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Les diagrammes suivants illustrent la mithode. 1 2 3 1 2 3 4 5 6 %:Qi®^5S^ :A.i ^;^vi::^^^XQ4 1 ^ SYNOD OF < ( ♦ ingMcsH ! DI3SENT AND COMPLAINT -OF- 2 il!i. i^iviii :Mit( Hi]LL, A\i) Others AGAINST A DEOrSION OF THE PKESliYTEHY OF TORONTO, IN THE MATTER UF Printed Papers for use of Parties and General Assembly. CASE RKFKHUED SlilPLICITER, BY SY.N()D, TO p GENEllAL ASSEMBLY. PiKpcrs Nvriibemd from A. to J., Indunivc 't^^ "Tf* ■ ( • Y SY^fOD OF DISSENT AND COMPLAINT _0F IttR. OAVID ilIirCIIELL, A\D OTHERS I AGAINST A DECISION OF THE PRESBYTERY OF TORONTO, 1 IN THE MATTER OF E, B. S» MAQ^OWNEhh, B. P. -•—•-♦♦»-< Printed Papers for use of Parties and Generai Assembiy. [ CASE REFERRED SfMPLICITER, BY SYNOD, TO GENERAL ASSEMBLY. ' ^«» Papers Numbered from A. to J., Inclusive. OBIIiLIA: PRINTED AT "THE EXP08IT0B" BOOK AND JOB OFFICE, ^876. T' ■* ( [i ; /. X "'\ ■> .,.■ W * > 4 1 ' . ' '• - . ■■•'^t '':. ■ Xr. V,. i:'^w»/i)A .H\^v,.:i^^'.K \f^in\\%y t,:\,, rv,r.;-;' 4 , ■^,^.(:.^ ■■■'^ ..U, , ;0'r vi*.>ilYfJ' Ya^ .iLvnvsfj'ifv::.- : ■.■i.;:i^iv'-'ut% 5|<^.A- •: n-r .3K f ?J:Ut.:j:.^^M(,H 4B»~-^»;. V. ..H.'OV.A ^,iO" . ( - ,;'•(■ 1 1 A AT TOROJVTO, and within Knox Church, .; tliere, Thursday, the fourth day of May^ one thousand eight hundred and seventy^ six years ; which time the Synod of To- ronto and Kingston met, and ivas duly - constituted. Inter alia, The Court proceeded to consider the Dissent and Com- plaint of Messieurs D. Mitchell and others, against a decision of the Presbytery of Toronto, in the matter of Ji^r. I). J. Mac- donuell, B. D. Mr. W. Frasec, "Convener of the Committee on Bills and (Overtures, reported that all the Papers ou the case had noi ^een submitted ito said Committee^ Whereupon, on motion of Mr. A. WilsofD^-duly seconded, the Oomniittee on Bills and Overtures were requested to retire /rom the Court, for the transaction of Leeessary business, in •onnection with said Dissedit,and Complaint. Mr. R. Torrance read 'tfhe fourth Report of the Committee laint inh-^ nt .^t!j{)J'U: The parties in the case were called, when there compear* 44 Mr. David Mitchell along with tkoi>« Adhering to his Die* MINUTES Ol!^ SYNOD. x- sent, and Complaint, — and the Presbytery of Toronto, reprc- sented by Principal Caven, D.D., Prufessor W. Macluren, and Mr. J. M. King, M.A. The papers in the case were read, comprising, (1.) Dissent and Complaint of Messieurs D. MUchell ard others, with rea- sons. (2.) Answers of Presbytery to reasons. (3.) Minutes of Presbytery bearing on the whole case. (4.) Statements and communications of Mr. D. J. Macdonnell. (o.) Reports and Minutes ot Committee appointed to deal with Mr. Macdonnell, and (6.) Sermon, along with explanations of Mr. Macdonnell, as they appeared iu the Daily Globe of the Fifth November last. . . , , ' ■ . ( This last document was held as read. The hour of adjournment having come, the Synod adjourn- ed to meet at half-past seven o'clock p. M., and was closed with the benediction. ; m •. . i ') )i Extracted by John Gray, M.A., Synod Clerk, ,'M '■ I Ml ■\ I -i^Hi t And on tho satne day and in the same place, the Synod met and was constituted. ' n .' i '*' I ' Inter alia, the Synod resuined consideration of Dissent and Complaint of Messieurs D. Mitchell and others, interrupt- ed by the adjournment at six o'clock P.M. * '4 ti^j ' After reasoning, it was moved by Mr. A. Wilson, seconded* by Mr. W. Bennett, and agreed to. That the the following re- commendation of the Committee on Bills and Overtures be adopted : — 7 ; . '. ," // H-.i-^-v itt..v< > !■• ii:ti' -«••< : «'Thafc, because of the short time now at the disposal of " this meeting ot Synods and the importance of the matter "now introduced the Committee recommend (1.) That the " Dissent and Complaint be transmitted to the General Asseiu- " bly ^impliciter, with consent of parties. (2.) That parties be " insttUeted to have all papers in printed form, without delay*.*' ^f4'>rrrtr!•^ f^f^tU n**rfw h^Uflr* ff^vr esfto atU ti'i ?!»ittit^ nrfT a MINUTES OF SYNOD. JH Parties, when asked, having expressed their assent to the foregoing recommendation, were cited apud acta, to appear before the General Assembly. ♦ , . i . It was decided that the reference be fur judgment. The Clerk was instructed to retain all the papers connected with the case, io get ns many copies as were required pointed for the parties at their expense, as well as to give certified printed copies of the papers to either party, when required. Principal Snodgrnss, D.D., and Mr. A. Wilson, were ap- pointed Commissioners to explain the reference before the Gen- eral Assembly. . ,, ,,, - :,fj Extracted from the Records of the Synod of Torontojand Kingston, of the Presbyterian Church in Canada, by John Gray, M.A., Synod Clerk t •' ; it • '-' avO :.!' ( B At Toronto, and within the lecture room of Knox Churck there, the secon*! of May, eighteen hundred and Heventy-siz, the Preibytcry of Toronto met uixl wiu conMtituted, &,q, Iriteralia, the. Presbytery culled for report of con-.mitte« appointed at last meeting to confer with Mr, MncdonnoM. Ac- cordingly tho convenor tf said couiinittoo, Prt)feNS()r McLaren, read a report, and stated iherenfter thnt Messieurs David Mit- chell and William Mitchell had entered thoir dissent from tht recommendation contained therein. It was n)oved liy Mr Wm. Mitchell, seconded by Mr. Smith, and unanimously agreed, that said report, together with the motion submitted in com- mittee by Mr. David Mitchell and seconded by Mr. William Mitchell, be printed forthwith for the ush of members. It wag then moved and ay;ieed that the Presbytery adjourn to meet •gain at 3 P. M. .^ Extracted from Presbytery Minutes, ; .' « ' V • '..: U^ 'Mo^TEA.TU, Presbytery ClerH. Same day and place, at 3 P. M., the Presbytery of Toronto met again, according to adjournment, and was constituted, &c. Inter alia, the Presbytery resumed report of the committes appointed to confer with Mr. Macdonnell. It was moved by Principal Oaven, and seconded by Mr, Prin},de, That the Pres- bytery express a general approval of the report, and adopt its recommendation. In amendment it was moved by Mr. David Mitchell and seconded by Mr. William Mitchell, That consider- ing all the circumstances the matter now before the Presbytery be allowed to drop. Oh the Roll being called, 34 voted for the motion, and 14 for the amendment. The motion was ac- cordingly declared carried ; and the Presbytery decided accord- ingly. From this decision Mr. David Mitchell dissented in his own name, and in the name of all who might adhere, and protested for leave to cOinplain to the Synod for reasons to b« i^hurck ty-Bix, mittet Ac- La re n, I Mit- 3in th« Wm. greed, \i eorn- ^illiam It wng ) meek MINUTES or PRE8BTTERT. r • afterwards given in. To the above protest and eomplaiat Mensni. Wm. Mitchell, Macdonnell, £. D., McLaren and Mac- giiUTray adhered and craved extracts. . , The Presbvtery then adjourned to meet in the bame place the following day at 9 A. M., with leave of the Synod. Extracted from Presbytery Minutes, » < R. MoNTEATH, Presbytery Clirk. At Toronto, and within the lecture room of Knox Chuixit there, the third of May eighteen hundred and seventy-bii:, at 9 A. M., the Presbytery of Toronto, with leave of the Synod, met aguin, according to adjournmcDt, and was constituted, &c. Inter alia, Mr. David MitehoU proc'uced and read tUr following as his reasons of dissent and complaint in reganJ to the decision come to the previous evening in the case of Mr. Macdonnell : — 1. — That the Rev. D. J. Macdonnell, by withdra»ving his former ttttement, and sabstitntin;; tbo present one in its place, has complied with the committee's exprossed desire, which wai either to answer their proposed question by a simple aitirmative, or to give a written statei""*^ of his own. , 2. — That Mr. Macdonnell's new statement does contain a desirable adhesion to the Confessiuit of Faith on the dactriuo .of the eternity of future punishment. , 3. — That the last clause of the statement, as expressed, cannot on a fair interpretation of its meaning be said to modify the adhesion which Mr. Macdonnell gives to the doctrine in question. 4. — That Mr. Macdonnell, in the peculiar position in which he has been placed, has done everything within reason to meet the requiremenis •f the Presbytery on the point at issue. 5, — That further proceedings in this matter will only tend to aggra- vate the unforeseen consequences which have resulted from the sermon preached by Mr. Macdonnell. The foregoing reasons were adhered to by Mr. CarmichacI 8 MINUTES OF PRESBYTERY. t-tijihirrr..'* lifi;". i^s'jJd'in "Vfrtirt vil ill it'svil' Ht/T:HW;r/J'l« of King, Mr. McLaren, Mr. Mncgi'llivray, Mr. Croll, ministers; and Mr. William Mitchell and Mr. David Johnston, elders. ■'*nl The following reasons ot dissent wore also produced and read by Mr. Macdonnell in his own name,viz.: It is unreason- able to demar:d that assent to a docttine shoulil bo staU^d in the words of *others. when those words do not so exactly* ex- press the attitude of tie mind towards a grave and difficult question, such as that under consideration. A committee was appointed, consisting of Professor Mc- Laren, Principal Caven, Mr. King and Mr. Rohb. to prepare answers to the various reasans above given ; said answers to be submitted to the Presbytery at a subsequent diet. Also, on motion made by Mr. Pringle. Principal Caven, Professor McLaren and Mr, King, were appointed to represent the Presbytery before the Synod in this matter. Extracted from minutes of Presbytery, .^ ,., , . , :. U, iiloNTEATii, Presbytery Olerk, , J .:' jiu<'j); .V , ,M! ' i;.''.-i ,. IkI 9. .):. .j„i. .•...> v.'/ ■■'.I' i ^ • N.B. — Proposed change by Mr. Macdonnell in his reason of Dissent. I. For words of o^Aers, words of ' a committee.' 2. Between exac% and expi'eas, insert ' as ones oum.'—J, G., 8. C. roimim:^. .m^Mm '■if i.'lV// h'^il'} M('j '■(. iJ.lRfj •/ • . .