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Un des symboles sulvants apparaftra sur la dernidre image de cheque microfiche, selon le CBs: le symbols —^ signifle "A SUIVRE ", le symbols y signifle "FIN". Maps, plates, charts, etc., may be filmed at different reduction ratios. Those too large to be entirely Included in one exposure are filmed beginning in the upper left hend corner, left to right and top to bottom, as many frames as required. The following diagrams Illustrate the method: Les cartes, planches, tebleaux, etc., peuvent Atre fflimAs A des taux de reduction dlff6rents. Lorsque le document est trop grand pour Atrn reproduit en un seul clichA, II est film* A psrtir de Tangle supArleur gauche, de gauche h droite, et de haut en bas, en prenant le nombre d'images nAcessaire. Les diagrammes sulvants iliustrent la methods. 1 2 3 1 a 3 4 « • / / A ') NORTHWEST ADMINISTRATION. SPEECH BY THE HON. THOS. WHITE, IN THE HOUSE OF COMMONS, OTTAWA, TUESDAY EVENING, 4th MAT. :i Reyiew of the Policy of the Comservatiye Party. THE RESULTS ACHIEVED Proved to have Redounded to the Country's Advantage. COHTRm WITH POLICY OF LIBERAL PARTY Goal Areu* Timber Limiti, Oraiing Leaiei, etc., Ooniidered. The following is a full report of the •peech delivered in the House of Commons on Tuesday evening, May 4th, by Hon. Mr. White on the subject of the adminis- tration of Northwest lands :— Mr. Whitk (Cardwell).— Mr. Speaker, before I venture very briefly to refer to the speech which the hon. gentleman has | luit aelivered I desire to call his attention | to what seems to me to have been a breach of arrangement of which he has been I guilty. I owe him the duty of saying that fast week he was kind enough to intimate tome that he intended to bring up this general question to-night, and it was understood at that time that we 'would en- deavor to get into supply at as early an hour as possible in order that he might u^ke his speech and that the raply might /ome within a reasonable hour at all events, and if possible a vote be had on the same evening. I know the hon. gen* tleman was engaged to-day in connection with a duty in which he takes a great deal of interest in connection with his own church, and this afternoon I received from him the following note ; which I had torn up, never imagining it was necessary to keep anything of that kind, but the pieces of which have been picked up since, after the manner of picking up another famous document that had some influence in pttblic matters in olden times, and put to- gether. Mr. Cook— Spittoon. Mr. Whttb (Cardwell)— I shall deal with the hon. member for Simcoe before I get through with my speech — I promise him that The note is to this eflect : " Tuesday. 4th of May, 1886. "Mt Dear Mr. White,— I shall be unable to leave my committee this afternoon, aa It would be deemed a lack of courtety to its mem- bers, and neRleot of my own duty in the premiaes. I hope this will make no diflbrenoe to you, and that we sbuU be able to proeeed with the matter to-morrow. " YourB truly, •'JOHN OHARLTOH." I got that note this afternoon. A number of hon. members asked me whether this question was coming up to-day- -gentle- men whose names have been mentioned by the hon. gentleman in speeches out of this house, and by another hon. gentle- man in spoeches out of this house — and I told them it was not. After dinner I saw the hon. gentleman again. I spoke to him about the matter. It was then agreed thftt this debate should come up ti»>morrow, and not to-day. I had left the chambtx, and was engaged in otbar duUtt wh«n, li 18S6 • • » •, • • • • •*. • ••• > • • • • • • i.-.:-.. 2 C^4 my astonishment, a page was sent to tell me that Mr. Charlton had commenced his arraignment of the Government Mr. Charlton — I dewxe to make a per- sonal explanation. When I sent the hon. gentleman a note from Knox's church I did not anticipate being here this after- noon, and I considered, as a matter of course, that no opportunity would occur to go on with the question until to-morrow. There is a misunderstanding between the hon. gentleman and myself as to what passed between us after dinner. I under- stood the hon. gentleman to express a pre- ference to go on with the question to-mor- row. The debate on the Home Rule mat- ter was then in fOtOgress, and I did not anticipate myself there would be any op- portunty to go into this subject to-night; but I asked the hon. gentleman what was his preference, but I made, as I under- stood, no statement of my own. I fjliould have preferred going on with the question to-morrow, but certain circumstances ren- der it desirable that I should leave the city. My father is very ill, and I have been detained here against my will and am anxious to leave ; and for that reason, believing it would make no ditference to the Minister of the Interior, not knowing that the matter could go on, when a con- clusion was unexpectedly reached to the debate on Home Rule, I took the floor. Mr. WiHTB (Card well)— All I can say is that I have very great sympathy with the hon. gentleman in the cause which is likely to lead him to leave town. But I am very glad indeed that the matter of the arrangement as to the first part is in writing, because after I had spoken to him, and it was perfectly understood since dinner that this subject would not come up to-day, the hon. gentleman approached the leader of the Opp<«ition and spoke to him, whether on this subject or another I cannot say, but the probability is that the leader of the Opposition told him to go on to-night. That is briefly what really o<3- curred, notwithstanding the arrangement to which I have referred. Mr. Charlton— I propose a solution of the difliculty by the hon. gentleman ad- journing the House, and he can go on to- morrow. Mh. Whith (Cardwell)— I propose to do nothing of the kind. I have no objection to going on, and I would just aa readily have gone on to-night if the hon. gentle- man had frankly said so when he re- tujrned, because I took the trouble to go and speak to him. The only thing that I object to is that, when arrangements are made between hon. gentlemen on both sides they should be broken ; the question of whether or not arrangements at all should be made is within the option of either side. In view of the fact that this is a question affecting the personal char- acter of a number of members of this House, who had a right to some informa- tion as to when it was to be brought up, I think it was hardly fair on the part of the hon. gentleman, after having made the arrangement, that he should have gone on with the matter to-night That is, however, a matter of no great conse- quence as afl'ecting the question itself. The hon. gentleman commenced his speech by referring to what he feared was THB CONDITION in this couiitry. that the public blunted and that wrong-doing was OP PUBLIC SENTIMENT He feared very much conscience was being the public estimate of becoming lessened in consequence of the general corruption which prevailed in our public life. All I Ifave to say to the hou. gentleman ii this, that if that is the case in any way what- ever, it is just such speeches as he de- livered to-night that are producing that result When the public find thr.t the chartres which are hurled against hon. gentlemen on this side have no better foundation than the mere fact that they write a letter to the department asking for something for a friend which that friend had a right, under the law, to get, when the hon. gentleuian lays it down as a sin, as a corrupt act, as something to be denounced, and in relation to which the public conscience should be roused, that such letters as he quoted to-night are of- fences against propriety, I do not wonder that the public conscience becomes indif- ferent to the charges which come from that side of the house, and that there is danger, as undoubtedly there is, of the public conscience becoming blunted in re- gard to even more serious matters. (Hear, hear.) Sir, I recognize as much as any- body can do the importance of the public conscience in relation to the conduct of public men. I recognize as much as any- one can do tlxe importance of every public 'i' « • • • < • .: • •• !'