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 REPOBT 
 
 UPON 
 
 E SWEATING SYSTEM 
 
 CANADA 
 
 PRINTED BY ORDER OF PARLIAMENT 
 
 OTTAWA 
 
 PRINTEP BY &. E, DAWatlTS, J?RINTBR TO THE QUEEN'S MOST 
 EXCELLENT MAJESTY 
 
 1896 
 
r.EPoin^ 
 
 II'OS 
 
 THE SWEATIXd S^'STEM IX CANADA 
 
 [61" 
 
 coM^nssroN 
 
 A[>iM)intii)i;- Albxandkr Wiivte AVurmiT, KsqniiT, a Commi.s>>ioner to inquire 
 wiictluT. and if so, to what extent tlie sweating system is [iractiscd in tlio 
 various industrial eentres of the Dominion, and for other purposes. Dated 
 20tli October, 18!t5. Recorde<l lith November, 18ii5. L. A. Cateixiku, 
 Deputy Registrar < General of Canada. 
 
 CANADA. 
 
 llENiiv Sii!(>\(i, D'piitij (; 
 
 ori'Viior. 
 
 VicTonf.v, by tlie Grace of (iod, of the United Kingdom of Gieat Uritain and Ireland, 
 Queen, I )efender of tiie I'aitli. iV'c, i^'c, ki\ 
 
 To Alkvandku WiiviK W'uioMT, of till,' 'I'own of Niagara, in the Province of Ontario, 
 in OwY Dominion of Canada, and to all to whom the same may come, — (JiiKinixo : 
 
 Whereas a i-esuhition was adopted by the Dominion Tiad(\-; and l>al)oni' (^^m^'ress at 
 its recent meeting in the City of London in tiie Pro'inco of Ontario, h(,'ld in tin; month 
 of September last past, in the following' terms : 
 
 ' In consideration of the petition of the Toronto (Garment "Workci's, in reference to 
 the sw(^ating system in Toronto and ^bjntreal. we deem it of uryimt necessity that a 
 Connnission l)u api)ointed to itucstigate to what extent the system is practised in To- 
 ronto, Hiimilton and iNb)ntreal, as a test of the whole Dominion.'" 
 
 And whereas it is deemed exjiedient to investigate into tlu^ matter referred tf> in the 
 said resolution, an<l to inquire whether, and if so, to what extent the sweating system 
 is practised in the various industrial centres of the Dominion of Canada, and at the 
 same time to procure information respecting the kindred (juestion of wages and any 
 other matters allecting the employment and conditions of life and labour among the 
 in<kistrial classes-- 
 
 Now ivnow Ye that, l)y and with the ad\ ice i>f < )ur Pri\y Council for Canada, 
 A\'e, I'eposing trust and confidence in your loyalty, integrity and ability, have nominated, 
 constituted and apjininted, and do hm'eby nominate, constitute ami appoint you, the 
 said Alexantler W'iiytt' Wright, to b(; Our Ctinnnissioner for the purpose (jf investigating 
 into the matter referred to in the said resokition before mentioned, and to inquire 
 whethei', and if so, to what extent the sweating system is practised in the various in- 
 thisti'ial centres of the Dominion, and at the same time to procure information respect- 
 ing the kindred (luestion of wages and any other matters affecting the (•nq>loyment and 
 conditions of life and labour among the industrial classes, and We do. under antl by- 
 virtue of the powers vested in Us by Chaptei' 11 1 of the Revised Statutes of Canada, 
 61—1 
 
intituled "An Act respecting in(|uiries concerning public matters," and hy nncl with 
 the like advice confer upon you as such Connnissionor the power of sunnnoning before 
 you any witnesses, and of retjuiring tlioni to produce such docuintMits and tilings as yon, 
 Our said Cdnniiissioner, shall deem re(|uisito to the full in\('stigati(jn of the matters 
 into which you are hereby appointed to "xaniine. 
 
 To ha\e, hold, exorcise and enjoy tie; said otlice, ])laceand trust unto you, the said 
 Alexander Whyte Wright, together with tlie rights, powers, privileges and emoluments 
 unto the s:iid olllce, jilace and trust of righi and by law a|ipertiiiniMg duiinii' ]ileasure. 
 
 And we do iiereby re([uire and direct you to repcjrt to our Seer'ctacy of States of 
 Canada the result of your investigations, together with the evidence taken before you 
 and any oiiinion or renuirks you may see lit to make thereon. 
 
 In Testimony whereof we have caused these Our Letters to be maih; Patent, and the 
 (Jreat Seal of Canada to be hereunto alUxed. Witness the Honourable Sir 
 Henry Strong, Knight, Deputy of our Right Trusty and IJight Well beloved 
 Ccjusin and Councilk)r 1\h'. Right Jlonourabhs Sir John Campbell Jlamilton 
 Gordon, Earl of Aberdeen, \'iscount Formartine, iiaron Hiiddo, Methlic, 
 Traves and Kellie, in the Peerage of Scotland, \Mscourt Ooidon of ^\bordeen. 
 County of .Vberdeen, in the Peerage of the I'nited Kii gdoni, itaronetof Nova 
 Scotia, Knight Grand Cross of Our Most Distinguished Order of Saint Michael 
 and Saint Geoi'ge, etc., etc., Governor General of Canada. 
 
 At Our Government House, in Ouv City of Ottawa, this Twenty-ninth 
 day of October, in the year of (Jur Lord one thousand eight hundred 
 and ninety-five, and in the Fifty-ninth year of Our lvei,i;n. 
 
 By Conunaii('. 
 
 L. A. CATELLIEH, 
 
 Under Secretary of State. 
 
 E. L. NEWCOMBE, 
 
 Deputy Afinister <>/ Jitsfire. 
 
 To the Honourable Sir Ciiarlks Tuim-eh, Bart., G.C.M.G., C.B,, 
 
 Secretary of State. 
 
 Sui, — As connnandeil in the Coninn.ssion under the Great Seal, bearing date the 
 29th day of October last past, appointing me a Connnissioner " to inijuire whether, and 
 if so, to what extent the sweating system is practised in the various industrial centres of 
 the Dominion, and at the same time to piocure information respecting the kindred 
 question of wages and other matters afiecting the employment and conditions of life 
 and labour anujng the industrial classes " I beg leave to submit to you my I'tsport. 
 
 Inasnmch as the time allowed me for the completion of my investigation, as stated 
 in the letter from your department which accompanied my commission, was limited to 
 ninety days, I deemed it inadvisable either to attempt to make an exhaustive investiga- 
 cion of all shops and other places which might be considered as being embraced within 
 the scope of my incjuiry, or to endeavour to ascertain, except in a general way, the rates 
 of wages paid. Even had my time been unlimiied, it is doubtful whether detailed and 
 accurate statistical information, of the kind last referred to, could be obtained by a 
 temporary connnission. Infoi'mation concerning the wages paid and the conditions of 
 labour found to obtain in a few establishments could not be depended upon to indicate, 
 with any degree of accuracy, what the general conditions or wages might be. The 
 publication of incompleti information might result in serious wrong either to those 
 whose establishments were reported upon or to their competitors in business. I visited 
 large numbers of factories, workshops and dwellings in which work was being carried 
 on, conversing both with employers and employees, but though I gathered, in this way, 
 
n 
 
 J 
 
 a ^'reat deal of information hoiu'iiig uputi till' luaitfis uridi'i- invoatiyation, I liuvc n(.t 
 (IfM'ii.cd it. ('X|)(Mli('nt. to int'iilioii naint's in tliis ri'imri, ; indi'fd \ found it iicccssiuy in 
 s('\fi'ul instiincrs lu L(i\e an fusiiraiic(! that no nanirs would lie inadn jiid)lic, in oidt'i" to 
 obtain information. 
 
 'J'o avoid dan^'iu' of niisa])|)n'linnsiiin it may ho as wi-ll to stato hero tliat T liavo not 
 attompti'd to dclino the moaning of th^^ torm " Swcit in:,' sysl 'in." Jsvon amonj^ those 
 who havd mado a sjit'cial study of (luostions .iiroi'tin;,' laliour ami tiio lalxiurin;.' classes, 
 thor(! aro wivlely \arying oiiinions a.stolho mcanini,'(if tiio nuich used torm, th<! difioi'ing 
 dclinitions l)oin,i,' almost as nuniorouH as the men wh(> fjivo thorn. It has ijuen dolinod 
 as " thosystom of makirii,' clothini,' und<'r lilliiy and iidnunMii condilions "' ; as '■ woi'k 
 sont out hy a first contr/u'tor to iio doiio in tonomont houses or in iho hoin(;s of the 
 opoi'ativos " ; as '"a coml)ination of the toiujuient liouso system, the sul)-oontraot .system 
 and the task system '' ; as " wliorovor men are omployod at low wa{,'es and indor un- 
 healthy conditions"; as '• i,'rindini,' the faces of the poor," etc., etc. As a matter of 
 fact thoro is not in any country, coitainly not in Canada, any system coextonsi\e with 
 the poj)ular use of the term "sweating system." Tin- woi'ds have I'oally no dodnite 
 moaning, for there are no conditions foutid in all the cases in which the torm i.s appiiod, 
 •which are not also to he found in numerous other cases to which it is not apjilif^l. The 
 confusion arising from the dill'ering meanings which each witness attached to the torm, 
 a[)pears to have been, in no small degree, responsible for the apparently rand)ling nature 
 of the answers given to the upwards of thirty-two thousutid (juostions, put by the Com- 
 mission (/f the lii'itish House of Fiords, to the witnesses who appeared before it. 
 Uoali/ing that any attempt on my jiai't to act upon an arbitrary dclinition of the tei'm 
 " sweating system " would oidy hinder the inquiry, I have avoided this and conducted 
 the investigation on nioi'e general grounds. For this reason whenever in this report 
 the words are used they are not to be undoistoinl as haxiiig a deliiuto meaning. 
 
 In Croat Dritain there are a considerable nundjerof trades in winch the "sweating 
 system " obtains. Besides the clothing tirade, the distress in which was the immediate 
 oct:asion of the ajipointment of the Lords' (.Commission, the chain and nail trade, the mit 
 and bolt trade, the boot trade and the, cabinet making industry are all in a greater or 
 lesser degree oi'ganized t)n the contract and sub-cctnti'.ict jilan. In the L'nited States 
 the system is not so wide!}' distributed and is confined to the various branches of the 
 clothing trade, the making u]i of fui' and feather goods and the manufacture of cigars 
 and cigaL'cttos. The excise laws of tiui Dominion efiectually prevent the inti'odui;-tion of 
 the "sweating system" into the cigar industry in (Janada, liut the conditions ol)taining 
 in the clothing and fur trades and in making of shirts, neckties and .some other goods 
 are so sinular hero and in tlie republic that it would be natui'al to expect that like 
 methods of manufacture would prevail. I have consideretl it advisable, theioforo, 
 having regard to the limited time at my disposal, and believing that I would thus be 
 m. iking my inquiries in the quarter in which i iformation would bo most likely to be 
 obtainaljle, to I'onfine my investigation to the industries mentioned. 
 
 I directed my ellbrts to oi)laining information under tlu' following heads : — 
 
 1. Do the several manufacturing concerns manufacture their goods in factories of 
 their own ; give them out to contractors who have shops and employ workmen ; or do 
 they give them out directly to people who make them up in their own homes ? 
 
 2. In those establishments in which moio than one of these .systems pre\ail, under 
 which of them is the greater part of the work done ' 
 
 3. Do manufacturers get their work done more cheaply or better by giving it out 
 to contractors than they do when they have factories of their own ? 
 
 4. When the work is given out either to contractors or to people who work at 
 home, is there usually an agreement as to the pricjes to be paid — e.g., an agreement 
 covering a period of time — or is the price fixed at the time the goods are given out ; 
 and, if the latter, is the fixing of the price deputed u) some foreman or employee 1 
 
 5. Have manufacturers any tigi-eement or understanding with each other as to the 
 prices they will pay for the making of goods they give out to contractors, or as to the 
 wages they will pay in their factories ? 
 
 61— U 
 
(i. |1i( iiiunnFiiclliiors jiay tlic simic |iri(i's for similar W(mI< to coiil rufturs wim liii\(« 
 simps lis I lic\ (III (ci |i(ii|)l(' wiio liikc \v(iri< In lif (luiic in t iicir ow n lioincs ' 
 
 7. !•(> iiuiiiut'iirturtM'.s niai<(! iUiy fll'nil to l;i'('|i lliciMsci\cs intm imd a-, lo (he waycs 
 paid iiy roiitraclois wlio lake work t'roin liicm .' 
 
 S, Arc tiinc any orLjiiiii/atioiis oi' coniiiinatioiis aninni; iln' ((inlraciois wiiusc 
 ol)jfH'l is to lix or rc;,aikil(' till' pritcs at whicli work will he takrn liy tlicni from wIioIh- 
 siilc uianufiii'tiMcrs : or for I lie )iuipos(; of cotitroilin;,' lli(i wayi's or prices for [lit-rc work 
 to l)f paid to tlii'ir own cmpjoyfcs ( 
 
 ',1. What an' the sanitary conditions of tlic sjiops in wliicli yoods arc made up under 
 cnnlrai-i .' ho tlie nianiifact wiers make any ell'orl to inform tlicnisches as to (his .' 
 
 jn. 'I'd what extent, if at all. does the practice prevail ainonu cont rai.'tois of usin';' 
 the shops or rooms in wjiich they work as sleepini; rooms for theii' familic^s,' 
 
 II. I lave infect ioiis (liscast's liceii spread hy means of ^armcnls made in contrac- 
 tors' shops or iiiisate houses I 
 
 \'2. To \\lial extent docs the sub-iont ract inu' system pi-e\ail ? 
 
 1 ;!. I >oes t he cont ract system ohtain to any extent in 1 1 h' custom oi' oi dered clot hi tiL; 
 tnulo. or is it conllneii to the rc;idy -made I'lolhinu husincss .' 
 
 14. l)o custom or merchant tailors Lic'tierally ha\e workshops nn their jircmises, oi 
 do tlieii' employees take work home to Ik' theif made u|i \\ilh the assistance of their 
 fjimilics ? 
 
 1"). I >ocs t he cont rael system result in re(lucin;,' waijes and in Iowcimiil; I hi- con- 
 dit ions of lahour '.' 
 
 III. Aic there many shojis or pl.ices, in which manufacturing' is carried on. which 
 do not come under the provision-- of the l'"act<)ries Ai'ts, because of not, having the 
 requisite number of (^nijiloyces? 
 
 17. ts it the practice to enijiloy in such shops or [)laces children who are under the 
 factories an'c ; ;ind do wouhmi and children, employed in such shops or places, worlc more 
 hours per day or week tlwin is permitted under the I'actories Acts 't 
 
 15. In such sliops or places are the conditions often or usmdly unsanitary? 
 
 111. All' the lar;^('r shops, by reason of having to comply with (he provisions of the 
 Factories Ads, placed at a dis.'id vantagii as comjiared w ith such sm.iller shops or plaei'S 1 
 
 20. Arc the provisions of the Factories Acts satisfu(;tt))'ily enforced and do th(^ Acts 
 give general sat,isfacti(^n in their working? 
 
 'Jl. ..Vre till' provisions of the .\cts sulliiiently coiiipreheii-~i\(' to ensure eiler/tiial 
 inspection and regulation of all shops ;ind places w here tin; cont ract or " sweating system" 
 might be carried on .' 
 
 ■Jl'. Is it believed that, by i-eason of their having to comply with the provisions 
 of the Factories Acts, emiiloyers in the provinces in which such acts arc in force; arc 
 placed at a disachantage as (.ompared with eni))loyers in other provinces? 
 
 l'3. If stringent laws were enacted in any one province to |ircvent or suppress the 
 "sweating system " would such leL:islalion be likely to transi'er the trade to other 
 pi'ovinces '( 
 
 '2\. If stringent |)ominion legislation were enacted for this purp<ise would it be 
 likely to transfer the business to other cotuitiies ? 
 
 125. if for the jairjxjse of preventing or su]ipiessing the "sweating system ' legisla- 
 tion were enacted fecpiiring that clothing should lie labelled or ticketf^d to show whether 
 it was m.'ide in a factory, a contractor's shop or a dwelling, would such legislation have 
 the cfVect intended and would it be prejudicial to business or otherwise ? 
 
 •JG. Would it be practical and useful to i-eijuin; that a license should be taken out 
 by the owner of each factory, shop or other i>liicc where clothing or othtn- goods is made 
 under contract, for the purpose of ensuring projicr supervision and in.spection ? 
 
 27. Ts the tendency, judged by the experience of recent year.s, toward a higher or 
 l(5wer I'ate of wages ? 
 
 28. in such trades or divisions of trades as show a tendency towai-d higher wages 
 does the tendency a])pear to be due to combination.^ among the workmen, to better 
 jiriccs for the finished goods, to a scarcity of competent workmen, oris it to b(! accounted 
 for in any other way 1 
 
 
 
ll.'lN ( 
 
 coil 
 
 ; the 
 
 liiue 
 
 i 
 
 1 
 
 i 
 
 n 
 
 •_".). W licif wiii,'t!.s or pficrs fur inukiti;,' lia\»' I'lillfn, or sliuw ;i tfinlcnry (n r'all, Ims 
 tliis lict'M, or is it, lim- to I'oniiPt'tition inn.mg contnictors or svorkiiuMi, to rfdiii'cd prions 
 tor tlic linislicd Lioods. to iIk- iisi- of inipicucil iiijuldiH'ry find .iiPiiliaiui's, tu di\i->ioii und 
 oi'naiii/.iitiori ot' lidiour, to coiiiliiiiiilioMs uiiinii'^' ciiiiilovfrs, nr to any iplhcr s|ircilic reason 
 or reasons ( 
 
 ■'?(). Have waiii's lici'ii alli'ctcd liy iiniuinration oi liy llw lit iiiLriiii; in of uorkincn 
 from forcii,Mi ' uiilrics l»y ('iii|iloyi'rs. under nintraets iiiadi- aliroad ! 
 
 .'11. To vv liat extent (joeN llie a|i|iteiit ii'i'.|ii|i sysleiii prevail, and in uiial (le;{r('t' 
 an; wa^es all'ected liy it .' 
 
 .'il'. Ill shops or faetorii^s iloi'sliie pioci! work sy.Ntein ;,'eneraily prevail or are the 
 employees f;enerally paid hy the day or week ; an<i if the latter, i- it usual in lix a stint 
 or task as a day s work .' 
 
 •'>."i. hues the piece wdik system prevail more v'''iierally aiiioiii; male nr fi'iiialo 
 (employees ', 
 
 '•U. Leavin;; children out of the caii.'ulai imi do pi hand- or d;iy hands, as a rule, 
 
 receive tlie hij;her waues .' 
 
 .■{."). I low many hours, i;eiierally. const iiiiie a (hiv s work .' 
 
 ;{(). l)oes till! system of tininn' for impi'ifect oi jiartially spuiled work [irevaii to any 
 exteii* .' 
 
 .'57. Ale th'-re a "greater or lesser iimnher (if idliMiien in the trade now I han formerly ; 
 that is in recen'/ years, and if the nunilier is !.'reater. lias this hen (hie to a decrease in 
 tlu! demand for ;joods. to improved machinery or changed methods of iiiiinufacture, or 
 to tlio mimher nf workers in the trade haxini; increased more r.'ijiidly than the tleiiiaiul 
 for their s{>r\iifs : ami, if the latter, has the relative increasi; in the numlior of the 
 \v()rkers heen tlue to immigration, or has it heen owiiiij; to too many of the native or 
 r-esident population I'litering the trade.' 
 
 lis. To what extent has female lahoui' displaced male lahour. or child lahour taken 
 the place of adult lahour .' 
 
 .'5!). Does it siaiietiuK^s or fretpiontly happen that there is a scarcity of workfM's in 
 .some towns or cities and a surplus in others at the same time? 
 
 40. To what e.xtent has the tenement house work slio[i system nlitained a fo.itliold 
 in (^anada '. 
 
 l'"or the jnirpose of ohtainin;;' information niider liiese se\'eral heads I visited factor- 
 ies. Workshops and privali' dwelliiiijs, making; in'|uiiies of hoi h iiiiploveis and euiployi'es, 
 and personally inspec:ted the condition of the shops and other places in which work is 
 doiwi. I also addressed, to employers and others, lists of such (piestioiis as I helieved each 
 W(nild be best able to giv(> inforiiiation upon. It sides tliesi; means -for tlu- purpose of 
 i;ettini;- a very full ex])ressii)n of the views and o|iinions of the classes immediately and 
 particularly interesteil — I adopteil the plan of holding; a moetimj; in Toronto to which I 
 invited the manufacturers, contractors and other employers, and also committees of th(! 
 se\eral oin'ani/ations of employees enj,'a,i,'ed in (he clothini; li'ade. At the meetings, 
 which were held on the evenings of the JSth and '.Mh of January, there were also [u'esent 
 by my invitation a committee of the 'I'oronto Trades and Labour Council and the three 
 Ontario Insjiectors of l<'iictories, resident in Toronto, .Mr. James 11. I'rown, .Mr. Uoiiert 
 iiarher and Miss Margaret Carlyle. I lia\"e apptmded a verbatim leiiort of tln^ proceed- 
 ings of these meetings. 
 
 So as to be able to compare the condition of tlie several industries in Canada, in 
 which thf^ "sweating .system '' might be expected to be practised, with the conditions 
 which obtain in similar industries in the I'nited States, T jilaced myself in communica- 
 tion witii Fiictories Inspectors, Coniniissioners of Labour and other olilcials in the 
 several States of the L'nion, and attemh'd a meeting of the American l''ederation of 
 Labour held in the City of New York in I^ecember last. I also visited a number of 
 " sweat shops '" in Jersey City, N. J. The time occu|)ied in my work of inspection 
 covered a period of seventy nine days, from Octoljer 2'Jtli, to January li^tli, inclusive. 
 
 I iKjw proceed to give, [ trust with sutlicient circumstantiality, the result of my 
 inquiries under the several heads already enumerated ; — 
 
un 
 
 • tliis liciul t'nr I 111' irasDii t liai i 
 
 liolli .systems ii tlii>i'<iii;;li l.riiil 
 
 their own fiicturics uiiil tlioso 
 
 1. I I'lMil lliJil llic pi'iu'tict' iiiidii till- t'lT'^i liciid vui ic-. Suiiif iiiamit'iiriuiei's, 
 tlidiiyli only II Fi'w, liiiv«) all tlifir work duiic in fuctHrit-s nt' llifir nwn ; sninc huM- iliftii* 
 work (iniic liy coiid'iK'tiifs wlm liavc tlirir nwn \viii'k>liii|is ; ollii'is yisc it nut In |iin|il(( 
 will) iiiiikc it up ill their nwn hoiiieH ; while still ntheiw, iind t iie ;,'ie!iter miiiilier, lia\n it 
 dniii' piirlly ill all these ways. In 1 laiiiiltoli, for example, the jjicater part nt tlie woi'k 
 is done liy ('(niiraetorM iiiul the lialiiiice hy people who wnrk at home. In Toronto the 
 same system prev/iils, llioiitjh in that eily the pro|iortion ot' work done in pi i\ate houses 
 is 1,'reiiti'r, III ntlawa, Montreal and (jhieliee the contraet system scarcely exists ; I onlv 
 found six such ^hops in Montreal and none in eitiier of th« titlier eilius. In .Montrr'ul 
 there lire several ot' the manufaclui"iH wiio havi' fuctories of their own, hut in the three 
 cities last named the i;reater part of the work is done liy families in their hniiies. In 
 Halifax the proportion of facidiy work is greater hut there is a consideraiile (|iiaiitity of 
 ffoods made up in |iii\ate iioiises. In all cases the i^onds are cul oul cm the prnnises of 
 the wholesale inaiuifacl uier. 
 
 ■_'. As already said, the system \aiies, hut it may lie added that, except in Mon 
 t real and I lalifax and in some smaller towns, as I'liiitrOii, ( »iit .. for e\/imple. there is, 
 j)roportioiiately, very litth- factory work done; while only in I lamiltoii and ToKMito 
 does tiie I'oiit raotor.s' simp system obtain to any extent. 'I'houi^'li this is not an iiivari- 
 alile rule, it is 'generally true that \Wien manufacturers li.ive their work done in part hy 
 contractors and in part i»y families wmkini; at home, the liei icr ,iiid more liiL,dily paid 
 work, .su<'h as men's ooats, is made li\ the (iist, while pants anil \e-|s ,ire made in pri- 
 vate families. 
 
 l^. It is dillicull to Lcet. relialile inlormat imi uiidei 
 foun I no instance where a manufacturer had j,'i\eii 
 under similar condi' ions. I found that tlioso wholia\i' 
 who have ailopled t he cdiit laet .system each are of opinion that the nieihnd they have 
 chosen is the one liest calculated to promote their interests, hotli as to cheapness and 
 (juality of I h(i work. Almost in\arialily, however, thi' employees prefer the failory 
 system to workiim in t h(> com factors' shops. W'liei her the lielief is well tniiiK led or nut, 
 they are firmly of tlic^ opinion that; the eoiit ractinu,' system ti'iids iiie\ital)ly to the 
 lowerinj,' of wjiues and dcL;i'adini; t he conditions of lalioiir. 1 liase not lieen aMe to 
 obtain reliable data which will throw liu'ht ui)on this (picstion, for the reason that I did 
 not have an opportunity to compare the wa;;es and eoiiditioiis of labour in the case of 
 men omfjloyed at tlie same kinds of work in the same city, uiuler the two systems. A 
 
 eomparison when and wiiere the ( ditions were (piite dissimilar would, of cnurse, be 
 
 worthless, In t he iibseiice of st;itistics or other re|ial)l(> diila it may not, however, be 
 out of plac(! to mention some of the rea.sons which employee.s advance in sujipoi t of tlie 
 opinion that w.ii^'es and conditions nf labour are piejndicially afleeted by t he coiit ractin<; 
 system. The contractor, it is uryed. hciiiy immediately interested in uettini; the work 
 done cheaply, and bein<.,( contiiuially in close contact with I he employees, is able and 
 apt to resort to all kinds of methods to aeeomplish this. Jieiiii; usually loss prominent 
 in the public eye than the lar^'e manufacturer, and so less amenable to the deterrinfj 
 inlliience of public o])inion. it is arntied that he is less likely to be deterred from cuttiuL; 
 waives, if in other resjiects able to do so, and less likely also tii lia\e regard for the 
 health and comfort of his employees. The contractor,s' sliojis bc-ing small and only a 
 small number, comparatively, of employees workinit in them, it is more dilliciilt for the 
 workers to become organized for the purposi^ of keepintf up wa<,'es and maintaining' ytiod 
 conditions of empiloyment. It is urj^ed, too, that the contractors compet(( with each 
 other and with private families for w(uk, taking; it often at ruinously low rates, and 
 then must of net.'essity cut the wages to makc^ up for the loss s(j entailed. l5roadly it is 
 held by the employees that all the pi'olitthe contractor makes must come out of the sum 
 which would go t(j the workers as wages did they work directly for the manufacturer. 
 
 ■1. I'jxcept in the custom or ordered clothing trade there ajipears to be no agree- 
 nifMits made between empiloyers and employees, covering a pei'iod of time, as to wages 
 01' prices for making up goods. In the custom trade, whei'e the workmen arc; organized, 
 the eini)loyers and employees usually agree upon a scale of prices to remain in force for 
 a terra agi'eed upon, but neither in the ready-made clothing trade, the shirt industry, 
 
 i 
 

 llic liir ImsiiH'SM, iHif ill any nl' tin- diIi.t nt'ciiaiitidii-- I imiiiir.d inln, djil | linil .inytliinj^ 
 lit' lliis kiiii'. Till- |iriri' to III' |i;ii(l tur miikiiii.' tlir Mirioiix iirlirli-s is ii.sinilly siiitfil 
 when till' ;;(Mi(ls un- niNcn mil, it lu'iiij; lliiMluty nt' s.nni- mii' in the cnipluy nt' llii' iiiiiiiu- 
 fiK'tui't'i- tn lix tiic |MiiT. It, siM'iiis iiliiuisl itiovitiilili- lliJit siicli II systt'iii imist tcsiilt in 
 hiiiiU'iiiK tlio will,'!-' (Imwii til tilt' liiwi'Hi piiitii iit wliicli tlif ciuplnyi'cs I'nn ullurii tn work 
 — to wlmt. rriilliiiilisi s liiiM' (ii'sii.'liiitr(i tlic liiwi'-t, t'xi->ti'lli r |M»i|it. This l'i'-<llll, is 
 
 I'oiiili'iril llic IIIIIH' ccil.iiii liy tlif t'iict I li.il tin- si'|iiir'.ilic>ii nf tin' wurkors wlioco tlicy 
 work ill liirir nwn lionu's, innl ilic wuni of (•iiiiiliiniii idii (iiiniiiu: tlir ('(iiitiiu'tiprs, 
 
 JircVcllts ;i iu|ii|),iii on, liy tlirlii, nl' llic piici •■; iill'cnMi. 
 
 ">. I tiiiii III) ('\ iilciii'f lit' liny fiuri'i'iiii'iil, iiiKli'istuiidin;,' ni' niiiiliin.itinii imiuinf f lie 
 iniiiuit'iic'liin'is tor tin- |uir|iii--i' nt' ic^iulaiinu tin' inici's tn Ik,' |iiiiil t'nr iimkiii;,' i,'nu(|s ; 
 tlioii;,'li in till' wiiy nt' liiisiin".s tiicy iisuiilly U('c|i i ln'iiisches inl'ofmetl us tn (lif |iricos 
 ]i.ii(i liy I lii'ic i'niii|ii't it<irs. 
 
 li. I'nr I III' Niuiii' kiiiiis nr yindrs nt' \\nrk iiiiiiiut'iti'turt'is |i,iy tin' saiiH' iiiiccs w lie I in t 
 till'. iiiakiT is II cnntiiiilnr nr n |ici'snii wnrkiiii^ in liis or lii'i' own Imiiif ; Imt, i-^ iilii'iijv 
 stiiti'd, dill'i'fciil i^'iaiii's oi wmk air usually dnnti by tluHwd cliissi's. 
 
 7. I t'niiliil iin cvidrncr that till' iiiaiiutarl Ul'i'i's si'i'k to coiitinl nr in aiiv wav iii- 
 ti'fl'i'r.' wiili llii' waLTi'N paid liy llicii idiit rutin-, tu- (n kcfp t lii'iii^i'lvrs int'nrmi'd as to 
 the riiti! of wan'i'-; paid. Tlii' nlijcct ot sri'kinLf infmiiialinn iindi'i' tliis hrad was to 
 asccrtiiiii wlicllicr the wlmlcsali' inaiiutact iirri's al Iciiipli'd tn rr;,'iilatr I lir piii-i's to lio 
 paid by llicin in acforilaiu'i' with tlir wa^i's paid liy tlii' coiii rartnrs tn tlu'ir cinplnyiH's, 
 
 ''^. TIm' I'nntraclnrs liavi' nn nr;;anizat inns or cniiiliinat inns iif tln' I'Ciiiil siiu'i;i'sli'fl. 
 Al oiii! tiiiir the cniidarinrs in 'rnmnin had an nryani/atinii nr iininn, laii ii im Imiijer 
 exists. While it was in cxisiriu'i' it was flaiini'd, liy mii- ot' llinsi' prcsi'iil at the nit'nt- 
 inyalri'iidy I't't'i'i'i'iMJ In, that it iiltcmpli'd lo rrL;iilat<! the wa^os to Ik.' paid lo i-niployees, 
 /but this is diiiii'd. h diil atii'niiil tn le^Ltulaic in sniuf ineasuri' the prices at wliicli 
 work shniild be dnni' I'nr the \\ lin|e<ali'rs, liiit met svitli but little success, owiiiL; |)artly 
 tfi want of unaiiiniiiv ainniiL; its iiieinliei- and partl\' to llie prcssiiri' nt' cnnipftition oil 
 tlio part of non-ineiiiliers and of private faniilies, 
 
 '.), As a rule the sanitary eonditinn nf cniiiraetnrs' ^hn|is is i;nnd, thnuu'h there are 
 exceptions In t his rule. In ■■nini' of the slinp I \isited, while ii iiiii,'hi imt be alto- 
 ^etliL'i' correct to say thai lliey were in an unsanitary cniidiiinn. tlii'V were cerlainly fat' 
 t'rnin cleanly, and were neither wlmlesoine nor pleasant to work in. One in 'rnrniitn, in 
 whirh a number nf men. wnmeii and uirls were enj^aued in iiiakin;^ ladii's' ni.antJes and 
 cloaks, if not iinsanil.iry, must lia\e bordered very <'lnsely iipnii beinii so. In no ease 
 (lid I find that iiianiifaclur<'rs took any measure'' to keip iheni<el\e-, infmiiicd as tn tlie 
 I'onditioii of the shops or houses in wliii'h their Lrnntls were made up, ciiher as tn cleanli- 
 ness nr heal thf Illness. I ilid not 111 id anywhere shnjis that >,'r.id< I dn wii In the le\-el oi the 
 sweaters" "diMis" described in the repeal of the Coiiiiiiission of the British Iioii.se of 
 Lords, and in the reiiorts of the I'liited St.ites Factories inspectors, but 1 found not a 
 few in which there was i^reat room for improvement. 
 
