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'■ MVf^A-* 'ON THE SUBJECT OP (/^ ^« '».•<. 73^', 4^^^ "IV EMIGKATION, TAKEN BEFORE THE •> ■l!'iv:;.>, SELECT COMMITTEE, OK THE EMPLOYMENT OF THE POOR, v> .*.!?-;■-■' IN ■•^5--^ MSi->\ '■ Ji&a.- _ t- « IRELAND, ? ( ' ' w- IN THE SESSION -OB^; 1823. »-C*!^:' si«( • I < 3 t t • ^ 6' i--K' ^-^/'^ Printed by W. Clo\rcs, NorthuinberlaQd-court, Strand. ■=*'. ,. •*• • • • • . . .• .' ; • «. • . . . : .• • • .• . k EMIGRATION. Extract from tht Report of the Select Committee on the Employment of the Poor in Ireland, 1823. ** THE attention of Government having been lately turned to the subject of emigration, Your Committee have been led to examine into the par- ticulars of the experiment about to be tried. They cannot but express their approbation of the prin- ciples on which it has been conducted, and their hope that it may lead to satisfactory results. If it tends to the tranquillity of the country, it may lead to the introduction of British capital into Ireland ; and it may also, in an extent much more confined, though more direct, promote some slight additional demand for labour in the parts of Ireland from whence the emigrants are taken. The attention of the Irish gentry may be advantageously called to this subject, and the evidence which has been given before Your Committee will be read with the greatest interest. The facility with which indi- b2 I fiduals may be assisted in obtaining establishments m the colonies, and tlie consequences to which it may lead, are both worthy of consideration.*' Robert J, Wilmot Horton, Esq. a Member of the Committee, was Examined. HAS the attention of the King's government been of late directed to the subject of emigration from Ireland to the colonies? — It has. What have been the circumstances which have induced government to turn their attention to that subject? — Perhaps the most convenient mode of answering that question will bo, to give in a paper which was read at Mr. Goulburn's to Lord Ennis- more, Mr. Becher, Sir Nicholas Colthurst, &c. reipecting emigration from the south of Ireland. [T^e same was delivered in, and read as follows .•] ** The government, desirous of alleviating the in- conveniences of excessive population in Ireland, and at the same time of giving to the provinces of Canada an accession of emigrants capable of improving the advantages afforded by those colonies to active and industrious men, has taken into consideration the ex- pediency of providing for the transport and location of a certain number of settlers, on a system which v/ili best ensure their immediate comfort and their future prosperity. " And as it has been found that many persons have of late years, in the hope of bettering their condition, been induced to remove from Ireland, and seek an asylum in a foreign country, sulfering many immediate privations from the want of assistance, and having no a •] security for their future comfortable settlement, there can he little doubt that this offer of government, to convey such as may be willing to emigrate to a colony in which many of their countrymen are happi'y settled, and when they have the certain prospect of maintaining themselves in comfort, and being useful to the empire, will be gladly embraced. •* Although it is probable, that on experience of the good effects of affording these facilities, the govern- ment may be induced to extend the scale in future, it is thought prudent to attempt nothing more this year than can certainly be carried into effect, with a due regard to the comfort of the emigrant, and to public economy in the conduct of the measure ; and accord- ingly it has been ordered, that means shall, with as little delay as possible, be provided in the harbour of Cork, for conveying to Quebec such persons, not ex- ceeding five hundred in number, as are willing to be- come settlers in the province of Upper Canada. " To ensure as much as possible the welfare of the emigrants, and in order that every necessary arrange- ment may be made for their comfortable settlement upon their lands, a gentleman, who has long been a resident in Upper Canada, has, at the request of the government, undertaken to superintend the embarka- tion of the settlers, and to make the necessary previous dispositions for their reception in Canada, and their location upon their lots. ♦' He will proceed immediately to when all applications are to be addressed to him in person ; and as, from the present advanced state of the season, no time is to be lost, no person can be received who shall not be ready to embark on the first day of July next. 6 " To all who may be dispcued to emigrate from and who may be accepted by the snperintendent, the government will afford a passage to Canada, and will convey them to their lands, free of expense; provisions will be found them, and they will be furnished with medical assistance during the whole of their voyage and journey. Upon their arrival on the tract destined for their setMement, every male •migrant above the age of eighteen years, and under forty-six, shall receive a location ticket or order for seventy acres of land ; the utensils necessary for a new settler shall be furnished them at the public expense ; and they shall receive provisions for one whole year after they shall have taken possession of their lands. ** As an inducement to industry and good conduct, an additional tract of thirty acres shall be reserved, adjoining to each grant of seventy acres, of which the right of pre-emption, upon the terms which will be explained by the superintendent, shall be preserved for ten years to the proprietor of such adjoining tract. The terms upon which such additional grant will be made, with the mode and time of obtaining the patent for the first grant, the fees of office to be paid upon the same, and the conditions which will be annexed to it, are all particularly set forth in a paper printed by authority, which will bv'^ furnished by the superin- tendent to each settler, and of which the terms will be rigidly fulfilled by the government ; and such con- ditions as are incumbent upon the party, will require to be, in like manner, punctually performed. *' As it is extremely desirable that the assistance thus offered by government shall be afforded only to persons capable of