A serious dialogue betwixt a church-man and a Quaker Keith, George, 1639?-1716. 1699 Approx. 34 KB of XML-encoded text transcribed from 9 1-bit group-IV TIFF page images. Text Creation Partnership, Ann Arbor, MI ; Oxford (UK) : 2005-12 (EEBO-TCP Phase 1). A47176 Wing K207 ESTC R26829 09551148 ocm 09551148 43616 This keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the Early English Books Online Text Creation Partnership. This Phase I text is available for reuse, according to the terms of Creative Commons 0 1.0 Universal . The text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. Early English books online. (EEBO-TCP ; phase 1, no. A47176) Transcribed from: (Early English Books Online ; image set 43616) Images scanned from microfilm: (Early English books, 1641-1700 ; 1334:31) A serious dialogue betwixt a church-man and a Quaker Keith, George, 1639?-1716. 16 p. Printed for Brab. Aylmer, London : 1699. Signed: G.K. Reproduction of original in the Bodleian Library. Created by converting TCP files to TEI P5 using tcp2tei.xsl, TEI @ Oxford. Re-processed by University of Nebraska-Lincoln and Northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. Gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. EEBO-TCP is a partnership between the Universities of Michigan and Oxford and the publisher ProQuest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by ProQuest via their Early English Books Online (EEBO) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). 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Keying and markup guidelines are available at the Text Creation Partnership web site . eng Church of England -- Controversial literature. Society of Friends -- Apologetic works. 2005-05 TCP Assigned for keying and markup 2005-06 Aptara Keyed and coded from ProQuest page images 2005-07 Mona Logarbo Sampled and proofread 2005-07 Mona Logarbo Text and markup reviewed and edited 2005-10 pfs Batch review (QC) and XML conversion A Serious DIALOGUE BETWIXT A Church-Man AND A QUAKER . LONDON , Printed for Brab . Aylmer at the Three Pigeons against the Royal Exchange in Cornhil . 1699. Some Books lately Writ by G. Keith , and Sold by Brab . Aylmer at the Three Pigeons in Cornhil . AN Exact Narrative of the Proceedings at Turners-Hall , the 11th of the Month called June , 1696. Together with the Disputes and Speeches there , between G. Keith , and other Quakers , differing from him in some Religious Principles , in Quarto . Price 12 d. A second Narrative of the Proceedings at Turners-Hall , the 29th of the Month called April , 1697. Quarto . Price 6 d. A third Narrative of the Proceedings , &c. Quarto . Price 12 d. His Explications and Retractations of divers Passages in his former Books , &c. Quarto . Price 1 s 6 d. His Sermon Preach'd on the Publick Day of Thanksgiving , April 16th , 1696. Price 6 d. A Christian Catechism for the Instruction of Youth , and others , to whom it may be useful in the Grounds of the Christian Religion , &c. 80. Price 12 d. bound . A short Christian Catechism for the Instruction of Children , &c. Price 3 d. Stitch'd . The Arguments of the Quakers against Baptism and the Supper , Examined and Refuted , &c. in Quarto . Price is . 6 d. A Serious DIALOGUE Betwixt a Church-Man and a Quaker . Church-Man . WELL met . It is a most scandalous Reflection ye cast on our Church , ( as I find in a late Dialogue writ by one of your Friends , called , A Sober Dialogue betwixt a Scoteh Presbyterian , a London Church-Man , and a real Quaker ) for you to say , ye are of the same Faith with us : And ye grosly pervert a Passage in our Common Prayer , to Prove our Agreement with you ; as because we pray , that God would inspire us with his Holy Spirit , &c. that therefore the Inspirations we pray for , are your Light within , that is common to you and all Mankind ; and which ye say , is sufficient to your and all Mens Salvation , without any thing else ; than which nothing can be more contrary to the Doctrine of our Church , as appears by the Thirty Nine Articles of our Church , her Homilies , and whole Liturgy : All which hold forth Jesus Christ of Nazareth as he is in Heaven , in our Nature , to the great object of Faith , for Remission of Sin , and Eternal Salvation ; and also to be the great Object of Adoration , together with the Father , and the Holy Ghost . Quaker . I confess there is a great Confusion among us , about our Faith ; especially ever since Fr. Bugg , T. C. and G. Keith , has Printed so many large and full Quotations out of our Friends Books , both ancient and late , to shew our disagreement with the Doctrine , not only of your Church , but with the Doctrine of all Christian Societies in the whole VVorld , and ( if they are to be believed ) with the Doctrine of the Holy Scriptures ; and none of all our Opposers has done us a greater diskindness , to expose us to the World , than he whom W. P. calls the Rattle-Snake Man , in his Snake in the Grass , that has been so generally well liked , that it hath had three Impressions , and in his Satan disrobed , that hath had two . Church-man . Why should these Books