 10. The jiractice of usini; shops in which clothing is made as liviin; and sleeping 
 rooms, which is so gi'cat a cause of complaint in I'^ngland and in some American cities, 
 does not obtain here, at least to any exient. When clothiiig is made in private houses, 
 howevor, bed-rooms and living nmiiis are freipiendy used as work fonms. 
 
 il. ] cniild learn of no aulhenticated i.'ase of an infectious disease having been 
 spread by moans of garments made in cnniraclors shops m- prisale hoiecs, thongli I did 
 hear of cases where scarlet fcxcr and diphlheria hail been known to exist in p'aees where 
 clothing was being made. 'I'liat great aiul serious danger to the public healt h might 
 readily arise from this source, unle.ss means be taken to guard against it by proper in- 
 .spection, is evident. It is true we ha\e not, as yet at any rate, the tenement house sys- 
 tem wiiicli is the cause of so much danger of the kind in licatod in such cities as^ Chicago, 
 for example, but even inordinary worksho]is and dwellings better inspection tiian the 
 laws now provide for is needed to ensure the public safety. 
 
 12. As far as I could ascertain the sub.-ontraeting .system, which some in England 
 have held to be the only one rightly vleserving of the apjiellation "sweating system,"' 
 does not exist in Canada. It may be that there is danger that with the tendency to 
 
 
increasing suhdivisicjii of laliour, it will obtain a foothold hero, hut it is worthy of note 
 that, in Kiij^laiul, wIktc it was onc'(^ coiiuuon, it is said to he <lyinjj; out. 
 
 13. Only i!i Tnronto did 1 tind that any custom or ordci'cd rlothiiiL,' is nuide undcf 
 the fonti'act system, and thei'e only trousers are made in this way. With this exception 
 the contract system, so far as the clothing trade is concerned, is confined to the ready- 
 made business. 
 
 14. The .systems of having workshojis on tlicii' {iremiscs and of allowing their work- 
 men to take work Imme, aii^ botii conunon in the custom or tJi'dci-ed clot iiin;f trade. 
 Many tailors, iriore particularly married men, prefer to work in their homes. Where 
 the trade is oi'ganized the unions geniMaliy limit the number of hours |>er day for work 
 in shops, and, by taking tiieir work home, some who wish to work longin' than the union 
 rules peimit, can do so without the knowletlge of the unioa. The advantage of iiiiving 
 the assistance of their families is a further inducement. 
 
 li). As stated under No. •'!, I have lot found it ])ossible to obtain data which 
 would 'ustify the gixing of a positive answer to this (piest ion. 1 have already giNcn 
 some of the reasons advancetl by the employees in support of their belief that an aliir- 
 mati\e answer should be given. It is but fair to say, however, that other reasons ai'e 
 put forward in support of the contention that not only is the contract system, in the 
 clothing ti^ule at any rate, not an evil in the diicction indicated, but that it results in 
 a positive gain to the employees by conserving and more [irotitably directing their labour, 
 and so ennbling them to earn a;id receive more than they otherwise would. I found 
 that men working for cor.tractors leally received as gooti pay as, and not infre(piently 
 better pay than men who worked directly for the wlio'esah; manufacturer for whom the 
 contractor worked ; but this c unparisou was not conclusive for the r(>ason that the kinds 
 of work were dissimilar. [ found instances where manufacturers liad abandoned the 
 factoiy .system and adojited the j)lan of hav ing their work done by contractt)rs, believing 
 that they saved expense; and troulile by doing so. In one such instance a reduction of 
 the wages of the employees had followed the change, but there were attendant circum- 
 stances which nuu'.e it uncertain whether the change from one system to the other had 
 been the sole or even the j)rincipal ciuise of this. On the whole, my impression is that 
 it Would be a gain to the employees, and without ;i,ny loss to the manufactur(>rs. if the 
 factory .system could be substituted tor the contractors' shop system. While 1 do not 
 as.sert that as a rule the conditions in contractors' shops in Toronto and Hamilton are 
 unsanitary or unwholesome, they do fall far short in these respects of tlu; 'ai'ge factories 
 in Montr(;al and ibilifax. W hen acompaii^'-n is made, howevi-r, between ihecomlition 
 of the people who work m contractoi's' shops und the conditions which attend the 
 making of garments in jirivate houses, the advantage is, in a marked degree, in favour 
 of the former system. While it riiight not lie correct to assume that the substitution 
 of factory wf)rk for the contract .system woulfl ceitainly result n the payment of higher 
 wages, my opinion is that the tendency would be in this direction, while the gain to the 
 workei's in improved conditions of employmen'^ would be great. As compared with the 
 ])lan of factory work L am of opinion that the contract system does result in reducing 
 wages and in lowering the conditions of laliour, but when the comparison is made 
 between the .second and the home work })lan F am' satisiied that the contract system 
 secures higher jjay aiid better conditions of labour. 
 
 If). There are many places in the cities of Ontario and (Quebec — (there ar'e no 
 Factoiie.-; Acts in the other pr-ovinces) in which clothing is made, which do not come 
 und -r the provisions of the lAictories Acts, and such ])laces are not subject to the inspec- 
 tion and r'egulation of these Acts. 
 
 17. Even in factories and shops subject to the regulations and restrictions of the 
 Factories Acts, there is found to be considerable dilliculty in enforcing the pit)visions 
 forbidding the employment of children under the factory age, and, as miglit be expected, 
 in small shops .and i'w(>llings to which the A<'ts do not ap[)ly, childien of very tender 
 years are employed. I also found that in such places women and chiMren woi'k many 
 more hours daily than would be permitted in shops and factories under the regulation 
 of the Acts. The school laws check the evil of child labour to some extent, but do not 
 by any means prevent it. 
 
 * 
 
9 
 
 is, I found iio positive evidence tluit the coiitlitions in tliese small shops jiiid 
 dwellings were actually unsanitary, l)ut in many instances they were very far from ix-ing 
 cleanly, and not a few were the reverse of Ijcing C()Mifortal)l<' working jjlaces. The. \en- 
 tilation was often l)a(l and some of the rooms were too small for the nunilier of people 
 emjiloyed. 
 
 I'J. The coniiietition of the small :,hops that do not come under the provisions of 
 the Factories Acts, and the rivalry of people who work in their own homes undouhtedly 
 has the cHect of forcing contractoi's to take work at lower I'ates than they otherwise^ 
 would, hut this is only in jiart owing to the fact that they do not have to comply with 
 tiie regulations of the Acts, 
 
 •2U. The Factories Acts l)oth in Ontario and (.tueliec, .ippcar to l)e faiily well en- 
 forced and to give gen<M'al saCisfaction in their working, hotli toemploy<'rs and miployees. 
 A greater nuud)er of inspectors, li(jwe\-er, is needed, and moi(> fre([uent ))uhlication of 
 I'epoi'ts would he an advantage, 
 
 •Jl. There is pressing need that the j rosisions of the l''actories Acts should he 
 very greatly hi'oadened .-md exteiuled so as to hi'ing within tiieir juiisdietion all places 
 where goods intended for sale arc; manufa<.'tured. In accordance wiih an amendment to 
 tiie ( )ntario Factories Act, which was assented toon April Itith of last year, tlw gov- 
 ernment of that province, appointt^l, in addition to the male inspectors, one female in- 
 spector, who is doing very etiieient work, init it is not pos.siide l.iial one woman can etlee- 
 tually watch over even the factories and shops tmw under tin; .\ct, and it w.iuld l)e(|uite 
 beyond the j)0wer of the present staff to do the \'.()rk if the law were aineniled mi as to 
 bring the small sliops under its regulations. 
 
 -■_*. I do not find that employers in Ontaiio and (,)u(>bec areas yet suti'ering any 
 disad\ant;ige because of llu! enforcement of the I'actories Acts in these pro\inees. It 
 is very evident, however, that should competition become keen bet ween tliem and manu- 
 facturers in otliei' provinces whei'e there are no such Acts in force, they svould he place<l 
 at a \ery serious lli^ad^•antage. In the abseiu.'c of connnon legislation in the several 
 provinces it is a cause of I'egret among the working classes thai there is no l)ominio!i 
 legislation of this character. 
 
 L*3. '!"he geiii'ral opinion among employers and workini^men is that no one province 
 could enact stringent legislation for the purpose of cht^cking oi' ])re\enting tht^ "sweat- 
 ing system,'" without great I'isk of injuiy to business in that piovince, and that the 
 probable effect of the enactment of such legislation would he the transference of the 
 business to other provinces where such restricti\e laws might not be enacted. Such a 
 result appears to ha\e tbllowed the enc'.ctn)ent of " anti sweating ' laws in some cif the 
 States of the neighbouring Union, notably New York anil Massachusetts, 
 
 21. Should the dominion Parliament enact legislation for the pui'pose indicated, 
 both manufacturers and employees aj)pear to fear that it would result in greater- imports 
 of r-eady-rrrade clothing and a lessening of the quantity rrrade in the Dominion, urdess 
 the import duties wer'c raised sutlieiently to cover' the incr'eised cost of irranufacturo. 
 
 25. Attempts lia\(> been made in stneral of the Amer'ican States to check the 
 "sw(;ating system ' by re(iuiring tiiat all goods should be labelled oi' ticketed .so as to 
 show whether' they wer'e made in tactorios, contraciors' shops. pr'i\ ate houses or' tenement 
 houses. These attenijits ha\e been followed Iry a liirrited measure of success ordy. It 
 has been pr'oposed by mcMnbers of labour or-garn/.ations and others anxious to upr-oot 
 the "sweating " evil, and car'eless, perhajis, as to the corrsei|uences in other' directions of 
 the suggested remedy, that .'i system ui labelling or tagging should b(; adopted and 
 legally enfor'cetl that would practically hav<^ the cllect of nrakirrg all r'eady-made clothing, 
 except such as should be made in factor'ies, unsaleable, by attaching to it a suspicion of 
 ha\ing been nrade urrder' mu'leaidy or unsanitar'v conditions. AVhih^ som*! of the work- 
 ing peojile with whom 1 conversed on this sul)j<!ct ex[)r'essed thenrselves as dirsirous of 
 having the labelling system tried, I did luit find that, as a rule, they r-egarded its suc- 
 cess, as a means of substituting factor'y wor'k for the contr-actors" shop or home work 
 systems, as nrore than ])r'ol)leinalical. .Slanufaeturers on tlu; othcM- hand are gcru'r'ally of 
 opinion that such legislation would be vexatious and troul)lesorne to them without 
 I'esulting in any corr'cspondirrg berrelit either to the [)ublic oi' to their- employees. 
 
10 
 
 20), The answers of cniploynrs and onii)lo3'('f's to lliis question entirely disagree. 
 Tlic t'ornicr are, as a rule, opiiDscd to tlie adoption of the plan of licensing; shops and 
 houses where goods are made ii[)for tlieni, iiolding tliat it would be an annoying inti^'fer- 
 ence with l)usiness, and that little if any good woukl result from it. The employees <)n 
 the eonti'ary, hi'lievc tluit hy reason of (he better iiispeetion, which tlie licensini,' system 
 could lie mad(^ the means of ensuring, and the improved conditions as to sanitation and 
 cleanliness which they believe would result, the conditions of their employment would 
 be greatly improxed. The contractors generally agree with the views of the employees 
 on this ([uestion, and would be willing, as a rule, to agree to the imposition of a li(;ense. 
 
 117. i'he infoi'mation gathered under this head indicates that the tendency is towards 
 lower wages, both as to the prices paid foi' jiiecework and as to the aggregate amount 
 received by the employees. 
 
 28. ^V]lile the tendercy towards lower wages is less marked in some Ijrant'hes of 
 tiie clothing trad(> than in otiiers, there cannot be snid to i)e any l)rancii in whicli the 
 teuflency is, in any marked degree, towai'ds higher wages. While I found isolat d in- 
 dividual cases which, at lirst siyht, seemed to indicate that there was an u|iward ten- 
 dency, fuller investigation showed that there were exce]itional reasons foi' these cases 
 and that, even in tlie most favourable circumstanced divisions of tiie trade, there is 
 really no evidence of a tendency towaids higher' wages. 
 
 2il. Competition among conli'actoi's ami among workmen has undoubtedly resulted 
 in th(! lowerin;,' of the prices for making yoods and of the rate of wages The introduc- 
 tion nf improved labour saving nuichinery ami ap]iliances, and the subdivision of kdxan' 
 have likewise had a similar result, but the t(mdency towards low(u- w.ages is m.'unlv due 
 to t.he n'cner.il reduction of tlu^ prices of llnished goods. I do not tiiid tluil combinaiions 
 among employers have played any jiai'l in pre\entmg the riseor in causing the tall t>f the 
 rate of wages. 
 
 30. There caniuit be said to be an ap])i'enticeship system in the ready-made clothing 
 trade. " Learners " aie employed — usually young girls and boys —but tiie employer is 
 under no ol)jigation t(> teach them ;i ti'ade or any part of one. I']\idently such a system 
 is capable of gross abuse and there are not wanting instances of such abuse by unscru- 
 pulous employers. 1 learnc d of one contractor, engaged in making pants and xe-t;. who 
 makes a pi'actice of employing " leai'iiers '" who enyag(> to work for him without wages 
 xvhile they are learning the ii'ade. These Iciirners, usually girls, are kept at some trivial 
 and easily mastered work, such as j)ullin'4 out basting threads, sewing on buttons, or 
 running up seams on a sewing machine, and liuui, when tlu^ term foi' which they agreed 
 to work without wages <>x}ures, they are discharged, without having had an opjiortuidty 
 to learn any trade by wiiich they can earn a livelihood, their places being iilled by other 
 "learners" who are in turn defi'auded out of several montiis of work and time. Tt is 
 not easy to determine just what effect the e.xistence of such an " apprenticeship sy^^tem "' 
 may have upon w:iges, but it is abundantly evident that when fail' employers are forceil 
 to compete with those who take ad\antag(» of the opportunities which such a system 
 ofl'ers to the unsci'iii>uloiis, the effect must \>v. detrimental. 
 
 32. Tlie sy.-^t.-ms of p;i vment by tlie day or week and by pi(H'ework l)oth prevail in 
 factories aiul contrac^Mi's' shops, it is not usual to Hx a task or stint as a day s work 
 though the system is not unknown. IO\'en when there is no task set as the tlay's work, 
 employees usually understand that the I'etention of their situations depends u|ion their 
 r(^gulai'ly doing what is regarded as a fair days work. 
 
 .'i-'i. 'i'h(> pi(>cework svstem is proliably more usual where women and childrcm are 
 employed than it is among male employees, liut the division cannot be said to be upon 
 sex lines. lla\ing regard, however, to the fact that all work dont^ in private houses is 
 done on the piecework systee and is mainly done by \voiiien, it is evident that much 
 the greater part of tiie clothi 4 made under the ]jiecewoi'k system is made by women. 
 
 'M. 1 could not obtain data which would justify a positive answer to this ((uestion : 
 though if tiie v hole trade be consid(M'ed, — home work as well as factory and shop work 
 — it is probable that the higher wages are received by those who work by tlu; day or 
 week. 
 
11 
 
 111 
 (Ilk 
 ork, 
 H'ir 
 
 .3."). len hours per il;iy or sixty hours per week in t.lie usual tiuu' worked in factories 
 and workshops, liut in private houses the time is irrei,'ular and the nuinl)ei' of hours of 
 work usually nioi'e. 
 
 .'')() 1 did not find evidence that tin? system of I'niiii,' foi' imiierfect or spoiled work 
 prevails to such an extent as lo involve injustice. It is worth notiiii,', however. Miat 
 one of the most sei'icuis disadvanta.i;es, wiiicli those wiio work for manufaiturers in tiieir 
 own homes labour under as compared with those who work in factories or conti'aetors' 
 shojis, arises fron this system, ^\'llen an einjijoyee in a factory or contractor's shop d(jes 
 imperf'^ot work, necessitating an alteration, only the time i-eijuired to make the altei'ation 
 is lost. On the other hand, aperson Nsurkiiii; at home huinI carry the n-oods hack ayain, 
 freipKMitly losing iuilf a day because of having to make an alteration which in actual 
 work only recpiires a tew minutes of time. Toaxoid this they an; often willing to 
 submit to a line or reduction of wage.s far in excels uf what the making of the alteration 
 would Ik' woith to them. I found that, as a t ule, tho-e employed in contractors' shops 
 are not held res^ionsible for the making of ahCrations and arc thus freed from the respon- 
 sibility and loss to which thosc^ emi)loye(l in factoriovs ;ind pri\ate houses are sul)ject. 
 Though not striialy [lertinent here, it may not bo amiss to say that manufacturers 
 iniiforinly lu-ar testimony to the hoiioty of those wlio woik for them in their homes. 
 ]\lany thousands of dollars' worth of goods jiass through the hands of this eljiss of peojile 
 every month, yet losses ihiouuh dishonesty are scircely k'nown. I was informed li\' one 
 manufacture!' in Montreal that, though his goods were sometimes out of his warehouse 
 for months, his entii'c losses diil not amount to one dollar j>er ycai' and that he ne\t'r 
 knew of a case of I'etil dishone>iy. 
 
 .''>7. The information gatheied under this head does not show that there is much if 
 any change in the relative number of the unemployed in the trades under in\estigation. 
 There has been r, ])retty steady increase in the <[uantity of ready-made clothing manu- 
 facturrd. and this lias gi\en employiiKMit to a greater number of men, women and 
 children, notwithstanding tlu> introdncli<pn of lalioui- sa\ing machinery and the adoption 
 of imjn'oved methods of manufacture, but thi' incicased demand for labour ha-- bi'cn 
 fully met and the relati\e number of the temporarilv unemployed is no less than 
 formerly. I do not find tli.-it the labour uiaiket in the trades under in\i'stigation has 
 beet! (o any consideralile exttsnt tiflected by immigration, though there have be(Mi in- 
 stances of workers having been brought to Canada to take the places of men who were 
 " on strike,'' and it is a cause of complaint among Canadian workmen that while the 
 Uniteii States laws are striitly and even harshly enforced against any of tlu'iii who seidc 
 emplovment across the lines, there is no Canadian law to juotect tlc'in .against American 
 labour in similar wavs. In connection with this head I would again refer to what has 
 been >aid under No. .'>U. The throwing of the ■■ learin'is there referred to on the 
 labour market, nec(^ss,■u•ily residts in an increase of ilie nuud)er of unemj)loye<l. 
 
 .S8. The number of feuudes employed in the ready-made tdothing trade is relatively 
 grt^ater than the numbtM' of males, and, as a conscfjueiu'e, as the ])roduction of ready- 
 mafle clothing increases in comparison with the making of ordei'ed or custom clothing, 
 I lie number of female emplove(>s becomes proportionally grt^ater than the numlier of 
 males. I'^or the saini> reason, and in about th(> same proportion, child labour increases 
 <as compared with adult labour. 
 
 .■)'.l. I'oth employers and employees suffer loss by reason of there being at times, aiul 
 fretjuently, Ji scarcity of labour in one locality contemporaneously with a surplus in 
 another, but tiiei,ades under investigation do not suffer niiuu! in this way than do 
 others. 
 
 •10. I do not find that the tenement house workshop system has as yet been in- 
 troduced in C.inaila, but, eNce])t the abscmce of the very liigJi rents whi<'h prevail in 
 AuK^rican cities in which it exists, thert? are none of the conditions wanting here which 
 have created the system elsewliere. A provision of the Britisli FactcM'y and Work.shops 
 Acts would, if adopted lieri>, be a great safeguard against the commencemtuit of the 
 tenement house shop system. 'J'his pro\ ision is that every <iccupier of every factory or 
 workshop from which wearing apparel and other .specified goods are given out to be made 
 up outside of the factory or workshop, shall keep a list of all persons to whom they are 
 
12 
 
 so ^'iven out, iuul copies of tliese lists nuist Ije funiislicd to tlic inspector half ycui'ly. 
 The t'niin )>rcsc'ril)(,'(l is as follows : — 
 
 Addnss of fiic/ni'i/ or /rorkfftnji nr placi' J raid irlu'-l, /rnr/,- /.■^ r/lren mif 
 
 Kami- of iirciijii(',r ofjactorij or /ror/,s/i(>j) or /liacf, ___^ 
 
 Jliisine.ig corrii'd o^i 
 
 J\aii/(:s of jier.siiiis ri/i/jloi/fd by ihi' orct'/iii'r imfsid'' f/i< /id'/ori/ nr irorL'slmi) or i>lnre from, 
 ii-hidi irork is (/ivr,i out, ami iilocrs o-loin- tloy (ire i:riij)lityid, vi:.: — 
 
 A. — Pkhsoxs so empioyt'd as workiiicii. 
 
 Clii'istiiiii unci SiiniMiii 
 
 PlilCc U licl'l' l'',nipln\i.(l. 
 
 B. — Pkhsoxs so cmjiloyetl as contraetoi's. 
 
 ( 'liristuin and Surname. 
 
 i'laci' whi'Vf l';ni]ili)Vi'(l. 
 
 A similar list must be ke))t liy coiiti actors of all jiersons working for them outside 
 their sho[is, and furnisiied in the same way to the inspectors. 
 
 As will lie seen from the foregoing, I have directed my attention almost exclusively 
 to the investigation of the "sweating system," so called, in connection with the clothing 
 trade. I luive done so partly because the time at my disposal did not permit of a more; 
 extended investigation, and partly because among the intlustries in which the "sweating 
 system '' might be expected to exist, this is the one in which the evils of the system— 
 the danger to public health and the injury vo employees — would be most likely to be 
 found to prevail. I was also inlluenced by the belief that whatevet legislative remedies 
 can be applied to check or prevent the evil in this industry must necessarily be equally 
 eHicient as regards other trades. As has been already stated, the excise laws of Canada 
 oj erate to prevent the extension of the "sweating system" to the cigar-making indus- 
 try, which is the only other trade in the Ignited States in which the evil has been found 
 to exist to any great extent. In Montreal, Toronto and Quebec there is some giving 
 out (>f fur goods to be made in private houses, and in the first named city some of the 
 work in the shoe trade is done in this vay. In the shirt industry the home work system 
 prevails to a not inconsiderable extent, and any statements hereinafter made concei'iiing 
 that system in connection with the clothing business may be considered as applying in 
 some degree to this industry. 
 
 The development of the "sweating system " — including in the term the contractors' 
 shops and the home work system— has been coincident with the business revolution 
 
13 
 
 wliicli hiis, witliin ;i (|Ufiit!*r of a ccnlury, cliMrmed tliat industry from mw in which the 
 pi'ojiorlidii i)f custiiui iiiadf youds to icady-iniidc was aliniit as nine to unc, to one in 
 \vhi<'h the jiio)init ion iitoidcicd ciothiiiL;- is |ii-ohal)ly not nioi-c, if as niiu'h, a^ foctv prr 
 t'ont. I'lu^ (!r . cloiiMicnt of thr I'cady made inihist ry Ijy tin: sulidi\ision of lalmur lias 
 I'fndered unnect'ssary I lie (Mn]iloynu'nt of so meal a |ii(>jiortion of sprciali\- si<ilicd 
 liandicraftsnicn and made it possible to ,i:i\o fMn])loyni('nl to loss slsilicd and cheaper 
 laljour. (iainicnts lieinj,' niadi> in assortments, and it licinu no lonircr neeessiiry tf> make 
 eaeii special u.irment to lit a particular wearer, they are cut onl iiy machinery and then 
 each pai't of the work of making U[) and linishiny' is done liy men. women and children 
 skilled in doinu' that ))articular pail. In t'lis way what may he called the "team work " 
 system has arisen, which lias, in the ready made cloihiiiL;- and shoe trades, jiracticaliv 
 diini^ away with the necessity for einployiim cumpleleiy skilled i radesnion. The factory 
 an'l its modilication tlie contract shop in which this ■•team wmk ' system can he most 
 effectively and economicallyjiraelised, has taken the place, in yreat niea>iirc, nfihe tailor 
 shop and the shocmakci shop. The house work system is but anotiier de\-elnj)nient of 
 the "team system," as undei it the family hci'iinies a "team," 
 
 Stated l)rietly. the contra' I sy-tem in th'- clothiiii; tiade is carried on in this way : 
 In the warehou^i's of the larije wholesale ;i aniifactiners the clotliin;; is cut out. Tt is 
 then sent in lots t . con.ractoi- who ha\'e their own shops. Thesis contractors, u--ually, 
 and for their own eon\enience and aihantajic. conline lhemsel\('s as far as practicable 
 to the makin^df stMiie parlii-ular kind of ;:aiinents, c(»ats, trousers, v(\sts, mantles or 
 overcoats ior e.xainjile. Tiiey ean thus most prMlilably utilize their maeliinery, and, by 
 subdivision, the lalxiur of their employees. The wholesaler takes no responsibility for 
 thc^ ])ayment ol the wayes oi' the employees of the contractor, nor does he hold himself 
 in any moasui'e res]ionsd)le, for the condition of the shops in which the guilds .ne made 
 lip. Wit h th<' I'eceivinu 'back of the linished :,'oods anil the |iaymeni of the contract 
 price for lini--hinu. Ids responsibility ends. In e\cry casi' I found that 'he wholes.-ilt! 
 manufacturers iHsclaimed positi\('ly any further ol)li:;ation. 
 
 As 1 ha\e alr(;ady stated, umler No. I •_'. the system of subcontr.actint;' can liai'dly 
 be said to exist in (';in;i(la. and it would, therefore, not bi' nei'c sary to refei' tn it here 
 wei'e it not for the icason that, as it is the system under which tlie u'reatc'-t e\iU and 
 most deplorable conditions ha\e deseloped in other countries, ii would seem to be the 
 part of wisdom, when considci'ing measures for the jniipose ui clieckinL; the introduction 
 or grow th of the " sweat iiie" e\ il in ( 'anada. to h;ive special regard to the ]ire\ entioii of 
 this system. This rcniark' applies as well to the tenement house shop system. In the 
 I'nited States, where, in some of tli(» cities, this last system largely ja'cvails. there are 
 numerous well authenticated instances of the spreading of contagious diseases, such as 
 measles, scarlet, sjiotled and typhoid fescrs, eiysipelas, whooping cough. di]ihlheria •■md 
 small-i>ox. by means of garments made in tenement houses under unsanitary conditions. 
 
 While the investigation has shown that the •'sweating system 'with its attemlant 
 jind conseciuent e\ils does not e\i^t in Canada to the same oi' neai^ly to the same e.xteiit 
 that it obtain-^ in (Ireat Ihitain and in the l^niii'd States, it has also slutwn that theio 
 is absent from Canada no single one of tlu? pri( lary conditions from whieh the system 
 has de\(lo]i((l in those cmnitries. it would thi'i efore seem that any remedic'- which ha\e 
 been found, oi- which it is jirobable wotdd ha\-e been found, if tried, ellectual in other 
 countries to cuie the e\ il, would likewise, making a!low;iiH-e tor ditl'ering condiiion--, be 
 etiicacious in pre\en1 ing its commencement or further growth here. l''or this reason I 
 have considered it a part of my <luty tc indicate some of the remedies which \\n\c been 
 tried or nr >posed in the neighbouring rt.'public — that being the country whose conditions 
 most nearly resoiid)le our own — accomiianying this resume of the law. and proposed 
 le<^islation of the sever;il states and of the United States with -itch remarks as the 
 information elicited duiing my investigation may seem to call for. 
 
 Tlui C<immoinve.dth of .Massachusetts appears to have taken the initiative in distinct 
 
 Icgi.slativo effort to clieck the " sweating .system."' J3y the law of that state passed in 
 
 1891, and amended in I^'.Il'. esi^ry house, room or place used as a dwelling in which 
 
 •garments or wearing .ip])ai'el of any kind is madt; wholly or partially, or altered or 
 
 repaired, except houses occupietl exclusively by the members of the fandly, were declared 
 
u 
 
 find t'l'co tVoin 
 iiatuic.'' Tei- 
 to notify the 
 \v(ifkslio|), the 
 
 to bo workshops, juul iil.iccd under Lho inspection of tlio district police, whose duty it is 
 to examine all siicli garments, etc., "for the purpose of ascertaining' wiiether 
 said yarinenls * * * * ,^,.(5 j,, c'leatdy conditiun 
 
 vermin and evi-ry mattei' of an infi I'tious iuid coiita,:,'ioas 
 sons occuin'in.i; or iiasing control oi \vork.shoj)s are re(iiiire( 
 district ]ioliee ur tlie special insjectoi' of the location of tii 
 natui'e of I lie work to be carried on and the number of tlu; jjersons em])loye(l. I'^vei'y 
 person wnrkinu' in any such workshop is r(!ipiired befoi'e coniiiicncing work, " to procun; 
 a license, appro\('d by the chief of the district police upon the rciconmicmlation of tlie 
 in.spi'ctors espeiially appointed for the enforconient of th(! provisions '' of the i\ct. If 
 the inspector linds evidence of infectious (Hsease in any workshoji or in anv yoods man- 
 ufactured or in i)roeess of manufacture therein, it becomtss his duty to report the tacts 
 to tlio chief of the district police, whoscMluty it is in turn to notify the State Board 
 of Health, which body, if it linds the shop in an unhealtiiy londilion, or the clothini,' iintit 
 for Use, is re([uired " to issue sui;h older or oiders as the public safety niay reijuire ' 
 If it is reported to the Inspector that clothing is being imported into the state which has 
 been manufactured wholly or in pai't undei- unhealthy conditions, it l)(>comes his duty 
 to examine the gootls and the condition of their manufaiMure and if the goods or any 
 of them are '-found to contain \-eiinin, or to have beenuiadi;in improper p'^ccs or under 
 unhealthy conditions he shall maki^ report thereof to the .State i'xtard of Health, which 
 board shall thereupon make such oi-dei' or orders as tiie safety of the public may r(;([iiire." 
 Whoever sells oi' exposes foi' sale clothing "made in a teneuuMit house used as a work- 
 shop " is re([uire(l to ha\e attached to each gai'ment a tag or label not less than one inch 
 wide by two inches long, on which shall be written or printed the words "Tenement 
 ^Nlade "" and the name of the state, city (jr town in which the; article was made. No 
 person is permitted to sell or expose for sale any such garment without such label or 
 tag or "any of said garments with a tag or label in any manner false or fraudulent," 
 nor shall any " wilfully remove, alter oi' destroy any such tag or label upon each of 
 said garments when exposed for sale.' A penalty of not less than fitty nor more than 
 one hunch-ed dollars is attached for the \ iolatitin of any of the provisions of the Act. 
 
 In its practical working the ell'ect of the .Massachusetts law is said to be (1) Tiiat 
 tlie chief of the district })olice and the inspectors intei'pret it as bringing the liouses, 
 rooms, iV'c., within the meaning oi the factories law, as " worksliops," The effects of this 
 inter[iretation are (a) that si'parate water closets are r(.'([uired for men and women, and 
 (b) that the ten-hour law for women and for minors under eighteen is made to apply. As 
 owners of tenement houses are seldom willing to go to the (expense entailed by (a), this 
 method of interpreting' and enforcing the Act has a d(i(nded t^-ndency tovNards abolish- 
 ing the tenement house systiMu. ("_') i>y their method of enforcing the tagging ov label- 
 ling system the inspectors are said to make tin; law almost as ell'ect ive against timement- 
 made gooils from other states as it is against such goods made in ^Massachusetts. It is 
 claimed that th'- tenement house shops have \ii tually ceased to exist in lloston as the 
 rt'sult of the enforcement of the law. Less clothing is said to be made in New York 
 for the Itoston market, wliile iiunv. is made in iJoston and moi-e in AFaine. This last 
 claim does not, howe\er, harmonize with the information upon which T based the state- 
 ment made unchn' Xo. '2'-). So far we're th(^ members of the congrt'ssioiial committee who 
 examined into the working of the law from accepting this optimistic view, that in their 
 re[)ort to Congn>ss they speak of the result of the working of the law as "atypical 
 illustration of the defects of local law." This committee in its report held it to have 
 been demonstrated that the result of the enforcement of the Massachusetts law had 
 been to encouiage the sending of goods to be made in other states, often undei' un- 
 sanitary conditions and then selling them as "Made under the Alas.sachusetts 
 law." (3) The effect of the licensing system is said to have been that 
 the homes in which clothing is made have been greatly improved in the matter of 
 cleanliness and comfort. The method of licensing is that at first a temporary 
 license for thirty days is gi'anted, and, after the place is insfjected, the license 
 is either extended or made permanent. The conditions reijuired before the 
 license is made permanent and which must be promised before it will be 
 
15 
 
 exteiuled, urc : (a) aljsolulc cleanliness ; (li) that no rooms used ns sleepiiii,' a|iartiMents 
 shall \)V. used as work rouuis, and that no i;arnients, eithec linislied or' in jimeess of 
 manufacture, shall he allowed to he l<e]it or (i» remain in slee|iini,' rooms; (c) liiat notice 
 must he sent to the inspector of intended removal or of the hrisakin;,' out of any 
 contai^ious or infecti(ais disease either in ihr family of the ptMson hoklinj,' the license 
 or of any family residini.' in I he same liiiildinL;, and (d ) that no person not a mcmher of 
 the family shall he (Muployed on the jireuiises licensed in the work of makiiii,' or linishini,' 
 wearing api)arel intended for sid.. 
 
