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MAHCIIAXD, lOVINCIAL THHASUHKR I'lK Delivered on 9th February, 1899 Mr. Speaker, For the second time during the tenure of office of the pre- sent Administration it beconios my duty to reply to the finan- ciol statement of affairs of the Province whicli has been laid before this House by the Honorable the Treasurer. I had hardly expected when I last had an opportunity, that the Budget would have been presented l)y the Treasurer iii the person of the Premier, as I thought, in common with other Members of this House, that the responsible duties of the Prime Minister would have absorbed his attention to such an extent that he would have found it necessary to have put upon other shoulders the serious work of controlling the finances, and I had also thought, as I expressed myself during the last Budget debate, that possibly he might have found an adviser among his supporters, representing one of the consti- I 3t — 2 — tuencies of the City of Montreal who would have been ready C ^ m£} to sacrifice himself in the interests of the Province and to assume the duties of Provincial Treasurer. T cannot refrain from saying, however, that I think under all the conditions of our government and with the constant demands that are being made upon the Treasury of the Province, that the office of the Treasurer is well filled by the Minister who for the time being may be the leader of the Government. For the second time I have to congratulate also the present Premier and Treasurer upon the excellent literary character of his budgetary statement which is worthy of his reputa- tion as a gentleman so well known in literary circles, but I regret to find that his experience in office has rendered him rather more adroit in the handling of figures so as to make them conceal the true state of the finances than was the case at the time that he delivered his first Budget more than a year ago, and his skill in presenting them has further added to what I may term their deceptiveness. The honorable gentleman has tried with all the skill of language of which he is a master, to make it appear that the present Government, with himself of course as its head and mouthpiece, has been a veritable Moses who, if he has not already succeeded in leading this Province out of a wilderness of financial difficulties, is very near the borders of that wilder- ness, and holds out hopes of a promised land of plenty and sur- pluses in which his followers will be able at no distant date to indulge themselves to their hearts content, and which will make amends for the privations and hardships which they are now undergoing. It is true that a good deal of the wilderness has been created by the honorable gentleman and it is of course his duty as a prophet to make the hardships appear as acute and real as possible in order that when the relief, if it ever does come, will be correspondingly appreciated, and, if it does not come, that his followers wi.ll be then so accustomed, to going without manua that in course of time they will come to like it rather than otherwise. I hope, however, to be able to shew that the honorable gentleman so far from escaping from the wilderness which his imagination has conjured up, is rather getting deeper back into it and that he will find at the end of one or to more years t f that he has oii the whole made a retrogadc movement to that which was being followed for some years prior to his advent as Premier. THE PUETil\l>£D UKFICIT. The piece de rSsistance of the Tlonorahle Treasurer through- out the whole of his tinuncial statement this year as well as last, has been the so-called enormous deficit which his prede- cessors left for the fiscal year which ended on the Ist June, 1897 But for that deficit, he would appear to have little to com- plain of in the administration of the Province under a Conser- vative Government, and but for that deficit he would be unable certainly to draw any conclusions by which he could at all favorably compare his own administration with that of preceding (lovernments since 18112. If then, this deficit was explained or accoujited for in any manner which would com- mend itself to thinking and intelligent people, the fabric of his criticism must necessarily fall to the ground. I quote the honorable gentleman's own words which he used in opening his speech that he delivered yesterday in which he says that " budgetary forecasts can never bo made in a precise and infal- " lible manner. They are subject to accidental circumstances " which cause them in spite of the efforts of a government <-o " undergo unexpected changes in certain services. It mig. - " easily happen that dullness in the lumber trade or a falling " off in the number of licences granted during the year would " cause a perceptible lowering of the receipts from those two " important sources of reverme. It might likewise happen " that an increase in the uncontrolable expenditure might in *' certain proportion add to the amoutit of the estimated " expenditure." In this statement I entirely agree with the Honorable Premier and I only regret that he has not applied these remarks to the deficit for the year ended on the 30th June, 1897, out of which he has endeavored to make so much capital, as they are in every way applicable to it. Had the deficit of that year been due to normal expenditure as compared with normal receipts, or had the result been arrived at by comparing the revenue properly attributable to that year, with the expenditure, we might perhaps have admitted its accuracy. — 4 _. But thin was in no flense tlie caae. In the Hrst place the financiul administration of that year was not entirely in the liaiids of the late Government. The present administration took office in May, 1807, and I assert now, as I did last year, that between the time of their assumption of offi<'e and the close of the fiscal year, they did everything that it was possible for them to do to increase the expenditure and to defer the collection of the revenue, in order that they might create as large a deficit as possible, and that they tliemselves would start their first year of financial administration with a clear sheet and no outstanding current liabilities to provide for. No furfher or better {)r()of of my assertion in this respect is needed than the fact that between the 2t>th May, 1897, and the let July of the same year, they had taken no less an amount than $281,tJ00 by special warrants in order to pay pretended clain)s which in the ordinary course would not have been [)aid until an ai)pr()[»riation had beeii made by the Legislature for that purpose, and they not only raised by tliese means enough to pay these pretended liabilities but they had left on hand out of the i)roceeds of these special warrants, at the end of the fiscal year, over ^23,000. I will touch, later, on