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The following diagrams illustrate the method: L'exemplaire film6 fut reproduit grAce A la g6n6rosltA de I'^tablissement prdteur suivant : La bibllothique des Archives publiquos du Canada Les cartes ou les planches trop grandes pour dtre reprodultes en un seui clich6 sont fiimdes d partir de Tangle supdrieure gauche, de gauche A droite et de haut en bas.. en prenant le nombre d'images nAcessaire. Le diagramme suivant illustre la mAthode : 1 2 3 1 2 3 4 5 6 I Hott$^e of Commons ©ehatcs SIXTH SESSION -SEVENTH PARLIAMENT SPEECH w SIR ADOLPIIE CARON, M.P. ON THK RIi:]MEDIA.L lill^L OTTAWA, WEDNESDAY, 4'iii MAliCii, KsyG. Sir ADOLPHE CARON. Mr. Speaker, I was somewhat unfortunate last ulght, alter ihc Ieiid«'r of the Opposition tool£ his scat, in not catcliinx your eye. Thf; lion, member for Woxt York (Mr. Wallace) rose in my stead, and spoke in my stead ; but. Sir, 1 can say that that hou. gentleman did not make the spt'ech which 1 wished to make yesterday, and wliieh I shall try to make to- day. Since I have been in public life 1 have endeavoured to consider all questions such as Hie present one. independent ol' any con- sideration of race, of any consideration of nationality, of any consideration of proviuoe. I must say at the outset that 1 deplore that a question such as this should have come be- fore the Parliiiment of Canada. I deplore it l)ecaust', among souie of the people of our country, it has created division and it has created irritation, which arc never favour- able to the political liealth of any country. But. Sir, I believe that at all hazards the couslitutlou must be maintained, and it is from that point of view that 1 desire to con- sider this question. In my own native pro- vince, upon questions like the present one, and occasions now historic, I have had to face fierce tights, but tliere again, without crmsiderlng whether these ques- tions affected me prejudicially as a public man. not considering whether the sentlmeni.g of my people were enlisted in de- fence of the view whl''h I had taken, I treated those questions as matters affecting not one nationality, not one province, but I coi>8lderecl them from the broad standpoint of the general interests of the Dominion. Now, Mr. Speaker, I look upon this question as a purely constitutional one. Although I know that religloua views and ideas are In- volved in It more or leas, I want to consider I it In this Parliament, the national assembly of tlie Dominion, peopled l)y tlie represta- latives :tt so many different races— 1 say tihat on the floor of this Parliameut, this question should be viewed from the constitutional standpoint, and in the light of the geueml In- terests of all our people. In the interest of the country, In the luteresi of tlie party wliich is concerned, it is better that it should be tried as a constitutional question, separat- ed as much as possible from the irritating elements whicl' uufoi'tnuateiy accompany it. Sir. as 1 view the question, ii le.soJvee itself into this : The highest tribunal in vhe Em- ' pire has declared that rights liave betm taken away from a minority ; and that ndnority, ; under the laws which govern this t-ountry, j tlie coustitution under which this .'ountry I began its career has appealed to the liighest j trilmual in 1/h<> British Empire ; and that trl- I liuual, outside our strife, ignoring ai.i ques- I tions of nationality or of province, viewing I it as tliat tribunal does all greajt qm'stions coming from every portion of the vafct Em- pire to be submitted to itf impartial judg- ment the judges of that higli tribunal, the last tribunal to which a British subject can appeal, declared that lights liad been taken away from the minority of Manitoba. Sir, I shall have occasion to refer later to the circumstances under which a clause for the piN)tection of minorities, happens to l>e in the British North America Act ; and under that clause I say it became the Imperative duty of the Government, under the judgment rendered by the Privy Oouncil. to hear the appeal of that minority, coming before them for redress. Now, this appeal having been heard, the Government of Canada prv>ceeded to apply the remedy which the constitution afforded to the minority. Sir, hon. gvotle- mi'D on Ihe other side have spoken ut draHtlc iiieaMureH l)t>lii« tiiki'U by this (iovernnicm in rehiMon to this mnttrr ; hut 1 hope fo be nl>le I.) hIiow before I resume my sent, thiit every tliliiK lliar could lie done by thin (Jnv- erinnent to liidnee tlie M.iiiitobii legislature to tiike Into Its own hands the apijlleatiou of that remedy, was done by this Uovorn- nienl. 1 hope also before I nsuine luy seat Ut be aide to .show by nn analysis of the Orders In ronncil which were iiassetl, that if to-day we have before this rarliament a de- bate "the moat liiii>ortant and the mo«t mo- mentous which has 4'ver been heard within the walls of this House since confederation It Is because the lojjlslalure of Manitoba would not linrken to the voice of those of her clll/ens. wilhin her Jurisdiction, who were asUin^r her to remedy th(> evils from which thev were sufferlnp, and to restore to them therlffhls which the Privy Council of Rnuland had declared should not have been taken away from them. Sir. we proceeded so far th:it hon. «reutle- men oi»))oslte atid an important portion of the ))eople of ('an.'ula rein-oaehed the ('5ov- ernmeiit foi- not usinu Its pi>wer to settle before this day the Manitoba (piestion, which, af- I have nlri>ady stated, wa^ cre- ntlnir so much irrilntion. and Is creating so much Irritiitlon at the j)re.sent time. We were accused of delaying the solution of mat (inesTlon. We avoided everything that conld Interfere with the autonomy of the province, because I believe that the man who would knowingly touch the autonomy of any of the creat provinces composiiitr this confederation, would not feel a pitrl- oric heart within his brea.st : and T would be the I st to do so. and I would tlsht lor delay, a I 1 would pet up with ntiv measure of tiirdlni'**?. no as to be able to avoit a .lurisdiction which is Kiven. under th^> Hritish North America Act. to the Federal (Jovernnient. but which is to be exerc'sed only when every other means have faPed. And I say that, if to-day that power is not exercised, it Is because, after tryinp every means and attemptinicr a solu- t'ln by every possible method, we found it iniposslM*^ to Induce the province of Mani- toba to accede to what I consider and what I believe can i>e easily established, Is the right of the ndnority. But, Sir. we are told by the press In some instances, and by hon. jrentlemen opi)osile on some occasions, that wo should not disturb the peace and harmony of that province tor the sake of a very email minority, a minority much smaller, of course, to-day than It was when the province became a part and parcel of confederation, small because other elements have been introduced into that province. and the majority disturbed. Instead of there being a French majority, as was the case at that period, other elements having been brought in subsequent to the first set- tlers, w; find to-day the argument used, that it iP a very small minority in that country for which t(» bring about the dlH- turbiince and trouble prevailing at the pre- sent moment. lint 1 hold, that the smaller the ndnority, tlic greater is the duty of this I'arllanuMil, (he natural pnjtector of min- orities, the power that stands indep(>ndcnt beiwcen cver.v province and every element coinposing the province, to stand forwanl ■and protect the minority. .Mr Speaker. I venture to expn>ss the opinion, that, unless minorities c;in be con- vinced that the constitution which prevails In Canada will be ai'idicd fairly, and will protect them in their rights, confederatiiui does not meet the necessities which it was intended lo supidy. I venture the oi)lidou. that it is incomplete, and that it may wri'ck th(« InstHutlons under which W(» live. Sir. ^.l)eaklng. as I do, as a French-Canadian, !irou(l of ui.v origin and ))roud of niy uative province. I nny 1 woidd stand up in tlie old proviuc(> of (Juebcc and flglit, if .any at- teinnt were mad»» to inteifcre with the rights of the Protestant minority < f that pi'ovince. 