A further discovery of that spirit of contention & division which hath appeared of late in George Keith, &c. being a reply to two late printed pieces of his, the one entituled A loving epistle, &c. the other, A seasonable information, &c. : wherein his cavils are answered, his falshood is laid open, and the guilt and blame of the breach and separation in America, and the reproach he hath brought upon truth and Friends by his late printed books, are fixed faster on him / written by way of epistle ... by Thomas Ellwood. Ellwood, Thomas, 1639-1713. 1694 Approx. 212 KB of XML-encoded text transcribed from 65 1-bit group-IV TIFF page images. Text Creation Partnership, Ann Arbor, MI ; Oxford (UK) : 2003-07 (EEBO-TCP Phase 1). A39305 Wing E623 ESTC R224514 19731472 ocm 19731472 109396 This keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the Early English Books Online Text Creation Partnership. This Phase I text is available for reuse, according to the terms of Creative Commons 0 1.0 Universal . The text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. Early English books online. (EEBO-TCP ; phase 1, no. A39305) Transcribed from: (Early English Books Online ; image set 109396) Images scanned from microfilm: (Early English books, 1641-1700 ; 1698:55) A further discovery of that spirit of contention & division which hath appeared of late in George Keith, &c. being a reply to two late printed pieces of his, the one entituled A loving epistle, &c. the other, A seasonable information, &c. : wherein his cavils are answered, his falshood is laid open, and the guilt and blame of the breach and separation in America, and the reproach he hath brought upon truth and Friends by his late printed books, are fixed faster on him / written by way of epistle ... by Thomas Ellwood. Ellwood, Thomas, 1639-1713. 128 p. Printed by T. Sowle ..., London : 1694. Errata: p. 128. Imperfect: stained. Reproduction of original in the Library of Congress. Created by converting TCP files to TEI P5 using tcp2tei.xsl, TEI @ Oxford. Re-processed by University of Nebraska-Lincoln and Northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. Gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. EEBO-TCP is a partnership between the Universities of Michigan and Oxford and the publisher ProQuest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by ProQuest via their Early English Books Online (EEBO) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). The general aim of EEBO-TCP is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic English-language title published between 1473 and 1700 available in EEBO. 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Keith, George, 1639?-1716. -- Seasonable information and caveat against a scandalous book of Thomas Elwood, called An epistle to Friends, &c. Society of Friends -- Doctrines. 2003-02 TCP Assigned for keying and markup 2003-03 Apex CoVantage Keyed and coded from ProQuest page images 2003-04 Rina Kor Sampled and proofread 2003-04 Rina Kor Text and markup reviewed and edited 2003-06 pfs Batch review (QC) and XML conversion A Further DISCOVERY Of that Spirit of Contention & Division Which hath appeared of late in George Keith , &c. Being a REPLY to Two Late Printed Pieces of his , the one Entituled , A Loving Epistle , &c. the other , A Seasonable Information , &c. Wherein his Cavils are Answered , his Falshood is laid open , and the Guilt and Blame of the Breach and Separation in America ; and of the Reproach he hath brought upon Truth and Friends , by his late Printed Books , are fixed faster on him . Written by way of Epistle , and Recommended as a further Warning to all Friends . By THOMAS ELLWOOD Prov. 22. 10. Cast out the Scorner , and Contention shall go out ; yea , Strife and Reproach shall cease . London , Printed by T. Sowle at the Crooked-Billet in Holy-well-lane , Shoreditch , and near the Meeting-House in White-hart Court in Grace-Church-street . 1694. A Further DISCOVERY Of that Spirit of Contention & Division Which hath appeared of late in G. Keith , &c. Dear Friends , WHO have received the Truth in the love of it , and have kept your Habitation therein ; unto whom the Truth is exceeding precious , and who desire the Prosperity thereof , above all things : Unto you is the Salutation of my endeared love , in this blessed Truth , in which the Fellowship of the Faithful stands . In this it is I desire to know you , to be known by you , and to have Fellowship with you ; earnestly breathing to the God of Truth , the Father of Spirits , that he will be pleased to pour forth more abundantly of his good Spirit into all our Hearts , and fill us with the blessed Fruits thereof ▪ that there may be no room for the Enemy to enter , to break this holy Fellowship : But that all , who profess to believe in the Light , may so walk therein , that a clear sight they may have thereby , and a true discerning between things that diffe●… and may be able to make a right Judgment , what is of God , and what is not ; that so the Design of that Spirit ( by whatsoever Instrumen●… it works ) which would break , or disturb the Churches Peace , and cast Reproach up●… the Heritage of God , may be so discovered and laid open , that all may see and shun it . As this is the Exercise and Travel of my Spirit ; so it is the Service I have been of late , and am at present engaged in . For Friends , It is not many Months , since I saluted you with an Epistle , wherein my Spirit was drawn fort●… ●…fly to Commemorate the gracious Dealings of the Lord with his People ; and , as in a general way , to remind you of the many Attempts the Enemy hath made , by Force and Fraud , to hinder the Work of God from going on : So more particularly , to Warn you to beware of that Spirit of Contention and Division , which hath appeared of late in George Keith , and some few others that join with him , who have made a Breach and Separation from Friends , in some parts of America . In writing that Epistle , I did not consult Flesh and Blood , neither had I an Eye to my own ease and quiet , as outwardly , ( for I had no reason to expect rest from so restless a Man , nor fair Treatment from one , who in his late Writings and personal Debates , hath so notoriously let loose his Pen and Tongue , to an unbridled liberty of Railing and Reviling . ) But I cleared my Conscience , in discharging my Duty to God , and to his Church , and therein have that Peace , which all his Abuses cannot disturb . After that Epistle of mine had been sometime abroad , G. K. published a Sheet of Paper , which he called , A loving Epistle to all the moderate , judicious and impartial among the People called Quakers , &c. In that Sheet he charged me with Fifty Perversions , Forgeries , and false Accusations , which he said he had noted in my Book ; but left his Proofs behind , to come after in another Book , which he then threatned should be published , if my Book was not called in and disowned . Some Weeks after the publishing of that Sheet , he hath now sent forth his threatned Book , pretended to be an Answer to that Epistle of mine , and containing his Proofs , ( such as they are ) of the Charge he had made publick so long before . As soon as I had notice of the coming forth of his last ( which he calls , A Seasonable Information , &c. ) I gave direction for the stopping what I had before written and sent to London ( in Answer to his other Sheet ) chusing rather to make but one work of it , than to multiply Books , as he does ; who ( notwithstanding his alledging , that the Scripture says , Of making many Books there is no end ) seems to have an Itch to writing , and a Pride in Printing . He begins his Epistle with a double or two fold Boast . One of his Labours and Services in the Truth ; to which perhaps I may say ▪ something hereafter . The other , of the considerable Number of those that ( he says ) he has Experience are in true Unity with him . To which , at present , I shall only say , If that were true , the more were the pity . But as I am far from believing it to be true : So I wish ( for his own sake , as well as others ) he may be as much misstaken , concerning the number of his Favourers , as those few that do favour him are , concerning his Sincerity . His second page , and part of his third , is in a manner wholly filled with Railing at me . He says , I labour to take from him his Innocency , and Christian Reputation and Testimony . Of all which , I think he brought but little ( if any ) into England . What stock of each he carried with him into America , he has ( I fear ) made Shipwrack of there . He charges me with a sordid way of Sophist●…l Wrangling , Perversions , Forgeries , and false Accusations , to the number of Fifty , and upwards . This Charge he sent abroad in his Printed Epistle , in general Terms , without instancing the Particulars ; which he kept in reserve , to furnish out another Book . But was not this a sordid way of Sophistical Wrangling in him , thus to Charge , without making Proof ? How often and highly does he complain , in several of his former Treatises , of being charged in generals , without producing particular Proofs ? In his Plea of the Innocent , p. 8. He , with others of his Party , say , Seeing their Accusations against G. K. lye much in bare generals , we see no cause further to take notice of them , — but to shew , that for want of particular matter against him , they thus labour to defame him in bare generals ; a way ( says he ) common to all Sophisters and false Acc●…ers . Did he not then take the way which he says is common to all Sophisters and false Accusers , when he accused me in bare generals , without producing the Particulars ? Did he not take the most deceitful way he could , when he accused me in bare generals , seeing himself says , ( p. 17. of his Plea ) Nothing is more deceitful than bare generals ? It will not excuse him , that he has now at length , in another Treatise , set forth the Particulars of his Charge ; that being but ( to use his own Phrase ) like Mustard after Meat . If he had intended to deal fairly , he should either have brought his Proofs with his Charge , or kept his Charge , till he could find his Proofs . But so far was he from that , that he expected his Reader should give Judgment against me , upon his general Accusation , without proof ( for Generals , he says , prove nothing ; Causless Ground of Surmises , p. 2. ) Hear how he bespeaks it . I appeal , says he , to all moderate , judicious and impartial Persons , called Quakers , Whether T. E. hath not shewed himself as a Man hurried and carried away as with a Tempest and impetuous Current of prejudice against me , not only to heap so many Perversions ; Misrepresentations , Forgeries and false Accusations against me ; but , &c. This is in his Loving Epistle , before he had brought forth the Instances to prove his Charge by . So that the moderate , judicious and impartial Persons he appealed to ▪ wore to take it for granted , upon his bare and general Accusation , that I had heaped so many Perversions , Forgeries , &c. against him : How else could they answer his Appeal ? By this , Friends , ye may see what he meant by moderate , judicious and impartial Persons , viz. Such as would give Judgment upon his Accusation , in bare generals , then , and take his word for proof , till his other Book should come forth . But no such Persons will he ever find , I hope , among the Quakers . Yet that this was his expectation and desire , that other passage , in the close of his Epistle , proves beyond doubting . Where threatning to publish his Answer to mine ( in which he said he had noted Fifty of my Perversions , &c. ) he does it with this Reserve and Proviso , If nothing be done forthwith by that Party that hath approved and promoted his Book , to call it in and disown it . This plainly shews , he expected Friends should have called in and disowned my Book , upon his bare and general Accusation , without seeing the Fifty Perversions , &c. he talked of , or hearing what they were . For the calling in , and disowning my Book , was proposed by him as an Expedient , to prevent his publishing the Proofs of that Accusation , upon which he would have had it called in and disowned : But did he herein like a Christian ? Like a Wise Man ? Like a Scholar ? Or at all like a Man ? Surely , more discretion , at least , if not Iustice , was expected from George Keith : And the truly moderate , judicious and impartial will easily see , that he hath used those Epithets but artificially , and to deceive . He is in great Confusion , in this part of his Work. For he calls his Book a just and necessary Defense of the Truth , as well as of himself ; and yet he is fain to intreat and request , over and over , his moderate , judicious and impartial Persons , and that ●…nestly too , to excuse him , and not be offended with him for it . Surely , if he believed , what he writ was a just and necessary defense of the Truth , he might have trusted it boldly with the moderate , judicious and impartial , without begging their Excuse , or fearing to offend them . He goes on thus against me , p. 3. But when he cannot heap up so many Perversions , &c. ) as he would , he goes about by an Art of wrangling and sophistry of Words , to prove me guilty , when his Evidence in matter of Fact doth utterly fail him ; ( of this he gives no Instance neither , but says I do it ) even as a Man would go before an Assize to prove one guilty of Theft or Felony , by false Syllogisms , when his Evidence is short in matter of Fast , thus arguing against an innocent Person ; some Man is a Thief , but A B , is some Man , therefore A. B. is a Thief . Upon this he enters a new Appeal ( not so restrained as before , to the moderate , judicious and impartial ; but more at large ) I appeal , says he , to all that know the Truth ( of which , he knows , there are , besides himself , too many that do not walk in it ) whether this sort of Sophistical Arguing , doth Agree to that Simplicity of Truth , and plainness both of Doctrine and Practice , that we generally have professed . This shews he is well versed in the Fallacies of Logick , and is ready at making false Syllogisms : and it also shews his unfair dealing . For , Friends , I appeal to you , who not only know the Truth , but dwell and walk in it , whether I have used such sort of Arguing against him , as he hath here charged me with ? He says , I go about , by an Art of wrangling , and sophistry of words , to prove him guilty , when my Evidence in matter of Fact doth utterly fail me : And he says , I do this , even as a Man would go before an Assize to prove one guilty of Felony , by false Syllogisms , when his Evidence is short in matter of Fact , thus arguing against an innocent Person , some Man is a Thief , but A. B. is some Man , therefore A. B. is a Thief , Friends , my Book , out of which he pretends to make this Charge against me , is in your hands ; pray search and examine it throughly : see if you can find any such false syllogism in it , or any such manner of Arguing as he hath here taxed me with . If ye cannot ( as I am sure ye cannot ) then pray reflect your thoughts upon G. Keith , and consider seriously what a sort of Man he must be , to deal thus Injuriously with both you and me . Hath not he himself acted like a Man that should go before an Assize , to accuse an innocentPerson of some heinous Crime , and though he brough no evidence to convict him by , should yet press to have ●…im condemned , on pretence that he has Evidences at home , and will bring them sometime 〈◊〉 ? Sure I am , such Dealing is very far from the Simplicity , plainness and justice of Truth ▪ which we profess : Yet so , ye may see , he hath dealt by me in that Epistle of his . He ●…aks of some , in his Third page , who , he says , have plucked out their Eyes , and given them away to such as would deceive them . How he should know that some have done so , unless they have brought their Eyes to him to keep for them , I who have kept my Eyes to my self , don't see . But questionless , if he knows any such , that have pluct out their Eyes , and given them away to such as would deceive them , it must be to them he made his Appeal before he brought his Prooss : for none , he might be sure , that had Eyes in their heads , and knew how to use them , would give Judgment upon his Appeal before they had seen his Proofs . His mentioning how much Friends have been warned to beware lest any spoil them through Philosophy and vain Deceit , and impose upon them by the Wisdom of words , gives me occasion to say , If he had been wary , and not suffered himself to be spoyled through deceit and vain Philosophy , he would not have so far shamed himself , by imposing upon others , as he too often does , by words without Wisdom . In his Third p. he hath a fling at the second days morning Meeting in London , which , ye know , consists mostly of Ministring Friends , with whom he is seldom pleased . At this time his quarrel with that Meeting is for authorizing or allowing my Book to come out . Yet that he may keep steady to his Intention of Dividing , he deals with that Meeting , as he did before with the Yearly Meeting , representing this also to be what he would have it , divided into Parties . He says of my Book , that it came out Authorized or allowed , either by the second days Meeting at London , or at least by a Leading or Prevailing Party of them . I mention this , Friends , not that I think there needs any Refutation of it ( the Falsness thereof being so well known : ) but that all may see his Splitting Design , and none may give way thereto . In the same page he casts a wicked Scoff at that Meeting , thus . And must all this , says he , be fathered upon the Spirit of God ? It being their constant pretension to have the Spirit of God Directing and assisting them in all their Chambers Affairs and Meetings . This needs no Comment neither , Friends , it is enough but to repeat it , ye cannot but savour what Spirit it came from . The rest of his Third page , and so on , almost to the end of his Sheet , he spends in quibbling on a Passage in my Book , p. 49. where to shew the emptiness of his great Boast , That notwithstanding the Objections , and severe Accusations , that some have made against his late Books , and a strict Examination of them by some that had so complained , there is not any Line or Sentence in any of them , that they have made to appear to contain any Untruth or Falshood in them , either in matter of Doctrine or Fact ; I said This has nothing of Note in it : For ( supposing it were true in Fact , that no Untruth or Falshood in matter of Fact had been discovered in his Books ) it was not the proper business of the Yearly Meeting ( which here , as elsewhere , he strikes at ) to judge of the matters of Fact contained in his Books , which were alledged to have been done in America , by Persons not here to answer to , or give account of them . From the former part of these words ( contained in the first Parenthesis ) he would fain strain such a Concession , as might justifie all the Matters contained in his Books . He says , p. 4. I have been so liberal to him , to grant , by way of supposition , all those particulars which he there enumerates ( comprehending , I think , the substance of his Scandalous Books written in America ) and his Books to contain nothing , yet discovered , of Untruth or Falshood . This he calls my liberal Concession , and is so fond of the word , that he repeats it no less than seven times in his fifth page . He knew , I perceive , the need he had of a Concession , and a liberal one too ; but he should not have been so liberal to himself , in making Concessions from my words , to his own advantage , against the plain sense of my words , and of my mind : For , I assure him , if I had made him such a Concession as he pretends to , it would have been as far from my intention , as from his Desert . But let us see , whether there be such a Concession , or no , in those words of mine . A Concession is a Grant , and differs much from a Supposition , whence arises that usual Form of Speech , Supposing , but not Granting ( which is implied even where it is not exprest . ) Now , Friends , if ye observe my words in the place before quoted ( p. 49. of my former Epistle ) ye will find , I do not say Granting it to be true in Fact , but supposing it were true in Fact. I was so far from Granting it to be true in Fact , that I did not so much as suppose it to be t●…e in Fact , but said , supposing it were true in Fact , which implies it was not true in Fact , and plainly proves I did not grant it to be true in Fact , no not so much as by supposition . And in the very next Sentence , I affirmed that there is Untruth or Falshood in his Books , in matter of Fact , and that it was made appear , and wherein . This was far from a Concession , Grant , or Allowance , that all the Matters of Fact mentioned in his Books are true . Nay , to prevent any such Misapprehension , I added this Caution , p. 50. Therefore let none think that because the Yearly Meeting did not declare the Matters of Fact in his Books to be false , therefore they are all true . They remain to be proved by him that has affirmed them , and to be answered by them who are charged therein . Ye see now Friends , how far I was from granting the Matters of Fact in his Books to be true , and what little ground he had for his great glorying in that which he calls my liberal Concession . By which if he gain any thing with the Ignorant , he will lose more with the Iudicious , who by this will see him to be a meer Sophister , and conclude his Cause to be bad indeed , that hath driven so able a Man ( in his own Opinion , as well as in the Opinion of some others ) to make use of so mean a shift , which a true Scholar would have been ashamed of . He charges me also with contradicting the Yearly Meeting , in saying , It was not the proper business of that Meeting to judge of the Matters of Fact , contained in his Books , &c. And he would hence infer , that the Yearly Meeting both medled and judged in that which was not their proper business . But in this he deals unfairly and weak ly , as well as in the former . For ye may see , Friends , in the fore-quoted place of my Epistle , p. 49 , 50. the Matters of Fact I there say , it was not the proper business of the Yearly Meeting to judge , were such as were alledged to have been done in America , by Persons not here to answer to , or give account of them . For which reason that Meeting did forbear to give Judgment in those Matters , though they could not forbear to hear them , being complicated with others , and related or read together . But it doth not thence follow , that that Meeting had not power to judge of those Matters , which were of themselves , or by his Books , apparent to the Meeting , and which did not depend upon the Proofs or Defences of absent Persons . Such as are the Breach and Division he has made in America , the separate Meetings he has set up , or caused to be set up there , ( of which his own Books give Proofs sufficient ) the scandalous Books he has written there , and which have been published both there , here and else where , to the great dishonour of God , defamation of our holy Profession , and reproach and grief of Friends . He would also squeeze some advantage to himself out of that saying of mine in my former Epistle , p. 72. That the way to recover the Deceived , is to discover , lay open , and witness against the Deceivers . From hence he would fain justifie himself for publishing his abusive and scandalous Books . But this will not yield him any defence , unless he could prove them Deceivers , whom in those Books he hath written against . Which he no otherwise here attempts to do , than by begging it from that which he calls my liberal Concession : For thus he says , p. 7. By his liberal Concession , supposing it to be true in matter of Fact that I have charged upon some Preachers in America , as above-mentioned , they are Deceivers . But he should have remembred the Rule , supposition proves nothing ; and not have built upon a supposed Concession , which hath no Foundation , but in his own Imagination . However , though that Assertion of mine , [ That the way to recover the Deceived , is to discover , lay open , and witness against the Deceivers ] will not stand him in stead : Yet it is true , and will stand the Truth in stead against him , and all that turn against it . And by it all ( that have not pluckt out their Eyes , and given them to him ) may see , that what he suggests of the Yearly Meeting and me , that we would have vile and gross Errors , &c. Covered and Cloaked , is a vile and gross Slander and Calumny of his . Thus , Friends , I have gone through his Epistle , and toucht , I think , the most material parts of it . In which , if I would have imitated his Example , I might probably have picks up as many real Perversions , Forgeries and false Accusations , out of that one Sheet ; as he hath feigned ones out of my Epistle of near Five Sheets . But I will not imitate his Trifling . I come now to his other Book , called , A Seasonable Information , &c : wherein he pretends to set forth