IMAGE EVALUATION TEST TARGET (MT-3) V .**% 11.25 |J0 ^^ ■■■ ^ ti& 12.0 ^Sciences Corporation 23 WEST MAIN STREIT WfBSTIR.N.Y. MSM (716)I72-4S03 ^^^ ^V V \ c\ I CIHM Microfiche Series (l\/lonographs) ICr/IH Collection de microfiches (monographles) Canadian Instituta for Historical Microraproductions / Institut Canadian da microraproductions historiquac ^ I Technical and Bibliographic Notti / Notts tachniquas «t bibliographiquet Th« tot The Institute has attempted to obtain the best original copy available for filming. Features of this copy which may be bibliographically unique, which may altar any of the images in the reproduction, or which may significantly change the usual method of filming, are checked below. 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Les cartas, planches, tablaeux. etc.. peuvent Atre filmte i dee taux da reduction diffArents. Lorsqus le document est trop grsnd pour «tre reproduit en un seul clich*. il est film« i portir de I'engle tupArieur gsuche, de geuche i droits, at de heut en bas. en prenent le nombre d'imeges nicsssaira. Las diagrammas suivants illustrant la mAthoda. 22X 1 2 3 4 5 6 — .-^ Miiiitfiriiifr^'-, •^f; i ?5%'t'>l' '■••«•■ ».;v ■ >^;^i.. •^dSi :m^^Z:^^ -S.iJiW-.^-jjj:; s T= :hj -b.; c ri Hon. ! J /^ ^.y. A BBOn i \\^llr ;)j- !• n ! I.. '' r. FHATF n\ Tiur 1 1 I i ft £tL •-J MARCH :i^' 'y^tf. &.33t!:^5^;;^grrjfc;:g,:,X^3;^';j- .v. ^/. ■K^i*';?^,;^^.,*?' rsas^i*-^.^ ■. i*t» «U*J' * . sipeech: OF IHI' Hon. J. J. C. ABBOTT I.KADKK OK Till-; SKNATI'! CI.OSINCJ THI. DEBATE ON TRADE RELATIONS MARCH- 15th, 1880 OK THK IIOX()FJ.\|?L|.:j. J. (J AHMOTT LEADER OF THE SENATE Hon. Mr, AHfJO'lT— I I,....,. „,...,, , -bid. has 1... i.t u"; "" '''"""' '"^ '" "-' -"* which h. iwj 0x1 :, : rr*;''' ■•'"^-•"^ -"-•"•'- into.., amount ,,I..o,U..„.o Ms.una.os ^ ;„: ^ , T ^""'"^'■'•- ''^J- w^.i^^i.iMo,.oai.tH,.uto.n. v!.;r;::;i;!:;;,i;;:'--'^«^» the pains an.l as 1 , . .i ■T^^"; '" ••^'"M>linu.n,in,. hi,.. ,.,,.„ It is not o^4,y wh n '";:'"r',''r '•'•"■•'^" '^ ^-^-- the JiouHo. what n,a, .i: i^.^;; L d'' ^ > '' ^-"""^ ^"^'--•<"■ appreciate the im .orfuKv „/,,"'''"'"'' *V "''P"'''*"' *''' ^^« on similar occuHons. ' ^^ ! '1 .'J''; ''''"i""'": ^"" ^'"'"-- -»-» o!^eha..ai... an., in .-o::!.; ^ • ,::;^; 7 : ^^'^^ ^-Tone on the Hnl.ject of tlu. ,lol,,te f .. n . . '''""" '" '"^''^■^' not know that i .hall om,;^^ ? I"'''^'"''^^'. ^hat I do mutter in isHuo. In elr do ,1 ■ '"T •'!'''''^' ••'■•■'^'''^' ''^ ^''« -. The .ubjecf has been diHoussed a no ^ ,' -'^ '*"'' '' '^^ <-e.7 point ha. l,oon taken a,.H fo lowed k"' "'"'""'' = <'offnizant of the details , f ,1. , "•.•/"''^^^^ '^P by men who are havo I. ir>!ill«'.l u|M.i, ...y hur.. iVummIV i.-.ii.o. to tl.. yAuy ni xhv rm.nt.y. an-l its |M.>ilinM, havo Ikh-u fully Hll^w.•ml. .a.li l.y a l«'»»<'n a.tuallv sm ."Xl.e't in ili.' matli-r n{.<.i. uliil."li.S am! tl.t- MtatistU.. wl.i.h l.a.vr U'i'U .,i-.oH>aiy l- ol.Hi.latc th.- ar-ununt - ut J.on, ^....tl.M.H.,,. I.av.. W.U i.xhan.tivHy .i""'"' '^'"« ' •";"/''^- mvM'lt >i. tlu" ,,..-iii.MH.ilKMnu'al.solul.'lyan.l ..iM|.iahfu-liy mial.!-- tn way OIK' wditl that i" now. ■ If inayl.fa.U.-l: Whv. tl.on. trouMr H... Iln....> will. a.ll^(•oarH,^ tlM.Hu!.staM■ ^"*'"' '''""'•'' "' ' ,lo wl.h to s.af. in a ro.m.i-t.-.i ton... my i-Ua ofth. lim' po.Mtion oftl,i<<-ountrv.ofthc naluiv ot ii-' I'-licy, ot Hk' ol.joct.oi.s to it, .j„.l ,.n!.f ntll.T sul.io.-ls whirl, havi- I'tTi. .Imwi. ua.N'r dHCUHs.oi,, involvinii M.,m- rxpan.ioh nftl.t- p-uvi.'U- ..! ihr noticv o\ iny ho,,. tVifiid tioni MidlaiKl. , • i Now as to inv hou. trioii.lV .ohU-i.tioM, aa.l hi> ivasoiis tor it, 1 do not think thrn.ran W n.nH. .louht of tlu-ir MMindiirs.. Thoir Hno.loal.t whatovrr. in n,v tuind ai Ml cvonts, that wc- may lar-oly ,.x,mi.lo..r ,;aa.. will, thf .oai.tiifs ho roh-rs to, a.wUor th.^ ivlm,,,; ahno-t c.v."•vtl.:..-^'o p.o,iuc'o is K,nu'lhin,ir whi.i. they iv.pmv. and win. I. tlu-V do not produce. Alniont ovo.y.hin- they pnnlace .h HOM,.-thin-\vhi.h we .eMuiie. and whnh we do not prodme. Wo do ,„. pioduee sn^rar, ...tlee. .nhl.er, the iine w Is of Ikazil, nee, and the nuinevous other produetionsof tn-pieal eountnes. We have not tho advantage that the rn.te.l Slate^ possess, in havn,^' almost ,„ unlimited variety of elimate. We know that the eountnes t.» whieh my hon.f.iond's notiee lelates. pro.lnee ulmost sponta.e.M.sly ,n„„v ..f the riehest produetions of the worl-l , yet wo .am send to them itt all ev.-nts. notwithstarulinir what my hon. friend t.om Y..rk' ^aid this afternoon, our tlonr. our meal, our lumher, our hsh, our eoal our mauufaeturos of iron, cott..n, w..ol an.l woo,l; and we c.an receive in return their su.i^ar, eotlee. rhe, fruits an.l other tropiea! pro.luets, whi.-h ihoseeouidries furnish in ahun-lan.e. It these do not form a f..un.hition for a v: uahle tra.le I .to not know what „.,...l,l ..oMstitute it. it is .v,-tai.dy much better than .lovotin^^ our onerKies to ( uUivatiui; a trade with people who pr.xluee ma.niy (he same things as ourselves, with a larger population, larger eapital, y f)t' til.' a JH'lHOIl ami tht' IIUIll - t't' 1 «ulll.— . iiiialili' til 1 ivply nit it, my iiiiiilv "• ;tli, I'UI I ions to it, i-<((i-!»i'iii, my li'»ii. iH tor it, 1 >. Thoiv iiy larii;i'ly i> i('iiM)ii ; luiiv, un«i iriKliici) in ■. We ....inion that .1 n.iv l.«. iM-,..a^,..| almo,( iM.I.»i„,t,.|y Ami I a-.ir wilh n.y h-m. fn.m.l fn.m IVm.v lvKv;.rl |.i;„„| i„ fhin| ,.rrivo,i at. .Ii>cn,na:.'. .1 I ihinlv almn.i ..voiy i-lri, whirl, fl,.- h..„. .^u,,,,!,.,,,,,,, tVom Mi-llaiHl .„(,.,■' •.•uihmI, as to tho po.>!l.il,ty m ij,,. s.n-crs.s „f hj, propos..,| Hlorf to <• "'"I "ur tiMvi.u;,, i.vui-. !|,. wn„M .,ni l.av.. ^t.atarrs 1....,,.,... !,», thoauhl ^ailinKVc-d.wrr.. I..,!i..,. I„ ,|„„ ,,„,„,, , ,|„„ui,,,,„„ 1,'i'ml.MnMi Com llaliti.x h:..! Kom- miHU.-,,.., »;„■ ...sHu.li,..^ >tfamr,v ,M- Tor ahMaiain- from a.vMslii.- ihrm-JMit in hj, i,|,.-i that ^a...n^•v...>,.U«,•v valnahh- in il... n.l'ivation ..ni.is ,,,,.1,. ■,. '"""'- ••'l'-'*' '' '""•'•y'"!^' lH-;.vy .o,,]. at a l-.., n„i ,h,n iIm- mo.v >vvi(l ,,n.| mop' oxpniMv.. .iramcMx. I{,„ ,„v hon. trieii.i ,!!>. anv.i ''"•.V pi I at ions ot tho ho,.. -,.„il(.,„an IVom .Mi-Hai,,! i„ (.^,.,v otV,,., iv.sp.Tlal>a, whil,., appaicntly, iall.,.,Jii.,ui<'aiiv,,.ul.,-i/.in..M.vl,un fnoh.U a.-tioi, an.i . n„,.|„,,inns, Th.- ol-K.-i'lon which "mv Im,,' '"'•'"I •'•n,n Vo.k look, I,, ,!„. i||„.|,,,tion oMho pusHhlr' ti-..h. wh.cl. na h,.n ,,i.,„| ,•,,„„ Mi.llamI miopi^..!. w;,s un,.M-t„„alc tor his ih,.o,y, lo a .ctaiii ckIvi.i, inasmuch as the ho,, ..vnij..- '"■•'" 'fon. Vo,k appca,c.| to .IcinonM.atc, with co„si.l,.,ahh. clh'cl on my miml. Ilct ,nost ol tl... pa.ti.-ulaf a.lich-s f„ whirl, ""■ '"'"• -'<'""'••"••"> f M.'ilan.l n.kMTci wore no. snitahio urtni.-s for shipment lo ,|,, W-m !„.Ji..s in cnpcfiii..,, with the I M.tcl Siatcv |5ut thou^rh I hope that in some rcspcds tl... hon -ontlrman from York uas not alto../..!|„.r correct— that is -o snv iii respect ,.:■ flo,u-I was please,! to nn,| ,|,;„ |.i, ,„.„,„„ „„. ,,,;,;,.:, them nns.Mtahie. wen- mainly l,a,e,| on the very striking,' lae, ,|uu most ot those articles, whieh are amon^jr ,l„. leading, pro.hi.tions of this count, y, hriiii, hiKher jn-ices here than in the Cniicl States I thonKht that .lom.;ns.,M.ion .'vi.cmely apposite to another branch o this .|,^..nssl..n. 1 mention now to .serve iiH ,mrpose there an.i the,-eto,-e neeo not tvie, to it on a tiitiuc o.-casion-thal my hr.n lilt fVifiid troiu Yw I, ill. |.|.nliilly hiitiii^lif oiii the iiii|)')i liint tact, f^ tlio«t' u^riciiliiiiiil |ii'(n|ii(ts wliii !, \\i> iiH' hiiiil Ki bf Miciiliiiuj: Hi Hiu'h low rtitt'H. )(n iuhmI a uiiukot houiIi oI UH. lu tiiallv find !j lHtt»-r fiiinki'l u\ Iimiui'. tliiiri (li»>y vvnild in ihc Ml.lomdo wliiidi my lion. I'l iciid liom New Wcstinlnsici ('wli.im | ii';,'irt not to set- in lii> pliic.