• . ^ , ». • " ■ 4 At Toronto, anVl within tlie Lf^cture Hoora of Knox Church there, the fourth ol Mny, at nine A.M., the Presbytery of Toronto met again «c<;()idiiig to adjournment, with leave ot the Synod, and was constituted, etc. '" Inter alia, the Committee appointed yesterday to prepare answers to reasons of Dissent and Cwniplnint in the case of Mr. Macdonnell, submitted answers thereanent, which, on motion made were unanimously adopted. The following are the answers just named : — ANSWERS TO ! 'J- Reasons of Dissent by Rev. David Mitchell, and others. I The Presbytery regrets to find in the first reason of dissent a misstatement of hiet. The Committee did not re- queft Mr. MHcd«)nnell to give as alternative, "a written state- ment of his own," but a statement equivalent to a simple aftirm- ative to the question. II. Tnsi^much as th" form of adhesion given to the Con- fession of Faith, may very seriously modify its meaning, as will be shown in answer to the followincj reasons of dissent, it can- not be said to be "a desirable adhesion to the Confession of Faith/' ' •■ : III. That the clause referred to in this reason, viz : " ex- pressed as it is filmost entirely in the language of Scripture," is, in the case ■of simply adhesion, entirely unnecessary ; and it can be fairly interpreted only in the light (I) of Mr. Mao- donnell's declinature to give an afiirmative answer to the ■question as proposed by the Committee, (2) of his per- sistent adherence to this form of expression in his statements, and (3J of his interpretations of Scripture phraseology, as given in his sermon and in his first statement to the Presbytery with its accompanying notes, — interpretations which have never been disavowed. It is but necessary to refer to the ex- pressed preference for "everlasting punishment" over the phrase " eternal torments," as found in the Confession of Faith; i- .La. to UINUTES OF PRESBTTEBT. i ■astained by an assumed meaning of the Greek word aioTi?>9, which, as stated iu Presbytery, he holds to signify, " for agei of ages, possibly endless, possibly not," — an interpretation which is more fully explained in th« notes to his first state- ment. In thelis^htof the abjve considerations, the relerence to the Scripture in this connection, if allowed, would obviously •eeure for Mr. Macdonnell the samelibert}' in interpreting the langUHge of tlte Confession of Faith, as he claims in interpre- ting the same language, when used in the Holy Scriptures. This adhesion therefore to the Gonfession of Faith become* olearJy nothing more than a modified adhesion. ■>.;,. IV. The Presbytery must disclaim all responsibility for the peculiarity of Mr. MficdonneU's position referred to in this reason of dissent, nor have they been wanting in s^'mpattiy ior Mr. Macdonnell, under his perplexities ; having so directed their proceedings ns to allow him every opf)oriunity of having his views brought into harmony with the doctrine of the Church. They have, moreover, done everything iu their power, consistent with thoir obligations to maintain the truth, to give Mr. Macdonnell relief, by making provision in the finding ap- pealed against, for all such difHcukies and perplexities as do not imply non-belief of the doctiine. The Presbytery are willing to believe that Mr. Maclonnell has been anxious to meet their requirements ; they have to note, however, that Mr. Macdonnell, although corresponding with the Committee by written communications, declined to meet with the Com^ mittee appointed to confer with him, when they were not without hope, that interviews with him might have been use- ful in the solution of the case. The Presbytery would add that in their judgment, Mr. MacdonneW'a position in his last statement, as must indeed be evident from the answer to the foregoing reason of dissent, remains essentially unchanged^ ,<\\<'-^\i-r:\^ hn i.^.M ■OH'/iil,';; 'Si-ytlfJ.', "^ v. The Presbytery have only to say that in their whole proceedings in this matter, they have endeavoured to walk in (he path of duty, leaving consequences to Him in whoso hand all issues are. i:: '.u.'j .•; . ■:ti • V I . \. IIIKUTES OF 9RE8BTTEBY. ANSWER TO Mr. MacdonnelVa Reason of Dissent. 11 • ,i ) . I '.■ If the attitude of Mr. Mucdonnell's mind towards the doc- trine of the Church werQ such as the Presbytery could allow, Mr. Macdoniiell would have been able to give a categorical affiniiMtive to the question tbiinulated b^ the Committee, or a statement equivalent thereto. And that so far as expressing assent to a doctrine in the words ot others is concuinod, th» difficulty is not greater than in giving a categcrical assent t«» the questions^ proposed by the Church at ordination. It was then moved and agreed to, That the Sermon preached by Mr. Macdonnell, which originated the pi'ocess, togethf^* with his verbal explanations thereon, as reported ia the (llitbe of November 5, 1875, and also the minutes of th« Commiuee appointed to confer with Mr. Macdonnell, be trans- mitted to the Synod's committee on Bills and Overtures ; and that all parties be cited aiiud acta to appear before the Synod. Extracted from minutes of Presbytery. '■■''■' " ■' R. Monte ATH, Prc562/^cr2/ CZerA-, uii'.'/ /•hi'! ■';; ,l.v ■- '■^' ^; ■■Dnvji ;jvir'o/ti i"V' ■ ■ r ,j ■ . II. ti in. I : t.:/. ^ ' .■?■.•" ■.! ;-' •jij;:! 11(1 . ..'••■ ■.'•'. .' '-. .'-'" '. ' - "":''"/.■' ' ^ t '■■■ 'm ' i' ' I . ;.■ >...*•• •' ■ f > r ■ '.■'.' il: ::;■/}' • r '^\-u. , . - :■'- ■'.■■[. •■■■■'■ \ t 4' T^r^ i ■ ■{ » At Toronto, and within the lecture room of Knox Church there, the fourth of J^ovemher eighteen hundred and seventy- five, at 11 A. M., the Presbytery of Tof ou to met pro re nata, and was constituted, &c. The circular of the Moderator, adlresaed to the various members of Presbytery, and callino the present meeting, was read, of which the following is a true copy : — , , ' ' Toronto, 23rd October, 1875. Dear Sir, — Having received a Requisition from niembera of the Presbytery of Toronto, ret] nesting me, as Moderator of the Presbytery, ' to call u meetini; of Fre&bylery, to take into consideration the doctrine of a sermon, said to liav« been preached by the Kev. D. J. Macdonnell, in St. Andrew's Church, on the 26th nit., and what action may be neces- sary there anent,' I acc«rdinijly call a. pro re nata meeting of Presbytery for that purpose, to be held in the usual place, the Lecture Room of Knox Church, Torou a Thursday, the 4th of November ensuing, at 11 o'clock A. M. X um, yours sincerely, (Signed) ALEXANDER TOPP, • ,, ,V' , . Moderator of Presbytery." On motion made bj' Mr. Reid, seconded by Mr. Dick, th% Moderator's conduct, in calling this meeting, was unanimously Approved of. , . The 'Presbytery then proceeded to consider the matter set forth in the foregoing circular. Principal Caven was heard on i)ehalf of the Requisitionists. Mr. Macdonnell w»s also heard on his own behalf. It was then moved by Professor McLaien, and seconded by Mr. Smith, That the Presbytery, having had their attention called to the teaching of a sermon said to have heen preached by Rev. D. J. MacdonneU in St. Andrew's Church, Toronto, on the 26th September last, and having heard his explanations in reference thereto, agree to appoint a com- mittee to confer with him, and to report at a subsequent sede- runt. In amendment ib was moved by Mr. Mitchell, and sec- onded by Dr. Jennings, Whereas, from the explanations given by Mr. Macdonnell, the doctrine of the sermon in question is considerably woditied ; whereas, from the sincere and loyal at- MINUTES OF PRESBYTERY. 13 tacbment given this day by Mr. Macdonnell to the goverrment and practice of the church, we have {^'ood reason to feel confi- dence ill him; Resolved, ihat t!ie matter in discussion be now dismissed. The amendment and the motion were successively put to the vote, when 7 voted for the amendment ami 21 for the motion. The motion was therefore dechired carried, and agreeably to the terms thereof the following were appointed a committee for the purpose specified in said motion, viz.: Prin- cipal Ciiven, Professors Giegg and McLMren^ Mr. King, Mr. Raid, Mr Rohb, Mr. Carmichael of King, Mr. Aitken, Mr. Dick, Mr. Bretkenridge, Mr. Smith and the Jiloderator; Professor McLaren to bo convener. The Presbytery then adjourned to meet again in the same place at half-past seven o'clock* ,.i' ■■] Same day and place, at 7:30 P. M., the Presbytery of To- ronto mat agaiuy according to adjournment, and was constitut- ed, &C. rv • • • ft (I . , I . r * Professor McLarreu, as convener of the committee appoint- ed at the foregoing diet, submitted and read a report from said committee, of which the following is a copy : — " The commit- tee, having conferred at length with the Rev.D. J. Macdonnell, B. D., finds as follows : whi^e admitting the general correctness of the report of tlie sermon, Mr. Macdonnell stated that there were some omissions and some alterations, the general effect ol which was to lead to the supposition that he had declared his acceptance of the doctrine of the final restoration of all, and denied the eteanity of future punishment, whereas he had simply suited the difficulty he had in arriving at any conclu- sion. 2. Mr. Macdonnell stated that he felt it was unwise to speak in a way not in harmony with the Confession of Faith on this particular subject, when his own mind was in a state of perplexity, and expressed his regret tor doing so. 3. Mr. Macdonnell engaged, while seeking further light on this subject, not to contravene the teaching of the Confession of Faith on tkis point in his pu.blic ministry, and expressed his willing,Des& li-jvom B«v; 3i iKKjijoiodV/ .inotiiili-hnH\ oiLiiui to 9im;JEoh v ' u MINUTES OF PRESBYTERT, L ■! to sftate liis views on this matter to the Presbytery when 'tail- ed upon. And further, in view of the above explanations and •tatements, the committee beg to recommend to the Piesbytery for