IMAGE EVALUATION TEST TARGET (MT-3) 1.0 I.I '^itt iiM ■ m 2.0 1.8 1.25 1.4 1.6 1 -^ 6" ► v: ^ /}. m A e. crl 'm ^ 9 .r> ^ S:s O V^^ '/ Photographic Sciences Corporation 23 WEiT MAiN STREET WEBSTilR.NY 14S80 (716) 872-4503 r^. £ signifie "A SUIVRE", le symbols V signifie "FIN". Maps, plates, charts, etc., may be filmed at different reduction ratios. Those too large to be entirely included in one exposure are filmed beginning in the upper left hand corner, left to right and top to bottom, as many frames as required. The following diagrams illustrate the method: Les cartes, planches, tableaux, etc., peuvent dtre film6s d des taux de reduction diffdrents. Lorsque le document est trop grand pour dtre reproduit en un seul cliche, il est film6 d partir de Tangle sup6rieur gauche, de gauche d droits, et de haut en bas, en prenant le nombre d'images nicessaire. Les diagrammes suivants illustrent la mdthode. rrata :o pelure, 1 d □ 32X 1 2 3 1 2 3 4 5 6 rn VUE SCOTT ACT COEJtOlVE LEGISLA'JION. DEBATE IX THE SENATE Temperance by Act of Parliament: WiTli INTROI/n.TOIlV JIKMAUK.S, OPINIONS OK THH PRESS, AND ]IESULTS OF RECENT TEST VOTES. • .' ' . • THOIi CTT^CCJJ^JSTaOINI. 1881 ( 3%2S [; TKMl'KItANCK BY ACT OF I'AIU.IAMKNT. When in tiniea of excitement men are tein[»te(l to exceed tlie bound?) of discre- tion and, taking udvantiigt' of what is in r. ality an nnliealthy and feverish state of tho body jMjlitic, to begin an agitation for extreme legislatioa on any given subject, it becomes tho dnty of those who aif, by reason of observation, exnerienco and mental evenness, fitted for the task to put forth every effort in their iiower to obtain a practical and judicious solution of the [)rob] burning questions that will always divide, and disturb the peace of free communities. Men of the world who know the mains))rings actuating leaders of th" total j ro!iibition cause, and ^^ ho are aware that demagogueism, personal promotion and self interest too often impel these advocates, instead of higher and more patriotic mctivts, verv naturally look with suspicion upon an agitation introduced and iniiiataineil by a'dtutoi., who stead ily refuse to abide by liberal and fairly balanceil measures. Some wl.o have mounted the tciuipcranoo hobby, and on it ridden into public notoriety, well know that once tlie battle is completely over the}- will sink into ins'gnifieince, and therefore, so soon as a mod'jratc measure is adopted and before, it is tested, they agitate for more extreme legislation in order to keep themsi'ves proiiinently before the people. All Government measures, all legislative enactmenl.:, in restraint of libertj^ must be founded upon compromise and formulated in a spirit of p.^triotism and sincerity. Tliat Parliament can close men's months ; tliat Parlianionl can force pulilic jien timent ; that Parliament ought to lend its great iiowers to coiuitcnance and pro- mote spoliation, Tew honest people will bo prepared toailmit. The swee[)ing powers aftked fo.- under the Scott Act a)id the amendment ]n-oposed by Senator Vidal and others at the last session of Parliament — together with their steadily evinced deter- mination not to agree to any compromise whatever — mutt naturally shake public confidi'uce. It establishes conclusively that the advocates of total prohibition are intent upon utilizing Parliament a.i an engine wherewith to accomplish that which a vast majority of those who create Parliaments have not asked for, and do not believe in. THE .'SCOTT ACT. The temiieninco niovi-uitMil is suokiMi ui" as a " ^^'ic.it iuoi'mI ict'Dnn. ' ^\ liv tlu'ii «i-o its advocates not sutistii'd will; a gr;ulii:il development of inibli;; sontiinciU ( Wli\- ;iri' tlu y nut content with ii l!:/ii(i;l prohibitory Liijuor Law f Why ai'i.' they not willing to wait until puMic sentiniont is prejiar-'d to cnfoict! uxtrcnio legislation ! Simi>ly becsiiise a nmnlier ot local agitators in oach county or district, having their own jierHonal intnrcsts in view, iTftist; to moio Lewis. Writing upon this sulycct, in 1877, the J Ion. Wm. Mactlougull, CI'.. ^I.r., after a careful consideiation of the entiio question, .''aid ; — ' " Tliore is, perhaps, no country in the world whoie ' pid)lic sentiment' is more j)Olential in legislation, or whi-re the means of creating and directing it are more readily available than in the United States ; yet if after twenty years' experience of the system of absolute [irohibition, its friends admit that it has proved ' disas- trous' rather than benellcial, the legislators of other countries may well hesitate to adopt it. A law which prohibits trade ; w hicli interfert s with the liberty tif the individual ; which limits the natural right of every citizen to govern his own house- hold, and to supply his table with such aliment, solid or tluid. as lie may prefei', can only be justilied on th(; ground : (1) That the health and safety of the com- munity cannot otherwise be preserved; and, (2) That the excejitional law will eliect the object. While it is admitted that every man has a natural right to protect liimself and his family a.gainst j)(n\sonal as.satdts, against disease, against poisons, against moral jioilatiou, by any means which he may choose to ailopt, so long as he does not interfere with the correlative rights of his neighbour, so it must be admittfid that communities and mitions liave the right to jtrotect themselves by similar means, under similar conditions, against similar evils. J>ut there is this ditleri^nce : the individual wills, and, having chosen his means, acts. If he do not interfere with his neighbour, lie is exercising a right which no one can dis- pute. The comnmnity or nation (if free) wills by the agreement and consent of a majority, and when the modii of action has bt?en det(,'rmined, the executive authority enforces that will, or not, according to the vai'ying moods of ' public sentiment.' The minority who w^'ro outvoted in the adojition of the mode of ac- tion constitute an oljecting or resisting force, winch, if nearly eijtial to the majority, will keep alive the sentiment of opposition. Every blunder of the authorities ; every case of individual hardship ; every imprudent word or act of over-zealous i)artizans of the majority, and every instance of failure in the work- ing of the obnoxious hw, will strengtlirn and extend that sentiment until it dom- inates in the community, and then the law becomes a dead letter. This is the history and fate t)f all atteu;pts to ])rescribo rules of conduct for the individual at home, or in his private or social circle, and which de])rise him of las indepeml- ence or restrain his i)ersonal liberty. It may be laid down as a rule of universal application in all self-governing comnmnities, that no law which interferes with the personal liberty of the individ\ial will be respected, unless it be shown beyond doubt that the public good rerpiires such interference, and it can only be enforced wheii, and so long as, the jiublic sentiment, — i.e. the assent of a considerable majo'-ity of the jteoiile— approves and sustains it. Can it be j)roved that a /.v TuoDi'CTon Y iu:ma i:ks. '• iiiiijority ill Canadn, or in any of tlic Proviiici-s, (Icsirc, oi', if it word ciiuctcd. wouM •' sustain, a law proliiljitinL; i\w importation, niannfaotnro, ami salo of wini', lii-cr, ■• and KpirituoMs liquors ! Until tlioso who approvo and dcsin* .sncii a law can ■• answf- that ipicstion in the allirinativc, tlicv are not in a posLti.ju lo ask ■' I'arL'anient to enact it. " Tliorn is niucli pi-.xctlcal force and wisdom in these ronnirks — and the result of roeent votes on the Scott Act, hoth in Hamilton and in the County of Wentworth, adds double wciylit to Mr. Maedougall's opinion. Even Haltou, the hot-bed of Temperance advocates, carried tlr' Scott Act liy a I'lajority tliat did not reach 100 — and w.) venture to predict that if the vote is taken one year frem now the verdict will bo reversed lu ilic following pages will be found the entire debate upon the Scott Act, together with a moderate aiuendmcnt proposed by Senator Almon, of Halifax. This amendment was denouriced by the extreme wing of Pro- hibitionists, but was tdtimately carried in a full Senate. In an aiipendi.x will also be found opinions of the press upon tiie subject, to gcthcr with the voting as recorded in Hamilton and Wentworth. We have deemed it but fair to give the speeches against Senator Almon's motion, in order that those iutert'sted may realize how llimsv were the arguments adv;tn<'ed, and how weak a foundation the Total Prohibition structuru rests ujwn. Let the friends of Fair Play and Eerance, Nolioly looks iipcrn that vice with more horror than L do. Jn this Canada of ouis there are many bouses, both the [)alatial residences of the rich, and the cottages of the ]ioor, in which there art' f-kidetons in the closet, occisioued by intempi'r.ince ; skeletons which intei-tere with the ha[)piness of the family and cause sorrow and terror by the rattle of their bones to the inmates of those houses. 1 am aw:u ■ that in many a house in this (^inada of otms, e.^.tending from I\laina-Dieu to the w. stern .shore of A' ancouver, the widow may be seen leaning her head on her hanil, with her childi-i'n around lier, for whom she knows not where the morrow's liread will come, looking at the empty chair am', thinking that but a few short years ago, full of hope and happiness, she married the love of her youth, in the health and strength of manho'iil, and with their pi;ospects bright liefore the!ii. That mm tills a druidc- nrd's grave ; whiskey or rum broiiglit him to it. What may be happening this vei-y night in many a ('anadi.an home 1 'i'lie mother sitting over the halt* l)urnt embers till the small hours of the night, watching for llic? footsteps of her son, (mc<^ hei- jiriilc, ami still her loved oac j waiting to hear his hinds on tiie door latch, that she may lot him in, and lead his staggering limbs up tn his chamber in the hope that DKliATE jy THE .^IWATE. nohoily wliull aco liis disjimce Imt Jicrsolf. I'Vcliiit; all that, if I K\ifip08rSii|i|)usin:,' the linslcind is j,oiiUy, wh.it ensues < One of two thin;,'s : tlio wife either I'frjnres herself and loses the n'Sfiect of her children, or convicts licr hnshiind liy lier pvidonce. If she perjiire.s herself, floes that conduce to tem(t 'ranee? Every- '>ody knows that a mother's {)r:iyers, ami what she \M)uld tliinic of hcv son's excesses, has l<;'|)l many a man from dinnkenness ; tail this Hill w^iiiid remove that safcijuard. A motlicr can scarcely npiieal to the Deity who.se name she Inw taken in vain ; ami what would a son care fur a mother's opinion wlien lie looks upon her as a perjurert Supposing she jiivcs her evidence au;ainst her husliand — wh.;t iiappeiis then J They arejoineil toijether by tlathiw which say.s " those wliom God h\» united let not man put asunder," hut does not thi.s law put them asniuh'r / If she ^^ives evidence at;;iin»t her hushan.l. it (h'stroys her h:ipi)ities3 for life. Thero is another clause whicli is even wor.se llian tliis. I :-h;il not (pioto the words which my lion, fi lend fi'oin Fredericton (.Mr. Odell) used mudi better than I can do, but he describes the case of a man l)rought before a court of justice for selling liquor. lie is lined, and then asked if lie ever was fined before. If he sjiys "yes,"' liis fine ia almost douldcd. Ir this the nineteenth century ? An\ I riyht in suppo.siui,' ihatsucli a law ori'^iuiiled in IS7iS< No ; that originated in the times of the Tudors. It, wants but the thumb screw iind rack to [Mit it down at the lime of Henry Vlll. Now, what is the effect of this law where it can be carried out ? T Inive shown already that tho fe'-lin<,' of the people cannot bo in favour of it, aicd theref(,'re it will not be carried out, evoept by the people rising uj) and put tini,' down dmnkcnness thonrMdves. The jieoplo who will (Mideavour to enforce this law will bo the ba.sest kind of informers , we see them mentioned in the papers, and a man employed as a whiskey informer Jia* generally been ^niilty of some bad act bafore. 'i'hese informers will l;o round to tiie jdaces \v here liquor is sold, and the consequence will be that a person who selU liquor illicitly cannot sell also cider or li'^ht wine?, bacause, in consequence of their bulk, they would be ditiii'ult of concealment. lie must sell spirits, and of tlie stronjjest and most I'oncent rated kind. ( tf course, the lari^cr the j)ercentage of alcohol, llie less bulk it will take up, and tho ]es.^ liability there will be to detec- tion. It cannot be old, it naist l»o new whiskey and contain a largo percentage of fu.sel oil, which, we know, is ouly diminatcd from liquor by age. Fusel oil is a deadly poison; the liogest dose which you could give a patient is three drops, and if he should double tho dose he would not be alive to .■in.swer your (piestions when you called again. That is the stuff which this so called "Temperance Act " will compel tho iidiabitants of Canada to take; and how will they take it ? Tlu.-y wiilnot go together to a t.ivern and drink it, but go round by the back way to a dark J'o-jm and lake this vile poison in a glass over tho counter and rush out. Coming out, he will feel that lie hud committed a crime by break- ing the law. Instead of getting drunk he becomes maddened, and there is a loss of self-rcsiicct :is well, and this is what leads to Clime. 1 do not know th;it we can depend on ligures which appear in the newspapers, because they are not always correct ; but we ^ee it stated that crime has increased in tlie State of Muino since » prohil)itory lifjuor l;iw was adopted there. It is certainly tho law of the minority, and i think, from wlcit I have shown you, that you would have a very low opinion of our countrymen if it was not so. The case of the ( 'ounty uf .Snnljury was cited the other day. Snnbuiy is a county with 1,50Q Aoters. This Scott Act was sub- iuittcd to the people there, and yet less than 2(l'> vot'-rs went to the polls to record ^cir \otes, anil there was a majority of 120 or 130 in favoiu' of pas.sing the Act. Is 77/ A' SCOTT ACT. not that iiminoiity ( V'ou may aay tliat tlic titlicis ilitii>iiH, ami an- HI) ()r;,'aiii/(Hl ihat tlu'v rati thiow their whohi weij,'ht iti any dir«M'tioa tiicy like, 'I'o say that they (h'featnd tli<' othcfs ih to say that Hohlieis will beat, militia. 'I'ako the case of the ( )iaii>jemeii oi- Mhsoiih ; wi^ all know that in cleelioiis tiiey |io.s.ses.s ^ie;it power, iiot hee;vuse of their iniinerical stfemjth, Imt he- cause uf their (n';,'ani/..itioii ; ami they throw their whole Htrength o" iie siilo or the other. I Hhali lie taiinteil, [ havo no iloiiht, hy nouw of the speakurs that will fol- low me, with liein^ an advocate of ii)teinper.ini'e. That will oidy prove to yon tl.o truth of what I have said. I have exjdained how the p.ojde projter c.iniiot he doiihted, from tiic descriiptlon of tlir; maid who hand ed round the ale. which appears to have been the l,overag(j which they draid<, for '• NewK, miicli older than their ulo. "out ronml, And tho ('i)y uiiiid, half .. il'iiif; to be pn.'HKpd, ishaW kiss tho cnp and puKH ,. to the rest.'' [s not that a beautiful description ? You knoN tlnvt licentious eye was never cast upon her, her car was never oU'ended by a wi.rd that a maiden shotihl not hear, and a better jude;e of human naiuie thai' Golilsmitli never existed. That conviviality is done away with liy this law, and drinking over the counter of the poison 1 liavo mentioned takes its )>laoe. Sludl we ever see, if tho law of my hon. friend prevails, yoctff A))ihriii;ist what wit the world woiiKI have lost. Tho.se men have long since gone to their graves, but any man wlio will read the Nurtes Amhrihtiaiur will see that from moderate drinking do not result all the vices which tho hon. gentle- man snppo.ses. I have proved, at least to my o^vu satii faction, and, I trust, to tho satisfiiction of a majority of those wlio hear me, that this law isopjwsed to morality. 1 think it will tak" very little trouble to prove that it', is ojiposed to tiie 8crii)tureii. We know that in the Old Testament, we are to", ' " wine uiakelh glad the heart of man. " Take that most magnificent poem in the old Prophecies of Isaiah : where do yoti find metaphois drawn tnore frequently than from the vineyard and the winn press: t Wine is spoken of as otio of the bounteous gifts of rrovidence. In that book, which I wish temperance men consulted more — the Book of Solomon, who. I believe, was an anthc rity on these things, and will be received as an authority in the Senate — I find thi.s passage : — " And the roof (if, voice) of thy month like tho best wine tov my beloved, that goetli down sweetly, cuusiug the lips of those that are asleep to speuk. " Now, I do not think it was very wicked to take that ibink. Sup[)ose we go a little further. We have had a littlo of the Old Testament, let us come to the New. I need not spejc of tho first miracle at Cana, but we will come to St. Paul, whoso life Canon Farrar has constructed out of what appears in the Acts and a few allusions in tho ICpistles, and f think ho has aoeom|)iishod as great a work as Cuvier did when he made a biril out of a single bone furnished him. What does St. Paul say to Timothy ? Not that he may take wine, but he commands liim to take " n ^im DKV.ATK IX Tin: SF.SATK. littli! wiiu' for liis stdin.'icirs saki'." It CMiiii')t Ik; s:ii(l tlinf. the w'ww tlnis roconi iiu'DiKmI was not intoxicatiiiir, looking at its (jU'ccts on tlio olil i,'f!iitl(iiiu'ii Nuiih au'l l,ot. II it luui nut tVi-iiifiitcil WDuliI it liiiv(! l)iirst tlic iilil liotlhts v/Iumi it Wiis jnit ill tiiciu .' 'I'liat \viii(>, lakfii in oxcess, was just as iiijurioiis as the \s\\w. iis(>il in iiiodcrn tiiucs. 1 liavc no tloiiht that that wini^ had a. A.^ry u;;)oiow, is (h-inkiiii' Frcucli wines likolv to induce dru.ikciir.ess in t'auaila \ liuii. Mr. ViDAi. Canyon ;.';otlhom? ''on. Mr. Ar.MON" — It" we cannot ijot thcin, tl:ft law is ino|)(!rative, and can do no iiarin ; it' we can, tius wines cannot have any injurious effect. ISFost of us, no doubt, liave Lad the jih^asurc! of visitin.i,' France. I am only sorry that [ could not atop there loiiu'er and did not go earlier. At breakfast in that country tliey jiut down a pint of wine before you. but it does not make you drunk. Walk on the lioulovards ; you sec men with wino everywlicre. i have often wondered at the tinu> wasted ov(;r it, but that was the only ill etfcct I could perceive from its use. In Franco you very rarely meet witli a. drunkard, and yet, when Frenchmen conn out lierc, and cannot get that wini^ perhaps as lar>;e a jiortion of them cross over the bay as of Anglo Saxons. I do not think that their temperate habitsare due .so much to the' nature of the race as to the facilities fur inocuring good wino iu Frame. You do not see drunkards iu Spain. I have seen Spanish vessels cotue into Halifax, with a cask of Cataiine wine on the deck, with a tin cup lieshle it, whore every man on board can help himself freely . They come on shore, and when they get into a row with our people tliey call t!iem '• hlnglish drunkards." They feel tiiat, tliey are not drunkards themselves, though they have wine continually supplied to them, you go to Italy, and you lindthe .same temperate habits ]ircvailingtliere. ]\ly lion, friend asks " Where can you got good wine ! " To my tasto there is a veiy excel- lent Catawb.a wine made here in Caui'.da. and I have tasted a red wiiu; made her(> likewise, and I do not seo »vliy tho cultivation of it should not be encouraged. If wi^ oould not ri'.ise t!i(! grap<' here, wo could import it and mak.^ our own wine, but 1 am convinced that, with our cHmate, ,wo could pro luce wine here. But, if you can- not make it liere, why not im[iort it from France * 'I'hero is a very high duty on it. Slid I was in 1io|h'S that it was imposed with a view ol bringing about a C(Uiunercial treaty with France, l)ut, if that is not the casi'. with all due deference to the leade; of the Ciovernment, if L was in the other House J should move that the duties lie romoved from these light wiu's. wdiicli, I contend, should be adinitteil at a nnmina! rate. I am convinced that the high duties do not tend to increase the revenue. because they prevent the usi; of those wines. 1 did not include cider in the original resolution of whicli 1 gave notice, because I never tlioiigiit that my lion, ftii'iid woiihl have the cruelty to deprive the natives of Nova Scotia of the lii[Uor tlu'V make for themselves. Scv-eral counties in that Province are oiio great orchard, and the [tcople have no use for the a;)i.!es luit to luako cider from them, 1 reiiiembcr that, wluMi I was a boy, tln'y used to make vv.il'er cider. After the lirst juice has been expressed, water is thrown upon the residue and, having bci ii allowed to giaiul for a time, it is agt.in piv'ssed ; water cider is the product, and that ciilcr is given to the labourers , l)ut, as charity .and temperance do not go together, the teni- ]»erance people woidd depi-ive rli. se poor \\v\\ of that beverage. Was Ihen^ any- liiing paiticulaiiy wicked in the eonvivi.il jiartics which used to take, place in our youtli ( 1 suppose my hon. frieii'l from S.irnia sometimes, like mys«-lf, takes a ,soli- turv walk, or lies for jjouis in lied unalilu to sleep, What, docs he do then ? Though vouth lives iu the I'utiirt^ age lives in the past. 1 do not iielieve the world is .so "bivl as clergymen say it is. No ; it is iii irked with iiiaiiv a white stone. Loukini:- i»,»ok to Vfiiir ci>llege (hiys, when youth is l>udiliug into niinhood, you recall the days gpeiit with vour friend, and ic is only in youth that ;i friend can be madi' who sticketh closer t.li.in a bi'other. You r.'call th:> sviic iu the fields when, sitting 10 Tin: si'oTT A("r. I'eiKM'li thi^ sluuly 1)0ul;]is of h tree, with ytuir tliiL'ou of iile beforo yoii, as tlio con- tents of tlie lliiijoii (liiiiinislifil, your \w.\vl ciilarj^cil, aiul you Mt lliat yi-ii woul 1 sliarc vinii' last sliilliii;^ with ynv (Vit'inl, that, siiuuhU'i- to shoulder, you could i;o throu!,'li the world witli hiiu. sunununtiiii^ all ditlioiiltics in your iiath, and shouhl even iinpossihililies p'.oseul. tin luseh I's you felt that, usiuLT the Scoldi proverh " a stoot heai t to :i steep Ijrae.' you eould oveicoine llieiu, Vour heart wai nied, and what did you think off Did not the u'iil that you loved eoine liefore you i Did not liei' eye appear hrighter and her siuile sweeter ; did not your hand appear tc feel the pressuie whirli a few evenings liefnrc! it iiad received from hers iu that long lea\ e (;ikini,' o\er tiie stile : i i'.raddoii had not written her novels and round dances were not. L aiu int'ornied iliat an an- cestor of my ho!i. fi'ieud f^oui Sarnia was one of those yloriuus cajilains \\ iio eariied the r.rilish fia'^ triumphant o\er (very sea. We will suppose that, with his boats' crew, lie lionrucd an enemy's \-eH: lair hoin<:' ruh-rs who preiido in our home will, to use a common e.\- picssi )n, be •• with me to a woman.'' Take anotiiei case. >Snicides are often rxnv- mitte i with ra/.iirs ; would von pass i law to pi-event anyom' I'rom irsiui; a razor f I thiidc not; lait a meilical man, if c.iiied in to attend a casi^ of suicidal insanity, would have the razors in that house iocktnl up. So, 1 ciaitend, iusteatl of prevent- ing the use of intoxicatinir liipiors of any kind, wc shotdd )aiuish vlruid;l,id to exercise a^fainst drunkenneKs, but I will not ha\e anything to do with a mo\ement to proveat people from enjoyiui,' the bounties that (iod has given them. What right has my iion. liieiid to tipply the word " temperance" .to liis measure) The wmd isdeiived trom the Latin word tnujirro. the liist meaning <'f which, he will I ill! I by (^onsulling his A ins wort I), is to mix, .nid ymi nny temjier yoiii' bi-\era;,'e with hut or cold wiier lo suit ycair lasle. Tempeianct' does not mei n luial alistineiice, I. am will ng to sail iindi r tlu^ true tcuijierauee banner, l)ehe\ ing that those w hose \ lews I u present ale 1 he true leiirier nice s iciely. C.';i m sa wi fri al •■a I tn< ■|'l \' ■w I h^i en hi4 fat fri an wi DEBATE IS TJIK SKXATE. 11 one Hon. Ml-. Fij.NT — I wisli to call the altonrion of tlio IFouso, in tli(! (iis( jiImco, to tlie iinxindnient wliicli the hon. <;<'nilpin!iu has offered here to-diiy. ami tlu wJiich lie jilaced on the notice |M|iei' hist Friiiay. 'i'lifj arc not tliod tlid lirst one aft.-r consiillini; wi'Ji (lie ]ej,'.il jidviserofthoJlon.se. The rea.son I move my amendment now, in^ti'ail of in the committee, is that my remarks shall he rejiorted in fnll. Hon. Mr. Flint — Tt sti'ikes me tin; inleis that, wJan an ir,)n. <;iised that tin- lion, geiitlemau should tell us that the Canada 'i'cmperance Act will not be observed. If that is the vii-w that hon. gentle- men hold and I'nnnciate heie on the floor of the House, do they nob enunciate the same principle at home, and how can it be (expected that the jieoplo will do other- wise than break iIk; law f 1 thiidc it is hardly fair to say that becan.se my lion, friend fr mi Sarnia has seen fit to bring in a liill to make the Scott Act mote work- !ibl(! that he i.s a fanatic, and it is wrong to call nie a fanatic ; still 1 would li'.tliei'be called a tanatie to the day of my death than put the b:)ttle l>efore my noighl)our'.^ mouth, or induce him to take a gl.isss of anvtliing (hat J believed to be in|uriousto him. These art! the iniiuMple.s] hold ; they are the principles of my hon. fiieml (.Mr. A''idal), and 1 iielieve they aic the princi|>Ies c'a great many others in Canada, and, while others have a right to their private opinions in reference to these matters, we iiave ;i right to ours. In all my e.\piMieiiei' as a tempeiiuiee advcx-ale. L have never endi'a\i)ui<'d t) force my principles (K>wn the throat of any man, 1 lay them before him in a i'e,as.in:ii»le manner, anr to our side, and 1 naturally thought he was !^"ing to withdiMW his amendment and allow the IMll to bi; ■.viriie,! in its |ire- e»'nt slate. Hut a-! he went on he si'cme 1 tewaxa li( 1 1 • « arm r. and finally got 12 77//; SCOTT ACT. oil tiH' ()1,1 stiaiii, and lu'^un to ti'll r.s tlio evils lli'it wc wcrn to brin;; on tlu- people with rofVrt'iu'o to this very nieiisuio. T ouunot si'o that thovo is any evil in it. As I stateil the other day, T a;n not in favour of the Seott Act, and, had I heou hero at tlie time it was ])assed, the probability is I Hhoiild have voted against it, because I am in fa^•onr of total prolniltitinn ; but. as we hav(^ that Act, we should ^ive it an opportunity to work, and tosliovv whether it will bo benctieial or not.. It may not be the case down ill Nova Scotia or New Brunswick. Because they have certain laws there, and tliis Act is inojierativo, it does not follow that it will not bo opera- tive in tiie Piovince of Ontario and elsewhere, (live it an o[iportnnity to work, and see what it will do. ( Hve it i few years, at least, and if it does not do some good to tlie country repeal it. i am not so wedded to any measure that I would be willing to burden the i)eoj)le of the country with it if I did not believe it was going to be a benefit to them. INI}' hon. friend wandered here and tliere in his speech, and if T had been a snake in the gi-ass 1 could not have run as fast or as crookedly from one tiling to the other as he did. Therefore, it was impossible forme to follow him. I'ut there is one thing I am (prite certain about, and that is that tlie people ot the County of 8unbury were in favour of the Act. It is majority of the people had to go to the polls to vote for a member of Parliament, there would be very few mem- bers sent to Parlianient. People will not do it. You cannot force them to go to tlie polls, and. although there is some talk' of bringing in a Bill to force people to vote, or punish tliem if they donot, 1 am sure of one thing, I ^^■ould go togaol rather than be coerced in tliat way. If the majority of tUe votes taken is iii favour of no license, or in favour of the Scott Act, T say tliat it ought to carry. It was only a few days ago. on the 19th of February, thiit there was a ^•ote taken in two townships back of Belleville as to whi.'ther there should be licen.ses or no licenses. There wei-o ne;irly three hundred voters, and of those only about one hundred and thirty voted, but the majority was against the granting of licensc?s. Now, would it be fair to say that, liecauso that majority was not a majority of the whole vote of the townshi]), there should be lii^en.ses issueil, and that the J^.iU should bo inoper.itive i I aay it would nf the ((uestion, for if we get those wines they will bo nothing but manulactured stufi", whiih will n )t lie wine at all. Nov, it strikes me, it is a very curious thill;,' th.it a gentleman bidouging to the medical profession — and T suppose my hon. triend stniuls a( the hi'ail of his profession ; no doubt he stands hiu'h in th" |n(_)iV'Ssi,)n where hf ii\ .'s, .-iiid 1 am not going to dis- pute that ]>oint witli him — Intt it does sti'ik(>. me as curit('(l in >•( fi'rciice to tlic MiiM'inlint'iits to llic Scott At'(. mill I trust tliat tin' !