Christianity vindicated, or, The fundamental truths of the Gospel concerning the person of Christ and redemption through faith in him maintained against the cavils and groundless exceptions of Andrew Robeson and George Keith, Gawen Lawrie and George White-head, who are called by the name Quakers : being a reply to a book published by these men in opposition unto a book intituled A testimony to the true saviour / by Robert Gordon. Gordon, Robert, fl. 1669-1675. 1671 Approx. 148 KB of XML-encoded text transcribed from 28 1-bit group-IV TIFF page images. Text Creation Partnership, Ann Arbor, MI ; Oxford (UK) : 2005-12 (EEBO-TCP Phase 1). A41562 Wing G1290 ESTC R26773 09538427 ocm 09538427 43551 This keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the Early English Books Online Text Creation Partnership. This Phase I text is available for reuse, according to the terms of Creative Commons 0 1.0 Universal . The text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. Early English books online. (EEBO-TCP ; phase 1, no. A41562) Transcribed from: (Early English Books Online ; image set 43551) Images scanned from microfilm: (Early English books, 1641-1700 ; 1331:44) Christianity vindicated, or, The fundamental truths of the Gospel concerning the person of Christ and redemption through faith in him maintained against the cavils and groundless exceptions of Andrew Robeson and George Keith, Gawen Lawrie and George White-head, who are called by the name Quakers : being a reply to a book published by these men in opposition unto a book intituled A testimony to the true saviour / by Robert Gordon. Gordon, Robert, fl. 1669-1675. [3], 48 p. Printed for Robert Boulter, London : 1671. Gordon's defence of his A testimony to the true saviour. Reproduction of original in the Bodleian Library. 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Society of Friends -- Controversial literature. 2005-05 TCP Assigned for keying and markup 2005-05 Aptara Keyed and coded from ProQuest page images 2005-07 Judith Siefring Sampled and proofread 2005-07 Judith Siefring Text and markup reviewed and edited 2005-10 pfs Batch review (QC) and XML conversion Christianity Vindicated : OR , The Fundamental Truths of the Gospel concerning the Person of Christ , and Redemption through Faith in Him , maintained , AGAINST The Cavils and Groundless Exceptions of Andrew Robeson , and George Keith , Gawen Lawrie , and George White-head , Who are called by the Name of Quakers . BEING A Reply to a Book published by these Men in Opposition unto a Book , Intituled , A Testimony to the true Saviour . By ROBERT GORDON , Author of the said Testimony . 1 Tim. 4. 1 , 2. But the Spirit speaketh expresly , that in the latter times some shall depart from the Faith , giving heed to seducing spirits — speaking lyes in hypocricie . — 1 John 4. 1. 3. Believe not every spirit — for — every spirit that confesseth not , that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh , is not of God. — 1 John 2. 22. Who is a Lyer ? But he that denyeth that Jesus is the Christ , he is the Antichrist . John 20. 31. But these things are written , that ye might believe , that Jesus is the Christ , the Son of God , and that believing ye might have life through him . LONDON , Printed for Robert Boulter , at the Turks-head in Cornhill , near the Royal Exchange . 1671. THE PREFACE TO THE Christian Reader . HAving lately published a Book , intituled , A Testimony to the true Saviour ; the tendency whereof was , to bear witness in these latter and dangerous times , ( as concurring with , and consenting unto the voices of all the Prophets and Apostles in the dayes of old ) To the man Christ Jesus of Nazareth , as the Lords Christ , and our only Saviour ; And unto reconciliation , justification and redemption , as already in being in him , purchased , compleated and perfected with God for sinners , by the price of his whole , intire and perfect obedience to his Fathers will in his crueified body without us ; to be made effectual by the workings and operations of his Spirit in all such , who through faith in him receive that attonement : And hence rejecting the errours which tend to the darkening or denying of those blessed truths , so plainly testified unto in the holy Scriptures , among whomsoever they were lodged without reflection upon any persons or people whatsoever . The great opposition and contradiction raised against this my Testimony , and the reproach thrown upon me because of it , fully satisfies me , that a publick Testifying unto those truths was and is both seasonable and necessary . A faithful account of the exceptions brought by these Four Men against this Doctrine of Christianity , and therewith of the Principles of truth testified unto in the holy Scriptures by the Prophets and Apostles , whereby may be seen their agreement or difference with each other , is the matter in this following Discourse ; where I do invite the Reader to be no farther concerned , then as be is a Christian . If their Book in answer to my said Testimony , intituled by them , The light of truth triumphing hath or shall come to thy view , judge not of it by its fair title ; the nature of things doth not alwayes answer the names or inscriptions put upon them ; Hereticks of old have named themselves Orthodox ; there is nothing more common then for men to adora errours with the robes of truth , and to deform truth with the rags of errours : Therefore I would not have thee judge the better of these mens Doctrine , because they have named it , Light of truth triumphing ; Or the worse of what is asserted in my late Testimony , because of the black mark of darkness , ignorance , errour and envy , they have branded it with . Wonder not that in these last times even Christianity it self in its very foundation ( the Person of our Lord Jesus , who is that Rock upon whom it is built , and faith in him as being the Son of Man now bodily glorified without us ) is struck at and denied ; and that among us in these Nations , where so many years He as Saviour , and faith in him for Salvation , hath been openly owned and professed : Which as it may be looked-upon as a just rebuke from the Lord against such among us , who having long professed him in words , yet have and do deny him in their conversations : So it is also no less then what was plainly foretold by the Holy Apostles to come to pass in the last times , to wit , that some should depart from the faith , even denying the Lord that bought them ; and that many should follow their pernicious waies . And although these men who have thus appeared against my Testimony to the true Saviour , are called by the name of Quakers , as reckoning themselves of that Sect or Company , yet let it not be so looked upon , as if there were not many among those people , who ( not knowing these depths of Satan as they speak ) are not in their understandings intangled in these errours ; and therefore every one being to give an account for himself of his own faith , we are in charity no farther to determine upon persons among that people , as carried away in this Apostacy from the faith as it was once delivered to the Saints , then as they acknowledge and own it to be so , each for himself : But that there are some pretending to be Teachers among them , and some others also , making a fair shew , under the disguise of the names of Light and power within , thereby bringing in damnable errours to pervert the faith of some , is too too manifest ; among whom these Four Men have numbred themselves , by this their voluntary opposition they have raised of their own accord against the plain truth , left to us upon record by the Prophets and Apostles , and Testified unto by me ; Against whom I own no other opposition , then in and by the Spirit and Doctrine of Truth to stop the mouthes of these and such gain-sayers . Not any delight I have in re-joynders of this kind , hath led me thus forth to take notice of these mens exceptions against the truth ; But their wresting and misapplying the words of the Holy Men of Old recorded in the Scriptures , and jumbling the truths distinctly testified unto in them , thereby among simple people to deface and darken the truth published by the Apostles , and asserted by me , by forcing them to appear as a heap of confusion and contradiction , and there openly charging me as smiting in the dark , and as it were daring me to speak more particularly , hath forced and constrained m● , for the very Truths sake , to this reply ; & therein to name the very books wherein and by whom these errours are asserted as truth ; that I might vindicate my Testimony to the blessed mystery of Christ crucified ; against these , and such opposers , so far as they appear against that mystery testifyed unto , in it ; And that by removing all their exceptions against the truth , I might in my measure assert and justifie the blessed harmony which is betwixt the perfect redemption that is already finished in Christ Jesus for us ; and the revelation of Him in us , against unbelievers in this age ; who judging of this mystery by the reason of man , cry out , Confusion , contradiction , how can these things be so ? And that such who through these and such mens fair , and high pretences ( who are really mighty to deceive ) are apt to be turned aside from the truth as it is in Jesus , might discern this mystery of iniquity in its root and tendency , so far differing from , and contrary unto the Doctrine of the Prophets and Apostles . After perusal of this following discourse , judge impartially between me and these men according to the Scriptures of truth , and that doctrine , theirs or mine , which is most agreeable thereunto , let it be received , and let the other for ever be rejected . And so farewell . R. G. ANDREW ROBESON . I Begin with thee as being the first man I meet with of this four-fold combination against a plain Testimony to the true Saviour ; and thou enters upon this work , as if through high swelling words , thou couldest at the very first dash overthrow the whole bost of Israel , to wit , the voices of all the Propbets and Apostles in this matter ; and being thus puffed up with thy aiery notions , and drunk with the conceit of thy own abilities , thou reckons another as bewildred and reeling , who stands upon that rock against which the powers of darkness cannot prevail , and thou in vain kicks . The first thing I take notice of , is , that thou chargest me as fighting against the light of truth ; and afterward that my words speaking of Christ as having the iniquities of us all in his own body upon the tree , verge nigh to blasphemy ; and that in effect I make Christ as spiritually within us an allegory ; all which I only mention to let the impartial . Reader see how forward thou art to cavil , and what little reason thou hast for it , from my words . The next thing I mark , is this , thou tellest me , — that I seem to take it for granted , that the Quakers deny that body that suffered at Jerusalem — But I do require thee to point to me in what page of my Book , thou couldest find any ground to fasten this charge upon me , having not so much as mentioned that people in all my Book : But thou having forged this , thou strengthens it with another of its own kind , saying of me — That I labour to prove the existence of that body in the day of its service ; — a matter not so much as intended by me ; but supposing that as a truth already received , I asserted in the express words of the Apostle , that Jesus Christ of Nazareth , a man approved of God among the people was , and now is the true Christ and our only Saviour : and hence I rejected that Doctrine among whomsoever it was lodged , as another then that already delivered by the Apostles , to wit , that he [ the God-head only ] that was manifest in that body of flesh is he , the true and only Christ , and the light in every man that comes into the world , as it is manifest in every man , is he the same Christ , and so as in him , so in every man ; GOD MANIFEST IN THE FLESH : Thus while thou pretends to be astonished , to find me ( as thou saiest ) cudgelling down my own shadow , thou thy self art not ashamed to be found plainly so doing , even then when thou dost forge it against me . And next as if thou were got off with flying Colours , — thou dares me and all men upon earth to prove that ever the Quakers denied the existence of that body in the day of its service : — My soul hates this deceitful shifting the matter in Question ; It is very like that you do believe that there was such a man , who ( as Histories mention ) suffered death at Jerusalem about sixteen hundred years agoe , and so do the Turks and Jewes ; yet seeing thou puts me to it , let me ask thee this question , What means these and such like words from among you concerning that body ? — how can we tell there was ever such a man , we were not then living , we have nothing but our faith for it ? — Mark the tendencie of those words ; however hadst thou dared me to prove , that the now-present , glorified existence of that bodie that suffered at Jerusalem is denied by some Teachers , yea , even among that people : then I could have told thee ( and it is commonly delivered as truth among you ) that they have asserted , that Christ hath no other body then his Church what a ▪ Monster , one head and two bodies : nay , look over the exceptions of thy partner G. L. against my Testimony , and thou wilt there find him plainly ▪ confessing this thing , asserting that it is contrary to the Scriptures , to say of the child born according to the flesh , ( to wit , Jesus Christ the Son of Mary , whom old Simeon had in his arms ] there should be no end of his Government , for he suffered death : so that according to this doctrine , the death of the man Christ Jesus , who was born of Mary , called the Son of man , hath put an end to his Government , and thence to his now present , glorified , bodily existence ; though our Lord himself said of himself , even since his being ascended and glorified , I am Jesus of Nazareth ; plainly affirming the now present existence of Jesus of Nazareth , the Son of man ; according to that which he foretold of himself , Matth. 24. 30. And they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of Heaven with power and great glory . Next thou expressest thy self to me in these words , — I take notice of thy acknowledgment , that the manifestation of God in the flesh of Christ was that whereby way might be opened for the ministration of the other mystery , Christ within us , separating them , and making the one subservient to the other ; and yet after runs against it in the whole Scope of thy work . — I answer , I have not otherwise spoken of these two Gospel-mysteries then as they are testified unto in the holy Scriptures ; so that I have not divided them , but declared of them all along my Book , as joyntly concurring together as necessary to us , yet in their order ; not confusedly jumbling them together , or making the Gospel-distinction of them appear as opposites , and so as contradictory to each other ; as doth thy partner G. W. But I have distinguished them according to the order and method of the Gospel , the first as wrought in Christ our Head for us , the last as to be wrought by Christ in us ; the first as the ground and cause , the second as the consequence and effect ; the first as in the one crucified body of Christ , finished and perfected at once , by that one attonement and propitiatory Sacrifice once offered for sins without the gates of Jerusalem , the second as in our bodies , or in us , who through faith in him receive that attonement , so daily doing , and in many bodies till mortalitie be swallowed up of life : And that this is the scope and tendencie of my Book is sufficiently manifest , only thou hast a mind to pick a quarrel where there is no just ground . In the latter end of the 1. Page , thou brings in some of my words , torn from the sentence they relate to , and then thou tells me , that it is contrary to the Scriptures , and to my self within a few lines ; and thus hath thy partners also dealt with me : For clearing whereof , I refer the Reader to my own words in those places of my Book where they are mentioned , as too long here to be repeated : And to you as brethren in this iniquity , I say , might not such as your selves deal so with the Scriptures of Truth with the like out-cry ; and if so , could it be reckoned less then a piece of deceit , and it is the same in you to deal so with my words : And I leave it with the impartial Reader to be considered , whether it be equal dealing among men , that while G. W. in the 13. Page of his Part chargeth it upon me , as injurious , disingenious , and false in not giving a true account of the Principles of the Quakers , which I undertook not , and therefore I did not so much as mention that people ; that even in that same Book these men should deal so with my words , in not giving a true account of what they plainly express , though they have of their own accord taken it upon themselves to answer it : But what answer can rationally be expected from these men , who have not been so honest as to represent faithfully what I really and plainly published in that Testimony ? The next thing I observe , is , where thou clamours after this manner ; — what ! Christ a propitiation for the sins of the whole world , past , present , and to come , and yet a generation pleading faith in it , and not sheltered from the wrath of the Father thereby ; what incongruous work is this ? — I answer , the one propitiatory sacrifice of the body of Christ ; is not the less sufficient in it self , to have been a propitiation for the sins of the whole world ; and so to have sheltered even all mankind from the wrath of the Father ; Gods love , and this great propitiation set forth by him , was large enough even for this though it prove not so to unbelievers and hypocrites . The Apostle spoke truth , 1 John 2. 