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^^2% 
 
 MINUTES 
 
 QV 
 
 PROCEEDINGS AT A MEETING 
 
 UULU AT THE 
 
 Thatched House Tavern, St. James's Street, 
 
 Oti SATUUBAY, the Uh JUNE, 1858, 
 
 IIKLATIVE TO 
 
 THE FORMATION OF THE 
 
 ti:^ 
 
 HALIFAX AND QUEBEC RAILWAY. 
 
 VISCOUNT BURY, M.P., in the Chair. 
 
 LONDON: 
 
 WILLIAM PENNY. PRINTER AND LITHOGRAPHER. 
 
 57,, LINCOLN'S-INN FIELDS. 
 1858. 
 
M 
 
*t» 
 
 PIIESKNT: 
 VISCOUNT HURY, M.P., in tiir Chair. 
 
 The Rt. Hdll. SOTHERON ESTCOURT, M.P. 
 
 Capt. tlie Hon. John Vivian, M.P. 
 The Hon. Sir A. Nafieh Macnab, Bart. 
 Viscount GoDERiCH, M.P. 
 Tlie Hon. Samuel Cunard. 
 Colonel BoLDERO, M.P. 
 James Wyi.d, Esq., M.P. 
 
 The Hon. Chas. Fitxwim.iam, M.P. 
 
 li. P. NiSBET, Esq., M.P. 
 
 The Hon. Justice Haliburton. 
 
 John Neeld, Esq., M.P. 
 
 Fuas. S. HHi.vD, Esq. 
 
 Alfred Roche, Esq., and Othersj. 
 
 4^ 
 
 The Chajrman. — Gentlemen, before opening the proceedings, I 
 have to read two or three letters from gentlemen who have expressed 
 their interest in the cause, but who have been unable from various 
 circumstances to attend here to-day. The first is from Mr. Cum- 
 mins, a director of the British North-American Bank. He " regrets 
 " that it will not be in his power to be present at the Meeting to be 
 " held to-morrow,, having, previously to the receipt of your letter, 
 " made another engagement." He then says, " I am strongly con- 
 " vinced of the expediency of the object you have in view," I will 
 not read the whole letter. The next is from Mr. Terrell, chairman 
 of the Bristol Chamber of Commerce. He regrets it is not in his 
 power to be present at the Meeting, but he says " he considers that 
 " the completion of the railway is of great importance to the country 
 " generally, and to this locality (Bristol). Should our relations with 
 " the United States become unsettled, it would be absolutely neces- 
 " sary that there should be an uninterrupted railway communication 
 " between Hahfax and the interior of Canada." I will not take up 
 "the time of the Meeting by reading the remainder of the letter. 
 What I have already quoted is sufficient to show Mr. Terrell's 
 interest in the matter. There is another letter, from Mr. Samuel 
 Gurney, M.P. He regrets that his absence from London will pre- 
 vent his attending the Meeting. 
 
 I may also say I have had conversations with Mr. Headlam, M.P.-, 
 Mr. Schneider, M.P.; Mr. George G. Glyn, M.P.; Mr. Ackroyd, 
 M.P.; and Mr. Collins, M.P. They state that they are perfectly 
 ready, if this Meeting resolves on any course of action, to further 
 that course of action to the best of their power. 
 
 Now, gentlemen, it will be my duty, in as few words as possible, 
 to state the objects of this Meeting. (Hear, hear.) We all know 
 that we are met in the interest of a railroad, having for its termini 
 
 B 
 
Halifax on the Atlantic seaboard and Quebec on the St. Lawrence. 
 It will there meet a chain of railroads ah-eady constructed or in 
 process ui construction, wiiich will carry it far into the West. IhaL 
 is the object of the Me^'ting, to which I will recur in n moment. 
 
 But I must first say why I am in the chair. I know that in 
 the presence of a great many gentlemen connected with the colonies, 
 both by birth, by trade, and by intimate acquaintance with the 
 subject, it may seem to be an act of impertinence on my part 
 to come here and take the chair. I must, however, throw myself 
 on your indulgence. I have at least not done so without some 
 hesitation, and without having been fully convinced of the importance 
 of the meeting. I was for a considerable time in an official position 
 in Canada, and there I had full opportunity of ai)preciating the 
 absolute necessity which exists for the construction of a railroad of 
 this description. From that time to this I have been very much 
 interested in the success of the undertaking. I hope, therefore, I 
 shall be absolved from the charge of impertinence in preisiding l>erc 
 to-day. (Hear, hear.) 
 
 The Meeting, I need hardly say, is of an entirely preliminary 
 character, and commits no one to any course of action ^y anything 
 which may take place at it. We have simply met to ask the advice 
 (►f gentlemen interestetl in this matter, and to consult as to the 
 best means of carrying out an object which I believe we all have at 
 heart. 
 
 The first thing to which I will advert is the very great political 
 importance of this undertaking. Although its comnaercial import- 
 ance i.s not, I l)elieve, second to that of any railway that could be con- 
 structed. I am not competent to treat the subject from a commercial 
 point of view. I confess that I myself regard it almost entirely with 
 reference to its political advantages (Hear, hear), and it i.s principally 
 on tiiat account that I am interested about it. If any one looks at the 
 position in v/hich we now are with regard to our communication 
 with British North America, he will see that we depend almost 
 entirely for that communication on the United States. That ano- 
 malous position is partly owing, as I believe my friend Mr. Justice 
 Haliburton will confirm, to some verybungling diplomf»cy w'hich took 
 place a few years ago, and to which he so well alluded in a very able 
 lecture of his at Glasgow. (Hear, hciir.) Some millions of thi^ best 
 acres of timber-land in New Brunswick, and the navigation of Saint 
 John's river, were ceded, by the treaty to which I allude, to the 
 United States. 'J'he fact is indisputable that we are almost entirely 
 dependent for our communication with our greatest colony upon the 
 United States. When you once get into the interior of Canada, you 
 find railroads running from every direction, far away into the west ; 
 and it certainly is a very great mistake, in a political point of view, 
 that the principal link of the chain is wanting, and that we have not 
 already connected the most important sea-port of our North-Ameri- 
 can possessions with the interior of our colonies. Halifax presents 
 advantngci: which, I believe, are 
 
 
 enjoyed by any 
 
 port 
 
5 
 
 of Now York, that of beino^ open nil the year. Steamers (as my hon. 
 friend Mr. Cnnard will tell us) can always run into Halifax, and it 
 will be a saving of (JUO miles between liOndon and New York if we 
 had the terminus of the line of steamers at Halifax, and a railroad 
 running from Halifax to Quebec. The line would ultimately become 
 part of a vast chain of communication hetween the Atlantic and the 
 Pacific (Hear, hear), for, I believe, our trade in the Pacific Ocean 
 with China and with India, must uti.mately be carried on through 
 our North-American possessions ; at any rate, our political and 
 commercial supremacy will have utterly departed from us, if we 
 neglect that very great and important consideration, and if we fail 
 to carry out to its fullest extent the physical advantages which the 
 country offers to us, and which we only have to stretch out onr 
 hands to take advantage of. My friend Mr. Fitzwilliam will tell 
 U8 all about that. He has travelled more than once or twice over 
 the whole of the line of country between Vancouver's Island and 
 Canada, and he consequently knows a very great portion of that 
 country. I may observe in passing, although it hardly bears 
 directly upon the point which we are now discussing, that the land 
 between Lake Superior and the Rocky Mountains, is exceedingly 
 favourable for the continuing of our communication, and that a very 
 little trouble will make the Saskatchenan, which runs from the 
 Rocky Mountains to Lake Superior, navigable for ships of consider- 
 able size. The Columbia would afford another outlet to the sea ; 
 although, by another system of blundering diplomacy, the navigation 
 of the lower part of the Columbia has been lost to us. On taking n 
 l)ird's-eye view of the whole continent, we find that steam commn- 
 nication exists between St. Lawrence and the head of Lake Superior; 
 that steam communication may be very easily made between the 
 head of Lake Superior and Vancouver's Isla 1 ; and the only thing 
 we want to complete the chain will be this railway that we are 
 talking of between Halifax and Quebec. I think I need only aold 
 one thing more before dismissing this portion of the subject, in order 
 to prove its extreme importance in a political point oi view. Suppose 
 any difficulty should occur wiih the United States, sui)pose that 
 difficulty occurred in winter, the Americans could march a force 
 upon Quebec, and we should be utterly ircapitated from sending any 
 relief from England to raise the siege of that fortress. Our only 
 way of getting to Quebec is through Portland and the State of 
 Maine ; we should be debarred from goiog through Maine if we 
 were at v/ar with thu United States, and Quebec must Ml before 
 any assistance could come to it from our side of the water ; but, if 
 on the contrary, this railway were made, a state of war with the 
 United States would increase the resources of the railway, and 
 increase our commercial supremacy, by sending over it all the trade 
 which has hitherto been foreed to go by w^y of Portland — not, of 
 course, that I wish for war — I wish to deprecate war, especially one 
 with peo])le of our own race and language. But the best way to 
 preserve peace is to be prepared for its infraction, and i mean to :?ay 
 

 
 that wnr, if this railway wrro consitrnctcd, instead of hcin^ absolute 
 niin to ui», woiilil rut tho other way. It \vo\il(l he aetuiilly in our 
 favour insteiwl of aa;ainst up. 
 