the importance and significance of the system of taking special warrants. Perhaps it is unnecessary tor me t(j remind the members of this House that special war- rants are only authorized by law in special and exceptional cases where no ajjpropriatiou has been voted by the represen- tatives of the people and to meet absolutely unforeseen and unprovided contingency. The claims which these special warrants were used to pay came in no sense within the letter or the spirit of the law which authorized their issue, and, if they were legitimate liabi- lities of the Province, they should have been in'cluded in the supplementary estimates which would have been laid before the House during last session, and have afforded an oppor- tunity to the representatives of the electors to have discussed and voted upon them in which case it follows without saying, that they would have appeared as an expenditure, not of the year which closed on the let July, 1897, but of that which closed on the 30th June, 1898. As turttier proor ot my assertion that the collection of revenue was deterred, we may instance the receipts from the Department of Crown Lands. It is impossible from the aecoiints and statements presently before the House to estimate with exaetitnde the precise amount earned and properly attri- butable from this service to the year 189()-97, wliieh was otdy received durinir 1807-98. But by a comparison of ti»e receipts for the three years terminated respectively on the ^Oth .June, 1890, 1897 and 1898, we can arrive at a fairly apjiroximate estimate. The receipts from this Department for the vear ended the 80th June, 1S9(; were iSl, 045,310. For the yeiir ter- minated on the 30th dune, 1898, !? 1,087,042, while tor the year terminated on the 30th June, 1897, they are stated to have been only $879,893. By (jertain returns also whiidi were laid before this House durinresent session, we tind that from the tirst July to the 3 1st December, 1897, that is, (luring the tirst six months following the commencement of the tiscal year, there was received from Lands, Forests and Fisheries, $448,940, while for nearly the same period of time for the previous financial year the receipts were otdy !$l!«4,33'.), and for the first six months of the present fiscal year the receipts have been $515,727, from which should be deducted, in order to arrive at ordinary revenue, the proceeds of sales of timber limits and licenses, amounting to $135,000, leaving a balance of $390,000, as ordinary revenue. It is impossible to come to any other conclusion from these figures than that during the first six months of the year which closed on the 30th June, 1898, an amount of upwards of $200,000 was received from revenue earned prior to the 30th June, 1897, and properly attri' ufable to that year. The revenues of the Province from tli" service of Crown Lands came from well defined sources and it is reasonable to expect and to hope that they will gradually increase as our products come into greater demand, but it is*^ not contended that there was any cause or reason why the revenues should be less in 1897, than in the years which preceded and followed it, except the fact that the collection of them was deferred. Apart from these tactics ot the present administration there were expenditures during the fiscal year which closed on the 30th June, 1897, it would have been impossible for the Gov- ernment of the day to have abstained from making, and which were not only not normal expenditures, but wero'in discharge of liabilities not of their own making, but left to them as a legacy by a preceding liberal Government. In many caseH tlie Government of the day had sought to save the Province the expenditures which thene payments involved, even hy contesting tlie Province'rt liahility therefor before the Courts, hut unsuccessfully. I may be permitted to enumerate a few of these payments wliich svvelle, while his ordinary receipts have only amounted to §4,1 12,547.30, leaving a .leficit of §239,- 230 75. This statement is calculated on the exact basis upon which the Treasurer in his last Budget Speech made out that there was a deficit for th*; preceding year of §981,043 and wliiclj figures on every available opportunity since then we have had occasion to hear so much of, not only in this House, but upon the hustings and even incidentally referred to m the bpeec-h from the Throne with which the present session was opened. The Honorable Treasurer now seeks to reduce that defacit to §187 000 by lopping oft" certain items which I presume he considers, should bc^ considered as extraordinary expenditure. I ask him to follow the same rule with regard to the expenditures which he has charged to our account and as I have repeated before, the deficit which he pretends was left by his predecessors of ordinary expenditure over ordi> nary revenue, would entirely disappear. — 10 THK CliAIM OF KCOOMY. I may be permitted, Sir, at the risk of wearying the House, to examine somewhat into the expenditures which have been made in the different services duriiig the past year and to see bow far the claim of economy has been well founded. I will grant at the outset that the Government have adopted and have apparently so far stuck to a policy of doing nothing though how long it may be in the interest of the country to continue this policy is a matter upon which there may be considerable difference of opinion. But in the administration of different services we find that economy in the sense of decreasing the expenditure even as comi)ared with the years immediately preceding was not always the rule. For inatance, taking the expenditure for legislation, it is claimed that there has been a total decrease in this service of $77,713 as compared with tiie previous year. But under this head in a previous year were two items, one for the costs of the general elections, $71,165, and the other for the revision of electoral lists, $12,225 making a total of $83,390. Perhaps honorable gentlemen opposite would have wished that we would have saved the country tlio fir^t item end so far as we on this side of the House are concerned, we might have shared in saving the countr}^ this expense, but in thut case I would not have had the pleasure now of replying to a Budget of the present Treasurer. On the other hand, we find that the expenses of the Legislative Assembly have increased in 1898 over 1897 by $1,768, while there has been an increase in printing and binding of $5,720. I should give credit, howe- ver, to the Legislative Council for having reduced the expenses of that House by $906, a state of affairs which may pi.ssibly lead to an agitation for the abolition of the Legislative Assem- bly in favor of a single House composed of the Legislative Council. There is also included to the debit of this service for the preceding year the sum of $2,100 ibr trunks for the Members, but this is an item which has been regularly included as an expense attendant to the commencement of every new Legislature for many terms past and I am not yet aware that any of the Members on the Government side of the House have refused to accept of the articles thus provided for and with which we are charged. Under the head of Administra- — u — +?,.n of TuBtice wc tiiul increases in the Buil.Uec,or. Pen.ion, :^^ W..ia^ PensiooB an,l for Salaries anrt Expenses of Keg stry Offlceram ^,r S questration procee.lings in the n.