adoption the following deliverance: That the Presbytery, taking the premises into consiueration, agrees that time be granted to Mr. Macdonnell to consider more carefully the ques- tion involved, in the hope that his views may soon be brought into complete harmony with those of the church. But the Presbyteiy, recognizing the fundamental importance of the doc- , trine of the eternity of future punishment as taught in the Canfession of Faith, and the necessity of maintaining in its integrity the church's testimony thereto, requires Mr. Mac- ■donnell to report to this court as to his argument with the teaching of the Confession on the doctrine in question not later than the last regular meeting before the next General Assembly." On motion made by Mr. Mitcheli, the foregoing report ■was received. It was then moved by Principal Caven, and seconded by Mr. King, That the foregoing report be adopted, which motion was carried unauinaously, and the report was adopted accord* dogly. The diet was then closed with the benediction. m.:p ' Extracted from minutes of Presbytery, ■■i ;^■, MIU R. MoTTTEATH, Fveahytery Clerk. !il; U)!i! -n i.e.; ■;■'■■ Oi i.)i''. ' -I ' »• •.I.; .. ■}'{ At Toronto, «nd within the leciwre room o'. Knox Chared there, the fonrth of April eighteen hundred and seventy-si^^ tlie Presbytery of Toronto met and was constituted, &c. ;' '» " Ii^er alia, Pursnant to a resolvbion of Presbytery, adopt'- ••d on the fourth of November last, there was now (produced and read a paper from Mr. D. J, Maed jnnell, reportitig as t* ld« agreement with the teaching Hif the Confessieo of Faith oji •the doctrine of future punishment. Whereupon ib was moved ^ Mr. D. Mitchell, aud secoaded by Mr. W. £. McKay, That MINUTES OF PRESBYTERY. u \en gall- ons and isbytery sV)ytery, time be he ques- brought But the thedoc- it in the ng in its Ir. Mac- with the stion not i General report onded by h motion d accord- D. ,n> ry Clerk. ■{ ■>; X Churcli ^enty-8ij[, &c. • ry, adopt<- (produced ting as t* f Faith on v&H moved Cay, TlMit tho Presbytery accept the paper of the Rev. D. J. Macdonnell aa a sufficient answer in response to the requirement that he »hou!d report to the Presbytery his views on the subject of eternal punishment at this meeting of Presby ter3\ In amend- ment it was moved by Professor McLaren, and seconded by Mr. James Brown, That Mr. Macdonnell's paper be referred to a committee to report thereon to a subsequent meeting of Pres- bytery. On the amendment and the motion being i)ut succes- sively to the vote, 17 voted for the amendment, and 9 for the motion. It was then declared that the amendment carried, — and agreeably to its terms, the following were appointed a committee to consider Mr. Macdonnell's paper and report there- en, viz.: Professor McLaren (convener), Principal Caven, Mr. Carmichael of King, Mr. Aitken, Mr. Robb, Mr. D. Mitchell, Mr. Breckenridge and the Moderator, together with Hon. J. McMurrich and Mr. James Brown ; said committee to report to next ordinary meeting, which was appointed to be held in the same place on the eighteenth current, at eleven A. M. Tht paper of Mr. Macdonnell, above referred to, was ordered to be kept in retentis. , Extracted from miautes of Presbytery, ■ •' !.<:■. tl '' " ' ''• . ■ MCsyt!! .1.1-.- :.m1 -i ■■,.'! ' B. MoNTEATH, Presbytery Clerk, > ■I : ■ ' I , )■.!■•. I 5 1 • \\ I ' Vij;' E > ;:.I7 Vil ■■.-if .\ .{\ 7oii ■'«!. ■ . I '.^. STATEMENT OF MR. D. J. MACDONNELL. "T''' »• ''Ml/: ■/,'' To the Moderator and Members of the Pres- bytery of Toronto, 'ilK .«,'»•'< I ;ii;'>i! •'" Fathers and Brethren, — At a meeting of this Presby- tery, held on ihe 4th Novemoer, 1875, a resolution was pwssed requirin. i, MACDONl^ELb. : I iLi ■i> INELL. » hi8 Presby- 1 was passed lie teaching ure prinish- B the Gene- i resolution, of Faith on ntirely bor- to it, under- same mean' y the teach- ne way put it is not a 8 a minister on to those he accepted yr not among rtory. lACDONl^ELb. STATEMENT OP MR. D. J. MACDONNELL. HOTES ON STATEMENT SUBMITTED TO PRESBTTBRT. 17 V 1.— I pubstitute the words " everlastinjj punishment," or rttther the Greek words kolasin aionion (Mji^t, xxv. 46) for ^'eternal torments," because the former is in Scripture applied to the punishment of wicked men and the latter is not. There is an obviouu distinction between "puni8hment"and" torments." 2. — The word aionioa may, of course, mean absolutely endlesa. I ilo not deny that there is stronj^ ground for a^^ign- ing to it that meaning in the passage quoted. But it has often in Scripture a mure limited signification, and it there is room for even a shadow of doubt as to whether the Saviour intend- ed Jto teach that evil would be endless, there is room to " hope," however vaguely, that God may in some way put an end to •in and sutterir^. • f/;.i ;.itrf 'till ^"jlT ivnt/ifiii. *.,(!V/ ji,/)l'lii(> vijfi.' \>Ai\(>.r\\ «lt-«, ' ■ • » .w ii«MjO'i l»i#afli j/nifctni jw'tll "^rtf Ybaii>7cy5#J ..--r^-^'' nin!i{ Jnaffimuop.'/'. ic^ iii;nd ocPF '^^^^mm^mtm Mi m ' I iffliBi mm .t ) (r>AW .'. u 1 /•'!/: i^' M ciH )•■'«. T4T or o:»uiKt:yij Tv.iv.. jir » .I'iM, , ItflKVTCA or l>rE8BYTERY AMKNT HTATIMBNT OF MR. MAODUNKSLL. 'I ( At Toronto, and within tho lecture room of Knox Church there, the eighteenth of April eighteen huudrod and sovonty- Hix, the Presbytery of Toronto mot and was constituted, Lq. Inter alia, the Committee on Mr. Macdonnell's paper sub- nitted a report on said paper, toofether with notes on tlie same, •/hich had been handed it» from Mr. Macdonnell. Tlie report \nd the notes w«re severally read by the Convener. Thoie- fter it was moved and agreed, That said docuraent.s be printed, IS also the paper aforesaid, for the use of members, and that he Presbyteiy adjourn to meet again and deliberate thereon it 4 p. m. • * •'/■I.I ..LtL'J«iJ;« Same day and place, at 4 p, m. the Presbytery of Toronto net again, according to adjournment, and was constituted &c. On motion duly made, it was agreed. That the recent paper if Mr. Macdonnell, and the report of the committee thereon, vith Mr. Macdonnell's appended notes, should be read again And accordingly they were read again by Pfofensor McLaren. Thereafter, on motion made by Mr. Meikle, it was apfreed to receive the report, and to thank the committee for their dili- gence in coonnectioD therewith. [t was also moved and agreed. That the several findings in the committee's report be taken up and dealt with seriatim, Accordingly the first finding in said report was read. Whereupon it was moved by Principal Caven, and seconded by Mr. D. Mitchell, That the Presbytery adopt the conclusion reached in the first part of the report, viz : that Mr. Macdon- nell's statement of his views on the doctrine of future punish- ment cannot be accepted as satisfactory by the Presbytery. The hour for adjournment having now arrived, tt was moved and agreed to continue in session for half an hour,wi(li ;a view to dispose of tho motion before the house. . . lAOOONKBLt. Knox Church nnd sovonty- stitutcd, jLsc. I's paper 8ub- H Oil the tuiine, The report ener. Thoie- ntH be printed, )er8, and that >crate thereon jry of Toronto jonstituted &c. le recent paper iiittee thereon, be read again assor Mcliaren. t was agreed t« 3 for their dili- eral findings in , with seriatim, 9 read. in, and seconded it the conclusion lat Mr. Macdon- f iuture punish- e Presbytery. arrived, It wa» lalf an hour,wiUl ouae. MTNUTES or I'nEsnvTKnv. Oil Thereafter it was movod in amondmont by I'lr. William ilitcholl, and seconded bv Mr. Oiirmichaol, of Markh im, That he Presbytery, fonsitJermg all the circumstances, iiceept Rev, D. J. MaciionncU's Btatomiuit, with tho subswiiiont notes, and that the matter bo now allawod to drop. VVlieri tho voi«vs were about to bo taken, a member of Court dcm'inde 1 that lIio roll be Ciilled; and tho roll was called accoidingly. It was then found that 3 votes wtjro recorded fi)r tho amendment, ind 28 for tho motion. The motion ha'uxg thus curritd, the ame was declared to be the mind of the Presbytor3\ Th« .Vesbytory then adjourned to meet again at eight P.M. ■•- . ■■'1 ,:.. .1:mJ:,« .{ , • { 10' I aV. '.. ii' * Same day and place, at 8 p.m., the Presbytery of Tc- onto mat again, according to adjoomment, and was eenstitut- •d, &c. • *'• Intar alia, The Presbytery proceeded to coDsider ih« Neeond finding in the Committee's Report aneafc tho papccof Mr. Macdonnell's. It was moved by Professor McLaren, and •econded by Mr. Smith, Resolved, in reference t.o the second part of the report, that in the judgment of the Presbytery Mr. Macdonnell's statement etnt>odies a deviation from the teach- ing of Scripture and the received doctrine of the church, whiek this court is not at liberty to allow in one of its mimster^. • "*' 'Id amendment, it was moved by Mr. Wm. MitcheK, sec- onded by Mr. Ct rmichael, of Markhara, That the second fisd- ing in the Committee's Report be not adopted. In further amendmofit it was moved by Principal Caven, seconded by Mr. demroell, That the second finding be paafefl 4>Yer in the meantime, and that the Presbytery proceed tQ4«A- ivder the third finding. •- At this stage Professor McLaren, with the leave of his see- «nder, withdrew his motion. AUo, Mr. Mitchell, with Ica^t' «f his seconder, withdrew hiB amen dmeot. ^ ^i^ MINUTES or PRE8BYTIBT. , -nf It was then moved and agreed that the next ordinary , ttieeting be appointed to be held iu tiie same place on the first Xuesday ol May, at 11 a. m. Closed wiih the benediction. Elxtractcd from minutes of Presbytery, /;^ V;^ -fy^ S\''(iiilM .pvft lU "^ I . U* MoNTKATH, PrcabyUry Clwk. ' , -/.-til Ut^i^^vtvt -iiU J/iilT .vr,. I f-i,,' HWA} U']htih*{ {d ^Hvrift? .'/.7> 7i >t-..(iSii-:,n.: 'unl-itii nl {jiaSwKf r»d^fM|in-i f.rt,a-»v '\M jftiiT .\Ut(um;*^ .tU r^i I'uhaovit ^o^oi l»-M.H.->T| '/r^i^(fiH>n'i -nU U\M bri* ,'.ni(l»u.-»(ri o^j nr i^r*, u?f W»iv.' ISd'.jiM .)M ,Oi;lA. .rfowoai Hi;r w/nfj,{jiw/ .7t,bfi« .♦ct*jmb4i&«t.iMid W'-fbiUiv*; ,i«)bH « ■,.