>ill will lie rarrii'il liy a coiisiiloralilo uiajoiity. I ilo not tliiiik, howover, that tlio 8cott Act will ctlL'ct a Koueral rofbiination in liijuor (liiiikiiiL;. Tlipre is liut oiio tiling tliat can do it. ami that is total aliolitiou of tli(! importation, iiiaiiiii'aciuro a'ld sale of iutoxicatiiii^ lii)Uois. J^ iioM tliat every ilollar of iiioiicy that tlie (loverniuoiit raises by way of r(!veiiu(> out of the liijuor traffic is lilouil money, ami I am afraid it will yet coino back with fearful retriluitioii on our country. T think the revenue could be raised in .soma oilier way, and I believe, if the Ooverninent and ciiuiitry would con.'o to tlio con- clusion to do away with that accnrseil Irallii' altogether, that in a very short tiino we would lie in a better state fiiiancially, and certainly more prosperous and happy ; that, instead of losin;:; some siv thousand souls e\ery year by drunkenness, we would have a sober peo[)le. I do not say there would not be .some persons who would bj .some means or other obtain liipior. We could not hel|) that ; but it would,at all events, be Iia'-d to get it. Notwithstanding all that has lieen said about going down into ]\[aine, and getting it in one jilace or another, and notwithstandiug the assertion that there has been an inere.'isi^ of crime since the abolition of the liipior ti'aflic, I cannot bring my mind to believe; that where the liipior tratlic is done away with or ]>ut out of sight Clime can increase. It may be .said that i.. does increase, but we lind that peoplt! who are .solier anil industrious. ;iiid attend to th(>ir own affairs, are not. eriiuinals. We lind that nine-tenths of the cases that come into the courts are caused by intoxicating linucn-. They are not caused by cold watcn-, at all events. Conserpiently, I cannot bring my mind to believe that crime in the State oi Maine. is the result of the prohibitory liipior law. I would only say, in conclusion, in reference to this matter, that in supjiorting tliis measure T feel 1 am dischaiging a duly which is incumbent upon me, and in doing so 1 have great jileasure in voting against the amendment. If tin; amendment is carried, the Scott Act is flestrtiyeil to all intents and jmritosvs, and is not worth the paper on which it is written, because, wlii! ! you give jieople an oppoitunity of having beer, wine and cider, they will have stronger stimulants, and mix them. I know of manr who have endeavoured to abandon the use of intoxicating liquor.s, and suc- ceeded ; but have iiei'ii brought liack again into a. state of drunkenness in coii- seijuence of taking beer with a stick in it. As to strong beer, .1 can assure lion, gentlemen that J have had it tried for the jairpose of seeing Jiow much alcohol there was in it. At a meeting held in iJelleville a great many years ago, we had two ]ieisons present with a still for the purpose of distilling various kinds ot wines, to show how much alcoiiol each quality contained. Tlu>y spoke of beer as fJsj containing alcohol, when a brewer rose up in the J louse and said there was no alcohol in his beer, and he would defy them to get any out of it. 1 said : " If you will come down here I will send a gen- tleman with you, and you can get a ipiart of beer from yoiu' brewery and try it." He willingly consented, took a decanter liim.self, lilled it with his own beer, brought it back and })laced it on the table. I said : " Now, sir, I want you to take that still, examine it thoroughly, and say whether there is anything in it." He did so, and said, " Theri; is nothing in it ; it is ]ierfectly clean." I said ; *' Pour in your beer," Ho diil so ; fire was put under it, and in a short time it be- gan to throw ofl' the spirit, and aft<'r it had finished thrnwing off the alcohol we pro- duced one wine glass full and a half of alcohol from that decanter i^f lieer. 'I'iie ret^t WIS .sent around in tumblers to all parts of the House, so that pai-ties jiresent could taste it ; but it smelt like bilgo water, and they could not jilace it to their lips. If there was one glass of strong alcohol in one (juart of that beer, 1 say one quart of that beer wouhl make a man drunk. Hon. !Mr. Devkr — There is just four per cent, of proof alcohol in a quart of beer. Hon. Mr. Flint — I say 1 saw it taken out myself, because I was present at the meeting. u THE SCOTT ACT. Ito.i. .Ml-. Brousk— Whose l)cer was tl at ! I fon. ;Mr. Flint — It \v;i.s tliat of ;i uiau iiiuneJ Asahel Elmer, wlio is dead now. Hon. Mr. AiKiNs-Then lie is on his bier. Noil. Sir Alex. Ca.mimiki.l — It cannot bo. Hon. Ml'. Ki.rNT — T .say to tho liuii. tlio Po.stmiister General it was a positive fact, as I saw it myself. lion. .Mr. Simpson — Had you the proper appliances to test iti Hon. Mr. Flint — Yos ; we had all tin; appliances to test it. Hon. Mr. l'iKi:.sou — I thiidv, hon. ^'iMitleinen. that this is ii mittor of roally very scrioiin ini|>ortatK'p. Tho country decided witliin the hist few years tliat this ])roliibitory measure should be in a position to be tested tiironghout tiie Doniirdon to tlie e.xlent that tlie peophi miiiht de.sire, and tiie aincndiiU'iits pro|)osed in this Bill are merely to make tiio Scott Act oiiiTatire, and nothinif more. Tiio amend- ment proposed by m)' hon. friend from Halifax (Mr. Alinon) is of that character that it would necessarily interfere very much with tho ojx'ration of the Scott Act. Now, he might intr'xliiei- a l)ill <^ontainiiiif ecrt.ain |)rovisiniis that ho has referred to in his speech — for instance, one to amend thi^ Sc3*t Act in res[)ect to tho provision to wliioh he alludes, where a wife may be cillfil upon to give evidence against her hus- band. I tiunk it is a very debateabie .piestion ; and it strikers me very foreildy that it is a ])rovi.sion tiiat ought not to exist in any statute tliat a wife should be com- pelled to give evidence against her husl)anrience in tae nvantime indic.ito their desii'a- bility, but I do not think it is desirable that ! is amendnents sliouhl be passed at the present time. Hon. Mr. Sccrrr — Before the vote is t.'ken 1 w! ili to make an observation or two. It will be in the mi.'inory of hon. gentlemen that f'r .so ni* yetra anterior to IH78 — from 1874 downwards -as this II( use was in si.'s^ion ihijiisan Is of |)etitions wore presented from all |iarts of the D )ininion askitig that a 'irohiiiitory law might be intro luced. A committee was strut k in this llo.se ipiie yi'ar, to consider those petitions, and tliat comii''.,U'e wa.^ aoi lowhat favourable to tho introduction of a DKIIATK IS Tin: SF.SATK. 15 proliiliitoiy li(;iii)r law. I\Iy hwii view tluii, us Tiif view is to (lay, was that a ])i-()- liiliitoiy law for tlio wliolc; of this comitrv woiilil ito imwiso; that tho jmhiio wero not .siitlicifMitly fMliicatcd up to tlio threat advantagps that would flow from tlio total abolition of the li(|uoi' ti-atlc mul tin- total ilciiial of drink. lliilil the laibiio mind was educated u|> to thai point, my own viesv wan thai it would ho wiser to lej,'ishilo in tho direction of what nught be called " local option." In furtherance of that oj)inion, and in com|iliance with tho then will of rarliamenl, a measure was introducfnl in 1^>78 — what is now known as tho'- ( 'anada 'reni|.ei;uui' Act." That nieasuro was introdue<'d in this Chambei- iu the early jiart of ,\rarch, and this Senate gave its untirinj^ time to the consideration of tho several chaises in that Bill. It remained in this (.'hamljer and was di.scussed, not dav by day, but with short intermissions for nearly a full month, and t^very dausi; of it was thoughtfully considered, lb was believed that the measure, if pluceil on the Slitute book, would give the jieople of this country an opportunity of testing whether the Local Option liaw would be ii success, and wheth(!i- the time would ever come when the* jiecple of Canada would be educated U|>, in my judgment, to that high ]e\>*l which would enable a future rurliament to al)solutely [irohiljit the manufacture and sale of intoxi- cating drinks in this country. That hiw has been on the IStatute book now for less than three years. We know that it has given satisfaction to a very considerable number of j)eople of this country ; it has I een introduci'd in Ht;veral localities in the Dominion, but the working of the law, owing to the time being so extremely short, has not been thoroughly tested. I think it would lie a very grave mistake if this Chandler, at this moment, were to destroy the legish'tion to which they thems(dvcs have fievoted so nnich time and attention. Whatever our own individual view.s may be ais to the wisdom of total abstinence or moderate diinking, wo n nst all admit that there is a considerable nundier of the jieople of Canada that iinist bo recognized as anxious to serve, not only tliemsehes an to frame A measure of this kind, to deny it that fail' trial that every law shoidd obtain to en- able the jK-ople to judge whether it is a wise, or hasty, or iniudicious measure. That law has tiot had a fair trial, and the efl'ect of cai'rying thisaiuendnient will simply be to destroy that Act. [ have watched the woi king of this law, not in Canada alone, but elsewhere, and 1 have not come to tlie same conclusion as the hon. gentleman wlio moveil this amendment, namt;ly, that crimes had not decreased where tempeiauce laws [irevrtil. I have the rejiort of a comnussion apjiointed in 187') to inquire into the working of a ])r(diiiiitory law in tho State ot Maine, and 1 tell him that the invariable testimony given before that Commission was in the direction that wherever the la^v was adopted, whether in force fidly or partially, the etTect was to greatly diminish crime. I have also a report that was pies(!nted to that Connnitt by the Inspector of State Prisons, in which ho gives a clu.isitiia'ion of crime. He tak(^s the two years 1 8(i7 and IS'IS. In one year tho law was in force, and in the other it was not. In one year a prohiiiitoiy liquor law was in existence; iu the other tlun-e was no restraint on tho .sale of licpioi, and what do we find \ In the year it was not in force, taking the month of February, tho committals fir crime were iJl^ as against ir> in the year the prohibi- tory law was in force; in JMarch there were IU as against 13; in April, 16 as against 4; in May, 17 as against TJ; in June, 15 as against 7; in July, 17 as against ti; in August, there were 1 1 us against 3, and in September there were 11 as against 3. That testimony would be conlirmed by the judgment of every gentleman who now sits on the bench, particularly in the Proviiuie of Ontario; and i find that the same opinions have fallen from judges in other jiortions of (lie Dominion. As far as the Province of Ontario is concerneil, hon. gentlenie.i will lind that the addresses pre- sented to the grand jurors by the judges all agnw in the statement that crime i.s largely owing to the pornicioua influence of intoxicating drink.s. The reasons why 10 THE SCOTT ACT. I consider that tlie cnn-viiii,' of tlie lion. <:;ontltMnini'.s iunondnioiit would destroy tlii« Bill are as follows : if |>arlies were allowed to sell all light wines and boor it wonlfl sinijily lio a cloak for sellir.L; liquors of a stronger character. We know that that would be the elfect, and it would Ite utterly iin[)0ssil)le and hopeless to restrain thoin. You would have to have analysts in every town and village over the whole countr)'. It would ho inipo.'sihie to obtain ))rofeasional assistant! t^) analyse what would bo ])laccd before the jpeople. The hon. gentleman has drawn a very beauti- fid ](ictur(i of the state of society as hcM'omenibers it many years ago and as describ- ed by poets, and th.^ efl'eet on the peo]>!e of drinking jiure li(pior. But tlic li m. gentle- man will not find that the li(pior drank in this country to-day will produce any such eflect. 1 deny that pure liijuor can be obtained to-day ; 1 deny that five pei" cent, of the li(piors that come into Canada are jiure and unadulterated. 1 ha \-e watched very closely the last twenty-tive years the character of wines in nse, and have made myself a fair judge during that time of Avhat wines were, and I say advisedly thai the character of wines changes year by yeai', just as the fashions change. They are dry, or fruity, or thin, or full bodied, and they are all man\ifactnreL If any hon. gentleman will take the trouble to read the history of the wine trade, I will refer him to some al)le articles on the subject th:it apjieared a few years ago in i\\fi Fall Mall lt;!isiiuit iliink, ami tiiken iu iiiodenilinn itHiU^letcrioiis effectH on Homo couatitutiouH may not be percoptildo. Uut 1 take the giouiiil tlmt niulci- no condiliou ciiii it bo vahmblc, nor (;iui it .idd |H!i'inani)itai'.t hi aiuonsist iiiciiical men wiictlua' it is useful, uudoiany circuiustiinees, in niocliciui! . . not. Soino nicilicai K'-MlliMaen ontt'i'taiu tlio opinion tliat it is not only wholly uniieecssary, but liiat its usu is injurious. 'I'hat is a i|Ucstion that wo n(M;d not discuss. (ientloiiKMi of tho rni'dical profession may hold their 'wii views on that jioint. This law does not inteil'ci'e with tho use of liipiDi for iiiudicinal purposes, and in no way disturlis the right of medical men to direct that jwrsons may use it und. r certain conditions, and there aro places appointed wlicvo iiijiiors luay bo kept for such uses aiul other purposes. For these reasons, and more part i'.'ulai ly as it is a question I du not desire to i^o into at any leiii^th, us it is a very largo one, I do think that this House, having j^iven so niucli time and attention to tho consitleration of this measuri>, and having made it what may lie eallcerfect one, as it had that compliment pai I it, in tho IJri'ish House of ( 'ouumoiis, where it was direvte(l to Ijo printed lor tho benefit of the people of Kngland, and where a vote on lo( al 0|ition was taken not lung ago, when two hundred members of that House e.xpressed tho opinion that the local option was a goo(l one, and were in favoiii- of its adoption in !''ngland, the law should 1)0 given a fair trial. As an educator of tin- jKMjple it is on our Statute book. It has not a general application, though an h in. genticMuan who conies from a. section wiiere probably for twenty-live years this law will not prevail took o,\v'eptioii to it. I think this lion, gentleman ought to have some consiiler.ition tor tho pijople who live inother pioviiices, and who tiiink some periiiamuU results will follow from the intro- duction of this measure. 1 think, therefore, as it is a law that aU'eets other se-iiuna of tho country, it would Ix) at least more fair on tie- ]iart < f that lion, genth in.in to allow it to stand on the Stitute book until it his had a fair trial. It caiumt h.ivo liad a full trial in the short time it has been in (sxisteuee. f do nut know tha; it lias been in existence in any county for two years. It has i)een on our Statute Look less than three years, but it takes, mider ordinaiy circumstances, nearly a vear befor(! the law can be brought into force, from tin; peeuliir machinery that is pro- vided fur tli.it )iurpose. lion, geiitlem'n agree that inteniperanco is a ba I thing. 1 never heard a more itathetie or touching speech than that with which the hou. gcMitlemau from llalil'ax favoiiied us in introducing this atuondiueut, but I certainly did think it soiii'jwhat paradoxical, when he gave us that introduction, that lie tell from that, and at once pionoiinccil a conde'.iiatiou (jf this law. He himselt seems to be, at all events, fully conscious that there are grave evils in over iiKlulgeiiee in intoxicating li((Uors. lie beliove.s that men ought to 1)0 i-estrained, that the ojipur- tunilies for drinking ought to be removed trom thorn, beci.usc it is iJiaeticallv tho sequcu'ce of tho oiiinious th;it he expressed in his introductory rem. irks. Hon. Mr. Ai.MON — I say it is to be removed from tliose wh > .isuse it, jiot from those who use it. Hon. ,Mr. Scott — It is of the people whu misuse it I "peak ; it is for tho people who would like to have it removed from their sight lliat I s|)eak : they aro thosv' tlii^ Iidii. yciillciiiiti who Hrst ('piioMvl tin' mod. )Ti - -till' liun. i,'i'iilli'iiii:irtii'iil:irly tVoni one point of vit'W, iimsmiich as Im cxiifi'.sscil liiniHflf fis iliHtiiictly oppos-d to ivxTclon in any sliap" or form. In rffcrriiii; to tliv rpicstion of cnnipiilHory volin'jf, lli" lion, iji'iitloman ^m<\ omiiiioii to coerce the <^r a discussion siicji jis this is. He reteired to the reeei|>ls of revenue derived l>y the Uovornnient from customs and excise as " blood money " oxiiac'ted fi cm the people ; and yet the Ion. gentleni.in when he iiiado such n remark as thai -when he so cleserihed one of the principal sources ot the n venue of this country -must have been aware tiiat he hinis.'lf was participat- ing in that blood money, us lie sits in this House, and gives his atlention to the atfairs of the country, for which services on his part he is jiaid a certain allowance. Hon. Mr. Fi.ixr — 1 am willing' to take my share of the responsihility. Hon. I\[r. CoHNW.vl.L- -The lion, gentleman, who succeeded him (Mi-. Iteesor). "r was glad to lind, was in accor.l villi t!."^ principle wliicli is ailvocated bv tin- mo- tion now before I he House. H ) \ cut so far as to say tli.it under the cireumstanceii ho would be inclined to suiipoit that motion, although at present ho did not feel that ii was brought forward in ;i proper or satisfactory way. However, we maT f'>el sure that, wiiatever may le the i-esult to-diy of the vote on this motion before the House, hereafter we shall lia\e the valuable as^-istance that that hon. gentleman i.s able to atTord ns. The hon. member from Ottawa also luldressed the House in the distinct an. I earnest manner with which he always approact'cs a i'tioiis whi.li I dc not think will bear looking into, or whicli should have the 'brce nl argument when addressed to n deliber- ative body Rucli as this. In tic early ]iart of his speech he (juot.cd the statistics of crime which hid been given in iMassacliusetts to a certain coinmissiou that was sent tlun-e l>y the viovernment ot the iJoiiiinioii to iiujuire into the .-subject of the eli'ect of prohibitory legislation, and he attempted to show that in a certain year when the prohibitory law in .Massuchu.setts was not in force the amount of crime was far in excess of that of any other year in wliich the prohibitory law was in force. Now, it is very well ninlerstood that statistics are only vahiaLle to a certain extent. It is known tla.t it is easy to jiut any interjaetation on them that the speaker or writer wishes 'o impress upon the imblic. Looking on this particular jioint, I should imagine that those statistics to which he alluded only prove.l this fact — that most prob; Idy in that year to which he alluded when crime was much larger than in the succeeding year the state of dejircssion in biisi ne.ss atfairs, and the destitution existing in Massachusetts, most probably afforded i>i:i'.\TK IS Tin: sksath. 10 :im|'!H|i''ri'y cii'i Im (ilr;ii'ly iii.irki'iis, wlieu thpr« w |)|i'iity o| I.iliiMir otViM'iiii.^ ti» tlios't \\ Heiircn of »Mi)|'loyiniMit, luul rotiHcijnontly tliriiiii;li tliat iiliiiiuliiiicd of ••tii|ili»yiiiM;it, th^ iif'i'imM(irii"< cif lifo uri- ciisily |ir(»'ui't'd iiy lin' |i(iiiiiliiliiiu — tlicfc JM iKiiliiii'^ lii{i> „lui.t fxtciit of ri'inio i'\isiiii'4 wliirli is iilways t'oiiiiil wlii-ti ciiriiiiislaiici'S of an ailvcist iv facts. i>r that it is liorni' out liv cxncri- cncc. W'hi'ii a house is lie'cnsfd it is a jmlilic house. It is ii house that is open to entraiict? at all seasn. It is o|i('ii as well to ordinary persons as policemen, and iiinlcr such circuinstanpfs it is very dilliciilt for any sejlei" of siieli compounds to deceive the }iut the lion. incivased worry, biistlo ;iiul excitement of life. Wo ail livo at railroad speed now as compared with the stato of existence in the i:i.st coiitnry, or even in the earlier half of thi.s century, and to that, MO doubt, is due the fact that insanity has been during a certain niimba' of vears iiast lartrelvon the increa.-.e. ] do nirits as eonipared with the efl'tx:ts produced by a sensible use of manufactured l.>everages which are absolutely innocuous and in some cases beneficial to all human beings. Owing to his i)raetice in that honourablt; profession to which ihe hon. gentleman belongs — a ))racti^e which I am informed lias been both varied and extensive — he has been able to bring to tlu; discussion of the question the light of professional and scientific knowledge, and I feel sure that every meml>er of this House listened with interest to the remarks which he made, and the Illustration whicli he aii'jrded. Uc has treated the subject from a professional, it-- well as from a comnuni sense, point of \iew, but it is to the latter point of view alone thai; 1 must confine my.seif I do not know that it is neces.sary ntixW to (;nter into the (piestion of t-lie right of Parliament to enact such a law as this wliicli wo are now discussing; in Buch cases as these, might is right essentially, and Parliament has exercised that right already. 1 even believe that Parliament might, if it .saw fit, in furtherance of that National Policy .scheme which has received sucii acceptance fi'om the public generally, enact that in futun; all Canadians should drink nothing but milk and water, or should be vegetarians, or should live entirely on oatgieal, or should in future clothe themselves only in CanatUan homespun cloth. Looking at it in that, way there is no limit : Parliament can enact any laws which it si'cs fit, and, in that connection, I remember now that the hon. gentleman from Maiklintn the other day made reference to a certain celebrated tlivoice case which several years ago occuined the attention ofthisHou.se for one or two onj-ecutive spssions. in making that ref- erence the hon. gentleman naivelv remarked that the learned judges of the Hu- preme Court have to this ilay ]Knnted to that particular di\oree act as example to what lengths Parliament n.aM go when it cho.so to do so. 'I'lit? hon. gentleman for- got to mention, however, ihat such referenctis on the ]iart of the leariitMl judges must have been altogether made in surprise and wondi.-r at such action of Parliament, and not as tending to show tiiat the jtidges wi're impressed with the wisdom of l*ar- liament when they did |iass such an act as that to which he alluded. So it is with the temperance question ; Parli;;-nent may duuhtless do what it sees fit, liut, for the sake of any reputation we mn i iiav(> for delilierati\e wisdom, for the sake of oui- reputaiion lor fair and h ni' ?,t dealing with all classes of society and all sections of tlie iieoide, and for (las sake of the high obligations and duties which ar.' incumbent on each and all of us, let us be careful how we act in tliis matter, and that we lio not bcroiiie parties to in- jtistice from a disinclination to combat thi! exfreiue vii-ws of tl os(; who have made hobbies of tliis question, but who, we must confess, ha\o certain moral grounds on which to found their argiuneui. [ take it that a nnuilier of Parliiiinent who sano- ti'ins the pa.ssiiii; of a law of iliis kind, witluait taking Ihe, trouble to o]ipose it, because of a certain fei-liiig of disiiuliuarion to takii'.g an adver.se \iesv to those who take certain moral grounds for thcii advociicy of any particular uuwsure — I tak(! it that one who does this, aiul ] erha])s on such insullicieut groumls supports sm-h legislation, is absolutely recreant to his duties as a member of this Hoiis(^ or of the Lower llju.se. I look upon .such a representiti\e as tiolhing mori! or ie.ss than a time s.n'ver, wiio, lor the sake of .lis owi> immediite convenience, neglects the high duties iliat have devolved Lpon iiim, neglect»s the interests of the jieople ; and 1 ap[»eal with coiilidence to the ^^euale of Canada to throw otV the apathy whicli has uppi DEBATE IX THE SENATE. 21 •^liuUy foi- Jill or sig- u that, tlie iiati ly Olid (mI, it does wlieii Ihrt Lion of the Didd nevor m. guiitle- twecii the j)ro(liiced oils and in lonourablf iiifi)riii('d discusision feel Hiire whicli he ijl'l-t IVuiii \'u:\\\ but con line lion of the is.sir.g ; ill L'isi.'d that iKU'unou of the jiublio milk and fsliouhl in : it in tliat. Ill, in that otlii'i- (lay :o orcupied It,' that r<'f- f the Sii- xaiiiphi to li'nian for- idi,'i'>i nuiHt ai'lianiciit, in\ of I'ar- it is with ut, I'or tlu! vO of OUl' .•it'ty and llilij,MliollS us. It't ics to in- avo niado rdiind.s on rt-ho Hano- l1|)l)()St! it, t hose who -I tak(! it lorfs HiK'h or of thi> SH 1 1 1, 111 a i tilt! high ; and J vliich lias hitlierto ch.iractciiz' d their action in tliis iin|iortaut matter; and to ivnicmber that there arc higher duties than, for the men; saki' of appoaranci^s, to pander to the wishes of the small party in this House, or of tli<> small section of the ]ieoplo who desire this legislation ! I think it is almost unnrc(>ssary to say anything further than what the lion, gentlein.ui who introduced I his ainendnieiit has said as to the diSerenco which exists between the effects of the ns(! of such liquors as are men- tioned in the amendment, and the elfccts of the t'onsuiiiptioii (^f ai'dent sjyirits. It is acknowledged on all sides that the use of sjiirits is in miuiycas(>s most prejudicial and deleterious to health; whilo, on the other hand, wo all know thac no such efl'ects attend the moderate use of milder bev(M-ages. The robust health of the l)opulation of the rural districts of I'.ngland, who use little else but beer, provea how harmless the use of such a lieverage is to the human liody. The public liouses of th(! rural districts of England are licensed to sell nothing but lieer, and the result is that, although a man may, no doubt, drink beer until he muddles away his senses, yet tlu re is not that mad-like ami dangerous intoxication resulting from the use of beer as there is from the use of anh.'ut spirits. Again, in Knghiinl Ixter is so com- monly drunk that in all gentlemen's houses it is used as commonly as iced water is luive with us in Canada ; the beer l)arrels ai'e always on tap, and all the servants in the house, whether male or female, are allowcnl to go to the barrel and draw a glass of beer at any time of the day if they see tit to do so, amino ill elfects have arisen from such a practice. Again, th(^re is another point to take into consideration : the difference in the cost of drinking beer and of drinking ardent spiritsHias a restraining influence on beer drinkers. In Xorway — -a country with whicli F was at one time well acipiainted — I rememljcr perfer^tly that any man %vho wished to get diimk could readily do so on the comuiou drink of tlio country — corn brandy — for a smn which does not exceed in vali'.(? (! cents of our money ; while, if he confined himself to the excellent spruce beer, which is also tin; production of thc.t country, he mighti hav(! drunk until he was sick before the same effect could have been jtrodui.'ed on iiim. So it is here in Canada with us ; a man can for 10 cents provide himself with some villainous rye whiskey in sufficient quantity to make most men wild and reckless ; but tlu; same amount exjiended on lii.dit be r would not jiroeure him more than a [lint of that wholesome beverage, a quantity which could have no ellect on him ; so it sicms to mo — looking at the matter from this common sense point of view- — that everything pointi"! to the wisdom of legislating towards encouraging the consumption of bein- rather than of ardent spirits. S>i it is with light wines. It is well kiiowrt — it is undeniable — that in M-ine ])rodncing countries, wht'i-e the general pojiulation are accustomed to drink native grown light wines, intoxica tion is comparatively unknown. 1 am sure that any one who is accustomed to the liealthy, life gi^•ing and invigorating properties of claret can never fail to admit the valiu^ of that liquid. ■ 1 believe that some such stimulant is more or less necessary to many peojile ; 1 bi'lic \e thiit peo|ilo whoso ancestors have liecn for gen,';rations in such ]iositions in life as enabled them to provide themsidves with the luxuries of their times absolutely require such light stimulant. ( in the other hand, if hc take the wild denizen of tlu' plains, the native red Indian, whoso progenitors jieriiaps for still longer jieriods have never been accustomed to drink anything but water, 1 think we may well make a comparison between him and tlie white man as lo intelligence ami phvsique, and it will be largely to the ndvantage of the latter. 1 think that ex[ieiieiice an 1 coiumon sense coml)ined point to the consumption in reasonable (juantitii's of wholesome manufactured Ijoveriiges as ab.soliitely saliit:irv and necessary to civilized man ; and I shouhl like to see this pro[)osed amendment made to the Tempera:u'e Act so that in counties which avail themselves of the giMieral provisions of that Act those accustomed to the use of such beverages should not iiv future be denied them. Tfon. ]\!r.Vil>.\i, — Hon. gen'leiiien,if you havoberui paying, :is T presume you liavo, thosanie close attention to this lebate that 1 have, I think you must have been strui'k, •IS I have been struck, with th : entire absence of iiny reference to the Bill which I THE SCOTT ACT. hiive inti'Oiliie(!(l iiit^o tlii-i IfDUsi", iiud tlio tliird I'cudiiiLj of wliicli I li;i\i' now inoveil. It is most extiiiuivlinury tliat all tlio arj^iiiiieiits advaiiL-cd in tliis ili.scussiuii, IVoiii ln'f^iu- ning to fiul, havo apjiareiitly Ih-oii (Uivctoil aLtJiiiist a law which it seeins to be tho desire of Hoiii" iiit'iiihcrs to repeal, and wJiich repeal lias uo natural or uecoHsarv connection with tlie IJill which is now before us. I must confess that, consideriiii^ the character fur fairness and ujirii^ht dealinij for wjucli our lion, friend tho Senator fronj Halifax is distinijuished, or claims to be distinL^nished, 1 am surprised that ho above all men — ))crhaiis I sliould speak in the lauiruagt! of the I'injj; to be fully understood liy him-- should strike below the belt in Ins present action, for reidly the amenilmext which he has moved to the Dill which is now before the House foi' the third reading is an amendment of that character, an unfair attack on the Timu- perance Ai^t of 1878. I appeal to lion, gentlemen, has not every argument which has been used by himself, and by every one who has supjiortcd him in this House, been directed, not against the BUI now before tho .Semite, but against the Act of 1S78, and against prohiltitory legishition in any shape ] The whole tendency of the arguments which have been brought under our notice lias been against all ])rohibi- tory legislation. f repeat, if the lion, gentleman had acted with the uprightness and fairness we should ex)»ect from one of his standing, and which he claims to bo guided by, he would have brought in a bill to rei)eal the Act of 1878, and not attack it in this undeihand manner by an amendment which strikes at its very existence. It is useless to deny that this is the object which lion, gentlemen have in view. It is useless to stand here and say that th i amendment can bo attached to the Act of 1878, and that Act remain in tull force and ellect. I contend it can- not be so, and however innocent this amendment may appear at lirst sight it will destroy the usefulness of the Act of 1878. 1 speak not merely in my own name. I am not giving utterance merely to my own personal opinions, but 1 sjieak as tho accredited mouthpiece of thousands and tens of thousands of tho ])eople of this country vlien I say that the Act on owv Statute book, which has never i)een fairly tested, and agaiiiht which no comjilaint has been made, would be virtually repealed and its usefulness destroyed by the adoption of this aniendmeut. Wt; should be acting with great inconsistency in the discharge of our legislative duties were we to do so. How did we get that valuable law { Was it not shown to you yesterday by the hon. Senator from Ottawa that that measure was the result of an agitation carried on for years, an agitation which at last culminated in the laying on tho table of thi.s House petitions signed by about 500,000 of o\u' jieoplo ? In answer to those petitions this legislation was granted, and against that Act not a single objection has been presented to this House. Xo one has complained against it as a measure not calculated to promote the prosperity and liap[»iness of the countiy ; l)ut, because an individual takes a fancy, instigated, probably, liy some wlio.se in- terests are greatly at sUikf! in this matter — by [>ersoiis interested in the manurac- lure of li(pi(>r Hon. ^Ii'. Ai.MOX — I rise to a tpiestion of order. The hon. gentleman is attributing motives to me. Any ))erson who knows me is aware that I act on my own imiml ea, and not as a puppet with strings to be pulled by other [leojile. JTon. I\Ir. A'lii.M — I ha\e .lo intention to impute motives, and I am sorry if I have used any language which would bear that signilicatioii. 