make such Confusion among you ? You had wont to glory of your Vnity ; but where Confusion is , Vnity surely is not . Quaker . Before these mischievous Books came forth , we all generally agreed ( as we thought ) that the Fundamental Principle of Truth was but one ; and that one was the Light in every Man's Conscience , that taught us and all Men , that there was a great God Almighty that created all things , and that our whole Duty lay within the compass of a few things , viz. to love God , trust in him , pray to him , and give him Thanks for our Creation and Preservation , and daily Mercies , and to live soberly and justly in this World , doing as we would be done by ; and if we practiced these few things , that should serve us for Religion , and by our Obedience to the Light in our Consciences , which taught us these few things we did believe , we should be happy after Death , and our Souls should enjoy God Eternally , though the Body that lyeth down in the Grave , being Elementary and Earthly , finally perisheth , as all other Elementary and Earthly Bodies do . But since the publishing of those mischievous Books , many of our Friends , both in City and Country , begin to think that Christ , as he is both God and Man without them , is a necessary Object of their Faith for Remission of Sin , as he dyed , and as his Blood was shed , and as he rose again , and ascended into Heaven in our Nature , ( as they say ) and as he is now in Heaven , Making Intercession for Men. And G. K. first in Pensilvania , and since here , having with his Meetings at Turners-Hall , and his three Narratives , made such a heavy Charge against us , particularly against G. W. and W. P. [ wherein he has had Associates , Fr. Bugg , Th. Crisp , and the Author of the Snake ] that we have no other Religion but Deism . This hath occasioned G. W. and W. P. to give forth several new Creeds , wherein they have changed both the matter and manner of their Doctrine , from what it formerly was , making the World believe they hold all the Articles of the Apostles Creed , as other Christians do , and that they differ not ( in the main ) from the Church of England in Doctrine ; yea scarcely at all , setting aside some School-Terms in matter of Doctrine . Church-man . What is your sense upon the whole matter , and particularly as to these new Creeds ? Quaker . First , to the whole matter . If Christ as without us , and as ( as some call him ) God-Man , beheld forth to be the necessary Object of Faith , for Eternal Salvation , it quite overturns our whole Fabrick ; as W. P. ( I think very properly ) charged G. K. at Ratcliffe Meeting , that he did indeavour to pluck up the Testimony of Truth by the Roots , by preaching the necessity of Faith in Christ , as without us . This sort of Doctrine doth certainly undo all that we have been building , as in respect of our Christianity , which we thought was all one with Morality ; but now G. K. and his Associates , tell us , That Morality at best is but a part of Christianity ; and if it is not built on the Faith of Christ God-Man without us , it is not so much as a part of it , but pure Heathenism and Deism . But I cannot be of that mind , That Christ , considered as God-Man without us , in the necessary Object of our Faith for Salvation : For if this be granted , many great and sad Consequences will necessary follow that Concession , that will bring great Trouble upon us . And as to these new Creeds , the Authors of them had done better to have let them alone , and not published them ; for our Friends have oft declared against making Creeds and Confessions of Faith , as hurtful ; and I believe they will cause great breaches amongst us . Church-man . Why so ? Quaker . Because it is apparent , that our chief Leaders , that give out these new Creeds , not only contradict their elder Brethren , but also their own Books . And the sense of many of our Friends is , concerning G. W. and W. P. that they are not a-whit changed in their Faith , but that they give forth those new Creeds to quiet the Nation , and be a blind to them , to make all thing the Quakers Toleration is secured to them , as much as of any Dissenters ; for by these Creeds , all will be apt to thing , we are one in Faith and Doctrine , with all the Dissenters who are included in the Act of Toleration ; and that we own all the Articles of the Church of England , excepting some few , that are excepted in the Act it self in favour of such Dissenters as are of the same Faith with your Church in all the other Articles . Church-man . It seems your chief Leaders have some of the Policy of the Jesuits , and other Popish Orders , that to lye and dissemble is no Sin , providing the Peace of the Church can be preserved thereby . Quaker . I cannotdeny , but that some of our chief Leaders , and particularly W. P. and G. W. seem to agree with them in such Politicks , as in too many other things ; which is a great grief to many sincere and simple-hearted persons among us . Church-man . But do ye not in good earnest believe the twelve Articles of the Apostles Creed ? Quaker . As for my self , I