A Farther account of the great divisions among the Quakers in Pensilvania, &c. as appears by another of their books lately come over from thence, intituled, Some reasons and causes of the late separation, that hath come to pass at Philadelphia, betwixt us, called by some of the seperate meeting, and others that meet apart from us : more particularly opened, to vindicate and clear us and our testimony in that repsect, viz. : that the seperation lieth at their door, and they, and not we, are justly chargeable with it : with an apology for the present publication of these things. 1693 Approx. 63 KB of XML-encoded text transcribed from 12 1-bit group-IV TIFF page images. Text Creation Partnership, Ann Arbor, MI ; Oxford (UK) : 2006-06 (EEBO-TCP Phase 1). A47144 Wing K166 ESTC R16901 13370090 ocm 13370090 99300 This keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the Early English Books Online Text Creation Partnership. This Phase I text is available for reuse, according to the terms of Creative Commons 0 1.0 Universal . The text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. Early English books online. (EEBO-TCP ; phase 1, no. A47144) Transcribed from: (Early English Books Online ; image set 99300) Images scanned from microfilm: (Early English books, 1641-1700 ; 460:7) A Farther account of the great divisions among the Quakers in Pensilvania, &c. as appears by another of their books lately come over from thence, intituled, Some reasons and causes of the late separation, that hath come to pass at Philadelphia, betwixt us, called by some of the seperate meeting, and others that meet apart from us : more particularly opened, to vindicate and clear us and our testimony in that repsect, viz. : that the seperation lieth at their door, and they, and not we, are justly chargeable with it : with an apology for the present publication of these things. Budd, Thomas, 1648-1699. Furnis, Henry. Keith, George, 1639?-1716. 23 p. Printed for J. Dunton ..., London : 1693. Philadelphia edition, 1692, signed: Thomas Budd, George Keith, Henry Furnis [and others] Reproduction of original in Cambridge University Library. 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Society of Friends -- Pennsylvania. 2005-05 TCP Assigned for keying and markup 2005-08 SPi Global Keyed and coded from ProQuest page images 2006-01 Emma (Leeson) Huber Sampled and proofread 2006-01 Emma (Leeson) Huber Text and markup reviewed and edited 2006-04 pfs Batch review (QC) and XML conversion A farther ACCOUNT OF THE Great Divisions AMONG THE QUAKERS In PENSILVANIA . &c. As appears by Another of their Books lately come over from thence , Intituled , Some Reasons and Causes of the late Separation That hath come to pass at Philadelphia , betwixt us , called by some the Seperate Meeting ; And others that Meet apart from us . More particularly Opened , to Vindicate and clear us and our Testimony in that respect , viz. That the Seperation lieth at their Door , and They ( and not We ) are justly chargeable with it . WITH An Apology for the present Publication of these Things . Rom. 16.17 . Now I beseech you brethren , mark them which cause Divisions , and Offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned , and avoid them . 1 Tim. 6.3 . If any man teach otherwise and consent not to wholsom words even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ , and to the Doctrine which is according to Godliness , &c. v. 5. from such turn away . 2 Cor. 6.14 . Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers , &c. and v. 17. Wherefore come out from ●●●ng them , and be ye seperate , saith the Lord , and touch not the unclean thing , and I will receive you , &c. Rev. 2.20 . Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee , because thou sufferest that woman Jezabel , which calleth her self a Prophetess to Teach , &c. London , Printed for I. Dunton , at the Raven in the Poultrey , 1693. An Apology for the present Publication of these Things . WE are sorry that we should have occasion to publish such Account of things , in the open View of all who may read the following Account , or hear of it , that may be occasion of Grief to many , especially who had better Thoughts of some here-away , than the said Account doth give of them , and it is too probable , the Enemies of Truth and of all true Religion , will seek to take Advantage there-from , and think themselves greatly gratified thereby , so as to rejoyce the more in their Iniquity , and glory over the sincere Lovers and Professors of Truth . But as on the one hand , we have been deeply afflicted with Sorrow , to find some so highly pretending to Truth , and to the inward and immediate Teachings and Leadings of the Spirit of Truth , which they have greatly professed , and some of them have Preached for some years , so very Ignorant and unsound in some of the Chief and Fundamental Principles of the Christian Faith and Doctrine , and so resolute and confident in their Ignorance and Errour , that they have from time to time refused and rejected good and seasonable Information , and means of Instructions that have been in Love held forth unto them , partly in publick Testimonies , and partly in private Meetings and Conferences . So after our great and deep Affliction of Sorrow on their account , and for the sake of many simple people that owned them as Ministers of Christ , whom we saw to be greatly hurt , blinded and darkened with them , but not further enlightned by means of them , notwithstanding of their great and high pretences to Light and Life , and to the Spirit and Power of God inwardly revealed ; we can and do sincerely say , on the other hand , God hath greatly comforted us , and we have great Joy and Consolation in the sence of his Love , revealed and sealed to us by his holy Spirit in our hearts , being perswaded by the same , that according to his Soveraign Wisdom , Goodness and Power , and great Faithfulness , he will make these very things , to wit , the Discoveries that some men have lately given of themselves , to work for good to many ; and we may sincerely and uprightly say , They , and not We , have discovered and made publick these things ; for when they heard true and sound Doctrin preached , cencerning Christ and the true Faith in him , &c. they have whispered against it , and publickly rejected it , which yet hath been greatly refreshing and edifying to us , and to many others , having felt the Power of Christ accompanying that Doctrine , and sealing to the Truth of it in our hearts ; so that not only we have owned , and do own the Doctrin that hath been preached among us of late Times , by divers that God hath raised up in a zealous Testimony to the Truth of these Things ( Denied by some , and Rejected by others , and meanly esteemed by too many , as not Necessary , but Indifferent Matters to Salvation , to be believed , though true ) but also , we have owned , and do own the Spirit by which that Doctrine hath been zealously delivered unto us , being perswaded , it was of God ; and we do not judge so rashly and uncharitably as some do , calling that sincere and godly Zeal , that hath appeared in some among us in publick Testimonies , Anger and Passion : But it is no new thing to hear Light called Darkness , as well as Darkness called Light , and Good , Evil and Evil , Good : We believe and are perswaded , that as to the main , it hath been , and is a sincere godly Zeal , that hath been of God's raising in some of our Brethren , both to preach in publick Testimonies this Doctrine , so much of late contradicted by some , and slighted by others , and to defend it with great freedom and boldness in private Conferences and Meetings , and at some Monthly Meetings , notwithstanding of what humane Weaknesses ( as to Circumstances ) might at times , on great Provocations , attend some , that we believe God hath forgiven , which have been far greater on their side , than on ours , wherein some of them have exceeded all bounds of Christian Moderation , to the pronouncing Dreadful Woes against the Innocent ( which none of us have done ) and giving bad Names to such who did not deserve it ; thus putting the Sheep of Christ into Wolves and Bear-skins , to render them odious , and to be the Object of Tongue and Heart-Persecution , which too much abounds in this part of the World , although by the Mercy of God , and the good Laws of the Country , Persecution by Violence of the Hands , is restrained . Now that these men have been the Discoverers of their own Ignorance , Error and Unbelief , is very apparent , because they not only dared to whisper against sound Doctrine in private , but only in Meetings appointed to hear these Differences , and even at Monthly Meetings , they have been so bold as to resist sound Doctrine , and shew their Unbelief , and the Nature of our Meetings being such , especially our Monthly Meetings , that too many come to them , and sit in them , hearing all things there said , that are not qualified , either with Christian Knowledge or Prudence , or indeed with humane Discretion , as men , to conceal things that are not always seasonable to be published , insomuch that scarce any thing hath been said or done in a Monthly Meeting for a long time past , but it is soon after publickly known : And we desire to reverence the Providence of God , and to acknowledge his powerful Hand , Wisdom and Goodness , and great Faithfulness in this Discovery ; for we are well satisfied , it is far better that the hidden things of Esau be searched and found out , than to remain hid ; for when Achan had Transgressed in the Camp of Israel , and had hid the accursed thing , the Anger of the Lord was kindled against them , until he was discovered , and Judgment executed against him . And seeing it is so , that many evil and hurtful Opinions , that are as poysonous Weeds , have had too much place among us , but have so secretly lurked under Ground , and yet have brought forth bad Fruit above Ground ; for it is the Nature of Errors in Doctrine to produce Errors of Practice , and evil Conversation of Life , that we did not know that such bad Fruits did spring from such bad Principles of Doctrine that were held by them , but we did rather impute them to some other Cause , than to Ignorance or Error in Judgment . We have great cause to rejoyce and bless God , that his Light hath made this Discovery among us ; for the Light discovereth Darkness , as well of Errour and Unbelief , in relation to Doctrine , as in matters of bad Conversation : And we are fully perswaded , that it is an infallible sign of that approching Glory of God's blessed Day that is more abundantly to be revealed among us , and in us , which many of our faithful Friends have fore-told , as nigh at hand , and all the Faithful have much longed and waited for , and continually pray for . And it will have a service to bring many to Truth , that have stood at a distance , because of Offences and Stumbling-blocks that have been laid in their way , through the Ignorance of many , especially who have professed the Truth with us , after some sort , but have not received the true and sound Knowledge of it ; and too many that have presumed to preach and pray in our Meetings , their way both of preaching & praying , hath been very offensive to many tender-hearted people , by their pretending greatly to the Spirit 's Leadings and Movings , when they have expressed very unsound and unsavoury words , and have greatly discovered their unskilfulness in the Mystery of Christ , both outwardly as he came in the Flesh , died , and rose again and is ascended , and the great benefit of his outward Coming to men , as so known and believed by them , and as inwardly revealed ; so that many who have come to our Meetings have been as a hungry Child that greatly needed the Breast , and thirsted for the sincere Milk of the Word , having heard a great Noise of it , but when they came to suck , they did not find that which answered their desire , and went away dissatisfied , and the Breast it self was so daubed over with what was unpleasant to them , as Mustard or Chimney-Sout is to the Mouth or Taste of a Sucking Child . But God having so ordered it by his great Love , that by his marvellous Providence discovering these things , that hath been a long and great hurt and hindrance to the prevailing of Truth among us , and causing his Light to spring up more clearly among us , that Christ and the Faith of him , both without us , and within us , is sincerely and powerfully preached by some of God's raising up among us , more clearly and fully than many have formerly known , although the Doctrine is the same in matter and substance , that the most faithful and foundest Friends and Brethren have all along held from the beginning ; and we are infallibly assured , this present Exercise that is at present so heavy and grievous to many honest hearted , for want of a through discerning and understanding the Mind and Counsel of God therein , and his blessed Purpose , for the advancement of his Truth , shall greatly tend to their Comfort in due time , and to the Comfort of many , to raise them up to give Glory to God , with high Praises in their Hearts and Mouths , for what he hath begun to do , and will finish and perfect in his own time , for the Exaltation of his own Name , and the Name of his dear Son , that the Mystery of him , even that great Mystery of Godliness , which is Christ come in the Flesh , and God manifest in the Flesh , even in that Body of Flesh , through Death , to reconcile us unto God , with the blessed Effects and Fruits of it , inwardly witnessed by the Revelation of him in us , may be yet more gloriously revealed , that the Souls and Hearts of many may be affected with the same , and overcome therewith , to love him , and live to him , who died for them , and rose again , and to love God , and live to God , through him , in all holy Obedience , who gave him freely unto them . And though the Adversaries of Truth may for a small time rejoyce a little , and seem to be gratified and strengthned in their Enmity against Truth , and the sincere Lovers and Professors of it , so as even to seem to glory over them , yet after a little time their joy will be turned into sorrow , and their great glorying and seeming gratifyings , into Discontents and Frettings , when they shall be made to see and acknowledge the Hand of the Lord in all these things ( to their great Amazement and Disappointment ) for the good of all that love him ; and the Exaltation of his Name , and promoting Truth and Righteousness in the Earth , that his Kingdom may come in greater Power and Glory , and his Will may be done on Earth , as it is in Heaven . And as for all such who are by a false Spirit , acted to Prophecy false