an answer to the bishop of rochester's second letter to the earl of dorset &c. by an english-man. approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing a estc r ocm this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) an answer to the bishop of rochester's second letter to the earl of dorset &c. by an english-man. englishman. charlton, mr. [ ], [i.e. ] p. printed for a. smith, london : mdclxxxix [ ] attributed to mr. charlton by nuc pre- imprints. pages - repeated in paging. imperfect: print show-through. reproduction of original in the huntington library. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng sprat, thomas, - . church of england -- history. religious tolerance -- england. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - apex covantage keyed and coded from proquest page images - robyn anspach sampled and proofread - robyn anspach text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion an answer , to the bishop of rochester's second letter . an answer to the bishop of rochester's second letter to the earl of dorset , &c. by an english-man . london , printed for a. smith , mdclxxxix . an answer to the bishop of rochester's second letter , &c. right reverend , acts of mercy descend with power , and come well recommended from the crown , to be received with the highest gratitude by the people : but acts of justice are our lasting securities ; and tho' we are aptto pitty the afflicted , yet publick crimes require publick and real , expiations . such as i am , from observation and good wishes , pretend to discern safety , and the kingdom in a state of recovery , past danger of relapse ; but justice must be vindicated . there are measures , in proper season , necessary for confirming all , least the government seem precarious and , desperate persons , having screwed up the preparatories for our ruin to the height , may discourage , very useful subjects , if , instead of effectual attonements , they shall be able to word us into their impunity . in good earnest , my lord , nothing urges a sensible man more to speak his mind freely , than while his purse is draining , or blood letting out in the rescue of his fellow subjects ( and the more remote they are , the more at heart it is with him ) to find the enemies of his country , and their peace , at home , in plenty , and ease , scarce tributary , but remaining in preferment , or enjoying the acquisitions of rapine ; ready , perhaps , for more upon the first opportunity , and in the mean time , under the tenderness of some illustrious , spotless , friend , between a smile and disdain , laughing in their sleeves , at the worshippers of truth , and despising the companions of honesty . i am so much a roman , as to shed a tear for an acquaintance in misery , but cannot forget who condemned a son. when i hear it said , spare him for his parts ? my reply is , punish him the more , and not make that which explains his condemnation , the reason of his indemnity , i can no more excuse an ill man , for his good parts , than , i would be supposed to write against the church of england , in answering the bishop of rochester , or to arraign the profession of the law , from whence so many of the nobility , are descended , in saying , there have been wicked judges , and as bad councellors . the text that informs me , the samaritan was neighbour to the traveller , tells me , likewise , who was not . he is my neighbour , who pours oyl into my wounds , and my friend , that lets me retain the image of god , in the freedom of a man. wit , and parts , are of full age at five and twenty , and must form into judgment , with reference to some fundamental of principle , by thirty , otherwise , it is an escape , if he runs not into depravation , and a narrow one , if the publick justice of his country do's not at one time , or other , overtake his extraordinary actions . i am , therefore , english-man enough to hope for justice , and christian enough to desire it in mercy , yet so exerted , that she may shew her head , in this glorious revolution , and call to account , those unfaithful servants who delivered up her keys , & notorious offenders , that broke in upon her administration , pursuing her assertors to destruction , if the same god , who many thousand years ago brought the children of israel out of egypt , had not remembred us in her low estate , and excited this heroick prince to assist the restoring our paths , in the establishment of our religion and laws ; secure for ages : unless divided , through prejudice , and trifling disappointments , instead of joining , as one arm , against our common adversaries abroad , regardless of the whole , we part into contemptible faction , and labour among our selves ; or , frighted into a stupidity at the very sight of our escape , we become unserviceable to our own advantages ; or rather , degenerated by a vicious age , we have lost our courage , and our priests their zeal . if the markets of fortune do not take up our thoughts , the fields of honour are open to all our virtues ; the desolation in ireland calls for our sharpest resentment , and the outrage of france is a scene worthy our gallantry . things , like men , have their climacterick , they may out live , but they shall languish ; periods , also , are set , the harvest of impiety may be ripe for the avenger , and the visible concurrence of human means is a sign the decree is gone out . the authorities are too many to be repeated , and discoursed upon in the compass of a letter , but they are known and satisfactory to all , whose interest , affection , or long habit of maxim controuls not the use of their judgment ; and too strong to be confuted in a day , when the most noble part of liberty , the dictates of reason are allowed , vouching to us , that kings by a general derogation from the laws , they are trusted to support , may distress themselves . it is not impossible , but liberty regained in one quarter of the world , may sound charmingly into another , and wisdom prevail against bigotry to an empty name . constitution of government , and ancient laws may gain a preference before the will or empire , and considerate people groaning under heavy burthens , if a friendly hand appears to ease then shoulders may incline to throw them down , and hearken after a clear possession of religion , and property with old age , under their own vines and fig-trees , rather than fatigue in slavery , to be driven up and down , as chaff , by the breath of lust , and training up their children , from generation to generation , to pall untimely sacrifices to the wild efforts of ambition . nor is any prince , so far above the reach of fate , but if the happy and wise restorer prove comprehensive to fix nations upon their respective solid interests , uniting contraries , as in the body of man , so to ballance , and from thence to work up one mighty compound in the bodies of state , but the nursery of the cardinal may happen to end in convincing the oppressor . the time i parted with to undress the commissioner in my last , my lord was to come the better at the adviser in this , and tho' i might reduce the historian to another character with ease , yet taking no pleasure in accusation , i will consider some paragraphs in the beginning of your second , introducing me to your notions of councel at the latter end , and refer all the rest to those , who more concern'd in the reflections , may if they think fit , find a more compendious way of answer . the first paragraph of the letter . my lord , i cannot in good manners make my address to your lordship in another letter , without premising my most humble thanks for your favourable acceptance of the former , and for your kind recommendation of my plea to men of honour and goodness , by the powerful authority of your approving it , and now , my lord , since you have in so generous a manner , admitted me once to be your client , i am come again to put my whole cause into your hands . for , it was my chance , i know not how to have a share in one , or two other public affairs of the late times , as obliges me to a second defence . though i have always thought , that next to the committing offences , nothing can be more grievous to an ingenuous mind , than to be put upon the necessity of making apologies . answer . upon what terms the powerful earl of dorset admitted your person , accepted and recommended your plea , is strange to none , who have the honour to know that lord , the strength of his unquestionable judgment gave way to the object of his compassion ; but if his lordship had vouchsafed me leave to publish such a plea , a thought would have come in my head , that he put me upon my country , and the most i could hope from his indulgence was , that if they found me guilty of ignorance , he would not trouble himself to charge me with more understanding , than my present circumstances required , and from that minute should have determined with what regard to move towards his lordship in a second ; for tho' easy to be intreated , is the very note of greatness , and from the consideration of infirmity , the worst of men sink gently with them , nor is disdain to be seen in their countenances without a line of charity ; yet , on the other side , my lord , the uncorrect looseness of argument profanes honour , and care is to be taken by men of talent , least the dignity of the patronage , lessen in the presumption of the client ; not , that the gravity of your pen ought to approach his lordship with the ceremony of an ambassador ; nor yet , my lord , after a daub of vain complement , with such an indifference , or negligence of hand , as if your design was upon the quality , not the authority you address to . a meen between both , agreeable to the case , with respect to the person , soft but withal masculine , is far better written to a lord , than , it was my chance , i know not how to have a share , &c. that language cannot usher an apology with reputation into the opinion of the most uncurious , i fancy after one letter , with so much ignorance in it ; such was my unhappiness to have share , &c. a style more becoming your condition , my lord , than chance , or i know not how , in another , more pressing into the good nature of the english-man , because the one has in it , a symptom of reluctancy , the other , of force or disaffection , and looks as if the man was still the same inward ( which heaven forbid ) but our redemption against his will , had put him to the necessity of apology , for his share in the enslaving us. it was your chance , you know not how , in your sleep , it may be , to have a great many papers conveyed under your pillow , which made you dream of black-birds and gold-finches , of goose quills and crow quills , assassinations , and bow upon bow , where the steeple of bow , brought in the story of the cross-bow , and a thousand fantastio miscellanies , the ramble of a mercurial working-brain , and from the natural aversion you have to any business , that may reflect severely , your inclination rather leading you to the other extream , that is , rather to commend too much , what in the least seems well done , than to aggravate what is ill done by others , for instance , my lord , tarentum in your satyr upon the french historiographer where you bring in the presbyterians pleasing themselves with expectation of religious liberty , from a share they had in the restoration of charles the second , or troubled at forgetting the promise of breda , and from the innate , healing quality you are indued with , rather to commend too much , what in the least seems well done , than to aggravate what is ill done by others , charity all over , you submit to honour them , as thus far contributory to the blessed work , that if they had not driven him out , he had never been restored . from that natural aversion you have to reflect , your inclination we all know , leading you to panegyrick between sleeping and waking , your lordship writ , that which king james the second calling for the papers , and having read them , and altered divers passages ( not telling us , what those alterations are , but no doubt , for the good of the protestant religion . ) caused to be printed , by his own authority ( perfectly against your will ) as to be seen before the book , and in every line of it ( your lordship being wholly passive , and rather bearing a share of grief for the victims , than contributing to the fall of their honours ( the dearest part of them ) after dispatching their bodies , and came out under the name of history , deserving another denomination . and when the benign virulency of your wit had pursued men with uncharitable characters beyond death , with more delight , than constraint of mind , et quae , poeticis magis decora fabulis , quam incorruptis rerum gestarum monument is tradenda fuerunt , no sooner is the artillery turned , but you are in passion for my lord russel , you lamented , after you had been fully convinc'd by discourse with the reverend dean of canterbury , of that noble gentleman's great probity and constant abhorrence of falsehood . delicate words ! but that was a good while after you say , such was your ignorance of the upright , but obscure , lord. russel , your lordship , who had liv'd so many years about the town , could not be convinced of his probity , till after he had suffered martyrdom , any more than you understood his grace of canterbury took exception to the legality of the ecclesiastical commission , till after my lord of london had been cited , appeared , had answered , and the unjust sentence past upon him . ignorance and chance , by your own account , have carried the ascendant over the last scenes of your life , my lord , in a wonderful manner ; but , a reader , less tender , than your answerer , tho' he would not altogether disown the philosophy , that accident governs the world , adding , in subordination to providence , for chance makes cases here , engaging men , for the better connection in support of societies to mutual obligation by unexpected standing in need one of another ; yet , by the course of your actions , from the time of a certain sermon , for which you had no thanks , and from whence ( such is the curse of variance between a king and subjects , the people receive the banished from court , and the court embraces the disregarded by the people ) some derive your advancement , and others your misfortune ; from that hour , my lord , to the day of the bishops tryal , above eight years in a state of ignorance , and chance , as you carelesly alledge , but of most dangerous observance , ( as sense interprets ) such a reader , my lord , would sooner imagine the parts were made for the sake of the representer , knowing how well they suited his genius to describe them ; than that chance , brought your lordship so often , and so artificially , upon the stage . he that with a common eye looks into this your second letter , shall find in it , expostulation , no apology ; raised above that by the first admittance , remorse vanishes , the least shadow of condescension to chance , and i know not how , brings your lordship to a position of assurance . there have been indeed , those , whose haughtiness of mind bearing down all the rest of their faculties , hath deceived them into a superlative idea , of their being above apology , they have perished in falls unnatural , tho' not unpitied : but , if a bishop , a pattern of humility , one who to be great among us , is to be our minister , shall dare give it under his hand , that , he always thought next to committing offences , nothing can be more grievous to an ingenuous mind , than to be put upon the necessity of making apologies ; in english no more , but owning a miscarriage in decency of reasoning to unload his conscience , if that be so very grievous to the ingenuous mind of a bishop , i take his apologies to be like his compliances , one , the result of more than ignorance , or chance , the other , of much less than contrition , and without charge upon my self of any disrespect either to his quality or function , conclude , tho' with a modesty , even to tameness of expression , that the best and most ingenuous part of the apology , lyes , in confessing the necessity to make it . to what advantage might an elaborate man , in concern for the injuries done his country display this abundant paper ; how easily , my lord , might a pen , if like yours , incapable of parting with a luxuriant stroak for the sake of persons or families , take down these altars of praise you have built to others , contriving to annex your self , however without detraction from the merit due to any whomsoever , i will reduce the overflowings within bank , bring them to fact , and qualifie the magnificent apology , shewing that your better understanding , proceeded , not from argument but appearance , terrible aspect , and dreadful apprehension your own words , my lord , are very dogmatical ; full satisfaction may seize people in lightning , and they may be struck with the convincing of thunder . only , by the way , my lord , whereas you seem to intitle your self to something or other , within guess , by incurring the displeasure of our two last kings , in declining to write against the states of holland , during the first and second dutch wars , i humbly desire , if any thing in these papers tempt your lordship to a third apology , or a reply , that you will please to let us know , if they desired you to write in prose , for neither of those wars , or depredations afforded subject matter for one paragraph of truth ; how , specious soever , the first might be rendred , in the frenchified heat of our honey moon after the restoration ( the effect , of private sentiments in religion here , tho' he seemingly took part with the dutch against us ) i am sure , no man , will say , but the second was an apparent violation of the law of nations , the triple league broke on our side ( with grief be it remembred by us , and very unkind in your lordship not to bury ) against all the rules of mutual defence , and notwithstanding the most direct warning of the fatal consequences of such a breach , that a wise man , our agent abroad , could , possibly insinuate ; to our great reproach , my lord , opening a passage to the common disturber of manking , and , for ought i know , too great a cause of all the blood that has been , and may be shed in christendom from the ravage , of that imperious monarch of france , beside a subjugation of us here to popery and slavery , or the inevitable fury of a civil war , if , in return of good for evil , the dutch had not aided our deliverance from the influence of all those pernicious counsels , and i make no doubt but your lordship knew then , as well as i do now , that invention must have been the guide of your undertaking , and the topick , dimunition of glory , if you had obeyed their commands . the tenth page of the letter . if i have now given your lordship any satisfaction , touching my fair dealing in my part of that book , i doubt not but what follows will give you more ; when i shall assure you of my having refused to write a continuation of the same history , for , my lord , it was sometime after the duke of monmouth 's overthrow and execution , that king james the second required me to vndertake such another task , and presently set about a second part , to that purpose his majesty gave me a sight of multitudes of original papers and letters , together with the confessions of several persons then taken in england and scotland , who did seem to outview one another , who should reveal most , both of men and things , relating to the old conspiracy , as well as to the duke of monmouth 's , and the earl of argyle 's invasion . but finding , the innocence of divers persons of honour and worth , touched in those papers , and by that time beginning vehemently to suspect things were running apace towards the endangering our laws and religion , i must say , i could never be induced by all his majesties reiterated commands to go on with that work. instead of that , tho' i had all the materials for such a narrative within my power , for above three years , and might easily have finished it in six weeks , yet i chose rather to suppress , and silence as much i could , all that new evidence , which if openly produced would have blemished the reputation of some honourable persons . answer . blemishes , my lord , are from the cause ; nor will i ask pardon to say , 't is as necessary to live in the disesteem of some , as the good opinion of others . the overthrow of the duke of monmouth was in the name of king , and if what our neighbours assert to be law in scotland , be reason in england , the late kings assuming the regal power of this protestant kingdom being a papist , was in it self a forfeiture of his exercise of the authority . if the eyes of the people had been as open to apprehend it , as his chappel was early to declare it , their hands had been strong enough to have brought a general to town , then , confirming the bill of exclusion , and placing the crown , where it now is . the generosity of trust in the english , towards their king at his first accession to the throne , over-ruling their jealousie , reasonable from his conduct of many years before , but demonstration of entire affection to their kings , while any tolerable bounds , will hold them , very honourable in them , but very much to be deplored , was the end of that duke : rebellion had been a word in his attainder , if he had not taken upon him the title of king , that part of him which died , had perhaps been less than execution , and his defeat , not so much as an overthrow . king james , my lord , made good that cause by the continuation of his own history to the time of his departure , and king william and queen mary , ( whom god for ever preserve ) by consent , and authority of the estates have given it immortality . the old conspiracy , is not a language , but in those times , when judges deliver for law , that surprizing a garrison , apart from the king is an overt act of treason to destroy the person of a king within the statute of ed. d. what greater invasion can there be , than when judges shall force in upon express words of law , and kill a man by a rule of court. the statute says , that if any person , beyond sea , at the time of an outlawry for high treason , surrenders himself within a year after he shall have leave to traverse the indictment upon which the outlawry is grounded , and be admitted to tryal . what can be inferred from these words , but if the king will execute him upon that outlawry , he must have patience till the year expires , otherwise , a fair tryal must be allowed ; for who can tell but it may come into his heart to deliver himself to justice according to the forms of that law , the very last point of the year ; and are not those invading judges , whom the law trusts , not only , to be councel for the prisoner , but directs them to expound all penal laws most beneficially in favour of life , to send a subject in cool blood , nay , which is worse , to force the natural born subject of a free state , out of their own dominions , send him out of the world upon these terms , and sanctifie it with the name of an execution , this my lord , is invasion also , and conspiracy . or , when the law is positive , that men must be tryed in the county where the facts are committed , and be executed in the same county , where they receive judgment , for the prerogative dealers , to gratify the vain humour of a king , and mount a chief justice , only to send a wretch contrary to law , to be put to death at the head of a regiment , in terror , forsooth , that the rest may continue more unlawfully together , than he deserted them . these are invasions my lord , that have been may encountred with that which is no invasion , but reprisal of the people's rights , and liberties ; such invasions , as made the renowned hales , foreseeing our dangers from colour of law , say , the twelve red-coats in westminster-hall , where capable of doing the nation more violence than twenty thousand in the field . but , my lord , if so soon , after that kings ascending the throne , as the unfortunate duke of monmouth's last return into england , you began , vehemently to suspect things were running apace towards the endangering our religion and laws , so that you could not be induced by all his majesties reiterated commands to go on with the work of history , because you must have blemished the reputation , that is , libelled , the innocence of some persons of honour , one would think , that vehemence of suspicion , might have grown into satisfaction in less than three years , and your lordship have broke loose from the conspirators long before the tryal of the bishops . the twelfth page of the letter . next , my lord , having mentioned my being concerned in the commission for the diocess of london , in that i had the good fortune to be joyned with an excellent person , my lord bishop of peterborough . and we can both truly say , that as we entered into that commission with my lord of london 's good will , so we acted nothing in it , without the greatest respect to his interest . it is well known we continued all his officers , in their full profits and priviledges of their places . we faithfully maintained the rights of his bishopprick , and once in the kings own presence , against his majesties express inclinations , in a business of no less concernment than my lord mayor 's chappel : we never invaded any of my lord bishops preferments that fell void in that interval . we disposed of none but according to his own directions . we used his clergy with the same affectionate care , and brotherly love , as he himself had done , who was on that account as dear to them , as any bishop in christendom was to his diocess . and we appeal to them , whether we might not rather expect their kindness , and thanks , than suspect their ill-will for all our transactions with them ; nor can this be thought a vain boast to any man , who shall seriously reflect on the terrible aspect of things from court upon the london clergy , during the whole time of our exercising that jurisdiction . the remembrance whereof makes me not doubt to affirm , that if my lord bishop of peterborough , and i , had not then stood in the gap , but some other persons , who were prepared to be thrust in , upon our leaving that commission , had got it absolutely into their power : 't is possible the most learned and pious clergy in the world , had been somewhat otherwise imployed than they were ; and too much taken up in defending themselves from the violent persecutions of the popish party , to have leisure to confute , and triumph over the popish cause , as they entirely did in their admirable writings , to the glory and establishment of the church of england . answer . i am apt to think , the bishop of peterborough had , as far , my lord of london's good-will in that commission , as was possible , for so faithful a bishop , to consent , that any , but himself , should execute his trust ; because , from the character of that bishop , he might , under the necessity of his affairs , hope for performance , and good offices ; but your lordship of rochester , who sate illegally in the grand commission , and in favour at court , have no reason to flatter your self , but the appearance of my lord of london's good-will toward you , in the matter was , prevention ; and we , to whose reading you issue out this manifesto , can take it for no other , than a continuance of your regard for that commission which suspended him . the jurnal you present us with , of eine carriage , &c. during the time of your exercising that jurisdiction with the excellent bishop of peterborough , has this melancholy in it too , my lord , that the excellencies of my lord of peterborough one way , compared , at that time , with your excellencies another , it may be thought his excellency carried in the medium ; nor yet could you have done otherwise , for the most pious and learned clergy in the world must have concluded you quite out of the protestant religion , if you had not maintained the rights of the bishoprick in the inferiour respects you mention ; and every body living beside , would have believed you gone into utter darkness , or in very great and personal hatred to the bishop of london , if a suspension , from which an ordinary submission would discharge him , as you have said , should lay his lordship so low in your esteem , or so immediate in your fear of displeasing the court , as to turn out his officers , and abandon him to that extremity , or render him so obnoxious , as not to be consulted in the disposal of his vacant preferments . especially , when the papists did not value what heretick you put in , so the game was kept on , till the managers were ready to sweep and distinguish at once . but a thinking man , my lord , will summ up all this , and resolve from it , that you sate knowingly in the ecclesiastical commission , because you acted discreetly in that for the diocess ; and was so exact in pursuing my lord of london's desires , because , to gratifie the pleasure of the court , you sate in the first commission , which was illegal , and the act of suspending my lord of london , therefore , void ; in consequence all the derivations were so too , and the commission for the diocess to my lord of peterborough , and your self , being under the same fate , all you did , was , perhaps , in strictness , against law , and not only the more inexcusable , if you had acted without my lord's directions ; but unsafe as to the actions themselves , if my lord's approbation had not warranted them into a connivance , so that acting in commission , for the diocess of london , was in the bishop of peterborough , as publishing the suspension was in the dean of paul's , an expedient of necessity to chuse the least of two evils ; but more amiss in you , my lord , because you , who sate in the ecclesiastical commission , did it , in confirmation of the great evil which drew on the necessity of that . the terrible aspect of things from court upon the london clergy ; your standing in the gap to hinder some other persons , prepared to be thrust in , upon your leaving that commission ; and if such persons had got it absolutely into their power , 't is possible that most learned and pious clergy had been somewhat otherwise employed than they were , and had been too much taken up in defending themselves from the violent persecutions of the popish party , to have leisure to confute and triumph over the popish cause , ] can have no other meaning but that if the papists had got the diocess of london into their power , for nothing else can be collected from the word absolutely with the terrible aspect of that court , which had no other tendency , 't is more than possible , for 't is absolutely certain , that all those of the london clergy who had resolution of adhering to the protestant religion , ( that is , all those who by a vigorous , and ready allegiance in defence of the protestant religion now , shall justifie to all the protestants at home , and abroad , they would have forsaken their livings then , ) had been deprived , or otherwise engaged in too much persecution by the popish party , to have leisure to confute the popish cause , and to triumph over both , as they do now , if they can see their felicity . but your lordship's standing in the gap to hinder those persons , who were prepared to take that diocess absolutely into their power , is not discernible ; on the contrary , open war being proclaimed between the two parties , all those eminent supervisors of the church who continued in court were so far endearing the conspiracy on the popish side , as to weaken the protestant , by going on with the impracticable distinction of protestant loyalty , against protestant religion ; while the papists made it their business to single out the flower of our patriots in church and state , hunting them down with renegades , and masqueraders of our own faith , to death , and obscurity , as well , for their entertainment , as interest . fifteenth page of the letter . i should be glad i could claim as just a share in another of his lordship's meritorious services to the publick , as i may do in this : but in that , i cannot , for 't is evident the seven bishops , whereof he was one , had such an opportunity put into their hands by god's providence , for the overthrow of popery and arbitrary power by their sufferings for delivering the sense of king james the second's declaration , as 't is likely never any of the episcopal order had before , and 't is to be hoped will never have again . this however i will say , i had certainly added my self to their number , if i had then understood the question , as well as i did afterwards upon their tryal , where i was present in order to be witness in their behalf , at the same time when your lordship and many other noble lords were there to give countenance to so good a cause . there it was , my lord , that i was first convinc'd of the false foundations and mischievous consequences of such a dispensing power , as that on which the declaration was grounded ; so that i have ever since been perswaded that from that petition of the bishops , so defended by the invincible arguments of the learned councel on that day , and so justified by the honest verdict of the undaunted jury on the next day : from thence i say , we may date the first great successful step that was made towards the rescuing of our religion and laws ; for my part i must ever own i was so fully satisfied by the excellent pleadings of those great lawyers at that trial , that , i confess , i never had till then so clear a notion , what unalterable bounds the law has fixt between the just prerogatives of the crown , and the legal rights of the subjects : and therefore from that very day , i hastned to make all the reparations i could for the errors occasioned by my former ignorance , and to act for the future , what i always intended , as became a true englishman . answer . you are in the right , my lord , to say , the truth of an englishman consists in the reality of his actions ; it gives me notice , at the same time , not to depend upon his glistering sentences , nor be deceived by his plausible apologies . for if any but the bishop of rochester himself should tell me , he had added to the number of the petitioning bishops , if he had understood the question ; i would answer it with a smile . the bishop of rochester had the same organs disposing , and methods of advice , to inform his judgment , as the other bishops had ; if , to say no worse , his courage to adhere had been the same : and to add these words , as well as i did afterwards upon their trial , is ignorance repeated , ignorance upon ignorance , to the last minute . the bishops maintained their post with honourable , but not , unexampled , constancy , and the impudence of the jesuite was no diminution to the credit of their fortitude ; the kingdom stood as firm to them , the warrant of their commitment was also , in it self , a warrant for correcting that vagabond , and a pass for their religion to travel . no sooner were their persons in the tower , but we were ready for the field , to extricate them , not only , from the present difficulties they laboured under , and convince your lordship the protestant religion , and interest was no forsaken cause , but to clear them at once , from the enemies of their religion , and the rivals to their possessions . i hope , their lordships will prove firm to us , and their bishopricks now , as in a chearful allegiance , no longer puzling our enjoyment with unaccountable reserves , nor make us such cruel returns as to suffer the profound respect we have for them , to object against the security of our selves . it is the happiness of the church of england that her proselytes are not slaves , they reverence their spiritual guides , and honour their faithful advisers , the least distance between them is the torment of their lives ; but they will not be undone in blind dependance , nor yield that the private conscience of the bishop , or the less will of the priest shall be the uncancellable obligation upon all their actions , and the unalterable law of their souls . the presence of our great and brave men in , and about the court of king's bench at that trial , seemed a kind of parliament met to defend the church , and state , awing the trembling mercenaries , ( for honorary , and judge are lost in the abuse ) upon the polluted cushion , even , to convulsion in every joint ; but the invincible arguments at the bar , you admire , my lord , were only so many gentlemen of the robe with brief in hand , and plain law in their mouths , not a syllable of conjuration , or the least depth of mystery , and charm. when the councel for the king , to shew the moderation of the conspirators , being content with misdemeanour , could no more resemble the case to treason , than the new councel for the people could jest his reverend clients into fornication , by the mercury , of a false step in the church being harlotry in emblem . when the highest violation of sacred promise not to take publick advantage of what was owned in private upon that express condition ; with the careful evidence of that diligent clerk of the council , could not furnish the undaunted jury , you magnifie , with the least ground of fact to find a general verdict against them , nor a line of law from the bench to direct a special one . when the salute upon their acquittal , was so much the joy of our hearts , as to become loud acclamation , and , if the voice of the people , be the voice of god , shook the battlements of one hall , piercing the inner chambers of another , and putting the mis-led king in mind , if not of the day of judgment , at least of the battle of d — and that , if one sort of protestants , jealous of their religion , and property , from a match with france , discontinuance of parliaments for thirteen years together , imposing arbitrary taxes , and commissions , and lastly , having occasion for a parliament , by hoping to suppress a damnable popish conspiracy in the power of his cabinet council , lest the parliament should be out of humor , and grievances retard benevolences ; if one sort of them , in fear of popery unseen , had strength to hollow his unhappy father out of three kingdoms : popery , and slavery in full view , must , of necessity , unite protestants of all perswasions whatsoever , against those common enemies , who , by playing under-hand games , had prevailed upon the generous church of england to disbelieve , and from thence to hate , and prosecute the jealous dissenter , managing them , for generations , to the tearing one another in pieces , and promoting divisions among themselves , while the papist wrought up his design to seize both , if the great restorer had not interposed . when the conspirators run about whitehall , like men in a tempest , and the priests traversed the park to st. james's , like ghosts , for consternation was in all their looks ; and leyburn , the titular , crawling to dinner , bid the fraternity retrench , for the cause was lost . if this be true , my lord , and an honest description of that cause , without rhetorick , it follows , that the more successfull the step was to our rescue , the plainer i have made it , that full satisfaction seized your lordship in lightning , and you were struck with the convincing of thunder . the same reasons of not hazarding your preserment , which made you remain in court , writing histories , acting in commissions , suffering the declaration to be read in your diocess of rochester , ordering it to be read in your deanry of westminster , and staying to be the last man born from the tables ; the very same reasons , my lord , of not hazarding your preferment from the protestant quarter obliged you to withdraw from the popish , in that critical day of the bishops tryal . and the lofty strains of encomium upon the bishops , the great men of the kingdom , the invincible arguments of the lawyers , the undaunted jury , the strong fleet , consisting of twenty sail and more , ( when we were sure of the seamen from their irreconcileable hatred to popery , and their constant fidelity to the protestant religion , and cause ) with the formidable army , the honest , and conscientious part whereof was satisfied their valour would be their ruine , others applying the same argument to the tender part of themselves , and most of the new raised common soulders such , as never saw an enemy , but a constable , nor set foot in a garison , but a gaol ; in a word , my lord , your eloquence upon all mankind , who , long before , your lordship , quitted their temporal circumstances , and took up the cross , satisfied , that nothing in this world is an exchange for the prospect of another , beside the honour of avowing just principles , are but so many reflections upon your self ; and ( notwithstanding your aiery notion at the beginning of this letter , that nothing can be more grievous in your thoughts , next to committing offences , than apologies , no remorse appearing in a cursory perusal , yet in the anatomy much less is to be found , laying about you , upon any terms whatsoever , catching at every thing , from the first dutch war to the bishop's trial , and at every body that can but carry his head above water , and some as likely to drown ) in this glorious , but not so very miraculous , revolution , as your lordship would perswade us to believe , and write us into for the sake of your posthumous conversion . all this , my lord , rises in a natural remark upon the very words of your letter to the rest of the ecclesiastical commissioners , though courtier-like written in the contrary stile . and if the great veneration i entertain for the bishops of this protestant kingdom did not restrain me , comparing the advice given by them to king james the second , and the abhorrence refused ( which make so large a part of your letter , and so much insisted on , ) with the times of them , when the prince of orange had been at the credit of so many hundred thousand pounds to assist our deliverance , and ready to sail , with the carriage of some of them hitherto towards him , and the nation , since he has made it good to us , and we ought to throw our selves at his feet , in duty and acknowledgement becoming so great an enterprize ; i could say , much more , than that , the divinity of kings lies in the humanity of their actions : that an abhorrence , at that time , had been a backsliding from the protestant religion , and an apostasie from the understanding , of those great and learned men , that the advice it self came too late , and the merit impaired in the unseasonable , and extraordinary , application : extraordinary , because it is evident from your letter , it was of your own seeking ; for though the king had sent for you , yet nothing passed but general expressions of favour , and duty between you , and , in fact , the king had altered his mind , and resolved not to enter into any particulars with you , if you had not made it your own request to him ; and so very unseasonable , that if i had been in the place of such preliminary consultation , i should humbly have offered , that my lords the bishops would please to refer his majesty to his popish councils , by which he had for so many years been conducted , rather than , so late , have thought it any service to the protestant religion , and interest , voluntarily to inform him , how he might amuse the people with more vain promises , unspirit their hopes , and disappoint the expedition , leaving us , a reproach to our own sense , a certain prey to our mortal enemies , and the disdain , if not , the danger of christendom . and if i had found your lordship in the advice who had so often exercised your parts for them before , notwithstanding your letter to the ecclesiastical commissioners , should readily have thought it proceeded from your lordship , as one , rather willing to compound for a present safety , upon imaginary conditions , than venture calling to account in a manlike reformation , which can never be , without some stroaks , and more marks of impartial justice . for , my lord , tho' moderation is healing , yet the body having been grievously wounded , and unable to discharge the offices of a political life , when the physicians with regard to the constitution , have taken care to obviate the danger of feaver , or other distemper , the first applications are corrosive ; laying open , and probing of wounds , by declaring crimes , and designing persons , is necessary ; proud flesh must be taken off , whether , by fine , degradation , or confiscation , and gangrene prevented , by death , banishment , or other disability , according to the wisdom of parliament . in the beginning of a persecution an honest man in a lawful employment may , with anxiety , submit to a rash action , in hopes to hinder worse : but he must quickly repair , by a good one , or withdraw , not presuming to go on under colour to mitigate the violence of times ; for his early departure may nip a conspiracy in the bud , stagger the design , and save a nation : whereas , if he continues among them , the plot gathers strength , while his reputation is a snare to the weaker . he that remains in a station of evil , pretending to keep out a worse man than himself , greatly aggravates his crime , apology is gone in the very capacity to distinguish , for he makes his judgment stoop to his will , and honesty slave to ambition ; but your streamer , my lord , is an admirable spark , he that , god help him , was in the middle of the stream , poor wretch ! when the tide turn'd so violently against our establisht church , and state ; no warning : for he never heard of the name of admiral parted with , rather than take one test , and a proviso obtained to secure passage to the house of lords in another ; but was driven down , by chance i know not how , lower than he expected , the turn was so sudden , before he could resist the current , or get to shore ? otherwise , we had been sure of him , for all the world knows his heart was with us. that man has nothing to do , but apologise for a stream ; he got off , as soon as he could , thinks to be at rest under an act of oblivion , and , it may be , fifty thousand pounds , or such a trifling sum , from half a crown , to dry himself with ; if that will pass for an apology , upon my word , my lord , one streamer shall outlive five hundred porpoises , and a stemmer of tides is a goose to him . it is so far from being well , that so many forsook not the true interest of the nation , 't is a shame , that so many did ; but when i consider again , that true protestant was a mark of reproach , i wonder , we have so many left. it is happy so many preserv'd their integrity , and wretched so many betra'yd it ; that so many stood unmov'd by the importunity of their king , whom they were bred up to honour , and in all things else to obey , and pity their honour was not sooner consulted in their obedience . in sense of humane frailty many infirmities are to be overlook'd , but ignorance is no common plea , for those , who are known to be able , nor chance , and surprise , where the province is care ? if it be a great crime in a centinel to sleep at his post , 't is unpardonable to take opiate , and true , only to preferment , stupify all the rest of his qualifications . false steps are to be considered ; heat of spirit , may carry the undiscerning loyalty of youth out of the way for a while , or a dazle from the sun may intoxicate him : but temper is expected in ripeness of judgment , and firmeness of wisdom from age. it may be thought some kind of merit ; or some degree of innocence , not to make more false steps in a slippery ground , that is , where arbitrary dominion has gained the point , and from general consent , as to a conqueror , ready obedience is yielded to the inconstant motions of unlimited power . but when the prerogative is labouring to break in up-upon the fences of known , and written laws , he is an ill husband that does not endeavour to transmit that most sacred part of his inheritance , the rights , and liberties of his countrey , to posterity , free from incumbrance , as the sweat , the honesty , and the blood of his ancestors secured , and left to him : and if he that assists the betraying those rights , who , with ignorance , and chance , sets up for innocence , merit , or thanks , imputes all to slippery ground , and 't is well , 't is no worse , gentlemen , take it as you find it , be contented , and mend for the future ; if he be excusable , with such an apology , there may be room for our enemies to dispute our deliverances , and our friends to question the just sense we have of it . compliance looks very well meaning , because all are not inflexible , and allowance may be given to better understanding : but he that complies in all times , and causes , or he that complies with many bad causes , or the many labours of one bad cause , if great , or learned , in the eyes of the people , is a dangerous creature ; for the powerful argument of private advantage with such an example , draws in the numbers ; the first is neither true , nor of reputation to any cause , and the last makes a good one suspicious , unless some extraordinary act of purgation assures him , and much more is required , than breaking loose from ecclesiastical commissioners at the last minute , when they were ready to part by consent , and the conspirators behind the curtain , only directed them , like generals , to draw up seemingly to face the whole body of the clergy , to secure an orderly retreat in the shape of adjournment , with no more intent to meet again the fourth of december , than , they designed to establish liberty of conscience by a religious magna charta , or than , they were so vain as to think , tho' the dissenters accepted a liberty of worship , they would ever consent to repeal the tests , or were able to compass it effectually for them , if they were so ill inclined : but , as , i have said in my first , to amuse us by forms of justice , till they were in a posture , to follow the example of the parliament of paris , and after disposing of our principal nobility , to put all the rest under military reconciliation by the assistance of france . 't is pleasant to say , the constant experience of all wise times has shewed , that civil dissentions , and quarrels are best ended by the largest acts of indemnity : and 't is as easy to prove the contrary , and to shew that all wise governments , from sparta , down to rome , the mistress of the world , were supported by the strict execution of impartial justice , that tyranny took possession of her , at last , and has ever prevailed more , by flattering the wicked , than strength ; that civil dissentions will never extinguish , where there is matter of faction , while some are too great , and others too wise for the laws of their country — 't is a very little while since , in the late kings reign , pardons flew about like wild fire ; and the act of oblivion , my lord , after the restauration , will shew you , that some of all sorts were excepted . good nature in england is soon apt to have compassion upon the afflicted , but he that says , scarce any thing can be more dangerous to the party that is uppermost , than to put english-men upon pitying those that suffer under it , articles with a sword in his hand , and threatens while he desires . certainly , it can neither become the honour , nor consist with the safety of any revolution , to let such language pass , where good nature is demanded : and tho' i presume to join in this part of your advice , my lord , that the revolution may be mild in the event , yet not for the same reasons of being bloodless in the whole course of it , or believing there was much danger of bloodshed , but principally , to oblige the merciful disposition of the king , whose goodness recommended the act , and , then to try , if . marks of reproach , with confusion of face , may not strike deeper , and more lasting impressions into the minds of the people , restraining them from villanous attempts for the future , than sanguinary dispatches , the work of a minute , forgot in an hour . last pages of the letter . i will say no more , my lord , but this , that after great and unexpected changes , that hath been always found the firmest settlement of any state or government where the prevailing party hath look'd but very little backward , and very much forward ; where private animosity , and revenge have wisely given way to the greater benefits of publick pardon and indulgence . perhaps , towards the beginning of great reformations , a warm impetuous spirit may have its use ; but to compose things after sudden commotions , to calm men's minds for the future , to settle affairs in a secure and lasting peace , most certainly a gentle , generous , charitable temper is the best . answer . private animosity , and revenge are not to be imagined in the supream assemblies of a kingdom ; my lord , 't is a great oversight , or a higher vanity to mention them : the impetuous spirit of reformation , is not english , unless affection pass for a crime ; and indifference a virtue . to compose things after sudden commotions , to calm men's minds , for the present , a generous , good-natured , charitable temper is best , because a sudden , hot-headed tumult ought to be quickly appeased , and no more thought of ; but when conspiracies have been of long standing , obstinate , carried on against the laws of a nation , by inches , the growth of many years , the intriegue of ages to ripen and effect , they bear no likeness to sudden commotion ; nor can affairs be settled in a secure , and lasting peace upon any such revolution , without deliberate councels , steddy resolutions , and bold execution . the firmest settlement of any state , or government after great changes , is , when the prevailing party goes to the root of the evil , as well in the instrument , as the design . the surest method of composing things within , and preventing temptations to berray from abroad , is to let all mankind see , no injuries from thence shall pass unaccounted for , because no offenders at home can escape without punishment . if ministers of state were brought to understand , that , according to our laws , they gave their advice at their peril , kings would be well serv'd , and subjects live happy : favourites would not only examine themselves , before they entred upon those important trusts , but seriously consider how to carry themselves when engag'd ; nor would they ever attempt to accumulate honours and fortunes by gratifying the unreasonable desire of their master , if , they were , once , well satisfied beyond words , that the powers of the prince were not strong enough to protect them , while they live , nor death it self to secure the plunder to their posterity . thus , my lord , you see , according to the premise of my first , i am no dealer in the art of language , nor accuser , i do assure your lordship , but a plain , ordinary man , a reverencer of publick honesty , impartial justice and naked truth . the dearest friend i have , cannot charge me with an approach to flattery , nor my greatest enemy , justly yet , with any act of private animosity , or revenge : love for my country raises me to warmth , but no impetuous spirit . when i find a man acting against her interest before , forward , in advising her , out of his station , now , i cannot help being jealous and satisfied , in my own breast , the notions laid down are disagreeable to her safety in general , however they may be taken for granted with reference to his particular , am so much an english-man , as not to let them pass for unanswerable maxims and standing rules , without opposition , of which the world is to judge between us. persons are not my courtship , but things my industry , i honour the great , pay respect to the deserving , and share with the really afflicted ; but , he that lays hold of ignorance in so many remarkable transactions of his life can be no sure adviser ; nor , in my humble opinion ought your lordship to have pleaded so liberally , for all the criminals in the kingdom , unless you thought your self the last man upon earth to be forgiven . my lord , your lordships most humble servant . may the th . . finis . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e p. . p. . pag. . ed. . page . . page . page , , , . page º page . page . page . page . page . page . ratiocinium vernaculum, or, a reply to ataxiae obstaculum being a pretended answer to certain queries dispersed in some parts of gloucester-shire. overbury, thomas, sir, d. . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing o estc r ocm this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) ratiocinium vernaculum, or, a reply to ataxiae obstaculum being a pretended answer to certain queries dispersed in some parts of gloucester-shire. overbury, thomas, sir, d. . [ ], p. printed for a.b., london : . errata: p. 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ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng ataxiae obstaculum. religious tolerance -- great britain. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - aptara keyed and coded from proquest page images - judith siefring sampled and proofread - judith siefring text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion ratiocinium vernaculum : or , a reply to ataxiae obstaculum . being a pretended answer to certain queries , dispersed in some parts of gloucester-shire . give unto caesar , the things that are caesars , and unto god , the things that are gods , mark . . for so is the will of god , that with well doing , ye may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men , pet. . . london , printed for a. b. mdclxxviii . the preface it is now near seven years since the ensuing queries , ( grounded , most of them , on holy writ , or on the writings of learned and judicious men of the church of england ) were one morning cursorily written : vpon the sight of certain queries that had been delivered to , and answer'd by a neighbour minister ; and to him only privately sent , without the least design or intention , of their ever being made publick ; but to convince him , ( with such others of his judgement , to whom he should think good to communicate them ) of the unreasonableness , especially on protestant principles , of exercising . force and compulsion in religion , with the danger of persecuting any on the account thereof . but no answer by him was ever return'd unto their author , who so little concern'd himself in them ; that they were as much out of his thoughts , as if they had never been written by him : when about michaelmas . he was surprised with the news of a weak and unadvised parson's having taken them up into the pulpit with him , and there made them the subject of his mornings exercise , to the amazement of some , and derision of other of his parishoners ; who had never before heard of them , and then understood not his descant on them . but the noise hereof , soon made them , which for some years had been buryed in silence , now the discourse of the country ; and they were not only oppugn'd from the press , the pulpit , and the pens of divers adversaries , but their author prosecuted at the assizes as criminal ; though 't will , perhaps , be difficult , shewing as they were written , and disposed of by him , what law of god or man , he therein transgress'd ; or what civil or religious interest was thereby injur'd ; since upon the severest examination and scrutiny , they will be found to have no worse aim or design , than to manifest how irrational it was , and how ineffectual it must needs be , to all good purposes ( as well as inconsistent with the precepts of the gospel , and principles of christianity ) to force religion ; and how dangerous to persecute any on the account thereof : and herein he is satisfied to have the concurrent opinion of the most learned and judicious divines of all parties ; though the practices of too many of them , have not been answerable thereunto ; who , indeed , say and do not : nay may be said , some of them to make themselves transgressors , in building again the things which they destroyed . and though 't would not be difficult to compose a volume , in but transcribing what they have written to this purpose : i shall here content my self with a single citation ; yet it being from one , who having had the approbation and applause of the famousest vniversity of christendom , as well as of the generality of learned and judicious men of the reformation , may pass for more then a single testimony ; and this is the eminently learned and acute mr. chillingworth , who in his treatise , entituled , the religion of protestants , a safe way to salvation ; thus speakes : i have learnt , saith he , from the ancient fathers of the church ; that nothing is more against religion , then to force religion : and of st. paul , the weapons of the christian warfare are not carnal : and great reason , for humane violence may make men counterfeit , but cannot make them believe ; and is therefore fit for nothing , but to breed from without , and atheisme within . besides , saith he , if this means of bringing men to embrace any religion were generally used , ( as if it may be justly used in any place , by those that have power , and think they have ttuth : certainly they cannot with reason deny , but that it may be used in every place , by those that have power as well as they , and think they have truth as well as they , ) what could follow but the maintenance , perhaps of truth ; but perhaps , only of the profession of it in one place , and the oppression of it in an hundred ? what will follow from it , but the preservation , peradventure of unity ; but peradventure only of uniformity in particular states and churches , but the immortalizing the greater and more lamentable divisions of christendom and the world ? and therefore what can follow from it , but perhaps , in the judgment of carnal policy , the temporal benefit and tranquillity of temporal states and kingdoms ; but the infinite prejudice , if not the desolation of the kingdom of christ ? and therefore it well becomes them who have their portions in this life , who serve no higher state , then this of england or spain , or france ; nor this neither , any further than they serve themselves by it : who think of no other happiness , but the preservation of their own fortunes , and tranquillity in this world ; who think of no other means to preserve estates but humane power , and machivèllian policy ; and believe no other creed but this , regi aut civitati imperium habenti nihil injustum quod utile . such men as these , it may well become to maintain by worldly power and violence , their state-instrument , religion : for if all be vain and false , ( as in their judgment it is ) the present whatsoever , is better then any , because it is already settled ; an alteration of it , may draw with it change of states ; and the change of state the subversion of their fortune . but they that are indeed servants and lovers of christ , of truth , of the church ▪ and of mankind ; ought with all courage to oppose themselves against it , as a common enemy of all these . they that know there is a king of kings , and lord of lords , by whose will and pleasure king● and kingdoms stand and fall ; they know that to no king or state , any thing can be profitable , which is unjust ; and that nothing can be more evidently unjust , then to force weak men , by the profession of a religion which they believe not ; to loose their own eternal happiness , out of a vain and needless fear , least they may possibly disturb their temporal quietness : there being no danger to any state from any mans opinion , unless it be such an opinion of which disobedience to authority , or impiety is taught or licenc'd ; which sort , i confess , may justly be punisht as well as other faults ; or , unless this sanguinary doctrine be joyned with it ; that it is lawful for him by humane violence to enforce others to it . this was the judgment of this learned and judicious divine of the church of england , concerning force in religion ; and of those doubtless , who licens'd and approv'd of this his learned and judicious treatise ; in which they unanimously declare , to find nothing contrary to the doctrine and discipline of the church of england : so that it is not the church of england , that approves or allows of force in religion , or that carnal weapons are to be used in the christian warfare ; but such of her degenerate and base sons only , as forsake the law of their mother . for , as he hath well observ'd humane violence may make men counterfeit , but cannot make them believe ; and is therefore fit for nothing , but to breed form without , and ●thism within ; which should make it to be abhorr'd and detested by all sincere and good christians . and surely the church of england , who decryes , and so highly condemnes blind obedience in the duties of religion , can never approve or allow of forceing any therein against their light and judgments : which is , certainly , the worst of blind obediences : for , since whatever is not of faith , is sin ; whatever a man does against his faith , or conscience , must needs be much more so . and as the church of england , neither approves , nor allows of secular force and compulsion in religion ; and much less that any should be therein required to do ought against their light or judgments , which were to sin against their consciences : so she as little allows or approves of persecuting , or any wayes molesting or troubling any for the real performance of any truly christian exercise of religien . nor , i dare presume to say , does any law of england allow or countenance , much less command , or require any such thing ; though too many have misconstru'd and misapply'd the late act for preventing and supressing seditious conventicles , to the disturbing and punishing , i may say ruining of many peaceable and pious people , for meeting only , really and truly to worship and serve god : for the act does not say , if any person or persons above such a number , shall meet to worship god truly and sincerely , in other manner than according to the liturgy , &c. they shall incurre the penalty mention'd : but where any person , &c. shall be present at any meeting , under colour or pretence of any exercise of religion , in other manner than according to the liturgy and practice of the church of england , &c. it shall and may be lawful , &c. the act certainly , does not prohibit or punish any real and truly christian exercise of religion ; for if it did , it were , ipso facto , null and void , as being against the law of god. but if it be objected , it appears not whether their worship be sincere or pretended only ; and the law prohibites such a number to meet , under any colour or pretence of any exercise of religion , in other manner then according to the liturgy and practice of the church of england ; and punishes those that transgress the same : 't is answer'd , that all pretences ought in charity to be believ'd , where no over-act discovers the hypocrisie or falsehood of the mind : but since there is so little charity amongst men ; let it be shown wherein the exercises of religion , which some have been pleased to punish by vertue , or colour rather , of that law ; were in other manner than , according to the liturgy and practice of the church of england . if it be said they ought to be perform'd in the very words of the liturgy ; it is more than the act sayes : and the practice of the church of england , has ever allowed men to pray , even in publick , in other words than are prescribed in the liturgy . our blessed saviour teaching his disciples to pray , said unto them ; after this manner , therefore pray ye ; our father which art in heaven , &c. and yet we do not find in scripture , ( where their prayers are often recorded ) that they ever prayed by that form , but in other words , agreeing for matter , and yet they were accepted . there are none therefore , i hope , will say , they disobeyed their lord and master , by praying in other manner than he taught and commanded them , because they prayed not by that form : no more do they transgress the law against praying in other manner than according to the liturgy and practice of the church of england , who pray not by the words of the liturgy while they pray in other words agreeing with it for matter . what pretence then , can any have to charge the author of these queries with libelling the church and state ; since they reflect on neither , nor cinsure , or by any undue surmises , condemn ought that they approve or allow of ? nay , is it not unreasonable to account that a crime in any one , which is the duty of every one , viz. to endeavour , by all lawfull wayes and means , that all that would , might lead peaceable and quiet lives in all godliness and honesty ; which they can never do , who are forced to profess , what they believe not ; and in the duties of religion , to practice what they approve not , which is to live in a perpetual lye . the question here is not , whether what is required of any , be in it self sinful or unlawful ; but whether they who judge it so , be it through ignorance , or otherwise , can without sinning , conform to it ? there is no doubt and question , but that many may , and do , live godly , holily and righteously , in the exercise of that religion , which to others , would be damnable ; for to him who esteemeth a thing unclean , to him it is so ; though in it self , it may be pure : so he that doubteth is damned if he eat ; while others perswaded of the lawfulness thereof may safely use their liberty . pleading therefore against force in religion ; we neither condemn nor censure this or that religion , which teaches not that sanguinary doctrine ; but would that every one should be fully perswaded in his own mind , the religion he embraceth and professeth , is what god wills and requires of him ; since whatever is not of faith is sin , and faithin all things respects the commands and authority of god. it were , indeed , heartily to be wisht , that all were of a mind , as to the due performance of this great and indispensable duty , the worship of god : but this is rather to be wished , then hoped for , while there are men truly fearing god ; and those whose fear of him , is taught by the precept of men . there are , ( saith our lerrned and judicious mr. chillingworth , ) but two wayes that may be conceived probable to reduce christians to unity of communion : the one , by taking away diversity of opinions touching matters of religion ; the other , by shewing that the diversity of opinions which is among the several sects of christians , ought to be no hindrance to their unity in communion . now the former of these , saith he , is not to be hoped for without a miracle ; unless it could be made evident to all men , that god hath appointed some visible judge of controversies , to whose judgment all men are to submit themselves . what then remains , but that the other way must be taken ; and christians must be taught to set a higher value upon these high points of faith and obedience wherein they agree , than upon those matters of less moment wherein they differ ; and understand that agreement in those ought to be more effectual to joyn them in one communion ; i mean , saith he , in a common profession of those articles of faith , wherein all consent : a joynt worship of god after such a way , as all esteem lawful : and a mutual performance of all those works of charity , which christians owe one to another . but whilst every one hath a confession , a form of worship , a church and its authority , which must be imposed on all others , we may look and with for peace , moderation and vnity , but are never like to meet with them on these terms . those whom experience will not convince of the vanity , of endeavouring to bring christians to vnity of communion , by secular force or compulsion ; and of the great miseries , persecutions and sufferings , such methods have in all ages brought upon the churches and people of god ; with the little , or no , advantage that at any time hath thereby accrued to religion ; will never be convinced thereof by the clearest evidences , or demonstrations , of reason . and though it cannot be denyed , but that there have been , and still are , many good and holy men , who contend earnestly for secular force and compulsion in religion ; yet it must withall be said , 't is a preposterous and blind zeal in them , to endeavour to promote the truth of gospel , contrary to the laws of the gospel . but for the generality of its advocats , nothing is more evident , then that it is not for the interest of religion ; but for some carnal interest or secular advantage , they receive by it . 't is strange that any not wholly ignorant of the state of christendom , or most christian states ; not to speak of the civil powers , in other parts of the world ; should think that the exercise of secular force or compulsion in religion , can be for the interest of the truth , when the generality of them are ignorant of it , if not enemies to it . but we are told , where the truth is once own'd and profest , every error and heresy that riseth up against it , ought to be supprest and extirpated by the civil sword. will these men then tell us , what sect or society , not of christians only , but of jews , turks or heathens , believe not themselves alone possest of the truth ? so that this method of preserving and propagating religion , prevailing ( as it doth too much through the power and influence of the god of this world , whose kingdom of darkness could not otherwise long stand against the light and power of truth . ) what , i say , doth or can follow upon it ; but perhaps the profession of truth in one place , and the oppression of it in an hundred . do not they who deny unto such as dissent from the religion establisht here , the exercise of their religion ; upon the same ground , deny it also to all the reformed churches , in all popish countrys of europe ? to talk of truth and error here is ridiculous : for , as we were but now told , if force in religion may be justly used in any place by those that have power , and think they have truth ; it cannot with reason be denyed , but that it may be used in every place , by those who have power as well as they , and think they have truth too , as well as they . but were the same mind in us , tha● was in our lord and master christ jesus ; the same frame of spirit , that was in his blessed apostles ; we would do to others , as we would be done unto ; and not mete unto any , what we would not should be meted unto us again . but whilst some men make their judgments or opinions , the rule or standard of truth and error ; forcing others to embrace , or renounce that as such , which they shall so call or judge ; whatever it appears to them by the rule , whereby they are commanded to try and prove it ; what truth or peace can from thence be expected , or hoped for ? well therefore might the judicious mr. chillingworth , cry out , let those leave claiming infallibility , that have no title to it ; and let those that in their words disclaim it , disclaim it likewise in their them , under pretence of religion ; nor yet a liberty for any to preach or teach doctrines destructive or prejudicial to the peace and quiet of civil societies ; but a liberty of worship only , under the magistrates inspection : and that such a liberty is the natural and common right of all nations and persons , hath been so fully prov'd by many eminent and learned men , even of the church of england ; and particularly by the reverend and learned dr. jeremy taylor , ( late bishop of downe and conough ) in his discourse of the liberty of prophesying , it would be but , actum agere , to say more . and it argues great ignorance or impudence in those who persist declaiming against liberty of religion , without offering at the least answer to what hath been said for it , by this and other learned and judicious divines of the church of england , as well as by most of the ancient and orthodox fathers of the church . as for that other objection against liberty of religion , that it will cause disturbance in the state : it is not only against reason , but the experience of all ages and places ; no instance being to be given that ever liberty of religion gave disturbance to any civil state : but the contrary , the denying christians their just liberty therein , hath been the unhappy occasion of the greatest troubles , miseries , and desolations , that have befallen most of the states and common-wealths of christendom . but to conclude this point ; the liberty pleaded for , is no more , in substance , then what by his majesties late declaration of indulgence to dissenters , was allowed and approved of by him , a much better and competenter judge of what is for the nations peace and interest , then they who object this : nor was the parliaments exception to the indulgence granted , but the manner of granting it ; which they judg'd might be of ill and dangerous consequence : it is therefore to be hoped , they will , in due time take it into consideration , and make such provision for the preventing and punishing seditious conventicles , as wicked and ungodly men may not take occasion from , to molest and disturb the assemblies of peaceable and pious people , for the performance only of the worship and service of god , in such a way as none can , ( with reason , ) say to be against the rule and order of the gospel ; much less to be guilty of any moral evil or impiety ; that the word of the lord may have a free course , and his name be glorified in the midst of us . the answer to the answerers preface . it will , i doubt not , be equally difficult for this answerer to shew , what truth he hath vindicated , as what truth these queries oppose . how far any have been satisfied with his performances , is best known unto themselves : but how little he hath complyed with the gentlemans desire , in returning a candid and christian resolution to them , is left to the judgment of every judicious and intelligent reader . had he not himself told us , he had review'd what he had written ; the gross oversights he hath been guilty of , might have been imputed to his too hasty pen ; which he now gives us to understand , are the effects of something else . had he convinc'd us of any mistakes or aberrations , we might have been guilty of ; we should have thank'd him for the discovery : but , as yet , we cannot own the least obligation to him on that account . the queries , he acknowledgeth here , afford variety of matter for the exercise of any learned pen , ( they had not else , been worthy his consideration ) and yet in his title page , they were to be avoided , as foolish and unlearned questions . but more of this anon . his reader , i am perswaded , is no less to seek for those old truths , vindicated with old arguments , which he promises him : than for those new notions and discoveries , he bids him not to expect from him . it were , indeed , as he says , somewhat strange , that dissenters should use the same methods to unsettle and pervert people , in the unerrable esteem they ought to have of the church and their superiours ; which the popish emissaries do with those persons they intend to proselyte to their abominable religion : but it is not at all strange he should tell us so , without giving us one instance thereof . 't is observable , he says , the very first stratagem the devil used to ruine mankind , was to propose a query to our first parents : but had he been as well acquainted with our blessed saviour , and his actions ; as he appears to have been conversant with the devil , and his doings : he might likewise have observ'd , it was by a query also , that he confounded and silenc'd , his malilitious and ensnaring adversaries ; who wanted his skill or cunning , to answer from the question , or to tell him ; there were very great mistakes , or it had many things questionable in it . and it was by queries also , that he convinc'd the scribes and pharisees ; ( those blind guides , ) of their errors . and when ever this answerer , instead of his circumlocutions , shall vouchsafe a categorical answer to these queries ; they may possibly convince him also , of ( what perhaps , he would not be convinc'd of , least he should see no fruit of the travel of his soul ) the unreasonableness of using secular force and compulsion in religion ; without the least danger of shaking either his faith , hope , or peace ; unless resolv'd to act against his conscience ; which , if not sear'd , might indeed , give him disquiet . if queries and scruples in matters of religion , were ( as he affirms ) certain signs , either of a weak and childish , or of a cavilling and froward judgment ; we had never , certainly , been commanded , to work out our salvation with fear and trembling . nor had the beraeans been comemnded for searching the scriptures , after the preaching even of paul himself , whether those things were so . but we cannot deny , he may have reason to say , some men are novices in knowledge , ever learning , but never able to come to the knowledge of the truth : and for such as hold it in unrighteousness , it must one day be accounted for . but with what forehead , can this answerer here charge us with studying to be sceptical ; and with divulging these queries , to deceive the hearts of the simple , and overthrow the faith of weak christians ? or with what conscience can he say , they are propounded with superciliousness , insolence , and violence , &c. when in the judgment of all unbyassed persons ; they could not well have been propounded , with greater candor , sobriety and meekness : but what will not a kown and infamous , and impudent libeller dare to say , even against conscience ; and the clearest evidences of sense and reason ? though we are given to understand , that which was chiefly design'd in the answer ; as he calls it , to these queries : was first , to remove those false pretences of conscience men make in matters of religion ; and then to endeavour the defence of the magistrates power therein : we are yet as far to seek wherein he hath remov'd the one ; as what cause hath by these queries been given him , to endeavour the defence of the other . nothing is more certain , than that it would greatly contribute to the happiness of this nation : to break off our sins by righteousness ; and , laying aside all petty differences and animosities , to unite our selves against the common enemy of protestanism ; but this is not to be expected from those , who while they declaim against popery ; uphold and support it in their principles and practices . 't is very strange , he tells us , the jesuited priests should have the luck for so many years to escape the lash of all the penal laws , and not one of them be made an example of justice . but 't is yet more strange , an impudent libeller should be licens'd to reflect thus upon the government . the papists , he sayes , of late years , are very zealous for liberty of consciscience ; and who , that has a conscience , is not so ? but this , let me assure him , is no popish tenent ; nor are they the more to be trusted for it , than he for his declaiming against popery . the vigorous execution of one law , would , he sayes , do more good than a million of proclamations : but their force is rescinded ; their course obstructed ; and their penalties pardoned : and by whom all this ? 't is not therefore these queries , but this answerer , that reflects on the government , libells the state , and speaks evil of things he understands not : as , god willing , shall be further evidenc'd in what follows . errata . page . l. . r. answerer , p. l. . r. answerer , l. . r. word , p. . l. . r. man , p. . l. . r. immortalities , p. . l. . r. unto satan , p. . l. . r. intended by , p. . l. . r. gongregations , p. . l. . for or r. a , l. . dele to , l. . for in r. is , l. . r. unitate , l. . r. unitatis , l. , and . r. scripta , p. . r. it will i , p. . l. . r. seneca , p. . l. . r. mysteries , p. . l. . r. in nations , l. ult . dele a , a. p. . l. . dele it , p. . l. . for theer r. his , l. . r. acknowledged , p. . l. . r. work , p. . l. . r. unto , l. r. hear , p. . l. . r. imperatoriae , p. . l. . r. the saints . p. . l. . r. ames ▪ p. . l. . r. teneatis ; p. . l. . r. be forced in , p. . l. . r. by an , l. ult . for our , r. one , p. . l. . r. proceed . p. . l. . r. blinder , p. . l. . r. impro , p . l. . r. on the , p. . l. . r. hath , p. . l. ● . r. first ref. l. . r. it , l. . r. for as , p. . . for just. r. jurisdiction , p. . l. . dele at , l. . r. on each other , p. l. . r. alike , a leiutenant , l. , . r. vicar general , l. . r. yet she is , p. . l. . r. are of , p. . l. . r. eudued , p. . l. . r. hers , p. ● . l. r . and superstition , p. . l. . r. sayes , p. . l. r. churches obedience , p. . l. . r. in no wise . p. . l. . for kings r. kindes , p. . l. . r. aide , p . l. . r. nursing , p. . l. . r. and so , p. . l ▪ r. mahumatism , l. . r. of others , l. . r. i.e. such ▪ p . , . r. gaudentem , p. . l. . r. neatly , p. . l. . r. their duty , p. . l. . r. authors , l. . r. murther , p. . after l. . r. with a designe and purpose to ensnare the consciences of inferiours ; much less shall we take upon us to determine , what humane laws thwart , &c. p. ● . l. , . r. instructions , l. . r. the kings , p. . l. . r. these , p. . l. . r. endear his , l. . r. passed a , p. . l. , . r. superstitions . query i. whether hath christ instituted a gospel church ? reply to the answer to this query . cavils at expressions , tending only to an unprofitable strife of words , ought no less to be avoided , then foolish and unlearned questions ; this answer therefore , who so early , as in his title page , caution'd his reader against the one , should not himself have so soon obtruded on him the other 〈◊〉 what prerogative preceeding ages had above the present , to coyn phrases in divinity , we should be glad to be informed ; or if no expression may be therein us'd , we meet not with in the new-testament ; we may no longer use sacrament , nor trinity , which are not to be there found : and yet a church constituted and gover●'d according to the rule of the gospel ; may as properly be term'd a gospel-church : as a church constituted and govern'd according to the laws of a nation , be term'd a national church ; an expression frequently us'd by this answerer , though he meet not with it in the new-testament ; nor , possibly in antiquity , at least to express a christian church . but having given us the queries meaning in his own words ; he acknowledges that christ hath instituted such a church , query ii. what is an instituted church of the gospel ? and by what means do persons become a church of christ ? reply to the answer to this query . as in all disputations , 't is necessary the terms be agreed upon ; so here , what is meant by church , which in scripture hath divers acceptations ; for by church there , is sometimes understood the elect only , or mystical body of christ ; by some called the holy catholick church . sometimes again the universality of the professors of christianity , commonly called the church catholick visible . and sometimes by church , is meant only a particular church , or society of christians united for the performance of the worship of god in the same individual ordinances , according to the order by christ prescrib'd . such was the church at corinth ; the church at jerusalem ; the church at antioch ; the seven churches in asia ; and divers others mentioned in the new-testament ; and is the church here inquired after : to which this answer , in saying , the church , or the christian church , is god's family , or houshold , &c. answers not , the question not being concerning the church in the st . or d . acceptation of the word . but had he said , an instituted church of the gospel ; or as he expresses it , a church constituted and govern'd according to the rules of the gospel , is a society of men joyning together in the profession of the christian faith , having right pastors or officers , invested with power to guide and govern them in the ways of god ; and to dispence unto them the ordinances of the gospel , ( which none but a church in the third acceptation of the word hath , ) it might have past for an answer to the query , though not so full and clear a one , as might have been given . but whereas he says , he hopes , there may be as well such a national church in england , as there was for above fifteen hundred years in palestine among the jews . if by such a national church , he means only , a church having national church-officers over it , ( as had the church of the jews ) no man sure doubts it ; but if by such a national church , he means a national church of divine institution ; we see not whereon he grounds his hopes , since it hath not pleased god to institute , or appoint any such national church under the gospel : nor does the church of england pretend to any such original , as is evident by the statute of the th of edward the d. where it is declared to be founded in prelacy , by the kings and nobles of england ; without the least pretence to a divine institution , as had the national church of the jews . there is no doubt but that christ , as he says , would have his church catholick , as well as holy ; yet not always so illustrious or visible , as to be seen and owned by the world . and though whole nations were to embrace the christian faith , and upon that account to constitute the christian church , or catholick church visible ; yet that doth not constitute them national churches , such as was the church of the jews ; nor can they be so called , upon the same account that a particular church is called a church . and when christ threatned the jews to take the kingdom of god from them , and give it unto a nation that should bring forth the fruits of it ; he meant , no doubt , as he says , more by a nation , then one particular church ; for he meant a nation ( or people ) that might have many particular churches , or congregations of christians in it , but did not thereby constitute , or intend a national church in his notion . neither yet did he confine the christian church to a nation ; and consequently not within smaller bounds then the jewish was , when empal'd within the land of canaan . but how will this answerer prove it to have been as he says , far from the mind of our redeemer to crumble his church , ( as he words it ) into such minute and little principles of being , ( as congregational churches , ) when the scriptures give so great evidence to the contrary , there being indeed no other instituted church , under the gospel , then what is congregational . and when our blessed saviour instituted those , he commanded certainly , the demolishing an established national church , even the national church of the jews ; the only national church in the world of gods institution . the second part of this query , does evidently enough intend a particular church , as before exprest , which 't is not impossible but five or six persons may constitute , notwithstanding his peremptory denyal thereof ; christ himself having told us ; where two or three are gathered together in his name , he is in the midst of them ; which is the ground or principle of all instituted churches : and we read of the church in the house of aquila and priscilla ; which cannot reasonably be supposed to consist of any great number . by what means persons become a church of christ ; and how particular persons become members of the church of christ ; are two different questions ; and even this , which is his own , he answers not distinctly ; for by his first way , they become members only of the catholick church visible ; by his second , they become members also of the holy catholick church , the mystical body of christ : so that without distinguishing what is here and there meant by church ; we are not like to be much edified by this answerer . that a visible profession of christianity , entitles men to the priviledges of the church , in the second acceptation of the word , may be true ; which yet , with his good leave , their debaucheries and immoralitys may again deprive them of , notwithstanding the church at corinths delay in casting out the incestuous person . but 't is not every vice or error in a member of a particular church , that unchurches them . st. paul therefore might very well own the church at corinth for a church ; notwithstanding the debaucheries and immoralities that were in some of its members . but the tolerating them , was certainly a crime , which the parable of the tares and wheat will never justifie : for though they were to grow together till harvest , it was not in the church , but in the world ; for so our saviour declares the field to be . nor will the parable of the net , and good and bad fishes contained therein , give any more countenance to this fond assertion ; that debaucheries and immoralities are , or may be tolerated in a christian church : or that debaucht and immoral persons , are not to be debarr'd the priviledges thereof ; if that be , as it seems to be , this answerers meaning ; the apostle commanding that the incestuous person be delivered unto satan : i. e. cast out of the church , the kingdom of god , into the world , the kingdom of the devil . query iii. whether the parochial churches within these nations , and the worship therein us'd , be according to christs institution , or the rule and order of the gospel ? reply to the answer to this query . this query , relating to the former , hath respect unto the means whereby christians become a church of christ ; and aim'd at their information or satisfaction , who doubted whether co-habitation , or mens living together within such or such a precinct , having a priest or curate so and so set over them , be the formal cause of an instituted church of the gospel : and whether such societies , meeting to worship god , by certain set or prescribed forms of prayer , and administration of the sacraments , be according to christs institution , or the rule and order of the gospel : which this answerer not thinking good to speak to , requiring only the contrary to be showne , leaves his reader therein as much unsatisfied , and to seek , as before , while he troubles himself with enumerating such particulars , as are not here questioned , nor were ever intr●ded by the query , which respected more the manner , then matter of worship , and formal cause only of an instituted church of the gospel . query iv. whether it be not the duty of every christian , to withdraw from every brother that walks disorderly ; and not after the traditions received from the apostles ? reply to the answer to this query . we have an affirmative answer here , which could not well be denyed us ; since it is but what the apostle commands . but then he tells us from an excellent expositor , what disorderly walking is ; by which it seems , we are only to withdraw from such as withdraw their obedience from the church ; and like disbanded souldiers run away from their colours , ( where , by the way , disbanded souldiers are improperly said to run away , ) forsake the service of their superiours , and commands of their bishops , &c. and with such , he tells us , we are not to have any familiar or friendly conversation : but this withdrawing , says he , concerns only private persons ; and yet private persons are not totally to withdraw themselves from such disorderly walkers , till so and so ; nay , even then we are not interdicted all society with such a person : so that we are little edified by this answerer , or his excellent expositor , as to our duty of withdrawing ; which they do not convince us , ought to be only from the civil conversation , of such as withdraw their obedience from the church ; or as forsake the service of their superiours ; and commands of their bishops ; and not also from the religious fellowship and communion of such bishops and brethren , as in the worship and service of god , walk not according to the rule and order of the gospel . query v. whether it be not the duty of every christian to chuse the communion of the purest church ? and whether in the choice thereof , is he bound to follow his own judgement , after the best information he is able to attain unto , or other mens judgements against his own ? reply to the answer to this query . little of what hath been here said , is to the matter in question ; though in a peevish and froward manner , he tells us , if there be a purer church they may betake themselves to it : whereby he seems to acknowledge , that it is every mans duty to chuse the communion of the purest church : nor does he say , that in the choice thereof , a man is bound to follow anothers judgement against his own ; and if he be not , why are any molested for but doing their duty ? and though possibly they may be mistaken in their choice ; yet while they are so by misfortune , and not their fault ; god will pardon it , and men ought not to punish it ; at least , while therein , they hurt none but themselves . yea , but says this answerer , they introduce confusion in all the parishes of this kingdom ; in setting up one altar against another , and removing ancient land-marks , expressly against a divine prohibition ; which is not saith he , to embrace the communion of the purest church , but to cast a mans self out of the catholick church . but does this learned and judicious answerer really believe , that they who separate from a parochial , or national church , do thereby cast themselves out of the catholick church ? does he believe , the french protestants cast themselves out of the catholick church , when they separated from their parochial churches , or from the national church of france ? or that the parliament went expressly against a divine prohibition , in removing an ancieut land-mark , when they gave new bounds to st. martins parish , by taking covent-garden out of it ? and what do they , who in this nation , worship god in assemblies , separate from the parochial congregations , more then all the reformed churches , in all popish conntries in europe , both do , and have done , ever since they had a being ; and yet , i hope , they set not altar against altar : or if they do , let him shew the evil of it . his objection against dissenters being let alone , or snffer'd to go on in their way ; in that it will , as he says , administer occasion to the enemies of our religion , to come and take away both our place , our church and nation ; is but the old objection the chief priests and phraisees heretofore made against tolerating our blessed saviour himself ; if say they , we let him thus alone , all men will believe on him ; and the romans shall come and take , away both our place and nation : and i heartily wish , it may not befall us , as it did them ; that while they let him not a lone , the romans did come , and took away both their place and nation . but what means he , in saying , a naional church is the ground of vnity and communion amongst the professors of christianity ? which is a notion , i am sure , he never met with in the new-testament , nor in antiquity ; nor yet , i dare say , in any judicious or intelligent author : nor is it easie to conceive what he intends by it , or in what sense a national church can be said to be the ground of unity and communion amongst the professors of christianity ; who are dispersed over all nations ; if by it , he means only amongst the professors of christianity in a nation ; it is very impertinent ; for a diocesan church , or a parochial church , is as much the ground of unity and communion , amongst the professors of christianity in a diocess , or in a parish ; as a national church amongst the professors of christianity in a nation . but 't is impossible , says this answerer , to obtain this communion , unless the members of the church own this principle , viz. that the visible vnity of the curch is necessary for the great ends of christianity , &c. but what church , and what unity , is here intended ? if a national church ? wherein consists its unity ? it cannot consist in a joynt assembly for the celebration of the ordinances of the gospel ; or any one of them , as was the case of the church of the jews which met at set times , in one place for the performance of that worship which was then required . if it shall be said , its visible unity consists in a subordination of officers in this church , centring in one : it will be said likewise , and with as good reason , that if such an unity of a national church be necessary , for the great ends of christianity , the preserving and promoting of peace and unity ; the same unity of the catholick church visible , is no less necessary for the same ends , and so much more desirable , as the unity of the whole , with the peace and piety thereof , is more to be desired , then the unity , peace and piety of a part : and where then shall we end , but in a pope ? this is so obvious to every understanding , that none who plead for the one , can with any colour or shadow of reason reject the other : and if this profession , as this answerer says , obliges all persons to acquiess in those determinations , by which the church is visibly upheld and maintained ; it does so no less in respect of the catholick church visible , then of a national church : and why then doth he not acquiess in the determinations , of the council of ariminum , against the diety of our blessed saviour ; of the council of constance , in taking the cup from the people ; of the council of nice , in decreeing image-worship ; of the council of lateran , in determining transubstantiation ; with others exercising the like authority ; an acquiescensie therein , being that whereby , in his judgement , the church is visibly upheld and maintained : for he cannot , with any colour of reason pretend , greater submission or obedience to be due to the determinations of a national church in its representative or national councel ; then to the determinations of the catholick church visible , in its representative , a general council . nor , possibly , will he abide by his own principle , of acquiessing in the determinations of a national church ; if he call to mind , or but to inform himself , what a national church ; and even this national church hath determin'd , within the memory of some not long since living . i mean in queen maries reign ; or if he should be such a thorow pa●'t conformist , all of his coat will not i am very confident be so . but thus far i agree with him , that to acquiess in the determinations of any society , or of the governours thereof , i● a ground of unity and peace in that society ; but not always of truth and piety , without which , there is little or no advantage in unity ; for , nihil bonum est in ●unitate , nisi unitas sit in bono : unity in error , being but conspiracy against truth : or , as hierome said , speaking of the council of ariminum , nomine unitatis & fidei , infidelitas scripta est . but i do fully agree with him , the society is yet un-named , which did not always justifie its own acts ; and oblige those under its authority , to confirm to its laws , and constitutions ; but this is not to our question , which is not concerning the authority of the governours or rulers of a society ; or the obedience due unto them , from the members , or subjects of that society ; but whether christians have not a right and liberty to chuse their communion ; or whether it be not their duty to joyn themselves unto such congregations , in the participation of the ordinances of the gospel , as they judge to walk according to the rule of the gospel ; and wherein they may be best edified in the knowledge of jesus christ ; and of their salvation in and by him ; which this answerer does not deny ; neither can it reasonably be denyed : for , i presume , none will say , it is every mans duty to be of the communion of that church , where providence hath cast his nativity , or confin'd his abode ; because there born , or abiding : nor yet , that it is any mans duty to continue in that church , wherein he hath been educated , if after serious and sober enquiry and examination , any thing therein injoyn'd or requir'd to be profest or done , be judg'd unlawful or unwarrantable by a mans own conscience . but that every one , who is actually a member of any church or christian society ; ought , while he so continues , to conform to its laws and constitutions ; none sure will deny : nor can any hinder or forbid churches of whatever denomination , to determine the bounds of their own communion ; and that by such constitutions and rights , as they in their wisdoms , shall judge necessary to preserve order and vnity ; and advance the edification of those under their charge and government . this , as he very well says , is essential to the church , as it is a society ; and there can be no society without government ; and no government if every one be allowed the priviledge to question and disobey its laws and constitutions ; nothing being more rational , then that they who are intrusted with the reins of government , should be invested with a power to decide and determine all differences and controversies arising in that government ; and whoever will not acquiess therein , ought to be banisht the society : but the paralogisme is very gross and foul , to argue , that because they who submit not to the laws and constitutions of a society , ought to be banisht that society ; therefore they who submit not to the laws and constitutions of the church , ought to be banisht the commonwealth . 