IMAGE EVALUATION TEST TARGET (MT-3) 1.0 I.I 1*5 HO lit u Hi 12^ 1*0 L25 iu |Z2 1.8 1.6 150mm V <^ ^; A 7 /. /APPLIED J IIVMGE . Inc .^S! 1653 East Main Street ^^ rli Rochester, NY 14609 USA .^ST -^ Phone: 716/482-0300 .='.= Fax: 716/288-5989 1993, Applied Image, Inc.. All Rights Reserved ^ V" A <>^ <^ '^^ t^\ ^ 1at the hou. geiuleman, after having made that iii)ology, which the hon. geutlovaau from Glengarry disdained to make, proceeded to dibcusH those matters m a manner which indicated, I think, that h© was hIho fully equal to tlni tank imposed upon him. There was, it, is true, on one occasion at any rate,, soma slight diucrepancy in the state- men tf of the hon. gentleman, but, generally speaking, Mr. Speaker, I may say that both of thern adhered tolerably well to the text of the docu- ment which they were asked to give their assent to, and to which they wore inviting the assent of this unamocr. xii;;i tiocumcnt. 13 -;::p;, but, though long, it is, perhaps, quite as remarkable for what it omits as for what it contains. ^Vk i; 3 Th« QoTtnor^tottMaL I entirely agree with the para- graph, and with the expresBions npon that paragraph, which have reference to the nobleman who has been lately appointed to preside over U8. It is a fortunate cireum- stanoe that for many years we should Lave had a suooesaion of distinguished i?entlemen as Viceroys of Canada, and it is a fortunate circumstance, also I think, that they ai-e men who, having already approved themselves to be tit for that position, by the place they have taken in public affairs of the Mother Country, were yet men in the prime and vigour of hfe, fully equal to an energetic and active discharge of those functions which devolve even «pon a constitutional Governor here, and of whom wo may fairly expect that they come here to improve and increase their credit and repu'ation; to approve themselves capab e of still higher positions in that pubhc service to which they have devoted themselves; and, therefore, there is every induce- ment to their discharging, as those in the past have discharged, to the full their duty to the country. We do not expect, a«I once beore observed here, from those who come to rule over us indiscriminate praise and eulogy, but we are entitled to expect, and I am glad to say we do receive, marks of an abiding attachment on the part of those who have remained among us for five or six years, towards this country, and a public exhibition of that abiding attachment and interest in the country, which certainly must be, as the hon. gentlemen have observed, of great ad- vantage to us in the country to which we look for so much, in reference to our development, and our relations with which are so important. British CdIun1)I:i. I feel, Mr. Speaker, very gald indeed to learn that jiome arrangements have been made, which the (Government think they may with confidence submit to Parliament, fcrclowngall qaestions at issue between the Province of British Columbia and the Dommion of Canada. It would be entirely prem- ature to discuss, in any detail, the particular arrannemouta with respect to which the papers are not before us, but which, we are mformed, we shall certainly receive full information about within a very short time. I was a httle amused to observe, however, the principles upon which thip Bettltrnvnt, in its main feature, was babcd, as pub^ hcly announced by the envoy of the administration in the Province of British Columbia. I should have sup- posed that the settlement was bas^ upon a fair and Uberal consideration of what the claims were of British Columbia upon Canada, but I find that it was not so— that it was upon other considerations— upon the con- siderations of the claims of the City of Victoria upon the First Ministfir. I quote from the report of the speech of the Minister of Justice at Victoria, in which he announced that result: "With reference to the Settlement BilL as It 18 called by the Local Administration! Sir AIex:^nder Campbell assured the depu- tation, reiterating the language of his coUeague, Sir John Macdonali that the Government of the Dominion baa every intention to see that the line between Esquimau and Nanaimo is constructed. This, Su- John A. considers a debt which he owes to Victoria, for the conBdence placed in him by the electors, when they returned him as thebr representative. " Mr. Speaker, an honest man pays his debts, but he pays them with his own money, But the hon gentle- man proposes *o pay his debts, incur- red in the constituencies which honor him with their confidence, at our ex- pense, and this is formally announced in (he course of the discussion which results in the settlement which is to be brought befol-e us. I was a httle , ,ri„,^, -Tj utrari'vc ilX&t tQ6 arrangement involves a SURBKNDBB TO THE A1IKBI0AN& \i I IN il find (hat a large company is i.i- eorporated for the const, action of the Island Railway, and that it is composed of sundry magnates who are very well known to fame, and who are interested, the hon. member for Glengarry may be eur- prised to hear, in the hostile railway— the Union Pacific Rail .tray. I find the name of C. B. Huntingdon; I find the name of Mr. Gregory; I find the name of Mr. Stanford. I find names familiar to most of us, as magnates of the Pacific coast — kings of that coun- try virtually by reason of their con- nection with the Pacific Railway— with whom hon. gentlemen opposite are coiitracting, and to whom they propose to surrender the coal lands and various privileges connected with the construction of the railway. They are useful persons to deal with, I have no doubt, as the publication of the recent correspondence in connection with the Pacific Railway proves, and I hope the hon. gentleman was ex- tremely careful to caution his colleague when he dealt with these gentlemen, whose letters are before me in part , and I would read them if I had no other matters of importance to din- 0US8— to caution him that such thing should not happen in Canada as hap- pened in 1 ail way negotiations with the same partiesinthe neighbouring coun- try. Hm Kortli-Weit. Now, the Speech alludes to the North-West, and the only reference that is made to the general condition of the country is a reference to the rapid increase of population which has taken place, and which is said to neces- sitate some further amendment of some of the laws affecting the territory. But the hou. gentlemen who were supplied with the brief on this occasion had, I think, in this particular, some reaon to complain, because upon former occa- sions the brief contained the figureR for the immigration to the North- West. Upon former occasions we were told at an early day, by the authority of the Government conveyed to those hon. gentlemen, what the figui-es were for the year. We have not got them for this year. Total figures have been given us; figures had been given us with reference to immigration to the United States, but we are not told what the increase to the population of the North-West was. Is it uncharitable in me to conjecture that it is because the figures given last year have not been verified by resultB? Is it because there would be an unpleasant contrast between thefigures of 75,000, exclusive of the suggested Irish immigration en nuuse, which we were told would enter the North- West last year, and the results ? 1 think we might know, even to day, whether those steps were taken which for two or three years have been pressed on the hon. gentleman, and which last year he promised me very faithfully he woulti see fulfilled, for the admeasurement of the actual settle- ment in that country. Up to this time my opinion is, as I have said before, that the principle of calcula- tion upon which he has proceeded ia one which is purely conjectural, and which does not actually measure what the settlement of the country was. Well, we have not, as I have said, the figures, and so, although the Speech has told us that there is a rapid in- crease of population ; although the hon. gentlemen were in- structed as to the figures in other parts, we were not told how rapid that increase has been which interests this legislation. Now, there is noth- ing more, as I have said, on the Nortii- West, but much more ought to have been said, and here it is that com- plain a little of the silenoa of those who have proposed to assent to this Speech, as well as of the absence of a statement in the Address itself; We know that there is more to be said about the North-West; we know that there is disappoint- ment ; we know that THBRB IS DIBOONTBKT : i. ) I I t we know that there is agitation and difficulty there ; we know that many things which a year ago we pointed out, which for several years we have been pointing ont, would tend to create discontent iu that country, are creating tlrouble and discontent, and that no word is said to the task which is to devolve upon this Parliament of considering these great questions, and of taking care that so far as they may be remediable the causes of that discontent may be remedied. Hon. gentlemen may say, no ; it is nothing, it is merely rj, tempeut iu a teapot; it is something that is not serious. But I observe the Prime Minister of that Province a friend of hon. gentlemen opposite, only the other day, at one of the ban- quets that are given to Members of Parliament in Winnipeg, and of one of which I believe the hon. Member for Provencher (Mr. Eoyal) was the fortunate recipient, followed immedi- ately afterwards by a banquet, partici- pated iu by the hon. member for Wellington — I observed so late as the 0th of January the Prime Minister of the Province is reported to have said : "At present we are on the verge of a crisis frum which we must emerge in a better or worse condition. Not, however, until the mag.6ople oi ject. It is enough to say that that I^Mted tl order has been reversed, and that at a Kuthoriti^ very late period the policy which had Jpj^*®^**^ 1 dictated, most improperly and wrongly, f"^*; ^ the closing of southern Manitoba to locking n settlement, has been changed. 