The antiquity of the royal line of Scotland farther cleared and defended, against the exceptions lately offer'd by Dr. Stillingfleet, in his vindication of the Bishop of St. Asaph by Sir George Mackenzie ... Mackenzie, George, Sir, 1636-1691. 1686 Approx. 262 KB of XML-encoded text transcribed from 122 1-bit group-IV TIFF page images. Text Creation Partnership, Ann Arbor, MI ; Oxford (UK) : 2004-08 (EEBO-TCP Phase 1). A50442 Wing M150 ESTC R11636 13118938 ocm 13118938 97803 This keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the Early English Books Online Text Creation Partnership. This Phase I text is available for reuse, according to the terms of Creative Commons 0 1.0 Universal . The text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. Early English books online. (EEBO-TCP ; phase 1, no. A50442) Transcribed from: (Early English Books Online ; image set 97803) Images scanned from microfilm: (Early English books, 1641-1700 ; 427:2) The antiquity of the royal line of Scotland farther cleared and defended, against the exceptions lately offer'd by Dr. Stillingfleet, in his vindication of the Bishop of St. Asaph by Sir George Mackenzie ... Mackenzie, George, Sir, 1636-1691. [12], 212, [8] p. : folded geneal. table Printed for Joseph Hindmarsh ..., London : 1686. "Licensed, Nov. 2, 1685. Ro. L'Estrange" Advertisements: p. [6]-[8] at end. Reproduction of original in Library of Congress. Marginal notes. Imperfect: geneal. table lacking on film. Created by converting TCP files to TEI P5 using tcp2tei.xsl, TEI @ Oxford. Re-processed by University of Nebraska-Lincoln and Northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. 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In general, first editions of a works in English were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably Latin and Welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. Image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. Quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in Oxford and Michigan. 5% (or 5 pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet QA standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. After proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of 100 instances per text. Any remaining illegibles were encoded as s. Understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of TCP data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. Users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a TCP editor. The texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level 4 of the TEI in Libraries guidelines. Copies of the texts have been issued variously as SGML (TCP schema; ASCII text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable XML (TCP schema; characters represented either as UTF-8 Unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless XML (TEI P5, characters represented either as UTF-8 Unicode or TEI g elements). Keying and markup guidelines are available at the Text Creation Partnership web site . eng Stillingfleet, Edward, 1635-1699. -- Origines britannicæ. O'Flaherty, Roderic, 1629-1718. -- Ogygia. Scotland -- History -- To 1603. Scotland -- Kings and rulers. 2004-03 TCP Assigned for keying and markup 2004-04 Apex CoVantage Keyed and coded from ProQuest page images 2004-06 Judith Siefring Sampled and proofread 2004-06 Judith Siefring Text and markup reviewed and edited 2004-07 pfs Batch review (QC) and XML conversion THE ANTIQUITY OF THE Royal Line OF SCOTLAND Farther Cleared and Defended , Against the Exceptions lately offer'd by Dr. STILLINGFLEET , In his Vindication of the Bishop of St. ASAPH . By Sir George Mackenzie , His Majesty's Advocate for the Kingdom of SCOTLAND . LICENSED , Nov. 2. 1685. Ro. L'Estrange . LONDON , Printed for Ioseph Hindmarsh , at the Golden-Ball against the Royal Exchange . 1686. TO THE KING . SIR , IT is not my practice to plead any thing for your Majesty with zeal , untill I find it a matter of some importance ; and my self likewise convinced that I cannot answer my own Arguments : By this rule , when I first saw the Bishop of St. Asaph's Book , I took some pains to persuade my self , that it contain'd nothing prejudicial to that right of precedency , which is due to your Royal Race , as the most Ancient Monarchy which we know . But finding that there was no way to secure this precedency to the Royal Family , against those consequences which necessarily arose from his Positions ; I thought it my duty , at that time , to answer his Lordship's Book , as I do now Dr. Stillingfleet's : especially , since they , in overturning the ancient settlement of the Royal Line in Scotland , destroy one of the great Foundations , whereby your Majesty's Grandfather , your Father , and your Last Parliament , have farther engag'd , and encourag'd the Loyalty of this your . Ancient Kingdom : Wherefore , Sir , these Reverend Divines will now , I hope , hold me excus'd , in regard that I pleaded first for them , with my self , before I pleaded against them , for your Majesty : And if I could have found any man to have satisfied me , as to the inconveniences arising to the Crown in these Points , I had never printed that Book in defence of the Royal Family , and of my Native Country . But , now humbly to satisfy your Majesty as to the dangerousness of these Positions ( even supposing the Authours innocent of any ill design , as I am apt to think they are ) and to convince them , how impartial I am upon any National Account ; I beg leave to mind your Sacred Majesty , that some of our Own Historians having erred with as little ill design as they , touching the Succession of King Robert the Second ; An Argument was drawn from it , in favour of Bastards , and was much boasted of by the Enemies of the true Royal Line , and thereupon , I did , to the satisfaction of all indifferent men , refute our own Historians in that Point , as , I hope , I do now these Gentlemen in the Points controverted . Scarce any thing , Sir , can be thought inconsiderable , wherein a Crown is concern'd ; or any consequence so remote , but should be adverted to , in a Season when a long Rebellion has so far debaucht the Inclinations of too many of your Majesty's Subjects : But certainly , nothing can be thought inconsiderable , which Kings and Parliaments have judg'd so usefull for establishing the precedence of the Sovereign , and for confirming the Affection and Loyalty of the Subject . And the Doctor 's way of telling us , ( in place of all other defence ) that the Irish carry up the Royal Line within six degrees of Japhet , and so we shorten it , is not serious enough in a Subject we ought to treat of with veneration ; since the Doctor , in the same Book , does but make himself merry with Offlahertie , the Assertor of this pretended Antiquity . Sir , the agreement of Men of different Professions , almost at the same time , against the Royal Line , is very remarkable ; some endeavouring by their Swords to cut it short at that end which lay next to them ; Whilst others , by their Pens , have undertaken what derogates from its glory , by lopping off its remoter end ; which I 'm sure lay far out of their way : And I wish , that as your Majesty has most successfully defeated the one , by your Victorious Arms ; so I may be so happy , in your prudent Reign , as to contribute somewhat to disappoint the other , by what I have said in vindication of its Antiquity . Sir , The dutifull inclination I have to serve your Majesty , is , I confess , much heightned , by the Royal Obligations you have been pleased to lay upon our Nation ; not onely in your gratious protection of it , but in the glory you have added to that Royal Family , under which we have been so long happy . Your Majesty owes your success ( next to that mercifull and miraculous providence which still attends your Sacred Person and Family to your own wise Conduct , and to the great Iustice of your Cause ; and not to your Councils or Servants , though it is your Majesty's goodness to be as kind to them as if you did . And therefore , Sir , I am so far from valuing my self , upon any success I may , or can pretend to have , in pleading for your Majesty , either in Print , or at the Bar ; that I shall still ascribe whatever advantages I may gain that way , to the Iustice of your Majesty's Cause , without arrogating any part of it to my own Skill or Eloquence . And now your Majesty having by your own Royal Influence , and the Prudence of your proper Conduct , overturn'd in so short a time all the Designs of a Rebellion , so deeply rooted ; And by your gentleness and clemency overcome the obstinacy of your most inveterate Enemies , which is by far the more wonderfull Victory , thereby contracting into one year the glories of a long Reign : I can never have the vanity to imagine , your Majesty should yet any way need the mean assistence of , Sir , Your Majesty's most Dutifull Loyal and Obedient Subject and Servant , George Mackenzie . THE CONTENTS . CHAP. I. THE King's Advocat in duty bound to defend the Antiquity of the Royal Line . This debate , as it was unnecessarily started , so it 's unwarrantably continued . The Authour's Answers to Buchanan's Jus Regni clear'd , and defended . CHAP. II. That the Scots were placed here before the Tear 503. CHAP. III. What the Bishop of St. Asaph and Dr. Stillingfleet say against our Histories , from Fergus the First , examined . CHAP. IV. Our Authours vindicated in the accounts they give of the Genealogy of our Kings . CHAP. V. The Irish Genealogy of our Kings compared with the Accounts given by the Chronicle of Melross , and both compared with the Genealogies contained in our Histories ; with a full proof , that our Historians are to be preferred to the Irish Annals as to this point : Ogygia examin'd . The Antiquity of the Royal Line of Scotland farther cleared and defended , against the Exceptions lately offered by Dr. Stillingfleet , in his Vindication of the Bishop of St. Asaph . CHAP. I. KING Iames , having in his Basilicon Doron , p. 201. founded his Royal Prerogative upon King Fergus's having made himself King and Lord , as well of the whole Lands , as of the Inhabitants of Scotland ; and King Charles the First , having in a Letter to his Parliament , An. 1641. founded that kindness , which he expected from the Scots , upon this ; that they and their Predecessours were Sworn to maintain that Race of their Kings which he now represented , after 108 Descents : I leave it to all indifferent men , if I , as King's Advocate , was not in duty oblig'd to answer a Book written by the Reverend and Learned Bishop of St. Asaph , to prove that King Fergus , and 44 posteriour Kings were merely fabulous and idle inventions , since that assertion did not onely give the lye flatly to two of our most just and learned Kings , but overturned the foundations on which they had built the duty and kindness of their Subjects : And since precedency is one of the chief glories of the Crown , and that for this , not onely Kings , but Subjects fight and debate ; how could I suffer this right and privilege of our Crown to be stoln from it by this Assertion ; which did expresly subtract about 830 years from their antiquity ; and , in consequence , lessen'd it by other 500 ? for we can produce no evidences for these also , which may not be quarrel'd , if our Adversaries be allow'd to reject what is here controverted ; consequentially to which , Ubbo Emmius , magnified by the Doctor , has brought down their Antiquity to Kenneth the Third : and since nothing can be answered to these grounds , which I may conclude , because Dr. Stillingfleet has answered nothing to them , nor to the many reasons whereby I prov'd that Episcopacy was no otherways concerned in this debate , than in as far as it was made a pretext for the more secure opposing our Monarchy : I admire how Dr. Stillingfleet could adventure to continue the debate , especially after a whole Parliament of zealous Episcopal members , ( and wherein there did sit 14 Bishops ) had unanimously , after many of them had read , and all had heard of the Bishop's Book , thought of new again , this Antiquity a solid and necessary Basis for their Loyalty . All that the Doctor answers , is , That our Kings are still ancient by the Irish Race , and so were Kings in another place : But he should have consider'd , that the Conquest of an ancient Kingdom brings not to the Conquerour the antiquity of those he conquers ; and our Kings succeed onely to the Irish by the Scotish Kings now controverted ; and if he rejects ours for want of sufficient proofs , he must by a stronger consequence reject the proofs ▪ that can be produced for them , and he does so indeed with much scorn and gayety ; nor can he prove our Kings to be descended from Fergus the Second , if he allow not my proofs for Fergus the First ; nay , which is more , I have proved the descent of Fergus the Second , from the Irish , in their way , to be impossible , and all the Authours for this opinion to have contradicted one another : so that these two Loyal Divines toil much to prove their King to be , not onely not the most ancient , but one of the last Kings in Christendom ; and are angry at me , though the King's Advocate , for daring to say , that this was a king of lese Majesty : by which I meant onely then , a lessening and wronging of the Majesty of our common Kings , though I qualified this Rhetorical expression , by adding , that I was sure the learned Bishop of St. Asaph had written this with a design rather to gratifie his Order , and Countrey , than Industriously to injure our Kings or us ; and thus , in that matter , I have been gentler than my employment could well allow , or my present treatment does require . The Doctor being resolv'd to found every thing upon his own authority , knowing of little other help , tells us , That such as are to write in matters of Antiquity , should be extraordinarily vers'd in the best Authours , and should have a deep judgment , able to compare them together ; and this being the Preface of his own Origines Britannicae , may be , I am afraid , so constru'd , as if he would have us take his own word for his being a most learned and judicious Antiquary and Critick , for else he would not have undertaken this sublime and hard task ; as also he tells us by the same art , that it was not every Advocate us'd to plead eloquently at the Bar , and who took citations at second-hand , who could manage so weighty matters ; making it thus great Insolency in me to grapple with him in our own History , which , a Scotchman , and in the Latin Authours , which a Civilian should understand best of all others ; for this debate requires little other learning beside these , and the reading of some few passages in others , which I have read in the Authours themselves with as great attention as the Doctor , without taking any of my Citations at second-hand , or using them without considering first their full import , and remotest consequences , as several learned men here can prove , and will better and more convincingly appear from this debate it self ; in which , beside the main positions , I hope to prove that either the Doctor has not understood so well , or at least has not used them so ingenuously as I have done . To reflect somewhat on me , and much on our Historians , without contributing any thing else to the present debate , save what may arise from the weakning our credibility , the Doctor asserts that I should have in my answer to Buchanan's Ius Regni , deny'd that any respect was due to arguments brought from our Histories , to prove his Republican Principles , and I should have decry'd our Histories as fabulous , and invented merely to sustain those Principles . To which my Answer is , that I should be glad to find Dr. Stillingfleet as firm a friend to the power and interest of Kings , as I have been , though I think he gives no great evidence of it , in urging unnecessarily all Buchanan's popular arguments , with the same exactness that those do who wish them to prevail ; but none can-lessen the esteem of the Book here in question , without reflecting upon the famous University of Oxford , whose testimony I have subjoyn'd to this , and which I think the next to that of a good Conscience . But to the point : I must remember our Readers , that Buchanan having urged against the absolute power of our Kings , that they were limited by a contract betwixt King Fergus and the People ; my Answers were , that first this Contract was deny'd , and a History may be true , though some points be foisted in upon design , else few Histories are true ; and this is Dr. Heylin's Doctrine as well as mine . ( 2. ) That Fordon , whom they call our first Historian , now extant , did expresly say , that Fergus constituit se regem ; and this is clear also by the Book of Pasley , and I have clear'd that it could not be otherways ; and if Boethius , has onely copied Fordon , and Buchanan , Boethius ( as our adversaries contend ) they must be all regulated by Fordon's Loyalty . ( 3. ) That if Boethius be urg'd against us ; we must consider all he says , and if so , we will find that he derives the Monarchy from Gathelus , and he was King without contract , before Fergus , whose reign I assert not there , though I use it justly against such as object that Tradition as Argumentum ad hominem . ( 4. ) These limitations being found inconsistent with the safety of King and People ( as indeed all limitations are ) they were repeal'd by express Laws in the Reign of King Kenneth the Third , and by many and clear posteriour Statutes , founded upon sad ▪ experience : And if such Limitations could be introduc'd , they could be abrogated , by express consent , and so our Kings are now freed from them . ( 5. ) I clear that these expressions crept into our Histories by the humour which most Churchmen were in at that time , of having Kings depend on the Church , and so not absolute ; in which our Historians are less guilty than those of other Nations , whom in friendship I will not now name . And as to the instance brought from our Histories , to prove that the People depos'd Kings ; That concluded onely that the People were Rebels , but not that our Kings were Limited ; but to have deny'd our Histories , in as far as they prov'd this , it concerned me to have denyed them till Kenneth the Third's time , which had been very ridiculous , according to the Bishop of St. Asaph's own opinion , and had justly defamed my Book amongst my own Countreymen . And how should we acknowledge this to be a peculiar guilt in our Historians , except we deny the truth of all English Histories since William the Conquerour's time : Because they mention Limitations extorted from their Kings ; murthers committed upon many of them ; and the right of Election to be stated in the people , as I have prov'd in a Letter to Dr. Stillingfleet , unfit to be exposed to publick view for the same Reasons , that I think the Doctor should have supprest that undutifull dis-respectfull part of his debate , against our Historians who deserve much less to be taxt than his own Friends , for their ill founded conceptions of the rights of Monarchs in those days ; and to reform which , I have been somewhat more instrumental than the Doctor . But such injurious and national Excursions as this , seem to prove to Conviction , more partiality than consideration in the Doctor , though otherways an honest and learned man in cold bloud . But to shew that he is not a dis-interessed Critick , I must observe , that he ingenuously confesses that he ow'd so much service to so worthy and excellent a Friend as the Bishop of St. Asaph ; for though he adds , that if my Arguments would hold good , they would also overthrow several things in his late Book , yet this is but a mere Pretext , for nothing in my Book relates any way to any part of that Subject which he treats upon , except in the second and fifth Chapters wherein he takes also my Book expressly to task in the same Points . And therefore I conclude that if he , though a Church-man , thought himself concerned in honour to own his Friend , albeit an Aggressour ; I as a King's Advocate may be more justly allow'd to own our Kings when attacked unjustly , and unnecessarily , by their own Subjects , and Beneficiaries ; And though it may be instanced , that the antiquity of the Royal-line has been controverted in other Nations , yet it cannot be instanced that this has been done by Subjects , after their Kings and Parliaments have seriously founded the Loyalty of the Nation upon that antiquity , and the Kings have asserted that antiquity under their own hands , upon so solemn occasions , which is our case , and where the antiquity it self is not absolutely fabulous ; but on the contrary , is in it self so reasonable , and is warranted by the Testimonies of contemporary Historians , and allowed by the most judicious Criticks . CHAP. II. That the Scots were placed here before the Year 503. NOW without either vanity or levity , or any distracting digressions , I must put the Reader in mind that in my Book I did onely undertake to prove against the Bishop of St. Asaph , That the Scots did settle in Britain before the Year 503. And after I had prov'd this sufficiently , by the clear and positive Testimonies which I adduced , and had made it appear by some of the same Testimonies , that we settled here before Iulius Caesar's time ; and particularly that Reuda , one of our Kings , was expressly acknowledged by Beda , one of the Authours I cite ; I proceeded to prove that our Historians are to be believed as to King Fergus , there being onely a hundred and thirty years betwixt these two Kings . As to which , our Historians being many , and men of Reputation , they ought to be believed , they having narrated nothing that is improbable , and having declared that they were sufficiently warranted so to write , by the Records delivered to them by Authority out of our ancient Monasteries then extant ; and that Oral Tradition , universally received of a whole Nation , is a great Fortification of so short a step as a hundred and thirty years . And in the last part of my Book , I clear against Archbishop Usher , and the Bishop of St. Asaph , That this Countrey was called Scotland , and We Scots , before the Year 1000 , a position they were driven to maintain in defence of their former Paradox . Dr. Stillingfleet , without taking notice of these Points which I treated separately in the method now mentioned , would more cunningly than ingenuously , make his Reader believe that I have undertaken by every Citation and Reason to prove the truth of all the parts of our History from Fergus downward : and therefore when I adduce a Citation for proving that we were settled here before the Year 503 ; or that this Countrey was called Scotland before the Year 1000 : He asks , Where is there mention in these Citations , of Fergus ? And takes no care to consider my Citations , with relation to the particular Points for which they are produced , as in my * Citation of Scaliger , concerning the Scotobrigantes , and in my † Citation of Claudian , &c. To return then to my first Method , for the Readers fuller conviction , I must put him in mind that I did prove the first of these positions , viz. That we were setled in Scotland before the Year 503. ( 1. ) By the Authority of the British Historians within the Isle , ( 2. ) By the Roman Historians , who could not but know us well , because that Nation fought long with us , ( 3. ) By Ecclesiastick Writers and Historians , who prove that the Scots were acknowledged to have been a Christian Nation here before that time , and therefore behov'd to have been setled here , ( 4. ) I fortifie these Citations by most clear Reasons , ( 5. ) Because the import of some of these Authorities is controverted , I appeal to the best Historians and Criticks , as the most competent Judges betwixt the reverend Prelate and my self ; and these I hope will be found to have asserted the truth of this my Position , and the justness of my Citations . The first Citations I used were from Gildas and Beda , the most ancient and esteemed of all the English Writers : And I did begin with Beda , because he transcribes and explains Gildas ; and I shall repeat the Argument as I stated it in my first Book . The venerable Beda , though a Saxon himself , and so an Enemy to us , having written an exact Chronology according to the periods of time , does in his first chap. de priscis Incolis , tell us , that God was praised in five Languages in this Isle ; that of the English , Britons , Scots , Picts and Latines ; and then proceeds to tell that the Britons were the first Possessours , and possest the South parts ; After which , came the Picts to the Northern parts , and the Scots under Reuda thereafter made a third Nation in that part belonging to the Picts , getting the Western part of Scotland , North from the Picts called Dumbriton or Alcluith , and he inculcates their fixing here by three several , but concurring Expressions . 1. Progressi ex Hiberniâ , they left Ireland . 2. Sedes vindicârunt in Britanniâ , they setled in Britain . 3. In Britanniâ , Britonibus & Pictis gentem tertiam addiderunt ; they added a third Nation to the Britons and Picts , and that this was very ancient , is clear ; for he fixes them in Britain in that Chapter , wherein he treats de priscis Incolis : and having thus setled the Scots and Picts , in his first Chapter with the Britons , he proceeds in the second Chapter , to setle the fourth Nation , viz , the Latines or Romans , beginning with these words : But this Britain was unknown , and not entred upon by the Romans , till Julius Caesar's time . And having described the Wars betwixt these three Nations and the Roman Emperours , in a due Gradation marking every period of time , through the Reign of their consecutive Emperours : and how at last the Romans had abandoned the Island , and Aetius the Roman Consul had refused the Petition of the miserable Britons , so often defeated by the Scots and Picts : He in the fourteenth Chapter relates , how the Britons upon deep Consultation brought in the Saxons , and from thence continues the Saxon History . The second Argument I brought from Beda , was from the 5th . cap. l. 1. Eccl. Hist. where he says , that Severus built a Wall to defend against the other unconquer'd Nations , and in the 12. cap. he tells that Britain was vexed by the Scots and Picts ; two Over-Sea or Transmarine Nations : And thereafter , as if he had been afraid , that this word Transmarine might have been mistaken , he adds , That they were not called Transmarine , because they lived and were setled out of Britain , but because they were separated from that part of Britain by the two Seas which did almost meet . And in this he agrees exactly with Tacitus , who in the life of Agricola says , that there being a Wall built betwixt these two Seas , the Roman Enemies were closed up as in an Isle . To these Arguments the learned Doctor answers first that Beda , in the beginning of his History , doth set down the five Nations that inhabited Britain , and so if the Scots and Picts be ancient , the Romans and Saxons must be ancient Inhabitants too in his Sense : for they are likewise reckoned before the War with the Romans , his business being to give an account of the present Inhabitants , and not merely of the ancient . To which I reply , that this is a mere imposing upon the Reader : for Beda , when he names the five Nations , speaks of them in relation to the present Languages wherein God was praised within the Isle , but when he speaks of the old Inhabitants , he speaks onely of the Britons , Picts and Scots ; and the reason why he sets not down the particular time wherein these fixed in the Isles , as he does when he speaks of the Romans and Saxons , is because he knew the one but the other was so ancient , that the exact time of their first settlement was not known ; for certainly a Chronologue would not have omitted that if he had known it . For speaking of the Romans settlement , he condescends upon the particular Year : But when he speaks of the settlement of the Scots and Picts , he onely saith [ Ut fertur ] as they say , a word which he could not have used here , had it not been in matters of the remotest antiquity . And if so , certainly they must be much more ancient than the 503. And the inquisitive Beda was not able to reach so far back in the Year 700. wanting the helps of the old Manuscripts in our Monasteries , which onely could tell him the exact time , and so he was forced to rest in the general remark of our being fixed here time out of mind even before his own age which was so near to the 503. that his own Father might have told him precisely when we setled , if we had not setled here till then . The Doctor 's second answer is , that Beda does not at all intimate that the Scots were in Britain before the Romans and Saxons . To which it is replyed , that Beda is a Chronologue , and is carefull of the Notation of time where he knows it : And therefore it seems still to me and has done so to such as understand well Chronology , as sure a demonstration as that Science can allow , that the Scots being named as one of the three ancient Nations inhabiting this Isle , and their actions against the Britons and Romans , being narrated before the Saxons are said to have entred , that therefore their settlement must be the elder , though it be not said in express terms , and if any account of Kings , or memorable actions , were set down by a Chronologue , without adding the years , these things behov'd to be considered ancient , according to the order wherein they are exprest ; especially in this case , since the * defeat of the Britons by the Scots and Picts is made the cause of bringing in the Saxons ; and the cause must necessarily precede the effect . In fortification of all which , we must mind , that this will agree better with the following Citations , which clear , that the Scots settled here before the year 404 ; at which time the Saxons entred , and that they were here before the Romans , is likewise clear : for after they are marked to be setled in this Isle , * Britain is said to be unknown to the Romans . And as the Romans are acknowledged to have been here before the Saxons , and so to be set down by Beda before them ; Why should not the Scots be likewise acknowledged to have been setled here before the Romans , since their settlement is first mentioned ? The Doctor 's third Answer is , * That though Severus's Wall was acknowledged to be built against the unconquer'd Nations beyond it ; yet it is not said , that the Scots and Picts were these unconquer'd Nations , else the controversie had been ended : But on the contrary , Dion , by whom we may understand Beda's meaning , tells us , that these Nations were the Maeatae and Caledonii : To which it is reply'd , that Beda , in his first Chapter , mentions onely the Scots and Picts , as setled here with the Britons : in the second he brings in the Romans , and gives an account of their progress under Iulius Caesar : in the third under Claudius : in the fourth under Marcus Antoninus : in the fifth , under Severus , he mentions the building of the Wall to secure the Roman Conquest against the unconquer'd Nations . After which , in the 12th , he recapitulates the War betwixt the Britons and Romans , against these unconquer'd Nations , whom afterwards he still calls Scots and Picts . And again , he mentions the Scots and Picts , as the onely invaders of this Wall , built against those Nations whom he called unconquer'd , without speaking of the Maeatae or Caledonii : So that from Beda it is clear , that these unconquer'd Nations were the Scots and Picts ; and therefore , by Dr. Stillingfleet's own confession , the controversie is at an end . And these Moeatoe and Caledonii were in effect the Scots and Picts , considered as Highlanders and Lowlanders : for Bochart Canaan , l. 1. 