A defence of tabacco vvith a friendly answer to the late printed booke called Worke for chimny-sweepers, &c. Marbecke, Roger, 1536-1605. 1602 Approx. 117 KB of XML-encoded text transcribed from 36 1-bit group-IV TIFF page images. Text Creation Partnership, Ann Arbor, MI ; Oxford (UK) : 2004-03 (EEBO-TCP Phase 1). A20030 STC 6468 ESTC S109505 99845152 99845152 10037 This keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the Early English Books Online Text Creation Partnership. This Phase I text is available for reuse, according to the terms of Creative Commons 0 1.0 Universal . The text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. Early English books online. (EEBO-TCP ; phase 1, no. A20030) Transcribed from: (Early English Books Online ; image set 10037) Images scanned from microfilm: (Early English books, 1475-1640 ; 880:17) A defence of tabacco vvith a friendly answer to the late printed booke called Worke for chimny-sweepers, &c. Marbecke, Roger, 1536-1605. 70 p. Printed by Richard Field for Thomas Man, London : 1602. The last name of the author, Roger Marbecke, appears in an acrostic in the dedicatory verse. In part an answer to: I.H. Work for chimny-sweepers. Reproduction of the original in the Henry E. Huntington Library and Art Gallery. Created by converting TCP files to TEI P5 using tcp2tei.xsl, TEI @ Oxford. Re-processed by University of Nebraska-Lincoln and Northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. Gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. 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Copies of the texts have been issued variously as SGML (TCP schema; ASCII text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable XML (TCP schema; characters represented either as UTF-8 Unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless XML (TEI P5, characters represented either as UTF-8 Unicode or TEI g elements). Keying and markup guidelines are available at the Text Creation Partnership web site . eng I. H., fl. 1602. -- Work for chimny-sweepers -- Controversial literature -- Early works to 1800. Tobacco -- Early works to 1800. Smoking -- Early works to 1800. 2003-10 TCP Assigned for keying and markup 2003-10 SPi Global Keyed and coded from ProQuest page images 2003-11 Jonathan Blaney Sampled and proofread 2003-11 Jonathan Blaney Text and markup reviewed and edited 2003-12 pfs Batch review (QC) and XML conversion A DEFENCE OF TABACCO : VVITH A FRIENDLY ANSWER TO THE late printed Booke called Worke for Chimny-Sweepers , &c. Si iudicas , cognosce : si Rex es , iube LONDON , Printed by Richard Field for Thomas Man. 1602. TO THE RIGHT WORSHIPFVL SIR HENRIE COCKE knight , Cofferer to her Maiestie : and Master Richard Browne Esquire , Clarke of the Greene cloth . MVch here is said , Tabacco to defend , And much was said , ●abacco to disgrace : Reade , marke , and scan : then censure in the end : Both you are men , most fit to iudge the case . Esteeme of me , as you in me shall find : Craue pardon first I do : and that obtaind , Know this , that no man shall with better mynd , Each where declare to you his loue vnfaind . Come what shall come , to this poore Indian toy : Vnto you both , I wish immortall ioy . A DEFENCE OF TABACCO : VVITH A FRIENDLY ANSWER TO THE late printed Booke called Worke for Chimny-sweepers , &c. Si iudicas , cognose : si Rex es , iube . THere was published of late , a certaine briefe Discourse of Tabacco . By whom it was penned , I know not , I protest : no more then I know his name , that did lay the first stone at the building of London bridge . But in my iudgement , he seemeth to be a man , well read , and of sufficient learning , and vnderstanding . I am requested by some of my friends , ( who rather may command me , ) thoroughly to peruse it , and that being done , to giue my censure , and opinion , and therewithall , to giue such defence as I can , to that poore simple , if the truth of the matter , will any maner of way , seeme to beare it . Loath I am , I confesse , to entermeddle in anie such matters : neuerthelesse , for so much , as modest , and scholerly disputations are to be allowed , and conference betweene such , as haue bene ciuilly brought vp in schooles , are not to be disliked : for that oftentimes they do much good , and giue great contentment to the Reader , if they be done with due regard , of time , place , and person : I haue thought it not amisse to yeeld vnto my friends request : and to say something ●o the matter : more I assure you , to satisfie their desire herein , then otherwise , to seeke to offend anie . For I do protest , and that truly , that I am no way high minded : or do challenge anie whit so much vnto my selfe , as some perchaunce , rather of good will , no doubt , then of my desert do yeeld vnto me . And among that number of men I do account my selfe , that rather desireth to learne of others , then to be a teacher , and an instructer of anie . But euery thing is , as it is taken : and my hope is , that nothing shal be ill taken there , where all is well meant . And before I enter into the matter it selfe , I hold it not amisse to put downe the maine point of the Discourse , or the true state of the question , as they call it , and so much the rather , for that the Authour seemeth somewhat vncertaine herein : sometime inueighing against Tabacco it selfe , and his manifest qualities : sometime speaking but onely against the great abuse thereof . If his meaning be , onely to condemne the abuse of Tabacco : in that , I am readie to take his part , and will most willingly ioyne with him hand in hand : but yet so , as I do thinke , that a good thing should be no more misliked , for the abuse thereof : then I do thinke : that fire , is therefore vtterly to be condemned , because sometime either a towne or house , is set a fire therewith , be it by negligence or malice of others : or that good drinke is therfore to be dispraised , because some that exceed therein , and lye tipling , and quaffing at it all day long , sometime do lose , both their wealth , and wits and all thereby . Leauing therefore , the abuse of Tabacco : or at the least , touching it , as occasion shall be offered : my meaning is onely to deale with Tabacco it selfe : and therein to shew : that , neither of it selfe , or for it selfe , it is to be so mightily misliked : or at the least wise , not so much to be misliked for those causes , and reasons , which are by the Author alleaged . The order that I will obserue shall be thus : the eight chiefe , and capitall arguments , which him selfe hath set downe , I will alleage verbatim , and in the same order , as he hath placed them . And that being done , I will collect and gather , as briefly as I can , the pith , summe , or substance , of his principall proofes , which he bringeth for the farther strengthening , and confirmation of his said arguments , but yet not rehearsing all the Authors words , for that would be too long , and ouer tedious : but , in that behalfe , I will referre the Reader ouer to the booke that is published in print , for his better satisfaction . And hauing answered his arguments , then will I briefly deale with such pretie by-points , and questions of learning , which shall be worth the noting , and shall be found here and there sprinkled , and scattered , in all the Chapters of his booke following , in order as they lye . Touching mine owne particular fantacie and affection to Tabacco : I protest , it is no maner of way , tyed vnto it . For in all my life , either I did neuer take it at all : or else verie seldome : so that , euen in that respect also , I may be held ▪ as a most indifferēt iudge for the matter . Not making indeede , anie great reckening or account , on which side the iudgement , or sentence shall go : not much vnlike to a friends saying of mine , of late : and it was thus : This friend of mine , being not many yeares agoe , a great Courtier , and pleasant conceited Gentleman : but now altogether retired into the countrey , and a man of verie good woorth , and qualitie ; had at that time a sute vnto his Lord and maister , whom he then serued : for the sauing of a man , that was then condemned to be hanged : and but for a trifle neither , quoth he : What is that , said his Lord ? Onely said he , for mistaking of a word or two : for whereas he sh●uld haue bid an honest man , good morrow : he chaunced to bid him Deliuer his purse . Well said his Lord , smiling , I wil do what I can to get his pardon of her Maiestie : but yet in good faith tell me , what shalt thou haue , for thy paines ? if his pardon be gotten . By my troth , quoth he : and I will not lye vnto your Lordship , the troth is , I am promised fortie pound . But if it please your Honor to make it vp ten pound more , and to giue me fiftie , as God iudge me , I care not if he be hanged by and by . And euen so in a maner it fareth with me , touching the case of Tabacco now in question . For if vpon the matter , he shal be found meete to remaine still in request , in some sort , I shall be glad thereof : if otherwise , I shall not greatly be aggrieued . But yet , for that this Tabacco , is a poore gentleman , and a stranger ; and , as it should seeme , of some good account in his countrey , with the high Priests , and Rulers of the Sinagogues there , and can speake no word of our language to defend himselfe , being so mightily accused as he is : and now standeth vpon his triall , at the Barre , I could wish , that for the honor of our countrie he might be both honorably , and fauorably dealt withall , and to be permitted to entertaine some one man or other to pleade his cause , and to speake for him : were it but in forma pauperis : or rather as my neighbours of P●ticoate-lane , Scold , Chider , and Spend-all , are wont to call it , in forme of Papers . And for that it is a deede of charitie to succour and helpe the needie : and for that I am naturally enclined to pitie , and to fauour poore straungers , I pray you giue me leaue to say something in his behalfe , and to speake that which I haue to say , franckly , and freely , without any offence . The first Argument , is : That in the vse , or custome of Tabacco , no methode , or order is obserued : diuersity , and distinction of persons , times , and seasons considered : no varieties of accidents , and diseases pondered , &c. The first reason dependeth wholly vpon this point : Because there is no order , or methode kept therein : therefore either it , or rather the daily vse of it , is to be discommended . And for proofe therof , there is mentioned , the decay of a Commonwealth , for lacke of order , and right gouernment : and beside ●hat , a long discourse is brought in , out of Hippocrates , Galen , and other good writers , as also grounded vpon good experience : That there must regard be had , of the age , of the time , of the disease , of the sexe , of the region and place , of the complexion , &c. or else all is marred : and there can come no good either of it , or of any thing else that is disorderly taken , &c. All this is yeelded vnto , so that there needeth no longer speech at al ▪ where th●re is no contradictiō . So that briefly to conclude : This Argument seemeth , altogether to driue against the immoderat , and disorderly abuse of Tabacco : and not much against the thing it self : and euery artificer and meane trades man , can both see it , and also say as much : that where no order is kept , there the worke cannot prosper , or come to good effect . As for example : He were a simple Cooke , that thought all meates should be dressed alike : or that a Chine of Beefe , should haue no greater a fire , nor no longer a time of rosting , then a dousin of Larkes . And he hath small knowledge in baked meate , that supposeth that a good fat pastie of Venison , must haue no longer a time , either of baking , or of soaking , then an apple Tart. Neither is he to be accounted to haue any skill in baking of bread , I trow , that will first thrust in the batch of bread into the Ouen , and then make the fire afterward . So that to conclude , where all circumstances are not considered , that ought to be regarded : and where any action is to be performed , and where methode , order , and proportion is not kept and obserued , there all the labour is lost , and whatsoeuer is taken in hand , is mard for lacke of discretion . So fareth it with Tabacco : that where it is immoderately and disorderly vsed , there I confesse some offence perchaunce , may well inough grow by the abuse therof : and yet for all that , the poore Simple of it selfe , and the right vse thereof , may iustly deserue great commendation . Hitherto then , it seems we agree well inough . But here in your farther discourse you say : That we see by experience , that some diseased of the Dropsie , and mois● complexions , and maladies growing of superfluities of humors , haue receiued great helpe by the frequent vse of this Tabacco , &c. Tabacco is very much beholding to you for this , I assure you , that your selfe hath here confessed by the way : and it is almost as much , as is either to be wished , or looked for , for the great good of Tabacco . For if it be well weighed , it mightily confuteth , all the rest in a maner of your bitter inueighing against it ; in other places : namely : that it hindreth digestion , it depriueth nature of nourishment , it destroyeth naturall heate , it marreth propagation , it is a daungerous poison : and the like . For now in the meane while , ex confessis : Tabacco in this place is held for a thing very good for dropsies you say and moist complexions , and waterish diseases : and in some other placeshereafter , as you affirme , it is good for the scuruy , for weake cold stomackes , for rheumaticke fluxes , for grosse & foggy bodies , yea : and for expelling of poyson in some sort , &c. All which sayings of yours , are in my opinion maruellous great praises for Tabacco : & so great , as no greater praise can well be deuised , to be attributed , or giuen , to any one simple in the garden . What ? To be good to cure dropsies , and waterish diseases , and rheumes , and scuruies , and cold , and weake stomackes , &c. Why ? what would you more ? would you haue it good for all things ? Nay : the honest stranger that praised butter so much , could neuer bring that to passe in his butter as good as it was : for when that he had said all the good that he could of it , saying , it was good to eate at all times , both morning and euening , and good for all sorts of people both early and late , and good for pies , cakes , and spice-bread , and many other iunketing knackes ; and in the end praised it so excessiuely , that at the last he confirmed it with an oath , that it was the only thing in the world , for it was good for all things : Nay , ho there , sayd a good fellow , and a stander by , That 