George Keith's Fourth narrative of his proceedings at Turners-hall divided into three parts : detecting the Quakers gross errors, vile heresies, and antichristian principles, oppugning the fundamentals of Christianity, by clear and evident proofs (in above two hundred and fifty quotations) faithfully taken out of their books, and read at three several meetings, the 11th, the 18th, and 23d of Jan., 1699 before a great auditory of judicious persons, ministers, and others, more particularly discovering the fallacious and sophistical defences of George Whitehead, Joseph Wyeth, and seven Quakers of Colchester, in their late books on all the several heads contained in the printed advertisement : to which is prefix'd, the attestation of five ministers of the Church of England, to the truth of the said quotations, and a postcript [sic] / by George Keith. Fourth narrative of his proceedings at Turners-Hall Keith, George, 1639?-1716. 1700 Approx. 472 KB of XML-encoded text transcribed from 65 1-bit group-IV TIFF page images. Text Creation Partnership, Ann Arbor, MI ; Oxford (UK) : 2005-12 (EEBO-TCP Phase 1). A47145 Wing K167 ESTC R2430 13070924 ocm 13070924 97123 This keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the Early English Books Online Text Creation Partnership. This Phase I text is available for reuse, according to the terms of Creative Commons 0 1.0 Universal . The text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. Early English books online. (EEBO-TCP ; phase 1, no. A47145) Transcribed from: (Early English Books Online ; image set 97123) Images scanned from microfilm: (Early English books, 1641-1700 ; 743:2) George Keith's Fourth narrative of his proceedings at Turners-hall divided into three parts : detecting the Quakers gross errors, vile heresies, and antichristian principles, oppugning the fundamentals of Christianity, by clear and evident proofs (in above two hundred and fifty quotations) faithfully taken out of their books, and read at three several meetings, the 11th, the 18th, and 23d of Jan., 1699 before a great auditory of judicious persons, ministers, and others, more particularly discovering the fallacious and sophistical defences of George Whitehead, Joseph Wyeth, and seven Quakers of Colchester, in their late books on all the several heads contained in the printed advertisement : to which is prefix'd, the attestation of five ministers of the Church of England, to the truth of the said quotations, and a postcript [sic] / by George Keith. Fourth narrative of his proceedings at Turners-Hall Keith, George, 1639?-1716. [8], 116, [4] p. Printed for Brabazon Aylmer ..., London : 1700. Includes bibliographical references. Errata: p. [1]-[2] at end. "A catalogue of the authors and books of Quakers, quoted in this narrative, and some books of their opponents": p. [3]-[4] at end. Reproduction of original in Union Theological Seminary Library, New York. Created by converting TCP files to TEI P5 using tcp2tei.xsl, TEI @ Oxford. Re-processed by University of Nebraska-Lincoln and Northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. Gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. 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Copies of the texts have been issued variously as SGML (TCP schema; ASCII text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable XML (TCP schema; characters represented either as UTF-8 Unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless XML (TEI P5, characters represented either as UTF-8 Unicode or TEI g elements). Keying and markup guidelines are available at the Text Creation Partnership web site . eng Whitehead, George, 1636?-1723. Wyeth, Joseph, 1663-1731. Society of Friends -- Controversial literature. 2005-05 TCP Assigned for keying and markup 2005-06 Aptara Keyed and coded from ProQuest page images 2005-07 Rachel Losh Sampled and proofread 2005-07 Rachel Losh Text and markup reviewed and edited 2005-10 pfs Batch review (QC) and XML conversion George Keith's FOURTH NARRATIVE , OF HIS PROCEEDINGS AT TURNERS-HALL , 1699. WE , whose Names are under written , having ( at Mr. Keith's Request , and by the Allowance of the Right Reverend the Lord Bishop of London ) carefully examin'd the Quotations of this Narrative , do testifie the Faithfulness of them , and that they exactly agree with the Books out of which they are taken . And as we commend his Integrity , in retracting publickly his Errors , and his Christian Zeal for the reducing of his Brethren who are yet entangled with them ; so we hope , they will follow his Example , and discern the Perniciousness of their Ways , and be led , by the Grace of God , to the Acknowledgment of the Truth , and to the Communion of the Church . Z. Isham , D. D. Rector of St. Botolph Bishops-gate . W. Bedford , D. D. Rector of St. George Botolph-Lane . R. Altham , B. D. Rector of St. Andrew Vndershaft . Will. Whitfield , Rector of St. Martins at Ludgate . J. Adams , Rector of St. Alban , Woodstreet . George Keith's FOURTH NARRATIVE , OF HIS PROCEEDINGS AT TURNERS-HALL . Divided into Three Parts : Detecting the Quakers Gross Errors , Vile Heresies , and Antichristian Principles , oppugning the Fundamentals of Christianity , by clear and evident Proofs ( in above Two Hundred and Fifty Quotations ) faithfully taken out of their Books , and read at three several Meetings , the 11th , the 18th , and 23d of Jan. 1699. before a great Auditory of Judicious Persons , Ministers , and others : More particularly discovering the Fallacious and Sophistical Defences of George Whitehead , Joseph Wyeth , and seven Quakers of Colchester , in their late Books on all the several Heads contained in the printed Advertisement . To which is prefix'd , The Attestation of five Ministers of the Church of England , to the Truth of the said Quotations ; And a POSTCRIPT . By GEORGE KEITH . LONDON : Printed for Brabazon Aylmer , at the Three Pigeons against the Royal Exchange in Cornhill , 1700. Advertisement . THIS is to signifie , that it is my purpose ( God-willing , and by his Assistance ) to be present at Turners-Hall in Philpot-Lane by Fanchurch-Street in London , being our ordinary Meeting-place , Licensed by Authority , on the Eleventh Day of the Eleventh Month called January , in the Forenoon ; there to detect and discover Gross Errors and Anti-christian Principles , plainly repugnant to the Fundamentals of Christianity , in the Books of the approved Authors and Writers of the People called Quakers , by ocular Inspection presenting them , in fair and full Quotations , to as many as are willing to be present and make Inspection into them . And also to lay open the great Fallacy and Sophistry of George Whitehead and Joseph Wyeth , and some of their Brethren at Colchester , which they have used in their late printed Defences of their Own , and their Brethrens most Erronious Passages contained in their Books , in order to Cloak and Hide their Antichristian Principles and vile Errors , not only to the great Scandal of all true Protestants in this Nation , of whom they pretend to be the more refined Part , but of all true Christians any where . And I do hereby desire , George Whitehead and Joseph Wyeth , and their Brethren of the Second Days Meeting at London , who have approved their late Books , to be present at the said Meeting ( for which I have Permission by Civil Authority ) or any others who think themselves concerned , at the Time and Place above-mentioned , to hear and see out of their own Books , their Errors and Fallacies detected , who if they have any thing to offer in their own , or Brethrens Defence , shall be fairly heard . The particular Errors that I intend ( God-willing ) to discover them guilty of , out of their Books and Authors , are , Concerning their Pretences to Infallibility and sinless Perfection . Concerning the Scriptures . Concerning the Holy Trinity . Concerning Christ , his Incarnation , his Soul and Body and Blood , his coming to Judgment at the Last Day . Concerning Justification . Concerning the Soul. Concerning the Light within . Concerning the Resurrection . Concerning the outward Baptism , and the Supper . Concerning doing servile Work on the First Day . George Keith . London , 18th 10th Month , 1699-1700 . A few Words of PREFACE TO THE IMPARTIAL READERS . IMpartial Readers , I have these few things to acquaint you with , and recommend to your Consideration . First , that I found just and necessary Cause to recite diverse former Quotations given in my former Narratives , and in other Books formerly publish'd against the Quakers Errors , to detect the fallacious and sophistical Defences that they have made in their late Books , in Vindication of those Quotations , to cover their vile Errors . Secondly , Beside the former Quotations above mentioned , I have brought many new Quotations , which are neither in my former Narratives , nor in any other Books that hitherto have been published against them , which obviates the cavelling of the Quakers , who would be ready to say , There is nothing to be expected of new Matter , but what is contained in other Books , and which hath been already answered by them : The contrary whereof will sufficiently appear to any that shall compare this fourth Narrative , with any other Books , before this , published against them . Thirdly , Whereas the common Objection of the Quakers , is , That their Books are neither fully nor fairly quoted : To remove the Ground of any such Objection , I have got the Attestation of Persons of known Integrity and Judgment , to the Truth of them ( as I got the like Attestation from some , the former Year , to attest to my third Narrative . ) I have given the Quotations as fully and fairly as is requisite to satisfie any reasonable Persons . But the Men I have to deal with , for all this , will ( I expect ) renew their unjust Complaint , and will tell their Readers , This and the other Passage , going before , or following , should have been inserted in the Quotations ; whereas the not inserting of them , makes not their Cause one whit the worse , nor the inserting them , makes their Cause one whit the better , as could be shewed in many Instances , and is shewed in their late Books , for when so much is quoted out of any Book , that gives the full Sense of the Writer ; whatever is more , is superfluous . Note , for a Proof on the last Head , That the Quakers deny the Moral Law or Ten Commandments , to be a Rule to the Christian's Life , and thereupon do not blame , but justifie doing servile Work on the first Day , yea , and in the Face of a Congregation , while the Minister was preaching . See p. 28. of this Narrative . G. K. George Keith's Fourth Narrative , OF HIS Proceedings at Turners-Hall , 1699. For the Detecting the QUAKERS ERRORS . The first Part giving an Account of his Proofs on the first four Heads , contained in his printed Advertisement , viz. Concerning , I. Their Infallibility , II. Their sinless Perfection , III. The Scriptures , IV. The Holy Trinity . Proofs out of the Quakers Books , on the first Head , concerning their Infallibility . 1. GEORGE Fox , Great Mystery , pag. 105. For who witness these Conditions that they were in , that gave forth the Scriptures ? They witness Infallibility , an infallible Spirit , which is now possessed and witnessed among those called Quakers . Glory to the Highest for ever Again , a little after , So Isay , the Devil , false Prophets , Antichrists , Deceivers , Beast , Mother of Harlots ; none of these can witness an infallible Spirit . But being out of the Spirit , that Christ , the Prophets and Apostles was in , that gave forth Scriptures , they are not infallible as they were , but with that they are all judged out . II. Great Mystery , pag. 98. And thou and you all that speak and write , and not from God immediately and infallibly , as the Apostles did , and Prophets , and Christ ; but only have gotten the Words ; you are all under the Curse in another Spirit ravenned from the Spirit that was in the Apostles . Saul 's Errand to Damascus , pag. 7. They are Conjurers and Diviners , and their Teaching is from Conjuration , which is not spoken from the Mouth of the Lord , and the Lord is against all such , and who are of God are against all such . Truth defended , by G. F. and Rich. Hubb , p. 104. Our giving forth Papers or printed Books , it is from the immediate eternal Spirit of God , to the shewing forth the filthy Practices of the World's Teachers , &c. George Whitehead , Voice of Wisdom , pag 33. his Opponent , Th. Danson , having said , As for our Want of Infallibility , 't is no valid Plea against our Ministry . G.W. answers , His Falshood here appears plainly , for they that want Infallibility , and have not the Spirit of Christ , they are out of the Truth , and are fallible , and their ministry is not of the Spirit , seeing they speak not from the Spirit , but from their own Hearts , which are deceitful , where they want Infallibility , so out of the Abundance of the Heart , the Mouth speaketh . Note , Jos . Wyeth , in his Switch for the Snake , p. 87. states the Question concerning their Infallibility , fallaciously in three several Particulars . 1. That the holy Spirit of God is infallible , &c. This is no Part of the Controversie . 2. That the holy Spirit leads all such who obey him , infallibly into all Truth necessary to Salvation : This is wrongly stated , the true State of the Question being , Whether the Holy Spirit leads us into all Truth necessary to Salvation , without the external Doctrine , externally delivered in the holy Scriptures , by preaching and reading , and without all external means ? This they affirm , as shall hereafter be proved ; but this all sound Christians deny , who yet grant , that all the Faithful are infallibly led into all Truth necessary to Salvation , by the infallible Spirit , in the Use of the holy Scriptures , which contain the infallible Truths of the Gospel . 3. That the Ministers who are sent forth in the Work of the Ministry , have , or may have ( if they diligently attend to the Voice of the infallible Spirit speaking in them ) a certain infallible Knowledge and Assurance of the Truth of what they so deliver . This also is wrongly stated , the true State is not what they have or may have , but what they really have in all they preach and write , as is clear from the above given Quotations of G. F. and G. W. their great Leaders . To say , they may have , implies that they may not have , and in that case they are fallible , and so by their own Verdict , are under the Curse , Conjurers , Deceivers . Note , that their great Teachers and Leaders , G. F. and G. W. have taught , that the infallible teaching of the Spirit , is not by the medium or external Means of the Scriptures , and that Faith is not given by the external Word , doth appear from their Books . 1. G.F. Gr. Myst . pag. 350. Ye tell People of an outward ordinary means by which Christ communicates the Benefit of Redemption . The means of Salvation is not ordinary nor outward , but Christ is the Salvation , who is eternal . 2. Gr. M. p. 133. His Opponent , T. Moor , having said , The Scripture is the absolute Rule and Medium of our Faith. In pag. 134. he answereth , The Scriptures is not the Author , nor the Means of it , nor the Rule , but Christ who gives it , and he encreaseth it . 3. Gr. Myst . pag. 243. And the things of the Gospel , and of the Spirit are not attained by an external means . 4. Gr. Myst . pag. 320. His Opponents having said , God works Faith in us inwardly by his Spirit , and outwardly by his Word . He answers , Here thou goest about to make the Spirit and the Word not one ; is not the Word Spiritual , and Christ called the Word ? Gr. Myst . p. 168. Them that never heard the Scripture outwardly , the Light that every Man hath that cometh into the World , being turned to it , with that they will see Christ , with that they will know Scripture , with that they will be led out of all Delusion , come into Covenant with God , with which they will come to worship God in the Spirit , and serve him . Note , the Quakers that say , they are turned to the Light , yet are not led out of all Delusion , but many of them are under great Delusions and Error , concerning the great Truths of the Gospel , as doth evidently appear by these and the following Quotations . A Quotation being brought out of Gr. Myst . in the Snake of the Grass ; Thou cast not know the Scriptures , but by the same Degree of the Spirit that the Prophets and Apostles had . Jos . Wyeth saith , in his Switch , By the Error of the Press , the Word ALL is left out : For which he quotes Gr. Myst . pag. 212. In answer to this , hear what G. F. saith in Gr. M. pag. 120. And he that hath found the true Record , the Spirit of God ; with that he shall know ALL the Scriptures , and is come within the Book where all things are written , and which writes all things forth , the Spirit . Note , G. F. no doubt , and G. W. did think they had found the true Record , the Spirit , &c. and therefore they knew ALL Scripture , and had the same Degree that the Prophets and Apostles had . G. F. G. M. p. 222. The Light , &c. is the Substance of all Scriptures , opens all Scriptures , and that all Scriptures ends in : Le ts see all Scripture . But that the Quotation of the Switch , G. M. p. 212. is lamely made , the following Words prove , that some of the Quakers at least did understand ( as they thought ) ALL Scripture . The Passage is this ; But they cannot know all Scriptures , but as they vttain to the full Measure of the Spirit of the Prophets and Apostles , and to the Measure and Stature , and Fullness of Christ : And if they do not attain to all this , they are not able to know all the Scriptures , and the Work of the Ministers of God , was to bring People to this , to the Measure , and Stature , and Fullness of Christ. Note , that they thought their Ministry had brought some of the Quakers to this ; we shall see hereafter , and no doubt they judged they were come to it , viz. G. F. and G. W , Gr. M. p. 47. The Light which every one hath that cometh into the World , is sufficient to Salvation without the Help of any other Means or Discovery . But which is much more than that of Degrees ! G. F. tells of them that were come to that , which is above Degrees . Gr. Myst . pag. 281. And the Blood of the Seed it cleanseth from Sin , the Power and Stain of it ; and then the Guilt is gone of it , and where this is known , the Seed that destroys Death ; and him that hath the Power of it , which is the Devil ; the Fullness is known , which is above Degrees , that which Degrees ends in . Again , G. Myst . pag. 318. For who comes to the Spirit , and to Christ , comes to that which is perfect , who comes to the Kingdom of Heaven in them , comes to be perfect , yea , to a perfect Man , and that is above any Degree . Note , by this it appears , G. F. thought himself , and some others of the Quakers , come above any Degree , and that is beyond and above the Apostles themselves , who were but in the Degrees , but they were come to the Fulness it self , that is , to be equal with Christ himself . But let us next hear G. Whitehead 's Excuse of G , F's Saying , None can understand Scripture , but by the same Degree of the Spirit the Prophets and Apostles had . In his late Book , called Truth and Innocency , pag. 19. But if any true Knowledge of the Scripture be received , that must be by a Degree of the same Spirit , as I suppose , the Words before-cited should be so transposed , and so intended . Note , If this Liberty be allowed , to transpose Words in a Sentence , the falsest Assertions may be made true , and the truest made false , as Acts 12. It 's said , Herod killed James , by transposing James killed Herod . Is not this a rare Evidence of G. W's Truth and Innocency , or rather of his shameful Sophistry : But whereas he saith , the Words were so intended , the above Quotations prove that G. F's Intention was , that some of the Quakers , and to be sure HE for one , were come to the same Degree ; yea , which is more , to the Fullness , and that is above any Degree . But it 's no wonder G. F. thought he was come to such Height of Perfection , when he said in his Battle-door , All Languages are to me no more than Dust , who was before Languages were : This Passage Jos . Wyeth quotes lamely , Switch , pag. 149. leaving out the Words , which were chiefly offensive , who was before Languages were . What saith Jos . Wyeth to this ? And why did he not fully quote it , as it was objected in the Snake ? It seems he found Difficulty to give a plain Answer to it , therefore made a lame Quotation . The like , or rather more blasphemous Assertion is in a Book of J. Parnel , called , The Watcher , p. 37. But to the end of all Disputes and Arguments , I am come ; for before they was , I am , and in the Light do them comprehend , and judge to be out of the Light in Babylon , &c. But here again let us note , that the Author of the Switch acts the dull Sophister very manifestly , when on the one hand he seems to be highly pleased with the Doctrine of the Church of England , in the Point of Inspiration , and saith , He is glad that so essential a Truth , as is the Inspiration of the holy Spirit , is owned by her : And on the other hand , for blaming the Author of the Snake , for his contradicting himself , by his approving the Inspirations owned by the Church of England , and yet faulting the Quakers Pretences to , Inspirations . The Author of the Snake had sufficiently cleared this , in his Book called the Snake , &c. pag. 322. what sort of Inspiration the Church of England owned , which is that of sanctifying and saving Graces ; but for the extraordinary and miraculous Inspirations of Prophecy and Tongues , she doth not pretend to , nor teach , that they are commonly given , or that they are to be sought , there being no need of them . The manner of prophetical Inspirations , which the Prophets and Apostles had , was such as they had given them by the Spirit , without all outward teaching of Men or Books ; and beside this , they had the ordinary Inspirations of the Spirit ( given in the use of the external means in God's ordinary way ) to wit , the sanctifying and saving Graces of the Spirit inspired into them . Here is a plain Difference betwixt the Inspirations which the Quakers pretend to , given them without the external means of hearing , reading , &c. and the Inspirations given in the use of the ordinary means of the written Word , both preached and read , that the Church of England lays claim unto , which makes the Sophistry of the Author of the Switch very manifest , and also his great Injustice to the Author of the Snake , so to charge him without ground . But let us hear what great matters the Author of the Switch pretends , that the Inspirations of the Light within , will teach them who attend upon it : It will ( saith he ) fully teach them their Duty to God , and enable them to perform it : It will discover to them a System of Principles truly Orthodox , with more Certainty than Counsel or Synod can , not taught by it ; for be is indeed a wonderful Counseller . It will first , fully and truly ( beyond any Casuist ) shew unto Man what is his Sin , and if Man despile not this Discovery , but close with it , it will beget in him a Loathing of his Sin , and then proceed to work in him a Repentance from dead Works , which if unfeigned , you see he is very cautious [ but why If unfeigned ? Can the Light within work any other Repentance but that which is unfeigned ? ] It will go on to sanctifie him ; and when Man , by this Light , Spirit , or Grace , is sanctified ; it will then witness to his Spirit that he is justified ; so will Man come truly to be redeemed . This ( he saith ) in short , is the Substance of what hath been by us declared , concerning this Divine Light , Christ in Man , and which is not more than is witnessed of it in the Holy Scriptures . Note , By this plain Confession , we see what sort of System of Divinity the Inspiration the Quakers plead for , doth , or will give them who attend upon it ; to wit , a-Scheme of Deism , or refined Paganism . In all this Substance of his whole System , not one word of Faith in Christ , as he outwardly dyed for our Sins ; his being the great Sacrifice for the Remission of our Sins , by Faith in his Blood outwardly , shed . But the Inspirations of the holy Prophets and Apostles taught them this Faith , and the necessity of it , as well as of Repentance for the Remission of Sins : And seeing the Quakers Inspiration teacheth them nothing of such a Faith , and the necessity of it , it is a plain case tho the Quakers pretend to the same Inspirations that the Prophets and Apostles had ; yet they have them not , nay , nor the ordinary Inspirations that common true Believers have , in and by the means of the external Doctrine contained in the holy Scriptures , that lead them to regard Christ outwardly , as he was crucified and raised again , and is at the Right Hand of God , in our Nature , as the great Object of their Faith : But this the Inspirations of the chief Teachers of the Quakers have led them not to regard . In the whole System of his Orthodox Principles , the Substance whereof he tells us he has given ; there is not one intire Article of the Creed , commonly called the Apostles Creed , mentioned ; nay , nor so much as implyed . And indeed , he cannot ( nor any of his Brethren ) by any real Evidence , convince any Man. that their Inspirations have taught them so much as one intire Article of that Creed , in the true Sense , generally received by true Christians ; and according to their Principles , they must not say , that the Spirit has given or wrought the Faith of the Articles of the Creed in them , by the medium or means of the outward Word ; for that is contrary to G. Fox's Doctrine above delivered , and as expresly contrary to the Doctrine of G. Whitehead , in his Brief Discovery of the dangerous Principles of John Horne , pag. 18. who blames J. Horne and T. Moor for having affirmed , that the Scriptures are the medium of Faith , [ i. e. the means by which Faith is wrought in Believers . ] There is no such Scripture ( saith G.W. ) as saith , the Scriptures are the Medium of Faith. Note , seeing the Quakers have not the Faith of Christ , as he was outwardly crucified , and died for our Sins , and rose again ; neither by the Light within them , nor by the medium of the Scriptures , as the Instrument of the holy Spirit , as other true Christians have it ; it is a plain case , they have no Faith of it at all , other than a meer historical Faith , as they have of any common History ; and indeed many of them have not that . G. Whitehead , in his Quakers Plainness , p. 70. brings a quibbling Distinction betwixt a means and the means , he grants , The Bible may be a means instrumentally , as God bestows a Blessing upon , or accompanies the serious reading thereof , as it directs to Christ Jesus , or to his Light and Spirit , which openeth the Vnderstanding in the holy Scriptures . And a little before he saith , Mark the Difference betwixt a means and the means , as between the Bible and Christ ; that may be a means which is not the means , Christ being the absolute way and means , by way of Eminency for Man to come to know God. But to shew the Fallacy of this Quibble : By the means are generally understood the instrumental and subordinate Causes , to the principal Agent and Efficient , which ought not to be confounded . Christ is the Author , and principal Efficient of our Knowledge of God ; and the Bible , i.e. the divine Oracles and Testimonies contained therein , are the means , and to say the means , or a means , is equivalent among all that know true English ; as when we say , Food and Raiment are the means to preserve our natural Life , or a means , the Sense is the same . But it is proved already out of G. F's Gr. Myst . p. 243. that G. F. denyed that the things of the Gospel , and of the Spirit , are attained by an external means ; will G. W's Distinction here serve him ? Will he again distinguish betwixt a means and an external means ? But let us apply this subtile Distinction of G.W. to the Words of G. F. in Saul's Errand , p. 6. who being charged that he said , He was the eternal Judge of the World , he confesseth it , and brings several Proofs , as he thinks , to prove it , as that the spiritual Man judgeth all things , and the Saints shall judge the World : Now , seeing G. W. will needs have a Distinction betwixt a means and the means , why not also betwixt a Judge of the World , and the Judge , yea , the eternal Judge of the World , as he professeth himself to be ? It was not enough that G. F. should be a Judge of the World , but the Judge , yea , the eternal Judge of the World ; and by G. W's Logick , G. F. was not a Judge , but the Judge , by way of Eminency ; yea , the eternal Judge of the World , But G. F. after his manner of frequently corrupting the Words of Scripture , as well as his Opponents Words , doth corruptly and falsly argue from that Scripture , 1 Cor. 6. 2. Do ye not know that the Saints shall judge the World : Note , the Words , shall judge , in the future , which G. F. corruptly applyeth to himself , in the present , or preterit . Tense , that he was or is the Judge , yea , the eternal Judge of the World. Lastly , To come yet more closely to G. W. himself , I will shew you how he denyeth the Scriptures to be a means for the Conversion of Jews and Heathens to the true Faith ; in Truth defending the Quakers , by G. W. qu. 35. pag. 51. And what is that the Gospel must be preached to , in the Heathens that will receive it ? And whether they that preach to Turks and Heathens , ought to preach out of a Text , and prove their Doctrine by Scripture to them , as the Priests do in England , yea or nay ? Note , By this Query , he not only excludes the Scripture from being the means , but a means for converting Turks and Heathens ; nor will his common Excuse of saying it was but a Query , help him : This sort of querying being the strongest way of denying or affirming , both in Scripture and all other Writings . Next let us hear W. Penn 's Confession concerning means , in his Key , printed , 1699. p. 12. pervers . 8. The Quakers assert the Spirit of God to be the immediate Teacher , and that there is no other means now to be used , as Ministry , Ordinances , &c. He answereth , They never spake such Language ... for they never denied the use of means , but to this Day , from the Beginning , they have been in the use of them ; but then they are such means as are used in the Life and Power of God. Note with what presumptuous Confidence , W. P. dareth to say , they never spake such Language , when G. F. their great Apostle , had plainly said , as above-quoted , that the things of the Gospel are not attained by AN external means : That they have been all along in the use of some means , as preaching , writing , and reading , is but to say , their Practice contradicts their Principles , which is very common to them : But to cover their Error , their way is to mistate the Question , as W. P. doth here , which is not whether outward means can truly profit , without the inward Aid and Assistance of the Spirit ; for this is generally granted that they cannot , which is equivalent to his Phrase , that the means then only profit when used in the Life and Power of God : And in very deed , their holding the Light within every Man sufficient to Salvation , without any thing else , as they do commonly teach , destroyeth all necessary use of outward means ; as who should say , a Man has that within him , that is sufficient to carry him to America without any thing else , as Boat or Ship , should be understood to say , he can walk on the Sea , or flie in the Air to that remote Place . The next thing in reference to their Infallibility , is their Pretence to the infallible discerning of Mens Hearts , without respect to their Works , good or bad . This is differently stated by them , and wherein we shall find a real Contradiction among them . G. F. in his Gr. Myst , pag. 89. had said , Here thou hast shewed , that the Quakers have a Spirit given to them , beyond all the Forefathers ( which we do witness ) since the Days of the Apostles in the Apostacy ; and they can discern who are Saints , who are Devils , and who are Apostates , without speaking ever a VVord , they that be in the Power and the Life of Truth . This discerning of Mens Hearts , G. VVhitehead had formerly placed upon outward Signs in the Countenances of wicked Men or Women , which he still justifieth in his Antitode . pag. 69. — Proud and haughty Looks , wanton and scornful Eyes , envious and fallen Countenances are rendred in Scripture , as outward Signs or Marks of such wicked Hearts , which also the Gift of discerning perceiveth , and gives to see many times through such outward mediums . Note , G. VV. here layeth a great Stress upon outward Signs in the Countenance , which he owneth to be outward mediums , through which the Spirit of discerning perceiveth , and giveth to see Mens Hearts , but yet he will not allow the Scriptures to be the medium of Faith , so preferreth outward Signs in the Countenance to the Scriptures , but then he much throweth down this sort of discerning by Mens Countenances , by saying many times , for this leaveth their discerning to be many times fallible ; and though the Scripture , and common Experience proveth , that the Countenances of some , openly vicious , and extreamly wicked , are Signs of their wicked Hearts , yet the Scripture giveth no universal Rule in the Case , but giveth us the Command of Christ , John 7. 24. Judge not according to Appearance , but judge righteous Judgment ; and it was said of Christ , He shall not judge after the Sight of his Eyes , nor reprove after the hearing of his Ears . But G. VV. will not take Christ in the case for his Example ; but he pleads further , That the Gift of discerning of Spirits is given to some Members especially ( and still is continued ) in the true Church , and from which discerning , Satan cannot be hid , however he transforms himself . Here is another minching of their Infallibility of discerning , that it 's given to some Members especially , but he doth not allow it to all Members ; however he seems to plead for all the Ministers having it , for he makes it an Evidence of great Darkness in his Opponents , to hold , that a Minister that is fallible is in the Spirit , a Minister of Christ , and yet cannot discern another Man's State or Condition , so as to give an infallible Character of him : And he contends so earnestly for this infallible discerning in the Church , that he saith , If there must be no discerning of Spirits . no infallible or certain Character to be given of other Men's States or Conditions , by an inward Sense or discerning of Spirits ; then Christ's Sheep may follow Strangers , VVolves , Dogs , &c. and so be devoured , contrary to his own Doctrine , and below the Sense and Instinct of the very Sheep , which leads them to shun Dogs and VVolves , when they make at them , whether they bark or howl , or be mute . Note , By this manner of G. VV's arguing , not only the Teachers , but all and every one of the People , if they be Sheep , must have this infallible discerning , whereas he pleads for the Ministers having it , or some Members ; so it seems the People must rely on the Ministers discerning by an implicit Faith , or if not , be in danger of perishing : But in plain Contradiction to this Doctrine of G.VV. who pleads for the infallible discerning of Men's Hearts , to every Minister ; let us hear Jos . VVyeth , who saith , Switch , p. 95. But though this holy Spirit can discover unto one , the Heart and Thoughts of another , as of Ananias to Peter , Acts 5. yet as that is not usual , so neither is it necessary , nor is it that which we pretend to ; nor hath G.F. in the fore-quoted Places , pretended to it , referring to the above-quoted Passage , where he makes this Observation , Switch , p. 90. — VVhich does very plainly shew , that G. F. did not attribute this Knowledge or Discerning to the Quakers or any Man , but to the Power and Life of Truth , where it is manifested . This Gloss , as it is directly contradictory to G. Fox's Words , which say , They , i.e. the Quakers that be in the Power and Life of Truth can discern ; so to the Words of G. W. who doth affirm , That some of the Members especially have it . But both G. F. and G. VV. hath carried this discerning farther than by the outward medium of Men's Looks and Glances , so that they can know the inward States of their Hearers , without looking to their Faces , yea , though their Backs be toward them ; and not only what they are at present , but what they have been , and shall be from Eternity to Eternity . For Proof of this , G. F. Gr. M. quotes his Opponents , saying , VVill a discerning of the Gospel Mysteries prove a Power to discern the State and Condition of Souls , what it shall be to all Eternity . And after some Words he answers ; And so who are come into the Bishop Christ , they are one Soul , they know the Hand of God , which the Soul lives in , which is the Power , and so knows it from Eternity to Eternity : And so ye Priests which do not discern the Soul and its State , to Eternity and from Eternity ; ye are not in the Mystery of the Gospel , which gives Liberty to it , neither have ye it — And you five Priests have shamed your selves that do not know the Soul from Eternity to Eternity ; and on this horrid Presumption , that they knew the State of Men's Souls from Eternity to Eternity . Rich. Hubberth passes this severe Sentence on his Opponent , Truth 's def . pag. 92. Thou art ordained of old for Condemnation , and for Perdition among the ungodly ones , and art a Reprobate . And p. 93. So here thou art cursed , and cast out eternally . Note , this was only for his asking What is original Sin ? And here he speaks of the several States of the Soul , as when the Soul is in Death , and when it liveth , and God hath Pleasure in it : By which Soul , he must needs understand the Soul of Man , for of the Souls of Men his Opponents did speak . Next G. VV. in his Truth defending the Quakers , hath gone as far as G. F. with respect to his Infallibility in knowing Men's Hearts . The Question being put to him in Truth def . p. 24. qu. 54. Do not you , G. W. blasphemously take to your self an Attribute of God , while you pretend ordinarily to know the Hearts of Men. And tell Mr. Townsend of Norwich , in the second Page of your Ishmael , That the Light of God is departed from his Conscience . He answers , I take no Attribute of God to my self , but what God hath given me , by whose Gift I witness that Promise fulfilled in me : ye shall discern between the righteous and the wicked , between him that serveth God , and him that serveth him not , Mal. 3. 18. This arrogant assuming of one of God's Attributes , of knowing Men's Hearts , being objected against him lately , in a printed Sheet , called , An Account from Colchester , &c. In another late printed Paper , signed by seven Quakers at Colchester , called , Some Account from Colchester , they expostulate the Case with them who made the Objection : Is it such an Error to believe or witness the fulfilling of this plain Promise , Mal. 3. 18. How do you then believe in Christ , in whom all the Promises of God are yea and amen ? Is the contrary good Doctrine for you ( our Acculers ) to hold , that ye or Christians shall not return , nor discern between the righteous and the wicked ? &c. Do you not thereby prove your selves blind , and in Vnbelief ? Note , This in Mal. 3. 18. or any other Place of Scripture proves not that any Men shall have one of God 's Attributes given them to know Men's Hearts ; which is no where promised , but Christ hath taught us to know Men by their Works and Fruits , and not by his giving them one of God's Attributes whereby to know Men's Hearts ; for if they had that , they should be as God himself , to know without regard to the Fruits : But that Place , Mal. 3. 18. seems to have a plain Reference to the Day of Judgment , wherein the Works of all Men , however secret , shall be made manifest , and yet not by Men's having one of God's Attributes given them even then . And as to G. VV's Argument for the necessity of this infallible discerning given to Ministers , otherwise Christ's Sheep may follow Strangers and be destroyed : This Consequence doth not follow ; for while they follow the Voice of Christ , that is , his Doctrine outwardly deLivered in the holy Scriptures , and inwardly set home and applied to their Hearts by the holy Spirit , they are safe ; and when they follow not that , but Men of false Pretences , who bring a contrary Doctrine , and yet say , they have the infallible Spirit , as the Followers of G.VV. and his Brethren do ; they are in great Danger of perishing , and though the true Sheep of Christ shall not finally be deceived , nor finally perish , yet they at times may be deceived , and have been deceived by false Teachers , and by none more than such false Teachers , who falsly pretend to the Spirit of Christ , and yet preach contrary to his Doctrine . But that the Quakers did not only pretend to extraordinary Inspirations of the Spirit , but to miraculous Operations I shall shew you out of G. F's G. M. p. 254. Some of them having asked the Question , VVhether your Baptizers cast out Devils , and drink any deadly thing , and it not hurt you ? And whether the House where you meet was ever shaken ? And where he did give the Holy Ghost to you ? The Opponent calls this an unlearned Question , to which G. F. replies , This is to shew that you are not Believers , nor in the Power that the Apostles was in . Note , By this it appears they lay claim to the same Power of working Miracles that the Apostles had , as to drink any deadly thing , and it not to hurt them , and that the House where they meet was shaken : I have both heard and seen , that some of the Quakers Bodies were shaken in their Meetings , but I never heard nor saw that the House where they met was shaken . Note , while I was giving my Proofs out of G. F. and G. W. their Books , concerning their high Pretences to an infallible discerning Men's Hearts ; a Quaker , called Samuel Miller , as I am informed , a Bricklayer , stood upon a Bench , and for a further Confirmation , said with a loud Voice , George , I had a Vision concerning thee twenty Years ago , that though thou didst preach the Gospel to others , thou thy self should be a Cast-away . This he gave to corroborate G. F's Pretense of his knowing the State of Men's Souls from Eternity to Eternity : But if his and their bare Affirmation must be received for Truth , without all external Evidence , that I am an Apostate , a Cast-away , what Man , howsoever innocent , can escape their uncharitable Censure ? Another Quaker , called Thomas Kent , stood up , and would have preached , telling the Auditory , He felt a Fire or Flame burn in his Breast , he had a Consciencious Concern upon him ; but the People forbidding him to preach , he cried out , The Quotations were false , but gave not the least Proof : I told them he has been disowned by the Quakers , and recorded out of the Unity these many Years , for his Drunkenness , and opposing G. Fox's Orders ; so after a short time he was silent . Proofs out of the Quakers Books on the second Head , concerning their Sinless Perfection . IT being objected against G. F. that he had said , He was as upright as Christ ▪ He answers , Th●se VVords were not so spoken by me , but that as he is , so are we in this present VVorld , that the Saints are made the Righteousness of God , that the Saints are one in the Father and the Son , that we shall be like him , 1 Joh. 3. 2. And that all teaching which is given forth by Christ , is to bring the Saints to Perfection , even to the measure of the Stature of the Fullness of Christ ; this the Scripture doth witness , and this I witness ; where Christ dwells , must he not speak in his Temple ? It having been said by one of G. F 's Opponents , They ( i.e. the Saints ) cannot be perfect here or hereafter in Equality , but only in Quality . G. F. answers , Christ makes no Distinction in his Words , but saith , Be ye perfect , even as your Heavenly Father is , and be ye merciful as he is , and as he is so are we , and that which is perfect and merciful , as he is perfect and merciful , is in Equality with the same thing , which is of God and from him . G. Whitehead , in Defence of this Passage , in Truth and In. p. 14. saith , Now where 's the Blasphemy pray ? Was it not Christ's own Doctrine ? Be ye perfect even as your Father which is in Heaven is perfect ; and Luke 16. 36. Be ye therefore merciful as your Father is merciful . Now what Distinction doth Christ make in these Words and Precepts , as in point of Purity , and where 's the Perfection in Quality granted then , and wherein must this Perfection consist ? Note , It was not Christ's Doctrine to be perfect in Equality with God's Perfection , for that were to command them to be God himself , and though Christ expresseth no Distinction , yet it is implied ; and whereas G. W. pleads for the Saint's Equality with God in point of Purity , he is still blasphemous ; the Saint's Perfection in Quality is not an essential Perfection , for what Holiness and Purity they now have , they formerly had not , but God's Perfection is essential to him , and so is his Purity , his Purity and Perfection is himself , and so is not the Saint's Perfection or Purity , therefore there is an infinite Distance betwixt God's Perfection , and all Creatures Perfection whatsoever . Again , G. M. p. 197. His Opponent having said , He sums up all in this , Be ye therefore perfect as your Heavenly Father is perfect , that is , in Quality not in Quantity . G. F. answers , He that is perfect is perfect , as his Heavenly Father is perfect , is perfect as he is perfect : If thou or any have an Ear to hear , let him hear , and lay away thy Qualities and Quantities , and take the Words as they are , and all that are come into Christ , are come into Life from the Dust and Ashes , and are spiritual Men. Note , This he spoke in Opposition to his Opponent his calling Man poor Dust and Ashes ; here he magnifies himself above Abraham , who called himself Dust and Ashes , and yet was come into Christ , and into his Life . The like arrogant Expression he hath in G. M. p. 299. Such as be Saints through the immortal Seed , are not Dust and Ashes , for the immortal Seed lives and abides and endures for ever . A Tittle of the Law is seen not to be broken , and this ( saith he ) is known in vs. VVho comes to the Kingdom of Heaven in them , 〈◊〉 to be perfect , yea , to a perfect Man , and that is above any Degree . Again , Are you not worse than Lawyers and Physicians , taking the Peoples Money , and yet cannot make them perfect Men ? G. M. p. 268. Note , By this reckoning , all the deceased Quakers were perfect with a sinless Perfection before their Decease , yea , and all they not deceased , by G. F's Doctrine above-quoted , for in all these Plates G. F. means a sinless Perfection . He blames his Opponent for saying , One that is in the Kingdom of Grace groaning for Adoption . ● And p. 218. G. M. He will not allow any that 's translated into the Kingdom , to have any Members to be mortified . He judges his Opponents for saying , That Pollution was in the Church , and saith , That the Church is without Spot , or VVrinkle , or Blemish , on any such thing , meaning surely the Quakers Church . But that the Quakers Church or Ministry , are not all such , who are without Spot , or Wrinkle , or Blemish , or any such thing . G. VV 's General Epistle ( which he calls , A Christian Epistle to Friends , &c. ) sufficiently sheweth , in p. 4. He chargeth it upon too many Professors of Truth ( viz. among the Quakers ) their Negligence and Vnfaithfulness to Truth in themselves , which hath caused a Decay of Love , and want of Charity towards others , and then instead of humbly waiting and depending upon the Lord , some have exaled themselves in a self-will self-conceit and affection to Preheminence in Judgment over others , until thereby Divisions and false Separations have been caused , and stirred up by them , to the great Grief of the Spirits of the upright : Such were never throughly subjected into true Humility , Mortification , true Self-denyal , or dying with Christ , &c. In that called G. Fox's Canons , or Orders ( so did all that Party of the Quakers call them that joined with John Story and John Wilkinson , two eminent Preachers of the Quakers , in opposing them ) published by G. F. about the Year 1669 , and signed or subscribed only by G. F. [ Pope-like indeed ] having this Title , Friend's Fellowship must be in the Spirit , and all Friends must know one another in the Spirit and Power of God. At the Number 9 we have the following Words ; And also all Men that hunt after Women , from Woman to Woman ; and also VVomen , whose Affections run sometimes after one Man , and soon after another , and so hold one another in Affection , and so draw out the Affection of one another ; and after a while leave one another , and go one from another , do the same thing ; these doings make more like Sodom than Saints , and is not of God's moving or joining . And in Number 10. And Notice be taken of all evil Speakers , Backbiters , and Slanderers , and foolish Talkers , and idle Jesters ; for all these corrupt good Manners . And in Number 11. All such as are Tale-carriers and Railers , whose VVork is to sow Dissention , are to be reproved and admonished . And in Number 12. And all such as go up and down to cheat by borrowing , and getting of Money of Friends in By-places , and have cheated several ; all such are to be stopped and judged ; as there is a VVoman , tall in her Person , freckled in her Face ; and also one John Harding , who are for Judgment and to be condemned . And in the Conclusion he sharply reproves them of the Quaker's Society , who sit nodding in a Meeting , for their Sleeping , and Sottishness , and Dullness ; and he saith , Therefore be careful and watchful , and let it be amended . And last of all he adds , Let this be read in all your Meetings . On this I noted , that these and other Faults he chargeth upon many of his Brethren , owned to be Quakers , evidently prove their visible Church and Society are not such a Church of Christ , which he saith , is without Spot or VVrinkle , as above-quoted ; and that , as a People , they are far from that sinless Perfection they commonly boast of , on which account they are not known , as a People to pray in their publick Meetings for Pardon of Sin ; and yet , where such Faults are , were they sincere , they would both confess and ask Pardon of God for their Sins . I noted also , that according to this Injunction , these Orders on Canons of G. F. are duly read in their quarterly Meetings , both here in Europe , and also in America , whereof I have been an Eye and Ear Witness . But as he hath not in all his Canons enjoined the reading the holy Scriptures , nor any Part of them in their Meetings ; so I said , I never heard any Part of Scripture read in any of their publick Meetings , either for Worship or Discipline ; and they cast great Blame on me , for my reading some Texts of Scripture in our Meetings at Turners-Hall . But let it be further noted , that seeing G. F. and G. VV. have so strongly affirmed , That the Quakers can give an infallible Character of Men , to know who are Saints or Devils , without ever speaking a Word ; what need had G. F. in his Canons , to give such a Description of some , by Name and Face , whereby to know them to be Cheats ? Surely if they had such an infallible discerning as they pretend , they need not to have such outward Characters of Deceivers . Note , Were not some of these above-mentioned , Members of the Quaker's Church ? and are not such Evils as he has mentioned , that were among them , Spots , and Blemishes , and Sins ? Yea , G. VV. doth own , in his Voice of VVisdom , p. 17. before that State of Freedom [ from Sin ] be witnessed , There is a Time of Pain in Travel , and of suffering in Temptations and Tryals . Note , do none of these belong to the Church , who yet have not arrived to a sinless Perfection , but are in that Time of Travel ? But what if they die in that Time of Travel , before a sinless Perfection be attained ? G. VV. has passed a nibst severe and uncharitable Censure on them . Voice of VVisdom , p. 42 , 43. This sinless Perfection ( for that 's the true State of the Question ) all must come to witness who ever come to be saved , for there is no unclean thing must enter into Christ's Kingdom , therefore People must either expect Freedom from Sin in this Life , or never . Note , Thus he has passed a most uncharitable and cruel Sentence , nor only upon many who were in a sincere Travel towards Perfection , and yet have not attained to a sinless Perfection before their Decease , but also upon his deceased Brethren , many of whom deceased ( as I judge he must confess ) while they were in the Travel towards it , for Quakers commonly are not longer lived than other Men , they die at all Ages , young as well as old , and many die that are but Novices in their Way : And certainly G. Fox , and E. Burr . Fr. Hougel , Rich. Hubb . and some of their greatest Saints lived in great Ignorance , Error , and Unbelief , in divers great Fundamentals of the Christian Faith , and in great Uncharitableness towards such as differed from them , and remained in these Sins to their dying Day ; shall we therefore be so uncharitable to them , as G. Ws Doctrine is , to conclude they are all damned , and parished eternally ? God forbid , we will be more charitable to them than his Doctrine alloweth . But then again , in Contradiction , not only to G. F. but , himself , he pleads in his Voice of Wisdom , That the Believers Works are perfect , and God hath wrought all their VVorks in them , citing Isa . 