 The law of New York, which was enacted in IS'Jl.', is, except as hereinafter noted, 
 almost identical with the .Massachusetts law in its provisions. IJesidc^, ait ides of wcar- 
 
 M 
 
 mg appiirel covered liy tiie .Massaciiusetts law, and winch it enumerates, tin 
 
 cw 
 
 iw appiuis to the makinic o 
 
 »f pu 
 
 rses, 
 
 featl 
 
 lers, artilicial llowers and cigars 
 
 lnst( 
 
 orlc 
 
 as in Massachusetts, merelj- commau<ling the .State IJoard of Health, when clothing is 
 found to he infected or unlit for use, to " make such order or orders as the satVtv of the 
 
 pul)hc may re(puie. 
 
 the Xe 
 
 aw enionis 
 
 the I 
 
 >oai'(l o 
 
 f II 
 
 ealtli 
 
 o conil'mn an( 
 
 destroy all such infectious and ontagious aiticles.'' The licenses in the New York law 
 are called permits, and arc^ i-sued (jr granted hy the I'oard of Health to persons fouml 
 w(jrihy, upon inspection hy the inspector or the iioard of Health. The pen.iltv for 
 violation of the Nt-w ^'ork law is not less than one hundre<l n'lr more tiian li\e hun- 
 dred dollars. 
 
 The ju'ovisions of the Illinois law whi(/h apply to the ''sweating system ' are con- 
 tained in three sections of the l'"actories ^\ct. These forhid that any room in a ll\^(!ll- 
 ing or tenement house used as an eating oi' sleeping rocjin shall he used foi- the manu- 
 facture of wearing apparel and the other articles enumeraieil in the New ^'<iik law, 
 ext'ept hv the immediate memhers of a family living therein. The remainder of this 
 section and the other two sections of the I'^acturies .\ct which apply, icgulate the in- 
 spection of workshops and of clothing, etc., in the same way as the New Y'ork law. 
 There are no provisions for lahelliug or tagging the goods nor for licensing or granting 
 ]iermits as in the Massachusetts and New York laws. 
 
 \i\ noiK^ of till' other states are there any la'vs speciidly aimid at the prevention or 
 checking of the "sweating system,'' nor are there any sections of the Factories Acts of 
 these states capahle of being so enforced as to opi'rate as a check on the system which 
 would he at all likely to he eff'-ctual, Jt may he well to note here that the New York 
 t'oiirt of Sixcial Sessions has recently given a decisinii, which, if it he upheld hy tin.' 
 higher courts, will make the Ne\\- York law in a great measure inefl'ective. .\ man was 
 being prosecuted by one of tlu^ ins|)ectors for em])loying persons, not menibers of his 
 family, to woi'k at lUMking clothing in a tenement house, without the permit reipured 
 bv the Act. The Court of Special Si'ssions discharged the accused, holding that it is 
 not unlawful to hii'c persoi's, not members of th(> family living in it, to nianufacturo 
 clothing in a tenement house, notwithstanding the law forbidding it. 
 
 In the hojie that a I'^ederal law, einliracing in its sco|)e all the states, will be eil'ec- 
 tual to pr(^\ent tli(^ '• sweating system,' a bill has been introduced in the present con- 
 gress under the title of " A l:iill to raise Additional Revenue for the Support of the 
 (iovernment." The title of the bill is, of course, pretexual inasmuch as the raising of 
 revenue i.s not its object but a means by which it is hoped that another object will be 
 accomplished. The proposed meMsur<' may b(> summarize(i as follows : It ju-ovides that 
 when a manufacturer gives out materials from which clothing ^md other manufactured 
 articles enumerated in the hill are to l)e made by cf)ntraotors and others not directly in 
 the ein]»loyuient of the manufacturer in his owir factory, the said manufactuier sh.ill 
 [lay in advance to the United States Revenue Collector a tax of S-'JtJO | er year for each 
 contractor or person to whom material is so given mit. The bill also provides that any 
 contractor or other person taking materials from a manufacturer for the purpose of mak- 
 ing them up, who shall sub-let the work of making tij) or tinishing the goods, shall also 
 pay a yeai'ly tax of S.HOO in the same way for each person to whom he sub-lets any part 
 of the work. Should the work he again sub-contracted or divided, the pei'son so sub- 
 letting or dividing it will be subject to a like yearly tax of ii?300 for each person so em- 
 ployed by him. 
 
16 
 
 TliiTc fiiii 111; IK) (Imilil that sinli ii nicu^iirc, if' it- sIkhi' 1 lir pulsed, and cduM lio 
 
 enforced, wmild cHiM't iially |uil an end l<> tl sweat inj; system " in llie trades tn wlneli 
 
 it woidd ai)|ii\', and loiniiil tlie nianiitaclure of clolliinu. <'te., in fai'lorics opeiated liy the 
 
 inanufactutei's. NVilli sucli a law in force only the luij;er find nioie well to d ntiue- 
 
 toi's, who cotdd fUVoid to advance the money for the manufactiifeis U> pay the tax, 
 could continue in Ixisiness. Small cuiiti'iictoi's and all home >\(ii'keis would certainly he 
 flriveii outof the trade. N'iewcd only from the stand|ioint of those employed in siiojis 
 and factories it wmild l)e an adxanlaye, doulitless, to have le;j;islalion enacted which 
 would ;d)olish llie Imme woik system. I'ossihly this miuht lie an advantiiffe tothetrade 
 as a whole, or at any rate to those who mi^ht idtimately lii' found to remain in it, liut in 
 the meantime it nuuht not he easy to justify legislation which iimst iiievitalily result in 
 depriviii;:' many worthy jieople of their only means of eainini; a livelihood. 
 
 It mav lie of interest to olisijrvc, coiK.'ernini,' the proposed I'V'deral law just men- 
 tioned, that. Iiefore its intidduetion in I'l.nyress, a draft of the measure had formed t he 
 suhject of discussion at a convention of the National Association of I'^actoricis Iiispec- 
 tois, and that it had received the approval of that hody. Tlu^ association seemed to ho 
 convince! that all attempts to aholish the " sweatint; system ' hy state lejjislation must 
 in the natur(^ of thir.^'s prove al'ortivc anil so fa\ oured an attempt to destrov the tene- 
 ment house and home work sv.sicnr - the princi|ial causes and the st roiiu'liold of the evil 
 — liy a l'"edeial law whic^i sIkiuIiI accomplish its real purjiose undei t he jiretense of im- 
 posini;' a revenue tax. 
 
 It will i)e ohserved that the dilliculty which lies in the way of successfully attack- 
 inj^ the ''sweating system" l>y means of li'Lfislativc^ enactments, in the 1 'nited States, 
 arises out of the ijuestion of where Federal jurisdiction on the one hand ami State au- 
 thority on the other he;;ins and ends. j (, is not claimed hy those who advocate the pa.s- 
 sage of tin; ]iropose(i l''ederal law already r<'ferred to, that the laws of ^lassachusetts or 
 of New "^'ork, for exam]>le, wo dd he itu'tlicient (ir inell'ectual, were it noi forthefai-t 
 ihat thev are only stat'- laws .ia\in^ no force outside the states passing' them. I am 
 assured that t host; who, under existing- t'irc'umstances, am advcioatinu' and sii|i]iortinL;' the; 
 pro])osed Ke(h'r;il law. wciuld greatly prefer a natitinal law framed on the lines ot tin? 
 stat(! laws I'eferred to, were the enactment of such a law within the jurisdiction of the 
 iM'deral congress. l'"oi'ced to make choice hetween state lei^islation calculated to check 
 the "sweatiiijTf" e\il while not doini;' injury td woithy working;' petiple, and inellicient 
 onlv liecause tiie states cainiot eiiforc(? it l)(>yond their own houndaries ; and a, i-'ederal 
 law which aims at curinij; the evil hy the clumsy, if t.'flectual, method of killiiiL^Mlie 
 patient, they choose tin' latter. 
 
 I am conscious that, in this report. 1 should avoid makini,' suLTU'estions or specilic 
 recommendations to authorities hy whom I have not lieen conunissioned and to whom I 
 am not ans^verahle, and T am aware that some of the sugt^estions which I deem it to he 
 mv duty to make, will, possihly, have; reference tt) matters that under the constitution 
 and hy the terms of the IJritish .North America Act, come mi.re jiVoperly within the 
 powers of the Provincial legislatures than of th" Dominion I'arliament. At the same 
 time, 1 realize that, not heing equipped with the knf)w ledge necessary to determiiu! where 
 the avithority of parliament and of the legislatures l)egins and ends, I might easily, 
 should T be over careful to a\(iid seeming to trench iipoii jirovincial authority, run a 
 danger of omitting suggestions which, ]>erhaps, after all, I ought to have made. I ha\e, 
 therefore, deemed it Ijest to make the suggestions and recommendations which seem to 
 me to he called for by the facts as disclosed by my investigation, leaving it to othei's 
 more competent than 1 to decid(> as to w here; the authority may be ve-led to accept or 
 reject them. 
 
 As elsewhere remarked, it has not been found possible to obtain, through the 
 medium of a temporary connni.ssion, reliable, detailed and "ccurate statistical informa- 
 tion on the (juestions of w^ages and of the conditions of life .md labour among the work- 
 ing classes. If Canada is to Ik.' brought up to an eipiality in this respect, with oth.er 
 countries and with some of the sister colonies, it is of primary importance that such 
 statistical information be collected and [uiblished at intervals of sullicient freipiency to 
 make the information contaiiu^d in the reports promptly available. Even were the 
 
llDIII I 
 
 to be 
 iuition 
 iiii (lie 
 
 \sliere 
 ■iisily, 
 run a 
 li;ive, 
 ici'iii to 
 otliers 
 •pt or 
 
 li the 
 
 it'orina- 
 
 work- 
 
 ntl'.er 
 
 t siicli 
 
 ire tlio 
 
 iiit'iiiiiiMi i'lM wliicli is cor.iaiiiril in tin- crn-u-; itIui'ii^ L:ivfii ^utliiMi'iitly in di'tiiil. it i>; 
 iKil ('(jrii'iicil ,-ni(l pulilislicil wiili >iiHii'iciii :Vi'i|iii'iii\ tn make it it';ili\ useful in the 
 (iirTction in(li<'ii,ti'(l. I wunlil n'linnnu'uil ilial the .\r\, clinpirr 1.') nt' ilic A<'ts nt' IMMi, 
 III' put in fiircc. .111(1 1 1 lilt till' iitliiTis a|i|M>ifitcil unilci' tliat Art, he difiTti'd to ,L,'ivi' s|i(H-i,il 
 Mini iiniuriliaif aitrni ioii Id ilii' cmIIci-i ion ot' stiitisiical aiiil dllicr inrorinnl ion licariin,' 
 ii|ion til" vvjiii'i's ]i;ii(|, and tiic condit ions ot' life and !;iliouf .■inionu I tiost' cnxaj^t'd in tin- 
 inid<iiiL; <>i flotliinu', tin' i^'oud-;. shirts, coilar- and cutis. ni'('l;tii s, liont- anil shoes, t'e.it her 
 ;j(i)ods, and corsets, .ind.ilso similar inl'onnai inn li^'arin;;- ii|i<in liic c.'ndiiion ot' ilmse 
 (Mnployed in laundries ami lnl<er>' : hops. Sudi cHicer- should also Ik; instriicied to 
 collecl. as speedily as niay lie |ios,silile, int'ot niii ion iMiicernim; I he emplovinent and eon 
 dilinii ol' (Chinese li\in^ within tiie honiinion. 
 
 The pro\ isions of the l'';ietories Acts sh'illlil he exiemled ^iias Id include wiihin the 
 spheie of I hi'ir r 'nulatii/ns all facloiies ami woi'k^lii ip^. ,ind all d\M'llim;s in which more 
 llian the husliand and wife arc employed iuid in '•h.ch articles nf any kind intcnde.j for 
 sale, are lieinn' manufactured. W'hitevi'r ohji, lions niiiy he inopcrh- urjied a.;airist 
 interference of this nature ii; ilie cise ol' families woikiny in llieirown hoines, none can. 
 T tiiink, 1)(' validly ad\,tiiced on the <,'roiiiid "f improper invasimi of tlr,' sancits' nf the 
 lionie. ,'i^ainst .sul)j(ctin;; to inspect ion and re^rulalion houses in which, hy tlii' employ- 
 nient of non-mcmliers of the family, the jirivacy wliich makes the home sacrid has liecn 
 surrendered. l'I\en in those cases in which those employed are the children of the. 
 parents li'iiie^- in ihe house ii does not seem to nie that, for that reason, there should he 
 no inspection or supervision in the interest ami fi)r the protection of the general puhlic. 
 'J'he ri^ht of parents to work their children is not so imli- ptit.'dile and indel'e.a^ihle iioi- 
 of ,a n;iture so sacred that society is hound lo i,i!ce the I'isk of illiteiacy and moral ;nid 
 pliNsical deterioration in deference to it. 
 
 It is iiecessary. ton ilial, the pro\ isidus of the Kactories .\cts concern- 
 ing; the inspection of the factories and work--liopT and the regulation 
 of the conditions of laliour therein shipiild li" unil'orm thriaii,'liout tlui 
 honiinion. Whether tlii^ can lie seciii'ed only hy com/uireiit and similar le;;islat ion hv 
 the sexeral pro\inci's, nr whether it is constitutionally wirhin tlie power of p.irli.inient. 
 to enact a honiinion Victories Ad. it is not my [irovinco to sULj^jest I'.ut that it is 
 necessary that ("it her there should he mie l''aclories .\ct for the I 'oniinion, or t h,il . in 
 tlioir main provisions at ;iny r.ite, ihe I'^aclorii"- Acts of all the provinces should he 
 simil.ir, is the un.inimous opinion of all ('in]>lo\ ims as well as employees with whom I 
 have .sjioken on the suhjeci. I lielie\e it wmild cunduce to the ellectiveness of the 
 .Factori(is Acts if the plan weri^ adopted of lia\inu' one chief inspi.ctdr who would have 
 the supervision and direc'tion of a sutliciently niniiei'ou> stall of male and female deputy 
 inspectors. This would ensure, besides i^reater elliciency, uniformity in the i ntorcement 
 of the iiro\ isions and reniil'itions of the law. 
 
 I'nder .No. •">'.' attention is called to the loss whii.'li both employers and workers 
 sulVer, because of it fre(|ueiitly liapiieninL,' that workmen are idle in one town or city 
 when their services are needed in another. I wmild recommend that, either as a part 
 of the work of till' bureau of laboui' statistics or in some other way. a system of labour 
 registi'ation slunild be adopted, so that workinainen miudit be kept informed jiroinj)tly, 
 as to where a demand might exist for their ser\ ices, and eiiijiloyers at the same time 
 advised as to where workmen could be ol.itained. 
 
 Can.adian workmen compkain of tlu' injustice to them of .illowim; labourers and 
 mechanics to lie brou;j;ht to Canada under contr.act- made in other countries. The pi'o- 
 vince of ( hitario has enac'tiKl letrislation makinu such contracts not t>indinL' iis .aj^ainst 
 the employees, which is as far, probiibly, as a provincial legislature could constitutionally 
 gf) in the direction of remedying the evil, but there i.s no legislation of this kind in the 
 other provinces and no Domiiuon legislation of tiiis nature. i would recommend that a 
 honiinion law be enacted prohibiting, under a sulllcicnt penalty, the making of contracts 
 in other cou'itiies for the pm'formaiice of labour in (Aanada. This l,iw should 1)(^ made 
 as far reaching as is citnsistent with our position as an integral jiart of the empire. It 
 is not ray province to say whether or not such a law could be made to apply to contracts 
 made in the mother country or in tlu; other colonies, but it may Vie jiermissibic for me 
 , 01— 2 
 
IS 
 
 tu .siiygcsl tli.'itMifli an iiji|ilii'.ilii)ii i)t' il would iml tliU'ci inati'iiiilly in {iiiii(i|ilc t'lnin 
 tlie t'lit'orccun'Mt. of sumr nt tlii^ pi'L'Heiit iimiiijiratinii tcmiluiioiis. ft would ui.so sicin 
 tliiit tlic ()iitaiio 1/UN jiisi ict'ci'icd to imiilvrs, in sonic inraMnc, llnsann' priiirii li-. If 
 it i.s coniiiclrnl tor a proxinci- l . nidlit'y coiitiacls made in (licat lirilain and in otlici- 
 colonics, no ^(I'cal ly dillciin;^ ju imiplc would x'cni to \ir in\ol\cd in t'oiiiiddin;^ tlio 
 inakiiij,' of tiicst! roiiliacts. 
 
 In tlu' midst of my iiivt'sti^fation, one of (hose !■■ -^ict talilc indusliial distni lianccs, a 
 striki'. Of, in tliis casi-, to .speak iiioit! oori'cctly, a loi-k-out, (HMMiiicd in tlic custom or 
 oidcicd clolliiiiy ti'acio in the city of Toronto. Tliis dilliculty at ilic diiic of writinu' tliis 
 rciMtrl- has not Ijcimi adjusi.cd. I I'cf'T to tiiis not, for ihc pur[)Msc of cxprcssiiiy iu»y 
 opinion a.s to wlictlicr the lialancc of justice or ihjuslii'c, of riylil or w ron<;-, inclined to 
 one side or the oilier, which I should lia\(i no lif^lil lie'! to do, hut in order that I may. 
 perhaps the more cU'ectively, point out some me.iie i>y whici' such ]iidlniii^'('d iiidiislrial 
 conllicls ma\ lie pieM'iitcd or rcndereil less com.iion. I am siroi.;u'l,\ <'f ojiinion that a 
 J)iiminion I loaid of mediation ami aihitrat ion .-ould he made tli" means of a\ertiii;,' or 
 satisfac'toi'ly --ettliiii; a \-ery large proportion of the lalxair dilliculties and industrial 
 inisunderstandiiiiis which now cNcnluale in stiikes and lockouts inxolvinn' Lfrcat and 
 never wiiollv repaired losses to hoth capilfd ai.d lalmui. Such a hoard could aii hoili 
 initially at the reciuest of either jiarty or of liotn parties to a dispute, nr as a court of 
 appeal from the lindiiius of local \olui l;iry hoard^of concillal ion and arhilratioii, which 
 iiiiuhl he (iruani/.ed somewhat afici' t he manner of 1 he i''reiirh Cotiseils des rrud'hommes, 
 as such \dluntary hoards are oruani/cd i,i some or the stales of the nciulihouriiii,' repuhlic, 
 or as pro\ i<lcd in " The Trades hispulcs .\''t of lS!l|"' of ()nlario. It would not, in 
 my opinion, he either practical or di'^irahli' tu ^i\c such a hoard jKjwer lo enfori't! its 
 decisions, c.\cc|it, perhaps, in ihe case of transportatdii conipanies. telet^iaph, electric or 
 ;;as comjianies cni)\ ini;' puhlic franchises, hut the mere inteiscnt ion of such a hoaid and 
 its conciliatory hcariiin uf hoth parties tithe dispulc wuuld, I helieve, in the majoritv 
 of cases, result in ( ilhcr pi'in'cnlim; a strike or hick-out or in settlini,' the dillieult\'. 
 
 As has heeii elsewhere slated, there is ikjI in the trades to which I ha\c directed 
 my attention, anything which > n he ri:;hily designated as an " aiiprenticeshi|) system," 
 and, as has heoii also slated. I he plan of taking in " learners ' at low wa^es. or no wanes, 
 vitli the luidei'staiulinL;' that they are to he taught a trade, or branch of trade, or i;i\cii 
 opportunities for Ic ruing one, is open to great ahuse and sometimes results in great in- 
 justice. Hoth for the )irolectioii of "learneni" and in the interest uf hoiioiirahU' em- 
 ployers legislation should he enacted to juinish frauds of this sort- against young jiersiriis. 
 This legislation might take the form of recpiiring, whenexer any woman or young jierson is 
 employed as a " Icjirner," under an agreement or understanding, expressed or iiiij)lied, that, 
 in consideration of tluMi- working for a specilied time atr low wages or without wages, 
 they ".ill he taught or gi\'en )U'o]iei' op[)ortunity to learn a particular trade or hianch of 
 a trade : then the employer shall he rciiuircd, under a suitahh^ penalty, to teach them 
 the trade or hiaiuli of trade or all'ord them proper ojiportunities for learning it. as tlu; 
 case may be. I'ailuie to either teach <ir alFortl j)i'oper oi)jiortunities for learning the 
 traile or branch of trade should be made a misdemeanour, and if on trial ii should ap- 
 pear that the (Miiplo3'er did not himself know the trade or branch of tividt!, and had not 
 the necessary means or conveniences for teaching or atl'ording opportunities for learning 
 il, this should be considered e\ idence of guilt. 
 
 For the purpose of ensuring the iiaymcnl of the wages of the employees of con- 
 tractoi's. T would reconnnend that the wholesai,,- manufacturer employing the contractor 
 be made legally responsible for the payment of such wages for a reasoiialile tim(>. This 
 jiriiicijile is already conceded in the mechanics' lien laws, and, e.\c('pt a little trouble, it 
 neeii not entail either hardship or risk upon the manufacturers, since they could reijuire 
 tlie contractors, before being paid for making the goods, to satisfy them that the wages 
 had been })aid, or the}- could recjuire the contractors to deposit with them a sum sutH- 
 cient to cover the risk. I do not tlnd that contractors make any objections to such an 
 arrangement, but, on the contrary, would welcome it as a means of relieving them from 
 the unfair competition of unscrupulous men, who oiler to take work at rates which men 
 intending to pay wages cannot compete with. 
 
 '; 
 
If 
 
 19 
 
 W'liili' 1 would iiut iuImmmic ilic a(ln|)ti(iii ot' tln' l.iWollini,' or \ii<^'/ii\ii ■^y'tciii .i- an 
 iiidiici't s\iiy "if |irc\t'iiliiiir llu- iiiakiui,' ut' ycidils in Mnall .slmjis and Imiiii'x liv niakiiii^ 
 tlic ijiMxls made t.liciciii uiisalcalili' ; and wliilc, as iiniriird out iiiidcr No. l<), tin' Icnc- 
 nicnt liuiis(^ sliop sy.sti'ni doi's not as yi«t cmsI in Tanaila, I would Vfl. Iiuviiig rcgaiil to 
 tlir t'act, tliat wi' liavi' no guaraiUff oF coniiniit'd ('Xi'iii|itioii tVum ilii- evil, iccoiiinicnd 
 that w lii'tu'NtT I'lotliitii.', iVf.. sliall lir niaili- In any tcnrinini Iimusi', ii hf rc.|ini'rd that it 
 lal)i'l oi- ta\' shall lir atla'-lnid somewhat iit'ii'c tln' manner |irovid"<| in the .Massai'Inisi'tts 
 law, I woidd also reinnnnend ihit. for the puiiiuse of ellertually etifoi'ein;,' sucli a 
 re^'iilat inn, tiie Wdi'ds •■ tenement hoiisi' ' -houlil he delini'd to nit'iin any liunsi) used in 
 whole Of in part as a dwelliny;, an<l in whiili in<ae than one I'amily shall reside, 
 
 'J'her" ajipear to l)e many advanlaircs aiiendini,; the adoption of the lieensini; sy.stcin 
 as enfiMTcd in Ma-'saelnisetts and New 'S'nrk, and I vvould leinmniend i he adoption of a 
 similar sysi iin int'anada. In addition to i he conditions allacheil to t he !,'rantini{ of a 
 license or permit in the stales named, I woiild rocommend that it lie re(piired, licfoio 
 any license or peimil to manufacture yoods in any shop or dwellim; is made permanent, 
 that in (^very room to \m used as ii work-room there shall not he less thin I'oO cnhic tVct 
 of air space for each person employed m the day lime, and not less ih.in K'O cidtie feot 
 for each person employed at ni;;ht, e.\i'i'|it in I'ooms li;,dited hy means uf elect riciu wlien 
 the allowance of air space nii^lil he less than tOO .ailiic feet at niuhi. 
 
 1 would recommend that it he made a nii-d<'m(Niiiour for any iniinufacl tirer, coni rac- 
 tor or other pci'son, lo •j^lw out cir cause to ln' i;i\en (ail any wearing apparel to he made, 
 (•loaned or icpaiicd in an\ dwelliiiju; or huildinc- used partly as a dufilin^^ whilst an in- 
 mate thereof is suirerinLC from any contiiui(uis oi' infectious disease, uidess such mann- 
 facturer, coiilract(a' or ollh'r person shall pro\c that he w.i-- not awaiv of the e<istence 
 o.' the disease in the liuildin;;' or dwclljn^r, ,uid could iKJt ri/as(aial)ly liaxc liecn exjie'-ted 
 to have become aware of it. 
 
 As a further measure for the prc\fnlion ><\' the introduction ot the tenement liiutso 
 shop system into the 1 )ominioii, and as a means of assisting' the factories insjicctors in the 
 ollieient di.sc!iari;(^ of their duties, I would recommend that manufacturers and others ho 
 reinured to furnish to the factories insjiector-. li-is of persons to wlnan they ;.'i\"e out 
 ■work to he done outside their own factories OI warehouses, as reipiiied hy the Ihitish 
 Factories and \Vorkslio[is Acts, (-xplained under No. 10. 
 
 Ail of which is respectfully sulimitted. 
 
 A. W. ^\ KlGllT. 
 
 Toronto, .March (ith, It^'Jli. 
 
 61-2J 
 
srrnjvMMN'rAU^' ui-Mnnrr 
 
 ['ii"! 
 
 U|Hiii ihi' Swcaliii-' System in ('iiii:nlii, l»cing an Api'dHlix (o tli<' Kc'iiorr. 
 
 i:\ ii»i;nci; T \ki;n hn w i;i>ni:sii.\v and 'iiii i!si>av Mcins, .iw. 
 
 Sim AM> '.ini AT IMCllMnMi 1 1 A 1,1., Tni;! iN'I'n. 
 
 Tllf ( 'Mlllllii^-innrf i)|M'ili'(l llif liio'tiliu 'i\ '''•'' i",L,' I 'I'lt Ik' llll'i |'lT|i;niMl .-l lilllilln'l' 
 
 111' i|Ufst,iniis to nliii'li III' wiiiilil iii\ iic ri'plii's tVi 111 .■iii\ iMi'^ciil wlin miylit Ix- iihli \<< 
 
 lUI-iNNcr lll( III. Ill- wislicil ;il| li. firl (!mI tile tVl'l'st 1 1( is- jl ill ■ r,\ 1 1|( ssji in i.f (i|ii||i(>ll WHS 
 ill\'it((l. Il \\:i-- lliil (Ifsili'il 1(1 iDlirnir ill.' jirMrcciiilii^s Id ;i silir, iit' l('|plir-- In liis (jVies- 
 
 ticms, iiiiil il Wiis lii)|i('(l tlial cacli winilil I'Xt'icisi' tlic rit^lil to ask aiis turllici' i|iii'sU()tis 
 wliicli iiii:.'lit oi'.'iir In llii'iii. 'Pill' (HH'stiiitis lie wmild a-k wrrc tn lie ciiiisidcii'il iini'i'ly 
 us a soil i.t' I'laini'wnrk I'm' what lie lin|M'(l wnuM ln' a. wvy t'i'i'i' I'Npn's^iuii nt' ihr \ii'\S'- 
 ol' I lid^c |irr,-i'iil . 1 1 is lirst, ([I'l's! inn w a-- : 
 
 |)it|,i' iiiamit'acliirci's ni' wliolcsali- iiirn di'iailr llii' ui vin-- lUil nf wurk In ■-umn 
 t'l III man ur nl lirr i'lli|'li)\ I'r w Ilii ai-l)it rai ily lixi'S tlir jilircs in l.c jiaiij .' 
 
 Mr, 1,. ( Intni SK^ . Aslaras I ran unilrrslaml. |'iiri'> arc ti\iil liy tli- I inset's nt' 
 ihi' wari'linii'-i's. In l/iiii-v A W'alsnn"--, t'nr iii^laiiir, I 1 clii'xr llial it lia-. Iii'i'ii 1 ho 
 fuslnni Ini I 11" linn anil llii'ir forcniiui tn imct in tiic -iiriiii; and fix tin' piiros. In 
 ■Inliii-inii iV Cn. i\M) iiu'ii sort (if t'nri'iiicii— take in and u'ivo "lit all tiu' wmk. Tlii'sc 
 t wii nirii alsn lix I 111' |irii'('. 
 
 'I'ln- ("OMMISSlilNKi;. Is il llii' lill-iiu'vs nt' siiinc (iiic |ir|snll in iMi'h sli,,|) tn ti\ \\\i: 
 ]>liri' as llu' i;nnds ^n nut .' 
 
 M r. I il i.'ni'sK\. 'I'linsi' I lia\r iiii'iiliniii'd I call sjii'ak nl' with ciTtainty. 'I'liry 
 an'. linwrMT, only two Iradiin;- limisrs mil nt' a dn/i'ii and a iialt' nr sn ln'ii'. 
 
 Tin' ('nMMl.ssioNKi;. Is llu" rnniiii'l ilinii lii'twi'i'ii cniitrai'tiirs keen and dnrs it ri'snit 
 in I'lilliiiL;' prici's .' 
 
 .Mr. ( irijni'sKV. - ThiTi' is a krni i'i)in|M't il imi aninnu--t llioin, I'spcrially iinw. \s hen 
 
 he stiikt' i'^ nil. 'I'lii'V lia\i' ;i Int nt' wmk lyin^;' nii lln'ii' hands, 'riic wan'hniiscs have 
 
 lixfd priir. 'I'lu'y ask a cnntrartnr " Imw imuh will ymi uivc t'nr it !' Wlii'ii he names 
 
 nis prill' thry i\i> not iinincdiatoly _i;i\i' him ihc wmk. 'J'licy rail in annthrr and nht.iin 
 
 his ]irii'r, thru nixi' il In tin' Inwi'-t liiddiT. In i;i\iiiu- nut lai'uv i|iianl il ii'> ihry nii.x uj) 
 
 till' work iinnd and I'niiininn. 'I'lu' I'niitractnrs wmild nnl nt'lcn lake tlii' cniiininn work, 
 
 liUt ;irr I'nlllpl'Urd In dn sn in ni'iiiT to L;Ot tilt' unnil. Till' t'Olltractnls ai'i' pitti'd auainst 
 I'ai'li otiu'i' all ilic timr. 
 
 Mr. .1 .\Mi-"..s Siii Mil \\. Is tlu'ii' a fontractni' stamlini,' hi-twoiMi vuii and thi' iii'.'n 
 w ho in.iiiut'at'turo .' 
 
 M '■. ( tiiini'sK\ . Tiuli'i'd tlu'ii' is, soiiii'l init's two. 
 
 Mr. 1 >. .1. I i"I)o.\oi:iui;. - Is tlu- eontrai't soiii'tiiiu's ;i sul' contraot ,' 
 
 Mr, ( 'iri:ni>'\V. — Yi's, somrtinu's. 
 
 Ml. W'm. !•",. Tonn.- That iiut'siinn has boon woU lirnuuht out ? 
 
 Mr. .\. !'\.hi;v asked whi'lher tlie iiuostion w;is inionded to covor t'uUy all the 
 work ilniii' liv oontrai'ts iiu-ludinu- the work i;i\en out to women who omnpleted it at 
 their hnines .' 
 
 The (.'oMMlssiONKR. — That phase nt' the nuestion will he fully lirouj,dit nut. 
 
