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Las diagrammas suivants lllustrant la mMhoda. 1 2 3 1 2 3 4 5 6 MIOOCOPY lESOlUTION TEST CHAIT (ANSI ond ISO TEST CHABT No. J| 1^ i^ i^ ^ .'(PPLIED IIVHGE Inc 14609 USA "-^ ADDRESS ■OF- HON, E, J, DAVIS, CC;vlMISSIONER OF CROWN LANDS In Connection with the Budget Debate of the Legislative Session of 1902 OPPOSITION CRITICISM FULLY ANSWERED THE REAL HISTORY OF THE SAW LOG QUESTION-THE SET- TLER AND THE TIMBER-WISE REGULATION OF PROVIN- OIAL WATER POWERS-THE ECHOING TRAMP OF SET- TLERS-ONTARIO'S PROUD FINANCIAL POSITION- OPPOSI- TION ATTITUDE UNPATRIOTIC. 4\ Intnoduetion. The Budicrt Debate ot tfae LegiNlative session of l»oa wu brou^it to- rn contlu.iion oo the evening ol Kebruar|r llth, the OOTCTninent being ■usUined b)r tlie regular majority o( 11. The closinR address from tte Government side of Uie House was delivered by lU/a. l). J. Davis, Com- misionei of Crown Laiids. Mr. I>avis' department had been critica/od by the Qppo.sition in the oourie of their spee<*o8 and the Commi.'-sioner took advantage of Uie opportunity to bo fully into the several points raised, •udi as the timber question, the efflect ol the timher reBulations upon the settler and the righU oJ the settlei. the uoloniaation of Nerw Ontario ai>d the development of the water powers of the provinoe ; calling attention, also to Uie unpatriotic attitude ot the Opposition in !4Hnrtln« bankruptcy in regard to both natural resources and Provincial ftnancce. When, as a natter of fact, no state in the American Unioo, or ottor Province in Uw Dominion of Oanada is so advantageously situated in either respect. Mr. Davis dealt at length wiUi the Onnosition's claim to the oriajnation of the present timber policy of manufacture within the Dominion, showiivg that the question, to be properly understood, had to he considered in its relation to tlie various American tarilTs and tJie international i«hitionB between Canada and the United States. And the Commissioner showed conclusively that, as far back as 1890, the late Hon. A. S. Hkirdy made home manufacture a part of the regiulations governing tjie timber sale o« t*at year, wtereas Mr. Misoaropbell, M.P.P., did not move his much-talked of resolution until 1893, and then couched it in such lamHuage and maved it in siRh a manner as to preclude its acceptance even had the Government not already recosniaed the prinUpte. To have adopted Mr. Miscampbell's resolution would have restricted aommersal needed only to be stated to carry its own condemnation)— tiie s«te- tuanJin" of the Provhuial ri^tn in connection with the powe. dovekmment at Niagara Falls, and the rifthta of the municipftlities with reference to power. In this connection, also, Mr. Misoamphell found Uwt the Ooverninent had already prorWsd for the cheap development ot the w«t»rpow«t bf the mimii ipialiUM and had amply safcyuarded the I^ro- viiK« and the consumers (if power in connection with the contract at Niafsara Falls. In this niattt-r, as in the timber questdom, Mr. Mlscamp- bell was several years behind the times. Mr. Davis spoke tor Iwn and one-halt hours and his address » \s acknowlerlged on all sides to hive been ime ot the best which followed the Premier's always admirat.te budget deliveranie. Kven the " Telenram," whose sympathies are not often enlisted on tehalf of the Liberal party . pjies yo far as to say : " The achievement of E. J. Davis will stai»rt comparison with any spreih that has been heard in oomipction with the late lamented lliidRet." The "Telegram" alsy) said : " His arguments at no time exhil-ilcd any signs of feebleness or careless study. As a deliveraiice on the hackneyed suhints of the debate it was easily the best that has come from the (iovcrnjwnt side ol t4ia House. Mr. Davis made it plain to the House that he has the Department of Crown Lands in good command aT«d that he is thoroughly familiar witli iH pha-ses of its exactions." The "Star," referring to Mr. Davis' addrem said :— " Mr. Davis delivered the most carefully prepared speech that has been beard in the House in many days. The Commissioner of Crown Lands has the reputation of being an u-vrtmitting worker. His depajtraent has a multitude of exacting dftics md it he were a shirker he would soon be overwhelmed. But Mr. Davis is not a shirker with the result that he is familiar wit* the minutae ot Orown Lands so that he Is able to quote you l*gures by the yard, whiih are, as a rule, in contrast to tiie ordinary run of tacts ajid figures in Parliamen tary debates, as clear as crystal. Tile Provincial Crown Lands and their timber constitute one of tt.> most pro- lific sources of Parliamentary controversy, bocaute perhaps the inem»ers, as a rule, know less about them. Mi Davis made a const ientious elTort to straighten a lot of matters out, and he may be said to have succeeded in eases where minds are open to conviction." Mr. Davis followed Mr. Fov, who wa« the principal speaker at the recent Newmarket .neeting in the interests of Mie Whitney candidate for North York, and of whom tJic Toronto "Glote" says ;-"Plausible as Mr. Foy was. however, Hon. Mr. Javis, who followed, was aMe to overturn some ot the most piomising struttures which he had so carefully put together. Mr. Davis was particularly eltertive in his treatment ot tliose portions of the Oppo-sition plan of campaiBn whi-.h deal with his depart- ment of Crown Lands He dealt somewhat fully wit* the claim advanced by the Oonservativea, that they wers the authors of what is called tke «aw-log policy, and it must be admitted that the cUiin has never been more completely demolished in ttie House" mr. Davis' Address. Thr Ifanurable the ComraisHionfr of Crown I.andii, who was rco happily xiluKtcd as we are. r.Mlni»- tetial applaiiw I Sir. I propose, a liltlo latfr on to ant some data th»t will bear that out, and I would a»l< thr llriu Kcntlenien who lollow on the other side of thf House to be Rood enough to point to any Province in the Dominion or .State in the Anieri an Union that ran c<>iii, hat was lerfectly clear and any man who has had business experieno", and who desires to give careful consideration to a perusal of it, cannot hut be satisfied that e.eryiliiiig has been said that could be said with reference to our financial position. Sir, on that day another budget wa-s presented to the House which will leave ils mark on the history ot the Province of Ontario along with the long line ot statements given by the various Provincial Treasurers during the last 25 or 30 years. (Ministerial applause.) The concensus of independent opinion has for years approved of our sp ndid linancial position. The in- dependent press of the country is taking that position. .Sir, on various occasions papers which on other subjects support the I', en. gentlemen op- posite, have given their honest opinion that if they (U-sired to make an impres.iion against the Oovernment of the day they would not do it by trying to traduce the financial position ■ this Province. Sir, we find also that business men fpetk in the heartiest approval of that manage- ment, business men in our own Province, business men with large mercan- tile interests at stake— men with mote at stake in connection with tJie proper financial manageuient of the country than any other class of people, directly or indirectly. And tie business men of ..'