1 have i»ents wl observed that the ordinary sources of *8® ^ ^* informatiou on the part of newspapers •tion eon which support the Government have ^°^ K^' praised each of these transactions, to'medtl When southern Manitoba and the wanijen mile belt were closed, it was a wise Mserted and statesman-like thing. When it effected was attempted to sell, l)y public auo- whether tion, these lands, that also was a wise imnaateri statesman-like and a proper thing. P' oontro But when tlio policy for closing was ^^ioh w reversed, when the policy of selling l»omestea was reversed, and when once again p^n* wa they were opened, that was the wisest 1*^86' and most patriotic, the most sensible thing of all. Well, I believe it was* But it seems to me hon. gentlemen are easily satisfied if, with all these vaiious policies iu the coarse of a fhort lew mouths, they are equally pi ase^l as each one is present- ed. Sir, the policy did not last a lung time, but it labted long eaougl*F^ to do a great deal of harm. Thaxot 63 indicate. lis polic; iserved IB not n tlieve, a ispendi tor colon ow tl .* it.. ViM le^-'S^S'V it we have heard no the Bpeeoh delivered I observatipua of the who have indioated of the diecuasioQ for Fow, we know that ~ie administration in » IN SOUTHBRN HANI 'OBA. were nnmerons persons who had settled upon homesteads insoathorn Manitoba rho had a right to expect that the keeping of that country open would he «ontinQonB; who had a right to expect thai the neighbouring lands would be opened for homesteading; who did , expect, and who went there on the faith le particular part of' o( it; who communicated with friends iye policy — could not Uo go on and join them, and who wero riticiyed during last 'disappointed in their expeetationn, as eason that the pap- "were many of those who did go and demanded were not Attempt to join them, by the closing of I refer to the papers *he reserves. Of that step no explan- le »tion has been ^ven. I think an ex- planation is due to the country, because I believe it is lo be one of tlie not un- important causes of the difficulties in She North-West, and to have created a kod for, and the 'ot-back which will last much longer ised, but they have ^l^^n the policy itself has lasted. Well, a House, and by then, there were other difficulties which was impossible to ^•'^ attracting the attention of the asion upon that sub- People of that country, and have at- y;h to say that that P«f»oted the attention of the constituted versed, and that at a j*»>thoritie8 of that portion of it which the policy which had J***^**^ beyond the bounds of Mani- )roperlyand wrongly, f**^*; We complained of the policy of athern Manitoba to looking up lands by the lavish arrange- jen changed. I have «»ents which were made as to the acre- ordinary Boiiroea of *8® to be granted to various coloniz- e part of newsjiapers **io^ companies. We pomted out the le Government have '*<"*• gentleman was repeatedly in- these trauaactiona. ^'nied that the practical results of the Manitoba and the ►"■anijements was that the companies iosed, it was a wise Mserted in some shape or other, and ke thing. When it 9ff«cted in some shape or other — » sell, by public auo- ^hether by law or without law was that also was a wiao '^material to the purpose — some sort nd a proper thing, r' control or check over those lands )licy for closing was ^^ioh were said to continue open to the policy of selling |»omesteading, and t'le general settle- nent was interfered with to a much larger extent than hon. gentlemen ndioate. It was not very long after lis policy was adopted that it, too, was •served by the Government itself It 18 not many months ago since, I ilieve, an Order in Council was passed ispendinga further grant of lands for oolonieation pnrposes, and we ow that the very great bulk eompanies whioh were id when once again , that was the wisest 3, the rnobt sensible 'ell, I believe it waSk me hon. gentlemen id if, with all these in the coarse of IS, they are equally one is preseni- >licy did not last »i^^ la&ted long enoogup ealofharm. These | organized have utterly failed. But there, too, their policy and the eonae- qiient opening of tho»,e lands for settle- ment or sale has not prevented a mischief from being done, becaiise at a time when the ♦•yes and expectations oA numerous people were upon that coun- try, and when there was a strong desire to settle, difficulties were thrown in the way of settlers and the proi^ress of the country was seriously checked. I have said that the cons ituted authori- ties of the North-West have protested against the companies which were in active operation, aad I believe amongst the remouMtrmces which were forward- ed to the Government, is one which is from the North-West Council, in refer^ enco to the operation of the policy and the operations of a particular company. Well, there were other causcH of dis- content, to whioh also we have r<»ferred. We pointed out that the settler in that country, although when he first came there he would treat as ^)art of his oapi al expenditure, as part of his investment, the exi)ense8 of transport and the necessary incidentals to the first settl(?ment, yet would he be found seriously inconvenienced, as a rule, by these necessary expenses ; that in that country, having the great advantage of the settler lieing able to plough without clearing, there were other initial expenses — expenses connected with buildings, fences, iic, which were to be set, to some extent, against that advan- tage, and that the remoteness of the country, the expenses of transport, and these initial expenses, certainly demanded the greatest consideration on the part of the authorities who beli''ved, as I think this House at Urge believes, as I think the country believes, that what is really for the interest of the country is that the North West should, at the earliest moment, be settled with a thriving, industrious, prosperous, and contented agricultural population. We pointed out that there would be financial difficulty in the way of the settler ; and yet in the face of that difficulty, great as was, witl 'ie finan- a eUl burdens imposed on him, the Government took thn step of iaoreAsing those tarifl' bu^ens .-^t the lust Session. FrorlBdal BaQwij Oh«rt«n. Then there was the further difficulty in connection with tlie disallowance of the Provincial railway ohartera within the Ifwunds of the old Province of Mani- toba; a course which, as I have pointed out more than once is, in nty view, a derogation of tbo rights of the Piovinoe as a member of the Confederation, is not called for by the contract of the Canadian Pacitic liailway Company, and is opposed to the express declara- tion made on the subject when the contract was Lsing passed through the HouHe. And the result of this diffi- culty, of the check in looking elsewhere which the Government has inteq)osed, has been that the people of thatcountry have now their eyes turned towards the Hudson Bay, and they are anxious, even desirous, that their boundariesshall be extended and their large obligations increased by the Government and Parliament, on the faith and credit of the people of a new Province, already struggling under considerable difficul- ties necessarily incident to the settle- ment of a new country, in order that a railway may be built to that Bay, and they may thus obtain some means of escape from the grievances which they feel to be so serious in regard to rail- way communication. I will not en- large on the consequences of the scheme if it be successful. I am sure that after what has been said in regard to the Paciiio Bail way contract and the means of outlet and inlet to that country, the hon. Minister of Bailways will be found assisting to the utmost of his power the Hudson Bay Railway ; and what- ever the consequences may be to us in the east, it is impossible that we can refuse to those people any means of ingross or egress opened to them in that direction. It is quite true with respect to this very question of the monopoly and consequent high rates, that soma redress has lately been acoorded. Within a fsw days a very important reduction has been made in the Uriff on grain carried over the Cttnadian Pacific Railway. And I am very glad to know it ; i«i is a fortunate tmen. It indicates that the company is accessible to the re- monstrances of the people, when sufficiently loudly expressed; but it in- dicates also that those conii)Iaints which were made as to the taritf" were sound complaints. It indicates that the TariiT was too high ; or else why was the reduction made ? It indicates, there- fore, that the grievance which we said would arise has arisen, and at any moment may recur. On the whole, this subject, to which the hon. gentle- man has thought tit not to give any at- tention in the Speech from the Throne, and which the hon. members who moved and seconded the Address in reply, thought unworthy of n- tice, eeems to be a very seriaus one, one of the most serious which we have before us. It seems to me that history is re- peating itself, and that the same. Government, presided over by the same hon. First Minister, which a number of years ago, in the early history of oui connection with the North West, im- perilled that connection by its course of administration ; has done much to thwart the progress and check the feol- lings of cordiality and kindness which ought to exist between the people of that district and the people of the rest of the Dominion. With respect to the Canadian Fao. fie Railway, the hon. gentleunan who have spoken have indicated that the Speech contains matter in truth on which we ought to con- gratulate ourselves. We have heard much of the immense exertions which the company have made, of the great work which they have done, and we are told it is of the last consequencs ll that the railway should be oomplstedJ M has Utelj been 1 a few daji a T«y m haa been made in in oarried over the Railway. And to know it ; i* in. It indioatea that kcoeMible to the ra- the people, when, expreBHed; but it in- oao oomplainta which be tariff were sound indicatoa that the J 1 ;orel8e why was the It indicates, there- vance which we said arisen, and at any 3ur. On the whole, bich the hon. gentle- it not to give any at< sech from the Throne, hon. members who ded the Address in mworthy of ntice, serieus one, one of rhich we have before me that history is re- nd that the same ided over by the same ter, which a number J B early history of our ;he North West, im- ection by its course ; has done much to 38 and check the feol- and kindness which tween the people of lie people of the reat a 7a the Canadian Pae e hon. gentleman )u hare indicated contains matter in' we ought to oon- i. We have heard inse exertions which I made, of the great have done, and wo ' he last consequence Ij ihouldbe completed! within two yean from the preaeot tiui«. Mr. Siieaker, I consider the statement made in the Speech to be one of a ?