 I will now pas's from that part of tho subject and toMch upon the 
 facilities which exist for earryiniij out tl;e railway. I have before tnc 
 n report which was made by a great friend of mine. Major (now 
 Colonel) Robinson, who surveyed the whole line at the instance of 
 the Imperial Government. He sent his report to the Governor- 
 General of Canada, wuo transmitted it home with a very flattering 
 despatch, in which he satisfactorily proves not only that the line is 
 perfectly practicable, but that it would be one of tlie cheapest lines 
 which could by any possibility be constructed. He estimates the 
 total cost of its construction at £.'3 ,000,000 (as this pamphlet which 
 my friend Mr. FitzwiUiam has before him mentions), or about £7,000 
 per mile ; and as the best proof that this estimate was ample, a line 
 of railway from St. Andrew's to Woodstock, on the western border 
 of new Brunswick, similar in all respects, has been constructed and 
 pronounced to be the best-finished hne in America, much under that 
 estimate." Now, that is the estimate that Major Robinson, in his 
 report, laid before the Imperial Government ; probably, therefore. 
 Major Robinson's estimate would be ample. But, as I said before, 
 I do not feel myself competent to enter into the commercial view of 
 the question ; I only wish to point to Major Robinson's report as 
 aHbrding very good evidence that the difficulties offered by the 
 ])hysical construction and lay of the land are not by any means 
 insurmountable, but, on the contrary, every facility is offered to the 
 line. 
 
 Now, in a pohtical point of view, the facilities afforded are very 
 considerable. On the 30th of May, 1849, Mr. Hincks, in the House 
 of Assembly of Canada, moved a series of resolutions, the last of 
 which, if you will allow me, I will read to this meeting, — " That if 
 Her Majesty's Government should undertake the construction of 
 the said railway, either directly or through the instrumentality of 
 u private company, it shall be lawful for the Governor in Council, 
 on behalf of this province, to undertake to pay yearly, in proportion 
 as the work advances, a sum not exceeding £'20,000 sterling, to- 
 wards making good the deficiency (if any) in the income from the 
 railway, to meet the interest of the sum expended upon it ; and to 
 jjlace at the disposal of the Imperial Government all the ungranted 
 lands within the province lying in the line of railway, to the extent 
 of ten miles on each side thereof; and to undertake to obtain, pay 
 for, and place at the disposal of the Imperial Government, all the 
 land required within the province for the line of railway proper, 
 stations, and termini." An Act of Parliament was passed upon that 
 resolution being carried (and I believe it was carried unanimously), 
 granting to Her Majesty £20,000 a year if she should undertake 
 the construction of this railway, either by herself or through the 
 instrumentality of a private company. Now, I will not read the 
 other vesolutions which bear upon this subject, but I will merely 
 
 *9 
 
 J. 
 
 / \ 
 
 r 
 
 i 
 
I 
 
 A 
 
 / \ 
 
 T 
 
 advert to them. 'I'lie Novu Scotiti Cicntrul Asscnihly passed u resolu- 
 tion ill idinos-t identical ter^1^* ; at any rate, in identical sense, voting 
 ttlso Crown lands for ten miles on each side of the railway, and 
 £'20,000 a year towards the expenses of the railway ; and hinding 
 itself to purchase and place at the disposal of the coni])any all private 
 lands required for stations, and so on, free of charge. I will not 
 trouble the meeting with the resolutions which were passed at Nova 
 Scotia and New Brunswick, but I may say they were substantially 
 the same as that jwissed by Canada. 
 
 The Canadian resolutions were passed in May, 1849. Tliosc of 
 Nova Scotia in April, 1849, and the New Brunswick resolutions in 
 March, 1849 ; and there was another series of resolutions passed by 
 New Brunswick on the 25th April. 1850, insisting even more 
 strongly on the construction of the work, and even going so far as 
 to say, that if Great Britain wishes to keep up her connection with 
 her North-American provinces and her imperial supremacy over 
 these colonies, the only way to do it is to construct this railroad. 
 They stated in diplomatic language that their political connection 
 with the mother country was not worth very much unless this rail- 
 way were constructed. They felt strongly on the subject, and they 
 saw its political importance in a way which you, living on this side 
 of the Atlantic, can hardly appreciate, but which, no doubt, ray 
 friend Mr. Justice Halliburton will advert to and confirm. Upon 
 the receipt of the re^jort of Major Robinson and the resolutions of 
 Canada, Nova Scotia, and New Brunswick, Lord Grey wrote a des- 
 patch, of which I will venture to quote an extract ; he says, — 
 " Although her Majesty's Government are of opinion that great 
 caution ought to be observed in pletlging the credit of the British 
 Treasury in aid of loans raised by the colonies, tiiey regard the work 
 now in contemplation as being (like the Saint Lawrence Canals) of 
 so much imjjortance to the whole emj)ire as to justify them in recom- 
 mending to Parliament that some assistance should be given towards 
 its construction ; nor is there any mode of affording such assistance 
 which has been hitherto suggested which appears on the whole so 
 little burthensome to the mother country, and, at the same time, 
 of BO much real service to the colonies as that which is now 
 l)roposed." 
 
 The words " that which is now projwsed" refer to a proposal which 
 he notices in the former part of his despatch, that a minimum rate 
 ot interest on the whole amount to be expended in the construction 
 of the railroad should be guaranteed by the British Government. 
 That shows the very high estimation in which Her Majesty's 
 Government at that time held the construction of this railway. I 
 might quote the authority of Lord Cathcart and Lord Elgin, who 
 was the Governor- General of Canada, and many other distinguished 
 statesmen, who have liad political or other connection with the North- 
 American provinces. 1 might adduce their authority to prove that 
 this railroad is absolutely indisi)en;<able. After Lord Grey's txprcs- 
 i!un of opinion .-50010 little linn: wa:- ulluwct! lu clapte, during whicli 
 
 4 
 
time the question of an imperial guarantee was re-opencd and re* 
 discussed. Lord (ircy went out of office, 1 believe, in lH5'i, and 
 tlien Hir John Pakingtoh succeeded to the Colonial Office, and a 
 deputation was sent, I think, from the three provinces, to wait upon 
 him and represent to him the state in which the matter had been 
 left by his predecessor. My friend Mr. Hincks, the Governor of 
 Harbadoes. represented Canada on that occasion, and we all know 
 that he is as good a fellow as ever lived, but he was rather peppery 
 and choleric. I understand that the interview with Sir John Paking- 
 ton terminated in rather an unexpected and stormy manner, and the 
 interests of the colony and of this rsalroad have suffered in consc- 
 (jucnce ; inasmuch as nothing has been done from that day to this, 
 and the matter now remains in the state in which I have endeav oured 
 to sketch it. ... 
 
 I think I have pointed ou.t, as far as it has gone, the condition in 
 which we now are. There is but one thing further to mention. 
 Since the time that Canada offered a guarantee of £20,POO a year, 
 she has incurred debts almost to the full extent of her credit, almost 
 as much as she can expend upon public works, in ihe construction of 
 the Grand Trunk Railway, Upper Canada. I do not know what 
 efJ'act that large expenditure of her money would have if we ask now 
 for the £20,000 a year which she guaranteed then. It is only fair 
 to mention that, but I do not know how it would be regarded ; 
 the subject has not been mooted, and we cannot tell in what way 
 the Government of Canada would look upon the matter : but we 
 know the present sentiments of the Governments of Nova Scotia and 
 New Brunswick. 
 