^> «- ''f »'« ti; rourt Houses in Terrebonne, Montmagny, xlull .in. Ko^ln'eo,^ e'et?:' wHhlhi; Department a great.leal *jrextraorainaryexpe,;,mureprece,,^^^ "" ,rrw° rk °sk no o take ere.lit to hin.self for not spen.hng Btructed l)UikUng8 anu wuitv for some years to come. TZ^l^Z ■S^.crioro'? s'^^;^£conrt,"ar,; Ac^c^untB the item' for extraordinary pnbUe works. But in addition to tlie increased expenditure which I liave indicated as having been made in certain services by the present Government, they have gone farther. Between the dates of the hist session of the Legishature and the opening of the present session they have taken the sum of ^93,137.57 in Si)ecial Warrants. As I have already stated, special warrants should only be taken and can oidy by law be takeri in the event of some unforeseen and unexpected exjtenditure at the time that the supplies are voted by the Legislature, at the preceding session The i_)rinciple, it is needless to state which lies at the founda- tion <)f the British system of constitutional government is that 8upi)lies must be voted by the elected representatives of the I)eople to and for the use of the Crown and that unless such supplies are voted the Government of the day have no right to use the public moneys. The provision by which a.govern- ment may under certain exceptional circumstances expend money not voted by the people is designed to apply only to cases which could not have been foreseen or i)rovisK>n made therefor at the time of the grant by the Commons. To pretend tliat because the Government had exhausted an appropriation before the time which the appropriation was desii^ned to cover and which they had led the people to believe was sufficient for the purposes for which it was voted, would entitle the Government to take a special warrant to supple- ment that vote, is in direct violation of the principle by which supplies are granted and admits of no justitication in law or in the constitution. As an authority on this subject, I may be permitted to quote the words of the gentleman who has had the longest exiierience of any member of this House and who is in fact the Dean of this House as well as presently occupying the position of Prime Minister and Treasurer. In 1884, during the administration of the Ross Government and while the present Honorable Premier was occupying the posi- tion of one of the leaders of die loyal opposition, the Honorable gentleman seconded by the Hon.' Mr. Mercier, moved a vote of want of confidence against the then Government in which he stated that " the Ministry has approved of all the adminis- — 13 — trative acts of all the Conaervative governments which have preceded it, notably so in issuing special warrants to discharge ixpenses not authorized by this (nuimber." ihe honorable gentleman undoubtedly took a correct constitutional view ot the questicn at that time and I regret to say that he lias departed from this prh. nple so tar as to cause to be issued between the time that he assumed othce, on he 26th May, 1897, and the 10th October, 1898, a period ot less than eighteen months, no less a sum than $374,^65 by the very means of special warrants which he bimselt condemned and which I think I may safely assert were all tor payments which mii^^ht well have waited the action of the Legislature or have been reasonably provided f.r by a precedent vote and all of which should have been submitted to the consideration of this House before being sanctionned or put at the disposal of the Government. Honourable Mr. Sheiivn :-l)oes the Honourable gen lemau pretend to say that no si.ecial warrants were issued under the conservative administration. Honourable Mr. Atwater :-I do not pretend to say any- thing of tlie sort, but 1 do say that wo condemned the prac- tise, and that we will endeavour to hold the liberal party o the profe sions which they have been making for years while in ""^OnfoTtheir chief subjects of attack on the conservative party was that the latter had issued at different times special warrants for the payment of moneys not sanctioned _ by this House, and this was reiterated from session t.> session, and from time to time over a long period of years. \ et we hnd • that within six weeks of their taking power they issued more special warrants than can be laid to the door of any imrne- diatelv preceding conservative government, and for piirposes for which the isfue of special warrants -was entirely illegal. Moreover we find them issuing special warrants for the pay- ments of moneys which they were warned m advance would require to be voted by this House : a state of affairs which never happened under a conservative administration. I have already .fated that the $281,000 and upwards which the Government appropriated without the vote of tins House to mak.^ pavments! with indecent haste, before the end of the fiscaT year, was not taken for matters of urgency, but simply — 14 — to leave a clean sheet for the present administration and to swell the apparent deficit of that year. The first essential for the issue of a special warrant is that the occasion for the expenditure of the money should have been unforeseen and of absolute urgency. What excuse can the Goverment give for the issue of warrants when the expenditure was not only foreseen, but their attention was called to it in this Assembly. During the last session of the House the attention of the Government was called, not indirectly or obscurely, but by a formal motion made by the Honourable member for Joliette (Mr. Tellier) which is recorded in the Journals of the House, to the i'act that their Apj^ropriation for the current year for the expenses of surveys was altogether inadequate, and the Honourable Member moved that the House should protest in advance against all expenditure which the Government might deem advisable to incur by special warrant, after the present session, by reason of the insufficiency of the Appropriation. ^ Again, during the same session, standing in my place in this House, on the item of §12,000 for the protection of forests, I called attention to the fact that the appropriation for that purpose voted for the year 97-98 had been entirely expended on the 8th December, 1897, and that the Government had made no provision for the expenses of this service for the balance of the fiscal