things concerning us , ( and to pronounce Woes against us ) and our present Work and Testimony , as if both it and we should fall and come to nothing , ( as some have done : ) Our Faith and Trust is in God , and our Dependance and Reliance is on him , whose we are , and whom we serve , and for whose Glory and Honour we are zealously concerned in this present Service , with true Humility of Mind , and earnest Prayer unto God , that he will preserve and strengthen us to the end , and make our Almond Rods to bud and blossom , while others that resist the Truth of our Testimony will wither ; for of a Truth , God is with us , and on our side , whose blessed Power and Presence we feel , to encourage and strengthen us ; and therefore let such who gain-say the Truth of our Testimony , and from a rash , head-strong , and wilful Spirit , make opposition to the same ; take heed what they do , lest they be found Fighters against God , ( for what is of God will stand , let ever so many high and bold Pretenders to that which they are not real Professors , contradict it , ) and lest that be fulfilled concerning them , that is written , Acts 13.41 . Behold , ye Despisers , and wonder and perish , for I work a Work in your Days , a Work which ye shall in no wise believe , though a man declare it unto you , compared with Hab. 1.5 . And further , the false Reports and Rumors that are already spread abroad concerning us , by many , laying all fault upon us of this present Breach and Division , and loading , not only us , but the Truth it self , with many false and bitter Aspertions , Reflections , and Calumnies , will be cause enough ( we hope , to all impartial people to whose hands this shall come , ) to be a just Apology to us , for the Vindication of Truth , and the sincere Doctrine of Christ , that is greatly reviled in divers great and weighty particulars , particularly the Doctrine of Christ's being in Heaven in the true Nature of Man , and Substance of the Seed of Abraham and David , which he took of the Virgin , according to which he is called the Seed of the Woman that shoud bruise the Head of the Serpent , and which was promised to Man immediately after the Fall , and the Faith of him and in him , as such , its being necessary to our perfect Justification and Salvation : His Coming again and Appearing without us to judge the Quick and the Dead , in the appointed Time that approacheth ; and the Resurrection of the Dead , and Day of Judgment , when all Mankind shall stand before the Son of Man : It is dreadful and astonishing to think what Uomit and Filth some of late have cast out against these precious Doctrines and Testimonies of Truth , some calling them Popery , some Presbyterian and Baptist's Principles ; but we must not reject all that either Papists or Presbyterians , or Baptists profess in words , and which our Charity obligeth us to judge , that some among them really and sincerely believe ; as that there is one God , and one Lord Jesus Christ , and one holy Spirit , and many other good and wholsom parts of Christian Doctrine ; but the greater is the Shame , and the Offence and Stumbling-block is the greater , in the way of many , that divers plain and first Principles of Christ's Doctrine , owned by all Christendom , or at least for the most part , should be either denied or questioned by any among us , that make so high Pretences to the Spirit of Christ , and yet are so ignorant of the Doctrine of Christ , whereas the Spirit of Christ leadeth all who have it , to believe and own Christ's Doctrine , and honourably and worthily to esteem of it , and the true Witnesses of it , where ever it is preached . And concerning Christ's Coming and Appearance without us , ( even the Man Christ Jesus , in his glorified Nature and Body , that is not the Godhead , but the Temple of it , ( in the Time appointed , that is nearer at hand than many are aware of , which will be very dreadful to all the Workers of Iniquity , and especially to all Unbelievers that do not believe that he will ever so appear , although the Scripture Testimony is very full and plain thereto , and will be very refreshing and full of Comfort to all that believe in him , and believe and wait for him , that he will so appear , and that the time hasteneth ; We Warn all , not to make light of it , for it is a great and necessary Doctrine of the Christian Faith , highly conducing to true Christian Piety and Godliness , that he will come again and appear without us , to judge the Quick and the Dead , lest they be found among such , and numbred with them , concerning whom he spoke , with relation to that very time when he should so come to raise the Dead , and judge the World , Luke 18.8 . Nevertheless , when the Son of Man cometh , shall be find Faith on the Earth ? Some Reasons and Causes of the late Separation here at Philadelphia . THE first cause of the Separation betwixt them and us , was this , That at a Monthly Meeting held at Philadelphia the 29th of the 11th Month last , T — having openly in the face of the Meeting , accused G. K. for denying the Sufficiency of the Light and promising to bring his Evidence the next Monthly Meeting , or then that he would acknowledge he had done amiss . And at the next Monthly Meeting being required to give his Evidence , he brought W — who was known to be a prejudiced person against G. K. and so could be no sufficient Evidence against him , besides that , divers were present at the Place and Time , where and when W — alledged he heard G. K. deny the Sufficiency of the Light , &c. that cleared him , That they heard him both then and at all occasions , that he delivered his Mind on that Subject always bear Testimony to the Sufficiency of the Light to Salvation . And at the said Meeting , being the 26th of the 12th Month , T — having said in the Meeting , ( in Answer to a Question put to him by G.K. ) That he had not learned that Lesson , whether the Body of Christ that was nailed to the Cross , crucified , buried , rose and ascended , &c. was the Godhead , or somewhat that Christ took of the Virgin. At which man● were greatly oftended to find him so ignorant , having been so l●●g a Preacher . And after much discourse about these Matte●s , the M●eting did adjourn with unanimous Consent of them that staid , which was the far greatest part , and also with the consent of T — himself , and these who went away before the adjourning of it , said nothing against it , nor was the Meeting understood to be broke up before the adjournment , only some few did go away , it being cold Weather , and growing dark ; the adjourning of the said Monthly Meeting was to the next Day about the 8th Hour , at which time they met in the School-house , where the Meeting used to be kept at times in the Winter Season . And after much discourse concerning T — in the said Meeting , he being required to prove his Charge , and to condemn his great Ignorance and Unbelief ; but refusing to do either , ( though he said publickly in the Meeting , ) If he did not prove his Charge against the next Monthly Meeting , he would acknowledge his Errour , and yet did neither , ) and going away from the Meeting , the Friends of the Meeting ( some that were present that were not in the Profession of Truth , removing at the desire of Friends ) did give a unanimous Judgment concerning T. — a true Copy whereof here after followeth . And the