• »n. gentle- m he re- able to go ling that I ments are 1 on both e question mts at all option of t that this jonal char- jrs of this 16 informa- sroueht up, the "part of iving made lould have ight That reat conse- 1 itself. The 3 speech by s INTIMBNT very much was being estimate of lessened _ in corruption ;life. AH I man i j this, Y way what- j8 as he de- ducing that id thr.t the igainst hon. e no better ict that they nent asking which that aw, to get, it down as e thing to be to which the roused, that uight are of- not wonder jcoraes indif- come from that there is re is, of the unted in re- tters. (Hear, uch as any- of the public ) conduct of juch as any- every public man feeling that upon his personal char- acter must depend the confidence in which he will be held by the people out- side ; and I deplore as much as anyone can do that by the system which the hon. gentlemen opposite are pursuing and of which to-night we had a notable example, tiie public character, the characters of public men, are becoming of no account whatever, and that the only test of merit is the side of the house upon which an hon. gentleman may happen to sit (Hear, hear.) There is no more dangerous con- dition of things than that, and when the hon. gentleman reads us, as he has read to-night, the letters of members of Parlia- ment whose only offence is that they have done what I know hon. gentlemen on that side are doing with the most perfect pro- I priety, writing to tne Department of the Interior in relation to the interests of friends who may be affected by the de- partment, when he roads a list of names and charges that the hon. gentlemen who wrote the letters are guilty of corruption and are to be condemned, he simply at- tempts to make an offence out of what every honest man, every man of common sense, knows is no offence, and he lessens to that extent the public sense of the enormity of serious charges, when serious charges may be made against gentlemen on either side. (Cheers-) Sir, it is no trifling matter, looked at in the character of our public life, that these kind of charges should be made, and that the mere incidents of our public position, the 1 fact that we represent constituencies and I tbat we have to write to the departments lin relation to matters in which our consti- ituents or our friends may be interested — ItLat these are to be held to be offences to Ibe punished by the censure of Parliament, jana pronounced to be acts which are I blunting the public conscience and rendor- • iug the public life of the country corrupt. { Now, wiiat are the charges which the hon. * gentleman has made, and what has been I the policy of this Government in relation I to the several subjects to which ho has I referred ? He referred in the first in- stance to THB QUBSTIOK OF TlMBIIR LIMITS, and he declared that the policy of this Government in relation to timber limits kad been a policy of corruption^ a policy of giving away Ih* public domain for the H I 3 benefit of the supporters of the Goyemiii ment, and that it had been a policy sub- versive of the duty of the Government to husband the resources of the country, and get from those resources the largest possi- ble return that can be obtained for them from the people. Now, will you allow me for a moment to state what has been the policy of the two parties respectively in relation to timber limits. In the Session of 1872 the Conservative Government then in power introduced into Parliament and passed into law an act of which the follow- ing is section 50 : "The right of cutting timber on such tlmlser limits sh.iilbepiit up at a bonus per square mile, varying aceurdlng to the situation and value of the limit and sold to tkotii^hest bid- der by competition either by tender or at pub- lic auction." (Hear, hear.) That was the law passed in the year 1872, when the Conservative party began to deal with matters in the Northwest after we had acquired that ter- ritory. The Liberal party came into power in the fall of 1873, aid in their very first session they repealed that section and substituted in the stead of it this : " Provided further, that in cases where ap- plication may be made for limits on which to cut timber in unsurveyed territory, the Gover- nor In council may, ou the recommendation of the Minister of tho ;*nterlnr,nuthorize the same to be irabed for such bonus as may be deemed fair and reasonable, such leases to be sufcdeot neverthe'csi tothi^ foreKolngcoadltlons in this section, except as to that part of aub-Hection 1, which provides for the erection of mills, which provision In respect to limits in unsurveyed territories may, if considered expedient by the Minister of the Interior, be dispensed with." (Hear, hear.) So that at the very first session of Parliament after they came in- to ix)wer they rejiealed the act which they found on the statute book, which re- ({uired the timber limits of the Northwest to be given by public competition, and assumed tiie right to give these timber limits by mere orders -iu-council ; and they went so far in unsurveyed territory — which at that time included practically the whole of the territory — that even the condition that a mill should be built might be dispensed with by the Gorernor- in-council. During the time those hon. gentlemen were in otlice some 605 square miles in all were granted, and not a single rood was let by public competition. Every single acre of that land was given by order-in-council, and given to gentle- men who certainly were not politioal op- pokents of theirs, whatever their politics may have been. Now, sir, since this Government came into power what has been the result? The result has been that one-third of all the territory for which timber licenses have been granted was put up and disposed of at public auc- tion, the policy being that whenever there were two applicants for the same territory it would be put up at public competition, and the highest bidder would get the grant. (Cheers.) Now, sir, let me point out another fact The hon. gentleman says— and he is right — that the duty of the Government is to husband the re- sources of the country, and to obtain for the people the largest amount that can be obtained. Well, sir, during the five years his friends were in office, while they had given timber limits for 605 square miles, all the money they received for dues, ground rents, bonuses — no, there were no bonuses, because they put up nothing at public competition— was $6,160 ; while, during the last five years, this Govern- ment has rei^ived from timber limits in the North W'jst for ground rents, bonuses, dues and royalties, no less a sum than $539,433. (Cheers.) And yet the hon. gentleman tells us that the policy of this party bears an unfavorable contrast, for- sooth, to the policy of hon. gentlemen op- posite ; because, after the law had been alterea, after they had taken advantage of it for five years, and after they had found themselves again in the cold shades of opposition, they moved a resolution that the policy of 1872 was after all the best policy — a resolution practically of censure on themselves for having repealed the act, and in favor of a policy which would have continued to be the policy if they had never occupied seats on the treasury benches. ((Jheers.) The hon. gentleman has talked of this granting of timber limits as A MATTBR OP PARTY ADVANTAGH, used by this Government for corrupt pur- poses, in order that their friends might be advantaged in return for their support Why, sir, after they were beaten at the polls— I have referred to it before, but it IS worth referring to again— when they had no longer a right to deal with the public domain, on the 7th of October, 1878, the very day before they resigned