becoming useful settlers in a new colony, it is to be understood that no person shall re- ceivc lAnd under this system who shall be, at the time of his emigration, above the age of forty-five years ; and, in the present instance, it is deemed prudent to confine the selection to persons having more than three children, under fourteen, " It is scarcely necessary to mention, that the pro- vince of Upper Canada, in which a settlement upon such advantageous terms is thus offered at the public expense, possesses every recommendation of climate and soil which an emigrant can desire ; and the cer- tainty and ease of acquiring a comfortable and inde- pendent livelihood there, is abundantly proved by the present condition of persons who have for some years past been emigrating to that province from all parts of the United Kingdom, many of them without any aid from the public, and ut the same time wholly dcbtitutc of private means ; others under the superintendence, and with the assistance of the government ; but now upon terms so fully calculated to obviate every diffi- culty attending the removal to a new country. " It is the desire of government that the oflfer should be urged upon none who are not willing to accept it, as it is a principal object of the measure to prevent the inconveniences of a casual and undirected emi- gration, which in too many cases ends in disappoint- ment to the emigrant, while it is useless, if not rather prejudicial to the empire ; and if the experiment now intended to be made, shall prove satisfactory to the parties, and beneficial to the public interests, it is probable that the same system may be pursued to a much more considerable extent in future years ; de- pendent, however, upon the good conduct in the co- lony of those who may be anxious to avail themselves of the present oflTer, as well as on the future claimants 8 for similar assistance, whom it is out of the power of government to remove in the present year." ■ : ! •■ ii Then I should also propose to give in a memo- randum, which is alluded to in that paper, which is to be given to each settler going from the south of Ireland. [The witness delivered in the same, which was read as follows .*] «♦ MEMORANDUM of the Terms on which Go- vernment has agreed to convey a limited num- ber of Settlers from Ireland to Upper Canada, under the Superintendence of Mr. Robinson, and to locate them upon Lands in that Pro- vince ; and also of the Conditions upon which such Lands siall be granted. •♦ Such emigrants as the superintendent shall ac- cept, shall be conveyed from the place of embarkation !n Ireland, to their lands in Upper Canada, wholly at the public charge, and provisions shall be furnished them during their voyage, and for one whole year after their location upon their respective lots. « Such farming utensils as are absolutely necessary to a new settler shall also be found for each head of a family, or person receiving a grant of land. ♦* No person above the age of forty-five years shal] be conveyed to Upper Canada, at the public expense, unless under particular circumstances, in the dis- cretion of the superintendent ; and no person above that age shall receive a grant of land on his arrival in the colony. I 9 *' Every male, above eighteen years of age and not exceeding forty-five years, to whom a certificate shall have been given by the superintendent, that he was accepted by I.im as an emigrant settler to receive lands in Upper Canada, shall on his arrival receive a loca- tion ticket or order for seventy acres of land, in such part of the province as the lieutenant-governor, or person administering the government, shall assign. And in order that such emigrants as shall be indus- trious and prudent may have an opportunity of ex- tending their possessions, aud providing for the re- spectable maintenance of their children, an additional tract of thirty acres, adjoining every such grant of seventy acres, shall be reserved by the crown un- granted for the space of ten years after the location of the lot of seventy acres, to afford an opportunity to the proprietor of such larger tract, of purchasing the same within the period, by paying the moderate sum often pounds sterling. *' The order or location ticket for seventy acres, to be given to the emigrant upon his arrival, shall ex- press certain duties of settlement and cultivation, the same, in proportion, as are required by the govern- ment to be performed on lands granted in Upper Ca- nada to other settlers ; and the period to be allowed for the performance of such duties shall be also ex- pressed in the order. " So soon as the settlo'^.xnt duties shall have been performed, the party may obtain his patent, on paying the expense of preparing the same, whir h it is sup- posed will not exceed 21. 10s. sterling on each grant. " Each tract of seventy acres so granted, shall be subject to the payment of an annual quit-rent to the crown of 2d. per acre ; to be paid half-yearly, iniiuch 10 h manner, and subject to such penalties and forfeitures, in the case of failure, as shall be expressed in the patent ; and the same quit-rent shall be charged also upon the grants of thirty acres. It shall, however, in every case be in the option of the proprietor to redeem the quit-rei;t ?t any time, on payment of twenty years purchase ; and with respect to the original locations of seventy acres, no quit-rent shall be chargeable until five years have expired from the time of the location. '* As it is intended that all persons who shall be thus assisted by the government in removing to Upper Canada, shall be actual settlers in the province, it is necessary it should be clearly understood, that if the conditions of cultivation and improvement, to be spe- cified in the location ticket, shall not be performed within the period prescribed, or if the person locating any lot under the present system shall, before re- ceiving his patent for the same, withdraw from Upper Canada, and remain absent for the space of six months without sufficient cause, to be allowed by the lieute- nant-governor of the province, the land so assigned to such person may be given to another applicant." This paper having been read to the gentlemen whom you have named, was the scheme one which met with their i ppiobation and assent? — It