said Judgment being desired by Friends that gave it to be recorded in the Monthly Meeting Book , at the next Quarterly Meeting , that happened within a few days after , a Party in the Meeting did withstand it , and denied them that gave Judgment to be a true Monthly Meeting , and consequently their Judgment was void . And by this it plainly appeareth , the Breach was on their side ; for there is no Equity or Reason why they having denied us to be a Meeting ▪ that we should own them , seeing we were really a Meeting , lawfully adjourned , consisting of at least Sixty Persons , most of which used to keep Monthly Meetings , and owned to be Friends in the same Profession with them . And at the same Monthly Meeting , on the Sixth Day , W. — an antient Preacher , having renewed his former Accusation against G. K. charging him openly in the face of the Meeting , That he Preached Two Christs , because he Preached Faith in Christ within , and in Christ without us , &c. and on the next day , at the Meeting adjourned , he being sent for by the Meeting , to make his Charge good , or else condemn his Ignorance and Error ; but he refusing to come , the Meeting did also give a unanimous Judgment concerning him ( not one Dissenting in either of the Judgments , only one or two signifying their not throughly understanding the Case , declared their unclearness , but said nothing against it ) the true Copy whereof doth also hereafter follow . And this Judgment also given by the Meeting , being refused by a Party in the Quarterly Meeting , to let it be entred in the Monthly Meeting Book , gave us just Offence , because in so doing , they refused us to be a Monthly Meeting , and denied our Judgments , which we are perswaded in our Consciences , by the Spirit of Truth , was a just Judgment concerning these Men , and we could do no less , both for the Peace of our Consciences , and the honour of Christ Jesus , and also for the Credit of our Profession , in all parts of the World , where such a Profession is made , than to give such a Judgment concerning these Men. [ Note , That G. K. had no hand in giving Judgment concerning th●se Persons and Matters , but was wholly passive , he being the Person accused . And also , No●e , That they which refused our Judgments , were present at the said Monthly Meeting , but when they perceived things to go contrary to th●ir Mind , they with-drew . ] Another thing , wherein the said Party , both in the Quarterly and Monthly M●●●ing , gave us Offence , was , That whereas great Opposition had been made by them against a late printed Book , entituled , The Christian Faith of the People of God called Quakers in Rhode Island , vindicated , &c. several Friends presented to this Meeting a Paper , desiring the Meeting to be cautious , not to oppose the Rhode-Island Friends Testimony to the Truth ; whereupon , after having read , and duely considered the said Rhode-Island Sheet , Judgment was given by us , approving it , and VV. B. for Printing it ; but this also was refused by them to be recorded in the Monthly Meeting Book , wherein they have given a Three-fold Instance that they have denied us to be a Meeting . A Practice that we never knew before among the People , called Quakers , that ever such a thing was suffered , that one party of a Monthly Meeting should deny their Brethren , and leave them , and yet afterwards lay claim to them , when they themselves made the Separation . Here follows a true Copy of the Judgments given at the Monthly Meeting at Philadelphia , the 27th Day of the 12 Month , 1691 , 2. which was the Meeting adjourned by consent from the 26th , to the 27th day , where they met at the School-House , as used in cold Seasons . WHereas at the last Monthly Meeting , Thomas Fitswater , openly accused G. Keith with denying the sufficiency of the Light , which G. K. denying , T. — insisted that he could prove the same . And coming into this Meeting , to prove his Charge , brought VV.S. as his Witness , whom the Meeting having heard , the said T. F. by his own consent , left the Matter to the Judgment of this Meeting ; which they having duly weighed and considered , they do unanimously agree , and deliver it as their sence , That the said T. F. do give forth a Paper of Condemnation of his falsly charging G. K. and to clear the said G. K. of the said Charge . As also , it is the Sense of this Meeting , that the said T. F. do give Satisfaction to the Friends of this Meeting , by a Paper of his true Faith and Belief in Christ's Resurrection ; and as he is now in Heaven , in the Glorified Nature of Man , which is not the Godhead , he having given this Meeting great cause to question his Belief therein ; and that he forbear offering his Gift by way of Testimony in our publick Meetings , until he hath given Friends and G. K. Satisfaction in manner abovesaid . Whereas VV. Stockdale , having formerly accused G. K. with Preaching Two Christs , and the Charge and Matter having been fully Debated at the last Yearly Meeting , before publick Friends , and others , who did deliver it as their Sense and Judgment , That the said W. S. had abused G. K. thereby ; and that G. K. 's Doctrine was right and true in his Preaching Faith in Christ within , and Faith in Christ without ; and the said VV. S. having never given any Satisfaction , but at this Monthly Meeting did say , That what he had formerly said in his Charge against G. K. he did yet stand by , and justifie : The Friends of this Meeting do deliver it as their Sense and Judgment , That the said W. S. should condemn his Unrighteous Charge publickly , by giving forth a Paper of Condemnation for his so doing , and that he desist offering his Gift by way of Testimony , till he hath so done . There being a Paper presented to this Meeting , Signed by several Friends , in relation to the Rhode-Island Paper , entituled , The Christian Faith , &c. recommending the Service of the said Paper , &c. whereupon the said Paper being read in this Meeting , the Friends thereof do unanimously agree , and give it as their Sense and Judgment , That the said Paper is for the general Good and Service of Truth and Friends , in this Country , and elsewhere ; and that it came forth very seasonably for the Vindication of Truth and Friends ; and the W. B. ought not to be blamed , nor discouraged for Printing the same . Signed by Order of the Meeting , by J. W. The Names of some of the Friends that gave the aforesaid Judgments at the said Monthly Meeting the 27th of the 12 Mon. 1691. George Hutcheson , Paul Saunders , John Lynam , Ralph Jackson , Phillip James , Richard Hillyard , Anthony Sturges , Thomas Peart , Thomas Tress , John Lostus . William Harwood , James Chick , Thomas Morris , John M Comb , John Hutchins , James Cooper , Thomas Winn , John Hart , Anthony Taylor , Abel Noble , Nicholas Pearce , John Furnis , John Redman , John Williams , Ralph Ward , William Dyllwin , John Duploveys , John Budd , William Bradford , William Paschall , Joseph Willc●x , Thomas Budd , Thomas Hooton , Thomas Paschall , Humphrey Hodges , Henry Furnis , Robert Wallis , Thomas Jenner , William Davis , Francis Cook , Henry Johnson , Joseph Walker , Hugh Derborough , William Say , William Hard , But , that it may appear how weak and insufficient the Reasons are , that were given by the said Party at the Quarterly Meeting , why we were no Meeting , we think sit to