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Tous les autres exemplaires originaux sont filmte en commen9ant par la pramiAre page qui comporte une empreinte d'impression ou d'illustration et en terminant par la darnlAre page qui comporte une telle empreinte. Un dee symboles suivants apparaftra sur la derniAre image de cheque microfiche, seion ie cas: la symbole — ► signifie "A SUIVRE", ie symbols ▼ signifie "FIN ". Les cartes, planches, tebieaux, etc., peuvent Atre filmte A des taux de reduction diff Arents. Lorsque le document est trop grand pour Atre reproduit en un seul cllchA, ii est film* i partir de Tangle supArieur gauche, de gauche A droite, et de haut en bas, en prenant le nombre d'imeges nAcessalre. Les disgrammes suivants lllustrent la mAthode. 1 2 3 32X 1 2 3 4 6 6 mi- Mmmta ^y^, K-T H ON -^^^=r-yr 7/^ SPEECH ^^'-^ QUEEN;S UMVERSITV tlBRARr IT HON. A. Mlf^SS IN THE v^» -5/ / %>. / ONTARIO LEGISLATURE, ON MOTION FOR CONCURRENCE IN RESOLUTIONS OF QUEBEC CONFERENCE, MARCH 7TH, 1888. PRINTED BY WARWICK & SONS, 26 AND 28 FRONT STREET WEST. The EDITH and LORNE PIERCE COLLECTION of CANADI ANA ilueerCs University at Kingston I- ^^ ON I..: l^'iT^T. .-.. 1 'W i '•''■"■ "''V'- ■ ' -^^.:. c "•^' ;,-;'* SPEECH OF HON. A. M. ROSS, IN THK ONTARIO LEGISLATURE, ON MOTION FOR CONCURRENCE IN RESOLUTIONS OF QUEBEC CONFERENCE, MARCH 7TH, 1888. ioranto: f^NTED BY WARWICK & SONS, 26 AND 28 FRONT STREET WEST. 1888. ■ fi "*iM> I '*■'• tmm » mm)tm tmm m mm .»M , ^ .^^. o> u Ho fegrettet tions for i spirit qpttestion fiis secoi n|au an alember «|ni of t sense, to ieavoi ^eciall |s muc k argi [frothy Inner bhe ho r,hef. as t Th€ ^alty s Xiterat ami ing. iught( roduci [hand jonce Ir tru; S P E E C H OF HON. A. M. ROSS, IN TPIE ONTARIO LEGISLATURE, ON MOTION FOR CONOURHENCE [N RESOLUTIONS OF QUEBEC CONFERENCE, MARCH Ttii, 1888. Hon. A. M. Ross, rising amid cheer?, said : — I think, Mr. Speaker, it is much to bo Regretted, that the hon. leader of the Opposition, in leading the criticism on the proposi- tions for the amendment of the Constitution, should have sought to impart into this debate A spirit of partisanship and acrimony, altogether out of place in the consideration of the [Uestion before the House. (Hear, hear.) I am ghvd to see that, with the exception of Is second lieutenant, the hon. member for Toronto (or perhaps I am doing the hon. gentle- |bn an injustice. I perhaps ought to have said fiist lieutenant, as it looks as if the lion. bmber for North Grey had been deposed) — I say .1 am glad to see, that with the oxcop- mn of the hon. member for Toronto, the other Opposition speakers have had the good rose, to refuse to follow in the unworthy path of criticism marked out for them, and have jweavored to discuss the propositions in a logical and temperate manner. I think I may ■ecially compliment the hon. member for East Durham as being the first to lead off in Bb much more appropriate manner of dealing with the subject. His speech, both in tone Si argument, was much better than that of his leader. It may not have been so fluent ■frothy, but it was more argumentative, and dealt Avith the proposed amendment in a ■nner more befitting the subject. I think I may extend the same compliment to that ■the hon. member for Granville, who, in the main, applied his criticisms in a business-like By, befitting a deliberative body called upon to deal with a subject as grave and momen- Ks as the amendment of our Constitution. H The fact is, that the older members of the House are getting a little tired of this old Bfalty speech of the hon. gentleman from London ; they have heard it almost verbatim wBiteratim, session after session. When first delivered, some eight or ten years ago, it Hs amusing and piquant, but after frequent repetitions it becomes stale and uninter- ■nng. It is like witnessing a play when you have been a dozen times at the rehearsal. ®siughter.) You thoroughly know the plot. You know when the colored fire is to be nlroduced. You know when the particular studied and well-rehearsed attitude of raising tt hands and bowing to the mimic company of rustics on the stage is assumed, it is the mconcerted signal for these rustics to throw up their paper hats, the village band to blare Wmv trumpets, and the little boys to frantically beat their big and little drums. (Cheers P and laughter.) Indeed, the stage character of the performance does not cease upon thedrn . of the curtain. No matter how tedious and hackneyed it has been, we know from past expei'^^ljl^ ® ence of years, that next morning, in the paper which gets the adverti.sing of the corned j '*''''' *^ company, tue okl familiar complimentary notice will appear. That the actor carried tli^" . '^^ house by