year. And I protested then against any expenditure by special warrant, and against any engagements being entered into by the Government without the regular vote of this House. What do vve find Mr. Speaker? By the statement of special warrants submitted to us by the Government on the 13th day of -January last, it appears that the Government issued special warrants between the sittings of the House to the extent of $93,137, the first being issued on the 12th March, 1898, and the last on the 19th October, 1898, and included in these amounts we find a special warrant in June for $4,000 for the protection of forests, and in October one for $17,743 for Surveys. i protest again, Mr. Speaker, that the Honourable gentle- men cannot point to a similar warning given to a conservative administration, and to a similar cynical ignoring of the princi- ples which govern the expenditure of public moneys. t — 15 — It 18 easy for the Government to claim credit for an econo- mical administration and for low estimiites, when they reserve to themselves th(; right of making their own appropriations without the sanction or vote of this House. They have violated not only the constitution and the law, but all the pledges which they gave and the protests which they made when in opposition. TKUE F.4€T.S Before passing on to the consideration of the Accounts for the present year and of the P^stimates for the coming year, I may note that the Honorable Treasurer takes credit to himself for decreases in the amounts paid for railway subsidies, and for repayments of railway guarantee deposits. These decreases are certainly not due to any act:on on the part of the present Government. They are simply liabihties of the [Vovince which have gradually run oft, and which will still further decrease until finally they will disappear from the Public Accounts. . . i It is not in the power of the present Government to reduce them by so much as one dollar, and if they have attained their comparatively small dimensions, it is because for five years before the advent of the present Government to i)ower, a determined and continuous 'effort had been made by pre- cedincr administrations from 18i>2 to 1897 to extinguish this liability, and it was for this purpose that the Conservative Government adopted the courageous method of irnposing taxes, which, when their purpose was largely effected, they removed as far and as soon as possible. , r, • The Honorable Treasurer will not deny that the I rovince has not in hands the funds to meet these subsidies and to repay these railway guarantee deposits. The moneys borrowed for the first purpose and the moneys received from the railway companies for the second, were diverted prior to 1892 by the Government which received the moneys, to other purposes. , ^ u Adding these payments, which will of course have to be met as they are obligations of the Province, to what the Honorable Tieasurer calls ordinary expenditure, we hnd that the total expenditure for the year just closed was $4,885,1«)2.48^ I I — 10 — and the receipts §4,170,139.03, leaving a total deticit of $709,022.H5, by which the debt of the Province ha.s been augmente*4,177,77.). This would show a small apparent deticit of $3,000, but a very sli<'-ht analysis of his total estimated receipts would sh.nv that he^is extremely liable to l)e disappointed in their realization. For instanee he estimates his revenue from Crown Lands at $1,050,000 a figure which it would be extremely dithcultto realize, and which has never yet been >>''i^'l'ed. Tie estimates the duties on successions at SJ-o,UMU a lax which last year only realized 81 Go,000. o ,x - When the late Government predicted •^''^J^T.^'^^Jl'^'^ ^*''' tax for the year which has just closed of $1^00,000, I well remember that ditlerent members of the then Opposition and who are now members of the Government, claimed that _t he tio-ures were altoirether excessive; and yet we hnd that they a?e even more sa^iguine than we were m this respect. Honourable Mi-.^Maucuanu:-! can inforni j^^' '/'"^'^l^''^^^^ gentleman that up till now we liave collecte.l §100,0i)0 for the current year from this tax. Honourable Mr. Atwater :— I congratulate the lIoiK.urab e Premier on his success, but regret that it must necesaarily have been caused by the deaths of a number ot our people. — 18 — It still liowever leaves him far sliort of the anionnt whicli he will recjuire from thia source of revenue dtiriui; the current year, and I think that if he han any information as to the parties who intend to die in order to help tiie Province in this respect, tluit he ou^rht not to keep this information to himself but should take us into his contidence. It is a certainty at all events that he intends to rely upon this tax as a source of revenue, nnd not to abolish it/ From direct taxes on commercial corporations thev estim- ate a revenue of ^160,000, a sum which was excieeded last year, but principally on account of the collection of arrears properly attributable to former years. As regards the two latter sources of revenue which aggre- gate no les'. a sum in the estimates than 8885,000, it is apparent that their inclusion in the estimates may be taken as a direct and unequivocal answer on the part of'the Government to a question which was i.ut to it a few days ago in this House, and that it docs not i?itend to remove these taxes. On the other hand it is safe to predict that the estin)ated expenditure will be exceeded in the coming year as in the present and as in })ast years. There is one marked decrease in the estimates for the coming year which compares favorably with the estimates for the past year, and that is the estimate for interest on the Public Debt for the year 1809-1901) which is less by $5,107,000 than the a[)propriation for the same purpose for th'e year 1898- 99 and which difi'erence can be accounted for by the reduction m interest charges effected bv the conversion of the Public Debt. It is the first appreciable sign of the benefits of that measure and one which bears out the predictions which were made at the time that it was undertaken, iuid 1 venture to hope that as it proceeds the result will he i.roportionately felt and appre- ciated. PUBLIC DEKT The Treasurer has asserted that. the debt of the Province has been increased by the late Government and its imme- diate predecessors. I would (all the attention rf this House again to the fact that during the entire period of Conser- — 19 — vativo Administration fn.rn 18'.«:> to IH1>7, thiit thoy .iia not tuke authority t.. !>orn>w, oxca^.t in ISOt) vvhet. tlioy took authority to borrow an atnou.it sutnricMit to .li^^charu'c a lout? outstand'iui,^ liability in rLNprct to tlu' sccon.l 3.. .'ents .lur to railway coinpanies on tlu-ir land subsidies .'onvcrtod into .-aHh at tho^ rate, ot 70 c-o.»ts i^.r acr.. The amount ^^^'^^^^^^ !