1 lielieve the hon. gentleman stands in aliout the same ])osition with resjiect to the temperance nuestiou which I occupied twenty-five years ago, and T believe, fro'ii what I know of his ch raeter for kindness and uprightTie»;s, and from the intercNt whieh he manifests in the wi'lfare of the country, that when the light which has daw.ued on my mind during the last twenty-tivo years has daw led upon his lie will advocate as strongly a.s I now do the adojition of prohibitory 1 'gislatiou. The hon. gcnthMuan, in his opening remarks, gave us a very pathetic narrative of scenes which he had witnessed or hoard of. These scenes are not tirw to us. They ai'e the every day scenes in oui country, which have forced themsehes upon our notice, and which have; led tern- peranco peojde to seek for legislation to repress, and, if possible, destroy tlio tralHc 1 DEI] ATE IN THE SEX ATE. 23 wliicli has given rise to tlioso .-ict'iies — to put ;ui eiul to tlio paiipcrisiii, orinif, disease. Jiiid (ieatli wliieli result from the excessive use of intoxieatiii;,' drinl;s. Wo are banded togetlier to tiy to deliver our country from tliis thni,l in the direction their friends and advocate's imagine they will. It is the dee]> rooted conviction, gathered from long ob.servation iid experience, of those peophi who have taken an interest in the tenqieraneo inovemeut, that legislation in onler to be etfectivi! n)ust lu> thoroug'i, and ti'at tlnTO must not be left a door open for the free sdo of tho.so stronger intoxicating liquors under the name of beer, cider and light wines. There are no light wines in this country. They cannot be importeil into iind kept in Canada inuler the present circumstances to supply the need of people, sujiposing it bo a need. What, would lie the consini|uenee ? If this section shuuid bo added to the iJill, and the Kill become the law of the land, you will have so called light wines in great abundance all over the country, but they will not come from the grape. They will just b" concoctions mixed ijy men skilful enougli tu pro- duce a li(pior ha\ingsouie faint resendilanct; to the wiiu'S whose names tiny b(-ar. That will b-' resultof such legislation as this. Our duty, however, is not to discuss this question in tin* way it has l>een discussed here, as a moral matter, and a matter perhaps all'ecting tin; character and circumslances of individuals, so nnich as its inlluetice tq)on the public welfare. W(! are here as legislators. It is our bounden duty to take olUcial notice of auythin*:; by which the public well b.'ing, the health, prosperity and peace of the people of Canada is afl'ected ; and aeli.-.g on tins high motive, \\^^ are legislating, not so mneli for the piomotion of ti'm[)erance in diink- ing Ol- total abslini'iice, as for the peace .md well being of the country W^s are legislating, as we hope and cx'poct, to ditninish the extent ot drunkenness, and 24 THE SCOTT ACT. crime, and lunacy, and pauperism, whicli nro every day increasing in our midst. Wt' lionostly and lirinly In-iicve tluit legislation of tlie kind which we placed on our Statute bouk in 1S78 will do nnicii to etleet tliis desirable enil, and wo wish to have an oppurtui- 'y afforded for the people to give tho existing law a fair trial, and con- Hequent'.y sve do not think it is couHistent with our duty as legislators to allow any interference witii it in this early stage of its history, before the country lias had ail opportunity of seeing whether it will realize what wo ex[)ect from it. 1 cannot fol- low my lion, friend tVoni Halifax through all the various ramblings and allusions to poetry, sci(.'nce and religion, in which he indulged. I may, however, obsei ve that ho tiiought tit to I'efcr to that sacred Ijook, which 1 am svu'e every lion, member regard-s. iis 1 do, with reverence and lespei-t, in support t)f his argunvnts, but in so quoting from that book the hon. gentleman should be more careful ol the selections that he makes when lie endeavours to show that the tencliings of the sacred volume justify and sujiport the views he entertains as to the use of wini-. !Ie should be careful, also, to see what it says on tlie other side of the q\iestion. lie ;,ave us a veiy pleasing extract — jiaitofa ]ioetical descri])tion in l'];istern hypeiboie, in the passage wliich he ([uoteii, but 1 would ask the hon. gentleman, if he wislies to get jiractical instruction from that book, not to have his niiud exclusively taken up with these poetical allegoiies and similes, but just to ttirn a few ]i:iges iiai-k in the same book, and he will tiiid the same writer speaking in terms which are not hyper- bolical or figurative, but plain, real and juaciical. What does that writi r tell us : '• Wine is a mocker, strong clriiik is lagiiig, anil whosoeva' is tleceivud thereby is not wise." In a jmge or two from that the same authss of eyes >. Tiiey that tairy long at the \\ine.'' Hon. ilr. Al.Mo.v — "That tariy long at the wine." Hon. Mr. Viual — He might also find another juissage, " LokK' not upon tlu' wine- when it is rtd, when it giveth its colour in the ciij), when it moveth itself aright ; at the last it bitcth like a serpent and stingeth like an adder." These are the words which that book will tell him of the character and tendency of these things which he ventures to assert are spoken of witli commendation in its pages. Per- haps lie hiis not analysed the original text ; perhaps he has not looked back to the Hebrew origin of those word.s in investigating tliese various ])a.s.sageH. It is a question which, in a jilace like thi.s, 1 could not with propriety, and, therefore, wo\ild not, enter u])on ; but wh^n the authority of such a book is sougiit to be lirouglit before tis, it is only fair that its statianents on the otluT side should be quoted. We look to England for an examjile in most of our legislation, but we have in this matter i>i local luohiijition, taken a sie]) in ailv;Mice of the honoured fatlieiland of most of us. 1 was over in that country during last summer, and happily was there at the very t".me when the lOiiglish House of Commons atlirnu'd iiy a very decisi\e vote the [irinciiile of local la-uhibi- tion. They so ajiproved of this very statute on our books— the Act of IST'^ — that the English House of (\mimoiis issui d an order for the reprinting of that law for circulation amongst the members of Parliament and throughout the kingdom. No higher compliment could be paid to the legislation of a colony than such an order from the Hritish .House of Coiinnons, and we ha.d tlie ]ile'asure of hearing from the lips of the I'reniier himself the acknowledgmeul that the House having jiassed that tesolution it became the duty of the Government to frame a me.isuro in order to caily uut tin object urged by .^ir -Vilfred Lawson. Shall we then, while England is about to follow our example— \\ idle our la\v is being approved and about to be brought into foiV(> tliiMi; — shall we ,ike a retrograde step, and, by the adoption of an amendment like this, destroy till real ]n-aetical usefulness of the Art of 1878 < Becau.so, if that amendment should be carried and attached to the Bill, 1, for my part, and I hope that gentlemen whu favour tin; temperance cause would join me, M'ould move for leave to withdraw the ]jill altogc-tlier. I am quite aware that tho DEBATE IN THE SENATE. 21 House has lioanl ])prhaps (M1o\ij;Ii on tliis suliit'ct and at this time. There are inanj points I riii;,'lit with some satisfaction to mysolf, at any rate, (Uvcll ; Imt T fovijear doing so, and sliail hring my remarlfs to a clos« sini|ily witii a few statcnicnts us to the t'lt'oi't whicli our action in this Cliamber is likely to have upon onrselves, our stand- ing in thtt Dominion, and n[)on tlie well being of the commnnity around ns. It is a faet which lias afibrdci] me very great pleasure that throntdiout the lencrtli and breadth of tlie land tin' value of the S(.'nate hfis been more full}' appreciated in con- sequence of its acti(jn upon the temyiei'ance (]uestion than for anything else which we have ever done when wo differed from the House of (!k)mmons. J have had thin assurance from a number of persons interested in this moi'al leform. When they fouml that (hw Si'iia'e last year refused to accejit an amendment made in the House of Commons which would have had the effect of vitiating the whole temperance law, thci'e was a fcling of relief throughout the oountry, and I have heard many and many a one say in all sini'erity, not merely from the lips, lint from the heart, •• Thank (iod we have a Senate." Shall we recede from tliat high jiosition now t Shall we be recreant to the trust confided to us ! Shall wo now with our own hands destroy that prestige we have gained by our wise action in the past 1 Oh, let it b(! far from us. I^et us adhere to the ptinciph-s of right which have hitherto infhienced us in giving to the country this beneficent legislation, and let us not destr(jy, for the sake of arguments which may have some weight, but which should not have weight enough to r(!verse our opinions ujion this subject — let us n.ot destroy the law of 1878, but rather maintain it in all its integrity. 1 do trust that the ivport may go out this evening to the whole country that the Senate is still true to the interests of the jioople ; that those interests are safe in its hands, and that we cainiot bo induced from any motives to go back tipon that beneficent legislation which we gavt> three years ago at the request of so many tliousamls of our people. Hon. Sir Am;\. C'.\mi'1u;li. — I thiidc that tiie advocates of teuiperauce are often unfair to tliosi; who are 0(iposed to their vic-ws. 'I'liey constantly represent the evils which result from excessive drinking aiul the abuse of liipiors, and en- deavour to put their oi)]>onents in the position of advocating or defending these abuses. Now, nobody ad\()cates oi- didends anything of the kind. The hon. gen- tleman from Halifax, whomovei' he amendment, drew the distinction in languaga anossibly into.xicate unless you drink some inordinate (piantity of it \ Why are the people to be deprived of that indidgenco, especially tliose who have no homes to go to, and cannot get it at their firesides? Tliis legislation is directed against tho pool", by those wiio are not ad'ccted by thi.' restrictions which it imposes. Why should not the whole community be permitteil to use beer if they like it, iind when, as the tempei'ance people admit, it cannot injure them f I am told that some of the most ard(!nt disciples of my hon. friend here are ([uito willing to see the ii.se of lieer introduced. Hon. yiv. Scott — 0!i, no '. Hon. Sir Alk\. L'AMnua.L — I do not like to use nauics, but I lia\e had cited to me the names of very eminent di.sciple.s of thit sciiool who think it would not be hurtful to use beer, and I think they are right. To the best of my judg- ment, nothing could more coiuluco to tempc'raiije than to allow the usi; of such liquors. Yon cannot interfere with men arbitrarily ami tyrannically, as the Temper- unco Dili does, »i\nd say they shall drink no intoxicaiing liquors. You must allow people some latitude in gratifying their passions and desires. To shut tliein oil' iiltogether is sure to bring about sly drinking, illicit trallio and unmanly habits. «.;ive them latitude; do not say, "you shall not enjoy the rights of your nmnhood, the liberty which (iod has given you; you cannot hiye a gla.ss of brer in yotu' own house if yt)u want it I' Can iiiiythiiig be more tyrannical or contrary to one's convictions ol the right of self action and control man should possess in a civilized country ? Nothing could be more contrary to the principles which should govern legislation than to deal in tliut kind of way with the subjects of the Crown. Ceiitlemen justify it and say that it is the only way to prevent the abusf* of licjuor ; I sav that it is not the only way. Kxperit-nco shows that in countries wluire li(pior is commonly erance. 'J'he Legislature of ( »ntario have shown that they do not think it could have that efTeet. They d'-aw a distinction between tlie use of beer and of ardent sjiirits. During the recent .session they passed an act licensing tlie sale of beer as distinguished from s[)irits. Hon. Mr. Scott — \yo-'\ it go beyond lager beer \ Hon. Sir Alex. CamI'HEIJ, — ^'es, lager beer and strong beer, f am told. There may be some dillicnlty in ascertaining whether wines ari> light or strong, but it is not insuperable. Jtcan be got over, but there can be; no ditliculty about lager and common beer. Hon. gentlemen woukl be less tyrannical, and accom[)lish their jturpose by allowing the usi! of beer and of light wines, if they eotild be kept in this climate for a sulliciently long time to justify jieisons in purchasing and selling Uicni. Hon. Jlr. Scott — Did not the hon. gentleman sui)port iiroliibition in the North- West, including beer \ Hon. Sir Alex. Camphkll— Yes, 1 think 1 did, because it was very necessary to prevent the sale of intoxicating ii(pioi-s to Indians. I suiqiorted it liecause Indians get frenzied upon ardejit si)irits, and because there svas no boer there. If you fui'ni.sh intoxicating liquors to Indians you ex{)ose those who are aljout them to extreme dangei', but that is not the case in the suggestion now made that this A(;t should lie .so alt(!red as to allow tho use of beer. It will not destroy the Scott Act. That is an unfair argument used to prevent ns fioin doing that which we think best in tho interests of the community, and in the cause of t(!inpcrance. W'e all want to see tempei'ance ])romoted, but we do not want to see tyrannical legislation to interefere uiuifcessarily with the ordinary a[ipetites of men when they can be indul:,ed so harmlessly as liy the use of beer. I deprecate the spirit in which tho Temperance Act was conceiv.'d. As originally introduced, the measure was not only to be brought in force I'V a minority, but it was to inter- fore with existing rights, destroying large establishments, and trades which hinged upon them ; there was no sy.stem of compen.sation, and tho whole ex|)ense of the movement was to l>e thrown u])on the (.bncrnmcnt. Every ^jrecautiou was taken to ensure the carrying out a tyrannical measure, conceived in a tyiannical spirit. Here is an elVort to modify the liarshness of the Act, and, becausi- it is in the in- terest of truo temperance, I give the amendment my support. Hon. Mr. Truukl — It is not my intention to answer th(> very forcible argu- ments which wo have just heard from tho hon. Postmaster (ieneral, but .some of I 28 THE SCOTT ACT. his assertions have ronilereJ it necesstiry for HOino of us who support the Bill to exi)laiti wliy we sh;ill vott> against tho aiiuiinhncnt. The lion, gontlonian says thai it is tyrannl(-!il h'gislation to (U'privu the pnMio of the use of li((iu)r, but ho is awara that whore liberty is abused tlie only remedy is in the restriotion of liberty in » way tliat under ordinary ciirumstaneos wo
rty. Why is it done? J5ecau.se it is neces.sary, in tiio jniblic interest, to remedy the evils resullinjj; from an abuse of liberty. It is the same in this temj)erance legislation. I freely admit that the ordinary use of lighr wines and becsr is not injni'ious, but when we see tlie evil»s resulting from intemperance, and when experience has sliown that the only remedy for these evils is in total prohibition, I say it is the duty of tho.se who are moderata drinkei-s to dejirive themselves voluntarily of the \ise of li.piors, for the public wel- fare. Let us act consistently. Two years ago we discn.s.scd this (piestion thoroughly, and a niajoiity in both Houses of Parliament decided to give the people an oppor- tiuiity to try the elfect of j)rolubition. That law has not yet had a fair trial any- Avhere. Would it not be better to let it stand a few years longer, in order that it may be thoroughly ..'sted. Tf the restdt should not be as .satisfactory as its advo- cates anticitiated then tliere will be an unanswerable argument in favour of modify- ing or re{)ealing the law. If a bill had been introduced for the repeal of tiio Scoti Act, I could understand how this debate could have taken place very properly, but this aniendni'-nt is of such a character that if it is adopted tin; House could not fairly deny the ju'omoter of the Bill the right to withdraw it, and the effect of it« withdrawal would be to deprivi* the tempei'ance peoi)le of the amcndnients which are considered necessary to put the law in oiieration. And so the amendment would be to destro\ the Bill. Hon. Mr. Giraud — Before voting on this (piestion, I wish to remind the leader of this House that [ have always been ready to support the lion, member. But in this case T am sorry to dilfer from him. When the present Bill w,is introluced int.o this House, I undertook to sustain my hon. friend from Sarn'a in all the amendmente which would be reipiiied to render the Act of 1878, known as the Scott Act, mors workable and more easily introduced by the people. I knew at the time that this Bill was introduced that there would be opposition to the amendments, but as they were looked upon as necessary, and dis, poverty and vic(! will prevail. That there is much piospi rlty at tJie pre- ge.nt time and that money Is so plentiful tliat it eaa be obtained at four or live per cent, in most ]iartH of tho Dominion, excei)t in JIanitoba, is due to the prevalence of tomperanco principles that havo tak»;i root amongst our people. I will, |)erhai)s, talio the lilnu'ty, li.dbro resuming my seat, to recall to the memory of tlie hou. feutleman from Halifax, anIio h;i-s introducetl this iiuiendment, some teachings of the sacred volume. He will find tliero all that is nece.ssary to prove to him, I liunk, that intoxicating drinks have at all times been looked upon as very d.ingerous — «ven native wines. I will r(!fer him to the first pages of tiie lUlde — to a di^scriplion of where native win(! was for the first time introduced into this world, an(i he will 80*j the bad results of the use of tho irative wini'. The maker of the wine bec'ame drunk, and when in that state one of ins children, wiio was tliwe by accident, laugh- ed at his father, and his father (tursed hiui. Tho consequence of that cursi^ is now known to that degenerate population in the old woi'ld, who bear to this day the mark of tho malediction of th(;ir ance.ster. The hon. gentleman will find from the Bible that tin* introduction of wine into tlu^ world had nail resul'.s from the very be<''Uinin<'. Hon. gentlenuMi all admit the disiraliility of abolishing tin- use of ardent liquors, but how is it to be done'? If the (io\ernnu'nt are ready to supiiress the manufacture and sale of strong drinks in the Dominion, 1 would vote for such a law, but I snppoM' it wotdd not l)e ea.sy to adopt such a jiolicy at the present time. Wo all ailmit that the temperance movement has madi; great progress, and we see at the pr(!sent day that the consumption of intoxicating liipiors is not one-halt what it was a few years ago. Let us give the Temperance Act of IfilS a fail- trial before we pronounce against it. I look at the ]in)[iosed ameiidnuMit as an o[tpositiou to the principle of the Vet, and, idthough 1 feel sorry to difler from the hon. leader of tho House in this ui tter, 1 will vote against him on this amendment. Hon. Sir Ai.kx. Cami'hkll — It is an open question. Hon. Mr. CJiUAUi) — I will veto for the Bill to amend tho Temperance Act of 1878, and against the amendment proposed by the hon. member from Halifax. Hon. ^Tr. Aikins— Before tins vote is tiken, inasunich as I introduced a similar bill last year, I desire to say snniething in reference to the principle of tin- lUll, and perhaps I may refer to some of the remarks that have been made during the di.s- oussion on this suliject, particularly Viy the hon. gentleman who moved the resolution in amendment. It is seldom that I listen to temperance si)eeches, but I must say one of tho most tellinj; tem|ieranee speeches I have ever heard was delivered by tho hon. gentleman from Hulifixx in introdi'cing his amendment. I never heard any- thing more touching or telling than the way in which ho jiictured the fond mother jifltening for the footsteps of her son coming home ut a hite liour of the night, meet- ;]() 77/ A' SVOTT ACT. ing liini at llic door, iiiiil directing liis tioinhliti^' stops (o liIs (.■liiiiul>i'r, lio|iiii<; tliat no |)('rsoii wijiild Ipivo situ liini ooiiu^ into tiio lioiiso in tliat, ooiiditi(jii. Ilo n:t'frro(l not only to that, but to tho skeleton in neai'ly every lainily's closest. I ;im latlicr inclinrd to tliink, liou. gontliMnon, tliat thcn^ arc very few faiiiilii's indeed in wliieli \\w slceletou niij^lit not bo found in tiio closet of their house — the result of intox- icating ih'ink. Very lew, indeed, hon. yentlenu'n, in tiiis eountry lia\e not been tonelied peiliajis in liieir tenderest feelings, and just in tiie same way. Hon. Mr. Ai.mo\ - - 1 tliink T stated that was llie e (Feet of the use of rum and whiskey. 1 did not say I l)elieved this would have been the result if such a man hail eontined himself to drinks such as I hav(* describeil, eontainin;^ not more than 10 jier eent. of aleohol. Hon, i\Ir. A IK INS — Tain cjnite willing to accept what the lion, gentleman intended to say. aiul perliajis diil say, l)ut wi- will go a little further. After niakingthis touching I'bfen'iice, the hon. gentleman referrt:d to two eeleiirated Seri[)turaleharaeters. -My lion, friend from Manitoba iuis just now referred to one of them. I do not thiidv there was any rum or any lirandy either in existence at that time ; so far as \ am aware I do not tliink the |iror'ess of distilhition was known at that time, a)id if tliei'ti was any evidence reijuireil that then^ is something wrong in the use of wine, F do not tliink stronger evidence! eouKl be addu(n,'d from that sacred book. Take the ease referred to by my hon. friend from ]Manitol)a, and the case of Lot — two more disgraceful scenes in t.iie liv(>s of two noble men are not recorded, in tli(> Bilde than those. If I reijuired anything to satisfy me that tlie use of wine was injurious, I les than those giv.ni by my hon. friend. Then ho not only travelled over the (jld Testament, but he went to the new. Let us hear his ri>ferences tliei-e as to the use of wine. He called our attention to that interesting event in the life of our Hlessed Saviour where water was turned into wine, and then I suppose would liave us draw the conclusion that, because wino was made Ijy Him there, tiiere is a justitication for the nse of the villainous com- pounds that aie niaufactuied and are classed under the name of wine, and tiow in nse. Why, lion, gentlemen, the stronge-st speech 1 ever hear>l made on any plat- form was made by the hon. gentleman frou ilalifax against his own admendment, and what T am suprised at is this : after haviiiu nii'/le so able a speech in fa\'our of temperance, that he was not convinced himself and did not ask the House to jieimit him to withdraw his amendment. Now with refei'ence to the Bill itself: I introduced a iiill similar to this one last session ; f stated then as I have stated before when this JJill was under consideration on a previous occasion, that the object of that Bill was to i-emedy defects in the Teini)erance Act, which the Secretary of State or the Government was charged with carrying out. The Bill of my hon friend from Sarniais introduced only to enable the carrying out of the Temperance Act successlnlly, and as it was intended by Parliament. The amend- ments have been explained to the House two or three times already, iiid yet we must have another amendment interjected into that Bill, ]u-oi>osed by my hon. friend from Halifax, and supported by m;iny hon. gentleiti.'u in this House, not in infer- ence to the Bill itself, but attacking the principle of the Scott Act. My belief is that if you introduce this amemliiuiit you virtually kill the Temperance Act. We are told tl'atlager beer, and strong lieer, and wines, contain only 10 per cent, of alcohol, and can be used under that amendment ; but how au; we going lo dis- criminate between them and strong liejuors, or .say whether the liipiors that ar.i sold contain only 10 i>er cent, of alcohol .' Hon. Mr. Devku House f -How 01) von do it now ; do vou not do it in the (Jiistom Hon. Mr. AiKiNs — The vei v fact of your placing a restriction on it is a reason why it should not be used. Tak al)0ut interfering with the liljerties of the people! Wiiy should 1 not take my glass of wiiiskey or rum if 1 wish to do so, and not like to di ink liger beer or wine, or other liquors mentioned in this amendments j)Hii.\ri: IX Tin: si:.\.\ti:. 31 Why slir)\il(l 1 not liiwi* my wliiskcy uii.U'f siidi rircmiisbiuc'ifH ! lint lion. ),'L>ut.le- inc'ii wlio sM]i|'ort tliis !inif'n(lin<*nt H«y "you hIiiiII not have whiskey or nnn, yon innnt (m'iIht t let yon take luiyl hint;," Now. I contend, as far as intcrforinf; witii tiio lihcrty ot'tlin snKji'ct is cohcim ned, tintt niv lion. fiitMKl'H nnicndnu-nt is inti'iiVrinj; ns much with my lil)erticH, it' 1 chose to drink mm, as tlic 'rcmpprani-i' Act is iidcrfcrini; with his. [ hold tiial it" tlici'c is anv tyranny almnt tlift 'rfiii|i('ratice Ad the cfaiisc In- is takinj; is lyrannical to tliosc who wish to indni;.;!) in tiic strouji^or drinks. Now, tlio lion, i^fntlomaii has rcti'irfd to the |)nl)lic analysis of liiinors, but ho mn.st know that there are not nioro than lialt a do/on jinlilic analysts in this J)oniinion to analyse the food and drink sold to iho ])('o]ilo of this eonntrv. Hon. Mr. Devkh — The Customs analyse every sample that comes in. lion. Mr. AlKlNS — But these drinks will lie maiintactnred in tlie country, luul how are w(i to e'.nploy analysts to i^oall over the country and ^o into every estah- lishnnMit to test the BtriMigth of the wines and liijuors being .sold in tiicm. A (,,'us- toms ollicer has no such jiower. lion. Mr. Ai.MON — The license law will <,'ive you that power. Hon. Mr. Aikins -We aic not dealing witli the license law ; wo have no jiowor to deal with it in this Parliament. Eveiy lion, geutleiiuui knows that this will Lo one of the eilect.H of this amendment; that under the guise ot wine all sorts of strong drinks will Ih; .sold. I state further that there is no penalty introduce 1 into this J '■ill, and that i)e(iplc can sell whatever liiiuor they )>lease without a penalty heing iuipused upon them ; and, unless the hou. geiitlemau who pro[)Ose.s this ameiul- uient provides some means for carrying it out properly, it would he better to re])eal the Hcott Act altogetlier, and introduce a Bill for that purpose. 1 lid not intend to say anything on this ([u 'staon, but I thought it was due to myself that I. should make these I'ew remarks. ITon. Mr. Wark 1 do not know that 1 sliould have risen at .all to address tlio House, but that I come from a province where this Act has been more exten- sively introduced than in any other part of the Dominion (excepting Prince Edward island, where it has been adopted by the whole ])ri)vince), and L would not occupy the time of the House were it not for this charge of tyranny that has been, made by hon. gentlemen who sujiport this amendment. I do not think that the Teii.perance Act is open to such a charge ; if I thought such a charge were merited I should be ashamed to advocate this measure or any other measure of the kind. There is one thing that struck me during the discussion, and that is, that those who are in favour of the amendment seem to hav(! paid very little attention to the effects of these mild drinks that they talk about. <^>ne member talks about the consumption of beiM' in l young men whose fathers were moderate vlrinkers, men who nev(!r drank to e.Kcess, who thonglit that they h;id set an example to their sons of moderation in drinking. I have .seen tlio.se young men, with tiieir companions, resort to public houses. The taste for liquor had Ix'en acijnireil, wine wa-J Viot strong enough, and they had resorted to brandy, or something as strong, and many of liiem went down to di'unkards' graves, 'i'his is a fact that cannot be denied. I m\;\\ state that the use of wine in even moderate quantity will beget si tasti> for alcohol, aiul the use of beer will produce the same eHect after a time. Neither wine nor beer will long satisfy that ap])etite. We, who advocate the tompi^'-ance cause, have not gone into Tin: SCOTT act: it witlumt (liif ooiisiilciation ; Wo see that tlioso who aro iiJilictod to tho usn of ■Iron;; drink ivi'ii |)Oor iiii.ii'iiil)U) croiilun'w ; wn .see oliuii'H who iiri; iiioihtratt; lirinkiii's, fciul otiicis who luo only youii^; Wc^jiiUKTs. If tlidri; wore no motloruto ihiiiki'is, rlriiukiinls woiiki soou ilit) out; Wiit, iiltlioiii^h wo sou tiioiu ilroppiiij^ into tiii'ii gnivfB tlay by iliiy, tiicir immlii-rs ait! not (iimiiii.shi'il, thcur ranks aro reoriiitcd iiom the iiioiU'ratf tiu- piililic iionses, wliicli arc tla; means by which unr young >ncn an; seduced into tliis downward course, tiiat wo can huvo them frcm ruin. Unh'ssw-e can stoji tiiis liceiisin;; syst(!m and siint up the taverns ; iinlc.ss wo can jiut a stop to these allurenienls whicii entice youni,' men to tlieir (h-struction, we ut^ver will accii'iiplish t)ur object. I am ni>t noini; to oioupy ynin- time on tiiis sub- ject, but I thought it was necessary to mike these remarks. It is my own oW erva lion of tlio effect of moderate (hinking ; it creates an appetite wliich grows and grows until the unfoitunate victim wiio accpiires it (hops into tho (U-iinkird's grave. Tliat is my own o.iservaiion of it ; I have seen it frei|uently ; I liave watclied its offocts even from the nse of beer. I remember seeing a discussion about the strengtii of beer ; I remember seeing a car-eful analysis of it, and, altiiough it was thirty years ago, I still remember it. It is this: that in a gallon ot ordinary strong beer ihero are three (piarts ami one pint of »vater — not always tlii! purest wati^r either -there i.s half a pint (jf alcohol ; thcr'e ia a small (piantity of extract of hop, and two uiuiecs of saccharine matter. Tlio only nutriment in the whole mixture ia tliia latter, but the beverage was not n.stid for this small (piantity of Uiitriineiit, but for the aleohi)!, anil to get tliis amount of alcohol the man was reipiired todiiuk tliree (piart.i and a pint of water. Again, when you come to liglxt wine, it is well understond that clianniagiii!, about which so much i.s saul, is not im|iorted into this country. 