\ ^;^,^- % \^ ^ IMAGE EVALUATION TEST TARGET (MT-S) 1.0 I.I IL25 II 1.4 LilM Bii |22 lilt 1.6 m m lU £ ■!£ 12.0 Kiotograiiiic Sciences Corporation 23 WIS? MAIN STRUT WIBSTIR.N.Y. V:'f(i ( 71* ) 172-4503 m \ <^ ^ 1/2 CIHM/ICMH Microfiche Series. CIHM/iCiVIH Collection de microfiches. Canadian Instituta for Hiatorical Microraproductiona / Inatitut Canadian da microraproductiona hiatoriquaa Tachnieal and BibiiograpMo Not«s/Not«s techniques at MbliographiquM Tha Instituta has sttamptad to obtain tlia bast original copy avaiiabia for filming. Faaturaa of this copy which may ba biMlographically uniqua. which may altar any of tha imagao in tha raproduction. or which may significantly ctianga tha usual mathod of filming, ara ohackad balow. □ Colourad covers/ Couvartura da coulour pn Covers damaged/ D D a n n Couverture endommagAe Covers restored and/or laminated/ Couverture restaurie et/ou pellicul4e r~~l Cover title ntiasing/ La titre de couverture manque □ Coloured mapa/ Cartea g^ographiquas en couleur Coloured ink (i.e. other than blue or black)/ Encre de couleur (i.e. autre que bleue ou noire) r~~| Coloured platea and/or illustrations/ Planchea et/ou INuatrations mn couleur Bound with other materiel/ Relii avac d'autras documents Tight binding may cause shadows or distortion along interior margin/ Lareliure serrie peut causer de I'ombre ou de la diatorskm !• kNig de la marge kitirieure Blank laavaa added during restoration may appeer within tha tavt. Whenever possible, these have been omitted from filming/ II so peut que certainee pagea blanctias a|outies ton d'une reetauration appar a l ss e m dans la texte. mala, lorsque cela 4tait possible, ces pages n'ont pes *ti filmAes. Additional comments:/ Commentaires supptonrjentairas; L'Institut a microfilm* la meilleur exemplaira qu'il lui e Ati poasibia de se procurer. Les ditails de cet exemplaira qui sent paut-Atre uniques du poim de vue bibliographique. qui peuvant modifier une imege reproduite. ou qui peuvent exi^er une modification dana ia mAthode normele dn filmaga sont indiquis ci-dessous. D Th to Coloured pages/ Pagee de couleur □ Pages damaged/ Pagea andommegies □ Pages restored end/or Ismineted/ Pages restaurtas et/ou peiliculAes 0Peges discoloured, stained or foxed/ Peges dAcolories, tacheties ou piquies □ Peges detached/ Pages ditachAes 0Showthrough/ Transparence D Th po of fill Or be th sic ot fir sic or Trensparence Quality of print varies/ Qualiti inAgala de I'impression P rn Includes supplementery meteriel/ Comprend du matiriai suppMmentaira Only edition available/ Seule Mition disponible Th sl« Til wt Ml dif mw bei rig rec m« Pages wholly or pertially obscured by errata slips, tissues, etc.. heve been refilmed to ensure the best possible imege/ Les peges totalement ou partiellement obscurcies per un feuiilet d'errata. une peiure, etc.. ont 4ti filmies i nouveau da fapon k obtenir ia meilleure image possible. This item is filmed at tha reduction ratio checked below/ Ce document est film* au taux de rMuction indiqu* ci>dessous 10X 14X ItX 22X 28X 30X 1 ) i y 12X ItX aox MX 2SX }2X Ills lu Jifiar age Th« copy filmed h«r« ha* bMn rtproducad thanks to the o«n«rosity of: Library of the Public Arcltivaa of Canada Tha imagaa appearing hara ara tha baat quality poaaibia conaidaring tha condition and iagib^Htv of tha original copy and In kaaping with tha filming contract apacificationa. Original copiaa in printad papar covara ara f ilmad beginning with tha front eovar and anding on tha iaat paga with a printad or illuatratad impraa- aion, or tha back covar whan appropriate. All other original copies ere filmed beginning on the firat page with a printed or illuatrated impree- aion, and ending on the Iaat page with a printed or illuatrated impreaaion. The leat recorded frame on eech microfiche ahall contain the symbol -^ (meening "CON- TINUED"), or the symbol V (meaning "END"), whichever applies. L'exemplaire fllmA fut reproduH grice A la ginirositi da: iua bibiiothAqua das Archives publiques du Cenada Les Imagee suhrantee ont 4t« reproduites evec le plus grand soin, compta tenu de la condition at da la nettet* de I'exempiaire film*, et en conformity evee les conditions du contrst de fllmaga. Les exemplalres originaux dont le couverture en pepier eet Imprimte sont fllmte en commenpent per le premier plet et en terminaht soit par la dernMre pege qui comporte une empreinte dimpreesion ou d'illustration, soit par le second pkit, selon le ces. Tous les autres exempleires origineux sont fllmte en eommen^ent per le premMre pege qui comporte une empreinte dimpreesion ou d'illustretion et en terminant |Mir le dernlAre page qui comporte une telle empreinte. Un dee symboles suh/ents epperattra sur la darnlAre Imege de cheque microfiche, selon le ces: le symbols — »- signifie "A 8UIVRE". le symbols y signifie "FIN". Maps, plates, cherts, stc, mey be filmed et different reduction retios. Those too lerge to be entirely included in one exposure are filmed beginning in the upper left hend comer, left to right and top to bottom, as many frames es required. The following diegrems iiiustrete the method: Les certes, plenches, tebleeux, etc., peuvent Atre filmie i des taux de rMuction diffArentt. Lorsque le document est trop grend pour Atre reproduit en un seul clichA, 11 est filmi i pertir de Tanghi supAriaur gauche, de geuche 6 droKe, et de haut en bee, en prenent le nombre d'images nAcessaira. Les diegremmes suivents illustrent le mAthode. ita iura. ] tx 1 2 3 1 2 3 4 6 6 11'^ '■•?- ■MPMavniN^iippvai* Ji»*P!* S T A T E M E N T OP THE SEIZURE OF THE BY 9 ON THE Sth JUNE, 1812. 13 DAYS BEFORE THE LATE WAR WITH THE UNITED STATES HAMILTON: JOURNAL AND EXPRESS OFFICE 1841. r-' .'. . ~i--f*i, . • 1 4, "* ■ V»» li ^1 1 1; mtmmmm^^m mmmm STATEMENT, &.C.- 1 I -■5 To Ills Excellency II. S. Fox, Her Majesty's Mnisler at Washington. We3T Flamboro', 2lst Maj^j 1839. MAY IT PLEASE YOUR EXCELLENCY,— On the 27th of April last, I had the honor of submUlinj to your EKcellenc}-, through the kindness ol His Excellency Sir George Arthur, Lieut. Governor of this Province, a summary respecting the seizure by an United States Vessel of War of a Schooner belonging to myself and my late brother William, now deceased, Hr\med the "Lord jyelson,'^ so long ago as the year 1812, a short time before the declaration of War, which will make manifest to Your Excellency that gieat and aggravated injustice has beer, done us, and that although we have never ceased to urge our claim, yet we remain unindenmitied to this day. Finding myself to be as near receiving justice in this matter now as we were 27 years ago, and feeling the utter impossibility of any individual compelling on Independent Government to listen to his claim, I directed the papers connected with it to be sent to me, intending to lay them before the Legislature of this Pro- vince, at its last Session, in the hope that they would respectfully represent our case to Her Majesty's Government in England, and through its means be remu- nerated for a loss which no circumstance connected with it can palliate, and which on the part of the U. S. has no excuse, as in all cases when vessels o( its citizens were seized by foreign Governments they gave them no rest till their loss was made up, and for which very laige sums of money had been received, as well from France, as from other Countries. Unfortunately these papers did not reach me till the very close of (he Session of the Provincial Parliament, and after I had phced in our excellent Lieut. Go- vernor's hands the summary mentioned above; they were therefore of no use to me,and 1 now beg leave to transmit them toYour Excellency,not doubting but that upon a perucal of them y^ur Excellency will be of opinion with mo, that we h;tve, to say the least of it, been hardly dealt with. During the Session ol" the Provincial Parliament just closed, an address was carried unanimously in the Logislative Co mcil, representing to Her Majesty the heavy losses sustained by (he Inhabitants of this Province during the late incursions from the U. S. more particularly the burning of the Sir Ilobert Peel steam boat, in which address the '• Lord Nelson," was also mentioned — and although no doubt is entertained that Her Majesty's Go- vernment will warnjiy espouse (he cause of Her loyal subjects in this Province, yet I presume to address myself to Your Excellency, as being at (he seat of Gov'nt. you will be better able, than (hey are in England, to inform yourself of the circum* stances of our case and in (he hope that if your Excellency is thereby impressed with the sane sense of injustice towards us, that I feel Your Excellency will use ■^ "^ w- (4) - • your best endeavours with the U. S. Government to cous^ immediate and ample justice being done. „ „ „ 1 have the Honor to be Your Excellency n Most obedient artd most humble servant, J. CROOKS. His Excellency HENRY S, EOX, Her Majesty's Minister Washington. COPY. ■1 Toronto, 17lh December, 183J^^ SIR: Towards the close ol the last Session of the Proviiicial Parliament, His Ex- cellency the Lieut. Governor did me the favor to address Her Majesty's Minister at Washington, in regard to a claim I have upon the American Government, for the value of a vessel called the Lord Nelson, owned by myself and a brother now de- ceased, and seized by an armed vessel of the United States, a few days before the declaration of War in 1812, upon Lake Ontario, but it appears by a conver- sation With Mr. Fox by my son, who repaired to Washington late in the past month, on his way to England, that he (Mr. Fox,) had never received His Ex- cellency's communication, or had forgotten if. Since the Peace of 1815, I have never ceased to prosecute my claim, and at last obtained the judgment of the United States Court, having jurisdiction of such cases, in my favor, but it wns then discovered that the Clerk of the said Court had absconded with this and other monies, so that the amount remains to this day unpaid. At the Session of Congress before the bst a Bill passed the House of Repre- sentatives providing for the payment of my claim — also the committee on claims of the Senate, but at the close of the Session it was lost in the Senate by a ma« jorily of five. It is unnecessary to trouble his Excellency the Governor General with the details of this matter, knowing ns I do the multiplicity of public busiiiess which en- gages his attention, nor would 1 have obtruded myself upon his Excellency's atten^ tion at this time were it not that my Agent ut Washington is again pressing this claim before Congress, and were His Excellency fo bring it under the notice of Mr. Fox, who is in possession of all the documents, I do hope that justice will at last be done me : The loss now amounts to 4 or X5000. I do not mean that the ambassador should at present be rejjuested to interfere ofhcially, hoping as I do that his influence with the Executive Government of the United States, who have always thought favorably of the claim, wii! accomplish the 4esired result. If, how- ever, I am disappointed in this, the time will have come to claim the interference of Her Majesty's Government in protecting its subjects against Foreign aggres- sion in their lawful dealings ; for it must be evident that no individual, however strong his case, (and that this is one than which none can be stionger) can compel a Foreign Government to do him justice, is too evident to require any argument in support of it. I beg further to state, that at the last Session of the Legislature of this Province,, this matter formed part of an address to Her Majesty from the Legislative Council^ passed 25th April last. I have the Honor to be, Sir, jour most obedient humble Servant, (Signed) J. CROOKS.. t. W. CLINTON MURDOCH, Esq., Chief Secretary to His Excellency the Governor General. ^^w (5) Toronto, 26lh December, ISyu. SIR: I am commanded by the Governor General to acknowledge the receipt of your letter of the 17th instant, and to inform you in reply that His Excellency has communicated with Her Majesty's Minister at Wnshington, relative to your claim to indemnity on account of the seizure of the "Lord Nelson," in 1812. His Ex- cellency will apprize you of any inforn)ation on the subject which he may receive