Fifty Perversions , &c. which in his former Sheet he said he had noted in my Book , most of which are so idle and silly , that he has rendred himself not ably ridiculous in noting them . But before he comes at them , he suggests , in his Introduction , that I printed that Book in great disunity , and against the mind of many Friends , although approved and promoted by a Party equally prejudiced ( he says ) against him for his faithful Christian Testimony to the Truth of Christ. Now Friends , although his Falshood in this is sufficiently known to many Friends in London ; yet because his Books are usually spread ( by the help of other Separatists ) into divers parts of this Kingdom , as well as beyond the Seas , I think fit , for the information of all Friends every where , to let you know how I proceeded therein . After I had written that Book , called , An Epistle to Friends , I went up to London with it , and presented it to the Second Days Morning Meeting , where such Writings of Friends , as are intended for the Press , are to be read and considered . I read it throughout in that Meeting : And , to the best of my remembrance , there was not one Friend there , ( though the Meeting was pretty full ) that shewed any disunity therewith , or made any exception against it ; but the Meeting left me to my freedom , for the publishing thereof , which ye may be sure they would not have done , had they had disunity therewith . So that I took , ( as I conceive ) the right way and method , in publishing that Epistle , and proceeded in the same course , that all Friends do , who stand in unity with the Body of Friends , when they have any thing to Print . And though one Friend ( who did not hear it read , nor uses to be at that Meeting ) meeting me casually in the Street , after it was in the Press , would have disswaded me from printing it at that time ; and , as I have heard , one or two other Friends ( who do not use to go to that Meeting neither ) when it was well nigh finished , finding what a heat and fret the report of it had put G. K. into , did move to have the publication thereof deferred for a while , to see if they could bring G. K. to a better mind : Yet no Friend , either then , or since , to this day , hath signified to me any disunity with the Book , or with me for publishing it . But if ●…had gone out of the way of unity , in the publishing that Book , was G. K. of all Men , fit to charge me with it , who himself has not set one foot therein , in the publishing any of the Pamphlets he hath written , since he came into England , to say nothing here of his other Scandalous Books written in America ? Hath he offered any of his late Books to the Judgment of that Meeting , to which I brought mine , and other Friends bring theirs , and he ( I suppose ) formerly , while he stood in Unity with Friends , used to bring his ? Nay , did he not publish his Book , called , The Causless Ground of Surmises , &c. not only not with , but against the Unity , and against the Judgment even of those Friends , whom he himself made choice of privately to shew it to ? But why give I instances here of his disunion with Friends , of whose Unity with Friends no instance can be given ? I proceed to his Fifty Perversions , &c. The First is , That I falsly ( he says ) accuse him ( in my Title Page ) of a Spirit of Contention and Division , that ( I say ) hath lately appeared in him , and some few others that join with him , who have made a Breach and Separation from Friends in America . That a Spirit of Contention and Division hath of late appeared in him , and some few others that join with him , is a thing so apparently seen , and known to them that converse with him , or read his late Contentious Books , that he might , with like modesty , deny the shining of the Sun at Noon in the clearest Day . And that he and they have made a Breach and Separation from Friends in America , is so fully proved upon him in my last , that I am well content to leave it to the Readers Judgment . And whereas he says , Those , I call some few , are about sixteen Meetings : I say , If that be true ( which I question ) his Guilt is the greater , in having misled so many . His Second Charge he takes out of my ninth Page , where he says , I falsly accuse him , that he blames Friends , that they were gone too much from the Outward to the Inward . This he says , is a downright Forgery , and that he never blamed any for going too much to the inward . But in this he hath perverted my words . For I did not say he blamed Friends for going too much to the Inward , but for going too much from the Outward to the Inward . The words [ too much ] there related to their going from the Outward ; which in the following words , I shewed , saying , For G. K 's Complaint and Charge is , That Friends do not preach the Outward Appearance and Manifestation of Christ in the Flesh enough , or oft enough . I did not say his Complaint was , that they preached the Inward Appearance of Christ too much ; but that they did not preach his Outward Appearance enough , or oft enough . And that he did so , he himself proves in p. 10. of his last Book , where he says , I have blamed some Persons for not rightly and fully preaching Christ Without , &c. His saying in the same place , that from my manner of charging him , it plainly appears , as well as from the words of some others , that it was our sense , To preach Christ without , and Faith in him , it draws from the inward , &c. is a gross Perversion and false Accusation in him , as appears from my following words in that ninth page of my former Epistle , where I say to Friends , Ye know this Charge of his to be false , and that the Testimony of Truth hath always been acknowledged and born by Friends from the beginning , as occasion has offered , to the Outward Manifestation and Appearance of Christ , as well as to the Inward . His Third Charge is , That I falsly and unjustly charge him with Robert Hannay 's Book , as if it were his , both for Matter and Style , and that I cast it upon him . For this he cunningly quotes my 15th . page , where I say least of it ; ( for there I only said , Considering the manner of that Pamphlet's coming forth , the Matter and Style thereof , and his refusing to disown it , I shall leave it ( my Friends ) to your impartial Judgment , whether the Reflections contained in that Pamphlet against the Yearly Meeting , are not justly to be charged upon him . ) But in my 11th . and 12th . pages , speaking of it , I said , How far G. K. had an hand , or was concerned , in the Writing of that Book , I will not here say . But I may say , the matter of the Queries in that Book , is so much the same with the matter of the other Book publisht soon after with G. K's Name to it , and the Style thereof so agreeable to his Style , in that and his other Writings , that whoever shall take him for the Author of it , will , I think , be very excusable , though he should prove in part mistaken . And a little after , But in as much as they are both of a Party , and R. Hannay is at G. K's right Hand in his Work of Contention and Division , and G. K. ( though often put upon it ) hath not publickly disowned that Pamphlet , which R. H's Name is to , I do not think I shall wrong G. K. ( as indeed I would not ) in supposing him to have at least a share therein , &c. This was uot directly charging him with it , nor casting it upon him . Yet I declare , I am more strongly now perswaded that he had the greatest hand in it , than I was before . For mark but what he now says , p. 10. As I had no hand in the Printing it , but was against it ; so diverse things in it , that seemed to some most offensive , I was not concerned in . He does not say he had no hand in the Writing it ; but he had no hand in the Printing it ( that is , he did not actually work at the Press ; ) but was against it , he says ; That proves he was privy to the Printing , how else could he be against it ? Next he says , he was not concern'd in divers things in it ; does not that imply he was concerned in the main ? And lastly , the divers things he says he was not concerned in , were those that seemed most offensive to some , he does not say they seem'd most offensive to him . See now , whether he has any whit mended the matter , in clearing himself of being a Party ( at least ) to that Book , and consequently guilty of that Insincerity , which in my last I charged upon him . His Fourth Charge is , That I not only falsly accuse him , but am guilty of an absolute Forgery and Fiction in matter of Fact , That he refused to go out at the Yearly Meeting in Philadelphia , held in the Seventh Month , 1691 , and that his refusal to go out was the occasion of their delay to give Iudgment against W. Stockdale , for which , as a proof , I cite his Book , called , Some Reasons and Causes , &c. p. 14. In this I acknowledge a mistake on my part ; not in saying , he refused to go out at the Yearly Meeting in Philadelphia , ( for that I understand he did : ) But my mistake was , in referring to a place in his Book for Proof of this , when as that place , it seems , related not to that Yearly Meeting , but to a Quarterly Meeting . In which mistake , I think I am the more excusable , being led into it by his obscure way of Writing . For neither in that 14th . page of his said Book , called , Some Reasons , &c. ( formerly quoted by me , ) Nor in the 18th . page of the same ( now quoted by himself ) is there any Day , Month , or Year set , wherein either the Quarterly or Yearly Meeting was held . And whereas he quotes his 18th . page to prove he did go out as the Yearly Meeting ; there is a Fallacy in that : ●…r there being ( as he notes ) Six Meetings in 〈◊〉 time of the Yearly Meeting , he did go out at ●…me or one of them , but refused to go out at the ●…st . But he is too eager , in calling this a Forgery an absolute Forgery and Fiction , a gross Forgery , ( so he endeavours to aggravate it ) and that too in matter of Fact. For the matter of Fact is , that he did refuse to go out of the Meeting , wherein his Charge and Proofs against W. Stockdale were to be considered of , though he was by the Meeting desired to withdraw . Whether that Meeting was Yearly , or Quarterly , and on what Day , or in what Month it was held , or where , are but Circumstances of Time and Place . The matter of Fact , viz. That he did refuse to go out , at the Meeting 's desire , is true , and proved by his own Confession , not only in the place before quoted by me ( though misapplied there as to the particular Meeting ) but even in this last Book also , p. 11. where he acknowledges his refusal to go out , and gives the same reason for it , as he gave before in his former . But to make him amends for my former mistake , I will now put him in mind , that not at that Quarterly Meeting only , but at another Meeting also , where , it seems , his Complaint was depending , he refused to go forth , though desired by the Meeting , and that by his own Confession , in his Book called , Some Reasons , &c. p. 18. to which he has now referr'd me , and thereby helped me to this additional Proof against him . There he brings it in with a Note thus ; Note , That whereas it hath been said by some , That they would have dealt with these men , who have been guilty of those Errors , but that G. K. would not go forth , being desired to withdraw at the Meeting at R. E's , and at the Quarterly Meeting . To which his Answer is , That G. K. had good reason not to withdraw at Both these times . This , I hope , proves the matter of Fact , in both points , both that he refused to withdraw , though desired , and that at two several Meetings , while his Charge and Proofs were to have been considered of ; and that his so refusing did delay or hinder the Meeting from dealing ( as they otherwise would have done ) with those he had accused . And thus his Charge of Forgery , absolute Forgery , gross Forgery , double Forgery , with which he hath made such a vaunting Flourish , falls to the Ground . And I might , ( if I had his Forehead ) recharge him with Forgery , in saying , I charged him with refusing to go out at the Yearly Meeting in Philadelphia , held in the Seventh Month 1691. which last words , relating to the time of it , are not in my Book . But I need no such little Tricks , though he doth . His Fifth Charge he takes out of p. 22. of mine , where I inferr'd from the Judgment given by the Yearly Meeting against W. S. That that Meeting was not at a stand ( as G. K. abusively represents them ) to determine whether the Doctrine was true or false : But , if they were at a stand at all , it was to determine whether the Charge exhibited by G. K. against W. S. was true or false ; W. S. both then ( and to his dying day ) denying that he spake those words , which G. K. charged him with . This he says , I falsly alledge , and that he has fully proved the contrary , urging for his Proof , that in the Iudgment that Meeting gave , they grant , That Proof was made by Two Witnesses , that the Charge exhibited was true ; and if they had been at a stand on that Point , it is not like that they would have given any Iudgment against him at all . This is ●…o Proof at all , that they were not at a stand and did demur whether the Charge exhibited were true or no. For though they might have great reason to doubt the Truth of the Evidence of those two witnesses , who were both known to be strong in Party with G. K. and great adversaries to W. S. and might thence have just cause to suspend their Judgment for a while , and take the longer time to examine , sift and try the matter to the utmost : Yet unless W. S. could have disproved that Evidence , the Meeting could not well do other than give Judgment according to the Evidence , though they might not have compleat satisfaction of the Veracity of the Witnesses . For even in worldly Courts ( where Justice is to be exceeded by the Disciples of Christ ) Judgment is to be given ( Secundum Allegata & Probata ) according to what is alledged and proved ; and often is so , where yet the truth of the Evidence is much doubted , and sometimes wholy disbelived by the Court that gives it . Here then his hold fails him . Ye may remember , Friends , that in my former Epistle , p. 20 , &c. to manifest that G. K. quarrelled with that Yearly Meeting at Philadelphia , and published his Anathema's against them without just cause , I shewed from his own Books , That that Meeting , did not only receive his Charge against W. S. but did give a determination therein , a Judgment against W. S. Under this I perceive G. K. lies very uneasy , and would fain cast it off , that he might have some colourable pretence for his disorderly casting off that Meeting . First , he cavils at them for not publishing their Iudgment till nine Months after . How to understand that , I cannot well tell : for if , as he says , that Yearly Meeting was held in the Seventh Month , 1691. it was not 9. Months to the adjourned monthly Meeting in the Twelth Month 1691. nor full Six neither : And yet it should seem to have been published before that , because in the Judgment of that Meeting , this Judgment of the Yearly Meeting was in part recited . Next he finds fault with the Excuse he says they make for not publishing it sooner , which was that they were prevented by reason of his unruly Behaviour , and extream Passion . This he calls a most deceitful pretence . What other Causes of delay they might have in publishing their Judgment , I know not ; but that this was one , I am the more easily induced to believe , from what I my self observed of his Unruly behaviour , and extream Passion in our late Yearly Meeting at London , of which , Friends , many of you were grieved Witnesses , as well as I. He asks , in the next place , why they contradicted the sound Iudgment of a Monthly Meeting at Philadelphia , passing due Censure upon W. S. Six Months thereafter ? Methinks this doth not sound , as if it came from a sound Iudgment . Is it proper to say , that he or they that give a Judgment now , do contradict that Judgment that shall or may be given by others Six Months hence . If they gave their Judgment at that Yearly Meeting , near Six Months before the other Judgment ( if that was another ) was given , how then can the first be said to contradict the latter , when the latter was not in being when the First was given . One would think if there be Contradiction in the two Judgments , the latter should rather contradict the former . But to speak plain my sense of them , according to what I have seen of them both , in his Books , I do not find that either of them contradicts the other ; but that the latter Judgment ( to wit that of the adjourned Meeting ) reciting , at least in part , the former Judgment of the Yearly Meeting , doth ( for ought I see ) approve it , and carry it on further . Yet he says , of that Judgment of the Yearly Meeting , it is Sufficiently apparent from this ( viz. it s contradicting , I think he means , the Judgment of the adjourned Meeting , which had no being till about Six Months after ) it was no cordial , nor Sincere Iudgment . But let me ask him , if this was not a sincere Judgment , but , as he also calls it , Hypocritical , how came it to pass that his adjourned Meeting , which he celebrates for giving sound Judgment , and says they gave it Sincerely , not only recited part of this Judgment , but built theirs upon it ? For thus in his Reasons of the Separation p. 11. he has delivered their Judgment to us . Whereas W. — having formerly accused G. K. with preaching two Christs , and the Charge and matter having been fully debated at the last Yearly Meeting , before publick Friends , and others , who did deliver it as their Sense and Judgment , that the said W. — had abused G. K. thereby , and that G. K's . Doctrine was right and true in his preaching Faith in Christ within , and Faith in Christ without , &c. See here the Basis upon which they build their Judgment . Would they build their Judgment upon an insincere , hypocritical Judgment , methinks it should not become G. K. to fasten such a foul Blemish upon his adjourned Meeting , which he Praises so highly for giving sound Judgment , and that sincerely . Another Objection he makes against that Yearly Meeting , that they did not all that time intervening , bring W. S. to any Conviction , but mightily supported him as an innocent Person . Can any one believe this , viz. that they mightily supported him as an innocent Person , who at the same time shall read in G. K's own Books , that they delivered it as their Sense and Iudgment , that he had abused G. K. and that he was reproveable and blame-worthy , & c ? But as for G. K's . saying , They did not bring W. S. to any Conviction ( which he very often repeats ) I know not well what to make of it . I know he understands Words well enough , when he is cool : Which makes me question whether his Heat has not transported him beyond his understanding . If he means that they did not bring him to an inward Sense , and Conviction in himself , that he had done or said Evil , they cannot be justly blamed for that , since that is not in the power of Man to do , and if W. S. knew himself innocent ( as , it seems , to the last , he affirm'd he was ) it was not possible they could bring him to such a Conviction ; nor do I find , the sound Judgment , as G. K. calls it , of the adjourned Meeting ( how sincerely soever given ) wrought that Effect on him , any more than the Judgment of the Yearly Meeting had done . But if he means by Conviction , ( according to the usual acceptation of the Word , especially in Judicial Proceedings , ) a proving him guilty by the Evidence of Witnesses , it is to be hoped , they brought him to some sort of Conviction that way , before they gave Sentence of Condemnation upon him ; nay , it appears by G. K's own Book they did . Yet G. K. says , they did not bring him to any Conviction . G. K. will needs have it , that the determination given by the Yearly Meeting against W. S. was not sincere : Yet because he cannot make it out , he first begs the Question , and then offers a precarious Proof . Thus he doth it , in answer to my saying , A Determination then , it seems , was given , by his own acknowledgment . I answer , says he , seeing it was not sincere , but hypocritical ( there he begs the Question : ) as appears , says he , by their contradicting the Iudgment of the Monthly Meeting that gave it sincerely and duly . ( There 's his precarious Proof . ) But first , how does it appear that the Yearly Meeting , ( about Six Months before the Monthly Meeting , as he calls it , gave any Judgment at all ) contradicted the Judgment which that Meeting gave near Six Months after ? Secondly , how does it appear that his Monthly Meeting gave their Judgment sincerely and duly ? Why , Ipse Tixit , he has affirm'd it ; and they that will believe it may : But the best on 't is , they that will not believe it , upon his bare word , may chuse , and I know not how he will help himself . But is it not strange , that so strong a Man should argue so weakly ? He repeats also , the Yearly Meeting 's publishing their Judgment Nine Months after , and he thereupon calls it an Abortive , out of due time . But I doubt the Women , that read that , will smile at him , for calling a Birth of Nine Months , an Abortive . He objects also , p. 12. that when they published it , they did not own the words spoken to be any offence against God , or Christ , but to sound and tender Friends . But if this was so great an offence in the Yearly Meeting , what will he say for his Adjourned Meeting , who in their Judgment , as he has given it , do not own ( to use his own word , I should else have said declare ) the words spoken by W. S. to be any offence against God , or Christ , or to sound or tender Friends either . So that they went not so far in expressing the offence , as the Yearly Meeting did , and yet he calls theirs a sound Judgment , and given sincerely . But where is the soundness of his Judgment , and his sincerity the mean while ? His Sixth Charge against me is thus worded . He falsly and most fictitiously alledgeth , That Tho. Fitzwater sufficiently proved his Charge against me , for which he refers to my own Books ; but this is a great Forgery , for his Charge was , That I denied the sufficiency of the Light , and this his Four Credible Witnesses did not prove against me , but it was quite another thing that the Monthly Meeting of the other side alledgeth , they proved against me , viz. That I did not believe the Light was sufficient without something else . Where 's the great Forgery here ? If there be any , it will lye at his Door , for reporting me to have alledged that T. Fitzwater sufficiently proved his Charge , &c. whereas my words are , It seems T. F. sufficiently proved the words he charged G. K. with speaking , and so I think it will seem to any one that considers the words charged , and the words proved . The words charged were , That he denied the sufficiency of the Light : The words proved were , that he did not believe the Light was sufficient without something else : And these last words , he says , is quite another thing than the former ; so that according to him , not sufficient without something else , is quite another thing than , not sufficient . But I think it will be hard for him to make that sufficiently out . Nor doth the asserting the sufficiency of the Light , exclude ( as he would fallaciously infer ) the Man Christ without us : For the Man Christ without us , in his glorified state , in which he is united with the Godhead , is Light. And though G. K. to compass his Design , doth cunningly slide in the word within ; yet he knows it was not in the words charged , nor in the words proved : The Charge was , That he denied the sufficiency of the Light. The Proof was , that he did not believe the Light was sufficient without something else . Here was the Light mentioned indefinitely ; not a word of within : And therefore he does not fairly , nor like a Disputant , to thrust it in afterwards . His charging me with excluding the Man Christ without us , is an abuse ; and his telling me of Ieffery Bullock , an idle Bugbear . He has clear'd me himself , beyond what he is able to asperse me with , by Citing those Passages out of a former Book of mine , called , The Foundation of Tythes shaken , p. 238. where , in answer to my Opponent , a Priest , that had in Print affirmed , That some Quakers ( slighting the Merit and Necessity of Christ's Death ) ascribe Salvation to the following the Light within ; I rejected his Charge , and in the Name of the Quakers denied it ; putting him to Name those Quakers , and solemnly declaring I knew no such . Then added , Nor do the Quakers ascribe Salvation to the following the Light within , but they ascribe Salvation to Christ Jesus , to whom the Light within doth lead those that truly follow it . And in p. 240. I said , If any one expects Remission of Sins by any other way than the Death of Christ , he renders the Death of Christ useless . These Passages G. K. hath now Cited , in his Seasonable Information , p. 12. and that with approbation , ( save only that he would have the word