.! ''..i^'l'i'r •.•■ the vc:;> , nd ..1 ;■;!.' p."n!',ci!'ii.;-. 'c.r nimii that thi.'^ C "M.' '■' iilC L'<'..r'A ..m:i : . .,;,,. -.■.nuhl tliiiik ' -iciiilf, meet, liiit ,1. I'I.mSi lii'.dili.' (\.v. V. ; • I !. . ,'1 1 -i:l.;iii.-f \', ,;|| • :. lit. 'i!icnri,.n \'-:''f'i priM.'cd;. 'i; ■.-.iiy >>! ;:d .'■",rii!!i";it iihI ii' aH iircscnt at th ■r I'liii 1- ii'C I iiiccliiii:- ^f rhi ■c \v IhtIkt ir Mieie e 1 'n' illl iHil Khcn'. WfM 0^ 111 h IMC ail,' .;•>•■ ;: i!',;;le. Thi: Ai'.^'iKNi'i-', i-,;M'1;.m, ; -O.ii" \w>u'd ;!iiiil; ii w;i-".i;m- in.'ci in^' from bcivin- ■'■wil Xn end. Till" L'Mjo (.'ii ^ S' i.Li.ni: : In tic iiiid'H'' '>i a I'crlain meet in '^- niv.^ ini''''ht with- ;;.iw. 'j in-: .•\Tini;\;:\ ( 1 !;,vi:i;,\i. ■ I have Imu'sui! carid'ti'ly liiii ii;:!i thi statement of u' ca-c iipi'ii the i;uc-iMti uf iid'icc .iirl it >t iM)~ to in,' ]\>v^' ii;if this wa-; ddno, ■|i<>n'>.i\' rliffc \v:i-a iiiectiiiij' Ml' till' ai'bitratnrs niul tiirv ad joiirneii ,>,•//(,■ ///, , !;!i..r'" w.i- tii'tjci' i4iM.n to .fiidm.' I>,;y nf wlicii Hw next meeting' w;i> fixed, fic '„.! iioScc and wa- a-l-'d In attend, but .iftcr tic^ ITlhol' Aih.'i.-.f they mot and .iy)Ui":ed from day to day, or il' th.ev ;i'l j^ai iic,| ihcy h'.ved llie' following- •l.'V or theday afl'-r, or .sonicthiiiL:,- of that kiinl. aii'j then appiri.'iifls- then; i.-, tm •: 'I •iDciir fli.i' ill M i- not a II If |i„H '\i iSl'.Mi i\i.\ ■ u l»o:i 01. 1.' •I'i; I- Mostaicipi lit thai theie wa-^ nor nu'iitioric.l that rhrv did ad- 'O'liJi, imd fhiil ;• an ocr,\^i(,i' \ .■! \ i.. ■r!\ iir.".'.i.Mli:i!i' ; Ij,, award, I I I-' at pa-. •riimr>tn-r^yT^ilp(r.^^^»lff^-ytr'_-,:,f.tf^^ . il- »3 .■> I ' :ii ! I I'. Ii \ I f t.-i ..Cs.. J^ I {''■ > A- ■ ■'! ■ V 1 1 :^U ■■'1 1•2^ Till, A I ll!l:Sl.^ ' 1 IN 1 ;;.\i. : -'I'iic ^r;l;,MluMlt■; luri' sivin to \iv .~iiii]>Iy (;o[)ies of llit_; !iiiiiiir( -. I.i)i;ii Si;i.i;.ii;.\i: : — Tli;i! i-ilu' nii!\ ln'ciik tii;it I i::in sri- in tlio series Tin; A[T'ii;.\i;n .(iiAi:'; \i : ••Tlic ailiiir.itms me! (. rrcsi.-iit Ml. I/iiiLitoM. Mr. WmihI rc-iiuu'd lii> ir^iiiin'iiriunl closed it," and then lliiTc is iiotliiiii; more ^lid. I,OKi) Si.i.iMUM'; : — Oil ilir in'xt ilay Ijiit ii in t'.icl rlicy iiuier a> -;uo!i a-- limy possil>ly c:u» aftcru-.i !•(!>. TiiK All 'i:.\!:v-(4iM i; u. ; If it i- tuxx's^iin 1 in.iy .-:iy u v/ord its to whether •Indite [);i\ l:;id iintice, Ijiit lii- pu^itiuii i<. '"it did iiut iiiittti'i- wlifMlior T h:id notice or nut, if I c!!)-!- to st:iy it wa^ t tioii^li. f put an end ti> thi.- wliole thing I)y stay- ing away." Xow. my Lords, then.: aiv •^liveral ci-o- from tlio du'ci-ioa of wliich I think 1 may infer r!ii' r!h' p lint I i:a ea i.Mvorin;,' to m vki; i- a ^- > > 1 oau. Tal^e liie ease of Blfvk't r. fUii^itiJ. ;»/// linf i},-yr,(ll ^ 6'/v.n'.>i/6v//, S5l, uliich is a case re- ferred to i'V ;,'i\ h'lrned triond. ■■Tiic i-nmaii-'sioners for hnildim; atul eiiliiri^itii; chnrr'n.- !i..'. ■''_■. |.iar-a.ih" i"f.'«-i ttiii >tatiitf~ refei red. ap|>iiiiiri.'i.I -iC vier.sons to boa sehvjt ve-ny :'• 'i- r'i .; 'vu's' ,i;: ; m iiML;'i,':ii':'nt nf a ehiircii an ! al! nutters relating!,' theret": //■■'■/ r!:.'.r in .w.!.)' r.. ccHriraN.' a ^'oo ! li-.-c.a'.lily nf tlit- selec!' vestry so ap|.io;iirc 1 :'. •;■; !:i'i-r li • a 'iii' a-i'v ..f 'a.- ir.iaiS.'r, iii'ii'.\y I f, nam;.'il in the ap- poiiiMnent. ::■ i. ■ ::c:'d' av'. 'in; a laie !'•■:■ tit • n'paii of the ciitiiL'h made at a meet J!I;j: wiieii' !.":; •."-.' '. .- :"•: sU'/ 1 \ \[\\'"\''"' \\.\< ill'.'::-.\l and th :' lie; payment of such laft'coii!! 1 i.r :a- '•!i'"r'-Ld ia ^^l.■ K ■••Ir-M-tical ('ouit.'" .M .". •! usiiee I^iyloy .siys : •'1. ti'.L'j it f'- : '-' a ^.ai.i'i! v,:'--- ■>;' i I'.v'. tint when.' a puiiiif ir i-' i-; t',- he executed liva dciii,!'''- :...•..'>'..■: ■.'.' p.;--'i,-, :t :i;i'-' !'..• tweeuted hy a iie-'iii^ wiiere .i inaiority of riiat Mii..!.i.-r '- pr-."-M.;. uaiv-- ila'ie le a umi^-i: cv '■a-'nni to the contrary. It i? di;l a.'!.: ;:•.•:; a ri!,-; •: j'o'.v. ; of ^ private iiafnrr for tliat must he "■.\ii-;it''<; I . :;.! ;hi p.'!-.,,:: :,.\\'f-,]\\ iris liivi.'ii." N"'..' liM me draw your Loi.i-iiiii-' :.'• ;.: ■.;! lo uhi' i- 'l- ■ dcei-'.iii, A power or a 'liily was entru-ted to :'.') pi!S(i>, o. ,. 'I.lit.'tf I:', !i. '■•■'.■. and ill',' decision v.as rn't ihat all those persoiH lm!^^ meet ir't ■'. .' 'a ^va;--.; • i.;h i !' a aiij.i'ity (d'tliiMi: iiicf aad conferred. Other (•:is(..; o',) I,, .-!..'■•.■ ':..',t a !:;•.: 'iri'y of till ■\ liuh! hi/dy may doei,!,' the ijiiestion, Tiiat is a dir^tii'i ,;■;::, .lity i.u" ''.:^- or.ro,..;r'..i(! I am l.iyiii;;' down ti voar |>ord-hi|i.-. \^'el!, "'a ;. •;,!(.■ i- ala't'l"" •■■>-.■. all ,\aa'rican c,l~". i'l '1\ Pif],: ri)i>l. of II '/''//■' '//,.< ' . f.'',' i'^-':ri. !', ', ■"', Tiie :.-|iMii hti'iiis lit jiaee 7,".. The passaL-e wliich T wi^ii lo (■>'; i- 1' \<.vs'. '^i; I'oe |i,;n .if ihi- jiid^aneiif whiaji 1 wish to read to your I "I'd-!]";' • vv-i'l really i'.\plain wh.it i|iL'ct-e wa- .dioiii. The court says, at pai,'e S2: 'AiaMiicr e\scs?or received iiiitiee and wa~ ri;'pi(;sli,al to .ic' witii them hut I'efiiscd to do so. Whcrea !)o(ly or hoard of o:li;er-. ulierhe' c i!i-.titire I hy law to ptrforai a triisr for the piihlic or to cxecntea p e.vor or perheMi a dee j piv-iaah ■ I hy law. it i> nrjt neco.='-:iry that all should Concur in the act done. Tie; act cif the majority is the, act of the l)ody, and wdiore rdl hivj due notice u' tiie tini ■ and place of meetins,- in tho minner pre- scrihed hv lav,- ,f -o presc died, m- h,-t!ie 'ale- and reoailations .if tlu; body itself, if ihere be any, odierwise i! rci-eriMi' -iiMc is i,dvea aad ;io [)raetice or unfair means ant u-'; I to [preventall fi'im an -a Ihi^'.iad p iriicipatinu' i;i tiie proceed iii;;.-, il i.-> no ohJL'e;i.>a lliat ail rlc, meiiili-a'.- d ' not attend if tlieie he a rpiuraai," [ Lil:r il tha? ne i ,i - if t!ii' -t,!!!; ;e or tiic eli,,; laa', wdiate\ aa- if is, c la-titntes a ([Uoruiii. l.oKO S:,i.!; i!:\i ; — ' ir i iciioii'y of the wlhde if t'' ac he no expre.- ■;:.' )liori;m. Till' .A I i.'.e- I-.1 (i !■ •:m.' VI ; ■ ,\ mM."i|v woiiM hi.' loniin i! thcte i-: no .\i-r. ,>; ; c •f; ■' quoniiu. iirrcmiin if tiioiu portiiriit Tin was snfli Tjie iiioneJ, I coiiM CO friend's y when all i fer trotn Sinl aee^ors to The note Avlja Wfc! same pyi grot to ^.1 stance of ity of the inj ail tl: of tat! t: autiioritv itiirnc'l fi to i'.iVC iT'- will coritt and curif. : pllliliC'ii I! you, aiii dud^i'ij':':!. to.'s iron] clii:rii>n nn irig in tiie of tlie p! liiiidin^- Now, iny tlirce piuj to rovdkc Lcgi.--Iatiii slii.'uld bo to decide ; hy iibocnti Lo;'(l Sclln Aus::n8t th uiciit had I ppptU to liU "c tliU arbiliwtoi- llCC'lU-U Ui'i tluTi ro:'i', MK'L'tiiii; rip ,Su;;dMV, •*r*»«*«T«M-.rvi rj'.i quoniiu. 'ilii-v .-ay •■ami no practice ur unfair means ;iro um.;i1 to prevent all from arrcndini:' ami pirtifipatiiiy. it is no olijeetiun tl;at all the members do not attend if theie bo a unMrum.'" In the prer^eiit ra:-.; all three liavit;g had notice and an op- portunitv to ;'.et the net of the two is ,-uiiicioiit. Thk Loi;[i Ci!.v.NC!;r.r.ou : — In these cases wliere it wa.