-) ixpctt* to timl in tliiii coiiniry when luH idfiil inillfiiiiiiii ari'iv«'>4 — wlu-i tlic liTiilorial priri'-ipU- which th« United SiHit's liuvf adopifd in ntt r» nci- to this coMiiut'nt, thull \n< fxti'iidi'd in its conuucniiil -en-*- «)vri' ild> pail o( ii | wa.t vjry j,'Iiul to Icain liial vvt do not nMpiirt' llii>« Kldorudo tor ilioscailicli'K; that Wf do n >l it'(|niri; to have our way opi'ind to our iiritrldioiH to own till! Miriih o| IIS to find a uiarkrl I'of sui h piodiuf , thai our iiiarUft is a hftliT iiiarUot ; that our own |witi's, accord iiit; to tho hoii ;4cnilctiian t'rorii York. Cor traders in ihe Wist ln(li(-^. Ilul I liave no doiihl whatever that lar;;e (pianiiti«#' ol our products (an In' exported llici-c, can It mad*- ailieles of I'Xehaiiiceli. I Ween lis and the West India Island- and Brazil ; and I trust that at no distant dale the a-piraiiiiiis ot'my hon. friend from Midland in that respect will l>e rciiii/cd. This liranrh of the mat icr.s under discii-^sion i- really. |>roperly -pcakiiiLi; the oliji-,;! o| my hon. friend's notice, and there, prohahly. thidi--(u»-ion. if ! hat notice would have teianiiiate,i.'f his not ic4>. for that I do not think he did, luit .a little hcvoml the Hpiiit of his notice, in calling; attention laljic.' to certain deductions of his own than to the farts whi" h he stated ; hut a liltl e on h(» ih of those irioiii, Is. The hon. gi-ntleman reterreii to the immense eMciil of our expenditure diirini; the years of (!onfedeiation. He admitted that liiis expenditure had a|)parenlly hce.i. on the whole. Usefully made; that we had, a.s uii intermediate result, a stM-ieH of intci|ir)vincial <'ommnnication.s, in the shape of ciinals, railwavs, and puhlic works ol'.all kinds, that justitied a lar^c expenditure ; hut my hon. fneud wont lui to say that we ouirhi to have somethimr in retuin tin- this expenditure, to expect soim' fruition for all this out- '•^•'•'•"f "'<■ N.-«tin„al Po|i,v . „„| :,• f. ' ' '" I'^.-'-r... u.>t what. •f>is Dominion sin.v IS7. •.„ V I n ' Z f"»''oint nearly as lii:rh a^ it has ever attained since — it ih not the policy of the (loccrnincni lu'twren 187;5 an to discu.-s. That policy was linall/ condemned and discarded l>y the people (if this country hy an o\ erwliclminu- majority in IS7H, It is not that policy for whicli wt' are responsihle — ills that which is popularly called the National Policy. That is the policy which the hon. -entleman linds faidt w ith. tor which lion, nenth-men .opposite hold us lespunsible, and which ilicy>ay is ruining- the connti'y. Now. let us apply the te>t which the hon. ^'entleman Ironi Ottawa has ai)plicd, which has been reitei'atcd as the (lamnin.ij: fact a^'ainsl us rhpiui^hout the whole country, and which is, in fact, the vheial tir bafanie of his party. It istiaie that tVoin 1>^.74 to 1878, inclusive, the trade o\' the country diil diminish — it did t^^ d'.wn. In 1871 it was $217,,i)l)(l in round numhers. Jn 1878 it was $172.(MI(I.IH)(>— • that is, it diminished 8ir),00i),000 durin,-; the rr., liefore our pulicy had de.velopeil itself, hefo/e the National IVdicy could have\ny etfect n)io!i tiadc in any way, it had fallen to $ir);;.t)00,Ol)»), or SU 1,01(0,(100 less than when the Ma"ckeii/ie (iovernment assumed power. That 1 merely nictation hy the way. That is not a part of my ar^nimcnt, hut 1 mention the fact, hecause hon. gentlemen opjiosite ai-e fond of beginning at 1874 in (puitinii; statistics to show that trade has diminished under out'' policy. I refuse to ansume any responsihility for their Administra- iMW. I begin with ours, at the ])eriod of 187i>, which .1 have now arrived at, and 1 lind that then, which was (he time when the National Policy came in foice, the aggregate ti-ade ot this country was 815:1,455,000, That was the total trade of this country when this much-abused policy came into operation, Fmjn that moment the aii'Ltreirate trade of the Dominion increased. In 188;} it reachetl its maxinuim, the gi-eatest amount it has ever reached in the history of this country. It increased from $15;;,()00,000, in 1H7.\ to $2:50,- 000,000, in 188;j. an increase of about $77,000,000 in these four yours, ll diminished niUv that, in one yeai-, t<>. S-i07,oOU,()(!0, and it has remained within live or si.v millions of dollars of that Bumdown I \w (lid not trial t'oi" It'll M ill lw7y or other policy, ;j:1i UN it \v.\ti Hill Id'tWlCll wliii'li I pro- iiiil (liscivrded ority ill 1^7.^. Ili.it vvliicli is cy whirli llir ini'ii opposite imtr>-. Now, I Otlawii has ct a,!.;;ainsl ii> tho I'ht'val di' 7S. ill(■l^l^-iv»^ . In lS7t ii 172,(1(1(1.00(1— ; dl' my lion, vclopt'il itst'H'. tiado in any han when the I}- mention by ntion the fact, v^ at 1H74 in 1(1 iiniler our' r Adniinistra- \ 1 have, now me when the E this country ooiintry when that niomcul SS:{ it reached in the histoiy 87.\ to 82:u).- in these tour !0(l,000, aiu! it hat sum down to l!ie |,;,>i year. w\u-n it ji->n I rton luui hetWfeii the ai'i.'-it'.r.,|., .,.,,,1,. ,.r ,i. S.i il,.,t .1. . i;.v ' I'ol; th.. '•■\ e.'inie into tiuci. mi..! iI.. .... ' • < I I V, I \ ii\ f.; :l«''(r! (MCMt.. » f.i,l,. . A' » 1. : nil' (late ton xcyr.s afterwards \i;j,, S'lv mid (i,, I • > t * I ...... . iii<'-. a« lh<' li'st ,ii 1 1... ,-.,i.. . ..I'.i trade of (he .'mint ry iiirin- tln.>.. i..,. eir''iiinl')ci!(i()ii.'ili.)iii tl.,.i,. i(, 'I'l. 1 > f 1 > I w 1 1 1 1 f 1 . 1 1 . . .■ .'..... I.I .1. ...,i , . . , """""^'"^"i\c(i, MMvarea-nlain ; Ii.' . no., .„„,.,„ „„„i,.„,,,i,i„„, .Aeecnlin,-,,. the ■vain... ;r„nr import, and export.-, r trade in IsSs u-.... ft-.v ..,.,.<„.,. , .. »i ii wa-^in 1870. Then- is a m.siiiv.' f..n, positive statement th.'ii <.ii,. f,,,.. iiain-t till' • Ill' Xali Th Oh.'ll P, ilicc 101 (iniHim. fij-n res simw wiii.-h i^ f.,.. . lie pi.'iiii j)ro)).t,siii,,iis; (he ic III ill-Ill (,.> ^ ..( ; (I.I .. -1 1 ,. , . , , "■ iMii:.!! lie .n; ii--nei u -'^'<-.^l',v those (inures M.e as.'r.i.m I am con.en.lin-. , '■ ■ '"smoiiient. P.„t thore is ;, o,vm( ,h...,l ,iu> i... ..r. 7' statenn'ril .if li,,,, I .1 iitl.>i>, i-cfiKalionoCii than the one whid, 1 !,;., die valiU's ol'o'oocl.s iiave UuuuAx- C.K,,,, .vhic '!>|'>ite; tliei't' !< i.i.i,.i. tve ii-i'd. liiiiiiio- iJiis pe-iod The iiiM'Ccnl.i,!-.. ,.iM 1 Intshoen estimaled hy eompetent nie" i> ........i... . '">ii< l."» per .I'nt. on eximi-ts. and (U n,. i-^ to s;,y, ,|h. ,.i..,.,sc.s of ;.xp.,rts aiid imiM. calculation has heen ma-le-an.) <1,.„. n avorai,'e cent. (iri imi.in'iv ■ ii,.,t 1 I t( 111 ll'li ii.I. •cry important—l do not as.s..,i il,.,. Vi.. \'IM \' I . )l t 1 'V r()ITU»I'*'hi»iwt ..II i K.. ;Xpoil> and imports, hm thev nmii,reh..n,l ,n,..i ...■ ,i.. items —have laden in vahi. , 'cnt. ihes(j .•ah'iihiiioiK •11.,. .,. .,i.. i,. in. I f I' ' iniiiMi't ■ - • . ■ • ^ » II V 1 111 1 M /I I '. export- .J") per ei'iit., impo, is (j-t por a perfeelly eoniinifiil .'vii..i-i an .see no reason why we shonlii ilii„i.- ,), ,;,.,. liont them; they may fiiirlv h,. > "Mil- ill !^( ).'! •■' ^ ■"',; iin^i ,uvi consideiiiil 111 I,.. ,.,.i;.,i.i.. mi ive heen studh'd in another place; they have h..,.„ ivc n.it heen -lenied to my kn.>wledLre. " Ihn lo ....i..., ve take half thi 'Xceed in vo]in s pereenta.iiv, (he a^ir/^re-'ale imiwris ..f i.v>l< me those of iSTJ hvaiSoimnmi ., . ..,v.y "" di.M'iissfil. aid ! sure • .Mippo.m. (^ ...... I I 1,1 If. .,,1,1 1 10 tliOHc of 1^7!) |,v i,|„„ii $t:i llin^-slrikiiiy cil dions of ti ill v.-iinc liii'i ,oi( I III' ti:.niiis will (■ nil. i I'I'M Til M»<'I»,«H»(I. WV liMvcal.va.ly IukI Uiirc> iD^liow towhal oxU'iit tliisd two III' fl'll-JlSC • ' lion. u:ciiil,'iii!»ii iVom Kciiiicl 111 I ST ai' was ItT.noo.t/tMl II, »• (iHMiilily of Miixnv ini|i()!n.ii '" •'" <';ii'li.T .laff iliaii llial, hiil it 111 iioi (•(•I'laiii of ilir i|;.if. Ii may "111- (i|scii-.-.i(i'i :i] •Jl'l.()(MI.(l(H)|l,s — TI. is witliiii iln- jn-i iod hi wliicji llllpoi'lalioii of >ii._r;,r ;,, isss wtis ill I' (osay. I'liilv iwicT ami on .>0 per ci'iH iiiailvai t'-lia Hill f (jiiaiilily H's <'o>t S').500.iHMI, while (lie 2l' I 'lllic jiiTMnii-, poiiod , v.. I tli,.;i7,()i)i),(HI0 Thai liDd.lllKI M.-. '•osf 8r).7r»(i,tM)(>. a McciT'ast' in- ai|_r;,p of j,-,() ri'iit. per cent. ukI siiifar is not a sniiill in in. iii'N. Mit. r()Wi;i{-j} etwccn what voars? I Hon. .MK.AHBO'i'r— i have ]; 'Mil I am ?ioi hii,"ouf (I li'ifii'i (hat the fir.si iliseii,s-,iii^ ami tl rS ainl 18,^7 on iny nm^l I noios. K' lir-l dali' at this inonient ; ! can li [u'l-iod i.^ Wldiiii II, ,> |„.,.i,„l we liave H> last voiir is (he he niv lion. noca I'l'luni.--. 