2. of Jesus Christ the righteous , he is a propitiation for the sins of the whole world ; and our Lord also spoke truth of himself , John 3. 36. He that believes not the wrath of the Father abides on him ; and in effect I have expressed no more then what those Scriptures holds forth . Hence I say , who but one like thy self , who dares even call the Scriptures themselves contradictory , durst thus boldly reckon this doctrine of Christ and his Apostle incongruous ? In the end of the 2 : Page , repeating some of my words , thou tels me ▪ — there is a supposition and question of thy own forming , and then presently thou concludes it a doctrine of some others ; and then thou adds , it is a smiting of the Quakers in the dark : — I answer , I did not assert that supposition and question to be a doctrine maintained by some others ; but I proposed them as necessary consequences of a Doctrine a little before mentioned in that part of my Book ; to wit , of that doctrine which asserts , — that redemption is not of sinners that delight in sin , but of a light or seed within , to be raised and redeemed within ▪ to which the promise of redemption is ; which seed is the seed of Abraham to whom the promise is , which Jesus Christ takes upon him after the flesh : — A Doctrine mentioned in a Book , often printed and published by and among you , called , Love to the Lost , pa. 46. 47 , 48. But that which thou dares not meddle with , lest thy speech should bewray thee ; now I offer it to the understanding Reader , whether this question may not pertinently be proposed to the maintainters of that Doctrine . — Is the Seed or Christ within , so under condemnation and the Curse , that he needs to be redeemed therefrom ? and if this Seed or Christ be not saved in every man , doth it remain in some for ever under condemnation ? Thy Partner G. K. in the 16. Page , answers thus , — We say indeed that the Seed suffers under fin , and is to be raised from under it ; yet the soul , yea , and the whole man is also to be saved within ; but the seed is not for ever under condemnation ; for though for a time it suffers , yet in the time appointed of God , it is raised up in all , yea , in the most ungodly to minister in them wrath without mercy . — This Doctrine G. K. asserts , but it agreeth not with the Scriptures , speaking thus , That Christ died for sinners , the whole need not the Physitian but the sick ; for a good man one may even dare to die , but Christ died for the ungodly ; By what Scripture can he prove that Christ died for a seed in man , which needed redemption , which seed is Christ in every man , and that Christ suffers under sin in every man , and is to be raised from under it ? for if so , he came to redeem himself in every man , who never consented to sin ; so not the man , the sinner that was under condemnation and the curse , and delighted in sin : But consider the words of Isay , Isa . 53. 6. We all like sheep have gone astray , we have turned every one to his own way , and the Lord hath laid upon him the iniquity of us all ; and this Peter testifieth , 1. Ep. 2. 24. He who did no sin , his own self bare our sins in his own body on the Tree ; how expresly doth these Scriptures refute that assertion of G. K. neither can he show any Scripture to prove that the man Jesus Christ doth bear our sins , but as he did bear them in his crucified body when he suffered for us , the just for the unjust ; of which I shall write more fully in answer to G. K. his part . And whereas he saith , The Seed is raised in the most ungodly in Gods appointed time , to minister wrath in them without mercy ; he should have expressed himself whether he understands by ungodly , men and women ; and whether this Seed , which he calls Christ , or this ministration of wrath raised in them without mercy , be after their bodily death ? for if so , the worm in Devils and damned persons that never dieth , is Christ in them ; G. K. should prove this confused Doctrine of his , by the Scriptures , or keep it to himself . And since he saith , the Soul is also to be saved within , and the whole man ; what an imperfect account doth he express in this matter ? as if the full and compleat redemption and salvation purchased by Christ , and in hope waited for by believers , were only a salvation or a being saved from sin within ; wherein he is reproved by the Apostle , Rom. 8. 23. We have the first fruits of the spirit , waiting for the redemption of our body ; we are saved by hope ; we do wait in patience for it : yet these Saints thus waiting for the redemption hoped for , already witnessed in measure a being saved from sin within : And for him to say the soul is to be saved , how doth it agree with the Doctrine published by G. F. in a Book , Intituled , The great mystery of the great Whore ? speaking thus , p. 29. 68. 90. and 258. of the soul , which is part of man as he is a man , nothing else in man , being called his soul , but what is a part of him , — that , It is infinite in it self , more then all the world , a part of God , of his being , and so divine , without beginning and ending , coming from God , and returning to God again ; the power of God , and God doth not change , nor his Spirit , nor the Soul ; God doth not change in his being , neither doth that which cometh from him : — Doth a part of God infinite in it self , without beginning , that changeth not , need to be saved ? And if the soul be such as is here expressed , then the end of such mens exhortations and preachings cannot be to gather souls to God ; because being a part of God , without beginning , that changeth not , it could never , nor can never be separate from God ; and so contrary to that of the Apostles , the end of whose Ministry , was to beget men and women into the faith , and hope of the resurrection of the dead , That at the appearing of Jesus Christ , they might receive the end of their faith , even the salvation of their souls 1 Pet. 1. 9. As for thy charge of siniting the Quakers in the dark ; I answer , if their own consciences accuse them not , neither do I ; only such Preachers as this ( G. K. ) doth impose upon them such doctrine ; how far they do receive it , it doth concern them not a little seriously to consider . In the conclusion thou tells me , — That if others had not set my work before me , thou might'st have found in thy heart to have dealt with my Book throughout . — And what thou wouldst have brought forth is sufficiently manifest by the little thou hast published ; and really if a man may judge of a work by the introduction thereunto , thou hast given the Reader a true account of the following Work brought forth by thy Partners ; who also have produced a piece of work sutable to thy Introduction ; wherein thou hast made thy self manifest , as smiting against the true Saviour , the Man Christ Jesus , and redemption through faith in him , Testified unto by me ; a work too heavy for thee , though rashly undertaken by thee , against thy old acquaintance R. G. GEORGE KEITH . THou art the next Man I meet with opposing my Testimony ; and thou pretends in words much higher then the rest , telling me , That thou finds somewhat in thee from the Lord to answer me in love to my soul : — But re-examine thy self ; didst thou ever to this very day in word or writing ( though thou wast in the same town with me ) communicate this to me ? nay verily ; It is true I saw this answer of thine another way then through thee ; thou hast therefore either never received any thing from the Lord to answer me in love to my soul , ( and it is but the product of thy own deceived mind fathered upon the Lord , as the manner is too too often among you ) or else thou hast proved rebellious and unfaithful to him that sent thee , and most uncharitable to my soul in never delivering it . In the Title thou tells me that I have disingeniously represented the Quakers and their Principles , and so faith thy Partner G. W. But I say again , if their consciences accuse them not , neither have I , who have not so much as mentioned them ; and truly I do not find such a plain consistency in those Principles published as theirs by their Teachers , or such an unanimous reception of them by every person among them , as that I could have undertaken to represent them as the principles of every one among that people : But you are herein like those Lawyers , who when the Lord reproved the Pharisees , said unto him , Master , thus saying , thou reproachest us also ; and thus it is with you : Errours lodged among Turks , Jews , Arrians , Papists , Socinians and Ranters cannot be reproved by a Testimony to the Truth , as recorded in the Holy Scriptures ; But necessarily the out-cry must be with you , In so saying thou chiefly means the Quakers ; as if mainly concerned therein , though they are not so much as mentioned . In the beginning of thy work thou speaks thus to me , — the youngest child of truth may see thy weakness and confusion ; — What an inconsistency is there between thy words and this work , published by you Four against my Testimony ? why was there such a stir raised about it ? why was it not left in its own simple weakness , without being branded with nick-names of their nature who so named it ? and why have so many of you joyned together ( as if it were for your very lives ) against it , yea , and forcing it to speak what it intended not ? And that not by the youngest among you ; But even by G. W. himself , reputed the Second among your Ministry ; and no he alone , but assisted by the Quick-witted , A. R. the Learned , G. K. and the Wise , G. L. In the 5. page , thou expressest thy self in these words , — Though Redemption is wrought within by the Spirit of Christ , yet not without respect to Christ even as outwardly born and crucified : — Here I take notice of thy slighting that great work of mans Redemption as already purchased by Christ for sinners , by that one sacrifice of his crucified-body once offered for sins ; to be made effectual in all such as receive that attonement by the operations of his Spirit within , through faith in Him the Attoner ; Speaking first of a Redemdtion wrought in us by the Spirit , as if that were the cause and foundation thereof ; only adding as something in order thereunto , yet not without respect to Christ as outwardly born : And this is the Doctrine of thy Partner G. W. in the 9. page of his part in these words , — See Reader how erroneously he hath excluded the works of God and Christ from within , as to ransoming and freeing man from sin , and making him righteous ; so bringing him into unity and friendship with God ; which is the true sense of redemption , justification and reconciliation , which are not obtained without the operation of the Spirit of holiness within : ( though Christs Testimony sufferings and example had a tendency thereunto ) And R. G. would impose on people a faith concerning a redemption , reconciliation and justification , as being all finished , wrought or purchased without them , without respect to any work wrought or to be wrought within them by any light or spirit whatsoever — That I exclude the operations of the spirit of holiness within , from being necessary for bringing the believer into union and friendship with God , is falsly charged upon me ; yea , had not passion blinded this man , he might have read in my Testimony , that I asserted the necessity thereof in order thereunto : But that the operations of the spirit of holiness in us , are the attonement , the propitiatory sacrifice , as the ransome , price or cause of our redemption , and that to be the true sense of redemption , that I deny ; And this man by affirming it , plainly contradicts the Scriptures , speaking thus of our Lord , and the propitiatory sacrifice of his crucified body , That he slew the enmity in himself so making peace , that God reconciled us to himself through the death of his Son , while we were yet enemies , so no qualification wrought in us by any spirit whatsoever in order to the perfecting of the purchase of a redemption , and paying the ransome for sinners : Hence not I , who only Testified to the Truth of the Apostles express Doctrine ; But this man is more truly and properly an imposer of this his unscriptural Doctrine ; especially being a Teacher of a people , to whom it is not allowed to question , examine or dissent from the Doctrine delivered to them by the ancient friends of the Ministry : But to these men I say , that the works wrought for us by Christ in his crucified body , is the first Mystery , the foundation of all our mercies , the ground of the possibility of having any works wrought in us by the Spirit of God , tending to our being made like unto him : yea , had not our Lord finished the work the Father gave him to do , when he set him forth as a propitiation for the sins of the whole world , and had he not triamphed over all things that were against us for us , and had he not obtained eternal redemption for us by the price of his blood , we had not witnessed the benefit thereof by receiving that attonement through faith in him ; if he had not died ( not for himself , but ) for our-sins , and risen for our justification , we had died in our sins , and remained in death for ever ; the works wrought in us who believe , being but the consequence and effect of what he did for us , even when sinners , before we believed ; He loved us first , he saw us in our blood , and said onto us , live , and it was a time of love ; he died for us while we were yet sinners , and reconciled us to God , while we were enemies : And this Doctrine doth not invalidate the inward operations of God within us , neither is it the Devils or his Agents instrument , to exclude the inward works of Christ , as if not necessary to us , thereby to make us partakers of his Divine Nature , and give us fellowship with the Son of God ; as G. W. in his last words of his part would make people believe ; But it is the very Doctrine of the Apostles , thus Testifying of Christ , That he slew the enmity in himself , so making peace ; who having finished the work the Father sent him to do , by purchasing and perfecting Redemption und Reconciliation with God for sinners , by the ransome of himself ; and being ascended and glorified , sent forth his Ambassadours , intreating men to be reconciled to God ; That in all Ages and Generations such as through faith in him receive that attonement might witness what the Apostle testifieth of the Corinthians , 1 Cor. 6. 