Only added to the Light within ; which , to gratifie him , I am content to do , thereby expressing what was before implied : ) And as this was my Judgment and Testimony then ; so it is now : Which sufficiently clears me from his slanderous Suggestion , that I exclude the Man Christ without us , from having any part or concern in our Salvation . And truly , Friends , by his thus dealing with me , I have a great guess at his way of dealing with Friends in America , and after what manner he has gathered up the gross and vile Errors , and Damnable Heresies , and Doctrines of Devils he so liberally charges them with ; and so I hope will ye too , upon the reading of this . I hope , Friends , I have clear'd this Point to your Satisfa●…on , and made it appear , by what the Yea●…y Meeting did in hearing G. K's . Complaint and Charge against W. S. and in giving Ju●…gment , according to Evidence , in the Case both of W. S. and T. F. George Keith had no just Cause or ●…und to Anathematize that Meeting , and Write and Print against it , in that reproachful manner he has done , to the dishonour of Truth , and sc●…al of his Profession , the Guilt of w●…ch ly●…s upon him , and will lye on him till he repent thereof . In his Seventh Charge he says , I falsly alledge , that ●…e 〈◊〉 the ●…eginning of the Separation at Ph●…delphia , from somes going away at the Monthly Meeti●… , the Day before the Adjourned Meeting ; and upon th●… Fou●…dation of Forgery ( so he calls it ) I build , he says , a false super-structure ; for though ( says he ) some going a●…ay from that Monthly Meeting , was 〈◊〉 preparation to the Separation , yet I did not recko●…●…t the beginning of it , but their going away at the Adjourned Meeting the next Day following ; where ( he says ) three great Instances of their beginning ●…he Separation , appeared . First , Their disow●…ing the Meeti●…g . Secondly , Upon that Foundation , their going away . Thirdly , Their denying the Iudgment of that Me●…ting to be a true Meeti●…g , and ref●…sing to suffer it to be recorded . In this he has dealt unfairly with me . For he charges me with saying , That he accounts the beginning of the Separation at Philadelphia , from fomes going away at the Monthly Meeting , the Day before the Adjourned Meeting ; and there he stops ( as if I had made him to account that only , the beginning of the Sepa●…tion ) ▪ and then 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 this a Foundation of Forgery . Whe●… I joi●… that , and the Quarterly M●…ting's denying the ●…djourned Meeting to be a 〈◊〉 Monthly Meeti●…g , ●…gether , saying thu●… , ( as 〈◊〉 ▪ ●…ay se●… i●… ▪ 〈◊〉 ▪ 23. ( not 25. as he quote●… it ) of my 〈◊〉 ▪ ) I remember indeed , he a●…ged ( in 〈◊〉 Yearly Meeting at , London ) Tha●… at a Monthly M●…eting in Philadelphia , T. Lloyd ●…nt a●… ▪ and took away a Ski●…t , or Wi●…g ( a●… h●… 〈◊〉 it ) of the Meeting with him ; and that tha●…●…eeting afterwards Adjourning it self to another Time and Pl●…ce , wa●… denyed by the ●…terly Meeting to be a right 〈◊〉 ▪ 〈◊〉 ; and this ( said I there ) he 〈◊〉 have taken f●…●…e beginning of the Separation . Th●… ; ●…t only so●… going away fro●… the ▪ Monthl●…●…eeting before the Adjourn●…t , but the denying the Adjourned Meeting to be a right Monthly M●…eting : And he himself gives that now ( as he did the other also , in his r●…lation of it at t●…●…rly Meeting , though he now disowns it ) ●…mong his three great Instances of their beginni●… the Separation , viz. Their disowning the ●…eeting ▪ ●…heir denying the Judgment of th●…t M●…ting , a●…d 〈◊〉 to suffer it to be Re●…orded . ( Fo●… as for his saying , Their denying the Judgment of that Meeting to be a true Meeting , I have not Judgment enongh to make common sen●… of it : For I under●…and not how the Judgment of a Meeting can be said to be a Meeting . ) He ●…ys , But , that the Meeting could not Adjourn , be●…ause the Book and the Clark was gone , is so ridiculous , that 't is not worth mentioning ; though that 's the chief , or rather the only Reason given by T. E. Shall I call this a Forgery , or a Pe●…sion ▪ I am sure 't is a foul one , which soever it be . For I no where said , The Meeting could not ad●…ourn , because the Book and the Clark was g●…ne . I no where gave that as the only , or as ●…ny Reason , why the Meeting could not adjourn . But I ●…ged the Clark's being gone with the M●…ing Book , before the adjournment was made ▪ 〈◊〉 that not in an abrupt manner , or by way 〈◊〉 ●…reach or Disunion , which I argued from his not being reproved , or blamed for it afterwar●… by the M●…eting ) as an Argument that the Meeting was really ended before that Adjournment ●…as made , and that consequently that Adjornment ●…s irregul●…r , and without Authority . F●…ds , this is a main point : For upon that Adjournment depends much of the open Breach that followed . Therefore this had need be well heeded . In my former Epistle , I handled this Point pretty largely , because I knew there lay much weight upon it . G. K. in his Answer has well ●…igh waved it all , at least the most pressing parts of it : Which shews his Weakness . I shall therefore r●…n over agaiu here , some part of what I said on this Subject before , that it may appear how short his Answer is , and that his strength lies more in a sort of Sophistical Arguing , and quibbling on words , than in substantial and solid Reasoning . I urged in my former Epistle , p. 26. the Clark's going away with the Meeting Book , ( as well as some others of the Meeting ) as an Argument that the Me●…ting was regularly ended before the Adjournment was made . To this he gives no Answer . But fallaciously slips from this to another thing ; crying out , It is ridiculous to say that the Meeting could not adjourn because the Book and the Clark was gone , and that this is the chief , or rather only Reason given by me . I have shewed this to be false . But what 's this to the purpose ? The Question is not whether the Meeting could adjourn while it was a Meeting : But whether it was a Meeting , when the Adjournment was made ? Or whether it was not ended and broken up before . I observed that G. K. himself spake of it doubtfully and with reserve . He did not say the Meeting was not broke up before the Adjournment : but that it was not understood to be broke up before the Adjournment . He says nothing to clear this . Part of the Meeting he says was gone . What made them go , before the Meeting was ended ? The Reason he gave is , its being col●… Weather , and growing dark . But among thos●… that went away the Clark of the Meeting it seem●… was one , and he took the Meeting 's Book wit●… him . If some few would take the liberty to ris●… and go away before the Meeting was ended , be●…cause it was cold and grew dark , is it reasona●…ble to think that that would have induced th●… Clark of the Meeting to have gone away to●… and carried the Meeting 's Book away with hi●… in which the Proceedings of the Meeting shoul●… be recorded , before the Meeting was ended ▪ Or have excused him if he had ? Would a●… Meeting suffer that in a Clark , without 〈◊〉 Believe it that can . And let G. K. clear hi●… self fairly of this , if he can . Till then , I sha●… take it for certain , that that Monthly Meeti●… was ended and broken up , part of the Friends gone away , the Clark gone , the Book in which the Proceedings of the Meeting should be recorded gone , before the Adjournment was made , and consequently that Adjournment not good , but invalid . And if so , then neither those Friends that denied the Meeting , held next day at the School-house upon that Adjournment , to be a right Monthly Meeting ; nor the Quarterly Meeting , which afterwards refused to record in their book the Acts of that Meeting , held on that Adjournment , did thereby begin the Separation , or give the others any just cause to separate . Divers other Passages in the 26 , and 27. pages of my former Epistle , tending to prove , that not Friends , but G. K. and his Party begun the Seperation , he takes no notice of ; but carps at a word , to wind himself off by , that he might get clear of this matter . I had said before , Truly the time , manner and Circumstances of that Adjournment considered , it seems to me that this was an irregular Meeting , surreptitiously obtained , to serve a private end . This he makes his Eight Charge , thus . He falsly alledgeth that , the Meeting Adjourned , was surrepti●…ously obtained , which he grounds on a Forgery or Fiction of his own devising , as if Twenty Nine of them might be loose or raw Persons . Is it a Forgery or Fiction to say they might be loose or raw Persons ? I did not say they were ; and I gave the Reasons that induced me to think they might be such , which I had from himself . For when I had said , It seems to me , this was an irregular Meeting , surreptitiously ●…btained , to serve a private end ; I added , and the rather for that I observe , when he sets forth ( to grace it ) the Number of them that met upon that Adjournment , consisting of ( he says ) at least Sixty Persons , he adds ( which as much disgraces it ) Most of which us●… to keep Monthly Meetings . So that Twenty Nine of those Sixty might be raw or loose Persons , brought in to do a Job , or serve a Turn : And that they were so , I am the more induced to think , from his giving the Names of some of them , but not of them all . This makes it plain , that I did not ground my saying , on a Forgery or Fiction of my own d●…sing ; but upon the Account himsel●…●…ad given of the Persons , viz. That being in 〈◊〉 of Sixty , most of them used to keep Monthly Meetings , which might be true , though Twenty Nine of the Sixty were raw or loose Persons . But since that Adjourned Meeting was designed for such an extraordinary service , as to give forth three Judgments ( which it seems they did ) why should some be brought to help make up that Meeting , who did not use to keep Monthly Meetings before ; unless it were to serve a T●… ? And why should he undertake to give a List of the Names of some of them , and not of them all , but that he too well kn●…w there were too many raw or loose Persons among them ? But from my ●…ng the Words , Surreptitiously obtained , he takes occasion to slip aside again from the matter , and says , I may much more justly say , his scandalous Book is surreptitiously come out in print , being contrary to the mind of many Friends , and to Gospel Order , professed by himself , and all professed Friends , viz. That none expose another in print , or print against another , till he be disowned by the Meeting to whom he belongs , after a fair Tryal had . Whether my Book came out surreptitiously . I leave to you , Friends , to judge , from the Account I have herein given before , of the manner of its coming forth . And as to his complaint of want of Gospel Order , I desire you to consider , that before my Book was written , he had refused to hear the Church , not only in America , ( where he was openly and judicially denied ) but here also , in not following the advice and counsel thereof . And truly I think , the Church would be in but an ill condition , if one , under ●…tence and protection of Membership , might be imboldned to throw dirt upon her , and another of her Members might not have the liberty to endeavour at least to wipe it off . But since he urges that Order . That none expose another in print , or print against another , till he be disowned by the Meeting to whom he belongs , &c. let me ask him ; Why he has exposed me in print , or printed against me , who am not disowned by the Meeting to which I belong ? And what Gospel Order hath he given to either the Yearly Meeting , or the Second Day 's Morning Meeting , before he exposed them in Print ? He says , It has not been in the least intimated to him , that any Meeting in London , where he now lives , hath denied him . By this it seems as if he expected to be as oft denied as he removes his seat . What if a Meeting in London had denied him , and he should thereupon remove to Bristol , and from thence to York ? Would not his having been denied in London serve his Turn , unless he were in like manner denied again in each of the other Places also ? But what need was there that any Meeting in London should intimate to him their denyal of him , who hath cut off himself from friends , by open Separation , and denied both the Yearly and Second Day 's Morning Meeting in London ? Besides he hath set up his Standard , Proclaimed War , begun it in America , transferr'd it hither , and , is eagerly carrying it on here ; And he knows the saying , Inter arma silent leges . Can he reasonably expect the exactne●… of Proceeding by Gospel Order against him , when he hath m●…e open War against Friends without ●…spel Order ? He says , But I printed nothing ●…nst any in America , till Gospel Order was given t●…r , and was rejected by them . I do not believe this to be true : He has exposed in Print a great number of Friends by name in America : Yet I don't remember to have read in his Book , that any of them were complained of to the Meetings to which they belonged , but W. S. and T. F. Therefore I have reason to think they were not . Let him shew what Gospel Order all ●…hey severally had , whose names he has exposed in Print . His Ninth Charge is not only ●…meer Cavil , but I take it to be done with design , as well as the former , thereby to disjoynt the Account of the Separation , which I had connected , that he may confound his Reader . He grounds this Cavil upon an hi●…t I gave ( and that but in a Parenthesis ) that speaking of a Monthly Meeting in the First Month last , he set no Year either when that was , or when his Book was Printed , as there is scarce to any of his late Printed things , which re●…ders him and his works more obscure . This he says , I falsly alledge , and that the contrary is to be seen , in his Book , quoting p. 19. ( of his Reasons and Causes , &c. ) But the mention he made of the Monthly Meeting in the First Month last , was not in p. 19. but in p. 15. of that Book . So that I must have hunted from p. 15. to 19. if I would have sought it ; And yet I should not have found it there neither : For indeed it is not there , nor any where else in his Book , that I can find . He says , He shews in that Nin●…nth page , that the Monthly Meeting that gave ●…gment against W. S. and T. F. was the Twenty Seventh of the Twelfth Month. 1691. And in that he ●…ys true . He adds ; And it plainly appears from my Book , that the Monthly Meeting in the First Month last ( there mentioned ) was in the next Month following , in the Year 1692. And in that he says False ; no such thing appearing plainly , or at all . Now he refers from p. 19. to p. 27. where ; he says , that very Year is mentioned . And so indeed it is , but not as relating to the Meeting in the First Month last , but as the ●…are of a Letter , Written the 15th . of the Third Month , 1692. without any mention of the Meeting in the First Month last . That First Month last must be the First Month next before the Book , in which it is mentioned , was Printed . For the date of the Book therefore I searched , both in the Title page , and at the End : But it doth not appear by the Book it self , either in what Year , at what Place , or by whom it was Printed . I gave but a transient hint before , of his obscure way of Writing , not intending to insist on it . But since he takes that light Correction so impatiently , it 's fit , I think he should have more , since more is due to him . Therefore , I now add , That his Book called , The Plea of the 〈◊〉 , &c. His Book called , Truth and Innocency defended , &c. His Book called , A Testim●… against that false and absur'd Opinion , &c. His loving Epistle , ( as it came out at 〈◊〉 , distinct from his Seasonable Information , to which it is now stitched ) none of these have the Year when , the Place where , or the name of the Printer by whom they w●…re Printed , as other Mens Books usually have . By this it appears , that it was not without 〈◊〉 I gave him that gentle R●… before , ( which he had better have ●…orn , than have given O●… 〈◊〉 ●…ser R●… to follow , ) but that he had no ca●… to charge me with dealing f●…lsly by him in it . Why he should choose ( for , in so many Instances , it look●… more like Choice , than Chance , ) to conceal the dates of his Book●… , I cannot tell ; 〈◊〉 it were , that from the Incertainty that arises from such an obscure way of Writing , he might ha●…ly catch his Answerer upon some mist●… in point of time , ( as he did me about the Yearly Meeting ) and thence both take the adva●… to insult over him , and withal avoid his Argument . In his Tenth C●…ge , He Vaunts : himself over my Ignorance , saying , I most ●…ersly and Ignorantly alledge ( by a sort of Argument that is so silly and weak , that scarce an Ordinary School-Boy wo●…d use it , suppose him to mean One of his own instructing ) That if that Act of T. L's . ( viz. says G. K. his withdrawing from the Monthly Meeting adjourned where I begin it : But say I , his withdrawing from the Monthly Meeting before that adj●…rnment , where G. K. did formerly begin it ) was the Cause of the Sep●…ration , ●…en it would not be the Separation it self : But the Separation must come after this , ●…s this Effect follows ●…he ●…use . This ( that the Effect follows the Cause ) he 〈◊〉 ridiculously weak : And thereupon reminds me of the advice he gave me in the Yearly Meeting , to beware of falling into the 〈◊〉 of ●…hat called Philosophy . If that called Philosophy be a Ditch , I confess , I have no mind to fall into it . For if it be a Ditch , I doubt 't is a 〈◊〉 one , because he who has walked so long in si●… , drops so much Di●… from his Pen. And si●… , F●…●…st vel 〈◊〉 hoste doc●…ri ( it is L●…ful 〈◊〉 l●…rn even of an Enemy ) I am content to learn by another's harm to beware , and not venture ▪ too far into his Ditch , left he bring an Action of Intrusion against me , for , ent●…ing , against his mind , upon his Possession , the ! Ditch of that called Philosophy . Yet let him give me leave to put him in mind ( for I doubt not but he knows it already ) that Omnis Caus●… est prior suo effect●… ( every Cause is before it's Effect ) and Effectus non est . Causa ( the Effect is not the Cause ) are true Rules in that Philosophy , which is not a Ditch . But , Friends , ( whatever his Logicians or School-men , as he says , teach ; who are not always in the right , as he is often in the wrong ) when I argued , that if that Act of T. Lloyd's going out of the Monthly Meeting , and taking away a Wing or Skirt of the Meeting with him ( which G. K. said he did ) was the Cause of the Separation , then it could not be the Separation it self : But the Separation must come after this , as the Effect follows the Cause : I suppose I spake to your Understanding , and that ye will not be easily per●…ded by his Logicians , or Schoolmen , or himself either to put the Cart before the House , or the Effect before 〈◊〉 Cause . But however Ignorant I was , what Forgery , Perversion , or false Accusation was there in this ? His Eleventh Charge , is , That I falsly alledge , that the Change of the Meeting in Philadelphia , from the Bank to the Cent●… , was in Course . This , says , he , I prove to be false and a Fiction , because , at the time of the Course of ▪ 〈◊〉 was not yet 〈◊〉 , nor did come either so soon before or after , so T●…l . put it to a vote , by giving a sign , whether it should he ●…ved or not , &c. This Proof of his consists in two things . First ; That the ti●…●…f the Course of it ( that is of its being removed in Course ) was not yet come . This Objection I remember he made in the Yearly Meeting at London , and it was there Answered , and I took notice of both the Objection and Answer in my former Epistle , p. 31. thus , I remember indeed ( which I would here note ) G. K. did object , That the Meeting was removed that Year somewhat earlier , than it had been some other Year's . But to that it was replied , by the Friends of Pensilvania then present , that there was no certain day prefix'd and settled for the removing thereof ; but it was either earlier or later in the Year , according as the Seasons of the Year proved fair or foul for weather . This plain and full Answer to his Objection G. K. takes no notice of ; but urges afresh , that the time of the Course of changing the Meeting was not yet come , as a Proof that my saying it was changed in Course is False and a Fiction . But this stands still in his way , and he must remove this , before he can get forward . He must prove that there was a prefixt day for the removing of the Meeting , and that Friends removed it before that fixt day was come , e're his Proof will stand him in any stead . However , Friends , I hope ye will take notice , that by his saying , The time of the Course of it was not yet come , nor did come either so soon before or after , he grants the Meeting had a Course of Removing , and that both before and after . See now how unfair he was , to charge Friends there with assuming a Power to change the Meetings , when the Meetings were , by his own acknowledgment , to be changed in Course . And judge whether the Friends removing the Meeting from one House to the other , as it used in Course to be , either was an Act of Separation in them , or could be a just ground to G. K. and his Party , to separate from them . The other part of his Proof , that my saying the Meeting was changed in Course is False , and a Fiction , is , that T. L. put it to the vote , by giving a sign , whether it should be removed or not . But this is so far from being a Proof , that it self wants a Proof , and may be false and a Fiction , for ought appears : For he gives it but upon the credit of his own word . In my 32 , and 33 , pages , I shewed , that not the Friends , in removing the Meeting of Course ; but he and his , in keeping a Meeting at the Bank out of Course , when the Meeting was in Course removed , made and begun the Separation . It had concerned him to have Answered this , and cleared himself of it ( and so no doubt he would if he could ) but he takes no ●…ice of it ▪ but slips away to where I mentioned , Thomas Wilson's Evidence , and charges me with perverting T. W's . words . This is his Twelfth Charge . Now T. W's . Evidence was , that , having asked G. K. What end he thought the Friends had in removing that Meeting , G. K. said , he believed they did to force h●… to Meet with them . This says G. K. proveth th●… they that used that force towards me , were guilty of the Separation . But how proves he that any did use sorce , or intended to use force towards him ? The Friends did not say so ; T. Wilson did not say so : 'T was only he himself said he believed they did it to force him to Meet with them . But his believing so ( if he did really believe so ) does not prove it was so . But if he did believe so , he was ( as I observed in my former ) the more to be blamed , in urging the removing of that Meeting as an Instance , or Proof , that the Friends began the Separation : For to separate themselves from him , and to force him to Meet with them , are contrary enough . But where 's his Proof that I have perverted Tho. Wilson's Words , which he himself takes as I laid them down , without contradicting them ; yea and argues from them , though perversly and falsely ? His Thirteenth Charge he calls , My Perversion , in Charging him for having a Private Family Meeting at his House , &c. Upon this he runs out , as far as to the Act of Parliament that allows five besides the Family to meet . And infers , that by my Sentiment , Men must not instruct their Families , nor pray in their Families , without authority and appointment of the Mens Meeting , or if they do , they must let none other be present . All this is but empty noise raised artificially to amuse his Reader . He gave the occasion for my taking notice of his Family Meeting , by ●…ing proposed the quite laying aside the After●…s Meeting , that Friends had allways held , and setting up private Family Meetings in the room of it . And because that Proposition did not take , ( the Friends would not loose their Meeting so ) he thereupon , when the Meeting was removed from the Bank to the Centre , set up an Evening Meeting in his Family , which being done in a Spirit of contention , opposition and division , was the same in nature and ground with his other open separate Meetings . This he seemed to be sensible of himself , and therefore to obviate the Objection that he saw might be made , he said in his Reasons of the Separation , p. 15. That could be counted no Separate Meeting for that day . This led me to say , As he gives no Account by whose appointment , or what Authority that Meeting was held : So he offers no reason why it could not be accounted a Separate Meeting ; nor do I think , indeed , that he can give any . For though M●…n may instruct their Families , and pray in their Families ( being rightly moved thereunto ) yet a private Meeting in a Family , set up in Opposition to publick Meetings , and in Disunion to Friends , is as really a Separate Meeting , as the openly Separate Meetings are . He says , My Clamour about their Meeting at the Barbadoes - House , is idle