's not so : for it is not good to stop ouens . Although Tabacco be not good for all things : no , nor for so many things neither , as butter is perchance , yet by my fay : it is well , if it be good for so many things , and so great matters , as dropsies and the like , as you haue sayd : and you shall hardly match him againe I warra●t you , with his like in all points . Marry if your meaning be by this reason , onely to reprehend the abuse and disorder thereof : Then this controuersie is at an end . But yet as I haue already said : The lacke of discretion of the party that vseth it : is no dispraise to the thing that is abused . You still go on , and at the last you find fault with Tabacco , For that by the vse of Tabacco , the natuall offices and functions of the body are peruerted , as namely the mouth , throat , and stomacke , are made emunctory cleansing places , and sinkes for the filth , and superfluous excrements of the whole body , &c. But this obiection is very weake , and to little purpose . For who sees not , that those parts which you haue named , are in some sort appointed by nature , to serue for the selfe same purposes , which you haue here mentioned : as the mouth to auoide superfluous spittle , by hawking , reaching , and spitting : the nose , by vttering such filth , as descendeth from the braine , and forepart of the head : the throate , by coughing , to rid , & make passage for tough fleame , from the lungs , and also to cast vp and discharge ill matters from the stomacke , by the way of vomiting , either pr●cured by art , or otherwise comming voluntarily by natures motion , when she findeth her selfe surcharged with an ouerplus . So that by these doings it should seeme , here is either no offence at all done vnto nature , neither yet her course peruerted : or at the least , nothing so much wronged , & peruerted , as is by you supposed . Marry if these excrements which are wont to be brought thither , and to be conueyed away by those places , were left there to remaine , it we●e another matter , and there were somewhat to be sayd ▪ but daily experience maketh it manifest , and your selfe also confesseth it , that it bringeth no more thi●her , then it carieth away from thence . And so vpon the reckening , it should seeme it is so farre from causing any annoyance or offence , that it rather cleanseth and preserueth those places , by keeping them much better , and sweeter , then otherwise . The second reason is , for that It is in quality and complexion , more hote and dry , then may be conueniently vsed daily of any man : much lesse of the hote , and cholericke constitution . True it is that the good temperament , and constitution of our bodies dependeth vpon the inst , and due proportion and mixture of the foure Elements : not that each body hath a like quantity , or proportion of the sayd Elements in them , by weight and measure : but according to the rules of iustice , and sufficiency for euery particular body to haue , they be so orderly mingled and proportioned , as is best for the health and strength of that particular body , to make him able to do , and performe , all those functions and actions , which are fittest for the body to do , and performe . For example sake , as that horse is said to haue his health best , and to be of a good constitution , which is best able in running , and other actions , to performe those things best , which appertaine to a horse , for to do : and as that dog likewise is said , to be best , & soundest , which in hunting , and smelling , &c. with best strength and agility performeth his functions : so is that man sayd to be in best plight of body and perfect health , which findeth himselfe best able to performe , and discharge all those actions which are agreeable for his body , and incident to the nature of man : so that , they and we consist of the like elements : but not of the like proportion & mixture of the same elemēts ; but yet of such a sufficient & cōuenient temperature , as shall be most befitting for the health and good estate of each creature in his degree . And of this due commixtion of these elements , riseth those foure compound temperaments , or complexions that are so famous : The Sanguine : the Cholericke : the Melancholy : and the Flegmaticke : all agreeing , in hauing all the Elements in them : yet all disagreeing , in hauing them proportioned a like in them ; and yet euery one well pleased in that quantity & proportion , which he hath , and enioyeth in himselfe . Now , whether these foresaid Elements be in our bodies substantially , and materially , as they be in nature , and essence : or only but the qualities , powers and properties of the same : so placed and conueyed , into the mould of our temperature , as they are able to worke , and be get their like effects in vs , and our bodies : that is a darke and a tedious question , and hath bred great contention among the learned : but yet , not much materiall to the purpose of that thing which we haue now in hand . But this one thing is to be noted by the way , that none of these temperatures , or complexions , are so narrowly scantled , or pent vp into such a streight , but that each one of them may in some sort , admit a certaine kind either of increase , or decrease , of his principall humor , whereof he carieth his denomination , and yet retaine his naturall and perfect constitution still . As for example : The sanguine man may leese some bloud , or else alter some part of the same : the cholericke man likewise , may either increase , or decrease some part of his choler ; and so of the rest : and yet retaine his health : and remaine of a sanguine , or a cholericke constitution still . For as the Base , and Treble in Musicke haue diuerse alterations of rising and falling in them , which I thinke ▪ they call keyes , and ●treines , all differing in proportion , yet in sound , and noyse , making all a pleasing musicall concord : so in like maner haue these constitutions , or complexions of ours , a certaine decent scope , or latitude ( as we call it ) to walke in : and yet for all that , each one of them , may be said to keepe his first strength , and constitution , with a sweete pleasing proportion and harmonie . Thus much being generally spoken : now let vs weigh your argument , and the materiall notes , and proofes , annexed to the same . In this place it is said by you : that , the daily vse of Tabacco , is not good for any man : much lesse for the cholericke constitution . If you meane , by these words , daily vse : too much , or immoderate vse ; I yeeld vnto it : and in that sence , it is not good , for any other complexion : be it neuer so cold , and Phlegmaticke . No more is any thing else , that I do k●ow . But if you meane by daily vse , the often and frequent vse thereof , and then meane that the frequent and often vse is not good for any , as here you say that it is not : then you contradict your selfe . For but euen now , in a few lines going before in your first Chapter , you said : many moist complexions , haue receiued great helpe , by the frequent vse of Tabacco , &c. which is flat against that , which you do now here affirme . But it had bene well done of you , here to haue put downe , which way of taking of Tabacco you do meane , when you thus condemne , the daily vse thereof . If you meane the daily taking of it in substance , as a foode , &c. I know none , for my part , that vseth it so ; if you meane , by infusion , or decoction , or otherwise , as a medicine to purge withall , &c. I thinke likewise none so mad , or so foolish , as to offend that way . But if you meane , by fume , and Pipe , as I thinke you do : how comes it then to passe , that you stand so greatly in feare of it now , when you confesse in another place : that ▪ the fume of it is not any matter , of any great importance , or able to make any great impression , too or fro , to do any great good , or ill at all . Me think ( as the poore old man said by his patcht torne cloke ) this geere hardly hange●h well together . And whereas this misliking of yours , seemeth to rise of his two manifest qualities that be in him : that is to say , ●or his great heat , and drinesse : why , you know , and I know , that hotter things then this is ▪ and drier too , are daily taken of all sorts , yea and of all complexions ; as Ginger , Pepper , Clo●es , ●raines , and Mace , and other good spices , as well with meat , as also in their daily drinke , suppinses , and cawdels : and yet for any thing , that either you , or I can see ; God be thanked , there comes no hurt at all in the world thereby . But why it should destroy , and consume natura●● heate and moisture , as you affirme , which are the principals of our life ; in truth I vnderstand not , vnlesse , as I said , the takers thereof , should make whole meales thereof , which I am sure no man doth . For then indeed it may be , it would worke that effect : and so would all your cordiall spices do also : if men should in that disorderly maner feede on them : as to make whole meales thereof . Whereas now being moderately taken : and yet daily too : they be great preseruers of health , in most sort of men , or rather in all kind of complexions : as a●l men I am sure , will confesse . That which is added out of Aristotle ; O●ne simile , additum simili , reddit ipsum simile magis simile : maketh lit●e for your purpose . For as your selfe confesseth , that ; Contraria contrarijs curantur : so I thinke you are as willing to confesse also : that , similia similibus nutriuntur . Now ●ir ; if Tabacco be hote and drie , as you put downe that it is , and the cholericke man hote likewise ; and then if ●●ke be increased with like : as Aristotle saith : or if like be nourished , maintained , and preserued with like , as Ph●sitions affirme : then like inough it is , that the choleric●e mans complexion , is rather preserued by Tabacco , then destroyed : presupposed alwaies , if it be moderately taken . It may be , you will here haue a kind of euasion , and a certaine starting hole : and I guesse well inough what it is , yet neuerthelesse I will not name it . But for anything that is yet said of you to the contrarie , this argument holdeth ; and so it shall rest for me . Moreouer , that Principle of Aristotle : Omne simile , additum simili , &c. must haue a nice interpretation , and must be rightly vnderstood : or else it is like inough , I tell you , to breede an errour . Like increaseth like , you say . It is true : but yet in quantitie it increaseth it , and not in qualitie : vnlesse that same like , be in a higher , and stronger degree , of qualitie and likenesse . And yet , how it should then rightly be called like , being by reason of a higher degree vnlike , for my part , I see not . As for example : hote water , being put to as hote water , maketh not that hote wa●er , hotter then it was , vnto the which it is put . It may well increase the substance , and quantitie of that hote water : but yet not the heate , and quality thereof . Then , vnlesse Tabacco , be hotter then choler , ( which will be very hard to proue ) it cannot increase choler in heate , and qualitie . But if it be colder in power and qualitie , ( as I thinke it will fall out , that it is ) then doth it rather abate , and suppresse the heate of choler , then increase it . For warme water , yea though it be good and warme water : yet because it is not so hote , as scalding hote water is , being put to scalding hote water ; it doth not increase his heate a whit : but rather cooleth it , I warrant you , try it when you will. Touching the great store , of vndigested , and crude humors , which are the effects of immoderate heates in vs , as you affirme ; and so consequently are cause and occasion of hote feuers ; I see no cause of any such feare by Tabacco . For if daily experience may serue for a sufficient proofe of the contrarie : I for my part , haue seene none at all : neither hath any man else I am sure knowne any ; or at the least , very few , among so many thousands , that daily take it , that haue fallen into agues directly vpon the taking of Tabacco : and therefore , euen by that experiment also it doth seeme vnto me , that the taking thereof , especially in fume , ( which as your selfe graunteth , hath very , small force to worke any great matter vpon our bodies ) can cause no such fierie , and extreame heate in the bodie , as is by you supposed , but rather , if it do giue any heate , yet that heate is rather a familiar , and a pleasing heate , then an immoderate , extraordinarie , and an aguish distemperature . And as for them that affirme , Agues to be cured by Tabacco , as you say ; if any vnlearned so say : in my iudgement , it is an vnsauory speech , & without sence or methode , and I leaue it to them that so say , to defend it as they can . But it may be , you mistake them . Possible it is , that their saying , yea , and their meaning too , is thus : that in the curing of Agues , Tabacco , may haue his good vse , if he be rightly vsed : as well as other purgatiues haue . And that opinion well vnderstood , is not greatly amisse . For if Purgations , being done in good order , and conueniently giuen in their due times , and seasons , be one of the especiall helpes , to rid and cure rotten Agues , as you know it is : then it is like inough ▪ that Tabacco , by his purging facultie , may do much good , by taking away the cause of the Ague , as other Purgations do . For if you thinke it can do no good that way , because it is hote and drie : then by that reason likewise , no Purgatiues in a maner , that the old auncient writers did vse , can do any good that way . For that they were all , or most of them of the same nature , hote and dry : as for example : Elleborus , Colocinth , Elatery , Esulus , Scammony : which was not onely vsed by them in a manner altogether : but at this day also , is one of the most common , and vsuallest things that we haue ; especially , in our great , and magistrall compositions . As for the daunger that you presuppose ▪ is in the often vse of Tabacco , to them that be in health , for dissipating , & consuming that wholesome humor , by often vomits , seeges , sweatings , spittings , and coughings , which otherwise would be turned to good bloud , and nourishment : and all this to be done to by the fume of Tabacco , ( which by and by vanisheth away , as all smokes do . ) In my fancy , all this is but a meere imagination : and directly against that which your selfe hath sayd already : affirming that the fume hath no great force to worke , any matter of moment in our bodies , as also flat against common and daily experience . For neither I , nor you , nor any man else , in my opiniō , euer did see , that the fume ( for of that your talke must be , or else you talke to no purpose ) which is the thing onely that is