11. in these words , But ye are washed but ye are sanctified , but ye are justified , in the name of the Lord Jesus , and by the Spirit of our God ; a place of Scripture mentioned by G. W. in his last words of his part , but miserably perverted , contrary to the true intent of the Spirit , by leaving out these words , as pressing him to hard [ In the Name of the Lord Jesus ] as if of purpose to exclude the sufferings and sacrifice of Christ as the price of our Redemption , and the ground and cause of our witnessing a being washed , sanctified and justified by the Spirit : whereas had not the first been , the other had never been ; and this man opposing and denying the first , shuts out himself from the benefit of the second . Whilest indeed it hath been the work of the Devil and his Agents in several generations to darken this Doctrine of the justification of sinners , through the death of Christ , as a work already perfected with God , to be witnessed by the spirit through faith in Christ ; By pretending through an obedience to be wrought by us , or in us to some law or other , ( as the only way ) to blessedness and perfection ; being a principle agreeing with the reason of man ; Thereby darkning and plainly denying the attonement , and one propitiatory sacrifice of the Body of the man Christ Jesus once offered for sins , and redemption as already obtained through his blood , so plainly Testified unto throughout the Scriptures ; as being known only to believers through the revelation of the Spirit . But further , that thou derogates from the honour and dignity that belongs to the Son of God , appears by thy next words , pag. 5. saying — That Christ offered up his very flesh through the eternal Spirit , in the outward as an attonment unto God , in order unto our justification , so as thereby he made ready way for our justification , though our justification was not simply and absolutely wrought thereby , as if no more were to be done by him , or his spirit in us . — I do acknowledge that although I do assert , that redemption and justification is already purchased for sinners , by the intire and perfect obedience of the man Christ Jesus , as he whom God sent forth as a propitiation for the sins of the whole world , and that he finished and perfected what he came to do for us ; yet I do not say that he so finished it for us , as if no more were to be done within us by his spirit , in order to our receiving that attonement : But thou as doth thy Partner G. W. jumbles these things confusedly together , and so divides not the word aright ; speaking of the works wrought for us by Christ , as lame and imperfect , not as having purchased redemption , and reconciliation with God for sinners , but only having done it in part ; so not as having finished the work given him to do ( though he so Testifieth of himself ) but that he did something in order thereunto , that his Sufferings , Testimony and Example had a tendency thereunto ; not telling how much or what he did , or what he left undone ; and what further tendency the Sufferings , Testimony and Example of Christ had hereunto , then that of Pauls , or any other Martyrs , whose Testimony , Sufferings and Example had also a real tendency hereunto ; which you should have distinctly done , had you intended plainness , in honesty to bring forth your doctrine to be tryed in the light : Therefore although in the 13. pag. thou acknowledges , That Christs outward coming was not a bare Example , but had a real influence and service in its place ; yet because thon still keeps thy self in the dark , unwilling to be manifested in the light , not telling us what that further influence and service was , more then being a bare example ; and opposest him as the great propitiatory sacrifice for the sins of the whole world , as having by the sacrifice of himself taken away sin , and obtained Eternal Redemption for us by his blood , as being a work already perfected by that one offering once for all , telling us plainly that Christ did only something in order hereunto ; May I not therefore understand by thy saying , that Christ was more then a bare example , that thy meaning is , that he was sent , to publish the universal love of God to mankind , in a tender of life and salvation to all that believed and followed him ( the Light ) in all righteousness ; To abolish the shadows of the Law , To confirm his Doctrine by Miracles and an innocent life ; and lastly , to offer up his body to be crucified by wicked hands , as a compleat Captain and perfect Example ; which is the fullest account of the ends of his coming , enumerated by W. P. in his Book , Intituled , The sandy Foundation , pa. 19. Thus shuffling out Him , the Son of Man , As having laid down his life a ransome for sins ; and as having offered up his body , and shed his blood without the Gates of Jerusalem , as the blood of attonement , that speaks better things then the blood of Abel , and as the one propitiatory sacrifice to take away sins ; denying him as having already abolished sin , slain the enmity in himself , so making peace , as having made reconciliation , purchased justification for remission of sins , and obtained Eternal Redemption for sinners ; That all believers in all generations through this work so finished and perfected by him in his body of flesh , might through faith in Him , the Son of Man , the Attoner , receive that attonement for the remission of their sins , and as a ground of hope to them after their being dead , to be raised again unto life eternal by the resurrection of the dead , unto all which the Holy Scriptures expresly Testifie , and of all which this man speaks not one word , but rather pleads against it : agreeable to that Doctrine published among you , speaking thus in a Book , Intituled , Sauls errand to Damascus , pa. 8. Christ in his people is the substance of all figures , types and shadows , fulfilling them in them , and setting them free from them : But as he is held forth in the Scripture-letter without them , and in the flesh without them , he is their example or figure , which is both one , that the same things might be fulfilled in them that was in Christ Jesus . — But if thou tell me that thou hast mentioned an attonement , a sacrifice , a propitiation , yet I say , thou not having spoken of them , as only of the Man Christ Jesus , or of those ends in relation to us they are made mention of in Scripture , may I not therefore account thee one with thy Partner G. W. who in the 12. pa. of his Part , plainly expresseth himself in these words ; — That Christ in his outward death was a ransome , an attonement , an acceptable satisfactory sacrifice to God , a propitiation for mankind , and to be a living Example through all , not only to end the Law and Sacrifices without , but to bring the believers beyond and through the ministration of death , condemnation and wrath within , into peace and union with God : — But which of all the Prophets or Apostles , ever so wrote , of a ransome , an attonement , a propitiation , a purchase , a price of our Redemption , as of a work to be done in us , as it was in Christ , or that in these Christ was an Example to us , that they might over again be effected in us , or that Christ was a figure ; And which of all those Holy Men ever so wrote , of a believers being brought through the ministration of death , condemnation and wrath , after the Example of the Man Christ , as he not having already in his body of flesh born all these things for us , and by his resurrection from the dead triumphed over all these things that were against us , for us : And which of all the Apostles so wrote of these things as thou hast done , telling us that Christ did somewhat in the outward , in order to our justification , though our justification was not absolutely ▪ wrought thereby : Now since in the Holy Scriptures this mystery of faith in the Man Christ Jesus for our Redemption and Salvation as already purchased by his obedience in the body of his flesh , is plainly and fully expressed ; this new coyned mystery of faith in the light in your consciences , or within you , as it is within you , and in every man as he comes into the world , as your Saviour , and obedience thereunto to be done and perfected in your bodies or within you , by his Spirit and after his example , as the cause of your justification for the remission of sins , and the ground of your hope for eternal Life , and salvation of the Soul and whole man ; I say this Doctrine of yours being another then that of the Apostles cannot take place , but in them who having rejected the truth , are therefore given up to strong delusions . But as having a mind yet further to cavil , In the 7. pa. thou argues thus ; — Is not this confusion and contradiction to thy self , first to say , a man dead in sins , unsanctified , altogether a child of wrath , and yet God is fully attoned , perfectly reconciled to them , I answer , Were it not more honesty in thee , to charge the Apostle , then me , who wrests not , but only repeats the Apostles words , saying , we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son while we were yet enemies ? thou shouldst therefore clamour against the Apostle , thus , is not this palpable confusion and contradiction to thy self , Paul , to say of enemies , while yet enemies , so unsanctified persons , God fully to be reconciled with such , even while such ? dost thou think this clamour of thine , will make void the Apostles plain positive assertion ? and shall we therefore say , the Apostle was mistaken , and is now corrected by G. K. But that thou mayst appear not so plainly to contradict the Apostle , in the beginning of the 13. page , thou tells me , — And though the Apostle saith , while we were enemies , we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son , yet he adds , much more shall we be saved by his life : I answer , Is it any wonder that thou unfaithfully repeats my words , to make them speak what I intended not , when thou dare do the same with the very Apostles words , leaving that part of the sentence out which is most weighty against thee ? the Apostles words , Rom. 5. 10. being these , much more being reconciled , we shall be saved by his life ; and what doth this make for thee ? the Apostle saith , that while we were enemies we were reconciled , in the time past , and he spake truth , although thou dares quarrel it as a contradiction , and also the Apostle saith , being reconciled ( in the time past ) we shall be saved by his life ; in the time to come , as to be done , although they were already reconciled ; and from this also thou dissents , as I have already proved by thy own words , page 16. speaking of the Soul , yea , and the whole man being saved within ; although the Apostle spoke truth , that being reconciled , we shall be saved by his life ; that as God raised him from the dead , and as he now lives and shall die no more , we also whom while enemies , God reconciled to himself by the death of his Son , we who since we believed , having received that attonement , shall after our bodily death be raised from the grave , and be made partakers of that salvation , which through faith and hope we wait for while in the body ; for we are saved by hope : And in the next words of that 13. pag. thou sayst to me — And though thou uses this Scripture to prove , that men are reconciled to God through the death of Christ , excluding any qualification wrought by him in them , yet it is but an abuse of the place ; ( though I only repeat the Apostles express words , and mentioned no more then what is plainly asserted by them ) nor need I go further then thy own confession to alledge a more safe way of understanding that Scripture , as where thou sayst , although in the dayes of Isaias Christ was not then come in our flesh , yet the Prophet speaks of it as a thing already done , it being so in the purpose of God ; and so why may not Paul after this manner . — I answer . Paul cannot be understood so to speak , because the death of the Man Christ was past before he so wrote : And if we should so understand these words of the Apostle , it confirms that I asserted ; for as Christs sufferings spoken of by the Prophet Isaias as done in his time , because according to the Scriptures ( and therefore my confession ) were what his band and his Counsel determined before to be done ; therefore they were in the fulness of time so really accomplished as God before determined ; thus if Paul spoke of Gods being in Christ , reconciling the world to himself , and that while we were enemies we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son , it being so in the purpose of God before the foundation of the world , surely then , when Jesus Christ came into the world to finish what the counsel of God before hand had determined , he really , actually finished and accomplished it ; or else the purpose of God was frustrate , and Christ finished not what God before hand determined he should do , and set him forth for to do ; which to assert either of God or Christ are alike impiously blasphemous . Thy Partner G. W. in the 15. page of his Part , saith , — This Doctrine tends to make a merry world in their sins ; — But the Apostle as if of purpose to rebuke this spirit . Rom. 6. 1. saith , Shall we therefore sin that grace may abound , God forbid ! and in another place , The grace of God teacheth us to deny ungodliness : And in the 16. page , G. W. further argues thus , — Could that be an answer of divine justice , so to take vengeance on the innocent , and let the guilty go with their sins past , present , and to come ? and how can God then in justice execute wrath on any for sin ? — I answer , It is strange to find this man , so very dark , thus to argue against God! However he is reproved by the Apostle , who saith in express words ( as if of purpose to check this cavelling spirit ) of the Man Christ ; He died , the just for the unjust ; though in him was no guile found , yet he was made sin and a curse for us ; though be had done no violence , neither was any deceit in his mouth ; yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him ▪ he was smitten of God , wounded for our transgressims , the chastisements of our peace were upon him though we had turned every one to his own way ; the Lord laid on him the iniquity of us all : This , man should thus answer the Prophet Isaias , is that divine justice , to take vengeance on , wound sinite , bruise the innocent , and let the guilty go free : And the Apostle asserts in so many words . Thu Jesus Christ the righteous is a propitiation for the sins of the whole world ; may I not thence in truth assert Him to have been a propitiation for all sins , past , present , and to come ; which since this man so much quarrels , narrowing the extent of Christs death ; of whom it is written , That He tasted death for every man , Let him plainly answer , ( God having so determined before the foundation of the world ) whether there was any necessity that the Man Christ Jesus should have been offered up as a sacrifice for remission of sins at all ; the Apostle tells us , That without blood there was no remission ; which if so , that if for the remission of every sin there be a necessity of that blood of attonement , if he did not then when he was offered up , attone for all sins , must he then come again to be offered up again for those remaining sins , not already attoned for , by that one Sacrifice of his Body , already once offered never to be offered again ? And though this one propitiatory sacrifice once for all be sufficient in it self for the sins of the whole world , yet such as receive it not , but through unbelief reject him , Christ saith of such ; The wrath of the Father abides on them ; they remaining still in unbelief , the sentence of the Law , ( Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which we written in the Book of the Law to do them ) remaining also in them , because they have not received this attonement , but putting that word of God , spoken to them from them , have judged themselves unworthy of everlasting life . In the 7. Page , I find another exception against this Doctrine of the Apostle , 2 Cor. 5. 8 , 19. The Apostles words are , Hath reconciled us , viz. Vs who believe and are sanctified ; but of the world he saith , reconciling , so not reconciled ; yea , in that same place he mentions a qualification on their part to be wrought by the spirit in order to their full reconciliation , be ye reconciled to God. — I answer , thou art here very hard put to it , who though thou be a Master of Arts , must be desired to ask the Boyes in the Grammar-School , whether was reconciling , and hath reconciled , do not both denote a time past ; And if the Apostle spoke truth , saying in the time past , God was in Christ reconciling the world to himself and if Christ also spoke truth of himself , John 14. 