A second letter concerning the Holy Trinity pursuant to the former from the same hand : occasioned by a letter there inserted from one unknown / by John Wallis. Wallis, John, 1616-1703. 1691 Approx. 15 KB of XML-encoded text transcribed from 7 1-bit group-IV TIFF page images. Text Creation Partnership, Ann Arbor, MI ; Oxford (UK) : 2004-08 (EEBO-TCP Phase 1). A67407 Wing W603 ESTC R12564 13801144 ocm 13801144 101938 This keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the Early English Books Online Text Creation Partnership. This Phase I text is available for reuse, according to the terms of Creative Commons 0 1.0 Universal . The text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. Early English books online. (EEBO-TCP ; phase 1, no. A67407) Transcribed from: (Early English Books Online ; image set 101938) Images scanned from microfilm: (Early English books, 1641-1700 ; 854:13) A second letter concerning the Holy Trinity pursuant to the former from the same hand : occasioned by a letter there inserted from one unknown / by John Wallis. Wallis, John, 1616-1703. W. J. [2], 10 p. Printed for Tho. Parkhurst ..., London : 1691. The text of a letter from W.J. to Wallis, with Wallis's reply. "I have, since yours, received ... a letter directed to me, subscribed W.J., but I know not from whom ..."--p. 2. Reproduction of original in Cambridge University Library. Created by converting TCP files to TEI P5 using tcp2tei.xsl, TEI @ Oxford. Re-processed by University of Nebraska-Lincoln and Northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. Gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. 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Copies of the texts have been issued variously as SGML (TCP schema; ASCII text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable XML (TCP schema; characters represented either as UTF-8 Unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless XML (TEI P5, characters represented either as UTF-8 Unicode or TEI g elements). Keying and markup guidelines are available at the Text Creation Partnership web site . eng Trinity -- Early works to 1800. 2004-04 TCP Assigned for keying and markup 2004-04 Apex CoVantage Keyed and coded from ProQuest page images 2004-05 Mona Logarbo Sampled and proofread 2004-05 Mona Logarbo Text and markup reviewed and edited 2004-07 pfs Batch review (QC) and XML conversion A SECOND LETTER Concerning the Holy Trinity . Pursuant to the former from the same Hand ; Occasioned by a LETTER ( There inserted ) from one unknown . By IOHN WALLIS . D. D. LONDON , Printed for Tho. Parkhurst at the Bible and Three Crowns in Cheapside near Mercers-Chapel . 1691. A SECOND LETTER Concerning the Sacred Trinity . SIR , I Understand by your Letter ( of Sept. 20. ) that you have printed a Letter of mine concerning the Trinity ; and have sent me some Copies of it to Oxford . But I am not there to receive them ; and so have yet seen none of them : ( But your Letter thither was sent me thence by the Post. ) I have , since yours , received ( by the same way ) a Letter directed to me , subscribed W. J. But I know not from whom . I suppose it is somebody in London , to whom you have presented a Book , for which he returns me thanks . That Letter to me was thus , ( with the Post-mark at London , SE. 23. from whence I supply the Date , which in the Letter was wanting ) For the Reverend Dr. Wallis , Professor of Geometry , at Oxford . SIR , I Received the Honour of your Letter ; and return you humble and hearty thanks for it . 'T is writ in my Opinion , in a Modest , Peaceable , and Christian Stile : And I wish it may please others as well as it doth me . I am afraid however , that it will not give satisfaction to the Scholastick Athanasian Trinitarian . For they are so particular , and withal so positive , in the explication of the greatest of Mysteries , as if they understood it as well as any Article of their Christian Faith. Your Explication of Personality , gives no distast to me , when you say ( page 3. ) They are distinguished by Personality : And , by Personality I mean , that distinction whereby they are distinguished . Yet I 'm afraid the High-flown School-Trinitarians will say , This is Trifling , and idem per idem . Though to me it hath this good Sense , That we know there is a Distinction betwixt them , which we call Personality ; but we can affix no Notion to this Personality , which is common to it with other Personalities , either Humane or Angelical ; and therefore we can only say , It is that distinction whereby the three Hypostases are distinguished . But you still use a greater Latitude , as to the Notion of these Persons , or Personalities , when you call them somewhats ( page 9. ) That , you say , which is pretended to be impossible by the Anti-Trinitarians , is only this , That there be three somewhats , which are but one God ; and these somewhats we commonly call Persons . This I take only to signifie , that the true Notion , and the true Name of that distinction is unknown to us , yet the distinction is certain . But the Deep-learned School-Trinitarians , who decide all things to an Hairs breadth , will , I imagine , ridicule this Expression . A late Learned and Ingenious Author , you know , hath gone much further in his determinations about this point . He makes your three somewhats , not only three Persons , but three Substantial beings , ( page 47. ) and three