•;; tiiiri nurposo necessitated tiie issue ot a loan ot >rl,.5t.o,(i()ti t. r which :5 per eeut inscribed stock was issu(>d nettiULr iio cents on the dollar, or at a rate rather better than a loan at par bearin- ^h per cent. In return for tins a habd.ty ot over »-2 oOO 000 dissappeared from our Pul)lic Accounts aiu the lands which were liable for this payment released and are available as a source of revenue an.l of pn.ht t.. the 1 rovmce. Any deficit in the operations of a year must necessarily also become a future liability on the part of the Province, and in exaetin- payment of this liability a creditor necessarily makes no^listinction as to whether tne payment is to be char..-ed to extraordinary expenditure or to ordinary expen- diture, and there is no escape fmm the tact t»'at by the operations ..f the one year which cl.>sed on the 1st duly, 1HJ8, the .lebt of the Province has been au-mented aiul the excess of liabilities over assets is the exact sum of the total MtT COXVKItSIOX T cannot conclude without a reference to the plans which were inaugurated under the late administration to convert the debt of the Province. . As the House is aware, under the authority ot <>0 V ir., chap 2 the late Government made a contract with the P»ank ot Montreal for the conversion of the entire debt, with the excep- tion of the Paris loan of 1894, on a 3 per cent paying basis. The object that the Government of the time had in view was two-fold." In tlie first place to reduce the rates ot interest on the debt, and in the second place to make all the difterent loans of the Province bear a uniform rate of interest of not more than 3 per cent per annum. — 20 T^ji to that time with Hie exticption of tlu^ Paris loan of lifN' none crf'onr bontJs bore a lower rate of interest tluvn four per r/|||, The is^s.u-. '.flM74 1H70-1H78-18H2, (iuehec, 1S82, London, bore five per ccnj. The issue of IHHO l)oit' four unl(b'i' not more than thri-eand a half [ter cent on the value of the bond which was rt'(leemed, calculated upon the lensith of time which the bond had still to run. It was of course an iuevitabli' I'onsi'quence that more in- scribed stock should be issued than the face value of the exist- ing bond, but a careful actuarial calculation established that the saving in interest chai'ges more than comjiensated for this a(blitiom»l del)t. Trovisiotirt were also made by whicli for every bond con- verted a sinking fund shoubl be established sufHcient to extinguish at the expiration of the loan period of the inscribed stock, tlie additional debt. The best ju'oof that the contract was carefully and well made is tlie tact that up to the 1st July, 1898, that ";■. after the matter had been in the hands of the bank for a jieriod of 14 months only $3, :)71, 558,^3;] which iuchnled a large jtortion ot the loiU) of 1890, which bore a rate of interest of 4 per cent and ii. ' practically the same lengtli of time to run as the 3 [)er cen* st- ;" hich was issued in exchange for it. After pr.-'i - ■ g ''?r the sinking fund to extinguish the increased dt'bt .r^oved by th • *onversion, the Treasurer admits an annual h;i\ving >[i this amount of ^4,778.00 which practi- •J I cally exUMulrt for u ikti.mI of 40 ycjirw, and which would r.rrixMto ill that {u-riod :i nett saving to the Provitu-e of $17!>,()00, Tho sinking fund iipju-ars on the rttatemcnt in the | accoiii ihli >uhlic nt of the public dclit as an invL'stinent and aH^('t ot the Pro vitue. ^xncAi tho 1st duly last, acourdiiig to the inforniatiou furnisl.cd by the PrenruT, thoiv has lu^en a further sum of $3,r)71,7!>0 i'onv(.'rted of ditfcivnt loans. It is almost impossihli' without fiilU-r inforinatioii than is prc-c'iitly Indorc the House to state the exact saving in interest which results from the conversion of these additional aniount«, hut as nearly as 1 i-an estimate, the nett saving in interest charges already amounts to about l$:'.0,000 [»er annum or j.oh Hildy^more, and tiie decrease in tbe Treasurer's estimates for the coining year in the way of interest charges on tlu- Public Debt secui to indicate th'at he would anticij-ate tliat the amount would reach sr)0,000 during the coining year. The wliole amount of the debt so far converted amounts to $0,94:5,34'] which is only about a (luarter of the Public Debt suscei)tible of conversion. 1 pretlieted at the time when the proposition for eoiiversioii was laid before the House that the nett saving would be nearly 5!i2UO,000 and tbe results so far, I think, have justitied my expectations. Tbe iIonoral)le Treasurer does not fail to lay stress wher- ever he can on the fact that tbe debt has been augmented by the conversion. I have never denietl it nor did we ever deny it when the act was introduced, but th(> sinking fund employed provides for this, and at the terminaticjn of the loan period for which the inscribed stock is issued tbe increased debt must necessarily be wiped off by the sinking fund, leaving the debt to be discharged, exactly the same as it was before the con- version, while the Province enjoys in the meantime the benefit of the diiteronce in the interest charges - a benefit which is very much needed at the present time— and will likely to continue to be needed for sometime to come. In addition to this, once the matter is accomplished the Pro- vincial securities will feel the benefit of the change, as there will be only one class of .-.ecurity bearing an. uniform rate ot interest. — 22 — The plan of the conversion must necessarily be coneidcred as a whole, and not as applicable to any one particular issue or issues. In conclusion, Mr. Speaker, as a patriotic citizen I think I can voice tlie sentiments of this side of the House when I say that we hopi! that the Government will be successful in estab- lishing that much sought for equilibrium in the ait"airs of this Province but I confess 1 see no immediate or even remote prospect of it. And in order to record formally the views of the o})i)osition in reference to the system of expending moneys of the Province not voted by the Legislature, I offer the fol- lowinj; motion in amendment to the motion of the Honourable Treasurer that this House do now go into Committee of supply. That all the words after " that *' be struck out and replaced by the following : — " This House is ready to vote the Sup- plies to Her Majesty but desires to place on record : 1. The fact which appears on i>age 2S1 of the Journals of this House for last session, that the honorable member for Three liivers, (Mr. Normand) submitted a motion regretting that the Government had, during the short space of time which elapsed l)etween the 25th May to the BOth June, 1897, and even on the eve of the expiration of the fiscal year 1896- 97 ecial warrant, after tbe present session, by reason o^ tbe insutlieiency ot tbe approi)riation. 