from Mr. Fox in answer to liis enquiry. I have the honor to be. Sir, your most obedient humb'e Servant, T. VV. C. MURDJCH. Ihe Hon. JAMES CROOKS, &e. &c. &c. ; Washington CrT'/, 16ih April, 1840. SIR: Having procured a copy of the Bill which passed the Honorable the House of Representatives, December 14th, 1837, for the relief of myself and my late ^rother^ I beg leave to hand it to you enclosed. Yoii will perceive that by it no provision was contemplated to indemnify the ow- ners of the Lord Nelson for the heavy expense they have been put to in endeavoring to procure relief, and which, one way or another, amounts to 12 a §1500. This is the second time t have myself come here on this and no other business, and my late brother came here as often, and my son once. In the first instance, gentle- men of the highest standing at the Bar were employed by us, as the late Mr. Em- mett of New York, Mr. Gould of Cooperstown, and others, and I was, immedi- ately after the seizure, obliged to charter a vessel, in conjunction with Judge Por- ter of Niagara Falls, Manchster, (who had also some vessels seized, but which were restored to him,) to proceed to Sacket's Harbour, hut Captain SVoolsey re- fused to give up mine, although I tendered security to abide the issue of any charge that might be produced against her. I will only furthermost respectfully remark, that the property having been ta- ken from under our control, and from out of our use without our consent, and that we are placed in our present position by no act of our own, I humbly trust that the liberality of Congress will be evinced by making that rcparntion to us at this late period, which is so justly our due, in the only way in which it can now be done. I have the honor to be, Sir, your most obedient humble Servant, J. CROOKS, The Hon. HENRY HUBBARD, Cka'ii. of Cora. Claims U. S. Senate, Washington. copy. 25TH CONGRESS, 2D SESSION. H. R. 76. December 14, 1837. Read twice, and committed to a Committee of the whole House to morrow. M. E. Whitney, from the Committee of Claims, reported the following: A BILL rOR THE RELIEF OF WILLIAM CROOKS AND JAMES CROOKS. Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United Slates of America, assembled, that the Secretary of the Treasury pay to William Crooks and James Crooks, citizens of Canada, or the survivor of them, five thou- sand dollars, out of any money not otherwise appropriated, the value of a vessel called the Lord Nelson, illegally seized by Lieutenant Woolsey, of the Navy of ( ti ) tiic UnitcdStiitfs on li'ike Ontailo, on the fifth dny of June, eighteen hundred and twelve, and puicliased hy the United States under an interlocutory decree direct- ing its sale, the avails of which have not been paid to said Crooks, with interest on said sum from the day of seizure until the njiprova! of the act for their relief, by the President ol the United States. SIR Washington, Saturday, April lllh. As I am anx'.ous to have some conversation with you upon the subject of your claim upon this Government, perhaps you will be so good as to call here on Monday, about 2 o'clojk, or at any time between that and 5, when you will find m« at home and very glad to see you. Your faithful and obedient servat.t, H. S. FOX. Hon. James Crooks. Washington, Thursday, April 30th, SIR: An accident prevented me from receiving your letter of last week, which eame through the post oflice, until several days afttr it was writien; and I regret that I was not at home when you called upon me on Monday. As I have found that the history of your claim is not fresh in the lecollection of the government here, I think the best way in which I can proceed, to serve you, is this: If you will make out a circumstantial statement of the claim, and of what has, up to this time, been done in it, 1 will present that statement to the Sec'y of State, with a letter from myself strongly urging the claim upon the attention of the Govern- ment, and calling upon them in good faith to exert themselves with Congress for its speedy settlement. I would ofldr to make ou such a statement myself, but that you have all the papers, and are of course better acquainted than I can be with the proceedings that have hitherto passed. The statement should particuK.ly speci- fy the date and terms of the former President's message to Congress, and of the two favorable Reports from Commtttees of the House of Representatives. No mention need be made of the Bermuda case, as that plea seems to have been aban- doned. If you agree with me in the propriety of the step above suggested, I shall be glad to present the statement as soon as you can furnish me with it. It will be best that you should send any letter direct to my house, as I do not send every day to the post office. And if it is agreeable to you to call here, you will find me at home, and very glad to see you, either to-morrow (Fiiday,) or the next day, about S o'clock, Your very faithful and obcdieat Servant, H. S. FOX. HON'BLE JAMES CROOKS, Statement relative to the Seizure of the British Schooner Lord Nelson, in time of. Peace, by an American Vessel of War, on Lake Ontario, The Schooner Lord Nelson was built at the town of Niagara, in the Prov ince of Upper Canada, in the year 1811. On the 5th of June, the year following, (1812,) she was fired into and seized by the Oneida, an American Biig of the United States, commanded by Lieutenant Woolsey, being fiist chased and then fired into, whilst on her passage from Prescott, a town also in Upper Canada, at the head of the rapids of the St. Lawrence, being at the time about half way up Lake Ontaiio, when engaged in her regular trade of carrying the productions of Upper Canada to that place on their way to Quebec, and biinging back to Niag- ara the manufactures of the country. Immediately after her seizure was known, one of the owners, repaired to, Sacket's Harbour, a port of the U. S., whither she had been conveycd,and al- at ( 7 ) though he tendered security to abide the decision of the courts of the U. Statef!, on the pretended cliarge of her having violated the embargo laws of that country, yet she was refused to be given up, and war having been declared against Great Britain by the United States on the I8(h of the same month, (June, 1812,) all intercourse ceased on the subject of said seizure, except that the owners employ- ed counsel to defend their rights, and it is understood that she was taken into the service of the United States, armed with twelve guns, and was sunk in action with the British fleet, under Sir James Yeo: Itapears that an interlocutory decree was pronunced by the U. States court under which she was bought by the Gjvern- ment, for #2,U99 25-100, and the money lodged by the court in the hands of its clerk, Theron Rudd: after Peace was restored every effort was made by the ow- ners to have the libel tried, but it was not until July, 1817, that n decree was prO' nounced in their favor, and an order made by the court for its clerk to pay over the money to the owners, but it was then discovered that the clerk had embezzled that and other monies in his hands to a large amount; whereupon the Government of the U. States sued out an extent, or other process of law, seized all the property of Theron Rudd, and also committed him to prison, where he remained under duress ten years, but no part of the money so made was paid over to the owners of the Lord Nelson as their dividend, although it will be seen by the a^ 'ompanying statement, that the proceeds of the sale of that vessel was one of the items of the ac- count exhibited against him. The owners, moreover, were never consulted as to the mdney being placed in Mr Rudd's hands, much less having given their consent there- to. And it may be proper to observe t'lat had the libel been tried immediately after the restoration of Peace in 1815, and not delayed for two and a half years there- after, the value of the vessel might not then have been jeopardized. It will be also seen that one of theowners proceeded to Washington immediately after the Peace in 1815, to claim an immediate decision of the case, but notwithstanding his endeav- ours, aided by those of Messrs. Baker and Bagot, His Majesty's then Charge de Affaires, it was delayed for two years and a half thereafter. When it was found that the money could not be obtained upon the order of the court, Mr. Bagot, in the year 1818, laid the circumstances before the United States Government, and the President in consequence sent a message to Con- gress when next in session, on 3d February, 1819. recommending that provision should be made to pay the owners of the Lord Nelson, and the senate adopting his recommendation, added a sum of money for that purpose as an amend- ment to the Bill of supply then before them, but the House of Representatives re- fused to concur therein, upon the ground, as is understood, that it was a breach of their privileges for the senate to appropriate money in such a way. On the 22d November following, (1819.) Mr. Artrobus, who had succeeded Mr. Bagot as Charge de Affaires, again brought the subjv^ct under the notice of the United Slates Government, when the then Secretary of State, Mr, Adams, informed him that since the subject had been before congress the government had received inlbrmatioli that the ship Lydia, belonging to citizens of the U. Slates, captured during the icaVf and condemned at Bermuda, had been ordered in London, to be restored tothe owners, that in the mean time, (since the sentence of restitution,) the pro- ceeds, which had been paid into the Burmuda court, were, through the default of the officers of the court, found missing, whence the claimants were likely to sus- tain a total loss, and invited Mr. Artrobus to make the case of the Lydia known to his Government, which it appears by Mr. Artrobus' letter of 1 1th Jan. that year, (1819,) he did, the Sec'y of state, at the same time expressing a doubt that any thing would be done towards indemnifying the owners of the Lord Nelson, unless a pledge was given by His Majesty's Gov'nt that the principle would be adopted that each would be answerable in similar cases for the malversation of their officers, it fur- ther appears that on 22d December, 1822, His Majesty's Minister, Sir Stratford Canning, again addressed a note to Mr. Adams on the subject of indemnifying the h 'r^ H ( 8) owners of the Lonl Ntlson, who, in reply, on the 7th June, 1S23, assumes it as the sole ground u;ion which the U. States Government would agree to pay them, that the British Government should adopt the piincipleof payment being made to citizens ol the United States, who had claims of similar nature. On the I3lh Jan>. uary, 1831, His Majesty's Slinister. Sn- Charles Vaughan, again addressed a note to the U. Slates Governmeni in regard to this subject, and on the 29th of the same Pionth riiceived in reply a communication from the then Secretary of Stite, Mr. Vau Buren, reiterating the grounds before assumed by his predecessor, and insistinii; upon the ship Lydia as being a case in point, and requested toknow wheth> er the British Government was ready to adopt the principle before msisted upon of mutual liberality (or the malversation of their respective officers, in reply to which His Majesty's Minister informed Mr. Van Buren that he had found among the archives of the Embassy communications clearly indicating that His Majesty's Government refused to accede to the proposal originally made by Mr. Adams in the month of December, I8l9. The owners of the Lord Nelson thereupon desisted from urging their claim for remuneration for several years, until a case occurred very similar to this, that of Syrenas Hall, a British stibject, residing in Upper Canada, whose vessel had been seized by the collector of customs at Sandusky, one of the ports on Lake Eiie, upon an alledged charge of having violated the revenue laws of the U. States, thro' whose neglect she was lost; but the court having decided in favor of Mr. Hall, Congress passed an act to make good his loss, and he received the money in 183^. They immediately thereafter laid their claim before Congress, but until 1836 noth- ing was done in regard to it. In the session of that year the Committee of Claims of