[ravo and alarming character* It in> onus ua that during the reoeaa ef Parliament the Government took the responsibility of arranging for the guarantee of the interest) at a certain rate upon 165,000.000 of the stock of the railway, on rectaving cash and ■ecurities. That was a transaction which, as I understand it, was not au thorized by the law. The Government no doubt, has power tu sell terminable annuities, but their power to uell them is oontaiued in legislation, which en- ablfiH theiu tu do that for the purpose of obtaining caMh to pay our debts ; and I de not understand that they have power to issue terminable annuities in exchange for anything elbe but that ; and theretoro, in so far as this was a ti-ansaotiou in which what the Govern- ment received was securities and not oosii, I HQi not familiar with any clause of any Act of Parliament which justifies that step. But if it were justified, it was a very grave step to take. It in- volved avery large transaction, and we have not yet berore us any indication whatever as to what theFecurities were ; what the /inid pro quo was, woat the consideration waH in respect of which the Government undertook this par- ticular obligation The transaction is aaid to have been justilied, uccompliHh ed &.S itXwas within a comparative^ brief date of the meeting of Parlia- ment, by the importance to the country of steadying and increasing the value of the stock of the Canadian Pacific Railway /ompany. And I have no doubt, f i has happened before with other Governments,- and it is the or- dinary recourse under such circum- ■tancea — bad it succeeded, its justifi- cation would have been said to have been ita auooeas ; but it haa nQt got that poor justification for a atep of this dis- oription; for, instead of having succeed- ed, it is said to have failed. And, in- deed, I am unable to peroeive how, if it were true that for eTorj dollar guaranteed a dollar of taufibi* and available seouritieii was handed over by th<) ooui{Miny, which might othfrwine have been used, tha transaction, al- though it might enhance the price of existing stock for the purpose of buy- ing and selling, could not be aaid to have the elements of permanent sao- ceac. If, on the other hand, we are to give without getting, that is a different transaction. But no new plan s in- dicated. We are told the particular plan which the Government adopted has failed, and we are told that we are to expect something or other in sub- stitution for it. The reason that ia given for this is a single reason : It ia said that the Canadian Pacific Railway Company are about to anticipate the pei iod at which it was to complete the work, and that in order to anticipate that period the company require, at an earlier date, I suppose, and perhaps to a larger extent, cash than it would otherwise require. We all recollect the boasts that have been indulged in for the past two years, as to this anti- cipation cf the work. Werecrllect the glorifications in which hon. gentlemen opposite indulged as to the standing and financial strength and conneotioiui of the corporiitors of the Canadian Pacific Railway. We recollect the sense of relief which they expressed themselves to feel and in which they Hsked the House to participate, and :he country to indulge, as to the bur- den lifted off our shoulders and placed on the shoulders of men who were able willing, and ready to bear it ; and then when they came to be, as hon. gentle- men said, "better than their word" — when it waa alleged that the eompany were going to anticipate the termi- nation of the contract — we were told that white this would be good for the country, it was done in the interest of the company, because it would be good also for them; because they believed it was a wise policy to anticipate the period fixed for the oompleiion of the Railway. They said, wa rejoioe at it and call apon you all to rejoia* and fall { 8 (»i. For two yearn it bau lieen dinned into our earn that this cor- poration waa aboat to oompleta the road. Now it turn* out that the Parliam*>nt of Oanada in to lie called on to enable them to do it ; that it ii to the Parliament and the people of Oanada ihej aro to look for further as atstanoe of an indefinite charHcter to enable them to execute their contract in the form and manner which they deem to !Im moat advaotagr-ouR for thunuelroa. Now, 1 have, on former ocoMMona, atanding here, pointed out from time to time what the position of tlie Canadian Pacific Railway waa from the statnni)>nt of thn company them ■elrea. I hare pointed out what the oost of their road would be, according to their own calculutiona ; what the ▼alue of their subnidiea of rarious des- eriptiona wa*, according to their own ialoulalions ; what t(he balance would be according to thoir own cnleulationn. And hon. gentlemen oppoaite hare said, well, it ia very important, it ia ex tremely favourable to the Canadian Paci6c Railway Company. 1, how- ever have been obliged to point out, and I did ao lant ijeasiou on more than one occasion, that it waa not the mag- nitude of their aubsidiea or the exoel lenoe of the position a corded to the company under the contract which would relieve the enterpriao from risk if prudent management did not attend its execution, and amongst the points of difficulty was this very one of a too rapid prosecution of the work. S|)eed means oost, and yo« cannot prese a work beyond a certain point, as was proved in former discussions' on this very subject, and as shown very clearly by the report of the former chief Engi- neer of the road, without the r let being very largly enhanced. We are told that the speed has not only been great but that it has been unprecedented if tint kiiborf of railway building; and if spead meana ooat what does unprece- dented apeed meant It ia dear thai tlie work haa ctmt more than it would have cosl had it b.i«n prosecuted more slowly. You cannot suddenly ebtaia tha supply of labour reuuired for such a purpotte to an extent double or treble what wauld . be required lor slower progreae, without raiaing the cost of labour, and in that regard, aa in other regards, aa I have said, I M^peat, speed means cost. The early completion of tha work, its compietiou at ao early a date aa is talked of, of course aoct lerateH the period of leas profitable worlwing. We havB not all of us yet forf;otton the statements by which the {.rice to be paid the company waa justified. It was said, there is to be a long p^i-iod after the completion of the road before you ean get any settlement and dove- lope the traffio during which the work- ing will be remunerative, and for which we have to compensate, in advance, by paying a larger price, and that is in- cluded in the sum of the price we paid. But accelerated construction, accelera- ted completion, means, of course, the acceleration of the point of that very unprofitable working to which hpn. gentlemen allude. It means more. It does not merely accelerate the point of commencement, but it intensifies the character of the unprofitableness of the working, because the faster you build, the fewer years you allow for the development of the country, the development of the trade, the intro- duction of a population to sustain the riilway when it is built, obviously the greater are the difficulties of working when you complete. Nor am I able to agree that tlio extreme rapidity which has been used and which is in- tended to be used, has done real good to the country. I am not able to agree in that view, and I think if the hon. gentleman would enquire in the North West he would find that that sentiment ia largely eatertained. Amongst the difficulties of settling that eountry, is the difficulty of isola- tion, the aparBeneaa of the settlements ; Szs^,' »WTi»*^».*ffcj! iSMSST '■ •nd what hat h««n done by the »»x- ireme rapidity of •ormtrnction haji b«^'ii to incrvaiM that difficalty m well. People have b««n icattered over a ■wid* •xpaoM of oonntry in which th9ir difficultiw hava U^n made groaW hy thia oaasn : and they hore bw'n iuduoed to look rathtr to the ehance of «oino - fortunate location tumiaf out tj be a town tit*, or a mine, than to th« steady deTflopmwut of the agricultural re- nonrcwi of the country, upon which ita future must, after all, depend ; which steady devalopmeat will be greatly favoured by comparative density of ■ettlement, and aa seriously hindered by spaneafau of settlement. Now, there is a defence of course, and that d«^ence ia the boom; but I do not know that the boom hia done the North-Weat much good either; I do not know that the great balloon which the hon gentleman sat floating in the »ir, which looked so splendid, and to ^hich they directed all eyaa, present* the same flourishing appearance to-day; •nd I believe the future of that eoun- trr has, upon the whole, not meialy not be«n helped, but haa bjen seriously retarded by the eourae of inflation •«d speculation which their policy in this and other reapeoto invited and en- couraged ; and that, therefore, it can- not bo said in respect to the boom any more than in other respects that this rapidity of construction which induced the boom, and which we now Iparn is to be had at our cost instead of the ooet of the company, waa an advantage to the North-West. Hon. gentlemen say in the Speech that the reason of the guarantee i« the need to sell the unissued stock. Without entering on this occasion, into details, I must say that I do not find that statement very much in accord with the statements ■which are officially made by the preei- d«nt and by the vice-president of the company, froj which it appears that their other reaourees, irrespective of the unused stock, would be adequate to the oonstnietion of the road. IL is flaid that ih« stoek ia not aalft^hls ^i lu. h.ir market prioei Now, t moved irr, and the House ordered, papera on this subject, but the information whiok was ordered haa not tjeen brought be> fore