The case and trial of Capt. Robert Norwood, now prisoner in New-gate, truely and impartially stated, and published for satisfaction of my allied friends, and very many others desirous thereof. Together with some observations upon the law and its professors, very worthy a most serious consideration. Both which, (with a brief answer, by way of postscript, to a secret calumny charged upon me) are here presented to the view and judgement of the whole nation: which, if duly considered, with the shrot [sic] discourse annexed, will clearly discover where England's death and life lies. Norwood, Robert, Captain. This text is an enriched version of the TCP digital transcription A70679 of text R25970 in the English Short Title Catalog (Wing N1380A). Textual changes and metadata enrichments aim at making the text more computationally tractable, easier to read, and suitable for network-based collaborative curation by amateur and professional end users from many walks of life. 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Early English books online. (EEBO-TCP ; phase 1, no. A70679) Transcribed from: (Early English Books Online ; image set 39446) Images scanned from microfilm: (Early English books, 1641-1700 ; 1304:15, 1766:13) The case and trial of Capt. Robert Norwood, now prisoner in New-gate, truely and impartially stated, and published for satisfaction of my allied friends, and very many others desirous thereof. Together with some observations upon the law and its professors, very worthy a most serious consideration. Both which, (with a brief answer, by way of postscript, to a secret calumny charged upon me) are here presented to the view and judgement of the whole nation: which, if duly considered, with the shrot [sic] discourse annexed, will clearly discover where England's death and life lies. Norwood, Robert, Captain. 24 p. s.n., [London : 1652] Signed at end: Robert Norwood. Caption title. Imprint from Wing. Item at 1304:15 identified as Wing C851; number cancelled in Wing (2nd ed.). Reproductions of the originals in the Harvard University Library and the Henry E. Huntington Library and Art Gallery. eng Trials (Heresy) -- England -- Early works to 1800. A70679 R25970 (Wing N1380A). civilwar no The case and trial of Capt. Robert Norwood, now prisoner in New-gate, truely and impartially stated, and published for satisfaction of my al Norwood, Robert, Captain 1652 10939 1 0 0 0 0 0 1 B The rate of 1 defects per 10,000 words puts this text in the B category of texts with fewer than 10 defects per 10,000 words. 2006-01 TCP Assigned for keying and markup 2006-02 Apex CoVantage Keyed and coded from ProQuest page images 2007-02 Taryn Hakala Sampled and proofread 2007-02 Taryn Hakala Text and markup reviewed and edited 2008-02 pfs Batch review (QC) and XML conversion The CASE and TRIAL of Capt. ROBERT NORWOOD , now prisoner in New-gate , truely and impartially stated , and published for satisfaction of my allied friends , and very many others desirous thereof . Together with some Observations upon the Law and its Professors , very worthy a most serious consideration . Both which , ( with a brief Answer , by way of Postscript , to a secret Calumny charged upon me ) are here presented to the view and judgement of the whole Nation : Which , if duly considered , with the shrot Discourse annexed , will clearly discover where England's Death and Life lies . IN March last , some Gentlemen with whom I had formerly held society , coming to my house to speak with me , did declare that they heard or understood of some erroneous Opinions which I should hold , and speak forth to the people ; at which they seemed to be offended . Whereupon , I told them I was not ashamed , but should be ready to give an account , not onely of my Faith , but of my Life and Conversation also , in Westminster-Hall , or at Pauls Cross , to themselvs , or any other Gentlemen who should reasonably , upon a fair and just account , desire the same . Some time after that , I was desired to give them a meeting at Ab-Church London ; which ( as to so many pri 〈…〉 e and particular Gentlemen ) I promised I would ; and accordingly did . And lest there should be any mistakes misapprehensions , or misconstructions of words , but that it might stand to be tried and examined by all men ; I put it in writing read it publikely to the whole Assembly , and then gave it them , with my Hand subscribed thereto : unto which was annexed some Queries , whereunto I desired an Answer in writing from M. Shidrack Simpson their called-Pastor , on that day seven-night ; or else that some other might in love , peace , and quietness , have liberty to give answer thereunto , as my printed Papers testifie . Which request would not be received , neither hath himself , or any other of the Clergie given answer thereunto , to this day : but in stead of answering the Questions , he ( my self being not there present ) excommunicates me . Whereupon , within four or five days after , I sent him a Letter , in which was inclosed another Paper , signifying my desire to have him prove those things which he calls Errour and Blasphemy , to be so , and that from Scripture or Reason ; wherein I also promised Repentance , and publike Recantation thereof , in case he should so prove them ; as also , my earnest desire of answer to those and the former Queries proposed , in reference not onely to my own , but many others satisfaction : one whereof was this , verbatim , What the true and very hell is spoken of in Scripture , and you from God or Christ ( as you say ) so much promise to , and threaten the people with : the very right and true knowledge whereof , is of the greatest and highest concernment to be clearly made known and discovered to the people , of all other things ; all other things being but as it were accessaries thereunto ; therefore must certainly be made known to you , of you be what you say you are : yet it 's very much to be feared , that very few of you have the true knowledge either of the one or the other ; but that most fancie both the one and the other as the Papists their Purgatory , and the Poets their Elizian fields , is abundantly manifest : both God and the Devil , both Death and Life , both Heaven and Hell , being very much nearer to us then we are aware of . Whether this be the denial of the things or no , I commit to the judgement of all men . As also in the 20 and 21 pages of my Book intituled Parson Simpson's Excommunication excommunicated , where speaking of the Clergie , you shall finde it thus : Let me tell them this of a truth , and that which they shall assuredly finde one day , that except they break off their sins by true and unfeigned repentance their lying , their hypocrisie , their covetousness their railing and persecuting , they shall to hell , and be tormented day and night with the devils , yea and remain there until they have paid the utmost farthing . You have also in several other places of the said book , both heaven and hell according to the Scripture