An exact narrative of the proceedings at Turners-Hall, the 11th of the month called June, 1696 together with the disputes and speeches there, between G. Keith and other Quakers, differing from him in some religious principles / the whole published and revised by Goerge Keith ; with an appendix containing some new passages to prove his opponents guilty of gross errors and self-contradictions. Keith, George, 1639?-1716. 1696 Approx. 262 KB of XML-encoded text transcribed from 33 1-bit group-IV TIFF page images. Text Creation Partnership, Ann Arbor, MI ; Oxford (UK) : 2007-10 (EEBO-TCP Phase 1). A47140 Wing K161 ESTC R14328 12937458 ocm 12937458 95822 This keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the Early English Books Online Text Creation Partnership. This Phase I text is available for reuse, according to the terms of Creative Commons 0 1.0 Universal . The text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. Early English books online. (EEBO-TCP ; phase 1, no. A47140) Transcribed from: (Early English Books Online ; image set 95822) Images scanned from microfilm: (Early English books, 1641-1700 ; 717:11) An exact narrative of the proceedings at Turners-Hall, the 11th of the month called June, 1696 together with the disputes and speeches there, between G. Keith and other Quakers, differing from him in some religious principles / the whole published and revised by Goerge Keith ; with an appendix containing some new passages to prove his opponents guilty of gross errors and self-contradictions. Keith, George, 1639?-1716. Whitehead, George, 1636?-1723. Penn, William, 1644-1718. Ellwood, Thomas, 1639-1713. 62, [1] p. Printed for B. Aylmer ..., and J. Dunton ..., London : 1696. Errata: p. 62. Half title: G. Keith's narrative of the proceedings at Turners-Hall, the eleventh of the month called June, 1696. The appendix contains quotations from the works of George Whitehead, William Penn and Thomas Ellwood. Reproduction of original in Huntington Library. Created by converting TCP files to TEI P5 using tcp2tei.xsl, TEI @ Oxford. Re-processed by University of Nebraska-Lincoln and Northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. Gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. EEBO-TCP is a partnership between the Universities of Michigan and Oxford and the publisher ProQuest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by ProQuest via their Early English Books Online (EEBO) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). 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Keying and markup guidelines are available at the Text Creation Partnership web site . eng Society of Friends -- Controversial literature. 2005-05 TCP Assigned for keying and markup 2005-10 SPi Global Keyed and coded from ProQuest page images 2005-11 Emma (Leeson) Huber Sampled and proofread 2006-11 SPi Global Rekeyed and resubmitted 2007-01 Jonathan Blaney Sampled and proofread 2007-01 Jonathan Blaney Text and markup reviewed and edited 2007-02 pfs Batch review (QC) and XML conversion G. KEITH's NARRATIVE OF THE PROCEEDINGS at TURNERS-HALL , THE Eleventh of the Month called June , 1696. AN Exact Narrative OF THE PROCEEDINGS AT TURNERS-HALL , The 11th of the Month called June , 1696. Together with the DISPUTES and SPEECHES There , BETWEEN G. KEITH and other QVAKERS , Differing from Him in Some Religious Principles . The Whole Published and Revised , By GEORGE KEITH . With an APPENDIX containing some New Passages to prove His Opponents guilty of Gross Errors and Self-Contradictions . LONDON , Printed for B. Aylmer at the Three Pigeons in Cornhill , and J. Dunton at the Raven in Jewen-street , 1696. The PREFACE . THE Preface to the Friendly Readers , throughout these Three Nations , and elsewhere , professing the Christian Faith in Sincerity . To a●l you sincere B●lievers in the Lord Jesus Christ , and true lovers of him , and of that Holy Christian Religion , whereof he is the Author , throughout these three Nations ▪ and other Countries , where the Christian Religion is Professed , I do humbly recommend this following Narrative to your serious Reading and Consideration of what Station Rank or Quality soever ye be , the subject matter treated on in the said Narrative being so great Fundamentals of the Christian Religion and Faith , that the denyal of them is a downright denyal of the Christian Religion and Faith it self : Seeing therefore the Subject is so great , and so essential to the Christian Faith , it worthily deserveth and calleth for the due and serious Consideration of all the sincere Professors of Christ , to whose hands th●t may happen to come . And since the report of our late differences about Religious Matters , one with another , remaining under one common Name and Designation of Quakers , is spread far and near , not only through these Three Nations , but other Places abroad , as is apparent by the late GENERAL HISTORY of the QUAKERS , Written by Gerard Croese a Hollander , writ Originally in Latin , and lately Published in English here at London . And that the Report of the late Meeting and Conference held at Turners-Hall in London , the 11th of the Month called June , is much gone abroad through both City and Country , chiefly with respect to the subject matter there discoursed , and my undertaking against them of the opposite Party , to prove certain Persons of greatest Note among them , guilty of denying and opposing these great Fundamentals particularly specified in the following Narrative out of their Printed Books , it may be judged that both the love of Christian Verity , and the sense of Christian Duty , will oblige and induce you to read the said Narrative , if it fall into your hands , and others to enquire after it that the truth of the matter may be searched into , whether these whom I have undertaken , to prove guilty of denying and opposing these great Fundamental Truths , be really so or I be guilty in accusing them . I cannot suppose that any sincere Professor of the Christian Faith , to whose Ears the Report of this great Controversie hath come , will be a Gall●o in the Case , so as to care for none of these things . If your outward Estates , Liberty and Property , lay at stake to be endangered , would ye not be awakened to provide the b●st Remedy to secure them , how much more I hope will all sincere Professors of the Christian Religion be concerned for that which is incomparably more valuable than all these outward things ? Even the Redemption of your Souls , which is your true riches ; according to that in Prov. 13.8 . The Redemption of the Soul of a Man is h●s Riches ▪ It is reckoned the greatest Cheat and Imp●sture that can happen in a Nation to cor●upt and adulterate the true Coyn , and falsifie it , so as to make Brass or Iron pass for true Silver ; what shall then be judged of such , who seek to adulterate and falsifie the true Christi●n Religion as to put another thing in place of it , even plain Deism or Gentilism ; to w●t , a Profession of Religion towards God , and Light in Men , excluding Christ God Man and the Faith of him , as he dyed for us and rose again , and is sat down in the Kingdom of the Father , and as he is to come again to judge the Quick and the Dead in the true intire glorified Nature of Man , having the true Soul and Body of Man , the same he had on Earth . The denyal of these great Fundamental Truths of the Christian Religion , with some others necessarily related to them , and joyned with them inseparably , I have undertaken to prove my Opponents guilty of ; and not only I , but many Judicious Persons that were present at that Meeting at Turners-Hall , the 11th of the Month called June of this instant 1696 , of the several Professions of Protestants in this great City , did judge that I have effectually done it . But if I have not done it , and cannot make it justly to appear that these particular Persons are guilty of the things charged by me on them , I shall freely acknowledge that I deserve great blame , and therefore I greatly desire ( if it were the Will of God ) that I might have yet a more Publick Opportunity to be heard , as concerning these things , were it to be called before the greatest Persons of Authority in the Nation , either to make good my Charges against them , and if they be found guilty the blame to lye on them ; or if I be found guilty , that I may have the blame laid on me . But let them be found ever so guilty , as I am most sure they are , ( let them cover and cloak as much as ever they can ) I would not in the least have them persecuted , or any Sufferings , either in Person or Estate , to come upon them My design in this undertaking is , that they may be shamed out of their gross Errors if possible ; or if they continue shameless in them , yet that all others who are not as yet tainted with them , may be preserved from them , and cautioned and warned against them ; for this Gangrene of their vile and gross Errour and Heresie , that is a complex of the worst sort of Errors and Heresies that ever infested the Christian Profession , hath to my certain knowledge overspread many parts and many persons in these Three Nations , as well as elsewhere . Though I charge them not either upon the generality , far less the universality of all them called Quakers . But if they really disown these gross and vile Errors , which I have proved them guilty of in this following Narrative , and be cordial in the belief and acknowledgment of the great Fundamental Truths opposite to those Errors , then it will be that which the sincere Professors of Christianity in these Three Nations will expect from them , and may justly require of them , as publickly to retract and renounce these Errors , as they have publickly asserted them in their Printed Books in the face of the Christian World , otherwise no sincere Christians will believe them to be in good earnest , but that they resemble many old Hereticks , and particularly the crafty Arrians , that pretended and made great Protestations that they owned the true Faith , according to all contained in the Scriptures , when they did nothing less . And whereas some have Objected to me , that since I have acknowledged divers passages in my own Books need correction , and have promised to do it , I ought to have done that in the first place , before I had charged Errors upon others , otherwise it would look like the Hyprocrites seeking to pull cut the Mote out of his Neighbours Eye , when the Beam is in his own Eye . I Answer , The things that need Correction in my Books , compared with the vile Errors in theirs , are but as my Motes to their Beams , which I had so far already pulled out of my own Eye , that I have freely acknowledged them to many viva voce , and have them in readiness to Publish in Print with the first conveniency . Nor are they such things as oppose any Christian Principles of Faith , but of an inferiour nature . And it must be one of these two things that are their greatest hinderances to publish any such Corrections ; that is , either that they are still entangled in those Errors , but are not willing it be known , fearing lest the present publick avouching of them may bring some Persecution on them , or great Infamy and Reproach ; or if they be in their Consciences convinced of those Errors , and so are come to a better understanding of Christian Doctrines and Principles , yet their Pride and high Authority that they have gained over their too credulous followers will not suffer them to make any such free acknowledgment , but especially because any such free acknowledgment , by their own argument and way of reasoning against all other Ministers in all Christian Professions , would as much unminister them , as others they have unministred on that account ; viz want of Infallibility , or being subject and lyable to Errors and Mistakes in Articles of Christian Faith. And this will also not a little stick in the way , to be so humbled that they must acknowledge G. Keith has not falsly accused them , ( as they have severely charged him to have done ) if they confess their former Errors : But how much better were a sincere Confession in the case , taking shame as due to them , and humbling themselves under the power and victory of Truth , than a haughty and arrogant standing out to justifie themselves , in these things that neither God nor good Men will ever justifie them in . And if they continue so bold , as to hold such palpable Contradictions as are discovered in their former and latter Books , and sometimes in the same Books , all ingenuous Persons that know their Contradictions , will conclude them not only still guilty of those Errors , but great Hypocrites ; for n●ne but stark mad men , and crased in their Vnderstandings ( as they have falsly and injuriously represented me to be ) will hold perfect Contradictions , as such but Hypocrites may so dissemble and juggle with them that are weak so as to make them think these things , that are real Contradictions , are not so indeed , but well consistent Truths ▪ It nothing ( I thank God ) moves me that they so severely accuse me , as they have d●ne in their late Printed Pamphlets and Papers ; that Envy and Malice hath influenced me thus to expose them , the Testimony of my Conscience , and which is more , of that holy witness in my Conscience , clearing me of all such imputation , is as a Brasen Wall to me against their evil and injurious Aspersions : As they cannot prove it to be so by any of my words or deeds , so the comfort I have in that inward Peace of Conscience in that discharge of my Duty both to them , and to all in the Three Nations , to whom this my so publick Appearance , I hope will be of service , is safeguard enough unto me against their uncharitable constructions . And I do freely leave it to all Impartial Judges , whether they or I be guilty of this severe Charge ; and let the Tree be judged by the Fruits . Their pretended Excuses for not meeting me , as desired , at the Place and Time mentioned in my Printed Advertisement , are so frivolous and weak that they are scarce worth noticing : But however the chiefest of them I Answered on the Place , as the following Narrative will certifie . Their pretence of their not meeting me , for the sake of Religion , the Liberty granted us , and the Civil Peace , is an empty shift , and poor evasion . Is it contrary to their Religion to dispute their Adversary , viva voce ? Why then did they dispute with the Baptists , and mightily provoked them thereunto , and that viva voc● ? And not only with them but with many others , both at London , and in many other Places in the Nation , and that before promiscuous and mixt Auditories , as they commonly call the World , ( excepting their own Party , whom they call , The Elect People of God ) . And why did W. Penn give such a daring Challenge to Thomas Hicks , Reason against Railing , p. 184. and complain against him in these words ? I must needs tell the World , the base Cowardice of this Adversary in hand ; for we have offered him a free Meeting , with his Books in our hands proffering to refute them , viva voce , before the World ; but instead thereof , or any other way , ( as several have been tendered ) he disingenuously slinks away , and puts us off by meer Shifts and Evasions . And let the Reader judge if W. Penn has not shown great Cowardice , and his Party charged by not appearing at all ; whereas T. Hicks , at least , once appeared . But why should such a Dispute viva voce be construed to be against the Liberty granted us , and the Civil Peace , more now than then ; when at that time those in Civil Authority were more severe , whereas now they are very propitious ? And why should Disputes viva voce be more offensive to Civil Peace than Disputes in Print ? I believe they can give no Reason . And it is altogether incredible , that my undertaking the Vindication of the Fundamental Principles of the Christian Faith , professed by the present Authority , against such manifest Opposers of it as I have proved my Opponents to be , can be construed by the Authority to be any breach of the Civil Peace , especially when I had procured the Leave of the Lord Mayor of London for such an undertaking , whereof my Opponents were not ignorant . Their upbraiding me with vain speculations , not telling what those are , showeth their great impertinency : But such who are but a little acquainted with the Religious Differences betwixt them and me , may easily guess what they mean by my vain speculations , even the Fundamental Truths of the Christian Faith , and other solid and sound Articles of Doctrine thereunto belonging : And if these be not they , I dare them to name what my vain Speculations are , whereof they accuse me . But to be sure , the plain and manifest Proofs I have brought out of their Books against the greatest Truths of Christianity , demonstrate their Speculations not only to be Vain , but Pernicious and Pestiferous . Their Hypocrisie is manifest , in making what they call my Passionate and Abusive Behaviour , an Excuse for not meeting me , when desired . For if they thought that I would show any such Behaviour , it would be such an advantage to them , that it would rather be an Argument to invite them to meet me , that I may discover my self , than to disswade them . But blessed be God , that preserved me at that Meeting , when I had great Provocation given me by some of their Party , in such a Temper and Moderation of Spirit ( as hundreds are ready to witness ) as became a sober Christian , when some of them that appeared against me , shewed themselves very outragious . And as insignificant is their Excuse of declining to meet , because it was not an agreed Meeting on both sides : As if guilty Persons are not to be tryed without their consent and agreement . Was it not more Fair , Just and Equal in me , and my Friends , to give them a fair Tryal , with open and free access of all sober Persons , as many as the Place could contain without Croud , and leave it to the Consciences of the Auditors how to judge , and intimate my Intenti●n at a convenient time beforehand , than for them to condemn me in a clandestine Place without all Tryal , fair or unfair , and not to let me have access to them , but when and how little time they pleased , and to suffer none of my Friends to be present to be Witnesses of their unfair proceedings against me . Their upbraiding me by insinuating my assuming a Spiritual Jurisdiction over them , and summoning them to appear before me , is idle and vain . The Injurer is Debtor to the Injured , and accountable to him : But let them tell what Spiritual Jurisdiction they had over me , to call me several times to them at their Yearly Meetings 1694 , more than I had over them to call them to our Meeting at Turners-Hall , 1696 , unless they will fly to their common Pretence , common to them with the Church of Rome , their Infallibility ; the contrary of which they have manifestly showed ; and never any Society of People professing Christianity hath given greater Instances of not only their Fallibility , but their being miserably deceived , than these Men have done . And as idle is that other Excuse of theirs , that they will not dispute with me , viva voce , because I am gone off from them ( but they did thrust me from them by their Vnjust Excommunication , when I would have stayed among them so long as I could have any hope to have reclaimed them from their Errors ) ; but if my going off be a sufficient Reason why they will not Answer me viva voce , it is as sufficient a Reson why they should not Answer me in Print , which yet they boast they will do : For if I be not worthy nor fit to be Answered by Word , nor am I to be Answered by Writ : But all this sheweth their confusion and inconsistency . They think such a Meeting at Turners-Hall , is but in a corner , and not in the face of the Nation ; but they are like to find it hath been so much in the face of the Nation , that many in the Nation will notice it , possibly more than they would either wish or expect , and more than any thing that hath happened to them for many Years past , to give the Nation a discovery of them and of their vile Errors and irregular Practices . If my Adversaries happen to put out an Answer to this Narrative , filled ( as their manner is ) with the Falshoods and Perversions , and vain Shifts and Evasions , I purpose , with Leave of the Civil Authority , which I hope to obtain as well as formerly , God willing to Print a New Advertisement of a Méeting , and to give them timely Notice before-hand , to detect their Errors and Abuses yet further , and to renew the like Practice , as oft as they abuse the World and me with their Prints . For their unfair way of Disputing in Print , is much easier discovered viva voce , than by Answering in Print , and is more acceptable to all Free and Impartial People , who in that way are more capable to judge . G. KEITH . It is thought proper in the first place to insert the following Advertisement , bearing date the 11th of the Third Moneth , called May , 1696 , and sent to those Persons called Quakers , chiefly concerned ; it being the occasion of the following Conference . An ADVERTISEMENT . Of a Meeting ( about some Controversies in Religious Matters of Faith ) to be held by George Keith and his Friends , at their usual Meeting place in Turners-Hall in Philpot-Lane , London , the Eleventh Day of the Month called June , 1696. to begin about the Ninth Hour , and to be adjourned , if Occasion requireth : To which Meeting William Penn , Thomas Elwood , George Whitehead , John Pennington , and these of the Second Days Weekly Meeting at Lombard-street , London , called Quakers , are justly desired to be present , to hear themselves charged , and proved guilty of the following things , and they shall be freely heard , to answer to their several Charges . First , WHereas William Penn hath accused me George Keith , in a Publick Meeting at Ratcliffe , of my being an Apostate , and Impostor , and endeavouring to pluck up the Testimony of Truth by the Roots ; and that he hath not either then or since , after many months , proved his Charge to be true , tho' he promised to answer me ( before many Witnesses ) when I told him , I thought to put him to prove his Charge in the Face of the Nation : And I being conscious to my self , that I am not guilty of his Charge , I charge him to be guilty of False Accusation , and Defamation , and offer to prove him to be so ; as also I offer to prove him guilty out of his Printed Books , ( which it doth not appear that he hath Retracted or Corrected ) of most Erroneous and hurtful Principles , contrary to the Fundamental Doctrines of the Christian Faith and Religion delivered to us in the Holy Scriptures : And also that he is guilty of gross Contradiction to himself . Secondly , Whereas Thomas Elwood hath Printed sundry Defamatory Books against me , I charge him to be guilty of False Accusations , Perversions , and Forgeries , contained in his said books , as also of most Erroneous and Hurtful Principles , to the great shame of his Profession , and Scandal of Christian Religion , and I offer to prove him to be so . Thirdly , Whereas George Whitehead did joyn with a prevailing Party , in that called The Yearly Meeting of the Quakers , in the Third Month , 1695. to pass a most Unchristian Censure of Excommunication against me , ( without any Proof or Charge of either Error in Doctrine , or Evil Conversation ) I charge him to be guilty of False Accusation , and of a most false and unjust Censure , and offer to prove it against him . As also , I offer to prove the said George Whitehead , out of some of his Printed Books ( which it doth not appear that he hath Retracted or Corrected ) guilty of most Erroneous and Hurtful Principles , contrary to the Fundamental Doctrine of the Christian Faith and Religion . Fourthly , Whereas John Pennington hath Printed Defamatory Books against me , and hath Accused me to be an Apostate , I charge him to be guilty of false Accusation and Defamation , and I offer to prove it at the said Meeting . Fifthly , Whereas the Second Days Weekly Meeting of the People called Quakers , in Lombard-street , London , hath approved or Countenanced the above-mentioned Scandalous Books , and another late Book from Pensilvania , signed by Caleb Pusey , falsly called by him , A modest Account from Pensilvania of the Principal Differences in a Point of Doctrine , &c. I charge them to be guilty of great Injustice against me , as also of being guilty of the false Accusations , Perversions , Forgeries , and false Doctrines contained in the said Books by their approving the same , and allowing them to be publickly sold next Door to their Meeting-place , by one of their own Profession . If it happen that few or none of the above-mentioned Persons shall be present at the said Meeting , being conscious to themselves of the badness of their Cause , yet I do hereby declare and publish my full intention to be present , ( God willing ) with my Friends , at the said Place and Time appointed , to make good the Charges against them . And any moderate and Friendly People of other Professions , have freedom to be present , so far as there is room in the place to receive them , without Crowd or Throng , to hear what shall be said and proved in these matters above-mentioned . GEORGE KEITH . London , the 11th day of the Third Month , called May , 1696. And here I think fit to give a true Account of the Just Cause I have to intimate such a Meeting . IN my book called , A Seasonable Information and Caveat , against a scandalous book of Th. Elwood , I made a profer to Th. Elwood , to meet him at any Place and Time that he would appoint , to prove him guilty of gross Forgery in matters of Fact , &c. and also of false Doctrine : But he did no wise assent to any such proffer , nor gave any rational Excuse for his Rufusal ( pretending , he would not give G K. an Opportunity to gratifie the Rabble , and disgrace his Profession he yet made of Truth , by so publick a discovery of his ungoverned Passions ) . [ What is this but great hypocrisie ? And no doubt , if he or his Party thought to get any advantage against me , such a Publick Appearance , either in regard of the Cause , or of what he and they call my ungoverned Passions , they would greedily embrace it : But the reality of the matter is , they are not willing their great injustice , as well as their insolent carriage , and most unruly Passions in clandestine places , should be discovered ; shutting the doors upon all but themselves , that none that were equal and impartial Hearers and Observers might be present , to be a check to their rude and insolent carriage against me , many speaking to me at once , which some among themselves reproved at the first Yearly Meeting , I appeared among them . Thus they seek to murther the Reputation of the Innocent in secret places . ] And instead of assenting to my just proffer , he prints another book against me , filled with more than double ( to what was in his former book ) of Forgeries , Perversions , False Accusations and Misrepresentations . And I having neither time , nor ability of outward Estate , to print Answers to him and others , that heap book upon book against me , with no charge to them , ( they having got a way without any charge or cost to them , to Print what they please ) . And things being thus , I appeal to all moderate persons , whether this my intimation of such a Meeting , in the defence of the Fundamental Doctrines of Christianity , as the necessity of Faith in Christ , as he outwardly suffered at Jerusalem to our Salvation , Justification and Sanctification , by the Blood of Christ outwardly shed , the Resurrection of the Body that dyeth , and Christs coming without us , in his Glorified Body , even the same that formerly suffered Death for our sins , to Judge the Quick and the Dead : All which I offer to prove have been opposed and contradicted by some of them , being the common Faith generally and in common professed by Christians in all professions , and for the defence of which , all sincere Christians are jointly concerned , and also in my just vindication , both as a man and a Christian , be not justifiable and commendable , it being the best way I have at present to clear the Truth and my Innocency , and discover their great injustice towards me , and to Answer the proud and insulting boastings of my Adversaries . And whereas in my late Book , called , A short List of some of the vile and gross Errors of Geo. Whitehead , &c. I proposed a just demand to William Penn , to give me an Opportunity for him to make good his Charge against me at any publick Meeting of the People called Quakers , in or about London ; instead of his assenting to my just Demand , there comes forth a Third Book of Tho. Elwood , multiplying his gross Forgeries , Defamations , and Misrepresentations against me , and also containing most false and Antichristian Doctrine , to the great dishonour of the blessed Name of Christ , and the Christian Religion . And as if G. W. and W. P. were not alive , or not able to Answer for themselves , he will needs Answer for them ; and the said Tho. Elwood puts a most impudent and notorious perversion upon my plain words , in my Proposition to W. Penn , saying of me , as he has worded his Demand , he seems to have bespoke a Publick Meeting that he might have done it himself ; see page 159. and page 160. of his Truth defended . As if ( saith he ) he wanted such an Opportunity to prove himself an Apostate . Let the Reader but read my words in my own Book , and at the first sight he will see the Cheat and Forgery . Observe Reader my words , p. 32. And let him signifie to me the time and place where he will make it to appear . ( I say not when I will ) that his Charge against me is true . May I not well say , that ever such a gross and impudent Forgerer , Wrester and Perverter of a Mans words , should be allowed or permitted to be an Agent , Patron , or Champion for what they call the Body of the People named Quakers , and their Ministry , is a sign that they are at a low Ebb , when they make use of such Tools as T. E. is , whom I can , and do offer to prove not only to be guilty of gross Forgeries and Perversions , and Antichristian Principles , but grosly ignorant ( in that which he pretends to have knowledge ) — of Humane Learning ; and who is guilty of Pedantick trifling and quibbling , from meer Errors of the Press , not so duly corrected , yet obvious to any intelligent Reader . And to my demanding the like Justice to be done me , as some Years ago we demanded of the Baptists , against Thomas Hicks , he answereth in his last book , falsly called , Truth defended , pag. 158. That betwixt that and this of mine , there is in parallel : For ( saith he ) in that there was a people concerned on each side , &c. Whereas W. P 's calling G. K. Apostate , affects no body that I know of ( saith T. E. ) but himself and himself , but justly : neither is G. K. of any People now , so far as I can understand . Now Reader consider ( and judge by this Taste in the End of his Cask , what sort of Liquor fills the whole ) , W. P 's calling G. K. Apostate , affects no body that he knows of but himself . If this were true , as it is most false , is it not most unjust Reasoning ? G. K. is but one , and the charge of Apostate affects no body but himself ; therefore he must not have Right done to him , nor must his complaint be heard of his being wronged . Hath not every single person as real and true Right to Justice , as a great number ? Otherwise he must Justify all the Persecutions and Murthers that have been acted upon single persons , who have had none perhaps to own them but God alone . But T. E. knoweth that G. K. has Wife and Children that are affected with this unjust charge of W. P. tending to the exposing of them to ruin and want . If so be either W. P. or T. E. could beget an universal perswasion in people , that his Charge is true , but that T. E. saith , the Charge affects me justly , is his begging the Question , which neither he , nor any else can prove ; for they cannot prove that I am declined in the least , from any Principles or Practices of Christianity that I formerly professed : But that without any change of Principles , from what I formerly professed , ever since I was owned by the people called Quakers , I understand better some places of Scripture ; and that God has been pleased of late Years further to enlighten me , and enable me more clearly to conceive , and more distinctly and safely to hold forth the same Principles of my Faith formerly received by me , is no sign of my Apostacy , but of my growth in the Truth , and in the knowledge of it . And whereas there is one thing they mightily aggravate against me , and think they have catch'd me in a great Contradiction , that some time ago I had an Opinion of G. Whitehead and W. Penn , and some others , as being men of sound Principles , and of late I have charged them to the contrary . But to this I Answer , This is no contradiction in Principle , or matter of Doctrine ; the most it argueth , is , that I have been mistaken in these men : but I never heard that a mistake only in mens persons ; was ever made a Badge or Character of Apostacy . But they have no advantage against me in respect of the change of my Opinion of these men , but I have the same advantage against them ; for they have as much changed their Opinion of me as I have of them . And what change of Opinion : I have had of them , is occasioned by themselves , in their late cloaking and excusing vile Errors , which at last , by a more diligent search into their books ( than formerly I made ) I found them guilty of . But whereas T. E. saith , G. K. is of no people now , so far as he can understand ; I value not what he understands in the case ; I was then , and now am a Member of Christs body , which is his Church , that is not limited to this or that particular Society ; nor was I ever so strait in my Charity , to think none the people of God but them called Quakers . And notwithstanding their Bull of Excommunication against me , from a prevailing Party or Faction in the last Yearly Meeting , I have been since well owned , and my Testimony well received at a considerable number of Meetings within not many miles from London , and many of them owned to be Friends and members of the same body , whereof he professeth himself a member . And if it were necessary , I could easily bring a proof , that some , owned as his fellow-members , do own me more than they own him . And it is well known , that these Abuses I have met with from T. E. and W. P. and the prevailing Faction in the last Yearly Meeting , have affected many honest and Conscientious People called Quakers , in divers places , and have been a great scandal and offence to them . However , to take away all pretence of Excuse from T. E. and stop his mouth in the Case , he may see where a Meeting of People have publickly owned me , and my Christian Testimony , in their printed Treatise , called , A Seasonable Testimony ; ( and these did own me then as now ) and have disowned the unchristian and false Excommunication given forth against me by that called ; The Yearly Meeting , 1695. that gave themselves no particular designation of people , nor mentioned any particular Meeting-Place where they met , only Signed by a Raw Young Man , that serveth for his Salary , and dared not but Sign what they enjoyned him , for fear of losing his hire . G. K. THE Proceedings at TVRNERS-HALL BETWEEN G. KEITH , and Other QVAKERS . AT the Opening of the Meeting , when G. K. stood up to make some Introductory Speech to give an Account of the Occasion of the Meeting , Henry Goldney , with some other Quakers of W. Pens Party , came with a Printed Paper , giving some Reasons why W. Pen and Geo. Whitehead did not appear , which he desired might be read . It was readily granted ; and the Reasons why W. Penn and G. Whitehead did not appear , were read by G. Keith . G. Keith . Now if ye think it has not been well read , let another read it , if you think fit ; And I offer to Answer to every one of the Reasons , if you desire it . The Auditory . No , it is needless . G. Keith . This is their design , to divert us in our Business . The Reasons are so slender , that I hope every Judicious Person here can answer them . If I am such an angry person as they represent me , I shall lay my self the more open , and they shall have the greater Advantage . You know well enough that they would be glad of any Advantage against me . And then for any Offence to Authority , as they suggest , I have the Lord Mayors leave ; and he has sent his Marshal to preserve the Peace , and therefore there can be nothing in that . Their Paper rather reflects upon Authority , the Authority of the Worthy Mayor of this Famous City ; to whom I went , as I thought it was my Duty , to desire leave for this Meeting ; which he thought fit to consent to , and has sent his Marshal to keep the Peace . And I would have you to take Notice now , that they , viz. W. P. and G. W. own those Books of Thomas Elwoods , &c. that are out against me , that I knew not before . I went to G. Whitehead , and desired to know whether he owned a former Book of Thomas Elwood writ against me : He said , he would neither own it , nor disown it . And this is enough at present to Answer this Paper . I hope in God , the Lord shall preserve me , which has been my Prayer on my Knees this Morning , and many other times , that I might give no occasion of Reproach to his Name or Truth , and that Religion may not be scandalized by any thing I shall speak or act ; and I hope my Prayers shall be answered . They say , I did not exhibit to them a Copy of my Charge against them , ( an Indictment they call it , they would represent me as a Man setting up a Spiritual Court ) but my Printed Paper sayes , W. Penn , and G. Whitehead , are justly desired to be present . This is no Indictment nor Summons , as they falsly call it : And for the particulars I intend to prove against them , they were expresly mentioned in my Printed Paper , called An Advertisement , containing Four Fundamental Doctrines of Christianity by them opposed . I desired W. Penn to make good his Charge against me , in a former Printed Paper , which was , That I was an Apostate and Impostour , endeavouring to pluck up the Testimony of Truth by the roots . This he said at a Meeting at Ratcliffe , above Fourteen Months ago , and while I was peaceably speaking in that Meeting he interrupts me , and like a Clap of Thunder falls on me in the midst of my Testimony , calls me , Aposta●e , &c. I desired him also at the Yearly Meeting of the Quakers at London held 1695. to make good his Charge , and I told him , If he refused , I would put him to prove it in the face of the Nation . He justified his calling me Apostate , saying , He was in no Passion , but he was so transported by the Glorious Power of God , that he knew not whether he was Standing , Sitting or Kneeling . And since I have in Print desired him to prove his Charge , and now at this Meeting ; but he declines to appear . Ye know the saying , Affirmanti incumbit probatio , He ought to prove what he has affirmed . Quaker . H. Goldnay . If those that thou didst summon , had appeared , I do not see thou hadst provided any convenient place for them . G. Keith . If your Friends had appeared , they might have had a place : There ( pointing to a Table and a Bench s●t on it , opposite to the place where he stood ) is a place provided for them : If you will fetch them , they shall have a place ; or they might have been here with me where I stand . Strangers that stood on the Table . If they come we will give place to them . Quakers . N. M. and H. G. We came here to give an account that our Friends think not fit to be here , and have given their Reasons for it . G. Keith . It is a strange thing that th●y cannot print a Paper , but must have so many Falsities in it . They call my Paper , a Summons and an Indictment , but I meant it not so . But to leave that , and come to our business The four things which I charge them to be guilty of , are these ; and I appeal to all moderate persons , whether my intimation of such a Meeting can be blamed , when it is to defend such Points as these : Faith in Christ as he outwardly suffered at Jerusalem to our Salvation . That is the First . Justification and Sanctification by the Blood of Christ outwardly shed . That is the Second . The Resurrection of the Body that dyeth . The Third . And Christs coming without us in his glorified Body , to judge the Quick and Dead . That is the Fourth . All which have been contradicted by some of them , as W. Penn , G. Whitehead , &c. though these are Fundamental Principles belonging to the common Faith , and are generally owned by Christians of all Professions . Now , if you please , I shall proceed to my Proofs Most of my business , whether they be here or not , is to read my Proofs out of their Books , that they are guilty of every one of these Four Errors opposing thereby Four Fundamental Truths . The first is , The necessity of Faith in Christ , as he outwardly suffered for us at Jerusalem . This is the first . But that this is opposed by them , I prove thus : The O●ject of Faith is opposed by them , and therefore the Faith it self must needs be opposed . I hope the consequence is clear enough , it needs no Proof . The Object of Christian Faith is Christ , both God and Man , and yet but one Christ . But so it is that I offer to prove , that G. Whitehead , and W. Penn by approving of G. Whiteheads Books , has denyed Christ both to be God and Man. This is the thing , which if I make out , I make out my first Point . And first I offer to prove that G. Whitehead in a Book of his has denyed Christ to be God , and W. Penn has owned this Book : The Book is called , Light and Life , recommended by William Penn in his Reason against Railing , p. 186. in Answer to W. Burnet , a Baptist Preacher , Printed , 1668. P. 47. Here he first brings in the Baptists words . Says the Baptist , Now as he was God , he was Co-Creator with the Father , and so was before Abraham ; and had Glory with God , before the World was , and in this sense came down from Heaven . Now here is G. Whiteheads reply , What Nonsense and Vnscriptural Language is this ? To tell of God being Co-Creator wi●h the Father , or that God had glory with God ? Does not this imply two Gods , and that God had a Father ? Let the Reader judge . I shall read the Baptists words again , and see if there be any thing in them offensive to Christian Ears . I hope there are not many here but understand what Co signifieth , it is with . Now see if the words of the Baptist are offensive to Christian Ears ; As he was God , he was Co-Creator with the Father . Ye know John saith , In the beginning was the word , and the word was with God , and the word was God , John 1.1 , 2. See also Prov. 8. 22,3● . If these words offend any , let them speak with all my Heart . Quaker . N. Mark. If I might , I desire to have liberty to speak , when was the date of the Book ? Auditors . If you will undertake their cause , you may speak , otherwise not . Quaker . Pray hear me . The Reason why I askt him the date of the Book , is because I believe it was a book antiently written ; and G. Keith did write in Vindication of our Principles , and now for him to appear in opposition to our Principles , it appears that he has apostatized from our Principles . G. Kei●h . Now let me Answer him I do say , if it were my last words , I know not that I ever read a line of this book till I came last to England , which is about Two Years . And if G. Whitehead be wiser since , it is very well : But then he should have retracted this . For this book , and some other books of his , has leavened the minds of many in America ; as well as here , with Poysonous Errors . Stranger A Quaker . Then George Keith ought to make a candid and full Retractation of what he has said contrary to Truth , before he appeared against them . G. Keith . I own I have been mistaken in these Men : But I hope this Auditory are sufficient Judges of that , that if they cannot prove me to hold any Doctrine contrary to my former Principles , nor any Unchristian Principle , and that they have nothing against me Conv●rsation , they ought not to call me an Apostate . I never heard that a Man was judged an Apostate for changing his Opinion of some Men , especially when he finds cause so to do . Quaker . You are fallen from your former Principles . G. Keith . If you prove me not to have changed in any Fundamental Principle , ye ought not to charge me to be an Apostate . I know not any Fundamental Principle , nor indeed any one Principle of the Christian Faith , that I have varied from to this day , ever since I came among the Quakers , which is about Thirty Three Years ago ; therefore I ought to be cleared of that Imputation . Quaker . H. G●ldne● , began to speak . G. Keith . Art thou deputed to Answer to what I have Charged them with ? Stranger . They have declined your Meeting , and yet several persons ( it seems ) are deputed by them to speak . Auditors . G. Keith , go on with your Charge . G. Kei●h . There is another passage in G. Whiteheads book wherein he denies the Divinity of Christ ; and he deceives the Nation and the Parliament , by telling them , They own Christ to be both God and Man , and believe all that is recorded of him in the Holy Scripture , and no wonder he has deceived me . In his pag. 24. Light and Life , he saith , To tell of the word God Co Creator with the Father , is all one as to tell of God being Co-Creator with God , if the Father be God , and this is to make two Gods , two Creators , &c. For God Co-Creator with the Father , implyes two . Ye see this is positive ; and he puts this Censure on the Baptists words , Thus Nonsense , Confusion and Blasphemy is heapt up against the Light within . Quaker . We tell you , that whereas G. Keith hath Printed several Books , they have Answered them from time to time ; and he has left two Books unanswered ; and whatever he will print to the contrary , we will defend our Principles . G. Keith . They have a Publick Stock , I have not ; they are able to raise some Thousands of Pounds sooner than G. Keith can raise an Hundred . [ Here some Noise being raised in the Meeting by some discontented persons . ] Auditors . Let there be a Moderator chosen . G. Keith . If there be any Offence , do not charge it on me . I desire you for the Honour of the Nation , and of the City of London , to be still . It is a Mob from Grace-church-street to make a disturbance . Then that passage in G. Whiteheads book was read again . See here the Son of God , his Eternal Generation is denyed . If he had a Father , then there are two Gods. And here is as plain a denying Christ to be God , as any Socinian can be guilty of . Quaker . Nat. Mark. The casual dropping of words is no proof . G. Keith . I have proved to you already he disowns Christ to be God. Now I will prove he has denyed him to be Man : And then there is that great Article of our Faith lost , and the Object of the Christian Faith denyed . Here is G. Whiteheads Answer to T. Dansons Synopsis of Quakerism , as he calls it , p. 18. This is in the book called , The Divinity of Christ asserted , ( recommended by W. Penn , Reason against Railing , p. 185. ) See how G. Whitehead takes him up , and how he banters him : If the Body and Soul of the Son of God were both created , doth not this render him a Fourth Person , &c. But the stress I lay is in the words following ; But herein whether doth not his and their ignorance of the only begotten of the Father plainly appear : Where doth the Scripture say , that his Soul was created ? For was not he the brightness of the Fathers glory , and the express Image of his Divine Substance ? But supposing the Soul of Christ was ( with the Body ) created in time , &c. Here ye see , he will not own that Christ had a Created Soul. Th. Danson , being a Presbyterian Minister did plead , That Christ as Man had a created Soul. This G. W. makes an inconsistency , as if he could not be God also . This was the Errour of Apollinarius , who said , Christ was without a Humane Soul , for he was the express Image of his Father . But supposing the Soul of Christ were created with the Body , &c. That which I would have you take notice of , is this , Where does the Scripture say his Soul was created ? Quaker . Waite . That was only a Question . G. Keith . Well , it was his way of Disputing , as is ordinary to him , and many others . An● such way of Questioning plainly imperteth a Denyal . Next I prove , that G. Whitehead says ▪ He has not the Body of a Man. And then I hope I shall have performed what I promised . See his Nature of Christianity , p. 29 , 41. Here I undertake to prove , that G. Whitehead denies that Christ in Heaven has any Bodily Existence without us . It he has said otherwise in any of his late Printed Books , I am glad of it . But let him retract these , for these have done much mischief . Now when I said he was Orthodox , I mean not as he was Heterodox : For there is a G. Whitehead Orthodox , and a G. Whitehead not Orthodox : I did not know G. Whitehead not Orthodox till lately . I do not say there are two persons in George Whitehead ; he is but one and the same person , ( in this and some other things ) Orthodox and not Orthodox , George Whitehead contradicting George Whitehead ; he is accountable for these Contradictions and not I. I own it , that I have cited divers passages out of his later books that are Orthodox to prove him sound ; but I did not then know , when I so cited him , that he was guilty of such gross Errors , as since I have found by a further search into his books . Let him retract his Errors , and well enjoy his Orthodoxy . Ye know contradictory Propositions cannot be both true . I shall read to you , p. 29 , 41. of his Nature of Christianity . ( This is posteriour to his former book ) . In Page 29. Or dost thou look for Christ , as the Son of Mary , to appear outwardly in a Bodily Existence to save thee , according to thy words , page 30. If thou dost , thou mayst look until thy E●es drop out , before thou wilt see such an appearance of him . This is but one place , that is , that Christ will not so appear . But why will he not so appear , but because he has no Bodily Existence without us . That I come now to prove ; for which I shall read to you in his pag. 41. And that he existeth outwardly , bodily , without us at God's right Hand : What Scripture Proof hath he for these Words ? And then what and where is God's right Hand ? Is it visibl● or invisible ? within us , or without us only ? And is Christ the Saviour , as an outward bodily Existence or Person without us , distinct from God , and on that Consideration to be worshipped as God , yea or nay ? And where doth the Scripture say he is outwardly and bodily glorified at God's right Hand ? Do these Days express the Glory that he had with the Father before the World began , in which he is now glorified ? And where doth the Scripture say ? And here is the thing that rivets . Where doth the Scripture say , that he is outwardly and bodily glorified at God's right Hand ? Do these Terms express the Glory that he had with the Father before the World began ? Now G. Whitehead's way of writing , is to question his Adversaries , which is the Socratical way of disputing and arguing against his Adversary . But let me go on . Again , see his Book called , Christ ascended above the Clouds . All that I have yet cited out of G. Whitehead's Book , Light and Life , and that of the Divinity of Christ , and Nature of Christianity , W. Penn has own'd them all in his Reasons against Railing , pag. 185 , 186. This Book was printed , ( and also this called Christ ascended above the Clouds ) Anno 1669. Now for the Page and Matter , p. 21 , 22. John Newman his Opponent's Words were from Rev. 1.7 . Those that pierced him in his Body of Flesh , shall see that Body visibly come again . G. W. answereth , These are not the Words of Scripture , but added , Altho to add or diminish be forbidden under a Penalty , Rev. 22.18 , 19. yet this Man's Presumption leads him to incur that ; — And Christ in the Days of his Flesh ( when he visibly appeared to the World ) said , Yet a little while and the World seeth me no more . Now again I shall read to you John Newman's Words which G. W. doth so much blame : From Rev. 1.7 . Those that pierced him in his Body of Flesh , shall see that Body visibly come again . Is there any thing here offensive ? Nothing but what is the declared Opinion of the Church of Rome , the Church of England , the Presbyterians , Independents , Baptists , and mine , all along , tho I have been a Quaker near about 34 Years . Quaker . Then it is much that in 34 Years thou shouldst not correct them before . G. Keith . This Assertion that G. Whitehead charges with Heresy , see how he answers it ; These are not the Words of Scripture , but added , altho to add or diminish be forbidden under a Penalty . Why , John Newman here only uses the word Body to his coming again , and G. Whitehead finds fault with that ; and G. W. brings a Proof from John 14.19 . Yet a little while and the World seeth me no more : that those that pierced Christ in his Body shall not see that Body visibly come again . Here is a Proof that Christ was evanished : The World shall see me no more . The Translation will not prove G. Whitehead's Position even as it is . But it may be better translated as yet , Yet a little while and the World shall not see me : As yet , the Greek being 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is not , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 yet , i. e. nondum , or not as yet . Does this prove that Christ has no Body at all ? This is very bad Reasoning . Quaker . If the Translation be not good , why do you make use of it ? † G. Keith . I own it a good Translation , and Thanks be to God we have such a Translation ; ●et that in some Places it may be better translated , the Quakers themselves , as well as all 〈◊〉 Professions , do acknowledg , ( such as have a little Hebrew or Greek ) that is one 〈◊〉 there are two or three Places more . I will give you only a few of my Proofs , and 〈◊〉 rest to a further Opportunity . P. 24. says J. Newman , By denying any perso● 〈◊〉 ●●ing of Christ , without all Men , at the right Hand of God , but only a feigned 〈◊〉 within , then Remission of Sins must die , and Faith also , for want of the Object 〈◊〉 . This I look on to be good Doctrine . And if you deny that , ( G. K. turning 〈◊〉 to his Opponents , Henry Goldney and Nathaniel Marke , who spoke by turns , sometimes one , and sometimes another , and stood close by him in the Gallery , a Favour his Adversaries would scarce have allowed to him , in any such Dispute , at Grace-Church-street - Meeting-place , or elsewhere ) ye may speak ; to which they not replying , G. K. further said , I think this is a good Deduction . Now to this G. Whitehead answers , p. 29. ( I defend not J. Newman in all he owns , but so far as he holds the Truth : And if a Papist say the Truth against a Jew , I am ingaged to defend him in it ) This manner of excluding God's right Hand and Christ to a Limitation out of his People in a personal Being , which are no Scripture-terms , still implies him to be a personal God or Christ , like the Anthropomorphites and Muggletonians Conceits of him . And again , pag. 69. he saith : And these Words , Christ in Person remote in his Body of Flesh , &c. and not in any Man , are not Scripture , but added . What strange Conceits would J. N. put upon the unlimited God , like the old heretical Monks of Egypt , called Anthropomorphites . By these Words of G. W. all Papists , Church of England-men , Presbyterians , Independents , Baptists , who believe that the Man Christ has any bodily Existence in Heaven , as he thinks , are Anthropomorphites and Muggletonians . So you see all of you are Muggletonians as well as I. But mark the Words of John Newman above-mentioned , which are sound ; and I say , whoever under a Christian Profession deny Christ to have any personal or bodily Existence without us in Heaven , whatever Notion they may have of Christ within , it is but a feigned Christ within ; but who have the true Knowledg and Faith of Christ within , to wit , of his Spirit , Light and Grace within , that leads them to own and confess to the Man Christ without , as well as to his Spirit within . There is no Church-of - England-man , Presbyterian or Baptist , &c. that holds that Notion , that the Godhead has the Shape of a Man ; but the Manhood of Christ has the true Nature of Man. And what Shape Christ's Body has now , that I leave , but I believe he has the self-same Body in Heaven that he had on Earth ; the same I say for Substance and Essence of Body , tho wonderfully changed in Manner and Condition . Another Quaker . Then you reflect on an Act of Parliament which allows the Translation of the Scriptures , if they be not truly translated , [ Note , This Man's Impertinency and Prejudice , as if to say a Place of Scripture may be better translated , which all the Learned of all Professions of English Protestants do allow , were a Reflection on the Parliament : how earnest is this Man with other of his Brethren , to make the Innocent an Offender ? Is this your Christianity ? ] G. Keith . Here is a Book of G. Whitehead's , called , The He-goats Horn broken . I hope this Meeting will give Satisfaction to many ; and therefore that it may be profitable , I desire you to keep Silence . Quaker N. Mark. I have a Proposition to make . I would not interrupt , but I desire to be heard , if I may have leave . G. Keith . Will you ( speaking to them all four that spoke sometimes one and sometimes another ) take upon you to vindicate your Friends ? then you may say what you will. Quaker . George , I desire thy Leave to be heard . G. Keith . If you will but speak briefly . Quaker N. Mark. The Proposition is this : 1. I tell you I am here accidentally . 