'l'Iu!!'o aiv other dislii! I Olio foi' whic! 1 wo lia\<' aii\' tl iiiii"' ic ainoiiiiis of foiviii'i) trade, hut thev all <«•.) t iioiils in the c(jiiij)ariM'/i oi' (liclinii whu'h oxisK hotwoeii the f o MK-rease llii' eontia- iiiade aliout if. I' Vm'oiio Ihint;. lei i let and liie asserii on-- wliieh are niado ill the iew words [ Kiid on i he A.ldrcss— that lar^-ely lakiii;,f the place of i iM' ((>fer Mii-ain to ihe sfjiteinenl 1 law tnaloi'ial is tl naniitaetiirod nialeriai in importations to ii-^ country ; that instead of »;{5,(iui),(ii)t) worth ot which We iiiipoi'led la>t year. i| law niaterialrt iiiiltortod ill ISM I have not Lho I leie were only Sii.(IOI»,U(l(> worii that the\ wen- less than in IS74. J^, ■^\] ^.y JO li,u'iire>tl.r 18T!I, hut it is nrohablc tioi eiit^ I-'', wlueh al an of iiianiil'aciiii'eil o(»od.- law material Jieriod wore composed alnxtst our iiuporta- entirel vNi're. (Iiii'ini'' il to the extent Ol volume .f internal trade in nianufactun $;{5,0()(l.l)i)(», which ast year, composed of I'epi'osi'uts a that 1 a oods within the eounti- must am ontii'ely ineompeten; to calciilato. hut wlii(d com lu.K 1 ev^'rvone toL'other, IS ot enormous ma,^nitude. These tact.s, taken com 10 me conclusively to dispose of the pr < (position t^hai our foreion tra-le is lallin- off under the Xational Policv. I 10 not see how, in the t let again an.! «>y it is diniinishii of I hose simple tiyures, anv one can riso- ig, unloHti ho is prepared lo say thal^ "Ill- tnulv IN. Ill t" Nay dial ov '>- i^'iioiajil. of Mis arc fVaii.li '■ly mail \v 11 '••'" <'"ii'-(>r(i,.rH: unit..,., ] 1" Is |i)i|,,vv II' I- '■■^I'lilc Illl'-C t\,J '■\ofyil.iiii..- w|ii,.|, i„,| '"^ "I' llfallairs <.f|, ["■••[lan-d (lies I I K'al.V'. its a.'ii Is l"<'ll|-i.>|,> i I .l,v y ia\c "' |'l<'s('||(l.(i '»li\'IOU> ;,,|.| roil i>> aiiv as.scii I'liy III' ciiint !::"■. '■'■'^''"' '■""" Quiiut^ siufc.,i ni •■''""" 'l'«' ^'afi„„al |>n| "■■•I'lt'i tliat if i('\-~( '•■" it \\n- '■■" ^\.'is i.ordrdv (,•„, tor (I was nut ( •^'"l IraiiUNJ t(, I I'lKH '"' |"ii |.us(. „r im, "■^ 'liivrt „|,j,.,., . j, casuii.' 'ix'wui'd I.) (I, tl Was ;(| ''\ '"I ami [)| •""■''"l'"''-:, '[M >>lt'r forcij :i''C(l (.11 1 1,,, ,«^( :ii iii'lii<.|'l(;, aiiil \v,.>|jall I,.. ;,|,|,, t ^ '>rl il,,.,, d'i.-s, ((, devol •mI; <1 and 'P our o\v„ i|,|,.j. ■y was I.) i;,^| lal li;i, !'"(i incidental to d ^'*'i'y Ion "' incrca-iiiu. of T \\i.d 1 as '' 'fiiiucdiat(. lut'l ''!• tiiir own iii.iiis- iisr woi since \\'^, ''"'inndiicdired n-oodstl "'■^f .yrcal o| '';ivc liccnahl, our (orcii-ii (,,.|,|, V if- dilvct ;|<'cts fo II Ollf ^^''''•y 'liiv. If lat . Tic lake II was only indirect linic lia ■ not I 'CCIl so of alisoliit In oIHV tei <>!"• iiidiis(n„l..siali||s| '■""iinous -inanliii, I' ]>ov(.>iiv a '■'•n''K( In nil Alhcrfi 'id disfi-(.; ' yi'.'iTs sii "iH'nis arc fun iiiii Off ;ay lor it. Tl ■^e of its beitiir cli <'eii(s a pound, '■emomhor well wl were almost widj,utt I iH'.se Were the days wl «aj>; we have read len (^m- ""•'H'«l out 600 ham vided for, and wit I ^<> it wan, ac t'armo lOii one faciory in ^] '••^ on the .tro,.t-GOO tamil "III without homes. I "J'ti'-'ul was closed, and mv h 'lout a I'oof t(j e »verthera. .Soil lew wer«! left unpr<;- I'h; they took tl '/"•tWend from Albei'ta has d was evorywhero '?. «^n them tor a ihat OH- products to th 10 escribed, with tl 10 country «tore.s and had .1 I . H dmtmyhon. friend the mnov .Senator from Ottawa d ''"li^'iage 'scribed night in such vi.q irous 12 1I(.\. Mr. I'OWKli— IKar hoar. Hon, Mk. AlUJOT'l'— My lion. tViciKl smiles. lln\. Mr. I'oWKJi — Kxrii-io m.', 1 wa.s ou'loi'sing tin- lion. i;i'ii- lU'inaii's opiuioii that the lioii. mcmlKM- tVoiii Ottawa de.soril'iKl Uu' oomlition ot'atVaiis in \'ii;i>foiis langua^o. Hon. Mn. AHHOTT— My hoii. iVicnd- laii,!,Mia;j:i', howovii- viforou-i, coiiiil Miiici'lv (ltj Jiisticc to tlio wiclchcil cnnilitiou oi the work ill!;- flii.s.ses. It (Iocs not rcijuiit' a man to he as old iis I am to I'ccolJt-ct iho tiuivcrsfd distress which ])e.'va'ry luemher of the House must remeinlicr it Tl lis policy wa^ then devised for the jiiirposeol' remedying those ovils. which, as my lion, friend fi^un Aeadie said, the (Joverument of that day professed themsidvestolpeahsohitely inc.'ij'.'ihle of remedying, 'I'hey declai'ed thalithey were helj)less — lliat they were powerless to provide any measure of ndief; and this remedy whieh. as my hon. friend from York has stated, ha 1 heeii then in the minds of many men for years, was finally adopted. I think my lion, frien.i from Halifax did not do justice to the lion, membei' IVoiu Quintt', when he deseiihed hi.s position in speaking of the ol>ie(^t of the Nati(mal Policy Hon. Mr. POWMK — I (pioted the resolution whi(di the hon. member introduced in this Hou>e. Hon. Mr. ABBOTT— >[y hon. friend did ; but 1 am speaking now of tiie statement which the hon. member from Quinfd made a's to the objects with whit h the Natioiuil Policy was devi.sed, Hr was inclined to attribute to l»im— his language ttiiidod in that direc- litiii— the admission thai we did not want any foreign trade (I think that was the ex))ression), that we only wanted internal trade. That statement only divei-ged so far frotn the line of accui'acy that the increase of our foreign trade was not the direct object we had in view. It was regarded as an incidental result of the policy we wore advocating. \ agree with the hon. member from t^uint^ thai ht lioii. g(Mi- LCi-, liDWOvcr conflitidii ol . (ilil as I am s coiuitry in it iij) 1(t tin cM'oial policy od foi' tht'in- , ami ovt'iv cy was then 1. as my lion. iiv iiroti'ssoii Ih'V (loclai'i'il y)i'<) villi' any lid rn)m Yoi'k )r yoai's. was X tliil not ill) li.'sc'iiltofl his cy U'h the ni'ii. am spoaliinir lintd mado as devised. Mr in that diroi- jign trade (1 ntei'nal trade, iccuracy that uljjeet we had he policy we n t^uintd that 13 o.n- ohjeet was to la.ild ,.p our own industru-s. ... erdar^e our ." ornal rade, and, a. .neideatal and s„pp,i.n.en,a hat, t.^nlar" etdtd ? J ha, ,,s the qnes.K.n ,h,t, this (iov.M„ment ha.s „> answer ■ hat .what those who advoeate this poliey have to answer. Ila J e^^eets whn . the National iNdiey was devised to at.a.n .! oal, .ed Jlas u i,..en saeeessf,,! i„ al.ainin,^ tho.e resnlts^ JIas it developed international and ...lu-r internal trade'/ (las i, ,, .1 v Hntapi.,„.ownindustrii.s7 In this v.ry hook ,o whi-h U>a^v "^"•'r''T/'r'^; ''-•''• -••-Muin.ion Iri.nM, and oiher Jn • Wh.utV mi""',"*' """>•-'<•'"-.' on all those poinu Xa umai Pohey ? That ,,,. peopl. are prosperous; U.a, ma - iaeturesare .noreasin.; that every man who la.ts ; da^ s w"k -n^etu, and^et a .rood day's wa^es to. it. The.. L.. t e ohjeets we sought to attain l.y the National Poliev, and I .... we have attained them, and in a larg..,. .n^asure than' was antinpated ;> any man who, ,n 1S7!.. advocated the National Polii-y An, the r.g..re. will p,.ove it. [ suppose my hon. i'nend will „;„ .ask me . prove that the manufacturers have prospered. I have not go, any ^tatistics of hat; J only know that my hon. i'nend has a hi'h opinion 01 th..,r prosperity, because he attrihuted the enormo'^.s increase m the insurance hu.sincss of the i-ountry u> iUc insurances on the pa aces and row. of houses huilt hy the nianulactu"" Huppcse It did not occur to my hon. f,iend that if those manufaci ure, h huilt enormous palaces and g..eat row. of housen. at all events tho-e houses must he occupied-that we must have got the population to III them, and they must have the money to pay rent for them \i new houses have been erected to ,such an extent as to swell the amount of hre insurance by million,sit wa.s because the people were mcreasing and were there to occupy them. At all event , 1 ukiv conclude that my hon. friend does not want me to go into s atisti^s to prove that the manufacturers have been successful. Hon. Mr. POWRR-Those who survived ? Hon. Mr. ABHOTT-l shall therefore devote myself mainly to prove t^hat the remainder of the population has been nucces.ful -that the success has not been confined to the numutacturer. 14 but. as tliONO who iulvocaltil the Xiitiorial Policy pi-oplu'sioii it woiiM rlii>iiiil(' measiuv to the rtnploy^H OH well a.s ((I the «'iiij)loyoi'8 — that it hn-> tmilt up our taitn to jiiovii this is to !)*.