and impertinent . So he is willing to turn off any thing that he cannot answer . But it 's so pertinent , that it fastens the Separation upon him and his Party so close , that he cannot shake it off . He says , We met not there till they had separated themselves from us , and denied the Monthly Meeting . This is but a b●…gging of the Question , in both parts of it ; which 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 were not hard beset , such a Man a●… he would not have done . That the Friends , in removing the Meeting from the Bank to the Centre , did separate themselves from him and his Party , is denied . That the Meeting which the Friends denied , and whose Acts the Quarterly Meeting refused to Record , was a rightly constituted Monthly Meeting , is denied . These are main Points , which he ought to have proved : But not being able to do that , he begs them ; too meanly for him . But what can a Man do , though his Abilities be great , when his Cause is not good ? He adds , Besides that , they not only threatned to keep 〈◊〉 out at the Bank Meeting , but most rudely abused us when we met in it , always , interrupting any of us that spoke , though we never interrupted them , I perceive by this he cannot say they were kept out at the Bank Meeting : The highest he goes , is , that they were threatned to be kept out ; and for the Truth of that , we have but his word . But it is a known Truth ( which I suppose himself is not ignorant of ) that Friends in England have been actually kept out of their Meeting-houses by those Separatists , whom he is now fallen in with . As for what he says of being rudely abused , they must be rudely abusive indeed , that could exceed him that way . He adds , And at last sending some , by their Magistratical Authority , with Saws and Axes to knock down our Gallery , 〈◊〉 they were prevented by some that knocked down both the one and the other , which ( says he ) I had to hand in , directly nor indirectly , ( could he not have said , but only looked on , and laughed for Ioy ? ) Here he mentions Our Gallery ; so that it seems , while he met in the same Room with Friends , he had a sort of separate Meeting even there , and a separate Gallery for himself and some of his Party , in opposition to the Gallery the Ministring Friends used to sit in . He should have done well to have told how that Gallery of his came to be set up , and when . This brings to mind something I have read at the Yearly Meeting , concerning this Gallery-work ; and to the best of my remembrance it was to this Purpose , That after G. K. had broken out into open Opposition in Friends Meetings , and a little before he went quite off from them , being uneasie in sitting in the same Gallery with Friends , his Followers set up a new Gallery for him , on the other side the Room , over against the old Gallery ; and this was done privately and suddenly . But when it was known , and known to be done without the Consent of the Meeting , or of those particular Friends who were the Trustees for the Meeting-house , two of the Trustees went in a peaceable manner , to take it down again : W●… that they might proceed therein by Joint-co●…sent , called Robert Turner , ( who also was one 〈◊〉 the Trustees ) to go with them . But when 〈◊〉 came into the Meeting-house , R. Turner , i●… of taking down the New Gallery , striking 〈◊〉 a transient stroke upon , that , went to the 〈◊〉 Gallery of Friends , and fell with that fury up●… that , that having gotten suitable assistance , the cut and tore down the Posts , Rails , Seat , 〈◊〉 and Bottom of i●… , laying it level with the 〈◊〉 of the Meeting-house G. K. looking 〈◊〉 , 〈◊〉 showing h●… great satisfaction and Joy , b●… 〈◊〉 ing at it . This is that R. Turner , who was 〈◊〉 man in Signing the Iudgment given at the ●…rate . Meeting in . 〈◊〉 on behalf of 〈◊〉 But that the Trustees , who went to take 〈◊〉 that Now Gallery , were sent ( as G. K. 〈◊〉 ) by Magistratical Authority , doth ●…ot appear . That which he calls my Fourteenth Perversion , is , That 〈◊〉 assumed , a Power to alter , c●… , change , and set up Meetings 〈◊〉 be pleas'd . This he calls both a Perversion and ●…orgery ( for he is very liberal of those . Terms ) and he says , The Foundation of it is , by my own Confession , 〈◊〉 he declared his sense , by way of Proposition . That it were good to have but one publick Meeting on First Days , and the remaining part to be used in private Families . ( He should have said for private Meetings in Families : For so he said before ; and that was it he would have been at . ) Now , Reader , ( says he ) iudge what Ground he had from 〈◊〉 simple Christian Proposition , to invent this Forg●…y . Nay , stay Reader , and before thou judgest , let me shew thee , if thou hast not already read it , what Grounds I had , and gave in my former Epistle , for charging him that he and his 〈◊〉 would have assumed a Power to alter , 〈◊〉 , change , a●…pomt , pull down , set up Meetings as they pleased . First , I shew'd , p. 35 : T●… would have pulled down the publick Afternoons ●…ing , and ●…d it quite aside ; next , That they 〈◊〉 have set up private Meetings in Families , ins●… thereof . Thirdly , Their setting up a new Aft●… Meeting of their own heads . And whereas 〈◊〉 his declaring his sense , that it were good to 〈◊〉 out one publick Meeting on First Days , &c. was by ●…ay of Proposition ; and , to pa●…iate the matter , 〈◊〉 his simple Christian Proposition . I say it went 〈◊〉 a Proposition . He declared not only his Sense , but his Int●…n . Some of us ( says he , 〈◊〉 . 〈◊〉 . 〈◊〉 his Reason of the Separation ) did declare ou●… sincere In●…ion and Sense ; as much as to ●…ay . It is our Sense , that it were good to have but one publick Meeting on First Days , and me ●…ntend to have but one . It is our Sense that the remaining part of the Day should be used for private Meetings in Familles ; and we intend to do so . This is confirmed by their Practice , which was pursuant to this their Intention . For as it was their declared Intention and Sense , ( for I think their Intention went before their Sense ) that it were good to have but one publick Meeting on First Days : So , when they found that Friends would not let fall their Afternoons Meeting , he and his Party stuck to their own Intention , and withdrew from it , keeping but one publick Meeting on that Day . As they had declared their Intention and Sense , that the remaining part of the Day should be used for private Meetings in Families : So when Friends would not change their publick for his private Family-meetings , he and his Party stuck to their own Intention , and held a private Family-meeting in his House . ( Some of us met , says he , as a private Family-meeting in the Evening , at the House of G. K. p. 15. ) And after all this , when he saw that private Family-meetings would not do ; he with his Party , assumed a Power to set up , and did set up , a new publick Afternoons Meeting . ( Their ●…eeping up , says he , their publick Afternoons Meeting , hath given us just occasion at present to have a publick Afternoons Meeting , as well as they , p. 16. ) Now Reader , judge and 〈◊〉 not , whether I had not good Ground to say he and his Party would have assumed a Power , to alter , chop , change , appo , pull down , set up Meetings , as they pleased ; and whether , he had any just Cause from thence , to charge me with Perversion and Forgery . His Fifteenth Instance of my perverting his Words , that because he said , It was good to have but one publick Meeting on First Days , I ( he says ) thereby inferr'd that it was not good , according to his Sense , but evil , to have two publick Meetings on First Days , and that therefore to keep two was against his Conscience . I did not say against his Conscience , but against his declared Intention and Sense . What that was I know : But what his Conscience is I don't know . But be it what it will , I think I made appear that in his setting up his Afternoons Meeting , in opposition to the Ancient Meeting of Friends , and contrary to his before-declared Intention and Sense , he went not upon a sincere , godly , conscientious Ground , respecting the Honour of God , the Propagation of Truth , the Edification and Benefit of the Church : But a Political , Popular , worldly Ground , respecting his own Reputation and Honour , that he , and they with him , might not be thought less Zealous , than the Friends they had separated from , &c. which was fairly deduced from the reason he gave for his setting up that Meeting , viz. Their keeping up their publick Afternoons Meeting , hath given us just occasion at present to have a publick Afternoons Meeting as well as they , for we hope they shall not have cause to say against us , that we are short of them in our Zeal for good Meetings This , in the 37th . page of my Epistle , I quoted out of his Reasons of the Separation , p. 16. and argued largely on it ; which he has not answered : As indeed he seldom does any thing that is Argumentative ; but catches at words , and quibbles on them . Thus what I offered in p. 38. to shew , from his saying , That the Separation was well warranted both by Scripture-Testimony and Command of Christ , &c. That he took the Separation upon himself , because it would be ( as I there argued ) an apparent Self-condemnation in him to say , the Friends had separated from him , and that their so separating was well-warranted by Scripture and Command of Christ. This , I say , he skips lightly over ; and catches at another Quotation I gave out of him , wherein he charges me with Perversion and Forgery , but without cause . This he assigns for my Sixteenth Perversion , saying , That in labouring to cast the Separation on him , by writing some of his words , I leave out a material Clause in the Sentence that cleareth him ; the whole Sentence being this , Now the Scriptures that warrant us in this Separation , ( altho' , as is said , first made by them ) are these following , &c. The words [ altho' , as is said , first made by them ] which ( he says ) clear him fully , that he did not take the Separation on him , he says , I fraudulently leave out . But in this he deals fraudulently with me , and with his Reader . For the Inference I made from those words of his , viz. [ the Scriptures that warrant us in this Separation ] was not so much designed to prove he began the Separation , as that he is in it . I had proved just before , from his saying , [ This Separation was well-warranted , &c. ] that he began it , or took it upon himself . And by his after words , I shew'd that he was in it . The Scriptures that warrant us ( says he ) in this Separation . There I stopt with an &c. to shew that was not all the Sentence . Then making my Inference thus , This is a sufficient Warrant sure to lay the Separation at his Door ; for here is a plain acknowledgment that he is in it , I added ( to have prevented this Cavil ) tho' he Idly pretends that others began it . And this , I think will shew that he idly charges this as a Perversion and Forgery on me . In his Seventeenth , he quibbles on the words Separate and Separation , only to amuze and puzzle his Reader . I had quoted another passage of his , to shew he had taken ( though perhaps , unwittingly ) the Separation upon him . It was this ; We are convinced and perswaded in our Consciences , that God calleth us to separate from such unbelievers , ( so he branded Friends there . ) Hereupon I said , This sure is a full proof , not only that they are in the Separation , but that they began it : For if the Friends ( whom he calls unbelievers ) had first separated from them , then how could he say God called them to separate from the unbelievers , when the unbelievers ( in his sense ) had separated from them before . And carrying on my Argument , I said , A Separation from a Thing or Person , implies a being joyned to that Thing or Person before , and till such separation be made . G. K : Passing by my Arguments , catches hold on the word Separate ; and plays upon it , and putting some cavilling Questions about it ( not very difficult , but very impertinent , to be answered ) cries out I have shewed my great Ignorance ( which is a sort of art he uses , to huff his Opponent , and damp him , if he can ) and at last , his great Knowledge brings the matter to this Issue , that the Word Separate hath several significations . What then ? Hath it not the signification I used it in , ( viz. an Implication that the things or Persons separated were first joyned ) Will he deny that the Word Separation implies a being joyned before ? Nay : He grants it in the present Case ; saying , It being granted that we were formerly joyned , with them , this doth not prove , &c. So that what has all his quibbling upon the word Separate , come to , but to shew a Disposition to Cavilling , and thereby to evade an Argument . He says , It being granted that we were formerly joined with them , this doth not prove that we begun the Separation . No sure ! for this is sufficiently proved by other mediums . But what Trifling is it in him so to argue ? But after it was made by them , says he , we were warranted and justified by the Scripture , &c. to remain separate from them . This is pitiful shuffling , by which he would wind himself off , from having taken the Sepation upon himself , when he said , This Separation is well warranted , &c. The Scriptures that warrant us in it , &c. We are convinced and perswaded in our Consciences , that God calleth us to separate , &c. But it will not help him . For to separate ( in that sense especially , which is proper to this Subject ) is to withdraw from . So a Separatist , in the common acceptation of the word , is one that hath withdrawn himself from the Society , Communion , or Fellowship of Others , whom he was joyned with before . But G. K. has found out a new way of Separation , and a new notion of the Word , whereby he would make them the Separatists that are withdrawn from , not them that withdrew . Had I argued thus , he would have paid me off , with his fine Terms of gross Ignorance , ridiculous Folly , and the like , which he liberally bestows . But it is evident he is forwarder to Cavil and Rail , than to Answer an Argument : For after all his noise about the Word [ Separate , ] he leaves my Arguments unanswered , p. 39. and 40. whereby I proved from his own Words , that he began the Separation . And seeing he would over-look them before , I le set them before him again . From his having said ( in his Reasons of the Separation , p. 22. ) We are convinced and perswaded in our Consciences , that God calleth us to separate from such Unbeilevers . I argue thus . If the Friends ( whom he calls Unbelievers ) had first Separated from them , then how could he say God had called them to Separate from the Unbelievers , when the Unbelievers ( in his Sense ) had Separated from them before . A Separation ( said I , and I say it again ) from a thing or Person , implies a being joyned to that thing or Person before , and till such Separation be made . But if the Friends there , had begun the Separation before , then they had thereby disjoyned themselves from G. K. and his Party ; and G. K. and his Party could not have afterwards Separated from them ; because they were not , then joyned to them ; consequently it could not be , that God should call them to Separate from the others , if the others had Separated themselves from them before . If therefore they are convinced and perswaded in their Consciences ( as G. K. says they are ) that God called them to Separate from these whom he calls unbeleivers , and that they answered that Call , they must then acknowledge that they began the Separation . And that they did so , his following words shew , p. 23. Where he says , We have great clearnes●… and peace in the Lord , to retire and Separate from such disorderly Walkers and talkers , as we have formerly done from other Professions . Here ( said I ) is appears the Friends kept their standing , stood their Ground ; and G. K. and his Party retired , drew back , or withdrew , and Separated themselves ; and that purposely with design to to Separate : For he adds ( alittle after ) Yet we design not any Separation from our faithful Brethren here , or elsewhere . A Separation then , it seems , they did design , though not from such as they account their faithful Brethren , 〈◊〉 . Thus in my former . And can he be s●… shall●… , to think he answers all this by saying . After the Separation was made by them , we were warrated and justified by the Scripture without , and the Spirit of Truth within , to romain Separate from them ? Doth this answer his own terms , wherein he exprest himself before , when he said , We are convinced and perswaded in our Consciences , that God calleth us to separate ( an Active Voice ) from such unbelivers ; when he said , We have great clearness and peace in the Lord ( what to do ? to rema●… ? No. ) to retire and Separate from such , &c. And how ? As we have formerly done from other Professions . How was that ? ) Did other Professions first Separate from them , and they remain in their old Meeting Places , which those other Professions had left , forsaken , retired , withdrawn from ? Or did they Separate from other Professions , and leave , forsake , retire , withdraw from their Society , Fellowship and Meeting Places . Mark this well , Friends ; If G. K. and his Party did really Separate from other Professions , then he and they did really Separate from Friends in America , whom he calls unbelievers , and disorderly Walkers and Talkers : For he says , We have great clearness and peace in the Lord , to retire and Separate from such disorderly Walkers and Talkers , as we have for●…cly done from other Prafessions . This is not Triffling , but Solid Reasoning . Therefore let him not shuffle and dodge , after such an Unmanly manner ; but dispute fairly , and acquit himself , if he can . His Eighteenth Charge against me is , that I deny it hath been proved that his Oppos●…rs in Pensilvania , are guilty of vile Errors ; and that I alledge , He pict the words he Charges them with , from their own discourses , &c. This he calls a Forgery , for want of an harder Term. But he perverts my Words , which were these ; In the tracing this matter ( the Separation ) through G. 〈◊〉 ' s. Book , I observe he makes a great Noise and Out-cry of gross and vile Errors held by some , and them upheld by others , which he gives for one Reason or Cause of the Separation . But in as much as this is only his Charge without due proof , and the Persons , by him Charged with those vile Errors , are not here present , to make Answer to his Charge , and defend themselves , or to shew the Occasions that led to , and Circumstances that attended those Discourses , from which he pick'd the words he charges them with , and to explain their meanings therein , I have not thought it fit , or becoming me , on no better ground , to meddle with those matters , being alike unwilling to justifie them , if in any thing they have done or said amiss , as to condemn them unheard , upon the report of another , and him their professed Adversary . Here I joyned together his twofold Outcry , that gross and vile Errors were held by some , and that they that held them were upheld by others , ( which was the third and main Reason he assigned for the Separation ; and I said that this was without due Proof . This he says , is a Forgery , and that it is apparent from the Testimonies of those whom I pretend greatly to credit . The First he offers is , That Iudgment ( which he says was ) given out from the Meeting of Ministring Friends , as 't is called , the fourth of the fourth Month : ( in some Year : or other , I suppose ; but he tells us not here in what : ) That Judgment ( he says ) doth declare , that Proof was made by two Witnesses , that W. S. should say , That George Keith ' s. Preaching Christ without , and Christ within , was Preaching two Christs . To this I say , This is no due Proof , that W. S. was guilty of holding that vile Error G. K. charges him with , That to Preach Faith in Christ without , and Faith in Christ within , is to Preach two Christs . For the Terms are different . And although to Preach Faith in Christ without , and Faith in Christ within , is not to Preach two Christs : Yet G. K. might so Preach Christ without , and Christ within , that it might seem like a Preaching of two Christs , for ought appears to the Contrary . And indeed , although G. K. brought two Witnesses to attest that W. S. did say ( as G. K. here reports it ) that G. K's . Preaching Christ without , and Christ within , was Preaching two Christs ; yet the credit of their Testimony is justly questionable , both as they were chief Men in G. K's . Party , and as G. K. himself doth vary in his Charge against W. S. from their Testimony . For their Evidence ( as he reports it from the Judgment of the Meeting ) was expresly , That W. S. should say , That G. K ' s. Preaching Christ without , and Christ within , was Preaching two Christs . But G. K. himself charges him with saying , Christ within and Christ without are two Christs , p. 3. And afterwards , in the same page , he alters the Charge again , alledging he said , To Preach Faith in Christ within , and Faith in Christ without , was to Preach two Christs , Plea of Innocent , Page 3. so again he reports it in Page 22. And in Page 23. he asks , Why do not the words of their Iudgment run thus , That W. S. did say , To Preach Faith in Christ without , and in Christ within , was to Preach two Christs ? So that he would have had the words of their Judgment , to have run otherwise than the Words of his Witnesses Evidence did run ; by which they that run may read how little regard he himself had to his own Witnesses Evidence . And although that Meeting , proceeding upon that Evidence ( such as it was ) did blame W. S. for uttering those words , which those Witnesses did witness against him : Yet it is plain that W. S. was not guilty of holding that Error G. K. charges him with , That to Preach Christ without , and Christ within , was to Preach two Christs , seeing he always denied that he spake those words ; whereas if he had been guilty of such an Error in his Judgment , it may reasonably be supposed he would have owned the words charged upon him , and have laboured to maintain and defend his Error , that being the Common way of the Erroneous . But , if W. S. had been really guilty of holding such an Error , yet certainly that Man must be made up of Errors that can believe , the Judgment of that Meeting which condemned him for speaking ( as the Witnesses attested ) those words which are charged upon him as his Error , to be a due proof that that Meeting upheld him in that Error . And therefore hitherto it is no Forgery , nor fault , in me to say , G. K's . great Outcry of gross and vile Errors , held by some , and then upheld by others , has not been duly proved . His Second Instance , that he hath proved his Charge ( viz. That some are guilty of holding gross and vile Errors , &c. And others of upholding them therein ) is , That he stands Recorded ( as he says , ) on the Monthly Meeting Book at Philadelphia , by the Monthly Meetings Iudgment given out against him , and clearing T. Fitzwater , the Twenty sixth of the third Month , ( in what Year ? ) For accusing him that he denied the sufficiency of the Light ; and the Evidence against him was , that he said he did not believe the Light was sufficient without something else ; whereby ( says he ) it is evident , they exclude Christ's manhood , Death and Sufferings , Blood and Intercession for them in Heaven ; from having any part in our Salvation . This is far from being a Proof , either that that T. F. did exclude Christ's Manhood , Death and Sufferings , Blood and Intercession for us in Heaven , from having any part in our Salvation , or that the Meeting there upheld him in it . For it is but G. K's . own Inference , and that unfairly drawn . T. F. it seems , charged G. K. with denying the sufficiency of the Light. G. K. put him to prove it . He proved by four Credible Witnesses , that G. K. said , He did not believe the Light was sufficient , without something else . What G. K. meant by that something else , I do not find was then explained or discoursed . Afterwards , it seems , G. K. alledged , that by that something else , he meant Christ's Manhood , Sufferings , Death , Blood , Resurection , Ascension , Intercession , &c. Did the Meeting condemn G. K. for this ? I find no such thing . But because they did not at his Instigation , condemn T. F. for accusing G. K. falsly , in saying he denied the sufficiency of the Light ( which he proved against him by four Witnesses , ) therefore he flies out against both T. F. and the Meeting , charging them with excluding the Man Christ Jesus , his Sufferings , Death , &c. from having any part in our Salvation ; which was no Doctrine nor Tenet of theirs , but a false Inference of his own , and is as forcible against himself , as it can be against them . For in his Reasons of the Separation , p. 8. he says , divers were present at the place and time where and when W — alledged he heard G. K. deny the sufficiency of the