■■■'..■■■ ' a(i) BIPOKT or OOMHITTRB Or FRRRBYTRRY OH flTATBMRMT OP MR M AODOnNBlb. V- Tho Commiltoo up[)f)int(!niit.ied to Proshy- tery. Vour Cuiuuiitteo nuw Lie(^ tu suhmit the following report : — Mr. Mi:;donnoirs paper, without acp^'ptin;;; tho doctrine of futiiie pnnishin'Mit as tau|jfht in fho Confo.ssioti of Faith, dechire.s a quiIIHu 1 ay Mr. Maciionnell's «.\planations, voibal and written, three (piest ions 'vore coriNidenMl, viz: — 1. Do.-.s Mr. Macdon** nell's pip(.*r einbudy a stateniiint of views which tho Presbytery shouhJ acc('f)t as (ia* ,(ftctoiy ? 2. U there is indicated in said paper a (h^viation from the received doctrine of the church, it it of such a nature as can be toh'rated in one holdini» the office of a gosprl minister ? 3 What action should be taken by the Presbytery in the |)remises ? In dcaliuLj with the fiist question, your Cornnuttee -/bserve that the point raised by Mr. Macdon- nelTs se'-mou of last September, out of winch the difficulty" arose, has respect to the duration ot future punishment. Th© view which that diicour-se seemed to countenance u that at i»ome future period, sin ami purii>hnient shall come to an end. and all God's intelli,i,'ent moral creaiurt-s be restored to the Divine favour. Those who maintain this view necessarily hold that such*expressi II. In reference to the second question, your Committee cannot regard the position taken by Illr. Macdonn^l, viz: that the Scriptures do not reveal the proper eternity of the pun- ishment of the wicked, but leave it open for us te hope that nil may be ultimately saved, as on^ of those miflor deviations from the truth which the Presbytery is at liberty to overlook, in one of its ministers. Your Committee on the cantrary, believe that the eternal punishment cf the wicked is a doctrine clearly taught in the Holy Scriptures, not merely by the phrase " Everlasting Pun- ishment," and parallel expressions applied to the doom of tho ungodly, but by a great variety < f representations, which should leave no "room for even a shadow of doubt," in the minds of those who bow to the authority of God's Word. II . ,„.,-*. -„-...v»-^-« » I •■ 24 REPORT OP COMMITTEE. Your Committee cannot but regard the view which Mr. Macdonnell cherishes as tendinfj to weaken the sanctions of God's law, and detract fiom the power of those appeals by which the gospel is urged upon men; 'ind they cannot but view as perilous to the best interests ofuiankind, any teaching which is fitted to lessen the weight of those awlul sanctions, by which God has enforced the precepts of His Law, and the invitations of His mercy. >i ■ r- ■ I ; t ■ Your Committee also regard Mr. ITacdonnell's position as inconsistent with the acceptance in its ititegrity ot that system of doctrine which is embodied in the standards of the Presby- terian Church in Canada, ic Your Committee may add that it is not competent for any of the subordinate courts ot the church, even to entertain the question ot granting, by tht*ir own authority, a relaxation of the terms of Ministerial Communion. Your Committee therefore arc of opinion that Mr: Mac- donnell's statement embodies a deviation fi-om the teaching of the Scriptures, and the received doctrine of the Church, which the Presbytery is not at liberty to allow in one of its ministers. ■(" ■ i'ti','.'t' III. In reference I o the third question your Committee recommend the PresV)ytery to appoint a Committee to deal with Mr. Macdonnell, with a view of ascertai!:ing whethet there is any prospect of his sentiments being brought into harmony with those ^'the Church, and to report to the Presbytery at a subsequent sederunt. 3t..ft «MjO(i •i :•:« 'Jv^y It i.jo Ji ov.rvjl il/.i Ar:J-\ln '-.ill ii. • iMfjrfi-i Ail which is respectfully submitted, i ' :•;;!;' ' vi -i ilj; Wm. McLaren, Convener. imiS^t-. -Mii ;i.ii;i •,; Wi ;.[ ^V ,.- (jK'; _ _ , ■I'f.' tV irl'MMij Jiiirf^i '.Hl[i'.t..ij i\ ;.i U')/r)in - :[< \ ,.,.. ifiiii,...,.M,,j , i-ifr 111 ffjoob mh oi Ivn^nix siiou^.yv^yA'y ^>i!);;(;;| Uwu '\i-\ tm(r?; -'^i^^riii.'",JI^(i«ob \i -nvhi.Ar. H xi'r/ t i«'i ujv'i.f" \>u •,. /•.•'iV.iiioii* \^'wlf iiiKfi)''ki '^iviodlnhfxii « j v'/ix.i udv/ -tu.i^ U^ f'bnftu .(ui It . f- 6 (2) ^ T J C." ! t.^;' niPOBT OP THE COMMITTEE APPOINTED TO CONFER WITH REV D. J. V,.,.., . . r . ' . 1 , . ,, MACDUNNELL. . ' . ,,. ., Tho Commit'e Imvino rejard to theu'teat importance of the fJnctrine of the Clinrch the idea of Restoration, or tr> tiiiil of the {inniiiii.ition of tlie wictted, feels that no deci>«ioii of this cast' ciin be natlBfuctury in whiuU that ductrio* shall be ill any way coiiiprtiuiisud. ; ..,,,.,. Tlie committee is also very desirons that no injustice shiill be done to Mr. Macilonnell in inipmini; to hiin .my modification of opinion — any Attitude towards the sttuultud.H which he does nut himself auk auw ledge aa truly representing his position. ^ With regard to the doctrine concerned, or indeed any doctrine, the foUowinji attiliides of mind m^y be clearly distin;;uislu'd: (a ) That o! unembarias'td acceptance, (b.) That of vijection. (c ) 'J'hat of sus- pense; in which the evidt-iice/or and the evidmcn against 8«'em so nearly balanced, that it is felt to he inipoaailije to decide one v\iiy or another. — (d.) Tliat in winch the evidence for a doctrine is seen to be of snch weight that file mind, notwithstanding,' difticnlticf', 'vhtrtherin ci>nnection with th« evidence, or in connection with the relation of the doctrine to other doctrines, rcallj' eiu braces it as true. ' ~ ' " The Committee havinir respect to certain verbal statements, made by Mr. Macdonncil to rhd Presbytery, deem?d it ii>iht, in order to re- move all possibility of mi.scono' (itiytery that the proceedings in the matter should be allowed to terminate. This morning the Committee received the ffdlowinc: amended state- ment from Mr. Macdotniell, in favour of which he asked leave to have ' all pri^vious statements t«» be withdrawn: " In reira'd to the Eternity of ^'Ftiture Punishment J > arrived at no ctmclnaion at variance with * the doctrine of the ( uro . 1 do n'.*t coaceal that I have difficuit M k Sd lySPORT OF COMMITrEE. "and perplexities on the subject; but I adhere to the teaching of ihm " Confession uf Faith in regard tu it, expressed at it ia almost entiralj " }a the lan^unge of Scripture." Your Commitlee would be prepared to recommend the acceptance of this document were it not for the last clause, naniely, " expressed as it ia almost entirely in the language o' Scripture^') which is susceptible ol a meaning which seriously modifiea the adhesion declared. With the view of securing, if possible, the withdrawal of the clause, the Committee requested an interview with Mr. Macdonnell, but failed to obtain it. The Oommictee believing that there should be no raisun* derstanding on this point, bes; to recommend to the Preabytery that Mr. Macdonnell be requested either to withdraw the last clause of thia amended statement, or to give a direct auSf^er to the question embodied in the foregoing portion of this report. In the event of this clause beini; withdrawn or a simple affirmative being given to the question, the Committee recommend that the pve- eeedinsi, ;;;)>; '^rii ^ . !:■■>( ■fl'' '. .: , , ) v •,■•■ li ■. ^ i '. ; -•':,;.; irv.ii ^ I'T • ^ ) Y^'in-fUi !irfl .>; },i./;m'>-j ri •' iMfMVi'.iTti/. •,,} .li VI ... H •fi.l- .'"1/ ifj >'« rii''i 'j-iioiu-f ij:. .(''(W-fM.*-* .U.<. -M *,\i! i.'H •* f H T> I , 'v 1 •/ •» ■_ kasmaa orcoMMimsE apfointkd to coxfbb with mr. o.j.MACDoxsiELf. Knox Church Vestry, 25th April, 1876 At 2 o'clock P.M., the Committee appointed to confer with Rev. D. J. Macdonnell met, and was constituted with prayei by Mr. King. i , ■»• • , •. .'.'/ Sederunt, — Revs. Prof. McLaren, Convener, in the chair Drs. Topp and Prin^npal Caven, King, Mitchell, Reid, Car michacl, Robb, with Messrs J. McMurrich, James Brown am Wm. Mitchell. The Convener reported that he had notified all the mem ben of the meeting, and that he had written to Mr. Macdon iiell, requesting his presence. The Committee after waiting for about one hour without the appearance of Mr. Macdonnell, or any word from hiua, ad- iourned te meet again at the call of the Convener. ^^, Extracted from minutesof Committee's proceedings by J. Gardner Robb, Secretary. ,rf p; ; ; r ; Knox Church Vj'STry, 27th April, ]87(J. , At 2 o'clock p. M„ Committee appointed to confer with lliev. D. J. Macdonnell met, and was constituted with prayer by Principal Caven, D.D. ' Sederunt, — Revs. Prof. McLaren, Convener, in the chair ; Drt. Topp and Principal Caven, King Mitchell, Kobb, with Messrs. Brown and Mitchell, elders. The Convener intimated th- ^ he had called the Commiite* tbgfetherin consequence of a let.cr and enclosed statement re- reived from Mr. Macdonnell. Mr. Macdonnell's letter explain- / 28 MINUTES OF COMMITTEE. ed that no comtnunication lux] rejuihefl tho committee fron him on tlie 25tli insfc , o'vini^ lo the miNtJiki! of liis mej»sen£fer in takin^T his cumiiiunicution to Knox Colle^^e instead of Knox Ohurcli. The Committeo proceeded to the consideration ©f the fur- ther statement now forwarded l»y Mr. Macdonnell, . . Whcreiipon it was moved by Mr. Kincj, seooned to ask Mr. Macdor.nell to answer the question proposed by sub-committee in their report, or to £;ivti in bis own wuids a statement equivalent theretf'. MINUTES OF COMMITTEE. 20 Committee «rlj«»urneJ to meet at 9 o clock same evening, and WttH Uiamistied wiih benedictiun. Extracted from minutes of Committee's proceedings hj J. Qaiioner Uo^b, Secretary. ' ' ' , ' - : ' ■ < 1 ' , ■ : I f :■.•■,.•, \ ,>,t, 111.,. , , .■(■ . Knox Church Vestry, Ist May, 1876, •"t At 9:30 o'clock P.M., Committee m tliia case ngnin met, and was uunsiituted with prayer by Kev. Wm. Rtid 1). D. Sederunt, — Revs. Prof. MfLnren, Convener in the chair ; Dn*. Toppand Reid. King and Rubb, with Messrs. Hon.