26. 12. So these VVorks of God , which true Believers witness , are perfect , and the Believers have ceased from their own VVorks , which were imperfect , and are come into God's VVorks which are perfect . But then what saith he concerning them who are in the Travel towards Perfection ? Are not they Believers ; Have they no Faith ? Thus their Confusion is evident . They do not consider , that though the Work of Faith , Labour of Love , and Patience of Hope in Believers are the Works of God , yet they are also the Works of those Men , in whom they are wrought ; it 's they who believe , who love and hope by God's Operation or working in them , and therefore they being imperfect , though God is a perfect Being and Agent , their Faith , Love and Hope are imperfect , it being the Property of all Effects to be according to the weaker and more imperfect Causes , according to that true Maxim , Bonum ex integra causa , malum ex quolibet defectu , a perfect Effect must have all its Causes perfect . But whatever Charity we may suppose they may have for their deceased Brethren , they have little or none for any such who do not believe to the Hight of their Doctrine of a sinless Perfection before Death ; their Doctrine obligeth them to judge , that none of other Societies are saved , because they do not believe the Quakers Doctrine of Perfection before they die , the contrary of which , they call the Doctrine of Devils , the which , if any die , and do not renounce before their Decease , by the Quakers Principle , they cannot be saved . But some of them now begin to go into the same Road with others of other Professions , and after a large Circumference , wherein they have far departed from them who say , That the Souls of Believers are at the instant of Death made perfect in Holiness ; yet return and say the same thing concerning their imperfect Brethren who are deceased , and yet before their Decease , arrived not to a sinless Perfection ; which , if it may be allowed to imperfect Quakers , may be as well allowed to others , sineere Travellers towards Perfection , many of whom , no doubt , have arrived to greater Perfection before their Decease , than any among the Quakers Worthies , of whose Perfection they so much boast , who lived in great Error and Unbelief in the great Fundamentals of Christianity , and Uncharitableness towards others , and of whose Repentance for the same we never heard any Account . Again , G. F. in his G. M. p. 251. in Defence of his and his Brethrens sinless Perfection , thus answers to that in Eccles . 7. 20. There is not a just Man upon the Earth which doth good and sinneth not . This just , this wise Man upon the Earth , which doth good and sinneth not , that was the Estate of the Law , which Christ is the End of , who is a greater than Solomon , who is the just , and Righteousness it self , and makes Men free from Sin. Note , that G. F. in Contradiction to his own Gloss , in the same Page , to prove a sinless Perfection , brings the Examples of Job and David , both which were long before Christ came ; and to prove David's sinless Perfection , he brings David's Words ; and David said , He had seen the End of all Perfection . Is not this a rare Proof for a sinless Perfection ? But if G. F. did not mean Christ without , but Christ within , to be the End of the Law : As this is a false Gloss on Paul's Words , so that imports , that Solomon was not come to the Light within him , which G. F. calls Christ within ; but how then could Solomon pen such Books of the Scripture , which the Quakers confess to have been writ by Divine Inspiration , if Solomon had not come to the Light within him ? But let us hear another as nonsensical Gloss of G. VV. on the same Place , Voice of VVisd . p. 18. Eccles . 7. 20. Ans . The Conversation of the Saints is in Heaven , Eph. 2. 6. Philip. 3. 20. And they are redeemed from the Earth and from the Vanity , where Solomon saw all things in the Days of his Vanity , in which all were Sinners . Note , Is this any Proof , that the Saints , such as Paul , who writ these Words , were not real Men upon Earth ? And is not G. W. a Man upon Earth so long as he eats , drinks , sleeps , & c ? Thus we see how they pervert the Scriptures to prove their sinless Perfection ; for if G. W. will own he is one of these just Men on Earth , that Solomon writes of , he must confess himself to be a Sinner , if he will not own himself to be a just Man upon the Earth , yet he must allow his Body to be upon Earth , unless he will say , our Sight deceives us when we see him in the Streets , and then either his Body is no Part of him , or if it be , it hath Sin , and consequently , he also hath Sin , if he will own his Body to be a Part of him . But let us yet again hear another nonsensical Gloss of G. F. to maintain his and his Brethrens sinless Perfection on the Words of James , In many things we offend all , G. M. p 309. Mark , saith G. F. In the many things we offend all , but we are come to the one thing , Christ Jesus , the End of the many things , and in him there is no Sin , and who is in him sins not , who put an End to the many things that must end and change . Thus we see his and his Brethrens Presumption , who plainly declare they were got beyond James , and all the Faithful to whom he wrote those Words ; and he chargeth both James and all the Faithful , to whom he wrote all these Words , with a horrid Falshood , that they were not come to the one thing , to wit , to Jesus Christ : And if none are come to Christ or in Christ , but who are perfect with a sinless Perfection , as G. W. doth here argue , then young Believers and Converts , who are travelling towards Perfection , are not in Christ , nor come to Christ , because they have not that sinless Perfection , which is both a most false and most comfortless Doctrine , and injurious to all young Christian Converts at least , and may be thought , by young Quaker Converts , injurious to them also . Note , while the Proofs were reading out of the Quakers Books for their sinless Perfection , a Quaker ( supposed to be John Whiting ) said , George , if Men are not perfect before Death , when are they made perfect ? It must be either before Death or after Death . I answered , In the instant of Death , and that is neither before Death nor after Death ; as if one should ask , when did Peter and other deceased Saints put off the earthly Tabernacle , whether before Death or after Death ? The Answer is , neither before nor after , but at the Instant of Death . But let us hear yet somewhat more of G. F's great Conceit of his and his Brethrens Perfection , even in Equality with God himself . Abrief Discovery of the Threefold State of Antichrist , printed 1653. he being charged with saying , That he was as upright as Christ ; he answers , these Words were not spoken by me , but that , as he is , so are we in this World , that the Saints are made the Righteousness of God , that the Saints are one in the Father and the Son , that we shall be like him , and that all teaching which is given forth by Jesus Christ , is to bring up the Hearers to Perfection , even to the Measure , Stature , and Fullness of Christ , this the Scripture witnesseth , and I witness fulfilled in me . Note , this is more than what is in Saul's Errand above-quoted , for there the Words of Scripture are kept to , that mention the Measure of the Stature of the Fullness , but here it 's far beyond what is written in Scripture , that he was come , not only to the Measure , but to the Stature and Fullness of Christ , and what is this but to be equal with Christ and God ? Saul's Errand , p. 13. G. F. He that is perfectly holy , is perfectly just ; where this is revealed , there needs no Addition , for the Man of God is perfect . This will yet more fully appear by the following Quotations . In Truth def . by G. Fox and R. Hubb . page 65. a Query being proposed by the Opponent , Who is like to be the Man thou speakest of , he that saith he is equal with God and Christ . or he that preacheth Christ the Head ? The Answer is , Here in this Question thou openly shew●d by self , 〈…〉 the Mind the Apostles had , for ( saith he ) I would the some Mind were in you , that was also in Christ Jesus , who thought it no Robbery to be equal with God , and yet made himself of no Reputation , Philip. 2. 5. And here thou hast shewed thy self , that thou hast neither the Mind of Christ nor his Apostles , but art an Antichrist , and an Enemy against them that witness these things , which the Apostle , said , I would that ye were of the same Mind . And again the Apostle saith , Our Fellowship is with the Father and the Son , 1 Joh. 1. 3. Again , in his G. Mystery , p. 248. he quotes , ( but very lamely and corruptly ) . C. Wade , in his Book Quakery Slain , He denies the Son of God to be revealed in Man ▪ only by Adoption , and cries against Equality with the Father . Here before I give you G. F's Answer , I shall give you C. Wade's Words , as they stand in his Book , to which he answers . C. Wade's Words in his Quakery slain , are these , p. 23. G. Fox , in the 8. pag. of Saul's Errand , affirmeth , That he that hath the same Spirit that raised up Jesus Christ , is equal with God , and the Saints have the same Spirit in Measure , for God's Spirit is but one . And G. Fox saith , in pag. 11. That he is a Saint . Thus he would again prove , That he , a poor wicked Creature , is equal with God the Creator , and if so , then G. Fox is the Creator of G. Fox , and the whole World ; and he intimately claimeth Christ's Equality with God , by his perverted citing of Philip. 2. 6 , 7. Now in Opposition to G. F's affirming , He was equal with God , C. Wade , in his pag 24. saith . The Scripture saith , that even the Saints themselves are not God's Sons otherwise but by Adoption only by Christ ( note that you Quakers ) not as being Christ , as you foolishly fancy but by Christ , for it 's written , Having predestinated us unto the Adoption of Children by Jesus Christ , Eph. 1. 5. See this confirmed , Gal. 4. 5. Rom. 8. 23. and Creature adopted Sons cannot be equal with their Heavenly uncreated Father , who vouchsafeth by free Grace , by and in his Son Christ , to adopt them to be his Sons in Acceptation only : Neither can any Creature adopted Sons , be equal with God's only begotten Son , the Creator of all adopted Sons , and all other things , both in Heaven and in Earth also . This is the true and full Quotation out of C. Wade his Quakery slain . In Opposition to which sound Doctrine of C. Wade , G. Fox thus answers . Ans . And that is contrary to the Apostle , who had the Son of God revealed in him , and the Assembly of Divines gave forth a Catechism , which , Children , old and young , was to learn , and said . The Holy Ghost and Son was equal in Substance and Power and Glory with the Father : What ? Then all that have the Son and the Holy Ghost , hath that which is equal in Power and Glory with the Father . In this thou hast not only judged thy self , but all the Assembly of Divines at Westminster , 1649. Note , G. Fox here doth not quote the Page of C. Wade's Book , as frequently he doth not throughout his G. Myst , give his Opponents Pages of their Books , which it seems was in Design , that his unfair Quotations might not be so easily found out . Now observe , whereas G. F. brings C. Wade , crying against Equality with the Father , we see by the Quotation given , what Equality with the Father C. VVade cries against , to wit , not the Equality of Christ , the only begotten of God , with the Father , for that he expresly affirms by saying , That Christ , God's only begotten Son , is the Creator of all things ; but the Equality that C. Wade cryed against , was the Equality of G. Fox , and Creature adopted Sons with the Father , and for his so saying , G. Fox makes him to have contradicted the Apostle , and also the Assembly of Divines at Westminster , and judged both himself and them . This I think so evident a Proof , that G. F. thought himself equal with the Father , that neither G. W. nor Jos . Wyeth , nor any of their Brethren , with all their little Craft and Sophistry , can clear this Passage from that down-right Blasphemy , That G. F. was equal with God , for neither the Assembly of Divines at Westminster , nor C. W. deny the Equality of the Son and of the Holy Ghost , for G. Fox grants they owned it ; but the Equality which C. Wade cryed against , was the Equality of G. F. or any of the Saints with the Father . But here we find the Strength of G. Fox's Logick , The Son and Holy Ghost are equal with the Father , therefore G. F. is equal with the Father , the Proof of which Consequence must be one of these two following Assertions ; the one is , That G. Fox thought himself to be the Son of God , or such a Son as was equal with the Father ; the other is , That because the Son of God was revealed in G. Fox ( as he thought ) that therefore G. Fox was equal with the Father . As to the first of these Assertions , as it is utterly false , that G. Fox was the Son of God , to wit , the only begotten Son of God , the Word made Flesh , so the other is utterly a false Consequence , that because the Son of God was revealed in him , that therefore he was equal with the Father ; but surely , if the Son of God had been revealed in him , that Revelation would have taught him not to utter such horrid Blasphemy . But that C. Wade did not deny , but own as much as the Scripture warranteth , That God the Father , as also Christ the Son , were manifested or revealed in the Saints : I shall quote a Passage in his Book , being originally the Words of one T. Moor , that wrote against the Quakers , whom J. Nailer had charged , That he would exclude God and Christ out of the World , and that he should no more dwell in his People till Doomsday : In Opposition to which C. Wade quotes the following saying of T. Moor , which he approves , pag. 23. of Quakery slain , That the Majesty of God , whose Throne is in Heaven , is in his Inspections , Influences , and Operation every where ; and in his gracious and spiritual Presence , and manifested Nighness in and through his Son , dwelling in Sion , even in the Hearts and Societies of his People . Now let us hear what Jos . Wyeth and G. Whitehead say in Defence of that blasphemous Passage above-mentioned , quoted from Saul's Errand to Damascus , p. 8. He that hath the same Spirit that raised up Jesus from the dead , is equal with God. Jos . Wyeth doth plainly justifie it by the like false Consequence as G. Fox made ; he saith , For when Men are guided by the Holy Spirit , they are certainly guided by God , for the Father , Son , and Holy Spirit , are one God , and therefore equal , and that which is equal , as G. Fox ( he saith ) often expresseth it . But doth it therefore follow , that because the Father , the Son , and the Holy Ghost are equal , that therefore he that hath either the Son or the Holy Ghost , is equal , either with the Son , or Holy Ghost , or with the Father ? yet this is Jos . Wyeth's blasphemous Consequence , to justifie G. F's Blasphemy . But G. W. hath found two other Ways to defend the above-said Blasphemy of G. F. in the Supplement to the Switch , he saith , p. 528. And if any among us have writ of them who are perfect in Christ Jesus , being led by his Spirrt , as in that Sense equal . I understand equal only as like unto God , or in Vnion with him , being united unto him by his Spirit , as he that is joyned to the Lord is one Spirit . Note first , The Word Equal , no where that I know , either in Scripture , or other Books , or common Speech in any Language , signifieth only as like , therefore this is a meer Force put upon the Word , and a strained Sense : But Secondly , That could not be the Sense intended by G. Fox , because , as I have above shewed in a former Quotation , he proves that he is equal with God the Father , because the Son and Holy Ghost are equal with the Father . Now will G. W. say , That the Equality betwixt the Son and the Holy Ghost and the Father , is only an Equality of Likeness , as to say , the Son and the Holy Ghost are only like the Father , but are not really equal with the Father : This was the Arian Heresie , that the Son was like the Father , but not equal or of the same Substance with the Father ; they said he was Homoiusios , but not Homouisios . But he hath yet another String to his Bow , in his Truth and Innocency , pag. 10. Therefore the Words [ He that hath ] in the said Instance , should be left out , being contrary to G. F 's and our Principle , and to his own very Words and Confession a little before in the same Book , quoting Saul's Errand , p. 5 , 6. where G. F. saith , It was not so spoken , as G. Fox was equal with God , but the Father and the Son is one . But the Fallacy lyeth here , he did not say , George Fox , to wit , the Name George Fox , or the outward visible Body that bears that Carnal Name , as he somewhere calls it , but the new Name that he hath , that is the He that is equal with God , because that He is the Son , and as to what G. W. saith of Union with God , that G. F. did not mean Union by Faith and Love , but a personal Union , appears from G. M. p. 100. He brings in his Opponent saying , God dwells not in the Saints as a Personal Union . In Opposition to which he answers , How comes the Saints then to eat of his Flesh , and to be of his Flesh and Bone : Note , it should be by a personal Union ? And God dwelling in them , and have Vnity with the Son and the Father , and to be of his Body which is the Church , and Christ the Head : Yea , he blames his Opponent , G. M. p. 258. for saying , To say that God is substantially in Man , as essentially one with him , can be no other but the Man of Sin. But whereas G. W. saith , He that hath should be left out ; pray who put them in ? That they were G. Fox's Words , the Book called Saul's Errand , affirms , if this Liberty be allowed to transpose , leave out , and add Words in a Sentence , nothing so vile and blasphemous or atheistical , but may be justified by G. W. who hath used all these three Methods to defend his and his Brethrens vile Errors . But let us hear one Passage more of G. F. out of G. Myst . p. 299. to let us know what Conceit he had of himself as being more than a Creature ; he tells , That one had raised a grievous Lye against G. F. and said , he said he was Christ , p. 298. to the End. This Man having so charged him , and having told him he had Witness to prove it , G. F. told him , He was a Judas , and he went away , and after a while hanged himself , and Christ in the Male and in the Female , if he speak he was Christ the Seed , and the Seed was Christ , but he did not speak it as a Creature . Note , he grants he spoke the Words , That he was Christ , but he did not speak it as a Creature , therefore he thought he was something more than a Creature , the Seed in him spoke it , which was Christ , and that was not a Creature , but what Seed was in him , or in other Quakers , that was not a Creature ; I cannot find out any other in his Writings , but his Soul or invisible Part that he makes to be Christ and a Part of God , as will afterwards appear on a distinct Head. But he has yet another Defence to save the like blasphemous Saying of F. Howgel , They that have the Spirit of God are equal with God in Nature , but not in Stature . It having been objected against the Quakers , that some of them have said , They that have the Spirit of God are equal with God : To this F. Howgel answers , after some foregoing Words , He that is born from above is the Son of God , and he said , I and my Father are one ; and where the Son is revealed and speaks , the Father speaks in him ; and dwells in him , and he in thy Father ; there is Equality in Nature though not in Stature . Here it is a plain Case that F. H. places this Equality in Nature but not in Stature , betwixt him that has the Spirit of God , who is born from above , and God himself ; for to place it betwixt Christ , as he was the Son of God before all Ages , and God the Father , were to say , That the Son is equal with the Father in Nature but not in Stature , which has a twofold Error in it ; first , To make a Distinction betwixt God's Nature and Stature . Secondly , Suppose that Distinction , That the Son is equal to the Father in Nature but not in Stature , both which are most gross and blasphemous , and no less gross and blasphemous it is to affirm , That the Saints are equal with God in Nature but not in Stature . Now let us hear G. VVhitehead's Defence , Truth and Inn. p. 10. The Equality in Nature ( objected ) relates to the Divine Nature which the Child of God partakes of in Measure , though not in Stature , relates to the Child , that Divine Nature is one and unchangeable , but our participating of it , and Growth in it is gradual , until all ( i. e. Christ's whole Church and Body ) come into the Measure of the Stature of the Fullness of Christ . But doth all this Saying of G. VV. prove that the Children of God are equal with God , either in Nature or Stature ? The Saints are said in Scripture to be Partakers of the Holy Ghost , are they therefore equal to the Holy Ghost ? Which yet is the Way of G. VV's reasoning ; the Equality in Nature he says , relates to the Divine Nature , but who is it that is equal to God in the Divine Nature , but not in Stature ? was it the Son or Holy Chost that is equal to God in the Divine Nature but not in Stature ? Nay , therefore it must be the Saints or Believers ; here a Proposition is framed , They that have the Spirit of God are equal with God ; and then this Distinction is given ; They are equal in Nature , but not in Stature : This Proposition hath for its Subject They , i. e. the Saints or Children of God. In all Propositions , all the Parts of the Predicate belong to one and the same Subject , the which Parts are equal in Nature but not in Stature : But it is an unaccountable Liberty that G. VV. takes in his Way of defending these Blasphemies , not only to change the Signification of Words from all common Use , but the unalterable Rules of right Reason , as in the present Case ; like as if one should say , G. VVhitehead is equal to A. B. in Nature but not in Stature ; Nature relates to G. W. but not in Stature relates to another ; but who is this other who can tell ? Or as if one should say G. W. is a Man , but not honest , Man relates to G. Whitehead , but not honest relates to another . It is a real Shame that such pittiful Sophistry should be used by G. W. to defend his and his Brethrens vile Errors and Blasphemies , whereby he makes himself guilty of them , and all to save his and their pretended Infallibility : It were much more Manly , as well as Christian , fairly to acknowledge and retract those most erronious Passages , and own their Fallibility and Error , and be contented to be lifted among fallible Men , for humanum est errare , labi , decipi ; and not only so , but to be greatly humbled for the Presumption , that being Men , they should equal themselves to God. But the general Conceit of their sinless Perfection , as they are a Body of People , is such , that both G. W. and Jos . Wyeth doth justifie W. P's objecting to the Church of England , their praying from seven to seventy , Lord be merciful to us miserable Sinners . G. VV. saith , in Truth and In. p. 15. Alas poor Sinners ! Is not a Sign of Laughter at ●hem , but rather of Lamentation and Pity over their miserable Estate , who are always 〈◊〉 but not forsaking their Sins . The like Answer doth J. VVyeth give in the Note , Is not this a plain Evidence of the great Pride that is among the Quakers concerning their sinless Perfection ; As a Body of People , and their great Uncharitableness towards , not only the Church of England , but all others called Christians throughout the whole World ; yea , all Christians in all Ages , and the universal Church of God , both under the old and new Testament , who always used Confession of Sin , and prayed for Forgiveness of Sin ? find as Christ taught his Disciples to pray daily for their daily Bread ; so to pray daily for Forgiveness of Sins : So under the old Testament there were daily Offerings for Sin , and the High Priest , however so holy , yet offered both for his own Sins , and the Sins of the People : Doth it therefore follow that their Confessions and Offerings were hypocritical ? But doth not G. VV. know , that as there is a gradual going unto Perfection , so there is a gradual forsaking of Sin , and a putting off the old Man with his Deeds ? Must not they who feel themselves wounded with Sin , seek for a Cure ? And should not the diseased come daily to the Phisician till they be cured ? And as to the Quakers Uncharitableness , and G. VV's especially , towards all in the Church of England , whom he chargeth without Exception , that they are still confessing but not forsaking their Sins . How can he more prove this Charge against them than his own Society or himself ? Many , both in the Church of England , and other Protestants , can compare with the best of the Quakers for Holiness of Life , and exceed them in many Virtues , especially in Humility . But do no not they better who confess their Sins , and yet through humane Frailty , find that they relapse into some Sins , than such proud Pharisees among the Quakers , who neither confess nor forsake their Sins ? such as their sinful Ignorance and Errors in the great Fundamentals of the Christian Faith , their too high Esteem of themselves , and Uncharitableness towards others , calling all others but themselves , The World and Idolaters , and their Worship Idolatry : And if any , formerly among them , come to a more sober Mind , and to a more sound Understanding and Faith in Christian Doctrine , and are more charitable towards others : They call them Apostates , as they do call me and others , whom God in his great Mercy has of late recovered from the Errors and Uncharitableness that were and are among them ; so that for owning the Protestant Churches , and that we can join in the Worship of God with them , we are rendred Apostates by G. VV ▪ and his Brethren in their printed Pamphlets against us : But if we be Apostates for this , then by G. VV's and his Brethrens Sentence , all the Protestant Churches are Infidels and Idolaters . But if the Church of the Quakers be a sinless Church , that need not to confess their Sins , nor pray for Forgiveness of their Sins , how doth this agree with the large . Acknowledgments that G. VV. has made in his Christian Epistle to the People called Quakers , of so many things amiss among them , as above quoted ? Either such faulty Persons are owned Members of their Church , or they are not ; if they are not , why do not they disown them , and excommunicate them , or declare them to be none of them . If they own them to be of their Church , then their Church is not without Sp●t , Wrinkle , or Blemish ; and consequently , not the Church of Christ by G. F's Doctrine ? If it be said . The Tares cannot be discerned oft times from the Wheat then where 's their Spirit of discerning , whereby they can know who are Saints or Devils without speaking ever a Word ? Surely if they have such a Spirit of discerning , their Sin is great to suffer such a Mixture among them as G. W. complains of in his Christian Epistle especially now that they reckon E●oth's Prophecy is fullfilled in them : They , i. e. the Quakers , are the ten thousand of his Saints in whom the Lord is come to execute Judgment upon all . Why do they not begin at home , and first cleanse their own House , and purge out the old Leaven from among them ? How is it that diverse unclean Persons , even of their Ministry , have been owned to preach among them while living in secret Uncleanness , diverse of whose Names they know I can produce ? Why did they not discern them , seeing they have ( as they pretend ) an infallible discerning of Mens Hearts ? Or if they did discern them , why did they not discover them , and get them cast out of the Camp ? As to the Instance above given of the daily Sacrifices for Sin , which were offered under the Law : If it be replyed , That they grant the Law made nothing perfect , but now a sinless Perfection is brought in by the Gospel . I ask them what became of them all of that ancient Church ( who daily confessed their Sins , and prayed for Forgiveness ) when they died ? Did they die in their Sins ! Or where were they cleansed from their Sins after Death ? Or did they all perish , according to G. W's manner of reasoning against his Opponents in his Voice of Wisdom above quoted . As to that Place in Scripture , The Law made nothing perfect ; and other the like Places ; they are to be understood , first , Comparatively , the Gospel State under the New Testament , as to the general , is a State of more Purity and greater Perfection than the State of the People under the Law. Secondly , The ceremonial Part of the Law , as Circumcision and the Sacrifices , did neither in whole , nor in part , give them the Remission of their Sins , but were Types of Christ , that alone Sacrifice , by which Remission of Sin and Sanctification both then was and now is obtained . It is on the Conceit that the Quakers have of their sinless Perfection , especially their Ministers , that they are not known to pray for the Forgiveness of their Sins , in their publick Meetings , which gave occasion to that Question in Truth defending the Quak. by G. VV. p. 8. Q. 11. Do not you think it needless to pray for the Pardon of your Sins ? To this G. Whitehead replies , We have prayed for the Pardon of our Sins , and the Lord , who heard our Prayers , hath pardoned and remitted our Sins , by the Power of the World to come , which we have tasted , and do taste of , as many witness . But of late some of them have got a way to pray in the third Person plural in their Meetings , as I have observed ; as thus , If any here have sinned against thee , give them Repentance and Forgiveness : Or thus , Pardon them that have sinned against thee : Thus I have heard John Field pray , but I never heard him , or any here in England , to the best of my . Remembrance , pray in the first Person plural , Forgive us our Sins ; though Daniel , and the best of the holy Men recorded in Scripture , prayed , Forgive us our Sins . A Quaker said , George , dost not thou know , that it is the manner of Friends , if any have done amiss , to deal with them , and get them to confess and ask Forgiveness : I said , that was but as to particular Persons , and private Offences ; but that was no Proof as to their general Confession and praying for Pardon of Sin. Another Quaker stood on a Bench , and began to read a Passage out of a Book of mine , called , The Way cast up , printed in the Year 1677 , containing some Words of Prayer , which I said I had heard , or Words to that effect , used in our Meetings , both to God the Father , in the Name of Jesus Christ , and also to Jesus Christ , naming him by the Name Son of David . This Passage that Quaker brought ( his Name , as I am informed , is John Whiting ) to prove , that the Quakers prayed for Forgiveness of Sin , for I was then a Quaker , but what he read out of my Book not being well heard , he was desired to hand the Book to the Minister that stood by me , and read the Quotations ; which was done , and the whole Passage , containing a Prayer , was read , which is this ; VVay cast up , p , 121. Son of David have mercy on us . O thou blessed Lord Jesus , that wert crucified and died for our Sins , and shed thy precious Blood for us ; be gracious unto us . Thou that in the Days of thy Flesh , wert tempted of Satan , afflicted , bore our Sins on the Cross , felt our Infirmities , and wert touched with them . O thou our merciful High Priest , whose tender Bowls of Compassion , are not more straitned , since thy Ascension , but rather more enlarged , and whose Love and Kindness is the same towards thy Servants in our Days , as it was of old , help us and strengthen us , and by the Power of thy divine Life and Spirit ; raise us up over all Tentations , and indue us with a Measure of the same Patience and Resignation that dwelt so fully in thee , and which thou didst so abundantly manifest in all thy Sufferings in the Days of thy Flesh . Thou art the same that thou wert , thy Heart is the same towards thy Servants , as when thou wert outwardly present with them in the Flesh . Thou art our Advocate and Mediator in Heaven with the Father ▪ Our merciful High Priest , who is not untouched with the feeling of our Infirmities . Thou , even thou , blessed Jesus , thou knowest our most secret Desires and Breathings , which we offer up unto thee , in the Enablings of the blessed Life and Spirit , that thou mayest present them unto thy Father and our Father , that in thee we may be accepted , and our Services also ; and for thy sake our Defects and short Comings , our Sins and Transgressions that we have committed , may be forgiven us . The Prayer being read , divers Ministers and others said it was a good Prayer , but they never heard that any such Prayer was used in any of the Quakers Meetings : A Quaker , called Daniel Philips , standing by near where I stood , said that Book was approved by the second Days Meeting at London , which was a great Untruth : I told how I wrote that Book in Scotland , and from Scotland sent it to a Correspondent in Holland , who printed it there ; and when it came over to London , in the Year 1678. it met with great Opposition from divers of the Preachers of the Quakers at London [ as Stephen Crisp , William Shewen , William Mede , and , Samuel Newton ] and one of the chief things they blamed in my Book , was this very Prayer , and especially that Part of it , Jesus Son of David have mercy on us : Some of them said it was half Popery ; for though G. K. would not pray to Mary the Mother of Jesus , as the Papists do , yet he was for praying to the Son of Mary : Others said it was Common Prayer : A larger Account of things relating to the Opposition I met with from the Quakers for that Prayer , and some other things in that Book , ye will find in the late Book called A Defence of the Snake , in that called A Collection , from p. 16. to 38. I further shewed , that what I had delivered in that Book , and others of my Books in former times when I was reckoned in Unity with the Quakers , did plainly evidence that I held the Faith of the Fundamentals of Christianity with all true Christians , though in some lesser Matters I was biassed and misled by them into divers Errors , particularly in rejecting the Sacraments of Baptism and the Supper ; which I have since retracted ; and for my holding the fundamental Doctrines of the Christian Faith , as appears by that Book , and other Books of mine . All the Time of my Quakerism , a Quaker in Ponsylvania , who was a Justice of Peace [ his Name was Arthur Cook ] said unto me , George , thou never was a right Quaker all thy Days ? but an old rotten Presbyterian . The reading of that Passage in my Book , containing the Prayer aforesaid , which the Quaker brought to make against me , had a far contrary Effect to what he intended ; for many ( some Ministers ; and others ) present said , This makes for G. K. not against him ; let the Quakers bring any such Passage out of their Books , to prove they were of that Faith with him . Some of the Quakers that objected against that Prayer in my Book , asked me , in one of the Meetings that were appointed to hear the Objections against my Book , and my Answers , Where did I ever hear any English Friend of the Ministry pray after that manner ? Possibly , said they , some Scots Friends , who were thy Proselytes , thou hast heard to pray so : I confess they guessed right , they were some Scots Friends whom I had heard to pray so , and so I had prayed ; and being at a stand to instance any English Friend that I had heard so pray , W. Penn told them , he had so prayed , and that not long ago , but he said , It was in private : G. W. said , Let the Scripture decide it ; whereupon he calls for the Bible , and reads in 1 Cor. 1. 2. What say ye to this Friends , said G. W ? Ye see that Paul did approve the Corinthians that called upon the Name of the Lord Jesus Christ : Their Answer was , Paul was dark and ignorant in that thing , as G. K. is , for our Parts we know better . Here note the Fallacy both of G. W. and W. P. who for all this seemingly owning Faith in the Man Christ Jesus , by confessing they were to pray to him , yet in their printed Books have opposed that Faith without any Retractation . Proofs on the third Head. First , That the Scriptures , according to the Dictates of their greatest Teachers , are not the Word of God. THat the Scripture is not the written Word , see G. Myst . p. 68 , 75. The Word not contained in Scripture , p. 232. The Scriptures not the Word of Reconciliation , but Christ , p. 186. The Scriptures not infallible nor divine , but humane , p. 302. He chargeth C. Wade with Blasphemy , for affirming the Scriptures are the Word of God , G. M. p. 246 , 247. Thus the Church of England , and all Protestants are guilty of Blasphemy by his Assertion . Note , This Controversie betwixt all true Protestants and the Quakers , whether the Scriptures are the Word of God ( which the Quakers have formerly most earnestly denyed , and fiercely disputed against , though some now begin to acknowledge it , and yet they are still the same infallible Men ) is not a meer Strife of Words , but a most material and important Controversie , for when many Places of Scripture are brought to prove that God's Spirit doth inwardly teach us , by means of the Word , and that Faith comes by the Word of God outwardly heard or read , that we are born of the Word , and sanctified by it , and all spiritual Effects that are attributed in Scripture to God , Christ , and the Spirit , as the principal Agent , and to the Word as instrumental , they will not allow of any instrumental external Word , but makes the Word to be the Spirit , to be Christ and God , which is in effect to render them of no use to us at all seeing by denying them to be the Word they deny them also to be the external Means or Medium , whereby the Spirit teaceth us by his inward Operation in our Hearts , and works any saving Knowledge and Faith in us , and this also they have denyed , viz. that the Scriptures are the Means or Medium . But that the Scriptures are the Word of God , and the Word most frequently so called in Scripture , is clear from abundant Places ; to wit , the external Doctrine contained in the Scriptures . Our Gospel came unto you , said Paul to the Thessalonians , 1 Thess . 1. 5. not in Word only ; by Word here is meant Doctrine , Isaiah 28. 13. The Word of the Lord was unto them Precept upon Precept , Line upon Line : Here the Precepts and written Lines of the Prophets are called the Word of the Lord ; and Joh. 15. 25. there we find the Word written , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , i. e. the written Word , which was a short Sentence written in one of the Psalms ; but G. F. denyeth them to be the written Word , G. M. p. 68 , 319. When Paul bid Timothy preach the Word , it cannot be justly thought that he would have him only preach the inward Word , or the essential Word or Light within ; but by the Word he meant the whole Doctrine of the Gospel . The Quakers but trifle when they argue the Scriptures are Words , and it is a Lye to call Words the Word , which is not a Lye , but a common Speech used by themselves , who call an Epistle a Letter , that yet contains many Letters : And they do no less trifle when they argue , to say the Scripture is the Word , is to say the Scripture is Christ , as if the Name Word did only belong to Christ , whereas the Name Word , as well as the Name Light , is given both to Christ and other things : Christ said to the Disciples , Ye are the Light of the World ; and so said Christ of himself , doth it therefore follow that they were Christ ? They say they call the Scriptures what they call themselves , A Treatise , but not the Word , quoting Acts 1. the former Treatise , but in the Greek it is Word ; the same in Joh. 1. 1. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , &c. the former Word , where it is plain he calls all the Words written in the Gospel according to St. Luke , the Word , as each Oration in Isocrates or Demosthenes is called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , i. e. the Word . Proofs that the Scriptures are not the Rule , but the Spirit or Light within , as is common to all Mankind . G. F. G. M. p. 39 , 120. and in his G. M. p. 302. he saith , The Spirit is the Rule that leads into all Truth , so saith Christ . Note , Here he belyes and wrongs Christ's Words ; Christ did not say , the Spirit is the Rule , the Spirit is the Leader who leads us into all Truth , by the Line or Rule of the holy Scriptures , we not having those extraordinary Leading that the Apostles had . Nor is this a meer Strife of Words , but a most necessary Controversie , which is the Foundation of their Deism , and their overthrowing Christiany , and yet this very Year they have reprinted W. P's Discourse concerning the general Rule of Faith and Practice , who brings fourteen Arguments to prove that the Scriptures are not the general Rule of Faith and Practice , to which I have answered in my late Book in Print , called The Deism of W. P. &c. Three of which Arguments of his are , 1. From their Imperfection . 2. Their Uncertainty . 3. Their Obscurity , Yea , Jos . Wyeth in his Switch , chargeth the Scriptures with Vncertainty . This is a most dangerous Heresie ; for by this Principle they are not obliged to believe one intire Doctrine in the Apostles Creed , as indeed I could easily prove ; by their Principles they do not believe one intire Article in that called The Apostles Creed . G. F. G. M. saith , The Apostle doth not tell us of a Creed , but the Pope's Canon Book , p. 355. yet the Quakers now say they believe that called The Apostles Creed : For seeing by denying the Scriptures to be either the Medium or Rule of their Faith , what account can they give for their Faith , to believe one peculiar Article of Christianity ? If they say they have a peculiar Inspiration from the Light within , to believe these peculiar Doctrines ; this in the first place throws down the common Illumination from being the universal Rule , for common and peculiar are differing things . But next , It is a meer Fiction , if they should say they have such a peculiar Inspiration without Scripture , viz. to believe that Christ was born of a Virgin , died for our Sins , rose again the third Day : W. P. grants the Light within doth not reveal these things to them , nor is it needful ; and he grants the Scriptures are an historical Rule , but he will not allow that the Belief of the History of Christ's Birth , Death , &c. is necessary to our Salvation : It is none of the absolute Necessaries he saith . But they have not only denied the Scriptures to be the Word , the Rule , the external Medium of Faith , but have given them Names of Contempt , particularly G. F. who has called them earthly and carnal , Death , Ink and Paper , Dust , and Serpents Meat , G. F's Truth 's Defence , p. 14 , 102. See several Papers given forth , &c. p. 45 , 46. So Dust is the Serpents Meat , their Original is but Dust , which is but the Letter , which is Death ; so these Serpents feed upon Dust , which feed upon all these carnal things , and their Gospel is Dust , Matthew , Mark , Luke , and John , which is the Letter : The cursed Serpent is in the Letter , R. Hub's Words , Truth 's Def. p. 102. Is not this to fright People from reading the Letter , to tell them the cursed Serpent , i. e. the Devil is in it ? Their common Defence is , that G. F. meant all this of the Ink and Paper , but none of all ( whom he calls Serpents ) that is the Protestant Churches did ever say , that the Ink and Paper was the Gospel , they meant the Doctrines and Truths declared by what is writ or printed with Ink on Paper : As for the Switch , Quotations out of G. M. to prove that some of his Opponents had said , The Scripture is God , yea , the Letter of the Scripture is God , Switch , p. 15. and for Proof of this he quotes G. Fox , G. M. p. 261. who affirmed that one Roger Atkinson affirmed , That the Scripture is God ; but had this been so , will that justifie G. F. ●his giving them such opprobrious Names , if one or two Particulars did run into one Extream ? Will this justifie G. F. his running into the other Extream ? The bending a crooked Plant the contrary way will not serve his turn in this case : But that G. Fox his Evidence is not to be trusted , in his quoting his Opponents : I shall clearly prove , G. F. in his Great Mystery , p. 247. quotes C. Wade for the same Trespass that he quotes Roger Atkinson for , namely , that Christopher Wade should affirm , That the Scripture Letter was God and Christ ; for this he quotes his Book called Quakery Slain , but no such Passage is to be found in all that Book ; and C. Wade , in another Book of his , entituled , To all those called Quakers , he charges G. F. with a Hellish Lye and Slander , for affirming that he called the Letter God and Christ ; see this last Book of C. Wade , p. 7. and compare it with his Quakery slain , p. 16. and his Words in that p. 16. being , That the Letter of the New Testament or Gospel , containeth in it the mediate inspired teaching written VVord of Christ , the VVord that was and is God , which , saith C. VVade , is flat contrary to thy Lye. And in his last cited Book , the said C. VVade mentions no less than twelve particular Lyes wherewith G. F. had belyed him in matter of fact as to his Quotations , all which I have considered , and so may others if they have the Books , and will find them indeed to be abusive Perversions and Lies of G. F. upon this C. VVade , but I shall give only two Instances more , that out of the Mouth of two or three Witnesses , that is plain matter of fact G. F. is guilty of false Quotations , and belying the Innocent ( and yet these impudent Men will defend his Infallibility ) one of them is , that G. F. in his G. M. p. 246. chargeth C. VVade to say , O Luciferian Pride to save Souls ; to this C. VVade fully and effectually answereth , and plainly detects the Lie and Perversion in his second Book , where he shews out of the seventh and eighth Page of his Quakery slain , that his Words were , His crying out against James Milner ' s Luciferian Pride to save Souls as Christ did , because he pretended himself to be Christ , and audaciously took upon him to save Souls , as Christ did by his suffering Death ; and hereupon James Milner did in a juggling manner die , and in a juggling inchanting manner , with a Knife and a Bason , he pretended his Blood was shed to save the Souls of two VVomen , this manner of saving Souls only , C. Wade blames , which G. F. either justifies , or renders himself a Lyer by blaming C. Wade . See the Places themselves . The other Lye and Slander which G. F. is guilty of against C. Wade , is that in his G. M. p. 247. he makes C. Wade to say , God limits the Supreme Holy One , by the inspired Writings of the Apostles ; but C. Wade's Words were , That the Devil limits the Supreme Holy One ; see C. Wade's second Book , p. 5. compared with p. 13. of Quakery slain . Note , If either the Switch , or G. Whitehead could prove the like Perversions and Lies against the Author of the Snake , as C. Wade hath here proved against G. F. how would they have sentenced him , as indeed they have , for things of small moment , in comparison of what is here justly proved against their infallible Apostle ( as they pretend he was ) G. F ? But I do not know one Quotation of the Author of the Snake , out of their Books , wherein he hath in a substantial matter wronged him , as G. F. here hath wronged C. Wade , not only in these three , but many more . There yet remains two Quotations out of G. W's own Book , called Truth defending the Quakers , which he most fallaciously and sophistically endeavours to justifie . The Question being put , Whether the Quakers did esteem their Speakings to be of as great Authority as any Chapter in the Bible ? 'T is answered , That which is spoken from the Spirit of Truth in any , is of as great Authority as the Scriptures and Chapters are , and greater . This same Quotation is objected in a late printed Sheet , called An Account from Colchester , where the following Words are set down , that G. W. blames the Norfolk Priests for leaving out , which he calls the annexed explanatory Words , and they are these ; As Christ's VVords were of greater Authority when he spoke , than the Pharises reading the Letter , and they in whom that Spirit speaks not , are out of the Authority of the Scriptures , and their speaking we deny . But first , These Words are not explanatory , but a sophistical Argument to prove the former Assertion ; for G. VV. argues , That because Christ's preaching was of greater Authority than the Pharisees reading the Scriptures , that therefore what the Spirit speaks in the Quakers , and by them , is of greater Authority than the Scriptures , which is both a false and foolish Consequence , for it supposes that the Spirit of God speaks in the Quakers when they preach or speak in Meetings , as it did in Christ and in the Apostles , viz. by the same divine Inspiration in kind and manner , immediately and infallibly , which cannot be granted ▪ and the Falsehood of it appears by the many false things that they speak and write contrary to the Scriptures : And though he mentions not Quakers , yet that he does understand them , and none else , is clear from his own Words : He saith , They in whom that Spirit speaks not , their speaking we deny : This supposeth he grants that the Spirit spoke in some , which they did not deny , and who were these , but the Ministers among the Quakers , seeing they deny the Ministry of all others in our Days . Next he has an impertinent Question , as to the Division of Chapters and Verses , Can these Men say that was done by Divine Authority ? But this is wholly from the purpose . Another Evasion is , That the Spirit of Truth immediately ministring in Man , or by any spiritual Minister , is of greater Authority , Power , or Efficacy , than the Chapters are , simply considered as without the Spirit . But , simply considered as without the Spirit , is wholly remote from the Question , and is no ways to be allowed for any true Vindication , because the Spirit doth as truly and frequently accompany the Scriptures when read as when preached ; or whatever is preached by the Spirit 's Assistance , if the Hearers in reading be as sincere as the Hearers in preaching : But if the Hearers be careless , suppose Men preach by the Spirit , it doth not follow that carnal and careless Hearers hear by the Spirit , more than that they read or hear what is read by the Spirit : But if he will needs have the Words simply and abstractly considered without the Spirit be added to reading , let them , by the like reason , be added to preaching ; what he adds of Christ and the Apostles living and powerful preaching , being of greater Efficacy , Power , and Authority , than the outward Writing or Scripture it self , simply or abstractly considered as distinct from the Spirit : As it was no Part of the Question , nor Answer given by him in Truth 's Defence , so it is altogether impertinent . But he equivocates upon the Word Authority , taking it for the effect it hath on the Hearers ; but that was not the Sense of the Word Authority in the Question asked ; but its Sense ( as it 's generally among all that treat of Scripture Authority above other Writings , so taken ) the Obligation or Right that doth oblige or induce us to believe the Truth of them , and that they are of divine Inspiration : This is quite another thing than the Effect or Impression that Men feel in reading or hearing them read , as well as when preached upon by way of expounding ; for whether the Effect or Influence and Impression be great or little , as it is sometimes great , and sometimes little , and sometimes perhaps none , upon hardned Hearts , yet their Authority is still the same , neither greater nor less at one time than another . The other Quotation is taken out of his Truth defending , and is objected against in that called An Account from Colchester , to which a pretended Answer is given in that called Some Account from Colchester , signed by seven Quakers ; the Passage is this , Is the Moral Law or ten Commandments a Rule to the Christian's Life , or is it not ? Ans . Thou might as well ask if the moral Law , as thou callest it , be a Rule to Christ ? For the Christian's Life and Rule is Christ , who is the End of the Law for Righteousness , who came not to destroy but to fulfil it . Note , In their Answer they groslly equivocate , in taking the Word Christian's Life in another Sense than was meant in the Query , and is meant in common Speech : By a Christian's Life , is meant in the Query and common Speech , a Christian's Practice and manner of Life , with respect to his Thoughts , Words , and Actions . Now , though Christ is called in Scripture the Christian's Life by the Figure of a Metonimy , being the Author of their Life , yet he is not their Practice or Manner of Life , their thinking , speaking , and acting ; and whereas they make it absurd to suppose that the moral Law was a Rule to Christ : Here they shew their Ignorance and Error , for the Man Christ had the moral Law for his Law and Rule , and it did oblige him to Obedience , and he fulfilled it in his own Person , for he was made under the Law , and though the Law is not a Rule to the Spirit of Christ in Believers , yet it is a Rule of the Spirit , whereby he rules them . Next they say , The said Answer appears not to be intended to make void the moral Law or ten Commandments , but the contrary , in asserting Christ to be the End of the Law for Righteousness , and that he came not to destroy the Law , but to fulfil it , therefore the Righteousness thereof remains , and is binding by the holy Spirit in every true Believer , though not under the Law , but under Grace , which effectually teaches , both to deny Vngodliness and worldly Lusts , and to live righteously , soberly , and godly in this present VVorld , Tit. 2. 