2. I observe that G. Keith takes the Liberty of putting his own Interpretation on the Passages of several Books ; and since G. K. has departed from the Quakers , he has taken on him to write several Books , which are extant ; and over and over he makes his Appeal to this Assembly ; which I desire you to consider how improper and impracticable it is to decide it here . Therefore what he purposed to urge here , if he will print it , and proceed no further in this Meeting , I will be at the Charge of whatever he shall print . G. Keith . I say , If he would lay me down five hundred Pounds , I would not break up this Meeting till it is over . Stranger . He will pay for it , i. e. N. Marks . G. Keith . But it is upon Terms . Quaker , Began to speak , [ thus they oft sought to interrupt him to divert the Proofs . ] G. Keith . Thou knowest thou art not so qualified to speak in this Auditory . Let me go on with my Proofs . I prove further , that G. Whitehead writing against one Jo. Horn , reflects on him scornfully , he calls his Book the He-goats Horn broken . Now see whether G. Whitehead has not broken his own Horn rather . It is a Shame , the Reflections they have made on Men sounder than themselves . Let me read the Words ; The He-goats Horn broken , or Innocency , &c. in answer to two Books against the Quakers , Printed , London , 1660. Now if I understand any thing of true Divinity or Theology , the Passage this Man or Men ( for there are two of them ) lays down here , is a sound Passage , which G. Whitehead contradicts . Now here is the Passage , and do you judg of it . And where we lay down this as Tho. Moor's Principle , That their Nature is restored in Christ , and that their Nature is a filthy Nature . This they say is falsly expressed and perverted , and yet J. H. and T. M. a little after say thus , viz. That our Nature , Kind or Being , as in us , not in Christ , is corrupt and filthy in it self ; yet Christ took upon him our Nature , not as it is filthy in us by Sin in it . And they say , That we might as well have taxed the Apostle of Confusion , for saying , Men by Nature do the things contained in the Law ; p. 11 , 12. Now here is G. Whitehead's Answer , We may justly tax these Men for Confusion indeed , but not the Apostle ; for here they cannot discern between the sinful Nature and the pure Nature , for the Nature of Christ is pure ; so that it 's not their Nature , for their Nature is filthy , and therefore it is not in Christ . Observe , Christ did not take upon him Jo. Horn's Nature . No , says he . As I have oft told G. Whitehead , that he and W. Penn will needs imbrace false Notions in Philosophy , they will needs seem to be Philosophers by Divine Inspiration , as well as Ministers and Preachers by it . But it is a sad thing , that their false Philosophy should destroy their Faith. Now here is a false Notion , that Christ could not take on him Man's Nature , except he took on him the Pollution of it . As if the Pollution of Sin were an essential Attribute of Man's Nature . Now Sin , if it be like Scarlet , is no more essential to the Nature of Man , than Filth to a Garment : for a Garment is the same Garment still , whether it be filthy or clean . Therefore I say , our blessed Lord might well take on him our Nature , and the Nature in us be sinful , and in him pure and holy . And Jo. Horn distinguishes so . Now judg ye whether G. Whitehead has broken Jo. Horn's Horn , yea or no ; or rather whether has he not broken his own Horn ? Thus I have done as to the Object of Faith , at present at least . Now I come to the Act of Faith , or the Vertue of Faith. See for the Proofs , William Penn his Quakerism , a new Nick-name for old Christianity , p. 12. Printed Anno 1672. This Book is without the Printer's Name , and most of W. Penn's Books are without it , tho they persecuted William Bradford in Philadelphia for printing some of my Books without putting his Name . Here is the Point , Jo. Faldo makes this Charge against the Quakers , p. 12. Christianity was introduced by preaching the promised Messiah , and pointing at his humane Person , but Quakerism by preaching a Light within . Now if I had this to answer , I would have said , Any Quakerism I know of , that I learned , was introduced into my Heart both by believing in Christ without , and in Christ within , ( at once , and by one Faith ) but instead of that he answers thus : I answer , That this is nothing injurious to the Quakers at all , but highly on their side , for had they preach'd a Christ now coming in the Flesh , they had dented his true and only great visible Appearance at Jerusalem , which all true Quak●rs own . Since t●en they believe that Appearance , but therefore need not preach wh●t is not to be again : And that the whole Christian World besides have so long a●d lazily depended on it , without their thirsting after his inward holy Appearance in the Conscience , &c. This is the thing I come to ; Since then they believe that Appearance , but therefore need not preach what is not to be again ; if every one of them believe there was such a Man that was born of a Virgin , and died for our Sins sixteen hundred Years ago , they therefore need not preach that he was so born , or that he died for our Sins , &c. Christ is not to be born again , is not to die again , &c. We need not preach it , but throw it over the Shoulder , and give it up and bury it in Oblivion from Posterity . Judg if this ●e not the true Consequence . Let them retract these Errors , and not say I am an Apostate for telling them of them : As I told G. Whitehead , there are Errors in thy Books as well as others , and either thou or I must correct them , and he was very angry with me . L●t them retract them , and not count me a Liar for telling them of them . But let me again r●ad out the entire Paragraph . Since then they believe that Appearance , but therefore need not preach what is not to be again . There it clinches , they need not preach what is not to be again * . Take notice also of his uncharitable dealing here ; if he had said many , it might have past . But he says the whole Christian World has lazily depended on it . Is there none in the Christian World but the Quakers , that thirst after the Power of God in their Souls ? I was never so uncharitable to think so . There is more yet , p. 6. The Distinction between Moral and Christian . The making holy Life legal , ( I know none that do so of any that are sincere in all the Professions in Christendon ) and Fa●th in the History of Christ's outward Manifestation , has been a deadly Poison these latter Ages have been infected with , to the Destruction of God●y Living , and apostatizing of those Churches , &c. Another Proof I bring against W. Penn is out of his Address to Protestants , p. 119. printed 1692. the second Edition corrected and enlarged : But this Passage remains in it however . I will begin a little before the main thing : For it seems , p. 118. a most unreasonable thing , that Faith in God , and in keeping his Commands should be no part of the Christian Religion : But if a part it be , as upon serious Reflection who dare deny it , then those before ●nd since Christ's time who never had the external Law , and have done the things contained in the Law , their Consciences not accusing , nor Hearts condemning , but excusing them before God , are in some degree concerned in the Character of a true Christian ; for Christ himself preached and kept his Father's Commandments , and came to fulfil and not destroy the Law , and that not only in his own Person , but that the Righteousness of the Law might also be fulfilled in us . Now comes the main thing . Let us but soberly consider what Christ is , and we shall the better know , whether Moral Men are to be reckon'd Christians . What is Christ but Meekness , Justice , Mercy , Patience Charity , and Vertue in Perfection ? Can we then deny a meek Man to be a Christian , a just , a merciful , a patient , a charitable and vertuous Man to be like Christ ? But in this way of arguing there is a Fallacy ; these Moral Vertues are a Part of a Christian , as Animal is a part of the Definition of a Man , and belong to the Genus of a Christian . But there are two things in the true Definition of a Man , the Genus and the Differentia : they have the Genus , but not the Differentia ; therefore it is true to say , every Man is an Animal ; but it is not true nor good Logick to say , every Animal is a Man. Let us but soberly consider ( saith William Penn ) what Christ is , what is Christ but Meekness , and Justice , and Mercy , and Patience ? And now take notice , ( I would not misconstrue what I have read ) by William Penn's Argument , a Man may be own'd to be a Christian , and yet disbelieve that Christ is either God or Man ; if he own or practise a Habit or Quality of Moral Vertue , as that of Justice , and Meekness , &c. and practise accordingly , tho he believe not in Christ , if he have but some Moral Habits : So that here the Jew is the Christian , the Mahometan is the Christian , the Pagan is the Christian , and the professed Pelagian is the Christian , tho they deny any inward supernatural Principle , and call the Light within only natural , as many sober and moral Men do ; why then have they so fiercely contended against such Men , denying them to be Christians , in whom as much of Mora●ity has appeared as in many of t●em ? But it is strange to heathenise all Christendom through , calling them the World , and christianise Heathens for their Morality . See again the Christian Quaker , p. 125 , 126 , 127. let me but recommend it to you to read the Book . This Christian Quaker it is a Folio Book , he bestows about three Pages to define what a Christian Quaker is . In all this large De●●nition , not one word of the Man Christ ( who is God over all blessed for ever ) to be the Object , either of this Christian Quaker's Faith , Love or Homage : it is too large to reci●e , but I recommend it to you to read it , and shall go to the next . Again , see the Preface to R. Barclay's great Volume , p. 36. where he makes the Work of Regeneration greater than the Manifestation of the Son of God in the Flesh . R. Barclay is my Country-man , I will not be partial to him on that account ; but I do not now blame any thing in his Book , I know he is the soundest Writer among them . But the thing I blame , is a Preface supposed to be writ by W. Penn , and , however , commended by G. Whitehead and some others : By the Stile it is thought to be W. Penn's , and it commonly goes under his Name . These are the Words : O Reader ! great is the Mystery of Godliness ! And if the Apostle said it of the Manifestation of the Son of God in t●e Flesh , if that be a Mystery , ( and if a Mystery , it is not to be spelt out but by the Revelation of the Spirit ) how much more is the Work of Regeneration a Mystery , that is wholly inward and spiritual in its Operation ? Who is sufficient for these things ? Now pray take notice , that I tell you , I cast no Reflection on R. Barclay , I blame nothing at present in his Books , tho there may be things both in his Books and mine that may need Correction . If there be any Reflection on him , it is chiefly this , that such an unsound Preface should be put to his Book , for I can sufficiently prove , that R. Barclay's Doctrine is plainly Antipodes to this Doctrine * . O Reader , great is the Mystery of Godliness ; for which is cited 1 Tim. 3.16 . Great is the M●stery of Godliness , God manifest in the Flesh , &c. which all Christendom judg to be God manifest in Christ's outward Body of Flesh , and but consequentially of his Spirit and Grace in Men and I think it 's the greatest Mystery next to that of the Holy Three in One , and One in Three ; the Manifestation of the Son of God in that Body of Flesh is next to that . Now you see how he makes Regeneration in a Believer a greater Mystery than the Manifestation of the Son of God in his Body of Flesh ; How much more , saith he , is the Work of Regeneration a Mystery ? For the other here , 1 Tim. 3. ●6 . he does not say it is a Mystery , but he puts three ifs to it , If a M●stery , &c. Pray was our blessed Lord a mere Shell ? Was he like the Shell of an Egg without the Meat of an Egg ? or was he like the Shell of any Fruit , and no Kernel in it ? Was there any Holiness ever in any Prophet or Apostle , but it is like a Drop to the Ocean to what was in ●ur blessed Lord ? Therefore to compare the Work of Regeneration to the Incarnation of our Lord , so as to equal it , ( he prefers it , and does not equal it only ) I appeal to you , whether is it not a most abominable Error , and whether it doth not make every regenerate Man not only equal to the Man Christ , but greater ; for we truly value any Man as more holy , according as the Manifestation of God is more in one Man than in another . It is not enough , to say , he has unadvisedly dropt this Doctrine , but it is his main Aim in divers of his Books : See W. Penn's Rejoinder , p. 330 , 337 , 340. where he makes Christ in the Gentiles a greater Mystery than Christ incarnate , p. 335. J. Faldo is now in his Grave ; and I confess I never thought I should be raised up to vindicate J. Faldo . I cannot say I ever read the fourth Part of this Book of W. Penn's called his Rejoinder , till within this two Twelve months . But if J. Faldo speak Truth against my Father , I must defend him against my Father . Hear what J. Faldo says , p. 100 , 101. For Christ to be in the Gentiles , rightly understood , would be no hard Matter for the Gentiles to believe , as to believe such a Glory to be attain'd by Faith in , and Obedience to the Laws of a Man , who died as a Malefactor , and that this Death of his should reconcile God to Man , with the Addition of such a Purchase To this W. Penn answereth , This sort of Doctrine will becometh John Faldo , I perceive I have not mistaken him . What Carnalist in the World could have let drop a more perricious Sentence to the Doctrine and Kingdom of Christ , than to render it more difficult to believe , and lay a greater stress upon the external than the internal Work of Christ ? we must read the most weighty Scriptures backwards upon this Man's Principles , he hath helped us to a new way of rendring the Text ; not this Mystery among the Gentiles is Christ in you the Hope of Glory , but this Mystery among the G●n●il●s is a Man who died as a Malefactor , by his Death reconciled to God , &c. Behold your Expositor ! I dare warrant this Man's Comment will never trouble the next Collection of Criticks . At this rate the Lord , Lord Criar is highly privileged , and the Galatians had passed the most difficult Birth before they had known Christ to be formed in them . Regeneration is a slight thing in comparison of the Knowledg of Christ after the Flesh . This Doctrine brings not Men to Christ in them the Hope of Glory , but inticeth them into the vain Hope of the Hypocrisy which perisheth : the History is made the greatest Mystery ; and to believe the one , matter of greater Difficulty than to experience the other . — 'T is strange that should be reputed most mysterious which was the Introduction to the Mystery , and those Transactions counted most difficult that were by the Divine Wisdom of God ordained as so many facile Representations of what was to be accomplished in Man. In short , it is to lessen if not totally to exclude the true Mystery of Godliness which is Christ manifested in his Children , their Hope of Glory . We had wont to say , All other Professions denied Christ within but here J. Faldo owns Christ to be in the Gentiles rightly understood . But to me Christ crucified , in whom the Fulness dwell th , is a greater Mystery , and a greater Matter to be believed . I can shew many of the Philosophers that owned the Light within , under the Denomination of the Word , Light , Spirit , &c. yet it was so hard for them to believe that a Man that was crucified as a Malefactor should die for their Sins . Yea Julian the Apostate , and Porphirius , professed and owned a Divine Principle within , [ as generally the Platonist Philosophers did , and Aristotle also ] but Christ crucified they could not away with . And now it is a Stumbling-block to these Quakers . This sort of Doctrine well becomes J. Faldo . See how he hanters him . W. Penn thinks it is a Matter of little or no Difficulty to believe God sent Christ to die for Sinners , and to reconcile God to Men by his Death . But Christ told the Jews , This is the Work of God , John 6.29 . that ye believe on him whom he hath sent And surely that was the Man Christ Jesus . And he said also , No Man can come unto me , ex●ept the Father which hath sent me draw him , John 6.44 . And every one that has heard and learned ●f the Father comes to me , ver . 45. Now to come to him is the same as to believe in him with a true saving Faith. So that it is plain , he teaches the Jews that they cannot believe in Christ ( that appear●d outwardly among them ) whom God has sent , but as they are taught of God and drawn of him . And yet W. Penn makes it inseriour to Reg●neration , as you may see by his Words : [ Whereas true saving Faith in Christ crucified , who died as a Malefactor , to reconcile us to God , is a great and principal Part of Regeneration , and is as great a Work of God , as to make us believe Christ's inward Appearance in us ] . But says William Penn , " Behold your Expositor ! I dare warrant this Man's Comment will never trouble the next " Collection of Criticks , &c. A rare way to refute him , to banter him at this rate . Now I will give you my Sense . I do not reckon J. Faldo was so ignorant a Man , that he believed a Man could be a Christian only with a traditional Knowledg or Faith of Christ without him . But tho Regeneration is no slight thing , yet I say , comparing Christ's Incarnation , that is a Complex of Mysteries , ( a certain Writer ‖ shews a Complex of twenty and more Mysteries in that one Mystery of Christ's Incarnation ) I say , comparing that with the Work of Regeneration , I do affirm the Work of Regeneration is a light thing , tho not light in it self . Therefore this of W. Penn is but a mere Banter . There is none of all the Church-of - England-men , or Independents , or Presbyterians , say the mere historical , literal , traditional Faith of Christ will save any . But the Matter is , there is a saving Faith of Christ without us ; and Christ without us as he is both God and Man , the Emanuel , as well as his inward Appearance in us , is the Object of saving Faith ; but these Men would not own it . I desire you well to mark and consider the several Passages in this whole Paragraph of William Penn's Rejoinder , what gross and absurd things it contains . He saith , This Doctrine brings not Men to Christ in them the Hope of Glory , but inticeth them into the vain Hope of the Hypocrite which perisheth . Yea see how he makes it the vain Hope of the Hypocrite to believe that Christ without is a greater Mystery than Christ within ; that 's History , this is Mystery , according to him . Now I have some other principal Proofs yet remaining about this gross Error of W. Penn. I shall read to you in his Christian Quaker , a Passage , p 97 , 98. printed Anno 1674. but the Printer's Name is not to it . To conclude , as Abraham outward and natural , was the great Father of the Jews , whose Seed God promised to bless with Earthly Blessings , as Canaan , &c. and that they were figurative of the one Seed Christ , and such as he should beget unto a lively Hope through the Power of his Spiritual Resurrection ; it will consequently follow , that this Seed must be inward and spiritual , since one outward thing cannot be the proper Figure or Representation of another , nor is it the way of holy Scripture so to teach us . The outward Lamb shews forth the inward Lamb ; the Jew outward , the Jew inward . As God attended the one with many singu●ar outward Mercies ( to say no more ) above other Nations ; so the Jew in Spirit doth he benefit above all other People . I have these two short Arguments to prove what I believe and assert as to the Spirituality of the true Seed , and a clearer Overthrow it is to the Opinion of our Adversaries to the true Christ . First , Every thing begets its like ; what is simply natural produces not a spiritual Being ; material things bring not forth things that are immaterial . Now because the Nature , or Image begotten in the Hearts of true Believers , is spiritual , it will follow , if the Seed which so begets , and brings forth that Birth , must be the same in nature with that which is begotten , therefore spiritual ; then Christ's Body , or what he had from the Virgin , strictly considered as such , was not the Seed . Secondly , It is clear from hence , the Serpent is a Spirit : Now nothing can bruise the Head of the Serpent , but something that is so internal and spiritual as the Serpent is . But if that Body of Christ were the Seed , then could he not bruise the Serpent's Head in all , because the Body of Christ is not so much as in any one , and consequently the Seed of the Promise is an holy and spiritual Principle of Light , Life and Power , that being received into the Heart , bruiseth the Serpent's Head : And because the Seed , which cannot be that Body , is Christ , as testify the Scriptures , the Seed is one , and that Seed Christ , and Christ God over all , blessed for ever . We do conclude , and that most truly , that Christ was and is the Divine Word of Light and Life , that was in the Beginning with God , and was and is God over all , blessed for ever . W. Penn will needs have this to be not Christ without but Christ within . And you see his Arguments . So the Paschal Lamb was no Figure of Christ without . And when John said , Behold the Lamb of God! it was meant of Christ within us , not of Christ without us , for our Passover is slain for us . You see , according to W. Penn , that Passover that was slain for us , was slain in us , not without us : And so they throw away our Arguments against the Jews : the Jews may plead the Messiah is not yet come . [ The Light within is owned by the Jews , and their Rabbies speak highly of it , yea , they call it a Ray or Beam of the Heavenly Adam ; and by way of Allegory , his Flesh and Blood , as I can plainly prove out of their Writings . And if the Types and Prophecies of the Old Testament mean only the Light within , by the one Seed that was promised , and held forth under these Types , how shall we convince them that the Messiah is come ? and that because he is come , these Types , Figures and Shadows of the Law are abolished . ] W. Penn saith , Then Christ's Body he had from the Virgin , strictly considered as such , was not the Seed . This is rare Logick . Here is a Fallacy , but I believe it proceeds not from any Design , but from his Weakness in Logick . You know there should be no Term nor Thing of Importance in the Conclusion of any Syllogism or Argument , but what should be in the Premises ; but strictly considered is not in the Premises , therefore it should not be in the Conclusion . No Man says , the Body of Christ strictly considered without the Soul of Christ is Christ , or that either the Soul and Body of Christ strictly considered , without the Godhead , is the Christ . Therefore he fights against a Man of Straw . But the Sense of his Argument is , that his B●dy was no Part of him . The one Seed cannot be an outward thing , this ye see is universal and exclusive of any outward thing ; for says W. Penn , one outward Thing cannot be the proper Figure or Representation of another . — Again , Nothing ( saith he ) can bruise the Head of the Serpent but something that is also internal and spiritual , ‖ as the Serpent is . And whereas W. Penn saith , The Body of Christ is not so much as in any one ; this contradicts his Brother John Whitehead , that says , He denieth that Christ hath a Body out of every Man on Earth . Here is their Contradiction , and yet they both pretend to be infallible . But see what a Sorites is here , saith W. Penn : The Seed is one , and that Seed Christ , and Christ God over all , blessed for ever . We do conclude , and that most truly , that Christ was and is the divine Word of Light and Life that was in the Beginning with God , and was and is God over all , blessed for ever . Thus you see he makes the promised Seed to be nothing but an inward Principle , God over all , &c. But I think it is not true , to say , The Seed of God in Men is God ; I judg it is unsound Doctrine , and contradicts R. B. who calleth that inward Seed , Vehiculum Dei , the Vehicle of God. But to say , Christ is only God , and not Man without us , as W. Penn's way of arguing imports , is most false Doctrine , and is as great and dangerous an Extream as to say , Christ is only Man and not God. But the true Christian Doctrine is , that Christ is both God and Man , and yet one Christ . I have done at present with my first Head. Quaker N. M. Then you will admit of a short Appeal . I appeal to the Persons here met , presuming upon their Generosity and Temper , how unfair it is for him to make his Illustrations and Aggravations of these Matters , and to how great Difficulty he exposes those Persons he treats of . I think what he says to you is inconsistent with Christian Principles , should be read by another Person : for many things are explanatory of one another , &c. Qua. Henry Goldney also blamed his reading , that what made against him he read low , but what he thought made for him he read high . G. Keith . If any of you scruple my reading , if you desire it , another shall read : Only there is this Inconvenience , I have not the Places so well marked on the Margin that another can so readily find them as my self . But if I wrong the Quotations , it will appear in Print , for we intend that the Quotations shall be printed . Stranger . Let him overlook you , if he thinks you do not read right . Quaker N. M. I think he does not read false . G. Keith . The second Head is Justification and Sanctification by the Blood of Christ outwardly shed , which is opposed by William Penn , G. Whitehead , and others . For this I shall bring my Proofs . Reason against Railing , by W. Penn , pag. 91. And forgive us our D●bts , as we forgive our Debtors . Says W. Penn , Where nothing can be more obvious , than that which is forgiven , is not paid ; and if it is our Duty to forgive without a Satisfaction received , and that God is to forgive us , as we forgive them , then is a Satisfaction Totally excluded . I confess I was surprized with this word , Totally excluded . Satisfaction is not the strict Solution of a Debt in all Respects and Circumstance . When we consider the Dignity of our Lord , that was both God and Man ; his Sufferings , ( suppose they were not the Thousand Part of what the Damned suffer ) yet it was a true Satisfaction : Therefore I was scandalized with these words . An Hundred Years ago the Church of England has very well answered this fallacious Argument of W. Penn's , that is , the same with the Socinians , in her Homily on Salvation , the First Part. And here he gives Nine Arguments to prove that the Notion of Christ's Satisfaction for Sin brings with it Nine irrational Consequences and Irreligious : But they are so weak and insignificant , that it were but loss of time , to mention them here , or answer them . Only give me leave to add , These very Persons , G. Whitehead and W. Penn , after they have thrust out of Doors by their false Logick , Christ's Satisfaction without us ; they own that Christ in us (a) offereth up himself a Sacrifice , to appease the wrath of God. Now , if free forgiveness exclude the Satisfaction of Christ without us , by W. Penn's Argument , by the same it does as much exclude his Satisfaction within us ; pray mark that . Now you have heard a Proof from W. Penn , let me come to Geo. Whitehead again . You shall have here a rare Dish of Divinity , not that I would provoke any to Lightness . But I have read many Books in my time , but I never read such a Book ( except the Ranters ) in my Life ; Popery is Orthodoxy to it . No Popish Priest will Argue as he has done , G. Whitehead's Light and Life , pag. 8. He blames here W. Burnet , for saying , The Blood shed upon the Cross sprinkles the Conscience , Sanctifies , Justifies , Redeems us . Now here is G. Whitehead's Censure of him . Observe here a two-fold stress is laid upon that Blood ; 1. Merit , to Salvation ; 2. Work , to Sanctification : And so he hath set it up above God , for God could not save , he saith . Observ . To say , That Christ's Blood merits Salvation , is to set it up above God ; for God could not save , he saith . Now , he wrongs W. Burnet : I know not the Man , his words are these , which some where or other I have noted . W. Burnet says , Christ as God , without being Man , he could not save . (b) But I wholly wave that Dispute ; I think it is above man's Capacity , whether Antecedently to God's purpose , he could have saved us without the Death of his own dear Son. But God having so ordained it , consequentially to his purpose , it may be as safely and truly said , as when the Scripture saith , God cannot lye . Is it any Reflection to say , God cannot lye , and that he cannot contradict his purpose ? And the Scripture says , God has not appointed us to wrath , but to obtain Salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ ; I hope then he cannot save us without the Man Christ , because he has said , he will not ; and the Man Christ is a Joynt-Saviour with God the Father . Again , pag. 38. G. W. brings the words of W. Burnet thus . Bapt. Now the Quakers would be so far from directing Men to go to the Material Temple at Jerusalem , that they make it but a vain thing to look to Jerusalem , to the Antitype of that Temple , viz. to Jesus Christ , as he was there crucified ; or to that Blood , that was there shed for Justification , p. 24. Now see the Answer , The Quakers see no need of directing Men to the Type for the Antitype , neither to the outward Temple , nor yet to Jerusalem , either to Jesus Christ , or his Blood , knowing that neither the Righteousness of Faith , nor the word of it doth so direct , Rom. 10. And is it the Baptists Doctrine to direct Men to the Material Temple , and Jerusalem , the Type for the Antitype ? What (c) Nonsense and Darkness is this ? And where do the Scriptures say , the Blood was there shed for Justification , and that Men must be directed to Jerusalem to it ? It may be questioned whether there may not be some need to expound the Types , as directing to Christ , though not to pract●ce them . But let that pass . Now he says , it is contrary to Rom. 10. to direct People to Jesus Christ as he was crucified at Jerusalem . But let the Bible be Judge . He has not cited the Verse , but the Verses he aims at I shall read ; Ver. 5 , 6 , 7 , 8. For Moses describeth the Righteousness which is of the Law , that the man which doeth those things , shall live by them , &c. See Verses 6 , 7.8 . Now , in their Preachments they have used to stop there , and go no further . But read the 9th . Verse , If thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus , and shalt believe in thine heart , that God hath raised him from the dead , thou shalt be saved . And where was it that God raised Christ from the Dead ? Was it not at Jerusalem ? And there he died , where he rose . And Christ , when he took the Cup , said , Drink ye all of it , this is the New Testament in my Blood , shed for many for the remission of sins . And I believe he meant his Blood shed , was the outward Blood of his Body . Stranger . Read the words again . Which G. Keith did . G. Keith . You see G. Whitehead has falsified the Scriptures , and made them to say what they say not ; as if to direct to Jesus Christ as he was crucified at Jerusalem , and to his Blood that was there shed , were contrary to Rom. 10. whereas it is plainly according to Rom. 10. 