A fifth letter, concerning the sacred Trinity in answer to what is entituled, the Arians vindication of himself against Dr. Wallis's fourth letter on the Trinity / by John Wallis ... Wallis, John, 1616-1703. 1691 Approx. 31 KB of XML-encoded text transcribed from 13 1-bit group-IV TIFF page images. Text Creation Partnership, Ann Arbor, MI ; Oxford (UK) : 2004-08 (EEBO-TCP Phase 1). A67389 Wing W582 ESTC R18175 12212195 ocm 12212195 56328 This keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the Early English Books Online Text Creation Partnership. This Phase I text is available for reuse, according to the terms of Creative Commons 0 1.0 Universal . The text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. Early English books online. (EEBO-TCP ; phase 1, no. A67389) Transcribed from: (Early English Books Online ; image set 56328) Images scanned from microfilm: (Early English books, 1641-1700 ; 904:17) A fifth letter, concerning the sacred Trinity in answer to what is entituled, the Arians vindication of himself against Dr. Wallis's fourth letter on the Trinity / by John Wallis ... Wallis, John, 1616-1703. [2], 21, [1] p. Printed for Tho. Parkhurst ..., London : 1691. Reproduction of original in Huntington Library. Advertisement: p. [1] at end. Created by converting TCP files to TEI P5 using tcp2tei.xsl, TEI @ Oxford. Re-processed by University of Nebraska-Lincoln and Northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. Gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. 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Copies of the texts have been issued variously as SGML (TCP schema; ASCII text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable XML (TCP schema; characters represented either as UTF-8 Unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless XML (TEI P5, characters represented either as UTF-8 Unicode or TEI g elements). Keying and markup guidelines are available at the Text Creation Partnership web site . eng Freke, William, 1662-1744. -- Arians vindication of himself against Dr. Wallis's fourth letter on the Trinity. Trinity -- Early works to 1800. 2004-04 TCP Assigned for keying and markup 2004-04 Apex CoVantage Keyed and coded from ProQuest page images 2004-05 Olivia Bottum Sampled and proofread 2004-05 Olivia Bottum Text and markup reviewed and edited 2004-07 pfs Batch review (QC) and XML conversion A Fifth LETTER , Concerning the Sacred Trinity ; IN ANSWER To what is Entituled , The Arians Vindication of himself against D r Wallis's Fourth Letter ON THE TRINITY . By IOHN WALLIS , D. D. LONDON : Printed for Tho. Parkhurst , at the Bible and Three Crowns , in Cheapside , 1691. A FIFTH LETTER Concerning the Sacred Trinity . SIR , I Have met with an Answer to my Fourth Letter . It is not Long , and my Reply shall be but short . There is very little in it concerning the Merits of the Cause , ( save that he resolves to hold the Conclusion : ) and as to Personal Reflections , or Disdainful Expressions , I do not think fit to trouble the Reader with a long Reply . For those , I think , do not hurt me so much , as him that useth them . He is not pleased , pag. 1. that I said , I had Argued Calmly , without Scurrillous Language , or Reproachful Terms . And I appeal to the Reader , whether it be not so . Nor doth he deny it . And if his Language were so too , he needed not to have made the Reader an Apology , to excuse his Expressions , that he might avoid the Character of a Common Railer , p. 1. But , he says , Abating the little Subtilties and Artifices , incomparably witty , there is not the least Grain of weight in my Letter . Of this the Reader is to be Judge , both as to the Weight , and as to the Wit. He says , It seems , a Socinian wrote against me . ( True. And it seems he knew it : For he cites him . ) And that himself wrote as an Arian . I think he should rather have said , He wrote , first as a Socinian ( in his first Ten pages , ) and then as an Arian , ( in the other Ten. ) For I do not find any thing , till toward the end of his Tenth page , whereby I could judge him other than a direct Socinian . And I think it will so appear to any other Reader . He takes to himself the name of Unitarian ; by which I do not find the Arians were wont to be called . But it is a new Name which the Socinians have taken up , to distinguish themselves both from Us , and from the Arians . For the Arians are rather Pluritarians , as holding more Gods than One. And the Book to which himself refers us , p. 4. is intituled , The History of the Unitarians , otherwise called Socinians . And , in p. 11. where he first mentions the Arians , he doth introduce it with a Preface , minding me , that I write against Arians as well as Socinians : As having , till then , spoke for the Socinians only , not for the Arians . And even