storm, That he electrifi«l the audience. That the exhibition was the grande.'P'*^^"^*'®. attraction of the day, and the performer the greatest living actor of the age. (Grei^' consti laughter.) Tliat all the subordinate.s, even to the local scene shifter — (laughter) — playc'*^" y^ ^ their iiarts to perfection, and bid fair to become stars in the profession. (Cheers an?P'! ^1 laughter.) Where,] Jjut ^vhile this lOyalty farce has its comic side, it has also its serious aspect. Docf^^'^f^'^'j;'' it never occur to the member for London ; that charging a majority of the people of thW contei Province with disloyalty, and the fostering of rebellion, is a very serious thing, and to t"'^ ^ true son of Ontario ought not to be indulged in for the mere purpose of pointing an argumenjl'^''^^' ^'j padding a speech, or having a fling at a political opponent. (Hear, hear.) If the leadi^f'^. ^ . of the Government is disloyal, and if his colleagues are disloyal, the majority of the peopl^*^^ .^V of this Province are disloyal, because, although the hon. gentleman, election after electioi *'^^*''.^^** has appealed to the electors on every hustings on this loyalty cry, charging the Libers*!' ^"^"^'^U party with disloyalty, the people of this Province have repeatedly, again and again, e}**^^''^"*^ pressed their confidence in the Government by increased majorities, and have indignantljf^^"'^^ ^ cast the slander back in his teeth. "^"-^ ^^ ^' What is now the immediate cause of the reiteration of this charge ] It is parti** '^'^'' ^'' because the Government have presumed to attend a conference of the chosen represent; "'^'^p*^' *^'^ tives of the Provinces, to consider patriotically what are the evils in the present relation "^^^"^ ''^^ between the Provinces and the Dominion which are causing irritation and discontent, an ^'"^'^^^ ^'^ how these could be removed to make the Federal Union work more smoothly. This i Speaker, called a " conspiracy, and hatching rebellion." The hon. gentleman who had just sat dow^P^*^ . had complained that the leader of the Opposition and leading Conservatives had not bee: *^p°'^ ."^ ^ inviten of Sir John a>! ;i (1. C B. G \ % ht already rofcrred to, tliat the Oonsorvatlve party aro disloyal. It would be criminal b do so. I l)olit)ve thoy aro as loyal as the Reform party — Mr. Mkukdith — Hoar! hear! Mr. Ross. — No le.ss, no more. (Ministerial cheers.) The only difference is, perhaps, that the Conservative l)arty are more apt, when t\\< clouds i>f political adversity overshadow them, to seek relief in little petulant ebullition of temper, such as burning Parliament buildings, rotten-egging a (jlovernor-Genoral, o ' insulting an heir apparent. (Olioers.) Rut when the political sun shine.^ out again, witl, patronage and pap in his beams, the cockles of ^heir hearts are warmed, they don theii loyal toggruy. Haunt their coloured ribbons, shoulder their wooden gun, and swaggc like any F^ilstHlK (Loud applause and laughter.) That description of lip-loyalty is cheap it costs nothing, and its value is less than its cost. Its value is arrived at by the oli school-boy rule of "take nothing from nothing and nothing remains." This dcscriptioi of loyalty., for which the hon. gentleman seems to have taken out a patent, is of th* sarsaparilla pop variety — a little noiso, a little froth, a littto gas — and all the life am vitality are gone when the cork is drawn. The residue is dishwater. (Laughter.) Now, I do not say that the whole of the hon. gentleman's speech was made up of this fustian Home of it was legitimate argument, and he can be argumentative and logical when hi likes ; but I do say that the leading characteristic of the speech, was not an effort tc consider the propositions on their merits, but a set determination to lead the discussion into party lines, and to have the resolutions treated in a partisan spirit ; and this loyalt) cry, and waving of the flag episode, was either merely a device to draw a herring acrosi the scent, or an involuntary drop into an old rut which, from force of habit he could not resist. So much for this loyalty cry. Let us now get down to business. And before entering upon that ])ranch of the subject which I intend mainly to deal with — the finan cial — let mo for a moment touch upon one other of the resolutions. I mean thai, regard ing reform of the Senate. The Hon. the Attorney-General has frankly admitted that instead of tlie proposition contained in the resolution, he would have preferred to abolish the Senate altogether. In that view many on this side of the House, and no doubt some on that woulc concur ; but one Province cannot get everything its own way. The Senate was designed for the protection of the smaller