fully asserted by me . In my Letter before spoken of , I wrote to him that if he would promise me answer within some certain days therein prefixed ( the number whereof I do not now remember ) I should forbear to publish my second Paper : which he not doing I then made publication thereof to the world , with this Assertion , That if I proved not him and the rest of the Clergie of England generally , who cry out of others for heresie and blasphemy the greatest deceivers or falsifiers of the truth , and blasphemers ( as themselves call it ) in the Nation , let me die the death . I am the same still , and shall be ready upon my life to prove and make good the same against them , whenever I shall in a fair and just way be called to it . Which I speak onely out of the love I have unto this Nation , and the desire of its peace ; which cannot be , whilst they have any power or influence in , upon , and over the same : they have been , they are the chief occasioners of all the bloodshed that hath been , and is yet likely to be , in England , nay in all Nations . Some few weeks after this , I obtained a Copie of the Form of his Excommunication , with his Arguments against my Positions ; to which I very shortly after gave answer in Print : which Discourse I dedicated to the Parliament . Which said Book and Papers , any who desires further satisfaction in the things discoursed may have them at M. Giles Calvert's Bookseller , at the signe of the black Spread-Eagle at the West-end of Pauls . Not many days after this , Tho. Andrews , the Cities Lord Maior , and one of the said Simpsons Society , who by his Place and Office is more especially bound to keep , defend , and preserve the Laws of the Nation , the Liberties and Freedoms of the people inviolate ; yet he , contrary thereunto , signes and sends a Warrant to bring me before the Bench at the Sessions-house in the Old Bayly ; no fault , crime , or misdemeanour being specified in the said Warrant : the illegality whereof was then and there declared by the Lord Chief Justice Rolls and Baron Thorp : by which act he is perjur'd , and ought of right to give an account to the Common-wealth for his mal-administration of Justice in this and several other particulars of far higher weight and concernment , which I now forbear to instance in . At my being brought thither , there were onely these two Articles found and read against me , viz. That the soul of man is of the essence of God , and , That there is neither heaven nor hell but what is here . The Lord Chief Justice Rolls asked me what I said to it and whether I spake those words or no . My answer was , That there had been divers and several Disputes at my house about those things ; and what my own opinion or judgement was therein , I had made it publike in Print , and presented several Members of the Parliament and Council of State therewith . And I farther said , that if I had said them very words as they were there laid down , yet was it not contrary unto , or against any act of Parliament . To which neither the Lord Chief Justice , nor any other of the Bench , gave answer ; but there I stood some space of time , whilst they fell upon other business . At length , I asked the Lord Chief Justice what I should do in the case , being thus like a Rogue , Murderer , or Felon forcibly and violently taken out of my house , and that , now I was brought thither , no breach of any Law whatsoever was found against me . The Lord Chief Justice fell again upon other business . Whereupon , I asked him again what I must do in the case ; and desired that he , as he was Lord Chief Justice of England , would advise me . He answered , You must ( I think ) put in security to answer it the next Sessions . To which I replied , I was forcibly , suddenly , and violently taken out of my house , and brought hither ; and I have no friend here . Whereupon , M. Recorder Steel very civilly replied , that I was very well known , and my own word was sufficient . Whereupon , my own word was taken to appear the next Sessions ; which I accordingly did . Then I found an Indictment drawn against me , with much addition of words , and them laid down in another form then before , and much different from my true sence and meaning . Then I was compelled to put in security to appear the Sessions following , to answer to that Indictment . Accordingly I did appear : where , that morning they had appointed for my hearing , appeared also Judge Nicols , who , as he came not all the Sessions before that morning , so he went away again assoon as he had given me my dispatch . Before I came to answer , I demanded to have my prosecutors bound over , according to Law , to make good the several Charges laid down in the Indictment against me . Which by him was refused . I told him , I should then make no answer at all , except that he would there declare that the Bench , upon my requiring , were not bound thereunto by Law . He answered , No . Whereupon I replied , and told him , How then , or of whom should I expect to receive satisfaction , for my molestation , injury , and charge , in case the Crimes should not be proved against me ? His answer was , that it was now in this case , as it was formerly in the Kings time : he that then prosecuted for the King , was not bound over ; neither is it necessary that he who prosecutes for the State should ; for there was but onely the change of the name : before , it was in the name of the King ; and now , in the name of the State . Here ( Gentlemen ) you have the judgement and opinion of a learned and reverend Judge given upon the Bench at the Sessions what the Nation hath run so many hazards , spent so much treasure , lost so many precious lives for , made so many fatherless and widows , so many poor dismembred creatures the Land over , onely for the change of a name . And verily , as yet we have very little , if any thing at all more ; neither indeed shall or can we have , until those square-headed Benchers be dismounted ; and their long-tail'd retinue thrown over the Bars , and turned out of their several Cloysters and Meeting-places ; amongst whom is little to be found , except corruption , deceit , and confusion ; their very Formalities , which they so much glory in , speaks no less : Square-heads nor Longtails neither will nor can perfect and settle the Peoples or Nations Rights ; no , it must be Round-heads : for nothing is or can be perfect , or bring forth perfection , but that which is round , perfectly round : Square-heads are fit subjects to receive , & treasures to retain in their Quadrangle-points , the several forms , dictates , subtil , diabolical , sophistical Reasons and Arguments of the corruptest times , persons , and interests ; accordingly are their critical , uncertain , irrational , corrupt , false , contradictory Judgements , Motions and Arguments . Let not themselves , or any other , be offended at these expressions , in discovery of truth , since the Pleaders at the several Bars , and those also upon