4. I have finished the work the Father gave me to do ; then surely what God was doing in time past in Christ , to wit , reconciling the world to himself , he finished it ; and so it is a work already done and perfected on God , part : And for that qualification mentioned by the Apostle on their part , it confirms what I asserted , and I have also affirmed it in my Testimony , that in order to make the reconciliation with God already finished by Christ effectual in every man , we are ( as a qualification required on our part , as to receiving that attonement already perfected ) invited to be reconciled to God , who in Christ Jesus is already reconciled to us , even while enemies ; which qualification on our part is not the reason or cause of our reconcilation with God ; for the Apostle in the next words , plainly points out to us the reason and cause thereof ; For he hath made him to be sin for us , who knew no sin , that we might be made the righteousness of God in him ; here is the foundation of all our hopes , the ground of our confidence , the reason why we are invited to be reconciled to God , Jesus Christ who knew nosin , was made sin for us , a work already done and perfected ; the fruit and consequence whereof is , that we might be made the righteousness of God in him : Had not the first been done and perfected by Christ without us , we had never witnessed the second within us : They that sleight and reject the second , really neither know nor believe the first ; they that oppose and reject the first , they shut themselves out from the second . Now to conclude this matter , in the 13. Page , as if thou hadst set thy self of purpose to print thy self-contradictions , after a great deal of vain jangling thou confessest to the truth in plain words though against thy self and Partners ; therefore I shall sum up this Doctrine which I have according to the Scriptures affirmed , and which thou contrary to the Scriptures hast cavelled against and denied , in thy own very words , — We do willingly acknowledge , the full and perfect redemption was in Christ , while we were enemies ; but now since we believed , we have received the attonement . — But I further take notice of thy next words in the 5. Page , thus ; — Our justification was not absolutely wrought by Christ as manifest in his body of flesh ; As if his outward body , flesh and blood were the only sacrifice excluding the inward . — I answer , neither do I assert that his flesh and blood was the only sacrifice ; for his soul was made an offering for sin , so that thou shouldst have more fully exprest thy self herein : For if thou understands , by excluding the inward , the inward works of the spirit as wrought within us , then with thee , Christ in offering up himself a ransome and sacrifice for sin , is an imperfect , unsufficient propitiation excluding those inward works , as if these were a part thereof ; thou shouldst have spoken more plainly in this matter , as doth one W. S. a Teacher among you , in his Book , Intituled , A new Catechisme , pa. 64. in these words , As the Foundation and Principle of the Quakers ; — We believe that Christ in us doth offer up himself ( mark that , a work yet a doing ) a living sacrifice unto God for us , by which the wrath and justice of God is appeased towards us ; and that through the Offering and Sacrifice of CHRIST the hand-writing of Ordinances which stood against us , is blotted out ; ( mark that , in the present time , as now doing , ) — How plainly doth this man set himself to speak another Doctrine then that of the Apostles ; the sacrifice offered up to God for sin is called by the Apostle , one offering , once offered ; and therefore also is called the offering of the body of Jesus : Hence the Apostle saith plainly , 1 Tim. 2. 5 , 6. there is one Mediatour between God , and Man , the Man Christ Jesus , ( mark that , the Man Christ Jesus , as Son of Man ) who gave , ( mark that , in the time past ) himself ; mark that , not meekness , humility , patience ; or the like in every man , but-himself ) a ransom for all : hence Christ the Son of Man was the ransome for all ; And so it is , Ephes . 5. 2. Who hath given himself an offering to God for us : This man tells us ; that it is the foundation of the Quakers , to believe Christ in us ( as spiritually manifested in us so not as Son of Man without us ) doth offer up himself a Sacrifice unto God for us : This man saith , The hand-writing of Ordinances which stood against us is blotted out , ( as doing in us . ) The Apostle said , blotting it out , and took it out of the way , as done ; Thus he renders the Foundation and Principle of the Quakers to be another then that of the Apostles ; And such kind of doctrine doth thy Partner G. W. mention in the 14. and 15. Pag. of his Part , in these words — That in respect of our being renewed by the Spirit of Christ , we are said to be purchased to God ; and in this sense it is said , God hath purchased his Church with his own blood . How darkly and confusedly doth this man write : It is true , by being renewed by the spirit within , it comes to be manifest that we are these whom Christ ▪ hath purchased ; but that these works of the spirit wrought in us are the Ransome , the Attonement , the propitiatory Sacrifice , or any part of it , or the ground and cause of our being redeemed , that I deny as contrary to the Scriptures , Testifying the Sacrifice and purchase of our Redemption thereby , to be a work done at once , by the one offering of the Body of the Man Christ , and in this sense it is said , God hath purchased ( a work done and perfected ) his Church by his own blood ; whereas G. W. his confused doctrine renders this purchase , as a work , dayly doing , in every generation , in many bodies , as every man comes to be renewed by the spirit : And really this is in effect no less then in a more fine dress of new coyned words a bringing in another , unbloody sacrifice , like that Rome , with this difference ; that is an offering of a piece of Bread , which they say is the Body of Christ , this new one is Faith and Patience , and the like graces of the Spirit of God , which these men say , is offered up in us for us to God , as a ransome , an attonement , and purchase of our Redemption : Both agreeing in this , that there is another offering , another sacrifice dayly offered up for sin , then that one sacrifice of the Body of the Man Christ Jesus , crucified at Jerusalem , then and there once offered up to God through the Eternal Spirit for the sins of the whole world . In the 6. Pa. thou acknowledges , — That our salvation and justification hath a necessary respect to the death of Christ in the outward , God baving so ordained it . — Now consider thy words , that which our salvation and justification hath a necessary respect unto , without the effecting thereof ( to wit , the death of the Man Christ ) we could never have been saved or justified : Now let G. L. and G. W. thy Partners in this work Testifie whether thou hast spoken the truth herein , or not : G. L. writes thus to me , as is afterward mentioned in his Part , — It is not names and things done abroad , but the life within that redeems the soul to God ; — The death of Christ in the outward , being a name and thing done abroad , doth not ( saith G. L. ) redeem the soul to God ; he allows not , but plainly excludes any such necessary respect our Redemption hath to Christs death in the outward : G. W. in the 16. pa. of his Part tells me , — That it is a blasphemous opposing the Omnipotency of God , and an undervaluing him as if he were no Saviour , to assert any such necessary respect our Redemption hath to the death of Christ ; especially ( saith he ) while R. G. thinks God was so displeased , and his wrath so stirred up , that it would hold man captive in death ; unless Christ as Son of Mary should satisfie and answer this wrath , and undergo this death . — Thus as it was said of old of those false witnesses who bore Testimony against the Person of our Lord ; so may it also be said of you who have joyned your selves against my Testimony both to his Person and Doctrine ; And their witness agreed not together : But to help thee out of this strait , that thou mayst joyn hands again with thy Brethren , turn to the 8. Pa. of thy Book , where repeating these words out of my Book , viz. That there is another snare , that carrieth death in the bosome of it ; and it is that spirit that publisheth , that the light in every man is the true Christ our only Saviour , and there is not another ; And that man is to be joyned to this light , which of it self is able to redeem him as he becomes obedient thereunto : To all which thou adds these words , — here with open mouth thou smites against our Principle , — then surely by thy confession this must be thy Principle ; and if so , thou plainly contradicts thy self ; for here is no mention of Christs death in the outward , nor any room left for any such necessary respect our Redemption hath thereunto , that being a part of that snare , to pretend to Redemption without any such necessary respect to the death of Christ . In the 8. page thou argues against me from some of my words thus , — Thou sayest , light and power in Christ considered as distinct from his being a man , and the light in every man as he comes into the World , asserted to be he the true Christ , is to assert another Saviour then him , Jesus Christ of Nazareth born of Mary , and yet thou expresly pleads for Christ being formed within men ; who of the weakest discerning cannot see thy self-contradiction here : — I answer , thou art reproved by the Apostles , who plainly testified that the same Jesus whom the Jews Crucified is both Lord and Christ , and there is not another ; and yet also pleaded that Christ might beformed in them ; By the first telling us who the true Christ was and is , the man Christ Jesus of Nazareth , the same Jesus whom the Jews Crucified . In the other expression they tell us how we partake of his nature , to wit , by his being formed within us , called Christ within the hope of glory ; Christ dwelling in us by Faith : Now thou jumbles and confounds these , not dividing the word of truth aright . The man Christ Jesus of Nazareth to be the true and only Christ , thou dost not confess , which the Apostles plainly did ; Christ as formed within , the hope of glory , dwelling in us by Faith , as manifest within us ; this manifestation of him as in us , thou calls the true Christ , our only Saviour , which the Apostles never did . Thus setting thy self to speak contrary to the Apostles , thou dares boldly ( though blindly ) call their plain positive Assertions , Contradictions . And sutable to this thy Doctrine , is thy Confession of Christ , in the 13. page , in these words , — We believe and acknowledg him who was manifest in that body of flesh , to be he the true and only Christ . This is a new coined Confession ; differing , and quite another then that of the Apostles , in these words , 16. Matth. 16. Thou art ( not he that is manifest in that body of thine , but , thou ) art the Son of the living God : and after his being ascended and glorified , they confess him in these words , Acts 2. 36. Let all the house of Israel know assuredly that God hath made that same Jesus ( not him that was manifest in that body of flesh , but the same Jesus ) whom ye have crucified both Lord and Christ : Is it because he was hanged on a tree that thou art ashamed to own him as Saviour ? Or that thou dost not believe that God raised him from the dead ? or rather art thou afraid to confess him , because of the Pharisees , lest they should put thee out of their Synagogue , as they have done some others , because they openly confessed him ? Oh consider the words of our Lord , Luke 12. 8 , 9. Whosoever shall confess me ( not him in me , but me ) before men , him shall the Son of man ( not him in the Son of Man considered as distinct from him , a man ) also confess him before the Angels of God ; But he that denyeth me ( to wit the Son of Man ) shall be denyed before the Angels of God : Dost thou think that thou hast found out a better manner of expressing this truth , then the Apostles had ? or dost thou not really change their Doctrine by thy new coyned manner of expressing it ; for by the Apostles the Man is acknowledged as Saviour , That same Jesus whom ye Crucified , a man approved of God among the people ; unto you this day is born a Saviour , Jesus ; there is one Mediatour , the man Christ Jesus ; by man came death , by man came also the Resurrection of the dead . By thee the man is left out and shuffled by , not confessing him the Son of Man ( as the Apostles ever did ) to be he ; but him ( to wit the God-head considered as distinct from his being a man ) that was manifest in that body of Flesh , to be he ; the true and only Christ our Mediatour , which the Apostles never did ; herein agreeing with the Doctrine of H. W. a Preacher among you , who in a Book intituled , A Declaration to the Baptists , pag. 13. tells plainly — Christ was never seen with any carnal eye , nor his voice heard with any carnal ear — hereby plainly denying him to be the Son of Man , who , as of purpose to rebuke this lying Spirit , testified of himself , that he was both seen and heard by the bodily eyes and ears of those among whom he conversed , John 9. 35. he saith to the man that was born blind , Dost thou believe on the Son of God ? he answered and said , Who is he Lord that I might believe on him ? And Jesus said unto him , thou hast both seen him , and it is he that talketh with thee . Mark this if our Lord spoke truth , he whom this man both saw and talked with , with his bodily eyes and tongue , was the Messias , the Son of God. And since he was ascended and glorified , Acts 9. was it not the true Christ , Jesus of Nazareth , who appeared and spoke unto Saul , as he was going with his Persecuting companions to Damascus , he said so of himself , I am Jesus of Nazareth ; yet it is added in the 9. verse , and the men which journeyed with him stood speechless , hearing a Voice , but seeing no man. Thus that Jesus whom the Apostles Preached , and believed in as the true Christ , the Son of God , was both seen and heard by the bodily eyes and ears of unbelievers : And hence Peter 1 Epistle chap. 7. ver . 8. writes thus to Believers , elect through the Sanctification of the Spirit unto obedience , who therefore in and by Faith had seen him , Faith being the evidence of things not seen , yet to such he saith , that the tryal of your Faith might be found unto praise , at the appearing of Jesus Christ , whom having not seen , ye love , in whom , though now ye see him not , yet believing ▪ ye rejoyce : And hence our Lord said to Thomas , John 20. 29. Because thou hast seen me ( and this was with his bodily eyes ) thou hast believed , blessed are they which have not seen ( and surely this is not of an inward sight of him by Faith ) and yet have believed : Here is a being sanctified unto obedience in Christ with joy , and yet , in him whom they now see not . And to maintain this Doctrine , in the 17. page thou mentions these words ; — Though it be said by some of us , that Christ was sometime preached as crucified to the Jews , but more generally a light to the Gentiles , which imports but one Christ in a twofold way of appearance ; for though the Apostles Preached him in the form of a man , yet they Preached him also , and that more generally , a light to the Gentiles . — What strange Doctrine is this ? If the Apostles Preached Christ in the form of a man ; when they so Preached him , was he not a real man ? And if so , ( and because you neither confess nor Preach him as a man , but as a light in that man Christ , and as a light in every man , as it is in every man , as he comes into the World ) tell us plainly what is become of that man ? Hath he now any real , individual glorified bodily existence ? and was there ever , or will there ever be remission of sins Preached by the Spirit of God , but through that man ? and where dost thou find in the Scriptures that the Apostles Preached one way of appearance of Christ to the Jews , and another to the Gentiles ? Was not he whom they Preached in the form of a man to the Jews , and him they preached the light of the Gentiles , one and the same Christ , to wit , the man Christ Jesus of Nazareth ; Old Simeon plainly tells us , ( if he may be believed ) that the man Christ , the child then born of Mary , whom he had in his arms , is a light to lighten the Gentiles ; And he , the man Christ , said of himself , I am the light of the World ; and the Apostles they preached him as a man ( though he was and is also God ) to be believed infor remission of sins , both to the Jews and to the Gentiles ▪ that very same man they preached to be the Christ to the Jews , him also , and none but him , they preached a glory and a light both to Jews and Gentiles ; And this Peters discourse to the Jews , Acts 2 , and to the Gentiles Acts 10. doth plainly testifie . So the Apostles preached but one and the same Christ both to Jews and Gentiles , to wit , the man Christ Jesus of Nazareth , and but one and the same way of appearance of the man Christ , both in the Jews and in the Gentiles , to wit , through Faith in him : And to him , as Saviour , and to this way of his appearance in Believers , through Faith by his Spirit , for Salvation and remission of sins , through him , I have in plain words testified , and you have opposed ; but in the day of the coming of this Son of Man , even at the appearing of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ , when he shall come the second time without sin unto Salvation ( which hasmeth ) which of us have confessed or denyed him , will then be manifested . From page 9 , to 12. thou usest many words to prove the Doctrine of Justification through obedience to the light in every man as he comes into the World , not to be an establishing of the Covenant of Works : In all which , thou hast not touched that Doctrine as I laid it down ; only ( to shift the matter ) thou tells me , - That the New Covenant requires both Faith and Works upon our part ; — This I deny not : But I do deny that either Faith or Works wrought by us , or in us by the Spirit of Christ , are the previous , procuring , purchasing cause of the Love of God to us while sinners , and thence as the ground or cause of our Justification with God , or Salvation : This thou meddles not directly with , only to weaken and darken the Apostles Doctrine of Justification for remission of sins , and redemption through Jesus Christ , freely through grace without works , even through Faith in his blood , whom God hath set forth ( in the time past so already done ) to be a propitiation , to declare his righteousness for remission of sins that are past , even the righteousness of God manifested without the Law , witnessed by the Law and the Prophets , even the righteousness of God which is by Faith of Christ Jesus , unto all , and upon all them that believe : I say , to obscure and oppose this Doctrine , thou tells me thus , — Thou art ignorant of the nature of the New Covenant , as if doing were proper only to the Old and first Covenant in order to Justification , which is false : — Thus according to thy manner , thou confusedly jumbles this matter ; but the better to inform me , why didst thou not distinctly prove by the Scriptures , that under the New Covenant doing is properly required in order to Justification with God , as the previous procuring cause thereof ? But not being able to do this , thou tells me in sum this , — That the works the Law excluded by the Apostle from justification , is when the Law is done , without life or spirit , the first Covenant or Law coming before the Seed be raised , so the works not done in Christ the Seed , do not justifie ; And that the righteousness by Faith is when the Law is performed in us by works in the Spirit , a righteousness in the Elect Seed and works thereof : — These are strange unscriptural expressions , in effect renewing again the old Popish trick , to elude the force of such Scriptures as do indefinitely exclude all works wrought in us or by us as the ground or cause of our justification with God for remission of sins , without any such strange distinction ; which in plainer words they of Rome thus express , the Apostle excludes from justification works which we our selves do , by our own strength , without the help of the Grace of God , not those works we do by the aid of the Spirit ; which really confounds the Old and New Covenant , making them but one and the same : for that which requireth works to be wrought in us , as the ground and procuring cause of our righteousness and justification , though wrought in and through the Spirit of God , whether by obedience to a Law without or within us , whether the works be done ( as thou words it ) before the Seed be raised , or in the Elect Seed , is a Law of works still , and but the first Covenant still , which saith the man that doth these things shall live by them ; and so a being justified by works , contrary to the Apostle , T●t . 