11 , 12. which answers the Substance and End of the Law. Note , whereas they say , The Righteousness of it remains , and is binding by the holy Spirit in every true Believer , how is it binding by the Spirit , if it be not a Rule to every true Believer ? Doth the Spirit bind Believers to that which is no Rule or Law ? Again , By their Limitation and Restriction of binding by the Spirit , they make the moral Law , as it is outwardly delivered in the holy Scriptures , to have no Obligation upon Believers at all , but only as it is inwardly revealed and given by the Spirit ; and thus Christ's Prophetical and Kingly Office , as he outwardly delivered that Law to us , is of no Force by their Answer ; whereas that Law , and all the other Laws of Christ , have their binding Authority over Believers from Christ the great Prophet , and King , and Head of his Church , as without them delivered by him to them , and sealed by his Spirit in their Hearts ; and though the Spirit of Christ in Christ himself , and in the Prophets and Apostles , was a Lawgiver to Men , yet the Spirit is not a Lawgiver as in us , because his Law is sufficiently given already by Christ , and by his Spirit in Christ , and in his Prophets and Apostles : But the Work and Office of the Spirit in us , and all Believers , is to perswade us of the Truth and Authority of the Laws of Christ already given , to enlighten our Minds to understand them , and inwardly to strengthen us by his Grace , and gracious Influences and Operations to obey them . But to hold that the holy Spirit is any Lawgiver to Believers since the Days of Christ and the Apostles , is of no less dangerous Consequence , than to overthrow Christianity , and introduce Deism and Mahumetism : For indeed , upon that Pretence , the Laws of the Turks Alcoran are set up and by the same Pretence G. F. did throw down Christ's Institutions of Baptism and the Supper , and Church-Government by Pastors and Elders , and set up Laws and Rules that he pretended to have given him by the Spirit ; and this was the Pretence of the ancient Montanists : Yea , W. Penn , on this very Pretence , rejects Baptism and the Supper , affirming , That the same Spirit that led the Apostles to reject Circumcision , hath led the Quakers to reject the outward Baptism and Supper . Lastly , whereas they say , A Believer is not under the Law , but under Grace ; this doth not justifie their vile Heresie , That the moral Law is not a Rule of Life to Christians ; for though they are not under the Curse and Condemnation of it , nor as it is a Law of Works , so as thereby to be justified , yet they are under it , even as outwardly given by Christ and his Prophets and Apostles , as a Rule of Life : And thus , as they disannul and make void the moral Law of the Ten Commandments , so all the other positive Laws and Commands of the Gospel , making the Gospel nothing but the Light within all Mankind , and Gospel Commands nothing but what that dictates , though they are not agreed about the Commands of the Light within , either their Number or Duration , or whether there are any new Commands given in this Age , as G. F. pretends was given to him , and by him to the Quakers . But again , How doth it appear , that their Answer doth not make void the moral Law or Ten Commandments , when they reject the Morality of the fourth Commandment , and do not allow , that one Day of seven is to be observed , and to be sanctified , by abstaining from servile Labour , and giving that Day to religious Exercise , as appears from another Quotation in that called An Account from Colchester , taken out of G. W's Truth defending ? To which they pretend to give answer , in that called Some Account from Colchester , p. 11. Did that Quaker sin therein or not , who brought lately , on the Lord's Day , an old Doublet into Dr. Gell ' s Church in London , and sate upon the Communion Table mending it , while the Dr. was preaching ; the Parishoners forbidding him ? In their Answer they expostulate with him , as if it were Popery 〈◊〉 it a Crime Sin to work upon the Communion Table , as if it were a more holy Place than another . But though it have no inherent Holiness , yet it being dedicated to that Use , every sober Christian will say , it was a great Sin by diverse aggravating Circumstances , as done in Contempt of the Institution of our Lord himself , who appointed the Practice of breaking of Bread ; and that there should be a Table ▪ is evident from Scripture , that mentions the Table of the Lord. Secondly ▪ The doing of it while the Dr. was preaching . Thirdly , The wilful Offence designedly given to the People present , upon Pretence of bearing witness against their Idolatry and idolatrous Practice , as the Quakers were wont to censure it . Fourthly , The doing of it on the first Day of the Week , set apart from servile Labour , to the Worship of God. Fifthly , The Breach of that golden Law of Equity , Not doing as they would be done by ; for would not the Quakers account it a great Sin and Trespass , if any of the Church of England , or Dissenter , should sit in one of their Galleries where they stand to preach , and kneel at Prayer , and mend an old Doublet , while they are preaching in their Meeting Places ? Surely they would greatly aggravate it , and call it rude and unmannerly and profane . Again , whereas they query , Where dost thou read in the Scripture , that Men must do no Work on the first Day of the Week ? And this Query is made to justifie the Quaker's sitting on the Communion Table to mend an old Doublet on the first Day , in time of Divine Service . Is not this a great Shame , to print and reprint such avowed Profanation of the Lord's Day , and Worship also , in the Face of a Protestant Nation , that zealously profess to be against the Profanation of it , and where are standing Laws against the Profanation of it ? Note here , that whereas the Quakers affirm that what they speak and write , is immediately and infallibly from God ; their professed Principle obligeth them to hold , that what they speak and write , is of greater Certainty , and consequently of greater Authority than the Scriptures , because they are certain of what they speak and write from the Spirit in themselves , but they are not certain of the Writings of the Scriptures , as W. P. argues in his Discourse concerning the General Rule : They have not the Autographa , the Copies differ , and so do the Translations , but they have their own Autographa , and their Books and Writings are from the Original immediately . Thus when G. W. sent me his Curse , Thus saith the Lord , &c. and signed G. W. This had more Authority with him than the Scripture , by his own Doctrine , and if he please , let him add , simply considered as without the Spirit . Proofs on the fourth Head. Concerning the Holy Trinity . GEorge Whitehead , in his Truth and Inn. and Jos . Wyeth , in his Switch , pretends , That it is not the Doctrine or thing intended that they deny , i. e. the Father , the Word , and Holy Spirit , which three are one . And saith Jos . Wyeth , We own their Distinction in all the Instances of it recorded in Holy Writ . The only thing they pretend to scruple at or deny , is the calling them three Persons , which they say are not Scripture Terms , and they are wholly for keeping to Scripture Terms in Matters of Doctrine . But to this I say ' first , How many unscripture Terms do they freequently use ? Where do they find in Scripture , the Term immediate Revelation , immediate teaching of the Spirit , immediate Word , which they so commonly use ? Again , where do they find in Scripture , That , see G. M. p. 324. the Seed , to which the Promise of Salvation is , is Christ within ? And that Expression , where do they find it in Scripture , That the same Spirit takes upon it the same Seed , which is Christ , now as ever , &c. That God the Father took upon him Humane Nature , That the Spirit is the Rule ; and many more , not only unscripture Terms , but contrary to Scripture ? But why do they call them Three Witnesses , as G. W. hath so expresly called them ? Where do they find them in Scripture so called ? That Place in John's first Epistle doth not call them Three Witnesses , but Three bearing Record , or witnessing . But it is not only the Words . Three Persons , wherewith they are offended ( th● unjustly , for personal Acts and Properties are given to them , and therefore , according to plain Consequence from Scripture , they may be called Persons ) but the Doctrine or thing intended they deny , for they allow not that they are distinct ▪ otherwise than in Manifestation ; see G. W's Divinity of Christ , p. 94. he saith , The Three that bear Record in Heaven , the Father , the Word , and the Spirit ( or the Father , Son , and Holy Ghost ) are one and inseparable , no where in Scripture called three separate Persons , nor finite in Personalities , though Three [ in Manifestation ] and so testified of ( as Three Witnesses ) for the Confirmation of the Gospel . Note , Seeing G. W. doth not own them to be Three , otherwise but in Manifestation , this is not only to deny the Names or Words , Three Persons , but to deny that they were Three from all Eternity , or before all Ages , for there was no Manifestation , either of One , or Two , or Three from Eternity : His calling them Three in Manifestation , is to call them three Manifestations ; and seeing all Manifestation has a Beginning with Time , by his Doctrine there were not Father , Son , and Holy Ghost , three any wise distinct from Eternity : There was no God the Father from Eternity that did beger , nor no Son from Eternity that was begotten , nor Holy Ghost that from Eternity did proceed from the Father and the Son , by G. VVhitehead's Doctrine . And F. Hougil , in his Collection , p. 308. delivers the same erronious Doctrine : He saith , That the Holy Ghost is called another ( than Christ : ) Another is not understood of another Life , of another Substance ; but is understood of another Manifestation , or Operation of the same God , who subsists in the same Power in which the Father , the Son , and the Spirit subsist , as I said unto thee before : Another , as to distinguish of the Operation and VVork of the Spirit and of the Son , we do not refuse . By this Doctrine of F. Hougil , they are but distinct Manifestations , Operations , and Works . Now if G. VV. or the Author of the Switch will say , that there were three Manifestations , Operations , or Works in the Godhead from all Eternity : It is absurd to suppose such Manifestations , beside that they are unscripture Terms , the same Arguments that they use against , three Persons , will as much , and indeed much more , be of Force against three Manifestations ; for if the Father be a Manifestation from Eternity , of what is he a Manifestation ? Can he be a Manifestation of himself ? Or is he a Manifestation of the Son , who ( as they say ) is a Manifestation ? Thus one Manifestation would be the Manifestation of another Manifestation ; but then what would the Holy Spirit be a Manifestation of ? And seeing in God there are no Accidents , these three Manifestations are not three Accidents , nor three Subsistences , nor three Substances , nor three Persons ; and consequently ( according to these Men ) they are nothing at all but their own Inventions . But VV. Penn , in his Sandy Foundation , has not only argued against three Persons , but against the Holy Three , for he bringeth five Arguments against their being a Holy Three , Page 12 , 13 , 14. one of which is this in express Words : Since the Father is God , the Son is God , and the Spirit is God ( which their Opinion necessitates them to confess ) then unless the Father , Son , and Spirit are three distinct nothings , they must be three distinct Substances , and consequently , three distinct Gods. Now let his Argument be applied to the unscripture Terms , three Manifestations , and it will have the same Force , or rather greater ; but indeed it hath none at all against three distinct Persons , for there is a plain Distinction of a Medium in created Beings , betwixt Substance and Nothing , the three Dimensions of a Body , Length , Breadth , and Depth , are neither three Nothings , nor three Substances ; the Understanding , Will , and Locomotive Power of Man's Soul , are neither three Nothings , nor three Substances , and yet they are but one Soul , though all Creaturely Similitudes are improper to express this Mystery . Beside , how could a Manifestation become Flesh , or take Man's Nature , as the Son did ? And how could one Manifestation send another , or beget another , or a third Manifestation proceed from two other Manifestations ? But whereas Jos . VVyeth saith in his Switch , p. 184. VVe own their Distinction in all the Instances of it recorded in Holy VVrit : In contradiction to this , hear F. Hougil , in his Collection , p. 251. he calls it damnable Doctrine to say , That Christ must be distinct from the Father and the Holy Ghost : Before in God , and now from God ; their Quibble about separate doth not help them , for some that have so called them , have declared they meant nothing by separate but distinct ; and now if Jos . VVyeth and G. VV. will have distinct to signifie separate , seeing they pretend to own the Distinction of the Father and the Son , they must own the Separation . And whereas , the Teachers among the Quakers profess they are not changed in any thing of Doctrine or Practice , from what they were from the Beginning , for Truth is one ( say they ) and changes not , and as God is one , and Truth is one and changeth not , so his People are one : Now let us compare the Doctrine of G. VVhitehead , what it was in the Year 1659. when he writ his Truth defending the Quakers ( which he said was written from the Spirit of Truth ) concerning the Doctrine of the Holy Trinity , and what it was in the Year 1697 , when he wrote his Antidote against the Venome of the Snake . In his Truth defending , &c. printed 1659. in p. 2. he saith , VVhat the Scripture saith of the Godhead , the Father , the VVord , and the Spirit , which are one , 1 Joh. 5. 7. we own , but deny the Popish Term of three distinct Persons , which you call God the Father , God the Son , and God the Holy Ghost , which tends to the dividing God , and to the making three Gods : [ Note , here he not only denies the three Persons , but the Orthodox and Scriptural Explanation of them , of God the Father , God the Son , and God the Holy Ghost . ] And thou who hast vindicated such a Dream ; could never prove it by the Scripture , when thou wast put upon it : And do not you Priests , in your Divinity , as you call it , affirm , that a Person is a single rational compleat Substance , and differing from another by an incommunicable Property ? And art thou so blind , as to think that there is such a Difference in the Godhead ? Seeing Christ is equal with his Father who is a Spirit , then what incommunicable Property can he differ in from the Father , that is not communicable to the one as well as the other ? Here we see , he not only opposes the Terms , Three Persons , but the Distinction of the Three their incommunicable Properties , which are these , That the Father begot the Son from everlasting , the Son was begot of the Father from everlasting , and the Holy Ghost did proceed , both from the Father and the Son from everlasting ; and surely the Father's Property is incommunicable to the Son , and so is the Son 's to the Father , and the Holy Ghost's Property to both , for it cannot be said , that the Son begot the Father , or that the Son is the Father , &c. or that the Holy Ghost is either the Father or the Son. But now let us hear his late Doctrine in his printed Antidote , 1697. p. 139. Though 't is true ( saith he ) in one Sense , the Father , Son , and Holy Ghost are not essentially distinct , as to their divine Being , which is but one , they are but one God ; but in respect to their Properties of Relation , as Father , Son , and Holy Ghost , as such they are distinct , but not divided nor separate , either in themselves , or VVork of the old or new Creation . First , G. VV. should tell us , where doth he find in Scripture , in express Terms , that they are distinct in respect to their Properties of Relation . Secondly , Whether these Properties of Relation are communicable or incommunicable Properties : Surely he must say , incommunicable , and that he did in his Book , Truth defending , expresly deny : For if he should say , these Properties are communicable , such as God's absolute Properties are , as holy , wise , good , &c. then the Son might beget , and the Father might be begotten . And lastly , Seeing he now owns a Distinction of Properties of Relation , though in unscripture Terms , he must , by good consequence , own three Persons to be the Subjects of those Properties , for no Properties , or Predicates , or Attributes , can be without their proper Subjects ; for though it is the Father's Property to have begot the Son from everlasting , yet the Father is not a Property , but the Person or Subject that has that Property . Thus we see , how Proteus-like G. VV. has changed his Shapes in the Years 1659. and 1697. and yet there is no Shadow of Change in him for all this , if we will believe him . But further , by some of his late Books , we shall find him , not only owning the Distinction of the three , in respect to their Properties of Relation , but advanced much nearer , so far as to disown his former Opposition to the Terms Three Persons , which in his Book called Ishmael , that was his jointly with others , he had charged his Opponent to have conjured out of one , and told him , that both they and he are shut up in perpetual Darkness for the Lake ; and this he doth in two several Books , one printed in the Year 1690. called The Christianity of the People commonly called Quakers , where he sets down the Words quoted out of his Ishmael more largely ; the other called Truth and Innocency , printed this very Year , 1699. where he leaves out the most offensive Words , and puts an &c. in their room , as being ( I supose ) ashamed of them , and well he might ; but he is not ashamed to affirm , he is not changed in his Faith. But let us hear how he excuseth what he writ in his Ishmael , that was printed in the Year 1655. Though his Name is at the Book , yet he positively disowns the Words , and affirms , They are none of his , and that he writ not that Part of the Answer to Townsend : And in his Book , called The Christianity , &c. above mentioned , he saith He looks on the Words as wrong writ , or wrong printed , and that he raced them out , or corrected them long since , where he has met with that Answer . But is not this a Piece of dull Sophistry to save the Credit of his Infallibility ? Had he not better , more like a Man and a Christian , acknowledged his Error , than to lay the Fault upon [ as wrong writ , or wrong printed ? ] And if he corrected them long since , how comes it that he never published his Correction in any of the Books he has published since , betwixt the Year 1655. and 1690. containing the space of 36. Years ? But for evidence against him , that he hath not sincerely said , That he writ not that Part of the Book , it is enough that he owned it , and this I can prove , that without Exception , he owned it to be his jointly with these others who signed it with him , as appears from his Truth defending the Quakers , p. 1. printed four Years after the Ishmael : And he belches out the like antichristian and profane Expressions against the three Persons in the Godhead , in Terms equivalent to those in the Ishmael . He saith , in his first Page , in Answer to the first Question , Do not you repent for your endeavouring vainly to defend , August 29. 1659. in so great a Congregation , these Positions printed in a Book writ by George Whitehead ? He answers for himself and his Brethren thus : The Positions we defended , are according to the Scriptures of Truth , and them we need not repent of . These were they contained in that very Book called Ishmael , as doth appear out of the Book Ishmael it self ; [ here the Book was produced ] one of which Positions were , in asserting the Scriptures or Writing not to be the Word : Another was , That there is no such Word in the Scriptures , as Three Persons in the Trinity , but it is a Popish Doctrine , as the Mass or Common-Prayer-Book mentions it . Fourthly , And thou that affirms three distinct Persons in the Godhead , art a Dreamer , and he that dreams , and tells Lies , contrary to the Scriptures of Truth which we own , he with his Imaginations and Dreams , is for the Lake . Here it is plain , that by his Imaginations and Dreams , G.W. meant the Ministers Doctrines of calling the Scriptures the Word , and affirming that there are three Persons in the Godhead ; so whereas he said in his Ishmael , Townsend and the three Persons are shut up in perpetual Doctrines : Here in Truth defending , &c. he saith , He with his Imaginations and Dreams [ that is the three Persons ] is for the Lake : Now this is not one whit more sober than his Words in the Ishmael , how then is it that G. Whitehead has not found some shift to put this part of his Truth defending upon another ? Again , in his Truth defending , &c. p. 25. he plainly owns that Book called Ishmael to be his , four Years after it was printed ; and now , though in his Truth defending , &c. he saith , That he and his Brethren need not repent of the Positions laid down in that called Ishmael ; yet now in the Year 1690. in his Christianity , he saith , He was sorry his Name was to that Paper ; and yet , as before is mentioned , in Truth defending , p. 1. he saith , They need not repent of it . Is not this a plain Change in G. W. He need not repent of what was writ , and yet was sorry that it was writ : Formerly he owned that Book in the Year 1659 , and in the Year 1690 , He writ not that Part , and was sorry it was writ ; and all this without any Change in his Mind : But when People are sorry for what they do , we commonly reckon they repent of it . This offensive Passage , objected against G. Whitehead , out of his Ishmael , was objected against him by Christopher Wade , in his Quakery slain , p. 9. printed in 1657. And though G. W. printed against C. Wade , in his Truth defending , 1659. yet he then took no notice of that Passage , to disown it to be his . But how is it that G. W. disowns what was written in the Book called Ishmael , against the three Persons ? Doth he now own the three Persons not to be Popish , as he formerly charged them , Truth def . p. 2 ? Though he has not in the least retracted his abusive and reviling Speeches against this glorious Truth , both in the Ishmael , and in his Truth defending , &c. [ for that would reflect upon his Infallibility ) yet he would seem now to own the Doctrine of the three Persons , since the Act for Toleration came forth , for that Act of Toleration does except those who deny , in their preaching or writing , the Doctrine of the blessed Trinity , as it is declared in the Articles of Religion , viz. the 39 Articles . But that G. W. may have the Benefit of the Act ( which at present he has not by Law , whatever he has by Indulgence ) he ought also to disown some other abusive Expressions of his , and sophistical Arguings he has used in his other Books , as particularly , not only in his Truth defending , &c. above mentioned ; but in his Divinity of Christ , signed by the two Letters , G. W. see p. 18. he hath these Words , As to T. D ' s telling of the Son of God's Incarnation , the Creation of his Body and Soul , the Parts of that Nature be subsisted in , &c. To this I say ( saith G. W. ) if the Body and Soul of the Son of God were both created , doth not this render him a fourth Person ? And as nonsensical and abusive is the reasoning of G. Fox their great Apostle , in the Epistle prefixed to the Divinity , signed by him and John Stubbs , where , in the 9th Page of that Epistle , they thus argue ; — And he speaks again , in his 14th Page , of three distinct Persons are one with the Godhead : Now Reader , is not here four , to wit , three Persons and the Godhead ? And thus G. F. and G. W. make no less , by their wild and nonsensical Reasonings , than five Persons in the Godhead , an Absurdity they would fix on the Doctrine of three Persons ; for by their Arguments , the Godhead is the fourth Person , and Christ's created Soul and Body is the fifth : Do not these Passages require a Retractation , and will they say they are Protestants , and one with the Church of England in Matter of Doctrine , and in the common Principles of Christianity , and yet boldly stand in the Defence of those abusive Passages ? But whereas they argue ( ad hominem ) that there must be five Persons , if Father , Son , and Holy Ghost be said to be three Persons , seeing G. W. calls them three Witnesses , by their nonsensical Argument , there must be five Witnesses that bear Record in Heaven , viz. the Father , the Son , and the Holy Ghost , and the Godhead ; these are four , and the created Soul and Body of Christ , that is the fifth : But G.W. has a way to evade this last , by denying that Christ has any created Soul or Body , as in the Words in p. 18. above mentioned doth appear , for which I shall have some use hereafter . Jos . Wyeth , in his Switch , p. 184. would make his Readers believe , It 's only the Word Person they object against , as too gross : We cannot ( saith he ) but think the VVord Person too gross to express them . But to detect this Fallacy , pray let us take notice , that G. F. whom he calls an Apostle , has expresly owned the Person of the Father , G. M. p. 247. But thou saith , Christ doth not dwell in them personally , doth not Christ dwell in his Saints , as he is in the Person of the Father , the Substance ? And are not they of his Flesh , and of his Bone ? Again , G. Fox , G.M. p. 248. owns expresly Christ's Person ; for first , having cited his Opponent's Words ; It is a false thing to say Christ's Person is in Man ; in his Answer ( without finding the least fault with the Term Person ) he makes Opposition thus , VVhich is as much as to say , none are of his Flesh , or of his Bone , nor eat it , nor had not his Substance . By this it appears , that G. F. did not find fault , either with the Word Person , as belonging to the Father , or with Christ's Person , but he will not allow them to be two Persons , but one Person . But if any will say , he allowed them to be two Persons , then by the Arguments , both of G. F. and G. VV. they must be two Gods ; for if three Persons infer by Argument , three Gods , by the same Argument , two Persons will infer two Gods. The above mentioned Words of G. F. in G. M. Doth not Christ dwell in his Saints , as he is in the Person of the Father , the Substance ? Jos . VVyeth , in his Switch , recites as quoted out of the Snak● : Here the Switch finds no fault with G. Fox's owning the Person of the Father , which were G. F's own Words , but labors to prove , that by that spiritual Oneness betwixt Christ and his Followers , G.F. did not mean to make the Soul of the same Person and Substance with God , which how ineffectual his Labor is in that may be shewn afterwards . Note , that the Switch doth justifie G. F. his Saying , That God the Father did take upon him Humane Nature , p. 190. and in Truth 's defence , by G. F. p. 85. The Son's Body is called the Father's ; they are one , not two , viz. the Son and the Father . But here , once more on this Head , let us take notice of G. VV 's Fallibility and self Contradiction in most evident manner . In his Light and Life , p. 47. he blames his Opponent , VV. B. for these Words following , concerning Christ ; Now , as he was God , he was Co-creator with the Father , and so was before Abraham , and had Glory with God before the VVorld was , and in this Sense came down from Heaven . To this G.VV. replies , VVhat Nonsence and unscripture Language is this , to tell of God being Co-creator with the Father , or that God had Glory with God ? Doth not this imply two Gods , and that God had a Father , let the Reader judge ? Note how he calleth it Nonsence and unscripture Language , to say , That Christ , as God , had Glory with God , and that he had a Father ; which is a plain Evidence that G. VV. denied the eternal divine Generation of the Son , contrary both to the Nicene and Athanasian Creed , and Scripture also . But let us see how he excuses himself in his Antidote , p. 188. But the Phrase , God Co-creator with God , I think still implies two Creators , and consequently two Gods. 'T is not the Particle Co , with , in this case , will excuse the matter , for Co or Con is simul , together , as Co-workers , Co-partners , which are more distinct Agents than one , but the Creator is but one God , one VVord , one Spirit , and so one Creator . Note , Here we see the Force of G. VV's Argument against Christ the Word , being God , Co-creator with the Father , is , that it would infer the Father and the Son to be Co-workers , and consequently two Gods. This Antidote he writ in the Year 1697. but in the Year 1674. wherein he published his Quakers Plainness , in p. 24. he allows the Father and the Son to be Co-workers in the following Words ; That the Distinction of the Father and the Son , is not only nominal ( as this Opposer implies against us ) but real , in the divine Relation of Father and Son ; the Son as being the only begotten of the Father , and also known as Co-workers ; in the Order and Degrees of Manifestation and Discovery , where it is plain , by his late manner of arguing , in his Antidote , against the Father and the Son being Co-workers , that it doth infer two Gods ; that in his Saying , in his Quakers Plainness , as above quoted , That the Father and the Son are known as Co-workers ; he has rendred himself guilty , by his own Argument , of holding the Father and the Son to be two Gods : This is not only a Contradiction to himself , but a severe Censure on himself , that in the Year 1674. he was guilty of Idolatry , in holding , That the Father and the Son are two Gods. Note Reader , that the Quakers use to object two things against my charging Contradictions upon G. W. and other their principal Authors : First , That I have contradicted my self in my former and later Writings : To this I have answered , What in my later Writings I have retracted of my former Errors , is no Contradiction ; for that 's a Contradiction , when a Man holds contradictory Propositions to be both true [ simul & semel ] without retracting his Errors . But what a Man retracts , he is no more chargeable with ; let G. W. and his Brethren retract their Errors , and I shall cease to charge them with them , or with Contradictions . Secondly , they object , That I may find as many Contradictions in the Scriptures , as in their Books : Thus we see how they undervalue the Scriptures , to be as contradictory as their Authors ; but I deny there are any real Contradictions in the Scriptures , but there are many in the Quakers Authors . Again further , hear a Quotation out of the Primmer of G. F. junior , and S. Crisp , p. 24. And they that come to see and know the Son , they come to see and know the Father also , for the Father is in the Son , and the Son is in the Father , as saith the Scriptures , and they are called by one Name , which is , The Word , or The Light , For the Word is God , and Christ is the Word , and God is Light , and Christ is the Light of the World , and the Spirit of Life proceeds from God and Christ , who are Light. Note , Seeing they hold that the Father and the Son are called by one Name , which is , The Word , and that the Father is the Word , and the Son is the Word , it is evident they make no Distinction betwixt the Father and Son ? and therefore , according to their false Doctrine , seeing the Word was made Flesh , and the Father is the Word , the Father was made Flesh , the Father was born of a Virgin , the Father suffered Death on the Cross , yea , the Father is the Son , and the Son is the Father , which is a plain overturning the great Fundamentals of Christianity ; yet this Primmer is so highly magnified among the Quakers , that almost every Family of them have it to teach it their Children , and they call it in the Preface , A Fruit of the Plant of Righteousness , given forth for the removing the Vse of such Books and Catechisins , as are sprung forth of the corrupt Tree , which now is to be burned , and its Fruit rejected : Now these are all the Books and Catechisms published by any others but themselves . Again , in p. 23. they say , And though some have known him ( viz. Christ after the Flesh ) yet henceforth know they him so no more , as say the Scriptures of Truth . Note , Here they pervert the true Sence of Paul's Words , as they commonly do in their Books and Preachings , giving Paul's Words for a Reason why they do not preach Faith in Christ , as he came in the Flesh , died , and rose again , &c , as necessary to Salvation , because , say they , VVe are no more to know Christ after the Flesh ; whereas it was the great Subject , both of Paul's Preaching , and of all the Apostles , to wit , Jesus Christ , as he came in the Flesh , died for our Sins , and rose again , and ascended , &c. insomuch , that they did , with one Accord , declare , That the Gift of the Holy Ghost , with all the saving and sanctifying Graces of the Spirit , do come to Men , by Christ , through Faith in him , as he came in the Flesh , died , rose , and ascended ; and that this Faith was wrought in Men by hearing the VVord outwardly preached . Again , in p. 23. they say , Now Children , the Scriptures of Truth do declare of God and Christ , and the Spirit of Truth , which are one ; but the Scriptures cannot bring you to know God , and Christ , and the Spirit of Truth : And yet they say , concerning this Primmer , and the Contents of it , p. 2. That they are very useful for Children and others to Learn , that they may be turned unto the Light , which is the Gift of God : Here they seem to prefer their Primmer to the Scriptures ; for they say , of the Contents of their Primmer , That they are very useful for Children and others to Learn : To learn what ? Surely some Knowledge of God and Christ they will say , and yet they will not allow so much to the Scripture ; and on a diligent Search , I find not , in all this Primmer , one simple Direction , to Children and others , to read the Scriptures , and what they have quoted of Scripture in it , is but little , and much , even of that , grosly perverted and misapplied , as in p. 44 , 45. they say , They that hear the Light [ that is in all Men , and common to all Men ] they hear God , for God is Light , and they that hear God , they hear Christ also , for God and Christ are one ( as saith the Scripture ) and they that hear Christ , hear the Author of the true Faith , and so hear the Saviour of their Souls , and the Light is that Prophet , which all that hear not him , are to be cut off . Here we see how grosly they pervert that Place of Scripture , Deut. 18. 15. Acts 3. 22. 7. 37. which is not to be understood of the common Illumination given to all Mankind , but of the Man Christ , as he outwardly came in the Flesh , and did execute his prophetical Office on Earth , by preaching and teaching ; and as he doth now still execute his prophetical Office in his Church , by his Word outwardly preached , and his Spirit inwardly accompanying it to make it effectual . Again , p. 82. they run into the same wild Notion , that others , Familists and mad Enthusiasts run into , of the Blood of Christ within them : For , say they , and all wait together in the Light [ viz. as it is common to all Mankind , Infidels , Jews , Mahumetans , Heathens ; for so they understand it ] and believe in it , that ye may be the Children of the Light , and therein watch unto Prayer , and one over another , and this will beget ye into unfeigned Love , and walk in the Light , ye will have true Vnity and Fellowship one with another , and the Blood , which is the Life of Jesus Christ , ye will feel cleansing you from all Sin , and so ye will come into Vnity with God. Note , By this it is evident , as will more fully appear on a particular Head following , that by the Blood , which they call the Life of Jesus Christ , they meant not his Blood outwardly shed , or his Life that he outwardly laid down , viz. the Life of his Manhood without us , for the Remission of our Sins , and cleansing therefrom : But according to their usual Cant and Phrase , The Blood , that is the Life , and the Life is the Light within : So that they make the Blood , the Life , and the Light within them , to be one and the same thing ; but neither in this Primmer , nor in any other of their Books , do I find the least Direction to Faith in the Blood of Christ , as it was outwardly shed on the Cross , therefore in this Primmer , and in their other Books , they give Poison to poor Children , to suck or receive , instead of wholesome Food . George Keith's Fourth Narrative , OF HIS Proceedings at Turners-Hall , 1699. For the Detecting the QUAKERS ERRORS . PART II. Containing the Proofs out of the Quakers Books on the fifth Head , concerning Christ , his Incarnation , his Soul , Body , and Blood. And on the sixth Head , concerning the Souls of Men. Read at the second Meeting at Turners-Hall , January 19. 1699. W. P. in Serious Apology , p. 146. saith , That the outward Person which suffered , was properly the Son of God , we utterly deny . This is expresly contrary to many Texts of Scripture , and to a great Fundamental Article of our Christian Creed ; yea , in a manner , it overthrows the whole Christian Creed : See the following Scriptures , Mat. 16. 13 , 16. Luke 1. 32. Mat. 14. 33. Mark 1. 1. John 1. 14 , 34. John 9. 35. 10. 36. Acts 8. 37. Rom. 1. 4. Mat. 27. 54. G.W. in his Truth and Inn. p. 52. excuseth W. P ' s Words thus , Here I take him to mean the Son of God , in respect to his Divine Being , as he is of one Substance with the Father , which his Body that suffered Death was not , though he was truly the Son of God , as he took upon him that Body , and as made of a Woman : Gal. 4. 4. Being conceived by the Holy Ghost , and born of the Virgin Mary . The Fallacy of this is easily detected , the Question in Debate betwixt W. P. and his Opponents , who were Presbyterian Ministers in Ireland , was not whether the Body was the Son of God , abstractly considered from the Soul of Christ and his Godhead , for no Presbyterian ever held that , neither will any Socinian that denyeth the Godhead of Christ say , that that meer Body , without his created Soul , was the Christ or Son of God. But the true State of the Question was and is , whether he that outwardly suffered Death without the Gates of Jerusalem , ( whom W. P. calls that outward Person . in Distinction from the Light within , which the Quakers will have to be the whole Christ , according to G. Fox's Doctrine ) was and is not properly the Son of God , which all sound Christians say , according to Scripture , he was and is , being both God and Man , and yet one Person , one Christ , one Son of God , having his Godhead-Nature , and his Manhood-Nature , so united as to constitute one Christ , which is by a miraculous and extraordinary Union , that no other Creatures , neither Angels or Men , are dignified with ? and though Christ , as Man , was the Son of God , miraculously conceived and born in Time , and also , as God , was , by a Generation from Eternity , before all Worlds and Times , yet he is but one Son of God , and because of the personal Union of the Word with his Manhood , both as God and Man he is properly the Son of God. But there is yet another Fallacy in G. W's Words , which is , that neither the visible Body , nor Manhood , that was born of the Virgin , was any Part of the true Christ , or Son of God ; and first , As to that visible Body of Flesh and Bones , he denies that Christ consisted of it . I distinguish ( said he ) between consisting and having , Christ had [ visible ] Flesh and Bones , but he did not consist of them , Christian Quaker , p. 139 , 140. This shews us the very Heart of their Heresie . In like manner , W. P. argues , for 16. Pages in his Rejoinder against Faldo , That Christ never died , for they will not have any thing properly to be the Christ , but his Godhead , which they make to be all one , identically and essentially with his Heavenly Mandhood , consisting of Heavenly Flesh and Blood , that he had from all Eternity . Here a Quaker , called John Whiting , opposed , in Defence of W. Penn , and said , W. Penn did not deny , that that outward Person was the Son of God : I askt him , whose Son was he properly ? He said , The Son of Mary : I replied ; Mary was his Mother , but who was his Father properly ? He said , He was conceived by the Holy Ghost : I again replied , But that 's no Answer to my Question , who was his Father ? Every Son must have a Father , and seeing Christ had no immediate Father but God , then surely he was properly the Son of God , as the Scripture plainly testifieth . To this he made no Reply , but opposed in Defence of G. W. I having said , that G. W. denied that visible Body , that hung on the Cross , to be any Part of the true Christ ; I replied , I have proved it already , by the late Quotation here read , wherein he says , He denies that Christ consisted of Flesh and Bones ; I distinguish , said he , between consisting and having , Christ had Flesh and Bones , but did not consist of them , as a Man has a Coat or Garment , but doth not consist of it , and that outward Person that suffered at Jerusalem , was Christ by a Metonimy ( saith VV. P. ) of the thing containing , having the Name of the thing contained : And at this rate , VV. P. himself may be called Christ , because he hath Christ in him . The Excuse , That Christ did not Meerly consist of Flesh and Bones , signifies nothing , for that was no Part of the Question betwixt G.VV. and his Opponent : None ever said , That Christ did meerly consist of Flesh , Blood , and Bones ; no Socinian will so affirm , for that were to say , Christ was meerly a Body of Flesh and Bones , without a rational Soul ; whatever hath Parts , doth consist of those Parts , incompleatly of one or more Parts , compleatly of them all : The Foundation of the Quakers great Error on this Head , lieth here , That because Christ was before the Body was ; therefore that Body is no Part of him , which is easily answered thus , Christ was before that Body was , but he was not compleatly , and in all Respects , fitted to be the anointed Saviour of the World , until the Word was made Flesh , i. e. until the Word did take our Flesh and whole Nature into a personal Union with himself , the which was necessary to the compleat Performance of his Mediatory Offices , of King , Priest , and Prophet , and especially of his Priestly Office. And not only G. VV. hath denyed Christ to have any created Body , whereof he consists , but he hath denyed that he hath any created Soul , in his Answer to T. Danson ' s Synopsis , p. 18. As to T. Danson's telling of the Son of God's Incarnation , the Creation of his Body and Soul , the Parts of that Nature he subsisted in , &c. To this I say , if the Body and Soul of the Son of God were both created , doth not this render him a fourth Person ? For Creation was in Time , which contradicts their Doctrine of three distinct , increated , coeternal , coessential Persons in the Deity , seeing that which was created , was not so : But herein , whether doth not his , and their Ignorance of the only begotten of the Father , and their Denial of Christ's Divinity , plainly appear , yea or nay ? VVhere doth the Scripture say , that his Soul was created ? For was not he the Brightness of his Father's Glory , and the express Image of his Divine Substance ? But supposing the Soul of Christ , was , with the Body , created in time ; I ask , if from Eternity he was a Person distinct from God and his holy Spirit , without either Soul or Body , and where doth the Scripture speak of any Person without either Soul or Body ? T. Elwood , to cover this gross Error of G.VV. in his pretended Answer to my first Narrative , saith , That G. W. only denyed that Christ had a created Soul , as God : But this was not the State of the Question , for neither T. D. nor any other Man , were ever so gross as to affirm , that Christ as God , had a created Soul : And the like Evasion doth G. VV. use himself , in his Antidote , p. 191. This Question ( saith he ) is no Determination , that it was , or was not Christ ; as God , his Soul was increated ; as Man , his Soul or Spirit was not the Deity , but formed and assumed by the VVord : But it 's Evident , that his accusing T. D. and others of Ignorance , for saying , it was created , determines it sufficiently . But as is above said , G. W. and his Brethren will have only the Godhead to be the Christ , which they call , The Heavenly Man , having Soul and Body , Flesh , Blood , and Bones , uncreated , and existing from all Eternity , which they call , The Seed within them , the Seed of the Woman that bruiseth the Serpent's Head , which G. F. ( as is above quoted ) denyeth to be a Creature : What the Seed spoke in him , he said , he spoke it not as a Creature ; therefore , that Heavenly Man , or Seed , consisting of Heavenly Flesh and Blood , which they say is in them , not being a Creature , must needs , in their Sense , be from all Eternity , and not from the Beginning of the World only . This appears yet more fully from R. Hubberthorn . When was that Christ created , which you say , must , as a Creature , judge the World ? And if in Mary's Time , who was Judge of the World till then ? Was not the Person of Christ Jesus before the World was ? [ Note , here he owns Christ to be a Person ; and by G. W's Argument above mentioned , he must , being a Person , have both Soul and Body before the World was . ] And when had the Man , Christ Jesus , his Beginning ? If you can declare it , how is Christ the only begoten Son of God , if he be a Creature ? Or how can God beget a Creature ? And if the whole Person of Christ was not before the Barthly Adam , how was the Creation made by him , or how can he be of the Nature of fallen Adam , and not Earthly and defiled , and is the Flesh of Christ Heavenly or Earthly , or is he Christ without his Flesh ? Agreeable to this , is the Doctrine of both G. W. and E. B. G. Whitehead doth severely blame John Horne and T. Moor , for saying , That Christ took upon him their Nature ; And though they did well distinguish betwixt our Nature , as in us it is corrupt by Sin [ since the Fall ] and as in Christ not corrupt and filthy ; yet by no means will he allow this Distinction , nor will he allow , That it 's one and the same Nature in the Gentiles , by which they did the things contained in the Law , and by which they broke the Law ; and he makes the sinful Nature and the pure Nature , to be two Natures ; this agrees with G. F's Doctrine afterwards quoted , That the Nature in us that doth the Will of God , is Christ the Seed , but the Nature in us that sinneth , is the Devil , the Serpent , the Lust ; so that there is nothing in Mens Bodies , but Christ , or God , and the Devil , the Serpent , Sin , and Lust ; there is no reasonable created Soul in Men , that at one time sinneth , and afterwards is cleansed from Sin , and obeyeth the Will of God , yet still remaining one and the same Nature , in Essence and Substance . Next let us hear E. Bur. in his Collection , p. 301. Thou sayest , in that Answer , that Christ ascended to the Right Hand of the Father in your Nature . Mark now thy Nature and your Nature , who are one with thee , is sinful and wicked , and of the Devil , for so are all Liers , and it is Blasphemy to say , sinful , wicked , devillish Nature , such as John Bunnion's is , and his Fellows , is at the Right Hand of God in Heaven . Oh Horrible ! Again , he saith , p. 306. That Christ ascended into Heaven in our Nature , viz. in his Nature , and they that are one with him , and he and they are proved to be in corrupt Nature , as they will confess it : O what Wickedness is it to hold forth , That Christ is at the Right Hand of God in sinful Nature , as his Words hold forth from his own Mouth . Note , His Opponent did not say , sinful Nature , but our Nature : But seeing E. B. makes them both one , that it cannot be our Nature that Christ hath in Heaven , except it be sinful Nature : This is to make Sin to be essential to our Nature , which is a most vile and gross Heresie , and agrees with that above mentioned , of G.F. and G. W. That there are but two Natures in Man's Body , the one that is divine , and of God's Essence , that neither doth nor can sin ; the other of the Devil , that sinneth and can do no good : So there is no Soul left in Man , that is neither God nor the Devil , nor any Part of either by these Mens Doctrine . But what doth G. W. and his Brethren then say to W. Penn , in his Primitive Christianity , where he saith , p. 85. That we do , we bless God , religiously believe and confess , to the Glory of God the Father , and the Honour of his dear and beloved Son , that Jesus Christ took our Nature upon him , and was like unto us in all things , Sin excepted ? And p. 87. We say , that he then overcame our common Enemy , foiled him in the open Field [ viz. at his Death ] and in our Nature triumphed over him that had overcome and triumphed over it , in our Forefather Adam , and his Posterity ; and that as truly as Christ overcame him in our Nature in his own Person , &c. But possibly , some will say , W. P. by our Nature , did mean the Quakers Nature , which is not sinful ; but not the Priests Nature , which is sinful . But first , was not the Quakers Nature once sinful , as really as the Nature of other Men ? And doth no Sin cleave to the Nature of any Quaker at this Day ? But secondly , W. P. tells us , Our Nature , which Christ took , was that , over which our common Enemy had triumphed in our Forefather Adam , and his Posterity . Now , except the Quakers will say , They are none of Adam ' s Posterity , they must grant , that , according to W. P. Christ did take , not only the Nature of the Quakers , but the Nature of other Men , which hath been defiled by Sin , both in them and us . What shall we now say of the great Unity that the Teachers of the Quakers boast of , in Doctrine as well as in Spirit ? Whereas we see , that what W. P. owns , as a Part of his and his Brethrens Faith , and for which , he saith , They bless God : E. Burrough , who was owned as a Prophet among them and was in greater Repute and more deserving then , than ever W. P. was , or now is : E. B. hath past Sentence on it , That it is horrible Blasphemy : For if Christ took our Nature , and triumphed over the common Enemy in our Nature , surely he rose from the dead in our Nature , and ascended into Heaven in our Nature , which E. B. hath judged to be Blasphemy and Wickedness . Here I asked John Whiting , of which of these two Faiths he was , whether that of G. W. and E. B. who said , Christ was not in Heaven in our Nature ; or that of W. P. who said , Christ took our Nature , and triumphed in our Nature ? He replied , He was of the Faith of both : By which Answer he made himself very ridiculous , and obnoxious to the general Censure of the Auditory , who cried out against him , as at several other times , many cried out at his and his Brethrens Impertinencies and absurd Answers . After the same manner doth W. Penn labour to excuse and cloak his and his Brethrens vile Heresie , That he who died at Jerusalem , was not properly the Son of God , as is set down at the End of Truth and Innocency , recommended by G. W. And W. P. thinks he has fairly defended himself , by what he formerly said , viz. That he that laid down his Life , and suffered his Body to be crucified by the Jews , without the Gates of Jerusalem , is Christ , the only Son of the most High God. But to assert , the Body which suffered and died , was properly the entire Son of God ; this brings him more under the Charge of making him but a meer Man , than us , who acknowledge him to be one with the Father , and of a Nature eternal and immortal . But here are two Fallacies ; one is , He that laid down his Life , and suffered his Body to be crucified , is Christ , the only Son of the most High God : But , by this HE , he means only the Godhead , or the Word : This is the entire Christ by his Doctrine , and this HE suffered his Body to be crucified ; but how was it his Body ? Not as any Part of the intire Christ , but only as a Vail or Garment ; that is a Man's Garment , but is no Part of him . The other Fallacy is , that he would cast it upon his Opponents , that they held , The Body that suffered , was properly the entire Son of God , which were to make him but a meer Man. But none of his Opponents said , That that Body , without the Soul of the Manhood , and without the Godhead of the Word , was the entire Christ ; nor could it be so much as meer Man , without a Soul , even a created Soul belonging to it . Whether Christ's coming in the Flesh was a Figure . THE next thing I charge to be a vile Error in the Quakers Books , especially G. F. and G. W. That Christ's coming in the Flesh , and his Sufferings without us , in the Flesh , and his outward Flesh and Blood was a Figure , and But a Figure of Christ , and what he suffereth in us , and of his Blood shed in us . This being charged in Saul's Errand , That R. Hubberthorn , writ , That Christ's coming in the Flesh was but a Figure . It is answered , in Saul's Errand , in two several Places ; first , in p. 8. thus ; Christ , in his People , is the Substance of all Figures , Types and Shadows , fulfilling them in them , and setting them free from them ; but as he is held forth in the Scripture Letter without them , and in the Flesh without them , he is their Example or Figure , which is both one , that the same things must be fulfilled in them , that was in Christ Jesus , for which he quotes 1 Pet. 2. 