Provinces, not the larger, and for that purpose thev were given a proportionately larger representation in it. The question is. Is it fulfilling as now constituted, this main purpose of its existence 1 Is it representative of thf Provinces 1 No one would have the hardihood to say it is. It is only representative of the Government and party, who for the time being has the power of making the ap pointments, and in making the appointments, there has been a glaring and dishonourable departure from the express p. ^mises and agreement, upon which the consent of the repre sentatives of Canada was obtained to this mode of appointment. Let me quote the fourteenth resolution to show the spirit in which it was proposed these appointment.- should be made. 14. "llu' first selection of the members of the Legislative Cpuncil shall be made, e.xcept as regards Prince Edward Island, from the Legislative Councils of the various provinces so far as a sufficient number be found qualified and willing to serve ; such members shall be appointed by the Crown at the recommenda tion of the CJeneral Executive Government, npon the nomination of the respective Local Governments, and m such nomination due regard shall be had to the claims of the members of the Legislative Council of the opposition in each Province, so that all political parties may, as nearly as pos,Hible, Vie fairly represented." Now, in that resolution the leading objects are : — First. That the Local Govern- ments in each Province shall have the nomination of who shall be the representatives ol the Province, and that is reasonable. These Local Governments are constitutionally and logically presumed to rightly represent the people of the Provinces, and are the best fitted, therefore, to nominate the Senators who are to represent the Province. Second, That both political parties shall, as nearly as possible, be fairly represented. But hon, gentlemen may say. Oh, that was only to apply to the first appointments. But even if there had been nothing more, it logically follows'; that if it was right and proper that the Provinces should have the right of nomination in regard to the first appointment, so that Sense have the ai no m they ▼ho been for fi ■■■IP criminal V )t, wlum til' t obullition »r-Gonoral, o ' t again, will, ley don theii and swaggo alty is choap ,t by the oli [is descriptioi nt, is of tlif tlie life am ;hter.) Now, this fustian cal when \n t an effort tc he discussion il this loyalt} herring acros- he could not And beforf th — the finan m thai, regard "dmitted thai rred to abolisli 3n that woulc e was designed t purpose thev Is it fulfilling mtative of the representative naking the ap dishonourabk it of the reprc me quote tlu appointment^ except as regard* sufficient number the recoinmenda jlovernments, and ive Council of tlie y represented." Local Govern- resentatives ol onstitutionall} id are the best ince. Secontl, bed. But hon. But even it proper that the itment, so that the appointees should be actually rfti)resontative, it is equally right and jnoper that they should have the same right in future appointments ; nlso, if it was (M^uitai)le and fair that 1 all political parties should be fairly repiusented in the first constitution of the Senate, it . is equitable and fair that this eiiuitablo principle should be carried out in 8ub.sei|uent appointments. The lirst essential was, that the Provinces were to have reprc - itation in the Senate, . and to be rej^resented by men who were jiresumed to bo truly rei)rr;.sentative of the Pro- vinces for wliich they were uppointed. Tiie s(!Cond was that all political parties were to be fairly represented in each Provincial contingtfut. Tlu' jiromiso was distinctly given tliat this was the princijjle which was to govern future aijpointments. Let me read the promises made by some of these fathers of confederation. Sir E. P. Tache, in contrasting the piirtizan appointments made between 1841 and 1848, with the manner in which they proposed to make the appointment, said : — "Now, honouraltle gentlenion, what was the spirit which actuated the appointnu.'nts to the Council from 1841 to 1848? It was a H\nrit of partizanship, and wiicro tliere is jjartizanshij) there can Vx; no justice. (Hear, hear.) Where thute c ansider.ibly more tlian its share towanls the public expenses involved in the administration of its affairs." Hon. Mr. Ross. — Well, upon my word, Mr. Speaker, I sat down with fear jind tremb- ling, thinking I was to be squelched and annihilated by some conclusive quotation from Mr. Mackenzie, (Loud cheers). Had anybody ever disputed that Ontario being the larger Province was [)aying a larger share to the dominion revenue than any other Pro- vince ■? I have myself