."ler Provinces also speak in similar terms. Go to Cuebec and meet th, business men there, as some of us do from yea: to /ear— from the Marrt. ie Provinces, and talk conndratially with Ui»m men and they will e»pre«ii to you tMt admira'lon of the nianaijfninit ol the iniamei ol the I'lovini-e ol Ontario. Sir, a di.stii«ui-hed Conaetvatlvr, nut very lonn ago in the • Hy ol McB- trtil mid to nir "II ym loiild nnl> move the i il> ol Montreal into your Province and have it under your excellent ilnamhil system, we would consider it a very ftreat advantaRe Indied ." Our poHiiion aa a Provinc* ti one without a peer. We have every reason to connratuhte ourielvea upon the position in wiiiih we tind the Unamial aflairi ol the Provlnrt to-day. ConB«nvative AtUtud* Unpatriotie. .Sir, I want to aay a word with refcntn'e to the attitude ol Hon. entlemen opposite with relcreme to oi r flnanilal pnsitlon, and I want to as!i whether it is a patriotic thinR ; whether it is in the best interests ol this Province or its future development, that Ihey should, from the reapcnsible position which they hold from the lloor of Ihe House, assert thai we are bankrupt and pri-,! tirally In an Insolvent position, and unable to pay our just debts. I would not like to assume a responsibility such a« that. Sir, a member of this House invests Ms utterances with all the resfwnsibllltv which rests upon one In that |>oRltion. And if these state- ments were borne out l>y the public records of the Province, then It would be bad enough, but the public records of the Province indicate exactly tlie reverse, that we are not Insolvent, and have no debt that we have not sulBrient fiinils im hand to reti:e every dollar of and have a ■handsome surplus After that one would almost think that the Hon. gentlemen on the other side of the House would hesitate before continuing such a policy. I consider that the Qoveinment, and the Hon. the Treas- urer especially, is actinf; as a trustee to the people of the Province He has a certain financial responsiMlity placed upon him, and this re- sponsi'Mlity he his supposed to u.se just exactly as he would as a trustee iin any other capacity, and produre the very best result* for the people. The material interests of the Province must be developed, and as we have very lar.p;e undeveloped raw material ttTou^oiit this Province, one of 14ie re- apon.sibllities that tie Hon. the Treasurer has to consWer is how we can use these valuable franchises In the best interest of the people. It may take money to develop them, encouragement may he required to he given in various forms, as in aid to transportation, and in various other ways. This is one of the general principles which must guide him as to whether his expenditure should be larger or smaller. Then the interests of education in this Province are very important. Hundreds of thousands of children attend ou- public and separate schools Wd we are proud to know that the record of our Province in this btaiwh ■is appreciated by all the people. Our children have had every educ ational •oppor*'mity at a nominal expense and we have found during the pa% TMri Uitl W( haw, under MiM poltrf, tuniad out rouig mm Md youai' womrn (ram our public achool* »nt othn iDMtltuUona ot iMtalnt uto have bon t credit to Uiia PrnT«iii« tnd t<> Uw world at larp All Uma latarwta inuNt bt coiwKtend «4iai tlie eaUnialrH tnr tiie frar arc uttdai ooaaldcraUDii. Thai we have another ntj Important leature wliut munt not be overlooked That, m the can o> Uw pour and hel|lle^« throug.. >ut out Province. Theae have not been neKlated in the past and the Trnuunc ol the Province oontinuea to make aoiplr provl.sion (or Uili clan ot people It !■ one o( the rooit iirportiuil mpon^ibilitlMi "stinf upon him to do this well Ontario's Proud pinanei*! Position. Now, sir, I will name only two or Uirte ot the great prlnciplee whlih guide our Treasurer in arranKinx Uw expenill' ; of money year bf year. I deem it, sir, esaential that we must keep abrpa^l ot the times In every walk ot lite in whioli we are en^gaflMl In ti>is I>rovincc. This is an aRe ol oomivtition and it we neglect our opportunitin we are In a short tlma left behind, and in order to put our Province in Uiat position which wi all desire to nee it o— it is developing ; and tlie ex- pnditure which was quite sulBcient a lew years ago in my judgment, is Inaufficirnt to-day. (Hear, hear.) I want now, air, to direct tJie attention ot the House and the country to two or tiree leading features of this budget which was presented to the House. In this fmanolal statement— which it seems to me is ot iteelf as Indication ot the excellent course pursued by the Treasurer during the past year and the very interesting presentation of the estimates whioh he has given to us for the year upon which we have entered— we find first ol all that the receipts o* the year exceed the expenditure by a very hand- some sum ot over »400,000. We ted we have gone through this year and have discharged all the liabilities o< the year and have this much to the good. Tbis, sir, is something to be proud ol. This is something that in any business institution, in any prtrate businesa ot any magnitude would be considered to have' been a great achievement to have So large a surplus on the year's transactions after making provision for all the services of the year. Then, sir, another feature which is worthy of com- ment is this : that the expendituie of tho year has been less than was ■ estimated. Now this is a very desirable thing it you have along with that— p.nd I assume from the fact tliat we have had no discontent as to short expendituie throughout f e Provime in connection with our great public interests thai the people are sat islied— that the Treasurer has lived up to his responsihilitics und the cxpeirditiire has been ecjual to the demands of the Province al'houiih that did not reach, during the year, the amo'.iiit tile House was aslied to vote and tiid vote. TlM'n. sir, on the year's operations, as 1 have said, we have a surplus of $400,01)*), whi. h, ad4lcd to the general surplus we are carrying from year to year — and which lias bwcn lieaia of in this Province I believe once or twice in tlie past — tLaugJiter and applause.)— is an evidence, I think, of splendid financial manaevment. Some of us. who have had ex ( erimcc, in finances and in business, and who would look upon a statement such as this in a practical business way, must aiimit that the liudRct gives lise to satisfaction in view of the splendid financial manaficment of the Province. No Charge of Wfongful Expenditure. Sir, thcic- is en? thing 1 am very proud to refer to. In this debate I have wauhed with great care the 5pee;hi?s made by lionorable gentlemen opposite. 1 have listened to them with pleasure, as 1 always do, and have tried to lind exactly what they consideied to be the weak points in the financial position of the Province. 1 will refer to some of these a little later on, but I want to refer to this feature ni;w, whiih seems to me a rather notable one. In watthing the ccbate— and you will correct me if I am wrong— 1 have yet to hear one single Opposition speaker say that one single sum spent last year was improperly expended. It seems to me that this is the greatest possible tribute that can be paid by the Oprtosition to the flnanc'ial management of this Province. 