3 That at the same session the j.resent mover, on the motion for concurrence on the item .51 'i,*)!)!.).*)!) for the i)rotec- tion of the forests, moved : (8ee Journals of this House, page '' This House o])serve8 that the appropriation of $1-2,000. 00 voted for the current vear 18!»7-!>8 was entirely expended on the «th December last, and that the Government has made no provision for the expenses for that service up to the 30th June next." " This House therefore protests ai^amst any expenditure by special warrant ; and aj^^ainst any engagement being taken m the absence of a reijular vote of this House." 4. That by the statement of special warrants submitted to this House bv the Government on the 13th day of January last, (see pages 14, 15, 16 and 17 of the Votes and Proceed- ings of this House) it appears that the Government issued special warrants to the amount of §03,137.57, between the 12th of March, 1898 and the nineteenth October, 1898, both inclusive : and that in this amount are to be found a special warrant bearing date the 7th June, 1898, for $4,000.00 : "tor the protection of the Forests" for the remainder ot the then fiscal year ; and also one on the 8th October, 1898, for surveys to the extent of $17,743.00. That it follows that this Government, within a period ot sixteen months or thereabouts, has issued special warrants to the extent of $374,705.57. That in view of those facts this House desiresto re-assert its most solemn protest against the system of special warratits inaugurated and continued by the present government in spite of the warnings contained in the above motions : and m vio- lation of the promises and the solemn piigagementa made and taken by the members of the present administration when they were in opposition. Mii. CARBRAY OiN THE BUDGET THE MEMBER FOR QUEBEC WESl' REBLIES Tn Mu. SIIEIIYN Mr. Felix Carbray, M. V. V. for Quebec West, in addrese- mg the Legislative Assembly, on Wednesday, on tlie iinancial position of the IVovince, spoke as follows : Mr. Speaker, The Honorable Member, Ex -Treasurer of the Mercier Government, has devoted four hours in making a speech studded with a most formidable and bewildering array ot figures and statements, all evidently for the purpose ot provmg, if such were possible, that during the time the conservatives were in power from 18<>2 to 1807, they increased the debt ot the Province by over S9,000,000, and that their administration of the finances of the Province during tliose yiars resulted m lartje annual deficits. That wlien the present Government came into power in May, 1897, they found the financial posi- tion in a most deplorable condition. ^^ow, Mr. Speaker, parliamentary usage forbids me to use the correct words to (puilifv such unjust assertions. I can only therefore sav thev are most unjust, untruthful, incorrect and misleading, "anyhow, as addressed to the Conservative party. They might ai)ply rather to himself and to his friends. I shall endeavoi^to convince this House of the truth of what 1 assert^ and hope to succeed, aiul in a shorter time than four hours I shall not attempt to follow the Honorable Gentleman m hio endless details— I will go to results— for after all thr^t is the important end to reach. I shall prove : 1 That the conservative government from 1802 to 1807 did not increase the public debt^ §0,000,000, nor by one dollar. 2. That their administration of the finances of the Province during those years did not result in annual deficits, but, on the contrary resulted in yearly surplusses. 3. That when they, the conservatives, left power m May, 1897, the financial position of the Province was in a most satisfactory position. I — 26 — Now, to the proofs, and I challenge any member of the government, or its supporters, to disprove them. 1. The Conservative Government did not increase the Public Debt by ')ver ^9,000,000 during their administration from 1892 to 1897. AVhen they took charge in the fall of 1891, the funded debt of tlie Province, as shown by the rublic Accounts, stood at !!i;io,181,320. There were also at the same time floating debts and obligations amounting to $10,802,853, the result of the disastrous and reckless maladministration of the Honorable Gentleman and his friends, from 188(i to 1891. In case my last figures may be questioned, I invite Honorable Members to refer\vith me to the Statutes ot this Province, 54 Vict., chap. 2, and at page 27 tlierein you will read : " An Act respecting the issue of Provincial Debentures to " provide for the payment of the non-consolidated debt, etc., "etc." The details are then given, showing a total of^lO,- 862,353, the exact iigures I have given above. This Act ai ' this Statement are the work of the Honorable Gentleman, who has just sat down. Add those two amounts together and you have : Funded Debt $ 15,181,320 Floating Debt 10,862,353 Making a total of $ 26,043,678 This was the Debt the Honourable Gentleman and his friends left us to take over in the fall of 1891. Now, by the Public Accounts submitted to this House last Session by the present Government, the Total Debt of the Province was 1124,202,054 on the 30th June, 18ij7, and again by the Public Accounts for the past fiscal year, the Total Debt on the 30th June, 1898, was $25,146,845. AVill the Honorable Gentleman show us now how he makes out we augmented the Public Debt from 1892 to 1897 by over 1$9,000,000? Mr. Sjieaker, I will now take ui) the Public Accounts for the year ending 30th June, 1898, which are, or should be the 'matter interesting this House, During the course of my remarks, I shall, I'think, fully prove the other two points of my argument. I have carefully gone into the Public Accountsfor the fiscal year ending 30th June, 1898, with the following results. Ordi- nary revenue, total : $4,176,139.63. In December, 1896, the — 27 — of the 3 Public )ml892 !91, the :jcouiit8, le time ;53, the I of the 1891. )iiorahle ince, 54 tures to jt, etc., of $10,- Aet at ' lan, who and you 3 3 and his , by the 1 by the nee was e Public he 30th ntlemau } Public unts for ould be :)ur8e of o points ;he fiscal ts. Ordi- 896, the Treasurer of that time had estimated this revenue at *4,086,- 199.42; the actual reveiuie was thus $89,940.21 over. This amount is derived from the surplus under the following headings : Interests ? J^;^^ ^ Crown Lands, etc 27.2 U 19 Administration of Justice and Law Stamps (,7/1 9< Direct taxes on Commercial Corporations 77,5!>5 09 Lunatic Asylums, Municipal contributions 16,072 48 Reformatory and industrial schools 11,380 84 Casual revenue '^' ' "'^1 ;^ Sundries -52/ 49 S 155,570 18 To deduct, less than estimates under the following headings : Dominion of Canada S 11,885 94 Licenses 14,956 17 Duties on Successions 36,544 74 Sundries 2,749 12 $ 65,035 97 S 89,940 21 The extraordinary receipts were estimated at $30,000, and only realized $1,516.72,— less by .S28,483.2». Now let us turn to the other side. The ordinary expenses were S4,300.07ri,29, against an estimation of .