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McLelan, I: MINISTER OF FINANCE. ,v»t«i* '**li.^;: ■'■ 'flST' - • and the Territories, the ohstaoles to interooarse were greater even than the increased distances, and for all oom.nTinioation and intercourse we were depenaent upon foreign rail- ways, foreign hotels, and foreign conveyances. For fifteen or sixteen years we have been paying tribute to a foreign but a friendly power for all intercourse westward. To-day the iron rail, leaving the waters of the Atlantic, goes west- ward and westward until it touches the waters of the Pacific Ocean, and gives us an unbroken highway from the extreme east to the extreme west ; so that we shall from this time be able to pass to and fro thereon without being remind- ed, as hitherto, by a foreign flag and a foreign Custom house that we were dependent upon a foreign people for our inter- course. The year 1886 will be in all future Canadian his- tory a red-letter year, as being the year in which we obtained our national, our geographical independence ; the year in which a highway to pass for pleasure or profit, in peace or in trouble, was opened to us throughout our whole territory. Something more than thirty years ago, the public men of Nova Ssotia were busy discussing the pro- priety of commencing the construction of what is now a portion of the Intercolonial Bail way, and a link in this great highway, and the men who were then discussing it, the men who were most earnest in the matter, said to ub that the importance and value of this road would grow in the public estimation of the people of Nova Scotia, and in the estimation of the people of all the Provinces, that it would be commenced and would go westward until it would eventually reach the waters of the Pacific Ocean ; and we were told that many of those who were taking part in the discussion would live to hear the scream of the locomotive in the Bocky Mountains. Sir, that pre- diction has been realised, and, if all, or if even in part the other predictions respecting the great value and importanoe of this work, in binding together the several Provinces, in atrengthening and maintaining British interests upon this continent and developing the great resoarces of this coun- try, and drawing to as a share of the trade of the millions of people who swarm the islands and the countries lying beyond our western terminus, are realised, then the men who grappled with and carried out this mighty undertaking will be regarded as benefactors of this country and wiU receive the respect and gratitude of all true Ganadianr. And, Mr. Speaker, I may add that our right hon. leader, who has labored so diligently and so successfully in carry- ing forward this work, who, while not unmindful of the interests of the older Provinces, never lost sight of this undertaking, although often assailed by the opposition of gentlemen opposite, and sometimes met by the fears And doubts of his friends, yet never lost sight of this work, but labored faithfully, zealously and intelligently to com- plete it, and bind together and make one people all who dwell beneath the British flag on this continent, and strengthen and maintain British institutions — if those pre- dictions shall be in any part realised, he will have the highest reward that can come to the greatest statesman, the satisfaction of knowing, of believing, of seeing, that he has wrought a great advantage for his country. Sir, I believe that those predictions will be largely realised, and that a great future lies before us. Bat I must not detain the House to speak of that future. I was contrasting for a moment, in passing, the past with the present, the condition of things in 1867 with the condition in 1886. And, Sir, it is notalone, in the increased area, nor in the improved means of inter-com- munication which we now have, but the change is most marked in the great improvement in the condition of the vast body of the people. Measured by every standard that tests the condition of a people, we see that they have made greai progress, by the aocumalations in our savings And our commercial banks, by the traffic npon our railways <9r ^ and upon oar w iters, by the growth of oar towns and cities, by the private and public bnildings s'hioh adorn them, by the comfortable homes of oar raral population, by churches and schools, and all the varied avocations in which men are engaged, and which mark the growth, the progress, the wealth and happiness of the people. Sir, in speaking thas, and expressing gratifi') I charge for 186*7, and it will be rem< mbered that we had to bear the charge in 1867 when we were only four Provinces with a popalation of 3,331,000. Now, when we embrace the whole Dominion, from the Atlantic to the Pacific, and have made largo ezpen- ditures to develop this coantry, it is easily seen that, without this, we could not have accomplished what we did. It required labor and money to dig canals and improve the navigation of rivers and lakes ; it required large ezpen* diture of money to build wharves and piers, to erect harbors of refuge along our coasts, and to dot our coasts and lakes with lighthouses to facilitate navigation and connect us with the commerce of the world. It required money to construct railways. Without it we could not have cut down hills, filled up valleys, and spanned rivers ; we could not have laid the iron rail from city to city, from town to town, as we have done all over the Dominion. We could not have sent the iron horse over the broad prairie nor cut a pathway through the Rockies, for him to take the traveller down through the plea- sant valleys and into the beautiful clime of British Columbia, if the hon, member for West Durham (Mr. Blake) will allow me to apply the term beautiful to that Province. We have done all this ; but to do it all, it was necessary that there should be large expenditure and that our indebtedness should be increased, and the result is that we paid, to the 30th June, 1885, $3,994,428 more than we paid in 1867. But I want the House to bear in mind that the population in 1867 was 3,331,000, that the total interest paid in 1867 was $4,660,- 661, after deducting the interest received on assets. That makes a per capita charge on the population of $1.39^^ per head. In 1885, we paid $7,665,089 on a popu- lation which I should be disposed to estimate at 4,800,000, but I presume the hon. gentleman will question that, and I shall take off 100,000 to meet his views, in order that there may be no discussion upon 2 ^:- 18 this point; and on a population of 4,700,000 we paid $1.63 in 1886, making a difference in interest paid in 1885 and that paid in 1867 of only 23 and one-tenth oents per head of the population ; and I am sure, when we look at ail that has been undertaken and acoomplished, and when we look at the condition of the people, those of us who remem- ber 1867 and those who know anything of the condition of the people at present will say that they are better able to pay a taxation for interest of 81.63 per head now than they were to pay $1.39 in 1867. I am disposed to pursue this a little further. A speech was delivered by the hon. the leader of the Opposition, a celebrated speooh, a speech which attract- ed the attention of the whole Dominion, and : deed, the attention of other countries ; a speech which may be con- sidered so important that the greatest care should have been taken in its utterances. The hon. gentleman on that occa- sion stated that we had increased the burden of interest and of indebtedness beyond the wildest conjecture of 18^8 or 1882. I think it necessary to pursue this matter a, little further, and see whether we are amenable t'j tbd charge of having increased the burden of interest since 1878. When the hon. gentleman assumed office in 1873, the charge for inteiest in the financial year 1873-74 was $6,161,577. When they left office, five years after, the charge for interest in the year 1878-70 was $6,687,794, an increase of $1,526,217 ; or an average increase per year of $305,244. In the finan- cial year ending June 30th, 1885, the net charge for interest was $7,666,089. Take from this the interest upon the publio debt in the year when they left office, $6,687,794, and we have $967,295 as the net increase in seven years, or an average increase of $127,182 a year as against $306,244 during the period that those hon. gentlemen held office. I do not think that, if the hob. member for West Durham (Mr. Blake) had looked at the figures and had seen that when his friends were in office and he himself was aiding them. fr- i : ^ 19 the rate of inorease had heen 238 per cent, faster than it wat Arom 1878 to 1885, he would not have, upon so important an ocoasion, annoanoed to the world that wd were inoreaaing the burdens of interest beyond the wildest imagination of 18*78. Bat let me treat this in another way. In 18*78*79 the interest per head of the population, taking it at 4,126,366, waa $1.66^ ; in 1885, on a population of 4,700,000, it is $1.63 per head of the population, or actually 3} centb per head less in 1885 than it was in 1878, when those hon. gentlemen left office. And yet the leader of the Opposition announces that we are increasing the burdens of the population beyond the wildest imagination of any man in 1878. I do not say the amount of our indebtedness is less than it was in 1878*79. Oh, no. Bat I say that the credit of the country has been so improTcd by wise legislation, by wise adminis- tration and by the systematic and proper expenditure of the money that has been borrowed, that we have reduced the rates at which capital has been procured. Capital demands from the borrower that the security shall be good, capital demands that the purposes to which the money is to be applied shall tend to the improvement of tha security, and that the person seeking the loan shall have, under ordinary circumstances, the wisdom properly to apply that money to improve the security. When a country seeks to borrow, capital exacts the same conditions as from a private borrower. The hon. member for South Huron (Sir Richard Gartwright) seemed to be fully im- pressed with this on the first occasion on which he went to England to borrow money. He then issued a prospeotuSf which has become, I may say, famous in Canadian history. He described the condition of the country as he received it from the hands of his predecessors. He enumerated in that prospectus the successive, the con- tinuous surpluses that had been given each year from 1867 downwards. He enumerated the various public works 2i which had been undertakoD, which had boon cariied for- ward, and which would yield a large revenae to the ooantry, and would enable the country to pay the money that might bd borrowed for the completion of those works. The hon. gentleman knew the value of having the country well represented, and he knew that it was well to make a favor- able impression upon the minds of capitalists, and to prepare them for accepting the lowest possible rates for their money. Bat the hon. gentleman, Sir, contrary to the usual practice, contrary to what I would have expected on that occasion, did not test the market, he did not try how far the advantages that ho set forth in his prospectus would affect the money market, and would improve the rate at which he might receive it. He praised the country, spoke of the condition of the country as being prosperous, and of the purposes xor which the money would bo applied as IjDnding to increase the revenue and make the country better able to pay the indebtedness upon maturity. But, as I said, he did not test the effect which that might have had upon the public mind, but named himself the price at which he would be willing to dispose of the bonds, fixing the price at the very lowest possible rate. Now, Mr, Speaker, what I meant to f)ay was that we have been able so to improve the condition of the country and our credit abroad, that we have exchanged bonds bearininion— in respect to that item. We fiaw it announced last autumn that a convention of the n^ Liberal party was to be held in the city o( Toronto. That convention was held, and it was spoken of by the oigan of the party as being a large and representative convention. I tarn to the Globe of the 16th of September, and I find an editorial headed as follows : — " Young LibenAa— Getting fairly down to work— The work of the day — Resolationa adopted by the conrention— Hon. R. Blake elected Hon. ProBident." That article said : " The moat sangnine hopea of the young men who originated the idea of a Oonrention of Tonng Liberals from all parts of the Province, and who hare for the paat few months been working to promote the movement throughout the country, were far exceeded yesterday morn- ing aa groups after groups of membera presented themselves at the doors of Shaftesbury Hall to attend the convention. Th3 observer could not fail to notice the alert, active bearing of the delegates, and their general look of keen intelligence. It may be said without offen- liveness toward any other gathering that there never before has been in Toronto or probably in the Dominion an assemblage pervaded by a more thoroughly Canadian air. While there was plenty of life, there was little boisterousness, and while the utmost good humour and courtesy prevailed, tcere was manifested a most business-like intoler- ance of anything that seemed to tend toward sectionalism, hobby- riding, or the indulgence in fads of any kind. All appeared to fully realise that they were not here for mere amusement or child's play, but to discuss soberly and conacientioasly the political situation of the country." Now, with saoh an annoanoement as this, and with the de- scription of sach an assemblage as this, I think it bat right that its doings should receive some consideration at the hands of the country and of myself on this occasion. On the following day the same paper said : " The young Liberal Oonrention resumed session at 9 o'clock this morning, the newly elected president, Mr. A. F. Mclntyre, in the chair. The delegates were punctual and the attendance larger than the pro- vioas day.' ' In the Globe of the proced'ig day, the names of a large number of gentlemen are given. I do not know many of tnem, but I happen to know the president, Mr. Molntyre, and I am sure he is not engaged in anything like hobby- 28 riding or fads of any kind, and I take it this means serions business. I find the Globe of the following day announcing as follows: — " The Liberal Coavention, which dosed its meetings on Wednesday, was all which its most sangaine friends could have wished it to be. The attendance was large and thoroaghl j representative ; the