1 can see, sir, some rea- son why they are very loath to make spe; ific charges against our expendi- tures. We know very well that all sums voted by this House are voted :for some useful purpose. They effect some constituency in this Province and honorable gentlemen see quite dearly that if they ob,iect to certain expenditures here they will strike some people in some con-stttuency or other who will not agree with them and tl-.ey will run the risk of losing some votes when t!;e general election comes along. Mr. Matheson (South Lanark)— Would not that argument hold quite •good in the expenditure of a million dollars 7 Mr. Da«»-I think not, because if the honorable Rentlemen opposite were as careful as they ought to be, and I believe they are trying to be m watching the affairs of the country they would be able to point out certain expenditures that were not profitable in the interests of the people My friend from Lanark has not made a charge of that kind simply because he cannot see a single expenditure that the people liave not had full value for, and for which there was public demand. Now, how has this money been expended ? A large sum was expended for agriculture. Who wants to have that sum reduced ? We all would like to have it inireased and the probabilities are that that sum may be increased in the estimates of the present year. Then I realize that a large sum has been spent for education. Who complains about that ? The poorest man in our land appreciates perhaps more than any other the very rich and ample provision made for the education of his children practically free of expense. I am safe in taking the position that honorable gentlemen opposite themselves approve of the expenditures made during the past year and which are recited in the statements pre.'-ented tn this House. Who I^etafded Neou Onfcapio Development ? Now, sir, I want to ask the House to consider one or two points of criticism made by hon. gentlemen opposite. My friend from South Lanark (Mr. Matheson) made the statement that we did not discover New Ontario until 1901. I do not quite understand wlmt he meant by that stalenient but I will endeavor to give some reascms which perhaps he overlooked U he means that New Ontario was not developed more rapidly in the earlier years than it was there are some very good reasons why that did not take place, and which I will refer to. And then my friend from North Ontario OMr. Hoyle), who I regret to see is „ot in his place this afternoon, made a more emphatic statement. He said that we, on tl.is side of the House were guilty of neglect, that (or 30 years no development had taken place in New Ontario, and it is only now, since Premier P.uss assumed that responsible position, that we are having that enormous development My friend from North Ontario stands, in fact, in wonder and amazement, and alter making that statement he asks '■ What were you doing "' Well that IS a very apt question. I think if he had considered the answer' that could be made to that he might not have Uccu so ready to ask that question. Let us look for a moment as to what we were doing, and what was going on for many years in connectirn with that portion of the Province of Ontario which gives us so much pleasure and pride to-day Now for a number of years some of the gentlemen constituting the Pov- ernment of the ITovime of Ontario years agc^and some of whom now constitute tire Govemii>ent^were lighting to hold Northern Ontario 100,000 S(iuaT« miles of itr-for the people of this Province. What course' -wtrt til* hoB. pstlMsM opposite pwniiSR ? Were Ui«7 aMlng In tbii Titraggle Cor the ri^te ol this Province ? Then, sir, after a iramfcei ol yws the struggle reailted in tbe taking of the case to the Privy Council in Englaait, and the. final and ti-iumphaat vindjoatioai » Province to Uiat territory. And when Sir Oliver Mowat returned from England after winning the suit of the Province we remember the celebration which took place and the pul>lic welcome which was given to him. (Applause.) You would think, sir, that that would have settled ilia matter, lUut friends of tin bon. eenrUemen opposite, at Ottawa, who werv ttan in power, and whb were able to do a great deal to add to tlis prosperity of Ontario or detract from tlici prospe ity of the Provinca and its future greatmss, they set tJiemselvea to work to taka another attitude. What was tliat ? They said, sir, that not one ounce of mineral or stick of timber could the Province bave. " You have got tlie land ; we are sorry for it ; we fought you as bard as we could and cannot help it because tlie Privy Council decided against us; still, sir, we are here to see tliat tou do not have an ounce of mineral or a stick of timber in all that vast territory." (Hear, bear.). Then tba tight was renewed, sir, as the Oovernment of Uie day would not sit down and accept that decision (quietly. The Agbt continued and several yeari more were occupied in deciding as to whetlier we would have the timber and the minerals of the section referred to. Sir, ia it any wonder that during the long period of years occupied in withstanding tin Dominion <3oTemment in this matter, is it any wonder we could make but tittle it any development or progress in tliat section ol the country ? I was glad to hear my hon. friend from West Algoma reier to some of these things. He did it well and can speak with confidence ol that great country, and to no one docs the North Country owe more than to him tor the elbrta he put forth during all those years. Mr. .Speaker that was not all we had to contend with. While this fight lor the mdnerals and lii* timber wad joing on what else happened ? T*e Ottawa friends of the hon. ^nOemeo opposite, who wore in power, not only c4aimad they owned the timihfcr, tut started to dispose of it, and how ? They disposed of vast areas of that timber, very many berths, ol 50 square miles ea'.h, lor the magniflcent •um of IS per square mita ^ound rent and nothing more. These wer» Aaaded out to their political and particular friends. Shoald Hot be Iiost Sight of. Now, this is a matter that never ought to be lost si^t of by tha IMcgile of the Province of Ontario, and it is a lair answer to the repieseot*- tive of North Ontario who take what were the Oovernment doing during «U these years. Ttat ia what we were doing. Figbtisg tot the ritfrts ol the people. Tfien, sir, wa remcnket that, in addition, tha Irienda of Mm to att.act im:.;a^L'ro:T^'jr"„r*o:":r::: *: r "-* ^-^ from thi.. Province to ,h« UniW at ^.^Jo °t7 "''^''*'°" during that oerinrt in .../'"'" *^* """e than ever noticeable settteLnt , That new clLTwM''h'fh*"n •"'■'' '^ '"""" *" «™™ *>» secured for 0,e ul oT Z 1'^,,! ! p""""'"! "' ""^ ''"'^■"^* ■««» 1*:^- r; 1- : -f ;-°- »^'^=.:: t/r^ni- Of New Ontario we „avl ^^'j'"" "" *"'™™^ "' ">"' ->«"' -."^^'on r™ ir.^f ■!??= - r.rrru:e r inWtin, T, Z Lt What h"' ':!! "'*' "" '^" "'"'^ " '» -"■« under s„ch^ adverrcir.rnt ''^i^^rrrrtav:"'"^ ^^'^ ^^"' population in that new country whi hi, worth , "" '""*"* °' gentleman on tl« oppcsile side of the h ''"'*"'""'«■ ' think one given by the hon. me'i^he^or n" th O^d .MrP Tu'""' ''' "^'^ when he stated that Ihere „.„ ' ^ I"*""""), the other day, sound, N.pi..„;rd A^ir po^^^L Vi";:o -'«?:"% "-^ figures were strictly accurate in f»T.kl . '^ '"'"■ '"*"<*" actual condition of'afTairs We flrdtltT irm?" .;'"'" '"'" "'"''' was a population of 15,728. Th rty^^ r Lter '"""'J'^'^'^^ *••«« dimculties Which I have enu^e^a J,'a d "the s wh.ch , " r?'' *'" time permitt«i. u,e Population ha «rown until a Vol 1"^ *° " Dominion census tal™ in Maxc*, ISOl'^it ITrLZ.Z,-,^ Z ' . c«..:s .1 jre/ : tr:veri^:^„.^tp;a",,.:T""* """•*" -^ '-"■'^ ^ ^d^lZe^ :hr:rcZrr -J::;!: - --te the pro... transportation facilities enjoyed t»-day with th„t '""^P"'^"" -^ the ago. In the year 1881, only ao^ars a^ J. '^ '" '""r '^ '*' ^'"' Of a country, or in the n.tiLal Hfe TprZT.lZZi: "^ "'T period the mileage of railways, which were onlylT inZT I ""^ "*"' 1,851. Muskoka and Parry Sound hZl,>iT, , ' ''*'* """^ Bay and Bainy River. ^923 Xirg21otl' H''' '" ^^-^^ speaks part of the volun«s whfch one «n' splak w ^ - ' "'' '^' ""'" way development in that section of ,rCfnc. w !"""* *° *^* '*"" time several railways underdid! We have at the present There is the Ont^TSt'aTT,''" ,°" J'°^'^ '" ""^ 0"*«'»- completed the ottrdafa^d at tlL '""'' ""*"*' '«'^««'»y »m.o,u.h«,°thTp?:Lr ,t^«:::r%ii^'rr'^*'" '*^ -^'^^ odd miles run through that ^7^ 1 '* '"* Pf»'ti'*"y 26^ """S" that great and important section of this Province. Ttiat railway was aided Xi^ the Oovernment ot the Province, or "hy the peopte Tthe Province because it was the people's money, and the Treasurer is sin>. ply the tj:ustee handling that money, as I have said before. It is true tAiat opposition Wcl.