^4,042, 900. 02, -- an excess of l$257,178;"27. This excess accrues from the fol- lowing headings : Public Debt ^ 66,555 50 Legislation 1 '" \ Z Civil Government ^Ij'? ^? Administration of Justice 42,98 j b5 Public Listruction • ^4,000 00 Agriculture, Colonization and Immigration 18,t)76 97 Public Works, ordinary expenses 12,981 94 Sundries ....:.... 20,729 89 $257,178 27 The Extraordinary Budget, or capital account, shows a total _ 28 — expenditure of $585,084.19, as against $861,527.99, accord- ing to the estimates, being $276,443.80 less. This ditierence is more than explained under the heading of subsidies to rail- ways ; the estimates provided for a probable expenditure of $503,240. Tbere was only actually expended $198,645.14, that is $304,594.86 less. Now let us proceed to compare the Budget of the year ending 30th June, 1898, with that of the year ending 30th June, 1897, and the result will he : Ordinary receipts, 30th June, 1897 $3,874,803 18 Ordinary receipts 30th June, 1898 4,176,139 63 Excess $ 301,336 45 This excess is practically and principally accou ited for by the increase under the following headings : Crown Lands $ 215,021 93 Licenses 28,867 41 Direct taxes on commercial corporations 59,908 33 Manufact. and Trading Licenses 19,452 97 Lunatic Asylums, Municipal contributions, etc. 55,841 04 Reformatories, etc 35,463 12 Sundries 38,982 90 $ 453,537 70 To deduct, being less, under the following headings : Taxes on Transfers of Property. . .$ 72,801 18 Duties on Successions 65,986 46 Sundries 13,413 61 $ 152,201 25 Making a net difference of 8 301,336 45 If we take into consideration the proceeds of the sale of timber limits sold by the Department of Crown Lands in March, 1898, say $30,110, amount received from sale of Public Lands :583,508, and the considerable amounts due the Government in this department for 1897, and which were only collected and credited to the Public Accounts in 1898, the surplus in the ordinary receipts ot 1898 over those of 1897 of $301,336.45 is amply explained. accord- rtereiice 1 to rail- liture of 5,645.14, lie year ng 30th t,803 18 >,139 63 1,836 45 d for by 5,021 93 8,867 41 9,908 38 9,452 97 5,841 04 5,468 12 8,982 90 3,537 70 2,201 25 1,836 45 e sale of jaiids in sale of lilts due ich were in 1898, those ot — 29 — I wish here to draw the attention of the Honae to the erro- neous system which now exists, and 1 must say, has always existcil under all previous Governments of this Province,^ of earrying to the Budget of Ordinary Receipts moneys acciuing froni the sale of (jovornment lands and timber limits. Those amounts should he carried to the account ot Capital, lor after all, they are not ordinary revenue. Let us now compare the extraordinary receipts, which are : For 1898 8 59,875 51 For 1897 48,485 52 Difference 3 11,4^9 99 Let us now proceed to the comparison of the expenditure for 1898 with that of 1897: Ordimiry expenditure, 1897 ?4,677,095 20 Ordinary expenditure, 1898 4,300,078 29 Less for 1898 S 377,016 41 This difference is accounted for as follows : Excess of expenditure under the following headings : Public Debt e 40,302 87 Civil Government 5.;)3< 17 rublic Instruction 11,000 00 Arts and Manufactures 13,000 00 $ 69,840 04 Decrease : Leirislation ^ 77,713 22 Justice 44,286 12 Agriculture 97,218 /8 Public Works and Buildings 38,300 03 Asylums and Charities . . .' 19,241 02 Sundries 1-0,097 78 $ 446,856 95 Difference S 377,016 91 This difference is explained by the items : $77,713.22, Legislation, representing the cost of the general elections in — 30 — 1897, — by the grant to agriculture, being reduced by ^97,- 218,78, — a very quostioiuible economy — and also no doubt by the religious care with which the GoverMment precipitated the payments of all accounts possible and impossible, before the 1st 'luly, 1807, in order to swell the expenditure lor 1897, and thus diminish by so much the expenditure for 1898. The Extraordinary Expenditure and Capital Account was : In 1898 § 685,^84 19 In 1897 1,957,849 14 The Honorable Premier seems to take much credit to him- self, in tliat the Expenditure for Railway subsidies in 1891-98, was loss than that of the previous year by $1,143,572.99. liut, Mr. Speaker, he was no claim to such. Those Railway Subsi- dies, are obligations of the IVovijice for account of Capital, find have to be paid as they become due. Subsidies to the •iniount of 11,957,849, became due in 18!)6-97. They were paid during that year, and had not therefore to be paid in 1897-98. That is all there is of it. The payments in 1897 for subsidies to railways due parti- cularly to the conversion in cash of the subsidies in land, exjilains this difference. PUHI.IC: I>£BT The net amount of the Funded Debt was. On the 30th June, 1897 $-24,202,054 08 On the 30th June, 1898 24,278,163 75 Increase $ 77,109 67 The floating debt, including unpaid warrants, and deducting the balance of cash in haml, was : On the 30th June, 1897 $ 409,042 25 On the 30th June, 1898 867,682 23 Increase. _ $ 458^53993 Thus increasing the public debt in all by $ 535,749 65 31 — land. 1 will DOW review tlio Htatcmonts and tlio ITonorahlo Pre- mier's speech on the Hnd^^et, which were distrihuted. The Honorable Treniier, this year, again renews his attack by means of coinjyarative statements, wherein he endeavors to show the dei)lorable state in whi<'h his (Government tonnd the finances of the Province in May, l>re called to power. Thev undertook a herculean task, but they coursi- geously set to work, going even so far as to imperil the poli- tical existence of the party, by putting on the people addi- tional taxes (though only temporary) m order to meet the exigencies of the situation, and retrieve the disasters caused by these g(Mitlemen. "itwas^the rKpiidation of a bankrupt estate, and, tor this reason, 1 last vear maintained, and emphatically reaftimi now, that they' have no right to-day to make comparative statements to show that, under the present administration, the expenditure was less or the revenue more than during the years of the liquidation of the bankrupt estate, left by the Libenilsin 1891. , p • The present Government, in this House and out ot it, unceasingly asserts that, from 1801 to 1807, we continued the system of annual deficits inaugurated by themselves. But is this so, Mr. Speaker ? It is i.ositive'y incorrect. During the last session, statements were placed before the House to show that there were deficits in the Ordinary Bud- gets, viz :— ^24,828 in 1892-93 ; S23u,202.28 in 1893-04 ; Il < — 32 — $U;2,r,r,l.»10 in 1804-95 ; ?55,(578.0l in isD.Wm. B'lt, Mr. Speaker, why deceive tiie people iind iiijuro the credit ot tins Provinee hy siieh crroneou^^ ussertions ? Let m take the state- ments tlieinselves, which were submitted to U8 by the Govern- ment, and what do we find : — NTA ri:nE.