3. 5. Not by works of righteousness which we have done : Rom. 11. 6. If it be of works , then were Grace no more Grace ; But plainly one with that of Rome : And although it is God who worketh all our works in us and for us , and that works which God accepts , are performed by the help of his Spirit within us ; yet the works so wrought are called in Scripture our faith , our hope , our good works ; for it is the man that believes and obeyes , not God in the man , as some have fondly imagined : Hence notwithstanding of this far-fetched distinction , thy Doctrine is no other then the old Law-working-spirit , setting up an attonement , a propitiation , a righteousness by obedience of works done ( as thou speaks ) in the Elect seed raised in us ; thereby denying that one propitiatory Sacrifice of the one Crucified body of the Man Christ Jesus , and that blood of attonement , and redemption and righteousness as purchased thereby ; and so already in being in him as our head ; which hath this real tendency , even to blot out of our hearts the name and remembrance of that one great propitiation once offered for sins , and redemption , righteousness and reconciliation with God as already purchased and perfected thereby , until no other righteousness or redemption be known , but by obedience to the light in every man , as in every man ; And thus so much obedience , so much redemption , and no more , saith this Law-working Spirit from among you ; In this one principle agreeing with all the false Religions in the World , to wit , that obedience to some Law or other , is the ground and cause of Righteousness and blessedness with God ; as sutable to the Wisdome of the Greeks , and reason of man : Whereas the Gospel speaketh thus of our Lord , the man Christ Jesus hath done it already , receive the attonement , be ye reconciled to God , believe and be saved ; exalting the man Christ Jesus , as the perfection of Grace and Righteousness , as having already by the blood of his Cross , put an end to the ministration of the Law , slain the enmity in himself , the power of sin death and the Law for us ; and thus he is our Saviour : And by receiving this attonement so already finished through Faith in him the Attoner , by the workings of his Spirit within us , redemption and righteousness is known and witnessed : And this is the difference betwixt the first and second Covenant , that we return to blessedness with God , not by an obedience to be done and perfected by or in us , as the ground and cause thereof , but through that one propitiatory Sacrifice of the body of Christ once offered for all ; thus by a living Faith being united to him the Saviour , his Victory and triumph becomes the Believers , who thus is compleat in him ; and who can therefore truly say in the words of the Apostle , 1 Cor. 15. 55. O death , where is thy sting ! O grave where is thy victory ? the sting of death is sin , and the strength of sin is the Law ; But thanks be to God which giveth us Victory , ( mark that , how boasting because of works is excluded , he giveth us Victory ) through our Lord Jesus Christ : But though thou mention a first and second Covenant , yet with thee they are in effect but one ; especially whilst thou tells me of a first Covenant and Law which is abolished as a carnal Commandment , and yet callest the Law planted in every man as he comes into the World , the Law of the new Covenant of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus ; which if so , the first Covenant and Law thereof being abolished , what new Covenant and Law thereof is brought in the place of it ? with thee none at all , but still the same as was before , in the time of the Law , and afterward in all Ages , since the day that God created Adam , to wit , the Law planted in every man as he comes into the World : thou shouldst rid thy self of such confusion before thou judg another mans work confused . In Page 7. thou reckons this Doctrine , which excludes Faith from being the previous procuring cause of justification with God for remission of sins , the principle of the Antinomians : But this charge of being against the Law , or an Antinomian , is falsly cast upon me , who owns and declares , that the Law is holy , spiritual , just and good ; and that it remains in force as a Law , summed up by our Lord , in the love to God and to our Neighbour : And thou art rather an Antinomian , that is against the holy Law of God , saying in the 10 page , — That the first Covenant or Law is called in the Scripture , a carnal Commandment , — which is spoken by the Apostle to the Hebrews of the Law of the Levitical Priest-hood , and not of the Law of the first Covenant , either as it is in every man by nature , or as it was administred by Moses , called the ten Commandments , of which Law the Apostle saith , the Law is spiritual : thy ignorance of the Scriptures is very great : And that spirit also from among you is also an Antinomian , against the holy Law of God that speaketh thus , That the Law written in Tables of stone , stood in meats and drinks , was faulty , made nothing perfect , and therefore was to be done away because of its unprofitableness ; Whereas the Law is holy , spiritual , just and good , and Christ came not to abolish it , but it remains in force , and is still profitable to them that are in Christ Jesus , who came to fulfill it , thereby to take away ( not the Law , but ) that Covenant of Works , as being an administration of condemnation and death , which he abolished and conquered , and put an end to those typical services , which pointed , and gave place to him the substance , who is a Mediator of a better Covenant established upon better promises ; that what the Law could not do , in that it was weak through the flesh ( mark that ) not as if it were weak or insufficient in it self , as thou sayest in the 10. Page , — that it cannot give to man to perform perfect obedience to God ; But the Law was weak through the flesh ; God sent his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh , and for sin condemned sin in the flesh , that the righteousness of the Law ( which through the weakness of the flesh could not be fulfilled by us , but was fulfilled by Christ Jesus for us ) might be fulfilled in us , who walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit ; being through Faith in him under the administration of righteousness and of the Spirit ; and through his fulfilling the Law for us , thereby delivered from the condemnation and curse thereof ; from which man could not by his future obedience performed by or in him by vertue of any Law or light in him , have been delivered , so as to have obtained thereby Justification with God for remission of sins which were past , without a Sacrifice , and his blood of attonement in whose mouth was no guile ; because without blood there was no remission , and mans future obedience was but his duty : Wherefore Heb. 10. 2. When he comes into the World he saith , burnt Offerings and Sacrifices for sin which are offered by the Law thou hast no pleasure in , but a body thou hast prepared me , lo I come to do thy will O God , by which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus once for all . In the 13. page thou writes these words , — But that I may make it appear that thou denyes the true Christ , I shall bring thy own words , expresly denying that this light which enlightens every man that comes into the world is Christ ; and in the 17. page thou adds , So John Preached him , and so did others : — I answer , thou should rather have added , so G. F. Preached him , and so have others among us called Quakers ; and this had been truly said , as may be read in that Book already mentioned , published by G. F. p. 16 , 19 , 20 , 22 , 45 , 47 , 94 , 102 , 279. And in another little Book published by G. F. Intituled A Catechism for Children , throughout that Book : But how dares thou write so of this holy man John , or of any of the Penmen of the holy Scriptures , who never so wrote of Christ , neither canst thou show me one place of Scripture wherein it is asserted of Christ , that the light enlightning every man that comes into the World , as it is in every man as he is born of a Woman , is he the true Christ ; and this thou must prove , or thou proves nothing , but asserts thy own and other mens vain aery notions . It is true , the Man Christ Jesus said of himself , I am the light of the World ; but this proves not thy notion , the light in every man as he comes into the World is he , the true Christ . Consider the words of Esayas 9. 2. The people that walk in darkness have seen great light , they that dwell in the Land of the shadow of death , upon them hath the Light shined : Compare this with Math. 4. 14 , 15. And Jesus departed into Galilee , and dwelt in Capernaum , that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esayas , saying , the people which sate in darkness saw great light . Thus the man Christ Jesus in his Person , by his Doctrine and Miracles , where he came and abode , was a light to them that sate in darkness ; and hence he said of himself , While you have the light believe in the light , yet a little while is the light with you ; I the Son of Man ( who as long as I am in the World , am the light of the World ) must be lifted up , and be glorified with my Father , for I go to my Father ; but I will not leave you comfortless ; I will send the Comforter unto you , who shall receive of mine and shew it unto you ; he shall glorifie me : Hence the Man Christ Jesus being ascended and bodily glorified , by the ministration of his Spirit , in the children of Faith , causeth the light of his glorious Gospel to shine in their hearts : And further though it be said , Christ is our life , in God we live and move and have our being , and Christ is all in all and through all , wilt thou therefore assert that our life is Christ ? that the life in all is God ? that all in us is God ? This agreeth indeed with that Doctrine published by G. F. in his Book already mentioned , Page 91 , 229. — The soul is a part of God , of his being , divine , infinite in it self , without beginning , that God doth not change , nor the Soul ; and every one turned to the Light , they shall see Christ , who brings the Soul up to God , whereby they come to be one Soul : And this is the very root of Rantisme , hence concluding , the life in man and beast , yea in every thing to be God : and all to be one God at last , denying the real individual existences of Angels , Saints , Devils , or wicked men in eternity : and what these notions terminate in , is sufficiently known : Let us eat and drink for to morrow we shall dye , the earthly bodies perish , and the Spirit , Soul or Life of every thing comes to be all one Soul in God , and so God is all in all : And although it hath been said by some among you , that these termes , Christ is the Light , and the Light in every man is Christ , are convertible termes , yet that is apparently fals , and deceitful Philosophie ; for if so , then what might be truly and properly spoken of the one , might be also so spoken of the other ; for so it is with all propositions convertible ; And hence as it was truly , and properly spoken of the man Christ , our onely Saviour , and the true Christ , who is the Light of the world , that he was born at Bethlehem , that he was hanged on a Tree , and gave up the Ghost , might also be truly and properly spoken , of the Light in every man that comes into the world , as it is in every man , which is most absurd : I also acknowledg that it is said 1 John 1 9. of Christ Jesus , That was the true Light which 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 illuminat , enlighteth every man 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 venientem , coming into the world ; for so it is in the Greek ; in the present time enlighteth every man coming into the world ; and thus it agreeth with the purpose in the preceeding verses , there was a man sent from God whose name was John , he was not that Light , but was sent to bear witness of that Light ; thus testifying , not onely of John the Baptist as Lighted by him , whom he was sent to point out ; but that every man coming into the world to bear witness unto him , Is also Lighted by him , Christ Jesus who is the true Light : & although it be true , that every man that cometh into the world , as he is a man , born of the seed of man , through natural generation , is enlined by Jesus Christ , as he is the Word that made the World , yet the Apostle hath not asserted it in this place of Scripture , neither doth he here say , that there is a Light in every man , or that the enlighting in every man as he cometh into the World , as he is a man , is He , the true Christ ; and it is a most miserable wresting this Place of Scripture , to force it to speak thus , that there is a Light in every man as he comes into the world , by natural generation , as an elect seed in him , which is the true Christ , and mans onely Saviour : and thou hast belyed this Holy man ; in saying of him , that he so preached , to wit ; the Light , or enlighting in every man as he comes into the world , is He , the true Christ . In the 14 Pag thou mentions these words ; — But that Law and nature , by which the Gentiles did the things contained in the Law , thou wilt not have it to be the Law and Nature of Christ , but some other thing , but what thou tels not . — I answer , I said in the words of the Apostle 2. Rom. that it is the work of the Law written in their hearts ( and in every man as he cometh into the world ) whereby they which had not the Law ( to wit in Tables of Stone ) did by nature the things contained in the Law , these not having the Law , were a Law unto themselves : It is a Law or enlightning planted in Mans nature by that word which created him a Man , and without whch he differeth not from a beast ; hence it is not improperly called by some that universal reason that is in every man as he is a man , which also G. W. in pag. 6. seems to say of it ; And though man through his disobedience wholly lost fellowship and communion with God , and hope of eternal life , with a possibility under that Covenant of works , through his future obedience , of ever being restored , yet he continued a man still , even under all this loss , and also enlightned by this Law , though more darkly , whereby he knew he had disobeyed his Maker , and therefore was ashamed and hid himself ; and of which , had he been utterly deprived , he had ceased from being a man ; and so from being capable of condemnation , or of receiving the promise of restoration ; of which he knew nothing by this enlightning remaining in him , untill God published it to him , by promising him the Messias , the Womans feed to break the Serpents head ; for that Law ( as thou acknowledges , pag , 10. in these words ) — only condemns him ; and gives him the knowledge of sin ▪ This Law or enlightning thus planted in mans nature by creation , is by generation conveyed into every man as the comes into the world , and is hence called by Solomon , 20. Chap. Proverbs . 