21 
 
 Tlir < 'n\|MI.S,sluM,K, ||ll\i' |||i' CMflltlMv-tdrs »Ul (l-iMlcialioM wllir || at|i'|ii|it, | .■> ||\ ,,r 
 
 iv.-iilai" 111.' [iiicvM lt> lie |iai(l \)y the \vli<il.-saltM' or iiiiiiiiitaci iirtT. oii tin- nwv \uu\i\ : or 
 till' vviii,'!';., or |iiircs (iir jiirri- Work to 1)1' |uiil llic ••iiiiiloyiTs ' 
 
 .Mf, (ll liiilSKN, Till V lia\i' hiisllrll a-MM'iatiiHI IIDW 'I'lll'V itttitm|il('il to tullli nlltt 
 
 til li\ I lie |iiici'^ iiiailc liv III iiml.u'l iiri'is ami to n'L;iilaif I lie liaii'l«., i>iit' wcfc iiii'~iiri>cs8- 
 ^'il- I 'I'Mi'l liflirvi' llnii. is any Midi ussmiat iuii aiiiDiii,' tlic waiclinii-^ciiifii lliC! kiics 
 • ji'aliii;: f\.'liisi\(.|y ill I'lnl liiiii.', I dnn't tliink tluMc is any iiiiiliixiainlin- In'tw.'.-ii liiiMu. 
 'I Ih'V all iiy III nil iIua n I lie Wnilinuiin ii. .i> far a- |insMlp|i', Imi inili'|M'iiilciil ^t' cai li 
 nlhcr. 
 
 'I'lic < 'u\|\iiss|iim;i;, |s ji at all a luiniMmi |iiariiri' tur i'iii|i|iiyirs t y miii'isoF I lie 
 
 lainilics nt (uiitrailnis u< >li'c|i in the wurk luoins i.r n-c I'lol JiiiiL', in iIk- toiiisc nf niaiiii- 
 t'acliiri'. t'cir hiMldiim .' l'i'rlia|i-> l In- I'ailurir-- iiis|,(.clniM, who I am nlad to sec iia\ c bocti 
 ^iMiil i'iioii;;li to attriiil ill'' iiiii'i iii'^-. Would l.isour us with ^onic int'oriiiaiioii iiadrr tliis 
 
 lirad. 
 
 h'ariorio lii-.|iiTloi' .1 \-. I!. Iliiows. I doni iliiiik thai we have any oj,|iiiii mill \ 
 (it kiiowiiii,' of ,|iat kiiidof ihiiiy licMT. \\ I can sraiifly irfoi,'ni/r ilicso as wliat: aru 
 ti'i'iiicd >wi'al-shM|i-, fill' till' siiii|i|i' rcasuii thai these t-onlraeiors ha\i' lieeii in liiisiness 
 for many y<'ar.s, and it is only wit hiii tin' last few years i-oni|ilaint- liave heen iiiadu 
 with regard to diseases Willi ivfi rence to ejotliin'4 hcinn' made in jiiivaii' houses. At 
 eertain seasons of the year ili • nuinln'r of iiersons is not suilji-ieni to eoine under liie 
 Faetory Ael. < 'ne niiuhl yo a dozen times and iioi liniltlie nuniljer. At other i inu's, 
 however, you mi.:,'ht yo and lind the iiunii"'i suilieienl for tlu' .\et to aji|i!y. Ilavinj,' 
 some knowledye ol the mailer In Chieav'o I arconi|ianied the ins|ieiioi' aiul saw soiiie- 
 tliin;L,' of it there. I mentioni'd with a \ iew ii, the idea that le^i-Lit ion inii;hl he sought 
 to prexent e|olliin'4 '"'iny iiivcn to |iri\ale In. uses when- it iiii;,'lil lie that infeelious 
 diseases weie in evisiciier. Hut so far as I am eoneeriied, I don t know |iersoiiallv of 
 any easi- Ik .e Some of I he coiitraetors lia\e slated to ine that one threat e\il when' the 
 elolhiiiii is .uiveii out lo the wi\es of workiiiuuieii is that the women will take it at less 
 
 than the eontrarlors would yi'l for it. Tliii is one of th im|ietiiioi;s the cout raetors 
 
 liave. ( »f eoiirse Mime iif iln' eonl i actors nia\ he here. Thes- would he liet Ict ahle to 
 tell. 
 
 Kaetories lns|.iTioi M|s, .MAiii.\i;i;i ( ' \i;msi,k. There is just oni- ease I ha\e in 
 niy iniiul. it ociurn'd in liamiltoii. 1 have lunie across none in 'roronto so far, 
 
 l''aetories Inspector l|oi:i;i.'i' i!Ai,'i!i:i;. I am not. in a posilion to say that any iiiado 
 use of the clotJiiii'4 for hi'i Idin:^', lull ha \c fouinl a few places in t his eit \' where work 
 was ddiii' in lilthy hou.scs. I have asked thein to clean up, and some who ohjocled liavi; 
 removed, unfoi'tunately. That is a class of peo] le liiat c.in he seldom found a second 
 time, when We want to sim- them a^ain. I!ut 1 do not know anv one makin'^ use of the 
 clothin;^' as lieddinn'. 
 
 .Ml!. I >. .1. < •'! )o\()i,|ili;. - 1 lo you think that ihe people \(iu want to lind iiio\e 
 l)ecause you are lookiii;; after iIhiii .' 
 
 Inspector IJvum.i;. 1 would not like to say that, ll is a i[uestioii of rent often. 
 Last suninier walking; upastieei in "the wards I lieaid machines i^oinu in a house. I 
 went in and foundaplare I had not prc\ionsly known of. I went in and iiwpecli'd 
 it. I went a;4ain iwo weeks after and found ih.il ihcinan had skipped and left his 
 employees without jiayiim them their waives. 
 
 Mr. I ). A. (.'.\i!i;v aski'd for a dcsi-riplion of the place. 
 
 lnspeet<ir I>.\i;iii:k. — I do noi know that I cuuld now n'ivo you a description of it. 
 
 Mr. (-'-Miin. — I just aske I for a description sinqily to understand in what c((iidiiion 
 the jiouso wa.s .uid how the work was heiuLf carrii'd on. 
 
 Inspector l>.\i!iii:i;. f merely mentioned that as sonnthin.f; that nii,i,dit bo iiiterest- 
 in<5 to the Coininissioner. There was one place I renieinhor well, on Ceiitiu Avenue, at 
 the lower end. It was on .i hot day in July or August. The steps wei'e in a dila])i(l- 
 ateiK;oiidit ion, with a larue hole in them. 1 found several people W()rk'iiis; upstairs. 
 The place did not look as if it had e\er been scruiilied. 1 told that man that he would 
 have to clean up, and he said he would, lie afterwards moved and sent me word to 
 th/it elle(*t. T found him on I'ichmonil Street in a much better place. 
 
22 
 
 ]\lr. firiiOKSKV. — T do not tliiiiU tliat \>>u liiivc tlu' dnss <it' people licre that eould 
 (iiiswer tliJit questioii. You will tint I thai in i..aiiy of the places that many ot the 
 huiidjes aic not only used to sleej) on, liut to muse sick cliildien on while the women 
 work at the sewing macliines. Of course, in large establishments, such as I w<pik in, 
 wliere many hiuids are employed, the clothing is not used for hedding. 
 
 The t,'oMMissio\i;K'. — I )o the wholesalers or manufacturers keep theniseKcs informed 
 or make impiiries as to the sanitai'V condition of wnrk^lK'ps or dwellings in which their 
 clothing is Hianufaclured .' 
 
 JNIr. C^l'Ho^■sK^. In s(>veral years of experience, I ne\i'r heard of a wholes;der 
 in<)uiring as to the workshop where their work was done. I dnuht whether m.inv 
 wholesalers or foremen e\er see the estalilishmeitts in all their lifetime. People work 
 for them for yeats and bosses and foreman know nothing of them beyond the street and 
 luuuber of the h<iuse in wlr'eh they res'de, 
 
 Mr. W. |-]. ToDO. Where a contractor gives the work to a sid)-contractor, how 
 Would it be pcissible for a wholesaler to lind out where it was mach? .' It would be at. 
 impossibility. 
 
 The L'oMMissio\i;i!. — T do not thiidc so. Tf they were anxieus to obtain the infor- 
 mation, they coidd. 
 
 Mr. '!ui;oKSKY. — They are not xfiy anxious. 
 
 .Ml'. 1 >. .1. (.)'DoNO(;iii T,. Till' experience in other countries ]u-o\('s that they can 
 be. anil are, compelled by law to knoN\ where ihe wnrk is dune, escn by tin? sub- 
 contractor. 
 
 Inspector H.vuiii'.i:. There is .lo law lieie to compel tlieni. but I lia\i' ne\erbeen 
 rt.'fused wben asking for sudi a list from wliip|e--alers. They h.r. e law^^ in iiritain, Imw- 
 ever, compelling them, as has been said, to know where the work is gi\en. 
 
 The ('oMMi.-'SioNKi!. — Do till' wholesalers or manufacturers take any steps nr make 
 any ellbrt to keep theiiweU cs infoi'med as to the wages or prices paid by the cunt factors 
 wli' dii I heir wurk, to operatms. linishers, p essers (M" other euiployees .' 
 
 .Mr. tJiHoi'sicv. — Indeed they do not. It is not any of their funeral at all, They 
 gi\e the coiitractor a ]>rice, and they do U'lt know nr care how he "cts it done, or where, 
 so long as he brings it back to theni. 
 
 The Co\|\iissHi\i-;i!. - ( )r as to the jirices paid bv the cimt factors to persons to wlmni 
 they gi\e out work to be done at home .' 
 
 M r. (!ri;oi-siv V. — I presume the aii'^wer is the same as on the jiresious ipiestion, 
 pro\ i led the system of so ui\ing out work by contractors i'^ practised. 
 
 The ( 'oM MissioNKii. — Is theie nuich work gi\('n out bv coniraclors to persons who 
 work ill their homes .' 
 
 Mr. (ifUorsKV. — ^\'ell, Mr. V'right, as f.iv as [ know, a few sub-contractors have 
 gone into that jiart of the work. There i^ one fellow in particular getting in that work 
 on hulies' work. One on I-"ront Si reet— Fine is his name — H I"' ront Street. West. 1 think 
 — has re<-ently gone into the business. ^'ou will lind his record in the police court. 
 Not less than fourteen girls left him in one week. Several of them had been in the police 
 court for noil jiayment of wages. He sub-contracts on all kinds of work. Ivito.is have 
 (dso gone into that kind of business. 
 
 'i'lie CoMMissioNKit. Which KatoiTs .' 
 
 ]Mr. (iiH(tFSKY. — T. Eaton's. They are making u]i their ladies" work on that kind 
 of iuisiness. Tliey give their peo[ile pierewurk, Tliev contract with the timtractor, 
 who L'ets the rake-ofi'. 
 
 The CoMMissiON'Kii. Ivitoiis get all their work do.ie by contractors, do they not ? 
 
 Mr. (lUiioFsKV. — Some of it. 
 
 The CoMMissiosi;!!. — Does th.e )iractice jirevail to any consideralile extent among 
 maniifa lurers or wholesalers, of giving out work directlv to peop'e who make it up in 
 theii- homes .' 
 
 .Mr. tluiiORSKV." — 'IMicy carry that out to a largt,' extent with most of their ■-mall 
 work, all chikh'tm's work goes out in bundles of live, or six or a dozen. To some extent 
 the same thing is cari'ied on in coats of the lower grade and pants. It is only within 
 the last two or three years that two or thre(> pant establishments have started to make 
 
23 
 
 up liniuUes in l;u',m> (]iia)ititi('s. \>u\ tin' hulk •/wo nnly tlircr ny t'otic to nnc winiian, uiul 
 in that 'viiy send llifin all over the city. 
 
 Mr. (J.\i;ev. —1 know of iiiscs wlniro work is i,'i\cii out tVom larj^'c wiioiesalc liouses 
 to nianut'.ic'turers to the women. 
 
 .Mr. (ItROFSKV. — Scvi'fiil large ready made clothini,' fstalili.shments in tliis city do 
 the same tiling, altliou;,'!) of course tlifv Imy some clothing ready made. 
 
 Inspector .l>.\HtiKh. — ■^\'e sujiposo thai llic ui'cat Inilk of ordered cloiliinu tortile 
 trade is (h)ne in the same way. 
 
 Tiie CoMMIssioNKli. — That (iiicstion will come tip lalii'. F-- it tistiai t'or peojilc wjio 
 make up cloth ini,' at their home--, for maniifactureis or (•(•iiMactor^, to employ a<-i-~taiice 
 not uieiiiliers of their own families ' 
 
 Mr. (iii;oKsK'\ . - 'i'hev always u'et some one who will woi'k for less than iiothiiiu'. 
 All have some one to help them. 
 
 The CoMMissioxiCR. -What is the naiure of this assistance : are ihose tiiey employ 
 mail's or females ; adtilts or children .' 
 
 Mr. 'JriKX'sivV, — They do mostly children's work in the liraiich siiops : very few 
 men w oik in the liranches except in the larger shop^. in i he wholesale houses youiiL.' 
 girls come in who want to learn the trade. 
 
 The CoMMlssioNKH. — .\re such employees usually paid hy the piece, oi' do they 
 generally work hy the day or week's 
 
 Mr. (Ulioi'sKV. — ^Ivself and fhr)s(> here to-night are all paiil Ijy the week, hut in 
 some of these places, Iviton's estahlishment. for inst.iiice. they pay them by the piece. 
 
 'J'lie (^iMMIss|o^■Kl!. -Speakiii'.; more pirticularly of employees who wdik in private 
 houses. 
 
 Mr. (inioi'sKV. — \s far as I loiow hoth pii>cework ami week work. 
 
 The CoMMissioNKi!. — -Vre tliere many shops or places wheri^ clothing is made that 
 do not come under the ])r()visions of the Factories Act .' 1 think the statement made 
 by yiv. r>rown covers this (|uestion. 
 
 .^^r. OiiiorsK^. "Hundreds of them. 
 
 ;^1,-. .)ri!V. — What th<' Commissioner should do to satisfy himself is to walk up and 
 down 1 lay Street for a fmv hour- any day in the week and sei> the great numher of 
 women staiiLjeriiiit up and <lowii with great liundles of clothing; some of the poor 
 creatures hardly ahle to walk. 
 
 ^Ir. Cahkv. — Yes, he would see hahy carriages used to carry these bundles. 
 
 The CoMMlssioxr.u. — I asked that nuestion largely to make way for tlie next one. 
 Ar(> there manv children employed in such sho[i< or filaces wlio are under the 
 Fai.'tories age '. 
 
 Miss t'Ai;r,vi.i'.. — I do noi think so. 
 
 Inspector r>.\Ki;i:i!. — The School Act that we have now reipiires childitu between 
 eiuhl luul fourteen vears of age to go to school and in this city, at least, f think tliat 
 that law is pietty well enforced. 
 
 Inspector ifiiowx. 1 think that it could hp regulated. There are many places 
 which do not come under the Act where girls under fourteen are employed. 
 
 Mr. JfHV. — To the Coimnissioner. Does not your question apply to places that tlo 
 not come under the Kacttjry Act? 
 
 The Co\iMissio\i;i{. — Yes. only to such places. 
 
 ^Nlr. 0'|)oNoi;iu-|;. --T know <pf mv own expeiience I hiit there ai'e children under 
 agf! working in the factories. 
 
 Mr. (IriJOKSKV. — I could take you to places wheiv the children are making panis 
 with their mothers. These .•hildren are under the school age. They are employed 
 sewing on buttons, and t;he like of that. t know some of the factories where the inspec- 
 tors go, in which the children work aftei- school hours. 
 
 Inspector IJAHiiKtt. — In those circumstances you ought to let the inspectors know. 
 
 Mr. (iLROi'SKV.— They are their own children (the people who run the factories). 
 You nught go a dozen times and not see them working there hut I might see them any 
 day. 
 
24 
 
 .Mr. T(ii>i). 'I'lien the fjictmy inspectors wduld h;i\e pome dillic'iiUv in Ideiitiiiij 
 these cases. 
 
 The under a;nc (luestion is a liaid one to ;fet at. A irentleniaii I i<no\v — a foreman 
 in a factory \vher(^ a lar^'c number of hoys and yirls aic working — hasoften toi<i me tiiat 
 boys conu! to liim wliom he lieiioNcsare under age. liet(^ils them that lie cannot emphiy 
 th(n\ unless they aieoNcr fourteen, and of course they iminedialely swear tlial liun' are 
 over that age. You cannoi get the registry of births Ijecause not one buy in Ini is 
 registered. 
 
 ^fr. (ii:i!Oi'si\\.— There is a phicc wliere \ou cm go toni'iri'ow, a tailoi' sliop on 
 }I;igerman Sti'eet, wiiere, should they not notice you eomiiii;', you will lind a whule tamilv 
 of children working. 
 
 Tlie (Jo.MMIssioNKi!.— -d low niaiiyhours const it.ute a. da\'s work in shops where the 
 day or week system olitains .' 
 
 Mr. ( i(;i!0i'SK\ . — As far as our i'oatsi)oji is concerned where a large number of men 
 are employed, the hours arc from 7 to ti ,.nd to ll' o'clock on Saturihiys. There was one 
 sh(.p wlieie I worked all iiours, vvliere oidy oim or two men are employed. The lialance 
 of the employees are girls. The hours are from 7.;!() to H and to I'J o'clocic on Saturdays. 
 
 y\)\ 0'I)oXO(illL'K. — Tiiere is one establishment near my )ilaci- wh"rc the hours arc^ 
 from 7.;iU to (i and to 12 o'clock .Saturdays. 
 
 Mr. ( Jt■UOl•■sK^■. -Tlie UHMi ill my shop lii\c to be thereat 7 o'clock, but the girls 
 com ■ in at au\' time up to 7. ■'!(,). 
 
 'J'he (.-OMMissiOMar. ^ llo\s many houis daily do piece hands usually work ; 
 
 Mr. Gui.'Oi'SKV. — iuEatous, whcriMhcy work piecewf)rk regularly, the hours are 
 from S to I), but. there is a place on iOli/abeth Street, wheic you can go at eleven ami 
 twelve o'clock at niglit and live o'clock in the morning and tiiul them working. Tliey 
 never seem to be doing anything else. 
 
 Mr. (J'iJo\o<;iiL"i:.-— \Vith rc'spect to that place on Elizabeth Street, it a]i]iears to 
 me they never sleep. It is on the east side of the street. 
 
 The CoMMlssi(j\[;i{.I)o you mean iiosen's place.' 
 
 Mr. (ii'Hoi'sKV. — Yes, they are all piece workers there, both men and u'irls. They 
 do a lot of work for Iviton s. 
 
 The t'oMMissioNKK. — They work for Eaton's pretty much altogether, I think. 
 
 ^Ii'. ( 1 1 iJoi'sKV. — There is anothei' place on ivlward street, %\l.ere they make pants. 
 ^'ou can go along there any tinic and find them working. 
 
 The C'OMMi.ssioxict;. — The place of I'osen's comes uiuler the I'"actory Ad. i think. 
 
 ]\liss Caulnm;. — Yes. 
 
 .Mr. (ni;oi-si\ V. — j don't thiidv that there are six working there now, not including 
 their own family. 
 
 The t'oMMissioXKH. — Still if they haxc ^ix with their own fannly that will do. 
 
 -Mr. O'i >oN0(;iUK. —Sjieaking in regard to the time in fact,>ries, 1 would just like 
 to ask the inspectors, do they lind the I'actory .\ct now scry specific so that the ipies- 
 tion as to what constitutes a <lay's work' and w hat constitutes overtime caiuiut be 
 aMiided by an ein]iloyer so desiring .' fan employers ii their factories now so arrange 
 the work so that inulit work can be counted as part of the day's work or otherw i>e '^ 
 As a mainifacturer would it be possible for nieto so arrange my men as to run theui day 
 and night .' 
 
 [nspector llnowx. -I la\ <> you ref(M'ence to men alone;' because the .\ct does not 
 apply to men aloiu'. 
 
 IMr. t)'l )o\oiiiiii;. — I am speaking of where ilie Act does .apply, can the enijiloyer 
 so arrange his time table? 
 
 Inspccloi' l>i!o\v\. — So long as iu> does not make his men cxceeil sixty hmirs per 
 week each. 
 
 Mr. GuitOFSK\. — In Eaton s or any fif these large establishments the power isne\t>i' 
 turiu'd olf. The employees eat their dinner in fnc unnutcs, jun the rest of the nu^al 
 hour in at work. 
 
 Inspector B.MiiiKii. — The law delinitely fixes sixty hours per week as the wrtrking 
 week, and there is no possibility of the employer makiitu' any alteration in the foims 
 left liiiu, bv which he can exceed those hours. 
 
ley 
 
 Ury 
 
 olll 
 
 III' (ilir 1 1|' tlirililli;' 
 
 , Ml. <>l>nN,.;mi:. Can !..• m, arranuv s,. tliat lie rau .•.m,).,.! -iris t,, wmk u.itil 10 
 illKJ I I () clncK at liiu'lil. 
 
 Inspect,.,- I'.AUiiKU. ^Yos. il„. lau ,!,„.> ,„.t tix w|,:,i l„,nrs u„i ,,fil„. t uvnt v-f.uir 
 thoy shall work. 'I hey .•an In-in at iii-iii lime ..r any tinir, s,, l,,i,n- a. <\u'V cl.. nm ex- 
 cpcil sixty Imnis pi'i' \\ (•(■k. 
 
 .Mr. ()|)n.vn,.iii K. Tliat is what I want,..] t.. know. Ii ,|.m>s ..cvur a; s.mi." nhuvs 
 iiiu t H. tactiuy iiispcrtui' ,, imi i,, hlan,,.. .Shrewd men hav<. watched ih.-lawaud 
 io.ike.l ml.) Its workings, an. 1 aic nt' i^\K,i\nu ih.at ii is ,,,,1 allo,M.| l,..r s,itisfaet..i \'. It is 
 a taet that smn.^ imi-ii do work their t'aniilirs atter lioui's at ni-lii, 
 
 Tl.o C'ommi.s,s|(,m:!,.. lim 1 1,,.,, ii umild re.|iiire an aiiiiaiduient to t he A.-l lo lix 
 the W'lrkiuu lioiirs between certain iiour^ in the dav. 
 
 Inspect. ,r |!ai;h|.;|(. -I lio n.it think it J. pnssii,|e to .lo it. Ther.. is a form must he 
 jiut m each tartoiy to ..ay wh.Mi they .hall iM-in and wlea, th.'V-li.all ,piit. It is (en 
 iioiirs a day, and ev.-n if they work full tiiiir .,n .Saturd 'V. th,.v'niM-t noi cx.t,.,I sixty 
 luHirs for 111.' wei'k. and must .piit at >ix oVluck Satnrdav. .,r '.,1 herwi-,.. tli.v .are Ii, d,fe 
 t.) pn.socuti.ui. 1 do not s,'c how ihey.-.n, uei .'v.-r mxI v hours per w,'..k w,ih.. 
 evadiny' tli.' law. 
 
 The Commissi. )Ni:i;.--| und.'rsi 1 M |-, o 1 )on..-iiucs ,|u.'stion t.i h 
 
 iiiylit int.i day. 
 
 Inspector l!.\i!iii:i; ; You can work t.-n Inuirs a , lay whet her in daylight ..!■ dark- 
 ne.ss. .Some three ..r four y.'ars a-.. I iccrixed ,i complaint tli.at i h.' L,'iVls""in a ster.'..- 
 typing estahlishmenl on .Mrlinda .Street, w,'iv workin- lat.' at ni-ht. " 1 v.roH'tosay 
 that the Fact.ory Act .lid not ini.afere s.t loui,' as the houis were not exceded. The p,ar- 
 ties making the .■oniplaint were not sati.ti.'d and intc vi.'w cd i h.' Att.irn.'v (icicral on 
 the matter an. I l;o( th-' same reply from him. 
 
 .Mr. CfKoFsKi. In the case ot a family tliev mi-lit iie workinu' until ten oclo.-k 
 every ni^'lit. 
 
 Inspiector r.\i;iu;i;. Thai is tiaie enoiiuii and strictly spe.akinir not in accoi'dauce 
 with the Factory Act hut th.at was mad.' lo r.'-ulate places empl.iyinu- tw.'iity pooph' .ir 
 iiDre ami ^certain r.-ulati.ms niiuht 1m- a haniship where l.-.ss tl'i.-in six people are cm 
 {iloy.'d. The law conti'iiiplates a litll.- ! "uci' workin-- .lay on ordinary days t.i shorten 
 the hour.s .>ii Satuclay. It m.iy he somi-whai Mivichiii- th.' i-'aclory .\.-t. however, 
 to say that you should work late on Kri.lay to make up lost time. 
 
 The CoMMi.ssioMj;, In theoas.^of week ..i- day hands is it usual loha\e a stint. ir 
 task set as a day's woi-k .' 
 
 Ml-. (Jii!Oi',sKv. it i. not necessary. It is not done on principle. The man who 
 takes WDi'k to he done on .■ontr,ai-t knows how manxopei-at.u's, liasters, etc., are required. 
 The work is pas.sed thr.iugh so many haiuls, each iiavini; theii- own specilic work, wlu.-h 
 has to he done in a certain time or n.j more work is -i\en out t.. that party. The whole 
 system works like marhin.'ry. 
 
 Tht! CoMMi.ssi iNKi!.-— I iioti.-ed in tlie evidence yiven h.^fore the I'nited Stat.'s 
 Cousressional Commilt.'e that it was sai.l hy some witnesses that they ha. 1 to work 
 away into the second day to make iiji tin- lir-t day's work. 
 
 Mr. (i^;uol•■sl\■^ .--That is oftei; the way in tlu' states. In onr own shop we i^ener- 
 ally maua-je to finish so many c.)ats a .lay. The work, howev.-r, is so .arranu'ed that we 
 start in the mornine- and tinish at night. We hav.- n.it nuide a hargiin w th tli.> i),(ss 
 that w(> (!,. so many .-oats a day, y.-t it is eummonly un.lerst.iod tjiat it is t.i lie done. 
 iV[y h.',a,d ma'i siitin- here will hear me out in tin- -taiement that w.' feel if we do not 
 get through th.-re will be tr.uible. 
 
 The (JoM.MissioNMR. — You icali/e that if il is not fK)iie .some one else will uet v.nir 
 place. 
 
 Mr. (Jiiiotsivv, — Th-it's about it. 
 
 Ml'. SMIiKliM.W. - S.)m.' (lays the loss expects too much, then we niak.- a kick. 
 We g.'ii. 'rally do tsventy six coats a day eaih. 
 
 The C.>MMissio\i:u. — |)oes the system .tf 'ininu tor imin'ifect or partially spoile.l 
 work pirevail to any .'xtent '.' 
 
2(1 
 
 .Ml'. (!ii!n|-,sKV. — Tlicy don't OiiU it. a line. Tt' any <inc s))()ils woi'k it is tlm custom 
 ot the trade that lie liiis to pay for It, Of Hot. In sonic warclioiises they make a prac- 
 tice ot' linini,', as you niiiilit call it. A woman hiiiius in In^r woi'lc. 'I'Ik' t'orainaii says 
 " 'J'liat dof^s not li'o " and [ii'ctends to lind snme dct'ei t. Il(! clieiks so nuicli f>i: her 
 money. It siie (Iocs not take wliat he Liiscs her lie says "There is no more work for 
 yiii!.' AN'e understand that it is carried on to a ureat e\teni liy oni' \\a."ehous(- liere. 
 'I'iie woman nii^ht say that, shi' wouhl take tiie work' hack and finish it ])ro|iei!y, hut. to 
 tin's the I'orcman would say he could nnt wait, she lived too far away, liie worii ".''as 
 wanted at once, or some like excuse. Then he would check her three cents oi' nun'c, as 
 the ease may he. 
 
 The CoM.Mi^i.sioNKK. — Do you get the ;:uods that you spoil ,' 
 
 Mr. (lUHOKsicv. — Not that I know o.'. It' we spoil a pieu(i worth so much we have 
 to make it yood. 
 
 Mr. ( )'l)o\o(iiii;i:. — Have you the ))rivil(>L,f(! of taljintr it ' 
 
 Mr. JtliV. — if you sjxiiled a sleeve you would liaM' to take the whole coat. 
 
 Mr. t !ri;oKsKV. \ younu' fellow workini; in my ^Imp once spoiled a sleeve and 
 had to pay for it. idedid not tluuK it li.idly dam.iu'cil and houuht. some ,,f the >anu' 
 cloth and made himself a coat. 
 
 The CoMMissioNicu. - What are the usual wages for hands who vork Ity the week .' 
 
 ^\r. (ri'itoi'SK V. - For men who aie ojieiators — there ai'c not niany of us here —the 
 liest men gel sll a week, and the wa^es run down lo .-'•") and ■■^\. This gentleman iiere 
 (]). anting to Snidci'man) is the oidy man in Toronto who gets o\er s| 1 per week. At 
 one timi' ]iressers used to get Sl' per day. Now, instead of having one man tf) j.ress the 
 wdiole uarmenl they ha\i' four. < ine fiU' ihe seams one for the collai' and s.i on. Ihey 
 pay these men from s'l to .-^r) per week wiicre formerly one man would do the whole 
 thinu and make ^['2 per wet-k. He had heen paid as low as S'.l }ier week and as high as 
 s I I . 
 
 Tht! CoMMissKJN'KU. — I low aliout tlH> women? 
 
 Mr. (<l"l!oi'si\Y. — They run all liie way from seventy live rents. 
 
 The Co.MMissMXKR. — A week .' 
 
 Mi-. ('UHor.sKV. -Yes, up tit stj, and I douht if there are half a dozen women earn- 
 ing o\(M .-<('i. Tlu> usual w/iges is S.'' to ^'l.on ; hut •'-^;') is a fair wage. 
 
 'J'lie C'oMMissioNi;ii.-- Sjieaking of these girls, are tlu'v supposed to know the 
 trade? 
 
 Mr. (il'UOFsKV.- Those earning seventy-liv^' cents ktiow some branch of it. 
 
 The Commission Ki(. — What is the average age of the women eiaployed .' 
 
 Mr. trfiiOFSKV. — Oh, all ages IG, 17, 18 and up to 'M years of age. 
 
 "dr. (> l>o\0(;iui:. — Do you think that si or 8+.oU is abcjve the average ? 
 
 Mr. <iri{OFsKV. - Taking them as a whole T doubt if they would a\erage sd. T 
 may say that tliei'c are live men in my shop. ( )ur axcrage wage is r^'' ']. The girls 
 thf;re average sl. It has been my experience that in shops where men are employed 
 the wages are higher than where . ■■ men are em|iloved. Slaving the ineu in the sliop 
 has the ti-ndency to increase wag<-- of both girls and men. 
 
 Inspector I'liioWN. -With reference to wages of women. ()ii one occasion I accom- 
 panied a reporter to a number of sjiops in the city making iiupiiries. 1 remember one 
 sho|i where we went ami the waues paid ranged from ■"-^1 to^.'J.oO per week for a finisher. 
 When asking tlu^ employer Ikjw they could sustain themselves on sut'h small mean.s he 
 ref)lied that he f)nly got thirty-seven and a half cents each for making coats and could 
 not alFord to give any luLdier wagt?s. 
 
 .Mr. GuiiOFSKV. — Tt is only within a short time that the vv.age.s have gone up to the 
 average I mentioned. Thei-e has been a scarcity of hands— many having gone over to 
 the Cnited States, and the wages have gone up for tho.se who remain. 
 
 'i'he CoMMissio.NKH. — How abait children s vva^es .' 
 
 Mr. GuROFSKY. — They generally work for nothing, learning the trade. 
 
 The CoMMis.sioN'Ei!. — Is the tendency, as judijed bv the experience of recent year.s, 
 toward higher wages or lower ? 
 
 «&■ 
 
2T 
 
 Mr. (,!i KOI'SKV.— T TOiild not do justice to tli;it .|U('.stioii. Mv \vii,i,'("s luuc jronc up 
 some I'f'coiitly for tho re ison f mciitioncl, a, srjircitv of liiuids. 
 
 The ('()MM!.-;,si(iNKi(.— For ,1 iuhiiImt ot' v(!ar.s p'lst wlmt li;is Ix-cii tin' tendency? 
 
 y\v. (U'HOl'SKV. 'l"o lowci'. 
 
 Insjiector I'.AKiiKii. — My experience Ims hinted over some yeai's. and ;is I liave taken 
 ail interest in the mutter, I have found lliat the w.iichotisemei: were heating; down the 
 prices to the eonlraeors : and wliih' many eontraetors re(hice the prices to theii- workers. 
 in other ca^es contractors t( 11 me tiial I hey were payin;L;- the same prices to tiieir wor'kers 
 as foi-merly and tl;us losinn- tlienis(dves. Some of these conlf k tors ha\e i,'one to takin.L; 
 work away from otiier contractors. 
 
 3[r. (iriioi'sKV. - 'i'iial i^ a fair answer to the (piestion. 
 