give an Account of them , with our Answers to them . One Reason was , That a Monthly Meeting could not Adjourn , and there was no President for it : But to this the Clerk of the Meeting answered , That he had Minu●es to sh●w , a Monthly Meeting had formerly Adjourned ; and why could not a Monthly Meeting , upon a weighty occasion Adjourn , as well as any other Meeting ? Another Reason was , That the Clerk and the Monthly Meeting Book was gone : But to this it was answered , The Monthly Meeting could make or conslitute a Clerk as other Meetings have done ; for it is the Meeting that makes the Clerk , and it is not the Clerk that makes the Meeting . A third Reason was , There are few of the Friends of the Ministry , or Elder Friends and Brethren that were present at the Adourning , or at the Meeting Adjourned . To this it was answered , That there were more , both Friends of the Ministry , and Elder Friends and Brethren at that Meeting that did Adjourn , and met when Adjourned , than hath been at many Monthly Meetings here , that have been approved . And a 4th Reason was , That the matter of Difference being a matter of Doctrine , and betwixt Friends of the Ministry , a Monthly Meeting could not be proper Judges of it . To this it was answered , That the Difference being a matter of Fact , ( and not a matter of Doctrine that could be called in Question by any Judicious Christian ; ) and the Accusation being made to the Monthly Meeting they were proper Judges of it ; and if the Difference had been a matter of Doctrine , we did , and do assert , That the Monthly Meeting , to wit , consisting of a considerable Number of Friends of the Ministry ; and other Judicious Friends were proper Jueges of it ; but to lodge the Judgment wholly in Friends of the Ministry , and to deny all other Friends to have a share in the Judgment , even when the Difference is in a Matter of Doctrine , we judge is an Encroachment upon our Christian Liberty , and savours too much of the Church of Rome ; as also that other case pressed too indiscreetly at the Quarterly Meeting , when some that were known to be Parties against G. K. did require of him his Submission to the Judgment of the Meeting ; he answered ( as we judge soberly and Christianly ) That he would submit to the Judgment of the Spirit of Truth in Friends ; but to give an absolute Submission ▪ he could not , to any Society of Men whatsoever : for absolute Submission implyeth absolute Infallibility , that no Society of Men pretendeth unto but the Church of Rome , and therefore , to introduce it among us , would be Rank Popery ; at which some prejudiced against G. K. were greatly dissatisfied , and one took out his Pocket Book , and writ down some words of G. K. to that effect before he had finished the full Sentence , which we judge was very unfair , as well as unusual . But whereas some from this would infer , as if G. K. denied any positive Power of Judgment to a true Church , or Meeting of true Christians , met together in the Name of Christ , where he is present in the midst of them . G. K. gave no Ground for any such inference ; for he doth readily grant , That a true Christian Assembly hath a positive Power of Judgment , when met together in his Name , and that he is present in the midst of them , and is felt and witnessed to guide them in true Judgment . But we all know , that it is possible at times , that Partiality , ond Prejudice , and Annimosities may prevail in Meetings , that may pretend to meet in the Name of Christ , and also to have him present in the midst of them ▪ and yet , where such things prevail , Christ is not in the midst known to give true Judgment , or to guide Men to give it , as Friends Letter to us from London expresly declareth . And therefore we judge , That no absolute Submission should be required of any Member , to the Judgment of that Society he belongeth unto in a matter of Truth , or Christian Doctrine , or wherein the Conscience is concerned ; for it is time enough to submit to the Judgment of Brethren , when a Man hath heard it , and has brought it to the Ballance and Test of that which giveth true Judgment in every Particular that is in a quallified Frame to understand it , even as Christ said , As I hear , I judge , John 5.30 . And if any be stiff and Refractory to the true Judgment of the Christian Society he belongeth unto , they may freely proceed to put into Practice , Gospel Discipline against him , without requiring his Submission , as it is in Worldly Judicatories . But if any say , At least it was yielded in the Quarterly Meeting , that the Adjourned Meeting in the School-house was a true Meeting , but an Appeal was made from that Monthly Meeting to the Quarterly Meeting , and the Quarterly Meeting offering to give a new Judgment in the Case , and in order thereto , ordered G. K. to withdraw ; he refusing so to do , hindered that no Judgment could be given . But to this it was , and is answered , That there could be no Appeal from that Monthly Meeting , to the Quarterly Meeting , because most of the Quarterly Meeting did consist of the Friends that gave the Judgment at the Monthly Meeting ; and such as were over , were but a few in comparison , except some Country Friends that did not care to meddle in that matter , and so to appeal from the Monthly Meeting to the Quarterly Meeting , was in effect but to appeal from the Monthly Meeting to a small part or Number of Persons in the Quarterly Meeting , the most of which , and the most leading Men , were known to be prejudiced against G. K. and Parties against him ; and G. K. did offer very fairly in naming Seven or Eight Persons , that we know were his opposite Parties ( and had been mainly Instrumental at former Meetings about a Year ago , and at the time of the Year●y Meeting , to hinder Justice to be done , and true Judgment to be past concerning bringing W. S. to Conviction and Condemnation of his Error ) That if they would go out , he would go out also ; but they who were his manifest opposite Parties , and had manifestly appeared from time to time to excuse and defend VV , S. and blame G. K. for his sound Christian Doctrin , that he hath Preached among us , refusing to go sorth ; we are satisfied G. K. did well not to go forth , so as to submit to the Judgment of these Men , who had sufficiently shown their Partiality against him , and some of which had unjustly accused him , as can be well proved . Besides , things being duly considered , there was no reason that G. K. should have gone sorth , either at that Meeting , or any other ; for G. K. was no otherwise concerned in that Difference with W. S. and T. F. than all faithful Friends , and the whole Meeting ought to have been concerned , to wit , to defend one of the greatest Principles of the Christian Faith , viz. That the Man Christ Jesus , who was Crucified , did rise from the Dead ▪ and is now in being , And that Faith in him is necessary to make Men true Christians ▪ And therefore not G. K. alone , nor principally , but Christ himself , and all his faithful Followers are concerned in the same ; and in none of these Meetings was any Charge of any Trespass proved against G. K. nor so much as brought under the Consideration of the Body of the Meeting , only one or two particular Persons falsly accused him , but the thing was never brought to any due Tryal . And here let it be noted , That both the