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Primitive's Letter. 
 
 From tlio UHtish WIiIk of Doccinlior l'.>, IMHl. 
 
 Sir, -I was disappointetl in tlie letter on "Post Mortem Probation," 
 recently unblislied in yonr paper. From the introduction of Mr. 
 Wisdom I was expecting a discovery whereby wicked mortals might, in 
 another world, obtain that i)nrity necessary to<pialify them for admission 
 to the abode of the blessed. But I find that after his years of careful 
 stndy the only conclusion he has reached i.s to tind fault with what the 
 Almighty liuler of the Universe in His word hiis made known to us 
 mortals, and so he is as much in the dark as ever. This is very disap- 
 pointing,', especially to those mortals whose actions will not bear close 
 ins})ecti()n. If sui'h a scheme was i)repared in tln^ Divine economy there 
 would have been some mention of it. Not a word can be found in the 
 Bible to encourage such a theory, but most emphatically do the Scrip- 
 tures point out two j)laces in the future. In Matthew xxv., :}lst verse to 
 end of cliapter, and in Kevelations xx., 11, we have a description of the 
 last .judgment from the lii)s of the Judge who, surely, should be (jn.dified 
 to s])eak on this important subject. The court consists of Christ -; 1 
 His angels. All nations appear before Him. There is no excep 
 Both small and great have their trial, and s(>nt(>nce is passed accordir 
 to their conduct; and from tliis judgment tliere is no higher cujurt oi 
 api)eal. No mention is made of any being reserved fm- a fresii trial of 
 doing better. On reading tht> i)arabl(> of the tares, Matt. xiir. cliap., MT 
 verse, we will tind the time whcMi this scene will take place, also tlie 
 causes that i)lacethe inhabitants of this world in thtur several positions. 
 Two kinds of seed are .sown, producing fruit liarv€\sted at the end of the 
 world. The angels are the reapers. Nothing is .said about making good 
 out of the tares. I cannot agree with Mr. Wisdom when ]w states tliat 
 Protestant ('hurches are at variance with the teachings of Scripture, 
 neither can he, in the; face of tlie facts I have referred to, show that there 
 is inconsistency or absurdity iibout the orthodoxy of what those ungra- 
 cious preachers teacli. H»> wlio has stated has jjower to make good 
 
what Ho ft«Hert8. or J.eaven an<l oaitl. muHt pass .xwav M.- w; i 
 
 ingsisthe chv,no i„fl„e„,.e of the Holy Spirit wi-iel. /rwork nTin the 
 hearts and oonsdences of all .nankind, prompting them o t^a? w". JT 
 iH goo.1 and If they follow the light which they have th.^- vil be sa ed 
 Saxnt Paul u, the 1st .-hap. Romans. 18th verv fnl v de cribes t' e 
 
 and hated hat wl„eh was good, so God left them to follow the" helrW 
 
 ways. The Jewish nation was the centre of the known world and shed 
 t,he inflnence of the true God upon the nations of the earth bu he 
 rejected «,e Light and were destroyed. Christ sent forth Hi; dTsciples 
 to make known the Gospel to all the earth. Their march Is ill 
 
 ^L:r^dh:-;::iXt:i^;^ rr^ ^^"- 
 
 truth and the resnltisthattoi;lta:^:i^^^^ 
 
 the crescent is where the cross wa.s first unfnrle^l Th« jl ' Tl 
 
 ^Hst^d they are to-day a standing nion,::::::' of dM^::.^::^ 
 Ml. Wisdom had better, before he again attempts to express his 1^^]!^: 
 about the actions of Deity, follow the advice Jven bv H Hi ., t*^ 
 in the 1st ohn«fAv .<t* , ,. ^'^^" ">*"« Apostle James 
 
 uie 1st cliaptei. "If man lack wisdom let him ask of P.>i i 
 
 giveth to every one abundantly and upbraidoth not " ''''" 
 
 October. 1881. PRIMITIVE. 
 