again and again found fault with the manner in which Ontario was treated, that being the largest Province it was contributing more than the others, and getting less in proportion than they, and while we on this side were protesting against this injustice, the honourable gentleman was dumb and gave us no assistance, but excused his friends by reminding us that we were building up a great Domin- ion. But the quotation which the honourable gentleman now gave, did not help him out of the awkward position he had placed himself in. It did not relieve him from the charge ; that he had quoted Mr. Mackenzie ari stating that the Province at the present time contributed two-thirds of the revenue of the Dominion, though he must liave known when he did so that the quotation had reference to the position of the Province before Confederation. (Cheers). When I was inteiTupted by the hon. gentleman I was giving some instances of how Ontario was being bled if the hon. gentleman's two-thiid estimate was correct. I have a few more to give. Take the case of the Dominion Li(|U(»r License Act, uuder which the Dominion sought to deprive this Province of its jurisdiction and revenue. The abortive attempt cose $150,000, and according to the hon. gentleman, Ontario had to (iontribute $100,000 of it towards the attempt at her own despoilment. (Hear, hear.) Then the Franchise Act, condemned even by hon. gentlemen opposite, cost $400,000. Ontario's contribution on the two-thirds rule would be $200,000 of that. The North-West rebellion co.st $5,000,000. Ontario was obliged to pay $3,300,000 of that as the result of the " cruel neglect and incom- petence which brouglit that about." The Canadian Pacific Railway liad received in cash $62,000,000, mainly for the opening up and benefit of Manitoba and British Columbia. If the hoa. gentleman's calculation was correct Ontario had contributed $40,000,000 of that. Then in the matter of the present subsidie.s, accordinar to the hon. gentleman's contention, of the $4,182,000 now paid to the several provinces, Ontario was contributing $2,788,000, and as she was only receiving $1,339,287, fihe was actually, under present arrangement, paying more than two dollars for every dollar she received. And yet the hon. gentleman has been criminally silent, and never raised his voice until now on behalf of Ontario. Has the hon. gentleman acted as a •' true son of Ontario]" (cheeis) i.i re- otH rei amd the! turf If in Gol hal peif lo| arl 13 nitely dvity, to the le uett gentlo- addled Vieuils. e (lireot . belief, ist cost nan says nditure in nil ally w^ lar^e net itud fanii'^r avge had Mr. Mac- revenue. 872, said, mtry will expenses nd tremb- ition from being the other Pro- ch Ont;»rio the others, protesting assistance, ;at Domin- , did not ;t did not bating tliat Dominion, 3nce to the pted by the if the hon. ike the case deprive this 50,000, and towards the iemned even ? two-thirds )0. Ontario and inoom- (ived in cash ih Columbia. 3,000,000 of tientleman's contributing nder present And yet the ow on bidialf ;heei's) ii re- maining silent and dumb, and not making any effort or jjrotest to have his Province relieved of this terrrible burden? But now, forsooth, that they had a proposition, that if accepted and acted upon, would place Ontario in a better position than ever before, which would for the first time give recognition of her larger and increasing population, he asks, " Is it politic for you to ask for or consent to an increase because you are already [)aying more than you receive 1 " (Applause) Now, considering the proportion which he believes Ontario pays, either the long continued silence of the hon. gentleman was criminal, or he is insincere in raising his voice at the present time. (Cheers.) Now, Mr, Speaker, coming back to the consideration of the manner in which year after year the original terms of Confederation have been interfered with, I desire to say that these repeated breaches of the original compact, are in direct opposition to the pledges made when the Provinces were invited to accede to the terms of Confederation. The Pro- vinces were given clearly to understand that the terms proposed were to be final. The hon. gentleman had quoted the Hon. George Brown in favor of the Provinces meeting increased expenditure from local sources, but he never quoted him when the special grants were being made to the other Provinces. I will read to the House the same quotation, showing Mr. Brown clearly conceived the subsidies fixed and final, and if Provinces were extravagant they had tc take the consequences. Mr. Brown had said : — " We have also complained that immense sums of public money have been sy.steniatically taken from the jniblic chest for