Meeting of Friends of the Ministry at R. E.'s refusing to answer G. K's Complaint against the dishonour done to Christ Jesus , that W. S. was guilty of , so as to bring him to any Conviction or Condemnation of his Error , and also the Meetings at the House of S. C. and A. M. at the time of the Yearly Metting , wholly neglecting to bring the said W. S. to Conviction and Condemnation of his Error , altho' at the last of six Meetings it was declared , That G. K.'s Doctrine concerning Christ within , and Christ without to be One Lord Jesus Christ , was true , and that therefore W. S. was blame worthy ; and yet after all this W. S. persisted in his false Charge against G. K. and hath been greatly excused and supported by many , that this hath given such deep Ground of Offence , to all of us , with other things concurring , that because to this day nothing hath been done ( it being now above a Year since Complaint was made against W. S. ) by these of the other side , who meet in a Separation from us , either to bring W. S. or T. F. to Condemnation , but suffer them to continue to Preach and Pray in their Meetings ; therefore we do justly judge , That the whole Meeting that meet in a Separation from us , that owneth these Men , and tollerateth them in their great Error and Trespasses , are guilty with them , and accountable for their Errors ; and therefore according to Christs Command , recorded in the holy Scripture , we ought to be separate from them , altho ' ( as hath been sufficiently proved ) they began the Separation ; and they having begun it , we cannot in Conscience unite in Meetings with them here at Philadelphia , until they give satisfaction to Truth in these weighty things . The Second Cause of the Separation ( which also we lay at their Door ) is , That whereas in the Monthly Meeting in the first Month last , a Proposition being made to change the Meetings , both at the Centre , and in the Town ; and some being for the said Change , and others against it , and having good Reasons why they were against the said Change ; yet a Party in the Meeting , contrary to our declared Mind and Assent , assumed a Power over them that dissented , to change the said Meetings ; a thing we have not known formerly allowed by Friends any where in their Monthly Meetings , that one Party ( suppose equal , or greater in Number than the rest ) should assume a Power to appoint or change Places and Times of Meetings , without the Consent of their Brethren ; for things , of that Nature especially , use always to be done with unanimous Consent , and not by Plurality of Votes , which is not the way of Truth ; and because we were not free to stand to the Arbitrary , and rash Determination , as to that Change , therefore we met at the ordinary Meeting-place as formerly practised , and they began the Separation , in keeping a publick Meeting in the Afternoon at the Bank , contrary to our declared Sense and Mind , only some of us met at a private Family Meeting in the Evening , at the House of G. K. that could be counted no seperate Meeting for that day . And afterwards , we finding they were resolved to continue in their way of Separation , and that some had endeavoured to lock us out from Meeting at the Bank in the Forenoon , this put us upon seeking a new place to meet in , in case we had been disappointed of the other ; and tho' some of us did declare our sincere Intention and Sense , that it were good but to have one Publick Meeting on first Days , to end about the second hour , and the remaining part to be used for private Meetings in Families , yet their keeping up their publick Afternoons Meeting , hath given us just occasion at present to have a Publick Afternoons Meeting , as well as they ; for we hope they shall not have any cause to say against us , that we are short of them in our Zeal for good Meetings . Things being thus far advanced , and the Separation being begun , and carried on so far by them , and justly chargeable upon them , some of them having desired us to make some Proposals , or Expedients for healing the Breach , and uniting again as formerly ; after some time we sent some Proposals to them , that we were satisfied in our Consciences were most equal and just , and such as the Truth required of us ; but they are so far from being satisfied with most of them , that they have the more blamed us : some insinuating , as if we had transgressed the Law ; but we are not afraid of any such thing , provided true Liberty of Conscience , according to the just and due bounds of it , be allowed to us ; and for our part , we are so well satisfied , that all our Proposals to them ( in that Paper signed by Fifteen of us ) are just and equal , that if they please , we shall freely consent to their Printing of them , The sum of which Proposals doth principally consist in these two things ; first , That all such of the Ministry among them , whom we can prove Guilty of the Preaching false Doctrine , or of falsly accusing the Innocent , or excusing and defending the Guilty , and contending against some sound Principles of Truth , in Meetings appointed for hearing these Differences , may be brought to Cnviction and Acknowledgment of their Error and Trespasses : And 2dly , Seeing ( by a marvelous Providence that hath discovered it ) that our Monthly Meetings bere-away have consisted of a mixt Number of some Believers , and some Unbelievers , or of some Men , unsound in the Christian Faith , that we agree together to put Robert Barclay's Doctrine ( well approved of by the best of our Friends in England , and particularly by G. F. and G. W. ) into Practice in his Book , called , The Anarchy of the Ranters , &c. see § . 4. p. 32 , 33. and § 6. p. 48 , 49 ▪ which is , To declare our Faith and Perswasion in certain Fundamental Doctrines of the Christian Faith and Religion , that by the same , as well as by a good Life and Conversation , it may be known who are quallified to be Members of our Church ; and that every one owned to be a Member of our Church , declare his Faith and Perswasion in every one of these Fundamentals , which is a secondary Bond of our Union , the Spirit being the principal , which may be easily done by answering to some plain Questions , with Yea or Nay . And now a Third and main Reason that we give for this Separation , well warranted both by Scripture Testimony , and command of Christ , Recorded in Scripture , and the truth of it sealed to us , by the Spirit of Truth in our Hearts , that whereas there are divers of them guilty of most gross & Unchristian Errors , against the Fundamental Doctrines of the Christian Faith , who are Publick Preachers among them , and whole Ministry they sit under , and some encourage them , others tollerate and suffer them ; and that others , even of their Preachers are guilty of other gross Errors ▪ and other Trespasses , that render them altogether unqualified for the Ministry , and to uphold or tollerate them , is to bring Reproach to Truth , and our Holy Prosession , and to the Body of our faithful Friends , with all whom we remain in dear Unity , in all parts of the World , hoping that Faithful Friends and Brethren , that have an impartial account and information of us , and do rightly and duely consider and examin the Righteousness of our Cause , will encourage us therein , to the Disappointment of such who affirm the contrary ; but we being principally supported and encouraged by the Spirit of Truth in our Hearts , that as such Men immediately guilty of these vile Errors , some of which , no Protestant Christian Society would tolerate , neither Episcopal , Presbyterian nor Baptist , are to be turned away , and seperated from ; so that Society is to be turned away from , whoever they be that doth uphold and tollerate them , and bring them not to due Conviction and Condemnation , after due and sufficient notice is given unto them , as there hath been a long time , from one Meeting to another , as concerning some of them , now many Months since past , and nothing done effectually to bring them to any Conviction , but that it seemeth they are resolved still to support or tollerate them . Now the Scriptures that warrant us in this Separation ( altho' as is said first made by them ) are these following , 2 Cor. 6.14 , 15 , 16 , 17. 