speaking exceptioaaliy good ; the orderliness and bosiness tact di played such as the most fastidious could not object to ; while the moat absolute freedom of discussion was maintained thi-onghout. Motions were only voted down after those in their favor had been fully heard. However much any of the speakers might be out of accord with the general sentiment and feeling of the meeting, they still received patient and courteous attention to the close, and while their arguments and utterances were treated with perfect frankness, there was no attempt made either unduly to weaken the force of these or to belittle their importance. *' Nothing was more conspicuous throughout than the uniform good temper displayed, as well as the readiness with which the paints were taken, and the frank cordiality with which, as far as possible, concessions were acquiesced io,and a full yetmoderate and soundly Liberal programme agreed upon. There was little or no crankiness ; no settled determination to ride hobbies ; "— Tou see that on the first day it was announced that no hobbies were to bo ridden, and that at the close it was stated that no hobbies had been ridden. " no persistent efifort to carry at all haz&rds any particular or personal fad ; no resolution to lead ; no apparent desire, even, to shine. It was a business meeting, and was accordingly conducted in a practical, bniiness-like style. " To say that it was ' captured 'by any clique or coterie whatever would be absurdly out of accordance with facts. The convention would neither stultify nor compromise Itself by going further than the majority of its members approved of, or by stopping short of what that majority believed to be indispensable. If once or twice the tail sought to shake the dog, the dog simply refused to be shaken, and the tail then accepted the situation and subsided, if it did not perhaps altogether acquiesce." Now, I find that the Eentiments of that convention were participated in by the Club National of Montreal, which sent this : « The Olab National, Hontteal, sends greetings, and wishes success to your movement. Let your platform be a broad one. Our aspirations are alike. They may to-day alarm many because of th)ir boldness, but ideas ripen as quick as man, and with pluck and energy we may live to harvest what "ve sow in the political field.— R. Danduband, President.'* and mj grateful thanks for the honor done me by my election to the honorary , presidency of their great convention, a gathering from which I an- ticipate the best results." The hon. leader of the Opposition there accepts the presi- dency of the organisation foiiJied at that convention, and accepts the platform adopted. I was under the impres- sion. Sir, that there was but one opinion upon the matter to which I have referred among the whole people of this Dominion. I find that one of the resolutions — and I only deal with the one bearing on the matter I have now in hand — reads thus: "Resolved, That this convention disapproves of the payment of aab- flidies out of the Dominicn Treasury to the Provincial LegiBlatares, believing that tiie system of subsidies leads to extravagance on the part 30 * of the ProTincial Legislatares, because they have the power of expend- ing money without the responsibility of imposing taxes ; also, the sub- sidy system as carried out in Oanada causes the bnik of the revenues to be collected by indirect taxation, whereas direct taxation is more just and more economical. Therefore, resolved that this convention approves of such a change in the British North America Act as shall provide that each Province of the Confederation shall oallect as well as expmd its own revenues." Now, this is so important a proposition that I thought it desirable \o call the attention of the Hoose to the matter at this stage of my review of the accounts. We are now pay- ing out to the several Provinces about $4,000,000. The platform adopted by the Opposition gentlemen, and accepted by the leader of the Opposition, declares that it is unwise and unjust that we should continue the payment of these subsidies, and that the Provincial Legislatures should be taught to resort to direct taxation in order to raise the revenues they require, so that they may be taught economy in their expenditure. Now, I have no doubt this will greatly relieve hon. gentlemen opposite, should they 'fjver come to power. Thei hon. member for South Huron (Sir Bichard Oartwright) would fiud it a considerable relief to his estimates if he could have that plank of the Opposition platform adopted by the country, and could strike out of his estimates the $1,000,000 that we now pro- vide for subsidies. Bat until that time comes, and until the hon. gentleman can persuade the country to accept that doctrine and resort to direct taxation for local purposes, we shall have to provide in our Estimates for Provincial sub- sidies nnder the British North America Act, and, I think, for some considerable time we shall bdcJled upon to do so. Therefore, Mr. Speaker, I have provided in the Estimates for 1886-87 for the payments of the subsidies to the Local Legis- latures. Ck)ming then to the expenditures for public works charged to revenue, they amount to $2,302,362, for which, as I am sure hon. gentlemen who have seen the works constructed by that department, know we have valuo ^ 31 .10 and they were called for by the wants of the coantry. The post office has been for some years increasing the charges npon our revenue. In the opening up of the North- West, it was necessary that we should give postal aocommc- ' dation to large districts from which there was very little return ; but, notwithstanding we were called upon to make extraordinary expenses in furnishing additional aocommoda* tion, the receipts from the Post Office Department compare most favorably with those of preceding years. In 1884, there was a falling off of the revenue which has been made up by the returns of 1885 ; and so far in the present year, there seems to be a steady increase. I may be permitted, in this connection, to give a few statistics by way of com- parison :— In 1878. we had 5,378 poet offices ; in 1885 we had 7,084, an increase of 1,706. The miles of post route in 1873 were 38,730, and, in 1885, 50,461 ; or an increase of 11,731. The letters sent in 1878 amounted to 44,000,000, and in 1885, 68,400,000, showing an increase of 24,400,000. The money order post offices in 18V8 numbered 769, and in 1885, 885, an inorease of 116. The amount of money orders issued in 1878 was $7,130,895, and in 1885,610,384,210, an increase of $3,253,315. There has been an inorease in the letters tent of 24,400,000, or 55*45 per oent. between 1878 and 18d5 ; and I find, on comparing our returns with the postal returns of older countries — with those of Great Britain, for instance— that our percentage of increase has been very much larger than the per- centage in that country; as in 1878, the letters des- patched in Great Britain were 1,058,000,000, and in 1885, 1,360,000,000, showing an increase of 302,000,000, or 28-64 per cent, against our increase of 55*45 per oent. ; so that we have an increase nearly double that of Great Britain. The increase of the receipts and expenditures may be compared also. Our receipts in 1878 amounted to $ 1,20 7,790, and in 1885 to $1,841,372, an increase of $633,582, or 5246 per oent> Our .32 , . expenditure in 18*78 amoanted to $1,724,938, and in 1886 to $2,488,315, an increase of $763,377, or 41-25 per cent Thus oar receipts from the Post Office since 1878 increased 62 per cent., while our expenditure increased only 4i'25 per cent. Between 1874 and 1878 a simi'ar comparison might be made. The receipts from 1874 to 1878 increased bat 5' 94 per cent., while the expenses increased 24*34 per cent., BO that, althoagh between 1874 and 1878 the expenditure showed a much greater percentage of increase than the receipts, the increase of receipts between 1878 and 1886 is much larger than, the increase of ex* penditure. The increase of traffic on our railways and canals has also called for a very large expenditure, which tends to swell the volume of the estimates, without at all affecting the taxation of the country. I may be permitted to refer to the increase in the traffic at another time, but I say the large expenditure which we are called upon to make in the working of the Intercolonial Railway and of our canals, has tended to increase the volume of expenditure shown in the Fablio Accounts, without at all increasing the taxation of tbe country. Yet it has been attempted to convey the impression that all this increase of volume in the accounts is an increase in taxation. I have shown that the receipts from sources which are not taxation, have, since 1878, very largely increased, running from $4,000,000 np to between $7,000,000 and $8,000,000. If we were to-morrow to take possession of all the telegraph lines in the country, and were to send messages at less rates than are now charged, the volume of our accounts would be largely increased, while there would, perhaps, be a gain to the people and consequently less taxation, owing to the reduced rates which we might charge for the messages. In this case as in the others, the volame of public exptmditure might be largely increased, and it might with the same propriety bo 33 |i tnisreproBentod to show there w&s a largo increase in the taxation of the country, although in reality there was a decrease. A great deal has been said on the hustings with reference to our position in 1867, and I have been reminded of the charge which has baon so persistently and continu- ously made against us in connection with the increase of our expenditure from 1867 to 1885. It may not ba unprofit- iible, then, to go back to 1867 and make some comparisons •between the expenditure in that year of over S 13,000,000 and the expenditure of 1885; so that we may see wherein there has been an increase, and in what way, if any, we are amenable to the charge of having unduly increased the expenditure. I have pointed out that the receipts from Railways, public works and post offices, and other sources, none of which are taxation any more than would be the expenditure on telegraph lines, have nearly doubled since 1878, whilst from 1867 they have very nearly quadrupled. In 1867, the receipts were $1,987,240, and in 1885 they were $7,869,809, showing an increase in receipts of $5,818,842, and the expenses have correspondingly increased. Now, the increases for working these services,! think,should be fairly taken out of the accounts before we institute the comparison. I have shown that the hon. gentlemen opposite are more chargeable with having increased the public indebtedness of the country than gentlemen on this eide, and, at all events, if they are not, that we have ^ood property and good value for the 'Expenditure that we have made, and that therefore the charge for interest might also be eliminated from the accounts before we proceed with 4he comparison. Then there is the increase of subsidies to the Local Governments. We have brought in new Pro- vinces, we have increased the subsidies that we have paid, and I do not think that that increase, at least, should be chargeable against us. We have added new territory, and we have bean compelled to incur new expenses which 84 M were not Id the aooouots of 18C7 — I mean expenses in the North- West. ' Now, if we take from the aoooants all such expenses as I have referred to, we come down to the increases in the ordinary workings of Government, of whioh the hon. gentlemen have a right to complain if we have unduly increased them since 1867. First, dealing with the interest in its gross charge, and excluding the receipts, there is an increase in 1885 over 1867-8, without manage- ment, of $4,917,914. On construction and repairs of publio works there is an increase of $2,423,300, and, as I have said, we have visible property for this, so that this may come cat. The increase on the working expenses of railways and canals, which is not a charge to taxation, is $3,840,745. The increase for the post office is $1,871,513; subsidies to the new Provinces, $1,205,360; the increase in the sinking fund, and discounts and exchange, is $1,207,933 ; on immi- gration and quarantine, and on services in connection with the North- West Territory, $717,836. The protection and the cultivation of fisheries and the p.iymont of the fishing bounty is a new service, which, I assume, will be approved very generally by the House, and in that the increase is $250,000. Then there are those services which are entirely new, the mounted police. Dominion lands, Indians in the North- West and in British Calumbia, and the Government of the North-West, amounting to $2,331,929. Then there is a charge of $1,791,851 for the trouble in the North- West, in the accounts of 1885. Taking out these special items, of increases, from the accounts of 1885, we have left civil government, legislation, administration of justice, the maintenance of the penitentiaries, the collection of onstoms from Halifax to Victoria, the collection of excise, the militia and defence of the country, th» maintenance of lights, buoys and fog alarms, marine hospitals, distressed seamen, steamboat and insurance inspection! pensions, management of the publio debt^ 86 and misoellaneoas services in regard to all of which we might make a comparison with 1867 ; and in making this comparison it mnet he home in mind that we are govern- ing, we are legislating for, and administering justice to a country ten times larger than it was in 1867, that we are collecting twenty millions of revenue fVom Onstoms instead of eight, and six millions from Excise instead of three, and that all the other services are proportionately increased ; and yet the figares show only an increase in the ezpondi* ture of a little over two millions of dollars in eighteen years. If yon take the total expenditure of 18B4-85, 935,037,060,aDd deduct the increase upon the special service^ which I have named as proper to be taken out, $19,469,658, you have left $15,567,402; from which take the expendi- ture of 1867-68, 813,486,092, and you have for eighteen years an increase upon all the services I have named of only $2,081,310. And looking at the changes in the country, looking at the increased area and the inoreased hnsiness we have been doing, there is not a country in the world that has shown so little increase in all these matters connected with the civil government of the country as the Dominion of Canada has during that period. If we go to the United States we find that the expenditure in 1867 was $51,110,221 — that is exolnsive of army, navy, pensions, war, Indians and the interest. In 1885 it had risen to $87,494,000, an increase of $36,000,000, without any in- crease of area at all such as we have. So, as I said, there is not, perhaps, in the history of the world, an instance in which a country has extended her operations so largely, has increased the responsibilities and duties of government so much, and has not increased her expenses more than the Dominion of Canada. I might take np any one of the ser- vices to which I have referred, and show what an enormone increase there has been in all the departments* I might be permitted, perhaps, to detain the House for a few moments, in order to refer to the ligbthonso and coast eervice, and to show the great increase there has been io that ser/ice, as an illastration of the increase in every department of the public service. In 1867 the member for Northumberland (Mr. Mitchell) took charge of the lighthouse and buoy service of the Dominion, and of the lights existing at Confede- ration. The number then was 227 lighthouses, and two fog alarms, and the ex^K^nditure was $174,982. The hon. gentleman saw the importance of th?