cannot say that I believe them all , for there are divers of them I do not believe , and so I am perswaded many hundreds of our Friends do not believe them no more than I do ; for the very Books of our Friends , of best account with us , hath taught us to believe the contrary ; and none have more plainly led us into a contrary Belief , than the Books of G. W. and W. P. Church-man . Pray what Articles , or parts of that Creed , do ye and many of your Friends not believe ; and what Passages in your Friends Books have led you not to believe them ? Quaker . Your Creed , that ye commonly call the Apostles Creed , hath three distinct Articles in it ; one concerning your Belief in God the Father ; a second concerning your Belief in Christ , the only begotten Son , conceived by the Holy Ghost , and born of the Virgin Mary , that suffered under Pontius Pilate , was crucified , dead and buried ; and a third concerning your Belief in the Holy Ghost ; By which it is plain to me , and I think ye will not deny it , that your Creed holds forth a distinction of Father , Son , and Holy Ghost , as three distinct Persons , distinguished by certain incommunicable Properties , as ye commonly call them ; otherwise , why make ye three Articles concerning them , but that ye believe them to be three distinct Persons ? But both G. W's Books , and W. P's , have taught us a plaint contrary Belief ; and what they have taught us , we believed that they had given them by Divine Inspiration ; for G. W. in his Divinity of Christ , denyeth any distinction of Persons ; and in his Truth defending the Quakers , denyeth that they are distinguished by incommunicable Properties ; and W. P. in his Sandy Foundation , hath not only argued against three Persons , but against three , in any sense or respect , otherwise than nominally , as he somewhere words it ; as to say , three Manifestations , or three differing Names . But at this rate ye may infer thirty as well as three ; for it is certain , there are thirty various Names given to God in Scripture , and many more ; and there are as many various Manifestations and Operations . Again , whereas your Creed teacheth you to believe , that he who suffered under Pontius Pilate was the Son of God , W. P. in his Serious Apology , hath taught us a contrary Belief , That that outward Person that suffered at Jerusalem ( so he calleth him that was born of Mary , ) was not properly the Son of God ; and saith plainly , we utterly deny it . And G. W. in his Christian Quaker , denyeth that Christ did consist of Flesh and Bones ; he grants he had a Body of Flesh and Bones , but denyeth that he did consist of it , that is , as any part of him , as you and I have our Bodies of Flesh and Bones to be parts of us ; and we consist of them , as well as we have our more noble parts , to wit , our Souls , of which we also consist . Church-man . But if ye believe that he who outwardly suffered Death at Jerusalem , was properly the Son of God , ye must also not believe , that he who was born of Mary was properly the Son of God. Quaker . No more we do ; for the Son and the Father are but two Names , and but one God ; and if we should believe that he that was born of Mary was the Son of God , we should believe that he was God , and so Mary should be the Mother of God ; which , as G. W. hath taught us to believe , is plain Popery . Church-man . If that Child that was born of Mary was not properly the Son of God , pray whose Son was he ; for every Son must have some Father ? Quaker . He was the Son of Mary . Church-man . Mary was not his Father , but his Mother ; who was his Father ? Quaker . Abraham and David . Church-man . Abraham and David were his remote Fathers , as your Grand-Fathers and great Grand-Fathers were your remote Fathers ; but who was the immediate Father of Christ , if not God ? And if God was his immediate Father , then surely he was properly the Son of God , and God was properly his Father . Quaker . I am not for answering thy ensnaring Questions , nor for disputing with thee . Church-man . Pray what other Articles in our Creed do ye not believe ? Quaker . That Article in your Creed , that Christ descended into Hell ; and that other Article , that he arose the third day , and afterwards ascended into Heaven ; if by Hell and Heaven ye mean local places without us . Church-man . We do indeed by Hell and Heaven , mean local places , without us . Quaker . But W. P. hath taught us to believe , that a local Heaven or Hell is Mahometan ; and G. W. hath taught us , that to say , Christ existeth Bodily without us at God's right hand , in a personal existence , is Anthropomorphitism and Muggletonism . Church-man . Do ye believe that Christ was buried ? Quaker . That outward Person that was crucified on the wooden Cross , and was buried , was not the Christ of God ; but the Christ of God was in that outward Person that was crucified and buried . I pity thy Ignorance , to think that any thing that was mortal , or could dye , could be Christ ; or that Christ could be buried . Our worthy Friend John Whitehead hath taught us , that nothing that is mortal can be called Christ ; and G. W. hath told us , that Christ was never seen with carnal Eyes ; and our Friend W. P. hath proved it against J. Faldo , that it was not Christ that did hang on the Cross , but the Body in which Christ was . Church-man . But what say ye to the places of Scripture , that expresly say , that Christ dyed and was buried ? as 1 Cor. 15. 