the ■eals that was done o do. Among: other names was that of Mr. R. S. White, who, I am to|jL got a timber limit in the Northwest, and who is said to be editor of the Montreal Gazbtib. I was astonished to bear tLis. I know Mr. B. S. White as well as most people, and the last thing I ever dreamed of hss going into was tim- ber limits or anythiiig else outside of his ordinary business. He sticks to his de»k and attends to his work, and does not bother his head vejy much about matters outside* I dropped h. a a line to the gal- lery to know if he had a timber limit — it was an astonishing revelation to me — and I had tiiis ^tter in return : "Mr.Mageeaskedme in 1882 to apply for tim- ber limtt for him. Ttie application was grant- ed, but not a cent watt paid iherf on, and the whole thing lapsed. I had no interest good, bad, or indifferent in it, and had no intention otherwise than that of promoting hisobjeet. I was Informed by a notice from the department a year or thereabouts after the application that eome money was due on dhe limit and tore up the paper at once. I never had a word of iu- tercoarse with any member of the Government on the subject, and no interest ilrect or remote in the matter.'' Now, that is the result of that letter. Then we have other letters, but surely hon. gentlemen opposite are not going to say that the writing of a letter to a minis- ter is an offence which is to be condemned, an offence which is to justify the passage of a resolution such as that which has been put in your hands. Who does not remember the very famous letter, which, I have no doubt, the gentleman who wrote it was very indignant to think got on to the file, as private letters sometimes do, the famous letter addressed to the late Premier by the leader of the Opposition, in which it was announced that "my friend Moore " wanted a contract for the Goderich harbor, and which recommend- ed " my friend Moore " to the favorable consideration of the Minister. Now in that particular case, there was this differ- ence. No one has pretended to say, the hon. gentleman has not pretended to say, that anyone of these letters which he has recited here produced any result, that is to say, that it secured for the applicant anything which, under the law, he was not entitled to as applying for it ; but in that ease we know what did occur, the giving of the contract to the person in whose interest the hon. leader of the Opposition wrote this ^imely and private letter, at a very much higher price than a good contractor had ottered to do the work for. Mr. McCalldm— $30,000. Mr. Whitb (Card well)— Oh, no; surely not $30,000. . ,. An hon. Member— $29,000. Mr. White (Card well)— I think that was about it — $29,000 lost to the country as the result of a private letter written by the leader of this hon. gentleman, who is hor- rified that anything of this kind should happen, that members should write letters to a department in matters of this kind. So much for this matter. Then the hon. gentle- man referred to THE) SUBJBCi' OF GRAZING LBASBB, and he told as that we had given away an enormous area of land at 1 cent an acre, which, he said, was 6 per cent, on 16 cents an acre, for grazing purposes in the North- west ; and he hinted, although curiously enough he did not name the people in this case, that these must all have been given to friends of the Government. All I know IS, that all the recent applications, or the great majority of the applications that I have seen are from Montana ranchemen, who are going to move their herds over to our side of the line, because they believe that our fide is, on the whole, better suited for ranching than theirs. Some of them are from persons who are driven off the United States ranches in consequence of the recent action of President Cleveland in connection with Indian reserves, and they are coming over and bringing their herds to establish their ranche business on our side. But the hon. gentleman says we have given lands far in advance of the requirements of tlie country. The appkcations which we are receiving from ranchemen, from Amer- icans who have nothing whatever to do with our politics, who do not care anything for our poLitics, are of a character which indicate that we are not going in advance of the wants of the country or of those wha are disposed to establish the business in the Northwest. He tells us that we have to- day cattle only to the extent of one for every thirty-eight acres. That, perhaps, as a general statement, may appear to be an extraordinary fact, but, when you know that the rule is that there shall * be one for every ten acres, that it requires ten acres of ranch country for the grazing of a single animal, I think you will agree with me that, in view of the fact that many of the • 8 leases have been granted within the last J ear or 'two years, and that these people ave three years within which to complete the filling up of their ranches, tolerable progress has been made in connection with them. We have adopted the plan now, in consequence of the numerons applications which are being received, not from Cana- dians but from Americans, who are coming over to our side and bringing their herds, of charging two cents, and the greatest possi- ble pressure is being brought to bear on the department by interests that are intimately connected witn the Northwest, not in any sense political, but connected with the ranche business, representing that we are charging too much, and ought to revert to thel cent an acre. For myselfj I do not think we ought, and I believe it is the in- tention of the Government to adhere to the policy we have adopted of charging two cents. (Hear, hear.) But the hon. gentle- man says we have sold those lands — that is practically the statement — at 16 cents an acre, the 1 cent rental being 6 per cent, on that. What do we give these people ? We give them the right to graze their cattle upon a certain areaof land,but we reserve to the settler the right of going into that coun- try ; and every even-numbered section in that whole ranche country is as open to- day for settlement as if there ware no cattle grazing upon it. These people run the risk, therefore, if they get a good ranche, with a good deal of bottom lands upon it, of having settlers crowding in upon them ; and, after they get their cat- tle there, they may find the settlers crowd- ing in to such an extent that they are seriously inconvenienced in the work they have specially set for themselves. (Hear, hear.) So that we have not locked up the land from settlement, but on the contrary have reserved for the settler, that being the first consideration, the right to go in there and settle. We have received al- ready on account of these ranche lands, an amount which would not have been re- ceived at all, of which we would not have seen a dollar, of $76,531.29. (Cheers.) But that is not all. What is the result in another sense ? , AS THB RESULT OP THIS RANCHB BUSINBBS, as the result of encouraging people to come in here and bring their herds and raise cattle in the country, we are able to supply our Mounted police and our In< ;'•' I dians at a far lower price than we could have done otherwise. In connection with the Northwest Mounted police we have the cost of beef supplied during the last three years, $95,540, and, under the con- tract we are just letting in the Indian de- partment to persons within the country and whose cattle are within the country, we would, at their prices, get the same supply for $54,917.52, or about $41,000 of a saving upon the three years' operations in connection with the beef supply of the Northwest Mounted police. (Cheers.) Then I find that, with regard to the In- dian supply, taking the supply of last year at the price we paid for it, and taking the same quantity at the price for which we are now letting contracts as the result of this ranche business being carried on within the country, the saving to the country would be $80,500, or