"^T^^. IMAGE EVALUATION TEST TARGET (MT-3) W / O (/ ^ .*\^ i5t i z /] / eM' ^/ /A ^ %*^ '^i om 1.0 ■ii m 12.2 Sciences Corporalion 33 WeST MAIN STREET WEBSTER, N.Y. 14560 (716) 872-4503 :/. UIHM/ICMH Microfiche Series. CIHM/ICMH Collection de microfiches. Canadian Institute for Historical Microreproductions / Institut Canadian de microreproductions historlques Technical and Bibliographic Notea/Notaa tachniquaa at bibliographiquaa Tha Instituta haa attamptad to obtain tha baat original copy availabia for filming. Faaturaa of thia copy which may ba bibiiographicaily uniqua. which may altar any of tha imagaa in tha raproduction, or which may significantly change the usual method of filming, are checiced below. 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Les details de cet exempiaira qui sont peut-Atre uniques du point de vue bibliographiqua. qui peuvent modifier une image reproduite, ou qui peuvent exiger una modification dana la mithoda normale de fiimaga sont indiquis ci-dessous. □ Coloured pages/ Pagea da couleur □ Pagea damaged/ Pagea andommagiaa I — I Pages reetored and/or laminated/ D This item is filmed at the reduction ratio checked below/ Ce document est filmA au taux de rMuction indiquA ci-dessous. 10X 14X 18X 22X Pages restauriaa et/ou peiliculies Pages discoloured, stained or foxe< Pagea dicolortes. tacheties ou piquAes Pages detached/ Peges d^tachtes Showthrough/ Transparence Cuality of prir Qualiti inigala de I'impression Includes supplementary matarii Comprend du matiriel supplAmentaire Only edition available/ Seule Mition disponibie T t( Pages discoloured, stained or foxed/ Pagea dicolortei n~| Pages detached/ r~7] Showthrough/ r~] Cuality of print varies/ nn Includes supplementary material/ nn Only edition available/ 7 f Pagea wholly or partially obscured by errata slips, tissues, etc., have been refiimed to ensure the best possible image/ Les pagea totalement ou partiellement obscurcies par un feuillet d'errata, una pelure, etc., ont M filmies A nouveau de 'apon d obtanir la meilleure image possible. 26X aox y ] 12X 16X 20X 24X 28X 32X Th« copy filmad h«r« has b««n raproducad thanka to tha ganarosity of: N«w Brunswick MuMum Saint John L'axamplaira film4 fut raproduit grica k la giniroaiti da: N«w Brunswick MuMum Saint John Tha imagaa appaaring hara ara tha baat quality posaibia conaidaring tha condition and lagibiiity of tha original copy and in kaaping with tha filming contract spacifieationa. Laa imagaa auh^antaa ont 4ti raproduitaa avae la plua grand soin, eompta tanu da la condition at da la nattati da I'axampiaira film4. at an eonformiti avac laa conditiona du contrat da fllmaga. Original copiaa in printad papar eovara ara filmad baginning with tha front eovar and anding on tha last paga with a printad or illuatratad impraa- sion, or tha back covar whan appropriata. All othar original copiaa ara filmad baginning on tha first paga with a printad or illuatratad Impraa- sion, snd anding on tha laat paga with a printad or illuatratad impraaaion. Laa axamplairaa originaux dont la couvartura ^n papiar aat ImprimAa sont filmte an commandant par la pramiar plat at an tarminant soit par la darni4ra paga qui comporta una amprainta d'impraasion ou d'iilustrstion. noit par la Mcond plat, salon la caa. Toua laa autraa axamplairaa originaux sont filmte an commandant par la pramlAra paga qui comporta una amprainta d'impraaaion ou d'iiluatration at an tarminant par la darni^ra paga qui comporta una taila amprainta. Tha laat racordad frama on aach microflcha ahail contain tha aymboi — »> (moaning "CON- TINUED"), or tha symbol V (maaning "END"), whichovar apptiaa. Un daa symbolaa suivanta apparattra sur la damlAra imaga da chaqua microflcha. salon la caa: la symbols — »> signifia "A SUIVRE". la aymbola ▼ signifia "FIN". Mapa, plataa. charts, ate, may ba filmad at diffarant raduction ratioa. Thoaa too larga to ba antlraly inciudad in ona expoaura ara filmad baginning in tha uppar laft hand comar. laft to right and top to bottom, aa many framaa aa raquirad. Tha following diagrama illuatrata tha mathod: Laa cartaa, planchas, tablaaux. ate, pauvant Atra filmte ii daa taux da reduction diff^ants. Loraqua la documant aat trop grand pour dtra raproduit an un saui cllchA, il aat filmA A partir da I'angla sup4riaur gaucha, da gaucha i droita, at da haut 9n baa. wx pranant la nombra d'Imagas ntesssaira. Laa diagrammaa suivanta illuatrant la mAthoda. 1 2 3 1 2 3 4 5 6 f ^1 •> "«* mmmmmm 3 2^5? /J SPEECH ov LIEUT.-QENERAL SIR HOWARD DOUGLAS, BART. M.P. ON LORD INGESTRE'S MOTION, FOR AV ADDRESS TO THE CROWN, TO I3SUE ANOTHER COMMISSION FOR TFE INVESTIGATION AND TRIAL or MR. WARNER'S ALLEGED DISCOVERIES. 4 LONDON: T. & W. BOONE, NEW BOND STREET. 1846. ' '^^1 \< •( N^ " n- SPEECH. ft' Having in common with both my gallant associates, first Vice Admiral Sir Edward Owen, and then Admiral Sir Byam Martin, declined having any thing more to do with this affair, unless positively ordered upon it, as a duty which we could not disobey, I should be too happy to escape from taking any part in this discussion, had not the Noble Lord the Member for Staffordshire reflected upon the spirit and character of the Com- mission to which I had the honour to belong, in terms which, I think the House will admit, impose upon me the obligation of defending my gallant colleagues and myself from the imputations which the Noble Lord has cast upon our proceedings. The Noble Lord, premeditatinjy, as it now appears, this attack, and intending to refer particularly to my name, ought, I think, to have given me notice of such an intention, as due in courtesy. But I am too much of a tactician to be taken by surprise. I could not, indeed, have expected from the Noble and Gallant Member, that such an attack as this would be made, without notice to the parties ac- cused ; but fortunately I look at the Orders of the Day, and if I find anything likely to come on, in which I feel an interest, and may take a part, I arm myself with any minutes I may have made on that matter ; and so, seeing the notice of the Noble Lord in the Order of the Day, 1 put in my pocket the papers which I had laid by two years ago, and thus luckily am provided with the ammunition which I am now, off-hand to use, without, however, having had time to refer to them in detail, to prepare myself the better to vindicate the conduct of the Commission, on which I served. I shall answer, severally, in the course of what I have to say, the strictures and assertions of the Noble Lord. First, as to the spirit and character in which our proceedings were conducted. To show this, it will be necessary to explain, in full, the stipulations and conditions under which I undertook, reluctantly, a duty which, having had a good deal to do with in- ventors and projectors, I foresaw would be difficult and laborious. And I request the attention of the House to a brief explanation of the several docu- ments and minutes, which became the basis of the instructions under which we acted, and in strict conformity with which, the whole of our proceed- ings were regulated. When my gallant friend, the late Master-General of the Ordnance, with the concurrence of the late Prime Minister, requested me to undertake that I duty, I did all 1 properly could to excuse myself, having then but recently returned from foreign ser- vice of considerable duration. But the proposition was pressed upon me in a manner which I could not decline : my acceptance, however, was conditional on certain stipulations which I made to Sir George Murray, in a letter dated the 31st of Dec. 1841, of which the following are extracts. "The duties of the commission will certainly be difficult, and highly responsible ; but 1 undertake this as a duty, from which I feel that I ought not to shrink ; and it affords me great satisfaction to learn that I am to be associated with such a person as Vice- Admiral Sir Edward Owen." I submitted " the necessity of coming to a clear and distinct understanding with Mr. Warner, in writing, as to the nature and extent of the preliminary experiments, and the locality where they are to be carried on ; and that these be on a scale so extensive, as to ascertain, positively, the real service powers and effects of the invention." I stated that I should decidedly "object to any thing short of experiments upon a large scale, to which, as they were to be made at the public expense, Capt. Warner could have no reason or pretence to object." I also stipulated " that I should have nothing whatever to do, either with the principle, or amount of reward or compen- sation, or be committed in any way with any proceeding that has already taken place, or with any expectation held out to, or entertained by Mr. Warner, as to any pledge, expressed or implied, for the purchase of his discovery." " I undertake this commission solely and entirely to investigate, ascertain, and verify by actual experiment the real service power.safety to the users, and practical utility of the invention, and, reporting upon these accordingly, to leave the Government perfectly free to negociate, or act in all respects thereafter with Mr. Warner as they may judge fit, on receiving our report of the absolute power, efficacy, and Bafety to the ueers of the invention if ap- plied by U8, and conseqaently the detriment that would result to the national interests, by not securing the secret to ourselves. These conditions were expressly admitted ; I was appointed, accordingly, a member of the Commis- sion, and, by seniority, became its chief. Vice- Admiral Sir Edward Owen, signified to the Master-General of the Ordnance on the 5th of January, 1842, his acceptance of that duty, and ex- pressed « great satisfaction in being associated in the inquiry with an officer, whose experience and character," he was pleased to say, " would ensure to it a searching investigation and candid interpre- tation ; and that in this feeling, he would meet me with every disposition to second my views in the fulfilment of our duty/' I quote from this letter, as I shall from others, to shew the perfect unanimity that reigned between the members of the Com- mission on which I acted, to refute the allegations end fabrications which have been circulated to the contrary. ,^. _, On the 22nd of January, 1842, bir George Murray, the Master-General of the Ordnance, issued the following memorandum, which formed the basis of our instructions : a copy of that minute was previously communicated to Mr. Warner. "Ist. To agree upon a series of experiments to he made under Mr. Warner's directions, in the presence of Sir H. Douglas and Sir Edward Owen. 2nd. To frame an estimate of the expense which will attend M mmmi-tf' these experiments that it may be submitted to the Treasury previously to any expense being incurred. 