the Benches , are notoriously known to be conversant in such quibbles or expressions , upon most weighty occasions , to hide and obscure the truth . Are their studies so much to study the Law for defence of truth , or to contract the Law into one perfect undivided and undividable being speaking one and the same thing always alike to all ? But contrarily , their care and study is , how to make the Law speak multiplicities of Riddles , whereby to confound the entire union-meaning thereof , and so to serve their own , their Lords and Masters turn , what the Prince , State , or Clients desires occasions and interests call for , or have occasion to use it in , though never so contrary to , or against it self , as it is or should be one pure simple act in Reason neither looking backward nor forward but ever , & always , and in all times the same . How came the Law in the late King's time so loudly , so strongly , so certainly and undeniably to speak his designes and interests so legal , so justifiable , that , in the grand Case of Ship-money , but two ( as I remember ) of all the Judges dissented ? And also , how many went away with him , owned his proceedings to be according to Law and sate at Oxford in Judicatory executing all things in a formality of Law ? Those who remained here , and joyned with the Parliament , they declare and judge their proceedings warrantable , and justifiable also ; and both these by one and the same Law . Some , upon putting to death the late King , desert the Parliament in that particular : Others justifie that also to be legal and warrantable . Some of the Parliaments party , by those with the King , are adjudged and condemned for Traitors : others , that were for the King against the Parliament , are by those here adjudged and condemned for Traitors also ; and this still by one and the same Law . I would ask them all this one single question . Whence , from what , or from whom your selves , or any other at this time , hold and derive your Rights , Power , and Authority ? in , from , and by the Law ; or in , from , and by the Sword ? If in , by , and from the Law ; then he or they who shall offer violation to any so holding and deriving , offers violation to the Law , and ought to suffer for the breach and violation thereof according to the Law . If in , from , and by the Sword onely ; then are you , and all others so holding and deriving , accountable onely thereunto . In , from , and by both , you cannot hold and derive . To say , Partly from one , and partly from the other , is inconsistent . The Sword , indeed , as servant to the Law , may execute its commands ; and so protect the Law , which is its proper work : but then you must first finde a command in and from the Law for the Swords actings : if not , know , you are compleatly under the power , dictates and commands of the Sword . What use or need then is there of any of your sittings , of any of your Judgements or Judicatories ? Whilst the Sword is in its Regencie , there is no room for , nay all other Laws , Commands , and Actings whatsoever , which are not subservient unto it , cease , as being altogether inconsistent ; and must be and remain so , until it have ended its conquest , and the people re-united into one free and entire body , for the setling and establishing themselves in peace , security , and rest , by such Laws as themselves shall chuse : then is the Sword again given up into the Peoples power and command ; having effected its right end , is transmitted unto its right place . It s true original was from the people , for their defence in their Rights and Liberties : and when it hath attained that , then must it to them be resigned ; and this is the right end and nature of all true Conquests , and truely noble Conquerors , or rather , of all true and noble Saviours , Redeemers , or Deliverers . And truely , for any man or men to conquer , that him or themselves may reign and rule , sit in and enjoy their Seats and Places conquered , his or their private and particular interests and accommodations , is not thank-worthy ; but this , To make or give enjoyments to others : and this , at least in form and shew , hath been the practice of all Conquerors ; of which this Nation hath had manifest experience : No sooner hath any conquest been made by any , but the Conqueror calls a Parliament , summons the people to chuse themselves Laws ; though their ends have been to settle themselves . Here , Gentlemen , you may see who or what hath been , next to the Clergie , the greatest cause of England's miseries . The Clergie hath preached us into blood , and hath brought Gospel for justification of each party ; and the other Long-Rob'd Gentlemen , they have pleaded and argued us into blood , and adjudged each parties actions and proceedings legal : and by them of each party , hath the people been condemned by one and the same Law . Thus both Clergie and Lawyer can make their Cameleon shew any colour . How then we the People can expect peace and settlement whilst either of these two generations remain amongst us , is to me a Paradox . I would not here be taken to charge or condemn every particular Gentleman of either Calling or Profession ; for I know of both that are truely honourable , for the sincerity of their affections to the Nations Rights and Priviledges , its peace and prosperity ; in respect to which they are willing not onely to sacrifice their Places , Callings , and Professions , but their Lives also : But I speak as to that Principle which reigns in and guides the most or generality of them , who have ever been found to transgress for a morsel of bread ; and whom if I prove not to be the greatest traitors and enemies to this Commonwealth in the Nation ( if to subvert and pervert the Laws of the Nation be the greatest Treason , as it in many Parliaments hath been adjudged ; or that ( according to that undeniably-true and generally-received Maxime ) it be granted , that Salus populi suprema Lex , that the highest , supremest Law of Laws and so end of all Law , is the Peoples safety ) or if those two Judges died justly , whose fact and execution , for their brethren the Judges sakes , are still kept in remembrance , in that place at Westminster where the King and Lords used to sit in the time of Parliaments by the Wool-sacks , the Judges seats , when called in for their counsel , as a continual Monitor unto them , and all that succeed them for ever : I say , if I prove it not , then let me die the death , as I justly deserve , should I not make good this my Charge against them , which I am and shall be ready to do , at any time , before a competent Judge & Jury . And , to say the truth , the highest treason must needs arise from the breach of the highest trust . Now then , he or they to whom the Law , with the administration thereof , is intrusted , have undoubtedly the highest and greatest trust : for it , namely the Law , is of the highest and greatest concernment to all and every particular person in the Nation , of any or all other things : there is a sacredness in it , and it ought to be kept sacred and inviolate by every one of us , upon the highest penalties ; it being that , and that onely , which without and in stead of Castles , Bulworks , Forts , and Towers , keeps , preserves , and maintains the whole Nation or People , not onely in a joynt union and communion one with another , but also all and every one in their several and particular Rights and Liberties in peace and security . And this , Gentlemen , my brethren of this Nation , is our Law ; which had our Judges and their dependencies kept pure and inviolate ; had they fully , plainly , and stoutly cleared and maintained , according to their Oathes , Places , and Trusts reposed in them , these Wars must of necessity have been prevented . And if we yet could by any means obtain this thing , namely , the clearing and vindicating of our Laws in the particulars mentioned , we might presently turn our swords into plow-shares , and our spears into pruning-hooks ; which cannot be done , until these men , with their appendixes , be undone . I shall now , after this long digression made for the Nations sake and cause , ( which I hope pleads me justly excused ) return to the prosecution of my Relation . My next reply to Judge Nicols was that in case he would there in open Court declare that it was a legal and just proceeding , not ( as is before expressed ) to have my prosecutors bound over to make good the Indictment against me , I would then proceed to answer the Charge . He answered , It was legal . Then I did proceed , and spake to the Indictment it self , which runs thus : That Robert Norwood being one most monstrous in his opinions loose wicked , and abominable in his practices , not onely to the notorious corrupting and disordering , but even to the dissolution of all humane society , rejecting the use of any Gospel-Ordinances , Doth deny the necessity of civil and moral righteousness amongst men . To which things when I came to speak , and declare in open Court to the people , that if any man or men could prove these things against me , I was willing not onely to suffer imprisonment , but death also ; I was answered from the Bench , That that was no part of my Charge , but it was onely as a Preamble . Then I am sure it was a most scandalous Indictment , or an Indictment drawn most scandalously ; which is contrary to our Law , and for which , he who drew the same is accountable to the Law : and for what end it was , except to make me odious to the people , or to pick mens pockets , or both I know not . When I came to the several things in the Indictment , which were a number of words put together , to what end or purpose I know not , except to make me ( as I said before ) more odious to the people ; there being but One thing in the whole Indictment , consisting of Thirteen sheets and a half , colourably coming within the compass of the Act or Law by which I was tried , called , An Act against several atheistical blasphemous and execrable Opinions ; which is , that I should say , as it is laid down in one part of the Indictment , that there is not any such thing as the people call hell and damnation : and in another place , that I should say , There is neither hell nor damnation . Neither of which , were my opinion such as condemned by that Act , which condemns such onely who deny both heaven and hell , both salvation and damnation ; and this must be testified to be avowedly done , and that by two witnesses , as is expresly laid down in that Act. Now my Charge in the Indictment at most is onely for saying there is neither hell nor damnation , or such a hell and damnation as the people imagine ; and this is testified but by one witness ; which also was spoken in Discourse , or Dispute , therefore could not , upon a rational and just account , be said to be avowedly ; especially my Book and Papers , attested with my own hand fully speaking my owning and acknowledging both heaven and hell , both salvation and damnation ; which I offered to give as evidence , but it would not be received . And the Law always ought to be interpreted in the best sence , to the most advantage ; and not in the worst sence , or to the most and greatest disadvantage to the party accused . So that you may here see what ground there was for either Judge or Jury to finde me guilty . Let all men take , and lay my Charge in the Indictment to their own Rule , without shewing me the least favour , or being in the least tittle partial , and see and judge what agreement there is between them ; how or wherein any thing charged upon me in that Indictment , is condemned or adjudged by that Act or Rule . Yet see the close combination between the Clergie and the other Gentlemen of the Long-Robe , together with the chief Judge at the Sessions , the present Lord Maior Andrews . Sidrack Simpson his called-Pastor excommunicates me ; but as yet hath not , either to the world , or my self , given an account of that action , nor proved the things asserted by me such as he condemns them for ; no , he dares not that his doings should betried and examined ; neither himself , nor the rest of his brethren , dare come unto the light ; why ? because their deeds and doctrines are evil : Truth never shuns the light , but readily comes to the Test and trial . He having excommunicated me , Andrews gets me to the Sessions-house , being ( as I said before ) chief Judge there . The Clergie ply it hard , to get me turned out of the High Court of Justice , that I might not have any shadow of honour , esteem , or protection from the State . Parson Caryl by name , to whom I sent one of my Papers for answer , in respect of what passed between him , his brother Owen , and my self , before his Excellencie the Lord General Cromwel ; but from none of them ever did I receive any answer : onely Caryl meeting of me , told me he wondered the Parliament would continue me in that Court . To which I answered I never was a dishonour to the Nation , nor ever did any thing unworthy a Gentleman . And I would have him and all men know , that it 's neither Names nor Places will make me or any man the less or the more honourable ; no , it is the inward power or spirit acting it self forth in truely honourable and noble actings , that makes or gives those denominations : it 's not Names that makes or gives the Things ; but it 's Things that gives or makes the Names . Upon my being indicted at the Sessions , Alderman Estwick moved that I might be turned out of the Court , though yet no crime was found or proved against me . If not Justice , yet Wisdom and Discretion would have led him to have forborn such a motion , until some crime worthy thereof had been proved against me : He knows very well , that many times an innocent and guiltless person is indicted yea , and condemned too , when the nocent and guilty goes free : He needed go no further for a president or example , then himself and the Lord Maior ; which in due time shall be made