1 Tim. 6 , 3 , 4 , 5. 2 Tim. 6.2 , 3 , 4 , 5. Tit. 3.10 . Rev. 18.4 . 2 Thess . 3.6 . Rom. 16.17 . Rev. 2 , 14 , 15 , 20. and the same is expresly confirmed by the Doctrine delivered by R. Barclay in his said Book , well approved by good Friends , who expresly saith , p. 52. We do safely conclude , that where a People are gathered into a Belief of the Principles and Doctrines of the Gospel of Christ , if any of that People go from their Principles , and assert things false and contrary to what they have already received , such as stand , and abide firm in the Faith , have Power , by the Spirit of God , after they have used Christian endeavours to convince and reclaim them , upon their Obstinacy to Seperate from such , § . 6. p. 52. and § . 4. p. 33. he saith , The Escapes , Faults , and Errors of such who own , believe and profess the same Doctrine and Principles of Faith with us , and go under the same Distinction and Denomination , may by our Adversaries , justly be imputed unto us , if not seasonably and Christianly reproved , reclaimed or condemned . And therefore we judge , that we have equal Ground and Cause of Seperation , as well from that whole Society that doth not condemn these Men for their gross Errors in Fundamental Doctrines , as we have to seperate from these particular Men , seeing they who tollerate them , both by Scripture and R. B's Book , are guilty with them , and the Errors of these Men may be justly imputed to them . Note , That whereas it hath been said by some , That they would have dealt with these Men who have been guilty of those Errors , but that G. K. would not go forth , being desired to withdraw at the Meeting at R. E 's , and at the Quarterly Meeting : To this it is answered , That G. K. had good reason not to withdraw at both these times , because at both these times , these who did take upon them to be Judges , were his manifest Parties against him , and so could not be in Justice his Judges ; but at the Yearly Meeting he did withdraw at the Meeting 's Desire , and yet they did nothing to bring W. S. to Conviction ; besides , it was not G. K. but the Truth it self , that the Difference was concerning ; and they have had sufficient time since to have done it , but nothing that we can hear of is done . But it is very strange , what some have said , That no Error in Doctrin or Trespass whatsoever of particular Persons , though tollerated by a Society , that we were joyned with in the Possession of Truth , can be any just cause of Seperation , doth equally blame all our Friends in their Seperation from the respective Societies they were formerly joyned in Profession with , as some in their Seperation from the Church of Rome , others from the Episcopal , others from the Presbyterian and Baptists , and doth equally blame the Separation of the faithful Martyrs in Q. Mary's days , from the Popish Worship in England , yet well approved generally by our Friends . And surely for People of contrary Principles and Spirits , and having a contrary Faith and Perswasion in Fundamental Doctrines , to be united together in one Worship , would make the greatest Confusion imaginable , and be incomparably more like Babylon , than the true Church of Christ ; and so to affirm , is contrary to all common Sense of any that hath the least true Notion of a Church , that ought to be as a Field or Garden , as clean of Weeds as possible ; for tho' the Tares are to be suffered to grow in the Field of the World , yet they are not to remain in the Church , according to Christ's Doctrine . But at this rate , the Weeds shall remain with the good Corn and Herbs in the same Garden , yea , and exceed them , that cannot but greatly hurt the good Corn and Herbs . Besides , how can the Gardner delight in such a Garden that is full of Weeds , and no care to seperate the good Herbs from the Weeds . And tho' it hath been said by some , That as the Faithful stand in the Power of God , they shall have Dominion over the Unfaithful : But we find no warrant or promise , that God will give them Dominion , if they obey not his Command , which is To Seperate , and withdraw from such , and not to remain in Fellowship with them ; for what part hath a Believer with an Infidel ? 2 Cor. 6.15.17 . POSTSCRIPT . WE have seriously considered , how that of late Years , especially , many are crept into a bare out-side Form of the Profession of the People of God , called in Scorn , Quakers , and have assum'd or suffered themselves to be called by that Name , and have frequented not only their publick Meetings , but also their Men and Womens Meetings , and some have presumed to Preach and Pray therein , that to our certain knowledge , by manifested Evidence of Words and Works , are not worthy to be reputed Members of a Christian Society or Church of Christ , because of their great Ignorance and Unbelief in the first Principles of the Doctrine of Christ , whereof some here-away of late have given sufficient proof , to the great Scandal of our holy Profession , by their plain and express words , uttered before divers credible Witnesset , and sometimes by their unsound Doctrine published , and gross Perversions of Scripture , to the Observation of many who are but of weak understanding , and some of them have been detected of scandalous Conversation , and have not given any convincing Evidence of their true Repentance , and that there hath been too much forbearance used by some toward such , for their hardning and emboldning themselves against the Truth , and faithful Friends and Brethren , & that by the marvellous Providence of God , that hath suffered such things to come to light , some have discovered their woful Ignorance , Unbelief , and gross Errors by their late words , without all shame or fear , and that some others have appeared too manifestly inclined to cloak , excuse and support them , which giveth us too great occasion to suspect them guilty of the same , or the like things ; and that things are come to that pass of late , that contrary Testimonies are born in Meetings by — one against another , and yet both pretending to the Spirit of Truth , and great Disputes and Contentions have been of late betwixt — one against another , before not only many , called Quakers , but some others that never were of that Profession , & that concerning several Fundamental and Principal Doctrines of Christian Faith , as first , Whether we are only to believe in Chr●st the Light within us or whether we are to believe both in Christ within us as he is Light and Life , and also in Christ without us , as he died for our sins , rose again , and is Ascended ▪ as he was that great Sacrifice of Attonement for our sins , and is our high Priest and Mediator , and Advocate with the Father for us in Heaven : 2dly , Whether to preach Faith in Christ within and Faith in Christ without us , be to Preach Two Christs , or one only Christ Jesus , the Measure of Christ within us , and the Fullness of Christ without us , in the Man Chr●st Jesus , be●ng One Lord Jesus Christ , as the Light of the Sun that is in the Body of the Sun in fullness , and the measures of it that come into our Eyes ; are but one Light and one Sun , and as the Life that is in the Root and Branches of a Tree , is but one Life , the fullness being in the Root , and the measures in the Branches . 