 I hold in my hand a Toronto paper called, The Toronto Lender, 
 in which is an article headed, " The Intercolonial Railway," which 
 contains the foUo.wing statement : — 
 
 " Resolved— 'That a conference be requested with the Legislative 
 Council, by committee, on the general state of the Province; and 
 that at such conference the Committee of this House request that 
 the Legislative Council will unite with this House in an address to 
 the Queen on the subjrst of the Intercolonial Railroad between 
 Canada, New Brunswick, and Nova Scotia, and inviting the assist- 
 ance of Her Majesty's Government in that great project.' " 
 
 Now I merely quote that to prove that the sentiments of New 
 Brunswick and Nova Scotia remain unchanged upon the subject. 
 A paper has been this moment put into my hands, showing that 
 Caiuda also still feels very greatly interested in it ; perhaps, there- 
 fore, my observation with regard to the possible unwillingness ot 
 Canada still to grant the £20,000 goes fornothing ; it says, " So 
 deeply did Canada feel interested in the project, that during last 
 autumn she sent home the Hon. Mr. MacDonald. attorney-general 
 of Canada West, and Mr. Rose, to co-operate with the Nova Scotia 
 Delegates." So that I suppose Canada remains in the same position 
 as the others I have described. 
 - It now remains for this mcctiuB to decide what course wi!! !h' 
 
' 
 
 .') 
 
 ndoptod. towards sorurinijj for the coiupany. whicli we liopv- ti» rdrm, 
 t\w advaiifngos which I Imvc uu'iitioiutl. It is tor tliis nu'ctiiiit t«i 
 decide whftlier it would not he Hdvi-uhh; that n depntiitiDU shoiilil 
 wait upon the (/'oK)iiial Sccretiiry, uskiiij? him to icc:()i>nizc! tho 
 company iiiteinlcd to he formeil as tk- iu^striimcots ot lU-i Majesty iii 
 cnrryiii;^' out the raihoud, and therel)y securing; to that company the 
 advantages which I have enunienited. The Act of Parliament which 
 was passed hy the liCgishitnre of t'anach\ cui.Miins the followint;- 
 clause : — " He it therefore enacted, that if Her Majesty's (iovernn>ent 
 phall undertake the construction of the said railway, eitlier directly or 
 through the instrumentality of a private company, it shall he lawful 
 for the Governor in Council, on hehalf of the province, to undertake 
 to pay yearly, in proportion as the work advances, a sum, not exceed- 
 ing £20,00() s^terling, towards making good the deficiency (if any)." 
 and so on. If, therefore. Her Majesty's Government are willing to 
 recognize the company, which we hope to t\)rm, as their instruments 
 in carrying out this railway, it will in)mediately place the company 
 in the position of claiming from all these various Ix-gislatures the 
 £-i(),U()0 a year which they have each promised, the crown lands 
 they promised, and the private lands which they intend to buy and 
 place at the disposal of the company. If we could also, in addition, 
 ohtain from the Imperial GoverFunent a guarantee for a minimum 
 rate of interest on the expenditure of the work, such as I-ord Grey, 
 in the despatch I luvve quoted, showed himself ready to give the 
 company, as it a[)pears to me (although that is again trenchiihg 
 uy.on the commercial part of the matter), the coir.par.y would he in 
 rather a prosperous condition, and very well ahle to go forward with 
 its work. 
 
 This meeting, therefore, has to consider, and such a resolution 
 will be proposed to this Meeting, that a deputation be requested to 
 wait upon the Colonial Secretary to ask him to recognize such com- 
 pany as the company to carry out the work. If the Meeting 
 decides upon sending such a d'^putation, I need hardly observe tluit 
 it will be advantageous to select the very strongest names we can 
 influence, so as to send up as good a deputation as we possibly can 
 upon the subject. 
 
 I have already quoted Major Robinson's estimate of the total cost, 
 and on the, 20th page of this pamphlet, which is in everybody's 
 hands, there is a very able summary, based, I have no doubt, on 
 very good authority, of the probable pecuniary advantages which 
 would ensue from the construction of this railway. I leave in 
 other hands the exposition of the probable financial condition and 
 prospects of the company. 
 
 I have ventured, in as few words as I could, to lay before you the 
 political and physicial difficulties and advantages in the way of the 
 construction of this Railway, and i beg to conclude by calling upon 
 the Right Hon. Sotheron Estcourt,' M.P., to move the first 
 resolution. 
 
 The Ri'-'^ht Hon. Sutheho.v Estcourt. M.P, — Mv Lord Bury and 
 
10 
 
 jrpntlempn,— If yon, my lord, \vlu» liavp passed some time in 
 Canada, and are intimately acquainted, both with the country anil 
 all thok-e matters which concern it, have thought it necessary to 
 make some apoloj^y for occujjyinnj the place in which I am very glad 
 to see you. in consequence of there being present in this meeting 
 gentlemen of known character, name, and distinction connected 
 with Canada and Nova Scotia, much more, I am sure, have I need to 
 offer an apology, who know of this magnitioent coifntry only by 
 information, and from what I have read. I came into this loom, 
 my lord, to-dav, not having the least idea that 1 should be expected 
 to take any part in the preceedings. At the same time, since you 
 have been «o good as to desire it, I am not reluctant at all to otter 
 such humble assistance as I can, towards putting our proceeding iu 
 course of operation, which I look upon, in a national point of view, 
 as being of manifest advantage (hear, hear), not only to Canada, 
 and the other parts of America, but also, I must say, to the mother- 
 country itself. (H^-ar, hear.) 
 
 I will just in a tew words say what it is that tirst gave me an 
 interest in this matter. A dear brother of mine, a gallant officer 
 who lost his life in the Crimea, was the officer appointed to the 
 command of an expedition (I hardly know whether I ought to call 
 it l)y that name) ; but, however, he superintended the drawing of 
 that line, which is at this moment the boundary between Canada 
 and the United States. He, of course, had nothing more to do than 
 strictly to follow out the line, according to arrangements which had 
 been entered into between the two countries by authorized and 
 diplomatic agents. Therefore, whatever may be thought concerning 
 the line itself, he was in no way responsible (hear, hear) ; but still, 
 during the two years that he passed there, being in constant com- 
 munication with him, I could not avoid obtaining a much more 
 intimate knowledge of the magnificent prospects which I think 
 surround that country ; that circumstance has always made me feel 
 a particular interest in the matter, and that really is, my lord, the 
 chief reason of my coming here to-day. 
 
 I am not going to trouble this Meeting with offering, from my 
 total absence of experience and my only crude information, any 
 suggestions which I could hope to be of any real value, but I will 
 just say this: it seems to me that, as matters now stanc', there is for 
 lialf a year an absolute separation between the three provinces of 
 New Brunswick, Nova Scotia, and Canada, (Hear, hear.) Now 
 that that is of some importance in times of difficulty, I bear in mind 
 a recollection which I think is a proof. At the time when what was 
 called the rebellion in Canada broke out, I was well acquainted wi h 
 the moveraentvS of the 43rd Regiment. That regiment was stationed 
 on the seaboard of New Brunswick ; it was of the greatest import- 
 ance that all succour that could be atforded should be marched with 
 everv ra»)iditv that was possible to the 'jlaces where onerations were 
 going on in Canada. That regiment made a most magnificent and 
 difficult pas;,>ge through the mid>t of the country, v/hich had 
 
11 
 
 rlail 
 
 scarcely been explored before tliey cut their way through--in !?hort, 
 it WHS one of the most brilliant ojjerations, which is as deserving to 
 be recorded by a historian as the famous expedition of Cyrus, 
 which was .'^^o fortunate as to receive a place in history, and an 
 historian in Xenoj)hon ; it was something that could not fail to 
 make an impression upon a non-military as well as a military mind. 
 I know it did upon mine. They took, if I am not mistaken, pretty 
 nearly the course along which you propose to carry this railway ; 
 they underwent great difficulties ; they could not avoid leaving 
 behind them a great many of those accessories which were, in fact, 
 indispensible to the full development of the power they had to bring 
 to bear upon the scene of action. All that could be done was done 
 in their j)ersonal and individual capacity — they contrived to make 
 their way through the forests. Now, if there had been then such 
 a railway as you are proposing to establish, instead of its being an 
 operation of diliiculty, it would have been one of great facility; in- 
 stead of cutting their way through at a slow rate, which still was 
 very creditable to them, fur they did it at twenty miles a day, they 
 would h;iv3 been wafted within twenty-four hours from Halifax to 
 Quebec, and thus have j)roduced, by the rajjidity of communication, 
 an impression that would have more than doubled any amount of 
 iinj)erial force that might have been brought. 
 
 J\ly lord, with regard to the mode in which this Meeting should 
 j)roceed, I beg to say, and it is hardly necessary for me to do so, 
 that I attend here only as a private individual member of Parliament ; 
 it is not in my power to state anything here on the part of the 
 Government, of which I am a very humble member, and cannot 
 certainly in any way venture to take ujjon myself to say what their 
 views will be ; but having taken part in similar operations before, it 
 seems to me that the course you have delineated is very much the 
 sort of course that it would be prudent for us, as well-wishers of the 
 cause, to adopt, which would be likely to make an impression ; and, 
 really, if there is to be any confidence placed h\ these figures, 1 do 
 not think you will be calling upon the Government to incur any 
 l)rodigious risk. (Hear, hear.) I must say, I think that the cause 
 is one of such great importance, since it would enable us during one- 
 half of the year, during which at present communication is totally 
 intercepted, to establish, by means of a railway, facilities of con- 
 veyance and communication between these three provinces. That in 
 a national point of view you might fairly ask of the Government to 
 make some pecuniary sacrifice, in order to achieve it (hear, hear) ; 
 but it seems to me, also, if these figures have any weight, you luighl 
 go to the Goverinnent and say, you gain this great imperial advantage 
 without any risk at all, (Hear, hear.) 
 
 Now, my lord, I will leave it to those who are far abler than 1 
 am myself to e; ter into the details, and 1 only beg leave to move 
 thi; resolution whicl» has been nut into my hands, in every word of 
 which I must say fur myself 1 not only cordially concur, but 1 cannot 
 doubt lliut cvcrv iiersun who knowt anvlhina of what is likely tu be 
 
 I 
 
12 
 
 hencficiHl to oitr coloniiil interests urid the imjx'rial interests of 
 (treat Britain will be certain to concur. 
 