't is sufficient to the ends of government , they be banisht that society only , whose laws and constitutions they submit not unto ; and so this answerer says well , non opus est habere civem qui parere nescit ; neither church nor commonwealth have need of those persons who know not how to obey . but till there be a due distinction made between the church and state ; between civil and religious societies : and that liberty in religion allowed unto all men which the law of nature , and positive law of god , allows and requires the exercise of ; we can never hope to see religion flourish , nor peace and quiet in christendome . query vi. whether is there any visible living judge in doubts and controversies of religion , to whose determinations any man is bound to yield his assent and obedience , against the dictates of his own conscience , guided ( according to the best of his light and knowledge ) by the rule of gods word ? reply to the answer to this query . a clear and positive answer to this query , would go far towards the ending our greatest differences and disputes in religion : for either , there is , or there is not such a judge as is here inquired after : if such an one there be ; let him be produc'd , and his determinations in all controversial points , be made known , that they may be submitted to : or if there be no such judge , why are any molested and troubled for going according to their own judgements and consciences , when it is their duty so to do ? what is said of a churches being a society , and that every society may agree upon the means by which all differences arising in it , may be determin'd , that may probably violatate the peace and vnity thereof ; is not to the present question , which is only concerning such a judge in doubts and controversies of religion ; to whose determinations , every one is bound to yield his assent and obedience against his own judgement . we have already acknowledg'd , that they who submit not to the laws and constitutions of a church , ought to be cast out of that church ; which is a sufficient means , and the only means of preserving the peace and unity thereof : and if the church of england assumes no other power or priviledge ; there is no ground of quarrel or exceptions against her for that : but whereas , he says , she does not like the papists , own any judge of controversies in religion ; if he means infallible judge , like the papists ; none says she does : or if his meaning be , that she owns no such judge of controversies , as to oblige any to acquiess in her determinations , against their own judgements , as it seems to be , by his saying , she requires none of her members to yield obedience to her determinations , against the dictates of their consciences : why does he , molest and trouble any for not yielding such obedience . and if all she demands , as he says , be but , that obedience be given to those laws which are undoubtedly divine ; an acquiescence yielded to some disputable points , &c. ( which are not against a mans conscience ) and a conformity to some indifferent rites , &c. ( which all judge to be indifferent ) no rational man can sure except against any of this : nor deny the governours of the church of england to be as much umpires , and judges in these matters , as the pastors and elders in any of the separated congregations . it is , as he very well says , a vain thing for men to plead , that they make conscience their guide , unless they take scripture for their rule . nor can any plead conscience for disobeying lawful authority in things innocent and indifferent , where they judge the things commanded to be so ; but what some may count indifferent , others may judge sinful . the scripture commanding obedience , and to be subject for conscience-sake ; does sufficiently manifest that none ought to obey , or comply , in any thing against conscience , since none against conscience can be subject for conscience-sake . it cannot be denyed , but that horrid impieties and immoralities have been acted under pretence of conscience ; though they can never be justified upon the account of conscience : and where any plead conscience against all sense of duty , it is but just with god to leave them to a reprobate state of mind : but some mens abandoning , or abusing conscience , will never justifie others dispising and deriding of it . whether dissenters endeavour after the best information they are able to attain unto , and in other things do their duties , is no part of this query . but if they do not , they are too blame , and will have the more to answer for another day ; and cannot with that satisfaction bear their present sufferings , which otherwise they might do . as for the grounds of their seperation , whether sufficient to justifie it , or excuse them of schism ; will be more seasonably argued , when this answerer , or his adherents , shall tell us of such a judge as in the query is inquired after , to determine who is in the right , and who in the wrong ; who keeps to , and who swerves from the rule of the gospel . query vii . whether to inflict corporal punishments upon any as transgressors in those matters , which no man or society of men whatever , have authority to pronounce a judicial difinitive sentence in , so as to make it any mans duty to yield his assent or obedience thereunto ; be not to execute before judgement ? and whether to do so , be not against all rules and forms of justice both divine and humane , and such a violation of the law and light of nature , as no sober or judicious heathen was ever yet guilty of ? reply to the answer to this query . had not this officious person taken on him the answering questions , before he understood them , he might have spar'd his pains in all he hath here said ; having only beaten the air , and fought with his own shadow . 't is not therefore the gentlemans being meanly read , as he says , but the clergy-mans not understanding what he reads , that obtrudes upon the world the errors and absurdities we here meet with ; the query not being so impertinent , as his ignorance apprehends it ; nothing being more evidently unjust , then that any should suffer as transgressors in those matters , wherein in none are authorised to pass a judicial definitive sentence , whether they have therein transgressed or not ; in which case , to punish , is to execute before judgement ; and that , we say , is such a violation of the law and light of nature , as no sober or judicious heathen was ever yet guilty of , have we not then to do with an ingenious and pleasant person , who having spent above twenty pages to no purpose , being wholly from the question , hath at last the face or folly rather , to tell us , he hopes , now it appears to be no violation of the law or light of nature , to inflict punishments in matters of religion : when every child that could but read english would have told him ; that not to inflict punishments in matters of religion , but to execute before judgement , was the violation of the law and light of nature mention'd in the querie : and though this might serve for a sufficient reply , to so pertinent and judicious an answer ; yet least he should conceit himself , to have said something material , though not to the present question , we will examine all he here says , as we have done his preceding answers , though little or nothing to the questions before him , as every intelligent and discerning reader sees . none sure ever denyed judicious heathens to have been guilty of inflicting coporal punishments upon christians ; yet did none of them ever do it , before they judg'd christianity it self criminal ; and so did not execute before judgement , though it were an erronious and an unrighteous judgement . and if , as he says , it were heretofore the devils policy to serve himself of those who were most eminent for intellectual and moral accomplishments in persecuting christs disciples , to beget in undiscerning minds the greater prejudice against them ; he seems now to have lost much of his ancient subtilty , rarely imploying in that base work , but the most vicious and flagitious livers . it will , i doubt not , puzzle this answerer to prove what he affirms , viz. that they who are serious and reserv'd , and stictest in their lives and conversations , are the greatest opposers of gods truths , and the churches peace ; the contrary being evident , and the very assertion , a contradiction of it self . liberty of conscience , and the magistates power in religion , have of late , indeed been the subject of many mens thoughts and discourses . but none , sure , do affirm that the magistrate is not to use all due and proper means to bring men to the knowledge of god , and of the service he requries of them : but that secular force is a means conducive thereunto ; many , indeed , do deny : the liberty of conscience therefore pleaded for , by those who are concern'd for the honour of religion , and power of godliness ; is not , as he says , that men may serve , or not serve god , at their pleasure , but that all men may be allowed the liberty of serving god , as by the rule of his word , they judge he would be served , while under pretence thereof , they become not guilty of any ral evil or impiety : and that none be forc'd to conform to such ways and modes of worship , as they judge sinful , or may not be fully perswaded of the lawfulness of ; since whatever is not of faith , is sin. but as the best of things , are not exempt from the worst of abuses , so 't is not impossible , but as some plead for liberty of conscience , that they may render unto god an acceptable service ; others again may plead for liberty also , to be excused , the preformance of those duties god requires of them : to distinguish therefore between these , ought to be the magistrates great care and concern . but for this answerer to say , because ' its the magistrates duty to let men alone in the duty they ow to god their creator and redeemer , ( i.e. in the preformance of those religious duties god requires of them , and none can deny to be truly such ; ) therefore god may be either serv'd or blasphem'd , own'd or disown'd , by them ; is such a conclusion , as none i think but himself , would have made : for no sober man , sure , ever doubted it the magistrates duty to see , as much as in him lyes , that god be own'd , and duly serv'd , by all under him : and all moral evils and impieties , restrain'd and punisht . nor can any pretence of conscience excuse , much less justifie , as he says , blasphemy ; or exempt any guilty thereof , or of the like moral evils , from the magistrates revenging power , which were , indeed , for him to bear the sword in vain . and now our answerer , craves his reader 's patience , by speaking , as he says , something largely to this query ; when he should have crav'd his pardon rather for mistaking the question , and entertaining him with so impertinent and tedious a combate with his own shadow : but so bewitching is the pleasure of conquest , that sensible of his advantage on his man of straw , he never thinks he has sufficiently beaten him . to begin therefore , he craves leave to tell the gentleman , the clergyman is none of the wisest , to think that doomsday's judgement is the judgement here spoken of . but to do him right on all occasions , he is very much in the right , in saying , 't is no anticipation of gods judgement at doomsday , to inflict corporal or pecuniary penalties upon those that offend against the known and plain rules of duty in matters of religion ; and therefore he need not have askt to have it shown , why it should be so , more in religion , then in civil concerns . a magistrate , saith he , for pronouncing a sentence of condemnation upon a felon or a murtherer , may be said to execute before judgement , as well as a justice of peace for granting a warrant to leavy d . upon an atheist or papist , for not repairing upon the lords day to his parish church : and why then will this gentleman ( this ignorant gentleman ) say , that the execution of such a mild , or perhaps a severer law , is a violation of the very law and light of nature ? it is indeed a question fit to be askt , and had been a folly never to have been answer'd , had he said any such thing . but with this learned and judicious answerers good leave , the gentleman will take leave to say , that should a magistrate pronounce sentence of condemnation , and execute a felon , or a murtherer , before he were convict and judg'd a felon , or a murtherer ; it would be such a violation of the law and light of nature , as no sober or judicious heathen was ever yet guilty of . the like may be said of levying d . upon any for not coming to church , before he be convict of not coming , and his not coming , judg'd a crime . that all nations , whether jewish , heathen or christian , have as he says , assum'd to themselves the power of protecting the honour of those dieties they have made the object of their worship , and punisht those offenders that have either neglected their duty , or affronted the majesty of those gods which they have pretended to serve ; is so evident and notorious , and agreeable to the law and light of nature , that 't is time lost to prove it ; our answerer therefore , might have spar'd his pains in this particular , and not have given himself the trouble of proving , what none sure ever deny'd or doubted . but he tells us of grotius his observation out of sneca , viz. that those who violate religion , have various kinds of punishments inflicted on them , but there is no nation but inflicts some . no certainly , it being so far from a violation of the law and light of nature , that nothing is more consonant thereunto . and who , i pray , are greater violators of religion , then they who subvert , or alter its divine or original institutions ? when numa pompilius , as he observes , instituted a pontifex maximus , or chief priest , and committed to him all the sacred writings and mysteries , gave him order with what sacrifices , and upon what days , and in what places the rites of religion were to be perforwed ; had it not been a violation of his religion , to have us'd other sacrifices , upon other days , in other places , and with other rites then he appointed ? and if among heathens , as he farther observes , both publick and private mysteries were all determined by the chief priest , that it might be known where the common people might repair to worship their gods , lest there should be any disorder or confusion in religion , either by neglecting the sacred rites of their country , or introducing any that were foreign and strange : shall not we allow the lord jesus our high priest to determine the sacred mysteries of his religion , with all rites and ceremonies thereof , that under pretence of order and decency , there may not be introduced , that disorder and confusion in the christian religion , we see at this day , through the neglect of those sacred rites of his institution , and the introducing such as are forraign and strange into his worship . let not , therefore , those that abhor idols , commit sacrildge : and if heathen romans , as he observes , were so careful , that none but the roman dieties might be worship'd ; ●nd that after no other manner but that of their own institution ; how much more careful and concerned ought christians to be , that none but the almighty , the holy one of israel be worship'd , and that after no other manner , then that of his own institution and appointment . and since , as this answerer observes , that wise people were so jealous and careful , least any innovation should be made in their religion ; and least its vniformity and integrity should be dissolved by the customs and mixtures of other countries ; how much more ought christs disciples to be jealous and careful that no innoventions be made , or humane inventions added to christs institutions , either as to matter , or to mannes , ( beyond the orderly observance of such circumstances as necessarily attend such ordinances , as christ himself hath instituted ) least the uniformity and integrity of his worship , should be dissolv'd by the customs and mixtures of other countries ; in the establishing of different ways and modes of worship , according to the variety of mens inventions and fancies . and since , not only grotius from st. anstin , observes , that the romans were successful in their arms , because they had a hearty respect and veneration for religion : but the apostle tell us , that godliness hath the promise of this life , as well as of that which is to come ; surely it can be against no rule or form of justice , or prudence , nor any violation of the law or light of nature ; for christian princes to be as zealous for a true religion , as the heathens were for a false one . but , as the wise man says , he that answereth a matter before he hear it ; so he that answereth a question before he understands it , it shall be ● folly and shame unto him . and now we are told of the zeal and care , the holy kings and governours of the jewish nation , had of religion , which will never prove , that to execute before judgement , is no violation of the law and light of nature : nor in the least prejudice any principle these queries labour to support . when he shall inform us , what davids ordering the turns and courses of the priests ; and setting up musick in the temple , it is to this query , it may be consider'd of ; or if he would in●er from it , that civil magistrates , without particular warrant or commission from god , may order or appoint , in the worship and service of god ; what they please , or shall judge condu●ive to the honour and glory of god , or the ●ecent and orderly performance of divine worship , 't is a question we are not at present ●oncern'd in ; and shall therefore pass it by . asa did not any thing , which was by any ●enyed to be his duty ; nor commanded ought in others , which they did not acknowledge ●●kewise to be theirs ; and , notwitstanding ●ur answerers asserting the contrary ; the covenant which asa , and all judah and benjamin , and the strangers with them , enter'd into , was voluntary in all parties ; for it is said , they did it with all their heart , and with all their soul ; and again v. . they sware unto the lord with a loud voice and with shouting , and with trumpets , and with cornets ? and all judah rejoyced at the oath , for they had sworn with all their hearts , and sought him with their whole desire , and he was found of them : there cannot well be greater evidence to prove any action to have been voluntary ; for , god is not found of those who seek him not in sincerity , and with a willing mind ; who draw nigh unto ▪ him with their lips , while their hearts are far from him . let none therefore , too hastily credit this answerer in ought he says ; but like the noble bereans , search the scriptures , whether it be so o● no. jehoshaphat , we are told , used his coercive power in taking away the high places and groves dedicated to idolatry , and what did he therein ▪ which all judah acknowledg'd not to be his duty ? and who did ever deny it to be in the magistrates power , to send teachers to instruct● the people in the law of the lord ? or judg'd it a violation of the law or light of nature , so to do ? and what did jehojada , in putting athalia to death ; and in making a covenant between him and between all the people , and between the king ▪ that they should be the lords people : and i● breaking down the altars and images in the house of baal , and slaying the priests thereof before the altar ; which he had not good authority to do ? and which all judah approv'd not of ? the reformations of hezekiah and josiah , were very eminent , but nothing done by either of them ; or by any of the good kings of judah , doth in the least oppugne ought in this , or in any of these queries . what did hezekiah in opening the doors of the temple that had been long shut up , in cleansing the city , and kingdom from idols ; in restoring the priests to their offices and dues ; in reviving the sacrifices , which had been long neglected , and celebrating the pass-over with great magnificence ; more then what every mans conscience told him was right and necessary to be done . and did josiah , ( in making a covenant before the lord , to milk after the lord , and to keep his commandments , and his testimonies , and his statutes , with all his heart , and with all his soul , to perform the words of the covenant which are written in the book of the law of the lord ; and causing all that were present in jerusalem and benjamin , to stand to it ; yea , in making all that were present in israel to serve the lord their god ; do ought which any acknowledg'd not to be both his and their duty ? and how made he them to do all this ? was it by secular force and power ; or by reading unto them all the words of the book of the covenant that was found in the house of the lord ? was it not by convincing them it was their duty so to do ? for it reacht no farther then to those who were present ; and who denies the like power unto christian magistrates ? nor needs there any great search in the annals of time , and history of ages , to know that princes and people never more prosper'd , then when religion was countenanc't , idolatry punisht and the great causes and occasions of schism ( the requiring other terms and conditions of church-fellowship and communion , then god requires ) were unknown or removed . nor is there ought in the instances before mentioned , that needs any such constructions or evasions as this answerer speaks of to reconcile them to the liberty in religion pleaded for : for who did ever deny unto magistrates power to command , and require their people to serve god , as god hath exprest and declar'd he will be serv'd ? or to remove such outward appearances and monuments of worship , as are evidently and apparently false and idolatrous ? which in both instances , was but the case of the before-mentioned kings of judah : but that which is excepted against , is the prohibiting any to worship god , in such a way as none can say to be against the mind and will of god , or displeasing unto him : or the compelling any to worship god in such a way , as they judge sinful ; or are not satisfied in the lawfulness of . and though the state of religion under the gospel , be far differing from what it was under the law ; yet , surely , princes are not , as he says , in a worse condition by the coming of christ , then they were in the jewish commonwealth ▪ where they had no power to command ought in religion , but what god willed or commanded ; and so they may do still , by all the ways and means appointed by god , and useful thereunto . but what is it this answerer hath found in the chap of isaiah , to prove the magistrates coercive power in religion ? gods affectionate answer to his peoples complaint , promising never to forget them , will not do it ; neither his promise of delivering them from their enemies , and adding to their numbers : nor yet , that kings should be nursing fathers , and queens nursing mothers to his church ; for nurses do not use to force and coerce their children ; but nourish and cherish them . but this place does indeed imply or promise , that there should be soveraign princes , who should nourish and cherish the people of god ; and take care that no hurt or violence be offer'd unto them , or to his church ; which is as much as the metaphor will bear , since true religion cannot be forc't , or upheld , by secular power : 't is antichristianism that is so supported and maintain'd , by those who give their power and strength unto the beast : and they carry the metaphor too farr , who would have princes , like nurses to feed their children ; christ having appointed other overseers of his flock for that works ; whom the magistrate ought indeed to protect and defend , in the performance thereof ; but not to dictate , nor prescribe to them therein . there may not be wanting expositors , who as he says , may conceive this prophesie to have been fulfilled , when emperours and kings became christians , and enacted laws to secure the faith of christ from all enemies , &c. though they have no great reason for it ; it being but too well known , that christian religion hath suffer'd more then ever it gain'd by pretended christian magistrates : for if constantine protected the truth ; his successor constantius , with divers others after him , persecuted it : yea , the generality of christian magistrates for above a thousand years together , by the instigations of the bishop of rome were its great opposers and oppressors : and though for several years past , god hath blessed this nation , beyond most of the nations of the earth , with kings and queens , who have protected and defended the truths of the gospel , and the people of god , from the tyranny and opprssieon of that great enemy to both ; yet in respect of christendom , there is little cause to say that this prophesie was fulfilled , when kings and emperours became christians . as there have been laws enacted by kings and states in behalf of the truth ; so there have been infinitely more enacted against it : error too soon and generally prevailing over the christian world ; which for a protestant to question , were to deny his faith. he cannot be thought a friend to truth , who shall oppose any means conducive unto its promotion ; but whoever shall consider , how few of the mighty and noble of the earth , to whom wordly power and authority is committed , are called unto the knowledge thereof ; must acknowledge likewise , that where one law bath been enacted in behalf of the truth , hundreds have been enacted to its prejudice : it is not therefore in opposition to truth , but for the truths sake , that we plead for its standing upon its own bottom ; and prevailing by its own strength and efficacy : for as the truths of the gospel were at first planted , and propagated throughout the world , by the ministry of the gospel , and influence of the divine spirit , without the aid and assistance of the secular power ; so by the same means and methods , they are best secured and preserved : nor is secular force and power a means by god appointed , or in its nature conducive to the promoting of truth , since 't is conviction and not force , must induce assent : and though some hereticks may have seem'd to retract their opinions , upon the severity of penal laws against them ; there is little reason to believe that any of them thereby became real converts ; for , though force may make an hypocrite , it can never make a true believer . if we believe not the donatists and independants so nearly related as this answerer tells us , having but his say so , without other proof ; and if we are not convinc't , that austins changing his mind , proves second thoughts to be always best ; it will not , we hope , be thought any violation of the law or light of nature ; 't is not unknown how that pious father was molested by that petulant faction , no wonder therefore he should approve of what ever delivered him from them . but would it not be very pleasant for magistrates to change their laws , as oft as doctors change their minds ; and that every new opinion should be the ground of a new statute : and yet i fully approve of what this learned and pious father that kings ( as is commanded them from heaven ) serve god in that office , when in their kingdoms , they command what is good ; and prohibit what is evil ; and that not only in things that belong unto humane society , but also unto divine religion : so they command but what is known and allowed to be good , and in mens power to do : and prohibit no more then what is by the light of nature , or some positive law of god , apparently evil ; and if there be more passages to the same purpose , as this answerer tells us , he may spare his pains in transcribing them ; for that they make as little to his purpose , as against ours . and whereas he tells us , the same arguments the socinians and independants , urge against the magistrates coercive power , were in st. austin ' s days , made use of by the donatists , and answered by that father ; the substance of which was , that no man was to be compelled to the faith ; and that religion was not to be chosen , but out of freedom of will : let him prove the contrary , and i will own my self his convert . and though nothing be more evident to common sense and reason ; so that it needs no authority to countenance or support it : yet since he pretends authority against it , he may her● likewise , if he please , what others have said for it . a man , saith our learned dr. stillingfleet , hath not the power over his own understanding , much less can other have it , and then cites , picus mirandulus , saying , nullus credit aliquid esse verum ; quia vult credere id esse verum ; non est enim in potestate hominis facere aliquid apperere intellectui suo verum quando voluerit : no man can believe any thing to be true , because he would believe it true ; for it is not in a mans power to make what he will appear true to him . and lactantius saith , non opus vi & injuria , quia religio cogi non potest ; there needs no force and injury ( for so he esteems force in religion to be ) for that religion cannot be compelled . and saith ambrose ) ea quae divina , imperatoniae potestati non esse subjecta : divine things are not subject to the emperours power , and again , writing to valentinian the younger , he saith , ut putes te in ea quae divina sunt , imperiale aliquod jus habere : do not think thy self to have any imperial right over divine things . and else where , that christ sent his disciples to sow the faith ; who were not to compell , but to teach ; not to exercise force and power , but to extol the doctrine of humility . so tertullian , lex nava uon se vindicat vltore gladio . the gospel does not support it self by the secular power . and says hilarie , deus cognitionem sui docuit potius , quam exegit ; god hath rather taught , then extorted the knowledge of himself . and writing to the emperour constantius ; we beseech , faith he , not with words only , but with tears , that the catholick church be no longer oppressed with greivous injuries ; and sustain into-berable persecution and contumelies , and that which is shameful , even of our brethren : let your elemency therefore provide and appoint ; that all judges every where , to whom provinces are committed , who ought to take care and charge of commonwealth matters only , refrain medling with religion . the like may be produc'd from most of the fathers , who expressly exclude force and complusion in religion , being unanimous in this ; that no man ought to be required to profess , what he believes not ; nor practise in religion , what he approves not . it is not , therefore sufficient for this answerer to tell us , that many of the ancients own and have proved the magistrates coercive power in the concerns of religion ; without giving us farther evidence thereof ; since the nature and being of religion , is inconsistent with compulsion : though 't is not denied , but that the magistrate may require the performance of those religious duties , which none can deny to be such ; which is as much as any of the good kings of israel or judah ever did ; which none sure , ever thought to be any violation of the law or light of nature . nor does the statute primo elizabethae , prove as he says , that our ancestors had other thoughts concerning this matter : because they levyed the penalty of d . upon such persons as had no lawfull or reasonable excuse for not coming to church ; since they who have not that , and yet come not , may reasonably enough be punisht . if independants , who say a man should not steal , do themselves steal , they are the more inexcusable : but 't is not impossible but this answerer may be mistaken in matter of fact : for , though he would have it thought , the quakers who were put to death in new-england , suffer'd for religion ; the contrary is well known ; it being only for the insufferable disturbances they gave to the publick worship of god , wherever they came ; and that not till after other ways and means were used to have reclaimed them , or prevented those disorders ; they returning after banishment upon banishment ; and even at the place of execution , were offer'd their lives , if they would then but have promised to depart the country , or to forbear disturbing the publick assemblies for the worship of god , as is related in the printed narrative of that matter : and though it cannot be denyed , but some milder course might have been taken with them ; yet they suffer'd not for religion , but for disturbing the publick peace , in disturbing the publick worship and service of god. as for his conclusive citation out of calvin . that there are none plead against the magistrates coercive power and sword of justice , but those who out of consciousness of their own heresies , schisms , and misdeeds , are in danger and affraid of suffering by it ; and therefore would wrest the sword out of the magistrates hand , that they might persevere in their heresies , schisms , blasphemies , and offences without punishment and remorse : if these are the words of that eminent divine and servant of gods , i can upon my own sure and certain knowledge say , he is therein greatly mistaken , in that there are who plead against the magistrates coercive power in religion , on no other account then the interest of the truth , and happiness of all interests ; that so neither the magistrate may incur the guilt of punishing the innocent ; nor the guiltless suffer in the place of the nocent , through that darkness and ignorance , which is upon the minds of the most of men , in the things of god , and the truths of religion ; of which whoever is not convinc't , by the too lamentable experience of almost all ages , times , and places , in which truth hath suffer'd in the stead of error , and error been promoted instead of truth ; i shall not hope to rectifie their judgements , by any thing i can here say . did , indeed , any plead for blasphemers or evil-doers ; or that impious or immoral persons of any kind , might be exempt from the magistrates jurisdiction and authority to punish , there might be some colour for what hath been here said ; but while the plea is only against the magistrates interposing and exercising his power and authority , in disputable points , in controversies only of truth and error in religion , of which he is not a competent judge , and which are not within his province to determine and punish ; it is a most unreasonable and uncharitable censure , not improbably proceeding from this eminent and good man ( though herein greatly mistaken ) upon occasion of his too severe dealing with servetus , whom he caused to be burnt alive at geneva . query viii . whether it is not incongruous and heterogeniall , to punish corporally , man erring spiritually ? reply to the answer to this query . the question is not here , whether any judge or justice can take cognizance of mens thoughts or consciences ; nor when wickedness in the heart is manifested by external action , whether liable to the magistrates power and inspection ; none , i think , ever questioning either of them . but whether men erring spiritually , ought corporally to be punisht . paul 's reckoning heresies among the works of the flesh ; and telling the gorinthians they were carnal , from the schisms and disorders that were amongst them , does not prove it . but says this answerer , certainly any sensual sin may be punisht by the civil sword : what thinks he then of hatred , wrath , covetousness , emulations , envyings , and the like ; which are sensual sins , or works of the flesh , yet not therefore to be punisht by the civil sword. but why are they as he tells us , who gather churches , &c. more then spiritually erronious ? how comes that which was the great errand and duty of the apostles , and their immediate successors ; now to become so great a crime ? is it that men , or children rather , are now born christians ? or being born in a christian commonwealth ( as it is usually , though improperly exprest ) or in such , or such a parish , they do thereby become a church of christ ? no one , certainly , who understands what either a christian , or a church of christ is , can think so . and wherein do they , as he says , dispise government , and trample upon all laws ? did he not but now tell us , the church was a society , and that there can be no society without government ; how then comes the gathering of churches to be a despising of government , and trampling upon all laws ? undoubtedly there is a law , and a divine law to , for the gathering of churches , if the gospel be the law of god ; as i hope , neither this answerer , nor any who own themselves christians , doubt it to be . there is little reason , sure to say as he does , the inticers to idolatry , mention'd in deutromony , might as well have pleaded , it was only an error of their minds , as any of our dissenting ministers ; for that none , certainly , can imagine that it could be a sin of ignorance in them , to draw any from the true god , to worship idols ; it being against the very light of nature , in that , as the apostle tell us , that which may be known of god , was manifest in them . it may therefore , for any thing this answerer hath here said , be both incongruous and heterogenial , to punish corporally , men erring spiritually . query ix . whether secular force and compulsion , in things of divine and supernatural revelation , be not the arms of antichrist , and not of the true church ? reply to the answer to this query . this answerer might have done well to hae inform'd us , how secular force and compulsion in religion towards some , is , as he says , anti-christian , and not towards other ; the difference not being evident , at least to all capacities . we are not here enquiring after , what is so much a violation of the law of nations , as of the law of nature : and though our answerer expresses his dislike of the spaniards dealings with the indians ; graciously acknowledging that propriety is not forfeited by unbelief ; yet but now speaking of dissenters here , he said , if they disapprove of the decisions of their superiours , the world is wide enough , they may leave the government , and betake themselves to the communion of purer churches ; which is but in other words to say , be of the religion of your country , or abanden your properties , with the land of your nativity . but should providence permit the establishment of a religion in this nation he approves not of , ( if he be not resolv'd to approve of whatever shall be the national religion ) would he not think himself hardly dealt with , to be requir'd to conform , or to abandon his native country ? he may do well therefore , to meditate a little on that no less divine , then moral precept ; of doing to others , as he would they should do to him . the cannon he mentions , is indeeed , very pertinent to our purpose : so likewise is what he cites from tertullian and lactantius : but then , without the least colour or shadow of reason ; ( and perhaps only because grotius says , it is not just or lawful to make war upon any , because they will not embrace the christian religion ) he would have this to be understood only of princes raising wars , against pagan nations to compel and force them to the profession of christianity , and imbracing of the gospel . but 't is very well and judiciously observ'd of him , that these things nothing concern a kingdom , in which there is a visible and universal profession of the same religion ; in that there is , indeed , no need of compelling or forcing any to profess , what all already do profess . but yet , even in such a kingdom , magistrates , he says , may use compulsive methods to secure their people from a totall and manifest apostacy from the true faith , &c. which we would freely allow him , if compulsive methods could secure a people from apostacy ; and that through ignorance or mistake of the truth , magistrates did not too often instead thereof compell to error . but none sure will say , but that magistrates may , and ought , to repress such seducers as threaten the extirpation of their own government : yea , and of the true faith too ; were it once determined , which amongst the many that would be so accounted , were the true . what he says of the religious princes of the jewish church , hath been already spoken to . query x. whether any one can be compelled by secular force or compulsion , to perform any one religious duty acceptably ; since god accepts not of any but what is vol●ntary , and of faith , which cannot be forc't ? and of what use then , is secular force and compulsion in religion , but to make men sin or suffer ? reply to the answer to this query . this query , which this answerer says , with others is forged in the shops of the socinians and anabaptists ; is with the rest grounded on the rule of gods word : with which he seems to be little acquainted , or with the due performance of religious duties , in saying , that it might with as much strength of reason , be urg'd against the magistrates using compulsive methods towards his subjects for the performance of the duties of the d . table , a● those of the first , there being some difference be●ween forcing men to moral actions and divine duties : since in things moral , the action , however circumstantiated , is in it self positively good or evil : but in things of divine institution , the manner only of the performance makes the action good or evil ; and therefore it is said , he that sacrificeth an ox , is as if he kild a man ; and he that killeth a lamb as if he cut off a dogs neck ; where the manner of performing the command , is not observ'd as well as the matter . the like may be said of all such gospel duties , the goodness whereof depends wholly upon the institution ; and therein the manner as well as the matter , must be punctually observ'd ; nay the manner of performing these duties , determines the matter of them ; for if they be performed in their due manner , the action is good ; if not , the action it self is sinfull . this answerer therefore runs himself into this error , by not distinguishing between things in their own nature good or evil , and those things whose goodness depends wholly upon institution ; and consequently on their due performance . authority , therefore , may oblige men to be loyal and peaceable , honest and just , which are moral vertues ; and punish them , if they be rebellious and seditious , injurious and theives , which are moral evils . yet , cannot force any in the sight of god to an acceptable performance of the one , nor abstinence from the other ; because god accepts only of the heart ; or an hearty obedience , which cannot be so forc't . it hath been already acknowledg'd , in the case of the kings of israel and judah , that magistrates may command their people to serve god , as god hath commanded ; and they are convinc't and satisfied , he will be served ; but no otherwise , since whatever , is not of faith , is sin ; which the magistrate may not compel to : yet may he prohibit the doing of any thing , which may either dishonour or destroy government . every king is , as he says , both the minister of god , and the ruler of his people ; and oblig'd to the duties he mentions , as hath been already acknowledg'd . nor are as he says , our governours so much to consider our willingness to serve god , as our benefit , and their duty : but it is neither their duty to force any to worship god , after any other way or manner , then they are perswaded god will be worship't ; or that will be acceptable unto him ; since , as hath been said , what is not faith , is sin , which the magistrate by forcing to , becomes guilty of . nor is it for their peoples benefit to be forc't to any thing in religion , beyond their convictions ; all such performances being in themselves sinfull . and for this answerer to say , it will perhaps , be found as great an act of justice and charity , to force some to go to church , as 't is to force some boys to go to school ; speaks him very unfit to be an instructer and teacher of others , who is himself so unacquainted with the nature and essence of religion . and whereas he says , the magistrate will find the benefit by exercising his coercive power , ( in matters of religion , for 't is of that alone we are here speaking ) in securing the honour of his own laws and authority ; the contrary is most evident : for wherever his authority interposeth it self where the authority of god is immediately concern'd , ( as it is in all the actions and duties of religion ) and shall by religious and pious persons be judg'd to interfer therewith ; it will certainly be contemn'd and disobeyed , as were the decrees of nebuchadnezzar and darius , recorded in the third and sixth chapters of daniel ; and as was the authority of the chief priests and of the rulers of the jews , when they forbad peter and john to speak or teach in the name of jesus . nor is it likely to be more beneficial to the persons on whom such methods are used ; for being no means of gods appointment unto any such ends , as well as in its own nature thereunto improper , his blessing cannot be expected to go along with it . and to say , 't is better for men to come within the possibility of being perswaded to religion , and reduced to sober apprehensions of it ; then to continue in their schisms , and voluntary neglect of all piety ; is very wide from this question , which neither countenances schism , nor discountenances piety ; but would not that any should be forced to serve god , in any other way or manner , then god will be served , or they judge acceptable unto him ; nor are all to be charged with schism , and a voluntary neglect of piety , who frequent not the publick worship wherever , they live : much less to be out of a possibility of being perswaded to religion , and void of all sober apprehensions of it : which yet compulsion is so far from perswading or reducing any unto , that its efficacy lyes the other way ; it breeds rather an aversion and abhorrency towards it , and towards those that use it . but says our answerer , suppose the worst , ( viz. ) that compelling men to church , do not produce any inward change in their minds ; yet certainly 't is a means conducive to so blessed an end : but who , i would know , tells him so ? 't is no means , i am sure , of christs appointment ; nor did he himself ever use it ; salvation indeed , he offer'd , which who so refus'd at his peril ; those that had ears to hear , let them hear , being the usual conclusion of his sermons : he sent likewise his disciples to preach the kingdom of god , but not to force or compel any to hear them : but suppose , says the pious and learned bishop davenant , some should be so obstinate they will not receive this gospel , shall they then exercise no temporal power ? none at all , says he , they are commanded to shake off the dust from their feet as a testimony against them ; but they are not commanded to compel them by any external force or violence . i would gladly know of this answerer , should providence permit the re-establishment of popery in this nation , whether the compelling him to church , would be a means conducive to his conversion ; if it will , can he doubt but they who would esteem it a blessed work , should not be as zealous for it then , as he is now ? perhaps he may say the case is not the same ; for he is in the right , while all others , on either hand of him , are in the wrong ; which is not impossible , though very improbable ; yet whilst others think themselves as much in the right as he , the case will be the same , and he may reasonably enough expect the same measure he metes , will be measur'd to him again . that hypocrasie , the sin against which our blessed saviour denounced so many woes , should be preferred , as by him it is , for the honour of religion ; is what i have not before met with : such preachers therefore , may well plead for compelling to their churches ; who are not otherwise likely to have many hearers . nor do i understand the logick of all mens being advantag'd by forceable methods ; because some may be externally reform'd ; while others again are thereby apparently injur'd . and to what purpose does he here talk of mens being restrained from acting their abominable lusts ; which we no less wish then he ; nor does this query infer the contrary , though he would have it thought to countenance impiety , and a scornful contempt of the church , and iustitutions of christ ; when it aims only at the promoting of piety , in a due observation of christ's institutions ; by which the nations , as well as gods honour , will be best secured . ahabs humiliation which he instances in , was a voluntary action ; he did it not by constraint , but was thereunto moved by what the prophet said unto him , and makes not therefore against the drift of this query . and who doubts that if a stop were put to gross schisms ( i mean what are truly such , and not unduly so call'd ) and bare fac'd atheism , with other villanies that abound amongst us , but it would be acceptable unto god , and all good men : as likewise the restr●ining of seducers , from propagating their contagious errors , would this answerer but ( vouchsafe a clear and positive answer to the th query , and ) tell us ; who is judge of truth and error , in disputable points of religion , and not always leave it to the strongest to determine . and to talk of lawless and licencious practices , being universally pleaded for ; when the plea is only for a liberty to serve god ▪ in faith without doubting , is a strain beyond the ordinary bounds of truth and honesty . but says our answerer , if men are so perverse and incorrigible as not to be reform'd themselves , yet the punishme●ts that are inflicted upon them , may prevent the like sin in others : they may so , in such things as any are convinc't to be sins : but what any shall judge to be theirs and others indispensable duties ; the punishing of some for those things , will not deterr others , who fear god , more then men , from doing the like , whatever they suffer for it : but so something be said , and authorities cited , it matters not how applicable to the present question . query xi . whether christ's rule of his disciples under the gospel be not by a spiritual power ? and whether to use the temporal sword in religious matters , be not to make the weapons of the gospel , not mighty through god , but mighty through the magistrates power ; to arm the church with weapons , christ never gave her ; and to make her a military , rather then a spiritual society . reply to the answer to this query . though what is mighty through the magistrates power , is , as he says , mighty through god , as he is the original and fountain of all power ; yet the apostle tells us , the weapons of their warfare are not carnal ; whereby he distinguishes between the carnal power of the civil magistrate , by which the world is govern'd , in all worldly affairs and concerns ; and the spiritual power wherewith christ rules his subjects under the gospel : which this answerer seems altogether unacquainted with ; having , possibly , never felt the power and efficacy thereof in his own soul ; and to talk to such of a spiritual power , is like talking to blind men of colours . but the magistrate , says he , is gods minister , and that to the benefit and welfare of mens souls , as well as their worldly and outward estates : but how , or in what manner to the benefit and welfare of their souls , he is not at present dispos'd to tell us ; but would have us to believe , the reason why christ never made use of the civil magistrates power , to recommend , or obtrude , as he phrases it , his doctrine on the world ; was because the secular powers were in the days of his flesh , in open enmity and hostility against him . but does he think christ could not as easily have converted magistrates , as others ; had he so pleased ? or does he not know that to him was given all power both in heaven and on earth ; and that had he thought it necessary or expedient for the interest of religion , he could as well have commanded the magistrates power , as any other ? but he declin'd it , as we may reasonably enough suppose , to manifest to the world , that the gospel , or true religion , was wholly founded upon spiritual power , was compleat therein , and needed not the aid and assistance of secular force : but the argument against the magistrates power in matters of religion , is not so much from christs not using it , as from the nature of religion , which cannot be so forc't , it being seated in those faculties , to which outward violence can have no access : so that the unsuitableness of the means to the end aimed at , as well as christs not serving himself of it for the propagation of christian religion ; with the sufficiency of that spiritual power , in the gifts he gave unto his ministers for the perfecting of the saints , for the work of the ministry , and for the edifying of his body ; is that which renders the magistrates authority in matters of religion , not necessary , not to say more . and whereas this answerer says , that christ was armed with such miraculous power from heaven , that he did not need any assistance from empires or states ; does he think his arm shortned ? or that he now stands in more need of secular assistance , then heretofore ? we argue not against the churches making use of the authority of kings , to protect herself against force and violence ▪ or the injuries or oppressions of any , but against magistrates imposing on her , or on any , in matters of faith and worship ; and yet we say , with this answerer , that our blessed saviour , in erecting his church , never intended to diminish the power of magistracy ; neither hath he , it being the same now it ever was ; magistrates having the same power now that ordinarily they ever had : nor is there any thing in christian religion , but what is , not only consistent , but highly advantagious to civil states and societies ; in that it reacheth conscientious obedience to authority , wheresoever , and in whomsoever lodg'd ; and faithfull dealings between man and man. though the church be as he says , a military , she is still a spiritual society ; the weapons of ●h●se warfare are not carnal , but mighty through ( the spirit of ) god , ( not the power of the magistrate ) to the pulling down of strong bolds ; and every high thing that exalteth it self against the knowledge of god , and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of christ. if this answerer can tell us of any other weapons belonging to her , we shall own our obligation to him , for the discovery . query xii . whether to say the spiritual power christ hath given unto his church , for the right ordering and governing thereof , is not sufficient unto that end , without the aid and assistance of the secular power , be not to blaspheme . reply to the answer to this query . we were promis'd in the last answer , to be shown in this , what were the weapons of the churches warfare ; but instead thereof , are there told , the end only of christs giving power to his church ; which none , sure , ever doubted to be for the edification , not destruction , of the souls of his people : yet we still say , with the apostle , the weapons of the churches warfare , are not carnal ; that christ gave gifts , and neither swords nor guns unto men , for the perfecting of saints , for the work of the ministry , and for the edifying of his body ; and that the spiritual power he gave unto his church , for the right ordering and governing thereof , is sufficient unto that end . and wherein doth this permit men to renounce the common christianity , &c. as this answerer very impertinently objecteth . and 't is left to the judgement of all rational men , whether they who insist upon the sufficiency of the spiritual power , christ hath given unto his church , for the right ordering and governing thereof ; and the scriptures being the sole rule of every mans faith and obedience , in all gospel duties and administrations ; or they who allow unto every national or provincial church , a power to decree articles of faith , and compose forms of divine worship , to be imposed by civil magistrates upon christians ; are the more likely to lead into the paths of heresie and schism ; and to destroy the vnity of the church , and consequently whether these or those , do gratifie the old serpent in his malitious wiles and methods , and give leave to his instruments to accomplish their hellish designs , in destroying christianity , and the churches government at one blow : i say again , let every rational and unprejudiced person , considering the nature and essence of christianity , and by what ways and methods it hath been corrupted and destroyed , judge . gods name is not , indeed , blasphemed as he says , when his institutions are made use of , to uphold his truths , &c. but he hath no where instituted the civil sword , to force any to the christian faith ; much less to uphold whatever is taught , or pretended so to be . and if his name be blasphemed , when mens minds are alienated from the christian religion ; they will be found guilty thereof , who use such means and methods , for its propagation ( as they pretend ) as beget an aversion in many towards it , and those that use them . and who is it that would make the profession thereof arbitrary ? they who say , the spiritual power christ hath given unto his church for the right ordering and governing thereof , is sufficient unto that end , cannot reasonably be said so to do . and wherefore doth he here talk of every be●ted brain , and sulpherous male-content , being left to serve god , or serve him not ; to believe in christ , or openly to deny and blaspheme him : when all we pray , and plead for , is but , that the word of the lord may have a free course ; and that his name may be glorified , in the free exercise of all religious duties ; without ever denying it the magistrates duty , to punish blasphemy , and the like evils and impieties . but 't were worth knowing from this learned and judicious answerer , how far any are obliged to ad here to the church in which they were baptized , that we may not have too hard thoughts of our first reformers , for forsaking the church , in which they partook of that sacrament . it is , as he says , one thing to convert pagans and infidels to christianity , and another thing to keep them within the bounds of their duty , who already profess it : and yet are both effected by the same means ; and the magistrate can no more compel unto the one , then to the other : but when men give up their names to christ , 't is certainly as he says , the duty of church-men , to use all lawfull ( and proper ) means , to prevent their apostacy from him . but who are the incorrigible offenders he speaks of ? or what occasion doth this query administer , to ask why the magistrate may not be requested to save a soul from death , &c. the magistrate may certainly be requested to punish sin and wickedness , it being the great end for which god committed the power of the sword to him ; but he can no more save a soul from death , and rescue him out of the snare of the devil ; then he can give grace or faith , which are the gifts of god alone ; yet this hinders not , but that magistrates and ministers , ought to use all due and lawful means , to reduce men to christianity , and prevent their apostacy from it . there is no more need now , then in the primitive ages of the church , that its acts and censures , should be seconded by the sword of the secular power : our blessed saviour who is faithfull , having promised to be with his disciples , teaching what he commanded them , to the worlds end . and that there is so little of power and efficacy in in the acts and censures of some who would be accounted his disciples ; is not that christ hath withdrawn any of that ordinary power he gave unto his ministers , for the perfecting of the saints , and the edifying of his body ; but their failure in the condition annexed to his promise in not teaching what he commanded ; but setting up their own inventions and devices , in the place of his institutions ; were the censures of the church as orderly and regularly pronounc't now as heretofore ; they would have the same effects now as then , upon the souls and consciences of believers ; what effect they had upon their bodies , we are rather told , then convinc't of ; for the intestuous corinthian's being deliver'd unto satan ; was no more , then ( as hath been already said ) his being cast out of the church , the kingdom of god , into the world , the kingdom of the devil : nor were the deaths of ananias and saphira , with the blindness of ellmas the sorcerer , the effects of any church acts or censures ; but of that extraordinary power christ conferred on his apostles , to manifest his power and authority to the unbelieving world , and to say , it was to supply the defect of the magistrates coercive power in the church ; as if the churches power were defective , without the magistrates sword ; is highly derogatory unto that spiritual power and authority , christ hath given unto the ministers of his gospel , for the ordering and governing of his church , unto the worlds end 't is , as one hath well observ'd , much of christs glory to rule his subjects under the gospel by a spiritual power ; 't is that power makes a man a christian ; 't is that power in all gospel institutions , that keeps men in their due obedience unto christ ; and 't is that power carries the sting of the punishment , when men are cast out of the church : 't is indeed , that power does all under the gospel , and to bringin the temporal sword , is to make the weapons of the gospel , not mighty through god , but mighty through the magistrates power ; and wholly to alter the nature of the gospel , and all its institutions ; 't is to a●m the church with weapons christ never gave her ; and to make her a military , rather then a spiritual society . what he says , of dissenters being p●nisht , for indangering the peace of the state , by disobeying the laws of the church ; shall be spoken to , when he tells us , what laws , and what church he here means : nor can we till then say , how the interest of those societies , are twisted and united : but do very well know it to have been one of the greatest artifices in the mystery of iniqu●ty , so to twist the civil , and some pretended religious interests ; as to preswade the world , the oak cannot subsist without the ivie : but as well reason as experience , have evidenc'd the contrary ; and that there are no greater enemies to the authority , state and dignity of civil magistrates then some pretenders to religion . query xiii . whether the carnal conjunction of the temporal power with the spiritual , hath not made all ecclesiasticall regiment odious , and unsavory ; and serv'd only to enable the clergy , under the pretence of the power of the gospel , to trample , by the power of the world , mankind under their feet ? reply to the answer to this query . this answerer might with as good reason have said , there is no more spirituality in the ordinances of the gospel , then there was in the ordinances under the law ; as that there is no more carnality in the present vnion of the civil power with the ecclesiasticall ; then there was in the jewish church or commonwealth : for who , besides himself , is ignorant how god himself united those , making that church and state but one commonwealth , over which himself presided ; whereby they became rather a spiritual , then a civil society ; a theocracy , or a people whom god govern'd by princes and rulers extraordinarily assisted and inspired by him ; or guided and directed by prophets occasionally sent to declare his mind and will unto them . so that it was god himself that made that church and state one ; he that was a member of the state , thereby becoming a member of the church likewise . but it is otherwise under the gospel , the church and state being now distinct societies ; and a man may be a member of the one , without being so of the other : nor are their concerns otherwise intermixt , then in the churches enjoying peace and protection from the righteous rule and government of the state ; and the state prosperity from the prayers and blessings of the church . those therefore whom god then joyn'd , he hath now sever'd ; and for any other to bring them again together , is , as one very well says , presumptious fornication . the attempt of core and his complices , he instances in , was undoubtedly a sin in them , as the like would be in any now ; which both magistrates and ministers ought to use their several interests and authorities to prevent , and this query is far from giving the least countenance or incouragement unto . though the assistance given by moses to aaron , did not , as he says , incite him to trample upon the people ; yet they who have given their power and strength unto the beast , and his adherents , have enabled them , under a pretext of the power of the gospel , to trample , by the power of the world , mankind under their feet ; to depose princes , subvert states , and butcher people ; and indeed , to make the rest of mankind but their slaves and vassals : a truth so well known unto all , who are not willfully b●ind or wholly ignorant in history , and the transactions of former ages , wherever the man of sin , and son of perdition had power ; it wouldbe time lost to go about to prove it . that ministers are made , as he says , the formal cause of the hatred and contempt of too many persons ; may be both their faults , for , though several treatises bave been lately written to shew the grounds of the contempt of the clergy , it may be comprehended in two lines . pretending piety , by some contemn'd , but more by others , 'cause they but pretend . i mean too many of them , which gives a disreputation to the whole , though there are ( god be thanked ) many reverend , learned and pious persons of the function deserving double honour , both for their own , and their workes sake : and may the number of them be daily increased . but none have cause to be comforted as he says , that the same fate hath happen'd to others more deserving ; unless they tread in their steps , and suffer on the same account with them : but it is , and may be just cause of satisfaction unto any to be scorn'd and contemn'd by those , whose respect and esteem would be a reproach : wo be unto you , said our blessed saviour ; when all men shall speak well of yon , we acknowledge therefore there are those , whose commendations wound , and whose favour is a reflection ; and from such , we neither expect , nor desire praise . query xiv . whether to force and compel men in the worship and service of god , to act against their light and judgements , be not a spiritual rape upon their consciences ? reply to the answer to this query . it may possibly , puzzle this answerer to prove this query sceptical , as he terms it , for but implying , that no man ought to be forc't or compell'd in the worship and service of god , to do ought against his light or judgement ; since nothing is more certain , then that no man ought to do or practice any thing therein , which is not of faith ; and why may not such a force then be term'd a spiritual rape upon the concience ? and how hath this been answered , as he says , in the seventh query , where he hath neither prov'd , that any ought to be so for●'t against their judgements ; nor yet that any actually were ever so forc't by any of the kings of judah he instances in : he may do well therefore , as he promises , to consider it a little more , and better to , or 't will be to little purpose . but what means he in saying . it makes conscience the only rule of mens faith and practices ? for though conscience ( which is the judgement a man makes of himself and his actions , with reference to the future judgement of god ) be the rule by which all men ought to walk ; yet is it a rule that must be rul'd ; and 't is therefore every mans duty , carefully to indeavour his conscience be rightly inform'd ; but to follow it is still his duty . the plea of an erronious conscience , saith the reverend and learned dr. stilling fleet takes not off the obligation of following the dictates of it ; for as he is bound to lay it down , supposing it to be erronious , so he is bound not to go against it , whilst it is not laid down . and says the like learned and reverend dr. ames , conscientia quamvis errans , semper ligat ; ita ut ille peccet , qui agit contra conscientiam , quoniam agit contra voluntatem dei , quamvis non materialiter & vere , tamen formaliter & interpretive : for he who does not what he judges , or believes , god commands or requires of him , would not do it , though god did cammand or require it . but says this ingenious and candid answerer , the main argument with which the libertines of all ages have shelter'd themselves against the reach of wholsome and good laws , has been conscience , and the internal liberty of that faculty ; which say they , is only and immediatly subject unto god : it is so ; and yet it neither doth , nor ought to , shelter any guilty of sin and wickedness against the reach as he pretends of wholsom and good laws ; for he who sins , ought to suffer for it , whether it be with , or against his conscience . but says he , a spirit may be as soon pierced with a sword , as violence offer'd to the conscience ; or the mind constrain'd to understand , to fear , love , hate , &c. which are elicite acts of the soul , and cannot be forc't or violated , by all the compulsive powers in the world . does he then conceive conscience to be concern'd only in thinking ? or in the acts of the mind ? conscience , certainly , is concern'd in all a mans actions ; which none sure who knows what conscience is , ever yet doubted : he has therefore cause to say , as he doth , all this signifies very little in the present debate ; not because as he says , , no authority ever offer'd violence to the internal acts of mens minds ; but for that conscience is concern'd in the external actions of a mans life . conscience is concern'd in the performance , or non-performance of every duty god commands ; and conscience is violated , when any through dread and fear , are awed or deterr'd from the performance of those duties they judge god requires of them ; or provok't or urg'd to do , what they are no less perswaded he dislikes , or prohibits them . but how impertinently are we here told , when mens opinions are recluded and lock't within their own breasts , the magistrate never concerns himself about them ; for how should the magistrate concern himself about that he neither knows , nor can have any cognizance of ? and how ignorantly , if not deceitfully , does he here urge that saying of st. paul , hast thou faith , have it to thy self ; as if the apostle thereby intended that men should keep their faith and opinions to themselves ; when he spoke to quite another purpose : for , speaking of meates which some forbore as judging them unlawfull ; he advises those who were otherwise perswaded , to forbear their christian liberty , when it offended those were not yet convinc'd of the lawfulness of eating thereof : that is , having attained a sure knowledge of the lawfulness of those things , whereof others doubted , they might use their liberty therein , when it gave no offence to their brethren ; so keeping their faith to themselves , and not using it to the offence or scandal of others , as is evident to whoever reads and considers the context . but none sure , ever affirm'd , the magistrate was to consult mens private consciences , and not the honour of god , the safety of his own person and government , and his peoples benefit and good . that it may be a greater sin for a man to act according to the dictates of his conscience , then to act against them , as he says , is an assertion i have not before met with : for whatever sin a man commits acting according , to the dictates of his conscience , is at most but a sin of ignorance , which excuses à tanto , though not à toto , whereas he that acts against the dictates of his conscience , is guilty of willful and presumptuous sinning , which admits of no excuse ; yea , is the highest aggravation of sin that can be , and yet has he the confidence to say , this so notoriously false assertion , is evident , not only from the experience of all ages ; but from the holy scriptures : which says he , speak of a seared conscience ; of men whose consciences are defiled , of a reprobate mind , &c. but there being men of reprobate minds , and of seared and defiled consciences ; does not prove , that it may be a greater sin for a man to act according to the dictates of conscience , then to act against them . men of seared consciences , may be said rather to make no conscience of what they do ; then to act either with , or against their consciences : for a seared conscience , is a dead or stupid conscience ; a conscience without sense or feeling : the like may be said of such as are of a reprobate mind ; and whose consciences are defiled ; nor can there be any greater defilement of conscience then to act against it . but what is our blessed saviours prediction of the times comming , wherein some should think they did god service in killing christians . to this query : is it that men of such preverted apprehensions , were to be compelled to worship god otherwise then they are perswaded god will be worshipped , or how does he apply it ? there are none sure who doubt , but that the jewish sanhedrim would gladly have slain peter and john , for preaching christ ; as , no doubt , would others , who at this day are no less grieved at the preaching of the gospel , slay their successors in the ministry of the word , did not the good hand and providence of god restrain them , but what is all this to the present question . or what is paul's pleading conscience for persecuting christs disciples , and making havock of the church ? these , indeed , prove that there have been , and will be , men of erronious consciences : and none sure , ever doubted or questioned , but that the magistrate may punish men acting according to their consciences , if what they so do be evil ; pretence of conscience no ways justifying an evil action before men , how far soever an erronious conscience may excuse it before god. but what is all this to forcing any to act against their consciences ? and how impertinently is it here askt , whether it had been to commit a rape upon st. paul ' s conscience to have punisht him for persecuting christs disciples ? as if to punish an evil action voluntarily committed ; and to force and compel any to what is evil , were the same thing . yet , he says , he knows very well , that it will be here said , ( though he knows not well what himself says ) that a magistrate may punish for murther and violating the laws of the second table : but the answer to this , he says , is easie ; if he should say , that just so our magistrates do when they execute any of the penal laws statutes upon dissenters : this , indeed ; is easier said , then understood ; for what means he by his , just so ? what laws of the d . table are dissenters , as such guilty of the violation off ? or what law of god , or nature , do they therein transgress ? i will not say , i know it will be here said , but suppose it may be said , they disobey the commands of lawfull authority , and therefore ought to be punisht : ought then all commands of lawfull authority to be actually obeyed ? i know not what this answerer may say ; but am very confident none who understand themselves will say so : but they may perhaps say , all the lawfull commands of lawfull authority , ought to be obeyed : they ought so , yet this exception lies against the general rule , that if the person whose obedience is required , judgeth them unlawfull , though in themselves they may be lawfull , he may not actively obey them . but he proceeds , and tells us , it is a very strange thing for any to believe , that the magistrate is invested with a power to punish men for words and actions tending to the damage of private persons , &c. but let them speak never so many lyes in the name of god ; and preach and teach them in hypocrasie ; let them blaspheme god , and christ , and religion ; then authority has its hands tyed up ; no coercive power must be used against any such criminals ; for all those acts flow from conscience : it were indeed , a very strange thing if it should be so : but who tells him that no coercieve power must be used against those criminals whose actions flow from conscience ? or who questions the magistrates authority to punish such as blaspheme god , or christ , or religion ; or that they who speak lyes in the name of god ; and preach and teach them in hypocrasie , may not be punisht for it ; when prov'd against them ? but we still say , that to execute before conviction and judgement , is against all rules and forms of justice , both divine and humane ; and such a violation of the law and light of nature , as no sober or judicious heathen was ever yet guilty off . but the whole of this discourse is grounded on this absurdity , which the query gives not the least countenance unto ; ( viz. ) that none ought to be punisht for what they do according to their consciences ; which no man , sure , in his senses ever affirm'd ; every man being to be proceeded against by the civil magistrate● , according to the nature and quality of his offence ; be it never so much according to his conscience , if it be that which ought not to be . but he tells us , every christian is to act out of a principle of conscience in the duties of the second table , as well as in those of the first ; which no man sure , ever doubted off . nor did any rational man , ever say , that conscience was a sufficient plea against the coercive power of kings . the magistrate may certainly , enact penal laws against murther , felony , and the like moral evils ; whatever he may do against infidelity , schism , heresie , or errors in religion ; and yet may not force or compel any in the worship and service of god to act against their light and consciences . the question here is not , whether the magistrate may use his coercive power to punish for sin ; but whether he may compel men to sin ; as most certainly they do , who compel them to worship god in any other way or manner , then they are perswaded god will be worship't , and requires of them . query xv. whether to require conformity in practice , where there is difference in judgement , be not to command a man to act against light and conscience , and consequently to sin ? reply to the answer to this query . to the question he proposes , i answer ; the superiour not only may , but ought to take care to act according to the dictates of his conscience , as well as the inferiour to practice according to his : which is yet no answer to this query ; for as it is the magistrates duty to cause , as much as in him lyes , those under his charge to serve god acceptably ; so it is not his duty to command them to serve god in such a way or manner as they judge sinfull , or not according to gods institution and appointment . he ought , indeed , to endeavour their conviction , by all due and just means , whom he judgeth in any kind to err ; but not to force them to any thing , in the worship and service of god , against their judgements ; since , as hath been often inculcated , whatever is not of faith , is sin . but if there be any , who , as he says , conceive it their duty to serve god in such ways and methods , as are diametrically contrary to gods will ; and subversive to the magistrates government ; let them be impleaded , and punisht , after due conviction and judgement , but not before . 't is not impossible but a governour may think himself bound in conscience to command , what an inferiour may be perswaded he ought not to obey . the superiours conscience being as certain a rule in commanding , as the inferiours can be to him in disobeying ; but , with our answerers good leave , this is not , as he says , the case between the king of england ▪ and the present dissenters from the church : his majesty having sufficiently declared in his late gracious declaration of indulgence , that it is not against his conscience to give liberty to dissenters . but how flily would he insinuate here , that it is against his coronation oath so to do ; in that , he says , his majesty swears , that he will defend and preserve to the clergy , all canonicall priviledges , &c. and how this oath can be performed unless the clergy have now , the like priviledge as heretofore , to burn , masacre , and destroy , the faithfull servants and disciples of jesus christ , and true worshippers of god , under pretence of their being hereticks and schismaticks , may possibly , as he says , be past his power to conceive and determine . for nothing less , it seems , will satisfie him , then all the canonicall priviledges and free-franchises granted to the clergy , by the glorious st. edward , and other kings : and what they were , may deserve consideration . but , as he very well says , every prince owes a strict account to god of his crown and government ; and the dignity of his place obliges him to promote the happiness of his people ; which , certainly , he does not , who permits a generation of men under the pretext of the power of the gospel , to trample by the power of the world , mankind under their feet ; even princes themselves , where they are able ; which if seemly in their eyes , is not so , i hope , in others . whether differnce in judgement , will justifie any man from inconformity in practice ? he advises his reader to consider the strict account christ called the angel of the church in thyatira to , for suffering that woman jezabel , to teach and seduce his servants ; and would be resolved , whether the bishop or angel might not have excused his own neglects , by pleading for jezabel ; that her judgement differ'd from his ; and to make her practice things quite contrary to her judgement ; was that christ never did in the days of his flesh : it was an invasion of the freedom of mens wills , and the liberty of their consciences ; it was a constraining of them to act against their own light , and consequently to sin . risum tenaatis amici ? can any forbear laughter at such ridiculous reasonings ? is not this answerer able to distinguish , between commanding to sin ; and restraining from sin ? had the angel of the church in thyatira been call'd to an account for jezabels non-conformity , such a plea might have been pertinent ; but his crime was not the making her practice things contrary to her judgement ; which yet to have done might have been a crime ; but the suffering her to teach and seduce without controle ; without contending for the truth , and opposing it to her errors ; which would not have been a constraining her to act against her light , but the enlighting her ; sound doctrine diligently and duly taught , being sufficient against seducers . we had not else heard of many truths of the gospel at this day ; there being neither in the days of jezabel , nor long after , any christian magistrate in the world , to protect or defend them . what the reverend mr. perkings says of restraining error , is nothing to this query , which opposes only the compelling to sin ; yet we would , as much as any that error were restrain'd by such ways and means as truth might not suffer in the stead of it . and if this reverend person judg'd the commonwealth in his days , did well in making laws to restrain those who depart from our church ; he did not , i presume , think it did so some years before , when it made laws to restrain those who departed from the then church ; so preferring the relation before the rule ; making the right and equity of the law , to depend on his judgement or opinion of truth and error in religion . and if it were his judgement , as we are told , that people ought to be compell'd to the publick assemblies ( though unsatisfied of the lawfulness of the service there used ) it was an erronious judgement , and of very evil consequence ; for by the same rule ought all to be so compelled by those who have power on their side , and believe they have truth also : and what advantage ( not to speak of the unreasonableness and unjustifiablenes of the thing it self ) can any protestant think truth and true religion will get thereby ? it were therefore rather to be wished , that all men would observe that no less divine then moral precept ; of doing unto others , as they would be done unto . the query here is not concerning governours requiring conformity to those things , which the judgements of inferiours dislike or disapprove of , as unmeet or inconvenient ; but to those things ( and in the worship of god only ) as inferiours judge sinfull . the constraining therefore any against their wills and interests , to do what they deny not to be honest and just , reacheth not the present question . though nothing can , as he says , excuse subjects from yielding obedience to lawful authority ; but the unlawfulness of what that authority doth injoyn ; yet when any one is perswaded the thing commanded is unlawful , though in it self lawful , he may not yield obedience to it ; an innocent or invincibly erring conscience , as the reverend and learned bishop taylor truly tells us , being to be obeyed against the known commandment of our superiours . but a man may lawfully engage upon that action , which he judges to be unmeet and inconvenient only , not unlawful ; though he have some inward averseness and reluctancy in his mind against it , and wishes that no such obligation were laid on him . but our answerer does very seasonably recollect himself , in telling us , it will be here said , that the resolution of this case , does not come home to our present dissenters ; for that they judge , the commands of authority about those things which we call indifferent , to be not only inconvenient , but sinfull ; and for that reason they deny conformity in practice . but where this hath been in part answered , as he says , we have not yet observ'd : and wish it may be , ( as he promises ) considered in the following queries . query xvi . whether to punish any for not conforming to such modes and forms of worship , as in their consciences they judge sinfull , be not to punish them for not doing what is acknowledged to be their duty not to do ? reply to the answer to this query . that 't is all mens duty , as he says , to obey lawfull authority , either actively or passively , none sure doubts ; but what is that to this query ? to say that active obedience is not required by authority to all its commands , is to say authority commands things to be done , which it self judges sinfull and unlawfull , which ought not to be supposed : so that active obedience is by authority requir'd to all its commands , and nothing can excuse any from such obedience ; but the unlawfulness , or supposed unlawfulness , of what is so commanded . but it is neither the duty of a loyal subject , nor humble christian , as he would have it , so to mistrust his own judgement , as to neglect the exercise thereof , in a due examination of the lawfullness , or unlawfullness of whatever is commanded him . but , says this answerer , to make some nearer approaches to the query ( which is but need ) 't is not conscience ( if that thing be condemned as sinfull ) which is not some way or other forbid by god in the sacred scriptures : 't is not indeed a right conscience ; but where a man is perswaded that any thing is forbid by god in sacred scriptures , though it may not be so , 't is conscience in him not to do it , though it be an erronious conscience ; yet such an one , as till convinc'd of its . error , he ought not to go against . and his saying , it may be humour , or fancy , or passion , or diabolical suggestions , or forestalements and prejudices imbibed by ill education and instruction , &c. will never prevail with prudent and pious men , to abandon conscience , or in ought to act against it : nor yet to renounce the exercise of their judgements in yielding blind obedience unto any ; which were , indeed , not to chuse their religion , or act as men ; but like bruits rather , bear whatever shall be imposed on them : so changing their religion , as oft as chance or providence , shall change their masters ; which , indeed , is very far from a rational or manly choice . whether any can plead conscience for not conforming to the establisht worship of the church of england , is no part of this query ; which meddles not with particulars : and yet if no more , as he says , can be said in the case , then that he doubts whether he ought to worship god after such a manner , or no ; it may be sufficient to hinder his comformity , notwithstanding we are told , it ought not to be of that weight , as to keep him from his lawfull superiours lawfull command . for he who doubts of the lawfulness of the worship , may doubt likewise , whether his superiours commanding him so to worship , be a lawfull command ; or whether his superiour have authority to command him so to worship ; for where superiours have no right to command ▪ there lyes no obligation of conscience on inferiours to obey ; and then such a command can be no sufficient ground to supersede his doubting ; especially when he is perswaded he hath a plain prohibition of scripture against what he is commanded . neither , as is said , is it duty , or any part of christian meekness , where the doubt is concerning the superiours authority , for any therein to take his resolution , from those claiming that authority . and though it be the sin of dogmatizing , to affirm any thing unlawfull for any to do , which some law of god , still in force , doth not prohibit ; yet while the question is , whether there be not a law of god , now in force , prohibiting the matters in doubt , and which is that which occasions the doubt ? it can be no such sin : so that 't is not impossible , but both that and the disobedience here talkt of , may still commence vertue , notwithstanding all that hath been here said to the contrary . and yet we deny it not to be every mans duty , in doubtfull matters , to seek satisfaction from those whom god hath appointed to instruct and teach them ; but not to yield blind obedience unto any ; or obey them against the dictates of their consciences . and whether this or that particular , commanded by superiours in the worship and service of god ; be agreable with , or contrary to , the law of god , none may judge for another ; every mans reason , ( as the reverend and learned dr. stillingfleet hath truly told us ) proceeding according to the rule of gods word , must therein be his own judge . query xvii . whether it be not the duty of all christians to walk together so far as they have attain'd , and in other things wait the revelation of the mind of god to them that differ ? reply to the answer to this query . our answerer acknowledges , what none can reasonably deny , that every christian is bound to frame and order the course of his life , according to the measures of his knowledge : and he is so in an especial manner , in all the exercises of religion , in which none ought to be forc't , beyond what god hath been pleased to reveal of his mind and will unto them : for where any are not convinc't of the lawfulness of an action to do it , to them 〈◊〉 is sin , though the thing it self , may not be unlawfull . nor is every one who is not of his superiours opinion , to be censur'd by this answerer , as willfull , in retaining error ; or opiniotive in dispising those who have more knowledge then himself : 't is not impossible but superiours may err ; and god approves not of blind obedience , because he will not ( as the reverend and learned bishop davenant tells us ) hold them excused , who with a blind zeal follow their leaders . but who are they , this answerer terms weak christians , and babes in knowledge ? if such as make conscience of their ways and actions ; and out of fear of offending god , dare not conform to what they are not convinc't of the lawfulness of ; they are so far from being weak , they will one day appear to be the wisest christians . let us not therefore judge one another , but judge this rather , that no man put a stumbling block , or an occasion to fall , in his brothers way . and though he tells us , babes in knowledge are not fit to be intrusted with their own conduct and protection , &c. there are those babes to whom god hath revealed those things he hath hid from the wise and prudent . what he says of childrens being cccker'd and upheld in their humours , is extreamly impertinent here ; and nothing to this query . but he tells us , if men would live up to the plain principles of their religion : or walk together so far as they have attain'd ; they could not possibly conceive it their duty totally to forsake their parochial churches ; and think it an arbitrary indifferent matter , whether they professed themselves christians or infidels . what he means by totally to forsake their parochial churches , i know it : there being those , who , though they cannot communicate with every parochial church ; nor yet with any parochial church , in every thing , are yet ready and willing to communicate with them in all christian offices and duties of religion , seperated from those circumstances or adjuncts of worship of humane institution , of whose lawfulness they are not satisfied ; who do not therefore totally forsake them ; much less think it an arbitrary indifferent matter , whether they profess themselves christians or infidels ; though they believe , not all profession of christianity to consist in communicating with parochiall churches . as for his scorners and infidels chair , it might very well have been spared here ; neither this , nor any of these queries , giving the least countenance or incouragement unto such ; or that any should go unpunisht for the neglect or contempt of christianity . an inferiours differing in judgement from his superiour , ought to excite his utmost ●are and diligence to search and find out the truth ; but will not warrant his yielding blind obedience to any of his dictates . be ye 〈◊〉 not the servants of men , is a divine precept , which must take place in the duties of religion , or no where . yet ought not any to condemn a whole church , or withdraw from its communion ; but where there are so great corruptions and defects in it , and those too so plain and evident from scripture , as may justifie both his charge and seperation ; but of them the party seperating must still judge . it is the highest vsurpation , ( saith the reverend and learned dr. stillingfleet ) to rob men of the liberty of their judgements ; that which we plead for against the papists , is , that all men have eyes in their heads , as well as the pope ; that every one hath a judicium privatae discretionis , which is the rule of practice , as to himself ; and though we freely allow a ministerial power , under christ , in the governours af the church , yet that extends not to an obligation upon men , to go against the dictates of their reason and conscience . their power is only directive and declarative , and in matters of duty can bind no more , then reason and evidence brought from scripture by them doth . though in all ages christians of different opinions and perswasions , may have communicated with one another in the offices of religion wherein they agreed , ( which is but what this query calls for ) yet they never communicated with one another , ( at least ought not so to have done ) in those things they judg'd sinfull or superstitious ; nor forced each other thereunto . but the orthodox , the arians , and the novatians might lawfully enough joyn together in prayer , where their errors were not mixt with their prayers , and made a part of their worship . and in that christ and his apostles , as he says , frequented the publick assemblies both in the temple and synagogues ; it is evident ▪ though the worshippers , many of them at least , were guilty of great corruptions and impieties ; yet their worship it self was free from them ; they could not else have communicated with them in their worship , and not have communicated with them in their corruptions and impieties , which were blasphemous to imagine . and though our blessed saviour incouraged all due reverence and ohedience to be paid to publick laws and governours , in commanding the multitude to do whatever the scribes and pharisees , who sate in moses seat , bid them to observe and do ; yet it was to be understood , when according to moses law ; not that they had power to ad ●o , or diminish f●om , what god had appointed ; or were implicity to be obeyed : he having elswhere charged his disciples to take heed ▪ and beware of the leaven , i. e. doctrine of the pharisees and of the sadduces . so that , though all due rererence and obedience be to be paid to publick laws and governours ; yet is not blind obedience to be yielded unto either , being inconsistent with those gospel precepts , which command us to , prove all things : to take heed that no man deceive as ; and , as hath been said , that we be not the servants of men ; for that every ome must give an account of himself to god. when he says , that god hath made sufficient discoveries of his blessed will to us , in his holy word : what us does he mean ? for we cannot but think it all mens duty , ( with the psalmist ) still to pray , that god would open our eyes , that we may behold wondrous things out of his law ; there being an illumination of the spirit of god , necessary for the right understanding of those things that are revealed in the word of god , which is , it seems , a revelation this answerer is yet unacquainted with ; for though the gospel be written , the saving truths thereof are hid to those whom the god of this world hath blinded . this query , therefore , grounded on t●e apostles advice to the philippians , intends only the revelation there mentioned , which we hope , is no enthusiasm . by saying , in doubts relating to religion , men would do better to resign up themselves to the fathers of the church ; and seek satisfaction from the prists lips , then attend to the dictates of their own dark minds . he plainly enough tells what he would be at ; and that 't is blind obedience he would bring us to : but before we thus resign up our selves , both soul and body , unto any , let him tell us ; who , amongst the many pretenders , are those fathers of the church , to whom he would have us thus to resign up ourselves ; our blessed saviour himself having commanded us to beware of false prophets ; and the holy apostle , not to believe every spirit ; but to try the spirits whether they are of god : by which 't is evident , there belongs by divine right , unto all christians , notwithstanding their dark minds , a private , discretive and self-directive judgement , by vertue whereof they not only ought to prove all things recommended to them by their teachers , but even to judge of their teachers themselves ; between the true , and the false ; between the messengers of christ , and the messengers of antichrist ▪ so far is it from the mind of god , that any should pin their faith upon their teachers sleeves ; captivate their judgements unto theirs ; and believe and do whatever they shall think meet . it were , indeed , happy , if men could receive satisfaction from the priests lips , as those which should keep knowledge ; but it may be said to too many of them in our days , as the prophet said to them of old , ye are departed out of the way ; ye have caused many to stumble at the law ; ye have corrupted the covenant nant of levi , saith the lord of hosts : therefore have i also made you contemptible and base before all the people , according as ye have not kept my ways , but have been partial in the law. query xviii . whether in these duties whereon eternity depends , it be not the highest absurdity , to force any against their own light , to be guided by others who are not infallible ? reply to the answer to this query . 