3 , 4. Quaker . Our inspired Teachers have taught us , that the Scriptures are not always to be understood literally . Church-man . At this rate , I fear , ye believe scarcely one Article of our Creed . Do ye believe that the same Body of Jesus that was buried , rose again , and ascended into Heaven ? Quaker . We believe that Jesus rose again , but not that he rose in the same Body , or that he ascended in the same Body ; for he rose in a Spiritual Body , that came in , the doors being shut , as the Disciples were met together : But the Body that did hang on the Cross , and was buried , was a Carnal or Natural Body , and Christ's Body is Heavenly and Spiritual , and is in us ; for we eat it , as W. P. hath argued , and nobly defended our ancient Friend G. P. but that was not the Carnal Body that was crucified and buried ; and G. W. in his Light and Life , hath taught us , that an Earthly Body and a Heavenly Body cannot be the same Substance ; and W. P. hath taught us , in his Answer to J. Faldo , that to say , a Natural Body can be changed to a Spiritual Body , and yet be the same in Substance , is to out-do the absurd Doctrine of Transubstantiation . Church-man . Do ye believe that other Article of our Creed , that Christ will come , in a Bodily Existence without us , as the Son of Mary , to judge the quick and the dead ? Quaker . We cannot believe any such Carnal Notion , for that supposeth that Christ is in Heaven , as in a local place , without us , and has our true Nature in Heaven ; but Ed. Burr . our great Prophet , hath taught us , that it is Blasphemy to say that Christ is in Heaven , in our Nature ; also it contradicts G. W. Church-man . Do ye believe that Article of our Creed , the forgiveness of Sins ? Quaker . We do not believe it as ye state it , and according to your Notion of it . Church-man . Why ? What is our Notion of it , that ye do not believe it ? Quaker . Ye tell us , God forgives you your Sins , upon the account of Christ's having paid the Debt of your Sins , and having satisfied the Justice of God for them ; but we have no such Belief ; for W. Pen hath taught us , that a Debt cannot be both paid and freely forgiven ; and this he saith , doth totally exclude Satisfaction . And you tell us , that we must not only repent , but believe in the Man Christ without us ; and that such a Faith is absolutely necessary to our forgiveness : This we altogether deny ; for this would contradict our ancient Faith , That the Light within us in sufficient to Salvation , without any thing else . Ye are so ignorant , as not to distinguish betwixt a Historical Faith , and a Saving Faith : The Historical Faith is your Faith , in a Christ without you , that dyed at Jerusalem above Sixteen Hundred Years past ; but the Saving Faith is in the Power of God within us , the Light and Life , and that is the true and proper Christ . Besides , your Doctrine of Remission of Sins , teacheth you to pray for a daily forgiveness , because ye sin daily ; so that in your Common-Prayer , from Seven to Seventy , ye are still praying , God be merciful to us miserable Sinners , as W. P. hath well observed . We neither need nor expect such a forgiveness ; and therefore we are not taught so to pray , nor do we use such Prayers for our selves ; as Strangers that frequent our Publick Meetings can sufficiently inform thee . Church-man . Do ye own the Resurrection of the Body that dyeth , and that the deceased Saints look for the Resurrection of their Bodies ? Quaker . Nay ; for if the deceased Saints look for any such Resurrection , as W. P. hath taught us , it would follow they were in some Purgatory for the time ; and he hath also taught us , that a Natural Body , and a Spiritual Body , are two Bodies . Church-man . I am greatly amazed ; I did not think that ye did so universally disbelieve our Creed , as I find ye do ; for I cannot understand that ye believe any one Article of it , as stated by us , and all Orthodox Christians throughout the whole World. Quaker . What talks thou to me of your Orthodox Christians ; we deny you to be Christians , but in Name : But suppose we believed all your twelve Articles , as stated by you , what would that Faith profit us ? How many of them think ye necessary to our Salvation , to be believed by us ? Church-man . I think all of them very necessary . Quaker . And I think scarce any of them , as stated by you , to be necessary . Church-man . Pray why ? Quaker . Nothing is necessary to be believed by us to our Salvation , but what the Light within us , which is the same in every Man , teacheth us to believe ; but there is scarce one of your twelve Articles that our Light within us teacheth us to believe ; for if it did , it would teach our Jewish and Mahometan Brethren , and