 Captrtin the Hon. John Vivian, M.P, — My Lord Bury and 
 Gentlemen, — It was only five minutes before I came into this room 
 that I had any knowledge of the Meeting that was about to take 
 ))laee, or its object ; but, however, as I happened to be in Canada 
 at a very interesting period of the fortunes of that colony, I hojie I 
 sliall not be thought intruding if I refer for one moment to the prac- 
 tical advantages that would be derived from such a line of railway 
 us that which is now proposed. My right honourable friend ha« 
 alluded to a circumstance with which I was connected. I happened 
 to have marched with the 43rd Regiment on »;he occasion he referred 
 to. (Hear, hear, and applause.) I was on the staff' of the Governor- 
 (n>nerai, Lord Gosford, at the time when the Canadian rebellion 
 broke out. 'I'he rebels were clever enough to take care that their 
 proceedings should not come to light until after the first snow had 
 lalien, when the roads were thought impracticable : it was unfor- 
 tunately at that time that there was but a comparatively small por- 
 tion of troops in the two Ca.nadas. I think, if I recollect right, two 
 regiments at Quebec and two at Montreal. Sir John Colborne, who 
 was in command of the troo])s, was anxious for the result. The 
 rebels were in great force. Down the whole bank of the St. Law- 
 rence, from Quebec to Montreal and upwards, they were in a state of 
 rebellion, and there were great doubts as to whether the rebellion 
 had not cjjread lower down the banks. Lord Gosford was anxious 
 lor reinforcements, and sent to New Brunswick for the 43rd, and to 
 Halifax for the 83rd, and I was sent down by the Governor- General 
 to feel the pulse of the j)eople on the banks of the St. Lawrence, to 
 see whether there was any risk in the 43rd being stopped in their 
 inarch upwards, and in one or two villages where it was thought 
 there was a strong feeling against them. There was one part in 
 particular, where the road i)assage was excessively narrow, and there 
 was great danger in case the troojjs should be thi.re stojjped ; and, 
 a*i my right honourable friend said, the march of the 43rd was, per- 
 iiajjs, one of the most extraordinary that ever was made by a regiment. 
 For two days they marched in snow-shoes, with relieving men in 
 fVont six abreast, to beat the way for the rest of the regiment ; and 
 much to Uie credit jf the colom 1, be it said, notwithstanding the 
 great ditiiculties they had to contend with, they marched on without 
 leaving «ne (single man behind them. (Hear, hear, and applause.) 
 There was not n misfortune of any kind — there was not a man 
 drunk ui)on the march, and there was not a man left behind on the 
 march ; but the danger and dirticulty that those two regiments had 
 tu contend with were extraordinary, and the length of time that they 
 took to complete the march was of very serious consequence at that 
 moment. Now, if there had been a railway, as my honourable 
 Iritud has stated in a strategical j)oint (j! view, it: would have been of 
 •j;vf'at imiiortanee ; and the only thing that .Mupri.-cs mc is, that, con- 
 ■'idcnijy the Jicc-tttitv ul the (.ummuuitaliuii between tiictt tliret 
 
13 
 
 great countries of Nova S'lotia, New Jirunswick, and Canada, so 
 many years should be permitted to have elapsed since they came 
 into our possession without any suggestion of this sort being brought 
 before the public. (Hear, hear.) 
 
 The Chairman, — It has been moved by the Right Hon. IS. 
 Kstcourt, M.P., and seconded by Capt. the Hon. John Vivian, 
 M.P. :— 
 
 " That the extraordinary advance which has been made 
 within the last few years in the trade and population of the 
 British North Amerian colonies renders it imperatively 
 necessary that Great Britain should no longer be dependent 
 upon the United States for railway commuviication with these 
 important colonies especially, when a cheaper and more 
 expeditious route can be obtained through the British i)Os- 
 sessions. 
 The resolution was i)ut to the meeting and carried unanimously. 
 (Applause). 
 
 The Hon. Sir Allan Napier McNab, Baronet. — My Lord Bury 
 Hud Gentlemen, — I have been requested to move the following 
 resolution. I have great [jleasure in doing so, because, as you may 
 naturally infer, I feel a deep interest in everything connected with 
 the British North-American provinces, and particularly with regard 
 to Canada. So much has been already said, and well said, by the 
 noble chairman and the hon. gentlemen who have preceded me, 
 that very little indeed remains for me to say. I shall not there- 
 fore trespass long ujion your time, but I think I may venture to 
 assure this meeting that, from my connection with Canada for a great 
 many years in different capacities, I am in a position to answer 
 any question that may be put to me with respect to it. The 
 time has certainly arrived when we should no longer be dependent 
 upon a foreign power for access to the ocean at all seasons of the 
 year, and for our communication with the mother country. Tlie 
 jirosperity of Canada, and particularly of Western Canada, tor- 
 meily called Upper Canada, has no parallel on the continent of 
 America. I believe this has been the language of some of the most 
 distinguished statesmen in the neighbouring republic, and in proof 
 of which I would mention the following facts : — 
 
 In 1824, there was but one steamer on Lake Ontario ; we have 
 now not less than fifty large steamers. We had not then a railway, 
 a canal, nor even a macadamized road in the province ; whereas now 
 we have three canals, the Welland canal (connecting Lake Ontario 
 with Lake Erie), the St. Lawrence canal, and the Rideau canal, 
 perfecting the water communication between Kingston and Mon- 
 treal. The last was built by the British government at a cost ot 
 upwards of a million, and, with that national generosity which 
 characterizes this country, was given to the province ; the Welland 
 canal, the importance of which cannot he too highly estimated, was 
 built through the great energy and perseverance of the Hon. Wni. 
 H. Mcrnt, a member uf oui JcgislaUue lur Uic hial iivc-and-twenty 
 
14 
 
 fi f 
 
 years. We Imvc now mcicaclamizcd and plank roads?, and railways 
 in every part of the country : upwards of £-20,000,0()() sterling has 
 been expended upon railways hi that country. The Great Western 
 Kailway, which connects the head of Lake Ontario with the foot 
 ot Lake Huron, is now completed, and may be considered one of the 
 best paying lines on the continent, unless,' indeed, they allow a rival 
 line to be built under the control of other parties, which, now that it 
 i;as been sanctioned by the Government, thev ought to build them- 
 seives. From the termination of the Great Western at Toronto the 
 Grank Trunk is now finished to Quebec. You have, therefore, a 
 perfect communication both by laud and water to Quebec, and what 
 we now require is, that the rail should be continued to Halifax, 
 wliicu will give us at all seasons of the year access to the ocean, 
 without being compelled to go through a foreign country ; and this 
 contemjdated railway will accomjjlish tliat desirable object, and as a 
 consequence, will be a most valuable feeder to the Grand Trunk now 
 constructed to Quebec, 
 
 The people of the colonies have done all that couid be expected 
 of them. The provuue of Canada has given £20.000 a year, and all 
 the land necessary for the railway, and they have also given ten miles 
 on either side of the track. The provinces of New Brunswick and 
 Nova Scotia have done the same, and you learn by the report just 
 read by the Chairman that this railway is estimated to cost about 
 £3,000,000. You will therefore have money suPucient to i)ay the 
 interest on more than one-third of the amount, and a grant of land 
 that will, in my opinion, shortly realize all the money required. 
 You c:.nnot expect the colonies to do mo'-e tlu.n they have done, and 
 surely the Government of this country ought to be prcjiared to give 
 thcin the assistance they require. 
 
 My friend Mr. tunard, who sits on the other side of the table, 
 will tell you that the jjort of Halifax is one of the finest ports in the 
 V Olid, that the communication between Halifax and Quebec will not 
 occupy more than twenty-four hours, and that a laige portion of the 
 land IS goou and will be available after the completion of the rail- 
 way. The exports and imports of Canada alone are now about 
 £20.000,000. 
 
 1 am ha])py in being able to tell this Meeting that a good feeling 
 now exists among all parties in Canada. No doubt we have had great 
 political differences, but by common consent we may consider all the 
 great questions which have agitated the public mind for years past 
 have been settled, and the country is now subsiding into that peace- 
 ful, happy state which I hope may long continue; for 1 believe 
 British America to be one of the brightest jewels in the British 
 crown, and I trust that good feeling and attachment to this country 
 which now exists may ever continue, and my fervent wish is that the 
 British provinces in America may ever remain an integral portion of 
 this noble empire. (Hear. heur. and apjilause.) 
 