 Mr. Jri!V.--In 1S7:1 l") and d just, after 1 lirst came lo Toronro, tirms like Hohert 
 Walker and 1!. .1. llnnter, hnth used to make up larL'e i|uuntities of stock work in their 
 slack time. Thi y used to pay 8-'>.">0, si and Sl.oi.). for their West made nveicoats. 
 These men tell me there are no such prices paid now. 
 
 -Mr. (It l;()|■sK^ . Y^iu can uel the hest stock made coat now for si. ofi and the 
 money for cotton, etc., comes out of the poi-kets of (he woi'kers. 
 
 The CoMMKssioNKi;.- [n such divisions of the trade as show teiiden<'y to hiL;her 
 wages, does (he rise appear to he due to i-omhinations amonu' the cmplovees. loiietter 
 prices for the finished clothing, or to a scarcity of competent wuknien ? ( )r is it, to tie 
 accounted for in any other way ! 
 
 Mr. (^Ui;ol■'sK■^ . In some instances the tendency has lieen to increase the wages 
 hecause thei'e is a scarcity of com]ietent ojieraiors. I'.ut in the cithers where there is no 
 lack of (inisher^', pr ~;sers, etc., the wages ha\c gone down. The wa^cs ha\'e aUo gone 
 down in the lo^'.er grades of djiera tors. In my hranch. wages have gfine up owini; to 
 the scarcity of competent hands. It is (lie same wa\- with the girls. .V numher of 
 e.xperienced girl ojieratois got married recently, that, has had the tendenc\- to mal<e the 
 wages of remaining competent girl o))(Mators go uji. 
 
 'J'ht> ( ViMMissioNKK. Then 1 undeistand yoiu' answer i(j he that in cases of im-rease 
 
 in wages in any hrancli of the work ir is du(> to a scarcitv of competent woikers in that 
 braiich .' 
 
 -Mr. Gt'uoi'SKv. Yes. 
 
 The CoMMissKiM-.i!. — W'luM'e ^wlges ha\e fallen or show a tendency to fall, has it 
 been due to an over supply of workers and resulting competition for employment ; to 
 reduced prices of clothing : to the use of improved inachiner\' and appliances : to di\ ision 
 of labour and ihangis in metliods of manufactmc ; to combinations of emplovers ;-oi- to 
 any other sjiecilic reason or reascuis .' Su])pose that we deal liist with this jiart of the 
 (pi(>stion — "Has it been due to an over .sujiply of wor'kers and resulting coui]ietil ion for 
 employmeitt ? '' 
 
 ^fr. (!t'i!orsKV.--'rhe prices ha\e come down tinough cont raitors. They make 
 particular efforts to dr;iw more people into the tiade. N<iw theyha\egoi plenty of 
 men they keej) inducing new ones to com(> in and thus reduce tie wages. 
 
 The CoMMlssniNl'.U. What about the rediictioi; in the price of clothing ? 
 
 I\rr. (ii"i;oi'sKV. The warehousemen cut down the prices right along. Th(> con- 
 tractor h IS to make his li\-ing, and he in tm-n has to crush someliody else. 
 
 Insfiector IJ \ifiii",i!. — That <lepression of wages can be accoinited foi- by the same leu- 
 sou as the i.ite if wages in other trades, 'i he general tlepression oscr America and other 
 parts of the world for the past two or three years. I think myself that is the inain 
 cause. 
 
 Mtv. (!ti!oi-SK'V. "1 know for a fact that if clothing was sold direct from the manu- 
 facturer, it wtjtild be better. .\t least 200 per cent goes to the man Itetween. 
 
 Inspectijr J!.\i!isi:it. — Clothing is cheaper. 
 
 ^[r. tii:i!OisKV. — Yes, though it may be cheaper, a gre.it deal of the prolit goes to 
 otlier peo|)le, tiiere are too many come betweens. 
 
 The CoMMtssioNEii. — AVhat effect has the introduction of machinery and modern 
 appliances had '. 
 
^mm 
 
 28 
 
 .Ml. f !i'l(iii'-<l\ V. 'I'lic idiitriu'turs in tliiscily arc licit up in dali' wi( li ici^'aiil to 
 
 uiiicliiiifiv .' 
 
 The UoMMlssi'iNKi:. li.isc llii' wau'is Ijccii icdiicwl hfcauso of marhiiii'i y .' 
 
 .Mr. (iriioi sK\. Nii; l>iii ihc iuiimImm- nl' mcii lias Iutii rcdiiccil. It lias rcjilaccd 
 haiiiU and llirown tlu'iii i.u ih-' market. 
 
 Mr. ToiM). — Wo'ilii not that account laru'dy tor the Licncral dc|)rcs.sion .' So many 
 woikinu men arc thrown out, of cmjiloyiiicnl and arc pleased to take any kind of work, 
 liowevcr ill jiaid. 
 
 TIk! CoMMI.s.-'Iom:!;. What al)oiit coinliinations ainoiii,' einploycis ? 
 
 Mr. (Ii, liiii'si;^ . i'licy lia\c not l:"!. aii\' here, in Toiotito. 
 
 .Mr. ( )'|)oNoi,in t. \'i),i mean in that ]iarl iciilar line the dot liiir^' trade .' 
 
 .Mr. ( iiKot'sK V. — Yes. 
 
 .M I . .1 ii;^ , --'i"hoUL;li tlicv h;i\c no m naiii/al ion liaAc ijics not a mutual uiider- 
 .standing that thc\ will not pay aliove a certain |irii'<' ,' 
 
 .Mr. (U lioi SK N . \'c-.. Tiial is pii't^y well understood, (leneially. ihelirst ipie.s- 
 tioii asked is, hou mucli did you ';ct at the other ])lacc '. 
 
 The CoMMissio.VKK. — 'I'liat i>\' collide applies lo ihe I'oni i aitors .' 
 
 Mr. ( IfiioisKV. Yes. 
 
 .Mr. C.\i;i;^. 1 'o ikpI ihe m.i,;'i;.:''t urcrs l he wimlcsalers - iindeistand what prices 
 are paid each other .' 
 
 .Mr. (iiiioFsKV. 'riii'N' all know jiretty well what the oilier uiic pass. Tliev t rv to 
 obtain t he int'oiniai ion. 
 
 Till' Com. Mis.sio.NKii. is the trade aH'cctcd \t\ iininigrat ion or by transient workmen 
 coniing from the I'liited States? 
 
 .Mr. (it■KoFSK^. — La-'t year a loi of I lu-m came o\ (>r here from the I'nitcd States 
 and \\c had a surplus nf •ijiriati is of all kinds all we could get. When Irailc picked 
 lip in the Stales maii\' v col hack and the coiiipi^tciit ones left here have li.'iiclited. 
 
 Tlie CoMMis^io\i:i!. Has it Ihmmi atl'eci(<l by foreign iii.ide (-(.ntracts '. 
 
 Mr. (Ifiioi'sKV. — J cannot tell that. 
 
 Mr. Toil!). It liap|iened onci- in .^^ontreal ihniim a strike that a iiriii of cigar 
 makers made a coiiiracl with a llrni in Itoston and brought a number of men to 
 3lontreal. 
 
 The Com.mis.sioni.:k. — I remember tiie ( iise. 
 
 Mr. Jtin. -j\ similar case occurred here when the (lurne\- .Manufacturing 
 Company had a strike of their moulders. The\- went to .VIbaiiv, cngau'ed a number of 
 iiioulilers and brought them here. 
 
 Mr. ToDli.-— In the case I mentioned the men brought to .Montreal were (iermans. 
 They were assured th.at everyl liinu was all right and they would get certain wages, 
 AVhen tlicy found that they were to lake the places of strikers, tlie\ went back on their 
 conti'act and the majority o'' them \sent back to jjoston. 
 
 Mr. C.viiKV.— I -aw that recently a lirm ciigagcd in the iiicycle trade, located at 
 Toronto .) unction, brought a superintendent and foreman from {\n\ diiti d States and 
 engaged them there. 
 
 Insjiector I! \i;iii;if. - In {..ondoii there i^ a cigar factory making |iure lia\ana 
 cigars. The manufacturer told me that all his cigar makers were imported from Cuba 
 because he belicxed that the (,'ubans could turn (jut a luater article and spoil less 
 material in the m.iking than local men. 
 
 '{"he Com\iissiom:i;. — ( >f course tlieie is nothing in oui' jircsent laws to prevent a 
 man from coming ii'der contract from aiiothei- country here to work. 
 
 Mr. .Itin.- i'-ut we have a statute that makes the contract null and \ oid as soon 
 as the "imported " man gets into ( intario. 
 
 The CoMMissioNj-.ii. - I'lie man can break it certainlv. iUit if he come.s into the 
 country without money, lie is liable to keep it unless the men out on strikt; have luoiiey 
 to supiKirl him. 
 
 y\r. O'l >o\oi:in"i;. -The intent of the law at the time it was framed was to diNil with 
 a class of men who wei-e imported. Tliey are a class in which it is bttle adxant.igc for a 
 ni.in to ^et into. T,;e\ kn.iw a- a rule v hat they are being imported for. 'i'hey state 
 
29 
 
 iricos 
 
 tli.'it it i- <,nly on coiisidoratioiMif wmk at fail' wa^vs that i!icv luml i iH^msclvrs to 
 (•..inc. Vi'iy ffw of them can lie luMsiiadrd ic, iro away. Wc haVc n . |au- |.iv\ fiit iiiu' 
 tlic iiiipoftiition (iiul that to my iniiid is the most scriiiiis jiliasi' ,,( thr diliicidtv. 
 
 'I'lic CoMMissioSKi;. .\V,.|i, at uiiy fate, even if the ( »,itarin Lv.v is defecti've it is as 
 far as tlie ( 'onsl it lit ion allows the |M'o\iiicr to yo. 
 
 Ml-. .llU\. 'I'hc linioiis all'ectrd by tile -Irike. will siilil.oit a in.in if |||. is wiiliiii;- 
 to break ills emit lact. 
 
 Mr. ()'IVi\o(;iiti;. -In all the ea.ses that have come uu(U-i my iiutie,. t'orovei thirty 
 years tbese men were jiist ilied in hivakin- the contracts. In evi-ry instance they made 
 conlra^ets or were .■aiiu'lil, you inie-ht >ay, under contracts by false I'ireleiises. 
 
 Tiie CoMMissii.M.i;. Ill the siiops and other places which lo not come tinder the 
 provisions of the Factories .Vel. are liie conditions usually or often iiMsauitarv ! 
 
 .Miss (J\i>'L> i.i-:. - I do iKii think ihcui \erv sinitar^. 
 
 'I'he CoMMlssioNKi!. .--If you were I,, \i-,it a, plai'c thai (dd cume under tlie|iin 
 visions of tlu' Factory Act, but lia.d not jiroper saiiit try con.jitions, would vnu consider 
 it a ri,yl.i. liiinir to do to <ir(h'r the conditions to b' cliann'e i .' 
 
 Atiss C.vuLYi.i;. -Ve.s. 
 
 .Mr. JuHV.— So far as niy (wperience i;-oes. in tailors' back shops, as a rule, there is 
 only one set of s iiiitary convenieiiei's, for male and female — not private. 
 
 Insjiector Ukown. -^-In nianv cases, ,is Mi. .[ury states, they ha\-c only the ..ne 
 coiiM'iiience, but in oth(;r oases there ari^ iikmc than the oee convenience, altlmueh not 
 belencriiiu- to the same factory. I lia\e endeavoured to ariaiiee tiiat there .-iio'dd be one 
 for males and one fi>r fenrdes, and that where there is only the one closet, it sliould be 
 for the use of the females, and rather let the males go out. I went to see one iilace 
 where the man vvas just startine- in the bi;siiie>s. 1 asked him if lie intended to em- 
 ploy females. On his answering yes, J told him that he must not atiempt to employ 
 girls until he had a proper convenietice for them, and, if he did, i would prosecute hiiiii. 
 Jie moved, ;iiul I could not again liiid him. 
 
 .Mr. (UiKOi'SKN. -is that all you mean by the question just i lo-.(>ts f 
 
 The CoMMissioxici!. -No, it is intended to cover the whole t|uestion as to whether 
 th(; shops are luMlthy or not. 
 
 Mr. (Jl;l!0I■'SK^■. There are shops in which gas-irons are burnii);f all the time. 
 Tl'.cre are no attemiils at proper ventilation. .Morninu and night, from twelve to fifteen 
 gas-lights are buriiiny,' for alioiit two hours, and the stove is going all the time. I have 
 not heard of any establishment iieing ordered to be yiropeily ventilated. The inspectors 
 look over the clo.sets, but do not see the establi-,hmi'iits tliemselves. 
 
 Inspector l>.\i!i:i:i(. — l suppo.se that this discussion is not in order. Mr. Curofsky 
 speaks al)oiit ventilation. Of cour.se it is very bad where gas irons are used, not (.nly iii 
 tailor shops but in laundries, and in tailor shops there is no machinery foi supplying 
 fans for artilieial vciitil.itioii. In the winter season esjiecially, there is ait to lie an 
 accuinulation of foul air. < >ii 'he (.ther hand, there seem- to be onlv oik> wav to secure 
 proper ventilation — through open windows. Tliere is, Iidwcvit. <ibieciioii raised by 
 those workii\e near the windows, should they be opened. The jicople in the centre of 
 the room, of course, would not feel the drauuht These are some of the dilliculties iiiot 
 with in the matter. 
 
 Inspector r>itow\. — I have often found the saiiii' dillicully that .Mr. I'.arber speaks 
 of. I reniemlier, in one place, asking the men if they had any oiijections to hav ing the 
 windows opened. These men were working in the centre of the room. Tliev answered, 
 certaiidy not. i'lie men near the windows did not want them opened. 
 
 Mr. (il'Koi'SKV. I think that there should be ways devised to propei'lv ventilate 
 such establishments. If it could not be done without expeiisi\e iirrani^ements, the 
 bosses should be made to go to the e.\pen.se. 
 
 The CoMMissioM'.i;, — The factory inspectors of course are onlv alile to ajiplv the 
 hiw as it stanils. 
 
 JNlr. Cahicv. — Is it not the duty of the Factory Inspector if the onditions are such 
 as will likely be injurious to the health of the [leople to report them f 
 
30 
 
 InsiH'cliir iJiiiiUN. — T will tell Vdii uf a [.Lue ; over the Aiiiiy anl Nii\y stoics on 
 K ti^f Slret'l. I went into ili(> shop ami could lia-dlv Iji'ojitlic t'ur steam, iicut and tlic 
 siiioll tVoiii tilt- j;as iinii>. I fould not pvi'ii sue the ,i,'irls. hut that was an i!XC('|itioiial 
 ofi'asion. I'sc lifcn lo i he plai-e at (ttli( r times and found it mucii lietlcr, 
 
 Mr. S'litAi 11 \N. It w lia\(' a Factory Act it scciiis to me that it is the duty of tlio 
 iiispictms to sec that the rooiiiH they \isil arc lit for the oiicrat ions carried on. 
 
 inspccioi J5i;o\\N. l'rrha|is \oii might go to ,i shop such as I hasi^ dcscrili ■(! at 
 another tiinc and not llnd tiie same had conditions. 
 
 .Mr. ( Iiiioi'SKV. -" I know of shops not larger than this room in uhich lifieen people 
 ai'e w oik iiii,' there under I he c oiidii inns I have pr(i\iously descrihed. 'I'Ik- only fresh 
 air that i;ets into the ruuni t'oines when some one opens the door to go out, into the hall 
 or enters from the hall. I do not think that Dr. Slieard will say that such a state of 
 things is in accordance with hygienic rules. 
 
 The ( 'oM\iissioNi;i!, -The oiii' that Mr. limun speaks of is \cry niuih hcttei than 
 the one \ou de.sci-ihe I should judge. I was in I hei'o only I he other day ami it looked 
 pietty comfortahle. 
 
 I nsjiector I! \iir.i;i!. - 1 rather think that we ,ire encroaching a little on .Mr. \\ right s 
 time. 
 
 Mr. 'i'oiU). ] think it is perfectly in order if the gmieral conditions are sucli as 
 .Mr. ( iuiofsky has descrihed. I think myself it is the duly of the Insiiectors to I'epiu't. 
 
 Iiispector Ji.Miiil'.R.- I li,i\e never had a complaint from him concerning any of 
 these jilaces (to ( J ur(»fsky) they .ire so had you should let the inspector know. 
 
 Mr. (ii'HOKSK V. -- 1 think the lady inspector \i.-iled one of them more than once, 
 ."^lie does not appear to ha\e don(» much good. 
 
 The (.'oMMissioNj;!!. — T asked the i|Ueslion hec.iiise it, he.irs on the iiextr one. 
 .\re the larger shops, hy reason of lia\ine- to comply with the pro\isions of the 
 Factories Act. placed at a disad\antage as I'omparcd with these smaller sho|)s .' 
 
 .Mr. < )'] )o\oi:iifi:.^ — It i^ reasoiiahle to sup])ose that they must lu ssarily he ]ilaced 
 
 at a \eiy iinfaii dis.ad vantage. 
 
 The L'o.M.Missio.NKU. - .My re.ison for asking that i(Uf.'stion was that 1 can easily 
 uiidcisiand that we might he alile to makt; out good cause for extending the ])ro\isions 
 of the l''aelory -Act. J'ul no .\et will lie of any use if the employees do not do their fair 
 share in ha\iiig it enforced. 
 
 Mr. ( i iKoi-sK Y. — It would he as much as any man s joh was worth to )h^ found 
 giving inforiii.ilion. 
 
 Insjieclor r>.vi!i;i;i!. if men who are inter(?-.ted would notilly us ahout iheii' own 
 ]ilaces hefoie gi\ing us the names of others they would he ser\ing theiiiscKcs to a gooil 
 purpose. 
 
 Mr. CAl!l•;^. -Any man who would do so would heat the disadsantage that liy 
 gi\ing information his position would not he worth much to him. 
 
 The (Jo.M.MissioN-i:i!. — Anonymous letters have a standing now. 
 
 Mr. C.XHKS'. — Is it ri;;lit for anonymous letters to he recognized '. 
 
 The Commission!;!!. — ^'t's, under such circumstances T should say Ihey should he. 
 
 ilr. C.\!;!•:^. — 1 am gl.ul that has heen hrought out. I did not understand that 
 anonymous letters would he recognized, and 1 do not think that it was generally known. 
 
 Inspector l>.\i!m;i{. — I am told hy .Mr. iirown that he had a good deal rather that 
 any comjilaint any person had to m.ake other than ahout his own shop should come 
 through the Trades and Lahour Council. 
 
 ]Mr. ( )'l)oNO(:!!ri-: — I think this matter is somewhat out of order. The hcst thing 
 we can do is to arrange for a meeting some night at wiiicli the wliole (piestion can he 
 discus.sed. 
 
 ]Miss C.viiLViJv — It has heen said that T have heen at a particular estahlishment 
 mentioned but have not accomplished much. The jiroprietor has hi.s instructions, but 
 w(f cannot get all done in one day that we would like. If it is not done the man knows 
 the conse([ueiices. 
 
 Mr. 0"DoNOiiiiui;. — I have kept that ciuestion in view during the last year. More 
 than one instance has come under my notice of where young women with whom I hap- 
 
:n 
 
 |,<>ii to hv iicnunuliMl iiKuIr ,-,.iii|.laiiit. ;i,-, t,, III,. |,|arrs ilicv uriv uorkiii:; ill, jtislilialil.. 
 roMiiiliiiiits ton. It, w,,iil(l ill my (,|>irii.>ii l». to t|ic iitinust iidvaiit.iHi' n. l,r,,a,|rn I lii' 
 Hi'oiK" nf the law s,. as t(r i^ct at cvci-.v plac.. not now cov.'ivd hv the l'',iclniv Art in i|„. 
 illtCMOst of tll^^(• u ho well' ('iii|)loVf(l. 
 
 Th(< (:;oMMissio\i:i(. -Anil in the intnvst of ih,. man who has a ta.l.Mv thai ilo.-s 
 tonic utiiler the Act,. 
 
 Mr. O'hoNiHiiii K. Yi.-. It w,,nl,| 1„. i,, il,,. mainial a<lvaiita-.- nf th.' -■■mTal 
 iicalth of the romniiinity ih It ih.- sco],c of t he .\ct, should hr svid. nrd. \\hrr."yoiin;r 
 womciL all! niiploytnl ihry aiv si-iisiiive ahoiil, uiakihi;- comiilaiiits, and it is only hy pc" 
 soiial af.|uaiiitaiK'<' and fronrwhat, otluT ,:,'ifK iia\c told my own daii;,dit('rs, thai l' lia\o 
 learned of a eonilition of tliin;,' simply outra-eou.s. Ihit the Factoiv .Aet .hies not lea.li 
 tiiat condition Mt ihin-s, an. I I am [.erfectly sati.stied that it s.-ould'he a material ail\an- 
 tu«,'e to hav.. it extended liecaus,. I helieve that theiv arc a lar-e numl)er of plarvs « heif 
 the numher ..f the jieople .•mpl'ived d.. not .-omo within the iv,|in'rements. jlut in the 
 a,lij,'i'e;.,'ate tlies.. peopl,! (families and s,. ,,n; .'uv i.'reati.r in numher than those wIum' the 
 law does apply. 
 
 The CoMMissioVKi!. Theiv is no .piestion ahoiit that, 
 
 ?»Ir. ()'l)i)\o,.iiiM;. -Then the ,iim ot the law ^hould h.' for tiie _(m»1 .,f ih,. u'iv.it''st 
 mimlier. 
 
 Th('CoM.MlssioM;i!. Av,' the pr.)visi,,ns ,,t' ilie l^'aelories .\et satisfart.aih cnforcHl. 
 and doi's the Act j,d\(! general satisfa.'tion .' 
 
 -Mr. .IiliV. — 1 don't think it is hardly fair foi' t li.. lnsp,T!ors to unload themselves 
 upon men who \\,,rk in the factories, Mr. r.;iilH'r has i..l,| ns thai h.. has no dillicidtv 
 in ,1,'ettiii-' fioin the whol. s.ilers a list of pl.ices where their uork is done. N.,w if he 
 .qots such a list fr.)iii i h.- wli.il.'sale men thems.lves. why cannot h.', as on.! would think 
 it his duty to do, ^o to these places of hi^- ow n indinat i..n and .see that ih.'v conf.>rm to 
 tlie Act. If that is not done, I d.in't think that it will e\ci yive sati.sfa.t inn. The mer(' 
 fact of the Inspe.'tor going into .Mr. (inrofsky's facti)ry casts suspicion ..n him 
 ((jurofsky) h.'caiise he is known as a laljour agitatoi'. 
 
 inspector r..\i;iii;ii. — It does not matter to me whethei I get mv information 
 through a letter signed or .inonymously. 
 
 Mr. .lUKV. .Mr. i'arher said him.self th.at he could get t h.^ names and addr.sscs 
 fi'om th« wholesalers of the peopl.' who do work for them. 
 
 Inspector JiAitiiKii. I liav.' not consi.l.'r.'il il my duty to d.) that i'\ery veai. 
 
 'I'll.! CoMM[ssioM:ii. — I'roh.ihly th.'fe is I'.ioin \'ny mori' inspect.)rs. 
 
 Inspector l'..\i;nKH. -That is the trouble. I am umler the impression that in.-itcad 
 of criticising the inspe.'tor.s, it would l)e better if .some of these workmen would do tiieir 
 share towaids letting till' inspectors know of any grievances. No one knows so niucii 
 about it , as one who works in it. He should siate his L;rie\ances. and if not tt) the 
 inspectors then to the Trades and Labour Council. 
 
 M.r. <)M)o.\0(;iiri.: -In justici' to the inspi'ctors. although I agre.. in tii.> main with 
 what.Mr. Jury says, I will say that they h.ive a great (i'^.lof gmuiKl to c.)ver and 
 iliHicult work to perform. 
 
 inspector Ij.MiiucH. We have. 
 
 ^fr. <J'l)o\of;iifK. Other pi'oj.le don't think .so ap])arently, Init what T do say in 
 justice to them is th. t they will look into any cas.'. even if it comes under their n.itice 
 anonymously; but Ma.uld prefer that the writers attacli tl.i'ir names. If ue have .'om- 
 plaints to make let us lu.ike them. 
 
 Mr. ToDi). — A gr(>at many of these establishments when tliey are ii.>tilicd -accord- 
 ing to the evidence we have heard to-iught — that they are in an unsanitary condition 
 simply move off. It would give the inspector.s enormous trouble foll.)wing them up. 
 
 Mr. GiJUOFSKV. — I do not tiunk there are eimugh in.spectors. I made two com- 
 plaints, in a short time, as secr.^tary of my union, ^ly signature was attached to the 
 letters, if the insp.^ctor walks into any clothing shop in this city, 1 am the one who 
 gets the blame. The shop T am in now is the only one I could get work in. The lady 
 inspiector visited that shoj) one time when I happened to be out. \\'hen I returned one 
 of the girls told me of the \isit. I asls:ed what the in.spector ditl, and .she stated that 
 
she just liiiiki'ii ill urnl uillinui Mv|<iii;,' ;iii\ i|Ur'-i inn - wi'iit awiiy. She c'mic iiynin. I 
 lliiiik she liiid lici'ii ilii'i'i' twd of tliift' tiiiic< Ijiil. till' lioss Iddk tm iicLicc, If tlicrt' were 
 nilicf iii^|)i'('lnrs who roiild coiiic aioiiiiil .it. iiioic tVcinu'iit iiit('i'sal> tliiii lioss wtiiild 
 lia\c III ,il tend to it. I doii'l coiniilaiii almiii ilii' iiisjiccloi's. I am pel tVt'l I y >iat islicd 
 tliat llii'V do I lii'ir iliity, liiil llicir aic not, ciioiiiili nf tlifiii ti> uo luoiind iind \ jsit, all 
 liicsi' |i)ncr>. 1 don'i tiiiuU ihi' hossi's art' iiro.cciilcd nioimli. It wc iiad two or tlir('«> 
 in'osccutioiis we Would liuvc ii ditl't'n'iit stale ot lliiiiL,'.--. 
 
 Tln' ( 'oMMIss|om;|(, TIh'Ii lln- (ih-wit is jiiai'licaily thi-- The l''aiMoiy Atl in the 
 oiiinioi) nt' tliosc asseinlili'd here niiLlhi to I)!' I M iiadriiid M,as to take in -mallei- .--hoiiH. 
 and there should Ik' more iiis|ie(torN. 
 
 Sc\eral siiiees. —Yes. 
 
 ln-|ierloi' I'.iiowv. When the tin'teiy iiis|ireloi's were a|i|ioinlid I was nutilird li\ 
 tlu- (.'omniiNsiiiiier of I'liWIie \\oiK-s that the lalioui unions were lo make known anv 
 i'oiii|iluiiits to the inspeetors. 'I'here ail' not enough iiispeetors to j;o(i\('rthe province 
 with jusi ici- — and any one with coniinnn -riise can >uirly understand tliate^rn in t he 
 eit \' of 'Toronto lo ^o and seal rli out l lase plaees w mild lake half of I hr iiisp, ■dors' time. 
 There aie oi her places besides Tori nto 1(1 lir attended to. When yoii consider t he >i/,e 
 of the province \oii ouijlit to lia\(' siaiie little knowledge that a larue proportion of ili(! 
 UluUIld cannot lie projierly covered liy us. To ask the ilispc<'tors therefoie to '^ft a list 
 from wholesalers of pcnpli' who work lor them and thi'ii hunt lliesc people up is hardU' 
 fair. I tried ill one |iarticular season to Ihid oiii Nonicthin.; aloiii;' those lines in refer- 
 ence to dressmakers. < hit of fort v places \isile(l 1 did iioi meet two that came under 
 the .\cl. I do not think that it is riuiit. to cxjicct inspectors ti u'o Irottiiit; around like 
 that. We lia\e oil , placer; Ijcsidcv Toronto, ;ind when we ;ire speaking ahoul Toronto 
 it is N^cll to reiiicnilier in rei^aid lo sanitary condiliies, that the health ollicer- are 
 entitled to look inioihis matter |u--l as well as \\e are. The iiisirtict ions from the 
 Attornev < leiicral arc that where the health ollicers in cities or towns attend to such 
 iiiatlers llicy are to do o, and only in i-asi's w here coiii|>laint is made to us are we lo 
 take notice of them. It isscari'el\' the ihin-' thai \\ c should lie expi'cicd to triit .inaind 
 and do this. 
 
 .Mr. ('>Hi■■.^. — ff the .Vet as .Mr. I'.iuwn states implies that only in such cases which 
 Come to the iiispoclors they are to he attended to, then the law should lie not only 
 liixjadeiK^l 1ml more ileliiiitely understood. 'N.'ou will not i^et complaints from a man 
 Morkinij for a boss, by coiiiiiiL; forward to place his name on apiece of pajier and comiiiu' 
 forward to iiifonn on his cmiiloyer. Inicause if it comes to be found out he will be dismissed. 
 In the Trades and Labour ('ouiicil it is but an individual represeiilini; all the employees 
 of tli(^ slio]) who makes the statement, liiit bis name is taken down by the press and he 
 becomes responsible. If the inspector j;oes into a shoj) and speaks to a man or winnaji 
 that one is pointed out. as tlie one whri i;ave the informalioii. My uiidcrst.indiii!^' is 
 that the inspectors otiylit to visit factdiies ,ind workshops, and if the conditions are not 
 such as they should be it would bii their duty to insist u|ioii their beiiii; made so. I 
 think the duties of inspectors are not thoi'ouyhly understooij. And while this discussion 
 is a little way froui tlu; point, tlu? information bein^j; brought out ini.uht be well used, 
 because the Act is not at all .satisfactory from w hat has been said liere to-night. It 
 reiiuires either that the men who make the complaint will be protected by law or an 
 iiure.ise of insjiectors. While labour orj^anix.ations are not in fa\()'.ii' of more inspectors, 
 I think myself thai you can ^et enouuli inform.it ion hereto make a leijuest to the 
 i;o\ernmeni to so amend the Act as to make it iiiori^ applicable toall parties concerned. 
 
 The L'oMMissio\i;i!. --Do r understand tliat it would be likely tn lie the case that 
 the labour boilies woiikl object to the aj)pointuient of more inspectors? 
 
 .Mr. < >'I >(>NOi;iii't;. — No, littt they are opposed to the creation of unnecessary ollicers. 
 I understand tliat in IJritain children under a certain age before beint,' allowed to work 
 ir. a factory must ha\(^ reached a certain standard in school, and I think that any child 
 found in a factory who cannot read or write should be compelled to go to school. 
 
 Mr, .It liv. — I think it would l)e well to have a provisdn of that kind. It is easy 
 for inspettors — and I sav this ad\iscdly — to shirk their iluties by putting tht^ onus on 
 the shoulders of the workingmen. lUit 1 go into a factory as the friend of the fore- 
 
3» 
 
 lllilll nr sDiilc iif (he clllliloyrc'S. I siclilllc 1mi\s limiiiiii,' .inillllil wlmlil I ,1111 |iM-it;\c 
 ai'i' iiiidiT iiyc. Ill tliis cuiirici'tioh Ml'. .1 III y iii^ilfiiici'd llic ;;|uss t'ui'lniy iit I liuiiillnii. 
 I tloii'l w.iiit tn|i|;iy llic |i.irl lit' till' s|iy ami |im|','c iiit'unnal inn aijaiiiM a plai-f I visilfd 
 
 us a t'lii'iid. Tliry wniild h ixr s .mr rcasun tn lilann- im', kiniwiii^' that I am iiit .(t-d 
 
 iit Idmiir iiKiM'iiiriils. 'I'licM' iiicii art! a[i|>iiiiit('i| tn iiis|ii'('i. uiid n'|i<ii'l, and it mciiis tu 
 llic tlial it is t licir duly i<< ti<i md iMs|if>i'l. Nnl tu wail tor jiiivati- iiitMiinatioii, iiiil lii 
 yii and luok at'tci llir |ilaccs tlii'inschcs. 
 
 Mr. Sri.'Acii AN. I dmi't think it is ri,!,'lii to use tin- Tradi's and Lalioiir Cuiincil as 
 a 1 1 ml lit' i n fori natii 111. I dnii't^ I liiiik' that it \Miiild In; t lit- diiiy ut' t liat linaid tu I n 'run a- 
 iiit'ui'iiii'i's. 
 
 'I'lu' C.'(iM,Mis>iu\i:i,', I iiinlri --land .Mi. i'lailiiT tu iin'.in that wliiTr a inun dui's nut, 
 likr 111 1,'ivr ilii' iiil'iiiiiial iuii diircl, 111' ran -ivi' ii I liruiij.;li thr Trades and Laliuiir 
 ( 'uiiiH'il. 
 