Reply OFJOHN Wisdom. 
 
 will, me tl,.l " Prl' ™ ''"' V ""'""^ °' "' '■'^'"■" "'" ■*"" 
 
 by attacking eachZunlTtr' """"""".v c™,l, „,y doctrine 
 
 won,,, i.«v/a«„„a7o:::;'ri icXTyn'L^r i.-«.„u h ,,., „^ 
 
 r;""" "' " '»""■■ »l'° i» 'lri"kin« L mi-k of the Wn'", , , " '" "'" 
 to cli|?e»t tlic stronK meal thereof i , i ., ! ™'' ''"' °»' "''le 
 
 .hem l„ „c weaned tam l„e „n,nVl e'1;:r,'"Tt '" "7,'^""""" 
 that men should partake a liffla t *i . ^ '"^'* ^^'"e now 
 
 ">.ie to give goorct:, J *:,,':,:'?'''' t*' "■"' ""-^ "■"•' ''" 
 
 .hose sceptic, who „,t multi ;;;; "gt^ ,: "■:*: ■' ■» '"- '0 »" 
 «nipriae,l that infidelity h i>m ,„„..■ '. f. '"**'"'■ ' »"> "ot at all 
 i«^ in,leed. I wonld 1 Z ^ Z TA'T,",'^ """f" '" ""> »»■•'" »" " 
 .-»•» mind, «.„i„g ,|,a, inHdl r „ « ..'I'i"' """' " «™ '"»" "< 
 
 nnwox-thy views of Oocl as our Redeentr M, P ^^7 "' "'"'""^' '"'"^ 
 cannot show tliat there ,« in ..« 'I^ ' " ^'' • P"n»tive asserts that I 
 
 Protestantism when t^^ZXt i 7 ""■ t""'"^^ '" *^'^ ^''-'"^^ ^^^ 
 
 think I <.an make it oW f / , ". '^ "* "" "'^^rmediate state. 1 
 
 a denial o It t" nT'Tt ' J"'"' ,"" -*----"'^*« ^tate involves 
 
 the most ...nphatn- 'hM-larations of the New Te.sta- 
 
inont. If my opponent is so Kroun.lo.l an.l srttlc.l in his iWn^icn] ciwl 
 iw to 1)0 iniporviouH to conviction, then 
 
 '•More powerfnl proof hIiuU take the ttehl riKuinHt him, 
 HtionKPr tliivn douth and MinilinK "t the tonih." 
 
 He tells me that not a won! can he fonn.l in the Dil.le to eneoiimK<^ 
 Huch a theory as mine, an.l lie brings into the tiehl aj^ainst me the Rivat 
 iiltnnate (le< .sions of the last jn.lgment, and he savs " from this jndK- 
 laent there is no hiffli..r court of appeal." Very true. Certainly I do 
 admit that there will hv no higher ccmrt of appeal than this. "^Hnt is 
 this the only jndgment mentioned in th... .Sia-iptnresV Observe what 
 St. Panl declares in )-•« 2nd Epistlo to the Oorinthians, v. chap lOth 
 verse:-" F<n- we mn ,ill be made manifest before the jndgment seat 
 of Christ, that each one may receive the things done in the bodv ac- 
 cording to what he hath done, whether it be good or bad." (lam 
 quoting from the revised version in this letter, because it gives the 
 proper renderings of the original (Ireek.) Here we .liscover another 
 judgment antecedent to the final judgment. Note now the distinction 
 existmg between Him who sits on the throne of the last jmlgment an.l 
 ■ Him who sits on this judgment .seat. We perceive that the decisions of 
 the Judge at the last judgment will l)e absolute and final if we look at 
 the 11th verse of the 22nd chapter of Revelation:-" He that is un- 
 rigliteous, let him do unrighteousness still: and he that is tilthy let liim 
 be nimle Hlthy still: and he that is righteous, let him do righteousness 
 still: and he that is holy, let him be ma<le holy still." Now we see also 
 that this passage is placed at the very end of the Kevelation. which fact 
 explains to us that there will be an absolute fixedness of things posterior 
 to the day of jn.lgment. Now, on the other hand, we peiveiv,. that the 
 Judg.' who sits on the judgment .seat of whi.-h Paul speaks is a High 
 Priest also. In Hebrews, r,th chapter, first three verses, we are tol.l 
 that the high pri.^sts under the Mosai.- .lispensatiou bore gentlv with 
 the Ignorant ami erring, an.l in the preceding .-hapter, 15th ver.se. we 
 read:-" For we have not a high priest tliat cannot be touched with the 
 teelmg of our infirmities; bnt one that Inith been in all points tempted 
 like as we are, yet with.>ut sin." Now I want to ask any man .,f good 
 .ludgment if I am not .Irawing a just inferen.u* wiien I as.sert that all 
 those who die in a stut.^ of ignoran.-e of the (Jospel of Christ are .lealt 
 mercifully with when their spirits come before the judgment seat of 
 C hrist. Surely if anything gives us a glimpse into the counsels of God 
 the above passages .lo. (lo.l has not left us in ab,solute ignorance of 
 His dealings witli us when we leave this worl.l. I am sure I can prove 
 to tiie entire satisfa.-ti.m of tlie most of men the tnith of these assertions 
 I am making. In the 21st an.l 22n.l verses .)f the nth chapter of St 
 J..hn wer.nvd:-"For as the Fath.-r raiseth th.. ,l(>nd an.l .piiek.'m^th 
 