appear to the world ; both of them deserving to be indicted upon a far higher account then an errour in judgement , which yet also remains to be proved such . Upon this motion , and perhaps the instigation of one or two more , without the consent , vote , order , or desire of the Court , the Attorney-General makes a motion in the House for my discharge from that Place . What just ground or cause he had for it , I leave the world to judge ; as also , if he had not just ground and cause so to do , whether he did not therein notoriously abuse the House . The Attorney-General , and some other of the Long-Robe-Benchers , taking themselves ( as some of themselves were pleased to speak ) to be often affronted by me , especially in the case of Sir John Stowel ; first , in that I told the Atturney-General it was not fit for him publikely to threaten that Court , to which , in that capacity , he was but a servant : and then , when the Court was in argument concerning the business of the said Sir John Stowel , the aforesaid Judge Nicols , contrary to the Orders of the Court , took me up very angerly , because I said I loved the Nation so well , and so much respected its reputation and honour , that rather then the Faith thereof , so solemnly given by the Army , and confirmed by both Houses of Parliament , should be violated , and so his blood brought upon the Nation ; I had rather go to the Gallows , and be hanged my self : or words to this purpose . But , in stead of looking into the true state of the matter , and weight of so blunt an Argument , he told me expresly , he would endure no such words : yet was not he President of the Court , neither had he in the least more priviledge of vote or speech there then my self . Some other words passed , which I shall forbear to report . This Judge Nicols , as I said before , comes now down on purpose to be my Judge . Here lies the sum of the whole matter : Simpson excommunicates me , but as yet hath proved nothing worthy of blame against me , much less of such a Censure ; gives no account either to me , or to the world , of this action . The Lord Maior Andrews gets me indicted at the Sessions-house , sends an illegal Warrant for me , declared so by Judge Rolls and Baron Thorp , upon the Bench at the Sessions ; executes the said Warrant by a hired Constable , one of no worth , by whom I was forcibly taken out of my house , and carried to the Sessions . Estwick ( perhaps smelling that I was acquainted with and took notice of something he must give an account of ) moves my ejectment out of the High-Court of Justice . The Attorney-General glad thereof , receives the motion , though without order or direction from the Court , and moves the House : the House receives the motion , coming from one of their own Members , he being also in great trust for the management of business for that Court , and gives me a discharge . Now comes the last game to be plaid , and that is , by some means or other , if possible , to fasten something upon me that should render or make appear to the whole world , that I justly deserved all these things ; else it must lie as a blot upon them all for ever : Therefore must Judge Nicols be sent down to do the work . Now let all the Nation be judge in the case ; I will be silent : if I have transgress'd the Law , let me not be spared , but let the Law be executed in its rigour ; I beg no favour . But in case I had said or held some such thing in discourse , or by way of disputation , as that Act condemns , as the Witnesses testified it was ; shall that be taken and received for an avowed act , rather then that which I have attested under my Hand , dedicated and presented to the highest Judicatory in the Nation , which , as I said before , I offered as testimony , but it was refused ? This is a strange acting construction , and interpretation of the Act , and an unheard-of Judgement upon a mans avowed Principles . I further told the Court , that if Disputations were not allowed , or if men must be called to account and judged for what in Disputation is either affirmed or denied , the Universities and Schools of Learning must be shut up , and all mens mouthes stopped : for , in all Disputes , there must be the Negative and the Affirmative ; Disputes being still of Contraries . And verily , this is no other then to binde men up according to the Laws of the Bishop of Rome , and our former Bishops here , to their Faith and Belief ; which is contrary to what the Parliament hath constantly held forth to the people in their several Votes and Declarations ; that Act being intended principally , if not onely , against the carnal and fleshly actings of corrupt and bestial men . But , if I mistake not , as I have formerly published , the true knowledge of God and of the Devil , of Hell and Heaven , of Salvation and Condemnation or Damnation , is of the highest concernment to be truely known , and rightly understood , of any other thing ; these being , or at leastwise are made to be , the very end of all the Religion , Praying , Preaching , and all things else of that nature : therefore doubtless men may not reasonably be debarred from searching for or after the knowledge of that upon which the All of man depends . Men have as little reason to trust the Clergie now , as those in Christ's time had to trust the Scribes and Pharisees : as they were advised not to trust them , so , say I , it 's good not to trust too much to these , lest the blinde leading the blinde , both fall into the ditch . And verily , if they cannot tell us truely what either of them be , or wherein , whereby , or wherewith they consist , subsist , and exsist ; they may as well lead us to hell as to heaven , into condemnation or damnation , as well as into salvation ; to the Devil , as well as to God . This I am sure of , that most of their Preachings and Practices are from the devil , if the Scriptures speak truth ; and therefore must needs lead thither : what else means the bleating of those many poor Ewes and Lambs left fatherless through your instigations and preachings ? Have you not , amongst you preached three Nations into blood ? Can you , now you have kindled this fire from hell , which is like to devour and consume all can you ( I say ) by your Preachings quench it again ? You may see it 's true what James saith , Behold , how great a thing a little fire kindleth ! M. Simpson you see your self , and all men may see it , in this matter , what inconveniences you have put the State and many others upon ; and you your self know your self to be the occasioner of it : and should not a spirit of more meekness and moderation appear in those that are persecuted , then in their persecutors , a new fire , or fresh flame would presently lay hold upon the Nation . I have done with you for this time . Then I told the Court likewise , that it was an easie matter to be mistaken , or to be traduced in a mans words , especially in Argument or Disputation ; and it was a very easie matter to do it by any man in