the House of Representatives reported favorably^ but considering the sale under the intericcutcry decree of the court as no fair criterion of the value of the Lord Nelson, that house passed a resolution directing the Secretary of the Na- vy to cause an inquiry to be made as convenient to the claimants as.possible, and accordingly a committee was sent to Judge Striker of the town of Buffalo, upon whose report a Bill passed that body in the session of 183S, providing for their payment the sum of $5000 with interest from the day of her capture, but this act of justice was defeated in the Senate by a vote of 4 or 5 towards the close of their session. It is also proper to observe that although this sum would in some mea- sure have indemnified them, yet it did not include a very large outlay, which they have been obliged to make in prosecuting their just claims for so many years« and which exceeds $1500. In regard to the ship " Lydia" it will be seen that her case is entirely difi- ferent from and bears no parallel to that of the Lord Nelson. The latter was sei- zed by force in time of peace, carrying on a lawful trade on Lake Ontario, which is common to both nations, and the judgment of the Court of the United States com- pletely establishes that she had violated no law, nor was there any lawful pretence for her seizure, which took place, it is assumed, with the view of increasing the Naval Force of the U. S. in the event of War taking place, as it actually did only thirteen days afterwards : The " Lydia" on the contrary was taken during war, and was probably ordered to be restored, (whether by a reversal of the decree of the Vice Admiralty Court of Bermuda, or by an order in Council, is not known,) in consequence of her sailing under a British;^ Licence, against which the U. States enacted the most severe penalties, as not only the vessel and cargo became a good prize to any American '^ ruizer that might have fallen in with her, but the owners were made liable to the payment of four times their value, and might also be proceeded against us for a misdemeanor : The accompanying extract from the desP'>.tch of M. Rush, the American Minister, to his own Government, dated 29th September, 1819 proves that the "Lydia" was so sailing under a British Licence, which of itself was a suflicient reason for his making no -representation to the British Government on the subject, and it appears by the W Mr. ( » ) same extract that liR souf^ht instructions from his own dovernmcnt whether he was to bring the case oflicially before it or not, but it also appears by the poppers appended to the report of the Committee of Claims of the Senate, dated 2Slh April last that no such instructions were ever given to M. Rush, nor did the parties in- terested in the " Lydia" even seek the intervention of their own Oovernment, aitho'a period of2G years has elapsed since her capture, and more than 2(T years since it was brought under the notice of the Americari Ambassador in Londoirt, and {n answer to inquiries recently set on foot at New York, it is ascertained that the owners are all dead. It may also be proper to state that noevidencehas been produced in this country that such a vessel as the " Lydia" was ever built, mucht less captured, in short not a document to establish a single fact, much less to hold her case up as a ;et-off against that of the " Lord Nelson." The Report of the Committee ofClaims of the Senate, dated 28tb April (ult.) ad mits the following points, namely : — L That the Lord Nelson was captured be Lieut. Woolsey, on Lpke Ontario, on the 5th June, 1812. 2. That she was purchased by him for the service of the U. S. for the sum of 82,999 25'100, upon an interlocutory degree of the Court. 3. That the owners complained of delay in not bringing the libel to trial. 4. That at the July term 1817, a decree of acquittal was rendered in favor of the owners. 5. That the Court gave an order on the Clerk to pay over the money to them. 6. That no money was paid on said order, and that Theron Rudd, the Clerk had became Bankrupt. 7. That the value of the Lord Nelson at the time of her capture was $5000. 8. That she was captured under instructions from the U. S. Government. 9. That she was not (captured from the want of Register, Manifest or other papers : Vessels sailing the Lakes requiring none. 10. That the Court awarded no damages—on the contrary made each pay their own expenses. 11. That the President recommended by Message to Congress dated 3rd February 1819, their attention to the claim for indemnity. 12. That the Senate included a sum of money for that purpose in the Bill of snpply tbe same session, which was rejected by the House of Representatives. 13. That the Lydia was sailing under a British Licence, contrary to the laws of the U. Slates, and would have been a good prize to any cruizer of the U. States. 14. That Mr. Rush did not, urtdef such^a circumstance, entertain the appli- cation for his interference. 15. That he was not afterwards instructed by hi? Government so to inter fere, nor does it appear that such instructions were ever given to any succeeding ambassador; « r ». 16. That no other claim is attempted to be set up as an off-set to that lor the « Lord Nelson"— except the " ship Lydia." (Signed) JAMES CROOKS, * I'oiself and as Executor of the Estate ol' the late William Crook;. VVashiagton, 20th May, 1840. I t 1 I ( 10) WA8H^NaT0^ City, Wednesday, April 22d. 1840' SIR' 1 would again liavc done oy.aelf the honor of calling upon jour Excellency, but from the reluctance 1 Tcel to intrude upon jour valuable lime, and having n-jthing definite to cojiimunicate to youi Excellency in regard to the object of my joui-ney hither^ I did not do so. The committee on Claims, m the Senate, were, I understood, to have reported yesterday, but this morning 1 am told the com- mittee have applied to Mr. Poincet for a copy of the inatructions under which Oapt. Woolsey seized the Lord Nelson, and also for some information relative to the Treaty of Ghent, What these have to do with my case I confess I do not understand; for if an officer to whom the public force of a country is entrusted, missapplies that force, the Government is liable for his acts, and has the power to punish him for them: but individuals who may be a£fected can only look to them as an act of the Government. I submit this information in the hope that, as it is now oflBcially before the Executive Government of this country, your Excellency may f'eem it a fit time to interfere, and I trust wiih effect, as I have always believed that the Government of the United States was at all times ready to do the owners of the Lord Nelson justice, did the Legislature second their views. I have the honor to be &c. he J. CROOKS. His Excellency HENRY S. EOX, Ilcr Majesty's Minister Washington. lis SENATE OF THE UNITED STATES. April '2S, 1840, Submitted, and ordered to be printed. Mr. Hubbard made the following Report: Tlic Committee of Claims, to whom was referred the memorial of William and James Crooks, claiming indemnity for loss sustained by the capture of their ves- sel, during the late war, report: "That, on the 5th of June, I8l2, the petitioners were, and now are, sub- jects of the King of Great Britain; and, on said 5th day of June, were the owners of a vessel on Lake Ontario, called the Lord Nelson ; and, on the day last afore- said, that Lieutenant Woolsey, an officer of the navy of the United States, then commanding on Lake Ontario, seized and captured said vessel, called the Lord Nelson, for a pretended violation of the laws of the United States ; and therealter said vessel was libelled in the district of the eiruit court of the United States, in Ntw York, at the August term, 1812. An interlocutory decree was made by the court, directing the sale of the vessel and cargo, and that the avails of the sale be brought into court to abide the event of the suit. "The vessel was purchased by Lieutenar* Woolsey, on behalf of the Uni ted States, and was taken into the public /crvice, and armed, and was used against the British during the war. " By the return of the marshal, the vessel was sold for $2,999 25, and the cargo at $1,972 10. " The libel was not brought to trial until after tlie district of New York was divided and formed two districts, called the northern and southern districts. " Complaints were made by the petitioners, then the claimants, under said libel, to the President of tiie United Stales, by the delay in bringing sfil cause to trial. " The suit was transferred from the city of New York, io the ioriaorn dis tyict. (11) " At fhc July term, 1817, (he court in thn awl no. them district, on a hear- in;?, passed a final decree, and (herein did adjudge, order, and flecree, that (he proceeds of the sales of the said schooner, as have heen hrouj^ht inio court npon the sale nndorder of the said court, be paid over to the claimants, or to their a^ent, or attorney, duly constituted (or that purpose. ° "The court gave an order, on the clerk of the southern district, for the pay. ment of the money arising fiom the sales of said schooner and cargo. •' A controversy then arose, as to the jurisdiction of the court in the northern district of New York, over the subject. " It was said that the law dividing the circuit, made no provision for remo- ving the causes from (he city of New York to the northern circuit. "No money was paid on the order, andTheron Rudd, the clerk, with whom the money was deposited, became a bankrtipt, and a delimiter in a large amount. Soon after the war closed, and peace was restored, the petitioner?, by the di- plomatic agents of Great Britain, applied to this Government to be iedressed in their grievances." The aforegoing may be regarded as a brief statement of (he facts of this case. The committee, entertaining an opinion that important principles are mcessa- rily involved in the consideration and final decision of the claim of these memori- alists, have endeavored to ascertain with much precision its history from the peri- od of the seizure of the vessel to (he present time. On referring to the Journals of Congress, it appears that it was first presented (o the House of Kepresentatives, on the 29th of May, 1834 ; and, by order of the House, referred to the Committee on Foreign Affairs. No report was made by (hat committee, owing, probably, to the circumstance that there was not sufTicient time properly (o consider the case between the presentment of (he memorials and the close of the session. Nothing was done in 1835, but in 18,'JG, the claim was submitted to the Committee of Claims of the House, who reported a resolution on the 24;h June, 1636, authorizing the Secretary of the Navy to take testimony for the purpose of ascertaining the value of (ho vessel ami her caigo, at (he time of her capture. This was done, and, on the 11th of June, 1S37, (lie then Secreta- ry of tlie Navy made a report of which the subjoined is a copy : " Navv Department, FeLruanj'll, 1S37. *' Sir : In compliance with the resolution of the House of llepresentntives, of (he 2 ith of June, 1836, referring to the Secretary of the Navy the petition and papers of James and William Crooks, "to ascertain (on giving notice to the said .