9,10 . Quaker . It may be , something following may explain it ; read on . Which G. Keith did . Light and Life , pag. 39. ( Whereas that Blood shed is not in being pag. 40 ) But the true Apostle directed them to the Light ( which is so much opposed by the Baptists ) to walk in the Light , for the Blood of Jesus to cleanse them from all sin , 1 John 1. And he died for our sins , but rose again for our justification ; which Resurrection surely was after the shedding the blood outwardly . G. Keith . Neither W. Burnet , nor no Baptist , place the all and whole of our Justification on Christ's outward Sufferings , and shedding his blood . For I say with them , and all Christendom , That if Christ had died , and not risen again , he could not have been an Atonement for our sins : Therefore both his Death and Resurrection are concerned in our Justification . Give me leave to tell you one Passage . The. Ellwood thinks to put a trick on the Reader , and says , it is wrong Printed , and that it should have been for , instead of to ; and he charges some Typographical Errors in my Books on me . He says , it was corrected in his Copy with a Pen ; bu● he does not say , G. Whitehead mended it . He says , it should be thus read , Either for Jesus Chris● , or his Blood. He thinks that will so turn it , that it mends the matter , but it mends it nothing at all . And G. Whitehead has it , to , to , to , several times , ( See pag. 38 , 39. Where do the Scriptures say , saith G. W. ) the blood was there shed for Justification , and that Men must be directed to Jerusalem to it ? Again , in pag. 61. Light and Life , he saith , Another while People must seek their Saviour above the Clouds and Firmament , contrary to the Righteousness of Faith , Rom. 10.6 . Another while they must look to Jerusalem for Justification to the blood that was there shed , contrary to Deut. 30.13 , 14. and Rom. 10. Is not this abominab●e Perversion of Scripture , to confirm his Antichristian Doctrine ? Light and Life , pag. 61. What Confusion what a Labyrinth and Uncertainty is he in , and does he bring his Hearers into ( saith G. Whitehead of Will. Burnet ) because , according to Scripture , he asserts , that Men must be directed to Christ for Justification and Salvation , both as he suffered at Jerusalem , and as he rose again , and is ascended into Heaven , above the Clouds and Firmament . Next , you shall hear Solomon Eccles's Letter , That the blood of Christ is no more than the blood of another Saint . Quaker N. M. I beg a Favour . Here are several things urged as false Doctrine , which refer to several places of Scripture , which Scriptures ought also to be read . G. Keith . They have been read , except Deut. 30. Rom. 10. is a repetition of Deut. 30. This is only to prolong time , and hinder me to proceed in my Proofs . But if the Auditory please , I will read both Deut. 30. and Rom. 10. Auditory . There is no need , go on and read Solomon Eccles's Letter . G. Keith . Before I read the Letter , let me read these Lines , in G. Whitehead his Light and Life , pag. 8. W. B. ( saith he ) tells of looking to Jerusalem , to Jesus Christ , as he was there crucified , or to that blood that was there shed for Justification , Contradiction . That Christ , that restoreth man's loss , is both to be sought and found in Heaven , &c. but in contradiction to both , the Reception of the Spirit the only means , the gift of Christ to us , and his being revealed in us by his Spirit . Here you see G. Whitehead makes it a Contradiction , that we must look to Christ as he died at Jerusalem , and as he is now in Heaven . Judge ye if this be a Contradiction ; but in Contradiction to both , he saith , it is a Contradiction to direct to Christ our Saviour , as he died at Jerusalem ; and that Christ that saveth us , is revealed within us by his Spirit . Now the Letter , which G. Whitehead does own , it is a Letter of Solomon Eccles , it is this : Robert Porter . TAKE heed of belying the Innocent ; for I hear that thou hast reported to a Friend of mine , that I should say , That the Blood of Christ is no more than the Blood of another Man. I never spake it , but do very highly esteem of the Blood of Christ , to be more Excellent , and Living , and Holy , and Precious than is able to be uttered by the Tongues of Men and Angels : I mean the Blood which was offered up in the Eternal Spirit , Heb. 9.14 . But the Blood that was forced out of him by the Soldiers , after he was dead , who before that , bowed his Head to the Father , and gave up the Ghost ; but thou sayest , that was the Blood of the New-Covenant , which was shed after he was dead , which I do deny ; yet I did say , That was no more than the Blood of another Saint . These were my Words , which thou art wresting to thy own Destruction . And for the other Lye that thou chargest me withal , that I should say , That the Blood of Christ should fall to the Ground within a twelfth Month , it is false , and never was spoke by me : But I did say , That the Baptists , and Independants , and Presbyterians , and Pope , are all of one Ground , and none of you understand the Blood of Jesus Christ no more than a brute Beast ; therefore repent , for God will suddenly overthrow your Faith , and your imputative Righteousness too , for the Imputation of Christ's Righteousness which he did at Jerusalem , and without the Gates , the Pope , the Episcopal , the Presbyterian , Independants and Baptists , shall fare all alike , and shall sit down in Sorrow , short of the Eternal Rest : But the true imputative Righteousness of Christ we own ; but it is hid from you all , till the Lord do open an Eye within you . Stranger . Who Printed that Letter ? G. Keith . W. Burnet , the Baptist Preacher . Have you any Testimony of their owning that Letter ? T. Slaughter . I can answer to the Letter . G. Keith . It may be thou art the Man. T. Slaughter . I am not the Man , but I have had a Copy of the Letter . It was writ to one Porter at Whe●stone , and the Letter is true . Auditors . Pray , Sir , where do you live , and what is your Name ? T. Slaughter . My Name is Thomas Slaughter , I live at Darking , I have a Son that is a Tallow Chandler that lives in Bow-Lane , where you may have an Account of me . G. Keith . George Whitehead doth not question the Letter to be true , but defends it , and as much opposeth Justification by the outward or material Blood of Christ , as Solomon Eccles doth . Here is a weighty Passage , George Whitehead says in his Book , Light and Life , which T. Ellwood transcribes and vindicates , T. Ellwood represents G. Whitehead . And this is one of the Books , they say ( in their printed Paper they have sent and read at this Meeting ) I have not answered . And this is G. Whitehead in Effigie . I had charged G. Whitehead for saying , That Christ's material Blood , shed at Jerusalem , was but a Type of the Blood we were justified by . T. Ellwood finds fault with me for this . And you shall see T. Ellwood's Vindication , and how far G. VVhitehead has owned or disowned S. Eccles's Letter . All things under the Law , ( says VV. Burner ) in the Type , was purged with Blood , and this Blood was material Blood and not mystical ; and that Blood that Christ shed in order to the effecting the Salvation of Man , must needs be visible and material Blood. These are VV. Burnet's Words . Now G. VVhitehead says , Baptist . All things under the Law , in the Type was purged with Blood , and this Blood was material Blood , and not mystical , and that Blood that Christ shed , in order to the effecting the Salvation of Man , must needs be material and visible Blood. Answ. Do but mark here what sad Consequence he has drawn , as if one should Reason , that because the Type was material , visible , and not mystical , therefore the Antitype or Substance must needs be material , and not mystical . By this all Mysteries or Divine things are excluded from being either Spiritual , Antitype , or Substance ; whereas it was the Heavenly things themselves , that are in Christ , in which consists the Substance and End of Types and Shadows . But to say , that material Blood was a Type of that which was material , this is to give the Substance no Preheminence above the Type ( especially if neither of them be mystical nor in being ) or like as if one should say , one Type was a Type of another . Whereas both the Heavenly , and more perfect Tabernacle and Altar , with the Heavenly things , are all a Mystery , and Spiritual , the Offering and Living Sacrifices are Spiritual , the Passover Spiritual , the Seed Spiritual , the Bread , the Fruit of the Vine Spiritual , the Oyl , the Flesh , and the Blood , which give Life to the Soul , yea , the Water and Blood , which washeth and sprinkleth the Conscience , are all Spiritual and Mysterious , as the New Covenant it self is , which they belong to , and these things known in . And this is the new and living way , which Christ set open , through the Veil of his Flesh , Heb. 10. Let them receive this who can . Note , By G. Whitehead's Argument , as the New Covenant is Spiritual and inward , and not outward , so the Blood of the New Covenant is inward and not outward ; so the Passover is inward , which is Christ the Mediator , and not outward ; this is a plain denyal of the Man Christ without us to be our Mediator , our Passover , Offering , or his Flesh and Blood without us to be concerned in our Salvation otherwise than as the Type . That Christ's Flesh is called the Veil , is not to be understood like the Typical Veils , Figures , and Shadows , but hath a far greater and profound sense and consideration . But mark , W. Burnet does not express it universally , but in this particular Case : And G. Whitehead extends it to an Universal ; as if all the Types of the Old Testament signified nothing Internally and Spiritually . But VV. Burnet saith no such thing , though he justly contends that the material Blood of the Beasts that were offered , was a Type of the material Blood of Christ that was outwardly shed ; yet many of the Types signified the internal and spiritual Gifts and Graces that true Believers have by Christ . Now here I clinch the matter : G. Whitehead says , But to say material Blood was a Type of that which was material ; this is to give the Substance no preeminence above the Type ( especially if neither of them be mystical , nor in being ) or like as if one should say , one Type was a Type of another . Now the Argument lies here ; If the Sacriffces under the Law were Types of Christ's Blood then that Blood must not be outward Blood , but inward , to wit , the Light and Life in Men ; but this is a false Consequence of G. Whitehead , and sheweth , that he denieth Remission of Sin , and Justification by the Blood of Christ outwardly shed . And this whole Passage of G. Whitehead , his Advocate T. Ellwood doth defend in his Book called Truth Defended , which is one of the two they say I have not answered . Now as to the Letter , we go on to what T. Elwood says . He is so unfair , he will have it , that G. Whitehead owns , that the material B●ood of Christ is that by which we are justified . But here is the Trick , G. Whitehead makes a typical Offering of Christ , and an anti-typical ; the typical was the Offering of Christ at Jerusalem , the anti-typical is the Offering of Christ within . See here then their Answer : It was queried , whether they owned that we are by the Blood of Christ outwardly shed , justified ; or that the Blood that was outwardly shed , did belong to the Sacrifice ? G. Whitehead has since of late answered : Yea , here they have sought to blind all the World ; Christ , as he outwardly suffered was a Sacrifice , but a typical Sacrifice . Therefore the next Question to be put , must be , Whether he was the anti-typical Sacr●fice ? Now see what G. Whitehead hath said to the Letter of Solomon Eccles , to blame or censure it . I can find nothing at all . He does not own that Solomon Eccles's Expression was an Article of their Faith , but does he disown it ? Nay , a man may not own a thing to be an Article of his Faith , and yet not disown it . If G. Whitehead had had the true Faith in Christ crucified , and had the true Value of Christ's Blood , outwardly shed , he would have very severely and sharply blamed and censured Solomon Eccles's Letter as blasphemous , but I find not that he censured it all . He tells you in what Sence he owns it , viz. That Blood had a peculiar Significat●on ; I told him , so had the Blood of Beasts a peculiar Signification , for their Blood signified Remission of Sin , but was no satisfactory Offering for Sin : And if Christ's Blood outwardly shed was a Type , as G. Whitehead affirms it was , then he confirms Solomon Eccles's false Doctrine , and makes it no more than the Blood of the Beasts that were offered . But saith T. Ellwood , He does own that the Blood of Christ is more than the Blood of another Saint ; but what B●ood ? the Blood of Christ within , there is the Trick . Is not this enough to cheat all the World ? They have a double Meaning as (d) Arius had . They say they own the Blood of Christ , and every other thing said of him according to the Scripture ; so said the Arians and Macedonians , when at other times they discovered their Meaning to be quite contrary to Scripture . Quaker . N. M. I offer a Word in Vindication , which is this : I am here an accidental Man , as you are . What I would offer is this . 1. I acknowledge the Favour you give me leave to speak . Next , this little Tumult gives me Occasion to let you know that the principal Reason of the Persons not being here , that were challenged , was that Confusion and Disorder that would be the Consequence . G. Keith . Who makes it ? Quaker . N. M. There are not fifteen of us here , (e) therefore we take care not to be parties to it . The Persons challenged I do respect ; I know their own Ability , I think my self not capable to speak in their behalf . What I wou●d say , is to the Letter . The Letter you are to understand , is the Effect of a Dispute between two Persons . Though this Letter was writ by one that had Conversation with us , yet I think we are not intitled to what is in it . But if G. Whitehead hath writ in Vindication of it , it affects us as a People : And whatever we publish as a People , we are so far affected with it . But this Letter was writ by the Hand of a particular Man , whose Conversation among us I think not fit to answer for . G. Keith . He was an Eminent Preacher among them . Quaker . He says , G. Whitehead has vindicated this Letter ; now I observe G. Whitehead finds fault with the Letter . G. K●ith . Here he makes G. Whitehead the Representative and Metropolitan of the Quakers , saying , what G. W. writes , affects them as a People . I am a Quaker still , though I glory not in any Name , but that I may be accounted a true Christian . But he says , if G. Whitehead has justified the Letter , it is imputable to the Body . What is this , but to make G. Whitehead the Metropo●itan ? And I protest against it . I have so much Charity and Knowledge of many of the Quakers , that I believe there are Thousands will not own that Letter , though G. Whitehead does . He says , if G. Whitehead justifies that Lett●r , the whole Body is understood to justifie it . Now , I see not one Syllable wherein G. Whitehead blames it : And he that does not testifie against a thing , when he has just occasion for it , justifies it . But hear what G. Whitehead saith , pag. 58. Light and Life . Now , to these words , viz. No more than the Blood of another Saint , his intent was , saith G. Whitehead , as to Papists and you , whose minds are carnal , &c. This never was my Quakerism . For my belief all along , was , that Papists , and Baptists , and all , have a Benefit by Christ's Death . Now it is come to this , That the Blood of Christ is no more to Papists and Baptists , than the Blood of another Saint . His next Defence of S. Eccles's Letter is , That it was no more simply as to the matter of Blood. Then they may [ with Reverence be it spoken ] as it was reported some have said , say , it is no more than the Blood of a Thief , simply as to the matter of Blood ; but it may be affirmed , that simply considered , it was more than the Blood of any Saint ; for as it was never defiled with sin , so his Body of Flesh and Blood had a Miraculous Conception above all other Men , though it had the true Nature of our Flesh and Blood , yet it had an Excellency above that of all other Men. But let us consider these words of S. E. which G. W. saith , might satisfie any Spiritual or unbyassed Mind , I do very highly esteem of the Blood of Christ , to be more Excellent , &c. Here is Solomon Eccles's Fallacy , and George Whitehead's Fallacy also . Now you know what Blood they mean , and see what Blood G. Whitehead means ; The Blood is Spiritual and Inward , the other is a Type . It is confessed , saith G. W. Light and Life , pag. 56. That God by his own Blood purchased to himself a Church , Acts. 20.28 . Now the Blood of God ( saith he ) or that Blood that relates to God , must needs be Spiritual , he being a Spirit ; and the Covenant of God is Inward and Spiritual , and so is the Blood of it . So you see he doth not allow the Blood outwardly shed to relate to God , or to be the Blood of the New Covenant , or that God purchased his Church with that Blood outwardly shed on the Cross . Is not this a plain Justification of Solomon Eccles's Letter , That that Blood is no more than that of another Saint ? judge ye , who are Intelligent . Again , He judges none of them guilty of Blasphemy therein , as he saith pag. 58. Light and Life . viz. Neither Solomon Eccles , nor W. Burnet . But wherein does he charge him ? I find not in any thing . I cannot produce and read to you many of my Proofs for want of time , but two or three to every following Head. You have had an Account of them as to Justification . Now it is worth your while to see how these [ pretended ] Infallible Men contradict one another . W. Penn , ( Reason against Railing ) falls in with T. Danson , and Argues like a Christian , though in Contradiction to himself elsewhere , That no Obedience that Man can perform to God , by the help of the Spirit is strictly Meritorious , according to the Law of God. This is good Doctrine , and so is the Reason too , because it is but finite ; and I would make use of the same Argument . But G. Whitehead , in Answering this Argument , Answers T. Danson thus : Whereas T. Danson Argues , That the Obedience and Righteousness , wrought in the Saints by the Spirit , is but finite , and therefore not Meritorious , G. Whitehead denies this , that it is finite , and saith , it is infinite . So that by his Argumen● , our Obedience and Righteousness that God works in us , is equal to God himself . Now I will read the Passage . W. Penn's Reason against Railing , Pag. 82. Rewardableness is a work without which God will not bestow his Favour , and yet not the meritorious Cause , for that there is no proportion betwixt the work that is finite and temporary , and the Reward which is infinite and eternal , in which sense both the Creature obeys the Commands of God , and does not merit , but obtain only ; and God rewards the Creature , and yet so , that he freely gives too . A good Protestant Argument , and good Protestant Doctrine , so far ; but that he contradicts it again , by opposing the necessity of Faith in Christ crucified for Justification , and totally excluding Christ's Satisfaction , in order to Justification and Remission of sin . You see W. Penn says , the Work is finite and temporary , and therefore does not strictly Merit . But hear G. Whitehead , in his Book , called , The Voice of Wisdom against Antichrist , &c. pag. 36. Printed at London , Anno 1659. (f) The Righteousness which God effects in us , is not finite , but infinite ; for Christ is God's Righteousness , and Christ is formed in us , Gal. 4.19 . And so that Righteousness which God works in us by his Spirit , is of the same Kind and Nature with that which worketh it , for the Saints are made partakers of the (g) Divine Nature , 2 Pet. 1.4 . Now , if you think I have read wrong , read it your selves . Quaker . I do not think so , only I think the whole Paragraph should be read . I hope you have all so much Christianity , as rather to hope , that what G. Keith has pretended to be a Proof , that he cannot prove it , than that he can : For it were well , if there were no Party of People that there could be any Proof against . G. Keith . I wish I had no occasion to produce any Proofs of this kind . Quaker . To pick here and there a piece , out of two or three Books , it is impracticable . G. Keith . They should have been here then to have defended it . I will read the whole Paragraph to you . Now I would haste to a Conclusion . I have proved to you , that they have excluded the Blood of Christ , that we are not justified by the Blood outwardly shed . I come to prove that they say , we are not sanctified by that Blood. I shall read to you , G. Whitehead , pag. 49 , 50 , 51. Here is one Proof , if ye think this is not enough , I will bring more . Neither did I ever read , says the Baptist , that it was the Blood or Life of Christ in his People that we are justified by . Now here is G. Whitehead's Answer , Light and Life , pag. 59. The Spirit of Christ ( which is Life ) doth both Quicken , Sanctifie , and Justifie the true Believers , John 6.63 . 1 Cor. 6. And that Blood and Water that 's said to cleanse , is not of another kind , but agrees in one with the Spirit , all which is known within , and the Effects thereof . So you see he takes it away from the outward Blood , and gives it to the inward Blood. Auditors . Go to the next Head. G. Keith . That is but G. Whitehead's Proof , I shall give you W. Penn's Proof . Auditors . Let us hear it . G. Keith . I would be loath to mention this Man , Is . Pennington . However this Question is in his Book , and I charitably think this Passage dropt from him unawares : I wish I could have that ground of Charity to others of them . But Truth ought to be more Precious to me , than any Man. I only mention his Name as to the Subject we are on . Jo. Faldo thinks that he has made Is . Pennington his own . Can outward Blood wash the Conscience ? p. 29. A plain Denial , says Jo. Faldo . Here is Jo. Faldo's Commentary on Is . Pennington's words . Now see how W. Penn explains Is . Pennington's words , pag. 149. Is he so impiously Vnjust , that because we do deny , that outward Blood can be brought into the Conscience , to perform that inward work ( which they themselves dare not , nay , do not hold ) therefore Isaac Pennington denies any Efficacy to be in that outward Offering and Blood towards Justification , as it respects meer Remission of former Sins and Iniquities . So in short , I take it thus : W. Penn Answers , That Is . Pennington's words are to be understood with reference to Sanctification , but not Justification . Says he , Outward Blood cannot be brought into the Conscience to perform that work : But the way that Blood has been brought into my Conscience , is by the application of a living Faith in Christ , whose Blood it was , the Spirit of God working that Faith in me ; and that Blood is not a Physical , but a Moral once of our cleansing . 1 Christ Jesus , by his Obedience and Suffering , procured the Pardon of my Sins , as well as he sealed it by his Blood. And , 2. He procured the Spirit to Sanctifie me . Therefore I agree with all true Christians herein . I find none say , there must be a material application of that Blood , but a Spiritual and Moral ; and we can give Instances that Moral Causes are many times more effectual Causes than Physical are : As the Money wherewithal we buy the Medicine that cures the Body , is not the Physical cause of Health , but a Moral ; and the Money that we buy Bread with , is not the Physical cause of our Nourishment and Refreshment , but a Moral ; and yet it is so great a cause , that without Money , neither Bread nor Medicine can be readily obtained , and not at all without somewhat equivalent . Now I have done with the two first Heads , shall I go on to prove the other two , or shall we adjourn to another day ? Auditors . If half an hour will do , go on . G. Keith . I know not but it will , but that they oft interrupt us with Digressions . The Third Head to be prove , i● , That the Body that dieth , riseth not again . First , from W. Penn's holding the Resurrection immediately after Death , in his Rejoynder , pag. 138. I think this will be enough for W. Penn , if I give no more . T. Hi●ks Argues thus for the Resurrection of the Body ; That if there be no Resurrection of the Body , the Joys of Heaven should else be imperfect . Now here is VV. Penn's Answer to it . I Answer , Is the Joy of the Ancients now in Glory imperfect ? Or are they in Heaven but by halves ? If it be so unequitable , that the Body which hath suffered , should not partake of the Joys Coelestial , is it not in measure unequal , that the Soul should be rewarded so long before the Body ? This Principle brings to the Mortality of the Soul ( held by many Baptists ) or I am mistaken . But why must the Felicity of the Soul depend upon that of the Body ? Is it not to make the Soul a kind of Widow , and so in a state of Mourning and Disconsolateness , to be without its beloved Body ? Which state is but a better sort of Purgatory . G. VVhitehead Argues the same way : If the deceased Saints in Heaven , or their Souls , have not all that they expect to all Eternity , all the Resurrection they look for , then they must be in Purgatory for the time : But if the latter be not , then not the former . But this contradicts many Scriptures , that especially in Acts 26. That Christ should suffer , and should be the first that should rise from the dead . Now , according to this Doctrine of VV. Penn , and G. VVhitehead , Christ's Resurrection was later than that of many Millions . Now , if you will hear a Proof from G. VVhitehead , you may . Auditors . Yes , let us hear it . G. Keith . Here is the place , pag. 353. G. Whitehead 's Christian Quaker . Says T. Danson , The Happiness of the Soul is not perfect without the Body , its dear and beloved Companion , the Soul having a strong desire and inclination to a re-union to the Body , as the Schools not without ground determine . Vide Calv. And here is G. VVhitehead's Answer , pag. 353. Both Calvin , T. Danson , the the Schools , and divers Anabaptists , are mistaken in this very matter , and see not with the Eye of true Faith , either that the Happiness of the Soul is not perfect without the Body , or that the Soul hath a strong desire to a re-union to the Body , while they intend the Terrestrial Elementary Bodies , for this implies the Soul to be in a kind of Purgatory or Disquietness , till the supposed resumption of the Body . You see I hope here is Proof enough , that G. VV. holds , that the deceased Saints look for no Resurrection of the Body . Quaker . Elementary Body , G. VVhitehead saith . Quaker H. Goldney . He reads that word faintly . G. Keith . What other Body could it be ? The Matter is , there is the same Argument of G. VVhitehead , and VV. Penn. A little Philosophy I hope will not offend you ; I hope if they make use of false Philosophy to defend their false Faith , I may make use of true Philosophy to defend the true Faith. And the Objection they make is the same against Christ's Body . Pray , was not Christ's Body Elementary ? Did he not eat and drink ? And was it not the same as we eat and drink ? And if we eat and drink of what are Elementary , then his Body did receive the same Elements , and they were converted into his Body . And G. VVhitehead owns in his later Writings , that Christ's Body that rose , is the same with his Body