ua. We know that the stock nominally ia $ 100,000,000, We know that the original issue waa said firat to be siity, but I believe that later infor- mation is more aoourAu-, which plucea as the price at which the syndicate, to whom it waa entrusted, received it at fifty, and therefore the stock ia issued at about one half ita nominal value. We know from the new*, papers, if the market reporta ara to be trusted, that it has been selling at a premium which haa varied frona fifty to BJxty, occasionally going up ftbove sixty, meaning a premium of from ton to twenty or twenty-five. Hon. gentlemen opposite say that ic not enough, that it should sell at tho highest preoQium on its it the Credit Valley, the Toronto, Grey and Bruce ; the Hamilton and North West em ; the London Junction ; the South Eastern; irrespective of the Algoma Mills Branch, the North-West branches »nd North-West lines,— in most of these it is establisheo that the company have meddled in one way or other ; and in others it is asserted, and I believe rightlr, that they have also meddled, in some to a greater, in some to a leas extent. The capital involved in the acquisition of thwe various lines runs into the tens of millions, amounting to probably as much as 130,000,000 ; and I attribute to a great portion of the diflBoulties in which the Canadian Pacific Railway Company are now con- fessedly involved, to the circumstance ^at they have engaged in matters not •ontraoted for in their contract, and that with the capital which was directly due to the performance o^ the contract, they have done much more than the eontraot dem«^nded, and have done thai more in their own interest. I pointed ooi also A^t |Ke seusss which was panned in propcsing to construct another railway in competition with the other great railway of the country, through Ontario, would almost inevit- ably have the result it has had, and WOU^ i invite the hobtility of that o her railway, to the detriment of the Cana- dian Pacific flailway Compan> . I re- gretted, and I re|>eat the regret, that that hostile attitude should have exist- ed. I know not whether it now exists but I maintain that it was hardly ex- pected that it should be avoided when this competition, which wab not neces< Kary to the completion of the Can- adian Pacific Railway proper, was en- gaged in. In all these things, and for all these things, the Government have had a large part and have as- sumed a large responsibility ; they have promoted, encouraged, and aided them ; they have supported them by granting all the assibtance, all the legislation that was desired to give these additional powers ; they en- couraged them by the method of dis- tributing the subsidies in the original contract — by granting an inordinate amount towards the prairie section in- stead of reserving it for those difficult ends of the work which are yet to be completed, and in respect to which we a^e to be asked to deal stili more lavishly. We contended that the sub- sidies should be distributed in at cord- anee with the cost oi the respective portions of the work. Hon. gentle- men opposite said : No, we want to put the company into a first-class posi- tion, and we will give them what is ad- mitted to be a disportionate part of the subsidy at the beginning. That is what they did, and the results have been just as we predicted. And, Sir, while this is so while at this early period, after making the contract, the Governmemt are obliged to make the meUncholy statament contained in the Speech, we did not hear one word in connection with that statement in re- ference to the invitation to be given to us to modify tha tsrmi of the oon- rt, VI- wuij ysv^vsai. iv aa.ua i. a/a.'^ «,.%««*.* *«*<.tions in other spheres to which he alluded — in which he slipped over the remark. He did it very well. He felt thac the least said the soonest mended, and he got on the ice and off it as fast as possible. I Jo not know that he got upset, but it appears to me he ran a consider- able risk of it. We rememb*r the admirable exhibitions made by speakers on former occasions, when they were developing this part of the usual Speech from the Throne. If we Mmember the beautiful exhibitions afforded to us, first by the mover, and then by the seconder, as late as last Seesidn ; if we remember the length of time they took in their perform- ance ; if we remember the ease and grace, and the apparent delight and joy with which they dwelt upon the condition of the country on that oc- casion, and contrast it jrith the hon. gentleman's dart in and dart out again, yffi mast fepl t^t \,n this particular he Imew his biinnesB ; ¥at ve must also feel that the contrast is a little mor» Serious — a little more serious, in fact, that even the Bpeech from the Throne has told us. In truth, the 'ItUi ■ I' SUfb TizUE Policy of hon. gentlemen opposite, haa proved it self largely a failure. The period of good times, to which we are naturally entitled, cime to us a littlo later on account of the policy of hon. getLtlemen opposite, and it has left us much sooner than it ought to have done. We had two or three years of it, during which there were good crops, good market'?, a good lumber trade, large railway and other expenditure; during which the people grew more wealthly, importations crept up and the circumstanoM were such as hon. gentlemen were pleased to dilate upon in the debate on the Address. Now the conditions are changed. They are sadly changed. Why are they chang- ed 1 And why . are they changed so soon) I agree with hon. gentlemen opposite as to the deficient harvest ; I agree that they did not incorrc ctly express the degree of depression which is due to that cause. There has been a very good harvest in very many parts of the country. There has been an abundant harvest in many parts of the country. In one section of the Pro- vince from which I come — over a largo region of it — one of it's main staple crops has, no doubt, lamentably failed ; but other crops have done well in that section, and in the eastern portion of Ontario even that crop, so far as it was grown, has done fairly well. In Mani- toba, as we know, owing to an unfor- tunate circumstance which we must alldeploid, a portion, although not a very large portion, of the cereal whoso cultivation is to be the staple of that country, was frosen, and the difficulty ensued; but barring these two points, there is no doubt that although the crop is not to be described as equal to that of the pireoeeding years, we have not been sabjeoted to (he oalanuty Of a Tsry bad . V 11 ■ 'n ^>rop all over the Dominion. The erop *8 inferior, bat not a failare, and haH followed a rery brief period of pros- penty, during which we hid good crops and good pricea, and a good lumber market. Surely then, the great policy which was to do so much for this ooun- fcy; which was to give us steadiness of prosperity, steadiness of employment to our working men; which was ta •nsure to us a permanent condition of prosperity, in so far as anything can ensure it, ought to have carried us over one partial failure of a crop. But j what has happened is very serious, and It 18 not to b« accounted for by the •rop. It is due to other circumstances more in control of the Administration ' than is the crop. I have observed on i former occasions, that while hon. gen- tlemen opposite, addressing the people in the country, would not abro- \ lately tell a farmer that the crops v ere i in their own hands, that they could cause the sun to shine, and the rain to I fall, and the crop to grow, they had yet «aid — and the hon. genUeman who is laughing has himself said :— after all, | you had better vote for the Govern- I ment that the sun shines on ; Provi- dence is kind to us : "When the Grits «ome in," said the hon. First Minister, "the wee-ril will come in with them." Thus they have told the poor people of the country who have, some of them, oonfided in them, that there was some eon of high compact and alliance between them and the supernal powers under which, by means not to be dis- closed to vulgar ears, yet none the less effective, good crops were coinci- dent with the existence of a Tory Ad- ministration. I do not suppose they will take credit for that any longer Even although they hare failed so slightly, even although the crop has not been so very bad, I believe they are now much more disposed to attribute the alternations of prosperity and ad- versity to eonditions beyond their con- trol, and a crop beyond their eentrol, *han they were in formw days. But — —^"j SUBS cue cuaiige IB asaiiv ut to be mainly, though to a eonsideimble ex- tent itis, to be attributed to such causes. It 18 to be attributed to the poliey of the Administration— a policy, in the first place, of extravagant expenditure under which they took and spent ; a policy, in the second plao^ ef extrava- gant collection under whieh they took what even their extravagance eould not enable them to expend, under which they determined to abstract from the people of the country, in these years that have lately passed and the cur- I rent year, . about 120,000,000, which I will cost the people of the country j the consumers—by the time they pay it, I something approximating to $30,000,- I 000, and which they used in order I to pay for this same Canadian Pacific Railway that once more dresses the Speech from the Throne ; a policy, under which, instead of borrowing at four per cent the $20,000,000 they wanted, they have caused the people to pay $30,000,000 at some, thing like seven or eight per cent They thus abstracted from the people^ at the period they wanted it, some- thing which made the difference be- tween a good and a bad crop which we suffer from Providence, they have brought On us what is equivalent to the failure of another crop. They took what they did take unjustly and unequally. They did more. They in- vited and encouraged over-speculatbg and over-trading. They fomented the North-West speculations by the land arrangements which they made. The Hon. Minister, instead of being a prudeni pilot, told his crew that if he wereonly as young, as they and in trade he would clap on full sail for a period oi tea years of assured prosperity and then take in sail. How many of his erew have taken in sail since, although the ten years have not elapsed f How many of hia crew have gone down under the sail whieh he told them to hoiai and keep upf(M' a ten year's voyage 1 ney Tuinfy sUmoIated emy pet isdutqr; Whai o£ the cotton industry f the -.