• louiid in the piil'lic dofumenti^ from which I have already quoted. The wealth accpiired by the peo])le, as ^hown liy their saviniijs and investments, is at least as ;;reat as the fertil",' imaii'inatioa of my hon. friend leads him to be- lieve, has been the ayji^ret?ation of wealth nmon^ the manufaeturei«. I doubt veiy much H" the tl/j;ii res which have entered into my lion, friend's mind as '■a n>easuro of the wealth of the manu- faeturers, ajjpi'oaeh the figures which show the saving.s and the invostmonts of the lower classes, if I inaj- be permitted to U80 such words in deseribinii; any portion of the people in this eounti'y, who are all free, and whom we do not reco^^nize as capable of being gi-aded, or properly characterized by any sach description. To establish this point I nhall trotible the House with statistics. many of which they have already Iieard reao to them, but I hope they will bear with me. It is that 1 nuiy give an intelligent I'cason for the faith that is in nie. I would like to be allowed to set (mt those j-easons ; it will be then for the Jlouse, and for the country also, if it ever hears of our speeches, which is doubtful, to judge wlielher theie is good reason for the t'aith that is in moon these subjects. I think the savings lianks constitute a fair test of the wealth of tlie middle and lower classes of the people — the fai-mers, the mechanics and others. It is they who invest in that pai ticular way, and not the wealthy manufactui"ers, who, as my hon. friend from Halifax observed, and believes no doubt, invest theii' money chiefly in palatial residences and rows of houses and manufacturing establishments. Hon. Mr. POAVER — I did not refer to rows of houses ; I referrc'l to stores, and such establishments; the palaces were the only houses I I'eferied to. Hon. Mr. ABBOTT — That serves my pur]»ose equally well. They vrould not erect i'ow6 of stores if they had no prospect of leas- pi'npln>sio(l it tlic rtiiploy^ our taiiiKM'H, it has uHhiHted ics, (iiii- wnrk- ) thb prcdiiclH est tty whicli ic (loL'iimentrt uired by tho ■1 at least us Is liini to be- uirmtiictui-ern. red into my i)f' the iiKinu- >'iiigs and tlic iiitted to U80 this counti'y, III mielligent be allowed to , and ibr tiie is doubtful, to t is in mo on a fail- test of jieople — the Mvest in that , who, as my doubt, invest i)f houses and i of houses ; I ■es were the '"^' them, and had them. S no "' '">' atmiirienf J*) ♦'Xpecdifi,,,! „f \,:.i' savi/i.rs old .H>ai' on tl II.' ilC'ept appro- 'luote l-ai'ticuiar •'•■•^ ii> to ty w » 111 ls'70 w "•iH'ople, ThedepositH .yoacs s(,„K. SL'.OOu, (((»() r '""'in rash deposits i,, ■;, lev ^'n' S(;;;,o(Hi ()()( lad then t I. in 1^<'~«M.()(»o biiildinir societies and ?!'.<-'<;.00(»: in lS,s,;, ,^1 lion j'efors, it \,r it'3' commenced. '|'i iiHtitutions of that ,| "»'»'*' tlian in isyn^ ^,,j '« iimonnt of ,j ICIl llio ••p'J-^i'^ i/i tl '^•'' i« (he latest d, ("^'•ription j,, ij,.-,, 10 If was in 187!). [,, ,1 '•^ «l7.712.tH)0, or al were $]4,7(i2.0(m' '10 sMvin.;rM bank » b^«7 Ihev W( itte t,> which tl l»t"' cent, n liout bei "".^IK call it §51,0„„,0000 witJ oxaggei.ation-$;i,;,,)o„,(,on,nearly;;oo N^'^-".'^ in, he .savin.-, banks / PO'cy came into force. I„all,| 'out !l() ■^ proper tlu; d ■IV was '!•' coiupila- /leposit^ i;i lS7f) I n.i,' "pen to the c| s at th( IH'rccMt. in ad iart;-e of '""*J "lat (his d vance of the iii'lireetly on II Tl I'lie qiiosfion tl '^' "X'idenlal matt. I'-'irucfive ■'•« which I lear •'discounts in the charfere.l | i"l«T!); they were 81 mn ban when the National P, ^I'-^'-o-Mits had .so largely i, ■"■osporous in 1887 than it had ''1^.000,000 in 1887, or $ ^"'Nuiie increase is oiKcrvabI ■ I were « 122,000,000 >t' ( nad <5licy eawo i,ito thv increased. th( iT,000.000 •ce. pei-centa^re of dishonoi-ed I country was ui'u.utMi rrieater Althotin-h these !<> 'iiiich nioi-e '■" I'^^T, with th '^'7 ■" ''^'^^ that u-hile th P'^P^'r in (he latter j^earamou percentage of (lishonoi-ed '« o/ionnously increa.sed paper was only I.Ol, a iit,|, wes on fl.A a;.., ., , nted to 4!)o ■<">ount of discount., the loss thai <'iii'■ ' ''1 P^'" ocnt Hon. Mu MACDr Vat? ""^ ^^'""^ ^^' ^^'"? ^'"0 not tliiuU tliose noted a lid It' vvl\ilc ago, are in bu.siiH'Hrt of tht' country, an jfCoroiun trailr wliitli weic <[ a ny iTivat ivo in thomsolvo, and w hieh soi-ve no useful pMri» The thictuations in forei,<.!;M tiade donend lafiioly on some powde.l 0,1 the Canadian Pacific Railway, the hgure. to which 1 have been referring reached abnormally large proportions as compared with previous years, and continued to increase until now ? How is it that though there has been no expenditure on the ("anadian Pacific Railway for the last three years, those figures still keep up •' It is possible that the amount of trade, whieh was very large about 1883, when large sums were being expended an.l large importations made iA respect of this great railway, may have been thus atToeted 1 1 is possi ble that it influenced to some extent the m- (>,e.,.o in deposits ; but if that were the sole or main cause, how is it thattherowasa large increase before the expenditure was begun, and a correspondingly large increase after it terminated t n iiiii Hon. .\|it. ()r)()\()ll()i:-._i tl t iliri'cjisfil ill till ^rrif Ulllllin- WlllC'li tlu.s lIlllll.'IIM' •.•X|K'lliiill H'f was iroill^ nil. FI.'.N. .\Iit. AlUU)TT-.Mv l.un. hio.Kl tliat tlien- \v W.I- III) CollstllUllMli ill I,SS((, HIKJ I !>• Illis|;il|M'ak <.|' ill I>s|. Vet l| it'i (• 111! riMsc was LjroaU'r in iIimnc t Wo yt'aiH iliaii i:i anv v -oif IS not to that i;x|u'ii.liluiv tlmt ih toy hull. fficii(i«'oii|,l^li,,\v (|,.,( , lining- ii^, ||,, '■ar -nice iiif.-t'asi- !•. attrilMitiM,.. If ami iss-i. t'l' vi'ars of k^s 1'. iNs; WIK'll ;|, ■,,-,, rac'ilic [{aihvay took iilacc. tl uii.ulit Ik- K'.I to lulirvc that it my hon. fViciicrs icniai'j '•x|H'ii.litiirc on accoiiiii of the ('ana. I lan !<■ incr(«a>c was al>iioi iiialJv |; ti^r. Wi> was (hie to thai «'\-|)('nilitii!i., and c Would 111' lion ot'inc rcasi,' IS like th i\ SI( yciii' .since IS7!I; so thai i|iiiU' naliiial. lint iLc •x I'- ot'a slairoasf — al iitiia- to tlu' (■x])t'n(litiiro on tl il IS lint iousonahlc t' ion I this .vanu- (.;k'|i '■if'lil (hat iiic.c;i.,o !(-• construction of the Canadian I'; icilic K'ail- way, since it ha.s hccn troini; on steadily up to the present i railway was practically completed inlSS"); tl The lienditiire Iiad terniinatcl ture i.s not a siitlieii'iit ii I'foni 1,S7!> to the dale of this hook ol statist! a( thai time, and ihcivro!.- tl ason for this <;'radual and inn- le enortnoiir ex- UMi ilications of inei-eased liii- 11 uii e.xpciidi- lllr.i'jise quoted iness here, however; th lere are nion- in- o.-e I that t-y no m.'aiis exhaust tliem. f wisii 111 i'vevy imaH^iiialile I. ranch of dade, th lieen ijoinir on. nave •how same iiieiea-^e has ot'the wealth oMho people, and ,i;',i,nx"iiate of money orders is i ndicutive to wlion I I am veferrin^'; liecaiise th nioie particularly of those cla sses ey-reat manulactnrer.s do not send money orders from those palaces they hiiild. accor.iin- to my h )n. friend. It i.s th a workinif men, the i\ age-earners At^hoso transactioi irniers, and other wav, Tl le. amount of is are carried on in lliat humh 'money orders issued in ISTD was gij TSs OOO In 1887 it was S10.:^2S,U(H), «4.0U0,00() in excess of the money orders ml, 87^; an.l they also proceed with that rein'~s of iIr> (•<)iii\try lliut caii-i's dm lr.'tiisnii*>|on <,f iiioiioy onli'iw j it is iiiil ilic MliigMali('iM>fl.ii-.i;ii,"sj, iliat l.'aM)liiloiy iiieuiisisteiit with the actual state of Ihinirs. h is iiM|M>sil»le (o ednteinl that the ilepieejalioii of ti-a-le anil the -jeeailenec ot the eoiinliy, no loudly a-serlt'il, ean be eo-i'xi^teht Willi ihe--e reliiifis. jl lannot he that dopreeiutin:,' iii wealth, wlu'ii r\riy evidenee of wealll latin^. in every lii-aiicli of hiisiness. and iiiif coiintiv irt > IS a<'eiMnu- itveiy de|iariMient of trade tliroii^dutut the eunntry. ll raiiiiol he possihle that our Irud diiiiini-hiiiir, when the iiiaidiineiv, tl «' IS le essential iiiatddneiy. whi(di Ks, are ineroas- iiiiahles it to he carried on, tin' discounts at the hanl iny in the saiiio ratio as everylhin;; else. Kverylhinj; that I have quoted a|i|)ears to he in a,riimilar ratio of ineivase, say 40 to ')(» |)or cent.; wlun it v,iiie>, it is that i( is lai in [ly he ponnilteil lofjuole: the results of the failiir»ts ii Another indicutiou 1 eoliinins of Mr. .lohiison's hcxik ar e most extraordin; 1 one of theso they repi-esented 8L'!t.;i47.