in daily vse , did euer worke , any great purgings , or vomits , or sweates : or if it did at any time : yet it was by a meere accident and chance ; which is nothing to purpose . As for the other humidities , which as you say , it prouoketh , from the braine , and other parts of the head : a man may thinke , that those things may as conueniently be done , and with as litle hurt or danger with Tabacco , as we see them daily done by your Errhinaes , and Nasaliaes , and Sternutatories , which are vsually giuen in Phisicke by the nose , to procure sneesing , and clammy filth to come downe that way : or by your Mastichatories , which you vse to chew and to prouoke the passing away of offensiue humours by the mouth : or by your expertorating medicines , and procurers of Phleagme to be discharged , and auoided by coughings . But if your meaning be , that it consumeth only that humidity , which is layed vp in the stomach , as in a store-house , to serue to good purpose hereafter ; euen in that point also , you are deceiued , considering the great waterishn●sse , and ouermuch moisture , of our country , and the people thereof : as shal be more at large spoken of hereafter : in so much that there is a great deale mor● feare and care to be had , of the offences , that may grow by too much humiditie in the stomacke ; then any whit , to stand in feare , of any great matter , or harme that may ensue , vpon the abating of the abundance , of that humiditie and moisture . And now : whereas you affirme , it maketh , the grosse , and foggy , to be leane , &c. If this be certaine , which by you is put downe and auouched , you haue giuen Tabacco , one of the greatest praises , that can be deuised . And if there were no other matter , why it should be had in good regard : yet for this only point it deserueth immortall praise . You are not ignorant I am sure , how many learned men , haue of long time labored , and do daily busie themselues from time , to time , how to de●ise remedies , to make the grosse , and foggy man , leane , in some reasonable measure , and yet notwithstanding , you see , how few haue , or can effect the same . For my part , I would I were indebted to you , in a good round summe of money , that I might be assured , Tabacco , could worke that feate . Do you but assure me , that it can do it indeed : and I will be bound to assure you , that no Consumption , or decay , either of naturall heat , or radicall & substantiall moisture , shal follow vpon the taking of Tabacco . But to come something close to the point . If Phisicke haue any direct , and ordinary meanes to pull downe a grosse and foggy body , as you call it : in my conceit , it must be , by conuenient competent euacuations , and drying diets , fit , and agreeable for the purpose . Now sir : if those ordinary remedies which are vsuall in the common course of Phisicke , for the abating of ouermuch foggy fatnesse , are , and ought to be of the same quality and condition that Tabacco is : that is to say , hote , and dry : and notwithstanding the daily vse of them , yet for all that , we stand no whit in feare , that either consumptions , or decay of naturall heate and moisture , will ensue vpon the vse thereof , when they are ministred : what is the reason then , why we should be so much afeard , of the vsing of Tabacco , in the like case , hauing the selfe same properties , that other medicines either haue , or should haue , being vsed to the same effect , and purpose ? And whereas you imagine it is very vnapt , to breed good nourishment ( and vpon that hangeth the greatest weight , and moment of your reasons : ) I see not well , how that can be : except it be , by one of these two meanes following : that is to say , either because Tabacco it selfe maketh not good nourishment , if it be taken into the body : or else because Tabacco decayeth and destroyeth , the chiefest instrument , that maketh good nourishment for our bodies , which is the stomach . If we meane , it breedeth no good nourishment of it selfe , as other good meates do : I yeeld thereunto , as I sayd before : and confe●●e as much now : neither did I euer take Tabacco , to be any good meate at all : neither doth any man vse it for foode , that I know . But if your meaning be , that therefore it hindreth good nourishment , because it hindreth , and destroyeth the chiefest instrument of good nourishment , I meane our stomach : in my iudgement , you are farre deceiued : for it is rather a principall helpe in that respect , then any hinderer at all . For if ouermuch moisture be a great hinderer of the stomach , by relaxing of it : and by dulling the desire , and appetite of meate : and if great cold be another great enemy , to the same ; for that it hindereth , and decayeth good concoction : then Tabacco , as Tabacco hauing the contrary qualities , that is to say , being hote , and dry , is no such ill meanes to amend those foresayd defects , and infirmities of the stomach , as you presupposed that it is . I say , Tabacco , as Tabacco : that is , as Tabacco I meane rightly , and moderatly vsed : for too much wood , suddenly , and out of order heaped on , choaketh , and putteth out the fire : and too much good wine , being immoderatly and excessiuely swilled in , though of his owne nature it be warme , and comfortable , yet , so taken , it killeth and extinguisheth naturall heate : and so in this , as in other things , the common saying is fulfilled : Too much of any thing , is good for nothing . Your discourse of smels , is for the most part true and pretty , and very well to be liked : but yet in all parts , but weake , and faint , to proue the matter in hand . The Aristotelians , and the Galenists , are at a iarre about the nature of smels : and some of the old writer● ; as also some of the latter to , yea , and those of the best sort , and greatest fame : haue much a do about this point : to proue that sweet swels do nourish , and are mightily puzzled in it . But yet to be briefe , in this point , for my part , I do ●ssen● vnto you , and am of opinion , as you are , that sweete smels do nourish . But yet the principall point in question remaineth still in doubt : which is this : whether Tabacco stinke , or no ? Then , whether it do stinke in that high degree , that it doth breed such great offence to nature , as it must needs be abhorred so much , as you do beare vs in hand it must . And by the way : if it do stinke : is it therefore to be thought vtterly vnprofitable , to be vsed , in Phisicke ? For the deciding of this question , whether it stinke , or no : I know no better way , or directer course , then to appeale to the multitude of indifferent voices . True it is , that as all noses are not alike in shape , and making but some are long noses , some short : some thin , and sharpe , as they say shrewes be : some great and botteld , as I know whose is : so is there great variety of iudgement in their smels , and that which pleaseth one much displeaseth another : as appeared by the merry tale of the Collier , that passing through Bucklersbury , fell into a kind of trance , with the sweete smels of that street , and was reuiued againe with the smell of , you wot what , if all Caunterbury tales be true . But yet thus much I do know , and I thinke your selfe also will not deny ; That men of great learning and iudgement , men of right good bringing vp , men of fine , and deinty diet , men of good worth , and worship , yea men , of right honorable estate , and calling ; do like of the smell of Tabacco well inough . Why then should it be so mightily condemned by you , for such an horrible stinker ? If it were possible to haue , so great an assembly , of so indifferent , and worthy Iudges for this matter , as there is now , a most honorable meeting , at this very instant in the high Parliament for other greater matters , & if it might be put to their indgement , assure your selfe , it would go against you , and you would quite be ouerthrowne : and for one voice of your side , there would be twenty , at the least on the other ; and all for Tabacco . For I can tell you , that this is held for an infallible rule , and to be one of the most perfectest signes of good Tabacco ; that it be sweete , and yeeld a kind of pleasing , fragrant , aromaticall smell . But by the way of admittance , let it be sayd , that it hath a kind of ranke , or vnpleasant sauour . What then ? shall it therefore be banished out of the vse of Phisicke ? or if it bring , a greater commodity with it , shall it therefore , for a little ranke smell , be reiected ? Smell me to the simple , called Vuluaria : or to your Castoreum : or to your Assa foetida , called of some Stercus Diaboli , or to your great composition of Mithridat , the glory of Phisicke , and the wonder of the world : and such other , which are no small fooles in the course of Phisicke : and I beleeue , when you haue but once handled some of them ; you would thanke him , that would bring you a little good Tabacco , to helpe to put away those smels , and to sweeten your selfe againe . If men did cōmend Tabacco , to make Pomanders withall : or for lip-salue , or for fine perfumes , and sweete smels , for Ladies chambers , it were another matter : and might perchance haue bene instly misliked . Your storie of Ambrose Pary , is farre fetcht , and to no purpose in all the world . What needed you to haue fetched your proofes out of Fraunce , to perswade that ill smels do offend ? Euery dūghil in England , and something else too , can testifie that well inough . And here I must needs tell you by the way , that your speeches , be a litle too much exceeding , and as I might tearme them , too farre transcendent , and your comparisons too vnequall , when you inueigh against poore Tabacco . For when you talke of his manifest qualities , which are hot , and dry , and yet that to not excessiue : but in some measurable manner , yet you terme him to be , fi●ry , hellish , burning , scorching , out of Plutoes forge , and the like : whereas indeede , there is no such matter : and ye● vpon that hyperbolicall ground , as I may say , are most 〈◊〉 your arguments builded . As if a man should reason thus : Because too great a fire , and therewithall standing too neare vnto it , doth burne a man : therefore , a moderate fire , with a reasonable distance standing from it , were not fit to warme a man pleasingly , and with delight . Or because scalding hot water , is fitter to scald a pig , then to trim a mans beard : therefore luke-warme water ▪ is not good to be vsed in Barbors basons : for euen much a like hang these your arguments together ▪ And now , in like manner , what a comparison haue you pickt out ▪ be●weene Tabacco , and that most hatefull thing , the plag●●● He that knoweth not of what a monsterous deepe , filthy , corrupt , stinking putrefaction , the plague proceedeth , being able not onely to infect another : but also to beget in a second person , in a third , yea and in a fourth man , another monsterous , stinking , contagious seminarie as he calleth it ( a Seminarie Priest if ye will ) like to himselfe ; let him but reade that learned Fracastorius vpon that point in his bookes De morbis contagiosis ; and he shall be satisfied . And now alas , what comparison is there betweene the smell of such a monster , and poore Tabacco : whose smell is deemed no worse of such as loue him , and are men of good account , and of a dainty sence , then to haue a certaine , drying , odoriferous , aromaticall sauour : and of such as hate him , yet if they do him right , and be not too partiall , can be thought to be but something hote in smell , and as it were a little rancke at the most . Touching the story of D. T. it dieth of it selfe : and is to as little purpose , as the other of Ambrose Pary . Yea , and if it be well scand , it is directly against your selfe . For you confesse , he would not for a hundreth pounds , but that he had vsed it : and why ? himselfe answereth : for thereby saith : he found great ease , of his cold , and rheumaticke stomach . So that vpon this mans confession : Tabacco is nothing so ill a thing , or such a terrible bugge , as you haue made him , to hinder nourishment , or to destroy and ouerthrow concoction . For , as you see , it mended his stomach , which was weake , and feeble before . And whereas he saies , he cannot , now leaue it : euen in that also , he seemeth by implication as it were , to confesse : That there is no such horrible ill smell in it , as you preten● there is . For if D. T. be he , whom I do thinke , you meane : then do I knowe the man well , and knowe him also to be a very learned gentleman : and of a fine graine , as also to be a moderate , sweete , ciuill gentleman , in all his whole cariage of his life : and if the stinke were so offensiue , as you would make it to be , assure your selfe , a man of his gentlemanly course of life , and dainty nature , would haue the discretion in common sence , to shun , and abhorre it . As for the saying of the Noble man ; it must be taken , and regarded , as a particular speech , of an honourable person , that could not abide Tabacco , and as the testimony onely of one ; and for that one , you shall haue a dozen , of the same order , and degree , to thinke , and to say the contrary . The third reason , is , for that It is experimented and tried , to be a most strong , and violent purgation : and for proofe of this : you appeale : To the often scourings , vomits , sweats , and other immoderate euacuations incident into this simple . Tabacco to be a purgatiue , or to haue a purging facultie , is no dispraise in all the world , that I know . No , nor yet to be a strong , and violent purgatiue , deserueth any whit more discommendation , then other purgatiues do , being of the same nature and degree , & which for all that , are held in such high price , and great estimation in Phisicke , as your selfe knoweth . For what is more violent , then Elleborus , Colocinth , Elatery , Euphorb , Scammony : and such like ; and yet what daily vse there is of them , and with what good effect , and safety also , being carefully , and artificially handled , and prepared , who seeth not ? A good rider had rather haue , a strong , hote , stirring , ready running horse , then a weake , lame , sluggish iade , as I take it . And giue me a sharpe fine edged , cutting knife , to eate my meate withall , rather then a dull penny whittle , fit to cut butter withall , when it is warme , as the common Prouerbe is . But here perchance you will say , a meane betweene both , is best ; and so perchance say I , to . But yet for all that , the strength of your argument is broken . For , as neither a strong , stirring horse , nor a sharpe knife , is to be misliked , in themselues , or for themselues ; but if any offence grow by them , it is either by the vnskilfulnesse , or by the