't is no very pleasing imployment to have to do with those who either do not ▪ or will not , understand the questions they take upon them to answer : but 't is that we must be content with in this contest . what this ▪ answerer finds in this query inferring a necessity of infallibility in all guides and governours , whether sacred or civil , we are yet to seek ; there being , as we conceive , some difference between being guided in duties of religion , by those that are fallible , which we never thought unreasonable ; and being forced to follow them therein , against a mans own light and knowledge , which is the thing here question'd . it being an implicit faith and blind obedience only , ( and even the worst of these , a mans acting against his own light and conscience ) and only in the concerns of eternity , that this query opposeth . and where hath this been , as he tells us , before answer'd ? or to what purpose doth he here tell us , it is no higher absurdity in these days of the gospel , for men ( in matters of religion ) to be guided by a learned and pious minister ; and much more by all the governours of a national church ; then it was under the mosaick oeconomy , to seek the law at the priests mouth , who was the messenger of the lord of hosts ; since we never denyed either : but say , that blind obedience was never to be yielded unto any ; much less that any ought to be forc't in any religious duties , against their own light . the priests lips , indeed , should keep knowledge ; and they should seek the law at his mouth ; but , as hath been before said , they departed out of the way ; they caused many to stumble at the law , and corrupted the covenant of levi : so that a judgement of discretion was then , as well as now , to be exercised by the people , and they were not always to hearken unto the words of the prophets that prophesied unto them ; their directions and instructions therefore , with this answerers good leave , might sometimes be rejected . and since our blessed saviour hath himself commanded us to beware of false prophets ; and the apostle , not to believe every spirit , but to try the spirits whether they are of god , it is undoubtedly the duty of all christians to examine the authority and mission of their teachers ; and to query who are the true , and who the false ; who the messengers of christ , who of antichrist ; that so they may receive the one , and reject the other , with all their doctrines and instructions ; if , upon trial , they square not with the rule by which they are commanded to prove them . yet does not this render , as he says , the ministry of the christian church , ( much less all offices and dignities of the commonwealth ) void and useless : it only cautions christians not to esteem of them above what is meet ; in yielding that blind obedience the gospel prohibits , and which is unbecoming the nature and being of a rational creature to give : when therefore god commands the people to obey those that have the rule over them ; and to submit to them ; as they that watch for their souls ; it is to be understood so far forth only , as they teach according to the rule of his word ; their authority , as we have before told you , from the reverend dr. stillingfleet , being only directive and declarative ; and in matters of duty can bind no farther then reason and evidence brought from scripture by them doth . but he goes on with his infallibility , and says , the argument holds as much against any judge or magistrate in the civil concerns of humane life , as against the ministry of the church : but he may be therein mistaken ; for 't is all mens interest to acquiesce in the determinations of civil judicatories , in the concerns of humane life , how erronious or unjust soever they may apprehend them to be , for the preservation of a greater good ; publick peace and quiet : but that will never make it reasonable , in the concerns of eternity , which admit of no compensation , for a man to put out his own eyes , to be guided by others ; who perhaps , see no better , it may be not so well as himself . for we do not say , it is absurd for a man to be guided by such as are fallible ; but to be guided by such against their own light and reason : as for a man to follow one who tells him , he will guide him the next way from york to london ; though he leads him still northward , when he knows the way thither to lye southward : but could i believe my guide infallible , i might renounce my own reason , and disbelieve my very senses , to follow him which way soever he lead me ; but till then shall think it absurd in any to force me so to do ; which is but the genuine import of this query . but our answerer tells us , a man may act infallibly in his station , though he be not himself infallible ; for he , he says , does so , who acts and proceeds by infallible unerring rule . yet with his good leave , he may herein be again mistaken ; for , though the rule he acts and proceeds by , be streight ; yet if the agent be not infallible , he may through error or inability draw crooked lines by it ; and so cannot be said to act infallibly : and indeed , if what he here says were true ; instead of our infallible pope , he hath set up thousands of infallible priests , who pretend to act and precede by an infallible unerring rule ; the infallible and unerring word of god. but to proceed , by what logick doth he frame an argument from this query , against punishing an atheist ? does it say , as he would have it , that none ought to be punisht , who are not infallibly convic't ? or any thing to that purpose ? why then doth he entertain his readers with these impertinences ? yet hath truth so far prevailed on him , that he here acknowledges , all doctrines ought to be tryed and examined by their proper measures and standards , &c. but what he means by his mean between this ; and for men to be allowed a liberty to deal with their religion , and the truths of god , as they do with their cloathes , which they put on and off , and change as their fancies prompt them ▪ or as the weather or fashion alters , we are yet to learn. for , whether are the more likely to change their religion , they who use their reason in the choice and continuance thereof ; or they who therein blindly follow the guidance of their teachers ; since the first are as fixt and stedfast therein ; as the nature of man , upon the best and surest foundation , is capable off ; while the latter , whose religion depends on the guidance of his teacher or leader , is liable to change the one , as oft as he happens to change the other . yet we do not say , as this answerer would have us , that a man ought only to be guided by his own light ; but we do say and affirm , that in the concerns of eternity , a man ought not to be forc't , against his own light , to be guided by others , who are not infallible ; and defie him to prove the contrary . the instances of this age , which ( he says , ) are innumerable , of those , who so soon as they seperate from their mother church , know not where to abide and fix , &c. are the objections of an elder mother church , against those who forsake and separate from her : but such as are united unto that church , which is the mother of us all , will not be to seek where to abide and fix , though separated from all the mother churches in the world. they are not the rational and diligent enquirers into the grounds and reasons of their religion ; but the blind followers of their , perhaps , blind guides , that commonly take sanctuary in popery . query xix . whether at the great day of account , it will excuse false worshippers to say , they therein followed the guidance of those , who pretended to have authority to conduct , and govern them in the duties of religion ? and whether , if the blind lead the blind , they will not both fall into the ditch ? reply to the answer to this query . we have not from him the least answer to this query ; which is no more , then whether false worshippers will , at the great day of account , be excus'd in following the guidance of those who pretended to have authority to conduct and govern them in the duties of religion : but instead thereof , are told , with many unhandsom and undue reflections , that by false worshippers are meant , either those who serve god according to the liturgy of the church of england , or some other assemblies of christians : if the former , the gentleman that prop●ses it , is extreamly uncharitable ; if the latter , the query is impertinent : but why uncharitable or impertinent ? is it so improbable or unreasonable to think there should be false worshippers in any of those assemblies of christians who serve god either with , or without the liturgy of the church of england ? if it be not , the gentleman may neither be uncharitable , nor the query impertinent . this answerer therefore , must either have so good an opinion of all dissenters from the church of england , as well as of those who serve god according to her liturgy , as to esteem it impertinent to doubt of the truth of their worship ; or to enquire concerning the future state and condition of such of them as may be therein misled ; or he will approve himself to be the uncharitable person he speaks of ; against all ingenuity and reason , to apply what was indefinitely spoken to the church of england , when it is more applicable unto others . and , i shall be bold to tell him in his own language , it is as great an untruth as ever came from the father of lyes , to say that this , or any of these queries , obtrude that which is false and slanderous upon any ; or that they were chiefly designed for the unwary country-man : who is not the person that imposes upon others in things of divine and supernatural revelation ; or persecutes any on the account of religion . and now , ( though it be still nothing to the present question ) he tells us what false-worship is ; ( viz. ) mens drawing nigh to god with their lips , and putting him far away from their hearts . and how does this query charge this upon the church of england , who is neither said , nor intended in it , to teach any so to do ? and yet there are those of her communion , who teach , preach and print , that mens practices ( even in the duties of religion ) whether conformable or not , to their apprehensions , are the subject of laws : and that where truth and authority draw contrary ways ; we are to follow truth with our soul● , and authority with our bodies . so that with these men , divisum imperium cum jove caesar hab●t . but i would gladly know of them , or of this answerer ; whether , what is not of faith , be not sin ? or whether it be not false-worship in any to worship god otherwise then they are perswaded he will , or ought to be worshipt ? or whether following the guidance of these , or the like ; though they pretend authority to conduct and govern them in the duties of religion ; will , at the last day , excuse those who shall be thus misled by them ? and yet we charge not this on the church of england ; nor have we said , that they who serve god according to her liturgy , were false-worshippers . these are but the uncharitable inferences and surmises , of a strangely ignorant , or immeasurably malitious person ; who wanting strength of reason or argument , to oppose the truths he likes not , thus loads them with reproach and calumny . and to what purpose does he tell us , it being nothing still to this query , that there is no congregated independent congregation in england ; but the respective pastor of it ▪ assumes to himself more power and authority to govern and conduct the sworn members of it , in the ways and duties of religion , then the greatest prelate in our church does in his province or diocess , unless to manifest how difficult it is for him to write one true period , there being amongst them , no such sworn members , as he mentions , and whether of them exercise most power and authority , to conduct and govern their respective members in the ways and duties of religion , let those concern'd determine . but this ; he says , he will not prove from their practices ; the thing being apparent from the very principles of independency , which aim at little else but tvranny and pre eminence : as appears by the independant pastors excluding whom they please from the means of salvation ; and making that a condition of their communion , which is impossible . i hope he does not mean here , that in making the conditions of their communion impossible , they exclude whom they please from the means of salvation ; as if there were no salvation out of their communion ; and yet i know not what else he means by it ; and if that be his meaning , they do not yet exclude any from the means of salvation , in making that a condition of their communion which is impossible ; for if the condition were impossible , the communion which depended on it , would be so too ; but the contrary is very well known ; and so , in good time , will the credit of this reporter likewise be . but as a farther instance of their tyranny and prae●eminence , he tells us , they pry into the very secrets of mens souls , lives and actions , by severe scrutinies and examinations . if they do , it is not by the oath , &c. we have heard much talk of . but they will not , he says , admit of any to be members of their gather'd churches , till they have satisfied the curiosity of their guides . that is , they will perhaps , have no communion with unbelievers ; nor fellowship with the unfruitfull works of darkness ; a great crime , and worthy this answerer's rebuke . but , is it more then probable , as he politickly observes , that this , and not meanness of trade , impoverishes city and country ; or , supposing they who having been made partakers of their spiritual things ; should , according to duty , administer unto them in carnal things ; how should this occasion the nations poverty ? what do they receive which they give not again ? or which of them hath such plenty , as to enable them to hoard up any thing ? no , no ; we are told by a wiser and more pious politician , that a fruitfull land is turned into barrenness , for the wickedness of them that dwell therein . and the holy prophet tells us , the land mourns , and the herbs of every field wither , ( not for peoples meeting together , to pray for a blessing upon themselves , their governours , and the land of their nativity , but ) for the wickedness ( still ) of them that dwell therein : thus we see how persons differ in judgement , according to the diversity of their spirits and passions . but to return to the query , charged in the rear with blind leaders and followers ; he wishes the gentleman would not make such sly and unworthy reflections upon the conformable laity and clergy of this kingdom : and the gentleman wishes likewise this answerer would also forbear applying to particulars , what is indefinitely spoken , and was not by him intended to one party more than another . but 't is a shrew'd sign of some very sore place in the ass that kicks and winches upon every approach , before he is touch't . query xx. whether it be not most unreasonable in the concerns of eternity , to tie men by temporal penalties to fallible guides , whom to follow , may be their eternal ; to forsake , their temporal ruine ? reply to the answer to this query . he hath nothing , it seems , to say against it , and therefore very advisedly sends his reader , he knows not whither ; for satisfaction in , he knows not what . query xxi . whether the main inlet of all the distractions , persecutions , and divisions in the christian world ; hath not been by adding and requiring other conditions of church-fellowship and communion , than christ , or his apostles did ? reply to the answer to this query . the enquiry here is only into the original of the distractions , persecutions and divisions , which have been in the christian world : i. e. among christians , or such as have made profession of christianity , not of the persecutions raised against them by heathens and infidels . the ten persecutions therefore against the primitive christians , and the inroads of the goths and vandals into italy , come not within this enquiry . but says this answerer , if it be understood in this sense , there are very great mistakes in it ; for that severe proceedings of christian emperours against hereticks ; and of hereticks against the orthodox christians ; were not for innovations brought into the church , as conditions of christian communion , but for the truths of christ , &c. that 's the query , and wherein ●y the great mistakes in asking it ? but he may be pardon'd this , for so ingeniously professing himself ignorant of any distractions , persecutions , and divisions , that were ever raised in the christian world , upon the account of adding and requiring new or unheard of conditions of church . fellowship ; unless it were the difference between the western and eastern churches ; about the observation of easter : so that , it seems , he is ignorant of the persecutions and divisions that were amongst christians , in the reigns of constantine , constantius , and some following emperours , upon the imposition of differing , if not contradictory creeds : for it was not the doctrine of the trinity , three persons and one god ; as exprest in scripture , that caus'd the breach of communion and church-fellowship , between the arians and the orthodox christians ; but the orthodox forcing the arians to subscribe to their newly invented homoousian ; as did afterwards the arians , where they prevailed , requiring the orthodox to subscribe to their homoiousian : whereas ( as a learned prelate hath well observ'd ) had both parties acquiesced in the very scripture expressions , without their own additions , they might have lived peacably and quietly together ; and the arian heresie , probably , have soon expired . error , divested of secular force and support , not being long able to withstand the ●ower of truth . he is , it seems , likewise ignorant of the great divisions which after arose in the church about the procession of the holy ghost ; whereas ( as the said learned person likewise observes ) had they acquiesced also , in what the scripture plainly declares , ( viz. ) that the holy ghost proceeds from the father ; and that he is sent by the father , and also by the son ; but whether he proceeds from the son , or by the son , the scripture being silent , they ought to have been so too as to that question , and 〈◊〉 they had avoyded the unhappy breach which ensued thereon . but is it possible this answerer should be ignorant of the sad persecutions and divisions , which have been amongst christians , upon the account of rites and ceremonies , imposed as conditions of church-fellowship and communion , which neither christ , nor his apostles ever required . for ; not to instance in those between austin and the monks of bangor , with others we read of in ancient story ; what thinks he of the unhappy breaches and divisions which have been thereby occasion'd , even in this church ever since the reformation : he that is ignorant thereof , must be something more then i am here willing to express . but he tells us the difference between the eastern and western churches , about the observation of easter , can by no means be applyed to the present case of the church of england , and those that separate from its communion . nor have i heard of any that ever so apply'd it ; and yet for any thing he says to the contrary , it may be applicable enough : for his presuming does not prove , that every national church , hath a more indispencible power over its own members , ( if , as we have reason to believe , he takes every one for such , who is born or inhabits within that nat●on , ) than either the western church had over the eastern , or the eastern over the western . and secondly , there is no such wide difference as he alledgeth between the conditions of communion required in the church of england ; and those that were between the eastern and western churches about the celebration of easter : for if , as he tells us , the one was about a trivial inconsiderable business ; the other being about indifferent things only , cannot certainly be thought very considerable . but , says he , every church hath a power to guide and govern its own members in all indifferent things pertaining to its communion ; which if true , yet is not every member bound to believe all things to be indifferent , which their ecclesiastical guides or governours shall call so ; and if they require other conditions of communion , than their members shall approve of , or judge lawfull ; 't will , undoubtedly , cause differences and divisions amongst them . what rites the church of england tenders as conditions of church-fellowship to those within her pale , we meddle not with ; our query being only , whether the requiring other conditions of church-fellowship and communion then christ or his apostles did , have not been the main inlet of all the distractions , persecutions and divisions in the christian world ; which but for asking we are judg'd criminal ; though the reverend and learned dr. stilling fleet sticks not to affirm , that the main inlet of all the distractions , confusions and divisions of the christian world , have been by adding other conditions of church communion , then christ hath done . and hath this answerer the confidence , or impudence rather , to suppose this reverend dr. herein chargeth the church of england , with all the distractions and divisions that now abound in this nation ? or that he causelessly and falsely accuseth a whole church and kingdom , as the fountain of all the distractions and divisions that abound in it ? or will he not himself be found to be the false accuser he speaks of ? the church of england being no more concern'd in this assertion or query , then the church of scotland , or the church at geneva , or any other church whatever ; unless this answerer will say , she requires other conditions of church-fellowship and communion , than christ or his apostles did ; which neither the doctor , nor the gentleman have yet said , but to conclude , he tells us , st. james acquaints us with another cause of wars and persecutions then the imposition of a few rites and ceremonies in matters of religion ; which are from mens lusts , which war in their members : but may not the imposition of those rites and ceremonies , proceed from those lusts , they first rebelling against the law of their minds , and then against the law of their maker ? and whether argues the greater pride , the imposing upon mens judgements , or the leaving unto every man that judgement of discretion god hath given him , and requires the exercise of in all the duties of religion ; and will not , as the reverend and pious bishop davenant hath told us , hold those excused , who with a blind zeal follow their leaders . the removing old land-marks , with innocent and usefull constitutions ; is but the old objection of the papists against the reformers ; and of them borrowed by this answerer , to help to fill up his pamphlet . and though he cannot , as he tells us , forbear mentioning one passage more , it 〈◊〉 seems to be but to usher in his following rime ; as a grave and gracious author has it . one verse for sense , and one for rime , is sufficient for one time . yet are we more beholding to him for this , than for most of his preceding answers , which have neither rime , nor reason , in them . query xxii . whether jesus christ , who came to take away the yoke , and burthen of jewish ceremonies , appointed by god himself ; hath given power and authority unto any , to institute in their room , such others as they shall think good ? reply to the answer to this query . nothing is more evident in holy writ , than that god will be worship't , but in the way , and by the means of his own appointment ; and that no service is acceptable unto him ; but what is performed in obedience unto his commands : it may not therefore be unreasonable or unseasonable to ask , whether jesus christ hath given power or authority unto any , to institute in the worship and service of god , such rites and ceremonies as they shall think good . and to this , our answerer tells us , the words cited by him from mr. hooker , would be a sufficient answer ; which we deny not , according to his way and method of answering queries ; otherwise they are far enough from it ; for , though many things which god hath ordained , have been changed , and that for the better ; they have been still changed by himself only , or by jesus christ , whom he hath sent . and if seven churches , as he saith , have declar'd , that ceremonies of humane institution are lawfull in the worship of god ; it does not follow , that christ hath given power , as he affirms , to some persons to institute in the room of the jewish ceremonies , such others as they shall think good . and as little to the present question , is any thing in the words of the ingenious gentleman he commends to his reader . to all which i shall oppose as more pertinent to the matter in question , the words of the but now mentioned reverend and learned dr. stillingfleet , who , speaking of the meekness , sweetness , and gentleness of our blessed saviour , tells us , his design was to ease men of their former burdens , and not to lay on more . that the duties he required , were no other , but such as were necessary , and withall , just and reasonable ; that he that came to take away the insupportable yoke of jewish ceremonies , certainly did never intend to gall the necks of his disciples with another instead of it ; ( and if so , did not certainly , give power or authority unto any to institute in their room such others as they should think good ) it would be strange , says he , the church should require more then christ himself did ; and make other conditions of her communion , then our saviour did of discipleship . then asks , what ground there can be , why christians should not stand upon the same terms now , which they did in the times of christ and his apostles ? whether religion were not sufficiently guarded and fenced in them ? whether there was ever more true and cordial reverence in the worship of god ? what charter christ hath given his church to bind men up to more then himself hath done ? and then tells us , the grand commission the apostles were sent out with , was only to teach what christ had commanded them ; not the least intimation of any power given them to impose or require any thing beyond what himself had spoken to them ; or they were directed to , by the immediate guidance of the spirit of god. what power or commission , therefore , any have since received to institute such ceremonies in the worship and service of god , as they shall think good , this answerer , or his adherents , may do well to inform us . but instead thereof , he tells us , nothing is more evident in the new-testament , than that christ did intrust those whom he appointed in his absence to be the ministers of his church , with the government of it . he did so ; and yet he did not empower or authorise them to institute in the worship and service of god such ceremonies as they should think good . but says , our politick answerer , this government could not subsist without the enacting of laws for its own , and the churches preservation , for that christ intended , &c. how does that appear ? we find nothing in his gospel of any such intention , nor have we reason to believe he intended any should enact other laws for the government of his church , than what himself enacted ; since 't were to deny the scriptures sufficiency unto that end ; and its being a perfect rule of our faith and obedience , in all gospel duties and administrations ; and , in plain term's to tell us , that christ was not faithfull to him that appointed him , as was moses , in all his house , in that he left not , as did moses , a compleat volume of laws for its rule and government . we wish therefore , this answerer would acquaint us with the instrument , by which the apostles made over their authority of enacting laws , for the government of the church , to their successors ; in that it would tend greatly to their conviction who have hitherto been in an error , and very much deceived , if the lord christ be not the sole lord over , and law-giver to his church ; and that the apostles neither did , nor could delegate a legislative power to their successors ; being themselves ministers only of the gospel of jesus christ ; the power of the keys committed unto them , not being a power of giving laws to the church , but a power of teaching and ruling the church according to the laws which christ himself had given ; and those , as he says , not to that present age of christians , but to all succeeding ages in which his church was to continue in the world ; they being evey way sufficient to continue and preserve upon earth , a visible church untill his second coming . but so far this answerer is in the right , that there could have been no such society , if there had been no law for its vnity ; but he should withall have consider'd , that there neither could , nor can , be any law for its unity , but from an universal law-giver ; the obligation of no law , extending farther then the iu●●●●●tion or authority of the legislator : so that it is altogether impossible for any but the lord christ , to enact laws for the visible unity of christian communion , in the external administration of gods sacred worship ; since the jurisdiction or authority of none other can reach or oblige all christians . that our blessed saviour was greatly concern'd for the unity of his church , none sure , ever doubted . but the words quoted by this answerer from st. johns gospel , relate not so much to the external visible unity of the church , as to the internal mystical union that is between christ and his members . yet he tells us , that which he would principally have the reader observe in them , is , the care that our blessed lord and master took for that great essential of christianity , the vnity of the church ; no doubt he did , both for the internal and external unity thereof , and that not only in his frequent calling on his disciples to unity , and to love one another ; making it a caracteristical note of their relation unto him ; by this shall all men know that ye are my disciples , if ye love one another ; but also in commanding them to teach the observation of all things whatsoever he commanded them ; which would all , who would be accounted his disciples , likewise , observe and do , without setting up their posts ( as the prophet speaks ) by his posts ; unity would not be wanting among christians ; nor yet throughout the christian world , a due uniformity in the external administration of gods sacred worship ; which , variety of rites and ceremonies in particular churches , destroys . and it may be truly enough said by him , that it is impossible for the gospel to be propagated and upheld by faith and charity only ; as they are lodg'd in mens hearts , unless the fruits of these graces were exerted in some things that were visible and obvious to sense ; and therefore outward worship is required , that the inward may be exercised and expressed ; for to talk of inward worship without any outward expressions thereof , is but a cloak for atheism . but for this answerer to tell us , that the churches vnity was the main thing that christ took care of , before his crucifixion ; that it is the great essential of christianity , the very being of christian religion depending on it ; and that the main principle of all christian amity and affection , is the visible vnity of christian communion , in the external administration of gods sacred worship , which ought to be vniform and undevided ; and then conclude , that variety of rites in one national church , would cause division of judgement , and of affection ; is such an explanation of the unity of the church , and visible unity of christian communion , in the external administration of gods sacred worship , as , i think , the world was never before blest with ; for , was it the unity of a national church only that christ took such care of , and which is the great essential of christianity ? or is it the visible unity of christian communion , in the external administration of gods sacred worship in a national church only , that is the main principle of all christian amity and affection ? certainly , if variety of rites in a national church cause divisions of judgement , and of affection ; variety of rites in the universal or catholick church , will cause the same also : so that it is a visible unity of christian communion , in the external administration of gods sacred worship , throughout the universal or catholick church , that is the main principle of all christian amity and affection ; experience telling us , what sad divisions , feuds and animosities , have , and do daily arise among christians , from the variety of rites , in the external administration of gods worship , enjoyned by particular churches of several denominations ; even to the destruction of that external , as well as internal unity , which is the great essential of christianity ; and which christ so earnestly recommended to his church . so that if the internal unity of the church , as well as external unity of christian communion , in the publick administration of gods sacred worship , be desirable , as most certainly they are , and ought to be : they are no otherwise to be attained , then by all christian churches universally adhering to the rule of the gospel ; and enjoyning no other rites or ceremonies , in the external administration of the worship of god ; and requiring no other conditions of church-fellowship , and communion , then that enjoyns and requires . nor hath our answerer more reason to say , that many assemblies of christians , independent one 〈◊〉 of another , though living under the same civil government , do weaken , and will at last destroy christianity ; than others ▪ that national and provincial churches , rejecting at the popes supremacy , destroy the unity of the church , and endanger the very being of christian religion . nor yet , that from such small beginnings and independent communions , there would have been no more possibility to have spread and propagated christianity in the world , than an army divided and scatter'd into parties , could be able encounter with another that was vnited , and observ'd all the orders of the chief commander ; since , as the apostle tells us , god hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the mighty ; and experience hath told us , that from such small beginnings and independent communions , christianity hath been spread and propagated over the world , but if , as he intimates , an army divided and scatter'd into parties , is not able to encounter another that is vnited , and observes all the orders of the chief commander . how will those national and provincial reformed churches , which are but divided and scatter'd parties of the christian army , and independent one 〈◊〉 of another be able to encounter the papacy , which is united and observes all the orders of their chief commander ? so strangely does prejudice and partiality blind men , as that they see not how they argue against themselves , unless they are of that army , whose principles and practices they embrace and follow , while they would be thought to skirmish with it . this answerer may therefore know , if he pleases , that though the church be compared to an army , it is not in being like officer'd , as having a leiutenant , or vicar-general , major-generals , colonels , &c. or such like subordination of officers , depending upon , or centering in one ; and yet th● is not without her officers ; who , ( though at the head but of single companies ) observing all the orders of their chief commander ; are , and have been , able to encounter the united power of men and devils making war against the lamb and his followers . but our answerer , having explain'd ; as he tells us , one of the main vitals of christianity ; ( viz. ) the vnity of the church ; advises his reader farther to consider , that in the days of christs abiding upon earth , there could not possibly be any law for the preservation of its vnity , for the reason he mentions ; and therefore jesus christ gave power and authority to his apostles and their successors , to institute such ceremonies and rituals in religion , as they in their own prudence should judge most agreable to the manners and customs of the nations they should convert ; and which tended to promote true piety and goodness in their hearts and lives . but for this the reader is desired likewise to consider , we have but his bare word ; he not offering the least proof of any such power committed by jesus christ , to his apostles , and their successors ; the commission he gave unto his apostles , being but to teach the observation of such things as he had commanded them ; so far was he from leaving it to them ( and much less to the prudence of their successors ) to institute and appoint such rituals in religion , as they should think good . these things therefore , are fondly and groundlessly asserted ; and no less inconsistent with what himself but now said , than repugnant to the gospel . for , if those rites which were agreeable to one sort of people , would not be so unto others ; and the governours of the church were to appoint , as he says , such rituals in religion , as in their prudence they should judge most agreeable to the manners and customs of those nations they should convert ; what becomes of his main principle of all christian amity and affection , the visible vnity of communion in the external administration of gods sacred worship ; which he but now told us , ought to be uniform and undevided ? 〈◊〉 it is so far from being impossible that in the days of christs abode upon earth , there should be , as he says ; any law made for the preservation of the churches vnity ; that it is altogether impossible , as hath been demonstrated , that any but jesus christ , or less then an omnipotent power , should be able to enact any such law. neither hath our lord christ , instituted any rite or ceremony in religion , but what will very well suit with the manners and customs of all nations . he would never else have commanded his disciples , to teach all nations to observe all things whatsoever he commanded them . yet so fond is our answerer of his fancies , as to repeat them , in telling us , that when christ made void the law of ceremonies in the jewish church , he intended ( though he gives us no evidence of such his intention ) to inspire the minds of his apostles and their successors , with so much soundness , and integrity of wisdom and understanding ; that they should be able by their own reasons , to enact such laws and orders as should preserve the external vnity of the church , and render religion so amiable , as that it should not be quite naked and destitute of all external ornament and beauty . in which he expresses but his own vain and carnal thoughts of religion ; christian religion being certainly , most amiable , when most suitable to the simplicity of the gospel ; the beauty of whose worship , consists not in external rites and ceremonies , in which , even where they most exceed , it comes far short of the ceremonies and ordinances under the law ; and yet the apostle prefers the gospel worship , far above that for glory , beauty , and comliness ; which shews that these things have no respect unto outward rites and ceremonies . and though he tells us , it is not in the least repugnant to the wisdom of christ towards his church , to invest the governours of it , with authority to institute new ceremonies in his worship , &c. yet the contrary is evident , in that it speaks him either wanting towards it , in not appointing things necessary ; or not so wise as others , to find out such things as conduce to its edification and beauty . and in commissioning his disciples to teach only the observation of such things as he commanded them ; rejecting the honour given unto him , by those whose worship of him , is taught them by the precepts of men ; he sufficiently declares , that no other rites or ceremonies but what are divine of institution , are to be enjoyn'd , or made necessary to be observ'd by any , in the worship and service of god. if by positive laws made for the external regiment of the church , the bishop cited by him , means laws only for the ordering and disposing of things without the church , though about it ; we have nothing more to say against it , than that it is not the present question . nor do we argue from christ's abrogating those ceremonies that god himself had appointed ; that no others ought to be introduced into the church . we only ask , whether jesus christ , who came to take away the yoke of jewish ceremonies appointed by god himself , hath given power and authority unto any , to institute in their room such others as they shall think good . and are perswaded he hath not ; not because he abrogated those , which were appointed by god himself ; but because no worship is acccptable unto god , but what is of faith ; for without faith , it is impossible to please god ; and faith in all things respects the commands and authority of god : so that the governours of the church can have no authority to institute or appoint any thing in the worship and service of god , either as to matter , or manner , ( beyond the orderly observance of such circumstances , as necessarily attend such ordinances , as christ himself hath instituted ) but by express command or commission from god. let this answerer therefore shew their authority to institute new ceremonies in his worship ; and he may be better thought of then otherwise , i presume , he will be ; by those who fear god , and desire to keep his commandments . nor does it in the least reflect upon the wisdom and goodness of god , as he says , to give unto civil powers , commissions to make such laws as they please , for securing the peace and civil rights of their people ; and none unto the guides of the church , to make laws for the preservation of religion , &c. but is rather an argument of his great love and care of his church , not to leave her to the ordering and disposing of men , which unavoidably ( as wofull experience manifests ) must fill her with schisms and divisions ; but to have himself given her a standing rule or law , whereby she ought to be universally go●vern'd ; and which is every way sufficient , would her guides and governours faithfully and diligently attend unto it , for the preservation of religion against the deluges of heresies and schisms ; and to secure christians in the paths , of piety and order ; of vnity and peace ; which as hath been shewn , it is altogether impossible for any other law , or lawgivers ever to effect . nor was it from the dulness and indocibleness of the jews , as our answerer would have it ; that god gave them rules for their behaviour in the civil concerns of their lives , and the smallest instances of his worship ; but for that he had chosen them , above all the nations of the earth , to be a peculiar people unto himself ; in whom he would be glorified : therefore establisht he a testimony in jacob , and appointed a law in israel . and that he gave them rules in the smalest instances of his worship , was that he would be worshipt in the way , and by the means only , of his own appointment . but the appearing of christ , saith this answerer , hath abolisht the darkness of mens minds , &c. though but now , to serve another turn , he told us , mens minds were dark ; and they were therefore blindly to resign up themselves , to they knew not whom ; such is his dexterity in blowing hot and cold with the same breath ; and men are sometimes to be men , and sometimes bruits , as he hath occasion to serve himself of them . yet is life and immortality brought to light through the gospel , and gods image in a great measure repair'd ●nd restor'd in the soul of man. but of what man ? not of the carnal or unregenerate , but of him that is born again : they are the saints only and faithfull brethren in christ , who are deliver'd from the power of darkness ; the god of this world still blinding the eyes of those that believe not . and they are the regenerate only who are endeud with the spirit of power and wisdom , of knowledge and a sound mind . but we do not yet find , that even they are empower'd to make laws for ceremonies and rituals in religion ; or that such ceremonial laws , as by some have been made , have much conduced to common benefit ; or conspir'd to the glory of god and mutual good of christians : but on the contrary have introduc'd a theatrical , pompous , carnal , worship among the generality of christians ; instead of that spiritual worship which god requires ; and without which , no other worship will ever be acceptable unto him , and he that will look back , as our answerer advises , to the first ages of the church , wherein the offices of christian religion , were adorn'd with that comly simplicity , modest magnificence , and awfull reverence , &c. he speaks of ; will not find any other laws , for rites and ceremonies in religion , than the law of the gospel , or canon of the holy scriptures . but our answerer comes now to his argument , à fortiori , and tells us , that if it were in the power of the primitive guides of the church ; to enjoyn christians the abrogated ceremonies of the jewish law , for the propogation of the christian faith ; much more must it be in the power of their successors , to institute others , and so many in their stead , as may conduce to so high and generous an end : but the abolisht ceremonies of moses were observ'd by christians ; and that by ●he express warrant and command of the apostles , 〈◊〉 in their abstaining from blood , from things ●rangled , and from things offer'd to idols . but 〈◊〉 he not herein mistaken , for these were not ●ommanded as ceremonies ; but prohibited as ●candals , to the new converted jews . nor do we find any warrant or command , either express or implicit , of the apostles , for the observation of easter : or that they ever enjoyn'd or commanded circumcision ; but we find them declaring they commanded it not : and st. paul tells the galatians , if they be circumcised , christ shall profit them nothing . so far were the apostles from commanding the observation of the abrogated ceremonies of the jewish law : which is indeed , a contradiction interminis ; for if they had aposto●ical warrant and command , they were not abrogated ; but we must bear with small slips , if we will not create to our selves endless trouble . but , 't is at length acknowledg'd , that gods will is to be the rule of his worship ; and our answerer hopes to salve all , in saying , that it were the most sacrilegious invasion of gods prerogative to make humane inventions the essentials of his worship . but for rites and ceremonies , the governours of the church may , it seems , institute such , and so many , as they shall think good . and if so ; let him tell us why the church of rome hath not the same authority , as other churches , to institute such ceremonies , as she also shall think good ? and how comes he to censure hers , as vain and foolish , ridiculous and superstitious ; while she exercises but the authority he allows her , instituting no other ceremonies , then she judges conducive to so high and generous an end , as the propogation of the christian faith ; and which render religion amiable , by its external ornaments and beauty . but what may this answerer mean by the essentialls of worship ? a dear friend of his tells us , the essence of religious worship consists in nothing else , but a gratefull sense and temper of mind towards the divine goodness : and as for all that concerns external worship , 't is no part of religion it self ; and if this be his judgement also ; he may tell us , 't is the most sacrilegious invasion of gods prerogative to make humane inventions the essentials of his worship ; and yet retain a liberty of introducing all the vain and foolish , ridiculous superstitious ceremonies now in use in the roman church , when ever he shall change his thoughts of them ; and judge them to render religion amiable and beautifull . but certainly , nothing is more evident in scripture , than that the due observance of the outward institutions in religion , come under the notion of the worship of god : so did the sacrifices of old , and so do the present sacraments of the church ; which were , and are , parts of outward worship ; and i suppose of religion too : and whatever is made so necessary to be observ'd in the worship of god , that without it , the worship is not to be perform'd , is thereby made an essential of worship ; for that which is so the matter of a thing , that without it the thing cannot be , is of the essence of that thing . but he tells , us , all ▪ that is pleaded , is but that the church of england , may be allowed the same priviledge , which all sects and parties assume to themselves , ( viz. ) to determine the circumstances of religion ; which is so reasonable , that it cannot either in reason or justice be denyed . then he tells us , there is no sect , but the authority of their teachers prevails in those instances and rites , where there is no word of god to warrant the things that are practis'd by them ; instancing in the worship perform'd , as he says ▪ by independents ; asking what scripture they have to prove their covenant which the members of their churches swear to ▪ before they are admitted by their pastors and elders . though he finds no mention of any such covenant sworn to , in the declaration of the faith and order owned and practis'd in their churches ; wherein as well their order as common faith is declar'd ▪ neither of which do they , or did they ever , that i have heard of , impose upon any ; and yet are able , i presume , to give an answer unto every man that asketh them a reason of the hope that is in them : to them therefore i shall refer him for farther satisfaction , in the particulars he mentions , if he desires it . and for the present shall only tell him , there is some difference between a confession of faith , and imposing articles of faith ; yea , or rites and ceremonies . and will he now say , in verbo sacerdotis , or upon his reputation , that the church of england in appointing of her rites and ceremonies , does no more , then appoint circumstances concerning the worship of god , common to humane actions ; which are to be order'd by the light of nature and christian prudence , according to the general rules of the word ? or why does he thus impose upon his credulous and unwary reader ? but he tells us , if the governours of the church of england did command such and such things , then dissenters had some reason to separate from its communion ; which is but a copy of his countenance ; he elsewhere telling us , that the governours of the church have power to institute such ceremonies as they shall think good ; and that it is the peoples duty to obey ; yea , he advises them to resign up themselves to the fathers of the church , rather than attend to 〈◊〉 the dictates of their own dark minds : which takes away , not only the liberty of separating ; but even of examining the commands of their spiritual guides . and having thus reduced them to an implicit faith , he may be bold to tell them , there were as many , or more ceremonies made use of in the very age of the apostles , and then instituted by them , than are now in the church of england : and instance in half a score , not one of which were ever instituted by the apostles . yet after all his boldness , he speaks but faintly , in saying , if he be mistaken in his conjecture about this matter ; yet 't is no way injurious to the present power of the church of england , in appointing symbolical or significative ceremonies in gods worship : for that the primitive christians under the heathen emperours , were much like the israelites in their egyptian bondage ; rather concern'd to maintain the life and being of religion , then to be curious about the apparel and ornament thereof . and would to god there were no pretended christians in these days , more concern'd about the apparel and ornament ( as they term them ) of religion ; then to maintain the life and being thereof . and how unhandsomly does he reflect here on the primitive christians , in saying , when kings and emperours became christian , then they began to glorifie god with their bodies , and to honour him with their substance and estates , &c. as if till then , they had been unmindful of the apostles precept , of glorifying god in their bodies , and in their spirits : or what thinks he of those who before that , sold their possessions and goods , and parted them to all men , as every man had need ; did not they as much honour god with their substances and estates , as those who adorn temples ? but such gross and carnal thoughts have some , of the most high , who dwelleth not in temples made with hands ; as to think him still delighted and pleased , with mens erecting , dedicating , and adorning of temples ; in which they generally place more of their religion , than in the performance of the most spiritual and christian duties , which god requires of them . query xxiii . whether are they who separate , or they who give the cause of separation , the schismaticks . reply to the answer to this query . we have here a full and satisfactory answer●r , in that it is acknowledg'd , that not they who separate , but they who give just cause of separation , are the schismaticks . but then he tells us , st. paul hath as clearly and fully determin'd this query , as if it had been proposed in his days : though you will find him here , as well as elsewhere to handle the word of god deceitfully . for st. paul in that place speaks only of the duty of servants ; exhorting those who are under the yoke , to count their masters ( though infidels ) worthy of all honour : and not to depise their believing masters ▪ because they are brethren ; but rather do them service , because they are faithful and beloved ; and these things he directs timothy , to teach and exhort ; and then s●bjoyns , if any man , teach otherwise , &c. he is proud , &c. where observe , how instead of master , he foists in superiour , a word of a more extensive signification ; for , though every master be a superiour , every superiour is not a master : and yet we do not say , that obedience may be withdrawn from superiours of any kind ; christianity laying the greatest obligation immaginable upon its professors , to be obedient to their superiours . but as the authority of superiours is not despotical or absolute , so neither ought the obedience of inferiours , to be blind or brutish ; both the one and the other being regulated by a supream power . for where superiours have no right to command , there lyes no obligation on inferiours to obey : so that whether conformists , in commanding , or non-conformists , in not obeying , are the schismaticks ; depends on the formers having right and authority to require ; what the latter judges sinful or unlawful to observe ; which being beyond the present question , we shall not meddle with . but he tells us , if the church of england had forsaken the common faith , it had been no schism to forsake the church of england , and if she did so and so ; then that command in the revelation , come out of her my people , &c. had been applicable to our dissenters . b●t this is still but pretended , being against his principle of blind obedience , and mens resigning up themselves to the fathers of the church ; without leaving them so much as a power to examine what is commanded ; for where that is , there must likewise be allowed a dissent in all things they judge evil or unlawful . and though he tells us , a good christian ought as much to dread the imposing upon his judgement an assent to known errors ; and upon his practice the acting of known sins , as the suffering the very pains of hell it self ; he does , we doubt , but equivocate , alallowing none to be known errors , or known sins ; but such as superiours shall judge so : for if he allow inferiours to judge thereof , and act accordingly ; there is no difference between us . but having told us , what the church of england does not ; he now tells us what many of our dissenters do : and first , he says , they question not only the power of bishop to govern the church ; but that of kings , to make laws for the security of their own crown and government , as well as the common christianity . if such there are , i am sure no sober or rational man will justifie , or excuse them in it . that they make the people judges of their own pastors , &c. that they may have reason for ; how else can they beware of false prophets , and try the spirits ; as they are commanded ; or distinguish between the ministers of christ , and the ministers of antichrist : but no sober man sure will allow any to withdraw their obedience from those who are lawfully ordain'd , and ought to superintend over them . that they forsake their old guides , &c. this is but the old popish objection new vampt ; nor is such forsaking criminal , but where causeless : and who are they that renounce in their assemblies , as he says , the ancient creeds which were in all ages esteemed the badges of christianity ? and wherein lyes the crime of not reading the scriptures to the people , without expounding them ? but sure they make it not indifferent to be of any communion , who are so great sufferers because they cannot be so . and if , as he says , they gather churches , not only without , but against all a●thority , let him not be thereat troubled since every plant which our heavenly father hath not planted , shall be root●d up . which is due , or undue ordination , will hardly be determin'd till we have an affirmative answer to the sixth query . but 't were happy for the church of god , if none who are not gifted and qualified for the work of the ministry ; were empower'd to read sermons in the pulpit ; prophane the sacraments , &c. but who are they that as he says , evacuate one main article of the christian creed ; faith in one catholick church ? besides himself and the papists ? all others , believe their is one catholick church ; but do not believe in one catholick church ; we are taught to believe only in god , not in the church ; but he , it seems , hath resign'd up his faith to the fathers of the church ; believing only as the church believes . no wonder therefore he should talk of a yearly , monthly , and daily faith ; which his principles lead him to , if he chance so oft to change his fathers , or they their faith. who they are that go out of their callings and stations to usurp the office of bishops , as well as of the inferiour clergy , will hardly be determin'd here : yet i shall tell him what a reverend and learned prelate of the church of england once answer'd to the like objection ; so long , said he , as they taught the same doctrine which the apostles did ; they had the same power and authority to preach , which they had : biding them to keep their competent jurisdictions , judicial cognitions , and legal decisions to themselves : for that , as he truly told them , the son of god first founded , and still gathereth his church by the mouths of preachers , not by the summons of consistories ; and he that is sent to preach , may not hold his tongue , and tarry , till my lord the pope , and his miter'd fathers can intend to meet , and list to consent , to the ruine , as they think , of their dignities and liberties . but to return to our answerer , how do they as he says , break the bonds of vnity , and line of apostolical succession , who adhere to the universal and uniform law of the gospel ? or do not they rather break both , who make their own , or other mens wills , the rule of the churches ; and found their ordination , on uncertain tradition . i know of no dissenters , that obtrude oaths and covenants , as he says , on their proselites ; though it be no crime for christians to covenant to serve god , as god wil be serv'd . every man hath a judgement of discretion , which is the rule of practice , as to himself ; and must direct him with whom to joyn , and not to joyn , in the performance of all religious duties ; nor may he therein do ought against his light. but what means he , in saying here , they will submit to no law , nor admit of any discipline , but what is erected and executed by themselves , ( a thing never known for criminals to make choice of their own punishment ; ) for do they not submit to the laws of the land , in all civil things and concerns ? and what law of the gospel submit they not to in the duties of religion ? but to talk here of criminals making choice of their own punishment is very extravagant . and lastly they will , he says , have no publick acts pass among them , without the free consent of all , as satisfied in conscience , that what is decreed , is gods will. and is it for this he elsewhere so boldly avers , there is no congregated independent communion in england , but the respective pastor of it , assumes to himself more power and authority to govern and conduct the sworn members of it , in the ways and duties of religion , then the greatest prelate in our church does in his province or diocess ? or is this one of the principles of independent tyranny ? but some , are said to have need of good memories , and our answerer seems to be of them . yet he would be thought to have reason ▪ for what he here says , telling us , the thing is impossible in nature ; for , if all are satisfied , they are not men , there being among all men difference in judgement . how unreasonable then is it , to require of any such an assent or consent , as must render them either beasts , or not men ? but so it seems , it is and must be ; for he tells us , in the enacting of all laws , the lesser part is determin'd by the greater : which is true in all civil things and concerns which are in a man's choice , and at his own disposal ; and it is for the publick good and benefit , it should be so . but 't is otherwise in matters of duty and obedience unto god ; in which every man ought to be satisfied that what is decreed , is the will of god ; for that none may follow a multitude to do evil ; nor in the neglect or omission of the least known duty . whether the church of e●gland or dissenters are the schismaticks , i shall nowise take upon me to determine ; but leave it , as he doth to the rational reader to judge ; and only take leave to say , that what his eminent prelate says , proves not dissenters to be schismaticks . if there be any , who as he says , account the king and parliament , or clergy of england hereticks and schismaticks , for maintaing the essentials of christianity ; and doing what they can to hinder and diswade men from offering the most insufferable affronts to gods being and majesty ; they ought not certainly to be tolerated , much less countenanced in a christian commonwealth . query xxiv . whether they , who in the exercise of church discipline , never cease calling on the civil magistrate , to assist them with his secular force , do not therein give an evident sign and token , that all true ministerial and spiritual power is dead in them ? reply to the answer to this query . th● question here , is not whether these or those give the greater evidence that all true ministerial and spiritual power is dead in them : but whether such practices in any be not an evident sign and token of it ? and had all orthodox bishops , in all ages of the church , relied upon the spiritual means by 〈◊〉 appointed in the gospel , for the suppressing and ●ooting out of heresies and 〈◊〉 , with●ut applying themselves to the 〈…〉 for his assistance therein ; christian● 〈…〉 ; had not suffer'd , as it afterward● 〈…〉 h●reticks using the same means , for 〈…〉 faith and yet we say not , but 〈…〉 and ought to call upon the 〈…〉 do his duty in the protection 〈…〉 ; by supporting and 〈…〉 in the due exercises thereof 〈…〉 of w●●ked and unreason● 〈…〉 not faith . neither do we 〈…〉 , or extinction of the function of bishops , if they use all due and proper means , to accomplish and bring about lawfull and charitable ends : nor that any end can be more generous and christian , than to secure people in the performance of their duty to god , to man , and to themselves , but we do say , that secular force and compulsion , are not the proper and due means to effect all these . and whatever sense some may have of moral honesty and justice , or of piety and religion ; the civil magistrate ought not , certainly , to permit them to express or declare , their scorn or contempt of either . i will not say , with this answerer , that 't is since men have assumed so great a liberty in religion ( as not well understanding what he thereby means , ) but agree with him , there is less regard had to those externall rules of right and wrong ; vertue and vice ; by some persons who make high pretences to christianity , than hath been observ'd in many pagan nations ; but who those persons are , their professions and practices will best declare . but he tells us , 't is presumption and not faith , for the clergy of england ( as things are now amongst us ) to expect gods miraculous concurrence with them , in the management and exercise of their ministerial office , when there are ordinary means at hand , &c. what may this answerer mean here , by gods miraculous concurrence with them ? his continual presence , with the assistance of his holy spirit , he hath promised unto them who observe his commands , unto the worlds end ; as the ordinary means to render their ministry effectual , for the conversion of sinners , and the calling of those who are yet aliens and strangers to the covenant of grace ; and our blessed saviour , when he ascended up on high , gave gifts unto men , for the perfecting of the saints ; for the work of the ministry , and for the edifying of the body of christ. but if this answerer , who is of the clergy , be conscious that things are now so amongst them ; that the presence of god , and assistance of his holy spirit , are to be lookt upon , as miraculous concurrences with them , in the management and exercise of their ministeririal office ; he is to be excused for having recourse unto other means , to render his labours so considerable , as to make him see some fruits of the travel of his soul ; though , possibly , it may prove but bitter fruit in the end . the gentleman , i can assure him , never thought , as he intimates , that the peoples forsaking of any assemblies , was a certain prognostick that the ministerial power was quite extinguisht in all that were so forsaken ; as knowing there are , and may be defects and faults on all sides . but this the gentleman thinks , that where-ever any people manifest a desire , and thirst after knowledge in the things , and ways of god , ( as god be thanked , very many within these nations , at this d●y do , ) and after trial and experience of the ministerial power of any , do yet leave and forsake them , 't is no very good sign or token of their ministerial gifts and abilities . but it is a presumptuous and too bold comparison he here makes , between the success of christs ministry , while he exercised it in his own person upon earth , and that of the clergy of england : for , though taking on him the form of a servant , he was made in the likeness of men ; yet cou●d he have converted millions of sinners , as well as have commanded legions of angels , if it had so pleased him . the cases of elijah , and of athanasius , he instances in , are not at all to the present purpose ; for we do not say , that peoples leaving or forsaking their pastors , is an argument of their having lost all spiritual power and authority . but pastors leaving or forsaking the spiritual means by christ appointed for the rule and government of his church ; and applying to , and using of other means , than he appointed and commanded them ; to the subversion and ruine of his discipline , is an argument of it . and here i cannot but take notice of the great pique our answerer hath against liberty in religion , in that he would have the prophets apprehension , that the whole israel of god had forsaken his covenant , to proceed from the general indulgence granted by ahab , to all kinds of religion , as well as impieties ; when , though there may be reas●n enough to believe he indulg'd all kind of impieties , in that it is said , he did more to provoke the lord god of israel to anger , then all the kings of israel that were before him ; there is not the least evidence of his indulging all kinds of religions ; in that , though there were who had not bowed the knee to ball ; the prophet knew not of one true worshipper besides himself ; which is no great argument of their being indulged , among the all kind of religions , he talks of . but to conclude , whoever , as he says , shall seriously consider the depraved nature of man ; how much more prone it is to embrace vice , than vertue ; error than truth ; and the novel , rather than the good old way of religion ; will not be much startled or wonder that the greatest part of mankind , should forsake the truth and true religion , which have persecution and outward sufferings usually accompanying them ; to embrace those religions , which not only indulge them in their lusts , but have the greatest worldly interests and advantages attending them . query xxv . whether are not they strangers to the power and efficacy of the divine spirit ; or distrustfull of gods providence , to be always with his church ; who think christianity , which both began and spread it self over the world for several hundreds of years , under heathen and persecuting emperours , cannot stand or continue supported by the same divine presence and protection to the worlds end , without the aid and assistance of the civil magistrate ? reply to the answer to this query . we do not say , nor did we ever think , the first reformers of religion in this , or any other nation , were strangers to the power and efficacy of the divine spirit , or distrustful of gods promise to be always with his church ; because the whole reformation was not without the aid and assistance of civil magistrates : but bless god rather for their cooperating in so good a work . and yet we shall not scruple to say ; they had been strangers to the power and efficacy of the divine spirit , and its operations on the souls of men ; had they believed the reformation could not have been effected without them . and to ask what archbishop cranmer , hooper , ridly . &c. could have done to restore religion to its purity and truth ; had they not been seconded and assisted by the civil magistrate would have better become a turkish mufti , then a gospel minister . does he think the power and efficacy of gods spirit , in the mouths of his preachers , not sufficient to convert the most obstinate ; and to bring into captivity every thought to the obedience of christ ? how then did , not only peter and paul , with the rest of the apostles ; but the primitive christians for several ages after them , propagate christianity , and the truths of the gospel ; not only without the assistance , but even against the greatest opposition of civil magistrates ? and what can be more to the disparagement of the then english● clergy ; and derogatory to the spirit of god , then to say as he does , they might as well have attempted to have pull'd the sun out of its orb , as ever to have reformed religion , ( by the aid and assistance of the holy spirit ) without the aid and assistance of the civil magistrate . does he think things were then amongst them , as he would have them thought to be amongst us , that the presence of god , and assistance of his holy spirit , were to be look't upon as miraculous concurrences with the clergy in the management and exercise of their ministerial office ? i trust they are not ; and that he judges both of the one , and of the other ; but by himself . but so far i agree with him , that as kingdoms , and states , so religion and the church are to be secured and npheld , by the very same means and methods , by which they were established : and so the church of england , as founded in prelacy by the kings and nobles of england , as hath been shown , must be secured and upheld by the same means and methods ; or it will not long so continue , but as christian , wherein it was founded by the mouths of preachers with the aid and assistance of the holy spirit , it will , i trust , be so secured and upheld to the worlds end : yet that god will withal vouchsafe her , so great a blessing . that kings and queens may ever be her nursing fathers and nursing mothers , to protect and defend her from the rage and violence of wicked and unreasonable men , since all men have not faith , is my hearty desire . but our clergy man ( sensible , it seems , how things are now amongst them ) is distrustful of gods continuing his church with us ; and therefore would have the gentleman consider , in what scripture he hath promis'd , that either christianity in general , or protestantism in particular , should for ever continue the establisht religion of this kingdom . we know , indeed , of no particular promise concerning the establisht religion of this kingdom ; but this we know , that where two or three are gathered together in christs name , he hath promised to be in the midst of them ; and that he told his disciples , while they taught the observation of all things which he commanded them , he would be with them to the worlds end ; so that if christianity continue not with us , it is by o●r own default , in forsaking christ , and disobeying his commands . he is pleased to acknowledge here , what could not well be denied , that christianity spread it self over the world , under heathen and persecuting emperours , only by the power of the divine presence and protection , without the aid of the civil magistrate : but looks upon it as miraculous , and not to be depended on ; and would not , because some have been fed from heaven , without the help of ordinary and common sustenance , that others , therefore , should refuse their daily bread . no certainly , no wise or sober man will ever do that , but rather thankfully accept of the magistrates favour and assistance , if he will have that to be the churches daily bread ; though i should have thought , the divine presence and influences of the holy spirit , might rather have been so esteemed ; and to substitute in the place thereof , the magistrates coercive and compulsive power , savours more of mahumetism , than of christianity . so little reverence hath he for our blessed saviour , as to tell us , with a seeming contempt of him ▪ that true religion flourisht before ever he came in the flesh ; though he acknowledges , it was by the divine protection without the aid of the civil magistrate : but so soon as the israelites were settl'd in the land of promise , the true religion he says , no longer thriv'd and prosper'd , among them ; then it was encouraged and protected against all false and forraign religions , by the civil magistrate : god having then , as he would have us to believe , withdrawn his divine and spiritual assistances from it ; committing the sole care and concerns thereof to the civil magistrate . what then became of religion when those magistrates neglected their duty both towards it , and towards god ? was there then no true religion in israel ? or does he think it did not then thrive or prosper in the hearts of any , which is the proper seat of religion ? the apostle tells us , godliness is great gain ; but gain with some is the only godliness ; and they think religion never thrives or prospers , but in the outward prosperity of its professors ; though the contrary be evident , and so david tells us ; before i was afflicted , saith he , i went astray , but now have i kept thy word : and again ; it is good for me that i have been afflicted ; that i might learn thy statutes . yet will it not be denyed , but that the example and countenance of superiours , hath a great influence on the behaviour and conversation of inferiours , according to the old saying , regis ad exemplum , totus componitur orbis : yet religion does not stand and fall with them , for even in ahab● reign , there were who bowed not the knee to baal : who yet were neither schismaticks , nor to be censur'd as disobedient to superiours , because they were not of the then establisht national religion . but to conclude , our answerer tells us in plain terms , although christianity were planted by miracles , ( i.e. by the power of the divine presence , and its protection only , without the aid of the civil magistrate ) yet its preservation can be effected by no other means than laws : forgetting what he but now told us , that as kingdoms and states , so religion and the church , are to be secured and upheld , by the very same means and methods by which they were a●quired . but mahum●●atism prevailing , hath , it seems , alter'd his mind , and now he judges the sword of the spirit , unable to preserve christianity , without the aid of the civil sword ; and that christs promised presence with his church to the worlds end ; together with the gifts he gave unto men , for the perfecting of the saints ; for the work of the ministry , and for the edifying of his body ; are not of themselves sufficient for the preservation of christianity . yea , he sticks not to tell us , that these have slept for these fifteen hundred years ; ( judging it seems , others , as things are now amongst us , such as himself ) and consequently that christ continu'd not his gifts unto men for the ends before-mention'd , nor yet his presence for the preservation of his church above one hundred and fifty years ; so leaving her for an hundred and odd years , without either civil or spiritual means for her preservation ; it being years after christ , before she had the aid or protection of the civil magistrate : such an excellent advocate for christ and his church , hath this learned and judicious answerer approv'd himself . query xxvi . whether to persecute upon the account of religion , be not an indication of a cainish , ishmalitish , and wolfish nature ; and a certain sign , that such are none of christs sheep ? reply to the answer to this query . this answerer is sure the first that ever quarrel'd at the severities of any expressions , against such as persecuted on the accouut of religion ; there being certainly no viler miscreants on the earth , than they who molest or trouble any for rendring only unto god , the homage due from the creature to the creator . and though he knows of none of the socinian writers , that press , as he says , this argument with that bitterness as is expressed in the query . yet he may soon find some among the orthodox , who have prest it in the same words ; and from whom indeed , the query was but borrowed . the reverend , learned and pious dr. henry more of cambridge , having declared liberty of religion to be the common and natural right of al● nations and persons , tells us how grotious gives several instances thereof in his de jure belli & pacis : where he cites one of the canons of the council of toledo ; praecipit sancta synodus , &c. the holy synod decrees that none hereafter shall by force he compelled to the faith , for god hath mercy on whom he will have mercy ; and whom he will be hardneth . also tertullian , lex nova non se vindicat ultore gladio : the gospel supports not it self by the punishing sword. he cites also the constitutions of clemens , athanasius , and chrysostom to the same purpose ; who expressly exclude force and compulsion in bringing over to christianity . and certainly they who are brought over to it , ought not therefore to be treated with less of reason and moderation . that also , saith our reverend and learned doctor , is remarkable which bishop jewel notes out of chrysostom , in the th homily on st. matthew , nunquid ovis lupum persequitur aliquando , &c. does the sheep ever persecute the wolf ? no , but the wolf the sheep : so cain persecuted abel , not abel cain : so ishmael persecuted isaac not isaac ishmael : so the jews persecuted christ , not christ the jews : hereticks persecute christians , not christians hereticks ; by their fruits therefore ye shall know them : whereby he plainly implies , that persecution for conscience sake , is a very vnchristian or antichrstian symptom . and smartly again in the same homily , quem vides in sangnine persecutionis gaude●●tem , lupus est , he that is a persecutor , is no sheep of christs , but a wolf. and lastly ( for it were an infinite business , saith he , to prosecute this common place ) that is a shrewd intimation of the apostle , be that was after the flesh , persecuted him that was after the spirit ; so great an antipathy is there between the carnal and truly regenerate christian ; which should make any man afraid to feel any persecuting motions arise in his breast ; as being indications of a cainish , ishmaelitish , and wolvish nature ; and a certain sign that such are none of christs sheep . these are the bitter expressions which our sweet-natur'd , and tender-hearted answerer , hath not met with among his socinian acquaintance ; and which his meek and gentle spirit cannot bear against his brethren . but the reverend and pious dr. more farther tells us , that the cruel and bloody persecution of the true and living members of the kingdom of christ ; for their faithful adhering to the plain and undoubted commands of their heavenly soveraign , who is stiled king of kings , and lord of lords , is certainly the most signal and capital antichristianism that any policy can be corrupted with ; and the most grossly and visibly opposite , both to the nature of christianity , which beareth all things , and endureth all things ; which will not be over severe to the wicked , much less cruel to the good . and also to the description of christs government ; who is said , to redeem the souls of the needy from deceit and violence ; and that their blood is precious in his sight : he shall feed his flock like a shepherd ; he shall gather his lambs with his arms , and carry them in his bosom . this is the genuine spirit of the true christian pastors , whether of higher or lower degree , to be thus tenderly affected towards their sheep . but such as thwack and beat them , and violently drive them ; instead of going before them in a way of christian example , these are not shepherds , but butchers ; and will easily drive them to the shambles , and see their throats cut without remorse . this being the genuine spirit , as he truly says , of the true christian pastors ; to be thus tenderly affected towards their sheep ; what shall we judge of those , who not only thwack and beat ; and violently drive them : but are so tenderly affected towards their persecutors , they cannot bear their being hardly spoken of ? and how impertinent are we here told ( while inquiring only after the nature of those , who persecute upon the accouut of religion ) of the enacting laws to punish those that violate and deflowr religion ; as if to persecute for religion , and punish the violaters of religion , were the same thing . we diswade not , as he insinuates , inflicting punishments upon sensual and unrighteous persons , such as violate the laws of either table ; and are far from thinking christian justice and righteousness , inconsistent with clemency and lenity , of spirit . yet is it neither just nor righteous to execute before judgement . and as our blessed saviour is stiled the shepherd of souls ; and as he says , that title imports , that he would have not only his lambs and sheep fed , but grievous wolves watch , and their mouths stopt too , when they devour the flock , and teach things which they ought not for filthy lucre ' s sake ; it becomes a duty to stop his mouth , who endeavours what he can , that christs flock should be devoured ; teaching notorious untruths , and things which he ought not for filthy . lucer's sake . nor will it , i doubt , advantage him , that as christ is a meek saviour to returning sinners ; so he is a terrible judge to apostates and evil doers , while he continues a persecutor , since against such , as himself hath told us , his arrows are ordain'd . and though , as he says , he begins to execute vengeance in this world , by raising up men of undaunted spirits , who make righteousness the girdle of their loins , and judgement their robe and diadem ; to succour his church , support his worship and punish his enemies , yet such will never persecute for religion , nor think those to give ill example unto others , or to become schismatical and disorderly in their stations , who serve god according to the rule and order of the gospel ; nor judge any evil doers , for rendring unto him the homage due from the creature to the creator ; seeing by this no occasion is given to the enemy to reproach and blaspheme the good ways of god ; whatever occasion some cainish or ishmalitish spirits may thence take so to do . but for such as have erred and strayed from the flock of christ ; or neglect the christian duties he requires of them ; let the magistrate , in gods name , and by the ways and means of his appointment , reduce or otherwise punish them ; no good christian will certainly ever be displeased thereat . but , says our answerer , 't is no indication of any such nature as the query mentions to punish evil doers ; it is not indeed , nor does the query say it is : but to persecute on the account of religion , as cain persecuted abel , ishmael , isaac , &c. and as their followers at this day persecute such as are more righteous than themselves , is an indication of such a nature as the query mentions . and now if magistrates will not do as he would have them , he declares them wickedly unjust , and all those terrible epithetes mentioned in the query to be ascribed to them what then is it he would have them to do ? to break the jaw-bone of the wicked , and pluck the spoil out of their teeth . so would every honest and good man. to repay men according to their deeds , fury to his adversaries , and recompence to his enemies ; and who desires not the same ? to imploy their powr for his honour from whom it descends ; nothing sure is more just . not to permit the christian faith to be torn in pieces , by a thousand sects and factions , and wolves to prey upon christs flock : this above all , is , indeed , their duty ; and 't were to be wished they would carefully observe it , and not suffer , much less assist , any to impose their thoughts or fancies in the agenda and credenda of the gospel upon others : but permit the scriptures to be the sole rule of all mens faith and obedience , in all gospel duties and administrations : nothing being more evident than that particular churches or persons , assuming to themselves a power to decree articles of faith , and impose them upon others ; is that which hath torn the christian faith in pieces ; and divided the church into sects and factions ; and which gives opportunity unto wolves to prey upon christ's flock ; and to the great enemy of mankind and his wicked instruments to sport themselves in her ruine , corrupting the worship of god with their additions , and bringing scorn and contempt upon all the offices of christianity , and the whole ministry thereof . let all men , saith the learned and judicious mr. chillingworth , believe the scripture , and that only ; and endeavour to believe it in the true sense , and require no more of others ; and they shall find this not only a better , but the only means to suppress heresies , and restore vnity : for he that believes the scripture sincerely , and endeavours to believe it in the true sense , cannot possibly be an heretick . and if no more than this were required of any man , to make him capable of the churches communion , then all men so qualified , though they were different in opinion , yet notwithstanding any such difference , must be of necessity one in communion . and if , as he says , to tolerate unruly and vain talkers and deceivers , who vent their idle fancies to corrupt and withdraw others from the simplicity of the truth ; be an indication of more cruelty , than to tollerate so many thieves and murtherers upon publick roades and highways ; this answerer is by no means to be tollerated , having manifested himself , so unruly and vain a talker , and deceiver , as he hath done , query xxvii . whether can any think . that they who persecute christ in his members , despoiling them of their goods , and imprisoning their persons ; and that too , for their faithful adhering to the plain and undoubted commands of their heavenly soveraign ; will speed better at the great day of account , than those whom christ himself hath told us , shall be then rejected , but for not visiting and relieving his poor members , when in want , in sickness , or any other adversity ? reply to the answer to this query . instead of answering this query , 't is very judiciously objected , it hath many things questionable in it . and with as great judgement , and to as little purpose ; he likewise tell us , that none are true members of christ , besides those that are vnited to his church ; for that christ is the head , and his church his body ; and ( as he also judiciously observes ) no one can be a member belonging to the head , unless he be some way or other vnited to the body . but sure , our answerer is the first pretended christian , that ever questioned the soundness of christs body , the holy catholick church ; or that a christians joyning to it might endanger his internal vnion to christ who is h●●d . and wherefore doth he here tell us , what the query neither denies , nor questions ; that the church of england , is a sound part of the catholick church ; unless to manifest his dialectick art , in proving , that whoever , ( in any thing ) withdraw themselves from any part of christs body , cut themselves off from christ the head : and therefore they who withdraw communion from the church of england , ( though but in the least minute circumstances or ceremonies ) belong not unto christ. so that , it seems , with this learned and judicious answerer , out of the ceremonial pale of the church of england , there is no salvation : and if any are punisht for so cuting themselves off from christ the head , their punishment is no persecution : quod erat demonstrandum . great wits according to the proverb , have short memories ; he could not else have so soon forgotten , which he but now reprov'd the independants for , ( viz. ) their eva●uating one main article of the christian creed ; faith in one catholick church : for that , as he said , they restrained it to themselves , whereas he so restrains it to the church of england , as that he allows of none withdrawing themselves from her communion , to belong unto christ , the one main article therefore of his christian creed , faith in one catholick church ; is , it seems , faith in the church of england , ( or rather faith in whatever church is uppermost . ) and though out of her there is no salvation ; yet , for arguments sake , he will suppose , that those who separate from her communion ( even in her very ceremonies ) are notwithstanding ( such ) their separation , real members of christs mystical body ; yet none of them , he says , are persecuted for their faithful adhering unto christ , or the undoubted and plain commands of their heavenly soveraign : nor does the query say they are . but supposing , as he supposeth , that any should be punisht for assembling together to pray , or partake of the ordinances of the gospel , which christ hath instituted , and requires the observation of ; would not such be persecuted , for their faithful adhering unto christ ; and to the plain and undoubted commands of their heavenly soveraign ? but says our answerer , let the gentleman produce one person that ever suffer'd for performing any essential duty of christian religion . we know not what he may esteem an essential duty of christian religion ; who is one with him , who declares the outward worship of god , to be no part of religion . but if he will allow praying , preaching , and administring the sacraments , to be essential duties of the christian religion ; as by all good christians they have hitherto been esteemed . he need not go beyond his own parish to meet with those , who have suffer'd , and deeply suffer'd , even by his instigation , for the performance of those duties . but he tells us , 't is not for the performance of those duties , but for the disorderly and irregular way of performing them , that they are punisht . very good : by what rule then does he judge the way of their performance disorderly and irregular ; all order consisting in the due observation of some rule : now if he will tell us of any rule they therein transgress , which he will abide by ; he hath said something to the purpose . he tells us , indeed , they are punisht for not doing them in that due manner , as is enjoyn'd them by their superiours ; yet does not say , the injunction of superiours , is the rule whereby they are to be perform'd . nay , he says , if the governours of the church did command a worship that were idolatrous or superstitious ; or did appoint vain , foolish , and ridiculous ceremonies ; they were not therein to be complyed with . so that the injunctions or commands of superiours , are not , by his own confession , this rule . but he tells us , they are punisht for being disorderly in their stations and callings , and for being disobedient to government and laws . if by being disorderly in their stations and callings , he means , as he elsewhere says , their vsurping the office of bishops , as well as of the inferiour clergy : he hath thereon , already had the judgement of as learned and judicious a divine , as most the church of england can boast of . and for their being disobedient ; though he hath advised us to resign up our selves unto the fathers of the church ; he hath not yet told us , they are to be obeyed in whatever they shall , or may , command us , so that neither can the commands of governours , nor laws of superiours , be this rule ; nor indeed , ought else but the will of god , revealed in his word : to the law , and to the testimony , was the old rule ; and the divine institution is still the only rule , to judge of the orderly and disorderly performance of all religious duties ● by and if the manner of their performance be not according unto this rule ; it is , indeed , disorderly and irregular ; and suffering upon that account , may be esteemed a punishment , rather then a persecution ; as may likewise their sufferings , who are disobedient to the laws and governments of men , in all civil and secular matters and concerns ; and theirs also , who censure the actions of authority ; vsurp the office of the ministry ; endanger the peace of the state , and violate the vnity of the church . nor are there greater violaters of the churches unity ; than they who impose on christs disciples , other conditions of church-fellowship and communion , than christ or his apostles , ever enjoyned or required . and so far i agree with this answerer , that the not punishing of these , is prejudicial both to church and state ; the one being thereby over-run with factions and seditions ; and the other , ( as wofull experience tells us , ) with schisms , heresies and contentions . but our answerer grows pleasant , and plays with his reader , in telling him , dissenters are persecuted to , what the primitive christians were persecuted from , ( viz. ) their churches , or publick place of divine worship ; for dissenters are , not certainly , persecuted to their churches ; though some may account it a persecution to be compelled unto his . there hath been , and may be , great difference in the causes , as well as degrees , of persecution ; but whoever suffers in any kind for his faithful adhering unto the plain and undoubted commands of his heavenly soveraign ; the author● thereof , will not be excus'd , because others have been more barbarous and cruel than they . and yet , that even these are not as bad as the worst ; may be ascribed rather to the good hand and providence of god ; and moderation of those in authority , restraining them , than to their good wills or desires . the instance he gives us , of a father's correcting his child , and the childs crying out m●ther ; is very impertinent here . parents may correct their children , and princes their subjects ; but as the cause makes the martyr , so 't is that must denominate it either persecution or punishment . 't is christ alone knows who are his ; yet thus much we shall presume to say ; that they who persecute him in his members , will not speed better at the great day of account , than they whom himself hath told us , shall be then rejected , but for not visiting and relieving his poor members , when in want , in sickness or in any other adversity . query xxviii . whether , since offences will come , it be not every ones concern , to be more than ordinary careful , he involves not himself in that dreadful woe , pronounced against those by whom they come ? matt. . . reply to the answer to this query . quoting the text , might have satisfied this answerer , that by offences here , no more is understood , then what our blessed saviour intended when he pronounc't that dreadful wo against those by whom they come : and whether they be the persecutions which discourage christians from owning of his name ; attending upon his ordinances ; adhering unto his truth ; or ought else that administers occasion to another to transgress any law of god ; neglect his duty , or obstruct him in a course of piety and good works ; it certainly concerns every one to be more than ordinarily careful , he involves not himself in that dreadfull wo , pronounced against those by whom they come . the query , indeed , cautions all to beware splitting on so dangerous a rock ; but chargeth none with running , or driving others , upon it . evil therefore be to him that evil thinks . mr. baxter , as quoted by him , says very well , that a minister should not more fear offending his particular flock , than offending the catholick church ; but this will neither justifie , nor excuse his offending of either . and notwithstanding this answerer's hope ; he will not find a national church of humane institution , to have that authority over its members , ( even when it shall be determin'd who are so ) as a private minister hath over the flock , over which the holy ghost hath made him overseer . whether dissenters take no offence , as he says , but what they bring upon themselves by their own perverted judgements , &c. let them see too , who are therein concern'd ; and must one day answer for it . there is no doubt , but it may , and often does so happen , that one man is the occasion of another mans sin ; and yet the guilt of him who sins , not to be changed upon him , whose action occasion'd it ; which yet hinders not , but that many may likewise occasion others to sin , for which they must be accountable . and yet none sure doubts , but that , as he says , in the enacting of laws , authority is not so much to consider , what will please the humours , as advance the benefit of those under its charge and protection : nor can we have so hard thoughts of any in authority , as to imagine they should make laws thwart or contradict those that are divine : nor yet who takes or gives offences ; for as every one must give an account of himself to god ; so let every one look to himself , and his own duty . and as ( he tells us ) the day is coming , when all mens disguises and vizards shall be pull'd off , and their most retired thoughts and actions laid open and manifest to men and angels ; 〈◊〉 't were well if all men had a serious and due sense thereof ; and so liv'd and behav'd themselves in the whole course of their lives , as to convince the world , they spoke as they thought , and believ'd as they profest . but who are they this libellous answerer accuses of charging the church of england with offences ; and denying the magistrates power and supremacy in matters of religion ; as by law declared ? these queries being no ways guilty thereof ; for , as they respected , so they were directed only to such as himself ; who against the doctrine of the church of england , and principles of the reformation , require an implicit faith , and worse than blind obedience from the people : and `t is beyond his power and malice , to find any thing in them , inconsistent with their receiving the holy eucharist according to law ; who scruple not the lawfulness thereof . and who are they this libeller would have to question , not only the kings coercive authority , but the whole ministry and being of the church of england , and accuse her government of more tiranny and persecution , then ever yet was objected against her , by the most violent of her romish adversaries ? not those sure , who are against secular force and compulsion in religion ; which is the utmost import of these queries ; for then the charge will reach all those reverend and learned divines of the church of england before mention'd ; with most others of name and fame in the christian world , who have decry'd the same as unscriptural , and inconsistent with the precepts of the gospel , and principles of christianity ; and will , indeed , argue him to be the person of that evil and depraved temper of spirit he speaks of . yet i agree with him , that men eminent in their country , and such as have a reputation for knowledge and wisdom , might do more good by their examples ; than in this age , the church can do with its censures , or church-men with their instructions . but let him be assured , none shall ever have a reputation for wisdom and knowledge , who give not unto god , the things that are gods ; as unto caesar , things that are caesars ; fear to whom fear ; aud honour to whom honour is due . and let him not deceive himself in thinking men of wisdom and knowledge separate from the church , because they separate from some churchmen of vicious and depraved spirits ; or to have enmity against that , because they will have no fellowship or communion with these : it not being their duty to follow any , farther then they are followers of christ ; christians being obliged to walk together , so far only as they have attain'd . to require more of any ; is , indeed , ( as the apostle at large declares in his chapter to the romans ) to lay a stumbling-block in the way of their christian brethren ; and infallibly to involve those that so do , in that dreadfull wo pronounc't by our blessed saviour in the text cited . but has this answerer the vanity to think , his illogical and undue inferences ; false suggestions , impertinent and ridiculous reasonings ; and nonsensical answers , should convince any of guilt ? yet if he know of any who are fallen from their first works ; or otherwise wanting in their duty ; let him not spare to charge and charge them home ; and if they cannot acquit themselves ; let not reproach and shame only befall them ; but whatever severity law and justice can inflict , upon them . 't is very much , that notwithstanding all , so learned and judicious a person hath written in the churches vindication ; any should yet reply , the ecclesiastical laws and constitutions do little or no good ; and therefore were better , for the reasons mention'd to be repeal'd : against which , besides what he hath already said ; he adds the saying of a roman , when rome , as he says , resembled england by the ill government of galba ; that it is far better to live where nothing is lawful , then where all things are lawful ; which is such a reflection on the government , as those queries , with all their sedition , shall , i hope , never be found guilty of . but what may be the instance of ill government which is here so severely reflected on ? it will , upon inquiry , be found to be no other ; than his majesties late gracious declaration of indulgence to dissenters in religion ; the which , though it secur'd to the church all its rights priviledges , and emoluments , was yet so intolerable to some church-men ; in restraining them only from , falling upon and ruining their poor , peaceable and pious neighbours , that none have more , and few , i think● so much reflected on authority , as some of them have thereon done ; an evident demonstration what loyal and faithfull subjects they would quickly be , should authority deal with them , as it hath done with some others : for who would not be loyal , to kind and bountiful masters ? wolves and tygers are so to those who feed and favour them : but they only are to be accounted loyal subjects , who are so for conscience-sake , to severe and froward governours ; as well as to the kind and courteous ; and not as their benefactors , but as gods ministers ; which is a loyalty , few of these loyalists can boast of . but he again tells us , the scripture compares the church to an army , which it does , for terror ; but not for being alike officer'd : and for an army , says he , to be left to its own liberty ; and every common souldier to observe no order , nor live under any discipline , is the ready way to expose it as a prey to the first invader ; it is so indeed ; who is it , therefore that would have no common souldier , observe any order , nor live under any discipline ? not they certainly , who would have both the officers and souldiers of this army , to observe all the orders of the chief commander ; the officers in commanding , as well as souldiers in obeying , which will be found to be the order and discipline , that ought to be observ'd . but this answerer tells us , the little good that is done by the laws of this church and kingdom , proceeds either from the want of their due execution ( which is still a reflection on the government ; as is , his elsewhere saying , the vigorous execution of one law , would do more good than a million of proclamations , &c. ) or from the indisposition of those persons , who expect protection from laws , without paying any reverence or obedience to them , &c. 't was never denyed , but that in civil and secular affairs and concerns , force and compulsion , is and must be us'd ; or there can be no rule or government amongst men : but in the concerns of religion , abstracted from secular interests and advantages , it is otherwise ; men are therein to be gain'd and govern'd , by perswasion and conviction only ; religion cannot be impos'd ; nor is any thing more absur'd , than to endeavour to promote the truths of the gospel , contrary to the laws of the gospel ; virga regum , as rupertus truly tells us , est virga dominationis ; virga discipulorum christi , virga est dilectionis : or as hieron hath it rex praeest nolentibus , episcopus volentibus . and the apostle tells us , there is a way of bringing every thought into captivity to the obedience of christ ; but the weapons whereby that victory is atcheived are not carnal ; which is , indeed , the cause of the little good that is therein done by civil and ecclesiastical laws . this answerer may therefore very well ask , what effect ecclesiastical laws can have upon atheists and infidels ; all the ecclesiastical laws in the world , seconded and assisted by the laws of the state ; not being able to convince or convert one atheist or infidel : hypocrities , or dissembling professors , they may , indeed make , but can never make one true or sincere christian : penal laws , therefore , concerning religion , have ever respected more the civil peace and interests of kingdoms and commonwealths , ( that under pretence of religion , the rights of princes , and liberty of the people , be not invaded or injur'd ) then the truths of the gospel , which are not by those means or methods , to be preserved or propagated . so a late great minister of state , speaking of penal laws against papists , tells them ; 't is not against their opinions of purgatory or transubstantiation , though errors ; but against their owning the personal authority of the pope , within his majesties dominions , as dangerous to the state , that those laws are provided , disclaming therefore of that , they should find themselves at great ease . and it was the great business of the chief ministers of state in queen elizabeths reign , to satisfie the world , that none ever suffer'd in england for religion , but for treason or treasonable practices , under colour or pretence of religion . nor can we believe some late laws concerning religion were ever intended to molest or punish any for the performance of any truly religious duty ; but of such only as under pretence thereof , met to contrive insurrections and rebellions ; and thereby became dangerous to the state ; and such certainly , of all men , ought to be the most severely dealt with , as well for their hypocrisie , and abuse of religion , as for such their disloyal practices : for none , sure , can imagine his majesty would ever have indulg'd dissenters the exercise of their religion , had it been against that the laws had provided , and not rather against the danger that might from some meetings have accrued to the publick ; the preservation of the publick peace , being the ground both of those laws , and likewise of his majesties declaration of indulgence , upon the difference of times , and circumstances of affairs ; as is evident from the praeamb'es of those statutes ; and his majesties gracious answer of the th of february , to the petition and address of the house of commons , as followeth , c. r. his majesty hath received an address from you , which he hath seriously consider'd of , and returneth you this answer , that he is much troubled , that that declaration , which he put out for ends so necessary to the quiet of the kingdom ; and especially in that conjuncture ; should have proved the cause of disquiet to the house of commons ; and have given occasion to question his power in ecclesiasticks ; which he finds not done in the reign of any of his ancestors . and he is sure he never had thoughts of using it otherwise , than as it has been intrusted in him to the peace and establishment of the church of england , and to the ease of all his subjects in general . neither doth he pretend to the right of suspending laws wherein the properties , rights , or liberties of his subjects are concerned ; nor to alter any thing in the established doctrine or discipline of the church of england . the only design of this was , to take off the penalties the statutes inflicted upon dissenters ; and which he believes , when well consider'd of you , your selves would not wish executed according to the rigour and leter of the law. neither hath he done this with thought of avoiding or precluding the advice of his parliament . and if any bill shall be offer'd him which shall appear more proper to attain the aforesaid ends , and secure the peace of the church and kingdom , when tender'd in due manner to him , he will shew how ready he will be to concur in all wayes , that shall appear good for the kingdom . how expressive of royal goodness , and heavenly benignity and compassion towards mankind , is this gracious answer ; which cannot but endare his majesty unto all sober and pious persons , of what judgement or perswasion soever in religion . nor were the commons against the indulgenee , but the way and manner of it ; in that they immediately upon this pes●a bill of ease for protestant dissenters , which was sent up to the lords ; but the differences that after happen'd between the two houses about jurisdiction and priviledge , with other greater affairs of state , hath hitherto obstructed its farther progress . but to return to our answerer , who tells us , that to repeal the churches laws , would administer too just an occasion to the papists , to triumph in the ruine of it : for what truth or being , saith he , could that church pretend to , that had neither ephod nor traphim ; no order , no law , no liturgy , no bishop , no discipline . it seems then , in his judgement , all these in the chnrch of england depend wholly upon the ecclesiastical laws ; although the primitive church , in , and after , the apostles time , had both order , law , discipline , bishops or overseers , without other laws , than what were divine , or of apostolical institution : though i am absent in the flesh , yet am i with you in the spirit , joying and beholding your order , &c. saith the apostle to the colossians . and is not the good word of god , a law to all believers ? but this law , it seems , is perished from our priest : who yet , we hope , will not deny the holy ghost a power , without the aid of ecclesiastical laws , of making bishops or overseers , over the churches of christs institution ; and such , certainly , are not without discipline ; nor deprived of law , order , or overseers ; nor consequently of truth or being ; upon the repeal of ecclesiastical , or the churches laws . yea , god forbid , the christian church should depend upon the continuance or alteration of these or those civil or ecclesiastical laws ; which we see chang'd and alter'd , as oft almost , as we change our governours , which is , indeed , a consideration that ought seriously to be thought on , by all the lovers of religion ; and who have any regard or concern , for the truths of the gospel , and purity of ●hrists institutions . but says this answerer , we have now unanswerable arguments to justifie our departure from rome , but if all our laws and constitutions be laid aside and abrogated ; we should be just like the israelites , when they waged war with the philistines ; in the day of battle , there was neither sword nor spear found in the hand of any of the people . if then our laws and constitutions , be our only unanswerable arguments to justifie our departure from rome , and our only swords and spears , to fight against those adversaries an abrogation or change of those laws , and constitutions would , indeed , disarm , and silence us ; and might as well justifie our return to rome , as now our departure from it : but i trust , though this be rati● ultima , the best arms and argument , of our answerer ; we have yet other arms and arguments to justifie our departure from rome ; and fight against those philistines . but he now tells us , 't is none of his bufiness or intention , to exasperate any mans spirit , much less to direct his governours , &c. yet he admonishes them to stand up in a zealous vindication of their own liberty and power ; and to provoke them to it , upbraides them with cowardize if they do it not ; telling them , it is there neglect thereof , that encourages men in their 〈…〉 separations ; disobedience and 〈…〉 provokes god to deprive them 〈…〉 power and authority , with which be entrusts them , and which they have betrayed and exposed to scorn and insolence of his and their greatest enemies . yea , tells them , histories are not barren of instances , how god hath revealed his wrath from heaven against those governours , and deprived them of the honour of being his deputies , when their spirits have been softned with sensuality and ease , and they have lived in fear of their inferiours , who ought to live in fear of them . which is such a menace of , and reflection on authority , and our governours ; as none but this bold and insolent answerer , would ever have dar'd to publish . he does well , therefore , to recollect himself , and tell us , he has proceeded too far on this argument ; which indeed , speaks him a person so highly impudent and immeasurably malitions , that ( as himself hath elsewhere said ) he is fitter to receive a confutation from the penalties of laws , and the seutence of a judge , than from the strength of reason or argument . but he concludes in the words of , indeed , a truly wise and learned statesman ; that herefies and scisms are of all others the greatest scandals ; yea , more than corruption of manners , &c. which being so , all just and lawful means ought , certainly , to be used ; not only for their suppression , but prevention ; in removing the causes of them ; of which , there is not a greater , than the authority by some ascribed to the 〈◊〉 yea to particular churches , church - 〈…〉 imposing upon christians in the 〈…〉 ●●●nda , of the gospel ; which is , indeed , as that learned and judicious statesman says , a wound or solution of continuity , destructive of the churches unity ; dividing her into as many sects or parties , as there are particular churches , or societies of churchmen , assuming such authority in the christian world . i shall therefore conclude the whole in the words of a learned and judicious son of the church of england , who , in vindicating his friend for not taking on him that authority his adversary would have had him , that is , for not playing the pope , thus expresses himself : certainly saith he , if protestants be faulty in this matter , it is for doing it too much , and not to little . this presumptious imposing of the senses of men , upon the words of god ; the special senses of men , upon the general words of god ; and laying them upon mens consciences together , under the equal penalty of death and damnation ; this vain conceit that we can speak of the things of god , better than in the words of god : this defying our own interpretations , and tyrannous enforcing them upon others ; this restraining of the word of god from that latitude and generality , and the understandings of men from that liberty , wherein christ and the apostles left them ; is , and hath been , the only fountain of all the schisms in the church , and that which makes them immortal ; the common incendiary of christendom , and that which tears in pieces , not the coat , but the bowells and members of christ. ridente turcâ , nec dolente judaeo . take away these walls of separation , and all will be one : take away this persecuting , burning , cursing , damning of men , for not subscribing to the words of men , as the words of god ; require of christians , only to believe christ , and to call no man master but him only ; let those leave claiming infallibility , that have no title to it ; ' and let those that in their words disclaim it , disclaim it likewise in their actions : ' in a word , take away tyranny , which is the devils instrument to support errors , superstiti●●s and ' impieties , in the several parts of the world ; which could not otherwise long withstand the power of truth ; i say take away tyranny and restore christians to their just and full liberty of captivating their understandings to scripture only ; and as rivers , when they have a free passage , run all to the ocean ; so it may well be hoped , by gods blessing , that universal liberty thus moderated , may quickly reduce christendom to truth and vnity . finis . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e gal. . . chap. §. . p. . imp. . mat. . . acts . . , &c. rom. . . . . eph . , &c. thess. , , , . phil. . isa. . . safe way to salv. p. . notes for div a -e mat. . . see ans. to the . and . quer. mat. . 〈…〉 the . qu. phil. . ▪ acts . notes for div a -e eph. . . . . . acts . . phil. . . cor. . acts . . . . rev. . statute of provisors of benifices . cor. . . matt ; . . notes for div a -e thes. : . notes for div a -e deut. . . joh. . . notes for div a -e tim. . . chro. chro. chro. . verse . rev. . . . ire . chap. . sect. . lib. . cap. . epist. ● . ad soro . lib. ad const. notes for div a -e rom. . . notes for div a -e ans. to the th q. lib. . c. . notes for div a -e isa. . . acts . deter . q. quest. . notes for div a -e co● . matt. . . eph. . cor. . notes for div a -e thess. matt. . notes for div a -e luke . . notes for div a -e ir● . ch . . rom. . notes for div a -e rev. . . dullor . dubit . l. . cap. . rule . notes for div a -e rat. account . p. . notes for div a -e det. quaest. quaest. . rom. . cor . . ire . ch . . p. matt. . matt. . th●ss . . . eph. . . cor. . rom. . psal. . . chap. . matt. . joh. . . mal. . , . notes for div a -e jer. . . heb. . notes for div a -e indulgence not justified sect . tolerat . discust in two dialogues p. . rom. . . psal. . . jer. . . notes for div a -e communicating under one or both kinds by some , said to be indifferent ▪ catholicks no idolators , by t. g. p. . pref. to his irenicon . notes for div a -e lev. . . deut. . jer. . mat. . preface to his iren. cor. . heb. . . deut. isa. . . psal. . . ans. to the . q. col. . , . . act. . gal. . . eccl. pali . ch . sect. pet. . cor. . acts . . acts . . notes for div a -e tim. . ● matt. . bilson's true differ . part page . a●s . to the query . notes for div a -e eph. . kings . joh . tim. . notes for div a -e psal. . , . notes for div a -e myst of godliness , l. ● . c. . p. . lib c . sect . myst. of iniq. l. . c. . pag. . psal. . isa. . pres. to the author of cha . main . notes for div a -e eccl. pol. p. . ans. to the . and query . matt. . notes for div a -e rom. . . ● cor. . e●o● clar. anim. on cres. p. . . as appears by the jeveral treatises written to that purpose by their order . chap. . . ezek. . . chil. safe way to sal. part. . ch . . a defence of the duke of buckingham's book of religion and worship from the exceptions of a nameless author by the pensilvanian. penn, william, - . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; 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[ ], p. printed for a. banks ..., london : . attributed to william penn by wing and nuc pre- imprints. reproduction of original in the union theological seminary library, new york. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng buckingham, george villiers, -- duke of, - . -- short discourse upon the reasonableness of men's having a religion. religious tolerance -- early works to . - tcp assigned for keying and markup - spi global keyed and coded from proquest page images - emma (leeson) huber sampled and proofread - emma (leeson) huber text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion a defence of the duke of buckingham's book of religion & worship , from the exceptions of a nameless author . by the pensilvanian . deceit is in the heart of them that imagine evil ; but to the councellors of peace is joy. prov. . london , printed for a. banks , in the year . to the reader . it pleas'd me so well to see any thing in defence of religion , under the name of the duke of buckingham , that i was quite of another mind to the gentleman that troubled himself with an answer ; and thought if he had said less to his point , it shew'd , to his greatest honour , by his own sense , the force of his convictions , and how little serv'd him to the belief of a deity . that so much wit and quality , that have made so great a figure in the world , should give this on-set to atheism , that had so long stoln the credit of both , to giver her self value with men of highest rank , might have escap'd a reprimand from the deist or christian ; and this was enough to send the atheist a challenge . that his discourse was not labour'd with repetitious thought , nor writ in the language of the schools , is owing to his better genius , and more sensible education . it needs no apology , and is its own encomium ; to be sure it is like himself , and that is an original . in this evening of his time , i heartily wish him the felicity of living the irreprovable life of his admir'd instinct , especially , since be believes it is not out of his power , and that such extraordinary rewards follow it . and this will add a demonstration to his probabilities for religion . i would then press the nobility and gentry of england , to the imitation of so illustrious an example , and that those virtues might be recover'd , that once made the discipline of their ancestors so much the honour of their king , the safety of their country , and the just fear and admiration of all foreigners . for the person that undertook to answer the dukes discourse , in my opinion , he has , with the duke , abus'd his time ; as all do , that , mistake . write loosely , beg the question , pervert the sense ; and , to crown their work , contradict themselves . hear the noble peer this friendship , and his essay may challenge it for a duty : but i am particularly interested in a reply , by a reflection the author gives me in his answer . 't were justice to vindicate a less man , when assaulted in my name . but there is another reason ; his arguments were too low an entertainment for the duke , and therefore fit for a man of my inferior talents . while i reprehend his performance , i must not be too confident in my own , especially when i have not his six hours haste to offer in excuse of my self ; for , to my dulness i must own , it has cost me the best part of six days , and therefore time for me to rest . such as it is , friendly reader , take , read , and judge . i am no sceptick , for i believe what i write . if i err , i am to be inform'd : the way , must be reason , as it is with all reasonable men , and as i profess my self such , so from them i expect , the mercy that all men need , and desire , when it comes to their turn to be where i am , i mean , upon the stage of censure , farewell , just reader , thine of long standing , w.p. a defence , &c. his first paragraph contains his wonder , that the d. should espouse the cause of whiggism in her old age , when a cast mistress , and scorn'd of all . and all that know the d● humour , would wonder too , if the thing were true ; and if not , the wonder turns upon the man's confidence . it has been the d's fault to love fresher game ; but this is as much below his wit , as the other against his inclination . but if the story cou'd be true , i am not of the answerer's mind ; it was not his pity but policy to entertain her ; perhaps , to know the secrets of his great peer , p. . for so cecil serv'd essex . but what is whiggism ? he tells us very briefly ; 't is tolleration & persecution ; and that these qualities made her so amiable to the associating lords . how this affects the d. that was not of their knot , is un-accountable , and how those l ds . lov'd the persecuting part of her , is as hard to understand ; unless he means it of the exclusion , and prosecution of the popish plot ; and if that be it , he does ill to rail at the rom. cath. and their religion too , p. . . as able to ruine the whole earth , and lay the foundation of eternal mischiefs to mankind . but if tolleration be a part of whiggism , it may touch the d. in general : only in this the man is mistaken , she came not last to his hands ▪ he was the first of all the peers of england that had her : and his credit be it spoken , in this he is constant , and more the same george d. of b. than this author fancies him , p. . but must the d's book of the weightiest matters ; be disgrac'd with whiggism ? is it whiggish to assert a god , his providence o● the world , the immortality of the soul , the duty of divine adoration , freedom of our wills from absolute predestination , the unreasonableness of one mans forceing another mans conscience in religion , the necessity of good works , and rewards and punishments ▪ must so noble a design be blasted with so odious a name ? and his essay branded without distinction ? don't we all know that the state dissenter was esteemed the whig , and the great offence of whiggism the interruption of the line ? which must be the persecuting part of whiggism in this mans account , or none , and can the duke be guilty of this , for writing a discourse against persecution of any body for religion ? if indulgence be whiggism , let him remember who it was that lately wanted it . and if persecution be whiggism too , who it is that he makes whiggs now : himself a great one to be sure , page , , & . in the mean time , the duke of buckingham it seems , has enter'd the lists , is become a champion , and a glorious protector of whiggism , alias , toleration of dissenting christians ; a greater honour , i think he could hardly have done him : and in this i am of his mind . his second paragraph begins with a question every body may answer , to wit , if it was not boldly done of him to answer a peer of his high rank , pag. . and for my part , i think so , and somthing worse ; considering the abuse , slightness , untruth and contradiction with which he has perform'd it . for the duke cannot think it ill done of him to answer , but to answer ill , no body can think well done , and that 's his case ▪ but to fight this noble peer with success , he unhappily tells us , he has armed himself with an invulnerable conscience ; and i am afraid so , because he shows himself insensible of his injustice and indecency to a peer , that himself says , is of the highest rate , in the beginning of his answer , and flies to the penal laws to support himself at the latter end of it . but he would have us believe , his nature and education are more soft and obliging ; and if we may trust him , it is pity his religion should have spoil'd him , or that a man should be the worse for that which should have made him better . he says , though in approaching so near his grace , he cannot be procul a jove , he will be sure to be procul a fulmine . this i presume was to pass for wit , but he is somewhat unlucky in it , and either jeers the duke , or himself ; for this is to tell us the dukes arguments have no force ; or if they have , he has wit enough to keep out of their way . i might add a third , perhaps he presumes upon his goodness , which i perceive is more then jupiter himself must hope for in some countreys , from the malitia of the pulpit . but now i think of it , who knows but he meant scandalum magnatum , and that by concealing his name , he should escape the thunderbolt ; least that might happen to turn the wine of his hopes into the vinegar of despairs ; his own sweet metaphor . he ends this paragraph p. . with be ▪ speaking his own impunity , and professing a profound veneration for his graces high character . he more than once labours to perswade the duke to let him abuse him gratis : to be sure , i shan't oppose the charity , but advise him to prove himself the better christian by exercising it . but methinks it shows the mans fear , and that , his guilt , as his hope , the dukes goodness , and his diffidence in the invulnerableness of his own conscience . he would have something else to trust too . it is an odd thing to bespeak a mans sanctuary where he intends the wrong , and presume upon the goodness of the person to abuse him safely . he profoundly respects the duke , and yet makes him to keep , and be the champion of whiggism ; and then too , when every body else for fear or shame has forsaken her . i will end with this , that he that intitles a man to the sin , does his best to intitle him to the punishment too : which in my judgement shows a wild and an ill conscience in the answerer . his third paragraph p. . declares , his own belief is unavoidable , and his book , that they that don't avoid their own beliefs , to believe as he believes , are justly punishable ; and why ? because he believes as the church believes , that is by law establish'd . here 's the reason of his creed : and they that offer to have any better , are dangerous to the government , p. , , and . i think i don't wrong him with consequences ; the places import as much . there is little else in this paragraph , but that he has a mind to show his affectation and ignorence of french , by opinionatre , instead of opiniatrelé , and cautions us to take head of him , for he does not know , but he may be mad before he has done , at least freakish and unruly . he would place it to the infection of the dukes wit ; but his book proves he has escap'd the contagion . but in his fourth paragraph , p. , & . it wants , temperamentum ad pondus . if so , it shows the man light-headed ; for that which has pondus , will not be taken with that which has none . all true wit has weight ; for wit is an apt and strong expression of a thing , such as strikes our understanding truly and lively . i should take his praise and pleasure to be the best argument in his book against the duke , but that they are dissembled . 't is a kind of a civil way of taking leave , to be rude , ( all abuse is such : ) for to tell us , of his graces facetious pen , taking air , pleasant and wity reasonings ; in fine , the tarantula of his paper ( which is a fly , that makes folks dance and caper , ) as if the duke had written a farce , is idle . it may be the encomium of a play , but it makes an ill character for a religious essay . but this sticks in his stomach too , that noble cavaliers should trouble their heads with religion ; and who knows but he has reason , for 't were the way to make chaplains necessarily learned , or unnecessary and useless to their masters . he wonders as much at noble cavaliers writing of religion , as to see a blew apron knight correcting euclids elements . and yet i think they use to wear green ones that teach them . i thought he would allow it to nobles after mechanicks ; but this shows he is of the tribe of — , and has no charity for those that han't enough to believe in verbum ministri . i expect in the next book , the gentleman will plead his charter against such interlopers . but the duke hates ingrocers , and is too old to mend : 't is labour lost ; he is and will be the same d. of buckingham he was forty years agoe , in the point controverted . arguments drawn from selfish topicks and private interests , move slowly with men of large and generous minds . this is worse by half then praying in latine ▪ ( which he is against , p. ▪ ) if i were to be judge ; for men may learn that , but our nobility must not meddle in religion , though it seems they helpt to make ●is . however , he graciously allows this noble peers notions to be fine , and many of them natural and true , yet in a breath his ●onceptions are greatly to the disadvantage of religion , and why ? because the duke ( poor man ) had not attended their consequences ; which , of things natural and true , i had always thought there had been no danger . he concludes with a story of an airy gentleman of his acquaintance ( for he 's of that element ) that being prest with the consequences of his odd opinions , would cry , a pox upon consequences , i hate these consequences : vvho the story belongs to , the reader must judge : but if the answerer be not more inconsequent then the duke ; i will share in the blame , that for all him , had no share in the fault . in his next period pag. , . he looks like a man of the white apron ; and i think it as lawful for a blew one to talk of euclids elements , as for that to medle with religion ; and of the two , that spots least : he says , he will not read us an anatomical lecture upon his graces paper , nor curiously dissect every nerve and muscle . this is be like to excuse both his skill and courseness ; he was for shorter work , though it savour'd somewhat more of the butcher . from hence he shifts callings and turns cook , cousen-german to t'other ; and without so much as washing his hands , falls to talk of hashing of books , and serving them up with limon and anchovies . men use the metaphors of their calling and genius ; but he shows ill judgment : for an ass in a chair were as true painting , as this wit : that sauce in my opinion had done much better with a calves-head . and now he promises us his matter in a lump , and to say true , it looks as if it came out of the mine of confusion , gross enough . he first salutes the dukes method to confute the atheist , p. . and will not have the mutation of things in the world a reason against the eternity of it , no more than the dukes to render him not the same george duke of buckingham he was forty year ago . but in this the gentleman is short , and beside the cushion : for though i fancy the duke would say him many kind things to be the same he was forty years ago , yet because he is the same personality under mutations ; to conclude , the world may be eternal notwithstanding its proper revolutions , is a mighty non-sequitur . for it is to say , because a thing is , it must always be . i should rather think , that because the duke is a being of time , and once was not , and again will not be that george d. of buckingham he is , and therefore he suffers those mutations , we see him under : it is a good argument , that the revolutions we dayly see the world subject to , makes it , at least probable , that it is a being of time , that once was not , and again will not be the vvorld it is . in truth , there is no parity in his allution , and therefore his argument is fallacious ; for how does this follow , that the world may be eternal for all its changes , because george d. of b. is the same he was forty years since , notwithstanding his bodily mutations . i must return him his complement , which he , with less reason makes the duke , that his argum●nt is not too logical . a thing 's being the same , does not necessarily conclude it never had a beginning , and to be sure its mutation , be it but of accidents only , does not make its eternity more credible . if the duke were eternal , for all his change , it were a good argument that the world might be so too , under all its revolutions ; but that the dukes being that individual he was forty years ago , for all his mutations of body , should prove the world eternal , notwithstanding the changes of it , is as un-accountable as his poison of wit , p. . i take it to be a better way of arguing , that if the duke was born , grows old , and must die , though he be the same d. of b. he was forty years ago , the world , that feeds him , had a beginning , grows old , and will have an end , though it be the same in nature that it was five thousand years ago . and of this the daily mutation we see it subject to , are almost a demonstration . for all the productions of the world die , and all that are nourish'd of it end : it can neither give nor feed a life beyond time. and that it self should yet be immortal , that neither makes nor keeps any thing else so , is against that parity of reason , which we observe about all other things , and cannot refuse here . all productions are of the nature of the thing producing : and tho' it may reasonably be ordained by some superiour being , to entertain & nourish many generations of mankind , 't is incomprehensible that it self should be eternal , whose nature & powers we see so short & finite by the revolutions and mortality of the creatures they exert and feed . plain it is , upon our notion of creation , this dilemma vanishes , but upon production , it will remain . if it should be objected : but the world out lives man , and the creatures it produces ; and if the absurdity of the world 's being eternal , is taken from its productions not being like it self , why does not the world , such as it is , produce or feed a life as durable as its own ? i answer , that it differs mightily , men beget lives longer and shorter than their own , are they not therefore mortal ? or did they not beget them ? it is one thing to talk of mortal production out of an eternal being , and another thing to say that a temporal being should produce or nourish another less durable than it self : besides , the objection granting the question of the in-eternity of the world , it is easie to conceive that the supreme agent , whose wisdom and power made it , contriv'd that excellent fabrick , house or stage of life , more durable than that of any man or age , to entertain so many generations of mankind , as he design'd to inhabit and subsist in it . it lies much in the frame and constitution of the subject . men make clocks that go a week , a month , a year , seven years , and are out-liv●d by the works of their own hands . they may allow it to those of the supreem agent to survive them , without the necessity of their being eternal . but , argumentum ad hominem , the world cannot to him be mutable and eternal ; for 't is plain , that he allows impassibility ( which he knows , with philosophers , takes with it immutability ) to be an atribute of god , and that god only is eternal , p. . now i cannot apprehend why he refuses mutability to be an argument against eternity , or how the world may be eternal tho' mutable , when he argues that god is only impassible or immutable , because he is eternal . let him have a care of his airy gentlemans fate , p. . and yet if he be as much a school-man as he would have us believe , he must know that the argument the duke has advanc'd against the athiests , is celebrated by the schools . and tho' the apostles testimony is a begging of the question to an athiest , 't is doubtless orthodox with this person ; and he tells us , that the things that are seen , are temporal , and the fashion of this world passeth away . but for all this he fancies the duke has done little , and that he could do wonders against the athiest , and therefore , if he were to discourse him , he would press him with this dilemma . if the world be eternal , it must be the cause of its own existence , p. . and this he urges without mercy upon his athiest , and runs through all the consequences of it , with as much confidence and vanity as if he had first obliged the world with the knowledge of the secret ; and when all is done , it is better said by the duke , and with less exception , in the main question , p. . and to say true , it grows upon every common in the countrey . but with his leave , i take the dukes argument of the in-eternity of the world , from the mutability of it , to be much the better of the two ; for the absurbity of any thing being the cause or effect of its own existence , which this man says is the consequence of the worlds being eternal , being perhaps as applicable to one eternal as another , is no credit to his better way of discoursing an athiest , and proving a deity . for a thing to be the cause or effect of it self , is , in my poor opinion , not too logical and i am affraid , too near a kin to nonsense . his making the duke to hint at nothing else in proof of a god , is dis-ingenious ; for there is one thing mentioned , he takes no notice of , p. . for , says the duke , whether the world has been created out of nothing is not material to our purpose , because if a supream intelligent agent , has fram'd the world to be what it is , and has made us to be what we are , we ought as much to stand in awe of it , as if it had made both vs and the world out of nothing . which plainly imports thus much ; that though the matter of the world were eternal , that being whose vvisdom and power , dispos'd and fram'd it into the glorious and regular thing we all see it is , shew him to be what we call god , and vs that we should fear him ; which is best done by a sober and regular life , because that is most suitable to the law of our nature , and consequently the mind of the great workman . the built and skill then of the vvorld , thus proving the supreme intelligence , and at the same time , that he is the object of the adoration of his creatures , we are naturally brought to the dukes next point , too weakly opposed by his unweary answerer , viz. that man only of all other creatures , having had conceptions , at least suspicions of a deity and another world ; it is probable there is something nearer a kin to the nature of god in man , than in any other animal whatsoever , and that instinct of a deity ought to be our guide and director in choosing the best way for our religious worship of god. this is the passage the gentleman falls upon , and tells us p. , . that that is as fair a plea for the alcoron ; as the new testament for pythagoras's golden verses , as st. paul's epistles . but which way , he leaves us to guess ? and yet we shall not guess to say that pythagoras's golden verses are much nearer a kin to st. paul's epistles , than the alcoron to the new testament . for the one has great and excellent truths , without imposture ; the other not . and tho' less nobly descended , and of inferiour authority , so far as they are right , it is no dishonour to st. paul's epistles , that pythagoras writ truth , nor to the instinct that his verses are so far approved by it . and if this gentleman would but allow the duke the law , which is yet less than the courtesy of the learned , he knows how fruitful the doctrine of idea's is to the defence of the dukes instinct . to say true , it were enough to refer the reader to the dukes paper , and that of his answerer . the natural , plain , and easie deduction of the one from p. . to p. . the dis-ingenious citation , pervertion and confusion of the other throughout , will make him think i might have spar'd my self the pains of following him here . but that it may appear , beyond all doubt , let us hear him at large how well he grounds his exceptions . he says , if he be not mistaken , ( and that is modestly condition'd , ) his grace must mean humane reason , not regulated by any publick and politick reason of a community , but as every private man's reason dictates to him . and that then the duke has this consequence , that it is one of the greatest crimes a man can be guilty of , to force us to act or sin against that instinct of religion , and something a-kin to the sin against the h. ghost . for this doctrine , thus hash'd & drest by himself , he is angry with me ; and but that his grace is no minor , he should suspect the pensilvanian had tutor'd him with his quakeristical doctrine ; mighty civil to the duke , and very just to me. i am sorry the duke pays so dear for my acquaintance , and that i cannot have the honour to have such a pupil without a jeer upon his. the man might have nam'd me plainer if he had pleas'd , without fear of the fatal and murdering blow of scandalum magnatum , though not without great scandal . but in this we are both debtors to his singular goodness , that whosoever got the child , he resolves to be gossip ; and for that purpose has provided four names , which are these four ensuing consequences . first , that reason is the sole guide of every man's religion , tho' neither sole nor reason are any terms of the duke's doctrine , and that the d. excuses the omission of scripture because of the qualifications of the men his discourse was design'd too , that he might come close to their own natures and not beg the question . but in its due place he recommends christanity as the best religion , p. . and then to be sure he cannot neglect the scripture . his second consequence he pins upon the duke , is as just as the former . that divine revelation is not necessary to salvation ; when it is evidently the meaning of that part of the duke's discourse , that people use the light that god has given them to chuse themselves a religion by , and recommends the christian for the best . is it the way to deny reveal'd religion to press men to chuse , with the best skill they have , the christian , that is the truest revelation . certainly this man must be beside himself a little , or he could hardly be so much beside the matter . his third consequence is yet more dis-ingenious than the other ; for he makes the duke to say , that it is a most horrid sin to lead men out of the errours natural religion , and bare reason of necessity lead mens to , whose very essay was on purpose to lead natural men by the way of first principles to imbrace revealed religion . but is it , in good earnest ▪ a sin to lead men out of errours , because it is a sin to force men against their consciences ? what man can have a happier tallent than this : the very guift of consequences . to shift force for lead , and conscience for error , shews his to be invulnerable with a witness . in one he forges , & begs the question in the other : no man could be more dextrous at it : doubtless he will in a while be as much out of humour with consequences , as his airy gallant ; for no man can make worse . i must not perswade a man , because i must not f●●ce him ; i must not lead a man , because i must not drag and whip him ; in fine , i must not inform a man , because i must not knock him on the head . if this be the gentlemans leading . i shall have a care how i take him for a guide . there 's a sort of men , whose mercies are cruelties , and who with all their pretence to reveal'd religion , have not the justice & mercy of a poor benighted pagan . his last consequence he draws from the duke's position and deductions , is this , that men who believe a god , and follow the dictates of reason in his worship , may be saved in any , in all religions , provided they know no better . but how this consequence can with any justice be charged upon the duke , that so expresly , p. . prefers the christian religion , is past my skill . for unless he will make the duke , to say that no religion is necessary to salvation , when he writes to perswade people to have one , he must confess he makes the christian to be it , because he recommends that to our belief and practice ; confirming it to himself from the agreeableness of its doctrine with what he is prompted by his pious instinct to believe to be true . can a man then say with any conscience that is just , that the d. of b. thinks men may be saved in any and in all religions , when he first , makes religion necessary , and then tells us that in his conscience he believes the christian to be the true : as if his business had been to prophane , and not advance the true religion . and i cannot but wonder how this wild conception came in his head , so disagreeable to the duke's reason , instinct and deductions . if he had said , in any , or all perswasions , he had magnify'd the duke's charity , with this distinction , that men of sincerity in all perswasions may be saved , and not that men may shift perswasions for interest , and yet go to heaven : tho' if it were so , perhaps this doctor might have the better of the two by the notion ; hypocrisy being none of the dukes vice. but to say that men may be saved in any , or in all religions , is somewhat harsh upon the duke ; and yet if in all these religions , a man must be , a man that believes in god , and lives virtuously , and in modes of worship , knows no better , then the tradition of his fathers , it is hard to damn him ; and this gentleman must produce better authorties for his severity , before it will have credit with men of sense and bowels , now though this does not touch the dukes discourse any more then his charity , to admit that a dissenter , a roman catholick , a jew , a turk , an indian may be saved , let us see how well it may be supported . st. peter seems to have been of this mans mind in the preamble to the story of cornelius , act. . till better taught : and who knows what this man may be in time . of a truth i perceive ( says peter ) that god is no respecter of persons , but in every nation he that feareth him , and worketh righteousness , is accepted of him . this was a gentile , a roman , neither jew nor christian , yet devout , a just man , one fearing god ; and as such , with all , of all nations of the same quality , declared by this great apostle , accepted with god : so that it seems here is ( greatly doubtless against this gentleman's mind ) some acceptance for the poor men of the dukes instinct . well , but let us suppose them to be comparatively benighted , was not cornelius so too ? yet we see the consequence , he was accepted as he was ; and why , but because sincere , and he knew no better ? he stood the fairer for revealed religion ; this prepared him for it : nay , we are told by the same unquestionable authority , that in the times of ignorance , god winked . and such to be sure he thinks theirs are , and i think are like to be , for all him : for if i mistake not , the man is for the promise at home , let what will betide them abroad . if he can but sit under his own vine here , let the rore , the devil take the turk and all the rest for him . extraordinary itinerary calls are ceas'd ; for there 's extraordinary pains and perils in the case , and though he may love souls well , yet who shall pay him . well , but if god winks at the ignorant , must this man be so prying ? and if the judge of the whole earth will not be strict , ought he to turn inquisitor ? or must it be an hainous error because he says it , that men that fear god , and follow the dictates of reason in any religion , and know no better , may be saved ? most unjust then is his clamour , against the divinity of calvinists , as inhumane , p. . that damns men , p. . for not being better than they know how to be . but the man builds the things he destroys ; for he more than any body believes one of these three things ; first , that there is no such thing as salvation , or that men may be sav'd in the religion as it is by law establish'd in all countreys , or that men are bound to submit to the religion established by law , let the issue in t'other world be what it will : for that power he gives absolutely into the magistrates hand ; and who can be judge upon him ? the english of all which i take to be this , that men may be of any or all religions , but not in the same country , for fear of suffering for it ; but , cum furis romae romano vivete more . one after another , at rome a papist , at london a protestant , at constantinople a mahometan . this principle , so naturally his own , is the consequence of his malice upon the duke ; for he would have the d's deduction of the reasonableness of mens choosing their religion by the direction of that which in themselves is nearest a-kin to the nature of god , to imply , that for all that , men may be of any , and of all religions ; a pretty way to shift with all winds , and sail the compass round : but in this he has more than avenged the dukes quarrel upon himself ; for he cannot make himself more ridiculous then in attempting to make the duke so unreasonable . and he is just as fair to reason as he has been to the duke . for if he says true , a man may follow the dictates of it , and be of all religions too : such a gipsy is reason with him . and if you ask him , why reason is so prostitute a thing , that nothing comes amiss to her ; his answer is extraordinary , for ( says he ) it can never lead men to the knowledge of the belief of a trinity , the incarnation , death , passion , resurrection , ascention , or divinity of christ . ergo what ? ergo , it will bow to any else , though it be never so idle and extravagant . is not this sad work for a doctor . but if the dictates of reason will fall in with any religion , they may embrace the christian as well as another , and then he 's gone again . he will certainly hate consequences too , when he has but thought of his own , that so inevitably attended his conceptions to the disadvantage of religion . but the dukes instinct , or that which god has placed in our hearts , so near a-kin to the nature of god , he says , must be reason , and that reason he makes an arrant strumpet ; for he assures us , she is a prolifick parent of idolatry , superstition , will-worship , and a thousand absurdities more in religion , and quotes all times , places , and ages for proof , p. . but as it happens , names not one of them to the point asserted . now the little skill i have in books , tells me quite other things to the tale of this answerer : that superstition and idolatry are the most unreasonable things in the world , that they could never bribe her in any time , and till sensuality had darkened and over-laid mens reason , it was impossible for superstition and idolatry to obtain that empire , that in prejudice of reason , they have at any time got upon the belief of any part of mankind . and if we will be just to ethnick ages , we find men among them of extraordinary light ; that , as having no law , became a law unto themselves , and that were of the vncircumcision that kept the law , as the apostle of the gentiles speaks . such was pythagoras , anaxagoras , socrates , plato , xenocrates , plotin , antipater , zeno , epicteius , seneca , plutarch , cato , cicero and others . and to be free with the dukes undertaker , i take old plutarch to be much a better christian , who calls this instinct , the everlasting foundation of virtue . a law written , not in pillars of wood or stone , but in the hearts of men . but that he may meet with some rebuke ; for much is owing him on this account ; i shall take upon me to examine his imputations , be it upon this instinct , or be that , reason , i will not quarrel the word . i do say then , that he must either deny that god hath plac'd any such thing in man , to distinguish him from other animals ; or if that be true , he is to chuse his religion without consulting it . if the first , he makes us all beasts and himself an atheist ; if the last , our religion is in ▪ evident , we know not what , for we are not to take the judgment of the divine gift in our election : what a religion must that be ? if his argument were true , here would be indeed as fair a plea for the alcoran as the new testament . but it were blasphemous so to speak of the dukes instinct for it is that notion of god which is innate , and as it were congeneal to us : we bring it with us into the world. the peculiar seal and mark of divinity : a kind of counter ▪ part of himself in man ; his picture in little : the attributes that are infinite in him , being here epitomiz'd and resembled in man , that by it he may have a right knowledge of his cretor , and sense of his duty . antiquity offers a cloud of witnesses both pagan and christian . justin martyr , clemens alexandrinus and origen exceed . but the opposition is too mean to draw out so great an artillery ; it will be time enough when a greater force appears to assault so venerable a truth : and in the mean time i will attend him in his exceptions , such as they are . but perhaps he will excuse himself , because he does not certainly know what the duke means by that part of us which is nearest a kin to the nature of god. for he says . if he be not mistaken , it must be reason . but if i be not mistaken , he had better have known first , and not have drawn positive conclusions from doubted premisses . but suppose the duke understands reason by that instinct , rather than a divine gift to guide our reason and understanding ; will reason plead the cause of the alcoran as soon as that of the new testament ? vvhat has god done then to make us reasonable ? i had thought that the new testament had been a more reasonable book , and that god almighty had not made man so deceivable a creature , or fram'd him with such false intellects ; and submitted him to such dangerous errors . and though he might have made him feeble , yet not so squint-ey'd or tender-sighted that he could not see straight , or tell colours , or distinguish an alcoran from the new testament . i pray , is the alcoran as credible as christ's sermons upon the mount , to the multitude , to his disciples ? vvherein we find the most excellent morality , piety , and purity of discipline ; so suitable to our understandings , that they seem to answer the perfection of reason ? i know he will tell us he means it of revealed religion , as he does , p. . reason ( says he ) can never lead us to the knowledge of the belief of the trinity , resurrection , ascention , or divinity of the son of god. to be led to the knowledge of the belief of any thing , is odly said ; but let it pass : however , there is a difference between miracles and fables ; arrant poperies and fictions ; so ill counterfeited too , that a man of small sight must needs discern them . tradition , and prejudic'd education indeed give credit often to such things ; but reason does not chuse , but is overborn : besides , we have as good authority for our saviours miracles , as for any thing we did not see : of mahomets we have not the like ; and this is further to be said , if reason cannot work them , it never opposed them : on the contrary , it leads us to believe them , and revealed religion for their sakes ; for a man must be a hogg to oppose himself to so over-coming an evidence , in lieu of a man that is led by reason . it seems to me as if this gentleman dare not venture his religion with reason , that opposes reason to religion . the new testament is so far from refusing reason any share in our christianity , that it is made a duty to us to give a reason of our christian hope , pet. . . and it were absurd to give a reason for that which a man receives without reason , and is impossible to receive by it , or for reason to apprehend ; and if it could , it judges so ill , that it will as soon prostrate it self to the alcoran as to the new testament . but this is not all the dukes fault , perhaps he would go a great way to yield him his point , if he did but mean political reason , or reason regulated by a community . this he explains , p. . for his community is the government : but had not this been a fine receit to keep christianity out of all countries ? for had this reason of community prevailed , there had been neither christians nor protestants . without racking a syllable of his excellent argument ; i think i may say , it pleads as much for the alcoran as the new testament , and more in turkey ; for if the political reason of the community of a country is still to conclude those that dwell in it ; turks , must be turks , infidels , must be infidels , idolators , must be idolators still : in which also i perceive he is a republican , after all his railing at commonwealths-men : for the community over all causes , with him , judges . i don't know but it may run as far as exclusion too : to be sure it would , if all had agreed ; for all measures of right or wrong , true or false , are by my man humbly submitted to the political reason of the community ; what is this but to say ; that every religion is best where it is establish'd , though the most disagreeing among themselves , and any or all of them with the true ? nor is this the extent of the dukes errour , he is not only for reason , guiding and choosing , but he would have every private mans reason dictate for himself . this is a pestiferous doctrine in the answerers account ; and yet should a man chuse without himself , for himself , he must certainly be beside himself . who should choose for a man but himself , if he must answer for himself ? it would certainly be most unreasonable to judge a man for a thing he is not allow'd the liberty of his choice in : nor do i think a man can have any reason to render for his religion , that receives his religion without the suffrage of his own reason . has our bodies eyes , and our souls none ? shall our temporal part act upon sight , and our eternal upon trust , and that not of god , but of man ? that when the poor labourer will be judge of his pay , and not trust his very minister about the currentness of a groat , we should be left without distinction about that treasure , which is of eternal moment to us : surely then , understandings are of no use in heaven : but i know not how to believe it . to be a child in malice is excellent ; but under favour , in understanding , not . to trust out our souls upon humane say-so's , is to go into coates again ; and to be sure , a childs coat , is a fools , upon a mans back . let them wear bibs that slabber , and the blind follow the dog and the bell. in religion , authority concludes minors ; but conviction determines men. that this gentleman should pretend to protestancy , and rail at a mans judging for himself , is absurd . if the reason of the community must guide , let him not be so angry with the romanists for saying , believe as the church believes ; when he says , believe as the state requires : the one presses conformity as by the catholick church establish'd ; the other cryes as by law establish'd ; a doctrine calculated to all meridians . i fear he grants too much for the quarrel , but let him look to that : for the one pre-supposes the holy ghost to conduct , to justify the determination ; the other scorns her words , but won't bate one jot of conformity . i shall only tell him , that taking the translation of the bible to have been an appeal to the people , made by the first reformers , against the church they dissented from ; if as this man suggests the english of reading it now , be , that we must not make any judgment to our selves of what we read , the appeal cannot be determined , and our case is not mended ; on the contrary , it is made a temptation of trouble and mischief to us : for , whereas the inspir'd doctor tells us , that in religious matters , we are to be perswaded in our own minds that they commended themselves and doctrines to mens consciences , so making them judges for themselves . that conscience accuses and excuses , ay , our own hearts , that all are to walk as they have received , and not usurp a judging power over our fellow christians faith or liberty ; we are told now , that all our faith and worship must be submitted to the political reason of the community , we are of , hit or miss . i take this to be leaping blind fold into t'other world in matters of salvation . but it may be , he will tell me , that he has nothing to say against reason consider'd in its purity , and un-deprav'd , only , that it cannot lead us to the knowledge of revealed religion ; and he says as much , p. . but this will not do , or else do worse then before ; for if by reason he means a reasonable capacity , he does not mean as the duke means , and says , and then he is mistaken indeed in what his grace calls that part of us that is nearest a kin to the nature of god , to wit , his instinct in us , and is understood by this noble peer to be the guide and director of our understandings in our choice , and , which gives the rectitude and true judgment . on the other hand , if he understands reason abstractly , and as the principle it self ; it can no more be deprav'd , then the sun darkn'd by the mists and vapours of the earth . and truly it is just as reasonable to accuse the law of moses with the death of our saviour , and the gospel with the errors and impieties of christians , as to charge to the account of reason all the ill things , that men pretending to it , have committed . and yet to do the worst of them right , the most idolatrous , unnatural and senseless rites the darkest ages of the world ever had , they have discharg'd their reason , and plac'd them , in all times , to the unaccountable tradition and authority of their priesthood : where , 〈◊〉 this time , i will leave them too : only i must needs say , i wish the dust this man has so vehemently rais'd upon reason , be not to put out our eyes too , that we may be less resty , and lead better . for if such men once get us out of our depth , we are gone . trust thick and three-fold . and the more un-intelligable , the more venerable , this will be the maxim. but if i may , i would wonder for all that , how after all , he can so expresly contradict himself , as p. . to allow reason to judge , and p. . to send his readers thither to convince others of their duty both in their spiritual and civil capacity . he must have relented him mightily , or having been in a fit , is come to himself , or else his own reason has had the wind , and is too many for his perjudices , or he could not have given himself so quickly so great a reprimand ; but this shews the nature and power of reason , that it will rise to its own evidence and vindication , even in the most unreasonable men. but this author tells the world , that granting the duke to have carried his postulatum of the being of a supream and perfect power , he would have followed his blow at another rate , and sent his reader another road , which shews the duke's little , and his better skill and courage ; tho' he might have been so modest as to let us have been the judges of that : he did not catch this of his grace's pen. and pray what would he have done ? why , after a flood of words ( and that is all . ) he tells us , that he would have sent them to the scriptures . and by this , one would think that the man had never read the book he pretends to answer ; for that noble peer expresly tells us in the beginning of his discourse , that he has to do with men that deny their authority , and therefore to use it to prove what he asserts , were to begg the question . and i do assure him , so soon as he had gain'd the postulatum of the being a supream and perfect power , he recommends them to the christian religion , of which i had always understood till now , the scriptures had been the creed . well , but in case of doubtful places he has an interpreter , a judge for him at hand too , and that is the society of christians ; why could not he as well have said the church ; and then have told us which church ; for there is not one of a douzen that don't alledge the text for their authority . but to do him right , he has given us a rule to know her by ; he takes it , ( good protestant ) from vincentius lirinensis , and a golden one it is , he assures us ; but for all that , i fancy it has an iron rod at the tail for him . 't is this , quodubique quod semper , quod ab omnibus , id vere quidem catholicum est , and that this would have shewn the duke a thousand errors , p. ▪ now , methinks , out of meer pity , i am not willing to allow his rule ; for if i should , first this showing rule , will infallibly shew him , that the duk●s instinct and the pensilvanian's doctrine , ( to his unspeakable grief , ) has the hope to be establish'd by it . for there is nothing more antient , more universal , more constantly credited , at all times , in all places , by all nations , then a divine instinct in the natures of men : and then , if this attempt upon the duke has not been unreasonable , as to the pensilvanian , an honour as much above his hope , as his adversary's intentions , let him judge . my second reason of unwillingness is this , he says , p. . this rule would have taught the duke to avoid the cruel divinity of calvinists which his grace lashes with so much truth and justice : where , besides the non-sence of teaching a man to dislike a thing , he already is allow'd to have lasht with justice , he confirms the judgment of his instinct , by which , he was lead to lash that doctrine , for a golden rule . but lastly , as he has establish'd the thing he would overthrow , so it 's to be fear'd , he has overthrown the thing he would establish ; and would not a well ▪ natured man be sorry for that . for most evident it is that the church of england is not every where , there 's for his vbiques : and some tell us , that she was not always what she is , there 's for his semper : and that every body is not of her communion , this gentlemans invectives against dissenters , iprove the roman church , charges novelty ; she flies to scr●pture ; the roman church disputes the sense , the church of england appeals to the first doctors of the church ; the romanists to the sense of the church upon the doctors . now says he , the society of christians must be judge . p . not the few that seperate from the many ; for then they will be judge in their own cause , and the dissenters at home will expect the same priviledge ; if the church they dissent from , they are gone ; if the scripture , 't is the subject to be judge . this must issue therefore , or in no judge , or in an external judge , or in an internal judge . if no judge , we are left without decision till the last judgment . if an external judge , it must either be the church or civil government . if the church , the romanists think they carry it . if the civil government , to be sure the church of england has it here . if lastly , an internal judge , that every man should try , fast , and examine for himself , the dukes instinct , ( much against this gentleman's mind ) will come in for a share in the choice of a man 's own religion , and that within the rule too . the next point he falls upon , is the dukes maxim about persecution ; he does not think it antichristian at home , but the duke under a mistake of the reason , nature , and necessity of those humane laws dissenters are prosecuted by . p. . and upon this he bestows eight pages , which in a lump , comes to thus much . that though he allows punishing the professors of a true religion , purely for religion , ( living otherwise inoffencively to the civil government ) is persecution , and truly antichristian , which was the primitive christians case under the heathen emperours of rome ; yet the laws against papists and dissenters are out of a political , not religious necessity to secure the peace and safety of the government ; and if this be antichristian , the whole world , all ages , times , governments , and governors must have been , and are antichristian , and it turns his admiration into wonder , that his grace should be of this mind that had his share in passing those laws . i perceive his dis ▪ ingenuity continues to the duke . for besides that , he loves wondering , he might know that the dukes share was to vote against them , and so that he did not espouse tolleration a cast mistress ; the dukes discourse relates to men of ●onscience , not rebellion ; and to conclude , more or less than the question contains , is not fair or sound , the duke says , 't is antichristian to persecute : his answerer says 't is truly so of the true religion ; and pray where does the duke say it , of the false ? but i am ready to think that if persecution in all the world , were stopt , till that were determin'd , we should at least gain one age of peace : and to have any of it before , is , at least in this author , unaccountable , and a begging of the question . but he would not have danger ensue to government , and therefore draws upon the duke this un-natural consequ●nce ; that the whole world , and all governments and governors are antichristian ; whilst that noble peer meddles not with government , nor solicits freedom for them that di●turb it . he declares himself for mens having liberty to worsh●p god according to their perswasion , and the reason of it . if men will call consciene this plea is no shelter ; currat ●ex . his argument is safe : the consequence is the partial application of h●s answerer . the duke thinks perhaps , 't were m●re easie and honourable to let ill men not have that to say against good government , you trouble us for our consciences , since in its self , there is no real and proper overt-act of sedition , meerly in performing a differing sort of worship ; and that there are , or may be laws enough provided to secure the state from those civil disorders ▪ that any such man might attempt under that pretence . here , such people would not only justly suffer , but without a cover too : the disgrace and odium , in the opinion of all , as well as penalty , falling only upon the criminals head . i do with the last duty and defference a man can bear to his king and countrey , wish and pray for their prosperty : i would by no means that any man should be indulg'd to their detriment : i should besides my civil obligations , cancel those of conscience before almighty god , if i thought it ; but i cannot prevail with my self , to believe that the government may not be safe by some civil provision , with the most suspected dissenter : else 't were past a scruple with me that his liberty should at all times purchase the publick safety . this gentleman allows all dissenters may not be guilty ; if so , it must be a dangerous execution ; especially when the justice of our humane laws had rather an hundred criminals should escape , then that one innocent should perish . but he says , he has not momus ' s windows to see , and know them by . i am sure he has too much of his mind , or he had not troubled the world with such a bundle of exceptions : but if he can't distinguish them , will that excuse his destroying them ? i am sorry this gentleman's divinity has no more bowels , nor better sence ; for if mankind be left without the knowledge of guilt from innocence , they must punish in the lump ; they must be unjust . this is judging without overt acts ; by guess and jealousy . a way that may make an innocent guilty , and a guilty person innocent . to be cast without evidence is wrong , and what witness is there of that which is only in foro conscientiae ? then what judge ? a piece of cruel enthusiasm . i know not what to call it . not only christianity , but gamaliel ; ay , our own laws would have taught him a better way of finding out criminals , yet his excels . well , but the laws against papists , ( he says ) are occasioned from their vnchristian machinations and king-killing doctrine , able to ruine the whole earth , and lay the foundations of eternal mischief to mankind ; and for those against dissenters , they were made , because of their rebellious , excluding , covenanting , associating , murdering principles . p. . . . . now though this man would think it imprudent in me , and i , that it is none of my business , to vindicate the persons charged from his imputations ; yet i have so much justice , i confess , as not to condemn parties by particulars , and charity as to be satisfied with their solemn disclaimings of such practices : for i did never love that one man should have the making of another mans faith or confession , especially if he were his adversary . i must tell him also , i cannot admire his wisdom , manners , or justice , in his reflection upon the roman catholicks , after the assurances that so great an one of their communion has given him and his friends of their security and protection : for if they are a people able to ruine the whole earth , and lay the foundations of eternal mischief to mankind ; believe me , england is in an ill pickle , and tho' i am an ill judge , he has in it put but a scurvy complement upon the king. but if by the kings promise p. . he means that the king is to destroy the men of his own faith , to support and secure theirs ; i shall only admire , first his understanstanding , and next his charity . for dissenters , i shall say no more , than that it may be , the wars made them , rather than they made the wars , and that things older than the act of oblivion , are in law , buried by it . and with submission , this gentlemans conscience , for ought i know , might have done as well to let them alone . for the late occasion he takes , let him be just , and he will find the excluders , almost , every sunday at their parish churches : and if three quarters of them were to pray for their lives , it may be they could better read their clergy , then say their prayers without the publick liturgy . what follows ? shall i recriminate the usuage of the late king about the declaration of indulgence ? and say , that some men lov'd him well for their own ends ? and that when they were not humour'd exactly , they would pout , slack their loyalty , and grow passive , let things go as they will for them : a thing almost threaten'd by this loyal gentleman , p. . may not this be aggravated , and with as many harsh words , by a man of words and no charity ? but i would be modest ▪ and that not of prudence , but choice , for i hope he would give his replicant the liberty he expects , and takes with the great peer he answers . and i must say i cannot but extreamly admire , that less than twelve lines , so softly dropt by the duke in favour of liberty of conscience , should have almost as many leaves of little invectives to answer them . believe me , it impeaches his pretences to christianity , and renders him to have more of the fire brand than of the loyal subject . i should end here ; but there are two things more i think must be mentioned , that nothing carrying any pretense to weight may be omitted . first , that the reason of the penal laws is purely political and not spiritual , to obviate the overt-acts , acts of treason and rebellion ; for a man may be of any religion to himself ▪ and privately exercise it too , not exceeding such a number above their families . secondly , that tolleration is the way to overthrow religion , and with it the government , especially as now established ; and is a fatal enemy to monarchy . to the first , i say , fact must rule us ; i would desire to know if the act of vniformity , printed with the liturgy , be purely political and not spiritual ? i hope , without offence i may say , it is not . the laws of the , and th . of the queen , requiring people to come to church , will not let people be of any religion to themselves ; for unless they are , at least once a month at divine service , and show , to joyn in the publ●ck worship , by law establish'd , he pays twenty pounds monthly , and has two thirds of his real estate expos'd to sequestration . and this is done in one place or another every day . so that it is not true in fact , that people may have any religion to themselves ; because , both those that keep home , and within the number allow'd by the act against conventicles , and those that exceed it , are notwithstanding presented upon the former statutes of the queen ; nay , i have known some persons prosecuted by them all , at one and the same time . and , with all due respect to the wisdom of our former legislators , if this gentlemans gloss be true , i think improprieties should no more have been enacted , then impossibilities or contradictions . to make a man dangerous to the state , for not going to church ; or a breaker of the peace , for being at a meeting of a hundred people , when their persons were naked their entertainment meer devotion , and their behaviour very quiet and innoffensive , sounds in the use of words , very harsh . it puts me in mind of a wity passage of the lord ●hancellor hyde , when the bill prohibiting the importation of irish cattle was read in the lords-house , hearing it stiled a nusance ; pray , ( says he ) let it for this time be called adultery , for one word is just as fit as t'other . inadiquate and unsuited expressions are oftentimes of dangerous consequence . no man knows where the practice may stop . religion should sweeten and humble the spirits of men , abate their passions and ex●ite their obedience to their superiors . and it is one of the strangest things in the world that greater numbers may meet on twenty other occasions every day , with less fear of the breach of the peace . as that religion cannot be good that makes any man the worse for having it : so i am not for beheading any thing before it is born , or punishing people for fear of what they may do . i would hope the best , and that if they had that freedom they desire in the exercise of their religious perswasion , their condition would teach their wit , it were too good to hazard , that if their duty or gratitude did not oblige them , their very interest must ; and there is hardly one of them so stupid , as not to understand and pursue the ways that preserve it . for that of colleration , it is my opinion , he does ill to distinguish it from liberty of conscience ; for if he mean the same thing , it needed not have had a fresh head with other consequences ; nor was it requisite that i did further consider it . and i am heartily sorry , i must say , that to the end of his answer he hardly fails of his usual way of construction : for after having made tolleration as ill a thing as he could , and as such , the duke to be the patron of it ; he falls on with a whole volly of hard words , asking the duke , p. , , ▪ if he would give tolleration to a rebellious , associating , sanguinary , inhumane , blasphemous , murdering conscience , such as that of calvanists , that decrees damnation without free conditions ; kill'd his master , father and brother , and that particularly used him so ill . but this is so far from determining , that in ill language it miserably begs the question , by the reflection of false and scandalous consequences , upon what the duke said in favour of indulgence . is there no such thing as conscience , because it may be falsly pretended ? or shall a sober and moral conscience be deny'd indulgence , because some or other may , or do misuse it ? and that he may have something to think on ; i ask if those calamities were the effects of a tolleration ? if so , pray when was there one to do us so much mischief ? the difficulty , i know , he will have to find one , makes me ask him another question : if ease to men in that respect , were not the way of greatest safety to the publick , at least , fit to be tryed . i must say , this gentleman takes too many things for granted , and needs a very merciful adversary : one that will do less then not exact the uttermost farthing , though he himself will reap where he hath not sown , and compel conformity where he cannot convince . the very point , he says , his grace has with so much justice lasht the calvinists for , and that he himself did but just now call inhumane and blaspemous . good-nature with all that little prudence that falls to my share , makes it easier to me to believe that a christian tolleration were the best way to prevent the mischiefs that are said to be the effects of it . i say , by all means secure the government ; but withall , pray let us see if that may not be done , by some other and easier method : it is pity that it should cost the liberties or estates of so vast a people as do dissent , and , i would hope , without so much as an ill thought to the king or his government . but he is so in love with the chase , that without any more to do , he sends us to the french king , p. . to take measures for england in point of religion : which is pretty well for an english-man and a protestant , and perhaps a doctor too . this in any man had not been well , but in an english protestant , with his leave , is impious , since it is to draw that kings severity into example , and render it a prudence to be imitated here . a notion , he has taught me to call , in him , atheistical , because it cannot be done by a protestant , whose conscience , as he says , will not let him be of any , and of all religions . this yields little consolation to the french protestants : and if he would but think well upon it , not too much to the english church ; for if he says true , that lewis the fourteenth does well to compel an vnion of his subjects in his own religion ; he has recommended a policy that goes a great way to discharge the king of his promise , and make us all of his : i don't know whether coleman's letters say so much as this , that were made the proof of the plot. this may make roman catholicks amends for p. , , . to conclude , he is so fond of the instance , that he appeals to crowned-heads in general ; if a tolleration be not inconsistent with their safety . a man had need be well assured , at least as far as an invulnerable conscience , to try his appeal , but that i am , and therefore joyn issue with him ; submitting with all my heart , to their royal evidence in the decision of the point : but because it requires more room then agrees with the success of this reply , in an age that loves not length ; i have chosen to make it a discourse of it self , and refer him thither : the title , a perswasive to moderation : and shall conclude this with the wise and christian judgment of king charles the first , in his advice to the late king. take head ( says he ) of abe●●ng any factions , your partial adhering to any one side , gains you not so great advantages in some mens hearts , who are prone to be of their kings religion , as it looseth you in others ; who think themselves and their profession , first dispised , and then persecuted by you. a christian tolleration often dissipates their strength , whom rougher opposi●ion fortifies . this was the councel of a crowned head : the judgment of his adversity : always the soundest : resentments could not blind it , nor revenge of wrongs , precipitate it . in which , he acted the christian prince , and not the amilcar . let us then remember his councel with his afflictions , and the one the more endear the other to us ; least we despise some of the best fruit of the autumn of his life , to wit , his wisdom and goodness , that the gusts of time and troubles he lay under did not shake ; and which he has recommended to us for a guide in future times , to prevent them . finis . some modest and humble queries concerning a printed paper, intituled, an ordinance presented to the honourable house of commons, &c. for the preventing of the growing and spreading of heresies, &c. goodwin, john, ?- . this text is an enriched version of the tcp digital transcription a of text r in the english short title catalog (thomason e _ ). textual changes and metadata enrichments aim at making the text more computationally tractable, easier to read, and suitable for network-based collaborative curation by amateur and professional end users from many walks of life. the text has been tokenized and linguistically annotated with morphadorner. the annotation includes standard spellings that support the display of a text in a standardized format that preserves archaic forms ('loveth', 'seekest'). textual changes aim at restoring the text the author or stationer meant to publish. this text has not been fully proofread approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. earlyprint project evanston,il, notre dame, in, st. louis, mo a wing g thomason e _ estc r this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (thomason tracts ; :e [ ]) some modest and humble queries concerning a printed paper, intituled, an ordinance presented to the honourable house of commons, &c. for the preventing of the growing and spreading of heresies, &c. goodwin, john, ?- . [ ], , - p. printed by matthew simmons for henry overton, and are to be sold in popes-head alley, london, : . "published by authoritie." attributed to john goodwin by wing. text is continuous despite pagination. a reply to: bacon, nathaniel, and taet, mr. an ordinance presented to the honourable house of commons (wing b ). annotation on thomason copy: " ber [i.e. september] ". reproduction of the original in the british library. eng bacon, nathaniel, - . -- ordinance presented to the honourable house of commons. taet, -- mr. -- ordinance presented to the honourable house of commons. church of england -- discipline -- early works to . heresy -- early works to . heresies, christian -- england -- early works to . religious tolerance -- england -- early works to . great britain -- church history -- th century. a r (thomason e _ ). civilwar no some modest and humble queries concerning a printed paper, intituled, an ordinance presented to the honourable house of commons, &c. for the goodwin, john d the rate of defects per , words puts this text in the d category of texts with between and defects per , words. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - apex covantage keyed and coded from proquest page images - elspeth healey sampled and proofread - elspeth healey text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion some modest and humble qveries concerning a printed paper , intituled , an ordinance presented to the honourable house of commons , &c. for the preventing of the growing and spreading of heresies ▪ &c ▪ rom. . . let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind . isa. . . therefore is judgement farre from us , neither doth justice over ●ake us : we waite for light , but behold obscurity , &c. job . . . who is this that darkneth counsell by words without knowlege ? hos. . . heare ye this , o priests , and hearken ye house of israel — for judgement is towards you ; because you have been a snare on mispah , and a net spred upon tabor , hos. . . the watchman of ephraim was with my god : but the prophet is the snare of a fowler in all his wayes , and hatred in the house of his god . quid prodest habere zelum dei , & non-habere scientiam dei ? orig. quid ergo saviunt , ut stulticiam suam dum minuere volunt , augeant ? longe diversa 〈◊〉 carn●●●●… & pietas — defendenda religio est ▪ non occidendo , sed moriendo ; non savitiâ , sed patientiâ . non scelere , sed 〈◊〉 illa enim malorum sunt , haec bonorum . lactant. de iust. c. lib. cap. . omnis lex debet 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 suae equitatis . calv. published by authoritie . london ▪ printed by matthew simmons for henry overton , and are to be sold in popes-head alley , . to the reader . being accidentally encountred by a vagrant ▪ paper , printed though without authority , yet with this inscription ; an ordinance presented to the honourable house of commons , &c ▪ and conceiving partly by the frame and spirit of the discourse , partly from some un-clerk-like expressions in it , that certainly those worthy gentlemen , whose names are specified in the said inscription , were more or lesse wronged by the publishing and spreading of it under their names ; and that it was some other spirit that breathed in it , not theirs ; i supposed that possibly i might doe the said gentlemen some right , by a proposall of some queries upon occasion of some particularities in it , by meanes whereof they may the better consider , in case it relates to them either in whole , or in part , whether it be not unworthy of them ; or whether , and to what degree those have injured them , who issued the said undeserving papar with such a badge of honour upon it , as the two names of two such well-deserving men . queries about the ordinance . whether it be agreeable to the spirit of christ , ( who came into the world , as himself saith not to destroy mens lives , but to save them a , ) to make snares of any of his doctrines for the destruction of the lives of men ? whether it be agreeable to the mind of christ , for men to inflict the heavie censure of death upon their brethren , for holding forth such doctrines , or opinions in religion , suppose contrary to admonition , which , for ought the said inflicters know , except they make themselves infallible , may be the sacred truths of god ? whether it be agreeable to the will of christ , for civill magistrates to compell men , upon paine of death , to call them rabbi , or masters , when as he hath so expressely charged men , yea ▪ his apostles themselves as well as others , not to be called rabbi , or masters b ▪ or whether to injoyne and compell men ( especially upon the penaltie of death , ) to preach and teach in many the most weighty and difficult points of religion , nothing but the dictates of their owne judgments and wills , be not much more then simply to be called rabbi , or masters , i. then simply to connive at , & comply with those , who professe in all things to submit their judgements and consciences unto them ? yea , whether is it not , to threaten men , and that in the ●orest manner of all other , if they will not call them rabbi , or masters , i. if they will not sin against the commandement of christ ? whether is it christian to maintaine that religion , by putting others to death , which ( as lactantius saith ) men ought to defend , non occidendo , sed moriendo , i. not by slaying others , but by dying our selves for it ? whether is it not evident from tertullian , lactantius , and other ancient and authentick writers , that the idolatrous heathen sought to maintaine their idolatrous religions , by the same stratagems ▪ methods , and wayes , which the said ordinance proposeth , for maintaining the religion of christ ? whether our best records of later times doe not cleerely shew , that the papacy , and antichristian party in the world , have still gone about to uphold that false and abominable religion , which they professe , by those very shores and props , wherewith the ordinance we speake of seeks to support the true religion of christ ? whether are errours and heresies any other things ; then some of those strong holds and imaginations in men , which ( as the apostle saith ) exalt themselves against the knowledge of god a ? or whether can they be better throwne downe then by those weapons ▪ which ( as the same apostle speaketh ) are mighty through god ▪ for that very purpose ? and whether are these weapons carnall , or spirituall ? whether to injoyn ministers or others upon pain of death , imprisonment , &c. not to teach or maintaine any thing , in many the greatest and most weighty points in religion , contrary to the present sense and apprehensions of the said injoyners , being but few in number , ( comparatively ) be not to quench proceedings ; and to say ( in effect ) unto the holy ghost , reveale nothing more unto others , then thou hast revealed unto us ; or rather thus ; if thou hast not revealed the truth unto us , reveale it not unto any other men ? whether they , who inflict the heavie sentence of death upon men , for maintaining an opinion or doctrine contrary to their sense and interpretation of a scripture , one or more , had not need be as infallible in their judgements , ( at least as touching the sense and meaning of all such scriptures ) as god himself ? whether did luther ( with divers other worthy assertors of the truth in his dayes against the papists ) deserve death , imprisonment , &c. for maintaining , and that publiquely , and against frequent admonition , by zuinglius , calvin , &c. the erroneous opinion of consubstantiation ; an error farre more grosse and dangerous then many particulariz'd in the ordinance ; besides many others not inferior in evill unto this , as concerning free-will , election & c ? whether did calvin deserve either imprisonment or death , for , teaching and maintaining publiquely by writing , that the observation of the lords day , as it is injoyned by the ordinances and lawes of this realme , is not according to the word of god ? whether doth a minister , in case that in the performance of his office in preaching the gospel , he shall mistake the mind of christ , or the true sense of a scripture , one or more , cited , & interpreted by him according to the best light which god hath given him , deserve either death or imprisonment , for his mistake ? or whether many of the opinions made liable hereunto by the ordinance , be constructively , any thing moe , or of any worse demerit , then a mistake , or misunderstanding of some scriptures ? whether a mistake in judgement , ( as suppose a man verily and in the simplicitie of his heart , judgeth that infants ought not to be baptized , or that presbytery is unlawfull , or the like ) joyned with a publique and free profession of his judgement in this kinde , be more sinfull , or more deserving imprisonment , death , &c. then an open and manifest deniall in works , of such truths , which yet men professe in words ; as when men professe that they beleeve jesus to be the son of god , and that the scriptures are the word of god , &c. and yet live loosly , prophanely , in drunkennesse , riot , &c. or whether the ordinance maketh not the former denialls , which at most are but of truths very questionable and obscure , yea and but of inferior consequence neither ( at least comparatively ) punishable by imprisonment or death ; whereas it inflicts no censure at all upon these latter denialls ( except it be in the case of blasphemy ) which are every whit as full & publique as the other , yea and of truths both more generally received , and farre more easie to be proved ; yea and of a far greater and more formidable consequence , then those other ? whether ministers , truly faithfull and conscientious , being fully perswaded in their soules and consciences , that many of the opinions asserted in the ordinance for truths , yet are not such , but errors ( of wch perswasion there are many such ministers in england ) shall doe well to comply with the ordinance , ( so called ) against their judgements ; and publiquely hold forth to the people those things for truths , which they are absolutely perswaded in their judgements , to be nothing lesse ? or whether the said ordinance , threatening them with imprisonment or death , in case they shall declare themselves otherwise , be not a dangerous temptation upon them , to draw their foot into that snare of death ? whether , the publicke holding of any such opinion , which according to the doctrine of the apostles themselves , deserves not excommunication from , or by a christian church , may yet deserve imprisonment , or a cutting off by death , by the civil magistrate ? or are they , who are meete and worthy to live and converse as members in a church of christ , unworthy so much as to live in a politique or civill state ? or were there not in the church of corinth , ( yea and in other churches besides in the apostles dayes ) who publiquely held some opinions of farre worse consequence , then very many of those , which the said ordinance censureth , either with imprisonment , or with death ; of whose excommunication , notwithstanding the apostle is silent , even then when he argueth against , and condemneth their errors . yea doth he not intreat them graciously , notwithstanding the danger of their error , calling them beloved brethren a & admonisheth them to take heed of being deceived ; to be stedfast & unmoveable ? &c. whether is it not very possible , that persons , who may hold , and upon occasion publiquely maintaine , many of the opinions condemned as errors , by the ordinance , may yet be as full of grace and goodnesse , as precious in the sight of god , as fruitfull in every good worke , as serviceable to the state , and common-wealth , as those who are of another judgement and practise ? o● what repugnancy is there in either of those things , unto any of these ? if so , whether can it be a thing well pleasing unto god , or of any good accommodation to the state , to make a law for the punishing or afflicting of such persons ? whether is not such an ordinance , ( were it an ordinance indeed ) in the very nature and direct tendency of it , likely to prove a grand discouragement unto many from taking the calling of the ministery upon them , ( the kingdome suffering at present so extreamely for want of able and faithfull men in this calling , ) and especially such , who are most ingenuous , and most eminently qualified by god for this great worke ? or whether are not men of greatest worth for parts and abilities , especially in conjunction with good and tender consciences , ( the most absolute composition for the ministery , ) more like then other men to decline that imployment , wherein they are so much the more like to suffer for a good conscience sake , then other men ; by how much the more likely they are to discover the common errors and misprisions of the present age in matters of religion , then they ? whether is not the said ordinance , in the example of it , a direct incouragement and confirmation to popish magistrates , to persecute the faithfull servants of god , who live in their territories with fire & sword , for professing the truth of god amongst them ? and whether doe not they , who here seeke to plucke up the tares , by such an ordinance , plucke up the wheat also there , by the same ? whether was there ever any such ordinance , or state act , ever heard of , or knowne , in any the reformed churches ? i meane , which was so apparently bent against the faces , if not of the greatest part , yet of so considerable a part of the best and most conscientious men amongst them , as this is ? whether was there ever any thing done in the bishops times , or any thing attempted to be done by this generation of men in the day of their greatest interest and power in the kingdome , of that bloudy consequence to those godly persons , ministers , or others , whom they most hated , and sought to crush , as this ordinance , if once established , is like to be , to surre greater numbers of truely pious and conscientious men ? whether the said ordinance ministreth not an advantage , of opportunity to the worst and wickedest of men , who commonly hate the best and faithfullest ministers most , to accuse them unduly of such things , which according to the ordinary course of law , may touch their lives , or otherwise bring much affliction , and vexation to them ? whether twelve simple countrimen , such as our ordinary juries usually confist of at countrey assizes , who ( alas ! ) are far from being versed , or any wayes judgemented in the profound questions in divinity , ( unto many of which the ordinance relateth ) and who are generally uncapable of such equipollencies , proprieties , and differences of words , upon the understanding , or right discerning whereof , the innocencie or guiltinesse of the person indited is very likely to depend , be of any competent faculty or interest , to passe upon the life or liberty of a studious , learned , and conscientious man , in such cases , which the greatest and ablest professors of divinitie in the world , are not able cleerly , or with any competent satisfaction to the scrupulous ( many times ) to resolve , or determine ? whither an ordinary judge of ass●●e , who either doth not pretend , or ( at most ) in most cases , doth but pretend to any thoroughnesse of search or inquiry into the deep things of god in the abstruse and disputable points of religion , as that of free will , of the trinity , of the hypostaticall union , concerning the death of christ , the condition of the soule after death , &c. be a competent judge in such questions and cases as these , especially over , and against such men ( to the bereaving of them , either of life or libertie ) who are knowne to be men of able parts , and to have made the study of divinity , their sole imployment all their dayes , being otherwise , grave , and sober , and conscientious men in all their wayes ? whether these two opinions , ( both of them attainded for errors , and made equally punishable by the ordinance , ) o that the morrall law contained in the ten commandements is no rule of a christian life . o that the observation of the lords day , as it is enjoyned by the ordinances and lawes of this realme , is not according , or contrary to the word of god ; can possibly be both errors , or justly punishable ; since the observation of the lords day , as it is enjoyned by the ordinances and lawes of this realme , is no where to be found in the morall law contained in the ten commandements ; this law requiring the observation of another day , differing from that , the observation whereof is injoyned by the ordinances and lawes of this realme ? or if the law contained in the ten commandements be the rule of a christian life , whether doe they walke christianly , who doe not conforme themselves unto it ? nay , who place a great part of their christianity , in walking , if not contrary to it , yet quite beside it ? as all they doe , who observe the lords day , as it is injoyned by the ordinances and laws of this realme ; and celebrate the two sacraments , baptisme , and the loods supper , mentioned likewise in the ordinance ? whether doth the ordinance , making this a punishable errour , to hold that a man by nature hath free will to turne unto god , by this expression , of having free will to turne unto god , intend to grant any will at all in men by nature to turne unto god , though much incumbred and oppressed with corruption , and indisposition to such an act , and in that respect , meaneth that it is not free ; or else to denie all , and all manner of will in men , in respect of this act ; so that when god purposeth to make men willing to turne to him , he must create a new facultie of will in him , as also a new disposition or propension in this will , whereby it may be freely carried upon this act of conversion ? what does the ordinance mean , by blasph●ming the name of god , or any of the holy trinity ? doth it mean any kinde or degree of sin , against the third commandement ? or any , and every kinde of swearing ▪ as by faith , troth , or the like ; so that upon the second offence committed in this kinde , after , and contrary to admonition , the party offending is to suffer death ? or doth it by blaspheming the name of god , &c. intend onely the highest kindes of blasphemy , as the calling of god , or of jesus christ , accursed , wicked , unjust , unfaithfull , & c ? what doth the ordinance mean , by impugning the word of god ? doth it mean , the opposing by way of argument and discourse , every truth contained and delivered in the word of god ? or onely the proposall and inforcement of such reasons and grounds , the tendency whereof is , to prove it , indefinitly taken and considered , not to be the word of god ? in what sence doth the ordinance make it erroneous and punishable , to hold , that god seeth no sin in the justified ? inasmuch as there is a sence , ( if not more then one ) wherein it is most certainly true , that god seeth no sin in such persons ( a ) ? in what sence doth the ordinance adjudge it an error , worthy to be punished , and that with no lesse than perpetuall imprisonment , in case it be not abjured ; to hold and maintain ▪ that a man is bound to beleeve no more , than by his reason hee can comprehend ? doth it intend to make men of this faith , that they are bound in conscience to beleeve more than they can comprehend , that is , cleerly and fully conceive any reason why they should beleeve ? if so , then how much , or to what proportion of object are they bound to beleeve , beyond what they are able to comprehend by reason , sufficient & cleer grounds of beleeving ? are they bound to beleeve in this kinde ( i mean , beyond what they are able to comprehend by reason ) without measure , bounds , or limits ? if so , are they bound to beleeve all things without exception , that shall any wayes , or by any hand be presented unto them ? or , if reason ought not to regulate or limit men about the object or matter of their beleeving , then are they bound to beleeve those things , concerning which , there is no ground or reason at all , why they should be beleeved ? if so , whether is divine revelation , or the asserting of things by god , any ground or reason , comprehensible in that relation , by that faculty of reason , or understanding in a man , for the beleeving of all things so revealed , and asserted ? if so , whether is not reason , able to comprehend and judge of all things required by god as necessary to be beleeved , so farre , as they are necessary to be beleeved , i. e , as farre as they are revealed by god ? or is any man bound to beleeve that , concerning which it is unpossible for him , or any man , to comprehend , or conceive any reason , why it should be a truth ; and consequently worthy or meet to be beleeved ? or what instance can be given in any particular branch of the object of faith , which ought to be beleeved , and yet is unpossible to be comprehended by reason , that it is a truth ? or whether ought any man ( at least , in sensu composito , ) to beleeve the deepest or highest mystery in religion , any further , or any otherwise , then as , and as farre , as he hath reason to judge it to be a truth ? what doth the ordinance mean , by publishing doctrines with obstinacy ? doth it mean a publishing of them , contrary to the will , pleasure , or prohibition of the assembly of divines , or of any particular man , whether they shew unto the assertors or publishers of such doctrines , any sufficient reason to convince them , or no ? or what kinde , or manner of reasons doth it intend those shall be , upon the tender whereof , either by the said assembly , or others , the publisher of the doctrines shall be judged obstinate , in case he shall still publish them ? or if , by publishing with obstinacy , be meant , a publishing contrary to the desires , or injunctions of men , without any sufficient reason given of their desires , or injunctions in this kinde ; then in what sense or notion doth the ordinance understand the word obstinacy ? or how many desires , prohibitions , or injunctions of men to the contrary , must precede and be administred , before a man shall according to meaning and intent of the ordinance , be said to publish a doctrine obstinately ? whereas the said ordinance maketh it an error , and the publishing of it punishable with imprisonment , to hold , that government by presbytery is unlawfull ; whether doth it mean , that government by presbytery which the parliament hath established , or that government by presbytery , which is so importunely desired and defended by the ministers ; because there is ( it seems ) a strong opposition , and vast difference between the one and the other , at least in some things ? or doth it intend , all , and all manner of government by presbytery , in what sense or notion soever ? what doth the paper mean , by blaspheming the name of god , or impugning the word of god , wittingly , and presumptuously , considering , that ( as mr. prynne informes us at a large ) the word , presumptuously admits of a strange variety of significations ? and since the sin of blaspheming the name of god ( with the other ) must be committed wittingly , and presumptuously , or contrary to admonition , before the ordinance ( so called ) takes hold of it , or maketh it punishable ; upon what testimony , evidence , or indication , one or more , shall the said sins be adjudged to be committed wittingly ? again , inasmuch as the said sins committed contrary to admonition , are made so severely punishable by the ordinance ; by whom is it intended that this admonition must be given , to bring the said sins under the dint and stroke of the ordinance ? whether by a magistrate only , or by a minister , and that either in his publique ministery , and in generall , or in private , and in personall addresse , or by any man , of what rank or quality soever ? god having appointed an expresse punishment ( by way of remedy and cure ) of blasphemy , in the new testament ( whom i have delivered up unto satan , saith paul , that they may learn not to b blaspheme , ) whether is it either reasonable or christian , to decline this punishment of so sovereign a nature for the healing of the sin , and to preferre a punishment mentioned onely in the old testament , which , though appointed by god for those times , yet hath no such evangelicall vertue or property ascribed unto it ? whether the ordinance , in ordering the delinquent or party accused , to renounce his error in the publique congregation of the parish-church whence the complaint comes ; intends onely this renunciation , when the complaint of the error preached or maintained , comes from , or out of such a publique congregation ? or in case it comes from , or out of another congregation , viz. which is not parochiall , or held in a parish-church , whether then doth the ordinance intend any such renunciation at all ? or in what congregation doth it intend it ? or whether is any complaint of an error published or maintained , admittable by the ordinance , but onely those , that come from some publique congregation of a parish-church ? in what sense desireth the paper to be understood , when it maketh an action punishable with imprisonment , to publish , that it is not lawfull to teach children to pray ? or whether doth it measure children , by age , or by understanding ? if by either , at what age , or under what line or scantling of understanding must they be , when it shall be punishable by the ordinance , for any man to affirme , that it is not lawfull to teach them to pray ? for doubtlesse it is not lawfull to teach children , or whosoever , to pray , unlesse we can reasonably judge them capable of our instruction in this kinde , and of learning how to pray . the scriptures not having cleerly determined or defined , what is erroneous , or hereticall , in many ( if not in the most ) of the particulars mentioned in the said ordinance ; who , or of what capacity or interest ought they to be , that are meet to be constituted judges or determiners of such cases and questions ? whether those , that already are profoundly ingaged on the one hand ? or those who as yet stand undeclared in either ? or who have any power or authority from god to appoint judges in such cases as they please ? whether did god ever give any power or authority to civill magistrates , or others , either in the old testament or the new , to make any controverted exposition of any clause or clauses in the law , controvertible between priest and priest , scribe and scribe , though published and declared , or any matter whatsoever of doubtfull disputation between grave , learned , pious , and conscientious men on both sides , punishable either with imprisonment or death ? and whether are not many of the points condemned by the ordinance , matters of this nature , controvertible ( i mean ) yea , and actually controverted between persons of equall worth , parts , learning , judgement , conscience , on both sides ? finis . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a e- a luk. . . b mat. . . . a cor. . a cor. . . a numb. . . jer. . . psal. . . &c. a truth triumphing over falshood , p. ▪ b tim. . the argument of the letter concerning toleration, briefly consider'd and answer'd proast, jonas. approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing p estc r ocm this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) the argument of the letter concerning toleration, briefly consider'd and answer'd proast, jonas. [ ], p. printed at the theatre for george west and henry clements..., london : . advertisement on prelim. p. [ ]. reproduction of original in huntington library. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng locke, john, - . -- epistola de tolerantia. -- english. religious tolerance -- england. great britain -- history -- william and mary, - . - tcp assigned for keying and markup - spi global keyed and coded from proquest page images - john latta sampled and proofread - john latta text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion the argument of the letter concerning toleration , briefly consider'd and answer'd . oxford , printed at the theatre , for george west , and henry clements , booksellers in oxford . a. d. . imprimatur , ionathan edwards vice-can . oxon. april , , . to my very worthy friend mr. — sir , seeing you would not be deny'd ; i have in compliance with your request , consider'd the letter concerning toleration : but so , as to confine my self to what respects the proper subject and design of it : not medling with any incidental matters , though some of that kind are liable enough to animadversion . you know i love no long work . and as short as this is , it had been shorter , if i could well have made it so . i should beg your pardon for the backwardness i shew'd to comply with your request , but that i fear the meanness of the performance will too much justifie it . sir , i am your much obliged , and most faithful servant . march . . advertisement . the edition of the letter concerning toleration , here cited , is that in quarto . the argument of the letter concerning toleration , briefly consider'd and answer'd . in the beginning of this letter , the author speaks of the mutual toleration of christians in their different professions of religion . but toward the end of it he saith , if we may openly speak the truth , and as becomes one man to another , neither pagan , nor mahumetan , nor jew ought to be excluded from the civil rights of the commonwealth , because of his religion . and all that he requires of any , to qualify them for the benefit of the toleration he endeavours to promote , is onely , that they be not atheists ; that they hold no opinions contrary to civil society ; and , that they own and teach the duty of tolerating all men in matters of meer religion . so that the design of the author is evidently , to shew , that all the religions and sects in the world , that are but consistent with civil society , and ready to tolerate each other , ought every where to be equally tolerated and protected , or to enjoy an equal and impartial liberty , as the preface calls it . i do not believe this author intends any prejudice , either to religion in general , or to the christian religion . but yet it seems hard to conceive how he should think to do any service to either , by recommending and perswading such a toleration as he here proposeth . for how much soever it may tend to the advancement of trade and commerce ( which some seem to place above all other considerations ; ) i see no reason , from any experiment that has been made , to expect that true religion would be any way a gainer by it ; that it would be either the better preserved , or the more widely propagated , or rendered any whit the more fruitful in the lives of its professours by it . i am sure the fruits of a toleration not quite so large as our author 's , ( some of which still remain with us , ) give no encouragement to hope for any such advantage from it . but i do not design to argue against this toleration , but only to enquire , what our authour offers for the proof of his assertion , and to examine , whether there be strength enough in it , to bear the weight he laies upon it . and this i hope may be done in a very little compass . for , if i understand this letter , the whole strength of what it urgeth for the purpose of it , lies in this argument : there is but one way of salvation , or but one true religion . no man can be saved by this religion , who does not believe it to be the true religion . this belief is to be wrought in men by reason and argument , not by outward force and compulsion . therefore all such force is utterly of no use for the promoting true religion , and the salvation of souls . and therefore no body can have any right to use any force or compulsion , for the bringing men to the true religion : neither any private person ; nor any ecclesiastical officer ( bishop , priest , or other ; ) nor any church , or religious society ; nor the civil magistrate . this , upon a careful perusal of this letter , i take to be the single argument by which the author endeavours in it to establish his position . and if every point of this were sufficiently proved , i must confess i think he would need no more for the accomplishing his design . but whether he has sufficiently made out this argument in all the parts of it , is that which i am now to examine . as to the two first propositions , i have no difference with our authour , but do fully agree with him in them . and for the third , i readily grant that reason and arguments are the only proper means , whereby to induce the mind to assent to any truth , which is not evident by its own light : and that force is very improper to be used to that end instead of reason and arguments . for who knows not , that the nature of the understanding is such , that it cannot be compelled to the belief of any thing by outward force ? but notwithstanding this , if force be used , not in stead of reason and arguments , i. e. not to convince by its own proper efficacy ( which it cannot do , ) but onely to bring men to consider those reasons and arguments which are proper and sufficient to convince them , but which , without being forced , they would not consider : who can deny , but that indirectly and at a distance , it does some service toward the bringing men to embrace that truth , which otherwise , either through carelesness and negligence they would never acquaint themselves with , or through prejudice they would reject and condemn unheard , under the notion of errour ? and by this we see how little of truth there is in the fourth proposition , which is this , that all outward force is utterly useless for the promoting true religion and the salvation of souls . for if force so applied as is above mentioned , may , in such sort as has been said , be serviceable to the bringing men to receive and embrace truth ; there can be no reason assigned , why this should not hold with respect to the truths of religion , as well as with respect to any other truths whatsoever . for as the true religion , embrac'd upon such consideration as force drives a man to , is not the less true , for being so embraced ; so neither does it upon that account lose its acceptableness with god , any more then that obedience does , which god himself drives men to by chastening and afflicting them . all therefore that is here requisite to be considered for the clearing this matter , is , whether there be any need of outward force , for the bringing men to the true religion , and so to salvation . for as i acknowledge such force to be no fit means to be used for this end , ( nor indeed for any other ) where it is not needful or necessary ; so if it shall appear to be ordinarily needful for this end , i suppose what has been already said , may be thought sufficient to shew the usefulness of it in order to the same . now here i grant , that if all men were but so faithful to their own souls , as to seek the way of saving them , with such care and diligence as the importance of the matter deserves , and with minds free from prejudice and passion ; there could be no need of force to compell any man to do , what in that case every man would be sure to do voluntarily , and of his own accord . but then it must be granted withal , that if this were the case ; as there is indeed but one true religion , so there could be no other religion but that in the world . because ( if we believe the scriptures ) no man can fail of finding the way of salvation , who seeks it as he ought ; and in this case all men are supposed so to see●k it . and yet there is nothing more notorious , than that men have sought out many inventions , and contrived a great variety of of religions to themselves : so that there is nothing about which the world is more divided , then it is about the way that leads to eternal blessedness . which is an evident demonstration , that all men have not sought the truth in this matter , with that application of mind , and that freedom of judgment , which was requisite to assure their finding it . and as all the false religions now on foot in the world , may reasonably be thought to have taken their rise from the slight and partial consideration , which the inventers of them contented themselves with in searching after the true ; whilest they suffer'd their lusts and passions to sit in judgement , and to manage the enquiry : so it is obvious to observe , that notwithstanding that there are so many religions in the world , and that only one of them can be true ; yet there is nothing in which men are more generally wanting to themselves , than they are in the consideration which they ought to use in making their choice among them . 