in his tenth page , ( toward the beginning of it ) what had been said of the Socinians by name , and of Socinus in particular , he takes to himself , as if one of that Party . He seems ( saith he of me ) to insinuate an aspersion on US , that WE believe not Angels . He tells us now , p. 3. He doth believe them ; and I will suppose also , that he doth believe the Soul's Immortality . But , when he there says , that I bring a World of Arguments to prove the Immortality of the Soul ; he mistakes again . For those Arguments were brought against Socinus , not to prove the Soul's Immortality ; but , that the Soul , in its separate condition , was capable of Pain or Pleasure : which Socinus denied . For requital to this , he tells me , he had a good mind to prove the Existence of a Deity , for that he had heard of some men of the Profession of the Church of England , that have almost been Atheists at the heart . And truly if he should do so , I should not think it much amiss : For I have heard , the same suspected of some Socinians . He now tells me , p. 2. He never was a Socinian in his Life . Of what he had been in the former part of his Life , I had said nothing . ( For I knew no more what it was , than who he is . ) But ( p. 37. ) of what he was in the beginning of his Discourse . And 't is plain he there writes like a direct Socinian ( as was shewed but now , ) though as an Arian some time after . He tells me ( p. 2. ) that he is neither the Socinian , nor his Friend , who assisted in his first Book . Neither did I say , that he is : but , that he might be for ought I knew . But whether he be or not , 't is the same thing to me ; for I am yet to fight in the dark with I know not whom . He says , He is not concerned to defend Socinus , or any man who hath dropt imprudent words . Nor did I require it of him . And , whether he were , or were not the same man who wrote before ; yet , since here he acts another Person , I left it free for him ( p. 1 , 2. ) to decline , if he pleased , what was said before ; to grant what was there denied , or deny what was there granted . But then , he thinks , p. 1. I should not charge him with writing Contradictions , because such things may possibly be found in the others Answer . Nor do I. ( This is only a piece of his wonted Artifice of Mis-reciting me . ) I tell him indeed , it is hard to please them both , when they do not agree amongst themselves ? And I did observe , ( and argue from it ) what he grants , though the other had denied it . But I never charge him with what the other had said . And ( if he look it over again ) he will find , that I did not confront him ( to shew thence a contradiction ) with what the other had said : But did confront what himself had said in his ten first pages , with what he says in the other ten . And 't is manifest , that in the first ten , he acts the Socinian ; and in the latter ten , the Arian . But , in whether of the twain he acts his own part , it was not easie to determine ; till he now tells us , he is an Arian . He had argued , p. 8 , 14. That the Trinity are Persons , as really , and as properly , and fully personally distinct , as Three Angels . And each Person ( both Son and Holy-Ghost by name ) compleat and intire in himself , with as compleat Personal distinction as that in Men and Angels . From whence when I inferred his owning the Personality of the Holy-Ghost : He fearing , it seems , he had over-shot himself , now tells us , p. 4. just as much as becomes on Arian . But if he own him to be as much a Person , as a Man , or Angel is a Person : it is as much , or perhaps more , than we need contend for in this point . I had charged him also with mis-reciting me in many other things . As when I am introduced ( very often ) as talking of Two Gods , Three Gods , Personal Gods , of adding several Persons to our one God , and the like ; ( according as here also , he says , p. 7. that I say , you your self own Two Gods , and why may not I then Three ? ) when he knows very well , this is not my Language ; nor is any thing of all this said by me . To this he now says , p. 5. 