local purjioses of Lower Canada, in which tlie people of Upper Canada had no interest whatever, though compelled to contribute three-fourths of the cash. Well, sir, this scheme banishes all that. All local matters are to be banisiied from the general Legislature; Local ending 50 cents a head for local roads and bridges as in the lower Provinces, it would have added $846,000 annually to her expenditure, and I fear her position would be similar to that of the other Provinces. She would have no surplus and a respectable debt. (Hear, hear). Let us now examine the expenditure for schools under the Public School system which does not include colleges, or universities in any of the Provinces. The total educational expenditure in Ontario is given in the Educational Report for 1885, as by Government, 8533,564 ; by local contribution, $3,451,989, or a total of $3,985,553; but the information in the educational reports of the other Provinces only enables me to make a fair comparison of the amounts contributed by Government and local assessment respectively, directly for Public School purposes. Within this limitation Ontario's con- tributions have been : Government grant to Public Schools, $350,587 ; municipal assessment, S2, 922, 003 ; or taking the population basis, the Government in Ontario contributed 18 cents per head towards the support of Public Schools, and the munici- palities $1.52, or in the proportion of 1 to 8. In Quebec, the total Government grant to education is $344,735. The direct allot- ment of this to Public Schools is $249,417. The municipal contributions $777,178, or on the basis of population the Government grant is 18 cents per head — the same as in' Ontario — and the municipal assessment 57 cents, as against $1.52 in Ontario. In Nova Scotia, the total educational expenditure disbursed by the Province i.s $209,833. The direct grants to Public Schools, $199,119; and the local assessments in support of the same $442,331, equal to 45 cents per head by Government and $1 by the municipalities. In New Brunswick, total to education is, Government, $153,925 ; of which $132,493 is direct grants to Public Schools, and the assessments or local aid is $94,507, or Government 4 1 cents per head ; municipal 30, cents. The Government of Prince Edward Island devote $111,992 to support of education, ^101,335 of which goes in grants to public schools, and the municipal assessments amount to $36,786. The government contribution equaling 93 cents per head, and the muni- cipal 33 cents. The average government contribution in the Maritime Provinces is therefore 50 cents per head, and the average municipal, 65 cents. The government grants in Ontario being but 18 cents a head, it will be seen that the grants in the Maritime Provinces are 32 cents a head larger than in Ontario. Now if Ontario had since Confederation been pursuing the policy of these lower Provinces, and relieved the people of their municipal taxation for schools by 32 cents a head more than she has already done, instead of being in the position she is in to-day with a surplus in her treasury, she would have found that surplus wiped out years ago, and would have saddled herself with a debt of five or six millions instead. It is but just to say, however, in this connection, that no charge of extravagance in excenditurt can justly be made against the people of the Maritime Provinces. They are economical and careful both in provincial and municipal expenditure. Their error has been in the Government assuming too large a proportion of purely local work. It is also but just to say that in one particular, the maintenance of the insane, both in Nova Scotia and in Quebec, they have made provision for throwing a portion of the cost upon the munici palities, while we in Ontario throw the whole cost on the Government. I have thought it opportune to bring these comparisons before the notice of tht House, because it seems to be accepted as a settled belief by the people of the other Provinces that the terms of Confederation were exceptionally favorable to Ontario, anti that her better financial position to-day is due more to some advantage which she ob tained over the other Provinces rather than to her economical administration, hei prudence in limiting her expenditure to her revenue, and to the more thorough appreciatioi: and ac luie, \* |n the ihared could unfairi] to one as she this syi relati')] €onfe i jbeople I belie if any at the to reac vincial scale ol of the existin; workin dissatis res pons at the ( and tli( require adopte( proval and at arrang the oi-f to e icl federal of tht Provii these these after til the an if could Fikiand vices al the totf mentsl thein,f the ml causiil dang-ast between have done it hole rsvenue. Taking these revenues alone it would have shown an allotment of 23 per cent, to the provinces then, and 15 percent, now ; to the Dominion 77 per cent, then, and 85 per cent, now, or a difference of 8 per cent, less to the provinces, and 8 per cent, more to the Dominion, instead of a difference of 7 per cent, as stated in the resolution. It was not from a desire to exaggerate, therefore, that it was so stated. (Hear, hear.) And now for the post-office illustration. I find that the receipts from the post-office in 18G7 were ^525,691 ; they are now .