negligence of the one or the other : so fareth it with the secrets , and mysteries of Phisicke . Againe , your selfe confesseth , and I likewise do confesse , that this is true , that you haue said : that is to say : If a Purgation do not purge , that humor which should be purged , but lyeth drowned in the body without any working : then the Purgation increaseth that humor which should haue bene purged , and thereby doth rather much harme , then any good at all . So that hereby it is to be gathered , that the danger is rather in weake , and sluggish Purgations , then in such , as are quicke , nimble , and actiue ; if they be handled skilfully , and according to art . Let the Phisition be learned , and know how to direct , correct , and bridle him , and you may turne him loose . So that euen in this respect also , Tabacco deserueth great commendation , if it be well , and skilfully vsed . I would no● haue any man to mistake me here , and to thinke , that my meaning is , in these speeches , to condemne , or dispraise , our mild , and gentle Purgatiues , which are now so much in vse , and are called : Benedicta medicament● : most holy , and blessed medicines . For that is no part of my meaning , neither doth any man more vse them , in all his practise , then my selfe doth . But all my speech tendeth to this end : that whereas it is most manifest , that there is , and may be good vse , and profite made of both medicines , as well of that which is strong , and violent , as of that which is a gentle , and a mild Purgatiue , if they be rightly vsed : therefore I thinke it great pitie , and against reason too , that where both I say , may be well vsed , there any one of them , should be condemned , or misliked . But this fault , that you do find by his purging propertie , toucheth nothing the taking of him , by Pipe , or fume : for it is well knowne , that , by that way , it worketh none of those effects , that you talke of . And yet it should ●eeme that the chiefest thing , that you shoote at , to condemne Tabacco for : is only for the great harmes and discommodities , that vse to come by the smoke , or fume thereof , as your selfe termeth it . And for that cause , it should appeare , you haue entituled your Booke : Worke for the Chimny-sweepers , &c. And as for this smoke , which is the vsuall thing , that is so much inueighed against : vpon my credite , there is no such daungerous purgings or euacuations to be feared to come that way , as you talke of . Some litle deale of waterish , cold , superfluous , Phlegmaticke matter perchaunce , is auoyded that way by Tabacco , as is well knowne : not much otherwise , then is auoided by chewing of Masticke , and Mastichatories , by the mouth ; but yet Tabacco doth it much better then they : or else is discharged , and auoided by sneezing medicines , and cleansings , s●uffings vp into the nose : but yet Tabacco performeth that also , much more plentifully , and much more easily , then all they : and yet as safely too , as euery man doth see . And whereas you conclude , that hereby it is apparant , that : ( in regard of the harmes , that do depend vpon his violent quality in purging ) it can therefore neither in health , nor sicknesse , be so vulgarly , and commonly vsed : all this is to be graunted , so farfoorth , as you meane to condemne thereby , the ouer rash , and inconsiderate vse thereof ; which , I do thinke , your selfe doth meane , by those words which you haue put downe , when you say : So vulgarly and commonly vsed . And in this point , I do agree with you . But yet for all that , I say it proueth no more against Tabacco , then it doth against all other Purgatiues vsed in Phisicke . For if they likewise , be daily , and rashly vsed : and out of season : then are they also , in like maner , for the selfe same reasons , and for the great mischiefes , that may come thereby , to be as well reiected , and condemned , as Tabacco . And as for all those authorities , which you haue cited out of Hippocrates : they are good rules , and good sayings I graunt : but yet they tend to no other end , but onely to put vs in mind what we haue to do : and to giue vs a friendly Caueat , as it were , to take heede that we abuse them not . And therefore your selfe said very well , a litle before : that no Purge , be he familiar , and gentle : or otherwise strong and violent , ought to be familiarly , or daily vsed . This position is most true , being spoken of all Purgatiues ; and reacheth to Tabacco also , if Tabacco be vsed daily as a Purgatiue . But for my part , I know no man , that vseth it as a Purgatiue daily , be it , either in in●usion , or decoction , or in a Sirupe , or Electuarie made for that purpose , or in the way o● an extract , or any other way else , to that vse and seruice . If any man do it , let him do it , at his owne perill . For he that will haue the Pigge , or Goose rosted , after his owne fashion , as they are wont to say in my countrie , and will not vse the helpe , and aduice of the skilfull Cooke therein , then if any thing chance to be amisse in the rosting , yet let the poore Pigge , and the poore Goose go scot-free . For the Goose you know , may be a good Goose , ( as the goodwife said to her goodman : ( goose ) let him do as he wil : ) but yet let the blame light , a Gods name , where it is ; that is , vpon the ouersight , and indiscretion of the partie , that would needes haue it so dressed , according to his owne mind , and fashion . So , if they will be busie , and fall a purging , without the aduice , of the honest , and learned Phisition , let them take their pleasure , in the name of God : but if they chaunce to catch copper , by the way , let them thanke themselues . The fourth Reason is ; for that It withereth , and dryeth naturall moisture in our bodies : thereby causing sterilitie , and barrennesse : in which respect , it seemeth an enemie to the propagation of mankind , &c. For better strengthening of this assertion : you affirme , that it depriueth the bodie of nourishment , and foode . And to proue this last point , you affirme , that it spendeth and euacuateth , out of vs by spitting , and sweates , and otherwise , much of that matter , that in time would proue in vs , good bloud , and good foode for our bodies . I graunt , that there is in euery mans bodie for the most part a certaine kind of superfluous Phlegmaticke humor : as also one other excrement , which shall be namelesse , which though it be an excrement , yet , it is called by the name of a Profitable excrement , and may serue , and doth serue sometime , to supply the place of nourishment , and foode : and therefore may well beare the name , of Nutrimentum futurum , as some do tearme it . Albeit , there is another vse also of that said humiditie , which is laid vp in the store-house of our body : as that learned Huernius , hath well noted , comparing the bodie of man to the frame of the world ; hauing the great Ocean sea so placed in it as it is , that by his sufficiēt moisture , and humiditie , he might still temper the great excessiue heate of the Sunne , which otherwise , if that were not , wold go neare happily , with his cōtinual hote beames , to set the whole world a fire . The like vse , saith he , hath that same moisture , and humiditie in our bodies , &c. But that this good matter for nourishment , should be exhausted , and consumed , in that excessiue maner , by the vse of poore Tabacco , being taken in smoke , ( for so you meane I thinke , or else , you say nothing to the purpose ) there neede no feare at all in all the world to be had of any such matter . Nay , rather in my opinion , if it be well examined , it will be found a great helper , and maintainer , of that true natural good humiditie , which in time would become good nourishment , as you say ; rather then a hinderer of the same : as hath alreadie partly bene shewed before in your second Chapter , and shall hereafter more at large be declared . And for proofe thereof let this reason be something regarded , which followeth . This our countrie , and natiue soile of England , is an Island , and the most famous Island in Christendome , as all the world knoweth . And be it , but for that we are Islanders , yet , euen in that respect , for the very situation of our countrie , we are by nature subiect , to ouermuch moisture , and rheumaticke matter . Now , adde vnto this , that English men commonly are great eaters , nay rather great surfetters , and do delight much , and a great deale more , then any Nation else , in varietie , and number of sundrie meates , and dishes , whereof the Prouerbe came , Tam satur , quàm Anglus . And yet go farther . Englishmen , are now become excessiue great ●rinkers , not onely of Beere , and Ale , but also , of all kind of wine , no Nation in the world , more . And moreouer beside all this : we English men , offend as much in idlenesse , in carelesse sittings vp , and watchings , and distempering of our bodies , in royotous sports and pastimes , and in loosenesse of liuing , as any people vnder the Sun , whatsoeuer . By all which inordinate meanes : that same good and necessarie moisture , which nature prouideth , and layeth vp in store to do vs good withall , is commonly so far surcharged , and choked , with another vnprofitable crude humiditie , that she seemeth daily to make her mone , and to call for helpe , to haue that superfluous and combersom enemie remoued , and consumed : which otherwise wold be an impediment , to the remainder of that other good , & natural moisture , which nature would willingly prouide , for the supply of nourishment , and other good vses . For as Conduits , if they had not vents for to spend their wast water , would in time , either breake , or else become vnprofitable : so in our bodies , this vnnaturall , and ouer great increase of vnnecessary humidities and moistures , being made by those meanes which I mentioned before , would breed great annoyances , if they were not lessened and wasted , by some deuice , or other . Now , here perchaunce , you will say vnto me : Why ? How did men in times past , before Tabacco was known ? what helps had they then ? or how liued they in those daies ? All this is nothing to the purpose : and is as soone answered by me , as obiected by you . For admit they liued more orderly then , then we do now , and so perchaunce , had no need at all , of other helpes : ( which for all that I hardly beleeue ) or rather ●ay thus : ( which indeede is the liker of the two ) that they had other helps , and deuices , to serue their turnes ; which in their opiniō , was as good as Tabacco : yet all this doth not proue , that Tabacco is not good for the same purpose now ; as wel as those former things were then , whatsoeuer they were . Well it may proue , that Tabacco , is a thing later deuised and found out : but yet it proueth nothing at all , that because it was found out & deuised but of late to speak of , therfore it hath no force , & vertue at all to do good , but rather to hurt , as you would haue it . Let Tabacco , be a later deuice then the rest ; if ye wil : but at my request : I pray you let it be a better : for any thing that I see . For farther strengthening of this argument of yours , you alledge , that the great heat , and vnmeasurable drinesse of Tabacco , dissipateth naturall heat , whereby concoction is hindred , & by that means , many raw humors increased , &c. In which saying in my opinion , you do far misse the cushion . And this is the very point , that in all your discourse , is the chiefest cause and occasion of all your errors , as I haue said alreadie before . For you do reason still , as though there were such a fierie heat in Tabacc● , and such an exceeding extreame drinesse , as nothing might wel be deuised hotter , or drier . You know the old schoole-saying : Vno impossibili dato , sequitur quodlibet . Grant you but that false Principle once , and then any thing indeed will follow . It is not vnknowne to you , and the learned , that superexcelling obiects , weaken and destroy the senses , be they neuer so perfect : for example sake ; the exceeding brightnes , and the cleare shining of the Sunne , ouercommeth our sight , insomuch , that the more firmly & attentiuely , you do gaze vpon it ( as many tried it but euen this last day , when it was eclipsed ) the ●linder you are . What then ? and shall it therfore follow , ●hat his moderat , and comfortable shining , shal put out our eye-sight ? Who sees not , that the extreme hot burning fire , presently killeth , and destroyeth that bodie , that is cast into it ? and yet for all that , I hope the moderat , and pleasing warmth of the same fire , whē we stand by it , yeeldeth no offence at all : but rather is a great cōfort vnto vs : if Tabacco had that superexcelling heat , or such an exceeding drinesse , as you seeme to attribute vnto it ; it were another matter . But it is neither so , nor so . I neuer yet heard in all my life , that moderat heat , or things that be hote in some measurable meane and degree as Tabacco is , either did , or could dissipate , or decay naturall heat . If that were so , thē are they , in a good pickle , that cherish their stomacks with spices , and warme drinks . Vsquabah , and D. Steeuens water , Rosa solis , and Aqua vitae , greene Ginger , preserued Nutmegs , and the three Peppers , and the like , might go a begging . What stronger men haue you or more actiue , then our Irish people ? I hope they neuer came to that strength at the first , or maintained it , now they haue it , with drinking of snow water . And if Tabacco be not by many ods , and degrees beneath all these things that I haue talked of , in heate , and drinesse , then let me lose my credite . And yet for farther proofe of your argument , you alledge that by the same extreme heat of Tabacco : bloud being vndigested and crude , becometh vnfit for the sperme and seed of man , & therby is hindred the propagation of mankind by this hellish smoke , out of Plutoes forge . This reason wholy dependeth vpō the same foundation that the other did , and therfore may well receiue the same answer , that the other had . So that in a matter vnnecessarie , there needeth not any necessary speech to be had . But whereas you do confidently affirme : that Tabacco cureth the disease called Gonorrhaea : and there uppon would seeme to inferre , that therefore it hindreth propagation : good Lord , how are you deceiued therein ? and yet in so saying , what an excellent gift , and vertue haue you found out in Tabacco ? and what a si●gular praise , haue you put downe , on Tabaccoes side ? I for my part , haue as much labored , in the curing of that disease , as perchance , most men haue , of our profession : and I hope to , with as good successe . But if I had thought , in all the time of my practise , that Tabacco , had bene such a