1 wo\dd do so. because th me it is not a question of what ion the uiinoiity bclougs lo. but it vsitli ine a conslllnlioual dut.v thnr we i>\ve to those ndnorities. wldch. when they surrendered at confederation their own autonomy to form part of a larger union, relied on the good faith of that Hritish North Amtnica Act, which was exjiounded to us so elo- quently .vesterday by one of the fathers of confederation, the Secretary of State, the K'ader of the (Joveriimeut in this House. If the minorlt.y in (.Jnebec were interfered with, I, would stand u)» with th(> same en- ergy for thi( defence of their rights as I staJid u]) to-day to protect the minorit.v Mi the province of Manitoba. Viewing this (luestioi, upon Its merits, I dealr" to express the oiiinion, that T agree altogether with the 'oi'.jurity of the province of Quebec, who i.nk we cannot make too many concessions to our friends who are a minority there, not spciklng the langvnige we ,si)eak, not going to the same church as we attend ; but I consider that lu the pro- vince of Quebec the dilToront sections of the people are willing, in faft, it has been i\ rule which obtainetl long before the law included it In the Confederation Act, that we sliould concede to tlie minority the rights we enjoy ourselves. We have done It ; and what is the result ? The result Js, that, to- day, this question which might, and does in other sections of the country, divide men belonging to different nationalities and churches, the Pi testants and Catholics of Quebec view in the same light, and have come to the same conclusion upon it, that protection for the minority In Manitoba is a right which interests the Protestant minority of Quebec to the same extent as It interests the minority in the province of Manitoba. Sir, when confederation was CRr''led out. when the Protestants of the pru^iace of Qiiehcr Ktalod what tlif.v wuiiifnl in tlmt olil pntvltict', II otTlnlii luiiilicr of coimHifH tn hv Hi't aHldc to Ih» rcprtsfiitcd hy t\v riiini'ilty, what \\:i» tli»> iiiiswrr of fin- ma- jority ? Tlio inajoilfy lu'vcr dlnniHSfd for out' iiiomt'iil wlii'ihcr it was MMkln^ too much oil tth- part of tin- I'rotHstaiitH to miikc lliat d(niiiiii(i, l)Ut tilt' only ijUfHtioii din (Missed hy tluiso wiio toolv part \n tlK* fram- Intf of that iiiip(U"tant lucasiiir, wiik tldH : \V«' do Hut wish (o icfiiHc anytldrii; to rhi' ProioMtanr ininority, hut wt> should lllcr ihi'iu to ii'iMost'iii. ili()S(' constinii'iii'ics wil li- mit our appcarlinc lo he forci'd to malit- tlie coiut'sslon by hiw ; tholr rl>?hts will Ix* rt'spccicd, tlioy nri> perfectly siifo in our hands, hut our only ohjectlou 1h, that It may ai)pcar we luade this iil. Sir, It was not mdy in iclatum to ; these eoiuslitii'-iiclcs that thls» r oiieession was ' luiide. l.otiK inwious to coufederaiion, tlio l*rotistaul niinoiiiy in (^Miebec, in si far as cdiic,ili(/n is ciHi'-i lueil, enjoyed all liie rij;lii» .iinl pri\ ilcj^e.-i \.liich llii> ( aiiiolii' ininnriiy, liy law, eiijuyed in Uic province of Ontario. Not only liiat, Inii ontNide oi ;im.\' consiitn- tional eiiaotiuent, and outside of any lejtis- hirive act. when tl\e Trctcstnut minority eaiae to us, and st.-iied that lliey were de- hirous tliat lliere shoulil In: set aside in the coiniuoii Jails of till' country special aparl- ini'iits for the wonun belonyiin.i; to tlicir own reli;;ion. the ((jiieesislon was Ki'ui'ted wiUieiit a nionieut's l\et.itaUon. fSo it was wit it tlie a'-ylums, ;ind so it was wifh many other jirivileues S'Veii the Protestant minority, which we were not by any moans hound t ) grant by legislative enactment, but which w<( were prepartMl to Kive of our own volition, so as In obtain tli.it jiiicelePs l>o<)U wliieii we tn.ioy in the province of (iuel>ee. namely, |(e;ue, hariuon.v , ami ;.-.onil-will aniens all the peoi)I(<. I liave already !-t.ited, Sir. th;it lonj,' bi'fore the constitution decreed that the rrotesiant minority of Qut^hec should have their own sciiools and enjoy tlie same privlleg.'S tliat had l)een conferred liy Law ' on (he ratliolie minority of Ontar'o. our fcllow-i'iotcstajit ft-llow-sui)Jects !n QiU'bec uevr had lor a moment to dread the least iiitrrveiition on the part of the Catholics. And. .Sir. I am glad to sav tliat not only In tlie province of (Jucl)cc, Iniv in otluriiro- vimes, there are mi>i> beloimin;; to the I'm- testaiit Chnreli wlio view the matter from the same sLiudj/oiiit as we do. I believe thai lH>eral and jiciK-rous ex)>iessions (f opinion cannot be too widely circulated when tlu y come from men known to beloufj: to a different church from the one for which they speak, and I shall therefore read to the House a letter .'uldressed by Mr. Car- , ne«1e, an ox-M.lM'. of Ontario, to Sir Mac- kenzie Howell. Mr. Carnegie says : i Dear Sir Mackenzie Bowell : i Wlitlo, as I fancy you are aware, I entertain i very strong views in opposition to separate' Sir A C-1% schools, illsaiiproveil ami atlll disapprove of tho i.lien Ooviirnriifni'.s failure to disallow tlie JphiiU mil. Jove all, un- iloi-He with all my heart, Mmiillth'ti puiitiori ou tho Rc'hoiil quo.*' lion ; yet, after rciidiaK the report loading up t»), and the order Just passed by Iho (lov«';nor Oenpral In Cotauil with r.'f'^ronoe to the Munltoliu mi hoot iiiieKtIon, I think you will he Kl,id to Imnn Uiat I heartily apprDve of your coi.rse In this iimtter. Indeed, I ilo not see how von or your eollcaKUca could have done otln^r- wise. To my mliid. It, is not so fur as you are concerned, a question of separate schools or no 4-i'I)ar:r. c hfhools, liut om of oliodlenca or non- fht « itli 11 I'arlisiniMit smli ns inirs. TIiIh oduii- try is (liviihtl liit'i two pnrti.'s. tiiid will i»f, aiitl I I'or »tiu' l»cll(>v»; tliui tin- Cunii of K( viTiiiiunt \vl.lcli \vr hnvf Ihto is (lio lu'st |)ohsilil<' line. Itiit, let lis mil fiT^ct tlijit if, I'or (lie s.ilvc til' party iii1vmiiI'im:i'. •my poli- li<':il pally slioiilil liivide llif pi'opli- liy jniy illji'Slloil wiiii'll ciUi lie avoided. Ilic resuli woultl he detrinieiiliil in the extri .le to llic I'llliire, to liie yii'imu .nm, mid to t;.e develop- iii(>iu of riiiiad.i. Sir. tlie ide.i wliii-ji pc?r- inealed tlie wliole (if ilie Coiiledernl ion Act. •IS 1 iiiidtTslJiHl it. was iinitectioii to tlw iiiiiiorjiy, and the iiileiilioii of llic slates- men \vii(> took p.irr In tlie liiiildiiiu of ili.it le;;lclalive nioiinment wah to Kivi> to i\ery class ol tlie population (lie fnllPHt poHsllde enjoyment (f i(li;j:ioiis lilx rty. At i-oiifedenitlon tlial n-as evidently wliiit \va.s Intended to 1k' done In Manitolia, nt* wo may see Ity tlie wordw of ttie lale laiiienl- pd preat leador of the Conservative party. Sir .Tolin A. M.iedonald. When aiipJIed To l.y !i niemlier of ilie I'-i^i.^'lattvi ;i.sH'>niiily o*' that pr.iviiK'c to express his oiilnlon as to the liiu.s ivlatiii!.' to idncation In ISSJ). when tlie new odiicntion Inw .'ilndlshinK separate schools \x!is liefoie tlie leuislalive assembly. Sir .John ^^aedo^.lld \v role tlie loilowin;: letter, which oxplaiu.s it.spif : You ask ine tor advice as to the course you shouM take upon the vexed question of separate scliools lu your province. There la, it aeorna to me, but oijo course open to you. By the Manitoba Act, rlio ^.l•,l■■lslon9 of the Urltlsh Nnrth America A(!t, Bocllon OS, reapeutiUK Xawa passed for the pro- tontloa of tuiuo! IlIom iu educacSoiial ir.altor.s. arc made applicable i.j Manitoba, and cannot bo ctiungcd. wluTcby the lirip.'rial Act contiriii- Ing the ei.tnbllshment of the new provlnc.iH, 34 and :i.') Victoria, chapter 8, section 0, It Is pro- vided that It tball not je competent for tlvi I'or- lianiint of Canada to aPnr tlio provisions of the Manitoba Act In so far as H relates to the pro- vince cf Manitoba. Obviously, therefore, the separate school Byslera in .Vlanitoba I', beyond the reach of tlie legl.sli.ture or of the D^'mlnioii Parliiment. Although I fear to rake up too much of the time ot thc> House, still, I think it l.s im- portant, in the discussion of a (juestion like tlie jiroseut, to place before Purliamtiit and before iVie country the vkn.s entertained ; by the Icidiiif; public men of Canada. Tho.se \ who remember or w ho have rend in tlie , political history of this country of the i troublesome times which ♦•xisted in Cuu- • adti previous to confederation, know that ! the peojile of the provlneea were divided on j reliKi; some of the most distinguished statesmen I and political leaders lin this country, who j aftervsards educniiHl public opinion upou tl.eh;- iiuestiolis, Sir UllVcr Mowat iind the Hon. Alexander .Mai-keuKle fouKlil liercely auainst S'^parale sclioo)s for a lime : but lifter the light had been fought, and the beneilts of tlie now sy.»eiug proti>''ted by a clause lu the Coufeih'rntion .Act. Ar tliat time It seemed useles.s to In.sei't such a clause, bwause they liad always enjoyed, undisturbed, the saine rights as the (Uitho- llc minority ♦•ujoycd in the province of On- tario. ?!till, lii'.