27. verse The Spirit of man which is the Candle of the Lord , searching the inward parts of his belly ; and of the spirit of man the Prophet 12. Zach. 1. writeth thus , Thus saith the Lord which stretcheth forth the Heavens , and layeth the foundation thereof , and formeth the spirit of man within him ; hence this Law in every man as it is in every man , is that which God hath formed , & therefore of it the Apostle truly and properly hath spoken , they do by nature the things contained in the Law ; as being born of the seed and after the kind of man , they are naturally or by nature men , so being born of the seed of man they do naturally or by nature the things contained in the Law , the work of the Law being written in their hearts as they are men : hence this Law or enlightning in every man as he comes into the world , being the formed spirit of man enlightned by him that made it , Is not God that formed it , the word by which the world was made , as G. F. in that Book above mentioned pag. 185. asserts ; neither is it the word manifest in flesh , as G. W. asserts , pag. 3. So what pag. 6. he would have to be right reason , in pag. 3. with him is , God manifest in flesh : Neither is it the end of the Law , the Saviour , the Mediator , the Righteousness of God , the foundation of God , as G. F. in that Book already named , pag. 9. 57. 102. 168. and 277. asserts ; for by these assertions , the creature is , and is worshipped instead of him , the creator , who is God blessed for ever : wherefore ( if it be not too late ) I would have these men consider the words of the Lord spoken by Esayas 50. 11. Behold all ye that kindle a fire , that compass about your selves with sparks , walk in the light of your fire , and in the sparks that ye have kindled , this shall ye have of my hand , ye shall lie down in Sorrow : And although by this Law or enlighting in every man , he is capable to receive the glad tydings of the Gospel when preached to him , through the promised seed of the Woman , yet it is not he , the promised seed , neither is it the light of the Gospel shining in our hearts by faith , as G. W. would have it to be pag. 6. Neither is it Christ within the hope of glory , nor the word of faith , nor the ingrafted word within that is able to save the Soul ( though it be that which receives it , and where it abides when received ) though thou seems so to assert in thy Book : Yet neither thou , nor any of you have proved or can prove what you have so asserted by the Scriptures of truth : And although by this Law in every mans nature , the eternal power and God-head may be known by the things that are made , and equity and sobriety among men may be observed , yet the glorious Gospel shining in our hearts by faith , is not thereby discerned , although G. W. pag. 6. so affirmeth of it , asserting as much as if , right reason in every man as becomes into the World by natural generation , discerneth the light of the glorious Gospel ; which if so , why is the word of faith preached ? how comes faith by hearing ? and indeed to what end was the Comforter , the spirit of truth promised , and sent to reveal this Mistery ? and how is it foolishness to the wisdom and reason of the Greeks ? But I find it not so asserted in the Scriptures of truth of this Law in every man as he comes into the World , that it discerneth or discovereth to man the purpose of grace that was in God before the world began ; preached to Adam , foretold by the Prophets , typified under the Law , pointed out by John the fore-runner , whom last of all his Apostles preached , as do all his Ministers in all Ages , proclaiming this message of Gods love to the world , not that we loved God , but that he loved us , and sent his Son to be a propitiation for our sins , that whosoever believeth in him should not perish but have everlasting life ; all in one joynt voice pointing to this Jesus , the Son of Mary , this Son of man , with an Hosanna to this Son of David , and to none before him , or to any ever since , Behold the Lamb of God that takes away the sins of the world ; a voice not heard among you of the Man Jesus Christ , the Son of the Virgin Mary , as now existing outwardly bodily , without us , but applyed by some among you to meekness , humility , and the like within you : Therefore not the Law in every man as he comes into the world ; but the Law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus shining in the hearts of Believers manifests to them the Saviour Jesus , and Salvation through faith in him ; That being graven in the heart of a man , as he is a man , this being revealed only by that Spirit which the world never saw , nor can receive ; as the Apostle plainly asserts 1 Cor. 2. 9 , 10 , 14. And hence these Laws are not therefore one and the same , because both of them are written in the heart , the one being within man , as he is a man , the other as he is a believer : And as these Laws are different so the teachings of them differ ; hence the Apostle saith doth not even nature it self teach , as being far below the teachings of the new Covenant ; the teachings of this Law in every man , either as in every man , or as outwardly administred , leading no farther then , as it was said of old , eye for eye , tooth for tooth , what you would not men should do unto you , that do ye not unto them ; But when he came who brought in a better Covenant , a more glorious Law , even that of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus , he preached a higher Doctrine , But I say unto you love your enemies , bless them that curse you , do good to them that hate you ; a Doctrine first preached by the Prince of peace himself , which the Philosophers were ignorant of , & the practice whereof these preachers among you of this Law in every man to be Christ , are yet to learn. Now according to what I have thus in plainness asserted according to the Scriptures , thy Queries in the 15. pag. are thus answered . — 1. How could they do the things of the Law but by the divine nature of ●f Christ ? — The Apostle answers thee , they did the things of the Law by nature , the work of the Law being written in their hearts . — 2. How could they be excused but by Christ ? — The Apostle answers thee , by doing by nature the things contained in the Law , their conscience bearing witness , or their thoughts accusing or excusing one another . — 3. How could they be without excuse who disobeyed , if they had not a sufficient principle given to perform their obedience , which is Christ only ? — I answer , Consider some of thy dark confused Doctrine ; in the 9. pag. thou asserts , — that the Law or first covenant putteth man upon doing , without giving grace which is sufficient to make his works acceptable to God , and so man can give no perfect obedience to this Law ; — In this question thou affirms the Law by which the Gentiles did by nature the thngs contained in the Law to be a sufficient Principle , given to perform obedience , because an insufficient principle had been a sufficient excuse : But to thy question I say , the work of the Law written in their hearts was a sufficient principle to have shewed them the things contained in the Law ; thus , that which may be known of God being manifest in them , God having thus shewed it to them , they are left without excuse ; And whereas thou sayest , that principle is only Christ , that I deny , neither canst thou prove it by the Scriptures ; but it is the work of the Law written in their hearts . — 4. How did some of them perfect the Law and were Jews inwardly , if not by Christ ? I answer , it is more then the Apostle affirms , that any of these Gentiles did perfect the Law ; only , 2 Rom. 26. he saith , if the circumcision keep the righteousness of the Law : But however the Apostle answers thy question , if the circumcision which is by nature fulfil the Law , it is by doing by nature those things contained in the Law , the work of the Law being written in their hearts . — 5. How could they clearly see the invisible things of God , but by Christ the Son , seeing it is said , none knows the Father , but the Son and he to whom the Son reveals him ? — The Apostle answers thee , the invisible things of God are clearly seen by the things that he hath made ; that of God which is manifest in them , even the work of the Law written in their hearts , gave them an eye to see his invisible power and God-head , to know God , and glorifie him as God. In the 16. Page , thou sayst , — Is there not a Divine elect Seed in the Saints by which he is formed in them ? — But because here , and in other places thou speaks of a seed , Christ within , that suffers under sin , and is to be raised , of a justification and righteousness in the elect Seed , and that the first Covenant and Law comes before the seed be raised ; All which as new imagined notions , whereof ( as thou expresseth them ) there is no mention made in the Scriptures of truth , I return back to thy self , and shall therefore plainly assert , what I find in this matter , in the holy Scriptures : Hence know that I do own , that there is an ingraffted word in the hearts of such , to whom the message of reconciliation with God , through the promised seed , being some way or other according to the good pleasure of God conveyed , have not put this Word of God spoken to them , far from them , but have received it in an honest and good heart , keep it , and bring forth fruit with patience ; living and dying in the faith and hope of the resurrection of the dead unto everlasting life , through the Man Christ Jesus , whom God also raised from the dead , the first that should rise ; as a living demonstration , to all Beleevers in all generations , that he who was able to raise the Man Christ Jesus from the dead , is also after their being dead , able to raise their mortal bodies , and fashion them like to his glorious body ; And that this word spoken to them , and received and planted in the hearts of Beleevers , is the ingrafted word able to save the Soul , and that it is , and is also called the Seed of the Kingdome , sown by the Son of Man , which in the children of Faith , takes deep root downwards , and brings forth fruit upward in their lives and conversations , I acknowledge : But that the Law or enlightning in every man as he comes into the world , is this ingrafted word ; or that this ingrafted word is in every man , as he by natural generation comes into the world , as a seed within him , that hath received Redemption for him , I do deny as not according to the Scriptures : As for those words , Amos 2. 13. Behold I am pressed under you as a cart is pressed ; It is such words as is spoken of God , Gen. 6. 6. It repented the Lord that he made Man on the Earth , and it grieved him at the heart : as God is in himself unchangeably the same , so this cannot be properly spoken of him ; neither is it thus to be understood , that God in those wicked men repented or was pressed down ; neither is it so expressed in Scripture ; But God is said to be grieved for and pressed down under the abominations of the wicked , because when through his Prophets and Ministers he witnesseth against , and proclaims judgements because of , their abominations , the word of the Lord through them being rejected , in them so sent forth by him , he is said to be grieved for and pressed down under their wickedness ; And this agreeth with the testimony of Stephen 5. Acts 51. 52. where their persecuting the Prophets , their betraying and murthering the just one , and rejecting the testimony of his chosen witnesses , is called a resisting of the Holy Ghost : and for those expressions 6. Heb. 6 of some crucifying to themselves the Son of God afresh ; the Apostle saith not , they that crucifie him in himself , but to themselves ; they who have been enlightned by the Holy Ghost , if such fall away , they crucifie the efficacy of his death to themselves , it is impossible to renew them again unto Repentance , because rejecting him as the only propitiatory Sacrifice for remission of sins , there remaines to them no more sacrifice for sin , and so no remission ; O Consider this and fear , before it be too late . And concerning that word of faith in the heart , 10. Rom the Apostle tells us , it is the word of faith which we preach and what it is he tells in the 9. ver . if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus and shalt believe in thine heart , that God hath raised him from the dead , thou shalt be saved : But that this Law in every man as he comes into the world , is this word of faith , that I deny , and thou hast not proved it : for Faith comes by hearing , not by natural generation . And further concerning the seed which is Christ , the Apostle 3 Gal. 16. saith , To Abraham and to his seed were the promises made ; he saith not to seeds as to many , but as of one , and to thy seed which is Christ ; thus Christ , as he is the seed of Abraham is the one seed to whom the promise belongs ; what the promis was we have it in the 8. ver . in thee shall all the nations be blessed ; & in the 3. Acts 25. Peter mentions this promise as spoken of that Jesus whom the Jews delivered up in the presence of Pilate , & not otherwise do I find in Scripture , Jesus Christ called the seed to whom the promise belongs : And this unscriptural Doctrine , the Light in every man as he comes into world to be Christ , a seed within , hath hatched among us of late these and such assertions from among you , the light the seed within is Christ , then I am he that speaketh , Then Hosanna : The Son is equal with the Father , I witness the Son in me , so I witness equality with the Father : the light in me is Christ , Christ is the word by which the world was made , then , it was said of Christ , that he was in the world , and the world was made by him , & the world knew him not , so it may be said of this Prophet G. F. as is said by S. E. in his Paper intituled , the Quakers challenge , pag. 6. Christ is the way , the truth , and the life , Christ is in me , and must he not say where he is , I am the way , the truth , and the life : he that hath the same spirit that raised up Jesus from the dead is equal with God : Jesus Christ the Mystery passed before , the same spirit takes upon it the same seed where it is manifested : as is mentioned in the Book intituled Sauls errand to Damascus , pag. 7. 