21. 1 Pet. 4. 1. 1 Pet. 1. 15. Joh. 13. 15. Again , in Saul's Err. p. 14. Q. Whether Christ in the Flesh be a Figure or not , and if a Figure , how , and in what ? Ans . Christ is the Substance of all Figures , and his Flesh is a Figure , for every one passeth through the same way as he did , who comes to know Christ in the Flesh ; there must be a suffering with him , before there be a rejoycing with him : Christ is an Example for all to walk after , and if thou knewest what an Example is , thou wouldst know what a Figure is , To come up to the same Fulness . Note , Had R. Hubb . and G.F. taught , That Christ is our Example , and if by Example , they only meant to be our Example , to follow him in the Virtues of Love , Humility , Self-denial , Patience , Resignation , &c. none would have blamed them , but what they talk of his being such an Example , is but mainly to hide their vile Heresie : For first , saith G.F. Christ is an Example for all to walk after , to come up to the same Fulness : No sound Christian ever taught so , for the Apostles never taught , That they , or any other were , by following Christ's Example , to come up to the same Fulness ; but still spoke of the Measure , as with respect to all others . To come up to the same Fulness , is to come to be as much Christ as he was ; and according to VV. Penn , see his Preface to R. B's Collection , the Passage quoted in my third Narrative , p. 10. attested , &c. The VVork of Regeneration is a greater Mystery , than God manifest in the Flesh without us : And saith G.F. Christ , in his People , is the Substance of all Figures , Types , and Shadows , fulfilling them in them ; and his Flesh is a Figure . Now , that by Figure or Example , they meant , not only or indeed so much , that he is our Example in holy living and walking , which none ever found fault with , of any called Christians ; but that , as he was outwardly born , was crucified , had his Blood shed , was buried , rose and ascended ; so he is inwardly born , and has been crucified in the Quakers , and all other Saints , buried , risen , and ascended , and is King , Priest , and Prophet in them ; and G. VV's Light and Life , p. 44. Christ in them offers up himself in the Nature of a mediating Sacrifice , to appease the VVrath of God ; That not the outward Blood , that was outwardly shed , is the Blood of God , by which he purchased his Church , but God being a Spirit , his Blood , his inward and spiritual , as G.VV. hath expresly affirmed in his Light and Life , p. 44. And VV. P. in his Rejoinder to I. Faldo , p. 336 , 337. comparing Christ his dying as a Malefactor , by his Death to reconcile us to God , to what was to be accomplished in Man , saith , 'T is strange that should be reputed most misterious , which was the Introduction to the Mistery , and those Transactions counted most difficult , that were , by the divine VVisdom of God , ordained , as so many facile Representations of what was to be accomplished in Man , &c. And a little before , comparing the outward with the inward , in Relation to Christ , he saith , The History is made the greatest Mistery , which he blames in I. Faldo , for making Christ without us , a greater Mistery than Christ within us ; so that whether by Figure or Example , the Quakers mean the same thing , it is horribly offensive , that Christ without us , and what he did and suffered without us , is such an Example , as is to be wrought and accomplished in us by a greater Missery , so that the Work , or the thing wrought and effected , is greater and more excellent , t ; han the Example according to which it is wrought ; as the building some great Fabrick , the Example , Type , or Figure , according to which it is built , is made perhaps of Wood or Past-board , in a small Model ; whereas the Fabrick is great , and consisting of rich and very precious Materials : Thus they magnifie the Flesh and Blood of Christ within them , above his Death and Sacrifice without them , and well they may , if Christ's Flesh and Blood with in them be unerected and from all Eternity , and that Christ's material Blood on the Cross , was the Type of Christ's inward ward and spiritual Blood he had from all Eternity ; for the Word , Example , in this case , is fully as offensive as Figure , and can signifie no other than Figure ; for if there be any such inward and spiritual Blood of Christ , and Flesh that he had from all Eternity , and if the material Blood be the Example of it , and Christ's material Flesh the Example of that Heavenly increated Flesh : It must needs be granted , that the thing exemplified , is greater than the Example of it , in the case , and the shedding of that Heavenly Blood which Christ had from all Eternity , and which was shed in Adam when he sinned , is more excellent than the shedding of that material Blood which is but its Figure , according to them . But now let us hear how G.VV. first defends himself , and next VV. P. in his Truth and Inn. p. 53. He gives a lame Quotation , objected against him , out of his Truth defending the Quakers : Christ's coming in the Flesh was but a Figure , i. e. a Figure or Type of the inward Christ , or Light within : Here is a lame Quotation , which at full is thus , Truth defend . p. 21. Did R. Hubberth . well in writing , That Christ's coming in the Flesh was but a Figure ? Ans . Could Christ have been said to have been transfigured , if his coming in the Flesh had not been a Figure or Example , till his Glory was revealed ? And hast thou not read , That he was the express Figure of his Father's Substance , instead of which , it is translated , he is the express Image , &c. Note , This Quotation was objected in a late printed Sheer , called An Account from Colchester : And a pretended Answer was given to it in another printed Paper , signed by seven Quakers of Colchester : And the like Answer is given by G.VV. in his Truth and Innocency , p. 53. They abuse me still in this ( saith he ) it was none of my Assertion , That Christ's coming in the Flesh , was but a Figure : I positively disown these Words , as a downright Forgery put upon me . Ans . How can he in Conscience disown these Words , and charge them to be a downright Forgery put upon him , when in his Answer to that Charge against R. Hubb . he finds no Fault with the Phrase , But a Figure , but brings two Places of Scripture to justifie it , which are most ignorantly and impertinently brought to prove it ? Why did he not then except against the Word , But a Figure ? But instead of excepting against it , he brings two Scriptures to prove the Assertion alledged against R. Hubb . the one is , That Christ was said to have been transfigured ; which , because it sounded in English like his being made a Figure , therefore , in his great Ignorance of the Word Transfigured , as well as of the Sense intended , he thought it was a good Proof , that Christ , as he came in the Flesh , was but a Figure ; but transfigured there signifies nothing other but transformed ; the Greek Word has no Relation , either to Figure or Example , for it is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , i.e. Metamorphosed , a Word some use in English ; and what that Transfiguration was , Matthew tells us , Mat. 17. 2. that His Face did shine as the Sun , and his Raiment was white as the Light : Now what Relation has this , either to Figure or Example , in that Sense for which G.W. brought it to prove R. Hubb's Saying , Christ's coming in the Flesh , was but a Figure ? Of what was Christ's Transfiguration a Figure ? Or how was it our Example to follow ? But that G.W. meant not an Example of Imitation , but a Type or Figure that was to vanish or be laid aside , is evident from his own Words ; Could Christ have been said to have been transfigured , if his coming in the Flesh had not been a Figure or Example , till his Glory was revealed ? Thus we see how long G.W. thought that Christ's coming in the Flesh was to continue a Figure , viz. until his Glory should be revealed ; to wir , by his inward coming into the Hearts of the Disciples , which was the Substance of that Figure ; for thus G.W. and his Brethren argue for the Disuse of outward Baptism and the Supper ; they were but Figures of the inward Substance , and were to continue but until that was revealed ; so here Christ's coming in the Flesh , was but a Figure till his Glory was revealed : So whether G.W. makes it Figure or Example , he tells us how long it was to be our Figure or Example , till his Glory was revealed . But taking Example , for an Example that we ought to follow , in all holy living and walking , we shall find the Scriptures set him forth for our Example after his Glory was revealed , 1 Pet. 2. 21. Because Christ also suffered for us , leaving us an Example , that ye should follow his Steps : this was after his Glory was revealed in and among the Believers . And as the Quakers Reason why they cast off outward Baptism and the Supper is , because the Substance is revealed in them , whereof they were Figures ; so for the same reason , they think Christ's Death at Jerusalem is not to be minded nor preached , because it was a Figure , Christ in his People is the Substance of all Figures : And his Flesh is a Figure : Here Figure in both Places hath the same Signification : He doth not say , Christ without his People , but Christ in his People is the Substance of all Figures . And as a Proof of this , a Quotation was brought against the Quakers out of one of their ancient Books , called , The Doctrine of Perfection vindicated ; So when you come to know this [ to wit , the Operation of Christ , or the Light within ] you will cease remembring his Death at Jerusalem , and will come to see how he hath been crucified in you , and what it is that hath crucified him . Thus we see , how , according to him , Christ's Death at Jerusalem being but a Figure of Christ crucified within the Substance ; the Use and Remembrance of it ceaseth . Is not this horrid Blasphemy ? Why have they not all this time retracted this ? To this G.W. answers , Truth and Inn. p. 55. I do 〈◊〉 believe this to be justly or impartially quoted , let them produce it at large , and whose 〈◊〉 it is . But the Book being produced , it did appear to be justly and impartially ●●ored , and the Book to be a Quakers Book , and printed for R. VVilson , the Quakers Bookseller at that time ; the Author's Name is John VVhitehouse , who shews how , and by whom he was brought over to Quakerism . But let us see , how that other Place of Scripture , brought by G.W. to prove R.H. his Assertion , That Christs coming in the Flesh is but a Figure , will clear him , or rather indeed render him guilty of the same Error with R.H. the Place is most impertinently quoted by G.W. to prove , That Christ's coming in the Flesh , was either a Figure or Example for us to follow , as he would have us to understand him ; That by Christ's coming in the Flesh , his being a Figure , that is , an Example of our lmitation , Truth and Inn. p. 24 , 25. Heb. 1. 3. Christ is there called , The Brigthness of his ( viz. God ' s ) Glory , and the Express Image of his Person ; and this G.W. brought to confirm R. H's Assertion , telling us , from his pretended great Learning , that he is the express Figure ; instead of which , he saith , it is translated , express Image . And he is at great Pains to shew , that Type or Figure sometimes points at a thing to come , sometimes it denotes a present Example , and that either of Imitation , or of Warning and Caution : But how can he make it appear , That by the Description given of Christ , Heb. 1. 3. his being the express Image of his ( viz. the Father's ) Person , that Christ is there set forth to be our Example , either for Imitation or Caution , for he is not there said to be our Example or Image , but the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , ( as it is in the Greek ) of the Father's Person or Hypostasis : But the Word Character , can no wise justly here be understood to be an Example of our Imitation ; and C.VV. was but idle , to render it Figure , to quadrate with R. H's Assertion , and to make the ignorant think he could mend the Translation , but his now turning it to Example , makes it Blasphemy , as to say , The Son is an Example of Imitation or Caution for the Father to follow ; it had been more agreeable to have said , The Father is an Example of the Son , for the Son to follow , than to say , The Son is an Example for the Father to follow , seeing Christ said , I can do nothing of my self , for what I see the Father do , that do I. But to give an Instance what an Ambidexter G.W. is , in twisting and twining and bending the Scripture . In his Antidote , p. 191. he saith , That He spoke for Christ's Divinity , as he was the Brightness of the Father's Glory , and the express Image of his divine Substance , in Answer to T. Danson . Here he forsaketh his former Translation , which was Figure , and taketh the Translation in our English Bible , which is Image . But how will this prove the Divinity of Christ , so as to be one Substance with the Father , if the express Image signifie our Example of Imitation , as G.W. doth argue in his Truth and Innocency ? His being an Example of our Imitation , is no sufficient Argument to prove his being one Substance with the Father ; for the Socinians will grant him to be a very excellent Example of our Imitation , yet this is no sufficient Argument to convince them , That he is one Substance with the Father , from his being an Example of Imitation . Is it not plain , from all this shuffling and shifting , that G.W. rather than he will confess his former Errors , will wrong his own Conscience , and bring the most nonsensical Excuses that ever were heard of , to defend his Infallibility , than give Glory to God by a plain and free Confession of his Errors ? Next let us hear G. W's Defence of that Saying of W. P's ; One outward thing cannot be the proper Figure or Representation of another ; the outward Lamb shews forth the inward Lamb. He labours to vindicate W. P's Saying , by thus arguing , How will these Men ( saith he ) prove that the outward Paschal Lamb was the proper Figure or Representation of Christ's outward Person ? Pray what proper Resemblance had they ? Was not rather the Lamb , in respect of its Innocency , a proper Figure of Christ's Innocency , as the Lamb of God once offered for Sin ? I answer , And was not the Lamb's Innocency an outward thing , i.e. without Men , and also Christ's Innocency , as he lived and walked among Men , and was not his outward Person innocent ? But had not G.W. been extreamly blind and ignorant , he had never argued nor asked so foolishly , what proper Resemblance had they , viz. the Paschal Lamb , and Christ's outward Person ; for the Generality of Christians know , that as by God's Appointment , the Paschal Lamb and Sacrifices , were proper Types and Figures of Christ's outward Person , as he was to be slain for the Sins of the World ; so the Resemblance was not only in Innocency , but in many other Respects ; the Lamb was to be killed , so was Christ ; the Lamb was to be without Blemish , so was Christ ; the Lamb was to be of the Flock , so was Christ to be of his Brethren ; the Blood of the Lamb , sprinkled on the Door-posts and Lintels of the Israelites , saved them from the Wrath of the destroying Angel , so the Blood of Christ , that was outwardly shed , applyed by Faith , saveth true Believers from Wrath ; the Lamb was to be eaten wholly , so we are to receive Christ wholly , in all his Offices : These and many other Resemblances there are betwixt the Paschal Lamb and Christ , known in general to Christians , yea , to many Children , which yet G.W. here declares himself to seem wholly ignorant of . Godwin , in his Book called Moses and Aaron , numbers at least twelve Particulars of Resemblance , betwixt the Paschal Lamb and Christ without us , and yet this G.W. more like a Heathen than a Christian , queries , Pray what proper Resemblance had they ? But to return his Question , Pray what proper Resemblance had the Paschal Lamb to the inward Blood Christ , which , G.W. saith , is the Life and Light and Spirit of God within , and the Holy Ghost ? Was ever the Holy Ghost , or the Godhead slain in Men ? Or is there an inward spiritual Blood of Christ slain in Men , that is not the Godhead ? But we shall come anon to treat more fully of this : And how is that fulfilled in Christ within , A Bone of him shall not be broken ? Whether Christ without us , as he died and rose again , is the Object of Faith , &c. G.VV. Truth and Inn. p. 54. defends a most Antichristian Saying of his in his Light and Life , and to cloak it the more , he gives the Quotation lame . The Quakers at Colchester , in their late printed Paper , called , Some Account , gives it more fully : But in the Book , Light and Life , p. 38. it is thus ; Bapt. Now the Quakers would be so far from directing Men to go to the material Temple , that they make it but a vain thing to look to Jerusalem , to the Antitype of that Temple , viz. to Jesus , as he was there crucified , or to that Blood that was there shed for Justification . His Answer is , The Quakers see no need of directing Men to the Type for the Antitype ; viz. neither to the outward Temple , nor yet to Jerusalem , either to Jesus Christ or his Blood , knowing that neither the Righteousness of Faith , nor the Word of it , does so direct , Rom 10. And is it the Baptists Doctrine to direct Men to the material Temple and Jerusalem , the Type for the Antitype ? What Nonsense and Darkness is this ? And where do the Scriptures say , That the Blood was there shed for Justification , and that Men must be directed to Jerusalem , whereas that Blood shed , is not in being ? p. 40. But the true Apostles directed them to the Light , which was so much opposed by the Baptists , to walk in the Light , for the Blood of Christ to cleanse them from all Sin. Now let us hear his Defence , Truth and Inn. p. 54. I ask these Men ( saith he ) where the Scripture doth so direct Men to go to the outward Temple at Jerusalem for Jesus Christ ? Nay , doth it not contrarywise direct them ? See plain Scripture , Deut. 30. 12 , 13 , 14. Rom. 10. 6 , 7 , 8. The same Answer in effect , but in more Words , quoting at full length , Deut. 30. 12 , 13 , 14. and Rom. 10. 6 , 7 , 8. we find in that called , Some Account from Colchester , signed by seven Quakers there ( but likely enough to have been drawn up by G.W. himself , though whether it was or not , is not material to the case ) and on the Margin they say , Must they then go on Pilgrimage ? Note , This is a most shameful Evasion to cloak their vile Heresie , of which , yet to this very Day , G. W. hath not plainly cleared himself , nor ever can , till he retract this and his many other Errors . Can it be supposed , that W. Burnet , who was the Baptist that thus objected against the Quakers , was for having the Quakers or any others , go on Pilgrimage , or on Feet to Jerusalem for Jesus Christ or his Blood ? G.W. knoweth , in his Conscience , the contrary ; yea , in the Lines immediately going before the Quotation , W. Burnet clears the matter , That he was not for having People go on Pilgrimage to Jerusalem , either for Christ or to Christ . W. Burnet , in his Capital Principles , p. 24. Israel of old ( he saith ) were commanded to go up to the literal Temple at Jerusalem to worship , but now God's Worshippers may worship him , each one in his Respective Place . Yea , G.W. in his Light and Life , takes that to be W. Burnet's Sense , That Christ was to be sought and found at such a Distance by Faith , and yet he still objects against Christ sought at a Distance without us , even by Faith , as in Heaven above the Clouds , or as he suffered at Jerusalem : I ask ( saith he ) if the Object or Foundation of the Faith he divided from the Faith ? From which reasoning , it is evident he is against Christ , as without us , as at a distance , either as he suffered at Jerusalem , or as he is now in Heaven , to be the Object of our Faith. And whereas , in that called Some Account from Colchester , they quote Rom. 10. 6 , 7 , 8. and set down the Words at full Length , why do they not quote and set down the Words in p. 9 , 10. That if thou shall confess with thy Mouth , the Lord Jesus , and believe in thine Heart , that God hath raised him from the dead , thou shalt be saved . By all the things that have been objected against G.W. to move him to give some confession of his Faith in the Man Christ , as he suffered and rose again without us , and is now in Heaven without us , in that very created Nature of the Soul and Body of Man he had on Earth , as in Union with the eternal Word , and that as such , he is the great Object of our Faith , for Remission of Sin , yet he cannot be drawn to it , which still shews he remains in his vile Antichristian Doctrine . As to his seeming Confession to Christ without , in his Supplement to the Switch , we shall see ere long in its Place . In his Truth and Inn. p. 54. he seeks to excuse W. P's Saying , in his Quakerism a new Nick-name , p. 6. Faith in Christ's outward Manifestation , has been a deadly Poison these later Ages has been infected with . G. W's Defence is , 'T is making Faith in the History thereof , that is in Opposition to his Power and Work in the Soul , and to Godly living , as is evident in the Place quoted . But did I. Faldo , W. P's Opponent , make Faith in Christ's outward Manifestation , in Opposition to his Power and Work in the Soul ? Nay surely ; nor did any other of their Opponents teach such Doctrine . But this is the common way of G.W. and his Brethren , to cloak their own vile Errors , they will misrepresent their Opponents Principles : It 's sufficiently evident , from G. W's Doctrine , that he has all along opposed Faith in Christ's outward Manifestation , as necessary to Salvation , and it will yet further appear . Again , he excuses W. P's Saying , Truth and Inn. p. 55. And since they believe that outward Appearance [ i.e. of Jesus at Jerusalem ] they need not preach what is to be main ; by telling us , he means , They need not always preach it where it is believed ; and comesseth all true Quakers own that visible Appearance of Christ . Note , this is an evidenly apparent Strain , W. P's Reason why the Quakers need not preach Christ's outward Appearance , as he suffered Death was , that it was not to be again , which makes it unnecessary to be preached . But this Liberty of G.W. and I. Weyeth , and others , of adding and taking away material Words , is so intolerable , where the plain Sense will bear no such Addition , nor taking away , that at this rate nothing so false , but shall be made to seem true . But why need they not always to preach it ? Suppose the Quakers believe it , do not they preach always the Light within , and do not the Quakers generally believe it , and divers other Principles they prosess ? How shall their Children have the Faith of it without preaching ? Doth the Light within so reach it , that they have it without preaching ? But how do they believe it ? Only histostically : It is no necessary Article of their Faith to be preached or believed to Salvation , the Light within is sufficient to Salvation without any thing else . The like Fallacy and Sophistry he useth to excuse W. Shewen's Saying , Not to Jesus , the Son of Abraham , David , and Mary , but to God the Father , all Worship , Honour and Glory is to be given . But to hide his Fallacy , he gives a lame Quotation . The Words being , Not to Jesus , the Son of Abraham , David , and Mary , nor to Saint nor Angel , but to God the Father . he saith , he knows his Intent was , Not to Jesus only , as the Son of Abraham : But then if the Word Only must be added , as explanatory to one Part of the Sentence , it must be added to the other Part of the same Sentence and so it will run thus , Not to Jesus the Son of Abraham , David , Mary , nor to Saint and Angel only , but to God the Father all Worship , &c. Is not this a fair Excuse , by which , to cover their vile Heresie , they will run into Popish Idolatry , they are not to give Worship to Saints and Angels only , but to God. Note , G.W. writes this contrary to what he knoweth in his Conscience to be true , for he was present at that Meeting in London , 1678. where W.S. and others blamed me for praying to Jesus Christ , in the Passage above quoted in my Book , called The Way cast up , &c. Beside , it was no Part of the Controversie betwixt the Quakers and the Church of England or Dissenters , That Christ was to be prayed to only as the Son of Abraham . But is G.W. now in good earnest , in thus excusing W.S. ? Is he for giving divine Worship to Jesus the Son of Abraham , David , and Mary , in any respect , seeing he hath denied that the true Jesus did consist of a Body of Flesh and Bone , or that he hath a created Soul and Body , as above quoted . But let us once more hear how he excuseth that Passage of W. Penn , his Address to Protestants , p. 119. Let us but soberly consider what Christ is , and we shall the better know whether moral Men are to be reckoned Christians ; what is Christ but Meekness , Justice , Mercy , Patience , Charity , and Virtue in Perfection ? G.W. saith , W.P. did not design thereby to lessen the Power or Dignity of Christ , who is the Author of these Virtues , no more than the Apostles did in saying , He ( Christ ) is made of God unto us , Wisdom , Righteousness , Sanctification , and Redemption ( spoken in the Abstract ) and the Prophet saying , God is my Light and my Salvation , though God and Christ also be the Author of Redemption and Salvation . This is also a sophistical Evasion ; when Paul said , Christ was made of God unto us , Wisdom , Righteousness , Sanctification , and Redemption ; he meant not the Light within , as it is in meer moral Heathens , but so W.P. meant 〈◊〉 but Paul did really mean Jesus of Nazareth , who is both God and Man , the Word made Flesh , as is clear from the foregoing Words , even Christ crucified , as being the Author of those Graces , Blessings , and Virtues , unto all sincere Believers in him , by bestowing on them his holy Spirit , to indue them with Wisdom and Sanctification , and freely imputing his Righteousness that he wrought in his own Person without them , for their Justification and Redemption : Also David , in calling the Lord his Light and Salvation , had a Respect to God in Christ , even the Man Christ , who was to come out of his Loins , as the Object of his Faith for Redemption and Salvation . But the whole Tendency of W. P's Discourse in that Passage , and in other Passages , going before and following , is to perswade that Men are Christians , if they have these moral Virtues , without Faith in Christ , as he was outwardly crucified ; for , in the Enumeration of these Virtues , he has not the least Word of Faith in Christ crucified , as necessary to Christianity , but pleads for a false Notion of the Christian Faith , p. 118. At he that believes in Christ , believes in God , so he that believes in God , believes in Christ : Thus , making Faith in Christ to be nothing else but a Belief in God , as a Creator , without any Respect to Christ crucified And p. 119. a little after that scandalous Passage above quoted , he saith , Christians ought to be distinguished by their Likeness to Christ , and not their Notions of Christ ; which is likewise scandalous , as imply● That Men may be like Christ , without true Notions of him and Faith in him 〈◊〉 , Christ Jesus of Nazareth , that died and rose again ; yea , he pleads , p. 118. That a meer just Man ought not to be excluded the Communion of Christians , and that to exclude him , is partial and cruel . And at this rate , professed Infidel Jews and Mahumetans , if they be but meer just Men , are to be received into Christian Society as good Christians , indeed good enough to be Members of the Quakers Church . But now let us see how the following scandalous Passages , quoted out of G. VV's own Books , are defended by the Colchester Quakers , in that they call Some Account from Colchester . Some Account from Colchester , p. 11. When you tell us you have Faith in Christ , do you mean Christ , whose Person is now ascended into Heaven above the Clouds , or do you mean only a Christ within you ? Ans . ( saith G.VV. ) Here thou would make two Christs , a Christ whose Person is above the Clouds , and a Christ within ; but how provest thou two such Christs ? VVe have Faith in that Christ that descended from the Father , who is the same that ascended far above all Heavens ; and this Christ we witness in us , who is not divided . Note , in their Vindication of this Passage they say , This Answer appears pertinent to detect and reprehend an impertinent and foolish Question , which , whether it does not imply two Christs , let the serious judge , from the natural Import and Sense of the Question in the disjunctive Part of it ; or do you only mean a Christ within you ? Here their pretended Grammatical Skill of the Term disjunctive , fails them . To ask the Question disjunctively , implies no more two Christs , than it implies two George VVhiteheads , to ask , Is George VVhitehead a Londoner born , or a North Country Man , born in the North of England ; this doth not imply two G. Whiteheads : But if one should say , George Whitehead was born , in the North of England some 64 Years ago , and since that , was born in London ; this would import two G. Whiteheads very plainly : And no less indeed do the Quakers wild Notions that many of them have printed , even the Men of great Note among them , import not only two Christs , but many Christs , even thousands ; and they have no way to extricate themselves of this Difficulty , but sophistical Evasions ; for if ye ask them , Was that the true Christ who was born at Bethlehem , of a Virgin called Mary , above 1600 Years ago , and do they believe in that Christ ? They will tell you yea ; but they have this sophistical Sense , that he was the Light within , that Person that was outwardly born , who is by a Metonimy called Christ , the thing containing , for the thing contained : See W. Penn's Rejoinder , p. 304 , 305. But that that outward Person was properly the Son of God , we utterly deny , said W.P. as above quoted : But the most true and proper Christ , is the Christ born in them , and growing up in them from a holy thing or Seed , to a Child born , and then to the Mighty God ; which three Steps are orderly set down by W.B. in his printed Collection , p. 291. See third narrative , p. 37. And he tells who is the Virgin in whom this Child is born ; not the Virgin Mary , but every Quaker , who is converted to the Light within : And because this Child is not born in them all at once , but at different times , as they witness the Work of Regeneration , and as many as come to witness Regeneration , as many regenerated Persons there are in the World , as many times Christ is born ; and though they say , Christ is one in all , and would defend their so saying by Scripture , yet they mean not as the Scripture means ; for Christ , as he is God , is the same in all and as he dwells in all the faithful by his Spirit and by Faith , yet not so as that Christ is really and truly begotten and born in regenerate Persons without any Alle●●●y as they hold ; for they make Christ , as both without the Figure and All●●●●● and Christ as born within . &c. the Substance ; and on Supposition , that the● 〈◊〉 so many real Births of Christ , it is impossible they could be one Christ , otherwise than specifically one , though consisting of many Individuals , as many Individuals of Men are called Man , but they are not one numerical Man , no more can Christ be one numerical Christ , but many , if he were really begotten and born in many as they say he is : It 's true , the Scripture speaks of Christ being formed in Believers , but this is a metaphorical Expression , and allegory , even as the Image of Caesar on Gold or Silver , is called Caesar ; so the true lively Image of Christ , is called Christ , in true Believers , and that is the meaning of Christ formed in Believers , so that if they would be content with the allegorical Sense of the Word , Christ formed within , begotten and born within , as sound and sober Christians understand it , none would blame them ; and that they laid no more Stress upon it than they should , but the contrary they do , so as to make the Christ thus born within , the greater Reality and Mystery , than Christ born without , and to make that inward Birth , to have no Dependence on Christ as born without us , and as he died for our Sins , and rose and ascended into Heaven , in the true intire Nature of Man , consisting of a created Soul and Body , and so as to witness the inward Work of Regeneration , to be without Faith in Christ , as without ; and without all special Illumination and Operation of the Holy Ghost , as given only to Believers in Christ crucified : And to assert , That meer just Men , and moral Heathens , who have no Faith in Christ as outwardly crucified , to be as truly regenerate as the most sincere Believers ; all this is really Antichristian . And whether G. W's following Discourse , in his He-goats Horn , p. 8 , 9. compared with the like Passages in G. F's G.M. and elsewhere , I leave to intelligent Christians to consider , doth not really import many Christs really distinct , as really as the Persons are , in whom they say Christ is born , raised up , &c. Whether the Seed of God , in Believers , be Christ , and the Seed of the Woman , and the Seed promised to Abraham and David . G.W. He-goats Horn , p. 8. As to our saying , That the Seed of God , which is Christ , where-ever he is known in such a low Measure as a Seed that suffers , and is burdened in Man by Corruption , there he desires to be free from the Burden of Sin , and always to do his Father's Will , and this Seed the Power reaches to , where it is begotten , and in the Power it arises in them that believe in the Light for their Redemption . They have shewed themselves ignorant of the Seed of God , which the Promise is to , and that they never knew the Work of that Power which reaches the Seed , as also they are ignorant of the Scriptures , for it is written , Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive Power , and Riches , and Wisdom , and Strength , and Honour , and Glory , and Blessing , [ Note , this he understands of the Seed within , to be the Lamb slain , who hath redeemed Men by his Blood , to wit , the Blood of the Seed within , is G.F. calls it . ] Rev. 5. 12. So that they might as well hate scoft at the Angels of God was spoke these Words , as at us , [ But the Angels spoke it not of a Seed within that needed Salvation or Redemption , but of the Man Christ without , as he was outwardly slain and rose again ] and have said , that the Power that reacheth to the Seed is Christ , and then Christ is worthy to receive Christ ; as also they have done in their Scorn , in p. 63. wherein they have shewed their gross Ignorance of the several Manifestations of Christ the Seed in his People , who are of the Seed of Abraham , which Christ took upon him to redeem his own , and to bring to his own Power and Promise which he receives of the Father . See again in another Book of G.W. &c. called , A brief Discovery of the dangerous Principles of John Horn , &c. p. 21. A Quotation being taken out of J. Nailer's Love to the Lost , That the Seed to which the Promise was made , and which few know , is a certain Seed or Principle in Man , desiring to follow after God , and to be free from Sin. Reply , Here you are seen to be ignorant of the Seed of God , and Enemies to it in his People , which Seed is Christ , and where-ever he is known in such a low Measure as a Seed that suffers , and is burdened in Man by Corruption , there he desires to be free from the Burden of Sin , and always to do his Father's Will ; and this Seed the Power reaches to where it is begotten , and in the Power it arises in them that believe in the Light for their Redemption , and the Apostle travelled again for the Galatians , until Christ was formed in them , who first is known as one without Form or Comeliness , and so the Seed of God suffers in some , and in others it reigns , and is known to be Prince of Peace : And this is no Mistery of Deceit ( as you say ) but a Mistery that hath discovered your Deceit , who know not the Seed of the Kingdom , nor the Power wherein it rises : And have you never known what Christ is without the Camp ? But before you , who are Neglecters of Christ , and Abusers of his Truth , can know the Seed of God , and what it is in you , you must come to the Light which condemns you for your Deceits and Lies , with which you have abused the Truth , and then learn to know what and where the Grave is which Christ hath made with the wicked . Comformable to this R. Hub. said in He-goats Horn broken , p. 62. Christ the Seed made his Grave in the wicked , and in the rich in his Death , and out of that Grave , with his Body , riseth into everlasting Life ; and if thou canst receive it , thou mayest be satisfied . Again , in He-goats Horn , p. 50. G.W. quotes I. Horn thus . J. Horn saith , The Prophet Isaiah doth not witness , That in them a Child was born , and in them a Son was given . G.W. answers , Christ was the first-born in many Brethren , Rom. 8. 29. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and was not Isaiah one of these Brethren , who also had been as with Child , Isa . 26. 17. Jer. 30. 6. Note , Thus by G.W. and R.H. we have an Account of Christ a Seed , buried in the wicked , suffering without the Camp , desiring to be freed from Sin , and to do the Will of the Father , suffering in some , but reigning in others , begotten and born in them , raised in them , the which Seed is reached to by the Power which taketh hold of it , even the Seed of Abraham ; and thus the chief Prophecies in the old Testament , concerning Christ's Birth of the Virgin , his Death , Burial , Resurrection ; G.W. hath applied to the Birth of the Seed within , and which he saith , suffers in some , and reigns in others , and so is neither begotten nor born in some , but is begotten and born in others : But how this can be understood all of one and the same numerical Seed or Christ , is fully as hard , as to understand how all Men in the World , both good and bad , are one numerical and individual Man : Nay , it is much harder ; for G. F. saith , The Seed that spoke in him , and said he was Christ , was not a Creature ; he spoke it not as a Creature , but out of and beyond all Creatures . Now , that any thing can be begotten and born in time , yea , daily and hourly , as this Seed is daily begetting in some , and begotten and born in others , and yet not be a Creature , is not intelligible to Mens Understanding by the highest Illumination they are capable of . Whether was Christ incarnate more than once , or is he daily incarnate , &c. NOTE . I produced a Quotation out of E. Burrough , To prove that Christ is daily incarnate , and incarnating in Men , as oft as Men are regenerated or regenerating ; the which ( though it was read in the Beginning of the third Meeting ) because of its Affinity with what goes before on this Head , I shall here insert . In E. B's Works , p. 29. a Question being proposed to the Quakers by Philip Bennet , Whether was the Word made Flesh , or the Son of God made of a Woman , more or oftner than once ? After some Railing going before , he thus answers ; Thou dost not know , nor canst not witness the Word to be made Flesh once , but art one of the Antichrists and Deceivers which John speaks of , that are entred into the World , which cannot confess Jesus Christ come in the Flesh , and therefore thou queriest whether the Word was made Flesh any more or oftner than once ? Which Query comes from thy dark polluted Mind , who is out of the Light. And p. 30. And when thou canst witness the Word to be made Flesh once , then thou wilt know whether the Son of God was made of a Woman , any more or oftner than once : But thou art the Dragon that would devour the Man-child which the Woman has brought forth , who shall rule all Nations with a Rod of Iron . Note , some Expositors on the Book of the Revelation , have , by the Woman , understood the Church , and by the Man-child , the Life of Christ , or Christ formed in true Belidvers , by way of Allegory and Metaphor only , as is above noted ; but they never understood , that Christ , strictly speaking , without-all Allegory or Metaphor , was ever begotten or born in time but once , or was ever made of a Woman but once , viz. when he was conceived by the Holy Ghost in the Womb of the Virgin , and born of her : But the chief Teachers among the Quakers , such as G. F. G. W. and W. P. and E. B. hath made Christ's Birth of the Virgin Mary , and his Death , and Sufferings , and Blood shed without them , the Type , and Allegory , and Christ born within , crucified within them , risen and ascended within them , the Reallity and greatest Mystery , as is above proved . Like to this is another Passage in G. Whiteheads Jacob found in a desert Land , p. 6 , 7. And in Simplicity I was made to wait upon God , and to endure the Cross of Christ , though for a Time and Times , the Enmity of the wicked one was strong against me within and without , seeking to devour that Seed , which , thro' the Word of the Lord , was begotten in me . And the Misteries of God and his Kingdom was revealed in me , who brought me out of Darkness through the Wilderness where the Man-child was preserved , for a Time and Times , and half a Time , from the Wrath of the Dragon who would have slain the Man-child : But now is he arisen in his Power and Zeal , and the Prince of the World is cast out , and he is born which is the everlasting Counseller , the Prince of Peace [ quoting in the Margin Isa . 9. 6. ] who hath sent War , and the Fire , and the Sword into the Earth . Note , This I find was generally their manner of preaching and writing , both at their first Appearance and long after , to tell People that Christ was begotten in them , born in them , crucified , dead and buried , risen and ascended into Heaven within them ; and that every one , in order to eternal Salvation , must know Christ thus begotten and born in them , crucified , dead , buried , risen and ascended ; and this inward Conception and Birth of Christ , &c. they made the greatest Mistery and Reallity , whereof Christ , as born without in the Flesh , was the Figure , and a facile Representation ( to use W. P's Phrase in the case ) of what is to be transacted in us , thus they did represent the inward Work of Regeneration to be a greater Mistery than God manifest in the Flesh , viz. in that Body of Flesh that was born at Bethlehem , as W. P. hath expresly affirmed , as is above quoted : And by this high sublime Doctrine , which they gave forth to be given them by immediate Revelation from Heaven ( though it was no other but what G. F. had from some old Ranters and Familists ; who had it long before him . ) They did mightily magnifie themselves above all others , and cried out against all others , as dark ignorant Sots , Deceivers and Antichrists , who denied Christ come in the Flesh , because they did not receive this wild Notion they had got from Ranters and Familists , That Christ was born , crucified , dead , buried , risen and ascended in them ; and though while I was with them , I was not altogether ignorant that they had such Phrases and Methods of Speech as I had read in some of their Books , yet I thought they understood it only by way of Allegory and Metaphor , as Origen , Augustine , &c. Some others of the Fathers , both Greek and Latine , used the like allegorical Phrases , and which I my self have partly used in some of my former Books , only by way of Allegory and Metaphor : But I appeal to all , who shall but impartially consider what I have above quoted out of their Books , whether they will not judge and say , that these Teachers of the Quakers , whose Words I have quoted , plainly import quite another thing than an allegorical Birth , Crucifixion and Resurrection of Christ in them , even that which is real , without an Allegory , Metaphor , or Figure ; for as G. F. said , in Saul's Errand , Christ's Flesh is a Figure , and Christ in his People is the Substance of all Figures ; and consequently of that Figure also . Besides , if they meant it only by way of Allegory and Metaphor , why did they cry out against all others as Antichrists , Deceivers , blind and dark Sots , who did not receive this their Notion , but opposed it as antichristian ? But if they had plainly told , that they meant it not otherwise but by way of Allegory and Metaphor , I know none that would have opposed them in that case . But as in some other things , after the Quakers have made a great Compass , and yet return to say the same with others , from whom they differed so in this very thing , after all that G.W. as much as any , had formerly contended for Christ begotten and both within , suffering within , his Blood shed within , being a Sacrifice within Men , to appease the Wrath of God , and giving much more to Christ thus born within , suffering within , his Blood shed within , than to Christ born without , this Blood shed without , being a Type of his Blood shed within : Yet in his Judgment fixed , printed 1682. which was 26. Years after his Jacob found in a desert Land , printed 1656. above quoted , he turns all that he had formerly writ and contended for , ( Christ born within , suffering within , desiring to be freed from Sin ) into an Elegancy of Speech , the Property and Effect being put for the Cause [ which is no more , nor other than what all Christian Teachers and Expositors affirm : ] For this hear what he saith in answer to his Opponent , Jeffery Bullock , who charged the Quakers with false Doctrine , in saying , That God's Appearance is to his Son Jesus Christs ▪ and for the begetting and bringing him forth in the Sons and Daughters of Men , the which Doctrine , said J. B. I do deny . To this , G.W. after some foregoing Words , answereth , in his Judgment fixed , p. 330. This innocent Birth , which God by his Spirit brings forth in the Sons and Daughters of Men , who truly believe , relate to them and their Souls , as begotten and born of the immortal Seed by the living Word , so that , this Birth is not Christ Jesus [ What say the Quaker Zealots to this flat Denial of his own and his Brethrens former Doctrine , and yet this without any Change in him , he is the same infallible G. W. still ] for he is that incorruptible Seed and Word of Life , which begets Forms , and brings forth the Soul of Man into his own Nature and Image , and so he renews his own Image in Man that believes in his Power , and so Christ may be said to be formed in us , as in a misterious and elegant way of speaking , the Property and Effect being put for the Cause ; for Christ , in himself , hath all Power in Heaven an Earth given to him , and it hath pleased the Father , that all Fullness should dwell in him . Again , in Judgment fixed , p. 322. We deny the Doctrine that the Word , GOD , is in Bondage or Captivity in the Sons and Daughters of Men but only that there is a Seed of God and of Christ that is opressed , and suffers in many by reason of Transgression . A Seed of God is commonly our Phrase and Terms in this case . And p. 124. These are certain Allusions and Elegancies . Note , this is expresly contradictory to what he hath frequently printed in his other Books , particularly to what is at great length quoted above out of his He-goat● Horn , p. 8. and his Brief Discovery , p. 21. where he calls the Seed that suffers within People , and that desires to be freed from Sin , Christ ; and the Lamb that was slain , that is worthy to receive Power , and Wisdom , and Riches , and Strength , and Honour , and Glory and Blessing : Now if by Christ , the Lamb that was slain within , the Seed that suffers within , and desires to be freed from Sin , &c. G. W. does not mean Christ , really and strictly speaking , but will have it to be a misterious and elegant way of speaking , the Property and Effect being put for the Cause , so that by the Seed , Christ in Men , according to his Explication , in Judgment fixed , just now given , he meaneth only the created Souls of Men , as begotten and born of the immortal Seed ; then how will this agree with his making the created Soul as begotten and born of the immortal Seed , to be the Lamb that was slain , who is worthy to receive Power , and Riches , and Wisdom , and Strength , and Honour , and Glory , and Blessing ? Rev. 5. 12. which is a Doxology of divine Praise , and an Act of divine Worship given to that Lamb , by Angels and Saints ; and seeing , according to G. W's Explication here given in his Judgment fixed , the Seed that is born in them , suffers in them , slain in them , is neither God nor Christ , and yet had divine Worship and Honour given thereto by Angels and Saints : It follows , that according to G. W. divine Adoration is due to regenerated Souls of Men , or at least , to something in the Souls of regenerated Men that is neither God nor Christ , but a meer Creature , which is abominable Idolatry , and yet justified here by G. W. in his Judgment fixed , compared with his He goats Horn. I cannot understand how G. W. can clear himself here , unless he should tell us of another elegant way of speaking ; that is , to give to this Allegorical Christ Jesus born within them , the Lamb that was slain within them , an allegorical divine Adoration and Worship , and that it was only this allegorical divine Adoration that the Saints and Angels gave to this Lamb slain within Men , Rev. 5. 12. But how nonsensical and idle any such Gloss would be , I need not shew , and yet I suppose it is the best he can find . But again , that not only a Seed of God suffers in Men by their Sins , but that God , and Christ as God , suffers in Men by their Sins [ in plain Contradiction to what he has delivered in his Judgment fixed ] is evident from his Divinity of Christ , p. 55. 5● where he hath these following Words [ in Opposition to T. Vincent , who had affirmed , That Christ , as God , did not suffer , but only as Man. ] VVhereas ( saith he ) T. V. had affirmed , That Christ , as God , could not suffer : As to his saying , That God cannot suffer , is in one Sense , not true , though he intended as to Death , yet the Spirit of God hath suffered , and hath been grieved by Man's Transgressions : And for this he cites Isa . 63. 10. Amos 2. 13. Hos . 11. 8 , 9. Psal . 95. Gen. 6. 6. Psal . 78. 40. Isa . 1. 7 , 13. and Isa . 43. 24 , 25. Note , Here the State of the Controversie betwixt G. VV. and T. V. was not about a metaphorical suffering of God , but a real , which is here affirmed by G. VV. in Contradiction to what he has said in his Judgment fixed , as above quoted . And because G. VV. in his Judgment fixed , p. 322. blames Jeffery Bullock for his dealing unfairly and fallaciously , with charging it on the Quakers for preaching and printing , That the Seed , Spirit , Word , or God , is both in Prison , Bondage , and Captivity , and to be quickned , raised , &c. withal adding , That the said J. B. hath not produced any Book of ours or our Friends , wherein this Doctrine is printed : Surely G. VV. had a very treacherous Memory , or writ this against his own Conscience , seeing he had writ so expresly himself in his former Books , as is above quoted out of his He-goats Horn , his Brief Discovery , and his Divinity of Christ , all which were in print before J. B. gave this Charge against them . And as to his Distinction betwixt God or Christ , and a Seed of God or Christ that is oppressed , and suffers in Men by their Sins , as if it were not either God or Christ that thus suffers in Men by their Sins ; this is contradictory to G. W's own former Doctrine , who brought Amos 2. 13. to prove that God suffers in Men by their Sins ( viz. not metaphorically , by that Figure commonly called Anthropopathia , but really , which was the only State of the Controversie . ) Behold , I am pressed under you , as a Cart that is full of Sheaves . Now , seeing this must be understood literally and strictly , according to G. W. it must be a very great Suffering , that he thinks God suffers in Men by their Sins , that may be said to amount to an Oppression , which yet he denies is applicable to God , in his Judgment fixed . And seeing the Seed within , that is slain , he would have it , in his He-goats Horn , to be the Lamb that was slain , Rev. 5. 