 Mil. NiHiKT, M.l'.— My Lord Bury and Genlleincn— 1 ought 
 ))crhaph lu make some apology for picsentiiig uivtclf on this occa- 
 
1 
 
 sion ; l)ut having hcon requcpted to second this* rpsolution, I venture 
 to do so. Local knowledge of Canada I have none; yet, having 
 read this hook, I feel I need not hesitate in ghidly seconding this 
 resolution ; for I see it says, " Quehec, during six months of the 
 year, has no outlet to the sea, heing closed hy ice, and communi- 
 casion witli England, and with the important provinces of Nova 
 Scotia and New Brunswick, is in consequence carried through the 
 United States." This alone shows how very necessary the railway 
 is. But I see it says further, — " The United States has one vast 
 network of railways, extending from the shores of the Atlantic 
 almost to the Uocky Mountains, and Irom the hanks of the Missouri 
 and Mississippi to the shores of the great lakes of the St. I^xwrence. 
 She could in the course of three days concentrate an army on the 
 Canadian frontier ; and, if this should ever occur in the winter, she 
 could lay siege to Quehec without the possibility of our transportin;; 
 troops to its relief." This is quite sufficient to convince me, and I 
 should think everybody else, that the proposed railway is, in a 
 military and j)hysical point of view, of immense importance. I have 
 therefore great pleasure in seconding the resolution, and only wish I 
 could furnish some information on the subject. 
 
 The Chairman. — It has been moved by the Honourable Sir 
 
 Allan McNab, Bart., and seconded by K. P. Nisbet, Esq., M.P. : — 
 
 " That the importance of a line of railway from Halifax to 
 
 Quebec in a national point of view having been repeatedly 
 
 acknowledged by the Imperial Governments and by tlie 
 
 Legislatures of the various colonies through which the 
 
 said line of railway is intended to pass, it is desirable that 
 
 measures be forthwith adopted to carry out the views 
 
 expressed by such high authority." 
 
 Lord GoDERicH. — My Lord Bury and Gentlemen — As I shall be 
 
 obliged to leave this Meeting in a few moments, you will perhaps 
 
 allow me to say one or two words, feeling, as I do, a very deep 
 
 interest in all that concerns the colonies of England. I was very 
 
 happy to avail mysi;lf of your invitation to attend this Meeting 
 
 to-day ; but, as I told you then, and stated to other gentlemen iri 
 
 the room, I came here more as a learner than in any other capacity. 
 
 Before I go I am anxious to state, that all that I have heard has 
 
 convinced ine that the assertions contained in those two resolutions 
 
 that have just been moved and carried are fully borne out, as far as 
 
 I am able to judge of the matter. There can be no doubt of the 
 
 great importance to the colonies, and of the great importance to the 
 
 mother- country, of such a railway as is proposed to be made. For 
 
 my own part, with regard to the other resolutions, I am not a great 
 
 friend in the abstract to Government guarantees or Government 
 
 assistance to Railways. I am always more glad to see undertakings 
 
 of this kind carried out by the unassisted efforts of capitalists. But 
 
 I can understand that a work of this description, which maybe truly 
 
 called a national work, tending to bind together three colonies, and 
 
 to confer great and manifest advantages upon the mother country. 
 
16 
 
 may roqiiire .«omo assistanrc of tliat ilcsciiption. (Hcnr, lioar.) In 
 the present state of my iiifurmation, I do not pledge myself to what 
 is the pro])er course to pur>iue in that respect; but if you determine, 
 as no doubt you will, to have a deputation lo the Colonial Secretary 
 upon the subject, I shall be happy to attend, and to further 
 your endeavours?. I am ordy sorry that I am obliged to go away 
 now. 
 
 The resolution was put to the Meeting, and carried unani- 
 mously. 
 
 The Chaihman. — The Honourable Samuel Cunard will move 
 the third resolution. 
 
 The Hon. S. Cunabd. — My Lord and Gentlemen, I do not think 
 it is necessary for me to say much to you upon the subject, as I 
 think you have pointed out yourselves the proper course to be 
 adopted. I think that a committee should be appointed to wait 
 upon the Government, and I think the Government are fully sensible 
 of the importance of this measure. I have had a great deal to do 
 with it myself. I had managed with Lord Grey at one time to carry 
 it out, and the Government were very mnch disposed to come 
 forward, and to do anything almost that was required, they knowing- 
 the importance of the measure. (Hear, hear.) Anybody who knows 
 Halifax will admit it is one of the tirst harbours in the world, and 
 that a railway there would he a link which would connect together 
 the three provinces of Canada, New Brunswick, and Nova Scotia, 
 and without that connecting link they are completely separated. It 
 is something remarkable that for six months of the year there is no 
 access to Quebec, and neither is there any outlet from Quebec. If 
 you have, in a Government point of view, troops in Halifax, you can 
 send them wherever they are required. If you wish to take them 
 from Canada, you can take them down to Halifax. Last year I had 
 to bring troops from Quebec to Halifax, when they were wanted in 
 the Crimea, and I could not do it for want of proper communication. 
 I want to show the importance of the railway not existing at that 
 time, and what I could have done with it. I pointed out to the 
 Government that they could do with three regiments less in Canada 
 by means of this railway than they could do withovit it. I did not 
 at that time think that they would find it necessary to bring troops 
 from Canada to assist in other parts of the world where we might 
 want them. I think the Government would be glad to aid and 
 assist this as a great national undertaking, and as measure of "ery 
 great importance. I think the Chairman has pointed out that 
 a deputation should wait upon the Government, and I think it would 
 not wait upon them in vain. I think they would not only get the 
 countenance of the Government, but they would get as large an 
 annual sum of money as the provinces are willing to give for the 
 advantages the Government would receive from it. The Government 
 would receive much greater advantages than the provinces by the 
 sum they would give. The Government did propose to allow me a 
 very large sum of money annually, and also to guarantee the pay- 
 
17 
 
 ment of a loan in this country, at a )ow.rate of interest, which we 
 could now get and coidd hiive got at that time ; and the sum tiie 
 provinces were to pay and the sum the (rovernment were to pay.* 
 would meet the interest altogether, so that they could go on and 
 work the railway by that means. (Hear, hear.) 
 
 I do not think it necesaary to occupy more of your time than I 
 have done — it is a great measure and of importance both to the 
 colonies and to the country at large. 
 
 Colonel BoLDERo; M.P. — My lord and gentlemen, I attend here 
 to-day, feeling a strong desire to give any humble assistance I ciiu 
 in carrying oot an undevtaking of such importance as tliis is (Hear, 
 hear) ; and I must confess, although I had a strong feeling when I 
 f'ntered the room, it has been greatly increased by what \ have heard. 
 Now, your lordship's speech and those of the gentlemen who have 
 followed, have made a more powerful impression upon me. as show- 
 ing the necessity of it, than I had when I entered this room. I aiH 
 greatly astonished by the speech of the honourable member (Sir. A. 
 Macnab) at the magnitude of the exports and imports of that 
 country. I was in Halifax myself two or three years, carrying on 
 important works, building forts and barracks for the Government ; 
 and of course I could not exist and mix with the inhabitants of 
 Halifax, witiiout conversing with commercial men and getting some 
 knowledge of what was the nature of your trade with that country. 
 (Hear, hear.) I observe now with the greatest pleasure, not only 
 from what has been^ stated in this room, but what I have seen from 
 public despatches, that your trade increases in proportion far beyond 
 what I thought it would have done in the time. My lord, 1 think 
 you are quite right in recommending the subscribers to this great 
 work to ask for an interview with the Government. I think you 
 are quite right in asking them to give you advantages and 
 privileges the same as they have done to others of their colonies ; 
 and there is a strong reason why they should do it, because the 
 Colonial Parliaments have sanctioned, I think, very extensive sup- 
 port to it. Now, the point which 1ias been prominently put forward 
 is very important, of giving in breadth ten miies on each side of the 
 line in a country well adapted for colonization, and a country well 
 adapted for being the means of large productions of every kind, 
 increasing naturally the trade carrying capital away from this 
 country. It is of the utmost importance to the home Government 
 that they should encourage emigration. I think the encouragement 
 given by British North- American colonies for emigration to the 
 colonies is such as to tempt families perhaps of a very different 
 description to what we have hitherto had. (Hear, hear.) I had 
 no intention of taking a part in the proceedings of this Meeting, 
 and therefore you will excuse anything in which 1 have been remiss ; 
 but I cordially supjwrt this resolution, and look upon it in a com- 
 mercial, political, and military sense, to be an object worthy tii« 
 consideration of her Majesty's Government. (Hear, hear.) 
 • D 
 
IS 
 
 'V\\v. CiiAiitMAN — It liaa been moved by tbe Hon. Samuel ('unard, 
 and seconded by Colonel IJoldero, M.I*. : — 
 
 "That, in the opinion of this meeting, the Halifax and 
 Quebec- Railway will afford a safe and profitable means of 
 investment for a large amount of unemployed capital in the 
 United Kingdom, provided that the Imperial Government 
 be willing to confer upon the subscribers such privileges and 
 advantages as are commensurate with the importance of this 
 great national undertaking, and with the advantages already 
 areoi:ded by the Colonial Governments." 
 'J'he resolution was jjut to the Meeting, and carried unanimously. 
 The Chairman. — The Hon. Charles Fitzwilliam, M. P.,' will now 
 move the fourth resolution. 
 