on these two items alone over $120,000, which may fairly be added in the meantime to the amount we have received for the ranches themselves as showing what the advantp age to the country has been. (Cheers.) Does the hon. gentleman pretend to say that we should not have adopted the ranche principle? Does he pretend to say that we should not have encouraged the herding of catlile in our Northwestern prairies,which are so well adapted for gras* ing purposes,so well adapted that they are attracting at this moment the attention of Americans who are bringing their cat- tie over from the other side ? No. sir, I venture to say that if we had not done this, if we had allowed this land to lie fallow, and made no effort to utilize it to the public advantage, while not inter* fering with the settlement of the country, the first person to attack us would have been the hon. gentlemen opposite, who would have pointed out that we were recreant to our duty in not securing the revenue to the country from this land which a wise policy would have enabled us to realize. (Cheers.) In the United States they don't adopt this plan. There a ranchman and a number of his cowboys take up home- steads near together ; they got four or five or six thousand acres in a block in that way. They make that their headquarters : it is their own land ; they get it under the ordinary bomest ^ad and pre-emption sys- tem that prevails in the United States, and then tneir cattle graze over the whole m we could nection with 36 we have ing the last er the oon- I Indian de- the country ;he country, )t the same ; $41,000 of a >perationB In ipply of the I. (Cheers.) d to the In- ir of last year Ld taking the for which we s the result g carried on iving to the on these two which may an time to the r the ranches tthe advant^ n. (Cheers.) retend to say adopted the ) pretend to ) encouraged Northwestern pted for gra»- that they are the attention ing their cat- ? No. sir, I lad not done this land to t to utilize it le not inter- the country, would have 3n opposite, out that iir duty in ue to the a wise policy to realize. «s they don't chman and a ie up home- )t four or five 3lock in that leadquarters : ; it under the •emption sys- Jnited States, irer the whole country without their paying to the Gov- ernment a sixpence of rental of any kind whatever. It seems to me we have adopt- ed a wiser principle in dealing with ranches. (Cheers.) The br n. gentleman tells us that we are. CrVING COAL AREAS TO PEOPLE, but he did not name the people who had got the coal areas. Ho made the extra- ordinary statement that the result of our policy was to make fuel dearer to the people of the Northwest. Why, the hon. gentleman has never been in the North- west, I believe? The hon. gentleman who seconds his motion has been there, and has made con8idera> le profit out of the Northwest. He was one of tho^ land speculators, one of those men who, at the moment when a system was adopted by which land was given at $1 an acre with a payment of ten cents down, rushed in and took some 60,000 acres of land which he holds now, and which makes him a millionaire, and makes him better able to carry his election the next time on the same principle on which he has carried his elections in the past. But the hon. gentleman who moved this motion, I sup- pose, has never been in the Northwest, and he did not know, therefore, much about the question of fuel. I believe I am right in saying that the result of open- ing up those coal areas under the policy adopted by the Government has been to reduce the price of coal in Winnipeg from $17 to $7 a ton. (Cheers.) Therefore, if it be true that we have given these coal areas, even if it be to friends, we have at least the satisfaction of knowing that we have made fuel cheaper to the settlers of the Northwest, that we had, in fact, re- duced the price considerably more than one-half, because, as you go further west and get nearer the coal areas, you will find that the price now is, I have no hesi- tation in saying, at least one-third what it was before. (Cheers.) Now, wiih regard to these coal areas, we have adopted pre- cisely the same policy as that adopted by the United States ; and I confess I was rather astonished when, in the one par- ticular in which we have slavishly fol- lowed the American system, after the hon. gentleman has been parading the Ameri- can system, has been calling upon us every session to take a leaf out of the book of our friends on the other side of the border, yet, when we have done it in this particular case, still the hon. gentle- man is not pleased, still he thinks we should have adopted some other plan. He says we ought to offer these to public com- petition. Why, sir, how could we oflfer them to public competition ? Coal under- lies the whole Northwest, and you can hardly tell where it may not be found. The policy we adopted is, that where there is a coal area we tix the price, as they do in the United States under similar condi- tions, at $10 an acre, or, if it be anthracite coal, such as is found in the mountains, where the price was formerly $20 an acre, we have reduced it down to $12.50, upon the representation of the Inspector of Mines, that the cost of mining was so great that it was better to reduce it to $12.50 in order to ensure the development of the anthracite mines to be found in the mountains. Now, any one can go in and get a coal area if he knows where to select it. He comes to the department and pays his $10 an acre, and then he can go back and open the seam and supply the people with coal, and so ensure cheap fuel for the people of the Northwest. Then again, with regard to THIS MATTER OF GRAZING LANDS, the hon. gentleman has been dealing con- siderably with the question of members of Parliament being interested in this mat- ter. If I may refer to a previous debate which took place last night — although I know it is not in order — a member of this house was attacked because he had ranches in Texas. But what is he to do ? If he had taken a ranche in Canada and put his cattle upon it in exactly the same way, he would have been attacked just the same, because it would then have heen said that he was a mere pensioner upon the Government and could not therefore give an independent vote. When he goes to Texas he is attacked because he has gone away from the country and estab- lished a ranche in a foreign country. Now, sir, as to TmS QUESTION OF COMPETITION ; the hon. gentleman has referred to an al> leged fact — although it is not a fact — that some of these timber limits were sold by their holders at enormous prices to out- side people. Now, there is not one of these outside people who could not have applied 10 for his timber limit and who could not have obtained it by ordinary competition, if there were two persons who wanted ii But, sir, we are to be told that the fact that people outside will sometimes pur- chase from a man who gets possession of a limit is an evidence that the man in the first instance has got it improperly ? What shall we say, then, of a celebrated lumber company with which, if I mistake not, the gentleman from Simcoe has some- thing to do ? What are we to say of that company ? It is quite true that the un- fortunate people who put their money into it did not find that it was quite as valu- able as they were led to believe when they invested. But, Mr. Speaker, they could have come to Canada if they had thought proper, under this magnificent Ontario system , they could have got their timber limits in the ordinary way; but they seemed to have preferred to purchase from the hon. gentleman opposite, on his representations, though God knows what there was in him to commend him to them. They seemed to prefer to take his recommendation, and they gave him an enormous sum of money for the limits he controlled- Now, that was a transaction where the money really passed. Mr. Cook — I just wish to correct the hon. gentleman. The statement that