-; held that the majority was tinrlicient it must ue intondt;d that the whole body was summoned. TiiE Arioi:N'i;v-(ri':NFr!.\i. : —Yes, the wliole body no doubt would be sum- moned, but in tho.se eases it. ia clear that where it was decided that the majority could come to a decision that was bindinLr upon the rest and then if my learned friend's argument wore conect ho would say, oh I but tliose cases must have been vrronjiiy decided "because althouirh a maJMrity can bind, a majority can only bind when all the members of the I)oJy are summonel and meet and assemble and con- fer troin beginriint: to end. Tlia'' is my learned friend's position. SiK Rausks Pkatock : — What was the nature of that case ■? What were the as- uesfors to do i Tnic ArroNtv-Gt.NER.M. : - It is rathei ditlicult to make out from the head note what fii^jir eicact iluties were. "Well the!., ujv Lords, tliere is auuthe:' eiuse, also an American case, on the same poi'it. 7'/'.' Ptoj'Jc v. B jtr}i,:Wi\ 2Sth Dirbour's Kiports, page ;U(J. I re- grot to say I i.avo not avH t!ie-e reports, hut this is an e.xtiMCl, containing tlie sub- ■.-■.' : "'W lien a ["wer is to bo exerei.sed by several persons, a major- e n.ifiib-.'r riiiy jnoeeod to af;t and their action will oe legal, provid- Gtanre of t:;-;.' ity of the ww ing all tile ;i of the t:;~e authority o'. ItarriC'.! fi'ic:. to Irive g, he will COtite:;..! and cont.r ■;' plaiiicd n.y v you, an! i,e : dad:.{e':';i. !■•;; to.'s irit:i) I.e. elusion ntiJ s: iiig in tl'.e \'a ■)^v^ eenp'i -iiig the Iijilv are summoned to attend or have notice At. piaee of t.ieetiiig:'" Then again, my Le'ids, there is a distinct fiibieot and .-uivly that is reasonalile. The contentioti of my ijo!i)|K\=. ].'. :Me. -e my learned IVieiid Mr. I>i'njaiiiin does not seem i'n> fiiar iie-tiijii. my (•(.>»';-.•] friend Mr. liempas, as I undt 'ind, ;'.;• "i.-is. t.'iit if' theie are ihc"e arliitrators and it they meet toge..i?r ■.' -.rT'ler a eer'aifi tie:e ono nt' them says to tlie other, well I have ex- evs, I Ij.vt ni'riiiiig more to >ay, [ will not have anything to do with ••-.••.iiains oli?t!!!ately and itupioly silent and sits in the corner in iie dues sit in tfie corner and Ire attends every nieeling -if the arbitra- ;;,;i:;ig re ete!. t!ie m iji.)riry cf tlie arbitrator^ then C'line to _;■ t::e aw.ird, thai award i^ g^".,| and i)!ndinj; '. I ii 'N'C iJe.-er'Iie'l the .((bstiniiti.' member takes (1 .roes a!i' ^its in .'111 I'ooai. ■ iie» iv.iDie tlia;. al.^ siicii nilieiilous coneiu I con- but if instead of act- li-; hat and walks out the award is not in can be arrived at? have estaltlishod, my A-ernmont of (Jjiebec iiie intention of the il.e majority of them of the \y.M\: binding Is Now, iiiy L'.e'iis. .1 ha\H' eedeavnred to e.-fa!.ilis:i. ami 1 hope i three pruji'i.'^ili'.'ri?- : iir.-t, that it was nut cntiiiietent for tlie (ii to revoke t!ie authority of .ludge Day ; .- ■eoirlly, that it \\:i Legishitui-; when these thiee aibitrati.tis wei'e appointed that sht.'uld be able to decide and that that is the law that the iiiaj()ri'y should be able to decide ; thirdly, thar.Imlgi- Dayeouhl mir paralyse the aetinn of the arbitiation by absenting himself in tin.' way he did. He had notice, with tlie e.NC(>ption which Lord Sclborrie has been kind enough to jioint out. 1 think uji to the I7t!i of Aui;ust there is a distinct iiuti-'i' sent to him, because u[itu that time the adjourn- toent had not been made to a dcdnite jieridl. I'p to that time the adjourmutiuts pppin to have been almi -t ilc dU: in if'ri,.. 'J'liere i.- cei'I.inly that omi.ssion to e the da\ ;o s/hicli the adjournmeot tuok place on \.\'v. JTtli mcetini;; of the arbitrators. 1 (in not thi!d< y^ur Lord-iiip-^ will Cdinc to the conchi.^ion that, bceiiuse ii'ith'tig i> ^:'.;d as iM i he day to wlii.-h the mi't.tiier v.'as adjourned th;U, therefore, ll v.as luiL ad joui ned in the -.iiiie wae a ; tlie iitheT-. inijeed the next meeting toeiC Siuidav. i:ie tWn d u; .e OTuar^ [lie ;i.ler\ ei;i,e.;' o.iv pi-ob.dilv being liiH ! ,i> r'1 i-v.;? Ui . ,5.. '-^s^i-t^v;-,' A- . ',:■■,;■'•:'-■•■'■ .. .,4i^-».i>j''«i(«l'r ■ .. ■•■':.<••'.. .-1-'" .' ■ --vS.Af-X I. -in Lo Ki< M:i.itu);,\K -It U;i- Su. TtiK Anoii.NKvGK.N'EUAi. : - Welt tlini. ii\y J.Dn!,-. I li;ivr finlouvorod to ?iita!;lisli i!iy thic-i' prniio-itinn-. I hopi. i Irivi; (•sr.;l(!!.-l,.'il tlu-ni. It' I liiivo 03 tablisliud thciii a.'* a l'a(^r. 1 liavj lU'l'' L'llOlMll. Ir-.' lll- I t.il,- ir ir \< y.v.ih'C'.ly clea with tlitj oxcfptinji as to the qiiL'stiun ol the i'.-iileDi-'' ni' .Mi. liainihoii Gray, the (j\U'!;i.ioii3 which I have dealt with are tlie uniy ijiu-.-tiuii.-, wiiicli rhc Provinces in- ter.ilcd to ask your Lor(.lsiii|).«. Th^' qnestiiiM u\hit\ the resi.leiiee of Mr. Hamilton Gray is ^iriveu up hy iriy leanu'tl iViiMid!. Tiny s.iy M.itliiii^' ahoiit it and I say nothing about it. It seems char lievniid al! inuiinienr that iiutliiiiL; can he alleged hy my learned friends n|)on tiiat point. I iuppe VDur Lrndships will excuse me it' I decline tn w* into the othrr question.- thit my le;,i ned I'liend has rai.-od and for this reason, in is obvious on the tace 01 this case that i', never w.is the inten- tion of the Pr<.)vinco of Ontario or of tin; l-'rovinci; of Qm.'ifcc to submit to your Lord-hips these various qnesiions which niy learned friend Mr. IJenjamin has raised upon the award, lie has gone into a variety of matters upon tlie fiward, but sruely if it had beet: the intiMi'loh of the Piovince to submit any such questions as tii'-..-, tiiey would h l^c snbiiiir.cl tiii.;:n specili'.-ally to your Lordships and they would li.tveiriveii }■(■]]<: Lurd.di'p-- :. .-iircitie state: lent of the facts which your Lordshij,.- '.••(.■-.iid reijuiie to iij intoiiunl of, in I'ldiM that the (jue.-tions D.i'cht be niisr-d, I confe-s f \: ■::■:- iitenl ;o!;s winch n;y mi'l tiij' A :it.'Vei \',:i riieir inteutioii, aiu! the •■'•■• !•■■! !..! rei'er r,i \..,a ly pril-ihip^i was the Sue DaU.N"!--: I'i. -W li'i Vv\] .-:i\' as to "he |ii.'';Moii ill the Governor- in-Council ; Ti..;,". vm- .i pe'i:i :, piv-en'e'] bv Lowr ( '.iijiida to the Governor- in-CoiJi.cil ?r.it;"._' t!!'t 'his ;r,-,",i iv;i-: :u.J!i-: .01. 1 ilii'Li;:d nnr mi'v upon rlie i.vr<.'iiiid that Mr. .Iii-tii'e I'tv hi;d n,r .■;;; !•■>!. !m:i -.A-' 'iiMin oil, .i' 1:10;. nds. That is at i'aiic o.'!'. in 'joii^e'juence of ti -: |it,:i!i(.ci iia/.ii:! bi-.n pn'-e:iP-d '.o ihc Governor- iii-Coiincil tiiaf po;::; w.is ivit.'iTe ! to t'ne Miiii.-;i'i' '■! -In-:'!'.'. ::..{[ then the Minis- lOr of Ju'-tict' sn.r J,-. •-■.■! fh:«r ;; '.■;■,-!' >'m,;i!.! b,- -r-.:,'d. >::'.■ ly \..ij ciiriot say that ill tlui* ease rh'.y iir'Ti-Jed only r^ rai-e the i|iK--ii.in a,- "m ■■. Iiei li(;r an award was iiisd i;ir n(.>L in coi:M:|!ie;ice of ih'' nnii aiteml iocl', b"f iu-v ai pauc oo they went into the whwle e. ;,-,•. Till': Lfii:u Cii.WiKi.i.oi; :■ .\t piLic ■'■> t!u;\ .illeue ci'ftiiiu mattets, hut not at all matters whieii Mr. iSenjamin rei\ tied tn. TiiK Attokxcv (JK.vKii.M. : .lu~t let 111'.' S'\' wliat they do allo«;-e. SiK .MuMwoiK E. SMriu :- The (pie-tion i- what, lioth Provinces intended us to decide. Sirj fioi'.i.K'r r. Col i.iK.i: : It i- not wli;,; 'e'e l*iovii...",i choose-, to allege but ■vliat b ildi Pi'ovinees have .