 The Hon. Charles Fitzwilliam, M.P. — My lord and gentle- 
 men, I am very glad to avail myself of this opportunity of showing 
 what interest I take in everything that concerns her Majesty's 
 dominions in North America, and more particularly am I anxious to 
 do all in my power to further the completion of a communication 
 from Halifax, the most important seaport on the coast of North 
 America, with the more central portions of her dominions, because I 
 think that is only tbe commencing link which will connect the 
 Atlantic Ocean with the Pacific (Hear, hear) — an object which I 
 think every person ought to have in view who wishes to keep her 
 Majesty's dominions in their utmost integrity. On tlie Pacific, we 
 are fortunate enough to possess the most iuiportant harbours on the 
 whole ocean. I think I may safely say that. (Hear, hear.) The 
 harbour of Esquimault on Vancouver's Island is, I believe, the finest in 
 the world ; and along the whole coast, from there to Valparaiso, you 
 will hardly find a safe and convenient harbour. Even the harbour of 
 St. Francisco is so excessively large that it cannot be said to be safe 
 at all times. Great opposition has been made to any communication 
 i)etween the east and west, but I think, from the last report 
 which we have had of the riches of that country, those efforts to 
 frustrate any undertaking to communicate with the two sides of the 
 continent would be futile. 
 
 Besides that, the country througb which I should propose to make 
 a railway from Lake Superior to Puget's Sound, is exceedingly rich 
 as an agricultural country. The knowledge that we have lately had 
 of the enormous discovery of gold on the banks of Thompson's and 
 Frazer's Hiver, will naturally induce people to flock to that country; 
 and in no way would they be better able to arrive at the acquisition 
 of wealth than by some communication between Lake Superior and 
 the west. Of course we shall have to wait some time for that; 
 but I think the commencing link will be this railway from Halifax 
 to Quebec. I have, therefore, the greatest pleasure in proposing 
 this resolution, .or I really think " That it is advisable that appli- 
 cation be forthwith be made to hei Majesty's Government upon the 
 subject of the proposed railway from Halifax to Quebec, with a 
 view to ascertain what encouragement and assistance they are 
 
19 
 
 a 
 are 
 
 prepared to alVitrd to the promoters of the undertaking." 1 think 
 that the completion of such a scheme has hccn delayed too long. 
 
 Mr. Wylo, M.P. — My Lord Bury and gentlemen, I must 
 confess I feel a very great privilege in being allowed to take part in 
 to-day's proceedings; for, although the matter has been before me 
 as a matter of theory for some; time, yet I now think that this great 
 and important project under your lordship's auspices, and by the 
 assistance of gentlemen round the table, will, I have no doubt, be 
 carried to a successful issue, because it seems to me that the Grand 
 Trunk Railway wants a terminus to the sea. Sir Allan Macnab 
 has stated that some portions of the Grand Trunk Railway do not 
 at this moment yield an ample return. Why is it ? Because you 
 are compelled to pass through a portion of the United States, or to 
 use the waters of St. Lawrence, for a portioa of your trade. That 
 river, during a certain portion of the year, is completely closed, and 
 trade is entirely excluded. 
 
 Now, my lord, you want this railway as a terminus upon your 
 sea-board ; and I have watched the observations that have fidleu 
 from the different hon. gentlemen who have addressed your lordship 
 to-day, and I find all havs abstained from pointing out what are the 
 great commercial and paying advantages of this line to Nova Scotia 
 itself. I have some acquaintance with that country, and I know its 
 vast niineral riches, its forests, its mines, both of coal and iron- 
 stone, and other materials, .which, I feel assured, in itself wouM 
 yield a very ample return for the capital, that might be outlaid upon 
 it. (Hear, hear.) Your lordship has spoken of the matter iu 
 a military point of view, which is an important one no doubt ; but I 
 I am a man of peace, and I look upon this railway as perhaps one of 
 the most important links in our communications, not for the purpose 
 of war, but for the purpose of cementing us eternally in the bonds oi 
 peace, not only with Canada, but with the United States ; for what 
 has been our position with the United States? We have been 
 absolutiily dependent for our communications, for a large portion of 
 the year, upon the railway communication with the United States ; 
 but this railway will give us an independent communication, and I 
 have not she slightest doubt will in itself yield a very ample return 
 for the capital 'that will be outlaid upon it. Now, the resolution 
 that 1 am to speak to is, " That it is advisable that an ajjplicatiou 
 be made forthwith to her Majesty's Government." From tiic tenor 
 of the letter of Lord Grey of March 10th, 1851, I think we have a 
 right to go to her Majesty*? Government and ask them to axny out 
 the i)romise mtide by Lord Grey in that letter, for, although the 
 personnel of the Government has changed since that time, yet 1 thmk 
 the policy of her Majesty's present Government should not change. 
 I think that the promise contained in Lord Grey's letter is such, 
 that at this moment if an organization is made to carry out this 
 railway, we have a right to ask the present occupant of the Colonial 
 Office to carry out the terms contained in Lord Grey'ii letter ot the 
 10th of March, IS.') I. 
 
20 • . 
 
 The Honourable S. Cunard.— You will not ii^k in vain. 
 
 Mr. Wyij), M.P. — And 1 have no doubt, as my hon. friend says, 
 we shall not ask in vain. The communication between this country 
 and Canada has not l)een so extensively developed to the extent it 
 ought to have been. When this line is completed it will not only o ,'en 
 the whole Canadian communication, but you will be enabled to pay 
 interest at no very far distarc jjcriod from the return which will be 
 made for the t)ullaid capital, not only by the Government j^rants, but 
 by the working of the railway itself; and you will so far extend 
 your railway system to the ports of New Brunswick and Nova 
 Scotia, that your port at Halifax will not simply be a port for the 
 Canadian j)roduce, but will be the port for the vast Atlantic sea-board 
 also ; and all those who have studied the subject will kno-w the vast 
 and important trade that will be carried on with the Pacific throut^h 
 that line, which can be constructed very cheaply and economically; 
 and then we shall have a link of communication from Lake Superior 
 to the Pk ific, and that day is not very far distant. (Hear, hear.) 
 The ])resent advaiitagcs offered to this railway are an ample 
 compensation fur the capital required, looking at it, not only 
 in a military, but in a commercial point of view. I speak to 
 the commercial point of view particularly, and any assistance that I can 
 render your lordship, I shall be most happy to place at your disposal; 
 und I believe we shall only have to ask Government in order to get 
 ihtir consent. 
 
 The Chairman. — It has been moved by the Honourable Charles 
 Fitzwilliam, M.P., and seconded by Mr. Wyld, M.P. 
 
 " 'I'hat it is ativisable that application be forthwith made 
 to her Majesty':^ Government upon the subject of the pro- 
 ]josed Railway from Halifax to Quebec, with a view to ascer- 
 tain what arrangement and assistance they are prepared to 
 afford to the promoters of the undertaking." 
 
 The Resolution was put to the Meeting and carried unanimously. 
 
 The Chairman. — I shall have now to call upon the Hon. Justice 
 Haliburton to move the 5th Resolution. 
 
 The Hon. Justice Haliburton. — My lords and gentlemen, I was 
 not aware until I entered this room what the precise object of the 
 Meeting was, or that I should be called upon to take any part in it ; 
 ar,d I regret that the more, because as I have spoken and written 
 more frequently ui)on the subject of the colonial communications 
 thin most men, I liave committee' to paper at various times certain 
 facts, which, if 1 had known that I should have addressed you, I 
 should have been glad to have put into a condensed form and laid 
 bcfoic this Meeting. (Hear, hear.) " But he who trusts to paper 
 generally injures his mem9ry," and therefore I cannot call figures 
 to mind just at this moment ; but I will mention one or two cir- 
 "umstaiK.-es which will show you the importance of this ol)ject, as 
 well a;, uhc ur two historical facts connected with it. 
 
 In the iHr!>t place we arc totally dependent upon the United 
 Stalt> for t'le tranbmistiun of the Kn"lith mails to Canada ; we 
 
21 
 
 have tu carry thctn by the luagniticciit line uH ^tcumcrs of Mr. 
 funard, either to Boston, and then t^end them up to the province 
 of Caijuda, or by that ctjually magnificent line of h\» to New York, 
 and send them thence to Canada, through the States. (Applause.) 
 Now, those who have as much knowledge of the Americans as I 
 have, I believe will be constrained to say that they are either not able 
 to carry out their treaties, or that they are not willing to do so ; but 
 whether they carry them out or whether tht;y fail to do so, it i» 
 always accompanied with very great impertinence and insolence. 
 (Laughter.) Now, in tlie present postal arrangement between 
 this country and the United States there is a clause, granting per- 
 mission for the mails to travel through their country, and a very large 
 sum of money is paid for it. But tliut nrrangeaaeut is terminable at 
 a very short notice. 1 think it is a month or six weeks, and the 
 consequence of that clause is, that when the CoUins's line was put 
 on, they wanted to have all tlie English lettp's sent by their ships, 
 and when the demand was refused, notice v as given to terminate 
 the treaty, which caused the greatest confu ion and alarm to tlie 
 mercantile world ; for you could not get a letter except through the 
 United States without infinite delay. Now I have lived I will not 
 say the greater part of my life, but all my life in Nova Scotia, and 
 am a native of the country. Quebec is practically as far distant to 
 me, and infinitely more difficult to get at, than Dresden is from here. 
 (Hear, hear.) I can go to Dresden W'th a good deal more comfort 
 and a vast deal more ease than I can go from Halifax to Quebec, and 
 I believe a great deal cheaper. I have got, in the first place, to ship 
 on board one of Mr. Cunard's vessels and to go to Boston, and 
 perhaps 1 have to wait a fortnight for the arrival of his steamer. 
 Then I have to go through that very conciliatory country and polite 
 people, the Yankees, until I can get up to the border, and then I 
 have to go to such a jjoint in Canada as I want to go to. You heard 
 about those troops, that were sent to Canada from Halifax in the 
 winter. I recollect it well, for 1 was riding on horseback on the 
 Halifax road at the time these men were coming up. It was in 
 the month of December — the month of December at Halifax and 
 the montli of December at Quebec are two very different things. It 
 is something like the Polar Sea at Quebec; it is very cold at Halifax, 
 but God knows how much colder it is at Quebec — it would take the 
 hair off a man's head. The march of those troops was, even by. the 
 people of that country, who understand the use of the snow-shoes 
 and all that sort of thing, thought a most marvellous undertaking. 
 