^J. Mc- l&urricb, Jas. Brown and Wm. Miichell. ,_^ , ,,^,|,. _^^^ ,^^ ' i Letter from Rev. D. J. Macdonnell, with another state- ment enclosed, were read. ,< {i yi- u roV/tl- r; -l h..t!'.'i Moved by Mr. King, seconded by Mr. James Brown, and agreed to, That Dr. Topp be requested to call wiih Mr. Wm. Mitchell on Mr. M.iLdonnell, slate to him clearly the Commit- tee's objections to his stattment, and press upon him the de- sirability of his giving a categorical aii»wer to the Committee's question, or making a stateaunt of his own equivalent thereto; and that the Committee adjourn to meet again to-monow morning at 9 o'clock a.m.. " " ,; » i^ ^f" i; :^iijiuj jndi fvtJ.' Committee dismissed with benediction. Extracted from minutes of Committee's proceedings by >'^<>U'i'^%H' .amiit.m^'iiiAQ , i* J. Gardner Robb, Secretary. >: \ I JW MINUTES OF COMMITI'EE. , .. . , ^ -» i"(: .• . Knox Church Vestry, 2iitl Mjij^ 1876. At 9 A.M., the Conimitteo appointed to confer with Rev, ). J. Macdonncll mot, and was constituted by the Convener. - j; Sederunt,— ^Q\fi. Prof. McLaren, Convener, in tlie chair; r. Topp, Reid and Principal Caven, King, Robb, Mitchell, Jannichael, with Messrs. Hon. J, McMurrich, Jaujcs Brown, nd Win. Miichell, elders. The Convener received and read a letter from Mr.Macdon- aell, declining an interview and enclosing another statement. In regard to said statement the -Committee agreed to re- quest Mr. Macdonnell's personal attendance for the purpose >f receiving explanations of part of it^ and of obt^iioing tb« withdrawal of the last clause. - -^ Mr. Wm. Mitchell left to request Mr. Macdonnell's attend- ince. On his return Mr. Mitchell reported that Mr. Macdon- nell respectfully declined to appear before the Committee, as • in his present state of mind he did not think his appearance would result in any good; and that Mr. Macdonnell desired to withdraw all his previous statements in favour of the last. Report to Presbytery was then drawn up. Moved by Mr. King, seconded by Mr. Brown, That the report as read by tb.» ^nvener bo adopted and forwarded to Presbytery. Moved by Mr. D. Mitchell, seconded by Mr. Wra. Mitchell, Chat the statement from Rev. D. J. Macdonnell herewith sub- nitted be considered satisfactory, in as much as it does ool lecessarily modify the adhesion now given, and understanding ithat it is not intended to do so, and the Committee recomi^end (hat further proceedings in the rnatter be dropped. On divi- sion two voted for amendment, and five for motion. Messrs. D. and W. Mitchell asked ap■•• f ;-r.<.j;) SBCOKD STATEMENT OF MB. MAC.'DONNKLI.. 1 'r?! 2o ^/ie Moderator and Members of the PreS' hytery oi Toronto, Fathers and Bbethern, — Tnaamuch as it. lins been in- dicat'v.l that my position may still be misiindcrstood, notwith- ■tandino the explanations given before the Presbytery, nnd being desirous to have no construction put on m^' words other than they wera intended to bear, I have thrown my statement into another form, which I desire to substitute for the prcvi- «iw one. The doctrine of the eternity of punishment is still lo my mind involved in great difficulties, arising partly from certain texts of Scripture, the most obvious interpretation of which neems to be that sin shall at some time or other close, and partly from general considerations of the character of Qpd, as revealed, of His infinite righteousness, in all His moral creatures; Hi* infinite wisdom, whose plans cannot be baffled; His mercy, which endureth forever, — considerations which, taken by them- selves, would form a ground for hope that God would find ou-t «ome way of putting an end to sin and suffering. On the other hand there is one way of deliverance, and one only, pointed out, and concerning those who reject thin way there are awfully severe statements, especially from the lipsj of Christ Himself, which seem to jshut the door of hope, and which lead me to say that I do not consider ifc a part of my message as a Minister of the Gospel, to hold out the hop* «i future pardon^ to those who deliberately reject Christ. I have arrived at no conclusion at variance with the doo- trtne of the church. I do not conceal that I have some doubt whether the Church is absolutely correct in her interpretation of the statements of Scripture referred to; but I admit thai they point with almost irresistible force in thfe direction of th» endless punishment of the wicked. I have no inteolion of making this doubt a part of my preaching. v'J. Having made jthese ttaUmeptt; I baT* no difficulty in d«* h ' 82 COMMUNICATIONS. daring my ftdhoaion to the tenchingsof the Confeasion of Faith on this point, iho inoie espocia!'}' as. tho lan;;uage used is aJ- moet entirely Lorrowed iroui Scripture. 1 am, yours respectfully, D. J. Macdonneli. THIRD STATEMENT OP MR. MACD9NNBLI.. To ihe Moderator and Mambers of the Fres- ; hijtery of Toronto, '" < Fathers and Brethren, — Innsmuch as it has been in- dicated lliac.*)iiy |)i>siti()n may still be inisiinderstood, I have thrown my statement into another form, which I desire to substitute tor the proviuua one. • . • . ■ '\'.'v ' " ' In regard to the eternity of future punishment, I have ar- rived at no roiiciuision at variance with the doctrine of the Church. I do not conceal that I have some doubt whether the Church i.s »ibs )huely cor.eut in her interpretation ol cer- tain passasTCS of Scripture, which, nevertheless I aihnit, point with almost irresistiule force in the direction of the endless punishment of the wicked. I have no inteutiou of making this doubt a partof my pieachii;g. , ,, Having made this statement, I have no difficulty in de- claring my aiJhesion to the teaching of the Concession of Faith on this point, the more especially ais the language used is al- .. nf>Mb eutiieiy borrowed frum Scripture. .UlJJ.y,; ,.,,...,,; , , f,, ,ii i.,,'tiM.i 'i \'itii'\->f ' t, i:\ i'<\i'A ill!'! .llyWU"' oiaiA If .-•,..,; ^am. Fathers and Brethren. . , ^ _. ^^ .^^ ^^ V.» fri>r.To,.:i'.i on ovm/1 I. .bM:.{- ^ .. .. .,,, aU.'t f?*? „i.M, „ . Yours reapectfuily, . "•5f(i a' ,/?[.•' m:f. r.r. «rrr n } --, » ^- . D. J. Macdonnell. .:»* sj.- *v)M,/.iij}-» ff(I Sufi's I ^ iT^tU'^J;«v^ ;f>*>0 FOURTH STATEMENT OF MR. MACDONNELL. 33 »r Faith i is al- St. Andrew's Manse, Ut May, 187G. To Jiev. Prof. McLaren, Convenor of Committee. Rev. and Dear Sir. — I have carefully consulored the draft re- port of tho Coniinittoo and the objections to uiy abbreviated state- laeiit conmuinicatcd to me by youisolf, I withdraw tho first paragr.ijjh of the said statement, inaamuch as it is hold to cotnpromiso tho Presbytery by virtually re-capitulating a statement which tiiey havo pronounced unsatisfactory. This pie- amble is not essential, and I do not wish to throw needless obstuclos iu the way of a harmonious adjustment of tho matter. Tho remaining paragraphs (tho word "absolutely" being omitted, if the Committee deem it objectionable) express my state of mind on the subject more exactly than tho words used under paragrapii *'(d)' in the Committeo's draft report. I may state that they were written after I had seen a memorandum kindly drawn up by Piincipal Caven, containing tho following expressions, to which they are in my opinion, ulmoet equivalent. 1 have arrived at no conclusion on the subject of Future Pun- ishment at variance with tho doctrines of the church, the evidence in support of this doctrine seems too strong to be set aside. I con- fess, however, to the existanco in my mind of diHiculties in connec- tion with this subject, which I have not been able to remove. I am obliged to close in haste. I have been very busy all after- noon with my intending communicants. ^ Yours faithfully, D. J. Macdonnell. PROPOSED STATEMENT. In I'egard to the eternity of future punishment, I have arrived at no conclusion at variance with the Church. I do not conceal that I have some doubt whether theChuixsh is(absolutely)correct in her inter- pretation of certain passages of Scripture, which, nevertheless, I admit, point with almost irresistable force in the direction of the endless punishment of the wicked. I have nojinteution of making this doubt a part of my preaching. llauing made this statement, I have no difficulty in declaring tny adhesion to the teaching oi the Confession of Faith on this point, the moi-e especially as the language used is almost entirely borrowed from Scripture. J(l) THE IlEl'OUT OF THE SERMON. Aa tlio ciiao nndnr cnnsidcr.iUon (vmro frdin tlio publisliod r('ii uiir ruiKkra: — Tlio text was tivkon from lloinans v., friiin the I'Jth voroo to tlio end of tho Clmplor. IK' l)og;iu by oxponiulinff tho pixsHa-^'o at soiuo lcri;;t!». Tlio tiirnini; point of it was tlio ro|)n!sontatiou in tlio 14th \or8o nf Atlam as tliu tyim «»l ilit^ inmiii;,' niH«, .loHUs Christ, fii tho I'Jth iiiid 21st Vfrsfs. which Mori' !iiititli(HO«, tho points woro statoil that, as tlio sin of .