that suffered ; but his Pride will not suffer him to own his former Error , either in that , or in other things . And seeing VV. Penn thinks it absurd that a Body can be transformed from an Earthly and Animal Body to an Heavenly Body , as he Argueth , Reas . against Rail . p. 134. He makes it not only as gross as Transubstantiation , but worse . But this is his gross Ignorance in true Philosophy , and his false Philosophy destroys his Faith. It is not Transubstantiation , if I say , a Saint's Body is the same at the Resurrection for substance , as it was when it went into the Grave , leaving the Faeces , or drossy part of it behind . But if he say , Christ hath not the same substance of Body that he had on the Earth , this is plain Transubstantiation . For have not many that Understanding , that a gross body of Herbs , or other Substance , can by Chymical Operation be made so Subtil , Volatile , and Spiritual ( without any Transubstantiation , or change of the Substance ) that a Glass can scarce confine it , or hold it . Now , VV. Penn holds , that grossness is so Essential to a Body , that a Body must cease to be a bodily Substance , if it put off Grossness or Carniety , and that Carniety is Essential to a Carnal Body . But see how contrary this is to common Sense and Understanding . There is no Woman that sets a Hen to breed Chickens , but knows the contrary ; you know the Substance of the Egg ( the White and Yolk ) by the force and heat of the Hen sitting on the Egg , is changed into a Chicken (h) . Is here any Transubstantiation ? So that W. Penn and G. Whitehead are guilty of the Doctrine of Transubstantiation , and not we , and abuse the World with false Philosophy . They warn People against G. Keith , and his false Philosophy ; and I appeal to you to Judge , whether they have not abused the People with false and vain Philosophy . Auditors . If you will answer one of these two things , you that are a Friend of W. Penn , do ; you have excommunicated G. Keith , either answer , or justifie it . G. Keith . If they will appoint a Meeting of Friends , to prove me guilty of Error , I will never refuse to meet them ; and here are many Persons of discretion . I thank God , that has given me that humble Heart , that if they bring any Passage out of my Books that is not to be justified , I will own my Error and shortness . Now , if they would do the like , it would be well . But the matter is here , T. Danson says , Our want of Infallibility is no Argument against our Ministry . G. Whitehead says , it is ; they that want Infallibility are not true Ministers . Now , I hope I have proved they want Infallibility , and therefore by their own Doctrine , they are no true Ministers of Christ . Therefore I think it necessary to have the Passage read . G. Whitehead's Voice of Wisdom , pag. 33. Says T. Danson , As for our want of Infallibility , 't is no valid Plea against our Ministry , &c. Now here is the Answer . His falshood here appears plainly , for they that want Infallibility ( saith G.W. ) and have not the Spirit of Christ , they are out of the Truth , and are fallible , and their Ministry is not of the Spirit , seeing they speak not from the Spirit , but from their own Hearts , which are deceitful , when they want Infallibility . Quaker , N. Marks . I do make my further Appeal to you , and if I am either impertinent or defective , I beg your Excuse . G. Kieth . Then thou art not Infallible . Quaker . You may be ashamed to mention that . (i) Quaker N. Marks . What I have to offer , I submit to you . The Person that has denoted me to be W. Penn's Friend , has hit right ; and I own I am not capable to represent him . And as you are Professors of Christianity , I hope you will not conclude that Philosophy or Logick are any Essentials to Christianity . G. Keith . Who says it is ? But is it not sad , that their false Philosophy should destroy their Faith , and deceive so many People , and destroy their Faith ? Quaker N. Marks . I hope you will observe too , that the Method taken to make the Proofs , has been principally by the Rules of Philosophy and Logick . Next , I beg the Charity of you to consider , how much it is the Right of every Man to give his own Interpretation of all he says and writes . Therefore I hope you will not believe all you hear , having the Illustrations of an Antagonist . Next , I would Apologize for the Persons , they are not here ; it may be you are not all of you capable of knowing the Reason of things . G. Keith has had his Conversation among us many Years , between Twenty and Thirty Years . G. Keith . Between Thirty and Forty Years . Quaker N. Marks . Now for as much as these Writings were then extant long ago , and he was then intirely passive , still , and quiet , under all ; these Objections he now makes , I hope , as we know , so you will believe , it does not arise altogether from the matter of Fact : For I do not think this a good way of proving , to take a bit here and a bit there . Next I say , I hope you will reasonably conclude , that we who knew the Circumstances of his Life and his Temper , knew his Conversation has been such that we could not own him . He stands not charg'd with us on the Account of his Principles . I do not know but you will find , when you have an Answer to what he has offered , that those he charges and paraphrases on , will agree with him in Principles ; nor have we any thing against his Conversation among Men in the World. It was his Discontents with particular Persons , because he was a little troublesome petulant Man and we could not pacifie him ; and it was for that Reason chiefly that we did disown him . G. Keith . A little petulant Man. Quaker . I would have you note , I do not pretend to personate any of the Persons challenged . Auditors . What is this Discourse for , then ? They are ashamed to come . Quaker . I am coming to give you a further Reason why they do not meet him . We have had several Meetings with him before he was put from us . And the Reasons why they did not think fit to meet him now , you have heard , the Paper gives you an Account of it . Now since he is disowned by us , and also by them where he lives , we do not think our selves obliged to submit to such a peremptory Challenge . G. Keith . I suppose you cannot think I can answer to every particular because my Memory does not serve me . He charges me to take a bit here and a bit there out of their Books , I have quoted full Periods at length , as all Authors do , the Quakers when they refute Books of Adversaries , do not use to recite the whole Author they write against . Stranger . About what you say as to Philosphy , Dr. Sherlock says , the Salvation of the Soul Depends not on such niceties ; but for you to charge G. Keith as an Apostate , is one of the greatest Charges under Heaven ; and now for you to say that he differs not from you in Principles , is to clear him from that Charge . Upon which the People made some Shout . G. Keith . Pray be quiet , and regard the Honour of your Nation . Let me put you in mind of one very great falshood . He says — Here one Wyat , or Wait a Quaker interrupted G. K. as they did oft , on purpose to divert him from his matter . Quaker Wait. There is an Apostacy from the Spirit of Christianity , as well as from the Principles : Friends have excommunicated him , not for his Principles , but for going from the Spirit of Meekness , Charity , &c. G. Keith . The Tree is known by the Fruits . I was like a Lamb among I know not what , where there were Two or Three Hundred . I had scarce One that sympathized with me , at their Yearly Meeting , when clandestinely with their Doors shut , suffering none that were my Friends , to be present , they passed false Judgment against me , without any Trial : A Notorious Falshood he chargeth against me , and nothing else : only he calls me a little petulant man ; and he is not a Story above my height . He says , I am — Quaker . I observe a Contradiction in G. Keith ; he said , he was not disowned by half the Yearly Meeting ; and now he says by all . G. Keith . Let me answer that . I say , Divers in the Meeting were favourable — but W. P. and G. W. over-ruled them , and influenced them against me with Prejudice ; and some they over-awed and frighted . There was a Person that came to me , and told me , he would rather suffer his Life to be taken from him , or his Right Hand to be cut off before he would sign a sentence against me . And some others that were not free to consent to them , did purposely absent and this I told them in their yearly Meeting ; that there was such a person that had so spoke to me that day , they asked me who it was , I told them , I desired to be excused , in not telling his Name , that was not convenient . After I was gone , they called over the Roll one by one ; and the poor man seeing it coming to him , says , You need go no further , I am the Man ; now what is this , but to set up something like the Spanish Inquisition ? And there is one ( viz. T. E. ) hath applyed that passage in Scripture , Master , is it I ? but the question there was , Is it thou ? And tho I had cause to think that divers then present did not in Conscience consent to their false Judgment , but thought it too severe , as some has since acknowledged , yet I did not know , as to the last Meeting , that of all them that were present , that I had one that Sympathized with me ; they were all silent , and were-over awed by G. Whitehead and W. Penn's Party . And this poor man , above-mentioned , has come to me since , and disowned that false Judgment , and declared to me before two Witnesses , he did not joyn with them in it . He says I am disowned by them , where I live , I suppose he means the (a) Scots , do I Live among them ? this is a notorious falshood . Stranger . All this is very impertinent to the business in hand . G. Keith . I happened to drop an Expression in Pensilvania , finding the same Errors there I have now mentioned in their Books here , that no Protestant Society would suffer such Errors as these , no not the Church of Rome it self ; my words were , that no Protestant Society would Tolerate them . They began with me . There was an universal neglect among them of Preaching Christ Crucified , and concerning Faith in him ; Preaching only the Light within , and Christ within . Whereupon , a little while after , I began to Preach this ; and they stood up against me , and charged me with new Doctrine ; and one (a) appealed to the Monthly Meeting , whether they ever heard of such Doctrine Preached in the Quakers Meetings , directing them to Faith in Christ without us : I answered , The more shame , and it was now , full time to begin , if it was never Preached in the Quakers Meetings before . But that to witness against Error , and sharply to reprove it , is no Argument of Apostazy . I have most effectual Proofs from the Quakers themselves , Ed. Burrough's says , It is no breach of the Peace to witness against Error , Truths Princip . G. Fox says , He was moved by the Lord to testifie against False Teachers , that deceive the People with false Doctrine . Now if they be guilty of these things , I say I am not to be blamed to withstand their false Doctrine . They say I began first to Print , which is true ; but they sent out their defaming manuscripts against me to England , Barbadoes , Maryland , before I Printed a line against them . What is the last Remedy against oppression ? Why , Printing . Therefore I began . G. Fox . p. 15. Some of the Principles of the (b) Elect People of God , called Quakers . I hope this one Testimony of G. Fox will clear me , that I am not guilty of the breach of the Peace in the Church for opposing their Doctrines . Some Principles of the Elect People of God , signed by G. Fox . Says G. Fox , Moved of the Lord , written from the Spirit of the Lord , for the cleansing of the Land of all false Teachers , Seducers and Deceivers and witches , who beguile the People , and Inchanters and Diviners , and Forgerers and Hirelings , and which is for the good of the People . Now was this man of a Turbulent Spirit ? What work did G. Fox and G. Whitehead make ? What breach upon breach did they make on all other Professions whereof they had been formerly , as Church of England , Presbyterian , Baptists ? Do not mistake me , I Reverence Divine Providence that I became a Quaker . But if I had known they had had such Errors among them , I would as soon have put my Head in the fire , as have owned such among them : But I am of the same Faith as I have been above this thirty years . Quaker . It has been here asserted , that he has been a Quaker above thirty years , and he has Vindicated their Doctrine ; he is a Studious man , and our Books have been publick always ; now for him to come now and call over all Books , that he has , by not opposing , consented to , it looks as if he had Apostatized from what he formerly held . Auditor . Did he ever write against these Principles he now holds ? Quaker . He has constantly Vindicated our Principles . G. Keith . Whereas they say I have not taken notice of their Errors , I say I can appeal to W. Penn and G. Whitehead , that in the year 1678. three Ministers of London rose up against me , and I opposed their Errors at that very time . Auditor . What Ministers were they ? G. Keith . They were Quakers . They accused me of three Principles in my Book , called , The way cast up . The first was , That Christs body rose out of the Grave . They said it never did . 2. That I said It was Lawful to Pray to Jesus Christ Crucified . They denied it , and dared me to give an Instance of one English Quaker that I ever heard Pray to Christ . Whereupon W. Penn said , I am an English-man , and a Quaker , and I own I have oft Prayed to Christ Jesus , even him that was Crucified . And they answered , He is not an Antient Friend of the Ministery ; and G. Whitehead , a man Antient in the Ministery , told them ( there were forty or fifty present ) It is neither what W. Penn , nor what G. Keith says , but let Scripture decide it ; and he took the Bible , and oponed it , and Read , 1 Cor. 1.2 To all that call upon the Lord Jesus Christ , both their Lord and Ours . Their answer was Paul was dark and ignorant , as G. Keith is ; For our part we know better (c) Quaker . Will you say this , and not mention their Names . G. Keith . I will not do it , it is not convenient ; there is one of them a Citizen of very good repute , and therefore it will be better to conceal his Name . Auditor . Go on to the last head . Quaker . H. Goldney , you ought to name his name particularly , if thou dost not , thou art an Impostor . Auditor . He has done enough . G. Keith . I think it not convenient , we must use a little Policy as well as you . Jo. Delawall Published a Manuscript against me , wherein he charges me with Heresy , for saying , The Light within was not sufficient without something else , and that something else was Christ without us . Now they say there is no diference between them and me . I will cite a passage or two out of a Manuscript from Pensilvania , it is a thing that will satisfy your Consciences as much as any thing . I brought the Manuscripts , they were read at the yearly Meeting at London , 1694. and something was objected to the hand ; and it was asked at Samuel Jennings , my Adversary , whether it was the hand of that man , and he said , he believed it was ; and you will find it is matter of Doctrine at the bottom , for which they have Excommunicated me , however they would cloak it : Let them retract their Errors , and I will forgive them my Excommunication . See the Book called , Light and Life , pag. 41. See what is here said by G. Whitehead , That there is not an outward coming of Christ to Judg the Quick and Dead . What I prove from G. Whitehead , is proved from W. Penn ; for W. Penn has Authorized his Book , therefore it is the proof of them both . Here is the place . Moreover Christ said , The Son of Man shall come in the Glory of his Father with his Angels , &c. Matt. 16.27 , 28. Luke 9.26 , 27 Now what is that Glory of the Father , in which his coming is , is it visible to the Carnal Eye ? And when was that coming to be ? Is it now to be looked for outwardly ? But farther we do acknowledg the several comings of Christ , according to the Scriptures , both that in the Flesh , and that in the Spirit , which is manifest in several degrees as there is a growing from Glory to Glory . But three comings of Christ , not only that in the Flesh at Jerusalem and that in the Spirit , but also another coming in the Flesh , yet to be expected ; we do not read of , but a second coming without sin unto Salvation , which in the Apostles days was looked for . And as concerning that noted place , 1 Thes . 4.17 . brougt by W. B. to prove Christs coming without us to judgment G. W. denyeth it to be meant of his Personal coming , and useth a Sophism to contradict it , and wrest it , to his inward coming : whereas all the stress of his Sophism lies in that , We , We , that remain ; but the true Sense of these words is , those Saints , those Believers , that shall be living at that day , shall not prevent them that dyed in Christ before . It is an enallage personae frequent in Scripture , putting we for they , live that or James , therewith bless we God and Curse men . Now all these proofs he has Allegorized to Christ within , he has allegorized away his Birth , his Death , Resurrection , and Ascension , and coming to Judgment ; and so we have nothing from Scripture to prove Christ's Death to be of any benefit to us , and we have no Argument to prove he came in the Flesh : And so all the proofs against Jews and Philosophers he has Allegorized away . Thus you have had a proof from G. Whitehead and W. Penn. Now if you will adjourn the Meeting to some other time , or continue it a while longer , I am content . And I hope I have proved that I am not Petulant , and that I have had just cause to accuse them of these Errors . I was presented by a Grand jury at Philadelgpia ; and the Presentment would have been Prosecuted , if the Government had not been changed , and I had been accused for endeavouring to alter the Government , which is Capital by their Law ; and they would have found me guilty of Death , had they not been turned out of the Government , tho I was innocent : And when I objected against the Jury , they would not suffer one of the Jury to be cast . Now it I had been guilty of any Trespass and , Offence against K. William and Q. Mary , ( the King is alive , and God bless him ) do you think that Governour Fletcher , ( put into the Government by King William and Queen Mary ) that was the Governor there , if he had found me guilty of High Treason , he would have passed me ; but he ordered them to let fall the Indictment . (a) Then the Company desired G. Keith to proceed , if he had any more proofs against G. Whitehead . G. Keith . Yes , I have . Says G. Whitehead to R. Gordon , Dost thou look for Christ's coming again to appear outwardly in a bodily Existence ? If thou dost thou mayest look until thy Eyes drop out before thou wilt see such an Appearance of him . Now see how G. Whitehead has excused this , * he says , He did not mean it of Christ's coming to Judgment ; but he meant it thus , because R. Gordon would needs have it , that Salvation was delayed till Christ's outward coming . I am apt to think he abuses R. Gordon ( not that I would vindicate R. Gordon in every thing , for I think he did overcharge the Quakers in some things at that time , but now I do not accuse or acquit him . ) But I say , he says , he only opposed that false Notion of R. Gordon , as if the Saints remained under their Pollution till the Resurrection from the Dead . Can you think so ? He was a Protestant , and no Protestant will say any such thing . We say , we are saved by hope . I say , in a Scripture sense we may expect that great Salvation then even from all charge of Sin , tho not from any stain of Sin. Not that the sense of Pardon is not made manifest before that day ; but that in that day , all that have Repented and Believed , he will clear them , before God. Angels and Men. The Devil will be ready to accuse them in that day , but Christ will then clear them . It will be a great solemn Assize , and there will be a solemn Acquitment to all that have sincere Repented of their sins , and believed in the Lord Jesus Christ . Quaker . Let the passage be read out . G. Keith . If we had not had these oppositions , we might have saved an Hour . I will read the passage . Dost thou look for Christ , as the Son of Mary to appear outwardly in a bodily Existence to save thee , according to thy words p. 30. If thou doest , thou mayest look until thy Eyes drop out , befor thou will see such an appearance of him . Ye see these are plain and express words agianst Christ's outward coming . The Scripture saith we are saved by hope , and hope that is seen is not hope , our great Salvation in the full accomplishment of it , is at the Resurrection and Christs last coming , then will be the great Discharge and Acquitment , according to 2 Tim. 1.18 . and 2 Tim. 4.16 . The Lord grant that we may find mercy in that day , and that our sins may not be laid to our charge . And Acts 3.19 . it is said , Repent , and be Converted , that your sins may be blotted out , when the times of refreshment shall come , &c. The word is very well Translated , when the times of Reanimation shall come , the Greek is , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . Quaker . I desire to be heard a word . G. Keith . I have not done yet . I beg of you , I shall be but short . I had said I had upward of six Manuscripts . What says T. Elwood ( in his way of quibling ) six and an half ? All these Manuscripts were read at the Meeting two years ago , and for the Censure they gave of them ; I said I thought they had ( tho I confess I judg very mincingly ) censured these unsound expressions , Yet Tho. Elwood tells me that I am guilty of Forgery , that I said the Yearly Meeting said any thing like it . Here is the Paper of the Yearly Meeting , this Paper shews whom it came from ; does it find no fault with these Expressions in these Pensilvanian Papers . Here is seven or eight , I will read a few lines . I have brought an Original here , it is somewhat worn , but it may be read well enough ; I am glad that my Neighbour has such Charity for me , that he thinks I will not read wrong ; I can read every word of it , tho it be somewhat worn . I shall forfeit the Name of an honest man , it I read one word different from the Original . The words in John Humphrey's first Letter . Who is he that dares to make a Distinction between Christ's Body and his Spirit , and to put asunder what God hath joyned together ? Is not this to divide Christ to use that Terms , viz. Christ within , and Christ without ? when he himself , in that very Body that suffered , said , he that eateth my Flesh , and drinketh my Blood , dwelleth in me , and I in him , and in that day we shall know that it is the very same that liveth in us , that hath died for us , which before we could not come to know , altho any should tell us of it ; for Christ in us , is the hope of Glory , and they that draw , us to look for Christ without , we are not to go forth after them , to divide Christ's Body from his Spirit . I perceive by G. Keith's Ten Articles of Faith , that they relish too much of Carnality , a Carnal Body of Christ in Heaven , a Carnal Election and Reprobation , a Carnal Justification and Adoption , a Carnal Day of Judgment and Resurrection , beyond the Grave . I am grieved to hear some say , they did expect to be Justified by that Blood that was shed at Jerusalem . Is 't not to be carnally minded . I have not read the whole Letter , but an intire Paragraph of it . So farewel Christ without . You divide Christ , if you mention Christ without . Now mark , these Ten Articles of mine , that he calls Carnal , they are short , will you hear them ? They are in Print . My Adversaries sent them over from America to England , and that before I came to England , as an Inditement against me ; Frances Bugg met with them , and Printed them ; my Adversaries here sent them about as a great Crime against me . Some of the Principles of G. Keith and his Friends . 1. That Bodily Sickness and Death came in by the Fall. 2. That Christ has now in Heaven a Soul and a Body , that is not the Godhead , but the Temple of it , and most gloriously united therewith . 3. That Christ's Body that was Crucified and Buried without us , rose again without us ; and is now in Heaven without us 4. That the Man Christ Jesus will come again in that Body without us , to judg the Quick and the Dead . 5. That there shall be a general day of Judgment , that all the deceased Saints are in expectation of . 6. That we get not the Resurrection of the Body , either in this mortal Life , or immediately after Death . 7. That Faith in the Man Christ without us , as he Died for us , rose again , and is gone into Heaven , wrought in us by thy Spirit of Christ , is universally necessary to make Men true Christians , and Children of God , born of the Free Woman , who have the Spirit of Adoption , crying , Abba Father . 8. That Christ's Obedience and Righteousness , which he performed in , himself , without us , is imputed to us by Faith for the Remission of Sins . 9. That Christ is not only God's Elect , but all that shall be saved from the beginning to the end of the World , are God's Elect , being chosen in him ( not only before they Believe and Repent , but ) before the Foundation of the World. 