'i"he kcction of country whii'h produces cham]iagne is not al>le to pio luciil will make the law ly .mnical, beciu.se, as my lion. Iiiend from Fiedericton (Mr. Wark) has stated, the curse of drunkenness is gradual in its growth. .My icj':. friend fi'oiu Halifax, who introduced this amendment, has portrayed vhat evil in perhaps stronger terms than have ever lieen used in this House. He described it as putting a skeleton in every hou.se in tho land, from the palatial resilience of the rich to the cottage of the poor. The testi- mony of the live hundred tho isaiid [leojilc who came here petitioning for proliiliilion was that the evil was grai ual in its growth. The amendment to this Hill says that you may supply the peo )le of this Dominion to the extent of ten per cent, of alcohol, and this is the ingredii nt of those drinks that produces the evils complained of. The testimony of the wond is that drunkenness is gradual in itsgrowih, and that the visi; of alcohol, in small proportions, will create the appetiti;: i)roduce the disease. When ten per cent, will not satisfy the craving;? orod\iced, twenty-live and forty per cent, of alcohol i.s thyn demanded. Under this ameudiuent you pi'ovide T DKIiATK IS Tin: Si:.\.[TH. 3,i tliiit |)»'o|ilf( may drink \\\> to tin* cxtflut of ttii i»» rcfiit., luid iicr|uiiv an nppetita that is irr'o o|u'ratioii, delays aro nii'ivoidaUle, and consefpiontly it has l)oeu in op- eration for lint a few months anywhcrt*. and the i-esnlt cannot he ascertained yet. If we, hy this . iiiendment, utterly d(!stroy tho Act, tlio tcmporanco people, who form the ]aij,'er jiortion of every community, will say that wo Imvo been only cheat ini^ them, and that it was doin;; injustice to ourselves anil to tlie couii- try if we accept an amendment which will render the law worthless, ami which will be an insult to the wlijle temjieranct.' people of the l>ominion. Hon. IMr. K.\iM.n,\rn — Tf, as is alleged, this Hill, or inor" jirojierly the Rcott Act, can only he mane operative In' depri\iiig \\w great, mass of tho peojile of mild, nutritious, and refi-eshini; beveraj;es, by robbin;^ them of their lioer, then this misnamed temperance law is based, as I alleifif it is lias>'d, upon a foundation Avhieh is contrai'v to common sense and conscience, and repulsive to intelligent, dignitied, respccl.ible humanity. If we say tliat the mass of the people shall not us(! those light relVeshing lanerages which are pi-omoters of iioaltli and strength, and e.ss(mtial to building up the strength of weak constitutions, T say that such legislation is based upon principles whicii cannot and will not b(> tolerated. It is a tyranny fiom which the community will revolt, ami which must have a demoralizing ellect upon our Intel li- gei»t ]M'ople, whogenerally view it with cont<'mpt, and will not submit to tho coercion. Solium lo^n. uentlemon who defend that law siiy that the cxcossive use of intoxicating li(p;(irs is extending in the land. < )thei's tell us that the so called 'rcmperance Act is workini; so well that drunkenness is diminishing', ami thus it is apparent, that among themselves they cannot agree in their stat( inents. It is ijuit,e evident that the law has not the approval of the massifs of the people, who glory in their manhooil, persijual re- spect and S(>lf control. And they will resent such an atteiii[(t at fanitical legal tyranny. To say that a man of intelligence and eile.caticn. ii> this ag<' of onligliteiiiuenf, shall bf! ri'strained from taking his glass of wine or ti(>er, bevemges which are invigorat- ing to his system, is tyranny against which tlie whole community jiii^'ests. There is nothing in the r>ible which conilonins tlic use of li(pior in moderation, 'ait on the contrary it commends the temperate use of it. Ymi restrain a man's liberty for larceny, but aro you therefore going to imprison everyboily because otherwise some of them may liecome thieves i It is contr;vry to true civilization, common sense and intellig(>ncc!. It is clics, the same restraints, shall b? ajiplieil to moii who are not liainkanls i WouKl you provich^ for a healtliy, \ igiMous man, woultl you force upon liim who coverns himself liv tempemnce, the same retrimen tliat you impose on the sick, disease'l. or invalid 1 1 have in my haniis a j^amphlet pulilislnvl \>v Clianceilor Howard Crosby, D.D.. i.L.D., of the I ' Diversity of New York, wlio stands high as a theoloL'ian and scholar ; who seems to liave great deal of experience of the effects of total abstinence organizations, and the evils arising from that sys- tem of forcimj total abstinence on the community as the duty of all — a lega^zed tvrannv which is revolting to manhood and self respect — which he alleges only contirms and sti'engthens that dreadful curse of drunkenness. He says : — ■•• Ought the I'lan of t'tal abstinence to l>e adopted?' Is it a lieaUhfiil and b'^itiiuute method of doing S'vay with dr'mkenne^s? A man stands at a fireiit diMuivautn^'e wlio aiyUL-i in l>ehalf (it Lis i'olie! that the total alistinence systiiu is immoral, liecause he at omo o-Tjio-es liimself to the assaults of «ianderer«. who imimgn Ins niotivts and deny his honesty. (ladi. ealism lias so ruthlessly mobbed down iiideiiendent thought, by itfl intimiilating jirocesses, that editors who have no faith lu the total abstinence system still iijihold it m tlieir columns, and ministers deetn it jiruilei.t to say nothing against a cause so popv.lav in religious circleii. ilea are loth to come furwan'. and be bespat. tored with raud thrown in the name of truth and godliness. They are bith to lose the support anil good will of the luar.y whose fanatii isni des|iisis argument and brooks no opposition . Hence, it any one is constrained to speak, he is tempted to come forward as a humble apolo- gist, and modestly plead his cause with many couce^sions and coiu[iromises. Sur^'ly this is not for the .idvantage o: the truth .' '• lu this address I take no ajiologetic position. 1 carry the war into Africa. 1 have no contest with men. but with false principlc<. 1 assert that the total al'stiuence system is false in its philosopliy. contr.vy t'l revealeil reliuion. and harmful to the interests of can- coimtry. I charge upon this .-ysteui tne growth of drunkenness in our land and a general demoralization upon religious communities. And I call up^n sound minded, thiukuig men to stop the enor. initios of this lalse synteui. by uniting in reasonable and whnhsoine measures for the suiipres- sion of drunkenness, for the lack of which tins f.Use system has all its present suci ess. Be- tween fanaticism C'U one hand, and li'.entiousness on the other, theri' ouglit to be a large mass o! solid I'olk, whoso union and clfiioncy would moderate and reduce, if not clestroy. l...th extremes ' Is it not tyranny on tlie masses of the peojile that the mi u of vealth can buy ait'l till tlieir cellai-s witli all kinds of liquor to use and dispense it at their pleastire un- restrained, whilst the vast industrious class—the temjierate drinker — cannot e\en buy his glass of beer, much less any other beverage, no matter how sober a man may be, or how necessary it may be to lestore his health or to aid in sickne.ss ? Such tyranny cannot, and will not, be tolerated, and the resistance to such laws must react with a demoralizing eO'ect and give aid to the curse of intemperance. Chancellor Crosby gives a rational opinion on the best means of ]U'eserving teuijier- ance. The large mass of the jieople — a hundred to one — are oiiiioseil to this legislation, Ijecause it deprives numy of them of what is essential to their Jiealth, and never injurious wLnn properly used. And why are these to be deprived of their righ*,s and liberties because, forsooth, some few nn'ii di.sgrace theniselves, become insane, or jet drunk from the excessive use of li pior say that men who become insane, or get drunk, or commit larceny, .should In- deprived of their liberty, but those who do not oll'end in any of tho.se diiections should not ije restricted in this absun' and tyrannical nuiimei'. You musi educate the moral and religious lu-inciples of a man, and let him stand upright, let him feel that he is a man, if you wish lO prevent drunkenness, but to restrict .sucli a man in his liberties is d'-grading and revolting to his maidiood, and to common sense, and con- duces to vice and iiiteiuj»era:ice. Hon. Mr. Nortiiwood —As seconder of the anu'iidnient, I think I have a light to give my reasons t )r stipporting it. Although I can take my glass of wine, or jiossibly of whi.skey, or braniiv, tit times, if I think fit to do so, vet if T believed that a majority of the people of this country were in favour of the Scott Act, pure ami simple, as it stands, I sliouhl not have seconded the motion or given t my su]>port. P.ut I thiiik a majorilv of the people are not in favour of the S?ott .Wi^M hKnATE IX THK sKSATE. 3:> Act. and it' tills iirnomlnKMi; sln.oiil be jariied to-iiiglit tlie tenipfn-ance jjeople will be tiieinselvt's to Mainf. 'i"!i(\v wore not satistlecl with tlui Scott Act iis it stands, l)iit tlicy lirtvc l)con living tD aiiU'iid it from year to vcai'. Tlicv have so amended it that the vote of the ]>eoiiU' cannot be taken upon it at nir.nicijia] or sienei'al elec- tions, where the majority of the electors go to the polls. I have the opinion of one of the strongest temperance men between here and Sandwicii that the Scott Act will not work, lie is a consistent temperance man, and if he is of that opinio. i what is the use of introiliicin*.' it in any part of the country. I ijelieve if ih(! sale of lii,'iit wines and Ijeer were ]iernuttecl the Act wonld woi'k well, because tliose who hold licenses woidd not risk forfeiting them by sidi'ug stronger drinks, fs it right or ju'oper that the breweries ami distilleries arid hotels throughout the conntrv should be closed, that ])roperty should bo destroycsd, and business stopped, because .some people want this legislation .' If the Scott Act were adopted throughout the Dominion a large inimber of ]ieople would bo thrown out of em[)loymenr. and a large amount of property wouM bi- ruined. Tlie least the temperance people could do would be to consent to the ado[>tion of this amendment. jiis lion. ]\Ir. Haytiiorne — I am not a temperance man myself, in the usual acceptation of the term. I am free to use all the articles mentioned in the amend- ment of the hon. gentleman from Halifax, even thougii they should centaiu more than 10 per cent, of alcohol, l>u^ for all that, 1 jiropose t( supiiort the ISill. 1 must refer to .something which fell from the ex-Secretary of State. He mentioiifd the circumstances which brought this Act into existence, and spoke of the enor- mous petitions which had been presented in Pai'liament, and the a^-itation which jiervaded the whole Dominion on this question. We know that the Scott Act was accepted by the temi)erarice adrocates as a compromise, and I maintain that sh'.iuli this House adopt the amendment which has been proposed by the hon. memiier from Halifax — an .amendment with which, in many respects, I concur myself— its eflects would practically be to abrogate the Scott Act. The temperance men who accepted that Act a:-: a settlement of the (juestion, so far as they were concerned, will say, '• this is not the measure which we accepted." The communities which have adopted the Scott Act, and put it in ojif-ration. will say, " this is not what M-e voted on ; w". fought for something else, and now you call ujwn us to acce[)t less than we demaiuled." That would be the effect of incorporating this amendment iii the Dill, and for tha'. reason I shall vote against it, ami in favour of the Dill as it stands. 1 m\ist say that, in my oiiinion, some very unfair and unreasonable argu- ments have been advaiiced liere to-night in support ot the amendment, and epithets have be*i a[iplied to the Scott Act wliich it does not merit. I hearil the word> •'coercion" and "tyranny" applied to that law. I do not consider that they are ajijiroiiriate. Vou can hardly call it tyranny or coercion to allow an electoral district to vot<- aye or no ou the question. Those who i-oeord their votes ar ■ perfectly inde[)Ondent in the matter. They can accept or reject the Act. .My own Province has accejued it, thcugh it has not yet gone fully into oj'cration. I could ha\L >vished that there had been a stronger expiession of opinion on th'- subject ; 1 tould have wished that a larger vote hi been east, but I can imagine why it was so small. 1 am not one oi thoso w (. ■ me to the conclusion that the electors who fu'i to exercise tlieir privilege were foi Jiat reason totally iiidiilerent ujion the sulijec:. I can lielieve t!)at they felt a strong ]iersonal resjinnsibility in tiie matter, and acted from conscientious niotives in remaining away fi'om the polls. They, jjcrhaps, felt tliat through their voti\ if given against the Scott Act, some of thei" acquaint. il'.ees might go to drunkards' giaves, or live sober and lesjiectable lives. 1'iiough, perhaps, accusLomed to use siiirituous liquors tem[ienitdy them- selves throughout their lives, they knew that others .sometimes dratdc to excess, and I can imagine that they remained ::wiy from the polls from high ami magnani- mous n'otives, and therefore T am not d'?;i>osed t" blame tiiem for the course wlach they saw tit to adopt in absei.ting thenisches from the polls. 3(3 TH}: iiCOTT ACT. Jfon. Mr. Carvell, — The remarks of my lien, friwul from Prince Edward Island Boom to mo to havo an exactly opiJOsito boariiig from tlie conclusion at which he has arrived, lie says that the iScott Act, as it is called, was a comjiromiso accepted by its ])rouiotors, as between them and those -who diil not believe in such legislation. Then, why did tliey not let it remain as it v/as? Why violate tho compact! Why bring in thii. Uill! To prevent tiio only reasonable chance of a large vote being had when the Scott Act is submitted to the people of any di:;trict, as referred to by tho hon. Senator from Chatham ? I will not say it is a tyrannical law, altiiough some of its provisions are bad, and in its operation the gi'eatL-t injus- tice may, and most likely wo\dd be, inflicted, and, at the same timC; the law is aIuio.st, if not entirely, useless, in the direction iutendi I by its friends. It has been saiil tliat the law has been accei)ted by the ProAince iro-a which X come. I doubt very much any good results from this adoption, but, ou the contrary, tlu;.-e will be more and inferior [daces wliere liijuor will bo sold, sold contrary to law, and of the worst kinds. In some parts of our Province there are now twice as many jilaces wh(M-e licpior can be had as tlicre were before. If the amendment is adopted 1 can imagine my hon. friend fiom 8arnia hastening to another place, and using his influence to have the amended iJiil rejected there, and so wo will be in exactly tiie same position as we occupied in the begininng of the session, before tho introduc- tion of the Bill, and where we stood when the coiuiiromise was agreed to. I .shall A'ote for the amendment. The Ilovise divided on the amendment, which was adopted by the following vote Alnion, Arcliiliald, Botfiferil, fiouchervilk'. I'e, Hourinot, Bull, ('oN'n:NTS : lion. ]\Iessrs. C'lirapbell, "^n Ale.x., CHrvoll, Cornwall, Dever, Dickey, Dickson, t'ergiisoii, Glbbs, (ilasler, Ifatnilton (Inkermnn), ffowlan, Kail! back, Li^win, Macdonald, Jlontgomery, Northwood, (Hloll, Penny, ToztT, Ryan, yimpson. — 28. Aikins, Araiiiiiil, Baillarj;ocpii, Itolli ron', Bureau, lliallVTK, Chapaisi, Nox-CoNTENTS : Hon. ^Messrs. lUiniducbel, ri'iricr, Flint, (iiriiiil, (irnnl, tiuevr<.-iiii>nt, llaniilt(ju (Ktngitoii), Ilaythorno, Recsor, Ibipf, Scott, Li'oimrd, Truilt;!, McClflan ( ffo/moe//), Vidiil, MuLelaii (Lumioiuhrry), Wark.— 'JG. Mc.MiisttT, i'cUctior, Till' following gentleiia.Mi paired : — Jlr. Allan against the amendment, with Mr. Nelson, who w.is prci)ared to vote in the oppn.sit.' direction. Mr. Miller against the uinendmiMit, vvith .Mi'. Macfarlane, whi» would h.ive voted for it. Hon. Mr. YlDAL — I btg leave to withdraw the Bill. ITon. Mr. Al.mon— I ol ject. If my hon. friend will allow nie to take charge of the iJill 1 shi'l do ,so. I iiove the third reading of die Hill. Hon. Mr. ViiiAr. moved lU auicndment (hat (lir 15111 be not now read tho third time, but that it 1>.: re;id tiiis day three months. Hon. Mr. Grnns rose to a point of oriler. The hon. gentleman from Sarnia could not move an aiiieinlniont of tiiis character to his own LJtII. The Si'KAivi.ii ruled that the motion was in order. DEBATE IX THE SENATE. 37 Tim Houso (liviiled on 3Ir. Vidal's anienclme;it, which was rejected by the following vote : — Contexts : Ilou. ]\L<'.s^rs. Aikiiis, Armaiid, IJaillurgeon, Bellnrose, ]!iireuu, Cliaffurs, CLapiiis, Diimonchel, Forricr, Flint, (Jirnrd, GrtiDt. Guevremont, Haniilton {Kingston), Hiiythornc, ijeonard, AlcClelnii (llopfvell), All Lelan (Londunderry) Me.Mastor, PelletitT, Reefior, Koott, 'I'mdcl, Vidal, Wark.— 25 NON-Co.NTKNTS : Hon. ^Messrs. ninzier. Hamilton ( Inlcnnnnn), Hope, Howlan, KiiiiUiacli, Lewin, Macdonald, Jlnntcrntncry, Nortliwootl, Odcll, i'cnuy, I'ozer, liyan, Siuiiison. — 20. Almon, Carvcll. Arihiliald, Uornw.ill, BotBf(>i J, Dever, liduiiuTvill". Dc, Diikoy. Bourinot, Dickson, Bovk k'<:islati(Mi in order that thev might become incorporated for the ]iarpose of making monei'. There came here impelled with but one feeling— to adopt a line of legisla- tion thai in their judgment, at all events, would inure to the well being of their fellow men. They gave their time, their attention and their ability, whatever it .uight be, to the furtherance of that ol.jecl, I say, therefore, not being governed by anv st-liish motive, lli.'ir jo-aver was entitled to more than onlinary consideration at the hands of I'arliament. inasmuch as from tkeir standpoint, at all eveius. they conceived tliat ii serious evil was abroad, and that society would be immensely liene- tited if their views were enaeted •md jtlaced on the Statute book of this countrv. Tliey were told that this rurliament had no power, and th.at they must go to the local leirislatures. Thev went to the local legislatures in the various provinces of the Dominion, and weie told there that they must come back to this Parliament : tl..it tlie local IcL'islatures, however willing tliey mi-ht be to enact such laws, liow- ev<'r much they mii;ht sympathi/.e with their views and aj-prove of their objects, still they were unabi*' to"give them any assistance— that with the Federal Parlia- ment alone rested the imwer to deal with the matter. Tliey came liack to thiii Parliament, and the lion, gentleman opppwite (Mr. Aikins) repeatedly interrogated mo as to why the tJovimnment of that day, of which f was a meinbi'r, ^s Tin: SCOTT ACT. ilid not yiiild to the well expi'essed wi^jlios of tuo people of Caiiaila, itinl give them the legislation they dosivprl. Ho was told, and the people of this country were told. tliro\igli him, that doul>ts jircvailcd as to the juris- diction of this Parliaiucut. There was a willingness that these demands should be met, but the ditlicidty was iit our Constitution. Many gentle- men believed that this Parliament could do nothing, that it rested with the local legislatures, and so the temperance people were badgered about from one source of (tower to anothei'. Finally when the (picstion came before the Supreme Cotirt in the case of the ti)ueen r. Severn, indirectly, it was found hi judicial opinions exjirossed on that occasion that the belief was, at all events, on the Judiciary Hench, that the 'dtiniate ]iower of restraining in any way the li(pior trallic rested entirely with the Federal I'arlianient. In obedience to tlu^ well exju'essed wish of the people of this country, a wish that was kx no sense negative, but seemed to have an echo all over this country, from one end to the other, Parliament conceded a very small share of what the petitioners claimed. Tlicy wen; told that the restrictions they had asked for could not be granted, but they were told at the same time, if it were possible that this Parliament had the power, such a law might lie framed as would give the people in their sevi 'a,l localities a law which would restrain the sale of intoxica.ting liquors, if they chc • "^o jiut it in ojieration. And here T must express my surprise that the leader of t ' iinient should speak in the strong manner that he did of the tyranny of the t mce movement. One wouhl fancy from his statement that the tem|ierunco pet^ >vi)'e in ]iur.._iit of something tnat was wrong, something not merely scltlsh for their own benelit but serior.sly interfering with th(> civil rights of their fellow men. I deny that there is any tyrarnty whatever about this Act. It in no degree interferes with any ma.i who chooses to drink. Have we not surroun'l- ed, and in all well organized comnuinities is not this liquor trade surrounded l^y shackels ami restraints, ]xirticularly in countries with constitutions similai to our own, in l^ngland and on this Continent ' xn it not a fact that the lii'pior trade is looked upon with horror by men of good standing in the comnuinity, and ]iarlia-. nients are constantly restraining them. Have we not a jirohibitory law on Sunday in Ontario (they may have in other provinces also), and a law restrain- ing the sale of intoxicating li(juor on Saturday evenings, when the labourer is going homo to his wife and children ? Has 'iot Parliament interfered and said that when a man is going liome with his wages in his pocket he shall not be enticed into a grogshop to spend his earnings that should go to feud and clothe his family .' Does that law shock the mind of any hon. gentleman I "Will anyone tell me that tiiat is a law which should not be on the Statute book of the Province \ Hotel keepers protest against it, ami say tiiat their ]>rolitable night is Saturday night: but will any hon. gentleman rise in his place? here, and tiud fault with those laws, and say that they are in direct violation with that perfect freedom of action in reference to this liquor trallic that some hon. gentlemenhavo thought tit to ap[)hiud I This Act is based on the principle that if it is the will of the people in any locality that a restriction shall l)e ]ilac(!d upon the sale or trallic in intoxicating liquors it can lie done. It is just one degree beyond what the otiier laws are. It is a degree beyond restraining the sale of licpioi- on Sinida}-, and the sale of it within the hours prescribed by the provincial statutes. Put it does not interfere with individual action, it docs not prevent those who choose to have wine or beer in their houses from using it. They cm drink as nnich as they please at home. This law, in its l>rincii)lc, merely withdinws froui our fellow men who have not the nerve to resist the tempting cup the tc.iiptation which might otherwise lead them to ruin, and to tli(; ruin of their families. We do not inpiire to go into a very largo circle to sec the evil conseiiuences of indulgence in intoxicating liipiors. No one will deny that such invlulgencc yields to debasement, sorrow, siir and crime. That is an undeniable fact, and, however mucii hon. gentleiuon may object to the Temperance Ait, no ono will deny that that is the ultimate result of indulgence in intoxicating drinks. Having adopted that law, a law sought for by those who were, perhaps, over zealous, over anxious :ind full of the belief that tot\l ]>iohihition was not oidy poss'lile; DEDATi: IX Till-: SEX ATE. -tlioui,'!i nave otilv L,iveu wo Jul givo it 10 tli'.'iu. 11 nioiit'i to tuu but would bo iittcui.ioil by excellent results; tlieiii a snmll shaio of what they asked; still wc The idea uiigiiuitcd with this Senate. Wo devoted eoii.sidenitiou of the subjoet Every clause of that Act was scamied niost closely, and the \ lews of lion, ^eutleni^n, as far a.s itos.itlile, were engrafted on the measure. Care was taken that it sliould not be too extreme, that it should be reasonable, aivl at the same time elfoctivo. Hundreds of thousands of people wore gratilleil with the result of our legislation. They agreed to accept it, and give it a trial, hoping that it might lead one day or another to total prohibition over the length and breadth of this land. It was not alone with a largo class of men, but lion, gentlemen must know that over this broad land, with a view to reclaim husbands and brothtrs and .sons, the women of this country, who take a deep intrrestin this /nie.stion oftempet- ance, who were keenly alive to iho consequences which intemperance V'longiit to their little homes, who witnessed the slaughter of many valuable lives, and the tiegrailation and misery ves'dting from the li(pior traflie, had a]ipealed to the jtublic sympathy and good sense of the people of this country. They had enlisted their sons in the Bands of Ilo]ie, trusting that, if the law was not given to them, the lessons they would learn there would be a sullicient i)rotoction anlea,'5ed that a law of this kind would bo in torce — that tliev might not have the opportunity to drink. Js there any one of us whc has not in his own experience met with men who admitted to him that they would like to live M-hcre they were out of the sight and smell of lienor, and were not tempted to iiidiilgo in it \ Their strength lasted as long as they were away from it, but wlien they Avere in sight of iiipior they yielded to the temptation. Tt was in behalf of that class that 1 made the appeal to this House, and that class would bo the most largely l)enelited by restrictive legislation. Well, hon. gentlemen, we adopted that law. I ask you has tijcro been any considerable agitation over this country for its repeal I Has any echo come from the public jiress, from the pulitit, or the platform in opposition to that law / Jf so, it has not reached my ear. I have 3'ct to learn that any considerable body of [leople of this country criticised in an unfriendly way the action of this Parliament in placing that law on the Wtatuie book. I am quite aware that gentlemen whose interests were attacked, and who feared that their sales would diminish by the c[ieration of this law, were no douljt disappointed and irrlialeu. Cut tiiat is the only class, as far as I have heard, that has put iu any lemonsli'ance against tlui continuance (;f this law. Last session of Parliament; a member of the (.Government introduced this Pnll in this Chamber for the purjiose, he said, of removing doubts as to some clauses of the Act. T, myself, did not share in the (loul)ls entertained liy the portunity for giving tlu^ Tfinperanei! Act a stab in its most vital point. They acted in a gi.od spirit and in a si'us(! of fairness. The Bill was carried in this House. An agitation was got u|ii i tiie other House against it, and amendments were introduced iu the ISill. aud wlifu it came back liei'c the friends of temperance thought it Ix'tter that the measur(> should stand over for an- other session, since the amemlnu'nts were of .such a character that ii^ cuuld uot pass in that Kha[)e. The Bill was therefore rejected by thi.s House. 'I'ne same sid)ject came up in the House of Commons this year, and a considerable A-oto was passed in atliimatiou of the course ])ursut'd by tiiis House last year. A changt? hail come over th'' House ot Commons. They had, duiing the rece.ss, constdteil their constit- uents, and discoveretl a feeling abroad that tiie Temperance Actshotdd not be inter- fered with. It wi •; thought tlien that there was no possibility of fear in introduc- ing tho ainendnjeu' . pi\,|iosed by the (Jovernment last year. My hon. frieml of)po- site (Mr. Vidal), believing that the good .sense of this House, which was with him last year, would Ite with him this year also, and that the House of Commons would accept the measure without tlestroying the Jlill by amenduuMits, introduced it, in- furming us during that deliate that tho Bill had been prepared in tlie ollioe of tiie ^liuister of JusLioe, and giving it, therefore, a semi-otiicia! character. He repeat- edly observed in the discussion which took place that it was the Minister of Jus- tii'e who had douljts as to tho putting of the law in force in certain localities, unless tliesi! amendments were obtained, and that they were not proposed at the instance of the temperance body, who have yet to learn that this Bill is before Parliament. The first intimation that they will have of the fict will l)e the announcement that the Act for which, during ten years, they so eaineslly sought has been destroyed by the Senate. I think myself, and I say it advisedly, that it is going a long way out of its true line of action for this Senate to take the irregular course it is at ])resent ])ursuing. The Henate is an irresfjonsible body. It is not in any way aiiiciiable or ivsponsilile to the people of this country. Its members are not ol)lii;ed, like those of the House of Commons, to go before the jieojile and give an account of their steward.sliip. It undertook, three yeaas ago, in accordance M'ith the expressed ]io))ular will, to ]>ass a certain measure. That measure was no sooner on LIh; St.atnte book than, iu a moment of eajuice Hon. Sir Ali:.\. C.VMi'iiKi.i."— Order, order! Hon. Mr. Scott— I .say it advisedly — in u niomenv of caprice, gave a fatal stab to that imiiortant Act whii-li had received the approval of Parliament, and been accefited by the jieop'e of this country as a compromise between Parliament and the tcm]ieranco moven cut — a measure, too, that, in order to be sure of our ground, was tested before tho Supremo Court to setth^ the (juestion of jurisdiction, 1 think it is a retrograde movement, at all tveiits. Fov a legislative bo.ly, entirelv iudepeiidi ut ot the popular will, to so seriously disturb a law on our Statute iiook, without lieing (ii.st asked to ilo sn, is an extriujnlinary proceeding. [ do not ipies- y ■ DEBATE IX THE SENATE. 