\T »» h ". For the year erdini-- ;30th June, 181)3 : Ordinary Revenue *o'??t^^ri i? Ordinary Expenditure J}>2^8J75 Surph)s * -432,895 73 This is not a deiieit of §24,828, as the Honorable Treasurer wishes us to believe. For the year endinf;: 30th Jtine, 1H94 : Ordinarv Revenue '^i'^-^'Inn ^ Ordiiuiry Kxpenditure 3,8/b,990 83 Surplus 3 381,737 73 And not a detieit ot" 230,202 28 For the year ending 30th June, 1H95 : Ordinarv Revenue ^t''^^?,''!^^ ^q Ordinary Expenditure 4,043,1.1.8 46 Surplus '"^ 178,459 41 And not a deHcit of 102,001 06 For tlio year ending 30th June, 1896 : Ordinarv Revenue ^f'n'':!'^^.? '2^. Ordinary Expenditure 4,041, 221 b*. Surplus $ -'^^^«"8 89 And not a detieit of 55^*^73 61 For the year ending 30th June, 1897, the government claims a deficit of $984,043.01, but, if we go by their own statement, the apparent deficit is oidy $802,292.02. I will take up this item further on. . For the year ending 80th June, 1898, the government admits a deficit of $213,030^34. The correct figures are $188,o47.05. — 33 -^ Tin: ni:\i. ii^axciai. nitiiitiox Thf lI()iini:il)lo I'lviu'uT liiirt spokfii to iissibont tlu- liniiiicial situafK.n. Il<'iv is tlio true situiitioii :h it Jipl'<'iirs in the VwhVw Aciounts tor tlu' yaw ciKliiig 30th .luiu', 1SH8 : ConsolidatiMl (U'bt, nrt l.alance ^-24,270,1 »•:'. l'> Floiitiiiti- (ii-l»t Ijf 1,1()<;,7(H! 4«; riuri unpaid warrants l!ll,<;o!t 3«) !!i;i,8r)8,34r) «2 LcHS balance casli on hand 4!)0,003 50 _ S<»/,08l: ->> Total d.ht 12^14(5,845 !>S Ac-conlinu to the oft-ivpeated asrtortions of the Govonnnont, its partisiins^and its press, it is we who are responsible tor the increase of the public debt to this amount. Tins, Mr. Speaker, is certairdv n(>t eorreet. In 188t)' wlu'ii tliesc irentlonieii came into power, tlie total debt was VlO,527,27:3,^ind every cent of the i m Tease m nee then was occasioned to make up for the deceits, the wasteful- ness of the Mercier Government, and to meet the extrava-iant oblii^ations, inllieted upon the Province by this Government. Once for all, wo reimdiate all responsibility on this head. To save the credit of the Province, we had to pay those debts, but are in no wise resi)onsil)le for them. , , r- •,. I will now take up item .$802,202.02, the ai.parent rty. $ 125,143 00 ('r(.\vii Laiid^ 74,107 00 liitercHt on (Icposits in trust 20,01.') 00 !^ 21P,80r) 00 It is clear, l»y what wo now soc, that wIkmi wo, of thu Ojipo-- sitioii, i>r('(li('to(l that a considorahlo part of tlio rcvonuoH accniiiiij; tVoni 1 he C-rown Lands for the year lHlH)-!>7, would g'o to swell the revcnui's for tiie next year, we were not wron_r()ved my case, as liiid 7, iind the financial alfairs of the Province in a barcsent Government, the Ordi- nary Budget would be in efpiilibrinm, instead of showing a deficit, as "it does, of nearly .•?2()0,()00. The present Treasurer and Premier wishes to know wdiat we did with tlie $2,2(52,452, wliieh lie siiys is the Extra Revenue we collected from new taxes, during five years from 1892 to 1897. I (h) not know if his figures are correct, but supposing they are, if he will turn up to the list of debts he and his friends left us to pay in 1891, he will find among others the following items : Temporary Deposits $ 2tJl,3Gl 00 Railway Compan. Guarantee Deposits. 1,910,085 00 $2,178,046 00 This was cash, trust moneys, placed iu their hands, and which they had squandered. We refunded these moneys — 35 — with tlic extra rcvcMiuc above nieiitioiu'cl, and ot" the (liKpowal of which the Premier ia ho atixiouH to know. KSTIWiTi:^ rOlf 1N1M»-I««« The iroiionihle Prerniur, in his estimates, counts on l$4,204,- 8lt0.42 as the prohalilc ivccipts, and jii(ivil. There is aUo tlic lialanec of the tloatini; dcl)t on tlic :50t]i .Iinu", ISDS. Tliesc two amonnts nnikr a total of i*l,-2S7,:i''l.'24. witlio-it ••(inntini; the prohahle and ahiiost ('crti'in aiiu'inentation of the tloiitini;' (h'ht, hy the aotli dnne, 1S!»!>, and hy the :;i»tii dnnc IHOO. The I'rtmifr does not say a word as to how he is i,n)in,ir to |.rovi(h' for the i>aynient of tliesc iituonnts. It is very inijior- tant that the House iind the country should know something about this. The nuittcr is both urave and urgent. rom tlu' ex|ieiienci' wo have had so far in the past, it u very much to he feared that the honorable gentlcnnin is over h-anguiiu' in his estimate of the receipts for 1S!»<)-|<)00 an(l that he iiiiS been rather short in liis api)r()\triations for expenditure. The future, however, will settle tbi? \V e can on lyi lone, m the interest ot the Province, that his i.revisions will be correctly re a lized. Tin: <;o.\VKKHio\ oi' Tin: i>i:itT I am happy to see this project, inaugurated by the Flynn Government, by the then Treasurer, has been continue(l ]»y the present Government and that the amount of all debentures, converted up to the 1st of Janunry, 1.^1M>, is ^6,l>4:5,343.n8, reiilaced by new inscribed stock, bearing 3 per cent interest, amounting to 88,571,587.70. The Honorable Premier has not neglected to tell us that this causes an increase of >>1,<')28,243.72 in the fuiuUnl debt. Ue forgets, however, to tell us at the same time that this increase gives us an equivaletit reduction oftbeaniiuai interest we have to pay. In the Estimates for 1890-1900, we find a reduction in the interest on tlie public — 3G — debt of ^^51,007.42. This, no doubt, represents the unioimt saved yearly in interest, on 8o much of the debt as is no\y convortC'd. I wish to draw the attention of tliis House to tlie fact that in tliis conversion scheme, any amount of increase on tlio cai)italat the due diite of tlie debentures, is fiillv com[)ensated for by an e(|uivalent in ti)e yearly reduction of interest. It is to be lioped that tlie srheme will be carried to com- pletion and the balance of our debt, bearing- more than 8 per cent, converted into debentures bearing oiilv that rate. f K4II.WAV POLICY The Liberal party constantly reproach us with bein..- the maugurators of what they call the disastrous ] olicy ot sub- sidies to railways. Well, A[r. Speaker, I am proud to call myself an humble member of the grand Conservative ].artv, ag.nnst whu;h this accusation is nnule. Tlie party, which has had the intellio-eiice anrestige and credit of the Province. I was right in saying last session to the present Government that they had fallen into a goodly heritage. They have only to follow in the footsteps of the Government which preceded them, to do what is right and safeguard the interests of the country. We will not be jealous of them. It matters little to us Conservatives by whom the country is governed, so long as it is well governed. The interests of the country before everything I ? A\^liere 1" present [Trunk? right to rand Old I'osperity s will be >n of our in 18'.)1 ; friends, But, Mr. e people