3rd. That when the expense has been sanctioned by the Treasury, the experiments should proceed. 4th. That detailed minutes should be kept of every step of the investigation, i. e. all particulars of such expe- riments. 6th. That Sir E. Owen and Sir H. Douglas should draw up a report as to the result of their observations to be sub- mitted to the Prime Minister, and to which they will be pleased to annex, as an appendix, the minutes above men- tioned. 6th. Sir H. Douglas and Sir E. Owen will be pleased to consider the whole proceeding in this matter strictly confi- dential." The House >yill perceive that in conformity with ray express stipulations, and the views of her Majesty's Government, not a word of any promise or guarantee as to remuneration appears, and that the Commission should consist of two members as therein named. To this memorandum Mr. Warner expressly consented, as declared by Sir George Murray, in his letter of the 30th of April, and 13th of May, 1842, (Parliamentary Papers, pp. 25 & 28) in which he states, that Mr. Warner's refusal to proceed to the experiments for which we had made all the arrangements, unless we guaran- teed remuneration, "was wholly at variance with the basis which he, Sir George Murray, had laid down, and to which Mr. Warner had expressly given his concurrence and assent." Mr. Warner accepted the proposed nomination of the members in a letter, of which the following is a copy :— n^mm-'^ 8 •« H/A Ja/iMary, 1842. ••Sir. -I beg to acknowleUge the receipt of your note of the 12th instant. • ♦ *„ « Any day afier Wednesday next that may be convenient to Sir Howard Douglas. Sir Edward Owen, and yourself, I Bhall hold myself disengaged, and shall be most happy to attend upon you at the Ordnance, as you propose. .' I would have named an earlier day, but I have some plans and drawings to replace that I have destroyed, for the Bake of security. ^ «. « „j " From the character I have hcurd both of S.r Howard Douglas and Sir Edward Owen, I am highly gratified with the choice the Government has made in those distinguished officers. I ^"^' ^°- (Signed) " S. A. Warner." Thus Mr. Warner entered into the most express engagement, in writing, as to the powers, instruc- tions, number, and persons of the Commission. It became my duty as the chairman, to prepare a minute in detail, to be submitted to the Com- mission, by which, if approved, their proceedmgs should be regulated. The following is a copy of that minute— "That all communications with Mr. Warner, should be made in writing ; and minutes kept of all that took place in our meetings with that gentleman, in conformity with articles 4 and 5 of the Master-General's Memorandum. " That no attempt should be made to obtain any part of Mr. Warner's secret. ««That he should be forbidden to answer any question that might in the slightest degree tend, if answered, to disclose his alleged discoveries. I 1 I f 1 "That he would he required to exhibit the prac- tical efficacy of hia .nventions, on a scale sufficient to enable the Commission to ascertain and re- port upon their practical efficacy, and utility to the public service. •♦ That we attached by far the greatest importance to that part of his alleged discovery, which he denominated * The long range.' "That we were strongly disposed to proceed at once to witness any experiments he might exhibit of the astounding powers which he attri- buted to that alleged discovery. " That we were likewise ready to witness the powers of his invisible shells, if tried in an open sea-way, and in strong tides. " That we should not report separately on the two branches of his alleged discoveries, but wait until we should have witnessed experiments, on a scale suf- ficient to enable us to ascertain, with certainty, the applicability, efficacy, and value, of the * Long Range* to the public service. ♦' That these experiments should be tried in the most retired locality, and conducted with every pos- sible regard to the retention and safety of his secret. "That these experiments should be conducted at the public expense.'* In this we went beyond our instructions, but we were resolved to do everything in our power to bring these alleged powers to a full and con- clusive test, and to do nothing that might afford Mr. Warner the slightest pretext for getting up 1 I I 10 a grievance against the Commissicn, to be used as a plea for compensation, which we, at a very early period, foresaw would be attempted. "That the experiments with the invisible shells should be sucii as to test their power and applica- bihty with safety to the users, the value of the invention to us, the use to an enemy, if neglected by us ; the power of controul, management, and direction, which the inventor possessed over these astounding powers ; what reasonable certainty or security there might be of our retaining the ex- clusive use of the invention, should it be proved to possess the powers which Mr. Warner asserted ; or whether, should the Government purchase his secret, there was any probability that the philan- thropic and humane purpose of p'.fcecting the human race from so desolating and destructive an agent could be accomplished. "That for the trials with the invisible shells we should provide two vessels of considerable strength and magnitude ; that we should cause them to be taken to some retired bay ; that Mr, Warner should have due notice to prepare his means of destruc- tion; that the hulks should remain in our charge to the last ; that he should never be permitted to visit or have any communication with them ; that he should have every facility for attempting to destroy them, but not allowed to do this under circumstances which the ordinary pv .cautions of real service would not permit. ^ i < >' " ^ I < *' ^' n - The trials to be made : first, against a vessel at anchor ; and then against a vessel in motion ; Mr. Warner having nothing to do with the traction or movement of the vessel whose destruction he was to attempt. « The effects of the * long range ' to be tried at the full distance of what Mr. Warner states to be the powers of his ' long range,' namely, six miles. «' First, against a hulk ; at anchor ; then against a vessel in motion ; under such circumstances of wind and weather, &c. as the Commission might propose. « That the * long range' should be tried against a fort or other building or erection to represent a fort situated on a hill, at the full distance of the * long range.' . « Against a real fort of considerable magnitude, which we were prepared to indicate to Mr. Warner, at the full distance of the *long range,' and not much elevated above the position of the assailant. « That the experiments with the ' long range* should be made from a vessel in a sea-way -first, to leeward of the hulk, and afterwards directly to windward of the vessel to be destroyed. " That experiments should likewise be made, to enable the Commission to ascertain how far bodies, which, immersed in the sea, or used at a ' long range,' would explode on the slightest concussion, can be sa/ely handled and applied, or resist, as m the case of the ' long range,' the percussive force of so powerful an agent." HifonAiftV.i!'