fellow , and had had any such prerogatiue , in the cure of that disease ; assure your selfe , I would haue bene better acquainted with him then I am ; & I would haue giuen him right good entertainement . I will not vse many words in this matter for diuers good , & honest respects : neither enter into any discourse , to rip vp , the diuerse kinds , natures , and differences , of that loathsome disease ; or once seeme to mention the causes , & occasions thereof , or to deale with any part of his remedies . But let this only suffice , for an infallible principle , & a thing to be maintained , against all gaine sayers : That whatsoeuer is good to cure that sicknesse : that selfe same thing is singular good , to helpe and farther propagation ; if it be orderly administred , and rightly vnderstood . For what thing in the world is there , that is a greater enemy to generation , then that disease is ? Tum quia corrumpi● totum nostrum corpus , & reddit ipsum semen languidum , & effoetum : tum quia ipsa generandi etiam instrumenta , nimis flaccida facit , & ad cocundum prorsus inepta . Sed hoc in loco , parcè , timideque loquendum est . Noui enim quàm sint malè morata haec nostra tempora , & in quàm audax oeuum , a● dissolutam aetatem inciderimus : Quocirca , vt & decentiae , & pudoris , ac verecundiae iusta , & honesta ratio habeatur , arbitramur multò meliùs esse , hìc consistere , quàm longiùs progredi . The fifth reason is : for that It decaieth , and dissipateth naturall heate , that kindly warmth in vs ; and thereby is cause of crudities , and rheumes , occasion of infinite maladies , &c. These obiections , are much like vnto those that went before : and are already sufficiently answered . But yet for farther satisfaction : let this yet , be remembred by the way : That in another place before ; your selfe hath confessed : That in cold , rheumaticke , hydropicall bodies , &c. Tabacco may do much good . And now is it become , the cause of increase , of these rheumes , and cold waterish humors in our bodies ? here is a great alteration indeed , vpon a sudden . Likewise in another place , you sayd , it cured D. T. ofhis cold rheumaticke stomach . And as I take it , that was done : by giuing of it some increase of good heate , with a sufficient drinesse : for otherwise I know , he could not haue bene cured . For this is flat , and plaine , that contraria , contrarijs curantur . And I am sure , your selfe also , is of that opinion . And is Tabacco , now found out to be a decayer , and dissipator , of that naturall kindly heate , which heretofore , it did giue , and procure to others ? by your owne confession ? By my fay : the reconciling of these , and the like speeches ( whereof , there be diuerse in your booke ) will put a wiser man then I am , or your selfe either , to cast about , and to seeke the bottome of his wits , how it may be brought to passe . But for that the proofe of this your fifth reason , hangeth vpon the proofe of your fourth argument , as your selfe saith , and for that cause , your selfe also is willing to referre vs ouer , to that fourth part of your Discourse : euen so will I do to : and so here rest a while . And in the meane time , if it will please you to giue me leaue to enter into the consideration , of some of your pretty odde conceits , which you haue here set downe in this chapter , I will thanke you . The troth is , I feare me , I am not very well able to conceiue your meaning thoroughly , by reason , that , to my thinking , in the deliuering of them , you do vse , diuerse kinds of windings , in , and out , and as it were certaine turnings to , and fro ; that are not altogether voyde of obscurity : but it may be , it is my weakenesse in vnderstanding , and not your darkenesse in penning . And therfore in truth , I craue pardon , if I chance to make an offence in mistaking , &c. One of your conceits is this : That much hardnesse , and drinesse is the occasion , that moisture , cannot enter . If you meane by these words : hard , and dry : an excessiue , and an extreame hardnesse , and drinesse in the highest degree : then it may be yeelded vnto . As , for example : A hard flint , or a marble stone : or a hote , hard , dry gad of steele , will admit no moisture into it , I confesse : though you powre neuer so much water vpon them . But what is this to Tabacco ? or what analogie , or proportion , is there betweene our bodies , and these things ? though old bodies be dry , and hard too : yet are they neuer so dry , and hard , but they can admit moisture well inough : like as when the earth is verie dry , in so much , that it is thereby full of chaps , and chinkes , because it is a porous bodie , as we call it , and in some sort spongious , it is therfore apt , & able to receiue great moisture , and to drinke in mightie showers of raine , as daily experience sheweth : albeit , as it should seeme , you are of a contrary opinion . And euen so , fareth it with our bodies . Another conceit of yours is this : That drinesse , doth not onely hinder the receiuing of moisture : but also by that meanes , it is an enemy to nourishment , as you inferre vpon it . First , to answer you merily : and so I pray you to take it ; all the suckgrouts in London , and all the whole company of tiplers , of which societie , I tell you , there is not the least number , will be all vpon you with open voice , and come all against you in this : to testifie : That drinesse neuer hindered as yet , the receiuing , and imbibing in of any good liquor . But in good sadnesse , I thinke you speake and meane this , of an exceeding great drinesse , and in the highest degree , and such as cannot be found in our bodies : for so it must needes be that you meane , and no otherwise . And in that sence , I assure you ouermuch wet also , is as great an enemy to nourishmēt ; as by this familiar example may soone appeare . Admit a very good meddow , be ouermuch glutted with water : and altogether ouerwhelmed as it were , with continuall raine : and you shall see , what wise hay , and what trim grasse , you shall haue of that meddow . So that vpon the reckening , lay but the hare-worts , against the goose-giblets , as we are wont to say : and for my part , I see not , but that Tabacco , may worke as much good to vs , in the auoiding of too much moisture , as it is like to bring harme , in the procuring of too much drinesse . Touching your painting out of olde age , with his stiffe , and dry sinewes , and with many other of his infirmities , and imperfections ; I confesse them all to be true , and wish with all my hart , that I were able to remedie them : were it but to amend , some crooked conditions in my selfe ▪ and some thing else . But yet I see no reason , why that great cold , should not be as great an occasion of the increase of all these harmes , and imperfections in old age , as any thing else that can be named . For he that thinketh not , that cold hath a mightie strength , to worke a wonderfull hardnesse , and drinesse : let him but remember this last great frost in Nouember last past , or if he hath bene in some of these great cold countries , such as Russia , ( where in very deed I neuer was , although not verie farre from it , when it was ) he can then tell , that the ground is so hard and dry , and all by the reason of cold onely , for one halfe yeare , or thereabout , that they are enforced to leaue their dead bodies vnburied during all that time , being not able with any instrument in the world , to enter into the earth , and to breake it vp ; vntill the Sunne be come about againe to relent , and mollifie the same . So that thus I conclude : whether we take Tabacco : or take no Tabacco : yet seeing all those infirmities , and imperfections , which you haue reckened vp , do follow old age euen by the course of nature , much like as the shadow waiteth vppon our bodies : and seeing that great cold , either is , or may be , as great , an increaser , and hastiner of those infirmities , as any one thing else is , that can be named in all the world : and seeing our poore friend Tabacco , hath a good and a speciall property , to resist , that professed great enemy , the cold : me ●hinke , it were a reasonable sute , to intreate , that Tabacco , might rather be esteemed as a friend , then a foe , euen to old age also : whose heate in this case no doubt , is rather a pleasure , then any offence at all vnto old men . And yet you haue one other conceit more , which maintaineth one of the strangest opinions , that euer I heard of in all my life , as olde as I am : and that is this : That by reason of hote and dry Sommers in haruest time , the greatest waters , and land flouds are most wont to appeare , &c. This in very truth , is a point beyond Eela : and I am not able to reach vnto it , or to vnderstand it . It was my chance to stand by , when it was ; when that a Noble man in this land , was in an exceeding great rage , with a certaine gentleman , an acquaintance of mine , a very proper man , and a stout . The Noble man grew into such choler with him , that at the length , he all to be knaued the gentleman : and often times repeated these words : I tell thee , thou art a knaue : nay I tell thee troth , thou art a very knaue . The gentleman , stood long mute , and sayd neuer a word , but at the length , he could hold no longer , but burst out into these words : As God iudge me , my Lord : If your Lordship , should tell me neuer so oft , that I am a knaue , yet you shall pardon me : for , by God , I will neuer beleeue it , and sayd not one word more . The like answer I must be bold to make vnto you : for if you tell me neuer so oft , that dry Sommers , make great water flouds : yet in very truth , I will neuer beleeue it . And what your meaning is in so saying , I protest I know not : but this I wot well , & I am sure of : that vpon this last great drought that we had , as well in the Sommer time , as also in the fall this yeare , the riuer of the Thamis , was become so shallow , and dry as it were : that the poore Westerne barges complained much of their hard passages downe the riuer , to serue her Maiestie , and her Maiesties citie of London , while she lay at Richmond : and now since her Maiestie i● come to White-hall , to : I know , diuerse good farmers , that are enforced to driue their cattell two miles , and more , to water them : who were wont to haue great store and plenty of water , euen at their owne doores , before this hote , and dry weather came to drie vp their springs . And therefore to thinke that dry Sommers , is cause of great waters , in my opinion , is nothing else , but to dreame of a dry Sommer . The sixt reason is , for that This herbe , or rather weede : seemeth not voide of venome , and thereby seemeth an enemy , to the life of man , &c. I marry , this is a matter of some importance indeed , and would be well looked vnto . But by the way , this discourse , of venomes or poysons , would rather be tripped ouer , then much dwelt vpon , for diuerse good respects . The times being so dangerous , as they are ; I think● it not conuenient to meddle with any such matters , and such gaps as these be , would not , so rashly , and vnaduisedly be opened , to the common people . I knew a Preacher once , and a verie honest learned man , who meant no harme , I dare sweare for him , yet inueighing in his Sermon earnestly , against the wickednesse of this age , and telling of the bad dealing , that lewd Ostlers vsed , about the greasing of their horse teeth , and the like vnhonest trickes , that Bailifes vsed , about the altering , and changing , of cowes hornes , that were missing , and strayed abroad : did more harme in repeating these deceitfull sleights , then all the rest of his Sermon could do good to his auditorie . And you also in this place , by your leaue , might , in my opinion , haue bene something better aduised , then to haue vsed , so liberall , or rather so lauishing a kind of talke , both of poysons , and of purgatiue medicines : still coupling of them together , in such an odious hatefull manner , as you do . Whereas , in very deed , there is no such matter , if things be rightly vnderstood , as hereafter shall better appeare . In the meane time , yet happie it is , that God himselfe , hath pronounced by himselfe , that he is the author of Phisicke , and hath therefore commanded , the Phisition , to be had in some good regard and reuerence for his knowledge sake . Otherwise , if such tales as you haue told of poysons , and of purgatiues , should be beleeued : ( as indeed , God be thanked , they are not to be credited ) Phisitions might say they haue spun a fine threed , and brought their hogs to a faire market : and Phisicke her selfe might haue great cause to reioyce , for bringing vp , so dutifull , and so good a child , as you are . What ? hath Phisicke , hitherto bene counted the most excellent gift of the Highest , and bene called by the ancient writers , the hand , and finger of God , for his wonderfull effects , and operations : and is it now in your iudgement nothing else but a hodge podge , and a mingle mangle of poysons ? If this be so : then it is more then high time , for her Maiesty and this most honorable Parliament , to take some order for Phisicke , and Phisitions too . For albeit you haue brought in Tabacco , as a Rowland , vpon the stage , to make sport withall , and to be laughed at : yet , as farre as I see , poore Oliuer , which is Phisicke it selfe , beares away all the blowes , vnto whom you haue giuen the longest part , and the worst part in all the Play. But now , to come to the purpose : I will not meddle , as I said , with any curious , or solemne discourse of poisons , for such reasons as I haue partly alleadged : neither will I stand vpon the strict points of his definition , or enter into his manifold parts , and braunches by the way of diuision , neither vnfold the diuers waies , meanes , and fashions , of his hatefull operations . But bluntly , and briefly , to answer to so much as you haue laid downe : Then thus I say : touching your tripartite diuision : ( you might haue added the fourth branch too , if it had pleased you , ) I leaue it to your selfe ; as a good matter , or argument , for a man to shew , his wit , learning , and reading vpon : but I esteeme of it as no direct proofe at all : neither yet to be any whit in the world more able to blemish , and hurt Tabacco , then it is to disgrace other parts of Phisicke , which haue deserued better , at your hands , then this comes vnto . And as for those particular places , and authorities which you haue cited out of Galen , and others : either they do answer themselues , if they be well marked , and rightly vnderstood : or else this one generall answer , may be sufficient for them all : and that is this : wheresoeuer you do reade , or heare in Phisicke : purging medicines , or purging remedies , to be tearmed , or rather mistearmed by the name of Venena , or Deleteria : or the like , in Galen : or any other good writer : there is alwaies added one word , or other , to mollifie , and mitigate the harshnesse of that speech withall . Or if any such word , chance to be left out , as perchaunce sometime it is : yet the circumstances of that place being well weighed and considered , it will euidently fall out , that some one such mild word or other ought there to be vnderstood . As for example : they commonly vse to call them : quasi Delet●ria ▪ or , ●anquam venena : or else more mild then that , they will say : that they haue in them , quiddam venenosum : or else yet more mild then that too : as to say they haue in them ; quiddam noxium ; or , quiddam inimicum humane n●tur● : or the like . In so much that the great Lawyer Ca●●s himselfe , who was much bent against Phisicke : yet when he called Pharmacum : venenum : yet he added and concluded , it ought not so to be called absol●tely , but that you should alwaies adde this word , ( bonum ) vnto it : and so still with that addition , it must be called ; bonum venenum said he . Now sir , thinke you , that there is no difference , or oddes in these speeches ? I know not sir : whether you be married , or no : but if you be , and haue a shrew to your wife : ( as if you haue not , I would you had , for now indeed , I am angry with you ) is there no difference , thinke you , in calling your wife , shrew : and calling of her ; good shrew : or profitable shrew : or pretie shrew : or the like ? Yes I warrant you , trie it when ye will. But Galen , the only man for Phisicke that euer wrote : at the very first iumpe , putteth downe , a very learned , and a notable difference ; betweene Medicamentum , and Alimentum : The one ( saith he ) increaseth Molem & substantiam corporis : & vincitur , or alteratur à natura : the other , minuit eam , & vincit . The one agit in corpus : the other patitur à corpore , &c. These , and the like speeches are vsed of him , and are pretie speeches , and good speeches , and true speeches . But all these speeches import no more but thus much : that purging medicines , are not fit for nourishments : and because they are not fit , to nourish , and feede a man : therefore in that respect , that they do yeeld no foode , or nourishment vnto vs , the● may be tearmed after a sort things hurtfull to man , or enemie to man , or things against mans nature , and therfore , in a kind of large signification , as a man would say , they may be called as it were , in a certaine manner , a poison to man : because they nourish not the nature of man. And after this maner , and sort of speaking , and in this large signification , calling all those things , as it were poisons that do not nourish vs : you may well call a stone a poison , as that learned Fallopius noteth : and as I say too , so may you call , a lumpe of gold , a poison also , because there is small nourishment in it : but yet such a kind of poison : I thinke , as I do know a great sort of good fellowes , that would not sticke to venter the poisoning of themselues , in swallowing downe their throats , great gobbets of it , so they might haue them for their labour . But , how euer it is : These medicines , are farre from the nature of that poison , which is so hatefull a thing , and called venenum indeed . For of that sort of Venoms , a very little quantity , being taken into the body , ouerthroweth vs , and corrupteth nature , because it is enemie to nature , totâ substantiâ , as we terme it , and therefore can neuer be turned to good : but as a litle rottennesse in an apple , can neuer become sound , and good againe , but will corrupt and perish the rest , vnlesse it be ●eparated from the rest , and cut away ; euen so it fareth with venims in our bodies , passing through , the whole bodie , and masse of our temperature , in like maner , as a litle Saffron , mingled in a quantitie of liquor , giueth a tincture to all the water , or as a litle Garlicke being eaten , maketh both the vrine and the spittle , and the breath of the eater to smell thereof : euen such a kind , of infection , and working in our bodie , is procured by venimes , vnlesse with all speede , they be either by vomit , auoided : or otherwise miraculously mastered . But now good sir , if you were but examined vpon your knowledge , how many you haue knowne in all your life , to haue bene poisoned with Tabacco : I thinke you would be put very much vnto your shifts , to find out but so many as poore one , notwithstanding it is so commonly , and so daily taken , as it is : and yet nothing taken against it neither , either to auoide it , or else to correct it . Then I hope it standeth cleare , that poore Tabacco , is none of those dangerous poisons : vnlesse you call him so , in that large signification , which we haue spoken of , calling all those things , which do not nourish , or feede vs , after a sort venimes , or poisons : for that they are in some maner , contrarie to mans narure , for that they are not apt , either to increase , or preserue the substance of man : and in that sort , as I haue told you , a stone , or a peece of gold is a goodly poison too . The rest of your speech : as that it is a violent Purgation , and therefore needeth good correctiues , &c. proueth no more Tabacco , to be ill , and daungerous , then other things to be euen so too , that are vsed in Phisicke . But yet it proueth very well indeed , all thē to be fools , that will vse it , or any thing else vnaduisedly , to purge withall . And thereto I agree with you , as I haue alreadie , at large signified , and declared before . You build much vpon the accidents , and symptoms , that sometime do follow the large taking therof : namely , as violent vomits , many , and infinite stooles , great gnawings , and torments of the guts , defect of feeling , and vnderstanding , losse of sight , and giddinesse of head , profound , and deepe sleepes , &c. And hereupon you thinke you haue a great hand of the matter , and haue said much to proue Tabacco , to be a great , and a daungerous poison , &c. If you may make your owne accompt , it were hard I perceiue , if you did leese by the reckening . But if you were but friendly examined , but vpon this point : how many you had euer seene , or known , to be in this pickle , vpon the taking of Tabacco : I thinke ( to speake within my compasse ) it will be very hard for you , to giue the instance of fiue thousand in all your life : and yet I thinke too , that , euen that were as easie for you to do : as to giue the instance but of fiue . And farther , admit that it hath wrought any of these effects , vpon any some , at any time , as vpon some great , and some vnreasonable disorder perchaunce it hath : yet what of that ? I am sure , that I haue seene for your one , that you can name that way , an hundred at the least , vpon immoderate taking and powring in of good wine , that haue bene in the same pickle , and worse too : and yet I hope , it shall not follow thereof , that good wine , is no otherwis● to be accounted of then a poison : if it were , it were high time to looke to our Vinteners I can tell you . But yet you still go on : and vrge farther : and say that it is the more daungerous poison : because that it hath contrarie qualities in it : for it hath also , say you , a stupefying , and a benumming propertie , or qualitie , which is in the extreamest degree of cold , as your selfe affirmeth . Here is good stuffe indeed . What ? hath Tabacco hitherto bene accounted so daungerous a thing , and all for his extreame heate , and therefore called by you , the fierie , hellish , scorchingfume , out of Plutoes forge , and hath it now such a great cooler ioyned with it ? I hope you know , and will confesse , that two extreames , cannot consist , and dwell together , in one , and the selfe same substance , in equall degrees , and at one time : no more then darke midnight , and cleare shining noone day , can be at one instant , in one and the selfe same place : or that any one thing can be as hote as fire , and the selfe same to be as cold as yce , at one instant . Here you attribute vnto Tabacco , a cold quality in the highest degree : and heretofore you haue ascribed vnto him , a heate more then ordinarie , nay , almost rather in the like extremitie , if your words be throughly scanned : which is impossible to hang together . But vpon this errour dependeth the greatest force of your former arguments . And this principle being once ouerthrowne ▪ which is this : That the heat of Tabacco is so exceeding hote , that it is able to inflame , and destroy naturall heat , &c. ( which is nothing so indeed , as I perceiue by your own confession here that it is not , hauing such a cooling card ioyned with him , as you say it hath : and as also partly hath bene well proued before in many other places . ) Then I say , all your former reasons brought against the killing , and destroying of our naturall heate , by the great heat of Tabacco , and thereby , the procuring of so many crudities , and ill digestions in our bodies , and all procured by the great inflaming heat ▪ of Tabacco , as you say : al these reasōs I say , are quasht , & not worth a buttō . Well , this is not inough : but yet still you proceed : and make answer to a secret obiection ; which is this : Many ( say you ) in England do take the fume of Tabacco , without hurt or inconuenience : and your selfe giueth the reason , by and by . Because ( say you ) the custome of taking of it , in that manner , which we do vs● , that is to say , by receiuing of it , at the mouth , or snuffing it vp by the nosthrils , can neither profite nor hurt much , &c. If this be so : why , then haue you so much inueighed against it all this while , as you haue ? yea , and against that manner of taking of it too ? For euen of that onely action , it seemeth vnto me : that your booke beareth that title that it doth : of Chimny-sweeping , as hath bene alreadie said . But let vs go on : and marke but that reason : which your self hath made , and in the same chapter , afterward immediatly followeth : and you shall see , that it doth wonderfully cleare Tabacco ; and he is exceeding much beholding to you for it . For thus you say : You are not ignorant that many perillous , and deadly poisons , are sometimes taken into the bodie without offence , and daunger : but then they are euer in very small quantitie , or else so repressed , and corrected with other cordials , as that they cannot offend , &c. Let this speech of yours be well marked , and remembred . For if this be so , ( as I for my part , take it to be so ) then there cannot in all the world , a better tale , & in fewer words be told for Tabacco , then this is . For if poisons , cannot be taken , without great , and present hurt and daunger , except they be taken in a very small quantitie , and with many correctiues too , to resist , and bridle them : then contrariwise ; seeing that Tabacco , is daily taken , and that in great abundant quantities too , yea and that also without any correctiue in all the world , and yet for all that , God be thanked , it poisoneth no bodie : what greater testimonie or proofe , can there either be had , or brought , for the clearing , and quitting of this poore gentleman , both from being a poison● as also from the very suspition of any poison to be in it , then this is , that your selfe hath said ? In good faith , in my fancie , I need say no more , then is confessed , and written by your selfe . But yet , come what come will , you will still plod on : and needes you will haue it to be a poison , euen to the very Indians , had not custome preuailed to the contrarie as you say . And here you do labour tooth and naile with a long discourse , to set out , the nature , and force of custome , and to tell what great acts , she can do , and bring to passe : all which we do yeeld vnto . But yet , this is nothing to the chiefe point in question . And for a briefe answer to all , that is , or may be said in that behalfe : I am not of opinion that the Indians long vsing of it , hath made it no poison to them : but contrariwise , because of it selfe , and in his owne nature , it was not a poison , nor any hurtfull thing , therefore with them it grew into custome . For it is most likely , in all common sence , and reason , that ; things , must first either be found , or knowne , or at the least thought to be good , and wholesome ; before , they can be drawne into any vse , and custome . Some litle triall , and experience I confesse , must be had of them : to know , and find out , the true nature of euery thing , whether they be good , or no : but yet that little trial , would neuer bring it to a daily custome , or long vse , but would by and by be checked , and controlled : if the thing it selfe , were not found good , and wholesome ; vpon the first proofe , and triall thereof . So that , as I haue sayd alreadie : i● is much more probable , that the goodnesse of a thing , is the cause of the custome thereof , and not the custome , cause of the goodnesse . As for those particular instances , of the people that Virgil maketh mention of : and of the woman , and maide , that fed vpon poysons , and killed others with her breath , and yet liued her selfe ; let them either be true stories , or but reports from mouth to mouth , let them I say be what they will : yet I account them ▪ but as pretty , and rare obseruations , of certaine secret Sympathies , and inward workings of nature : more to be wondered at , for the strangenesse thereof : then to be of any force , to proue any thing against Tabacco : or to be answered , for any great matter of moment in this case . But yet , if it so please you : let all this be granted : That vse , and custome , doth make , a thing good in time : and yet what haue you got by this then ? For then all the Tabacconists , haue that , that they would haue . For , if custome , say they , made it good to the Indians : why may it not do the like to the English , in time ? If custome be the matter : and all in all , then let vs alone ; for we will bring it into as great vse , and custome , as euer aniething was . In that you graunt it to haue such a prerogatiue , for the Scorbute , commonly called the Scuruy , and for other the like diseases incident to that kind of people : herein also , you haue sayd verie much , in his commendation . For there is no disease , that is more loathsome then that is : neither is there anie that deserueth greater reward for the cure , then that doth . I am sure it is not vnknowne to you , what a notable treatise is written by that worthie old man Wyerus , about the curing of this Scuruie , as they call it ; and how much he hath written in the praise of one poore herbe , called Coclearia : in