8. which of all the Saints of old ever so spoke or wrote : But herein among you are fulfilled the words of our Lord ; saying , fals Christs shall arise , and many shall say , I am Christ . Lastly , I do also acknowledge , that Men and Women who are of the Faith of Abraham , are called , and are the seed of Abraham ; And thus they are the brethren and Sisters of our Lord , who that he might be their Elder brother , a real man , took part of flesh and bloud , by being the one seed of Abraham and David according to the flesh : And this agreeth with the whole tendency of the Gospel , viz. that man , ( not only something in man ) fell from God through disobedience ; that men thus dead in sins and trespasses , who delighted in sin , needed Redemption , not something in men that never consented to sin ; that the redeemer of Man , was and also is a real man , not only something in man. Thus having answered thy chief Objections against my Testimony , and by asserting the plain ' truth according to the Scriptures , clearly manifested how far different from , and contrary uno● the foundation , The Apostles and all the Saints of old built upon , for Salvation , that Doctrine is which thou hast declared of , I find thee in the 15. pag. framing a pretence whereby thou mayest seem to go off with some credit , telling me — that I made a man of straw and then knocks him down , that my Book is almost wholly spent in proving that which none of you deny , to wit , that Christ is come in the flesh , suffered and died ; — But this is such a pitiful covering , that thou mayest be seen through it by the weakest discerning , as not able to deal with the strength of that which I have Testified unto ; as indeed it is too hard for thee ; for as I have already told thy partner A. R. that was not any part of my work , no not in any part of all my Book : But since thou seeks a hole to creep out at , I am willing to let thee go ; only in love to thee , I advise thee to search the Scriptures ; for I find thee very ignorant of the truth as testified in them , and hence asserting new notions which thou hast received from other men , which tend to the darkning and denying of the joynt Testimony of all the holy men of old to the true Saviour , and to Salvation through faith in him : And that thou mayest be delivered from this dangerous snare , and yet build up in thy self and others those truths which by this thy work thou hast opposed , and contradicted , is the hearty desire of thy Friend . R. G. GAWEN LAWRIE . I Am next to deal with thee , whom I also find joyned with the rest against my Testimony : and I am to remember thee that thou hast thrust thy self among this Company by communicating to others my private Letter ( written to thee as my Friend ) without my knowledge or consent , thence to bring forth in print what could be squeezed out of it to my disadvantage , tending ( as my words are forced to speak ) to no less ( as you say ) then an owning another Mediatour or Saviour , then Jesus Christ of Nazareth ; but who or what that other Saviour is , I am not told . But to let thee and others know that I am not ashamed of what I have written to thee ; and that I am able to free my self from that groundless aspersion through thee cast upon me , I have here set down what was most material in those Objections thou didst send me in writing against my Testimony with my answers thereunto : and let the impartial Reader judge which of us either pleads for or against , Jesus Christ of Nazareth , as being the true Christ and our only Saviour . In thy Letter thou writes these words , — I find thy mind in this Book abroad , gathering in the comprehension what thou fancies , and hast heard of others , so heaps up confusion and contradiction ; what will avail thee or me that we know abroad , of things done abroad ? nothing at all ; if ever thee or I come to know true peace , we must come to know the life that quickens ; it is not names nor things done without , but the life within that redeems , that purgeth , that sanctifies that quickens the Soul to God ; — Now consider what is testified by the Prophets and Apostles concerning the the man Christ Jesus without them , a name and thing abroad , concerning whom , and what he did for Man-kind , thou sayest ( it being a name and thing done abroad ) redeems not the Soul to God , avails nothing at all : while these Saints of old prophesied of , pointed out , spoke of , and believed in him for Redemption : they saw and believed , and left it upon Record to us , and their report is true , that we also who have not seen might believe and be blessed : and in effect in that one word thouhast made the coming , death , sufferings and Resurrection of the Man Christ , and that one sacrifice for the taking away of sin , as quite useless and unprofitable to us as to our Redemption , Justification , or Salvation , as a name and thing done abroad , that avails nothing at all ; leaving out even the very Parenthesis of thy Partners , to wit , that Christs sufferings and example had a tendency thereunto ; wherein thou hast outdone them all . Another exception of thine was , in these words — so it is contrary to Scripture to say Christ came in the weakness of our flesh that came by sin , It is blasphemy to say , Christ came in the weakness of our flesh . — My answer was , surely either passion hath blinded thee , or a cloud of thick darkness hath vailed thee ; how dare thou thus charge the Apostles as blasphemers , who said of Christ , he was made of a Woman , made under the Law , came in the likeness of sinful flesh , partaked of flesh and bloud , was hungry , weeped , was touched with the feeling of our infirmities , and gave up the Ghost ▪ are not these weaknesses of our flesh , and I may add , such as came by sin too ? Another charge was , That I write of the child born according to the flesh ( to wit , of Jesus Christ the Son of Mary ) — There should be no end of his Government ; contrary to the Scripture that saith , he suffered death and continued not many years upon earth : — My answer was , I assert according to the Scriptures , that the Son that was conceived in the womb of , & broughtforth by Mary , he shall Reign over the House of Jacob for ever , and of his Kingdom there shall be no end ; and doth it in thy understanding make void his Government , because he suffered death ? tell plainly , did the Grave hold him ? did his flesh see corruption ? did he not rise from the dead ? and if so , art thou not in union with those who gave money to the Souldiers to hire them to say , that his Disciples came by night and stole him away ? Another charge was — That I assert out of the natural seed of David is the Saviour , which is blasphemy , contray to the Scriptures , which say he was without beginning and end of dayes , and who could tell his Generation , which it seems thou seeks to count . My answer was , that out of the man Davids seed God hath according to his promise raised unto . Israel a Saviour Jesus ; and is this blasphemy with thee ? then surely the Apostles were blasphemers : And if I did count his Generation , so did Matthew and Luke . Now in answer to that part of my Letter published by thee , I do asert again that in those Scriptures mentioned by thee , it is not said who the true Christ was or is , but what and how he is in Believers ; as thus , if Christ be in you , he that hath the Son hath life , greater is he that is in you , &c. The question still remains , who is he that is thus in us , and how is he in us ? Thou sayest — It is thy mistake to say that Christ in believers is but the operation of his spirit in us , not he the operator , — I answer , tell plainly , is the anointing in us as in us , he the anointed one ? are the motions of his Spirit as in us , he the mover ? are the gifts and graces of the Spirit in us , he the giver of them ? I own that the man Christ Jesns of Nazareth is the Operator and Author of Faith in us , but are faith , hope , meekness , &c. as they are in us , he the Son of man , the Author of them ? how darkly dost thou write of these things ? not according to the Holy Scriptures , though agreeing with the Doctrine of W. B. a Teacher among yon , in his Book intituled , from the spirit of truth to all persecuting enemies , 39. pag. saying — humility meekness in the heart of Gods child is a Mediatour to asswage and stop the wrathful anger which lieth in the enmity-seed , and it is the Lamb of God in whom he is well-pleased , that takes away the sin , to whom the Soul is to hearken , as a true Prophet , guide , and Saviour : And this is like the Doctrine asserted by G. F. in his Book already mentioned , p. 257. in these words ; — That which humbles people which brings down sin , is the humility which bears the sin and iniquity , which is Christ : — Is there in the whole Scriptures any mention made of such Doctrine ? nay verily , it is quite another , and indeed a plain denying of the Testimony of the Prophets and Apostles joyntly testifying to the man Jesus of Nazareth , as the only Lamb of God that takes away the sins of the world , who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree ; and there is not another man , name or thing ever in Scripture , called the Lamb of God which takes away sin , but he , the man Christ : the very mentioning these things , is enough to refute them among such , with whom the Scriptures have any credit . I wish for thy own sake thou hadst not joyned with these men against my Testimony , nor after this manner against thy old Friend . R. G. GEORGE WHITE-HEAD . THou art the last Man I meet with of this Company , who have joyned your selves together against my Testimony : And thy part in this matter is that of a clamorous Woman , having only brought forth a meer Libel stuffed with a parcel of scurrilous expressions , which I pass by as not fit to be repeated among sober persons ; however it sufficiently manifests whose Off-spring thou art , and whence thy work is . But to give the Reader some account of thy Spirit by thy work , let this be considered : I find thee very forward in fashioning my words at thy pleasure , to make them appear contradictions , which are really no further so , then as snch as thy self might reckon the Scriptures of truth to be : But consider thy own words in a Book Printed 1669 , intituled , Christ ascended above the Clouds , in the Preface ( being an answer to one J. N. ) — The main subject of this J. N. in his Book is to prove the light in every man not to be Christ ; which he should not need to have done until it had been so affirmed by us ; for though we do affirm a spiritual divine light of God and his Son to be in every man , yet it is not our principle to say Christ is in every man , or that every man hath the Son : Now read over thy words , p. 16. of thy part speaking Thus of me — let the impartial Reader judge of R. G. his confusion and ignorance , not owning the light that lightens every man to be Christ ; or the Son of God , contrary to the Scriptures ; O strange ! be ashamed ; was it never affirmed before the year 1669 , by any of the Ministry among the Quakers , That the light in every man is Christ , That Christ is in every man : if this man honestly intends what he hath asserted , without any mental reservation , wherewith at his pleasure to twist his words , meaning another thing then plainly he expresseth , Then surely , I suppose there may be so much honesty in G. F. to rebuke him openly , and bring him to a publick Confession before him ; thereby at least to vindicate his own Book already mentioned Printed 1659 ; wherein it is often affirmed by him , that the light in every man is Christ , and wherein he pleads , That Christ is in every Man : See pag. 9. 10 , 19 , 20. and many other places through that great Book : Now which of these Ministers , speaking so contrary to one another , shall the people called Quakers ( who depend upon such Teachers ) believe ? verily it is high time for such among them , who have known any thing of the Teachings of the Spirit of Jesus to cease from these men , and to deliver themselves from being thus imposed upon ; however these assertions of G. W. compared together sufficiently manifests his self-contradictions , to such as are not willing to be deluded by him ; For if the Quakers will believe G. W. it is not their principle in the year 1669 , to say , Christ is in every man ; but if they will believe G. F. it was their principle 10. years before ; And if they will believe the same G. W. in the year 1670 , then they must condemn R. G. as Anti-christian and ignorant , because denying the light in every man to be Christ , or Christ to be in every man. Next let it be further considered ( to manifest thy Spirit by thy work , ) that in my Testimony I metioned two Gospel-Misteries declared of in the Scriptures , both joyntly concurring as necessary to us , yet in their order ; and that it was the work of the enemy in his instruments to divide them , and set them as opposites each to other , thence to render them as contradictory ; Now this is really the greatest part of thy work , quarrelling and fighting against the works wrought for us by the Man Christ Jesus in his Crucified body , as erroneous and contradictory to the works he worketh in us by his Spirit : hence what Spirit drives thee is plainly manifest . But let it be considered what it is I have asserted , against which thou so much clamours ; I have testified in the Apostles express words that the man Jesus Christ of Nazareth , even that same Jesus whom the Jews Crucified , him God hath raised from the dead , and he is both Lord and Christ : If this be so , why art thou angry ? if it be false , tell us plainly : Thy quarrel against what I have asserted is manifest , first in the 13. pag. in these words — for whom doth R. G. reckon , hath this God-man , as he calls him , or God in Christ in Vnion , wrought and compleated and purchased all , &c. — An expression fitter at Constantinople then at London ; however hence it is manifest that with thee , Jesus Christ of Nazareth is God-man as R. G. calls him ; not as G. W. esteems him : But thou art reproved by our Lord who said of himself , who was but one Person , these ( may be contradictions to thee , if thou durst say so ) seeming contrary expressions , and yet in both he spoke the very truth , I and the Father am one , yet the Father is greater then I : thus plainly he is both God and man , in one undivided person . Next turn to the 16. pag. where repeating some of my words by which I proved the true Christ to have been and still to be a man , not the word only , but the word made flesh , Jesus Christ the Son of Mary ; To this thou answers in these words — Note his errour in denying the light to be Christ , and so opposing Christs Divinity ; — Mark thy words , If because of my asserting the true Christ to have been and to be a man , even then when I also asserted his being God , be with thee an opposing of Christs Divinity , as thou sayest it is , then with thee the true Christ was not , is not a man : Wherein thou art led by the Spirit and wisdom of the Greeks , who esteemed the Preaching of Remidion of sins , and the Resurrection of the dead through the man Christ Jesus whom the Jews Crucified , as foolishness : But art reproved by our Lord himself , Math. 24. 30. testifying thus of himself , And they shall see the Son of man coming in the Clouds of heaven with power and great glory : and art contrary to the Apostles , who testified of the true Christ both to Jews and Gentiles , even after his being ascended and glorified , that he was and is a man ; as is mentioned in several places of the Acts ; adding 10. Acts 43. that to him give all the Prophets witness , that through his name whosoever believeth in him , shall receive Remission of sins . Again turn to the 7. p. where thou expressest thy self in these words , — Nor was the Son of God and his light to be under such a limitation either as to time or place ( to wit , in the Womb of the Virgin Mary ) as a finite creature ; for his out-goings were of old from everlasting : — Mark thy words , if that holything conceived of the Holy Ghost , and born of Mary , is not , was not therefore the Son of God whose out-goings were from everlasting , because ( as thou words it ) he was under a limitation as to time and place in the Womb of the Virgin Mary , then plainly with thee the man Jesus Christ of Nazareth , who was that Son of the Virgin Mary , was not , is not the Son of God : whereby ( as in so many words ) thou hast given the Angel Gabriel the lye , Luke 26. 35 , who being sent of God to the Virgin Mary , said , that holy thing that shall be born of thee , shall be called the Son of God : thus thou art in union with these Jews of old , who reckoned him but a meer man , the Carpenters Son , John 10. 33. for a good work we stone thee not , but for blasphemy , and because that being a man [ Mark thy own very Spirit ] thou makest thyself God ; therefore I do reprove thee in those very words our Lord reproved these unbelievers of old . 