-«♦(*- Ast-r* -I 13 «ugar industry ? the iron indtmlry / and the glasa induetry t and half « dozen, other things I oonld mention which hon. gentlemen placed ander their hot-bed »7atem, and in respect of which they brought upnumerous plants, Mid which have now largely withered. Their policy resulted in over-invest- ment in manufactureri-i, overproduct- ioD, over-trading, over-importation; and had not others been wiser than the hon. Minister of Finance; had not others set that caution signal whieh he declined to set, the consequences would have been much more serious than they actually were. If they were not more serious it is due to this circum- stance. I trust that the check which was administered by some leading men who had a better knowledge of the signs of the times than the hon. fien-. ileman, who were better able to judge the course of events than he — I say, the ch»ck they endeavoured to give the administration one and a half years ago, and have been repeating ever since, has mitigated the disaster which might otherwise have occurred. I trust it is limited to a period of stringency and dullness without being advanced as it would have been to a period ot crisis and collapse. If it be so, it is due to others and not to the Finance Minister; and even as it is, ic is bad enough. It was only last Session that the h«n. gentleman who moved the reply to the Address averted to the list of bank- ruptcies as an indication of the con tinned prosperity of the country. I pointed out to him that I thought he had not releired to the autborities or her would have followed, by anticipa- tion, the prudent course which hsa been taken on this occasion and redioted, end Aie we not reaping at an earlier dav iban even we predicted, aad at a naoh earlier day than he expected, wh n he made bin prophecifs, the bitt-r harvest of his policy 1 What is the condition, under the National Policy to day, of the g*eat industry of floar-milling in Oatiada 7 How does it stand 1 He does the Tariff affect it? Has the hon. gent- leman accomodated his little difference with the milleraMs he wbo t to relieve them fiora the diffi ulties under which they ►ay they labour and which prevent ihem, th*y say, from grinding Amenoan flour ill Canada? Ha«i the result of t^is Tariff proved it^elt to be a result soand and just as applied to this country in that legarj? How is it with reference to the balance of trade? Why, ( remem- bt^r when the hon gentle • an pointed out with pride and glory, I think only two years ago — ^n hon. m«'mb«r. Three years. Mr. BLAKE. Three years was it? That for the first time in the history of Oanad* the balance of trade waa in its favoar that we had export«Ml mon* than we imp rted, and he told us what ha had accomplished, i* d he told us haw he had a complished it. And before that he had pointed eat what his duty was in that regard. He told us at an earlier perio * thnt wu had to attain to a diff rent conditi'^n of things frem that which had existed befora Ic i* true it was not v*«ry bad. Ic is true thn amount of our importati m was not Tf ry large. But the hon gentleman, in 1879, said: "Regirdi g the m iter as I do, I think it is to b-t re<{retted that the volume of imports has not been materially reduot'd." £«duoed from its > olume then, ri'duced from the small volume that then existed. "I look upon the large iinporti ever «ince the Dominion wublewith wlu h we have to contend, one of thedifficul- til B that it is our duty to lemedy. 1 hey have been decreasing to a oerl«uii extent, but are st 11 veiy largo" — how do they compare with those of last year showing distinctly and clearly, in my judgment, that they ought to be stiU further diminished. X think the&i without entering into a dis^ uaston of Free Trade and Pioteotion, so far as they affect England and the United States, we may fairly conclude) that the prosperity of the one country at thia moMent, ie caused in a great measuiv by the large surplus in its favour, and the deprt-asion in the other, by the large deficiency. He then gives the %ure8, and ^conclud s "under theae circumstances, it appears io lae that we should turn our attention to the beet means of reducing the volume of imports from all parts of the world." Having declared his duty, having pro- posed tc perform it, having rej<'ict^d three years ago in the succ ss which hasatteuded hisefforts, I want to know, to-day, what has happened to the Nat- ional Policy? Is it aseep? Has it gone on a journey? How was it last year and the year before together! How does it compare with the balance of trade in the year when he compla- ined so much? Sir LEONARD TILLEY. Very well Mr. BLAKE. I.know, Mr. Speaker, what the hon. gentleman will do. I know kirn of old, Sir. He will take a lot of averages. He is gi eat on aver- agea He does not mind the story th do and what he had accomplishe ', and we are comparing the yetr preceding 1879 and the condition of things tod ay, as to the volume of imports and the bal- ance of trade; we are oompNTinor it in. i s progreanive manner. He had obta- ined perfection three jam ago, bat now I suppose he w 11 average the three years, and say, "What have you to do 1» with the retumB of last yeart Look at the aTerage." Sir LEONARD TILLEY. No ; we will take both. Th* Soaeitlo Loaa. Mr. BLAKE. Then, besides the other progeny of 'he hon. gentleman, he brought fourth a little domestic loan this year. He thought the people did not know what to do with the reet of their m ney. After he had taken $20, 0(10,000 or $30,000,000," as I have pointed ou^, from them more than was requind, he said, "Gentlemen, there is BOriiething left in your pockets, and I believe ttiat you had better let me have it at four per cent," and the hon. gentleman's organs pointed out with a great flourish of trumpets what a wonderful and prescient Govemm'^nt this was, that proposed a domestic loan at four p r cent, and bow wise a step itwas. Well (he advertisement i»«ued, and the time elapsed, and there was what they call *'an awful panse," and the news came out that the loan bad failed; and then the hon. gentleman's organs said, "What a wonderful Finance Minister this is; he knew itwas better for the eountry that the loan should fail, and it is a most fortunate oiroumstance that the loan has failed." But the hon. gentleman was not con- tent with that, he was determined to give a crowning proof of hia titles to oar confidence, and, as the people would not take the loan at par, he put up t^e r St at a premium of two and a half per cent., and the organs said, ••This is the wisest thing of all." Well, Mr. Speaker, I am inclined to believe that the farmers of the country are b^inning to perceive the hollowness of the hon. gentleman's plans for making them rich. I am indined to believe that the working men are beginnicg to see that his Tariff is not a t-ariff which protects labour or which gives continuity of employment, as was {womised. Why, if the hon. gentleman would enquire as to these operatives who have been dismiand daring th« last few months from some of these pet iriduBtrieB, I dare say they would tell him some plain truths which would do him a great deal of good. It ig quite true that his organs, true to their duty to him, to prove that he is always mindful of the workingman above all, pointed out that the -workingman had been working too hard for some years, that he actually had become over- worked and run down and wanted a holiday, and it was the best thing that could happen to him, just as it was the best thing for the country that the hon. gentleman's loan failed, to have a little slack time at the mill, so that he mi^t go home and repose himself in the bosom of his family, and spend some of his surplus earnings; but I have not heard that the workingman has sympa- thized much with that view of the case. In Toronto city, from which I come, there is a very great deal of disti-ess; there is more distress than I have known there for many years, due in part to special and exceptional cir- cumstances, to which I will have to refer, and due also very largely to other circumstances to whieh I have alluded, and if hon. gentlemen woold read the reports of those who interest themselves in the charity relief organ- izations of that city, they would find an account very different from that which they may be disposed to give us. So of Montreal, in which the hon. member for Glengarry (Mr. Mao- master) I believe, resides. It was but the other day that I was reading a report of a St George's Society, as to the condition of things there. As to London, I do not know what the hon. Postmaster General will say about it, but I find, positively, Mr. Speaker, I find that they are proposing to establish what industry do you thi^, now t ttvttjf A.AbSttSsaa Why, Sir, a soup kitchen, and who do you think proposed it t Why it is the hon. gei)t1«man's organ, the leading 16 Oonservative '^aper in the western p irl of the Province, the London Fre$ Prens, which, on January 5th, reniiirked The present cold weather must be «*verely felt by many. The poor, 'who are always with xa,' hare certain meant- of relief from the public. For many yean* past the fund provided for assist- ing the deserviag poor has been ample and systematic in its administration." Then they proceed to point out that there are immigrants who have come in, and they Hay : "The dead of winter is a period of peculiar haidiibip to the stranger without means. The case of these men sucfgested to the establishment of a soup kitchen, and this is being done in Toronto. Why aao't the same thing bo done here. It is a simple, effectual and inexpensive way of feeding the hungry, and, we think, a natural and necessaay part of the relief eystem for the winter months. The •xistance of a public soup kitchen would protect householders from the importunity of tramps, while it might greatly assist in the geiieral relief work of the city- Once before a soup kitchen was established her e with exci llent results, its operation was regarded as a blessing, and large numbers took the benefit of it. We throw out the BBggestion at this time, because any such attempt at