^ made by hon. gentlemen opposite to that railway. They declined to vote a thousand dollars extra per mile which was required in order to put it in a position that tlie promoters might go on with the work through a country whith presented great natural difficulties to railway construction. This side of the Hfiise believed that that expendi- ture would be a wise one in the intere.sts of this Province, and the money was, therefore, voted, and to-day we have the advantage ol a railway service in the opening up of that very large section of the country in the Rainy River district to the great benefit and advantage not only ot the settler but of the people of the older portion of the Province as well. Opposed ConstPuction of Algoma CentPal. Then, sir. there is, in addition to that, the Algoma Central Railway, which is under construction ; the Manitoulin and North Shore Railway, which is also under construction ; and the Government railway to the Temiscamingue, which has been surveyed to some extent and in roigard to which a bill is l^eing brought down this session to provide for the coit- struction. It is, sir, of great imi>ortance to show that there has been much development going on under dilTreult circumstances. T.et me, there- fore, show you what iht Algoma Central Railwav means to that section of country, and to the older distiicts of the Province as well. That railway, we all remfjiihcr, was opiNi^e! by hon. gjentlemen opposite from their places in this House, as they had a perfect right to do, taking a position which they Ihnuf^ht, in their wis5d^)m, was'iji the Intereits id the people of the Provimo, What way the result? We find that alveady, although only a very small portion, of thul line is lompleted, results Y.axe Vieti a^.hieved which have added to the welfare and prosperity of this country in a very marlied de^ '■ I>et me uive you an illustration. A little over a year ago some members of this House had an opportunity of visiting the town of Midland, situated in the constiUienty whi'h has been represented by my hon. friend from Kast Sinuoc-. He voted against this railway, too, and yet he is proposing to be a candidate for a constituency in this new country throiugh which the railway runs. 1 assume the people there will appreciate the assistance he has given them when they understand he opposed the construction of that railway on the floor of this House in the strongest possible manner. Now, sir, what was done in one instance in connection with that railway ? There . as a great mine— a very targe one, in the Michipicoton Division, the Helen mine--contatning very valuable iron ore, the ingredients of which wer» superior to any Canadian osc which bad hititetto been found in W» history of tltis couatir. And the result tos that ttiey built a portion of this line from the mine down to the bay and water front and bought a line of steamers, which was a stipulation of the contract" and during these two seas«^ they have been shipping large quantities ol ore V) Midland. When we were present at MWland at the opening of the new blast furnaces, we found enormous quantities of ore upon the dock»- ore from the Helen mine for the use of that smelter Had that railway not been constructed, sir, how would they have got the ore down ' The a(h,everr.ei.;s of whic* Midland is so proud, and which have added so mateiially to the northern town would have been impossible had the hon gentJemen opposite had their way. Mr. Koy— That road would have been built without the bonus. Mr. Davis-Wbat authority has my hon. friend for making the state- ment that the road would have been built without the bonus ? Mr. Foy-The Hon. the Provincial Secretary, who sUted tJiat it was the greatest mine in the world, and therefore demanded and could have paid its way. Hon. Mr. Davis_In reply to my Hon. friends statements I must re- spectfully remind him that when the Algoma Central Railway bonus was under discussion, that it was shown him that this railway couW not have been carried through that northern country without aid from the Province of Ontario. Mr. Foy— I am speaking of that 12 miles. Hon. Mr. Davis-Weil that is only a very small proportion of tiiis great railway which must be cmisiUcred as a whole. And then, sir, not only that , tli»re is another thing to be umsidered, too. With that one little link of railway tlicy could only run their ore down a short ii, ■ i each year owine; to the close of na'.iKation during the winter season. Now the railway v, .1 Le used aU through, and they will be able to get oie do-vn from the mine througliout the entire year. In addition to the advantagts ol the road, the quality of the ore made accessible is of great value Previously, owing to the quality, only .1& to 40 per a. ol Canadian ore could be u.sed for the mixture required to produce the proper kind of pig iron, the balance being imported, but of this ore some 76 or 80 per oent. is iiswl and they produce from that a very magnificent iron which is quite suitable for the commercial trade of the countiy. Bnoptnous Mining Development. Then, sir, this is only a feature of the developmente that have taken place in that northern country during that time. We have enormous min- mg development which has gone on during tlie past lew years in that portion o( the Province under xnut disadvantage. Sone ot us who have travelled in that country and visited various mines have wondered at the pluck and enterprise that many of these miners have shewn in Betting in, without any transportation facilities, heavy mining machinery at great difficulty and expense, to open up and develop the mines. Speaking ol mining development. I want to say a word or two about the advancement of the Sudbury district where there has been a most extraordinary de- velopment during the past two years. Two years 34:0 I visited that place uid was there again quite recently, and the progress which 1 personally noted on the otcasior of my last visit indicates conclusively that Mte oiAr put of ore and ore produce in that district has more than doubled ir the last two years. As large a development has occurred during the."e two years as had taken pla« during the entire mining history of the district, and every indication points to the (act that '•''at development will be more tiian doubled during the next two years. My hon. friend from South Lanark remarked that the expenditure has inireased from year to year. Now, sir, as I stated a moment ago, it is not to be wondered at if the expenditure does increase Horaewhat. In fact, it ought to increase when we consider the enormous growth of the Province, and its requi;e- ments. ''hat do we find when we appeal to the financial records from year to j'ear ? We And that the Increase is very small when compared with the enormous growth of the Province, and the increased work which is being done. I had some figures prepared regarding the Crown Lands Department, which show the position as far as the staff of the Department is concerned. In 1873 there were 46 officers in the Department, pernun- ent and temporary, and the salaries paid were, in the aggregate, $46,313 annually. I find that last year, 1901, the number of officials, permanent and temporary, were 49, an increase of three, and the expenditure $52,495 — in 29 years an increase of only $6,182 in connection with the staff of that Department. Now, the work has gi iwn enormously, as all the mernbers of this House know. Als-o several new branches have been or- ganized, including Colonisation and the Bureau of Mines, and the surprise is that the expenditure is so small when we consider the amount of work to be done. Pine Faf prom Exhausted. We hear