'T is true enough he doth so ; but that he doth it by Inference . But he should then speak it as his Inference , not cite it as my words . I might have taken notice ( amongst a great many gross mistakes , ) that where I had mentioned , the Lords and Commons of England , declaring the Prince of Orange , to be King of England , France and Ireland ; he mis-recites it , p. 4. King of England , Scotland , and France ; as if the Parliament of England , had taken upon them to dispose of the Kingdom of Scotland , and not that of Ireland . But of this , and a many more , I passed over , without reflecting on it . Because , in his Language , he is so very negligent and careless , ( and otherwise obnotions ) that it were endless to reflect on all . But I was obliged to take notice ( because it quite alters my Argument ) of what he says , p. 4. that I say , Three sides make one Cube , &c. which is neither true , nor are they my words . I argued not from three sides , but from the three Dimensions of a Cube . This he calls Trifling ; and would perswade us that side and dimension , differ no more than Muting and — his other word , which is fitter for his mouth than mine . But though he perhaps know-no difference between them ; yet he should not have cited it as my words ( and say , that I say so , when I did not . ) For I ought to know better ; and that a Cube hath six sides , though but Three Dimensions . Nor did I argue from the six sides , but from the Three Dimensions . Yet I can forgive him this ( rather than when he doth it willfully ) though it mis-recite my Argument : Because I believe it to be out of pure Ignorance , not of Malice . He doth not like , p. 6. either This , or any other Simile's ; and would have me no more to insist upon them . ( But he must excuse me from taking his advice herein , unless he understood it better , than , by what was now said , he seems to do . ) Because , if he be not mistaken ( as I think he is ) they are very far from my purpose . That is , He thinks , they do not prove the Trinity . True : These , alone , do not prove it ( nor was it intended they should . ) But they prove ( what they were brought to prove ) that it is not a Contradiction , or Inconsistent with Reason , that there may be three somewhats ( which we call Persons ) that are but one God. And thus much he had before granted , and doth now again confirm it , p. 3 , 4. 'T is true indeed ( he says ) I cannot say that there is a Contradiction in holding that there may be three Persons in God. For , saith he , There be two sorts of Contradictions ; The one Express , the other Implyed . I cannot say , there is a Contradiction in holding it : Because I have not the Definition of the word God so exact , as to raise an implied contradiction : And , for an express contradiction , I do not pretend to it . If therefore there be no Contradiction , either Express , or Implied : It is what I was to prove . But , saith he , The dispute shall not end here . He will be allowed the Privilege ( and no body doth deny it him , ) to fetch in the First Commandment , to define the word God. With all my heart . I was never against it . ( For what he says , more than once , p. 3 , 4. that I meanly cry , he flies to Scripture , is but another piece of his wonted Art of mis-reciting . There is nothing to that purpose in any thing of mine . ) I do sometime blame him for changing the state of the Question : As , when he would have me prove by Reason , that It is so : I tell him , That is not the Question , ( nor is that to be proved by Reason : ) The Question is , whether there is any thing in Reason , why it cannot be so . Now , let him keep to the Question ; and then , if he think he can prove , from Scripture , that it is Inconsistent with Reason , for Three somewhats to be One God ; or , that it is a Contradiction , for God the Creator , and God the Redeemer , and God the Sanctifier , to be the same God ; or , that it is Impossible for the God of Abraham , and the God of Isaac , and the God of Iacob , to be One and the same God : Let him try his skill . And , let him make what use he can of the First Commandment , to Define the word God , so as to prove this a Contradiction . But , when he had claimed this Privilege , ( and no body doth deny it ) He makes no use of it for any such Definition . The truth is , I had already granted him , from that Commandment , ( p. 23 , 24 , 25 , 28 , 29. ) more than he was willing I should grant : That we are to have NO OTHER GOD ( Great or Little , Equal or Unequal , ) but the Lord God of Israel . Yes , says he ; There is one Supreme God , another Creature-God ; But that this is not to have Two Personal Gods. How so ? If these be Two Gods , and each of them a Person , ( compleat and entire of himself ; as really , and properly , and fully , and personally distinct , as a Man or Angel , as he had before told us at p. 8. 