^t service, and with that vigor of intellect and that energy for which he is so distin- guished in this House or out of it, gave that energy and that vigor of intellect to the improvement of that service, and I am sure it could not have been better employed than in improving and facilitating the navigation of the country and in providing means to render life and property more secure than it was in 1867, when he took charge of it. When he went out in i. 873-74, he had increased the lights to 384, and the fog alarms to eighteen — an increase of 157 lights in the comparatively short time during vhioh he adfiiniblered the department. The hon. gentleman had successors in Sir Albert Smith and the Hon. Mr. Pope, and, when they lefi. office, the number of lights had increased to 653. When I took charge of the department, I supposed, looking at the large increase, that there would be no additions required, but the new services, the opening up of the country, and the increased shipping to all parts of it, called for additions even to the large number that had been already made. When I left that department, a few months ago, I left it with the number increased to 617, and with an expenditure of $530,446. That expenditure. Sir, covered the construction of the light- houses of the year, it covered the maintenance of the 617 lighthoises that wore then in operation, all the buoy service, with the addition of the coaot service, and the maintenance t' ^ cf the different fog alarms that had largely been increased throughout the country. I only refer to this to illustrate the extent of the service that we are called upon to deal with in the government of the country. Notwithstanding, that the work has so largely increased, I have shown to the House that in the eighteen years, comparing 1867 with 1885, there has been an increase of slightly over two mil- lion dollars, which is unequalled, I say, in the history of any other country in the world ; and I anticipate that in the eighteen years to come we shall not bo called upon to make even so large an increase as this to the ordinary expenditure of govornment, because we shall not be increas- ing our area and adding new Provinces so largely as we Lave done. - * It being six o'cLick, the Speaker left the Chair. After Recess. Mr. McLELAN. When the House rose at six o'cloek, I was speaking of the expenditure as E»hown in the accounts of 1886. Without goiug back to that subject let me dwell for a moment nponSthe accounts of the current year 1885-86. The current year has been so far characterized by several disturbing elements to trade and revenue^ We had in ii > early, part of the year the North- West trouble, we had the Affects of the anticipation of the revenue that had been made through Excise, we hadthedisturbanceof trade which occurred in the city of Montreal, owing to the amall poz epidemic which distui bed, to a large extent, and for a con- siderable time, the trade of that great commercial metro- polis. All these things have had their effect on the trade of the country, and upon the revenues that were derived. At the present time. Sir, we stand fairly well. Taking out North-West expenditure and putting that aside, we had up to the 10th March, when the return was made, a total expenditure of $25,938,481. Of this there has been charged 38 to the war expenses $2,502,936, leaving as the ordinary expenditure $23,455,C45. The receipts from all sonrces up to the same date have been $24,030,060, or a gnrplos at the present time, or up to the 20th of March, of $6*74,51 6* That is veiy well as far as it goes, but we have vwy con- siderable expenditure to meet during the year in the shape of interest and other items, w-hich I fear will not leave the balance at the end of the year at all so favorable. Looking at the expenditure of 1885-86, it will be seen that the de- tailed amounts of supply during the last Session on account of the consolidated fund, amount to $35,2*75,000. Taking out of this sum $2,300,000 estimated as the expenditure in connection with the North-West rebellion, the ordinary ex- penditure as estimated was $32,9*75,000. This will have to be supplemented by an addition for the interest on the public debt of $*730,000. The amount included in the esti- mate of 1885-86 for new loans and other indebtedness was $2,250,000, of which the amount for new loans was placed at $1,880,000, representing a capital of $4*7,000,000, from which deduct the amount of the 5 per cent, consolidated loan of $31,3*71,000, converted to 4, leaving $15,627,000 for new loans. After the 5 per cent, loan was converted into a 4 per cent, there was borrowed $19,446,666, ard there was a temporary loan of $5,835,000, and an increase in the deposits in the savings bank of $4,442,203. It will be seen that there was thus borrowed the sum of $14,125,000 more than we covered by the estimate. The interest on this amount will be $565,000, and there is required in order to cover the subsidies given to the Province of Quebec $119,000, which was not estimated for, and $471,000 the interest on the 5 per cent, stock which was converted into 4 per cent., for which only one-half the interest was oalcu- cated by Sir Leonard when he made his estimates. There was also a further increase in the sinking fund which was not estimated for, being a year's payment on the reduced 39 loan. Those who have studied carefully the Public Accounts of that year will find that Sir Leonard Til ley did not take an estimate for sinking fund for the loan which he convert- ed from 6 per cent, into 4 per cent, I suppose his intention being to issue a new loan and issue it without a sinking fhnd. It was converted on the same conditions as regards sinking fund, and we shall have to provide for that $470,- 000. The other ordinary expenditures on account of public works, post office, lighthouse, coast, militia. Franchise Act, and other services charged to the consolidated fund, will amount to $1,500,000, giving a total to be added to the ordinary expenditure of about $2,700,000. Mr. LANDERKTN. What amount will be required for the Franchise Act ? Mr. MoLFiLAN. That amount we shall be able to esti- mate more closely later on. These sums show an estimated payment to be made during the year somewhere in the neighborhood of $38,500,000, from which if we deduct what we expect to be required and what we have in this «6timate, including an amount for expenses in the North- West, $3,500,000, there will remain $35,000,000 as the ordinary expenditure to be provided for. It is estimated from what we have received up to the present time, that the receipts under the respective heads, will be as follows : We had received up to yesterday from Customs $14,499,- 664. We estimate to receive sufficient to make the sum amount to $19,500,000. From Excise we have received $5,171,000, and we expect to receive $6,250,000. From the other sources, post office, railways, &c., we expect to obtain for the year $7,800,000. All these sums, deducted from what we estimated to be the expenditure, will leave, on the year's business a deficit of $1,450,000. This, as I said at the outset, should be divided between the two years of 1885 and 1886, inasmuch as a part of the revenue due to the present year has been anticipated 40 and gone to the oredit of 1885. Coming to the Eatimatev submitted to the Honee for 1886-87 I desire to say that, so far as I have found it pc*s8ible, I have estimated in full for every service we are called upon to meet, except, perhaps, public works, and there are so many claims, so many de- mands, and apparently with good reason, made upon that department, that, until the House rises, it is almost impossible to say how much will be required for that ser- vice. My hon. colleague, the Minister of Public Works, is 80 anxious to meet the wishes of all the representative*' of the people that it is difSoalt to say when his demands upon- the Treasury will be all in. Taking the several items in detail I have a few observations to offer. The main increase arises in the public debt service. The increase in the in* terest on the public debb is estimated at $118,636, this arising mainly from the increased deposits in the savings banks. There has been during the past year considerable discussion in the public press respecting the rate of interest which the Grovernment should pay to savings bank depositors, ^ and it seems to be a question which is growing in importance,, and one upon which I think the hon. gentlemen opposite have taken the view that we should reduce the interest upon deposits in the Isavings banks. The Government, having ■ considered this question, does not come to that conclusion. We believe it is in the interest of the country at large that every encouragement should be given to the middle class, to the laboring class, to practice habits of economy and save their earnings as much as possible ; and for this reason we are reluctant to reduce the rate and we think it would be an injustice to them to reduce the rate we are at present paying to such depositors. We have examined into the prac- tice in other countries, and find that in England a higher rate of interest is paid by the Government than is paid in the commercial banks of the country. We find that in several of the States— the States of New York, Maine and Massachusetta ' , - ■ 41 — 6 per cent, is allowed to be paid ; and taking all thes^ matters into oonsiderationj and considering mainlj the fact that it is desirable to encourage the working classes to be economical and thrifty in their habits, we have refused to come down to Parliament with a proposition to reduce the rate of interest in the savings banks. More especially is this the case when we are paying for the mcTney we have borrowed abroad, for a large poi'tion of the public debt of the country, a higher rate than we are paying to depositors in the savings banks. 1 have had a statement prepared showing the rates of interest we are paying upon the loans we have effected since 1874, and although the nominal rate is 4 per cent., yet when we take into account the charges made by the agents in London, also the discount made upon those loans, it appears we are actually paying for the money we have obtained in England and abroad, a higher rate of interest than we are paying to our own depositors in the savings banks. Taking the several loans, from 18*74 to 1885, I find we have borrowed $ 124,796,598. Upon that sum there was a discount, to which I referred in the early part of my observations to the House, of $5,965,040. So while we have borrowed $124,000,000 odd, and we owe for that and are paying interest upon it, and some time we shall have to pay the capital, we did not receive that much monej> nearly $6,000,000 less, so that the annual interest on the gross amount of those loans is $4,991,863. Then take one-half of 1 per cent, added as commission for paying interest, and it makes the total amount per annum to interest, $5,016,823, and an actuarial oalculaiion shows that includ- ing charges the rate which the Government pays on these loans is nearly 4| per cent. Now, the returns of the work- ing of the post office savings banks show that the cost, including interest and expenses, is 4^g- per cent., and a statement has been prepared of the amount in the savings banks under the control of the Finance Department, which 42 Bhows th&t the expenses and interest amoant to 4*22 per cent.; the average of both is 4*16, or ^^ of 1 per cent, less than is paid to the foreign lender. The Government thinks that it is unfair, while we are paying that rate of interest abroad, that we shonld not pay the same rate of interest to the working classes of our own coantry, and enooarage them, as I said before, to habits of thrift and economy, and to lay by something for a rainy day. It is a question which has been raised as to whether the amoant received from any one depositor may not be decreased — and some changes are likely to be proposed — bat otherwise we propose to let the matter remain as it isi Sinking fund shows an addition of $504,407, chiefly made up by the restoration of the sinking fand for the 4 per cent* redaoed loan which was omitted last yoar. I need not weary the HoQse by going over all the particulars respecting the small increases which are proposed to be made in the various ranches. Every care ard economy has been exercised in order to reduce them as low as possible. I said in the outset that we had estimated largely for those services which usually come down to the House as Supplementary Estimates, and which include larger amounts than appear in the original Estimates. The Indian vote is increased to $lt0,539, and I expect that will fully cover all the wants of that service. The mounted police vote has also been increased. There is no large increase in the collection of revenue service. It will be noticed that there is a reduction in the superannua- tion service of $10,000. This arises from the fact that the superannuation service was rather over-estimated last year. This is an Item which I think deserves some explanation to the House and to the country, because I find that the working of the Superannuation Act has been largely misrepresented— I do not mean to say intentionally misrepresented, bat misunderstood. Hon. gentlemen looking at the Public Accoants, see as the receipts .