-y Inslslert on a r'lmnc being inserted, and It was In l^ondon that Sir -Vlexjinder Gait had Inserted in t'le Confed- eration Act the very clause wliich to-day gives the minority In the province of Qut^- lipc the right of ;ippe;il to tlie I"ri\-y Ctmn- cll. I hav<> heard it tpiestl'ined durinrr thhs debate whetlier the rights of the minority in the province of Quebec could be iiiter- fer"d with as the r'ghts of the minority in the province <,f .Manitoba are inlerfertnl with at present, or wlu'ther It was not ultra vires of the Iccrislature of QuelH»c to pass a ItJW that would chansre the status now en- .1oyed by the Protestant minority In that FU'ovlncp. I cannot see that there can be a doubt on that point. 1 cannot see tlint there can lie a doubt that to-morrow the legislature of Quebec could pass a law ap- pointing Catholic Inspectors, for instance, or in.\poslng on the minority a selection of school books which tliey might not Iind a-^ceptnble. I am supposing a c;isc ; tnit I am quite sure that 11 Is a case that can never haj)]ien in the province of Quebec. T$ut what would be the reiiiedv of the? minority ? Their remedy would be. under that clavise of the Confederation Act. to come to the Governor In Council and ask the GoviM'uor iu Council to hear tlieir appeal ; and it would be for the Governor la Council, after hearing that nppenl, to pass whatever remedial order the Cloveraor In Oouncd siiould deem necessary. Now, Sir, however old the history uiay be, it if? of advantage to turn back Its pages and see how far they may throw light upon queHtions of this kind. Som«' hundred y-ars ago, wiien the Quebec Act was under discussion in the Britisli Pai-- 'iauicut, there were then in that old British PaiiljiiiM-rit, from wlildi we dr.'iw our parhi! inciilnry proooclcritK, nicn wIiohc dcHfcii (liiiiiiH Htlll llvt^ In f'niuidn, win* wlwliod to cniMli tlu' lu-w Kiilijt'fts of His Aliiji'hi.v ilic KiiiK- Hut llMMf ^\trc' (it her mm who, cn-t*- luvi 11 propliclK' <•>•' nixtti the fuliiro of tliv llritiHli Kinpir<>, cuiiNiiltM'iiiK lln- (|iM>Ntlon, tioi froin llx' Httiii(l[inliii of inlKliI, but from tin- .■oint of ritflit, rrpllfd to tlioso wlio Wife Irylu;; to ciiisli I lie ii(>\v sulijcrty •>!' His Miijcsty : We iiuiy liiivc llic iiil«lit. I)ii' wi- li.ivc not ;rot the iIkIH; .'itid tlif (^ii«'ii«c Act >\is p.-i.^siMl. It Wiis piisscd Just !i yi'iir hcfoio the war of 1812, nud I do not think It ran 1)( (Ii'HkmI Ity iiiiyltody tliMt If I lind not bren for tho loyally of the Frencb Cnnadiain of I hat porlod. too vrown of Ki));land would not he able to boast to-day of haviiiu' llic Dominion of ('anadii as a portion of it> pit'iiL lOmplro. it was thtouyii ihr h)yalvy of tlio French people— tliowc jmople who liave gbowu their loyalty on every ocoaslou— that Canada was pn'S^^rvod to the Crown of En.: Intnl. And. Sir. it seems to me tlial wlieti, at this tnomeiil. tiieii whose work I appiov • of atid ndndre. are banded to^'ether to Htri ii;;then the uidon .nnd liKliten the l).tnii« whlcli eonnect tii*- dilTereiit comiioncut [>aits of the British Emi)lre. those men who take an interest in Imperial federation, niii^bt. 1 think, look baek to that period of Ids'ory wiiich I liave cited and rea.son. as did li'e me'i of that day ; if we have the nii;iiit, ve have not tlie rlpht, and shall then-fore m.ike tlif concessions to which the niluoiitv are entitled. Yon linve the power, but ynu have not tlie riulit, and that is a point 'Aliicli ] consider should not lie forKotiea Vi I'eti we are tliscnssiii^ this matter. Coming' to another braii')) of the stibjec^, I want to sliow how tlie school (juestion stj' ids. and I must here ai)olo>!;i'/.e to tlie Iloiihe I'oi' havniK to read a document which is ratlier loiiu, and wliich 1 was at c- Klake, and seconded by the lion, leader if vhe Opposition. At that peri school (piestlon loom "in tlie distiin: c and believiuK, as a true jiatrlot, tluit i: ■•iiould be removed fi'oni the political areiui moved the motion to which I li:ive referred. Ht? felt th;it this iiuestion would create trouble, and prevent the country from de- velopiii}? peacea!ily and (piietly .-is it shoi4ld. and he wanted to n^move it from tlie p( li tical arena and leave It to the lia[iartial de- cision of the tribunal of justice. Sir. I>y thiii motion, he proposed to refer to tli ' hiuii tribunals important (luestions of law or fact in matters of education. In order to ascertain whether the power of disallowance C(Mlld be t xerclsed by the executive. And, ' as tills House knows, his |iro[iosal >vas cai' ried nnanlniously. Now. as I \lew It. tbe I policy of the Ooverninent with regard to ' tlie .Manitoba school «]Uestioii, has been iH ! roctly In accord with tlie ideas which led ' to the unanimous acceptance nf Mi-. Hlake°.4 I motliiii by the House of Commons. We ha*e I t'lkeii the matter from cfiurt to court, we have desired by all posslbli" means to avoid ' its (iiMiliii!: before I'.'irlliiment : and In tli.« I last reBort we h.id the decision of the Judi- cial Coniiniltee of the Privy Connetl. And It was only after we obtained t' .it deein'on that \\t' acted, tis I Intend to show by the i !•( cord which I propose to sitbinlt to tlio ' House : Manitoba was created a province by the Act I of Canada, commonly known as the " Manitoba j Act, 1870," (33 Vic. eh. S). This Act was confirmed I by a sUtute of the United Kingdom (31 Ylc, j chap. 28). The Manitoba Act provided that after ! a dato named tho provisions of the British North '. America Act, 18C7, sball, except those parts ' thereof which are tu terms made or by reason- ' able Intendment, may be held to be specially applicable to. or only to affect one or more, hut ; not the whole of the provinces now composing 1 the Dominion, and except so far as the same may be varied by thla Act, to be applicable to the ' province ot Manltolia. In the same way and to i the like extent a« they apply to the several pro- vinces of Canada, and as if the province of Manitoba had been one of tho provinces origi- nally united by this Art. Provisions are made by tho Q.lrd section of the nrltlsh North America Act, 1867, and the 22nd section of the .Manitoba Act, 1870, for an appeal to the Governor General In Council from Acts of the legislative assembly affecting the rights and privileges aforesaid. Section 03 of the Hrltlah North Atnerloa Act, 1867, provides that " In and for each province the legislature may exclusively make la\v.H In relation to education, subject in accordance to the following provisions : — 1. That they shall not affect any rights or privileges with respect to denominational schools. 2. The privileges and rights granted Catholics In Upper Cunaua are granted to Protestants In Ixjwer Canada. 3. An appeal shall He to the Governor General In Council from auy Act or decision of any pro- vitieial authority afTwtinK the rlshl« ^>f imy Protestant or Catholic minority In any province, where a system of separate schools exists at the union, or is thereafter established. 4. The Parliament of Canada may make reme- dial laws where ti"" provincial authorities fall to do SI). In 1871 the Manl^ ,a legislature, at Its first i session, passed " An Act to establish a system of ' education In this province." I Py this Act, a board of education was formed, j composed of one-half Cathol'cs and one-half I l^rotestants ; also one superintendent of Protest- j ent schools and one of Catholic schools, who I were Joint secrctarloa of the board Tho duties j of this board were : — 1. To make regulations for I the general organization of common schools. 2. j To select books to be used In the schools. 3. I With sanction of the Ivleutenant-Governor In j (Council to alter and sub-divide iiny school dls- I trlct establl.