14. ) they must needs be Two Personal Gods. But we , according to the First Commandment , acknowledge but One God ; and those three somewhats ( whom in a metaphorical sense we call Persons ) not so to be distinct as to become Three Gods. He hopes however to avoid the First Commandment , by saying that , though they be Two Gods , they are not two Gods Co-equal , p. 5. and that they worship the Son , not : with supreme Worship ; with Mediation , not Adoration , p. 6. What he means by his two Worships ; of Mediation , and Adoration ; I do not well understand : unless they be new Names for Doulia and Latria . Nor do I remember , that I have before heard of a worship of Mediation . That Christ is our Mediator , I know ; but did not know that he is our Worshipper . And what doth he think of the Israelites , when they Worshipped the Golden Calf ? Surely they did not think this Calf to be Co-equal with the Supreme God. Nor did they think it to be ( Deus natus ) a God by Nature ; but ( Deus factus ) a Made God : ( for themselves had made it , just before : ) Yet I never knew , that this did excuse them from Idolatry . He doth not own Christ to be the True God , ( for such there is but One , the only true God , ) nor yet a false God ; but a Mean between both , p. 6. Now 't is true , the Heathen had ( their Deos medioxumos ) their Middling Gods : But I never knew that we could worship such , without Idolatry . Thou shalt Worship the Lord thy God ( the Supreme God ) and Him ONLY shalt thou serve , was our Saviour's Doctrine , Mat. 4. 10. And St. Iohn expresly calls him the True God , 1 Joh. 8. 20. ( not a Middling God , between True and False ) and therefore the same God with the Father , the Only true God. To that Character of Christ , Rev. 1. 8 , 11. I am Alpha and Omega , the beginning and the end , ( the First and the Last ) saith the Lord , which IS and WAS and is TO COME , the Almighty . He says , This stile is given him in opposition to Gods simpler one , I AM. But he should have observed , that the same title is , at ver . 4. given to God , in Contradistinction to Christ , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , &c. And if it were there a Character of the Supreme God , it is so here . And if he think the simpler term 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , I AM , to be more expressive of the Supreme God ; we have that also Emphatically given to Christ , Rom. 9. 5. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , He which IS , or the Being , over all ; the Supreme Being . To what further I had brought , p. 30 , 31 , 32 , 33. to prove him to be the Supreme God , the same God with the Father , ( not a Middling , or Titular God , ) he makes no Reply : which therefore stands as it was ; nor need I repeat it , because it may be read there . And it is so full and clear , that I need add no more to it . To what I had said of Ioh. 17. 3. To know Thee ( not Thee Only , or Only Thee , ) the Only True God. He saith , He hath Answered already . And I have already Replied ; nor need I repeat it . Their Argument from thence is just in this form : The God of Abraham is the only true God ; therefore , not the God of Isaac , or the God of Iacob . Yes , say I , the God of Isaac , and the God of Israel , is the same God , but under another consideration . So here ; God the Creator ( or God the Father ) is the Only true God ; therefore not God the Redeemer , nor God the Sanctifier . Yes ; God the Redeemer , and God the Sanctifier , is the same God , the only true God. In like manner , Ier. 16. 14 , 15. It shall no more be said , The Lord liveth that brought up the Children of Israel out of the land of Egypt ; But , The Lord liveth , that brought up the Children of Israel out of the North Country . Now , saith the First Commandment , I am the Lord thy God , which brought thee out of the land of Egypt ; Thou shalt have No Other God but Me : Therefore not the God which brought them out of the North Country . Yes , say I , even this God also . Which is not another God ; but the same God ; though considered as the Author of another Benefit . There be many other things , both in his first and second Paper ( his Answer and his Vindication ) which lie very open to be Reflected on , if it were worth the while : But I think , I have said enough already ; and , he thinks , too much , ( that I have been too stiff , too hard with him , p. 8. ) which things I shall therefore omit , to save my self , and the Reader , the labour . But three things he calls me to account for omitting ; His Reproof of my false Idea of the Personality of God , the Impossibility and Blasphemy of his Incarnation , and of the Death of God , p. 8. Now when I had proved the things to be True ; I thought that had been a sufficient Answer , to his calling them False , Impossible , and Blasphemous . For they are never the more so , for his calling them so . And I know not what further Answer he should expect , unless he would have me say , 'T is foul-mouthed Blasphemy in him , to call it Blasphemy . But if I should answer him all along at this rate , according as his language deserves ; we should , instead of Disputing fall to right down Railing ; which is the Character he was afraid of , pag. 1. However ( to gratify him once more , ) That by the Word , Joh. 1. is meant , Christ , himself owns : and , That this Word was God from the beginning ; That he made the World , and all things ; and that without him was not