Infinite Minds , ( page 66. ) And the contrary , he says , is both Heresie and Non-sense . Three Infinite Minds , is the same as three Infinite Spirits . And , by Infinite , the Author understands here , not Infinite in Extension , but in Perfection . So that the three Hypostases are three Spirits , whereof each is Infinite in Perfection . Then , saith the Anti-Trinitarian , they are three Gods. For what better Notion , or what better Definition , have we of God , than that he is A Spirit Infinitely Perfect . And , if there be three such , there are three Gods. In like manner , three Substantial Beings really distinct , are three Substances really distinct . And if each of these Substances be endued with Infinite Perfection , it will be hard to keep them from being three Gods. We do not well know what particular Explication of the Trinity those Persons gave , whom the Ancients call Tritheites . But this we know , that the great offence which is taken at the Christian Doctrine of the Trinity , by the Iews and Mahometans , is , from the appearance of Polytheism in that Doctrine . Which appearance , methinks , is rather increased than lessened by this Explication : And , consequently , the scandal which ( to them ) follows upon it . But the Learned Author hath an expedient to prevent Polytheism , notwithstanding the real distinction of his three Infinite Spirits . Which is , by making them mutually conscious of one anothers Thoughts and Actions : whereby , he says , they would be so united , as to make but one God. That , methinks , doth not follow , That upon this mutual consciousness they would be but One God. That which follows is this , That they would be three Gods mutually conscious . For there is no reason why this mutual consciousness should make their Godhead cease , if without this they would be three distinct Gods. No Union amounts to Identity . It came in my way to mind you of this more punctual and demonstrative Explication of the Trinity , as it 's said to be , that you might not expect that every one should be of your Mind , nor approve of your Modesty as I do . Your Similitude and Comparisons , are as just as the Nature of the Subject will admit . The great defect of the First , seems to be this ; That it cannot be said of any one Dimension , that it is a Cube , or a Body : Whereas it is said of every Person , that he is God. Your Second Comparison interferes again with the Learned Author above-mentioned . For he says , ( page 72. ) 'T is a mistake to think that Knowledge and Power , even in Men , is not the same thing ; whereas you suppose them distinct , and , upon that , ground your Similitude . I cannot but be of your Mind in this particular also . For Power belongs to the * Will , and Knowledge to the Understanding . And 't is plain , that we know many things that we cannot do : And , on the contrary , we can do many things , and know not how they are done . It may be the Ingenious Author would be hard put to it to tell us how he pronounces his own Name ; that is , what Organs of Speech are moved , and how ; by what Museles and Nerves ; and what the whole Action is that intervenes betwixt the inward Thought and the outward Sound ; or betwixt the first Cause and the last Effect . Or , if he be so good an Anatomist and Philosopher as to understand all this , at least his little Son , or little Daughter , who can pronounce the same as well as himself , know not in what manner , or by what means they do it . So , Fools and Children can move their Hands , Fingers , and all the Members of the Body , as well as Philosophers : Though they do do not know , in what Method , or by what Mechanism , they are moved . These things are the Effects of Will , independently on Knowledge . And 't is as plain , on the other hand , that we know how many things are to be done , which yet we cannot do , for want of Strength or Force . I can lift a Weight of two or three hundred pounds , but I cannot lift one of five or six hundred ; though I understand as well how the one is moved as the other . And a brawny Porter shall raise that of five or six hundred , though he understand Staticks less than I do . I can bend a Stick , but cannot bend a Bar of Iron : Though I use just the same Method , and understand as much how the one is done as the other . And innumerable Instances of like nature shew , Knowledge and Force to be different things . But this , Sir , I say only in your defence . Your Conclusion also agrees very well to my Sense . And I think them exceedingly to blame , that presume to measure these Infinite Natures , and all their Properties , by our narrow Understandings . The Anti-Trinitarians generally are no great Philosophers , yet they take upon them as if they were the only Masters of Reason : And in the most Sublime and Mysterious Points , will scarce allow Revelation to be of greater Authority than their Judgment . But however , on the other hand , ( though I never felt any Inclination or Temptation to Socinian Doctrines , yet ) I cannot heartily join with you in the Damnatory Sentences ; neither would I have us Spin Creeds , like Cobwebs , out of our own Bowels . In the Name of God , let us be content with what is revealed to us in Scripture concerning these Mysteries ; and leave the rest to make part of our Heaven , and future Happiness . To strain things to these heights , makes still more Divisions in the Church . We that now have School-Trinitarians , and Scripture-Trinitarians ; and either of them will have their Plea , and pursue their Interest ; till , by Zeal for Opinions which are disputable , we have destroyed Christian Charity and Unity , which are indispensable Vertues and Duties . I am , Sir , with Sincerity and Respect , London , Sept. 23. 