his Pulpit ; he might take one part of his speech , and not the other . I told the Court also , that if I did speak the words in the sence they understood them , I did there unsay them again . Yet therein I desired I might not be mistaken : for as I accounted it my honour to desert an Errour , so I did also account it my honour not to desert the least Truth ; neither should I , were I presently to die in the place . I further said , I never did , neither do I now deny the things ; but do here , in the presence of the Court , and all the people , acknowledge both . And I further told the Court , that if any man accused for Heresie and an Heretick , even in the hottest of persecutions in Queen Maries days ; yet if at the Stake , or any time before , he made his Recantation , he was acquitted , discharged , and delivered . And I did there solemnly declare , that I held and owned both heaven and hell , both salvation and damnation : but all this would not serve turn ; I must to New-gate , there to be kept prisoner for six months , without Bayl or Mainprise . I have concluded my Relation , and give all the world to know , I am not at enmity with , nor bear I evil will unto or against any person in the Nation . I know every one is in his proper work , and that all and every one , yea all things ( as it is written ) shall work together for good ; therefore am I not offended at any . And because I love the Nation therefore would I that the Nation might be saved : it cannot be saved but in righteousness : For as all things that are made and created , must be saved by him that made and created them ; so also must they be saved in that way or word , in or by which they were made and created ; and that is in righteousness ; which Way or Word is Christ the Righteousness , or Christ the Wisdom of the Father : for Wisdoms works or goings forth are all in righteousness ; or what is done or brought forth in righteousness , is the work of wisdom , or wisdoms workings , in which and by which the worlds were made , as is fully asserted and inserted by and in the Scriptures . All and every unrighteousness is sin , as the Scriptures also testifie ; and all sin is weakness : and therefore , as it is written , sin or weakness certainly bringeth forth death . Every departure from Light , is Darkness ; every departure from Strength , is Weakness ; every departure from Life , is Death : according to the several measures or degrees of their departure or separation , so much are they wrapped , infolded , involved , or sealed up in their contraries ; though all these Names signifie but one and the same Thing . And verily , nothing is truely righteous , will or can work righteousness perfectly , but Love , Love in truth : Names , and Shews , and Forms , will not do it ; but Love in Life , Love in Power . The reason is , nothing is truely wise but it ; and it 's better then Wisdom , or it 's Wisdoms excellencie ; or the excellencie of Wisdom is Love : and therefore saith Christ of himself , Behold a wiser then Solomon is here : Hence Christ is said to come out of the bosome of the Father , because he is the Father's Love , or the love of , or rather in the Father : And hence is he said to be the Saviour of the world because nothing but love either will or can save it ; because nothing else can in truth work righteousness but it ; nothing else being truely righteous , or righteousness in truth , but it . Brethren be not deceived ; it 's not the sufferings , it 's not the blood , it 's not the death of Christ slain at Jerusalem , will save you , as witnesseth the Scriptures : this is the Saviour or Salvation , that great Salvation God sent into the world : therefore when he comes , he brings this Command with him , namely , Love one another ; and saith , as the truth is , that under that is comprehended all . And you must know God , or Christ ; and his Commands are himself . Now I say , as before it hath been said , that Light or Truth is come into the world , or hath received its resurrection , though not as yet its ascension in and over the world : but as men then did , so men now do , love darkness more then light ; why ? because their deeds are evil ; and this therefore is the condemnation . Brethren , it 's undeniably true , that he which doth , or that which is Truth , willingly and readily comes unto the light , at least , if it may have liberty so to do : And on the contrary , it is as certain , that he which doth , or that which is evil , as much a voids and shuns the light . Brethren , the days of your ignorance God hath hither to winked at , but now he willeth that all men should come to the knowledge of the truth : Wherefore , Brethren , let me in love , in the bowels of love , of mercy and compassion , intreat and beseech you . And I do earnestly intreat you all of and in the Nation , of all ranks , qualities , states , and conditions ; you of the Clergie , you the professors of the Law , I beseech you again and again , to consider , All unrighteousness is sin , all sin is weakness , weakness bringeth forth death : Why , O why then will you die ? Behold , death lies at the very door of this Nation . Consider , is any thing called for but your unrighteousness , which will certainly be your death ? What is it you are to part with ? is it any thing but that which will evidently and eminently be your destruction ? Consider , all things must die , must pass away , but Love , but Charity ; and they , or that , abides for ever ; that is God , that is Christ ; to whom or to which when the whole man is in the same Love subjected and united , then indeed is it properly said to be saved , or to be in a condition of salvation , when that true light which is life , or life which is light , that wisdom which is pure and unspotted of the world , free from all flesh and fleshliness , yet living in flesh , but not flesh ; that is , he or it which is not touched with Humanity , even the alone-wisdom of the eternal Deity in himself ; which when he or it shall arise in his or its own pure light , life , and strength in us , and we in the sight of the loveliness , beauty , and excellencie thereof , are in our selves , in our earthly , selfish , fleshly , carnal , or worldliness , subjected and united in love thereunto ; then , from thence , in the light , life , power , and strength thereof , shall we act in the Righteousness of , or rather , in Love unto All . Verily , I cannot but abhor the Doctrine and Principles of most Christians ; and I profess before all the world , they are Principles and Doctrines of devils , and the very bane of or unto all Godliness and Honesty , wholly destructive to the true Scripture , which hath and must have its union with , and so its life , subsistence , existence , and consistence in the light and truth it self ; the very form , shadow , or outside of things , being set up , worshipped , adored , received , trusted unto , and rested in , in stead of the light , life , power , and truth it self . I will give you