12. to whom the Angels gave divine Worship ; he must needs own that Seed to be Christ , and that Christ to be God ; and consequently , not only that God suffers in Men by their Sins , but is slain in them , or else confess Idolatry to be lawful . But that the Seed that is within Men , that W. Penn will have to be the promised Seed of the Woman that bruiseth the Head of the Serpent , is Christ , and God over all , blessed for ev̄er more : Take his express Words in his Christian Quaker , p. 97 , 98. The Seed of the Promise is an holy and spiritual Principle of Light , Life , and Power , that being received into the Heart , bruiseth the Serpent's Head ; and because the Seed , which cannot be that Body ( viz. that was outwardly born of the Virgin ) is Christ , as testifie the Scriptures , the Seed is one , and that Seed Christ , and Christ , God over all , blest for ever . But when is it , that the Seed in Men is the Mighty God ? Is it at its first being received into the Heart , according to W. P' s Notions ? Hear himself unriddle the Mistery , in his Christian Quaker , p. 98. And though particular Persons might arrive at great Attainments , even to a beholding the Day of the Seeds compleat Redemption and Conquest over all its Oppressors . [ Mark this , G. Whitehead , That the Seed , which is Christ , and God over all , is for a time oppressed , and suffers under its Oppressors , which yet thou hast the Impudence to deny , that any of thy Friends use any such Phrase , ] ( when what was but in Condition of a Seed or new-born Child , should become the only Son , the wonderful Counseller , the Mighty God , the everlasting Father , and Prince of Peace , of the Encrease of whose Government , there should be no End , as speaks the Prophet ; ) yet it is granted , through that good Vnderstanding the Lord has given us in these weighty things , that the Generality were but weak , dark , and in Bondage , as saith the Apostle , under carnal and beggerly Elements , not clearly seeing through those outward Services ; which , if I may so speak . God held them in Hand with , condescending to their Weakness , that he might both keep them from gadding after the pompous Invention , and idolatrous Worship of other Nations , and point out unto them , under their great Carnality , that more hidden Glory and spiritual Dispensation ▪ which should afterwards be revealed , to wit , the compleat Redemption of the Soul , and Reign of the Holy Seed , from the Child born , and the Son given , to the wonderful Counseller , the mighty God , the everlasting Father , and Prince of Peace ; of the Increase of whose Government there should be no End. Note , Thus we see , he wholly applies that most excellent Prophecy of Isaiah , 9. 6. concerning the holy Seed and Child Jesus born of the Virgin , whose Name is , The Wonderful Counseller , The Mighty God , &c. to a Seed or Principle within , which groweth up from a Seed to a Child , and from a Child , to become the Only Son , and so to become the Mighty God ; which exactly agreeth with that blasphemous Notion of W. Baily , in the Collection of his Works , p. 292 , 293. Be thou but the Virgin , the Power of the most High shall overshadow thee , and that holy thing , which shall be born of thee , shall be called the Son of God , this was Christ's Name in the VVomb ( read , within ) and then had other Names , as Jesus and Emanuel . But the Virgin is subject to the Power of the Most High , where Christ is known to be first a Holy Thing , then a Child given , and a Son born , which is Emanuel , God with us , a Saviour , the wonderful Counseller , the mighty God , the Prince of Peace . Thus we see , according to these Men's Doctrine , God sows a Seed in Men , the which Seed , as Men attend to , and obey it , they are the Virgin in whom this Seed comes to be a Child born , and that Child becomes the only Son , the wonderful Counseller , the mighty God : And a Preacher in Pensilvania , of the Quakers , did illustrate this great Quaker Mistery , to another Quaker in Pensilvania , who told it me after this manner , by this following Similitude ; A Hen lays an Egg , sits , and hatches , and brings forth a Chick , and that Chick becomes a Hen , equal to the Mother Hen ; which I confess is a very plain and intelligible Explication of the blasphemous Notion of G. VV. VV. P. and VV. B. above mentioned : Thus God , in every regenerate Man , begers God , and the God begotten is equal , in Power and Might , to the God that did beget . The Quakers Name that gave this Similitude , is Jacob Talner , a Dutch-man , who began to speak at the Beginning of the first Meeting at Turners-Hall , but saying nothing pertinent to the purpose , and confessing he had no Deputation from any of the Persons properly concerned , was desired by the Auditory , as well as by me , to be silent , that the Service of that Meeting might not be hindred . I proffered to give him a Meeting at that Place any other Day , if he had a mind to dispute , but he did not agree to my Proposition . This very Person is a frequent Preacher in the Quakers Meetings here in London . Note , I find in VV P 's Christian Quaker , p. 100. that he acknowledgeth that Christ is called Light , by a Metaphor ; And whereas , he saith , the Light in Men has been resisted , grieved , and as it were , slain : The VVord , Slain , is also metaphorical , yet be contends , it suffers in Men , and hath been deeply wounded in wicked Men ; yea , he makes the Sufferings of Christ's Godhead , to have been the greatest , p. 102. Nor was his Manhood insensible of it , he saith ; and a little after he saith , As outwardly he gave his outward Life for the World , so he might inwardly shed abroad in their Souls , the Blood of God , that is , the holy purifying Life and Virtue , which is in him , as the VVord , God , and as which , he is the Life of the VVorld . Thus we see the mistick Notion of the Blood of God. For a Close on this Head , I shall produce a large Quotation out of Truth 's Defence , p. 48. 49 , 50. giving a plain Contradiction to G. VV. his denying the Word , God , to be imprisoned , or in Bondage , &c. It having been queried by his Opponent , VVhether there be a Possibility to hide Christ , the Son of Righteousness , quite under a Cloud where be really is . G. F. thus answers , Thou Enemy of God , thou dost hide the Talent in thee , under the Clod of the Earth in thee : If thou hast an Ear , thou ma●st hear , 1 Pet. 3. 19. The Ministers of God , they speak to the Spirits in Prison , and the Prisoners shall come out of Prison . The Son of Perdition is above all that is called God in thee , 2 Thess . 2. 2. Thou blind Hypocrite , was not be in Egypt while Herod was King , and out of Egypt have I called my Son , saith the Lord ? VVho hast thou preached all this while ? Thou art one that keeps the Light in Prison in thee . And in Answer to another Question , VVhether the Devil is stronger than Christ , the Flesh than the Spirit , or where dost thou find he was ever a Prisoner in Satan's Chains ? Ans . VVe witness he was in Satan's Chains , and is in thee , else how could they crucifie him a fresh ? This , with much more after the same Strain , is found in the Pages quoted , and which was read at the second Meeting . Is not this a great Perversion , as well as nonsensical Exposition of G. F. on this Place of Peter , to prove that wicked Men imprison Christ in them ? The Spirits in Prison ( whereof Peter writes in that Place ) were sometimes disobedient in the Days of Noah , as the following Words expresly declare . But how could Christ in them be disobedient ; not only Spirits , but disobedient Spirits ? This is that Apostle of the Quakers , of whom VV. P. saith , in his Preface to G. F's Journal , He had an extraordinary Gift in opening the Scripture , he would go to the Marrow of things , saith VV. P. Is not this a rare Instance of it ? Upon the reading these Places , Samuel Jobson , one of the Quakers Elders said , George , doth not the Scriptures say , that some crucifie Christ a-fresh ? I answered , It is said in Scripture , they crucifie him to themselves , but it is not said ; they crucifie him to himself , or in himself ; by crucifying him there , is understood their rendring themselves guilty of his Death , and depriving themselves , by their unworthy Life and Practises , of the Salvation purchased by him . I asked him , did he believe , that wicked Men , by their Sins , do really wound Christ in them , and kill him , and let out his Blood in them , and that that Blood is the Blood of Atonement . He said , The Scripture saith , If we walk in the Light , &c. the Blood of Jesus Christ cleanseth us from all Sin. I asked him , Whether that Blood was the Blood of Christ without us , that was shed on the Cross ? He said , The Blood was the Life : But I asked again , Was it the Blood without us , or the Blood within us ? He said , It was spiritual Blood : But being much pressed , not only by me , but some Ministers present , to answer , whether it was Blood without him , or Blood within him ? He waved any direct Answer ; and I shewing the Auditory , that the Notion of G. F. and other Teachers of the Quakers who had learned it of him was , That the Blood , by which we are cleansed from Sin , is the Blood within , which he calls , The Blood of the Seed ; as is more fully afterwards to be proved ; and this Seed is Christ , and is not a Creature . Another Quaker said , Is not the Seed Christ , and is not Christ within , the Seed of the Woman that bruiseth the Head of the Serpent ? [ At this , some of the Hearers said , Here is Proof enough of their Error , The Seed of the Woman , it the Seed within them . ] I answered , Christ is called the Seed of the Woman , and the Seed of Abraham , as he came in the Flesh without us , and was made of a Woman , and was the Son of Abraham : And though I own Christ within , by his Godhead Presence , and by his common Illumination in all Men , and by his special Presence , and special Illuminations in the faithful ; yet I deny , that the Seed of God in Men , is either Christ or God ; I own that there is a Seed of God in the faithful , but I deny G. F. his Notion of it , That it is not a Creature . I asked Daniel Philips , what he said to my former Question ; Did Men , by their Sins , really wound God in them , as some of their Teachers have affirmed ? After some Demur , he said he would not give a positive Answer , but take it into further Consideration , whereupon some of the Auditory did commend him : I said , it was better so to do , than to assert such a vile Error ; however , by this it appeared how uncertain they were , and how little agreed about some of their chief Principles . Having thus given an Account of G. W's wild Notions , concerning Christ the Seed within , that the Power takes hold of and raises up : I will proceed to shew the like by some new Quotations out of G. F. referring to other Quotations given in my third Narrative , especially on the same Subject . See my third Narrative , p. 25. G. F. in his G. M. p. 324. quotes his Opponent saying , That the Seed to whom the Promise of Salvation is made , is or hath been Sinners . Ans . The Promise of God is to the Seed which hath been laden , as a Cart with Shaves by the Sinner , which Seed is the Hope Christ that purifies , even as God is pure ; and here is the Creature come to know its Liberty , among the Sons of God , and the Seed Christ never sinned , in the Male nor in the Female , in the Jew nor in the Gentiles : And of this Mystery was the great High Professors ignorant of , that stood at a Distance from the Gentiles , that Christ had no room among them , though they talked of him , but in the Stable , in the Manger , and in their Mouths to talk of him with their Lips , and such Christ calls Graves and Sepulchres , and whited Walls , and the Wall is not the Seed , but the Seed is Christ , and not the Sepulchre nor the Grave ; so this Promise is not unto Seeds as many , but to one , the Seed which is Christ. Note these gross Perversions of Scripture . Again , p. 171. G. M. Now they feel not the Comfort , nor the Benefit , but by the Faith of Christ Jesus , the one Offering in which God is pleased with all , which is acceptable , which is Christ's Offering , his Sacrifice , his Flesh , his Blood , his Life , his Word must be manifest and received within , before they come to Justification , Sanctification , and Redemption . P. 173. And where Jesus Christ is within , the Word is there , and God is there , and this is the great Mistery of Godliness . Again , G. M. p. 158. Of this Body ( which is that by which Christ reconciles unto God ) are all the Professors , Protestants and Papists , ignorant of this Seed that breaks the Enmity . P. 159. And by Faith is every one justified in the Blood of the Seed , the Flesh of Christ , the Lord from Heaven shed for the Sins of the whole World. The Blood of the Seed which is the Life that cleanseth ; and this Blood is felt within , for it purgeth the Conscience from dead VVorks , to serve the living God ; and here is the great Mistery of God , and the VVisdom of God. Note , This Flesh and Blood that he saith is the great Mistery , which neither Papists nor Protestants know , is that Flesh which was crucified in Adam , when Adam sinned , and the Blood that was then shed , in which is the Belief that takes away the Sin , as I have shewed in a large Quotation out of another Book of his in my third Narrative , p. 25. For a Close upon this Head , I shall quote a Passage of G. F. in that called Several Papers given forth , &c. by G. F. who is there called Minister of the eternal VVord of God. p. 47. Now to all dear ones and dear Hearts , I speak , the same Seed which it Christ , the same Spirit takes upon it now as ever ; yea , the same Temptations , the same Devil , and the same VVorship of the VVorld is winding into another Form and Colour ; but Jesus Christ is the Way , the Truth , and the Life : And the same Seed passing into the Wilderness , and there is tempted to lust after the Creature ; you that are in the Wilderness , witness this with me , and the same Tentations even to Despair , and make themselves away . Note ▪ here all along , from the Passages above quoted out of G. F. and G. W. and many more which might be quoted out of them and others , it evidently appears , that the greatest things that are written of Christ , either by Prophecy in the Old Testament , or fulfilled in the New Testament ; his outward Birth , his Incarnation , his taking hold , not of Angels , but the Seed of Abraham , his Sacrifice and Offering , his Blood , Death , Burial , Resurrection , Ascension ; yea , his being tempted by Satan in the World ; is all applied to the Seed Christ within , as the great Mistery of Godliness ; yea , as greater than God manifest in Flesh without , as is quoted out of W. Penn , and as concerning Christ's Flesh without , that 's a Figure , but Christ within is the Substance . Now to apply all this in way of Allegory to Christ incarnate within , the Seed that the Spirit takes hold of , to use G. F's Words , that looks like an Incarnation of the Holy Ghost in G. F. and his Brethren , is too rash , and goeth beyond the Bounds of Sobriety : But to turn it all to the greatest Reallity , and all that 's said of Christ without , to be the Allegory and Figure of the Substance within , as is effectually proved , is a plain overthrowing the Christian Faith. But it 's very hard to conceive how this Seed Christ within , as G. F. holds it forth , was or could be tempted of the Devil , to lust after the Creature ; seeing , as he will have it , it is no Creature it self , can it be supposed that the Devil would or could tempt the Godhead to lust after the Creature ; and what this Seed can be , which G. F. calls Christ that 's buried in the wicked ; and elsewhere , the Spirit and Spirits in Prison , yea , the Prisoners in Hell , that the Quakers have preached to , that 's no Creature , nor God , nor any Part of the divine Essence , for that cannot be divided into Parts , is unaccountable ? There yet remains three or four Passages which were objected in a printed Sheet , called An Account from Colchester , against G. W. and E. B. to which these seven Quakers in Colchester have given their Reply by way of Vindication , but all grosly fallacious , in that they call , Some Account from Calchester , as we shall see in what follows . It was objected against G. W. out of his Truth defending the Quakers , page 65. Christopher Wade affirmeth , That our blessed Saviour doth instruct Men to lay fast hold of , and to abide in such a Faith which confideth in himself , being without Men. To this G. W. answereth , That 's contrary to the Apostles Doctrine , who preached the Word of Faith that was in their Hearts , and the Saints Faith stood in the Power of God , which was in them . Their Defence is , That George White head 's Intent in this Answer , was not against C. Wade's excluding Christ's spiritual Appearance and Work of Righteousness out of his Saints , by affirming , That our blessed Saviour doth totally condomn all such Faith which doth trust , that Men are righteous in their own Bodies by what Spirit soever , either from Heaven or elsewhere , that Righteousness is wrought in Mens Bodies ; p. ibid. Whereby ●e opposed Christ's Work of Regeneration in true Believers , as also his affirming that the true Christ doth prove himself not to be a Spirit . To this I say , suppose C. Wade had erred on the one hand , this doth not justifie this most scandalous Assertion of George Whitehead . That it is contrary to Rom. 10. to confide in Christ without Men , whereas Rom. 10. 8 , 9 , 10. teacheth us , That to to believe in Christ without us , and so to confess him , is necessary to our Salvation . It 's observable how both they and G. W. himself waves giving a plain and positive Answer to this great Objection . They say indeed , in page 21. As there is one Lord Jesus Christ , and one true Faith in him , this Faith respects Christ , both as without us in the Heavens , and as he is in the Hearts of his Saints . But they do not tell what they mean by Christ as without us in the Heavens ; not one Word of their Faith in Christ , as he is both God and Man , and who as Man , consisting of a created Soul and Body , the same in Nature with the Nature of other Men ( but without Sin ) is in the Heavens in our glorified Nature : This being the thing that is mainly objected on this Head , and which they will not , nor dare not give a plain Answer unto , nor G. W. either , for it will detect his and their gross Error ; or if they or he give a sound Answer , it will prove they are changed , and that will reflect on G. W's Infallibility . But they grosly abuse C. Wade for his sound Doctrine , which G. W. has not fairly nor duely represented ; for C. Wade , in that very Page , doth clear himself , both against a lying Charge , first , in G. F. who charged him , That he did totally exclude Works without any Distinction , G. M. p. 298. And the like false Charge doth G. W. load him with , That he opposed Christ's Work of Regeneration in true Believers , which is an extremely false Charge against him , as he sheweth at length ; but he did only exclude them from being the meritorious Cause of our Justification , and the Foundation of our Faith ; so that though Sanctification and good Works are necessary , and none can be either justified or saved without them , yet we must not trust in them , nor make a Saviour of them . But it 's no Wonder that G. W. blames this Doctrine , who in his Voice of Wisdom , pleads for the Meritoriousness of good Works in Men , as grosly as the grossest Papists , yea , and much more grosly , as we may see in its proper Place . But this is G. W. and his Brethrens common Work , to misrepresent their Opponents , to hide their own vile Heresies . And as for C. Wade's saying , Christ proved himself not to be a Spirit , to wit , a meer Spirit , as he explains himself ; he quoted for it , Christ's own Words , Handle me and feel me , for a Spirit has not Flesh and Bones as ye see me have ; and was not that a sufficient Proof that the Man Christ was not a meer Spirit . Proofs on the sixth Head , Concerning the Soul. Whether the Soul of Man is a Part of God. G. VVhitehead is at great Pains . in his Truth and Innocency , page 7. and 9. to prove , that when George Fox said , The Soul was a Part of God , and of God's Being ; he did not mean the rational Soul of Man , and which he calls the reasonable Soul or Spirit formed in Man , but that divine Inspiration or Breath of Life , whereby Man became a living Soul , as the great and universal Soul of Mankind , even the Soul , or Life of the Soul , as some phrase it . And Joseph VVyeth , in his Switch , page 53. pleads , That he meant not That the created Soul was a Part of God ; and will have it , that George Fox held , That the Soul of Man was created . But none of them give the least effectual Proof out of his Books , where George Fox mentions any created Soul to be in Man , that is not a Part of God : Their Inferences are weak , as That Christ is the Bishop of the Soul : The Soul is in Transgression in Death : The Soul redeemed rejoyceth in God : All this doth not prove ; that George Fox did hold , that the Soul of Man , in all these Considerations , was not a Part of God : For , according to him , the Soul being a Part of God , this part rejoyceth in God the Fulness ; and God or Christ considered as the Fulness , is the Bishop of the Soul that is a Part of him , the Soul being like a Drop of Water returning into the Ocean , so taught the Ranters ; and that all Creatures were Parts of God , who was the Substance of all things ; and so saith George Fox expresly , Great Mistery , page 99. and Edward Burrough , see the Collection of his Works , pag. 827 , 828. And George Fox denieth , That either Christ or Men have a Humane Soul , or that Christ hath either a Humane Soul or Body , Great Mistery , pag. 99 , 100. His Objection is idle against Humane , as signifying Earthly , from Humus , the Ground , which is but a Cloak to cover his gross Eerror . None of his Opponents said , the Soul was from the Earth : He might as much object against the Language of Scripture , that calleth Christ the second Adam , the Word Adam signifying Red Earth . That the Soul is in Transgression in Death , proves not that George Fox did not hold it to be a Part of God , for he and other Teachers among the Quakers teach , That what they call the Seed Christ , is crucified in the wicked , and is held in Satans Chains , and what are these Chains but Sins , as is above proved out of Truth 's Def. p. 49. But for a full and clear Evidence , that George Fox did hold the Soul of Man to be a Part of God , in answer to Magnus Byne his Book , called , The scornful Quakers answered . Great Mistery , p. 90. Is not the Soul without Beginning coming from God , returning into God again , who hath it in his Hand ? And in Answer to Jonathan Clapham his Book , called A Discovery of the Quakers Doctrine , Great Mistery , page 100. Is not this that cometh out from God , which is in God's Hand , part of God , of God and from God , and to God again , which Soul Christ is the Bishop of ? It is to be noted and well observed , that this Opposition that George Fox made to those Men and his other Opponents , as Richard Baxter , and the five Ministers of New Castle , about the Soul which they denied to be a Part of God , or without Beginning , and he affirmed it was . [ By Opposition to them ] was not about any divine Soul in the Soul that was the Life or Soul of it , as George VVhitehead would have it ; by which he means , God or the Holy Ghost , for in all Disputes , the Subject of the Dispute is one betwixt the Opponent and the Respondent ; and though sometimes , where the Matter is intricate and nice , the Subject is hard to find out , and the Opponent may mean one thing , and the Respondent another ; yet in a Case that is clear , and easie to be understood , as this Case is , there can be no Difficulty about the Subject of the Dispute , as indeed here there is none ; which Subject of Dispute betwixt George Fox and his Opponents above mentioned , was purely and simply the Soul of Man , and not any divine Principle in the Soul. As to instance from Magnus Byne , the Beginning of this Controversie betwixt Magnus Byne and George Fox , about the Soul , was by a Question that Magnus Byne put to Thomas Lawson a Quaker , which was this [ see in Magnus Byne , The scornful Quaker answered , page 103. ] VVhat is the Soul of Man , and the Preciousness of it , seeing Christ says , It is more worth than all the VVorld ? To this Thomas Lawson the Quaker answers , The Ministers of Jesus , who come by the Will of God , such know the Soul , and watch for the Soul , Heb. 13. 17. But thy watching is for the Fliece , and art querying what the Soul is which lies in Death , and State , and Condemnation so long as it lives , and the false Accuser lives , and it the First-born knows not , nor the Preciousness of it , who prefers the World , and obeys it before the Light of Christ , and so sells the Soul for the World , as thou dost who professest him in thy Lip-talk , but denies him in Practice , Ways , and Conversation , though Christ saith , The Soul is more worth than all the World. To which , Magnus Byne , his Opponent thus replieth ; In all this Answer , there is not a Tittle unto-the Question ; here it appears thy perfect knowledge fails thee . Here thou guessest , that the Soul is Christ , for he is the First-born the Scripture mentions ; and so according to thy Blasphemy , Christ it seems may be damned and cast into Hell , for so it is said of the Soul , Fear him who is able to cast Body and Soul into Hell. See how dark thou art in making no Difference between the Soul and Christ ; the Soul is indeed a precious thing , there is a kind of Infiniteness in it , which all the World cannot satisfie ; and therefore the Man was a Fool that said , Soul , take thine Ease because thy Barns are full ; and yet notwithstanding this kind of Infiniteness in the Soul as being restless , till it return to God ; yet it cannot be Infiniteness it self , it cannot be the First-born , for of whole Man it is said , whereof the Soul is the more noble Part , VVhat is Man that thou art mindful of him ? Heb. 2. 6 , 7. Man you see is inferior unto the Angels , much more inferior to the Son of God. And farther ( saith he ) though the Soul be the Seat of Christ , and Christ be hid there as a Treasure in a Field , even in the innermost Room of the Soul , yet the Soul cannot comprehend the infinite Majesty ; so Christ in his diviner Essence or Being , much less , can it be Christ who is God over all blessed for evermore ? And though there be indeed a blessed Union and Fellowship between Christ and an holy Soul , yet still there is a vast Difference between the Essence or being of the Soul and Christ , the one being still a Creature , and the other the Creator of it . Next he comes to give his own Definition of it ; The Soul ( saith Magnus Byne ) is a most noble Power , a living Being , an Essence that quickens the Body , and yet dies not , sleeps not when the Body dies and sleeps , but returns unto God who gave it : This Soul is a little Map of the great World , and makes Man a little World ; for in his Soul is comprehended the Life of Plants , the Sense of Beasts , the Reason of Men and Angels : This Soul quickens and makes Man a living Creature , a sensitive Creature , a rational Creature . After he has described the Soul of Man ( which he expresly calls a Creature , as above quoted ) in its several Powers and Faculties of the Mind , Reason , Judgment , Will , Memory , Fancy , Appetite and Affections ; to wit , the created Soul of Man : He saith , God is the Life of our Life , and Soul of our Soul ; he proceeds very regularly to tell , That in this Soul of Man , or in the Spirit or Mind of it , as the highest Power , when it is regenerated and resigned , lives the great King manifested ; here he dwells as in Mount Sion , here he delights to be as in his Temple . And in this Soul of Man , unenlightened and unrenewed , Christ lies hid and is as one dead [ note , he doth not say dead , as the Quakers say , but is as one dead ] and unsavory unto the Soul , and so the Soul is in Darkness , Weakness , Sinfulness , Sorrow , Fear , Bondage . Thus we see Magnus Byne doth so clearly state the Subject of the Controversie betwixt him and the Quakers his Opponents , which was the Soul of Man , the created reasonable Soul , that is neither God nor Christ , though he owneth that God and Christ are in the Souls of Men , both regenerate and unregenerate , but after different Manners , that he leaves no room for any of the least Capacity of Understanding to mistake the true Subject of the Controversie ; and therefore George Fox , whom Joseph Wyeth magnifieth as the APOSTLE in this Age , could not be such a Sot as not to understand the true Subject of the Dispute , which was the Soul of Man , the reasonable Soul , that which thinks , wills , loves , which dieth not when the Body dieth , and which again and again he calleth a Creature , and the created Soul , distinguisheth it from Christ in the Soul , which he saith , is the Life of our Life , and Soul of our Soul. [ The same Expression used by George VVhitehead , in his Truth and Innocency . ] Yet notwithstanding all this clear stating the Subject of the Dispute , which was the Soul of Man [ and not that divine Principle in the Soul. ] George Fox doth make a great Difference with him , and sets himself in great Opposition to him , and will needs have it , That the Soul [ to wit , the Soul of Man , which was the only Subject of the Dispute ] is without Beginning , coming from God , returning to God again . Also he opposeth Magnus Byne's Saying , There is a kind of Infiniteness in the Soul [ viz. with Respect to the Largeness of its Desires , which the whole World cannot satisfie , as he explained himself ; ] but it is not Infiniteness it self , which George Fox wrongly quotes by adding the Word IN , making him say , It is not Infiniteness IN it self , which mars the Sense : But George Fox , in Opposition to M. B. will have the Soul of Man [ which was the Subject of the Dispute ] to be Infiniteness it self without Beginning . Note , Here a Quaker , Daniel Philips objected , That Disputants might differ about the Subject of the Dispute , so as the Opponent might mean one thing , and the Respondent another : But I answered , They might so , when the Matter is intricate and obscure by Ambiguities of Words ; but it could not be so here , the Subject of the Dispute being so clearly proposed , that none but a Sot or Cheat could or would mistake the Subject , which the Quakers will not allow G. F. to be , having so great an Esteem of his Wisdom , as the Apostle in this Age. And the like is to be said of all the Disputes betwixt George Fox and his other Opponents about the Soul , which were only about the Soul of Man , and not at all about God or Christ in the Soul , for they all did contend there was a real Distinction betwixt the Soul and God or Christ who was in it : But George Fox would allow none , but still contended , That the Soul , concerning which they and he disputed , was a Part of God without Beginning , &c. And in his Great Mistery , page 91. he blames Magnus Byne for calling the Soul a Creature , and saith , he is in Babylon and Confusion . And in his Dispute with the five Ministers of New Castle , Great Mistery , pag. 227 , 228. he saith , The Soul , whereof Christ is the Bishop , is divine and immortal ; also he most grosly wrongs the five Ministers of New Castle , and charges them with holding it to be their own Principle ; Great Mistery , page 227. That the Soul is a Part of the divine Essence . And in his Great Mistery , page 29. he saith to them , And so you five have judged your selves to be Blasphemers , who said , The Soul was Part of the divine Essence , and yet it is Blasphemy to say so . This he most unjustly chargeth in them , quoting their Book , called , A Discovery of that Generation of Men called Quakers ; but in that very Book , which was produced and the Words quoted , as they are in that Book , page 5. the five Ministers deliver it , not as any Position of theirs , but as one of the Quakers Positions [ having this Title on the Top , Quakers Positions ] being the third in Number , and in all being seventeen ] That the Soul is a Part of the divine Essence . What Excuse can George VVhitehead , or any of his Brethren find for this palpable Injustice in George Fox ? Could he be so sottish as not to distinguish betwixt the five Ministers Positions , and what they call the Quakers Positions , and which they expresly blame and disown , and give their Arguments against ? And if he was not so ignoratly sottish in the Case , what can it be construed but a wilful Lie thus for him to charge them ? And for a further Confirmation that George Fox did hold , That that very Soul of Man [ which George VVhitehead calls the reasonable and rational Soul , Truth and Innocency , pag. 7 , 8 , 9. and which George VVhitehead confesseth hath sinned ] doth not sin , and is not at any time a sinful Soul ; consequently is , according to him , a Part of God ; I bring a Quotation out of his Great Mistery , page 337. George Fox quotes his Opponent saying , The Soul of Man is a reasonable sinful Substance : To this George Fox answers , How can that which is sinful be reasonable ? And if that which is unsinful be reasonable , and sinful be reasonable both , then they are one in Vnity . The Lord will take the Soul for an Offering for Sin , Isa . 5. 3. See how thou and the Prophet agrees here . But what is that Soul that the wicked is not able to kill ? Is it not that which God hath in his Hand ? And this is a Lye to say , That which is reasonable is sinful . Note how grosly he perverts that Place in Isa . 53. 10. When thou shall make his Soul an Offering for Sin : This is understood of the Soul of the Man Christ who suffered without us , and not of any Soul within us , which yet is George Fox's Notion ; and this very Soul in Men , this reasonable Soul , George Fox will have it to be the Odering for Sin : And because it is so , therefore he concludes it is not sinful , not capable of sinning ; yet George Whitehead saith , The reasonable Soul is capable of sinning , and hath sinned in Men ( though it never sinned in Christ . ) See how these two Apostles do now contradict one anoother , and yet none of them fallible ! Note , again , how George Fox thought he put a very puzzling Query to his Opponent to convince him , that the reasonable Soul in Men did not sin ; What is that Soul that the wicked cannot kill ? Surely by this Query George Fox meant the Soul that the wicked cannot kill , was not the Soul that could sin , wherein he sheweth his great Ignorance ; for though the wicked cannot kill the sinful Souls of Men , yet as Christ said in the following Words , He is to be feared , to wit , God , that can cast both Soul and Body into Hell Fire : Now what Soul can be cast into Hell Fire , but the Soul that sinneth ? But lastly , By George Fox's Argument , That if the sinful Soul be reasonable , and the unsinful Soul be reasonable also , then they are one in Unity , which he would have to be a great Absurdity ; thus he hath plainly disclosed the Mistery of his profound Doctrine , that is a Branch of Ranterism , viz. that there are but two Principles , one good in Man , that never sinneth or doth evil , the other bad , that sinneth , and never doeth good ; the one is God , or a Part of God , the other the Devil , or a Part of the Devil : And his denying that one and the same Soul doth sin at one Time , and doth well at another Time , clearly proveth , that according to him , there is not any Soul of Man , but what is either a Part of God , or of the Devil : And he discovereth his great Ignorance , in denying that the reasonable Soul is sinful , the contrary whereof is true , that no Soul but a reasonable Soul , is or can be sinful : for what is it that makes the Beasts uncapable of sinning , but that they are not reasonable ? And whereas his Opponent had very well argued , that the evil Spirits are both sinful and reasonable ; George Fox answereth , This is a Lie , for reasonable is not sinful , unreasonable is sinful ; quoting 2 Thess . 3. 2. And that we may be delivered from unreasonable and wicked Men , for all Men have not Faith. But this doth nothing favour his Manichean Notion ; he was so ignorant as not to distinguish betwixt the Faculty of Reason , and the Act of Reason , when Men that are reasonable , and have reasonable Souls , act contrary to Reason ; they are said to be unreasonable , to wit , in Act ; but still , the Soul that sinneth is reasonable , with respect to the rational Faculty , nor could evil Spirits sin , if they were not reasonable , i. e. indued with rational Faculties ? Besides , the Greek Word , in 2 Thess . 3. 2. is not 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 but 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and is not so properly translated Unreasonable , but ( as it is on the Margin ) Absurd , i. e. such , who , though they have Reason , yet will not give place to Reason , but act contrary to it ; and George Fox , had he had the right Use of his Reason , might have seen , that it is no more an Argument against the Soul of Man being reasonable , that it acts unreasonably , than it is an Argument that the Soul is not enlightened by the Light within , because it often acts contrary to the Dictates of it . Again , for a further Confirmation of George Fox's Doctrine , That the Soul that sinneth , is not the Soul that is to be saved ; and that therefore , the Soul that is saved , or is to be saved , is only Christ , the Seed within Men : Hear what George Fox saith , Great Mistery , page 324. he quotes his Opponent saying , That the Seed , to whom the Promise of Salvation is made , is or hath been Sinners . This he opposeth saying , The Promise of God is to the Seed , which hath been laden as a Cart with Shaves by the Sinner , which Seed is the Hope Christ , that purifies even as God is pure : So this Promise is not to Seeds , as many , but to one , the Seed which is Christ . Note In the same Paragraph he saith , So here is the Creature come to know its Liberty amongst the Sons of God , and the Seed Christ , never sinned in the Male nor in the Female . Note what he means by the Creature that comes to know its Liberty , which hath not sinned , and hath the Promise of Salvation , seems not intelligible , for he denieth that the Seed is a Creature , and yet it is that to which the Promise of Salvation is , to wit , the Seed Christ in the Male and in the Female that never sinned ; but he grosly perverts that Place in Gal. 3. 16. for by the Seed Christ , is there meant Christ as he came outwardly according to the Flesh out of Abraham's Loins , to whom the Promise was , that in him all Nations of the Earth should be blessed , but this was not to a Seed within that needed Salvation . Like to this is what he saith in Great Mistery , p. 15. having quoted his Opponent saying , There is nothing in Man to be spoken to but Man : To this he thus opposeth , How then Ministred the Apostle to the Spirit , and Christ spake to the Spirits in Prison , and Timothy was to stir up the Gift that was in him , and the Spirit of the Father speaks within them , and the Light it shines in the Heart ? Here the Scriptures are for Correction of thee , and Reproof of thee , who said , there is nothing to speak to in Man but Man. Again , In Great Mystery , p. 187 , he quotes his Opponent saying , It would be good News , if the Quakers should go and preach to the Spirits in Hell. To this he answers , The Quakers have been among the Prisoners that be in Hell , and ministred to that , and the CORRUPTIONS shall go into the Fire that hath no End , and they that do wickedly and forget God , shall go into Hell , and Death and Hell shall go into the Lake of Fire ; and there is more in these Words yet than thou canst receive , for God is the Salvation of all Men , but specially them that believe . Note , thus we see he is very charitable , and the Quakers Ministers are very charitable , that they have been among the Prisoners in Hell , and preached to that . But how is this great Charity consistent with his saying , That that which sinneth is not saved , unless he mean that Sin is not saved , though the Creature is ? The very same Doctrine , concerning the Soul , I find asserted by Edward Burrough in his Works , Coll. page 27. Thou sayest , one of us told thee , That that which sinned could not be saved . I answer ( saith Edward Burrough ) It is out of the Reach of the Wisdom , and thy vulturous Eye shall never see it , I say , as the Scripture saith , The Soul that sinneth must die , and every Man must die for his own Iniquity : If thou hast an Ear , thou mayst hear . Thus we see the Agreement of these two great Teachers of the Quakers , about the Souls that sin , that they shall not be saved , nor can be saved . But how grosly doth Edward Burrough pervert those Scriptures to prove his most corrupt Doctrine , that is plain Ranterism ? Because the Scripture saith , The Soul that sinneth must die ; doth it therefore follow , That it cannot afterwards be saved , both from Death , and Sin , that is the Cause of it ? Indeed Sin hath brought a Spiritual Death upon the Souls of Men : But what then ? Must they therefore none of them that have sinned be saved ? Had not the Ephesians been great Sinners , yea , and they were dead in their Sins and Trespasses , yet these very same Men having the same Souls , were quickened and made alive by Christ , Ephes . 2. 3. And you hath he quickened who were dead in Trespasses and Sins ? And George Whitehead himself is guilty of the same absurd Doctrine with G. F. and Edward Burrough , who in his He-goats Horn , pag. 11 , 12. denieth that Christ hath our Nature in Heaven , and that it is one and the same Nature in Men , by which the Gentiles sinned , aud by which they did the things contained in the Law : And in his Voice of Wisdom , page 20. he holdeth , That Christ is both the Efficient and Subject of the good Works that are wrought in Men , which is in effect to say , it is not Men , or the Souls of Men that repent , believe , obey God , but Christ in them , or else he must say , The Soul that believes , repents , obeys , is Christ ; and though in his later Books he seems to deny this , yet will retract nothing , for that would reflect on his Infallibility : But his common Salve for this Sore is , That he may see cause otherwise to word the Matter , and yet mean the same thing , as he has of late exprest in some of his Books . Note , Whereas in the Close of the third Meeting , a Letter of John Audland ( a Preacher among the Quakers ) to George Fox , was read , wherein is contained gross Idolatry , which confirms , in matter of Fact , what George Fox said of himself , That he was equal to God , and that he was Christ ; and upon this Notion John Audland addressed himself to George Fox , as to God and Christ , in his said Letter , the which , for its Affinity with the Doctrine of George Fox , discovered in the first and second Part of this Narrative , I think fit here to insert . John Audland's Blasphemous Letter to George Fox , Spelt and Pointed according to the Original . DEare and presious one in whome my life is bound up and my strenth in thee stands , by thy breathings I am nurished and refreshed : and by thee my strenth is renewed : blessed art thow for Ever more : and blessed are all they that Enjoy thee : life and strenth comes from thee holy one : and thow art the blessed of the lord for Ever more , dear dear reach unto mee , that I may be strenthened , to stand in the mighty power and dread of the lord , for the sarvisse is very great , my travell and burthen was never , soe as now since I saw thee : but dayly doe I find thy Presence with me , which doth exceedingly Preserve mee ; for I cannot reane but in thy presence and power : pray for me that I may stand in thy dread for Ever more : deare my deare brother John Cam hath been Exceeding sicke and he is very weake I can say little of his Recovery as yet his wife is with him she is deare and preciously keept ; their deare love is to thee , chreach through all in thy mighty power to him this bearer can declare to thee of the work this way : Jo : Willkinson and Jo : Storey is heare , their love is dearly to thee : deare harte there is one thinge that lies upon mee : I shall lay it before thee : as tuching my coming into Wiltshire : I was there at Justice Stoks house : and his famaley is all prety loveing and convinced : and he is a sober wise man and there is honesty in him which will stand : and there is a pretey people that way : it hath laid exceeddingly upon me these 3 days of thy beeing at that place : I know not such another place in all the Counterey : for thee : dear : I was much wounded to know that thow was in such a rude place and suffers soe amongst them : and this was I moved to lay before thee : and great is my disere that it may be soe : the Place is about 20 miles from brestol in wiltshire one mile from chipenam a markete towne Justice : stoks house , Jo : Cam tould me that the Justice he was with was a very Loving and prety , man : this bearer was there he can declare to thee more : but oh that thou weare but at that place I mention : it is free and suteable for frends coming to thee : it lies much upon mee : and if thow find movings strike over thither I shall say no more of it : the worke is great heare away pray for us all that in thy Power we may abide for Evermore : I am thyne begoten and nurished by thee and in thy Power am I preserved glory unto thee holy one for Ever : John Audland . The Letter being read , the Auditory was struck with Admiration , and generally signified their great Abhorrency of the Blasphemy and Idolatry contained in it to G. Fox : I told them , the Quakers had two Excuses as to this Letter , one was , that it was feigned ; because , as it was once printed , it had a wrong Date , viz. 1665. which was some Years after John Audland was dead . But that was the Fault or Mistake of the Publisher of that Letter ; that proves not the Letter to be feigned , for the original Manuscript was read in the Meeting , that had no date , and was handed about to several Ministers and others , together with another Letter of the same John Audland , in Manuscript , to another Person , who did unanimously judge it was the same hand that writ both the Letters . Their next Excuse is , That these Words in John Audland's Letter , were not intended to G. Fox , but to Christ , or the Life in G. Fox : And the like Excuse G. F. made in a Letter writ with his own Hand [ which was produced and read in the Meeting , and is ready to be produced before any that shall call for it ] for a Woman Quaker , that in a Quakers Meeting , said to George Fox , Thou art the King of Israel : That she spoke her Words to Christ , viz. in G. Fox : But I told , This did not hinder it to be Idolatry , nor was any just Excuse in the Case , for it was the same Excuse that the Heathens gave for their worshiping Idols , because it was not the Idol , but the divine Power that was in it , which they worshiped . The like Excuse gave those Quakers that sung Hosanna to James Nailer , at his Procession into Bristol , and the same Excuse he made for them . PART . III. Containing the Proofs on the 7th Head , concerning Justification , and on the other following Heads , contained in the Printed Advertisement , Read at Turner's-Hall the 23d of January , 1699. Concerning Justification by the Blood , Merits , and Righteousness of Christ. I Produced a Printed Paper in the Meeting , call'd , A few Positions of the sincere Belief and Christian Doctrine of the People call'd Quakers , Sign'd by G. Whitehead ; to which is adjoined another printed Paper , Sign'd by Thirty two Quakers , which , they say , was given to the Members of Parliament in the Year 1693 : In which Paper , I noted divers gross Fallacies , and gross Equivocations ; such as follow . In the 4th Article of that Paper sign'd by G. W. I quoted these words . The Divinity and Humanity , i. e. Manhood , of Christ Jesus , that as he is true God , and he is most glorious Man , our Mediator and Advocate , we livingly believe , and have often sincerely confessed in our Publick Testimonies and Writings . On this I noted , That whatever seeming Confessions they have given in their publick Testimonies to this and other Doctrines , yet seeing they have contradicted them most evidently in their printed Books , and will not allow that they are chang'd in any one of their Principles , they do Fallaciously , and put a Cheat upon the Members of Parliament , and the whole Nation . A Quaker reply'd , Dost thou think that the Members of Parliament are not more Wise than to suffer themselves to be cheated by the Quakers ? I answer'd , It is one thing for the Quakers to put a Cheat upon them ; it is another thing for them to be cheated by them ; a Cheat may be put on Men , and yet they not receive it . I hope they are so wise , as not to be deceived by them . Some of the Quakers objecting , That this tended to Persecution , so to represent them ; I answered , it tended to no Persecution , being to rescue such from those Errors , who were corrupted by them , and prevent their further spreading , and would they take my advice , I would shew them a way to secure the Toleration unto them ; and that is , by a free and plain Retractation of their gross Errors . And for an evidence of their fallacious way of Speaking and Writing , besides what was quoted and proved at the former Meeting , to prove them grosly Erroneous , concerning Christ , his Humanity , and Incarnation , his Soul , Body , Flesh and Blood ; I brought a Quotation out of that , call'd , A Testimony for the true Christ , printed 1668 , and given forth ( as in the Title-Page ) from some of them call'd Quakers . In page 4. As he speaks of Humane , with relation to Nature and Body , it hath relation to the Earth , or Humus , the Ground , of which Man was made , which the first Man is of , not the second ( tho' he was really Man too , ) but Humane or Humanity in the other sence , with relation to Gentleness , Mercifulness , and the like , this we know , was , and is , in the Image of God , in which Man was made ; and his Gentleness , Kindness , Mercifulness , &c. is manifested in Christ , who is the Image of the invisible God , and First-Born of every Creature ; which Image is not earthly , for that must be put off , but heavenly , and so to be put on by all that come to know the Glory of the terrestrial in its place , and the true and real Humanity , as oppos'd to that Cruelty , Envy and Inhumanity , which is got up in Man since the Fall ; so that Humanity and the Unreasonableness of Beasts are two things . Note , Thus we see how they own Christ's Humanity , not in the sence of Scripture , and of all sound Christians , viz. That the Word did take the real Nature of Man , consisting of Soul and Body , into a Personal Union with himself , his Divinity and Humanity being two Natures distinguished in him , but not divided ; and that he took a Body of Flesh and Blood , the same in Nature with ours , even our earthly Nature , like to us in all things , but without Sin ; but this they plainly deny , That Christ had Humanity , as it signifies Earthly ; but they tell in what sence they mean his Humanity , viz. as it signifies Gentleness , Mercifulness , as oppos'd to Cruelty , Envy , and the unreasonableness of Beasts ; in which sence they may affirm all this of Christ's Divinity and Godhead , That his Godhead is Humane , i. e. Gentle , Merciful , Kind , and yet believe not one tittle of Christ's Humanity as the Scripture holds it forth ; that is , that he was really made of a Woman , and had his Flesh of her Substance ; but this they not only here deny , but G. F. expresly denyeth , That Christ's Body was Earthly or of the Earth , G. M. p. 322. He quotes his Opponent saying , That Christ had and hath a Carnal Body , — A Carnal and Humane Body united to his Divinity . In opposition to which he saith , And Carnal Humane is from the Ground , Humane Earthly , the first Adam's Body , and Christ was not from the Ground , let all People read what thou say'st ; but he was from Heaven , his Flesh came down from above , his Flesh which was the Meat , his Flesh came down from Heaven . Again , He quotes his Opponent saying , That the Flesh of Christ is not in them ; he answers , The Saints eat his Flesh , and they that eat his Flesh , hath it within them . Again , He quotes his Opponent , That there is as much difference between a Body and a Spirit , as there is between Light and Darkness ; he Answers , Christ's Body is Spiritual , and that which is Spiritual does not differ from the Spirit ; and so there is a spiritual Body , and there is a natural Body ; and there is a spiritual Man , and there is a natural Man , and each hath their Body . Note , He plainly here denies a difference or distinction between Christ's Body of Flesh and his Spirit , for he saith , The Saints eat his Flesh , and they that eat his Flesh , hath it in them . Now what Flesh can they have of Christ in them , but what is merely Spirit ? whereas his Opponent ( and all Christians , when they speak of Christs Flesh , they ) meant a real Body , as real as the Body of any other Man. And whereas G. F. saith Christ's Flesh was not from the Ground or Earth , the Scripture saith no such thing , but the contrary , that he did partake of the same Flesh and Blood with the Children , wherefore he is not asham'd to call them Brethren * G. F. doth both Ignorantly and Fallaciously play and quible about the Word Carnal , against his Opponent , who said Christ had a Carnal Body ; he Answers , Carnal , indeed , is Death , saith the Scripture ; but here he belyes the Scripture ; it saith not , the Carnal Body is Death , but to be Carnally-minded is Death . Could G. F. be so sottish , as not to