- 12 The Commission met on the 25th of January, 1842. At that interview I read to my colleague my letter of the Slst ofDecember,1841,whichlhad addressed to the Master- General of the Ordnance, and the minute which I had prepared, suggesting the course which our proceedings should take. In the whole of these views and propositions, Sir Edward Owen expressed his entire concurrence. We had another meeting on the 27th of January, at which it was settled, that though we attached by far the greatest importance to the "long range," and were much disposed to proceed at once with ex- periments to test its powers, we would consent to commence with the invisible shells, as desired by Mr. Warner, but only as a path to get at the *« long range." At this meeting it was settled with °Mr. Warner, that he should report to us when he was ready. A case has been endeavoured to be gotten up, among other alleged grievances, that consider- able delay then took place by my having been called away to Liverpool for my election. I went to Liverpool on the 1st of February, and on the 9th had the honour to take my seat in this House. And so far from my absence having oc- casioned any delay, I was ready, and Sir Edward Owen, who did not leave London to hoist his flag till towards the end of the month, was ready like- wise, but during the whole of that time, we heard nothing from Mr. Warner. - • • 13 On Sir Edward Owen wi rawing from the commission, he addressed a , ^r to Sir George Murray on the 7th of February, 1842, an extract of which will be found in the P««^"'r!t"y Papers, p. 13, to the seventh paragraph of which 1 particularly refer. .... The time has now come, and this ,s the proper place, for me to deny and refute assertions and statements advanced by Mr. Warner, wh.ch have appeared in several of the public papers, and some of which it seems the Noble Lord believes. These gave me no individual concern, and I should not now condescend to notice them, did it not appear to me that the public interests require, that the House and the country should know, exactly, what sort of a person the Commission had to deal with, and the manner in which two British Admirals and a British General have been maligned m the per- formance of an arduous and highly responsible duty which they have discharged to the best ot their ability, acting fairly in strict conformity with the spirit and letter of their instructions. The following paragraph appeared m several of the public papers soon after the proceedings of the Committee were brought to an abrupt termi- nation, by Mr. Warner having refused to proceed with the experiments we had arranged, unless we complied with demands wholly at variance with the conditions to which he had assented, and which we had no authority to admit. jjjaMB'iP'''-''-''^^**'''^ 14 " Sir Howard Douglas has represented that there was a concurrence of opinion with respect to my inventions between himself and Sir Edward Owen. I will take the present op- portunity of declaring that this is a misapprehension on Sir Howard's part. For when Sir Howard made light of some naval operations, which as a soldier officer he probably did not understand, Sir Edward Owen came forward in my de- fence, and expressed his belief that I could carry my plans into effect ; and when to save time I offered to go down to a secluded part of the coast, and enter into some operations be- fore Sir E. Owen, during Sir H. Douglas's canvass at Liver- pool, Sir Howard would not permit a single explanation to be entered into during his absence, though Admiral Owen reminded him with a smile, that he felt himself competent to form ajudgroentof any naval movements, without the gallant General's assistance. I regret, to this hour. Sir Edward Owen's departure for the Mediterranean, for I believe that his knowledge of seamanship and candid disposition would have brought my affairs to a different termination than has befallen them." I transmitted, on the ^9th of August, 1842, this identical extract to Sir Edward Owen, who an- swer d (12th of September),* " Decidedly no such conversation ever passed between us. There was no difference of opinion. We both considered Mr. Warner to be trifling with the inquiry. The in- visible shell is an acquaintance of 40 years stand- ing. You wished to get at once to the long range, in which I heartily concurred, and consented to go into the invisible shells as a foot-path to the long range. I was prepared for the finale of Mr. Warner's proposition, which appeared to me to * I have the authority of Sir Edwarc July 21, to make this use of his letters. iwen 15 contain nothing more than an unusual share of the most barefaced charlatanerie."* On the departure of Vice Admiral Sir Edward Owen, a successor was appointed, whose high rbaracter, eminent services and qualifications, ren- dered him peculiarly vt for the difficult duties, which I foresaw we should have to discharge ; and it was with the highest degree of satisfaction, that I found myself acting under Admiral Sir Byam Martin, who now, by seniority of rank, became chief of the Commission. I immediately transmitted to him all the papers and documents relating to the inquiry. On the 31st of March, 1842, 1 received from Sir Byam Martin a minute, dated that day, of which the following is a copy, and which I beg leave to read to the House, because it shews the * Mr. Warner asserts, in his letter of the 14th of Nov. 1845, to Sir George Murray, that Sir Edward Owen on his return to England, expressed himself ready and willing to witness any trials, and rvislwd for the sanction of the Government, or even a simple intimation that he might attend if he pleased, and the Noble Lord. I think, stated something of the same kind. As this is at variance with what I have stated at the commencement of my speech. I think it right to say that Sir Edward Owen acquainted me in a letter dated the 4th of June, 1846, that he declined to do so, or to mix in the question in any n=ay mth his coment. That whatever he was ordered to do. he would undertake, but without such orders he refused to take any part. That T.^rd Ingestre called to renew the request, which he, Sir Edward Owen, again declined, having no desire whatever to mix again in an affair of which he had no favourable opinion. 16 approbation and concurrence which the lately-ap- pointed chief expressed in the previous proceed- ings, and his adhesion to the proposed arrange- ments ; thus proving the perfect harmony and unanimity which reigned throughout, between the two distinguished Admirals and myself— " March 31, 1842. ..Iha,eread the various papers delivered to ^ by Sir HoJarf Douglas on tho 27.h in«. respecting Mr Warners "'r.OeHng *e astounding and .errific po.ers ascribed bv Mr Wa^r to his discoveries. I should shrink from any l^;;7o dimeult an undertaking «ere it no. frou. the cou- :ffirJ.h::<:mi'lasso:iatedinthi,duty. HispubUshed rhilh Iv approved publications on Gunnery and on Naval TacSn'L out'as the person, of all others on who» rOovLment may ^ ^;^^:r^^Z:^Z "'^'"^ i; ra::^!* I HT:rDougia,. .h.. the Lo„g Ce L Id by Mr. Warner, is that which the Conamis- ^!hlu"n the first instance proceed to investigate on a -rwecannotd^^yfi^^^^^^^^^^ :;r!::::tCT:rr:.rhave .he n.„st .1. .d o^, Jltlfs to be made on some old work that may he knocked Sown without disadvantage to the publ.c. "in the 2nd paragraph of the memorandum made by^e r. L ,L Buidance of the Commission, dated "^r^S^^^^^ an estimate be .ade of the ' thich will attend Mr. Warner's experiments, ,n order ... be submitted to the treasury, previous to any ex- incurred on the public account. exi pense being 17 ..Will. l\m view, it «em9 d«irable that no time be lo.t in eallirg upon Mr. Wavner by letter. (I think .ha. ..o.h,ng L!paL .hat i, not c„n,n,itted to «"""g^ '» f"/-" ,':;:^ the information necessary to prepare an estimate of the expen e of making the experiments with the I^ng Range and invisible bel on'snoh a'scale a, .ill be neees»ry on -t«a -rvice ..That, for the sake of secresy, the experiment with the Long Range shall be made in some nnftequented place, and the time known only to ourselves, and sueh persons as Mr. Warner may rZZ ; and that he may fix upon an, locality which he may :?„k most satisfactory, provided the place affords space m, convenience to test .he powers of .he Long Range to the extent lie asserts. . ./... ;„ TiU .. He should likewise be called upon to inform us if it is his „ish to have any artillerymen, or o.hers belonging .o .he wisu lo I 1 „,;(■;,;. his desire to be assisted public service, to assist him, or if il is his aesire Llv by his own people. In the first case, to state the number : men'he will rVre.-l 1" .>•» '-'f-- '-'« ' ; te"s he will make for .he number of his own men, .0 be so 'Tlrlt we conclude from knowledge and experience he „ill be able to state every expense will, great accuracy, : th^t t shall receive his statement with an «nderstana,og that nothing more shall be paid by the public than the ex ^nses to 1^ previously agreed upon and sanctioned by the '"T^7i^ the information thus acquired, we shall be able lo present, for the consideration of the Treasury, the required 'ti:l„s to me of the highest i-P---- '"" "' ttt move wi.h the utmost -;-— ^ ;>:„- ^^^^^ commiin cations with Mr. Warner , one y oLrs is desirable-namely, not to attempt to elicit any th.ng tl Mr Warner as to his secret ; but on the contrary, to dCu^ge »::::;» forbid an, disclosure of his power, until B 18 he may be called upon for information, after «o .hall have «i,„e,.ed the practical application, of hi, "•«■"'»"'• .. U bo fail to prove to onr «.tiBfaction, ""'"'» ''asobU.nert ,be destruclive powers be assert., I presume we should at ouce :.e our pr Jedings. a.d leave him in the f«' Po-j; of his secret; the object of this F"""""" »■ "1 ""' 'J '"^ the failure of the experiments, to disarm Mr. ~ of "J pretext for saying that his secret bad been drawn from h m and on that ground to claim compensation for ''"""gj''" deprived of what he would still have regarded as a market- ""^TTer: af; four documents to which I have now to refer on mv first introduction to this business. ^. 