42. tells us , that Camdenus rectè deducit Galedonios à Britannico Caled , quod durum sonat ; duri enim & asperi erant incolae , & terra etiam tota horridis & confragosis montibus attollitur . Caledoniis opponuntur Moeatoe , Camd. de Britannia Septentrionali , p. 3. Incoloe ol●m in Myatas & Caledonios distincti erant , id est , in campestres & montanos . Idem , p. 501. Decheumeath , i. e. planities ad austrum . And he derives Caled and Meath , from Hebrew and Arabick of the same signification . And this farther appears by comparing Dion Cassius cited by the Doctor , with Claudian ; for Dion onely says , Britannorum duo sunt proesertim genera , Caledonii & Maeatoe : nam coeterorum nomina ad hos ferè referuntur . Incolunt Moeatae juxta eum murum , qui Insulam in duas partes dividit ; Caledonii post illos sunt . And Claudian tells us who were these against whom the Wall was built . Venit & extremis legio proetenta Britannis , Quae Scoto dat fraena truci , ferróque notatas . Perlegit exanimes Picto moriente figuras . From which I observe , that the Moeatoe were in effect the Picts , who dwelt in the Low Countrey nearest the Wall , and that the Caledonii were the Scots who then lived in the Hills . So that Dion is so far from proving that the Wall was not built against the Scots and Picts , that he agreeth with the other Authours cited here and elsewhere , who all concur to prove , that the Wall was built against the Scots and Picts . And the Doctor might as well conclude , that our actions done here this day , are not done by the Scots , because our Histories speak oft-times of the Highlanders and Lowlanders , which are the Maeatoe and Caledonii . And I do conclude , that either the Doctor is not a man to parallel Authours with Authours , or else he is not of that candour I did formerly take Dr. Stilling fleet to be . The Doctor 's Fourth Answer is , That when Beda makes the Scots a transmarine Nation , as dwelling beyond the Friths , and not out of Britain ; this is onely said in his own defence ; because in his first Chapter he had setled them in Britain : and no more respect should be had to this , than if a Scotish Writer in Beda's time had spoken of the Transmarine Saxons , using the words of an Authour who lived before their coming into Britain , and then should explain himself that he does not mean the German Saxons , but these who lived in Britain beyond the two Friths : Would this prove that the Saxons lived here before Iulius Coesar's time ? all this I confess is a piece of odd reasoning : for certainly we must either deny all Authority and reason , or confess that Beda , who was so ancient an Authour , and liv'd so near to Gildas's time , and to our Countrey , behoved to know whether the Scots liv'd in Ireland or not : And it is not to be thought , that Beda would have written so distinctly and positively such a great and palpable Lye , merely to maintain his own Assertion : and therefore his acknowledgment , that we were setled here beyond the Friths , and not in Ireland , proves sufficiently quod erat probandum ; and it seems to me a descension below the gravity of so great a Doctor , to sport himself over and over upon the empty criticism of my calling this a demonstration ; neither is it any wonder , that the Doctor is angry at me when I cite Beda : for both the Bishop of * St. Asaph and † he , treat Beda so , because what he writes makes for us . To Gildas's Authority it is answered by the ‖ Doctor , that by these Seas must not be understood the Friths of Forth and Clyde , but the Sea betwixt Ireland and Scotland ; because that Gildas speaks still of them as carrying away their prey beyond Seas ; and the passage over the Frith behoved to be as large as that over the Seas , being 40 miles in some places ; whereas the passage betwixt Scotland and Ireland , is , in some places , but 13 miles . To this it is Reply'd , that the Friths are called Mare Scoticum , both by our Laws and the English Writers : And to these I now add their own * Luddus . His words are , Bernicia verò à Tissa ad mare Scoticum , quod nunc Frith vocant . To which the Doctor neither has , nor can make any answer . And so the word Trans Mare is not impropriated when it is applyed to our mare Scoticum : and though in some places the Frith of Clyde be so broad at the very entry to the Ocean , where it is rather Sea than River , yet many parts betwixt Scotland and Ireland are much broader than the broadest part of the Friths . And the Scots in their Corroughs did not pass at the broadest part , but near the Wall at Dunbritton , where they were nearest the Picts , and it is not a Mile broad there , and is little broader for a long tract of the River under it ; and the broadest part of it is exceedingly more calm and passable than the Irish Sea ; the one being but a River and within Land , and the other being a strait of the wide and open Northern Ocean , where the Sea , by how much it is straitned , becomes the more turbulent . And therefore when Claudian expresses our Invasions and Flights , he does it by Oars . Fregit Hyperboreas remis audacibus undas . But that of the Saxons by Sails . — Venturum Saxona Ventis . Which presupposes Sails . Nor were the Corroughs mention'd by Coesar ( l. 1. de bello Civili ) cited by the Doctor , made for Seas , but Rivers , as is clear by the words , Nec pontes perfici possent ; and these Militésque his navibus flumen transportat . Edit . Variorum 1670. & 492. It does not therefore appear probable , or reasonable , that a whole Fleet should be made by poor Pilferers of such stuff fit to carry an Army , with its prey , over so turbulent a Sea , and in the Winter time , they having fought and pillaged all the Summer , and the prey being then ordinarily either Cows or Horses , there being little else to be plundered ; and if they had passed at Cantyre , which is that narrow place , they behov'd to have travell'd likewise over a whole tract of ground , and two other Seas , before they had come to the Frith of Clyde , and the Britons Countrey . And Beda explaining Gildas's own words , tells us , that they ceas'd not to drive preys from the Britons ; And agere praedam , to drive a prey , is what can onely be done by Land , and so could not have been done in Corroughs . Nor is that driving by Corroughs ever called a Piracy , as it would have , if it had been from one Island to another . But the carrying of Beasts over a River is consistent enough with the driving a prey , though that this , in the Doctor 's sense , infers an impropriety in the words , as well as a contradiction to common sense . Whereas it is in the last place , urg'd , that a Wall against the Scots and Picts had been ridiculous , if the Scots could have come against the Britons by Sea. It is replyed , that the Doctor ( not knowing the Geography of the place so well as we , who have seen it ) does not consider that this Argument proves rather against himself ; for if the Scots had dwelt in Ireland , which is almost to the South from Dunbritton , It had been ridiculous to have built a Wall against them from East to West : for against these incursions from Ireland by Sea in Corroughs , it should have been built along the mouth and coast of Clyde , from South to North , and the Doctor will allow me at least to call this a Demonstration ; it being a thing that may be seen . But the true reason why the Wall was built , is very obvious , viz. because the incursions were made by the Scots and Picts , who were not formidable except when united , and they had no passage for an Army when united , but over the Wall : whereas any injury they could doe in their Corroughs over the Frith was very inconsiderable , and could have been easily stopt ; and so the Wall was still usefull against Conquest , thoughnot against Piracy . And to conclude ; all this is most consistent with Beda's Sense of Transmarine , but not with the Doctor 's : And therefore we should rather believe the venerable Beda speaking of things very near his own time , when they are very probable , than a Paradox , broacht lately , far distant from these times , and defended now by our too partial Adversaries : especially since Beda shall be prov'd to agree thus , not onely better with common Sense , but with all the Authorities of the Roman Authours and Criticks . And I must still mind my Readers , that received Histories are not to be overturned without infallible Proofs brought against them . But who can be a more favourable Judge for the Doctor , than the Saxon and so his own Countrey-man , Albertus Crantzius ? Or who can better understand the Time of the Saxons descent , and the History of Beda , than he who is himself the famous Saxon Historian ? He * then tells us , that in the Year 449 the Saxons were first invited here , but he says , Let us write from a higher Rise . And so he proceeds to tell how the Picts setled here , and he adds , that within a very little after them , the Scots , resolving not to stay in Ireland , sailed sometime into Scotland ; and being for a little time resisted by the Picts , * both Nations setled in that part , which is of very old called Scotland . After which , he proceeds to † settle the Romans , and to relate our Wars with them , and he gives an account that the Wall built by Severus , was against the Scots and Picts , without mentioning , either the Maeatae or the Caledonii . From which it is clear , that Crantzius not onely makes our settlement much elder , than that of the Saxons , and that we were here before them by way of settlement ; and not by way of Incursion ; but also expressly acknowledges , that our settlement was very near as old as the Picts , who are beyond all dispute own'd to have been here long before Iulius Caesar's time . And ( which is very remarkable ) he cites none of our Historians for confirming his opinion , and cites onely Beda , whom he interprets , and understands as we do , and as indeed all th World does , except our prejudiced Adversaries . It is also objected by the Doctor , that Gildas * tells us , that the Scots and Picts two Transmarine Nations , did first invade the Britons , under Maximus , which was long after Caesar's time . To which it is answered , that Gildas there designs not to speak of the first Invasion of the Scots and Picts , upon the Britons , but onely of the first of the three Vastations made by them : for the Scots and Picts did often invade the Britons formerly , as is clear by Eumenius and others , yet they were never able to waste their Lands , untill that Maximus disarm'd the Britons altogether , as Gildas relates . And after this , Gildas sets down the other two Vastations , and names them all , under the express numbers of First , Second and Third Vastations . ( 1. ) It is most clear by this passage , that the Scots who made this Vastation , liv'd not in Ireland but in Scotland , beyond the Wall and Friths ; for Gildas calls both the Scots and Picts , Transmarine , without distinction . And certainly the Picts lived not in Ireland at that time , and therefore neither did the Scots : And consequently , Beda did most justly interpret the word Transmarine to be ; not because they liv'd without Britain , but beyond the Friths , and Beda intimates that that was the common acceptation of the Word Transmarine , which is imported in the Phrase , Transmarinas autem non dicimus , &c. Because it's 〈◊〉 by the Bishop and the Doctor , that Gildas can onely mean in all these passages , the Irish residing in Ireland ; since he says * the Irish returned Home ; and where could the Home of the Irish be , but in Ireland ? I think fit to refer the Reader to the Seventh Section of my former Book ; where I have fully prov'd , that by the Irish , in these Citations , is meant the Irish inhabiting Scotland , and which I shall again more fully vindicate in the fourth Chapter of this Book , from the objections urged in this New Answer . I urged also in my Book , many Authorities to prove , that it was the general opinion , even of the English Historians , that we were setled here , even before Iulius Caesar's time , to which the Doctor returns no Answer . And this having proved my position by Authorities within the Isle , I 'll now pass to the foreign Authours . Against the Citation urged from Eumenius in his Panegyrick to Constantius , the Doctor does very little else but repeat what the Bishop had said , and I had 〈…〉 ly refuted ; and seeing he can make none but such inconsiderable additions , I wonder to find that Argument renewed , unless the Doctor thinks that his Authority is greater than the Bishop of St. Asaph's , for I have already observed , that the Comparison is strong enough in Buchanan's Sense , which is all that is requisite . And I wonder to hear him say , that it was not a greater advantage , and more for Constantius's honour , that he did beat the Britons after they had been long trained up to fight , even by the Romans , than when they were altogether rude , and had never seen any enemies but Picts and Irish in Iulius Caesar's time : For as common reason teacheth us , that they could not but considerably improve , in near four hundred years time of frequent Wars ; So the Bishop of St. Asaph tells us , * that , to the end they might more easily resist the Scots and Picts , the Romans taught them the Art of War , and furnisht them with Arms ; which is sufficient to sustain the strength of the Oratour's comparison , when he asserts , that Constantius's Victory over the Britons was greater than that of Caesar's : And albeit the next Paragraph mentioneth other advantages , yet it does not follow , that these advantages were not very considerable , and these advantages are no part of the former Comparison , but make a new Paragraph , and are a new heightning of Constantius's Victory , from other grounds , ( 2. ) I could never see how it could be truly said by the Oratour , that the Britons were used to fight against the Irish and Picts , if by the Irish be not meant there , the Scots : for as I have prov'd that we were called Irish in those Ages , so I desire to know where the Britons were used to fight against any Other Irish save those , who inhabited Britain ? Nor do the Irish pretend that ever there were any Wars between the Britons and them , save onely in Egbert's time , which was many years after Caesar ; and even this is but a Conjecture of a late Authour , Usher and Flahartie do adduce no more ancient Authour for it . And so that cannot verifie the Oratour's saying , that they were accustomed to fight against the Irish in Caesar's time . It is also very considerable , that the Picts here are joyned , as used to fight joyntly against the Britons , for it can never be instanced that the Picts joyned with any against the Britons , save with us . And it is indeed incredible , that the Scots should be accustomed to fight from Caesar's time to Constantius's , and to the Year 503 , ( which must at least include about six hundred years , allowing onely one hundred years to verifie that word ) and yet never settle where they fought , venturing their lives for the defence of other Mens Lands for a prey , which could be of very little use to be plundered in those days , there being little to be taken save Cattel , which could have been hardly transported in Corroughs over such boisterous Seas , ( 3. ) The Doctor tells us , that Britannicum , and not Britannum is the Adjective , or at least that this Authour useth onely Britannicum for the Adjective ; and so soli Britanni were not good Grammar , if constructed in the Genitive . But to this I reply , that the Doctor adverts not that I have prov'd by Citations , which he Answers not , that Britannum is an Adjective and so soli Britanni , good Grammar in the Genitive , and there is nothing more ordinary for Oratours than to vary their Phrase , using sometime one way of expressing , and sometime another , variety in such Cases giving both delight and Ornament : Nor can I see why , if this had been ill Grammar , Cambden would not have carped at it , as he did not ; or how Scaliger would not have taken notice of it , he having decided for us , after Buchanan had put this Construction on this expression : for though Scaliger doth not expressly take notice of the Construction , yet after he had fully considered the debate betwixt Buchanan and Luddus ( wherein this was one chief Argument ) he decides for Buchanan , which upon the matter is a clear approbation of Buchanan's Construction . This is all I contended for , by citing Scaliger ; onely the Citation of him on Tibullus is wrong printed , for that of his on Eusebius . And that this is a clear Consequence drawn from Scaliger in his Notes on Eusebius , is undeniable . And if so , then certainly the opinion of Scaliger and Buchanan , with Cambden's acquiescence , is much to be preferred to our prejudiced Enemies , whose Learning does not lye so much that way . The Argument from the pointing adduced by the Doctor , in Puteanus's Edition of Eumenius is not onely contrary to that of Stephanus and Plantin , which I have cited ; but even from that way of pointing , there is no advantage to the Doctor . For to sustain the words soli Britanni to be Nominative , there should have been a Comma after soli Britanni : For as they now run , Et soli Britanni Pictis modo , & Hibernis assueta hostibus , they cannot be Constructed otherwise than thus , Natio rudis & assueta hostibus , Pictis & Hibernis , soli Britanni : And if soli Britanni likewise had been Nominative , the Oratour to make good Grammar , should rather have said Natio rudis , & soli Britanni assueti , ( and not assueta ) Pictis & Hibernis . But abstracting from both the pointing and the Grammar , it is undeniable from this place , that this ancient Roman Oratour did in the days of Constantius before the Year 503. consider our Colony as accustomed to fight against the Britons , and as a distinct people joyned in this War with the Picts , which cannot be applyed to any other Nation but to us . And therefore Cambden and Usher , more reasonably fly to another subterfuge , viz. that Eumenius spoke according to the conception of that Age , wherein he lived ; and it is undeniable , that that Age considered onely us , and the Picts , as fighting against the Britons , and as two Nations fixt here . But this Answer is also very ridiculous ; for if our Antiquity had not been very considerable in Eumenius's days , the Oratour would not have exposed himself so far , as to found the Comparison upon a palpable lye , where he might have been traced ; and so I confess if such kind of Answers as these be allowed , no Nation can prove its Antiquity . But agreeably to all these objections , this Citation proves at least , that the * Bishop of St. Asaph's position , that the Scots were not at all in Britain , neither by Incursion , nor by any other way , till the Year 300. is inconsistent with this Roman Authour , as well as our Story , and the general belief of Rome at that time . The next Authour whom I did cite , was Latinus Pacatius , who , in his Panegyrick to Theodosius upon his Victory in Britain , complements him for having reduc'd the Scots to their own Marishes ; which shews , that the Scots had their own Marishes in Britain before the year 503. To which the Doctor answereth nothing . And from the same Authours calling ( in another place ) the same Marishes , the Marishes of the Caledonians , I infer , that these Marishes were in Britain , and not in Ireland ; and that the Scots were called Caledonians . And thereafter I adduce Valerius Flaccus and Martial , to prove our Antiquity . To all which , the Doctor answers nothing , but that the Caledonians were Britons , without answering my citations , which I have adduc'd to prove this . And as to the Criticks whom I cite for us , * he says very wisely and profoundly , that we are not to follow Modern Writers in their Improprieties . This Answer , so injurious to all the learned world , he also returns to my proving from Lipsius , Bergier and others , that Galgacus was a Scot. And when from Tacitus himself I prove , that he must necessarily have been a Scot , for the Irish Kings never came to fight in Britain . He could not be a Briton , because he was speaking to those who had never been under the Roman slavery . And Tacitus tells that he was a King of a Nation unknown , and but newly discovered , whereas the Romans formerly knew the Britons . Neither was he ever pretended to be a Pict , nor is he in the Genealogy of their Kings . To all this the Doctor answers nothing . All then that is answer'd to my testimony from Tacitus , is , That those who fought under Galgacus , were Britons , and not Scots , as appears by Galgacus's Speech to them , wherein he says , that they are the noblest of the Britons , and fight to recover the Liberty of the Britons : And if Tacitus had known that they came out of Ireland , he had told it ; nor could that Irish King who was with Agricola , have omitted to inform him of this . To which I Reply ; That Agricola wrote not this relation himself , but it is written by Tacitus , who had it from Agricola , and so cannot be exact , being but the relation of a relation ; and probably Agricola knew more of it from that Irish King. But there is enough in Tacitus to prove , that we were setled in Britain at that time , and were of Spanish extraction from Ireland , which was all that Irish King could inform . For it is clear , ( 1. ) That those who fought under Galgacus were Caledonians , and past not under the general name of Britons ; for Galgacus exhorts them , to shew by their valour , * what brave Men Caledonia had separated from the rest ; and though they were Britons , yet that proves not that they were not Caledonian Britons , ( 2. ) Galgacus tells , that they were yet † unconquer'd and untoucht , which is not applicable to the old Britons , for they were conquer'd before that time ; but is so far peculiar to the Picts and us , that we are still called Indomitae gentes . ( 3. ) Tacitus describes two different People in Britain , one big and white , which shewed them of a German extraction ; another black in hair and face , said to be of a Spanish extraction . And can any thing agree better with our Histories , and the description of the Picts , who are said to have come from Germany , and of us who are said to be a Colony of Spaniards , that rested for some time in Ireland ? And Tacitus's saying , that it could hardly be known then , whether these Nations were * Originally Britons , or Strangers , shews , that we were there very anciently ; which is also clear'd by Beda , and confirms what he and Eumenius say . And immediately after Tacitus , we are known under the names of Scots and Picts ; and the ablest Criticks , who have compared Histories , call Galgacus expresly , King of the Scots ; whose Interpretation , because that is their trade , and they are disinterested , must be prefer'd to the Doctor 's ; and I add now to Lipsius , Bergier and others , whom the Doctor acknowledges to prove that Galgacus was a Scot , Keppingius , who , though he doubts of some of our Antiquities , places amongst these things , which are certain , that in Agricola's time , Galgacus , King of Scotland , fought bravely to retain his Liberty : and Farnabius , a learned and judicious English Critick , in his Commentary upon Martial , lib. Spectaculorum , Epigram . 7. l. 3. who on these words , Nuda Caledonio sic pectora praebuit urso . Saith , The Ursus Caledonius is è Scotia . And on these words , lib. 10. Epigram . 