\on all iiioii, ho tho riu'htooii.Hiios.s of (Jhrist hroii'^lit otornal lifo to idl iiiiMi, and in tho IHth, Kith, and 17th vorsim thoro wan a contrast Hlatod to hIiow that tho frooj yift liy Christ was <,'i'oator beyond all c iinparisoM than tho transi,'ro.sHion by Adam. Soino |Kiint» vrvro (Hiitn Ch-ar - tii.st, tliat sin ia iinaltorably linked with doalh, rii,dit(!onanes.s with lifo. Thoro wuro tho livo words — sin, death, graco, rij,'htoonflne.s3, life. Sin and doatli, tho two ovil powcra, on tho oiiu .sido; viL;hti'()!Hnos.o tlmt Hiich is tlui c.isd. Observe, it iH imt u hare h';,'al imputation of Ailaui'i! HJn t'l n)on who had no »harn in it. Tluit wo coiiM init lioliovo — it wonhl ho inijnHf. It irt an iiiii)ntali()n of fiin to nion who pliaro tho natnro ul Adam. Tho puison that is in thu root cmnoH ont inevitably in tiio loaf — tho ninith the jud!,'mont; that tho sanctilication is co-oxtonsivo with the sin. And it seems to say that there will bo a miLjhty preponderance of tho i,'ood aecnrod by Christ over the ovil inherited from Adam. Just read tho IHtli rerso; when you .say that 'judf,'niont'can)o upon all men to condomnation, you don't oxci'pt nnyliody; and when I'aul says, ' lli'diteonsnoss c.amo upon all men to sanctilication,' why should you except any? 1 state tho •]ue3tion boldly, for this is tho question wo have to face; and 1 just sim- ply did't preach on these verses two or three Sunday's ago, because 1 didn't know exactly what to say on the point. I'lain men reading these "Words without any theology in their lieads, and witlu)ut any preconceived notions, will say tliat it means that all men who became sinners through Adam, are to lie made ludy through Christ; candidly, that it is what it does mean. I reiterate that there is to be a mighty preponderance of UockI over evil; for if through the ono transgression by one the many died, much moro sliall tho irift of thv. grace of God abound to tho many. Where sin multipliedj grace did much more abound. Are these state- ments consistent v.ith tho cherished views about the saved and tho lost respectively, i\bf)ut the etoruRl blessedness of the saved and the eternal misery of Hie lost?" He quoted tho opinion of tho Rev. Dr. Hodire, that the saved would be infinitely more numerous than the lost, and asked, * How does Dr. Hodge get that fact? With tho expectation that there •will be in the future a time when men will be nearly all righteous, when tho knowledge of th-e Lord shall cover the earth. That is ono agsump- •® REPORT OP THE SERMON.' tion, and the other is that all who die in infancy will be saved. This is a sad way of bringing in the promise. Does it not lead us to cry out, Uh, that all the wicked had died in infancy!' We see men going down to death, dying as drunkards and licentious libertines. Oh that these men had died in their mother's arms! And then the terrible question comes, How do y©u know that all infants are saved? The Word of God does not say it any more than it says that all men will be saved. Now we must face this question fairly, as men who believe in Scripture, in trod, in righteousness and in love." After referring to the question of baptism, and expressing his belief that baptism had nothing to do with the salvation of infants, remarking that the idea was too monstrous for him to entertain for a moment that God would condemn any human be- ing to eternal infamy for the want of a few drops of water on its fore- head. He proceeded, "I believe that all infants will be saved— not be- cause I find it in the Scripture, for 1 don't, but just because it seems to be in accordance with God's love aiiid God's grace, and with what Jesus Christ said about little children coming to him. It is not because child- ren are not sinners; we know they are. Here is the question ;— Can God, through all eternity, look complacently upon not only the misery but the BUI of the lost? I h«ard a good man say not long ago— speaking of this very matter— of how it would eii'ect the redeemed in Heaven to know that there are thousands of men suffering in hell— that wo, who are going about our ordinary occupations in this city, do not have our happiness interfered with because we know that there is a certain number of per- sons in prison. No! and why not.? Because we have not enough of the love of God in our hearts. But how about God? We may forget, and eat and drink, and be merry, while there are souls there pining in wretch- edness. But how about Gcd? You talk about prison walls that will shut in men's spirit from the Father of Spirits? Ah, no, and there is a land father whose son is languishing in the Central Prison! He does not forget— while we are all forgetful— that his boy will have to be there for months and years, before he will get into the sunshine again. Can the Father of Spirits, think you, forget His poor lost ones wlio are gnash- ing their teeth in hell? Is sin stronger than God? Is the devil stronger than God? Is evil co-existent and co-eternal with the good? These are the questions. I don't say no to them, and I won't say yes, because if that 18 the case you see you have two Gods, and the evil God is just as the good God. No, I am just stating to you my difficulties about this matter of the eternity, not of punishment, merely, bnt of sin— my diffi- culty of understanding how the Omnipotent, all loving, all gracious God, can make beings who are to sin against Him to eternity, and whom he cannot conquer; that these men must go on, stronger than God, rebelling against God, and never able to be subdued by His power. Is that the teachino of Scripture? If so, 1 will accept it— little as I can understand it— I was going to say believe it. I have said it here before, and I say it again, there are some statements in scripture that seem to me almost to shut out the belief of anything but eternal misery— eternal punish- +^^"*' ■u'^'*^^-' ^®*' ™® ^^^^ * ^®^^ passages— not with a view of explaining them, but with a view of having you christian people taking them home and thinking about them and finding out what you believe. / REPORT OF THE SERMON. ^ I" Matt- xii, 32. —And whosoever speaketh a word afj^ainBt the Son of Man, it sTiall be for^^ven him, but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come. Matt. XXV, 46.— And these shall go away into e\ erlasting punishment, but the righteous into life everlasting. Mark ix, 43. — And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off ; it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two hands to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched. " While that is figurative language, the word ' never' is not figura- tive. II. Thess. i, 9. — Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the • iweaence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power. "' Everlasting destruction r They are awful words, whatever they mean i f > .■ ■., ■ t , 1 1 , ^. . i ^ ; tM, ^ j, pi,?..' i •.* ^ .» -i,. i i y :■*'*•' . I. John V, 16. — If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, lie Hhall ask, and he thall gdve him life for them that sin not unto death. There is ■a sin unto death, I do not say that he shall pray for it, "Just like the unforgivable sin again! There seems to be aline iiGyond which if men pass, even their brethren should not pray for them. "Why, this is terrible 1 '•".•, .(•■"'; Jude 6. — And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, He hath reserved, in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day. , ... ) ■• :- .■',■'' U.') !■": . .>>■■ O.' I ,:\.rir.: . ■- " Well, that doesn't refer to men, but to angels ; and if punishment may be eternal in one case, it may be in the other. These are the Btrongest passages I know on that side. Let ni see some on the other side ; for I say that the teacliing of Scripture is not clear and unmistak- able on this point. It is not such as to give any one the right to say dogmatically — 'This is true-, and that is false.' In Rom'-ns xi., alter a long argument about the Jews and the Gentiles, and about how the fall of the Jews was for the good of the Gentiles, and about how the gather- ing in of the Gentiles was to be for the good of the Jews, and all Israel was to be saved, we read (32n.d verso), ' For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, tliat He may liave mercy upon air — the mercy is As wide as the belief. This is the natural interpretation ot these words ; — I, (Tor, XV, 22.— For as in Adam all die, even bo in Christ shall all be m»de aliv6. 25th verse,— For He must reign till he hath put all enemien under his feet, the last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. 28th verse.— And when all things shall be subdued unto Him, then shall the ■Son also Himself be sabjected unto Him that put all things under Him, that God may be all in all. * Who could read these words If he bad not those other pass- ;S8 REPORT OF THE SERMON, nges about eternal punishment and fire, and the gnawing worm, with- Oiit thinking that by-and-bye the time will come (as the Scriptures plainly teach there will be such a time) when all things will be put under Jesus Christ, when Ho will have put all enemies under His feet — all rule, and authority, and all power that are against Him ? Does that mean shutting thbm up in hell to sin and disobey for ever and ever ? \Vhat does ' conquering enemies' mean with Christ if not transforming them into friends? Phil, ii., 9, 10. -r- Wherefore God hath hi^jhly exalted Him, and given Him a name which ia above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knoo ahould i!")OW, of things in heaven, and tilings in earth, and thinifs imder the earth. " Well, unless there is a great qualification elsewhere in Scripture, ■ there is coming a time when latterly every knee in the Universe (you , isee how strong the statement is — on earth, over the earth, and under the earth, that is, in hoU) shall how and acknowledge Christ as Lord. tu Hebrews ii, 9, it ia written tiiat * He by the grace of God should taste ii;** > REPORT OF THE SERMON. eg er ill nt ? At last— far off — at last to all. t' • ;, , - ■ I And every winter chan^je to spriii^r. ;, , ; fcjo nina my dream, but what am I ? ... An infant crying in the night. And infant crying for the li^'ht, And with no lannuaire but a cry. :■ • •n''5!»1 The wish, that of the living whole ■.. No life may fail beyond the >;rave, Derives it not from what w'e have . . The likest God within the soul ? ' Are God and Nature then at strife, ' That Nature lends such evil dreams? So careful of the type she seems, . So careless of the single life. 1 . That I, considering e . erywhere • Her secret meaning in ner deeds, And finding that of fifty seeds She often brings but one to bear. I falter where I firmly trod, And falling with my weight of cares Upon the great world's altir stairs That slope thro' darkness up to God. I stretch lame hands of faith, and grope. And gather dust and chaff, and call To what I feel is Lord of all, , ." . ' ' ' ' And faintly trust the larger hope. " These lines of Tennyson come homo to many a poor soul, as if there