a very late example or president , ( just now brought to my hand by an honest Gentleman ) which was of an Officer belonging to the Excise-Office London , who having wickedly forsworn himself , and being reproved for it , readily replied , that Christ died for perjured persons . And , to say the very truth , it is that we all wipe our mouthes with : We sin by oppression , by injustice , by deceit , or by other carnal , fleshly , sensual , and devilish actings : why Christ died for sinners ; we lay all upon the back of a poor weak man like our selves , dying at Jerusalem : and this also the Clergie ( when men are upon their death-beds ) stop into their mouthes , with some of their bread and wine perhaps also ; and then all 's well , they must to heaven without dispute . O Rome , Rome , Rome ! My dear Country-men , you of this Nation , I speak unto you all ; for whom , and whose true and real peace and happiness , I could ( God is my witness , from my very soul I speak it ) with much more chearfulness and readiness of spirit be offered up a sacrifice in the fire , then to be freed and delivered from my present bonds and imprisonment : O that I could deliver you from the present , and those future sorer evils that are coming upon you , except repentance indeed prevents them ! Brethren , you may easily see where your salvation lies , who or what your salvation is : There is no salvation but in union with Light and Life ; no salvation but in Christ , the Righteousness and Wisdom of the Father ; wherefore , in Isaiah he is called the Wonderful Counseller , and so the Prince of peace , whose Kingdom must be established with judgement and justice : He is there also called The mighty God , and The everlasting Father . In Isai. 42. 6 , I have ( saith the text ) called thee in righteousness : So that you see there is no peace , no salvation , no rest , but in Union ; no Union , but in Righteousness ; no Righteousness , but in Love : your inward or inmost salvation lieth here , and your outward , utmost or outmost salvation lieth here also . If the outmost figures stand and hold in Union & Communion each with other , according to , and in proportion with the inmost light and life , receiving their strength and subsistence from thence ; then are they safe or saved . Thus One operating into Three , and Three operating again into One , is the life of all and every one ; which speaks the wisdom , love , and righteousness of or in the Father , which is the onely and alone Saviour or Salvation , and that is Union . He who died at Jerusalem , I say , my brethren , is not the Christ , is not the Saviour the Scriptures point you unto : I deny not but that he or that which is the life and light , and so the Saviour of the world , abode or dwelt in , and manifested it self with , by , and thorow that veil of flesh , the Anointing or Anointed of the Father ; and that he was the anointed above his fellows : And it must be the very same Anointing that must save you : Know you not that Christ is in you , except you be reprobates ? that is , as it in the first Epistle to the Corinthians , as he is of God made unto us his power and wisdom , and his wisdom and righteousness . Christ in or after the flesh , in his particular form , cannot be in any man : in and after the Spirit in the love , wisdom and righteousness of the Father , he is and may be : so that this must be your eye-salve , your meat and your drink which you must be made partakers of , have fellowship and communion with , even the pure Virgin-Spirit , which hath not , neither can it defile it self with women , with fleshly or earthly weaknesses ; and not his corporeal flesh and blood : for consider , That which you cannot participate of , that can you not be saved by : Can you eat his flesh , and drink his blood ? Could you , that could but feed and refresh the flesh and blood : for nothing can feed or refresh that which is not of the same nature and essence with it self . In all Unions , there is necessarily required oneness or sameness : then needs must it be meant of a more neer invisible nature and essence which we are to be made partakers of . And as that place cannot be taken in a literal sence , according to the outward form of flesh ; for , as it 's said , his words are spirit and life : so of necessity must all the other texts in Scripture coherent to that , speaking of his outward form and figure in all things relating thereunto , be taken in reference to an inward invisible power , nature & essence . And indeed , we all who will live in the life of the Spirit , must be slain in , to or after the flesh , the life of the flesh must be totally extinguished , before we shall or can live the pure Virgin-life of or in the Spirit . Brethren , consider and know , that the whole Scripture , yea the whole Creation , is but a dark Mystery , Riddle , Parable , ar Sealed Book unto us , until the Spirit of light from God open , unfold unriddle , or unseal the same . I having much exceeded what I intended , in this last and some other discourses occasionally falling in with this Relation of the state of my Case , must necessarily break off very abruptly , having onely leasure to subscribe my self , The Nations Faithful and truely-real friend and servant , in and under the highest and supremest law of Love , unto death to be commanded , Robert Norwood . POSTSCRIPT . UNderstanding that it is by divers reported that I should carry on some private or particular designe , I thought it convenient , both in respect to my self , and all others , to make this my solemn Protestation , in the sight of God , and all men , That I am , and ever have been , so far from designing , or joyning with designers , that I have constantly declined all converse with , and temptations from men in or of that way . Yet , according to that little spark of wisdom and light in me , have I been made willing and ready to embrace and receive every Truth made known to me , in and from whomsoever it hath appeared , without respect to persons , or minding my particular outward advantage or disadvantages therein , or thereby : which must and will be acknowledged and subscribed to by all that know me ; and this in peace and love : My voice hath not been lifted up , nor my cry ever heard in the streets . In the late King's time , my temptations were not little , nor sollicitations few , with offers sutable , and far exceeding what upon any account could be thought of by me , would I but have complied with , or but sate silent in reference to the interests then on foot . All that know me , know me to be very free , plain , and open , almost to all men : I was plain in the King's time , plain with him and his Council at the then-Council-Board ; by whom , and for my non-compliance with his illegal , unjust , destructive proceedings to Himself and the Nation or Commonwealth , my sufferings were not small nor inconsiderable . In the late Earl of Essex his time , I had the like sollicitations for a compliance with them