41 / tioii in any way the alistract ritjlit of tliis House to take such a .stop, but I sa v it is an unusual [irocucding, and, so far as I know, without a juT'oedent. It is the first time that tho Senate of this country will liave taken tliat extraord i- nai'y course withuut ;;'i\ing tlie jtcople out of doors, who aro to lie atfected by this measure, an o])porLunity to (ixpress an ojtinion on tin; subject. No one will deny that tiie temperance [)eopk! are an intelligent anil respectable body, whose objects are unselfisli and |iliilanlhropic. We may have our ideas as to whether they are riglit oi wiong, but we must, at all events, respect the motives that lead to such results. In the coiu'se of this debate, several Ik^u. genthmicn said that thi?y were quite willing to let tin- law stand as it is— that the-' thought the temju'rauce j)eoplo ought to let the law stand without amendment, i .ut the Government hav« introduced a lUli to gi\e an opjiortunity to the opponents of the law to tlestroy it. That is wiiat the Goventment ha\e done, and 1 hold t\w.m responsible for it. Did the hon. Postmaster General voty tiie (loverunu'ut of Ontario bringing on the local uleeiions. The nominations fi)r the latter wore held a few days before the pollint,' for the Teniperancn Act. ft has been held that what is understood by election day is tlie time which iiit rveiies between tlie noiiiiiiatioii and the close of the (mils. 1'' that is a eirroct definition, it might happen that tlie di'- isioa u|)on the temperance (juestion wa.s illegal. The proelaniation havins bi^'ii issued, tiio Govern- iiieut was powerless to recall it, or to issue a new proclain-iliou. The Rub-seetion is amended liy providiii!,' that the true intent and uieaninir of it is that the wo-'d ' election ' therein refers only to the poiliua: of votes, si« that tho voting for the »,' uiada Temiierauce Act cannot take l)lace on the same d ly as the polliii>^ for a memlur to serve in tlie IJoniinion Parliament, oi in any of the hn-al U^aislatures. The second section refers to somethin;; that was not known at the time that the Teinneranee Act was jiasseil, or. if it was known, it was not meationed when the measure was under consider.itioa in the Senate. The sei'oiul paitof lae Toinperance Act lonid only be broiiirht into force contingent upon licenses beiiifr issued. Now, in some counties in tlie .Maritinu: I'rovinees licenses are not issued, and in such places tho Act could not be put iu force. This clause i)rovide8 a reiueilv lor that diUicuUy.'" It ])assed very )ih>asMnt!y ; it was in the hands of a member of the Governmerf who was him.self w d(»voted member ot ■ conferenee with his own colleagues. tilt; tem[ierance cau;e, and acting no iloulit in THE SCOTT ACT. Ifoii. .Sir Ai,i:x. •.'amimiei-l — [ must cunti'iulict tliii lion. gciitU'iUiUi again ; he siiiys lie iiHsiuiK.s that it was in cont'erenco with me that this touic plam'. I liave just tiskeil my lion, trii-iul (Mf. Aikius), wlio says that ho had no confeivuco wliat- ever witii luo, and that 1 knew nothing wliatevcr about it. lion. Mr. SooTT — This hiw was framed in the ofTico of tho Minister of Justice ; it was introihiced liy tlie Secretary of State at that time, wIio is still a niend>'r of tlie Government, and yet my lion, friend says that waM not a (^nvern- meiit measure. Hon. Sir Ali:x. Campuell — Yes. Hon. Mr. StOTT — Well, I can draw wii;a deductions T please fnmi the facts, 1 snpiio.se, antl 1 think tho hon. gentleman wilt iind that tho peoiih) of this country v.ill concur in my opinion. The -Dili, of course, was only tlrawii by the Minister of Jufstice in his individual cajiacity. The Minister of .Justice in his individual capacity found that there were some legal ditHculties, aiitl the Secretary of State introduoc people of France and Italy and Spain, where every farm has its vineyard, I could quite understand the lu-in.'ipln of allowing light wines to be exempt from tho operation of the Act j but wlu'ii we know that light wines cannot lie IjrougliL intO' this country unless they aie pretty well cluuged with alcohol DEIIATK IX THE ."i EX ATE. 43 llou. ;i fact. yiv. JJouuixuT— I (.'iiu as.'iuio inv liuii. I'iummI lIiov can ; I know it as Hon. I\Ir. Scott — ^ly lion. fri<'ii(l is a connoiisevr, anil can afrunl to import his lAvn winos and \n:v.\) tlioui in i cool cellar, but I am speaking for tin,' niulritnde, tor ilioso who want tu bo protected from their own weakne.s.s. I am appealing more oil belialf of that large class of the people who feol that tiiey have bound tiiem.selves in' taking a sol(;uin [iledgo to resist tho temptation of intoxicating chinks. It ii-s nut the class who are temperate, andean take tli.irglas.s of wine and stop there ; it is not the cla.ss who never lose their reason by liquor *!iafc is atlected by this Bill. They can always get wine if they choose, and even stronger drinks, in districts where the Act is in force. The law is for that class avIio l)elieve that they will \te I'l'seued from tho terrible debasement before tiiein if tho tem|itation is removed. ■Surely we all believe it is wise to reduce the number of groggeries. They have in 2> ova Scotia and New l^runswick wise laws under which the iieojile can say, " Wo want to ]>ut down drunkenness ;" those laws are lietter in many J-espects than the Act on our Statute book, but you cannot adopt them all over the cotuitry. This measure steps in, and gives the public an optional law, and I deny that it inter- t'eres with tlie rights of tho ]ico]>le ; I deny that it interferes with their rights, although, I think, in a matter of that kind, we would Ije discharging the high duty that devolves upon us if we ilitl interfere with the drinking customs whicli are causing such misery and destruction around us. There is no man, however limited his exjierience, but will find in his circle of acquaintances friends who have been snatched away, men who have gone down to drunkiu-ds' graves, from over indul- gence ; men who might have been saved if liquor hail bpoii quite out of their reach : men who would like to have lived where liquor cuuld not have been had. In the great Xorth-West, why did the people decide thai there should be no intoxicating liijuors, not oven light wines or beer ( ^Fy hon. f. '^nd says it is on account of the Indians. We are willing to make sacrifices for tlie Indians ; 2'),000 odd people who went into that country were willing to deny themselves this indulgcnco to pre- serve the Ir. , where they will be, forever, free from its contaminating inllueuce. If stich legislation is a good thing for the North-West, it is a good thing for other parts of the Dominion. I ask it for these ]u-ovinces, not in the large senst; in which it applies to the North- W^est, but in the diluted shape in whicli it is now on our Statute book. I make this last appeal to this House to leave the law as it stands ; and, in th'" course of four or five years, if it is found that it does not work well, and does not bring tho.se advanti\ges which its friends claim that it will, then let us have a measure introduced to repeal it, and we can give the subject careful and thorough consideration. We can then ha\e the subject fairly before us, not thrown cajirieiously on us, and not influenced by, I am sorry to say, prumjitings th;it are not worthy to govern the members of this House Hon. Sir Alkx. Camimjell — (.(rder ! Hon. Mr. Scot'T — The hon. gentleman says "'oiyler.'' I saw in those lobbies gentlemen who are directly interested in this matter ; I saw them appealing to Senators to assist in protecting their trallic from being injured by this law. Is this Senate going to listen to those men, and not to that larger boily of respectable ])eople of this country that I have named \ Have we come to lie governed by such influences and impulses \ I trust not. 1 propose, at this stage of the Bill, as sev- eral hon. gentlemen have expressed their willingness to let the law stand as it is, if no further amendment is proposed, to take the final sense of the House whetiier the 44 THE SCOTT ACT. r.ill sliiiU pass its tliinl nvuliiig. I liojio tliu I [onsc, on coiiaiileratioii, will bo dis posed to vote in tlic m-gativt". Hon. ^Ir. DicKKY — Wo must all sym|iatluzo with tlie strong f(!elings tha* my lion. friiMul entertains on this (luestion, as tin) father of the Aet wiiich is pro- j)Ose(l to un iuuendeil ; but, lit the same time, I think that my lion, friend, in the exercise of his discrrtion, might, at all events, have spare 1 us the lectuie whieh he has given to tlu' Senate of tiiis country. He has thouglit proper to make a eom- plaint against the Henute in reference to this Act. Now, what grounds nre tiiere for that i-onii)!aint ? ]My lion, friend has spoken of the original Act, and of tht> manner lu wliich it was received in tiiis House, and tiie ileliberate discussion that took ])'aue upon it, and I ask him if he has any complaint to make of the action of the Senate on that occasion i Was his proposition not fairly met, and liberally entertaineil, and did he not receive every eoiisidei'ation for the suggestions lie made on tliat oecasiut what have we been told > The most vehement part of his sjieech was that in whicli he insisted upon fastening upon the Government a course last y(?ar and a difiercMit course this year, and I say it is in entire consonance witii the feeling that gave birth to this Act on the part of the hon. gentleman, because that Act, introduced only on the eve of the general elections in 187ti, 1 do not hesitate (o say, was introduced jiurely for jiarty jnir- poses, and with the view to ])arty advantages througiiout the country. I do not make that eomidaint against the gentlemen who voted for the Act through consci- entious motives, because they had a perfe^a right to use their discretion ; hut I .say it is ill vain to attempt to conceal, at tliis day, the fact that that measure was introduced for a liarty purpose. The qin'stioii had not l)een before the eoiintry ; it had never coma uji in an election as an issue, and the country, in deteruiining the DEliATK IX Till': ShWAT/:. 45 tlia*^^ contest of 1878, dill HO outiivly ii|>iirt fVciu tliat (mention. If it was not mi i.ssuo, t.'u! only ctfi'ct it Imd was lo sliow tin- coimtiy tiiai. llio (Jovornmi'iit iiad fiiiled to satisfy tlio people on other ([uestions, uml hail endeavoured to seeiiro tlio Hupport of a lar^'e body of respectalilc tcnipenitice men in this country by Liinj^'in^ in tlio Act which we now propose to anieud. .My lion. iVifnd li.is tried to tasten a charge against the (iovernnient. it is not my liusiness to defend tlio (jloveinment ; they are (juite able to defend themselves, and they have stated their views here to-night. But, notwithstanding the diselainusr of the hon. the Aliiuster of Inland lievenue, fortified as it is, not mc'rely hy the word of tlie lion, the Postmaster (ieiierai, Uit liy his action in the legislation of last year, \vht;n he took no p:iir, in at all, and did not even vote on it ; notwithstanding all that the hon. gentlemaii from Ottawa insists on fastening U])on the (lovernment of the eonntry a ditferent course last year from this year, wlule he knows they are divided on the question. Hon. Mr. Scott — I read the speech of tlie hon. gentleman o]i[iosite. I foil. Mr. Dk'KKY — The hon. gentleman read the speech after the attack, and the speech took away all the point of the attack, liecanso there is not a word in the speech to su[)port the statement of the hon. gentleman that the Minister of Inland Revenue introdiiced that Hi 11 as a (jovernment measuie. The hon. gentleman (Mr. Scott) refernnl to thi! local legislatures, and Stated that the reason that measure was brought in was because the local legislat\ires would not act. But they had acted ; the Legislature of Quebec had enacted a law that was satisfiictory to that p'-ovince, and which has influi^nced a large number of the members from Quebec in voting upon this Mill to-day. I was rather surprised at their course in respect to the amendment of my hon. friend fiom Halifax, the adoption of which would have the effect of materially increasing our trade with the country they all respect — France. But the other provinces have had their license laws — - most stringent laws — and ■yet my hon. friend says that the local legislatures woulil not act! Hon. Mr. Scott — Tliey would not enact a measure like this. lion. Mr. Dii'Kicv — My hon. friend says that this is an Act that ndates (Mitirely to the Dominion Parliament ; but 1 would inform him that we have a local enact- ment (piite as stringent and as elleetive in its way in Nova Scotia as the Scott Act. My hon. iriend objects to this amendment becau.se, he says, it will kill the Act, and why! Because, he says, the legislation which he introduced in 1878 — and I would like to lie alile to give him credit for th(^ very l)e."!t temperance motives in introducing that measure — was introduced for the [)urpose cif putting down the tratlic in iuto.xicating liipiors. I quite admit that that is the ])rinciple of the legislation of 1878, but the amendment that has been introduced docs not touch at all thecpiestion of the trallic in intoxicating liquors; it only relates to the very mi! I class of drinks, such as are mentioned by my hon. friend from Halifax, and not to those ardent liijuors which my hon. friend tells us load to debasement and sorrow and shame by aome of the people who indulge ii* them. I am peifectly willinii to agree with him there, but why he should on that ground make an objec- tion to this anuMulment, I cannot conceive. Supposing that amendment had been oflereil at the time this Temperance Act was introduced, and it w:us agreed that wo would all act together and endeavour to root out this great evil cf intemperance, if the Bill should be moililied so as to allow the sale of ales, )i')r^- 'ight wines and other milddrinks, my hon. friend, I am ([U'tesiue, would have ' .> 'iily too glad to have secured the s\ipport of the entire body of legislators by assenting to such a. course as that. That is what wo are trying to ilo now, and is my hon. friend not content to take tlic half loaf rather than have no breal I Will he not consent to a compromise which, I think, is a.s rea' .naiile as it is fair I At all events, the people of this coinitry should be in a posi' jn, if they choo.se to do so, to go to the projier authorities in tlie diirerent provinces, and ask for licimse to sell those li(piors, which I have not heard any g(tntlemau speak of as into.xicating drinks. Several gentle- men who have spoken to me si/ice the debate began have informed nie they were 46 THE SCOTT ACT. \nulcr till' itii|iresHiou tlmt we won; ijoiiii; fo give iinliscnininntp liconse — ii sort of t'lvo usf« of siK li ilriiiks as uli's, ]>oiti'r. ci>lcr and Iii,'lit witifs. l!iu sik^Ii is not tlio case : wo iiien-ly cvcludc tlieni from tlic operation of flic Scott Act, and leave it to the local legislatnti's and the local anthoritica to deal with thorn. Tlipy are su'i- jecl to liconso and control just tho nanm ns tlicv always wcrp, and why it shotild he said that snch an anieiidnu'nt as that would kill the act, 7 cannot conceiM'. ^[y lion, friend knows very well we have hail some ox|>orience of this class of lci,'i,slalion in his own province. He has had Homeexiieiicnceof the Dnnkin Act, a very stringent iaWjiMinningin tho sainedirectionaalhis Act; yet, when introducing the Scott Act, he had to confess that the hnnkin Act was, to a large extent, inojierative. Kxperienci; ha.s alioaily proved that in some counties where the (.'anada Toniperanco Act has hceii m operation tho same results f(jllowed. The hon. gentleman will find, if he takes the tiMuhle to inipiiro, that where it has jmt down one licensed house wli ^ under th<.' control of the authorities it has liro\ight into existence half i ..in unlici'iised groggeries thi'ougiiout tho same district, is tliat a result which my lion, friend desires to secure in the sacred cause of temperance ? \ tiiink not ; at least. I lioi)e not. Now, my hon. friend says thei« has l)epn no agitation -iigainst tie- law. Why is it there is no agitation against it ] ft is hecavise, as T have already ex- plained, the i)eoiple who drink— tlie people who are supposed to he interested — have the same opi'ortunities to get liquor wherever ■ this law is in force that they had hefore, because grogu'eries are now kept hy ]>eople who are entirely too poor to ])ay lines, or too insiguiticant to follow or too ditlicult to get ut. At all events, that is the cl :is8 of jieoi)le into whose hands you throw this deliased liipior tratKc instead of having it carried on under jiroiter control Ijy resiionsible parties, and under regula- tions {jstablished hy the autiiorities of the country. That is tlie only etf'eet that this legislation can have. Hut my li!y to it any county M-hei-e licens we issued or not. 1 wish he had made this speech on tlie second reading of • 1. because he would have saved this House a gi'oat deal of troulde and we should Jiave told the lion, gentleman from Sarnia. who introduced the l?ill, that according to the authority of the father of the Act itselt there was no necessity for this legisla- tion at all. Hon. Mr. Scott — Tiie Minister of Justice wanted it. Hon. ]Mr. Dickey — ]My hon. friend speaks a great deal of what tho Minister of Justice thought or what he was going to do. I do not know by wliat authority he speaks of wliatthe Minister of Justice intended to do, or whether the secrets of the Depai'tment are confided to him, luit, if tiie ^linister of Justice had any doubt as to the interpretation of the Act, certainly my hon. friend liad none at all. I have already answered the objection he has made that if this Bill passed the Act will not be worth anything. Why not] H you carry this amendment you will cnli.il all tho sober temi)eianee feeling <.'t the country iu its favour ; you may otl'eud the people who desire to indulge iu intoxic iting drinks, but I for one am quite prepared to take my slnire of the res])onsibility as well as to assist my lion, friend iu enfoiv- ing legislation to take from the [jcople the jKjwer of debasing themselves, and at the same time say they shall not i)e dejprived of the opportunity of taking a harmles.s glass of ale or cider, or of the mild wines that come from across the sea. Now, my hon. friend, in his vehement .attack upon the inajoi'ity in this House who have declarerl their opinion of this Act, has resorted, as I think, to tho unworthy course of insinuating that the opinions of the majority of this House have been improperly influenced by peojile in the lobby. All I can .«ay with regard to this is that the hon. gentleman who casts a reflection of that kind upon the members of this House feliould think well before he does it, and should ije in a jiosition to i.'ive some reasons DI-llATK /V 77//; SEyATK. 47 (or tliiil statttiiciit, S|)(Mkiii^ for luvHcIf, I cim only Siiy I li;i\e Sfou iiu porsun in tlio lul)l)y ; I liiivo socii no ihtsoii clsi'wliere, iiinl lie one Inu. ventured to speak to moon tlio Hulijuct e.xce|it oiieov two niombefs ot" lliix House, who Jiiive u perfpct viglit to cDufiir with tl".(ar collcHi^ut's, and no iiitentinn of hclpinii; thn iutoi'tists of hrewiirs or oilu'is was ovm .suii^t-stt'd to iud. 1 takf niy stiiiid ujniu ihi,.j auu-ntl- meut of my lion, fiii-nd as cniiiu-ntly wi«o and jtroiJor in itsi'lf. I luiro no fuuUn;^ upon it oiht'fwisc, liut I do think, in the trun interests of KnupBraUfr', my hon friends would huM' ItPst Kuhservt^d thusi- viows Ijv takinj^ tlie adviru of the other .side of the House, ami should have eontented tliemstMyes wilii tho amendnipnt. and tlius enlisted in the support of the groat cuuso of temperance the general fcelinyj of the people of this country. Hon. yiw ViOAL — I should like to oceujiy a considerable time in replyini; to tho ol)servations made with respect to this Bill. I think it will i)e aijsohitely necessary to make additional aiueudmenis, in order to l)rini( tho one which lias been adopted into harmony with the Bill. 1 therefore move tho adjournment of the debate. Hon. y\v, DrivKV — The motion before the House is that the Bill do jiasa to its third reading, as amended. Hon. 3Ir. ScoiT — But it is quite ojjen for my lion, friend to move anotliei amendment. As he lias said, with this amendment tacked on. the Bill is without meaning ; it is an amendment which will lujt work with the Bill unless machinorv is jirovided for it. if my lion, fiiend desires to move another amendment, I am .sure the House would give him time to prejiaro it. Hon. Sir Ai.EX. Campuf.ll — As to the amendment not working as it is, 1 do not think there ia any ground for fear. Tho amendment is that the original act shall not interfere with th'> dealing in ales, ))orter. light wines, etc., and there can be no doubt that that wili have tho effjci of \n\ ^■uting the original Act from o))er- ating with regard to those liquors, and that is the only object in view. Hon. Mr. C'auvf.i.t, — 1 do not feel that it is just to myself and those who voted with me on the question to-night to allow the closing remarks of the hon. the ex- Hecretary of State to pass with so slight a reference to them as that which was made 1)V the hon. Senator from Amherst. The hoii. ex-Secretarv of State thousiht fit to siv that an undue intluenco liatl been brought to bear upon members of this House, and that tho majority in favour of the amendment was thus secured. I feel that it is due to every gentleman in this Chamber that the lion, member should go further or go back — that he shouhl either retract the insinuation or ja'ovc it. i think it is beneath the dignified position M-liich every member of this House should . occupy to make such a statement. Following in tho wake of tho liun. gentleman from Amherst, I may state t4iat no one has said yea or nay to me, or wished me to do anything in reference to this matter. 1 do not speak for my.se!f, for any one who knows me would know that I would not be guiltv of such a thing as he insinuates. Hon. JMr. Scott- imj)ro]ier influences. -I do not think I used tlie words " undue influence ;" I said and I used it in this sense : gentlemen engaged in the manufaet'iic and traffic in intoxicating liquors liavo endeavoured to infhience meui- liers of this House to vote for the amendment. Whether they succeeded or not, I cannot say. It is not jirojier to introduce pei'sonalties into a debate of this kind, Init there are gentlemen within re acli of my voice at this moment who can cotitirm what 1 say : that large interests attacked by this Temperance Bill were in the lobbies endeavouring to influence members to vote for the amendment. Hon. Sir Ai.bx, Camimjfli, — As the hon. gentleman ]ait it before, it was that members of this House were improperly inihienced liy those men in the lobbies. Hon. ]Mr. Scott — It I find I have transgressed the rules of this House, or any horn, gentleman believes his sensitiveness has l)een injured l^v mv observations,. I 48 THE SCOTT ACT. will be jflud to witlnlniw them. What J say is that itilhicncos wore at work, very lar<;c intlucnot-'S, ill oilier to have beor exrliuled fioin tilt! oj/oratiou of the Tempor- aiK'O Act. Hon. Sir Alex. Oamphell — What th:' hou. gontloman .stated was tliat the House had been intluencetl by intere.sts VLpreseuted in tlie lobbie.s. Hon. Mr. ScoiT — I .stated what I liad seen; and T drew certain conclusions. Hon. Mr. Howr.AN' — I think tlie lion, yoptlemnn owant to tlie House to with- draw those words. Wh-.u ri4lit has lie to say thiit tliis House has been improperly inllvtcncod i The hon. (,'entk'man lias hiuisilt' used ail the inliuenee he possesses to carry his point. > Ibm. -Mr. Scorr — I had a right to use uiy influence. Hon. Mr. Howl.ax— The hon. gentleman us'd ni-i influence, not only inside the House, liut outside ot it. ilon. Mr. SfOTT — I haV2 a right to do so, l)iit gentlemen, not in this (Mianiberi who are interested in the li^juor tralHc, lia\ e no right to buttonhole membei-s of this House to influence them to vote one vay ^. another. Hon. Mr. Hhwi.an — A gentleman may. on the fijir of this House, by his elo- fiuence and iierr->iasive pf'wers endeavou.' to inlluenco the votes ot lion, members, but ho has no rinht to go into the lolibies of this House and ask lion, gentlemen how they are going to vote. Hon. jNH". Scott — 'I his is the only occasion on which T Lave asked hon gentle- men to vote. I think the circumstances connected with this Act are e.vcejttional, and tluct I was wa< ranted in going much further than I would have gone under other circumstances, l.ectuse it is a moral question all'ecting the well being of tlit; people of thi.j country in the direction of peace and hai);ii;.ess here, a'id not only here but hereafter. It is the only time I have made a personal appeal to this House. I cer- tainly am surprised to hear the hon. gentleman say that I have no right in the lob- bi(,'s of fhis liouse to ask a Senator to vo*e in favour of a particular measure. Tt seems to me I have often Ijeen asked by Senators if I could not see my way to sup- port a particular measure. I think it is quite right, and 1 should have b(!en wanting in iny dutv if I had faileil to ask anyone that I tiiought <'ould be iiiHueneed l)y me to Vote for the liill. Hon. Mr. Ali an — Tlie hun. gen'lemnn is perfectly right to use all his intlu- ence and persuasion to gt't his fellow members to vote for any measure he is inter- ested in carrying, but when he »-entures to go beyond that ai il say that gentlemen interested either in tlie passage of this Hill, or any particular ,imt>iidtnent. have been lobhving members of this Senate, and that members of tbo ^^enale have been unduly swayed to vote contrary to their ccnvictions '.- iio intlueiKis Miiis broui;lit to bear riiion them, he is going too tar, l^ecause I i\>:i not tiiiiik -on I tn. member of this body is 0})en to a charge of that kind. Hon. Mr. Hn tcev— The hon. geiitl'iuaii. in the heat of deliate, used an expres- sion, wliich. when his' attention was called to it, ii 1)1- the end of it. amendment, wlii The Senate divided tht withdrew. I think that should. Il was rejeeted by the i'ollowing vote :- Co.VTENTS : y flon. ]\r'S8rs. AikiiiH. ('. a;>ais, Jfavtlionie, Uecsor, Arnmm!, I>muouehil, ij(^oniir(!. S<()tt, Baillur^'(on, Klint. Mci'leLm (//, l-firelf), 'I'nuicl, Helieresf, (iirard. Jlel.elim {Lu; idotuleTTij) Vi.l.il, Biuofti', tlmnl. McMiister, Wink - CLailcrs, c;ue\ rem.mt, iVUctici-, a ]■( fe( oi 111 of inl llOi • '23- th th ri'. sei th. de: is C'li Wl tn by DEBATE IN THE SENATE. ■to NOX-CONTENTS n';,n. MesstTj. ..Vluioii, Archiljiikl, lioiiehcrvillo, De, J!ourii)()t. J{oV(l, liuli, I'ampl.fll, Sir Alex. CarvBlI, Cornwall, Dever, l)i(.key, DickKou, l'"erf,'Usou. ttlbb*, (ilnoitT, [fumilton {Inkerman), llamiltoa (Kinijitoii), Howlan, Kiiulbach, L:\irf'(l with ]\lr. I'eiiuy, wlio would Imve voted witli the iiiiijority liiul hf been present. lion. Mr. YiDAL — I regi'ct that I ani obliged to s[K;iik without liaving had aii oppoitunity of arranging my thoughts and tVauiiug an anicudnient at this .stagf of tho Hill. I cannot, liowovcr. allow tlu^ l>ill to pass its third reading without making a fi'w obserNations in coniicctiou with it. 1 am not disposed to speak ipiiteso strnngiy .1 Miy lion, friend opjiosit-' (Mr. 8eott), but, at the same time, I participate veiy largely in the fe»liugs that ho has c^'.pressed. I do think, however, without venturing to pronoiuK-e any judgui'-i t upon the action of the House, that the question which we have before us, and uiio.i which we ai'e to give a decision, is a more important ouo than, perha|)s, hon. gentlemen havo been disposed to think. I I'old that such legis- lation as this is at h^ast hat;ty. Parliament, in 1^78, gave to the i)eoi)h( of this country tho T'anada Temperance Aot in resjionse, as it has boon observed on several occasions during this deliate, to the demand of huudi-eds of tho\isauds of our people after many year.s of agitation. That VAW was given and accepted as a com.promise. Jt erance and prohil>ition desired. Wo would have preferred it if it had been posf.iljle to have obtained it, (hat there should be an act to prohibit the man\dacture, impo-.tation or sale of tlioso drinks which wi; honestly believe to be the cause of the greatest distress, misery and ruin in our country. A comju'omiso, however, wa.s effected to this extent, that a uieas .re of pei'udssive local prohibition was granted to the country. This was r( -eived by the temi)erance men of the Dominioji, generally, with satisfaetioi;, feeling it w.is perhaps all they could e.vpecc to get in tho present state of public opinion. That Act has been ap|iroved of very generally throughout the country. The fact that it was given (whicii was mel>^ione.l ratliti- as an argument against it) at the approach of a general election lesiilied what I dimply tliat the parties iii ])oW(.- recognized tho state of public opinion, knew that thLs wouKl be a pojuilar move to !.". of the Act of I87d will bo secured ! They have actoil in good taith, believing that Parliament meant that thev sho>dd have the power of jirohibiting i!io .sale of liipior in those counties t^at desired it ; and art; they U) be toM, after all the trouble they iiave gone to, that it is all done for nothing, th.at now, iiy a sudden, unasked for act of the Senate of Canada, the e.ssenthil feature of the Pill is to be removed, and it is to b(!come moro Wiiste paper on the Statute book I I hold that tho ix'ople who havo taken s-uch trouble, and who in good faith bi-ought the Act into force, ww entitled to some i-espect and protection at our hands, and that they shouUi be given tliat protection by a clau.ie allowing them to retain that prohibition if thoy so ilosire. Some such 50 THE SCOTT ACT. clause sliouUl be ad'lfil to llio i)ies(3ut IJiU, iiiitl tin; cluc'toi'.s at all events should have the jiiivilege of ileciding .vliieh i.hoy would choose. There could l)e some provision made by which the '.'lectoi'S iu any couuty might decide fur themselws wluUhei- the V will take the law as it now is, or take it iu the luutihited form iu which it will apiiear if this auiendmetit is placed upon ou" Stn.tuto book. This legislation is of a most imjiortaut character, affecting, as it does, the iriterests of every family in the [dominion. I hold ic to be a matter of greater importanco iu relation to the ]iublic welfare than the Pacific llailway, notwithstanding all the deep interest manifested in the lengthened discussion which took pli.ce on that measure. It is a cpu^stion which reaches every iiomo In the land, and is most intimately connected with tho health, prosjierity, and peace of the peoi'le. In. every way it ia entwined wltli domestic happiness throughout the homesteads of our country, and yet \\e are here, unknown to those who are so dee])iy interost-ed— without any j)etition coming from iinv Province of the Dominion asking such legislati(yn — K])riugiiig u))on the country a measure utterly unasked for, uuexpecied, and nudesired by the peojile. I ven- ture to say if this becomes the law of the land our table next session will groan under the petitions laid on it, praying for repeal of this objc^ctionable clause ; Inuidreds and thousands of our i)eoj)ie wnl be asking that they be not ti'eated in this way. Has any reason of a public character -leen shown why v.'o should so mutilate the original Act as to render it entire' operative 1 I assert there has been nothing niore than the personal and private vi. /s of individuals that we have beard in this House from opuonents whenever the temperance rpu^Htion has come nj) for discussion. Thei'e has been no appeal from ]>artles outside ; no persons claim to be aggrieved by the present Act. It is sustained by public sentiment, and the public will be shocked and astonished throughout the leiigth and breadth of the laud when they learn with dismay that the Senate has undone all the good which it did for them in 1878. I do not think that this is the last «'o will hear ot it, if this amemlment carries. ]\ly belief is that tlie (Government will not be held free from blame if the '''em])er.mce Act be thus destroyed, although it cannot bo said to be a Government measure. My belief is that the peojjle of this Dominion will look, as they have a right to look, to the Government to p.