()il0 ; in [sS7 they ivpn^si-nted Slti.oH, 000. with a Hade increased hy 40 to ,")() po.M^ent., as 1 have shown. Hon. Mil. l'()\VI-:i^~l think that tlie strik ill,!,' excess of tiiilures in 1S71» may ica«uiahly he aitiihutcd to the fact that that was tiie last year in which the Insolvr.nt Ad was in ojieration ; and imriien.se niiinhors of people assii>-ned in that year, hocause it was the hiht yeai' in which they could take advantai^Cf of the Act. Hon. Mr. AIUU^TT— My hon. friend's ■ir;j;iiment has a plausil>Io sound, and niiL;hf hi' jiistiticil if tiic tiu'ures siipjxirted it. llo.v. Mil. POWKIJ— I kiK.w it was the fact i any rate n my own city, iit IToN. Mil. ABBOTT— It seems leasonahle that this large amount of lidliires in that year should he attrihuted to tlic fact that the traders who had been faiiinir for years hefoi'c, seized upon thi.s remciiy in the lu-st year of its existence, and in that way the n.i,'f,'re- gato of fai.ure.s would Jiave reached abnormal ti-jfurcs; but unfor- .tunately for my hon. friend's theory the ligures were about the i;» ^ ot'liiilui't's lat was till' h1 ituniun.ie i!^ the luHl irii.- Ill iIm" |.tts,.,|i„^, y,.,„.^ |„ 1S7;, ,1 IHTti. »2"»,:i(M»(MiO, ill IH77 (I •"»»>, aii-l ill 1S7M, fho y.-ai- I I l>Mi i( iti laVc .!l|..l,.,l, (]„.v WOIV It IJIil,. I H)H. \v,i> nutsi,v,ny m.ioli. ..„U «J,;,(M»(MM)u "i mii.'li ill «-j:t.o(i(»,()(m. «„, »,,„„', | 111,'l'r. Wlllcli I- iiwi m..mcnt il,,. ,„.,., ,|,, |,,,„ ,,,|.y„ , lar iiioiiuwii i|„n- .||M|,,„.,| '['^^^, tiio i'ailii '•••> 'liiiiiiiis)K-(|. 'I'l iVitMul limy sav. the FriM.I ICI I IIKIV I ">«lt frnln lUv ,-\viU'^r,. „l ,,.,|i,.y, aiiwiliiM- I ■f;i- V( mmIv niaiiv '•( || ii'-c W ■III Act was iv|»falt..i ill i>s7, vnImii i|, :ili|iin- ainpi.' til,,.. K, ,l..v..Io,, if^.H^, when thnc ha-i III /..i-cc |b|. iiii, riad (1 y-'ar."*. wImmi Mi .ocay lioin ihr ,'tU.ct- (,t ihr N t' <'OIII|||\- U; II, slraM-(!ly ciK.iiirh and in :illl>||; I ii may In-. Imu | ■• lit \V lioljcs' '•■'■11 no Iii.o|\-,.|,i \,.| '" ,U"ii,o- t,, ,.„j,, .,,|,j '>l|r\, wl il'Il uii'ica-ci .">(! |(•'t!lKi^t«'nIly with ii> n, lie t,.i. • It (Mir $21>.()(HI,U(M I""' i-t'M. ; th.' failiiriw won ''•' "i' lh>' (iiiliii-e-^ of In7!)_..||| \ f; V lltti ty wcif glu'.oou.ono run tlio lisi; of fati, MHnitii-anl, and (I '•'••iH aic ninic -talislics of ili JTiiiiiu; tin- Jl ousc III and d.'. ay. had iii"M' lliaii as a;,'aiiist tl am*' kin< louilll tanc lua'lc Tl that KTL' !n ho l('\' o iKissiliility of mil S7!» it tire insiicanee In iif« was $81;. 000.000; Mirance. Now, hn u.s ^r,, to ••oasting trade of C.e Dominion vaiiee oi '50 |H'i- cent, ill jiii. i, wa.s 12,0(i»),(j;i:j to II"*; in 1887 it -somethinjrelse totally dilfcent-tho 11' loniia.;x' emjiloved in 1870 of ve ly nearly 50 per cent. Tl wais l7,51;i.UU0 toi 1?*, an advance ^y^'::.^^^!;!:!:^!^:::'"'--^---^--'^-'-'^ 2«) H(»N. Mu AHUoTT— Tin- .Htafi^ii-'^ nt tlic .•M:l^li^^: frmh- "t' ai'i'ivii)^ ami HI' Hi-ili.^li ('•i|iiiiil>iii .sli'iwcft t|i«- utiioiint i>t tiiMii!!: i|('|iiirtiii;4; ill If^T'* to !)»■ 2>;],T0T tons; in IMS; it wjh 1 -I"*!, I-'W t< 'I'liiil \V!i- ;i country in wliicli the ->lii|i|»iiiir iiiilii««ti y. ;it nil cVfiit"*. was not >liinirusliin;x niiicli. ihiisrimch !i> it \^•Jl^ ncarlv ->i'\<'ii liiiics art mvat in 1HH7 ji^ it wan in IH7!>. In oihui' wordh, it pi-iictically intica^nl liM» pt'i' ci'iit. t'vciy year o( iln |H'i'i..i|. I think 1 liavt |iri!tty iK'aily I'Niiaiislcii the I U. as ttii- as it in worUiiiijiui'noi (in- coimtiy liavf ]»ros|«Mt'd and liccotnc jiiafticMlly wealthy, iindor tlio rofiinf, oi' \\\*.' Xatii'iiii' policy. 1 tliink my lion. I'i ii^ud I'min Midland (iiii',lil 'n lu- < (miIciiI with lliosi- lio-iui>>. i a|);i(>nl i<> Idin as a < oiunn'i'cial inaii, and a 'tnaiicia! man. and as. [ daiv s;iy, a hi'itri' jiidy:(! o< tln^sc i .imrs than many of us wiio dit not prc'tond to Ids special knowlcdijc. wlu'tlnM' tho fact that then" had lircn a l;ii'i.n'i' rantfc of ili-ruiints. ;i lar,!;i'r amount of Havinjfs, a larger amount of ot' hM-«ini'ss tiaiisMtcd, and fewer had dcltts made, arc tacts which he would hiin-clf interpret as conclusive proot'that his husiness was not juo-pering y And I am glad to put tho question in that way to my h'ui. iiicid, hecauso he asked us for some evidence of the iViiitioii from the expenditure that has heen incurred in developing the intt'i-nal communications of this country d.uring 'he l.ast ten years; and [ ollei- to him as siudi evidence this increase in cverv thing which the people of this (Mtuiitry possess, and in cverv hu'^iii ■ -' ;. h 'he people of this cound'v engage in — an inci'case of iiO to 7(ill iicr cent, du in:.'; tho years I rofei- to . and J think it is toi^-vdny giod ovidence, and that the fruition it ostah- lishes is a tolerahly gooil crop foi' the seed wo have sown, in the improvoment of our internal communications. 1 think ;sets, ado|)tini,f tho simile whi( h my hon. friend Used — if ihey could hhow su(di results in i'ash, in capital, ill trade, and in their husiness, they would justly and joy- fully congratulate themselves. Hon. Mr. POWKK— What about the debt? ii!i:(' aii'iviii;^ iHiil wan 1 -I7'i. I-'W toll*, stiy, at all t-vciit-, nouflv ■'I'vcn tiijH'K lU'db, it pfactically 1. I tliint< J liav< luliriltt'S till? OXtt'Ill I'ul'li' My iinpivb- i< |ii'ii|Mi-^iliiiii I lai'l 'vciy lit ]iailnit lit nt' Will livo 1x1 I am ;j;lad to put iiiM- In- a^kcd us for iliiit' thai has lieon oils of tlli^ coiiiitry such evideiiei- this I'oiiutry possess, and iiti'V nii:;af;c in — an < 1 rofor to . and J ho Iruition it estah- e have sown, in the I think our shop haw mnicroial men could 111;; the simile \vhi< li 1 i-esults in cash, in luld ju-tl}' and joy- 21 Hon Mm. AHll./IT-Th. .I..f work-, 'I'll,. I creijii i; III. '"" «ci,i|,.„inM tioin Midland ' is ''pic.-..'ni,.d l.v p ihli niiiri('\ WOI' '"?: expcml. d ii, advanii Vcr\ pcopcM-ly ^iWH lih ih,. p|.„„j ,(„„ ,|,, I, area^-reat deal heit.r ahie t, we vv.Mv ill 1S7S, wl,.,,, u, "-■• ^MVr II- rhc oil icr niulit. |>a_\- inf. -rest m, mtr "'Unn 111.' ^■aliona^ I'.. I >i;i>l|r il \v. liiaii lc\ iI'»N. Mil. MAC|t()\.\|.|»_'f •iKhU'cn inilli..iis in i| WeMy-seVei, mill le tofiii, |. Veil!' oiis (low niraiii-t II ON M liavc cited II K. AliHo'l I'-V I ;rer ah le.sc liii'iir '\' mil. e> lioj .)nl\- llllllKUl- 'liiilry IS proirressiiiiT, ji,,,, j,,.,,^. |"''»\c Mil.slanti:illv ll lai I, lo show whal an values ot otii- foreign t, Mhsaii-^factiny i^'iii.i, ll ,'re.- i.i^. |.j,|,i,||y aiidsai.dy. hiil ale, as thev a|.p..';(i- in ||,,. .,, |'p»l'elit n-ilils „( t(, IIIlsUc are ;^:i :r';;^;'i:;:,r: *' ••-""^--i.i.esueeessiif.^xiai:..., I' .N. t i' U'-'"' ........s.rylo... rnr.i,eriMthisdisecti.,n it wouM " "'^y ": .^'"•^^- ''>• "'<• '•^l"--..c. „.e,. ...u,n...i..s ,.. . '''■^•'•'^•'H<-tfo:..io„t,a.lo.doesnotneees.. iu "'" -'""-■ I'i< werchctaci ,hi., .uj. ,;. '.i;.,. „,„. ly iriij-ly III, d.r;i(i,'iic,M,t laii Hot h our '''>■''''■'■ '''i^''''!^ '''V d. .H.tc.dwi.h such'adiuiral tion, has iM.t'i, tre.)uently in piceiseiv tii. : :""' f""-' «'■"-■■'"■- ■!• r,„,. . , ,i„. .„„'i, ,,,'us, ,:, „ he t'Ves of some of .hey we,.„ ,„,,k.„,.,i,.t.,..i, ,„.„„..,,,„., „, „,„,.,.. ,,„vo 1,:;,, ^1 ^.« lie I.,,. lo„ yoa,.,. riierolon, „|,|,„„gl, their ,l„.„i,,„ „,„|„ „...„ i 22 rtiirin;,^ tlwit period the Ignited Stales was in a pcnlous coivlition— that it was povony striclvcn and depressed. There are other instanceb which apply to the same j.oint. New South Wale- had a toi'eign trade of £21.(1(10.000 stei-ling in 1S82 , it had taUon otV to £ir),000,000 in ISSC. a ditterence of nearly £T,000,(tOO sterling; hut hotween 188:5 and 188U .now Seoii ciKU'iiKni:- holjjU^^s. ami t'ailin,iiiinioii poor but it is a mo: 111 lie wav t>l ;t sin-^-iiiai- t;u'l thai Canada is ^tx alii'ad lit this Ibivign tnule ; ailv in advance of the llnitod States in its toreii-ii lni( United States can lie ])rospe!otis w le. IFow is it ixissil.le that the hen its forei,i>:n tr.ide ean lie so ^inail — so contenqitilile, one nii ii'ht sav, as eomiiared with a conntr} I of he said to date from the time tlie Cioveniment like this, with .-.Mnparatively no eaiiital, an^l with a sh.n'l peric prosperity whieh may ,doj)fed the National P<*liey. Hon. Ma. .MA.CDONALD (Midlan i -She exported t.i (ireat Britain four limes as rautdi as she imported. Hon Mr ABBOTT— That does n<>L attect my ai-aiment at all. I see tluU; in spite <,f the alle-rd deorea-e of the a-i^re-ate amonnt of the foreio-n tra-le of Ca'ia'da, whieh is ])ointed at hy the advocates ot' the deeadenee ol Canada, of u niesti'ieled I'eeijiroeity as a pr .of that fii'ei-i'n trade is u'reater in the projioriioii <» f -U to 23, than tin forein'ii trade t the United States. If the amount of forei-n ti ade a test o!' pi'osperity. we are more prospei IS Stat((s. )us than the Unitei Yet the alloijed small amo ui itol'our foreign trade is ust lion. i;-entlemen fipposite to p r that teiicics hon. ado, liut tor ■;till groator propnrtioii. 