dis- tinctly met with the approbation and assent of the gentlemen to whom it was read ; and subsequent to the arrival of the su])erinteudent in the south of Ireland, we have received eight or ten communi- cations from him, all of them tending to show 'the 11 extreme anxiety that has been shown by the popu- lation of the south of Ireland to avail themselves of this, and the uniform conviction in the minds of the magistrates and residents, of the advantage which even this emigration, conducted upon so small a scale, was likely to prove in that part of Ireland ; and I shall take the opportunity of men- tioning here, that it having been stated that persons of capital have been invited to emigrate, I have to repeat what I have already stated in the House of Commons, that this is not the fact. But I have this day received a letter, in answer to one from me, assuring me that no person whatever who was possessed of any capital has been invited to take advantage of this opportunity ; and it has been re- stricted to persons who are entirely destitute of all means of subsistence. Have you received any communications from Ireland which lead you to imagine that such an ex- periment as that which is now in the course of being tried, was necessary? — I am not aware that any further communications were received ; but it was generally inferred from the presumed state of Ireland, that such emigration, which in the first in- stance might be supported by the general funds of government, might be desirable as an example ; and that, when properly understood, it might be followed up to any extent by private means, should such private means be forthcoming, or could such private means in any degree be connected with the 13 advance specifically made by government for the purpose ; subject to re-payments of capital, with interest on money so advanced : , and for the pur- pose of explaining more particularly that part of the subject, I should wish to give in this printed tract, which, perhaps, would be the most conve- nient mode of bringing it before the Committee. In giving in this outline of a plan of emigration to Upper Canada, which was never published, but was printed at the commencement of the present year, and was an enlargement of a proposal sub- mitted to the Agricultural Committee of 1822, 1 beg to remark, that this *' plan *' was chiefly con- sidered with respect to its possible application to the circumstances of England, where the parochial rate was considered to be a fund which might con- veniently be charged, if the parish consented to the arrangement, with the repayment of any monay advanced by government on loan for the purposes of facilitating emigration ; but it will be observed, that it is equally applicable to Ireland and Scot- land, provided that a fund equally satisfactory could be pledged to government for such re-pay- ment, whether that fund be of a public or local character. And I should also wish to observe, that Colonel Talbot and Mr. Robinson, the attorney- general of Upper Canada, (brother to the gentle- man who has undertaken the suj)crintendence of the present emigration from the south of Ireland,) have chiefly contributed the local information re- 13 specting that country upon which the calculations have been founded, that have governed the forma- lion of the estimate lately submitted to parliament. *' Outline of a Plan of Emigration to Upper Canada, (printed, but not published, Jan. 1823.) PLAN. " Supposing it were deemed expedient for govern- ment to advance money to parishes upon the security of the poor-rates, for the express and sole purpose of facilitating emigration ; the government undertaking all the details of the experiment ; the money to be lent at four per cent, and to be repaid by annual in- stalments, oi*, in other words, by a terminable annuity, calculated at four per cent. Would it be worth while for the parishes to accept such a proposition, suppos- ing that a sufficient period were allowed for the re- payment of such terminable annuity ? " For example : — A parish is desirous of sending oir one hundred labourers, those labourers finding no adequate employment, are anxious to emigrate, feel- ing that their present existence is a burthen to the parish, and a discomfort to themselves. The govern- ment agrees to convey them to Upper Canada* for 35001. being at the rate of 351. per man, undertaking the whole arrangement, provided that the parish rates be charged with an annuity of 2251. per annum for * It will at once be perceived, tliat thii system of emigration may be equally applied to any other colony. Upper Canada has been selected, as bein^ the one, in the opmion of the proposer of this measure, by far the most eligible, whether with reference to the economy of the public expense, or to the probable ad antage to the emigrant, and consequently that colony in which the experiment may be the must advantageously trieii. 14 twenty-five years ; such annuity lor such a period being equivalent to the repayment, by inntalments, of the capital so advanced, with annual interest upon the same at four per cent. As the presumed present cost of maintenance of these hundred labourers, by the parish, is calculated at 10001. per annum, or 101. per man, it will at once be perceived, that the measure proposed will lead to an immediate annual saving of 7751. per annum, or of very nearly four-fifths of the present expense. The same principle is applicable to women and children, at a diminished rate of annuity ; it being estimated, that while the charges which must be incurred on account of each man cannot be safely stated at less than 351. the cost of the removal and maintenance of each woman will amount to about 251., and of each child under fourteen years of age, to 141. (vide Appendix A.) ** The details of the expense of removing the fa- milies of paupers from an English port to the place of location or settlement in Upper Canada, and of keeping them until they shall be in a condition com- pletely to prcride for themselves, will be found in Appendix A. ** The expense of removing them from the parish to the port must, of necessity, be without the range of an estimate. " This plan must be accompanied by an act of par- liament, which should enact, that all persons taking advantage of this facility of