-iioniit^.'.i to i;s. Sue iMu-N'iAoi 1; ]•]. .SMriii : - 'I'he ipie-lioii is. wiieii th!-. ca^e was slated wha' ■iid both Provinces intend to --.ib.idt ;' Lo;:i) SKrJMi.'Ni; :-- At p'.'v •"'• the -.iMii iptc-t'on is : ••Ami whether tlm ;i\vard of the ^Jrd Sept'/inber |s7o j.y the .-'i^i llo:iour,;b!e J ) ivid J,ewis Mac- I'herson and .I.hii Ilamilion (rr.iy. i- vaUA '..•;, ve as .uleeir.' bs the I >.)iuiiiioii Act I'liivc Set foriliM)i' is iiiill all'! '■eid.'" A'li. i :! b"L'!i p'—i.'i.; llii'iiii„;'!i my mind ;- tliaf there tidi^ht he a C'rl.ui: am .'iiii, of d ,1 ; Milty i:i e.x ;),>■; en ;■ ;iii o[/miou |o ■'le efl'.'ct thi't th- whole thin;'; i; \:il\-] ■.^v : ■ nii'e.ettM! bv 'ic IKMaii'io!! .\-ji. '~'."i.ipc..f:' i'iw«r-*tT?-' • i Ml: I li I ini^ii (• il, III.: I • nwir i I Mi ::; v.hic • (,>nran K\i'i';i!i i...rl. th. I.oi r.;isij,i at rn r!iL' II Th ■A- ill ■■.n.i rrm :\-\'?'\ as •|i'''i.il ( Tij <:Vl'V ill \ t.'lO-'.; rll Vl.I ■ in : [ Ta^J (.j:;y a!i. I " •;; it'll- peri.il 111' imt i'l" .1 Tin: l!ir-,-.. It C'N-.-!' t:i!;P til S' '.nt I i":i:; heii tlii'V (IM T.!i; iiiir liuiiiii tllL'.-C III. it I'ruviiicf; l,oi;i 'J' I IF, fii liu was ;li:it iiIiL' 1 tile: iTi' li; i'MI|l,'i|, ;i| Kli! \v],y l'ro\ iiK'L'.v oil- i'r. ivi .1 !)N:p'. r ' m-f'Sff'n^ir^-. ini Til!'; An ■i:M,v-(i;\r,i:\[, : — ! Iil^i- it thai tlmt is a <^encral (]iie5tion uliich in ivv.'li vi\\\ir;\(\'i\ III! tlie "rlK.'!.-;, I ,-iil>iiiit if flu; Prnvince liad intoiulcd to ask your l.'>n!-ii;[i-; wlifih'T tli" iwvari! ums vni I I'lir any xtlu!!" loasuii than tliose siipr.f^t'oi\;d ii, tiir .irhtr (jii'V-rioii-, tlmy wnulii hiw ilim; sn. Th(.'_v wouhl have said, is tlie a 'AM I 1 l>il !)■.*■.• liH;' id' I h'J |>fi>\ i--i' )ii-i nf til" Si^Xi'lith |);H ai;T;ipil ' Mi;. I'.'iMi'A- ;- I want t < .•ail viiii [,'ird.-hi|)-i' attention to thotopof page54, ;;! winch in aiiswir fn th- ;i|>[»li.' it'un ><( \.>wvv Canada, Ontario oxprosslj says: • ()nr;\rin (iis|nit'ji tlu; varioiH -innnd- nt' (jlijiii-tion wliiuh in the dooiuiicnts the Kxi'i'iuivu Counoil lUni th(' Ix'iiit-lativi.- A.--rni!)ly of (Jir'Ijl'C made to the award, hnth tlio.«e iibjvi'ti'tiis r(daMni>- tn rjic iiuM'it.- and all oflHirs.'* I.DiJi) Sixn i!:\k': —TliMt would .-cL-m to civur the ohjoctinns which liavebeen iai>i.d at p:'.. r!iL' matter? wiiich Mr. B'-njaniin rcd'errc^l to ^ TnK Arr inNEV-CrK.NKitM. :• If your J>ord-hips havo any donht about it I '.vill •'.■n>ieavur "o 'ioid with it a* W'_'!! ■.[.: I (mii. .•riH r«Af;N;> Pi.mjck :--ln rlu- jiiint caso to the Privy Council it is also ,\-'.'?d as one 'A riiv •jiivstioii-. whether the award is valid in the terms of the •|ii''ia! Ca.-e. Tilt. r."i:'' <.'[i.\X( ! ii..)i;: - h '~ tlie same question. Tle.'ro i.-? nothing what- n^-H'-r^i^- a;;\!:rii:4- lieyond what i? at page 53. I do not ■V'jr I!! t!;>e exp.e?.- ;.;iy ^.iii: ;; ;is \o wl.'.iiiT y.,n aiv li lund, Imt ymi may relieve yourself of t'lO-'^ fili:;-~ :■■■][''•], ;■"(.• at li:i;e r> 1. 'i'iiiv A . i".;.vi V ( li \i 1;.'.). : — !t' yn;i; Liirdships take mo as having protested -.'rnn;^l\- a-.i";..-: ^ :i:^ :!;:.i rie'.-i' ;i;ttt;/is I will (leal with tiiem as wellas I ])o.S5ibly .'•an: f mei:. ;..;■ iiivi trie', .1-' ...I i-Trinii^ . Til'; !.■■.::■ '■ han ■•.;;.<•!; :- '1',,!;.,: I'^.r example the first; •■Thai while Messrs. :; r'/h.-^-l i.i m1idevati(»ii the i-elative financliil - '.; ;!ir time (if the Leiden, they have taken into (.i:;v a;;.! M :■:>.[ I - \ i t I'p.S r:> i!"."iirre ceriaiii i'eins of ex])endiiure, ao liavitig '' ''"' I'r.ivinec of Canada from the >n nf t imt i' h.fr!,-: I Ind-e- ■t'.jii L'vc; til s. In tlrj l:i ,111 (111,,!!, (I;(l rake ; 1. If-'- ..ler; tl;.^ Hies !|i i A (jiie-rion arises uj) m that, were they ari' two answers to that, (jr rherc may be the face of the award, that tliev liad .ir. on My leained friend is obliged to refer back lary jiidgme!:t which they gave lie jiN/ilM)!! (,i \v.;- iiia'le, a;ei for ativtliinu' that we kue^W it luav be that -I iii^'.t!'/]'.-' iiit.i thoir (■•■:'-i'l''rat;oii. jlJli S[ i.r, i!;\; Tm: A •n'.]:N':'i -( m We;-,- v!.i; \i. t!;"V li I'allil :- 'Wiiet: ,1' rliev ( lid or did III it. T sa\ nor liutiiid to tal tl;e,-e m. liters i lito ('I .lisuloiii s!,!. roviiict' s licf y. they were very wrong to take itiun as to what was the tiiianoial position of theiie two lieiM. and It sienis t(j me tlies' wold ore tnev wcie tinilei l,rii:i) Ski, 'J" I IK A r, ii:m. :-- N ATroiC.NKV-( I INI. eai;\' tliiitv \ear bei ore to 00 was I' al th.'.t o:;e I'rov i!i: i.at 'vViiei eas t W' 1 t. ; ; 1 i''c Wa- as-t! ~ ■Old I iie V s!i.i;;l(i lonn.'il, Hilt •.>.;,• ]'ro', i!:e o;i-,' i r.iviiicf \, iii.l V, .'iii-ii lu.'t or A es. befiii'e tl^y were united. What they had torie.s h:(d formed one Province, and ;c% liiry had to adjust 'lovinces which were thus rile !a-t tliirtv vears one Province. 1: no and made into t'A'o rrovnu litir,- a:e! -i .ill ot' tie; t n'' .■n ir! \' VI!-- ;e mil c.i; ■f"!-e, I.r I'a ■ t.!. ra! :oii tlie Imanei al position of each of these tl'ir if tiie re-.peetive territories of which that M |-.i.^v(..l '.Mf! H \v .1 lr!l ;.- it not '0; tliem to bl'ov,' \'.-liutlier th.-d. was t)i,:;i'.r Iki-; I I ijij 0^ I' di It' i J{^' sir;!' sir ^ m ■11 1 ,. ■»;jt,'r-*r«i^-» ?' ■.•*:■ v.^^-i ■ ■"-,■;■■-" '.. . '. ■ ' ■'• -- ;j.T^',SS'>'''' ■ '' - ■ '"-1^^ ,:■■"■' T'.'-.i '~^ .■.^■'••.•••'■''i, ..- ^j ■'• .' .- -?:■.■;-;"■-•;•■■.. -■-. . ■ -:%>!.^;?V.ic- -'^ ■...■^■.-:-i' „-iC.-ij>'? '; i..^^^'- ■' -' : '^^'i\ ■':■'•, !^r'-- " -i^'v-- :■■..":.. \-y ^:^^'. -'■{yiy-;^! ^'-^.'i^^'r ■ ■j^.'^r'-' v^- 5s I >i l|.^^ IfJi 'I IIK ATrOKNKV-Crl-.M.ilAI. :- I tllillk vol)'/ I,i M'll-Ili OS Wiilllil (Mine fo t1 10 C'lili- f;ln-:ioii til, it tlicv uciv liuli!' "m Hn' view tiicy tonic nf it, supprp.-riiin' tliit view luhi l)eL'ri ihf,"ir|i')iat(Ml in rhe a\\';inl in so iiiaiiy wni-ils. Sii: JamCs \V. Culvim: :- -It i» cli'ai tliat tln' rtifcit'iici' t<> u^ i? not to sic hv way of a (.duit of AppLMl i>\\ tin' uit'iits of tin- a'.vaicl. Tin; L ii;i> (. [IAN' i:r.r,oi: ;-_\\';iS; jf ,l// I'll rill •V fur tliciii to I'diiio to a dotoi initiiiUnii i.ri tli;> point '. TnM A(TMii.NKV-(iKM:i{Ai. : — (,\.i taiti'y not. If it was ;i ([iicition of law, tlioy were to flec'ilo the (jiic-fion of lau. I.'H'.i) Si:r,i\oi:NK : — If I iinik'r.:;.vi.s Fi-AcorK : - Af t'.if time tliey wcie iiniNid they each h.id soparaii.' :..tt and '.'. i '•:. "i vifico ij,' C,i tllf) SCr/)*, : 1 .1 (K "\- a •V WOT'/ Ii cdiariL'O' intei'.-t tho tw . cnios'; .1 iitra'.n. . Catind' I . was V',;y!;lii.. proviiic'al dcht, a jjiiblie del't duo from the Pr^iviruxv, I then' was a eonsolida.rcd rcvchtif (d" ihe nniti.'d Pru- • T-'-: on thi separate' .1 ;ve ■:■■ !,".•:.; \'.';.-- ''■ n :•:<: \ r.lirl' ( '.,n: w as ilii> : wlieth'T. wici rhev ]--th'' were .«epar,iti.- i\' a pfi'iiDi'tioii Mf the .-epaiale del.it- of np|i • ii;:dit !i'it ;o pay its uwn sopai'ate del I't'.'.'er WW Ici.t- prior tl lis a;iu II. and a divisiiiri of am' ■iiieli :::i.| licen e-inUaclei 1 ii'inflv after tie, I'liion. We all kno'. that a li e!i le >iini ot nione'> '".iiiee so 'niich. it re -.e.' C'l'ia •; I :; >-,j ..if i;ni)ro\ in:.'' its Pi'oviuee. J':-;. Ai'j' 'I'wi.v-C i vi- 1: \l f r!i;ir wa and t.e ai iiitiators ha\e to defide if. s tlie i)i;-,'-iiun if \.