(arncs and William Crooks, or(o (heir agent, of the time and niace of taking testimony) the value of the vessel called the Loid Nelson, captured by Lieutenant Woolsey, on Lake Ontario, on the 5th of June, 1812, at the time of the said cap- ture, and the cargothmi ou board of said vesssel : ;ind tliatln; report t!ie saine at (lie next session ot'CJongress," I appoiuteil the Hon. J:lml^s Striker, of the city of liulfalo, in the State of New York, coamiissiout.T to take the tiNtiiuony rcfjuiieil by the said resolution ; due notice being ^iven to tlii; attorney of James and Wil- liam Crooks of (lie t'uie anij placeof taking' such tcitimony. I al-; • ainioiiued (Jeorge I*. Daiker, E'<|., of said city, a^-t-iit on the part of the United Slates, to he piesent at the time of the examination ot' the witne-i>e-i, \\)v tli'- |)'ii[)nse of putting such iuterrogatoiies to them as nii^ht ap|H'ar to hiiu l(j (X; piDprr aul n"('rsents, with request that they would afford such means as they may have to satisfy the inquiry. "• ** Their answer shall, as soon as received, be communicated to you. '* Wilh regard to the question whether restitution has been matle by Great Britain, of any property captured from our ciMzens prior to the 8tb ofJune, 1812, I have to state that no evidence exists in this department of any such res'-Uttiun having been made. "The claim of Messrs J. and W. Crooks has before been brought to the no- tice of this department, by application from the British legation here. I enclose copy of a memorandum made some years since of the correspondence in relation to it, which brings down the ease to the last two notes which passed between the Secretary of State and the British minister ; of which copies are likewise enclosed. You will perceive from the last-mentioned papers, that the refusal of the depart- ment of any further agency in the matter, rests upon indications furnished by the British minister, of the unwillingness of his Government to make compensation to American citizens, in circumstances sinnilar or analogous to those u[)on which the claim of Messrs Crooks is founded. Beyond the security given by publ! j officers, for the faithful discharge of their tru?ts, the Governn;ent has no means of securing its own interests, nor is it responsible for the property of citizens which may be committed to the keeeping of such oflicers. If, therefore, it cannot grant relief to its own citizens in such cases, it can recognise no obligation of the same character toward citizens of foreign nations, without express conventional arrangement for reciprocal assumption of such obligations. As Great Britnin refused to recognize any principle by which she would be bound to indemnify American citizens, hav- ing upon her claims similar to that preferred by Messrs Crooks, the United States are not, in the viewof this department, under any obligation to grant indemnity to those gentlemen. " I return the papers which accompanied your letter. " I am, Sir, respectfully, your obedient servant, " JOHN FORSYTH. " Hon. H. HUDBABD, " Chairniau Committee oi' Claims Senate." *' MEMORANDUM. " Claim of James and fVilUam Crooks. " The schooner Lord Nelson, belonging to James and William Crooks, Bri- tish subjects residing at Niagara, was, on the 5th of June, 1812, thirteen days be- liore ;he declaration of war, captured by Captain Woolsey, of the United States iarmed brig Cneidn, and sent into Sackelt's Haibor, where she was libelled in the court of the United States for the district of New Yoik, which district, at that time, embraced the whole of that State. The war breaking out soon after, the vessel and cargo were, by consent of the agent for the claimants, sold at public vendue, and the proceeds, amounting together to .$5,025 30, were deposited in the district court, to await the issue of the libel. The vessel was purchased by Cap- la'n Woolsey, on account of the United States, and converted into a man of war. ' ;f ( 14) •♦Soon after the peace, in 1815, one of the claimants repaired to Washing- ton, and, through Mr. B iker, (hen his Brittannic Majesty's charge d'atlaires, pre- ferred a claim of itideinnity tor the loss sustained by them ia consequence ot the capinre. ♦' From the letter of Mr. Baker, to the St crelary of State, of the 30th of Janu- ary, 1816, and the documents accompanying it, beside the facts stated above in relation to the capture of the vessel, it appears : ♦' 1. Thiit the motive alleijed for the seizure of the vessel was a violation of the embargo, or revenue laws of the United States. *' 2. That, of the cargo, no part belonged either to James or William Crooks. •• 3. That no part of the cargo was relanded between the time of the ves- sel's leavinp; her port of departure and that of the seizure. " 4 That the propeity was sold for its full value. *' 5. That one of the reasons assigned for the capture of the vessel, viz. her having no regisiter, manifest, or clearance, was insufficient, as no such papers were required by the custom regulations of the Canadas. " 'lo the letter from Mr. Baker, Mr. Monroe, then Sec'y of State, answer- ed on the 5lh of March, 1810, that the papers had been submitted to iheAttorney General of the United States for his con^deration ; and that, as it appeared (roni those papers that the claimants had, by instituting a suit for the recovery of the va- lue of the property, placed the matter before the judiciary, the interposition of the Executive was not then deemed necessary or proper. "In a letter dated 13th of May, 1816, Mr. Bagot communicated to Mr. Monroe a letteri-iom Thomas R. Gold, counsel for the claimants, who corrects an error into which the Attorney General of the United States had fallen, in suppos- ing that n suit had been commenced by thiem. He stales that no such suit had been instituted, but that the case was simply one of libel by the United States, which they had, for four years, neglected to bring to a final decision. Mr. Ba- got concludes his note by requesting that proper orders may be given, either to bring the libel to a speedy trial, or consent (o its being dismissed. f* On the 9th of August, 1816, a letter was addressed to Roger Skinner, At- torrieyofthe United States for the northern district of New York, in compliance with the above, instructing him to expedite the decision of the court ; and, on the pame day, Mr. Bagot was informed ot the fact. " A letter from Mr. Skinner, dated 23*1 of November, 1816, is on file in this department, in which he states that, owing to the illness of Judge Tallmadge, no court had been held at the preceding term ; but that a special term was to be ap- pointed, if the consent of the other judge could be obtained. Mr. Skinner makes some remarks as to the character of the transaction, but which do not appear to affect the merits of the case as it now stands. _•' On the nth day of July, 1817, the United States court for the northern district of New York decreed the payment to the claimants ot the proceeds of the sale which had been brought into the court, but nodumnge for rapture or deten- tion, and each party to pay their own costf. " Of this decree it appears that the department was informed by a le(ter from Mr. Gold, attorney for the claimants ; and that, on the 21st and 22.1 of August, directions were given to Jonathan Fisk and Roger Skinner, attorneys of the Uni- ted States for the southern and northern districts of New York, to facilitate the payment of the money to the claimants, in compliance with the uforesair decree. ** In a letter dated 25th August, 1817, Jonathan Fisk states that he had in- formed Mr. Gold that, on producing to the southern disMict court the decree ot" restoration issued by the northern district court, together with the cvider»ce on (15) which it was founvled, the former would doubllf.ss make on order for the imine-' di;ite payment of the money. That the act of Oth of April, 1814, dividing New York into two districts, giive to the northern district court, no jurisdiction over ca* ses pending befote the ibrmer court. That the judge of the sourthern dis- trict had decided that all cases commenced in the old court must be closed in his own court ; and that the funds deposited in it could not be subject to any decree of the southern judse. The trial hi\d been had upon copies of papers eniunating from the northern district ; and that that trial had been corum non judke. Mr. Gold had left Mr. Fisk with tht impression that he was to follow his suggestion as to the manner of getting the decree of the northern district confirmed by the southern judge, when the money would be paid. ♦' The foregoing letter was on the 2J October, 1817, communicated to Mr. Uagot. " On the loth April, 1818, Mr. Bagot communicated to tlie Secretary of State a letter from Messrs. Crooks, stating that, on personal application by their agent at New York, to Judge Tallmadge, for the papers necessary to carry the case before the southern district court, agreeably to Mr. Fisk'g suggestion, the Judge had positively refused to deliver them, upon reasons which they call of mere etiquette between the Judges of the two districts, respecting the powers of their respective courts. Mr. Bagot concludes by again asking the interference of the Executive in the case. " In consequence of the foregoing application, the Secretary ol State, on the 21 May, 1818, addressed a letter to Mr. Fisk, directing him, in the event of the clerk of the southern district court persisting in his refusal to pay the money, and of his being sustained by the judge, to inform the department whether any other mode, short of an application to Congress, be practicable to obtain relief for the parties. " To the preceeding letter Mr. Fisk answered on the 7th May, that, by an net of Congress passed the 3d April, 1818, jurisdiction was given to the court for the northern district over all cases circumscribed like that of the Nelson ; and that, consequently, the decreeof that court in the case might be considered as final. l>ut another dilliculty stili existed ; which was, that Theron Rudd, the clerk of the southern court, had, in May, 1817, absconded with all the funds of the court, amounting to about one hundred thousand dollars ; and that, therefore, no funds existed out of which the proceeds of the sale deposited in court could be paid to the claimants. On the 28th October, 1818, Mr. Bagot communicated this infor- mation to the Secretary of State, and renewed his appeal to the justice of the Gov- ernment of tlie United States. " This note was accompanied by an exemplificatlan of the certificate of the clerk of the court for the southern district of New York, that the amount of sales of the vessel was 82,999 25 ; of the cargo, $1,972 10 ; that the same were paid into court ; "\d that the balance, after deducting costs and charges accruing in that court, 84,243 32, was paid into the hands of Theron Rudd, remained there when he resigned his ofTice, and had not since been paid over to the order of the court. This certificate is dated 21st September, 1818. " Ai the ensuing session of Congress, the President, by message of the 3d February, 1819, recommended to their attention the claim to indemnity, which the legislative authority was alone comctpent to provide. The message was ac- companied by copiesof most of the correspondence and documents detailed above. " The following is the direction which was given in Congress to the subject of the message, and the course by which it arrived at a rami rejection of the pro- position made in the Senate for the relief of the claimants : " On the 11th February, 1619, Mr. Goldsborough, of the committee of Claims of the senate, to wlioui the subject hud been referied, reported a bill for the reliet^ ( 10) of WilUjiiu fiml James Crooks; which \v!i.