tluMii. ovon HO the Hon uIho (initktMU'th whom ho will. For ii«ither cloth 
 tlie Fatlior jiuIri" iiny man, hnt In; hiith Kivi'n nil jndKnuuit nnto tho 
 Son; tiittt nil mtiy nonor tho Son, ev»'n iih tlmy honor the Father. " Now 
 Christ in His earthly life haw numifestea to m forhearanee, long-sufferinff 
 and tender mercies far exeeeding all that our reason or sense of justice 
 wotild have anticipated. Take one of tiie many exami)leH of His judg- 
 ment— tho woman taken in adultery. What a striking exhibition of 
 forbearance on the i)art of One who being without sin must havo re- 
 garded it with the utmost abhorrance. " Neither tlo I condemn theo." 
 Christ has taken just the same kitulness to heaven with Him that He had 
 upon the earth, and pos.sesses far more power to save now than He had 
 then, according to the words of St. I'aul, Komans v., 10:—" For if, whih* 
 W(> were enemi(>s, we were reconciled to (lod through the death of his 
 Son, much more, being reconciled, shall we be sa\ed by his life," My 
 opponent must have failed to s«>e the gist of njy theory, or he never 
 would have selected the parable of the tares and wheat to prove that 
 my arguments are indefensible. He says:— " N(ithing is said about 
 making good seed out of the tares. " Now, because the parable <loes not 
 state in plain terms that some of the tares may become eventually good 
 seed, Mr. Primitive rejects all the other passages of Scripture that do 
 declare that some of the tares have been brought into the fold of Christ. 
 I want to ask Mr. Primitive if the Ai)ostle Paul previous to his conver- 
 sion was not a most rank tare growing among the wheat? Now we find 
 Paul declares the reason that (lod was merciful to him in I. Timothv, 
 i., 13: — "Howbeit I obtained mercy, Vjet^use I did it ignorantly in unbe- 
 lief. " Mr. Primitive declares that man is not in that heli)less condition 
 in which I would place him. He says:— " Christ by His death on the cross 
 and resurrection has provided salvation for all mankind," and also that 
 "the Holy Spirit is working in the hearts an( ■ . . isciences of all mankind, 
 prompting them to that which is good, ni.d if they follow the light 
 which they have they will be saved." Now in my first letter to the 
 Whiff I did not assert that men who are living in the knowledge of the 
 will of God in Christ are in a helpless condition, but I asserted that all 
 those who had no knowledge of the (iosj)el of Christ (not only those 
 who lived before Christ, but after as well) are in a helpless condition, 
 and Avill remain in that condition until they come to a knowledge of the 
 truth as it is in Jesus. This i.s virtually the basis on which all of my 
 arguments in support of tlie i)ost-mortem probation theory rests. My 
 opponent cites the Ist chapter of Komans ns a proof that God has coii- 
 signed all those people to i)erdition who followed the inclinations of 
 their carnal minds, and he tries to persuade me that tliey were just as 
 guilty in the sif.!;ht of God as men are now at the present time who are 
 living in the knowledge of tlif duties which God requires of tliem and 
 
(t 
 
 ...•Kl.'ot to porforin tlM..„. l„ tl.o a2n.l vom. of thin l«t ,.|.«pt«r of Ro- 
 nmns we r.«<l : •• Who knowiuK the j,ul^n.e„t of (I0.I. that tZ whH. 
 
 ^^or.l of (*o.l tlmt thoHe people who follownl their lustH in their i^no- 
 ra,H;e are pla,.e.l un.ler the ,.„rHe of the first death. There i o f. U . 
 