any thing made which was made ; ( and therefore , say I , Himself was not made ; unless our Arian would have us think , He made Himself ) That this God , is the Supreme God , we have proved at large , ( if he deny it to be proved , we must leave it to the Reader to judge of the Arguments : ) and this Word was made Flesh. ( I hope I need not tell him , that to be made Flesh , and to be Incarnate , is all one ; for every one understands this who know that Caro carnis is Latin for Flesh. ) Therefore this is no Blasphemy . Again ; That God in Christ suffered and died ; and that we are Redeemed by the Blood of God , he had before told us , p. 13 , 14. That this is the True God , we have proved at large ( as was but now said ; ) Therefore the Death of God ( that is , of him that was God as well as Man , ) is no Blasphemy . Yet again ; I do not take his Reproof ( as he calls it ) to be a Proof , that my Idea of Personality is False . And therefore I did not think it deserved an Answer ; having proved the thing before . Yet I thought I had Answered it ( as much as it need to be answered ) when ( at my pag. 36. ) I told him ( nor doth he deny it ) that he seemed well pleased at his p. 20. that I owned the word Person to be but Metaphorical ; though at his p. 7. ( which is the Reproof he means ) he did not like it . For tid after pag. 7. he acted the Socinian , and did not come to act the Arian , till afterward ; and then he seemed , at p. 20. to like it well enough . I shall yet add somewhat more upon that point , which if it may not satisfy him , ( who seems to intimate p. 8. that he will not be satisfied , ) may give some further satisfaction to the Reader . The word Person ( persona ) is originally a Latin word ; and doth not properly signify a Man ( so as that another person must needs imply another Man , ) for then the word Homo would have served , and they needed not have taken in the word Persona : But rather , one so Circumstantiated . And the same Man , if considered in other Circumstances ( considerably different , ) is reputed another Person . And that this is the true notion of the word Person , appears by those noted Phrases , personam induere , personam deponere , personam agere , personam sustinere , sustineo unus tres personas , and many the like in approved Latin Authors . Thus the same Man may at once sustain the Person of a King and of a Father ; if he be invested both with Regal and Paternal Authority . Now because the King , and the Father , are for the most part not only different Persons but different Men also ( and the like in other cases ) hence it comes to pass , that another Person is sometimes supposed to imply another Man : but not always , nor is that the proper sense of the word . It is Englished in our Dictionaries , by the state , quality , or condition , whereby one Man differs from another : and so , as the Condition alters , the Person alters , though the Man be the same . Our School-men of later Ages , do sometimes apply the word Persona to Angels as well as Men ; but even that is but Metaphorical ; nor do I find that it ever was so used , in approved Latin Authors , either for Angels , Genii , or their Heathen Gods ; but for the different state or condition of Men only . Now when the same Man doth thus sustain two Persons , as that of a King , and that of a Father ; he may as to one thing act as a King , by his Regal Authority ; as to another thing as a Father , by his Paternal Authority . And these Authorities , may be in subordination one to the other , though the Man be the same . And what is done in either capacity , may indifferently be said to be done by the Man , or by the King : ( as that David , or the King , pardoned Absolom ; ) and in like manner , by the Man , or by the Father . This being the true and proper notion of the word Person , we are next to consider what it is to signify in the present case . Where we are to consider , that the word Person is not applied in Scripture to these three so called : It is not there said , These three Persons are one , but only These three are one . 'T is but the Church's usage that gives to these three somewhats , the name of Persons . And therefore our Arian was much mistaken , when he tells us , p. 20. that the word Person is the Hinge of the Controversy . The Hinge of the Controversy , is that notion concerning these three somewhats , which the Fathers ( who first used it ) did intend to design by the name Person . So that we are not from the word Person to determine what was that Notion ; but , from that Notion which they would express , to determine in what sense the word Person is here used . And if the word Person do not well fit that sense ; all that can be thence inferred , is no more , but that they have made use of an Unfit Name to express their Notion . It is no