$2,020,623, an increase of $1,494,932. That increase has been secured by largely increased outlay. The post-office expenditure has increased from $616,802 in 1867 to — including the ocean mail 6ub>idies— $3,092,403, or an increase in expenditure of $2,475,601. Who has paid that increrstd revenue, and that increased expenditure which has secured it? Have both not come out of the pockets of the people 1 (Cheers.) The revenue from railways and public works has been raised from $901,000 to $3,270,780, paid by tolls or taxes from the people, and the increase brought about by an expenditure of about $140,000,000. Take, amongst the smaller revenues, Fjshery licenses, — are these not taxation 1 — raised from $19,556 to $25,947 ; r Weights and Measures, — taxa- tion again ! — raised from nothing in 1867 to $62,600 ; Tonnage dues from $11,918 to $22, 934. Are not these increased revenues, increased taxation ? (Cheers.) 1 might goon, Mr, Speaker, and enumerate a dozen more items of the same character, all included in the $33,000,000, but outside of customs and excise. Coming back to the consideration of the proportions allotted then and now to the provinces and the Dominion, and bearing in mind that Ontario, being the most populous, is the largest contributor to the Federal revenue. The Dominion revenue at Federation was equal to $4.16 per head of the population. Ontario received then 86 cents per head. Now the Dominion revenue is $7.77 per head, or an increrse of $3.61, while Ontario is now only receiving 69 cents, or a reduc- tion of 17 cents per head. This is because Ontario's increasing population is swelling the Dominion revenue, without any increase to herself. The proposition in the resolution is, that Ontario's increase in population shall be recognized by an increase of $581,700. The leader of the Opposition had in his speech made a little epiyram, which seemed to take greatly with his followers : That "Mr. Mowat had got the glory, but thit Quebec had got the money." The little phrase loses its point when it loses its foundation of fact. If the honourable gentleman had examined the resolution and worked it out, he would have seen not only that our Premier had got the glory, to which he was well entitled, but that he had got the money also — (loud cheers.) — for not only would he have seen that Ontario got absolutely a larger grant than Quebec — Ontario's increase being $581,700. and Quebec's $347,969 — but that, taking the increase per head of population, Ontario got 30 cents increase, Quebec but 25 cents ; but this was merely owing to Ontario's laiger increase of population. The proposed extension of the 80 cents to population put both provinces on an equal footing. This is the second proposition in the resolution, that the 80 cents shall be payable on the population as shown every census, with the proviso that after the popu- lation of a province exceeds 2,500,000, only 60 cents shall be paid upon the excess. There can be no doubt, but that if the revenue assigned to the ^Dominion at Con- federation had been as large as it is now, the provinces would have stipulated for a much larger sum being returned to them for provincial purposes. The former quotation given from Mr. Brown, that by pressure the demands of the provinces were reduced one-half, 1 think proves that. It is true that the necessary expenses of the Dominion increases with the increase of population, but that increase of population brings to her treasury an equal or greater increase of revenue. To the Provinces, on the other hand, the larger population brings only increase of expenditure, without any increase of revenue. Ontario had in the past expended large sums for immigration, and to attract settlers on her wild lands. She had adopted the policy of giving away her lands free for the purpose of inducing settlement. Every additional settler located by these means, brings to the Dominion increased revenue, to the Province only increased expenditure. Every head of a family thus located, according to the present scale of taxation, contributes to the Dominion revenue $29.65 yearly, to the Province nothing. It is well known, that new