 which Hhow the ,l,ffere.u-e which (J,h1 makes Iw^tween siuH hat are 
 
 Te" :; r;":"""'^ ;' ^'"^ '^""*""'"" "' C;hriHtianitva.ul„i tl 
 a.e eonn,utt.M when men know them: " For if the wonl ,^pnken through 
 anKelH prove.l «tea<lf,.,t. an<l every trans^eHsion an.l clLl i 'ZTe 
 <'e.v.l a just nHu>mpenHe of reward; how shall we escape, if we . e^le^t 
 .. Kreat salvation? '^Heb. ii., 2. -.F.. if we sin wilfnllv after tit wo 
 have receive.! the k„owle<lKe of the truth, there remain'eth no more 
 H.u.nfl<.o for Hins. hut a certain tWnl expectation .>fj„.iKment ami 
 fierceness of fire whi.-h shall devour the adversaries. ()rirw' m , 
 sorer punishment think ve. shall he he judKc.l worth,, who hath t d 
 .len under oot the Son of iU.l, and hath counted the blood o 1 
 e.»ve„a«t, wherewith he was sanctified, an nnhol.v thiuK. an.l hath ,1. .> 
 <laspite unt.. the Spirit of KraceV-Heb. x. , 26, 27. 29. 'in the 6 .tp 
 Hebrew.. 4th. r.th an.l (Jth verses, we iva.l also:-..For as touching 
 those wh.> were on.-e enl.Khte.ied ami tasted ..f the heavenlv uift ami 
 were ,„a,le partak.ns of tl... H..l.y (ihost, ami taste.l the ko,",.! wo'rd o 
 (ml. an,l the ,,.nvers of the age to come, and then fell awav, it is im- 
 p.>SHible to renew them again unto repentance; s.ving thev"..,u..ifv , 
 themselves the Hon ..f Go,l afresh, an.l put him t., an ..,,e„ shame " 
 want to ask my opponent how many of the people who lived from A.lam 
 .11 the appearan..e of (n.nst were enlightene.1 in the manner spoken .. 
 here, and how many were ma.le partakers of the Holv Ghost> Now we 
 know positively that none of the people before Christ, not even the best 
 ..t them, ever received such a ki.owle.lge of the truth. (See I Pete. 
 rea.l from 1st to i;^th verse., An.l farther, there have been millions of 
 people Hmce Christ who w..re in precisely the same state These 
 passages imply that those who si„ne.l against the Mosai.- law and those 
 who si„ne.l when conscience was the only moral governor were still 
 w, hin he b.,„nds of G.,d's mer.-y ami wer. not absolutelv cast awa 
 aiul If t iK^v w.,re n..t. where were their spirits consign..! wi.en thev .lei 
 par ...1 tjis life? They coul.l n.>t be admitte.! into heaven, because t 
 1-ea.l in Revelation xxi 27. that " there shall in no wise enter into it anv 
 thing iin.-lean. or he that maketh an abomi«„ti.,n and a lie ' NeitJ er 
 were they so wick.nl as to be consigned to the lake of fire and brimstone 
 fo Chnst declares that there is none lo.^'.. but the s..n of perdition St' 
 John xvii., 12). and in II. Th.vssalonians ii., 4. we have the'naturHf^! ^ 
 SI., revealed:-" He that opposeth and exalteth him.self against all that 
 
■ 
 
 
 proof to show that these arKunumts are worthy of ere<k.nce we have it 
 in the Ul. ..httj,ter of Revelation. Hth verne:-': And I h«w and b^hll 
 
 rollowe,l with h.n.. Now thiH ,h the i.Ieutieal place that ChriHt spoke 
 about when he prophesie.l to Peter that the gates or Ha,les shoul not 
 
 faith i.a works hy love. If the lake .,f Hre .n.l brimstone follow, the 
 flrst death u«.ueaiately, why i, it not written that instead of Zl j ^ 
 
 Perhaps some people will elain. that Death and Hades mean the same 
 tlnnK. hat .s. s.n.ply the grave, hut the 2(»th chapter of Revelation. ^1 
 
 stte .3 T; '"■"" ""* '^*'' " '^ '"^"'"^ '^-^ Hadesaspiritna 
 8tat« - And the sea gave „p the dea<l which were in it; and death and 
 Ha.les gave up the dead which were in the„>: and thev were judl 
 every man acc-ording to their works. An,l death and Ha<les we.^ I 
 into the lake of tire. This i„ the secon<l death, even the tke Tfie " 
 As the Hrst natural death has power over our bo,lies. so likewise hLL 
 has power over our spirits, providing that we are under the law of " 
 and deati.. If. however, the law of the spirit of life sets us frle fro 
 the law of s„, and death before we die, I believe our spirits are not im 
 pnsoned .n the Ha<les, but pass into a state of happin ss untu the fi "t 
 vsun-ection. after which event our glorifie<l l.odies being agai.,mited 
 