't is strange indeed : but yet whoever looks abroad into the world must see , that in this affair , the impressions of education , the reverence and admiration of persons , worldly respects , and the like incompetent motives determine far greater numbers , than reason , or such considerations as are apt and proper to manifest the truth of things . nor is it less easie to observe , that whatever religion men take up without reason , they usually adhere to it likewise without reason . that which hinders a due consideration of things at first , and prevails with men to choose without reason , has commonly the same power afterwards to keep them from considering , and to hold them to what they so choose , without reason . besides , men have generally an overweening conceit of their own judgements , and are prone to value what themselves have chosen , even because they thought fit to choose it : and this prejudices their minds against all that can be said to the disparagement of their choice , and possesses them with an opinion that nothing of that nature can deserve their consideration . to which i may add , that when once men have espoused a religion , it is then become their own : and that alone ( such is the power of self-love ) is enough to endear it to them , and to make them grow fond of it : as men are apt to dote upon their children , because they are theirs , even when they have little or nothing besides to recommend them . and this also renders them averse to the consideration of any thing that may be offered against their religion , or in behalf of any other . but though it be so ordinary a thing for men both to choose and to persist in their religigion without reason ; yet it must be confess'd that those who do so , are not willing to think they do so , nor that others should think so of them . but then this onely puts them upon enquiring how their leaders and the champions of their cause are wont to defend it , and to attack their adversaries : and so , studying onely their own side of the controversy , they come to be the more confirm'd in the way they have chosen , and to think they can shew that they have reason on their side . and when it is come to this ; when such an appearance of reason strikes in with their affections and prejudices , they are so much the further from thinking it possible that they may be in the wrong : and then they have no patience any longer to hear of descending to a severe and impartial examination of both sides of the questions in debate , but reject the motion with scorn , and grow angry with him that troubles them with it . now if this be the case , ( as i think it cannot be denied to be ; being matter of common observation ; ) if men are generally so averse to a due consideration of things , where they are most concern'd to use it : if they usually take up their religion without examining it as they ought , and then grow so opinionative , and so stiff in their prejudices , that neither the gentlest admonitions , nor the most earnest intreaties shall ever prevail with them afterwards to do it : what means is there left ( besides the grace of god ) to reduce those of them that are got into a wrong way , but to lay thorns and briars in it ? that since they are deaf to all perswasions , the uneasiness they meet with may at least put them to a stand , and encline them to lend an ear to those who tell them they have mistaken their way , and offer to shew them the right . when men fly from the means of a right information , and will not so much as consider how reasonable it is , throughly and impartially to examine a religion , which they embraced upon such inducements as ought to have no sway at all in the matter , and therefore with little or no examination of the proper grounds of it : what humane method can be used , to bring them to act like men , in an affair of such consequence , and to make a wiser and more rational choice , but that of laying such penalties upon them , as may balance the weight of those prejudices which enclined them to prefer a false way before the true , and recover them to so much sobriety and reflexion , as seriously to put the question to themselves , wheth●r it be really worth the while to undergo su●h inconveniences , for adhering to a religion , which , for any thing they know , may be false , or for rejecting another ( if that be the case ) which , for any thing they know , may be true , till they have brought it to the bar of reason , and given it a fair tryal there . where instruction is stifly refused , and all admonitions and perswasions prove vain and ineffectual , there is no room for any other method but this : and then i am sure there is need enough of it : and it is well if that will produce the desired effect . but there is no reason to question the success of this method ( if it be rightly used ) upon such as are not altogether incurable : and those that are so , must be left to god. i say , if it be rightly used ; i. e. if the force applied , be duly proportioned to the design of it . for , though upon the considerations here offer'd , i take it to be clear in the general , that outward force is neither useless nor needless for the bringing men to do , what the saving of their souls may require of them : yet i do not say , that all manner of force , or all degrees of it are fit to be used for this purpose . but then to determine precisely the just measures of it , and to say upon good grounds , thus much may fitly and reasonably be applied for the purpose we speak of , and no more ; this may perhaps require some consideration . and to me , i confess , this seems to be the onely point concerning which there is any ground for controversy , in this whole matter . now here i must profess my self perfectly agreed with this author , that to prosecute men with fire and sword , or to deprive them of their estates , to maim them with corporal punishments , to sterve and torment them in noisom prisons , and in the end even to take away their lives , to make them christians , is but an ill way of expressing men's desire of the salvation of those whom they treat in this manner : and that it will be very difficult to to perswade men of sense , that he , who with dry eyes , and satisfaction of mind , can deliver his brother to the executioner , to be burnt alive , does sincerely and heartily concern himself to save that brother from the flames of hell in the world to come . and ( besides the manifest absurdity of takeing away men's lives to make them christians , &c. ) i cannot but remark , that these methods are so very improper in respect to the design of them , that they usually produce the quite contrary effect . for whereas all the use which force can have for the advancing true religion , and the salvation of souls , is ( as has already been shewed ) by disposing men to submit to instruction , and to give a fair hearing to the reasons which are offer'd , for the enlightning their minds and discovering the truth to them : these cruelties have the misfortune to be commonly look't upon as so just a prejudice against any religion that uses them , as makes it needless to look any further into it ; and to tempt men to reject it , as both false and detestable , without ever vouchsafing to consider the rational grounds and motives of it . this effect they seldom fail to work upon the sufferers of them . and as to the spectatours , if they be not before-hand well instructed in those grounds and motives ; they will be much tempted likewise , not onely to entertain the same opinion of such a religion , but withall to judge much more favourably of that of the sufferers ; who , they will be apt to think , would not expose themselves to such extremities , which they might avoid by compliance , if they were not throughly satisfied of the justice of their cause . these severities therefore i take to be utterly unapt and improper for the bringing men to embrace that truth which must save them . but how far , within these bounds , that force extends it self , which is really serviceable to this end , i shall not take upon me to determine . it may suffice to say , that so much force , or such penalties as are ordinarily sufficient to prevail with men of common discretion , and not desperately perverse and obstinate , to weigh matters of religion carefully and impartially ; and without which ordinarily they will not do this ; so much force , or such penalties may fitly and reasonably be used for the promoting true religion in the world , and the salvation of souls . if then this fourth proposition be not true , ( as perhaps by this time it appears it is not ; ) then the last proposition , which is built upon it , must fall with it . which last proposition is this , that no body can have any right to use any outward force or compulsion , to bring men to the true religion , and so to salvation : neither any private person ; nor any ecclesiastical officer ; nor any church , or religious society ; nor the civil magistrate . and certainly , if there be so great use and necessity of outward force ( duly temper'd and applied ) for the promoting true religion and the salvation of souls , as i have endeavoured to shew there is ; this is as good an argument , to prove that there is somewhere a right to use such force for that purpose , as the utter uselessness of force ( if that could be made out ) would be , to prove that no body has any such right . for this is indeed the point upon which this controversy turnes : if all force and compulsion be utterly useless and unserviceble to the promoting these ends ; then to use it for that purpose , will be only to abuse it ; which no man can have a right to do : but if , on the contrary , such a degree of outward force as has been mentioned , be really of great and even necessary use for the advancing these ends , ( as , taking the world as we find it , i think it appears to be ; ) then it must be acknowledged , that there is a right somewhere to use it for the advancing those ends ; unless we will say ( what without impiety cannot be said ) that the wise and benign disposer and governour of all things has not furnish'd mankind with competent means for the promoting his own honour in the world , and the good of souls . and if there be such a right somewhere ; where should it be , but where the power of compelling resides ? that is , principally , and in reference to the publick , in the civil sovereign ( whom this author calls the civil magistrate , ) and in those who derive authority from him : but also , in a lower degree , in parents , masters of families , tutors , &c. for i agree with this authour , . that no private person ( if by private persons he means such as have no coactive power over others ) has any right , in any manner , to prejudice another person in his civil employments , because he is of another church or religion . for how should he that has no coactive power , have any right to use such power , either upon that , or upon any other account whatsoever ? . that no ecclesiastical officer , as such , nor yet , . any church or religious society , as such , has any externally coactive power : and that therefore neither the one , nor the other , can , as such , have any right to use or exercise any such power , upon any pretence whatsoever . ( though i confess i do not yet understand why ecclesiasticks , or clergy-men , are not as capable of such power , as other men . ) but in reference to the civil magistrate , our author tells us , that the commonwealth seems to him be a society of men constituted onely for the procuring , preserving , and advancing of their own civil interests . by which interests he tells us he means life , liberty , health and indolency of body ; aud the possession of outward things , such as money , lands , houses , furniture , and the like . and agreeably to this hypothesis , he would perswade us , that the whole iurisdiction of the magistrate reaches onely to these civil concernments : and that all civil power , right , and dominion , is bounded and confined to the onely care of promoting these things : and that it neither can nor ought in any manner to be extended to the salvation of souls . but in answer to this , . i acknowledge ( as this authour here seems to do ) that the extent of the magistrat's jurisdiction is to be measured by the end for which the commonwealth is instituted . for in vain are men conbined in such societies as we call commonwealths , if the governours of them are not invested with sufficient power to procure the end for which such societies are intended . but then , . i must say , that our authour does but beg the question , when he affirms that the commonwealth is constituted onely for the procuring , preserving , and advancing of the civil interests of the members of it . that commonwealths are instituted for these ends , no man will deny . but if there be any other ends besides these , attainable by civil society and government ; there is no reason to affirm that these are the onely ends for which they are designed . doubtless commonwealths are instituted for the attaining of all the benefits which political government can yield . and therefore if the spiritual and eternal interests of men may any way be procured or advanced by political government ; the procuring and advancing those interests must in all reason be reckon'd among the ends of civil societies , and so , consequently , fall within the compass of the magistrate's jurisdiction . but our author offers three considerations , which seem to him abundantly to demonstrate that the civil power neither can nor ought in any manner to be extended to the salvation of souls . and the first of them is , because the care of souls is not committed to the civil magistrate any more then to other men . but this seems to be no consideration at all ; but onely the proving the thing by it self , in other words . for to extend the civil power to the salvation of souls , is nothing else but to say , that the care of souls is committed to the magistrate , more than to other men . and therefore to say , that the civil power neither can nor ought to be extended to the salvation of souls , because the care of souls is not committed to the magistrate , any more then to other men ; is in effect no more than to say , that the civil power neither can nor ought to be extended to the salvation of souls , because it neither can nor ought to be extended to the salvation of souls . but ( to let this pass ) if what i said but now , be true ; it appears from thence , that besides that care which charity obliges all men , especially christians , to take of each others souls ; and besides that care of souls also which is committed to the proper ministers of religion , who by special designation are appointed , not onely to exhort , admonish , reprove , and correct by spiritual censures those , who having embraced the truth , do find themselves obliged by it to submit to their spiritual authority ; but likewise to seek that which was lost , and to endeavour by wholsom instruction and due information , to bring to the right way those who never knew it , and to reduce such as have gone astray from it : i say , besides that fraternal care of souls , which is common to all , and this pastoral care , which is purely spiritual , and operates immediately upon the consciences of men ; there is an external and more remote care of souls , which is exercised , not only by obliging under temporal sanctions both the spiritual pastours to perform their duties , and those who own their authority , to pay them reverence and due submission ; but also by laying such penalties upon those who refuse to embrace their doctrine , and to submit to their spiritual government , as may make them bethink themselves , and put it out of the power of any foolish humour , or unreasonable prejudice , to alienate them from the truth and their own happiness . which care of souls , as it can only belong to the civil magistrate , so i think it appears from what has been said , that it is indeed committed to him . but our author attempts to prove the contrary . it is not , saith he , committed to him by god ; because it appears not that god has ever given any such authority to one man over another , as to compel any one to his religion . but this is quite beside the business . for the authority of the magistrate is not an authority to compel any one to his religion , but onely an authority to procure all his subjects the means of discovering the way of salvation ; and to procure withal , as much as in him lies , that none remain ignorant of it , or refuse to embrace it , either for want of using those means , or by reason of any such prejudices as may render them ineffectual . and certainly this authority may be committed to the magistrate by god , though he has given no man authority to compel another to his religion . our authour adds , nor can any such power be vested in the magistrate by the consent of the people ; because no man can so far abandon his own salvation , as blindly to leave it to the choice of any other , whether prince or subject , to prescribe to him what faith or worship he shall embrace . to which i answer : as the power of the magistrate in reference to religion , is ordained for the bringing men to take such care as they ought of their salvation , that they may not blindly leave it to the choice , neither of any other person , nor yet of their own lusts and passions , to prescribe to them what faith or worship they shall embrace : so if we suppose this power to be vested in the magistrate by the consent of the people ; this will not import their abandoning the care of their salvation , but rather the contrary . for if men , in choosing their religion ; are so generally subject , as has been shewed , when left wholly to themselves , to be so much swayed by prejudice and passion , as either not at all , or not sufficiently to regard the reasons and motives which ought alone to determine their choice : then it is every man's true interest , not to be left wholly to himself in this matter , but that care should be taken , that in an affair of so vast concernment to him , he may be brought even against his own inclination , if it cannot be done otherwise ( which is ordinarily the case ) to act according to reason and sound judgment . and then what better course can men take to provide for this , then by vesting the power i have described , in him who bears the sword ? not that i think the sword is to be used in this business , ( as i have sufficiently declared already ; ) but because all coactive power resolves at last into the sword ; since all ( i do not say , that will not be reformed in this matter by lesser penalties , but ) that refuse to submit to lesser penalties , must at last fall under the stroke of it . in the second place , saith our authour , the care of souls cannot belong to the civil magistrate , because his power consists onely in outward force ; but true and saving religion consists in the inward perswasion of the mind , without which nothing can be acceptable to god. and such is the nature of the understanding , that it cannot be compelled to the belief of any thing by outward force . but that care of souls which i affirm to belong to the magistrate , does therefore belong to him , because his power consists in outward force . for it consists altogether in applying outward force , in such manner as has been said , for the procuring the salvation of souls . and that outward force may be so applyed as to procure the salvation of souls , notwithstanding that true and saving religion consists in the inward perswasion of the mind , and that the understanding cannot be compelled to the belief of any thing by outward force , appears , i hope , sufficiently from the foregoing discourse . the third consideration is this : the care of the salvation of souls cannot belong to the magistrate ; because , though the rigour of laws and the force of penalties , were capable to convince and change men's minds , yet would not that help at all to the salvation of their souls . i believe no more then this author does , that the rigour of laws , and the force of penalties , are capable to convince and change men's minds . ( though i hope i have shewed that moderate penalties may do good service toward the procuring the conviction and change of men's minds . ) but if they were capable to work these effects ; i confess i do not see why it should be be said , that that would not help at all to the salvation of their souls . but our author's meaning appears by what followes : for there being but one truth , one way to heaven ; what hope is there that more men would be led into it , if they had no rule but the religion of the court , and were put under a necessity to quit the light of their own reason , and oppose the dictates of their own consciences , and blindly to resign up themselves to the will of their governours , and to the religion , which either ignorance , ambition , or superstition has chanced to establish in the countries where they were born ? in the variety and contradiction of opinions in religion , wherein the princes of the world are as much divided as in their secular interests , the narrow way would be much straitned ; one countrey alone would be in the right , and all the rest of the world put under an obligation of following their princes in the ways that lead to destruction , and that which heightens the absurdity , and very ill suits the notion of a deity , men would owe their eternal happiness or misery the places of their nativity . now all this i acknowledge to be very true . but to what purpose it is here alledged , i do not understand . for who requires that men should have no rule but the religion of the court ? or that they should be put under a necessity to quit the light of their own reason , and oppose the dictates of their own consciences , and blindly resign up themselves to the will of their governers , & c. ? no man certainly , who thinks religion worthy of his serious thoughts . the power i asscribe to the magistrate , is given him , to bring men , not to his own , but to the true religion : and though ( as our author puts us in mind ) the religion of every prince is orthodox to himself ; yet if this power keep within its bounds , it can serve the interest of no other religion but the true , among such as have any concern for their eternal salvation ; ( and those that have none , deserve not to be consider'd : ) because the penalties it enables him that has it to inflict , are not such as may tempt such persons either to renounce a religion which they believe to be true , or to profess one which they do not believe to be so ; but only such as are apt to put them upon a serious and impartial examination of the controversy between the magistrate and them : which is the way for them to come to the knowledge of the truth . and if , upon such examination of the matter , they chance to find that the truth does not lie on the magistrate's side ; they have gained thus much however , even by the magistrate's misapplying his power , that they know better than they did before , where the truth does lie : and all the hurt that comes to them by it , is onely the suffering some tolerable inconveniences for their following , the light of their own reason , and the dictates of their own consciences : which certainly is no such mischief to mankind , as to make it more eligible that there should be no such power vested in the magistrate , but the care of every man's soul should be left to himself alone , ( as this authour demands it should be : ) that is , that every man should be suffered , quietly , and without the least molestation , either to take no care at all of his soul , if he be so pleased ; or in doing it , to follow his own groundless prejudices , or unaccountable humour , or any crafty seducer whom he may think fit to take for his guid. by what has been said to these considerations , i hope it sufficiently appears , that as they afford us no new argument , so they are far enough from demonstrating what they are brought to prove . thus i have , as briefly as i could , examined the argument which this author makes use of , to prove what he so much desires to make the world believe : not omitting any thing of his letter , wherein he seems to place any part of his strength . and i hope by this time an ordinary reader may discern , that whereas his design obliged him to shew , that all manner of outward force is utterly useless to the purpose of bringing men to seek the truth with that care and diligence , and that freedom of judgement which they ought to use , that so they may find and embrace it , and attain salvation by it : which would have been a good foundation for his conclusion : instead of attempting that , he has contented himself with making a good declamation upon the impossibility of doing that by outward force , which can onely be done by reason and argument , of using fire and sword and capital punishments , to convince mens minds of errour , and inform them of the truth . which was much more easie to be done , and might serve as well among weak and unwary people , though it was not really to his purpose . finis . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e pag. . pag. . pag. . pag. . pag. . pag. , , . pag. , , , , . pag. , , , . pag. , . pag. . pag. , . pag. . pag. , . pag. , , . letter pag. . iohn . . psal. . , , . prov. . , — . let. p. . . pag. . pag. . pag. . ibid. ibid. pag. . ibid. ibid. ibid. ibid. pag. . pag. . pag. . pag. , . pag. . a sermon preached to the honourable house of commons, in parliament assembled: on january . a day of solemne humiliation. with a discourse about toleration, and the duty of the civill magistrate about religion, thereunto annexed. humbly presented to them, and all peace-loving men of this nation. / by john owen, pastor of the church of christ, which is at coggeshall in essex. owen, john, - . this text is an enriched version of the tcp digital transcription a of text r in the english short title catalog (thomason e _ e _ ). textual changes and metadata enrichments aim at making the text more computationally tractable, easier to read, and suitable for network-based collaborative curation by amateur and professional end users from many walks of life. the text has been tokenized and linguistically annotated with morphadorner. the annotation includes standard spellings that support the display of a text in a standardized format that preserves archaic forms ('loveth', 'seekest'). textual changes aim at restoring the text the author or stationer meant to publish. this text has not been fully proofread approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. earlyprint project evanston,il, notre dame, in, st. louis, mo a wing o thomason e _ thomason e _ estc r this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (thomason tracts ; :e [ ] or :e [ ]) a sermon preached to the honourable house of commons, in parliament assembled: on january . a day of solemne humiliation. with a discourse about toleration, and the duty of the civill magistrate about religion, thereunto annexed. humbly presented to them, and all peace-loving men of this nation. / by john owen, pastor of the church of christ, which is at coggeshall in essex. owen, john, - . [ ], , [ ] p. printed by matthew simmons, for henry cripps in popes head alley, london : . with a preliminary order to print. reproduction of the original in the british library. eng sermons, english -- th century. religious tolerance -- england -- sermons -- early works to . fast-day sermons -- th century. a r (thomason e _ e _ ). civilwar no a sermon preached to the honourable house of commons, in parliament assembled: on january . a day of solemne humiliation.: with a discour owen, john c the rate of defects per , words puts this text in the c category of texts with between and defects per , words. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - aptara keyed and coded from proquest page images - john latta sampled and proofread - john latta text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion a sermon preached to the honourable house of commons , in parliament assembled : on january . a day of solemne humiliation . with a discourse about toleration , and the duty of the civill magistrate about religion , thereunto annexed . humbly presented to them , and all peace-loving men of this nation . by john owen , pastor of the church of christ , which is at coggeshall in essex . london , printed by matthew simmons , in aldersgate street , . die mercurij , . januarij , . ordered by the commons assembled in parliament , that master allen , do give the thankes of this house , to master owen , for the great paines he tooke in his sermon , preached before this house this day , at margarets westminster ; and that he be desired to print his sermon at large , wherein he is to have the like priviledge of printing it , as others in the like kind usually have had . hen : scobell cler : parl. dom. com. to the right honourable the commons of england , assembled in parliament . sirs , it hath always suited the wisedome of god , to do great things in difficult seasons . he sets up wals in troublous times . dan. . . his builders must hold swords and spears , as well as instruments of labour , neh. . . yea while sin continueth in its course here ( which began in heaven , and having contemporized with the earth , shall live for ever in hell . ) great works for god , will cause great troubles amongst men . the holy , harmlesse reconciler of heaven and earth , bids us expect the sword , to attend his undertakings for , and way of making peace , mat. . . all the waves in the world , arise to their height and roaring ▪ from the confronting of the breath of gods spirit , and the vapours of mens corruptions . hence seasons receive their degrees of difficulty , according to the greatnesse and weight of the workes which in them god will accomplish . to their worth and excellency is mans opposition proportioned . this , the instruments of his glory in this generation , shall continually find true to their present trouble , and future comfort . as the days approach for the delivery of the decree , to the shaking of heaven and earth , and all the powers of the world , to make way for the establishment of that kingdom which shall not be given to another people ( the great expectation of the saints of the most high before the consummation of all ) so tumults , troubles , vexations and disquietnes , must certainly grow and increase among the sons of men . a dead woman ( says the proverb ) will not be carryed out of her house under four men . much lesse will living men , of wisedome and power , be easily & quietly dispossessed of that share and interest in the things of christ , which long continued usurpation , hath deluded them into an imagination of being their owne inheritance . this then being shortly to be effected , and the scale being ready to turn against the man of sin , notwithstanding his ballancing it in opposition to the witnesse of jesus , with the weight and poyse of earthly power , no wonder if heaven , earth , sea , and dry land , be shaken in their giving place to the things that cannot be moved . god almighty having called you forth ( right honourable ) at his entrance to the rolling up of the nations heavens like a scroll , to serve him in your generation in the high places of armageddon , you shall be sure not to want experience of that opposition which is raised against the great work of the lord , which generally swels most , against the visible instruments therof . and would to god , you had only the deuoted sons of babel to contend withall , that the men of this shaking earth were your only antagonists : that the malignity of the dragons tayle , had had no influence on the stars of heaven , to prevaile with them to fight in their courses against you . but jacta est alea , the providence of god must be served , according to the discovery made of his owne unchangeable will , and not the mutable interests and passions of the sons of men . for verily the lord of hosts hath purposed to pollute the pride of all glory , and to bring into contempt all the honourable of the earth , isa. . . the contradictions of sinners against all that walk in the paths of righteousnesse and peace , with the supportment which their spirits may receive ( as being promised ) who pursue those wayes , notwithstanding those contradictions , are in part discovered in the ensuing sermon ; the foundation of that whole transaction of things , which is therin held out , in reference to the present dispensations of providence ( being nothing but an entrance into the unravelling of the whole web of iniquity , interwoven of civill and ecclesiasticall tyranny , in opposition to the kingdome of the lord jesus ) i chose not to mention . neither shall i at present add any thing thereabout , but onely my desire that it may be eyed as the granted basis of the following discourse . only by your very favourable acceptation of the making out those thoughts , which were the hasty conception , and like jonah's gourd , the child of a night or two ( which with prayer for a rooting in the hearts of them to whom they were delivered , had certainly withered , in their owne leaves , had they not received warmth and moysture from your commands in general , and the particular desires of many of you , to give them a life of a few dayes longer ) i am encouraged to the annexing of a few lines , as a free-will offering to attend the following product of obedience . now this shall not be to the opposition which you doe and shall yet further meet withall , but as to the causes , real , or pretended , which are held forth as the bottom of that contradiction wherwith on every side you are encompassed . the things in reference whereunto , your proceedence is laden with such criminations , as these sad dayes of recompence , have found to be comets portending no lesse then blood , are first civill , then religious . for the first , as their being beyond the bounds of my calling , gives them sanctuary from being called forth to my consideration , so neither have i the least thoughts with absolom of a more orderly carrying of of affaires , might my desires have any influence into their disposall . waiting at the throne of grace , that those whom god hath intrusted with , and enabled for the transaction of these things , may be directed and supported in their employment , is the utmost of my undertaking herein . for the other , or religious things , the generall interest i have in them as a christian , being improved by the super-added title of a minister of the gospel ( though unworthy the one name , and the other ) gives me not onely such boldnesse as accreweth from enjoyed favour , but also such a right as will support mee to plead concerning them , before the most impartiall judicature . and this i shall doe ( as i said before ) meerly in reference to those criminations , which are layd by conjecturall presumptions on your honourable assembly , and made a cause of much of that opposition and contradiction you meet withall . now in particular , it is the toleration of all religions or invented wayes of worship , wherein your constitutions are confidently antidated in many places of the nation , the thing it selfe withall , being held out , as the most enormous apprehension , and desperate indeavour for the destruction of truth and godlinesse that ever entred the thoughts of men , professing the one and the other . the contest hereabout , being adhuc sub judice , and there being no doubt , but that the whole matter , commonly phrased as above , hath ( like other things ) sinfull and dangerous extreames . i deemed it not amisse , to endeavour the powring a little cold water upon the common flames , which are kindled in the breasts of men about this thing . and who knowes , whether the words of a weake nothing , may not by the power of the fountaine of beings , give some light into the determination and establishment of a thing of so great concernment and consequence , as this is generally conceived to be . what is in this my weake undertaking , of the lord , i shall begg of him , that it may be received , what is of my selfe i begg of you that it may be pardoned . that god almighty would give you to prove all things that come unto you in his way , and to hold fast that which is good , granting you unconquerable assistance , in constant perseverance , is the prayer of , your devoted servant in our dearest lord : john owen . coggeshall , feb. . a sermon preached to the honourable house of commons , jan. . . jeremiah . ver. , . — let them returne to thee , but returne not thou unto them . and i will make thee unto this people a fenced brazen wall , and they shall fight against thee , but they shall not prevaile against thee : for i am with thee to save thee , and to deliver thee , saith the lord . the words of my text having a full dependance upon , and flowing out from , the maine subject matter of the whole chapter ; i must of necessity take a view thereof , and hold out unto you the minde of god contained therein , before i enter upon the part thereof chiefly intended : and this i shall doe with very briefe observations , that i may not anticipate my selfe , from a full opening and applycation of the words of my text . and this the rather are my thoughts led unto , because the whole transaction of things between the lord and a stubbornely sinfull nation , exceedingly accommodated to the carrying on of the controversie , he is now pleading with that wherein wee live , is set out ( as wee say ) to the life therein . of the whole chapter , there be these five parts . . the denuntiation of fearefull wasting , destroying , judgements against judah and jerusalem , v. . and so on to the . . the procuring deserving cause of these overwhelming calamities , vers. . and . . the inevitablenesse of those judgements , and the inexorablenesse of the lord , as to the accomplishment of all the evill denounced , vers. . . the state and condition of the prophet , with the frame and deportment of his spirit , under those bitter dispensations of providence , vers. . and , , , . . the answer and appearance of god unto him upon the making out of his complaint , vers. , , , . and , , . my text lyeth in the last part , but yet with such dependance on the former , as inforceth to a consideration of them . . there is the denuntiation of fearfull wasting destroying judgements to sinfull jerusalem , vers. . and so onwards , with some interposed ejaculations , concerning her inevitable ruine , as vers. , . here 's death , sword , famine , captivity , vers. . banishment , v. . unpittied desolation , v. . redoubled destruction , bereaving , fanning , spoyling , &c. v. , , , . that universall devastation of the whole people , which came upon them in the babilonish captivity , is the thing here intended ; the meanes of its accomplishment by particuler plagues and judgements , in their severall kinds ( for the greater dread and terrour ) being at large annumerate : the faithfulnesse of god also being made hereby to shine more cleare , in the dispersion of that people ; doing , not onely for the maine , what before he had threatned , but in particular , executing the judgements recorded ; luke . . &c. deut. . . &c. fulfilling hereby what he had devised , accomplishing the word he had commanded in the dayes of old , lam. . . that which hence i shall observe is onely from the variety of these particulars , which are held out as the meanes of the intended desolation . gods treasures of wrath against a sinfull people , have sundry and various issues for the accomplishment of the appointed end . when god walkes contrary to a people , it is not alwayes in one path , he hath seven wayes to doe it , and will doe it seven times , levit. . . he strikes not alwayes with one weapon , nor in one place . as there is with him {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} manifold and various grace , pet. . . love and compassion making out it selfe in choice variety , suited to our manifold indigencies : so there is , {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} rom. . . stored , treasured wrath , suiting it selfe in its flowings out , to the provocations of stubborne sinners . the first embleme of gods wrath against man , was a flaming sword turning it selfe every way , gen. . last : not onely in one , or two , but in all their paths , he meeteth them with his flaming sword . as a wilde beast in a net , so are sinners under inexorable judgements ; the more they strive , the more they are enwrapt , and entangled . they shuffle themselves from under one calamity , and fall into another ; as if a man did flee from a lyon , and a beare mett him ; or went into the house and leaned his hand upon the wall , and a serpent bit him , amos . . oh remove this one plague , saith pharoah ; if hee can escape from under this pressure , he thinkes he shall be free : but , when he fled from the lyon , still the beare met him , and when he went into the house , the serpent bit him . and as the flaming sword turnes every way , so god can put it into every thing : to those that cry , give me a king , god can give him in his anger ; and from those , that cry , take him away , hee can take him away in his wrath , hosea . , . oh , that this might seale up instruction to our owne soules ; what variety of calamities have we beene exercised withall , for sundry yeares ? what pharoah-like spirits have we had under them ? oh that we were delivered this once , and then all were well ! how doe we spend all our thoughts to extricate our selves from our present pressures ? if this hedge , this pit were passed , wee should have smooth ground to walke in ! not considering that god can fill our safest pathes with snares and serpents : give us peace , give us wealth , give us , as we were , with our owne , in quietnesse . poore creatures ! suppose all these desires were in sincerity , and not as with the most they are , faire colours of soule and bloody designes ; yet if peace were , and wealth were , and former things were , and god were not ▪ what would it availe you ? cannot he poyson your peace , and canker your wealth ? and when you were escaped out of the field from the lyon and the beare , appoint a serpent to bite you , leaning upon the wals of your owne house ? in vaine doe you seek to stop the streames , while the fountaines are open ; turne your selves whither you will , bring your selves into what condition you can , nothing but peace and reconciliation with the god of all these judgements , can give you rest in the day of visitation : you see what variety of plagues are in his hand : changing of condition will doe no more to the avoiding of them , then a sick mans turning himselfe from one side of the bed to another ; during his turning , he forgets his paine by striving to move , being laid down againe , he findes his condition the same as before ; this is the first thing , we are under various judgements , from which by our selves there is no deliverance . the second thing here exprest , is the procuring cause of these various judgements set downe , v. . — because of manasseh sonne of hezekiah king of judah , for that which he did in jerusalem . the sinnes of manasseh filled the epha of judahs wickednesse , and caused the talent of lead to be laid on the mouth thereof . oftentimes in the relation of his story , doth the holy ghost emphatically expresse this ; that , for his sinne judah should surely be destroyed , kings . . yea when they had a little reviving under josiah , and the bowels of the lord began to worke in compassion towards them ; yet as it were , remembring the provocation of this manasseh , he recals his thoughts of mercy , kings . , . the disposing of divine and humane things , is oftentimes very oposite . god himselfe proceeds with them in a diverse dispensation : in the spirituall body the members offend and the head is punished : the iniquity of us all did meet on him , isa. . in the civill politick body , the head offends and the members rue it ; manasseh sins , and judah must goe captive . three things present themselves for the vindication of the equity of gods righteous judgments , in the recompencing the sins of the king upon the people . . the concurrence and influence of the peoples power into their rule and government : they that set him up , may justly be called to answer for his miscarriage . the lord himselfe had before made the sole bottom of that politicall administration to be their owne wills . if thou wilt have a king after the manner of the nation , deut. . . sam. . . though for particulars , himselfe ( according to his supreame soveraignty ) placed in many , by peculiar exemption , otherwise his providence was served by their plenary consent , or by such dispensation of things as you have related , kings . , . then were the people of israel divided into two parts , halfe of the people followed tibni the sonne of ginath to make him king , and halfe followed omri : but the people that followed omri prevailed against the people that followed tibni ; so tibni dyed , and omri reigned . now they , who place men in authority to be gods vicegerents doe undertake to god for their deportment in that authority , and therefore may justly beare the sad effects of their sinfull miscarriages . because for feare of manasse's cruelty , or to flatter him in his tyranny for their owne advantage , the greatest part of the people had apostatized from the wayes and worship of hezekiah , to comply with him in his sinne . as at another time they willingly walked after the commandement , hos. . . and this is plainly exprest , kings . . manasseh seduced the people to doe more evil then the nations . when kings turne seducers , they seldome want good store of followers : now if the blinde leade the blinde , both will , and both justly may fall into the ditch . when kings command unrighteous things , and people suite them with willing complyance , none doubts , but the destruction of them both is just and righteous . see vers . . of this chapter . . because the people by vertue of their retained ▪ soveraignty , did not restraine him in his provoking wayes . so zwinglius , artic. . qui non vetat , cum potest , jubet : when saul would have put jonathan to death , the people would not suffer him so to doe , but delivered jonathan that he dyed not , sam. . when david purposed the reducing of the arke , his speech to the people was ; if it please you , let us send abroad to our brethren every where , that they may assemble themselves to us , and all the congregation said that they would doe so , because the thing was right in their eyes , chron. . . so they bargaine with rehoboam about their subjection , upon condition of a moderate rule , kings . by vertue of which power also they delivered jeremiah from the prophets and priests that would have put him to death , ier. . . and on this ground might justly feed on the fruit of their own neglected duty . see bilson of obed. part . page . be it thus , or otherwise , by what way soever the people had their interest therein ; certaine it is , that for the sinnes of manasseh , one way or other , made their owne , they were destroyed : and therefore these things being written for our example , it cannot but be of great concernment to us , to know what were those sinnes which wrapt up the people of god in irrevocable destruction : now these the holy ghost fully manifesteth in the story of the life and reign of this manasseh , and they may all be reduced unto . chiefe heads . . false worship or superstition : he built high places , made altars for baal , and a grove as did ahab , kings . . . cruelty : hee shedde innocent blood very much , till hee had filled jerusalem with blood from one end of it to another , vers. . whether this cruelty be to be ascribed to his tyranny in civill affaires , and so the blood shed , is called innocent , because not of malefactors , or to his persecution , in subordination to his false worship instituted as before ( as the pope and his adherents have devoured whole nations in ordine ad spiritualia ) is not apparent : but this is from hence and other places most evident ; that superstition and persecution , will-worship and tyranny are inseparable concomitants . nebuchadnezzar sets up his great image , and the next news you heare , the saints are in the furnace , dan. . . you seldome see a fabricke of humane invented worship , but either the foundation or top-stone is laid in the blood of gods people . the wisdome ( religion , or way of worship ) that is from above , is first pure , then peaceable , gentle , easie to be entreated , full of mercy and good fruits , without partiality , without hypocrisie , james . . when the other is earthly , sensuall , devillish , bringging along envying , strife , contention , and every evill worke , vers. . persecution and blood is the genuine product of all invented worship . i might from hence name , and pursue other observations , but i shall only name one , and proceed . when false worship with injustice by cruelty have possessed the governours of a nation , and wrapt in the consent of the greatest part of the people ; who have been acquainted with the mind of god , that people and nation without unpresidented mercy is obnoxious to remedilesse ruine . those two are the bell and dragon , that what by their actings , what by their deservings , have swallowed that ocean of blood which hath flowed from the veines of millions of millions slaine upon the face of the earth . give mee the number of the witnesses of jesus , whose soules under the altar cry for revenge against their false worshipping murtherers , and the tale of them , whose lives have been sacrificed to the insatiable ambition and tyranny of blood-thirsty potentates , with the issues of gods just vengeance on the sons of men , for complyance in these two things , and you will have gathered in the whole harvest of blood , leaving but a few stragling gleanings upon other occasions . and if these things have been sound in england , and the present administration with sincere humiliation , doe not runne crosse to vnravell this close woven webb of destruction , all thoughts of recovery will quickly be too late . and thus far , sinne and providence drive on a parallel . . the inevitablenesse of the desolation threatned , and the inexorablenesse of god in the execution of it , v. . is the third thing considerable : though moses and samuel stood before mee , yet my minde could not be toward this people . should i insist upon this , it would draw me out unto scripture evidences , of a nations travelling in sinne , beyond the line of gods patience , and so not to be exempted from ruine : but instead thereof i shall make it a part of my daily supplications , that they may be to our enemies , if gods enemies , and the interpretation of them to those that hate us . in briefe , the words containe an impossible supposition , and yet a negation of the thing for whose sake it is supposed : moses and samuel were men , who in the dayes of their flesh offered up strong supplications , and averted many imminent judgements from a sinfull people ; as if the lord should say , all that i can doe in such a case as this , i would grant at the intercession of moses and samuel , or others interceding in their spirit and zeale ; but now the state of things is come to that passe , the time of treaty being expired , the black flagge hung out , and the decrree having brought forth , zeph. . . that upon their utmost intreaty it cannot , it shall not be reversed . there is a time when sin growes ripe for ruine ; for three transgressions and for foure the lord will not turne away the iniquity of a people , amos . . when the sinne of the amorites hath filled the cup of vengeance , they must drinke it , gen. . . england under severall administrations of civill government , hath fallen twice : yea thrice into nation-destroying sinnes ; providence hath once more given it another bottome ; if you should stumble ( which the lord avere ) at the same blocke of impiety and cruelty , there is not another sifting to be made to reserve any graines from the ground ; i doubt not but our three transgressions and foure will end in totall desolation , the lord be your guide , poor england lyeth at stake . the greatest difficulty that lyeth in bringing of totall destruction upon a sinfull people is in the interposition of moses and samuel ; if moses would but have stood out of the gap , and let the almighty goe , he had broken in upon the whole host of israel , exo. . , . and let it by the way be observed of the spirit of samuel , that when the people of god were most exorbitant , he cryeth , as for me , god forbid that i should sinne against the lord in ceasing to pray for you , sam. . . scarce answered by those , who if their interest be no served , or at best , their reason satisfied , will scarce yield a prayer for , yea powre out curses against their choisest deliverers : the lord lay it not to their charge ; for us seeing that praying deliverers are more prevalent then fighting deliverers ( it is though moses and samuel , not gideon and sampson , stood before me ) as some decay , let us gather strength in the lord , that bee may have never the more rest for their giving over , untill hee establish mount zyon a praise in the earth . . come we now to the fourth thing in this chapter ; the prophets state and condition with the frame and deportment of his heart and spirit under these dispensations , and here we find him expressing two things of himselfe . . what he found from others , v. . . what hee wrestled withall in his owne spirit , v. , , , . . what he found from others , he telleth you , it was cursing and reproach , &c. i have neither lent on usury , nor have men lent to me on usury yet every one of them doth curse me , v. . now this returne may be considered two wayes . . in it selfe , every one ( saith he ) of this people curse me . . in reference to his deportment : i have neither borrowed nor lent on usury yet they curse me . from the first , observe : instruments of gods greatest workes and glory , are often times the chiefest objects of a professing peoples curses and revenges . the returne which gods labourers meet withall in this generation , is in the number of those things , whereof there is none new under the sun . men , that under god , deliver a kingdom , may have the kingdoms curses for their paines . when moses had brought the people of israel out of bondage , by that wonderfull and unparallel'd deliverance , being forced to appeare with the lord for the destruction of corah and his associates , who would have seduced the congregation to its utter ruine , he receives at length this reward of all his travell , labour and paines , all the congregation gathered themselves against him and aaron , laying murther and sedition to their charge , telling them they had killed the people of the lord , numb. . , . a goodly reward for all their travels : if gods workes doe not suite with the lusts , prejudices , and interests of men , they will labour to give his instruments the devills wayes . let not upright hearts sink , because they meet with thanklesse men , bona agere , & mala pati christianorum est . a man may have the blessing of god , and the curse of a professing people at the same time . behold i and the children wbom god hath given me , are for signes and for wonders in israel , isa. . . cum ab hominibus damnamur , à deo absolvimur : mans condemnation and gods absolution , doe not seldome meet upon the same persons , for the same things : if you labour to doe the worke of the lord , pray think it not strange , if among men , curses be your reward and detestation your wages . . in reference to the prophets deportment , he had neither lent nor had any lent to him upon usury ; he was free from blame among them , had no dealings with them , in those things which are usually attended with reproaches , as he shews by an instance in usuary , a thing that a long time hath heard very ill . men every way blamelesse and to be embraced in their owne wayes are oftentimes abhorred and laden with curses , for following the lord in his wayes . bonus vir cajus sejus , sed malus quia christianus ; what precious men should many be , would they let goe the work of god in this generation ? no advantage against them , but in the matter of their god , and that is enough to have them to the lyons , dan. . . he that might be honoured for compassing the ends suiting his owne worldly interest , and will cheerefully undergoe dishonour for going beyond , to suit the designe of god , hath surely some impression upon his spirit , that is from above . . you have the prophets deportment , and the frame of his spirit during those transactions between the lord and that sinfull people : and this he holds out in many patheticall complaints , to be fainting , decaying , perplexed , weary of his burden , not knowing how to ease himselfe , as you may see at large , v. , , , . in darke and difficult dispensations of providence , gods choisest servants are oftentimes ready to faint under the burthen of them . how weary was david when he cryed out in such a condition , o that i had wings like a dove , for then would i flie away and be at rest , psal. . . long had he waited for a desired issue of his perplexed state , and had perhaps often times been frustrated of his hope of drawing to a period of his miseries , and now finding one disappointment to follow on the neck of another , he is weary and cries , what nothing , but this trouble and confusion still ? oh that i had wings like a dove , a ship to saile to a forraigne nation ( or the like ) there to be at peace . in the like strait another time , see what a miserable conclusion he draws , of all his being exercised under the hand of god , psal. . . verily i have clensed my heart in vaine , and wished my hands in innocency ; and againe , psal. . . he saith in the perturbation of his mind , all men are lyars : that all the promises , all the encouragements , which in his way he had received from god should faile of their accomplishment . it is not with them , as it was with that wicked king of israel , who being disappointed of peace and del●verance in his owne time , crys out , this evill is of the lord , why should i waite upon him any longer , kings . . the season of deliverance suited not his exp●ctation ; therefore he quite throweth off the lord and his protection . not unlike many among our selves , whose desires and expectations being not satisfied in the closing of our distractions , according to the way , which themselves had framed for the lord to walke in , are ready to cast off his cause , his protection to comply with the enemies of his name , si deus homini non placuerit , deus non erit : but it may be observed , that deliverance came not to that people untill jehoram was weary of waiting , and then instantly god gives it in ; when god hath tyred the patience of corrupted men , he will speak peace to them , that wait for him . thus is it not with the saints of god , onely being perplexed in their spirits , darke in their apprehensions , and fainting in their strength , they breake out oft times into passionate complaints ( as jeremy for a cottage in the wildernesse ) but yet for the maine holding firme to the lord : and the reasons of this quailing are : . the weaknesse of faith , when the methods of god's proceedings are unfath mable to our apprehensions ; while men see the paths wherein the lord walketh , they can follow him through some difficulties ; but when that is hid from them , though providence so shut up all other wayes , that it is impossible god should be in them , yet if they cannot discerne ( so proud are they ) how he goeth in that wherein he is , they are ready to faint and give over . god is pleased sometime to make darknesse his pavilion and his secret place , a fire devoures before him , and it is very tempestuous round about him , psal. . . when once god is attended with fire , darknesse , and tempest , because we cannot so easily see him , we are ready to leave him : now this the lord usually doth in the execution of his judgements , thy righteousnesse is like the great mountaines , thy judgements are a great deep , psal. . . his righteousnesse , his kindnesse is like a great mountaine , that is easie to be seen , a man cannot overlooke it , unlesse he wilfully shut his eyes ; but his judgements are like the great deepe ; who can look into the bottome of the sea , or know what is done in the depths thereof ? gods works in their accomplishment are oftentimes so unsuited to the reasons and apprehensions of men , that very many who have been strong in desires , and great in expectation of them , upon their bringing forth to light , have quite rejected and opposed them as none of his , because distant from what they had framed to themselves : it is evident from the gospel , that the people of the jewes were full of expectation and longing for the great work of the comming of the messias , just at the season wherein he came , yet being come , because not accommodated to their prae imaginations , they rejected him , as having neither forme nor comelinesse in him to be desired , isa. . . and the prophet amos telleth many , who desired the day of the lord , that , that day should be darknesse to them and not light , amos . , . so in every generation many desirers of the accomplishment of gods work , are shaken off from any share therein , by finding it unsuited to their reasons and expectations . now when the lord is pleased thus to walke in darknesse , many being not able to trace him in his dispensations , are ready to lye downe and sink under the burden : david seemes to professe , that he had nothing at such a time to uphold him but this , that god must be there , or no where ; i had said ( saith he ) that it was in vaine to walke as i doe , but that i should have condemned the generation of thy children , psal. . . and truely god never leaves us without to much light , but that we may see clearly where he is not , and so by recounting particulars we may be rolled where he is , though his goings there be not so clear . aske if god be in the counsels of men , who seek themselves , and in the ways of those who make it their designe to ruine the generation of the just . if you finde him there , seek no further ; if not , let that give you light , to discerne , where hee makes his abode , that you turne not aside to the flocks of others . . a reducing the works of providence to inbred rules of our owne . but this i cannot pursue . be tender toward fainters in difficult seasons ; if they leave waiting on the lord , because the evill is of him , if they cast in their lot with the portion of the ungodly , they will in the end perish in their gainsaying : but as for such , as what for want of light , what for want of faith , sit downe and sigh in darknesse , be not too hasty in laying further burdens on them : when first the confederacy was entred into , by the protestant princes in germany against charles the fift , luther himselfe for a season was bewildred , and knew not what to doe , untill being instructed in the fundamentall laws of the empire , he sate downe fully in that undertaking , though the lord gave it not the desired issue , sleid. com. lib. . our saviour christ askes , if when becomes , hee shall finde faith on the earth , luke . . it is his comming with the spirit of judgement and burning , a day of tryall and visitation , he there speaks of : now what faith shall he want , which will not be found in that day ? not the faith of adherence to himselfe for spirituall life and justification , but of actuall closing with him in the things he then doth ; that shall be rare , many shall be staggered , and faint in that day . and thus by the severall heads of this chapter , have i led you through the very state and condition of this nation at this time . first , variety of judgements are threatned to us , and incumbent on us , as in the first part . secondly , of these , falsew orship , superstition , tyranny , and cruelty lye in the bottome , as their procuring causes , which is the second . thirdly , these if renewed under your hand , will certainely bring inevitable ruine upon the whole nation , which is the third . fourthly , all which , make many precious hearts , what for want of light , what for want of faith , to faile , and cry out , for the wings of a dove , which is the fourth . i come in the fift place to gods direction to you for the future , in this state and condition , which being spread in diverse verses as the lord gives it to the prophet , i shall meddle with no more of it , then is contained in the words , which at our entrance i read unto you . let them returne , &c. in the words observe foure things , . gods direction to the prophet , and in him , to all , that doe his worke in such a season , as this describe● : let them returne to thee , returne not thou to them . . their assistance and supportment in pursuance of that direction : i will make thee , to this people , a brazen fenced wall . . the opposition , with its successe and issue , which in that way , they should meet withall : they shall fight against thee , and shall not prevaile . . their consolation and successe from the presence of the lord : for i am with thee to deliver thee , &c. . there is gods direction , many difficulties in this troublesome season , was the prophet intricated withall : the people would not be prevailed with , to come up to the mind of god , they continuing in their stubbornnesse , the lord would not be prevailed with , to avert the threatned desolation ; what now shall he doe ? to stand out against the bnlke of the people suits not his earthly interest ; to couple with them , answers not the discharge of his office ; to wait upon them any longer , is fruitlesse ; to give up himselfe to their ways comfortlesse : hence his complaints , hence his moanings . better lye downe and sink under the burden , then always to swim against the streame of an unreformable multitude : in this strait , the lord comes in with his direction , let them returne unto thee , &c. keep thy station , performe thy duty , comply not with the children of backslyding . but what ever be the essue , if there be any closing wrought , let it be , by working them off from their wayes of folly . all condescention on thy part , where the worke of god is to be done is in opposition to him ; if they return , embrace them freely ; if not , doe thy duty constantly . that which is spoken immediately to the prophet , i shall hold out to all , acting in the name and authority of god , in this generall proposition . plausible complyances of men in authority , with those , against whom they are employed , are treacherous contrivances against the god of heaven , by whom they are employed . if god be so provoked , that he curseth him , who doth his worke negligently , what is he by them that do it treacherously ? when he gives a sword into the hands of men , and they thrust it into his owne bowels , his glory and honour , those things so deare to him ? he that is intrusted with it , and dares not doe justice on every one , that dares doe injustice , is affraid of the creature , but makes very bold with the creator . prov. . . it is the glory of god to conceale a thing , but it is the glory of a king to finde out a matter : that which god aimeth to be glorious in , to manifest his attributes by , is the concealing and covering our iniquities in christ ; but if the magistrate will have glory , if he will not bring upon himselfe dishonour by dishonouring of god , he is to search and finde out the transgressions , with whose cognizance he is entrusted , and to give unto them condigne retribution . if the lord curse them , who come not forth to his helpe against the mighty , judg. . . what is their due , who being called forth by him , doe yet helpe the mighty against him ? for a man to take part with the kingdomes enemies is no small crime ; but for a commission-officer to runne from them by whom he is commissionated , to take part with the adversary , is death without mercy : yet have not some in our dayes arrived at that stupendious impudence , that when as private persons they have declaimed against the enemies of the nation , and by that means got themselves into authority , they have made use of that authority to comply with , and uphold those , by an opposition to whom , they got into their authority ? which is no lesse then an atheisticall attempt to personate the almighty , unto such iniquities as without his appearance , they dare not owne : but he that justifieth the wicked , and condemneth the just , are both an abhomination to the lord , prov. . . and not only to the lord , but to good men also ; he that saith to the wicked , thou art righteous , him shall the people curse , nations shall abhor him , prov. . . i speake only as to the generall ( for mee let all particulers find mercy ) with a sad remembrance of the late workings of things amongst us , with those vile sordid compliances which grew upon the spirits of magistrates and ministers with those , whose garments were died with the blood of gods saints and precious ones ( as formerly they were called , for now these names are become termes of reproach ) and would this complying went alone , but pretences and accusations must be found out against such as fellow with them , when they begin to call darkenesse light , they will ere long call light darkness : by which meanes , our eyes have seen , men of their owne accord laying down the weapons werewith at first they fought against opposers , and taking up them , which were used against themselves , as hath happened more then once , to pen-men both in our own , and our neighbour nation . now this revolting from principles of religion and righteousnesse , to a complyance with any sinfull way or person , is a treacherous opposition to the god of heaven ; for , . it cannot be done but by preferring the creature before the creator , especially in those things which are the proximate causes of deviation . two principall causes i have observed of this crooked walking . . feare . . that desire of perishing things , which hath a mixture of covetousnesse and ambition . the first maketh men wary , what they doe against men , the other maketh them weary of doing any thing for god , as whereby their sordid ends are not like to be accomplished . . feare : when once magistrates begin to listen after quid sequitur's , and so to with-draw from doing good , for feare of suffering evill , paths of wickedness are quickly returned unto , and the authority of god despised . let this man goe , and take heed of caesar , john . . did more prevaile on pilat's treacherous heart , then all the other clamours of the jewes ; yea , was not the whole sanedrim swayed to desperate villany , for feare the romans should come and take away their kingdome ? john . . when men begin once to distrust that god will leave them in the bryars , to wrestle it out themselves ( for unbeliefe lyeth at the bottome of carnall feare ) they quickely turne themselves to contrivances of their owne , for their owne safety , their owne prosperity , which commonly is by obliging those unto them by compliances , in an opposition to whom they might oblige the almighty to their assistance : surely they conclude hee wants either truth or power to support them in his employment . if a prince should send an embassadour to a forreigne state to treat about peace , or to denounce war ; who , when hee comes there , distrusting his masters power to make good his undertaking , should comply and winde up his interest with them to whom he was sent , suffering his soveraign● errant to fall to the ground , would hee not be esteemed as arrant a traitor as ever lived ? and yet though this be clipt coine among men , it is put upon the lord every day as currant . from this principle of carnall feare and unbeliefe , trembling for a man that shall dye , and the son of man that shall be as grasse , forgetting the lord our maker , isa. . . are all those prudential follies , which exercise the mindes of most men in authority , making them , especially in times of difficulties , to regulate and square all their proceedings , by what suites their owne safety and particular interests , counselling , advising , working for themselves , quite forgetting by whom they are entrusted , and whose businesse they should doe . . a desire of perishing things tempered with covetousness and ambition : hence was the sparing of the fat cattell , and of agag by saul , . sam. . when those two qualifications close on any , they are diametrally opposed to that frame which of god is required in them , viz. that they should be men fearing god , and hating covetousnesse : the first will goe far , being only a contrivance for safety ; but if this latter take hold of any , being a consultation to exalt themselves , it quickly carryeth them beyond all bounds whatsoever . the lord grant , that hereafter there may be no such complaints in the nation , or may be causelesse , as have been heretofore , viz. that wee have powred out our prayers , jeoparded our lives , wasted our estates , spent our blood , to serve the lusts and compasse the designs of ambitious ungodly men . the many wayes whereby these things intrench upon the spirits of men , to byasse them from the paths of the lord , i shall not insist upon , it is enough that i have touched upon the obvious causes of deviation , and manifested them to be treacheries against the god of all authority . be exhorted to beware of relapses , with all their causes and inducements , and to be constant to the way of righteousnesse , and ●his i shall hold out unto you in two particulars . . labour to recover others , even all that were ever distinguished and called by the name of the lord , from their late fearfull returning to sinfull complyances with the enemies of god and the nation : i speak not of mens persons , but of their wayes ; for . yeares this people have been eminently sicke of the folly of back●sliding , and without some speciall cordiall are like to perish in it , as farre as i know . looke upon the estate of this people as they were differenced seven yeares agoe , so for some continuance , and as they are now , and you shall find in how many things we have returned to others , and not one instance to be given of their returne to us ; that this may be clear take some partciulars . . in words and expressions , those are index animi ; turne them over and you may find what is in the whole heart . out of the aboundance of the heart the mouth speaketh . now is not that language , are not those very expressions , which filled the mouths of the common adversaries onely , grown also terms of reproach upon the tongues of men , that suffered sometimes under them , and counted it their honour so to do ? hence that common exprobation , a parliament of saints , an army of saints , and such like d●●●sions of gods ways , now plentifull with them , who sate sometimes , and tooke sweete counsell with us ▪ ah! had it not been more for the honour of god , that we had kept our station , untill others had come to us , so to have exalted the name and profession of the gospel , then that we should so return to them , as to joyne with them in making the paths of christ a reproach ? had it not beene better for us with judah to continue ruling with god , & to be faithfull with the saints , hos. . . then to stand in the congregation of the mockers , and to sit in the seate of the scornefull ? what shall we say when the saints of god are as signes and wonders to be spoken against in israel ? isa. . . oh that men would remember how they have left their first station ; when themselves use those reproaches unto others , which for the same cause themselves formerly bare with comfort ! it is bitternesse to consider how the gospel is scandalized by this wofull returne of ministers and people , by casting scripturall expressions by way of scorn , on those , with whom they were sometimes in the like kind companions of contempt . surely in this we are returned to them , and not they to us . . in actions and those , . of religion , not only in opinion , but practise also , are we here under a vile returne . we are become the lyons , and the very same thoughts entertained by us , against others , as were exercised towards our selves . are not others as unworthy to live upon their native soile in our judgements , as we our selves in the judgements of them formerly over us ? are not groanes for liberty , by the warmth of favour , in a few yeares hatched into attempts for tyranny ? and for practise , what hold hath former superstition in observing dayes and times , laid hold upon the many of the people again , witness the late solemn superstition , and many things of the like nature . . for civill things , the closing of so many , formerly otherwise engaged , with the adverse party in the late rebellion , with the lukewarm deportment of others at the same time , is a sufficient demonstration of it ; and may not the lord justly complain of all this , what iniquity have you seene in mee , or my wayes , that you are gone farre from me , and walked after vanity , and are become vaine , jer. . . why have you changed your glory for that which doth not profit , vers. . have i beene a dry heath , or a barren wildernesse to you ? oh that men should find no more sweetness in following the lambe under wonderfull protections , but that they should thus turne aside into every wildernesse : what indignity is this to the wayes of god ? i could give you many reasons of it ; but i have done , what i intended , a little hinted , that wee are a returning people , that so you might be exhorted to help for a recovery : and how shall that be ? . by your owne keeping close to the paths of righteousnesse ; if you returne not , others will look about again : this breach , this evill is of you , within your own walls , was the fountaine of our backesliding . would you be the repairers of breaches , the restorers of paths for men to walke in , doe these two things . . turne not to the wayes of such , as the lord hath blasted under your eyes , and these may be referred to . heads . . oppression . . selfe-seeking . . contrivances for persecution . . oppression , how detestable a crime it is in the eyes of the almighty , what effects it hath upon men , making wise men madde , eccl. . . how frequently it closeth in the calamitous ruine of the oppressours themselves , are things known to all . whether it hath not been exercised in this nation , both in generall by unnecessary impositions , and in particular by unwarrantable pressures , let the mournfull cryes of all sorts of people testifie . should you now return to such wayes as these , would not the anger of the lord smoake against you ? make it i bseech you your designe to relieve the whole , by all meanes possible , and to relieve particulars , yea even of the adverse party where too much overborn . oh let it be considered by you , that it be not considered upon you . i know the things you are necessitated to , are not to be supported by the aire . it is only what is unnecessary as to you , or insupportable as to othes , that requires your speedy reforming ; that so it may be said of you as of nehemiah , chap. . , . and for particulars ( pray pardon my folly and boldness ) i heartily desire a committee of your honourable house might sit once a week , to relieve poor men that have been oppressed by men , sometimes enjoying parliamentary authority . . selfe-seeking , when men can be content to lay a nation low , that they may set up themselves upon the heapes and ruines thereof . have not some sought to advance themselves under that power , which with the lives and blood of the people they have opposed ? seeming to be troubled at former things , not because they were done , but because they were not done by them . but innocent blood will be found a tottering foundation for men to build their honours , greatnesse , and preferments upon . o returne not in this unto any . if men serve themselves of the nation , they must expect that the nation will serve it selfe upon them . the best security you can possibly have that the people will performe their duty in obedience , is the witnesse of your own consciences , that you have discharged your duty towards them , in seeking their good , by your owne trouble , and not your owne advantages in their trouble . i doubt not but that in this , your practice makes the admonition a commendation , otherwise the word spoken , will certainly witnesse against you . . contrivances for persecution , how were the hearts of all men hardned like the nether mill-stone , and their thoughts did grinde blood and revenge against their brethren ! what colours , what pretences had men invented to prepare a way for the rolling of their garments in the teares : yea blood of christians . the lord so keep your spirits from a compliance herein , that with all the bowe be not too much bent on the other side , which is not impossible . be there a backsliding upon your spirit to these , or such like things as these , the lord will walke contrary to you , and were you as the signet upon his hand , he would pluck you off . . returne not to the open enemies of our peace : i could here inlarge my selfe to support your spirits in the work mentioned , job . , . but i must on to the following parts of my text , and passe from the direction given , to the supportment , and assistance promised . i will make thee to this people a brazen and a fenced wall . an implyed objection , which the prophet might put in , upon his charge to keep so close to the rule of righteousnesse , is here removed . if i must thus abide by it , to execute whatsoever the lord cals me out unto , not shrinking , nor staggering at the greatest undertakings , what will become of me in the issue ? will it not be destructive to stand out against a confirmed people ? no , saith the lord , it shall not be : i will make thee , &c. god will certainly give in prevailing strength , and unconquerable defence unto persons constantly discharging the duties of righteousnesse , especially when undertaken in times of difficulty and opposition . i will make thee , &c. the like engagement to this you have , made to ezekiel , chap. , , . neither was it so to the prophets alone , but to magistrates also when joshua undertook the regency of israel in a difficult time , he takes of his feare and diffidence with this very incouragement , josh. . . he saith he will make them a wall , the best defence against opposition , and that not a weake tottering wall , that might easily be cast downe , but a brazen wall , that must needs be impregnable : what engines can possibly prevaile against a wall of brasse ? and to make it more secure , this brazen wall shall be fenced with all manner of fortifications , and ammunition ; so that the veriest coward in the world , being behind such a wall , may without dread or terrour apply himselfe to that , which he findeth to doe . god will so secure the instruments of his glory against a backeslyding people in holding up the wayes of his truth and righteousnesse , that all attempts against them shall be vaine , and the most timorous spirit may be secure , provided he goe not out of the lords way ; for if they be found beyond the line , the brazen wall , they may easily be surprized . and indeed , who but a foole would run from the shelter of a brazen wall , to hide himselfe in a little stubble ? and yet so doe all who runne to their owne wisedome , from the most hazardous engagement that any of the wayes of god can possibly lead them unto . it is a sure word , and for ever to be rested upon , which the lord gives in to asa , chron. . . the lord is with you , while yee be with him : an unbiased magistracy , shall never want gods continued presence : very jeroboam himselfe receives a promise upon condition of close walking with god in righteous administrations , of having an house built him like the house of david , kings . . what a wall was god to moses in that great undertaking of being instrumentall for the delivery of israel from a bondage and slavery of foure hundred yeares continuance : pharoah was against him whom he had deprived of his soveraignty and dominion over the people : and what a provocation the depriving of soveraignty is unto potentates , needs no demonstration : to the corruption of nature which inclines to heights and exaltations , in imitation of the fountaine whence is flowes ; they have also the corruption of state and condition , which hath alwayes enclined to absolutenesse and tyranny : all egypt was against him , as being by him visibly destroyed , wasted , spoyled , robbed , and at length smitten in the apple of the eye , by the losse of their first borne ; and if this be not enough , that the king and people , whom he opposed were his enemies , the very people , for whose sakes he set himsele to oppose the others , they also rise up against him , yea seek to destroy him ; one time they appeale to god for justice against him , exod. . . the lord looke upon you and judge . they appeale to the righteous god to witnesse , that he had not fulfilled what he promised them , to wit , liberty , safety , and freedome from oppression , but that rather by his meanes their burdens were encreased : and in this they were so confident ( like some amongst us ) that they appealed unto god for the equity of their complaints . afterward being reduced to a strait , such as they could not see how possibly they should be extricated from , without utter ruine ( like our present condition in the apprehension of some ) they cry out upon him for the whole designe of bringing them into the wildernesse , and affirme positively , that though they had perished in their former slavery , it had been better for them , then to have followed him in this new and dangerous engagement , ex. . , , . that generation being ( as calvin observes ) so inured to bondage , that they were altogether unfit to beare with the workings and pangs of their approaching liberty . afterwards , doe they want drink ? moses is the cause ; did they want meate ? this moses would starve them , exod. . . and . . he could not let them alone by the flesh-pots of egypt , for this they are ready to stone him , exod. . . at this day , have we too much raine , or too short a harvest , it is laid on the shoulders of the present government . it was no otherwise of old . at length this people came to that height , as being frightened by the opposition , they heard of , and framed to themselves in that place whether moses would carry them , that they presently enter into a conspiracy and revolt , consulting to cast off his government , and chose new commanders , and with a violent hand to returne to their former condition , numb. . . an attempt as frequent at fruitlesse among our selves . when this would not doe , at length upon the occasion of taking off corah and his company , they assemble themselves together , and lay ( not imprisonment but ) murder to his charge , and that of the people of the lord , numb. . . now what was the issue of all those oppositions ? what effect had they ? how did the power of pharoah , the revenge of egipt , the backsliding of israel prevaile ? why god made this one moses a fenced brazen wall to them all , he was never in the least measure prevailed against ; so long as he was with god , god was with him , no matter who was against him . one thing onely would i commend to your considerations , viz. that this moses , thus preserved , thus delivered , thus protected , falling into one deviation , in one thing , from close following the lord , was taken off from enjoying the closure and fruit of all his labour , numb. . . otherwise he followed the lord in a difficult season , and did not want unconquerable supportment : take heed of the smallest turning aside from god : oh loose not the fruit of all your labour for selfe ; for a lust , or any thing that may turne you aside . now the lord will doe this , . because of his owne engagement . . for our incouragement . . because of his owne engagement , and that is two fold , . of truth and fidelity . . of honour and glory . . his truth and veracity is ingaged in it . those that honour him he will honour , sam. . . if men honour him with obedience , he will honour them with preservation : he will be with them while they are with him , chron. . . while they are with him in constancy of duty , he will be with them to keep them in safety , he will never leave them nor forsake them , josh. . . no weapon that is framed against them shall prosper , isa. . . now god is never as the waters that faile to any that upon his ingagements waite for him ; he will not shame the faces of them that put their trust in him . why should our unbeleeving spirits charge that upon the god of truth , which wee dare not impute to a man that is a worme , a lyar ? will a man faile in his ingagement unto him , who upon that ingagement undertakes a difficult imployment for his sake ? the truth is , it is either want of sincerity in our working , or want of faith in dependance , that makes us at any time come short of the utmost tittle , that is in any of the lords engagements . . we want sincerity , and doe the lords work , but with our owne aimes and ends , like jehu ; no wonder , if we be left to our selves for our wages and defence . . we want faith also in the lords worke , turne to our owne counsels for supportment ; no marvell , if we come short of assistance ; if we will not beleeve we shall not be established . looke to sinceritie in working , and faith in dependance , gods truth and fidelity will carry him out to give you inconquerable supportment : deflexion from these , will be your destruction : you that are working on a new bottome , worke also on new principles , put not new wine into old bottles , new designes into old hearts . secondly , he is engaged in point of honour , if they miscarry in his way , what will he doe for his great name ? yea so tender is the lord herein of his glory , that when he hath been exceedingly provoked to remove men out of his presence yet because they have been called by his name , and have visibly held forth a following after him , he would not suffer them to be trodden downe , left the enemy should exalt themselves , and say , where is now their god ? they shall not take from him the honour of former deliverances and protections : in such a nation as this , if the lord now upon manifold provocations should give up parliament , people , army to calamity , and ruine , would not the glory of former counsels , successes , deliverances , be utterly lost ? would not men say it was not the lord , but chance that happened to them ? . for our encouragement , the wayes of god are oftentimes attended with so many difficulties , so much opposition , that they must be imbraced meerly because his ; no other motive in the world can suit them to us . i meane for such as keep them immixed from their owne carnall and corrupt interests : now because the lord will not take off the hardship and difficulty of them , least he should not have the honour of carrying on his work , against tumultuating opposition , hee secures poore weaklings of comfortable assistance , and answerable successe , lest his worke should be wholy neglected . it is true , the lord as our soveraigne master may justly require a close labouring in all his wayes , without the least sweetning endearments put upon them , onely as they are his whose we are , who hath a dominion over us : but yet as a a tender father , in which relation he delights to exercise his will towards his owne in christ , hee pittieth our infirmities , knowing that we are but dust : and therefore to invite us into the darke , into ways laboursome and toylesome to flesh and blood , he gives us in this security , that we shall be as a fenced brazen wall to the opposing sons of men . to discover the vanity and folly of all opposition to men called forth of god to doe his worke , and walking in his wayes ; would you not thinke him mad , that should strike with his fist , and run with his head against a fenced brazen wall to cast it downe ? is he like to have any successe , but the battering of his flesh , and the beating out of his braines ? what doe the waves obtaine by dashing themselves with noise and dread against a rocke , but their owne beating to peeces ? what prevailes a man by shooting his arrows against the skie , but a returne upon his owne head ? nor is the most powerfull opposition to the ways of god , like to meet with better successe : god looks no otherwise upon opposers , then you would do upon a man attempting to thrust downe a fenced brazen wall with his fingers . therefore it is said , that in their proudest attempts , strongest assaults , deepest counsels , combinations , and associations , he laughs them to scorne , derides their folly , contemns their fury , lets them sweat in vaine , untill their day become , psal. . how birthlesse in our owne , as other generations have been their swelling conceptions ? what then is it that prevailes upon men to break through so many disappointments against the lord , as they doe ? doubtlesse that of isa. . . surely the lord of hosts hath a purpose to staine the pride of all glory , to bring into contempt all the honourable of the earth . god gives up men unto it , that he may leave no earthly glory or honour without pollution or contempt : and therefore hath opposition in our dayes , been turned upon so many hands , that god might leave no glory without contempt : yet with this difference , that if the lord will owne them , he will recover them from their opposition , as hath happened of late to the ministry of one , and will happen ere long to the ministry of another nation ; when the lord hath a little stain'd the pride of their glory ; they shall bee brought home againe by the spirit of judgement and burning : but if he owne them not , they shall perish under the opposition . and when it hath been wheeled about on all sorts of men , the end will be . be wise now therefore o yee rulers , be instructed yee that are judges of the earth , serve the lord with feare , and rejoyce with trembling , psalm . , . see whence your assistance commeth ; see where lye the ●●●s of your salvation , and say , ashur shall not save us , we will not ride upon horses , neither will we say any more to the workes of our hands , yee are our gods , for in thee the fatherlesse findeth mercy , hos. . . it is god alone who is a sunne and a shield : his wayes doe good to the upright in heart . behold , here is a way to encompasse england with a brazen wall : let the rulers of it walke in right wayes , with upright hearts . others have beene carefull to preserve the people to them , and the city to them , oh be you careful to preserve your god unto you ; he alone can make you a fenced wall ; if he departs , your wall departs , your shade departs . give me leave to insist a little on one particular , which i choose out among many others : when god leades out his people to any great things , the angel of his presence is still among them : see at large exod. . , , . the angel of the covenant , in whom is the name of god , that hath power of pardoning or retaining transgressions , jesus christ , the angel that redeemeth his out of all their troubles , gen. . . hee is in the middest of them , and amongst them ; and god gives this speciall caution if we would have his assistance , that we should beware of him , and obey him , and provoke him not : would you then have gods assistance continued , take heed of provoking the angel of his presence : provoke him not by slighting of his wayes , provoke him not by contemning his ordinances ; if you leave him to deale for himselfe , he will leave you to shift for your selves : what though his followers are at some difference ( the best knowing but in part ) about the administration of some things in his kingdome ; the envious one having also sown some bitter seeds of persecution , strife , envy , and contention among them ? what though some poor creatures are captivated by sathan , the prince of pride , to a contempt of all his ordinances , whose soules i hope the lord will one day free from the snare of the devill ? yet i pray give me leave ( it is no time to contest , or dispute it ) to beare witnesse in the behalfe of my master to this one truth , that if by your owne personall practise and observance , your protection , countenance , authority , laws , you doe not assert , maintaine , uphold the order of the gospel , and administration of the ordinances of christ , notwithstanding the noise and clamours of novell fancies , which like jonah's gourd have sprung up in a night , and will wither in a day , you will be forsaken by the angel of gods presence , and you wil become an astonishment to all the inhabitants of the earth : and herein i do not speak as one haesitating or dubious , but positively assert it , as the known mind of god , and whereof he wil not suffer any long to doubt , psalm . ult. strengthen the weake hands , and confirme the feeble knees , say to them that are of a fearefull heart , be strong , feare not , behold your god will come with vengeance , even your god with a recompence , he will come and save you , isa. . , . let the most weak and fearful , the fainting heart , the trembling spirit , and the doubting mind know , that full and plenary security , perfect peace attends the upright in the wayes of god . you that are in gods way , doe gods worke , and take this cordiall for all your distempers , return not to former provoking wayes , and he will make you a fenced brazen wall . and so i come to the third thing , which i proposed to consider , the opposition , which men cleaving to the lord in all his ways shal find , with the issue and success of it , they shal fight against thee , but shall not prevaile . the words may be considered either as a prediction depending on gods praescience , of what will be , or a commination from his just judgement , of what shall be . in the first sence the lord tells the prophet , from the corruption , apostacy , stubbornnesse of that people what would come to passe . in the d , what for their sins and provocations , by his just judgement should come to passe . time will not allow me to handle the words in both acceptations : wherefore i shall take up the latter only , viz. that it is a commination of what shall be for the further misery of that wretched people , they shall judicially be given up to a fighting against him . god oftentimes gives up a sinfull people to a fruitlesse contention , and fighting with their only supporters , and meanes of deliverance . they shall , &c. jeremiah had laboured with god for them , and with them for god , that if possible peace being made they might be delivered , and to consummate their sins , they are given up to fight against him . i cannot now insist upon particular instances , consult the history of the church in all ages , you shall find it continually upon all occasions verified . from the israelites opposing moses , to the ephraimites contest with jephte , the rejecting of samuel , and so on to the kings of the earth , giving their power to the beast to wage warre with the lamb , with the inhabitants of the world combining against the witnesses of christ , is this assertion held out . in following story , no sooner did any plague or judgement breake out against the roman empire , but instantly , christianos ad leones , their fury must be spent upon them , who were the onely supporters of it from irrecoverable ruine . now the lord doth this , . to seale up a sinfull peoples destruction . elie's sonnes hearkened not , because the lord would slay them , sam. . . when god intends ruine to a people , they shall walk in wayes , that tend thereunto : now is their a readier way for a man to have a house on his head , then by pulling away the pillars whereby it is supported ? if by moses standing in the gap , the fury of the lord be turned away , certainely if the people contend to remove him , their desolation sleepeth not . when therefore the lord intends to lay cities wast without inhabitant , and houses without men , to make a land utterly desolate , the way of its accomplishment is by making the hearts of the people fat , and their eares heavy , and shutting their eyes that they should not see , and attend to the meanes of their recovery , isa. . , . so gathering in his peace and mercies from a provoking people , jer. . . . to manifest his owne power and soveraignty in maintaining a small handfull , oftimes a few single persons , a moses , a samuel , two witnesses against the opposing rage of a hardned multitude . if those who undertake his worke and businesse in their severall generations , should have withall , the concurrent obedience and assistance of others , whose good is intended , neither would his name be so seen , nor his wayes so honoured , as now , when he beares them up against all opposition . had not the people of this land been given up ( many of them ) to fight against the deliverers of the nation , and were it not so with them even at this time , how darke would have been the workings of providence , which now by wrestling through all opposition are so conspicuous and cleare . when then a people , or any part of a people , have made themselves unworthy of the good things intended to be accomplished by the instruments of righteousnesse and peace , the lord will blow upon their waves , that with rage and fury , they shall dash themselves against them , whom he will strengthen with the munition of rocks , not to be prevailed against . so that gods glory and their owne ruine , lye at the bottome of this close working of providence , in giving up a sinfull people to a fruitlesse contending , with their owne deliverers , if ever they be delivered . but is not a peoples contending with the instruments , by whom god worketh amongst them , and for them , a sin and provocation to the eyes of his glory ? how then can the lord be said to give them up unto it ? avoyding all scholasticall discourses , as unsuited to the work of this day ; i shall briefly give in , unto you , how this is a sinfull thing , yet sinners given up unto it , without the least extenuation of their guilt , or colour for charge on the justice and goodnesse of god . . then to give up men unto a thing in it selfe sinfull , is no more , but so to dispose and order things , that sinners may exercise and draw out their sinfull principles , in such a way . this that the lord doth , the scripture is full of examples , and hath testimonies innumerable : that herein the holy one of israel , it no wayes co-partner with the guilt of the sonnes of men , will appeare by observing the difference of these severall agents in these four things . . the principle , by which they worke . . the rule , by which they proceed . . the meanes , which they use . . the end at which they aime . . the principle of operation in god is his owne soveraigne will , and good pleasure . hee doth what ever hee pleaseth , psal. . . he saith his purpose shall stand , and hee will doe all his pleasvre , isa. . . he hath mercy on whom be will have mercy , and whom hee will he hardneth , rom. . . giving no account of his matters , job . . . this our saviour rendereth as the onely principle and reason of his hidden operations : o father so it seemed good in thy sight , matth. . . his soveraignty in doing what he will with his owne , as the potter with his clay , is the rise of his operations : so that what ever he doth , who can say unto him , what doest thou , job . . shall the thing formed say to him that formed it , why hast thou made mee thus ? rom. . . and hence two things will follow . . that what he doth , is just , and righteous , for so must all acts of supreame and absolute dominion be . . that he can be author of nothing , but what hath existence and being in it selfe , for he workes as the fountaine of beings . this sin hath not . so that though every action , whether good or bad , receives its specification from the working of providence , and to that , is their existence in their severall kinds , to be ascribed , yet an evill action , in the evilnesse of it , depends not upon divine concourse and influence , for good and evill make not sundry kinds of actions , but only a distinction of a subject in respect of its adjuncts and accidents . but now the principle of operation in man , is nature vitiated and corrupted : i say nature , not that he worketh naturally , being a free agent , but that these faculties , will and understanding , which are the principles of operation are in nature corrupted , and from thence can nothing flow but evill : an evill tree bringeth forth evill fruit : men doe not gather figs from thistles : a bitter fountaine sends not forth sweet waters : who can bring a cleane thing out of an uncleane ? if the fountaine be poisoned , can the streames be wholesome ? what can you expect of light and truth from a minde possest with vanity and darknesse ? what from a will averted from the chiefest good , and fixt upon present appearances ? what from an heart , the figment of whose imagination is onely evill ? . consider the difference in the rule of operation : every thing that workes hath a rule worke by , this is called a law . in that thing which to man is sinfull , god worketh as it is a thing onely , man as it is a sinfull thing : and how so ? why every ones sin is his aberration from his rule of operation or working . {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , is aberrare a scopo . to sin , is , not to collime aright at the end proposed ; {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} is a most exact definition of it : irregularity is its forme , if it may be said to have a forme : a privations forme , is deformity . looke then in any action , wherein an agent exorbitates from its rule , that is sin : now what is gods rule in operation ? his owne infinite wise will alone ; he takes neither motive , rise , nor occasion for any internall acts , from any thing without himselfe ; hee doth what ever hee pleaseth , psal. . . he worketh all things according to the counsell of his owne will , ephes. . . that is his owne law of operation , and the rule of righteousnesse unto others : working then agreeably to his owne will , which he alwayes must doe , he is free from the obliquity of any action . what now is the rule of the sonnes of men ? why the revealed will of god ; revealed things belong to us that we may doe them , deut. . . gods revealed will is the rule of our walking ; our working ; what ever suits not , answers not this , is evill . sinne is the transgression of the law , john . . here then comes in the deformity , the obliquity , the at axy of any thing , god workes and man worketh ; those agents , have severall rules . god workes according to his rule , hence the action is good , as an action : man deviates from his rule , hence it is sinfull in respect of its qualifications and adjuncts . man writes faire letters , upon a wet paper , and they run all into one blot , not the skill of the scribe , but the defect in the paper is the cause of the deformity : he that makes a lame horse goe , is the cause of his going , but the defect in his joynts , is the cause of his going lame : the sunne exhales a steame from the dunghill , the sunne is the cause of the exhalation , but the dunghill of the unwholesome savour . the first cause is the proper cause of a things being , but the second of its being evill . . consider the severall operations and actings of god and man : for instance in a rebellious peoples fighting against their helpers under him . now the acts of god herein may be referred to six heads . . a continuance of the creatures being and life ; vpholding him by the word of his power , heb. . . when he might take him off in a moment : enduring them with much long suffering , rom. . . when he might cut him off as he did she opposers of elijah , with fire from heaven , kings . . . a continuance of power of operation to them , when he could make their hands to wither like jeroboams , when they goe about to strike , kings . . or their hearts , to dye within them like nabals , when they intend to be churlish , sam. . . but he raiseth them up , or makes them to stand , that they may oppose , rom. . . . laying before them a suitable object for the drawing forth their corruption unto opposition , giving them such helpers as shall in many things crosse their lusts , exasperate them , thereunto ; as elijab a man of fiery zeale , for a lukewarme ahab . . withholding from them that effectuall grace , by which alone that sin might be avoided ; a not actually keeping them from that sin by the might of his spirit and grace ; that alone is effectuall grace , which is actuall ; he suffers them to walke in their owne wayes : and this the lord may doe , first , in respect of them , judicially , they deserve to be forsaken , ahab is left to fill up the measure of his iniquities , add iniquity to iniquity , psal. . . secondly , in respect of himselfe , by way of soveraignety , doing what he will