Light , &c. that cleared him , that they heard him both then and at all occasions , that he delivered his mind on that subject , always bear Testimony to the Sufficiency of the Light to Salvation . Here ye see , he makes his own Witnesses speak as fully and expresly of his Testimony to the sufficiency of the Light to Salvation , as T. F. or any other could do , and that without any express reserve for something else . So that if T. F's . charging him with denying the sufficiency of the Light , simply and without Explication , doth exclude the Man Christ Jesus , his Sufferings , Death , &c. from having any part in our Salvation : G. K's . asserting the sufficiency of the Light to Salvation , simply and without explication , ( as in the place before quoted he does ) doth the same . And therefore G. K. is the more to be blamed , for casting so foul a slander upon others , which from his own words might with 〈◊〉 Reason be cast upon himself . But , Friends , ye know we never did nor do , oppose the Inward Appearance of Christ in Man , to that Outward Appearance of him in that prepared Body , wherein he obtained Redemption for Man ; nor by asserting the sufficiency of the Light , do we exclude , or intend to exclude the Man Christ Jesus , his Sufferings , Death , Blood-shedding , Resurrection , Ascension , Intercession , nor any thing that he wrought on Earth for us , or now , by his Mediation with his Father , worketh for us in Heaven , from having a part our Salvation ; And G. K. hath not yet proved that any in our society hath so done . His third Instance he gives to prove that he has proved his Charge ( viz. That some are guilty of holding gross and vile Errors , &c. and others of upholding them therein ) is , The Paper , called , A true Account of the Proceedings , &c. at the Yearly Meeting at Lond. the second Month , 1694. which , he says , doth plainly declare , that some were guilty of Erroneous Doctrines , or unsound Expressions , their words being these following ; And although it appears that some few Persons have given Offence , either through Erroneous Doctrines , unsound Expressions , or Weakness , Forwardness , want of Wisdom , and right Understanding , &c. This doth not declare what he says it doth plainly declare , Namely , that some were guilty of Erroneous or Unsound Expressions : For it appears some few Persons have given offence , either through Erroneous Doctrine , unsound Expressions , or Weakness , Forwardness , want of Wisdom , and right Understanding . So that , what Offence was given , might as well be through Weakness , forwardness , want of Wisdom , and right Understanding , as through Erroneous Doctrines or unfound Expressions . Nay , if it were through unsound Expressions ( though they are not to be excused , yet ) that doth not prove a Man guilty of holding gross and vile Errors , &c. For a Man that is sound in Iudgment , and Doctrine , may chance to drop an unsound Expression , through weakness , as some perhaps in America , through G. K's . catching Questions , may have been drawn to do , whose weakness for him to expose in Print , in that aggravating manner as he has done , to the reproach of the whole Profession , is very great Wickedness in him , and for which his Condemnation from God slumbers not . His last Instance is , that He produced above six Manuscripts , ( What means he by above six ? Does he mean six and a half ? For if they had been Seven or Eight , he might as well have said so , as above six ; ) signed with the Persons own hands , that were read at the Yearly Meeting , that proved them sufficiently guilty of vile Errors , &c. He being a Party is not a competent Iudge , what is sufficient Proof in this Case . That some Manuscripts were read in the Yearly Meeting by him , or on his Part , I remember ; how many they were , or whether signed by the Persons own hands , I know not . But , supposing ( not granting ) those Manuscripts to be either Autographs , or Authentick Copies , I believe he himself would think much , to be concluded and condemned from Inferences , or Constructions made upon Manuscripts ( especially if they be private Letters , as I think some of those he had read , were ) without his being present , and having the liberty to open and explain his sense and meaning in any Passage , Word , or sentence in them . Having gone through his Proofs , ( which , I think , I have shewed amount to no Proof ) he threatens , if I or any others persist to charge him , that he has wrongfully charged them in Pensilvania , these Manuscripts then read , with some others , may be made publick for his further clearing . For my part , I am of Opinion , that his publishing those Manuscripts , he threatens us with , will be so far from clearing him , that it will make his guilt appear the more clearly ; and I am perswaded that is the chief ( if not only ) Reason , why he has not published them all this while . His Nineteenth taxes me with Fallacy and Deceit , in covering W. Southbe , by concealing those Words in his Letter , where he confesseth , that he called it doubtful Questions , whether the Patriarchs have received the Resurrection ? This is a very Idle Cavil ; yet serves to shew what sort of Questions he used to put , to draw some simple plain Friends to drop such Expressions as he might pick some advantage out of against them : And this may be one , of many Instances that might be given , of his picking words from their Discourses , to Charge them with ; which , in his last Head , he Charged me with Forgery , for but mentioning . But if W. Southbe , did account that a doubtful Question , is that any more than he himself does ? What means he , when ( enumerating many Doctrines , which he says we hold in common with other Professions , Causeless Ground , p. 4. ) he says , The deceased Saints have not yet ( generally ) received the Resurrection of the Body , &c. Why generally , if he did not either think some had , or doubt whether they had or no ? Must W. Southbe be Unchristianed , rendred guilty of holding gross and vile Errors , Damnable Heresies and Doctrines of Devils ; for only calling it a doubtful Question , whether the Patriarchs have received the Resurrection ; and that by him , who seems himself to doubt it , either of them , or some other deceased Saints ? For his saying , the deceased Saints have not yet ( generally ) received the Resurrection , implies , he thinks some have . But that W. Southbe does believe a general Day of Judgment , and the Resurrection of the Dead at that Day , I shewed before from his own Letter , where having set forth G. K's Charge against him , that he denied any general Day of Judgment , and the Resurrection of the Dead ; but only what every one Witnesseth within here , he Solemnly denies the Charge , calls that Doctrine Damnable and Athiestical , declares that he believes the Resurrection according to the Scriptures , and the Antient Doctrine of Friends concerning it ; which was enough , one would think , to satisfy a wise Man ( one especially that pretended to be of the same Communion : ) and Paul himself could not satisfy the Fool about the Resurrection . G. K. says , T. E.'s Fallacy is the more manifest , that in W. Southbe's Confession of Faith , recited by him , there is not one word concerning the resurrection of the Dead , nor of Christ's coming without us , to Iudge the Quick and the Dead , &c. As to the Resurrection he had spoken largely of it , in the same Letter , before , which I suppose to be the reason , why he did not repeat it expresly by that Name after : Yet in that Declaration of his Faith , having mentioned Christ's Ascension into Heaven , and his Sitting at the Right hand of the Majesty on High , he adds , And that every one must appear before his Iudgment-Seat , to receive their Reward , according to their Deeds done in this Mortal Body , even at that great and dreadful Day of a general Account , &c. G. K. quarrels further with W. Southbe for saying he doth not own the day of Judgment now , in or after the same manner , as he did when he was a Papist ; for then he owned it very Carnally and outward , viz. That the great Iudgment should be in an outward valley called the valley of Iehosaphat , in the Land of Israel , and and that we should see with these outward Eyes ; But ( says he ) I believe now it will be more Spiritual . This doth not please G. K. who catching hold of his words , that when a Papist , he owned it very carnally and outward , he would slily suggest from thence , as if his Belief of it was worse now , than when he was a Papist . Perhaps indeed , his Belief of it when a Papist might best fit G. K's . notion of it , who ( I have heard ) did jump in with the Papists , in pitching upon the Valley of Jehosaphat for the Place , till a Traveller telling him that Place was too Streight , he took wing from the Valley into the Air. But I see no cause G. K. hath to condemn W. Southbe , for beliveing it will be more Spiritual than the Papist hold ; nor to infer from thence , that it will not be outward , since doubtless it may be more Spiritual than the Papists hold , and yet be outward also . But I had best have a care how I meddle too far in this matter , lest G. K. put me into Inquisition also , and bring me upon Examination again , which if he should , I am like enough to answer him , that I believe in this , as in other Divine things , according to the holy Scriptures ; and that I doubt would anger him afresh . For he makes it the Ground of his Twentieth Perversion , that I clear T. L. A. C. S. I. and I. D. by Printing part of a Paper , Subscribed by them , on behalf of themselves , and many others , and directed to him and others , wherein they say , As to Unity in Doctrine , so much seemingly profest by you , to the amusing of many unwary People , we hereby sincerely Declare , that we are herein one with our Antient and Faithful Brethren , firmly believing what is upon Record in the Holy Scriptures , concerning God , concerning our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ , both with Respect to his appearance in the Flesh , and to his appearance in the Spirit , concerning the Holy Ghost , the Resurrection-State , and Eternal Judgment , which , though offered unto you , to the same purpose , and that several times ; yet was rejected , as insufficient by you . And so , it seems , it is now too . For he objects against it , First , that it is two short , as being but about Eleven Lines : So that it seems , a multitude of words would have pleased him better . But I thought , in things of this Nature Especially , he would have regarded weight , rather than Number of words . And as few Lines as this is contained in , I know not whether that called The Apostles Creed be much longer . He thinks much to be put off with Eleven Lines of a Confession of Faith : And I do not think Eleven Volumes would satisfy him , unless they were of his own writing . But he that shall heedfully read these Eleven Lines , shall find they comprehend the Principal Doctrines , about which he pretended to be dissatisfied . But it is not the Brevity only that troubles him . He is offended that they say , they Firmly believe what is upon Record in the Holy Scriptures . At this he huffs , saying , so will every Papist say , every Socinian say , and every Mugletonian ; for it is a common Fallacy , that the Vilest of Hereticks use , whereby to deceive People , to tell them they Firmly believe all that is Recorded in the Holy Scriptures concerning God , Christ , &c. I know not whether Tertullus , who accused Paul to Felix ( Acts 24. ) were a greater Orator than G. K. but I am perswaded he was not so great a Sophister , nor so void of common Charity . Neither would the Apostle have gon off as he did , had G. K. been then , and in Tertullus his place , when Paul said He believed all things that were written in the Law and the Prophets , ver . 14. G. K. asks , why have the People called Quakers , Separated from the several Professions of Christianity , upon the account of Errors in Doctrine , which they did charge them with , seeing all these Professions in general terms say as much as we , that they Firmly believe what is upon Record in the Holy Scriptures ? I answer , First , That the People called Quakers did Separate from other Professions , not only because of the Errors in Doctrine which they charged them with , but also because those Professions in general , were departed from the Power and Life of Godliness , and withstood and denied the Inward Appearance of Christ in his People . And Secondly , As far as they did separate on the Account of Doctrines , it was because they found those Doctrines , even as those Professions themselves had stated them , to be not according , but contrary to what was upon record in the Holy Scriptures . He says , VVe have often told T. L. &c. Let them condemn those gross and vile Errors , which we have proved some of them guilty of , and others cloak and excuse them , &c. and that shall satisfie us in this point . But have not T. L. and Friends , often , if not as often , told him , that he has not proved them guilty of those gross and vile Eerrors he talks of , nor others of cloaking and excusing them ? And yet he will not be satisfied ; of which more in his next Perversion . He says , Many hold , to my certain knowledge , That the Resurrection is the New Birth , and nothing else : Others say , Immediately after Death we get the Resurrection fully . If by many that hold thus , he means many of the People called Quakers , I neither own nor know any that hold such Doctrines . So also his other saying , viz. This gross and vile Error , That Christ is not to come without us , in his glorified Body to judge all mankind , I find too many in England guilty of ; I esteem as a vile slander ; if , by many , he intend many of the People called Quakers . And his suggesting , that too probably they have drunk it in from some unsound Expressions in some of the printed Books too generally owned by them , discovers in him an unsound and evil mind : And speaks his inclination to quarrel with Friends in England , as well as he has already done in America . His Twenty First Charge against me is , Of Perversion and Fallacy , in covering these Men , because of their saying in their Papers , If any of us , or any countenanced by us have given you any Offence , either by any unsound Expressions , or by any ungospel-like Conversation , and the same be made to appear by credible Testimonies , We promise unto you , that if the Parties concerned do not condemn the same , they shall be disowned therein . To this fair offer he says , What more credible VVitnesses could be desired , than the several Manuscripts signed with their own hands , whom they have owned , & c ? But I ask him , Did he upon this Offer , complain to those Friends who made it , of any of them , or countenanced by them , that had used unsound Expressions ? Did he produce the Manuscripts he mentions , as Witnesses against those that Writ them ? Did the Monthly Meeting to which the Parties belonged refuse to hear his Complaint ? Did they reject his Manuscript Evidences ? If he did , upon this offer , make such Complaint , if he did produce his Manuscripts in Evidence , let him make appear when , where , at what Monthly Meeting he did this . But if he did not this , what he says now of it is but Fallacy and Deceit . Nor do I think it proper to take notice of what he now mentions out of his Manuscripts , because I do not think it safe to take it upon his Report . His Twenty Second , He calls my Perversion of his words , which were That ( after the Separation was actually begun , and he and his Party met apart from Friends ) he went to the Friends Meeting , and did there declare , that He and his Friends had Unity with the most there as to the main . From whence I inferr'd , If there had been such gross , vile and unchristian Errors , against the Fundamental Doctrines of the Christian Faith , such damnable Heresies , and Doctrines of Devlls , held amongst them , as he suggests , and cloaked , or covered , and tolerated by them , How could he say that he and his Friends had Unity with the most there , as to the Main ? This he would shift off , by alledging , That more than two thirds of that Meeting were Country Friends , who were come to that Meeting upon notice that J. Dickinson was to be there , and that there had not been any Breach between those Country Friends and him at that time . But this is a meer Fallacy . For it was not with respect to those Country Friends , that he said he had Unity with the most there ; but with respect to the Friends of that Meeting : For he says , he also signified his desire to be United to that Meeting ; not to the Friends of other Meetings in the Country ( for with them , he says , he had had no Breach ) but to that Meeting . And his connecting his Desire to be united to that Meeting , with his Declaration , that he and his Friends had Unity with the most there , restrains his declared Unity to the Friends of that Meeting ; and that Unity being declared to be as to the main , ( that is in the main and fundamental Doctrines of Christianity , ) his separating from that whole Society , or Meeting of Friends , with the most of whom he declared he had Unity in the Main , even after he had separated from them , is a Fault he can never justifie , nor excuse , by all the Fallacies he can invent . 23. What I said in the 45 , and 46. pages of my Epistle , concerning the sending over his scandalous Books from America , to one in London , who is not a Quaker , for him to expose to Sale as he would ; and G. K's . blaming them that reprinted his Books here , not for reprinting them , but only for altering their Titles , he passes over in silence , and Cavils at my shewing his Deceit in the use of the word many ( in his Causeless Ground , p. ●…2 . ) where he said , It is my charitable sincere Perswasion , that the worthy name of Christian doth truly belong to very many of that People , as well as unto me . From hence I inferr'd , He will not allow it ( it seems ) to the People called Quakers , or to the Body of Friends , as a People , no not so much as from a charitable Perswasion . And how insincere he was , in pretending to allow it to very many of that People , I shewed by his following words , which were , Having an experimental Proof , through intimate Conversation , and frequent verbal Communication with many of them , that they are sincere in the Christian Faith , &c. From whence I shew'd , To what a narrow scantling he had reduced his application of the name Christian among the Quakers , and how few he meant by very many ; even just so many as he hath an experimental Proof of , through intimate Conversation , and frequent verbal Communication with them , which how many they may be , judge ye ( said I ) considering how short a time he had then been in England , and in that time scarce or little out of London , nor very conversant with Friends there . This he calls ( as he doth most things ) a gross Forgery and Perversion ; and says , I did really mean not them only , but all them , whom I have at any time formerly had Experience of their Christianity , by intimate Conversation , and verbal Communication , either in England , or any other part of the World , that have given me no Occasion to think otherwise of them . This Fallacy will not help him . For as his Charitable Perswasion is grounded on his Experimental Proof , and that Proof drawn from intimate Conversation , and frequent verbal Communication : So that intimate Conversation , and frequent verbal Communication is restrained , by his own Words , to the time since he came last into England . For it is all in the Present Tense , none in the Preterit ; Having ( not having had , but now having ) an Experimental Proof through intimate Conversation , and frequent verbal Communication , with many of them , that they are ( not that they have been formerly , many Years ago , when I was in England before ; but that they now are ) sincere in the Christian Faith , and whose Life and Conversation doth seal ( not hath sealed ) unto the sincerity of their Christian Profession . By this , Friends , ye may see that I neither forged , nor Perverted his Words : But that he hath now put a false meaning upon his Words , which they will not bear . And that by very many , he meant those only that cleave to , or favour him , may be gathered from the boast he makes at the Entrance of his Loving Epistle ( as he calls it ) of the considerable Number he hath Experience are in Unity with him . 24. He calls it a Perversion of his words , that when ( in contradiction to the Advice of the Yearly Meeting , that he should call in his Books , or at least publish something innocently and effectually , to clear the Body of the People called Quakers , and their Ministers , from those gross Errors charged on some few in America ) he denied that he had charged the People called Quakers , either in general , or in the plurality ; I said , I had not found in his last Book , that he had cleared , or attempted to clear , the People called Quakers , there in general , or in the plurality ; and that he was scarce willing to allow the Name Christian to any more of them , than he had had experimental proof of , through intimate Conversation and frequent verbal Communication , &c. In this he says I pervert his words , and yet labours to justifie himself , for not allowing the Name Christian to the People called Quakers , from an Epistle of G. W's . to Friends . How ( says he ) can he , or I either , be positive to say , the People called Quakers are good Christians , either in general , or in the plurality , when G. W. hath told us in his printed Epistle — That few sincerely seek the Lord ? &c. So that he quarrels with me , for saying how unwilling he was to allow the Name Christian to the People called Quakers ; and yet urges G. W's . Epistle to justifie himself for not allowing the Name Christian to the People called Quakers , either in general , or in the plurality . And reciting divers passages from that Epistle , ( tending in a general way , to shew that many fall short of that watchful , diligent , close walking with the Lord , and inward Exercise of Mind towards him , that they should have : And too many are taken up with fading Objects , or cumbred with the Cares of this Life ) he endeavours from thence to justifie himself , for having exposed in Print to the scorn and contempt of the World , and in the most reproachful terms and manner , both many particular Persons by Name , and whole Meetings of Friends . For , says he , Nothing can be said against my printed Books , in reference to my publick witnessing against the Errors in Principles , whereof some are guilty in Pensylvania , and elsewhere , but what may be as much said against G. W. his reproving those great Vices and Immoralities among many called Friends , &c. That the falsness of this Comparison , which he makes between G. W.'s . Epistle and his own Books , may the better appear , let it be considered , that his Books contain the blackest Charges , with respect to Errors in Principles , that Man can be guilty of , viz. gross and vile Errors , contrary to the Fundamentals of Christianity , Da●… Heresies , and Doctrines of Devils , held by some , and covered or cloaked , and tolerated by others . But did G. W. in that Epistle charge any with the grossest Deaucheries , Uncleanness , prophaneness , Dishonesty , &c. that Mankind is o●… can be guilty of ? Or do his ●…ords import any more than a romisness , slackress , or falling short of only Exercising Spiritual 〈◊〉 , and being too much taken up with the things of this World ? And did he say , that such as were faulty in those things , were cloaked , or covered and tolerated therein by Friends ? No such matter . Therefore G. K. says falsly , in saying ( as before ) nothing can be said against his Printed Book , &c. But what may be as much said against G. W's , & e. And it is observable , that no publick Reproach was cast , by Truth 's Adversaries , upon Friends and Truth , from that Epistle of G. W's : whereas G. K's filthy and scandalous Books have brought very great Reproach upon Truth and Friends , from the Adversaries thereof . So that G. K's bringing G. VV's Epistle to justifie his own infamous Books , shews his own falness , but will not defend , or excuse him . Nor can he be excused for the Wrong , and Mischief , he hath done , in publishing those Scandalous Books of his , which he acknowledges he had a foresight and sense the Enemies of Truth would seek to take advantage from ; though he adds his sense and foresight , that , in the conclusion , they would be disappointed : As I also believe they will , by seeing , in the conclusion , his Deceit fully laid open , and Truth and Friends cleared from his false Accusations . Their disappointment he refers to the Conclusion : But the Advantage he has given them , by the mischief he has done , is present ; and he is industriously endeavouring to do more . He says , He did not think the simple Relation or Account of these things , would ●…r could be any proper cause of grief to feithful Friends , &c. Is this fit for a Wise Man to say ? A Boy from his Accidence could have told him that it is Insipientis dicere non putâram ; the property of a Fool ( when he has done mischief ) to say , I did not think , or I had not thought . 