1 ivpcul. lluit llic latt Nat lonal J'oli IT was tlic i)iiiicii)al ohjcrt of t!ie uirrea)'- ^^""'^ ''^ ^•'•'^ representations de a Kjut the sugar traded ( per cent. In jioint of faot, the duty imposed on raw sugai- averages ()5j*\y percent. ; antiner has. The ditferenee between Go/'j and 7] per cent, does not, however, correctly indicate the percentage of taxation, because I'etine I sugar is of greater value than the raw tei'ial. The actual protc-etion afforded to tlie sugar refiner is ma the diiVei'enee between t!r)j",f per f.'ent. on r iw sugar a nd 71 i)er "cut on re fined sugar, yv^/s the disturning element caused by the differ- ence in value of the clasK-- of refined sugars used liere, beyond the raw ma terial. 1 am not an advocate of sugar retineiv iiave no ■(toek in theii- companies, and know very little about them; but I see what the law is. I see the figures, and I can make the calcu hi- tion, and what I have kfated as to that is correct. That is the kind of exaggerated statement that is put befoi'e the people, I quote that onlv as one. but it is the kind of exaggerated statement which m- has made a t'Ci'taiii number of proselytes for the iloefi-ine of eo merciul union. But I believe they are not very numerous, and that their number will iliminish dav by day. There is one thing which granted to lis oxtrava •ill til. IfilR 11' tor I'otin- mitaf-'Uirt'i's )iioy to ]jay t'st (legi'oe ; ivono ])i>iiit le Niilional II tod ? the inlolliireiit people of di nients in favor of tl 21 IS COIJlltiy nill8t MOf in, 11 le ineonsisteiu'v of (li.»o U'liow.lrH.trinoof mirosfnele.i iee in all i||,.s,> ., risii- Histanet- a nliort tiini now— u'lion iveo trad we wore ur.o:o'l (o (;|,,'( ifii-iiments witli oadi oil r»'('ij.)(ici!v, A'Jiioli t,i?o— l.ut the Hibjeet IIT. I' oi- ^' was the j.olicyof my hr.„. fri.'nd '•^ ]>;ot(y i.carlv ,ivtni State- , iiiroly and 'w ourselves into tl S li'ave this woi-thloss al ■^ I'ppo-.JtO, le arm- ,,f d,,. r,n,i.,i 11" nian is so io.,u)r;,nt ""Jiiinable, poliey of proterf nioi'o hi^-hly protected tl '*'« not to see (hat tl ion. (rad do not >"nwearo; that there the prineiplesot fj'eo trade prinei]>| P''«^-'»il at all; that there tl lat eoiinli'v is i'lve lev are a,- friends say, they have f liare in that tree tradt ^'^'^asmanyeoiintryin thew.u-M. lee trade hetween themsol iintan'unisi ie to iini, rnv hm. the Tl <'lieaj)est, and .soi i^' l>niiei])le of i)vx' u-.uh V'.'s. and \\ is they otfoi' ns, is to 1)1 "nly, fo the exol tieoui'; ■ai'ost niai'kel. ]}iit the i elves (hnvn to free trarle witi e will o liiiy in '•ei' fradi' f'hasin^-p.nver of that country ft usionof thorestof the world, and wl 1 one coiinti y ion ( ">go ? AV'e h live nowhere ■oni any cause ceases, wl H' pur- particular kin.l of limited f else liore a?'e we we nuisl confine ourselves (o (1 noth heci happens a-ain ? Thev toM 'ins loft. AVe have been toM ,| "'«■ the United States could not ). ■*'e ti'ade, and if that fail ii> lat our distre s us we have "y country's policy bee us that w he Iv-now what ave read in the after free tnid Opposition. came commei'cial K've, with (he people ',fran:.d nnion. a. tiiat a;^ the policy of (} le lo h Commercial u anvth ive any control ovei "ion is the .loctrine under wbi(d iiif'' but it our found out aff taritf, and in fact, f > we should Cease niiirht awhile that that b sa\- over large a morsel tor the people ovilot T "" "'" ""> union followed the fate of fZ r d ^'f'' '""^■- ^^"'' ^•"mmeit-ial i-.o with the leade^^^I^; "'' T 7""" ''"''''^''^ '^ •'-^•' ot the Mity J mu8t except my hon. ftiend 28 IVorii X.!\v Wi-stminstor. JIo ^tilI fllillk^ ii iIh> -laiid r.-iiuHly lor all our evils, a kint b.^ advan- tageous. And you iiave got it elleeiually put in sueli a position, that it cannot be changed for whatever ])erio. oi' make our intluence equal to the intluencc of those sixty millions. unU'ss it is on the |)lan of Cant. Bobadil, of whom ho must have read, in his researches into ancient history about the iinnex- ation manifesto. The j^-allant captain proj.osed to destroy the enemy's army, by selecting twenty tall fellows, challenging twenty men. killing Hiem : challenging twenty more, killing them ; till the army was annihilated. Would he divide the sixty millions into sections of tive millions, and overcome th.-m diplomatically, on equal terms as to numbers, section by section ? But having by that, or some other equally infallible means, made an arrangement as to the taritV advantageously for (!anada. he proposes to crystalize and perpetuate it by anothei- agreement— that is to say, by a tj-eaty, 1 suppose. Of course, that would be perfectly satisfactory. We know how punctillious oui- friends below the line are in canying out tiealies. We Icnow how agreeably they liave behaved to us m respect of the Fisheiics Treaty. We know how amiably they boi'o our moderate attempts to enforce it, and how they submitted at once, without a nmrmur. when wo ti'ied to carry out some of those conditions. Of course, if they made a ti'caty like thai, with us, they would carry it out. They would not threaten retaliation, or close their borders against us. if we aske"iitfy: that ih.lid <'iiiuid me ot: How he I eniemhe:' vere well Je Idea of aniie.xat t^'ained them 1 loii not '-^ made ,n 1854; thaf lor tl men who .signed tl ■""•'1 in fav(ki- of annex- ''i'a]>pea.' until ie.-»' scvfii \' p.'''\'iil(;d the rcHd- eais We -M IS manit "lion, and th ontroal. were, in fi,ct tl •'■■*lo. a not ientli I'ofei-enoe to anne.\;iti !»' ivpresenlaii Vt'l'V tuimei'oiis hod \'e >t tl y in If m\- 1 ion; and he says m,h,,dv w I'ememhe,' that: tl i"n. friend Jiad been ( K're was no toundat <'n or tiftt-on \ annexation manifesto was tl ion for f| H' whole jieopio in ii>^ ever eeii'^uu'd for le Would eaj-s older 1 in a small portion of th I'OlltiiToWth of i"se statements. ^j'Jn, ,.,, ... ■ '"^ I'opniaiion ^M'ubtsamong, nm a petulant child who Strikes 1 n.i? annexatpon with the United niurdering her. Tl 10.000 H\y wore exai 'i«nur.se, hasof deliberat men, who had sufle,eiii,ned thai nuiiiife.-to. 1 rcjjtied lliat I was, am 1 my commission was immediately eanct lied. I wa S IHM iueed to the ranks. Sir .lohn Uosi^, who suhse.iueiitly hecamo one of the most prominent men in the cnuntrv, who was, wlien lie ilietl one of tliccontidenlial adviscr.- ot 11 i^ Eoval lliiihness the Pi'ince of Wale.s, had his silk li'own taken iVoni him ant I i rcmeml)erweU hisdiscon- certe'i'■•* •-oine (liiim..s jii "■■^t iii.nlit (liilnnt lepo.-K. Tl '»t(li!i( o'entl emiiii wiis in ,1, . '';-"" ""•' vvliidi ,„v 1 7 '"";''"" ^•^■'■.n^l=unlvH-| OVlllu- ilii st'eii. II ii Ivaiitages whi'-l I one Jiiiii,] I "oiildai: '■•■■''I'liKioil, Jf, I.' a ilV.'s '(•'I'lie to us tr .vi'iir, the United Stat 'V'i millions of imports purel ■omconimeioiaiun "f the dutii I's "cre alile t Ik' ni-ly 'N inipo.sed upon them. '•^ell forty-five mill I'liiclia.sed hv ( '}' ( anada, d ion (fill readil similar value, how much l'^'"l'le enjoy ifthey could send would otii Canada as freely as th. ifinntactnrers a competin^r with the Kni;! greater ,share of this I 'ons in tha t market nrintr n,,. 'ii Wh( ih fCuglish m ey now send tlieni ( submit to the tariff wh n into '■• while liie ''•"'" fliis plan of l,,\ la. ,,| amounting to from--, to 'naiiiitartiirocs—no; J nianiifhcnn.Kl good's. WluiTaiv """S tlial th, "Ollld h; P'-r cent. Ill n ve to '^■■'■N ;i,'tisai),s aii.l nu-d lit' i.s going to .soil laiiic loaiost bonolit. would ^^ ol (lU'Ofs ? Jie does nof Wo ooin:.- fo (1 l>''"i; itisoniyoi.r n-oiking rl togctlVom our woi'kin.^ d l";^.'^''"ltlia( ti..'y,uetu b,,i 'illVstt*. tllO fi iN.'^e.s tJi< In otii ' "'|>:il about "■^ >^i(nhj()0,m)0 worn, of > ^vitJi oiif niaiuif;,,.. IjOJldltoil Uy this '• \void,s, i,e j„.(, >f t); ^'•-'i'-'. and (bo svi VroiUui of tbt'ir far, ('if baiKbs. Thc^o of ■•■'" t'lat can b 'po.seH '^^^i, or the '■y will .soli nol ]>i'etond aiiytb lis wbiit \\\' w ^•^'■!y kind tbev wilJ I '0 rt.i.sod by ibt' bib Of iiio- elsf, IJ »"' of" nian>.fat:,u,ed , ■y i'''<>in US, and 'Ii .