emigration should give up for themselves and children, present aad future, all claims upon parochial support. " The success of these proposed settlers in Upper Canada can be warranted upon grounds of perfect certainty, as the tract (vide Appendix B), which was 15 laid before the Agricultural Committee of 1822, will satisfactorily demonstrate to any person who will pe- ruse it with attention. That tract was drawn up by Colonel Talbot, who has himself resided in the pro- vince of Upper Canada, from its original settlement under the auspices of Lieutenant Governor Simcoe, with very little interruption, to the present day ; and whose authority cannot be questioned, he having been intrusted by the British government with the settle- ment of that populous and highly improving extent of territory along the banks of Lake Erie, now called the " Talbot's Settlement ;" and the concluding para- graph of the tract subjoined in Appendix B. will show the extent and character of the success which has attended that experiment. ** That a corresponding degree of success will at- tend the present one, if an opportunity be afforded for it, there can be no reasonable doubts entertained. It will only require judicious measures on the part of the government for the general arrangement of the transfer, and location of the emigrants ; and as far as the principle of estimate can be applied to any public undertaking of this nature, a reference to Ap- pendix A. will demonstrate that the expense of the necessary measures will he covered by the money pro- posed to be advanced, and with every consideration for the comfort and interests of the emigrants, which is fairly compatible with his situation as a pauper in his own country ; and which country, by the terms of the proposition, he himself must be desirous of leaving*. • It is not coiisiilcred necessary to iucmnbtr the present statement with leniarkH upon the moans (tf snpplyini; any deficiency, or the man- ner of (likpoting of any snrplns of the money calculated to accomplish the object. 16 «t ' f The financial part of this proposed measure is of the most simple nature ; the issuing of terminable an* nuities to be purchased at the market price, according to their respective periods and the rate per cent. *' The Commissioners for the Reduction of the Na- tional Debt may be authorised, for example, (if no more eligible mode can be suggested similar in effect, but more advantageous in prir.ciple,) under an act of parliament to be passed for this specific measure, to purchase these annuities from the parishes. The parishes, therefore, in theory at least, may be con- sidered as receiving the money so advanced to them for an annuity, and then paying it over to govern- ment, in consideration of the removal of the paupers, on the terms and subject to the qualifications pro- posed. Thus, for example, the parish of A. agrees to pay ar annuity of 21. 5s. for twenty-five years, in con- sideration of receiving the sum of 351. wrhich sum the parish immediately pays into the hands of the govern- ment, who undertake to remove B, a pauper, in the manner proposed. *' It is proposed for the simplification of this mea- sure, that the annuity for which each parish is re- sponsible should be made payable to the county trea- surer, and recoverable in the same manner as the county rate ; consequently, the annuity due from all ihe parishes in each county would be paid in one col- lective sum by the county treasurer into the Exche- quer. This plan, of course, would not be in any degree compulsory ; the arrangement must be made between the parochial authorities and the paupers before the parish could be in a situation to avail itself of this assistance. That impediment once removed, nothing would oppose its immediate execution. The removal of the paupers to the port appointed for em- 17 barkation would necessarily be, as already observed, without the range of an estimate, and must be go- verned by local circumstances, occasioning a small addition to the expense. There would be this advan- tage in the measure (if the doctrine of those be right, of whicli there can be no doubt, who contend that the administration of relief to the able bodied poor was never contemplated by the statute of Elizabeth) that it would be a justification of those who direct the ap- plication of the parochial rates, for withholding from individuals rejecting this boon, all assistance that is not absolutely necessary. It has long been univer- sally admitted, that this presumed claim of t^e able bodied pauper upon parish relief, has been and is the principal obstacle to the restoration of the poor-laws to their original standard, inasmuch as the granting such relief has been the greatest abberration from their true character and spirit. ** It will at once be evident that the machinery of this proposed measure would be equally applicable to Ireland and Scotland ; provided any funds local, or otherwise, could be satisfactorily pledged to govern- ment for the payment of the proposed annuity. And if it should be considered desirable, with reference to the application of this measure to Ireland and Scot- land, that the annuity shall be of longer duration, thereby diminishing its annual amount, such altera- tion could at once be effected. Thus, for example, if a district should wish to export one hundred labourers, the cost being 3,5001., if the duration of the annuity be extended for forty-two years, the annuity which that district would be called upon to pay would be 1731. 8s. On this calculation for the different coun- tries, each man would be permanently provided for c 1^ \"i by an annuity of ;^I. ^a. por annum for tho term of twenty-five years in Enpflaml, and II. 14s. 8^d. for the term of forty-two years in Ireland and Scotland : each woman for 11. 12s. in England, and 11. 4s. 9d, in Ireland and Scotland ; each child under fourteen years of age for l7s. 1 id. in England, and 13s. lOJd. per an- num in Ireland and Scotland ; the two latter being governed by the same relative proportion.