in this debate, and we have heard it before, that the timber in this Province is just about gone. 1 have heard that statement during, all the years 1 have been a member of this House in every reciurriOfi Budget debate. Now, I want to point out again, what seems to me to he a very unpatriotic course with reference to the resources of this coun- txy. The statement made by Hon. i^tlemen opposite, is tJiat the pine is practically all gone, that almost everything was sold at the last sale. TVae remarls ^o out throu(5h tlie country, uid to otlw counttict tM "w. who mt down in otter Provincw and other Wnii and ,««| Uie n^ttcim, ™d. .n th,., EIou» by .nen.tor, av. from 700,000,000 to 900,000,000 feet of pine timber. Mr. Conmee— More than that. Hob. Mr. Davis-Well I am very careful, Mr. Speaker, to be on the ^H ' *""''* """ "nderHHitimate than ovei-e«timate in a matter MB tins We are continually ftoding timber in ..reaa when we were not previously aware timber eiisted. In other areas of the Provinw we have terge quantities of pine, and so it is very unfair that memhers of thui House sbouM allow stat«nents o» that kind to go abroad which are not l»rne oirt by the records and the statistics of the Province. And sir in addition to the pine we have other Umber of great value. Our pulp wood IS of such enormous c(uantities that it will furnish a large and Increasing amount of revenue, year by year, tor practically all time to COTM. m>y do I say this ? In our recent eiplorations we have found aihout ttiree hundred millions of cords of pulp wood, and those who are ex- perienced in dealing with timher reserves tell us that pulp wood will reproduce itself in from M to 30 year,. This being so we realise that with ihat very large quantity ol pulp wood, it is advisedly in tlie interesto of the Province to have it made use ol as fast as practicable, and then, in areas unsuited to agriculture, it can be allowed to reproduce itnlf under our system of refoieBtry. Uopatniotic Httitade of Opposition. I w«nt to emphasia, aa strongly aa 1 can, that it ia not paUiotic, or m the utereste of this Province that memhere of this House should mi»- .epnrantthe position o( the Pravtece as Iw ib our great end hnwrtbot tim- ber resources are concerned. Now, aa to ttoeale o( timtaei, bon. genttamea opposite complain. Hy Hon. friend Iron Sonth Toroeto, who is not h> his plaoe at the moment, was good enoii|;h to make use ol the oaaertioB that. il we had $500,000 ooonns in aa a hos« hom Mmhei m1«s last yew, aa4 tlmt was . good thing, all we ««iulrt! to do would be t<, «11 a great deal more and get a million or a million and a haU ol dollars, and that wouM he even more satisia.tory. Now 1 do not tlunk .hat argument w.ll beat investisation. It is like the argun^nt that we nright spend a million more dollars in the Province U^,an might be necessary U .> not a good „ wise thmg in soil timber ,f it is n.it in the i^.tm-ts uf the Province to dispose ol it. WTiy is timter sold ' Nnt prima. ily for the purp.«e ol ■jbtaininK reven.«. Most of Uie tinvl«>r sales hine taken rla>e when bonuses from this source were not required in ,.rd*.r to 1-e.p the liniimcs of the Province right. They are sold, .... general principles, for specil.c reasons whict xeem to the trustees of the people, tor the time being, in the inter- ests of the Provtac*. What are those reasons •( To rievent loss by lire is one of them. It is not because timber has been burnt over always, but to prevent fire. Prevention .s a proper course to p.irsue and a wise man will look ahead and see W-.e.,her there is any danger to the timber in certain districts of the Province owing U. the development which is gomg on and if they believe that there is imminent danger of this timber leing lo^ that is the proper time to dispose of it by public auction a..d leal.z* the revenue from it tor the people. Railway .l.-v.-lupiHcni is one of thee great dangers and it is well known that during the last three «r four years there has been •.■-usoal activity in railway const riictic. in that portion of the Province. This has caused two sales of timbt; to take place sinre I have had the honor ol holding the posi.ion which I now do, being responsible to some extent for the conduit of timber sales in con- nection with that Derartment, and I say, wUhoul h.Mtation 'h»'. "'";>• judgment, I c uld not justify mysdlf before the peo;,],., wi h the informa- tion 1 h.;d at hand, had 1 not brought to the attention of my colleagues the inipoitan.e of disposing of certain timber which was imminently n danger of being destroyed by fi:e from railway construction aid also owing to minii'g development aid exploration going on in these Qistricts. Eehoing Tramp of Settiens. )i„t, sir, in addition to these two features to which 1 ^^^^ "l"'^^' there is another which also has a bearing upon the disposition of our pme and that is the echoing tramp of settlers. And there never was a tme fn the history of this Province when thai tramp was heard more emphatically and more steadily than during the past two y^'^j;-- J^^y"^ c^n sav, SI , from the information that comes to us from our Lolon^at o,, Branch, thai this year is going to be a banner year as '^.r nie asf m^ ment of Northern Ontario is concerned. (Applause.) Let "» a>,k my hon Iriends this question in connection with tlie disposition of the pine^ Su oose we allowed railway construction to come up to our pine areas' sLpose we allowed mining development and settlement in among our valuable pine deposits and then there was a large fire and the er knciw of tlie dunwr as well as the (iov- ernment ? iMr, Daws— :n rei ly to my hiiiioriible Iriend, I Uunlv ! lan safely s-ay theie is jiot a more -hiewd, cal. ulatiiiR h'I of business men in tli« ProMnce of Ontario iluin tiie 1; iiibi'i men. They examine these bertlis care- fully when put up for sale and tliey ladupon them up to the very last cent at which prolit I an lie made out of hariillins the timlier, and they know the risk.s from tire .iusi as we know tlieni. I said a moment ago that mutieys reieived as lionusi'S, in my jii'dKnient, ouRl.t to 1« plaied aniouK the ordinary reicipts of the year. I know, sir, that in makinj: that statement I am opposing a |)rinciple laid down by the Hon. gentlemen opposite, but I submit, sir, that their theory, wliuh tliey am n<-e to thi- Hou-e. tliat the iMimis on timber sales should not lie Loiiside.ed as ordinary revi-n c. p.ovcb too mut-h for them alttiRvtliei . Mr. l-'arscallpn- Will ll:e lion, centleman explain what is meant by " hours '■ on tinilier sale^. .Mr. Davis— Hon. grnUemen op|po^ ite will remember that when timi*r .sales aie held the Crown Lands Department survey the area to be s< Id into berths, eath hertl. being; designated "A," "U," "f," "D," or what- ever tliey are called. The repnrus of tlie timber estimators with regard to eadi of these berths are lorwarded to the dopar'jiiient. The sale is adierti/eii lo take plaie on certain days. We take the estimates of tim^er and finiire out what we think is a reasonable prue for the first richi t(i Cut tin fr oB that berth. Tiis figuie is set down as the upset prie. When the day of sale conies if that pi re is not reached the limit is not sold. What is meant 'ov timber bonus is what we get for the first riuht to er snuare mile. The lionu;. is merely the privilege Ihcy buy in public tomretition for the lirsl right to cut on that territory. OPdineipy Pceount vs. Capital Peeount. Xow, as I said before, the argument of the Oprositicn, with regard to the revenue derived from the .'ale of limits proves entirely loo mu"."»««*'*""' ■!'"• perly capiUl erpetwliture., if you art solnft to «««»l »«»'' •* ■» ™*,,*!;r bow do othw Oovernmrot. deal with tbew amounW "•«*«! I-;^ ^' „^J Hon. Kenllemrn on the oppoHite Mt «lve un no '•»«'. «*V "*^u,*r°!