25. He would seem here to be very Zealous for the Yearly Meeting at London , and arraigns me for gross Perversion and Reflection on the Yearly Meeting : And yet before he passeth from this Head ; he kicks the Yearly Meeting out of Doors , and disowns it to be a Yearly Meeting , or any duly constituted Meeting at all . Nor can it be said , ( says he , p. 27. ) that that called the Yearly Meeting , was a free Meeting , for it was too private , and limited to too small a number , &c. and therefore it cannot be owned to be the Yearly Meeting , nor any Meeting duly and regularly constituted , &c. Ye see now , Friends , whither he is run , and to what a pass he is come ; having outrun , in this , ( so far as I remember ) all the Apostates that have gone before him . He disowns it to be a Yearly Meeting , or any Meeting at all duly constituted ; and yet takes upon him to impeach me of Perversion and Reflection on the Yearly Meeting . Is not this gross Hypocrisie in him ? The Perversion and Reflection he charges me with , is my saying , ( Supposing it were true in Fact , that no Untruth or Falshood in matter of Fact , had been discovered in his Books ) it was not the proper business of the Yearly Meeting to judge of the matters of Fact , contained in his Books , which were alledged to have been done in America , by Persons not here to answer to , or give account of them . And that none should think , that because the Yearly Meeting did not declare the matters of Fact in his Books to be false , therefore they are all true . They remain , said I , to be proved by him that has affirmed them , and to be answered by them who are charged therein . Now , though I suppose I have said enough to this matter , in the former part of this Book , in Answer to his Loving Epistle ( as he calls it ) to satisfie any reasonable Person . Yet because he repeats it here , I will not stick to take notice of it again . From my last Cited words , he notes , that I grant the Yearly Meeting did not declare the matter of Fact in his Books to be false ; and seeing ( as he says ) for matter of Doctrine they did not blame him , and yet he is blamed , he thinks I cast an unparalleled instance of Injustice on the Yearly Meeting , to blame him for things in his Book , that are neither matter of Doctrine , nor matter of Fact. In this he is very fallacious , playing upon the Words [ Matters of Fact. ] His Books contain many particular Matters , alledged by him to have been said or done , by many particular Persons in America , who were not at the Yearly Meeting at London , to Answer to , or give an Account of them . These Matters of Fact , I said , it was not the proper business of the Yearly Meeting to judge of ; ( so were my words expresly , Epistle p. 49. viz. It was not the proper business of the Yearly Meeting , to judge of the Matters of Fact , contained in his Books , which were alledged to have been done in America , by Persons not here to answer to , or give account of them . ) And to these Matters of Fact I referr'd , when I added , p. 50. Therefore let none think that because the Yearly Meeting did not declare the Matters of Fact in his Books to be false , therefore they are all true . They remain to be proved ( said I ) by him that has affirmed them ; and to be answered by them who are charged therein . Viz. Those particular Persons , who he says have said or done those particular Words or Deeds , by him charged , in his Books , upon them . What I there spake of those particular Matters of Fact , he stretches to Matter of Fact in general , and thence falsly inferrs , that I deny it was the proper business of the Yearly Meeting to judge of any Matter of Fact at all contained in his Books , or that the Meeting did declare any Matters of Fact at all in his Books to be false , And he argues upon it at a wild rate . Is not my clearing my self ( says he ) of the blame of the Sep●… ( 〈◊〉 despairing to acquit himself of the Act 〈◊〉 ●…eparation , he would now excuse himself of the blame of it ) a Matter of Fact in my Book ? This ( says he ) he saith , the Yearly Meeting hath not declared to be false in Matter of Fact , therefore they have not declared it , that my clearing my self of the Separation , is false ; and consequently , they have not declared the contrary , but that my clearing my self of the Separation is true ; and from hence again he infers , that I have contradicted the Judgment of that called , The Yearly Meeting Paper , which layeth the Separation at his door . Now , ( besides that his Argument is faulty and naught , the Terms in his Consequence not answering the Terms in his premises ) his way or manner of arguing here is meerly Sophistical , and grounded upon a false Position ; That I say , the Yearly Meeting hath not declared [ This ] to be false , ( This , viz. His clearing himself of the blame of the Separation ) whereas I never said so ; and his saying I have said so , is that in him , which he would have called gross Perversion , if not Forgery in me . But as my not saying so , clears me from his Charge of contradicting the Yearly Meeting in that ; so that Meeting 's laying the Separation at his Door , is at least an implicit Declaring , that what he hath said for the clearing himself of the Separation , or the blame thereof , is false . Nor will his other shift stand him in any stead , to acquit him from being the culpable Cause of the Separation ; which he endeavours to draw from those words in the Yearly Meetings Paper , viz. As to the Separation among Frie●…●…n America , arising from the unhappy Differences , &c. From whence he infers , that the Meeting makes the Differences between them in America , to be the Cause of the Separation . And from thence argues thus , And seeing the Original ground and Cause of the Differences , was the unsound and Erroneous Doctrines held by them of the other side , which that Paper called , A true Account of the Proceedings , &c. doth own them to be guilty of , it plainly appears , they of the other side , were the culpable Cause of the Separation , &c. Here again he is guilty of that , which he so often chargeth me with , Forgery and Perversion . He says , The Paper called , A true Account of the Proceedings , &c. doth own them of the other side to be guilty of unsound and Erroneous Doctrines . How false and unfair he is in this , the words of that Paper shall shew , which are these ; And although it appears that some few Persons have given Offence , either through Erroneous Doctrines , Unsound Expressions , or Weakness , Forwardness , want of Wisdom and right Understanding ; yet , &c. Here ye see , Friends , that that Paper of the Yearly Meeting is so far from owning them of the other side as he calls them ( that is , the Friends in America ) to be guilty of unsound and Erroneous Doctrines ( which G. K. here expresly says it doth ) that it doth not undertake to determine whether the Offence ( said to be given by some few Persons ) was through Erroneous Doctrines , and Unsound Expressions , or through Weakness , Forwardness , want of Wisdom and 〈◊〉 Understanding : And yet this Man hath the Confidence , and Falseness to say positively , That Paper doth own them guilty of holding Unsound and Erroneous Doctrines . By this y●… may see how false he is ; and how unfit he is to charge another with Forgeries and Perversions . This looks the worse in him , in as much as he , who here says , the Yearly Meeting owns them of the other side to be guilty of Unsound and Erroneous Doctrines , doth ( in his causeless ground of surmises , p. 5. ) secretly smite at that Meeting , for lessening and extennating such gross and vile Errors with the smooth name of Weakness . So that when his Blow is at the Yearly Meeting , he supposes them not to own the Friends guilty of Erroneous Doctrines , but of Weakness only : But when he strikes at the Friends in America , he affirms the Meeting doth own them guilty of Erroneous Doctrines : Thus , Ambodexter-like , he plays with both hands , as he apprehends it will make for his advantage . Now this feigned Proof of his , being taken away , his Argument falls ; and his supposing the Original ground and Cause of the Differences , to be the Unsoundand Erroneous Doctrines held by them of the other side , is but a vain Begging of the Question . Nor need the Original ground and Cause of those Differences in America , be sought for farther , or elsewhere , than in his own Ambitious , Quarrelsome , Restless temper and Spirit , which rather than be quiet , or let others be so , would create matter for Differences , by laying Trains in Discours●… 〈◊〉 trap and draw simple and well-meaning Men , to let fall some weak Expressions , which by wresting and misconstruction , might be brought to sound unsoundly . His mentioning the Differences betwixt Luther and the Church of Rome ( the application whereof he says , is easie to the case in hand ) shews his Proud Conceit of himself , and his vile Thoughts and contempt of Friends , notwithstanding his Hypocritical pretences elsewhere , of being in Unity , and intending to remain in Unity , with all Faithful Friends every where : Which I wish all Friends every where would well note . For Luther's difference , and Separation , was with , and from the whole Church of Rome . I hinted before , G. K's disowning the Yearly Meeting at London , to be the Yearly Meeting , or any Meeting Duly and Regularly constituted , which he doth more especialy in page 27. and then says , And this may clear me of these unjust and groundless Occasions , wherewith T. E. doth load me , as being guilty of Insincerity , Hypocrisie , Double-dealing , having not a Conscience &c. for my saying , in my Introduction to my Treatise , The Causless Ground , &c. I tenderly intreat and desire that none apply or construe any words contained in these following Lines , as intended by me in way of Reflection , Blame or Charge , against either the Body of Friends in general , or any particular Meeting or Meetings of Friends in particular , or against any Singular faithful Friend or Friends ●…soever . It seems by this , he had this equivocal 〈◊〉 in his mind , that not esteeming that 〈◊〉 to be the Yearly Meeting nor indeed any Meeting at all , duly and regularly constituted , nor the Friends that made it up to be faithful Friends ; he might throw his Reflections , Blame and Charge , freely enough upon that Meeting in general , and the Members thereof in particular , without interfering with his premised desire , that none would apply or construe any words contained in that Book , as intended by him in way of Reflection , Blame or Charge , against either the Body of Friends in general , or any particular Meeting or Meetings of Friends in particular , or against any Singular faithful Friend or Friends whatsoever . But what a depth of Deceit must lodge in him the mean-while ? 26. He Charges me with Perversion in saying , The Hurt , Mischief , Dishonour , Reproach , Grief , that have fallen on the Holy. Name of God , his Truth and People respectively , by the Printing and publishing his Scandalous Books , are the proper and direct Effect thereof . And he says , I bring no proof for it , but that it is apparent . I say there needs no proof for that that is apparent , as this is . And it is apparent also , that he had a sense and foresight , before he Printed them , that the printing and publishing those Books of his , would have that evil Effect , which he himself confessed in the beginning of one ( I think the first of them , Reas. of Sep. p. 2. ) where he said , It is too probable the Enemies of Truth , and of all true Religion , will seek to take advantage therefrom , and think themselves greatly gratified thereby , so as to rejoyce the more in their Iniquity , and glory over the Sincere Lovers and Professors of Tr●… ▪ What greater hurt or mischief could any do against the Truth , than to give advantage to the Enemies of Truth , and of all true religion , and thereby so greatly to gratifie them , that they should rejoyce the more in their iniquity , and glory over the sincere Lovers and Professors of Truth ? And to do this knowingly , and against a fore-sight and sense , that the Enemies of Truth , and of all true Religion , would seek to take this advantage ? Did the Prophets , Iohn , Christ , the Apostles , any of those he would shelter himself under , ever do any thing like this ? Nay sure . And had he not been heady , high-minded , self-willed and regardless of Truth ; the fore-sight and sense he had of that , which we have since seen come to pass ( viz. That the Enemies of Truth , and of all true Religion , have not only sought , but found , and taken the Advantages he has given them , and gratified them with , to rejoyce the more in their ( and his ) Iniquity , and glory over the sincere Lovers and Professors of Truth ; ) would have stopt him from publishing those Scandalous Books of his , which have been the proper and direct Cause of so great hurt and mischief . To excuse himself from which he again attempts in vain , to frame an Argument from my having said , The Yearly Meeting did not declrae the matter of Fact in his Books to be false ; and since for matter of Doctrine , they have not ( says he ) charged me in the least ; how then can a Book , which bath nothing of Untruth or Falshood in it , be the proper cause of hurt ? In 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 useth a Double fallacy ; one in stretching 〈◊〉 words of mine , concerning matters of 〈◊〉 a general sense , which are expresly restrained in my Books , to particulars . The other , in inferring that his Book , hath nothing of Untruth or Falshood in it ; because the Yearly Meeting , who were not acquainted with the particular matters of Fact , did not declare that his Books containe any Untruth or Falshood in matter of Fact ; as if there could be no Untruth or Falshood in a Book ; unless it were declared to be in it . What sort of Logick is that ? Will he stand by it ? That if a Meeting doth not declare a Book to contain any Untruth or Falshood in it , it thence follows , that that Book hath nothing of Untruth or Falshood in it ? He knows this is false Reasoning , and he may blush to have offered it . And as he says , ex veris , nil nisi verum ; so I may say to him , ex falsis , nil nisi falsum , and ex malis , nil nisi malum : From such false and evil arguing as his is , he can bring forth nothing that is good . 27. His 27th seemeth to be split off from his 26th , only to encrease the number , that he may not fall short at last of his Tale ; for upon my saying , he has been so far from endeavouring to wipe away the Reproach his Scandalous Books have cast on Truth and Friends , that in his last ( called , The Groundless Cause of Surmises , &c. ) he hath sought occasion , by secret flurts , to throw more on ; suggesting as if the Yearly Meeting was guilty of covering or cloaking thosevile Errors heexclaim'd against , and of lessening them with the smooth name of Weakness . He replies , How can faithful witnessing against Error , be a throwing Reproach on Truth , and Friends of it ? he may as well say , one contrary produceth another , &c. Ye see ●…now Friends , how forward he is advanced in his Charge of Error , and what ye may expect from him , when ever he shall have a mind to throw Dirt upon any or all of you . He can instance himself under the pretence of faithful witnessing again●… Error , and then tell you ye may as well say Truth produceth Error , Light Darkness , Good Evil , as that he doth Evil in throwing Dirt on you . 28. His next Cavil , which he calls Perversion and Fallacy in me , is , that I seem to own the Doctrine in his Book , and yet altogether wave the chief thing of Doctrin , wherein the Controversie , he says , lieth betwixt them of the other side and him , and as he judges betwixt him and me , viz. That the faith of Christ , as he died for our Sins , and rose again ; is necessary to our Christianity and Salvation ; that God doth justifie us , and pardon our Sins for Christ's sake , who died for us ; through our Faith in him , that is always accompanied with sincere Repentance . In this he hath judged wrong ; for I have no Controversie with him about this Doctrine , which I own as well as he . And if he had not had a wilfully bad memory , he might have remembred that himself hath cited a Passage out of a former Book of mine , ( Foundation of Tythes shaken , p. 240. ) where I say , If any one expects Remission of Sins by any other way than the Death of Christ , he renders the Death of Christ us●…ss . This Passage which I then urged against the Priest , on behalf of the Quakers , clears me now from G. K's . groundless suggestion . His Cavil at me now is , for not reciting the fore-mentioned Doctrine ( of the Faith of Christ , as he died for our Sins , &c. ) when I recited other Doctrines out of his Book ; and he takes advantage thence to call ●…is the chief Doctrine in Controversie betwixt him and them of the other side . By this I perceive I must either quote all , or nothing out of his Books , if I mean to escape his Censure ; for I am perswaded had I recited this , and omitted any other of the Doctrines he mentioned , that Doctrine should then have been singled out for the chief Doctrine in Controversie betwixt him and them , whatever it had been . The truth is , I omitted to recite that , as not understanding he had reputed that a Doctrine in Controversie between him and them . And therefore I chose to recite those Doctrines about which I apprehended he had made the greatest Clamour . He would increase his own , and others Jealousie concerning me , by noticing , that I joyn not ( as he says ) the works of Sanctification in the Heart , to Christ's outward Appearance , but to his inward Appearance . This he labours to shew , from several Passages in my Epistle , which mention Christ's inward Appearance , and work of Sanctification in the Heart : To all which , I give this short and plain Answer ; I do not divide Christ , nor set his inward Appearance in opposition to his outward . And therefore when I speak of Christ's inward Appearance in the Heart , and the work of Sanctification wrought there , I do not exclude , nor intend to exclude , his outward Appearance in the Flesh , and what he did and suffered therein for Man's Redemption , from being concerned in our Sanctification , through a living Faith in him . But I do not allow , that the work of Sanctification is wrought in any , by that outward Appearance of Christ in the Flesh , in whom his inward Appearance , by his Light , Grace and Spirit in the Heart , is not known , received and subjected unto . And it is this inward Appearance of Christ , that gives Man a right knowledge of , and saving faith of the outward Appearance of Christ. 29. His next is no less a Charge against me , than that of gross and bold Fiction and Forgery , in saying , Whatever Jealousies and Dissatisfactions any of other Professions had entertained against us on this account before , they had no ground or occasion given them therefore ; whereas now he has given them occasion , though unjustly , and without cause , to entertain wrong jealousies of us . This he says is false in both parts : 1. That other Professions had no ground of Dissatisfaction given them , touching these Doctrines , before his Books came forth ; for they had ( he says ) but too much ground from too many unsound Expressions contained in their Books ; ( In whose Books ? he must needs mean the Books of Friends ; and why not in his own Books , as likely as in any others ? ) and which , says he , some of that Profession hath objected unto me . That Profession , what Profession ? We spake of other Professions in general , not of any one Profession in particular . But whatever Profession it was that objected , or whatever were the Expressions objected against , they were such , he says , as he could not answer , otherwise than to acknowledge them to be unsound . If this be true , I am perswaded it was since he himself came to be unsound . And this Passage of his puts me in mind of that filthy Libel , lately published with the Letters D. S. to it , in which I thought I trackt the print of his Foot. 2. He says , it is false that he has now given them occasion to entertain wrong Iealousies of us . But in this he contradicts Experience , and the several Pamphlets that some of other Professions , grafting on his Crab-stock , have either reprinted of his , or printed of their own , grounded on his , against us , prove what I said to be true . His saying , That it is clear , as the Light of the Noon Day , that particular Persons among us , are chargeable with erroneous Doctrines , is without Proof . And if when he says , It is clear , he means by his Books , it is so far from being clear as the Light of the Noon Day , that it is not near so clear as Moon-shine . 30. He quarrels with me for construing his Words , That the Doctrine of Christ crucified , &c. was buried in silence , as if he understood it generally and universally ; whereas ( he says ) his Words have a Restriction and Limitation very expresly ; for ( says he , I do not say buried in silence by all or most part , or opposed by all , or most part ; but buried in silence by some , and opposed by others . So I cited his Words before , and thereupon put the Question , What saving is here , what Exception made , either of the Quakers in general , or in the Plurality , or indeed of any at all ? Buried by some , and opposed by others , will hardly pass for a very express Restriction and Limitation . Nay , according to common manner of speaking , some , and others , may be taken to comprehend all in this case ; especially , when we shall consider , that he represents these Doctrines as Dead , let fall , extinct ; which ( as I noted before , though he takes no notice of it ) is implied by his Words [ to revive and raise up ] . Nor does his later Invention help him , to wit , that he did chiefly intend this , with respect to those parts of America where the Controversie began ; for his Word [ Chiefly ] shews he did intend it elsewhere besides America . And he now says , he finds it buried with too many hereaway in England , as well as in America : Nay , he can conclude no other , he says , concerning me . But the best on 't is , I am not to be concluded by his Conclusions . 31. His One and Thirtieth is worded nonsensically : But that which I gather to be his meaning in it is , that my saying , The Servant is not to frame his Message himself , but to deliver the Message his Lord gives him to deliver ; ( which was said to answer , or rather obviate an Objection , That those Doctrines relating the Birth ; Death , Resurrection , Ascension , &c. of Christ , as to the outward Body , are not so frequently or constantly declared in our publick Meetings , as those that relate to the inward Appearance and work of Christ in the heart . ) He says , imports , that the Lord doth not call his Servants so frequently to preach the Faith of Christ without , as of Christ within ; and this , he saith , proveth , that in the Opinion of T. E. the Doctrine and Faith of Christ without , is not so necessary to Regeneration , as the Faith of Christ within , or rather not at all absolutely necessary . This is a grosser Perversion , on his part of my Words , than any he can charge on me ; for the Reason I gave for this , was , not that it was less necessary , but that it was more known . Therefore I said , p. 55. When it pleased God to raise up , and send forth a true Gospel Ministry again , &c. it was agreeable to the Divine Wisdom , to bring to light that which had been hidden , to restore to the Nations that which had been lost , to turn People to that which they had been turned from , to instruct them in that which they were most ignorant of , &c. Hence ( said I , ) I conceive it hath come to pass , that they whom the Lord have sent forth to preach the everlasting Gospel in this Day , have been led and guided by him , to teach People that which they knew not , rather than that which they profest to know before ; to open those Doctrines of Life and Salvation , which the People were ignorant of , and Strangers to , rather than those which they were acquainted with , and had been all along trained up in . From all which it is very apparent , that I did not deny the Doctrine and Faith of Christ without , to be necessary to our Regeneration , as well as that of Christ within ; but that that without was more known already to the People , than that within . 