^ twice rend by unanimous consent. (This report is not Ibund in tlic (locmneiifs.) ** This leporl was culled up on the 17ih ofthc same month, in Committee of (he Whale ; mid, on motion oC Mr. Goldsboroiigh, referred to the Committee on Finance, to consider and report thereon. " It appears tiiut the next step of tiie Senate in the business was in the shape of an amendment reported by the Committee on Finance, and engrafted upon the general appropriation bill for the support of tlie Government, making provision for the relief of the claimants. This amendment, with others, wasadopted on the 23d of Februaiy ; and, on the following day, the bill so amended, was returned to' tiie llou^e " On the 2'){h February, the amendments were, by the House, referred to the Committee ol Ways and Means, who, on the 27th, reported their agreement to all the amendments. These were, on the pame day, committed to a Commit- tee of the Whole, who reported their agreement to all those amendments except one to which they disagreed- " Tlje bill w;is on the same day (27th February) returned to the Senate, with the agreement of the House to all its amendments, except that which proposed ftn "appropriation of 84,213, to pay William and James Crooks the amount of the sales of the schooner Lord Nelson, to which they disagreed. *' On the 1st March, the Senate considered the ameudrtient disagreed to by the Ilojse of Representatives, and receded from the samc^ "On the 22 1 November, 1819, Mr. Antrobus, charge d'aflfaires of Great Britain, again called the attention of the department to the claim of Messrs Crooks ; leferred to the for.uer communications of the legation on the subject ; to the mes- sage of the President, which he states, owing to the pressure of business at the close of the session of Congress, had not been fully acted on ; and asked the interposi- tion of the Secretary to obtain for the claimants the benefit of the decree of tlj6 district court in their favor. *' To this note, Mr Adams answered, on the 7th December, that, since the subject had been before Congress, the Government had received information that the ship Lydia, belonging to citizens of the United States, captured during the war, and condemned at Bermuda, had been ordered, in London, to be restored to the owners ; that, since the sentence of restitution, the proceeds, which had been paid into the Bermu(hi court, were, through the default of the oflicers of the court, found missing, whence the claimants were likely to sustain a total loss. In assuming the payment of moneys lost by the malversations of an officer, the Presi- tlent could not doubt that, under similar ciicumstances, the British Government would apply the same piinciple to citizens of the United States ; still, before again submitting the case to Congress, it would be advisable to ascertain the disposition of his Majijsty's Government on the subject ; and Mr. Antrobus was invited to make the case of the Lydia known to his Government, and to solicit its dctermina. tion concerning if, presuming that it would be had in time to enable Congress to decide nmlerstandiiigly upon liie claim ot Messrs Crooks. " The information to which reference is made in the foregoing note, is de- rived from Mr. Hush's despatch. No, 93, September 29, 1819. Mr. Rush states that he had received from W. ^- E. Lawrence of London, a representation respecting the ship Lydia, of New York, belonging to Stephen '.nd George Hatha- way and Isaac Waite, captured and condemned as stated, and a request for his interposition. Mr. Rush, who does not think it necessary to trouble the depart- ment with his correspondence with Messrs Lawrence, deems it suiBcient to state that the vessel, when captured, was sailing under a British licence ; and that, therefore, he had declined interfering ; '« the licence which she had on board J I Vk ( i7 ) would have reudered her a prize of ivar, had she fallen into the hands of a ct uisef of our own country." Mr. Rush thought proper to say that tnuch, in order to Anticipate the representations which might be made by the parties themselves ; to whom he stated that if, in withholding his assistance, he iiad misjudged the merits 6f the case an appeal to the Department of State was still open to them. " It does not appear that ..le claimants have ever applied to the department, nor that any instructions were given to Mr. Rush on the subject of the Lydia. "On the 19th December, 1823, Mr. Canning stated that, inconsequence of a renewed application by the claimants, he wns under the necessity to call the at- tention of the department to the case of the Nelson. After briefly recapitulating the circumstances of the case, and alluding to Mr, Adams' note of the 7ih De- cember, 1810, he presumes that the vessel referred to in that note is the Lydia, of New York of which he knows nothing beyond what is contained in said note. The cases, however, are of a distinct nature : one vessel having been captured before, the other during, the war. He believes that serious difficulties would stand in the way of d general arrangement like that proposed ; and that the just and natural way would be to take the cases individually, as they arise, and decide on 6ach according to its merits. From the delay in the trial, and the defective act dividing the New York district, a degree of responsibility devolved on the Govern- ment of the United States, which extends beyond the mere delinquency of the clerk, and created circumstances, without which the property might never have been em bezzled. He concludes by urging a settlement of the claim. *' Mr Adams answers, on the I7th June, 1823, that, from the silence of the British Government upon the distinct question stated in his former letter, the in- ference appears conclusive that the -ipplication of the only principle, on which in- demnity could be granted, has not been, nor will be, conceded in cases ot claims by citizens of the United States ; that the distinction made by Mr. Canning, as to the period of capture, is levelled by the decrees ot restitution which, in both cases, imply a wrong capture. The renewal of an application to Congress withheld, in consequence ofthe question whether the indulgence demanded would be extended to citizens of the United Slates. No affirmative answer having, in three years, been given to that question, t-he reason which forbade the interposition of the Exe- cutive still exists in all its force, and could not but issue in the same determina^ tion." ** Department of State, Washington, January 29, 1831. " The undersigned. Secretary of Siate of the United States, has the honor to acknowledge the receipt of a note which was addressed to him under date ofthe I3lh instant, by the Right Honorable ChalesB. Vaughan, his Britannic Majesty's envoy extraordinary and minister plenipotentiary, on the subject of a claim of iMessrs. William and James Crooks, of the Province of Upper Canada, arising out ot an unsettled account for the seizure of the schooner Lord Nelson by the United Slates brig Oneida, on Lake Ontario, in the year 1812. •• Mr. Vaughan, in alluding to the circumstances of the case, and to the pro- ceedings and correspondence to which the demand of Messrs. Crooks growing out of it has given rise between this departintnt and his Biitannic Majesty's lega- tion, has made reference to an application of one of his predecessors for the ac". justment of the claim, and to the answer which was returned to it by the then Se- cretary of Slate of the United Statet;. ** Upon releience lo the records of this department, the undersigned finds, in that answer, the following passage, which he begs leave to submit to the peru- sal of Mr. Vaughan : " ' la recomtuending to Congress, at their last session, the passage of an 4 ;i ,' net by which the United Slates wou!(i ossume tlie pnyment of moneys due (o Bri- tish subjects, but lost by the malversation of the public ofHcer intrusted with them, the President could not doubt that, under circumstances of the same character, the benefit of the principle which could alone warrant this assumption, would equally be enjoyed by citizens of the United States, by the dispensation of the British Government. •' ' Tlie case here referred to appearing, by the statement thus made, to cast a doubt on the question, whether this principle has been, or will be recognized and carried into efl'ect in England, it would be advisable, before submitting the case of the Lord Nelson again to Congress, to ascertain the definite sentiment of your [his Britannic Majesty's] Gov't with regard to this principle and its practical appli- cation to the benefit of the citizens of the U. S. I have, therefore, to request you to inak': known to your Government the case of the ship Lydia, and to solicit their determination "concerning it ; presuming that the information may be ob- tained in season for Congress to decide, after being possessed of it, upon the claim of Messrs. Crooks, before the close of the present session.' ••The undersigned, in more particularly calling the attention of Mr. Vaughan to the concluding part of the foregoing extract, begs leave to advert to the request therein addressed to the then representative of his Britannic Majesty in the U. States, to solicit the determination of his Government as to the applicability of the principle involved in behalf of the claim of Messrs. Crooks, to a case analogous iii its circumstances and merits, which had occurred in the island of Bermuda, and which formed the grounds upon which citizens of the United Slates had raised a demand upon his Britannic Majesty's Government. The files of the Depart- ment of State furnish no evidence of its request having been complied with, oi attracted the notice by the British charge de aflfaires to whom it was addressed, and to this circumstance, the undersigned presumes, is to be ascribed the delay which has taken place in the fu' ther examination of the subject ; nor is any re- ference made by Mr. Vaughan's note to the request referred to. " Under the circumstances, the undersigned has to ask the favor of Mr. Vaughan to inform hira whether the desire heretofore expressed by this Govern- ment in this regard, has been submitted to that of bis Britannic Majesty, and, if so, to acquaint hira with the decision which may have been made upon it. " The undersigned has the honor to renew to Mr. Vaughan the assurance of his highest consideration. ' M. VAN DUREN. "Right Honorable Charles R. Vaughan, " His Britannic Majesty's Envoy Extraordinary and Minister Plenipotentiary." Washington, February 1, 1831. Silt: •'The undersigned, his Britannic Majesty's envoy extraordinary and minis- ter plenipotentiary, has the honor to acknowledge the receipt of the note of the Secretary of State of the United States, dated the 29th January last, in answer to the claims of Messrs. Crooks, of Upper Canada, arising out of an unsettled ac- count for the capture of the schooner Lord Nelson, in 1812, upon Lake On- tario. •• The answer recited in Mr. Van Buren's note, as having been given by the Government of the United States to the claims of Messrs. Crooks, when brough forward by bis Majesty's charge de aflfaires, Mr. Autrobus, in 1819; directed the attentioQ of the undersigned to an examination of the archives of the mission 'un- der his charge, in order to ascertain what answer had been given by the British re- ( 19 ) Government to the proposal contained In the note of Mr. Adams, the Secretory of State of the United State?, dated the 7ih December, 1819, which amounted to this : tliat each Government should accede to the piinciple of holding them- selves responsible for sums of money awarded by their courts of law, but lost to the claimants of the respective nations by the malversation of public otficers under whose custody it might have been placed. " The undersigned is assured by Mr. Van Buren, that an answer, on the part of the Brifish Government to the proposal of Mr. Adams, is not to be found in th- archives of the Department of State. The undersigned, however, has found, up- on examining the archives of the British missiion, communications from his Ma- jesty's Government, cleat ly indicating that the latter refused lo accede to the pro* posal originally made by Mr. Adams in the month of December, 1819. *' The undersigned having ascertained this fact believes it to be his duly to desist from prosecuting any further the claims ol Messrs. Crooks, until he shall re- ceive instructions to renew his application from hisMajestj's Government. " The undersigned has the honor to renew to Mr. Van Buren, the assurance of his highest consideration. " CHAS. R. VAUGHAN- *' Hon. Martin Van Duren, &p." The committee fully assent to the views expressed in the aforegoing corres- pondence. From the opinion which the committee entertain of national policy and of the intercourse which ought to prevail between different nations, founded, as they ever should be, upon the immutable principles of justice, they cannot yield their assent to the propriety of providing for the claims of the subjects of a foreign Government, when that Government disregards the claims of one of our own citizens similarly situated. While it is believed that the United States will ever be reaily to provide for the just claims of foreign Governments, or of the sub- jects of foreign Governments, it can never fail to assert the-equally just claims of her own citizens. Before the memorialists can successfully prosecute their claim before an American Congress, it must bo made to appear that the Government of Great Britain are willing to acknowledge and to satisfy the claims of the owners of the ship Lydia. Before the Government of Great Britain can asic justice at the hands of our own Govtrnmenf, for a supposed wrong done to one of her citizen?, that Government must admit her readiness to render equal justice to our Govern- ment for a like injury done to one of her citizens. The committee cannot but regard the case of the memorialists, and the case of the owners of the ship Lydiii, as a proper subject for negotiation between the two Governments. Up to 183t, it was so treated, and properly so treated in the opinion of the committee ; and, as nothing has occured since Mr. Vaughan's let- ter to Mr. Van Buren, copies of whicii aie given, with reference to the action of the Government of Great Britain in relation to the case of the Lydia, -it would seem to the committee to .be manifestly unjujt to our own citizens to make any provision for the claim of these memoii;) lists, so 1 ng as the claim of the owner of the Lydia shall remain tmarrnngc(i and unsatisfied. In closing this report, the cocnmittee do not, by any means, intend to admit that, under the circumstance of this case, they would be (irepared to report in favor of the claimants, were the case freed from the eitibarrapsments to which they have adverted. They do not iiitcjid to say that the memorialists are or are not barred by the preliminary proceedings of the court, so far as the sale of the Nelson was madfi and its proceeds placed with the clerk of the court with their assent lo abide the event of the suit. Upon this point they express no opinion. But finding difficul- ties in their view insurmountable, to any defmife and liiial action of Congress upon 1 ( St) ) ^lie case of the memorialists as it now exisfs, the committee recommend the pdop- tion of the following resolution : Resolved, That the committee be discharged from the further consideratiori of this memorial. 