-otect them in the enjoyment of the rights they possess ; that they will think the Government is derelict in its duty in not saying that this legislation .shall not take place with their consent until public meetings hare been held to consider it, until some jniblio bodies have demaiuled it, and until the newspaper press of the country has so discussed the qut stion that Parlia- ment shall be satisfied as to the state of public opinion on tho subjoct. I think it is due to ourselves, and to the character of this House, that we shoidd }»ost])one a change so important until we have given those interested an opjiortmiity of express- ing tlieir views regarding it. 1 hope the House will not insist on attaching this amendment to the Act — an amendment which will render this measure (and wetem- ]ierai\ce people arethe best judges of the matter) nttcrly useless. Has any hon. mem- ber known as a ])rominent temperance man taken any part in jiromoting the passage of this amendment 1 Not one. It is not the work of temperance men; it is not an amend- ment jiroposed by those whoknow what will aid or injure the law, which we now have. We know well what we are doing, and what pov/er we have under tlio present Act. We know that it may )m made cxceediugly beneficial, as it is, but we firndy believe that, with tiu; addition of this amenduii'iit to it, its usefulness will be entirely destroyed. Arguments have been very freely adduced, although I think they are not in ]>lace here, as to the elliciency or inefliciency of jirohibitory legishition, and the attainment of tho end it has in view. Tc Is all very well for lion, gentlemen to stand up and tell us that in j)laee3 where the ;>rohibitory law has been jmt in force \h lias proved a failure. We know there aie instances where all laws are failures, as far as preventir.g crime is concerned. All laws are broken by some jiarti "s. So it is no ai'gumont against the law to say that it is ijroken ; Vait I contc.'ud that in dealing A\ith this questio.i we slioidd take a wide view uf it, and not be guiiKnl by narrow vi?wa or isolated cases presented to us. If we look at statistics which are f eliable we can see that great good has resulted from the prohibition of the sale of i DKUATE ly nil] SEX AT K. 51 \ AiitoxicaliiiLC liiiiioiK. f'an we iTit believe our own (.'oimiiissioueis — men clioseii beenusc! of tlieir iituess to make tlie examination v.iili wliicli they w(;rG entrusted, who visited the States wliere jiroliibitory laws were either ■wholly or jiai'tially in force? Uan wo not believe (heir report i Their t<-:;timony is irrefragabk;. Tt ])roves that wherever proliibiiory laws have been fully or even partially enforced their lesidts have Ijeen most benetieial to the community. Their gaols have been <.mipty for months, j)au|)erism lias disappeared, there is no need of i)olice oflicers to preserve the jieaco. Gro across the ocean and what will you tint! there ? Have you an i " '! that tlien; is no jirohibitior. in Enjrland! I tell you that j)rohil)itiou exists thei\;intlje most stringent form, and with most l)ene(ioial results. There is a power ther^ of which we know little in this country — landlords holding extensive territory and having absolute control within its limits. ]M any of those landlords have laid it tlown as an inlloxible rule that no liijuor shall be sold on their estates. lion. ]\rr. TvAULBAni — Except beer. Hon. Mr. Vidal — I'eer is also prohibited, for tie beerliouao is regarded as the gi'catt'st curse that could be intlicted on a jilace. There are many such estates. You can find whole towns, if you like, where ])rohil)ition prevails. You have heard, no doultt, of the town of Saltaire, erected by Sir Titus Salt for his employees and their families. It is a town of 10,000 inhal)itants, without a single liquor shop. What is the con.se(jueno<' ! Almost an eiitiro absenct; of crime, no pauperism, no ])olice needed, and, in |»laco of saloons and bars and ]>laces of ill resort, they have reading rooms, libraries, and places of that kind. Go where yon will, throughout the world, wherever this matter has bean fairly tested, the results .have been the some. 1 challenge anyone to prove that pi-ohibicion, where fairly tried, has ever failed to accomplish what the tem|ierance people claim will result from it. \\\ view of the imjHH'tanco of this question, and esjjecially in view of the fact that the outsiile public so materially alfected by it hail no voice in the matter, I hope the Senate will not force on them an an)t>ndment so distasteful, and the passage of which will do groat discredit to this Chaml)er. Wo stand high in the estimation of the large majority of tliB public, because we stood as the champions of the jiublic rights, it gave to us a ))restige in the eyes of many thouspiuls in this co\uitry, which I very much fear will be jeopai-dized, if i*: is not entirely lost, bv the position the Senate has taken to-night. J once more entreat the House by what is duo to those who aro looking to us for protection in this matter to refuse to pass this law as aniend(;d. Hon. Mr. J)u;kkv — ^ly lion, friend says there has been no recpiost on the part of the temjienince [)eople for this aineuilment, and therefore, he says, it ought not to pass. I should like to iuipurc how it is he asks the House to adopt his Bill after the declaration of the father of the Tempei-anco Act that the temperance people did T\ot ask for it, and were not aware that it was to be brought in. If we are not to adopt the amendment because the teui])erance people did not ask for it, why did the hon. gentlenuxn ask us to ado])t hi.s Bill \ ITor.. J^lr. ViDAi.,— That is a ipiestion very easily auswerevl. In the iirst ]dace, the Bill which T introduced does not allect the Act in any material way. It is merely a correction of alleged eri-ors with a view of preventing vexatious litig.itiou which might arise on ])oinls of no material importance. I introduced the Bill becau.se it had b(^eu brought before tiie Hominion Temperance Alliance, ami they desired wv, if I thought the liill of last Session nught bo .safely introdue.'d, to do so, because they thought it would be helpful t« the Act. But rather than have any ditlicadty about it, though I shoidd be glad to .see the Bill as introiluced carried, I would willingly let it drop. Hon. I\lr. M(^Lkla\ — The hon. member from AmhersL has asked a queition. One ansv/er may be found in the ftct that the temjierance ]ieo]t]e rested secure on what had been given them on th<\ faith of I'arliament. Several hon. gentlemen have admittt^d that this was a compromise between the temperance people and THE SCOTT ACT. Parlirtnieiit — that the temperance pe()i)le caino to both Houses asking for total pro- Libitiou, and instead of obtaining that a compact was uiatlo that they should hav3 this optional law. It was accepted, s-nd the teinperaoco people were satisfied, provided machineiy were given to work that out in detail. Here waa a compact made bf^tween Parliament and the temperance j)eople, who are a very great power, as I think will bo shown when the time comes to appeal to the country. I regard this as a very important matter which deserves more consideration than almost any question that can come before us. Hon. gentlemen sliould weigh this matter calmly and see what will be the ell'ect of any amendment to tiiis Bill. Now, I say the amendment is a violation of the compact that was made in 1878. The hon. Senator for Amherst says that this amendment tloos not touch tlie principle of the Pill. Why, hon. gentlemen, the principle of the Pill is alcohol, and this amendment allows yon to touch the principle of the J'.ill up to ten per cent. If the legislation were consistent with the arguments that hon. gentlemen brin" to sustain it, they slioidd go further, and instead <»f saying tiiat ale, portei, lager beer, cider and light wines, under ten [)er cent, of alcohol, shall be exempt from the operation of the Temperance Act of 1878, von should extend it to the Act jiroliibitiug the sale of linuors in the North-West Territories. Whv have the wliite •:ien any hotter right ro their aU;, jiortcr Ijeer and wines under 10 per cent, of proof than the Indians! Jly hon. friend from Pritisli Columlna hero to-ilay argued that tiie superiority of the white man over the Indians is because the furn:er has been accustomed to the use of stimulants. Now, if this be true, and you want to Vuiug u|) the red man, if you want to make him equ.il to the white man, and do away witli that enormous responsibility wliich he is to us in the North- West, give him his wine ami ale and porter, and bring him up that he mav rise to our levid. Put I thiuk if you did that yuu wouhl just have the same result that you will have among the white po[)\dation — drunkenness. A drnnken Indian may not differ from a drunken white man, but a sober Indian is better than anv number of " pale faces " ih'unk, but to ruak'^ legislation consistent with vour ariruments you siiould exem])t these artii-les from the o|)eiations of the Act rebiting to the North-West Territories. 11ie main force of the argument against this Pill has been that you are tyrannizing over certain persons who want ale. porter, lager beer and wines. One of my hon. friends here says that the great bor the Act slriU bi.< brought iutooporation or not, ;ind whi.-re it is now operative, it is more unjust to go l)ack on those pi'ople and say that all your lime and trouble has been for naught, the Act only applies to certain alcoholic drinks which are above the ten per cent, '"live those counties whicli have accepted tlie Act an opportiinity to test whether tho law, as it stands, is a benefit to them or not. Jf you must have th(^ nraendment, let it j)roviile that from this time forward, in all counties that may test the question, they shall decide wh(!ther they will aec(«pt the Act with this amendment or not. I think it exceedingly uuiair to go back upon the counties that have the l>ill in o])eratiou, and say all that th- y have done is of no avail, so far as total prohibition (the object at whicli they are aiming) is concerned. Hon. Jilr. Odkll — T am very much surpri.sed at the argument made use of by the hon. gentleman opjiosiie, that we should rot make this measure retroactive. I think he has forgotten altogether tho .seveutb .,ection of tiiis iUll as brought down by the hon. genthsman from Sarnia. There is a ret,roactivo clause in it which I ob- jected to w;ien we were in comnuttee. I DEBATE IX TUE SENATE. 53 pro- liav3 siied, paot jwer, !ill as first introduced; and, moreover, t^ho lion. ,Senat(ir from Sarnia says there is really nothing in this but a couple of trifling amend- ments ; one of them is to make the Bill retroactive. I Ton. Mr. McLelan' — My argument was that an amendment v/fhich touches the Bill should not be retro.active, but if the machinery necessary to carry out the conj[)act niiide botweon I'ailiamcnt and the temperance peo]ilo of Canada should be retroactive, there is no principle involved ; it is only in the ameudmcut. Hon. Mr. l{f;ESOR — All parties seem to agree that something should be dene towards securing the oliject which the Temjjcrance Act of 1S78 has in view. The hon. gcntlenian who moved the amendment lo-day to the Bill before the House claiuK.'d to be ;is strongly as any other member of this House in favour of removing as far as possible by law the vice of intemperance. Now, I have not as great an ob- jection to the princi])le inti'oduced by the hon. gentleman's amendment as many have. I sho lid rather the jirovision wenimadothan not that every city, town, village, town- ship, or county municipality should have the option of exeuijiting itself from the operation of the Scott Act in so far as relates to the articles mentioned in the amendment of the hon. gentleman from Halifax. I would, therefore, submit to the Hou.se the following aniendinent : — "That the sjiid ani(;ndnient to the 9tli clanse bo fintlRT .-irapndi'cl to rend as folloir.-, : — That tlie council of any ronntj. city, town, villiice or tewnship uuiiJcipiilitT in whii.li the Can- ada 'J'fiiiporanco Act <>f 1878 has hoen jr may Uereul'tcr be dwcUirod iu force may by by-law exeni[it from tlio ojiuratiou of th« said Acl tho sale ot ale8,|porter, lager beer, cider and liglit wiiics containing uudor H) per cent, of alcohcd.' That would leave it to the oution of the various municinalities t<.) exempt from the o]ieration of the Act the articles mentioned in this ariie aent. Where the Tem- perance Act is brought into force b(>fore jiublic o[>inion is prepared to carry it out it is sure to fall a tiead letter. I know several counties where the Dunkin Act was brought into force by a siindl majority vote. It was brought into force in munici- palities where public oiunion was not strong enough to cany it out, and where the operation of the law under the Dunkin Act was worse than before it was passed. The consequence was the reaction became so strong in the course of a year or two that the Act had to be iei)ealod. It is not desiuable tLut that should take phice in all cases, and I have no doul)t that if in municipalities they had the privilege of exempting from the operation of the IVohibitory Act the articles mentioned in the amendment of my hon. friend from Halifax it would satisfy public oi)inion. and a great deal of good might be accomplished by it. 1, therefoi-e, submit the amendment to the House, and 1 trust tlu! majority will sustain it. Mr. Si'EAKKR ruled that the amendment, in its present sli:ipe, was out, of order. Hon. Mr. Haytiiokne — I decline to second my hon. fi'iend's motion becau.se it shows th(> unwisdom of hasty action upon such an important matter as this. T have no doubt that my hon. friend's motion is excellent ; but I believe that in my Province such a law would lie inoperative — for this reason : that we have no ■county council, and no person by whom to put it into operation. Hon. Mr. Allan — I would like to say that the amendment pro[ioscd by my hon. friend opposite is not one that the House should entertain. I do not think it will answer any satisfactory object ; but I do think it wouhl be well for the House to [>auHe and consider whether the amendment ot the hon. gentleman from r.i THE SCOTT ACT. Halifax, wliicli has 1 icon canii'ii. ought not to lie ni;i(lo to iii)])ly only to munici- imltii's in which tlu' Ti'mjicninco Act may como into foipo in tho future. The municipaliticsi in which the Act is now in force have ailoptcd it knowing exactly what its ])roviiiion.s ."..'o. They know it entailed total prohihitiou of liijuor.s of all kinds ; tln:y know what they were about when thoy voted for it, and I do not see that theie can be any necessity for or wisdom or justice in disturbing tho existing arrangcinejits where the Act is uow.iu operation. If tho clause be made applicablo to idl classes in which tho Act may heresifter bo voted upon in any nuinici])ality then those who vote for ov against it know exactly what they have to exi)ect, and it will be for the advocates of prohibition to decide whether it is desirable for tho law thus altered to be put in force, and for theii' opi)onents to decide whether ihej will accept it in its new sha|)e To nij mind it would render the amendment which has just been carried a nuich less objiictionablo one if this restriction was added to it, but to adopt the clause as it now stands, with- out any such rftstriction, and to apply it to all cases where the Act is now in ojiera- iion. would be, under all the circumstances of tho Ciuso, a very unwise proceeding, and, 1 venture to think, a jiarticidarly uufurlunate one for this House to ado])t. I earnestly hope that time may be given to consider the (picstion, and that it will not be hurried through without carsful deliberation. Undoubtedly it is a most import- ant subject, and one wliich a largo number of the peo[tl(( of this country take ii very deep and earnest interest in, iuu' 1 should exceedingly regret if thijj House dealt with it in u hasty way, and without due regard to the serious consec|uenccs it may involve. I venture to suggest, therefore, that time should at least bo given to see whether a comprouuso might not bo arrived at, and, if it is determined that Vtecr and light wines shall be exempted, that at all events the amendment when finally passotl shall only be made to apply to those municipalities in which tho Act may hereafter be enforced. Hon. Mr. Almon — Did 1 understand the lion, genthunan to say that ho is paired with the hon. gentlenuui from British Columbia ] Hon. Mr. Allan — Certainly, but that does not prfAcnt me from speaking to tlie Bill. It only prevents me from voting. Hon. Mr. Botsford — Tliat Act has been called in force by minorities in many districts. If the temperance people had adopted tho couiso that was suggested to them by gentlemen who were favoural)le to some law which could be enforced in the Dominion, tht^y would hav6 tho sympathy of the majority of the peoph^, and there Avould be no such difficulty as they now have to contend with. The oljeclion to the suggestion made by the hon. g(Hitleman from Toronto is sini])ly this : in large counties where there are Ji\o or six thou.sand voters, for instance, in my own county, the Act was In'ought into operation by the votes of some DOO electors, and it is be- ing \ iolated from iiour to hour. Hon. Mr. Allan — Why did not the others vote 1 Hon. ]\lr. Borsi'oui)--Had such an amendment as that of the hon. gentleman fioni Halifax been made to the Act, they would have tho full sympathy of tho majority of the people; but tho temperance people, in their enthusiasm, think that by passing an act they can make a man sober. They maki^ a great mistake when they think by enacting laws they can cure all tliose evils. 1 shall give a single illustration of the working of this Act in the county from which I come. I have the very best information that that law ia being violated in every ])art of tlie county. J{fsj»ectable hotels are clos'^d uji, and a class of people who h.-ive not tho requisite means of accommod.ating the public sell drugged li((uors indiscriuiinatelv. Such parlies, Avhen convicted, nut having j)rop(!rty to pay tncs, an; put into jail, and linil tliomselves in more comft)rtable (juarters than they had b(^f(n'o. What is the residt 1 \'ou havi> tho sympathy of tlie people against this law, as in some cases the i)ersons who sell lirpior aie women. I feel satislled that the proposition. DEBATE IX THE S/LVATE. .)i> of tlio Iiou. guntleman is uu'; oiio that cm bo Hiistaiuol ; booauso it is not onf»rcv',l by the coiisoiit of tlio niujuiity of the peopk- wlieii it is brought into o|jeiatiou. Ifon.^ ]\Ir. McCi.ELAX (Hoiiewell)— The Act has not been long in forco in th(! CHMuity of Westmoreland, tim\ T tliinlc if it gets a longer trial the lion, gt-ntlonian will tind it to work .satisfactorily. In some olhcr counties whero it is in iorce, llicy find the same difKeultios exist, the same allege.! deficiency in the Act th.at my lion, f/iend from Sarni.a has now attemiited to remove. T'lif.refore, the ])roe(!edings undn on the third riMding to suinnit an amendment provid- ing that when any constituency petitioned for the introduction of tho (Jaiuula Tem- perance Act of 1878 tho electors should be allowed to ex[)ress their opinion as to whether they sliould adopt the Temperance Act as it is at ]u-esent or in the modi- lied form proposed by the amendment of the hon. gentleman from Ifalifax. I have iiad some ex[>erience in tiie liijuor trade, and iu the s.iio of lieei', porttM', and such light drinks. Our I-ocal House during last session enacted a law by which licenses could be granted to sell beer ; but it is well known that the houses which have taken out licen.ses under that Act are tho real dens of the Province, and we will be forced, without doubt, next session to repeal that law as being one of the 66 THE SCOTT ACT. most iiijui-ioiiH iiio:isiH-('.s on tmr Rtiitute liook, liecanso tlio trade wliicli is done under those liconscs, iiud wliicli is presumed to bo inoireiisive to those wlio frequent such houses, is tlie worst kind of licjnor triitlic. My intention at jiresent is to ask that Manitoba should he exemi)ted from the operation of the amendment adopted to-day. 1, therefore, move that tlio I'.ill he not read tlie third time, hut tliat it bo reiei'i'ed back to tlie Committee of the Whule Houhc;, to be amended as follows : — At the end of clause B to add the words : " And the saiil claustt shall not apply to IManitoba." Jlon. :\Ir. ITowLAN— I do not rise to Ojipose the Uill, but, in my o|ii;uon, both of the amendments are out of order. Hon. I\Ii'. Scott — The ameiubvent is ipiite in older. Hon. Mr. Howlan — 1 do not think any lion. s:;entlemau h.as a rii^ht to move an ameudiiieut alteriiK' the form of this iJill without uivitii: twentv-four hours' notice. lion. Mr. ])Ei.i,EUO.SE — I believe thit in legisia'ion of such importance as this, the House proceeds rather too quickly. 'I'here are many thirx^s to l)e con- sidered, and I believe that some meiuliers (jf this Mouse hailiiii^ fiom Qiieb.'c do not thuroui.'ldy understand the tpiestion. lii the I'rovince of tjluebee the fi'eliiu; is that the liq;ior tratHc ought to be greatly restricted, that the evil i)rodueed by that trallic is such that all means ought to be taken to end it. The feeling there is so much in that direction that the Legislatui'e of that I'njvince has jiassed a law giving to municipalities the right to piOi!il)it the sale of all liquors, including betM-, ciuc', wine, and such beverages, within their limiLs. By the judgment of the Supremo Court, it has been established that the local legi.slatun! had no power to legislate in that ilirection ; that such legislation was ultra cin;!i. Well, if that is the case, the rarliament of Canada should c(Uiie to our helj>, an I give us a law that will enable us to prohibit the liquor trallic when .so desire^. Wo have now that law on the Statute book, why then .so anientl it as to i>iake it at leuot uscdcss I I do not see why we from Quebec, like the lion, member from Manitoba, should not ask that the Province of t^r.^bec be ex(.'miiti;'d from the amendment of wliicii he ecjinplains. It is stated by th' lion, the mover of this Jii!l that if the amendment is carried tli(^ Temperance Act is killed. 1 may say, hou. gentlemen, that such is my own opinion, and that opinion is based upon lifteen to twenty year.s' experience. During that period J have been in a position to know soiiu^thing of this matter. 1 have found during my exj>erieiice that whenever a license is given to sell beer, cider, wines, or to ojieii what is called a temperance hotel, a thing which is allowed in our Province, it is giving direct facilities to sell ardent spirits at the same time. I, myself, know of many eases where temperance hotel keejiers were sued for selling strong lupiors. What is the lesult ? Parties sueing had to |)ay the costs, and were laughed at by the beer sellers. The law is evaded, and it is impossible to ]iunish those who violate it. Though J am not in favour of the Temperanc(> Act, as it stands on the Statute book (in fact, J. have always ojiposed it ; even when the oxSe<;retary of State presented his J >ill to the House, J spoke against it, and am still against it), yet, I say that when we cannot get better we shouhl take what is otfereil to us. I contend that, if the amendment of the lion, gentleman from Halifax is made part of the Temperance Act of 1S7S, it would be better to repeal the Act altogether, as its etlect, instead of jiromoting tem])(M'ance, would be the very opposite. As a representative of the Province of Quebec, I ask this Senate to jiostiione considera- tion of this amendment W(; are now considering, until wo can frame such a law as will be satisfactory to the different jiarts of the Dominion, because the proposition now made will not give satisfaction. The hon. gentleman from New i5ruuswick (Mr. Jju'sford) has asked lion, gentlemen who oppose the amendment if we believe that by making laws we can compel |ieo[ile to be temperate. I will ask the hon. gentleman does he believe that every law he votes for will niak(.' jieople good'? DEliATK IX THE SENATE. !) V lluw is it that Piirliamoiit paHsus Ihwh to punish the Sabbath breukors ? Does he thinic that such will niako bettor Christians of Sal)liatli bn^ivkors.if tlicv do not wish to olmy (Jod's laws by enacting Ininian laws against Sabbatli breakers I (.'ertainl\ not. J>ut it siiows that we have to niako laws to force men to do their duty to theii' Makei' and maintain order. .Such aro the reasons why wc; have to ("nact laws on the subject of temperance. It is well known that in this Dominion of ours the liijuor ti-alUe is a great evil, and w(i liavts to deal witli the ca.se as it stands. Tluro- fopulution which is to be found in that country, still I do not think it would do to liave two sets of laws in the jirovinees of the Dominion — one under which beer might lie sokl, and anotlie? under which beer might not be sold. The Province of Manitoba, ts i*; shall be enlarge:!, will be subject to all the laws which liave been proposed affecting Mani- ftoba — as it exists — save as regards subjects which are within the jurisdiction of r)8 77//; SCOTT ACT. this Piuliivinoiit. AH tlu laws that linvo bton ])a8Heil by tlio Dominion, rclutivo to ManitoliM. will a[iiily to that tcnitofy \vhi(^h is iKhhfil to it. Aiiioiij^st other law.s will Ik,' this 'ri'iiij>i'i;uu;i.' Act, as aiiiciulcil liy Pailianiciit ; hut it is ((iiitL' iiiaiiift'St to any hon. f,'ontleinaii who retlocts upon it, that it Avill ho Huhject always to what wc have enacted re^arJinj,' .suiijects within ouf jurisiliution, as (iistinguishcil froni that of thu local legislature. Ifou. Mr. Si'OTT — Then 1 luulcrstand tho lion, gontlemau to say tiiat the eirect of taking in that aiklitional territory will ho to withdraw tliat territory from the operation of tho )>resent jirohihitory linv as atVecting tho N'orth-West. The CJovern- ini'iit .iro prejiarctl to say that tile thousands of Indians who livi' in that territory shall be subjected to tho intlueneo of intoxicating liquors, but tlio Indians who live on tho other side of tho ]irovincial boumlary shall be preserved from it ; that wo have a paternal interest for thos(( who live outside, but wo avo content that those who live inside the province shall bo allowed to annihila'.e tliemselves with lirpior. I ilo not think it is worth}- tho CJovernnient to (tome to such a conclusion. 1 say it is an extraordinary conclusion to conio to. The Government, aTul both political parties, took some little credit to tliemselves fur havijig estaldished a prohibitory law in the North-West ; tho peojjle liavo gouo in and settled there on that basis : but now you are going to withdiuw a considerable portion of it and add it to Manitoba — an area of territory so largo that Manitoba is dwarfed into tin; sizcf of a county when compared with it — and declare that the prohibitory law shall no longer be in force there. I consider it is inconsistent on the part of the ( !'norn- ment, and a depai-turo from a wise polic}'. Hon. Sir Ar.F.x. Camimu'LT. — You will have tlie laws of Manitoba, but also tho.se which the Parliament of the Dominion ha\'o alone power to ileal with ? Hon. Mr. St'»TT — No ; tho greater should include the less, ^[anitoba should, at all events, have an ojiijortunity of pronoun-jiug whether she sliall adopt the pro- liibitoi-y law or not. Here is a territory where tho prohil)itory law lias been actually in force — advisedly in force, not by the action of t!ic people, Imt by the action of Parliament — and the jieople liavo gone into that territory on the faith that the pi-ohibitory law wa.s to be nr.iintained there in the interests of the Indians and those who settle amongst them. T'he consc^pienco of siu-h action as is now proposed will, I believe, be fearfv If it bo that tho prohibition is to bo abolished in that large area of territory the conseijueneo will be h/- lething that one cannot contemplate without horror. That whole coui\try will at once be subject to the li'pior traflic. People will rush in there from all directions and li(pior will bo sold indiscriminately to the luilians, and the eonse(]uences will be dreadful. lion. Sir Alkx. Campuell — Wo will discuss that when the liill I'omes up. lion. Mr. Scott — I will dis(ni8s it now ; it is germane to the subject under discussion, and the hon. gentleman knows M'hether I am exaggerating the case or not. Tho hon. gentleman knows whether it now recpiires a large force to protect that territory from the importation of li(piors — villainous stuff that go(!s under the natue of '' forty rod," " lire water," that poisons tho people and drives them crazy. But we ai'o going to open that vast teiTitory to tho liquor trathc, and permit it to be sold without reserve. Tlu^ conscquenc(! of such a step will be something terrible. Hon. Mr. fiiRAUD — I wish to explain that I mean Manitoba as it is, within its present limits. 1 do not go further than that. I suppose tho part of the teri-i- lories to be annexed to M;initoln should enjoy all the benefits conferred on them in the law for their organization. Hon. Mr. Hcot'l' — Tho Government do not say so. imiiATi: IX Tin: sf.xati-:. 69 IToii. Mr. (JiiiAiti) — r do r,(it know wli.it tlu^ (losociimctit will .say wIkmi tlin [>ill (;(>iiics Ijefon' the House. I shouJcl pief'jr iiol, tu Imvc the ('Xtciisiuii wiiliout these privil'ges. I tliink that th(^y liavo facilitiited, up to tho present time, tho c'iiK)iii/.;itiou of lliut tefiitory. ii«e in force in thrtio-fourth.i of tiie I'rovince. I should \><- sorry to .soo all that work lost, and, therefore 1 ask this House to exclude Manitoba from the o|)oration of this clause which has just been incorporated in this I'lll. Tf th(> itoiisc; will adopt my an;enduient it will render a service to Manitoba, as it has often ilone before. Tho members were called in. Hon. Mr. Uickkt — ^ly lion, frioin] Ijehind mo generally manages to carry his point, and I should like to assist him, if it is to be the end of this disoii.sslon. I, therefore, wish to know from tho leader of tho Opposition whether, in case my lion, friend who lias charge of the IJill will assent to this anuindment, it will be allowed to pass without farther opposition ( Hon. !Mr. Scott — [ do not think my hon. frieml ought to ask mo to completely sacrifice .all the views I have on the subject. I think the ])oinL will bo gained, and we will bt! but doing an act of justice if we comply with the suggestion of tlui hon. member from Manitoba. Hon. Mr. IIellkhose — Even though tho hon. leader of the Opposition had consented to let the liill pass without further o|)position, I do not know that he has the right to bind anybody else. I do not feel myself bound by any such arrange- ment, and will move any amciulment I see lit. Hon. Mr. Dickky — I mndo tlio suggestion in the interest of peace. The House will understand tlie spirit in which it has been met, and will understand tho necessity under the circumstances of voting down the amendment which has been ollered, an amendment which 1 was desirous, personally, of securing, if it was to l)ut an entl to the discussion. Hon. Mr. Giu.