many other pious Gentiles , and excellent Moral Livers , these Articles of your Creed ; but this it doth Not. Church-man . Do ye then take all Just and Moral Men , Jews and Mahometans , that profess the same Light within , and obey its dictates , to be your Christian Brethren ? Quaker . Yea we do ; for W. P. hath taught us in his Address to Protestants , that it is uncharitable to exclude any meer just Man from our Society ; and there are many just Men among them . Church-man . But why think ye , that to take Christ God-Man , without you , to be the Object of your Faith , together with the Light within you , will bring any great inconveniences , and sad inferences and consequences upon you ? Quaker . Yea , Time would fail to number them all ; I will mention some of them to thee . First , as I told thee before , it quite overturns our whole Fabrick , that we have been building almost these Fifty Years past , and plucks up by the Roots the Testimony of ancient Friends ; yea , and our present Testimony among our selves : For Christ God-Man , as they phrase it , without us in Heaven , in a Bodily Existence , is the World 's Christ , which our Friends neither think necessary , nor profitable to preach ; for we find , that the preaching of it hath not profited the Hearers ; and as our great Prophet Ed. Burr . hath taught us , the Light of Christ within , is only that which is necessary to be taught for Salvation . Secondly , That Doctrine of a Christ God-Man without us , being the necessary Object of our Faith , will necessarily infer , that we must set up another Rule of Faith , than the Light within us , to wit , the Scriptures : For whatever is a Ru●e of Faith , must propose to our Minds all the things necessary to be believed , and the full and compleat Object of Faith ; but this the Light within us doth not . If Christ God-Man be the necessary Object of our Faith , as he was conceived by the Holy Ghost , born of a Virgin , dyed , rose again the third day , and ascended into Heaven , none of all which doth our Light within us teach us to believe ; but the Scripture without us , by way of History , teacheth some such things ; and this is but a Historical Belief , which some of our Friends have , [ may be as amply as ye , ] but many more have it not . This Historical Belief we little regard ; for as he that hath it , is not profited by it to his Salvation , so he that hath it not is not hurt , nor in danger for want of it . Church-man . But I have heard some of you call it beneficial , though not absolutely necessary . Quaker . Some of us may call it so , and perhaps think it so ; but I , and many other faithful Friends do not think it so ; for it is but the Letter that kills the Flesh profits nothing , it is only the Spirit that quickens ; Paul renounced his knowledge of Christ after the Flesh . Pray , what profit can be in that Faith to us , that plucks up our ancient Testimony by The Roots , as W. P. hath well observed . Church-man . I have heard some of you call the Scriptures a secondary Rule of Faith ; and I think I have Read it in some of your Friends Books . Quaker . Perhaps thou hast ; but all that was daubing with untempered mortar : Thou shalt find no such distinction , I warrant thee , in any of our most ancient and most approved Friends Books . If the Scripture be allowed to be a secondary Rule , it teacheth nothing but what the primary Rule , the Light within us , and in every Man , first teacheth ; but the Light within us , and in every Man , teacheth us , not that Historical Faith and Doctrine thou contendest for ; as that Christ is God and Man in one Person , having two Natures , and that as such he is the Object of Faith and Worship . Church-man . Possibly some of your Friends that hold the Scripture to be a secondary Rule will say , the Light in all Men would reveal Christ God-Man , without them , to be the Object of their Faith and Worship , if all Men were duly faithful and obedient to it . Quaker . If they say or think so , they are greatly mistaken . How many hundreds of faithful Men have we of our Brethren , both Jews and Mahometans , and how many Deists have we here in England , who are excellent Men for Sobriety and Justice , and are obedient to the Light within them , and take it for their Rule of Faith and Life ; and yet if ye ask them if their Light within them doth teach them any thing of a Christ without them , they will plainly tell you , nay . Church-man . But I find not that your Christian Brethren , the Jews and Mahometans , and your Deist Brethren here in England , own or confess a Christ in them : They seem as ignorant of any knowledge , or Faith of a Christ within them , as of a Christ without them . Quaker . Names of things are no wise material . What if they call not Christ in them by the outward Names , Christ and Jesus ? It is enough to their Christianity and Salvation , that they inwardly feel the Power , Life and Virtue , of the thing it self . they call it the Light within , and magnifie it with other high Titles , and that is sufficient . Church-man . Pray what other hurtful Consequences would your