>*!l\'. II *■' docs eciprocity was i.n^vided I'niiada desired to sell ''■"' iloubt, it wotild. B ills country of -'on on terms of perfect freed lat enormous value. om. would =ll< whoic would be ;'" ^-y -'• nart.,.al prodttcr ;;";"'' ^^^'^ ^'^""^ ^'> -? Th.y ''----xpiiin™of;r^;;r,s::;:::p'-^ % ' H 1)2 As tlu'V. wo'iM louvo.iHonly ..ur(. fanners, artisans, and .neehanh's." This al.o is perfeetly suupl.. Mr. Hitt haKit .ut and -try. '• Undouhtedly." he says '; the^ , u. bcin" subjected to the sa.ne tu.ilV with us, would, n. a 1 fairness, hr ': Isulted as to its provisions ; bu, WK. ^^^f:^Jl!^^^';;^;^^ i„ .,,1 tuinuss. GKNl-:iaLLY IIAVKTIU': I'UKV AlJ.lN x VOU. h IX DKTHUMlNIXCi WHAT Tin-: IJATlvS SHOULD Bh. ' 1 do Moi thitdc anvbody has any .loubt of that. We should be duly .rateful for bei..^ eonsulted ; and after reeeivt„|.MluU .niportant attention, we could not -rumble if ouradviee should be d.sr.-arded. I have o.dv read these two or throe extracts to show exactly ,vhat Mr. llitt's idea was, of which some of the hon. gentleme.j opposite speak in terms of approval; but it is still further developed in U>e course of that spe.eh. It is not sufficient that the JmH.i States should "deternnne what the rates should be, but that I.e Uni.e.l States shot.ld put revenue offi.'crs in all our ports, to see that the duties which Thev should determine upon, were ian-ly collected. Tn phvin terms, they^iro to fix o.u- duties and then collect them lor us The revenue officer of t;0,0(J(),OUO people, is not hke y t.' t,ouble himself much, tdx,ut the revenue officer of a small outlying satellite which contents itself with raising produce, cutting himber. and catching fish, for the Americans; tttul with receiving what pittance they may choose to dole out to us, us what they call our oportion of the revenue of the country. Is the,-e any Canadian Ivho has su.d, a contemptible opinion of himself and oj his countrN as to yield to such a degrading proposition ? I refuse to believe i. But let us look at a few of the. etiects of this admirable arrangement. The mauuaicturers in the Utiited Stat.. wouM hav. free al^cess to our markets. Hon. gentlemen on the other side sa^ .'{3 Yen vvi\ ill ivtiir,,^ would I ^"'"";'.''pi'.'l,"niioUrt /niiiuinict III a nnii L'nitod Slates ulivady li|,r""'"'''' ''''*' ''^''''^'i^'"''<'''-s of th positi.,/1 or,.,,i,.i|j,y ■aj» """ |>0(.plr, With '" I'Olllpi'to impairiii! *' MirpliiN prodii.is .,(■ \v| ""fi'V and i.| i|t,n<»,ssiny its ,N| ilj)ply l><>lii '"'II' iiioanw or j """• <'oiiutrv. and M.|lini);f tludi >*•>« mannnicfinvs, wid lOIlt lllloii. i,'t3iitlomt!n 'Cliat do. Tl \\dio |,.iv<- I is vvliat I fi'iish out pv i!»|>|»unlrv' vva.- '(-■011 ciii^a-od in I ■<''l". wouM sutlicu (O '■^J Miuniiflicdnv in the l^'""u- it. aii.j lion. »'i-iiio>s j^ ^"i-pliiH products on 1,(. Aim ""^'l'' ;• kind ofslau-l.tc, |, iK'W it lifttcr III tn "">i<' nianulact I'K'iiii iiiannlucfiu J'l.sc, lor till liiein atu ivdu,.,,! ""'- Mian i|„.y ,,,n ,,,.|, i»\vn i"'"''' ill ilifir (Av nt li ■'^'■^. When tl.cv I '"110, rlu.y wiii ,ioi lavo '^'•"•^'^- '^'"1 thoy nii^lu |.,v.. d lillMlloy will shin (| " <";"»My. Tl.at nu.ul.t l.reak- with '<»"it I'utui P".on, foaoountrywlKMcfi illiouliy jM rooo\ •-•'■iiii,^ tlioni. ■" ovil ooi l'"iioy lollowi'd l,v 1 1 ^'■'inono.vs (o (hernsol i^'.V oaiLslaiiyliicr il ovoryliody knew it. 'I| it'iii iintii 1S7II. (i vo.s. Tl loiri ''ill WH< fl, w'un aliout to .St *'•' a hmail fiict "' ^il'Sl llliflj;- (luK "koly to 1,0 oru.^iu-d oui | '"'y in Canada, w W.'l,sp,.rf,.,.(|y „„dc,,„)od; "iiianthouiri.tofwlienlio' 'IS il'th pos.sesHion of ^«r>ooplfontho otIuu'sidooVth '.V conipotiiion l.y t|„. |_ Jfow I 11' am I nitod Statt'M? our in an iniioli of tl J) rod 11 and tJm (0 in u V markcf, would it not ( "■ii" manuliioiiirod i^ood *' li'H* vvislu'd to uvt c.vol !'« worth tlioirwhil,. i( ■■* ay our inanutiirtiini -'••«nd.ollittorlosstlianitoouldl iisive .Nond IS can in a I '•< '■mil oui' local ind produocd lor, •■••■■ ",., locai nulustr ,.sv | ,.,,,,11 * ' '^y C'a.e.s in which that was <].„ ' , '' '^'''' "' ^''^' ^^ "I'-in horo is perfocfly awdre of '^ li.shn,ent,shud i»"y, the numi 10 r wan verv a.s a ni ^ritt descril '■onvort u.s into fi '•'s, as the one he proj 1'"^ "^ '" <-'xnctly the position h "wnufactiiringindustr ii'meivs, la ho ''• -y^y prioe thoy liked, wh •It's, and im].'oso. tl t-ro piece of '"'1 that Mr. - v.. s, „,,,,„,,,,,,_,,, „,,,^, rers and pi-event for the fiit en th "«'n manufactures on 'ire anyetfort to d '«y Mt'il, aiiil what will liiippi'ii a^ain, if we air ever plaicd in tin' hamc position an that which we oci'iipiod bi'foio IS7!). TlnTc is no risk ill pi'ophcsyinj,^ lliiit. ihoiiirh f iioju' tlio truth of the pi'oplicsv will ni>v»T have to hi- fxpi'iirnciitcd *« and iiicaiii,'!' fl.f '"•'•'''•- Treaty. „„i.le a lu,,,,:.! uir.i- t., -i I'tMipn.cal li!i '•' "l>i(M'lio„s l..||u. u„r.'Mri,.hH| Hut Ih- tlio.sc (ii|',.,s wviv all tl ».l'"'lloi,s (o iTcipiocily, I H|„.;,|< „1' arc Mow ('(»hi(ii(li/i" 1 rt'(|j);,,,.ity wliicii I, IV I, treaty, wlii.l, wjH "i-.aiKl !„)( to a r.-aNuiiahl,. st.|i.il)| "I. l/'it'ii'ls in»l sacriiic o rocipron'ty «' our iM,lM>i,i,..s. and wlii.d, m- would I'rcpart-d k, c.ii.vnt Ic if s,,,.} '•Ul.isMMallcd u,.r..Htri,.tod rcTi,m„dh';'ivhirl."i IfHllictcd t(» il IJ ri'ally Ij'ith riatn ourHclvcs, l,y what tVco of ,||,iv > an arniniiCini'nt '■"11 Id lie liiadi: und I'lil and inanulactiuvd l"'"l>"'l.-*"t'tliisro,„,i,.yandtlu.'L'nit,.d.St ^•oiild onabl.! wiiatovi-r we |,ind '•vr,,r...vs,s.tol,fadn.itt..dinl..(lu. L'nitrd «rHtand to Ik! all's, uco l>»'i-cth(. ofduiy. TluMMU'ct ""' "'*''-l>''"ol'a,siinilarP|»osod lo I i.,..|. 'nir IS J>i)<;sod to it.; Inn tl.at would Ik. rl K "ilJ' people yenei-allv ar«( strioted rec wJiat would be t) liad III 'iprorityu.sinilii H' iieees-iary result of tJu le result ? •'iieiiio' our revenue. s 111! re ii'cstrieted i-eciprocity My As a mailer of trade "'II. Iiiends seem f. think" that ifw 111 tlds country, and ship it to the [ we could nianidaeture an vtf not I •(' infeifored witi von n tries. AV'hal a I 1 a.- to oiifCii,s,toms dnt lu manufacture anythinjr welikod 'nited Stales; and thai we .^houhl .'ind maniifacturo cloth I •out woollen cloths? (^ouM w les on f-'oods from (jther •oil' it ar the frontier, and si e import wool i'l-oo ino ry, to ,.ompeto with the products of the' I I]) it across the ti'om taxed wool v [)„ j nited States m 'lothat? Would thov all 'on. ^^entlemen think they would all '•ails, und send them to the TJuited Stat low- us lo iaipoit iron Irec, manufi iide ow us to K'tuiesteid nlool rail l>orJ»(K,d of S20 '/ 1)( '"•which the dutv 08, in conipeiition with 11 was .some 8^S, and is now in tl len- to that? It woul.l 1 'oes anj hon. i;ontl(,.man think tliey woiil coul of le a vei u) neinh- d consent 1(1 import one iron free, it ii'on, which I hone t y protitahle thin.; for us, p,„haMy. ]t would destroy th wo Jf profitable iui-in,vss, Jv^ew Etigland States, i I)e to see developetl soon, but it e incipient production would ive us a we could manufacture rail, alongside of the rom tre.> iron, and ship them across the line j 36 free, it would ])ay us well ; tlicy could not produce them then iischeaply as we could, because tlieij- rnw material, in so far as tiiey don't ])ro- • duee it tlicmselves, is heavily taxed. That cat e^ory coidd he enlarged to any extent. But what could we do if they said to us : •• You must not imj)Oi't iron free, and nuiiiufacture steel I'uiis, and send them in here tree of duty. You must put the same duty on iron that wo have, and put yourself on an exact footini>; with us." So with woollen goods and cloths. Wo have larg-e cloth faetoi'ies now. I am not familiar with these CuBtomsque.stions. but [ believe we import wool tree, and get large qiumtities of it from the countries with which the lion, gentleman from Midland would encourage ti-ade rela- tions. But the United States manufacturers pay a heavy duty on wool. J believ(^ there ha> been an agitation among the ]trodueersto have it increased, and amongst the manufacturers to have the duty reduced oi- taken olf altogether. You would have the wool manii- factuied on one sideot the line by a man who pays no duty on wool, and by a man (m the othei- side who has to i)ay duty on wool. How long would the United States stand that ? The .same reason would necessarily ajiply to every attempt of our.s to establish any