10. That all and every one of the Members of the Church of Christ ( who are at age can speak ) ought to confess with their Mouths , in the hearing of some of their fellow Members , the Fundamental Principles of their Christian Faith , before they can be owned to be Members of the Church , that by the same , as well as by a good Life and Conversation , it may be known who are qualified to be Members of our Church , which is a boundary Term and Bond of our Union , the Spirit being the Principal , which may be easily done by Answering to some plain Questions . G. Keith his Ten Articles read all condemned to be Carnal by the Pensilvania Letter of J. H. a Preacher among the Quakers there , these Ten Articles were read at the Yearly Meeting at London , 1694. and the Letter that Condemned them , also read at the said Yearly Meeting , and that Letter Justified by Th. Elwood , the Patron and Advocate for that Yearly Meeting ; and therefore we ought , if we give Credit to Th. Elwood , to conclude that the Yearly Meeting at London , 1694. hath concluded all these Ten Articles to be Carnal , which yet express the Common Faith of all Christendom . The Second Letter Read. The Words of John Humphery's Second Letter . I craved no favour to my Paper from thee , nor them , but that word ( only ) which was the omission of my Pen , and never intended to be put under a Bushel , if occasion did require . But however let Deceit and Malice have its full force and scope upon it , and that word ( only ) taken off the conclusion of my Paper , which that saying of our Saviour himself , when he Expounded his meaning unto them ( who in these days had offended at his own words ) will clear me of your Aspersion , John 6.63 . It is the Spirit that Quickneth the Flesh profiteth nothing , so he himself ascribed the Work of man's Salvation , and Sanctification , not to the Flesh that Suffered , but to the Spirit that Quickned ; not to the Blood that was Shed at Jerusalem , but unto the Flesh and Blood that is Spiritual , which the Saints was to feed upon , and their Robes was made white by ▪ and it doth appear , that these that are otherwise minded , do not rightly discern the Lord's Body . Some of his own Fraternity perswaded him to put in the word , only , and that would excuse the matter ; he puts in the word , only , and he thinks it was against his Conscience , and so bids put it out again . Quaker . Whether do ye own sanctification to the blood outwardly shed , or to the Spirit inwardly given . G. Keith . I say to both , to the blood of Christ that was outwardly shed at Jerusalem , and to the Spirit of Christ inwardly given , to believers . Now they say that I have belied them , they never knew any that said they were not sanctified by that blood . You see what proofs I have brought , and therefore I must be an Apostate for accusing them of errours . Who would have thought , but that the yearly Meeting , if they had any regard to the honour of Christ's blood , would have shown greater zeal against these Men , than to excommunicate me , for opposing their vile errors in Pensilvania , and for rendring that precious blood shed for us as an unprofitable thing , so trampling it under foot : But ye see , they have little at all censured them , and if you will believe their Patron , ( as ye have cause , they owning his Books ) nothing at all . Th. Ellwood affirms , I am guilty of Forgery , for saying that the yearly Meeting passed any reproof on those passages , and whereas I was accused for saying , the light within was not sufficient to salvation without something else . I have a Letter from B. Chambers , one of the principal Evidences , that were against me , he owns that I mean , by that , something else , not humane Learning , not the Letter of the Scripture , not outward preaching , but I mean only the Man Christ Jesus , and his death and sufferings and resurrection , &c. Now here is a new book of Caleb Pusey come out , he calls it a modest account of the difference in Principles between G. Keith and his Adversaries ; and he would father it on me , tho it was not in my thoughts , that Jesus of Nazareth cannot be something else than the light within . I tell you , he would father it on me , because I say there is but one only Christ . Now I say , Christ without does not admit of another Christ within , and Christ within does not admit of another Christ without us . But Christ without us admits of something else within us , and that is his Spirit and Grace : And Christ within us , admits of something else without , and that is his man-hood . This is not another Christ , than what the Scripture speaks of ; but the Light within is one thing , the body of Christ is another thing . Now they of Pensilvania and Th. Elwood give out that I differ from them in Doctrine , these men say I do not : What Confusion is here among them that say they are in Unity ? I say the Light within is not sufficient , without the Light without , Christ without us , yet the Sufficiency of the Light and Grace of God within , in a true sense , I deny not , but own . And whereas they say the most of my Proofs I have brought , have been from Philosophy ; but it has been only , that I may , by true Philosophy , overthrow their false Phylosophy , which destroys their Faith. I need not bring Scripture to prove these Points , because they now profess to own them ; but the thing is , the Honour of Infallibility , and that they have accused G. Keith ; that G. Keith has not charged them truly . And here are the two things , their own infallibility , and that I have unjustly accused them . Now whether I have or no , see by the Articles : But if they grant or yeild , that they have any Errors in any of their Books , or unsound passages , that they need retract , and correct , then they are found the false Accusers against G. Keith , and G. Keith's found Innocent . But this will be hard for them to own ; First , That they have Erred : And Secondly , That they have falsely accused G. Keith , for saying they did Err. I have here a Testimony from W. Penn , to prove that Bodily Death did not come in by Man's Sin ; and then it followeth that the Resurrection of the Body doth not come by Christ's Resurrection . W. Penn's words are , in Answer to Muggleton and Reeve , p. 55. If the Flesh of Beasts is capable of Dying , rotting , and going to dust , who never sinned , why should not Man have Dyed , and gone to dust , though he had never sinned . You see this is almost expresly in terms . And whereas J. H. calleth one of my Articles , a Carnal Reprobation . There is nothing about Reprobation in my Articles , and the word Carnal is not in-any of the Ten. Auditor . Now let him that Answers for W. Penn and Geo. Whitehead tell us what he says to them Articles . But they said nothing to them good or bad , rare Defendents ! G. Keith . I happened to charge W. Penn with self contradiction , will you hear that proved ? It was in my Printed Paper . G. Keith has contradicted himself . How ? Not as to Principles or Practices , but as to his Opinion of W. Penn and G. Whitehead , but I distinguish betwixt G. Whitehead and VV. Penn Orthodox , and G. VVhitehead and VV. Penn Hetrodox , so far as I quoted them , as Orthodox , I stand to these quotations ; but when in other Books and places they have contradicted them , they are accountable for their Contradictions , and not I. So not the G. VVhitehead Hetrodox , and guilty of these vile Errors I have commended , but the G. VVhitehead Orthodox , and the like of W. Penn. Now I beg your Patience for one or two Quotations more , before I have done . It is out of Tho. Elwood , to shew you that Tho. Elwood charges me with forgery , because I said the Yearly Meeting did censure some of these unsound Papers . Here is the passage , it is but short , p. 84. T. Ellwoods further Discovery . Here ye see Friends ( saith T. Elwood ) that that Paper of the Yearly Meeting is so far from owning them of the other side , as he calls them , that is the Friends in America , to be guilty of unsound and Erronious Doctrines ( which G. K. here Expresly saith , it doth ) that it doth not undertake to determine , whether the Offence ( said to be given by some persons ) was throuhg Erronious Doctrines , and unsound Expressions , or through weakness , frowardness , want of VVisdom , and right understanding . And yet this man hath the confidence and falseness ( meaning G. K. ) to say positively , that paper doth own them guilty of holding unsound and erronious Doctrines . This was my Charity to them , that I thought they censured them , in some part or degree at least . Now these are their words in their Yearly Meeting Paper , 1694. London , from which I gathered , that they censured the words of those in Pensilvania : And although it appears that some few Persons have given offence , either through Erronious Doctrines , unsound Expressions , or weakness , forwardness , want of Wisdom , and right understanding , I construed , or to be equivalent to and , as sometimes it is : Now see if I was not more charitable to the Yearly Meeting , than he is to them . Here you see that that Paper of the Yearly Meeting , is so far from owning them guilty of unsound Doctrines , which G. Keith says it does &c. By all which it is plain , that not only Th. Elwood , but all that approve his Books , approve and justify all these Vile Errors , I have proved them in Pensilvania , guilty of , and if he may be credited , the Yearly Meeting at London , 1694. is equally guilty with them . Quaker . This is only thy different apprehension . G. Keith . He says the Yearly Meeting has not found fault with any of these Expressions . Now let me read one Passage more , it is but about six Lines , and I have done with the Printed quotations at present . pag. 99. He blames me for comparing the Books of Friends , to the Books of the Greek and Latin Fathers , p. 99. For further Discovery . In comparing ( says Tho. Ellwood ) the Books of Friends to the Books of them called the Greek and Latin Fathers , he has not done as a Friend and Brother , but as an Enemy , in supposing Friends Books to have been written by no better guidance nor clearer sight than theirs who lived and writ in those dark times . You see how modest they are here . Auditors . They gave a shout , signifying their dislike , that the Quakers Books should be preferred so far to the Greek and Latin Fathers , next to the days of the Apostles . Quaker , N. M. It is very well that the whole Paragraph be read , that it may give the more satisfaction to the Auditory : which was accordingly done . T. Ellwood saith , He ( viz. G. K. ) turns off , and says , I reflect not only on him , but on the late Christian Teachers and Writers , who have corrected the Errors and unsound Expressions contain'd in the Books of them called the Greek and Latin Fathers . Now hear what he further says , In comparing the Books of Friends to the Books of them called Greek and Latin Fathers , ut supra . Quaker , J. Waite . I have made few Observations on the whole , one or two particular , the other are general . The first is , that he charges G. Whitehead and W. Penn to destroy the Object of Faith. Now , when he speaks of some Doctrines , that were preached by him in 1678 , and that he was reproved for saying it was lawful to pray to Jesus Christ , he has vindicated W. Penn as to this Point , who said he did so . — Also he has vindicated G. Whitehead , saying that — He directed not to what either of them could say , but what Scripture says , and he cites them a clear passage , that was then believed by him , and , I believed by all Quakers . The other particular Observation I did note , is , that the Quakers have not used recite the whole Author they write against ; and I appeal to you , whether G. Keith , in the opposition he has made , has ever repeated a whole Author . These are my particular Observations . The general is , that what has been casually dropt , and I believe there are none concerned on this occasion , but ( I say ) they may sometimes be apt to drop some Expressions , that they will not stand by . But to urge these against the whole Party , is too hard , and is very * uncharitable ; and therefore , I hope , you will not conclude the whole body concerned in it . And G. Keith hath been conversant among us eight and twenty years , or more , and has preached the Doctrines owned by us , and writ many Books that related to fundamental Articles of Faith ; I believe him that they were owned by the People he was joyned with . And at the yearly meeting , the charge against him , and his expulsion , was not matter of Doctrine , but Practice , which was turbulent : And therefore he has apostatized from what he was before , from the meekness and integrity that is agreeable to the Doctrine of Christianity . Stranger . G. Keith . I see you are almost spent , I will answer for you . He says , it was the whole body that was against you ; it was the worse , that the Excommunication should be from the whole yearly Meeting , without mentioning any thing in particular . For a man to apostatize , is to apostatize from the whole Faith ; but for a man to differ with respect to particular things , this is not Apostasie . G. Keith . The words of the Excommunication run thus " I am a man of no Christian " Spirit , I have dismember'd myself from the Church of Christ . If they had said from this particular Society , it might have passed ; but they say , from the Church of Christ . And why ? Because there is no Church of Christ on Earth , but the Quakers ; and no Representative of them , but the Yearly Meeting in Gracechurch-street . You see how weak that man's Objections are . The Auditory shouted . Quaker , H. Goldney . This man asserts a Lye , and then the People are taken with it , as if it were a Truth G. Keith . If I have spoken amiss , I am willing to be brought to a tryal . He says I have answer'd many Books , wherein I have not recited all the Books I have answer'd . It is true , and I blame not them for not doing so . But they say , I only take bits and scraps here and there . I say , what cause have I to recite G. Whitehead and W. Penn's whole Books to you , when they have not done so ? I think it sufficient to give an account of their sense from full Periods and Paragraphs . He says I have already cleared George Whitehead and William Penn , from that charge that they have not destroyed the Object of Faith. And I say I have proved that they have destroyed the Object of Faith ; if they have at other times Owned it , let them disown and retract their Errors ; I am not to account for their Contradictions . They have Contradicted themselves ; they have disowned the Object of Faith ; and if I have charged them with it , this is no Contradiction in me , but in them . Quaker . H. Goldney made an interruption , while G. K. was speaking , as he oft did , and gave great offence to the Auditory with his impertinencies and reflections , calling G. K. Lyer , Impostor , Apostate . G. Keith . The reading of this Paper , if ye please , shall conclude this Meeting . After T. Ellwood came out with his further discovery , I made my Complaint to the Monthly Meeting at Bull and Mouth , against the Forgeries and false Accusations that his Book was filled with , and I begged of them , that they would hear my Charge against him ; but they would not suffer me , they said I might print , as T. Ellwood did ; but I said I could not , they have a Stock , I have not . Whereupon I went to some of the Church-Party that favour'd me , and told them , if I could not get a meeting to hear me , my design was to give forth a printed Advertisement of a Meeting to clear myself of these things , and they might be present if they would . Some of their Party said to me , George , do not they , or some of them would give me a meeting . Accordingly they gave me a meeting . They took notice of some of Ellwood's Forgeries and Abuses ; some of them have , I hope , that Courage , that I believe they would not be offended nor afraid if I named them : They have said in their Paper , T. Ellwood has done me wrong . Quaker , H. Goldney . Let us know their names , who they are . G. Keith . We must use some little Policy , as well as ye . Some of them are eminent among you . Here is a Copy of a Paper containing an account of the matter . There were , I think , nine or ten of them , H. Goldney , if I should name them , would not deny them to be his Brethren . Quaker , H. Goldney . I dare thee to name their names , or else thou art a Lyar , an Impostor , a Cheat ; I dare say it is a Cheat. And turning to G. K. he said , O thou Lyer , thou contentious Creature ! G. Keith . See this little man's passion now , what is he but a Creature , and a contentious Creature ? I contend for Truth , he and they against it . I will not name them without their consent ; only bid this angry man , Henry Goldney , be silent , and I will read their Paper , containing their Censure against T. Ellwood in divers * particulars . The true Copy of a Paper containing a Censure and Judgment of a Meeting of Friends , ( owned by Tho. Ellwood's Brethren , to be in Vnity with them , and generally in good Repute among them ) held at London the 12th Month , 1694 , in divers weighty particulars . IN Thomas Ellwood 's Book , entituled , A further Discovery , &c. pag. 31 Thomas Ellwood blames G. K. for mistating the Controversie , and cunningly sliding in the word Within , when he knew it was not in the words charged , nor in the words proved . A true Copy of the three Judgments , p. 6. are these words : All which are something else than the People called Quakers understand by the Light , to wit , the light in every man's Conscience , which G. K. alledgeth , is Proof that G. K. intended the Light within . In Benjamin Chambers Letter , dated Philadelphia the 24 th of the fourth Month , 1693. one of the four credible Evidences against G. K. are these words following . The substance of what Tho. F●tzw●ters had said , to wit , that according to his own Apprehension of thee , thou didst not believe the Light of Christ within Man is sufficient for Salvation without something else : To which words thee didst then in the audience of the Meeting forthwith reply , No more I do not , without something else In John Delaval 's Letter , dated the 24th of the 10th Month , 1692. are these words , cited out of G. W. 's Book : That the Light which is sufficient to convince of Sin , and leads out of it , is sufficient to guide unto Salvation , but such is the Light of Christ in every man. John Humphry's Two Letters read , and both to the same purpose . T. E. Further Discovery , &c. pag. 101. are these words : And this makes a Verbal Confession ; yea , a bare Verbal Confession , sufficient to yoke them , as he phrases it , together in Church-Fellowship . Reasons and Causes of the Separation , pag. 22. ad finem ; Tho. Elwood leaves this out , viz. Touching these necessary and fundamental Principles of Christian Doctrine , as well as that their Conversation is such as becomes the Gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ . Pag. 36. That the Church of Christ is the multitude of sincere Believers in Christ , who ought to manifest their Faith to one another , by the living confession of the Mouth , flowing from the living Faith in the Heart , accompanied with the seal and confirmation of a Holy and Christian life and conversation . Pag. 103. Tho. Ellwood accuseth G. K. for giving of false Quotation , or forging Quotation out of Robert Barkly's Book . G. K's Quotation compared with Robert Barkly's agrees , as quoted ; Reasons and Causes , &c. pag. 16. for Substance of Doctrine , pag. 24 , 25 , 26. in express words , pag. 106. T. E. admits of Substance . Further Discovery , p. 19. Tho. Ellwood accuseth G. K. that he blames Friends that they were gone too much from the outward to the inward . But G. K. p. 20. which Tho. Ellwood brings for Proof , saith , That he blames some persons for not rightly and fully preaching Christ without ; so that Tho. Ellwood's consequences seems not fair , but strain'd . Pag. 22. Tho. Ellwood accuseth George Keith of a Fallacy , in declaring , he refused not to go forth at the Yearly Meeting : which Fallacy alledged , was , That G. K. should refuse to go out some one day of the yearly meeting : but that not appearing to us by any Quotation , the supposed Fallacy appears not . And further ; whereas Tho. Elwood alledges , tha● he was led into this Mistake by G. K's obscure way of writing ; for altho' in pag. 14. nor 18. of the Book Reasons and Causes , as Tho. Ellwood unduly argueth * , yet in pag. 3. Plea of the Innocent , quoted by himself , pag 19 of his first Book called an Epistle , &c. we find G. K. gives account ▪ the Yearly Meeting at Philadelphia was in the first week of the 7th month 1691. Further Discovery , p. 26 Tho. Ellwood saith , G. K. asks why they contradicted the sound Judgment of a Monthly Meeting at Philadelphia , passing due Censure upon W. S. sixth month thereafter , and saith . It doth not sound as if it came from a sound Judgment ; as if a Judgment now were capable of contradicting a Judgment that should be given six months after ; whereas it appears by the date of the Judgment given by the publick Friends , to be nine months after the Yearly Meeting , the first being as above , the 1 st of the seventh month , 91 ; the other bearing date the 4 th of the fourth month , 92 : The which Book , Tho. Ellwood being so conversant in , looks as if he could not be ignorant of the adjourned Meeting , being six months after the Yearly Meeting , to wit , the 27 th of the twelfth month , as appears in pag. 10. Reasons and Causes ; and that wherein the supposed Judgment of the Yearly Meeting is , is dated nine months after the Yearly Meeting . In the same Book , pag. 35. Tho. Ellwood alledgeth , That he no where gave that as the only , or any Reason , why the Meeting could not adjourn , to wit , because the Book and Clark was gone . Pag. 36 , & 37. he adds , Let G. K. clear himself fairly of this if he can , till then I shall take it for certain , that that Monthly Meeting was ended and broken up , part of the Friends gone away , the Clerk gone , the Book in which the Proceedings of the Meeting should be recorded gone , before the adjournment was made , and consequently that Adjournment not good , but invalid . Ditto , pag. 42 , & 43. Whereas Tho. Ellwood should have brought matter of Fact , to prove G. K. guilty of the Separation , instead thereof , he argues , as we think , unfairly by logical Nicety . Pag. 42. he blameth G. K. greatly , for not putting the Printer's name to some of his Books . But it 's well known this hath been the frequent practice of the People called Quakers , not to put the Printer's name to their Books , in times of suffering . Pag. 91. Tho. Ellwood alledges , he did not understand that the Doctrine of the Faith of Christ , as he died , being necessary to our Christianity and Salvation , &c. was by him reputed a Doctrine in Controversie between G. K. and others , in America , when in several places of his Books it plainly appears , it was the principal Doctrine in Controversie . See Reasons and Causes , pag. 8 , & 21 , 22. with many others . G. Keith . The Paper is read , the Question was not concerning the Light indefinitely , but whether the Light within was sufficient to Salvation , without the Man Christ and his Death , &c. Thomas Ellwood accuseth me unjustly . That I cunningly slid in the word Light within ; as if that were not the state of the Question , but Light indefinitely comprehending Christ both Light without and within . But ye see how the citations they bring in their Paper clear me , and shew T. Ellwood his injustice against me . — You see there is the Light within , not the Light without , in the Citations they have brought to clear me , and to blame T. Ellwood . And here is another thing they find fault with , as to T. Ellwood's wronging me , as if I had made a meer Verbal Confession , a sufficient qualification to a Member of the Church of Christ . See here they cite my Book , Reasons and Causes , p. 22. — Take notice how they notifie his Forgery , that he leaves out my words , — T. Ellwood says , I make a meer Verbal Confession a Qualification for being a Member of the Church . But I say not so , as if a Verbal Confession were enough , but as well a Conversation , such as becomes the Gospel , is necessary to qualifie a Member . So my Book is , Such a Conversation as becomes the Gospel , p. 36. Reasons and Causes , &c. — I appeal to you , is not this more than a Verbal Confession ? T. Ellwood charges me to say , That a meer Verbal Confession is enough to make a man a Member of the Church of Christ . Now , p. 103 T. Ellwood accuseth me unjustly ( as his own Brethren do observe ) for giving a false Quotation out of R. Barclay's Book called the Anarchy , &c. but they clea● me , and declare it to be true , as it is . T. Ellwood quibbles about Substance , finding fault with my Saying . Somewhere it agrees in Substance with R. B. as elsewhere in express words . — Now these men take notice that T. Ellwood is unfair in taking that liberty to himself he will not allow to me : They observe , he admits of Substance of Doctrine in his own Citations , but will not allow it to me . Another thing T. Ellwood accuses G. Keith ( as they observe in their Censure ) that he blames them for going too much from the outward to the inward : But these are not my words , nor sence . And they censure T. Ellwood for making a strained Consequence on my words ; for , tho' I blamed them for not rightly preaching Christ withou● , yet not for going to the inward Light : for if they did go rightly to God's Light and Gift in their Hearts , they would not hold such gross Errors . But he says , I blame them for going from the outward to the inward , which is not so . See p. 22. Again , they censure him in his blaming me for not naming the Day , Month , or Year wherein that Yearly meeting at Philadelphia was held , which he makes the ground of his perversion , and would excuse it . You see he argues like a rare Logician . He says , I do not name the Year , nor Day ; nor is it in p. 14 , nor p. 18. But what then ? I do it in another page . This is rare Logick . Now , I say , you have both in p. 3. quoted from The Plea of the Innocent . Which p. 3. T. Ellwood has quoted for another purpose , but could not see it for that . And all this Proof is , that I did not tell it in p. 14 , nor p. 18 but I did it in p. 3. His Argument is a Sophism , and is faulty in not making a sufficient enumeration . Again they censure him for charging me with Nonsence . Pray , may not a meeting held six months after contradict a meeting going before ? Very well . But he has given out that I am so weak a man , that I cannot write sence . This morning one came to me with Henry Goldney , and said , People would hoot at me in the Meeting , ( but it is fulfilled on themselves ) thinking me craz'd : And so here is a Paper against me , that I cannot speak sence : And why ? Because he feigns , that I said a meeting six months before contradicts a meeting held six months after it ; when there is no such thing ; but that a meeting six months after , contradicts a meeting six months before . When Tho. Ellwood could not prove , that I began the Separation at Philadelphia , by any Evidence of Matter of Fact , he essays to do it by false Logick , arguing , That the Cause must be before the Effect . Therefore because , I say , Th. Loid and they that were Magistrates went away , this was the beginning of the Separation , and a cause of it . And so when he cannot bring a reason in Matter of Fact , he will go to false Logick for it : So I answer'd his Argument , saying , All learned men , that write of causes and effects , acknowledge that a priority of time is not necessary to the cause ; but it is enough that there be a priority of nature ; the first moment the Sun was created , there was light . And then besides , the cause cannot be the effect , says he ; if their going away from that meeting were the cause of the separation , it was not the effect . But I said to him , formal and material causes may be both cause and effect . As for example ; The formal and material causes of a man , are his Soul and Body , and they are the man. The material and formal causes of this House , are the Stones , the Bricks , the Timber , and the Fashion . Now here these causes are the effect . Now Th. Loid's going away was a cause of the Separation , and yet was a beginning of the Separation : And is it not shameful ? They accuse me of Separation , but they run to a perversion of Philosophy to prove it by , that the cause is before the effect ; when they have no other Arguments against me , but false Logick and vain Philosophy and Deceit , and his own Brethren here in this Paper do censure him , for his arguing unfairly by Logical nicety . Here is another Observation of these honest men : they censure him for saying , he did not understand that the Doctrine of the Faith of Christ , as he died , &c. being necessary to our Salvation , was reputed a Doctrine in Controversie betwixt us . — Whereas the principal Doctrine in Controversie between them and me , was about the Faith of Christ , as he died , &c. whether necessary to our (a) Salvation . Here is something also to take notice of , that he blames me as not fair , for not putting my Name to my Book , nor the Name of the Printer . Now the Quakers have done so in England , in Suffering Times ; and yet the Printer in America was prosecuted by an Act of Parliament , for not printing his Name to some of my Books , and they took away his Letters and Frame : But , I find , that which is Persecution in England , is esteem'd good Justice in Philadelphia . Quaker , N. Marks . I have something to propose to you , if you please . We are all in general very apt , and too apt , to have a good Opinion of ourselves , it is very near to Mankind to do so . You have very well answer'd the Design of this meeting in this ; you have heard him with a great deal of temper . I desire you further to consider , that all considerate men , when they hear one part , hear but with one Ear. So far as G. Keith thinks fit to make this publick , you may expect an Answer , and I hope you will reserve one Ear to hear that . I have a Paper that some persons concerned in this Challenge have sent , that they desire may be read . Which was consented to . G. Keith . The truth is , I could be almost content to go away , and say nothing to it , there is so little of value in it . They say I began with them , but they began with me in Pensylvania . I was doing my duty , in preaching Christ without , and Christ within ; they charged me with preaching two Christs . I went to some of them about it , but they took their part against me . I laid it before the Ministry at the Yearly meeting , they also took their part . Now , you know , he that affirms , on him lies the business of proving . W. Pen , when I was opening a place of Scripture , he charges me with being an Apostate and Impostor . Here he charges me with being an Apostate ; I say , to him it belongs to make his charge good , but he goes away . — At the Yearly meeting , I put it to him to make it good . I do not doubt but this meeting will sound through the Nation . They urge me to Printing ; I say again , I have not either Estate or Time to print Book upon Book . And tho' I have not answer'd the said two (b) Books , why may not I say as they do , They are not worth answering ? As for example , There is a Book called , The Snake in the Grass , ( I would not vindicate all things in it ) but they have been urged to answer it ; their Answer is , it is not worth answering : This man that prints this half-sheet says , it cannot be supposed that G. Keith can answer eighteen sheets of Paper in a Meeting . Why can it be ●upposed ? But G. Fox can answer an hundred sheets of Paper in a few Pages . He has answer'd Books of ten or twelve sheets in a few lines . And as for their upbraiding my Friends for not bearing the charge of Printing my Books , they that own me here , are not many of them rich , and I would not put them to it . But now there is the thing , the Controversie is , whether the rich Church , or the poorer Church , be the Ch. of Christ . G. Keith's is the (c) poor Church , and theirs is the rich Church , and I am not asham'd of my Poverty , seeing I have not done any dishonest thing . I have weaken'd my Estate by printing what I have printed already ; there is a Printer here , that can own I have paid near forty pounds to him for Printing . Now they upbraid me for my Poverty . Their Church is the true Church , because the rich Church ; and ours the false Church , because the poor Church . Quaker , N. Marks . You should hear one side but with one Ear , and leave the other free for the other side . G. Keith . I am perswaded the Reasons given in the Paper read at the beginning , were no just Reason for their not appearing . But though some comparisons are odious , yet give me leave to make a comparison . May a Malefactor make this excuse ; You shall not call me before a Justice without my consent ? If a man rob me , I may complain of him as a Robber , and without his consent call him to account ; but here is a strange thing , injuring men may not be called to account without their consent , it will trespass against the Law , and intrenches upon liberty of Conscience . I was advised to go before the Lord Mayor of London , and I did , and told him , I hoped it would give no offence to Authority : for the things I was concerned in were the common Doctrines of Christianity ; if there be any Tumult , says I it shall not be on my side : And the Lord Mayor was pleased to consent to it . Now their printed Paper seems to reflect on the publick Authority , and not what I have done . And thus the Meeting peaceably ended , between the second and third hour in the Afternoon . Note , If any of my Adversaries object , That divers of these Proofs here brought , were brought formerly in my Book against W. Penn and G. W. call'd , A short List of the vile and gross Errors which T. Ellwood hath replied to in his printed Book called Truth defended ; I answer , I know not any one of them that he has sufficiently answer'd unto , to give the least Sati●faction to any sound Christian , his Answers being meerly Evasions and Perversions ; as I should have shown , if he had appear'd . But beside , there are many new Proofs here brought , beside the former , which I am well satisfied they can never truly answer , but by a sincere and free Confession of their gross Errors , and a hearty retracting and relinquishing them , And if any that were present at that Meeting , or may happen to read this printed Account , with the proofs brought out of their Books in full Periods and Paragraphs , as often as there was any occasion , are desirous to see the Books , and to read the Proofs in the said Books , that were then brought , or any others that may be brought , I freely offer them that are sober and impartial persons , to let them have the free sight and view of them , leisurely to read and consider them , if they please to call at my House . And I the rather make this Offer , because divers of these Books are not easily to be had , not being in the hands of many . And because I had not time enough to read divers other great Proofs that I had , being hinder'd with the impertinent Digressions of those that interposed , ( whom we had no just Cause to hear , pretending no Deputation from the persons they spoke for , and therefore only were permitted , by Favour , to shew their Impertinencies ) . I therefore think fit to add some other few very considerable Proofs out of these mens Books , and perhaps one or two out of Books approved and commended by them , and some few more of W. Penn's and George Whitehead's Self-Contradictions . AN APPENDIX , CONTAINING Some other Considerable Passages for Proofs , out of these Mens Books , relating to the foregoing Heads ; and some few more of W. Penn's and G. Whitehead's Self-Contradictions , which were design'd to have been read at the Meeting at Turners-Hall , 11th of the Month call'd June , 1696. but for the Diversions made , could not then be read . IN George Whitehead's Book called The Divinity of Christ , he hath this most unsound and scandalous passage concerning Christ , how a Sacrifice , and his Blood. In his Answer to T. Danson's Synopsis of Quakerism , p. 70. first he sets down the words of John Owen thus : The Sacrifice denotes his Human Nature , whence God is said to purchase his Church with His own Blood , Acts 20.28 . for He offer'd Himself through the eternal Spirit ; there was the Matter of the Sacrifice , which was the Human Nature of Christ , Soul and Body ; His Soul was made an Offering for Sin , Isa . 