<«hed bjr Ant. The general board is dtvldod Into two •eotlous, and among the duties ' of each sflctlon are the following : — Control and T DiaiiaRttniont of illRclpllDfl lu ichuol. To make rulcH for oxaiiilnalloti. griifllnK aii'l llc«n»lnK of teacher* ami for withdrawal of llcunapr on ■iiffl- clent rauBi'. It shall prescrlh'i bookm u have re- ft- re rue to rollglon ttud iimraln. Section 13 of the Act (llvldod nion«y approprlatod by loKlslatur« between CathollcH and ProteBtiints. The Mid ■ffituf.' Ir aitiPtidod from tlmo to tlinn, but th« •ystoin prevailed \intll 18!)0. The only nubHtautlal aniondiiipnt was In IS75. when the board was In- creaiied to "Jl, 11! I'rotcstants and !> CathollcH, ami the moneyH voted wero to bo divided In propor- tion to the iiu'iiber of (.hlldrnu of school aKe In iho riispfoilvti Wrotpstant and rathollc dlmrlcts. The denominational dlstlU'.flon botweon Iho Ca- tholics prid l'ri)te«tanta, and ttio Indopnndent worklnK of the two sections b-caine nioro and more pronouncod under the different statutes afterwards paHsed. Section 21 of the Act of 1S75, c. 27. allows the pstabllshmont of schools of one deDomtmitlon In the school dlstrlcis of another dpQoinlniitlon. The same prln.'lplu Is carried out and somewhat extended by sections 3!i, 40 and 41 of the Act of IHTti, c. I. In 1877, by r 12. a. 10, It was enacted that In " no case a Protestant rate- payer shall be obliged to pay f»ir the Catholic school, and a (^uthollc^ taxpayer for the Protest- ant school. It Is manifest from all this that until the Act of ISltO. the school system created by the leKlslaturo of Manltol)a under the provisions of the constitutional Act, was entirely bused and ■ carried on on denominational principles as divi- ded between Protestant uul Catholic iscliools. lu 1890 Manitoba passed certain Acts, viz. :— chapters 37 and :i8 of 53 Vic, entitled rewpect- ively " .\n Act respecting the Department of Education," and " An Act respecting Public Schools," which affected very Injuriously certain rights and privileges of the Roman Catholic minority In that province In relation to education acqulr.Hl by them under various prior atatutos of Manitoba, as well as rights and privileges pos- sessed by them before the creation of Manitoba as one of the provinces of tianada. The first of t.he.io Acta. c. '.U, aliuUshed the Hoard of liJduca- tlon and the offlce of Superintendent of Education and creates a Department of Education, which is to consist of the executive council or a committee thereof, aud also an advisory board compose1, which stated that : An appeal bad been asserted, and the case is now before the Supreme Court of Canada, where It will in all probability be heard In the course of next month. If the appeal should be successful, these Acta will be annulled by Judicial decision, and the Roman Catholic minority of Manitoba will receive protection and redress. That Is In the terms of the Order in Council itself. Again, there was a petition from the Roman Catholic Church in Manitoba, dated 27tli September, 1892, received by the Gov- erumcnt, oliio iiKkltiK n-M. Thnl pfCiilnn wnt sl|im«l hy I lie Ar< IjMmIioji. of the Uo iriiiii Ciithollr riuin'li of Mniiitnlni, wlildi HtaiOii : Your potltlonur bellevtm thai lh« tlmu Iiim now cotuo for Vo«r Hxcslleiicy to ootmlilor thw pell- iloiin whirh Imvp bof'O i'r«»HUtt'<* tiy iinrt on lio- hal( o( tlx Koniiiii (atholliH of MunUulw for ru- (Ireit, uuUer «iibii(H'i.loi>H li Atul 3 of Mention 22 ul ilm iVIitnit(il>a A< i., an it ha* Ixtoonio necviMry llmt thti fo'U'i'ul pi.wor iUmiIiI l>«> leaort*."! to tor thH proiectlon of ttio ilcclui'ml that to Your Bxoel- liMiiy tlin OovcriKir Oerioral In Council, It •ooir.x rei|iilitlle that tbt) provLnlunx of thu »tiilutu4 In force 111 till' province of Manitoba prior to tho paoKiiKO of the dalil Acts. iihoiil<| be rt'-onucttd In HO far, at leaHi, uh may be uccesaary to Bociiry to Ih).' Roll. an I'uUiMiuM In the aal'l provlri, tin) riKlit to build, iiialiitalii, OQiilp, inaniiKO. Rond'.ict HUil Hui'port tlipf.o MchoolH In th«i manner provUled for by till) aalii statutes. The iHMltlon wiik r»'ft'iT-('iiillti'(1 to (iMiiifil, tiiid lii- iMiiipi'intod In .'in immIit in I'oiiiicll of 'i»ih I>(vc'iiil)('r, lH\y^. wlilcli lix<'(i tho 'JHr Jiuiii- iir.v. ISlia, as llio ibilo fur hoiirln^: the ;i|i- |toiil. «»f coiifrto, ii;i' history of thill upprMl IS >voll kii')\Mi. Aru'niiit lit uyuu this niip-iil WHS liiMfd on llif '_'1^t .I.iiiiiav,\. Isp:;. .Mntii toliii rofiisrd to he roiir<>.i'iilo(l ui Ihiw nvnu- iiH-nt, and. I»y Onlor in Conucll of 'j;tfd Fdi- riiary, IS',).'{, the propanuloii of a i-ast- was advlisod. liy tM-dor in Omincil of r.ind Fi-h- rnary, 1SP.'t. it was lidvisod tlial copios of a draft caso l>f> Ininsniirtcd to .Miiultol».i. By Order in roniicll of Htli .lidy, 18»;{. it is ordoi'cd ilmt till- aiiU'iidiMl coi'.v »f Hio case l>o Kulniiiitfd to Maiiitiibii. I'.y Order in t'oniK'li, ;{1st July. 1S0;|, tlic "-aso wai^ re- ferred to till' Snpreioe ('ourt 'd" Canada. I would like to draw Mie jiiteiition of the House to lids, as 1 « onsidei*. iiupoiiaiii fea- ture, namely, liiat all lliese Orders in Coiui- fil and proeeedinws tlcit wen- helii.!,' talien by the l''<'deial er next. There is no drastie charaoter in tiiose iiroi-efdlnKS. "\Vl.:;tever Information the Ke^'erai (Joveni ment posses.sed. it consldeiM^d itself l)oun frieiidl.v liiteniloii. itt lenMi, of tlio I'edernl \ernineiil Is shown l>y th<' fact, that the ordor In C'ounetl and the petition Itself of the liisliopH and arehlilshops and t'atlioliis of I ho province uf tinehec wore referred to the I.ieutciiain tjovernor of .Manlloba, with the reipiesi that he lay th«) Hiinie before his iHlvisei-M and leKlshitors. .\ further petition. slKiied by the Calhollea throudioiit the pi-ovinie id' <.>ueb»'e, wim prtsenled liiie In Imih, asking for the inter- feieneo of the Keilenil Ciiverniii.nt. An ai'poai was taken to tho I'llvy Council In Kncland. under the title of Oerald Ilro|diy o| al., apiiellants. and tlie .Mtnriiey (ieiierul of Manitoba, asking if the appe.il of {\w Itoj.ian C;illioHc mlieoii.N is micIi an appeal ns is adihlssihle ly sulpsectlon 'A of section m of the llrltish Nnrth America A.'t of isd7, or by subsection 2 of Hoetloii 2'_' of the Manitoba Act of IHTC Are the trrounds set forth in the pelltinns and meinorialH sueh UK may be the sub.iect of a|)';ie,il under th' authority of tiie subseelloiis above re- ferred to, or either of them V Uoes the de- I isloii of the .liidiclal <;oliiliiittee of tlio I'llvy Council, in the < nsos of Uarrett vh. the City of Winnipeji. .'ind Loiran vs. the City of Wiiinljieu. disoosi il of or eonclud.-d. the application for redress based on the cnteiitlon lli.it the rights of the Uasse Sili Jni.\. IS'.).-,, the leader of the House laid down the policy of the Government as beiuj^ that of w.iitin;? until the month of January ne.xt to pass remedi- al legislation. I'liis policy was adopted hy the House on 11th .Tuly, 180.".. by a vote of 82 to lit! ; and. as is well known, this sck- sion of Parliament was called for the pur- pose of consideriiiK remedial 'ejrislatlon. Now, Sir, if I have intlieted tho reading cr? tlilH Umu dociiiiuMit ii|Miii till- IlntiMt', for wliU'li I a|) iitfitln. I have so Ik> ciitiHi' I fi'If tc wiiN HkIiI to Iny iM^fore the IIoiiHtt iiiui III*' cotititrv an «*xui>t Htutoiiii'iit of tlitt Htiitiiti'M rnKUliitli'K' thlN queNiluii, to- gether wlih t)it> tlllTcrt'lit Orrlora In Council aud n lilMtory of tlii' |>ri)ct>«>(lliiKH ntlopKui l>y tho FtHiiT.il liovei'uiiK'iit in thi-lr m*Kt»- tlntloiiM with ilii> K"v«>riiiiu>iit of Manltolm. I linvo tlilH In ordi>r to (UHpol any Ini- pri'HMlon (hat iril^'ht hIIII cxIhI, In tlir mlmls of hull. K''iui>n, thai tlu> (}ovi>rn- meut of <'anailu moaut to adopt dniHtlc meavuroH, which, in (heir naturo, could hare producc«l, ou thu pait. of the Kovcrn- m«nt of Manltoha ii fi'idliiK of dlNHatiafac- tlon, or that It nioai t to Injure In any way the feelhiKH tif the t.iajorlty of that pro- vluce. That would havo been a fatal iuIm- take, air. HpeukLM*. aud I Hiltik Ihu ret-ord will show, wliou It Im oxniuluud, lhn^ the proc(»edlnKH adopttnl by the Federal 'lov- erninent were such thrt any auth in- proftBlon, If It f>xiNta, inust >"> diMpelled. 'I liw titicatlon Una beer, before the loimtrv for a very Ion;; lime. It Im linpoHHlblc, In the face ol III*' lactH. to utatc that (he (fttvcrniiitiit of Canadu have been huHly li< till' iiKMiHure.4 uliicii liicy have adopted i>i ri'laiit.n to thiH very impcftaut «iu*'Htion. li has IxM'ii bi fore the peoph- of t'aiiadii one way or the other since 1800. I whh uuder tht! iiiipi'e!s.slon t!iat It \Mis but fan that event liiiu' slHodd b<; attempted to prcVi'iu the autonomy oi the jrovinec of Mjinltob;i beinx Intf'ffi'ped with by the .