he is making is false. Mr. Whitk (Cardwell)— Well, Mr. Speak- er, I will not answer that. The hiul)er8 was Hon. and yet the hon. with having turn- Kast York out of ^lled with havinu] rrow, and to what, _i grave, he insults gilt by intimating that his joininz a colonization company was an act of corruption of which no pub- lic man should be guilty. (Cheers.) Who is the next ? A gentleman who is held in the highest respect by both sides of the house, an intimate friend of your own, Mr. Speaker, Mr. Gunn, of Kingston. The third was a gentleman who, I am bound to say, turns up in pretty nearly every- thing, Mr. Hugh Sutherland. On this side of the house, we had Mr. Small, Mr. Wal- lace vYork), and another gentleman whose name I cannot distinctly make out, as it is written in a very small hand. These are the only members of the house in con- nection with the colonization companies. There were five senators. They were the late colleagues of the hon. gentleman op- posite, and the present leader of the Lib- eral party in the Senate, Hon. R. W. Scott, the Hon. Mr. Reesor, Hon. Thomas Ryan, Hon. A. W. Ogilvie and the late Mr. Gibbs. So altogether there were eleven members of Parliament, Senate and Commons, and of those six were Conservatives and Ave Reformers, Including among the Reform- ers the leader of the late Government and the leader in the Senate of the late Govern- ment. That 18 perhaps the best answer that can be given to the charge that being connected with a colonization company unfits a man for a seat in Parliament and lays him open to the suspicion of beinc in- fluenced by corrupt motives. (Cheers.) Those colonization companies, moreover, did not simply cet their contracts and do nothing. The Government received from those companies $760,253 in hard cash evidence, I think, and pretty strong evid- ence, of the good spirit with whicli they went in to complete the work they hud undertaken when they entered into the contract. One company alone, the Saskat- chewan Homesteail company, paid $156,- 000 to the Government. In addition to that we have the sworn statement of their auditors, after an examination of their books, that the company had expended in securing settlement, in aiding settlers, in putting them upon the land, in erecting mills in some cases, in building roads, in supplying the settlers with seo'i grain and in assisting them in every jKJSsible way, not loss than $367,i)32, in addition to the amount paid to the Government. ^Cheers.) Yet we are to be told that the policy which induced numbers of persons, men outside of Parliament altogether, for the number of members of Parliament was infinitesim- ally small, to undertake the colonization of the Northwest, is to be denounced by hon. gentlemen opposite as if It was a vio- lation of the duty of the Government and reflected in some way upon the character of members of this house. (Hear, hear.) ; I do not think it is necessary I should say more in relat' ^n to THE ARRAIGNMENT OP THE GOVERNMENT I by the hon. gentleman opposite. I have I dealt with the several points to which he ! referred. I have shown you, sir, that as . to the timber limits any man could come ; in and get them under the regulations ; ; that the policy of competition is now the j absolute policy, and that as to one-third of the cases where limits were given since 1878, they were let by public competition. As to the coal areas, 1 have shown that they are open to anyone to go in and take a coal area, by paying his $10, and that the result has been largely to reduce the price of fuel. (Cheers.) I have shown that as to the grazing lands, we have re- ceived an enormous amount in actual cash, and that we have the advantage of a lower price for the food supplies to the In- dians and the Mounted police, (Cheers.) I have shown as to the colonization com- i panies that we have secured through their instrumentality .*ad the work they have I done, important settlements in the North- ! west country which would not have been there to-day without their exertions ; that the country has received a large sum of money— over $750,000 ; that there has been received in connection with the set- tlement of the Northwest $365,000 outside of timt ; and that all that has been done under the operation of a jK^licy o|)en to evorybot receive patents for their lands through delays, the . ault solely of the Government, which rendered it innM»Hsihle for them to obtain entry fur the lauds settled U{>on ; 2. That owing to the system of surveys, these parties were unable to obtain the land they had settled on and improved prior to survey ; 3 . That they were entitled to the same right as has been acco-ded to the half- breeds of Manitoba; 4. That the lands on which they had for years resided had been sold over their heads to others, chiefly speculators ; 5. That the timber dues have proved very onerous to them, and were a gi'ave couse of dissatisfaction ; and 6. That the dues for cutting hay on Gov- ernment lands were also onerous, and a cause of great dissatisfaction. The half-breed outbreak has been con- fined wholly to those living on the south branch of the Saskatchewan river, above range 26 west of the second meridian, and those in the vicinitv of and immediately west of that river, in the neighborhood of Duck lake, as shown by the list enclosed, prepared with great care and from tbo oest information possible. Louis Marion, a very intelligent half-breed, who has lived in the vicinity of Duck Lake since 1880; Louis S(!hmidt, a half-breed, who lived from 1881 to 1884 in township 45, range 1, west third; Baptiste Boyer, a half-breed, who, during the vast ten years, has lived in the vicinity of Batoche, and George! Duck, lately agent of Dominion lands, Prince Albert, are my authorities for other information than that which has been ob-1 tained from the afiidavits of t' e partiesl themselves, it being necessary to obtain] information from other sources than the! said ailidavits, as many of the claimants! have not (lome forward, although repeat- edly re(]UCHtett to do so. and give evi(lence| in sujjport of their lanu claims. The list include, 1 think, every half-breed who i« a settler on or claimant to land in thad district, and who, with their families, ron-j Btituted probably upwards of 95 per cent 13 ION. astern of surveys, )le to obtain the n and improved itled •ded to the same to the half- ^hich they had for in sold over their speculators ; lues have proved ,iid were a grave ; and ^ •uttinghayonGov- [so onerous, and a iction. kak has been con- ang on the south lewan river, above cond meridian, and ■ and immediately le neighborhood ot y the list enclosed, care and from tbo h\e. Louis Marion, ilf-breed, who has • Duck Lake since lalf-breed, who lived .wnship 45, range 1, ioyer,a half-breed, en years, has hved atoct»e,and George )f Dominion lands, authorities for other which has been OD- avitBof re parties necessary to obtain er sources than the ly of the claimants rd, although ttin.wvn- repeat [ramriWe'evidencPi A claims. The list half-breed who i antt« landinthft their families, con ardBof 96perc«n II ^f the half-breeds who took an activti part, ; as followers of Kiel, in the late outbreak, j The remainder were strangers who had no i interest in the country or cause, but were attracted by the excitement and pillage incident to all such outbreaks ; some few probably took part because their hearts were in it During my first visit to Prince Albert, in August, 1883, 1 instructed Mr. Gauvreau, then assistant agent, a French- Canadian, to visit every I'rench settler, half-breed or otherwise, in the district, as- certain what particular quarter section he was on, and urge him to make entry. This he did ; but, although the Roman Catholic priest urged them in a like manner, for some reason or other they failed to do so. Some were deterred through ignorance, thinking that they would have to pay taxes ; others have stated that they feared if they did so the Government