* ** It is not deemed necessary on this occasion to enlarge upon the permanent as woU as present advan_ tages which would be afforded to the agricultural in- terests by the adoption of this measure, which cannot !;o characterized as a temporary expedient, framed upon imperfect data, and at variance with the soundest principles of political economy. ** It is considered as unquestionable, although this measure is not in the slightest degree compulsory, that the poor man who offers his strength and energy as a labourer, but who, finding no demand, or at least no adequate demand for his services, is compel ed to re- ceive *' parish relief" for the preservation of his own existence and that of his family, will accept this op- portunity of bettering his condition, by laying the foundation for future independence, with eagerness and gratitude ; when sufficient time has elapsed, and proper pains been taken to make him understand the true nature and character of the change that is pro- posed for him. *' It is equally considered as certain, that parishes will anxiously accept this facility (as far as their own concurrence is required) of relieving themselves, at a slight annual expense, of any present and pressing • These fractional divisions might for coiiveiiiriici' he rcdiiecd to even money. ill )9 i-edundancy of population ; and also of securing for tlie future the effectual prevention, supplied by this measure, for any accumulation of labourers, whose services they may be incapable of remunerating. *♦ It is at once evident that this system of emigra- tion could be made immediately applicable to Ireland and Scotland, provided that money was raised there for the purpose by local assessment, or that a specific tax was pledged for money lent for that purpose by the government. *' Although the periods of twenty-five and forty-two years have been taken for the duration of the an- nuities in England and Scotland respectively, of course the only effect of curtailing the period will be, to in- crease the quantum of the annuity; but as the object was to relieve present distress, it was considered that the longer periods would be the most desirable. ♦' It has not been considered necessary in the " out- line" to enter into many details, which, however, have been duly considered, and are all prepared for expo- sition. It is proposed that one hundred acres should be allotted to each father of a family, and perhaps smaller proportions to single men ; that certain re- strictions should be imposed with respect both to cul- tivation and alienation ; that after the termination of a definitive period, perhaps five years, the proprietor should pay a certain annual quit-rent of very small amount, out of which should, in the first instance, be defrayed the expense of the patent, which would not exceed 21. upon a grant of one hundred acres: the remaining quit-rent might be appropriated to the purpose of local improvements, such as roads, &c., and a provision be added for an optional redemption of the unit-rent on the payment of a moderate sum. c2 20 " Although the agricultural population will be more immediately benefited by this measure, yet in the case of a redundancy of manufacturing population, it will be found perfectly applicable ; for it must be remem- bered that the casual emigration to Upper Canada, which as far as it is gone has succeeded so well, has been principally supplied by the manufacturing popu- lation, which class, upon general reasoning, must be deemed the least suited for the experiment. *' Although it may be argued, that there can be no actual redundancy of population as long as the waste lands in the mother country remain uncultivated, yet no person conversant with such subjects can contend that such redundancy does not now, virtually at least, exist ; in other words, that there are not mwny strong labouring men, for whose services there is no adequate demand, and who cannot be employed upon any pro- ductive labour that will pay the expenses of produc- tion ; and as in all civilized countries, population must be dependent upon property, it is absurd to theorize upon erroneous *' data," which do not admit that unquestionable proposition. And if any person should feel alarm, that under the operation of such a measure too great a proportion of the agricultural po- pulation might be abstracted, they may be assured that at this moment many economical processes in husbandry which would save human labour, and much agricultural machinery which is kept in abeyance, would be immediately applied, to the manifest im- provement of the condition of the agriculturalist and of the wealth of the country, provided that a danger no longer existed which now exists with full preven- tive force, viz. that of throwing out of employ a still greater number of the agricultural population. 21 «( It is scarcely necessary to observe, that this mea- sure can be suspended or limited at any time : Jbut in point of fact it has that suspensive power within it- self; for wlienever there should exist at home an adequate demand for the services of able bodied men out of employ, whether from the increase of produc- tive industry, or from the demands of war, or from any other cause, there would be no longer a tempta- tion to emigrate. "It is also observed, that with such a system in regular and effective operation no inconvenience could ever again result to this country from a temporary stimulus being given at any time to the population which could not permanently be sustained. To use the metaphor so commonly employed, it would be a safety-valve by which the inconvenient excess of po- pulation could always be carried off imperceptibly ; and it must not be forgotten, in a comprehensive view of such a system, that the pauper, for whose labour no remuneration can be afforded at home, will be transmuted by this process into an independent pro- prietor, and at no distant period will become a con- sumer of the manufactured articles of his native coun- try. Nor, on the other hand, can any calculable period be assigned for the termination of such a sys- tem, until all the colonies of the British empire are saturated, and millions added to those who speak the English language, and carry with them the liberty and the laws and the sympathies of their native country. " Such a system would direct the tide of emigration towards parts of the British empire, which must be considered as integral, though separated by geogra- pliical position. The defence of these colonial pos- 22 sessions would 1)0 moro easily supplied within