^f 'K 43 . from the Buperannuation fand perhaps $50,000 ; they eee that the charge is made oat, say, $200,000, and they suppose, as a matter of course, that the Euperannuation is a tax upon the country of $150,000 a year, I submitted to the House, on the opening of Parliament, a statement of the operation of the Act daring the past year, showing that taking the superannuations made for the year 1835, there has been a saving of $5,691 ; that is, that the superannuation allowance amounted to $18,360, the gratuities to different persons $2,568, and the new annual appointments $15,763, making a total of $36,692, whilst the salaries pre- vioasly received by the persons superannuated amounted to $42,384, showing a saving by the operation of the Act of $5,691. But next year and in the other accounts, the particulars of this statement will drop out, and, as I said, all a person will see in examining the operations of the Act will be that we receive £rom the civil service $50,000, say, and we pay out $200,000, or thau there has been a loss in the operation of $150,000. Now, this has not been the case from the passing of the Act up to the present time. If you examine all the appointments that have been made at lower salaries and if -you ascertain all the vacancies by persons who have been superannuated and their offices not filled, you will find that there has been a large saving to the country through the operation of that Act. In 1880 the Finance Department went through the whole service and made a calculation showing the branches in which there had been a saving and those in which there had been a loss to the country from the operations of the Act. The Department of Finance showed a saving of $48,548.73; the Department of Agri- cnltnre, $18,000; the Inland Bevenue Department, $12,570; the Department of Public Works, $21,000; the Department of Marine and Fisheiies, $30,000; Secretary of State, $5,482; Department of tne Interior, $6,893; Customs, 44 |17t,398. In the Department of Bail ways and Canals there had been a loss up to that time of $23,025 ; Militia and Defence, $3,725; Post Office, $6,000, or a gross saving of $350,183, from which deduct the loss in the three depart- ments, and yon have still a savin? of $317,325, through the operation of the Superaunuation Act up to that time. I have had in my own department the work continued down to the present date, and I find that for the inside service only the operations show a still favorable result to the couLtry in a saving of over $40,000, and that through the continuous operation of that Act a large saving will be effected to the country in general. Then, Sir, I come to other savings which I propose to effect this year, but I need not weary the House by going through them all. The total result of my estimates is before the House, show- ing them to hd $33,124,550. ISow, I come to the other side of the account — the estimated receipts for the years 1886-87* I do not propose— I do not think it necessary — to make any very great ehange in the tariff in order to make up that sum, and in order to set something aside to meet the deficit which has arisen from the disturbance of trade and from the troubles we have experienced in the North-West during the past year. My chief alterations will be changes from ad valorem to specific duties where I find it practicable or advisable to do so. There has been during the past two years a large decline in the price of foreign goods as well as in the price of home productions ; but in consequence of depression in other countries — greater depression, I must say, than exists in our own country — there has been a con- siderable slaughter of goods in other countries, and a great many difficulties have arisen in the Custom house in arriving at the proper values for entry. With speciiic duties that difficulty would be largely obviated ; and I have in several cases to propose to the House changes in that direction, in order to overcome that Ift diffioalty and to lessen the induoemcnt to parties abroad to send Id goods with false invoices. Saoh change as I propose to make other than this will bo upon articles which I think may fai~ly be considered as luxuries, but they will not affect the workingmen, and, therefore, will not give hon. gentlemen opposite any great inducement to increase their cry that we are grinding the poor man down by the burdens of our taxation. I may then, Sir, read to the House the changes that I propose to ask the House to make ; and when we are in committee, that will, perhaps, be the better time to give the detailed information respecting the different items : Almonds, shelled, a specific duty of S cents per lb. Almonds, not shelled, and nuts of all kinds not elsewhere specified, a specific datj of 3 cents per lb. Baking powder, a specific duty of 6 cents per lb. Boxes, oases and writing desks, fancy and ornamental, and fancy manufactures of bone, shell, horn and ivory, also dolls and toys of all kinds and materials ; ornaments of alabaster, spar, terra cotta or com- position, statuettes, beads and bead ornaments, 30 per cent, ad valorem. These articles which I have enumerated may be called laxurieft, and yet they stood on our tariff at a lower per- centage than many other articles that entered into more general use, and I ask the House to increase the duty on this description of goods. ' * Bolts, nuts, washers and rirets of iron or steel, a specific duty of 1 cent, per lb. and 16 per cent, ai valorem. Blueing— Lauidry blueing of all kinds, 25 per cent, ai valorem. Older, a specific duty of 10 cents per Imperial gallon. This was rated formerly at 20 per cent,, which amounted to about 3 cents per gallon. Ooidage— Manilla and sisal cordage of all kinds, a specific duty of 1} -ceuia per lb. and 10 per cent, ad valorem, Dessicated cocoanut, sweeteaei or not, a specific duty of 6 cents per lb. Feathers, ostrich and vulture, undressed, 20 per cent, ad valorem. Feathers, ostrich and vulture, dressed, 30 per cent, ad valorem. Fruit, dried, viz. : Raisins, a specific duty of 1 cent per lb., and 10 per cent, ad valorem. Fruit, dried, viz. ; Currants, dates, figs, prunes, and all other dried fruits not elsewhere specified, a specific duty of 1 cent per lb. 46 Fruit, green, tIz. : Blaokberrlei, gooieberriea, raipberries, and itraw- berrief, a specific daty of 4 ceots per lb , the weight of the package to be iDcladed in the wei;iht for dutj. Peaches, a specific datj of 1 cent per lb , the weight ot the package to be included in the weight for dutj. Gimpi, cords, braids, ribbons and bindings, when imported hj hA\ manufacturers for use in their factories, 15 per cent, ai valorem. Oas, water and soil pipes of cast iron, 30 per cent, ad valorem. QloTes and mitts of all kinds, 80 per cent, ai valorem. Hair cloth of all kinds, 30 per cent, ad valorem. Harness and saddlery of every description and parts of the same, 30 per cent, ad valorem. Laces, braids, fringes, embroideries, cords, tassels and bracelets, also bndds, chains or ords of hair, 30 per cent, ad valorem. Lead pipe and lead shot, a specific duty of 1^ cents per lb. Oleomargarine, butterine or other substitute for butter, a specific duty of 10 cents per lb. We propoBO also to put an Excise daty of 8 cents per lb. upon that article manufactured in Canada. Printed or dyed cotton fabrics not elsewhere specified, 27} per cent. ad valorem. Spirits and strong waters, not having been sweetened or mixed with any article so that the degree of strength thereof cannot be ascertained by Syke's hydrometer, for every Imperial gallon of the strength of proof of such hydrometer, and so in proportion for any greater or less strength than the strength of proof, and for every greater or less quantity than a gallon, viz. : Qeneva gin, rum, whiskey, alcohol or spirits of wine and unenumerated, unmixed and not sweetened spirits by whatever name called, a specific duty of $1.7S per Imperial gallon. Old Tom gin, a specifi: duty of $1.90 per Imperial gallon. This was left at $1.32^ cents last year. * Spirits and strong waters, mixed with aay ingredients, and although thereby coming nnder the denomination of propH-^tary medi- cines, tinctures, essences, extracts or any other denomination, including medicinal elixirs and fluid extracts. Whether in bulk or bottle, not else- where specified, shall be nevertheless deemed to be spirits or strong waters, and subject to duty as such, a specific duty of $2 per Imparial gallon and 30 per cent, ad valorem. So iar as liquors are concerned the increase has been upon Old Tom, otherwise explanatory of the resolutions of last year and the year before. Cologne water and perfumed spirits in bottles or flasks, not weighing more than 4 ounces each, 60 per cent, ad valorem. ).t k{ Cologne water and perfamed tpirita, in bottlei, flMki or other pack- ages, weighing more than 4 ounces ea6h, a specific dntj of $2 per Imperial gallon, and 40 per cent, ai valorem. Tubing, wrought iron, plain, 2 inches in diameter or under, coupled and threaded or not, SO per cent, ai valorem. Wire, iron or steel, galvanized or not, 16 guage and coarser, 20 per cent, ad valorem. Whips of all kinds, BO per cent, ad valorem. Wire fencing, buckthorn, strip and other similar fencing of iron or steel, a specific duty of 1} cents per lb. Yeast cakes and compressed yeast, in packages or balk of 1 lb. and over, a specific duty of 6 cents per lb. Yeast cakes, in packages of less than 1 lb., a specific duty of 8 cents, per lb. Portland and Roman cements to be classed with all other cement, at specific rates as now provided. , Now, I come to the question of sngar. Those who have studied the returns of past years will see that the revenue from sugar has been gradually deolining. We did not impose so large a daty as was imposed in 1877-78. The revenue derived from sugar, under the tari£Pof 1877-78, was $2.39 per 100 lbs. Under the new tariff the revenue, in 1881, was $1.80. In 1B82, the value of sugar had slightly declined, and the ad valorem duty gave a less return, namely, $1.69 ; in 1883, it was $1.61 ; in 1884, $1.50 ; and in 1885, $1.27 per 100 lbs. We propose to ask the House first to change the mode of testing the value of sugar. There has been a good deal of discussion upon this question with refiners of the different Provinees, some of whom have made complaiots that favor has been shown to refiners in other Provinces which were not shown to themselves. I do not find that there has been any great ground for this complaint. I think that the ofSioers of Customs have discharged their duty very faithfully, and when a comparison of the returns is made, it is seen that there is very little, an almost imperceptible difference, in the returns from the various refineries through- out the country. In the United States, all sugars are sold by the polariscope-test, the refiners of this country test their 43 sugars, prioe them, and sell them by the polarisoope test ; and 1 think, from the satisfaotion this has given abroad and from the contentions that arise under the color test, it is advisable to ask the House to adopt the polarisoope test, and to name a specific duty for all refining sugars, which will be an average of the rates received between 1836 and 1881. What, then, I propose, is to ask the House to impose these duties : Oa sagar, melaio, concentrated melado, eoneentrated cane jaice, concentrated molasses, concentrated beet-root Juice and concrete, wheo imported direct from tlie country of growth and production, for refining purposes only, not over No. 13 Dutch standard in color, and not testing over seventy degrees by the polarisoope, a specific duty of 1 cent per lb., and for every additional degree or fraction of a degree shown by polarisoope test 3^ cents per 100 lbs. additional. I may explain that the American tariff imposes a duty of $1.40 per 100 lbs. for the test of eeventy-five degrees, and charges 4 cents for every degree above seventy five. What we have taken is a little over three-fourths of the American tariff, reducing everything about the same pro- portion, 60 as to charge a trifle over three-fourths of the American duty. On sugar not for refining purposes, not over No. 13 Dutch standard in color, when imported direct from the country of growth and produc- tion, a specific duty of 1 cent per lb. and 30 per cent, ad valorem on the value thereof free-on-board at the last port of shipment. On all sugars above No. 13 Dutch standard 'in color, and on refined sugar of all kinds, grades or standards, 1} cents per lb., and 36 per cent. ad valorem on the value thereof free-on-board at the last port of shipment. On all sugars, not imported direct, without transhipment from coun- try of growth and production, there shall be levied and collected an additional duty of 7^ per cent, of the whole duty so otherwif^e payable thereon. That is, in the case of indirect shipments, the duty shall first be ascertained under the rates named, and then 7^ per cent, of the duty shall be added for that. We have always had in our tariff that distinction between direct and indi- rect shipments. '^ •*«i. ■^ 49 Provided that whon anj cargo of sa^ar for refiaing putpoMi ii found to grade, to the extent of not orerlS percent, of the whole abore No. 13, Dutch standard in color, the whole of laid cargo may be admitted to entry by polariicope test, as abore provided for refiaing pnrposei only. Syrups, cane juice, refined syrup, sugar house syrup or sugar house molasses, syrup of sugar, syrup of molasses or sorghum, whether im- ported direct or cot, a specific duty of 1 cent per lb. and 30 per cent, ad f,alor«m. HolassesB, other, when imported direct, without traaebipment, and from the country of growth and production, 15 per cent, ad valorem. Holassess. when not so imported, 20 per cent, ad valorem. The value upon which the acfva/ctot duty shall be levied and coI« lected upon all the above named eyrup? and molasses ahall be the value thereof free-on- board at the last port of shipment. Provided that molassess, when imported for or received into any re- fiuery or sugar factory, or to be used for any other purpose than actual 'Consumption, shall be subject to, and there shall be levied and collected thereon, an additional duty of S cents per Imperial gallon. Provided that the change in the rates of duty on sugars and molasses shall apply only to importations arriving in O«nadaooand after the 31st day of March, instant, and not to such articles warehoused prior to that date. Sugar candy, brown or white, and confectionery, a specific duty of 1| cents per pound and 3S per cent, ad valorem. Then, T propose to amend eohedale " B," the list of goods which are entitled to be entered free of daty, by substitut- ing the following provisions for the following items : — Articles for the personal use of consuls general' who are natives or citizens of the country they repreee at and who are not engagad in any other business or profession. It has been found that