 .Mr. Siit\rii\V. I duii't ihink lli.it wiiulil he rii;lit. 
 
 .M r. ( i iitui'sK\ . - As suun as ihi- iiis|ii rlur ;;oo.s iiilu a tiilui' sin ip i Iny immi'di.r I'ly 
 (•liari,n' iim svitli Inini^ the int'uiiii'r. .\ny |iruiiiinont man in tin- iiniuii in ui her trai Ics 
 --will he iinnit'diatcly fliar;,'rd. It' \uii had niuri' inspcrtiiis and iii'hi' visiturs thi-y 
 wuiild know th.it thi' iiispi'ctui s visited their esialilislinients lieeiuise it w.u their turn. 
 
 In<|)ectur r.\ifi!i';n. -It has liren said th.it this i^ an iipen meet in^. I dun't know 
 whelhei aii\' niie le'ii' is ir|iuii iii;4 t'ur the iia|iii< ur nul. It >ii, I Iiu|m- tlies will nut use 
 names, as a name h;is been meiiliuiu'd in cuimertinn '.\ ith a let ler makini; eiim|ilainl, 
 and i wuiilil nut, like any mie lu yet into truuhle u\-ei' it. As to Mr. .1 iirv's remarks, un 
 the Ul iit'.liilv l.i-l I he iie\\- law raiiie inlu t'liive, th;il eliildri'ii under I I years ut' ai,'ii 
 must nut, lie empluyed. I ;iiii pie|iareil In sa_\ that within the l.isl live years iiu children 
 under the au'<' Ii'IM' heen empluyed in tlii" ;,'lass faeturies. There has lieeii a 'eitaiii 
 aniuiint uf liustilily tu the insjiei-turs, and jieupje have lieeii .ijit lu make rash statements 
 that they could nut hack u|>. 
 
 .Mr. C.\l{i;\'. Speakinu' of u]ien nieetinu^ ,ind Mr. {'..irlier s st.iteineiits as renards 
 repuiters, I was simjilv ret'erriiiLC to nieelini;s ut' the Trades and Lahuur < 'uiineil which 
 are publico and attended hy piess represent;ili\es. Nuw, I kimw fur ,i jiusiiive fact that 
 there are men work iii'4 in the ij;las.s factory in I kiniiltuii. whu will !.;i\e I heir nauio.s — 
 and some in Turuntu wim will make their statements un uath that there are children 
 \\oikiii"' ill the glass factories vshoare nut yet fourteen years of age. 1 am not going 
 to lilame the inspectors for this. I will i,dve ymi another instance, and this is coming 
 liomo to individuals closely cunnocteil with myself. I went tu ihe jiarents of a hoy who 
 was at work and whom I knew to hi; under age I told tli m that tliey must take him 
 awjiy an 1 send iiim to school, or J wouKl lia\(Mliem compelled, ''.'hev did so. The 
 employers are not to a great e.stent to blame. They are in the .same |)iisiiion as the 
 inspector in tliat connection. it is the parents who are lu blame fui- falsifying the age 
 of the child. 
 
 Iiispcctui I'lAliUKK. I have recently \isited the glass faclury ,at llurlingiuii twice, 
 and on neitiier occasion was a boy Ichs than II years old employed. I have been told 
 in Hamilton that the worst people to sneak in child labour were the glas.s blowers them- 
 selves. They would sneak in their ch Idren in direct violation of the Act. 
 
 .Mr. .Ii itv. — Then it has been done. 
 
 Mr. (.'akkv. I would just like to say thai if the ins|)ector tiniN that >.i;i»e of things 
 
 lie should punish the men belonging to the lal)our unions, t'or they are as much to blame 
 as any one. 
 
 inspei'tor BuoWN. — \ must say that T li,i\e found some of the labour peoph' them- 
 selves ^riving false certiticiites. In one case in the city of lvini:ston I nut two false 
 certilicates from one man. 1 got at tlie truth simply by chance. The j.apers weie 
 given me one after the other, and in looking over them I found that one child was 
 declared to have been born in the month of November, b^TS, and the other in Decemljer 
 of the same yeaf. T went to the man'.s residence and saw his wife. I askeil if they had 
 the names of the children in the family Bible. Slit; suspected what was up, and I had 
 to find the I5ible for liei- and there I found the correct ages ; showing that neither were 
 of a"e. T told her to .send her husbanil to me. He came that night. He was a, 
 Gl— 3 
 
84 
 
 liifliilicr ol 11 liil)i)Uf ni';;iuii/ill i'lii, I said Vnii aii' mif ut' tlio^c ulio \\aiilr(l li Iia\r I lie 
 I'uclnrv All ptil iiitii ii|p«'nitiiiii, ami liric >iiii aiv yi\ iiiy t'aUc en I ilii'iiifs. "Well" siiiil 
 III' ■' .iiiiii' nt' till- I II 'I i| lie sail! v'oii Willi III iioi ill' III wii Ml I fill u liitiu liiiii' ai;aiii, anil it won Id 
 111' all ri"iil. I saiillliil i wmilil irpnrl ' li • iiial Irr, ami liliii. Tlii' At Im iii-y < Ii'iiiTiil 
 siiiti it. Wiis a liiiil I'liM-, liiil a> tlir iiiun was llirti mit ut' wnik it wii'4 uvcrliH.kcd, Of 
 rmiiNf, I lliink it \va-> tlir hi'sl t Inn;; thai rniilil lie dniH'. iis lie luiiiMi-^ril |inNili\i'l\ mil In 
 lfan-«u'ross ayiiiii. A uii'iil iiiaiis j;i\r fiilsc iTi'tiUnitrH. A nvi-n\ niuny rliildnii have 
 iifvcr Ih'I'II ii';,'istfi'i'il at all, iiiid tla' is ii ^firat iili>tar|i' In u'l'l tin;; al tJir aj;i'. \\li> n 
 thcv ail' KVcr II, nn riTl ilieatt's an- ri'iiiiiri'd al all, If any I'liiplnyi'i' sci-s In ii ihal 
 llii'cliililirn all' iif ayi' aiiil ;CitH a (•cititiraU' fiimi llir |iariiii'- llini In' i.s I lyiiii; tn 
 
 raii\ mil till' pi'iiN i^imis of tin' Art, lait if lie I'liims ■■• In a pi ihr .sinipli' slali'iiii'iit, 
 
 iIh'Ii 111' i- lialilt' as \v«'il us till' parciils. I may saylliul i prnviTiiird Iwu pairnlsfiii' 
 alliiwiiu rliildicii III >^i> to work wlm \mii' iiiidrr a^i' after pii'\ ioii,s|y waiiiiiii,' I lii'iii. 
 I'liil ilic trmilili' is, nf I'liiiiso, tliul llii' pan 111 is liulili' as well as tlii' riiiploycr and 
 
 if von lakr I ill' I '111' ynll lia\i' in I.lki' Iml ll, 
 
 Tlir ( 'iiMMI.SsinM.K. - Is it llir I'.Nprrii'MC' nf inailllfarl Ull'ls n|' W Imlcsali'I'S lliat lliry 
 
 I'an ju'i'l ilii'ir wnrk dniii' as well nr lii'iii'r and iimii' ilii'aply liy i nnlr.artnrs llianlliry 
 could in failiii iis ,,i i lirir n\s n .' 
 
 .Mr, ( ll■l!nl•'sl^^ inslanci'd .i lirm nf iiianufaitwiris in iinclicst.r that had dniiu 
 away willi contraclnrs and wrn' doiin: lln'ir work dirci'l in I'nimwn w ari'lmiisi'. 'i'lu'V 
 ari', lu! ?-aici, wi'll plcasnl witli ihr iirw nnlrr nf tilings. I dn nni ihini; ihrri' is any- 
 tliin;,' nt' this In ic. 
 
 Till' CnMMlSsloNKU. - lla\i' tlli'lr I ii I'll ,lliy a 111 lll'lll ira I ill illslami'S nf cnllla^^'nUH 
 iliMcasDS li.i\ini,' 'n'l'ii spread liy ineaiisiif n;ii iiienls made in enntraelnr>' shops or pri\,it(> 
 llOUHOs ? Mr, tiiirnfsky has spoken nf that, 
 
 Mr. ( !i lioi'skY. — -I woiki'd in a simp in I hi- eily where iv\o ehildieii died nf 
 (liphlheria. 'I'lu'rc werr linlli men and vsnineii in i he esijililisliineni, '{"hd man (father 
 nf children) used tn cnme down stairs and wmk in ihe simp afli r he had lioen with the 
 children, Wedid iiol knnw that it was diplil hei ia- iiniil one child died and the other 
 was |;d<en to the hospital. Then tin authorities notilii'il us and put a placard upon the 
 door. 
 
 The CoMMissioNKi!, I>o you actually know of ;iiiy ease wherein iiifeclinus diseases 
 wi'ic cairicd hy means nf garnionls ,' 
 
 Mr. (UiiOKSKY. — Well, no. 
 
 The I'oMMi.ssioNr.l!. T noticed that in the examination hefore the swoatint; com- 
 mission in the rnited States, tlii- iiuestion wasjisked fniin (lillerent witnesses, hillcrcnt 
 answers were ;j[i\en— whether the spon^^in;; and ])i'i'ssinir of ;faiineiits wmild kill t' 
 i( nns of disease? Soiue thought that it wmild : nthers that it would not. 
 
 Inspector IJ.MiiiKU. — Tlierc could lie no ■Inuhi ihattho heat of the pressing in 
 would kill the niierobcs, 
 
 Mr, ( li'ijoKSKV,- - I know nf giils wnrki.ig in simps who hase cnnsuinption and 
 other diseases of that kind. 
 
 ^.'r. Sri!A('ii,\\, Disease was liable to he con' racted in private houses where jio\-ei'ty, 
 sickness, and often! iincs lilt li reigned. No dwclling-linuse, he tlmughl, slmiild he allowed 
 to hecoine a factory, 
 
 Mr. CaiU'IV. -If that were the case the inspectors would liave a belter oj)|)nrt unity 
 of getting at the trouble. 
 
 Insjiectnr l!Ai!iii",it - The medical health ntlicer deals with that. 
 
 The CoM.Mi.ssio.NKlt, — I came across a case where scarlet fever was in the house 
 
 Mr. Sthaciian. — Work was taken to private houses where mothers employed girls. 
 When there were cases of sickness the clothing was used fnr liedding, etc. Sweating is 
 the great ditliculty. No work should V)e allowed to be done in private houses. I hope 
 thill the report which you will present, Mr. Commissioner, will bring in a new state of 
 things allogether', and a new system of inspection in these private residences. Such a 
 condition of thing.s as would answer to the factory. That tliseut^es are spi'ead by- 
 clothing I think there can be no doubt. It is the sweating system that you want to 
 get at the bottom of. 
 
 le 
 
 ins 
 
as 
 
 uul 
 
 Till* ('"iMMIS-lnM'.l!. I ilnii I Mllilio-c I li.it ll' I Well' liiliiuhl In .i-k tin' ■|lli-.l iull, 
 
 <'\vliiit ciihsiii iilf^ ^\\('iiliii'4 ' ili.it I \Miii|ii ;;i't Iwu aiiswcis nhkc, 
 
 .Ml'. 'I'l'iiip. Ill rctViviMi' III yniir t'liiinci' i|Ui'stiuii, In wliii'li ymi hail a ■^nml iIimI of 
 (lill'u'iilly in u''''liiiK 'H' uiisurr. lM■l•,^ll■^l■ tli^ |i,iilii's ilirccily iiii('ri'st,»'i| uri' imi hcii'. 
 Villi sec |M"'iili' iiM- a ;,'ival ilral nf iMiitinii In |ii.'\.'iit iiit'ipriiiMtinii u'l'lliiiLf uutKiili aliniit 
 
 illt'l'I'tiillH lliscilsi's ill I lli'if l|(l||.l•^. I M^laiiri'^ ;i|i' kliiiW II w ll I (Iit,il,'li.l|s (|iM'a>i'~ all' 
 
 I'liiid'ali'il, W'l' kimw, ImwrMT, tlmt rlutliiiiu^w ill I'any iiilVci ion ami t'lmn t lit- fact tlial 
 iiiuili lit' tills I'lMliiii:; i-. iii.'iiIm ii|i in cli si- anil ill M'lit ilati'(| pLici's « Ikmi' ilisfasf wmilil 
 liavi' ;i rliaiHT 111 -.piviMl I licr,' is nn (|ii">l inn ;ii ,'ill Inii thai it li;t> (ai'iinl c.int auimis 
 (U.-^i'itsi'. .\ jiicii iii.iny rasi's ran In- traci'ij wliii'li s|)iiiiu t'n'in iliat, I think if vmi 
 IniiU (i\iM' till' n'purts fmni ntlii'i' rniniiiis-inns Villi will lin<i that wlicii' thry hasi- had a 
 
 llliiri' I'Xicnilril Jitilil tlli'V ha\r liiTli .'llili' t 1 ailsWrl' til. It i|i|i'.Ht inn. 
 
 .Mr. ( ('I )n\ni;iii i;. ll i^ nut a fail asMiiii|ii inn thai nn r.isis arisr siinnh hi'iaiisi' 
 wi" (Inn't knnw iif I hnii. 
 
 'I'lif CnMMissi ,m;ii, — ( )iily if I hail tlir part iriiljii' in>laiii'i". it, wmilii he iiinn> satis- 
 fartnry. Nnw, in rcfrii'iici' In tliis iii\i'>tii,'.ilinn. I Ilivi- mily nini'ly ilay.s allom'tlu'i' 
 ill which ti) i;cl the infill mat inn, ami ciiiiM'i|iiini ly t'aiiiint iii.iki' sn t liniiMi;,;h an investi- 
 gation as I think nIhuiIiI he niailc with icfi'icm'c In wa^c, I -ihall nnlv he alilc to 
 speak u'l'iieially. 'I'n altempt in a iiiiiety-ilays' iincst.iu.ilinii In ;,'et, al all the fads w- 
 laliiiy; t.ii tliis irai.c. nr any ti.ule. wmilil he ust'k'.s.s. It simply cmilil mil he ilmie. It 
 st'eiiis til Mil! that the luirean nt' lalmiii' statistics, to olahlish which an Act has hern 
 passeil, hut wh:i;h li.is never hceii pni intn npeiji : lun, caiiiniL lie nr;fani/e(l any too snoii. 
 \N'o niii.'ht tn have such infni iiialinn as it wmiM uiw, leiulily tn hand. (Hher cduntrii's 
 liii\(; such hureaus, ami in the I'liiti'd .Stales they mil uidy j,'ivt! statistics nf their own, 
 Imt for olhor countrioM. 
 
 Mr. < )'| toNoniiii;. If yoii could lake a cnnseiisiis nf the npiiiiniis of those who 
 take an aclive pail in inatli'is cniinected w ith lalmur, I think ymi wmild liiid im cue 
 lilies In it. We think the ( niMinniciit wniild he justilied in put t in;,' that hurcau intn 
 nperation. We were cxpeclim,' much fnnn it. and imu'li yood would rise fniin it were it 
 put into ii|ier,itinii. I']\en now it is hdter late than never, and we would lie proud to 
 _,"t it. We are proud of (',iii.iila for iiiany re.isnns, Imt that happens to he one nf the 
 tliiiiijs ill which we think the cniintry is hehiml. If the I inveinmeiit nf thecoiintrv 
 exercises ecnnnmy in ever\' other direction, they can atl'nrd tn u'isc us a hiircau of that 
 character. Itwniild he a lc real advantaL(e to tJie workin:,' peo|ile and the country .is a 
 whole, hecause incidentally and indirectly much of ih.. infoiiiiation in the hands nf the 
 Canadian peojilc would he laid hefnre the world. 
 
 The Commission);!!. -As the hour is hite (it wns now lU.-Mi p.m.) we will adjourn to 
 meet af^ain at this place to-morrow evening, when we will auain ;,'i\e the matter our hest 
 attention. 
 
 Mr. (iiJitoi'SKV. — Can we ask contractors tn come .^ 
 
 Tlie CoMMl.ssioNKH. — We want all to he prcsi^nt who c.in uive any inforin.itioii 
 whatever on the matter. 1 may s,iy that conli.ictors, as well as wholesale manufac- 
 turers, were invited, and I liavc the ])romise of the contractors lh.it they will he repre- 
 .sented hy a committee to-mormw ni'^hl. Ymi will each uiulerstaiid that you have the 
 ri'dit to iiersonallv iiuite anv who can throw anv li'^lit iiiiin the matters under investi- 
 
 rs I fc . • * 
 
 gatioii. 
 
 The im[uiry then adjourned. 
 
 Tlie ini[uiiy resumeil on Thursday, the Otli .l.inuaiy, IS't^, at 8. 20 jliii. 
 
 A nunilier of contractors \vcr(3 present in addition to reju'esentjitives of tli- lahour 
 inizaiions. 
 
 The Co^jMissioNKU. — (Jentlemen, in iuiswering ijuestions, you will plea.se as nearly 
 as possible confine vourself to tlie question. La.st night we got into a discus.sion on the 
 61 —3* 
 
pp 
 
 ;U) 
 
 Factnrv Ai't. funl jiltlioiiL'li nii Ui(^ wliulc |ii()lilalil(', it. t<i(ik up time wliidi -Imiild have 
 b<'< II 'J'wi'U t.tt iillii'f iiiMttris, find we ImVf ri'j liiiif to ^o <i\('i- all tlic jiliMscs i>( the (|iies- 
 
 tiuii. 
 
 ill lii'sl f('|i(';it Ik' l;i->i iiui"~tini; put liisi ('\ciiinL;', ii-< |)i)ssil)ly llii'fc uiay 
 ircsi'iil In iiiulil sduif «liuc;m tiiniw t'uit licr 1 i,i;lit upmi it. 
 
 I) 
 
 1 l,l\C their 1 
 
 ii'i'ii iiiiv au 
 
 t.liiMil icati'd iiistaiic('-i lit' (■i)Ut!i''ious diseases i 
 
 lasiu;.: Iiccu 
 
 iiri'.id li\ niiMii- Ml' L:ainiciils iiiailc in col.l IMcli>r> slio](S < i pi'i\at(> lluusO' 
 
 \l 
 
 r. I,i>\ I 
 
 I k 
 
 llciW () 
 
 t' 111! cases in 'ri'i'diitn at an\' rate 
 
 '1 he ( '(iMMissi(iM:ii. I was tnid nl' two cas s nt' scailct fcsiu' in a, hotiso whcro 
 f, hut: do not knou that any had results (.'aim' tVoni it. although that 
 
 clollniiL' was mad 
 
 UUL;llt e.lMi\ 
 
 Iv h 
 
 Mr. W . M MKKv. 
 
 don't (lUite III 
 
 iderstand what- \(iu re drixiiiL;' at. 
 
 tlionu'lit 
 
 that It. \\as t he lio 
 
 hd not r>>nii 
 
 ur-- ol' wcrk and t In 
 
 that w( 
 
 aid that N'dU w anted to kin 
 
 i 
 
 here to learn ansthini: aiioiil disejises. I am !.,'"i"-4' I" tell you the hours 
 
 r '_;entli'iiien ean do the same and who we employ, how I 
 
 tli:ll I NN ol k and t lie^e ot hi 
 
 wn\e lieen in the trade, and ho ,\ loim hands work for u- 
 
 Oll 
 
 Tin; CoMMIsSjONhli 
 
 lal is ,dl \'ei \- we 
 
 uiiilerstand th.il we w.anl to L;et at the taets m 
 
 then, we will he j;lad to ha\f" it. You 
 the trade as tar as | ossihh . If there i.s 
 
 aii\ ijii' 
 ■(\'hat r\i 
 
 siion lett llna■^ked that \ou want to ha\e .asked, or it' yon ha\e ans' int'orinat i<ui 
 r that voii want to i;i\t' us, we will he only loo i;lad to ha\e you do so. 
 
 .Mr. .M\eKi;\. 
 
 W 
 
 ell. we Ileum 
 
 at half 
 
 >ast 
 
 ill the mnniinu', iift an hour t'oi 
 
 (linnei' anil i 
 
 luil at six as t he 
 
 1 inus. 
 
 W 
 
 e iilll 
 
 t at twehe o'eloek Saturd; 
 
 IV 
 
 M) 
 
 hands eo'ii troiii one dollai' per week that i-. tor li 
 
 liars per week, I h 
 
 Ith 
 
 ajipreniiees o\er foui'teen years 
 
 ot aue ol eoui'se -to seven ilollars per weeK, 1 lia\e liai 
 einploynieiit. 'The men I have t^'et from live to twelvi 
 
 d 1 
 doll 
 
 lem tor o\er ten years ui inv 
 
 us per w (M 
 
 rhe ("oMMissioM'.i;. Then the tirsi tiuuri'^^ vou j,'a\(> were in refrrcnce to ^irl- 
 
 Mi. M ^l^K 
 
 ^'es ; a little i;'ili apprentiee wiiiildi;el oni' dollar a week to he^iii 
 
 ,ilh. I iief\- .in\ man to eont i adiet that, and the w ayes run up to sex'en ilollais p 
 
 The ( oMMi-sioNi.:i;. .\iiont tiie men. please Lrive the figure; 
 
 Ml'. M \i m;v. 
 hat I I 
 
 T 
 
 lev will i:i 
 
 1 from live to iMLiht, and from eiidit to twehe dollai 
 
 hat IS w 
 Mr. (i 
 
 ia\ anil t hat is a! 
 
 I h 
 
 i\ e to sas". 
 
 1 i;ol'sl\\ . 
 ill 
 
 W 
 
 oiilil It he tair to ast 
 
 the last witness a (piestion .' lie said he 
 
 lowest man live dollars and his highest twelve. 
 
 anv men has heat twehe dolkars and how manv uiil--^ at se\en and how inanv 
 
 i\ iloikiis, lull now pa\s hi 
 
 llo 
 
 at from two to four dolkar- 
 
 Mr. .M ACKi'.v. 
 
 uld not jiist exaetly ui\e an otl-l:ainl answer to thai i|iiestion. 
 
 ( 'oMMi-sioM.i;. - ('I'll Mr. Maekey) \<n\ -tated thai vou eould not yi\ e tin 
 
 iiiswei lo ihil ijuesdoii oil' ham 
 
 W 
 
 ill vou une It to me it 
 
 It yoiir pku 
 
 Mr. M \(Ki;\. With pleasure. 
 
 The t 'oMMissioNi'.i;. What kind of uaiment-- are ni st ly made up under the 
 
 out raet --\ s'ein ; 
 
 Mr, .MArM.;>. .\11 
 
 make IS eoai ^ 
 
 The t'oMMlssioNf.i;. Ihit I suppose pants and i 
 ^!l•, .M MKi'.v. t Ml, eertainlv. 
 
 iii'kers also. 
 
 he t oMMissio 
 
 mi;. Mr, i,ii\e, 1 think \ou work on o\ ereiaa 
 
 ts lar-el 
 
 v do V'lU not 
 
 .Mr. l.o\ i;. .Ml kinds of eoals aeeoriliii;:' to s 'aMin 
 
 >h-, Smpi:i;m AN. 
 iw 11 henelit. 
 
 lie I losses 
 
 need not he afraid to tell all thev k 
 
 now. tis tor their 
 
 .Mr. I.ovi;, 1 am ^ladof that and thank this yent leiuaii for his kindiie; 
 
 not think from the look of the man tnat 
 
 lid 
 
 le \erv iiuieh atraiil ol Iniii. 
 
 Ihil 
 
 we 
 
 are here to gi\e all the inl'oiiiiation reijiiisiie as far as weeaii, if it is ;L;oinj.' to hi^ of any 
 henelit to the traih" and to •,M\-e it intell;i,'ently. I hope there will lie no falling out 
 ahout \\hat has heeii. 1" i^ a mistake for the speakers to attaek e.ieli i ther personally. 
 
 he ( oMMlssio 
 
 M;ii. We need not veuiiiate aiivthinu of that ki 
 
 lul ; we are liere to 
 
 't lu'oriiialion for the good r,f the traile. I Inive only got the answer for coats hut 1 
 ivsume that it applies to pints and niekers. 
 
37 
 
 iiiiulc m 
 
 )l!,-ns. 
 
 •r rlie 
 
 Mr. I,n\ K.-~-l eiui Irll vdii t\>r ;i piz-iiivc t'iicL tliul lliciv ui-R iiuiits In'iiig 
 the city i>f Tdi'ontd at ten ccnis per ]iair. 
 
 'J'lif ('(iMMi^sioxKii, -111 tlu' contra. 1 sliuj.s ? 
 
 Mr. Lovi;.- - \\ ell, tlic wliolcsalc men ;;ivc tliciii nut ami -vi lli(;in hack liiiishcd for 
 tiial nrmcy. 
 
 Tin.' CoMMi.s.sioM'.K. Tlie i|Ucsiioii wis .-iskcil last iii^lil as u< the iiractice iit' whole- 
 smIc Mien giving out yonds dirt'ctiy to the people. 
 
 Mr. LovK. -The wholesale nianut'act urei' L;ots pants inaije in Toronto for ten cents 
 a ]iair that I kiiosv of. Twelve cents per jiair was sonic time a^o the cheapest thnt f 
 had ever known, hut now lliey are down to ten cents. I saw no later th.aii tlii. week 
 two or three do/.(>n pair of pants that were made at ten cents, and 1 was told that oven 
 at tlial ]irice that they were ruiinin-- -hreakiim their neck.s you miiiht say — to got th« 
 woi'k. I']ven ar that, price the men could not suppiv (hem fist miiiULth. 
 
 'I he Cummissiom;!!. — I would like if y<>ii would give me the name not for jHihlication 
 of Course. 
 
 Mr. Lovi:. I will give it to you. This man told m(> that he had to oouipett with 
 <uhei' p 'ople. lie said that oIIum's were cut ting hiin down cheajier than thai. ,\s to 
 that, howevci', I cannot sav. 
 
 The CoMMissiONKi!. — Can any one tell me auydiing al):iut. the contract system out- 
 side of the clothing trade .' 
 
 .^^r. LoVK.- I don't know outside of my own. I supp ise ! here .■ir(> o| her t i;id(>s 
 riinring the same way. 
 
 .Mr. Srn.\cii w. --When 1 understaMd you to say thU' iher.-are pants m ide for ten 
 cents a piir, docs that mean that they are issued from the warehouses to employers.' 
 
 .Mr. Lo\i;. \o, they are issueil by the wliolesde men to the cont ractors — the 
 makers as you term theui -I don't know whether the conti'actors make ; . eco;id contract 
 or not, hut 1 know iha* the jiants are tinished and delivt>red for ten cents .: pair. 
 
 .Mr. SriiAi II AN. .\re you aware of any individual gi\ing a contract that goes to a 
 sectMid or sub-cont r.ictoi ' 
 
 •Mr. Lovi:. -f am not aware of any of that tiade being done in Toronto. 
 
 .Mr. < ) |).iNo.,iiri-., I loi\s the ten c 'iits incluil ■ any of the iiiatetial, thread, 
 buttons, etc. .' 
 
 .Mr. Lo\i;. -No. sir, cxerylldng is supjilied. 
 
 The l'o\iMissio\i;i;. — In the ,'a^e you refi'r to, what does the work amount to ! 
 
 Mr. li ivK. In coats they are tii's! cut after the pattern, then iImm' wlio take thein 
 out |)ay the cMrria.;e and briiiu' them hack made. 
 
 Tile t'oMMissioM'.K..- -'Jdie <piestion was asked last !ii:;hi a> to whether tlie lining 
 .system obtained in wholesale houses to any extent. 
 
 .Ml'. Lo\ K. -J ne\('r knew it to be done. 
 
 The ( 'oMMissioNf,!!. Vou did Hot spoil any cloth .' 
 
 .Mr. L(>\ i;. — 1 will not say that. I must say tliat I think it right that if clothiii': 
 is spoilt to any e.xtent by burning it should b.> jiaid tor. 
 
 The CVi\i\iissio\i;ii. What I mean by the lining system is this: It has been fre- 
 (juenlly complained of that employers make a praci ice of Hrl)itrarily lining beyond the 
 lamage done. 
 
 -Mr. Lovi;. -I'm not aware of it. T don t know that I'm- heard of it .is f.ir a> the 
 contractors are concerned. 1 ne\erdid it, and none of thi' men here e\er did it. 
 
 y\v. |).\y|s. -As far ,is these ipiestions are coacerned 1 can gi\e a little information 
 about them myself. Mr. i.owc has told you ab ml pints being inideat tcM cents a pair. 
 I may tell you that there are coats being made for twiuity <'ents and there ,are jiaiits 
 made in the city of Toronto at si.xly cents |ier dozen m coarse lines. It would be hard 
 to explain to you who are not in the trade about the dill'erent lines. 'I'hese jiaiits ;irt! 
 lined right through, li.a.e two pockets .and women aie taking t hem out and makiii',' them 
 at sixty cents piu' dozen pairs. 
 
 The CoMMlssioxt;i{, — Does that iiudui'e anything beyond the making, thrc.ul or 
 ai ytliing? 
 
38 
 
 Mr. I>\\is.- — I kiLiiw of uiic )il 11 T wlu'if llii'V li;i\c to liiid ihcir own tliri'.ul. At 
 tliiit same iilac!' I lia\ c scni tlicm waitiiii; ]iiol)ai)ly I uo hoiiis to ucl a halt do/i't) [);iiis at id 
 tlii'V liiiiii,' tliciii liack the next day in luil)y laiu^ics and iii;)lidily hii\i' smcral cliildicn 
 to look at'l'T as well, 'riicii the t'oicinaii will pick out foiif ]iair an I coniiilain tliat tlicy 
 ail' not f'noutrh finished, and the woman liascilhci todo liic \voil\ omm' ai,fain of \>t', lined. 
 \\'iiat I sav alioiit the swcit iny sy^icin i-- that, the hands woi'kmg in our .-.hops are far 
 lictler olYt'ian tliosi' yDin;,' diicet to the nianufaet iii'er. NN'hen a, yiri einiej, to my shti|> 
 wiialeNcr siic uels I see tliat, slie yets il, altli n.Lih I eannoi atlord to jiay mui-h. I have 
 lieen in the liU'-iiic'-s in thi-^ I'ilv twelve years. I have ji.iid as high as sixteen dollars 
 iiiT week'. Now. if I hail to pay nine dollars jier week I could not all'ord it. When I 
 jKiid hiuiier I was makin;^ more. Xow. some of the weeks I am nmnini,' heiiind. T 
 cannot always pay Just when the wa.Lics are due. They lia\e to wait a (tayor two some- 
 times, liut they always get paid up. 
 
 Mr. < )'|)0N()(;ill'K. — What is ihe cause of that from your st:uidiioinl .' 
 
 Mr. IVwis. — The I'ause — too many in the trade. 
 
 The t'uMMissinM:n. — I think I si'e theilrift of Mr. ( ) i )oiioL;lnie's (|iiestion. Ilowdu 
 the pi'ic'os at which the g-^ods ate ultimately .s(]ld comp;ire now with wlia' llu y were '. 
 
 Mr. I Vwis.— -Tii(>y don t get half as much for the goods now as tiiey did si.\ years 
 aL;o. t.'ompetition in the trade and too much lalioiir does i.t. I ha\e refused coats at 
 37.', cents, because T told them it was iinpossihle to take them out and get them done at 
 that jiricc. 1 then found myself wirhout any work in, and I made up my mind that I 
 would try them, --o I went link to tlie manufacturers, but was told tliat they «■ i-c 
 gone, 'i'hat shows that it is not the manufacturers or middlemen who aretohhime, but 
 it is the fault of the hard time-. P"ople are anxious to get .inything at all to do. 
 
 ]\lr. O'DoNooiui;. — You maile the remark ili.it peojile employed by the contractors 
 were lieiter oil' than tlios(> dealing direct with the wholesalers. 
 
 Mr. D.wis. -They don't run any chances, if they do the work all right. If it is 
 not done right they alter it in the slioji, and there is \ery little Maine from it. There 
 is a chance for me getting a hundred of goods back, because they are not done just the 
 way they should be. 1 l)ear the cost. The man or gii'! in my place does not lun any 
 responsibility. liiesides that thej' don't have to take bundles through the streets and 
 wajt at the wholesalers for iiours to be attended to. There is (lie place I Kjiowof where 
 they pay the people on a little bit of a staircase. The pay clay is on F"riday. and you 
 can number a hundred or more gathered thereto get jiaid. I''\eii in the coldest weather 
 many of them have to wait two hours for their turn. 
 
 .Mr. n'J )o\o(;in i;. \'ou say that they are more liable when di'.ding with the 
 manufacturer direct to lose for tin- reason that if a large number of goods from your 
 est.dilishineiit do not suit you have to put them right. 
 