might call upon them to bear arms, but against what foe does not appear to have been very clear to them. Like all ignorant people, A FEW DHSIGNING, MICHIBVOUS MBN who have their ear, can work on their ignorance and prejudices for the advance- ment of their own selfish ends. This is particularly uoticeable in the case of those who settled subsequent to survey along the South Saskatchewan river. In spite of the fact that every Dominion Lands act which has ever been in force has con- tained a provision making it an illegal proceeding to settle on land subsequent to survey without first obtaining entry there- the necessity of which is obvious, any of them have done.so, while others ave squatted on odd sections, Hudson's ay company and school lands, knowiug hat they were set apart and not open for omestead entry. It is said that they ere urged to settle ii this manner by rtain parties who for sc ae reason or an- ther thought it advisable to concentrate ttlement along the banks of the river as uch as possible. While on this point it ight be as well to direct your attention the fact that the contention has always n for ten chain lots, and that many ave preferred, and all would preler if the and were available, <;laims of twenty ains ; whereas many of the loaders in he movement liave preferred claims and atered by quarter sections, thus by their wn acts protesting against the ten chain intention. Another, and the strongest point, is that except in the cases of the claimants to those portions of section 1, 2, 11 and 12, lying east of the Sas- katchewan, in township 45, range 1, west 3rd, every other settler could practically obtain what he desired by taking legal sub-divisions or portions thereof, as has since been done. I ex- plained this to the Rev. Pere Andre, in an interview which I had with him in the autumn of 1883, as I also did to the Rav. Pere Vegreville and Mr. Charles Nolin in an interview in January, 1884. In fact, whenever the question came up I urged these people to take their claims in this way if they insisted in settling in this manner, thus saving the expense of a re- survey and the delay incident to the same, stating also that the Government, having once surveyed the country, would not be justified in going to the expense of a resurvey merely to suit the ideas of those who settled subsequent to such sur- vey, and further, that those who were there prior to the survey, would have strong grounds for insisting on entry be- ing given as the law and system of survey required, viz., by quarter section. If the Government in these cases made a resnr- very at the public expense, every other community and settlement throughout the whole' country would have as good grounds for having surveys changed to suit their convenience, whims, or caprice. Other ofiicials of the Government have, aho explained this to them. In all the interviews with these people they stated that they had been promised a river lot survey. They seem to have based this as- sertion on the promises made by the Min- ister of the Interior to the Rev. Pere Leduc and Mr. Maloney, of St. Albert, which was that when several had settled to- gether prior to survey, and whose hold- ings could not be made to conform to the sectional system of such survey, in such cases THB RIVHR LOT SYSTEM OP SURVHY would be adopted. Attention should be particularly diret^ted to the fact that in all the petitions and letters presented by Pere Ijouuc and Mr. Maloney to the Min- ister of the Interior, not the slightest mention is made of the settlors on the South Saskatt^hewan desiring rive.- lots. They represented the settlers at St. Al- bert, Edmonton and Fort Saskatchewan. - — - I t.l I 14 In the petition presented by Pere Leduc and Mr. Maloney, the settlers ask treat- ment similar to that which has been granted the settlers in Manitoba, and also at Prince Albert in the Northwest. This treatment had been granted to the set- tlers on the South Saskatchewan in the river lot survey of the parish of St Laurent Some considerable delay in granting entry occurred owing to One Arrow's Indian reserve coming so close to . the river that manv of the lots could not have their two miles, which the settlers insisted on having. To this the consent of the Indians had first to be obtained and the necessary change in the survey effected and the plans prepared, so that it was not till November, 1884, that the of- fice was in a position to grant entry. Along the South Saskatchewan, outside the parish of St. Laurent, prior to the survey, there were only fifteen families settled, and they extended along sixty miles of the banks of the river (count- ing both banks.) Tlie contention ^hat the expense of a survey into river lots of that area should have been made to suit that number of settlers is absurd. Fur- ther, there is yet no evidence to show that such a survey was 'lesired, in fact the ac- tions of the majority would indicate the contrary. Every one of them could have obtained ontry by a quarter or half of a half-section, covering all their improve- ments, without interfering with the claims of others. The lists show who those fifteen were. In March, 1884, I instructed Mr. George Duck (the plan of the parish of St. Laurent having just been received, the change in the survey of the Indian reserve, however, not being effected until the lol- lowing November), to proceed to that parisli to take evidence iu support of those claims there, and all others above and be- low the same, ilo engaged the service of the Ilev. I'ere Andre to assist him in ex- plaining to these i)eople the obj«ct of his visit ; he obtainea applications from near- ly all the t'lainiants, from the upper part of the settlement down In t)ie south limit oi townsiiip 45, range l.west third. In this township, owing to a bend in the river, there wive soverul uisimted claims, which at the lime could only be arranged by makvnt^ a traverse of the improvements, which IS now buing done. If, at the Vi me of survey, therto claimants in Huid jKirtion of township 45 had furnished the surveyors with the information necessary to adjust their claims, they could have been settled as soon as this township was open for entry, viz, Sepfcember, 1881; but since then, through transfers and settlement by others thereon, they have become very compli- cated. If, at any time since then, these parties in said portion of township 15, had united and furnished the department by means of survey, with the information necessary, the whole matter might have been arranged and entry granted long since. Below that point the settlers had taken up their claims in such a way that, with the information on the township map, the river keeping across the entire lands claimed in an almost due east- erly course, it was not deemed necessary to visit them on the ground to adjust the claims; these parties, it was thought, would be able to state, on application at the ofllce, what lands were claimed by them. Many, al though notified to make their applicatione for entry, refused to do so, in some caset purposely leaving their houses when visit ed for that purpose, and acting in thie manner although urged by then priestE and others to do as requested. The in- formation and evidence obtained by Mr Duck having reached Winnipeg in June shortly after I had started tor Edmontoi and Battleford to investigate and adjus the squatters' claims in those localities your predecessor deemed it advisabh they should not be acted upon by the lan( board in mv absence. On my return U Winnipeg, late in the autumn, they we taken up, and the necessai7 recommend tions made ; and between the 27th Feb Aiy and the 6th March, 1885, all th( claimants were NOTIFIED TO 00MB FORWABD AND Mi ENTRY ; and those who were entitled to paten] having resided on their claims thre years, were informed that, upon their a] piling for patent, the same would issn without delay. Only one entry has Bind been made, and that was by the Bej Pore Moulin, on behalf of the corporatiq of the Kevds. Peres Oblats. For convj nience the lists Imve Deen divided inj three classes, and J trust that the inform^ lion contained iu such lists of claiman| before referred to, and the remarks ther on, will be found sufficiently full and ^}^ f i 15 Bi- edi hel 3Be| >to| hat lecessary to adjust L have been settled a* was open for entry, L; but since then, settlement by others acome very compli- le since then, these on of township 15, (bed the department with the information matter might have entry granted long ,int the settlers had 1 in such a way that, in on the township 3g across the entire Q almost due eas^ was not deemed t them on the! the claims; these! 