32. He quarrels with me for saying , That though , as the Apostasy from the life and power of Christianity gained place , &c. the inward Appearance of Christ by his Spirit in the Heart , was departed from , and the Doctrines thereof generally lost and forgotten : Yet the Doctrines relating to the outward Appearance of Christ in the Flesh , and what he therein did , and suffered for Man's Redemption , were not lost , but retained and preached through all Ages , and by every sort or sect of professed Christians ; insomuch that G. K. now calls those Doctrines which he pretends to be raised up to revive and raise up , such Doctrines as are held in common by us with all other Professions . This angers him so , that I have scarce found him more fretful in any part of his Book than here : From whence I conclude he finds himself pincht , and would supply his weakness and want of Argument , with noise and angry words . He calls it Fallacy , Perversion , Feigning , Threadbare Excuse , Fig-leaf that cannot cover , deceitful Excuse , frivolous Excuse , &c. His Answer is , The true Doctrin of the Faith of Christ without , as he came in the Flesh , &c. was as much lost in the time of the Apostasy , as the true Doctrine of the Faith of Christ within ; to wit , not the bare historical literal faith of Christ , that I confess was not lost ; but the true living Faith , and the Doctrine of it , was as much lost , as that of his inward Appearance . Here he varies the Terms from the Doctrines relating to the outward Appearance of Christ , ( which was the subject we were upon , ) to the true living Faith , and the Doctrine of it , ( which was not the Subject we were upon . ) And to prove his Charge against me , of Fallacy , Perversion , Feigning , &c. He alledges that the true living Faith , and the Doctrine of it , was lost in the Apostasy ; which it might be , and yet the Doctrines relating to the outward Appearance of Christ in the Flesh , &c. might not be lost , as I asserted they were not . This shifting the Terms , is a Fallacy and Perversion in him , and seems to be done with design to help himself off from what he was upon . But he cannot so escape , he has hampered himself too fast to get off : For in his Causeless Ground , p. 3. this very Doctrine of the Faith of Christ without , viz. That the Faith of Christ , as he died for our Sins , and rose again , is necessary to our Christianity and Salvation , and that God doth justify us , and pardon our Sins for Christ's sake , who died for us , through faith in him , that is always accompanied with sincere Repentance , &c. This I say , ( which he now says , was as much lost as the true Doctrine of the Faith of Christ within , ) is there set by G. K. amongst the many great Doctrines of the Christian Faith , ( and the first of them , ) which he says we hold in common with all sorts of other Professions . But if this Doctrine of the Faith of Christ without was lost , as he says it was , how comes it that all sorts of other Professions have it , and hold it in common with him , as he says they do ? If he and they hold it in common , they must hold it as he doth . And that he holds they do so , appears by his saying , Many of all sorts that frequent our Meetings , of other Professions , are well affected with our Testimony , to the inward Appearance of God in Christ , together with the Holy Spirit in Mens Hearts , while they find us warm and zealous in our Testimony to the other great Doctrines of the Christian Faith , held in common with them . Of which , in the next Line , he gives this Doctrine of the Faith of Christ without , for the first instance , as I have cited it before . But if all sorts of other Professions hold it , and hold it as he doth , ( which they must , if he hold it in common with them , ) how can he say ( and say truly , ) that it hath been as much lost in the time of the Apostasy , as the true Doctrine of the Faith of Christ within ? Sure he will not say , that the true Doctrine of the Faith of Christ withn , is held in common by him , with them of all sorts of other Professions . Besides , seeing ( as G. K. says , ) The true Doctrine of the Faith of Christ without , teacheth , Th●… the only true saving Faith of Christ'●… Death , &c. is wrought in Mens Hearts , by Divine Illumination , Revelation and Inspiration , and is taught and begot by the Spirit in Mens Hearts : There is the greater reason that the inward Appearance of Christ by his Light , Grace and Spirit in the Heart , should be the more frequently preached , and Men directed and turned to that inward Teaching by the Spirit in their Hearts , that by the Divine Illumination , Revelation and Inspiration thereof , the true Faith of Christ's death , &c. may be begot and wrought in their Hearts . His 33d , 34th , 35th Charges , relate all to one matter , and seem to be divided and subdivided by him , to make the greater shew . The first he calls a Perversion of his modest Proposition , about correcting some unsound Words in some Friends Books , as if with purpose he would hunt for , discover and expose , if he can , the nakedness of such as in comparison of himself , may justly be reputed and called Fathers in the Truth . This he thinks an uncharitable construction of his Words , and that no good Christian that loves the Truth more than Men , would judge the worse of him for correcting them tenderly and Christianly , not as an Enemy , but as a Friend and Brother . But it may be guessed how tenderly and Christianly he would deal with the Dead , by his harsh and unchristian dealing with the Living , whom he has not dealt with us as a Friend and Brother , but as an Enemy : His comparing his correcting work to Sem's and Iaphet's going backwards to cover their Father's Nakedness , gave me fit occasion to tell him he had mistook his point , and taken up Ham's work , instead of Sem's and Iaphet's . For Sem and Iaphet covered the Nekedness , which execrable Ham had discovered and exposed , as G. K. would do . In this he says , I falsly accuse him ; but instead of proving I do so , he turns off , and says , I reflect not only on him , but on the late Christian Teachers and Writers , who have corrected the Errors and unsound Expressions contained in the Books of them , called the Greek and Latin Fathers . In comparing the Books of Friends , to the Books of them called The Greek and Latin Fathers , he has not done as a Friend and Brother , but as an Enemy ; in supposing Friends Books to have been written by no better guidance , nor clearer sight , than theirs who lived and writ in those dark times . He is so idle , as to charge me with perverting the Scripture Words , in saying , Blessed Sem and Japhet did therefore go backward , that they might not see their Father's Nakedness . And he makes this one of my 50 Perversions , by which you may see how hard he was put to it to make his number up . But instead of proving this a Perversion , he says , As if there were not a further matter and mystery in it . Perhaps there might be ; but if there were , he hath not shewed it , nor my Perversion . But he says , If it had been only that they must not see their Father's nakedness , they might have covered their Face and Eyes , and gone forward , and not see their Father's Nakedness . But they took a more sure way in going backward , and that which freed them from all suspicion of seeing , or being willing to see their Father's Nakedness . 36. He says , I pervert his modest Proposition , ( for every Proposition of his is modest with him ; and perhaps none but his . ) That every one owned by us to be a Member of our Christian Society , give some Declaration of their Faith. This which he calls a modest Proposition , I shewed from his own Words , was an Imposition of a Verbal Confession of Faith , without which none should be admitted into Church fellowship with him . His Words are , We are convinced and perswaded in our Consciences , that God calleth us to separate from such Unbelievers , and not to be yoked together in Church-fellowship and Discipline with any that we have not proof of by Confession of the Mouth , &c. Reas. of Sep. p. 22. 37. He complains also , and makes it his 37th Charge , that I pervert his Words , that he makes a verbal Confession , the Door of admittance into our Society ; which , he says , is altogether false . This depends upon the former , and is proved by those Words of his which I gave for proof of that , viz. We are convinced ( said he ) and perswaded in our Consciences , that God calleth us to separate , &c. and not to be yoked together in Church-fellowship and Discipline , with any that we have not proof of , by Confession of the Mouth , &c. This is that I call Verbal Confession . If he like not the Word Verbal , let him take Oral , or Confession of the Mouth , which is all one . From my observing out of R. Barclay's Book , called the Anarchy , p. 48. ( which G. K. had perversly quoted , ) that R. B. doth not make a bare Profession , verbal Confession or Declaration of Principles , &c. to be any Terms at all of Church-Communion , G. K. taking it to himself , charges a Perversion on me , and says , This is false , I make them not the Terms at all , when the Profession is but barely verbal . But he hath no such guard in the Place before quoted , where he says , We are convinced , &c. that God calleth us to separate , &c. and not to be yoked in Church fellowship , &c. with any that we have not proof of by Confession of the Mouth , that they are sound in the Faith. So that he makes a Verbal Confession , a proof of their being sound in the Faith , and this makes a Verbal Confession , yea , a bare verbal Confession , sufficient to yoke them , ( as he phrases it ) together in Church-fellowship . His 39th , 40th , and 41st , Relate to his pretended Quotations out of R. Barclay's Book , before mentioned , and my Observations thereupon , from which he picks several Quarrels ; one , that from his saying ( as the express Doctrine of R. B. though it be not , ) That some Principles and Doctrines and Points of Faith are necessary to be agreed upon , &c. and to be owned , professed and declared by us , to be as it were the Terms that draw us together , and the Bond by which we become centred into one Body and Fellowship , &c. He says , I pervert his Words to a wrong sense ; as if his Sense were , That Men were to contrive and cut out their own Terms , and before they entred into a Society or Fellowship , should consider , consult and conclude among themselves what Principles , Doctrines and Practices they would have to be the Terms and Bond of their Society . Though this was not spoken directly of him , ( but with respect to the Quotation he feigned to give out of R. B. ) yet he did well enough to take it to himself ; for I verily think it to be his Sense , and the Terms he propounded it in , speak the same . And though he says he did not mean by agreeing , a humane , political Contrivance or Design , but a Divine Agreement ; yet I make no question but he meant an Agreement of his own contriving and cutting out : And I doubt not that he would call any such thing Divine , that were of his Contriving . He asks , If I know not that Men may well agree together in one Faith , by the Spirit 's inward working in their Hearts , as well as they may agree together in one Prayer , by the Spirit , & c ? I answer , Yes , I do . But would he have some certain Form of Prayer agreed upon , and set forth , for all to be obliged to pray by at all times , because Men may agree together in one Prayer by the Spirit ? That would be Common Prayer indeed . It is one thing to propose certain Principles , Doctrines and Points of Faith to be necessarily agreed upon , and being so agreed upon , a Confession thereof to be imposed to be owned , professed and declared to be , as it were , terms of Communion , and the Bond of Fellowship : And it is another thing to be drawn together by the inward force and vertue of Truth , through the Operation of the Divine Spirit in the Heart , into an Agreement in the Belief of the same Principles , Doctrines and Points of Faith ; and so also to agree substantially in making confession thereof , when and wheresoever the honour of God requires it of us . My Discovery that he has falsly quoted R. B. angers him extreamly , and he rails at me for it like himself ; but that will not clear him . He says , I most fraudulently put a false gloss upon his Words , about the Word [ agreed on ] ; and next , that I deceive and abuse my Reader , as if he ( G. K. ) did put the same Gloss upon R. B 's Words . But all this is trifling ; both his Book and mine are in the Reader 's Hands , and I dare trust it to the Impartial Reader 's Judgment . He complains that I endeavour to make the Reader believe he wronged R. B. in citing some Words of his , and that because he cited not so many of his Words , as I cited after him . This is a foul fallacy ; for G. K's Blame lies not in giving a Quotation out of R. B. too short , but in giving a false Quotation for a true one ; or in forging a Quotation . For neither in the Words he quoted , nor in that Page , nor in that Book , nor in all the Books of R B. can G. K. find that which he has pretended to give , as the express Doctrine and Testimony of R. B. in the 48th Page of R. B's Book , called the Anarchy &c. He struggles to get loose , but cannot ; He says , he cited as many of R. B's Words , as were sufficient to prove , that it is R. B's Doctrine and Testimony , that Principles and Doctrines , &c. are as it were the Terms that have drawn us together , &c. But R. B. doth not say so of Principles and Doctrines indefinitely , or of the Principles and Doctrines in general , that we will agree upon to be such ; but of those Principles , Doctrines and Practices , into the belief of which we are gathered together , without any Constraint or Worldly respect , by the meer force of Truth upon our Understandings , and its power and influence upon our Hearts . Again , G. K. says he did not say R. B. used the Word [ Agreed ] : See his own Words , in p. 8. of his Book called The causeless Ground of Surmises , which are these , That some Principles and Doctrines , and Points of Faith , are necessary to be agreed upon , &c. is the express Doctrine and Testimony of R. Barclay 's Book above mentioned , pag. 48. Judge now how little this Man is to be trusted . He calls it a gross Perversion in me , for ins●…ating , that in his Book ( Some Reasons and Causes , pag. 16. ) He had cited R. B's Words . But it was not ( says he ) his Words , but his Doctrine , that I mention in that place , as to the substance of it , but not as to that particular circumstance of answering to some plain Questions with Yea ; or nay . Had not I discovered his Falshood in this , he had gon off snug with his Quotation , as a very fair Quotation taken out of R. B's Book . But now he is put to his shifts ; and to shift it off , he pretends now that he did not intend to give R. B's Words , but his Doctrine ; and lest that cover should prove too short for him , he falls from the Doctrine , to the substance of the Doctrine . Now let us repeat again the Quotation he gave , and then let the Reader Judge of it . It is in p. 16. of his Reason of the Separation , where he proposes , that we agree together to put Rob. Barclay 's Doctrine into Practice , which , says he , is ( He does not say , the substance of which is , but which is ) to declare our Faith and Perswasion in certain Fundamental Doctrines of the Christian Faith and Religion , that by the same , as well as by a good Life and Conversation , it may be known who are qualified to be Members of our Church , and that every one owned to be a Member of our Church , declare his Faith and Perswasion in every one of these Fundamentals , which is a Secondary Bond of our Union , the Spirit being the Principal , which may be easily done by answering to some plain questions , with Yea , or Nay . Let any one now , that reads these words , Judge whether they were not designed to perswade the Reader , that not only this was R. B.'s Doctrine , but that these were the very words in which he had delivered it . Whereas ye see now , G. K. not only confesses they are not his words , but dares not adventure to say , they are plainly and directly his Doctrine ; but the substance of his Doctrine : And yet even that I deny . I say they are neither R. B.'s , Words nor Doctrine , nor the Substance of his Doctrine . And had his Quotation lain in a tolerable compass to be recited , I would have given it : But he cites for it , Sect. 4 , p. 32 , 33. and Sect. 6. p. 48 , 49. to which I again refer and recommend every Reader , that has or can proc●…re that Book of R. B.'s called The Anarchy of the Ranters , &c. That G. K.'s Deceit herein may be more generally known . He says all my proof , that it is not R. B. 's Doctrine , is , that I assure the Reader , it is not : But ( says he ) let the Reader compare my Citations at length , ) in my Reason and Cause of Separation , p. 24 , 25. and he shall find it is his Doctrine . But , besides my assuring the Reader it is not so , and my Referring him for certainty to the Original Book ; I have now too other proofs to offer , which though not positive and direct , are strong Presumptives against G. K. One is , that he hath not attempted to Prove that this is the Doctrine or Substance of the Doctrine of R. B. in that Book , by producing now R. B.'s own words to manifest it . And the other is , that he doth not now refer his Reader to R. B.'s Book for Satisfaction ; but to his own Book , and the Quotations therein , which he pretends to have taken out of R. B.'s Book , which perhaps he may have falsified , as well as this . 42. His next Cavil is grounded on a Quibble , In his Causless ground of Surmises , p. 10. he said , I●… it not high time that by the general Consent , advice and approbation of the most Iudicious , Wise and Understanding of Friends now alive , all the most necessary Principles and Doctrines of our Faith , both common and peculiar , should be published and made known ? &c. I minding more the Substance of his proposition , than Circumstances , Answered , Is that , as a new thing , to be done now ? adding , What Principle , or Doctrine of our Faith , either common or peculiar , can he assign , that hath not been published and made known , perhaps before he knew either our Faith or us ? He calls this a Perversion , and says , It is a new thing yet to be done ; and he believes I am not able to shew him that Book where it is done by general Consent . So that I perceive he expects it all in one Book . But what if it be done in several Books , and that by some that are not now alive , who yet perhaps might be as Judicious , Wise and Understanding , as any that are now alive ? Will not this serve his turn ? I doubt , Not : For he will object perhaps that it has not been●… done by general Consent of the most Judicious , Wise and Understanding Friends ? He says , It is not the consent of a few , or of the Second Days Meeting at London , who ( that he may speak in the words , as well as from the Spirit of Core ) he says take too much upon them , that he means , but the general Consent of the most Iudicious Friends . But how will he do to find out the most Iudicious Friends now alive ? Who , does he think ( himself excepted ) Judicious enough to Judge , who are the most Iudicious , Wise and Understanding Friends now alive ? But before so great and difficult a work be undertaken , it may be fit to consider what need there is of this . The Apostles of our Lord , and the Primitive Christians , contented themselves without it . Did they ever get together the most Judicious , Wise and understanding amongst them , to publish by their general Consent all the most necessary Principles and Doctrines of their Faith , both common and peculiar ? I believe he is not able to shew me that Book wherein that is done . Yet the necessary Principles and Doctrines , of their Faith , both common and peculiar , were published and made known by some or other of them , in their several writings , though not in one Book , or by such general consent , advice and approbation , as he now proposes . And he hath not assigned any Principle , or Doctrine of our Faith , ( which is the same with theirs of old ) that hath not been already published and made known . His 43 , 44 , 45. Charges relate to his Suggesting that Friends make plain Language , plain habit , &c. Terms of their Communion ; which I refuted so fully before , that I see no cause to say more to it now , especially since he offers nothing of moment now against what I then writ . His 46. he calls Perversion in me , for chargeing him with Spurning disdainfully at the advice given him , to retract the Bitter Language in his Books . Whereas , says he , I modestly promise to do it , when they have told me what hard or bitter words I have given to any , that are not due to them , withall desiring some to give me their good Example . Is this , says he , any disdainful Spurning ? What is disdainful Spurning of advice ? If to recriminate the Advisers , and charge them higher in the same kind , be not ? For to their Advice , says he , I Answer , some who have so advised me , should give me their good Example , by retracting their much more bitter Language , and more hard and severe Names they have given , &c. Is not this disdainful Spurning ? And whereas he pretends , that he modestly promised to retract , when they have told him what hard or bitter words he hath given to any that he cannot prove to be due unto them ; he must remember I put him formerly in mind , that by his own confession he gave his hard Names and words without proof of their being due to them . For in his Plea of the Innocent p. 11. he says , As for his giving hard Names and Words to any , it was but conditional , upon Supposition of their holding such Errors which they did seem to favour . Was this modestly done ? Or like a Christian , to revile and abuse Persons conditionally , and upon Supposition ? Why did he not clear himself of this ? Or confess his fault in it ? Was it not because he could not do the one , and hath not honesty enough to do the other . 47. He persists in retracting the acknowledgment he made in the Yearly Meeting , of his passions , &c. Yet blames me for saying he retracted , and denies he acknowledged he had justly offended any in words or deeds , relating to the differences in Pensilvania , or elsewhere . But he answers not what I writ of that before ( in my 64 , 65 , 66 , and 67. pages , ) which lies still on him , and will. 48. So will also what I there said ( from Iames 1. 26. and 3. 11. 12. ) concerning his unbridled Tongue ; which he in vain retorts on me , as guilty of the Perversions , Fictions and Forgeries , &c. he charges : Which being not real but feigned by him , and charged without proof , is a further proof against him , that his Fountain is bitter , and his Religion vain . 49. His charging me with Perversion , in affirming that he was not condemned in Pensilvania without all hearing Conviction and Trial , is a Perversion of his own . For ( though I believe it is true that he was not ) yet I did not so affirm ; but taking notice of his frequent Complaining that he had been Condemned in America , without all hearing Conviction or Trial , I said , in a Parenthesis , ( though that is both denied and disapproved by the Friends there . ) So that his is rather a Perversion , or false Charge upon me . 