 Mr. CuNARD. — It was. 
 
 The Honourable Justice Hahburton. — And it was thought a 
 most marvellous undertaking, even by the colonists themselves, and 
 I believe the commissariat officer's name was Inglis, who was a 
 colonist, and therefore had a knowledge of these modes of conveying 
 troops \vhich an English commisi-ariut officer would not havV. He 
 wa.s a host in himself; and there would have been very different work 
 in the Crimea if he had lived to have gone there. The St. Lawicnce 
 
22 
 
 iH closed for a great part of tlie year, and a road through the 
 wilderness does not exist. To send or withdraw troops at all 
 times, to forward warlike stores or militia to assailed or assailable 
 jjoints, is of the first importance — where means of transport exist to 
 the sea, the military force may be reduced greatly, in eleven days 
 troops can reach Canada from England — weakness invites attack. 
 Now, Halifax is situate at the nearest point to England in America. 
 Most of you, gentlemen, have been there. It is the most magn. ' ^ent 
 harbour in the world. It is not only one harbour, but it is a double 
 harbour. After you go up about ten miies of magniticent harbour, 
 you pass through n small narrow passage of about 1,100 to 1,2()<> 
 feet — perhaps not so much — and then you get up to Bedford 
 Harbour, which is the bcgt, If there can be two bests. 
 
 Mr. CuNARD. — Halifax is the best, and the other is the better. 
 
 The Honourable Justice Haliburton. — That is, that Halifax is a 
 double first. It is an extraordinary fact, and difficult to account for, 
 that the harbour of Halifax is only once in many years frozen over, 
 and the further south you go upon that continent the oftener the 
 harbours are frozen over. For instance, if you go further south to 
 Boston, it is twice as often frozen over as Halifax. 
 
 Mr. CuNARD. — I have been twenty years with steamers, and have 
 not been kept out of Halifax once, but I have out of Boston many 
 times. 
 
 The Honourable Justice Haliburton. — During the winter, a 
 few years ago, there were a hundred vessels frozen up in 
 Charleston, South Carolina, and had to stop there six weeks at a 
 time; but that does not often occur. If you go north of Halifax, 
 then it is entirely closed. But I have no doubt that the magnificent 
 harbour of Halifax was intended for this railway. 
 
 Mr. Cunard. — Nothing happens by accident. 
 
 The Honourable Justice Haliburton. — No doubt Providence 
 intended this, for this particular object. (A laugh.) 
 
 Now, I will just mention one thing that has been omitted. When 
 it was first started, it was considered a monstrous undertaking and 
 alarmed everybody, because you were to begin at Halifax and run to 
 Quebec. But the distance is lessened at both ends now. Nova 
 Scotia has already made its laihvay from Halifax very near 'o f!ie 
 New Brunswick border. Canada has done the same thing; it has 
 run down the St. Lawrence as far as Trois Pistoles, and I believe 
 is willing to do what lies within its own border ; but there is a large 
 piece of vacant ground between Nova Scotia and Canada, lying in 
 New Brunswick. They have not anybody who seems to take any 
 interest in that which is the key to the whole. When you come 
 to consider with reference to this particular resolution that you are 
 at the mercy of the Americans for your postal communication ; 
 that you have not a road from these Lower Provinces, that they are 
 totally detached, that they are unconnected, that there are five sets 
 of laws in cou!«c(jucncc of their being in that way, that there is no 
 •general public feeling got up amongst thcm> it is manifestly an object 
 
 4 
 
•23 
 
 ot" tlio first importaiicf to tmitc tliim. 1 think the Oovernment ought 
 to tttki' into consideration nnotlier view, which is. timt in nil the pos- 
 scssiona of England in the wide world (where the sun never sets upon 
 Iter possessiouj*) and especially on the American continent, if there 
 lire loyal subjects it is in IJritish North America, and they have 
 lately given a proof of it (Hear, hear), for a regiment has been 
 formed, and it is not only now offered, but it has been offered 
 and rather superciliously rejected on one or two occasions before, 
 hut at this time they could not well refuse it, because they could 
 not do without it, and if the regiment loes not give a good 
 account of itself, I shall be greatly mistaken. They sent (leneral 
 Inglis to defend Lucknow and General Williams to defend Kars, ard 
 also sent the Admiral who brought the Yankee Chesapeake into 
 Halifax (laughter), who was also a native of our country ; and it 
 sent to the Redan some of the very first victims who fell there. 
 Therefore, I think, in considering this :— itis a truly English posses- 
 sion — that it is larger than all Europe — it is connected with the 
 East, and it is r^ importance in every way, I should certainly think 
 it a very extraordinary thing if the Government does not, at all 
 events, give a guarantee. Jiritish America is the only possession 
 we have where the climate suits European constitutions; in thin 
 respect it is far before the States, as is evinced in the health, vigour, 
 and stature of the population. 
 
 Now, as to the pledge given by Lord Grey there has been some 
 dispute, which I do not enter into now. I do not know who is 
 right or who is wrong. One of the del^t^ites who came from the 
 colonies, asserts that a guarantee was given, which I lielieveis denied 
 on the other side, but if that guarantee at that time had been given, 
 this railway would have been made, because the money then could 
 have been borrowed upon an imperial guarantee at 3^ per cent., 
 when it could not be from a provincial government at 6 per cent. ; 
 therefore it makes a difference of one half of the expense of the 
 whole undertaking, and an important measure that is unquestionably. 
 
 Now, I will just look at the map for one moment. Part of the 
 Nova Scotia Railway is finished, Canada is completing one to Trois 
 Pistoles ; it is only that part through New Brunswick now required, 
 and New Brunswick is very anxious to go on with it. I may state 
 that there have been some negotiations which have not been men- 
 tioned here. Lately there were delegates from Canada here, from 
 New Brunswick, and from Nova Scotia, who had an interview with 
 the Right Honourable Mr. Labouchere. What the result of 
 that was I du not know. I look upon everything connected with 
 the Colonial Office with such utter despair and hopelessness, 
 that I am really quite discouraged. I hardly read, talk, or have any 
 intercourse with anybody about the subject, when you have got such 
 sleepy officials in Downing Street, — when they get men in that 
 office, nut one of whom ever saw a colony, and one of whom spelt it 
 oven with two n's. Happily, at the same time, there is a change 
 coming oveV the legislature. People are obliged to be civil in these 
 
•1 
 
 24 
 
 f v.„„p of fiovernmentp, and they are uncommonly polite to 
 
 speeches ^0:^^; ^"^^ ».^^^ ^ > /j^^.^^ ,,ho think with me that 
 satu^faction m act^ngjith tl^^^^^^ . ^^ ^^^ .^^^^^^ advantage to 
 
 the carrymg 7^ "J^^^^JX? great satisfaction in seconding tins 
 the cobny. I ^^^^^^^^^^ 4,, ^^de of bringing this before the 
 resolution. I ^''^i^^/';''' j" )utation should wait cm the Colonial 
 ^::;^t:^^^^^'i^^ him. and then we shall proceed 
 
 '" ^:^:Z..-lt has been moved by tl.e Honourable Justice 
 Halliburtou,^n^.ec^nded^b^^^^^^^^^^ and gentlemen, 
 
 together with such others as may wish to -"^e them agree 
 to form a demitation for the purpose of apply- g to her 
 Ma e t^'s Government upon the subject of the proposed 
 Say from Halifax to Quebec, and that the Chauman be 
 reSed to ascertain when her Majesty's Secretary of 
 Statelor the Colonies will be prepared to receive the depu- 
 tation and to communicate tiie result to them. 
 
 a deputation; bu. t'.ere^;^ , Meeting how these noblemen 
 :Srr ar;«e:;"ed\r"he Sa^n, .0 get thei. „a.e, 
 
 ,,„„.» .he Chalan and .uch gentlemen a, may a.s„t Inm u, 
 
 ■^Trclir.-^fr; ..te tut Lord 0;,^-'=., MP^, *e 
 .T^^ l,.h.i Vivian. M.P.: Mr. Headlam. M.P. ^IJ: ^T ^^ 
 r f.n Glvn' MP'- Mr. Ackroyd, M.F. ; Mr. Collins, M.P. ; Mr. 
 "Girn;y M:P; M. Terrell. Mr. Cummins, and Mr. 
 
alite to 
 answer 
 
 ition. 
 