44. Quinte Caledonios Ovidi visure Britannos . He interpreteth Caledonios Britannos to be Scotos , conform to his exposition of the foresaid words . [ Nuda Caledonio , &c. ] Schrevelius also , in his Edition of Martial , cum not is variorum , is altogether of Farnaby's mind , and useth his very words in his Commentary upon the two fore-cited places . I will finish this period with Gretius , who , speaking of our Barclay , calls him Gente Caledonius , &c. And with Scaliger the Father , who , in his Exercitations against Cardan , declares the Ursi Caledonii to be Ursi Scotici : Which Authours , and many others , have prevail'd with Church-hill , in his Divi Britannici , to differ from our Doctor , in confessing that the Caledonii were the Scots . By the same Magisterialness , with which he contemn'd Lipsius , and the other Criticks , in the former citation , he does also condemn the authority of Scaliger , and Salmasius , in my urging the Citations of Scotobrigantes , in Seneca , and of the Scoticae primae , in Spartian . But however I must beg leave , notwithstanding this , to consider , those two ancient Authours , Seneca and Spartian , to be sufficient proofs of our Antiquity , till the Doctor 's friends can prove to me that he is a greater Critick , and as impartial in this case as Scaliger and Salmasius are . But however , the Doctor answers not the reasons I adduced , for proving these their Criticisms to be most just : and these are abstract from all authority , and I recommend the reading of them to any impartial Judge . Claudian may be justly called by us , the Scotish Poet , as Beda is the Scotish Antiquary : for Claudian's whole Poem is , in effect , a continued confirmation of our History . For he having written a Panegyrick to Honorius , and in it magnifying Theodosius his Grandfather , he describes all along his fighting with the Scots , which Sigonius calculates to be in the year 367. as Isackson on this year observes . And I refer my Reader to my former Book , as to these passages cited by me , none of which passages can be applied to the Scots in Ireland , with whom Theodosius never fought , but onely to the Scots in Britain , with whom it is certain he did fight , many Monuments whereof are extant in that part of our Countrey called Ierna . But the Doctor says , though this were granted , yet it would fall much short of Alexander , or Iulius Caesar's time : And what then ? for I never intended that this should prove either , but onely that we were elder than the 503. But ( says he ) there appears no Demonstration . More wonderfull still ! for I called it no Demonstration , though I think it weighs as much as any thing in the Doctor 's Book . And I take notice onely of this Raillery , and Sophistical way of answering , to detect the two great Engines which the Reverend Doctor useth all along in his Book . That which he answers here speciously is , that by Ierna , is meant Ireland by the Poet , and does he not mention the Scots moving all Ierne ? — Totam cum Scotus Iernen Movit , & infesto spumavit remige Tethys . And is it not Poetical ( says the Doctor ) to say he mov'd all a little part of Scotland ? To which my Replies are , that first Scotland was called Ireland in these days , as I have prov'd in the seventh Section of my former Book , and shall prove more fully in the fourth Chapter of this . Onely at present I shall add , the * English Polychronicon , which expresly tells us so , Prior to Fordon . ( 2. ) Did Theodosius conquer Ireland , or persue them over to Ireland ? and does any Authour call Ireland , [ glacialis Ierne ? ] So then when a name is proper to two places , which of the two is meant , should be determined by the action which is said to be done in the place . And how agrees this with Beda's telling , that we were setled here long before that time , and were not Transmarine ? Or with Latinus Pacatius , who says , that Claudius , before that time , triumph'd over Britain , and reduc'd the Scots ad suas paludes ? And where have the Irish any Monuments and Histories of these Victories , as we have ? ( 3. ) Does not Iuvenal expresly make us , Iuverna , which is the same thing with Ierna ? — Arma quidem ultra Littora Juvernae promovimus . Which cannot be applied to Ireland , because the Romans never went thither , much less went they beyond it ; and the adding — Et modo captas Orcadas , & minimâ contentos nocte Britannos . does not all agree with Ireland : for it is neither joyn'd to , nor is it near the Orcades , nor has it so short nights as we have . But ( 4. ) The name of Ierna was not confin'd to the little Conntrey of Stratherne , but was extended to all the Northern Highlands , as far as Innerness , and so the Raillery of [ moving all a certain little part ] is insipid : nor is there any thing more ordinary than to give the denomination of a part of a Countrey to the whole ; and thus , when it is said , the King beat the Hollanders ; By this , is meant , the whole Netherlands , though Holland be onely a part : and this figure is so frequent in all the Latin Poets , that it were a mark of ones ignorance either to deny it , or insist on it . Thus Petronius Arbiter expresses the defeat given by Caesar to Aphranius in Spain , per funer a gentis Iberae , though Iberia be but a little part of Spain , so called from the River Iberus , because the Battel was fought there ; which holds in every circumstance with our case , wherein the Poet describes the trouble of all Scotland , by Ierna , because the Battel was fought there , though Ierna be onely a part of Scotland , called from a River of that name . And all Scotland , by the same Poet , and to this day , is called Caledonia , though Caledonia be but a small part of it about Dunkeld . And though I should grant that by Ierne here was meant Ireland , yet that cannot make against our being setled here before that time ; For it is very reasonable to think , that the Irish , hearing that the Romans had penetrated so far into Scotland , as to have defeated so many of these as came originally from Ireland , they would have sent over men to assist us ; especially knowing that it might be their lot , next : even as if the French should beat and ruine the Scots now setled in Ireland , our whole Countrey would certainly be in a commotion , and we would send over men to their assistence , as we did in the late Wars . I confirm'd this citation of Claudian , by that of Sidonius Apollinaris , which is likewise an original proof of our Antiquity . To which the Doctor answers , that Sidonius distinguishes the Caledonian Britons from the Scots and Picts ; This is , indeed , just such another , as if , because I call my self , in Latin , Scoto-Britannus , I should distinguish my self from the Scots and Britons . But I would fain know who were these Caledonian Britons , who were different both from the Scots and Picts ; for after he has named the Caledonian Britons , in general , he specifies afterwards both the Sc t s and Picts . There is no answer made to the testimonies from Hegesippus , Ammianus Marcellinus , nor Orosius : and therefore I now proceed to the Ecclesiastick Writers cited . After I had made it very probable that this Nation received , very early , the Christian Faith , because the Christians , who were persecuted by the Romans , would fly hither to us who had never submitted to the Roman Tyranny : I cited , in general , for our Nations being converted under the Reign of King Donald , Baronius , as the standard of Ecclesiastick History amongst the Papists , and the Magdeburgick Centuries among the Protestants . And it is strange , if they , being disinterested , and having the help of their respective parties , should fail in so remarkable a matter as that of the conversion of a whole Nation . Nor can Baronius be thought interested , because he would design to make our first Mission flow from Pope Victor , and our first Bishop to be sent from Pope Celestine : for it was all one to Baronius , as making as much for the Court of Rome , that our first Bishop came from any Posteriour Pope . And if our single and interested adversaries ( though so mightily extolled by one another , ) should be preferred to these Authours , and as infallible as they would fain be thought , there is indeed an end of all Controversie . But I am sure the rejecting of all Authorities , I have cited , and which are not so much as controverted , will not take with the indifferent World , and that satisfies me . But however , beside the Authorities of these great Men , let us consider the Grounds upon which they are founded , and which I have considered as well in all the Editions of Baronius I could find , as the Doctor could have done , though the Doctor in his wonted way Magisterially says , that it seems I never looked into him . I am used in my Employment to be contradicted , which makes me look exactly to my Citations . And whereas the Doctor tells , that what Baronius says , relates to the Conversion of the Scots , and not to their Antiquity , This is very ill reasoned : for it Baronius concludes , that we were a distinct Christian Nation from the Irish ; and had a Church distinct from theirs long before the Year 503. it must necessarily follow , that in Baronius sense , we were a Nation settled here long before the Year 503. Prosper does expresly say , that Palladius was sent to the Scots believing in Christ , to be their First Bishop , ordain'd by Pope Celestine . This Mission is acknowledged to be in the Year 431. and consequently there were Scots before that time , believing in Christ , so nationally , as to need a Bishop . The Controversie then is , whether these Scots , to whom Palladius was sent , were the Scots in Ireland , or the Scots in Britain for these Reasons . ( 1. ) Because Beda says so in those Chapters , wherein he speaks onely of us , and not of the Irish , and Dr. Stillingfleet onely repeats here what I have formerly refuted . And Beda could not but understand best of any man the Conversion of a Nation , to which he was so near a Neighbour , to a Church , in which he is accounted so eminent an Historian and Teacher . ( 2. ) The universal Tradition of the Christian Church , and of ours in particular , makes Palladius our First Bishop , and our Monasteries and Church-men could not but carefully transmit such a point as that to us ; especially in an age wherein Learning and Letters were freqeent enough to be usefull , in remembring so extraordinary a point . And St. Patrick is acknowledged by the Irish themselves , to be their First Bishop , which could not be if Palladius had been before him so that the Doctor here is forced to ove 〈…〉 all History and Tradition , to establish his own . ( 3. ) The same Prosper does elsewhere say , that Palladius being ordain'd Bishop for the Scots , whilst he studied to preserve the Roman isle , Catholick , he made the Barbarous , Christian. And that our Countrey was called an Isle , is acknowledged by all Writers , after the building of the Wall. But I now farther evince this point by Hadrianus Valesius , an Authour much commended by the Doctor himself , who , lib. 3. Rer. Francicar . pag. 144. ad annum 429. has this most clear and unanswerable passage . Sic igitur Britanniae Provincias quinque quae Romanis paruerant , Angli occupavere . Reliqua Picti Scotique incolebant : Et cum antea ut Prosper docet , pars Britanniae imperio Romano subjecta , Romana Insula , pars à Pictis , & Scotis habitata , barbara Insula appellaretur , omnis Britannia barbara Insula facta est . With whom agree Petavius & Car. Sigon . de Imper. Occident . p. 291. So that Dr. Stillingfleet does unwarrantably turn this our Argument into an objection . And the matters of Fact narrated , being onely applicable to Scotland , as I have said , and as is clear , by the best Interpreters that must determine the Case betwixt the Irish and Us. ( 4. ) Baronius and the Magdeburgick Centuries make Palladius our First Bishop and the Mission to be to Us : And though they be not allowed by the Doctor to be absolute Judges , yet certainly they must be allow'd to be the best Interpreters , and Baronius expresly says , Una omnium cum Prospero est Sententia , &c. that all others were of this opinion . The learned Bishop of St. Asaph , and Dr. Stilling sleet , to overturn this undeniable point , have invented a New Hypothesis of Palladius , having been first sent to Ireland , but that his Mission being unsuccessfull , he came back and died in the Confines of the Picts , and then the same Pope Celestine , sent St. Patrick ; which Hypothesis I may now think is fully overturned , since Dr. Stilling fleet answers nothing to the many absurdities and inconsistencies which I urged against it ; and to which I onely now add that since the Bishop confesses that he dares not deny , that there were several Conversions made before Palladius in Ireland about the Year 400 , It is strange that Palladius should have met with so much opposition , as to make him so soon despair , that he returned notwithstanding his Zeal , and St. Patrick posted from France to Rome , and from thence to Ireland within less than a Year : and so Palladius is onely called the first Bishop in Nomination , and St. Patrick the first in Success . Rare reasoning , rare despairing , rare posting , and rare distinctions to over-turn the universal Traditions and Histories of all the Nations concerned ! Upon which account the Bishop of St. Asaph * doth very ingenuously confess , that this doth not consist well with our Hypothesis , nor with Prosper's own words . And all this is founded upon Nennius , as the Doctor † acknowledges , and the ‖ Bishop of St. Asaph , and yet they confess that he is but a fabulous Authour , and cites Prosper most falsly , saying that Palladius Missus est ad Scotos in Christum convertendos , and upon a Notation of time falsly imputed to Baloeus , which I formerly urged , and is not answer'd . And the Doctor in the forecited 2d . Chapter , p. 53. would have us believe that Prosper contradicts himself in making the Scots to be converted by Palladius , and yet to have been Christians before his time , which are inconsistent . But he knows better things , for there were Christians here before Palladius : for he was sent to be the first Bishop which presupposes Christians already converted , and a Church ready to be established ; and he being sent also to convert us from the Pelagian Heresie , as Baronius Petavius and others observe , it must necessarily follow that we were a Church before that time , and remarkable too , for having a Heresie ( which is an Errour long , and obstinately maintain'd ) spread amongst us , and consequently we must necessarily have been a Nation long before that time . But all men must be ignorant , and inconsistent , when they make against the Doctor , and he cannot answer them . And why doth the Doctor lay the stress of this * objection upon Prosper : if he be such an Authour as is not consistent with himself , as the † Doctor says ? And therefore I may be allowed to say that Prosper's Testimony is for us . I must beg the Doctor 's leave to say , That the learned Dr. Hammond differs not from me in the Point here controverted ; for I have proved clearly from him , That we were Christians long before the Year 503. by Dr. Stillingfleet's own Confession , pag. 63. praef . For if we were converted before the Year 503 , We were setled before that Year . But so it is , That Dr. Hammond confesses , we were converted before Celestine's time , and that Palladius was sent to our Scotia , and not to Ireland ; To which Dr. Stillingfleet makes no solid Answer at all . And where the Doctor says , That I concealed Dr. Hammond's asserting that we received the first Rudiments of the Christian Faith from the Britains , in rejecting the Roman Customs ; It is answered , That whether we received Christianity from the Greek or Romish Church , or whether our Conversion was rude or perfect , is not here controverted ; But whether we received it before Palladius's Mission : And that we were Christians before his time , is clear from Dr. Hammond's own express Words . And though I relate our Conversion by Pope Victor , as the common opinion , yet I am so little tyed to that opinion , That I also , from Beda , relate our Agreement as to Easter and other Points , with the Greek Church , in contradiction to that of Rome ; and from which , Archbishop Spotswood did , before Dr. Hammond , think that our Conversion was from the Grecian Church . To conclude this whole Point , concerning Palladius , I am sure it s very Irreconcileable , that Dr. Stillingfleet should acknowledge that the Bishop of St. Asaph mis-cited Baloeus , for proving that Palladius dyed Anno 431. ( upon which , his whole Hypothesis depends ) and yet that he should positively assert , That the Bishop's onely fault was , that he was too exact in that Hypothesis . The next Ecclesiastick Authour I did cite was Tertullian , who about the Year 202. says * that the British Nations that could not be subdued by the Romans , yet willingly yielded their Necks to the Yoke of Christ. To this the Doctor onely answers , that this must be understood of the Moeatoe and Caledonii . But this is inconsistent with Baronius's applying that passage to us : and that Sense is not so much for the honour of the Christian Religion , these being but sub-divisions of a Nation . But since this passage of the Conquer'd Nations in Britain , and that I have proved unanswerably by Beda , that the Picts and We were these unconquered Nations , it necessarily follows , that this passage is onely applicable to us . The Doctor answers St. Ierome transiently , applying likewise what is said there of the Scots , to the Scots in Ireland , without giving any special answers to the Citations . But I have so fully refuted this in my Book , that it needs no reply . But if the Reader please , he may likewise consider St. Ierome , where , speaking of Pelagius , he says , * His extraction was from the Scotish Nation in the Neighbourhood of Britain . And though some contend that Pelagius was a Briton , none ever contended that he was an Irish man , and the Neighbourhood of the Britons cannot be extended so properly to Ireland , as to us . But whether Briton or Scot , yet it is clear from this Citation , as well as from the former , that in Ierome's opinion there was a Scotish Nation living then in Britain , and that this was the common opinion of the Age , else so good an Authour would not have written so . To the Citation from Epiphanius , nothing is answered . I confirmed all these Citations by several reasons , which are not so subject to quibbling as Citations are ; for these are founded on common Sense , and therefore the Doctor answers little or nothing unto them . But I hope the Reader will duly weigh them . But how can it be imagined that the Irish would have sent no Colonies to settle , till after the 500. Year of God , they having been time out of mind , acknowledged to have been setled in Ireland , and being a very broody People , and having no Wars ( whereas the design of Colonies is to dis-burthen the Nation by foreign Settlements ) or that they would not have assumed to themselves the Glory and advantage of these Wars ? or that the Scots here would have fought for the Picts above six hundred years together , without setling in the Countrey , which they conquered , contrary to the Custome of all other Nations , who made Incursions ? Or how can it be imagined that the Romans would not have resented against the Irish , all their Inrodes , if they had been made from Ireland ? Or that the Picts could have subsisted without the Scots , the Romans and Britons staying all the year within the Isle , and the Scots going home always in the Winter ? Or if they had not been setled among the Picts , till the Saxons were setled among the Britons , how is it imaginable , that the Picts would have invited them to setle then , when they had seen how the Britons were ruined by their Auxiliaries ? Or why would the Picts have invited them to setle among them , when the Picts were become more numerous , by the Generations of six hundred years , and after that they themselves were straitned in their Possessions by the Irruptions of the Saxons ; a new Nation who had gained all betwixt the two Walls , which was , in effect , the far better half of what they possest ? And since the Scots and Picts were still joyned in all the Actions that were performed , and are spoken of still in the same way , and Phrase , how should we think the one was setled , and the other not ? And that no mortal Historian , or other , should have observed this , till Luddu's time ? All these reasons supporting one another , and joyned to our Citations , should be at least allowed to maintain the Authority of so many Historians and Histories , in possession of belief . Having thus established my own position , by Authorities and Reasons , I appealed in this difference betwixt interested Countries , to the dis-interested Judgment of the greatest Criticks and Historians , and all whom I have cited are acknowledged to be on our side , as I have formerly cleared in the respective Citations . To which nothing is answered , but that we must not believe them ( being Modern Writers ) in their Improprieties : An answer indeed , not worthy of so undertaking an Antiquary . That we must not believe Antiquaries in their own Art , nor dis-interested Authours in differences between interested Nations . But since Scaliger is the onely Critick , who is alledged not to be positive for us , I here insert his own Words . In Tibullum , lib. 4. Te manet invictus ? Invictus sane adhuc eo tempore . Nam hactenus ne Caesar quidem illos subjugavit . Primus Caesarum , Claudius de illis triumphavit : Cujus rei amplissimum testimonium habes in Catalect . meorum lib. 1. nempe Elegantissimos versus à quodam ejus temporis poeta scriptos quos inde petas licet . Sed & Seneca , in 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , idem testatur in Choricis Anapoestis , & Coeruleos Scotobrigantes , pro quo ineptissimè hodie editur Scutabrigantas . Quare & Scoti hanc gentis suoe Antiquitatem mihi debent , qui primus illum locum emendavi , quum ipsi hactenus gentis suoe testem Claudiano antiquiorem non haberent . And in Eusebium n. 20. 60. Et Caerulei Scotobrigantes , ut olim feliciter à nobis emendatum esse asserimus : adversantur tamen quidam , in quibus boni , malique ; docti , indocti ; Aiunt Scotos ante tempora senescentis , imperii notos non fuisse . Utinam demonstrationem attulissent quâ nobis jugulum peterent . Ante Constantini tempora , inquiunt , notum Scotorum nomen non erat . Acutum sane telum , nisi plumbeum esset . Burgundiones & Longobardi , decrepitâ oetate imperii coeperunt notescere . Qui eorum meminerunt , de vetustissimis Velleius , & Ptolomaeus , extant hodie . Si periissent , ut multi alii , ideo Longobardos tunc primum , quum in Italiam irruperunt , Burgundiones quum Viennensem & secundam Narbonensem occuparunt , esse , & vocari , coepisse diceremus — Qui igitur ex Hiberniâ in Britanniam ferocissimi trajecerunt , non esse coeperunt , nisi postquam in Britanniâ fuerunt ? Quid stultius ? Quid ineptius ? Sed eorum nulla mentio apud Ptolomaeum & Cornelium Tacitum , atqui nec Burgundionum , Longobardorum , Anglorum & Gothorum , apud Plinium , Strabonem , Melam , alios . Quam indignoe sunt hoe velitationes liberalibus ingeniis ? — Postquam per multum tractum temporis Septentrionalem oram Britanniae excursionibus & latrociniis vexassent , tandem ab Antonino Pio in ordinem redacti , finibus suis sese continuerunt . From which I argue thus , Scaliger there concludes , that we were one of the Nations against whom Claudius fought , and that we were never subdu'd till then . for Claudius never fought against the Irish ; and the Scots here spoken of by Scaliger , must be those whose antiquity Scaliger did formerly prove out of Seneca : for he says , * the Scots owe to him the Antiquity of their Nation . But so it is , that the Irish living in Ireland , do not owe the Antiquity of their Nation to him : for it is not deny'd on either side , that they were much more ancient ; and I am sure the Irish were not called Scots , in Scaliger's time . And both this passage of Tibullus , and that of Seneca , joining the Scots to the Britons , must certainly be interpreted onely of the Scots in Britain , according to Usber's own rule . The passage likewise cited by me out of Eusebius , ad M. M. L. X. does also prove , that Scaliger thought us elder than the declension of the Roman Empire , as is now alledged , for he speaks there of that Nation , of whom he had formerly spoken out of Seneca . But so it is , we were these Scots , and not the Irish : And it was never controverted ; but the Irish was a Nation long before that time , as I said formerly : and consequently , Scaliger contemns very justly those Authours , who deny , that we were a Nation before Constantine's time , because no Authours spoke of us till then : For , says he , the Longobards and Burgundians were established Nations long before they were known by these names . And the Nation of which Scaliger speaks , is that Nation Quae trajecit ex Hiberniâ in Britanniam : And it were ridiculous to apply this to the Scots in Ireland , or deny that Scaliger thought we setled here while the Roman Empire flourished . Scaliger also there says , that after we had troubled Britain by Incursions , we were at last forc'd to contain our selves within our own bounds . Which shews , ( 1. ) That we had made Incursions long before Antoninus's time , which was about 100 years after Christ , contrary to what the Bishop of St. Asaph saith . ( 2. ) Antoninus forced us to contain our selves within our own bounds , and therefore we had bounds and marches of our own , before that time , and so we were setled long before 503. And all this agrees with Eumenius and Pacatius , and proves that what they write relates to us . ( 3. ) Pausanias , ( whom Scaliger there cites ) tells us , that Antoninus took much Land from them ; Ergo , they had Land before that time , for that Land could not be in Ireland , for Antoninus never took Land from the Irish. And whoever these Brigantes were , yet Scaliger there makes us the Brigantes , and the question there is onely concerning Scaliger's opinion of us . Nor am I concerned at his calling us Brigantes : for I can prove that Brigantes signifies not Robbers , but Highlanders , from the word Briga , which signifies an Hill. And I receive kindly the Apology made by the Doctor for the Bishop , that his Lordship called us not Robbers , but onely produced a Testimony from Gildas , whom I excuse for abusing us , he being of that Nation which was over-run by us ; and probably our spoiling of them might be the Ground of his Quarrel . The Doctor likewise argues against my Citations from Favin and Paulus Aemilius , as speaking onely of an alliance betwixt Achaius and Charles the Great , and nothing as to Fergus , nor the Succession of Kings for 330. years before Christ's Nativity : But , alas ! How trivial is this Reflexion ! For I never adduced these Authours for proving directly , that part of our History relating to Fergus ; but did justly argue , that we must have been setled here much earlier than the Year 503. because about the Year 790. we were a very considerable Nation , and entered into a League with Charles the Great , which these Authours do fully prove . And I likewise produced this Citation , to shew how unwarrantably the Bishop of St. Asaph confined us to some few Countries now erected into the Earldom of Argyle . As to Sigonius , I shall set down some Citations which formerly I forgot to place on the Margin . But it is strange that the Doctor could not find them , though he uses not to search much for what makes against him , His words are , * Eodem anno ( qui fuit 360 post Christum ) Julianus apud Parisios hibernans , Scotos , Pictósque Britannos incursantes audiens , Lupicinum magistrum armorum in Britanniam destinavit . And in another place he says , Anno verò Christi 449. Britanni namque à Pictis & Scotis ( qui Pictis adjuncti partem Insulae ad Aquilonem tenebant ) desperato Romanorum auxilio ad Anglo-Saxones Germaniae populos confugerunt . From which Citations , it is undeniable that Sigonius thought that we were possest of the Northern part of this Isle before the Year 360. and that at that time we were joyned with the Picts , in possessing the same . I cited also Selden's clear Authority , to which nothing is answered . And when I said in the first impression of my Book , that all Historians had own'd our History ; I meant all who wrote before Luddus , and Camden , which I still believe to be true . And yet to prevent quibbling , I ordered the expunging of the word [ All , ] in the second Impression , before I knew of any censures but my own . And now the Doctor produceth onely two , who wrote since their time , and are not of such weight as these cited by me . And if Ubbo Emmius had considered what I now produce , he had at least acknowledged our History before the Year 503 , whereas he does not so much as allow our History till after the Year 829 , which , even the Bishop of St. Asaph will think ridiculous , and which being after the French League is redargued by unquestionable Proofs , neither is Boxhornius special , and has been misled by Usher . Thus , I hope , I have again overturned the Bishop of St. Asaph's two chief Positions relating to us , viz. That there were no Scots in Britain at all , before the Year 300 , which is expresly contrary to what is said by Eumenius , Tertullian , Latinus , Pacatius , Seneca , Spartan and Beda ; and that other Position , viz. That we were onely here by way of Incursion , from the Year 300. till the Year 503. which was all that I did chiefly undertake , and for which , though I needed not to have produced Arguments , but onely answered his Citations , ( for according to Dr. Stillingfleet's own Position , a received History is not to be overturned , but by very convincing Proofs ) yet because I found that neither the Bishop nor the Doctor could bring any Proofs to overturn our History , I have likewise proved , the truth of it as to these Periods of time , by Authorities which I may modestly say very learned men have thought unanswerable , and which the Doctor 's answers ( being so insufficient after the assistance he has got ) shew to be so . CHAP. III. What the Bishop of St. Asaph and Dr. Stillingfleet say against our Histories , from Fergus the first , examined . THough I was not obliged to maintain our History beyond the Year 503. that being sufficient to overturn the two Positions laid down by the Bishop , yet I think it fit and reasonable for me to examine also , what our two learned Adversaries say against our Histories in general , even as to these dark times , in which , neither our Neighbours nor we can get such a sequel and chain of Authours , as these I have produced to prove our being here before the Year 503. Let us then remember ( 1. ) that we are onely obliged to produce Historical , not Mathematical , nor Legal proofs . ( 2. ) That we are onely maintaining our Origine to be from a Neighbour Nation , and very near to the Age of Letters , and that there is nothing in this our Origine , either vain or fabulous , we neither deriving our selves from Aegyptians , Grecians nor Trojans , nor contradicting even in these first dawnings of our History , the uncontroverted Tract of foreign Historians : And so all these