-:w a (pic>tion of I i\v .. !• A f;m - 11". wm i< -It '.ii:iy III: a .jiiesiion in anotli^T way. It apjiearst.i me thiit ih-i'i,' iiiiijlit he a ipic-nnn v.hether if the (ioverinnent IitmI a riij'ht t" revoke che >»pp:'ii;iiiie;it of the aii'itr.itor it nii_:;ht iln it either with e;uiso or with- out cause. I flo not know whether yon contend that the <4overninpnt had no power to revoke the appointment nf tiie arbitrator for iiond (;au.-,e. Thk A'iToi;Ni:v-(ii:M;RAr. ; ■ -I eonfcnd that th.ey had no pov.-er to revoke it for any can-e whatever. Sitt P..\i;>i'- i'f.M.ooK :-- Tf thi were ;!iitluiri;a;d to dn it for irood cause, tin ': tlii.s iniiiio. h-'.' a one-t'.'n Vv-iicther w i,"m the arhitrator> niet to;j-other - 'IJiK A ! loii.M- v-(;i;.v':i;a[. :- I w'>.\\ iro mueh hiuhor ihaii that. 1 eo'it'.Mn; they h: d no ;,.'\ver \>.!i;itv. 'T to |-i.>\-"l:i \k It no:-;* o" i- :d inst a.- ilionu'h ti;- name.' oi' t:;e a; Mtrato,-.- uero lead hito ;!iis .-ta' lit'', and iC y.ui treat it in thi- w.iv, ^'.l.■^ tl."y aie the an'honty \;!ii>!. I ii ; to deeide. If this i> to he a questiua of f!'.i|■Il^•^ Til' r: 'iit, f sulimit eve'i thi-:i ih;',t tiie ; r'oi' r:it.i;v li,i<.-e iieeid<.!il '-"i' reotlv tliev'ha \\v a'ul ti;i'v wo'.dd he a oi,. •■;(!, iii of law thi v have to de;;l witii, ;; wi:ii U I'l' ■eii ''.'I'! H.N J did de. ■i.i.,- a p;iiieipii ;"h wiiieh iii"y vo; . *nffl[^»p«»9jit«y^-»i»*,t.>M^,fl(^>»e(»^r»i^ rr.y i«»:'^'»'ww»w.'a8m:'yg^a'»?*"« ' T ,w w * f j ts^'^.a- ffr t^ wyy^r^'wgfg'yyy^y ^f^if?'-'- »:t1 '"li -fi 5:*«ii i ' V : ; i" 1 1 i:--:^ iU't. At one of tlioir incciinu.;; thoy (hnji'Ioil iipfn: a principle npoii which they would act, upon whicli tlio iirlilhiitor tor JAiwcr Caiiiahi toiidcrcd liis resignation, and the Government thounht Ht t^ accept tliat re.>in'nation, and subsequently to revoke his authority, and rlioy i^avo ut'rice to the oilier nrliitrators that they had revoked the authority. Wei! nnw. if tin' ariiitratnr.s having laid down the princi- ple upon which they v.-otdd lt" '>n to (!;t!(|i'. hiving.' laid that down by a majority, the (-; ovcrnnionr tiionijht that lliat w.i- not tii'' 'Mirrct princi le, tl ley may nave been right or rlicy may not have l)een riuht in icvnkiiii; authority and putting an end to the reference. J ilo not mean u> .-ay at p'o:iieeii. by means of tlu; Executive (Jovernmcnt of .the Province, having by 'n'tler~ patent revoked the authority of the arbitrator noosing the I'liE Arror.NKV t.Ti:.vi:i;.\i. :— I take it that was only .n inodo of ch arbitrators. Sii: BAiiM:-; Pkacock: — It is rovokin^ it and putting an (.md to it. Tae Att.'i;.n!:v(ti:n!:!; At. : - When you a])poiiit arbitrat(U's they are appointed by letters pi:-, .ir. a';d they piiijint to revoke ir in that way. Now I will not trouble vo'if !. 'ri»!i!jis wirli .liiy ui'ie o!iser\alioii-; upon that point. I say that this was a mitrt-r for the arbitrat-'i.- to ilocide. atid really if your Lordships were to b(j c.t''eJ ui' .!^ :■) s ly win. "iicr ;ii'j vi' w they take was fair and right, or whether it was ;i..t. b. <\\ c'w'd yo;ir !. 'i-i-hijis liy any )>o-.-.il)ilit:y decide this ijuestioii upon the infvrmati'i:! 'cUivc you : Yn\i imvc not liefi^ie you what was the financial f\V:> I'r.jviu"- : V. e h ice nothing in the world to guide ns. I ;i r.-; lo w'lat wa-- tiie debt originally before the po.-itii.iM of rh -ubir.'t i: ori^ii^d U!: \r: , '.i lie a i,;;( 1 1 I !:ii; Miiuii'al cxp .i.ditur'.' in the I'rovinci!, aole to r ■■:■.- ■ T> - A • miiile ij:o. l/iiT- Sri • •! .vi: loJ. •• L'l'iUT ( ■,-M,!, oii. 1'. Smii.i ; • •^\ f rill I'asily i'ci:;ceiv(.' it Would i,»e veiy ine(juit- ,' •.'.".I-; 'lie -M".i.' 'o' ihi::.:- thir'.v yi'ai,- a^i'. ;\"i'^ -* i ' Mr \' :■ t 'i '.' ha- iiitlii 1 ,. ling in tlie wnid to act upon or to i;^;cd OS yi.iir i'ppoii"n!: that the words, in clause ( I ;'!a" Mlein lilt one tiiuiij as wha.t in olaiii;!.' 1 :;•' tivcly, b', ei';i;ses t! C'l '\ !|'i'< o! I p' ■•! ).o;i 1 '.,ive IM'^'I- v"a;i;ii!a ' '.li:ou Caiiiula and l-'iwer (.'anada .-espoc- ,'h the Act . 1 litid that in eijrht i.oWi'r Lanaoa are iiseil in a mannei ;i .>-i -ibivb .i:- , ini -r. an ! tl .-'lows n •f V i!o , •!• I r I !i vli'.cli caiH Whh'l: th^, i.iy the eonri-\r and not. o;iir:A i-c Mi: r..,i.-.i.- I'rA.M, ;, ; Tin. I |•^t;| v.'iih reforence to this po'iu 'liio io\i':.u divi^ii^nr- o .; aif only four ( lausfs, beside-:^ ['M'>, in li .-ci!-('. I ,it i: i; imposcil upon them lion appi'irs t.i lie an important one Lo'.'.i-r Canada ilejicnd upon the f the doi)i. I'mI;.- i ( 'aiiada i.- divided into four Pi.ivinces --Ontar 10, (ibiel.iec, Nova ^cot'a am of each of thi'~i; (TovcrnMi<>;it-, i^r^e by their la Lti.-kitivi! (' yearly by Canada to ilu' .- ■> iil'd I/'glslafii!'!'^ ; t.)iiiai'hi icw l)ii;ii-\v;i- then it .--rales what is the revenrc 'U:i' (•- I 'le laws Willi It :-:i\: h tlii'V were anthor'/.ed Tho f oilowiiiLr ,e paid ■iMl I'l ovini'"-. for the snppoi t of tlu;ir (tovei .oeiits <"'.ir>ii, t^Mh h'c sTu.iiuo. \os', Svotia $t;o,O0t», New Jiiswicl. -iiaii.n a) -lot;,! S';oO/..ii). r/i,! nn aimivil -rain ill .lid of the Province hall lie made, r pial to CIMI- p'T !l' (••Ml I!.- ot iml 111 tlic ca-e ol N. 1 Ml' r|n.. populition. a-j ;i»certaiiieil bv tl in \ I, ,a. ■OKI .\(M\- I .riiiiswic k bv e uli sub >iiueiit ili.'c.'iiniai ccii-uh. ipi, he |iM|.'i II ...Hi ii f «.' H'li of tlh -e two Proviii amount.- to 41111, "(in .soii' ■, ,1! v hii.'h r.i'o .- : -h yr.,iU diall lln-nafter remain. Such .lilts .-od! b' 111 full SI", I ll'll, .T.l 1! a, I 'M'liv ilvliLMiil .11 t. an.id.i and 11 b liall Ui. ii li,ili-V(,ai IV III ail\ :\\)v I' 1 ro'.in; I' - - . •,h,il! deduct ti'^'Ui ' uct iiito''cii on thf |pu!i1'c bii' the (ioveiiimeiit. of Canada .!■• ,f (Ini "no- t atiy Ir.oNjiice. all iiiin.s oeac'.eable a Ml '' >\' {}.•' -'.vcral aiiifi.Mti.fllp- y- r' I H i ■ :j I'l I '^ f ■■'^S, I I! i I t ill' ;,.<'err iint'd wlmt is Hk; .sopniato iie])L of Qneliec. W'i'll then conn.- ;i >ii!'--(.'i|iu'iit rl !u>i', tbiir ni'liifrLitnis >li;i:l Iio iiatiu'd to divide r'lf.'^n dcltt.- between riic twn, ;i!:d iln' I >i)!iii!i;'i:i is mude a pii-ty to tiiut reference, .-•1 that the DoiiiiniMii wiil lie honiid or u'liilit :■■ lie Iidinnl iiv that decision. AVhen •'le arbitrators sa_v rhi_' ammmt . f I.nWfr Cnn.ida i.- .-d iiiiiili. aiit] the atnouiU id' 'he ik'bt (if I'pi' T ('aiiada i- .-i hiii':!i, t!u'i> voii will I<;i.r,v imw tnuch is to bo deducted fur intciv-r IVm:!! the :^'^ ynni ,-,r rh" s7i',ii'>" pivab'i' f" !!ie I'mvinces lv^•l■'eeti^■el\■, ati;l until they kiinu lii,? tle.'V ■!■> imt know who thi;!;- n.'vemie is. 'riiF. Atio!ini;v-( h:\!'-|{ai :--l'.nr, in\ 1; n' !, tli-y will ic;i »w t.'iat because, a;- your i.'.>.'y ^|■■?f;'lll 1 1 "_' < >;Uario and ( ^.tjljce j )ititly .slmll be !ial)lo to Caii.-aSa tVn' tlio an!(>ini!. if any. whieii the debt of flie Pi.o.inco of Can- ada exceeds at t!ie rniun st;2,aiin,ii;t:i and sliall be-(;liari,'ed with iiitere^t at the rate uf "> per ce'.'t'.i:;; per aunutn. .Vndthi'i; tiiere is a jH'ovi.-ion -ub-eqnentlv [!'. d tir.i; whieii ]■: a i liiit debr t i lie^in \vi:!i is to be .sej> ir.ited. Sii: l.J.vRNK- !'i: .