'ht, would be ableto| I at the office, wht by them. Many, al- lake their applications do so, in some caset leir houses when visit e, and acting in thii rged by then pneste i requested. The m ince obtained by Mr d Winnipeg in June started forEdmontoi investigate and adjus QS in those localities ieemed it advisable acted upon by the land ;e. On my return t^ he autumn, they wei iece8sai7 recommends )tween the 27th Febn March, 1885, all tW FORWARD AS STRY ; ere entitled to pateni n their claims threP ed that, upon their aj the same would issfl ily one entry has slnd that was by the Rei lialfofthe corporatic res Oblats. For convj ave T>een divided inj I trust that the informi such lists of claiman] and the remarks therj lufflciently full and ei Elicit These three classes are as fol- )W8:— 1. Those who settled on the west bank of the Saekatche\, an and in the neighbor- hood of Duck Lake, who since September, 1881, have had an opportunity to make entry for their lands and apply for their patents ais soon as the necessary three years residence had been completed, so that the question of surveys or patents does not anect any in this list. There are in this list seventy-five residents as claim- ants. Of these fourteen had settled prior to the survey having been made on the ground, two of whom have not yet made entry. Prior to the land being open for entry, and subsequent to the field worW being done, the records of the Prince Albert office show that four other parties had squatted on the land, 40 had resided on their laims three years, 20 could rot obtain ntry on account of the disputed boundary tween the parish of St. Laurent and 'One Arrow "Indian reserve, as hereto- lore explained, 4 vere the disputed claims IS neighbors, Lepine, q township 45, range 1, west 3rd, also ex- others, protested, on tlained, and the remaining 16 could have nny had agreed with ffected entry and made application if not make entry. They hey had so desired. The 20 claimants in lad all agreed not to he parish of St. Laurent were notified not ing that, by such a ater than the 6th March, 1885 that they aent ultimately would ould make entry and obtain patents ind the delay in ac- has already been ning 14 could long ry if they wished, THH SOUTH BANK. its to land along the L the vicinity of the 1 river, below the ship 45, range 1, west ides 45 claimants in it has issued to one, ine of these have had entry since Septem- one has done so— the ly. Canny appeared ry or February, 1884, ication for patent, by Iff tlie river into iut going back to say, 6tn March, 1884, not be given on ac es not having fumishe uired to adjust thei •emaining 32, 4 madi rtly after the land w lade entry in 1885. Th ' them have preferredlnd assuming that the delay in granting 1 purchase, uie other ntries in St Laurent parish was wholly )wn actions; but these lefault of the Government, we find that jputed portion in town t that date onlv ten, or lees than 4 per ist 3rd, already allude Ant, of the 258 claimants were entitled to itents. Out of the 258 claimants 175 are anitoba half-breeds, 24 are enumerated Northwest half-breeds, 20 are enumer- d as doubtful whether Manitoba, North- est, American or treaty-taking half- reeds, 39 are American treaty-taking (iTyet applied for entrylalf-breeds and others who are not half- this month the evitl reeds. enable the departmen Of the 24 enumerated as Northwest s are claimed ny them alf-breeds, 8 failed to appear before the mention that the par alf-breed commission, and as neither igo 28, west 2nd, lyini escendents of them nor heirs thereto ap- itchewan river, thougl eared, it may be safely argued that they 882, had its west limi ere the part north of th jjqt bi^tituid to any rights linl^78,sothatau3roiv , Northwest half-breeds. Of the 20 en- ortlon south of tfo rive ^^^g^^^ ^ doubtful, 16 ^r any descend- KT Siir«^ceSa?S5 '^ o' »»~« «' ^««»' ^^^ to »PP«" ^ le was situated. Thii fore the half-breed commission, leaving 4 who possibly are Northwest half-breeds.. Deducting the 8 who failed to appear and adding the 4 doubtful ; ones who possibly are genuine, gives 20 Northwest half- breeds, being less than 8 per cent of the whole. Taking all who are enumerated as Northwest half-breeds, and assuming those considered as doubtful, if correctly placed, would leave about the same pro- K)rtion, so that less than 10 per cent are orthvvest half-breeds. Taking all who are enumerated as Northwest half-breeds, and doubtful, would make 44, which is but 17 per cent of the whole. The total number of applicants of male adults before the H{ilf-breed commission at Duck Lake and BUtoche were 15, women and children 52. Now we come to ribl's councillors and lbadbrs in the agitation, other than Eiel himself Gabriel Dumout, councillor-in-chief, a Northwest half-breed, had made entry foJ his land on the 1st March, 1883, and if en- titled to patent, could have obtained it- Joseph Delorme, second in command, a Manitoba half-breed, first made improve- ments on his claim in 1882 and began res- idence the same year ; the total value of the improvements on his claim is $140. As he settled subsequent to survey, he could have obtained entry had he con- formed to the survey as made. Philip Garnot, a native of the province of Queoec, first began residence on a claim purchased from Charles Nolin in 1883 ; the improvements were valued by him at $900, and as he settled subsequent, to survey he could have obtained entry had he conformed to survey. Baptiste Boucher, a Manitoba half- breed, first came to the Saskatchewan in 1882, and has never applied for entry. Moses Ouellette, a Manitoba half-oreed.. refused to appear to give evidence, so I cannot state as to his land claims, except that at the time of the outbreak he was a Tosident on a river lot in the parish of St Laurent Baptiste Paranteau, a Manitoba half- breed, has been living on liis claim, a river lot in the parish of St Laurent, since 1872. Pierre Paranteau, sr., a Manitoba half- breed, first settled on a river lot in the parish of St Laurent in 1882. Emmanuel Champagne, a Northwest "tl _ 18 half-breed, first settled on the land claimed by him in 1877, a river lot in the parish of -6t Laurent Norbert Delorme, a Manitoba halt- breed, first settled on a river lot in the parish of St. Laurent in 1880. ^neas Poitras, sr., a Manitoba half- hreed, first settled on his claim in 1875, and could have made entry and obtained patent since early in 1884 if he had so de- sired. Joseph Vandalle, a Manitoba half- breed, first settled on the land claimed by him in 1882, and could have made entry had he conformed to survey as made prior to his settlement. Pierre Henry, a Manitoba half-breed, firstsettled on his claim in 1882, came to the Saskatchewan in the same year, could have made entry had he conformed to the survey as made. Francois; Fiddler, a Manitoba half- breed, settled not prior to 1882, abstained from giving evidence, could have obtained entry had he conformed to survey made at the time of his settlement David Tourond, a Manitoba half-breed, bad a homestead entry in township 41, range 2, west Srd, made entry on the 10th March 1884 ; first came to the Saskatche- wan in 1882. Calixte Tourond, a Manitoba half-breed, had a homestead entry in township 41, range 3, west Srd, made entry