a great many consuls have been ■appointed, and that several of them are engaged in other business and claim to have articles for their use entered free of duty. This is to explain the provision, and to con- fine it to consuls general, who are natives or citizens of the country they represent, and not engaged in any business. Borax, in lump ; grease, the refuse of animal fat ; iron and steel, old and scrap, bni nothing shall be deemed scrap iron or steel, except waste or refuse iron or steel that has been in actual use, and fit only to be re-manufactured ; sumac, crude. , 4 60 Then we strike out from the free list, iron Rand or globalea and dry patty for polishing granite. These are articles that are being manafactured now in oar own coantry. Phflosophical instrumeats and apparatus, including globes, &c. These have been on the free list for a great many years, and all the sohools have been compelled to go abroad for such articles, and it has been found that many of the globes and maps imported have been specially designed for the country in which they are manufactured, and that special prominence is given to that country upon them. For a year or two, in Toronto, and I think in Montreal also, there Lave been gentlemen engaged in the manufacture of globes and philosophical instruments for schools, and, with the sanction of the superintendents of schools in Ontario — at least some of them from whrtm I havo heard— it is proposed to encourage the manufacture, so that there may be a supply of those instruments within reasonable reach, instead of the trouble of sending abroad for them being necessary. Then, it 16 proposed to amend schedule " D " relating to prohi- bited articles, by striking out the item relating to copy- right works, and substituting the following in l:?n thereof, namely :— ' Reprints of OanadJan copyright works, and reprints of British copy- right works which Lave been also copyrighted in Canada. There is another resolution declaring that it is expedi- ent to provide for an Excise duty of eight cents a pound on oleomargarine, butterine, or other substitute for butter, manufactured in Canada. These, so far, are the propositions which we hiive tonight to submit to the House. Now, assuming that these are assented to by the House, I think that we may reasonably expect that the revenue during the year 1886-87 will be as follows : I may say, first, that even with the fall benefit of any changes that I have proposed here, I am not counting upon any very large 1 norease to the Castoms revenue of the country during 1886-87. We have had, or 61 we are to Lave, the Canadian Paoifio Bail way opened through to British Colambia. Hon. gentlemen know by the returns that theamoantof duties collected in British Columbia and Manitoba has been out of proportion to the ordinary collections in other parts of the country of similar population, because they have been shut out from connection w!th the manufiactnrers of the country, and I believe that, with the opening of the road, a great deal of the trade which hitherto went from British Columbia to the United States and from Manitoba also to the United States will be given to our own manufacturers in the Dominion. Therefore, I do not anticipate so largo a revenue from those two Pro- vinces as ^e have had in the past. My estimate then for the year 1886-87 will be :— From Customs, $20,200,000; from Excise, 07,000,000 ; from post office, railways, inter- est and miscellaneous services, $7,300,000 ; making a total of $34,500,000 ; against which I have shown an estimated expenditure of $33,124,650, leaving, as the estimates now stand, a surplus of $1,375,450. This, of course, when my hon.friend the Minister of Public Works has had his Bay,80 far as he can have it, will probably be reduced, still I hope that the public service will not call for a very large additional e:?penditur6 this year, and that the amount of the anti- cipated surplus for 1886-87 will not be very largely reduced by Supplementary Estimates. It may be that the hon. gentleman who will follow me will think I have over- estiL'^ated this matter, and that I am over-sanguine as to the amount that I shall receive during the coming year of 1886-87. I suppose that, if he speaks by the experience of the past, he will say I am. He might tell u) that he entered upon his administration full of hope, as I am \ that he had great expectations of revenue, and that, when he proposed to increase the duties by three millions of dollars, there was no doubt in his mind that he would receive that addition to his revenue ; but we know 4i 62 ilr-. the result ; we know that time, and tue policy that he was pnr^uiDg, frustrated his hopes and wrought his political ruin for that period. I know that this may, perhaps, be the impression on his mind now, and he may, perhaps, bring us the proof from the records that all this occurred, but I believe that the policy this Government is pursuing will lead to better results than the policy which the hon. gentleman and his party pursued from 1874 to 1878. It is true that we have not had in the past year or two that commercial activity that we had in 1881 and 1882, but there hci been great caution on the part of our merchants, in view of the great reduction which has been going on in the prices of various goods throughout the world ; and there has been a very large reduction, more especially in free trade coun- tries, where the depression was most strong. I am «ure, Mr. Speaker, that if we compare the position of the Dominica of Canada in its trade with the condition of any other country, more particularly free trade countries, we will find that the depression has not affected us so seriously as it has some of those other countries. We have every indication from the country at large that there is sound commercial life, and that there is ability to enlarge commercial operations in the country, and I rely upon that. The revenue to be derived from a people, depends a good deal upon the ability of the people to purchase goo^s, and upon their inclination to do eo. I know, Mr. Speaker, that the inclination generally exists, and the ability to do eo wo may enquire into. Com- mencing with the agricultural class, I think wo have every reason to believe that tLe farmers of this country are in a better position to-day than they have been for years— at all events, in a very much better condition than they were during^ iiud period from 1874 to 1878. We live beside the greatest agricultural people in U K 53 » the world, perhaps, and they are a people who, notwith- standing that thej have a large surplas to export, will per- mit no article of agrioultaral produce to enter their coun- try free. That was the condition of things from 18*74 to 1878, and yet while fhat condition of things existed, the policy that was pursued by the GoverLment of this country was to admit all agricaltural produce free. Mr. Speaker, I do not wonder that this had a depressing effect upon the farmers of thid country, and I think, Sir, that effeci upon the agricultural community was evinced in the fact that 80 large a quantity of American farm produce oame into this country free, and was consumed by our people^ instead of being supplied by our own farmers. Sir, we have changed that policy. We have said to Canadian farm- ers, that just such measure as the American Government has been meting out and docs mete out to you, we will mete out to the American farmer. We will endeavor to shut out the large importation that has been going on of American farm produce to feed the people of this Dominion, who have so much fertile soil and so many willing hands to cultivate that soil and to produce all that is required for the sustenance of their own people. But we said more. We said to the Canadian farmer : We will inaugurate such a trade policy as will give employment to a large number of con- sumers whom you will have to feed and support from your farms, and wo will increase your markets not only by stopping foreign produce, but by multiplying the number of consumers of your own farm produce. Under this changed policy the condition of the farmer seems to have rapidly improved. The importa- tion of American agricultural farm produce has diminished, although our home consumption has increased largely. This matter has been discussed by the organ of the third party, in this house, and an attempt has been made to show that the National Policy has been a failure, because there is 54 M still a considerable importation of breadstuffs into the coantry. Weil, Mr. Speaker, it is true there has been some considerable importation, bat my position is this : that under oar National Policy we have largely red need the importa* tion of American breadstaffs, and we have also stimulated the Canadian farmer to greater activity ; that he has sapplied what has fallen short in importation, and he has largely increased hh exports abroad. The increased activity which has been given to all branches of industry seems to have affected as well the farming popala« tion, and they are able to supply the three or four million dollars worth of American farm produce that used to come in, and we have largely increased our exports abroad. Now, Mr. Speaker, in 1875 there was entered $12,389,900 worth of American breadstaffs; in 18*76 there was imported $11,114,000 worth; in 1877, $13,858,000 worth; in 1878, $13,452,000 worth, a total in those four years of $50,813,900 worth. We exported $24,000,000 odd, leaving, as consumed by the people of this country, $26,707,126 worth, or $6,676,000 worth per year. Now, Sir, under the present policy, without giving the sum for each year, the total imports for six years, beginning with 1880, have been $18,784,000, or $3,130,600 a year, as against $6,676,000 before the National Policy was inaugurated. That is, we have imported per year less than one-half as much as was imported per year before the adoption of the National Policy. I may state that the article of Indian corn was mentioned by the organ of the party, and it was shown that it has been taxed to the large amount of *J^ cents per bushel. Well, Mr. Speaker, it is true that under this policy we did tax Indian corn 7} cents a bushel ; but a large portion of the imports of Indian corn was for the purpose of being distilled into whiskey. In 1880 there were 739,000 bushels imported; 1881, 754,000 bushels and so on; in the six years there were ,5,368,123 bushels 55 •# imported, paying 7| cents per bushel duty, all] for the purpose of being distilled into whiskey and not for the purpose of being consumed as breadstaffs. Bat I have shown by statistics that we have shut out by our policy more than $3,000,000 worth a year of breadstuffd coming in from the United States, and I will make a comparison showing the exports of farm produce. In 18*75 we shipped agricultural exports, including breadstuffs and products of animals, to the value of over $29,958,000 ; 1876, $ 10,000,000 ; 1877, $28,000,000; 1878, $32,000,000; 1879,|$33,000,000 ; or a total of $165,680,000 in those years. Since the intro* duction of the National Policy the exports have been aa follows:— 1881, $42,000,000; 1882, $51,000,000; 1883, $13,000,000; 1884, $35,000,000; 1885, $39,000,000— $212,000,000 in all. From this sum deduct $165,000,000 exports in the same number of years without the National Policy, and yon have left an increased expotw of $46,858,833 or $9,371,70*6 a year. Our farmers have exported annually, on an average, upwards of $9,000,000 in excess of what they did before, and they have supplied the home market to the value of $3,600,000 of American produce shut out, making over $13,000,000 more than was exported under the policy of hon. gentlemen opposite. Mr. CHARLTON. Where is the home market ? Mr. McLELAN. Why, I have just explained to the hon. gentleman, as well as 1 could, that we have given the home market to Canadian farmers to the extent of $3,515,000 a year ; and that is supposing there had been no increase of population during that period. Bat it will not be pretended that there has not been more supplied with the increase of population in the manufacturing districts since 1881, and that the home market has not been larger than it was before, the $3,545,000 in addition. A word more in regard to the home market. In the first six months of this year, the importation of farm produce and provisions for the use 66 of the people has declioed over $3,000,000 as compared with the first bix months of last year. So the House wilt see that year by year oar farmers have been steadily taking possession of the home' market as well as increasing their exports abroad, and the encouragement afforded them has- given them greater activity and life, and they do not now " leave the oxen idle in the stall aod the plowshare rnsting in the field." The hon. gentleman opposite does not seem to be quite satisiied that our farmers have been benefited by the operation of our policy ; and when an hon. gentleman, who was elected for his intelligence as a reprcEentative of the people, claims not to see in what way the farmers have been benefited, I thiok there may possibly be farmers who- have not yet seen clearly in what way they have been benefited. • ' ' Some hon. MBMBERS. Hear, hear. v?^ ^ Mr. M0LBLA.N. Some hon. members say " hear, hear."^ I suppose you coald put it more clearly to the farmers. The hon. gentleman knows Toronto, a city with a population of 100,000. Suppose you could draw a cordon of American- Custom house officers round that city and say to the farmers- of Ontario: Yoa shall not take in a pound of batter or any agricultural produce to feed that population of 100,000^ but they shall be fed entirely by American farmers. If yon could do that in practice it would bring the matter home to Ontario farmers, aud I think the hon. 