was a sweet consolation in them, and it says, ' Oh, if that only were God's truth V and I say 'Amen' to that. I think the Christian Church, instead of putting into its Confessions of Faith that there is to be eternal punishment lor the majority of the human race, would be wiser to sit down in a devout posture and study Bomans and Ephesians and Colossians. Oh, that a greater Augustine would arise, and show how these apparently conflicting passages can be reconciled 1 I know that there have been good men who, when they considered these things, could see nothing but a great darkness about the face of God. * But, oh,' you say, 'this is dangerous.' I caanoi help that — if it is true it is not dangerous. * But it is not in the Confession of Faith.' I do not care ; I am not bound by the Confession of Faith when it conflicts with the Bible, as you know. The question is, What is the truth of God ? Let US get that and live and die on it. But do not let us be too ready to dogmatize ourselves, or to accept the dogmatism of others as to what is the truth, no matter whether it has come d-^wu from the Greek fathers, or the Roman fathers, or the Catholic Churcli, or the Protestant Church. "What wo have to do with is the Word of God. Let us make it our daily counBellor, that we may begin to fathom the depths in it which have never been fathomed. I cannot help speaking with some degree of ex- citement on this subject, for I can imagine that a man could go up and ■down the length and breadth of the earth declaring to men that it is God's truth, that God must save every man before the pile will be com- plet3. * But,' you say, ' it would keep men in sin.' Not at all Crime was far more rampant when the lawS were severe than now, when the gentle laws of love are in force, for love will never make man go wrong. It is not dangerous; for observe, I have no sympathy, aod I hope none of you 40 REPORT OF THE SERMON. hayp, willi a kind of universalism which is a good deal preached now — t]iat which abolishes tlie distinction between sin and righteousness. If there is universal salvation taught in the Bible, it is not that a man can go on sinning all his life. The question is not, is there a hell — for there is ; it is not about punishment, but about the eternity of it. It is not the question of suffering for our sins beyond the grave, for we shall suffer just as surely as we go to bed to-night. But there is nothing dangerous in telling poor sinners that men will have a chance to gain life beyond the gi'ave. Otherwise, how could Christ be said to have • preached to the spirits in prison which sometimes were disobedient.' I do not think there is any danger if only you remember the cardinal principle with v/hich this passage agrees, that sin reigns unto death, that only through righteousness can grace reign into eternal life. May God purify our hearts, and make us honest, and keep us from turning the Scripture simply to meet our own views, but let us patiently thoughtfully, read these wonderful passages that I have read. And it seems to' me that if Paul could say with such a triumphant zest that where sin abounded grace did much more abound, so it seems to me that there are more as- tonishing passages, and passages more full of glorious truth, tliat declare that at some time or other the death, spiritual and carnal, shall be eter- ally dune away ; that all enemies shall be subdued to Christ, and 'every kiioe snail bow, and every tongue confess that He is Lord, to the glory of God the Father, and God shall be all in all.' " >>> •1". f !• The moderator expressed a similar desire, and called upon Mr Mac- donnell to make any explanation in regard to the sermon in questiDn i£ he desired to do so. Rev . Mk. Macdonnbll then addressed the Presbytery. He said : — I need hardly say that the matter which brings us here to-day has caused me much and anxious thought. I wish to say at the outset that, what- ever the result of your deliberations may be, T have no fear that these deliberations will be carried on in any other than a spirit of brotherly kindness. I shall be the last to raise the cry of unreasonable interference — the readiest to admit that the claims of truth are vastly more important' than any personal considerations. I have no desire to deviate needlessly from the cuiTent teaching of the Church. Nor do I wish to have any deviation exaggerated or intensified. I feel it to be necessary to guard against being drawn by the sympathy of those who approve of my utter- ances, or driven by the opposition of those who denounce them, to take a position which I would not otherwise have taken. Moreover, while willing to stand or fall by my real opinions, T do not wish to be held responsible for more than I have actually advanced. I truat I can honestly say that I am willing to be guided by "the Spirit of Truth," who has been promised to guide us into all the truth; and, further, that I am ready to listen to the counsels of truth-loying men who are older and wiser than myself. While the report which appeared in the Witness and the ^ftlail is, in the main, correct, it is only fair to myself to state that MR. MACDONNELL'S EXPLANATION ON SERMON. 41 \ there are some omissijns and aonie alterations (unintentional, no doubt,) 1 the general efiect of which is tu lead to the supposition that I declared | my acceptance of the doctrine of the final restoration of all, and denied the eternity of future punishment, whereas I simply stated the difficulty I had in arriving at any conclusion, inasmuch as the teaching of Scripture appeared to bo conflicting. It is difficult to make verbal corrections, in- asmuch as the latter portion of the discourse was not written. On two or three points I can speak with certainty, though one who speaks rapidly and extemporaneously must always be ready to admit that he may not have said precisely what he intended to say. E. g. , one of the strongest statements T made was after quoting Matt, xxv., 40 to the eflfect that I could hardly see how this passage could be reconciled with any view limit- ing the eternity of punishment — that these words of Jesus seemed to me the strongest in the Bible on that subject. Again in the sentence, "'Who could read these words * * * without thinking that by-and-by the time will come (as the Scriptures plainly teach there.will besucli a time) when all things shall be put under Jesus Christ," &c. , the parenthetical clause ought to read thus: " As the Scriptures seem plainly to teach." Again, in referring to the Confession of Faith, I used the following words, which do not appear in the report: " I do not say that the teaching of the Con- fession of Faith on this subject is unscriptural." I do not think that the following sentence in tlie report represents at all fairly the spirit of what was actually said. " I think the Christian Church, instead of putting into its Confessions of Faitli that there is to be eternal punishment for the majority of the human race, would be wiser to sit down in a devout posture and study Romans, and Ephesiims, and Colossians." If I did use such language I regret it; and I may add that there are a few other expressions — especially one regarding my relation to the Confession of . . Faith — which I acknowledge to have been unwise and improper, and which, but for the excitement of the moment, would have been uttered, if at all, in a different tone. I have the greatest confidence in making the above carrections and explanations, inasmuch as several persons who heard the sermon, and who did not at all sympathize with my difficulties, have volunteered statements which confirm my own recollection. Of this I am quite sure, thfct again and again I was cai'eful to guard myself against the positive assertion of the \niiversality of salvation. While I do not complain of being misreported to any great extent, I do regret that the sermon was reported at all. I am in no sense responsible for its publication either in the Witness or in the Mail. It is one thing t« speak out of the fullness of tno heart to one's own people, who hear other por- tions of one's teaching and can view the questionable in the light of the unquestionable, and quite another thing to send one detached sermon, and that on a difficult subject, broadcast over the land. I was not in any way consulted as to the publication of the sermon, and it is only fair tn myself to state that had I had any intention of pnblishin;^ it, it would have appeared in a diflerent shape. There are ex{)refiyions made use of which I do not like, and which I would not have pre.ssrved. Sermons prepared at the feverish rate of two per week are not usually lifc for ])iib- lication. Of course, while disowning all responsibility for the publishing of the sermon, I freely admit that the Presbytery has a perfect right to 42 MR. MAGDONNELL's EXPLANATiON ON SERMON. •loal with mo for preacliiiit,' it — nay, may oven be luulor oblif^'ation to ilo Ko. It may imt bo itiniHs to state tbat tlio ciroii instances iindur wliioli tlie loctiu'o \v!i ilc'livered. I did not l,'o out of my way to souk a i>asaa'^o on which to [)ifacl\ tiio view set f'.-itl:. .1 had l)eoM oii-^au'uu i'or souio Sun- days in uxpoiuidHu;,' the Epistlo to the llonian.^. 'J'his passau'o in the Dtli eliapter .should havo foiim-d the subject of di.scourso on tliu 2:)th Aui,'U8t, imt 1 have foiiiid so !.;M.'at didinulty in i,MviiiL; a satisfactory interpretation, tlnit, after upoudinL; a ijood deal of timo in reading,', itc, I gava up tlio tiubject and fell baciv ujxin unntlier wiiich was less ditticult. On 20th Septeud)er, after un i;iti'rval (pf an absenci from home, 1 preaclied the discourse nov,- under consider. ition, haviin,' made tlie best prepiiraiions i was able in the time to make. I need not enter into the dilhculties which tlie pa-sa!,fo presented to my mind, further than to say that it was not iiuu'i'lv *hn in,i» I. f +lw> <^v .,!