■ oiK ;- -An 1 ^ei> uar.> I -m as to liirnl t iii> [).:)nunioii as well as il'f Province?. TiiK I.oH'> I ';. \N' fi'.i".oK; 1 i.o ;;.,: Iciv'w '!■;!! i> i.- \-vi-\ Ml ire:i;d, bul; vou iiiust u-.-UMie th.,' tl.'.: jiie (.i"Vfrn!lr.': Tim: A'' r ■; i, ••■i"!i is to ': ,■ itiii^' f: 'in ;ijr rixeci .-i.'n.t . I-' ;(ayal)]e fr..)ni ■ - 'i Pro\ ii;..- ■ ■ i::- d j \u 'riori-, fne.n liie ( ' ip'r,,t:on Grant . ." ■ • :..s!-.!;.\i. : - •; i"-,'. .-vi-i'. ■-.-het'ii';' it i,- .-•• or noi, whatever niiv , ■; :'.:'.' i- t • ' ,■ '-.'i'' ■. ;i!i u hen \oii are a-eertaiiiinL^ iiow i' ■■■■:■ ih ■ So- ••■■ •; . I ', .; ,;.,.- to oi- H to !„j a'rri'eited to Qne- :,e f!- way i'i -^ . :ii:ie:i of [',:■ It-iiL .;' le aii i i!' w :r; . .'' r;t:a>il friend ':o v III a-i-err:;"" u . .* '■ , nf th.e I .i-.'. •■•'' ''' ' •or f'lr tiie ..I'l.i.tr / .;ii)i(Mis in tiii^ 1' ■-'-■ .iva'd i?^ ''.;rr:ii ;•• '.' ; i-r in ■-■i ; i-Ii .i- "'; ■ .-■.•t> of tlk' 1 '■<.■ !'; A ;::C.' "! I 1 •ne'ii'i.. 1' i-[: i''.ni'' ; iie ';ei'-ti.'n '.v;:;eh i^ i'rd.-od by iriv ■..•■■n it ilea;- n; n ;;.r ii' ' ii oi' dors i' '. "'ai' npi.,n that tiiailer, -*:'■.• o! "j'n'' .■■• ;; : iry M jnanei;'! j.. iri. n 'o n-^e the words .' • 'AM ii.-.i: - i..-,i.'- !^ e!\ ilnr'y vc^: '. :' It was a inaL- • • • ded \''.:!. ;.mo rii.;. i,,-.,. ,irilf wiiii '■' "\']\<' J.ord Chan- ■.■,.'.i'!:j'i : I :;';•;■•. 1 lo i u\\\ conti . m/ i,,\- ■: 1 1' .: r ifin to wiia; o iii:.' ".'.■\ II 'HI t : ''I'lrir ih'; -aid preteiidi'd Mil oi 'jio Me 'w .. proj)crtiea and ' : d •- ;•' t r\ .n proe', ■ ' nyt.', ihi- .-anie l)a^iv I'tr • '.i''-. I'v.'ll .'dopo.d '■: I'oLitioP. to tlie 1 ,:-~nnv.d ::.a.i viieie was valuation ■A . ;' '■ / ■' ■ 'y ■•!'.■ I ■ '■ :' ' . e 1.--1,'.- havebeeti I'V ;ii,; ■„.:'.' iieen nneli !■.-.- or much i;iii."e. U'l pi [\ rp:.-.- - •-• ■..■ ,;■■■ [\ isioh o| iIm' 'o ' .''.■■.-I- ol tl I ;■ [,.i:;i. S:.. '• .,■.. : :•- 1'h.M '.■ '{ v,if]\ . --I, ;. 'I't:.. Alio--::. • : ■ ■.;i:.; o. : ■,I'onr oi ()ji;a;io — in fav,.Mrr of ;lie a'i\-;:rd. Sii; ISm.'M- I'i \'" Mix: All t.ie a»-eir .veMi.Ttni wi''i.-:u''i p.irtiotis of the i!.'lii' di lit of e.; di I 'rev'inee a- „• .■ a--ii!iie ! !iy tin'' I'r i\ :!".'e, . II I' 'loiiii; to that I'oivin.'o. 'I'lil .N'roiKN i A-(i ;.NI-.K' 1 i. . Ve-. ii'.r i'.l' 1 lb' I i it' .:■ . iia-.e to d''l'ido hew .!'. a--i I- .-h\!'. !'• li'vid'. ' 'i'lii !•;• ii'.' 1 i.nndu'i' of a-s,'' . ,,• i. (>ul in ih..: ■h.'did' of IJK.i .\ i;l id' i'a'li.e, . , '.lidi t! •. '' in.' ■. ii • a :i!. iidn r vvidndi ;.ie mil;..'. ' in I ';.' .-(diediH ■■. 'I'liex . ,i; ' ( jiud I • and 111 ;l 'o ! )'niar'"' il ii , v I ii;! 1 n..„ lias e ' ■ '. ' - .--id piet-nd d ■> .'.'.'VI. r ,n:;;;<" ltd ' \ I ' 1 ii i\ I. ■| • liil' ■!,■ . ' if. O', ard I;;.'. ;.i ;di"l i. : I'ro'.i'nfi'" ,; it- I ilnal ■. :ilin,\ >;!.all b.'lon.; i I lie 1 el,-, if 1 ]:: , were vabie ;. V i.'', I in 'i la-: '\ . 'diii pvov'sion.- o: i '.jiielie'!. :. '1' 111' ; ' 1- ('i>' . 4'ui.-..iii 1 ■ t ••»-• -ytf^ ■,^t:'»H ■.<■■■'■ : ■^■>i}k'ff^--r\fi't.'m-if imiu i f^^ ,'.-t*m,.^ < ,' . , ,- vJ ■A\ 11 !1 Sir II I'hk iho awai'il to come ti jiuiiiii, \vi! niuler viu fi'ieiul ,vl) Lord tion- at ]); TlIK shew you! so. boeaii-i not iippe.it r wi.'^ii to ( Mi:. \ sliij).-;' tiiib. \<0> \r.y ;•, Gi'iii^h' .'nstir,.' Pa ■i'_kU i.'i' it'!' lii/iiMris. ;•■ (•).■,(', an t\ tiio I'l-iiJi:: Knid that t and tiuU (.ir.estiii;i v.- tee tlh ! L- t' i)0'J;' Wi.ul' liavo IiK'.!;;. t)l' till' C illi .Iii-ricf, a> vi.~iuii i. tl IllflllllCi^ 1 I)M ^I'lit lia^ I'iit \vi' '.'a!! )\ tin III. ai' and ;i Miajn dice l)ot\v( a>s*!;n!)]e. a Ijcr is onfall L^ati;il t to cite to y til • Att(,ii'i i^i;|ijM).-.L' hy an inip.ii'lM I. ('I'M i\:\(i':( nut ni'('i'^-.;i l.iiol I'ild'in !;.;i.i:-f ^ p. In !...'! wi.'i'fi '•'■Wi ^*i: l^-JiVWi •• '■r*»^*r' ^^J«^.l.■:*»t•' ji ■lit RuiJK!;T r. Coliimj: -f (in nut tl\iii!: ym iio'd (Joiii with tliat. Thk A'rruuvKV-(.{i;.Ni,i:.\!. : -1 would io;illv not Jeal witli iii)>t' 12 furtl ler in the awanJ, fXCL'pt jii^-t to i^int out tu y(M]v Lord'^hips how impOiJsii)lo it would be to cotiio to Mii.v Ci)iirlii.-^i(.ii npnii tlio point niiseil by my l(.';irn(>d Iricnd, j\Ii'. Beu- fiirthi':- iiit'crii! iti'iu nhoiil il. lie made a 2;reat point jaiiiu!, wiruoii: lia» :iiu' soiii' niulcr i>ai'iiirrapl! 71, rortaiuly, I luii-t ?a_v. without any disicKipt'ct to my learned fricrid >vlio cxplaiuod it vory (ii.^tinctly, and it was vwy diilicult to follovv. Loiii) Sr:i.r.')R.N'i" : — 'I'liat, r.-ally docs not seem to 1)1! o|)(;nod on these objec- tion^ at paji'o r^d. TiiK Ani>uxi;v(jL;.\r.K.\i. :- -Thon, my l^oid, I will li^avo it. J think I could shew your Lords. ^p.s in a moMi<.'nt it is (juite iiiironahio. Jlowever, I wdl not do so, lioeauso ii irii>hr make it ncoo.ssai'y th:U I .should stare, .-oiiio facts whicih do not ap])ear li?ro, which ! :ini informed arc. the facts, and 1 do not wish to do so. I wish to C'jntinc myseli .sfricrly t' the faotn in the ease. 1 will not trouble yonr Lurdship? f-'irth".-. .Mil. ^\'.\iKi.N Wu I,! \.\!- ; — 1 i!i> iKit think 1 can >isctul!y occupy your Lord- ship.-;" tinii.- i,y etit. i!n^- into .-.'ly Lrcnvi;ii ariininents on tlic-'j (picstiotis, and T pro- pojenaly t" aviiwcr tw,.i (p-; -ii'i!i~. One 1 thiidc of Luni Si'liionic/s put the other dav to my ie>;,"'ie i friend, i! >■ .\ :Mi'nev-( u'liei'al, wirli, 1 thini,, ,iii invitation that it .siicn'd he ;nK-v ored liy '.ny-i'l:'. ■ri:'.' .\i fuiieydcncra! iir»'d l\\Q ami oi JJumon ■r. Gi'iiiihii, nd M';id Id vm;;; l.o.d.diip- a p:i.':siiL;e fnuii the jn'jiiment of Chief .1 ustiee Paikc;' in ihar c;i^( . I may remiml youi- Liird.-l;)|)s what the marifinal iioiC of t!:;; ':\~ ■ v/.t- Il ■.■.;;■ a'i .\ Mi..'riiMii cisii cited I'rmn the 2nd Pialerinifs rii'|)Mr;s. p;:;e i '. The i;m-;'''i put. I think, w;;.-- this, wliclhor in that particular c:).>e, an e.\p:'--,--:'or i/f 'he ('!!!•_•:' .i notice in uivin^:^ jud<.;.iie!w liad any reh'rencc to the i-.,?:Jir:oT! '.rthe committee. I'lnit was rhe i;;se in w i,ic!i *h(; Chief Justice .said that tiiC m . ; tr p:irt ..f t'e.' cmmirfec is neci.'s.-.iry \'> con.^titutc a tjuornm, and that the ".et of a majwri'y uf u ,jni)r!im i- tin' aci nl fiie committee. The oiiesti'iji was p;u. wheilici' tii'^re \\\;^ anyihiii;^ in the e. institution of the coniiriil- teo tlkro t''. le,. i the .Judur-- tr. the cc Miciusiun \\hether a majority of the entire l)ody wi.Ui'i Ci.'i.-tirut" a 'piur-.iui. of wdiieii ipioium -i maj'.ii'v would decide. 1 have !o(.kc(J •■;:etnry t!irou_ili th'' I'a-e. ami tlci'e is uothiu;;- in tlu! constitution of the couriiifee rh'.'r>. to I, ;;d to th;)! con'-hi.-ioii. Ir i.- i.iid down i»y the Ciiief Justice, as a i;ei;i-ral noe ■■<{ '.ww. .ipplir.iMi' in e\i:ry (M>e where thei'e is no pro- visioti I. til- >• .nti'.irv, .1.. ' •••I ■.:■ :.;ir i;e .- iv: :i!iour it i.- tin.- 1 1 is tine that all the mf'iidici- 1", in;:' ;issei!il'!ed. per!i;ips: if oidy duly sv,: i.-lii'd ;i maj(jrity of those preset:! lia\e authority to u.ocimiI. il a m.ijoriiy o!' the wliole nuiid)erare present; but V.I' <;annoi tliink that il ■; m.