 Mr. l>.\\is. Yes. .My hands ai'e getting jiaid e\en for oMMtime. The men start 
 in at 7 o'clock in the mor'iing, and the gii'ls at 7..'?0. They (piit at 1 1' for an hour, then 
 work to six. They stop at I J on Saurdnys. Tlie\ get their week's pav no matter 
 what h;ip|iens. 
 
 .Mr. < ' I )o\o',iii i:. - Thev are working 1)\ the week. 
 
 Mr, l)\\is. -Yes. The only sweat ing s\steiii is where the women are t aking out 
 direct t'-oui the maiiufactuieis. 
 
 The CoMMissioMci;. 1 might sjiy that I had a letter from one w lio paid great 
 attention to the sweating syst-'in in the .s^t.iti -. It stated that t he t roubli' was tlu^ 
 jieople try to throw the bl.anie on the c-ontractor ,i< well as the wholesale men. while \\\i' 
 writer considered the wholesaler the greatest sweiterof the two. 
 
 Mr. (iiuoKSKV. —You miudit infer troiii what lia> be(>n said that hands are better 
 olV Working for contractors than for warehousemen. 'I'hey might be better otV than if 
 t.akin^' the woi'k to their homes, but the\- an' not belter oil than if winking;- for the 
 warehou'cmen. 
 
 The t'oMMissioNKi;. —That is workinu' in the wari'houseman s own fai'torv? 
 
 .Mr ^!rl:o|■sK^•. — Y'^es. I )on t dr.iw the infi'ience th.it we are bet ter off working 
 for a eontrae-.or than we would be working for the warehousemen. 
 
39 
 
 At 
 
 Mr. (»'!)(, \()(,inK. — (To (lui'otsky) Would you !j;et more withes diccot from tlio 
 \s aroliousciiuMi tliitii at tlio pliicc v. here you arc now woikinu • 
 
 Mr. (Il'KOi'sKV. I fiin satislicd that i would. I had the I'Xjicriciicc iiol loni.; ago. 
 T was woikint;- for tlic 'V. l/ilon Co., and niach' eigliLccu and t wtMily dollars a wook. 
 'I'hat <<aiiiiajiy leariiiMJ a little sonicl liini;. 'I'liey took a contractor in and ,i,'a\c iiini the 
 work. The result was that lu; ijot a liii,' rake oil'. The most a mm can earn tliere now 
 is twelve to thirteen dollars a week. {''or that reaMui I lielievi* tl^at we would lie better 
 oil' working for the m.anufaeturer direct, '{'here wijuld he no iniddli'iiien taking any- 
 thing oH". Take the llrni of W. I!. .loiiM^toiii' foi' ii\stance. They ciniiloy ten or eleven 
 contractors, ivich hosshasa numher of hands that might i)ossil>lv lie done awav with if 
 they were all in one estal)lishmeiit. Tt would he his.s o.vpense with rcLtard ici heatitig, 
 lighting, power, etc., and insteatl of ten or ele\-en men su])ervising as many estahlishments, 
 three (U- four imii as foreiiu'ii would do the work, aiul save the price of eiglit men, and 
 the rake oil' would go to the jjeople employeii and it \»(iuld not cost the warehouscnian 
 one cent more to manufacture his stidl'. 
 
 The C,'oMMissioNi:ii. -What object then liavc! the wholesale uicn in giving their 
 good.s out to contractors .' 
 
 .Mr. (iLM!Oi'sK\'. — Tliey rid 1hems(d\e.s of the r(>sponsibility. They used to work 
 inside. A large tirm in Rochester recently had diiliculty with their contr.utors. They 
 went to work and started to nuinufacture on the f own pre; uses and they lind it to work 
 splendi<lly. Another tirm iu New York aiul one in Chicago have adopted the same 
 plan with gre;it succes.s. 
 
 The Co.MMl.ssioNi;!!. — The point 1 want to get at is this; If you are correct in 
 what vou say, it seems to me that it would b(> easy foi' the men to persuade the wholesa- 
 lers that it would be in tiu'ir interests to run their own shops instead of cm|iIoyiug con- 
 tractors. Ijast night I aske I tlu; ([uestion whether it [lays best to have work done by 
 contractors or in their own shops. 
 
 Mr. ( lUmusivY. — Hut these men have no exjierien.ce. Mr. Li)\e know.s nothing 
 al)out that. The only way to get an answer would be to go tr) that tirm in Hochester 
 and get their experience and also tf) Ale.xander .t Anderson and the T. Eaton Co. 
 
 The CoMMissiONKi!. - The hardest thing to get in Rochester is the truth. I could 
 not get it. 
 
 .Mr. r.ovi;. His own woids (indicatiiiu' ('Urofsky) condemn thems(dves. lie says 
 tha.t in the T. Iviton Co., he could mak(> .-^b"^ per week. The eompany either ]>aid him 
 more than he was woiah or I'.Mind '•onti'act laliour the best. lam in f ■ \oiu' of day's 
 wages. ( >nce when thev coidd not get work, .Mr. (Jurofsky got some of his fiiends \\\\i\ 
 had a little money and started a shop of their own which was not a success. If they re 
 working inside they would just do as <ither piece workers have done who worked night 
 and day until the bosses would say that they were making t-o much money and cut 
 them dosvn. My experience both 'n the old country and in this count i> is that, if piece 
 hand- would do just an ordinary day's work theie would not be sueh low wages. T was 
 one to inform the jiolice th.it he (.Mr. (iurofsky) worked on Sundays even, lie was 
 not satisfied with doing six ilays' work but did ii ou the seventh. 
 
 y\v. (!; Uoi'SKV. I don't ask the man who has the Coniideiice of the bosses to judge 
 ine. T am content to have the contidence of my co-workers. If they want my defence 
 thev can have it. Mr. Love ha'- not draw n a fair inference. The cause of the con- 
 tractor beinii' called in at Maion's was t he unfortunate si|uabble amongst the hands. 
 There ^\ as too much favouritism. They ((uarreded among themselves and the lirin 
 getting tinwl of that called in a middleman who gets a laige rake otV and rids them of 
 res)ionsiliility. The reason I could not make the shop ref.'rre'l to l;o was brM'ause I 
 coiilil not grind the men down like the eont lactors. We did start a co-operative 
 establishment., but as I ha\ e said we could not u'rind ejieh othei' down as the bosses 
 grind us down and we had to gi\e it u)i. 
 
 The CoMMi.ssioNKi!. When you had tl i operative establishment there was lu) 
 
 <]Uestion of wag s involved of course. 
 
 Mr. (iriioi'NKv" — N"o ; but when the week's end eame there was no money left. 
 We could have succeeded iis well as any in the busiiu'ss by grinding the faces of tlie 
 [leople as thev do now. 
 
BIMI 
 
 40 
 
 ''m 
 
 'r\\<' ('(»mmissi(>m;I!. — In the I'o-opcralisc fstaMislniiciit T |)ifsiiin<' all lie mi';; wlin 
 wiiikcil ill till' slii)|) sliarcil 'he jirolit. 
 
 .Mr. ( !l;l;lll■'^K^ . Yi's ; anil wr ]y,\\i\ tlif L;irN. Tlirrt! was nnlliini;' in it Ix'cau.se 
 tlic u.'in'liipiiscnic'n would not. pay taiouuli. 
 
 .\||-. hwis. |)i(l yon j^ct k'ss than now .' 
 
 Mr. ( li l,•ol•sK^ . .\o ; wr yot all then! was in it, hut wi' had to pay haiiils. 
 
 The ( 'o>iMi>sioNi;n. 'I'hrn these i^cnllcnuMi Ljct only what yon ^^ot. You then hail 
 !io " rake oil"' to pay to niiddlciiicn. yt't, you could not inakr wa^rs. 
 
 .Mr. ( 1( itoi'si\> . — \\'(i had no ^'iils at less than tour dollars piT wcrk. We cm- 
 |i1o\im| no a|ipri'nti('('s, and tlic least we jiaid was four <lullars. 
 
 Mr. I ) \\ Is. i low many Ljirls .' 
 
 .Mr. (.; r i;n|-.-;i\^ . -! cannot reeollert, lint they all t;ot pay, and you 'Mn see tiii! hooks 
 if \iiu want to. 
 
 i\Ir. S\iih:I!M\\ said tli.it they did not pay liiu^er prices in the wholesales l)ecause 
 oi' the competition lietween the cmil ractor--. 
 
 'I'lie (IoMM:ssioNI;I!. 'I'hey try to lieal each other. 
 
 Mr. Sniukum \n. ^'cv. 
 
 Mr. ( J rijoisiv V. 'i'he man we are workini,' for ^ot some coals to do at a dollar and 
 a i[ii,siter. and .Mr. Lose c.ime and took iheiii for a dollai'. 
 
 .Mr. Lo\e denied that this \v s the case. 
 
 Mr. < ''l>oNOi:ll'.'l'; If vou re iroiiii;- to t;et to s(|iialil)lin:,' \iiu will waste t he t'oni- 
 mis-^ioner's linii. I woiilil lii<e lo see pi>rs,inalities left out of the matter. 
 
 Mr. i.iiNi:. I must contradict thiit misstatement. .Mr. (.iurofsky tells what is iirit 
 true. Let .Mr. ( iurofsky state what p ly he i^tis hoa. lie and another machine are 
 doinu' tiiirt k coats a day. 
 
 Sexer.d of those present started to talk a1 one time. 
 
 Tile ( 'oM.MissioNi'.i;. (lentlemen, 1 must insist upon having order. Try and ^ivi' 
 a vtr.'iiulii answer to the i|iiestion or we will never i,'et throimh. 
 
 .Mr. Srit.vni.w. This gentleman has come h ri^ for the purpo-e of an impiir) into 
 tlie swt>at iiiii' sx'stem. 1 think that any man who takes- out work from the wholi'sale 
 aiul :;i'ts it '.'one t liroiiuh uuddlemen is a sweater. 
 
 'i'he l'oM\!issioNi:i!. You must understand what tlu' < !o\ ernment wants is to yet 
 information as to ijie >weat ini; system itself aiul to see what can lie done to check it, 
 if aiiythini;' can lie ilone. 
 
 .Mr. l.o\ i:. — 'rhere is one su:.;:,'esi ion I woidd like to make. There are a lot of 
 iiTcsjionsilile men l,'o into the middlemen's place. 'I'hey take out work at any tliture 
 the \\hole<aler likes to ^ive. Thev do not p,iv tluir hands for a week or two and at the 
 end of that time iliey skip out lca\iiiu the jiooi- work^'i's in the lurch. i have sulf'ered 
 through that kind of tninu myself. Somethin',' should lie done to chet'k this. As far 
 .as sweat iiii;' goes, my idea is that there's not a tailoi'in the city, custom or wholesale, who 
 is a swe.Uer. 
 
 Mr. SiKArn AN. 'I'lie man you I'eprescnl is simply a fraud if he skips away leavini; 
 his em)iloyees in the lurch. jiut what is a sweater liut a man n ho employs laliour and 
 tai<es that lahour fi-om aiuither.' 1 c.iU those clothinu nianufacturers sweaters. 
 
 The (N'MMissioNKi:. -Similar investigations have been held in various .-countries and 
 in lookin!4 o\er the re|ioi'is for the drtiniiion of a sweater, 1 don't liiid that the evidence 
 of any two witiu'sses agree on that point. 
 
 Mr. Lo\i:. -.\ll contractors are sweateis in that sense and it ks the only one that 
 you can see it in. 
 
 .Mr. .SfKAcil AN'. -The man stamliiii: lietween the middleman and the sweating 
 system i-- the curse of Toronto. 
 
 The t"o\iNtissioNi:u. — Mr. Straehan, aooording to your view, the contractor is a 
 sweatei'. is lie the only one .' Is the wholesale man a sweater or not .' 
 
 Mr. SniAi'MAN. " -Tlie warehou-einan ^oes to l'Airo]ie and purchases goo.ls there. He 
 takes a weh of cloth and says I want twenty coats made out of that, and to the con- 
 tnictor he says I will give you so much to make them. The contrajtor sa^^b it is too 
 
'% 
 
 41 
 
 who 
 
 httl.'. lli.'ii tho Nviu-ehoiisciiiiin thiojiU^ns to ,-ive tlu' work to unotlicr. Tlir .'otui actor 
 immcdiiUely gives in and lie will ^r.H tlic, nik.- oinH'twccn himself mi-l tli.. workshop 
 
 Tlie CoMMlssioxKU.- How much is tlie r.-ikf-oir for tlic warclioiisciiian .' 
 
 Ml'. Stkac'ian— Nothing, it lias gone tu the eontraetoi-. 
 
 Tiw ('ommis.;,om;|(.- Yet you say he would liave paid a dollar' and a half fn, a .'oat 
 but for the compel itinn among lln' sweaters. 
 
 Mr. Lo\];. ^J would like l.i say that J don't know (,f a firm or sweater in Toronto 
 paying hands l)y pi.ve-work. They are all on day's wages. Theiv are no contractors 
 m the secmid ei'm amongst what you call the sweater.s who have 1, ,.n in 'I'on.nto for a 
 numljer <pf years. Small or large all pay dayV wages. 
 
 The C'oMMissioNi:i!.--.I have run across some who ha\e^ changed from iiicce to day 
 work. ■' 
 
 -Mr. Sti.'aciian-.^- ji does n<.t cc.im' to he piece work simjily hecau.se thev payday's 
 wages, fur whe : a man gets a certain nuinhci- of coats todohejiasto linidi them witliin 
 a stated lime or go. 'i'he bosses know t he value oi a man yet cut the wages down. (To 
 .Mr. Love.) You say that at one time you paid as high as'fourteen dollars. 
 
 .Mr. Lo\ K. I never stated that. I nev. r paid more than eleven. 
 
 .Mr. Si i!A( MAN. lie did. 
 
 -Mr. (JinoisKV, .Mr. 8ti!o\(. and .Mr. i^ovi: all began a heated ar-ument which was 
 promptly suppressed by the Commissioner. 
 
 -Ml-. Lovi:.— I perfectly agive with the sialements made that wages are liein-' 
 broken ilown but that arise, from enm|,etitic,ii. Would -Mr. Stradian be fool enough to 
 kee|i a girl working for six d>. liars when he c.iuld get a better one for four .' I dcMi't 
 think he would be fool enough to gi\e any girl a present of two dollars per week. I 
 may say that 1 have paid as low as one dollar. I generally give that to a little -ill ap- 
 prentice. She must be of the factory age. I lake her in tor the lirst three montlis and 
 pay one dollar per week. She helps to keep the place clean and alsn le.arns to .sew. 
 because the majority of girls in this country at that age don't even know how to \\,M a 
 needle. Seven dollars per week is the highest 1 ever paid to a girl and the highe>i that 
 any man taking out work can afl'ord to pay, and dii^ must be an extra good girl at that. 
 My e.xpi'rience is that from three and a half to four dollars is a good average. 1 had a 
 grocery store in tlii.s city not long ago and a girl came to me ■■uid oll'ered her services 
 for two and .i half dollars per week, altli lugh her hours were longer in t' at store than 
 tho.se of any girl tailoring foi' mc Thev .|uit I'i'.ddly on time and a little before if they 
 can and you cm say the s line of the men. I consider on the whole that the uir|s in 
 Toronto who work for respectable sweaters are better paid and have a better time than 
 the general run of girls. 
 
 The CoMMl.ssio\Ki{.— I asked this (|ue";ti(]ii juvi nio'lit which you now .'an jirobably 
 answer. Are the large shops such as yours which come undei'tluM-egulat ions of the 
 i'^ictory Act placed at a disadvantage — by rea.son of complying with these provisions--as 
 compared with smaller shops? 
 
 -Mr. l.o\ K. — 1 am not aware that they are. Mxcry shop of course comes undei- the 
 Factory -\ct if <Mie 'Utside hel]) is emplovi'd. 
 
 Tlie Com MISSION' HI!. -No. a shop does not come under the Factory Ad unless there 
 ai'e six employees, ruder that Act the regulations are more stringent than in ]ilaces 
 whi.-h don't come under it. I wanted to know if the competition of these shops injured 
 the larger shops. 
 
 Mr. L(n i:. -i ;im not aware of it. 
 
 -Mr. Sa\(.sii;i! — Tiiere's one little |ioini to which I want to dr.iw your atter.tion. 
 -Mr. |)avis maintainei! that the employees workhig for the contractor have not the res- 
 ponsibility aUaching to them that they would have if dealing directly with the manu- 
 tactup-r. Now. I. contend that the responsiijility attaching to the employe(>> is jusl as 
 great if not more so, because the contractor must see that the work is projierly done 
 before he accepts it, and 1 don't see where the point of resjionsibiiity comes in at all. 
 
 The CoMMissiOMCu. — You remeinber last ni-ht that the I'emark was made where a 
 woman would take in a bundle of ci')thinif the foreman would say it is not up to the 
 mark and lind this or that fault with it. When she w(.u]d otFer to take it back she 
 
mr 
 
 42 
 
 wuuld lit' lold lliat, it \v;is wiiiited ;it iinrc and wmild ho fined nf die. 'kcd for wlmtovcr 
 jiinduiil. the t'oreniaii saw til to iui|iuM' ii|inn liei'. Mr, l)a\i- hiuiniaiiied i hat tliat would 
 Hill t'dlliiw well' the woman woikinu tor a contraetoi. 
 
 Mr. SA\i.sri;i:.-- No, hecause the eontractor would see that it was liyht het'oi'e it 
 h.'t't his slio|i. 
 
 'I'lie ("oM\||ss|(iNKi;.- - M r. I );u is niaintains i hal it' he takes a huiidfi'd eo i is tVoin a 
 warehniiseniaii, he will have his own idea as to how lliey arc to he. made u|>, If, when 
 he takes them l)aek to the warehouse, fault is found with them, and he has to make 
 aUerations, it is he who has to hear I he expen-e. Iml if tiie employees take lh(-m o.iek, 
 they would ha\e t i iK'ar tliti,ex|i('nse. 
 
 Ml'. Sa\(;sii;|(. — If a woman can wdrk for a eontiaetor satisfacttu'ily, she can do 
 the same for a warehouseman. 
 
 Ml'. (It liorsKV. — If the h.iiids were working ja'eco work for Mr. |)a\is, lie would 
 say that they were just a-- respousiiije tti liim as tho contrautor.s are to the warchonsn- 
 men. There is one man in this city ,i,M\es all his hands pieee work, the man l^'ine T lold 
 you of. Me makes knickers, coat.s, ladie?.' hlonses, jackets and all kinds of work. \\'(! 
 ha\e to pay, if wt; spoil anything. I ha ic had to jiay, and I know olh.ers who have. I 
 have had to ]iay Mr. l)avies once or twice, I heliexi^ 
 
 The Commission]:!!.- -fiet's i.'et down to the point. Sujipose that you took work 
 from l!ie wareliouse and took it hack from your shop finished according to their instruc- 
 tions. Supposing thtMi that the warehouseman found fault with it, saying he wanted it 
 made so and so. \\'(add the contractor have to hear the e.xrense? 
 
 Mr. ( Jiiioi'sKY.— -No, he would he jiaid for it ; hut if he did not make it according 
 to instructions, he woidd ha\e to pay for it. \\'lien T was working hy tlie piece, 1 
 would have to make it right if I spoilt anything. 
 
 The C'oMMissioNi;u. — These geiillemen say their work' is day work. 
 
 •Mr. Simons. -.Mr. (iiirofsky said that if a workingman spoilt an\thing, he \\ould 
 have to ]),'iy for it. I ha \e worked for -Mr. I >a\ is for some time, and I ha\e oceasiou- 
 allv spoilt goods, hut lia\e never had to pay for them. 
 
 .Mr. I>.\\is. — I would not say that if a man goes and deliheraiely destroys a gar- 
 ment, or if two men get fighting ami tear a garment, that 1 would staii 1 the ooiise- 
 (juences. J'>ut if I find fault with the way a sleeve hangs, for instance, and mak(! my 
 man take it out and lix it properly, loat is done at my expense. 
 
 Mr. < )'I)oNdoi(ri:. — In eontioction with the disciissi.ui on this matter, I would like 
 to say that the llritish (iovernment, as a whole and hy dejiartmeiits, has done away 
 with the suhcoiitract system. l-^Ncry department of the Briti.sh Government now has a 
 specification in its contracts that he who gets the wiu'k must say what wag(NS he is going 
 to pay for every item during the time that he has th<' contract. liecause the exjierience 
 thei.", which was larger than any one of you or all of you jiiit together, was, that the 
 middleman was in every instance an injury to the person who made the garment. 1 am 
 satistied that that is the case. 1 say that what has heen found justiliab!!' hy the Ih'itisli 
 (government in this mattiM- would l)e a gotxl pattern for us in Canada to follow. 
 
 .Mr. (JcuofsKV. — There is one (juestion I would like to ask Mr. Taivc. lie said 
 that the girls in the clothing; trade were hetler oil' on the averag<^ than those out.side. 
 1 wcaild like to ask him if it is as healthy as any other trade. Ts it not detrimental to 
 the health of the -iris .' 
 
 The CoMMlssiONKH. — You'd better leave that ipieslion until we come to it. To 
 wliat extent does th(> contract system prevail in the custom oi' oidered trade. I know 
 that in the case of |)ants niad<! to order tlie work is done largely hy contract. 
 
 Mr. I).\vi- . — l']\eii in coats, too. 
 
 .Mr. STiiAcii.w. You were asking the i|uestioii in regard to the custom trade. 
 The (,'oMMlss!(iXKR. — Yes. i )oes the conti-act system prevail in that trade ? 
 
 -Mr. Sri: ActiAN. There are a hundred and forty men and liftv women out on strike 
 at this moment. Why are they there! IJeciuse t he nineteen employers — good men, too, 
 apparently — told us that they wanted the [lowcr over the paTit an<l vest hands to do as 
 they liki\ Tlun' found it so coP.\.-iiient that instead of paying two dollars for custom 
 made p'lnts they were getting them made; for sixty-eight cents or one dollar, i'iight 
 
w 
 
 43 
 
 ycius iv^o I knew u slio|> whciv tlioy paid tvvo dnlliirs ]«■]■ ]>:\\r t'of |iiiiils. W'c liave 
 .struck to support ilieso |ici>pk' hrcausc tlir coin ractois arc jn^t uriiiilin,i,f tliciii down. 
 We want as a union to control tlii> laljuui' ami to aidilic j^iil^in rlio i>aiit and vest 
 (lc[)artin('nls. Tlio cniployt'rs said we will ]iay •'^l.")0 and ■'<1 .2-"i t'or \csts and V"" not 
 intcrt'eiv, but it' wc did not intcrtcri' tlicsc ;^iiis would somi lie doin;;' the woik t'or lit'tv 
 cents. \N'c will lij^dit this thint;. 'I'hc only way to picvciil it is to make emplnvcis of 
 laljour do away with hack shops and ciiiploy wi'houi contract. This system ot -.prcad- 
 iuii the work all o\-(;i' \.\hi city and pulling; one human heini;- against the other is wron^. 
 Durin,",' the present stiike a tailor wlio wished to i;-et an overcoat completed t'or whicli 
 lie would prohahly get thirty dollers, sent it up to one ot' the e-talilishmcnts to s-c it' 
 tlie men would do it. They (the strikei-s) went aiul got the coat and seni it hack. 
 They are trying to Wreak oin- ]iow(M' t(j earn a livehhood. These men would not care it 
 the women jirosituted tlieir h(jdies at night to make a living wage. You nnist make 
 employers do away with Ijack shops. These contractors are all sweaters. If they would 
 unite artd go to the warehouseman and say we will not work at tin' jirices v(Ui olFcr us ; 
 they are too low ; then tiiey would he ahk'topay girls and men li\ing wages. Instead 
 ot' th t each man tries to cut the price. I liop(> we will light this tiling to the enri, 
 
 Mr. Ijovic. — And I liope tliat the wjiolesale trade will give you all i he assi' ance 
 which they can, hut I know t'or ;i fact tliat these same custom men arc getting their 
 coats made hy wholesale men. This gentleman (referring to Mr. Strachan) says that 
 we have oiu'selves to hlame for making coats so cheaply. That is going a little heyond 
 the truth. We ha\-e ni> more control over that than lie has for the simple reason that 
 when there is a surplus of men there will always lie ctiupet ition. 
 
 .Mr. Stuaciiax. "Is there a surplus of contractors? 
 
 Mr. Ijovi:. -Why, yes. 1 1 retpiires no experience. Anyhody can get into it. 
 
 The Co.MMissioNKi;.-- I think we all agree with .Mr. Strachan that if the men and 
 contractors (.mly united they could settle a great many grievances, hut the great thing 
 is to get them to unite. 
 
 Mr. LovK. — Many men go into the l)usiiiess because there is a living in it, hut 
 knowing nothing about the ic'iuireinents of a trade. 
 
 The ( 'oMMissioNKU. — T would lilce to get an • nswer to this i|uestioii. At what- ago 
 do workers drop out l)y reason of failing health or iiu'liiciency .' 
 
 .Mr. SiH.vcil.W. So far as I am connected with the custom trulc. i do not know 
 of any tailors retiring liefoie seventy. 'I'iiey are compelled to work as lung as they can. 
 That would not he the case if they had shorter hours and better wages. 
 
 The CoMMlssiONKli. — 1 ask that (piestimi because it leads to the next, that is -are 
 there any diseases peculiar to the trade .' 
 
 Mr. D.wis — T can answer that. Now we have the latest iin]irovcments. hut it 
 used to he before we hinl steam or electric power that we workeil the machines v\itli our 
 feet. In those times, a machine t)perator could not exist lonuer ih.in eii;ht or nine years. 
 
 Hinc 
 
 e we hive the improvements, power to run the machines and so on, and liave 
 
 bi'ought the e-tablishmcnts under the Factory .\ct, 1 do not, think that we have any 
 diseas-.'s jieculiar to tim trade. 
 
 Th(^ CoMVtlssioM-;K. What, about handling goods from v\l)ii-h the fumes of t' e dye 
 stuH's arise .' 
 
 Mr. I >.\\ is. -.\s long as the shop- are well ventilated it doe- not do inm-li haiin. 
 
 The CoviMlssniV[':n. — Is your ex]>erience of the shops that they an- well ventilated? 
 
 Mr. D.WIS. AVe are trying our best to keep the r.gulations of the l'"actoiy Act. 
 Those who do not do so are made to ki co the shops in proper shajie and as long iis the 
 place is rixht there is not much dangi>r. 
 
 Ml. S.\ii)i:i!M \\. T am a machine operilor myseh'. I want to say that while the 
 fool power aU'ec-ied the feet and iegs, electric power harms the whole body. 
 
 .Mr. D.w is. How lf)ng flid you 'vork by foot j)ower .' 
 
 ^^r. Snii)I;i!M.\\'. — Until i could work i.o longer. 
 
 Mr. (U'liorsKV. — Only a few establisments in the city have the latest machinery 
 and ev'-ii with improved machines in ten or eleven years, a good able-bodied man will 
 be like a broken down street car hoi-se. It does not take o long \o break the t:iris 
 
 
v^ 
 
 44 
 
 (liiw n. 
 
 Tl; 
 
 iiity nf tlu'sliops ill tlio city liavc im |mi\vci' ni.ic'liincs ,uiil tlicy aif imt 
 
 \ciitil;ili'i 
 Mr. s>:i 
 
 'I'llf ( '(iM\lb 
 
 I. I tliiiiU tlic work (IctriiiK'iital {o tlic hcullli. 
 
 ■:iiM 
 
 AN rt'pi'.itcii liis stati'iiiciit as to elect ric and toot j 
 >|oM;ii. -I sliould surelv tliiiik that 
 
 lower. 
 
 lower 111 aiiv Kiml wmi 
 
 .1 lie ot' 
 
 (Ivaiit 
 
 i''e 
 
 Mr. ( »'l >oN'("!lll'l'.. ('I" Mr. I>a\i>.) 1 wmild lii<e to ask vmi it' \o 
 
 II .iiM* a ]iiai 
 
 tieal 
 
 vdikiiiaii liow i- It that you are in a, luisine.ss of tins kind einployin;^' a lot of others? 
 
 Mr. |)\vis. I'ccaus(> we eoiild not yet a ]ilaee for work. If a man eaine and 
 illei ■ I ine dec( nt Nvaui's j w.uld drop the tailoring tu-day for anytliiii;; else. When I 
 irsi cani(> t i the city i woui<i never ha\e s arted tailorini,' iov myseif if I eouhl have-dt 
 L fair situation. 1 went to a wholesaler I okinu' t"i' \>"oi k and he told ine I hat if I could 
 ;et some inaehinerv and help he would ,i,d\e m • employment. 'J'hat's the way I started. 
 
 Mr. (!; IUH'sKV. I think workin.i; Lias irons detrimental to the health. 
 
 irons 
 
 The CoMMlssio\i;i;.-^llase the hc.illh oflicers niven any statement ahout these i,'as 
 
 , 7 
 
 ,Mr. I>\\is \n\\ li.'vc to \\alcli them ; if they leak they will make you >ii'k. 
 
 The ( 'o\i\i|ssi(i\i'.l(. — Does the piccewoik system <ilitain moie generally anioimmale 
 
 or female employees 
 Mr. Sims. -That 
 
 miudil aiiplv priicMpallv to 1 1 
 
 •iislom tailoriii 
 
 It alililie-. ;dl 
 
 o\'er till' countrN' in our ti.ule. Custom work altogether ihiiie on the pii 
 
 lioth liv men and women. 
 
 plercwoiU .-yslein 
 
 Dot 
 
 Mr. < )"DoN()i:ir!;. You say that in the custom tr.idc it is nearly all hy jiicceworl 
 
 le ini 
 
 n and women i;et the saiii" imv for like uoil 
 
 Mr. Sims. I'',ir from it. 
 Mr. < »'Do\oi.iiri.. in ml 
 
 ler word 
 
 miLilit iini 
 
 ler^land liiat if 1 
 
 were I'ett ii '' a 
 
 jiarticul 
 
 ■;tylti of .suit made to order, a man woikiiiL;' on it would net one price Imt if 
 
 iiuan male that snine suit tor the same employer and the two art ichs Ixunii ( ipially 
 
 well maiie s ,e won 
 
 ler work' lull T wdiild pay the same price for 
 the suit to th<! master tailor. I wdiild not jj;i'l ,iny adxantau'c from the lower price of 
 the woman's kihour. I understand you to say t'lat she would not got- as minh. 
 
 Id not n'l^t as much for 1 
 I 
 
 .Mr. Sims. N' of 1 
 
 >y 
 
 uue 
 
 df. 
 
 The C'oMMi.ssioM.U. -'I'liat is a mean kind of sweating;. 
 
 Mr. SiM.s. -You iiiiisi under.stand that these women di'al diiccth- 
 
 with t he ma'^t'-r 
 
 tailors. They take the j^arments out. aijreeiii>,' upon the price they are to yet fur tin 
 and that is LTcnerallv oih' half less than a man would uet for the same Ljarment. 
 
 .Mr. < )'Do\oi:iiii:, Tl 
 
 1\' inference to he d 
 
 raw n i- 
 
 tl 
 
 s<ai'ci'ly miss an opportunity of sendiiiLCas miu 
 
 lis -an em] 
 
 il'iNcr wo 
 
 Ilk 
 
 a-v posNihle of in\- work into I 
 
 le w om.in s 
 
 liands. 
 
 Mr. Sims. — Mxactly. 
 
 The CoM.MissioMii, — Do ])ieue hands ma]<e liiLiher or lower' w 
 
 l-es tl 
 
 i,in (lav or week 
 
 liaml 
 
 .Mr. S.\Xi;sTi;ii said that with a numlier of oti 
 
 n into a case where the midilleman, altlioui^di ]iiid 
 
 (ler liim l)V the wci 
 
 After th 
 
 ler men he had made an in\('stii;a- 
 ly the pi(>(.'e, was payini;' tlmsi^ un- 
 
 Muestiiiation th(>v c.iine to the concln.^ion ih.it if 
 
 the mirls had iieen deali.iii' directly with the wholesalers they could ha\'e made from one 
 and a i alf to t wo dol'ars per week more tliantlie_\ were earniiiu- The piecework would 
 
 rea 
 
 llvl 
 
 le more 
 
 heni'l 
 
 icial 
 
 Mr. (ii'iiO!'si\\ . !n tin; coat trade all piece workers ^et liettcr wa'.;es than we (l( 
 The CoMMissioNKi!.- -Don't they work lon;L,'er hours ' 
 
 M r. ( IfiiOi'SKV.— No, the same hours, 'i'he s| 
 
 loll olielis MIU 
 
 1 cli 
 
 ises at the same time 
 
 as ou I'- 
 
 ll is the same in the shirt trade, ti 
 
 The CoM.MI.ssioN'f.li. — You work wci'k work ic 
 wages than if you were working piece work 
 
 D^ 
 
 (> Viitl lluiKc 
 
 hi.-l 
 
 er or lower 
 
 Mr. (!lU(.i|-sKV, - I lielieve that 1 would y(t hetter wa^cs. T 
 
 lere are some 
 
 haiid> 
 
 wdikingin our simp who don t do a- iiiucii wdrk as some of the iitliers. 'Idle L'ood hands 
 hav(,' to inak(^ iiii for the inditrereut ones. 
 
i 
 
 45 
 
 Mr. ODoxo.iiiii;. ft is ni.liinil tliat, fvoiy iiwni ami \\<,mi.iii wmkiinr l,y tl,o | i,.,'o 
 will w.,ik haidcr aiKJ hnnU-v. uitlmnt krcpin^/t heir iinilii, in \i,.w, tni' lli.' '.-ak,. of in- 
 d'casin;^' tiii'ir \va;.^i's. 
 