more but as if a Cruel Pope take the name of Clement ; or a wicked one the name of Pius ; or if a Man be named Willson , whose Father's name was Thomas . And in all such cases , certitudo Rei tollit errorem Nominis . And if we know who is the Man designed by such a Name , 't is a Ridiculous exception , to say , This is not the Man , because that Name doth well agree with his Nature . Now Two of these Three being represented in Scripture , as Father and Son ; and this Father said to Beget the Son , and all these in a sense metaphorical ; ( not in such sense as those words do properly signifie amongst Men ; ) they thought it not unfit ( in continuation of the same Metaphor ) to call them Persons . Because as the word Person doth properly agree to the relations of Father and Son in a proper sense ; so doth the word Person in a metaphorical sense , to the Father and Son so taken metaphorically ; and the word Beget , by a like Metaphor . When therefore it is certain , that the Notion which the Ancient Fathers had concerning these Three , which in a metaphorical sense they called Person , was this , That there is a Distinction between them , greater than that of the Divine Attributes , but not so great as to make them Three Gods : it is manifest that they took the Metaphor , not from that abusive sense of the word Person , when ( amongst us ) it is put for Man ; but from that proper sense of the word Persona , wherein it signifies the State , Condition , Office , or Relation of a Man , as variously circumstantiated with reference to others ; whereof the same Man may sustain more than One. As when David , was the Son of Iesse , the Father of Solomon , and the King of Israel . So if we say of any , that he is a Person of Honour , a Person of Worth , and a Person of Interest : That same Man may be all this , without becoming Three Men. Now this our Arian may call this ( if he please ) a Quirk , a Criticism , an undermining the very Idea of the word Person , as he did in his , p. 7 , 15 , 17. ( or may neglect it , if he pleases : ) But the sober Reader ( who understands it better ) will have better thoughts of it . And therefore I shall not take his advice , p. 7 , 8. to say that God is the name of an Office , that so he might know how to attack me , ( as he says , ) which while I talk so warily , he knows not how to do . I say , God is the name of the Nature ; but if he will have Christ to be the name of an Office ( the Mediatory Office , ) and the Comforter , or even the Creator , the Redeemer , the Sanctifier , to be names of Work or Office , it will not be much amiss . Now , when I had said this Doctrine of ours is as old at least as the New Testament , ( because I can prove it from thence ; ) he will have it ( p. 5. ) no older than the disputes of Alexander and Athanasius ; which the Primitive Church knew nothing of . But he barrs Quotations all along . And therefore I must not prove it ( to be known to the Church before that time , ) but leave it to the Judgment of Readers versed in Church-History , whose word must pass in this case ; his or mine . To his Question , p. 6. Did the Iews ever hear of it before Christianity ? I think they had some Intimations of it , as they had of the Resurrection : But not so clearly ( either of them ) as to be generally understood of all ; nor so fully as in the New Testament . And I think it was from those notices of it amongst the Jews , that not only Plato derived much of his Philosophy , but other Heathens also much of their Mythology ; though they did much disguise , and sometimes Ridicule the notices they had thence , as our Arian now doth that of the Trinity . But this is not the business now before us . Toward the close , he is so kind as not to desire Arianism to be imposed on others , any more than Trinitarianism on him , p. 8. But neither is this business before us ; who are but Disputants , not Law-makers . But so constant he means to be to his cause , that he will be content to be perswaded out of his Name with his Opinion . ( I think there is reason why he should change his Opinion , but as to the changing of his Name , he may use his discretion . ) But having said much ( that he might not be thought to desert it ) he thinks it advisable to drop the cause . Which he may , if he please , and leave it to the Reader to judge of what is said . I conclude as he doth ; It is impossible but offences will come ; but wo unto him through whom they come . It were better for him that a Mill-stone , &c. Febr. 14. 1690 / 1. Yours , &c. I. Wallis . Advertisement . THE Life of Faith , in Two Sermons to the University of Oxford , at St. Mary's Christ-Church , Oxford ; On Ianuary 6. 168frac34 ; , and Iune 29. following : By the same Author , Dr. Iohn Wallis . Sold by Tho. Parkhurst at the Bible and Three Crowns in Cheapside .