respect that it is so wholesome , for the cure of that disease . And if Tabacco , haue this singular gift also for that disease : then I hold him in great regard , and estimation : and account of him , as of an excellent simple , that deser●eth rather to be worthily written of , then to be so bitterly inueighed against . To conclude , at the last , when you haue ended all your talke of the Scuruie , then yet you labour to proue Tabacco , to be a poyson forsooth this way : Because say you , when it is taken of an infected body , it draweth out the poyson , like to himselfe . Your owne words are these , or to this effect : That Tabacco doth the like to other poysons : which when they find any of their owne qualitie and nature in mans body , &c. they draw forth the same ( the lik● coueting his like ) and yet leaue the sound , and healthy humours cleare , and vnspotted . Blessed God , I neuer heard of such a reason , in al my life . For in my poore opinion , in saying this that you haue said , you haue mightily freed Tabacco , euen from the very suspition of all poyson : or else , I am wonderfully deceiued . In this place , there is some occasion offered , to speake somewhat of the nature , and manner of purgatiues in Phisicke . Namely to tell by what meanes , this act of purging is performed : and what be the true causes , of this attraction , or drawing , or purging of humors in a mans body . He that shall enter into this question , shall find a large field to plough . For there be manie opinions , about it , and all earnestly defended : some saying it is , à manifesta qualitate : others , ab occulta aliqua vi , & coelesti virtute : others some : ab ipsa forma specifica , as they tearme it . And some againe , à violento quodam motu , & contrarietate substantiae : but the most famous for learning , say it is , à similitudine naturae , and that is Galens opinion ; albeit , he is mightily gainesaid , and sore taxed for the same ; by that learned , and famous man Valariola . And therefore knowing that this discourse , would be rather tedious then profitable , in so short a Treatise , as this is : I will leaue that point for this time : and rather seeke to answer , your words , as they lye in order . Two things , you do attribute vnto Tabacco : the one is , that from infected bodies , it draweth out all the ill humours : the other is , that it leaues all the other humors in the bodie , cleare and vnspotted , as you say . Two notable properties , I assure you : and such as would rather make a man in loue with Tabacco ; then cause him to hate it , as a poyson . What ? does Tabacco draw out of an infected bodie corrupt venimous humors , because it is a corrupt venom it selfe ? and is like to those venimous humours , that are drawne out by it and expelle● ? Me thinke in common sence that should not be so . As I told you euen now : so I say againe , I will not stand vppon the examining and sifting out , of the causes , and the meanes , of this sayd attraction , and expulsion of humours : for there be many opinions of that point , as hath bene alreadie said , and all of them probable , and defensible . But thus much , both you , and I do confesse , and we see it also to be so : that ill humors be purged , or expelled , or tumbled out of the body . Marry , how they do come out : and by what meanes , that cannot I tell : but that they do come ou● : that is flat , and plaine , and euerie man sees it , by these said purgatiues . And now Sir , to leaue all schoole questions aside , and plainely , and bluntly , to come to the point : let me aske you but this familiar question : Doth one friend vse to driue out another friend , out of his house , when he findeth him there , who is like to himselfe : in nature , good will , and conditions ? or rather doth he thrust out and expell , a theefe , if he find him there : or an enemie : or such a one , as loues him not : but is contrary to him in all his actions and meanings ? Me thinke the case , is too plaine , and needeth no farther dispute . But yet ; like , finding his like : it expelleth that like : say you still : and this is the faburden of your song . And is it , euen so indeede ? and does like , expell his like with you now : who haue borne vs in hand , all this while , that like , added to like , did delight , and ioy in that like : and increase that like in our bodies ? For if it doth all this , then belike , it expelleth it not : nor one venome doth not thrust out another as you affirme , now ? For if this reason of yours be true : then he that hath taken a strong poison : should be healed , either by taking more , of that poison : or else by taking of a stronger poison , then that is . But try that when ye will : and giue rats-bane , to him , that is poysoned with rats-bane alreadie , and you shall see , what a wise cure , you shall haue of it . So that , to conclude , as farre as I can see , you are as farre off , from prouing Tabacco , to be a poison : as both by reason , and your owne words to : he is rather found to be an enemie vnto poyson , and an expeller , and a conquerour of the same : yea , and more then so to : for by your owne report , it leaueth the other good humours ( which is a wonder I can tell you ) cleare , and vnspotted , as your owne words do testifie . Now then : this great storme , we see is past , and ouerblowne : and this terrible accusation , is much like to a Sampsons post , thwited to a pudding pricke , as the Prouerbe is . Well now : what more ? We must not yet so go away . Then let vs heare your seuenth reason in the name of God. The seuenth reason is : for that The first author , and finder thereof was the diuell : and the first practisers of the same , were the diuels Priests , and therefore not to be vsed , of vs Christians . I must needes thinke , that you were very neare driuen to go to the hedge for a stake , when you pickt out this argument . And must it needs be deuised , and inuented by the diuell ? and must it needes be vsed by the diuels Priests , and seruants , and by none other ? and must not Chrstian men vse it , in any case , because Infidels , the diuels seruants , haue vsed it ? what remedie ? But yet my mind giueth me : it should not be so . And yet all this while , why it should come from the diuell , I heare no other reason made by you , as yet : but onely because Monardus the Spaniard affirmes it : nay rather for that he imagineth it to be so . And my answer forsooth is this , for that he doth but barely affirme it onely ; and for that his assertion is but coniecturall ▪ I see no reason but that it may be as safely , and as easily reiected , as beleeued . But yet if the circumstances be well considered , that Monardus himselfe putteth downe , me thinke it were a more charitable motion , to thinke that it came from God , who is the author of all good gifts , then from the diuell . This one thing I am most sure of , that euen this selfe same Monardus : whom you here bring against him , as your greatest proofe ; hath written as much good of Tabacco , as can be : affirming him not onely to be verie good , against infinite diseases in a manner : but also to haue a singular gift , to refresh men of their great , and intollerable wearisomnes in their iourneyings . Yea , & to be such a wonderfull preseruer , & curer of poisons : yea , and of that great , & admirable poison too , called Bague ( how soeuer it hath pleased you , to slander him in your last Chapter before this ) and in conclusion knitteth vp , the whole Treatise of him with these words : That for his excellent vertues , Tabacco , is had amongst the Indians , in wonderfull estimation , &c. Now Sir , how such , an excellent thing as this is , by his owne report , should now be sayd by him to come from the diuell ; that would be knowne . Touching the taking of it by their Priests , and by and by falling asleepe thereupon , &c. Marke me but that whole discourse well : and ye shall see , it is taken & reported quite amisse : for indeede it maketh all for Tabacco . For take but Monardus his owne tale : and by him it should seeme ; that in the taking of Tabacco : they were drawne vp : and separated from all grosse , and earthly cogitations , and as it were caried vp to a more pure and cleare region , of fine conceits & actions of the mind , in so much , as they were able thereby to see visions , as you say : & able likewise to make wise & sharp answers , much like as those men are wont to do , who being cast into trances , and exstasies , as we are wont to call it , haue the power and gift thereby , to see more wonders , and high misticall matters , then all they can do , whose braines , & cogitations , are oppressed with the thicke and foggy vapours , of grosse , and earthy substances . Marry , if in their trances , & sudden fallings , they had become nasty , & beastly fe●lowes ▪ or had in most loathsome manner , fallen a spuing , and vomiting , as drunkards are wont to do : then indeed it might well haue bene counted a diuellish matter : and bene worthy reprehension . But being vsed to cleare the braines , and thereby making the mind more able , to come to her selfe , and the better to exercise her heauenly gifts , and vertues ; me thinke , as I haue said , I see more cause why we should thinke it to be a rare gift imparted vnto man , by the goodnes of God , then to be any inuention of the diuell . And if that their Priests , as you call them , do abuse at any time , this good gift , to deceiue thereby the people , with subtill , and doubtfull speeches in their answers : that was the Priests fault , and to be ascr●bed vnto them : and no whit to be imputed to the thing . Now sir , by the way : whether those Priests , do serue the diuell , or no , and be his seruants as you say they are , that I do leaue to you , and others to iudge . I am of Cicero the Ethnickes opinion in this : That there is no people , or nation so rude , or barborous in the world : but that they haue some sence , and feeling of God : and that thereby they do ordaine and appoint to themselues , some one kind or other of diuine worship , and seruice of that immortall , and omnipotent deity , and most blessed euerlasting power : albeit , they vnderstand him not aright , as we Christians do . And albeit , neither these Indians , nor yet those Philosophers , whom all ages haue hitherto so much reuerenced : and by whom we haue receiued so many helpes , of learning , as we haue , neuer knew Christ aright , for that perchance they neuer heard of him : and therefore like inough that they do all erre in their religion , or rather superstition : yet , in my fancy , it were a hard thing to pronounce them all to be the diuels seruants , and his instruments : being otherwise good men of life , and couersation , & blamelesse in the ●ight of the world . But for that this question , appertaineth not vnto this place , neither yet commeth within the compasse of your handling or mine : I leaue it to our reuerend Diuines : to whom it belongeth to decide such matters . Hoping for all that , it shall not seeme to be repugnant to the rules of Christianity , to iudge the best , euen of those Infidels : and to thinke , that as God is omnipotent and wonderfull in all his doings : so , by that his omnipotency , ioyned with his infinite mercies , he hath also many wayes , and meanes ( though to vs , and our weakenesse vnknowne ) how to raise vp , plant , and preserue , some numbers amongst them : of such as shall be accounted , and reckened among the fellowship of those his true seruants , that shall be saued . And if this opinion of mine shall be thought awry , and erronious : yet I hope , it shall be taken , and accounted , as pius error : and so I leaue for this matter : submitting my selfe to the censure and iudgement of them , to whom it doth appertaine . But let vs imagine , the worst : be it , that they be the diuels seruants : and that the vse of this Tabacco , came wholly from them : shall it therefore be thought either impious or inconuenient , or vnlawfull , for Christians to vse it ? For my part I am not of that mind . For I thinke , that religion forbids it not : and I am sure , honest pollicy doth not prohibite it . Touching religion : Omnia munda , mūdis : Take me yet here I pray you , as I meane it , that is : as spoken , and meant of such matters , as are not otherwise precisely ordered , & ouerruled by Scripture , but are counted indifferent , & stand only vpō their right vse , or abuse , to be either good , or bad : and haue no expresse rule , example , or commandement to the contrarie . As for honest pollicie ; I referre you ouer , to the daily practise of all good Christian Princes . Imagine those Indians be as ill , as ill may be : yet I know , that the Turks are as ill as they : who are the professed enemies , of Christ , and of his sacred Gospell : and yet , I am sure there are many things both inuented and deuised by them : or else by as ill as they : and also , that are daily vsed by them : which are held in great price , and estimation , with all Christians , at this day , and by all Christian Princes put in practise euery where . Wherefore , in condemning Tabacco , and the Tabacconists so eagerly in this point , as you do : in my opinion you do in a maner condemne all Christendome for some one thing or other vsed by them : which was either in●ented at the first : or else is now daily vsed by the Infidels . The eighth and last reason is : for that It is a great augmentor of Melancholy in our bodies , which humor , is the cause of many great diseases , and hurtfull impressions in our bodies , &c. In this chapter there be many things , very well , and learnedly put downe : As , the nature , and description of Melancholy : The difference betweene the naturall melancholy , and that melancholy which commeth , by adustion , and accidentally : the straunge effects , and properties , that it breedeth , and bringeth foorth in our bodies : the helpe and vertue that it hath in it to make men wise : and how that proposition , which auoucheth melancholy men , to be the wisest men , is rightly to be vnderstood , &c. All these things haue very good matter in them I confesse . And though some of them , by some men , both are , and may be contradicted , by the way of argument , and schollerly disputation : yet for my part , I mind not to gaine-say any one of them : for it were nothing to the purpose , for that matter which we haue now in hand . But when all is said , that you can say , and when all those odde ends are brought together , of those matters , which you haue laid downe , and scattered in your discourse ; the vpshot of all your talke in this matter : is , and must be this : that Tabacco increaseth melancholy humor in our bodie , and increaseth it so abundantly , that it manifestly destroyeth the temperature of our bodie , disordering and ouerthrowing , the good actions of the same : and so consequently is a breeder , and an occasion of many diseases in melancholie persons especially . And this is the marke , I am sure that you shoot at . Wel sir , then to leaue your long discourse , and to come to handie gripes , and to make short with you ▪ then thus I say : if Tabacco do these things which you affirme it doth : that is : if it increase the humour of melancholie , and breed blacke vapours in our bodie , as you do say , it doth : then su●ely sir , it must needes do it , either by his fume , and smoke , or else by his purging facultie . For there be no moe waies , I trow , how he shold do it : for by the way of foode , I think you meane it not : for that is alreadie resolued vpon , and put downe as a principle : That no man feedeth on Tabacco , as to make his meales thereof . Well then , as touching the fume of Tabacco , here in this chapter , you plainely , and precisely affirme , that by the smoke , or fume of Tabacco , all sorts of melancholy are augmented , and increased , &c. But in another place , you haue as plainely affirmed likewise , that no impression of any matter , either to do hurt , or good , can be made by the smoke or fume of Tabacco . Of these two contradictions , I know not I promise you , what to make : they appeare vnto me , much like to the Aegiptians fast and loose : so that a man cannot tell where to haue you . For to do no hurt at all : as you say : and to do so great a harme , as to increase all sorts of melancholie , being a matter of so great moment , &c. which also , you do say : it doth so puzzle my wits to reconcile them well : as in truth , I know not what to make of it . If you can reconcile them , I pray you then do it ; for in truth I cannot . As for the reason that you bring , to proue Tabacco , to leaue in our braine , a black , swarfe , sootish tincture , because it doth all to be-blacke the Pipe wherein it is taken : ó Lord , it is a very weake reason . For betweene your dead , and sencelesse Pipes , made of earth or otherwise ; and the liuely cauities , passages , and pipes of ou● breathing and liuing bodies , there is no likelihood or comparison to be made . And for proofe hereof , let vs not stand now vpon making of schoole syllogismes : but let vs fall to a flat demonstration : and one demonstration you know verie well , is worth fiue syllogismes . My demonstration then at a word is this : looke me but into the throats , and nosthrils , of all the great Tabacco takers : view them well , I say , and prie into their noses , as much as ye please , and I will lay what wager you will , that you shall find them as faire nosed gentlemen , and as cleane mouthed , and throated , as any men aliue , I will warrant you . Againe to go a litle farther , and to proue that the smoke of a thing , worketh no such operation , or increaseth not melancholie , as you presuppose that it doth , let me giue you another instance , by another plaine demonstration . Behold your poore ploughmen , that liue continually in smokie houses : and your blacke Smiths , that are still moyling in sea-coale fire , all the day long : and Grim the Colier , that is all his life time almost , in continuall smoke , in somuch , as in a maner he feedes vpon it : and tell me , if you find many melancholie men among them . All to be smeered perchaunce you shall haue them , with smoke , and soote , on the outside , and with foule blacke , quarrie , scorched hands : but yet you shall see them as merrie , and as madde knaues , with as white teeth , and as good complexions , as any men aliue : and as litle touched with sadnesse , or melancholie ; as he that is least subiect to that disease . Vnlesse it be sometime now and then , when the poore Colier is set vpon the Pillorie for false measuring his coales : then perchaunce he may be somewhat sad , and melancholie for the time , while his fooles head stands peeping out , at the Pillorie hole . But assoone as he hath giuen them the slip , and gotten his head once from the Pillorie ; and is gone but some two or three miles out of London , he is as merrie againe as a Cricket : and all to be-knaues the Marshall for his labour , and biddes him come now , and he dare , to fetch him to the Pillorie againe . What ? must poore smoke , being so light a thing , and so soone vapoured away , and so , and so taken : as your selfe hath described , and by and by let out againe ; must smoke I say needes haue so great a force , as to increase such a sad soure humor as melancholie ? Is no possibly , as Domingo was woont to say . Marrie , if the smoke , were a matter of solide substance , so that it might be chewed , as other meates are , and swallowed downe , and concocted , and digested , and then distributed , and conueyed by the veines , to the particular parts of the bodie , to feede and cherish them : then perchaunce vpon this long abode , in the truncke of our bodie , and vpon the thorough fermenting , and working of it selfe , into the whole masse , or lumpe of our bloud , that giueth vs nourishment : if all this , I say were done , or might be done : then perchaunce , you had somewhat to say , and to warne good Students , to take heede , how they did meddle with Tabacco : for feare of increase of melancholie . Otherwise , in my iudgement , this needlesse feare of yours , doth somewhat sauour of melancholie in your selfe . For you know : that melancholie men , be sad , and fearefull , & non timenda , timent : which is one of the chiefest properties of a melancholie person . And thus much briefly ; touching the smoke of Tabacco . But now sir , it may be your opinion is also , that Tabacco increaseth melancholie , and worketh this great daunger and offence , by his purging facultie : and this perchaunce is that , which you seeme to glaunce at by the way , when you say : that , it auoideth that liquid Phlegmaticke matter , which would be good nourishment , and that which otherwise should be mingled with the rest of our bloud , and giue a moisture to the drinesse of melancholie , and so keepe all things in good tune , and temper , &c. If this be your opinion , that b●cause the smoke of Tabacco maketh the takers thereof to spit a litle , and to auoid by the mouth some waterish matter , that therefore I say when it is vsed in purging , it will purge the like matter also , as it seemes you do make your chiefest argument vpon that point : then I say , that euen in this point also , either you are ; or you may be deceiued . For there be many things , that will prouoke a man to spit much , and yet they will not purge at all . As for example , take but Mastich , and chew it vp and down in your mouth : and you shall spit for life : and yet it is no purgatiue . The like may be said , of an vnripe , sharpe , sower apple , or the like : for it will not onely do so to the eater thereof : but also prouoke the stander by sometime to spit , and spattle as much and more too , as I haue seene . And thereof I thinke comes this English Prouerbe : That a mans teeth doth water , at this , or at that , &c. And here is to be noted by the way , ( and it is worth the noting too , and hath bene remembred alreadie in another place before ) that , of that same liquid moist matter , which you so much talke of , and make it so necessarie , and precious a thing , as you do in all your discourse : there is I say such store and plentie of it in our bodies for the most part , and it is at all times , so readie at hand to come at a call , that there neede be no feare at all , of spending of that moisture by the vse of Tabacco , especially to vs , that are English men , and Ilanders , as hath bene declared alreadie before . But here , you come vpon me , and say : Yea sir , but Tabacco is a Purgatiue , there is no question of that : and because it is a Purgatiue ; therefore , it must needs purge the like matter , by the bellie , which it doth auoid by the mouth : and that is Phleame , and other liquide matter , and humiditie : and in purging of that , it maketh melancholie the drier ▪ and so consequently , it maketh it the worse , &c. No , not so good sir , and to answer this obiection fully : I doubt not , but that you do know right wel● that as touching purgatiue medicines , there be two opinions of antiquitie . The one affirmeth , that they do purge by election : and are called El●ctiuè purgantia : which is as much to say , as that they do purge , with a kind of choice , or iudgement , either this , or that humor alone , or else some one humor more then any other . And yet those Electiuè purgantia , do not so make speciall choise , of that onely one humor alone : as a Deere is wont to be singled out , from the rest of the heard , and so had in chace by himselfe alone without any other : but their meaning is , that those Purgatiues do expell and auoid some one humour more then the rest indeed , which they do most fancie , and haue a liking vnto : but yet with that principall humor , some one or other humor too , may in part , be expelled and auoided , at the same instant : as you , and I do know , many of those electiue Purgatiues , which do purge some one : yea some two : nay , some three humors , all at one time , though not all those humors indifferently at one time , but they shall not be named by me , of purpose , because I thinke it not meete , to acquaint the vulgar sort , with any such secrets . The other opinion is ( and those be iolly fellowes too , I can tell you , that be the authors of it : ) That there are no purgatiues at all by election or choi●e , which are called Electiuè purgantia , as I haue told you : but that all purgatiues do purge promiscuè ; or as a man would say , a like : or indifferently : or at a venture , so that nature ▪ being once set a worke by a purgation : and hauing as it were her sluces , or conduits , now open : looke what humour she findeth her self most aggrieued withall , or that lieth aptest and readiest in the way to be auoided , that she tumbleth out , hauing now the helpe of art , to assist her in her action . So that make your choise of these two opinions , which you will ; yet I see no reason why Tabacco , should be so much feared , and misliked in the purging of melancholy . For if you say with this latter crue of Phisitions : that all purgatiues do purge promiscuè : then the case is cleare : for then he may aswell purge melancholy , as any other humor ; or at the least he may purge melancholy with another humour , when nature is once set a worke to purge and auoide that which offendeth . But if you do say with the other sect of Phisitions : That all purgatiues do worke Electiuè : or by choise , and a kind of iudgement , then thus I say , that neither I , nor you , nor any man else can giue any reason , why Tabacco , should not aswell , as any other purgatiue , purge away melācholy , either alone , or principally , or at the least with some other humors , as well , as we see other purgatiues do : notwithstanding that his smoake doth seeme to keepe such a sturre , with a little spittering , and spattering by the mouth , as is already sayd . But it may be Sir : that you are of another opinion , then all this commeth vnto , and that you do thinke , that in melancholy matters , there should no purgatiues at all be vsed , and would haue no other course to be taken in the cure thereof : but only Alterantia , and Commoderantia , as we terme them , to be vsed : that is , you would haue them vse such things as might alter , temper , and mitigate the harshnesse of that melancholy humor , and so in time at the length alter the whole state of the body , without any more a do , &c If this I say be your opinion : then is all at an end : and I haue no more to say , either to it , or to you , at this time , but onely this : God speed you well : but therewithall yet still this I say : That if you will not seeme to swarue , from the steps of the learned ancient writers , who vsed in the cure of melancholy , as round , and as strong medicines , as Tabacco is , and such to , as were in their manifest qualities , as ho●e , and dry as Tabacco is , also : Then it shall be no discredit for you , to suffer Tabacco , to haue his place among those auncient allowed purgatiues , and to alter your opinion of this poore straunger , and hereafter to giue him no worse speeches , then vpon good proofe he shall deserue . And thus hauing made , a wise foolish speech , or a foolish wise speech in the behalfe of this poore Tabacco : now it is not much amisse , to haue a word or two for my selfe . It is like inough , that in this brag-speaking age , there will not want some store of those , that will be ready to start vp , and make hast to carpe , and reprehend ▪ all that euer is , or that can be sayd , either in this matter , or anie other , whatsoeuer . And marke it when ye will , and you shall see , that none will be so readie thereunto , as they : who either for lacke of wit , are least able to iudge and vnderstand what is well said : or else for lacke of learning , are most vnable , to amend that which is amisse . But making small reckening , or account of any such : my chiefe and onely desire is : that this sporting exercise of mine , may no whit displease , any of those learned sweete conceited gentlemen ( in regard of whose fauour only , I haue vnderta●en it ) in whom there is neither scornefull , nor wayward ▪ nor any such sullen sower humor , but that they can be contented to heare , a Philosophicall probleame , somewhat scholer-like handled : to passe the time these Christmasse holy daies . Moreouer , it may be , that some also , will muse to see any time at all to be spent , in so trifling an argument as this is ; in their conceit , and opinion : but yet , for their better satisfaction , let this be said : Seeing that as famous men , as euer haue bene , either in our age , or in our forefathers dayes , haue not disdained to write of meaner matters then these : as namely , some of baldnesse , others in the commendation of folly : yea , and other some , of farre baser matters to : as of a gnat , a flye , & a flea : and yet neuerthelesse , they haue thought no part of their credit either touched , or impeached thereby : then I hope , it may be permitted to him , that is no hater of learning , to attempt the like , in a matter not farre vnlike : and so much the more for that I was prouoked , or rather in some sort much vrged therunto , ( I protest ) for that to my thinking , I did perceiue , the credit of that most excellent knowledge of Phisicke , not a little touched and stained thereby , vnder his pretence of inueighing against Tabacco . And albeit his meaning perchance , was farre otherwise ( as like inough it was ) yet I thought it not amisse , that such an ouerslip as that was , should in some good sort , either be met withall : or else , at the least , be better vnderstood . FINIS .