^hd — f olTered the amendment on my own yiersonal respon sibility, and was sur|irised when tht^ hon. member from Ottawa did me tlie honour of S(.'Conding it. I did not speak to anybody on the subject of my amendment. The Senate divided on the amendment, which was rejected by the followiu'; yote : — Cox TEXTS : Hon. Messrs. AikinM, Flint, McClt'lan {Hopewe 11) Scott, .•Vnimiui, GibbK, llcl.oiau (LonJond ■rry) Stevens, BiiillaigeoB (iirard, Mcllaster, Tnulel, JU'llorose, Grant, i'olietier, Vidal, C'hiinV'iR, Huytliornc, Ilcesor, Wark.— 22. Cbapais, Leonard, NOX-CONTKXTS : Hon. ]\Ie.ssrs. Almon. Campbell, bir Alex. I''frguaoii, I.cwin, Botnt'iiid, Ciirvtdl, Olasicr, Montgomery, liomliorville, dc, ( 'orinviill, Hamilton (Inlernan), XiHilnvood. limniuot. Itfv.r, Hope, Odell, Bovd, Dickey, Uonlnn, Kyan, Bull, Dickson, Kaulbdch, Simpson 21. CO THE SCOTT ACT. Hon. Mr. Scott ciillod for tlio yens .1111! imys ou tluMUoliou th;vt tlio Kill bo road the tliird tiuio. Tho Senate divided ou tbe motion, whicli was agreed to l«y tho following vot«! ; — Contents ; ITon. "MossrH. Almon, Jiotsford, ](oiiihi'rvine, dn liouriiRit, Hoyd, Bull, CtHUplvll. Sir Alex. AikinK, Arniiiud, ]!rtillur^'eun, Hell (rose, ("lialliTK, Ciirvell, Cornwall, Dover, Uickcr, Dickson, l'"erguFou, Flint, (lirard, tJrnnt, lliiytliorne, utv.inard. Qilibrt, Lcwin, (lliisior, Montgoninry, Hamilton (Inh'rmm), Nortliwood, Ho|if. Odoll, llowlan, Uyivn, KanUiacli, Simpson.— 25. NON-CONTEN'TS : Hon. Mos.srs. M.Ololan (Ilopeu-M), Scott, M(Lclan(/.o/»ioaitVT>/),StoTens, McMaRtor, Tnidel, Pellotier, Vidal, KticRor, Walk— 21. Tlio Bill was thou read a third time and pa.s.si'd. Hon. Mr. Ai,la\— I wish tootlbr an exiilanation with regard to a (inostion of order. J was not aware that when a member paired with another memlxn- ot the llous.' in referoncoto his vote on a particular quostiou that he was thereljy djsharred cither iVom appearing in the House, or, if he appeared, from speaking on the (pios-_ tion. Sueli has not been, so far as I can recollect, tho practice of this House or ot the House of Commons: since I have spoken, however, 1 have had an opportunity of seeing a paragraj.li in .May in reference to the subject, from which it would ajipear, thougli not verv cleai-lv, that this is the pnictice in the House of Lords. If. therofoie,'l have unwittingly ollbndcd agaiusc a rule of the Jlouse, I api^oguo for doing so, and iiarticularly to the hon. memljer from Halifax. 01 ai al 1" ai h a THE IIIESS UPON SENATOR ALMON'S RESOLUTION. From the OUauui Citizen, March 7th, ISSl. Hon. Mr. Aliuoii, the Senator from Hnlifiix, has t,'ivcn notice th.it, on tlie order Wnn^ culled for the third roiuliiifj of (Hill M) -T(!n>|ieninee ActH -further iinieiidmeiitH to J^ili, he will move the folluwint; anieiidnient ; "That the lieidiiii: in ;iles,|)oiter, lager lieei' ;indlii;ht wines lieexenijit fi'om theo|ieriition (;f tlii! (\'anadiiTeni periincoAct of l.S7i^." We would, imh'ed.he very relnotiint to oiler any HUirgestion ur advieo to so judieiid a legislative body fiH tho Dominion Senate. Wo will venture, however, to express our candid wisii that this ninendnient will he nnanlniouHly ado|)ted. Society is not at [jresent |>r(|)ared to accejit the radical ideas of most teni- jieranco ,vo tho lirst object of logislation. The consumption of light winos. of boor, lager, porter. (!tc., is among the best means to exclude the use ot strong liijuors. They oaniiot in the ordinary sense be calleil intoxicating, in fact, many m(Mli(ral men considei- thom in a great measure mild ami nutritious stinndants. Last year, in tiie United States, 11,000,000 barrels of beer were consumed. This represents nearly eight gallons to every man, woman and child of the Ameri(5in itepublic, and is a strong evidence of the great extent to whiidi tiiey are superseding gin, whiskey, Ix-andy, rum, and which have such delot Act of lf<78. Tho ]iriiiciple of " local option " is in a great measure considtned a very good and reasonable one. (fladstone is said to have endorsed it, but ho qualified his endorsation by adding tho word " compensation. " If tho Act of 1878 is to lemain in force, wo submit it is onlv lliir that the manufacturers who are injuriously jitfected by it should be rA>\\\- pensated. If a man has a biewery (and there a)'e lagor beei' breweries s{)nnging u|> in many places) in a certain county, and his traile is local, it would certainly be a great injustice to ruin his fortune by an enactment which would destroy ]ii legitimate business. Wo submit that if our temperame friends liave at lieart tho good of their cause they will accept unanimously Mr. Ahnon's wise amendment. Its tendency will be, as we said l)ofoi'e, to curtail the abuse of intoxicating liquors and substitute therefor mild native wines and refreshing beverages of lager, ale, jiorter, etc. Messrs. Almon and l>i-ouse, who are in a measure strong temperance men as well as emineut jihysicians, probably n^cognize as we do the wisdom of the ]>roposed amendment. We i-eally hope the Senators in their wisdom will think as we do in the promises. From the Ottawa Citizen, March Hth. We observe that some Opposition journals attempt to make political capital out of the Senate's vote upon Hon. Mr. Ahnon's amendnunit to the Scott Tonipei-- anco Bill. This is scarcely fair in view of tho fact that the majority recorded in G'2 TIIJ-: SCOTT ACT. fiivoiir of the iii.n^^n.lmoni is composed of gontlpiiicu wlio scliloin, if ('V(;r, vote with tlie existiii!' Govoninit nt. We 1 lav (liH'tulv i;ivt'ii oiK^ it;ii.soii f.ii l.cl lOVlll!' that of tomiH'iaiR'O and ti.cal any vem<.'egislation, in order t<< be constitutional, must bo based upon common sonse ami justice. Power, because possesiicd. ■w})«;n ussd ilt.r.potically, is the reverse of wise — and its mandates virtually bcconu inoperati\e, because a vast ma)(jrity of jicojiie are always }>repared to discriminate between moderation aid a resort to tho exorcise of extreme or violent tactics. It must Ix- rcn'.embered that the law does not jirol'iliit a full cellar, or the entertainment of company in pri\ate liouscs ; sucli can inimijH to tlu-ir heart's content ; neither can it l>e imagined that by the vote of a siuall majority intoxicat- ing liipicrs can be suppre.s.sod in any county orgi'ouj) of counties, .doro than this, \uitll a Government is prepared to lose millionfj of reveiuie, as well as to comi>ensat« those wlio now enjoy vested ricr^'ts nnder acts of ParJiament, and until temperance advocates can show by wh-.: method they j>ro[)osi3 to j-ecoup the public exchequer as well as those whose business they propose dis})ensing with, it is utter folly to ask for tlie endorsation of extreme legislation on the ;;ubject of tem()erauce. A man'e mouth ca.mot bo closed by kgi.s' ition, nnlcss tho ]i(:na]ty of death is attached to indulgeiice in liquor.-', it Is ciased to'i often, we admit, arid the ]ienalty of death follows, without legislation, by the intemperate use of intoxicants ; hence, tojirevent thai, a hardy population should be denied the right tirituous liquor.^— such as brandy, whiskey, gin and rum— consumed, the better for all classes of society ; let tenqx-rance advocates be content to test public opinion in this j.oint, then when national sentiment is rijio for mor(! sweeping legis- lation — and the jaiblic exchequer can bi; drawn on to totally abolish distilling — let such manufacturers Ix* conqieusated and their business closed. After this, if experi- ence justifies still further reforms, the avenue tlu'oug'i whicii to bring them ab«ut is ojien, just as it is to-day. Hie question siioidd not bi; made political, for v o mc not aware there are iuiy returns nr statistics to provi^ that the consui>q)tion of intoxi- cants is confined to any one particular jiolitieal l)arty. On that score there will never be a monopoly, never can U-. A conqiromi.se might be ellected by electors, "t the time of voting, being allowed to declare upon tlie two distinctive projiositions ; however, this mode would hare many diawbacki'. We think, then, that the amendment endorsed by the Senate will make the measure aceeptiible to those who believe in moderate legislation — and, no doubt, the representatives of the peo]»le in tho House of Connuous will accept the bill lus it is. <')p]\I(}XS or THE rilKSS. 03 te with li,' tliiit 111 ti.iiil i.sliiliou of the iteiiK'ut, ol)jl'Ot tf'vcr is last in*.'; tllDtllt.T :i oam- 11! iiik-e \ lii'ori llH'ti(_IH I oils -lit slatioii, I'd WIT, imbtcs i('|iare(l rcino or ill jcllar, ir lieiU't's ntuxioat- lau this, iilK'iisato ipciance leijiieras to ask A man's taciJU'd to of .Icatli o])n'V(.'nt orjHjr'icr, 'A' lifu or )al)ilitit:'S. I juiliciiil extrerno ■s. '["hat ilicial to ' eininout ot iiu)re Ijcii, that nod, the it public wj, JcLjis- iiii<4~-lct it'i'xpuri- aliftut is li arc not ". intoxi- ill novor (lio tini0 From the Muiiirad (Jar.cUc, Miirck l.Uh. It is, wo think, greatly to lio roi^rottoil that tho ffiends of tho S(,-otfc Act liavo peisis-tcd, lioHi last year and this, in tlnar cfturts to obtain aniondni'.>nts to it. The Act. in tho first instance, ultliongli introchieed by a Alinister, and although lu' lias been honoured since by liavinj; it identified as Ids Act, was really the work of the teinperaiH'O men in tho House. Thev bail tho. fullest opportunity of making it just what Ihey waiito- jiortunity of carrying their view.s into eirect if the people were with them. With tho single cxoc])tion of Mr. Anglin, who, it will be reuiomb(n'ed, left the Speaker's chair for the jiurpose of opj'osing th" bill, there was no opposition offered to it in the Com- mons at all. Under these circumstances, it wouhl certainly have been wiser had the friends t)f the moasun^ consented to allow its value to be tfsstcd by practical expei'ience, without coming to Parliament e\ery .session for amendments to it. Last year they introduced a l)ill in the Senaie, which in the Commons was amended by what is commonly known as the Houltbee aiiKUidment, reijuiring u majority of all the voters to assent to a by law as tho condition of its passage. On tlie return of the bill to the Senate that body refused to concur in it, and the measure f(rop[)od. t^'ndeterred by that exi>eiience, Mr. ^"idal hns again introduced a bill to amend the Scott Act, one of tho objects of whicli was to legalize the vote iu the county of Lanibton, about tiio leg.ility of which some doubts had arisen, although of course tho county of Lambton^is not mentioned ii tho bill. The sr.me fate ha., overtaken this measure, bn*' lias i"d from the t)perations of the Act. The discus:ion on AVetlnefiday night upon this snl>ject was a very animated one, and ended in tho adoption of Mr. Almon's aniendnient by a vote of L'S to 20 ]\lr. Vidal then moved the three months' hoist to the bill itself, but his motion was lost bv 29 to 25. Several amendments wen? afterwards put, but all shai'od the same fate, and the measure iinaliy jiassed with the amendnient, and has gone down to the Commons. \Vhaij will be its fate there it is impossible to say. At this jieriod of Uie scs-^ion we would not be very much surprised if the bill failed to lie reached. It will liave to go on the pulilic orders, and as there; is now oiil\ one day in the week for such orders it is very douijtful if the measure will bo reached. There is a great deal to be said on both si. les of tl'.is question. There can be no doidit whatever that if the peojilo of this country could be induced to ('ontlne their dritdiing to lieer and liL^'it wines di'unkenness, with all its concomitant evils, would jiractically disappear. That is a proposition which we think will be verj' generally acce])ted. On the; continent of ljuroj)e, where light wines are the common beverage, di'unkenness is almost an un- known vice, and where it prevails at all it. is in those districts where the jiooplo Jiavi: acipiired or are acquiring a taste for more ardent spirits. Tho question is, •whether the exemption now jn-opo.sed to bo made would really result in people con- fining themselves, where tho Scott Act was in forci', to tho us(! of these lighter )iL'V(!rages. It oni' coidd bo assuroil of that, there would be a strong rea.son thoreliy for adopting the Scott Act as amended in every city and cotmty in tho J)omiiuon. The fear, ot eour.se, wf those who are ojijiosed to this meastire is that licenses to sell beer and light wines would practically be made to cover the sale of spirits as well, niul that the Scott Act, in its prohibitory clauses, wovdil become absolutely iiiojiora- tive. Thero is no doubt danger that this wiadd lie tho result. On the other hand, tho experience of the Duiikin bill was that the effect of local prohibition was to drive people to the use exclusivoly of ardent spirits. I'eor and light wines cannot 64 THE SCOTT ACT. very well bo sold illicit ly — they are too bulky ; \n liilo every mau can liave a flask of spirits in bis jiocket, and drink to bis lieart's content. Anyone who has ever seen public gatherings, such as agricultural fail's, in to'iimships where the Duukin Act was in force, will admit how common was the practice of individuals carrying bottles of si)irits in iheir ])ockets. The result, in so far as this obtained at all, was to force the use of precisely those beverages which are most dangerous and most deleterious, to the exclusion of those which even temperance men will admit are comparatively innocuous. Wo are inclined to think, therefoi-e, that the eli'ect of this clause would be to encourage on the part of those who desire to use intoxicat- ing lirpiors of any kind the use of beer and light wines rather than of s])irits, and to the t'xtcnt that this was the result good would undoubtedly follow. The ditfi- culty which we see in tiic matter is this : The Scott Act was j)assed in 1878 by the concurrence of all parties. The Dunkiu Act, which preceded it, was aH admitted failiu-o. This one is yet but an oxpenmunt, and the rpiestion which deserves con- sidci-ation is whether, having granted this Act, by the common consent of all jiarties, it should not liavo a fair opportunity to vindicate its usefulness, if that ia possible, by actual experiment. For ourselves, we have no confidence in the Act, and do not believer tliat it will result in materially lessening the evils of iiict'mpor- ance where it is adopted. Jjut that is a matter to bo tested by experience. The Act has been adopted in a mmibor of counties already. ""- by not allow it to have undisturbed sway for the thr(;e years during which the by-laws remain in force? Tlie tendency of these changes must be to create further agitation in the country on the subject of prohibition. The temperance men naturally will refuse to accept a» an ex|»erimt;nt of their i)rinciples a measure which they wholly disapprove, while on tliB contrary, if having had an opportunity of testing their favourite {)anacea, and that the same lesults should follow thai exi)eriment as followed the operations of the Dunkin Act, then they may fairly bo asked to return to the sound princij)le of moral suasion as a means of advancing the cause which they have so much at lieart, a. d the success of which, in so far as it promotes abstim^nce from the use of iinoxicating liquors, cannot rosidt otherwise than in beuelit to tiie com- umnitv. BEFOllE THE BATTLE. EXTENSIVE DISCUSSION Ul" TllK I'llOHIDITION QUESTION. From the llamiltoii Spectator. Alurch ''J^th. Said iv very wo.-tliy gontlctvau tlio other 'Iny : '•' 1 am iiii o]i])onont of tlie Scott Act and inteiKl to ■>.ote against it. but if [ thouglit tli(3 working clasess reallv wanted a law to ])rotect tliem from their own apjietite for ihink — as tlie temper- ance people tell me — ^l wonld be quite willing that they slionld have it. But 1 am a considei'able employer of labour, and 1 can't see where all this drunkenness is which they are talking .so much about." Tlie cry of the working classes is the great card ol the prohibitionists. When they canvass a man who is in busincsa oi' is engaged in some other avocation, and are told by him that he uses liquor, the standing re])ly is, " Oh, tht^ law is not intended to have any effect u|)on peojile like you, it is intended for the woi-king chisaes." All tlie prohibitory legishition wi; have had in Canada lias been so formed as to be as little of an inconvenience to the rich as ]>ossible. Tlie Dunkin Act allowed sales of liquor in five gallon quantities. Where the SL'ott Act pei-mits sales to be made it i.s not to be in ((uantities of less thnn ten gallons. Tliei-e arc men in favour of the Scott Act in this city whose cellars are comfortaljly stored with liquor; who drink the jnquant wine or the satisfying ale to dinner and enjoy it, but they are satisfied that for a woi'kingman to t;iko a modest glass of lager to his meal or aftei' a day of liiird toil is a dangerous jtractioe. In the ojiiiiioii of such men workingmen arc/ lacking in self-control, thev have not had the education of the rich, therefore, the I'icli o.iglit to take charge of their morals and jirevent them from doing wrong. Tlieso men know conijiarativelv nothing of the inner life of workingmen, of their s])ceial sentiments or modes oC thought ; they have never mingled witii them u|i(m equal terms and are incapable of iv.iucrstandiiig them. Tiieir notion of workingmen is that when they get their ^vages on Saturday nigiit they go straight to a tavern, sjiead a considerable share of their money there, and then go home reelim;- dninlc. Therffore, the rich must take tliem in charge. A few considerations on tliis point may be worth presenting. We object altogether to this S])ecial treatment of the working (tlass. It is a I'elic of the old times when workingmen wen^ really the inferior class mentally and morally. That day has long gone past — certainly so far as the skilled arii/aii cla.ss is con- cerned. ]\Ientally and morally that class is not inferior now to any other class in the community. Tliei-e is as large a ))roportion of general intelligence ainnng them as among any other class. They probably read a Itetter cla.ss of books than any other class. There is less mental worry and an.xiety in their daily woi-k tlian in that of any cither class, and more ]ihysical labour, and conse([uently their minds come fresher to the work of good instructive r(.'ading than that of the man who has been poring over account books all day or worrying about the multitudinous cares of biisinesH. In the instruction derived from healthful literature W" believe work- ingmen are the sujierior class. In the conventional nuiiiners of what is called good •lOciety — which giv(^ the outside ajipearanco of refinement — they are not the etpial of ethers, if that is of any iuqiorta.ice ; but in innate ivtinement of sentiment they are not inferioi". They are as sober a class as any other. In fact, sol>ri<'ty antl A)() 77/ A' SCOTT ACT. oxcoss ill tlio uso of li (iior do not spring from a class, luit from in(li\ idual tonipeni- inont'or constitution, Now, the class of wlioni this can tr\itlifnlly lie said stand in no need of the jtatronizii.;:; attentions of thoso who havo no advantaj^e over them excejit that tiicy have nu^re money and ))erlnip3 wear hetter eiotlies. Patronage implies superiority on the jiavt of the patrons and inferiority on the part of the patronized, and liegeta superciliousness in the former and loss of self-respect in tlie latter. Ws speak the sentiments of tlie more advanced intelligence of tlie work- ingmen wjien we say that it is an offence to it to he patronized liy kitlgluveisin. \Vorkingnien do not desire to he treated as wards of the rich, or of those who at all hazai'ds make a show of being rich. It is a too common jiractico for the self-seeker to conic before them in fine dress, and witli tine jihrases ])rofess to bo their special friend. He generally bt'gins liy telling them that he is a M'orkingman himself, and, therefore, has sym]iathy with them. It may Ite true that he is a workingman in .some sense, but not in the sense in which he wishes them to understand the term. In nine cases out of ten his object in ap|. earing before tlunn is to avoid becoming a workingman in their sense of the term, lie is most likely promoting the "genteel' business in which he is engaged ; i)ossibIy lie is looking for their votes. He has some game of humbug on hand beyond a question, and workingmen have come to know it l)y very disappointing cxjierience. It has to be couIcssihI that there are some worki'.igmen addicted to tiie intern [terato use of liquor. They form about the same ])roportion of their class that the intemperate do of any other class, certainly not more, [lerhaps not less. Will they bo cured of their intemperance by ihc Scott Act? Here is the experience of the Portland i'/Vo'A' on tiiat point, regarding the Maine law, which is really prohibitory : " N. D. (Neal Dow) says we iuive in Portland 130 low, secret gin shops, and he is not likely to overstate the nuitter. These gi'Og shops ofier t<^mj)tations to the very classes of our community to whom temp- tation is most dangerous — to men who spend for rum the money wiiich ought to go for food and clothes and shelter and warmth for wives and children. In their ))ractical workings these rum shops in kitchens and outhouses are more hurtful to the com- munity tiian the same number of open and conspicuous places would be, becsui.se i;hey olTer special allurements to the kind of men most injureil by the use of strong drink — the men who have i. ^c about them social restraints anJ the self- restraint which comes^of education and intelligence. To thes? 130 groggeries should be added the sixty or si;venty " club rooms " which have come into exis- tence because of prohibition legislation, and which, in their way, are a ])eculiar Maine product. We took occasion a year ago to discuss this <;lub room (juestion pretty fully, and shall not now rt;peat the sugg(!stions. We v.ill only say that the secrecy and convenience of them, the social opiiortunities and th j games there played, furnish an enticement to young men and boys which optsn g.'og shops would never give, and tlie whole system seems a sort of nursery of dissolutoness." With such facilities as these, would not the workingman of intemperate habits have abun- dance of opportunity for the indulgence of his njipetite ! From (hi! Ihonihoti Si>€ct(itor, March 17th. Prohibitory legislation is no exjieriment. It has been tried in every siiajteand form, and under the widest variety of circumstances. Maine is i>ot alone in having had it on her statute books. There is a long list of States who.se people believed that a nrohibitory liquor law would stop drunkenness with its attendant evils. A list of these States is not at hand ; but we believe, at one time or another, Maine, New Hampshire, N'ennont, Massachus(;tts, Rhode Island, (JoniuHiticut, New Y'ork, Ohio, ^Michigan, Minnesota and Kansas have tried it. This list is from memory and subject to correction. Where is the prohibitory law in force now ? It is on the stiitute books of Maine, and recent discussion has shown how it works there. We believe it is on the statute books of ^'^ermont, but our teetotal friends make no refer- ence to its beneficial cllects there;, Kansas has just jjassed it and there are no sta- tistics ye as to its working in that State ; but a man who has been through it will HE FORE THE nAlTLE. smile wlieii he tries to im.igiiin tlie opfoi'Cfincnt ot tin' biw iu Doiige City or Al)ilt'i.(' But iu the otlior States where is it I Kolio imswcrs wlicre ! Why was it iibaii- doncil] iJeciii I'c, instead oC (ioiiii^ i,'ooil it ill 1 h;iriii. It he'^iime a faree. Instead of restricting the sah; of liquor it exb'nded it. Instead of sto)>])iiig (h'link- onues it bocaine general ; and the people of all these States, after brief trials of the great panacea, wei-e forcerl in self-defiMice to I'cturu to the license system. Proliibition I'aiied in tliese States Ijecause the gf^neral moral sense of their people 'iid not hold tmiqxn-ate drinking to lie morally wrong. Elaine always had very stringent li(pior laws ; tliere is more teetotal s nitiment iu that State than iu any other civilized comnumity. The most the temperance people; claim for Maine is that the use of liquor has been reduced iu some of the villages an.l c(unitrv dis- tricts. And not the slightest pi'etence is made by the uu)st e.xtravagant of them that it was ever beneficial in any way, shape or uvnuer iu any other State. Now a law oovering >i. whole State has a manifest advantage over a law coutlued to a single citv. Not oulv '"■ the maimfaeture and sale of liquor iu tl'.e State forl)idd(!U, its importa- tion is illegal. Hut iu llamilrou, if the Scott Act could by enforced, the man who wanted a drink at i bar has only to walk a mile to tiud the b;u', and if he wanted to leai-u whether the particular ilram iu hand is endorsed by legislative sanction, or sustained by the solemn author- ity of fundamental law. Not only hive prohibitory laws been tried with disastrous results in Canada; they have been tried in England itself witli like termination iu abject failure. In the year 173(), during the reign of George ] f., a very satisfaeuiiy ".'xperiment was tried. The Gin Act was designed to be prohibitory in its <'tfnct. It im|ios(>d the enormous excise duty of twenty shillings pm' gallon on gin and all other spirituous li(piors, and if it was proposed to sell in cpiautities of less than fvo gallons a charge for every such retail license was fifty pounds stin'liug per annum. This Act, which is known in history as the Gin Act, was not a Ministerial measure, but {iroceeded fioni the benevolent -siews of Sir Joseph .Jekyll, a man of philan- thropic feeling, but most impracticable in ^ds measures. The Premier, Sii- llobert ^"'.v'pole, d';approveil of the measure, because »:> foresaw tluvt -ucli exorbitant re- strictions would defeat themselves aud encourage smuggling and fraud. Sir Robert madt!, however, no op|)osition to tlu; passing of the bill, merely predicting that his successors would be obliged to modify it, aiul insisting on such substitute soui'ces of I'evenue that the civil list should not lose in conseipieiu'e of this wild legislation. Violent gin riots were the first result. The Act eiulured only seven years, having been rejiealed in 174.'5. The result of these seven years' exjierience is given in Earl StaidiO|)e's words : " It was found, as Walpole hail foretold, that the duties im- posed by that Act, and amounting nearly to a prohibition, had only allbrded en- couragement and oppoi-tunity to fraud. The fai iners were terrified by the threats of the people ; justices were either unable or unwilling to enfoice the law ; and it ■was [iroved that the consumption of gin, instead of diminishing, hiid consideralily augmented since the heavy duties were impos(!d. Tinuiijh no license was obtained and 110 duty paid, the Hi]Uor continue'! to be .sold at all corners of the streets ; nay, we are even assured that the retailei-s of it u.sed to set up painted boards, inviting |)eo]>le to be drunk at the snuill expense of one penny, assuring them that they might be dead drunk for two pence and havi; .sti-aw for nothing ! Tliey accoi'dingly provided cellars or garaets strewed vrith straw, to which they conveyed those jwor wretches wdio were overpowered with intoxication, and who lay theie until they recovered some use of th ir undei-standing. whilst the other dens for drinking were liideous receptacles of tlici n.ost filthy vice, resounding with continual riot, oaths and blasphemy. To ch(?ck these frightful di.sorders aud at the same time prevent loss to as 77/ A' .SCOTT ACT. the revenue, the IMinistens frani<".l a now bill hy wliioli a sniiill duty per ^^alloii wtm laiil on the spirits at tlio still-ii(>a(l and tlio prii'c; of lii't'iiscs ic^iliiccd to twenty shillings. Through this nioasiiro it was t-alfiilated that the price of gin hy retail would be moderately l>iit really raised— so much as to discourage tlie drunkard, yet not so much as to encourage the smuggler ; that the law, being mitigated, would bo enforced ; ami that the revenue wouhl gain a clear and certain accession. The wis- dom of the preceding considerations would deserve our jiraise, as what reason suggests, and what experience has fully confirmed. " If prohibition lias fjiilcl in the guise of the English (Hn Act ; if it has failfd in the ITnited States; if it has tailed in Canada in the guise of the Diinkin Aci, is it not reasonably (-ertain that it viU fail in the guiiie of the Scott Act 1 Serious consequences to the revenue and to material interests and serious degradation of ]ml)lic morals accompany these failures in every case. Why should we invite these unfortunate results i>y an attemj>t to do that which all exi>erience demonstrates can ni^ver be accoinplisiied till the taste.s and temper of men become vastly other than they are now ! From t/ie Ildniilton SpecUUor, The ridiculous anti-treating law of Wisconsin is but a single incident in the abundant crop of li(iuor laws produced by this winter's legislatures. In Delaware a game of sea-saw is in progress. The Hou.so has before it a veiy stringent pro- hibitory bill passed by the Senate, while the Senate has already killed a local option bill passed by the House. The Senate bill is expected to become law. In Illinois the House defeated a pi'Ojiosed constitutional auiendnumt [irohibiting the manufac- ture and sale of liquor. In Indiana a local option bill was defeated in the Semite. In Kansas the new liquor law is giving mucli trouble. Citizens find themselves unal)le to buy cologne, bay i-um, spirits of cuniphoi-, etc., without a physicinn'.s jirescription, and one minister has publicly declared that although his church is liable to be closed as a nuisance, and himself sent to the State's [irison, he will nevertheless continue to adiniiuster tlu^ sacrament. IMeanwhile there? i.s a growing opinion that the law is unconstitutional. In Michigan a pi-'iptjsed prohiliitory constitutional amendment fuled in both houses. In New Jersey a local option bill was humorously debated, amendments being offered forbidding the use of tobacco, the wearing of wigs and corsets and high heeled shoes without popular con.sent, etc. Tlio bill did not become a law. In New York there is the usual variety of e.vcise bills, and a comirission has bei n a]ijiointod to revise and consolidate the existing laws. In North Carolina, a bill regulating the sale of liquors passed the House, but was defeated in the Senate. Tlieroiqion an ironclad law was pa.s.sed siibject to the opini(jn of i\\v people of the State, which is to be taken at an election on the first Tuesday of next August. Tli(> bill prohibits not only the sale, but the manufacture, and even the importation of spirituous drinks. The bill is favoured by the whites and the best of the blacks, and it is said to be a political rather then a temperance measure, the object of its jnomoters being rather to free the State from inspectoi's of revenue than from drunkards. In Ohio the subject is ueing actively discussed. }jut final action is not yet reported. If the Iiepul)licans do pass a liquor law, they will lose the boor drinking (termaii vote, and if they do not the prohibitionists will desert in a body. Either alternative seems so dreailfiil to the HepuMicau [)olitician of Ohio that his present lot is not a happy one. In South Carolina a new law protiibits the sale of liquor except in nnuiicipal corporations, where saloon keepers mus!, pay .