with his owne , hardening whom hee will , rom. . . . he positively sends upon their understandings that , which the scripture sets out under the termes of blindnesse , darkenesse , folly , delusion , slumber , a spirit of giddinesse , and the like ; the places are too many to rehearse . what secret actings in , and upon the minds of men , what disturbing of their advises , what mingling of corrupt affections with false carnall reasonings , what givings up to the power of darknesse , in satan the prince thereof , this judiciall act doth containe , i cannot insist upon : let it suffice , god will not helpe them , to discern , yea he will cause that they shall not discerne but hide from their eyes the things that concerne their peace , and so give them up to contend with their onely helpers . . suitably , upon the will and affections he hath severall acts ; obfirming the one , in corruption , and giving up the other to vilenesse , rom. . , . untill the heart become throughly hardened , and the conscience seared : not forcing the one , but leaving it to follow the judgement of practicall reason , which being a blind , yea a blinded guide , whither can it lead a blind follower , but into the ditch ? not defiling the other with infused sensuality , but provoking them to act according to inbred , native corruption , and by suffering frequent vile actings to confirme them in wayes of vilenesse . take an instance of the whole ; god gives helpers and deliverers to a sinfull people , because of their provocations , some or all of them shall not taste of the deliverance , by them to be procured ; wherefore though he sustaines their lives in being , whereby they might have opportunity to know his minde , and their owne peace , yet he gives them a power to contend with their helpers , causing their helpers to act such things , as under consideration of circumstances , shall exceedingly provoke theses sinners : being so exasperated and provoked , the lord who is free in all his dispensations , refuseth to make out to them that healing grace , whereby they might be kept from a sinfull opposition : yea being justly provoked , and resolved that they shall not taste of the plenty to come , he makes them foolish and giddy in their reasonings and counsels , blinds them in their understandings , that they shall not be able to discerne plaine and evident things , tending to their owne good , but in all their wayes , shall erre like a drunken man in his vomit ; whence that they may not be recovered , because he will destroy them , he gives in hardnesse and obstinacy upon their hearts and spirits , leaving them to suitable affections , to contend for their owne ruine . now what are the wayes and methods of sinfull mans working in such an opposition , would be too long for me to declare ; what prejudices are erected , what lusts pursued , what corrupt interests acted , and followed ; how selfe is honoured , what false pretences coyned , how god is sleighted , if i should goe about to lay open , i must looke into the hell of these times , then which nothing can be more loathsome and abhominable : let it suffice , that sinfull selfe , sinfull lusts , sinfull prejudices , sinfull blindnesse , sinfull carnall feares , sinfull corrupt interests , sinfull fleshly reasonings , sinfull passions , and vile affections doe all concur in such a work , are all woven up together in such a web . . see the distance of their aimes , god's aime is onely the manifestation of his owne glory ( then which nothing but himselfe is so infinitely good , nothing so righteous that it should be ) and this by the way of goodnesse and severity , rom. . . goodnesse in faithfulnesse and mercy , preserving his , who are opposed , whereby his glory is exceedingly advanced : severity towards the opposers , that by a sinfull cursed opposition , they may fill up the measure of their iniquities , and receive this at the hand of the lord , that they lye down in sorrow , wherin also he is glorious . god forbid , that i should speak this , of all , that for any time , or under any temptation may be carryed to an opposition in any kind , or degree to the instruments of gods glory amongst them : many for a season may doe it , and yet belong to god , who shall be recovered in due time : it is onely of men given up , forsaken , opposing all the appearances of god with his saints and people in all his wayes , of whom i speak . now what are the ends of this generation of fighters against this brazen wall , and how distant from those of the lords ? they consult to cast him downe from his excellency , whom god will exalt , psal. . . they thinke not as the lord , neither doth their heart meane so , but it is in their heart to destroy and to cut off , isa. . . to satisfie their owne corrupt lusts , ambition , avarice ▪ revenge , superstition , contempt of gods people , because his , hatred of the yoak of the lord , fleshly interests ; even for these and such like ends as these , is their undertaking . thus though there be a concurrence of god and man in the same thing , yet considering the distance of their principles , rules , actings , and ends ; it is apparent that man doth sinfully , what the lord doth judicially ; which being an answer to the former objection , i returne to give in some vses to the point . let men , constant , sincere , upright in the wayes of god , especially in difficult times know , what they are to expect from many , yea the most of the generation , whose good they intend , and among whom they live ; opposition and fighting is like to be their lot , and that not onely it will be so because of mens lusts , corruptions , prejudices , but also it shall be so from gods righteous judgements against a stubborne people : they harden their hearts that it may be so to compasse their ends , and god heardens their hearts that it shall be so to bring about his aimes : they will doe it to execute their revenge upon others , they shall doe it to execute gods vengeance upon themselves . this may be for consolation , that in their contending there is nothing but the wrath of man against them , whom they oppose ( which god will restraine , or cause it to turne to his praise ) but there is the wrath of god against themselves , which who can beare ? this then let all expect , who engage their hearts to god , and follow the lambe whither ever he goeth . men walking in the syncerity of their hearts are very apt to conceive that all sheaves should bow to theirs , that all men should cry grace , grace , to their proceedings : why should any oppose ? quid meruere ? alas ! the more upright they are , the fitter for the lord by them to breake a gainsaying people : let men keep close to those wayes of god whereto protection is annexed , and let not their hearts faile them because of the people of the land ; the storme of their fury will be like the plague of haile in egipt , it smote onely the cattel that were in the field ; those , who upon the word of moses drove them into the houses , preserved them alive . if men wander in the field of their owne wayes , of selfe seeking , oppression , ambition , and the like , doubtlesse the storme will carry them away ; but for those , who keep house , who keep close to the lord , though it may have much noyse terrour and dread with it , it shall not come nigh them . and if the lord for causes best known , known onely to his infinite wisedome , should take off any josiahs in the opposition , he will certainly effect two things by it . . to give them rest and peace . . further his cause and truth by drawing out the prayers and appeales of the residue , and this living they valued above their lives . all you then that are the lords workmen be alwayes prepared for a storme , wonder not , that men see not the wayes of the lord , nor the judgements of our god , many are blinded . admire not , that they will so endlessely engage themselves into fruitlesse oppositions , they are hardened . be not amazed , that evidence of truth and righteousnesse will not affect them , they are corrupted . but this doe , come and enter into the chambers of god , and you shall be safe untill this whole indignation be overpast . i speak of all them , and onely them who follow the lord in all his ways with upright hearts , and single minds , if the lord will have you to be a rock and a brazen wall for men to dash themselves against , and to breake in pieces , though the service be grievous to flesh and blood , yet it is his , whose you are , be prepared , the wind blowes , a storme may come . let men set upon opposition make a diligent enquiry , whether there be no hand in the businesse , but their owne ? whether their counsels be not leavened with the wrath of god ? and their thoughts mixed with a spirit of giddinesse , and themselves carried on to their owne destruction ? let me see the opposer of the present wayes of god , who upon his oppostion is made more humble , more selfe denying , more empty of selfe-wisedome , more fervent in supplycations and waiting upon god , then formerly : and i will certainely blot him out of the roll of men judicially hardened . but if therewith , men become also proud , selfish , carnally wise , revengefull , furious upon earthly interests , full , impatient , doubtlesse god is departed , and an evill spirit from the lord prevaileth on them . o that men would looke about them before it be too late , see the lord disturbing them , before the waves returne upon them ; know that they may pull downe some anticks that make a great shew of supporting the church , and yet indeed are pargetted posts supported by it ; the foundation is on a rock , that shall not be prevailed against . see the infinite wisedome and soveraignty of almighty god , that is able to bring light out of darknesse , and to compasse his owne righteous judgements by the sinfull advisings and undertakings of men . indeed the lords soveraignty and dominion over the creature doth not in any thing more exalt it self , then in working in all the reasonings , debates , consultations of men , to bring about his owne counsels through their free workings . that men should use , improve their wisedome , freedome , choyce , yea lusts , not once thinking of god , yet all that while doe his worke more then their owne : this is the lords doing and it is marvellous in our eyes . of the last part of my text i shall not speak at all , neither indeed did i intend . of toleration : and the duty of the magistrate , about religion : the times are busie , and we must be breife . prefaces , for the most part are at all times needlesse , in these , troublesome . mine shall only be , that {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , without either preface or passion , i will fall to the businesse in hand . the thing about which i am to deale , is commonly called toleration in religion , or toleration of severall religions . the way wherin i shall proceed , is not by contest , thereby to give occasion : for the reciprocation of a saw of debate with any , but by the laying downe of such positive observations , as being either not apprehended , or not rightly improved , by the most , yet lye at the bottome of the whole difference betweene men about this businesse , and tend in themselves to give light unto a righteous and equitable determination of the maine thing contended about : and lastly herein , for method , i shall first , consider the grounds upon which that non toleration whereunto i cannot consent , hath been and is still indeavoured to be supported , which i shall be necessitated to remove , and then in order assert the positive truth , as to the substance of the businesse under contest : all in these ensuing observations . . although the expressions of toleration , and non toleration wherewith the thing in controversie is vested , doe seeme to cast the affirmation upon them who plead for a forbearance in things of religion towards dissenting persons , yet the truth is , they are purely upon the negation , and the affirmative lyes fully on the other part : and so the weight of proving ( which ofttimes is heavy ) lyes on their shoulders . though non-toleration sound like a negation , yet punishment , ( which termes in this matter are {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} ) is a deep affirmation . and therefore it sufficeth not men to say , that they have consulted the minde of god , and cannot finde that hee ever spake to any of his saints or people to establish a toleration of errour : and yet this is the first argument to oppose it , produced in the late testimony of the reverend and learned assembly of the church of scotland . affirmative precepts must be produced , for a non toleration , that is the punishing of erring persons . for actings , of such high concernment , men doe generally desire a better warrant then this , there is nothing in the word against them . cleare light is needfull for men , who walke in paths , which lead directly to houses of blood . god hath not spoken of non-toleratin , is a certaine rule of forbearance . but god hath not spoken of toleration , is no rule of acting in opposition thereunto . ( what he hath spoken one way or other , shall be afterwards considered . ) positive actings must have positive precepts , and rules for them , as conscience is its owne guide . if then you will have persons deviating in their apprehensions from the truth of the gospell , civilly punished , you must bring better warrant then this , that god hath not spoken against it , or i shall not walke in your wayes , but refraine my foot from your path . . that undoubtedly there are very many things under the command of the lord , so becomming our duty , and within his promise , so made our priviledge , which yet if not performed , or not enjoyed , are not of humane cognizance , as faith it selfe . yet because the knowledge of the truth is in that rank of things , this also is urged as of weight , by the same learned persons , to the businesse in hand . . errours , though never so impious , are yet distinguished from peace-disturbing enormities . if opinions in their owne nature tend to the disturbance of the publike peace , either that publick tranquilitie is not of god , or god alloweth a penall restraint of those opinions . it is a mistake , to affirme , that those who plead for toleration , doe allow of punishment for offences against the second table , not against the first . the case is the same both in respect of the one , and the other . what offences against the second table are punishable ? doubtlesse not all : but onely such as by a disorderly eruption pervert the course of publicke quiet and society . yea none but such , fall under humane cognizance . the warrant of exercising vindictive power amongst men , is from the reference of offences to their common tranquility . delicta puniri , publice interest . where punishment is the debt , bonum totius , is the creditour to exact it . and this is allowed , as to the offences against the first table , if any of them in their owne nature ( not some mens apprehensions ) are disturbances of publick peace , they also are punishable . only let not this be measured by disputable consequences , no more then the other are . let the evidence be in the things themselves , and actum est , let who will plead for them . hence , popish religion , warming in its very bowels , a fatall engine against all magistracy amongst us , cannot upon our concessions plead for forbearance : it being a knowne and received maxime , that the gospell of christ , clashes against no righteous ordinance of man . and this be spoken to the third argument of the forenamed reverend persons from the analogie of delinquencies against the first and second table . . the plea for the punishment of erring persons , from the penall constitution under the old testament against idolaters ( which in the next place is urged ) seemes not very firme and convincing . the vast distance that is between idolatry , and any errors whatsoever , as meerly such , however propagated or maintained with obstinacy , much impaireth the strength of this argumentation . idolatry is the yeelding unto a creature the service and worship due to the creator : reinold . de . idol . li . . cap. . s. . idololatria est circa omne idolum famulatus & servitus , tertul. de pol. the attendance and service of any idoll . idololatroe dicuntur qui simulachri eam servitutem exhibent quae debetur deo : august lib. . de trinit. cap. . they are idolaters who give that service to idols which is due unto god . to render glory to the creature as to god , is idolatry , say the papists : bell. de eccles , triump . lib. . cap. . greg. de valen. de idol . lib. . cap. . suitable to the description of it given by the apostle , rom. . . plainely , that whereunto the sanction under debate was added , as the bond of the law against it ( which was the bottom of the commendable proceedings of diverse kings of judah against such ) was a voluntary relinquishment of jehovah revealed unto them , to give the honour due unto him to dunghill idols . now though error and ignorance ofttimes lye as the bottome of this abhomination , yet error properly so called , and which under the name of heresie is opposed , is sufficiently differenced therefrom . that common definition of heresie , that it is an error , or errors in or about the fundamentals of religion , maintained with stubbornnesse and pertinacy after conviction ( for the maine received by most protestant divines ) will be no way suited unto that , which was before given of idolatry and is at commonly received ; being indeed much more cleare , as shall be afterward declared . that this latter is proper and suitable to those scripturall descriptions , which we have of heresie , i dare not assert : but being received by them who urge the punishment thereof , it may be a sufficient ground of affirming , that those things whose definitions are so extreamely different , are also very distant and discrepant in themselves , and therefore constitutions for the disposall of things concerning the one , cannot eo nomine , conclude the other . neither is the inference any stronger , then , that a man may be hanged for coveting , because he may be so for murdering . the penall constitutions of the judaicall policy ( for so they were which yet i urge not ) concerning idolaters , must be stretched beyond their limits , if you intend to enwrap hereticks within their verge . if hereticks be also idolaters , as the papists . ( the poor indians who worship a piece of red cloath , the egiptians who adored the deities , which grew in their owne gardens , being not more besotted with this abhomination then they who prostrate their soules unto , and lavish their devotion upon a peice of bread , a little before they prepare it for the draught , so casting the stumbling block of their iniquities before the faces of poore heathens and jewes , causing averroes to breath out his soule , in this expression of that scandall , quoniam christiani manducant deum quem adorant , sit anima mea cum philosophis . ) i say then , the case seemes to me , to have received so considerable an alteration that the plea of forbearance is extreamely weakened ; as to my present apprehension : however for the present , i remove such from this debate . . the like to this also , may be said concerning blasphemy , the law whereof is likewise commonly urged in this cause . the establishment for the punishment of a blasphemer is in lev. . . given it was upon the occasion of the blaspheming and cursing of the son of an egyptian , upon his striving & contending with an israelite . being ( probably ) in his own apprehension wronged by his adversary , he fell to reviling his god . the word here used to expresse his sinne , is {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} signifying also to peirce , and is twice so rendered , isa. . . hab. . . desperate expressions peircing the honour and glory of the most high , willingly and wilfully , were doubtlesse his death deserving crime . it is the same word that balack used to baalam , when he would have perswaded him to a deliberate cursing and powring out of the imprecations on the people of god , numb. . , . a resolved peircing of the name and glory of god , with cursed reproaches , is the crime here sentenced to death . the schoolemen tell us , that to compleate blasphemy of the perverse affection in the heart in detestation of the goodnesse of god , joyned with the reproaches of his name , is required . thom. ae . g. . a. . ad um . which how remote it is from error of any sort ( i meane within the compasse of them whereof we speak ) being a pure misapprehension of the understanding , imbraced ( though falsely ) for the honor of god , i suppose is easily conceived : and so consequently that the argument for the death of a person erring , because he came off no easier , of old who blasphemed , is a baculo ad angulum . if any shall say that blasphemy is of a larger extent , and more generall acceptation in the scripture , i shall not deny it . but yet that , that kind of blasphemy which was punishable with violent death , was comprehensive of any inferiour crime , i suppose cannot be proved . however , blasphemy in the scripture is never taken in any place that i can remember , for a mans maintaining his owne error , but for his reviling and speaking evill of the truth which he receiveth not , and so paul before his conversion was a blasphemer . now if men to whom forbearance is indulged in by-paths of their owne , shall make it their worke to cast dirt on the better wayes of truth , it is to me very questionable whether they do not offend against that prime dictate of nature , for the preservation of humane society , quod tibi fieri non vis , alteri ne feceris ; and for such , i will be no advocate . neither can indeed the law of blaspbemy , be impartially urged by us in any case of heresie whatsoever . for , . the paenall sanctions of the lawes of god are not in england esteemed of morall equity , and perpetually indispensable ; for if so , why doe adulterers unmolested , behold the violent death of stealers . . the blasphemer by that law was not allowed his clergy . dye he must without mercy , no roome being left for the intervention of repentance , as to the removall of his temporall punishment . when once the witnesses garments were rent , he was anathema : but in case of any heresie , repentance , yea recantation is a sure antidote ( at least for once , so it is among the papists ) against all corporall sufferings . . neither doth that place in zachary , chap. . v. . concerning the running through of the false prophet , more prove or approve of the punishment of death to be inflicted for misapprehensions in the matters of religion ( and if it proves not that , it proveth nothing , for slaying is the thing expressed , and certainely if proofes be taken from the letter , the letter must be obeyed , or we force the word to serve our hypothesis ) then that place of joh. . he that entereth not by the doore is a thiefe and a robber ; which bellarmine strongly urgeth to this very purpose , because theives and robbers , are so dealt withall , righteously : bell. lib. de laicis . cap. . if such deductions may be allowed it will be easie to prove , quidlibet , ex quolibet , at any time . if the letter be urged , and the sense of the letter as it lyes ( a indeed the figurative sense of such places is the proper literall sense of them ) let that sense alone be kept to : let parents then passe sentence , condemne , and execute their children , when they turne seducers . and that in any kind whatsoever , into what seduction soever they shall be ingaged ; be it most pernicious , or in things of lesse concernment ; the letter allows of none of our distinctions ; be they convinced or not convinced , obstinate or not obstinate , all is one , so it must be , thrust through , and slain by their parents , must they fall to the ground ; onely observe , his father and his mother that begat him , must be made magistrates , prophets with uncleane spirits be turned into hereticks , onely thrusting through , that must be as it is in the letter ; yea though plainely the party , of whom it is said , thou shalt not live , v. . is found alive , v. . surely such an orleans glosse is scarce sufficient to secure a conscience in slaying hereticks . but when men please , this whole place shall directly point at the discipline of the churches and their spirituall censures under the gospel , curing deceivers and bringing them home to confession and acknowledgement of their folly : see the late annot. of the bible . . from the asserting of the authority , and description of the duty of the magistrate , rom. . the argument is very easie , that is produced , for the suppressing , by externall force , of erronious persons : the paralogisme is so soule and notorious , in this arguing , hee is to suppresse evill deeds , heresie is an evill deed , therefore that also , that it needs no confutation . that he is to punish all evill deeds was never yet affirmed . vnbeliefe is a worke of the flesh ; so is coveting : one the root sinne , against the first , the other against the second table : yet in themselves , both exempted from the magistrates cognizance and jurisdiction . the evill doers doubtlesse for whose terrour and punishment he is appointed , are such as by their deeds , disturbe that humane society , the defence and protection wherof , is to him committed . that among the number of these , are errours , the depravations of mens understandings , hath not yet been proved . . the case of the seducer , from deut. . is urged with more shew of reason then any of the others , to the businesse in hand ; but yet the extreame discrepancies between the proofe , and the thing intended to be proved , make any argumentation from this place , as to the matter in hand , very intricate , obscure , and difficult . for , . the person here spoken of , pretends an immediate revelation from heaven : he pretends dreames , and gives signes and wonders , v. . and so exempts his spirit from any regular tryall : hereticks for the most part , offer to be tryed by the rule that is in medio , acknowledged of all ; a few distempered enthusiasts excepted . . his businesse is , to entice from the worship of jehovah , not in respect of the manner but the object , v. . all hereticks pretend the feare of that great name . . the accepting and owning idoll dunghill gods in his roome , is the thing perswaded to , v. , ( and those were onely stocks and stones ) and this in opposition to jehovah , who had revealed himselfe by moses . hereticks , worship him , owne him , and abhorre all thoughts of turning away from following after him , according to their erronious apprehensions . manichees , marcionites , valentinians , and such like names of infidels , i reckon not among hereticks , neither will their brainsick paganish follies , be possibly comprehended under that definition of heresie which is now generally received . mahumetans are farre more rightly tearmed hereticks , then they . . this seducer was to dye without mercy : and aynsworth observes from the rabbines , that this offender alone , had traps laid to catch him ; and were he but once overheard to whisper his seduction , though never so secretly , there was no expiation of his transgression , without his owne blood : but now this place is urged for all kind of restraint and punishment whatsoever . ( now where god requires blood , is it allowed to man , to commute at an inferiour rate ? ) so i confesse it is urged . but yet what lyes at the bottome , in the chambers of their bellyes who plead for the power of the magistrate to punish erring persons , from those and such like places as these , is too apparent . blood is there : swiftly , or slowly , they walke to the chambers of death . . obstinacy after conviction , turbulency , &c. which are now laid downe , as the maine weights that turne the scale on the side of severity , are here not once mentioned , nor by any thing in the least intimated . if he have done it , yea but once , openly , or secretly , whether he have been convinced of the sinfulnesse of it , or no , be he obstinate or otherwise , it is not once inquired , dye he must , as if he had committed murder , or the like indispensable death-procuring crime . if the punishment then of erring persons be urged from this place , all consideration of their conviction , obstinacy , pertinacy , must be laid aside : the text allows them no more plea in this businesse , then our law doth in the case of wilfull murder . . repentance and recantation will in the judgement of all , reprieve an erring person from any sentence of any punishment corporall whatsoever ; and many reasons may be given , why they should so doe . here is no such allowance . repent or not repent , recant or not recant , he hath no sacrifice of expiation provided for him , dye he must . . this law containes the sanction of the third commandement as the whole , was a rule of the jewish politie in the land of canaan : this amongst us is generally conceived not binding , as such . . the formall reason of this law by some insisted on , because be sought to turne a man from jehovah : . is of force onely in this case of the object whereunto seduction tends ; viz. strange gods , and no other . . turning from jehovah respects not any manner of backslyding in respect of the way of worship , but a falling away from him as the object of worship . now there being these and many other discrepancies hindering the cases proposed from running parallell , i professe for my part , i cannot see how any such evident deductions can possibly be drawne from hence , as to be made a bottome of practise and acting in things of so high concernment . what may be allowed from the equity of those and the like constitutions , and deduced by analogie and proportion to the businesse in hand , i shall afterwards declare . the summe of what is usually drawne out from holy writ , against such a forbearance , as i suppose may be asserted , and for the punishing hereticks with capitall punishments being briefly discussed , i proceed in the next place to such other generall observations , as may serve to the further clearing of the businesse in hand , and they are these that follow . . the forbearance of , or opposition unto errors , may be considered , with respect either unto civill or spiritual judicature . for the latter , it is either personall or ecclesiasticall , properly so called . personall forbearance of errors in a spirituall sense , is a moral toleration or approbation of them . so also is ecclesiasticall . the warrant for proceedance against them , on that hand is plaine and evident . certainely this way , no error is to be forborne . all persons who have any interest and share in truth , are obliged in their severall wayes and stations , to an opposition unto every error . an opposition to be carryed on by gospel mediums , and spirituall weapons . let them according as they are called or opportuned , disprove them from the word , contending earnestly for the faith once delivered unto the saints : erring persons are usually ( bono animo , sayes salvian ) very zealous to propogate their false conceptions ; and shall the children of truth be backward in her defence . precepts unto this as a duty , commendations of it , incouragements unto it , are very frequent in the gospel . alike is this duty incumbent on all churches walking to the rule . the spirituall sword of discipline , may be lawfully sheathed in the blood of heresies . no spirituall remedy , can be too sharpe for a spirituall disease . when the cure is suited to the malady , there is no danger of the application . and this is not denyed by any . he that submits himselfe to any church society , does it ea lege , of being obedient to the authority of christ ; in that church in all its censures . volenti non fit injuria . error is offensive , and must be proceeded against . examples and precepts of this , abound in the scriptures . the blood of many erring persons ( i doubt not ) will one day have a quo warranto granted them , against their ( as to the particulars in debate ) orthodox slayers , who did it to promote the service of god . let them not fear an after reckoning , who use the discipline of christ , according to his appointment . this being considered , the occasion of a most frequent paralogisme is removed . if errours must be tolerated , say some , then men may doe what they please , without controll ? no meanes it seems must be used to reclaime them ? but ! is gospel conviction no meanes ? hath the sword of discipline no edge ? is there no meanes of instruction in the new testament established , but a prison and a halter ? are the hammer of the word , and the sword of the spirit , which in days of old , broke the stubbornnest mountaines , and overcame the proudest nations , now quite uselesse ? god forbid . were the churches of christ , established according to his appointment , and the professors of the truth , so knit up in the unity of the spirit and bond of peace , as they ought to be , and were in the primitive times ; i am perswaded those despised instruments would quickly make the proudest hereticke to tremble . when the churches walked in sweet communion , giving each other continuall account of their affaires , and warning each other of all , or any such persons , as either in practice , or doctrine , walked not with a right foot ( as we have examples in clem. epist. ad corinth . the churches of vienna and lyons , to those of asia : euseb. of ignatius to severall persons and churches , of iraeneus to victor . euseb. dyonisius to stephen , ibid. and the like ) hereticks found such cold entertainment , as made them ashamed if not weary of their chosen wanderings ; but this is not my present businesse . . there is an opposition , or forbearance , in reference to a civill judicature , and proceedence of things , which respecteth errors , in a reall sense , as to the inflicting , or not inflicting of punishment , on religious delinquents . and this is the sole thing under debate , viz. whether persons enjoying civill authority over others , being intrusted therewithall , according to the constitutions of the place and nation where the lot of them both , by providence is fallen , are invested with power from above , and commanded in the word of god , to coerce , restraine , punish , confine , imprison , banish , hange , or burne , such of those persons under their jurisdiction , as shall not embrace , professe , beleeve , and practice , that truth and way of worship , which is revealed unto them of god , or how far , into what degrees , by what means , in any of these wayes , may they proceed . the generall propositions and considerations of the penall lawes of god , which were before laid downe , have , as i suppose , left this businesse to a naked debate from the word of truth , without any such prejudices on either part , as many take from a misapprehension of the mind of god in them ; and therefore by the readers patience , i shall venture upon the whole anew , as if no such arguments had ever been proposed , for the affirmative of the question in hand , not declining the utmost weight , that is in any of them , according to equity and due proportion . and here first i shall give in a few things . . to the question it selfe . . to the manner of handling it . . to the question it selfe , for herein , i suppose , . that the persons enjoying authority , doe also enjoy the truth , which is to the advantage of the affirmative . . that their power in civill things is jnst and unquestionable , which also looses favourably on that side . . that non-toleration makes out it selfe in positive infliction of punishment , which is so , or is nothing . casting men out of protection , exposing them to vulgar violence , is confestly unworthy of men representing the authority of god , and contrary to the whole end of their trust . . to the manner of handling this question among persons at variance ; and here , i cannot but observe . . that if i have taken my aime aright , there is no one thing under debate amongst christians , that is agitated with more confidence and mutuall animosity of the parties litigant : each charging other with dreadfull inferences , streames of blood , and dishonour to god , flowing out from their severall perswasions . so that ofttimes , in stead of a faire dispute , you meet on this subject with a patheticall outcry , as though all religion were utterly contaminated and trampled underfoot , if both these contradictory assertions , be not imbraced . now seeing that in it selfe , it is a thing wherein the gospel is exceedingly sparing , if not altogether silent , certainely there must be a further interest , then of judgement alone , or else that , very much prejudicated with corrupt affections , or men could not possibly be carryed out with so much violence , upon supposed selfe-created consequences , wherwith in this cause they urge one another . . that generally , thus much of private interest appeares in the severall contesters that non-toleration is the opinion of the many , and these enjoyning the countenance of authority : toleration of the oppressed , who alwayes goe under the name of the faction or factions , the unavoidable livery of the smaller number professing a way of worship by themselves , be it right or wrong . i doe not desire to lay forth the usuall deportment , of men , seeking the suppressing of others differing from them , towards those in authority . it is but too clearely made out , by dayly experience : if they close with them , they are custodes utriusque tabulae , the churches nursing fathers , &c. what they please . but if they draw back for want of light or truth to serve them ▪ logges and storks find not worse entertainement from froggs , then they from some of them . such things as these , may , ( nay ought to ) be especially heeded by every one , that knowes what influence corrupt affections have upon the judgements of men , and would willingly take the paines to wipe his eyes for the discerning of the truth . these things premised , i assert , that non-toleration in the latitude , which is for persons in authority , enjoying the truth ( or supposing they doe enjoy it ) to punish in an arbitrary way , ( according to what they shall conceive to be condigne . ) men , who will not forsake their owne convictions , about any head , or heads , of christian religion whatsoever ; to joyne with what they hold out , either for beliefe or worship ( after the using of such wayes of perswasion as they shall thinke fit ) is no way warranted in the gospel , nor can any sound proofe for such a course be taken from the old testament . the testimonies out of the law which i can apprehend to have any colour or appearance of strength in them , with the examples approved of god , that seem to look this way : i considered at our entrance into this discourse . i speake of punishing in an arbitrary way , for all instances produced to the purpose in hand , that speak of any punishment , mention nothing under death it selfe ; which yet ( at least in the first place ) is not aymed at by those that use them in our dayes as i suppose . now some divines of no small name , maintain , that god hath not left the imposition of punishment in any measure , to the wils of men . some arguments for the proofe of the former assertion as layd downe , i shall in due place make use of ; for the present , i desire to commend to the serious pondering of all christians in generall , especially of those in authority , these ensuing considerations . . that it is no priviledge of truth , to furnish it's assertors , with this perswasion , that the dissenters from it , ought forceably to be opposed , restrained , punished : no false religion ever yet in the world , did enthrone it selfe in the minds of men , enjoyning a civill soveraignty over the persons of others , but it there withall commanded them , under paine of neglect and contempt of it selfe , to crush any underling worship , that would perke up in inferiour consciences . the old heathens carryed their gods into the warre ( as did the philistims , chron. . . and the israelites the arke with heathenish superstition , sam. . . ) to whom they ascribed the successe they obtained , and in requitall of their kindnesse , they forced the dunghill deities of the conquered nations , to attend the tryumph of their victorious idols ; and unlesse they adopted them into the number of their owne gods , all further worship to them was forbidden . hence were these inventions among the old romans , by spells and enchantments to entise away a deity from any city they besieged , ( they being as expert at the getting of a devill , as tobias's raphael , or the present romanists at his fumigation ) by which means they shrived into the honor of having unconquered idols ( as varro in augustine de civit . dei . ) and deserved worthily , that change of their cities epithete ; from {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , to {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , which it justly inheriteth to this very day . rabsheke's provocation to the example of the gods of the nations , kings . , . and the roman senats consultation concerning the admitting of christ to a place among their idols , that he might have been freely worshipped ( their consent being prevented , by his almighty providence , who will not be enrolled among the vilest works of his most corrupted creatures ) do both declare this thing . now not to speak of caine , who seems to me , to have layd the foundation of that cruelty , which was afterward inserted into the churches orthodoxies , by the name of haereticidium , we find the four famous empires of the world to have drunke in this perswasion to the utmost , of suppressing all by force and violence , that consented not to them , in their way of worship . nebuchadnezzar the crowne of the golden head , sets up a furnace with an image , and a negative answer to that quaery , doe you not serve my gods , nor worship my image ? served to cast the servants of the living god , into the middest of the fire , dan. . daniel's casting into the lyons den , chap. . shews that the persian silver brest and armes , did not want iron hands , to crush or breake the opposers of , or dissenters from their religious edicts . and though we find not much , of the short-lived founder of the grecian dominion , yet what was the practice of the branches of that empire , especially in the syrian and egiptian sprouts , the three books of the machabees , josephus and others , do abundantly manifest . for the romans , though their judgement and practice , ( which fully and wholly , are given over from the dragon to the beast and false prophet ) be written in the blood of thousands of christians , and so not to be questioned , yet that it may appear , that we are not the onely men in this generation , that this wisedome of punishing dissenters was not born with us , i shall briefly give in , what grounds they proceeded on , and the motives they had to proceed as they did . first , then , they enacted it as a law , that no religious worship should be admitted or practised , without the consent , decree , and establishment of the senate . mention is made of a formall law to this purpose in tertullian , apol. cap. . though now we find it not . the foundation of it was doubtlesse in that of the twelve tables : separatim nemo habessit deos , neue novos , sed ne aduenas nisi publice ascitos privatim colunto . let none have gods to himselfe , neither let any privately worship new or strange deities , unlesse they be publiquely owned and enrolled . and that it was their practise and in the counsells of the wisest amongst them , appeares in that advice given by maecenas to augustus in dio cassius : {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} . worship ( saith he ) the divine power thy selfe , according to the constitutions of thy countrey , alwayes and at all times , and compell others so to honeur it ; not onely for the gods sake , whom yet whoso contemneth , hee will never doe any honourable thing , but because , these ( not so worshipping ) introducing new deities , doe perswade many to transgresse ( or to change affaires ) whence are conjurations , seditions , private societies ; things no way conducing to monarchies . hence doubtlesse was that opposition , which paul met withall in deverse of the roman territories ; thus at athens , ( though as i suppose they enjoyed there , their owne lawes and customes , very suitable as it should seem to those of the romans ) preaching jesus , he was accused to be a setter forth of strange gods , acts . for although as strabo observeth of the athenians , that publiquely by the authority of the magistrates , {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , they received many things of forreigne worships , yet that none might attempt any such things of themselves , is notorious from the case of socrates , who as laertius witnesseth , was condemned , as {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} . one who thought not those to be gods , whom the city thought so to be , but brought in certaine new deities . hence i say was pauls opposition , and his haling to mars hill : without doubt also , this was the bottome of that stirre and trouble he met withall about philippi . it is true , private interest lay in the bottome with the chiefe opposers , but this legall constitution was that which was plausibly pretended . acts . . they teach customes , which are not lawfull for us to receive , neither to observe being romans . {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , it is not lawfull for us romans to receive the religion they hold out , because statutes are made amongst us against all religious worship not allowed by publique authority . let calvin's short annotation on that place be seen . gallio's refusing to judge between jewes ( as he thought ) in a jewish controversie , is no impeachment of this truth : had it been about any roman establishment , he would quickly have interposed . now this law amongst them was doubtlesse , fundi christiani calamitas . this then in the first place was enacted , that no worship should be admitted , no religion exercised , but what received establishment and approbation from them , who supposed themselves , to be intrusted with authority over men in such things . and this power of the dragon was given over to the beast and false prophet . the anti-christian power , succeeding into the room of the paganish , the pope and counsels of the emperours and senate , it was quickly confirmed that none should be suffered to live in peace , who received not his marke and name , revel. . , . wherunto for my part , i cannot but referre , very many of those following imperiall constitutions , which were made at first against the opposers of the churches orthodoxisme , but were turned against the witnesse of jesus in the close . . this being done , they held out the reasons of this establishment . i shall touch only one , or two , of them , which are still common to them , who walke in the same paths with them . now the first was , that toleration of sundry ways of worship , and severall religions tends to the disturbance of the common-wealth , and that civill society , which men under the same government doe , and ought to enjoy . so cicero tels us , lib. . de legibus : suos deos , aut novos , aut alienigenas coli , confusionem habet , &c it brings in confusion of religion , and civill society . the same is clearly held out , in that counsell of maecenas to augustus before mentioned . they ( saith he ) who introduce new deities , draw many into innovations ; whence are conspiracies , seditions , conventicles , no way profitable for the common wealth . their other maine reason was , that hereby the gods , whom they owned and worshipped , were dishonoured and provoked to plague them . that this was continually in their mouths and clamours , all the acts at the slaying of the martyrs , the rescripts of emperours , the apologies of the christians , as tertullian , justine martyr , arnobius , minutius felix , doe abundantly testifie . all trouble was still ascribed to their impiety , upon the first breaking out of any judgment , as though the cause of it had been the toleration of christians , presently the vulgar cry was , christianos ad leones . now that those causes and reasons , have been traduced to all those , who have since acted the same things , especially to the emperours successor at rome , needs not to be proved : with the power of the dragon , the wisedome also is derived ; see that great champion cardinall bellarmine , fighting with these very weapons : lib. de laicis . cap. . and indeed , however illustrated , improved , adorned , supported , flourished , & sweetned they are the sum of all that to this day hath been said in the same case . . having made a law , and supported it with such reasons as these , in proceeding to the execution of the penalty of that law , as to particular persons ( which penalty being as now , arbitrary was inflicted , unto banishment ; imprisonment , mine-digging , torturing in sundry kinds , mayming , death , according to the pleasure of the judges ) they always charged upon those persons , not onely the denying and opposing their owne deities , religion , and worship , but also , that , that which they embraced , was foolish , absurd , detestable , pernitious , sinfull , wicked , ruinous to common●wealths , cities , society , families , honesty , order , and the like . if a man should goe about to delineat christian religion , by the lines and features drawne thereof , in the invectives and accusations of their adversaries , he might justly suppose , that indeed , that was their god , which was set up at rome with this inscription , deus christianorum ononychites . being an image with asses eares , in a gowne , clawes or talons upon one foot , with a booke in his hand . charged they were , that they worshipped an asses head , which impious folly , first fastened on the jews by tacitus . histor. lib. . cap. . ( in these words , effigiem animalis quo monstrante , errorem s●●imque depulerant penetrali sacravere , having before set out a faigned direction received by a company of asses ) which he had borrowed from appion a rayling egiptian of alexandria ( joseph . ad . app. lib. . ) was so ingrafted in their minds , that no defensative could be allowed . the sun , the crosse , sacerdotis generalia , were either really supposed , or impiously imposed on them , as the objects of their worship . the blood and flesh of infants , at thiestaean banquets , was said to be their food and provision : promiscuous lust , with incest , th●●● chiefest refreshment . such as these it concerned them , to have them thought to be , being resolved to use them , as if they were so indeed : hence i am not sometimes without some suspition , that many of the impure abhominations , follies , villanies , which are ascribed unto the primative hereticks , yea the very gnosticks themselves ( upon whom the filth that lyes , is beyond all possible beliefe , epiphan. tom. . lib. . har. . ) might be ●ained , and imposed , as to a great part thereof . for though not the very same , yet things as foolish and opposite to the light of nature , were at the same time , charged on the most orthodox . but you will say , they who charged these things upon the catholicks , were pagans , enemies of god , and christ ; but these who so charged hereticks were christians themselves : and so , say i also , and therefore for reverence of the name , ( though perhaps i could ) i say no more . but yet this i say , that story which you have in minutius felix , or arnobius th . book apologeticall , of the meeting of christians , the drawing away of the light by a dogge tyed to the candlestick , so to make way for adulteries and incests : i have heard more then once , told with no small confidence , of brownists and puritans . hath not this very same course been taken in latter ages ? consult the writings of waldensis , and the rest of his companions , about wickleffe and his followers , see the occasion of his falling off from rome , in our owne chronicles , in fabian of old , yea and daniel of late to gratifie a popish court ; of eckius , hosius , staphylus , bolsecte , bellarmine , and the rest who have undertaken to pourtray out unto us , luther and calvin with their followers ; and you will quickly see , that their great designe was to put ( as they did upon the head of john huss at the councell of constance , when he was lead to the stake ) the ugly vizard , of some devillish appearance , that under that forme , they might fit them for fire and fagot . and herein also , is the politie of the dragon , derived to the false prophet , and a colour tempered , for persecutors to imbrue their hands in the blood of martyrs . this was the old roman way , and i thought it not amisse to cautionate those , enjoying truth and authority , that if it be possible , they may not walke in their steps and method : the course accounted so soveraigne , for the extirpation of errour , was as you see , first invented , for the extirpation of truth . secondly , i desire it may be observed , that the generall issue and tendance of unlimited arbitrary persecution or punishing for conscience sake , because in all ages {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , and the worst of men have sate at the upper end of the world , for the most part , more false worshippers , having hitherto enjoyed authority over others , then followers of the lambe , hath been pernicious , fatall , and dreadfull to the profession and professors of the gospel , little , or not at all , serviceable to the truth . i have heard it averred , by a reverend and learned personage , that more blood of hereticks hath been shed by wholesome severity , in the maintenance of the truth and opposition unto errors , then hath been shed of the witnesses of jesus , by the sword of persecution , in the hands of hereticks and false worshippers . an assertion , i conceive , under favour , so exceedingly distant from the reality of the thing it selfe , that i dare take upon me , against any man breathing , that in sundry christian provinces , almost in every one of the west , more lives have been sacrificed to the one idoll haereticidium , of those that bear witnesse to the truth , in the beleife , for which they suffered , then all the hereticks properly so called , that ever were slaine in all the provinces of the world , by men professing the gospell : and i shall give that worthy divine , or any other of his perswasion , his option , among all the chiefest provinces of europe , to tye me up unto which they please . he that shall consider that above sixty thousand persons , were in six yeares or little more , cut off in a judiciall way , by duke d' alua in the nether-lands , in pursuite of the sentence of the inquisition , will conclude , that there is causa facilis in my hand . the ancient contest , betweene the homoousians and the arrians , the first controversie the churches were agitated withall , after they enjoyed a christian magistrate ( and may justly be supposed to be carryed on to the advantage of error , beyond all that went before it , because of the civill magistrates interessing themselves in the quarrell ) was not carryed out to violence and blood , before the severall perswasions , lighted on severall dominions , and state interests : as between the goths , vandals , and the rest of their companions on one side , who were arrians , and the romans on the other . in all whose bickerings notwithstanding , the honour of severity , did still attend the arrians , especially in affricke , where they persecuted the catholicks , with horrible outrage and fury . five thousand at one time barbarously exposed to all manner of cruell villany . some eruptions of passion had been before among emperours themselves , but still with this difference , that they who arrianized , carryed the bell for zeale against dissenters . witnesse valens , who gave place in persecution , to none of his pagan predecessors ; killing , burning , slaying , making havock of all orthodox professors : yea perhaps , that which he did , at least was done by the countenance of his authority , at alexandria upon the placing in , of lucius an arrian in the roome of athanasius , thrusting peter besides the chaire , who was rightly placed according to the custome of those times , perhaps i say , the tumults , rapes , murders , then , and there acted , did outgoe what before had been done by the pagans , see theodorit , eccles. hist. lib. . cap. . it were tedious to pursue the lying , slandering , invectives , banishments , deaths , tumults , murders , which attend this counsell all along , after once they began to invoke the help of the emperours one against another : yet in this space some magistrates , weary with persecuting ways , did not only abstaine practically from force and violence , as most of the orthodox emperours did , but also enacted laws , for the freedome of such as dissented from them . jovianus a pious man , grants all peace , that will be peacable ; offended onely with them , who would offer violence to others . socrates eccles. hist. lib. . cap. . gratianus makes a law , whereby he granted liberty to all sects . but manichees , photinians , and eunomians . zozo . eccles. hist. lib. . cap. . many more the like examples might be produced . the next difference about the worship of god ( to the arrian and its branches ) that was controverted in letters of blood , was about images , and their worship ; in which , though some furious princes , in opposition to that growing idolatry , which by popes , bishops , priests , and especially monkes , was in those dayes , violently urged , did mingle some of their blood with their sacrifices , yet not to the tithe almost , of what the iconolatrae getting uppermost , returned vpon them , and their adherents . this if occasion were , might be easily demonstrated from paulus diaconus and others . after this , from about the year . about which time the iconolatrae , having ensnared the west by politie , the posterity of charles the great , who had stoutly opposed the worship of images , complying with the popes , the fathers of that worship for their owne ends , and wearied the east by cruelty , that contest growing towards an end , the whole power of punishing for religion , became subservient to the dictates of the pope , the kings of the earth giving their power to the beast , ( unto which point things had been working all along ) from thence i say , untill the death of servctus in geneva , the pursuit of gentilis blandeata , and some other mad men in helvetia , for the space well nigh of years , the chiefest season of the reigne of sathan and antichrist , all punishing for religion , was managed by the authority of rome , and against the poore witnesses of jesus , prophecying in sackcloth , in the severall regions of the west . and what streames of blood were poured out , what millions of martyrs slaine in that space , is knowne to all . hence bellarmine boasteth that the albigenses were extinguished by the sword . de laic . cap. . it is true there were lawes enacted of old by theodosius , valentinian , martian , as c. de haereticis , l. manichaeis , l. arriani . l. vnicuique ; which last provideth for the death of seducers , but yet truely , though they were made by catholicks , and in the favour of catholicks , yet considering to what end they were used , i can look upon them no otherwise , but as very bottome stones of the tower of babel . this , then in its latitude proving so pernicious to the profession of the gospell , having for so long driven the woman into the wildernesse , and truth into corners , being the maine engine whereby the tower of babel was built , and that , which at this day they cry grace unto , as the foundation stone of the whole antichristian fabrick ( see becanus de fide baereticis servanda , bell. de laicis , &c. ) we had need be cautious , what use we make ( as one tearmes it well ) of the broome of antichrist , to sweep the church of christ . whither that wee are in the truth , and they blinded with error , of whom wee have spoken , be a sufficient plea , we shall see anon . in the meane time , we may doe well to remember , what lewes the twelth of france said , yea swore concerning the inhabitants of mirindoll , whom by the instigation of his prelates he had ordered to be slaine , when newes was brought him , what was their conversation and way of life , let them be hereticks if you please ( saith he ) but assuredly they are better then me , and my catholicks . take heed least the punished , be better then the punishers . let me add to this observation onely this , that the attempt to suppresse any opinions whatsoever by force , hath been for the most part fruitlesse ; for either some few particular persons , are proceeded against , or else greater multitudes : if some particulars only , the ashes of one , hath alwayes proved the seed of many opinionatiists : examples are innumerable , take one , which is boasted of , as a patterne of severity taken from antiquity . about the yeare . priscillianus , a manichee , and a gnosticke , by the procurement of ithacius and idacius , two bishops , was put to death by maximus , an usurping emperour , who ruled for a season , having slaine gratianus ; ( as that kind of men , would always close with any authority , that might serve their owne ends ) now what was the issue thereof ; martinus a catholick bishop renounces their communion who did it : the historian , that reports it , giving this censure of the whole , sic pessimo exemplo , sublati sunt homines luce indignissimi , though the men ( priscillian and his companions ) were most unworthy to live , yet their sentence to death , was most unjust . but no matter for this , was not the heresie suppressed thereby ? see what the same historian , who wrote not long after , and was able to testifie the event , sayes of it ( it is severus sulpitius , lib. . eccles. hist. ) non solum non repressa est haeresis ( sayes he ) sed confirmata , & latius propagata est , &c. the heresie was so farre from being suppressed hereby , that it was confirmed and propagated : his followers who before honoured him as a saint , now adore him as a martyr : the like in all ages hath been the issue , of the like indeavours . but now , if this course be undertaken against multitudes , what is or hath been the usuall end of such undertakings ? take some examples of late dayes : charles the fifth , the most mighty emperour of germany , undertakes by violence to extirpate the lutherans and calvinists out of the empire . after a tedious warre , the death of many thousands , the wasting of the nation , in the close of all , himselfe is driven out of germany ; and the businesse left much where it begun : sleid. com. philip of spaine will needs force the inquisition upon the netherlands ? what is the issue ? after the expence of an ocean of blood , and more coyne then would have purchased the countrey twice over , his posterity is totally deprived of all sovereignty over those parts . patrick hamilton , and george wishard are put to death in scotland , by the procurement of a cardinall ; the cardinall is instantly murthered by some desperate young men , and a war raised there about religion , which was never well quieted , untill having hunted their queene out of her native kingdome , she had her head chopt off in england : history of reformation in scotland . the warres , seditions , tumults , murders , massacres , rapes , burnings , &c. that followed the same attempt in france , cannot be thought of , without horror and detestation . neither knew those things any end , untill the present forbearance , was granted . instances might be multiplyed , but these things are knowne to all . if any shall say , all these evils followed , the attempting to suppresse truth not errour , i shall answer him another time , being loath to doe it , unlesse compelled : onely for the present i shall say , that errour hath as much right , to a forceable defence , as truth . . to stirre us up yet further , to a serious consideration of the grounds and reasons which are laid downe , for the inflicting of punishment upon any , for exorbitancies in things of religion ( upon what hath been said ) the perpetuall coincidence of the causes by them held forth , who pretend to plead for just severity , with their pretences who have acted unjust persecution , would be well heeded . the position is laid downe in generall on both sides , that erring persons are so , and so , to be dealt withall . that such is the power and duty of the magistrate in such cases . the definition of heresie is agreed on for the maine ; onely the papists place the churches determination , where others thrust in the hereticks conviction ( a thing much more obscure to by-standers and judges also . ) the appellations wherewith truth persecuted , and error pursued , are cloathed , still the same . the consequents urged on all sides , of dishonour to god , trouble to the state , and the like not at all discrepant . the arguments for the one , and other , for the most part the same . looke what reasons one sect gives for the punishing of another , the names being changed are retorted . he blasphemeth to the hereticke , who chargeth blasphemy upon him . wee use no other arguments , cite no other texts , presse no other consequencies for the punishing of other hereticks , then the papists the wisest hereticks breathing , doe for the punishment of us . no colour , no pretence , but hath been equally used in all hands : none can say , this is mine . to luthers objection , that the church of christ never burned an hereticke , for husse , and hierome were none ; bellarmine answers , they were hereticks to them catholicks , which did suffice : de laic . cap. . and indeed this vicissitude of things is very pernitious . all christians almost are hereticks to some enjoying authority : ( as salvian said the case was , between the homoousians and arrians in his time ) and most of those enjoying authority , are perswaded it is their duty , to suppresse them whom they account hereticks ; and answerably have more or lesse acted , according to this perswasion , untill by blood , wars , and horrid devastations of nations , some of them have been wearied : from the first ceraysado against the albigenses , through the warre of the hussites under zifea and the procopij , those dreadfull massacres , before recounted , what a stage of blood , hath europe been made upon this account ? i desire that to this point the declaration of the netherlands , at the beginning of their troubles ( whom bellarmine affirmes to have petitioned for liberty of coscience , as he was writing de haereticidio , the thing being long before granted at spira , at the convention of the states of the empire , in the yeare . ) may be seriously considered . . for the necessity of courses of extremity , against erronious persons , for the upholding the faith once delivered to the saints , and the keeping the churches in peace , it doth not appeare to me to be so urgent as is pretended ; for three hundred years , the church had no assistance from any magistrate against hereticks : and yet in all that space , there was not one long-lived , or farre-spreading heresie in comparison of those that followed . as the disease is spirituall , so was the remedy which in those dayes was applyed ; and the lord jesus christ , made it effectuall . the christians also of those dayes , disclaimed all thoughts of such proceedings . the expressions of the most antient , as policarpus , ignatius , iraenaeus , concerning hereticks are sharpe and cutting : their avoyding of them being admonished , precise and severe ; their confutations of them , laborious and diligent ; their church censures , and ejections , peircing and sharpe : communion amongst the churches , close , exact , and carefully preserved ; so that a stubborne heretick was thrust out of christian society . but for corporall punishment to be inflicted on them , in their writings , not a syllable . untill augustine was changed from his first resolution and perswasion , by the madnesse of donatisticall circumcellions , this doctrine had poore footing in antiquity . and whether his reasons as to this point be convincing , let any impartiall man , read his epistle , and determine . what some say , the christians would have been of another minde , had they injoyed christian magistrates , is so suited to our present frame and temper , but so unworthy of them , that i should wrong them by a defensative . what was their sense of them in a spirituall way is cleare . john they say would not abide in a bath , where cerinthus the heretick , infected wtih judaisme and paganisme was ; saying , let us depart lest the building fall on us , where cerinthus is : iraen . lib. . cap. . euseb. eccles. hist. lib. . cap. . marcion meeting polycarpus , and asking him whether he knew him or acknowledged him , his answer was , yea , to be the first borne of the devill , euseb. lib. . cap. . ignatius his epistles are full of the like expressions . iraeneus sayes , he would have no words with them , lib. . cap. . tertullians books testifie for him at large , with what keenesse of spirit he pursued the hereticks of his dayes ( though before the end of them ; he had the unhappinesse to be almost one himself . ) cyprian cryes out , nulla cum talibus convivia , nulla colloquia , nulla commercia misceantur : epist. . ad cornel. neither eate , nor talke , nor deale with them . antonius the hermit leaves testimony when he was dying , that he never had peaceable conference with them all his dayes , vita anton ▪ inter oper. athan. surely , had these men perceived the minde of god for their bodily punishment , they would not have failed to signifie their minds therein ; but truely their expressions hold out rather the quite contrary . {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} : sayes ignatius , epist. ad philad. count them enemies and separate from them , but for beating or persecuting them , that is proper to the heathen who know not god , nor our saviour , doe not you so . tertullian in very many places , layes downe generall maximes tending to more liberty then is now pleaded for ; one or two places may be jointed at . videte ne & hoc ad irreligiositatis elogium concurrat , adimere libertatem religionis , & interdicere optionem divinitatis , ut non liceat mihi colere quem velim , sed cogar colere quem nolim . nemose ab invito coli vellet , ne homo quidem : apol. cap . and againe to scopula the governour of carthage to disswade him from the persecution he intended . tamen humani juris & naturalis potestatis est unicuique quod putaverit colere : nec alii obest aut prodest alterius religio : sed nec religionis est , cogere religionem , quae sponte , suscipi debeat , non vi ; cum & hostiae ab animo libenii expostulantus ; ita & si nos compuleritis ad sacrificandum , nihil praestabiis diis vestris , ab invitis enim sacrificia non disiderabunt . and i desire to know , whether that which he maketh to be the plea of christians , may not also be used by all erring persons . totum quod in nos potestis , nostrum est arbitrium . certe si velim , christianus sum , tunc ergo me damnabis si damnari velim . cum vero quod in me potes , nisi velim , non potes , jam meae voluntatis est quod potes , non tuae potestatis . apol. cap. ult. hence was that quaere of lactantius : quis imponet mihi necessitatem aut credendi quod nolim , aut quod velim non credendi : and long after these gregory of rome , lib. . ep. . tells us , nova & inaudita est ista praedicatio , quae verberibus exigit fidem : to bea●e in faith with stripes , was then , a new kinde of preaching . these and the like , were their expressions . it is true , in the three first centuries , many fond , foolish , corrupt opinions , were broached by sundry brain sick men ; but they laid little hold of the chrches , kept themselves in the breasts of some few disorderly wanderers , and did very little promote the mysterie of iniquity : but afterwards , when the roman emperours , and the great men of the earth , under , and with them , began to interpose in the things of religion , and were mutually woed , instigated , and provoked by the parties at variance ( as indeed it is a shame to consider upon all meetings , assemblies , disputes councels , what running , what flattering , what insinuation at court were used on all hands ) what roote did diverse heresies take ( how farre were they propagated ? witnesse arrianisme , which had almost invaded the whole world . furthermore , by the wayes which were invented oft from the rule , for the extirpation of errors , when by the instigation of prelates , the emperours were , ( to their owne ruin ) perswaded to them , the man of sinne walked to his throne . those very lawes , edicts , and declarations , which were obtained against erring persons , did the bishops of rome invert and use against all the witnesses of jesus . the devill durst not be so bold , as to imploy that his grand agent in his apprentiship against the saints : but he first suffers him , to exercise his hand against hereticks , intending to make use of him afterwards to another purpose . in most of those contests , which the roman pontists had with their fellow bishops , by which they insensibly advanced their owne supremacy , it was the defence of catholicks they undertooke , as in the case of athanasius and others . neither did the christians of old , at once , steppe into the perswasion of punishing corporeally in case of religion . constantine makes a decree at first , {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , that liberty of worship is not to be denyed , and therefore the christians as others , should have liberty to keep the faith of their religion and heresie , euseb. eccles hist. lib. . cap. . and in the same edict he saith ( how truely i know not , but yet great constantine said it ) that it is most certaine , that this is conducing to the peace of the empire , that free option and choyce of religion he left to all . afterwards , when he begun a little further to ingage himselfe in the businesse of religion , being indeed wearied with the petitions of bishops and their associates , for the persecution of one another , what troubles in a few yeares did he intricate himselfe withall , perplexed he was in his spirit to see the untoward revengefulnesse of that sort of people ; insomuch that he writes expresly to them , being assembled in counsell at tyre , that they had neither care of the truth , nor love to peace , nor conscience of scandall , nor would by any meanes be prevailed on to lay downe their malice and animosities ; socrat. hist. lib. . cap. . at length an arrian priest curryes favour with his sister constantia : shee gets him into the esteeme of her brother ; after some insinuations of his , new edicts , new synods , new recallings , new banishments of other persons , follow one upon the neck of another . ruffin . eccles. hist. lib. . cap. . and when this knack was once found out , of promoting a sect by imperiall favour , it is admirable to consider how those good princes , constantine and his sonnes , were abused , misled , inraged , ingaged into mutuall dissensions , by the lyes , flatteries , equivocations of such as called themselves bishops , ruff. lib. . cap. , , &c. as also how soone with the many , the whole businesse of religion was hereupon turned into a matter , of externall pompe and dominion . but it is besides my purpose , to rase into that hell of confusion , which by this meanes , brake in upon the churches in succeeding ages . onely , for the following imperiall edicts and constitutions in the behalfe of the faith catholicke , and for the punishing of erring persons , i desire to observe , . that the emperours were stirred up to them , by turbulent priests , and aspiring prelates ; let the popes letters to them witnesse this , leo epist. , &c. . that they were still bottomed , upon such , and such , counsells , that were not to be opposed or spoken against , when all of them were spent for the most part , about things quite besides and beyond the scripture ( as feastings , and fastings , and bishops jurisdictions ) and some of them , were the very ulcers , and impostumations of christian religion , as those of nice and ephesus , both the second ; and in generall all of them the sea , upon which the whore exalted her seat and throne ; and these things did those good men , either deceived by the craft of hereticks , or wearied by the importunity of the orthodox . and yet notwithstanding all this ( as i shall afterwards declare ) i cannot close with that counsell which themistius a philosopher gave to valens the emperour , and am most abhorrent from the reason of his counsell , viz. that he should let all sects alone , because it was for the glory of god , to bee honoured with diversities of opinions , and wayes of worship : yet though this reason be false and impious , yet the advise it selfe was well conducing at that time , to the peace of the churches , something qualifying the spirit of that hereticall emperour , who before had cruelly raged , against all orthodox professors of the deity of christ , socrat. lib. . cap. . . lastly , add unto all that hath been said ( vice coronidis ) for the use of such as injoying authority , may have misapprehensions of some truths of christ , a sad consideration concerning the end and issue , which the lord in his righteous judgement hath in all ages given to persecutors and persecution . nero ( of whom sayes tertullian , tali dedicatore gaudet sanguis christianus ) who was the first that imployed the sword against our religion , being condemned by the senate to be punished more majorum , slew himselfe with this exprobration of his owne sordid villany , turpiter vixi , turpius morior : sueton. in nero : domitian the inheritor of his rage and folly , murdered in his owne house , by his servants , idem in domit. trajan by a resolution of his joynts , nummednesse of body , and a choaking water , perished miserably , dion cassius de tra. this is he whose order not to seeke out christians to punishment , but yet to punish them appearing , you have in his epistle to plinie a provinciall governour under him , plin. epist. . which though commended by eusebius , eccles. hist. lib. . cap. . yet is canvassed by tertullian , as a foolish , impious , wicked constitution , apol. cap. . hadrian perishing , with a flux and casting of blood , payd some part of the price of the innocent blood which hee had shed , aelius spart . in had. severus poysoned himselfe , to put an end to his tormenting paines , jul. capitol . maximinus , with his sonne yet a child , was torne in pieces of the souldiers , all crying out , that not a whelpe was to be left of so cursed a stock . decius having reigned scarce two yeares , was slaine with his children , euseb. lib. . cap. . valerian being taken by sapores king of persia , was carryed about in a cage , and being yeares old , was at length flayed alive , euseb. lib. . cap. . another valerian , of the same stampe , with his brother and kindred , was murdered at millan . diocletian being smitten with madnesse , had his pallace consumed with fire from heaven , and perished miserably . the city of alexandria in the time of gallienus , was for its persecution , so wasted with variety of destroying plagues and judgements , that the whole number of its inhabitants , answered not the gray-headed old men that were in it before , dyonis . apud euseb. lib. . cap. . what was the end of julian , is knowne to all . now truely of many of these , we might well say ( as one of old did ) quales imperatores ? as trajan , hadrian , severus , julian , what excellent emperours had they been , had they not been persecutors . and all this sayes tertullian is come to passe , that men might learne , {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} . he that desires to see more of this , let him consult , tertull. apol. & ad scap. euseb. eccles. hist. lib. . cap. . august . de civit . dei , lib. . cap. . eutrop. lib. . it would be tedious to descend to examples of latter ages , our owne and the neighbour nations , do so much , too much abound with them ; let this that hath been spoken suffice , to cautionate mortall men , how they meddle with the vessels of the sanctuary . but now , may some say , what will be the issue of this discourse ; doe you then leave every one at liberty in the things of god ? hath the magistrate nothing to doe , in , or about religion ? is he to depose the care thereof ? shall men exasperated in their spirits by different perswasions , be suffered to devoure one another as they please ? &c. i have onely shewed the weaknesse of those grounds , which some men make the bottome of their testimonies , against the toleration of any thing but what themselves conceive to be truth ; as also taken away the chiefe of those arguments , upon which , such a proceeding against erring persons is bottomed , as tends to blood and death : what positively the civill magistrate , may , nay ought to doe , in the whole businesse of religion , comes in the next place to be considered , being the third and last part of our discourse : now my thoughts unto this , i shall hold out under these three heads . . what , is the magistrates duty , as to the truth , and persons professing it . . what , in reference to the opposers and revilers of it . , what , in respect of dissenters from it . and i shall begin with the first , which to me , is , much of chiefest importance . his power , or rather his duty herein , i shall hold out in these ensuing propositions . . as all men in generall , so magistrates , even as such , are bound to know the minde and will of god , in the things which concerne his honour and worship . they are bound i say , to know it . this obligation lyes upon all creatures , capable of knowing the creatour , answerably to that light , which of him they have , and the meanes of revelation which they doe enjoy . he of whom we speake , is supposed to have that most soveraigne and supreme of all outward teachings , the word of god , with such other helpes , as are thereby revealed , and therein appointed . so as he is bound to know the will of god , in every thing him concerning ; wherein he failes , and comes short of the truth , it is his sinne ; the defect being not in the manner of the revelation , but in the corruption of his darkened mind . now that he is to make this inquiry , in reference to his calling , is evident from that of david , sam. . . he that ruleth over men must be just , ruling in the feare of the lord : this feare is onely taught by the word . without a right knowledge of god and his mind , there can be no true feare of him . that command also , for the jewish magistrate , to study it day and night , and to have the booke of the law continually before him , because it was the rule of that civill politie , whereof he was under god the head and preserver , by analogy confirmeth this truth , deut. . . if he desire this wisedome sincerely , and the lord intend him , as a light of the morning , as a rising sun , a morning without clouds , to his people , doubtlesse he will reveale himselfe to him , and teach him his mind , as he did david and solomon , and other holy men of old. and as to this , i shall onely with due reverence , cautionate the sonnes of men , that are exalted in government over their brethren , that they take heed of a lifted up spirit , the greatest closer of the heart against the truth of god . he hath promised , to teach the humble and the lowly in mind ; the proud he beholdeth a farre off . is not this the great reason , that the rulers beleeve not on him , and the nobles lay not their necks to the yoake of the lord , even because their hearts are lifted up within them , and so lye in an unteachable frame before the lord . . the truth being revealed to them , and their owne hearts made acquainted therewith , after their personall engagements , to the practice of the power of godlinesse , according to the revelation of god in the face of jesus christ ; three things are incumbent on him in reference thereunto . . that according to the measure of its revelation unto him , he declare , or take care that it be declared unto others , even all committed to his governing charge . the general equity , that is in the obligation of , strengthening others , when we are confirmed , desiring them to be like our selves , in all participations of grace from god , the nature of true zeale for the glory and name of the lord , are a sufficient warrant for this , yea demand the performance of this duty . so jehoshaphat being instructed in the wayes of god , sent princes and priests to teach it in all the cities and townes of judah , chron. . , , . as also did hezekiah , chron. . , , . let this then be our first position . . it belongs to the duty of the supreme magistrate , the governour , or shepheard of the people in any nation , being acquainted with the mind of god , to take care that the truth of the gospell be preached to all the people of that nation , according to the way appointed , either ordinary , or extraordinary . i make no doubt but god will quickly reject them from their power , who knowing their masters will , are negligent herein . . as he is to declare it , so he is to protect it from all violence , whatever . jesus christ , is the great king of nations , as well as the holy king of saints . his gospell hath a right to be preached in every nation , and to every creature under heaven . who ever forbids or hinders the free passage of it , is not onely sinfull and impious toward god , but also injurious towards men . certainly the magistrate is to protect every one , and every thing , in their own right , from the violence and injury of unruly men . in the preaching and receiving the gospel , there is a right acted , superior to all earthly priviledges whatever . in this then the magistrate is to protect it , that under him the professors thereof , may leade a quiet and peaceable life , in all godlinesse and honesty . and for this cause , they to whom the sword is committed , may with the sword lawfully defend the truth , as the undoubted right , and priviledge of those who do enjoy it , and of which they cannot be deprived without the greatest injury . jephthah layd it down as the ground of the equity of the warres he waged against the ammonites , that they would possesse what the lord their god gave them to possess ; the defence whereof , he pursued to the subversion of their ( at first ) invading enemies : judg. . . . ( it is no new thing to begin in defence , and end in offence ) . now , if the truth be given us of the lord our god , to possesse , certainly it may be contended for , by those who owe protection thereunto ; and if this were not so , we may pray , and prevail for the prosperity of those in authority ; and yet when we have done , not have a right to a quiet and peaceable life ; let this then be the second assertion . the gospel being preached , and declared as of right it ought to be , it is the duty of the magistrate , by the power wherewith he is entrusted , to protect and defend it against all , or any persons , that by force , or violence shall seek to hinder the progresse , or stop the passage of it under what pretence soever . and that a neglect of this also , will be attended with the anger of the lord , and the kindling of his wrath , shall not long be doubted of any . thirdly , the protecting , assisting , and supporting of all the professors of it , in that profession , and in wayes of truths appointment , for the practice of that which is embraced , and the furtherance of it , towards them who as yet embrace it not , is also required , and of this there are sundry parts . . that seeing christ jesus hath appointed his disciples to walk in such societies , and requireth of them such kinde of worship , as cannot be performed without their meeting together {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , in one place , that he either provide , or grant being provided , the use of such places under his protection , as may in all , or any kinde be suited , and fitted for that end and purpose . and the ground of this is : . from the right which the gospel of christ hath to be received amongst men , according to his own appointment ; whether that be the appointment of christ , or no , amongst us , is no question . ly , because the magistrate hath the sole power of all publick places , and the protection of them , is committed to him alone , by virtue of that consent into government which is among any people . this proved as above . ly , a protection in the use of those places , and all things exercised in them , answerable to that which he doth and is bound to grant unto men in their own private dwellings , and families . the reason why i am protected from all hurt or violence in my family , is because i have a right to dispose of all things in my family being mine own , and so hath not another ; it was asserted before , that christians have a right to the ordinances of christ , and truth a right to be at liberty . and therefore , if any shall invade , disturbe , or trouble them in their rights , and liberties , he is bound ex officio to give them a protection , not bearing the sword in vain . now being in my family , in my private house the assistance of those in authority is due : . in respect of them without . . in respect of them within . . for them without , if any one will against my consent , intrude himself upon my family enjoyments , to share with me , or violently come to take away that is mine , or distub me in the quiet possession of it , the magistrate takes cognizance of such disturbances , and punisheth them according to equity . suteably , if any person or persons whatsoever , shall with violence put themselves upon the enjoyments of such ordinances as those enjoying the rights of the gospel have obtained to themselves , or shall come in their celebration of them , to cause disturbance , certainly , that magistrate protects not every one in his undoubted rights , who doth not accommodate the wronged parties , with the assistance of his power to the punishment of the transgressors . . for house dwellers , servants , or any others , who may break out into such offences , and incorrigiblenesse , as the amendment thereof , may be beyond what i am intrusted to do , to any , by law of god or man , and shall not the magistrate here also interpose ? is not his assistance here abundantly required and alwayes granted ? from parity of reason is it not as due for their protection , who in the enjoyment of their publick religious rights may receive disturbance , and be under force , from some , incorrigible by any rule among themselves . for instance , suppose , a person justly excommunicated , and ejected any society of christians as to any spirituall communion , yet will with outward force and violence , put himself upon them in their closest acts of communion , doubtlesse their rights , are here to be by power preserved . . that whereas the preachers of the gospel are now to be maintained in an ordinarie way , and to expect their supportment in an usnall course of providence , and seeing that many to whom we have proved that the gospel is to be declared , by the care of the magistrate , will not , or cannot make such provisions for them as is needfull , in these last evil daies of the world , it is incumbent on those nursing fathers , to provide for them , who because of their continuall labours in the work of the lord , are dis-inabled , to make provision for themselves . where churches are setled according to the rule of the gospel , and not too much straightned by reason of want , there may be an alteration as to this proposall . that this ingagement lyes first upon the churches , was seen of old ; hence that caution or canon , of the councell of chalcedon , cap. . {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , let none be ordained at large : ne dicatur , mendicat in palaestra infoelix clericus , saies the scholiast : lest he should be driven to begge for want of maintenance . this being the summe of what as to this head , i have to assert , i shall give in the proofs of it , and then draw some further positions . . the bottome of the whole , ariseth from that right which the gospel hath to be preached to all nations and people , and that right paramount to all civill sanctions and constitutions , which every soul hath to receive it in the profession thereof . and all this flows from the donation of the father unto jesus christ , whereby he is made heir of all things . hebr. . . having the nations given him for his inheritance , the utmost parts of the earth for his possession : psal. . . being also lord of lords , and king of kings , acting nothing in taking possession of his own , but what his soveraignty bears him out in . . all this tends to the apparent good , of those committed to his charge , that they may leade their lives in godlinesse and honesty , which is the very chief end of magistracy committed unto men . this is directly intended , all other things come in by accident , and upon suppositions . . no person living can pretend to the least injury by this , none is deprived , none wronged . . the precepts given unto them , and the promises made concerning them , do abundantly confirm all that hath been asserted . psal. . , . they are commanded as kings and judges to serve the lord , in promoting the kingdom of the lord jesus christ . and it is promised , isa. . . that they shall be nursing fathers , and nursing mothers to the church of christ , even then , when she shall suck the brests of kings ( earthly things are the milk of kingly brests ) when her officers shall be peace , and her exactors righteousnesse : isa. . , . this at least , reacheth to all we have ascribed to them . all is but bowing the knee of magistracy at the name of jesus . hence are these positions . the providing or granting of places requisite for the performance of that worship which in the gospel is instituted , is the duty of the christian magistrate . protection as to peace and quietnesse , in the use of the ordinances , of the lord jesus christ , from violent disturbers , either from without , or within , is also incumbent on him . supportment and provision as to earthly things , where regularly failing , is of him required . and in the neglect of any of these , that takes place , which is threatned , isa. . . two or three consectaries added hereunto , shall close this part of the magistrates power , or rather duty about the things of religion : as , positive actings by way of supportment and assistance , maintenance , allowance of publick places , and the like , in the behalf of persons deviating from the truth , in those things wherein they deviate , is contrary to the rule of the word , and duty of them in authority . for , error hath neither right , nor promise , nor is any precept given in the behalf thereof . the defence and protection of erring persons , from violence and injury , in those things wherein they have a right , is no acting of his duty about religious things ; but a meer dealing for the preservation of humane society , by the defence of persons , not acting against the rules thereof . every particular minute difference , among the professors of the truth , cannot be proved to come under the cognizance of the magistrate , he being to attend the worship which for the main is acceptable to god in christ , neither do any testimonies extend his duty any further : hence corola : the present differences about church society , and the subject or seat of discipline , which are between those dissenters , who are known by the names of presbyterians , and independents , as they are in themselves ( not heightned by the prejudices , lusts , corruptions , and interests of men ) hinder not at all , but that the magistrate is bound to the performance of the duties before mentioned unto both parties . and the reasons of this are , because . the things wherein they are agreed , are clearly as broad , as the magistrates duty can be stretched to cover them . . neither party ( i am perswaded ) in their retyred thoughts , dare avow the main of the worship by their dissenters embraced , to be as such , rejected of the lord . . no example in the world , can be produced out of the old testament , or new , or ecclesiasticall history , of a forcible decision of such minute differences . see socrat : eccles. hist. lib. . cap. . . corol : all the plea of persons erring in doctrine or worship , is not , from what the magistrate must do , but from what he may not do . and this for the first part shall suffice . secondly , there is another part of the magistrates power , the other side of his sword to be exercised towards the opposition of that truth which he hath embraced : and this hath a twofold object . . things . . persons . things are of . sorts : . wayes of worship . . outward appearances , monuments , accommodations and declarations of those wayes . of the first , i shall speak afterwards . by the second , i mean , all the outward attendencies of any false or erronious worship , which are either helps to , or declarations of the superstition , idolatry , error , or falsenesse of it ; as temple for idolatrous service , crosses , pictures , and the like abused relicks of old unwarranted zeal . now concerning these , i affirm . . that the magistrate ought not to make provision of any publick places for the practise of any such worship as he is convinced to be an abomination unto the lord . when i say he ought not to make provision , i understand , not onely a not actuall caring that such be , but also a caring that such may not be . he should not have a negation of acting as to any thing of publick concernment . his not opposing , here is providing . for instance ; he must not allow , that is , it is his duty to oppose , the setting apart of publick places , under his protection for the service of the masse , ( as of late in sommerset house ) or for any kinde of worship in it self disallowed , because not required , and so , not accepted . this were to be bound to help forward sin , and that such sin whereof he is convinced , which is repugnant to the whole revealed will of god . a magistrate , i told you before , is not to act according to what he may do , but what he must do : now it cannot be his duty to further sin . . outward monuments , wayes of declaring and holding out false and idolatrous worship , he is to remove : as the papists images , altars , pictures , and the like , turks mosckes , prelates service book . now these are of two sorts . . such things as in their whole use and nature , serve onely for the carrying on of worship , in it self wholly false , and meerly invented . as altars , images , crosses . . such as were used for the carrying on of worship true in it self , though vilely corrupted , as praying , and preaching ; such are those places commonly called , churches . the first are to be abolished , the latter aright used . ( i speak as to publick appearances , for private disquisitions after such things , i may be otherwise minded . ) the reason of this difference , is evident to all . thus in dayes of old , constantine shut up pagans temples : euseb. de vita constant . lib. . cap. , . and demolished some of the most filthy of them : lib. . cap. . theodosius utterly cast them to the ground , though not without some blows and bloodshed . socrat : eccles. hist. lib. . ca. . the command of god for the abolishing all monuments of idolatry , deut. . , , . with the commendation of those kings of judah who accordingly performed this duty , chron. . . and . . are enough to confirm it , and to bottome this position . it is the duty of the magistrate not to allow any publick places for ( in his judgement ) false and abominable worship , as also to demolish all outward appearances and demonstrations of such superstitions , idolatrous and unacceptable service . let papists who are idolaters , and socinians who are anthropolatrae , plead for themselves . now secondly for persons , there seems something more of difficulty , yet certain clear rules may be proposed concerning them also , to hold out when they and their proceedings come under the cognizance of the civill magistrate , and are obnoxious to the sword which he beareth . and they are these . . such persons , as having embraced any false principles and perswasion in , or about things concerning god and his worship , do pursue the upholding or propagating of such principles , in a disorderly manner to the disturbance of civill society , are doubtlesse under his restraining power , to be acted and put forth in such wayes as to other persons , running out into the same , or the like compasse of disorder , upon other grounds , and from the instigation of other lusts . the pretence of disturbance and confusion upon the bearing with differences in opinion about things commanded in religion , we before rejected as a colour fitted chiefly for the waring of persecution . but actuall disturbances indeed , must have actuall restraints . for instance ; if a man being perswaded that the power of the magistrate , is in christian religion , groundlesse , unwarrantable , unlawfull , should thereupon stir up the people to the abolishing , and removall of that power , such stirrings up , and such actings upon that instigation , are , as opposite to the gospel of christ ( which opposeth no lawfull regiment among the sons of men ) so also prejudiciall to humane society , and therefore to be proceeded against by them who bear not the sword in vain . this case we know happened once in germany , and may do so again in other places . if such as these suffer , it is as murderers , or theeves , or evill doers , or busie-bodies in other mens matters ; which is a shamefull thing , no way commendable or praise worthy . pet. . . . if any persons whatsoever , under any pretence whatsoever , shall offer violence or disturbance to the professors of the true worship of god , so owned , established , and confirmed as above said , in , and for the profession of that true , so owned worship , service and declaration of the minde of god , such persons are to feare that power , which is the minister of god , and a revenger to them that do evill . let us suppose of them , what they suppose , and for their own justification and support in irregular wayes , bear out of themselves , that they enjoy the truth , others walking in paths of their own ; yet then , this practise is contrary to that prime dictate of nature , which none can pretend ignorance of , viz : do not that to another , which thou wouldest not have done unto thy self ; if men that would not think it equitable to be so dealt with , as they deal with others , supposing themselves in their conditions , do yet so deal with them , they are {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , and do pronounce sentence against themselves , out of their own mouthes . this then deserveth punishment , and breaking out to the disturbance of publick order , ought to be punished . we before proved the protection of publick places to belong to the magistrate : so that he not onely may , but if he will not be false to him by whom he is intrusted , he must put forth his authority for the safe guarding and revenging of them . yea also and this rule may passe , when some things in the way publickly established , are truly offensive . what the ancient christians thought of the zeal of audas a christian bishop , who would needs demolish a pagan temple in persia , i know not , but i am sure his discretion is not much extolled , who by that one fiery act of destroying {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , or temple of slain , occasioned a cruell persecution of . yeers continuance . theod. eccles. hist. lib. . cap. . . when any have entertained any singular opinion , in matters of great weight and importance , such as neerly concern the glory of god , and the minds of christians in reverence of his holy name , are most tenderly affected withall , so that without much horror of minde , they can scarse hear those errors , whereby those grand truths are opposed , yet those persons , who have entertained such uncouth opinions , shall not be content , so to have done , and also in all lawfull wayes ( as to civill society ) endeavoured to propagate the said opinions to others , but in the pursuit of this their designe of opposing truth , shall publickly use such expressions , or perform such acts , as are fit to powre contempt and scorn upon the truth which they do oppose , reviling it also , or god himself so represented , as he is in the truth they abominate , with odious and execrable appellations , ( as for instance , the calling the holy trinity , tricipitem cerberum ) if the ●uestion be put , whether in this case the magistrate be not obliged to vindicate the honour of god , by corporall restraints , in some degrees at least upon the persons of those men , truly for my part , i incline to the affirmative . and the reason hereof is this ; though men , through the incurable blindnesse of their minds , falling into error of judgement , and mis-interpretation of the word , may dis-beleeve the deitie of christ , and the holy spirit , yet that any pretence from the word , perswasion of conscience , or dictate of religion , should carrie them out to reviling opprobrious speeches of that , which of god ▪ is held out contrary to their apprehensions , is false and remote from reason it self . for this cause paul saies he was a blasphemer , not because being a jew , he dis-beleeved the gospel , but because so dis-beleeving it , he moreover loaded the truths thereof , with contumelious reproaches . such expressions indeed differ not from those piercing words of the holy name of god which he censured to death : levit. . . but onely in this , that there seemeth in that to be a plain opposition unto light , in this not so . the like may be said of a jew's crucifying a dogge . . there are a sort of persons termed in scripture , {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , thes. . . {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , act. . . {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , thes. . . {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , tim. . . and the like , disorderly ; vagabond , wandring , irregular persons , fixed to no calling , abiding in no place , taking no care of their families , that under a pretence of teaching the truth , without mission , without call , without warrant , uncommanded , undesired , do go up and down , from place to place , creeping into houses , &c. now that such wayes as these , and persons in these wayes , may be judicially inquired into , i no way doubt . the story is famous of sesostris king of egypt , who made a law , that all the subjects of his kingdom , should once a yeer give an account of their way and manner of living , and if any one were found to spend his time idly , he was certainly punished ; and the laws of most nations have provided that their people shall not be wanderers , and whosoever hath not a place of abode , and imployment , is by them a punishable vagabond . and in this by much experience of the wayes , walking and converse of such persons , i am exceedingly confirmed in . i did as yet never observe any other issue upon such undertakings , but scandall to religion , and trouble to men in their civill relations . . when men by the practise of any vice or sin , draw others to a pretended religion , or by pretence of religion draw men to any vice or known sin , let them be twice punished , for their reall vice , and pretended religion . the truth is , i have been taught exceedingly to dis-beleeve all the strange imputations of wickednesse and uncleannesse , that are imposed upon many , to be either the end or the medium of the practise of that communion in religion which they do professe and imbrace : i remember that when i was a boy , all those stories were told me of brownists and puritans , which afterward , i found it to