'gentleman himself would not ask how they were at present benefited, and the farmers would see how they had lost by such a transaction,. by being shut out from supplying the city. Suppose hon. gentlemen opposite should come into power and should bring their policy into operation, and all the men who are now employed in manufactures, and who were not employed in 1878 under their policy, by which great importations of slaaghtered goods were sent in from the United States, had to shut up and go to the United States. My predecessor n #'■ brought down last year a statoment showing that by statis* tics there had been established, under the National Policy, factories giving employment to 34,000 hands. The proba> bilitius are that under such a change of policy as I have indicated almost the whole of those people would be driven out of the country into the United States to manufacture the goods that might bo wanted by the pepolo who would be left behind. '" ^ ' * Mr. LANDEEK.IN. More than that number have been driven out. ' Mr. MoLELAN. The hon. gentleman says tha more than that number have been driven out. But he Wi aid not object to driving out 34,000 more, Mr. LANDBRKIN. I would. ''' Mr. M0LELA.N — and all the people connected with them. Let me carry the supposition farther. Suppose that after those people had been in the United States for a time manufacturing for the Canadian people, being fed by American farmers and paying tribute to the American Government, they should say : The products of our toil go over to Canada; we are scattered in different towns; suppose we unite, cross the line and establish ourselves at one centi al point, and take over the men who build our homes, and our lawyers, doctors, clergy, wives and children and servants, and make a population of over 100,000 and locate at some place where not a pound of butter or an article from a Canadian farmer will come, but American farmers will have free entry by market waggon and railway to come and go ' nd supply us with everything we need, and the Canadian farmer shall have no intercourse with us. Then the hon. gentleman himself and all the Canadian farmers would see the effect of that operation in practice, and I think they would say : It is better that we should have a policy that will keep those mechanics and their families here and enable 7= i i 68 oar own farmers to supply them with their farm prodaotSi and thus fiud a market for them at home. Mr. Speaker, I have referred, in reply to the hon. gentle- man, to the increase in the number of wage-earners and to the faot that Sir Leonard Tilley had statistics prepared show- ing the increase in the number of artisans employed in the various factories of this country from 1878 up to the com- mencement of 1881. I have not had the opportunity of con- tinuing that operation, but in our trade returns there is suf- fioient evidence to show that the increase in the number of wage-earners and artisans employed has been enormous from 1878 up to the present time. We have imported more than $10,000,000 worth of machinery since 1878. That machinery was not imported to stand idle. That machinery is now giving employment to large numbers of people in vari- ous portions of the country. We have imported large quan- tities of the raw materials to which I have already referred —cotton, wool, hides, pig-iron, and everything that enters in the manufacture of goods, and all these things prove conclu- sively to me that there is an increased number of people employed, an increased number of wage-earners who are receiving good wages, and who will be able to purchase goods and contribute to the revenues of the country during the year. In everything there is evidence of increased ac- tivity. I read to the House to-night the increase in the post office service. Hon. gentlemen opposite claimed that we would kill out the shipping trade of the country, but there has been a steady increase in the coasting and foreign trade of this country ever since this policy was introduced, all tending to show that the country is progressing favorably, Mr. MITCHELL. Sailing vessels ? Mr. McLELA.N. I will read the figures to the hon. gen- tleman. The coasting trade in 1881-86 was 16,914,122 tons the foreign trade in ships was 7,644,615 tons. Mr. MITCHELL. Sailing vessels ? r Mr. M0LELA.N. Sailing vessels and steamers. Mr. MITCHELL. I am asking aboat sailing vessels. Mr. MoLBLAN. I have not separated them. I have not learned yet that a steamer oannot carry goods and passen- gers. I think that the steamerB carry jnst as many goods in proportion to their spare tonnage as sailing vessels and deliver them quicker, and I was taking them both together. The foreign tonnage was 7,644,615. . , Mr. MITCHELL. Foreign tonnage ? Mr. MoLELAN. The coasting and foreign trade to- gether was 23,589,000 tons. In 1878-'79 the coasting trade was 12,066,683 tons ; the foreign trade 6,000,000 tonp, or a total of over 18,000,000 tons. There is an increase in the six years of 6,433,804 tons or an average of 905,634 tons a year. '/ '' ■ ' ''■■ '"''' ■ ■^-■■k, ■■■.< ;, Mr. MITCHELL. Foreign tonnage, but not Canadian; that is the point. Mr. MoLBLAN. I am not speaking of whether we owned more or less tonnage Mr. MITCHELL. Ah 1 That is what I want to know. Mr. MoLELAN. I am speaking of this point : that tbe people of this country, the trade of this country and the wants of this country, employed a larger tonnage by 6,433,804 tons than they did in 1873. Mr. MITCHELL. Yes, but owned by foreigners ;, there is the point. An hon. MEMBER. It makes no difference. Mr. MITCHELL. It makes a great deal of difference. Mr. MoLELAN. I am not aware that foreigners own a very large proportion of the shipping that Is engaged In the coasting trade of this country. I am not aware of it, and if the hon. gentleman will show It to mo, I will accept the 60 figures he will give, bot it does not alter the position I have taken, that the trade of the coantry requires Si,433,80:l tons, and employs that tonnage more than it did in 1878*'79. Then if we come down to railways we find that in IB*J9-*J9 wd had 6,664 miles of railways in operation ; their train mileage was 19,000,000 ; the total passengers carried, 6,444,000 ; the number of tons of freight carried, 7,833,000. Now, Sir, in 1886, wo have 10,149 miles of railway in opera* tion ; we have a total train mileage of 30,623,000 ; the total number of passengers carried, 9,672,59?, and the total num- ber of tons of freight carried, 14,679,949 ; it an increase in all these items of over 50 percent., all tending to show that there is an increased trade, an increased activity in business throughout the country. Therefore, Sir, I think thatlum right in the position I take, that the business of the country is more active and better. Then we have the fact as shown by our bank returns that we have $16,000,000 more of bank and Dominion notes in circulation than there were in 1878; that the deposits in the chartered banks in 1885 were $106,000,000; in 1878, $72,000,000; or an increase of $34,000,000. We have the faot that the savings binks deposits have increased from $8,497,000 to $35,280,000 up to last night, an increase in deposits of $26,783,000» But, Mr. Speaker, we have an increased number of men engaged in business, and we have also an increased number engaged in business without failing as they did in 1878. The number of traders, in 1885, was 70,043, with failures amounting to $8,743,000. In 1878 we had 56,347 traders, with failures amounting to $26,875,000. There'is an increase of 13,696 in the number of people engaged in trade through* out the country, and there is a decrease of $18,132,000 in the amount of the failures, and I take these facts as the best indication of the condition of the country, that larger numbers are engaged in trade, and engaged without loss to* themselves and to the country at large. The returns for jr- 61 the first period of this year show still more favorably in respect to the failures. The return, as given for the firrtt six weeks of 18 j6, was 192 failures, as against 235 in the same period of 1885^. and 287 in 1881; so that, comparing with 1878, the decrease is very great in the number, and the decrease in the amount of liabilities is something enormous. I was very deeply impressed with the explanation which the hon. member for Bothwell (Sfr. Mills) gave a year or two ago, of the causes of failures from 1874 to 1878. He put the whole case in a nutshell. He said that " the merchants failed for want of customers ; " and I suppose there were no customers because there was no employment for the people, and no money among the people to enable them to purchase the merchants' goods. Therefore the merchant stood idle at his counter, waiting in vain for customers that did not come— that could not come — because they had no money and no employment; and therefore ruin and bankruptcy fell upon the merchant, and the official assignee walked the land like a pesti- lence at noonday. Sir, I start from one point — idleness of the people, want of employment, no factories in operation, and consequently no customers for the merchant — and there follow a bankrupt merchant and an empty treasury. I start from the other point — employment for the people, money for the people, money taken by the people to the mer- chant, the merchant busy, and a full treasury. You start from one point, and you reach the one conclusion absolutely ; yon start from the other point, and you roach the other conclu- «ion just as certainly. When you have employment for the people, you have not only a busy merchant and a full trea- eury, but you have above all a contented and happy people. Daniel Webster, the great American statesman, speaking upon this point, after he had beer converted to protective views, said : "The interesta of every laboring commuaity require direraitj of oocupation, parauits and objects of iadustrj. The more that diversity I N r IT 62 iB multiplied or extended, the better. To divenify emplojmeat ii to enhance wages. And, Sir, take this grr at truth, place it on the title page of every book of political economy intended for me, put it on every /armer'i almanac ; let it be the headmg of every colaino in every mechanic's magazine. Proclaim it everywhere, and make it a proverb, that where there is work far the hands of men, there will be work for their teeth. Where there is employment there will be bread. It is a great blessio ; to the poor to have cheap food ; bnt greater than that, prior to that, and of still higher value, is the blessing of being able to bay food by honest and respectable employment. Employment feeds, clothes and instructs ; employment gives strength, sobriety and morals. Constant employment and well paid labor produce, in a country like oura, general prosp3rity, content and cheerfulness. Thus hsppy have -we Been the country, thus happy may we long continue to see it." The hon. member for South Httron (Sir Ri'^hard Cartwright), Bome time during this Session, told us that the National Policy had beer a failure, ueoause ther«^ had boon large importations in ezcebs of the exports ; and he gave figures by which he made it appear tbn^ ther ' hau heow an ezoess of $101,762,000 worth of imports over exports. Now, Sir, let me refer to this for a moment. "We were in vory peculiar circumstances. Manitoba, the North-West and Bri- tish Columbia imported largely of foreign goods, having no facilities for procuring goods of domestic manufacture. If the hon. gentleman will compare the imports into Manitoba, tbr North-Westand British Columbia from 1874 to 1879 with the imports from 1880 to 1835, he will find that they im- ported in the latter period $46,603,000 worth of foreign goods. If he will take that froti our excess of imports over exports for the ft'ime period, he will find that it leave5!i but $56,159,000. or $9,359,833 a year. He will also find that the imports into thos3 districts from 1874 to 1879 were only $18,000,000, which deducted from the excess of im- ports over exports, will leave $86,000,000; or In that period there was an excess of imports over exports, exdu- Bive of Manitoba, the North-West and British Columbia of $17,242,000 ayear, while from 1880 to 1885 there was only an ezoess of $9,359,000 a year. But the hon. gentleman will also 63 S fiDd, on examination of the trade and revenue retarns, that a large proportion of the ezoess of imports over exports in the older Provinces was raw material for mannfaotare, or articles that should come in free. For instance, there was an iuorease in 1885 over 1878 in hides and horns of 95t)3,000, in cotton and wool of $1,500,000, in settlers' effects of $746,000, in coin and ballion of $2,260,000,and so on, making an excess of imports over exports in those articles, which are free, of $8,630,000 ; so that the whole excess of imports over exports in the older Provinces is disposed of in that way. Mr. Speaker, I have detained the House at greater length than I intended, or should have done, and I mast apologise for it. But an hon. gentleman opposite has sa?d that we have driven more than 40,000 people out of the country ; and I suppose we shall hear the same thing from the hon. gentle- man who is about to address the Hoase on the opposite side. It is true. Sir, we have not had in the past that great increase of numbers that they have had in the United States. In the United States, long previous to the taking of the last census, they had a policy of protection to home indus- try. They had a policy of giving their people employment and high wages, a policy which drew immigrants to the United States from all parts of the world. They had also opened for settlement large tracts of prairie country, and the two policies combined helped to increase the popu- lation of the United States at a greater rate than the increase in the Dominion. But, Sir, if wo take the Ameri- can census of 1880 and the Canadian census of 1881, and if we select a number of the older States, which offer a fair ground for comparison with the Dominion of Canada, we will find we have held our own very well. Of course, if you go into the newer States, with attractions of new territory and prairie soil, you will find a much larger percentage of increase; but what I want is to maKe a comparison with the older States. Conneoti- 61 cat, which had 537,000 inhabitants in 1871, had 622,633 in IdSl. Connectioat, Maine, Massaohusetts, New Hampshire, Vt)rmo it, Dakota— I pnt in Dakota as a set-off to Manitoba -^comparing those States with Prince Edward Island, Nova Scotia, New Brunswick, Ontario, Quebec, Manitoba and British Columbia, I find that the American States increased 16*06 arid the Dominion of Canada increased 1*7*03 per cent, in population, according to the last census: so that when we make a proper comparison between the Dominion and the older and more settled por- tions of the United States we find we have more than held • oar own. Now, the complaint has beec made that the National Policy has not done its duty, because times have not been so brisk as they were in 1862-83. But, as I said before, if we compare the position of trade in Canada with the position of other countries—, the United States, and Great Britain, for instance — we will find that our position is better than theirs, and we can gather from this, that but for the National Policy ruin and bankruptcy would have been upon us. It is in times when there is great depression in surrounding countries, when there are over*production and slaughter in prices of goods in those countries, that we find the protective policy