A DIALOGUE OR, DISCOURSE BETWIXT Two old acquaintance of contrary OPINIONS, UPON The way as they were Riding from Northampton near unto Holmby House, Concerning our present Government by Elders. By O.B. Printed for R.K. 1647. A Dialogue between Senior John of of the old house, and Thomas Potgun a young Presbyterian. Tho. Presbyterian. HOw now Malignant? what news hearest thou concerning the King? or when intends he to come to London, canst tell? Senior joh. I'faith I know not, for I think he likes the air where he is now, better than he likes the City air, especially since this last Spring. Tho. Pr. Your reason for't, pray sir? Sen. joh. Why, both in City and Suburbs strange Planers reigning, hath so encumbered London and Westminster with Elders, gowing faster than Rew, that they are almost crept into the Privy garden. Tho. Pr. Why, dare you speak against Elders? Senior joh. Yes, if they sproure up like so many thorns choking our Wheat, and again, such fruitless Trees ought not to cumber the ground. Tho. Pr. Do you not read of them in the Apostles times? Sen. joh. Yes, and in Susanna's time too. Tho. Pr. Oh, but you ought not to condemn all for two? Sen. joh. Neither ought you to censure so severely so many good ones for the misdemeanour of one. Tho. Pr. How mean you by that one? Sen. joh. Why, to enlighten your dull capacity, 'tis this, you vilify unjustly all our reverend and venerable Bishops, hating the title, and excluding all their labours, though never so learned, for the default of one, in this you do not imitate our Saviour, who despised not all his Disciples, though one were a Devil. Again, did you ever read of one Simonides, a Heathen, as Tertullian relateth in Liber 5. how the poor old man was so transported with joy, hearing how many good Bishops were at the translating of the Bible, wished himself a Christian, which by the persuasions of these good men, was accordingly before his death effected. Likewise Bishop Bailiff writ the Practice of Piety, but you regard not that. Th. Pr. Seriously I like this Discourse well, but what more can you say then for Bishops? Sen. joh. Or whither for one thistles sake you would imitate Samson's Foxes, carrying fire in your tails, burning up the good grain, and so if it were possible to publish your ignorance more visibly in the world then lately it hath been. Thus much for Bishops, now to our present govenment in esse. Tho. Pr. I, that favours well in my ears. Sen. joh And in my nose too like a Glyster-pipe. Tho. Pr. Well, I'll say no more to you, if you make a scoff of our Church government guided by Elders Sen. Io. Shall I define their pedigree of old, and where they first sprung up. Tho. pr. Prithee let me hear that? Sen. joh. My Author citys us sundry places of a Stygian Lake called by some styx, by others the dead sea, but by most the sink of sodom, situate for air so pleasantâ–ª that the poor Birds attempting to fly over it, in a swelling condition dropped down dread into it; and it is observed that part of the river Tiber runneth into it, where the pretty silver scaled fishes come wantonly swimming in, posting to their own destruction, and there died; on whose odoriferous banks grow two certain trees, the one bearing Apples as pleasant to the taste, as Elder to the smell, upon which accursed tree, it is said that judas hanged himself, a tree altogether unfit for any use but the fire. Tho. pr. Why sure 'tis an argument so hot, it cannot hold long? Sen. joh. No, especially if a second joshua gives charge to the Sun to remain in its fixed horizon or Sphere, whose ardent beams must needs exhale their sap from them, and so by consequence leave them in a very dry condition. Th. Pr. I must needs confess, there's an old Proverb for't, that is, the dryer they are, the fit to burn. Sen. joh. And again, if unhappy Phaiton should once more prvaile with his Father to guide the Chariot of the Sun for one day, and the unskilful Ladd o'erthrow it, and set the world on fire, who would be first consumed; the steadfast and sound hearted Oaks, or the rotten withered and instable Elders, I leave to any wise man's censure. Tho. Pr. You harp too much of this one string, when I met you first, I expected you would have acquainted me with some certain good news? Sen. joh. You with some certain good news, why 'tis too true? I tell you, I'll show you above a thousand old standers in London, to my grief, besides some hourly dying, but a many daily springing up, Heaven blast them in the bloom. Tho. pr. Bloome, now beshrew me, l'ad rather see a thousand Triple-crowned affected persons, with each man a little Bishop or two in's belly in Purgatory. Sen. joh. Well, well, seeing y'are possessed with such charitable thoughts, I'll have you to understand, that there is in some fence a Purgatory provided already for you, far nearer than the Popes Kitchin. Tho. pr. A Purgatory for us sir, your meaning in this, I beseech you? Sen. joh. Nay, for all your beseeching, we mean to do it. Tho. pr. Why, let me hear what you dare do? Sen. joh. Why, to clear and make a free passage against his Majesty's happy return to London, we do intent for to spare for no cost in employing of good store of workmen and labourers, with our own best assistance, to dig and root out all old shrubbed Elders, that lie as so many stumbling-blocks against the feet of weak consciences, and so convey them by Cart to Scotland yard, there to remain with the superstitious timber of the late erected Play house in White Hall, but this wood must lie in the posture of a very large Bonfire ready to welcome the King and his Nobles, at their arrival to London, and in this posture to remain till Authority shall give this last word of command, that is, Give fire. Tho. Pr. Once more, let me entreat you to fall upon some other discourse? Sen. joh. Why then briefly I'll recite you my Dream the other night. Tho. Pre. Let me hear it, so it be not two tedious? Se. joh. Me thoughts I saw in dead of silent night A Comet fixed in the azure skies, Like a victorious Champion armed so bright, Whose splendent view dazzled my weaker eyes. My meaning's this, me thoughts I saw our King Amidst his Peers, in Parliament to sit: I praised the Lord, that he did safely bring Our Sovereign home, whose mercies ne'er forget; But when I knew it but to be a Dream, I sighed, and wept, and so broke off my theme. FINIS.