then in their plottings , complottings , and counterplottings : I was then by them threatned also for opposing the Scotish interest then on foot ; though then I did nothing but in the publike view of all men : I dealt plainly with those designers : I usually , as in other things , so in this , declared my self , that I would not be guilty of so great an absurdity and ridiculousness , as to say , when I fought against the King's Army , I fought not against the King , when he was in the head of it , and they Commissioned by him . I have not , from the beginning of these times , wanted the counsel of many , and they no slender or weak Statists or Polititians in account of the world , as to the carriage and ordering of my self and affairs according to the Maximes and Principles thereof : I have ever answered , Honesty slights Policy ; and that I ever accounted plain honesty the best of policies . Neither ever could I , or shall I , by all the Polititians in the world , be beaten out of that Maxime . To me it 's most safe and sure : for what is attained by Policie , must be kept by Policie , Force , or both ; in both which ( besides the various perplexing courses , countercourses the spirit of man must run , act or be acted in , the continual cares and fears that possess , and so dispossess , not onely themselves , but others , of all true and real enjoyments ; and to the securing whereof , nothing , no relations , no conditions may or must be spared ) there is , neither can there be any thing but uncertainty of and in the end : and this truely and properly is the Devil , or that Deceiver in Man . Politicks and Designers ever run in a retrograde motion unto God or Truth : therefore can there be no rest or peace , no certainty or stability . Where there is not a true and certain Foundation , there cannot be a firm , stable , and lasting structure . It hath been often told me by a Gentleman known to and coversant with most of the actors and plotters of these times , and is pretty well read in Politicks , That I had always luck to rise of the right side . My answer still was , Would he be honest , he would do so too . I never did , neither will I ever do any thing that relates to the Publike , but what I care not who sees and knows . So far am I from a Designer , that I could willingly carry all my actings , designings , and plottings , upon my forehead , plain , open , and evident , to be seen and read by all men , of all sorts , sides , or parties whatsoever . Nay , I do , and ever did account it much belowe a truely worthy , noble , and ingenuous spirit , to act , or be acted in , with , or by any designes or designers whatsoever . It 's said , That every wise man hath his end : I say too , If his end be true , and that his end and way be one and the same , else he is no : a wise man , or acts not in wisdom . If that I would have , desire or seek , be just and right , I neither care nor fear who sees or knows it . I must and will say , Whatsoever man or men judge me a Plotter or Designer , they are themselves deeply guilty , and from that guilt ises that his suspicion . He who stands firm in himself , whose deeds and actings have been and are in truth , fears not the greatest or suddenest approaches of the highest light . I will give them and all men these two Reasons , which may strongly induce them to believe the contrary . First , I never did , neither do I desire Greatness in the world . Secondly , I never did , nor do I desire Popularity . For I well know them both , and what their natural tendencies are . Though many things of high , if not of highest concernment to this Nation , have come thorow my hands , as is known to many ; yet have I seldom or never appeared in them . Verily , I have had as many opportunities and advantages cast upon me for my particular advancement , as most men ; and many have judged me of as answerable parts . It 's true , I had once , and but once ( in all these Troubles ) thoughts of enjoying my self quietly in peace and rest , without any more medling or looking upon the present state and course of things ; and so of building unto my self a nest here : and to that end , did my heart and hand exceed perhaps its due bounds : But God met me , and fell upon me with blowe upon blowe . I ever did , and do still desire a private life above all , and have again endeavoured it , though in a very mean condition comparatively : but I must not be my own carver . I have , I do , and that upon the duest , most serious , and most deliberate advices , thoughts , and consultations in and with my self , judge and determine , neither poverty nor riches to be the best , the surest and safest condition ; therefore the most desirable . The Lord , who knows my heart , knows it was unfeigned love to the Nation , its common good , common weal , or weal common , not to my private or particular self , hath drawn me forth in and unto all my publike actings . Had I sought advantages to and for my self , I could not have missed them : but , in stead thereof , I have spent my self , my time , and estate , without any satisfaction . What I was at first , I am the same still . There seemed to me , in the beginning of these times , to be a very free , upright , ingenuous , innocent conjunction of hearts and spirits for a real common good , for Liberty and Freedom in truth , for Reformation in all things according to the Rule of Truth , real , and not verbal , formal , or notional onely ; and this indeed was the end of all our Covenants and Engagements ; which shall yet be brought to pass and accomplished , which shall yet stand for and against : And this continued , until the corrupt , private , and particular interests of some in Authority , ( with the Clergie , and by their instigations ) rent and tore in pieces , making that which in a true , rational , grammatical sence is one entire union in it self , looking onely one way , to look as many several ways as their several interests & foolish fancies led them to imagine ; even as they do the Scriptures , and all things else ; Union speaking death to them , their subsistences being in and by dividings and divisions . I must deal plainly with the Actors and Officers of and in this State , as I have formerly with those in the late King's time : Your actings , your ways , and workings , are not sutable to , nor agreeable with Principles of honour and honesty , peace and safety , either in reference to your selves , or the Commonwealth , but directly destructive to both . Have you brought Salvation , Liberty , and Freedom to your selves ? Know , you cannot enjoy these without them ; your All lies wrapped up in them , though not theirs in you . Look to it , I intreat you . Should I say otherwise , I should be found a Flatterer , Lyer , and Dissembler , and for ever unworthy to have respect from , or be admitted to the meanest Trust or Service in or to any Prince or State whatsoever . ROBERT NORWOOD . FINIS . Reader , in stead of Judge Nicols , read Judge Warberton .