1 t! Sir Howard Douglas' letter of the 31st of December 1841, to Sir George Murray, stating '»«'»'."; h "dee- terms the conditionsand ^--^of P"t'f"'^.,T Irtakelo it right to point out, as those on which he w.ll undertake to r. '^r 1" rr'-tbe proceedings of the Commission at the Ordnance Office, on tbe24lb of January, 1842. "3rd. A minute of the 27th January. .. h. A paper by Sir H. Douglas, stating t e w^,ole cou.e of proceedings of the Commission, up to the t.me of S,r Edward Owen's sailing for the Mediterranean. ..These several papers, being the P"°««*'"f "^ '''' "^™ mission up to the time of my nomination, and I refer to them Tthe purpose of expressing my entire concurrence ,n wha has already been done, and my willingness to enter upon the hJitras a partaker in all the responsibility wh.ch may ''tt irwCd* t my colleague at the Ordnance Office, on the earliest day that may suit bis convenience, and fefdv to join in a communication to Mr. Warner, of our d^^ to prosecute our inquiries without delay, so far as may depend upon us. (Signed) T. Byam Martin.' f 1 } » ■ I IS With respect to the oLjection, to the enlargement of the Commission, by the appointment of a third member, whether the Noble Uvi or any other person who had previously been connected with this investigation, and which he complains of as unfair to Mr. Warner ; we expressly stipulated that we should have nothing whatever to do with any pre- vious proceedings or persons. We foresaw, dis- tinctly, that attempts would be made to connect us with previous experiments, said to have been suc- cessful, but of which no documentary proof could be found, and which were stated to have been made in the presence of some eminent and distingmshed men now uo more. We undertook this as a new Commission, the terms and composition of which were, as I have said, expressly assented to, in writing, by Mr. Warner. We stated, that if his sub- sequent demands for the enlargement of the Com- mission were deemed advisable, we were ready to withdraw; but that having commenced our labours in conformity with those engagements, we would either proceed undisturbed by any alteration of the Commission, to complete the duty entrusted to us. or resign. , Soon after Sir Byam Martin's appointment, he. unfortunately, became considerably indisposed, and under those circumstances it appeared to the Master-General of the Ordnance, that if the un- favourable state of Sir Byam Martins health should prevent the investigation from proceeding n 2 20 it would be necessary to appoint another Com- missioner; and accordingly Sir George Murray intended in that case to give me another colleague. The Noble Lord, the Member for Staffordshire denies, and does not permit me to correct him, that the intention to appoint another Commis- sioner had reference only to the unfavourable state of Sir Byam Martin's health. I shall set the Noble Lord right, by reading from Sir George Murray', letter of the 27th of March, 1842, which I hold in my hand:-" As Sir Byam Martins health is happily restored, and the apprehension of delay on that account has ceased, the motive for Mr. Warner's suggestion ceases also, for it must be obvious to every one, that it is both for the interest of the public, and fair towards Mr. Warner, that the investigation should be continu- ous, and that it should be begun and finished by the same Commission, if that can possibly be ef- fected." Sir Byam Martin's health having happily been speedily re-established, we met and addressed con- jointly to Mr. Warner a letter, of which the follow- ing is a copy — '« Ordnance Office, 4th April, 1842. '. Sir -Sir Byam Martin's health being re-established, we losenoUme in acquainting you that we are ready to proceed in the investigation of your discoveries with as httle delay as ^ay be consistent with our instructions, and a Ml considera- tion of the important matters you have submitted to Her Ma- jesty's Government. , «1 M We are required, in the first inetance. to ascertain th^ „pe„se which n,ay attend a series of "P*"-^^*' '";;„';; tha\ such a statement may be suhmUted to the Tre sur^ previously to any expense being incurred on the ,.ubUc '''^wl'th this view we think it right to inform you that it is our intention, first, to have your • Long R-g«' "*^>^>;;'^;;,t afterwards a practical illustration of the effect of .he Invisible Shells ;' in both cases the materials to be prepared on such a gcale as you may deem to be necessary for real service, tor your further guidance in estimating the expense of prepanng your material; it may be proper to say, that we th.nk the •Long Range' may be required to be shewn s,x times, and th^'lnvisible 8h'eU. three times ; but in stat.ng the proof ^hich we think might be sufficiently freq«e;.t. .t is by no lelns our intention to put limits to the operations you may consider necessary and satisfactory. u You will be pleased to state if any. and what assist- ance of cannon or otherwise you may require from the Ord- nance Department, or any other branch of Her Maje ty s service ; also, if it is your wish to be assisted by men belong- ing to the Royal Artillery, or if it is your intention to be as- sisted only by people of your own. .. In the first case, it is necessary we should know the number of men you will require; in the last, the charge you will make for your own men. - For the greater security of the secrecy you desire, we shall be very willing to have the experiments made in as unfre- nuented a part of the country as may be practicable, and the place and time known only to ourselves and to such persons as you may require to be present. We leave it with you to fix upon any locality in England, provided the place affords space and convenience for the purpose. . , . , " You shall have the earliest intimation of our bemg ready to proceed with the business, after you have furnished us with the estimate of the expense, and given us the information we 22 require, in order to ascertain the additional cct as relate- to the public department.; all which will be submitted to the Lord. Commissioner, of Her Majesty's Treasury, for the.r Lordship's consideration, as regards a practical application of your invention. " We are, &c. (signed) "T.Byam Martin.^^ •• Howard Douglas." To this we received, on the evening of the 13th, from Mr. Warner, a letter dated the 11th, which will be found in the Parliamentary Papers, from which I read, for brevity, the following ex- tracts : — u You express a desire to see an exhibition of the powers of my * Long Range' first, and then some practical illustration of the efficacy of my 'Invisible Shells.' ,.,.,. '• With regard to the reversal of the order in which the m- vestigation was commenced, I do not think it advisable. As I have already commenced my explanations, with reference to the • Invisible Shells,' to Admiral Sir Edward Owen and Sir Howard Douglas, I think it better to complete that investi- gation first, and then proceed to the * Long Range.' If an experiment is insisted upon, I am quite prepared to make one, and enclose, according to your request, an estimate of the pro- bable expense as well as I can, in the absence of any specifa- cation of what you require to be done. I however submit to your consideration whether this expense might not be avoided, when I can refer, as eye-witnesses, to the following gentlemen now holding high offices of state :-the First Lord of the Treasury, the Master-General of the Ordnance, tue Senior Naval Lord oi I ^ Admiralty, &c. « With such te?ti:no. ' r^ to the actual power of explosion under my control, n ma) be a question worthy the considera- p r- -.->* ~i..va.p. .. vonotUmn of an experiment 01 tion 01 uoverniueni, wucujei « .vj."»-i — -- $ 'I 23 .„ explo.ive ch.r.ct.T n,.y not inor «nn.«...ry "P«»" '"jj !„.. of lime, be.ide. .ho ri.k of u.traoting ,,ublie .>...o.. «h.ch ,o . certain extent U unavoidable, «l.at«er precaution, may *" "buTi n,u.t her. .tipul.'o that in th. event of the e.peri- roent. («ilh the Invi.iblo Shell.) proving -uccewful, 1 have to rp^iitbe .uu, finally agreed upon, and on the reee.,. of the ILy for the InvUible Shell., -ill forthwith proceed to d- mon.irate the power of the Long Range." Thus the House will perceive that whilst our main object was to get to the " long range." and that Mr Warner had been distinctly told by us that we had no power, whatever, to enter on the question of gtmrantee or remuneration, and that although he had expressly assented to arrangements which left that matter exclusively to the cons.derat.on of the Government, he now positively refused to enter on experiments at all. unless we gave some guarantee or promise on the part of the Govern- ment. as to the re.uuneration he demanded. On the 16th of April the Commission addressed a letter, of which the following is an extract, to Mr. Warner; and as this contained a d.st.net spec,- fication of the experiments we desired to w.tness, . is important that I sho.Ud refer to the more material passages of that letter.