Christian charity on an organ- ized scale, in view of the hard winter weather, and the presence of many strangers, as well as citizens to whom such aid might be welcome, would aeen^ to be in order." Why, liavn't T been at meeting after meetipfij in which I was told ' 'no soup kitchen adw!" Havn't I often heard Ministers of the Crown pointing to the circumstance tliat there were no soup kitchens now? I am not at all certain that the hon. Postmaster General himself, in some of those orations with i^hich he has enlightened the Western Peninsula, has not alluded to the paucity of soup kitchens and to the fast that that industry no longer esis- ted. And now, in the very city which he represents, his own organ proposes, M ill neceRsary thing, as a sort of pen- dint to the National Poliny, the estab* iihment of a soup kitchen. Zmmlfmtloa. And I observe that one of the aldermen hag stated that there are at this moment in that city between 1,300 and 1,400 imraigrants out of employment. I am very glad to hear that, although tha sumstatfd of immigrants does not come up to the moderate expectations, a» they were called, indulged in last Ses- ion, it reaches so large an amount. We were told that we could have at least 150,000, and that, we were told, was an extremely n oderate estimate; wo are told to-day that the sum is 133,000. This is a very satisfactory approximation to the estimated amount I am not quite so cei'tain how these figfures will stand scrutiny. My diffi- culty is increased by the discrepancy of the statement to which I alluded a while ago, because the hon. member for Glengarry told us, that there were 34,000 of these who had come in from the United States. The hon. member for >'evi3 stated theie were 40,000. Where the 6,000 are [ do not exactly know. But, Sir, I pointed out last Session — and I will not enter into the figures to-day at all, as I wiil have oc .asion to deal further with the sub- ject later on — tl-at ttere must be something radically wrong with these returns or with the result deducible, fr m what information we can obtain. Whether you draw it from the census, or whether from the municipal returns, there is, to a large extent, a disulace- meut of the native by tho immigrant population, and the immigrant popu- lation, instead of being stationary, is to a large extent, transitory. I say it is impossible to draw any other conclusion from the statistics which are before us, than that with reference to the figures which have been given. I repeat, also, WuSt X II iTc sa d upon a .ofcuor occas- ion, that the yearly returns from the Province of Ontario, which we the only yearly returns to which I believe we ij, the estab' the aldermen this moment ► and 1,400 nent. I am Ithough the' loes not come ictaiions, aa in last Ses- an amount, lid have at e were told, lie estimate; the sum is satisfactory ated amount how these . My diffi- Bcrepaucy of [ alluded a n. member there were )me in from on. member ere 40,000. not exactly id out last ter into the ' will have th the sub- must he with these deducible, can obtain, the census, pal returns, a disiilace- immigrant frant popu- Dcary, is to I say it is • conclusion e before us, the figures, epeat, also,, 'aior occas- from the tf-e the only believe we 17 kftve acoeao, indicate that the ratio of | ernment claimed the confidence of th« mcreaseofthe population during the community, three great measureaof lour y.'ai-s which preceeded the k,t policy— the Confederation itself of four years, was much greater than in which he claimed sole credit for'tL« the last four years. And it la an Conservative party ; the Canadiait Mtraordinary circumstance, that Pacific Railway, which he did not then that hold, good not merely with tell us required our further assistance reference to the niral population ] thd National Policy. Let me aiTi •f Ontario, but with reference to , read. The hon. gentleman Kavs- the urban population also ; and that I * during these four years, in which it j " ^^^> gentlemen, this demonstration w has been said the prosperity of that *'?? an approbation of the great measure* Province was so greatly increased bv ' T ]■ V **«?" 8•• .K'«^ Government, the ratio of increase of the urban population is markedly lower than it was the preceding four years that were stated to be years of retrogression. Now, this object is treat- ed in the Speech in a rather perlunct- •ry manner. We are told, that there has been a large imaiigration, and we are toid further that improvements in reference to the facilities for inland transportation, will help us in the next year. But, Sir, I expected much more «pon this subject in the Speech, and I am sure that the hon. member for Lovis, who spoke so strongly on the importance of repatriation, must him ttdl f ri n ir A vrA ^ ^V\ nii r«l. ViaJU a. 3_ there was the Confederation Act, and since the National Policy, and the great Pacific Railway measure, and fiuullv, w. have adopted another measure scarcely les* important in re!.pect to the encouragement of immigration into this country." Adverting then to the history, accord- ing to his version, of the other three measures, he recurs to the iumiigratiou measure, and he says : v '1 ^^i' gentlemen, our mission would be but half accomplished if we forgot that we have on the other side of latitude 45 a great uumber of pur fellow-countrymen who would hke nothing better thwj to return home and sit down to the family table and naf. nrifh nc ..,.1 ... .> r jlf have felt^thWh he did not deem I '^^JrAt'^Zj^X^VVtl'^i It loyal to express it— a sentiment of living under the institutions uowmiS™ ibaappointmentm the fact that so little i >» t-'anada. (Loud cheers.) I need not bas been said upon this subject in the i ^y* gentlemen, that it is with the greatest •peech. ! satisfaction and pleasure that I am aWe to. ! announce to you this evening that the M^wMusa w wa ovMloa. | measures and energetic measures, to recal xm a 1 * 1 X . . I "^^ '"® """^ts of our own territorv alH Mr. Speaker of late years it is not our fellow-countrymen in the Ubited •nly the Speech firom the ""roue S***^^ who desire to return and live with that we learn of the intentions of Min- ?^' Jon^ffill understand, gentlemen, that ' ■ ' 1.' " banquet like this I must be excused if I do not give all the details of the mnh. islers as to the legislation of the Ses ■ion. The hon. Minister of Public Works, at a banquet that was given to him. in Montreal in October last, pointed out what was to be done in this particular regard. I propose to supplement (he information conveyed to Parliament in the Speech icom the Throne by a few passages from this ministerial pronounoement. The hon inember declared that there were three ^^ v^«««^ «o»v «uoio wore wiree i oy tne Mimater of Public Workaa* great questions upon which the Gov- | the fourth great claim to the coSn^ tenal measure that we propose to hme- down next Session. But in any case it » well that you should know that our com patnote in the United States, whether thev be of French origin or of any other origin they are not forgotten, and all that can b^ done to bring them back to this countrr we shall do most heartily." This was heralded in October ksfe by the Minister of Public Worka a» 18 of the country, snd he placed it npon • par vrith thoae three other claims to which I have referred: Confederation, the National Policy, and the Canadian Pacific Railway. He announced the formation of a scheme, the decision of the Government, the determination to bring down some scheme this Session to produce this end. Is this little peddling paragraph about cheap inland transportation the hon. gentleman's great scheme 1 Is it, or is it something else 1 And if it be something else — it it be something at all commensurate with the grandeur, not to say the gi«nd eloquence of the language with which the hon. gentleman announced the scheme to his friends at Montreal, why do we hear of cheap inland transportation and hear nothing at all of the hon. gentleman's great scheme of repatriation? Why is the less inserted, and the greater omitted ? Why, to an assemblage of Conserv- atives in Montreal, is a measure equal in importance to the National Policy, the Canadian Pacific Railway and the Confederation of the Provinces to be announced, and Parliament itself not to be told a word in regard to it in ^o Speech from the Throne ? Mr. Speaker, I said that there was distress in the city in which I live, and that it was partly due to special circum- stances, not due altoghter to those cir- fumstances to which I had alluded. It is due to immigration. I am not about to disease at this moment who is tHBsponsible for those circumstances, but I say that it' is lamentable that the number of people that are there should be there under the circumstances under which they are there; and I repeat what I have stated on former occasions, that while this country ought to devise and encourage a system of immigra- tion, while we oilght to see that those whom we want ai'e ;;mmmoQeil and welcomed here, yet distortion is to be used ; and the hon. gentleman's scheme of assisted passages, which he pro- ments I have seen do not appeso- to bear him out— is confined to agrioul* tural labor, is, so far as I can make- out, in its practical operation, extend- ed to the bringing into the country, by virtue of government funds, cer- tain classes cf people for whom we have no room, viz, : mechanics and artisans. I believe that a considerable^ number huve been brought into the country under the auspices, and partly by means of the assistance given by the Government, who had been better in the country from which they were brought. The hon. gentlemen who- have spoken, have referred to the pro- posed legislation of the Session. It is not very new to us, because we had those Bills before us last Session. I do not intend to Bay a word upon either of them that I said last year. Franohitt Sill. At the opening of the Session I point- ed out what I thought was the true view with regard to the Franchise Bill ; I will not repeat those words to- day. TTie Bill has been before the House, it has been before the country, but it has not yet received the advan- tage of explanation and vindication at the hands of its proposer, tuid I will reserve, for the present, any remarks I may have to make, until