53.10 . His Death had the Nature of a Sacrifice . Against these sound words of John Owen he quarrels , and contradicts thus : Answ . These passages are but darkly and confusedly express●d ; as also we do not read in Scripture , that the Blood of God , by which he purchas'd his Church , is ever call'd the Blood of the Human Nature : nor that the Soul of Christ was the Human Nature , or was put to death with the Body , ( for the Wicked could not kill the Soul ) though his Soul was made an Offering for Sin , and he poured it out to Death , ( he bore the Sin of many , and made intercession for Transgressors ) but what Death ( and in what manner ) was it , is a Mystery truly to know ; for his Soul in his own being was immortal , and and the Nature of God is divine , and therefore that the Blood of God should be of human ( or earthly ) nature , appears inconsistent ; and where doth the Scripture call the Blood of God Human , or Human Nature ? Neither do we read , that the Blood which beareth Record in the Earth , and agrees in one with the Spirit , ( and which purgeth the Conscience , washeth and cleanseth the Believer in the Light from all Sin ) was ever called by the Apostles the Blood of the Human Nature . Nor do we read , that the Saints did eat and drink Flesh and Blood that was of a human nature , to receive Divine Life in them thereby : for the Water of Life and Blood of Christ , which are said to wash , sanctifie , and justifie ; which agrees with the Spirit in those Works and Effects We never read , that they are called in Scripture by the name of Human Nature , for the Spirit that quickens is divine , and it is the Spirit that gives Life , the Flesh profiteth nothing , John 6. Now this unsound Doctrine of G. W. doth so well agree with that in John Humphrey's two Letters abovementioned , that John Humphrey seems to have been his Disciple in the Case : and it is certain this sort of Doctrine of G. Whitehead hath corrupted the Minds of many . We see he will not own either the Flesh , or Blood of Christ , or Soul of Christ , to belong to the human nature . Annotat. Before I understood the Mystery of Iniquity and Antichristianism that lay hid , under the finding fault with this name or term Human Nature of Christ , and his Humanity , observing that divers found fault with it , I was ready to excuse them , thinking , that tho' they disowned the term Human , yet they owned that signified by it , to wit , the real Manhood of Christ , having a real Soul and Body , that is not the Godhead , but most gloriously united therewith . And accordingly I did in part excuse them , as in my Book The True Christ owned , pag. 20 and pag. 105 I cited some words of Hilarius , Lib. 10. de Trinitate ; Quid per Naturam Humani corporis concepta ex Spiritu S. caro judicatur . i. e. Why is the Flesh conceived of the Holy Ghost , judged by the nature of an Human Body ? But neither Hilarius nor I judged that the Body , though conceived of the Holy Ghost , was any part of the Substance of the Holy Ghost , the Particle of in that place denoting the Holy Ghost to be the Efficient Cause of that Conception , but not the Material . But that my Mind and Sense , that Christ had the true Nature of Man , of Soul and Body , neither of which were the Godhead , was sound then as now , and the same as now , plainly appears from Page 20. of my Book above cited , where I say , Human Soul may signify the true Soul of Man , having all the essential properties of man's Soul , and its whole Perfection . And if in this sense any will say , That Christ hath a Human Soul , and call the Manhood of Christ his Humanity , there needeth no contention about it : For in the Latin Tongue we have not a word so proper as Humanitas , to signify the Manhood ; and if we may say Humanitas in Latin , we may say in English , Humanity . G Whithead his Objection against the word Human , as signifying Earthly , hath the same force against calling Christ Adam , coming from the Hebrew word Adamah , that signifieth Earth . And the Scripture calleth the Man Christ the second Adam ; and certainly the Man Christ had not only that which was Heavenly , but had even our Earthly part , but without sin ; his Body being nourished with Earthly Food , which Body now glorified is Heavenly . But that I differed as much in Doctrine from G. Whithead then as now , as concerning the Blood of Christ , and the sense of that place of Scripture , Acts 20.28 . ( what that Blood of God was , wherewith he purchased his Church , he affirming it was the Blood , not of the Human Nature or Humanity , but of the Divine Nature , as may be seen above ) appears in my Book above-mentioned , The true Christ owned , pag. 94. I expresly say , I grant that there is such a figurative speech of the Communication of Names and Properties , whereby the Man Christ is called God , and also God is called Man ; and God is said to have shed his Blood , although Christ as God hath not Blood to shed , but only as Man ; yet by reason of that most rare and wonderful Union betwixt the Godhead and Manhood , the Blood of the Man Christ is called the Blood of God , Acts 20.28 . This may serve as one great Instance , to shew , That as I am not changed in this Doctrine from what I was many years ago ( that Book of mine being printed Anno 1679. ) , so I did then as widely differ from G. W. in that great Article of Faith , as I do now . But I confess I knew not that any such absurd Doctrine was in his Books , till of late that I made a more narrow search , occasioned by his defending the same Errors in his Pensilvanian Brethren . Again ; In the same Answer to T. Danson's Synopsis , T. D having affirmed that there is a continual need of Faith and Repentance in this life , G. Whithead answereth , That there is a continual need of Repentance , this I deny ; for true Repentance , where it is wrought , and the fruits of it brought forth , this is unto Salvation never to be repented of , and is attended with a real forsaking of sin and transgression . Annot. G. Whithead's Ignorance greatly appeareth in this , that he thinks Repentance and Perfection inconsistent ; but it is a strange Perfection that destroyeth an Evangelical Virtue and a Fruit of the Spirit , such as Repentance is ; and what is Repentance ? A change of the mind , or a transformation of the mind , as the Greek word , Englished Repentance , implieth ; or more particularly , true Evangelical Repentance is a great aversion and perfect hatred of the soul to all sin , and a deep humiliation before God , with godly sorrow and contrition of soul for sins past , which is very consistent with , and very becoming the most perfect and holy men that ever lived , since all have sinned ▪ It seems it is from this great Error that he and many others of his Brethren seldom , if ever , pray for Forgiveness of sin , at least for themselves ; for if there be no need of Repentance , it will follow that there is no need of praying for Forgiveness : But all sound Christians of true spiritual experience do know , that both Repentance for sin , and praying for Forgiveness of sin , are well consistent with the greatest degree of Holiness attainable in this life : Nor doth the praying for Forgiveness imply universally the want of it , more than the praying for the Spirit implieth the want of it . Again ; Whereas it was said in the above Narrative , That G. Whithead hath allegorized away the Birth , Death , Resurrection , and coming again of Christ without us to Judgment ; take these plain Proofs . 1. His allegorizing away his Birth , prophesied of by Isaiah , 9 6. Unto us a child is born , a Son is given : This he expoundeth of Christ born within . He-Goats Horn , Page 51. 2. He allegorizeth away his Resurrection , expresly denying that Christ was bodily seen of Paul , and perverting that place in 1 Cor. 15.8 . to Christ within . Page 51. 3. He allegorizeth away his coming without us to Judgment , in these Scriptures , Matth. 16.27 , 28 1 Thes . 4 15 , 16 , 17 Light and Life , Page 40 , 41. 4. Both he and Richard Hubberthorne allegorize away his Burial , Light and Life , Page 52. and He-Goats Horn , Page 62 perverting that Scripture , Isa . 53. He made his grave with the wicked ; he adulterates the true Translation , and turns it , in the wicked , which the Hebrew doth not bear : Where see a most absurd account of the Resurrection , turning it wholly to the Resurrection of two Seeds in two Bodies within men . 5. He allegorizeth away the Resurrection of the Saints Bodies , by his perversion of that place of Scripture , — Who shall change our vile body , and fashion it like to his glorious body , Phil. 3.21 . to a change of the Body that the Apostles and Saints witnessed before death ; and yet in contradiction to that , in his Real Quaker a Real Protestant , Page 105. he understands that very place of a change of the vile , or low and humble Body , like unto the glorious Body of Christ , as a thing to come . Some other of Geo. Whithead's Contradictions . 1. GEO. Whithead in his Light and Life , page 69. thinks him a very blind and ignorant man that reckons Bodies Celestial and Terrestrial to be all one in Matter and Substance ; and yet the same G. W. in malice of the Independant Agent , pag. 17. ( recited and approved by John Pennington , Apostat . expos'd , p. 16. ) owns that Christ's Body now in Heaven is the same in substance he had on earth : So by his own words he hath declared himself to be a blind and ignorant man , and yet Infallible , otherwise by his own word no true Minister . 2. In a late * printed Half sheet , signed by him and seventeen more , he owneth Christ to be both God and Man , and owneth the Humanity of Christ , making it synonimous with Manhood ; and yet it is proved in the above Narrative , that he neither owneth him to be God or Man ; finding fault with W. Burnet for saying that Christ as God had a Father , and had Glory with God before the world began ; arguing as the Socinians do , that this would imply two Gods ; s●e Light and Life , page 47. Again ; He finds fault with T. Danson for saying that the Man Christ had a Created Soul : Answer to T D. 's Synopsis , p. 18. And he blames R. G. for saying Christ hath a Bodily Existence without us , in Heaven ; Nat. of Christianity , page 41. 3. In his late Answer to the Queries sent to the Yearly Meeting of the people called Quakers , at London , signed by Dr. Lancaster , Chaplain to the Bishop of London , he owns the Blood of Christ that was outwardly shed , to be a part of the Sacrifice , even Christ's Blood that was shed without the gates of Jerusalem , together with the whole Sacrifice of himself , both of Soul and Body , was a true Propitiation and Atonement for man's Reconciliation and Peace with God , for Remission of sin , through a living Faith , and true Repentance , &c. But in his Light and Life , he denieth that the outward Blood was that by which we are either sanctified or justified , and calleth it a Type , and saith the shedding of it was a wicked man's act ; from whence he inferreth that we are not justified by the outward Blood , but pleadeth , that the Offering Passover Blood , by which we are cleansed , is within , as the New Covenant is , and not without ; See in the Narrative above . And this sort of Unchristian Doctrine G. Whithead ( as many others ) did receive neither from the Spirit of Christ within , nor from the Holy Scriptures , but , as it seems , from G. Fox , who in a printed Paper of his , having this Title , To all People in Christendom , concerning Perfect Love , &c. also concerning Christ's Flesh which was offered , ( which printed Paper I have ; it is joined with some other printed Papers under this general Title , Several Papers given forth for the spreading of Truth ; See Page 55 , 57 , 59. ) hath very unsound and unchristian Doctrine concerning Christ's Flesh , that is , the Offering , in which is the belief ; by Christ's Flesh meaning not his outward Flesh . Some of his words I shall faithfully recite as followeth , ( that to me are very unsound , and I believe in general to all sound in the Faith ) : — And Christ according to the flesh crucified , the Lamb slain ; that flesh of his which is a Mystery , when the first Adam's and Eve's flesh was defiled , and so death reigned from Adam to Moses , pag 55. — And Pag. 57. So Adam's , Eve's flesh was defiled , but the flesh of Christ , the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world , yet his flesh never corrupted , which flesh is the offering ; for as he was God he did not dye ; and this flesh is a Mystery ; and in this fl●sh ( Note ) is the belief that takes away the sin , that never corrupted , that is the Offering for sin , and the Blood of this flesh cleanseth from sin , p. 58. — Now they that are in the belief of this fl●sh , and offering , sees over all offerings , to the beginning into the Glory which was with the Father before the world began ; for all outward Offerings and Sacrifices was given to man after he fell , and the Lamb slain ; which Offering is a Figure of Christ , the Seed to be brought forth and offered up , and he the Top stone over all laid , to end and finish all the outward Offerings , and Types , and Shadows , and in him there is none , Page 59. So through this Offering is the Reconciliation , through the offering of his flesh , that never corrupted , but takes away corruptions , and his Blood cleanseth from Corruptions the Life real . And so this pure Flesh , this Offering , is set over all , which never corrupted , which must be your meat if you live : Though there is more in all these things , which is hard to be uttered , and cannot be uttered Yet . Annot. It seems what G. Fox did not so fully utter as to this Mystery , George Whithead had a mind to utter in his Book called Light and Life , that may be as a proper Key to these dark Sayings of George Fox . If any object to me , as Th Elwood hath done in his Book falsly called Truth defended , That I have in some of my Books owned Christ's flesh and Blood within ; I answer , I confess it ; but no otherwise but in the Scripture sense , and by way of Allegory , and in Metaphor ; as when the Divine Life inwardly enjoyed in the Saints , is also called by way of Metaphor and Allegory , Bread , Wine , Oyl , Milk , Honey , M●rrow , and Fatness : But I no where remember that I ever said or writ , That the Life or Flesh of Christ within men is the Offering , the Atonement for sin . And if any can shew me any such Passage or Saying in any of my Books , I am most willing and ready to disown and retract it , and blame my Rashness in so saying ; but I know no such Passage in any of my Books . 4. In a Treatise of Oaths presented to the King and Parliament , 1675. recommended in a Preface to it , and the Reasons given in it , which Preface is signed by George Whithead , and William Penn , and Eleven more , and which Preface obligeth G. Whithead to confess that he owned the Contents of that Book at that time , otherwise he might be construed to put a Trick upon the whole Nation , it is expressly said , Page 17. N 7. We look upon it ( saith he and they ) to be no less than a presumptuous tempting of God , to summon him as a Witness , not only to our terrene but trivial business , such as we should doubtless account it an high Indignity always to sollicite an Earthly Prince to give his attendance about . What! make God , the Great God of Heaven and Earth our Caution in worldly Controversies ; as if we would bind him to obtain our ends , that is to make too bold with him , and to carry an undue distance in our minds towards him that made us ; an Irreverence we can by no means away with . But in flat Contradiction to this , there is an Epistle printed to the Friends called Quakers , within these few Weeks , in this present Year , 1696. that comes from the Meeting of Sufferings , signed by Benjamin Bealing , their Clerk to their Yearly Meeting . In which Epistle they say they give the Sense of Ancient Friends , George Fox , Edw. Burrough , Francis Hougel , W. Penn , and divers more , That Friends may use such solemn words , when called to declare the Truth , even in worldly matters , as , I do in the Presence of God declare , or calling God to record , or God is Witness . But if it be said that G. Whithead hath not signed that Epistle , so is not chargeable with that Contradiction ; I answer , So nor hath any other of the Ministry , not indeed any one but their Hireling Clerk : But it is well known that G. W. is a frequent Member of that Meeting of Sufferings , and hath been a main Instrument to persuade his Friends to give these Solemn Attestations , which he and many others ( I say not all ) judged unlawful , and forbidden by Christ , to use in cases of worldly affairs , as Recovery of just Debts , and the like . Nor will G. Whithead's hiding himself by not signing to this Epistle , and others concerned , but getting their Hireling Clerk to sign for them ( who for his Yearly Salary must do their Drudgery-Work ; and if fault be found afterwards with what is done , have this hole to creep out at , They did not sign it ) , be any Excuse for him or them , to clear them of such palpable Contradiction , or not varying from their former Principle . The only use I make of it , is to prove , That George Whitheaed ( as well as others of the Ancient Friends of the Ministry , have palpably contradicted their former Testimony , delivered in Print to King and Parliament , Anno 1675. and that in a very weighty matter ; and therefore they are not such infallible men as they have made their too credulous Followers think them to be , and have given out themselves for , charging all others to be no Ministers of Christ , if not infallible , as the above Narrative sheweth . But let none from this infer , that I blame them who in some weighty Cases , especially in declaring their Fidelity and faithful Subjection to the Government they are under , do use such solemn Attestations , or judge and condemn their liberty in so doing . But the Contradiction of George Whithead and some others to what they have formerly asserted very publickly , is that which I would have notified , and their great Hypocrisy still to pretend to Infallibility , and as if still they had never varied in their Principle in any thing ; and also charging G. K. with Apostacy , because I have declared . That in divers places and passages of my former Writings , I have found cause to make some Correction and Retractation ; God having been pleased of late years further to enlighten me , yet without any change of my Faith as to any one Article of the Christian Faith , so far as I know . Having done with G. Whithead at present , I shall next bring some two or three more unsound and scandalous Pass●ges for Proofs , out of William Penn's printed Books , to shew the unsoundness of his Doctrine in relation to Christ , his Flesh and his Bodily Existence without us in Heaven : And then take notice of some of his palpaple Contradictions to himself , though he would still make his credulous Followers ( that are much fewer than sometime ago they were ) believe he is the same infallible W. Penn. 1. In his Rejoinder to John Faldo , page 179 , 180. he greatly blames Sydrach Sympson , an Independent Preacher , for excommunicating Robert Norwood for his Opinion , which he , to wit , W. Penn himself , saith , Is not very offensive ; and he tells us what that Opinion is ; 1. For denying the Locality of Heaven and Hell , that is void of outward place , as looking upon them to have a more Spiritual signification ; and that the other was too Carnal , indeed Mahometan . 2. That he believed the Soul to have been breathed from God , thereby assigning to it more of Divinity than the usual Opinion doth . — Now that he saith this Ro. Norwood's Opinion is not very offensive , and so not to deserve Excommunication , it 's plain he thinks it not very offensive , to deny that Christ's Body that was raised from the dead , is in any Heaven , that is , an outward place , or without us ; which yet ( as I appeal to all sincere Christians ) is really so offensive , that the denying of that one Truth , is a plain denial of one of the greatest Fundamental Doctrines of the Christian Faith , and so makes void the whole , to any that holds such a damnable Opinion . And next , his excusing the said Robert Norwood , for assigning to the Soul something more of Divinity than the usual Opinion doth , is offensive and scandalous to Christian Ears : For though it should be owned , That the Divine Power that made the Soul of man , is in it , and operateth in it more manifestly than in the inferior Creatures ; yet the Soul of man is a created Being , and hath nothing of Divinity essential to it ; for that were to make it God himself . And whoever shall compare the Excommunication given out against Rob. Norwood by Sydrac Sympson , with the Excommunication given out against me by William Penn and Geo. Whithead at their Yearly Meeting , will say , if they be impartial men , William Penn has blamed that in another unjustly , which most unjustly he justifies in himself , and in his Tyrannical Brethren of his Party , who for no other cause did excommunicate me , but for not obeying their most unjust and unreasonable demand , which was , To clear the Body of the People called Quakers , and their Ministry , from some of the Errors charged upon them in Pensilvania ; which as I at that very Meeting told them , I could prove some of them were guilty of , and which I have since effectually done . And that William Penn thinks it was such a notable Argumentum ad hominem , that Rob. Norwood used to them who did excommunicate him , Are none the People of God but your selves ? Have not I the same Argumentum ad hominem , against them that excommunicated me ; who in their Nameless Bull of Excommunication , given out against me at the Yearly Meeting at London , 1695. call themselves the Church of Christ , from which ( they say ) I have separated my self ? And because I could not obey their most unjust and unreasonable Demand , they pass this Judgment against me , as if they were the only Church of Christ ; and in their Yearly Epistle this very year 1696. directed to the Quarterly and Monthly Meetings in England , Wales , and elsewhere , they call themselves ( to wit , those that generally go under the Name Quakors , professing Unity with them ) God's whole Heritage and People ; this agreeth with Solomon Eccles Paper , called , The Quakers Challenge , p. 2 , 3. 1668. The Quakers are in Truth , and none but they . The Tabernacle of God is with you , and his Dwelling Place is among you , and only among you is God known , said Edw. Burrough to the Quakers ; see his Works , page 64. 2. In the same Rejoinder , page 310. he hath a Passage that is either perfect Nonsense , or Antichristian Doctrine , or rather indeed both . I shall cite it verbatim . Seventhly , Because that Flesh of Christ is called a Vail , but he himself is within the Vail , which is the Holy of Holiest , whereinto Christ Jesus our High-Priest hath entred , Heb. 10.20 , 21. And as he descended into , and past through a suffering-state in his fleshly appearance , and returned into that state of Immortality , and Eternal Life and Glory , from whence he humbled himself , which was and is the Holy of Holiest ( then obscured or hid by his Flesh or Body , the Vail while in the world ) so must all know a death to their fleshly ways and Religions , yea their knowledge of Christ himself after the flesh , or they stick in the Vail , and never enter into the Holy of Holies , nor come to know him in any spiritual relation , as their High and Holy Priest , that abides therein . Annot. I shall make no large Commentary on these words , only in short note , 1. His saying Christ has entred into the Holy of Holies within the Vail , and that Vail is his Flesh , and that Holy of Holies is himself ; What Nonsense is this ? Was not Christ always in himself ? 2. His entring in within the Vail of his Flesh is either perfect Nonsense , or it hath this sense , That he hath put off his Body he had on earth , and is separated from it ; as one Robert Young , a Preacher among the Quakers in Pensilvania , at a Meeting affirmed , and brought these very words of W. Penn's to confirm it , That Christ hath entred within the Vail , and Christ's flesh is that Vail ; whereas it is plain , and generally understood by all Christians , That the Vail within which Christ is entred , according to Heb. 6.19 . is not his flesh ; though elsewhere , but in another respect , his flesh is called a Vail , the word Vail having divers significations in Scripture . 3. That he saith , That all must know a death to their knowledge of Christ after the flesh ; it is plain from his words , that he hath this unsound sense of it . That they must know a death to the knowledge of Christ after the flesh , as that flesh signifieth the flesh of Christ , as he came in the flesh . But this is a perversion of Paul's words , as if Paul had rejected the knowledge of Christ as he came and suffered in the flesh , as inconsistent with the revelation of Christ in himself ; which are so consistent , that as none have the saving knowledge of Christ as he came and suffered in the flesh , without the inward revelation of him in their hearts , so none have that inward revelation of him , sufficient to Eternal Salvation , but who by that inward revelation know and believe that he came and suffered in the flesh , and that he is now in Heaven , in the same Body that suffered , the same , I say , as to Substance , though wonderfully changed in Mann●r and Condition . 3. W P. in a Book he calleth Truth exalted , presented to Princes , Priests , and People , reprinted Anno 1671. he giveth a large description of the Quakers Christ , as he calleth him , pag. 13 , 14. without mentioning in the least his Birth in the flesh , Death , Resurrection , Ascension , as the Son of Man , or the Son of Abraham and David ; and wholly applying that , Isaiah 9.6 , 7. Unto us a child is born ; and Deut. ●1 . 