-See Parliamentary Papers. page 18. -We endeavoured to specify distinctly the experiment we ,.ished to be made; and, referring to our letter of th 4 h Tn^^,., we do not see that we could have been more exphc u , b" in order that there may bo no mistake a, to the extent o M-i-ents which we must witness, we propose these mu.t 24 be made with three of your invisible shells, in a tide-way in a port or roadstead of unequal depth of water; and w.th six of your long range against a fort or battery, and likewise aga.nst a vessel or vessels. , "The expense of preparing your means of making these experiments, we call on you to estimate and report the amount to us. We will make the necessary arrangements tor providing the ve«.2l or vessels against which your long range will be tried and will indicate the fort or battery, or other building or position against which your long range may be directed, and also the vessel or vessels which, by your invisible shells, you engage to destroy. All these arrangements, as to the obiects for the experiments, we will take care shall be pre- pared, so that no delay, or as little delay as possible, may rest with us. , . 1 r • U " In the execution of the very responsible duty with which we are charged, it is our earnest desire to pursue the course most satisfactory to yourself, only stipulating on our part that your powers must be shewn to us on such a scale as is suited to real service, and in both cases under circumstances of ordi- nary occurrence at sea and on shore. •« We therefore readily assent to your wish that the invisible shells may be first tried ; but our report must embrace both classes of experiments, and cannot be made until both have been concluded. "The Commission, now composed of the undersigned, as well as of those who first met you at the Ordnance Office on the 24th of January, come to this decision from the impres- sions made on their minds, on reading your papers, that the long ranae is infinitelv more important than the invisible shells, and that the experiments should therefore be directed more particularly to ascertain the powers, accuracy, and safety of that power. It was consequently decided to make it the first object of our attention ; but in deference to your wishes, it shall be the last ; subject, however, to the distinct under- standing we have before expressed. I 1 r «• ! 25 " You say in your letter now before us, • I, however, submit to your consideration whether this expense might not be avoided, when I can refer, as eye-witnesses of an expenraent, to the first Lord of the Treasury, the Master-General of the Ordnance, the Senior Naval Lord of the Admiralty, the Secretary at War, Lord Hardwicke, and Lord Ingestre.' " If we were to be satisfied with the opinions of other?, our Commission would be an absurdity ; and we frankly tell you we cannot permit ourselves to be influenced by any thing which has hitherto occurred. " We have nothing whatever to do wilh any previous experi- ment, admission or understanding ; we have been named a Commission, to witness and report upon the practical efficacy of your inventions, which you denominate invisible shells and long range, as set forth in your papers, and this we are prepared to enter on whenever you are ready. .. Our wish is that these should be conducted with the greatest delicacy to yourself, and not to extort, nor even permit you to divulge your secret. Charging ourselves, as we have before stated, with making an estimate for providing at the public expense all the objects, materials, or means for mr.king the experiments, which do not involve any knowledge of the principle or materials of the destructive power which you assert to be in your possession ; and with reference to your ob- servation, that you have spent all your means in perfecting this invention, and cannot prepare for these experiments at your own cost, we call upon you to furnish us with an estimate of the amount of the expense for preparing the means which vou only can make, without divulging your secret. With an 'estimate from you of tl.is description, and our statement of what is necessary to be provided by the Government, we shall be able, agreeably to our instructions, to submit the whole expense to the Treasury, which we shall lose no time in doing, so soon as you comply with this requisition. " You say in another part of your letter, or rather in con- cluding the previous quotation, ' With such testimony as to the actual power oi e.piu.ion undei my control, n, .tihv be a 26 question worthy the consideration of tl.e Government, whether a repetition of an experiment of an explosive character may not incur unnecessary expense and loss of time, besides the risk of attracting public notice, which to a certain extent is unavoidable, whatever precautions may be taken. I can, however, but reiterate my readiness to comply with your wishes on this head, if you think good to renew them.' " To us, it does not appear that any experiments have been made either on a scale, or under circumstances, or in a manner to warrant a conclusion that the power, whatever it may be, which you call invisible shells, is applicable, or practicable, under all the conditions and circumstances of real service ; and with respect to the long range, to which we attach, from your own assertions of its prodigious powers, a degree of im- portance infinitely beyond any that can be assigned to any submarine mines or fougasses, whatever be the force of the explosive composition they contain, or the mode of action ; we have nothing but statements which you made of a power so astonishing and omnipotent as must, by your own admission, be incredible to those who have not witnessed it. Nothing, therefore, can satisfy us but practical proofs on a large scale, and under circumstances common to land and sea service in time of war. (signed^ " T. Bvam Martin, " Howard Douglas." With respect to the vessel or hulk, against which the experiments were to be tried, we ac- quainted Mr. Warner that we could not consent to his proposition to provide, or cause to be con- structed, the hulk against which he was to try his alleged powers. We intimated to him, that we charged ourselves with this, as with every thing else that the public could provide without prying into his secret j and that conducting the ■• 1 " 1 27 experiments in a real service manner, he would not be permitted to communicate with, or go nearer the vessel to be destroyed, than he would be allowed to board or approach an enemy's ship ; - that when he reported himself ready, we should convey the hulks to the locality selected for the experiments ; and that the movement or traction of the vessel to be attacked in motion, would be managed by the Commission and not dragged by the assailants to certain destruction. The Noble Lord denies that Mr. Warner insisted on providing the vessel himself. The Noble Lord is again in error, as the following « Estimate," trans- mitted to us by Mr. Warner in his letter of the nth of April, will shew— '. To construct a stout vessel, and strengthen her hull beyond the ordinary strength of a line of battle ship's sides, so as to prove the force of the explosive power beyond all dispute ; to convey this to an eligible site, fill her up on the spot ; for waste of materials and incidental expenses, would amount to some sum between 1,500?. and 2,000/. « I will take this opportunity of observing that a tenth part of the force applied in the experiment witnessed by the gen- tlemen within named, would have destroyed the largest sh.p which ever floated. «' I think it would be better to construct the vessel at a private yard, but previously to being blown up. Government carpenters may superintend her being filled up solid, so that every suspicion may be removed of there being any. internal prepa- ration to accomplish her destruction." I now come to some other assertions made by Mr. Warner, which I shall characterize by no other . - .u^., iU^f ry( Uo'xna- vvlioll V and cutirelv ground- 28 less; and which, as I am not fond of bandying strong words, I shall at once dispose of — «• Sir Howard, in a very peremptory manner, told me I must disclose my secret agent, and explain its nature, properties, and composition, as well as exhibit and explain my mode of operation. This I ai once declined, when Sir Howard said, without such disclosure he could not recommend ray inventions to Her Majesty's Government"— Extract of a Statemmt which appeared in the Times, Morning Post, Naval and Military Gazette. To this, I adduce first the minutes of pro- ceedings of the 19th day of April, 1842, annexed to our report, in conformity with articles 4 and 5 of the Master-General*s memorandum of the 22nd January, 1842. "Present:— Admiral Sir T. Byam Martin, Lieutenant- General Sir Howard Douglas. «• Having at our last meeting, on the 16th instant, decided upon the answer to be given to Mr. Warner's letter of the lltb, he was appointed to meet us, this day, at three o'clock. ••Mr. Warner was called in, and the two following paragraphs read to him : "You have desired in your letter of the llth instant to stipulate for. a reward for the disclosure of your secret, and remuneration of your expenses, if your inventions are proved to our satisfaction. '• The letter now about to be delivered to you is in answer to yours, in which you are informed that we have no authority to entertain any such proposition. We think it right to tell you this before we ask any questions, in order that you may exercise your own discretion as to whether or not you will answer them. " Mr. Warner made no objection to the questions being put. • • 29 ..We then read to l.im this paragraph, viz, Before we proceed to ask auv questions respecting the practical apph- on of your inv;nUons, we think it right ayain to warn you not to impart to us any part of what