 ot the 22nd chapter of lievelation:--.. Behold, I come quicklv; and mv 
 •ewanns with n.e, to render to each n.an according as his work i^" 
 apprehend that this is the meaning of (;hri«t's saving, '• Verily verik 
 I say unto you. If a man keep my word, he shili never see'^de t" ••' 
 U.ru,t dnl not n.ean that a true (,'hristian would never see the nat «1 
 death and corruptmn which is the ..ommon lot of all. both just and u 
 just, biit He n,eant that Hades (that spiritual state that follLs the lint 
 death has no power over the spirits of true believers, because thev '«ave 
 mssed trom death (Hades) unto life. In the iHth verse of the 1st cha^ 
 ter ot Revelation we read:- "And he laid his right hand upon me 
 saymg. Fear not; I a.n the Hrst and the l..st, and the Living one- and J 
 was dead and behohl. I am alive for evermore, and I have the Lev o 
 death and of Hades." Now tiaose keys signify that Hades is .Zol 
 wherein the sp,nts of all those who die in a state of ignorance of the 
 W.11 of Ood are confined until they give sub.stantial proof o s.We 
 repe..ta„ce. .>elieve, therefore, that when those spirits rejlt mt" 
 hte they are hberat<.d fron. this prison, and pass into that state of 1 ap! 
 inness ot wln.-h 1 have j„.t spoken, an.l remain there untilthe Zt 
 resnrrectmn. I ,nn not inventing any stmnge doctrine ..„t nm expr "ss 
 
ing my firm belief that this is the truth according to the Scriptures, I 
 am not denying the doctrine of eternal happiness for the righteous nor 
 the doctrine of eternal punishment for the wicked. Most positive am 
 I that there will be two places in the future, viz., Heaven and Hell. 
 But I believe that future will be posterior to the last judgment. This 
 middle state I believe intervenes between the creation of Adam until 
 that time arrives spoken of by St. Paul in I. Corinthians xv., 24:— 
 'Then cometh the end, when he (Christ) shall deliver up the kingdom 
 to God, even the Fatlier; wlien he shall have abolished all rule and all 
 authority and power." (See also Revelation xi., from 15th verse to the 
 end. ) I am sure it argues an excessive amount of self-conceit on the 
 part of my opponent to assert that I am "finding fault with what the 
 Almighty Ruler of the Universe in His Word has made known to us 
 mortals, and that I am as much in the dark as ever." This is as much 
 as to claim that he is the rejjository of all knowledge of .sinritual things, 
 the central sun wliich is to dissipate all the clouds that hang around 
 our spiritual vision. However, sudi things as tliese are quite natural 
 to expect on account of the present system in vogue in the Christian 
 Church. Each denomination has its own articles of faith, formulated 
 by fallible men, and requires its ministers to sacrifice all their conscien- 
 tious convictions to those articles. This is not according to the spiiit 
 of Christianity, but is at variance with the precepts of Christ and His 
 Apostles, (rod has given man both reason and conscient^e, and has 
 plac?ed no obstacles to the free exercise of each; therefore th(> sooner 
 the Christian Church learns this and acts upon it the better it will bi> 
 for the advancement of (^irist's kingdom on earth. It is the will of 
 God that the Word of tl.ui Lord may run and be glorified (II. Thess. 
 iii., 1), therefore it is a zeal for God. but not according to knowledge, 
 for the Church to impose on her ministers anv other rule of faith than 
 tlie Word itself. 
 
 In conclusion, I must say that I am as i)ositive that there is a stat(> of 
 probation after death for all those who do not get a knowledge in tliis 
 life of the grace of God in Christ as I am positive that we are now in a 
 state of probation who are living under that knowledge. I am onlv 
 granting to the ignorant what God has granted to us, viz., a knowledge 
 of His will in Chviat The truth of this confronts me every time I read 
 the :5'2nd verse of tlie 11th chapter of Romans: -"For God hath shut ui* 
 all unto disobedience, that he miglit have mercy ui)on all." My ojjpo- 
 nent advised me to ask Go<1 for more wisdom, therefore I will just ad- 
 vise him to profit by the injunction of Solomon:— '* Wisdom is th«' 
 principal thing; tlierefon> giH, wisdom: and witli all thy getting get 
 understanding." — Proverbs iv.. 7. 
 
 JOHN WISDOM. 
 
[)tures. I 
 iteous nor 
 3sitive am 
 and Hell, 
 nt. This 
 clam until 
 XV., 24:— 
 
 kinf^dom 
 lie and all 
 r.se to the 
 eit on the 
 
 what the 
 3wn to us 
 i as miich 
 al things, 
 ig around 
 te natural 
 Christian 
 emulated 
 t'onscien- 
 the spirit 
 t and His 
 , and has 
 b(> saonor 
 it will l)i> 
 lie will of 
 I. Thess. 
 owledge, 
 aith tlian 
 
 ft stato of 
 ?e in this 
 now in a 
 am only 
 lowledge 
 ae I read 
 shut up 
 Ij oppo- 
 i just ad- 
 m is the 
 ;tiug get 
 
 DOM.