settlements are never self-supporting, and the residents of the older settled districts might with some reason object to direct taxation being imposed upon them for provincial expenditure in these new districts, and '"^ to tho Dominion receive all the benefits of their taxation. A return of the cost of opening up and (levoloping these new (liHtrif'Ls by the sale of the land might be secured to tho province, but Ontario had relincjuished such revenue for the sake of building up the Dominion. A reasonable measure of consideration she is entitled to ask in return. (Hear, hear.) The hon. gentleman asserts that Ontario pays two-thirds of the revenue of the Dominion, and that it is not in her interest to ask any increase of the provincial subsidies ; that it would be moro profitable for her to raise such additional revenues as may be reciuirod by direct taxation. That may be to a certain extent true in the abstract. It is a disidvantaa;e under which Ontario has always been labouring; under which she is suffer- ing,' today. That was the cause of tho dissatisfaction before Confederation, and which Mr. Mackenzie hoped Confederation had put an end to ; That while Ontario paid more, she received less. The same unfairness is still being pursued. It is to remedy that state of things, the proposal under consideration is made. While the rate per head of customs duties paid by each province may be a matter of dispute, Ontario would have been satis- fied if her larger population — about which there could be no dispute — was recognized. The resolutions of tho Conference is the first occasion in which Ontario's claim in this respect has been recognized — (cheers) — and yet hon. gentlemen object to it. (Hear, hear.) It is difficult to ascertain with any degree of accuracy the proportion of customs or excise duty paid by any province. Both the Maritime Provinces and Manitoba contend, that the people of these provinces pay more customs duty per head to-day than do the people of either Quebec or Ontario, and their argument has a measure of logic in it. They say, " While we admit that the people in Ontario and Quebec are wealthier, better off", a d spend more per head than our peo|)ie, yet that these are manufacturing provinces, and that a large portion of that spending, is for goods manufactured in these provinces which pay no duty into the Dominion exchequer." (Opposition hear ! heirs !) Hon. gentle- men say hear, hear ; but if these gouus bring nothing into the Federal treasury, they cost just as much to the consumer as if they did, but the extra price does not go into the public chest, but, under the operation of the precious N. P., into the pockets of the combines, the monopolists, the protected manufacturer. (Loud cheers.) The representatives of these provinces, in furtlier support of their argument, say " that their people, not being a manu- facturing people, and by rea:;on of distance and cost of carriage being debarred from profitable interchange of commodities with Ontario and Quebec, are by force of circum- stances compelled to buy largely of imported goods, and thus contribute more to the Dominion revenue." That argument is to some extent true. Whether it is true to the extent claimed by the representatives of these provinces, may be doubted. Mr. Norquay, in his budget speech in the Manitoba Legislature in 1884, claimed that the customs collections at the different ports for the period 1874 to 1883 shewed the col- lections per head of population to be for the nine years : Ontario, $31.4''6 ; Quebec, |51.65 ; Nova Scotia, 834.89 ; New Brunswick, .$42.10; Manitoba, $107.62; British Columbia, •1102.76 ; Prince Edward Island, $24.14. The collections at the port of entry did not, however, by any means shew wl, ?,re the dutiable goods were consumed, for it was wc41 known, that about one-half of the customs collected at the port of Montreal, although credited to Quebec, were on goods forwarded and consumed in Ontario and the other pro- vinces. But admitting that Ontario is still the largest contributor per head, and that provincial subsidies on the basis of population would not be as profitable to her as direct taxation for provincial purposes, still I doubt if any one will contend that, increased sub sidies to the other provinces, and direct taxation to Ontario, is for her either profitable or equitable. (Cheers.) Yet that is the existing condition, and I do not recollect that when year after year increased grants have been given to the other provinces, hon. gentle- men ever raised their voice in protest against' a practice so unjust to their own province. (Hear, hear.) It could not be denied that grave dissatisfaction existed in some of the other pro- vinces. One threatened secession, another almost in rebellion. Was it not wise to con sider whether some moderate scheme could not be devised to relieve the tension. The fact is, we must recognize the situation, and Ontario must do the best she can under existing conditions. The other provinces will not consent to cease their demands for better terms, 4 i opening bd to the Ig up the In return. 