^inO for a license, the amount going into the county treasiny. Charleston citv is an exception ; there a license costs .^iiOOaiid the money goes to the city. In Texu.' a bill submitting a constitutional amendniont to the people passed the Senate, but WIS lost in the House. In West Virginia a similar measure was lost in the Sfc'iate. I JiHFOUE THE hATTLK. ft» IDII W».S' twenty Jiy I'ctiiil lard, yet ^oukl be I'ho wis- I'easoii ■•l ill the las failed lit it -vill and to failures lt(Mll]Pt to TIr! tastes ■lit in tlie 1 )i' la ware igcnt pro- cal option n Illinois inunufac- lio HiMiatc. litMnselvt's ilivsicia.n'.s i c'liiiroli is on, he will a growing irohiliitory ojitiun bill :)f tol)acco, Dusent, etc. V of excise li(i existing he House, I subject to on the first inufacture, the whites ;einperanc(i inspectors ' (liseussed, r law, they ionists will 1 politician a new law )fin keepers Charleston p city. In tho iSenate, 'as lost in From titc llmiulLon Spec'.idor, April. ^SSt. Maine lia.s a larger territory than all tho rest of New Kaghmd. The number of square miles in each of the New JOiigland Htates, us given by Appleton's Cyclo- pedia, and the populatiun in lS8(t, are as fullow.s : — Popii'ation Population to Kiinarc miles. J8Su, Kjuaru iijilcs. Elaine ;^r),(i(iO 048,195 18 New Jlanipshiro ',l,-J,S() 317,784 37 Vermont li),-J12 :i32, liHG 32 ISlassachusetts 7, SUM 1,783,086 22'J llhode Island 1,300 270,528 211 Connecticut 1,750 022,083 131 Elaine has unexcell.Nl manufactui'iiig faci]iti(\-i, magnificout rivers, v/ith excel- lent mill privileges, immense forests and unsurpas.Hed harbours. Jiiil, while other New England States ha\» become hives of industiy, ]\Iain(3 has made little ju-o- gress for thirty years. x\. large ])art of her soil lii's uutiUod ; she has no consider- able cities except Portland, whieli is smaller than Hamilton, and her jiopidatiou does not incr(!ase. It will be noticed that Vermont, which has had a proliibit<.iry law on h(;r Statute book, and to some extent in force, ia next to Maine in back- wardness. 'J'iie incroasi) in ]lupnla^iull during the last decade has been as follows :- — \ Population. Incrcaiso 1870. 1880. per cent. Maine 02ft,<»15 018,015 3.02 New Hampshire 318,300 347,384 '.).20 Vermont 330,551 332,286 0.52 3Iassachusetts 1.457,351 1,783,086 24.45 lUiode Island 217,353 270,528 27.22 Connecticut 537,454 622,083 15.85 Tt will 1)0 seen that Vermont li:is increiised at m-en a less rate than Maine, but in the jii'i'vidus decade ViMiuout gained about 5 per cent, in po[mlatiou while 3Iaine gained only 1,030 in all, or a niile more than a cpiai'ter of one [ler cent. The States, then, having a prohibitory law have not at all liehl their own in poi)ulation ■when compared witli their neighbours. The two States whicli have banished into.xi- cating drinks are the only two States of the Union which for twenty years have made no substantial progress in puj-'dation. All around them populations have increased, cities have grown, manufactures have sprung up ; wealth has multiplied ; they have sat still, their principal industry l>eing the catching of citizens who vio- late their prohibitory li(pior law. Let us look at this fjuestion from another jioint of view. The populatiim ot JIaino in the year.s mentioned and the percentage of increase were as follows :— . Year.s. Population. lucroasc. Percent. 1790 1)5.5 10 .... 1800 151,71'.! 55,179 57.15 ISK) 228,705 70,986 50.74 1820 298,209 09,504 30.41 1830 399,455 101,186 33.92 1840 501,793 102,3.38 25.02 1850 583,109 81,370 10.21 1860 028,279 45,110 7.73 1870 029, !n5 1.030 0.25 1880 018,945 19,1/30 3.20 70 TllK SCOTT ACT. Tlio proliiliituiy liiiuur law went into opcnitioii in 1851. In tlio tiiirty years immediiitt'ly fulluwiiii,' its ii(l(>|ition the iiicreiiso in tlio |)L)piiliitionot' tlie Stiite was less tliaii ill the trii years iiiiiiiciliately preceiliu^ its atl()|t*.inii. It is the duty of t lie iieoi)le of lliuiiiiloii to caitfiilly weigh these facts. Tiu! Ilgiires made jiuliliu l)y .Iiidge God- (hird prove very conelu.sively that the prohil)itory hiw lias not eaused any dinnnii- tion of orinie in Maine. The fip,nros given aliov(.' show very pUinly that it has very materially operated to diminish population, hinder progress and arrest develop- ment. Like causes produce like results. i\laine is held uy to ns as a hriglit anil shining example, worthy of imitation. A study of this example tcachi'S ns that if we copy its li(pior legislation, wo will not mend our morals hy s<» doing, hut will sadly mar oiii material interests. l-'roia tiiii Baltimore Sun. In response to a letter from a gentleman of Wilmington, Del., Senator Bayard rcccntlv wrote a letter giving I'xpression to his views concerning the pending local option hill now heforo the Delaware Senate and pmliihitory legislation in general. It is as follows : — " I do not like to intrude my opinions unaskeil upim iiKMnbers of the Legislature. T agree with you in thinking ' locaJ option ' laws of very doubtful constitutionality and positive inex])cdiency. As I understand them they submit a law to p0])ular vote in local districts, and this defeats the jirinfiple of our govern- ment, which is representative in its character, and places the whoh^ law-making power and discretion in tlio hands of the Legislature and not in the people in their mere nnmorical force and jirimary capacity. If punishment of criminals was to be a'.ljudgcd anil inflicted by ' local option ' instead of through acts of local legislatures, executed by judges and juries, it would be held wholly at varianco with our theory of goverinnent, and yet to apply such a rule to so wid(.'-si)read and daily a habit as the use of alcoholic or ft'rmented beverages is, in my judgment, (juite as unsafe. So far as my experience goes a well regulated system of licenses, whereby revenue is largely brought into tlio ])ublic treasury, coupled with severe penalties for illicit sale, has jiroved the most ( tlicient check upon the alaise of the liijuor trallie. In many respects the question is a sumptuary one, and laws attempting to I'stablish sumi>tuary regulations become iiHpiisitorial and inipossiblo of execution, .so that in those communities in this country where they have been enacted they have either aggraviited the evils tlii^y wei'o intended to prevent, or Ii.ivo fallen into contempt and uselessness and be-'n re|icaled. The statements 1 have seen of the real condition of those communities in -.vhich total jirohibition has been attempted have ini])res8ed me veiy strongly in confirmation of these views. Personal iniluence ami example and prece])t and the recognition ot the great truth that intemperance in the use of stimulants of all kinds is a morbid physical fact, both in cause and ell'ect, is, in ray judgment, the pioper view to commence with. Statistics abundantly prove that the attempted sujipre.ssion by statutes of the use of alooholio stimulants is accompanied by an increase in the use of opiates, and that oj)eu tliiiikinu' being stopped secret drinking ensues. 1 do not believe any man has a greater horror of intemperance than I, and my appreciation of its dangerous and evil eii'eots grows with my exi)eri- ence of human affairs, but the graver the evil the more essential to apply, the right principle to its curs', and for the, reasons I have stated, and many others, I hope the exjieriraent of 'local option' will not lie tried by our legislature, but increased checks under the license system be continu(>d." "(IkAND \'lCTilliIES.'' A tabular statement of a "grand series of victories" for the Scott Act was circulated for eiicoiiragenu nt of the jtrohiliitionists of Hamilton. It is ackow- ledged by all the eoininon sen.se authorities in the prohibition ranks that a prepon- derating public sentiment in favour of such an act is absolutely necessary to its .success. Doi's this grand series of victories give au assurance of such a sentiment? UK ruin: Tin: iiattli: 71 Below we give i» tsiblo sliuwing the iuiinl)er of votes jwlloil t\)i- it wV.yai it liiis l.rcu passed, ami iilso tlio tula! mnnlKT nf vou.-.s in tlu; cuiistilueiify : — For Votera. Scolt A't. York,N.H -^SM' 1.2-) IVinco, r.K.l ''^^^ -^'^'^- C.u-loton, N.li ^^"^^'5 ^'"'•' Cl.adotto, N.B ^'-17 «<" AllMTt, N.r. -V">^ , '1^ KingH,P.K.l •'■'.^i'-^"' -'''i' Lanri.toM.Ont -.G'Jii li>' Kings.N.n Ml^ J?8 Quc::.H, KB ?.3H7 50 \Ve«tmorolan.l, N.B •''.MS 1,U^J Nortlunnbcrhiml, N.B ^^r^'-l ^"> y;;;;t:p.Ki::::::::.:;.: ^'h? '.=>» Di«bv N.S -''■^' ^^"^ Queens, N.S..: _U712 7G3 (1(3,897 i6,(i74 It will bo seen that in not a sin^'lo instance did a majority of the fU'ctor« ex- ,.,Tss their apiM-oval of the A.-t, and that out of nearly Hixty-seveii thousand voters less than Heventcu thousand ^otod fer it. The fact is that in the Maritime Pro- vinces it was carried because the'.o|.[.ositiun to it was not organized. J ho organiza tion will come witli the rellex of tlie wave. THE FIRST ENGAGEMENT. Tin; I'KKSS U['UN THE ilAMIl.l'ON ('(i.NrKST. From, the I'oronfo fCn'iiiir/ Tvltyram. Tho (It'ft'at of tlio Scott Act in llaiuiUou by so lai'Lj!) a imijoritv will liavo tho effect of throwing coKl water on tin- elibfts uf tlio ailvuoatcs of inoliiliitlDn in other phicea ; and there are times wlieu even advocates of jirohihition have uhjisctions to too njiicli cold water. They seem to lie more successful in the country luimicipalitie.s tlmn in the cities, and it might i)erhai)H be tiie wisest \i\m\ to niako snre of tho coun- try municipaliticH first. A reverse has a bad etl'oct, and gives tho enemy a start in the next campaign. From tin: Montreal J'ost, Tho jieojile of Ifaniilton voted on the Hiiott Act yesterday, and defeated it by the overwhelming majority of l,L't)0, thus sending it tho way of tho Dunkiu Act. Tho victory over jirohibition is no faidt of some of tho extreme temperance advo- cates, w!io used most sti'cnuoiis elibrts to have the Scott Act jjassed. They have been praying hard the })ast two months for its success, and have been distributing liand bills in its favour of rather a profane nature ; but all in vain. It would bo too much to exjiect that tho great dofea't in Ifalnilton will discourage tho ten>perance peoi)le altogether; one would think it should, for a great many of the less advanced of them do not approve of the Scott Act as a means of ciiecking the spread of drunk- enness. The report furnished by tho Globea Maine Commission may have had some- thing to do with tho result in JIamilton, whether tho fHoJh: intended it or no, but we believe the real cause of the defeat is the severity of the provisions of tiie Scott Act, one of which prevents its repeal until the i)(H)ple hav(3 had a dose of it for throe years, whereas tho Dunkin Act was liabio to be abolished any moment by a by-law passed by the majority of the i)eo}ilo in any county in which it was in force. There is a strong feeling in Canada against extremo uieasure.-i, and though tho temperance peo|)le are intemperate in their zeal, and drown tho voices of the nndtitude, the good sense of the great majority a.sserts itself in the proper place. Not that something should not be done to prevent the spread of intoxication, for it is a greal" and crying evil, but tho something must 'k; other than a Scott or a Dunkin Act. From the DnnJiis Standard. Now that the Scott Act has been defeated in Hanulton, it would be the most utter folly for the jieoplo of Wentworth to jia.ss it. There will bo no bar to tho procurement of liquor by any and all who desire it, and to legislate so that all who do desire it must go to Hamilton for their su[)plies will bo to drive other kinds of trade there as well. Tiiis is a side issue, but it is worthy of very serious considera- tion, and especially in Dundas. Our town is low enough now, and to ))a.ss the Scott Act unde,' the present circumstances woid'l be fatal to its material intereats, while gaining m thing for tho causo of temperance. ivo tho I otliOl" ,ion.s to pnlitie.s locoiin- itiirt ill !il it l)y ill Act. I) iidvo- ^-y liave •ihutinj^ <1 bo too peranco ivanced ' drunk- id some- no, but 10 Scott )!• thrco I bv-law There perancc .lie good niothiiiji d crying jlie most u- to tlio all who killd^^ of )UHidora- .lio Hcott ,H, while THE riUST nXiJAUEMHXT. 7:5 From, tin: Toronto (llohe. 'I'li(3iv was, of conrso, a jiossil>ility tiiat tlio >ittoin])t to oitviy the Soott Act Uy- linv ill Hamilton woulil lie succosHfiil, and that tho !:'.\v coiilil ')i> ]>ut into effectivo ojif'i-ation if it wore jidoptofl. Xeithrr of tho.so foutiiigeiieies, however, wa?4 at all l-roiiaMe, and therefore the movers in the llaniilton caniiiai^u wci-o thi'oii;^'hout re- ,L,'arde.(l by many of tlieir own friends as jiui'suing a mistaken course. Defeat at this early sta^e of tiie lo:al 0[)tiou crusade coeld r.ot fail to have a liad eilect, and the chances of defeat in flumiltoii wer(> VPi'y much greater than in many other municinali- ties. It was not necessary to run any such risk as tliat which was inciirred tluis voluntarily and, as the result sho'.v^, somewiiat recklessly. The moral of the defeat in Hamilton is one that is not likely to be thrown away on the advocates of ju'ohi- bition. They liavo idready carrieu the Scott Act in several counties, and can nn- doubtedly carry it in many nu)re. Tf they wish to succeed they will do well to avoid cities as nnich as ])Ossii)lo for some iime to come, and concencrato their efforts on places where they are more likely to be able to get the act introduced in the first place, and put into .successful ot'cratiou afterwanl. Fro):! t...: f oroii'o Worly theoretical arguments, iiut b, ex])eiiinenl. Hence the latter are willing fo see the law tried, and the success or failure of the law will depend in a great measure on the place whei-eiu the experiment is made. The cities and towns will lie sure to te.rn out liadly ; the result of the trial in a count}- may be, on the whole, favourabl. . The friends of prohibition, tlun-efore, if they are wise, will remember that tiie law they i.ropose if< only on trial, that its efficiency to pioniote .sobriety has yet in a great measure to be proven, and that ac- cordingly its adoption should only be advocated in localities favonralde to (he ex- periment. From till' Loiuloti Fn ;; /'/v/.s-.v. After ,. . .m,>aign of unprecedenti'd duration, of bitter cunllici ami heartliu::. ing, the ."scott . ct haw been defeate.l in Hamilton by an ovorwhehuing majoriu. The '•iKrer oi;y was .selected out of all those in Ontario in v. Inch to test the condition of ♦',J ul)iie ini'id on this tjuescion, and the n-ply has been more di'citied in Us characti r than even the luosi sanguine lovers of rational freedom eoiiid iiave an ticipated. From tin: Sf. JLir^ 'l te!!'peiance men will not be at all gratilied to kno.v that the voice of tli peoole exerci.sing the frai hiso is so decidedly against tlion;. Th(( vote ttood, l.tiGJ for, and 2,^:19 against, which gives a majority of 1,1511 against. This was tlie largest vote ever j)ollod in llamilton, and can, therefore, be taken a.s a pretty fair test of the feeling of the electors of Hamilton concerning this perini.-,?!ivo bill. Tliis result .shows that ]nn)liati- fally .set aside. Its merit or liomerit is iuluuent, ami intelligent men will look to the Act itself, anu tr, tlio jtrinciplc^: whicii it involves, for its justitioation or con- "leinuation. l*ut t)iere its n moral in this defeat vliich may le jiointcil without a (iiseussioii of tho})rin iples involved which dcst rves the atter.tion of iiruhiliitionists, and whiu'i is to be found ii\ tiie utter hopele.ssness of their cause. There is no deny- ing the fait that there is a great de;:! of evil accruing to the country I'roni the use of intoxicating iii|nors, and .any et'.'ort thi't would be successful it; h'ssiMiing the evil must, of course, be regard.-d as a blessing. It is evident that tiiese attempts at prohibition are failures, that the country is not ready for them, and that if ever sucli a law is to be adopted in ( 'aiiadu there must be a great radical change in imblic oj.iuion. L'nder these circuri.stances it will readily appear that ell'orts to schoct the people to refrain from indulgence woulu be followed by Ijotter results, and be far more likelv to stiike at the root of the evil of i)itemperance. J'roin the SI. Jolm, X.]> , Sun. 'I'lie eyi< of the friends and opjionents of the Scott Act have been fixed on the (Huitroveisi- which lias iieen in progress in llanuUoii for the last three months or m>.)re, preliminary to subiidtting tlie tiuestion to the vote of the electors. The Haniiltor: papers for weeks j)ast have Vjcen tilled with editorials, letters, reports of sjieeches. etc., bearing on the question. IJoth parties appear to have been thoroughly organized. Tlie I'rieiuis of the Act established a paper called the Scott Ad JlcraU, for the s]ipciai ])iirpose of inlluencing the vote, the jiaper being editetl by Professor Foster and distributed (jratiti from house to hou.se. Public meetings have been held nightly, with Professor Foster as the princijjal speaker on the side of the Act, and Ml'. Iv King Dodds in opposition. There were many other speakers on both sides who acipiitted themselves well, but the " champions,"" so to speak, were the gentle- men named. Each side liad its committee rooms, its secretary, and its crowd of workers, and both parties have mairaged the debate ami th(! canvass in a good spirit, on the whole. As so much dependeil upon the decision of so im[)ortant a place as ilanulton, it is altogether probable that friends and opponents of the Act in other parts of Can.ada have assisti'd their resiiective sides in the campaign. At all events, the battle was fought out keeidy, vigorously and alily, and the Act, its merits und demei its, received the most thorough ventilation it li is had since it was enacted. Friiiii tht' Montrt'fif GUnelti', April Hth. The people of IL'.milton settled tlie ipiestion of the Scott Act, in so far as that citv is concerneil, in the most emphtitic manner. A majority of twelve hundrcvl iigainst the Act can oidy lie explained upon the ground that the ovetwhelming senti- ment of the city was against it. Tliat sentiment was, tis we know, largely shai-ed in by many of the most sincere and av-tive temperance men in the city. Jn the in- terests of icniperance itself, it 's a grouml for congcalnlation that tlie Act has been ilefeated. All experience has show n that, whatever mav lie the case in rural dis- tricts, ]Mohiliiti(in has ]irt)Vi;ii something worse than a failure in huge centres of i'opulalion. 'J.'hat is tli.^ testimony of the Ulobe'n commissioners, who have lately iieeii drinking villainous compounds, and revelling in the lowest slums in the cities of the State of ]\Iaine. It is certain that the peoples of llamiltein have not lacked for information to enable them to make up their minds. A prominent and earne.it in'ohibition worker. }>\v. Foster, took up his <)uarters in the citv, tmd, besidi's ad- dro.ss:ng meetings almost every evening, published a campaign temi)(>iance pajjer which was sent into every house. l]ut in spiti? of all, in a city whii h is remarkable for its morality, ami for the high character of its peii|.|e, the vote has been a tre- mendoi;s |u'otest against the attemjit to f(jist the Ac' upon tiie coieniuidty. We have no doubt that the fact that tin; vote w,is bv ballot had niueli 'o ilo with the THE FIUST L'M^.K.JJMLWT. (.> majority ohtiiiiieil by tlio iiiiti-Soott Act ji.uiy. Tin; jivuliibitioiiists have ii faculty of iii!i)orting iirgmiients int » the lUscussion of this <|uestiou which many jtcople who do not at all oitlicr approve or acce))t theni havo not the moral courage openly to i-csist. We rcmemher that when the Ihmkin Bill wos voted iu a westei-n town one of the iiieenti\e.s presented was, " Will yoa '.ote for Jesns or for Satan," l)rintod in largo letters ami stretched across the street. In that case thisdescrijition of appeal secured a niaiority for ])rouil)ition. Six mouths' exjjerience of it induced its warmest advocates to admit their mistake, and the decision was reveisod hy an al most uiiaiumoiis volt . in I.i..miUon the same tactics ap[)ear to ha\o been resortiid to. Daily meetings for pra\ti- for the success of the Act, for the hist six weeks, and a ct)ntiiuious ]U'ayer iiieetiHg dmin;' the hours uH iioiling for tlie Siiino object, were the means adopted to carry the imjjression that vuiin^; against the Act was voting against the Almighty. Those who adopted this method were, Jio doubt, sincere, but they will now have time to reflect iiiioii the consequences of its adop- tion in tiie light of the oveiwheliuijig defeat they have sustained. It is certainly not ealcnluted to ]iromu;e a reverence for n ligion or for the sacredness and etiicacy of jirayer. Whether the defeat of the Act in Hamilton will have any etl'ect upon the voting in the surrounding districts of Maltou and Wentworth, which ti'.kes place in a few days, it is im|iossible to .say. The conditions in tlie rural municipalities are entirely dillerent frum those in a large city, and wo should not l)e surpriscul to see the Act carried there. If it is, there will be a chance of testing its ellicacy in a tield v/here there will be a nnich more favourable chance of iloing so. Some of the iownshi|is in those counties have already had an experience of the Dunkin Act, and that experience in every ease led to a repeal of the Ai^t by common consent of all i)arties. There may be features iu the Scott Act Avhiclt will render it more effective, although wo have iicver been able to lUscover iu \\ hat they consist. In one respect there is a d';''reuce. The Dunkin Act could be repealed at any time by the submission of a i-ydaw fur that purpose, ".'lie Scott Act, onc« adopted, can- not be rejjealed for thre ; years. No Dunkin by-law in Canada ever stood the test of three years, and we doubt whether the experience under the Scott Act will be vei'V diirerent. From the //'.niiii/on i'^jittiii.t.or, April Uilh. We have not the slightest desire to exult over the advocates of the Scott Act. There are few thoughttul men who will assert to-day that the burying of that Act I y the electors of Hamilton was tiot for the bt^st interesLs of the city, of the country and of temperance. In view uf the great muteriat interests at stake, we canmtt but rejoice al the viny decisive majurity of the largest vote ever ]iolled in the city liy which tlie jiroposition to impo;^e upon free citizens a law re|)ugna?it to dl theii- in- stincts and traditions was set aside. But, widle the result was most satisfactory, there are many things iu the contest just clcsed — let us hope forever — t j which wo cannot look back without feelings akin to juiin. There never was any doiilit that maiiy — very many — of the supportei's of the Scott Act were hont^st, ctnscicutious men and women. It is not pleasant to condeiiui such ]inopIe, to refute the sophis- tries by which they are misled, artd t.> expose the extravagant theories of r.nstakeu ]ihilauthr(ipisls and well-meaning .seutimentalists. It is proper here to point out some of the nusre|iresentations by m hi of them have had experience in political campaigns, and aie skilled in calculating very closely the out- come of tdectiou day. They might have been niistiiken to the extent of a few hun- dred votes. But it is si.mply impossible that they could have dreamed for a moment that a majority of the people of ila.udltou were on their side. Vet up to the very eve of the election tln'v told their deluded followers that the canvass was most satis- ...ctory, and thitt all th.' signs indicated the Iriuiiiph of their cauM>. For the rank 76 TIIK h^COTT ACT. and lllo of tlio St'Ott Act votfrs and Wdvkers wi' liii\ ' ivsjuvt sind synipatliy. Of the loiidors wi- t^^\\ only liolievn that th(\v liavo liccu ;■; ''Ity of wilful doci'it. We regret that tlie eiinse of true t(Mniieriiiice has by tliis co-itest been l)i'o(i,i,'ht to .some extent into discredit. There are many who cannot dissoeiate that cause from the op]>ri'.ssive law with which mistaken men have souLjht tu ally it. Tem|jeranc(^ is no less a virtue, no less a dutv now than fornierlv, but it cannot be disguised liiat it h;is received serio\is discredit in the iiouse of its profcss'-d friends. Effort will be re- quired to rsstoro to mauv th*! conviction that ti'mjierance may bo taught ami ]irac- tised without danger of rc\()hilionary and anti-I'ritish sumiitnary legislation. We regret that the most sacred ri'ligions ol.iligations and ])rivileges li;iv(^ during this campaign been dragged in the mire. The Saviour of men taught his disciples when they prayed to enter into their closets and jirav in secret. None but the riljald scotfei- will mock at th(^ well-meaning ladies who have so widely aihcrlised their prayers for the success of the Scott Act ; but many will come to the conclusion either that Divine wisdom frowns upon their cause or that the ])etitions of good people arc; unheard and nnlnedi'd in the couils of heaven. Tro- mote t!ie public welfare. mg : From till' Ildinilluu Speclalor, Ajnil l.'/tJi. As the time f(n- the closing of the poll (five o'clock p.m., April iritii) came near the excitement grew in intensity, and every polling place was surrounded iiy an eager crowd ot representatives of both parties, anviously waiting for news of the result of the vote. ]\les.sengers were in attendance at everj' polling yY.wi'. from the .*\/;''c/r contest is over we can agreo to di.sagree. You have shown the rii'ott Act people they were nustakeu in their ideas, and by your vote of to-day have I'elegated these men liack tu the )iosltioii thev deserve to occupy. (Cheei-s.) The doom of the Rcott Act is sealed afier to- day, and the people of Hamilton deserve double credit for the work they have,- done. The result is worthy of the ambitious city of Ontario, and of the inttdligence and intellect of this peo])Ie." ((Jheer.H.) ^Ir. A. G. Hodge, president of the Licensed Victuallers' association of Toronto, congratidated the citizens of Hanulton on the day's work. Air. It. Kennedy, ot tlie Tinun, said he was delighted with th<' day's work. It showed what a united people could do. i.\ir. McCulloch, of the ,'k place on Friday, 2"Jnd April last, and, ari was generally anticijiated, it was rejected by a heavy majority. Below we give the vote by nninicii>alities. It will be seen that in all except two there was a majority against the Act : — Jlajority. For. .^gainst. For. Agst. Ancaster .'HU) '264 ;j(; — Barton 105 25!) — 64 Beverly 186 295 — 109 Binbn,..k 129 107 12 - Dumlas 97 351 — 2G2 Kast Flam 199 211 — 18 West " 206 280 — 74 Glanford 150 157 — 7 Saltlieet — — — 64 Wttterdown 39 71 - 32 48 660 78 THE SCOTT ACT. After tlie closf i)f (lio polls in Piiiuliis a lai'go I'l-owd soon collectt'd in (ru. , of the post otiioe bnililini;', in \vliicli were the eentnil connnittee icionis of tht; Anti- Scott Act Association. I)i a .short time it was annonnred that Dnndas had declared a;jainst the act bv a majority of 202. Ne.\t came VVatordo.vn with ,'j2 the same way, then West Flanihoro', Ivist Flamhoro', Ancaster, liarton and Sajtlleet in snccession, and tlie rejioits left no room for douliting that the Scott Act had liecn defeated. The newh was teiegrai»hed to Hamilton and the JS.l;") train on the street railway brought out ii special car containing K. King Dodds, .). AI. LottrUlge, D. !McCnlloch and a number of other gentlemen to share ir. the r<'ioicings. They wei'O met at the station by Mayor W'ardell, Jv. T. Wilson, dohn Bertram, II. 0. Gwyn, W. Casey and other leading citizens, the band of the 77tl) Battalion also l)eing in f.ttendance, supplying choice music for the occasion. The visitors were escorted to the c(Mitral committee rooms, where congratulatcM'v speeches wimc delivered liv 11. T. Wilson, E. King Dodds, Mayor Wardell, D. ^McCuHoch, W. G. Jleid, T. J. Bell and W. Larey, after which the band played " God Have tiie Queen," and the proceedings, which throughout liad been very enthusiastic, though in no way offen- sive, were brougiit to a close. Tlie iramilton contingent took ti-ain for home about ten o'clock and reached the city in g<)od time. Dniing the day the hotels throughout the county were ke]»t closed and wo have not heard of a single infraction of the law in this respect. The Scott Act committee in town show(Hl their bitterness by swearing a number of respectable electois, concern- ing the validity of whose votes there could be no (piestion. Following the e.Namjile set ii\ Hamilton, meetings were held in Dundas, AVaterdosvn, and otlun' j)laces. whei-e prayer.s were ottered up for the pass- of the Act. The ])rayers i)roved inetTectnal. Tliere was slow work at the })oll in Mountain ward, where Mr. Jlidler was deputy n^^.irning oliicer, during the forenoon. 11. K. Waddell, the returiiing officer for the county, was telegraphed to about noon, ami he immediately came U) town. After he had shown Mr. ilidler how the work ought to be done votes were recorded with satisfactory rapidity. The vote in Dundas was one of the largest ever jJoUed, reaching neai'ly r>00. A num named iMcCriuamoii, a former resident of Ancaster, came to that village a distance of over seventy miles to vote for the Scott Act. The oath was admiuistered to him, but before ae could get liis vote recorded he was seized with a jiaralytic stroke. The Scott Act people counted on a majority of over 300 in Ancaster township. On polling day an enthusiastic supporter of that side in Dundas claimed that in that township the vote would be G to 1 in their favour. They were very badly disappointed, as their total majority was only 36. The Scott-Acters exjiected 150 votes in Dundas. They stopped short at It". The petition for the submi.ssion of the Scott Act in Wentworth liad 1,773 signatures attached to it. Only a trifle over 1,500 votes were recorded in its favour. Put not your faith in petitioris. One reason alleged for the defeat of the Scott Act is that Jupiter and Saturn were in conjunction on the polling day. It will be in order to consult the jilanets in future before the date of polling day is fixed. Jm!, of Aiiti- Itucl 2 the ;ct in br^'U it.-. -ft e, D. wci-e wyii, iig in id to )v K. t. J. I the )flVii- for the not oe in eern- nifile iicos. oved idler ning le tx) wore I'gest nt of Scott rdetl jritv r o"f :heir 36. Tlie ares Put L"t is le in Entered aeconUny to An of farlUaaent, la the year on, tho.mml eujht hundred ar.l eiyhttj-one, hij CHARLES EDWAPwD CLARKE, Publisher, In the Ofiee 0/ the Minister 0/ Agriculture, at the city of On am,..