distinguish between a Carnal Body , and a Carnal Mind ? His Opponents who said , Christ had a Carnal Body united to the Divinity , they meant not Carnal , as it signifies Vicious or Corrupted , but as it signifies Material , i. e. a real Body , as real a Bodily Substance , as any other Man hath ; and tho' Christ's Body now in Heaven is a Spiritual Body , yet it is a Body still , and the same Body in Substance it was on Earth . And when it was on Earth , it was both a Material Body , and yet , in a sense , a Spiritual , i. e. a pure , immaculate Body , without all stain of Sin , a most holy Body ; and , in the like sense , it might be said , even when on Earth , it was a heavenly Body , to wit , as opposed to sinful , corrupt , and tainted with Sin ; and not only so , but in respect of its miraculous Conception , by the Holy Ghost , and the holy and heavenly Virtues it was endued with above the Body of Adam , in Innocency : And thus the comparison is made betwixt the First Adam , and the Second ; the first Man , even as he was in Innocency , is of the Earth , Earthly ; his Body was Created or Made by God Almighty , but was neither so wonderfully framed , nor endued with such excellent Virtues as our Lord's Body was : Tho' the Substance of both was the same in Specie or Kind , yet the difference was great , both in the manner of Production , and the Virtues and Properties wherewith Christ's Body was endued above Adam's Body , and chiefly in respect of the Hypostatical and Personal Union , betwixt Christ's Body or Flesh , and the Eternal Word , Eternally Begotten of the Father . It was an old Heresie of the Manicheans , That Christ's Body that was Born of the Virgin , had no part of her Body , but did penetrate her Body , as the Beams of the Sun penetrate Christal , and did entirely come from Heaven ; which Heresie was reviv'd by Meno , a Dutch-man , but is effectually and solidly refuted by Calvin , in his Institutions , lib. 2. c. 13. And as to the Quakers arguing from 1 Cor. 15 , 47. The first man of the earth , earthly , the second Man , the Lord , from heaven , that therefore his Body had not an earthly Substance , which is the same Argument Manicheus used of old ; Calvin answereth solidly thus , Manicheus aereum fabricatur Corpus , quia vocetur Christus secundus Adam de Coelo Coelestis ; at neque illic essentiam corporis Coelestem inducit Apostolus sed vim spiritualem quaed Christo diffusa nos vivificat , Sect. 2. i.e. Manicheus maketh him ( viz. Christ ) to have a Body of Air , because he is call'd the Second Adam , from heaven , heavenly : But neither doth the Apostle there infer , that the Essence of his Body is heavenly , but that there is a spiritual Virtue , which , being diffused from Christ , doth quicken us . Again , Whereas G. W. saith , Art. 7. of that Paper , Our really Believing and Confessing the Lord Jesus Christ his Passion , Sufferings , Death , Atonement , and Reconciliation made for us , and his Resurrection , Ascention , and Glorification ( as without us ) according to Scripture cannot be to allegorize these away , as if only transacted within us , as we have been unduly accused , for they were really done , and transacted without us , by our Blessed Lord Jesus Christ , tho' our true knowledge of the Power and Effect of his Resurrection , and Fellowship of his Sufferings , and our being conformable to his Death , must be experienc'd within us , if ever we live and reign with him . And in their Paper annexed , Art. 2. they say , we sincerely Believe and Confess , that Jesus of Nazareth , who was Born of the Virgin Mary , is the true Messiah , the very Christ , the Son of the Living God , to whom all his Prophets gave Witness . And we do highly value his Death , Sufferings , Works , Offices , and Merits , for the Redemption and Salvation of Mankind , together with his Laws , Doctrine and Ministry . Note , That all this seemingly fair Confession , cannot but be judged extremely Fallacious , seeing they will not Retract any of their former assertions expresly contradictory to the same , as is in great part already proved , out of the above-given Quotations . How do they sincerely Confess , that Jesus of Nazareth , who was Born of the Virgin Mary , was the very Christ , the Son of the Living God , seeing they profess to be of one Faith with W. P. who saith , That that Outward Person that Suffered [ at Jerusalem ] was properly the Son of God , we utterly deny , as above-quoted ? And to be of E. B.'s Faith , who denyeth that Christ is in Heaven in our Nature ? And of G. F.'s Faith , who denyeth , That Christ's Body was from the Earth ? But yet more fully to detect their Fallacies . Whereas G. W. saith , Their really Believing and Confessing Christ's Passion , Sufferings , Death , Atonement , and Reconciliation , made for us , &c. cannot be to allegorize these away , as if only tranfacted within us , as we have been unduly accused . To detect his Fallacy here , Note , I know none that accuse them , for holding that Christ's Birth and Death was only transacted within them ; they grant that a Man call'd Jesus of Nazareth , was outwardly Born and Suffered Death ; but some of the chief of them have said , That that Man was not properly the Christ , nor Son of God , but was by the metonymy of the thing Containing for the thing Contained so called ; so W. P. as above-quoted . Next they make his being outwardly Slain , and his Blood outwardly Shed , and what was outwardly transacted by him , both Actively and Passively , a Figure of what he was to do and suffer in Men , of his inward Crucifying , his Blood inwardly Shed , his Burial , Resurrection , and Ascension within them . These outward transactions , saith W. P. are so many facile representations of what was to be accomplished in Men , as above-quoted , and G. W. beside the Proofs already given out of his Books to that Effect , he hath lately affirmed in his * Antidote against the Venom of the Snake , Printed in the Year 1697 , That that Blood of his [ viz. Christ's outward Blood ] as well as the Water that came out of his Side with it , had an ALLEGORICAL and MYSTERIOUS SIGNIFICATION , as well as an Outward and Literal , even of the Spiritual Blood and Water of Life , which Christ , our High Priest , Sprinkleth , and really Washeth our Hearts and Consciences withal , which , we hope , no sensible Soul will say , is an Outward or Literal Sprinkling or Washing , but an Inward and Spiritual . Note , When we charge G. W. and his Brethren with Allegorizing away Christ's Birth , Passion , Death , Burial , Resurrection , Blood , Atonement , and Reconciliation made for us , &c. the sense is obvious , which is this , That tho' they grant , that a Man called Christ was outwardly Born , Dyed , had his Blood shed , &c. yet all this was an Allegory , and had an Allegorical Signification of Christ truly and really ( without an Allegory ) Born within them , Crucified and Dead within them , his Blood shed within them , Buried , Risen , Ascended within them ; Atonement , Reconciliation made within them . Now , that this is so , we have G. W.'s plain Confession , in the Words just now quoted . So that , according to him , Christ's Sufferings without , his Blood shed without , is the Allegory , or Allegorical Signification of Christ's Sufferings within , of his Blood shed within , the Atonement made within , as Hagar and Sarah , who were real Women , yet as Paul hath declar'd , they are an Allegory of the Two Covenants , and Types or Figures of them , and as far short of the things signified by them , as the Type is short of the Substance , or thing signified ; for that is the true definition of an Allegory , Where one thing is expressed , and another thing is understood . Now if Christ's Birth , Sufferings , Blood , &c. without Men , be an Allegory , or Allegorical Signification of Christ's Birth , Sufferings , Blood shed and sprinkled within Men ; that Within must be the Reality , or Excellent thing signified , or typified by the outward ; but both cannot be the Allegory , as to say , that as Christ's Blood without us is the Allegory of his Blood within , so his Blood within is the Allegory of Christ's Blood without ; this is as great Nonsense , as who would say , as Hagar and Sarah were an Allegory of the Two Covenants , so the Two Covenants are an Allegory of Hagar and Sarah . And thus G. W. and his Brethren stand justly charged with Allegorizing away Christ's outward Birth , Sufferings , Blood , Atonement , by making them the Allegory of his Birth , Sufferings , Blood , Atonement , made within Men , tho' they deny not Christ's Birth , Death , Blood without , simply as Historically related ; yet seeing they deny the Merit and Efficacy of his Death and Blood without , and of what he did and suffered without us , they are justly charg'd to Allegorize it away , that is , to make no other account of it , than of the History of Hagar and Sarah , and other Types , Symbols and Allegories of the Old Testament . Besides , If Men will be wilful denyers of the Historical Truth of Christ's outward Birth , Death , Burial , Resurrection , Ascension , according to G. W.'s and his Brethren's way and method of expounding Scripture , we have no way to convince them of their Error . If we bring Isaiah 9. 6. to prove that Isaiah Prophesied of Christ's Birth , and that the Child that should be Born , should be both God and Man , and his Mother should be a Virgin , according to Isaiah 7. 14. And if we bring Isaiah 53. to prove that Christ should be wounded for our Sins , be killed , be buried , and make his grave with the wicked ; or , That Christ should suffer without the Camp ; they may Answer , All these , and the like places , are to be meant not of any Birth , Death or Burial of a Christ without us , but of Christ Born , Slain , and Buried in Men ; and , for their Proof , vouch G. W.'s Authority and his Brethren's to confirm it , who , as above-quoted , have expounded these places of Christ Born , Slain , Buried , within Men. But if G. W. will say , these and other the like places have two meanings , one Outward and Literal , and the other Inward and Spiritual ; to this I say , First , G. W. in his Voice of Wisdom , pag 21. hath severely blamed his Opponent T. D. for giving two meanings to one place . I agree to the most Judicious and Orthodox Expositors of Scripture , that the Scriptures have but one sense or meaning , properly and strictly speaking , viz. That the thing principally and properly intended , is but one , and what other senses or meanings may be put upon some places of Scripture , besides that , is rather an Allusion or Allegory , than the real meaning , which , so far as we have Scripture warrant , is allowed , as Paul's calling Hagar and Sarah an Allegory , but otherwise is dangerous , and in the present case is most Heretical , as in G. W.'s and his Brethrens making Christ's Birth , Sufferings , Death , Burial without Men the Allegory , and his Birth , Sufferings , Death , Burial , within , the Reality and Substance , or thing principally intended in these places of Scripture . That the Spirit of God , with his sanctifying Gifts and Graces , is called Water of Life , and Living Waters , whereby God doth really Purify and Cleanse the Hearts and Consciences of the Faithful ; and that this Work of Sanctification is Inward and Spiritual in them , is no part of the Dispute or Controversie ; for this is not only granted , but earnestly taught and pleaded for against Pelagians and others who deny it , or at least the necessity of such an inward and spiritual Operation . Therefore G. W. in this , as in most of his late Defences , doth purposely mistake the true Case , to hide his vile Heresie , as if the debate betwixt him and his Opponents , were only about the inward Operations of the Spirit of God , for the cleansing and sanctifying the Hearts of the Faithful ; but this is his ordinary Fallacy . The true state of the Question then is this , Whether there is any Inward Blood or Water that Christ Crucified in Men lets out , or is pressed out of him , crucified within them , that is the Blood of Atonement , is the Price and Ransom , and Meritorious Cause of the Remission of our Sins ; is the satisfactory and propitiatory Offering for Sin , either in whole or in part ? Also , whether any such supposed Blood or Water or Spirit , thus flowing from Christ , as Crucified and Wounded within Men , is the meritorious and procuring Cause either of Men's Justification before God , or of the saving and sanctifying Graces of the Holy Spirit ; and whether the Gift of the Holy Spirit , given to Believers , with the sanctifying Graces thereof , proceeds from Christ Crucified within , having made the Atonement and Satisfaction by his Blood shed within , Risen and Ascended within , Sitting at the Right Hand of God within Men , making Intercession for them ; or from Christ , as he was crucified without us , having made the Atonement and Satisfaction without us , by his Blood shed without us , Risen and Ascended and sat down at the Right Hand of God without us , and there Interceding for us . This is the true state of the Controversie ; all true Christians say , that all this is from Christ without us ; as outwardly Born , Crucified , Risen , Ascended , from him thus only considered as without us ; all Believers have the free gift of the Remission of Sins , free Justification freely by God's Grace [ being the real effect of Christ's Purchase , and of the Merit of his Precious Blood ] and also the Holy Spirit , with the sanctifying Gifts and Graces thereof , inwardly to renew and sanctifie them . So that the Work of Christ or of the Spirit in Believers , is not at all , either in whole or in part , to suffer for our Sins , or to procure by way of Merit , the pardon of our Sins , and our Peace and Reconcliation with God , for that 's wholly and only done by Christ without us ; but to work the sincere Faith of all that he hath done and suffer'd for us without us , and give us the Spiritual Knowledge and Comfort of it , in our Hearts and Souls . The Plaister and healing Medicine of Christ's Body and Blood was prepared for us , when he gave his Precious Body to be broken for us , and his Blood to be shed for us ; this was once done , and is no more to be doue again ; Christ having once dyed , dyeth no more ; by the one Offering of himself once only offered without us [ his Soul , Body , and Blood ] he hath intirely and completely prepared the wholsom Medicine and Food of Life for us : But now the work of Christ , and his Spirit in us , is to apply it effectually to us [ that is ] to enable us effectually to apply it to our selves for our Eternal Health and Salvation ; to give us a Spiritual discovery and sight of that living Food , a Hunger and Appetite after it , and to teach us spiritually by Faith to receive it , and feed upon it , to eat his Flesh , and drink his Blood , not by the bodily Mouth , but by the Mouth of the Soul , which is Faith , a true and living Faith wrought in us by the powerful Operation of Christ in us , or his Spirit . And tho' the Blood of Christ that both justifieth and sanctifieth is without us , yet the application by Faith is within , both for our Justification and Sanctification . Note . again , That as G. W. doth fallaciously state the Question , concerning Men's being Cleansed , i. e. Justified and Sanctified by the Blood of Christ , as is above-shewed , so he argueth most fallaciously for his false Notion of a Blood of Christ within Men , to be the Atonement , by the merit whereof they are Cleansed from Sin ; as because the Operation of the Spirit of God is within Men , whereby he applieth to them the Merit , Virtue and Efficacy of Christ's Blood , ( which application , by a Metaphorical Speech is call'd in Scripture , A sprinkling the Conscience , ) that therefore the Blood of Christ is Inward ; which is the like Sophistical and Nonsensical Argument with that of G. F. The Saints eat the Flesh of Christ , therefore they have it in them . Thus they both argue from a Metaphorical Eating and Sprinkling or Cleansing to a Literal or Material ; as because what Men eat of Material Food , they receive it into them ; so because they eat Christs Flesh , they have it in them ; and because the Blood of Christ Sprinkles the Hearts and Consciences of the Faithful , therefore that Blood is in them , not considering the application here , both with respect to Eating and Sprinkling , is not Material but Spiritual , by Faith , as Christ hath plainly explained it , that to eat Christ is to believe in him ; to eat his Flesh and drink his Blood , is sincerely to believe with the Heart , that Christ gave his Body of Flesh to be broken for us , and his Blood to be shed for us , for the Remission of our Sins , and both for our Justification and Sanctification , and eternal Salvation . Joh. 6. 35. He that cometh to me shall never hunger , he that believeth in me shall never thirst ; and verse 40. This is the will of him that sent me , that every one which seeth the Son , and believeth on him , may have everlasting life , and I will raise him up at the last day . Again , Whereas they say in that Printed Paper above-quoted , signed by G. W. and Thirty more , We do highly value his Death , Sufferings , Works , Offices and Merits for the Redemption and Salvation of Mankind . That all this is extremely Fallacious doth largely appear from what is above-quoted : Do they highly value his Death and Sufferings , when some among them have Printed , as above-quoted , That when they come to the Operation of the Spirit or Light Within them , they will cease remembring Christs Death at Jerusalem . Do they value Christ's Sufferings and Death , &c. who deny it to be the Gospel that Christ impowered the Apostles to Preach ; for which hear what they say in their Book above-quoted , call'd , A Testimony for the true Christ , &c. p. 16. Their Opponent they quote saying , [ p. 16. ] Christ impowered the Apostles to go forth to Preach the Gospel to the ends of the Earth ; which Gospel was his Sufferings , Death and Resurrection , Baptizing in the Name of the Father , Son , and Holy Ghost , &c. To this they Answer , The Gospel which they Preached was Everlasting , it was the Power of God to Salvation , to as many as Believed both of Jews and Gentiles ; But were his Sufferings , Death , &c. Everlasting ? Is this good Doctrine , say they . So that according to them , it is not good Doctrine , but bad , to Preach Christ's Sufferings , Death , &c. to be the Gospel either in whole or in part ; for their reason is of equal force against that Doctrine either in whole or in part , The Gospel is Everlasting , but Christ's Death and Sufferings , &c. [ Note the &c. which both the Opponent and they add ] is not Everlasting , for that they say was Temporal , therefore Christ's Death and Sufferings is not the Gospel ; and by this their profound Logick , or rather beggarly Sophistry , nothing is the Gospel , but that which is Everlasting , i. e. was from Eternity to Eternity ; and thus , according to them , nothing is the Gospel , but the Light Within , because that is Everlasting ; the Power , the Spirit , the Light is Everlasting , and therefore that only is the Gospel . But tho' the Spirit , and Power , and Light , was and is Everlasting , yet it was not within them from Everlasting , because they were not from Everlasting ; and therefore by their Logick , as the Light or Spirit is in them , and as t●● Gift of God to them , it is no more the Gospel , than Christ's Death and Sufferings , &c. because they had it not within them from Everlasting , if they will acknowledge themselves to be Creatures , Created and Made by the Great Creator in Time. But they quibble Sophistically upon the word Everlasting ; for tho' Christ's Suffering and Death were not Everlasting , yet both the Merit , Virtue and Efficacy of them , both for procuring Remission of Sin , and the Holy Spirit with the sanctifying Gifts and Graces thereof , was from the beginning of the World , and will continue to the end of the World ; yea , and to all Eternity ; and the Doctrine of it in some measure was Preached from the beginning , as God revealed it first to our first Parents , and then successively to others of his Holy Prophets , and was held forth , both by Prophecy , Promise and Sacrifices to the Faithful . Again , They are grosly Fallacious , when they say in that Printed Paper , We do highly value and esteem his Sufferings , Death , Precious Blood , and whole Sacrifice for Sinners — Works , Offices , and Merits for the Redemption and Salvation of Mankind . But , what do they mean by Christ's Merits ? Do they mean the Merits of what Christ hath done for them , without them , suffered without them , his Righteonsness without them , his Blood shed without them , so as thereby to be justified ? Nay , The following Quotations will sufficiently evidence the contrary ; viz. That not the Righteousness or Merits , or Blood of Christ shed without us , but the Merits of Christ within them , his Righteousness wrought in them , his Blood shed within them , the Blood of his Divinity or Godhead , but not of his Humanity or Humane Blood , by which they are justified ; for further proof of which hear what G. W. saith in his Voice of Wisdom , p. 48. where he blames T. Danson , and chargeth it on him to be false Doctrine held by him , That there were two Righteousnesses of Christ , the one without the Saints to justifie them , and the other within the Saints that did sanctifie them . And in p. 26. he chargeth T. Danson with Ignorance , for his asserting two Righteousnesses of Christ , [ the one without us for Justification , the other within us for Sanctification . ] And in p. 35. He argueth against Justification by a Righteousness of Christ without us , thus , If it be the same Christ that justifies and Janctifies , then it 's but one and the same Righteousness , which effecteth both these in and for the Saints . And in p. 19. he expresly defends that Popish Argument used by S. Fisher , [ the very same Argument is used by Bellarmin , De Justif . ] That because evil Works are meritorious of Condemnation , therefore good Works [ wrought by us in the Spirit ] are a meritorious cause of our Justification : But T. Danson doth effectually Answer the Argument , by denying the Consequence ; and that it can have no force unless the good Works we work , even by the help of the Spirit , were , in all respects , Perfect and Sinless , and that we had always perfectly fulfilled the Law from first to last , which no Man ever did but Christ . And he gives another good reason , why he denyeth the Consequence , Because the Righteousness which God works in us is but Finite , as well as other effects ; his sense is obvious , No Righteousness can Merit our Justification before God , but that which is of an Infinite value ; and therefore the Righteousness of a meer Man , had it been Perfect and Sinless from the first moment of his Life to his Death , could not be of Merit for the Justification of others ; and , indeed , strictly speaking , not of Merit for his own Justification ; he could only have been justified by his own good Works ( assisted to do them by the Spirit ) by fulfilling the terms of the Law or Covenant of Works ; but because Christ was not meer Man , but both God and Man , therefore his Righteousness and Obedience is of that Infinite Value and Merit , that is sufficient for all that lay hold on it for Justification by a true and lively Faith. Now to both these good and solid Reasons G. W. Answers most Ignorantly ; First in asserting , That the good Works which we work by the Spirit , or which the Spirit works in us are Perfect , and are the fulfilling of the Law , and therefore deserving Justification ; but to this I have answered above , and discovered his Ignorance , [ see the First Part , p. 13. ] To his 2d Reason G. W. Answers , The Righteousness which God effects in us is not Finite , but Infinite , [ Voice of Wisdom , p. 36. ] for Christ is God's Righteousness , and Christ is formed in us , Gal. 4. 19. and so that Righteousness which God works in us by his Spirit , is of the same Kind and Nature with that which worketh it , for the Saints are made partakers of the Divine Nature . Thus we see , how he magnifies the Righteousness wrought by the Spirit in Men ; not only to be Perfect with a Sinless Perfection , but DEIPIES it , so as to make it equal to God himself , arguing that the Righteousness which God works in us , is of the same Nature with that which worketh it ; surely whatever is of the same Nature with God , is equal to God , yea , is God ; for , because Christ , as he is the Eternal Word , is of the same Nature with God , therefore he is equal with God , and is God. But , observe a prodigious Fallacy in G. W. to defend his Blasphemy . In his Truth and Innoc. p. 60. in defence of that passage above-quoted out of his Voice of Wisdom , he saith , My meaning simply of the word [ Infinite ] was that God's Righteousness , which he effects in us , is Everlasting , and without end , Psal . 119. 142. And Christ is said to be of God made unto us Wisdom and Righteousness , and Sanctification and Redemption , 1 Cor. 1. 30. I hope ( saith he ) none will deny him to be Infinite , or his work of Righteousness , and the effect thereof to be quietness and assurance for ever . And thus he would heal himself by giving us his sense of the word Infinite , that he meant simply , that it was Everlasting and without end . But to detect this prodigiously dull Sophistry , [ I call it not prodigious for the Wit of it , but the Dulness of it , ] the nature of G. W.'s Argument did not only carry the sense of the word Infinite to be endless , but to be every way Infinite , his Argument being grounded on this , That that Righteousness which God worketh in us is of the same Kind and Nature with that which worketh it : Now the Nature of God is not only endless , but Infinite every way ; his Righteousness and Holiness not only extendeth beyond all Times and Ages , but beyond all Degrees and Measures of Created Perfection . But whatever sense the word Infinite may be allowed in other cases to have ; as to say a Nation is Infinitely Rich , as Nahum 3. 9. yet in this case of the Controversie betwixt T. Danson and G. W. the word Infinite can have no such limited or strained sense ; neither did T. Danson understand it in that sense , as only to signifie Endless . And G. W. did he know the true Law of Disputants , should know , That when he answereth to his Opponent's Argument , he should take the word of his Opponent in the sense of his Opponent , because the force of the Argument lies upon that sense . For T. Danson's Argument had not this sense , That because the Righteousness that God works in Men , is not Endless , therefore it is not Meritorious of Justification ; for granting it to be Endless [ that is , Infinite in G. W.'s sense ] as the Apostle Paul saith of Charity , it never faileth , every degree of it is Endless ; but it will not therefore follow , that it is meritorious of Justification , because it hath no end of duration , for so the Soul it self should be meritorious of Justification , because it is Endless ; yea , the Souls of bad Men and Devils are Endless and Infinite in G. W.'s sense ; do they therefore merit Justification ? But the force of T. Danson's Argument lyeth in this , That Righteousness alone can be meritorious of our Justification before God , that is Infinite in Value and Worth ( that is ) equivalent , and infinitely more than equivalent , to the Righteousness , not only of all the most holy Angels that never sinned , but of all the Men , that ever lived or shall live , had they ( by Supposition ) lived as holily and righteously as the holy Law of God required them to live from first to last ; yet such a Righteousness as this , of all such holy Angels and Men , being but a Finite Righteousness with respect to its intrinsick worth and value , could not be sufficiently meritorious for the Justification of one Man that has sinned , tho' suppose but once all his Life time . But because the Righteousness of Christ , to wit , his most holy and perfect Obedience , which he performed without us , was not the Righteousness of a meer Man , but of him , who was both God and Man , therefore it is an Infinite Righteousness , i. e. of Infinite value before God , by way of merit to obtain the Justification of true Penitents and Believers ; and when sound Christian-Teachers say , The Righteousness of Christ , which he performed without us , for our Justification , is an Infinite Righteousness , they mean not that it was Physically Infinite , but Morally , i. e. of Infinite value before God , by reason of the Hypostatical Union of the Humane Nature of Christ with the Essential and Eternal Word . But G. W. thought to excuse S. F. and himself from the imputation of Popery , on the Point of Justification , and that very handsomly , why ? because the Quakers say , It 's only the works that they work by the Spirit 's help , that are meritorious of Justification . But this will not excuse them from Popery ; for even Bellarmine , a great Popish Author , and the other Popish Authors , plead only for the merit of such good Works , ( which merit by Condignity , ) as wrought by the help of the Holy Spirit assisting them . And his Sophistry is as dull , in his drawing an Argument from 1 Cor. 1 , 30. That Christ is made unto us of God , Wisdom and Righteousness , and Sanctification and Redemption , therefore that Believers are justified by an Infinite Righteousness wrought in them , and that Christ is formed in them , Gal. 4. 19. And thus he will have Christ , as held forth in that Text , 1 Cor. 1. 30. not to be Christ God-Man without us , from and by whom we receive Justification and Redemption , and also divine Wisdom and Sanctification , by his holy Spirit that he sendeth into our Hearts , and by his holy Doctrine outwardly taught us , but Christ formed in us ; he will have to be all this unto us , and Christ formed in us is the Seed , and the Seed is God over all blessed for ever , as above-quoted , both out of G. W. and W. P. But what then is become of his Exposition that he gave in his Judgment Fixed above-quoted , That this Birth , viz. Christ formed in true Believers , is not Christ Jesus ; for he is that incorruptible Seed and Word of Life , which begets , forms and brings forth the Soul of Man into his own Nature and Image ; and so Christ may be said to be formed in us in a Mysterious and Elegant way of speaking , the Property and Effect being put for the Cause . Thus we see how he wavers to and fro , betwixt So and No , and No and So , sometimes This , and sometimes That : and sometimes neither This nor That ; a Phrase that S. F. used to some of his Opponents , but very justly apply'd to G. W. But differing senses and meanings are more tolerable for a Man to put on his Words , than plain contradictions , and especially in Matters Fundamental , as these are . Next , let us hear what W. P. hath said on the Doctrine of Justification , and how J. Wyeth in his Switch defends him . W. Penn in his Serious Apology p. 148 , gives the charge of his Opponent thus , That we deny Justification by the Righteousness which Christ hath fulfilled in his own Person for us ( wholly without us ) and therefore deny the Lord that bought us ; W. P. Answers ; And indeed this we deny and boldly affirm it in the Name of the Lord , to be the Doctrine of Devils , and an Arm of the Sea of Corruption , which does now deluge the whole World. What saith Jos . Wyeth , that hardy Champion , to this , Switch p. 238. Yes it is still true , and that we do deny , and boldly affirm to be the Doctrine of Devils ; and for our so denying and affirming , we have the warrant of Holy Writ , wherein is abundantly testifyed of the Spirit of Christ in Man , to which he must be obedient in order to his Justification ; for which he quotes Rom. 3. 24 , 28. Rom. 5. 1. Titus 3. 7. and concludes then not wholly without us . Note , Here J. Wyeth acts the dull Sophister as much as his Elder Brother G. W. by perverting the true state of the Question , as is their frequent manner . The Question is not , What is necessary , by way of Instrument or Instrumental Application , or Preparatory Condition , in order to Justification ; such as Faith and Repentance ; for such are granted to be necessary in order to Justification , as the stretching out the Hand is necessary to receive an Alms , or free Gift , and the opening the Mouth is necessary to receive Food ; but the true state of the Question is , What is the procuring and purchasing Cause of our Justification before God , by way of Merit , or the Meritorious Cause of our Justification ; whether the Righteousness of Christ that he wrought without us , by his Active and Passive Obedience , above Sixteen Hundred Years ago , Yea , or Nay ; If Yea , surely that is wholly without us ; but this says W. P. and J. W. is a Doctrine of Devils ; and G. W. chargeth T. D. with ignorance and false Doctrine for affirming it , as above-quoted ; and yet it is the very plain Doctrine of the Holy Scriptures , Isa . 53. 4 , 5 , 11 , 12. Rom. 3. 21 , 22 , 23 , 24 , 25 , 28. Rom. 4. 4 , 11. Rom. 5. 18. Gal. 3. 22. 2 Cor. 5. 21. There are other Arguments which W. P. useth in his Serious Apology , some of which I shall mention , not to refute them , for the least Child in Christianity may do that , but to show his Error ; one of which is , Death came by actual Sin , not imputative , therefore Justification unto Life comes by actual Righteousness , and not imputative . Another is , This speaks Peace to the Wicked . Another is , Men are Dead and Alive at the same time by this Doctrine . Note , He perverts the state of the Question ; his Opponents do not say , That Wicked and Unsanctified Persons are justified ; but if none be justified , but who are Perfect vvith a Sinless Perfection , and have not the least impurity , then neither W. P. nor any Quaker , ever vvas , or is justified ; for vvhatever they boast of their Sinless Perfection , their vile Errors , Pride and Uncharitableness , as vvell as other their Imperfections , demonstrate the contrary . Another of his Arguments is against our Justification by Christ's Righteousness without us , Our rejoycing must be in our selves and not in another ; thus perverting Paul's Words , Gal. 6. 4. But let every Man prove his own work , and then shall he have rejoycing in himself , and not in another . But doth this exclude our rejoycing in Christ Jesus our Head. who to be sure is another ? O sad ! How contrary to this is Philip 3. 3. For we are the Circumcision , which worship God in the Spirit , and rejoyce in Christ Jesus , and have no confidence in the Flesh ; by this Argument of W. P. he for himself and his Brethren ( whose Faith he pretends to deliver ) renounces all Rejoycing , as well as Faith and Righteousness , in Christ without us ; yea , and in Christ within them also ; for Christ within them , if he be within them , is Another . Dare W. P. or G. W. say , Christ in W. P. or G. W. is W. P. or G. W. But whereas G. W. in his Printed Paper above-quoted , call'd , A Few Positions , &c. saith , We highly do value and esteem his ( Christ's ) Sufferings , Death , Precious Blood , and whole Sacrifice for Sinners : For a Proof of his Insincerity and Sophistry in this , I shall produce some following Quotations , what G. W. means by his Precious Blood , and whether he put the due value upon Christ's Blood that was outwardly shed , or upon another sort of inward Blood , I cannot say of his and his Brethrens inventing , but what they received from Familists and Ranters , tho' they pretend to have it by immediate Inspiration , to wit , an inward Blood , that is the Atonement and Sacrifice for Sin , which Blood G. W. will not allow to be the Blood of Christ's Humanity , but of his Godhead . G. W. in his Truth Defended , p. 66. quotes C. Wade saying , The Lord hath Bought us and Redeemed us , with the Precious Blood of his Humanity , and saith your imagined Christ [ viz. their Notion of a Christ , whose Blood is shed within them ] never had any Humane Blood to Redeem you with ; and to prove it , he brings 1 Pet. 1. 19. G. W. Answers , That Scripture , 1 Pet. 1. hast thou perverted , as thou hast done other Scriptures , to thy own Destruction ; for there he witnesses to the Blood of the Lamb , which Redeemed them from their vain Conversation , but doth not tell them of Humane Blood to Redeem them with ; for that which is Humane is Earthly , but Christ whose Blood is Spiritual is Lord from Heaven , and he is not an imagined Spirit , but a true Spirit . And what say'st thou to this ? Was that Humane Blood , which Christ saith , Except a Man drink he hath no Life in him , and which cleansed the Saints from all Sin , who were Flesh of Christ's Flesh , and Bone of his Bone. Note , Thus we see what Blood G. W. esteems the Precious Blood of Christ , not his Humane Blood , or Blood of his Humanity , and that not only he denyeth that we are Redeemed or Cleansed by any Blood of his Humanity , but denyeth that Christ had any Humane Blood , or Blood of Humanity , and giveth his Reason against it , That Humane is Earthly , but Christ , whose Blood is Spiritual , is Lord from Heaven . But again , For a further evidence of his undervaluing the outward Blood of Christ , and denying it to be that Blood by which Christ purchased his Church , in his Light and Life , p. 56. It is confessed ( saith he ) that God by his own Blood purchased to himself a Church , Acts 20. 28. Now the Blood of God , or that Blood that relates to God , must needs be Spiritual , he being a Spirit , and the Covenant of God is Inward and Spiritual . Note , This Quotation was lately published in the Printed Sheet , call'd , An Account from Colchester , above-mention'd ; to which Seven Quakers at Colchester have given a pretended Answer , call'd , Some Account from Colchester , &c. In their Answer to this Quotation , they quibble Sophistically upon the Word Spiritual . We would ask these Men ( say they ) if God's own Blood be not Spiritual , whether it be Carnal , and the Blood of his Covenant such also ? But was not the Blood that was outwardly shed on the Cross , which John said he saw , and bare Record , real material Blood , as really as that of other Men : And granting it to be Spiritual , as Spiritual signifies Holy , as a Holy Man is a Spiritual Man , and yet is a Carnal Man with respect to his Body of Flesh , yet it was Material and Corporal . But G. W. by Spiritual meant inward Blood , in Men and Women ; and so expressed it ; The Covenant ( saith he ) is Inward and Spiritual , and so is the Blood of it ; so that Spiritual and Inward are with him Synonymous . But , for a further Answer , they quote a passage in G. W.'s Antidote , p. 233 , 234. where he grants , contrary to his former Doctrine , That God purchased his Church , by Christ's Natural or Outward Blood , but not only by that , but principally by the Spiritual Blood or Life of Christ Jesus ; and this Spiritual Blood he holds to be Inward in Men , The Blood is the Life , and the Life is the Light of Men , as W. Bailie phrased it , perverting and confounding two sundry Texts of Scripture . But the tenor and tendency of G. W.'s former Arguments were altogether against Redemption or Justification , by any natural or outward Blood whatsoever ; for Humane is Natural ; but Humane Blood G. W. would by no means admit to be the Blood of Christ , by which Men are Redeemed : So now he will have God's own Blood to be no less than his own dear Son , and the Blood to be both Natural and Outward , and Spiritual and Inward , by which we are Redeemed ; meaning by Inward Blood , his Life , Power and Spirit , in Men and Women ; and yet , in contradiction to himself , he saith , God's sparing not his own Son , but delivering him up for us all , includes the whole Sacrifice of Christ in Soul and Body , which were offered . Note , If Christ's Soul and Body without us , were the whole Sacrifice , the outward Blood being a part of his Body , then his Spirit , Life and Light in us , is no part of the Sacrifice ; and yet in contradiction to this in his Light and Life , p. 44. He brings several Arguments and Scriptures , but all grosly perverted to prove That Christ in us , offers up himself a living Sacrifice , refering to W. Burnets Book , cap. prim . p. 31. Where the words are more largely quoted thus , out of W. Smiths Primmer . We believe that Christ in us , doth offer up himself a living Sacrifice unto God for us , by which the Wrath and Justice of God is appeased towards us . This layeth the whole stress upon Christ within Men , being the offering ; but now G. W. would seem to give one part to Christ without , and another part to Christ within Men to be the offering , and to the Blood shed without , that was Natural and Outward , and to the Blood shed within Men , that is Spiritual and Inward . But then surely he gives very little to the Blood shed without , that was but once , and was Natural Blood , the Blood of the Humanity ; but he gives very much to the Inward Blood shed within Men , which is a more excellent Blood ; it is the Blood not of the Humanity , but of the Divinity , and is shed many Thousands , yea , Millions of times , for it is shed in all Men , who have lived in several Ages of the World : And thus Christ hath offered up himself Inwardly Millions of times , and had his Blood inwardly shed to appease the Wrath and Justice of God ; but this is directly contrary to the Scripture , that saith , That Christ by one Offering hath for ever perfected them that are Sanctified ; and by one Offering , once offered , not often offered , he hath appeared to put away sin ; and , as was Prophesied of him , a Body thou hast prepared me , not two Bodies , or many Bodies : And as Christ had not two Bodies to be offered for our Sins , so nor had he two Bloods , the Scripture never mentioneth any Blood of Christ but one ; we no where read in Scripture of the Bloods of Christ , plural , but of Blood , singular . And according to G. W. the Blood of Christ , in his former Books , is but one , and that is the Inward Blood , the Blood of his Divinity , but not of his Humanity ; yea , he hath denyed the Body of Christ to be any part of him , whereof he consisteth , as above-quoted , and consequently , nor was the outward Blood , shed on the Cross , any part of him . But suppose it were allowed to call the Spirit of Christ in Believers , or the sanctifying and refreshing Influences thereof , his Blood , by way of metaphor , as Wine is call'd in Scripture , the Blood of the Grape , and Christ calleth himself the Vine , and Believers in him the Branches , yet by no means can the Spirit , or influence thereof in Men , be call'd the Blood shed for remission of Sin , the Blood of Atonement , that by way of Merit and Satisfaction to Divine Justice , removes the guilt of Sin , and makes Peace betwixt God and Men ; for whatever Sacrifice makes Atonement for Sin , must be Slain , and the Blood of the Sacrifice shed or poured forth , as the Beasts that were offered for Sin under the Law , behoved to be Slain , and their Blood to be shed , which were Types of Christ , who was outwardly to be slain , and his Blood outwardly shed , for without shedding of Blood there is no remission , as the Scripture testifieth ; the which sheding of Blood must be by the Death of that , whose Body was to be Slain : Now the pouring and shedding of the Spirit of Christ , and his Graces and Gracious influences into the Hearts of the Faithful , is the effect of Christ's Death without us , as he was outwardly Slain and offered up for us , by way of Merit and Purchase as it is also the effect of his Mediation and Intercession for us now in Heaven by way of impetration and actual dispensation , having received power to give those gifts to Men , as he is now at Gods Right Hand in Heaven , in his glorified Humanity , which he procured and purchased for them , when he was upon Earth , in his state of Humiliation , by the proper Merit of his Obedience , both Active and Passive , who humbled himself and became obedient unto Death , even the Death of the Cross ; wherefore God hath exalted him , to be a Prince and a Saviour . And therefore it is , that the Blood of Christ by which he made peace for us , is called the Blood of the Cross , because it was shed , and poured forth on the Cross , and he is said to have reconciled us in his Body of Flesh , through Death ; all which bespeaks that our Redemption , and Reconciliation by way of Purchase and Merit , was wholly done and transacted by Christ without us , and could not be done within us , by way of Sacrifice and Atonement , for that required the Sacrifice to be Slain , and the Blood thereof to be shed and poured forth . But the Authors of this abominable Heresie , which teacheth that Christ in Man by his Blood shed in them , is the offering for Sin , and the Blood thus shed in them , is the Blood of Atonement , yea , the Blood of the Cross within them , to make things seemingly consist and hang together , they have invented an Inward Crucifixion and Killing of Christ in Men , as well as an inward shedding of his Blood in them , to answer , by way of Analogy , to the outward Killing of the Sacrifices under the old Testament . But when this Crucifying or Killing of Christ in Men , was , beside many other questions about the manner of it , they are put hard to it to resolve , and indeed the resolution of it is impossible , for it implys not only manifest contradictions to Scripture , but to all true and right Reason , as much as the Popish Transubstantiation doth . For as nothing can be properly said , to have been Killed , but what was formerly alive ; If Christ has been Killed , suppose in every Quaker , he behoved to be first alive in them ; and as Christ in the Figure or Type , ( as some of them call him ) was Born long before he was outwardly crucified ; for though when he was a Child , Herod sought his Life , yet by his being taken by his Mother into Egypt , he was preserved ; and this very passage , of Christ's being persecuted by Herod , soon after he was Born , the Quakers have made an Allegory , not that the inward is the Allegory of the outward [ which were somewhat tolerable , as some of the Ancients have so Allegorized , though some went too far even so ] but the outward is the Allegory of the inward , and as then there passed some considerable space of time betwixt Christ's typical Birth in the outward , and his typical Crucifixion ; so that being about Twelve Years of Age , he disputed with the Doctors , and about Thirty he began his Ministry , wherein he continued for about three Years and a half , and then was Crucified ; after he was Betrayed by Judas , denyed by Peter , and Sentenced to Death by Pontius Pilate , falsly Accused , and cruelly Mocked by the Jews ; all which , according to W. P. are so many Facile representations of what is to be accomplished in Men. And I have heard , since the difference betwixt the Quakers and me began , about Preaching Christ without , some of their Preachers in their Publick Meetings , Preach a great deal of the History of Christ's Birth , Persecution by Herod and the Jews , Betrayed by Judas , denyed by Peter , Sentenced to Death by Pilate , and made it all an Allegory of what was to be witnessed within , with an Exhortation to Friends to wait to have it all fulfilled and witnessed within them : And particularly I heard Jacob Talner , the Dutch-man above-mention'd , Preach at a Publick Meeting in Philadelphia [ about the time our differences began there about Christ ] That Christ must be first Born in us , and after that must be Crucified in us , &c. On which I asked some of their Preachers , Were it not better , after Christ is Born in Men ( using their Phrase ) that Men would not Crucifie him in them , but rather that he might live in them ? For who can Crucifie Christ in Men , but they themselves ( on supposition that he can be Crucified ? ) For the Devil cannot do it by himself without Men's consent and concurrence , and being the main Actors : But G. F. whom J. Wyeth calls the Apostle in this Age , hath resolved this Question ; but whether effectually so as either consistent with Scripture or true and right Reason , to which no true Revelation can contradict , I leave to the intelligent Christian to judge , in a Treatise of his , call'd , Several Papers given forth for the spreading of Truth , one of them bearing this Title , Concerning Christ's Flesh which was Offered , p. 54. Christ the Lamb slain from the Foundation of the World , when it began its Foundation , then the Lamb was slain , then the World was set up in Man's Heart , that he did not see the beginning nor the ending of the Works of God ; — Then came their Understandings to be darken'd , and Christ ACCORDING TO THE FLESH CRUCIFIED , the Lamb Slain , that FLESH of his , which is a Mystery ; and when the Jews did transgress the Law of God , the Prophets told them , they OPPRESSED the Seed , as a Cart with Sheaves . [ Note , the word Oppressed , tho' G. W. is so impudent in his Judgment Fixed , p. 322. as to deny that the Seed is Christ and God that is Oppressed ] — That they may come to a thing that 's lower and under , and higher and over all , and before all that is the Righteousness it self ; so in this lies the Belief , so then in the Life and in the SUBSTANCE , and in the end of all Types , so through this Flesh he doth reconcile , and by the offering up his Body , his Flesh , that which hath been Slain from the Foundation of the World , and yet never corrupted : — And this Flesh is a Mystery ; and in this Flesh is the Belief that takes away the Sin , that never corrupted , that is the Offering for Sin , and the Blood of this Flesh clear seth from Sin ; so through this Offering is the Reconciliation , through the Offering of his Flesh that never corrupted , but takes away Corruptions , and his Blood Cleanseth from Corrup●ions , THE LIFE READ . See the Quotation more at large in my Third Narrative , p. 24 , 25. And it is observable that he saith with respect to Christ being thus inwardly Crucified , for as he was God he did not die , but whether he did suffer as he was God , he doth not here determine , tho' G. W. hath determined it , as above-quoted , That Christ as God doth suffer in Men by their Sins . Note , Whereas many of the Quakers , particularly G. W. doth argue against Christ without us being the object of Faith ; Can ( saith he ) the object of Faith he divided from the Faith ? Which Argument has no more force , than if he should argue , The Sun cannot be the object or Foundation of his Sight , because it is without him , and at a great distance from him , but his Sight is within him . And he hath of late been heard , several times to preach in the Quakers Meetings , that Christ without us cannot be the object of our Faith ; doth not G. F. here propose an object of our Faith without us ? and such an object , as is very difficult , if not impossible , to apprehend , to wit , the Flesh of Christ , which was Crucified when Adam sinned , and that Blood of his that was then shed or offered together with the Flesh , — And in this Flesh is the Belief ( saith he ) that takes away the Sin. But possibly G. W. or some other will say , the Flesh of Christ that was Crucified in Adam , when he sinned , is conveyed or transmitted from him into us . If any of them will adventure to say so , it will occasion such Intricacies and Niceties , that the Quakers pretended plainness doth not suit with ; for G. W. in his Book , call'd , The Divine Light of Christ in Man , p. 13. giveth this description of the People call'd Quakers , That they are not only esteemed an illiterate People , but are a plain , simple , innocent People , who most affect plain Scripture-Language , without any School-glosses or nice distinctions , to deck , adorn , or illustrate their Christian Profession of Christ , or his Divine Light in Men. And many thousands may not understand the terms , Vehiculum Dei , Intermediate Being , nor is Jesus Christ , preached among us under those terms , but in Scripture terms . [ The terms Vehiculum Dei had been used by R. Barclay , in his Apology , p. 83. and Intermediate Being by me , in some of my former Writings concerning the Seed of God , or principle of God's Grace in Men ; but which we carried not to that height , nor had that sense of it , to be the Flesh and Blood of Christ that is the Offering for Sin , and makes the Atonement by way of Expiation to take away the guilt of Sin. ] But is not G. W.'s Fallacy very plain in this Case ? Did not G. F. Preach Christ as he Writ and Printed concerning him ; and what though G. F. and none of the Quakers ever used the word VEHICULUM DEI , or INTERMEDIATE BEING before R. B. and G. K. used them , which they chiefly used to help the Quakers out of the Mire , and render ( if possible ) the Quakers Notions about the Seed within , intelligible , but they carrying it far beyond , whatever R. B. or I ever thought of , particularly G. F. and G. W. as I have found by my late more exact search into their Books , than ever formerly I made ; I find it not only difficult but impossible to reconcile them , either with Scripture or right and true Reason , and therefore I disown them , and whatever I have formerly Writ , that seemed in the least to justifie such Notions as I have found in the Quakers Writings , particularly in the Writings of G. F. and G. W. let them be as void and null , as if they had never been Writ . [ See my late Book of Retractations . ] Altho' , as I have already said , I carried them not so far , so much as in my thoughts , and I think no more did R. B. as they have done . Now since G. W. professeth that the Quakers are such a plain simple People , who most affect plain Scripture Language , how is it that both G. W. himself , and G. F. the chief Leaders and Teachers among them have gone so far from Scripture Language about Christ within , that they have run into most wild and extravagant Notions , that they sucked in from Familists and Ranters about Christ within ? Where do they find such Scripture Language , That Christ , according to the Flesh , was crucified when Adam sinned , and his Blood then shed , and that that Flesh , then crucified , was the Offering for Sin , and the Blood of that Flesh cleanseth away Sin , and that the Belief or Faith is in that Offering , the Flesh that was then Crucified : And where doth G. W. find his wild Notion of a Blood of Christ within Men , that cleanseth from Sin , by way of Sacrifice and Atonement ; or of any other Blood of Christ , than the Blood of his Humanity ; for tho' that place of Scripture , Acts 20. 