 ''etain 
 
 .vince 
 rtaking. 
 in this 
 lition of 
 om the 
 greatest 
 me that 
 ntage to 
 ling this 
 efore the 
 Colonial 
 , proceed 
 
 e Justice 
 
 ;ntlemen, 
 !m, agree 
 g to her 
 proposed 
 lirman be 
 ;retary of 
 the depu- 
 
 imously. 
 , perhap?, 
 ji internal 
 1 the head 
 ;\v York, 
 n, "That 
 id to form 
 lemen and 
 J noblemen 
 leman will 
 )me of the 
 heir names 
 
 ;elcgate the 
 sist him in 
 
 MP. ; the 
 iw George 
 
 Ivi.P, ; Mr. 
 ?. and Mr. 
 
 25 
 
 Schneider, M.P., signify their concurrence in the objects of the 
 Meeting, and are willing to form part of the deputation. 
 
 Mr. Wyld, M.P. — We had better add our own names who are 
 present. 
 
 The Chairman. — Yes; and perhaps it might be as well to men- 
 tion that in all probability the Company will be registered under the 
 Limited Liability Act before we proceed with the deputation to the 
 Colonial Secretary ; because, when we wait upon the Colonial Sec- 
 retary, he will very naturally say. " Gentlemen, whom am I dealing 
 with? Am I to put you in possession of a large sum, and a 
 quantity of Crown land— whom am I to give it to?" If we could 
 go to him, and say, " Here are seven gentlemen (I believe under the 
 Limited Linbility Act seven gentlemen may register themselves into 
 an association) ; these are the persons you are to deal with ;" if those 
 gentlemen carried great weight with their names and distinction, 
 independently of others, no doubt the Colonial Secretary would be 
 perfectly ready to listen to what we had to say, and so any gentle- 
 men who wishes to put down his name now can do so. 
 
 The Honourable S. Cunard.— My Lord— I think when you go to 
 the Colonial Minister you will find he will be disposed to listen to 
 anything you propose in this tangible form. It is upon the plan 
 I sugge'sted to the Government, and which they were willing to 
 adopt ; we should be enabled to get a guarantee upon the best terms, 
 because the money from the colonies was to be paid here ; we had 
 nothing to do witli the colonies, and I propose that we should have 
 nothing to do with the colonies ; that the £20,000 from each of the 
 colonies should be paid to the British Government. These sums 
 together will be quite sufficient to pay the interest on the guarantee 
 of the Government, therefore you could not lose anything. The 
 first question Lord Grev asked me was, " What do you mean to do 
 for the Government r" "l said, '^ Do ! I will soon tell you what 1 will 
 do " I said " I will save you three regiments. Canada will do with 
 three regiments less, havmg them brought as you want. I am 
 perfectly willing," I said, "to carry your troops up free." They were 
 willing to give me a certain consideration, and therefore the sum 
 from the three colonies and the Government will be sufficient to 
 meef the interest of the whole sum to be expended on this railway. 
 Therefore everybody who comes forward to subscribe will be sure to 
 get their interest. There will be interest paid to all the subscribers, 
 so that anything that you get beyond that will be profit. 
 
 Mr. Wyld. M.P.-^Was this a late conversation, or some time 
 
 ago? 
 
 The Hon. S. Cunahd.— It took place only a few years ago. It 
 was so far arranged that they were anxious to do it. 
 
 Mr. Wyld, M.P.— Do you think they still remain of the same 
 opinion. . 
 
 The Hon. S. Ccnard.— I am sure they do. I know the present 
 head of the Colonial Office was of that opinion, and I am sure they 
 will carry it out. How I came to give it up was, that some person 
 
 E 
 
26 
 
 came home which interrupted it. This was a plan of my own. All 
 this took place before Colonel Robinson revived it. This gentleman 
 was an old acquaintance of mine; he was commanding at Ports- 
 mouth, and he took great pleasure in j)ointing out to me that t ere 
 were no great engineering diffculties in the way. That was one 
 important thing I got done. I had got everything arranged so far 
 that when Parliament adjourned on the 12th of August, 1 asked 
 Lord Grey to write a letter to the different Colonial Governments, 
 to ask them to confer special assistanci to carry this out, and I was 
 going to cfirry out an Act, framed by the Attorney-General here, to 
 be in conformity with those of the different provinces, and Lord 
 Grey said it was a very good thing, and they were wishing it was 
 done; and he said althougli he was willing to accede to it, yet he was 
 going further than he thought he was justified. Soon after a 
 delegate came home from the provinces, who was duly authorized by 
 the Provincial Government to carry on the Nova Scotia road, and I 
 was very glad to back it. That delegate and Lord Grej' had a 
 quarrel. Afterwards they made up their quarrel, and then they had 
 a quarrel again. That was just the way it stood ; otherwise, if I 
 had remained and felt anxious to carry it out, I am quite sure long 
 before this the railroad would have been completed. I am sure you 
 will get fi'om the Government and the diflferent provinces quite suffi- 
 cient to pay the whole interest. 
 
 Mr. Roche. — My Lord Bury and Gentlemen, — You will perhaps 
 allow me to mention one circumstance which came under my obser- 
 vation, which shows in a very remarkable manner the impolicy of 
 allowing our communications with the Atlantic to be dependent upon 
 a foreign power. During the late war, and at one of the most critical 
 periods of that war, the British Government were desirous of re- 
 moving from Quebec to Halifax the Ifirge munitions that they had 
 in store ; and a question was put to the law officers of the Crown of 
 this country, if the munitions were carried along the railway from 
 Quebec to Portland to be embarked, it could be done without giving 
 offence to the United States. The law officers of the Crown having 
 pending before them the question of the Foreign Enlistment, gave 
 it as their opinion that it would be a violation of the international 
 law of the United States ; that we should get into another compli- 
 cation ; and the consequence was, that these stores were carried, in 
 the depth of winter, on sledges, to Halifax, and shipped to the 
 Crimea. This is a circumstance showing the grounds on which 
 we should not be dependent upon a foreign power. (Hear, hear.) 
 
 It was moved by the Hon. Sir Allan McNab, and seconded by 
 the Hon. Charles Fitzwilliam, M.P., " that the Chairman do vacate 
 the chair," which was carried unanimously. 
 
 The honourable MR. CUNAIID ix the Chair. 
 
 Mr. Neelo, M.P. — Mr. Chairman and Gentlemen, — I have the 
 honour of asking you to record with me a vote of thanks to the 
 noble lord who has occupied the chair with such great ability, and 
 
 J 
 
27 
 
 who lias with so much clearness expressed the views of this Meeting, 
 ;ind shown us the advantage which is likely to accrue from the 
 project which we are assembled here to-dayto form. I am quite sure all 
 the gentlemen who have heard that noble lord perform the duties of 
 that chair will agree with me that he has placed the whole of our 
 in-oceediiigs with extreme lucidity before us. I have the greatest 
 satisfaction, and I ask you to join with me in thanking that noble 
 lord for the office that he has undertaken, and for performing its 
 duties so admirably. (Applause.) 
 
 The Hon. Charles Fitzwilliam, M.P. — I beg leave to second 
 the proposition, and likewise to express my great satisfaction at the 
 manner in which Lord Bury has presided at this Meeting. (Hear, 
 hear.) 
 
 Carried unanimously. 
 
 Lord Bury. — Gentlemen, I am much obliged to you for your 
 vote of thanl:s for my conduct in the chair. There is one thing 
 that you will allow me to make an observation upon before we 
 separate ; it is this, that I think we had better arrange to hold a 
 further Meeting when the time shall arrive for the Colonial Secretary 
 to receive the deputation that has been decided upon, in order that 
 we may know exactly what we are to say to the Colonial Secretary, 
 so that the Meeting may put the deputation in the possession of the 
 exact opinion that they entertain previous to their interview with 
 the Colonial Secretary. 
 
 The Hon. Sir Allan McNab. — Will it be necessary to put that 
 upon our proceedings ? The Chairman will see the Colonial 
 Secretary, and will after that communicate with Mr. Masterman, 
 who will give notice to all the parties to attend here. 
 
 Lord Bury. — We must either adjourn this Meeting, or else 
 appoint another. 
 
 The Hon. Sir Allan McNab.— Anything you please. Then let 
 us adjourn this Meeting. 
 
 Lord Bury.— I beg leave to move that this Meeting be adjourned 
 till we find out when the Colonial Secretary will receive the deputa- 
 tion. 
 
 Mr. Masterman. — Notice will be sent round to every person. 
 
 Adjourned,