-xi'rciHe ol' tlie fed.'iMl authority of a Jurisdiction whbrh i' iiiidi>ulilrill.\ (oiiiiutted to It by the HrlllHli North Anurlca Act. My Ktatenient, I ^ iidoplcd li,\ tln^ I'ederal (loverninent to thai with it In relation to the Koveruinent of Manitoba. I will now take up another branch of the HubJi.'Ct. It being Six o'clock, the Speaker loft th.' Chair. After Hecesa. Sir AI>01.l»HB CARON. Mr. Speaker, be- fore reciesH I stated that I deshed to addresH niynelf to another branch of the aultject. I wlHh to put upon rt^cord the utterances of Home of ilioHe who took the most prominent part in bnildinjr up this confederation, and my object lu dolnjr ho Ig to show that at that period of the history of the country those men were strlviujj to build up from provinces, separated from each other as they were, which constituted tills northern half of the American continent, a confederation. . vast In liH c.\ti-nt, whose adplrniloUH wiudd Im> greater thin could lie the aH|i|ratlonH of the varloUH coloidi's behMiKluK Io Kurfland. and enJoyin»( absolute separab' Koveruiiicnt I wish tt» put upon record the utteranc* wlio liave followed Ibem. and whose examide I ho|ie will bt> followctl liy those who now strive, as thi«y strov*'. to lncr»ai*«> the pr*js- perity and iiowcr of t'linada. One name, and llu> lli'st on the list. Is tlial of ir<»ii. Mr. Ilolton. Although a very much youiiKer man Ihan .Mr. Ilolton. I had tlx' honour an>l prlvllt>i{t> of eoiiiHliiK bliu aiiioiiK ^ friends, and allhoii>:h we sal on differ. sides of , III*' lIoiiH*'. I have on more thin ae eccft- sion, as a youmr man entering rarliinneut, enjoyed the advanta>:e of Ids advice, nnd I say ainonif those who helped to Imlld up I confederation no nam*' Is worthier of belnsf ] n-membered thnii that of Hon Mr. Holtoii. Mr. Holtoii, as will Is- found In the debutes [ nf confederation, said at that time : My objuct In dolnR that was to show what were Iho opIalonH of these men as to th** rUhts of mlnorltlei. iinrl alio upon tho «(1URaUoDal (i>t«i- Hon whlcl, at that period, rm we know, was « nioHt JUturbint; rtenirat. 1 Mr. Ilolton nald : It may not bn appropriate by the House gen- ! erall;:, o«i)pcially by the inenibera from Upper Canada, but the hon. gentlenian (Mr. Gait) knows well the iDiportance of It. Speaking on the tjuestlou of education, he said: ' And that the Bnglliih Proteatantfi of Lower Canadu desire to know what Is to be done In this mutter of cdiieatloQ before iho final vulce of the I people of thU country Is pronounced upon the I (lueHtlon of confoderattons. Hod. John S. .Mncdouald said : I want to know what they are Kohig to do (or i the Cuthi-llo minority of Upper Canada. ; Sir George Cartler, then Mr. Cartler, said : ' A measure which would have for its eftaot to give strong central, or local government, which would at once secure aud gtiard the porsua, the property, ar.d the civil and rellgiouB rights, be longing to the population of oaeh seotlon. Mr. Iljuiltnln. one of the stroniiest cliaiii- plons of the Protestant views of the period. Bald : I heard decided objections to this scheme from certain sections o' the Protestant inluorlty of j Lower Canada. They say It will place them at the mercy of tho French-Canadians. I am com- I pelled to say that there Is no part of the schema ! that I foel more doubt about than tho effect It will havo upon the educational and political Interests of tho Protestants of Lower Canada. I heard It said that It would affect In a fair and just manner the educational lutereHts of thft Protestant minority, but on the other hand I have heard geutlenien qiiulifled say, although there has not been open huBtlllty to the educa- tional Interests there has been a certain amount oC obstruction. Mr. George E. Cartler, replying to Mr. Webb (of Richmond and Wolfe), said : i Aa a Catholic and aa a member of the Cana- dian Ooveniincnt, I now reiterate that whou the measure for the settlotnent of llie local govern- ment comes before the House for discussion, It will be auch as to satisfy the Protestant minority of Lower Canada. Hou. Mr. Belleau said : The hon. uieniber for Wellington (Hon. Mr. ! Sanborn) laid great stress on the danger which mljfht bo Incurred by the ProteMtAnt minority In the local legislature of I^ower Canada. He tears ; that they may not be sufficiently protected by the Catholic majority In respect of their religion, their schools and possibly their property. 1 , heard that remark with pain ; but I can tell hluc, the Protestant minority of Lower Canada > have nothing to fear from the Catholic majority of that province ; their religion Is guaranteed by treaty, antectiou of the uiluority : Uut even granting that the Protestants were wronged by the local legislature of Lower Can- ada, could they not avail themselves of the pro- tection of the federal legislature. And would not the Federal Government exercise atricc surveil- lance over the action of the local legislatures in the.se matters. This would be protected by the vigilance of the Federal (government, which will never permit the minority of our portion of the confederation to bo oppressed by the majority. 'Sow\ Sir, thes-j quotations which I have made sho'v that the idea which jierraeated the miiids of the men who banded together for the j)tirpose of Iniildins up confedera- tion, was tliat the minorities must be pro- tected in so far as their religious interests were concerned, and that, if these hiterests were not sntlloiently protected by the local legislatures, then their remedy would lie to appeal before the Federal Parliament. I take grisir plensure in quoting from the speecli of ?Jir Richard Cartwri^;lit upon con- federjition. 01 cour.'-e. I need not .>lieve that minorltieis must be protected at all haz- ards, tire the proper views to be entertain- ed. 1 quote now from the Hon. (Jeorg(.' Brown, tlie leader of the Reform party, who, in 1805 deserilx'd the situation as It was then. I quote from the confederation de- bates, page 85 : WKY UNION TOOK PLACE. Hero Is a people composed of two distinct races, speaking different languages, with religious and social and municipal and educational insti- tutions totally different. With sectional hostili- ties of such a character as to render government for many years well nigh Impossible, and yet. Sir, here we sit patiently and temperately dis- cussing how these great evils and hostiiltloa can be justly and amicably swept away for ever. We are endeavouring to adjust ha.monlously greater (lifflPuUiea than have plunged other countries Into all the horrors of civil war. floti. (Jeorge Brown goes on tn ex-press liis views as to the rights of niinoriti<'« pro- te<'ted in perpetuity. After qu'iting tlu' pro- posal concerning the rights and privileges which the Prot(^stant or Catholic minority in both C^anadas possessed as to their de- nominational schools nt the time when the unimi would go into operation. Mr. Brown said : I admit that from my point of view this Is a blot upon the scheme before the House. It Is confessedly one of concessions from our side that have to be made, to secure this great measure of reform. But It iP urged that though this arrangement might perhaps be vain as regards Upper Canada, It Is not so as regards Lower Canada, for there were matters of which the British iiopulatlon have long complained, and some amendments to the existing School Act were retjulred to secure thorn equal justice. Well, when this point was raised, gentlemen of all parties in Lower Canada at once expressed themselves prepared to treat It In a frank and conciliatory manner with a view to removing any injustice that might be shown to exist. lu Mr. T. < . WallbridKO— That destroys the i)u\ver o{ tlie local liii tu legislate upon the subject. Iloii. Mr. Brown — I would like to know how much power the hon. Rcntleiiiau has now to Icgla- latc! upon It ? Let hlui Introduco n Bill to-day to annul the cuinpact of 18H3 and repeal all the sectarian school Acta of Upper Canada, and how many votes would hn get for It ? What has rendered prouilnont public men In one sortlon utterly unpofiuhtr In the other In past years ? Has It not been our views on trade and com- merce ? No, Sir ; It vas our views as to the applying of public money to local purposes— the ohartirlnf,' of ecclesiastical Instltiiflons, thfc granting of money for sectarian purposes, the In- terference with our school system, &c. A most happy day will It bo for Ciinnda when this Bill Koos Into effect and all thesn subj-'i'tM of disnorl are swept from the discussion of our legislature. But, Mr. Speaker, I am furthei' In favour of ihW scheme as a remedial measure, because It brings to an end the doubt that has so lon.ec hung over our position, and gives a stability to our future, In the eyes of the world, that ';ould not otherwise have been attained. Tlier(> is ii Kr«'iit do.'il in wliat tln! Hon. Mi'. Brown snicl at Hint liiiio which iiii,srht hn applicfl to the sltnntloii to-day. IIi^ adiuir- ted tlint tht! lonil h'yi.