long digressions , which the Doctor , to shew his own learning , produces , concerning Berosus , Manetho , Suffridus and others , and particularly of their rejecting their own fabulous descent from Brutus , is absolutely impertinent ; there being nothing that can be alledged in our History to contradict foreign Historians , which I have not taken off in my first Book , without any answer made to it . And though there should be some Errours in the Tract of a History , yet the whole History for that must not be rejected , else no English Historian should be believed more than ours , we seeing in our own Age , matters of Fact , especially relating to our own Countrey , very much mis-represented , to say no worse at this time ; And I desire to know what Warrant Luddus , ou first Adversary , had for asserting the descent from Brutus , and for his promising to prove it ; and yet this Authour passes for a great Critick , and Camden states the debate betwixt Buchanan and him , as the debate betwixt a great Antiquary and a great Poet : Well decided indeed , and this is a great proof of Camden's being an impartial Antiquary , and since most of the old English Historians who wrote their general History , tell of this descent from Brutus , we may controvert in the same way the truth , even of their latter Histories ; because they are founded on their old Histories which assert Brutus , and so contradict the whole Tract of the Roman story as ours do not . ( 3. ) The Bishop and the Doctor do both wrong us , very much , in observing , that all our Neighbour Nations have thrown out the old and fabulous beginnings of their History , but that we still retain our ancient Fables , for any man that reads our History will see that most of our Historians have omitted the old Irish Fables of Gathelus and Scota , and all that long line from Iaphet to Fergus the first , narrated lately again by Ogygia , and much used by our reverend Critick Dr. Stillingfleet in this answer against us . It is acknowledged by the Doctor himself , that Boethius and Ioannes Major do very ingenuously pass from many later things , because they smell of that fabulous age , but the Doctor does charitably make these to be the effects , not of sincerity , but of Craft : so nothing can stand in Judgment before such Criticks . The first thing I say then for our Historians , is , that what they say from Rheuda's time , is not onely made probable , but is undeniably proved by Beda and Eumenius , who do clear that we were here before Iulius Caesar's time ; and if we were , certainly we had Kings , nor did the Genius of our Nation ever encline to a Common-wealth as others have done : Rheuda is made a Scotish King by Beda , Galgacus by Tacitus , Donald by Baronius and the Ecclesiastick Historians , and all this before the Year 300. From Rheuda then to Fergus the first , are but by our Computation 130 years , and to what purpose should so many honest men have conspired , and a whole Nation have concurred so zealously , to maintain a Lye ; so little usefull , as the lengthning our Antiquity , for so short a time as 130 years ? And though there were nothing for it but Oral Tradition , why might it not be received for so short a Period ? and since a Father might have told this to his Son , in an age wherein men lived so long , and especially as to the descent of a Nation , and the race of Kings , of which men are very carefull : to fortifie which , I adduced Livius saying , Per ea tempora rarae literae fuere , una custodia fldelis memoriae rerum gestarum , & quod etiamsi quae in commentariis Pontificum aliisque publicis privatisque erant monumentis , incensâ urbe , pleraeque periere . But because there is a debate betwixt the Doctor and me , concerning the Translation of these words , I urge from common Sense , that Oral Tradition was to be Livius's best Authority , in the beginning of his History , and in many things afterwards ; for though , after several years , the Romans were exact in preserving their History by keeping publick and distinct Records , which the Doctor does needlesly prove , since it was never controverted ; yet certainly in those things which he narrated before the building of Rome he could have no Warrant but Tradition . ( 2. ) After the building of Rome , it 's not to be imagin'd , that a Nation onely given to Wars , would for many years fall upon the exact keeping of Records . ( 3. ) These Records might possibly bear the names of Magistrates , which is all that is proved , and in a Monarchy could have been preserved without these , as to their Kings : For I will undertake there are few here but know who reigned these 130 years by-past among us , though they can neither read nor write : And though private Magistrates might be forgot , yet hardly Kings , and very memorable actions could be so : and I dare say , that in our own , and in most of the considerable Families like ours , not onely the Succession , but the chief Accidents which befell the Family are remembred for two or three hundred years by many hundreds in the Family , though there be no written History of such Families ; so far does interest and affection prompt and help Memory and Tradition to supply Letters . ( 4. ) Though these Records might have preserved names of Magistrates and Treaties , with the conditions thereof , yet what were the occasions of War , the considerable exploits and Strategemes done in them , and many other such matters of Fact , could onely be preserved by Tradition ; for these were never Recorded in any Nation , and could have no Warrant save Oral Tradition , without mentioning the Harangues , and such like Historical matters : so that Livie , as well as Boethius must have wanted flesh to fill Nerves to support it , and colour to adorn this History . ( 5. ) Since the City , and most of these Records were burnt , we have as great reason to doubt of their History as of Ours ; for albeit we cannot now produce the warrants of them after Vastations as remarkable as their burning was , yet we have others who say they saw such Books , even as Dionysius Halicarnassius cites Antiochus Syracusanus , for whose History no more is said by the said Dionysius , but that he took his History out of ancient and undoubted words , and he is but one Authour who says so of himself ; whereas we have many Historians , who say that they with their own eyes saw the Records , out of which they took the things they have . These things being premised , I renew the Argument which I proposed in my first Book for proving the truth of our Histories . Thus , These Histories must be believed , and are sufficiently instructed , in which the Historians who writ them had sufficient Warrants , for what they wrote , and we have fiv● or six Historians , men of untainted Reputation , who when they wrote their Histories , declare that they wrote the same from Authentick Records and Warrants , which , being a matter of Fact , is sufficiently proved from the Testimony of so many honest Witnesses , who declared they saw good Warrants for what they wrote : and if this be controverted , what can be true in humane Affairs ; or why should we believe Livius , Iosephus or others , since the Authours which they cite are not now extant ? This is all the subject can allow , and what the learned Bishop Pearson and Heylin think not onely sufficient , but all that is possible to be done in such Cases , the one , proving by my Method and Arguments , that St. Ignatius's Epistles are Genuine , and the other , that there was such a King in England as Lucius ; and that he introduced into it the Christian Religion , in which the Doctor agrees with him , against the Bishop of St. Asaph , and I hope our Authours will at least give a deference to the opinion of two such emnent English Divines . The Laws also of all Nations allow , that when Papers are lost , the tenour of them may be proved , providing a probable way of losing of them to be instructed , which the Lawyers of all Nations call Casus amissionis . But so it is , we assign two remarkable occasions and sufficient reasons , to instruct this Casus amissionis . The first in the Reign of Edward the first , who industriously did take away our Records . Which in the process before the Pope , we offered to prove by most famous Witnesses in presence also of the said King , who , by his not contradicting , did acknowledge this matter of Fact. The second in the time of our Reformation , in which , the blind Zeal of some , and the interested Avarice of others , prevailed with them to destroy the Records of our Monasteries . And so far are these accidents true , not onely in History , but in our sad Experience , that we want in matter of private right , what might have been furnisht us both from our Records , and Monasteries : And so it were ridicuous to think , that we abstracted those vouchers upon design ; especially seeing long after that , and till Luddus time , no Nation , nor Authour , ever controverted our History ; and I Challenge the Doctor to produce any such Authour , as certainly they would have done , if the matters of Fact had been either ridiculous in themselves , or inconsistent with the tract of other Histories . Of this fundamental Argument the Doctor takes no notice , and makes no answer to it ; but I , to fortifie this Argument , having insisted upon the probability of what our Historians relate , and the Reputation of the relaters , he runs out in an answer to both these , to which I shall make a Reply : But I conceive nothing can take off the strength of my Argument , except he either prove , that there could have been no such Warrants , and that what is related is in it self inconsistent with the History of other Nations , or that he had produced to us good Authours contemporary with these things which he denies , and we assert , and had shewed that these Authours deny these Transactions , or deliver things inconsistent with them ; neiof which he has done , nor can doe . The first general Ground insisted on by the Doctor , is , that we have no Historians who wrote in the time in which the things related were alledged to have been acted ; to which it is answered , as formerly , that an Authour writing from sufficient Records , is as much to be believed as if he had lived in the time ; and that is our Case : And I again renew my Query , if the Doctor thinks that Dr. Burnet's Book of the History of the Reformation , should not be believed in the next Age though the Warrants of it were burnt , which is very possible ; and had it not been great folly , and impudence , in five or six honest men to have separately written , that they and each of them had the said Records , when they wrote from them ? And though the Doctor insinuates that this has been formerly done by one or two which he cites , yet there were not many concurring there , as here ; and it is a very different thing , for one Authour to say that he wrote from such a Record , a particular passage , in which none was concerned , and for many worthy Men to say in their Epistles to their Kings and Nation , that what they wrote was true from the Records which they had given them from Monasteries and other publick Records , and to appeal to them as then extant : and certainly many would be very desirous to see these Records in the time of the writing these Histories , especially seeing the first Historians who appear in Print have both Rivals , and Enemies , as well as curious Criticks , and the Monasteries themselves , and the Keepers of the pretended Records , could not but have known the Forgery , if any such had been . Or durst so many ingenious Men , though they had been careless of their Conscience , have trusted their Reputation in so nice and quick-sighted an Age , as that , wherein all of them wrote , to the discretion of so many who could have discover'd the Cheat ? Nor do we find , even from what the Doctor himself writes , that the single Testimony of these who pretend to have written from Records , is rejected , except where what they say is redargued , as inconsistent with other uncontroverted Histories , and Authours ; or narrate things , in themselves incredible , as is evident from the instances of Humbald , Geoffery , Annius and others : so that to reject our Histories , lest the World should be obliged to believe these , is no solid , nor just way of reasoning . But the Bishop himself , to shun this , did with a greater shew of reason urge that our Historians were but to be accounted as one , since they followed one another in a File : But I did fully take off this , by proving that each of them saw some few of these Records , and Warrants , a part ; and that they differed enough , to shew that they were in no Conspiracy : and this I hold as acknowledged , since the Doctor returns no answer to it . That there could be no sufficient Warrants for our History , from the Annals of our Monasteries , is contended , because the Monasteries themselves are much later than Fergus the First , who is to be proved by these Annals . But to this it is answered , that Iona and Abercorn , are Monasteries acknowledged by Beda , as long prior to Beda's time ; and though the Monasteries were later , yet they might have Records as old as Fergus , for this is very probable in it self , and consequently ought to be believed , since it is proved by famous Witnesses . And whereas it is answered , that bare Probability is not sufficient to sustain a History , but the Annals themselves out of which it is taken must be produced : My return to this is , that if bare Probability were onelyproposed , the answer is good , but it is not so when I say the thing is probable of it self , and is actually proved by Witnesses beyond all exception . And whereas , to overturn this , it is contended from the Irish Annals , that Fergus , whom we call the second , was our first King. To this I need say no more , but that I proved in my former Book , that all the accounts which the Irish gave of our entry into this Kingdom , are inconsistent , and contradictory one to another , and to which the Doctor has made no answer , and therefore they are not to be believed in themselves ; but much less are they to be believed when contrary to the Annals of all our Monasteries , attested by famous Witnesses who saw them , and in a matter in which we were more concerned than they : and so it is probable we would have been more carefull to preserve it's Memory , ( 2. ) I have proved in the first Chapter , not onely by the assertions of our own Historians , but by all the Historians who speak of us , both without , and within the Isle ; that we had Kings long before Fergus the second , and that we had even Christian Kings ; and it is almost impossible , that our Monasteries could have been mistaken in that , or at least that they would not have condescended , who was the other Christian King , if Donald was not : And at least , our Adversaries should be put to prove who was our First Christian King , or acquiesce in him whom we assign . And it is also very strange , that not onely we , but the Romish Church it self should be mistaken ; they being very positive in concurring with us , whereas no other Nation nor Church condescends , as I have said , upon any other First Christian King , or Authours to prove it . And to conclude this Period , I must say that it is wonderfull , that positive Witnesses , that say they saw old Annals , fortified by their Histories both at home and abroad , Pagan and Christian , should be less believed than the Ballads and Traditions of another Nation , who have none of these advantages : That Beda should be of less credit than Iocelin , and Legends , in which I dare say the Bishop and Doctor believe but very little , if any thing at all , save this ; and why are not the Legends of St. Congall and St. Brendan , who mention the settlement of St. Fergus the first , as good as Iocelin , and others , produced to prove that Fergus the second was our first King ; especially seeing they likewise concur with Beda in his Rheuda ? Whereas the other contradict him , and that our Histories which have rejected Gathelus and Simon Brek , because that too great Antiquity is improbable , should be overturned by those who positively own a Lineal , well proved descent from Iaphet , and condescend upon days , and months , and that our Historians which are many , and very much esteemed over all Europe , should be overturned by the Authority of Rhimes , and rags of History , which no Man adventured to form into any Body whatsoever , till of late some Specimen is given , in which , amongst other rare Marks of veracity , our League with France was alledged to have been made with their Kings ; as if France understood as little their own Leagues , as they would have Rome to understand their own Conversion ; or that all the Nations of Europe should have been mistaken , as to this palpable Point . I reflect not on the Publishers of the Manuscript of the Abbacy of Melros , printed at Oxford ; for I honour every thing that comes from that learn'd Society , in a special manner ; but it is no reflexion on them , to say that we have another , much fuller , in what makes for Scotland , though it could not be so exact as the other Monasteries , since it was ofttimes of old , under the Saxons , who would certainly lessen what relates to us ; and thus the fault lay in the Copy , and not in the Publishers , for the Authour of that Manuscript calls Beda our Countreyman , so he must have been then our enemy ; but however it begins not with Alpin , as the Doctor alledges , though I mention that , because he is not mentioned in the Oxford Edition : for it declares , that it is to continue where the Reverend Beda left , and so is a proof of our Nation , and History , from that time , and the differences of that from ours shall be printed , and I have at present printed these few . And though Buchanan had the Books of Pluscardin and Pasley , yet it does not follow that therefore the best and most part of the Books of our Monasteries were not carried to Rome , or destroyed , and so cannot be recovered from Rome ; and how can it be imagin'd , that those who burnt all our Magnificent Churches , would have spar'd a few Books , written by Monks , and which were so little esteem'd in those times amongst our Zealots ? The Doctor , in proving there was no such Authour as Veremund , forgets that I have prov'd by two famous Witnesses , a Lord of the Session , and a Principal of a College , ( both learned , and devout men , much esteem'd abroad where they travell'd ) that they had seen the Book ; and here is no bare probability . And I hope it is uncontroverted , that the depositions of two Witnesses cannot be taken away by probabilities ; nor can it be alledged that Chambres followed Boethius's faith in this , for he says he had it , and he cites many things material out of Veremund , nor does the Learned Doctor Pearson prove any other way the truth of St. Ignatius's Epistles , than by producing the Testimonies of Origin and others , who have cited passages out of those Letters , as Letters written by St. Ignatius , though none of these Authours liv'd in the age with St. Ignatius ; and so they did not legally prove that these Letters were written by him which are not in Boethius . But however , let us a little examine the Doctor 's probabilities . The first is , that many have forg'd Authours , as Annius : good ! Ergo , these two learned Men did it ; à posse ad esse non valet consequentia . ( 2. ) We have nam'd other Authours , who are not now extant : Ergo , Veremund never was : good again ! and if Fordon had been lost , or Elphinstoun , whom we have not yet seen , such Authours had been both denied , and so had that learned Manuscript written by Craig , which we have but lately recovered . ( 3. ) Fordon cites not Veremund , though he cites many others ; This is such another consequence , as if I should argue against the Doctor , that Boethius cites not Fordon ; ergo , Fordon never was . But I chuse rather to argue thus ; the Bishop and Doctor both think that Boethius did onely transcribe Fordon , and yet he never cited him , which they think he did , that he might have the honour of being thought our first general Historian himself : And yet it is prov'd , there was such a Book as Fordon , then extant ; and therefore I conclude , by the same reason , that Fordon transcribed much of Veremund , and therefore conceal'd his Authour . ( 4. ) Bishop Elphinstoun mentions him not ; but to this I answer , that the Manuscript is not ours , and so may be gelt ; but I conceive , by the Doctor 's Epitome of it , that it is it self but an abridgment of Fordon , and therefore he mentions not Veremund , because Fordon had not mentioned him , and it was very ordinary in those days , to write Epitomes of Fordon , some whereof are extant with us , and Boethius tells us that Elphinstoun never wrote an History , but onely prepar'd some materials for one ; and if he wrote a History , here is again another Historian , who being a devout and learned Bishop , must be thought not to have written without sufficient warrants . Though then probabilities could overturn the deposition of Witnesses , yet these have no weight , but what the Doctor 's Authority gives them . And though it were prov'd , that Baker , Baloeus , and the other English Historians whom I cite , had not seen Veremund , yet surely they thought it not onely probable , but certain , that there was such an Authour . Against Fordon it is urg'd , that he mentions not our first Kings from Fergus the First ; to Fergus the Second ; and that he confesses he knew not how long any of these Kings after Fergus reign'd ; and from this also it is concluded that we have no Manuscripts to instruct the same . Nam , says he , ad plenum scripta non reperimus , To which it is answered , that this is a great argument of his ingenuity , for if he could have written without sufficient warrants , why could he not have made up this , as well as the rest ? But the true reason is ; that the Warrants did then lie in the Monastery , especially at Icolmekill , where Veremund's History was likewise kept . And it is clear , by Boethius's dedication to the King , that he thanked his Majesty for ordering that these should be delivered to him : and if the Doctor should at present write such another Dedication to the King , thanking him for letting him have the use of the Alexandrian MSS. of the Bible out of his Bibliotheque , could any man afterwards think that there were no such MSS ? and that the Warrants of the Histories us'd so to be kept , as not to be got without publick Authority , is clear by the custome of Nations acknowledg'd by the Doctor out of Livy , and asserted by me in my First Book . As to our Nation , from Paulus Iovius , who was not interested in us , and consequently , it was no wonder that Fordon , who was but a mean Priest , could not have Veremund and the other Warrants which were necessary for filling up the History of our Kings , between the two Fergusses , which Boethius himself could not recover without the King's command , the Treasurer's assistance , and his own great expence and labour : and I know not whether it would not have been a greater villany and folly in him , to have asserted all this , if it had not been true , himself and all Persons interested being alive , or a proof of Fordon's ingenuity , in not filling up what was deficient through want of the Warrants . Against Boethius , it is urg'd by the Doctor , that he could not have had Veremund , and other sufficient Warrants from Icolmekill , as is pretended , because his History is printed in the Year 1526. and he had not these Records from Icolmekill , till the Year 25. so that the History could not be compil'd , printed and revis'd in a year . To which it is answered , that Hector Boethius is acknowledg'd to have had a better invention , than to have forg'd so improbable a falsity , especially in a thing he might have contriv'd as he pleas'd , and in which the honour of the Nation was not concern'd , and as to which , the King , Treasurer and Monks of Icolmekill could have controll'd him ; but this is easily reconcil'd , without a miracle , for certainly Boethius was writing his History long before he got these Records , and doing what he could , as Fordon had done , without them before ; and having at last got them , after the third message , Tertio Nuncio , which shews he was writing before , he might have easily added from the beginning through the whole Book , what was to be expected from Veremund , and others , and which , I dare say , the laborious Dr. Stillingfleet could have done in a month , and there was time enough from the beginning of 25. to the end of 26. ( as we may well enough suppose ) being near two years to have done all this ; and this was a far less miracle than for the Bishop and Doctor to have sent Palladius from Rome to Ireland , to preach there long enough to have a sufficient proof of the Irish being obstinate , and to despair of success , to return , and to die in a Countrey of the Picts all in one year : and St. Patrick , who was not then present , but was in France , to have got the news of this death , to have formed the resolution , and to have gone to Rome , and prevail'd with the Pope to ordain him , and all this in the small space betwixt the 25th of December , and the 6th of April following : at which time the Pope died ; whose preceding sickness could not but have retarded that Affair . I admire the Doctor , for insisting on the Printer's mistake , not mine , in calling Turgot , Archbishop of Saint Andrews , for I call him , p. 26. Edition the first , Bishop of St. Andrews , and so the calling him Archbishop afterwards could not have been ignorance in me , and the Printers thought all Bishops of St. Andrews must be Archbishops ; and by the mistake of the same kind , without any observation , Martial is made to have liv'd in Augustus's time , whereas I plac'd him in Domitian's , and sent a Copy so corrected , in print , to the Bishop of St. Asaph , and the half of our own printed Copies are right in this , but in the Second Edition , I expung'd these , and some other literal faults , before I knew that the Doctor or any else was to write an answer : and , I am glad the Doctor is so fashionable a Gentleman , as to understand Martial better than I do : nor would I have insisted on the mistakes about Fordon , and Dempster , if these had not been material to my purpose , whereof the one is not yet answered , and the other not at all notic'd by the Doctor . I urg'd upon this head also , that the Sacred History was for many hundreds of years preserv'd by Oral Tradition : for though the Iews and we acknowledge , that the Scripture was penn'd by Divine Inspiration , yet in arguing against Pagans , we must make this probable by other Arguments . And the Doctor , in his Origines Sacrae , ( which Book I esteem very much ) uses the same Common Places with me , and amongst other things tells us , that men lived so long in those days that they were able to transmit Historical Relations with much more certainty than now . And Iosephus , for proving the Sacred History against Appion , cites Foreign Authours that are all lost now , and yet we believe there were such Historians . And albeit afterwards the Priests did preserve their Histories with great exactness , yet that way of preserving History by Records , took not place for many ages . And though our Monasteries are not to be compared with their Priesthood , yet they were sufficient , especially in these sincerer times , to preserve our Histories . And though what they preserv'd is not to be believ'd with a Divine belief , yet they ought to have an Historical one allowed them , especially since they are fortified by the probability of what they preserv'd , and the concurrence of as much Roman History , as France or Spain can pretend to . Nor are the Citations from our old Laws to be contemn'd : for these at least might have been preserved by practice , as Lycurgus's Laws . And it is undeniable that Skene , our famous Register and Antiquary , did within these 100 years declare , He had old Manuscripts bearing these our old Laws , though they are now lost , without weakning our esteem or observance of them , and he has printed many of them . And though Historians might have adventur'd to print some Historical Passages without sufficient warrant , yet neither they , nor our Register , durst have adventur'd to print Laws , nor would our Governours have suffered this , without sufficient warrants . And we must be believ'd in what concerns us , and us onely . Nor does it follow that because the Laws of Alexander the Third were lost ; therefore the Macalpin Laws might not have been preserv'd , they being the foundations of the Rights and Successions of our Kings . And therefore , as they were preserv'd with more care by us , they should have been attack'd with less zeal by the Doctor , for his Monarch's sake , whose