36. ver . Say ye of him whom the Father hath sanctified , and sent into the world , thou blasphemest , because I said , I am the Son of God. Next let thy cavils and exceptions against the works wrought for us by the man Christ Jesus , be a little examined . In the 1. p. thou argues thus , how is sin finished without man , while no good is wrought within him ? Seeing Christ works all things in us by his Spirit , how is all things finished without them , before any good wrought in them ? — I answer , all things relating to the one propitiatory Sacrifice of the body of Christ once offered for the sins of the whole World , as an attonement of his own bloud to be received and believed in for Remission of sins as the ground of our hope of the Resurrection of the dead unto life eternal , are finished : All things relating to our receiving that attonement , and making that blessed work , so already finished by him without us for us , effectual within us , are wrought and to be wrought not at once , but by degrees , by the workings of his Spirit within us , untill mortality be swallowed up of life . By what I have already written in answer to G. K. I have sufficiently vindicated these truths testified unto by me , from the cavils of this man , according to the Scriptures ; who either ignorantly or wilfully jumbles these things confusedly together , not dividing the word of truth aright ; And hence it is that he reckons it erroneous in me , and a contradicting , opposing and invalidating the inward operations of the Spirit of God within ( which is falsly charged upon me ) To assert of the Messias , the man Christ Jesus of Nazareth , that he finished transgression , made an end of sin , brought in everlasting righteousness , fulfilled the Law , abolished condemnation , Curss and death , condemned sin in the flesh , took part of our flesh , and in it destroyed death , and him that had the power of death , abolished in his flesh the enmity , so making peace , that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the Cross ; And all this for sinners , ungodly , unjust , enemies , even while enemies , so no good wrought in them by any light or spirit whatsoever , so as to have purchased or perfected that blessed work : all which and much more being the express Testimony of the Prophets and Apostles , concerning him and the work effected by him for sinners thou G. W. art justly reproved by them , as having manifested thy self a plain denier of them ; and thy work is seen in the light of Christ Jesus , and by it , the Spirit that leads thee ; so that these Scripture words thou steals out of the writings of the Apostles cannot cover thee from being discerned , while thou dost not plainly and honestly mention , what is intended by them ; writing ( as thy manner is in thy works ) darkly and confusedly , thereby the more easily to deceive : And this is so plain in all this thy work , that to mention it in every place , would prove tedious : I would therefore only have the Reader consider thy words in the 12. p. thus — God sent his Son to save man from sin and death , whose sufferings , sacrifice , mediation , intercession and offices ( with the blessed effects thereof within ) we own and witness according to the Scriptures of truth as inwardly revealed : — I own and acknowledge that the blessed effects of Christs sufferings Sacrifice and Offices are to be witnessed within , as inwardly revealed : But how confusedly dost thou write ? If what is inwardly revealed within us , be the effects of the death , sufferings , sacrifice , mediation , intercession and offices of the Son of God , then there is a cause of those effects , as previous and antecedent to them , to wit , his sufferings and sacrifice , which is therefore necessarily finished , perfected and accomplished by him for us , without us , in his Crucified body , before the effects thereof could be witnessed or revealed in us : And this is that which I plead for , and thou hast opposed ; as do also thy partners ; speaking other whiles of an attonement , a sacrifice , a Mediation to be done by Christ within us for us ; and at another time speaking of the blessed effects of them to be witnessed within ; and therefore only mentioning these words of the Prophets and Apostles to catch simple Souls thereby , among a people where the Scriptures have had , and have some credit ; while you really speak another Doctrine then that testified unto by those Holy Men of old , by these and such expressions , But were you to Preach among a people to whom the report of the man Christ Jesus , the Son of God , his Sufferings and Sacrifice is not conveyed , would it be accounted necessary by you to Preach Remission and forgiveness of sins through that man , and that one Sacrifice of his Crucified body ; and the hope of the Resurrection from the dead unto eternal life through faith in that man , even the same Jesus whom the Jews Crucified , and whom God raised from the dead , and that he is both Lord and Chrst , and that there is no other Saviour , and no other Salvation , but through faith in that man , and no other ground of hope or confidence of ever being saved , but through that sacrifice already offered up , and that perfect obedience by him already performed to the will of the Father ? What you would Preach to such is manifest by your Doctrine , and by such like words from among you , that you would Preach to the Indians , nothing but what they knew already : However , to him the man Christ Jesus the Apostles testified , as Saviour , and through him they preached Remission of sins , and the Resurrection of the dead , To the unbelieving Greeks , with whom the Testimony of Moses and the Prophets had no credit ; and so they Preached to them what they knew not before , strange ( Gods say ) they , one Jesus that was dead , whom they preached to be alive , and Remission of sins & the Resurrection of the dead through faith in him ; May we know ( say they ) what this new Doctrine thou preachest is ? In the 18. pag. thou expressest thy self thus , — This man thinks that he is gotten beyond reason in his Paradoxes ; every rational man may see his darkness herein , to conclude , the believer in warfare , and imperfections in the body , and in Victory in perfection in Christ , which is all one as to say , he is in Christ and out of Christ , perfect and imperfect at the same instant . — I answer , there are Scripture Paradoxes relating to the Mystery of the Gospel , which mans wisdom and reason which is foolishness with God , cannot comprehend ; hence to the wise Greeks , Philosophers and Stoicks , the Preaching of Jesus and the Resurrection from the dead , and of the day in which God will judge the World by that man , whereof he hath given assurance unto all men in that he hath raised him from the dead , I say , this Doctrine those wise rational men counted Paradoxes gotten beyond reason ; saying of Paul , what will this babler say ? he sets forth strange Gods ; because he preached to them Jesus and the Resurrection . But I do acknowledge that among those Paradoxes , this is one ; a believer lives at one and the same time in a twofold state : by faith he is a man in Christ Jesus , in him he is compleat , while according to sense , he is a man in the flesh , subject to infirmities and death ; in the body he hath a Law of sin , in the Lord he hath put it off ; as he walks by faith he is in rest , victory and perfection ; as he walks by sight he is in labours , warfare and imperfections : hence the Apostle testifieth 8 Rom. 23. we who have received the fruits of the spirit , even we our selves groan within ourselves , waiting for the Redemption of our body ; for we are saved by hope ; but hope that is seen is not hope ; for what a man sees , why doth he yet hope for ? but if we hope for that we see not , then do we with patience wait for it ; likewise , the spirit also helpeth our infirmities : hence also faith is the substance of things hoped for , the evidence of things not seen ; Thus the Believer is in a state of hope and faith , having received but the earnest of the inheritance , not the full fruition , not as if already perfected , is daily pressing forward to that which is before , in groans , and infirmities in the body , waiting the Redemption thereof ; to which if this man hath already attained , the end of faith and hope , and so the Resurrection of the dead , where they are as the Angels , neither Marrying nor giving in Marriage ; why is he then like unto us mortals , marrying , and giving in marriage , eating , and drinking , and not above sickness and death ? But these presumptuous spirits that dare thus intrude into things they have not seen , not holding the head , so boasting of things above their measure , are reproved by the wise Solomon 30. Prov. 12 There is a Generation that are pure in their own eyes , and yet is not washed from their filthiness : whilst thou pleads for a being perfected in the self , hadst thou not been a Servant to corruption , thou hadst not brought forth such a piece of work . In the 10. pag. thou writes thus — thus for R. G. hath shewn himself one while like a Quaker ( so called ) having gotten many of their words , another while like a Presbyterian or Independent . In answer to this I am to let thee know , that even in that wherein thou acknowledges I have shown my self like a Quaker , I have therein testified to what partly and in my measure I received of the Lord , and witnessed through and under the Ministry of those thou calls Presbyterian or Independent . And whereas thou reproachest other Persons whom thou names in that 10. p. as Apostates , in departing from your company ; that charge cannot be fastned upon them , while they departed from among you , because they saw and knew that you were departed from the faith as it was once delivered to the Saints ; are the Protestants really Apostates in departing from the Papists , whom they saw and knew to be departed from the Doctrine of the Apostles , though the Papists clamoured after them as Apostates ? no more are they such in departing from you upon this account . As for my self , notwithstanding of all that I have met with from among you ( not fit to be mentioned among sober men ) I am not therefore ashamed in that I have owned and confessed , the Son of man before men ; knowing that as those of old who believed not in him , reproached him , with his Trade , A Carpenter , with his Countrey , a Galelean ; with his Doctrine , a blasphemer , with his Company , a Companion of Publicans and sinners ; So they of his Houshold can look for no less from you now , who oppose a Testimony both to his Person and Doctrine ; who while you disown and reject such as have testified unto him for their Testimonies sake , you manifest your selves to be acting over again what was done of old in the like case , 9. John 22. for the Jews had agreed already that if any man did confess that he was Christ , he should be put out of the Synagogue . R. G. THE CONCLVSION . THus having answered those objections , and taken off that disguise of confusion and contradiction that these four men have brought against my Testimony to the true Saviour ; what I therein asserted , to wit , That the man Christ Jesus of Nazareth , is the true Christ , and our only Saviour ; and that he hath by his intire obedience to his Fathers will in his own Crucified body , by that one Sacrifice thereof , once offered for sins , as the only propitiation and attonement whom God set forth , already purchased Redemption , Righteousness and Justification with God for sinners ; To be revealed by his Spirit within , where by the effect and benefit thereof is witnessed , known and felt within , by all such to whom this word of Reconciliation being preached , through faith in him receive that attonement , so already done and perfected , as the ground of their faith and hope , for the Remission of their sins , and of eternal life by the Resurrection of the dead : I say this blessed truth published by the Apostles , & testified unto by me , stands above all the weapons and darts , cavils and exceptions , formed , shot and objected again it , as the truth , against which , neither Devils nor men , Principalities nor Powers of darkness shall ever prevail . Wherefore I would have you who have thus hastily thrust your selves forth against my Testimony , ( if yet you may be in all meekness and love advised , and that you reckon it not below you , a poor begarly , carnal thing ) re-examine this your work by the Scriptures of truth ; for know you assuredly , that whosoever believes not the Record that God hath given of his Son , hath made God a Lyar : And this is the Record that John who was sent of God to point him out , did bear of him , 1. John 19. &c. he confessed , I am not be , the Christ , but seeing Jesus coming unto him ( Mark that , not meekness , humility , a light or manifestation of Christ in himself as in him ) said Behold the Lamb of God which takes away the sin of the world ; this is he of whom I said after me cometh a MAN ( Mark that , the Lamb of God pointed out by John , which takes away the sin of the world , was and is a MAN. ) which is preferred before me ; he that sent me to Baptize , said unto me , upon whom thou shall see the Spirit descending , the same is he ; and this was an outward seeing ( with his bodily eyes ) of the spirit , in the form of a Dove descending and remaining on the man Christ Jesus : and I saw ( saith John ) and bare Record , that this is the Son of God : And this is he whom the Apostles saw after his being risen from the dead , and of whom they all testified , and believed in , as the true Christ , mans only true Saviour and mediator , whom God sent forth to be a propitiation for our sins , and to be the Saviour of the World ; and this is the will of God , that we should believe in him whom he hath thus sent into the World ; And this is HE , the Son of David , the Son of man , the only begotten son of God , to whom I have testified , as the true Christ , wherein you have taken upon you to oppose me ; whom nevertheless I do beseech and intreat , to consider seriously ( for this is a weighty matter , in respect of him , the Son of man , the man Christ Jesus , a Testimony unto whom as Saviour you have dared to oppose ) the words of our Lord , 8. John 14. ( if his words , who spoke as never man spake hath any weight with you ) If you will not believe that I am be , you shall die in your sins . However , if notwithstanding of this my labour of love in setting your work before you , that if it it were possible you might repent of this your joynt enterprize against the Person of the Lord Jesus Christ , you shall still continue your opposition against him , and his blessed Gospel preached by his Holy Apostles , and left by them to us upon Record in the Scriptures of truth , and testified unto by me , and shall cast up more reproach against me for the truth sake , I can and do in my heart say , the Lord lay it not to your charge ; Only let me also tell you , your labour will be but in vain : Read 4. Acts 25. compared with the 2. Psal . Why do the Heathen rage , and the people imagine vain things , against the Lord and his Christ ? for of a truth against the Holy Child Jesus whom God anointed , both Herod and Pontius Pilate , with the Gentiles and people of Israel were gathered together ; But the Lord hath set his King upon the holy hill of Sion , and hath declared his decree , and hath said unto him ( as never before nor ever since to or of any man ) thou art my Son , this day have I begotten thee . That I may finish this Discourse I shall only leave these two considerations with the Reader , as being what I intended in my Testimony . First , cheat not thy own Soul by professing in words the Prophets and Apostles Testimony to the man Christ Jesus , as the true Christ , and our only Saviour , and to Redemption through his bloud , while thou art not in any measure a partaker of that living faith , and lively hope , these Holy men lived and dyed in : An Historical bare assent to those truths , with an hypocritical extolling of the Person of Christ in his sufferings , mediation , and offices , as personally without thee , will not avail thee , in the day of the appearance of the Son of man , while thou hast not through a living saith ( being thereby ingrafted in him the true Vine ) a real , substantial evidence within thy self , that thou art in some measure a partaker of his Divine nature , by the workings of the Spirit of God within thee ; which whilst thou slights and rejects , notwithstanding of thy pretences to his death and sufferings , Redemption and Righteousness , thou wilt find it verified on thee , that the hope of the hypocrite shall perish . Secondly , whatsoever Spirit in or through any man ( though even an Angel from Heaven ) shall point you , to any other name or thing , within or without , then to him the man Christ Jesus even that same Jesus whom the Jews Crucified , to be he the Lords Christ our only Saviour ; or shall preach an obedience to be done and performed in our bodies , or by the spirit of God within us , as a ransome , a Sacrifice , an attonement and bloud of the Cross , to be offered up to God for our sins , through which Redemption is to be purchased , Reconcilation made with God , the Law fulfilled , the Curse and condemnation thereof taken away , and Justification for Remission of sins procured as the ground , bottom and cause of our faith hope & confidence in God for Salvation and eternal life , I say Believe him not : For this spirit is no other then a denyer of the true Christ , and of Redemption through faith in him ; setting up another Christ ▪ another Mediatour , then him the man Christ Jesus , whom the holy men of old believed in ; and another attonement , propitiation and bloud , than that one sacrifice of his Crucified body and the bloud of his Cross testified of in the Scriptures ; as already offered up for sins once for all ; preaching him in and through all these only as an example , and as a good man dying without cause by the hands of wicked men ; that we following him ( the light in our Consciences ) in all his Righteousness , might also come to God , as he did , to wit , by an obedience of works , That is to say , without a Mediatour : the dreadful consequence of which Doctrine I tremble to think on . I shall leave these Scriptures to be weighed and examined by such as are intangled in this snare , if their Authority have any room in them , 1 Gal. 6. 7 , 8. 9. I marvell that you are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ , unto another Gospel , which is not another ; but there be some that trouble you , and would pervert the Gospel of Christ . But though we , or an Angel from Heaven , preach any other Gospel then that which we have preached unto you ; then that ye have received , Let him be accursed . And this is the Gospel they preached , Rom. 5. 15 , 19. As by one MANS disobedience many were made sinners , so by the obedience of one MAN Christ Jesus ▪ shall many be made Righteous , 1 Cor. 15. 21 , For since by MAN came death , by MAN also came the Resurrection of the dead . FINIS .