-^laturo.si could not annul tlie privlloKc Mr. Brown and (he as.st'iulily thus doclanHl that a, conoi'ssioji ■ was iiindo and a j;ro;if priiuii)!*' cstalilisluMl i -that till' rights (d" the iiilnnritips could not ] Le intorfori'd witli li.v (lu> Incal Ic^ri.slatnro.s. ] In fact, a niitional uuaraiiti'o was >:ivt'n. Now, Sir. I have (piotcd enough t() .show tho nature of the coiiipa<-t— how It was ap- proaelird .-md how il was uiid< r-;tf relijjious strife, whicli liad nearly niinccl thf the Synod Minutes of the Presbyterian Church of Canada." prepared by tho Rev. Mr. Kemp, of tiif Free C'nirch. of M'Uitrenl, in wlucli I read the following passage, wliich ap- pears iu the introduction, and which I quote to show how remarkably well the Catholics and Protestants got on together In the j>rovinee of Quebec in almost every period of its history :— About the year 1790, the Presbyterians of Mont- real of all denominations, both British and American, urganlzed themselves Into a, church, and In tho followlnij years secured tho servlcea of the Rev. John Young. At this time they met In the Kecollet Roman Catholic (.^hurch, but In the year following they erected the edlflce which Is now known as St. Gabriel Street Church, the old- est I'riitestant Church In the province. In their early minutes we find them, lu ackriowlodgjnent of tho kindness of the Reoollet Fathers, present- ing them with one box of candles and one hogs- iieiid of Spanish wine. 'Ilmt indi'-ates the st:ile of feeling thai ex- isted in 1700. and I iiopc that we shall uni go back on our history find show less toler- ation to-day. Now. Sir, I would like Im p.iss to ano'lier branch ep it out uf tliat arena. ;ind to h.ave it decided by the triluiuals, where, it was considered, all such matters sliould bt; dis- cussed and determined. .\ow. Sir, as I wish to .avoid wearying the Iloiuse by reading the declarations of Min- isters on this subject, made in Parliamt-nt, I ask permission to [uit iu these declara- tions, which are all taken from the oihcial records. If that is periui;5sable, it will save a fJTeat (ieal of the lime of ihe House. Mr. LAUKIEU. Follow the rule. Sir ADoM'lIF CAUON. Then I shall read the declaration of the hon. Fir«t Min- ister (Sir Macki'nzie Bowell) to the Senate. He said : In reply to the hon. leader of the Opposition I ;im prepared to state the decision at which the Government has arrived on the Manitoba school ciue.'/uion. I desire to state that tho Government has hail under consideration the reply of the Ma- nitoba legi.slaturo to the remedial order of the 2l8t Maroli, 189.'), and after careful deliberation has arrived at tti.2 followlnjr conclusion : — Though there may be a difference of opinion as to tho exact meaning ol" the reply in que.stlon, tho Government believes that It may be Inter- preted as holding out some hope of an amicable settlement of iho Manitoba school (4ue8t!on on the basis of possible action by the Manitoba government and legislature, and the Dominion Ciovornment is most unwilling to take any antiou which can he interpreted as forestalling or pre- cluding punh a desirable consummation. The Government h.-is also considered the dlffl- cultles to be met with In preparing and perfecting II luglslatlon on so Important and lntrlcat« a quei- tlon during ttan luxt. boura of the Bession. 'IMie Governiiieiit han, therefore, decided not to auk I'arllaiiioiit lo deal with remedial leglsla- tluii duriuK the present seRslon. A comiuunlRa- tloQ will be HCDt tiniiicdlately tu tho Manitoba govern riioiit on tliu subject with a view to ascer- taining whether that government Is dinpoaed to liiaKo a settloiiient of the question which will be reasonably sattsfautory to the minority of that province, without making it necessary to call lulo roqulsltlou the powers of th«j Dominion Par- llatiient. A session of the present J'arllament will be called together to moot not later than the first Thur;-i(lay of January next. If at that time the Manitoba govornment fails tr) make a satisfactory arrangement to remedy tho grievance of the minority, tho Dominion Government will be pre- pared, ai the next sossioii of Parliament, to bo called a.t abov stated, to Introduce and press to a cmciuglon such legislation as will afford an adequate measure of relief to the said minority based upon the lines of the Judgment of the Privy Council and the remedial order of the 2]Bt of March, iS'Jfi. This Is clear and sufllclontly distinct, Indicating the policy of the Government upon this very important and intricate question. It must be for Parliament and peoplo of the Dominion to say whether they approve of thla policy or not. The (leoliirat.ion of Mr. Foster Is ideutlcnl < In laiiKUiig«> and is to bo found in the '" Han- sard " of Sth .Inly, 1805. Now. on tlio 11 til July. ISU'j, the lion. Miu islcr of Finance (Mr. Fostor) spoko as ful- lous regarding tho n'sij^natiou of the Miu- 1 istry :— I am glad that my hon. friend shows such Bklll in reading political weather predictions. If : I may so denominate thi'Ui. I have but very few remnrks to make in reply to the question i which has been put by my hon. friend on pre- ; vioua occaHloiis, and repeutoil to-day. Some ; differences ar.jse between members of tho Cabl- ; net with reference to tho question of remedial j legislation. The statement which 1 made tho other day to the House gave the position of the , Governmnnt ou that matter. The differences In ' the Cabinet arose chlelly on two lines. Some of i our conea!art.s of Canada. Sir Charles Hibbert Tupper said at Sydney : I am a Protestant and firmly cling tn my faith, but T desire Justice, fair play, and constitutional treatment for all. We must abide by our parlia- mentary compact, and I am ready to sacrifice my political career, if that be th" price for doins that justice to the Catholic minority whlm the fact that the rules of ' tht> House require It, that 1 have had tx) read In oxtenso, these declarations, as I wish ! them to appear In " Hansard." This is the i position of the Gon.servative party ; this Is the position which has been talien and con- sistently followed by the Government and whicli hfis resulted In the present session ] being called for the purpose of carrying out i th(? promlsi' made that this question should be settled. But I wish to ask hon. gentlemen on ' both sides of the House, and I wish to iisk [ the people of the country, whether the atti- tude of hon. gentlenien sitting to your left, , Mr. Spealcer, has been equally eonslstent ! and whether it hae not at different perioaurier's speech In the House of (Joinmons, as given in tlie "Hansard" of 189.