™ Ihould be placed on capital account and 1 have no* yet hMl an .Ihirtratwn trom their side o( the IIouw where any other Boverrurwit has adopted «Kh a courw as that. I dnd that Nova Scotia, wheii Sir Charte Tappet controUed the dertiniw of that Province, dunnj^tht Mme he w" Pte^er pine timber waa sold and the amount rweived went into the ortinary receipts ol the yeaj. When their iriends were in poWvf in the Ptovina o( Quebec they sold timber and on examining the accounU yoo will '»'* °» these grounds that such argumente ought to l« dropped from the discusrfons aa the floor of this House. But sir, Uiere is another reawii Khiih to my mind, of Itself alone is sufficient to annul the aigumenta ThBber is not caprUl. Timber is simply the rim crop on that ^n* "* when that crop is taken oH the ground -reduces something el«_ «« ""jr that in old Ontario the tlmbw WaS . it down and destioyed '" »• purpose of reaching the great capital-the land itse . And *»<• !»«« » vWittg millions and millions of d.^liars to the wealth and prosperity of this country trom year to year. (AppUuse). And, sir, this »i;^'» » all clasws of land upon which our timber grows. H it is agricultural land settlement comes in and we have a secorrd capital producing crops year by year But even in areas not suited lor agricultural purpo^eB, in my opinion, the argument is jurt as good, betau.se these are the "«« we a« setting apart (or the purpose of relorestry and tlie pine will agara te vaJuwble, altl«ough it will toke a longer time to reproAice itself than it wouH in the ™^^e of pulwood, which reaches maturity m a mu* '^?". •**'°" SctT I propose to refer to *e recorfe ol this House and think I can .bow IB k s.ti»(actory iiiMner Uiat they b»v« no right to nmk« U»» Utra Wh»t >» U« ,.tu.l>..n ol that In the year imt. as part ol the Oo^ernnienl poluy Now il Hon. »entl«.».> o| po .le who will follow n« in Ui.s debate can ««! 'om tte wurnals ol the House a resolution that tney siihniilted to thi. Hou«t preuous to IHIlii slatinn that that wa» tlifir poluy and urging it upon the Ailmlnlstratlim ol Ibe day by whom it was >ol«l down then 1 would be very Rlad to Rive tJicni irrdit, wi.u* I cannot Kive to them under Uw til cumv lances as llicy really exist. Now what do we ni.d ■ I sutoirli, Mr, that tiie only way V. aenoune. a policy that ym can stand by, and which will have any weight muet h» by a re olulum placed b.Iore the Ho. *, or by the Ooveinmenl ol Uie day by ()rder-.n-Council j1 Miat Hover. ™t in k-ftal lorm and placed upon ,e-ord which can hr reached. Ma ...n sUten^nts in all kinds ol upeecfau at any lime as in t>e paM, is not a detinile announremeni ol policy^ A gjeat many things aie s.iid m siw^cs and 1 would be very sorry, inntaid, t« hoU hon. gentleiiUT. responsible lor a great n.any o( the stalemenls made In their speeches during the last two years. No doubt they are made in » period ol political exciUmeiil l*canse il those stalemenUi were correct Jio majoiilv ol us on th's :,ide ol the House would be in prison at the present tin* ins'tead ol in tlit Legislature, hi 1891) the late Hun. A. t>- H»nly. "m ol the most distinguiahed public men this Province ha;, prrjucwl and who was Ccnumlssicmer ol Crown I.and.s at that time, decided tl at it was in the mter.. ts ol the peopU- ol the Pi.-vmc ■t to sell certain timber L-rlte, and ako decided that in the sale ol that yeai a clause shouW be in«Tted in Uie regulations governing the sale requiring that the logs cut oo the ar*i sold should be manulactiired into lumber in Canada That is the flrst time that a policy of this kind was announced and put into operation by this House. Thai sale took place. My hon Iriend, llie leader of the Oppositior., spoke m Victoria Hall in this city on September 4tb last, ajid enunciated what then was supposed to be his policy, or the plaUorm upon which he was then to appeal to the coumtiry and I have no doubt it was prepared with great fa« and consid- eration and with such due thought and deliberation as a leader ol a great Party wouW be e*pec**d to give to an acMress ol that kind. 1 am not so sure now, from certain indications which are abroad, that this is to he the policy upon which my hon. friend intends to appeal to the country. There are some ."igns that this policy i.s not considered to he quite ade- ouate lor the work in hand and that another policy is now to be formulat- ed upon which he will appeal to the people. ThU, 1 may say, is the right and privilege ol the Opposition. We welcome any policy or sugges- tions whioh they have to make, only hoping that they will be in the inter- ests ol tlie people of the Province, and we are prepared to meet these several policies as they come before us from time to time. mi». Whitney's Poop Memopy. Now I see that my hon. Iriend, in this speech, claims lor his sWe of the House the responsibility for this timber policy and he tells us, »pe«lr- ing of this sale ol 1890. Uiat the Oovornment " In one sale imp condition that the logs sold should be manufactured in Canada, or ( v.. . -I toruM which." With all mpfct vilt mj huB lileiki allow m* to iiu«RMi that In his mpoMibl* poaltlon o( nwkuin an announccnwiit of tlv platform ol hi» IHuty the prople wouW rranimably f«p«t that he bad Hiven ilunr mouKh ron.iMeratlun to an Important matter ol thin Wind to know dellnilfly whHher that mn did mean OnVatio nr (r.nada, be auie, In my opinion, Uitre m a vrry icreati dlflerrniT brtween Ihf two. Then Ihr hon Iradrr ol the Opposition Bii« on Ui say " What waa the elfctt ■' All the tmibrr limita to whiih tlii« appliiJ, fxirpt two or thrfe, were situate north ol the height ol land and \mUm you took the »awlo(Ui to lliihinan in a lalloon Ihcy never (oiild fto e that should he in.'erted in the agreement, in order tirat no disposition ol them could be n>ade other than in conformante with tills new policy ol the (iovernment. Then the next feature we have to deal with in connection with the timber pclicy is a motion whiit we Itoid in \H93, which is quoted i;y Mr. Whitwy ill his speech. Now this is the ilrst motion that I am i.ble to And n the joiirna s «! this House KivinK any indication ol the views ol the Opposition on the timber qiir»1ion This was moved hy the meiiiber tor Ka«t Simcoe, Mr. MisianipUll, in the year 1«93, and it reads as (ollcws, " As tills House disapproves of the policy ol the disposition ol timber rcwTves of the Province withm' its approval being first obtained." Now, you will see the leature that is i \prrssed in that policy. I)y this resolu- tion, before any tiiul.' r comld be di posed cjf at any time by public auction, by the (Joccrnntent of tlie day, it would be ii(*ce'iury that that should be subniiltpd to ihc House and rcc^'ive its approval lA'fore aciuin t oiild be taken As was pc inlcd out .ri\ iiroperly by the memlier for West Alwnna the Hoiis*- is only in sevsicm 'nee a year uiid many mcmiiis cla't;se betwven se'sicms:. Tlicre '. , oli»-niintes, where timticr is daiiiai;ed by lire, that the timber shcjuld be sc Id promptly iu ordi'r to |oe\ent its destniitioli by worms and l.e i i rng i ra''ti' ally use less. Thns we couH not support that feature of the resolution. TIcn Ijie tw .Huiicm i ontiiuies : " And i.s ol tbe opinion that the ricrht to cot limber upon tlie pre-sent reserves she iild be sold under such ccmditions as will insure the manu- facture of jhe timber cut within the Province." Now, I would like the House to notice that slat'ement "within the Province." This couM not be worVed out without difhciilty We do not desire t<) raise a ('hin<«e v. all between the Province of Quebec and the Province ol Ontano with the long river line dividing Uie two Provmcet. Would Antagonize Quebee. What would the reeult ol that be '• It would mean that certain mills situated within our Province but receiving their logs from Quebec, and aome situated in the Province ol Quebec and receiving their logs from Ontario, wouU be eltected, and the Provinoe ol Quebec would ni^turally (eel MMt the)' had t pnttit ritiht tu rrtaliate kftmst thii Provincv in irlmlUr Bitten lit UadfT This was a vrry atrimx argument to the Itnuse durinn the debate iipun the rraolutiun, which cumli(ded as Idlliiws. " And nii»e eflectuall)r Kuard aKalnitt the unnevessart cuttiiiK and itrsiruition (it the anall tliiitier urnwinn on >uih re»tves." Now that 1^ a dincroil feature altonelhcr in that restiiuthm ot mill. Ihf inrinlMT dir Katil Siimi* dwit not nia»e any priitisiim rxiei t (iit 'he disjiUMi urn iit Ihr timlicr wild in tile (iiluriv Niiw that pull' y httd liivn in nit'iathin Miice l«!