them- selves, and their incrensincr prosperity would not only relieve the mother country from pecuniary demands that are now indispensable, but that prosperity in its re-action would auGjment the wealth and the resources ot the mother country itself. *' These observations are, therefore, respectfully pressed upon the attention of those; who have the means to give effect to this measure, which is not one of compulsion in any part of its arranf?ement, but which is considered to be founded upon sound and in- controvertible principles, and to combine the advan- tages of some alleviation of present evils with the permanent benelit of the empire at large. Appendix (A.) Total expense from an English port to £. $, d, Quebec 700 Total ditto from Quebec to his location 6 la Flour for 12 months, at 1^, lbs. per day 4 Barrel of pork 2 14 Utensils, &c. 3 A cow 4 10 27 19 Extra expenses 2 10 £.30 " The above estimate was laid before the Agricul- tural Committee, in 1822 ; other calculations have been made by persons well informetl on the subject, which agree very nearly in the result. In one of these the expense ib stated thus : 23 A ship of three hundrptl tons will carry £. s. with chains to fasten round the ends of the stems, (reserving such as will split into rails,) o2 :iCy which arc drawn tocfothcr ami plhvl up in (lifToroiit heaps. Throe or four men are c^enerally required to attend this work ; these last heaps may be imme- diately set fire to, if the weather be dry. and likewise require to be watched by a man, who is to push in the lofrs as the centre becomes hollow. After all is consumed, exceptin*? the len|]fths intended for rails, the ashes are either spread out on the land, or col- lected for the makers of potash, who pfive about 4(1. per bushel for them. If the cleared ground is sufli- ciently near to a potash work for transport, the price given for them there nearly covers the expense of clearing. The land is now prepared for fencing and sowing: for the latter object, the ground is merely gone over in cross directions with a triangular harrow. This form is adopted that it may pass through the stumps, which still remain in the groimd. Potatoes and Indian corn are put in with a hand-hoe ; amongst the latter pumpkin seed may be sown without injury to the corn. The properest season of sowing wheat is generally from the end of August to the middle of September ; but on these newly cleared lands, that do not require ploughing, it can be sown at any time !)eforethe frost sets in, although it cannot reasonably be expected that late sown wheat should produce so abundant a crop as that which is put into the ground early. The quantity of seed used is one bushel only per acre, and the usual return is from twenty-five to forty bushels ; whereas in England, the farmer sows three bushels to i\\e acre, and the yield does not ex- ceed thirty bushels. The other grains are sown in the following proportions : a peck of Indian corn will plant one, acre, yielding from forty to one himdred bushels; pease reqin're two bushels and a half to (he 87 acre ; oata two bushels ; barley three ; rye one ; and buck wheat half a bushel. A settler arriviiijj in June, if industrious, can with ease prepare fne acres for wheat, to bo sown the same autumn ; after which he may employ himself iti clearing fresh ground for his spring crops, and at the end of the first fourteen months he will Hnd himself amply supplied with bread and vegetables ; these, with the addition of a cow and a pig or two, will be all that is necessary for his sustenance. His cow and hogs will find their living in woods during the greatest part of the year, and only need a trifling support in winter. There are dis. tiileries generally established throughout the country, where the settler can obtain spirits in exchange for his grain on very moderate terms. Brewing also might bo carried on at little or no expense, as the soil and climate produce hops of the best quality ; grist and saw-mills are also sufliciently numerous in all parts of the provinces. Whenever the settler can afford to lay down in grass a sufficient quantity of land for the keep of a few sheep, he can from the wool, wit'i the aid of a small patch of flax, manufacture whatever clothing his family may want. It may be as well to remark in this place, that the use of the axe generally appears at first somewhat awkward to the emigrant from Eu- rope, but practice will soon reconcile him to it ; such persons, however, as prefer hiring American choppers, and possess the means of so doing, can easily find con- tractors for the work. The usual charge for chopping, burning, fencing, and bringing the land into a proper state to receive the seed, is at the rate of about 41. lOs. per acre, the workmen finding their own provisions ; an expert chopper will clear, ready for burning, an acre of heavy timbered land in eight or ten days. 38 " From the foregoing observations a tolerable idea may be formed of the advantages to be derived by a poor family emigrating to Upper Canada, the very first year assuring its mem. rs abundant means of living well, and each succeeding one enlarging its scale of comforts. The settler in the first place obtains from the Crown a grant in perpetuity of from fifty to acres, according to the size of his family, and his means of improvement ; his labour therefore .8 wholly expended upon his own property. ** A large family of children, instead of nroving z burthen upon him, contribute greatly to his assistance ; as useful employment is constantly to be found even for small children in a new settlement. Public schools are universdly established throughout the province, upon a liberal foundation. ** To afford some idea of the ^-apidity with which a new settlement will advance under proper manage- ment, it is only necessary to state, thst the writer of this tract having been entrusted by His Majesty's go- vernment with the location and general superintend- ence of those extensive districts on the shores of Lake Erie, which at present bear the name of the Talbot Settlement, has, by his exertions in opening roads at convenient distances, aided by the peculiar advantages to the soil and climate, collected around him a popu- lation of twelve thousand souls at the least, in the short space of ten years. The generality cf these set- tlers, on their arrival in the province, were persons of the very poorest description ; whereas they may be now said to form as independent, as content'?d, and as happy a body of yeomanry as any in the world. " This, iuo, has been accomplished in a situation which, little more than^tcn years ago, appeared an 39 impenetrable wilderness, and was above one hundred miles removed from all human intercourse," Anticipating the success of the measure which is now in progress, is that founded upon the resolu- tion of the House, or upon any experiment ivhich has already been successfully trie^.