partiality I tax in this , and not his disloyalty . And to conclude this period , in opposition to the Doctor , I do think that the most fundamental of all Laws were in all Nations preserv'd by mere Tradition , and are not written to this very day , save when some accident forces it , as in our late Statute for the Succession . Which Position , since able Lawyers must acknowledge , I do not contend for it with a Divine , who seems here to be out of his sphere , and more dogmatical than his Profession will well allow . But why may not our Laws be as old as about 800 years ; since Selden and Church-hill tells us , that there are Laws yet extant in London , older than any the Romans had ? And the Doctor 's Raillery , that probably these Laws were in another Chest at Icolmekill with the MSS. which Boeth says Fergus brought from the sacking of Rome in the time of Alaric , to be contemn'd : for as great Criticks , as the Doctor , believe this to be true , as one may see by Morhosius's learn'd Book de Patavinitate Livianâ . From this received Principle also I conclude justly , that since Lycurgus's Laws , and the old Laws of other Nations have been preserv'd , most of them without writing , and by mere Tradition , why may not the same Tradition be trusted for the Names , and for some general and probable actions of our Kings for 130 years , viz. from Rheuda , to Fergus the First ? or why might not our Monasteries have received these Traditions from such as lived nearer these times than Gildas did , to the first planting of Christianity in Britain ? And yet his , and other Ecclesiastick Traditions , are generally receiv'd , and acknowledg'd , and founded on , by our severe Doctor , and Churchmen ought to be tender of them , because without these , Fanaticks and Sectarians might press them very much . Another ground whereby I endeavoured to render it probable that there were such Warrants as these declar'd to have been seen by our Historians , was , that what they declar'd was probable , and ordinary , for our Countrey , and other Northern Countries , as Ireland , and Domestick Historians call'd Sanachies , and Bards , who as Poets preserv'd their Histories . This Varaeus observes in Ireland , and Powell in Wales . * Bardi custodiebant etiam Nobilium insignia & Genealogias . And in these were probably the memory of the Names of our Kings , and their considerable Actions preserv'd . Nor can it be imagin'd , that a Family can rise without getting their Lands from some Kings ; nor could they have done considerable Actions , except in their service : and so in remembring their own Genealogies and Actions , could not omit to record those of their Kings . And Livie , in the place cited , † tells us , that the Histories of Private Families were us'd as the Warrants of the General History , and those Luddus does cry up as the Warrants he us'd . Nor does Buchanan decry them , except in opposition to Luddus his using them as proofs of these positions onely , that are inconsistent with the Roman Contemporary , and other Histories . And in so far I acknowledge they ought not to be received ; but that cannot be alledged against us . I urg'd also that it was very probable , that we had ancient Written Histories ; because we had the Druids amongst us who were Priests under Paganism , and they are acknowledged by Caesar to have had the use of Letters . And though Caesar does observe that they were averse from consigning to Letters the Mysteries of their Religion , yet it does not follow that therefore they us'd them not , in preserving the memory of their Kings and memorable Actions . The one proceeded from a design to keep their Mysteries from being subjected to an examination , which they knew these Principles could not bear ; and to conciliate a veneration to their Religion from the ignorance of the Admirers , as Varaeus also confesses * . But without the other , Letters had been altogether useless : for in what could they have employed them , if not in this ? And since Caesar † is positive , that they us'd the Graecian Letters , in privatis publicisque rationibus , what can be meant by publicae rationes , save their Historical account of things ? And this seems the more probable , that many of our Towns and Ports especially , have Greek names . And to the Doctor 's difficulty how the Druids could have preserv'd their Chronology in these Ancient Times , I answer from Pliny , who tells , that they numbred time by the course of the Moon , and not of the Sun * : which proves , that very anciently they used Chronology . Nor does it follow , that because some of the Druids are said to have oppos'd the conversion of their People to Christianity , therefore others of them were not zealous for their conversion : even as though the Ancient Philosophers were generally severe Opposers of the settlement of Christianity , yet many of them , when converted , were eminent Lights in their time . And therefore I may conclude , that since it is very probable , that our Predecessours would be curious to preserve the Names of their first Kings , and the way of their first settlement : and since they had Letters wherein these might have been preserved : therefore it is probable that they were accordingly preserved . And that these Traditions and Records , as well as the Histories of Private Families relating these were consigned to the custody of the Monasteries with us , as elsewhere . So that since four or five Worthy Historians declare , They saw these each a-part , their Testimonies concurring in a probable matter of fact must be as sufficient , as if the Warrants were yet extant ; for since these would prove and satisfy in a Legal Trial , much more ought they to be allowed in an Historical one , quod erat probandum . CHAP. IV. Our Authours vindicated in the accounts they give of the Genealogy of our Kings . THE Doctor being convinced from these undeniable Proofs , that neither Fordon , nor Boethius did forge the ancient Genealogy of our Kings , which the Bishop of St. Asaph did positively assert , but that they had Warrants and Authorities before their times ; He falls upon a new device , and contends that Boethius did insert many things contrary to the account of the Genealogy preceding him . For as to the particular Genealogy from Fergus the First to Fergus the Second , he hath no account of this from Fordon , who hath ( as the Doctor says ) professed , that he could find nothing particular concerning them ; though he cites several Chronicles ; and though Fordon mentions an old High Land Gentleman , a Genealogist , who gives an account of the first Line betwixt the two Ferguses ; yet the Genealogy by him given differs from that , which is owned by Boeth and Buchanan , both in the number , and in the names of our Kings . And this is alledged to have been done of purpose , to put in Regents not owned by the Genealogists , and to support the Law of incapacity , and that he might get mention made of Reutha , Galdus , Caratacus and Donald . And the Genealogist thus having extended the first Line , doth as much shorten the second Line , betwixt Fergus the Second and Alexander the Third ; whereof the Doctor endeavours to give particular Instances . So that the Modern Historians had added more Kings in the Race from Fergus the Second to Alexander the Third , than are contained in the Genealogy betwixt Fergus the First and Fergus the Second . And , upon the matter , the Genealogist hath made no more Kings in both Races , than the Historians make in the last Race from Fergus the Second . And therefore the Doctor is as culpable in shortning the Royal Line , as the Bishop of St. Asaph . He adds also , that Fordon mentions another Genealogy of St. David , made at the time of his death , which ought not to be attributed to Baldredus , but to Cardinal Walter Wardlaw , which exactly agrees with that of the Highlander , except in the spelling of some few names , from Fergus the second upwards , to Fergus the first . But the latter part of the Genealogy from St. David to Fergus the second , being corrupted before Fordon's time , he would not have it stand in Record against his History , but cut it off with an &c. from David to Fergus ; which Caution he forgot , when he did specially insert the Highlander's Genealogy from Alexander the third , to Fergus the second . This is the meaning , as near as I can understand , of the Doctor 's words , being in themselves somewhat perplexed . But the Doctor takes notice of a third Genealogy in Fordon , which supplies , in some measure , the defects of that of King David , and it is the Succession of Kenneth , the first Monarch of Scotland ; and there he takes notice of the difference betwixt the Genealogy and our Historians . For he acknowledgeth that he doth agree with the Highland Genealogy , except that it hath Dongare the Son of Donald Braick , which the Highlander doth omit , and makes onely ten Kings betwixt Fergus and Kenneth , whereas our Historians make twenty eight . In Answer to this objection , I shall follow the method of the Highland Genealogist , which proceeds ascending from Alexander the third , and the Nature of the objection it self , which insists most upon the difference in the Genealogist from our Historians as to the second Line , there being no objection made as to the first , except as to some small difference in the names ; and the onely considerable difference is betwixt Finnanus and Caratacus , which will easily be cleared in answer to the objection against the second Line . And though the Race and Line be the same with Fergus downwards ; yet with the Doctor we shall make an Imaginary distinction of first and second Race : And first ; as I applaud the Doctor , who hath better thoughts of Fordon ( than the Bishop had , who asserted him to have dreamed the History of our Kings ) that he was so cautious , as not to set down the accounts that were imparted to him otherwise than in his sleep , because he could not give a full account of them ; so I must likewise vindicate Boeth , who in his History hath neither differed from , nor contradicted Fordon , nor any other of these mentioned Genealogies . For as to Fordon , though he gives not a particular account of the Names , times and Actions of all the Kings betwixt the Ferguses , yet he doth not profess , that he could find nothing in particular concerning them , as appears by the words cited by the Doctor himself ; Sed & horum Sigillatim distinguere tempora principatuum ad praesens omittimus , nam ad plenum scripta non reperimus . For here he tells the full number of our Kings , and five more , which may be true by taking in of Fergus's Father and Grand-father , and some other three Collaterals omitted by other Historians ; and that they reigned in the Isle , and not in Ireland . Onely he forbears at present to distinguish the time of their Reigns , not having then gotten a full account of them , which he seems thereby to insinuate he expected before he finished his Book , wherein he was prevented by death . But as he left Materials for the last and great part of his Book , so he might have increased the first part of his Book in distinguishing these particular Reigns . But it is likely , these Authours he cites , viz. Legenda Brendani , Congalli , Grossum caput , and the several Chronica , had nothing concerning these Kings ; or that Fordon himself had found nothing particular concerning them , when he knew so well their Genealogy , both upon the occasion of the death of St. David , and the Coronation of King Alexander ? And as he gives the account of the most considerable Persons , as Fergus , Reuther , Eugenius ; so he distinguisheth their times , and tells how long the whole Kings reigned , and gives Disticks containing the Periods of their Reigns : Albion in terris Rex primus germine Scotus Illorum turmis rubri tulit arma Leonis Fergusius fulvo Ferchard rugientis in arvo , Christum trecentis tricenis praefuit annis . And in the place cited by the Doctor , he asserts , that the forty five Kings were ejusdem generis & gentis , and Fergus's return is set down : Ad natale solum properat relevare jacentes , Rex fessos regni cespite sospes adit : Intrepidus propria pandens vexilla Leonis , Terruit occursu quem fera nulla ferox . Ocyus advenit , fuerat quae turbine diro Subdita plebs X quater & tribus haec Congaudens patrio [ Regi servire , parata Ad libertatem quicquid in orbe volat . And again , Fergusius universas Regni regiones , cis citraque vadum Scoticum à patribus ab antiquo possessas , de muro lapideo , viz. & Inchgaell ad Insulas Orcadas sub sua composuit ditione . Doth the Doctor think , that this was to profess , that he could find nothing concerning them ? and that after him , Boeth could make no distinct and particular account of that Succession , unless he feigned them for some partial end ? But to come to the Highland Genealogist , there is no difference betwixt him and our Historians : for though his number be fewer than that in our Records and Histories , yet the reason is , because our Historians mention all that did Reign , whether by Right or by Usurpation , or whether in the Direct or Collateral Line ; the Genealogist doth ascend from Alexander the Third from Son to Father in the direct Line , considering that Line onely , whereof that King was descended , amongst whom some were never Kings . The Genealogist begins , Alexander the Son of Alexander , the Son of William , the Son of Henry , the Son of David . Here the Doctor objects , that Malcolm the Fourth the Maiden mentioned by our Historians , is omitted , and Henry placed for him . But this was very reasonable : for St. David had onely one Son Henry Earl of Northumberland , who died before his Father : and so was never King , but left three Sons ; Malcolm the fourth , who succeeded his Grand-father , and was called Maiden ; he never married , and he had for his Successour William his second Brother , Grand-father to King Alexander , in whom also the Race of that Brother failed . And then from David Earl of Huntingtoun , the third Brother by the Families of Bruce and Stuart , the Royal Race is continued in a direct Line till King Iames the Seventh , who now Reigns . So then , if the Genealogist had said , that William was Son to his Brother Malcolm the Maiden , and not Son to Henry his Father , instead of agreeing with our Histories , he had both contradicted them and common Sense and Reason . The Doctor next complains , that betwixt Malcolm , Canmore and St. David four of our Kings are omitted , and , we say , very justly for the same Reason : for Donald the Seventh was Malcolm's Brother , and Duncan his Bastard Son , none of whom had right to Reign . And though Malcolm had two elder Sons , Edgar and Alexander the First , who did successively Reign , yet they having no Children of their own , the Succession did devolve upon St. David the youngest Son. The third Objection is , that betwixt Duncan , and Malcolm Canmore the Historians put Machaboeus , whom the Genealogist omits , and very reasonably : for he was a Collateral by Dovada Second Daughter to Malcolm the Second , and usurped the Succession before Malcolm Canmore , who was Son of Duncan . and was great Grand-child to Malcolm the Second by his eldest Daughter Beatrix , whom the Genealogist inserts , though she was never a Queen , because by her the Succession was continued . The Doctor 's fourth and main Objection is , that betwixt Malcolm the Second , and Kenneth the Son of Alpin , the Genealogist inserts none , whereas our Historians insert thirteen ; viz. Donald the Fifth , Constantine Second , Ethus Sirnamed Alipes , Gregory the Great , Donald the Sixth , Constantine the Third . Malcolm the First , Indulphus , Duffus , Culenus , Kenneth the Third , Constantine the Fourth , Grimus . Here indeed I acknowledge the Doctor hath discovered an Errour ; but I think it must be of the Writer , or at worst in the Highland Genealogist his Memory or Expressions . And it is very happy , that it hath fallen out in this place , otherwise Fordon as well as Boeth might be suspected of partiality , or that they inserted these Kings to serve their own ends : For even the Doctor 's worthy Antiquaries Ubbo Emmius and Boxhornius , who have deserved so well of him , because they are most injuriously extravagant ; as to the Antiquity of our Kings , do admit the truth of this Genealogy , after Kenneth who subdued the Picts . There are four indeed here omitted in the direct Line ; Constantine the second Son to Kenneth the Second , Donald the Sixth , Malcolm the First , Kenneth the Third , Malcolm the Second's Father : Besides nine Collateral , viz. Donald the fifth Brother to Kenneth the Second , Ethus Alipes , Constantine the Second's Brother , Gregory Son to Dongallus , Constantine the Third Son to Ethus , Indulphus Constantine the Third his Son , Duffus , Malcolm the First his eldest Son , Culenus , Indulphus his Son , Constantine the Fourth Culenus his Son , and Grimus , Duffus his Son , who were all Collateral to Malcolm the Second . I shall give a very probable account of the mistake of the Genealogist in this place . We see that it is twice Kenneth and Malcolm ; Kenneth the Second and Malcolm the First , and Kenneth the Third , who was Father to Malcolm the Second . The Transcriber hath thought , he had transcribed the First Kenneth and Malcolm , and Constantine , and Donald that were betwixt them , and so hath omitted them , and proceeded to Kenneth the Third , who was Father to Malcolm the Second . As in reading or writing , if two Lines begin with one word , the Reader or Writer ordinarily omitteth one of the Lines by mistake . And as this was no design in Fordon , so it could not be ignorance : for he describes particularly all those omitted Kings , and there is also a particular Genealogy of them subjoyn'd to the end of Fordon's Book in the Genealogy of King Iames the Second . And if any man make a History of persons , and draw out a Summary of their Genealogy , if there be any difference , the Summary must be regulated by the History , and not the History by the Summary . The Doctor 's fifth Objection is , that betwixt Alpin and Achaius the Historians put Convallus and Dongallus ; and very reasonably , because Convallus was Fergus's third Son , and Dongallus was Solvathius's Son , and so Collateral , to shew the exactness of our Historians , as well in the Collateral , as in the direct Line . The degree of Proximity of every Person is proved by our Historians from Kenneth the Second till Fergus the Second . The next Objection is , the difference betwixt the Genealogist and our Historians , from King Othabin Son of Aydan , whom Fordon calls Ethodius bind , and our Historians , Eugenius ( a Grand difference indeed ) and Achaius the Second Son of Etfin , who was Son of Eugenius the Seventh , who was Son of Findan who was never King , Son of Eugenius the Fifth , Son of Dongard never King , second Son to Donald Braik , second Son to Eugenius bin : For here there is both difference of Kings , and many omitted . It is true , that here there is the like Errour committed in transcribing with the former : for the Genealogist , betwixt Eugenius the Seventh , ( whom he calls Ethac ) and Donald Braik , he omits Dongard , Eugenius the Fifth ; and Fordon's Genealogy of Kenneth the Great , to Fergus the Second , mentions Dongard , but omits Eugenius and Findan . Which errour of the Writer seems to have proceeded , because there are two of the name of Eugenius so near together , that he thought , when he wrote Eugenius , he had written all that had preceded Eugenius the Seventh , and did the more easily forget Dongard and Findan , because they were not so well known , as never having been Kings . But the mistake cannot be interpreted to be a design , seeing there is no advantage in it , and it is in omitting and not in adding any that never were of the right Line , and falls happily out , where our Antiquity is not questioned by any but by Ubbo Emmius , and Boxhornius . For even Iocelin and St. Asaph do acknowledge the Scots to have been setled under Aydan mentioned by Beda , as the Father of this Ethodius bind . And the Doctor himself does settle this Scepticism concerning the Original of the Settlement of the Scots in Britain under Aydan , in the beginning of the Seventh Century ; but is uncertain , if , or how much longer before that time . And it could not be ignorance in Fordon , who describes all the particular Reigns of these Kings . And in the opinion of Boeth , Findan is not omitted ; for he makes Eugenius the Seventh not to be Grand-child to Eugenius the Fifth by Findan , but immediately Son to Eugenius the Fifth . The rest of these intervening Kings were Collaterals , viz. Ferchard the Second Son of Ferchard the First , Malduine eldest Son to Donald Braik , Eugenius the Sixth Ferchard's second Son , Amberkelethus Findan's eldest Son , Murdach his Son , Eugenius the Eighth and Solvathius , these four lineally descending from one another in the Collateral Line ; Fergus the Third eldest Son of Etfin and elder Brother to Achaius , Ethas , or Ethachi , or whether Etfin or Ethafind . But I cannot remark , that the Genealogist calls Ethafind Son to Ethdre , but he calls him Son to Ethachi ; or that the Genealogist calls Eugenius Ethac . Indeed the Genealogist calls him Ethachi , whom Fordon in the Genealogy of Kenneth calls Eugenius . But these are idle remarks . His Objection betwixt Fergus the Second and Eugenius the Fourth is , that the Genealogist makes Dongall to succeed Fergus , and , leaves out Eugenius the Second ; very reasonable indeed , because Eugenius the Second though eldest Son , had no Succession , and to Dongard Cobren succeeds , and to him Aydan the Father of Eugenius . And there are left out from amongst our Kings mentioned by our Historians Constantine the First , whom the Doctor calls Constantius , because he was Dongard's younger Brother , and Congallus Dongard's eldest Son , because he did not continue the Line , his Line being extinct after the Death of Eugenius the Third , Convallus and Kinnatell his three Sons , and Kenneth the first Son to Convallus his Grand-child . But the Doctor makes no mention of Kenneth , but in place of him saith , that Conranus is omitted by the Genealogist , as if Conranus and Cobrenus might not pass for one . Against the first Race , his Objections are much lighter , and so I shall not be so special in giving Answer . His noticing the difference of names is very pretty , betwixt Arnidal and Dornadill , Rowen and Rether , not Nothatus , as the Doctor mistakes ( for Nothatus being Dornadill's Brother a Collateral , he is left by the Genealogist as such ) and Rutha for Reuda , and Ther for Thereus , and Rosine for Iosin , and Corbre for Corbred , and Daradiamore for Dardanus , and that Corbre's Sirname of Galdus was forgot ; and Luthach for Lugtacus , and Mogalama for Mogallus , and Coner for Conarus , Ethach for Ethodius , and Fiachrach for Satrahell , and Athirkin for Athirco , Findachar for Findochus , Thrinkline for Crathilinthus , Fencormach for Fincormachus , Romaich for Romachus , and Enegussa , which the Doctor acknowledgeth is plainly Angusianus , though it be not so plain as many others of the rest he Quarrels , Fethelmech for Fethelmachus , and Engusafich and Etheat for Eugenius and Ethodius , Erthus for Eirch . And so to have named this Objection is to refute it , being the difference onely betwixt a Latine Termination and a Vulgar , betwixt a Highland and a Lowland . And if he will take the pains to compare , how these same Names are written in Fordon , and how in Major , he will find the like difference . And if he will not rest satisfied , he is referred to Flahertie in his Preface for a fuller Answer . But Feritharis and King Donald , the first Christian King , and Nathalocus , and other two Donalds are excluded by this ancient Genealogists ; and very reasonably , because Feritharis was Brother to King Fergus the First ; and Donald , because he was Brother to Satrael . Nathalocus was an Usurper , concerning whose Contingency of bloud , our Historians generally make no mention ; all the Collaterals proved by Boeth * , Buchanan † and Lesly ‖ . And the Doctor himself in his Preface acknowledgeth , that Nathalocus and Donald were Usurpers , and so could not be mentioned in the Genealogy of the right Line ; Donald the Third called of the Isles , an Usurper , and Donald the Second Brother to Findoch . And what though the Genealogist by mistake hath called Rosin the Son of Ther , when he was his Brother ? and Ethodius the Son of Eugenius , when he was his Brother ? If the Genealogist had mentioned all our Kings that did Reign , and had called the next always Son to the former King , he had committed this Errour oftner . And it hath not been Fordon's ignorance : for he tells that Ethodius was Brother to Eugenius . But the Doctor says , After this you find a greater difference : for instead of Finnanus , Durstus , Evenus , Gillus , Evenus the Second , Ederus , Evenus the Third , Metellanus , Caratacus , we find there onely Dethach , Iau , Aljelah , Even , Ederskeoli , Comermore . It seems , the Doctor hath taken this at second hand ; for if he had looked either the Genealogy of King Alexander or King David , he would have found Fin , which is the same with Finnanus . But the Doctor might have known , that such a small difference in names and numbers doth not overthrow the verity of a Genealogy from his Friend Flahertie in his Epistle to Io. Linceus , who takes the name of Lucius Gratianus in Cambr. evers . as in the Genealogy of the Scripture Cainan is interposed betwixt Arphaxad and Sala , who tells , that such like Errours may proceed from one Person 's having two names , or by taking a Brother for a Father , or the like mistake of the Writer ; where the Line may be a little lengthned or shortned , the Tract of it remaining the same . But here , besides the difference of Highland and Lowland Language , wherein Alexander is called Alaster , and Archibald Gillespie , Gillus was a Bastard Usurper , and Evenus a Collateral to Durstus , as appears by our Historians Boeth , Buchanan and Lesly . As to the Genealogy of St. David , it is subjoyn'd immediately to Baldredus his Lamentation about him ; and , whether it be his , or Cardinal Wardlaw's , it furnisheth still another ancient and more credible Authour , a Cardinal . But perhaps he was not Cardinal , when he told Fordon the Genealogy , but thereafter , and the Transcriber of the Scotichronicon hath given him his most honourable Name . And though he died in Robert the First of the Stuart's time , yet he was Archidiaconus of Lothian , and Secretary to King David the Bruce , as appears by the * Scotichronicon . And Fordon saith of the account from him , Dudum acceperat , and prefixeth a Preface , in which he asserts , that St. David was descended from a Glorious and ancient Race of Kings , who had preserv'd their Kingdom free from Slavery longer than any other Race of Kings had done , and had resisted or expelled all such Enemies as had invaded them . Post Britones , Dacos , Pictos , Anglósque repulsos , Viriliter Scoti jus tenuere suum ; Et Romanorum spreverunt vim validorum , Exemplo quorum pensarunt praeterit rum Inclyta Scotorum proles laudem genitorum . This doth not agree with the Doctor 's Origin of us after the Saxons , and our dependence upon them . This Wardlaw Bishop of Glasgow is design'd in Scotichronicon Cardinal of Scotland and Ireland , and the account and Verses appear to be far ancienter , than either Wardlaw or Fordon , otherwise Fordon had hardly ever cited the Relation of one Contemporary with himself , and of one who was perhaps a younger man. And as to the Pretence , that the passing from the first Line before Fergus the Second will cut off the Pretence of establishing the Regents , and incapacitating the Sons of Kings being Minors , This appears evidently to be false . For long after Fergus the Second's time , the Collaterals did certainly succeed , till that evil Custome was abrogated by Kenneth the Third , about 700 years agoe . And albeit many Murthers and Encroachments were committed upon these Kings of the first Race , their times being more barbarous , what is that to the purpose ? Were they therefore never in being , or not Kings ? Doth not Flahertie tell us , that of the first hundred thirty six Kings of Ireland ; Centum ferrum sustulit , septemdecim naturae concesserunt , sex pestis absumpsit ; tres fulmine percussi , & decem diversis aliis modis , singuli vivis excesserunt ? Were there not Murthers and Usurpations in our second Race , and hath not the like been every where ? And doth not the Doctor remember of Richard the Third of England , who murthered Edward the Fifth and his Brother , who were his own Nephews , and usurped the Crown ? And the inserting these , to lengthen the Line in favour of Regents had been ridiculous : for by a clear Law these were cut off in Kenneth the Third's time ; and so our Historians needed