50. The last of his Fifty Charges , he calls a Complex and Bundle of false Accusations and Misrepresentations . The parts whereof are ; First , That I say he is not in Unity with faithful Friends . This is not only too true , but too plain to be doubted . Secondly , That I accuse him of hardness in his saying , I declare my real Intention to remain in Unity with all Faithful Friends . What else could it be , but extream Hardness , for him to declare his real intention to remain in Unity with all Faithful Friends every where , after he had ( as I there shewed ) broken from the Unity , and gone out into an open Separation from Friends ? Thirdly , That his Meeting with Friends , and continuing to exercise his Gift of Ministry ( as he calls it ) amongst them , is a very great Exercise and burden to Friends . I was not positive it is . But I said to Friends , If he continue to Meet with you in the same Spirit , and mind , in which he went out from Friends , and made the Breach and Separation elsewhere , his Meeting with you will be but a Burden to you , and an aggravation of Condemnation to himself . And with respect to his Preaching in Friends Meetings , I said , While he continues in that Evil Mind , and Spirit of Contention , Division , and Discord , wherein he hath of late appeared , it must needs be a very great Exercise and Burden to you . But I am not dissatisfied with his changing the Words from [ Will be ] and [ must needs be ] , to [ is ] : For I am fully satisfied it is so ; and ye , my Friends , whose suffering Lot it is to hear him , I make no question , find and feel it so . Fourthly , That he gave such Interruption , and made so great disturbance at the First Publick Meeting he appeared in at London ( which was at the Bull and Mouth , ) as the like hath scarce been known in any Meeting in that City . Of this there were so many Witnesses present , that he might with the like Modesty deny he was at that Meeting , as that he made such a Disturbance there . He asserts again his being in Unity , thus ; As I am at present in Unity with Faithful Friends , so I still declare my sincere Intention to remain in Unity with Faithful Friends . But as he is not at present in Unity : So his declared intention to remain in Unity , is not sincere . He says , Neither I , nor any of my Abettors , can prove him guilty of making any Breach , or Violation of true Unity with Faithful Friends . Friends , Ye who have his Books , and mine , before you , are the proper Judges of that ; and to your Judgment I leave it . But what heed can be given to the Words of a Man , who speaks not plainly , but with Equivocation ? In his Causeless Ground of Jealousies , he tenderly intreated that none would apply or construe any Words therein , as intended by him in way of Reflection , blame or Charge against either the Body of Friends in general , or any particular Meeting , &c. Yet in that Book reflected on , blamed and charged the Yearly Meeting highly . But he had an Equivocating Salvo to himself , which was that he did not own that to be the Yearly Meeting , or any Meeting at all duly and regularly Constituted . Now he cryes he is in Unity with all Faithful Friends . And how ( in his reserved sense ) can that be otherwise , since he owns none for Faithful Friends , but such as are in Unity with him ? He refers to the Innocency of his Life and Conversation , for Proof of the sincerity of his Spirit and Heart . But he will get little advantage that way . It is not enough for a Man to be free from gross Immoralities , and the common Debaucheries of the Age : ( For that an Hypocrite will take care to be : ) But he that will recommend the sincerity of his Heart and Spirit , by his Conversation , must have his Conversation blameless towards God , as well as towards Man : For there is a Conversation in the Church , as well as in the World ; and he that orders his Conversation aright , will be careful not to give Offence to the Church of God , as well as not to the World. What G. K's . Conversation is in the World , I ●…ddle not with . But what his Conversation of ●…to Years hath been , in the Church , with res●…ct to his raising Contention and Strife , sowing Discord , causing Divisions , and making an open Rent and Breach , his unruly and turbulent Carriage and Behaviour , Rayling a ●…and Reviling Friends at his pleasure , is too notoriously manifest to need proof . And therefore , while his Tree brings forth such Evil Fruits , he can have no Relief , by urging , That the Tree should be judged by its Fruits ; by which it is already judged , and found to be of a corrupt Nature . He suggests that I , and some others who promote my Book , seek to drive him forth from the Unity and Fellowship of Friends , and from abiding in the Inheritance of the Lord ; Whereas it is certain and evident , that he was gone from the Unity and Fellowship of Friends , before my Book was Written , or I had any thing to do with him . And how little he regards the Inheritance of the Lord , to abide in it , may be gathered , not only from his joyning himself to the Separate Meeting in Harp-Lane , but his going to the Meetings of other Professions of almost all sorts . He would shake off the blame , of having made that disturbance , which was at the Bull-Meeting in London , presently after he came over , by saying , Many can , and do bear him witness , that he was not the Cause , nor beginning of it . This I leave to you , Friends of London , who were then present , to judge of , and to measure the Truth of what he says in other things , by his falseness in this . He adds , It ought not to be reckoned a disturbance , when Errors and false Doctrine is Preached in a publick Assembly , in a Zealous Christian Spirit to reprove it , when things are come to that pass especially , that private Reproof is not regarded . By this he suggests , that Error , and false Doctrine was Preached in that publick Assembly at the Bull , and that by some whom he had reproved privately for the same before . But of this he hath given no Proof , nor Instance ; both which unless he do , he is justly to be reputed a false Accuser and Slanderer . But to balance the Disturbance made at the Bull , he puts me in mind of a Disturbance , which he says I made at Grace-Church-street Meeting , in speaking against a Person , whose Ministry ( he says ) was well owned by Hundreds , some of which , he says , cryed out on me ; Shame , Shame . To which I say , I remember well both the time and occasion of that Disturbance ; which was not made by me , but by a sort of Unruly People that joyned with that unruly Person . As for my part , I did not in that Meeting interrupt that Person while he was speaking , but waited long ( under a very great weight and Burden , that his Preaching brought upon me ) until he had done , before I spake a word . And when I had cleared my Conscience in a short Testimony to the Meeting , I sate down peaceably again , and did not enter into any Debate , or Strife with those unruly People of the Separation , who , by railing at me , on his behalf , made that Disturbance that was ; and whose abusive rudeness towards me , made some cry out on them ; Shame , Shame . And surely if G. K. thinks ( as he seems here to do ) that neither I , nor any other should call it a Disturbance in him to bear a publick Testimony against a Man , that ought not ( he says ) to be owned to be a Minister of Christ : He ought not to call it a disturbance in me , to bear a publick Testimony against that Man , that I then testified against , who ought not to be owned to be a Minister of Christ , not only because he hat divided himself from the Church of Christ , by going into , and keeping up an open Separation ; but for other matters also , relating to Conversation , which that Man well knows , I know of him , and have both privately and publickly reproved him for some of them . But as for G. K.'s saying , that my speaking against that Person , gave offence to Hundreds , it is not to be regarded ; it being his way , and words of course with him , when he has a mind to magnify his matter by Numbers , to use the word Hundreds at a venture . So he does here , thrice in one page , — gave great Offence to Hundreds ; — whose Ministry was well owned by Hundreds ; — Hundreds hear Witness , &c. now that these are but words of course with him , and used only to deceive , may be seen in this last Instance , of his Hundreds of witnesses , by taking notice what he says they bear witness too , viz that my Ministry ( says he ) is both refreshing and edifying to them , and is burdensom to none , but to the Ignorant and unfaithful , &c. If his Hundreds of witnesses could have witnessed truly , that his Ministry is refreshing and edifying to them : Yet if they will take upon them to witness , that it is burdensome to none , but the Ignorant Unfaithful and prejudiced , it is an Hundred to one , if one in an hundred believe them . But by this hint , it may be seen what little weight there is in his talk of Hundreds , both in this and his other Books . He complains of me , for accusing his innocent true words , as savouring of a Boasting Spirit , because ( says he ) I humbly and modestly did mention my Thirty Years Labour in the work of the Ministry , and God having blest my Labours with great Success , in being an Instrument to the bringing many into the blessed Unity , &c. And he appeals to all that have a true savour , whether these words savour of a boasting Spirit , he ( as he says ) only using them by way of argument , to perswade some that had a wrong jealousy of him , that he intends no breach among faithful Friends . His modesty and humility is pretty well seen and known by this time . And had not this boasting Vanity been deeply rooted in his Nature , the gentle Touch I gave him in my former Epistle p. 70. upon this passage now recited , of his setting forth his Thirty Years Labour in the work of the Ministry , and his Great Success therein , &c. might have taught him to think more modestly and humbly of himself . But he was so far from taking warning by that , that he begins his Epistle , which he writ since , much after the same manner , thus . Notwithstanding that I find some ( of whom with respect both to my former Labour of love and Service in the Truth , towards them , and to my present Service in the Truth , &c. I might have expected better things ) so deeply prejudiced , &c. What else doth this bespeak , but a fond Conceit of his own Doings ? Many , I believe , who have deserved more , have less sought Commendation for their Services . And had he been in the true Humility , and in that Charity , which va●…nteth not it self , and is not puffed up , 1. Cor. 13. 4. he would have followed the Apostle's Counsel , not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think , Rom. 12. 13. But if it might have becomed him at any time , to have spoken so highly of his own Services : Yet his doing it now , is as unseasonable , as if a Cow , that had given a good soop of Milk , should boast of the goodness or quantity thereof , after she had spilt it , by kicking down the Pail . I have no inclination to render his former Services Cheap ; which I think he hath but too much done himself ( though he sees it not ) by coupling them with his present Doings . And I give but a Touch on this , not doubting , Friends , that ye will observe in those Expressions of his , A Vein of Spiritual Pride ; which he in vain endeavours to cover , by pretending he used them by way of Argument , to perswade some ; that he intended no breach among Faithful Friends . Which yet , could be but a weak Argument , to them that know and consider , that Others before him ( some of whom had laboured long in the Work of the Ministry , and perhaps as successfully as he ) have turned aside , as well as he , and made Breaches among Friends ; of which he himself seemed formerly sensible . Thus , Friends , I have gone through his Fifty Charges , And said more to them , than either they or he deserved of me . Which I have done for Truth 's sake , and yours , more than for my own . For I dare trust to the Goodness of the Cause I have undertaken , and the Innocency of my Intention , in undertaking it ; an Evidence of which I have no doubt to find in the Heart of Faithful Friends . But my Desire and Care is , so plainly and nakedly to lay open before you , what Spirit he is of , and is acted by , and the mischievous Design thereof , that none may be longer deceived by him ; nor any , by seeming to countenance him , may strengthen and harden him in his Opposition to Truth , to their hurt and his Ruin. I confess I cannot treat him as a Friend , because I find him an Enemy to Truth . Yet none could be more glad than I , to see him return to a right mind . For then he would see himself to be , what you and I see him to be ; and would be more forward to condemn himself , than to quarrel with others . But I must needs say , I have little hopes to see so good an effect wrought on him ; because I cannot find sincerity in him . I gave many Instances in my former Epistle of his Insincerity and double Dealing . Since which he hath sent forth , First , That Sheet single by it self , which he calls a Loving Epistle , but without any spark or appearance of Love in it . He directs it to all the Moderate , Judicious , and Impartial among the People called Quakers , intimating thereby , that ( in his Opinion ) the Quakers , as a Body , or People , are not Moderate , Judicious , or Impartial . I dare say , should any one of those , that have appeared most favourable to him , but thwart him in his way , or reprove him for his Unruliness and disorderly Doings , he shall forthwith reject such an One , and rase him out of his Roll of Moderate , Judicious , and Impartial Ones . And I am perswaded , should all Friends deal so with him ( which they have just cause to do ) he would reject them all , and not own one Moderate , Judicious , or Impartial among us . Do ye not see , Friends , how he Slights , Rejects , and casts off , not only Persons , but Meetings , at his pleasure , if they answer not his mind ? The Second Day 's Morning Meeting , consisting mostly ( as ye know ) of Ministring Friends , he Derives and Scoffs , and Represents it as mannaged by Parties . The Yearly Meeting he represented in his former Paper , ( called The Causeless Ground , &c. ) as divided : For which I tax'd him in my last . In his Epistolary Sheet , he doth not vouchsafe to acknowledge it for a Yearly Meeting ; but , when he speaks of it , says , That which he called the Yearly Meeting , p. 4. so p. 5. and so p. 7. Nay , he there suggests , as if that Paper , called A true Account of the Proceedings of the Yearly Meeting , was not given forth by the Yearly Meeting : For speaking of it , he says , p. 4. The Paper said to be given out by the Yearly Meeting ; though after he had heard it Read , it was deliver'd to him , in the Yearly Meeting , in the Name , and as the Act of the Yearly Meeting . But now in his last Book , which he calls A seasonable Information , &c. He says downright , p. 28. As for that , called The Yearly Meetings Iudgment , I own it not to be such . And of the Meeting its self , he says , It cannot be owned to be the Yearly Meeting , nor any Meeting duly and regularly constitute , &c. p. 27. So that , Friends , the nearer ye look upon this Man , and the more exactly ye weigh and consider his Words and Actions , the more plainly ye will see his Shifting , Shuffling and Double-Dealing , and that he is departed from the Simplicity of Truth ; yet uses the Terms of Truth to beguile the Simple by . For ye see , he calls his Sheet A Loving Epistle Addresses it to you , under the kind Compellation of Dear Friends and Brethren ; and concludes , that he remains in true Love your Friend in the Truth : As if , Who but he to Friends ! And who but Friends to him ! Whereas , upon all occasions that have hitherto Offered since his last Arrival in England , ( so far at least as hath come to my notice ) when Friends have had to do with him , he regards neither Friend , nor Friends , nor Meetings of Friends , if they do not answer his humour . And Friends , it is observable , and worth your taking notice of , that in the Idle Challenge he made ( in the Postscript to his Epistle ) to me , and those Friends that approve my Book , for a publick Meeting between him and us , he provides by a particular Caution , that all Sober and Moderate Persons , whether Friends , or Friendly People , may have freedom to be present . What else doth this bespeak , but that he hath more Confidence in the Populace , than in Friends ? In those that are not , of us , Than in those that are ? Do ye not see , Friends , even by this , Where his Life lies ? Doth it not appear that he is departed from the Communion of the Saints in Light , and from the Fellowship of the Faithful , whose Unity is with the Father , and with the Son , in the Eternal Spirit ? And though he directs his Epistle to the Moderate , Judicious , and Impartial among the People called Quakers : Yet it is the Moderate Persons ( as he calls them ) that are not Quakers , whom he would have present , to make his Appeal to , against the Quakers , could he but get a Stage to wrangle on . To procure which , he urges that the Scripture says , Of making many Books there is no end . But how unseasonably is this urged by him now , when he should defend his Books , who hath tumbled out so many Scandalous Books to the dishonour of the Truth , and Reproach of Friends , as he has done , without any regard to that Scripture ? He urges also the Example of the Barbican Meeting , thereby setting , not me only , but the Second Days Morning Meeting , and all Friends that approve and promote my Book , in the place of those envious Baptists , that then made War against Truth and Friends . By this , Friends , ye may see to what a degree he is degenerated , and whither his Envy has run him . But as there is no parallel between that Case and this , ( those Baptists having Blasphemed the Principle we prosess , traduced the whole Body of Friends , and in a Mock-Meeting condemned su unheard ) so their yeilding to such a Meeting at Friends demand , will neither excuse him for demanding the like , nor would have blamed Friends had it been denied . But since by his publishing his Fifty Charges against me , with such proofless Proofs as he was able to make thereof , he has put the Cause into another way of Tryal , and given every Reader opportunity to judge , both of his Charges and Proofs ; I think not my self obliged to take any farther notice of his daring Challenge , than to tell him , that , had he not himself superseeded it by Printing , I should have expected some assurance of his being reclaimed from that abusive rudeness , wherewith he usually treats those he contends with , before I should have given him such an Opportunity to gratifie the Rabble ; ( who in such Assemblies , and on such Occasions , commonly make the greater part : ) And to disgrace his Profession he yet makes of Truth , by so publick a discovery of his ungoverned Passions ; the remembrance of which , from the Yearly Meeting , makes me desire never to see the like again . But Friends , I desire that both you and I may be kept in the weighty Life , and may dwell in a sensible feeling thereof continually , and grow up therein , from day to day , that we may not only be thereby enabled to savour , discern , and distinguish Right from Wrong , Good from Evil , that which is of God , from that which is of the Enemy , in his most specious appearances ; but so to cleave to the one , and reject the other , that nothing that is of the Evil one , and which tends to make Rents , Di isions , and Breaches among Brethren , or draw from the Holy Fellowship of the Gospel of Peace , and throw publick Scandals upon our Religious Profession , may receive any Strength , Incouragement , or Countenance from any that profess the Truth : But that we may all watch over our selves , and over one another for good , in that which is of God. To whose Impartial Witness in every one of your Hearts , I recommend the foregoing Lines ; and in that Love that desires , and seeks the good of the whole Body , and of every particular Member thereof ; I remain The 22th , of the 9th . Month , 1694. Your Friend and Brother , T. E. POSTSCRIPT . HAD George Keith been a Man of any Worthiness of Mind , or had the Cause he mannages been defensible , he would not ( though an Adversary ) have suffered Iohn Raunce to have clapt on his abusive Piece at the End of his Book , thereby to throw Dirt at his Opponent . And had not Iohn Raunce been an unmanly Adversary , he would have scorn'd to have crept in at the Tayl of another's Books , to repeat an old Slander , no way relating to the Subject of that Book ; when another Book of mine , called A tair Examination of a foul Paper , relating chiefly fo himself , hat●…●…ain this Twelve Month on his head , unanswered . But George Keith's mean mind could not , it seems , withstand the slight Temptation of Iohn Raunce's Offer , to take off an Hundred of his Books : ( Besides , that he was glad of any help to run down his Opponent , if he could , with Slanders , which he found he could not do with Arguments . ) And Iohn Raunce seem'd no less glad of the Opportunity , to creep behind such a Mickle Man , as G. K. is taken to be , and from the Backside of his Book , to let fly his dirt at me ; wherein he has sufficiently shew'd his Envy , and the baseness of his mind . In that former Book , called , A fair Examination of a foul Paper , I not only laid open Iohn Raunce's Notorious Folly , but plainly convicted him , by several Instances , of downright Falshod and Lying ; which it did more concern him to have cleared himself of , than to renew ( as he has done ) his former slander upon me , about my Father's Burial . But clear himself he could not ; therefore he undertook it not : Slander me he could ; and therefore did . He had spread a Report above a Year ago , That I did not allow my Father a Shrowd , but that he was wrapt in an Old Moth-eaten Blanket . When I heard this ( and with what Joy , and Glorying , he published it ) I took notice of it , in a Postscript to that Book ( which was then just ready for the Press ) and I therein disproved his False Report . But because I said , I hear Iohn Raunce hath hatched another false Story against me , he ( waving what I had there said to clear my self of it ) catches hold of the Word [ Hatched ] and , under pretence of clearing himself ▪ not from having reported and spread , but ) from having hatched that : Story , he takes theadvantage of publishing it again , at the end of G. K's Book , that wheresoever that Book shall go , he might defame me . The Account he hath now given of it , is , That my Father had no other Shrowd but somewhat of an Old Moth-eaten Blanket ; and it was so little and so short , that it would scare cover his Body . That he had no Cap on his Head , nor any Muffler for his Iaws : And that The Shrowd was so sorry a Thing , that the Man , he pretends to have had his Relation from , said , He would not have given 6 d. for it . This Account he pretends to have had from a Man , who , he says , helped to lay my Father into his Coffin , and saw him Nailed up in the Coffin . But he Names not the Man , nor where he lives , that he might be spoken with about it : Which shews he had no mind his pretended Author should be found out , and spoken with , lest his own Falshood should be found out also . However , upon Iohn Raunce's Publishing this Account , I desired two Friends of Aylesbury , viz. Thomas Olliffe , and Iames Smith , to go to Holton ( the Town where my Father died ) and inform themselves as fully as they could , concerning this matter . I chose rather to imploy others in this Work , than to go my self , that whatsoever Account should be given thereof , it might be free from all suspicion . Accordingly those two Friends went to the Place , and though they could not find out any such Man as Iohn Raunce speaks of ( not having his Name to inquire by : ) Yet they spake with the Man in whose House my Father died , and with the two Women that laid out the Body , from whom , and under whose hands , they received the following Certificates . Holton , this Second of December , 1694. WHereas we are informed that a Report is spread abroad , that Thomas Ellwood's Father was Buried in an Old Moth-eaten Blanket not worth 6 d. We whose Names are under-written , who are the Parties that did lay him out , do hereby Certifie , that we did put on the Body a New Shrowd , with a Cap and Muffler , and all things that are usual for Burial . And that there was no piece of Old Blanket Buried with him , as hath been reported . And the truth of this we shall be ready to declare to any sober Person that shall inquire of us . The mark of Mary Weston . The mark of Mary Stoakes . And for a further Evidence of the Truth of this , I Daniel Stoakes do declare ; that I bought the Shrowd , of Thomas Darvall , of Wendover , by the order of Thomas Ellwood , who paid me for that , and all other Charges for his Father , both in the time of his Sickness , and for his Burial . And I also saw the Corps wrapt in the Shrowd , with the Cap and Muffler , and Face Cloth on ; and I did also help bring him down Stairs , and did help carry him to the Grave . And Thomas Ellwood did , over and above all my Charge , give me Ten Shillings , to distribute to the Poor of the Parish , which accordingly I did . Witness my hand . Witnesses hereunto , Thomas Olliffe . Iames Smith . The mark of Daniel Stoakes . Holton December the 10th . 1694. Whereas it hath been reported that Thomas Ellwood's Father was Buried in an Old Moth-eaten Blanket , not worth 6 d. This is to satisfie all Persons whom it may concern , that I Francis Weeden ( who am the Man that made the Coffin , and Nailed it up ) saw no such thing as a Moth-eaten Blanket : And to the best of my memory ( it being , as I suppose , 12 Years ago ) he was decently Buried in a Shrowd . And I do believe that no one can truly report otherwise . Witness my Hand , Francis Weeden . These Certificates clear me fully from Iohn Raunce's False Report , which he hath spread abroad , to the shame of his Slanderous Tongue : Let him , if he can , clear himself as fairly from having been the Hatcher of it . And now he may take the Moth-eaten Blanket to himself ( if he please ) and see if with that , or any thing else , he can make a Shrowd large enough to cover the Infamy of his own D — . If ( according to the saying ) a word to the Wise is enough ; I presume , to a Cunning-Man , a Letter of a Word may be enough : And therefore shall forbear to say more on that Subject , till further Occasion be given . T. E. The End. ERRATA . P. 16. l. 28. r. the fifty , p. 17. l. 16. for are , r. use . p. 25. l. 19. for where , r. whose . p. 43 l. 8. for would , r. could . p. 46. l. 15. r. did it . p. 49. l. 25. for have , r. heard . p. 50. l. 27. r. we intend . p. 54. l. 9. for writing , r. reciting . p. 57. l. 12. after unbelievers . r. &c. p. 58. l. 6. for here , r. hence . p 62. l. last , dele that . p. 64. l. 27. after part , r. in . p. 69. l. 16. r. Papists . l. 21. r. into th●… . p. 77. l. 12. for there , r. either . p. 88. l. 15. r. declare . p. 89. l. 26. for instance r. insconse . p. 91. l. 11. r. work p. 94. l. 13. r. relating 10. l. 97. l. 21. r. God and Christ. p 115. l. 9. for hat ; r. hath .