18 A Prophet shall the Lord your God raise up , to the Inward Principle of the Light in all men ; and thus he describeth the Quakers Christ , pag. 14. This is the second Adam , the quickening Spirit , the Lord from Heaven , the new and spiritual man , the Heavenly Bread , the true Vine , the Flesh and Blood that was given for the Life of the World , the second Covenant , the Law writ in the Heart and Spirit ▪ put in the inward parts , the way in which the fool cannot err , the Truth before Deceit was , the Life that 's hid in God , eternal in the Heavens , glorified before the world began , the Power , the Wisdom , the Righteousness of God , the Plant of Renown , the Royal Seed that bruiseth the Serpent's head ; in short , that Grace which hath appeared unto all men , teaching them to deny Ungodliness , &c. Annot. By this it is plain he makes nothing of Christ , but an inward Principle in all men , which yet falsly he calls the second Covenant , the Law written in the heart ; for the Law writ in the heart , that is , the second Covenant , is not in any Unbelievers , but only in the hearts of True Believers . Again , in his large description of the Christian Quaker , filling Three Pages of his Folio called the Christian Quaker , he mentions not one word of Christ , as he was born of the Virgin , suffered death for our sins , rose again , &c. as the Object of Faith , Hope , or Love , or Christian Devotion ; see his Pages , 125 , 126 , 127. By which it plainly appears that he , and G Whithead , and many other Teachers among the Quakers , have no other Notion of Christ , but an Inward Principle ; which is manifestly contrary to the Gospel preached by the Holy Prophets , Evangelists , and Apostles , who preached Christ chiefly without men , as both God and Man , and consequentially his Light , and Grace , and Spirit within men . I shall now point at some of W. Penn's most gross and palpable Contradictions . 1. His first Contradiction . In the Treatise of Oaths above-mentioned , signed particularly by William Penn , he is earnest against all Oaths under the Gospel ; and yet in his Reason against Railing he useth the greatest Oath that ever was used among the Jews , to wit , As God liveth , or The Lord liveth ; which was the form of their Oath , as is clear from many places of Scripture , but particularly Jerem 4.2.5.2 . Now let us hear how he himself hath practically used this Oath against Thomas Hicks , pag. 180. O that these heavy things might not be laid to thy charge , for so sure as God liveth great will be the Wrath that shall follow , yea , God will visit for these unrighteous dealings ; and I testify to thee from God's Living Spirit , if thou desist not , and come not to deep Repentance , the Lord will make thee an Example of his Fury , and thy head shall not go down to the Grave in Peace ; and by this shalt thou know that not a Lying or Delusive , but a True and Infallible Spirit hath spoken by me . Annot. These words imply some Prophecy that W. Penn thought he had from the Infallible Spirit of God , against Tho. Hicks , importing he should be made an Example of his Fury : But they that saw Tho. Hicks dye , and knew him living , say , nothing of this was fulfilled , nor did any thing extraordinary , as any Example of Divine Fury happen to Tho. Hicks either before he died , or at his death . 2. His second Contradiction is this ; In the Book called Judas and the Jews , pag 13. owned and signed by W. Penn , he thus glosseth on Matth 18.17 . Go tell the Church , That Christ as well gave his Church Power to reject , as to try Spirits , is not hard to prove ; that Notable Passage , Go tell the Church , does it to our hand ; for if in case of private Offence betwixt Brethren , the Church is made Absolute Judge , from whom there is no Appeal in this world , how much more in any the least case that concerns the Nature , Being , Faith , and Worship of the Church her self ? Annot. This he spoke with respect to the Quakers Church , whose Power he so mightily extols , that she is made Absolute Judge , from whom there is no Appeal in this world . But having to do with the Church of England , or any other Church of them called Protestants , we shall see how he makes a contradictory Gloss on the same Text , Matth. 18.17 . Go tell the Church . In his Address to Protestants , second Edition , p. 152. he saith , But what then can be the meaning of Christ's words , Go tell the Church ? Very well , I answer , It 's not about Faith , but Injury , that Christ speaks ; and the place explains it self ; Moreover , If thy brother shall trespass against thee , go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone ; here is Wrong , not Religion ; Injustice , not Faith or Conscience concerned , as some would have it , to maintain their Church-Power . Annot. Here you see he makes the Church-Power very low as by Church he means the Church of England , or any other Church besides the Church of the Quakers . But when he means the Church of the Quakers from the same Text , he magnifies her Power as great as ever Bellarmine or any other Jesuit magnified the Church of Rome . She ( to wit , the Quakers Church , otherwise tell us what other Church he means ) is made Absolute Judge , from whom there is no Appeal in this world . Then be sure , if W. Penn can prevail to keep up this Authority in the Quakers Church , neither G Keith , nor any other against whom that he calleth the Church , to wit , the Yearly Meeting at London , hath passed any Sentence , however unjust , must expect to have any Relief or Redress in this world . Well , It is a great Comfort that we may expect it in the world to come . If this be not to play the Ambidexter ( a Crime T. Elwood unjustly casteth on me in another case ) I know not what is . 3. His Third Contradiction is this . In his Address to Protestants , second Edition , pag. 246. he saith , Men that are angry for God , passionate for Christ ▪ that can call Names for Religion , and sling Stones for Faith , may tell us they are Christians if they will , but no body would know them to be such by their fruits ; to be sure they are no Christians of Christ's making . Annot. One would think this man would be far from giving hard Names to any that differ from him in Religious Matters , and that he would be one of the civilest men on earth , for softly and gently treating his Opponents . But instead thereof , I know not if ever I read or heard more angry and passionate words , and more und●cent and unbecoming any man , either Christian or sober Heathen , than William Penn hath given to his Opponents , and such as he hath differed from in Religious Matters ; witness what he saith in his Guide mistaken , p. 18. 1668 The old Gormandizing Priests of England . — No sort of people have been so universally through Ages the Bane of Soul and Body of the Universe , as that abominable Tribe , for whom the Theatre of God's most dreadful Vengeance is reserved to act their eternal Tragedy upon Again , in his Quakerism a new Nickname , &c. p. 165. he saith , But in the earth there is not any thing so phant●stical , conceited , proud , railing , busy-body , and sometimes ignorant , as a sort of Priests , to us not unknown , among whom our Adversary ( viz. John Faldo , an Independent Preacher ) is not the least , who think their Coat will bear out their worst Expressions for Religion ; and practise an haughty Reviling for Christ , as one of the greatest demonstrations of their Zeal ; an Ill bred and Pedentick Crew , the Bane of Reason , and Pest of the World , the old Incendi●ries to mischief , and the best to be spared of Mankind ; against whom the boiling Vengeance of an irritated God is rea●ly to be poured out , to the destruction of such if they repent not , and turn from their abominable Deceits . Annot. Seeing the only Reason that was given at the Meeting at Turner's Hall the 11th of this Instant , 1696. by one of William Penn's Party , why they excommunicated George Keith , having nothing either against his Doctrine or Conversation among men , but that he was ( as he was pleased to call me ) a little petulant , and turbulent Man ; and that they have aggravated some few words I gave to some professed Infidels among us in Pensilvania , to that height , as deserving Excommunication : Let the Impartial Reader judge , whether W. Penn has not far exceeded me , and that incomparably , ( for I thank God I have not the faculty to invent such words ) as well as George Whithead hath also done , in calling some that but differed from him about Womens Meetings , and Church Orders of G. Fox Incarnate Devils , Wolves , Dogs , in his Preface to Judgment Fixed , 1682. Behold therefore their Injustice and Partiality , for when did they ever so much as censure either of them for such scurrilous , abusive Language , or any others that have used the like ? Nay , of all people on the face of the Earth , many of the Preachers and Writers among the Quakers , that I know of , have been most guilty in this thing , and doubled this guiltiness in fathering these sinful Words , and their sinful Passion on the Spirit of God , as W. Penn did , when he called me Apostate , and Impostor , for defending Christian Doctrine common to all Christendom , saying , He was transported by the Glorious Power of God. For my own part , wherein I have at any time either in word or Writ exceeded in giving any uncharitable Names to any , or in any uncharitable practise or behaviour , I declare I am sorry for it , and have begged , and do beg God's forgiveness for it , for his dear Son's sake , and also the forgiveness of any whom I have at any time justly offended in Words or behaviour ; and I bless God , who has taught me more patience by the late Exercises I have gone through of the strife of Tongues ; and I hope I can in measure say , that I witness that place of Scripture fulfilled , That tribulation worketh patience , and patience experience ; and this I have divers times acknowledged to my late Adversaries , who have made ill use of it against me , but I never knew they made any such acknowledgment to any , I am sure never to me , whom they have most unworthily abused both by Word and Pen. And now before I have quite done with William Penn , let me put him in mind of his Promise , That he would answer me in the face of the Nation ; for I think I have made good my word , that I have put him to prove his Charge against me ( that I am an Apostate ) in the face of the Nation ; and let him not put off this Work that belongs to himself , to any Deputy , or busy Intruder , as Th. Elwood , or John Pennington , who have already sufficiently shewn their folly in print ; but let him perform his Promise by himself , and also remind his words in his Christian Quaker , pag. 1. who saith , I was not willing that any should answer for my faults , if any there were ; and if innocent , I osteemed my self both sufficient and obliged to my own relief . Some of Tho. Elwood his Vile and Gross Errors ; truly collected out of his Book , falsly called , Truth Defended . I Shall pass by at present his many Forgeries , and Perversions , and Abuses against me in this his last Book , and his two former Books ; to the first of which I have answered in print , having collected out of his two last Abusive Books above an hundred manifest Perversions , Forgeries , and Falsities he hath heaped up against me , which I have in readiness to shew , and which I keep by me for a reserve , until I find an occasion to publish them , either by print , or otherwise ; therefore I shall only now make an Index of some of his Vile and Gross Errors contained in his last Book , called Truth Defended . 1. The Blood that came out of Christ's Side , its shedding , was not done to compleat the Offering , because , before that , Christ said , Consummatum est , it is finished , p. 99. Note , this is as much against his Death , for before his Death he said , it is finished . 2. He justifies George Whithead's Doctrine and Words , denying that the material Blood of the Beasts were Types of Christ's material Blood , and yet fallaciously seems to own it , p. 106. 3. He justifies W ▪ Penn's Doctrine ; saying , The one Seed cannot be an outward thing ; for one outward thing cannot be the proper sign of another outward thing ; p. 113. 4. He denieth that the gift of the Divine Grace or Power within , is the real Purchase of Christ's Obedience unto death ; arguing , That if so , that would not be the free Gift of God , p. 121. This is contrary to Rom. 5.15 . Eph. 1.14 . and 4.7 , 8 compared with Psal . 68.18 . 5. He blames me for saying Christ's Body is the same in substance it was on Earth , p. 129. now if not the same in substance , then that Body he had on Earth is not in being , or he must hold the Doctrine of Transubstantiation in that case . 6. He denieth that Christ came by Generation of , and from the Properties of Man in Mary , p. 136. and in so doing , he must deny him to be the Son of David and Abraham . 7. He perverteth the Apostle's Creed , in that Clause ; Conceived of the Holy Ghost , p. 138. by which he infers , that Christ came not by Generation of ▪ and from the Properties of Man in Mary ; and in so doing , he makes the Holy Ghost to be the material Cause of that Generation ; as if that Holy Thing conceived , were of the Substance of the Holy Ghost ; whereas the Holy Ghost was the efficient Cause thereof , but not the material Cause . 8. His false way of reasoning against the Man Christ's being created , from my reasoning , if not created , therefore not Man ; by retorting , if created , therefore not God ; and in this he chargeth me to be deeply drenched into Socinianism , but this is his ignorance . This is as foolish as to argue , A. B. is no English Man , therefore is no Man ; whereas it is good arguing , A. B. is no Man , therefore no English Man ; the Socinian Error is not , that Christ is a Creature , but that he is a meer Creature , viz. only Man , and not both God and Man , p. 139. 9. His blaming me , to make light of the work of Generation in comparison of Christ's Incarnation ; therefore according to him , Regeneration is greater than Christ's Incarnation . Oh great Blasphemy ! pag. 155. 10. His saying , That the Author of Regeneration is Christ chiefly , as he is manifested inwardly in the heart , p. 152. This is as absurd , as to say , The Beams of the Sun that descend on the Earth , are the chief cause of the Earth's fruitfulness , and not the Sun it self that is in the Firmament . My answer to John Pennington's Book , falsly called , An Apostate Exposed : In his said Book he brings no matter against me , either as to Doctrine or Life ; but sets down some Citations out of my Books , and the Doctrine in all these Citations I own . But that I thought it had been the Doctrine of the Quakers in general , and of George Whithead and William Penn in particular ; in that I own my mistake ; but this is no contradiction , or proof of my Apostacy ; for I did not positively say , they had no Errors , but according to the best of my knowledge they had no Errors ; this is no contradiction ; for Contradictions ( according to that true Maxim ) are secundum idem , ad idem eodem loco , tempore & ratione . But he hath not so much either Logick or common Sense to understand , that this is no contradiction , or what a true Contradiction is , as neither his quondam Tutor Tho. Elwood hath . As concerning Caleb Pusey his Book , falsly called , His Modest Account ; I have a full Answer to it in readiness , but there is no present need of its publication . But let it be noticed , that my Adversaries have owned it , as having unity with it ; and no doubt it was approved by the 2d Days meeting . I only at present note these few gross things in it . First , He mis-states the Question , which was not , That the Light within is sufficient for Salvation , without something else ; for the Light within , or Grace within Paul and Peter , &c. is sufficient to Salvation , without thousands of some things else , as without thousands of Caleb Puseys , and all of us ; but not without the Man Christ without us . But the true state of the Question was , and is , That whereas they blamed my Assertion , viz. The Light within is not sufficient to Salvation , without something else . They are obliged to hold the Contradictory , which is , The Light within is sufficient to Salvation , without any , or every thing else ; true Contradictions being betwixt the one Particular , the other Universal ; but it hath been my Lot to have to do generally with such ignorant Men of late in dispute , that know not either by true Logick or common Sense , what a true Contradiction is . 2. Page 8. His false quotation of my words , citing my Book called ▪ A Refutation , pag ▪ 38 , 39. where he brings me in saying , It is a real degree of Blasphemy to say , This Light cannot make Satisfaction , &c. But I use no such words , therefore this is a gross Forgery , which I charge upon the Second day's Meeting ; for in all that Treatise I neither said nor intented any thing of the Light within making Satisfaction ; for the Question there treated of by me , was not about Satisfaction , but Revelation , what the Light within could reveal . And I was so far from affirming , the Light within , as we give Obedience to it , to make any Satisfaction for our sins , that I plainly said , pag. 41. ad finem , That man's most exact Obedience to the Light in him , cannot be an Atonement or Propitiation unto God for sins past or present . 3. His Fallacy or Forgery , pag. 12. in feigning a Contradiction on me , concerning the express Knowledge of Christ , necessary , and not necessary ; whereas I never said it was universally necessary , but only to such who have the occasion to hear it preach'd ; therefore I distinguished betwixt the Express and Implicit , saying this last was universally necessary , the former only to Particulars . 4. Pag. 15. His most gross Assertion , which is justly charged on the Second day's Meeting ( who have approved his Antichristian Book ) , That surely Jesus of Nazareth cannot be something else than the Light , Spirit , and Power within : For at this rate the Jews who own and confess to the Light within , and Pagan Philosophers who blasphemed against the Man Jesus of Nazareth , yet confessing to the Light within , may be said to confess Jesus of Nazareth ; and if Jesus of Nazareth be not something else than the Light within , then it is in vain to preach any Christ without , that was born at Bethlehem , and conversed at Nazareth . But he is guilty of gross Forgery , to infer it from my words : He says , pag. 14. The Word only is alone , and admits of nothing else ; but I answer , It admits not of another Christ , but it admits of something of Christ without us , that is not within us ; as Christ that died for us is the only Saviour ; this only admits not of another Saviour , or Christ , within us , yet it admits of something of Christ within us , that was not outwardly crucified , viz. His Grace and Spirit . As concerning the pretended Confession of Faith , called , Our Ancient Testimony renewed , of our Adversaries from Pensilvania , subscribed by Caleb Pusey , and above Thirty six more , though the Scripture-Words as therein recited , we own , yet seeing they ( and particularly he ) who have differed from us in Pensilvania , have declared a contrary sense to all these Places of Scripture touching the things in Controversy betwixt us , and have neither in that Confession , nor elsewhere , renounced their former Errors , whereof they have been proved guilty , their Confession is but a mere Sham , and Mock-Confession . G. K. ERRATA . Page 17. line 7. for Days read Words . Page 48. line 44. read clear me . A Sermon preached at the Meeting of Protestant Dissenters , called Quakers , in Turners-Hall , London ; on the 16 th . of the Second Month , 1696. Being the Publick Day of Thanksgiving for the Deliverance of the King and Kingdom . By George Keith . To which is added , A Testimony of Fidelity and Subjection to King William the Third , from the aforesaid People , on behalf of themselves , and others of the same Persuasion with them . Printed for B. Aylmer at the Three Pigeons in Cornhill . THE General History of the Quakers ; containing the Lives , Tenents , Sufferings , Tryals , Speeches , Letters , and Travels , of all the most Eminent Quakers , both Men and Women , from the first Rise of that Sect , down to this present time . Collected from Manuscripts , &c. A Work never attempted before in English ; being written originally in Latin by Gerard Croese , and now made publick against their present Yearly Meeting in London . To which is added , Fox's Conference with Oliver Cromwell . The Tryals and dying Speeches of the Quakers executed in New-England . An Account of their Marriages and Burials . A Quaker's Letter to King Charles II. charging him with several vile Practices . Keith's Learned Speech at his Tryal in Pensilvania . The Tryals of Mead and Pen. Pen's Speech to the Judges . His Conference with the Princess Palatine . His Sermon before Her. The Princess's Letter to Geo. Fox . Margaret Fox's Letter to a General Meeting of Women , held at London in the year 1692. A very particular Account of the Women Preachers . Hester Bidly's Speech to the late Queen Mary . Her Entertainment at Versailles by King James . Her Letter to the French King. Her Discourses with him . The great Sufferings of two Quaker Women in the Island Malta . The Rarity of Mary Fisher's Voyage to Adrianople . The Audience given this Maiden Quaker by the Grand Signior . The Present State of the Quakers . As also a Letter writ by George Keith , and sent by him to the Reverend Author of this Book ; containing a Vindication of himself , and several Remarks upon this curious History . Price Bound 5 s. Printed for John Dunton at the Raven in Jewen-Street . Notes, typically marginal, from the original text Notes for div A47140-e2080 † Note , There is an additional Postscript by me G. K. put to this Book of G. W. Nature of Christianity , the which Postscript I left in a Manuscript at London , and with the Quakers , printed with this of G. W. I acknowledg my want of due Consideration that I did not better consider G. W. his Words in that Book , having many Years ago read it , but too overly , and not having seen it since , for many Years , till of late : but I am sure I did really then believe , ( as I now do ) that Christ as Man did outwardly and bodily exist without us ; for Proof of which see my Words in that additional Postscript above-mentioned , p. 73. where at n. 11. I blame R. G. for saying , That the now present glorified Existence of that Body ( or Man Christ ) that suffered at Jerusalem , is denied by some Teachers among us . I confess I happened to find divers Passages in G. W.'s , and other Quakers Books , that seemed to me unsound ; but in an Excess of Charity I did construe them to be better meant than worded , and that they had rather unwarily slipped from them , than that they were the Expressions of their unsound Mind , until that of late I had found them to justify the same , and the like unsound Words , in my Adversaries in Pensilvania , and to hate and excommunicate me for telling them of them . * And by this same Argument they need not preach his Example of holy Life , nor the Example of the holy Lives of the Patriarchs , Prophets and Apostles , nor the Creation of the World , nor any of God's gracious Providences towards his Church and People in former Ages , they all being past , and Persons not to live again in Mortal Bodies . But why do the Quakers labour to keep up the the Remembrance of their deceased Friends , and their Works and Sayings , and collect them in Print for Posterity ? Is not the keeping in Memory the Birth , Life , Death and Resurrection , &c. of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ infinitely of more Value to be remembred ? and what is the way to have it remembred ( according to God's ordinary manner of working ) if not by preaching ? O what great Blindness and Ignorance is this of W. Penns ! * See his and my Answer to the Students in Aberdeer , called Quakerism confirmed , in the Collection of his Works , called , Truth triumphant , pag. 627. Prop. 3. we say , That the same Seed and Life is in us which was in him , ( viz. the Man Christ ) and is in him in the Fulness , as Water in the Spring , and in us as the Stream . — As the natural Life is in all the Members , but more principally in the Head and Heart , without any Division ; so this spiritual Life and Nature is both in Christ our Head , and in us , by which he dwelleth in us , as the Spirit of Man doth in the Body . Again , p. 628. Prop. 10. As for the Satisfaction of Chritst without us , we own it against the Socinians , &c. And pag. 629. The Doctrines of the Incarnation , Sufferings , Death and Resurrection of Christ , &c. are necessary every where to be preached : See the Places at more length , than which nothing can be more contradictory than W. Penn's Doctrine , as will appear in divers Places in this Treatise , from his own Words faithfully quoted out of his Books . ‖ This Writer is J. Reuclinus de verbo mirifico , lib. 3. cap. 2. Gal. 3.16 . ‖ But is not the Serpent or Devil without Men as well as within many Men ? (a) See W. Penn's Rejoynder , pag. 284. And G. W. Light and Life , p. 44. (b) See his Book , pag. 35. called , The Capital Principles . (c) It is no more Nonsense than many good Christian Teachers have used , to expound and open the Types of the Old Testament , and to shew how they directed to Christ , the Antitype ; yea , divers Quakers Preach the Types as directing to Christ and his Spirit within : And G. Fox used much to Preach upon the Types of the Old Testament , as the Booths they made at the Feast of Tabernacles , and the Lamps in the Temple , and the Snuffers , how they had a Spiritual signification . And shall any Christian say , that none of these Types signified Christ without , but only Christ within ? (d) See for this in the Church-History of Socrates Scholasticus , lib. 2. c. 7. and c. 25. (e) Note , The Meeting was for most part orderly and attentive ; if any little Disorder happened , it was by occasion of W. Pen's Party , and particularly by Henry Goldney that threw printed Papers among the People , in the Meeting , on purpose to make a Disturbance ; but what Disturbance happened , it was soon ended by the Care and Diligence of the Marshal , sent by the Lord Mayor , to prevent any Disorders . (f) Note here two Gods of one Kind and Nature , by his absurd Logick and false Philosophy ; one that worketh , another that is wrought . Oh gross Darkness and Ignorance in G. Whitehead ! (g) The Saints are partakers of the Divine Nature , and so are they of the Holy Ghost ; is therefore the Holy Ghost a Work or Effect wrought in us ? This is to comfound the Creator with the Creature , and is a Divinity more fit for Bedlam than any sober Society of People . (h) And in Egypt we hear that Chickens are bred of Eggs simply by heat , without the Hen. (i) N. Marks doth not profess himself to be Infallible , being not of the Ministry : But whence is it , that the Laicks should own themselves Fallible , and the Min●stry Infallible ? But at last it is come to this , that some of the Ministry are Fallible also , but such Principal Ministers as G. W. are not . (a) Tho some in Scotland , being influenced with their false reports , have seemed to disown me , yet others have not , and some of them have writ kindly to me , and owned me . (a) Arthur Cook a Preacher and Justice of Peace in Pensilvania . (b) Too high a Title for such who are quilty of such gross Errors . (c) The third was , 〈◊〉 they blamed me , for saying the best Saints had need to come alwa●s to God by the 〈◊〉 ●or the Man Christ Jesus , they said , They could come to God with●ut him , and this 〈◊〉 of Doctrine is to be found in W. Shewen's Book , a Quaker greatly owned by them . Treatise of Thoughts , see pag. 37.38 . (a) And I was cleared by a publick Writ , signed by the Deputy Governor , C. Markham , and the Counsel , in Philadelphia , which I have to show . See the Nature of Ch. pag. 29. * The real Quaker . A real Protestant . Nature of Christian . p. 29 * G. Keith doth not charge it on the whole , but only on the Guilty , and such as cloak and excuse them . * Note , They told me , It was sufficient to name a Few of Many , to prove T. E. guilty of wronging me in his Books . Let the Quotations be read out of R. B's Anarc . * There is not mentioned , any Day , Month or Year wherein the yearly Meeting at Philad . was held . (a) Note , W. Penn ( as is proved ) hath said , We need not preach it , the necessary consequence whereof is , They need not believe it . (b) So nor have they answer'd my Book , Gross Error and Hypocrisie detected ; nor my Book against Samuel Jennings . So here are Two for Two : But I think I have effectually answer'd them here , as to the main , and so , I hope , will many others judge . (c) I call it not G. Keith's Church , otherwise than as related to them as one of them ; as I call the other their Church , N. Mark 's Church , i. e. to which he is related ; but he did well to own his Fallibility , seeing he gave so great a Proof of it not long ago , by severely accusing a poor innocent Maid-servant of his of Theft , whose Innocency soon after was manifest to him . Notes for div A47140-e19540 * Called the Christian Faith.