-), page 4502 : Something must be done and done at ohee Done at once, you will observe, Mr. Speaker. because this policy of delay, this policy of vacillation Is not only paralyzing, but it Is fast disintegrating national life ; I say because It is arraying creed against creed, race against race, something must 1^ do.ie and done at once. Well, if in 1S9.") it was arraying creed against creed and race against race, is it wise to continue such a sbite of affairs ? The pro- IK>sltion of the Government Is to adopt a measure which, according to my judgment is a fair me;isure and one tliat Is acceptable to the iiiinority. An lion. MEMBER. Not at all. Sir AUOLrill-: CARON. I do not presume tliat my statement .settles the (luestion be- tween us, but 1 venture the statement that this Bill is satisfactory to the minority. In Toronto, on 5111 February, 1895, Mr. Laurier said, as reported by the " Globe :" The qufrstion is a legal one that is before the Government to answer to-duy. In those times it was always "to-day" with the lion, gentleman ; to mori-ow would l>e too late. In 1895 the question lia«l to be settled immediately, as it was arraying race against race and creed against creetl. But now the lion, gentleman thinks that this arraying of race against race and creed against creed should coutiuiie for six months longer : I do not de.sire at .he present tluio to say any- thing to make t'lelr position more dilllcult tlian It is. It is a diffloult question. The hon. gontleman always displays a great deal of Icindness when he finds the Govern- ment in a difficulty : For my part, I must tell you frankly that I see in tht? question but a i-iuostion of fact. I never sav/ any question of law or interpretation of the constitution. I think It was a question of fact and nothing else. l;{ the insr the iug at I t. I tion tlon I This Is not n pol'tjcal (lUosUon at tlio proKcnt tliii'.' « » • To-iluy It iK pur.'Iy !i Judicial (lUfHtlon. \V<>11, \M' touK thai vU<\v of the mm tec, that ii 1.S ii piirt'ly Jiidirial (luc^nioii. niul I'or vimt ri'nsiMi wo followed t:li<' coiirs*' tliat was IMiiiiictl out to \is I'.v till' Hon. I'Mward Blaki' and tlio It'ador of tin- Oiiposltiou In trauH- fcrriiiK tlio (|Uosl)ou to tlio trihuniils which slinuld docid'' It. Mr. Lniifior. spoakiUK at .Mi.rrisliiirj;, stii Oolobor. Is'.l.l. lht> "Globe" roporl apilii It will Iw >-ory which is proiior for an Ordor in Council haHod upon a Judginoni. Tho course tnken by the Oovcrninent was to prepare a drastic OiU'ir In Council calllniac upon tho Muultolm Kuverniuunt to roHioni the aopa- ratc ucliocls, or tailing It, ti.ey would do It by the Duprcnib authority of Parliament. Could a snore InipruUi'Ut course ever bo takeu ? Now. a^raiii, on pa^o '.IS of tho " Uan.sard," tho hon. lo.idor of tho Oppo^iilou says : If thera Ifl such an outraKeous state of things ; prevailing In Manitoba, not a moment Is to be lost In coming to tho rescue of the oppressed I minority. : That Avns In IS!),"]. Tho hon. Keutlonmu 1 said thou thoro was not a monnmi to he loxt ill ooiiiin;; to tho rosouo of iho op- liivss>'d in .Manitolia, if thoy weiv placed In such a position as that. Hut since then ho has clian^'oil ids views coni])lo1(dy. as I have .s no loujrer spoken of. T)h> policy of the j f,,,(,„.,i ,,j. ,,„.^(, quotations. At Morrisl.uix' er.doi- of tho Cpi.tK^ition to-day is simply to .^^^ui th- hon. ^'onilonian 1 luru tho Hill out of tho Tlouse— no inv<'Stl vraiion. uothlnn but sini|ily f,'ivo the IJill the six months' hitist. Mr. Laurier at I'rescott, 9th tlctoher, 18!i.'). '• (Jlohe " report, said : He asked his fellow-countrymen to divest them- srtlvca for tht; uiomcm oJ puny anii rc'iKious diflereuees, and appealed to them If they did not climlv timt the b'.^l'.er way of d^alUiK with this quest lou was by t.uch an invest Iganon upon the reauii of wJilch the Goverum-ni could act. Here aRalu we see the change that has taken place. Then there was a possiblllly of a commission ; to-day there is no possihility ;►<' anythln;; at all. Tho Iioa. Kcutleniau will not even admit the principle of the ISill, hut as tlie loader of liio Oiiposiliou. uiovos liio si.\ nnmth.-i' hoist. Mr Laurier in the House of Commons on the 19th of April. ISOo, said, as rc^iM^'i'tod In " Hansiird," page .'IS : The Order in Council is termed a decision. I do not understand that term exactly. As I read It, and I r.'dd it pretty c:irefuily. It cannot bo called a decision, It la simply an Invitation— Tliat Is not very drastic— simply an invita- tion. —to the government of Manitoba to deal with that question, and to leave them to apply the remedy to the evil which had bren created by ttielr own legislation— an Invitation, I say, though I am sorry to ray, couched In most uu- foi-runale lauKunKc. says. (lUotiUK from the " (^lohe " report : Those facts are clear to you, and to all who believe In a systoni of separate schools. Ajjain. in the *;amo place : The (iucstloa cannot be settled until there has been such an investljjatlon. • • • » It I were In power, ani If I had the responsibility, I would try the sunny way, 1 would approach this man Greenway with the sunny way of pa- triotism. These are very charm inyr expressions, hut I am afr.aid that when the hon. Rentleman cnmo to put the sunny way Into prai.'tice ho would liud that it would not no very far. I think it w one suirKosted by the I leader of tlie O[)positioa may ho mnch'more ' aiiroeithlo. Xow. Sir, I (pioie tho '• Culti- rateur," a paper published hv the hon. mem- I her for L'Islet (Mr. Tarte). An hon. MEMBER. A fine paper, too. j Sir AliOLPHE CARON. I know tlie pro- } prletor is u very fine writer. I will road ; some quotiitioiis from that paper jiivinij the ' writer's views of the hon. gentleman's speech at Chicoutlml : Mr. Laurier reltereted amidst Indescribable enthusiasm his solemn engagement to re-estab- lish the Catholic schools on his arrival In power. That will take more than six months, to which date he wishes to hoist this Hill. If the hon. gentleman is go'ng to keep the minority waiMnp for ever, I am sure he is We had an order passed by ^the Government j „ot treating that minority as I think they ~" '— " " ' ' '"""""^- •" — .^j.g entitled to 1)C treated. Now. here Is what the hon. gentleman said at Sorel. in Attgust, ISOo. accordhig to the " GIoIh? " report : Mr. Laurier in the House of Commons on 15th July. 1805, said : commfi-Tiding tbe province of Manitoba to re store the schools of the minority, commanding It to do so under tho threat that U it failed to obey mis Parliament would force schools upon them. I do not se<>, Mr. Speaker, how the remedial order can be U>okod upon in the light of a threat. The remedial order is leased, upon the judgment of the Privy Oounol, and tlie phraseology used In that order is the phrase- He knew those Conservative papers well. They would be delighted, it would seem. If he said a word about separate schools. From that quotation it would appear that the hon. gentleman uever uttered a word It nm lit :ill alxiiit tlK' Hclmul (iiicelloii. Still. I liiiv* ln'cii (lu.'tiiii; I xtt'Mslvi'ly liii- (llft'crt'iit views wiiicli 111' oxpivssod iit Viirlous tliiifS mid at varjoiis pliu-i's : III Quebec Ihoso pious Coiia'^rviitlve nowspapors wpip ("ntliollfH ; m Ontario thoy were I'rotcHtanta. Ill Qurhec, tht> saintly " MnitTvo," Sir Adolphe Cttfou, Mr. Ouliuot ami the UltramontaneB, wore llHtenliu^ to hliii with dubH in tlielr hands, ready to d;>wn him If ho said a HlnKle word about thu m.'hool (lUPisiKiii. and tn Ontario. .Mr. Clarke Wallari', Sir Mai;kun/.lo Uowoll anntlrdiini to llie " (Mohe " lejinrl : Now. ho had expri'ssed his views on the school queiition on many oi'caslon.i and In many parts of llie Koialnlon. Mp hail .^ald over and ovor again, that it "uh a {)uesi.lon of fact, and that the Kt-'deral noverninent had a right to Inter- fere, but it had novcir yoa Interfered. It had shuffled You ean st'c, Mr. Spoakor, wlien he was «lie:iklii!4 ill Screl. v.'1i.-fe li.' wis not llifeat- eued by tlie elnb of C'liiiiu' Wnllace. he a'^iaiu eomplains of delay. Ho says : It had shuined and dallkd with the question all ulons- Then JIf. Taeaud's paper, the " T.'Electeur," iDU'i-pnMs Ml-. Laufler's .> of C.oiiiiiii.iis In Aiifil. IS.i."), i.,s fol- lows : - Mr. Laurier has pronounced himself boldly for thti re-03tabll8hinent oE separate schoola In Mani- toba. "Boldly." , the word i.s vevy appropriate, eoii.sidefin-j; the motion that has been jire- seuted to the House. There is a nr(>al deal of boldnes.s in kw-king out a Bill wiiieh lo intended to setrle I he separate sehool (lUeH- tion. Kut at Sorel, tlie hon. leader of the Oiijiositlon pi'iinouiiced ]iini»iitliin In other jior- ; thins of the Pomiulon. W.>11. Sir. I think I can speak upon that (luestioii. comiui.: from tile province of (^(iiebcc. I think it is (los- sllile lo shew beyond a donlii from (he history of that province that the sy.stem of educallon nhich has turned out some of the most emiiii'tit ineii m church and slate. must he es. and In fact, gon- erally all lh:U tcnda to thn fidvaiioeincnt of a country and a peoplo in an odnc.ntliMinl point of view. Qiiobec sch.iols aro in the front mnk. I !im satisfied with that evidence. );iven by one who is forel<;n to our province, and I place it .'iKftin^t the statements made by lioa. frenth'nien belon^ine to that province who .attack the I'ducational institutions which wo ])ossoss there. I have one more branch of blie subject to treftt. and I w ill treat it briefly. An hon. MEMBER. Hear. hear. Sir ADOLPHE CAHON. 