owning the necessity of Christ God-Man without you , as the great , yea and only Object of your Faith , considered as your High Priest , and only Atonement for the Remission of Sins , bring upon you ? Quaker . A third hurtful Consequence if this , It would exceedingly lessen the number of our Christian Brethren , and abridge our Charity , which is now very diffusive and large , as the Sand of the Sea. Ye talk of your Catholick Church ; but our Church is more Catholick and Universal than yours . The Members of your Church are only such , as believe in Jesus of Nazareth , and hold all , or the greatest part , of that ye call the Apostles Creed , whereof we have already discoursed at large ; but the Members of our Church , who are one Body with us , are all just and sober Men , of Jews and Mahometans , and remotest Nations , that own a great God Almighty , and obey the Dictates of the Light within them . A fourth very hurtful Consequence is , That if the Doctrine of a Christ God-Man without us , be received among us , as the necessary Object of our Faith for Salvation , it will bring in so many other things with it , by necessary Consequence , that we shall ere long be one with you , both in Doctrine and Practice ; and then we shall be utterly at a loss to justifie our Separation from you : yea , fifthly , we should be constrained to return to the outward Baptism , and Supper , which we have all along called Beggerly Elements and Worldly Rudiments , [ as some that were among us lately have done ] ; and daily to pray for the Pardon of our Sins . And lastly , this new Scheme of Doctrine , if introduced among us , will not only deprive our Friends ( of the Ministry ) of their Infallibility , for which they have so earnestly contended , but will break our Meetings of all sorts , and wonderfully divide and scatter us , by the confusion of the manner of Preaching that will be among us , and is begun to be among us already in divers parts , to the great Grief of many sincere Souls , even as the People , by the Confusion of the Languages , at Babylon , were scattered asunder . Church-man . But Friend , it has of late been ( divers times ) queried of your Friends , whether Ja. Nayler was a Blasphemer , yea or nay , and I cannot get a direct Answer . Pray what think you ? Quaker . Ohno , we cannot admit of a plain Answer ; for if we say no , then the Apostate Christians will be ready to stone us : If we say yea , then will they prove it upon us , that Geo. Fox , Edw. Burrough , Sol. Eccles , and others of our ancient Friends were Balsphemers : And thou knowest that would go down ruggedly , and would not suit our present Interest . Church-man . Farewel ; I think thee for thy free Discourse and Plainness , though I greatly pity thy Ignorance . Quaker . And I far rather pity thine . Farewel . POSTSCRIPT . WHat the Quakers formerly objected against either G. K. his giving them a Publick Challenge to a Dispute , or their accepting it , being against the Magna Charta , and the Fundamental Laws of the Nation , is sufficiently made void , by the late Practice of some of the Teachers of the Quakers , who gave a Challenge to the Clergy in Norfolk , or any of their Cloth , to P●lick Debate . And suppose ( as they would have it ●●derstood , though very unjustly ) the Quakers gave not the Challenge , yet they cannot deny , with any shadow of Reason , but that they accepted at least the Challenge , given ( as they say ) by the Clergy ; and at the Place and Time appointed came from divers places ; particularly some of their Teachers came from London , to ingage in that Debate . Will it not therefore be great Cowardice , and conviction of Guilt , if G. W. and W. P. or any others concerned , will neither give a Challenge to G. K. whom they charge to have wronged them , nor accept of his Challenge ? If they will not give me a Challenge , they are once more desired to accept of mine ; and let us agree , about Time and Place : Or if they will not agree about them , with what colour can they blame me , if I shall once more appoint Time and Place to them , and prove out of their , and their Friends Books owned by them , that their new Creeds are utterly repugnant to the Doctrine formerly delivered in their Printed Books ; and that it is a manifest fallacy that their late Creed , given forth at Bristol , obtrudes upon the Nation , viz. That the Quakers believe all the Articles of the Apostles Creed ? For I am ready to prove , face to face , before any Judicatory , Ecclesiastical or Civil , ( what is asserted in this Dialogue ) that they believe not truly and rightly one Article of it , according to Scripture , and the true universal sense of sound Christians in all Ages . G. K. ADVERTISEMENT . THE Principles here charged on the chief Leaders among the People called Quakers , particularly G. W. and W. P. are clearly proved out of G. K's three Narratives , and the late Printed Sheet , called , An Abstract by way of Index , &c. and other late Treatises published against them ; and can be further proved by the open and plain Confessions given frequently by some of that People .