-ijo: p.oi witlnln-v, iu the belief that thej, or uny of tlk-m. are pri\ entMl fioin .leriiiu', ;li.' m:; Joi'ity can assiune the powers of the win Jo !)ody. A loajoi' p, of tht' \'. holr i> necessary to constitute a quorum and n ttiajority of sncii (p; ,i;on cww sit. In this re.=ipect, \ think there is a differ- ence l)etween tlie coii.-i-re,ii liody md the .Vijeni, in ihe former, those who asse;nh!e. all beinj; duly w.^ued, have tln^ jioweiot tlie vdiole, unless some niun- ber is establi-'M'd i)y <'h;!ite oi- by l.iw ;i- a ipiorum. In tiK- latter, the power is deh\<.;ateti to th(, whcde iinndier con-iii nl iu'^ the aL-'eiu-y. 'I'iial. i> all 1 intiMided to cite to your Lord-hips horn that ca-e. Then i ;eie i.- one case which 1 think th ' Attorney fleneral has al.-o let'l to me. at le;. ' I'V oinittini- to refei' t(j it, J stijipose he iiie.n- me lo edi ''Our Lorci-Iop." ;iUention to it. It is. 1 thiid^. rather an imjiortiiiit e. .-e. Il s!ie\>-. ibi-. tl,::t ^viis n ibe aiithoiiiy ol' the ;irhii.rator has been re\'o!-:ed. and e.-pi'ei,i!Iy it It !i.i.- not bi'cii etleetiially i e, ok^d, riiflluu' noti(!0 is not neci'-;-ai'V. leiticiMo pio-'cd is nol iieer. -aiy. Th it is an Mnn'ti-sh ca-.e Itefofi." Lord J'lldon.'tlM' (-..^.■of ,'A/,. ■.■■'// '•. /,'-»,;..'„,./,.'„. in t,.r \\v:.\ oi ■/■' ■'I'A- ir<'//.vA' Uep'irt-;. j). r)0,"i. That n'.' a ieo|l..i !o 1 1>,| r;dii a ^.de wliieh b.id iK.'en a,eeni'r ibe b.iian(*e wliich ''' * ^ l !m » \ lm»' l imm^l[if ' I ! t '> i T^■'^ 1 f V Bfl! ^ K ^ ■ lit \ ,*ji m im a..-.«ftf5(i ;V. f. "T^" «?as^^s^ i^^^^^^S ■' J' ,11 • I', f i \v:i« hi 111' n-^r- r'» f;! Mw-fl 1 IV '^Tl rir' 11 r i t :i ('.;i.-;o wliorc :i riiMii .iwimv ;\ r'.i-ir.i! r', -,'irii (\i' i 'I'll,' i)i'oi:i'k;dini;'o aie ratltei- Ioii:>. , ,.,,„,. .. .•,.,•1, ,..,f ,.f 1 ■■■. .1 u I >v \> , ohtauieiJ at^aitist liiiii, wliieli t!k'\' lurit-i not to uijt upDi), and it wa,? agreof] tliat .some piuperry of tliL' dehtoi riiiould in; .so! i tu ie,di/.e tlio aiiioti.U) tlin atiioniil to ho Mscertairivd hy urbitratiun. Tliuru u:i., ati ar'iiriatiuii, and in the conrso of the arbitration orn^ of tlic |)artii > r^jvoki.' ! 'iie a[)|i..-i!!t!UL'nr. of the arbitrator. Thi.-i is what Lord I'lldon said, aftur sonu; u'^.nrral con.sidur.iti'in.s a|>ii!ioal)le ti< t!>o 8ul>- ject, at pa^o o1 1 : "It i.s .said ilu a'.vaid is not ^'ood bucaiiso tiic authority was re- voked: my aiLsucr is, that if it ii revula'd at law, I could not have cori.sidered it as roviikcd in e(iiiity, whijther it wa- niado a rulo of uourt or not. If tho award wad not fiiforced, the court would leave the p.irrie-s to deal with the matter at law; and it at law you can restrain tiieni from these estates, do it; but you have no eijuity to come here. Suppoting tho revocation to be good in law, tliis is a case in which a Court of Kquity would not act. I am not sa^-ing it is good at law, but I agree entirely that it i» i>ad in equity, under these circumstan.es. If So, v.-l;iris tiic case of iiio ]):aintnl f lie ha^. .^aiii, for many reasons stated in tho ■l'..M- i of revocation. I havv irvokoil the autlmrity. Mr Oidlen says you cannot. X •■■(■, when a party infui'ms tlir arbitratoi- tliar he iovokcs his authority. if the ;-.i','if;\tr.,r :■> of (.'pini'in t!i:it hi.- ainhoriry i?. g.ine, he lias notldng more to do wit'ii :•; :■•;: if t!ie arliicaNjr thi.il> Iw. lia.-; no li^hr in do so, and tiie party will U'lr .-',;!(■. ;:r, i.s that Im .-mo 'li.ii ; .^u,'j>..'sing Iii- MpiniMU to l)e right, that hi.s \uthor:''y ;- n i: r-^-vukod i:. •quity, .-, i- wiiat the o. Mt.-L'i|actu:t..s would be; because one P:':tv .-,v.-r l\ is I'evoi^^r, t;i>.Mi. aitiiuaLih it is u nia:ti_T 'd' ju.-tiee to the other part_\ . yi-t I'o ■.:-b'rr..f«ir i.- m.'!; to \n;.r: liim on ll'o oiiiur parf-ot his case; but i;J to say at o' ■:. *';"- ;)\':ly wiii ;i k I.'" kiu 'J:> on ; oi' he is in >;\\ , 1 will decide upon the ca^-c'.;' . \^jv-iu who 'i.is nor bi'.ii_i|it bi'luic mo iln.' wliole of it. It is im- ['.USSIIUC t.J :.t;;i:; tiia:. 'nle.-s in.- pi'i.ci,-('d.- <-.,■ ji,ui(. tia'iarher \vill be shut our, i'roni .-t !•'••_' i - r;:sc. f.\e'j;.' as tn wha!' !ia,~ a'rea-iv pa—iM:. It is iu)t of im|)ort- anc.e v.ii'.t' ■:" i^.riv— v.a.- ni' '.\a.- lioi .uivoi.. it i.- .-aid 'liai at tiu; meeting; of tlie 22nd I -K.-i'-o'r'r. Mr. C was p!.; at hi.- riu'nibi is, air! ;lie pi',rs«>.it sent on behalf ot tlic ii|ai!i:i,l '.'.-aiLed flicro: i.ia' i: \va.- :a.! 'i -v \\w puip i-l- ^^'i arteiiding him in the arl)itratio:i. b.;' t<> tidi hini, !>v Ii-tte;', lliai. the plaiiitill'.- .-ol'.citnr would not nttend him, bia.' !'.;-• he .-aid he had i'.o aiirhu; iry. I low c-inld it be e.xpcctcd after that. or how '-.ji id it iie n(.'(,TS>.irv iii p^'n; of hiw, to id\i' notice of subsequent mectitig- f'/ parties who liad diclirid il^'V woidd \\i\\ aitouj '. 1 !im, therefore, of 0]jitni«ti. if .-t! '■■•rii*=? I)e in:-!.-'i'.'0 iii>o!i, 1 iiavo no rii;i:t t^ picscnt rhe sale,"' The purpo.-e of II -rice, 1 a|)proh( u 1. i> nooiiii.;- more li'an to i;i\i: the party an oppor- tuidty of att'jiiding, if lie -ill and caii aiier.d. Tiii! Loi;i) (.'u.vNCi.i.i.oi; :--There are other Cii.-es ol the .-ame kind as Har I'ourt r, Iri,i,.^hi>'ti.i:,i, refi ii-.-d tn iiy l.ur 1 St. L oiiard. "And if a party h.aving agieed to -eil at \ price to !u Ii \ed liv ;. ioiLX's udm ar.- nameil, without cause, re- voke his authirity before liu; price i^ li.xed, tapiity will not interfere by inimic- tion to pre'.en''. the i)urcha.-i';' \\\\;\\ takinu' pnssos.iion (d' the like under t'.ic agree- ment, a> the [ilaintilf tided a-,,in.-t good faith."' ViV.. \S \ii\i.v Wii.i.i.NM- : 1 Via.- i^niiiii' to ^ivr voiir Lordships the referenci.'S to them. Tiiey all seem to proceed \ipon iiord Kldon\ judgment in lloramrL >'. fiantsl>'j(l'.'ii\ as tlie foui;t on la id, ,i.- lar a. I Ikivl tr.iced ihu-m. 'I'lt!. l.'ii;i) ('ii.\>.( aa I, III;;-- -'i'lure i- a case of 3!<>if>:' r. M>-ii:\t. Ml;. \\'.\!Ki\ Wii.i.i.sM ' : \ es, I thought ti:e ri'.i.-:on given by ho:d hlldoii .-eem.- to i;.; tne lotiiida.tii.'ii n the sub.-'ijiii ;it hip^. 'i"he ca-i' of /'/y (,'. J.ihi- I itniC'inl''!^' i- iii '.' S'niinn, pa;;e 17V. M V I. :■. I do not p."'0.o-v' lo add oytliing niorw' to ilie .Xttorney-CTend'al".- argui.v-.i.t. Mi; li> Miw . .My I.' ad.- I lane \'-:y i'. . v\o:d.- ii a\ , in reply, wiih reier ctico to ;Iii; r, -v- thai lUUi. bnairilrd i>> IMV loiiia-d Iraaais. ■^';'»' ■«i»^ar*nt»wi'v i K> K iiw r.J ' » »—'*«;* «m m»V>'!iiflKf>^ «'H»«pl-».-'K«l « «l « T'»»"V «. . ♦ ' .« *..,!-- >1J iJVt.* .. :,. ."fi-vrt •:: p-<.,^,«^,. : -x . : > 157 In the first pluce, with reijiird to the question of rovocatiou and whether it is revocuMe or not, tny loiiiiud friend .