3dly , Whether it be a Doctrine necessary to be preached , and believed to make a Christian , viz. ( throughly and intirely in all necessary parts , ) to believe in Christ without us ▪ as he is true and perfect God , and true and perfect Man , &c. 4thly , Whether Christ hath now any thing in Heaven that he had not before the World was ; or , Whether Christ's Body that was Crucified and nailed to the Cross , and was buried , did rise again , and is Ascended into Heaven , Some questioning , Whether is rose ? Some saying , It rose , but after it Ascended into the Cloud , Christ was seperated from it : Some saying , It was no part of the Virgins Substance , or of Mans Nature that Ascended in Heaven ; and one saying , He had not yet learned that Lesson , whether that which was Crucified without us , was tho Godhead , or some-what that he took of the Virgin ; others saying , This is a Nicety , and to be ignorant of such a thing , or not to believe such a thing , doth not hinder , but that a Man may be a true Christian , and a Minister of Christ . 5thly , Some accusing and charging some of their Brethren , as dividing Christ because they Preach Faith in Christ both without us in Fullness , and within us in the Measure : Others justly charging them , That they who preach only Christ as within , do divide Christ in a false and wrong Notion of him . 6thly , Some accusing their Brethren for denying the Sufficiency of the Light within to Salvation , because they preach , That the Sufficiency of the Light within , is not to be set up in Opposition to the Sufficiency of the Man Christ without us , in whom the Fullness is , as if the Measure within us were the whole Saviour , excluding the MAN CHRIST without us ; and also because they distinguish betwixt the first Ministration of Light , common to all Mankind , and the second , that is peculiar and special only to true Christians , or such who have the Faith of Christ crucified , &c. revealed to them ; both these Ministrations , with all other diversity of Operations and Gifts coming from one God , one Lord , and one Spirit , who is over all , through all , and in all , Ephes . 4.6 . And also , because they cannot set up the present Measure of Light and Grace to be sufficient for all time to come , but exhort Men to Wait and Pray in the help of the present Measure of Grace received , to receive more Grace from him , who hath the fullness of it , even the Man Christ Jesus . And lastly , that they cannot set up the Sufficiency of the Light within , in opposition to the necessary and great outward Helps and Means of Salvation , such as the holy Scriptures , and Preaching , and Teaching of Faithful Men. And beside these great Questions and Disputes that have happened among us , there have been others concerning the Resurrection of the Dead , and Day of Judgement ; as Whether the Saints have got the Resurrection of the Body already ? or Wheth●r they get it immediately after Death ? or VVhether they wait for it generally unto Christs coming ? and VVhether Christ is to come without us , to judge the Quick and the Dead ? and VVhether there is any Day of Judgment beyond the Grave ? and VVhether there is any great and general Day of Judgment that the Deceased are in Expectation of ? And this is but a hint of these things that have been in Question and Debate among us here-away in Pensilvania and VVest-Jersey , &c. to which , many other great and weigthy things of Christian Faith and Doctrine do so necessarily relate , that they stand or fall together . And it is no small Grief and Wound to us to find some so little concerned about these things , as if they were not so material as to cause any just Seperation , or Breach of Fellowship , when we know , that for less Errors many of us have seperated from other Professions ; and we cannnot but declare before the World , our Godly Zeal moveth us to a holy Impatience , that we cannot longer bear ( some of us having born the weight of these things for many Months ) such gross Ignorance and Unbelief , and gross Errors , tending to the denying the Lord that bought us , and making Void his Death and Sufferings , without bearing witness against them , who either hold them , or support & defend them ; and we are convinced & perswaded in our Consciences , that God calleth us to seperate from such Unbelievers , and not to be yoked together in Church-Fellowship and Discipline with any that we have not Proof of by Confession of the Mouth , that they are sound in Faith , touching these necessary and Fundamental parts of Christian Doctrine , as well as that their Conversation is such as becometh the Gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ . And we have been so much grieved with the Confusion and Disorder that hath lately happened in our Meetings , because of these things , ( more like Babylon than a Church of Christ ) that we have great Clearness and Peace in the Lord , to retire and seperate from such disorderly Walkers and Talkers as we have formerly done from other Professions , to meet together in the Name of Christ , having the true Faith of him , and of his Promise , To be spiritually present in the midst of us , and to wait upon him , and be refreshed and edified , whether in silence , or any living Testimony of words that God shall be pleased to enable any among us to bring forth . Yet we design not any Separation from our Faithful Brethren here , or any where else in any part of the World ; for we declare , we are one with all our Faithful Brethren in all parts of the World , both in Spirit , Doctrine and Practice of true Christianity ; and we faithfully believe , that our Faith in all things doth well agree to our faithful Brethren every where , and is the real , sound and upright Faith , as it hath been received , not only by Antient Christians , in all Ages of the World , but also by the most sound Antient and present Friends of Truth , called in scorn Quakers . And we altogether deny and disown to be called the Disciples or Proselites of Man or Men , being spiritually baptized into no other Name than that of Christ Jesus , who was Crucified for us , and rose again , and whose Disciples and Followers we only desire to be , and to follow none , but as they follow him . A Quantity of the foregoing , with another of their Books , Intituled , The Plea of the Innocent , &c. Being sent over for Sale , which the chief Quakers here having notice of , bought them all up , in order to stifle them , which occasions their Re-printing here in England , this 9th . of January , 1692 / 3. FINIS .