^ ? — It is founded upon an experiment that has been most success- fully tried. In the course of last year. Colonel Talbot, brother to the member for Dublin, was in this country, and I had an opportunity of fre- quently conversing with him upon the subject of the settlement established by him in Upper Ca- nada ; and he drew up remarks upon the province of Upper Canada, which are printed in the Ap- pendix to the tract that I have given in. With reference to these successful experiments the plan has been drawn up which is now submitted to the Committee ; I have also given in the calculation upon which that experiment has been founded. Were the settlers in Color.el Talbot's establish- ment Englishmen ? — Englishmen, Irishnien, and Scotchmen. He actually took them from this Country ? — As they poured into the Canadas he took them. What communications have you received from Ireland since the experiment has been in progress, which leads you to imagine that it is a plan likely to be embraced with avidity by the peasantry of 40 Munstcr ? — I will read some letters which I have received : the first is dated Fermoy, 9th June, 1823. Dear Sir, " Since the receipt of your note of tlie 29th of May, authorizing me to carry into effect the plan of emigration to Canada, I ha\e used every exertion to give it publicity, and to insure its success. Lord En- nismore and Mr. Becher advised me to take as many persons as possible from the barony of Fermoy and its immediiite neighbourhood, as being in the most dis- turbed state ; and I have acted accordingly, circu- lating some hundreds of the memorial in the towns of Fermoy, Ballyhooly, Mallow, Kanturk, Newmarket, Ballnarilly, Charleville, Killdorrery, Domeraile, Kill- worth, and all the other towns and villages within thL. jircle ; and my whole time has been spent in vi- siting those different places. In each town I have nametl a person to whc m those wishing to emigrate are to give in their names and number of family : and from that list, with the advice of the magistrates, I shall select such as they are most desirous to get rid of; but I find that theyare rather backward in going to magistrates to give in their names, when at the same time I am applied to in every direction I move. In the villages I have made a point of calling on the ca- tholic priest, as well as others, to give them an oppor- tunity of asking me any questions they might choose. At Newmarket I met with a very respectable priest, who seemed heartily to second me : he promised to read the memorandum from the pulpit, and to explain to his parishioners the great benefit that was offered fo them. Nothing could be better received than the g ^1 11 [)roposaIs are by all tlie gentlemen of the country, who universally think it will do great good." The next is dated «« Fermoy, 12th June; 1823. «' Dear Sir, *' I RETURNED to-day from Charleville, and can now positively state, that the proposals for emigration are very well received by the Irish people wherever they have been made public, and that they are most anxious to avail themselves of ^he liberal offer of the govern Tient. For the last three days I have been going around to the smaller villages, that I might be able to judge for myself of the temper and disposition of the lower order of people : for it is not an easy matter to form any opinion from what you hear. When I first came I was frequently told that groat opposition to the measure would be made by the prfests, as it would lessen their congregation, and consequently their income and influence; now, in justice to the catholic priests, I must say, that I have seen nothing like it, but quite the contrary ; in most of th« tow?i8 they are to all appearances upon very good terms with the resident protesta.... clergymen, and so f JT t*cm thwarting or raising any objections to the Yil.i-\ il^ey have universally supported nie." In carrying this scheme of emigration into ef- fect, has it been the object of government to induce the emigration of persons possessing capital, or of persons in the lower condition of life? — It has strictly been confined to persons in a lower des- jripticii of life, who are not possessed of any ca- pital whatever. 12 I \ In districts in Ireland in which the evil of an over-population has been very strongly felt, sup- posing security given to government for the pay- ment of an annual sum, sufficient to secure them from the advance that has been made, do you con- ceive that there would be ariy difficulty in carrying the scheme of emigration, of which you have now spoken, into effect ? — 1 conceive that there would be no objection in principle to advancing money for the purpose of 3arryinf the system of emigration into effect, provided that v . «ate funds were pledg- ed for the re-payment of si a money at a future period. By whom are those funds to be pledged '/ — By parties who are enabled to give adequate security for the re-payment. Are the emigrants themselves to make this pledge, or persons interested ih sending them out in Ireland ? — I nicnn distinctly persons in Ireland, who are interested in sending them out; but by way of example, I would suppose, that a committee should be formed in Ireland for the purpose of fa- cilitating emigration, if that committee could fur- nish adequate security for the re-payment of money advanced by government, with interest, I cannot conceive in principle that there would be any ob- jection to such an advance upon the part of go- vernment ; it would at the same time be in the power of that committee to make any terms with the individuals who are to take advantage of the eniiiijration, for the purj)ose of re-paying to the Vli committee the sums for which they