<;iys thai voii niuy stand to the Act of Parlia- irient, and he bases his argiuneiit in the first place on the 14-2ii'l i^eetion and says one must enf|iiire what is the meaning; of that ^eetioii, I confe-s I slionh! have been perfectly willing to leave it \\]m>u tlie nieaaini^^ of that section, hecanso, as I read it, what that does is to constitute a tribunal of a particidar character. It seems to me tliat section may, no douljt, be read in two ways. It may be, read as saying that it shall be referred to the decision of three arbitrators ami instead of naiuincr them it gives them a description, but I submit to your Lordships that the true reading; of tlie section is that it constitutes a ti'ibnnal, the mem!)ers of wliich are described, not as if you inserted their names, Initare describe i by tlieir characters — that it is said tliat there must be in that tribunal one app;)inted by the Govern- ment of Canada, one appointed by the Gnvernment of Ontario, and one ap pointed by tlie Government of Quebec, and that that is the mcaninij, and if tlie authority of one arbitrator is revoked so loni; as there is a tribunal constituted by a sueces^nr. the tribunal which is prnvi led by the Act of Parliament exists and is a;)!e to oCt and, therefore, it is a mistake to say that if the authority of Judge Day is revoked anw, if this ap])uintment is a mere formal appoint- munf by ;■!(: G'A'eiiunents <■■[' <,)iie!iec, Ontaiio and Canadi. ndiy was the express proviso made tliat the Le;.;:shiture slmnld UK'et ? 1 submit it is obvious for this reason, tlar in ;; cise of tiii- sort tids cnuntrv does not lenaslale for the Provinces without {.i c'.v :.-o".se!it, thir. it due- nut deprive a Province of its pro]icrty witho\it the coiis;iit i«f the Province, and that die meaning oi that pmviso is that the three Provinces flia!! l•0I;.^e;l^ to tin's arliitr;',tion through thrir Legislatures before the aibitrati'H sluul iiave e\ .^tencj. The f.oKD ("liAvci.LLOR; — Do you mean to say that the .\ct of j'arliament made any provision that the consent of tiie Leiiislaturc should be obtained ? ]\[k. L*o>U'.\s : — Only in tids way. My. learned friend himself admits that supposing no appointment had been made, the arbitration eouhi not have trtken pl;;i',e. and it proviiled iht ii • appnintmont should be mad-., until the Legislature expressed their opinion on the subject. The Lor:D Cuami:li.ok : — .No, no , it is just like wh it we do every day here. \Ve provide tujit a e,!rtaiii rule shall n )t bj aiite 1 up;iM until it ha5 hiin on the table of Parliament fur a month, meiely to gi\o Parliament an opportunity of ex- pressing its opinion. Mi:. BoMi'As: — I always thought it did give Parliament ipso facto an oppor- tunity of preventing tliose rules coming into force. IjOrd StLGuuNK : — As a general rule it is expressed that if within a certain time there sliould be an address presented it may be suspendrd. Mk. Pompas :— Surely if the power of appointmei.t is given to a part'cnlar person who is acting uiidei the authority of i'arliami'nt and it is provided that Parlianvnt shall lirst mecl befoi'e that authority is exercised. TiiK Loijo OnANCKi.ro,; :- -Parliament nught desire to pass a vote of want of conl:dei:f>e on the first da\ of the Session. Ml; PuMPA-- : — No duuit!. Is it nut clear that thi'i Act of Parliament con- toiuplated the |)o^sibi!ity oi" the (Tovfrnn^.iit of Quebec refusing to make the ap- pointment, and if the (io^cimiii'nt of Quebec did not makt' an appointment, then i..y l..ari:od iVicnd e.\p:es^ly adiuit'j tlv'i the tribunal eunld not have coinn int',' foiTo. Vour J-ord-hip: an' vv-cll awaro of iluj s[;(tutos, li'-'c the Railway Cluu.-ics fr' 11 ,.m mi I ii ^*--'rvwr. •T?^iiyf»Hffywj<;f>g^ •Tir r-r".''- \ ■'■ -V;.t'i.»,""* - 1^ ' 'li^i' t f i; iHsf. ■ 1 v.-:!: I n> tlij quutiitioii i^i I'rorii iiiitl hciii-' liiiiHo'f one of tlie qnoruui the miuiluT i.'t wliiuli i.-s siirlicierit to 'io biijim-rs,'' Tdou A'.liliioii • "Tliey were a [xirefl of nuiiniiu;!.- in liiri own coiinry " Mi;. lioMi'An; — I luiuiMy tnke time detinitioii as tiio triio on« iit tlie sense in ^\'liioli I uMs ii-,;ii!:r it, !i3 the tmiuher tioce^sary tu ilo busiiic.??. In corporation.s of indt.-tiiiite niiiiibfiis any nuin!).;r fonti a quornin in the seii-ii.; of beinir a siifFiciout number to do l>u*ine.><; in corporations of a dotiiiite numbe!' the rule has been laid down tliat tliu e in 5th JJ(ii'r/iii;.^\ page 2o9l>. I am afraid I have not the book with me iiow. It is the ease of 7'//-.' Queen v. Grimcis. in which L'>rd Ellenb )roa:^li, 1 think it was, laid down that, suppo^ng any of the parties were at a distance so that you could assume that they would not meet even if summoned it wms unnecessary to summon them. Loiiii S-:i.'JOKN'E : — That is to say that every opportunity should be given where it eouM i^e given. ilii. IV >ri'A? : — In that '.'a^e no douijt the Law of Coi'purations priictically is that a (]U i;:-;! uf rhe whole number can decide any point, and wliatever may be thu reason th 't keei'S t!ie orliers away, a half mily need l)e pre-ent. If one less than tho half i- 1 :< "Wi. as in tlie case eircd ['pim the '.' ll'inii'ii-aV, and Crcssuudl, the wli'ile tiii' j they ni;!y !i i lueetioix n-d kee|)ini.'; : •."• i *i ci! t; G)''in<1l''il r. attentii'i : •. pO!"itiiil .I ;; - ; Cix^v. t!;u -.viiMic- :ui?iibe porati'.'!-. Lmi;ij '-'■lii. as in tlie case eired - ••■•Ad ho\\evi'r iiiucli they may have bfcn .-ummoncd, however uuiel) '• hL'cn wilfully kept away, and I ap[)r(. hend if they come to the ::■< away, so that there is it'.-.> than a <|UOiiiin by the reason of their . ti:'.; rcmi,i:idei' iMiii.!-!!. do thrir business. •:i. uiv learmd i'i''Mi'l thi,- AttO!ney-(nji,i-i'al cited a passage fro.'n I aiji i!ii;t;h '«!)Ii:^ed to liim forrilliiiv; y.'Ur Lordship.-' •.lid tii.u to a ca>i! like that tlie Law of Coi- \V:iii;h wiii'.'ii it is eviir ;,ilf' for ri'iMi-- a 'pinruiu does not. apply, l^it It was said that in that jr touk the place of the half iii t!ie ca-e of the Law of Tor- .■>■■ i.!, -Kx:-: ; — I th-ught the Attoriiey-Geiieral did not put it quite cor- reccly an^i \ ;:.iiik y that the triers in that case taki! ilio place of thvtse who might be pivsetit at a meeiii gof the corporation. y[\:. I'h.iMI'.vs : — "Witli a'l iVfpect tu ynur loixUhin. 1 .-huuld have thought it really aiu'.'jnteil to what I w,i- saving, ii half the mindier were present then they can act bv a ;ijaiurir\-. Tiiis, as 1 undeistand, .sav& that tin. _. -. . : ■ '^'•'^ triei'S lake their place, nupp .'-ing half s^ei'e ]>r«'-'enr, if one wont away the ••thers would be jiower- les;-. If the ^.^'.v; triers tal; ' the place of tiie half who arc [irc-jcnt, then if any one of them g'Av-: away it u'ould be so. At any late 1 mighl cauy it thus far. lie e.\- pressly .-^avs the cas"s of corporations go further, therefore it is clear that the law of corporations does not apply. If the law id" corporati jii.'s does not a|)ply, 1 know of no oilier inle by which you can ti.\ the number that shall be present, except the old rnie tlmt where a jMiwer is given to ' made that the three arhitrator shouk el'n'^, '''^^ ^^''^*^" «" e^e ? '''''"^•«" as either of the other t«-o. W hen \ hi n i "r ^'?''« '<> '' ve in th'p' <> ^o°'''"^^' '« acters of the different arbitratoiri^Vi tt;i'l^^•i"^^ - "on tS^' ^^T' if have been contended that any two ^^hoL k/.M !^ ^^ ^«' of Pr lam. ?''"'■ was kept away by a u.ere headache, althL, hf ^^ *? P'^^^^ed aJt/io If' IV'" '',':''" be bnsy. can it be said that that was a de ? ''^/^^eived notice and if ^^ ''"^^' it, ^'shal! be referred to the arb t amenf / T "^ "l*^ ^^'bunal ? £ ''^^^"^d to rL:!'!!!!.^.^-'^^^ ^ the three Pe^KH/^r-r ^'i^rth^^sSf tliat if 'he had^. Ion e'i^' tint wr.nt^'^' ^'^^''^ fn'isconduct on his part and would 'in all probabijit- i....-"^^...i.'