•., !u';,.i. '•..n'' ...,,i "+iii. i.i-inv" clauses th; the use of the expre ision '"air' and " t!io many" in parallel iui[>i'essed me, but the t;iuni[)'iant tnno of the statemeiits conc'jrnin:^- the abuiindiu;,' of iri'iiL-e over sin. 1 was led to put toLtether a'.id to weii^h against cadi other two sets of jiassiiLV-'s in scri[)ture — the one .sot aiipearini; to teacli the eternity of pnnialiimnt, and tiie other a[i[)ear- in<,' 1 11 teach that there would come a time when alienation from God and rebellion anaiust Him should cease, wlien all thirds sliould be reconciled, when God should be all in all, .•vnd when ciMise(]ueiitiy [junishment should come to an end. I diit not deny theet-rnity of punisiiment, butexpressed doubts as to its eternity — dinibts baseil partly on L;ii)Uiids of reivson, and partly on Scripture. 1 did not say tliat the te;ic!iiu«; of the Confossicn of Faith was uusoiiptur.il on thi.s point, bur, that there wern pas&a.uea of .scripturo whicli 1 found it hard to reconcile with tlie statements of the Confession, and to which sufhcieut \vei'..,dit had not, in my jundgineut, been allowed. I exi>res;;Gd tiu3 wish that tlie doctrine of thu tiiial sal- vation of all mi;,'ht be true — (iuotin;^ the words of Teniiysui — and I indi- cated that the passa.:e quoted from the writiii'js t)i St. Paul ai)peared to iavour that doctrine. At tlie same time 1 urged just as stronijly the force of the exjiressions iu which, aiiparently, the eternity of punishment is set forth. The t^eneral canclusion which 1 drew, therefore, was that the teachin;^ of scripture was not clear and decisive (ui this point, and that [it was one on which further study and invcstiL;ation might throw light. I feel disposed to ask members of Presbytery what 1 should have done under these circumstances. Here was a dilHcult 'passage— one of a.cknowledged dilticulty — which met me in the regular course of exposition. What was I t« do with it ? Pass it over 1 or give a supurhciid explanation that left the difficulty exactly where it was .^ or make the best I could of it after honest and lUMyerful study / Tiie lasf. course was the one that I adopted, and one which still commends itself to niy S8n.?e of right. It. may be said that it was not right to si)eak on such an important matter in a '.vay opposed to the general teachings of the Churcix when my own mind was in a state of uncertainty and perplexity. That view would carry more weight with me if 1 held that a niinister is at liberty to say nothing from the pulpit except that on which no doubt can possibly be entertained. I have been accustomed, however, to hold that I was doing my people's real service in leading them to think for themselves, ajid it has been my habit to state difficulties frankly, often without even mh. macdonnell's explanation on sermon. 43 VK' attempting to solve thoni. IMoreover, T fouinl that aomo oi tlio Lestcom- mentutot's, such as Tholiiok, Liiiii,'e, and OlHliaiiHeii, .vlio liavo cloiiu iioblo service to the ciinso of Bihlo truth, and who are looked upon as safe yuidos in the interprotatiou of Scipturo, favour more or loss distinctly tht* view of restoration. One does not feul that in sucli company lie can 1),' so very far astray. I ur^e thia])niiic, not to estahliHli ilie correctnusH of tho view, but simply to show that in follow inj,' men wlio are tlio loadevti of evan- gelical thoiit^lit in C4ormany, one dons not necessarily t*.Khil>it any lack of modesty. To tlio iianius alro:i(iy ([uotcd may bo ad(h-d tiiat of lialdwin Brown, one of the best i)roachers and writers amony Euulish Nonconfor- mists. These names are of conscqnenco as indicatiui,' that men who stand hi.,d\ in tiie Evanc^'elical Churches are upholders of tho view sug- gested. It is less ami loss the case that the Christan people receive with unqualiljod assent all that is taut,'lit from the pul[iit. Tlu'y are accus- tomed to weij^li and discuss evei'y oi)inii)n. advanced. There is all the more reason, tiiereforo, why a minister should take them into his confi- dence. At the same time I have been almost forced, Ity the (H)inions of many wlioae judgment is better than mine, to tlio conclusion that it was nnwiso to speak as I did on tliis particular subject when my own mind was in a state of perplexity. At the best there is little ,i.'roinid in Scrip- ture for the hoi)e, and I feel n-ioro and more the force of tho argument that wo ought not to try to make the matter clearer than God has chosen to make it in his word. Ihit it may be said, Is not tho teaching of the Confession of Faith explicit enough ? and is not that the standard by whiclx the preaching of a Presbyterian minister is to bo tested / Inas- much as accusations of dishonesty have been made against me in various quarters, on account of real or supposed deviations from the Confession of Faith, 1 am not sorry to have the opportunity of stating before this Presbytery wiiat I think aboiit my own relation and that of other minis- ters to this document. I think most men will admit that, were we now for the first time framing a Confession which was to be the test of office in the Church, the result would be a document containing fewer pro- positions than the Westminster Confession, and leaving more room for difference of opinion. The tendency of Christian thought now-a-days is to regard fewer and fewer articles as essential, and so to make it possible to embrace within one Church a larger body of believing men. Most men will likewise admit that the Church has the right to revise and amend her Confession from time to time. It might have been better for the Presbyterian Church had there been a periodical revision and curtailing of the Confession. One may be ready to assent to all that tho Confessicn contains, and yet ma> not accept all its propositions as matters of faith necessary to be believed in order to the holding of ofHce in tho Church. Reverence for the Westminster Confession on account of its antirpiity as well as on account of its undoubted txcdlence has stood and does stand in the way of any attempt at revision. Jiesides, it is felt tliat it would be a pity for any one section of the Presbyterian Church to act alone in this matter. If it is difhcult for a Church to move in the direction of change, still more difficult is it for an individual. The only plan then left open to him is to qualify the terms of his assent to the Confession. This is what I did. The words of the question put to Candidates for or- 14 MR. MACDONNELL'S EXPLANATION ON SERMON. dination in the P. C. of Oanadn, Church of Scotland, at the time of my induction, appeared to me so strinijent that I declined to answer without qualification in the affirmative. The Presbytery, after full deliberation, accepted the qualified answer. The year following the question wa» altered, and the terms uf adherence were made much more reasonable, very much to the satisfaction of a largo number of those concerned. I mention those facts by way of answering the charge of dishonesty which his been hastily put forward. 1 have been at pains not only to be,|but also to appear honest in my subscription to the Confession. 1 do not underatund, however, that other men have not precisely the same free* dom 1 have. The very use of the term "subordinate" in the basis of union indicates that there is an appeal to a higher standard, which ia supremo and final. What is the moaning of calling the Scriptures '' the only infallible rule," Ac." if one is not at liberty to appeal to them? The Confession of Faith, moreover, itself sanctions the appeal. At chapter, 1, section 10, it says :— " The Supreme Judge by which all con- troversies of religion are to be determined, and all decrees of Councils, opinions of ancient writers, doctrines of men and private spirits are to bo examined, and in whose sentence we are to rest, can be no other but the Holy Spirit speaking in the Scripture." At chapter 31, section 4, it is said " AU Synods or Councils since the Apostles' time may err, and many have erred; they are n«t, therefore, to be made the rule of faith or prac- tice, but to be used as a help in both." In what sense, then, are we bound by the Confession? Not, surely, in the sense that we are tied down to every proposition that it contains; but that we accept in ita grand features the system of doctrine therein set forth. Every deviation must be judged on its own merits. The Church must decide in each c ise whether the error is fundamental or not. It is a shallow view which is sometimes presented, that if you are not satisfied with a particular CJiurch or " denomination," yon nre free to walk out and join another. This is not the view of the Church given in the Now Testament. Nor ia it the view taken by the Confession of Faith. The Presbyterian Church is not an organization for the maintenance of the Westminster Confession, but an organization for the worship of God and for the spread of the truth. It has no right to make the terms of admission to the ministerial ofiice narrower than Christ has made them. To define the limits within which tolerance should be exercised, is almosit an impossibility, and the matter must be left to the discernment of the Church courts. When 1 -vas inducted I promised to submit in the spirit of meekness Lo the ad- monitions of the brethren of the Presbytery, and to be subject to them. This promise I am willing to fulfil to you, their successors. I leave the matter in your hands. I have no desire to disturb the peace of the Church. I have no desire for freedom to propagate error. I do desire freedom to investigate the truth. That freedom 1 seek for my brethren aa well as myself. I seek it in the real interest of the Presbyterian Church — in the interest of the cause of Christ. Professor McLaren asked what was the nature of the qualification which Mr. Macdonnell gave. Rev. Mr. Macdonnell replied that his answer was *'Yes, with the qualification expressed in the Confession of Faith itself, chap. 31 , sec. 4." / \ Mi / \ 1