1 ^ \ I \'\ 11 Rem(t*'ks on the Report of the Committee of the Hon'ble the Senate to Wtontieas re- ferred the claim of W. ^ J. Crooks. At the very commencement the report states that the vessel for which they claim indemnity, was captured " during the late war." The war was not declar- ed till the 18th June 1812, and the Lord Nelson was seized on the 5th of that month, thirteen days antecedent. The case of the Lydia was tar otherwise than a parallel one. By Mr. Rush's despatch of 29th September 1819, it will be seen that that vessel, if seized at all, was so during Var carrying on Trade under a British Licence, contrary to the laws of the United States, which, as Mr. Rush observes ** would have rendered her a piize of war had she fallen into the hands of a cruizer of our own," country and he (Mr. R) considered the application made to him so frivolous that he would not entertain it, unless directed so to do by the Government of the U. States, which direction was never given, nor did the parties interested, ever apply for its interference. The whole statement, moreover, regarding the Lydia appears to be ex-parte, not a single voucher or document of any kind being produced to substantiate any part of it. Neither has the parties interested sought, at any time, the assistance of jiheir own Government to procure their indemnification, although upwards of twenty-six years has elapsed since her supposed capture, and more than twenty years since Mr. Rush was applied to on the subject, a period which, even in re- gard to Real Estate, would have completely barred the ejectment of a Tenant ir^ pc>ssession, and three times that in which actions in regard to personal property is barred by the limitations of the laws of most countries : It is also understood from, enquiries recently set on foot at New York, that the owners of the *' Lydia'* are alldead. That the British Government should have declined giving the pledge alluded to in the report, is not to be wondered at, as, in point of fact, there was no case before them to which it was applicable. There is evidently an error in the report of the committee as to the time when Messrs. Crooks' claim was first brought before the notice of Congress, (1834,) as the report itself states that the President of the United States on the 3rd Feb- ruary 1819, sent a message to Congress recommending the passage of an Act for their indemnification : It is also in evidence that the U. States seized all the pro- perty they could find belonging to Mr. Rudd, and also incarcerated him in Gaol, or kept him under duress for a period of ten years, and that the sum deposited with him, as the avails of the sale of the Lord Nelson under the interlocutory de- cree of the court, was one of the items contained in the amount brought against him, and although some money must have been n;ade out of his effects, yet no dividend was paid to the owners of the Loid Nelson, who never assented to the money being placed in his (Rudd's) hands, nor, indeed, were they consult- ed at all in the matter. In the report the sum for which the Lord Nelson was sold, is stated at $2, 999 25: It is hardly nece^isary to state that a vessel capable of carrying twelve l|;uns must have been worth a great deal more money, more particulary a new mm ( 51 ) vessel— for she was built only the year before — nnd (he evidence taken nt Buf- falo in 1837, estfxblishes that slie cost at least 85000, indeed, could not then be built for lens than S8000. In the year 1817 a vessel belonging to Cyrenius Hall, a subject of Great Britain, residing in Upper Canada, was seized at Sandusky, a port on Lake Erie, for a supposed violation of the revenue laws of the United States, and when ordered to be restored by a judgment of the District Court, it was found that she had been lost by the neglect of the collector, whereupon Mr. Hall peti- tioned the Government, and an act was passed in Congress for his relief, and he received his money in 1833 : This vessel was named the ?' Julia," When the Lord Nelson was seized by Captain VVoolsey, one of the owners proceeded to Sackett's Harbour, whither she had been carried, and tendered security to abiile the issue of any charge that might be preferred against her in the courts of the United States, but he refused to give her up. 53" Among the papers submitted to Congress is a statement by which it appears (hat the sum qf upwards of $})000 was found in one of the Bunks, which ^he U. S. appropriated to itself as a part of Rudd's debt. May, 1840. Washington, May, 9ih, 1840. DEAR SIR: I inclose to you the correspondence, as fir as it has gone, that I hare had with the Secretary of State upon (he subject of your claim. You will see that no final answer is yet eiven : but from what has passed, and from verbal information from Mr. Forsyth, I have much reason to think that the answer and decision cf the Government here, (as far as they may take upon themselves to decide the case at all,) will not at present be favourable. In this event, and if the decision of Congress should be also unfavourable, the only course left will be to bring the whole claim, wi(h the history ot it from its origin down to the present time, officially under the consideration of our Government at home, who will then I should hope furnish nie with suitable instructions, for^the claim appears to me to be one of^clear and indisputable justice. I do not at present understand, either from the printed papers, or from what I can find in the archives of the mission, in what form, or when, or whether at all, the claim has been brought officially under the consideration ofH. M. Government. At any rate, as ihe business is of old standing, it will be best to make out a very complete statement to be sent home, and upon this I shall be most happy to consult with you, and to give the best as- sistance I can. I presume that in 3 or 4 days, or sooner, I shall have Mr For- syth's further answer. The papers which I now send, you can return to me at your leisure. Your very faithful and obedient servant. H. S. FOX. Hon'ble James Crooks. Washington, May 5, 1840. SIR Mr. James Crooks of Upper Canada, one of the claimants before Congress for indemnity from the United States Government for loss sustained through the illegal capture of a British vessel called the "Lord Nelson" by a ship of war of the United States on the 5th June, 1813, previously to the declaration of war, in re- iii; ( 22 ) . . fercnce to wijch claim vaiioiis correspondences have lieretofore pnssed between the United States Government and his Majfsfy's IcgiUion, has directed my atten- tion to a fresh report upon the subject, submitted to the Senate on tiic 281 h ulf. from the Committee of Claims, to whom the case has once more been referred durin::; the present session of Congress, I find annexed to diis report a communication addressed l)y you to the Chair- man of the Committee of Claims on tlie 23 I ult. together witii a memorandum ftirniahed by the Department of State, of tlie corrcspondcnee and proceedings in relation to the claim in question from its orign down to the jear 1 83 J. If the unfavorable report now olVered by the Committee of Claims of the Se- nate, upon grounds, as ajipears to me, unsatisfactory and insullicient, should bo adopted anil affirmed by Congress, and by the Government of the United States, it will then remain for the claimants to brmg the history and merits of the cai^e un- der consideration of his Majesty's Govprnment at home. Bat I deem it my duty in the mean time to otfer to you the following' remarks, in the hope that a recon- sideration of the circumstances of the case may induce the United States Govern- ment to recommend to Congress a different and more favorable decision. It will be seen from the concluding paragraph of the report of the committee that the recommendation to refuse the indemnity claimed for the British ship, "Lord Nelson,'' is there mainly, indeed solely, grounded upon the imagined refu- sal of the British Government to satiify the claims of the owners of the American ship Lydia. But the case of the American ship "Lydia" had been already admit- ted by the U. States authorities themselves to be in no respect similar to the case of the "Lord Nelson." The "Lydia" when captured, was sailing with a British licence, under circumstances that would have rendered her n prize of war to a cruiser of her own country, therefore, as riijhtly stated in the memorandum above referred to, neither Mr. Rush the United States Envoy, at the time in London, nor the Government of the United States since, did ever itr fact bring that case under the consideration of the British Government ; nor could they in reason or justice have done so. The case then of the " Lydia" ought assuredly to be laid out of the question altogether. I find however, that other and ditferent grounds for refusal are recommended in the letter addressed by you to the Chairman of the Senate's Committee of Claims on the 23d April. It appears from the observations contained in that letter, that the United States Government are not prepared to Dold themselves accountable for wrongs and losses sustained by foreign claimants through the default or mal- versation of public otiicers of the United States, unless a distinct allegation is be- forehand recognized by the foreign Government of whom those claimnntt. are the subjects, that it will grant to citizens of the United States the same redress under similar circumstances. But as such circutr.stances can only be presumed to arise out of the fraud or delinquency of [)ublic ciricerp, it cannot justly be expected that a foregn Govern- ment should consent to give a hy[ olhetical pledge ns to the manner in which it will grant redress, whenever such acts of fiand or delinquency on the part of its ofll- cers shall be cort^mitted. It is sirrely more reasonable a'ul correct that every case of such description should be treated separately, upon its own merits, accor- ding as they may happen to arise. The reciprocal obligation could not properly be recognized by Great Britain, because no case in fact was before the British Government to which srrch obligation wotrld apply. It is ftirther to be observed that in the case of the defaulter, Theron Rudd, Clerk of the United States Circuit Court, through whose bankruptcy the present claim arose, the United States seized all the property that could be found belong- ing to him ; the sum deposited in his hands as the proceeds f the sale of the ( 33 ) Lord Nelson, being only one out ofmnny items brought against blin. The clui* monls hud never assented to the money being plnecd in Mr. Rudd'e hands; they ne» ver were, nor could they have been, consulted u|)on the subject. 