not the help of forged Genealogies in this . So that I can see no Design nor Politick in Fordon nor Boeth , in this number and account they give of our Kings , nor that they have differed from the Genealogist , nor that the Highland Genealogist hath shortned the Royal Line , as the Bishop of St. Asaph hath done . And the Doctor ought to have remembred , that I did undertake onely to maintain the Antiquity of our Royal Line at the least ; to refute the Bishop of St. Asaph's Hypothesis , of a Settlement in the Year 503 , and not to vindicate every passage and part of our History which cannot be done , as to any profane History . By all which I may conclude most convincingly , that these three accounts given of the Genealogies of our Kings are so far from Contradicting our History , that they agree with it , and being inserted in three several Genealogies , prior to Fordon , and being exprest by them upon very solemn occasions they do fortifie much the truth of the Genealogy of the Royal Line , and that Fordon did not dream the same , but inserted these Genealogies in his History from good Authours and by good Authority . The Reader may for his better understanding the Answers formerly made , take a general view of this complex matter , as sum'd up in these short Positions . I. That the Highland Gentleman was obliged to ascend from Son to Father , as all Genealogies do ; and consequently he was obliged to name some who were not Kings , because they were Fathers to Kings . II. He was obliged to omit Collaterals , because , though they were Kings , yet they were not such as were comprehended within the Gradation from Son to Father , whereas our History rightly sets down those who succeeded as Brothers , as well as Sons . III. In this Genealogy some are omitted , as Bastards , and other Usurpers ; and so should not have been insert in a Genealogy to be repeated before the King , though they were likewise expressed in our Histories , they having Reigned de facto , though not de jure . IV. The greatest doubt , that is made by the Doctor himself , as to our Kings , is since Fergus the Second , after which , the Irish and others acknowledge our Historical Genealogy ; or after Kenneth the Second , since which time even Ubbo Emmius does assert the truth of our History . And so any difference betwixt our History and Genealogy must arise from the mistake of the Genealogist's memory , or the Transcriber's negligence ; and I have condescended upon a probable Ground of mistake . V. Most of the Difficulties arise from the difference of Names of the same Persons , which is very ordinary in all Genealogies . VI. There could be no Design in our Historians inserting any to favour the Right of Regents : for the Succession of Regents was condemn'd by a positive Law , before some of these controverted Kings did succeed . VII . It is not imaginable , that our Historians would insert in their Histories contradictory Genealogies : for that were so palpable , that , though it could have escaped one Historian , yet it could not have escaped many . VIII . To illustrate farther the whole matter , I have subjoyned the Tree of Alexander the Third his Predecessours , both in the Direct and Collateral Line , whereby it doth evidently appear , that all his Predecessours mentioned by the Genealogist were in the direct Line , and that these Kings of whom the Genealogist made no mention , were onely Collaterals to King Alexander ; whose Genealogy was recited . And I have also farther continued this Genealogy in a direct Line from St. David by the Families of Bruce , and Stuart to King Iames the Seventh , who now Reigns . CHAP. V. The Irish Genealogy of our Kings compared with the accounts given by the Chronicle of Melross , and both compared with the Genealogies contained in our Histories ; with a full proof , that our Historians are to be preferred to the Irish Annals as to this point : Ogygia examin'd . I Having urg'd , that our Historians were to be believed in matters of fact , such as are the Genealogies of our Kings , they being many , and Men of Authority ; and having declared , that they extracted their Histories from Authentick Records , though now lost : And these matters of fact being probable in themselves , and adminiculated by the current of Foreign Histories and Authours , except our Adversaries should redargue them by Authours living in the time , or more credible , which were inconsistent with them . The Doctor did therefore urge the inconsistency of our Genealogies amongst themselves , which I have fully answered in the preceding Chapter , and their inconsistency with the Irish Annals , which he contends are to be preferred to ours , We being descended from the Irish , and they having more ancient Annals than ours ; which I am to answer in this Chapter . And , for the preference of our Histories in the point of Credibility , I adduce these following Arguments . 1. No History can be discredited , as uncertain and fabulous , upon the Testimony and Authority of another History , except that other History be acknowledg'd by both the Debaters ; but much less , where it is reprobated by him , who urges an Argument from it . But so it is , that Dr. Stilling fleet himself does treat the Irish Annals in Ridicule , as to the remote part of their Antiquity , in his Preface , page 33. and Chap. 5. p. 272. where he proves , that they had not sufficient Warrants before the Eleventh Century , which is long after the time , wherein both the Bishop of St. Asaph and he acknowledges that we were setled here . And consequently the Authority of their History is not sufficient to overturn the time of our settlement , as it is asserted by our Historians . 2. We desire to know , what Warrants the Irish had within six Generations of Iaphet ? Especially to warrant them , not onely to condescend upon particular actions , mentioned , and adminiculated by no other Histories , but even to be special in the coming of some from Ireland , just 40 days before the Floud . And that Partholanus , and others , arrived in Ireland , Anno 312. after the Floud , in the month of May , the 14th of the Moon , and upon Wednesday . And how the Doctor should urge this History against ours , as sufficient to overturn the credibility of ours , when he will not allow us to know so much , as when our Nation at first setled in Scotland , and who was our first King , about 2000 years after that time , when the Romans , who lived long in our Neighbourhood , in France , and fought long with us , are acknowledged to have had the use of Letters , and the way of calculating time : both which were absolutely unknown in the Ages mentioned in the Irish Annals . And either the Irish had the exact knowledge of Letters , and the calculation of time , when our first Colonies came over from them , or not : If they had them ; why not we likewise ? and so the Doctor does unjustly object to us , that our Histories are not to be believed , because we wanted both these . Or if the Irish had them not , our History cannot be overturned by the Authority of theirs . 3. It 's acknowledg'd by all the Irish , except Iocelin ; that we were at least setled here since the Year 503. and so since that time we must understand the History and descent of our own Kings better than any other Nation can doe ; nor should any man debate with these that deny this principle . But so it is , that since that time , the Irish accompt of the descent of our Kings differs extremely from ours ; for they will have Loarn to have been our first King , and elder Brother to Fergus , whereas our Story makes no mention at all of any such King , but makes Fergus the Second the Restorer of our Monarchy . And their Catalogue calls him Fergusius Magnus , a title never given to him who founds , but to him who augments the Monarchy . And how can any man imagine , that a Nation would have forgot who was the Founder of their Monarchy , and being so late , and yet have remembred his Brothers , and all the rest of the Line ; especially since Loarn is said to have reign'd ten years , as Offlahartie says . We make Eugenius the Second to have succeeded to this King Fergus , but they make Domangardus to have succeeded to him . They make Congallus to have succeeded to Domangardus , but we make Constantine the First to have succeeded to Dongardus , whom I conceive they make Domangardus . To our Corranus , whom he calls Gouranus , did succeed Eugenius the Third ; but he makes Conallus to have succeeded to him . To Congallus succeeded truly Kenatellus , but he makes Aydanus to have succeeded to him . To Aydanus succeeded Keneth the First , but he makes Achaius the First to have succeeded to him . The differences after him , will best appear in these Columns , which may likewise be observed from the beginning of this period . The Genealogy as in our Histories from Fergus II. to Murdoch . The Genealogy as in the Irish from Loarn to Murdoch . Fergus II. Loarn eldest Son , and Eugenius II. eldest Son , Fergusius Magnus second Son to Erik , Dongardus the second Son of Fergus the Second . Domangardus Son to Fergusius . Constantine I. third Son , all three Sons of Fergus II. Congallus Domangardus ' s Son. Congallus I. Dongard ' s Son , Gauranus Congallus ' s Brother . Goranus Dongard ' s Son. Conallus Congall ' s Son. Eugenius III. Congallus ' s Son. Aidanus Gauran ' s Son. Congallus II. Congallus ' s Son. Acbaius I. Aydan ' s Son. Kinnatellus Congallus ' s Son. Conadius Achaius ' s Son. Aidanus Goranus ' s Son. Ferqhardus I. Conadius ' s Son. Kennethus I. Convallus ' s Son. Danaldus I. Brother to Ferqhard . Eugenius IV. Aidanus ' s Son. Conallus II. Achaius ' s Son. Ferchardus I. Eugenius ' s Son. Dungallius I. Donald Brec ' s Son. Donald IV. Eugenius ' s 2d . Son. Donaldus II. Conallus ' s Son. Ferchard II. Ferchard ' s Son. Malduinus Conallus ' s Son. Malduinus Donald ' s Grandchild by Dongard no King. Ferqhardus II. Eugenius V. Donald ' s Son. Achaius II. Grandchild of Donald I. by his Son Dongard . Eugenius VI. Ferchard ' s Son. Amberkelethus Son of Ferqhard II. Amberkelethus Findan ' s Son , who was Son to Eugenius . Selvathus Brother to Amberkelethus . Eugenius VII . Brother to Amberkelethus . Achaius III. Son of Achaius II. And then Murdachus Amberkelethus ' s Son. Muridachus Son of Amberkelethus . So that , comparing . Flahertie's account with ours , we shall find them to differ in names , the times of their Reign , and Degrees of their Consanguinity , the Irish omitting some who did Reign , and inserting others who never Reign'd , or at least , who Reign'd not near these times , in which they are placed . My fourth Argument shall be , That after the Year 503 we are acknowledged to be setled , and to have had a distinct Kingdom from Ireland , and to have had the learned Monastery of Icolmkill , from which Swarms of learned Men were sent to all places ; But especially to the Saxons in Lindesfarne , to whom Aidan , Finan and Colman were sent Bishops , as St. Asaph and Flahertie acknowledge . And therefore it cannot be denied , but that our Histories must be much better believed , than either the Irish Annals , or the Chronicle of Melross , though they agreed in what they differed from our Histories ; But much more , when they contradict one another ; especially when their differences are very considerable . And since the Chronicle of Melross is judged so Authentick by the Bishop and the Doctor ; it must be concluded , that , when that Chronicle differs very much from the Irish , and comes near to ours , ours must be preferred to the Irish in point of Credibility . But so it is that all this will appear by comparing the three , in so far as concerns the Genealogies of our Kings , from Murdachus , to Kenneth the Second . By our Histories and Genealogies , Murdachus was Son to Amberkellethus , and began to Reign Anno Christi 715 , whereas by the Chronicle of Mailross he is made the Son of Ewam as he was indeed Successour to Ewam , or Eugenius his Uncle , though not his Son , and he is called Murizant , and he is said there to begin his Reign Anno 741. But by the Irish Catalogue of the Scotish Kings in Ogygia , his Reign is said to begin Anno 733. By our History , Etfinus , Son to Eugenius , begun his Reign Anno 730. By the Chronicle , Ewen , Son to Murizant , Anno 744. By the Catalogue , Dongallus Son of Selvachus , is said to succeed his Cousin German Murdachus , Anno 736. Whereas Dongallus did not succeed till the Year 824. Nor did Solvathius succeed till the Year 767. To Etfin succeeded Eugenius , who began to Reign Anno 761. according to our History . By the Chronicle , Hedobbus , the Son of Ewen , succeeded to Ewen , Anno 747. By the Catalogue Achaius the Fourth succeeded to Dongall , Anno 743 , and Offlahartie the Authour of the Catalogue subjoyns to this King an observation , that in divers Copies of this Poem or Catalogue . Selvachus , Achaius the Third , Achaius the Fourth , and Achaius the Fifth , and Gregory are wanting ; which shews , of how small Authority this Poem or Catalogue should be : for Achaius and Gregory are two of the most considerable , and uncontroverted of all our Kings in these Periods . For Achaius did make the League with Charlemain , and is mentioned in many Histories beside ours . And Gregory lived after the time of Kenneth the Second , and is Sirnamed the Great , because of the Victory over the Britains , Irish and Saxons , and this is acknowledged , and is cited as such in the famous debate betwixt us and the English before the Pope . Selvachus also is acknowledged by the Chronicle of Mailross . But the secret and true Reason of this suggestion is , that he might obviate the objection from the difference of the number , and suppress Achaius , because they will have the League not to be made with him , but with the Irish ; and Gregory , because he invaded Ireland . O! How witty are these Contrivances ? To Eugenius succeeded Fergus the Third , who began his reign Anno 764. By the Chronicle to Hed succeeded Fergus his Son , Anno 777. By the Catalogue , Aidus fin the First , corrupted Ethfinn , succeeded to Achaius the Fourth his Father , Anno 748. whereas truly Achaius was not Father to Etfin ; but Etfin was Father to Achaius . According to the Catalogue there are nine Kings without any special Chronology from 778 to 838 ; viz. Our Kings from Fergus 3 to Kenneth 2 , are by our Histories . According to the Chronicle of Mailross . Donall III. Solvathius . Selvand . Conall III. Achaius . Eokall . Conall IV. Congallus . Dungall . Constantine I. Dongallus . Alpine the Son of Eokall , which shews that Eokall was Achaius , and then Aeneas . Alpinus and then Kined Son to Alpin . Aidus II. Kenneth II.   Eugemanus Aeneas Son.     Achaius fifth Son of Aidus .     Alpine the Son of Achaius , and then Kenneth Alpine's Son.     Here are many Kings , of whom the Nation , where they are said to have Reigned in a very late and uncontroverted time , know nothing , and in which the Irish not onely differ from us , but also from the Chronicle of Mailross , which seems to have been written by some English Borderers , who though they have somewhat carelesly observed what was doing among us ; yet because of their Neighbourhood and Commerce , have understood the same better than the Irish. It 's likewise observable , that by Collationing that Period of the Genealogy of our Kings , from Fergus 2 to Malcolm 3 ; the Irish Catalogue in Ogygia , allows from the 503 to the 1057 , being 554 years for 51 Kings which is very short , whereas we allow from the 404 to 1057 , being 653 years for 46 Kings , which is far more probable in it self , and more agreeable to the Doctor 's observation , who allows twenty five years to a Generation , according to the most received opinion ; whereas this Calculation allows onely ten years , and about ten Months to every King , even in those ancient times when Men lived long . And whereas it is still objected against Hector Boethius , that he augmented the number of our Kings , by inserting Collaterals to support the Law of incapacity ; and to make the long account of time seem probable . It 's answered , that this objection is fully satisfied , both by the Authority of the Chronicle of Mailross , and this Irish Catalogue , which insert Collaterals , as well as those of the direct Line . And if all these Kings named by them had been in the direct Line , that great number of fifty two joyned with the Collaterals , had made the number of our Kings in that Period to have come near to an hundred , and thus each King to have had about six years allow'd him . I had not fully considered the Irish Genealogies when I insisted upon that Argument from Carbre Lifachair , and now I acknowledge that my own Argument from that Book was of no moment , and to shew my ingenuity I pass from it . But the reason why I said then , that there might be a hundred years allowed for a Man's Life , is because the Civil Law allows so much , and a Man is never presumed to be dead , till it is proved he lived an hundred years ; but I confess the Doctor 's Calculation from Censorinus , of what makes a Generation , holds ordinarily true ; and is to be preferred in the accounts of Genealogy . My fifth Argument against the Irish Genealogy is , That it differs not onely from ours and from that account in the Abbacy of Mailross , but from all the French Historians , and our ancient Records yet extant ; by which it is clear , that our King Achaius entred in League with the French King Charlemain : whereas the exact Offlahartie , makes onely this French League to have been entred into with Charles the Sixth in the Year 1380 , which fell in the time of King Robert the Second , and adds , that this League was made by Robert Stewart , Lord d'Aubigny , in which he confounds two known Stories , that he may contradict Wardaeus his Countreyman ; for it is indeed true , that the ancient League was renewed with King Robert the First of the Stewarts , Anno 1380 , the Original whereof is yet extant in our Records , and whereof the Copy is in Fordon : But this League was treated by Cardinal Wardlaw for us , and the Count d'Bryan for the French , and the same League was again renewed , Anno 1425 , by Iohn Lord Darnly Constable of France , for the French ; and Wardaeus makes this last Treaty to be the first that was made betwixt our Kings and the French : and Offlahartie , not to contradict him , has joyned the Persons who treated the one League , with the time wherein the other was treated . But that there was a League betwixt our Achaius and Charlmaigne , or at least long before the Year 1380 , is most uncontravertable for these Reasons : 1. The French Historians acknowledge that this League was betwixt Achaius and Charlemain ; and I have proved by Eguinard Secretary to the said Charlemain , that there was great Correspondence betwixt them ; and that he esteemed very much the King of Scotland . As also , I have proved from Italian Authours , that there were Families descended of our Scotland setled in Italy , who came over with William Brother to the said Achaius . 2. Not onely does Chambers of Ormond , who lived then in France , set down the Articles of that Treaty , and the several times it was renewed ; but Fordon * does expresly insert the League that was betwixt Robert the Second , first of the Stewarts , and the King of France . Wherein the King of France acknowledges even at that time , the old Confederacies and Leagues , à longo tempore , inter Praedecessores nostros Reges firmatae & connexae ; and the King of Scotland on the other part expresses , Confoederatio inter illustres Reges Franciae & avum nostrum , this was Robert the Bruce ; and adds , Et ab olim facta & diutius observata . And to instruct this part of Fordon's Story , as well as the League it self , we have the Original League with King Robert the First yet extant , and Iohn Baliol ( then pretended King of Scotland ) refused to joyn with Edward of England against Philip of France , because of the ancient League made by their Predecessours Charlemain and Achaius , Et usque nunc inconcusè servata . Whereupon a League is renewed and confirmed by a Marriage , the Tenour whereof is also extant in Fordon , who also sets down the Tenour of the Pope's Bull , prohibiting Alexander the Second , our King , to continue in his League with the King of France , but to joyn with the King of England ; and , as an effect of these Leagues , Marianus ( whom the Irish call their Countrey-man , albeit they also confess , that he called our Countrey Scotia ) mentions , that Anno 1070 , the Scots and French wasted the English : Which shews , that this Alliance was much elder , than either the 1425 , or the 1380 , as O Flahertie asserts : And therefore , that excellent Historian the Sieur Varillas relates , that Charles the Fifth's Governour did advise him not to expect , that the King of Scotland would enter into his Interests , because the Alliance of that Nation with the French had lasted seven hundred Years , without interruption , from King to King , before that time . And by these we may see , what a just Authour Ubbo Emmius is , who rejects our History for many years after this Alliance , and how judiciously he is produced by the Doctor . But , though the French could have been mistaken in all their Histories , yet it is not imaginable , that they would have bestowed great Privileges and Rewards upon us for Services done by the Irish ; and that the Families , who came over at that time , would not have own'd themselves to be descended from the Irish , and not from us . The Doctor , to induce his Readers to believe , that we are mistaken in the Genealogies of our own Kings , pretends that the true Reason of the mistake of the Scotish Antiquities was , that we finding , that there was a Fergus in the Irish Genealogy called Fortis or Fortamalius , who Reigned truly in 3775 , and that in the descent of that Fergus there was a Conar ; and from him Rieda called by the Irish Carbre Rieda , and by us Eoch and Ried ; and that there were several other Names in our Genealogies agreeing with the Genealogies of the Irish , as Eochoid , who was Father to Erk , and is acknowledged by both to be Father to Fergus the Second ; the Doctor from all this concludes , that the Original mistake lay in applying the Irish Genealogy to the Kings of Scotland , and that we either imagined , or would have others believe , that all the Kings mentioned before Fergus the Son of Erk were Kings in Scotland , and so went back by degrees , till we made up a formal Story of forty Kings . To this we Answer ; That it were a strange thing , that our Story , which we have so well prov'd , should be overturned by the Doctor 's mere Conjecture ; especially , seeing there is no Ground for such a Conjecture from any of these Steps on which the Doctor founds his Probability . No Authour , for ought we can see , concurs with the Doctor in this Conjecture , as to Fergus ; and O-Flahertie , who pretends that he understands the differences betwixt the Descents and the Reasons thereof , goes no higher than Conar the Second . And speaking twice of Fergusius Fortis , he makes not at all him to be the first Authour of our Race . 2. If we had not had a sure Warrant of the Settlement and Genealogy of our Kings , but had onely inserted the Kings of Ireland , as ours , from a vanity to be thought Ancient ; it is more probable by the same Reason , that we would have improved it to a Story of twice forty Kings backwards . And why should the Doctor make us to have sisted in Fergusius Fortis rather , than in Fergusius Rogius , or Fergusius Denti-niger , both Kings in Ireland before Fergus the Second ? 3. That there could be no Ground for our sisting in Fergusius fortis , is very clear : for he reign'd Anno Mundi 3775 , whereas our Fergus began to Reign Anno Mundi 3641 , and so we had lost 134 years of our Antiquity ; and we should rather have fixed upon Hugonius Magnus , who began to Reign 3619. and consequently agreed with the true time of our Settlement , and there had been a more probable Conjecture from what is said in Ogygia , in the Reign of Reactus immediate Predecessour to Hugonius , in whose time it 's said from the Manuscript of O-Duveganus , that one Ferc made a descent into Albania , and conquered it ; and this Ferc might have been more probably said to have been Ferqhard , and so to have made way for the Settlementof Fergus his Son as King here . The next step of this Conjecture is , that wherein O-Flahertie agrees with the Doctor , and O-Flahertie asserts , that all the Antiquaries of Scotland and Ireland agree , that our Kings are descended from Carbre Ried the Son of Conar the Second , who was King of Ireland . Which step is also ill founded . For 1. Though indeed we had a King called Conar ( as we had but one Conar ) yet here our Conar does not at all agree with the Irish Conar in time : For our Conar began to Reign in the Year of Christ 149 , whereas the Irish Conar the Second began to Reign Anno Christi 212. So that here we had lost 63 years again of our Antiquity . And the Conjecture from the Agreements in Names is very silly , we being Neighbours , and speaking one Language ; and Kings even in remoter Kingdoms use to give their Children , one another's Names 2. The other part of that Position , that we are all agreed , that our Kings are descended from Carbre Ried the Son of Conar , and that our Countrey is called Dalrieda from him , this is false : for we own our being called Dalreudini from King Reuda or Reutha , in which our Historians follow Beda's express words ; and Rieda and Reutha differ much in time , Reutha having in Beda's opinion setled here before Iulius Caesar ; whereas Carbre Rieda behov'd to be born long after that time , for his Father Conar Reigned onely 112 years after Christ. 3. We had no Carbres , who could be Sons to Conar the Second , for we had onely one Conar , and so no Conar the Second , and he was Posterior to both our Carbres ; for Carbredus Galdus Reign'd in Anno 76 , and Carbredus the Second reign'd in Anno 113 , and so long Prior to the Reign of Conar in 212. 4. As to the Pretence , that Eochoid Ried , or Etdach Ried is the same with Carbre Ried , and that our Genealogy had an Eochoid Ried Posterior to Conar ; this is Groundless : for both our Genealogies , and the Irish have both Eochoids and Carbres , as distinct Names , nor do the Names appear the same any manner of way . 