you term your secret f ".ou do so! it will be your own fault, and contrary to ou , w.hes You will therefore decline to answer any question, yon may think objectionable." The House will perceive from this, that in our letters to Mr. Warner, and in all our meetings w.th him, we invariably charged him not to answer any question, or say any thing that could in the leas tend to divulge any part of his secret, and ihat we as invariably acquainted him that we had no authority to entertain any proposition or stipulation relating to remuneration. , , .. , Two days after this meeting we received aletter, of which the following is a copy, from Mr. Warner, which proves that after everything was prepared, he did refuse to come to the point, unless we made promises or gave guarantees wholly at variance with the conditions to which he had assented. .. Cbrence CAomters, 12, Haymarhet, 10 Api-il, 1842. ..Ge„.lomen,_I have ,„os. respectfully to aokn»wledge the receipt of your le..er of the 16,h instant, m wh.cU you Ite tZyuu Lve no authority whatever to enter .nto any agreement as to reward or retnuneration m^;,,.,., .. As I made this the basis of ray offer to Her Majesty s Gove^lnt, I fee. U impossible to proceed -y J-ther nnt you have received authority to prom.se me on A' P»" »' L Government, the remuneration I ask, .n the event of tny - 30 proving to your satisfaction my ability to effect what I have unfolded in the document, to which you have done me the honour to refer. •' It will be unnecessary for me to trouble you with a more detailed answer to the other parts of your letter, until the ob- stacle above adverted to is removed. I am, &c. (Signed) "S. A. Warmer." To Sir Thomas Byam Martin and Sir Howard Douglas, &c. &c. &c. On the 20th of Mav, we wrote to Mr. Warner as follows : — "20th May, IS\2. "Sm, — We are to acknowledge the receipt of your letter of the 18th instant. " Our functions having ceased by your * finally' declining to proceed to the experiments upon which we were prepared to enter (unless under a guarantee, which we are not autho- rized to give), we should have confined ourselves simply to an intimation of the transmission of your letter to the Master- General of the Ordnance, were it not for that passage in it wherein you say, 'I put it to your candour, whether I have not already made many important disclosures to yourselves.' *' To this appeal we give a decided negative, not only for ourselves, but for the Commission as originally constituted. In all our communications with you, either personally or by letter, we told you, in terms incapable of being misunderstood, that it was not our intention, or our wish, to draw from you any part of your secret; we did more, we warned you not to answer any questions that might in the least lead to the dis- closure of your inventions, and, in point of fact, you have not made any important disclosures to us ; you have made many large assertions, but we have been afforded no opportunity of 31 fulfilling tl.e cliief object of onr Commtoion, nnmfly, the terthig your discoveries by nctual experiments. We are, Sir, &c. (signed) "T. BvAM Mahtin, Admiral. S. A. Warner, Esq. " Howai-d Do«olas, Lieut.-General." The Noble Lord makes a serious charge agiiinst the Commission, that the minutes of what passed between the Commission and Mr. Warner on the 19th of April, 1842, were written, unfairly, after the meeting, instead of being taken down at the t. me in his presence and with his knowledge. Th.s is another error amongst the many into which the Noble Lord has been led by his client, and another iniusticehehasdonetotheCommission.bybelieving this, to their prejudice. The whole of the minutes, questions, and answers, annexed to the proceedings, to which the Noble Lord refers, were written down at the time by Sir Byam Martin, as enjoined by our instructions, in the presence of Mr. Warner, with his knowledge, and without any appearance or expression of objection. The Noble Lord complains that these minutes should have been produced 1 Why he moved for the production of the papers : the minutes of the proceedings were inseparably connected, by our instructions, with the despatches of which they were enclosures ; and the Government had no alternative but to give all or none. This brought to light the affair of the Nautilus, and the destruction of the two French privateers off lolke- stone, to which the Noble Lord has adverted, as to .^:j,-;,.mfm 32 a fact that should have satisfied us.* Then Mr. Warner has stated, and the Noble Lord seems to * The letter, from Sir Byam Martin, and the other docu- ments, annexed to this note, relating to the destruction of two French vessels blown up with all their crews, by Mr. Warner, show the references that were made to the Admiralty, and Foreign Office, to procure the most exact information as to the exploit which Mr. Warner adduced of his own accord, in the subjoined extract from the Parliamentary Papers, moved for by Lord Ingestre, page 20 :— « How long is it since you satisfied yourself of the powers of your Longllange and Invisible Shells ?-About 12 years the Long Range, and 27 or 28 the Invisible Shells ; I sunk two privateers with them at the end of the war, one off Folkestone, the other in St. Valery Bay. What vessel were you in when you did this ?— The Nautilus, hired into the King's service. Who was the Nautilus hired of?-My father. What was his name?--WiIliam Warner. How long was the Nautilus in the King's service, and at what date ?-About four years; I do not recollect the date, but will let you have the particulars tomorrow.t Such an extraordinary circumstance was of course re- ported to the Admiralty? -No, it was not reported to the Admiralty ; we were not under the Admiralty. Who was the vessel hired by, and how was she employed ?— Hired by the Secretary of State, and employed under Lord Castlereagh in landing spies. Was the destruction of the vessels reported to the Secretary of State ?— I do not know that it was ; it might Tiave been. Were the facts recorded in the log-book of the Nautilus?— We did not keep a log-book. As the vessel was in the King's service, did you receive f These were never given. 33 believe it, that I made observations whicli led Mr. Warner to suppose that after he had proved all he head money for the crews of the privateers so destroyed ?— No, it was not claimed. Were any of the men saved from the privateers? — Not one; no one knows the circumstance but myself and another. They were all blown up. "What is the name of the other man ? Can you give the date and particulars of this extraordi- nary circumstance ? — You shall have it all to-morrow." Matlock, Sept. 5th, 1844. My dear Sir Howard, -I have just now received a printed copy of the Warner papers. Amongst the manuscript documents delivered by me there are two notes, one from Mr. Bedford, a clerk in the Admiralty Office, the other from the office of Secretary of State, in an- swer to my inquiry — whether any trace could be found of the name of the Nautilus, or Captain Warner? The answer from both departments shows the diligence with which tlie search had been made, and the complete absence of every thing that could warrant Mr. Warner's as- sertion, that a vessel of that name, commanded by his father, had ever been employed in the public service. This appears to me to furnish such conclusive proof of the fabrication of the story about blowing up the two privateers, HS would at once satisfy the country of the little credit due to iuj assertions made by Mr. Warner. I have written to Sir George Clerk to point out the omis- sion, leaving it with him to determine whether it shall be cor- rected by the introduction of a fly leaf with a note, of which you will herewith receive a copy. (Signed) J. Byam Martin. (Copy.) ''Admiralty, 27th April, 1842. " William Warner, stated to have had the commandof a hired vessel named the 'Nautilus,' at some timebetween the i 34 professed to do, he should receive no remuneration —that I made remarks from time to time to the effect, that after the disclosure shall have been made by him, what was to prevent me from asking £400,000. for the secret.* beginning of the year 1809, and the middle of the s ear 1815 ; to ]>avc been eini)loyed by the Foreign Secretary of State ; and to have performed some service, or exploit, of a distinguished character, on the coa&t of France. " No allusion whatsoever, of even the slightest nature, either to the man, or to the vessel, is to be found in the papers of the Admiralty, for the period. •' And it appears by the enclosed letter from the Foreign Office, that there is not any record of the case, in that depart- ment ; and that all that can now be looked for to elucidate the matter, is that the Under-Secretary for the time (who is about to be referred to), may have some remembrance of the subject. (Signed) " Henry Bedford." '*Mr. Hamilton, who was Under-Secretary for the depart- ment of France during the time to which you allude, as that in which William Warner was concerned in the Foreign Office, has no recollection of any such person; nor has the gentleman who was then at the head of the details of the department ; nor has the person who had the care of the papers ; nor do the existing papers furnish any clue to the transaction sup- posed. (Signed) "James Bandinal." " Foreign O^ce, April 21th, 1842." * The subjoined questions in which the ^6400, 000. ' mentioned, wer'^ put to Mr. Warner by Sir Byam Martin, to obtain some suggestion from Mr. Warner, as to securing the I I i 35 I positively deny that any such conversation took place. The whole of the questions put that day, with the exception of those which followed incidentally from the reference to the affair of the two privateers sunk off Folkestone, were pre- pared by Sir Byam Martin previously, were put by him, and the answers written down by him, and I am now in possession of that document, to which, as I now perceive, Sir Byam Martin affixed at the time the following minute. secret for the exclusive use of the country, in tlie event of its being bought by the Government. " If this be the case, the secret would no sooner be bought than it would be lost, unless the Government gave a6400,000. to every person who may become acquainted with it, and even then they must depend on the integrity of the persons so to be bought ; perhaps you may suggest some way of securing the secret which does not occur to us ?