we hear from him, his vindication of the various provisions. This only I will say, that when I spoke last Session I did not and could not know that the measure would contain a provision so objectionable, so arbitrary, so unheard o^ as a provision which the hon. gen- tleman proposed then, and which I hope he does not propose to embodr in the BDl he is about to introduce, namely, that with respect to the ap- pointment of revising barristers. Faetory Bill. With regard to the J'aciory Bill, there is another reason for saying nothing just now, because the hon. gentldman states it is to be introduced with fur- ther amendments. I only express the ]» B'i to agriouI> i I can make- ation, extend- the country, it funds, oer- for whom we lechanics and a considerable^ i]ght into the ;e8, and partly nee given by »d been better ch they were Qtlcmen who- ed to the pro- Session. It is sause we had t Session. I » word upon i last year. Bsion I point- was the true le Franchise ose words to- n before the i the country, id the advan- nndication at er, and I will any remarks ontil we hear ktion of the is only I will ast Session I low that the . prorision so y, so unheard the hon. gen- and which I le to embody to introduce, t to the ap- rristers. y Bill, there is lug nothing n. gentldman !ed with fur- y express the Jope that whm itUiodaMd it wiU be fcimd to gire m trndnii u mesnm of prot^tlon to artiMM of wLatertt mm) -or wx' in this coutttiy as is given to artlsj^ie in Euglaqd. There i^ an amission or two in tbe Speech to which 1 must refer. Tb« fUhtrr BsUbittoa is mentioned, and the hon. gentlemen who hare moved and seconded the Reply have spoken with great and lively admiration on the suoocm pf ihat Exhibition, and of the triumphs which Canada there achieved. But we have some fishery interests which are to be promoted in other ways than by attending Exhibitions; there are some fishery clauses in a treaty, which clauses have been denounced, and whuch are to coice to an end at no remote period,- and I think some referepc* to that oironmstaaaee and to an iptentiw to tak« the , Bjouaa into the coafideqoe pf tU Govera^nent m *o the oo^rfle pTopoaed by then, and io udtoate what the Govemmept have done U» view of the approaching ter- mmation of the Fishery Causes of ihe Washington Treaty, wouW have been at lea^t as much consequence aa -the paragraph which has been inserted in the Speech. It is very well known that withm the last two or three years more particularly, the chief market for our fish has been the United States, and it has become of very pressing importance that we should know what the results are to be of the termina- tion of these Fishery Clauses. It is of importance that the treaty should not termmate without an earnest effort in advance to make proper arrangements «o that there shall be no gap, if it can *e avoided ; and I wiU add that it is />f great consequence also, and the Ttimes appear ""to be more propitious now t^ in former days, that in those negotiations due attention shall be paid to arri)mig at some mode of restoi^ing freei- traae rflratinnD *^n*^^^^^ us and tfoy neighbd)irs thim have" tot «ome time anbsisted. The hon. gantl«ixMn (^u: J. A. Mm- donaldJ last ya^r adopted the pli^i q| referring to the judgments of the Privy Oqqncil in the Hpeech from the Throve, and we had a Ministerial exposition at a judgment of the Privy Council. Bal I am sorry to observe that that good custom is not followed this yea*. Some years ago, the Government, of which I happened to be a membei;, finding a decision of the Court of Queen's Bench of Lower Canada i« favour of the Provincial right te escheats, decided to abide by that decision— wluch was in accordance with my own view of the re^ective rights of the Provinces and the Dominion— and acting accordingly we made no eflfprt at, that time to assert any right on the part of the Dominion, at a subsequent period that decision was concurred in and adopted by the Appelate Court of the Province of Ontario, an$ so BtrengtlieBecf, tte case came before the consideration of hom^ gentlemen oppo8it»>. They decided U adopt another coui^. Centralizing, ae I have often charged the hon. gentle- L"in with doing — centralizing where- ever he can, with his eye set always upon that one object of drawing to the general legislature and government, all the powers and functions which he can by «ny possibility draw to it, the hon. ^ntleman said, although the former Government adopterj this view.although the highest court of Ontario adopted It, although the highest court of Que- bec ado/.ted it, we will fight them and endeavour to secure for the Dominion the right to escheat. He took up the case, he instructed the council, he paid the fees, the case went to the Privy Council, and the hon. gentleman was beaten. The result has been to estab- lish the provincial right in (his regaid contrary to the viewe he entertained, and in aoeordaqce with the views and jud|ittient of two pnivineialr>^rte 5? t^iwi I .-oiTed. 1 ponkra..uate tho80 who are lovers of our Federal Coa stitution upon this vindication of ..c^ 'T H' > ..#•, of It. imporUnt elemwit^-not »h«t the ^w^on of eiichMtB Itnelf ia of muoh «wi«quMioe; hut h«cauM it w«m m I •Jjw, the ine«nH c t rindicating un« of Jh« mo8t important ^-lementu of our VoiMrtrtution. I congr»tUlat« tham on tM failure of the Hon. gentleman in «ttemptii,g to arrogate to his Adminis- tration and this Legislature, a power ^•hidi T,a« not its right. But when we T j^ .'»" important decision of the Judicial Committee of the Privy Cotin- <;U settling a question of this Icind tiimliy and conclusively-not settlinc ■t m a manner susceptible of discussion, ^ot settling It absolutely, why should «ot we be mformed that our Constitu- tion has been definitively settled and «Apouiuled m one important matter 1 «lie ChlJiJ*"' o'clock the Speaker left ; AFTkr RRCK88. 9bt Lienor Qugtlea. from «ie Speech, yet more inexcusable. Ijvuj regard to the language of the Speech last year, is the failure to refer t» Mie judgment of the Privy XJouncil «n the H.Mlge case, bearing upon the liquor question. And as* the First Mmtefeer adverted to the 8i)eoch in ;wjnch i«, made the statement with jefL^nce to the effect of the decision ' »a Russell t>. The Queen, I suppose I ! Tl ""'S.""* '"^Vvopviety myself^efer | to it The report of his 8i>eech which ' Itf fZfi '^'^y ^" the month of \ was wroiif^ and iaint out Jn^i !^^ Tl'^.'^'"« """O"" question, to be settled before the views exprm- ought to be adopted by Parliament : and in answer to the i^sition which i then took, not in detail, because I pointed out that the judgment had not then been circulated, the hon. gentle- man made some remarks. I had charir ed the Government with a centmliziiS tendency. I had charged them theo^^ as I charge them now, with a desire ti draw in here whatever they can ot power and jurisdiction, and of dimin- ishing so far as in them lies, the power aiid .unsdiction awatded by the Cons titntion to the Provinces. In answer to me the hon. gentleman said : ( ; i.al\''®5"^l*"''"'*? question in writinc was oKLliiATr"""^«fthe .."^'. ^"I'n.said that since Confederation a»t«f«f Justiceon constitutional questions. «nd miK, M„j{le oa,e had his jSme„u I i^nT*"*^ He believed thifS Ac^ i ^ uot worth the paper it was written oS. M« fioense inspectors to compel mea to * : ♦-!, ^t**s«*'Ject was not willingly under- taken by the present Qcvernment. Th/; I were quue .ati.iied that the law as it , obtams m the different Provinces should ' !ini?'u ^'■°'''°*=^ «''°"'<^' a^ *■" ^ the law > with the subject of shop, tavern and siloon , licensee. Neither the Government nor tU I Parliament of Canada, I take it, wished S ; interfere ,• and it waa only when the X^ sion which w*s Kiyen in June last on the Scott Act, li Dominion Act, and the sub- iu^ T'"":"^'' »P"» tliem, that they thought It their duty to bri ig it before Parhament. I never had any doubTthS when the question was brought before the courts, ,t would be deddeS that thVdif! ferent Provincial Legislatures had no «^ll; wnatever to deal with that subjecfeiwft 21 Mngth*ir Iicena«« able. Whencrer i>u((ht the miUtw I ot decided liiM on, 4nd bed c* rsH surpriMHl the Mswl long before country, aa he ^T. Mowat, tiMt npted to coutrol hold of erenf I dirision isoiut I that he woahl wa retnrniog te ret taken from the debftte on y to fioint out ioiiB que«tiooa iewB expr««. ' the Throne r Parliament ; ition ^»hioh 1 il( because I ■nent had not ) hon. gentle- I had charg- a centralizing I them then, th a desire t« they can of id of dimin- BS, the power by the Cous- in answer said : Iirigly under- imnnt. They he law as it vinces should [uite sati:ified tar as the law statutes, deal rn and saloon went nor the ! it, wished to len the deci- last on the Old the sub- I, that they u« it before y doubt that it before the that the dif. had nn naht bject^excejpt lov NTeaue purpoaes — t*a the pu;paM of im|iMiB|c taxatiun for ProTtneial or muttl- cifM purpoMM. I eiprewed the opbdon in Paniamant yean a(|o, and laat year I expreMed it at a puhUo meeting la Toronto «r its Tiemitj. J)ut while u>at opinion was fttrongly impremed upon ray mind I took no steps, nor did the Qoremment of which I was a member take any atepa for th<) purpose of interferiug with the leglMa- lion of the different Prc'joea, or forcing Duninion legialation on the country, or trying to centraliBe such powers in this Partiaraent. On the contrary, the only «entTalization on that snbjeet— the only time in which that question was in any way dealt with by the Dominion Parlia- ment — was when the late UoTemmeut -wna in power, and when they introduced the Scott Act." Then the hon. genblem/in pmoeeded to eay with reference to Buaeeli V0. The ^leen : " It is quite clear to every lawyer, and Any man who is not a lawyer, who reads that judgment, will see that the verr leaMma on which the Friry Conncil decio- <-d that this Parliament had the right to deol^wHh the Scott Act, are the reasons showing that the Provincial Legislature of Ontario had not a right to deal with that subject under the Crooks Act, except aa a matter of revenue for municioal or Pro> vindal purposes. The hon. gentleman says that we should have allowm the matter to stand over until it was finally decided. Sir, if there be any value in that dedsiun, Axul there U every value in it, because it is the law of the land, there is no check at this moment in the Province of Ontario a^'ainst the unlimited, unrestrained sale of intoxicating liquors. This is not a matter we can play with. It u not a matter of policy ; it is a matter of necessity. If we ^ish to prevent the unrestrained sale of intoxicating liquors we must legislate im- mediately ; for I take it, that any man in this city or in any other part of Ontario •can open his saloon and sell liquor>', and there is not a court in the world that can prevent his doing so." In answer to these viewi^, I. took leave to sj^y :-t- " He said that any lawyer, or any othei* man 'who is not a lawyer, who ehoae to ttt. that the unayo: .neolt 1 if'l Ui.' power wu left with t)ie Local Legialaturflc ui reatriet the number of lieeaaeai N««, I do not draw that eonolusion from tlM daoiaion in Russell v*. The Ijueen. In tke first place, that Judgment does not deal m the snghtMit degree with, does not tovoli in any way upon, thst vnry iMge part of Provincial rignta which is oompriaed in tlie subject of municipal inatitutions. The decision i« expreaaly stated to be u|)on the conaideration of whether the power to pasa the particular law which was before the Privy . 