1 have the honor tu Le, icc.f &c., (SigiK-d) H. S. FOX. Department of State, WaiiliiiiL'lon, May 7ih, 1840. SIR: 1 have the honour to acknowledge the receipt of your note of 5th instant relating to the claim of the Messrs. Crooks on the government of the United States, in the case of the British vessel *' Lord Nelson," captured by nn American ship of-wnr on the 5:h June 1812, and before rcpl- -ng, have to request that you will be pleased to inform me whether therepresen.ations therein made, in behalf of this claim for indemnification, are urged under renewed instructions from her Britannic Majesty's Government, or merely as an argument to be used in favor of the cliiimnnts in the event of future action on the merits of the case by any branch of this Government. 1 have the honor tu bp, with high consideration, Your obedient servant, (SigiiCd) JOHN FORSYTH. Henry S. Fox, Esq. kc. kc. Washington, May 8th, 1840. SIR: 1 have the honor to inform you, in reply to your letter of yesterday's date, with reference to the claim before Congress of Messieurs Crooks of Upper Cana- da, that my previous letter upon that subject of the 5Lh instant, was not written under renewed instructions from her Majesty's Government at home, to whose attention I believe the case has not been of late years presented by the claimants, as they had not relinquished the hope thr\t if would be favourably decided upon in this country without the renewed intervention oftheir own Government being re- quired : The representations which I deemed it my duty to make to you, were urged with a view to promote if possible such a result, and inconsequence of strong recommendations in behali'of the claimants, addressed to me by the Pro- vincial Government of Upper Canada, and by the Governor General of British North America. I have the honor to be, &?. he. (Signed) II. S. FOX. Tlie Ilon'ble John Forsylli. Washington, 12lh May, 1840. SIR, I owe you many thanks for the letter your Excellency has favored me with of date 9th insiant, and for the accompanying correspondence with the Secretary of State of lliis Government relative to the " Lord Nelson," which I beg leave to return herewith. In the year 1831, being then in England^ the late Mr. John Gait, at my in- stance, addressed a letter to Lord Palmerston requesting an answer to statements relative to the *' Lord Nelson" by him previously made at the request of the own- :i|;' ! -i Ullltj: ■i.i (24) Crp, when hid Lordship 4leclined nny turttiei iii(cr"^rc'rice, as will be seen by (heir letter addressed to Mr. Gait by Mr. Backhouse, his Lordship's y 'cretary, which 18 not in niy possession at present, but which 1 will procure. ' :»d transmit to your Excellency before ! leave this city. I have good reason lor bvilievin^ thot his Lordship was, at the time, not aware of the circumstances under which the *• L; Jiu" was captured and that his refusal to entertain the subject proceeded sohly from the abstract principle of indemnity for the misconduct of the orticers ofcitiier Government being insisted upon by that of the U. States, and 1 am the more inclined to this opinion as in point of fact, 60 far as we know the case of the " Lydia" had never been submitted for his Loid- ship's consideration. I confess that I was myself entirely ij^norant upon the subject till I saw the extract from Mr. Rush's di patch of 29i'h !Sep. 1819, and it was not till Mr. Hall's success in 1833 or 1834, that we were encouraged to renew our application for indemnity, as his case was an obvious departure by Congress frotn the principle before insisted upon, and which seems now to be the great difliculty in jirocuring that justice which has been so iang withheld, and which is so justly our due. I beg to trouUie your Excellency with a Statement of the facts connected with the seizure of our vessel, in which I will be happy to make any alterations therein or additions thereto that you may suggest. The documents connectd with this' case cannot be obtained till it is disposed of by the Senate. It was called up yes- terday morning and the report of its committee of claims adopted, but upon motion of the Hon'ble Mr. Clay it was, I understand, laid on the table for reconsideration. Should Your Excellency have received Mr. Forsyth's answef to your last letter addressed to him, I will feel extremely obliged by your communicating it to me, and will have great pleasure in waiting upon Your Excellency at any time that will be convenient to you. I have the honor to be, &c. &c. J. CROOKS. The Hon'ble li. S. FOX. ii:i; SIR: Washington, May Hi 1840. Since I had the honor of addressing your Excellency on Tuesday last (12ih instant,) the two reports enclosed, the one being on the case of Mr. Hall, dated 24th April, 1632, and the other that of the^Lord Nelson, dated 14th December, 1837, have come into my possession, and although they were among the papers eubmitted to you by my agent, Mr. Clarke, which are now before the Senate, ytt us reference to them at this time may be useful, I beg leave to band them to you. It appears to me that they fully establish the position, that Congress in indem- nifying Mr. Hall, (whose case was by no means so strong as ours i.=!,) departed from the principle, before and now insisted upon by the Executive Gov't, of the United States, and that when the two last paragra|)hs of the report are diily con- sidered they cannot fail to have great weight in bringing this afluu' to a speedy and favorable issue. I beg leave also to enclose the copy of a letter addressed by me to Mr. vlub- bard. Chairman of the Committee of Claims of the Senate, soon after my arrival at this place, claiming to be allowed our expenses, to which he made no reply — also a copy of the Hill passed by the House of Representatives in 1837 for our re- lief, but which was rejected iu the Senate by a very small vote. 1 have honor to be, &c., &c.. J- CROOKS. Hiii Excellency the lion. II. £>. Fox. (25) Washington, IVIay 21, ISid. SIR: I beg leave to state that the case of the " Lord Nelson" came up in the Se- nate j'esterday, and was continued to-day, when upon a motion made by the Chairman of the Committee of Claii.s, it was postponed indefinitely. I shall endeavor to furnish your Excellency (through a friend,) with a certified copy of the decision, but 1 am afraid that a standing order of the Senate precludes ine from withdrawal of the papers which accompanied my claim; but this is of the less consequence, as the report of the CommiUee admits the main points connected with it. I shall, however, do all I can to have them also, and place them in your Excellency's hands. The motion that prevailed was moved as an amendment td one made by Mr. Clay yesterday, that the report be referred back to the Committee, with mstruc- tions to report a Bill for the relief of the claimants, age", -t which two arguments were attempted to be used, firstly, that the United State: Government were not liable for monies placed by the court in the hands of their clerks,* and second- Iv, that if even it were so, the case of the "Lydia," being a similar one, no in- tiemnification ought to be made to the owners of the " Lord Nelson,'' until the F itish Government agreed to pay for her. Under this circumstance, I have earnestly to beg the favor of your Excellen- cy to forward the enclosed statement of the case of the Lord Nelson to England, at your earliest convenience, accompanied with your own observations thereon, and the report of the Committee of Claims of the Senate, which being olficia), will, I hope, enable her Majesty's Government to make it the subject of commu- nication with that of the United States, and will deem it a very great favor would your Excellency communicate to me any thing that may occur in consequence, for which purpose I annex my address to this letter. I have only further to express my regret for the trouble I have given, and to beg your Excellency's acceptance of my best thanks for the assistance you have so freely afforded me. I have the honor to be, &c. &:c. J. CROOKS. His Excellency the Hon. H. S. FOX, &c. &c. &c. SHIP LYDL^.— FITZGERALD, MASTER. It appears by the records of the court of Admiralty, of Bermuda, that this vessel was owned at New York by Stephen i'Jathaway, jr. and Isaac Waite, mer^ chants of that city, and was sailing under a British Licence. On her voyage from New York aforesaid, to Charleston, South Carolina, in the United St;ites 61' America, to take cargo for Cadiz, she was captured by H. M. ship Poictiers, Sir John P. Beresford, Kn't. Cai-tain, and others, and brought to Bermuda, whefe she was condemned by the Vice Admiralty Court as prize to the captors. H. SPENCER, Dep'y Reg. St. Ueorges, Bermuda, Feb. 5, 184L *A2iiiiist wbich position Mr. Webster qwotcd an act of Congress, passed in the jcar 1814, nm- kFiig it tlic duty of tiic courts to place all such monies in some chartered bank, or other safe place of dcposite. Also uuotlicr act passed iu lbl7, enforcing the fornier. t SIR ( 26 ) West Flamborough, June I), 1840. After an attendance at Washington of six wetks in prosecution of my claim for indemnity for the value of the schooner Lord Nelson, seized in 1813, (thir- teen days before the declaration of war,) by an American vessel of the United States, I regret to say that I failed in that object. His Excellency the Governor General having done me the favor during the ])ast winter, to address to his Excellsncy the British Ambassador at Washington, in regard to this claim, and his Excellency Sir Geo. Arthur having also favored me with an introduction to Mr. Fox, I found that talented gentleman deeply im- jiressed with a sense of the injustice with which I had been treated, and every ellort to obtain indemnification failing, he has been so kind as to transmit to her Majesty's Government in England, a statement of the case ; and as his Excel- lency the Governor General was pleased to take an interest in the matter, at the lime above alluded to, I entertain the hope that he will further grant me his favor and assistance in obtaining that justice which has been so long and so cruelly with- held, by a strong representation to her Majesty's Government in England in my be- halli in aid of those made by Mr. Fox, when I cannot doubt of success. As by the documents accompanying this letter, I feel assured that his Excellency will perceive that no clo-m could be more just than mine is. I would further beg leave to represent to his Excellency that from the great value of the British shipping now navigating the Canadian lakes, and their impor- tance, as well to the security as prosperity of these Provincer-, it is at this time a matter of the greatest consequence that no infraction of the rights of her Majes- ty's subjects should be permitted on the part of the only foreign Government which from its local situation can invade them, and humbly hope that the readi- ness of the mother country, so magnanimously evinced on all occasions to jjrotect the maritime rights of her subjects, wherever resident, will not be withheld on the present occasion. 1 have the honor to be, &c. &c. J. CROOKS. T. W. CtTNTON Murdoch, Esq. Chief Secretary to his Excellency the Gov. General. Government Hocse, Montreal, 18lh June, 1840. smt 1 am commanded by the Governor General to acknowledge the receipt of your letter of the 9th inst., and to inform you that liis Excellency has transmitted a copy of it and of the accompa. j.ng documents to the Secretary of State, with a request that her Majesty's Government will make such a representation to the Government of the United States, as may insure a favorable consideration of your claim to indemnity on account of the seizure of your vessel the " Lord Nelson." I have the honor to be, Sir, Your obedient servant, „ .,, . „, ,,. . T.W.CMURDOCK, Chief Secretary Hon'ble Ji Crooks, West Flamboro', U. C. (27) Government House, Montreal, 12th October. 