— If you tell people, they will of course be in the secret ; but no one ought to have it but the Prime Minister, and one person under iiim to manufacture it. Then, at any rate, the man who works under the Prime Minister must have his 36400,000., or he would be- tray the secret? — Oh, I do not think an Englishman would do such a thing ; I think it might be kept a secret. But you are an Englishman, and want to sell the secret yourself? — Yes ; but only see what I have done to secure the secret to my country. Do you, in point of fact, believe it possible to keep it secret ? — I am sure it is. How ? — By placing it in the hands of the Prime Minister, and only one other person." c 2 36 •* Mr. Warner lias been treated with great favour anil in- dulgence ; and if all the sanguine projectors who may be expected to present their cor,trivanceP, are to have them proved at the public expense, and with stipulated promises of reward, the national Revenue would scarcely be sufficient to meet their demands. •♦T. B. M." I transmitted on the 3rd of September, 1844, Mr. Warner's assertions, as above, to Sir Byam Martin, and received the following answer. •• During the time I had the satisfaction to be joined with you in that duty, I can safely say that no conversation ofthe nature stated in his letter ever took place in my pre- sence, and, as far as I saw, the whole bearing of your con- duct towards Mr. Warner, was the reverse of what is de- scribed in his published letter. «< So far from desiring to procure from Mr. Warner a know- ledge of his secret, you cordially agreed with me in forbidding him to answer any question that could have the least tendency to draw from him any thing leading to its disclosure. You will no doubt recollect, that in order to give this warning the greater force, I committed it to writing, and read it to Mr. Warner before any question was asked of him. This I trust will appear in the papers which, by his desire, are about to be laid before the public. " No projector was ever more favoured by the Government ; he had every assistance offered to him, men, vessels, and ma- terials, free of all charge, and I can confidently assert, that he received from us every fair consideration and attention. " Ever truly yours, " T. Byam Martin." In reply to the many insinuations or assertions that the Master-General of the Ordnance attributed I Hilii I 37 the abrupt termination of the proceedings to any error or failure on the part of the Commission, or that we had acted in any way contrary to the letter and spirit of his instructions, or tliat Her Majesty's Go- vernment disapproved of our proceedings, it is only necessary to refer to the letters* which we received from the Master-General, approving of our having refused Mr. Warner's proposition, as whoUy at variance with his, the Master-General's, memo- randum, and with the arrangements to which Mr. * •' Ordnance OJice, 30f/t April, 1842. " GENTLEMEif,— I have the honour to acknowledge the receipt of your letter of the 25th instant, by which I am in- formed that the investigation of Mr. Warner's alleged dis- coveries has been brought by him to an abrupt close, in con- sequence of Mr. Warner's having by a letter, dated the 19th instant, ' declined to give you any practical illustration of his powers until he obtains from the Queen's Ministers a gua- rantee for the payment of £400,000. in the event of proving them to your satisfaction.' "Your letter further informs me, that, as you 'know nothing practically to enable you to aflarm or to deny the use- fulness of Mr. Warner's inventions, you are prevented making the report required of you in the fifth paragraph of my memo- randum of the 22nd of January last.' •' The memorandum to which you refer formed the basis of the proceedings entered upon with reference to Mr. Warner's discoveries, and having been accepted as such by that gentle- man, I felt a confident hope that some conclusive result would be arrived at by pursuing the course therein laid down. Mr. Warners present proposition appearing, however, to be wholly at variance with the basis laid down in my memorandum, and to which Mr. Wanter's assent was gioen, I can only state in 38 Warner had assented ; that we had judged rightly in what we had done ; that he, the Master-General, reply to that proposition that I am mthotit any authority from the Gorrrnment to entertain it. " I i^Iiiill retain in my possession the several documents which accompanied your letter of the 25th instant. *' I have, &c. (Signed) " G. Murray." " Admiral Sir Byam Martin, G.C.B. a^d Lieut.-Gen. Sir Howard Douglas, Bart., G.C.B." " Ordnance Office, Idth May, 1842. ♦'Gentlemen, — I have received and read attentively your letter of the 9th instant, and have also carefully perused that addressed to you by Mr. Warner on the 6th. " The perusal of Mr. Warner's letter has not enabled me ta see matters in a different light from that in which they ap- peared to me when I wrote to you on the 30th of April. *• The investigation which you were commissioned to make of Mr. Warner's discoveries was to proceed upon the princi- ple of that gentleman enabling you, by a series of experiments, to form a judgment of the power and applicability of the means which be had found out, and of the detriment to this country which might result from these means being placed by him at the disposal of any other State. But no experiments, it would appear, have as yet been exhibited to you ; and Mr. Warner seems now to demand, that before any experiments are made, a guarantee shall be afforded to him that ho, is to receive £400,000. in the event of the result of the proposed experi- ments being such as to satisfy the Commissioners that his dis- coveriec possess the power and applicability which he himself has attributed to them. " Voii have rightly judged that your Conunhsion does not I "-wtt.i-r «/»r>notnnop mil main" beaucoup d elasiicue a luui les^yaicmc , ^.l.^^— ^ — ^'W^ 49 t * n e r ir e r, It 1- It were easy to adduce from Mr Montgery'^ work, and many others, abundant proofs that there is nothing new in the proposition for submarine mines, as suggested by Mr. Warner.* tiendrait toujours les torpilles a peu pies ik la ni^ine distance de la surface de la mcr, surtout lorsque relevatiori et Tabais- semcnt des marces, ne seraient pas excessifs." •* Cette operation devrait (itre executee de nuit seulemejit, pans qnoi I'ennemi en aurait eonnaiesance el tvitcrait facile- ment la rencontre des torpilles. •« Ces mernes dromes pourraient »e placer de nuit devatr. remboucliure d'un port ou d'une rade enneniie. Et, pour fixer la position des dromes, il conviendrait que leurs extremiifes fussent garnies d'ancres. Ce syst^me reviendrait, comme on le voit k celui des barri^res decrites pour la defense." * We find the following in Pepys' Diary : — " In the afternoon come the German de Knuffler to discourse with us about his engine to blow up ships. We doubted not the matter of fact, it being tried in Cromvyell's time, but the safety of currying them in ships. But he do tell us, that when he comes to tell the king his secret, for none but the kings suc- cessively, and their heirs" (to this Mr. Warner adds Prime Ministers) "must know it, it will appear to be of no danger at all. We concluded nothing ; but shall discourse with the Duke of York to-morrow about it." To these I may add an infinity of names mentioned by Monsieur Montgery from the earliest times. And in our own refer to Bushnel, 1787; Torpedo war and submarine explo- sions, by Robert Fulton, Fellow of the American Philosophical Society, and of the United States Military and Philosophical Society, New York, 1810 ; De la machine infernalc maritime, ou de la tactique-off'ensive et defensive de la torpille, etc. par M. E. Nunez de Taboada, etc. Paris, 1812 ; Colt, see New York Weekly Sun ; Monsieur Jobart, of Brussels, &c. &c. 50 After bestowing a great deal of consideration and research on this subject, the Commission was of opinion that Mr. Warner's invisible shells were of very minor importance, and we attached very little value to them; we consented to witness that class of Mr. Warner's experiments as the only way of getting at the Long Range. We were of opinion that the Government and the country might safely abandon the invisible shell, to any use that the projector can make of it ; but having failed in our endeavours to bring Mr. Warner to the test of his Long Range, upon the fair, liberal and equitable terms which we proposed, according to arrangements to which he expressly assented, we urged the Government to have nothing more to do with Mr. Warner, unless he would forth- with exhibit to competent persons the actual powers of his Long Range, which, after all that has been said and written, he confesses he never has tried against a ship, vessel, or building.