 'Die CoNnilSSInVi:!!. Suppusin- Ihal the Illfll WCIM- W,.rkill- 1,V IIm' pirrr Wnllld 
 
 tlK'V ii(,i stiviiii i'vi'iy i„.r\c In iui. till' waycs up, aiMJ wdiiiil nut ilic (.|iiji|..v<'f, as lias 
 Keen said iict'oif. tlim lii'^^in '^i icdiici- llic juicf paid In pVrr wnrkiTs ,' 
 Ml'. I >'l»iiNni.iK:|.; and ( »iiii;i;s. -^^.^, i hat's it. 
 
 Mr. <)'l»n\n..iiii:. My cxprrirnc.' ;is a wnrkin-inan and I pivMiiiic thai nnc wh,. 
 wnrkfd tnr Iwcnty scars as a piinlcr 'Uinht to know snincihiiiu- .dMHii it has l.ccn thi.s 
 -^ and I lliiiik ii applies in all trades : A ni.iii sets a nuinlier of pcupl,. at work i.y tlio 
 l.ir<'(. Thi'v work harder ihan they ever did lief.. it. h.ixin- n., thin- in I heir mind's l.ut, 
 how niuelMhey ean pat to llieir eredil I.y payday. Dire tly the . mployer liotires this, 
 he says: These t'ellows were rohhiii-- nie uiieii I w .is j.a yin-- I hem l.y | h(^ week. lit* 
 he,i;ins to think that they "took it out of him ' I.y not doii,M- their hi'st when workin- 
 liv the week. Then he Leuins to eiit dou ii the prices on \arious items ot' the uo.k, sa>-^ 
 in;,': "i eannol ;dl'ord to p,iy any more.' lie eiils aw.iv. The men exert I hein^lvi's 
 iiiore than ever unlil, turnin-dut more w.ak than tornierly, they a^'aiii hei; n to e.nii 
 hi;.;li wa,-vs. Then the Loss diseovefs that other prices Juive to' he cut down, and tlio 
 wa,Lres drof) asraiii. 
 
 The CoMMissioNKi;. That has been theCase. Fs there a urealer proportion ot' idle 
 men in tiie trade now than .orinerly / 
 
 .Mr. Lovi: ^1 don't know as to the wholesale trade. There is in the iviail. 
 ^[r. <)'l)oN(.i.iirK.— -Are yc.n apiilyinu' the i|iieMion exeliisiscly to the clothiii;,' 
 trade.' hoyou w.aiii to make it .apply to ot her t rades .' The carpenters Ihmv miuhl say 
 .somelhinu'. 
 
 The ('oMMissio\|.;i;, ( )t' course. 1 u ,as appi vin,-- this part icid.irly to ih,. cl,,thiiiL,' 
 trad". ^'et any information in re-.ird toother tr.ides will l.e of henetit. 
 
 .Mr. (iiiiorsKy. AVe have Lfot loo m.iny idle hands walkin;,' around in this city, 
 Tlie C'oMMi.ssio.NKii. Is tlii'i'e a (h'creased demand for lal.oiir, owin;,' to a decivasod 
 demand for i;(.ods, (.r is tin,' (h'mand for <.;o(.ds ,is -reat< as it was ', 
 .Mr. .S|\is. -l-esser in ours— the custom trade. 
 .Mr. l.o\i;.- In others more than in ours. 
 
 The C'oMMi.ssioNKH. --'I'hat is, that the trade is ii;re,itly ;,'oiiiL:' inlu the wholes, de. 
 .Mr. .'^iMs. Ves, passihi;- from one into the otiier. 
 
 'I he t'oMMissioNKii. — Has there i.een ;in undue fostering' of the a]iprenl icfshiii sys- 
 tem .' —I )o y(.u know of instaiH'cs where men make a praci ice of emj)lo\iim- .iiipiri'iitices 
 simply to ^et cheap labour .' 
 
 S\\: Loyi;, — I tiiink that is the case. 
 The Co.MMissioNKii. — You thiid< that is the ca.se? 
 Mr. LovK. — "N'es. 
 
 ^Fr. (iiiioKSKy. — There is a man on l-'ailey A\enue doiun' that kind of thinu-. 
 The UoMMissioNKi!. -Ho employers who ent^a^e ai.prentices undertake to teach 
 tliem the trade or a particular iiraiuh of it / 
 
 .Mr. Imw.. -That is my experience, tliouuh T have h.ul i^irls working; for me 
 lhrouL;h tile whole routine. As a rule, however, the yirls just learn (.no particular 
 branch. 
 
 The CoMMi.ssio.VKU. - |)o you believe that there are men who just take ai.prenl ices in 
 to get cheap work and then turn ihein out ,' 
 
 .Mr. I.ovi:. If they continue to work ehea.p, they don't turn them out. 
 The CoMMissio.\i;i(.— Are they taught the trade suMicieiitly as to enable ihein to 
 get work at another place in another branch of the work .' 
 Mr. [..ovi:. — '^riie majority are not. 
 
 The (JoMMissioNKit. <Jf course that is simply a swindle to take in girls and (jiily 
 [iretend to teach them a trade. 
 
 ilr. LoyK — You must look at it in this light. The majority just ask for work and 
 not tu learn a trade. 
 
 M 
 
40 
 
 Till' CiniMissioM'.n. — f N'''' tVciiucntly lulvcrliscincnts in tlio piipcis for iippi'ciitirfs 
 tur this i\iu\ thill ti'iidc — Mild I luisc uImhiI conic |«> tlic coiwhisioii that it i^ riot 
 ,i|i|iicnl ices the piiflit's w.iiii. hut -;iiii|ily chi'iip woikcr. 
 
 Me. |,ovK. I iichcvc th.it thiit i^ the case 
 
 1 heir inireiits yo \\ i 
 
 It they aic yoiiiif to h'aiii a tra(h' 
 til them to see tiiat evervthiiii,' is s.niarc. I'lit it a L;irl comes to us 
 
 skin;,' t' 
 
 iir w ork s 
 
 {)!• three iiioiitli 
 
 ic Is put to some p, 
 
 I' 
 ft icular branch. Notrailccaii lie jcaiiicd in two 
 
 Mr, SritAriiAN. 
 
 liieresncli a thiiiu in your cstalih^iimciit as icarnini^ a yii'l 
 
 throimh two or three years until slic knows the trade 
 
 Mr. l-ovi;. Ni 
 .Mr. 'liiiMiii.i;. 
 
 I ha\e i\\enl\' iir t w cut \' li\ e itirls wurkiiiL; tor iiie, and iinl niie of 
 
 tlicm coi 
 
 lid make a coat ri.i,' it tliitiunh. 
 
 .Mr. ( )'l loNooin K. - As a matter ot tact is there any apjireiit icoliip .-ystini at all] 
 
 .Mr. TiiiMiii.i-, 
 
 No. W 
 
 e ])ay just what wayes we have to pa\' {<< a gir 
 
 .Mr. ( ('DoNOi.iiii;. - .\nd ym let her l;i> any lime she sees lit 
 
 Mr. 'ruiMiti.i:. -Yos. 
 
 Mr. Sims. In the custom tradu it 
 
 iil t le dillci'ciil. 'J'lii' hraiK'lies lit' the tradi? 
 hands. Thev make the patits aiid \est.and when a <.dri j^'oes to learn llio 
 
 have ;;ii 
 
 trade slie learns it riuht iliKni-ii. 
 Mr. O'DoNooiii !•:. - lUit tlieri 
 
 n a])]irci!tlceslilp system as 
 
 We uiiiler^tand it. 
 
 Mr. Sims. \o 
 
 The t'oMMlssioN'lOli. — Ihere are no indentures. 
 
 Mr. Sims. 
 
 No. Tiiere used to 1 
 
 r\e four years, Now tliat is changed 
 
 c an indenture system, and apprentices 
 
 liad 
 
 Mv. n l)o\oi;in i: 
 
 am awa 
 
 re of establishments, not in your line, howovei', 
 
 wiiere they make a- liabit of athci tisiiii; extensively fur women and ^irls. 'I'lie terms 
 act;- " Work three weeks for notliiiii,', but if we lind duriiij,' that time that you are 
 reallv of use we will pay V"" sometliiiif^. Then from that forward we jiay V^u so much 
 iiiid as you improve we pay more. The resu 
 
 lit of that dodi'c and 1 recall on 
 
 )articular 
 
 nstance - is tiiat the establishment had the labour of from JT) to 40 <drla 
 
 freelbicause they always lind fault with iliem before the three weeks is tip. In the 
 case 1 j)articularizeil it was discovered and punished. 
 
 ^Ir. Lovi'.. —There is no smh thing existing in the clnihing trade. 
 
 Mr. ( !i;i!Ol''SKY.- -I may say that it does. 1 have known it toexi-t in tli(! ])ant and 
 clothing trade. A girl in our trade may have to work three or four years in one par- 
 ticular branch. If she leaves the shop she cannot strike another situation in her parti- 
 cular branch, aiul having learnt only that, cannot enter another department. 
 
 Mr. Lovi:.--The wholesale trade is carried on by the departmental system. 
 
 The CoMMissioNKii. ("an the girl'^ working .at tli 
 Toronto take any garment and tlnish it 
 
 e wlioiesale s|i( 
 
 >p 111 the city or 
 
 Mr. Davis.-— You can't get one man wlm is a L'<iod bricklayer and stonemason c 
 
 om- 
 
 bined ? 
 
 iir. 0'])( ..'odin'K. — i'>ut a gooil liricklayer can do all that is connected with building 
 far as the builder i.s concerned — build .i true .ircli l.'iy bricks s^iread mortar and 
 
 oai'i'V a 
 
 hod. 
 
 Mr. S.v.Ni:sri;i!. — That has nothing to do with the (|uestion. 
 
 Mr. (iliiOi'sKV. — Some of these a|)prentices think they are going to learn tlit; trade. 
 The CoMMiSsoNKU. — Y'e.s. I don't doul)t that. 
 Mr. LovK. — Not in the wholesale trade. 
 Mr. (ilUOFSKV. — Y'"es. 
 
 Mr. Davis. --A man or girl comes into an establishment and say they prefei' to 
 aril this or that branch. There is no jiretense that thev ar.' going to learn a trade, 
 
 1 1 
 
 lave lU" 
 
 ver started a girl for nothing. She gets a dollar a week — if she is in the 
 
 shoe, even if she does nothing. 
 
 Mr. SriiACHAN." She won't get the dollar unless she works for it. 
 Mr. Davks. — She gets the dollar. 
 
47 
 
 Till' ( 'oMMissioNKii. It' llii'V arc HiiMjaycil \,y ilir ucrk I sliuulil Miv iliitai ilic 
 wculi's cml iIh'V art' ciililli'il tu a wcek'.s piiy. 
 
 Ml'. liiiVK. It' llit'y ai'f nil" a (lay, a dayN pay is lak. n (ill. 
 
 'I'lll' ( '(iMMISSliiNI.;!!. I lit' Mil lll.ll it' llir\ ciiilli'ill .IIH 1 Vull liun'l lia\(' \\(ifl< t'lir tlu'lll 
 
 that is ymir Inuk lait. 
 
 Mr. StI{.\(.'II.\X. \iy\\ sec iiiiw tli.ii u iiiuli il udi' ut 1,'irU iiii' (lr,u\ii iiiiii ilic l)l|silu^s^ 
 witli a view to learn .sdinctliiiiu wliidi will ciliIpIi- tlicin in make ilinr li\cliliiMP(l. Tlioy 
 yo in witli llic iilca, (liat tln-y ;ii'o ;^"iini,' l(» li'.irn the Ir.nli' tliiirciii;;lilv. Uni r.'irh Ims to 
 lake a r riain |M)sition and yocs t'luin tlicii' In llic niarliinc. She leaves ihi re in a t'ew 
 yt'ars |M'it'eetly lle||l|e^s so far us to tiein,;,' aMc lo ei,iii|ileie iiiiy luiiinli ot' llie work oiit- 
 siilc ot liei ou n (le|iiirl men I. She .should he ;ili|e (o learn, so thai in \.\\i> or three years 
 .shi' eoiild know every rjeparl luenl instead ot' .is now lieinn de|iendenl upon one. 
 
 The ( 'oMMIssloVKi;. As I u lldeist ,i niM I , I lie I ell leiiey ot' I lie s\ si eiii is I he 'ixisioii 
 ot' lalionr. We ^el experts in on,' partieiilar line. It' you piil them llirotiiih all ihe 
 trade would t hey he expi'ils .' 
 
 -Mr. (!li;i isKV. There are men in thiseity who hu c lieeii t hree yeai > in the trade 
 and are no' eapahle ot' earnini; .''^(t per week. (Jirlsare the same way workiiii; throe 
 years at, the same tiiin;,'. .\dvertisniiient- trec|iieiii |y appear tor uirls to luaiii eoal 
 makiiiLj. They j,'o and at the end of sj.x iiionihs if they iinpiiri' when they are ^dini{ to 
 start lo learn tlie I rad(' t'ley yet tireil. I don'l say that these ;;enl leiiUMi would do it. 
 
 .Mr. liOVK. — As 1 said before, I don't, think any wholesale man here takes a ;.'iil in 
 to learn the trade, ^^nl eaniioi compel that to work. There is ii'i .■ii.'reemenl. If I 
 take a ^irl as .ipprent iee I i;i\e her s| per week for the llrsi three months. Tt lies with 
 herself what particular liraiich she will learn after tli'ii, | would not miarantee to learn 
 1 hem .1 trade. 
 
 Mr. t )'l)ONo(iiiui;. My object was- in U^adiiij^ this disetissioii that seeing that 
 tli(! term apj)reiitice had heeii iiseci so often as to eoiney the impression that there was 
 an appieiilieeship system and I wanted to slmw that there was no system as that term 
 ou;.;lit to he applied. 
 
 The CoMMissiONKH. — .My object was to know if tleiew.is such .i thiiiii as o\er- 
 loadiiit; the market with apprentices in order to cheapen labour* 
 
 .Mr. Lo\ i;. If a j^ii'l linislies for me ami there is some faidt fouml, oi' she lea\t's, she 
 goes somewhere else atul yets work in a similar department, thus making' way for another. 
 
 Mr. I'"'kiH)i;u. I understand. .Mr. ( 'oinmissioner, that you aski'd if the market was 
 oyeriM'owded with worker;; 
 
 The CoMMissioMcu. ^'es, but I said — " Is it because of two many apprentices? " 
 
 Mr. I''i;i»i)i;n. — ^It is because there are too many idle workinu people lai the market. 
 Apprentices liaye also sometiiini^ to ilowitli it. I want to clearly understand fi'om 
 these Ljentlemen for what |)iirposes they are takinij; the ap|)rentices on. l-'or faxour to 
 the tapprentices or to t!iemsel\t's ? If there was mort,' labour than labourers it would 
 of course i)e ali ri.i;ht. What has made it necessary to take the.so apprentices on .' One 
 gentleman says he takes an apprentice on at one dollar a week for three months and 
 that the wholesale trade is divisional. Now it does not take three months to learn tlu! 
 simpler branches. When a j,'irl stays over .a month she i)ecomes worth two dollars per 
 week. I>y the end of three months she is surely worth four dollars, if she keeps to one 
 branch. They lui\ c mor(> experienced hands in tlu' market knockin|j; at the cJoor for 
 work, but by taking on apprentices the l)osses are making money. A girl tliree months 
 at one branch uiulerstaiuls that branch as well as a girl who has been at it three years 
 and she ought to receive tlie same wages. 
 
 Mr. Lo\i;. — I have taken on apprentices in our s 'iise of tlie word who iiave been 
 very good with the needle, and startci them with three dollars per week. I!ut those 
 we refer to particularly have just left school, and the majority of them have never had 
 a needle in their hands. Now, for a n-an to say that a girl just over fourteen who has 
 never had a needle in her iiand is worth three dollars per week in three months time is 
 saying that my experien(;e goes for nothing. The great troid)le I hasc is to h'arii them 
 to sew — to get them so broken in as to know what to do and how to do it. 
 
 Mr. Fkdder. — One Ijranch does not take long to learn. 
 
4S 
 
 Tlir ( 'iiMM|ss|n\i;it, This is liU'l'i'ly il >ii If isMl"'. M\ jMiinl i- It I lli'lc is Inu lilllrli 
 IuIhiUI' ill llli' in.ilki'l w'ly i|n lIll'M' llll'll lake nri ll|i|il('nliLM'S .' I .mi iml 'jniiiL: in llsSdIMO 
 
 tliiit IIh-i' iiicM l.iki' ipii a|i|iiciil ii'cs t'i»r |pliiliiiiflir '[iliy. 'Tln'V iit im>I in ijn' liii-incsx 
 t'lir tlii'ir lii'.illli. 
 
 Ml. < 1| Kol sl\\ . N'ctsMiiir lit' llii'iii arc kli'iw II In s\s iiidlr tlii'ir li.iiiils to '.'il clicap 
 laliiiiii'. 
 
 'I'Im' ( 'u\imiss|um;i!. I>iit's it sduii'liMics ur t, i'i|iii'iii ly lia|i|icii iliai ihiii' is a ,siii|i|iis 
 til' laliniir ill sniiH' cilifs or towns mid u srarciiy in miIhts .' 
 
 Ml', l,o\ K. I lii'lii'Nt' it. (lofM, 
 
 'I'Im' ( 'uMMiss|ii\i.;i;, 'I'liat Is, t liai iiicii iiiii;iit in- loukiiii; lor woij^ in llaniilion 
 wlii'ii tlicri' is a (li'iniir.ii I'ni lalimir in 'Inronhi.' 
 
 Mr l.o\i.. Vrs. 
 
 Mr. Ci lio^■sK^. I know iliat tor a |iositi\r l'a<i. F yoi a letter rcTiitly t'roiii 
 LMndnii statiiii: that a linn wunteil i \> o hamls there. I sent, twn men ilown, who were 
 immediately taken nn and are working' tlieii- now. 
 
 M r. < I i loNoc.mi: tlioiiL;ht that thai was aiio'.Iier evidence iliat tlie laliniir laireau 
 ■should lie estalilished liy the ( ■o\erniuent . 
 
 '['he CoMMisslo.M'.ii. 1 may say thai I lia\e it in mv i.dnd to ni.iki' a reeomnicnila 
 t ion to the ( lovernmcnt that when they |iiii that lalioiir laireaii into o|ieiation, ihata, 
 record he ke|)t of employers who want em|i|oyees in any tiadi-, and that a rec-ord he 
 kcp' and e\ohaiiL,'ed weekly dy menus ot' tlie jio.st uHiecs oi" customs houses. 
 
 Mr. ' >'| loNooiil'i;. I miL.'ht. slate that that system |irevails in I he State ot' ()liio. 
 
 The CoMMisstoMHi. And in Calit'ornia, too. 
 
 .Mr. (>T (oVoiMlfK. — Vt's, ami it has heen of material a(l\anta;,'e to the workers. It 
 is possilile tiiat there miu'lil '»' frei|neinly a dem.iiid for nuMi in other places and a sur- 
 plus here, and we would n il know of it unless liy clian -e, such as in casual menti- i|i 
 a private letter. 
 
 The Ci'MMissioNKii. - If a striiment law was p.issed to pre\ent or suppre; .0 
 sweating .svstom or to contiol it in il .s pro\iiice, would lh;i,l lia\e the eU'ect of scatler- 
 iiiy- the trade 1 
 
 Mr, Ijovi',. I think so. If --uch a law was passed, it should lie made to appiv 
 tlirouifhout the dominion. T ln\e heard of men seiidiiii,' clothiiii,' from l.nndon and 
 Toronto to Montreal to gt^ the work done a little i-heaipci', 
 
 The ( 'oMMissioNKK. — Yt's, I liavc hoard of that. I may say that stringent laws iti 
 New York and Massaciiusetts haxe alieady had the eth'ct of drivin;; a lar;;e share of 
 New Y'ork work to .New .lersey. and .Massachi^'Hts work into .Maine. I have heard it 
 .said thai the enforcement of the Factory .\ct 1,1 this |irovince places employees at a dis- 
 advanlaec as compareil with other j)i-o\iiices. 
 
 .Mr. fjov 1;.-- I don't think so. 
 
 Mr. (il'Kol'SKV.-l believe that it does. .My lioss i^'riimMcs and says thai the.\ct 
 is not stringently cnfurced in ((>uei)ec. 
 
 .Mr. ( >'|)oNoiiin'i;. — Tin' welfare and health nf the peo|)le should he the first con- 
 sideration. When the c|Uestion was put to u> If we i^t^t this Act in < >ntario, what will 
 be the result in the other jirovinces, we said ; ^'mi pass the law, and then let the (rourts 
 decide whether you have the |iuwer to (Miforoe il or not. (live an evidence of ynur sin- 
 cei'ity in trying t<i do what is riulil. We lielie\-e that this is a matter that I'omes nnder 
 trade ami coinmi'rce, and, if so, the i)ominion ( lo\ einmenl lias a ri^ht to ujihold tlicj law. 
 
 The C()MMissiONi;it. — You may reniendtef that some year's ai,'o in addressing the 
 Manufacturei'.s' Association, 1 made the statement that it would be unfortunate if it 
 should turn out that jurisdiction did not lay with the Dominion (ioveniment, for the 
 reason that pro^jressivc provinces would be at a di-ad\antaL;e compared with non-[)i'o- 
 gressive ones, and that it would operate agairist getting' legislation tending to lessen the 
 evils of the sweating system. 
 
 3Ii'. C)'I)onoi:iii;k. — F remember that. What we want soim^ (lovi'inments to do is 
 to go on believing that they have some power, and let the others tlnd out if they have 
 not. 
 
 i 
 
i;» 
 
 Till) CoMMisstoNKK. — When tlic Iwictury Act, wu-t inlrniliiri'il into llif hniniiiion 
 Hulls*', r iir\'<'(l on till' l'"itiaiicti .MiMi-.lt'i' tlmsc views. Ilr wii-i doiilii t'lil wlirritlm 
 jurisdictidii luy, liut I iirL;i'(l llial wo ;,'ot a jiixiil KiHtory Act anyway. Is tin* prc-t'iit 
 l"'iu't()ry Act sutliciciitly hinad in its pi'uN isions to unsiiri' oH'cctivt' inH|icctiun of sliops in 
 wliicli clothing; is niado ! I tliink from the unswtM's to oilier (|tit'stii)ns tliat we ar(> ail 
 a;.'recd tlial il is no! Iiroad enou;^li aiiil iliai ue have not enough iiisjicctnrs to make it 
 otUcient. 
 
 Mr. iiovi;. — I can aj^ree with that. 
 
 The ("oMMis.-ioNKii. — f think it woiiM l)e hetter if we had more inspeetors. |)o 
 Workmen eiii|iloye(| in the onlei'cd clotliiii;; t I'ade fret|iienlly take ijnods Imme to Ik? 
 there made up with the assistance of their families ,' 
 
 .Mr. S.wosrKU. — It is lary,ely done in tlu* custom work at the pr<"-eni lime for this 
 reason : there are very few employers who ]irovid(^ back shops oi- other" acconniiodat ion for 
 those employed. Where no accomiiio(l,ii inn is provided, then of i oiirse the work is taken 
 ti> the lioiues. That is detrimental 1 lie|ie\e not only to those iait to eveiy one in the 
 uiothinj,' trade. 
 
 The CoMMlssio\i;it. -In coinersalion with me recently, a nn'irjiant tailoi- took tlie 
 ;,'round that while ill il was true, he did not lielieve that tailor' took ad\aniaL,'e of their 
 I'hililreii or worlcrd loni.'er hours than in a shop. 
 
 Mr. iSrHACll.W. - I f a man ^'oes into a >hop and t ikcs work liome he i-, tiild thai it 
 linist he done at a certain time. lie sits at lnHiie and wuiks away until lie has it 
 Ihiished. If the men would conline their work to ten hours a day and allow nothing' 
 to intiirfere with that arian;^einent, ihe sur[)lus lahmir would come olVllie market !o a 
 groat extent. Ihil under the present .system the yoods are -.pread ;ill over the city and 
 those vvlio ^el thei'hance iire ;rlad to work nl.iil and day. 'I'liis reduces the season, for 
 the season doi's not now last more than ihn-r weeks in the summer and the same in the 
 winter. The rest of the time the men aie laii,'ely idle, reduced to a jnli a week. Thtj 
 only fatdt 1 have uith the union is that' it dues not restrict the hours of lahour of its 
 nieinliers sf( as to he an e\am|ile to all lal>ourei>. 
 
 The CoviviissioNKi;. -When ihe employees lak(! work out do lla^y work later than 
 they would in the shops I 
 
 Mr. STit.\('iiAN. — The unions cannot restrict the hours w In n^ people work in ilnirnwn 
 houses. 
 
 Mr. S.\Ni;sTKU. There was a tailor last July who employed 1'2 ov \i hands in a 
 back .shop. For the privilege of workini,' in that shop the hands paid him fifty to 
 seventv-tive cents per week. After a while a certain nuinher of them did not feel 
 inclined to go into the slujp tii-ciuse it was not lit to go into it and they would not go 
 into it. Then the tailor lu'cause he could not di.aw the full revenue for rent for the 
 shop closed it and the people took the work to their homes. 
 
 Th ' CoMvii.ssioXKK. — Are there any per-ons in the city who have no shops and yet 
 work for inanufactuT'ers and distrihute to suh contractors ? 
 
 Mr. Lovi:. — I don't think so. 
 
 Mr. (U lioKsKY. — There is one thing that yi>u have not brought out. is about 
 
 the man going in and getting work from the wholesaler —at any price- , g a shop, 
 
 hiring girls, getting them to work for two weeks, receive his money from tl:-, wholesaler, 
 and then skipping out and leaving the girls in the lurch. Our suggestion was that the 
 wholesaler should be responsible that the people who made the wc rk were paid. He 
 (the wholesaler) would then see that he dealt with good contractors. 
 
 The CoviMissioMcit. - I must say that I don't see the way in which the remedy is to 
 be applied. What in your opinion would be practicable? 
 
 Mr. Thimble. — It could be woiked if you compelled the wholesalers to make con- 
 tractors put up security. 
 
 Mr. LoVK. — That would be the way. 
 
 The CoMMissioNKK. — That would be no great hardship to responsible men. 
 
 Mr. Love. —No. It is a hard thing that girls ,sh< uld be robbed in that way. The 
 wholesale men don't care who gets the work so that it is done cheap. If the manu- 
 61—4 
 
WT 
 
 60 
 
 t'.irturci- wcif responsible for thn.se girls' wages he would lie /ij)t to look more strictly 
 iifUT the p.irties he let it out to. 
 
 Mr. H'l ),>\(i(iiii-|;.-- The coiidiaM <it' one or two I'a.seuls like tho^e we have had 
 e.\ani|i|es ot' thn.ws dii^';aeo upon a lot nf men who are trying to do right. 
 
 Mr. Lo\ I.. -Yo.s. And a security would have the tendency of keeping (hat clas.s 
 of nien out. As far as my e.\[)ei'ienee g<>e^, the giMieral hody of contractors in 'i'oronto 
 (ii'c a resp't able class of men. 
 
 The Co^iMihsioxKii. — 1 have been given to under>lanil that the car])enters lnvve 
 something to say to niglu. 
 
 .Mr. John Kanic — (Who was inti'oduced a.s representing the eai'peeter>' union.) 80 
 far as the i'ar|ji'ntering trad<^ is concerned there is a tendency un the part of contractors 
 in the city of Toronto to adopt the sweating .system. The cai'penter employed by a sub- 
 contr-actor has no po.ssibility to make a living wage. A party last sunnner w anted some 
 sheeting don". He jiaid by the |)iece. The man who worked oi\ it the; lii-st day made 
 ;{() cents; he ([uit the job : tln^ next man made 2\ cents for the day and he threw it up. 
 Tiie work was tinished on piece work by different men trj'ing to earn a day's wages on 
 it. There is a great deal of piece work in the trade. .\ contractor building a house 
 gives lb': c.irpentcring to a sub contractor, who has it done by piecework. Men have 
 been known to makt; only •'-' t to S") per week — work hard as tlu'y will -und' ;• such cir- 
 cumstances when the} .should have eai'ned S'> a day. Tin* thing is growing and cannot 
 be put a stop to too (juick. T am glad a con;niission has been appointed on the matter, 
 It is an evil thrt should be put a .--top to. We are not able to do it ourselves. We 
 cannot eo] e with the manufacturers in this line. 
 
 '1 hi' (Vo.MMissioNKR. — Public opinion seems to almost force the Government to get 
 their ovvn work done bv contract. 
 
 Mr. IvwK. — i'jven the carpentering in our Parliament Ituildings was done by 
 contract, aii'l even the planing of thi; floors was done in that way. The mea had to 
 work like slaves to make a li\ ing. Yoti will always find it that way until a radical 
 change is made. 
 
 .Ml'. < iiifoi'sKV.--\Vould it not be jiissible tc) pre\ent articles intended for wear 
 being made in pri\'.ile houses .' 
 
 Till' t 'o\i\iissio\Kii.- I have not lost sight of that jihase b}' any means. There is a 
 law now before the courts of the l'nite(' States by \fhich it is proposed to provide that 
 l:ie wholesaler nnist haxc ; lic((nse for each man h<' gives out clothing to. Ihn 1. don't 
 thiid< that ii will ever bt\'oin( a law, although '*; has received the endorsation of a g<jod 
 many labour bodies, and that of the Convention of Factory Inspectors recently held. 
 
 Mr. < )'i )f)\o(;iiUK. — The intention of tin; licensee was as a safeguard in regaiil to 
 sanitiry coiulitioiis. jiy being ■lii'igcd to license each persoii who took out wurk for 
 him the wholesaiei' would hav" to get their address and iiKpiire into *he condition of 
 their estatilisbments. If one or two of those places were not well kejii it would 
 ndlitate ag>dnst him, and his trade would *^all otr because of the rejiorts of the (loveru- 
 luent in-<])ectors. It would at lain to a great improvement in sanitary matters. 
 
 .Ml'. (JfitoKSKV. \ vvoiii 111 might Uiko work to her pi'iv.ite house — and it might- bo 
 a eh'Mii one -but that is what is killing (tur trade. 
 
 'j"he ( 'oM\iissio\Kii. — W'e have not got power to interfere with the i-ights of private 
 indiv iduals. 
 
 Mr. t> DoNOoin K (to (Jui'ofskv). — Have you <;onsidere(l in this connection the 
 result to honest withjws whf) have children and who could not leave those children to 
 go ard work in pl.-ices av ay fi'om their homes, and who by force of circumstances are 
 compelle(] to earn theii- own living.' '\'our system would not be right for her. 
 
 Ml'. (Jt KorsKV. — ] should think the law should be framed for the greatest 
 gowd of the greatest number. 
 
 The (>oMMissniN!:i(.— Would it be a great good to deprive an honest woman of a 
 day's v\'ork ? 
 
 ^[r. O'Donociu'E. - -T sincerely hope that there will never be a law passed that will 
 hfive such an ellect. lUit T hope that there will be a law to prevent her emjiloying 
 other people ti) wo: k for hei' in her house. 
 
ll 
 
 Mr. LovK. — There arc pkuity of wdl-lu-do uiarrioil women — when I say " well 
 to-do," 1 mean women whost; liusbaiuls are making yocul wages — who will come down to 
 wholesale places and take out vyork. They want a litll ; more money for dx'ess and 
 linery and comi)ete a,i;ainst gii'is who are workini,' for a living. 
 
 I\Ir. ()'DoNO(im K. — That just goes to .siiow that a measure of that kind requires 
 careful legislation. 
 
 The Commi.ssioner tiianked the Committees of tlie .several organizations repre- 
 .sented for theii- attendance and for their assistance in eliciting informaiiim on the 
 several branches of the subject he had been commissioned to investigate, and the meeting 
 adjourned.