1840. SIR: ' 1 nm directed by the Governor General to transmit to you, with referenco to your claim to be indemniiied by the Government of the United State? for the seizure of your vessel the " Lord Nelson," prior to the declaration of war between that Government and Great Britain, the accompanying copies of a despatch and enclosures which his Excellency has recently received from the Secretary of State for the Colonies on the subject, I am to express to you his Excellency's regret that the opinion of the Queen's Advocate on the case should be such as to preclude her Majesty's Government from making a representation thereon to the United States Government. 1 have (he honor to be, Sir, Your obedient servant, T. VV. C. 34URDOCK, Chief Secretary. The Hon'ble J. Crooks, West Flamboro', U. C. COPY, No. aao. Downing Street, 7th Sept. 1840. MY LORD : I have received your Lordship's despatch, 121, of the I7th June, submitting the claim of Mr. James Crook?, to be indemnified by the Government of the United States for the seizure of his vessel the " Lord Nelson" on Lake Ontario, previously to the declaration of war between Great Britain and the United States. Having forwarded tl.o papers to Viscount Falmerston, with a request that his Lordship would make such a representation to the United States Government on the subject as the circumstances of the case might seem to require, I have received from his Lordship the reply, of which a copy is enclosed lor your infor- mation. I have the lienor to be &c., (Signed) J. RUSSELL] To Lord Sydenham. COl'Y. FouEiGN Office, I3ih August 1840. SIR: Having laid before Viscount Palmcrston your letter to Mr. Backhouse of the 23.1 uliiino, transmitting a copy of a lett(M' from the Governor General of Canada, enclosing tlie claim of Mr. Crooks of Upper Canada, for indemnifica- tion iVom th« Governnj nt of the United States of America for the seizure of his vessel (he " Lord Ne'son," in 1812, be. ore the dpclaiation of war between the United States and lire it liiitain, 1 am directed by "N'isconnt Pahncrston to ac- quaint yon lor the int'ornjation ol' Lortl ,1. llnssell, that previously to making any communication to the Anieiican Government on this snbjecf, his Lordship, caused your letter and its enclosiircs to be ret'eired to [L M. Advocate General and 1 herewitli transmit to you for Lonl J. liussell's consideration, a copy of the Report of that Ollicer tliei(Mi|)on. His Lordship will obscive that the Queen's Advocate isofopinion that it woild not be advisable to press the claim of Mr. Crooks any fuither upon the American Government. I liavc the honor to he kc. (Sij^'ucd) LEVKSON. To J lines Slophun, K.-q. m.u-* ill ! ,1 liiW H [hi if i! H Ii' s ii ;.-i ' ( 28 ) DocTOKs' Common?, lOih August, 1840.. MY LORD: I am honored with your Lordship's commands signified in Lord Leveson's letter of the 51h instant, stating that he was directed to transmit to me the accom- panying letter from the Colonial Office, enclosmg a copy of a despatch from the Governor General of Canada, submitting the claim of Mr Crooks of Upper Ca- nada on the American Government, for the seizure of his vessel the Lord Nel- son, in 1813, before the declaration of war between the United States and Great Britain, and to request that I would take this case into consideration and report to yonr Lordship my opinion thereupon. Having in obedience to your Lordship's commands, taken the papers into consideration, I think that I cannot better discharge my duty than by sending to your Lordship the following copy of the King's Advocate's Report, dated 28th July 1823, to Mr. Canning, then Secretary of State for Foreign AtTairs, on this very case : — "Sir: I am honoured by your commands signified in Lord F. Conyng- ham's letter of tl>e2Glh instant, transmitting a despatch from H. M. Minister in America on the subject of the ''Lord Nelson" schooner, the proceeds of which after restitution of the vessel had been decreed by sentence of the District Court of the State of New York, were embezzled by the Clerk of the Court, and for which hitherto the exertions of H. M. Minister at Washington, have been un- availing to procure indemnification for the parties. *' And you are pleased to request that I would report to you my opinion as to the further instructions which it may be expedient to H. M. Minister at Wash- ington, upon this case. " In obedience to your coimriands I h»ve the honor to report that the Gov- ernment is not strictly responsible for losses occasioned by the default of the regu- *.ar officers of the Court ; the remedy of the party is against the individual under the la\vsof the Country, on the same terms and conditions as would belong to any subject of the country having similar claims upon him. " The events of the late war having obliged H. M. Government to act on that principle in several instances, in deciiuing such responsibility, and it would not be advisable to press this claim further. (Signed) CHRISTR. ROBINSON." I beg leave to add that I entirely concur in the above report, and that I find the same principle has been applied to similar cases, amongst others to that of the '• Main" riipoited upon to Lord Castlereagh, on the 1st fc;ept. 1814, and tothj J^ordsof tiie Treasury in Nov. 1817, and also on the 4th Ju'y, 1814. I have the honor tn be. (Signed) J. DObSON. West Flambouough, IGth November, 1840. SIR: I have the honor to acknowledge the receipt of your l^-tter dated 12th of the present month, communi"".;!!!^ copies of certain opinions of Her Majesty's law officers in England, in reference to the claim made by me for indemnilication for the loss of the Schooner Lord Nelson in 1812, previous to the declaration of war between Great Britain and the United States of America, and expresj-ing the regiet of His Excellency the Governor General that those opinions aie unlavorable to jjie prosecution of my claim. ( 29) I hes^ you will express to His Lonlship the Governor General, my grateful acknowledgments for the trouble he has taken in n)y behalf, afthe same time I hope he will permit me to state that 1 cannot consider the opinions referred to above as bearing with much, if any force, upon the cape of the Lord Nelson, more par- ticularly as those opinions were given so long ago ^s 1814, before the war was yet ended, and repeated in 18L7, the same year that the court of the United States for the northern division of the State of New Yoik, decided that the said vessel should be restored. In regard to the opinion that individuals must look to the officer of the court personally for the money embezzled by him, I beg leave to dissent from, and to state that even were such opinion the correct one, still it does not apply to the case of the Lord Nelson, inasmuch as the United States has assumed '.e value of that vessel in their account against Mr. Rudd, while they rejected o,.,crs, thus making a decided distinction in my favor, and of which amount they (the U. S.) received a part, — in one instance, nearly $10,000 fron» one Bank and I am unable to say how muchjfiom his other property and personal effects, without paying over to me any proportion of it — and, moreover, kept him under duress for 10 years. IJad all the money been made, how could I individually have compelled the payment of my proportion ? In the discusjiion which took place in the Senate of the United States at its last Session, at which I was present, less stress was laid upon the responsibilty of the officer who embezzled the money, than upon the case of the Lydia being a pa- rallel one — indeed a prominent member ot that body read in his place an act of Congress passed in 1814 making it the duty of the Courts of Justice in which mo- ney was deposited, to " invest the same in some chartered Biink, or some other safe place ofdeposit," which act was reinforced by another passed in 1^17. The case of the Lydia was stated at length in ihe papers heretofore submitted, so that it is unnecessary again to trouble his Lordship with it. Hut as by the stateujcnt of their own minister at the court of London (Mr. Hush) it is made manifest that that vessel had forfeited her national character by sailing under a British Licence, a representation from her Majesty's Government, through the ambassador at Washington, to that elFecf, would, I have well founded hopes, secure my indem- niiication. I can easily imagine that to press a case so trifling in amount upon the con? sideration of Her Majesty's Ministers, cannot be otherwise than irksome, still to tne, who lost so Uiuch more than I nceived, by the war, besides giving up my bu- siness and serving in the Militia lor three Campaigns, it is of mateiial importance, and the question must lor ever reciw " what are the Inhabitants of these provinces to do to recover their just rights when de{)rivt(i of them by a foreign ration, if our own decline interfering''. 1 diti hope that I had made out a strong case of indiyi? dual hardship and injustice, and so thought the Legislative Council, who in the Ses- sion of 1839, represLMited it in an aildress to Her Majesty, but in the answer there- to, dateil 27th June 1830, Her Majesty's Ministers make no leferencf to it what- ever. The address and answer 1 have the honor to enclose, and aliall for the present content m\selfwith suggesting that, if principles of public policj. ''pter Her Majesty's Government from making a question of it with tliatoftle United Slates, it is due to those wlio way suffer, as in the case of the Loid Nelson, that they should be indemnified by oin- own Government. 1 iiavo the lienor to he. Sir, your most Obedient, Humble Servant, .lAMKS CROOKS. T, W. CLINTON iMininOCri Es(i. &c fee. &c. v"^../.V m ( 30 ) Government House, Monlreal, 30ih November, l84a SIR: I. am commanded by the Governor General (o acknowledge the receipt of your letter of the 17tli instant, controverting the opinion of the Queen's Advocate, in regard to your claim to indemnification from the United States Government ; on account ol the seizure in 1812 of the Lord Nelson Schooner — Hi» Excellen- cy desires me to say that he will transmit your letter to the Secretary of State, in order that the arguments adduced by you may be laid betbre the Queen's Advocate, for his consideration. have the honor to be, Sir, your most obedient Servant, T. W. C. MURDOCH, Chief Secretary. ThcHon'ble JAMES CROOKS, West Flamborough, U. C. ' Government House, Montreal, 8lh March, 1841. SIR: Your further communication of the 17lh Nov. last, on the subject of your claim to compensation for the loss of the Schooner Lord Nelson in 1812, having been forwarded to the Secretary of State lor the Colonies, I am directed by the Governor General to transmit for your inlbrmation the enclosed copy of the Des- patch which Hid Excellency has recently received in reply, from which it appeals that the Queen's advocate sees no reason to depart Irom his former opinion on the case. I have the honor to be. Sir, Your obedient Servant, T. W. C. MURDOCH, Chief Sreretary, Hon'ble JAMES CROOKS, West Flamborough, U. C. (copy) Downing Street, 7ih February, 1841. MY LORD: I have received your Lordship's Despatch, jN'o. 198 of the 30th November, inclosing the copy of a further letter from Mr. James Crooks, "rging his claims to the assistance of Her Majesty's Government, in obtaining con)pti)sation for the loss of his vessel " J^oid Nelson," which was seized by ti e Americans at the commencement of the war in 1812. Having communicated your despatch iind Mr. Crooks, letter to Viscount Palmerston, His Lordship has infoimed me that tlicy have been releired tor the consideration of the Queen's Advocate, who has repoited (hat "he does not see any thing in these papers, to induce Iulu to de|)art (lom his foinitr opinion on this case.'' You will have the goodness to express to jMr. Crooks my regret, that I am Uh.ible to return a more liivorable answer to his leprfsentalioii. (Signed) J. HUSSELL. 'iORD SVDENUAM ^0 )er, 184a the leceipt of fi's Advocate, lovernment ; Ilo Excellen- \f of State, in I's Advocate, Secretary. ireh,I84I, )ject of your 1812, having lected by the ,' of the Des- ich it appeals !r opinion on Secretary, lary, 1841. ih November, ;ing his claims npeiisation for nericans at the T to Viscount I'd It'll for the ; docs not see itv opinion on ret, that I am IJUSSELL. '.i