1690. Your obliged humble Servant , W. I. If you know from whom it is , pray thank him from me for his Civilities therein . And you may please to tell him , that he doth understand me aright , and puts a true sense upon my words : By Personality , I mean that distinction ( whatever it be ) whereby the Three are distinguished ; but , what that is , I do not pretend to determine . And if I should guess ( for it will be but Guessing ) how it may be ; I should not be positive , that just so it is . ( Upon the same account , that it is not thought prudent in a Siege , to inlarge the Line of Defence too far . ) There is a Distinction ( this we are sure of ) between the Three : This Distinction I call Personality : And by this word I mean that Distinction , whatever it be : But , what this Distinction is ( or what degree of Distinction ) I cannot well tell . If this be Trifling , I cannot help it , ( nor , if they please to ridicule it : ) But , to me , it seems to be good sense . If others will venture to determine it more nicely than I have done ; they perhaps may understand it more distinctly than I pretend to do ; but will give me leave to be ignorant ( therein ) of what the Scripture doth not tell me . Of the Damnatory Sentences ( as he calls them ) I had said nothing . Nor do I think , that the Author of the Athanasian Creed did intend them in that Rigour that some would put upon them . And , if it be well considered how there they stand , he will find them annexed ( at least so they seem to me ) only to some Generals which he thought necessary , ( as , That we ought to hold the Catholick Faith , That the Trinity in Unity is to be Worshiped ; That the Son of God was Incarnate ; ) not to every Punctilio in his Explications . Which are but as a Comment on these Generals , how he thought they were to be understood , or might be explained . Which Explications I take to be True , and Good ; but not within the purview of those Clauses : And that a man may be saved ( even in the judgment of that Author ) who doth not know , or doth not fully understand , some of them . His true meaning therein , seems to me to be but this ; That the Doctrine therein delivered ( concerning the Trinity , and the Incarnation of Christ , ) is the sound Orthodox Doctrine ; and such as ( for the substance of it ) ought to be believed by those who expect Salvation by Christ. Certainly his meaning never was , that Children , and Idiots , and all who do not understand the School-terms , or perhaps have never heard them , should be therefore denied Salvation . As to what he objects to me , That it cannot be said of any one Dimension , that it is a Cube , or a Body ; whereas it is said of every Person , that he is God : He might observe , that I had already obviated this Objection . For though we cannot say ( in the Abstract ) that length is a Cube , ( and so of the rest ; ) yet ( in the Concrete ) this Long thing ( or this which is Long ) is a Cube ; and so , this which is Broad , or this which is High , is a Cube : Iust so ; we do not say ( in the Abstract ) that Paternity is God ; but ( in the Concrete ) the Father is God ; ( and so of the other Persons . ) The Personality is not said to be God , but the Person is . Which fully answers that exception . What he cites of a Learned Author falls not within the compass of what I undertook to defend ; ( and that learned Person will excuse me , if I do not pretend to understand all his Notions ; and leave it to him to explain himself . ) But what I have endeavoured to defend , is as much ( I think ) as we need to maintain in this point . Where that Author calls it a Mistake to think that Knowledge and Power ( in the same Man ) are not the same thing : I suppose ( not having the Book at hand ) he means no more but this ; That though they differ indeed ( to use the School-language ) ex parte rei , yet not ut res & res , but rather ut modus & modus ; that is , not as two Things , but as two Modes of the same thing . And if he should say the like of Length , Breadth , and Thickness ; I would not contend about it : For , even so , it will serve my Similitude well enough . If that of the three Persons be more than so : It is then ( I think ) such a Distinction as to which ( in our Metaphysicks ) we have not yet given a Name . But of this , I determine nothing ( because I would not spin the Thread too fine : ) And content my self to say , It is that of the three Personalities in one Deity ; without determining , How great that is . And I may the rather be allowed thus to forbear ; Because I find , even in matters of ordinary Conversation ( such as those but now mention'd ) the School men are not well agreed , what things shall be said to differ ut res & res , and what only ex parte rei . Much more therefore may I be allowed a like latitude of thought in the present case . I add no more but that I am Yours , John Wallis . Soundess , Sept. 27. 1690. FINIS . Notes, typically marginal, from the original text Notes for div A67407-e140 Dr. Sherlock . * I should rather say , To the Executive Faculty ; or , Power of Doing .