5. Though it might be pretended , that our Countrey was call'd Dalrieda from a Countrey in Ireland , and not from Reutha ; yet non conslat , that it was so called from a Countrey call'd Dalrieda , and so from the Sirname of Ried ; but from Araidh King of Ireland , seeing the same , O-Flahertie gives an account of a King of Ulster called Fiachus Araidh , from whom also a Countrey in Ulster is call'd Dalaradia and Dalriadia , and the Inhabitants Dalaradii . And this King Araidh was also after Conar : For he began to reign Anno 240. And as it was more honourable to have a Countrey called after Reuda a Scotish King , than from Araidh , who was but a King of Ulster , and so one of the Kings of a Province in Ireland ; so it is yet more dishonourable , to have our glorious Monarch , who now Reigns , descended from Carbre Ried , who was but a Dynastie in this Provincial Kingdom of Ulster ; and so a Subject , each Provincial Kingdom having five Dynasties , as O-Flahertie tells us . And from all this I leave to my Readers to judge , whether Dr. Stillingfleet and his Authours doe the King greater Honour , in making him to be descended from a petty Subject ; or our Historians , who make him still to be descended from absolute Monarchs . I cannot here omit to laugh at good O-Flahertie for asserting , that our Kings , even till the 590 , were but Dynasties , Tributaries and Subjects to the Kings of Ireland , and that Aidanus got an Exemption from paying Tribute at the Parliament of Dromcheat ; where he appeared . And the Doctor does great Honour to our King in following such Authours , and rather to follow them , than the venerable Beda . The Bishop of St. Asaph has a different derivation of Dalrieda from all the former Authours : for he brought it from R● which signifies King in the Irish , and Eda the King's name ; so that Eda was a different King ( and Authour of this Appellation ) from Rheuda , Carbre Ried , Echoid Ried or Araidh . And are our Histories to be overturn'd by such irreconcilable Authours ? The fourth step of this Conjecture is , in the Agreement of our History with the Irish in the Persons of Eric , Eochoid , Mainreamhere , Oengus Fear , the Father , Grandfather and Great Grandfather of our Fergus the Second , though there be a difference in the rest of the Line , from Carbre to Fergus , our Historians making this Line to consist of thirteen Persons , and theirs of ten . But against this last Period it is represented , That the small Agreement in this step , as to the Names of Father and Grandfather of Fergus , with their residence in Ireland , the Grandfather having been expell'd from Scotland , and fled to Ireland , when King Eugenius was killed by the Romans under Maximus , gave a Rise to some unexact Irish Writers to imagine , that the return of this Fergus the Second from Ireland , after forty four years absence , was our first Settlement in Britain . But the want of three in this Period of thirteen in a direct Line does much over-balance the small Probability , that is urged against us from the Agreement in two Names , and some resemblance in other two , viz. in Carbre Ried , and Eochoid Ried , and Aenegusa Tich and Angus Fear . It is also very observable , that this Irish Genealogy allows 283 years to these ten , viz. from the death of Conar Carbre's Father ( who dyed Anno 220 , Arthur his Successour having begun his Reign that year ) to the Year 503 , wherein Laorn eldest Brother to our Fergus the Second ( as they say ) began his Reign ; and yet to fifty one Kings from that Laorn to Malcolm the Third , they allow onely 554 years . And from the reflexion it is also more probable , that there were thirteen in this Period , and that Conar began to reign in the Year 149 , and Fergus the Second in the Year 404 , as our Historians assert . To all these I add the irreconcilable differences amongst the Irish Authours , as to the first Founder of our Monarchy , and the time wherein it was founded ; as also the irreconcilable Consequences following thereupon , wherein our three great Adversaries Camden , Usher and Bishop of St. Asaph did so widely differ , as I have fully prov'd in my first Book , without any Answer ; and by which Contradictions Dr. Stillingfleet himself is so misted , that he cannot determine , whether we setled in the fourth , fifth , sixth or seventh Centuries , professing , that in matters of so great obscurity he could determine nothing . My last Argument to prove , that our Histories cannot be overturn'd by the Irish , shall be from comparing the Warrants of both . But , before I enter upon this , I must again regret in this Book , as I did in my last , that the Irish should mistake so far their own Interest , as to suffer or furnish theirs to overturn the Credibility of ours : Since , because we acknowledge our selves to have come last from Ireland , it were our common Interest to unite together , and to sustain one another's Antiquities , as their Authours did before Bishop Usher , who was of foreign Extraction . For , though they controverted some of our Saints and Monasteries , because of the common name Scoti , yet till then they never opposed our Antiquities , knowing that in so far as we prov'd our Antiquity by Roman and foreign Authors , which they had not the occasion to do , they in so far were proved to be ancient , which Stanihurst well observ'd , as I did remark , in my first Book . And upon seeing the use that is made of Authours against us , who are really for us ( as Beda and others ) we are apt to believe , that theirs are not , if we saw them ; and that the Irish rather omit our remote Antiquities , than contradict them . Nor would we have controverted the Authority of their Annals , though some of the English had produc'd them against us , if some of the Irish had not by ignorance or mistake concurr'd of late with them . We likewise desire them to consider , how our Adversaries , and particularly Dr. Stillingfleet railly their Antiquities and Authours Ketin , Wardoeus and O-Flahertie , and yet seem ( which is severe ) to allow their Antiquities , to the end they may encourage them to oppose us , laying still foundations in the mean time to overturn theirs also , when they have serv'd their turn , which I now proceed to discover . First , The Milesian Race is accounted by the Irish their Fourth Race ; and yet this is controverted by Dr. Stillingfleet . And the Authority and Learning of the Druids , upon which the Irish do chiefly found the Authority of their Histories , is absolutely denied ; as it also is , that the Irish had use of Letters , till after St. Patrick's time : and all the Antiquity he does allow them is , as to general things , as , from whence they were peopl'd , and that they had successions of Kings time out of mind ; and does magnify the Tygerneck Annals for confessing , that the Irish Antiquities , till the Reign of Kimbacius their 73d King , are very uncertain , and he liv'd within 59 years of our Fergus . And the Doctor adds , that he might have gone farther , and done no injury to Truth ; and at last brings down this Truth to Fergusius Fortamalius , who liv'd Anno Mundi 3775. which is 134 years after our Fergus ; whereas we necessarily conclude the Irish to have a much greater Antiquity : for there were many Descents made here from Ireland , to prepare the settlement of Fergus ; and Ireland lying in the neighbourhood of Britain and Spain , and describ'd by the Ancientest Geographers and other Writers , as inhabited , and without any mention of Conquest , it necessarily follows , that they must have been Aborigines there . And , by the same reason , they having been very ancient , and wanting Wars , must have eased themselves by Colonies ; And , this Countrey being within 13 Miles of them , our settlement must have been very ancient . And so the one does necessarily infer the other , and should not be made use of to contradict it ; and the English , who have conquer'd them , are interested to humble them , but we to maintain them . Albeit then it is our own Interest to support their Antiquities ; yet in as far as they are now produc'd to overturn what relates to our Countrey , they are not to be preferr'd to ours , as the Doctor asserts : for who would maintain , that the Accounts given by the Saxons , Celtae or Spaniards should be preferr'd to the British , or English , or Irish Histories for the times , after the Britains , English or Irish were acknowledg'd to be setled ? And as to the Irish Writers themselves , this Poem selected and preferr'd to all other Annals by O-Flahertie , as not onely containing an acknowledgment of our settlement , but a Genealogy of our Kings , we have prov'd , that it is not preferable to our Historians in point of Credibility . And besides all that I have said of it , I must add , that O-Flahertie * acknowledges , that there were several different Copies of it , and even this , which he follow'd , was not intire , some Distichs being wanting , else he doubted not to make an intire Catalogue . And even this , such as it is , is onely written in Malcolm Canmore's time , whom it mentions , who reign'd in the 1057 , of which lateness all the other Irish Annals allow'd by the Doctor are . The main ground insisted on by the Doctor for preferring the Irish in the point of Credibility to us is , that we neither had , nor could have so ancient Annals as they , our Monasteries being onely founded by St. David , and after him , and so ●osterior to their Annals . Which Argument is founded upon a false Supposition : for the Doctor himself acknowledges that the Psalter of Naran contains onely matters of Devotion , as the Irish Antiquaries cited by him confess . This is the eldest , and was written in the latter end of the Eighth Century . The next is the Psalter of Cashel , which he rejects as not well founded , and allows none as credible , but those which are written after the Year of Christ 1000. And it cannot be deny'd , but we might have had well-warranted Annals before that time ; which the Doctor denies . For first , We were then fully possess'd not onely of our own first part of Scotland , but even of the Pictish part of it , and also of the Northern ( now English ) Countries confirm'd to Malcolm the First ( by the English own acknowledgment ) who reign'd Anno Christi 943. And so we were Masters of Icolmkill , Abercorn , Abernethie , Mailross , Lindisfern , and other Monasteries , which lay within that great extent ; and which extent Dr. Stillingfleet acknowledges , since Severus's Wall is by him confess'd to be built betwixt Tine and Esk. We had also the number of our Bishopricks increased by the subduing of the Picts , as is not onely probable in it self , but is clear by the acknowledg'd Catalogues of Bishopricks in Fordon . Icolmkill is by Beda said to be founded about the 560. and to be the chief of all the Monasteries in Britain or Ireland . Abernethie was founded in Garnard's time , who was next Pictish King to Brudeus , in whose time Columba liv'd , and so about the 600. And Fordon relates , that this Monastery was founded 200 years before the Church of Dunkeld was founded . And here is not onely a Monastery mention'd , which might have had Annals higher than the Psalter of Naran , suppose it had created History ; but he cites the Chronicle of Abernethie , which the Doctor acknowledges to be an old Chronicle ; and Beda also acknowledges ; that there was such a Monastery as Abercorn . And though the Doctor cites Buchanan , saying , that it was so demolish'd , that no vestige of it did appear ; yet , the Pictish Kingdom being quite ruin'd , the Argument , that there was no such Monastery , is of no force : for the Records of many demolish'd Monasteries are preserv'd . And , though the Abbacy of Mailross was rebuilt by St. David ; yet , that it was a famous Monastery in Beda's time , is clear ( for he tells , that the Abbat of Mailross was translated to Lindisfern ) and has probably remained long demolish'd by the Wars , as Abercorn did ; and the Writers did thereby express the rebuilding as an original foundation . And the reason , why I said in my former Book , that this Abbacy was ( before it was rebuilt ) called Rivallis , was because I have seen in a Collection of Foundations made by our Lord Register Skeen a Copy of the Foundation of Mailross , wherein the Lands of Mailross and others are given to the Monks of Rivallis . But , whether Mailross or Rivallis are distinct or not , is not material to our point ; and , if they be distinct , it is more for our advantage , since by that Concession we have two Monasteries doted by St. David . It contributes much to the preference of our Histories beyond the Irish in point of Credibility , and to the establishment of the Credibility of our Histories against all our Adversaries , that in the Debate before the Pope at Rome , about the Year 1300. ( where the Roman Antiquities must certainly be best understood , and when the Debate was against the Learn'd English , who were very much concerned to contradict us ) we did own this our settlement before Iulius Caesar his entry into this Isle ; and that we as a setled Nation , and not as a vagrant company of Irishes , maintain'd that long series of Wars related by Beda and our own Historians . And in that Debate we assert justly , that the visible Ruines of the two Walls built by the Romans against us and the Picts are certain proofs of our Antiquity , and that we were the People who maintain'd the War. As also in a Letter from our Nobility to the Pope about the Year 1320. we again assert our Antiquity , and that Haec collegimus ex Antiquorum gestis & libris . And all this Debate and Letter being yet extant , these are surer Warrants for our Antiquity , than any thing that can be urg'd against us from the Irish Annals , the eldest whereof are in the Year 1100. written by Natives at home , without any contradiction or warrant , for ought we have yet seen . Nor has the Learn'd Dr. Stillingfleet answered the same Objection , when urged in my First Book , though with less force than it is now urg'd . Dr. Stillingfleet answers to all that is urg'd from the Antiquity of our Monasteries , That this proves onely , that we might have had , but not that we had sufficient Warrants , since we produce not the Annals of these Monasteries . To which my Answer is , that ( 1. ) This at least overturns his Position , that We neither had , nor could have sufficient Warrants for a greater Antiquity than the Irish. ( 2. ) The Irish produce no Warrants for their Annals , though much later than ours ; and , as we are equal in other things , so we are stronger in this . ( 3. ) We have formerly prov'd , as convincingly as can be in any such case , that we had such Annals in these our Monasteries , and that our Historians compil'd our Histories from them ; and that they were lost by the Invasions of the English , and by the demolishing of our Monasteries in an Age , wherein all their Records were thought Reliques of Popery . The Doctor 's own chief grounds for preference , in point of Credibility , are * Testimonies founded upon Ancient Credible Writers , having a concurrent probability of circumstances , and that amongst these Ancient Writers , consideration is to be had of their abilities , opportunities , care and diligence , according to which Rules , I have formerly produced many concurring Testimonies from Ancient Credible Authours , relating things credible , and probable : and now in competition with the Irish , as to the abilities , and opportunities of our Authours , and their care and diligence in collecting our Histories , I contend , we ought to be preferable ; because , beside the grounds above urg'd , I must remember my Readers , that the Doctor denies the Irish any opportunity of transmitting their Histories by Letters , till after St. Patrick's time . But so it is , that I have prov'd that Palladius's Mission was to the Scots in Britain , and the Doctor has acknowledg'd , that this Mission of Palladius was Prior to that of Saint Patrick : and which is higher , the Doctor acknowledges that the Unconquer'd Nations beyond the Roman Wall , were the Christians spoke of by Tertullian ; and I have prov'd that we were one of these Unconquered Nations . And therefore , since we had the use of Letters before the Irish , Letters being the surest Vehicles of History , and Christianity the chief Nursery of Letters , it follows necessarily from the Doctor 's own Rules , that our Histories are more credible than the Irish. And this Argument holds equally good , whether we our selves were the Unconquer'd Nations , when Christianity was first planted , or became Masters by conquest of these Christians here , who had the early use of Letters : even as the English , or Saxons , had good grounds of knowledge , from the Letters and Learning of the Britans , whom they conquer'd . The next is , that we had greater opportunity to know our own Histories , and greater reason to use care and diligence in writing them , than the Irish , who were Strangers . The third is , that the Irish having err'd so grossly in the last , and most uncontroverted part of our History , and in which they contradict the Foreign and Contemporary Historians of other Nations , it cannot be urg'd that their Credibility is of any moment , in the more ancient and darker part of our Antiquities , and History , wherein they differ from us . And lastly , our Historians have for their Abilities been very famous for many Ages , in Foreign Nations , and amongst the best Criticks ; whereas we have seen no Histories from Ireland till of late , and much later than ours . And though we are far from having any low esteem of the Irish Abilities , yet we conceive , that the Doctor should remember that by the suggestion of his Countrymen , Pope Adrian gives the Kingdom of Ireland to Henry the Second of England , ad declarandum indoctis , & rudibus populis Christianoe fidei veritatem , &c. whereupon they writ a Letter to Pope Iohn , wherein they complain , that they were severely and cruelly us'd as Beasts , and therefore desire that his Holiness would confirm the Election they had made of Edward , Brother to King Robert the Bruce , for their King. The Learn'd Bishop Usher was pleas'd , in partiality to his own Country , to assert that this his Majesty's Kingdom was never called Scotland , till 1000 years after Christ. But the Reverend Bishop of St. Asaph finding that this was not tenable ; he onely asserts , that after the Year 900. we got the rest of the Country , and then it onely came to be called Scotland . Both these Opinions I have endeavoured to refute in the Seventh Section of my Book , where I have clear'd all this matter in nine Positions , to all which the Doctor is pleased to answer nothing , save ( 1. ) That I have unwarrantably asserted that the Name of Scots , doth originally belong to the Scots in Britain , and onely by way of Communication to these in Ireland . But I beg his pardon , to tell him , that I have no such Position , though for confirming my Answers to these two Reverend Bishops in the former Debates , I did onely for farther clearing the matter , assert that the old name under which Ireland was known to the Greeks was Ierna , and to the Latines Hibernia , which I prov'd from Bishop Usher himself . ( 2. ) I asserted that before the Year 400. there was no Author that made mention of Scotia , or Scoti , but when they meant our Country , and Country-men : and this I have prov'd without any Answer . But in the ( 3. ) place , I positively say , pag. 143. of my First Book , that I was not concerned to debate the Antiquity of the names of Scotia , or Scoti , but onely when we first setled here . And therefore though our Historians do assert that the Irish were first called Scots , that contradicts not any of my Positions . For though very anciently the Irish might be called Scots , yet about the time that the Romans and others begun to write of the Scots , the Books now extant do onely apply these Names to us , and to our Country . And the Authour of Ogygia does himself acknowledge , that the Romans first invented the Name of Scotland : and if so , it was probably applicable to Us : for they had much commerce with us , but none with Ireland . Amongst the many Citations which I adduced for proving that Scotland was called Ireland , in Bede's time , one was from his Ecclesiastical History , wherein Bede relates , that Egfrid , King of Northumberland , having sent an Army into Ireland under Bertus , he wasted the Country , and the Innocent People : and the next year , having sent an Army to waste the Province of the Picts , contrary to the advice of his Friends , and of St. Cuthbert , God suffered that Army to be destroyed , because the former year he had rejected their advice , that he should not invade Scotland which did not wrong him . And to clear that the Scotia here exprest was not Ireland , he adds the English and Scots who abide in Britain . This Passage ( as well as the others , which I have cited , and shall cite ) proves ( 1. ) That Scotland then has been promiscuously called by the names of Hibernia , and Scotia : for the same thing is said first to have been done in Scotia , and then in Hibernia . And this answers the Objection , Hiberni revertuntur domum , and where could their home be but in Ireland ? ( 2. ) It proves that this our Country was called Scotia in Beda's time , and so long before the Year 1000. which the Bishop denies . Nor can it be prov'd that the King of Northumberland went to make war in Ireland , otherwise than from Offlahartie's late Book , which is not to be put in balance with Beda , who was disinterested , and liv'd in the very time . To which the Doctor answers , that by Scotland must be there meant Ireland , because the Nation which Egfrid invaded , had been always kind to the English ; which cannot be said of our Scotland . But to this it is replied , that I have prov'd in my Book , from the same Beda ( who must be the best Interpreter of his own words ) that the English at that time were very kindly entertained by the Scots , and furnished with all things necessary : which kindness proceeded from an Union in Religion , which in those happy , and pious days , was the foundation of all kindness : and thus I have answered the Doctor 's Argument , but he has not answered mine . But to prove that Scotland was called Ireland in those days , and that this place of Beda's is applicable to our Country , and not to Ireland ; I cite the English Polychronicon , who says many evidences we have that this Scotland is ofttimes called ( Heght ) Hibernia , as Ireland does : for which he cites many Proofs , and particularly this Passage in Beda . If it is a common Saw , that the Country which now is nam'd Scotland , is an outstretching of the North part of Britain . This Lond hete sometime Albania , and hath that name of Albanactus , afterwards the Lond hete Pictavia , for the Picts reigned therein 1070 Years : and at last hete Hibernia , as Ireland hyght . And thereafter it is said at the end of that Page , many Evidences we have out of this Scotland , that it is oft called and Hyte Hibernia , as Ireland has : and particularly amongst many Citations out of Beda , he cites Egfridus , King of Northumberland , destroyed Ireland , &c. which is the Passage controverted . This Polychronicon is cited by Fordon , and was Prior to him , for as Vossius tells us , it was written by Ranulphus Higden , who died , Anno Christi 1363. and was translated by Iohannes Trevisa , who continu'd it to the Year 1398. From which I draw these Conclusions . ( 1. ) That this Country was called Scotland before the Year 1000. which overthrows the Bishop of St. Asaph's Assertion . ( 2. ) That our Country was called Hibernia , which answers most of all our Adversaries Arguments . ( 3. ) That this place in Bede is to be ascrib'd to us , notwithstanding Dr. Stillingfleet's reason , and Offlahartie's History . For proving likewise that Scotland was called Hibernia , in Beda's time , and by him , I produced among many other Passages that very clear one , Where he says that Aidan was sent from the Isle which is called Hy , which is the chief of the Scotish and Pictish Monasteries , and belongs to Britan ; Et ad jus Britanniae pertinet : albeit , speaking of Hy , in other places , he says it is in Hibernia . To which the Doctor answers , Doth not Beda in the same place say , that the Island Hy was given by the Picts , and not by the Scots to the Scotish Monks that came from Ireland ? But what a Paralogism is this ? For it might have been given by the Picts , and yet have been within the Territories of the Scots : for these neighbouring Nations did seise oft-times Places belonging to one another . And the Picts being sensible , that they were not able to keep this Place which was so remote from their own Territories , they did therefore the more easily mortify it to a Monastery . Nor could it otherwise have belong'd to the Picts : for it was never pretended that the Pictish Dominions extended to our Western Isles , or that they did reach farther than Clyd : and Beda himself does march them so . And the Shire of Argyle , and many Isles such , as Bute , lie betwixt Clyd and Icolmkill , or Hy : and it was never question'd , but that these belong'd to Us , and were the Seat of Our Kings . And Usher thinks that Beda was mistaken , in saying that the Picts gave this Isle to this Monastery . But ( 2. ) does this Answer prove , that it belong'd to Ireland , which is the onely Point here in debate . Or can there be any thing more inconsistent with that , than Beda's own words , which are , that it belong'd to Britain as a part of it ? And if it be a part of Britain , it cannot be in Ireland , otherwise , than because Scotland , which was a part of Britain , was then called Ireland . Nor does the situation of the Place contribute less to clear this , than Beda's clear Authority . For it was never pretended by the Irish , that our Western Isles , which lie upon our Coast , belong'd to Ireland . And the first thing that is known of them , is , that they belong'd to Scotland ; and since this Monastery and Isle is now in the possession of the Scots , and has been so for many Ages ; We desire the Learned Doctor , and his Irish Evidences , to condescend when , and by what War or Transaction the Irish lost that , or the other Isles : for if it had been theirs , we could not have got it , but by one of these two ways . Since then Hy was a part of our Scotland , it necessarily follows , that Aidan came not from the Northern Scots in Ireland , as Doctor Stillingfleet asserts : for the Bishop of Saint Asaph acknowledges , that Aidan was ordained at Hy , by the Bishop of Hy , and Dunkeld * , which he supposes with Usher to be then founded , and cites Bede † for his Voucher : and adds , that after Firian's death , Colman succeeded in the Bishoprick , who was also sent from Scotland , that is , from Hy ; and that he was a Bishop of Scotland : which must be our Scotland , for the reasons aforesaid , notwithstanding of what the Doctor says . And from all this we wonder , with the Doctor , that any that can carefully reade Beda , can dispute , what is so clearly said in him , that Scotland was called Hibernia ; and so we 'll conclude against him in his own words . But we wonder what the Doctor means , when he acknowledges that from Beda it appears , that the Scots had a Kingdom in Britain . But when he speaks of the Religion of the same Scots , he means the Scots of Ireland : this is indeed beyond my understanding : but I am sure , it can have no colour , from making the Ireland , wherein Icolmkill , or Hy is , an Isle distinct from Britain ; having in my former Book cleared , that our part of Scotland , was called an Isle , as contradistinguished from Britain , by the two Firths , Clyd , and Forth , being clos'd up by a Wall , and is therefore called an Isle by Tacitus , and others whom I formerly cited . To whom I now add several English Authours , as William of Malmsbury , who speaking of Britain , says , & per se , velut insulam , à Scotia divisa . And Bartholomoeus Anglicus says , that Scotia Regnum promontorium est , montibus & maris brachiis à Britannia separata : & Anglorum progenies , Britanniam insulam possidet . And therefore Beda speaking of Weremith in Northumberland , he tells us , that it is near to Scotland , and adds , that by this it may appear , that the remotest part of the Isle of Britain towards the North is Northumberland . Which could not have been true , if it had not been spoken upon the supposition , that our Country had been an Island ; for our Country lies benorth Northumberland ; in the Isle of Britain . All which are to be found in the Third Chapter of the Second Book of Fordon , with several others , which I here omit , rather as unnecessary , than impertinent . I add to these Paulus Diaconus , who speaking of Wars betwixt the Britains and Saxons , from the time of Ambrosius Aurelianus , says , that the Victory hung uncertain betwixt them , donec Saxones potentiores effecti , tota per longum Insula potirentur : And this must be onely understood of England , for the Saxons did not in his time , nor since conquer that part of Britain which belong'd to us . But by that he onely meant , that the Saxons conquer'd that part which belonged to the Romans , and was called an Isle , as contra-distinguished from ours . I prov'd this also from the Martyrologium Romanum , Abredonioe in Hibernia , Sancti Beani Episcopi , to which nothing is answered : And I now add to it , Baronius in not is , Beani vetera manuscripta ex quibus Molanus hac die fuit hic Episcopus Abredonensis . Having thus cleared the Antiquity of our Kings , and the truth of our Histories , by so solid Reasons , and from so good Authority . I hope the reverend Dr. Stillingfleet will be as Ingenuous , in retracting what he has written against the State , in these Points ; As he did very Commendably retract what he had written against the Government of his own Church , in his Irenicum : At least he will retract That insolent Expression , Praef. pag. 72. That our Antiquities are universally dis-esteem'd , amongst all Iudicious and inquisitive Men : Since all men have not written their opinion , nor has he read all Writers ; and this at least contradicts the many parts of his Book , wherein he acknowledges , that Lipsius and other great Criticks are of our side . And I have cited most of all the considerable Criticks , and have fully satisfied the insignificant Answers made by Dr. Stillingfleet to them ; and if I have left any Expression in all the Book unanswered , it is because it was unworthy of having been urged by Dr. Stillingfleet , or answered by me . And , though I could add many new Authours , who have owned our Antiquities ; yet , loving rather to reason , than to cite , I produce one , who not onely owns our Antiquities , but makes our Antiquities a strong Argument against the Supremacy of the Pope . For ( says he ) the Bishop of Rome cannot pretend , that the Church in Britain received the Christian Faith from Rome , since Scotland , a part of it , was Christian before the Romans had access to it . The Authour is the learned Lomeierus ; * who tells us , That the Britains had the knowledge of Letters 270 years before Christ : for Dornadilla King of the Scots wrote , before then , the Laws of Hunting observed to this day amongst the Subjects of that Kingdom , as Sacred even to this Age. And they were not amongst the last , who received the Christian Religion : for Tertul. advers . Iud. cap. 7. tells , that the places which were unaccessible to the Romans , had yielded to Christ. And from this he concludes , that they are Parasites , who flatter the Bishop of Rome , as universal Mo narch of the Church , since here were Christians , to whom the Romans had never access . From which I also draw these Conclusions : 1. Here is a Proof of our ancient Learning , and consequently a Foundation for the Credibility of our Annals . 