^. ' ^'O'flas presence, and I liarublv ■;/"■ '^' '^"" — "--t'- "■"; •" — --- "— - "<- -"^ at the latter oirt r.f fl"> r' * f'lbunal constitutfiu ot three arbitrators to whoso arbitraiiic-nt .Ind whoJ/^''-'" ''''^'"^ ^'''^ parties are bound to .siil)nut. I do a^'-;iin IjiiiiibK^^'"''' ^■* •^""' Lordsliip.t that if Jiidgt; Day kept away, arbitiutas. Mi/ HoMi'AS :— That they are statutable arbitrators. T rnnrdui/ins is tluit it should bo a s-tatutublo duty. I am only !in.> The rule as to a _. -- ,, „ ixious to bfin^'your l.o dships to this ditlicnlty. f f thoy aro private aibitratois tlion I succeed, !>ec;uife ad.nittutlly tlifv must be uii;i!)iinons; if tliey ;u'C! public arbitrators, tlioii [ submit ( . ni '-'qu:"illv t.Mititlcd to suuct cd. bocausr' tiiou the vvroti<^ course has bcci takou. .'■/* ■ ' 'i '.' —■ ,'.;• ■■■■■'• V5J^ i 1 ►'Vi f. ij Tlie course Court n.' lilt; v^uiuijiuo ivj V.V, ^^ - — J- — -- v..<^ uvi „ j»ii-ni p'JUIIG OIUV resting upon a man I cannot conceivejiiat there is any difificulty, because lie happens t.> be. in :x Colony and not in Ei^inrl. in enforcing upon hini the perform ance of tiiat duty. '^ Loud Skluokne:— Do I understi Oueen's Bench in this conntry would ,i Mi: Bo^a•AS :- The Court of Qiu :in individnal is subjfct to the court- TiiF LoKb Chanckli.ok :— BiK Bench '.n tiic case of a riiniilar Act vtf inand mil!? ' tUi ;u;n you to suggest timt the Coui-t of I mandamus ? -encli in the Colony, as I understand; *'nd m wliich he is domiciled. that, could the Court of Queen's ent to tliis in this country grant a Mr. l;vMrA>:-I npproliend beyoiul all Ufion. Tt Lnuh Cham i;r.Lou;~Conip_elUng t^Fit^fereo to attend. L-a:i, Sn umiTi^-'H: ' ^ •^PP'"^'^''^'''' *^*- "^''^>f conceivre there being a mo- '" "^'\ ;^s I tindcistarid ' °^ *'"' Quartei ■^''^^■'' "PO" tliat subject? •Kl.noii.VK :— .•/■] '"'s is not a court con.stij ns> and the Recorder seem for the Admint'stration of jflfW***^ V " • ■^ .'rm^'.^'^.j^i^f^iff,,,^.,^,^,^ 'V^.m^^:^nmfrm»trfm^^ U'c be eiiforceii upon him in the courts of the country in wliich he h:iJ taken np liis abode. One \V(>rd oiil}' with regard to the case cited hy luy leuriied friend from the 2nd Piclcritu/. 1 think ynnr Lordships will find that althoujih no exjiiesi reason is fjiven ior tin; attondanee of the majority in tliat CHse being held sntHcient when yonr Lordships read the case, you will find the Chief Justice puts it upon tl MP It was a com y whoappointe mittce of a Corporarion : Corporation Law apjilied to tliL ,.^..j , — ^ ..,.,.... the conmiittee, aiul as I read it, the Chief Justice there said that a committee of the Corporate Body had presumably the power of the Cor- poration itself, in so far that'a majority migiit be present, and V)eini,' present, could decide : but in the same case where three commissioners were appointed to choose a place where the chapel that was to be built should be located, and where they were not a committee of a Corporation but an independent body of commis- sioners, it was expressly held that not only they must all be present, but that they must actually be unanimous, and all the cases cited showiiiiv that unanimity was nece.-Sitry the whole proceedings were set aside because tliH three coramis- sioners appointed by the Corporation were not unanimous in their decision as to where the chapel sliould be located. I have not had an opj)ortuiiity of looking at the case in the "Jiid Pkl'ering, and 1 cannot, therefore, give your Lordships the solution of n, but I would ask your Lordships' attention to this principle, which may be tiie i)rinclp'e in that oase. I have not seen the case, and therefi.Te I cannot s-jy, l)iit in many cases where commissioners or ar- bitrators are appointed, the reference is expressly to throe or nny two of them, and the right of the majority to decide is put in that form : tlicn I apprehend, that is the conferring of a jiower upon the two, the two are thereby constituted the body to deciilo. and it is because of that power in them, as in the case cited by Lord Kluo!i. wliure the commissioners, or four, or three, or two of them were to decide ; it is heeanse the power is conferred upon the two, that the two cou- stitiite a (pioniui and can ajt without the third. Here there is nothing of that kiod but the puweri5gi\en simply to the three, and if, by the Common Law rule, this majority of those three can bind the other one, that 1 humbly .submit docs not ill the least imply that there is any power in the two to act in tho absence of the third. 1 will iiuw j)ass very shortly to the hist of the questions which were laised before your Lordsliips as to the fjuestioii of substance and merits so far as they are raised on p:igo o3, and I have again humVily to siiljniit to your Lordships that s-oma moaning must be given to the mciition of Upper Canada and Lower Canada. J'ut it is quite true, as pointed out by Lord Selboriie. i\\^t Upper Canada and Lower Canada are not always used in the Act of l*;,rlia ment as meaning Lower Canada and Upper Canada befoie tlieir Union — that is clear they are not; but 1 think it is equally true that they see no single case throughout the whole Act in which the words Lower Canada am' Upper Canada are used in rospect of the Province" after the separation; they are never used as equivalent to Quebec and Ontaiiu, and therefore it cannot nieiiu that t!io assets and debts of the two new Provinces shall de divided ; it uieans that the assets and debts of Canada, no doubt, but, as wc submit, of Canada viewed as consisting of two separate parts which were united, shall be divided. What wc argue is, that the nse of that expre:-sion must mean sotnothing, and while we could not assnt7ie that it Mieans Canada at the time immediately before the p;ii^sing of the Act, we say that it means Canada viewed as a union of those Provinces, and while we are quite prepared to admit that if the arbitr.itors Icid taken that into account and con-idcred tlie matter had adiudtied that the debts of Lower iiccorcMn;^' :ht have Canada ynd T.'pper Canada ought to bo divided equally and not divided at td the amount of fh(;.-i' delti - at the time of their union in Kvl-0, thoy mig i a1 K; yp. i '*■' ■•?"■*-■■ It-, inon viiicouf of these fluty iiri 1 Av\ of lIl!^ <;atr' ecor.d principle, I submit, is that by the ll'.'tli and 113th sections, it was said that piirticular debts and assets should be held by tlioni jointly, and we fay, therefore, divided between these two equally— at ;uiy rate, we saN divided lietwieii thoin proportiunably. Nov.-, wli. ' -r , )■ not those numbers at the end of ti'.e diftorciit itL-ins meant their real valu''ditig to this case, that they have failed to do so, and that, therefon;, the award on its ineriti; is wrong. 1 therefore hundily sui>nut to your Lordsliip> that the Pro- vince of (Jiieiioc is entitled to the protection which the .Actiit Pailinincnt ixivcs her, of these thiee arbitrators, and that if Mr. Justice Day has failcil Ij perform his dutyasjtart of that trii)Ui. d, we have a liglit to t!i( tribunal constituted by the A(:\ of l*arlia!nent i)efote our property i.i taken av.-ay from us. TiiK Loi:ii Cii.Vi\CKf.t, eat:'.' to ll-jr Majesty. pv«ri^"«5 '•^rrmf^yiflffir^ V r&'^'»:-''V'>*'^^?i;^?^'::i»^w(ft