indepen- dent manufacture, except upon exactly the same tai-itf as that ol the United Slates. We would be Just as much constrained to adopt their laritf, if we had uiircstrictctl recijn'ocity in the sensi' l.have just descrilted, as we should lie under this scheme of Mr. liitt's tor commercial union. It would not make the slightest dilVei'ence as to the i-esult. The theoiy woulil be ditler^Mil at tirst, but the operation of it must bo the same. The United States would never allow^ (nor would we, under similar circumstances) a neighboi-ing nation to manufactui-e goods from tree raw material, and bring it in competion with their manufactured goods, made from taxed raw material. It bears absurdity on its face. But how could we resist, supposing we had, l»y heavy duties, practicallj' shut our ports against England and eveiy other j)art of the world except the Uniteii States? We should have destroyed our revenue anil manufactures ; one year's experience would be suflicient to ruin us. Then they could nay to us : Put duties like ours on all these I'aw materials, or we will shut our Customs frontier on you. Where would we go ? Where could we go, sup])(jsing we had such an arrangement as the hon. membei- from British Columbia desires ? Would we go to England, and ask her to make war on the United States, because they would not maintain thp ,1 ! 1 37 tlitt'ei'ontial duty we had cstablisliod tio'iiinst ll lO ninllifr Cduiii -y ? Well. I do iK.t undcM-stiiiid liado: 1 do not pioteiid to iiiidei'staiid it ; Imt iliis misonin^: suenis to l)0 so j^implc, so plain, m) (:\<>txv, tliat liow it can l»e di.-puted J caiuiot the view I hold, l>y any rca'^'inii out satisfaotorilv, and show what 1 ijee. i have not iicaid an3'liody dispute oi- 'V 'in y la.i. 01' aruiie tliern iilliM'N there is in (he po-ition I maintain, and how unudi nioie eoiTcet the oppoMto would ]»•. It is quite possiide I may bo wrong, Ijut 1 cannot for mysolt ^ee in what rcsjieet I am wr(jng. I ean see that by ado])tiiii;- unr(>sti'ieted procity the result would Ite thi.-: W il'Cl- e would luiiakdown our manu- facturers, we would in-eak down our revenue, place oui laiitV undei theconti'ol of the Ignited Stat have to do exaetlv what thev told and from that moment we w ■oul( -neilln'i" iiHU'e nor less. \V Iv-now the consequences. We would deserve such a fate. Wo ! Would deserve to be ci'ushed out of exisicuce, and nuidi satellite oi the ^-reat country to the south of us. That is wliat wo a coi iiemptiblo would merit, what tn-ery ihinkin^- luai I would believe wo richly merited, if wc consented i > make the change which is insidiously pressed upon u> by hon. genlli'iiien opposite. T am really a-hame"d ter, and said so much whitdi Ki\e said before, so of having spokey so long about this mat is purely a repetition of what hon. /^entl.'inen 1 much better than 1 have. Hon. Mr. MACDONALT) (Victoria)— It i> an unrestricted liscussion. Hon. Mr. ABBOTT—When I commenced. 1 stated what I intended to try to establish, and I venture to tl^nk that I have at all events shown strong aigumonfs in favor of the correctness of my posiii.)n. 1 think that the aspersions uj.on our policy are proved to be unfounded. 1 think its success has been dcmonstraicd. 1 think r Jiave established that the statements about our Ibreign trade upon which aj'guraents against our prosperity are urged so,^ti'onglv! have no foundation in fact, or in reason; that this countrv Vi.s largely prcspered undor the National Policy, an.i is lunv in a pasitio i to prosper in a Btill greater ratio of progress in th(> time to come Heaven knows we have had difficulties enough to <-ont.-ud with since this policy was inaugurated. Unfortunately, to ietar'-tl.-Wos, tl.e productive IhLt ontcn.l w.dK.nnsl.-.Ml an,l unr-easin^'c-alunuues upo,itho people m.on ana piospeefs, Iron, -ei.rlemen on t!,e other sid.-, Hov. Mu. |'OU'l.;]J_.re,haps the ho,., .enth.u.an will allow n.- to iiifeiTiij)! him fhci't' ? 1)0 di.ssutisjied Will) thatstfit.'.ineiil. Hox Mu. 1>()WKR-This stu.e,ne„t has heen made ve.y .>nen. one, "' " ''f '"' •^'' ""''"' ^''^ ''""• «'«»tleman i. able to produce de de :?" "^''^' ' '""""'"^ """''^"' •''■ ^^'^' ^---' P-'y ''- "• ''i-'l l.ns asked me t<. p,.oduee ;jO n.,aneeotanK.mhe.ofU>e r^..;>nn party dec,.vin,theiunt,.,^ Iho «ask ,s un easy one, I ask n,y hon. IViend if it has not heen stal.;i h. usan ,„nes that th. count,,- i. being en.hed by taxation < P1K..I ,o the House, ,s it „o, a fact that this eounfy issaid bv hon .e ^mon opposite t,> be c.shed under the burden of taxatiJ^. Ms 1 n , r~ '' '' ''' "■ •^'' '^'^ "'"'l^^''^'-' ^^^^'' ->'^-'- countries. ove '- I'-"-- and out of this ilouse, a hundred tinges ovu, that the b,„,len .,t taxation in thi« eountrv is less than it is in the country to the south of us. ^ Ho.v Mh. head (Quint^)--And it has been .tate- ^ statements tn fU «• / ''I'l"""} • ilave theie not been numerous ^ eon^r? '^'V" ^"'"'" ■■'"'''' ^'' '' Manitoba and Uve tbcre, ,n eonsoquetfce of the grinding monopoly of the Oanadia.i 39 Pacific Railwiiy, and otl],e injustice and purtiuliiy ot'tlio land laww, which were allen:ed lo be so much worse than the land hnvs of tlie' adjoinin..' Slates; and because they would be crushed under i-iiilway^ rates for the cari-iairo of their produce, wind, were so much greater that the railway I'ales of the adjoining States? lias that not been said hundreds and thousands ot times'/ KoN. 3[R, PO^Y^m— Not thai no ..ne c.mld live there. iloN. Mu. ABBOTT-l think (he statement went Metty nearly as taj- as tluit. Probably the stal.Muent was \ arirnl i,v saving that a man coul.l not make a living there; that imniiui ant's sliould not «•(, there, because when Ihey got there they would be in a counli'v that was crushed by excessive taxation, and would 1... under a grin.ling ninnopoly in res],ect of trafflc that would cnisi, them under excessive railway I'ates. These were all calumnies, unfounded calumnic> Tlie Canadian I'acitic Railway might be a monopoly if its c(mtract had been carru'd out ; but it is not. The monopoly has l)een got .id of by an arrangiunen; with the Government, i-lven befoi'e 'that took place, railway rates were not greater ; on the contrary, (hey were lower, than in the adjoining country, as has been repeatedly demon- strated. Moreover, those j-ales were under the control of the Govern- ment of the Dominion, and could be diminished, and have been dimmished, as ti^affic inc.-eased ; whci-eas, the railway rates on the other side of the line, to which our admiration is constantly beino- directe set one class against another in this country; and the object of it, is power. The lion, gent Icnien who seek to oust the present Government, know very well, that the ^'ssentiaily prospe, jus people in this countiy are all on the. side of this (Government— prac- tically all on the .side of this Moverinnent. The more intelligent, the more industrious, airl the more thrifty, of the employed, ai'e on' the side of the p(.liey of this Government, because they all remember 1878. Talk to the workingmen in Montreal about abandoning the National Policy, and see what they say, They say: "No" we do not want to go back to the soup kitchen ; we' would rather 'have a house of our own, and foo.l to cook. anf>ple, and bhould be destroyed ; they may by that means obtain a large number 41 anoloctzon To all the.se peoplo tlu/ nul.u^.Hen, is h • o .^ •i.o.y u-ouM ,,e, n.oro for their u-ork, that th.. nu^uu- v I'l n.orc ,n..,u.y to. th.i,- p.o.luc-o, if they syouUl ,o ove o , ^ nin ^^atos o,. ,,,e this an.un^e,nent with the rui,..! St.t.s .' " ' are getting ..ow. A.ul that the n.onopoly of nrosncTilv • '•'"•'l-ted l>y the u^itators ,o their omp >ye,r^ hj',, "' " -dusively with the..,„p,oy.., Uu.Ul L 'Z^^u Z^;!;^: -;'^''=^ they ,lK.n will live better tlKU. ,lu.v do . J 7^^^^^ -heve that the hun. .e.ulen.an trorn Halifax: if ho w^ v i n ' <.>-morn,u-, would <.o„sc-„t to abandon the Natio ■ 7;> i' u .0 .or Uo ,ni,h, ,,. .,,., ,,, ,,„, gentleman ":; y.^' ,;! ^ :;:^:;^;;; ^T ;:::;;,::;- ?^;f:: -;;:- -^eotbnt.n.,,h..oine,ined\i:;^^ '^•t the people show bv .heir vo,^^ o i f ^ -n'.u.eessarily la,^e. ,1 • I .1 - ^^^it's, or in some othei' wa\- tfrK fh,.,- 'Innk theno so, and i, is consistent with the noliov , t ili. " ' <.'iinL upon Tiie counter iturik' r* ; of individual onii.ion • it t V " ^ '"^ '^" expression 42 t of tho ^lol.e eve- p.,.Kse,sHO