«i. was put in operatiiiii by Ihe late linn Mi Hardy whin ('mnnii^siiincr nt Crown LandN. so that that rrsoliitinn did mil dn any iimrc than innMrni what we were alri-ady dmnn and iiitlnded tlu' ^cry narrow stirt-uK with reler»m» to (^ueliec whirh 1 think we will all aurw was very unsound. Now, in the year ISIO. when the next liiirlier s,ili' took pl,ue. the condition of tbinga waa a little different A (I'w months alter the sale ol IKtIO an arrani^nient had ben urived at brtwtrn tlir Donilnion (tovrrnment, representi'd b>' Sir John Mardonatd, and the l'nit«l States (ioverniiient, wit^ relereiKe tu llu> distribution ul loi£.s and luniber. A mutual agree- BKnt had iHt'n ri'.uJicil The two luunlrlrs had lnvn liichiinn this iiuesMon of export duties on logs and lumber between Canada and the United States tor a number ol years. .Sonwllnics the Dominion (iovcinmint duty on logs was »2 a thousand and sonu'times s:i a thousand, ami at other times were exported Iree, and he Anieruan (iovenimeiit iharRed a duty on lumber Irom *1 to *.') ■ - thousand. However, .bey eame to a ii' .ual lutder- standin); in the fall of llliio when it was aRiecd ihal IJie Amrriian Gov- ernment should (harge $1 duty on luioiier i;iim^ from Canada t^i the United States in return for wbi h the Dominion tioveiniuent aicrerd to take the export duly entirely oil logs : and that was the condition ol affairs in 1N1)3 ..'n the Hon. Mr Hardy had tpe t. The timber U'rth.s wl i -h were to be miW m the IH'.)2 sale wvre lierths upon the Ottawa river, the loRs from whirh lould not lie ;ihi|»pcd to the United States to advantage, as these logs :n Ihe sale of IXiHi miitht. As a resuH he eimcluded that it would l« In ih I frv't of the Province and the (onntiy not to | la<« that restricticn in this sale. And what has been t*e result of that ,ate ' The i-ale was heid. and iillho^Rli an lmroaj:e of 2S per rent was made in the timber due.-:, the largest priie e''ei obtained W.1S paid .TS a bonus and. of the B.'tll miles sold, 7» miles went to Ameri- cans, and from this 78 miles to this dav not one log has been cut for exportation. One Canadian, who puriha'ed a four mile Umit, has sold live millions ol leet for export, and this is the entiie quantity wbiih has gone out of territory included in the timber sale of 1892. So that the position practically was maintairied from fclie fact that timber berths were soW in a region where they could not be profitably exported to the United States. Now, then, what was the next move ? I have given you the mot .111 by the member for Kasl Simcoe in 189.^. Then there waiJ aaother itiMion in 1894 by that honorable Rentlenuin and these seem to be tlie only two re.'volutions tJiat I can find in tlie journals of the Houee from ttw I opposite ide, previous to the motion they made in 1897 dealint; with tiiis P«"™B all l<^s cut in this Province on Crown Lands to be manufactured here and not exported to the United States Mr. Foy-Does the hon. gentleman road the opposition speeches ' Mr Davis-Certainly, we follow the speee tlien adjourned, and Hon. Mr. Davis continued his remarks after dinner in the evening in the fi>llowiiig strain :— " Mr. Spealicr, when the House ruse at 6 o'clodi, I was about to talie up a question which had been rai.-.ed by several gentlemen on the opposite side of the House during this debate, criticising the position oc- cupied by new settlpis going into our new lerritory. The hon. niemlwr for South Lanarli (Mr. Matheson) made a statement that settlers cot no eiicouragcment, that ll;e lumtermen, ^nd the railwais and tliose who had the pulp cumcssions got everything the e was in that new couutiv. The hoii. member lor Kast Vlitoria '.Mr faniegiei made a stalimont 'that the setlle.s didn't pit even the timl)er, other than the pine. While he reiog- ni 'M.nisirill Af! The Ppovlneial Supplus. Hon. KPnllenirn opposite have, during' this debate, ininrmpd us as thev have mtormed i>s i„ delates of a similar character in the past that our ^Ll?h rtl it ^.l",K "'• J*""' "''*" "'"'*'''"" "'■^ Conmi.sioner's repcrl which deals •ftiih the .surplus and general eyiervdit„re and receipts , ( the statemerit of the Royal Commission and exaiuining the budget statements for the past few ^ars as issued by tJie Hon. tl.e Treasurer the (inancia? .mTn"!?.' .""c":,'! *"." '""""'^ ">■ ""■ ^'"'''"f "' ">i' P'o^nce, thai I am unable to fid the discrepancies of which hoii ^ntlcmen opWidte complam And I am unable to l:„d that at any tinio during thes^Tea s that the surplus was improperlv stated bv the Hon Treasmer oi this Province m the annual statement presented to this Houe Now sir I,rll"'ZA l^'^^^T"^ ^^^ '■''^"' ""' <" consideraMe time the Trea- surer made his statement showina a surplus of a *ts over liabilities presently payable. There «..s no statement made in the T easuter^ rr^Z;w."/th%%r*^'" ■*"""• "'*'*'«""'^*^ "="''1''''^- 't ^ ^ol pretended that there was not other liabilities ard the statement itself simply said that the liabilities presentlv due amounted lo c*rtarsums ,^ money. I find in the Statistical Year Hook for 1900, page 491, a table compiled by the Royal Commission, and in comparing these years with ttie statements Dy the Treasurer I find that thev practically agree b.J''„'i'"'"^'*.U*''^ "^l^ "l ""^ '^"y^' Commission, which T have in my hand, page 29, state* with referent* to tJie year 1899, that the total ^nt tdt ll r A'x'tl'CT th^y say-this is the Commissioner's state- ment-that there is a surplus over all lial;ilities of $2,268,-l9S 44 and this practically agrees with the Treasurer's statement tor that year.' Now we have the Treasurer's .statement's certified as correct by the Auditor from year to year. Then as a result of an examiS. of thi Provincial accocnts by the Royal Commission, composed of experienced «„Tnue'',o ten T'^'T "^ ™"'*^'™<'- «'"' """ ^•'™>«-" oP^'^e continue to tell the country we are hopelessly in debt, without giving one tittle of eci*ence to sustain their unpatriotic assertion. Under such c" cumstances the House and oountry will prefer to take the opinTons of ttie Treasurer, Auditor and Royal Commission to be correct. H.i,r°T*'\t " r'f,"' *""• '"■*'■" "fet*"^^ to that debt, >he .ailway f^' J^\ 17^ "J ^^^ year, it liquidated, it would oost $.3,510 790 to accotnplish that end. There is money enough in the Treasury to do thaS and have the surplus which I have alreadv indicate But sir tte4 " that .mlhons „, do ar, hr>rCr'' f '»'""™' ^^ich w. have to pre«„^ ther aid from the I> Svindl Kvob*'' * '■!.""'''';i *'" ""' "■"""« »">■ '"> whi.h we have unde-taken and cTrrtl ", ' """■ *",'" «""' P"""'' """"s the hon. Renllemen u\t ", nl ^ ** *" " ■^"'^'''■^s'"' i-'sue. Let me Rive other pla,?s Xre MTv ha e*,^,;,'' '"" ';/""" ""^ "" '"""'"■^ ^'"^ of Tornnt,,. and that for i ^n s Irf T ^'" '" "'"''• '^"''^ ">^ '-i^y hon, R,.ntlen,en op,," it^„ ."d an,"^ ^ " ""■" "^"'""'^ '^' '"«'""^ "' 'he disparagement when I <7o," thei f,."l "^I^" "7'^"" "* "" *" ">eir im Toronto's liabiliS w e S^ "SVi^ '"]^' .