0>uncil, viz. : the Scott Act, wia vested in a lioeal Legislature in either of the tlien headings : thr heading of propertf and civil rigbta, the heading of shop, tavern and saloon licenses, or the needing of local and private matters. The Judges expresaly say thay^ these were the poinU whicn were raised befoi e them, and upon which thef judged. They do not say a word about municipAl institutions having been sug- gested or argued. Now, Sir, if hon. gen- tlemen sitting in this Parliament, if Mia- isters of the Crown, chosen from all the different ProvincesL do not know what are the local lawa touching the sale of Uquor, what poweM have been given to the dif> ferent municipal bodies in that regard ; if we requite to-day to take the fiiat step ia order to inform oar minds upon the mued question of law and fact as to what are tlie lawa and what mean the laws ; can we su]^>oae that the Judicial Committee of the Privy Council was inspired to know all about those monicipal institutions and lucal laws which were not even alluded to in the argument and the judgment ? Can it be serioiuly argued before a Canadian Parliament, that the single decision of four or five men— when the great ques- tion of municipal institutions was never even raised or discussed — has so anally concluded this quei>tion that it is no fur- ther arguable ? It is absurd to say so. I maintain, that in the absence of a decision in which the whole question of municipal institutions shall have been brought up expressly, in which that mas* of statutory learning which is required in order to know what the position of the municipal iustitutions of each Province was at the time of Confederation was not called for, in which the true constraotion of this phrase 'municipal institutions' was not fully debated and decided— no man, in the abeedOB of such a decision, can say that this queatioD, which, in the largeat of the Provinces, in the next krgeat of the Pro- vipceis and in two or tbraa more of thtnau was >n dealt wUh before Ooafederatloii, and 7;lmt WM done m the old t.^^rino^ ol J^"^**« Tip«>o u,e notion o^ SI grottnds, f wan aiMiwered from th« ' -"- -• • inS I .iud^^ "^ "> e^;,;;!;; .. '""^' »P«*^i«8 ^r the Got- ""•"""?•« "wtitutioM. ai ■Lower OwuMla ; «nd I wid "lent in Ru-.U «/'i^^rf°'' **"• •IT"- bruntofth7.^:L:^K^..r.n*»""t'«e eruQMut .- •«S * twJ' ^''•"'''iM, tl,i.Hou.ebeSI Mini.*:. j.T"i'^° "'*''«. *>«"• the PiM aoM r u • queetion ii^ how tu it ??"• ' ^.-^ «» not to tAe ibe. ftT^J: to any other oonclat R„* u •- have come to • dX!;* - * l*"^*^" Jua^eB have Sm* S^ SfereT^r." ' "on } court* hav* nJZ. *.<"*'*'«»* condu. *lecktte.no^»niouW .*""'• 8«»t'«'nM J"U of thi. land Cet S?55T«* tt!oA ^® ^,**^' "'«^' i"g to my point t*»«r«ia- ^ .• !P«*»oh the hon. ffentleiwl have coinu t« - ^Jh?"*- . ^"* Uwyers I „„ ., . . couS J*^* ^l«' «^''J«'>«« doe. tUi Kagro*f thVriXri ""^-^'^oS than the' fi^t th»rS °°.-- 8«?»'«n»*« week8bef„lrn,.5**.^.' P'ed'cted, three And I pointed out in detail what the St'u* olafkTow Jif ^ijT ^'"P'^* judgments were which bore out thS? N^ ^*'"* t^e^wre^^^ °P"r«» proposition. After doing .0 I°s^ d^*^' J-Jj/fterwali,^^^^^ Province,, shRTweTaTaf bra't."'? tl°7v\f'*^°"8'^ ^« ^oted against that oaJpJweM i^ t J*""*** «^ ^'>'»«^ wlTtt'l* M^'' *'*^' '''>e° the Bill in qneationf^,!.?^ "•?««* *'^ -t ' -" **,*»« Wftd the third time w« Oon«titution." ^ " *"* wwoiag of aar | , ■ '^»™a wading, and uuert thert i "^*«ftoTincidLegidature«haTe«&jo« ' I M Kiting lhai«db. notion ot Mw te thw l«gia|i^ thti and otiMr red flrt>m eh« tn hod. m««. for the Got. Boom to oo«. wtion mny Im ilaturea or br :ceU«noT mj^ lation tbftt thf deol with th« s HouM betog eing Mtisfitl n. the Fint )k«d only t« eral Proria- })aceJ on th« tiafjr the »»r. be GoTOBi). le moMQvs, gentlea e doM ihk bGtltUtioltii gentlemui cted, three given, thAt jegislature; no control n hift great lis opinion ause a few the Privjr i against tion, and ) be cora- the Bill time, we to whioh >po8ition loved by r. Fleni. rdre»(|. a words ire tine* ' I Confederation exerdMd Legislative pow- •M In the regulation of theiaaueof licenHea for the Mile ut iiiluxicating liniiom, and the koan and certain other incidents of the •ale. "That the Appeal Ooiirta of Ontario and Quebec have each tvcided in favour of 'the exercise by i\u- Proviuee of the Dominion, r>' tic juti' 1'r ton, and this Appeal Court ) «• f atber determined that the Judgmei » of the Privy Council in Kussrl). and the <^ueen does not decide tkat the Provincial liegiHlatnree have not tW« jrri Hliction. ' That the questions involved are now inder the consideration of the Supreme Court of Canada, and will ehortlv be brought undur the consideration of the Privy Council. "lliat the Parliament of Canada should not asnume juriiKliction as proposed by the said Bill, untU the question hu been settled by the Court of last resort." That motion aluo was defeated. Xow, Mr. Speaker, let U8 understand clearly what determination we are called upon to take, for what reason and upon what plea ; we were called upon to interfere with the regulation of licens- ing in the various provinces upon the plea — not that it was a politic thing for this Parliament to assume that jurisdiction, not that it was a measure of policy or expediency at all, but upon the plea of necessity- that in order to prevent the un-estrained sale, by any- body who pleased, it was necessary for ibis Parliament to intervene ; not npon ar(jument, for argument was not r^ff rit'} to in this House, to prove the :oai,txMtj, but upon the plea that the necessity was proved and established 1»y the judgment of the Court of last resort, which the hon. gentleman said Was the final law of the land — upon the plea that the loioal laws weie not worth the paper they were written upon — that they were usurpations; and in order to prevent these dreadful •Vila over which the hon, gentleman wept, residtittg froin the unrestrained aale of intoxicating fiquora all over the •ountry, he said we must act at once, and act decidedly, else the ebuntry would go io ruin over the quantity of Sqtior sold by everybody attd dttuik by everybody elM. Well, air, w#- pointed out that th hon. gentlenian'a interpretation of tlio judgment in Rns- sell v». ITie Queen, was ei-roneous ; that it di*l not establish the propoNi tion he laid down ; that it could not eatabllah it because an essential ele- ment to a oonclusive decision upon that subject was that the question of Provincial powers in municipal institu- tions should have been brought under the consideration of the court and adjudged upon by the court, whereaa that question was not considered or adjudgf d upon at all. However, the hon. gentleman who answered for the Government said that thoy took the opinion of the First Minister, that they were willing to take his opinion on trust, and that as he wished it, rot merely as an exix)under of the law, but as a prophet, it was i>articularly unfortunate that I should have chal- lenged hia judgment. Hot time brings about its revengea There were allu- sions in the course of the debate, and in thia motion, to cases th^n pending — to a case before the Supreme Odurt of Can da at that time standing for judgment, in which ju lament haa since been delivered, and in which three of the judges, those who ex- pressed an opinion on the question of jurisdiction, expressed the oi>inion that the Local Legislatures have regulative jurisdiction. There was a '»* poweSlSred on It by the Imperial Act of 1667 an^ that in this respect there is no conflict t wuh the powers of the Dominion Pa£- was that It was the case according to his opinion, and that it was judged br Russell ^. The Queen that a M I ^.?«'ature could not pass any law to decide who should have a license, or how many licenses should be issued, or th.v HT ^ ^°»'^' Ac— that aU they could do was to impose a license fee for provincial and munidpal nur- poses a„d that any body who ^hos"? to pay that fee, so far as the Local Go- ISr* ""r «^»<=erned, must' be entitled to a license and could not be restricted. That was ^.he hon. gentle- in^n 8 proposition. I say that pSposi- tion IS condemned conclusively by the have said before, the hon. gentleman ia acentraluer. I dare say he may ask 26 ure in the Province though not identical" he powers then be- l institutions under & laws passed by the consider that the- be conferred by the >n properly under- reguJations in the uniclpal reKulation>* ra«ter for the good i», &c., licensed for retaiJ, and such a* ;ive m the muuici- ic decency, and re- »d disorderly and ich, they cannot be he general reguJa- umerce which be- Parliament, and do provisions of the t which does not en locally adopted, egislation in the Sections 4 an«? .■», s heads Noi. H^ml of British North therefore of opin- ection" 4 and, 5 of be Legislature of powers conferred Act of 1867, ande re 18 no conflict^ >ominion Pa.lia- ttlenian aveired ise accorcling to i was judged by a that a tiocai »as8 any law to '^e a license, or Id be issued, or , «fec.— that all npose a license nunidpal ^pur-