28. calls the Blood of Christ , wherewith he purchased his Church , the Blood of God , yet it doth not say , it was a Blood within Men , or the Blood of the Godhead , and not of Christ's Humanity ; it is call'd the Blood of God , because Christ , whose Blood it was , was not a meer Man , but both God and Man , the Man Christ Jesus was God , tho' his Godhead was not his Manhood . But as to this Conveyance of Christ's Flesh , conveyed or transmitted from Adam into his Posterity , since his Fall , what Scripture Language is this ? If any of them will dare so to affirm , give us Chapter and Verse for any such Doctrine or Terms ? But yet further to discover the grossness of this wild Notion : Is this Flesh of Christ conveyed or transmitted into his Posterity , Crucified or Alive ? If they say Crucified , it is scarcely intelligible , how dead or crucified Flesh , however so Spiritual , can be conveyed or transmitted from Adam into us ; or how any crucified Seed or Principle can be so conveyed ; and seeing that as we are all descended of Noah , and he was descended of Seth , and Seth was descended of Adam , by humane Generation , long after Adam's Fall , and the Seed of the Woman was promised to him , it is most probable , That if there was any crucified Flesh , or Body of Christ in Adam when he Fell , that crucified Body , Seed or Principle , was quickened and raised in him , some time before he begot Seth , and it will-therefore follow rather , that such a Body , Seed or Principle , if conveyed or transmitted from Adam into his Posterity , is conveyed alive and not dead . Beside , how can it be conveyed by natural Generation ? Indeed , many of the Quakers deny any conveyance of Original Sin , by natural Generation , as the Pelagians denyed of old , because they cannot comprehend with their Reason , how such a conveyance can be ; to be sure it is altogether remote from all rational Comprehension , as well as from Scripture , that such a Noble Principle , as the Seed of God , should come by natural Generation , and so come to all Men , even the Children of Heathens , as well as the Children of Believers , as the Quakers commonly Teach ; yea , G. F. saith , G. M. p. 209. Every Man AT HIS COMING INTO THE WORLD hath a Light from Christ , him by whom the World was made , which is more than Conscience . But if every Man has that Light at his coming into the World , then Heathen Infants have it ; and seeing they have it from Christ , whether they have it Immediately conveyed , or Mediately , by natural Generation , through their Parents , as they have their natural Flesh ? If Immediately from Christ , it is more rational to suppose it is not crucified nor killed at its first reception : Beside , how can it be a slain or dead Thing in them , when it convinceth them of the sins of Lying , Thieft , and the like , and speaketh to them in their Hearts and Consciences , and teacheth them their whole duty to God and Man , if they will obey it ; yea , an entire Systeme of Orthodox Divinity ; If J. Wyeth can be believed , how can it do all this , and be a dead or crucified thing in them ? These are but some of the inexplicable and unintelligible Difficulties , beside many more that might be mentioned , which the wild Notions and Phrases of G. F. and G. W. especially , as far from Scripture Language , as Darkness is from Light , have led them into , and many others whom they have bewildred with them , notwithstanding G. W.'s fallacious pretences of his Brethren and Himself , being an innocent , plain , simple People , that most affect Scripture Language , when , indeed , no Society call'd Christians ( nay not the Church of Rome ) have so much deviated from Scripture Language , as well as Scripture Doctrine and Sense , as they have done . But let none from this infer , that I do not own the Doctrine and Faith of Christ within , and of his Divine Teachings , Inspirations and Illuminations , for that I do withal my Heart , as truly as ever I did , and , I hope , rather better ; only I deny the Quakers wild , extravagant and blasphemous Notions of Christ within , and particularly of G. F. and G. W. above-mention'd , who affirm that Christ is Crucified in all unregenerate Persons , and that the Flesh of this crucified Christ in them is the Offering for Sin , and the Belief is to be in this Flesh , and the Blood of this Flesh cleanseth from all Sin : Which Flesh was crucified in Adam , when he Fell ; but how from Adam it came into them , either crucified or alive , is not intelligible , and therefore no proper object of Faith ; but if they say it is alive in all Men , at its first reception , or at their first coming into the World , then all Men are Born Sanctified and spiritually Regenerated , Heathens as well as Christians ; for the great difference that the Quakers give betwixt Regenerated and Unregenerated Persons , lies in this , That the Seed Christ is alive in the Regenerated , but crucified and dead in the Unregenerated . But yet again , to shew how much G. W. acts the Sophister in his late pretences to own , the Merit of the Blood of Christ that was outwardly shed , which yet he hath so plainly denied in his Light and Life , and mightily , opposed it , That the shedding of that Blood upon the Cross was the meritorious cause of Man's Justification , in p. 8. Of Light and Life he blames W. B. For laying a twofold stress upon that Blood , 1. Merit to Salvation , 2. Work to Sanctification , and infers against W. B's twofold assertion , That in his so doing , he hath set it ( viz that Blood ) up above God , for God could not save he saith , and yet is not in being , gross absurdity saith G. W. Here the force of G. W.'s Sophistical Argument against the Merit of Christ's Blood , is very apparent , To say that Blood is the Meritorious cause of our Salvation is to set it up above God , which is a most absurd consequence , and his proof of his consequence he grounds upon an absolute forgery whereby he manifestly wrongs his Opponent W. B. in his alledging on him , that he said , God could not save , whereas , W. B. did not say , God could not save , But that Christ as he was God , without being Man , he could not save Man. See W. B.'s Capital Principles , p. 35 , 36. which is almost Orthodox Doctrine , rightly understood , viz. Seeing God hath appointed to save Man after that manner . G. VV.'s further opposition to the Blood of Christ as outwardly shed , being the Meritorious cause of Man's Justification , is evident from his words Light and Life , p. 61. But mark how one while W. B. makes that Blood , and the shedding of it , his Justifier and Redeemer , &c. VVhich he has confessed is not in being . Another while People must seek their Saviour above the Clouds and Firmament contrary to the righteousness of Faith , Rom. 10. 6. Another while they must look to Jerusalem for Justification , and to the Blood that was there shed , contrary to Deut. 30. 13 , 14. And Rom. 10. And if Men should look to Jerusalem for that Blood , it is not there to be found , for it is not in being , says W. B. The Seven Colchester Quakers , in their Printed Paper , called , Some Account , above mentioned , p. 16. pretended to answer this passage , by producing some words of G. VV. in his Light and Life , which they think will justifie him , but all in vain , unless to detect his and their dull Sophistry . VV. B. having said , The shedding of the Blood upon the Cross , that was let out by Virtue of the Spear , being thrust into his side , to be Meritorious , or the Meritorious cause of Man's Justification . To this G. W. Answereth , The shedding of that Blood , let out by the Spear , was an act of a wicked Man ; and the Spear , an Instrument of cruelty , which to lay the Meritorious cause or stress of Justication upon , is false Doctrine , for there is a great difference between Christ's offering up himself by the eternal Spirit , a Lamb without Spot to God , and the acts of wicked Men inflicted upon him , as it is said , by wicked Hands they put him to Death . And they conclude saying , But the making the very act of shedding his Blood by the Spear , to be the Meritorious cause of Man's Justification , we therefore ask them , if they really believe the same . Here , Note , Both G. W.'s and the Seven Colchester Quakers fallacy , thereby to cover G. W.'s vile Heresie . He most unjustly chargeth it upon W. B. his Opponent , that he laid the Meritorious cause or stress of Justification , upon the Act of the wicked Man , that thrust the Spear into our Saviour's Side , but this is a piece of gross forgery in G. W. so to charge W. B. and mistate the Controversie , between W. B. and him ; nothing but deceit it self could invent such a forgery in G. W. as this , to charge it on W. B. as if he had either said or thought that the Meritorious cause of Man's Justification , was laid by him , upon the Act of the Soldier , that thrust the Spear into our Saviour's Side ; for neither did he say it , nor can it be gathered from his Words , by the least shadow of any just Consequence , his Words being thus , as G. W. cites them , The shedding of the Blood upon the Cross that was let out , by the Virtue of the Spear being thrust into his Side , was the Meritorious cause of Man's Justification . See Light and Life , p. 64. The shedding of the Blood , &c. is the true English of the Latin Words Effasio Sanguinis , which being A Noun Verbal , hath a Passive as well as Active signification , and that W. B. meant it , in the Passive signification [ and not in the Active as with respect to the Soldiers Act ] is evident , from the Words both of Jer. Ives , and also of W. B. quoted by G. W. Light and Life , p. 64. he quotes Jer. Ives , saying , My Brother Burnet meant Christ's Passion , and not the Act of wicked Men. And again , G. W. quotes W. B. saying , Yes Brother , it is proper to say , It was Christ's Act to shed his Blood. His meaning is obvious , to any impartial Reader , that it was Christ's Act , freely to give his Blood to be shed for the remission of our Sins , as he said himself , no Man taketh my Life from me , I lay down my Life , and I take it up again . Without all doubt , though Christ was not Active to Kill himself , by any Bodily Act of violence , that he did to himself , yet his giving up his Blood to be shed , and his Life to be taken away , was a most noble act of his Soul and Will ; who by a most noble act of Obedience and Resignation to the Will of God , for the Salvation of Men , gave up his Blood to be shed ; for that the shedding of Christ's Blood was necessary for remission of Men's Sins , and their Justification before God , is clear from his own words , This Cup is the New Testament in my Blood shed for the remission of the Sins of many ; and as the Scripture saith , Without shedding of Blood is no remission ; so that , had not Christ's Blood been shed , Men's Sins could not be forgiven ; and yet what but deceit it self can infer from this , That the merit or stress of remission of Sin or Justification , is laid upon the act of the wicked Soldier , that thrust his Spear into our Saviour's Side . Note again , Seeing G. W. hath imposed such a Forgery upon W. B. without any just ground , as if he had placed , the Merit of Men's Justification , upon the act of the wicked Man that thrust the Spear into our Saviour's Side : By the like forgery , he may charge the Church of England , with the same absurdity , ( though most unjustly ) for in the Prayer immediately before Baptism , [ in the Office of Baptism for those of Riper Years ] she thus Prays , Almighty everliving God , whose most dearly beloved Son , Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of our Sins , DID SHED OUT of his most precious Side , both Water and Blood , and gave Commandment , &c. Here we see it 's said , that Christ SHED OUT of his most precious Side , both Water and Blood. Can therefore G. W. from thence infer , that the Church of England believeth , that she layeth the Merit of remission of Sin , and Justification upon the act of the Soldier , or that Christ by any act of Violence killed himself , or commanded others to do it ; and if no just consequence , as this , can be gathered out of the Church of England's Words , nor can they from the Words of W. B. that are of the same importance . But it 's no wonder that G. W. will have the shedding of that Blood which came out of Christ's Side , when it was pierced , to be only the Soldiers act , when T. Elwood in his Truth Defended , p. 99. denyeth the Blood that came out of Christ's Side , and its shedding after he was Dead , to have been to compleat the Offering , for this he saith , and again repeats the same Words and justifies them in his pretended Answer to my first Narrative , p , 220 , 221. This offering up himself , ( and giving himself a ransom for all ) included all his sufferings both inward and outward , and made it a compleat and perfect Sacrifice , in which his Blood was comprehended and concerned as well as his Flesh , before his Side was pierced by the Spear , for he had pronounced that great Word , Consummatum est , it is finished , had bowed his Head , and given up the Ghost before his Side was pierced with the Spear . This is not only contrary to the Doctrine of the Church of England , as above quoted in the Office of Baptism , but of all Orthodox Christians throughout the World , who teach according to Scripture , That the Water and Blood that came out of our Lord's Side , after his Death , was a special part of the Offering as well as his Death ; and the wounds in his Hands and Feet and the Blood that came out of them , before his Death ; which gross Error of T. Elwood , is the Error of the Second Days meeting at London , who approved his Book , and of G. W. who professeth the same Faith with them , is deservedly censured and refuted , in Satan disrob'd , p. 47. His Body pierced and his Blood shed after his Death , were truly and properly a part of the Sacrifice , as much as what he suffered before he expired . As the legal Sacrifice was not compleated by the Death of the Beast , but by the Burning of it , and offering the Blood afterwards , that was shed ; and those who reject that Blood do mutilate his Sacrifice , and render it ineffectual to themselves . Note , again , How neither G. W. nor the Colchester Quakers , in their Some Account , &c. give any answer , to what was objected against him , out of his Light and Life , p. 61. Though quoted by them , p. 15. Where he positively asserts , That to seek our Saviour above the Clouds and Firmanent [ i. e. to pray to him as he is in Heaven , without us , above the Clouds and Firmament ] is contrary to the Righteousness of Faith , Rom. 10. 6. And to look to the Blood that was shed at Jerusalem , for Justification , is contrary to Deut. 30. 13 , 14. and Rom. 10. which seeking or looking to Christ , and his Blood , as is above-quoted and proved , was not by any outward or bodily act , but by Faith , and yet even such seeking or looking is denyed , and opposed by G. W. and his Colchester Quaker Brethren . But whereas G. W. doth argue so much and so frequently against that Blood that was outwardly shed by the Spear , its being the meritorious Cause of Justification , because that Blood is not to be found at Jerusalem , for it 's not in being says W. B. as G. W. quotes him . Suppose W. B. had positively said [ as if they had been his words originally ] That Blood is not in being ; yet he was far from inferring thence , that we are not justified by that Blood ; this was G. W.'s consequence , and not W. B.'s for W. B. did strongly assert , that Men are justified by the Blood that was then shed , tho' it was not now in being , but ( said he ) the Efficacy of it is still in being ; but G. W. did draw a quite contradictory Conclusion , to that of W. B. as thus , That Blood that was shed by the Spear , is not in being , saith W. B. therefore G. W. concludes , Men are not justified by it ; which Argument of G. W.'s has equal force against Christ's Death , and Bodily pains , as well as his Souls Dolours and Griefs , they are not now in being , therefore Men are not justified by them . And his Argument has the like force against Men's being justified , or having their Sins pardoned , by the Merit of Christ's Blood , before Christ came in the Flesh ; for example , David had not the remission of his Sins by the Merit of Christ's Blood , because G. W.'s Logick , in David's time , the Blood was not in being : But as I shewed in the Meeting the Words [ that Blood is not in being ] were not originally W B's , but some Quakers Words , or some other that held the like false notions with them , which W. B. calls a Cavillation . Capital Principles p. 40. Of late , saith he , I have frequently met with a Query by way of Cavillation , Which is , whether that Blood spilt upon the Cross run not on the ground , &c. If so , how then can Man be justified by that which is not in being ? Thus we see , W. B. censures the consequence of that Argument to be invalid , but G. W. again , and again , I know not how frequently , makes use of it , and thinks the Conclusion to be good ; and I said , in the Meeting , had G. W. been present , I would have asked him , what was his Answer to that Question , Is the Blood that was shed on the Cross now in being ? [ If he happen to reply to this 4th Narative , I desire him to give a positive answer to it , seeing he makes it the Foundation of his Conclusion , that Men are not justified by the Merit of that Blood , because that Blood is not in being ] but seeing I had not G. W. there , I asked Dan. Philip [ who was present , and sat near where I stood , and is one of the Quakers in the Unity ] whither that Blood was in being , He replied he knew not whither I meant the Blood , that was without Christ's Body , or within it ; I told him , the Blood that went out of his Body , whether that Blood was in being ? but he gave no reply . I asked him again , whether he believed that the Blood that was outwardly shed , was Meritorious to Justification , and that true Believers were justified by it , he said , he knew not what I meant by the Word Merit , or Meritorious ; I told him , it was a shame for him , to pretend to be so Ignorant of the signification of the Word , that an ordinary School Boy did know , seeing he was a Scholar , and did not long ago , commence Dr. of Physick at Leiden , and had there a Latin Oration . However , I gave him the signification of it , that Merit signified that it was of that Worth and Value by way of Atonement and Expiation to make satisfaction to God , for the guilt of our Sins . He also pretended he knew not what I meant by the Word Atonement , I told him , it signified reconciling and bringing Men into savour with God. I asked , again , were Believers justified by the Merit of the Blood , that was outwardly shed , he answered it was a part of the Offering , but I asked were Believers justified by it , He said , that Blood will justifie none , that are not Sanctified ; I replied , that was not the question , nor is it any part of the Controversie ; I further asked him , what did he mean by the Offering whether Christ only as without us , or as within us , or both without and within , and both by Christ's Blood without us , as outwardly shed , and by the Blood of his God-Head as inwardly shed in Men , as G. W. will have it now at last ; but to this he gave no positive answer ; and though in all his answers he gave , on this or other heads , he greatly foiled himself : He is ( as I am informed ) so confident , that he tells in private , how he foiled me . But seeing neither he , nor any of the Quakers there present , offered any answer to that question ; Is that Blood of Christ that was outwardly shed in being ? I told them , I believed the substance of it was still in being , for not the least atome of any Bodily substance was ever annihilated ; but to enquire , where that Blood now was , or whether Christ did take it back again into his Body , [ which no doubt he was able to do , having all power , was a curious and unnecessary question , to be resolved , ] And here I brought a saying of B. Burnet ( whose Name I mentioned with due respect ) to the same effect in his Exposition on the xxxix Articles of the Church of England , and also , sometime afterwards at the same Meeting , I quoted him , in the same Book , to show my Agreement with him [ as I do with all sound Christian Teachers ] that our Lord has the same Body , in substance , he had on Earth , and that his Body is not changed in substance , but in the different Contexture of parts . And on this Head also I queried Dan. Philips , Whither Christ's Body was the same in Substance , now in Heaven , that it was on Earth ; and whether it was , when on Earth , a terrestrial Body ; he said , He did not know what I meant by Substance . I told him , the same that others meant , who had any true skill in Natural Philosophy , and it was a shame to a Dr. of Physick , to profess his being ignorant to define a Substance ; however I told him , that a Substance ( understanding a created Substance ) was a Being or Thing that did only depend on God Almighty , the first Cause , and was the subject of certain Accidents that did depend on it , and could not be without it . He asked whether a Substance could be without Accidents ? I answer'd him , it could be without Accidents of this or that kind , and could be wonderfully changed in Accidents , and yet remain the same Substance . I asked him again , Was our Lord's Body earthly , when it was on earth ? He answered , it was like ours in all things , Sin excepted . I again asked , but was it earthly , when on earth ? Here he demurred , and would not give a positive Answer ; a Minister that stood by , said , by his confessing it was like ours , he has confessed it was an earthly Body ; I said , to them that are sound in the Faith it is so , but not to the Quakers ; for they will not allow , that an earthly Body , and an heavenly Body , can be the same Body in Substance , or that a natural Body , and a spiritual Body , are the same in Substance ; for which I quoted G. W.'s Light and Life , p. 69. Who calls him a very blind and ignorant Man that will affirm , That Bodies Celestial and Terrestrial , differ not in Substance ; whereby he has proved himself to be both blind and ignorant , by his ignorant Assertion . And I told the Auditory , how the Quakers ignorance and false Notions of Philosophy , destroy'd their Faith , and hindred them to believe that necessary and fundamental Article of the Christian Faith , That Christ's Body that he had on Earth , is the same in Substance it was in Heaven ; and tho' when on Earth , it was earthly , and is heavenly now , yet the change was not in Substance but in Accidents ; for if it be not the same in Substance , it is in no respect the same ; for , take away the Substance and no Accidents can remain of any thing . And by the like false Philosophy , both G. W. and W. P. have argued against the Resurrection-Bodies of the Saints , that they shall not be the same in Substance with the Natural Bodies they had on Earth . And I further shewed , that Muggleton said , Christ's Body was like ours , and yet would not own it was the same Substance with ours ; for , he held that Christ's Body that hung on the Cross , and was laid in the Sepulcher , was the Godhead ; yea , was God the Father , Son , and Holy Ghost . Nor is G. W. and his seven Colchester Brethren , less fallacious , in his and their Defence of Solomon Eccles's Blasphemous saying , That the Blood of Christ that was forced out of him , by the Soldier after he was dead , was no more than the Blood of another Saint . In their Some Account , they quote G. W.'s Antidote , for his defence , p. 223 , 224 , 225. 1. He saith , he shewed a dislike of S. E.'s Expressions before-cited , but how ? in that he did not allow them as an Article of their Faith. But nor did he censure them as contrary to their Faith , which he ought to have done , and would have done , had he been in the true Faith. And that his dislike did not proceed from any detestation of the Error , is very apparent , that he said in his defence of S. E. That S. E. did highly speak in esteem of the Blood of Christ , and New Covenant , as more excellent and living , and holy and precious , than is able to be utter'd , &c. which ( G. W. faith ) might have satisfied any spiritual or unbyass'd Mind ; therefore it seems it satisfy'd G. W. But the deceit of G. W. lyeth in this , That the Blood which S. E. did so highly esteem , was not that Blood , that was let out of his Side , after Christ was dead , as S. E. plainly confessed in his Letter to R. Porter , but another kind of Blood , that is , the Blood not of the Humanity , but of the Godhead ; the Blood of the New Covenant , which is Inward and Spiritual , saith G. W. 2. He saith , he shewed in part his estimation of the Blood and whole Sacrifice or Offering of Christ , both in respect to the blessed Testimony , Value and Efficacy thereof , more than that of any other Saint or Saints . But I find no such Testimony in all that Book , to any Value or Efficacy of it , by way of Merit , as it was shed for the remission of Sins : For it is a great part of his work throughout his whole Book , Light and Life , to contend against the Merit and Value or Efficacy of it , for Men's Justification and Salvation , as is largely above-proved out of many Quotations in that very Book , and can be further proved . Yea , he would not so much as allow it to be concerned in any part or respect , as the meritorious Cause of Men's Justification , Light and Life , p. 56. For We are not ( saith he ) to suppose two kinds of Saviours and Sanctifiers , that is both a Natural which is not in being , as is said of the Blood that was shed ) and the Spirit which still liveth . Thus he wholly excludes the outward Blood , which he calls Natural , and placeth all upon the Spirit , arguing most weakly and impertinently , That to say , we are saved by the Blood of Christ that was outwardly shed [ as the meritorious Cause of our Justification , and Sanctification , and Salvation ] and by the Spirit of Christ , [ as the internal Agent and Efficient , that applyeth to us the Merit and Efficacy of that Blood that was outwardly shed ] is to inser two kinds of Saviours and Sanctifiers ; he might by as good an Argument infer , That a Medicine , and he that applyeth the Medicine to the Patient , are two Doctors of Physick , as to argue that Justification or Sanctification by the Blood of Christ , and by the Spirit of Christ , is to suppose two Saviours . But how will G. W. answer his own Argument , who of late , but without any Retractation of his former Error , doth own , Redemption , both by the natural Blood outwardly , and by the Spirit inwardly , Antidote p. 232 , 233 , 234. And it still remains as a vile Error justly charged on G. W. which he hath never to this day fairly answer'd , nor any for him , that in Light and Life , p. 59. he blames W. B. for saying , That Blood that Christ shed in order to the effecting the Salvation of Man , must needs he visible and material Blood ; in opposition to which , he plainly denies , That the material Blood of the Sacrifices was a Type of the material Blood of Christ ; for that were to say ( saith he ) that material Blood was a Type of that which was material , this to give the Substance no Pre-eminence above the Type ; which clearly proveth , that G. W. held that the material Blood of Christ was not the Substance signified by the Blood of the Sacrifices that were offer'd under the Law , but a Type or Figure of some inward thing , to wit , their spiritual Blood within , which they call the Life and the Light. 3. But after all , tho' G. W. would seem , at last , to be full and plain , in his passing censure on S. E.'s words , he remains still Fallacious and Sophistical , as much as formerly ; I disown ( saith he ) his said Comparison , of the Blood of Christ with that of another Saint , and believe he was not in the Counsel or Wisdom of God therein . Here he nothing blames the matter of his Words , but saith , he was not in the Counsel or Wisdom of God therein ; that is to say , He was not wise nor well advised , to disclose that great Secret or Mystery among the Quakers , so as to let the World know it , that the Quakers held as a Principle among them , That that Blood was no more [ by way of Merit ] than that of an ordinary Saint ; for in effect G. W. himself , as to all the real worth of it , above that of other Saints , by way of real Merit for Men's Justification , or real necessity to Salvation , hath plainly excluded it , not only by his many impertinent and nonsensical Arguings and Quibblings against it , as above-quoted , but by his plainly asserting in his Antidote , p. 28. That the Quakers are offended with G. K. for saying , the Light within is not sufficient to Salvation , or not sufficient without something else ; the which Proposition , seeing he blames as false , he must hold the contradictory to be true , That the Light within is sufficient to Salvation without any thing else ; yea , G. W. hath granted in his Antidote , p. 28. That Christ , as outwardly considered , is that something else , which G. K. meant . This is an evident proof , beside many others above-given , That it is G. W.'s and his Brethren's Principle , That the Blood of Christ that was outwardly shed on the Cross , is not a meritorious Cause of our Salvation ; nay , not so much as in part ; and that Faith in that Blood is not necessary for our Justification , expresly contrary to Scripture , Rom. 3. 25. Hence it is , that neither in their Books , nor Preachings , is any thing generally of this Doctrine Preached , That Christ , God-Man , as without us , as he Died for us , &c. is the object and foundation of our Faith , for remission of Sin , and for our Justification , and eternal Salvation ; but there is much to be both read in their Books , and heard in their daily Preachings , against the necessity of any such Faith. The farthest that they go at this day , is to Preach a little of him Historically , and as an Example , but to Preach him as without us , in the true nature of Man , to be the great Object of our Faith , Love and Adoration , they think is hurtful , as above-proved ; yea , W. Smith in his Primmer gives it as a mark of distinction , whereby to know , true Ministers from false , They that are false , Preach Christ without , and bid People believe in him , as he is in Heaven above , Jos . Wyeth's excuse of this , in his Switch , p. 220. is extreamly fallacious ; he thinks he may supply the defect in W. Smith's Words by an Ellipsis , telling us , The Church hath given abundant encouragement to supply Elliptick defects by her example and practise in the holy Scriptures , and what is so familiarly done with holy Writ , surely me may do with our Friends Books . But to detect this fallacy , what Elliptical defects the Church has supplied in some places of the holy Scripture , she had ground so to do from other places of Scripture more full , that taught her to make that supply ; but the case is far otherwise here , it being so far from being the Quakers way generally to preach Faith in Christ without Men , for Salvation that they oppose it , and call them Reprobates , who profess any such Faith ; and this their great Apostle G. F. has taught them by his Example so to do , in his G. M. p. 248. he saith to C. Wade , The Devil was in thee , and thou saith thou art saved by Christ without thee , and so hath recorded thy self to be a Reprobate , and ignorant of the Mystery of Christ within thee , for without that , thou dost not know Salvation . And yet this same C. Wade , hath fully owned the Mystery of Christ within , as above-quoted . Jos . Wyeth's excuse for G. F.'s saying to C. VVade , The Devil was in him . He saith , Was for his stuffing his Book with Lyes , but of this he gives not one Proof , though I have given several evident Proofs , That G. F. did grosly bely him : To the other part of G. F.'s charge , Thou art saved by Christ without thee . Jos . VVyeth Answereth , It doth plainly contradict the Doctrine of the Apostle . Thus we see , what value he and all his Brethren have , ( in whose Name he writes ) for Christ without us , that he saith ; it plainly contradicts the Doctrine of the Apostle , but by his so saying , he palpably bewrays his and his Brethrens Infidelity and Heathenism , and hath prepared a Rod for his own Back instead of a Switch for the Author of the Snake . To suppose that C. VVade meant that he was saved by Christ without him , without the inward Operation of Christ , by the holy Spirit , to Sanctifie him , is great injustice done to him , for he hath sufficiently cleared himself of that charge , as I have above-quoted him . But that Faith in Christ without us , as he Died for our Sins , &c. is no part of the Quakers Faith , or Systeme of Doctrine , is evident from Jos . VV●●h's plain confession , as above-noted , it is none of the Systeme of Principles truly Orthodox , or Substance of the Doctrine , which the Light within has taught them , for he wholly passeth it by , p. 38. and yet tells us , he has given us the Substance , of what the Light within has taught them : Besides , who will consider W. Smith's Primer , out of which the above given Quotation is taken , will find that his Words wanted no Ellipsis to explain his sense , for he gives it very fully , to be his sense , that the Light within , is the only Foundation , and that there is not another , see this more largely quoted in my Third Narrative , p. 11. Proofs out of the Quakers Books , on the following Heads , viz. Christ's Coming to Judgment : The Resurrection of the Body : The Light Within : Baptism and the Lord's Supper . Eighthly , Concerning Christ's last Coming to Judgment . G. F. in his G. M. p. 9. quotes J. Bunyan saying , That the Place where Christ shall come to Judgment , is at the Mount of Olives , at the East-side of Jerusalem ; to this he Answers , Thou hast put him far enough off from thee , and hast not yet judged thy self ( and Christ is come to Judgment ) and so art one of the false Prophets , who bids People look for him beyond the Sea , lo here , lo there ; but who are come to Christ , the Light , the Life , they need not go forth ; who abide here , are sealed by the Spirit , puts not off the good and evil Day . Note , Waving that Question , over what place on Earth Christ shall appear at his last Coming , we see here , That G. F. opposeth not only to the place of his Coming , but to any outward and personal Coming yet to be , and chargeth J. B. to be one of the false Prophets for asserting it ; and saith , Christ is come to Judgment , as if there were no other , for that 's the true state of the Controversie , betwixt J. B. and him ; J. B. did not deny that Christ was inwardly Come , to reprove and judge for Sin , but he asserted his Coming personally to Judgment without us also . G. W. in his Light and Life , p. 40. 41. Disputing with W. B. about Christ's outward Coming in his Glorified Body , to Judge the Quick and the Dead , answereth to the several Scriptures that W. B. brought for Christ's outward Coming at the end of the World , and carries them all to his inward Coming already fulfilled , such as , 1 Thess . 4. 15 , 17. and Acts 1. 9 , 10 , 11. Acts 2 , 32 , 33 , 34. Matth. 24. 30. and Verse 26. 14. and opposeth W. B. in his understanding them of his outward Coming in Glory at the end of the World. — And as to that , 1 Thess . 4. 17. ( saith G. W. ) which W. B. brings to prove that Christ shall come in the latter end of the World , from Heaven , above the Clouds . Now in Ver. 15. it 's said , That we which are alive , and remain unto the Coming of the Lord. Now I ask ( saith he ) if they did live and remain to a personal Coming of Christ in the Clouds , yea , or nay ? Or can it be reasonably thought to be a Coming that is not yet , that they lived and remained unto ? Note , How G. W. here most weakly ( but very plainly to discover his Infidelity ) argues against Christ's Coming at the latter end of the World ; and whereas in my First Narrative I did show , That when Paul said , We which are alive , and remain to the Coming of the Lord , he spoke by an Enallage Personae , We for They , we which remain , i.e. such of our Brethren , who shall be found alive at Christ's last Coming , &c. To this T. E. Answers , in his pretended Answer to my First Narrative , p. 162. Why might not the Apostle speak in the first Person [ We ] as supposing that great and extraordinary Appearance and Coming of Christ ( the certain time of which no Man knew , Matth. 24. 36. ) was so near at hand , that it might probably fall out in his Life-time ; and for this sense he quotes , Heb. 1. 2 , 9 , 26. 1 Pet. 1. 20. 1 Joh. 2. 18. 1 Cor. 10. 11. 1 Pet. 4. 7. as because the times after Christ came in the Flesh , are called the last times , that therefore the Apostles thought , the end of the World was not far off , i. e. in his sense , That Paul and the other Apostles , thought that Christ would come to Judge the Quick and the Dead before they dyed . This gross and absurd sense , as it is contrary to G. W.'s words , so it renders Paul to have spoke an untruth , even by Divine Inspiration ; for said Paul , This we say unto you by the word of the Lord. J. Wyeth in his Switch , p. 297 , 298. and his Brethren ; their common excuse , here and elsewhere , that these were but Queries , signifie nothing to defend them ; the very import of these Queries , implying a positive denyal . See this Fallacy of T. E. more fully detected in Satan Disrob'd , being a Reply to his pretended Answer to my First Narrative . Again , G. W. in Light and Life , p. 41. saith , — But Three Comings of Christ ; not only that in the Flesh , at Jerusalem , and that in the Spirit , but also another Coming in the Flesh , yet to be expected , we do not read of , but of a Second Coming , without Sin unto Salvation , which in the Apostles days was looked for : And these words of Paul , The dead in Christ shall rise first , he expounds of an inward Death . To this G. W. Answers very fallaciously , in his Truth and Innoc. p. 61. But is this to deny or oppose Christ's coming to Judge the Quick and the Dead ? 'T was never so intended . And questioning some Men's carnal Expectations of a fleshly coming of Christ , to be seen with their carnal Eyes ; was this to deny his coming in the Glory of his Father , with his Angels , to reward every Man according to his works , [ quoting , Matth , 16. 27. Luke 9. 6. ] no sure , for that 's confessed and undeniable . Note , His and his Brethren's common evasion to hide their Infidelity , is to quibble about the Word FLESH ; as if their meaning were only to deny , That Christ is to Come , in a fleshly Body , subject to the like Passions it had in his state of Humiliation , when upon Earth , as Hunger , Thirst , Pain , Death , &c. But this is no part of the Controversie , betwixt the Quakers and their Opponents . But , why may not Glorified Flesh be taken to signifie Spiritual Flesh , as distinct from Mortal Flesh , as well as Glorified Body signifies Spiritual Body , without any change of Substance ? But it is evident that G. W. not only denyed , that Christ would Come to Judge the World , in a Body of natural and passible Flesh , but that he would not Come , in the same Substance of that Body he had on Earth , which was a mortal and passible Body , of the same Nature with ours ; for he makes it most absurd , That an earthly Body and an heavenly Body can be the same Substance , as above-quoted . Now , That he denyeth that Christ was in Heaven in a bodily Existence , or would come to Judgment , as the Son of Mary , in a bodily Existence , [ to wit , having any thing of that Body which he had on Earth , ] is evident from his Nature of Christianity , p. 29. D●st thou look for Christ , as the Son of Mary , to appear outwardly in a bodily Existence to save thee , according to thy words , p. 30. If thou dost , thou may'st look until thy Eyes drop out , before thou wilt see such an Appearance of him . Note , To excuse his great Infidelity , he useth a gross Fallacy in his Truth and Innoc. p. 61. and giving a lame Quotation of his own words , This is true in Fact ( saith he ) for those very Eyes decay and perish . But this was no part of the Controversie betwixt G. W. and his Opponent , who did not presume to say or think , That Christ's coming to Judge the World in that bodily Existence would be before his Death ; but the thing earnestly asserted , was , That Christ as he was now really in Heaven in a bodily Existence , at God's Right Hand , so he would come in that very bodily Existence to Judge the World ; for which G. W. doth evidently oppose him as above-quoted . The Phrase , Thy Eyes will drop out before thou wilt see such an Appearance , is equivalent to this , Thou wilt never see such an Appearance , nor any other Man sor thee , as that common Phrase , at the Greek Calends . And whereas he adds : And Christ's last Coming in Power and great Glory in his Glorious Body , accompanied with his mighty Angels , at the Resurrection , must be seen with stronger , clearer , and more celestial Eyes , than perishing Eyes . Here he still hides his vile Error . What are these more celestial Eyes , seeing he will not have Christ's Coming to be without Men in a bodily Existence ? For in his Light and Life , he quotes Matth. 16. 27 , 28. and Luke 9. 26 , 27. in plain opposition to Christ's outward Coming , saying , — When was that Coming to be ? Is it now to be looked for outwardly ; and seeing he is not to Come outwardly but inwardly , these celestial Eyes , in his sense , must be inward Eyes . But then , how shall the Wicked see him ? for the Scripture saith , Every Eye shall see him , even they who have pierced him ; must they have celestial Eyes wherewith to see him ? And tho' the Wicked shall not see him in the same manner that the Godly shall see him , yet certainly , according to Scripture , and the Faith of all true Christians , all that ever lived , as well as they that shall be found alive in the Body at his Coming , both good and bad , shall see him , as an object without them ; yea , Christ told the Chief Priest and the Jews , Mat. 26. 64. Hereafter shall ye see the Son of Man sitting on the right hand of power , and coming in the clouds of heaven . At which saying , the High Priest rent his Cloaths , and said , he had spoke Blasphemy . It seems if G. W. had been present , he would have given the same judgment . Doth G. W. think that the High Priest and those Jews shall see Christ with celestial Eyes , seeing , according to his Philosophy , no other Eyes but celestial Eyes can see him at his Coming ? But again , Note , G. W.'s palpable contradiction both to himself and to T. E. in his Truth and Innoc. above-quoted , p. 61. he seems to own Christ's Coming , as a thing yet to be at the end of the World , tho' in Light and Life , p. 41. from that very place , which he now quotes for it , Matth. 16. 27 , 28. he did argue against it ; and thus in express words doth T. Elwood in his pretended Answer to my First Narrative argue , p. 160. That Coming ( saith he ) there spoken of by Christ , Matth. 16. 27. could not be meant of his Coming at the end of the World , because it was to begin in that very Age. And yet G. W. in his Truth and Innoc. contrary to his former gloss , and T. Elwood also , would seem now to understand it of Christ's coming , as a thing yet to be at the end of the World , and if he do not so understand it , he most grosly deceives his Reader , and if he do so understand it , he palpably contradicts himself , as well as his Brother T. E. and yet he is the insallible G. W. still , without any change . And for all G. W. his seeming now at last , to be drawn , to a plain confession of his Faith , concerning Christ without us , in his , Appendix to the Switch , p. 544. yet he is still fallacious , and lurks like a Snake in the Grass . He professeth to own his belief , concerning Christ without us , in Eight several steps , from his Conception and Birth without us , to his Resurrection , and Ascension without us , Being seen ( saith he ) to ascend without us , and a Cloud received him out of their sight , who beheld him ascend ; unto whom it was said by the Two Angels present , This same Jesus which is taken up from you into Heaven , shall so come in like manner , as ye have seen him go into Heaven , Acts 1. 3 , 9 , 10 , 11. And doubtless when he so comes , and all his mighty Angels with him , it will be in great Glory and open Triumph , and he will in that Day be greatly glorified in his Saints , and admired in all them that believe , 2 Thess . 1. 7 , 8 , 9 , 10. Note , How he gooth no further in his confession to Christ without us , but to his Ascension , and the Cloud receiving him out of their sight . But in the other two following steps of the Christians Faith , fully as necessary as the former Eight , and without which the other Eight are of little or no signification , to demonstrate a true Christian , viz. Christ's being sat down without us , at the Right Hand of God , in the true Nature of Man , consisting of a Created glorified Soul and Body , the same he had on Earth , the same in Substance , but wonderfully changed in manner and condition , and in that very glorified Nature of Man that he will come without us , to Judge the Quick and the Dead ; he is altogether silent , and his Words seem rather to imply a denial of them , than any affirmation , as with respect either to Christ's being now in Heaven , without us , in that Body which rose from the Grave , or his coming without us from Heaven in that Body to Judgment . Again , take notice of another fallacy of G. W. in his answer to the question proposed , whether they ( i.e. the Quakers ) believe in Christ as without them , as without all other Men , he varieth the terms of the question , from a believing in Christ without them , to a Historical Faith of their believing that Christ was Conceived without them , Born without them , Crucified without them ; all which he and his Brethren may believe Historically , as they believe the Historical Relation of Moses's Birth , Death , &c. and yet have no Faith in Christ without them , as the great Saviour of Men , for remission of Sin , Justification and Eternal Life and Salvation , as the great Object of saving Faith , for this he hath fiercely opposed in his Light and Life , arguing against W. B. who asserted Christ without us in Heaven , to be the Object of our Faith , for Justification . ( Saith G. W. ) Is the Object and Foundation of Faith divided from the Faith ? But what the Cloud is that received Christ out of the sight of Men , and with what Body Christ did ascend , and whether as a Person without us , Christ is to be Prayed unto , and whether he is to return as a Person without us to Judge the World ; hear what W. Bailie , a great Author among the Quakers , saith . In his Printed Collection , p. 300. — But methinks I hear some say ( in their Reasonings and Imaginations ) What Body hath he , and where is it , seeing it is said , he is at the Right Hand of God ? This I shall Answer ( saith he ) with his own words , which he spake here on Earth , viz. No Man ascended up to heaven , but he that came down from heaven , the Son of Man which is in heaven ; he that hath an Ear to hear let him hear and take notice , what Body that was which came down from Heaven , when Mary said unto the Angel , How can this be , seeing I know not a Man ? Thus we see he falsifies our Saviour's words , and will have no Body that ascended to Heaven , but what came from Heaven ; whereas our Saviour , in the place quoted , mentions not the Word BODY . Again , In his Treatise Deep calleth unto Deep , p. 30. he saith , — And so he taught them to Pray , Our Father , &c. not to look at his Person , and Pray to him as a Person without them , but bad them Pray to their Father which seeth in secret , &c. Again , in his p. 26. But , indeed , it is but a Cloud that hath received him out of the sight of the Gazers ; but saith the Lord to his Children , I have blotted out your Iniquities like a thick Cloud . — And , indeed , this [ viz. the Cloud of their Sins ] hath hid both his Body and Face from you , for the Kingdom of Heaven , and the Lord from Heaven , comes not with outward observation , but the Kingdom is within . And in his p. 29. I never read in all the Scriptures ( saith he ) as I can remember , of a Third Coming of Christ , personally in his own single Person , or of a personal Reign , besides , what shall be in his Saints . And G. W. in his Christ Ascended above the Clouds , not only denyeth any personal Coming of Christ , yet to be at the end of the World , but denyeth him to have a personal Existence in Heaven , without the Saints , and chargeth it to be Anthropomorphitism and Muggletonism . And , indeed , I know not one place of Scripture , of the many that are justly brought by sound Christians to prove Christ's Coming without us , in his Glorified Body to Judge the World , at the great Day of Judgment , but they have turned altogether to his inward Coming , which , they say , they witness already fulfilled in them , and they look for no other Coming . Ninthly , Concerning the Resurrection of the Body that Dyeth . G. W. instead of answering to the Quotations brought out of his and his Brethren's Books against the Resurrection of the Body that Dyeth , has not so much as produced them ; or any part of them , they are so broad-fac'd Proofs , to evidence his and his Brethren's Infidelity in that great Article of Faith , that he seems asham'd so much as to mention them . And whereas he saith , their Arguments not being answer'd by their Opposers , he shall need say the less to them ; and concludes , That he would have them so Charitable , that they would not condemn them as Blasphemers , for believing that their Resurection-Bodies shall be Spiritual and Glorious , far excelling these natural , carnal and earthly Bodies ; for else , how should the Saints Bodies be like unto Christ's Glorious Body . Note here again , He seeks to cloak his and his Brethren's Infidelity , by perverting the true state of the Question , which is not , That the Resurrection-Bodies of the Saints shall not be wonderfully changed , and far excelling these natural , carnal and earthly Bodies , and made Spiritual and Glorious , like to Christ's Glorious Body , for that is acknowledged ; But the true Question is , Whether the Saints Bodies , at the Resurrection , shall be so changed , that they shall not be the same in Substance , or Essence of Bodies , and consequently in no respect the same ; for if the Substance be not the same , to be sure , the Accidents are not ; and consequently , nothing of that Body that dyeth , either in Matter or Manner , in Substance or Modification , riseth again ; for our Lord's Body , tho' it was wonderfully changed in Manner and Qualities , at his Glorification , yet it remained the same in Substance or Essence of a Body . And yet more fully to detect their Fallacy , the following Quotations will prove , That they look for no Resurrection of the Body out of the Grave , at the end of the World ; but all the Resurrection they look for , is , The New Birth , or what they expect , as some of them say , immediately after Death , which , to be sure , is no part of the Body that is laid in the Grave . But whereas he saith , that W. P.'s and T. Elwood's Arguments about the Resurrection have not been answer'd by their Opposers , is false ; they have been sufficiently Answer'd again and again , as The Snake in the Grass , Satan Disrob'd , and in my First , Second , and Third Narratives . G. Whitehead in Christian Quaker , p. 353. brings T. Danson saying , The happiness of the Soul is not perfect without the Body , its dear and beloved Companion ; the Soul having a strong desire and inclination to a re-union to the Body , as the Schools not without ground determine , &c. To this G. W. Answers ; Both Calvin , T. Danson , the Schools , and divers Anabaptists , are mistaken in this very matter , and see not with the Eye of true Faith , either that the happiness of the Soul is not perfect without the Body , or that the Soul hath a strong desire to a re-union to the Body , while they intend the terrestrial elementary Bodies ; for this implies the Soul to be in a kind of Purgatory , or disquietness , till the supposed Resumption of the Body . To the same effect doth W. P. argue against T. Hicks , Reason against Railing , p. 137. He quotes T. Hicks arguing for the Resurrection of the Body ; the Joy's of Heaven imperfect else . To this W. Penn opposeth . I Answer , Is the Joy of the Ancients , now in Glory , imperfect ? Or are they in Heaven but by halves ? If it be so unequitable , that the Body which hath suffer'd should not partake of the Joys Celestial , is it not in measure unequal , that the Soul should be rewarded so long before the Body ? This Principle brings to the Mortality of the Soul ( held by many Baptists ) or I am mistaken . But why must the Felicity of the Soul , depend upon that of the Body ? Is it not to make the Soul a kind of Widow , , and so in a state of Mourning and Disconsolateness , which state is but a better sort of Purgatory . Note , We see from both their Reasonings , they would infer divers absurdities , that would follow upon that Doctrine , that the Souls of the deceased Saints now in Glory , do look for a re-union to their Bodies , which they put off at the Bodily Death . So that by their manner of Reasoning , as well as their express Words , they declare themselves in their own behalf , and in the Name of the Quakers , whose Faith they pretend to give an account of , to be positive Unbelievers as concerning any Resurrection of the Body that Dyeth , or any re-union of that Body , to the Soul to which it was formerly united before the Bodily Death . But still G. W. as his manner is , perverts the true state of the question by his saying , While they intend the terrestrial elementary Bodies : For if he mean that the Bodies after they are raised shall have the same terrestrial elementary Qualities , Passions and Accidents , that they had before Death , he wrongs his Opponents , for none of them have so affirmed : But if he mean the same Substance or Essence of Bodies , under more excellent Qualities and Endowments , as far excelling the former , as Spiritual excells Natural , or Animal and Carnal , Immortal and Incorruptible excells Mortal and Corruptible , and Heavenly excells Earthly , they are the same : For in all changes that Bodies are capable of , as well as Souls or Spirits , from worse to better ; the subject of these changes must remain the same , and that is what is justly called the Substance , as when the Soul or Mind of Man is converted and changed from Earthly affections to Heavenly , the Subject or Substance which is the Soul or Mind is the same , and by as good Reason , when a Body is changed from Earthly qualities to Heavenly , the Body is still the same Substance or Subject , tho' changed in Qualities and Conditions : For further proofs out of both G. W. and W. P. I refer to my Third Narrative , p. 26 , 27 , 28. Again , Rich. Hubbertborne , a great Author among the Quakers in his Coll. p. 121. proceedeth at the same rate against the deceased Saints , looking for the Resurrection of their Bodies . — And these are they ( saith he ) that plead for a Life in Sin , while they are here , and that say , that the Saints glorified in Heaven , do yet hope , For the Resurrection of their Bodies , and so not come to the end of their hope , tho' in Heaven , when as the Saints upon Earth , witnessed the end of their hope the Salvation of their Souls . Now these may well deny perfection on Earth , who deny it in Heaven , which the Saints , we and the Scriptures do witness it in , both and against all such , who are not fit to speak of the things of God. See further in my Third Narrative , p. 29. Note , Here again , G. W.'s gross Fallacy and Sophistry , Truth and Innoc. p. 59. as if Rich. Hubberthorne had only opposed the Doctrine of the glorified Saints in Heaven , not being perfect , which is a most deceitful Evasion , by mistating the Controversie , R. Hub. here is not disputing against the Papists who maintain a Purgatory , but against a Protestant Author , who did hold , That all the deceased Saints , are perfect with a sinless perfection , but it doth not therefore follow , that they do not in that sinless state , hope for the Resurrection of their Bodies , which yet is R. Hubb.'s inference , by which he doth plainly discover his , and his Brethrens infidelity in that great Article of the Christian Faith , viz. the Resurrection of the Body . Again , in Coll. p. 275. he gives us his sense of the Resurrection . The Seeds ( he saith ) are but two in the whole World [ viz. the Seed of the Woman , and the Seed of the Serpent ] having each Seed its own Body , and in every one , until the one be cast out , and every one of these two Seeds in every Man shall arise in its own order , the one shall rise unto everlasting Life , the other unto Condemnation , — Christ the Seed made his Grave , IN the Wicked , and IN the Rich in his Death , and out of that Grave shall rise with his Body unto everlasting Life , if thou canst receive it , thou may'st be satisfied . Are not these Words horrid Perversions of Scripture , and containing abominable Blasphemy ! Again , G. F. in his Distinction betwixt the Two Suppers , p. 20. saith , — And the Apostle said , that there shall be a Resurrection of the Dead , both of the Just and Unjust , and for Preaching the Resurrection of the Dead ( namely , Christ Jesus ) he was called in question , Acts 24. 