desirable and advantageous, and it has proved itself here highly beneficial in protecting us from the onslaughts which would have been made upon us by foreign manufacturers. I proposed to deal with this question more fully, but I have occupied so large a share of the public time that I cannot go into it as fully as I would wish. I want, however, to give one instance to show how the National Policy is affeciiug the wage-earner in this country at present. All tbat is required for the pro- daotion of cheap goods in this country, is that there shall be a market for those goods, and the larger the market the cheaper they will be. Our people are as active and as intelligent as any others, and when they are forced 65 abroad, as they bave been, they make as good artisans, with ^a little experience and training, as are to be found in the world. All that they require to be fit to manafaotnre every- thing required in this country, and to manufacture as cheaply as is manufactured in the United States or elsewhere, is that they shall have some training, and this they will obtain by our furnishing them with a market for their goods. Now, the manufacturer or capitalist seeks a fair return for his investment ; he looks into the chances existing for placing the products of his investment ; and the smaller the output he has, the larger percentage he must put upon that output in order to meet the interest upon his capital and the depreciation of his plant. There is a very familiar illustration of this. Tou take a blast furnace which requires $30,000 to meet the in- terest upon the capital invested in it and the depre- ciation of the plant. If the output of that fprnace be 15,000 tons of pig-iron, of course there must be $2 a ton put upon the iron, in order to pay the interest and the deprecia- tion of the plant. If yon increase the output to 20,000 tons, then it only requires $1.50 per ton to pay these charges ; if you increase it to 30,000 tons, you only want $1 a ton upon it, to pay a dividend and you can sell the pig-iron $ 1 u ton cheaper. If you run the output up to 60,000 tons, all you want is 50 cents a ton, and you have $30,000 raised, and the pig-iron is $1.50 cheaper than it would be with only 15,000 tons of output The same principle holds good in all the manufactures in which we are engaged. The percentage which must be put upon every yard of cloth which comes from the loom depends upon the output, in order to meet the interest upon the capital and the depreciation of the plant. You must have one of two things, Tou must either have a large market and a large output or you must have a low rate of wages, and that means a low scale of living and a small expenditure fot the benefit of the farmer. Moreover, you cannot for any considerable length of time, keep men employed at a lovr rate of wages, while across the border, in the Upited States, there are larger wages paid and attractions offered to draw them to that country. The intention of the National Policy is that we shall give a large market to oar own mannfactarers. We have not so large a market of course as they have in the United States,^ but we can give a proportionate market, one-tenth or one- twelfth in proportion to the population of the other side. David Wells, the American apostle of free trade, has been often quoted in this House, and he says : '* Washes are labor's share of prodnct, and in every healthy business are ultimately paid out of product. No employer of labor can continue for any great length of time to pay high wages unless his product i» large. If it is not, and he attempts, it is only a question of time when his affairs will be wound up by the sheriff. On the other hand if a high rate of wages is permanently paid in aay industry and in any country it is in itself proof positive tbiit the proluct of labor is large, that the laborer is entitled to a generous share of it, and that the employer can afford to give it him." That is what we have been striving to do in this country, and it is what we are accomplishiner, when we are giving a larger market to our own manufacturers, and we have the result that a larger, a more generous wage is being paid to the employes than previous to the introduction of this policy. I have not gathered any statistics, except from one company, the Canada Cotton Manufacturing Company, of Cornwall, and I have a comparison in regard to that company between 1878 and 1886, with which I wish to trouble the House in order to show the result of the National Policy in increasing the rate of wages, the n amber of hands, and not the price of goods. Mr. MITCHELL. There is a 35 per cent, duty thoagh. Mr. M0LELA.N. In 18*78, in the six months from July to December, there were 407 hands employed in that fae. tory, who received $17,557 in wages ; the dailj amount paid 67 •% being 8305, and the average paid to each hand per day 75 cents. Times seemed to grow worse, and in the throe months from October to December the amount paid to each hand ran down to 72 cents; and in the month of December it ran down to 69 cents. Now I come to 1885, ander the operation of the National Policy, and I find that, for the six months ending December, there were 640 hands employed, receiving $91,144 in wages ; the daily anooaDt paid being 9531, or an average per day of 91 cents to each hand, against 75 cents in 1878. For the three months from October to December, there were 670 hands employed — the number increases as w^d go on — and the average amount paid was 9 J cents. In the last month of the year, 672 hands were employed, and the average amount paid to each was 90 cents. For the six months, the percentage of hands be- tween 1878 and 1885 shows an increase of 57|- per cent., the wages paid an increase of 91f per cent., and the amount of daily wages to each hand an increase of 21 per cent. In the three mouths there was an increase of ti6\ percent, in the number of hands employed, of ! 8^ per cent, in the amount of wages paid, and of 28 per cent, in the amount paid to each hand. In the last month of the year, the increase in average wages was 30 per cent, over that paid in 1878. So you will see from tbe figures given that the people em- ployed by this company are receiving a greater wage per day than they were in 1878. Bat the hon. gentleman Fays we have a duty of 30 per cent. Mr. MITCHELL. I said 35 per cent. Mr. MoLELAN. Well, 35 percent. In 1878, the price of standard sheeting, weighing 2*85 yards per lb, oast 10 cents, les^ 7^ per cent, discount, or 26-36 cents per lb., with the average price of cotton 10^ cents. In 1886, that same sheeting, cost 6^ cents per yard net, or 18*52 ^ents per lb.» against 2636 cts. per lb. in 1878. 6J \ 68 Mr. MITCHELL. What did the raw cotton cost ? Mr. MoLELAN. It cost 10^ rents in 18*78, and in 1886 it oost 10*56 cents per lb. This shows that, though the hon. gentleman says there is a duty of 36 per cent, consu- mers are getting their sheetings now for 42^ per cent, less than they pr id in 1878, while the raw cotton is not quite 3 per cent, cheaper. That is the result of the operations in that factory, and I am satisfied that it will be shown to be the result all over this country, that men are being em- ployed, that they are receiring greater wages, and that the output of the factories is given at less cost than it was in 18*78, when people had a narrow market and could not produce as cheaply as now when they have a larger market. This is what we are doing with the National Policy and that is what we intended ; we are giving employment to the people and at better wages, by our protection. It is not the cotton. in its raw state that we want to protect, it is not the ore in the moun- tain, nor coal in the mine, it is not the clay in the potter's hands that we want to protect, it is the hands that are forming and fashioning the clay, it is the men who dig the ore from the mine, the men who smelt it in the furnace and the factory, and form and fashion it into the shape we require to use ; it is the men and women who are manipula- ting the warp and the woof in the cotton factories, — it is these whom we want to protect, and it is these whom we have protected, as I have shown, and for whom we have secured a higher rate of wages. Therefore, the National Policy is no failure, from any point of view you look at it. I' have detained the House too long Some hon. MEMBERS. Go on. Mr. MoLELAN. No, I must close, in justice to my hon. friend opposite. I have gone over the Pablic Accoants, and I have shown the position of affairs in 1885. I have shown ' '69 ' that, taking the year by itself and apait from the troubles in the North- West, we stand very well. I think hon. gen- tlemen will admit that we stand very well, for they never liked the idea ot having a large surplus. I have shown that in 1886 we shall not be so very bad, and that there is a jus- tification for us for putting that extraordinary expendituie which we have had in connection with the North- West to capital account, because during the years that we have administered the Government of the country, we have paid from reve^Bue a large amount into capital ' account. It is not the custom with other countries in the world, which have (^een engaged in wars, to place all the expenditure of those wars on reveDuo immediately. The United States did not, they could not, they left it to capital account, and it was years before they commenced the reduction of their indebt- edness. It was fourteen years before they returned to specie payments. I have shown, I think, conclusively, that there is no great cause for alarm in the amount of burden that is imposed upon this country for interest at present. I have shown that there was, up to 1885, a less rate of interest 'per capita upon this country than existed in 1878, and only 23 cents at the most more than .there was in 186t, when the people were poorer and had not the ability to pay. I have shown that, taking out the extraordi- nary expenditures and those that are not taxation, the increased expenditure from 186*7 to 1835 has been compara- tively trifling, a little over $2,000,000. So, Sir, I do not antici- pate that we shall hear very much more of the increased taxation from $13,000,000 up to $31,000,000 or $35,000,000 in e'/^hteen years. Sir, they have first to convince the man who has engaged in the business and the duties in life, and who is expending $35 for an outfit and a suit, that he is doing wrong and ought to go back to the $13 suit, that he had eighteen years ago, when he was a boy. They will have to convince the merchant who id doing a business 70 of millions that he is in danger of bankruptcy ?)nd rmn beoanee his ezperses arc larger, his staff of clerks is larger than they were when he had a little corner shop, and as Carlyle said : " The red herrings and the pipes painfully crossed in the wicdow." Sir, before they can convince the people of this country that we are doing wrong in our expenditure, they will have to persuade the stockholders of the Bank of Montreal to sell out if they wieh to avoid bankruptcy and ruin, because the Bank of Montreal, when it started, only expended £400 or £500 a year, whereas they now have established agencies all over the Dominion, and in New York and London, and are expending an enormous €um yearly in keeping up those agercies. They will have to persuade the stockholders of the Bank of Montreal that they are in danger of ruin and loss before they can persuade the people of this country that they are inTdanger, because there has been necessarily an in- creased expenditure owing to the increased area of this country. Sir, there have been necessary expenditures, because we have had large undertakings which were neoes* eary to our very existence, and we have bad a great struggle to accomplish this purpose ; but, Sir, we have suc- ceeded, and the liabilities arising out of that have been placed upon us earlier than we anticipated. We entered into au engagement to construct the Canadian Pacific .Rail- way, and have it completed in 1S91 ; but circumstances made it desirable, in the interest of the country, for this House to hasten the completion of that great work. Well, it is almost completed, and, as I have shown the House, the burdens for interest are not unduly pressing upon this'oountry. We have come out of our operations with far less burden per head than pressed upon the United States when they came out of their struggle. They are now reducing their indebtedness. We also have accomplished our purpose, and will 71 take the opportnnity of retrieving and improving our position. And, Sir, we shall do that ; we shall rest from oar labors, and shall give oar attention to reducing the indebtedness of oar country, and wilhont andulj taxing the people. Sir, I spoke of the Canadian Pacific Bailway. They have accomplished a great work, and we have assisted {hem. Anhon.MBMBER No. ' . > -^ .'■ .... . ■ . ..>.