March 3, 1884 ; first came to the Saskatchewan in 1882. Maximo Lepine, a Manitoba half-breed, settled on land subsequent to survey, but it being a school section and he knowing it was such, could not obtain entry, desir- ed that it be given as a river lot, though from sales he has made to others he originally must have claimed at least forty -chains frontage on the river. Alexander Fisher, a Manitoba half- breed, made a homestead entry, and had been told, prior to outbreak, that he could have his patent any time he applied for it Philip Garripie, a Manitoba half-breed, had claimp on the river, one of which he sold to iiayter Reed in 1878. This claim according to the description would also cover parts of the claims of several other settlers, and contained 400 acres, another claim was also bold by him to T. J. /gnew for $2,000, m 1882, which is described as 4h0 south haif-section 12, townihip 45, range 1, west Srd ; he then went and squatted on land in about township 4, rangA 27, west 2nd, but neither himself nor family have ever preferred any evidenoe in support of same though knowing it was surveyed. Charles Nolin, a Manitoba half-breed, at one time Minister of Agriculture for Mani- toba- He left Manitoba in 1878 or 1879, and settled at Touchwood hills ; after re- siding there for bome time he sold the claim upon which he had been living, and in 1882 moved on to a claim in township 42, range 1, west 3rd, then surveyed. He lived a year on this land, and then sold his claim to Philip Garnot, the secretary of Biel's council, and in 1883 squatted on section 11, township 45, range 28, west 2nd, a school section, and then sur- veyed. Michel Dumas, a Manitoba half-breed, first came to this country in 1880, settled on section 11, township 45, range 28, west 2nd, and sold his claim to Thomas McKay in 1882 ; never applied for entry. Napoleon Nault, a Manitoba half-breed, a cousin of Kiel, and who, with Lepine, is said to have, on the suggestion of Kiel himself during bis visit to Manitoba in 1883, started the agitation and so shaped matters that a delegation was appointed to proceed to Montana and invite him to come and head the movement on the Sas- katchewan, first came to the district in 1878. had two claims— one lot 26, St Laurent parish, and the other on the west side of the river, nearly opposite. He might have made entry for the land on the west side of the river, which has been open for entry since September, 1881 • he lived on this claim for some time, and in 1882 removed to lot 26, St Laurent, upon whici^ he continued to reside up to the time of the outbreak. Of the twenty-one enumerated, which includes all those prominent in the move- ment and instigators of the outbreak, one was a native of the province of Quebec : one was a Northwest half-breed, and nineteen were Manitoba half-breeds who had received their lands and scrip under the Manitoba act in Manitoba, as either heads of families or as minors ; four had obtained entry and could have obtained patents if entitled thereto; 11 settled sub- sequent to survey and could have ob- tained entry at the date of settloment had y be then went and about township 4, : neither himself nor >rred any evidence ugh knowing it was tiitoba half-breed, at igriculture for Mani- .bain 1878 or 1879, rood hills ; after re- e time he sold the liad been living, and , claim in township ihen surveyed. He land, and then sold arnot, the secretary I in 1883 squatted ship 45, range 28, ction, and then sur- laniioba half-breed, ntry in 1880, settled ip 45, range 28, west tuto Thomas McKay i for entry. Manitoba half-breed, who, with Lepine, is ) suggestion of Riel risitto Manitoba in ation and so shaped ation was appointed a and invite him to ovement on the Sas- e to the district in ms — one lot 26, St he other on the west learly opposite. He itry for the land on ver, which has been September, 1881 ; he )r some time, and in 26, St Laurent, upon to reside up to the enumerated, which minent in the move- of the outbreak, one province of Quebec; 'est half-breed, and oba half-breeds who mds and scrip under Mauitoba, as either as minors', four had could have obtained ereto; 11 settled sub- uid could have ob- ate of settlement had 19 y conformed to the survey as then de ; five wej?a settled on river lots in Laurent parish, and early in March, , thev were notified to come forward m%.ke entry and obtain patents if en- )d thereto. They were assured in May, 4, by Mr. George Duck and by myself 'anuary and February precedmg, that ry would be granted them shortly. (Philip Garripie) had already di's- ed of two land claims, one for the con- sration of $2,000, and had afterwards atted on surveyed lands without ap- ing for entry. It has been stated that location of the lane office at Prince •ert was inconveniei to these people, las also been stated that objection to ing entry was, to some considerable But, caused by certain parties who ight that uitimately the Government Id by such a course be compelled to blish a land agency at Batoche and of themselves constituted agent, the half-breeds in Prince Al- , district freight more or less, headquarters for freighting is Mnce Albert, where they deliver freight and are paid, and there is cely a half-breed adult in the district does not at least once, and many of Da several times, in every year, visit ce Albert, hese people are frequently buying and ing their claims prior to survey or en- or previous to obtaining a recommen- on for patent, and no amount of ex- xation seems to make them understand it such transfers are illegal. rJBL QUEaTION. le total amount collected as timber i, from all the settlers embraced in three lists since the establishment Crown timber office, amounts to [25, which divided by 258, the number laimants amounts to 31 cents each for years, or at the rate of 1 ] cents each for each settler. Of that amount 25 was paid by four settlers for timber for erection of stores and shops, ling $25 which has been paid by the jaining 254 bettlers as office fees on lestead permits, known as free per- 9 — 10 cents for each settler for two rs, or at the rate of 5 cents per settler [annum. HAY PBRMirS. As you are aware, the object of hay per- mits was to protect the small settler against the large stockman or spec- ulator, and it has always been op- tional with settlers whether they to^ out permits or not. If they chose, they could continue the practice of the past by cutting hay anywhere. This has been explained to these people. They have never been asked to take out any permits or pay any dues, the hay being plenty and no large stockmen or speculators to inter- fere with them. The hay for the town of Prince Albert, or any large stockmen in that district, has been obtained elsewhere than in the neighborhood of these set- tlers. 1. This report shows that of all the 258 settlers at tie time of the outbreak, not one was unable to obtain patent for his land through the action — or rather non- action — of the Government, and even in March, 1884, there were only ten cases of delay, which delay was caused by the con- flicting surveys of One Arrow's reserve and the St Laurent parish. 2. That not one man of the 258, or any one else who ever resided in the district, ever lost one inch of land through the sys- tem of survey, when such survey was made subsequent to his settlement thereon. 3. That 92 per cent of the 258 had no rights as Northwest half-breeds. Of that 92 per cent., those who were half-breeds had participated in all the rights ac- corded those people in the province of Manitoba. 4. That not one settler in the district had an acre of land sold over his head to which he had any claim, or had even pre- ferred one. 5. That the timber dues were not oner* ous, amounting only to 5 cents per settler per annum. 6. That the hay permit question never affected them in the remotest degree. All of which is respectfully submitte<^ have the honor to be, sir. Your obedient servant, Wm. Phabot, finptrintendeat