2. Here is an acknowledgment of a King before Fergus the Second , and long before the Year 503 , proved too by Laws yet observ'd , which was a sure way of preserving his Memory ; and the matter of Fact is true , for we remember those Laws as his to this very day . * 3. Here is an acknowledgment , that Tertullian's Citation is applicable to us . 4. It seems by this more just , that the Bishop of St. Asaph should rather have sustained our Antiquities , as an Argument against Popery , than rejected them for answering an Argument against Episcopacy , Religion being of greater consequence than Government , and the inference being stronger in the one Case than the other ; for he should have urg'd that it is not probable , that we who were Enemies to the Roman Nation would have submitted to the Roman Church ; but would have rather lookt upon their Missionaries as Spies , especially in those barbarous times , when Nations were considered more than Doctrine : for though Religion already received , might have Cemented us ; yet before it was submitted to , so great an enmity as was betwixt us , might have obstructed Commerce and Kindness ; from which probably proceeded our aversion to the Romish Rites as to Easter , and other Points for many Ages , in which we followed the Greek Church in opposition to the Romish . But leaving this Argument to be prosecuted by Dr. Stilling fleet , it cannot be denied but both the learned Blondel cited by the Bishop of St. Asaph , and Lomeierus were both convinced , that our Antiquities were undeniable , for no man in his Wits draws Arguments from Premisses which himself thinks uncertain . Possevinus also the Jesuit , in his Bibliotheca Selecta , inserts among the Historians whom he recommends as most Authentick , an account of our Antiquities : Wherein among other things , we are asserted to have had a Christian Church here in the Year 203. and the Citations from Tertullian and St. Ierom are appropriated to us , and to these are added three other Citations , agreeing with them , one from St. Chrysostome in Serm. de Pentecost . a second from the same Authour , in his Homilia quòd Deus sit homo , and a third from Petrus Venerabilis , lib. 8. epist. 16. And therefore , as in my last Book I did conclude , that our Antiquity behoved to be very remarkable , since before Bishop Usher's time , every Nation made us most ancient , next to themselves ; so in this Book I may conclude , that our Christianity must be much ancienter , than those reverend Divines would make even our settlement , since men of all persuasions concur in it , and speak of it with great Elogies , and draw consequences from it , for the honour of their own Church : Which according to the Doctor 's principles cited by me , are the surest marks of Conviction . Thus I hope I have sufficiently illustrated this Subject , and therefore I am not resolved any farther , either to burthen it , or my Readers . For clearing some Passages in this Book , the Reader may be pleased to consider seriously , these following Additions and Alterations . PAG. 3. lin . 4. for Kenneth III. reade Kenneth II. Pag. 5. lin . 10. Add to what I have said concerning Lese Majesty ; That Dr. Stillingfleet , Praef. p. 5. calls this , the sharpest and most unhandsome Reflexion in all my First Book , and I am glad he does so ; for if there be any severity in these my words , Luddus is to be blamed , and not I : for my words in my Letter to my Lord Chancellour , p. 11. are — and since Luddus owns , that he durst not deny the British descent from Brutus ; lest he might thereby wrong the Majesty of the English Nation ; I admire , that any of the Subjects of Great Britain did not think it a degree of lese Majesty , to injure and shorten the Royal Line of their Kings . By which it may very easily appear , that I did take the word Lese Majesty in a Rhetorical , and not in a legal sense , though I find , that Dr. Stilling fleet does not answer my Objections , even supposing the word to be there otherwise taken ; for it seems for ought that 's yet answered , that to injure and shorten the Royal Line , is a degree of lese Majesty ; that is to say , it tends ( in Luddus's own words ) to wrong the Majesty of the British Monarchy . Pag. 8. lin . 10. Put out these words , — and this is clear also by the Book of Pasley . Pag. 9. lin . 17. Instead of these words , that the People deposed Kings ; reade , that the People sometimes de facto deposed Kings in those ancient barbarous times ; ibidem , lin . 23. Instead of these words , till Kenneth the Third's time , reade , long after Fergus the Second's time . Pag. 20. lin . 19. For these words , and the inquisitive Bede was not able to reach so far back in the year 700. reade , that Bede made it not his business , to search out secular Antiquities , having onely design'd ( as is clear by his Book ) to write of us in so far as was necessary , for his Ecclesiastical History , which needed not the helps of the old Manuscripts in our Monasteries . Ibid. l. 14. Put out the words , ut fertur , as they say , a word used in the remotest Antiquity . For farther clearing Pag. 22 , 23 , 24. Cap 2. Whether the Meatae and Caledonii were Britains distinct from the Scots and Picts , whom Dion calls the Unconquered Nations , and who the Doctor says , were different from the Scots and Picts ; It 's fit to add to what I said on this subject , that our Adversaries differ among themselves , and contradict one another in this point ; for Cambden , whom St. Asaph follows , makes the Picts Caledonians , or Extraprovincial Britains , thinking it thereby more easie to make the settlement of one Nation late , than to make both so ; because thus he differs less from received Histories : But the Doctor sticks not to make the settlement of the Picts later , than that of the Scots ; because he never finds the name of the Picts mentioned , till about the time the Scots are , and therefore refutes Cambden : whereas Offlaharty rejects this reason , contending , as we do , that it is ridiculous to say , that a Nation is no older , than from its being mentioned in History under such a name . Pag. 29. lin . 18. For &c. 492. reade &c. pag. 492. Pag. 32 lin . 3. After the word Piracy , add , And whereas the Doctor objects , that this Wall was unnecessarily built betwixt the two Seas to hinder the incursions of the Scots and Picts ; seeing , I supposed , the custome was to cross over the two Firths , and to land on this side of the Wall ; for so they landed on the British side , and left the Wall behind them , and consequently the expence had been unnecessary , and the Romans and Britains very idle in building it . To this it is answered , that I very justly supposed that the invasions were over the Firths ; and though they had left the Wall behind them after their landing , yet the objection concludes not , that therefore the building of the Wall was unnecessary ; for the Britains being separated and distinguished from the Scots and Picts by two Firths which did meet onely in a short neck of Land , they completed this natural fortification of Water , by building a Wall on the Land where it was wanting , thereby defending themselves against the irruptions of their Enemies ; so that the Scots and Picts being debarred from entring by this Neck , which was the easie and ordinary way before , were after necessitated to invade by water , formerly the more difficult way . And this is not onely a conjecture arising from the clear probability of the thing ( which were sufficient to answer the Doctor 's Objection that is onely founded on a bare conjecture ) but it 's the express reason given by Beda , who lived so near the time and the place , and who speaking of this Wall , saith , Fecerunt autem eum inter duo freta , vel sinus ( de quibus diximus ) maris per millia passum plurima , ut ubi aquarum munitio deerat , ibi praesidio valli fines suas ab hostium irruptione defenderent — from which I must also add , that the Seas we came over , were our own Firths abovemention'd , and not the Irish Sea ; for the Wall is said to be betwixt the two Firths and Bays of the Sea , and thereafter in the same Chapter it's said fugavit eos transmaria , which are also the words of Gildas : All which is appliéd to our Firths , and not applicable to the Irish Sea , which can neither be called Firth nor Bay in the singular number , nor Maria in the plural , it being called Mare Hibernicum , as our Seas are called Mare Germanicum , or Deucaledonicum . And that the Irish Sea was not passable , nor fit for such Anniversary Invasions in Corroughs , is ( beside all I have said formerly ) clear from the English Writers themselves , Bartholomaeus Anglicus , and the English Polychronicon in their descriptions of Ireland . But the Sea that is between Britain and Ireland is all the year round full of great waves , and uneasie ; so that men can seldom sail it securely . This Sea is sixscore miles broad , and Bartholomaeus Anglicus says of it , — Mare autem Hibernicum versus Britanniam undosum & inquietum est , & toto anno vix navigabile . The Doctor , to evite the force of our Arguments , makes the Caledonii and Meatae to differ from the Scots and Picts , and to be Britains dwelling near the Wall ; who being forced to attend there for the defence of the Wall against the Romans , left the more Northern parts of the Isle waste , which they formerly inhabited , as the Bloud doth the extremities , when it runs to the Heart : Whereupon the Scots invaded their Possessions from the West out of Ireland , and the Picts from Scandanavia . But besides the Arguments I urged formerly in my Second Chapter , I now add , that first , Beda makes onely mention of five Nations , who inhabited Britain , viz. the Britains , Romans , Picts , Scots and Saxons , whereas if the Caledonii and Meatae had been different from the Scots and Picts ( and not the Highlanders and Lowlanders of the Scots and Picts under different names ; as I have formerly proved them to be ) then there had not onely been five , but seven Nations inhabiting Britain . Whereas the Doctor contends that Dion must interpret Beda's words , it 's more reasonable that Beda , who wrote long after Dion , should interpret his words ; since Beda is so express in describing who were Inhabitants of old , and in his time ; and Dion , who was before Beda , could not interpret him . 2. Either the Scots and Picts came into the Possessions of these Caledonii and Meatae before the Romans , or after : if they came in before , then the Scots and Picts must have come and setled here before the Year 412. because the Romans left this Isle altogether about that time , without ever returning , and consequently were setled here before the Year 503. which is the Bishop of St. Asaph's Position : But if after the Romans left the Isle , then it was not when the Caledonii and Meatae were necessitated to come for the defence of the Wall against the Romans , which is Doctor Stillingfleet's Position . If the Irish had overcome the Extraprovincial Britains , whom , as the Doctor confesses , the Romans could not overcome ; this Conquest must needs have fallen out near to those times wherein Gildas and Beda lived , and whereof they write the Wars and Vastations so particularly and exactly ; and especially since the Learned Doctor gives as a Rule , that a negative testimony is concluding , where the Writer is knowing , and had opportunity to know , and the thing omitted is of importance to the subject treated of ; all this quadrats exactly with this case : and though these Authours had omitted this Conquest , yet it is incredible that these Ancient Irish Annals ( by the Doctor alone so much preferred to ours ) would have omitted the full and clear relation of a Conquest so very glorious to them , as the overcoming Nations , who could never be conquered by the mighty power of the Romans ; especially since this must have been , not some particular Victories onely , but one intire extinction of the Meatae and Caledonii , for these are never after so much as mentioned : And it 's yet more incredible to think that we could have overthrown these Extraprovincial Britains , after the Romans had been forced to leave the Island , and yet never be able to prevail so far against them , when they had the Britains , Romans , and Us to be their Enemies ; it being acknowledged that we were by continual incursions endeavouring to settle here about 200 years before the Romans left the Isle . Whereas the Doctor cites Fordon distinguishing the Picts and Scots from the Caledonii , and Meatae ; and making them to be the Extraprovincial Britains in the 36th Chapter of the Third Book of his Scoto-Chronicon , I have considered the place cited , but I find no such thing in that Chapter . Indeed in the 37th Chapter of the Second Book I find Fulgentius is called Dux Britannorum Albanensium , and that the Britanni Boreales , are distinguished from the Britanni Australes ; but there is no mention made in that place of the Caledonii and Meatae ; nor does the division of South and North - Britains make any thing against us , but on the contrary , it seems very clear by that Chapter , that the Scots and Picts had been long setled in Scotland , before the Romans left this Isle ; for it 's said there , that the Scots and Picts having ( according to their accustomed manner ) over-run the Countrey , notwithstanding the assistence given by the Romans to these Britains , Fulgentius was forced to make a peace with them . Pag. 36. lin . 2. For Fourth Chapter , reade Fifth Chapter . And here add , that by these words ( totam cum Scotus Iernam movit ) may be meant of our being forced to retreat or return to Ireland , when we were expelled by Maximus ; which agrees with the time here describd by Claudian . Pag. 36. lin . 10. For this , reade thus . Pag. 38. lin . 16. The Comma is before , but should be after Usher . And for do , reade doth . Pag. 41. I desire the Reader may be pleased to observe , First , That Offlahartie himself confesses , that the words ( soli Britanni ) in Eumenius , are understood to be in the Genitive , as Scaliger and we contend ; and not in the Nominative , as the Bishop and the Doctor alledge . And here I would have the Doctor to mind that true Maxime of Law cited by himself ; a Witness which a man bringeth for himself ought to be admitted against him . Secondly , That the Bishop of St. Asaph makes use of Plantin's Edition in the Catalogue prefixt by him , and in that Edition Eumenius's words are pointed as I have cited them . Thirdly , I wish the Reader to observe that in my First Book against the Bishop of St. Asaph , Pag. 70. lin . 8. the particle & ( in Eumenius his words , Natio adhuc rudis & soli Britanni ) is printed ( it ) and so the force of the Argument is not understood , which was , that ( & ) copulat diversa , and so the Natio rudis could not be the same with soli Britanni , but must needs have been of the Genitive Case , and the words must have run , Pictis & Hibernis soli Britanni , the Picts and Irish of the British Isle . Pag. 45. For Britons , reade Britains . And here add , that the words in Tacitus are Nobilissimi totius Britanniae , which does not at all prove Galgacus his men to have been Britons , but Britains ; and so this agrees very well with the Scots , who were Caledonian Britains . Pag. 41. lin . 19. For Scotice primae , reade Scoticae pruinae . Pag. 51. lin . 2. For Fourth Chapter , reade Fifth Chapter . Pag. 57. lin . 17. Add , And that he was sent to the Scots in Britain is clear . Pag. 60. lin . penult . For Nomination , reade Omination . Pag. 65. lin . 3. For the Conquered Nations , reade relates to the Unconquered Nations . Pag. 68. lin . 10. Put a Comma after the word Mortal . Pag. 72. lin . 15. In place of , a Nation before Constantius ' s time , say , a Nation setled here before Constantius ' s time . Ibid. lin . 22. add , That these words in Scaliger , & Scoti sunt adhuc in Hibernia , must be so interpreted as to consist with Scaliger's former Arguments for proving our early settlement here , and therefore the sense must be ; That there are yet in Ireland some of these Ancient Scots , or That the Nation from which the Albanian Scots are descended are yet in Ireland ; neither of which contradicts our ancient Settlement here . Pag. 76. lin . penult . For these words , Neither is Buxhornius special , and has been misled by Usher ; reade , And Buxhornius has been misled by Ubbo Emmius , whom he cites , and is later than Usher . Pag. 77. lin . 8. For Spartan , reade Spartian . Ibid. lin . 12. For all that , reade that which . Pag. 81. lin . 16. Add , That the Doctor , Pref. p. 23. is very unjust in saying that our Antiquities went not down with Iohn Major , and that he gave little credit to the being of Fergus the First ; for it 's clear that he repeats onely the Story of Gathelus , Scota , and Simon Brek , but is very positive in asserting the Story of Fergus the First , and shews particularly that Beda did not contradict that part of our History , but gives the true and reconciling distinction , that Fergus laid the foundation of the Monarchy , and Reuda or Rether enlarg'd it ; and reckons above 700 years betwixt the two Ferguses , and relates the Genealogy of Alexander the Third , as it was repeated by that Highland Gentleman at the Coronation . Pag. 83. lin . 13. For these words , he could have no warrant but Tradition , reade He could have no sufficient warrant without Tradition . Pag. 94. lin . penult . Put out the word Saint from Fergus . Pag. 97. lin . ult . Immediately after the word Verimund , add these words , many material things which are not in Boethius . Pag. 98. lin . 11. Put out these words , which are not in Boethius . Pag. 108. lin . 25. After Alarick , add the word is . Pag. 116. lin . ult . When Kenneth is called the first Monarch of Scotland , The meaning is , he was the first Monarch of all Scotland , having subdued the Picts , and therefore he is so termed by Fordon . Pag. 119. lin . 17. For , it is likely , reade is it likely . Pag. 121. For de Muro lapideo , reade de Mora lapidea . i. e. the stony Moor. Pag. 129. lin . 16. For Ferchard's second Son , reade Ferchard the Second his Son. Pag. 167. lin . For Tich , reade Fich . Pag. 175. lin . 14. For created , reade treated of . The Reader is intreated to excuse these mistakes in the printing , since they were occasion'd by the Authour 's great distance from the Press . And if the Reader doubt of the old Alliance betwixt France and Scotland , the Articles of the old League shall be printed , for they have been lately found upon record in an old Register at Paris , and bear date 791. agreeing exactly with what I have said page 109. of my First Book ; and with page 74. of this : and this proves us to have been a Nation setled long before , and of very considerable reputation abroad in the World : for how is it imaginable that Charles the Great , King of France , and Emperour of the West , should have thought it either his honour or interest to engage in so strict an alliance with a pack of Pilsering Vagabond Robbers , confin'd to the then very insignificant County of Argyle , as is most unjustly alledg'd against us . THE END . The Reverend Dr. Stillingfleet is pleased to reflect upon the Authour 's Ius Regium , but that the Famous University of Oxford had other thoughts of that Book , the Reader may understand by the following Letter , which passed their Publick Seal , and was sent , as it 's here set down , to the Authour . Honorabili plurimum Domino , Domino Georgio M'henzie , Equiti Aurato Regio Regni Scotiae Advocato . Illustrissime & Clarissime Domine , CUM Regio Principum Iure & Majestate nihil sit sanctius , utpote quod iis inviolatis & Regni gloria & subditorum pax unice conservantur , facile possis credere , quam acceptissimos Academiae , quae Regi semper fida gloriatur perstitisse , honores contuleris , cum vestras Regiae causae vindicias nobis non tantum transmiseris , sed & in publicum simul , iniquo hoc tempore vocaris patrocinium . Si quae enim ( post probatam bellis civilibus fidem , ignibusque traditos impios libellos , de quibus originem & vires sumserat perduellio ) ulterioris officii partes supererant , eas omnes vestro explevimus beneficio qui causam principis una videmur defendisse , quod Doctissimi laboris effeceris participes . Qui ipsa fundamenta penitus convellens quibus , inimica semper Regibus , plebis improba innititur causa , de ipsa seditione vel Bellicâ potiorem reportasti victoriam ; cum enim armis miles rebelles cogat in tempus tantum gladios recondere , Tu , invictissimae rationis viribus , imperas ne iterum stringantur . Languet quidem tantum quae debellatur , non extinguitur seditio , devictumque licet humilis & abjecti vulgus imperii patiens videatur , vel minimâ elucente spe res novas continuo molitur . Adeo ut Regias partes verius sustentet qui suadet quam qui cogit parere , rebusque Imperii honestius consulat , qui inconcussae fidei divinam statuens originem , Reverentiam Principum non metum incu●it , Regibusque ex officio docet , non re , vel tempore turpiter inservire . Hinc fit ut quamvis Scotorum virtuti plurimum debeatur , quod rebelles bis prosligaverint , Tibi plus sit referendum quod Buchanum & Miltonum : quorum licet de scriptis derivatum plurimas Regni partes venenum infecerit , Tu tamen grassante diu malo , tam felici tandem remedio subvenisti ut conscientiae , Rationi , legibusque Regni antiquissimis necesse est renuncient si qui in posterum sint qui in Deum Regemque una Rebelles audeant iterum movere arma . Quod itaque nostra ex parte Unicum possumus , inter libros aeternae memoriae sacros , Vestros Academia reponet , honores Autori exoptans quos ipsa nequit conferre , soliusque possit Principis Munificentia : Nimirum ut penitus fractis per te Fanaticorum viribus , sentiat Rex quantum possit vel Unius subditi literata fides , & Ipse experiaris quantum mereatur . Haec eo , quo mittimus animo accipias , & inter affectûs indicia aestimes quo Te prosequitur Illustrissime Domine Nomini vestro addictissima , Universitas Oxoniensis . E Domo nostrae Convocationis V. Id. Iunii , MDCLXXXIV . Books printed for , and sold by Joseph Hindmarsh . DAvelas's History of the Civil Wars of France . Poems by several Hands , and on several Occasions , collected by N. Tate . Miscellany ; being a Collection of Poems by several Hands , collected by Mrs. A. Behn . The Works of Mr. Iohn Oldham , together with his Remains . A Discourse of Monarchy ; more particularly of the Imperial Crowns of England , Scotland and Ireland , with a close from the whole as it relates to the Succession of I. Duke of York . Practical Rules of Christian Piety , containing the sum of the whole duty of a true Disciple of Christ. History of Count Zozimus translated into English. The Doctour's Physician , or Dialogues concerning Health , translated out of the Original French. Butler's Ghost ; or Hudibras 4th Part , with Reflexions on these Times . Ienkinsius Redivivus ; or the Works of that Grave , Learned , truly Loyal and Courageous Judge Ienkins whilst a Prisoner in the Tower , and Newgate , by command of the Rebellious Long Parliament , begun at Westminster , November the 3d , 1640. Wherein is plainly set forth the just Power and Prerogative of the King , the Privilege of Parliament , the Liberty of the Subject , and what is Treason according to the Laws of the Land. The Familiar Epistles of Collonel Henry Martin found in his Misses Cabinet . A true Account of the Captivity of Thomas Phelps at Machaness , in Barbary , and of his strange Escape in company of Edmund Baxter and others , as also of the burning two of the greatest Pirat Ships belonging to that Kingdom , in the River of Mamora , upon the 13th of Iune , 1685. By Thomas Phelps . The Perjur'd Phanatick ; or the Malitious Conspiracy of Sir Iohn Croke of Chilton , Henry Larimore , and other Fanaticks , against the life of Robert Hawkins , Clerk , and late Minister of Chilton , occasioned by his suit for Tythes . An Historical Treatise of the Prerogatives of the Church of Rome , and of her Bishops ; written in French by Mounsier Maimburg , translated into English by A. Lovell . Notes, typically marginal, from the original text Notes for div A50442-e220 Praef. pag. 5. Chap. 5. pag. 267. & passim . Notes for div A50442-e650 Praef. p. 3d. Praef. pag. 72. Notes for div A50442-e1520 Pag. 2. * Dr. Stillingfl . praef . pag. 23. † Cap. 5. p. 285. C. 5. p. 285. * Bed. L. c. 14. * Verum eadem Britannia Romanis usque ad Caium Julium Caesarem incognita suit . * L. 1. c. 5. * Page 18. † C. 5. p. 285. ‖ Pref. p. 60. * Brit. Descript. p. 24. * C. 18. * Utraque gens eam inseder at provinciam quae jam diu Scotia est appellata . † C. 19. * P. 13. Edit . Iocelia . * Hiberni revertuntur domum . * P. 21. * C. 1. Parag. 5. * C. 5. P. 283. * Quos sibi Caledonia viros seposuerat . † Integri & Indomiti . * Indigenae an advecti . Hist. Univers . de reb . gest . reg . Scot. * Lib. 1. c. 37. Many evidences we have that Scotland is oft call'd and hecht Hibernia , as Ireland doth . Agente palladio Scotorum Episcopo a Coelestino in Britanniam misso ut Pelagianam haeresin extingueret . Rationar . tempor ad . an . 429. * P. 59. † C. 2. P. 53. ‖ P. 56. * P. 68. † P. 53. * C. 7. contr . Iudaeos as it is translated by St. Asaph , praef . p. 8. * Habet enim progeniem Scoticae gentis de Britannorum vicinia . * Et Scoti hanc genti suae antiquitatem mihi debent . * De Occident : Imp. l. 6. p. 141. Notes for div A50442-e13300 * Antiquit. Hibern . c. 5. † Praef. p. 28. * De Antiq. Hibern . c. 5. † De Bell. Gal. l. 6. * L. 17. c. ult . Notes for div A50442-e16540 Pref. p. 5. Lib. 3. c. 2. Lib. 5. cap. 60. Which is not Lib. 4. but l. 3. Lib. 2. c. 12. 13. ●● . and lib. 3. ● . ●● . Et in 〈◊〉 Recapitulatione . Lib. 3. c. 1. Ford. l. 8. c. 1. l. 1. c. 39. l. 12 , 13 , 14. fol. 48. 57. l. 5. passim . Boeth . l. 11 , 12 , 13 , & 15. passim . Euch. lib. 7 , 8 , & 9. passim . Les● . lib. 6 , & 7. passim . Ford. lib. 5. at the beginning . Maj. lib. 3. c. 5. Boeth . lib. 12. Buch. l. 7. Les● . l. 5. Ford. lib. 3 , & 4. Maj. lib. 3. Boeth . lib. 8 , 9 , 10. Buch. lib. 5. Chap. 5. * Lib. 2. 5 , & 6. L. 4. † Lib. 2. & 3. ‖ Pag. 10. * Lib. 14. cap : 27. Notes for div A50442-e21570 Pref. p. 47. Ogyg. part 3. cap. 1. Ogyg. part 3. cap. 2. Chron. Mail. p. 136. edit . Oxon. 1684. Ogyg. p. 480. Praef. p. 25. Ogyg. Pr. p. 27. * Lib. 14. c. 44. Lib. 11. c. 15. Education du Prince , l. 1. chap. 1. p. 39. Praef. p. 4. 46. Ogyg. p. 468. Ogyg. p. 114 , & 264. Pag. 165. 190. 327. Ogyg. p. 475. Chap. 5. pag. 282. Praef. & Chap. 5. passim . Praef. p. 45 , 46. * Ogyg. p. 467. Verum aliquot desider at is Distichis , integrum Apographum reperire non contigit ; aliàs absolutum ex eo Catalogum contexere non dubitaremus . Stillingfleet , chap. 5. p. 271. Praef. p. 51. Praef. p. 48. * Still . chap. 1. p. 35. Vid. Bul. in Fordon , lib. 12. cap. 33. Fordon , ibid. P. 348. Lib. 4. cap. 26. Lib. 3. cap. 27. Lib. 1. cap. 37. Lib. 1. de Scotia cap. 39. Lib. 4. cap. 22. Voss. de Hist. Lat. lib. 3. Lib. 3. cap. 3. * Cap. 5. p. 103 , 104 , 105. † Hist. 3. 5. pag. 171 , 172. & 3. 5. p. 166. Praef. p. 69. Scotiae propinquum . Ex quibus patet quod ultima pars insulae Britanniae versus Boream est Northumbria . Epit. hist. Rom. p. 672. Decr. 16. pag. 783. Pag. 784. * Joh. Lomeierus de Bibliothecis , p. 149. Edit . 2. Ex Germaniâ transfretamus ad penitus toto divisos orbe Britannos , qui quidem literarum cognitionem diu ante Christi tempora habuisse dicuntur : Anno enim ante Christum natum 270. Dornadilla Maini silius , Scotorum Rex , praecepta venandi scriptis commisit , & subditis suis servanda proposuit : quae leges & nostro adhuc seculo , seu sacrae , observantur . Fidem Christianam non postremi receperunt . Tertull. adv . Judaeos , cap. 7. Britannorum inaccessa Romanis loca , Christo vero subdita . Audiant hoc Romani Pontificis Gnathones , qui ejus universalem Monarchiam in Ecclesiam quovis modo stabilire conantur . Britanni fidem acceperunt in illis locis quo Romanis aditus non patebat . Qui posset dari Episcopus universalis , cùm nullus unquam fuerit Monarcha politicus , qui sibi totum terrarum orbem subjecerit ? Quamvis Romanorum imperatores hac vanâ opinione inflatos Spiritus gesserunt , ut se totius orbis Dominos crederent , cùm sanè modicam ejus partem obtinerent . * And though it may be objected that he had this from our Historians , yet it still proves that he and others believe our Historians . Lib. 16. Cap. 5. Notes for div A50442-e32910 Camb. Brit. pag. 82. Chap. 5. p. 240. Lib. 1. cap. 12. Polychr . lib. 1. cap. 32. Lib. 15. cap. 80.