•--' . .. Mr. MoLELAN. Mr. Speaker, I remember the dis- oaasion in this House, when it was said that we were giving them everything, and I thiuk the echoes of some of those speakers still linger in the corners of the ceiling, when it was declared that all we were doing for them was a gift, And that the loan of $35,000,000 which we made to them would never be repaid to the country. It was only last year when they came here and asked that we should allow them to issue bonds to the amount of $35,000,000 and take |20,000,r00 of this as security for $20,000,000 of our indebt- edness, aad put the other $10,000,000 upon lands in the North- West, looking to them only for it, and that we should loan them $5,000,000 more. Atthat time the gentleman who Bays " no," perhaps, or some one beside him, said it was only another gift of $5,000,000 to the Canadian Pacific . Bailway, and that it would neve be returned. Sir, we did, in the interest of the country, adopt that proposition, and $9,000,000 was left upon lands, and they sold their bonds and paid us the $5,000,000. They have gone on and ziearly bronght to completion that great work. But, Sir, we kno^ that there are a great many things to be done in order to make that work a oomplete success. The termini of that road have been spoken of as being at Liverpool and Hong Kong, and it is desirable, in the interest of this -country, that they should be enabled to make that com- munication between Liverpool and the eastern countries. n They say to as : It is difficult for us to do it because nearly all the money we have raised from that $15,000,000 is exhausted in our undertaking ; you now hold a mortgage upon all our lands, and we are unable to raise any money upon them. It will be known to hon. gentlemen that last year great pressure was brought to bear upon members of the House that we should give up that lien upon the whole of the lands and take a certain portion of the lands, leaving th& rest free for the company to raise money upon. They oome again and ask us to do the same thing. They represent that a great expenditure is necessary to make the proper connections east and west snd efficiently equip the road, and they ask us to take a certain portion of that land as payment for the lien we hold upon the land, and upon the land only, and leave them to deal with the rest for their own- benefit. Well, Mr. Speaker, we have consideied that mat* ter. We iiave weighed it carefully, and we have thought that— having aided and assisted the Canadian Pacific Bail- way Company to accomplish so much, to obtain a standing and footing in the money markets of the world, and to ba recognised as a great and powerful company, that has accomplished a work of Imperial importance, that it can well stand alone, can well work out its own destiny and accomplish its own purposes. And we have thought it to be in the interests of that company and in th& interests of the country at large if we were to remove th& lien that extends over the whole of the Canadian Pacific Bailway lands and take a certain portion which w& oonbider of the value of 89,000,000. We have said to- the Canadian Pacific Bailway Company : Gentlemen, this is the position of things. Now that you are strong and powerful, able to walk alone, now that yoa have shown to the world the importance of this great undertaking, let us close all accounts, let us make a full and complete settlement. You take your lands and JP w raise what money you require to meet your purposes and we will take a portion of those lands and hold them and dispose of them for the purpose of meeting the balance of the loan after paying $20,000,000 in cash. And, Mr. Speaker, I am able to announce to the House that arrf.ngements have been made by which the com- pany agree to accomplish that purpose and to pay us $20,000,000 in cash, one-half in May and one-half on or before 1st July, and enable U3 to close all accounts with the Canadian Pacific Bailway Company and receive our $20,000,000 that we may provide for our floating indebtedness and have spare cash in the Treasury and not be under the necessity of increasing our liabil- ities. We were told time and again that, the 'money and aid we were giving to that company were gifts, and would prove an entire loss to the country. But we believed otherwise, and the result has proved we were right in placing faith in that work and in those who managed it. When we receive that money we shall be able to pay ofi' all that sum of $14,000,000 of floating debt, and be able to turn our attention to the older Provinces. The House and the country know that a large portion of the time and atten- tion of the Government has been given to the North* West and the Canadian Pacific Bailway, perhaps to the neglect of some of the older Provinces, and we think it is desirable in the interests of the older Provinces that the attention of the Government should be given to them, and that the Canadian Pacific Bailway now being on its feet should work out its own destiny. We have advanced so far, and at the earliest possible day I »huii buomit lur i e approval of the House a proposition to carry out this undertaking and enable ns to settle all accounts with the Canadian Pacific Bailway Company, and to receive the money that is repre- sented by the $20,000,000 of bonds which the Government 1i boll. I think taking the whole position we have oaase for congratalation. We have cause for oongratnlation that we have done so maoh and not imposed more burdens upon thii oountry, and that we have gone through with our part of the undertaking and not suffered more inconvenience than we have done . Sir, we all deeply regret the condition of affairs during the past season; we deeply regret the outbreak in the North-West; we regret the loss of life that was occasioned by it; but if we ' ) to believe the words of hon. gentlemen opposite even that has done us good. The House will remember, and will remember with admiration, the speech which the hon. gentleman opposite made in the absence of his leader — the speech which he made when he came out from the shadow of party* ism and spoke as a man and a Canadian . He said : " Sir, people respect those whom they fiad to be able to fight for their own land and to defend their own oountry. Oar conduct has been watched and scrutinised on both sides of the Atlantic, and there is no doubt whatever in my mind— I say it frankly— that we stand before the nations of the world in a better position to-day than we did three or four months ago on that single score." Even that ocouirrence, the hon. gentleman says, has done us good. Tes, we came back from that fight lamenting the . death of those who fell in the defence of their oountry ; but we came back without a permanent wound or disfigure- ment, or without bei'Jg dismembered; we came back wearing no empt> i^^eeve, but with both our good arms tried and strengthened and skilled to carry forward the banter of our country and to work out a grau^ destiny for ourselves among the nations of tho earth. Mr. Speaker, I beg to move that the House resolve itself into Committee of Ways and Means on the following resolutions : — 1. Reiolved, That it is expedient to proride that the following ratei of duty shall be assessed and collected on each of the articles hereiaafter named, and to repeal all Acts or parts of Acts now in force, in so far as they provide for assessing and collecting any different rates of duty than the rates hereby provided, or which are inconsistent therewith :— 16 1. i. 8. 4. 6. 7. 8. 9. 10. 11. 12. 13. 14. 15. 16. 17. 18. 19. 20. 21. 22. 23. 24. 25. Almoada, ihelled, a specific duty of 5 centi per lb. Almondt, not shelled, and nnts of all kindi not elsewhere specified, a specific duty of 3 cents per lb. Baking powder, a specific duty of 6 cents per lb. Boxes, oases and writing desks, fancy and ornamental, and fancy manufactures of bone, shell, horn and Ivory, alio dolls and toys of all k nds and materials, ornaments of alabaster, spar, terra cotta or composition, stataettes, beads and bead ornamentsi 30 per cent, a J valortm. Bolts, nuts, washers and rivets of iron or steel, a specific duty of 1 cent per lb. anl 16 prr cent, ad valorem. Blueing— Laundry blceing of all kindj, 25 per cent, ad valor0m. Cider, a specific duty of 10 cents per . uperial gallon. Oordage — Manilla and sisal cordage oi all kinds, a specific duty of 1} cents per lb. and 10 per cent, ad valonm. Deieiccated cocoanut, tweetened or not, a specific duty of 6 cents pet lb. Feat'jers, ostrich and ynlture, undressed, 20 per cent, ad valortm. Featherf , ostrich and rultare, dressed, 30 per cent, id valorem. Fnilt, dried, viz. : — Raisins, a specific duty of 1 cent per lb. and 10 per cent, ad valorem. Fruit, dried, riz. : — Currants, dates, figs, prunes, and all other dried fruits not elsewhere specified, a specific duty of 1 cent per lb. Fruit, green, viz. :— Blackberries, gooseberries, raspberrifH and strawberries, a specific duty of 4 cents per lb., the weight of the package to be included in the weight for duty. Peaches, a specific duty of 1 cent per lb., the weigh) ' ol tke package to be included in the weight for duty. Oimps, cords, braids, ribbons and binding", when imported by hat manufacturers for use in their factories, IS per cent, ad vuljr$m. Qas, water and soil pipes of cast iron, 30 per cent, advalorfm. Olores and mitts of all kinds, 30 per cent, ad valorem. Hair cloth of all kinds, 30 per cent, ad valorem. Harness and saddlery of every description, and parts of the same, 30 per cent, ad valorem. Laces, braids, friuG^es, embroideries, cords, tassels and bracelets ; also braids, chains or cords of hair, 30 per cent, ad valorem. Lead pipe and lead sho^ a specific duty of 1^ cents per lb. Oleomargarine, butterlne or o\her substitute for butter, a specific duty of 10 cents per lb. Printed or dyed cotton fabrics, not elsewhere specified, 27^ per eent. ad valorem. Spirits and strong waters, not having been sweetened or mixed with any article so that the degree of strength thereof cann it be n 2fi 27 28. ascertained by Syke»' hydrometer, for every Imperial gallon of the strength of proof of Bucb hydrometer, and so in proportion for any greater or less strength than the strength of proof, and for every greater or less quantity than a gallon, viz : Geneva gin, rum, whiskey, alcohol or spirits of wine, and unenumerated, un- mixed and not sweetened spirits, by whatever name called, a specific duty of $l.7S per Imperial gallon. '>ld Tom gin, a specific duty of $1.90 per Imperial gallon, bt-irits and strong waters, mixed with any i. gredieut or ingre* dients, and although thereby coming under the denomination of proprietary medicines^ tinctures, easencos, extracts or any other denomination, including medicinal elixirs and fluid extracts, whethtr in bulk or bottle, not elsewhere specified, shall be never- theless deemed to be spirits or strong waters, and subject to duty as such, a specific duty of $2 per Imperial gallon and SO per cent, ad valorem. Cologne water and perfumed spirits in bottles or flasks, not weigh, ing more than 4 ounces each, 60 per cent, ad valorem. 29. Cologne water and perfumed spirits in bottles, fiisks or otLer pack- ages, weighing more than 4 ounces each, a specific duty of $3 per Imperial gallon, and 40 per cent, ad valorem.. Tubing, wrought iron, plain, 2 inches in diameter or under, coupled and threaded, or not, 30 per cent, ad valorem. Whips of all kinds, 30 per cent, ad valorem. Wire, iron or steel, galvanised or not, 15 gauge and coarser, 20 per cent, ad valorem. 33. Wire-fencing, buckthorn, strip and other similar fencing wire of iron or steel, a specific duty of 1} cents per lb. Teast cakes and compressed yeast in packages or bulk, of 1 lb. and over, a specific duty of 6 cents per lb. Teast cakes in packages of less than 1 lb., a specific duty of 8 cents per lb. Portland and Roman cement to be classed with all other cement at specific rates as now provided. 37. On sugar, melado, concentrated melado, concentrated canejuice, concentrated molasses, concentrated beet root juice and concrete, when imported direct from the counti-y of growth and produc- tion, for refining purposes only, not over No. 13 Dutch standard in color, and not testing over 70 degrees by the polarlscope test, a specific duty of 1 cent per lb. , and for every additional degree, or fraction of a degree shown by polarlscope test, 3^ cents per 100 lbs. additional. 38. On sugar not for refiaiog purposes, not over No. 13 Dutch stnndard in color, when imported direct from the country of growth and production, a specific duty of 1 cent per lb , and 30 per cent ad 30. 31, 32 3i 35. 36 77 39. 40. valoiem on the value thereof free od board at the last port of (hipment. Oa all sugars above No. 13 Datch standard in color, and on refined sugar of all kinds, grades or standards, 1^ cents per lb , and 36 per cent ai valonm on the value tiiereof free on board at theUst port of shipxent. On all sugars not imported direct without transshipment from the country of growth and production, there shall be levied and collected an additional duty of 7} per cent, of the w bole duty so otherwise payable thereon. Provided that when any cargo of sugar for refining \ K-poses is found to grade, to the extent of not over IS per cent, of the whole, above No. 13 Dutch Standard in color, the whole of said cargo may be admitted to enter by polariscope test as above provided for refining purposes only. 41. Syrups, cane jaice, refined syrup, sugar house syrup of sugar house molasses, ayrup of sugar, syrup of molasses or sorghum, whether imported direct or not— a specific duty of 1 cent per lb. and 30 per cent, ad valorem. 42. Molasses, other, when imported direct without transhipment and from the country of growth and production— 15 per cent, ad valortm. 43. Molasses when not so imported— 30 per cent ad valorem. The value upon which the ad valorem duty shall be levied and col« leoted upon all the above*named syrups and molasses shall be the value thereof free on board at the last port of shipment. 44. Provided that molasses, when imported for or received into any refinery or sugar factory, or to be used for any other purpose th%n actual consumption, shall be subject to, and the. ' shall be levied and collected thereon, an additional duty of 6 cents per Imperial gallon. Provided that the change in the rates of duty on sugars and molasses flhall fcpply OQly ^o importations arriving in Canada on and after the Slat day of March instant^ and not to sneh articles warehoused prior to that date. 46. Sugar candy, brown or white, and confectionery, a specific duty of 1^ cents per lb. and 35 per cent, ad valorem. 2. Resolved, That it is expedient to amend Schedule "B," being the list of goods which are entitled to entry free of duty when imported to Canada, by substituting the following provisions for the corresponding items now contained therein : — 1. Articles for the personal use of Consuls General who are natives or ci-tizens of the country they represent and who are not engaged in any other business or profession. 2. Borax, in lump. 78 8. Grease, the refuse of ftnimal fat. 4. Iron aad steel, old and serap, uat nothing shall be deemel scrap iron or steel except waste or refuse iron or stebl that Lhs been in actual use and fit only to be remanafactared. 6. Sumac, crude. 3. Rttolved, That it is expedient to strike out the following article* from the list of goods which may be entered free of duty when imported into Canada, tIe :— 1. "Iro.i sand or globules, and dry putty for polishing granite." 2. "Ottar of roses." 8. "Philosophical instruments and apparatus, including globes and," 4. Rttolved, That it is expedient to amend Schedule " D," relating to prohibited articles, by striking out the item relating to copyright works, and s'lbstitnting the following in lieu thereof, viz. :— Reprints of Oinalian copyright works, aad reprints ot' British copy- right works which have bsen also copyrighted in Canada. 8. Reiolvedt That it is expedient to provide that an Excise duty of 8 cents per lb. be levied and collected on all oleomargarine, butterir. e or other substitute for butter manufaotured in Canada. 6. Setolvid, That is expedient to provide that the foregoing resolu- tions, and the alterations made in the daties of Customs aad Excise on the articles therein mentionei, shall take e£fect upon and after the 31st of March instant. Printed by MacLeaui Roger k Co.| Parliamentary Printers, Ottawa.