^^^ .easnnahle wei., ,„ crown to S.'3,«S3,7!(,, while ^n thi^ ™\ n ^'^■* liabilities ha;d to undertake, „„r ia i'litrel amonnt^ Rreat Province, with all that we have year. (Min.stenal a, la ,se ) It ^. " " ' ''f ■'•""" "' '"e end of last should rav a «'"»hle thing that posterity whiOi thev will get IhrZLLe w>'" /■' """*'' "''''''^"^ »' railway s.ihsidirs ,n 'L, ', i h»e Ir T' "f "''"""■' "' """"- "' their share. It is t her f'o^^ I, ■''Iready .aid, and posterity should pay decrees during the years .^ome ""^^"""'""^ 'h"* '^^ -should be paid'by Nc Pine Timber. Regulations. amendment moved''h'v\l,e' hon'' L.P„tri'"' 7 '^" *'"" reference to the >^ret tlKit he i.s no, n'lila'e, I",'"'"!,. '"■■''* "'™'"' ' exeoedingly would have liked to asi ,.., hal e ' h.r [•" "' '""" inestions I reference to his sneth i ht'-e ■. •• "st a word or two with which seemed to gi' e th^ fullest n. ""% "'^7':'^.'" ''" ^'"^ * ^''"f"". listening to it as I w-a una v,^ Ibv k™, "'^ f" *"' '"-"^^^ »' The account is somewha n^ gre h „ ,te?e JrT ""■ ."""'^ »"''* "'»ht. spee«t- patent. Witl, respect to Uie timter nX^^^^y, ^^^'^ "'^* ^"^'- the issue of right to cut and dispo* . f an TiS^s 'J «.^.-^" '""'^"" "^*" ^^' ""e charge whatever as soon as he hasresid^ii h™, '"'. ^'"' f^** "' ^n^ a house erected, and two acres clearS ™ '' ''"' ' """"'hs, h« ■ In the Uainy- River Distract a Httle dilterent course Is pursued There m the patent. I believe the rea-son f„r this distinction in resnpit f irZ jrant ^ttlers in the Rainy River District ^JlZZreZ'uLmZ to be, as a matter <.( [a,-t Uiere is, very little ,ine timber in the h^ grant town, hips and it was c^luded that tl* *ulers ^ uM „„t hlv^ auTha't'wartheJe""'"'^'' '"' '''" "'* '"' "-'"-^ '-<-■-' "^'v^t MP. Miseampbell's Piuien motion. «,..L"."" ?'"■ ™l'''""' '"►"' "«' ReRulalions it is easy to see that the r-iis^^r':.^:; ^v-,^;-nM.Mrs a„^„d,:^„i, "■ s^'^ !:;rtt nXic inai tnis is .1 tt,i.,t of contidemc iixiiion. It is brouKht at a time anrt ^n Koit"Lt:XUv ''Tr '■^" ** '"■^'" "'"' "" amendment ri^M " mZv ti, r^' ^atme^s '1 Rrnoral condemnation of the entire ™tn,'.i^ tl» f'<;vernment,-n,eans m fa.onorabley„1i;man"'ml* wnit^adt in iLnl ';.'''. '■''*■ "'^ '■*'■'' »'^ "'''•'ai" the resolution. 1 rhpt ^^, 1 , f ^'O""- "t"! 'fy to e.xamine it as we go alone It ttads Oi^n \Vlf: T' ^^'-frV,™''' '"^"^ '■^t'*''*" «"' Confmissioner and^e nnT., h n ,:! '"''"" '^^*"' P"'*' an^ ""y "th■ "^ ''"™--^- P'»- "^y-nd ?h: .Vow, this amendment does elteit tlie present aereement but I r,T,H n„ iT^JnZll",:'''"^'' "' "■'■ ^'"•«''''' falls"'pr;r CWp'an"" 'th™ ma% son?e1 ,1 n''^"*"'"", ''"""'" "■''■^'^'^ '"<■ """* ""animouslv wis £^::;;;;n!rp,S7-e^--vv;^;';^Lr^;rr^i^™r- 3= Str ;'nr'i.^^^nL'tr:: -^t? ;~p^ ;i^iT ^=;"i^rf? •;- -r:o"L-i^tLr:^ir,J'£S consumers in the States. But, si . under the waer rower re/S Hof ,r am"""" ';y ""' "^<^'''"="'' ■» 'l>e crown I.ai,,is Departme the " "■ wm m r.?e rTf' '=''";* '■""'■^ "^^ "^^ ^l^™ and is beins .^. com„l^,i '"'"'♦f'"*, ^"^ '>■• 'n t.he Icasinc of the waterpoweis which thed*re'„f r'' ' '"'.f ■ *""' P"ti'™laf ix'int in this amemlment. All I fha I It tA^";^ /," f" «'S""^«™^ '•"' "e very instruttive reading bu I shall not take up the time of the House by reading them all. Clause Crown iZT"- '"^" ''^'"""ws, "On aPTiroval by the Commissioner 7t telsTCf tl?e s Z f" .''PP'^ati™ «"■■ a water privile.,e, he may order a lease of the same to isr.ue therefor, su( h lease to le for a term of t»n years with .he ri,.M to renewal for a further period ^ another 7™ vea^ ^L ^'ifinl* '^Ti " *"' ""-""a^ts and conditions have be^ Zllr^ te ^i^fded'^Tv Uw '*h"' »"^<^<""'"ions, and at such rental as may tJ,« we to . We have one or two cases on the boundary line. For histance, w» ue in i»got4ation» in connection with Iho wat«rpowrt at Fort Frances. That is lulinn and I do not wonder as it ."leenrs to me, iiir, that thin dues mean all the streams any- where in the Province wixre Ihrre are wate>-powers, and that Uie Oovecn- merjt may be called ujion by any municipality in that vitinity ti> Jevelop this power to its lull caparity and at an enornwu.s exjwndiUire of money "niat I as.sume from siioh Information as we are aible to get is what he means. Now seriously, do hon. pcnileinen mean that that is the business they are proposing to embark Ihe Province in ? Premier Ros.'*— They are not perfectly sure. Hon. Mr. Strattoit— Perhaps the hem. member for Ba,st Hamilton who seconded the resolution will say. Mi. Oarsoailei»-The resolution is very intelligible and drawn in lery plain English II (iie Commissioner of Crown Lands desires an inter- preter we will find hiin one. Mr. Davis— .Thanik you, I would like to have one But it Rentlemen cyppos'ite who framed tlie re.solution an4 ajdopt it as part of their policy c«n't e.iplain it, where are we to go for light « Now the resolution state* that these streams should " at the earliest moment, subject to existing agreements, be utilived directly by the Provincial Government, in order that the latter rr»y generate and develop electric or pneumatic power for the purpose of light, heat and power, and furnish the same to municipalities in this Province at cost. It would appear that whenever the Government is called upon they are to develop any power to its full capacity ajiy- where in the Province, at whatever expense may be incurred and furnish that power to the munioipalities. fTlunicipalities Fully Safeguarded. Now, let us see what oiii water-nower rcfvilatinns provide, and which I have no doubt hon. Rentleinen opposite have overlooked, and which the Qovemment has already been artiivg upon. Clause 12, of our water-power reRulations reads as follows : " Wbere a water privilege is applied for by a municipal oorpoiration for the purpose of supplying water, power, light, or heat for the use of ti« inhaMtants thereof,' the Oommis.sioner of Crown Lands may i.'aie a lease of said privilege to such corporation if otherwise estitled to receive and hold the same on such special terms and conditions and at such rental as he m«.y deem proper." Now, here is a provi.vion which has been in operation for several years which gives to the Government power and which they have acted npon in two cases already. And, I may say now, I overlooked mention- ing it when speaking of the Fort Frances negotiation, previous to their oominencement, I think it was, or during the early stage of the negoti*- 32 lions, I had a communication from U* lorporution ol Kort Kramw »Ut,n« that they «,,«« ,«,,, e so many hSr., powrr W r„n X" poratM.n, and a.skm< thut .,u^ h arranwm™.« te made m leas,n, hi7po«w wou d l« Klad In do that and, m th, ne*oiwti.„s that was one .(the pon.ts. and ,t ,s „nd.TMo„d !»■*,„, ,l,e „eK..'.atinK paTtirs ,!, , s , h power as ,.„,:,r«l I,, ,ha. n,„n,Mpal„y .-hall he fu'n,',.^ U, 1, a n^i. , r .'.""""'"'"' ""*■ «> ""'^k It ■- prudent ai«l in the wetiif.n HiiKh I nave Already (,in»ie(l, miles f,on, that t„«„ ih..re is a wal er-;...wei .ailed Ihe Uamd Kan.K Ih.t „«,, ,1,.. ,.,,„„ .palay „r .Ui.ha tImuKht the, «,uW Tse t , t; Ir ru TheT '"J::'"'"'"^ '■"T '" '"•' ""■" '■"^'n" ■''•■'"•., water s.p, rennr I, u• tionl'The'rItI ""1 ""■ """"Y^ "■'"■ '■'"''■'''"■•'^. »« 'h^'t under the i,-tfnla- tuns the riRhts ot nmnieipahties have already b«n ^-a(e-Kuar^ied Thev Se one Tat thei' *'" '""""'"'''' "' " ""rnina. ,ost '^Thev can " Se (^^»Tr^lnfotThVp?^ '■"'v^''^''' '* '^ '''' "■""" •*"" '"»" '"r uie i«nTrnment of the Provmoc to undertake to develope all the water f.ra, IZ.""" *"' "' "" ''""'^^ '" '^^ "''>"■ ""« -'"Ply m.n,ri;l7 r.r„3!' '*"" '^''^ '^' ™ ^y ***' ""•'e^ o" Pffsent course of proreediire Ihe Crown maintains for all time the wat«-powers vested in i^^^HHireN Ki "leiripower oirett at rost and bv 'heir own development ' ^«Xns L'"," """ '^™.''™* ^-a^ement will continue to ioL tor