15 , 21. And in p. 21. quoting 2 Tim. 2. 17 , 18. he saith , But Hymenaeus and Philetus concerning the Truth erred , who said that the Resurrection was past already ; such overthrew People from the Faith , that stands in Christ , who is the Resurrection and the Life , through which Faith , they attained to the Resurrection , and had their vile Bodies changed , and made like unto his Glorious Body . Note , How he perverts the Scripture both in words and sense ; the Scripture words , Who shall change our vile or low Bodies , respecting the time to come , at the Resurrection of the Dead ; but he saith , they attained the Resurrection , and had their vile Bodies changed , as a thing already fulfilled . Also he makes the Resurrection that Paul Preached in the Acts 17. 18 , 22. and 23. 6. to be Christ himself , perverting our Saviour's words , who called himself the Resurrection and the Life , to a literal sense , which ( as is obvious to all intelligent Persons ) contain a figurative sense , to wit , the metony my of the Cause getting the Name of the Effect , as is frequent in Scripture , and in all Authors ; as when God is call'd in Scripture the Saints Hope , and Confidence , and Salvation , i. e. the Author and Cause of their Hope , Confidence and Salvation . Tenthly , Concerning the Quakers Notion of the Light Within . THE true Doctrine and Sense of the Light Within , as a Divine and Supernatural Gift of God , given to all faithful Christians , of whom it is truly said ( as David said , concerning himself ) The Lord is their Light and their Salvation ; and also that Christ the Eternal and Essential Word , who was in the beginning with God , and was and is God , is that true Light , that doth enlighten every Man that cometh into the World , even Heathens and all Individuals of Mankind , with a common and universal Illumination , Discovery and Knowledge , of certain moral Principles , of Justice and Temperance ; and also of some general knowledge of God , as the great Creator and Ruler of the World , and of some general moral Duties towards him as such , [ whether by certain innate impressions preventing the exercise and actings of the rational Faculty , or by exciting and awakening the rational Faculty of the Soul , as it is enlightned and assisted by God Almighty , as the primary Cause , and by the works of Creation and of general Providence , as secondary Causes ; whether one or both of these ways is not so necessary at present to determine , ] is a Doctrine well warranted by Scripture , and consented unto by the generality of Professors of Christianity , and which I not only consent unto , but highly value as an excellent Principle , labouring daily , by the Grace of God , practically to improve whatever true Light within I have , both Common and Special , and , I hope , ever I shall so do , and so I pray that God may enable all and me to do the same : But the Quakers Notion of the Light within , held in general by them , and authentickly received from their Principal Teachers , particularly G. F. G. W. E. Bur. and others , is extremely contrary to the Holy Scriptures , and also to the best dictates of our rational Faculties , to which no divine Light , either within Men or without Men , can contradict . To show which hath been a principal part of my business in all the the three Meetings , above-mention'd , and is the same in all the three Parts of this Narrative , the which contrariety I intend to show in a short Scheme of their absurd , unscriptural , as well as irrational Notions of what they call the Light within ; which , upon due examination , will be found to be Darkness , and not Light , within . 1. It 's natural to Man to have a Supernatural Light , W. P.'s Prin. Christ . p. 15. 2. There is no natural Light in Men , Prin. Christ . p. 30. There are not two Lights in Men , p. 31. Thus he allows no distinction betwixt natural Reason , which is a good and true Light , and Gift of God to Men , and the Light of Faith , given to all true Christians , and the Light of prophetical Inspirations given to the holy Prophets and Apostles , but confounds them , by making them all to be one and the same thing , whereas they , are all very distinct , tho' all coming from one Fountain and Author , God , the Father of Lights . 3. Man at his coming into the World hath a Light from Christ , which is more than Conscience , G. F.'s G. M. p. 209. 4. And seeing the Light is but dim in Heathens and Christians , and Prophets and Apostles , by Prin. Christ . as above-quoted , no Man has , or ever had , any other Light , but what he had at his coming into the World. 5. The Light within , not only true Christians , but within all Men , Heathens , Turks , Jews , is sufficient to Salvation without any thing else , G. W.'s Antid . p. 28. Thus the Man Christ without us ( who is both God and Man ) and his Death and Sufferings , and Blood outwardly shed , and Mediation for us in Heaven , are all excluded from being so much as concurring Causes of our Salvation . 6. The Light within every Man ( litterally understood without any Metonymy ) is God , Christ , the Holy Ghost , the Unction or Anointing , is blinded in some by the God of this World ( G. F. News out of the North , p. 19. ) is Crucified , Imprisoned , Slain , in wicked Men , and its Blood is shed in them , and that is the Blood that they trod under feet ( see the places above-quoted ) and is the Blood of Atonement . 7. This Light is first a Seed , then a new born Child , and lastly , the Mighty God ; see W. P.'s and W. B.'s words above-quoted . 8. This Light within being God , &c. teacheth the Quakers immediately and infallibly , as it did the Prophets and Apostles , and they Speak and Write from the same Prophetical Illumination and Inspiration that the Prophets and Apostles had ; yea , from the same degree , at least some of them ; and G. F. was come to the same Fulness that was in Christ , and the Works of their Ministry is to bring People to the same Fulness , that was in Christ , that it may be in them , i. e. to make them all equal to Christ and God , as above-quoted . 9. The Light within , teacheth them , what they Preach and Write without the Scriptures , being the means , or a means to help or assist them in so Preaching and Writing : hence it is that E. B. upbraids all Protestant Ministers , Coll. p. 126. saying — Their Prophecy and Preaching would soon be ended , if they had not the Scripture , which is other Men's Words , and that which was spoken to others , to speak their imaginations from . 10. That this Light within every Man , is the Gospel , the Power of God , unto Salvation , to every one that believeth in it , and is the alone Object of Faith , [ as above-quoted ] and that Prophet whom God promised to raise up . 11. That the Light within every Man , is the Rule of Faith , and Life to all Men , as above-quoted , yea , a full Rule to lead to Salvation , where it is obeyed . The Glory of Christ's Light within , by G. W. and others p. 32. and p. 28. from the Light of Christ within , they [ i. e. all Men ] have so much of the Instructions or Precepts therein [ in Scripture ] contained as are necessary to Salvation . Note , This is to teach People to be saved , by a meer Covenant of Works , Do and live , which none ever yet fulfilled , but Christ , for all have sinned , Rom. 3. 12. This Light within them is whole Christ , God and Man , Flesh and Spirit , G. F. G. M. p. 246. 249. and G. E. is so much for the Flesh , Body , Blood and Bones of Christ within , that he denyeth that Christ has any Body that is absent from his People , and is now in the presence of his Father , G. M. p. 211. 13. It is the Flesh and Bone of Christ , a measure in one , and a measure in another . Note , This is to make the whole to be the part and the part or ( G. M. 246. ) measure to be the whole . 14. The Saints eat his Flesh , and they that eat this Flesh , hath it within them . G. M. p. 322. Thus arguing most grosly from a Metaphorical eating to a Literal . 15. The Light within is the Urim and Thummim , as G. W. says Truth and Inno. p. 16. which not only the Quakers have , but all Men , Heathens and Infidels as really as they . 16. Christ within is the Doctrine of Salvation , which IS ONLY necessary to be Preached , and he is a deceiver , that exhorts People for Salvation to any other thing than the Light of Christ , as he hath enlightned them within . Note , This evidently appears from those passages in E. B.'s The true Faith of the Gospel of Peace , p. 29. 30. quoted in that called , Some account from Colchester , signed by Seven Quakers above mentioned , [ the whole of which account is in the several heads of this Narrative fully replyed unto ] which these Seven Quakers are so far from Censuring , that they have justified them , p. 16. 17. But to hide their deceit in their reply they transpose the Words of E. B. in his Q. 12. which were the Light of Christ to Christ who is that true Light , whereas it is manifest , that by Christ that true Light , they meant the same which E. B. viz. ONLY the Light within . Again , in their p. 17 , 18. they justify G. W. 's saying , They that want infallibility , and have not the Spirit of Christ , they are out of the truth , and are fallible , and their Ministry is not of the Spirit . Note , Here they not only disown such Ministers who have not the Spirit , but who are fallible in any case ; for that 's the true state of the Controverse , as stated betwixt G. W. and T. D. Voice of Wisdom , p. 33. Want of infallibility is a valid Plea against the Ministry ; let the intelligent therefore judge whether G. W.'s fallibility sufficiently proved in this Narrative , as well as that of his Brethren by his Argument , has not manifestly discovered him and them to be no Ministers of Christ . ] Note , Their faulting so much , some small Errors of the Press no wise materal , as by the Original manuscript yet extant , and ready to be produced , if required , is to be seen , shows their quibling Humour , straining at a Gnat , and swallowing down a Camel ; as also their querying if this or that of the Quotations brought against them be against the Foundation of the Christian Religion , as was said in the Title-Page of the Sheet , to which they have made a pretended reply ; but are they so ignorant as not to know that every Error is against the Foundation , in some degrees though every Error is not Fundamental , so as to destroy the Foundation , 2. That Errors as well as other ill things receive their denomination from the greater and worse part ; as indeed , the far greatest part of all therein contained is destructive to the very Foundation of Christian Religion , as is on the several Heads plainly shown . And as to the Printed Testimony of John Gledhill , Nonconformist Minister , which they have prefixed to their Some Account , it avails them nothing , for he grants that he did witness to the truth of the Quotations , and no more was desired from him . The Printing of his Name without his knowledge and consent , reflects no blame on the Person who desired him to set his hand to it , even tho' he told him , that that Paper was not designed for the Press , for that Person did not put it to the Press , but it was Printed without his leave or consent ; and the Person who put it to the Press , was under no tye to hinder him from so doing , but judged it would be of Service to the Truth to make it publick , as he still so judgeth ; and it is no dishonour to J. Gledhill , nor his Brethren , but commendable to have their Names in Print , to attest to the great Truths of the Gospel , in opposition to the Quakers great Errors , that do so manifestly contradict them . And it would be yet more commendable in him and them , to bear a more full and zealous Testimony against them , to stop the gangrene of the Quakers vile Errors , that have so much prevailed in Colchester , as in many other places of the Nation . Note , By this and all the foregoing Quotations it is sufficiently evident , that the Light within , not as taught by the Scriptures , but as taught by the Quakers , hath led them into manifold Blasphemies , and vile Errors , as the Norfolk Ministers have most justly charged them , concerning God , Christ and the holy Scriptures . 11thly , and 12thly , Concerning Baptism and the Lord's-Supper . IN a Book , call'd , Some Principles of the Elect People of God , in Scorn call'd Quakers , p. 75. The Baptism we own , which is the Baptism of Christ , with the Holy Ghost and with Fire , but we deny all other ; for there is but one Lord , one Faith , one Baptism , one God and Father of all ; add they who would have one Baptism outward and another inward , would have two Baptisms , when the Scripture saith the Baptism is but one ; and whosoever hath the Baptism outward , are the same they were before , but the Baptism of Christ makes a new Creature . — And now I see the other to be formal Imitation , and the invention of Man ; and so a meer Delusion ; and all are Heathens , and no Christians , who cannot witness this Baptism , Matth , 15. 4. who can witness this DENIES ALL OTHER ; for the Scripture saith , the Baptism is but one . And in p. 76. — And are without , feeding upon the Husk and Shadow , which is carnal ; for the Bread which the World breaks , is Carnal and Natural , and only feeds the outward carnal Body , and goeth into the Belly , and so passeth out into the Dunghil ; and so likewise the Cup which they drink , and so the Communion and Fellewship of the World passeth away ; but this is no nourishment to the Soul , but still the Soul lies in Death , and here is no Commnnion , but natural , outward and carnal , of several Minds and Hearts , full of Filthiness and Uncleanness , which IS THE TABLE OF DEVILS , Eating and Drinking their own Damnation , not discerning the Lord's Body , which is Spiritual , which the natural Man discerns not . W. P. in his Reason against Railing , p. 108. — I affirm , by that one Scripture [ Heb. 9. 10. ] Circumcision is as much in force , as Water-Baptism , and the Paschal Lamb , as Bread and Wine , they were both Shadows , and both elementary and perishable . And we can testifie FROM THE SAME SPIRIT , by which Paul renounced Circumcision , that they are to be rejected , as not now required ; neither have they , since the false Church espoused and exalted them , ever been taken up afresh by God's Command , or in the leading of his Eternal Spirit ; and the Lord will appear to gather his People out of them , but never to establish or keep People in them . Note , Notwithstanding the severe Censure that the Quakers have passed on the outward Administration of Baptism and the Lord's-Supper , in the former Quotation , and W. Penn in this latter Quotation ; in the one they say , Baptism with Water , and the Lord's-Supper , with Bread and Wine , are to BE DENYED , WE DENY ( say they ) ALL OTHER ; and in the other W. P. saith , they are to be REJECTED , and this ( he saith ) they can testifie from the same Spirit by which Paul renounced Circumcision ; yet W. Penn , in his Key , Printed at London , 1699. saith , — Hence it is that the People call'd Quakers , cannot be said to deny them [ viz. the outward Administration of Baptism and the Supper ] that is ( saith he ) too hard a Word , — But they leave them off , as fulfilled in Christ , who is in them , their hope of Glory . Is there not here a palpable contradiction betwixt W. Penn and his Brethren ? He saith in his Key , p. 28. The People call'd Quakers cannot be said to deny them , that 's too hard ; and yet in the former Quotation , they have used that very same Word , — WE DENY ALL OTHER , say they ; and call it the Invention of Man , and so a meer Delusion . But it is fearful Delusion in them , to call these so solemn Institutions of our Blessed Saviour , expresly enjoyn'd to the end of the World , and his coming to Judgment , by such Names ; yea , and the like contradiction is found betwixt W. P. in his Reason against Railing , in the Year 1673. and the same W. P. in his Key , Printed 1699. In the former he saith , We can testifie from the same Spirit by which Paul rejected Circumcision , that they are to be rejected ; In the latter he saith , The People call'd Quakers cannot be said to deny them , that 's too hard a Word ; yet we see they have denyed them , both by Practise and verbal Confession ; yea , and rejected them , and with no less pretended Authority , than the same Spirit by which Paul rejected Circumcision . Where is now the Unity they boast of ? seeing in this , as well as in divers other things of great weight , they are so contradictory and unconstant to themselves , and yet without all change , if we will believe them . And notwithstanding the severe Censure that the Quakers in general , and G. W. in particular , have passed on Baptism and the Lord's-Supper , outwardly Administred , calling them , the Invention of Man , a meer Delusion , and Idolatry , and the Lord's-Supper , The Table of Devils , and the Cup of Devils : yet G. W. in his Antidote , p. 114. Printed 1697 , pretends a great deal of Moderation and Charity to some who practise them , but without any change in him — And tho' too many now are very Formal and Superstitious in those outward Observations and Shadows , laying so much stress for Salvation upon them , that they neglect the Substance , yet others being more conscientiously tender in the observation thereof , we are the more tender to these , so as not to censure or condemn them meerly for practising that which they believe is their Duty , either in breaking of Bread , or Water Baptism , yet desire they may see further . Note , What can this smooth Language of W. P. and G. W. concerning Baptism and the Supper now of late Years import or signifie to all impartial Persons , but that thereby they seek to deceive the weak and simple , seeing they will not acknowledge , that they are changed in any respect from what they were in the beginning , either in point of Perswasion , or Charity ? They mean the same now , as when they called them , universally and without exception , beggarly Elements , worldly Rudiments , Idolatry , Invention of Man , and meer Delusion ? But seeing they are not changed in their Faith and Perswasion , concerning Water Baptism and the Supper , they cannot with any good Conscience be changed in their being more charitable now then formerly , so that G. W.'s saying , they do not censure or condemn them , who are more conscentiously tender in the observation thereof , meerly for practising that which they believe is their duty , is a meer fallacy . Do they not condemn all visible Christian Societies but their own , and call them Apostates , the World , Idolaters , Worshippers of Baal , and the Preachers belonging to those Societies Priests of Baal , &c. Do they not censure them , who practise Idolatry , and Man's Invention , and meer Delusion ? as they have past Judgment on those outward practises , to be such . And if People's practising what they believe is their Duty , being misled by an erring Conscience , and Ignorance of Mind ( as the Quakers think all are so misled who practise the outward Baptism and Supper ) can excuse them from censure , according to G. W.'s way of Argument , they may extend as much Charity , not only to Judaising Christians , that would practise outward Circumcision , but to Insidels , Jews and Mahometans ; yea , and the most Superstitious and Idolatrous Papists , for no doubt many of them practise what they believe is their Duty , when they pray to the Virgin Mary , and other Saints , and adore the Bread in the Mass , being misled by an erring Conscience , to believe it is the real Body of Christ . But they falsely infer , that because unworthy Persons do partake of the outward Supper , that therefore it is the Table of Devils , and the Cup of Devils , Paul did not say , he that Eats and Drinks unworthily , Eats at the Table of Devils ; But he that eats this Bread , and drinks this Cup of the Lord unworthily , shall be guilty of the Body and Blood of the Lord , 1 Cor. 11. 27. Thus we see that according to Scripture , that Cup which the unworthy drink is the Cup of the Lord , and not the Cup of Devils , and that Bread which they eat is the Bread of the Lord , as Augustine said , the unworthy they eat Panem Domini , but not Panem Dominum the Bread of the Lord , but not the Bread which is the Lord ? Some of the Quakers said , George , seeing thou art for the outward Baptism and the Supper , why dost thou not practise them . To this I gave the following account , which many declared was satisfactory unto them , that not having an outward Call , I ought not to administer them to others upon the pretence of an inward extraordinary Call , which too many pretend to have . And for my Speaking at Turners-Hall , and elsewhere as I had occasion , I do not pretend to any extraordinary Call in so doing , but what I did , was what a private Christian , who has a Spiritual Gift and Ability given him of God ( especially to oppose Heresie ) may and ought to do , to teach his Neighbours Catechistically ( not to set up any Sect , or make any Schism ) as Origine taught in Christian Assemblies , when a Lay-man , before he received Ordination ; and so did others , as Eusebius showeth in his Church-History : And as to Baptism , I was satisfied with what I had received in Infancy , being Born of Christian Parents ; for I believe , That Baptism , being a Seal of God's Covenant of Grace , doth as really belong to Infant Chirdren of Believers under the New Testament , as Circumcision did to Infant Children of Believers under the Old Testament . Next as concerning the Lord's-Supper , after it pleased God to convince me that it is an Institution of Christ , and let me see my Error and Sin , in rejecting it , for which I have been humbled before God , and asked his Forgiveness , and which , I hope , God for Christ's sake , has given me ; I had some considerable time of hesitation , about the lawful and due Administrator , and after I had clearness in that , I delay'd for some time , for the sake of some others , lest my forwardness should be an hindrance and offence to them ; but , through Mercy , that being much removed , I became uneasie to delay it longer , so that I declar'd I did intend , God willing , with the first opportunity , to receive it . And whereas my Adversaries among the Quakers did object against me , that I am a Member of no visible Society , and on that pretence refuse to have any publick Dispute or Conference with me . To this I answer'd , first , Supposing it were so , why should that be made a Crime in me , which W. P. in his Preface to G. Fox's Journal , esteem'd so great a Virtue in G. Fox , viz. That he was of no particular Society ; but , secondly , I told them I was a Member of the Catholick Church of Christ , and I did own the Church of England to be a part of the Catholick Church , and other Protestant Churches to be other parts of the same . In the close of the Meeting I told the Auditory , I was ready , by God's Assistance , to prove against my Adversaries , the Chief Leaders and Teachers of the Quakers , particularly George Whitehead , Jos . Wyeth , and them of the Second-Days-Meeting at London , who have approv'd the Quakers Books , That they do not believe One Article of that call'd the Apostles Creed , in the true sense of Scripture , and of all true and Orthodox Christians throughout the World ; and I desir'd the Quakers present , to acquaint their Brethren with my said Proposal : I also told the Auditory , that the false pretences of the Quakers Teachers to extraordinary prophetical Inspirations gave them the just Character of false Prophets , and all such who had the like false pretences with them ; and that none could justly be so called , however otherwise unsound or mistaken , that had not those high pretences . That it was some of the most crying Sins committed in this Land , that so many false Prophets should abound in it , speaking Lyes in the Name of the Lord , and saying , Thus saith the Lord , pretending the fame Immediate Message and Authority that the true Prophets had , whenas they can give no proof of it , but many undeniable proofs can be given to the contrary , as particularly their vile Antichristian Errors publish'd in their Books , and that lewd Swearing and open Prophanation of the Name of God , are not greater Sins , nor so great nor dangerous , in many respects , as their speaking Lyes in the Name of the Lord , and entituling their vile Errors and Blasphemies to the Spirit of God , as they commonly do . POST-SCRIPT . FOR an Evidence of my owning the Church of England , to be a part of the true Catholick Church of Christ , I did with great inward Peace and Satisfaction , I bless God , receive the Lord's-Supper , by D. Bedford , in his Church in Buttolph-lane , with others of that Congregation , the first Lord's Day of the Month of February , 1699 , and since again in the same place , by the same Person , the first Lord's Day of this Instant Month of March , 1699. On which same day Robert Bridgeman , and Margaret Everard , and some other of my Friends ( formerly under the profession of Quakers , and in great repute among that People , whom God , in his great Mercy , hath of late times enlightned , to see their former Error , and to renounce it ) did receive the Lord's-Supper in Huntington , and have declar'd that they receiv'd it with great inward Peace and Satisfaction ; the account whereof I have from the said Robert Bridgeman , by his Letter to me , bearing Date the 5th of this Instant ; in which Letter he also informs me , and in another of a former Date , of about Ten of my Friends in Huntington and Godmanchester , and there-about , who formerly were Quakers all of good repute , who now go to Church there ; and that Margaret Everard has had her youngest Son , and three Daughters lately Baptized : Also , by Letters from Bedford , I have an account , that some both in the Town and County of Bedford are come off from the Quakers and gone to Church , particularly W. Mather and his Wife ; also at Reading , divers who were formerly Quakers and were so Educated , have gone to Church and have been Baptized , and some there have brought their Children to be Baptized , and here at London , divers of both Sexes who were educated under the profession of Quakers have been lately Baptized and go to Church , one of whom is my Youngest Daughter , my Elder Daughter having been Baptized above a Year ago , so that to my certain knowledge above forty Persons within a few Months past are come off from Quakerism , and brought to the Church , which gives a good ground of hope , that many others will follow , which God in his great Mercy grant , and prosper my sincere , tho' mean Endeavours and Labours , and other his Servants , whom he has made instrumental in this Work , and for the success he has been pleased to give us therein , all Glory , and Honour and Praise be given to his most worthy Name , through Jesus Christ , Amen . And whereas my adversaries G. W. and other of the Preachers of the Second Days meeting at London , had given it as a reason why they would not meet me at Turners-Hall , to dispute with me , at the former Meetings for the Years 1696 , 97 , 98 , according to my published Advertisements , that they knew none who had been in Unity with them , since I came into England , who did own me , or were in danger by me to be brought off from them , that Objection , to their Knowledge and full Conviction , is now quite removed , for both R. Bridgeman and M. Everard , ( besides divers others that might be mentioned ) were not only in Unity with them , since my arrival into England , but in great repute among them . R. Bridgeman , having been but lately a Member of their Men's Meetings at London , and one of the Twelve , who were entrusted with the receiving and distributing the Money collected for their poor in the City of London ; and Margaret Everard having for many Years , till of very late , been received and well owned as a Speaker among them , both in City and Country . And it is most certain , that the Quakers refusing to meet with me , at Turners-Hall , to answer to the Quotations I produced out of their Books , has been a great means to let many of those formerly in Unity with them , see their sandy Foundation , and the badness of their Cause , and will yet be a further means to give many others the like discovery , who are dissatisfied with their not appearing either to vindicate their Books and Authors , or to acknowledge the great Errors contained in them , and publickly to retract them . They are indeed brought to a very pinching dilemma , if they will not appear in publick view , to answer to the charges of the vile Errors and Heresies , yea , and Blasphemes brought against them , by plain Quotations out of their Books presented to the People present by ocular inspection , they now see by experience of what is past , what the consequence will be , even that many of themselves will see they have a bad Cause , which because they are not able to defend , they find out and devise frivolous excuses , why they will not appear . And if they will appear , there is the like and equal danger , that their Errors , Heresies and Blasphemies will be detected to their own People , as indeed the last Meetings , where some of them , ( though none principally concerned , ) did appear , have had a good service in some owned by them , to give them a discovery of them . There remains but two shadows of Reason why they will not appear , one is , that it is offensive to civil Authority , but this is a meer pretence , for whatever offence it may be to some particular Persons that may too much favour their errors , yet it can be no just offence to Civil Authority , there being no Law against it , and where no Law is , there is no transgression , nor can it be supposed , that it can offend the civil Authority , that such an innocent and probable way to reduce the Quakers from their vile Heresie , which God has in measure manifestly blessed with some Success , and to bring them to the Church , is used to that effect : For , must not some means be used to reclaim them , and what means so probable as this ? The Act of Tolleration , to be sure , doth not forbid any , by fair Reason and Argument , to deal with them , for their Convincement ; and for an Instance , that this manner of proceeding is not offensive to Authority , I had the leave of the Lord Mayor of London , for each of the Meetings I have yet had . Their other shadow of Reason , is , That they think it better to Answer in Print to what is objected against them , out of their Books , than by Word of Mouth . I confess , indeed , it is the most ready and expedient way for them to hide and cloak their vile Errors , and boldly to deny them , whenever so justly charg'd with them , by their Sophistical Quibling and Evasions ; and particularly , by their boldly asserting the Quotations to be falsely , or lamely given , when they are ever so truly and fully given , which not one of many thousands , simply by Reading their pretended Answers and Defences in Print , can be able to judge , whether the Quotations be true or false , perfect or lame ; because they have not , nor can they easily find out the Books , out of which the Quotations are taken , whereby to compare them ; and suppose the Books could be found , yet few will bestow so much , either time or labour , to compare them ; whereas the presenting the Books and the Quotations contain'd in them , by Ocular inspection , to Persons present , saves all that labour , and is the surest and readiest way , to find out the truth of Matters , in point of Truth or Error , and whether or not the Quakers are justly charged with those Errors . Beside , if they think their Answering to the Charges against them , by Print , be profitable to them , had they Truth on their side , they would be ready to defend their Principles and Profession both ways , that is , both by Word of Mouth , and also by their Pens , for still two ways are better than one ; if both be proper to the same true end , which is the Discovery of Truth and Error . But notwithstanding of their brags , and telling that they have Answered me from time to time in Print , yet this is but an empty flourish ; divers of my chiefest Books against them , for the detection of their Errors , they have not given the least Reply unto ; as my Second and Third Narratives ; my Book , call'd , The Quakers Arguments against Baptism and the Supper , &c. Examin'd and Refuted ; my Larger and Shorter Catechisms ; my Book , call'd , The Deism of W. Penn , and that call'd , The Fallacies of W. P. and his Brethren , &c. And tho' T. Elwood Printed a pretended Reply to my First Narrative , yet the Answer given to it , call'd , Satan Disrob'd , which hath effectually discover'd the falseness and folly of it , hath not received an Answer from them to this Day . And their usual way of answering Books writ against them , is to Quible and Evade in some few particulars , and wholly to pass by the most material things urged against them : And yet to boast and brag , that they have given a sufficient Answer . And whereas Jos . Wy●th , in his Printed Paper , in Answer to my late Printed Advertisement , saith , They ( i. e. the Quakers ) in common with all Protestant Dissenters , are Intituled to the peaceable Profession of their Christian Principles , and may be deemed imprudent to call it in Question , &c. To this I say , it is a meer begging the Question , That either their Principles are Christian , or that they are Intitul'd to the peaceable Profession of what they call so , In Common with Protestant Dissenters . The Act of Toleration has no more declared their Principles to be Christian , than the Toleration that Holland and other Common-wealths , have given to Jews and Papists , doth declare their Principle to be Christian . Besides , tho' the Quakers think it imprudent in them , to call their Principles or Profession in question , yet it is no breach of the Act of Tolleration , nor imprudence in me , or any , who have sufficient evidence to give of their Unchristian , yea , Antichristian Principles , to call them in question , and that publickly in the Face of the Nation . And cannot the Quakers defend their Principles in Sober Disputes , in a Christian Assembly , without breach of Peace , or invading their peaceable Profession ? How frequently did they provoke , but some Years ago , to publick Disputes , Ministers of the Church of England , whose Religion ( was more than Tollerated ) was Establish'd by Law ? By the Quakers Argument , this was a breach of the Peace , and an Invasion of the peaceable Profession of the Religion Establish'd by Law in the Nation . But , to deal plainly with them , I do not think that either the Profession of G. Whitehead , or Jos . Wyeth's Principles is so much as Tollerated by the Act of Tolleration ; and if they will call me to an Account for this my plain dealing with them , before any Judicatory , I shall , by God's Assistance , be ready to Answer . I neither envy , nor grudge the connivance they have , but seeing they are become so insolent with their false and unjust pretences , to what they have not , as if the Act of Tolleration did not only give them a permission , but did entitle them to a peaceable profession of their most Antichristian Principles , which they most falsely call Christian , that their Principles may not be called in question , and fairly examined , and the falshood of them detected in that publick manner that I have hitherto used , it is high time to tell them of their mistake , that the Act of Tolleration doth neither of them , and that therefore the best and only safest and readiest way to be included in the Act of Tolleration , is for them to reject , retract and renounce their vile errors , especially those against the holy and ever blessed Trinity , whereof I have sufficiently proved them guilty if this foregoing Narrative . Jos . Wyeth indeed , hints at the most politick Reason they have for refusing to meet with me , to hear themselves proved guilty of vile Heresies , that it would be a too publick exposing themselves to the danger of losing their pretence , to their being intituled to the peacable profession of their Principles , which in other words he expresses thus , To trifle away that for which they account themselves so thankfully engaged to their Superiours , the intent of which he saith , [ viz. The Act of Tolleration ] In it's Preamble , is declared to be , to Unite the King's Protestant Subjects in interest and affection . Surely by this way of his Arguing he must needs think that to come to a publick , fair , and free Tryal , were to endanger their liberty of Profession , or trifle it away : But how can this trifle away their liberty , if their principles be Christian , and that they are sure , they are by virtue of their Christian principles included in that Act ? To suppose their may be a danger to trifle away their liberty , or peacable profession of what they call their Christian principles , by publick Tryal , is to suppose , that upon due examination , their principles may be found not to be Christian , which if once discovered would trifle away that liberty , and therefore it is their best policy to hide and cover their principles , all that they can , and still lie hid as the Snake in the Grass , for the evil doer hates the Light , and is not willing to be brought to the Light. But how little do the Quakers regard the intent of the Act of Tolleration , declared in its Preamble to Unite the King's Protestant Subjects in interest and affection , when they continue generally to this very Day , in their horrid uncharitableness towards all visible Christian Societies , both Church of England and all Protestant Churches , That they are no part of the Church of Christ , that their Religion , and Worship is false and idolatrous , the people belonging to those Societies are Worshippers of Baal , and their Ministers Priests of Baal , Deceivers , Antichrists , denyers of Christ come in the Flesh , the bane of Soul and Body of Mankind , &c. And have never to this Day , retracted this Language ; is this to Unite the King's Protestant Subjects in interest and affection , to rail against that Religion , and Church , whereof the King himself , and the best of his Subjects are members , and to call me and my Friends for owning that Church , and coming into Communion with her , and relinquishing the errors condemned by that Church , Apostates , and Runagadoes , as they have done , and still continue to do . For his insinuation of my envy , which ( he saith ) increasing , has led me into a disturbance of Mind , which in its course resembles the returns of a delirious affliction . I think it not worth noticing further than to give it as an instance of his and their Scornful , Proud and Haughty , as well as Uncharitable and Unchristian Temper and Spirit . They reckon me their Enemy , because I tell them the truth , and labour to rescue them from out of the Snares of Satan , and seeing my sincere labours God has been pleased to bless with success both in America and here away , none of their malicious Insinuations or Accusations against me , are nor I hope , shall be of force to stop me from my Christian Duty , to contend earnestly for the Faith of Christ , which they seek to destroy . Note , Since the last Meeting at Turners-Hall , there is come to my hands , a pretended Answer to a Printed half Sheet of mine , call'd , A Synopsis W. P. ' s Deism , by Benj● Cool , called , Sophistry Detected , of which shortly I purpose ( God willing ) to give an answer and therein to detect his dull Sophistry , false Quotation , and gross Perversion . FINIS . The Correction of Errata , most of which are not material , yet to prevent Critical Objections , are Corrected as follows . PAge 1. Line 16. for truth defended read truths defence . p. 2. 1. 19. f. the r. this . 1. 30. after redemption should be a break — p. 3. 1. 23. after p. 47. r. say 't is contrary to Christ to say , it is an error that . l. 41. for that r. the p. 4. l. 14. on the Margin for p. 413. r. 463. l. 38. for counsel r. council . l. 39. after counceller should be a break — l. 42. before you should be [ p. 5. l. 41. before know r. and. p. 6. l. 7. for he confesseth it and r. doth not disown it but. l. 8. dole the Spiritual Man judgeth all things . l. 9. after World r. I am the Way , the Truth and the Life . p. 7. l. 14. for haughty r. lofty . l. 16. after gift r. and Spirit . p. 8. l. 20. after come up . l. 36. for 54. r. 45. l. 45. after Colchester r. p. 12. 13. p. 10. l. 20. after perfect should be a break — l. 35. before as dele is perfect . l. last . after broken should be a break . — p. 11. on the Margin add compare . l. 9. after adoption r. p. 217. l. 11. after Church r. G. M. p. 301. l. 12. after thing r. G. M. p. 27. meaning surely the Quakers Church put within [ ] . l. 21. for false r. self . l. 22. after upright should be a break — l. 37. after these r. things . p. 12. l. 44. after Wisdom r. p. 18. p. 13. l. 45. after which r. state . p. 14. l. 31. on the Margin for G. W. r. G. F. l. 37. after witness r. the Scripture . l. 46. for truth r. truths . p. 15. l. 1. after thou add hast . p. 15. l. 22. after Sons r. any p. 16. l. 25. for p. 23. r. p. 4. p. 17. l. 84 , after was dele a. l. 35. before the female dele in . l. last . for where r. when . p. 18. l. 11. the Quotation out of Truth and Inno. p. 10. beginning at the and ending at Christ , should be in Italick . p. 19. dele no. p. 23. l. 20. for 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 r. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . l. 32. r. Christianity . p. 24. l. 27. for p. 15. r. 155. p. 25. l. 26. after Quakers r. 7. l. 29. before Chapters for and r. or . p. 26. l. 30. after defending r. p. 18. Q 29. p. 27. l. 32. for affirming r. saying to this purpose , Reason against Railing . p. 109. p. 28. l. 36. after Rule r. Append. to Chr. Quaker . p. 141. p. 29. l. 11. after Nature r. G. M. 246. l. 35. for erroneous r. erronious . p. 30. l. last . for single r. singular . p. 31. l. 36. after lake r. p. 10. p. 32. l. 28. for Doctrins r. Darkness . p. 34. l. 6. after Switch r. p. 50. ▪ p. 37. l. 11. for 19. r. 18. p. 38. l. 36. as a Man hath a Coat or Garment but doth not consist of it , should have been of Roman Letter and within [ ] to distinguish them from the Quotation . p. 41. l. 43. for must r. might . p. 42. l. 25. after 44. r. to this effect . l. 29. for 44. r. 56. p. 43. l. 14. for 21. r. 20. l. 25. after Figure r. — and it is a manifest forgery upon me , that Christ's coming in the Flesh was but a Figure or Type of the inward Christ or Light within . p. 45. l. 24. after defence r. Truth and Inno. p. 54. p. 46. l. 3. after Blood r. of . l. 23. after Jerusalem r. to it . l. 24. for was r. is . l. 31. after Colchester r. p. 14. p. 47. l. 5. after Faith r. Light and Life . p. 45. l. 10. for P. r. V. l. 24. as is evident in the place quoted , should be in Italick . p. 47. l. 32. r. is not . l. 34. should be in Italick . p. 48. l. 1. after useth r. Truth and Inno. p. 55. l. 26. after saith add Truth and Inno. p. 57. p. 49. l. 16. before here r. Truth defended , p. 23. 24. l. 24. after it r. viz. l. 37. after within dele , p. 50. l. 40. before they r. that . p. 51. l. 26. after which r. will. l. 30. r. shall rise . after Life r. and. — p. 52. the two last lines should be put in Italick . p. 54. l. 12. for an r. and. l. 17. for terms r. term . p. 56. l. 20. after 293. r the answer is as it was . l. 22. after Womb r. a holy thing . l. last , from the word yet , to l. r. in p. 57. after greatest should be put betwixt [ ] . and in Roman Letter . p. 57. l. 12. after of dele the. l. 14. after Person make a break — l. 17. before Tho' should be a break — p. 58. l. 35. for Word r. Mind . l. 40. for for this r. his . l. 44. after Word should be a break — p. 59. l. 11. after Life should be a break — l. 41. after Colchester r. p. 12. p. 60. l. r. dele not p. 62. l. 18. for state and r. state of . p. 64. l. last . before the r. Truth and Inn. p. 9. p. 68. l. 25. for Israel r. Saints . p. 71. l. penult . for Manicheus r. Manicheans . p. 72. l. 16. for and reign r. or reign . p. 81. l. 7. after is r. ibid. l. 43. after Christ r. being a meer Spirit . l. 36. for above r. alone . p. 82. l. 24. after Spiritual r. p. 14. p. 85. l. 30. after God r. p. 55. l. 33. before And should be a break — p. 56. l 40. for in r. is . after Types should be a break — p. 57. ibid. for this r. his . l. 45. before so should be a Break — p. 86. l. 8. for can be r. is . p. 88. l. 12. after believed r. Switch . p. 38. p. 94. l. 13. after S. E. r. Light and Life . p. 58. p. 95. l. 16. after therein r. Antidote p. 224. 225. p. 96. l. 16. for p. 248. r. p. 250. p. 98. l. 29. for 6. r. 26. p. 101. l. 44. after G. W. r. in Truth and Inno. p. 105. l. 32. dele the. p. 106. l. 3. for dim r. one . l. 18. after this Light r. in Believers and regenerate Persons . l. 25. for works r. work . l. 40. r. defending . p. 107. l. 40. for materal r. material . p. 108. l. 38. for add r. and. A Catalogue of the Authors and Books of Quakers , quoted in this Narrative , and some Books of their Opponents . GReat Mystery by G. Fox Printed 1659. Fol. Saul 's Errand to Damascus . By G. F. &c. 1653. In 4to . Truths Defence . By G. F. and Richard Hubberthorne about 1654. In 4to . Voice of Wisdom . By G. W. 1659. In 8vo . The Watcher . By J. Parnel . In 4to . A Brief Discovery of the Dangerous Principles of Jo. Horne , by G. Whithead 1659. in 4to . Truth Defending the Quakers , by G. Whithead , &c. 1659. in 8vo . A Brief Discovery of the Three-fold State of Antichrist , by G. F. &c. 1653. in 4to . Doctrine of Perfection Vindicated , by Jo. Whitehouse , 1663. in 4to . Fr. Howgil ' s Works . 1676. Fol. Several Papers given forth , by G. F. 1671. in 4to . W. Penn ' s Reason against Railing , 1673. 8vo . W. Penn ' s Christian Quaker , 1674. Fol. Appendix to Christian Quaker . 1674. Fol. W. Penn ' s Sandy Foundation . 1668. 4to . Ishmael and his Mother , by G. W. &c. 1655. 4to . G. Whitehead ' s Divinity of Christ . 1669. 4to . Light and Life , by G. Whithead 1668. 4to . Quakers Plainness , by G. Whithead 1674 8vo Primer , by G. F. Jun. and Stephen Crisp . 1682 240 Serious Apology , by W. Penn 1671 4to W. P ' s Rejoinder to Jo. Faldo 1673 8vo Rich. Hubberthorne ' s Collection 1663 4to He Goat ' s Horn Broken , by G. Whithead 1660 4to . Edw. Borrough ' s Collection 1672 Fol. W. Penn ' s Address to Protestants 1679 4to Jacob found in a Desart Land 1656 4to William Bailie ' s Collection 1676 4to Tho. Elwood ' s Answer to my First Narrative 8vo Truth Defended , by T. Elwood 8vo Nature of Christanity , by G. Whithead 1671 4to Christ Ascending above the Clouds 1669 4to G. Foxe ' s Distinction betwixt the two Suppers 1685 4to News out of the North , by G. Fox 1655 4to Glory of Christ within by G. Whithead , &c. 4to True Faith of the Gospel of Peace , by Ed. Burr . 1656 4to Some Principles of the Elect People of God , by G. F. 1671 4to W. Penn ' s Key , last Edition 1699. a little 8vo . Antidote against the Snake , by G. W. 1697 8vo Switch for the Snake , by Jos . Wyeth 1699 8vo Truth and Innocency , by Geo. Whithead 1699 4to Judgment Fixed , by Geo. Whithead 8vo Some Account from Colchester , by Seven Quakers 1699 4to G. Whithead's Christian Epistle to Friends 1691 4to G. Fox ' s Canons or Orders 1669 8vo A Few Positions of the sincere Belief , &c. by G. W. &c. 1698 A Testimony for the true Christ , by the Quakers 1668 4to BOOKS against the Quakers Quoted . Quakery Slain , by Christopher Wade 1657 4to His Second Book to the People called Quakers 4to The Scornful Quaker Answered , by Magnus Byne 4to A further Discovery of that Generation of Men called Quakers , by Five Ministers of New-Castle , 1654 4to The Way cast up , by Geo. Keith , 1677 8vo This Book was Published by him , when under the profession of a Quaker ; tho' many things in it are contrary to the Quakers , particularly , the Prayer quoted in this Narrative , p. 21. Notes, typically marginal, from the original text Notes for div A47145-e880 G. Myst . p. 213. Switch . pag. 79. Snake , pag. 85. Switch . p. 453 , 465. Switch , pag. 38. G. W's . brief Discovery , p. 18. Isaiah 11. 3. Truth and Inn. p. 12. G. M. p. 229. Saul's Errand , p. 11. G. Myst . p. 282 G. M. p. 310. G. M. p. 281 , 318. G. W's . brief Discovery , p. 15. G. M. p. 248. Switch , pag. 59. F. Howgel's Col. p. 232. Truth and Inn. p. 13 Switch , pag. 46. C. Wade's second Book , p. 4. Truth and Inn. p. 16. Some Account from Colchester , p. 9. to the End. G. W's . Truth and Inn. p. 50. Switch , p. 184. Several Papers , &c. p. 47. Truth and Inn. p. 51. Notes for div A47145-e12630 W. P's Rejoinder , p. 299 , to 307. R. Hub. Coll. p. 49 , 50. He Goar● Horn , p. 11 , 12. Truth and Ion. p. 72. Notes for div A47145-e21950 * Heb. 2. 11 , 14. * Antidote p. 39. Voice of Wisdom , p. 36. Judgment Fixed , p. 330. Heb. 9. 28. 10. 14. Heb. 8. Coloss . 1. 20. Light and Life , p. 45. Switch , p. 205. Light and Life , p. 64.