might make themselves answerable to the government. Do you conceive that the emigration from Ire- land could be carried on with the assistance of government upon better terms than it could be carried on by private individuals? — From every opportunity of information that I have received, I should answer most anquestionably *' with the as- sistance of government." From the information which you have received of the state of Upper Canada, do you consider that emigration from Ireland might be carried on to a very considerable extent, and to the profit of that colony ? — I consider that the emigration from Ire- land might be carried to an indefinite extent ; but with respect to the benefit of the colony, that must necessarily depend upon the conduct of the emi- grants who might be progressively settled there. Has there been any communication made to the Colonial Office, which leads them to anticipate the good conduct of the emigrants who are liiiely to go out from Ireland? — I am Bot aware that any direct information has been received to that effect; but most undoubtedly the impression has been pro- duced in my mind, from various conversations I have had with persons long resident in Upper Ca- nada, that the bad character of parties previous to emigration is no indication whatever of their sub- sequent conduct. Will you have the kindness to inform the Com- u mittec whether there is any expression of opinion contained in the Report to the King's government, from tlie Commissioners lately sent out to New South Wales, upon this subject ? — In the First Re- port of the Commissioners of Inquiry there is the following passage ; ** The convicts embarked in Ireland generally arrive in New South Wales in a very healthy state, and are found to be more obe- dient and more sensible of kind treatment during the passage than any other class. Their separation from their native country is observed to make a stronger impression upon their minds, both on their departure and during their voyage, and the igno- rance in which most of them are respecting their future fate, tends to preserve those salutary im- pressions until its termination." Has there been any experiment tried with refer- ence to emigration from Ireland to the colony of the Cape of Good Hope ?- There is an experiment at this moment in operation ; three hundred and fifty persons are to be sent out, who are to be ar- ticled to Mr. Ingram, who has for some time been a resident settler at the Cape. Have you received any report of the success of Mr. Ingram in any former experiment which he has tried ? — Mr. Ingram went out to settle at the Cape in the year 1819 : he took out with him a capital of about the value of 1,8001. : he also took out twenty- seven men, twelve women, and twenty-nine children, all articled to him for the space of three years. 1.5 The terms of liis agreement with those parties were, that mechanics were to receive Is. per diem wages in money ; labourers 6d. per diem, and food for themselves and famihes ; the time of those persons so articled has expired, and they are all in full em- ployment, in different services, and receiving an infinitely higher payment of wages than what Mr, Ingram gave. Mr. Ingram has a grant of seven thousand five hundred acres at Clanwilliam, which is situated about one hundred and forty miles north of Cape Town. He has wheat and rice upon one thousand acres, which are open to irrigation ; the remainder feeding ground, and cattle of the Eu- ropean breed, and Merino sheep. His manager receives one half of the produce. The present value of his stock he estimates at 1,8001. or 20001. at the lowest. The estimated profits of the whole year, divided with his manager, about 4001. This is the value of the corn alone. The manager is allowed the butter and milk of the cr*ttle for taking care of ihem. Mr. Ingram has the advantage of the in- crease of the stock, which is all that he requires. Mr. Ingram left the colony, and returned to Great Britain with the intention of taking out with him to the Cape his family, who had not accompanied him in the first instance, and fifty labouring men agriculturists. His motive in returning home was to secure European labourers, as he perceived that a pledge had been given that slave labour was not to be employed on new grants. He proposed to 46 make similar terms with those fifty men that he had done with the former settlers. He then came to the colonial department to ascertain whether he could receive any facilities ; for if the expenses of trans- port and food could he defrayed for him during the passage, he should be very glad to take out five hundred individuals upon the same terms. The government gave Mr. Ingram no assistance with respect to the fifty that he intended to take out for himself ; but witli a view of encouraging a partial emigration from the south of Ireland, in combi- nation with the other emigration which it was in- tended to encourage to the province of Upper Ca- nada, they consented to allow 141. per head for the transport and food of the three hundred and fifty individuals, who were to be subject to the same treatment which Mr. Ingram had engaged to apply to the fifty individuals who accompanied him on his own account ; all those individuals are under articles of indenture to Mr. Ingram, and those ar- ticles fully explain the nature of the terms entered into. This emigration evidently has not the least of the character of the emigration to Canada, be- ing founded merely on the demand for labourers at the Cape ; and there is no doubt, after the expe- riment has been made, that individuals, finding the terms upon which they can obtain labourers, will be induced on their own account to advance the money necessary for effecting any second emigration of the same character. 4.7 Are the same observations you made with regard to the saving to individuals in emigration to Ca- nada, by the assistance of government in the ex- pense of emigration, also applicable to emigration, to the Cape ! — I do not think that the same ad- vantages would exist with respect to emigration to the Cape, as that would entirely depend upon the expenses of passage ; it would require no arrange- ment but their reception in the families of those settlers who were willing to take them as articled servants. '■/■'■