6 of the tibsMies ; 8 may be ct. It is is Hijffer- hich Mr. |niore, she state of f customs )oen satis- ized. The lis respect ir.) ustoms or a contend, m do the I it. They ;er off, a c 'inces, and j nces which j on. gentle- ', they cost the public nbines, the es of these ng a manu- arred from of circum- lore to the true to the laimed that K ;ed the col- ec, $51.65 ; Columbia, ly did not. t was well J, although I } other pro- 1, and that r as direct reased sub rofitable or i that when ion. gentle- n province. 5 other pro- ise to con- . The fact er existing stter terms, I / I 21 unless some ro-arrani,'(Mnt!nt is made that will increase their allowances ; and from past expttrience wc know, that if tin; tiiiio for rnakiiij,' detnanda is judiciously chosen, they will not be deniod. Ontario (h^sired liiiality, and finality can only be obtained through an increase of tho present sul).si(lies. Xo doubt Ontario could nKluce her expenditure by shift- ing the re.spoiisibility of sonm ol' tlio services upon tho municipalities ; her people are edu- cated in this local responsil»ility and municipal taxation ; a very slight insiease of this would relievo tlu; pi-ovincial finances. It may bo naid, lot the other provinces do this also, and relief would be found. To this suy^estion the representatives of the lower provinces reply ; '* The att(;nipt to 'orce an onerous inuuieii)al taxation upon our people to relieve the provincial treasury, would create such dissatisfaction that withdrawal from Confed- eration would be in.>i.->ted on. Our [)eople are not accustomed to it, they are not educa- •ted to it. The Provincial (Joveiiimeut have always constructed and maintained the roads and bridges. It did so before Confederation, and was enabled to meet this and all other necessary expenditure under a ten per cent, tariff; and if the people now under the union, in addition to luivinq to submit to a 35 per cent, tariff — mainly for the benefit of manufacturers in other provinces — have also to submit to heavy municipal taxation to relievo the provincial treasury, the dissatisfaction already existing, would become so inten- sified, that tho peoplo would become a unit in favor of withdrawal from the Dominion." Hon. gentlemen know how ditlicult it is, .suddenly to change the customs and habits of a peoplo, confirmed by generations, or centuries of use and wont. The conditions and circumstances of these provinces, and the feeling existing there, cannot be ignored. Xor will the past capricious and unjust system of special grants be longer submitted to in Ontario. Some common ground had to be sought that would meet the circumstances and secure finality. That common ground is found in the propositions of the Conference. It has been accepted as an equitable basis of a final settlement by the Governments of five of the most populous provinces in tho Union. Finality is secured by the condition that the Imperial Act shall declare this settlement final and absolute, and not within the power of the Federal Parliament to alter, add to, or vary. (Cheers.) The plan, since published, had been discussed by every -ewspaper in the country, and I think I can say truly that, with the exception of a few partizan she'et^s, which cannot be expected to concur in anything not proposed by their own party, the Reform pres.s, the Independent press, and the moderate Con.servative press, have expressed approval of the plan, and sur- prise, considering the dilficulties that surround such a settlement, tl\at a way has been found to satisfy the provinces, do ju.stice to all, to relieve the Federal treasury from the continual raids to which it has heretofore been subjected, and that upon terms so little onerous to the Dominion. (Applause.) Hon. gentlemen had charged that the objects and actions of the Conference were par- tizan in their character. I defy hon. gentlemen to point to a single incident or proceeding in connection with the calling of the Conference, or a single word or proposition in the resolutions that would justify such a charge. And I am sure that if hon. gentlemen will, in the vote they will be called upon to give, as honestly endeavour to divest their judgment of all partizan feeling, as did the representatives at the Conference, they will unanimously cast their vote in support of the resolutions. (Loud and prolonged applause.)