1 can sympa- thize with the hon. sentlemau ; T am quite certain I have been too long already, but I promise not to do It again. The h>jider of the Opposition the other day In one of his most ehiquent and brilliant strains, made a speech wliich was ccrtaii ly very iuieresting, interesting from the fact that it treated of various questions, and spoke a litth? of the school question. But I want In the mcst friendly way to criticise some of the remarks made by the lion, gentleman on that occa- ,sion. The hon. gentleman commenced his apeeeh by appealing to Canadians In the lo to uMiiii' of til)' ciiiiNtitiiiiiMi iiuil of ilic mi- nority, not to ;;o bcj'ouil tliiH wlili tlw Hill hcfort' tilt' House. The constliutloii niid llio InirrcstH of tii»' minority con- stitute the \cry reasons wliicli have liu- pelleil tiie tioveinmeiit lo hrlii;; iii(>rou;;iit hack to Canada to fofce the Ulll down the throats of Cnu- adlans." Well, Sir, the lion. Kentleniiin is so inxlous to have a Iiii at tlie Secretary of Stale that lie and his friends lilt wildly in place and out ol pia school (jiies- tlon had been deliuitely settled ; and it was because the hoii. u'entleman viewed that question in accordance with the settled policy, as enunciated liy the leader of the (loveinnteiil and hy the lluMi leader of this House, that lie accepted a seat in \hr> Gov ernment whose llxcd policy was to Inlna: ic- uieilial le^rislntion hefor(» Parli;imeut and to st'ike its existence as a Koveruiueut on tlie seltlemeiit of that questUm. Sir CIIAUIiES TUITBII. HeTiien opposite evidently Ihoiiglit tliat it was a sirong jioint, for they applauded very mm h— "four .Vets I'Miiie lie- fore llie Cioverninent ; one, lo abullsh the I'^i'dich language : two. respecting Iht; qua- rantine fif cattle ; lliree, with resi>ect to Joint stock companies ; four, the School .\ct," and, he continued, "of all those lillls the only on;' that was not vetoed by the flovernment was the School Act." Mr. LANC.ELIEK. There were two. Sir ADOLl'IlE C.MIOX. Yes, there were two, the other being that to abolish the French, language. 1 iim-s the hou. gen- tleman not «ee any distinction lietweeu a c;inlc .|iianintin<' I'.iii and a Udl affecting the rights of the minority of Manitoba ? •Mr. Blake Iramed a resolution for the pur- pose of removing from tlie political arena a question tliat he snpiiosed jnid we supposed was going to prove an irrit.'itlng one to liie people of Canada, and tliis resolution was unauimously adopted by this House. Does I ii»i the hon. lender of the Opiiosltlon see a (litrerence between th:;l resolution and a ! cattle quarantine Bill V The reason why the I School Bill was not vciloed was beciuse. I acting upon the resolution proposed by Mr. Bl.'ike and adopted liy tliis House un.inimous- I ly iis regards this question, we appealed to Hie legal tribunals instead of vetoing llie Hill, and 1 tliink we were right iu doing so. Tht- hon. gentleman made another point ab/out evidence not liavlng lieen submit twl. and he referred to affldavits vvhlcli were Mublislied In the blue-books, and which were withdrawn when the argument was made I c fore till' Frivy Council, \\ell, Su, Mr. Fwart did lu^t r«st his c.ase upon these affi- davits. He rested ins case iit>on the facts, as explained in the petitions of Hie miiiorlty. He rested h\< case upon the judgiiienl of tile I'rivy Council, and the reason wliy these athdaNits were |)ut in tlie blue-book aft^r beiu:,' witii»r('8fUl .Maiiltol)u uchoolN aiv rroleHtaiU than Irt to he fouml in the fnel that when U wan pnipoHetl to Keeiilai'l/.e tliese schools, cveiy (•lei';;jnian Itelonulii;; to the rroteHiant ( Imreli protested aKaliiNt n-llKious leaelilii^ hehi;; aliaiuh.uetl hi them. Now, tlie hon. «( iitii".M;iii ;AIr. l.atirleii also made tlie stat"'- laent lliat Sir KiniaM Sinlih iiad lieeii sent, to Ahiiiitoha h.y this (ioverniiuiit. Hir, > «isli til meet that statement simply liy dt'- nlal. Sir J)(tuald Smllii himself lias aln-ad^ denied it. As a menil)er of (lie Cnve-.nmeiii. 1 lan say. as far as my own peis>tnal knuwl- I'd^e n'l'i'M. ii'id as well as tlie linuwled^e I have heeu ah':' to p't fcoiii my eoUea;.'ueh;, none of ns Iviiew lie was Koin^ on jiny par- rietd.'ir mission 1o .Manltoha. I do not even know now tlial hu was on sneh a ndssjoii, al!lion!;h. Horn his elose eonnectlon wltli .Manit (hat he had .just completed a new hmne for his co-workers In that Isluuil, and he wrote to me : If it Is not too inucli troubUf or too miieli expense, would yon sciiil out to me a (Canadian Hag, because on our holi- days and on tin- days when we rejoice, I should like to see (he (lag of Canada float- ing above the home of (he Uedempiorlst I'adiers here. .Vnd, Sir, I have a sister who is !! nun ill Dnrhan. Natal. ;ind when she writes lioiiie she is as .•mxlous to know about how Canada Is getting on as she la anxious to know .-iliout tlie interests oC her own family. (»f such arc the clergy ol (..lu- adii and the religious orders of Canadii, com- posed. Sir, we are proud of our clergy. We are i»rond to follow them. U(>ad the histoi.v of Canada from beginning to end. I'oiut out to me a critical period in of our country during wliicli men of Camilla did not lead loy.il always becaust> they were clergy, loyal lo 1h(> the Crown. In IsiL'. the history t!i" cleigy- the jteople, led hy the country ami loyal to when our jieople were under the sorest temptation to give up their allegiance to Knghiiul. because of tiie pro- mises held out by the Americans, what cour.se did the clergy of Canada take V Kven In that period of 18;{7. when the sentiments of the French race were more moved than at any other period, when some of om- own IX'ople were lighting for constitutional rights, but ignoreil the constitutional way h; whii h those rights should have been vindicated, what course did the clergy of Canada take ? Did not we then see the archbishops and the bishops publlsh'ng mandaments all through the country telling the people that theivdul.v was to remain true to the Crown, and to respect the constituted authority. \Vny sliould we not follow such a lead V Sir, I do not wish to be misunderstood, and I am not Insinuating that the hon. gentle- man, the leader of the Opposition, attacked the clergy ; but carried away in the discussion, the hon. the leader of the Opposition said that he had been attacked by the clergy. My contention. Sir. is that it is not the habit of our clergy to threaten. I know not what the threat to which the hon. gentleman refers was V If lie referred to the letters which have been published in the newspapera, I do not see how that could b(! construed into a threat. I speak here in the presence of men from the province of Ontario, whom I have known when I wag 17 ••nwicfd 111 «;iinp)iiKim „ml.T ili.- 1. Hilfmljlo • •r 111.. Kiviii „|,i |„,„|,.,. ,„• ,|„. roijM.n'uUve jmiiv, Sir J. .nil A. :vI:ir.|oiuiI,l. m,,! „„.|.vr ti,e l.>.ul.-islii|, yi tlint oth.T KIV.M iniiii whoH.. K.HH wo (l..|,|„n.. Sir .lohn TlioinpHon. I know trinf. n>y f 1. 1 t,, Im-IIi-v.- that tlio I-renchCamullan OntLollc ('a nail in II clcr'ry ar. rill" I'roun of Jiinaila. I ran Hpcak for them, hwausc Ii Imv.- lin.l ovei-y ^umnihU' opportnnlfv of I ^ni.lyi,,.,' ,ii..lr ic.st history an.! tli.. liiMurv I of tli.;lr [M-twnt niuvemt'iiiH. and I am nil- «M<« to iln.i an ln»tanp.- in wlilfh It .-Hn 1..' Sir A <]-2 I or Hio nut trill' anil Kn;jrlanil ami ii tli,. French- i"yal to lln« of Hiitfil tha' Hie flrrcv >'{ Canail:! hav«* U'on nlslnyal I ask aKft.Ti, wlicro .111 tin- tlui.it coni.' from ? It was |>a infill to ni»' to near till- lion If. ntli'inan make iii»> roinaik In- i1,.| Now. Mr, Sopaki r, l.-i ni.- ip .lojilzo I'or lMvin« k«i>t tin- H.mM' ho lonnr Mat; be- t.)r.' I sit ilusvi). I muNt mcntl.n a [.live of onilliiaKi' vvlilfli was comninuiofitcl to in. fj-ilny. It »va« salil that the lion, momlte" for \.»ifli Sliru-n*. iMr. M-farthy) waH com- philnii.r .sa.ily of tli,- hon h.adi'r of fht- npp;),!tlon. In sailncsH ami Kn ('. he Kali) : 'llip hnd.'r of ihr Opposlilun Ihih tiikcn evoryllilnu nwny rmm mo; he Iiat4 takrn my motion away, md now he In takwiK froM m.» my po lllon as ilii« leader of tht- stronu Prote.snuit eleineut of Ontario.