* Let * " Can you give any distinct and positive proofs of the severe effect of your Long Range ? " At the Bayonne Islands, at a distance of six miles, if there bad been 100,000 men on the island they would have been destroyed. I could sweep every creature from the Rock of Gibraltar, and could blow up the foundations of the battery called the Devil's Tongue. "(N.B.— Mr. Warner was reminded that this is assertion, not proof.) " From what vessel did you fire at the Bayonne Islands at a distance of six miles? •• From a Portuguese schooner in Don Pedro's service. 51 him place his vessel or apparatus where he likes; let the vessel to be destroyed be brought on a given " Have you, in point of fact, ever tried your Long Range against any ship or vessel or building, so as to produce the destruction said to be in your power ? " No ; but I undertake to forfeit my existence if I do not do so." The following is Mr. Warner's specification of the effects which he attributes to his invention, in his letter dated the 2nd Nov. 1841, addressed to the Earl of Hardwicke, Parlia- mentary Papers, page 7 : — " My system is quite apart from any accustomed system of naval tactics, and entirely novel ; but so simple, that it would be advisable an enemy should be induced, if possible, to look in a diametrically opposite quarter for danger to that whence it will assail him. The most difficult mountain passes might be maintained by means of this power, nnd hill forts, however lofty their site, be attacked or defended with a very small body of men, and without any battering train, or costly vet perishable stores of ammunition. I could, by means of my inventions, have bombarded the town of Boulogne, destroyed the flotilla, and Napoleon's camj) on the heights beyond, with a single vessel, and without risk of the loss of a man. If I had been employed to defend Acre, I could have prevented the approach of the British fleet to within gun?hot of its shores; I could, by means of my long Range, have bombarded Acre from a single vessel, placed in security quite out of the reach of the garrison artillery. I could bring such a fire to bear upon any fortress strong as Gibraltar, that in a few hours not a man should be left alive in it, and I do not withdraw these words. With respect to certainty of aim, I can in the highest sea ensure my aim at a range beyond any distance hitherto attained by any battery afloat. I may say how almost impossible it is, in a heavy sea way, to obtain a sight so as to point a gun on a fixed carriage with any tolerable certainty of hitting an object whoBe posifion 52 day, by a steam-tng to within six miles of his posi- tion, and there anchored or cast loose, directly to windward of his position ; let the same thing be done from the leeward : if under these circum- stances he succeed in destroying or damaging the \\ f. alters nearly every second, as must be the case with a pitching and rolling ship, and can therefore duly appreciate the im- portance of having surmounted this difficulty. I wish not to disparage the efforts which have for now many years been made to improve the theory and practice of naval gunnery, but I plainly assert, that while the efforts have been highly praiseworthy, the success has been very inconsiderable. I could have demolished Algiers, instead of damaging it only, as Lord Exmouth did with his splendid fleet, and that in a vessel which should not have exceeded in the cost of its con- struction and outfit, ammunition to be consumed on the siege included, 100,OOOZ. I would have undertaken in a few days after to proceed and destroy Toulon. Were I to publish such statements in the columns of a newspaper, or promulgate them to the multitude, I could only expect to be derided as an impostor, or pitied as the dupe of my own vain fancy ; but now that I am required to state distir.otly, for the information of her Majesty's Government, what I am actually able to accomplish, I feel in honour and in duty bound, at any tem- porary risk to my credibility, to disclose the extent of the amazing powers over which, after years of toil, study and expen; , I have obtained complete control— I say temporary risk, because I have a firm confidence that time and tric.l will establish my veracity. '• In conclusion, my Lord, I submit the terms on which I am willing to dispose of my inventions to the Government. For the first-mentioned, my Invisible Shells, 200,000/. ; and for the gecond, which I have designated my Long Range, also 200,000/. The time and mode of payment I leave for future arrangement." 53 bulk, I shall retract all I have said ; allow that the studies of a life are at one blow overthrown, and I shall admit that Mr. Warner has made an omnipo- tent discovery, which will give him that high place among the sages of the world, which the Noble Lord would assign him, and supersede all existing modes of warfare. Sir, T must say that the manner in which this affair has been treated and the terms in which the Commis- sioners have been maligned, is not very creditable to the science, or public press of the country, or to the service to which we belong. I say nothing of my- self ; I, individually, entirely despise such attacks and misrepresentations ; but two British Admirals and a British General have been accused of treating unfairly, partially, and unfeelingly; a projector whom it was their duty to treat, and whom they did treat, with urbanity, consideration, and the ut- most liberality. Some, indeed, of the scientific and literary journals did review and express themselves upon this very important and interesting case in an able, creditable, scientific manner, and in a fair and liberal spirit. The Artizan,* (article ix. 1844) * "The experiment off Brighton, indeed, we consider com- pletely failed to prove the invention to possess any remarkable and hithertounknown power of destruction. There were nosuffi- cient precautions taken to prevent any trick, if any such had been intended. The question is, does the invention of Captain Warner, as shewn in the destruction of the ship off Brighton, present anything in its mode of operation, or in its effects, greatly differing from previous inventions ? In our opinion it does not It is known that Mr. Fulton, the American engi- 54 a valual)le and well-conducted periodical ; the Po- lytechnic Review, which 1 regret to find is discon- tinued ; the Athenaeum, (No. 881, p. 829) and some of the daily and weekly journals, have likewise treated this matter fairly and learnedly ; some great organs have been led into error by their mathe- matical department; but I have been most surprised at the articles which have appeared in a highly respectable military journal, the editor of which ought to have known better.* 1 trust the Noble Lord will see how grievously he has been imposed upon ; that the House will think that I have completely vindicated the Com- neer, devoted much attention to the construction and applica- tion of a similar shell. In the latter way he succeeded in de- stroying the hulk of a vessel in the Hudson river, and he was still more successful in the destruction of a ship of 200 tons off Walmer Castle, then the residence of Mr. Pitt, under cir- cumstances very similar to Captain Warner's experiment at Brighton. Mr. Warner must expect his averments of the exten* of the power at his command, to be considered as the exaggerations of a sanguine temperament, until he proves he can accomplish what he affirms." —Artizan. * A friend, eminent in military science and literature, who for many years conducted with distinguished ability, a mili- tary journal, with that high feeling, nice sense of honour, elevated notions, and regard for the character of the service, which should peculiarly distinguish a journal devoted to that honourable profession, shewed to the editor of the Naval and Military Gazette, the authentic documents, upon which I have now effectually rebutted the charges and fabrications which that journal admitted into its pages, and thus have vindicated the conduct of the Commission to which I had the honour to belon tr. 55 mission, of which I was a member, from the impu- tations, aspersions, and fabrications, with which it has been assailed; that the country will see the manner in which Mr. Warner has endeavoured to practise upon public credulity ; and, in conclu- sion, Sir, I trust it will be admitted that the Com- mission did its duty fairly, impartially, liberally, and considerately towards Mr. Warner, in con- formity with the spirit and letter of our instructions: that we had made every preparation that depended upon us, to enable Mr. Warner to prove the exist- ence and efficacy of the astounding powers which he asserts, and that the proceedings of the Committee were brought to a termination, by his flying from the engagements into which he had expressly en- tered with Her Majesty's Government. THE END. I C. NOHMAN, PRINTER, MAIDEN LANE, COVEM GARDES.