have been long before , the forgeries of pagans , and imposed on the primitive christians . i dare boldly say i have heard stories of them an hundred times , holding out that very thing , and those deeds of darknesse , which minutius felix holds out in the tongue of an infidel concerning the christians of those dayes ; but yet because sundrie venerable persons to whom antiquity hath given sanctuary from being arraigned in the point of false testimony , have left it upon record of sundry hereticks in their dayes , as the ( gnosticks & others ) that they were conjoyned into societies tessera pollutionis , and some assert that the like iniquities are not wholly buried , i made the supposition , and hope that if they depose themselves from common sence and reason , the magistrate will never exalt them to the priviledge and exemption of religion . in these , and such like eases as these , when men shall break forth into disturbance of common order and enormities against the light of nature , beyond all positive command of any pretended religion whatsoever , that the magistrate ought to set hedges of thornes in their wayes , sharpned according to their severall delinquencies ; i suppose no man not abhord of common sense , can once hesitate or doubt . and i am the more inclin'd to assert a restraint to all such as these , because it may be established to the height , without the least prejudice unto the truth , though persons erring should injoy the place of authority . that which now remaineth in this head , to be considered , is concerning persons maintaining and upholding any great and pernicious errors , but in such wayes , as are not by any of the former disorders to be brought under the cognizance of the civill magistrate , but good , honest , allowable , and peaceable in themselves , not at all to be questioned , but in reference to the things that are carried on , — in and by those wayes ; as communication by discourse , and private preaching , and the like . now concerning these , it is generally affirmed , that persons maintaining any error in or against any fundamentall article of faith , or religion , and that with obstinacy or pertinacie , after conviction , ought to be proceeded against , by the authority of the civill magistrate , whether unto death or banishment , imprisonment or confiscation of goods . now unto this , supposing , what i have written heretofore , concerning the incompetency of all , and the non-constitution of any judge in this case , with the answers — given at the beginning of this treatise , to the most of the places , produced usually for the affirmative , reserving the consideration of pressing conformity to the next head , to be handled : i shall briefly give in my thoughts : and , . that i cannot but observe , that in the question it self , there are sundry things , gratis assumed : as , . that it is known and confessed , what articles in religion are fundamentall ; and this also to the magistrate : when no one thing among christians is more questionable ; most accounting them so , ( be they what they will ) wherein they differ from others . so that one way or other , all dissenters shall be hooked in , directly or indirectly to clash upon fundamentals . in this , papists are secure , who make the churches propositions sufficient to make an article fundamentall . . that the persons holding the error are convinced , when perhaps they have been onely confuted : between which two there is a wide difference ; he that holds the truth may be confuted , but a man cannot be convinced but by the truth . that a man should be said to be convinced of a truth , and yet that truth not shine in upon his understanding , to the expelling of the contrary error , to me is strange . to be convinced , is to be over-powred by the evidence of that , which before a man knew not ; i my self , once knew a scholer invited to a dispute with another man , about something in controversie in religion ; in his own , and in the judgement of all the by-standers the opposing person was utterly confuted : and yet the scholer within a few months , taught of god , and clearly convinced , that it was an error which he had maintained , and the truth which he opposed . and then , and not till then , did he cease to wonder , that the other person was not convinced by his strong arguments , as before he had thought . may not a protestant be really worsted in a dispute by a papist ? hath it not so ere now fallen out ? if not , the jesuites are egregious lyars . to say a man is convinced , when either for want of skill , and ability , or the like , he cannot maintain his opinion , to , and against , all men , is meer conceit . the truth is , i am so far from this morose severitie of looking upon all erring persons as convinced , that have been confuted , that i rather in charity incline to beleeve , that no erring person whilest he continues in his error , is convinced . it will not easily enter into my dull apprehension , how a man can be convinced of an error ( that is enlightned with a contrary truth ) and yet hold that error still : i am loth to charge more corrupt and vile affections upon any , then do openly appear ; that of paul affirming that some men are self-condemned , is quite of another nature : i think a person is said to be convinced , not when there is a sufficiency in the means of conviction , but when there is such an efficacy in them , as to lay hold upon his understanding . . that they are obstinate and pertinacious is also a cheap supposall , taken up without the price of a proof . what we call obstinacy , they call constancy : and what we condemne them for , as pertinacy , they embrace as perseverance : as the conviction is imposed , not owned , so is this obstinacy , if we may be judges of other mens obstinacy , all will be plain : but if ever they get uppermost , they will be judges of ours : besides , i know not what good it will do us , or how it will advantage our cause , to suppose men obstinate and convinced before we punish them : no such qualifications being anywhere in the book of god urged in persons deserving punishment : if they have committed the crime , whereunto the penalty is annexed , be they obstinate or not , they shall be punished . but now supposing all this , that we are clear in all fundamentals that we are convinced , that they are convinced , and doubt not but that they are obstinate , if they keep themselves in the former bounds , what is to be done ? i say , besides what we spake at the entrance of this discourse , i shall as to any wayes of corporall coaction and restraint , oppose some few things . . the non-constitution of a judge in case of heresie , as a thing civilly criminall . as to spirituall censures and an ecclesiasticall judgement of errors , and false doctrines , we finde them appointed , and a lawfull judge as to the determining concerning them , divinely instituted : so that in such wayes , they may be warrantably proceeded against . revel. . . but now , for any judge that should make disquisition concerning them , or proceed against them as things criminall , to be punished with civill censures , i conceive the scripture is silent : and indeed , who should it be ? the custome of former ages was , that some persons of one sort , should determine of it as to right , viz : that such or such a thing , was heresie , and such or such a one , an heretick , ( which was the work of priests and prelates ) and persons of another sort , should de facto punish , and determine to be punished , those , so adjudged by the former : and these were as they called them the secular magistrates , officers of this world . and indeed , had not the god of this world blinded their eyes , and the god of the spirits of all flesh hardened their hearts , they would not have so given up their power , to the man of sin as to be made so sordidly instrumentall to his bloody cruelty : we read jer. . , . that the priests and prophets assemble themselves in judgement , and so pronounce sentence upon the prophet jeremy that he should dye for a false prophet , v. . jeremy makes his appeal to the secular magistrate and all the people , who taking cognizance of the cause , pronounce sentence in the behalf of the condemned person , against the priests and prophets , and deliver him whether they will or not , v. . i spare the application of the story : but that princes and magistrates should without cognizance of the thing , or cause , proceed to punishment or censure of it , upon the judgement of the priests , condemning such or such a man for an heretick , or a false prophet , blessed be the lord , we have no warrant : had this proceeding been regular , jeremy had dyed without mercy for a false prophet , as thousands since , standing before the lord in his spirit have done . this course then , that the civill magistrate should proceed to sentence of corporall punishment , upon others judging of the fault , is vile , sordid , unwarrantable , and exceedingly unworthy of any rationall man , much more such as are set over the people of the land : that the same persons must determine of the cause , and appoint the punishment is clear : now who must these be ? are they the ministers of the gospel ? of all others , they are the most likely to be the most competent judges in spirituall causes : let it then be so ; but then also , they must be the determiners and inflicters of the punishment upon default : now let them powre out upon obstinately erring persons , all the vengeance , that god hath betrusted them withall . the weapons of our warfare are not carnall , but mighty through god , &c. by this course , admonition , avoiding , rejection , excommunication , will be the utmost that can be inflicted on them : which for my part i desire may be exercised to the utmost extent of the rule . ly , shall the magistrate be made judge of the cause , as well as of the person ? is he entrusted to determine , what is error , what not ; what heresie , what not ; who is an heretick , who not ; and so what punishment is due to such , and such errors , according to the degrees , wherein they are ? why first , i desire an institution of this ordinance in the church ? where is the magistrate entrusted with such a power ? where are rules prescribed to him , in his proceedings ? ly , is not a judiciary determination concerning truth and error ( i mean truths of the gospel ) a meer chruch act ? and that church power , whereby it is effected ? must not then the magistrate quâ talis be a church officer ? will men of this minde , tolerate erastianisme ? ly , if there be a twofold judicature appointed for the same person , for the same crime , is it not because one crime may in divers respects fall under severall considerations ? and must not these considerations be preserved immixed , that the formall reason of proceeding in one court , may not be of any weight in the other ? we proved before , and it is granted of all , that the church is judge in case of heresie and error , as such , to proceed against them , as contrary to the gospel ; their opposition to the faith delivered to the saints , is the formall reason upon which that proceedeth to censure : if now this be afterwards brought under another sentence , of another judicature , must it not be under another consideration ? now what can this be , but its disturbance of civill society , which when it doth so , not in pretence , but really and actually , none denyes it to be the magistrates duty to interpose with his power . ly , if the magistrate be judge of spirituall offences , and it be left to him to determine , and execute judgement in such proportion , as he shall think meet according to the qualitie and degrees thereof ; it is a very strange and unlimited arbitrarinesse over the lives & estates of men : and surely they ought to produce very clear testimonies , that they are entrusted from the lord herewith , or they can have no great quiet in acting . ly , it seems strange to me , that the lord jesus christ should commit this architechtonicall power in his house , unto magistrates , foreseeing of what sort the greatest number of them would be , yea determining that they should be such , for the tryall and affliction of his own . view the times that are past , consult the stories of former ages , take a catalogue of the kings and rulers that have been , since first magistrates outwardly embraced christian religion in this , and other nations , where the gospel hath been planted , and ask your own consciences whether these be the men , to whom this high trust in the house of god is committed . the truth is , they no sooner left serving the dragon in the persecution of the pagans , but presently in a very few yeers , they gave up their power to the beast , to set up another state in opposition to the lord jesus christ and his gospel : in the supportment whereof , the most of them continue labouring till this very day . hae manus trojam exigent ? what may be added in this case , i refer to another opportunity . . gospel constitutions in the case of heresie or error , seems not to favour any course of violence ; i mean of civil penalties . foretold it is , that heresies must be , cor. . . but this , for the manifesting of those that are approved , not the destroying of those that are not ; i say destroying , i mean with temporall punishment , that i may adde this by the way ; for all the arguments produced for the punishment of hereticks , holding out capitall censures , and these being the tendance of all beginnings in this kinde , i mention onely the greatest , including all other arbitrary penalties , being but steps of walking to the utmost censures . admonitions , and excommunication upon rejection of admonition , are the highest constitutions ( i suppose ) against such persons : waiting with all patience upon them that oppose themselves , if at any time god will give them repentance to the acknowledgement of the truth : imprisoning , banishing , slaying is scarcely a patient waiting ; god doth not so wait upon unbeleevers . perhaps those , who call for the sword on earth are as unacquainted with their own spirits , as those that called for fire from heaven , luk. . and perhaps the parable of the tares gives in a positive rule as to this whole businesse : occasion may be given of handling it at large : for the present i shall not fear to assert , that the answers unto it , borrowed by our divines from bellarmine , will not endure the triall : we hope that spirituall quiet , and inoffensivenesse in the whole mountain of the lord , which is wrapt up in the wombe of many promises , will at length be brought forth to the joy of all the children of sion . . sundrie other arguments taken from the nature of faith , heresie , liberty of conscience , the way of illumination , means of communication of truth , nature of spirituall things , pravitious tendence of the doctrine opposed , if it should be actually embraced by all enjoying authority , and the like ; i thought at present to have added , but i am gone already beyond my purposed resting place . come we in a few words to the last thing proposed ( wherein i shall be very brief , the main of what i intended , being already set down ) the power of the magistrate to compell others , to the embracing of that religion and way of worship , which he shall establish and set up , which for the greater advantage we shall suppose to be the very same , both for the things proposed to be beleeved , and also practised , which god himself hath revealed , and requireth all men every where to embrace . what is to be done , for the setling and establishing of the profession of the gospel , and the right apprehension of the minde of god therein , contra-distinct from all those false and erronious perswasions , which in these , or former dayes are , or have been held forth in opposition thereunto , was before declared ; how it is to be supported , maintained , protected , defended , safe-guarded , from all oppositions , disturbances , blasphemings , was then , and there set down . now supposing , that sundry persons living under the power and owning civill obedience to the magistrate , will not consent to sound doctrine , nor receive , in some things , ( fewer or more , lesse , or greater ) , that form of wholsome words , which he holds forth , and owns as the minde of christ in the gospel , nor communicate with him , in the worship , which by the authority of those words , or that truth , he hath as before established , it is inquired what is the duty of the magistrate in reference to the bringing of them into that subjection which is due unto , and acknowledgement of , the truth ; and to this i shall briefly give in my answer in these following positions . . in reference unto us , in this nation , the greatest difficulty in giving a full return to this question , ariseth from the great disorder of the churches of god amongst us : were the precious ▪ distinguished from the vile , churches rightly established , and church discipline exercised , that christians were under some orderly view , and men might be confidered , in their severall capacities wherein they stand , an easie finger would unty the knot of this quaere ; but being in that confusion , wherein we are , gathering into any order being the great work in hand , i suppose under favour , that the time is scarce come , for the proposall of this question : but yet something may be given in unto it though not so clear , as the former supposall being effected , would cause it to be . . the constant practise of the churches in former ages , in all their meetings for advise and counsell , to consent into some form of wholsome words , that might be a discriminating tessera of their communion in doctrine , being used in prime antiquitie , as is manifest in that ancient symbol commonly esteemed apostolicall , of the chief heads whereof mention in the like summary is made in the very first writers among them , having also warrant from the word of god , and being of singular use to hold out unto all other churches of the world , our apprehensions of the minde of god , in the chief heads of religion ) may be considered : if this be done by the authority of the magistrate , i mean if such a declaration of the truth , wherein the churches by him owned and protected , do consent , be held out as the confession of that truth which he embraceth , it will be of singular use unto , yea indeed must necessarily precede any determination of the former question : of the nature and use of confessions , &c. so much hath of late been learnedly disputed , that i shall not powre out any of mine own conceptions for the present about them , in that hasty tumultuary manner , wherein i am enforced to expose this essay . . those who dissent from the truth so owned , so established , so decreed , do so , either in lesse matters of small consequence , , and about things , generally confessed not fundamentall , or in great and more weighty heads of doctrine , acts of worship , and the like : both agreeing in this , that they will not hold communion as either to all , or some parts and duties thereof , which those churches and persons who do embrace the truth , so owned , as before , and act accordingly . for the first of these , or such as dissent about things of no great concernment in comparison of those other things wherein they do agree , with them , from whom they do dissent , i am bold positively to assert , that , saving and preserving the rules and qualifications set down under the second head , the magistrate hath no warrant from the word of god , nor command , rule , or precept to enable him , to force such persons to submit unto the truth as by him established , in those things , wherein they expresse a conscientious dissent , or to molest them with any civill penalty in case of refusall or non-submission : nor yet did i ever in my life meet with any thing in the shape of reason to prove it , although the great present clamor of this nation , is punctually as to this head : what ever be pretended , this is the helena about which is the great contest . what i pray will warrant him then to proceed ? will the laws against idolatry and blasphemy ? with their sanctions towards the persons of blasphemers , and idolaters ( for i must ingenuously confesse , all that which in my poore judgement looks with any appearance , of pressing toward haereticidium , is the everlasting equity of those judiciall laws : and the arbitrarinesse of magistrates , from a divine rule in things of the greatest concernment , to the glory of god if free from them ) and that these laws i doubt will scarcely be accommodated unto any thing under contest now in this age of the world among christians ) but shall i say , a warrant taken from hence for the compelling of men , sound in so many fundamentals , as were it not for the contest with them , we would acknowledge sufficient for the entertainment of the lord jesus in their bosomes , to subject to , and close with , the things contrary to their present light and apprehension , ( though under a promise of being taught of god ) or to inflict penalties upon a refusall so to do ? credat apella . shall the examples of extraordinary judgements upon idolaters , false prophets , by sword and fire from heaven , ( on magitians , apostates , and the like ) be here produced ? though such arguments as these have made thousands weep tears of blood , yet the consequence in reason , cannot but provoke laughter to all men not wholly forsaken of directing principles . what then shall be done , they 'l say ? they have been admonished , rebuked , convinced , must they now be let alone ? something as to this i shal adde , in the close of this discourse ; for the present let learned whitaker answer for me : and first , to the first , of their being confuted . possunt quidem controversiae ad externum forum deferri , & ibi desiniri : sed conscientia in eo foro non acquiescit , non enim potest conscientia sedari sine spiritu sancto . let controversies ( saith he ) be determined how you please , untill the conscience be quieted by the holy spirit , there will be little peace . unto which i shall not adde any thing , considering what i said before of conviction : and to the latter of letting them alone , to their own wayes . ecclesiae quidem optatius est levibus quibusdam dissensionibus ad tempus agitari , quam in perfida pace acquiescere ; non ergo sufficit aliquo modo pacem conservari nisi illam esse sanctam pacem constiterint : whit : con : . de rom : pont : qu : . cap. . sec : . better some trouble , then a perfidious , compell'd peace : see him handle this more at large , with some excellent conclusions to this purpose . con : . de rom. pont. q. . cap. . s . . pa. . & . for these then , ( and under this head i compare all such persons as keeping in practise within the bonds before laid forth , do so far forth hold the foundation , as that neither by beleeving what is not , or dis-beleeving what indeed is , they do take in , or keep off , any such thing as wherewithall being embraced , or without which , being rejected , the life of christ cannot in any case possibly consist , nor salvation by him be obtained ) as the magistrate is not bound by any rule or precept to assist and maintain them , in the practise of those things , wherein they dissent from the truth , so he is bound , to protect them in peace and quietnesse in the enjoyment of all civill rights and liberties ; nor hath he either warrant , or allowance , to proceed against them , as to the least penalty for their dissent in those things , they cannot receive . attempts for uniformity among saints , or such as for ought we can conclude , either from their opinions or practises may be so , by externall force are purely antichristian . now for those that stand at a greater distance from the publickly owned and declared truths , such as before we spake of , the orderly way of dealing with such , is in the first place to bring them off from the error of the way , which they have embraced : and untill that be done , all thoughts of drawing in their assent to that , from which at such a distance they stand , is vain and bootlesse . now what course is to be taken for the effecting of this ? spirituall wayes of healing are known to all , let them be used , and in case they prove fruitlesse , for ought that yet i can perceive , the person of men so erring must be left in the state and condition we described under the second head . and now to drive on this businesse any further by way of contest i will not ; my intention at the beginning , was onely positively to assert , and to give in briefly the scripturall and rationall bottoms , and proofs of those assertions ; wherein i have gone aside , to pull , or thrust a line of debate , i have transgressed against my own purpose ; i hope it will be pardoned : though i am heartily desirous any thing which passeth my pen , may be brought to the test , and my self reduced where i have gone amisse , yet my spirit faints within me , to think of that way of handling things in controversie , which some men by reciprocation of answers , and replyes have wound themselves into bolsecte , and staphylus , and stapleton seem to live again , and much gall from beneath to be powred into mens ink . oh the deep wounds , the gospel hath received by the mutuall keen invectives of learned men : i hope the lord will preserve me , from being engaged with any man of such a frame of spirit : what hath been asserted may easily be cast up in a few positions , the intelligent reader will quickly discern what is aymed at , and what i have stood to avow . if what is proposed , be not satisfactory , i humbly offer to the honorable parliament , that a certain number of learned men , who are differently minded as to this businesse of toleration , which almost every where is spoken against , may be desired and required to a fair debate of the matter in difference , before their own assembly , that so , if it be possible , some light may be given to the determination of this thing of so great concernment , in the judgements of all men , both on the one side and on the other , that so they may try all things , and hold fast that which is good . corol : that magistrates have nothing to do , in matters of religion , ( as some unadvisedly affirm ) is exceedingly wide from the truth of the thing it self . . corporall punishments for simple error , were found out to help build the tower of babell : si quid novisti rectius istis candidus imperti ; si non , his utere mecum . finis . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a e- heb. . , dan. . . ego nisi tumultus istos viderem , verbum dei in mundo non esse dicerem : luth. de s . a. isa. . , . revel. . . revel. . . notes for div a e- obs. . isa. . . exod. . . . zach. . . est quaedam aemulatio divinae rei , & humanae , tertul. ap. see the appendix at the end of this sermon . obser. rev. . , . observ. observ. obs. tert. apol. obs. obs. vse . obs. vse . obs. calv. in num. cap. . vse . . vse . . see the appendix about tolleration . vse . obs. obj. answ . vse . vse . . vse . . notes for div a e- acts . . acts . . tim. . . a august . de util . creden . cap. . thom. pp. q. a. . zanch. de ss. q. . cap. . reg. . tilen . syntag. theol. de interpret . s. thes. . whitak . de . ss. qu. . cap. . armin. disput. pri. thes. . . ames . med. theol. cap. . thes. . profana illic omnia quae apud nos sacra rursum concessa apud illos quae nobis incesta . moses novos ritus contrariosque caeteris mortalibus indidit . provectissima ad libidinem gens alienarum concubitum abstenint inter se nihil illicitum . tacitus , de judaeis hist. l. . judeos impulsore chresto quotidie tumultuames , roma ex pulit : fasly and foolishly , suet. claud. cap. . quaesitissimis paenis afficiebat , quos per flagitia invisos vulgus christianos appellabat . plu. tac. an. lib. . afflicti suppliciis christiani , genus hominum superstitionis novae ac maleficae : sueton. in nerone : cap. . ob. ans. pos. . pos. pos. pos. con : . con : . con : . for this cause the emperors of old still allowed the novatians the liberty of worship . pos. of iudgements . qu : ans : the church told of mr. ed. bagshaw's scandals and warned of the dangerous snares of satan now laid for them in his love-killing principles with a farther proof that it is our common duty to keep up the interest of the christian religion and protestant cause in the parish churches, and not to imprison them by a confinement to tolerated meetings alone / by richard baxter ... baxter, richard, - . approx. kb of 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(eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) the church told of mr. ed. bagshaw's scandals and warned of the dangerous snares of satan now laid for them in his love-killing principles with a farther proof that it is our common duty to keep up the interest of the christian religion and protestant cause in the parish churches, and not to imprison them by a confinement to tolerated meetings alone / by richard baxter ... baxter, richard, - . [ ], p. [s.n.], london : . errata on p. [ ]. reproduction of original in union theological seminary library, new york. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng bagshaw, edward, - . religious tolerance -- england -- early works to . - tcp assigned for keying and markup - aptara keyed and coded from proquest page images - emma (leeson) huber sampled and proofread - emma (leeson) huber text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion the church told of mr. ed. bagshaw's scandals , and warned of the dangerous snares of satan , now laid for them , in his love-killing principles : with a farther proof that it is our common duty to keep up the interest of the christian religion , and protestant cause , in the parish churches ; and not to imprison them , by a confinement to tolerated meetings alone . by richard baxter , a militant servant of christ , for faith , hope , and love , unity , concord , and peace , against their contraries on both extremes . london , printed in the year mdc lxx ii. errata . page . l. . for amareduci . r. amazedness . p. . l. . for care. r. cure. & l. . for impertinently . r. impenitently p. . l. . for perry . r. peury . p. . l. . r. up by some . & l. . dele the. & l. . r. live . & l. . for unmeasurably . r. unanswerably . the church told of mr. bagshaw's scandals , and warned of his dangerous snares . the svmme . cor. . . your glorying is not good : know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump ? rom. . . let not us do evil that good may come : whose damnation is just . jam. . . for the wrath of man worketh not the righteousness of god. jam. . , , , , , , . the tongue is a fire ; a world of iniquity : so is the tongue among our members , that it defileth the whole body : and setteth on fire the course of nature , and it is set on fire of hell — the tongue can no man tame : it is an unruly evil : full of deadly poison : out of the same mouth proceedeth blessing and cursing — who is a wise man and endued with knowledge among you ? let him shew out of a good conversation his works , with meckness of wisdome . but if ye have bitter ( zeal ) envying and strife in your hearts , glory not , and lye not against the truth . this wisdome descendeth not from above , but is earthly , sensual , devillish . for where envying and strife is , there is confusion , and every evil work . rom. . , . now , i beseech you , brethren , mark them which cause divisions and offences , contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned , and avoid them ( but not the churches , or the innocent for their sake ) for they that are such serve not the lord iesus christ , but their own belly , and by good words and fair speeches , deceive the hearts of the simple . act. . . also of your own selves shall men arise , speaking perv●rse things , to draw away disciples after them . cor. . . for there must be also heresies ( or sects ) among you , that they which are approved , may be made manifest among you . matth. . , , , , , , . then went the pharisees and took counsel , how they might entangle him in his talk — is it lawful to give tribute to caesar or not ? but iesus perceived their wickedness , and said , why tempt ye me , ye hypocrites ? shew me the tribute-money — render to caesar the things that are caesars , and to god the things that are gods. matth. . , . then are the children free . notwithstanding lest we should offend them . rev. . . for without are dogs — and whosoever loveth and maketh a lye . psal. . , . lord , who shall abide in thy tabernacles , who shall dwell in thy holy hill ? he that walketh uprightly , and worketh righteousness , and speaketh the truth in his heart , that backbiteth not with his tongue , nor doth evil to his neighbour , nor taketh up a reproach against his neighbour . christs own doctrine and practice . luke . . as his custome was , he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day , and stood up for to read — john . . i spake openly to the world ; i ever taught in the synogogue , and in the temple , whither the iews alwayes resort , and in secret have i said nothing . mark . . shew thy self to the priest , and offer for thy cleansing ... matth. . . . the scribes and pharisees sit in moses seat : all therefore whatsoever they bid you observe , observe and do : but do not ye after their works ; for they say and do not . ( what they were , see in the rest of the chapt. ) mat. . , , , . iudge not , that ye be not judged : for with what judgement ye judge , ye shall be judged , and with what measure ye measure , it shall be measured to you again : and why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brothers eye , but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye ? — thou hypocrite , first cast out the beam out of thy own eye . — to the church and to posterity . chap. i. had i seen , as i have done , the spring , multiplication , growth , and fruits of dividing . principles , dispositions , and practices in these kingdomes , not being totally innocent therein my self , in my unexperienced youth ; had i seen so much bloud shed , so many governments overturned , and so many ministers openly reviled , abused , ejected , silenced , and so many damnable heresies risen up ; and all this done in the name of god ; had i my self been one of them that have been cast out of my publick ministry and maintenance , with about more at once , and seen the pittiful case of too many congregations in the land ; and all this as the fruit of former church-divisions , obstinately continued twenty years , ( to look no farther ) and the new effect of the same spirit still working in both extremes ; i say , had i seen and felt all this , and yet taken the spirit , the principles and practises of division , in one side or other , for a virtue , or a little sin , i had been guilty of such horrid , wilful blindness , as every christian's soul should hate : and had i seen what strong temptations are lately given to propagate these evils ; and what advantage satan hath got by the malignity of some , to increase the bitter censoriousness of others , and to pull down the good old principles of concord , on pretence that now the case is changed ? had i seen the fruits of gods indignation against a self-destroying people , in londons plague , and dreadful flames , and in our present church-convulsions ? had i seen what visible dangers are over us , of a condition yet worser than all this ? had i seen how many thousand honest christians are in danger of being sinners or sufferers by this evil ; i say , had i stood by , and seen all this , and held my tongue , and let men sight like dog and bear , and not interposed a word of counsel or controulment to the wasting fire ? i had been guilty of an obduratious self-saving , and perfidious silence , unbeseeming the ministry , or the christian name . having therefore begun long ago to publish my testimony and council against the dividing-evils ; in fore-seeing the critical day and danger , i took the liberty of the season once more , to discharge my conscience , though with slender hopes , and to reason , and even beg for peace ; that had it been possible as much as in us lay , we might have lived peaceably with all . when those opportunities and hopes were gone , ( and some glimmering once and again since vanished , ) one side having discharged me from speaking to them any more , and god i think discharged me at present , i saw nothing more to be attempted but with the other ; whose duty for concord and christian love ( after many years silence ) i opened in a treatise called the cure of church-divisions : but yet would not publish it without an addition of the duty of those pastors that most complain against separation , lest i should exasperate their minds against those that i instructed , and should tempt them to overlook their own miscarriages . but more of this then i there adjoyned , it could not be expected that the licenser should pass . the only man that rose up against this writing with furious indignation , was mr. edw. bagshaw , a man that had before written against bishop morley's letter published against me , and lain in prison many years . and gave the world a notable proof of one of the chief passages displeasing to them in my book ; viz. that there is a marvellous affinity between the spirit of persecution , and of sinful separation , though several opinions or capacities cause them to operate several wayes . by this time i discerned the guilty from the innocent , by the cry which signified their smart . i had seen so much of the workings of that spirit , that i expected not to escape their sharpest censure . and verily , i expected neither preferment , nor so much as liberty to preach , as a reward from the other side , instead of the favour of those that i knew i was to lose . nor yet had i such a contempt of them , or a desire to be bitterly censured and reviled , as to invite men to it ( as the circumcellians importuned men to kill them . ) i foresaw that some interessed men would be angry , as supposing that i would hinder their alienating work , though they could not deny but that i spake the truth : i foresaw that many that look but to the present day and place , would say , it was unseasonable , and served the prelates design , not considering that their design is not to bad , but that some things which seem their design , do also seem the design of christ , and his churches good , and mens salvation . i foreknew those that make uncharitable divisions their very religion , would make it a part of their religious dutys to call me as bad as their distempers do incline them . these things i prognosticated in my preface . as tertullian saith of the christians martyrdome , it is more the choice of our own will , than the effect of your power . i. e. we dye because we will dye , rather than not do our duty , by the omission of which we could escape : so i say , i could easily have kept as large an interest in the favour and applause of all the parties that ever railed at me , as most men of my profession , as their own words have told me . what did it gain me in the world , to do what i have done , to lose the favour of the papists , the ithacian prelatists , the anabaptists , the separatists , the quakers , the seekers , &c. but i saw whither the temptations of this age did tend . and this was a work that some body must do , ( or else woe to the ministry that in their very sufferings would be so unfaithful . ) and i thought my reputation with the uncurable as fit to be cast away , and my self as fit to bear their slanders , as most of my brethrens , who had more use for an interest in them than i had . and i remembred that ill-gotten goods must be restored ; and without restitution , no remission : though i can truly say , that i disliked and decryed this spirit from my beginnings , yet when i preached first , the favour and loud applause of some good people , tainted a little with this disease , did tempt me to please them too often , by exclaiming too smartly against the corruptions of the church : though i said nothing but what i was confident was true , yet i think i did not well to cherish their inor●inate censoriousness in such matters . and having gotten sometime a great stock of estimation with such angry persons , by means which i dare not wholly justifie , ( though it made me the more capable to do them good ) i did voluntarily surrender it to them again , before they took it from me ; and i did yield to serve god at the rate of so small a part of self-denial , rather than be silent at such a time as this . i have long ago preached to drunkards and other ungodly people , till they openly rose against me in tumults in the streets , and sought my life . and shall i forbear to speak that truth to ignorant-proud dividers , which is necessary to heal the church and them , and all for fear lest their passion and partiality should shew their guilt , by their calling me what they are themselves . they call out for valiantness in suffering themselves : and shall i be so cowardly as to fear their false reports ? they cry out against the fear of man : and shall i fear their impotent revilings ? they will be my witnesses , that it is a duty to deny our selves , and to forsake all for the cause of christ : and i am as certain that love and unity are his cause , as i am that he is the christ : and shall i think the good thoughts and words of some of his froward children , too great a matter to forsake and lose : they themselves think that we should rather suffer a prison or death , then joyn with the holiest minister and people in the use of the common prayer : and should i that know the difference think , that love and concord are not matters more worthy to be suffered for ? when first the city and countrey had sounded with abundance of untruths about my book , while it was yet but in the press , at last the man that openly assaulted it when it came forth , did use the same instruments which himself decryed , and filled his libel with as many untruths as ever i saw heaped up in so small a room ( except once in such another piece , that was about eight years elder . ) and the cause it self he shamefully slip'd over ; as if his spirit and interest had directed him to no other means , but only to attempt to asperse the person that was against him : i wondred that no soberer a man rose up to defend dividing-principles . and i was glad , that in an age of such temptations , he had no more approvers among the ministers . when i had answered that libel , he sent forth another , which instead of professing repentance , did double the number of his vntruths , and cast out more of his bilious excrements , but pretended also to say somewhat for his separating . principles and cause . when i had replyed to that , and admonished him to repent of his false doctrines and crimes , and above fourscore visible vntruths , he hath vented a third libel , of which i am now to give you a more particular account . chap. ii. i must needs again remember the readers , . that the design of my book was not particular , to reconcile men only to the parish churches ; but universal , against those principles in mens minds , which cause divisions in all other churches , as well as that , and will never suffer christians to unite and agree where they prevail . . that i was so far from perswading any minister to the present conformity , that i perswaded not the readers , . either to use the ceremonies ; . or to communicate with any persecutors ; . or to own diocesans ; . nor to communicate with , or own a diocesan church ; . nor to communicate with , or own any parish minister , that is intolerable , through insufficiency , heresie , or wickedness ; . nor to speak one false word , nor to do one sinful action , to obtain communion with the best church in the world ; . nor to prefer communion with a worse church and minister , before communion with a better , where it may be had , without greater loss than benefit ; . nor to forbear any lawful endeavours in private for each others good ; . nor to forsake a lawful faithful pastor , merely because he is cast out of the tythes and temple ; . nor to take a man for your pastor , merely because he hath possession of the tythes and temple ; . nor that a lawful faithful minister should give over his ministerial work , or not perform it to the best edificacation of the church , whoever is displeased by it , or whatever it cost him ; which i take to be downright perfidiousness against his ordination , and sacrilege , as being the alienation of a devoted consecrated person ; ( yea , greater sacrilege than alienating church lands . ) . nor did i perswade any minister , that instead of flying to another city ( as christ once commanded ) he must needs fly from all cities : ( for the diocesans that think cities only were the seats of churches and bishops , might inferr , that if it be lawful to desert the souls of all in cities and corporations , it is but a little step farther to d●sert the villages also . ) . nor did i ever perswade any minister to go to a parish church in city or corporation , who is by law forbidden to come within five miles of it ; and who by appearing there , doth put himself into prison for six months in the common jayl . . nor did i ever perswade any to hear the common prayer , or go to the parish churches , merely for fear of punishment , and to save themselves . none of all these were the matters i that medled with . . but the things that i perswaded men to , were these ; . to disclaim the foresaid love-killing and church-dividing principles . . particularly to joyn with a parish church , that hath a good minister , and that ordinarily , in case you can enjoy no better , without more loss than the benefit is like to be . . and extraordinarily to joyn sometimes with such a parish , even when you have a better , to shew by what principles you walk ; unless when some apparent hurt forbid it , which for that time is like to be greater than the good . pardon this repetition of the state of my case ; for without it i cannot be understood , and his repeated untruths require it . and now to his third libel , called the review . sect. . the title page speaks of [ all my immodest calumnies confuted ] when . he neither proveth one calumny in my book ; nor confuteth one detection of his untruths . sect. . he cunningly tells you , in an advertisement , that ten or eleven have read his present , citations of my words ; as if that justified fourscore falshoods before written . sect. . pag. . he confesseth it is [ foolish and wicked ] to publish fourscore vntruths in five or six sheets of paper ; and yet thinks not himself obliged ( it seems ) any farther to vindicate himself , by one considerable word , but as it were by hoping his readers will not believe that he was [ so foolish and wicked . ] doth church-discipline require no better defence ? nor no more repentance for above fourscore published untruths than this ? sect. . instead of repentance , he inviteth his readers to usurp gods prerogative , as he doth , and to judge my heart , that it was never truly humbled , and that my repentance is hypocritical . sect. . thus lying down impenitently under all the crimes , false doctrines , and untruths which he published , he now puts them off as bye-matters , and taketh on him to return to the question , which he saith was first designedly handled between us , which he saith is , [ whether conformity at this day upon conscientious grounds , can be defended by any , or at least with any kind of honesty , be contended for by you ] thus he will play small game no more , nor write untruths by parcels , but let you know , that it is not one untruth shall be the substance of his discourse . if telling the church be a duty , it is not railing to name the sin . i therefore desire the church to consider whether it be easie among the parties that he separateth from , or worse than they to meet with so great impudency in forgeries . i know by equivocation almost any words may be verified ; but when there is no explication adjoyned , the rule of humane speech is , that analogum per se positum stat prosignificato famosiore : that is , analogous , ( or equivocal ) words put alone without an ex exposition , are to be taken in the most common or famous sense . now the word [ conformity ] in its old and usual sense doth signifie , that conformity by subscriptions , oaths , and ceremonies , which distinguish the people called non-conformists from the conformists , who yet were notoriously distinguished from the separatists . it 's true , that it may be called conformity , if we are baptized , if we profess christianity , if we read the scriptures , if we use the common translation , if we go to hear a sermon in publick , if we use the lords prayer , &c. in all this we do as the church of england doth . but this is not it that is notified by the common use of this name . now do but note the front of the man. . the world knoweth that i never conformed , as the law obligeth ministers to do ; that i lose my whole ministerial maintenance , ( much more than ever he did , all things considered ) and which is a thousand times more , the liberty of my ministry in publick , because i do not conform . . he knoweth that i have professed in all the three books , which he writeth against , that i neither am for conformity , nor ever wrote for it . he knoweth how distinctly i excluded that from the question , and stated the question far otherwise , which i meddle with . yet dare this man make this false profession of our difference . . yea , when it is [ separation ] in plain words , and not mere non-conformity , which he undertakes to defend on his very title page . . and that i have oft professed to plead for the same cause that dod , hildersham , cartwright , paget , bradshaw , brightman , ball , gifford , and the other nonconformists defended , against the separatists of those times . ●●d will you believe him if he say that they pleaded for [ conf●rmity . ] sect. . he again repeateth his most palpable untruth , in comparing me in the warrs with [ any one whomsoever ] passing over my answers , [ adding , that generals or parliament would have signified little , had they not had such chaplains ] when i had told him , ( and he durst not deny it ) that the armies were raised , before i ever spake to parliament man or officer , or ever preached to them ; yea , two years before i was in the army , whither i went with an open profession to disswade them from the changes which they made : my judgment forsaking their cause in . when their commission at the new-modelling left out [ for the king ] which before had run [ for the defence of the kings person , &c. ] and the rest of their intentions evidently to me appearing . till then , in coventry garison , i did speak all that which in the book cited by him i expressed . nor did i ever say , i did but little , as he vainly intimateth . sect. . pag. . by a false representation of my repentance , ( whether ignorantly or maliciously ) he would insinuate , that i repent of good as well as of evil ; or else that such as he , and his adherents the separatists , have none of that sort of culpability to repent of ; or else that they disclaim so inglorious a thing as repentance is , and will stand to their sins at death and judgment , let god say against them what he will. the first is an intimation which maketh no small part of his book to be one continued untruth . when one part is spent in making the ignorant and suspicious believe that i wrote for conformity ; the next is constituted of another untruth , in the false description of my repentance . but i know the design of his railing , is to draw me to talk of those matters over rashly , ( about wars and governments ) ( which i repent of talking of so much already ) that he may catch somewhat for his malice to make use of to a farther end : fain he would make the world believe that i must speak treason , or be a coward or a turn coat : not with the simplicity as children dare one another into the dirt ; but with the kindness that traps and snares are set for birds , to catch and kill them . and if murderous malice , and lying be made by christ the devils sins , and the marks of his children , ioh. . . ioh. . . i think those that are notoriously thus self-stigmatized , are fitter to be separated from , than to separate from others , as unworthy of their good company . i must profess , that as in my answers to divers such men as this , i have as near as i could , imitated my great example , so i cannot see but this man , and others that have led him this same way , have exactly imitated the malicious pharisees ; and let him be also their imitator , who thinketh them wiser and more stout and valiant men than christ ; matth. . , , , , , , . then went the pharisees and took counsel how they might entangle him in his talk , ( that they might either accuse him of treason , as after they did , or else make the people hate him , as a favourer of the roman tyranny , as they accounted it ) master , we know that thou art true , and teachest the way of god in truth ( and wilt not hide thy judgement by dark speeches , nor bauk plain truth : ) neither carest thou for any man ; for thou regardest not the persons of men : ( o malicious commendations ! ) tell us therefore what thinkest thou : is it lawful to give tribute unto caesar , or not ? but iesus perceived their wickedness , and said , why tempt ye me , ye hypocrites ? shew me the tribute money : and they shewed him a penny . and he saith unto them , whose is this image and superscription ? they say unto him caesars . then saith he unto them , render therefore unto caesar the things that are caesars , and unto god the things that are gods. i hope mr. bagshaw will neither say , that christ here plainly decided the controversie intended by the questioners ; nor yet deny but he seemeth to do it , so far as silenced his adversaries then , and as putteth expositors hard to it now , to understand his meaning : ( see dr. hammond on the words . ) and i am in some hope yet , that as foul-mouth'd as he is , he will not call christ a lyar , or dissembler , or a favourer of tyranny , or a coward ; that would say any thing to escape sufferings ; but rather of the two think that he is not deceived , who thinketh his own way somewhat like to the murderous-tempting-hypocrites in the text. as for my repenting , which he ignorantly and maliciously talketh of , i shall now say no more to the reader , but this : . that i expect that the enemies of repentance be enemies to me . . that i little regard such censures as this man , who either cannot through ignorance , or will not through malice or passion , understand plain english when he readeth it ; nor know the difference between the disowning of evil , and of good. sect. . pag. . he intimateth by a question this visible falshood , that i said , [ i thought nothing of divinity in the cause , ] so hard is it for ignorance and rashness to speak truth . this is because i said that [ i knew of no controversie in divinity about it , but in politicks and law. ] and can one that hath ever learned to read english , and ever exercised his thoughts of such matters , be possibly so ignorant , as to think this is all one as to say , that there was nothing of divinity in the cause ? their controversies were , whether the parliament had authority to raise their arms against the kings will , prohibition , and opposition ? and , whether the king had authority to raise his arms against theirs ? and is this a controversie in divinity ? poor souls ! will you be seduced to think that christ or paul must decide all controversies of forms and degrees of power in republicks ? which text is it that telleth you , that the militia belonged to the parliament , or what degree of power the courts of justice have ? did paul , rom. . tell you , whether nero or the senate were the higher power ? did christ tell the tempting hypocrites , whether caesar justly coined money in , or for iudaea ? but what ? hath divinity therefore nothing to do in law controversies ? yes surely , both about the efficient , end , and motives . politicks and law tell us which is the highest power ; and divinity telleth us , that we must obey it , and that for conscience-sake , as being of god. divinity telleth you , that religious interest may be the just end and motive of a war : but withall , that it must be made by those only that have just power to do it : but who hath just power , the laws must tell us . thus , reader , the mans ignorance and false speaking have lengthened thy trouble . sect. . ib. [ that my love of ease and fear of suffering ] cause strange changes in my corrupt and carnal understanding , is at least a single untruth , and may be a double one , for ought he knows , that knoweth not the heart : i am sure it is a fault , even in mr. bagshaw , to make himself a heart-searching-god , while he maketh the prayers of his betters to be idolatry . sect. . ib. but he professeth , that he dealeth thus [ in zeal to the glory of god , love to the cause of christ and non-conformity , which i have deserted . ] where , . it is a repeated falshood that i have deserted the cause of non-conformity : i challenge him openly to name even one point of it , in which i have changed my judgment these yeares : ( which i speak not as my praise , who in those things have grown no wiser , except in knowing the same things better ) to this day . . what sin will you call it to father all these falshoods on [ the glory of god , and the cause of christ ? doth his cause and glory need mens lies ? how many hundreds thus in a few more libels may you publish , if satan bless them , as hitherto he hath done , with an increase and multiply . ] sect. . pag. . he reciteth many words of my disputations of church government , and laboureth ( whether by gross ignorance or malice , i know not ) to perswade the reader that i retract or contradict them ; and saith [ we stand amazed you should so soon and so much forget all that you have said . ] this is not a single falshood , but maketh up no small part of his book . reader , do but hear , and judge whether any thing except his amareduci can excuse such horrid deliberate untruths ? . i never retracted any of that book , setting aside the dedication . . i do still profess that i am of the same judgment which that book expresseth . . i have in the greatest audience told the bishops , that i stand to it , and provoked them to answer it . . there is not a word of contradiction to that book , in my cure of church-divisions , which he writes against : and am i not as like to understand my own writings as this man is ? . that very book pleadeth as much , and much more for a moderate episcopacy , the lawfulness of a liturgy , and those circumstances or ceremonies which i judge lawful , ( as kneeling at the sacrament ) than my later books have done . . it was to me a considerable providence which drew me , when the sectaries were at the very highest , to write that book , which had i written since the king returned , they would have imputed to temporizing , or a change . . the very same men that now rail so loud against me , said nothing that ever i could hear of , against that book , that contained more than now i have written for ; but then it passed uncontradicted by them that now rail at half as much . so , is it not a strange fate which that poor book incurreth , that the men of both sides plead it as for them , and commend it , whilst they condemn the author , as if he were himself against it . the reverend bishop whom mr. bagshaw wrote against , alledged it in the greatest audience ( before his majesty , dukes , lords , and bishops ) with no less commendation than these words , [ no man hath spoken better of this than mr. baxter . ] and now mr. bagshaw citeth it with applause : reader , who is in such a case as i ? the bishop is for my book : mr. bagshaw is for it : and i am the man that am against my self , whilst i openly tell them both that i still stand to it as my judgment ( only not owning any words that any party shall justly find to be too sharp . ) surely , they labour to bring me to that reputation among these contenders , as plato was among the philosophers , whom every sect took to be the second , or next the best . sect. . but pag. . he thinks that he talketh like a man of brains , when he inferreth , that [ if they be such kind of persons as i have represented them , they ought immediately to be forsaken , and forborn , as to any acts of church-communion ] answ. but , . i never said of them , that they printed , besides false doctrines , fourscore untruths in two small libels , as you have done , and give the world neither vindication nor repentance : and yet you , or your disciples , will not inferr thus against your self . . deceitful man ! did i ever lay the charge you mention , against all the honest conformable pastors of the parish churches in the land , who have no hand in any thing that you can call an imposition , or a persecution ? nay , that own not ( as they think ) the diocesan prelacy as such , but only episcopacy in general , and diocesans , as the kings officers ? did i ever lay that charge against all the christians in the parish churches ? no , nor against all the bishops neither . . and must all the churches in a kingdome be excommunicated or forsaken , for the cause of a few men , whom few of them ever knew or saw . this is like the popes interdicting kingdomes . . and if you separated but from the individual offenders , should it not be done in a regular way ? why go you about to blind the ignorant with such palpable fallacies as these . is it truth , that men must be thus cheated into with errours ? sect. . pag. . from what i said [ the episcopal churches would then have been , if they had but had a meer toleration in the times that openly discountenanced them , when the countenanced parties should set up by themselves : ] he inferreth , as if i had called them such now , when no other are tolerated , and that in all those parishes where are good ministers , and no other churches . thus palpable falshood is the very life of all his libel . sect. . ib. the self-contradicting man professeth , to follow the light which i once had in this , and yet that my present light is nothing else but confusion of darkness ; when i said the same then in that very book that now i do , and now own that book which i wrote then ; and all to carry on a cheating falshood , as if in this i had changed my judgment . sect. . i had almost pass'd over a shameless falshood , pag. . and that you may know i do not speak at randome , particularly , when at gloucester you preached upon [ curse ye meroz , ] and now you say you do repent : do you expect ever to be believed again ? ] which is a mere composition of vntruths . . i never preached on [ curse ye meroz ] in my life , if he mean that text , or those words : i never was at gloucester but about one month before the wars : in which i preached thrice or four times : of which one on a fast , had respect to the times : which was on ezek. . . son of man , can these bones live ? and my business was to shew the difficulty of the reparation and reformation of a sinful lapsed church : in which i mentioned many things , and sorts of people that would hinder it , but neither my notes , ( which i yet have by me ) or memory , have any thing at all that tended unto war , or resistance of authority . yet if any other sermon there , did touch the times , which i remember not , i am sure it was not on that text which i never preached on . . and he as falsly insinuateth that i [ say i repent ] of what i preached at gloucester ; so hard is it to him to speak that which is not utterly false . sect. . pag. . in a parenthesis , he saith [ if there be any ( difference between you and us . ) ] the libeller filling three pamphlets with heinous charges , and after ( and before also ) questioning , whether indeed there be any difference between him and me ? sect. . pag. , with as insolent ignorance doth he feign me to make that which he calleth [ devised worship ] viz. the liturgy to be idolatry in my foresaid book , and now to repent of , and oppose what i held : and all because disp. p. . i say to such as they would suspend , silence , excommunicate , punish , all such as will not pray to god in the words that they impose on them ; that if reasons will not allay their impious distemper , but will domineer over mens consciences , and the church of god , we must leave them to him , that being the lord and law-giver of the church , is jealous of his prerogative , and abhorreth idols . remember that i spake of none but the clergy . and is there any man that excelleth not in ignorance and rashness , that would have thought here , that it is a form of prayer , or liturgy , that i call [ idols ] ? or that could not see at the first reading , that i call the persons only the idols , that usurp the prerogative of god. and will this pittiful man still falsly insinuate or suppose , that all the honest christians or ministers of all the parish churches in england are such usurping imperious idols ? yea , or all the bishops either ? even martyn himself as well as ithacius ? thus are poor souls abused by deceivers . yea , note that in the same disputation cited by him , i largely prove the lawfulness of liturgies and forms , and the necessity of them in some cases . sect. . ib. yet doth he again most falsly say , that [ i have unworthily receded from what i wrote , and yet addeth , that i have not , that he knoweth of , repented of it . receded from it , and yet not repented of : what a forgetful self-contradicter is this man ? and so he thanketh god that i was heretofore stirred up to write so much , which now condemneth me , even for the same that i there and then did write , and never repented of . sect. . his next subject , where he saith that [ i argue against the divine and self-evidencing authority of the holy scripture ] is one of the visiblest lyes that ever i saw written by a man : when i had not only said the contrary , but told where i had voluminously proved it , to give me not a word of sense in answer , but write as if he had never read my reply . being to tell the church , i must desire them to consider , whether a more impudent studied lye , impenitently insisted in , after a double detection , without an answer , was ever presented to their view ? and , whether they can name me a christian writer in the world more infamously self-stigmatized with this vice ? the rest that he writeth of it , i cannot perswade my self to tire the reader with an answer to . only i note that he citeth mr. hildersham's words , with the false intimation that i contradict them , while the same worthy man is both applauded by him , and suppositively taken for a patron of idolatry , as one that perswadeth men not onely to come to church and common-prayer , but to come to the beginning . false speakers do thus ordinarily contradict themselves . sect. . when pag. . he saith , that a papist is worse than of no religion , i say no more to him , but that overdoing is the devils last way of undoing , and that such men be they that multiply and confirm the papists . sect. . ibid. p. . he would have you know what religion he is of , and how he meaneth to save his disciples from idolatry , saying , had not i learned the truth of christian religion , from better arguments , and a more certain way of reasoning than any your books afford , i had still been plunged in the depths of atheism . ] now , . note that reasoning in a certain way , preserveth him from atheism . . that he seemeth to say , that he was an atheist , by saying [ i had still continued so . ] but you must not expect such base mutability from him , as when he hath denied the living god , to confess it plainly , and profess repentance . . note that he will be an atheist still , and it seems perswade the separatists to be such , till he hath better reasons than my books afford . now the reasons that my books afford are these ( note them reader . ) first , from the witness of god the creator in the frame of nature . secondly , from the witness of god our redeemer , in his supernatural revelations . . from the witness of god the holy ghost , on the scriptures , and in the soul. first , printing on the scripture the image of gods power , wisdome , and goodness ( which is its self-evidence . ) and next by the scripture printing the said image of gods power , wisdom , and goodness on every holy soul , ( which none but god is able to do . ) these three testimonies of the father , son , and holy ghost , is the sum of my evidence enlarged . now mr. bagshaw will be an atheist still , and it seems perswade the separatists to be such , till he hath better reasons for his faith , than the witness of the creator , the redeemer , and the sanctisier ; god the father , son , and holy ghost . this is his zeal for the glory of god , and the cause of christ , and the good of souls . sect. . yet pag. . with much railing , he insinuateth this abominable falshood and calumny against christs excellent servants , that calvin , preston , hildersham , perkins , &c. would have no more done in asserting a deity and christianity , than to tell men , [ that all is true that god speaketh in his word , and that propria luce , it is evident that the scripture is his word , and that to all gods elect he will give his spirit to discern it , and thus much alone is better than all these disputes and reasonings . ] whereas , . these same men have all of them said much more themselves in their writings . . and paul preached otherwise to the athenians , acts . and to others . . and what kind of preaching would this man make among turks and heathens that deny the scriptures ? you see , . he will leave out all the natural evidences of a deiy , and of mans immortal state , and so all the principles in which we are agreed with them . . he will leave out all the historical proofs that these books were written by christs apostles and evangelists , and are not altered since . and . that he will leave out the use of mans ministry , in translating or preaching ; and will let the illiterate reader look on a hebrew and greek bible , till propria luce , they know it is of god ; or at least , that the minister , when they say , how shall i know that this is gods word ? shall only bid them read it , ( whether they can or not ) and if they be elect , the spirit will cause them to discern that propria luce it will shew it self to be gods word ; but if they be not elect , they have no remedy . and what need preachers to tell men this ? bibles may be sent by other hands ; and will be bibles whether we preach or not . and the elect are elect before we preach to them . and if the man know that light here is but a metaphor , what can he mean by it but [ objective evidence . ] and must we only tell heathens , that the scriptures have their proper evidence , and not tell them what that evidence is ? is this his preaching ? yet , that you may see what such men would bring the church & world to , he adds , p. . [ if understand anything of the true nature of religion , &c. and warneth all persons most earnestly that they go his way ; and most falsly addeth , that i lay my foundation in the corrupt will of man , and build my superstructure in the carnal understanding , and leave no room for true holiness and mortification , but the root of sin within remaineth untouched . and is not this , like the pope , the most uncharitable man of infallibility , who hath better reasonings against atheism , and for a holy state of souls , and ( unless to forbid all reasoning be it ) will not vouchsafe to open them to the church , or bless mankind by a noble communication of them . sect. . pag. . having ended , he beginneth again with his witticismes : and . i speak absurdly and insignificantly , for saying of his rash , and carelesly uttered untruth , that it 's privatively voluntary , that is , when the will omits its office . where ( saith this learned man ) i am much to seek what can be meant by privatively voluntary ; or how any action can be done where the will omits its office . ans. and i have no mind to take such a person for my scholar ; and therefore let me be excused , if i leave him ( and such proud ignorant persons ) in his beloved ignorance . let him believe that a man is a beast , and that his rational faculties were not made to rule the sensitive , or that the will either never omits its ruling office , or if it do , the sensitive cannot act ; or that the will is not the principle quoad exercitium , of humane acts , as the intellect is quoad specificationem ; or that if the will omit this imperate act , ad exercitium , and the sense lead men never so far , that yet the act is not reputatively voluntary ; that is , that mans will not guilty of any privation or omission of loving god , of feeding our children , of giving to the poor , of praying , meditating , &c. or that such omissions are not imputable to the will as sins : when all say that all sin is voluntary . i do not wonder that this man is against bishops tooth and nail ; even as they are ordainers : for , as loose as they are said to be in their ordinations , i doubt whether they would not reject him for utter ignorance and insu●●icience , who hath no more knowledge of the nature of sin , and no more reason to cure his atheism . sect. . his next high witticisme is , that i mention [ areceiving obediential power in a carnal will ; which receiving you call ( saith he ) a passive power ; where the comment is harder than the text. answ. reader , dost thou not blush , that among men that have been at an university , there should be found a man so ignorant , ( and so proud of it ) as not to know what potentia obedientialis is , in common use of philosophers and divines ; or not to know that every creature is passive in receiving the divine influx , or operation ; or that recipere est pati , unless when we take the word recipere analogically and morally . if these things were but hard to the man , why is he so proud as to disdain them ? sect. . the next and last is , when he had said that [ it is not corruption barely , nor imposition barely , that is a sufficient ground for any to separate ; i had no rag to cover his [ barely ] with , but charitably to interpret him , as meaning by barely [ the quatenus , or the act formally as such , without taking in the greatness of the matter of that corruption or imposition : that is , that it is not corruption formally , as corruption , but the greatness of the matter corrupted ; nor imposition formally , as an act of imposition , but as an imposition of some ill or unsufferable thing : i could not have put sense on his words by any other interpretation : yet doth he so disdain my kindness , and to have so much sense imputed to him , that he pronounceth the sentence that [ i and the schools may call these distinctions , but indeed they are nothing but learned nonsence . and if the reader be not yet convinced that pride is the father , and ignorance the mother of our errours , contentions , divisions , scandals and confusions , he shuts his eyes here against a most convincing instance . sect. . p. . for saying upon the invitation of his sophistry , that i am perswaded if christ came personally and visibly to demand it , the king would yield up his crown to him ; instead of defending his errour , which this reason did detect , he only sentenceth me to be like the mockers that deride the promise of his coming . sect. . ib. he next compareth me to boyes and children , as pretending to know no difference in point of imposition , between one that useth a form of his own , and he that is imposed on to use only the form of another , p. . . thus the man and his ten or eleven friends , whom he chargeth in his premonition with attesting his veracity , are all made falsities by him . there is not a word of my pretending to know no difference : nor was my comparison at all [ between one that useth a form of his own , and he ( he meaneth him ) that is imposed on , to use only the form of another , as he is himself imposed on by that other , but only as both impose upon the people . no doubt there is a difference in the passive part , between the minister that is imposed on , and him that is not . but i still provoke him to tell me any difference in their several impositions on the people , which at all concerneth our present controversie . yes , he addeth [ in the one case the hearer is alwayes at perfect liberty how far and how often he will joyn : in the other he is alwayes tied up , and must either joyn in such a prescript form of words , or none at all ; and this he knoweth before hand , &c. ] answ. here are two differences pretended . . reader , is there in the first any shadow of the truth at all ? yet are there some men that such words will take with , contrary to the common sense of mankind ; as if it were not the papists only that can believe against all common sense . what reason can he give why one that is present is not as free to joyn , or not to joyn in heart , with any passage in the common prayer , as in a free prayer of the minister ? i do seriously wonder what made the man speak these words . when the minister prayeth freely , i may in heart either joyn with him , neglect him , or dissent : and what hinders me from doing so at common-prayer ? he saith , i must joyn in that form , or none at all . true ; and so must i when the minister either prayeth freely , or in a stinted form of his own . you must joyn in that or none at all for that time . i told him of old mr. fen , ( a zealous non-conformist at coventry ) that would say amen loud to every prayer of the liturgy , save that for the bishops : did he not use as much liberty here as he could have done at free prayer ? . and for fore knowledge , he passeth by all the answer i oft gave to that objection , and singeth over the same song again . fore-knowing what will be said , doth more enable me to know what clause to forbear my consent to , than in sudden prayer not foreknown . and what if by his constant custome i foreknow , that iohn simpson , randal , iohn goodwin , saltmarsh , dr. crisp , canne , iohnson , blackwood , or any other tolerable opinionist , will put his opinion into his prayers ? doth not that make them in this all one with an imposed prayer , as to fore-knowledge ? and when i fore-know that the matter of the liturgy ( used on the lords dayes by the minister and people ) is sound , this fore-knowledge maketh it not evil in the use . sect. . when i gave him no less than twenty queries containing plain evictions of the falseness of his doctrine about the scriptures , his answer is , that he will answer them , when i have satisfied him that i sinned not greatly in raising such mists and doubts : and when i give him security that i will not ask him as many more . reader , is not this man an easie disputant ; did you ever know any that answered all with less ado , than so silly a reason , why he should not answer it ? sect. . he concludeth , by telling us , that he [ is ( to say no more ) your best , your equal ] i know what he meaneth , though not what he saith : and really it was but need that he should tell the world how good or worthy a man he is , or else a sober person that had but read one of his three libels , would hardly have believed it . sect. . having ended the second time , he begins again with a postscript , to tell us his reasons for his refusing the oath of allegiance , which he is imprisoned for . but i have no mind to meddle with him where i have no call . and shall only say , that had it been more , even the oath of supremacy it self , if he will regard either non-conformist , independents or anabaptist , mr. bradshaw , mr. nie and mr. tombes have each written enough to teach him better to understand that english. chap. iv. an admonition to that part of the church which is inclined to mr. bagshaw's errours . sect. . vvere it not my present duty to tell the church , i should take it to be as inconvenient as unpleasing , to open mr. bagshaw's sins . but as christ did it by the pharisees , yea , and peter himself ; and as paul in his epistles , did it by many ; so i think it is now become my duty , though he and his believers be displeased by it . i shall but desire the impartial sober readers , that have perused his writings and mine to judge . . whether so great ignorance as he discovereth in himself , be not scandalous in a preacher of the gospel . . whether such dangerous errours in doctrine , against the very foundations of our faith , with many other proved against him , make him not an unsafe guid for souls ? and give not incomparably greater occasion for renouncing him as an heretick , to such as are apt to take such occasion , than most called hereticks in the ancient churches gave . . whether it be not rare among the worst of men , to meet with so many evidences of insolent pride , above the common measure of proud men , as his three libels do contain . . whether it be not a hard matter to find among the worst of men on earth , two libels so small , containing above fourscore visible vntruths in matter of fact ; and a third to follow them , substantially constituted of the like vntruths ; scarce now to be numbred , any more than drops that are aggregate in a pond . . whether it be not rare to meet with more malicious contrived snares , to make up his ends upon the person , instead of defending of his cause . . whether ever you saw a controversie so managed by any sort of men , of what heresie soever , that said so little for their cause as he hath done for his love-killing principles . i confess i remember not one , no not excepting the very quakers . read over several debates , and see whether ever a cause so hotly contended for , had so little said for it ? . whether ever you saw books so answered as mine are by him ? in all his three libels , not medling at all with any considerable part of my books , as to any answer ; but silently passing them over , as if he had never read them . and yet going on to repeat the same things , which i had confuted ? . whether his calumny , or false accusations of me , and of calvin , perkins , hildersham , preston , &c. be not an unchristian act ? . whether it be not rare among the worst to find such footsteps of great impenitence , as he giveth in so silent a passing over his guilt of the fore-mentioned fourscore vntruths , without any considerable vindication : and after admonition , adding so many worse ? . whether it be not rare to meet with so much audacious impudence in sinning ? . whether the slandring of so many millions , yea , almost all christs churches on earth , as differ from him in point of forms , &c. as guilty of idolatry , be not a most heinous sin against christ and them , as representing them as odious in the world ? . and is it not a sin to draw so many poor souls as will beieve him , so far towards the hatred of christs churches , and ●om communion with them , and to confine all their communion 〈◊〉 so narrow a compass ? . whether fathering all this on god and religion , make ●●t the sin to be yet greater ? . whether , according to his power , he shew not as cru●● and bloudy , and silencing a disposition , as any of those that 〈◊〉 he accused of it . . whether he do not injuriously , to labour by his insi●tions , to bring many honest well-meaning christians , 〈◊〉 into the same guilt with himself , or into the shame●● reputation of it ? insomuch that ●lready the common 〈◊〉 dishonoureth many of the semi-separatists , saying , that they 〈◊〉 rejoyce at his writings , and so hate my treatise against church-dividing principles , as that for the sake of it , they will read no other of my books : ( and if that hurt them no more than me , the matter is but small . ) sect. . and when you have well considered of these things , i shall next desire you to consider , whether this man hath not brought you as great a care or caution against unlawful separations and divisions , as most men ever did in the world ? for . here you see how much you must bear with , unless you will separate from your own leaders : deal but impartially : is there one parish minister , yea , or one parish church member of many , that was ever convict of so much sin , as mr. bagshaw hath published , and silently , but impertinently lyeth down under ? is there many of them that ever defended half so much sin so obstinately , without confession , and yet so impotently without sence ? separate from no ministers or people that are not proved as guilty as this man , and i will never more write against your separation . . and now the world and posterity shall see in this mans writings , how the cause of unlawful separation was defended in this age . i openly profess , that this is a great reason that drew me to defend my cure of church divisions , by three following defences ; that posterity may see what interest and passion will not now suffer some to see . i look to the times to come . and if there be any wiser men among them , that can say more for the separating-cause , they are best set to it ; for if they leave it on such hands as mr. bagshaws , it is easie to foresee that it will be shamed for ever . yet do i solemnly profess that to my utmost remembrance , i never in my life did venture upon , or manage one dispute by word or writing , through a confidence in my own ability to make good what i undertook , but in a confidence of the goodness of my cause , and of the great advantage which the evidence of plain truth doth give to any man of good reason to defend it , even against the cunningest sophister that shall oppose it . sect. . and now i shall add my admonition to you , as not being quite ignorant of satans wiles , to tell you what a snare is laid for you all in mr. bagshaw's writings ; and as one that hath no interest , but christs and the churches to move him to it , to tell you how great the danger is , if you swallow the bait . . if he prevail with you , he will draw you into the guilt of all those sins of his own fore-mentioned , by your approbation & consent . and how great an addition will that be to your load ? . it would draw you to the entertainment of all those love-killing , malignant , and dividing principles , which i cast down , and he sets up . and you little know what an evil it is , to have an understanding so blinded , and a heart so defiled . . by this means that true universal love to godly men and christians as such will be destroyed : and when you should bear gods image , who is love it self ; you will be made like satan , the enemy of god and love : and instead of loving your neighbour as your self , you will take your neighbours , yea , christs members , for your enemies . . and as love is the fulfilling of the law , so your death of love will be the death of all your true obedience , and lead you to the breach of every law. you will deny all the acts of love in word or deed to others that you owe them to ; you will censure , you will backbite freely , you will receive false reports , and vend them again to others . and christ may say to you , inasmuch as you did it not to one of the least ( mark the least ) of these my brethren , you did it not to me . . you will be tempted into treason against christ , under pretence of piety , denying his interest in almost all his churches in the world ; even as if you should say , that the king is king of one or two towns only in all his kingdoms , on pretence that all the rest are not good enough to be his subjects . i profess openly , that nothing in the world more moveth me to do what i do , than this ; that there is much within me that will not suffer me without abhorrence , to think of either unchurching all churches in the world , that use a set liturgy ( yea that use one worse than ours ) or yet to hold that they should all be separated from . and had i ever vowed and covenanted to do this ( as i did not ) it had been a sinful vow . . and moreover , it will possess you with a degenerate and false kind of religion , consisting in sidings , and partial opinions , and obeying your selves instead of god. . and it will make you satans instruments to disturb all churches that you joyn with , if you do not want occasion and temptation . for the principles which i wrote against will let no church be quiet where they prevail : and a kingdom or house divided cannot stand . . you will be drawn from true spiritual worshipping of god ; and your worship and church-communion will be corrupted : instead of holy and heavenly sermons , prayers , praises , &c. you will be infected with a contending and envying passion , and puffed up with the conceit of your own judgments , and grow zealous for your personal opinions , and your parties , and turn your preaching and praying into a strain that savoureth of this disease , and defile them with unsounder passages for your errours or divided interests , than any can be found in the common prayers which you shun . . and if you be thus overcome , it will heinously aggravate your sin , that you will do all this as a part of your religion , and so will father it all on god , as if such doing pleased him , and proceeded from his spirit , and were commanded by his word . and as matth. . it is made the unpardonable sin to blaspheme the holy ghost , by ascribing his miracles to satan , so though it be pardonable , you should easily see that it cannot be small , to say that those things which are pleasing to the devil , and proceed from his will , and malicious suggestions , are pleasing to god , and proceed from his spirit and word . . by these means satan would make your churches to do his work against the lord whom they profess to worship , and and to be the very nests where pride and ignorance shall breed their like , and shall cherish sinful love killing principles and passions , and animosities against your brethren : and so your assemblies will be acted too much by his suggestions , and become his work-houses , while you think that they are serving god ; and mens wisdom will be earthly ▪ sensual , and diabolical , when they verily think it is from above , iam. , , . . thus he would fain bring an odium upon your selves , and cause you to go under such a character as the munster anabaptists , and the familists , quakers , and such others do : that men may say of you , that while you take on you to be stricter than others , it is but in abhorring other mens prayers , and extolling your own ; and that sin is no sin when you find it in your own party , or your selves . and that lyars , and most impudent calumniators and proud revilers , &c. go among your selves for godly persons , while the uprightest men that use the common prayer , do go for idolaters and ungodly . and if satan can but get such an odious character fastened on you , what mischievous advantage will he make of it ? . for then next he will hope to bring all the non-conformists ( or the greater part while a few only are excepted ) under the same character for your sakes : that they may be all thought to be men of irrational , uncharitable , and unpeaceable principles and spirits ; whose religion consisteth but in fanaticisme , and self-conceit , and foolish condemning the things which they understand not , because their party hath done so before them . and if satan can thus far obtain his ends , he hath laid the eggs of a world of farther sin and sufferings . . then all that are against them will be exceedingly confirmed in all those things and wayes , which i need not name unto you , and for which it is that you separate from them : and will think that your condemnation of them is but a commendation . . yea , ministers of loose and vicious lives will be hardened by you against repentance , and will think that they are better than you , and that though they sometimes are drunk , or idle , yet they are pardoned , because you that own such greater sins , do pass for godly , and because chiefly such as you condemn them . . yea , ( which will be a doleful mischief ) you will afford matter for every carnal preacher to make a sermon of , against those that go for strict and godly , and to perswade the people that all that profess much strictness , are but such as you , and that hypocrisie is the cover for their sins , which are worse than other mens . thus , while the word puritan ( as fanatick now ) was first taken up to signifie an errour ( a conceit of self-perfection , &c. ) at last it grew that which mr. robert bolton hath so often told the world , a word of scorn in wicked mens mouths , against all that truly feared god. and thus while you fly from all the parish assemblies , as desiled , you will be the men that will make them far worse , when some pulpits will be made stages , on which the actors may set forth all those religious men , that in any thing dissent from them in a ridiculous and odious dress , to the derision and loathing of the auditors . . by which means thousands of ignorant people will be tempted into a contempt of piety it self , and their conversion wonderfully hindered : and prejudice will make them turn from that way with scorn and obloquy , which should save them . o how many thousands have in england f●●merly been hindred from true repentance , by hearing strict religious people both talk'd and preached against , as hypocrites , and a sort of proud self-opinioned men ! . and the common people will learn quickly to overgo the preachers , and will make the godly in streets and ale-house ; their common scorn : and satan will have almost as many preachers to make piety odious , and hinder mens repentance , as there be wicked men . as when the preacher by a puritan heretofore meant a non-conformist , the ignorant rabble expounded and applied it , of all that were not such as they . . and by this means the devil hopeth to disaffect and exasperate many learned men that differ from you , to turn the strength and reputation of their parts and learning , to make you contemptible and vile . bishop overall , whitgift , mountague , &c. were very learned men : but exasperation set their parts and pens in that military strain , as was not pleasing to their antagonists : as it did mr. hooker's and many more , who by love and meekness , and a peaceable familiarity ( without sin ) might have been disarmed . i need not go beyond sea , to tell you how the learned ios. scaliger was exasperated to revile the puritans by mr. lidiates opposition ( vid. praef. ad cam. isagog . ) nor to mention salmatius , grotius , or any others there ; nor to look back as far as erasmus , much less to many , ( too many ) of the ancient bishops and doctors of the church . . yea , while you fear persecution , you will take the readiest way in the world to bring it on your selves , and others for your sakes : for the consciences of rulers will ( perhaps ) little scruple the hurting of such men as are taken to be so bad : they being gods ministers to use the sword for a terrour to evil doers , and if you once pass for notorious evil doers , you will hardly scape . and it will be but a foolish fruitless course to do the evil your selves , and then lay the blame of all your sufferings on them that tell you of it , and that take it to be evil , and will not commend your sins as so many acts of piety : as if the assumed name of virtue would hide the odiousness of vice : for nature and scripture will help men to see your nakedness through so thin a vail , and god himself will not suffer sin to keep up its credit by usurped names . it is not silencing the reprovers that will do the work of any sinners . it must be the avoiding of the sin it self . . and if you take this sinful dividing course , you will make more papists , and such others as you your selves , most fly from and disclaim , than almost any other way could do . nothing that i know of in the world , doth so strongly tempt some sober consciencious men , to think poperty necessary for the concord of the churches , and a violent church government necessary to our peace , as the woful experience of the errours and schisms , the mad and manifold sects that arise among those that are most against them . thousands have been made papists in england , scotland , and ireland , within these twenty years , that have been driven from us by our shameful sects ; yea , many of the sectaries themselves , when they have run themselves through as many sects as they could try . i am perswaded that mr. bagshaws libels are as powerful writings to cross his own desires , and turn many from non-conformity , and others unto popery , as most that have been published in this age . multitudes that read them will say , here you see the spirit of non conformity ( though i have proved it a calumny : ) others will say , you see how mad men grow when they unite not with the cathalick church , and live not under a strict church government . . and by all this satan hopeth to turn the non-conformists sufferings to their shame : and to make the world believe that as this man suffereth for refusing the oath of allegiance , so do the rest for some self-conceits , and unwarrantable fancies of their own . . and he will put hard to bring church diseipline it self into disgrace and scorn , by you that most desire and plead for it . for men will say , these are they that cry out for discipline , and separate from our church because it wanteth or corrupteth it . when in their own churches and leaders , such crimes ( as bagshaws books contain ) are tolerable , as consistent with religious zeal , and perhaps is all ascribed unto godliness ? what more effectual way could be devised , to make church-discipline contemptible to the world ? . and all this will tend to disable the ministers of christ , both conformable and non-conformable , from doing any good , and winning any souls to true repentance . when the conformable preachers should do good , the people will be taught by you to shun them , or despise them as idolaters : when the non-conformists should do any good , they will be taught by your practice and other mens calumny , to turn away from them , as such as afore described . and then how much hath satan gained ? i know another sort of men are at least as deeply guilty of all these consequents , as you : but that is no excuse of yours . and though it must be that offence come , yet wo to them by whom it cometh . . and indeed it would be a heinous aggravation of your sin , if you should defie gods providence , and the large and lamentable experience of the mischiefs of love-killing dividing-principles and wayes . this spirit and way was of old blasted in england and holland ; it troubled new-england ; it injured the non conformists , and put them to write many books against it ( more than the conformists did . ) the books of mr. perry ( martin mar-prelate ) full of jears and scorn , were unsavoury to all sober men ; and his death the more dishonourable . scotland kept them out thence by discipline . in our late wars , martin-mar-priest ( overton , as was thought , with prince , lilburn , &c. ) quite exceeded martin-mar-prelate , and the ministers were more scorned than ever were the bishops : seekers , quakers , and ranters , have all been generated ( for the most part ) by the foresaid separating principles and spirit . i will tell you no more now , what effects it then had on the churches and kingdom , nor what it hath brought on themselves and us . but reason should tell it you ; and i will tell you , that now , even now , to run violently further into the same fire which first burnt up so much of our concord , peace , and glory , and turned us into ashes , and then burnt up the men that kindled it , and is not quenched to this day , nor like to be in haste ; i say to blow this fire still , and run into it , and back-bite even non-conformable ministers themselves , that would but disswade you , and desire you to quench it , will be an obdurateness so like to pharaoh's , as may be a doleful prognostick to the guilty , if not to all the land. . you little know what a pernicious design the devil hath upon you , in perswading you to desire and endeavour to pull down the interest of christ and religion , which is upheld in the parish churches of the land ; and to think that it is best to bring them as low in reality or reputation as you can , and to contract the religious interest all into private meetings : by which means , . the privacy shall keep it under obloquy , suspicion , and contempt : . and shall level the sound with all the rotten sects in their reputation : . and shall leave them no security in law for their continuance an hour : . and shall keep them still under the censures , discountenance and dangers of the law. . and young rash intemperate spirits among your selves , will be continual endangerers of your liberties . . or a malicious enemy may at any time put on the vizor of a friend , and come among you and act a furious part , to make you odious and overthrow you : . and few of the young , the ignorant or licentious sorts will be your auditors ; and how will the work of repentance then be carried on by you ? the most will go to the publick churches , when you have done the most against it you can . . and when the present generation of non-conformists are dead , do you think it likely that so many will survive them of their mind , as are sufficient without the publick assemblies to keep up the christian and protestant religion in the land ? you are ignorant if you think it probable . i know that god can do what he will ; but his promise is the measuring object of our faith : and i think he hath promised no such thing . and i have long feared lest twenty years wilful contentions , wantonness , &c. will not be punished with a short rebuke . if you know how great a number was silenced in king iames his time , and yet that in there were not found near half so many non conformable ministers as are counties in england , you may think it is possible it may be so again . and would you have but one minister in a county or two , to keep up all the interest of religion ? i am not without hope that god will make men so wise as to unite us , before such a day : but of that we have no certainty . . yea , could you wish at this day that the christian and protestant religion were kept up by none but the unconformable ministers in private ? no honest man can wish it , who considereth how many of the are dead already , and how few are left in most counties of the land , in comparison of the congregations that need instruction ? i know that it is commonly said , that god blesseth not their ministry to the conversion of any souls , and therefore it is as good be without the conformists . but this is foolishly spoken . for , . many of them are as wise and as good men as you . . you have no satisfactory account what hearts are secretly wrought on by their ministry . they come not all to you to be confessed . . and the worser sort of them are not worse than iudas , whom christ sent forth . . and there is much done to keep up the christian and protestant doctrine in soundness , against infidelity and popery , where few are brought to sound conversion . and so gods publick worship , and the hopes of our posterity are kept up . if any of you had rather that all turned open infidels or mah●metans , my soul shall not enter into your counsels . . and the publick churches will be kept up some or other . if you would have the protestant interest in them fall , the popery will find them as a house ready swept and garnished , and will make our latter end worse than our beginning : . and i am perswaded few can be so sottish as to be ignorant , that it greatly pleaseth the papists that you are forced into corners , and hold your exercises of religion by connivance , against law ; and much more you will gratifie and rejoyce them , if you could help them to get down all the protestant interest in the parish churches . and do your leaders yet think that the papists are pleased with that which will promote the protestant cause ? . many a man as wise and good as you , whose judgment is non-conformable , who liveth where there are no other churches , would take it for an unspeakable loss to be deprived of the benefit of the parish churches . for all these reasons , though i desire reformation , and will never swear not to endeavour it in my place and calling ; yet i will do the best i can to get the best pastors into the parish churches , and to promote their reputation , and the labours of the ministers there , and bless god for what is yet there left us ; and yet will be one that shall mourn for the reproach of the solemn assemblies . . moreover , it is one of satans plots upon you , to prepare for the reproach of the non conformists , when greater necessity shall drive them to the parish assemblies and communion . do not you make any doubt of it , but that if the wrath or rigour of superiours should bring them to the same condition , as the old non-conformists were , the most of the present non-conformists would come to the parish churches , even in common prayer and sacraments as they did . and you are preparing reproach for them , that they may then be called changelings , who forsake their former principles and cause . . and verily you will keep up the papists hope , that by an universal toleration they may at last come in on equal terms with you , or by connivance be endured as much as you . and if they be equal in england with you , their transmarine advantages will make them more than equal , notwithstanding their disadvantages in their cause , and in their contrariety to kingly interest ( which henry fowlis hath in folio most fully and unanswerably laid open . ) . and though god in mercy hath at present given us a king that owneth the protestant cause , so resolvedly , as to make a law against any that shall report him inclined to popery , england hath no promise that it shall be so for ever : and if we should ever have a king more indifferent in his religion , do you know what a temptation it would be to him , to pull down the protestant religion , if he found it but in corners , under a connivance , and found it under the reproach of such crimes as b●gshaw's books contain ? it were the next way to procure the fatal word , down with them even to the ground ; though i know we have the greater security against this , because popery is so much against princes interest , and is the del●vering up the kingdome in part to a foreign power . . in a word , satan is playing by mr. bagshaw no lower a game , than by turning all the people from the parish assemblies , ( while there are not in england ( had they liberty 〈◊〉 ministers enow to supply the tenth part of the church●● ) to 〈◊〉 the generality of them to live like open atheists , that give god no publick worship at all ; and so to extinguish knowledge , christianity , and all religion , in most of the land. these things i see , and because i see them i do as i have done . . there is another reason that sticks much with me , as knowing what silly peevish souls are employed in against themselves , but i will add no more . brethren , i have discharged my conscience ; some will hear : i will bear the censures and obloquy of the rest . your sins are no more lovely to me , than the sins of other men ; nor no more merciful to england : we all suffer by and for such sins as i have reproved . i am one of the sufferers , and therefore should have leave to speak . i am long ago engaged in the cause of concord , love , and peace , and will not betray it for the shadow of purity , nor for the pleasing of any party whatsoever ; though no duty when such is to be omitted , nor any sin committed for peace . and to prevent the calumny of papists , and the mis-information of posterity , i add , that besides one hot-headed , honest young man ( mr. brown ) i hear of no non-conformable minister in england that openly owneth mr. bagshaw's 〈◊〉 , or secondeth him in his defence of the love killing principles of unlawful separation ; which , with the other evidences of quietness and patience in the private assemblies of these times , i take to be a marvellous thing , considering mens great and manifold temptations , which in time i hope god will abate . finis . from new-gate, a prisoners just cause pleaded against all his persecutors and let the witnesse of god in all consciences be judge in this matter. higgins, john, - . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; 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(eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) from new-gate, a prisoners just cause pleaded against all his persecutors and let the witnesse of god in all consciences be judge in this matter. higgins, john, - . p. printed for thomas simmons ..., [london : ] caption title. imprint from colophon. dated: of the month, . signed: john higgins. reproduction of original in huntington library. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng society of friends -- england. religious tolerance -- england. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - aptara keyed and coded from proquest page images - judith siefring sampled and proofread - judith siefring text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion from new-gate , a prisoners just cause pleaded , against all his persecutors . and let the witnesse of god in all consciences be judge in this matter . first , be it known unto you all , that i with many more of the people of god ( called quakers ) are not here upon the fact of felony , or murther , or whoredom , or drunkennesse , or for swearing , &c. but for the freedom of our consciences in denying to swear , according to christs doctrine : and now whether we are guilty or not guilty in this matter of the breach of a righteous law , and so deserving imprisonment or bonds , let the witnesse of god in the conscience be judge even in this matter . again , be it known unto you all , that i with many more of the people of god before mentioned , did never act , plot or agitate mischief against the king , or any other person within his dominion ; but we are peaceable men , and only desire and require our just freedom in the nation of our nativity , and also the exercise of our consciences towards god without molestation , and for to be preserved in peace , as we are peaceable subjects of the nation ; we in our several places pay custome and tribute to those in authority , that violence may not be done unto us ; yet , behold , what havock is made of us ? how are our goods spoiled , and our bodies imprisoned , and many sick and weak amongst us , and some families hereby exposed to poverty and want , if god take not a special care for them ? and now whether we or our persecutors are guilty of sin and wickedness against god ( in this matter ) let his witnesse in the conscience be judge even in this our cause . again , it is well known ( to almost all ) that the king before his coming into england , whilst he was yet at breda , that he gave forth a declaration there , promising free liberty to tender consciences in matters of religion , &c. provided they live peaceably in the kingdom , and this declaration is revived since his coming to england . but surely this is made of none effect , for we can plead guiltless , both before god , angels and men , that we have not forfeited our liberty therein mentioned , by any act , plot or agitation against the king , or any other person within the dominion of england ; yet nevertheless let the goals in england testifie what heaps are cast into them , and what havock is made of the innocent that make conscience of an oath . aud indeed it is true , besides all this ( before mentioned ) in the declaration promising liberty , that we had the word of a king , even from his own mouth , that we should not suffer for the exercise of our consciences in matters of religion , &c. but alas , alas , what doth this word avail us now , whilst the rude multitude are let loose upon us , yea insomuch that it may be truly said , if god were not on our side , they would swallow us up through their unsatiable desires . on this may be taken up as a lamentation over england at this day , that her rulers should make no more conscience of their promises and engagements , surely the guilt hereof cannot but lie heavy upon their consciences : and so let the witness of god in all consciences arise , and judge for us in this matter . and again consider , what a lingring imprisonment we are in , men and women cast in by heaps together , and through the straitness of room , they are much thronged together , both in this goal and others ; and sundry persons of us are weak and sickly , and by all outward appearance , if we are thus continued in such straitness , weaknesses and sickness may much more abound . and alas , what commiseration is there in the hearts of men in authority towards us ; do we not see mercy ( as it were ) turned into cruelty , even towards them that never deserved wrath at their hands ? and may we not hereby in truth conclude with the prophet of old , that the best of them is as a briar , and the most upright as a thorn hedge , mic. . . oh that the witness of god in our enemies and persecutors might be awakened to plead our innocent cause ! and this is that which we wait for , and suffer in patience to see , even the wicked smitten and wounded in their own hearts , that their wickedness , curelty and persecution may come to an end ; and truth , and equity and righteousness to be exalted , even to bear rule in the hearts of both kings and princes : then , o then rejoyce ye that love righteousnesse , when our lord and king reigns in righteousness in the kingdoms of men : oh blessed day shall that be called , when kings raign in the dominion of gods pure , righteous , holy spirit , then shall the meek of the earth inherit their freedom , and he that is a peaceable man shall have the praise , and the terrour shall be to the evil doer , which never shall be renowned . o sink down , sink down to gods witness in your own hearts , which will bring you into a sence of your own conditions , and also break the bonds of oppression . oh let not the cry of the oppressed be alwayes against you , for our god is mighty to save his people , and to destroy his enemies : but if he will not take vengeance , we shall freely forgive them ; for the lord our god hath given us of his spirit , to bear the contradiction of sinners , yea all their hard speeches and cruelties , and to suffer long in patience , until the measure of their iniquity be fully finished . and hereby know we , that we are of god , because he has given us of his spirit , which leads into unity and peace with himself , and one with another , out of the enmity , wrath , malice , hatred , revenge and persecution , which are all works of darkness , and brought forth by the children of darknesse ; for we know such as live in these things , are not led by christs spirit , & so are none of his , but against him in the enmity ; no true christians , but of antichrist and in the heathenish nature ; and these make war against the saints , who follow the lamb , who cannot lift up a carnal weapon against any man ; yet in the patient suffering under the persecutor shall our victory be obtained . but this may be a mystery to the children of darkness ; yet hear a little further , and i shall shew you , thus it is , the innocent suffering of gods people shall reach to the witnesse of god even in their persecutors ; and when they smite and wound the innocent , god shall smite and wound them , even the wicked in their own hearts ; and thus the lord will fight our battles , and work freedom and redemption to his people . therefore hear , hear and fear the living god of the whole earth , who is a spirit , and will judge the wicked in their own hearts ; yea , that is he that convinces the transgressor for the evil of his waies , and he it is that will make himself manifest to be a god near at hand , though men have been looking , and seeking of him as one afar off , yet our god is drawing near unto judgement , and the wicked shall know it , and feel the rod of his wrath , even in their own hearts ; this is the true and living god , whom the nations , in the ignorance of their minds make mention of , but are estranged from him ; and therefore doth iniquity , transgression , abomination , false worship , and idolatry abound in this generation ; and this hath grieved the spirit of the lord , who is a spirit , and will be worshipped , reverenced , served , and submitted unto in the spirit ; and people being out of this , all their outward observations and gatherings of assemblies , and talking of church and church-worship is a practice not acceptable with the lord , whilst man is found out of the subjection to him in the spirit ; therefore let none deceive themselves , the lord our god will indeed not be mocked ; but search your selves , and see whom you yeild subjection unto within , whether it be unto him that reprove for sin , or unto him that leads into sin ? and so he unto whom obedience is yeilded , the same is thy god ; and the day is come that people are to be tried and searched within , for the lord requires obedience there , even in the heart , that so man may be brought by the leading of his eternal power and spirit , out of the darknesse , out of the spiritual wickednesse , out of the house of bondage , yea , to be quickned and made alive unto god again , and here is the new man brought forth in gods image , to glorifie his maker , to live unto him and to serve him , yea to delight in the way of his commandements : but all that are out of this , are excluded out of the kingdom , all wicked and envious ones , persecuters and murderers , swearers and liars , and all that are in the transgression of the pure law written in the heart , these are shut out of gods kingdom , whatever their professions are , names , and words , and fair professions in outward appearance , cannot administer an entrance into the everlasting kingdom of our lord jesus christ . therefore now come to that which is more excellent and acceptable with god , even the light and spirit in the inward parts , thereby to be led out of sin , and transgression , and all the works of darknesse , out of wrath , malice , envy , persecution , and oppression ; for the light and spirit of the lord leads out of these things , into truth and righteousnesse , meeknesse and patience , into unity and peace with god , and one with another ; and these are the true christians that are thus led , and thus purified from uncleannesse , by the spirit and power of god in the inward parts ; and here 's the true worship of god in the spirit , and here have the children of light that walk in the light , fellowship with god , and one with another , in the light , and in the spirit ; and unto this must the gathering of the nations be , for all the nations of them that are saved , must walk in the light of the lord , which leads out of the separation , uncleannesse , and deeds of darknesse , and brings back again unto god , into the new and everlasting covenant ; and here is the new and living way , wherein acceptation with god is found . and now to conclude , this doth the lord require from you all , grieve not his spirit , provoke him not to wrath by persecuting of his servants , do them no harm ; they are as dear to him as the apple of his eye ; therefore oh take heed , let not the guilt of these things lie upon your consciences ; for we testifie of a truth , whether you will hear or forbear , that our god will visit for these things ; and behold , this is the crying sin that draws down gods judgement upon a people , as in the dayes of old , was it not so with the sodomites , who lived in pride and fulnesse of bread ? this god suffered long , but when they persecuted righteous lot , this brought his long-suffering to an end , and judgement from heaven was revealed upon them ; and this was an example for all that might follow after , living in their ungodly conversation that they might take warning not to persecute the righteous , least they perish by the same revelation of the righteous judgement of god. oh that men would consider of the things which belong unto their peace , before the decree of god be sealed against them unto eternal condemnation . and as for us , who are at this day a persecuted people ▪ for righteousnesse sake , for the name of christ , we have received the testimony of his eternal spirit , that wrath is not in him against us , though he may suffer the enemy to exercise cruelty upon us for a season , yet behold the lot of our inheritance shall not be alwaies here : therefore look above all these things , ye children of the light , ye sons of sions king , and daughters of new jerusalem , which shall be gloriously scituated , even upon the holy mountain , where none shall make afraid , and the glory of the lord shall be upon his people , and with his righteousnesse as with a garment shall they be covered . oh the infinitenesse of that invisible glory and eternal inheritance of the saints , which no mortal eye can behold ! yet great things hath god revealed unto us by his spirit , and he hath sealed us for his own ; therefore let all the saints rejoyce in heart , and blesse , and praise , and magnifie his name , who lives for ever . and what if the wicked will be wicked still , and the unrighteous hate to be reformed , let us leave them to the execution of the eternal judgement from the lord our god ; yet as we are moved in tender love to their souls , let us warn them to bring forth fruits meet for repentance ; and such as reject our message , which is the message of the lord , their bloud be upon their own heads ; and the day cometh , when this wofull lamentation shall be taken up by them , how have we hated instruction and despised the day of healing ? here followeth some examples of gods righteous judgement upon them that persecuted his people in former generations . cain that old persecutor about religion , was banished and termed a fugative and a vagabond in the earth , because of his persecuting of his brother about religion ; for cain envied and slew his brother , and wherefore was it ? because his brothers sacrifice was accepted , and his was not . and read the th chapter of genesis , and see and take notice what became of the persecuting sodomites , who beset lots house where the servants of god were , and demanded them out of his house , for to do unto them even as their wicked hearts were bent ; but the angel of god smote these persecutors with blindnesse , vers . . and moreover the angel said unto lot , take thy wife and thy daughters &c. and go forth of the city , for the wickednesse thereof is full , and it shall be destroyed : and lot did accordingly ; and gods judgement was revealed from heaven in flames of fire upon the sodomites , vers . , . and consider king pharaoh , that great persecutor and oppressor of gods people , how god plagued him , and his hosts of mighty men , because of their grievous oppression of the seed that god had chosen and blessed ; therefore was pharaoh and his mighty men plagued seven times , and at last an utter destruction came upon them , and pharaoh and his host with all the egyptians were drowned in the red sea , exod. . . and consider what became of envious haman , who prepared a gallows for mordecai , who was more righteous then himself . and haman incensed the king against mordecai and the jews , and gained an order to destroy the jews throughout all his dominion ; but the god of heaven gave not license to this , but confounded their conspiracies , and turned their determination backward ; and haman was hanged upon the gallows which he built for mordecai , esth . . . and thus gods judgement was revealed upon him , and them that persecuted those that were more righteous then themselves , read ester . . and . chapters . and in the daies of the prophets amongst the jews , god revealed his righteous judgement upon them that persecuted about religion , because they persecuted the prophets , and just men whom god sent unto them , therefore gods wrath was kindled against them , and the judgements written in the book came upon them ; destruction upon destruction , they were driven out of their country , and were captives in a strange land , their temple was destroyed , and desolation came upon their princely places , and a voice of woe , and misery , and great lamentation was heard in all their borders ; and this people god often warned by his prophets and servants ( as this generation hath been ) before his irrevocable decree came upon them to utter destruction . and take notice of gods judgement upon herod , for persecuting and murthering of the people of god , read acts . and it came to passe that the angel of god smote him , and he was eaten up of worms . this hapned unto a persecuting king , acts . . these examples of gods judgement may serve to warn this generation , least by their persecuting of gods people they draw down the same judgements upon them ; for this is that crying sin which fills up the measure of iniquity , and draws down gods righteous judgement upon a rebellious people . pharaoh had a day , and the jews of old had a day of visitation , before destruction came upon them ; but gods love was not regarded and his judgement broke forth upon them : and now england hath a day , or a little time before gods judgment be revealed unto destruction upon all his enemies , except they repent . the . of the . month , ● in newgate , which hath been often termed a den of thieves , but may be called now an house of prayer . john higgins . london , printed for thomas simmons , at the sign of the bull and mouth near aldersgate , . sions groans for her distressed, or sober endeavours to prevent innocent blood, and to stablish the nation in the best of settlements grounded upon scripture, reason, and authority. proving it the undoubted right of christian liberty under different perswasions, in matters spiritual, to have equal protection as to their civil peace. unto which is added the testimony of fifteen antients. humbly offered to the kings majesty, parliament and people, and left unto their serious view. by tho. monck, joseph wright, fran. stanley, &c. sions groans for her distressed. approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; 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(eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) sions groans for her distressed, or sober endeavours to prevent innocent blood, and to stablish the nation in the best of settlements grounded upon scripture, reason, and authority. proving it the undoubted right of christian liberty under different perswasions, in matters spiritual, to have equal protection as to their civil peace. unto which is added the testimony of fifteen antients. humbly offered to the kings majesty, parliament and people, and left unto their serious view. by tho. monck, joseph wright, fran. stanley, &c. sions groans for her distressed. monck, thomas. aut wright, joseph, - . aut stanley, fr. (francis), d. . aut hanson, geo. aut reynolds, william, - . aut jeffery, william, - . aut p. printed for the authors, and are to bee sold in london, and at westminster, london : . "to the reader" on verso of title page signed by all six authors, including three not listed on title page: geo. hanson, will. reynolds, will. jeffery. copy trimmed at head. reproduction of the original in the worcester college library, oxford university. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng catholic church -- controversial literature -- early works to . liberty of conscience -- early works to . religious tolerance -- early works to . - tcp assigned for keying and markup - spi global keyed and coded from proquest page images - john latta sampled and proofread - john latta text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion sions groans for her distressed , or sober endeavours to prevent innocent blood , and to stablish the nation in the best of settlements . grounded upon scripture , reason , and authority . proving it the undoubted right of christian liberty under different perswasions , in matters spiritual , to have equal protection as to their civil peace . unto which is added the testimony of fifteen antients . humbly offered to the kings majesty , parliament and people . and left unto their serious view . by tho. monck , ioseph wright , fran. stanley , &c. matth. . . therefore all things whatsoever you would that men should do to you , do you even so to them , for this is the law and the prophets . mat. . , , . the servants said unto him , wilt thou then that we go and gather them up ? but he said nay , lest while ye gather up the tares , ye root up also the wheat with them , let both grow together in the field ( the world ) until the harvest , which is the end of the world . act. . . and now i say unto you , refrain from these men , and let them alone , for if this counsel or work be of man , it will come to nought , but if it be of god , ye cannot overthrow it , lest haply ye be found to fight against god. london , printed for the authors , and are to bee sold in london , and at westminster . . to the reader . courteous reader , with burthened hearts as once the two disciples travelling unto emaus , spoke to christ a supposed stranger , so speak we unto thee , art thou a stranger in our island , and hast not known the things that have come to pass in these daies , while the father hath been divided against the son , and the son against the father , three against two , and two against three , even a mans foes they of his own houshold ; so great have been our divisions like reuben , that no sooner light hath been by gods grace manifested to the begetting children of the free-woman , but presently they are persecuted by the children of the bond-woman ; and how unpleasing this is to iesus christ , and how unlike his golden rule that saith , and all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you , do ye even so to them , for this is the law , and the prophets . we say how unpleasing this is to him , judge upon thy serious perusal of this following treatise , which we commend to thy perusal in thy most retired consideration , when thou canst read with thy thoughts , least cumbred with other business , our design in what we beg may be perused , is general good , in setting at liberty that which god made free , even the conscience . thou canst not bee ignorant of the great contriversie that now is on foot as to uniformity in worship , to impose by violence , where they cannot perswade , under seeming pretence of scripture warrant and antiquity , the contrary to which is asserted in the words of truth and soberness , by scripture , reason , and practice of the primitive times . and lest violence and oppressing of conscience , should run up to that height till it terminate in the blood of some who are dear , and their blood precious in the eyes of the god of all the earth , therefore have we committed this unto the view of all men as part of the work of our generation in singleness of heart , and remain lovers and prayers for all men that we might live a peaceable , and a quiet life in all godliness and honesty . farewel . tho. monck . ioseph wright . geo. hamon . fran. stanley . will. reynolds . will. ieffery . the eight day of the month , . sions groans for her distressed , or sober endeavours to prevent innocent blood , and stablish the nation in the best of settlements . as all the holy scriptures have been written afore-time for our learning and admonition , upon whom the ends of the world are come ; so that particular book of the revelation , is of such excellent worth , that blessed is he that readeth , and they that hear the words of this prophesie , and keep those things that are written therein , for the time is at hand . in which book , in no less than three several texts it is testified , that the nations of the world , and inhabiters of the earth , with their kings , would drink the wine of the fornication of that abominable harlot , that sitteth upon peoples , and multitudes , and nations and tongues , and by her sorceries deceiveth all nations until they become drunk , and altogether uncapable ( in that condition ) to receive the pure waters of life , tendred to them in the plain way of the gospel of our lord jesus . this with grief of heart we see too visible , for the doctrine and traditions of rome ( who is mystery babylon , and since her apostacy the mother of harlots , for the woman which thou sawest , is that great city which reigneth over the kings of the earth ) have so corrupted the earth , and clouded the understandings of the sons of men , that the great and most important truths of god cannot bee received or beleeved . the reason why the nations are so generally beguiled in the concernments of their souls , is because the greatest part being carnal and unregenerate persons ; they are naturally inclined to such wayes of worship , as are accompanied with external pomp and glory , and therefore the spirit of the lord testifies that the great harlot filleth her abominations , and filthy fornications in a golden cup , like the physitian that guilds his bitter pill , that his patient may the better swallow it . thus doth the romish church , and her followers , who to make their carnal ordinances finde the better reception , deliver them to the inhabitants of the earth by such as are honourable amongst men in worldly sanctuaries , most magnificently built and adorned , endowed with lordly revenues , accompanied with musick and voyces , and pontificial vestments , yea many superstitions and customes meerly earthly and sensual ( if not worse ) which we say so pleaseth the earthly and unregenerate man , that he is ready to say , this is the best religion , which is of most esteem in the nations , and accompanied with all earthly glory and delights , altogether forgetting , that strait is the gate , and narrow is the way that leads to life , and few there be that finde it , and that which is highly esteemed among men , is abomination in the sight of god. and if it had been the minde of the lord jesus , that the gospel should have been recommended unto the world , and accompanied with these ceremonies and formalities that are practised in the worship of the nations , or were used amongst the iews , it is very strange we should not have one word for it in all the scriptures of the new testament , when christ was as faithful over his house , as moses was over his , and is to be heard in all things as moses himself commanded ; and there will be little encouragement to touch with the gentile nations in their superstitious ceremonies , when it shall be considered , that the rites and ceremonies of the mosaical law being once the appointments of god , did far exceed in glory what the shallow inventions of the romish , or any of the national churches are able to produce , yet wholly taken away ; which the author to the hebrews notably proves , saying , then verily the first covenant had also ordinances of divine service , and a worldly sanctuary , for there was a tabernacle made , the first wherein was the candlestick and the table , and the shew-bread which 〈◊〉 called the sanctuary , and after the second vail the tabernacle which is called the holiest of all . they had also their high-priest , and offerings , and linnen ornaments belonging to this covenant ; but saith our author , if that first covenant had been faultless , then no place had been sought for the second , and he taketh away the first , that he might establish the second . and now under the second covenant , which is the gospel , the romish bishop , or any man on earth , cannot be our high-priest , for we have such an high-priest who is set on the right hand of the throne of the majesty in the heavens , a minister of the sanctuary , and of the tabernacle which the lord pitcheth , and not man. and under this second covenant , god hath not promised his presence to any temple built of wood and stone , as of old , for now the most high dwelleth not in temples made with hands , as the superstitious clergy would perswade us , but where two or three are gathered together in the name of christ , there is he in the midst of them , although it be in a house , by a rivers side , on a mountain , or in a wilderness , such little respect hath he to place . as little respect hath god to persons , because of any honour or esteem they may have in the world , either for birth or natural endowments , but such as usually are foolish , weak , and base in the eyes of the world , doth he make use of in the work of the gospel , that so the learned doctors and masters of arts may not have wherewithall to boast . which despised way of the gospel we well know becomes a great stumbling block to the gentile nations , as in the first delivery of it it did unto the iews , who would not receive the lord of life , nor his doctrine , because not accompanied with that earthly glory which their corrupt hearts affected , and rather would retain that exploded dispensation of the law which god had departed from , than they would receive the glorious gospel by those hands the wisdome of god thought fit to tender it , for which obstinacy , as the apostle paul saith , the wrath of god is come upon them to the uttermost , even to the laying waste their temple and cities , the great slaughter of their persons , and captivating their posterity as at this day . let therefore the gentile nations fear , but more especially this nation , for some such spirit seems to appear amongst those that would retain their empty and dead forms of worship , which god hath shewed his displeasure against , and have no footing in the whole book of god , rather than they will receive the pure way of god , without the mixture of humane inventions and traditions . but the bare rejection of truth , and imbracing of error is not all the evil , that the nations generally are ingaged in by the church of rome , and her followers ; but for to compleat and fill up the measure of their iniquities , like nebuchadnezzar , nothing less must be inflicted on the servants of the most high god , that cannot bow down to the golden image of their inventions , than the fiery furnace of persecution , many times unto death it self . and this the people of the lord must endure , it being as certain their portion to be persecuted , as it is the practice of the false church to persecute , who build their superstructures of will-worship , on no other foundations but violence and cruelty ; else what mean these imprisonments , banishments , wars and massacres , which have been made in europe for religion ; what troubles and desolations in germany , civil commotions in france , cruelties exercised in the netherlands by that darling of the romish church , the duke of alva , & others ? what m●ssacres in france , piedmont , and ireland , to carry on the business of religion , for the satisfaction of a blood-thirsty and insatiable clergy , when the disciples of the lord jesus were to use no other violence against those that rejected them , than to shake the dust from their feet , which should be a witness against them at the tribunal of jesus , not cesars ? yea this popish principle of propagating religion by the sword , hath reached the poor americans , many hundred thousands of them having been destroyed , because they would not be proselites , no other cause being to be given ; for it cannot be supposed , those remote and simple people had so much as known the spaniard , much less done any injury unto him ; our own nation hath also felt the rage of this fury , both before , and in the reign of queen mary , and the wise may judge whether the bishops endeavours to impose their liturgy in scotland , with their cruelties in england , did not contribute much to our late unhappy troubles . but certainly if the romish and national clergy were guided by the spirit of god , the authority of scripture , or force of argument to support their forms of worship , they would not then impose them by external force , when by such proceedings they render themselves altogether unlike the lord jesus the prince of peace , who came not to destroy mens lives , but to save them . but on the contrary it will evince to all that have their eyes open , how like they are to that woman which is drunken with the blood of the saints , and with the blood of the martyrs of jesus , in whom will be found the blood of prophets , and of saints , and of all that were slain on the earth . although as our lord and master hath foretold , in killing others , she may think she doth god service . lest therefore those unchristian principles of persecution for conscience , which troubleth the world , should take root in this nation , to the stirring up mens mindes to shed the blood of the innocent , the guilt whereof is able to sinke the most flourishing kingdomes into an ocean of misery and calamity , we have here following written some arguments ( which we humbly offer to all men ) to prove , how contrary to the gospel of our lord jesus , and good reason it is for any magistrate by outward force to impose any thing in the worship of god , on the consciences of those whom they govern , but that liberty ought to be given to all such as disturb not the civil peace , though of different perswasions in religous matters . in which discourse we neither desire nor design , to diminish any of that power which god hath given to the kings majesty that now reigneth , whom we own to be chief magistrate and governour of these nations , over all persons as well ecclesiastical as temporal , and to all his commands , that do not oppose the scriptures of 〈…〉 we yeeld active obedience not only for wrath but also 〈◊〉 conscience sake , and if any thing otherwise shall be required , we shall be passive , and suffer what may be inflicted on us for our consciences ; for what ever hath been suggested by evil men , yet that magistracy and government is an ordinance of god , hath been frequently asserted in our discourses and writings , and is by us beleeved , as fully as the apostle paul in the of the romans hath taught : and all that we desire , which is dearer to us than our lives , is that our spirits and consciences may bee left free to serve the eternal god , which ought to be granted us , seeing as the same apostle saith in these cases , we shall every one of us give an account of himself to god. but to our arguments , the first of which shall be that which some of us made use of to the kings majesty from maidstone , which we have not yet seen weakned . let it therefore be considered , if any magistrate under heaven in the dayes of the gospel , hath power by outward force to impose any thing in the worship and service of god on the conscience , it is given him as he is a magistrate only , or as a christian so considered , but that no such power is given by god to any magistrate , appears , because if magistrates as such , have such an authority , then all magistrates in all nations have the same power ; then if we lived in turky , must we receive the alchoran , and be worshippers of mahomet ; if in spain , be papists , in england , sometimes papists as in henry the eighths ●ayes , protestants in edward the sixths , papists again in queen maries , and protestants again in queen elizabeths , and so for ever as the authority changes religion , wee must do the same , but god forbid , for nothing is more absurd . seeing in the dayes of the gospel , the lord jesus is that great prophet , which as moses said is to be heard in all things , and as himself testifieth , hath all power in heaven and earth given unto him ; then if magistrates have power to impose any thing by outward force on the conscience , it must be committed unto them from the lord jesus , and written in the scriptures of the new testament , or else how doth it appear , but the whole stream of the new testament scriptures run clear in another channel , and there is no colour for any such supposition , as farther appears . because the apostles themselves ( that gave forth those commands which are written in scripture to be obedient to magistrates ) refused to be obedient to their rulers ; when they were commanded to forbear , that which they judged part of the worship of god , and said , whether it be right in the sight of god , to hearken unto you more than unto god , judge yee . all the scriptures of the new testament , that enjoyn obedience unto magistrates , were written when the romans had the empire of the world , whose emperours were for the most part ( if not all ) heathenish idolators , for the first three hundred years until constantines time , it therefore cannot be supposed , that any of those texts of scripture that call for obedience to magistrates , intend an obedience in matters of faith , for then the christians that lived under those emperours , must needs have denied christ , and worshipped the roman gods , as some of the emperours commanded . if magistrates as such , have power from god in the dayes of the gospel , to command in spiritual matters , and to punish those that obey not , then must christians surely be actually obedient , not only for wrath , but also for conscience sake , because else they should resist the ordinance of god ; but if this were true , the way to heaven would be so far from being strait and narrow , that any might be a disciple of christ without taking up the cross and following him ; yea all sufferings and persecutions should wholly be at an end , and they that undergo them should utterly be condemned ( for it is not to be supposed there could be persecutions , if all the commands of the magistrate in spiritual causes were actually to be obeyed ) it therefore reasonably follows , that no magistrate as such , hath power from god to compel in spiritual causes , but on the contrary for saints to endure persecutions and sufferings rather than actually obey , is abundantly by the lord foretold , rewarded and justified , as by the scriptures of the new testament appears . bu● if it be objected , that neither the magistrate is to command , nor the subjects actually to obey any thing but what is according to the minde of god. it is answered , that all magistrates suppose what ever they impose to be so ; but the question is , who is to determine , for if the magistrate , or any other man , or men , have power from god to judge and determine what is lawful for men to obey , then no room is left for them to dispute the lawfulness of any of his commands , it being their duty to obey what ever is commanded , and so as it hath been said before , the cross of christ ceases ; but if every one shall give account for himself to god , then it reasonably follows that every man judge for himself in matters spiritual , and therefore for the magistrate to compel , cannot be warrantable by scripture or reason . again , that the power to judge and determine in spiritual matters , is not in a magistrate as such , gallio the roman deputy of achaia , well understood , when the iews made insurrection with one accord against paul , and brought him to the judgement seat , saying , this fellow perswadeth men to worship god contrary to the law ( which almost ever since hath been the great cry by all sorts of the national clergy , whose turns it hath been to have the magistrate on their sides , against all others that have differed from them ) but gallio said , if it were a matter of wrong , or wicked lewdness , o ye iews , reason would that i should bear with you , but if it be a question of words , and names , and of your law , look yee to it , for i will be no judge of such matters : and he drave them from the iudgement seat . which worthy example , if magistrates would be perswaded to follow , by judging and punishing onely civil injuries and wrongs , and leaving spiritual differences to bee decided and judged , and punished by jesus christ according to the gospel , they then would finde themselves and governments quickly free from many inconveniences that now they are involved in , about deciding religious controversies , with external force and power . and now that no magistrate , although a christian , hath power to be a lord over anothers faith , or by outward force to impose any thing in the worship of god , is also very clear . because the lord jesus himself , would never by any outward force compel men to receive him or his doctrine , for when his disciples supposing they might use violence ( as under the law ) would have commanded fire to come down from heaven ( as elias did ) to consume them that would not receive him , christ turned and rebuked them , saying , ye know not what spirit ye are of , for the son of man is not come to destroy mens lives , but to save them ; and most remarkable doth it appear , that it is not the intent of the lord jesus , that judgement should be executed on those that reject his words to the punishing them in their bodies and estates in this life ( as under the law ) from his own sayings , written iohn . , . which speak thus , if any man hear my words , and beleeve not , i judge him not , for i came not to judge the world , but to save the world , and he that rejecteth me , and receiveth not my words , hath one that judgeth him , the word that i have spoken , the same shall judge him at the last day . and the apostles also were so far from propagating the gospel by outward violence and force , that all their proceedings were by intreaty and perswasion , and in case of resistance to shake the dust from their feet as a witness against their opposers ; nor will it avail to say , because the magistrate exercises authority on civil and temporal things , which the lord christ would not , that therefore in spiritual things they may do the same ; unless it may be supposed the magistrates right to have supremacy over the world to come , in all heavenly and eternal things , because god hath given him power over the world that now is in earthly and temporal things , which may be conjectured upon as good ground from what is written , as that a magistrate under the gospel-dispensation , hath more power in spiritual causes , than the lord christ , or his apostles would exercise , especially seeing there is not the least warrant for any such power from christ or the apostles , from any thing that is written in the scriptures of the new testament , and to the law , and to the testimony , if they speak not according to this word , it is because there is no light in them . if any men , as christians , under heaven have had any such power in the dayes of the gospel , the apostles and elders in the primitive times must needs have had it ; but this they utterly disclaimed , as paul in the cor. . . not for that we have dominion over your faith , but are helpers of your joy , for by faith yee stand : yea the lord jesus when they strove for domination forbids it , saying , yee know that the princes of the gentiles exercise dominion over them , and they that are great do exercise authority upon them , but it shall not bee so amongst you ; even so saith peter speaking to the elders , feed the flock of god which is amongst you , taking the oversight thereof not by constraint , but willingly , not for filthy lucre , but of a ready minde , neither as being lords over gods heritage , but being examples to the flocke : why therefore the christian religion should bee built and supported by violence and cruelty , when the foundation was laid , and the work carried on all the apostles dayes , and some hundreds of years after , by a quite contrary meanes , is a question would bee resolved by those , whose strongest arguments , for the support of their religion , is take him iaylor : for such is the difference between the way which the apostles and primitive saints took in carrying on the worke of the gospel , and approving themselves to bee the ministers of god , and the way now used by the national clergy , that nothing is more unlike ; they being ambassadours for the prince of peace ▪ did in his stead beseech and pray the disobedient to bee reconciled to god , never stirring up the nations to ruine , and destroy by external violence those that opposed them in their ministry ; but as the apostle paul saith , being reviled , we bless , being persecuted , wee suffer it , being defamed , wee intreat , giving no offence in any thing , that the ministery bee not blamed , but in all things approving our selves as the ministers of god , in much patience , in afflictions , in necessities , in distresses , in stripes , in imprisonments , in tumults , in labours , in watchings , in fastings , by pureness , by knowledge , by long-suffering , by kindness , by the holy ghost , by love unfeigned , &c. o yee rulers of the world , and inhabitants of the earth , this was the way the lord of all things , with his disciples and followers took , to plant and establish the doctrine of the gospel in the hearts and affections of the sons of men . be yee not therefore unlike those whom you say you follow , by imposing your doctrines and traditions by the violence of penal laws and edicts , to the imprisoning , banishing , and spoyling the goods of the conscientious , causing them ( as the saints of old ) to bee destitute , afflicted , and tormented , although for their innocency and uprightness , the world is not worthy of them . it is very plaine that the lord jesus himselfe , in his parable of the tares , and wheat , forbids any outward force or violence , to bee exercised upon false worshippers and hereticks as such , for by the tares , which he forbids the pulling up cannot be intended the transgressors of the second table , such as theeves , murderers , or any that should doe that civil injury or wrong unto another ; which hee would not have done unto himselfe , for all confesse with one consent , that the magistrates authority reaches such , neither can it bee intended that the children of the wicked one in any sense that visibly appear to be so , should bee tolerated in the church , for that destroyes the power of excommunication : that which unavoidably then follows , is , that although men are tares , or the chi●dren of the wicked one , by erring in the worship of god , yet should they not bee plucked up , but tolerated in the field of the world , untill the harvest shall come at the end of this world , when the angels who are to bee the reapers ( and infallibly can distinguish between the tares and the wheat , which no magistrate now can ) shall gather the tares in bundles , and cast them into a furnace of fire ; there shall bee wayling , and gnashing of teeth . which scripture so eminently concludes for a toleration , that the greatest enemies to true liberty , have been at a great losse , when they have endeavoured to make it speak some other thing , as that expositor is , who sayes , it seems to him not to note the duty of the civil magistrate , but the event of gods providence , that god would permit the co-habitation of the wicked in the world with the just ; not that magistrates or ministers should permit them , and not by civill punishment , or ecclesiastical , remove them out of the church , or the world. but if men did not fight against truth , they would not so eminently contradict their own sayings , for who can beleeve that it should bee the minde of god , to permit the co-habitation of the wicked in the world with the just , as aforesaid , and yet the magistrate should not permit them , but remove them by civill punishment out of the world. hath the magistrate power to remove those out of the world , that god would have permitted to live . how soon may a magistrate , if guided by such doctrine , bring the blood of the innocent upon himselfe and nation ? and innocent blood the lord will not pardon , king. . . it therefore highly concernes all magistrates , before they persecute any for matters of faith or worship , to see they have a better warrant for so doing , than the word of men , which will not secure them at that day when god shall judge the secrets of men , by jesus christ , according to the gospel , which will bee found to be the book that shall be opened , when the dead both small and great shall stand before god to be judged by what is written therein , according to their works ; as the lord jesus saith , the word that i have spoken , the same shall judge you at the last day ; and this is his word , to let both tares and wheat grow together in the field of the world until the harvest . it can in no wise be safe , for magistrates in the dayes of the gospel , to persecute and destroy those that are contrary minded in religious matters , because of their fallibility , and that is the very reason why the lord jesus , in the fore-mentioned parable , forbids gathering up the tares , lest the wheat be rooted up along with them . that magistrates may erre in spiritual and religious matters , woful experience hath taught the world in all ages , the lord of life himself was put to death , for supposed blasphemy and wickedness , and accused for being an enemy unto cesar , which great mistake was committed through ignorance , as peter saith , and now brethren , i not that through ignorance ye did it , as also did your rulers . and at this day , what mistakes are continued in magistrates about religion , some being calvinists as in holland , and geneva , more lutherans , but the greatest part papists , and each of these condemneth , and many times persecuteth the other for heresie or superstition , unavoydably therefore it follows , that some of these must erre , but we need not go far for the proof of this in one and the same person , who receives that at one time for truth , which at another time must be persecuted for error ; this appeared notably in king henry the eighth , who persecuted the protestants to death , and writes against luther , for which the pope gives him the title of defender of the faith , and yet a while after receives some of luthers doctrine , and rejects the supremacy and authority of the pope , and serves the papists as he did the protestants ; nor will magistrates be the more free from mistakes , by relying on the authority of synods , popes , or general councils , because such eminent contradictions , and oppositions have appeared amongst each of them , that nothing is more uncertain than their conclusions . as for general councils , whose authority is in the greatest estimation of the three , it is plain they are so far from being infallible , that their decrees have been not only directly opposite to plain texts of scripture , and the practice of the primitive church , but also against each other ; which appeared first in the council of constantine , the thirteenth session , where it was decreed that the lords supper should be given but in one kinde , when nothing is more plaine , than that the lord jesus instituted it , the apostle paul afterwards delivered it to the corinths , and the primitive church received it , with both the bread , and the cup. so for the council of trent , to decree that the service in the church should be performed in latine , how contrary is it to the doctrine of paul , who said in the church , he had rather speak five words with understanding , that he might teach others , than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue . so also have they clashed one with another , the council of trent allowing picturing of god the father , the councel of nice altogether disallowing of it , and in the great arrian controversie , which was no circumstantial business , how many councils and conventions , were both for , and against it . as little reliance can be put on any supposed infalibility the 〈◊〉 may have ; there having been two or three at one time , each rageing against the other , with their censures and decrees : and notorious it is , what descention there was amongst the popes , and cardinals about pope formosus , who being first bishop of pontiniake was degraded by pope iohn the th . and made to take an oath to lead a secular life al his daies , yet by pope martin that succeeded iohn , was formosus released from his oath , restored to his bishoprick , and afterwards came to be pope , & so continued . years , making several decrees ; but stephen the th . coming to the popedome , abrogates the decrees of formosus , takes up his body , cuts off two of his fingers , throws them into the river tiber , & then buries him in a laymans sepulchre : next to stephen , succeeded romanus , who on the other hand repeals the acts and decrees of his predecessor stephen against formosus , & pope iohn the th . in a synode at ravena , ratifies all the decrees and doings of formosus , yet after all this , comes pope sergins , digs up again formosus , cuts off his head , and more of his fingers , and throws his body into tiber , likewise deposed all such as had been consecrated by him ; al which schismes and discensions , makes it plain to the world , that there is nothing of infallibility in the popes . and for national conventions and synods , they are so far from any shew of infallibility , that the same complexion and temper the nation is of wherein they are called , and have their promotions , you shall be sure to find them of , because they have their dependency on the authority that calls them together . so that although the last national synod in this nation , would have established presbytery , because that then was most like to take , yet it is very questionable , if now a convention be called , whether it will be much talked of amongst them . then this must be concluded from all , that seeing magistrates themselves general councils , popes , or national synods may erre , in judging and determining the most weighty controversies in religion , there can therefore be no security for a magistrate that he doth well , in persecuting or putting to death the contrary minded , in religious matters , seeing thorow mistake he may as soon persecute , or put to death , the true followers of the lord jesus , or any other ; yea , in likelihood much sooner , because they in conscience towards god , cannot receive the inventions and traditions of men , in the worship of god , but must be a witness for the eternal god against them , for which they are accounted ( as the saints of old ) pestilent fellows , movers of sedition , turners of the world upside down , enemies to cesar , and upon this account persecuted , when the greatest part of men being unregenerate , and have no other spirit in them , but what is of this world ; there is therefore no reason why the world should persecute and hate his own . fifthly , for magistrates to inflict temporal punishments upon any of their subjects , for not conforming to their decrees , that enjoyn any spiritual worship or service , is undoubtedly a breach of that royal law , which sayes , that whatsoever ye would that men should do to you , do you even so to them , for this is the law and the prophets ; and is a sure and standing rule , by which all men , if they would deal ingeniously by themselves , might measure the justice of their proceedings towards others , for who , that was not a desperate enemy to himself , would put out another mans eye , if he were sure his own should be put out as soon as he had done , as he was to be served by the iudicial law , neither would those that are forward to persecute , be very zealous in their proceedings , if they were sure , that those whom they persecute , should have power on their sides , to meet the same measure unto them ; and this is worthy of observation , that this rule of doing as we would be done unto , can be received , and pleaded by all sorts of men , whilst they are under affliction and persecution , but who remembers it , when they have power to afflict and persecute others : the papists themselves , when out of power in this and other nations can plead against persecution for their conscience , as they did in the reign of queen elizabeth , procuring the letters of the emperour , and other princes , to interceede for some places to be allowed ▪ where they may worship by themselves ; but in this they desired more than themselves would allow to others , when in power , so many of the protestants , where the magistrate is different from them in religion , can be very well pleased with a tolleration and : martin luther in his sermon of the good shepheard , engl●shed by w. g. in the year . speaking of the kingdom of christ , saith it is not governed at all by any force or power , but by outward preaching alone , that is , by the gospel ; why therefore ●●nnot the protestants , who would seem to have an honourable esteem of this man , be of the same spirit , and the papists be as much for liberty in prosperity , as in adversity , seeing the lord jesus hath not directed at one time to the use of force and violence , in the work of the gospel , and at another time , if the civil sword be not to be procured , then to use arguments and perswations ; no , at all times the rule which his disciples must take notice of , sayes , whatsoever ye would that men should do to you , do you even so to them , for with what measure ye meet , it shall bemeasured to you again . and because mystery babylon , hath not regarded these sayings but exerciseth all manner of cruelties , and deaths upon such as cannot believe as she believes and practises , therefore god will find out a way to retaliate upon her , all the blood of his servants , and in the cup which she hath filled , shall it be filled to her double ; how much she hath glorified her self , and lived deliciously , so much torment and sorrow give her ; for she saith in her heart , i sit a queen , and am no widdow , and shall see no sorrow . therefore shall her plagues come in one day , death and mourning , and famine , and she shall be utterly burnt with fire , for strong is the lord god who judgeth her , and the kings of the earth , who have committed fornication , and lived deliciously with her , shall bewail and lament for her , and her merchants , which are the great men of the earth , who traffique with her in things costly , delicate and of esteem in the world , and inslaves the souls of men , or ( as by the margent it may be read ) bodies and souls of men these also shall mourn over her , for no man buyeth their merchandize any more , and thus the fierceness of gods wrath will over take her , to the sinking of her like a milstone into the bottome of the sea , because the great weight of innocent blood lyeth upon her , for in her will be found the blood of prophets and of saints , and all that were slain upon the earth ; he that therefore would not partake with her in any of her plagues , let him flee from her , and partake not with here in any of her sins ( one of the greatest , being the persecution of men for keeping a good conscience ) for except the great god should cease to be what he is , if men repent not of their deeds , there will be as certainly punishment , as there is sin , and it shall not be the arm of flesh , that wil be able to support this strumpet , although many kingdomes should ingage in her quarrell , 〈◊〉 shall the wisdome and prudence of great states men be able to keep of her judgements , for if men should cease to do any thing against her , yet god will make the very elements to fight against her , and will contend with her , by famine , and pestilence , yea and sword to , although she feares it not , for god will stire up the . kings to do his will upon her , and by his great works , & judgements , that he will manifest in the earth , will he gain himself a name , and great honour and glory even so amen . as it is no waies lawful from the word of god , for christian magistrates in the daies of the gospell , to destroy , and root out the contrary minded in religious matters ( although idolaters , ) so such proceedings may somtimes prove inconsistent , with the very being of nations , for suppose any nation were wholly heathenish idolators , and the word of god coming in amongst them , should convert , the cheife magistrate , and one twentieth part of the nation more ; must he then with that twentieth part , destroy all the other nineteen , if they will not be converted , but continue in their heathenish idolatry ? it cannot possibly be suposed to be warrantable : and this reason holds good likewise against the rooting up and destroying heriticks , out of the world , because if the church proceeds against any of her members to excomunication , the churches deportment towards him so cast out , is to be the same as towards a heathen , so saith christ himself , if he neglect to hear the church , let him be unto thee as an heathen man , and a publican , who for the aforesaid reason is not to be destroyed because he is so : and moreover seeing the lord who is aboundantly mercifull , many times give repentance not only to the unbeleeving idolater , but also to the excomunicated person , he therefore that destroyes the body of such a one , doth as much as in him lyeth destroy his soul also ; for the lord you see brings into his vineyard , some at the third hour , some at the sixth , some at the ninth , and others at the eleventh : he therefore that shall destroy any at the third , or sixth hour of the life , hinders his conversion that possiblely may be called at the ninth , or eleventh hour . and so may be charged with bringing eternall losse and dammage , to him whom he destroyed object . but whereas the example of the kings of israel and iuda , is made the greatest pillar to support the magistrates proceedings under the gospel , in persecuting , and punishing , the contrary minded in religious matters , or such as shall be judged guilty of blasphemy , or idolatry ; therefore the second cannon of the english church , tells us , whosoever shall affirme , that the kings majesty hath not the same authority in causes ecclesiasticall , that the godly kings had amongst the iews , shall be excomunicated : but if magistrates would deferre persecuting any man for religion , untill the clergy had proved this unto them , it would be happy for the most consciencious under them , and themselves too . answ. but in answer , we deny not , but the kings of the iews had power to punish idolatours , and blasphemers , and some other transgressors of the then law of god ; which power was given them of god , and written in plain precepts , in the mosaical law , but who tells them that magistrates under the gospel dispensation , hath such power ? hath the lord jesus said any such thing ? or if he have where is it written ? nay where is it written from the beginning of genesis , to the end of the revelations , that magistrates under the gospel , should have the same power in religious causes , as those under the law ? if the judiciall law be a rule , for magistrates under the gospel to walk by , then why must it be mangled in peeces , and just so much taken of it as suites their interest , and all the rest rejected ? is it left to magistrates now , or was it ever left to the jewish kings , to take what part of it they please to be a rule to them , and reject all the rest , and it is eminently remarkable , how this plea is by the clergy themselves that most contend for it , made together invalid , for by it they will stirre up the civill magistrate , to punish those that dissents from them about the doctrine and worship , under the notion of blasphemers or hereticks , and against such this law must be held authentick , but he that smiteth or curseth his father , or mother , or stealeth a man , or him that committeth adultery , or breaketh the sabboth ; who were all of them sure to be put to death by the same judiciall law , yet in these cases they will not tell the magistrate it is any rule , but is to be rejected , because here they cannot much make it reach their supposed hereticks , who they are more jealous of , then any of the aforementioned ●●fenders . but besides , it is observable , that the kings of the iews , all the time they kept to the law of god , had advantages to give righteous judgement in spiritual causes , ( which magistrates under the gospel have not ) for they had that standing oracle of god amongst them , the u●m and thumum , together with extraordinary prophets , which in all difficult cases they had recourse unto , and would infalliably direct them , to judge according to the mind of god , but when these kings became wicked , and lost the benefit of the abovesaid oracle , and extraordinary prophets , then although they had the written law amongst them ) did they run headlong into grosse mistakes , that the true prophets of the lord were sure to be persecuted , and those prophets which would prophesie smooth things unto them , were cherish●d , although many times by hearkening unto them , they lost their kingdomes , lives , and it is to be feared , souls and all ; how grosly did ahab mistake , when he accounted elijah the troubler of israel , and caused poor micaiah to be imprisoned , and fed with bread and water of affliction , because he would not help to deceive him , at his * . time serving prophets had done : so ieremiah ●●s accused for seeking the hurt of his nation , and not the welfare , and must be put in a miery dungeon , because he in plainness delivered the mind of the lord to the k●ng , his princes and people ; how therefore can the gentile rulers assure themselves , they do any better then these rulers did , if they shall persecute the contrary minded in religious matters , s●eing they have neither an infalliable oracle to inquire at , nor extraordinary prophet , nor yet such written precepts , as the iews under the mosaical law had that did not onely direct them what offenders should be punished , but also what the particular punishment to every several offence should be . furthermore , it is very plain , that the gospel which we live under , is clear another dispensation , far different in all its ordinances , and administration from the law ; under which the lord jesus is the only law-giver , who doth not ( as moses ) proceed against the transgressors of his precepts , by external force and power , to the destroying them in their bodies , and estates , in this life , but in long sufferings waits on men , not willing they should perish , but rather that they should repent and be saved . and when any continues in disobedience to the gospel , his punishment is eternal in the world to come ; therefore as the apostle paul saith , judge nothing before the time , until the lord come , who will bring to light hidden things of darknesse , and will make manifest the councels of the hearts , and then shall every man have praise of god ; the same apostle testifieth of himself , that he was a blasphemer and persecutor , tim. . . and if the mind of god had been , that he should have suffered death in that condition , how should he have had repentance given him , and been such a glorious instrument in the church , as afterwards he was . and it is too well known , that the iews are the great blasphemers against our lord jesus christ , that is on earth , yet it is not the mind of the lord , they should be destroyed from the face of the earth , for how then should the scriptures be fulfilled , wherein god hath promised to call them , and make them the most glorious nation on earth ? or how can they be converted , if they be not permitted where the gospel is preached ? we speak not this in favour of any blasphemy , for our souls abhor it , but because all men that have powers in their hands , might be as tender of t●● lives of men , as the most righteous and holy god is , who would have men be imitators of himself , in mercy and goodnesse towards others , and he maketh his sun to rise on the evil , and on the good , and sendeth rain on the just and unjust . if it shall still be objected , that it is inconsistent with the safety and well being of any nations , to allow or tollerate any more waies of worship then one : we answer , experience hath taught the contrary , to several countries of europe , as france , and the united provinces , and several countries of germany , besides those that say they are the servants of god , should conclude that to be most for the safety and well being of their countries , which is most agreeable to his heavenly will , declared in his word : it was the ruine of ieroboam , & almost all the kings of israel that succeeded him , that they would rather act by corrupt principles of state-policy , than by the word which god had spoken ; and although god had rent tribes from rehoboam , and given them to him , yet he wanted faith to believe his new kingdom could any waies be secured to him , or kept from going back to the linage of david , unless he devised some new way of worship , to keep the people in their own land , and for his so doing , he thought he had much reason of state ; for what prince now will conclude it good pollicy , to permit his people to go up yearly into his enemies chief city to worship , but will conclude it to be a notable way to alienate the affections of his subjects from him , to his great prejudice and detriment : thus ieroboam reasons as by his words appears , ( take them at length ) and ieroboam said in his heart , now shall the kingdom return to the house of david ; if this people go up to do sacrifice in the house of the lord at ierusalem , then shall the heart of this people turn again unto their lord , even unto rehoboam king of iuda , and they shall kill me , whereupon the king took councell , and made two calves of gold , and said to ●h●m , it is too much for you to go up to ierusalem ; behold thy god oh israel , which brought thee out of the land of egypt ? which pollicy of his procured this event , which god denounced against him , saying , i will bring evil upon the house of ieroboam , and will cut off from ieroboam , him that pisseth against the wall , and him that is shut up , and left in israel , and will take away the remnant of the house of ieroboam , as a man taketh away dung till it be all gone . and for the sin wherein he made israel to sin , is he branded to all posterity , but on the other hand had he permitted the people to go up to ierusalem to worship , and keep the appointments of god though seemingly against his present intrest , then had the promise of god been made good unto him , which the prophet ahijah declared long before he came to the kingdome , saying , and it shall be ( if thou wilt harken unto all that i command thee , and wilt walk in my waies , and do that is right in my sight ) to keep my statutes and commandements , as david my servant did , that i will be with thee and build the a sure house , as i built for david , and will give israel unto thee . which things were written for the example of such as should come after , be wise now therefore o ye kings , be instructed ye judges of the earth , serve the lord with fear , and rejoyce with trembling , kiss the son least he be angry , and ye perish from the way , when his wrath is kindled but a little , blessed are all they that put their trust in him . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e rev. . . chap. . . and . . chap. . chap. . . mat. . . luke . . heb. . , , . deut. , heb. . ● . chap. . . chap. . ● . act. ● . . cor. . , , , . thess. . . act. . . mat. . , . rev. . . chap. . . joh. . . see the confession of faith printed in march . and since reprinted , and presented to his majesty . rom. . . mat. . . let no man think of men above that which is written , cor. . acts . . . as dioclesian euseb. . book . . chap. luke . . rev . , . jam. . . act. . . tim. . . rom. . . josh. . . act. . , , , , . but in that he suffered so●thenes to be beaten , he did not well , it being a civil injury . luke . , , . mat. . . act. . . as the dividing inheritances , &c. isa. . . mat. . . pet. . , . cor. . . cor. . , cor. . from . ● . to the . heb. . , , . mat. . j. t. supplem . p. . l. . rom. . . rev. . . so many as have lived where the word of the gospel comes mat. . . act. . . in europe as ier. taylor now bishop of down in his liber . of proph. sect. . at large proves . mat. . , . cor. . , . cor. . . benedict the silvest . gregory . fo● acts and monuments , vol page . acts . , . chap. . . . mat. . . annales of eliz. written by camden pa●●●●k , page . as in france pag. . of his book . mat. . , . as at this day . rev. . , , , . vers . . . vers . . vers . . mat. . . mat , ●● . kings . chap. . . . * false prophets must eat bread at iezebels table , when micaiah must have bread and water of afflict . ier. . , , . as it hath been in our day . thes. . . pet. . . acts . . cor. . . king . . ● , . kings . . . chap. . . psal . . . . to the pope and all his magistrates and the protests here they and all christendom may see the moderation of the heathen emperours to the christians in the years before there was a pope, signified by their letters following in the behalf of the christians liberty which will rise up in judgment against the popes and their emperours and his magistrates and most of the protestants, as here you may see in the reading of their declarations and the straitnesse of the orders of those called christians now, and the largeness of the heathens then, as concerning liberty in the spirit to worship god : and also here you may see the heathen were more moderate to the christians then the christians, so called, are to one another : taken out of the ten persecutions. fox, george, - . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; 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(eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) to the pope and all his magistrates and the protests here they and all christendom may see the moderation of the heathen emperours to the christians in the years before there was a pope, signified by their letters following in the behalf of the christians liberty which will rise up in judgment against the popes and their emperours and his magistrates and most of the protestants, as here you may see in the reading of their declarations and the straitnesse of the orders of those called christians now, and the largeness of the heathens then, as concerning liberty in the spirit to worship god : and also here you may see the heathen were more moderate to the christians then the christians, so called, are to one another : taken out of the ten persecutions. fox, george, - . hadrian, emperor of rome, - . antoninus pius, emperor of rome, - . p. printed for thomas simmons, london : . at end: published by george fox. letters are attributed by fox to hadrian, antoninus pius, marcus aurelius, constantine, maximiam and sabinus. reproduction of original in the huntington library. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng freedom of religion -- history. religious tolerance. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - apex covantage keyed and coded from proquest page images - judith siefring sampled and proofread - judith siefring text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion to the pope and all his magistrates and the protestants , here they and all christendom may see the moderation of the heathen emperours to the christians in the years before there was a pope , signified by their letters following in the behalf of the christians liberty , which will rise up in judgement against the popes and their emperours , and his magistrates , and most of the protestants , as here you may see in the reading of their declarations , and the straitnesse of the orders of those called christians now , and the largenesse of the heathens then , as concerning liberty in the spirit to worship god , and also here you may see the heathen were more moderate to the christians , then the christians , so called , are one to another . taken out of the ten persecutions . london , printed for thomas simmons , at the sign of the bull and mouth near aldersgate , . the letter of adrian the emperor to minutius fundanus . i have received an epistle written unto me from serenus granius our right worthy and welbeloved whose office you do now execute ; therefore i think it not good to leave this matter without further advisement and circumspection to passe , least our subjects be molested , and malicious sycophants boldned and supported in their evil ; wherefore if the subjects of our provinces do bring forth any accusation before the judge against the christians , and can prove the thing they object against them , let them do the same and no more , and otherwise for the name onely , not to impeach them , nor to cry out against them ; for so , more convenient it is , that if any man will be an accuser , you to take the accusation quietly and judge upon the same ; therefore , if any shall accuse the christians , and complain of them as malefactors , doing contrary to the law , then give you judgment according to the quality of the crime ; but notwithstanding whosoever upon spight and maliciousnesse shall commence or cavil against them , see you correct and punish that man for his inordinate and malicious dealing . this was written above years before there was a pope , or universal bishop in rome . the epistle of antonius pius to the commons of asia . emperor and caesar , aurelius , antonius , augustus , arminius , pontifix maximus , tribune eleven times , consul thrice , unto the commons of asia , greeting , i am very certain that the gods have a care of this , that they which be such shall be known , and not lie hid , for they do punish them that will not worship them more than you , which so sore vex and trouble them , confirming thereby the opinion which they have conceived , and do conceive of you ; that is , to be wicked men , for this is their joy and desire , that when they are accused , rather they covet to dye for their god then to live , whereby they are victorers , and do overcome you , giving rather their lives then to be obedient to you , in doing that which you require of them ; and here it shall not be inconvenient to advertize you of the earthquakes which have and do happen among us , that when at the sight of them you tremble and are afraid , then confer your case with them , for they upon a sure confidence of their god , are bold and fearlesse , much more then you , who in all the time of this your ignorance , both do worship other gods , and neglect the religion of immortality , and such christians as worship him , them you do drive out and persecute them unto death ; of these and such like matters many presidents of our provinces did write to our father of famous memory heretofore , to whom he directed his answer again , willing them in no case to molest the christians , except they were found in some trespasse prejudicial against the empire of rome ; and to me also many there be , which write signifying their mind in like manner , to whom i have answered again to the same effect and manner as my father did ; wherefore if any hereafter shal offer any vexation or trouble to such , having no other cause , but onely for that they are such , let him that is impeached be released , and discharged free ; yea although he be found to be such ( that is a christian and let the accuser sustain the punishment , &c. this was written about years before there was a pope , on universal bishop in rome . marcus aurelius antonius , emperour to the senate and people of rome . i give you hereby to understand what i intend to do , as also what successe i have had in my wars in germany , and with how much difficulty i have victualled my camp , being compassed about with seventy and four fierce dragons , whom my scouts descried to be within nine miles of us , and pompeianus our lieutenant hath viewed , as he signified unto us by his letters ; wherefore i thought no lesse , but to be over-run , and all my bands of so great multitude , as well my vaward mainward , as rere-ward , with all my souldiers of ephrata , in whose host there were numbred of fighting men , nine hundred seventy and five thousand ; but when i saw my self not able to encounter with the enemie , i craved aid of our country gods , at whose hands i finding no comfort , and being driven of the enemy unto an exigent , i caused to be sent for those men which we call christians , who being mustered were found a good indifferent number , with whom i was in further rage then i had good cause , as afterwards i had experience , by their marvellous power , who forthwith did their endeavour , but without either weapons munition , armour , or trumpets , as men abhorring such preparations , and furniture , but onely satisfied in trust of their god , whom they carry about with them in their consciences ; it is therefore to be credited , although we call them wicked men , that they worship god in their hearts , for they falling prostrate upon the ground , prayed not onely for me , but for the host also which was with me , beseeching their god for help , in that our extremity of victuals and fresh water , for we had been now five dayes without water , and were in our enemies land , even in the midst of germany , who thus falling upon their faces made their prayer to a god unknown of me ; and there fell amongst us from heaven a most pleasant & cold showr , but amongst our enemies a great storm of hail mixt with lightning , so that immediately we perceived the invincible hand of the most mighty god to be with us ; therefore we gave those men leave to professe christianity , least perhaps by their prayer we be punished with the like , and thereby make my self the author of such hurt as shall be received by the christian profession ; and if any shall apprehend one that is a christian onely for that cause , i will that he being apprehended , without punishment , may have leave to confesse the same , so that there be no other cause objected against him , more then that he is a christian , but let his accuser be burned alive , neither will i that he confessing , and being found a christian , shall be inforced to alter the same his opinion by the governor of any of our provinces , but left to his own choice ; and this decree of mine i will to be ratified in the senate house , and command the same publiquely to be proclaimed and read in the court of trajanus ; and that further from thence it may be sent in all our provinces by the diligence of varatious governour of our city of polione ; and further we give leave to all men to use and write out this our decree , taking the same out of our copy , publiquely in the common hall set forth . this was written about years before there was a pope , or universal bishop . emperour and caesar publius licinius galienus pius fortunatus augustus , unto dionysius to pina , and to demetrian , and to all other the like bishops , the bountiful benignity of my gift . i have willed and commanded to be proclaimed through the whole world , to the intent that such which are detained in banishment for discipline sake may safely return home again from whence they came , and for the same cause i have here sent to you the example of my rescript , for you to peruse and to enjoy , so that no man be so hardly to vex or molest you , and this which you may now lawfully enjoy hath been long since by me granted , and therefore for your more warrant in the same , i have committed the exemplar hereof to the custody of aurelianus cirenius my chief steward , where you may fet the copy to see at your pleasure . this was written in the behalf of the christians about . years before there was a pope in rome . the copy of an epistle of constantinus sent to his subjects inhabiting in the east . victor constantinus maximus augustus , to our loving subjects inhabiting throughout the east parts sendeth greeting . the thing it self which in the sure and most firm law of nature is contained , doth give unto all men ( even as god hath ordained the same ) sufficient perseverance and understanding , both of such things as man ought to foresee , as also what things presently he ought to meditate , neither is there any thing therein to be doubted , of such which have their minds directed to the scope or work of perfect understanding ; so that the perfect comprehending of sound reason , and the perseverance thereof , be compared with the knowledge of god , being the true and perfect virtue ; whereof let no wise man be troubled , although be sees divers men of divers dispositions ; for wisdom which springeth of virtue , cannot abide or acquaint her self with fond idiots , unlesse that ( on the other side ) the malice of perverse litherness prolong her daies , and cause the same idiocy to survive ; wherefore assuredly the crown and price of virtue lyeth open unto all men , and the most mighty god ordereth the judgement of the same : i undoubtedly ( as manifestly as possible is ) will endeavour my self to testifie and confess unto you , all the hope which is in me ; i think verily that the emperours which before this time have lately been , even for their tiranny had the empire taken from them , and my father onely exercising and used all meekness and lenity in his affairs , calling upon god the father with great devotion and humility , hath been exalted to the same , and all the rest as men wanting their wits , and in comparison as savige beasts , rather did give themselves to like cruelty , then unto any lenity and gentleness towards their subjects , in which tiranny every one for his time being nosuled , utterly subverted the true and unfallible doctrine , and so great malice was there kindled in their breasts , that when all things were in peaceable tranquality , they made and raised most cruel and bloody intestine or civil warrs ; it is credibly informed us , that in those dayes apollo gave answers , but not by any mans mouth , but out of a certain cave and dark place , ( saying ) that he was much disquietted by those that were the just men and livers upon the earth , so that he could or would not for them declare a truth of such things as others demanded , and hereby it came to passe that such false divinations were given from the golden tables in apollo's temple , and in this thing did his prophetical priest complain of , when he took up again the hair of his head that others had contemptuously cast down ? and that the neglecting of his divination was the cause of so many evils amongst men ; but let us see what was the end hereof ; we now boldly and without all fear invocate and worship the omnipotent god. when i was a child i heard that he which then was chief emperour of rome , unhappy , yea most unhappy man , being seduced and brought into errour by his souldiers , curiously enquired who were those just men upon the earth that apollo meant , and one of his priests which was near about him , made answer that they were the christians ; this answer hereupon unto him being as delectable as honey unto the mouth , drew the sword given unto him to be revenged upon evil doers and malefactors , against the professors of the irreprehensible sanctimony and religion , and straightway he gave forth a commission ( to bloudy homicides as i may well call them ) and gave commandment to all the judges , that they should endeavour themselves with all the cunning they had , to the devising of more grievous and sharper punishment against the poor christians ; then , then i say , a man might have seen how greatly the honest professors of that religion were molested with cruelty , and daily suffered no small injuries and contumelies , and that also they suffered and sustained the same with such temperance , as though they had had no injuries done unto them at all , which temperance and patience of theirs was the cause why the furious citizens were the more mad and raging against them ; what fires , what tortures , what kind of torments were there , but they without respect either of age or sex were inforced to feel ? then did the earth without doubt her self bewail her children , and the round world which containeth all things , being sprinkled and imbrued with their bloud , made doleful lamentation for them , and the day it self provoked for to mourn was made amazed for them , but what is this to purpose ? now the very barbarous nations rejoyce for their sakes , which received and harboured them when they were afraid and fled from us , keeping them as it were in most loving and amiable captivity , and they saved not onely their lives , but also were a defence for their religion ; and now also the roman nation remembreth , and hath before their eyes this blame and spot , which the christians that were of that time worthily gave unto them , when they by them were banished ( as unfit members of their common wealth ) amongst the barbarous people ; what needeth to make further rehearsal of the mourning lamentation which the heathen people themselves throughout all the world made for the pitiful murder and slaughter of them ? after that it came to passe , that they which were authors of all these mischiefs died also , and were committed for their reward to the most filthy and horrible dungeon of hell , they being so intangled with intestine and civil wars , left alive neither name nor kinsman of their own , which thing undoubtedly had not chanced , unlesse the wicked devinations of apollo's oracles had deceived and bewitched them ; to thee therefore now i pray , oh most mighty god , that thou wilt vouchsafe to be merciful , and pardon all the east parts , and inhabitants of the same , being oppressed with calamity , and that by me thy servant thou wilt of thy goodnesse help and relieve the same ; and these things rashly crave i not at thy hands , oh lord most mighty , and holiest god of all , for i being perswaded by the onely oracles , have both begun and also finished wholesom and profitable things ; and further , by the bearing and shewing of thine ensign , have overcome a mighty and strong host , and when any necessity of the common-weal ( to my charge committed ) requireth thereunto ( following those signs and tokens of thy vertues ) i boldly go forth and fight against mine enemies ; and for this cause have i sacrificed my-soul unto thee , purified and cleansed both with thy love and fear ; yea truly , thy name do i sincerely love , and thy power do i reverence , which by many tokens and wonders hath shewed and confirmed thereby my belief and faith ; therefore will i do my endeavour , and bend my self thereunto , that i may re-edifie thy most holy house , which those wicked and ungodly emperors , have with so great ruine laid waste ; thy people do i desire to bring and establish in firm peace and tranquillity , and that for the publick utility of all the inhabitants of the earth , those which yet erre , and are out of the way , enjoy the benefit of peace and quietnesse with and amongst the number of the faithful sort , for i trust the restitution of the like society and participation may be a means to bring them also that erre into the perfect way of verity ; let no man therefore be grievous one unto another , but whatever man thinketh best , that let him do , for such as are wise ought throughly to be perswaded , that they onely mean to live holily , and as they should do , whom the spirit of god moveth to take their delight and recreation in reading his holy will ; and if others wilfully will go out of the way , cleaving to the synagogues of false doctrîne , they may at their own peril ; as for us we have the most worthy house , or congregation of gods verity , which he according to his own goodnesse and nature hath given us ; and this also we wish unto them , that with like participation and common consent , they may feel with us the same delectation of mind ; for this our religion is neither new nor newly invented , but is as old as we believe the creation of the world to be , and which god hath commanded to be celebrated with such worship as both seemed and pleased him ; but all living men are lyars , and are deceived with divers and sundry delusions ; thou o god for christ thy sons sake , suffer not this wickednesse again to root , thou hast set up a clear and burning light , that thereby as many as thou hast chosen may come unto thee , these thy miracles approved the same , it is thy power that keepeth us in innocency and fidelity , the sun and the moon run their appointed course , neither yet in ranging wise wander the stars to what place of the world they list themselves , the dayes , years , months and times keep their appointed turns , the earth abideth firm and unremovable at thy word , and the wind at the time ( by thee directed ) stormeth and bloweth , the streaming watering flouds ebb in time according as they flow , the raging sea abideth within her bounds and limits , and for that the ocean sea stretcheth out her self in equal length and breadth with the whole earth , this must needs be wrought with some marvellous workmanship of thine own hand , which thing unlesse it were at thy will made and disposed , without all doubt so great difference and partition between would ere this time have brought utter ruine and destruction both to the life of man , as to all that belongeth to man beside , which for that they have such great and huge conflicts amongst themselves , as also the invisible spirits have ; we give thee thanks o lord most mighty , god of all gods , that all mankind hath not been destroyed thereby ; surely even as greatly as thy benignity and gentleness is manifested by divers and sundry benefits bestowed upon us , so much also is the same set forth and declared in the discipline of thy eternal word to those that be heavenly wise , and apply themselves to the attainment of sincere and true vertue ; but if any such there be that little regard , or have but small respect unto the consideration thereof , let them not blame or lay a fault in others that do the same ; for that physick whereby health is obtained , is manifestly offered unto all men ; now therefore let no man go about to subvert that which experience it self doth shew ( of necessity ) to be pure and good ; let us therefore altogether use the participation of this benefit bestowed upon us , that is to say , the benefit of peace and tranquillity , setting apart all controversie , and let no man hurt or be prejudicial to his fellow for that thing wherein he thinketh himself to have done well , if by that which any man knoweth and hath experience of , he thinketh he may profit his neighbour , let him do the same , if not let him give over , and remit it till another time , for there is a great diversity betwixt the willing and the voluntary embracing of religion , and that when a man is thereunto informed , & counseled ; of these things have i made a more large discourse , than indeed the scope & mediocrity requireth , especially because i would not have my faith ( touching the verity ) to be hid , for that i hear there be some which complain the old accustomed haunting of their temples , and that the power of such darknesse is cut off and taken away , which thing surely i would take in better part , were it not that the violent rebellion of flagitious errour were so fixed in many mens hearts , whereby they thirst after the utter subversion of the common-weal and empire . this was written about years before there was a pope , or universal bishop in rome . the copy of the emperial constitution of constantinus , and licinius , for the establishing of the free worshipping of god after the christian religion . not long agone we weighing with our selves , that the liberty and freedom of religion , ought not in any case to be prohibited , but that free leave ought to be given to every man to do therein , according to his will and mind ; we have given commandment to all men to qualifie matters of religion as they themselves thought good , and that also the christians should keep the opinions and faith of their religion ; but because that many and sundry opinions by the same our first licence spring and increase through such liberty granted , we thought good manifestly to add thereunto , and make plain such things whereby perchance some of them in time to come may from such their observance be let or hindred ; when therefore by prosperous successe , i constantinus augustus ; and i linicius augustus came to mediliolanum , and there sat in council upon such things as served for the utility and profit of the common-weal , these things amongst others we thought would be beneficial to all men , yea and before all other things we purposed to establish those things wherein the true reverence and worship of god is comprehended , that is , to give unto the christians free choice to follow what religion they think good , and whereby the same sincerity and celestial grace , which is in every place received , may also be embraced and accepted of all our loving subjects ; according therefore unto this our pleasure upon good advisement and sound judgement , we have decreed , that no man so hardy be denied to chuse and follow the christian observance or religion , but that this liberty be given to every man , that he may apply his mind to what religion he thinketh meet himself , whereby god may perform upon us all his accustomed care and goodnesse ; to the intent therefore you might know that this is our pleasure , we thought it necessary this to write unto you , whereby all such errors and opinions being removed , which in our former letters being sent unto you in the behalf of the christians are contained , and which seem very undescreet and contrary to our clemency may be made frustrate and annihilate ; now therefore firmly and freely we will and command , that every man have a free liberty to observe the christian religion , and that without any grief or molestation he may be suffered to do the same . these things have we thought good to signifie unto you by as plain words as we may , that we have given to the christians , free and absolute power to keep and use their religion ; and for so much as this liberty is absolutely given of us unto them , to use and exercise their former observance , if any be disposed , it is manifest that the same helpeth much to establish the publique tranquillity of our time , every man to have license and liberty to use and chuse what kind of worshipping he list himself ; and this is done of us onely for the intent that we would have no man to be enforced to one religion more than another ; and this thing also amongst others we have provided for the christians , that they may have again the possession of such places in which heretofore they have been accustomed to make their assemblies ; so that if any have bought or purchased the same either of us or of any other , the same places without either money or other recompence forthwith and without delay we will to be restored again unto the said christians ; and if any man have obtained the same by gift from us , and shall require any recompence to be made to them in that behalf , then let the christians repair to the president , being the judge appointed for that place , that consideration may be had of those men by our benignity ; all which things we will and command that you see to be given and restored freely , and with diligence unto the society of the christians , all delay set apart ; and because the christians themselves are understood to have had not only those places wherein they were accustomed to resort together , but certain other peculiar places also , not being private to any one man , but belonging to the right of their congregation and society ; you shall see also all those to be restored unto the christians , that is to say , to every fellowship and company of them , according to the decree whereof we have made mention , all delay set apart ; provided that the order we have taken in the mean time be observed , that if any , taking no recompence , shall restore the same lands and possessions , they shall not mistrust , but be sure to be saved harmlesse by us . in all these things it shall be your part to employ your diligence in the behalf of the foresaid company of christians , wherby this our commandment may speedily be accomplished , and also in this case by our clemency the common and publick peace may be preserved ; for undoubtedly by this means , as before we have said , the good will and favour of god towards us ( whereof in many cases we have had good experience ) shall alwayes continue with us ; and to the intent that this our constitution may be notified to all men , it shall be requisite that the copy of these our letters be set up in all places , that men may read and know the same , least any should be ignorant thereof . this was written about years before there was a pope or universal bishop at rome . maximinus the emperor in the behalf of the christians . amongst other things , which for the benefit and commodity of the common-wealth we established , we commanded to reform all things according to the ancient laws and publique discipline of the romans ; and also to use this policy , that the christians , which had forsaken the religion of their forefathers , should be brought again to the right way , for such phantastical singularity was amongst them , that those things which their elders had received and allowed , they rejected and disallowed , devising every man such laws as they thought good , and observed the same , assembling in divers places great multitudes of people ; therefore when our foresaid decree was proclaimed , many there were that felt the penalty thereof , and many being troubled therefore suffered many kinds of death ; and because we see yet that there be many which persevere in the same which neither give due worship unto the celestal gods , neither receive the god of the christians , we having respect to our accustomed benignity , wherewith we are wont to shew favour unto all men , think good in this case also to extend our clemency , that the christians may be again tolerated , and appoint them places where again they may meet together , so that they do nothing contrary to publick order and discipline ; by another epistle we mean to prescribe unto the judges , what shall be convenient for them to do ; wherefore according as this our bountiful clemency deserveth , let them make intercession to god for our health , common-weal , and for themselves , that in all places the state of the common-weal may be preserved , and that they themselves may be able safely to live within their bounds . euseb . lib. . cap. ult . this was written about years before there was a pope or universal bishop in rome . sabinus the emperors chief officer wrote his pleasure in this wise . the majesty of our most gratious and soveraign lords the emperours hath lately decreed with special diligence and devotion , to induce all men to a uniform life , that they which seemed to dissent from the roman custom by a straying manner of living , should exhibit to the immortal gods their due and proper worship ; but the wilful and obstinate mind of divers so much and so continually resisted the same , that by no lawful means they might be revoked from their purpose , neither made affraid by any terror or punishment ; because therefore it so came to passe , that by this means many put themselves in peril and in jeopardy ; the majesty of our soveraign lords the emperors , according to their noble piety , considering that it was far from their princely majesties , that such things should be , whereby so many men and much people should be destroyed , gave me in charge that with diligence i should write unto you , that , if any of the christians from henceforth fortune to be taken in the exercise of their religion , that in no no wise you molest the same , neither for that cause do you judge any man worthy of punishment , for that in all this time it hath evidently appeared , that by no means they might be allured from such wilfulnesse ; it is therefore requisite that your wisdom write unto the questor , captains and constables of every city and village , that they may know it not to be lawful for them to do contrary to the prescript of this commandment , neither that they presume to attempt the same , euseb lib. . cap. this was written about three hundred and thirty years before there was a pope or chief bishop at rome . published by george fox . finis . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e great vol. page in the third persecution , an notes for div a -e page . anno in the d. persecution . notes for div a -e page . anno in the th persecution . notes for div a -e pag. . in the eighth persecution of the . anno . euseb . lib. , cap. . notes for div a -e page . about an. in the th persecution . notes for div a -e page . about an. . in the tenth persecution . notes for div a -e pag. : in the tenth persecution . anno . notes for div a -e pag. : about anno . in the tenth persecution , nineteen cases of conscience. submissively tendred to mr. hugh peters, and the rest of his fellow commissioners, the triars by sundry weak brethren. this text is an enriched version of the tcp digital transcription a of text r in the english short title catalog (thomason e _ ). textual changes and metadata enrichments aim at making the text more computationally tractable, easier to read, and suitable for network-based collaborative curation by amateur and professional end users from many walks of life. the text has been tokenized and linguistically annotated with morphadorner. the annotation includes standard spellings that support the display of a text in a standardized format that preserves archaic forms ('loveth', 'seekest'). textual changes aim at restoring the text the author or stationer meant to publish. this text has not been fully proofread approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. earlyprint project evanston,il, notre dame, in, st. louis, mo a wing n thomason e _ estc r this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (thomason tracts ; :e [ ]) nineteen cases of conscience. submissively tendred to mr. hugh peters, and the rest of his fellow commissioners, the triars by sundry weak brethren. peters, hugh, - . p. [s.n.], london : printed in the year mdclix. [ ] variant: title page has "petrs". annotation on thomason copy: "june. .". reproduction of the original in the british library. eng religious tolerance -- england -- early works to . great britain -- church history -- th century -- early works to . a r (thomason e _ ). civilwar no nineteen cases of conscience.: submissively tendred to mr. hugh peters, and the rest of his fellow commissioners, the triars by sundry weak peters, hugh d the rate of defects per , words puts this text in the d category of texts with between and defects per , words. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - aptara keyed and coded from proquest page images - jonathan blaney sampled and proofread - jonathan blaney text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion nineteen cases of conscience . submissively tendred to mr. hvgh petrs , and the rest of his fellow commissioners , the triars by sundry weak brethren . london , printed in the year mdclix . nineteen cases of conscience . i whether the immortality of a man's soul be a doctrine at all fit , or suitable to be preached , or taught , either in pulpits or books , to the men of this generation ? and whether there be any such thing as a future condition of happiness or misery in another world ? now the ground of this scruple ariseth from long observations in state ever since , till this present . ii whether it be not a matter of weighty consequence , that a petition be preferred to the parliament , to entreat them , that they would pass an act for repealing , nulling , and making void all oathes whatsoever , taken since caroli to the of septemb. ? and whether it be not expedient that this be done very suddenly , least some who may be concern'd should in the interim sneak out of the world , and so become incapable of receiving any benefit thereby ? iii whether it would not much advance our long desired reformation , if those places of scripture , out of which the common-prayer-book is collected , were diligently sought after , and blotted out of our bibles , that no mark of the superstitious liturgy may remain among us , to make our children idolaters ? iv whether lying , crying at pleasure , swearing by the living god , murthering men at an high court of justice ; perjury three or four times over ; eating the bread of orphans ; grinding the faces of the poor ; trampling on abilities ; starving a learned and orthodox ministry , and exercizing worse tyranny for five years last past over england than pharaoh did over aegypt , were sins or ●ot ? and if sins , whether any whit more venial in a saint than a sinner ? v whether we have not as good cause to celebrate a solemn anniversary of thanksgiving upon the of sept. as the of novemb. for the mercifull deliverance from the author of all our co●fusions . vi vvhether a common wealth modell'd ( as mr. harrington would have it ) like to that of israel , be not now the best kind of government for us , seeing we have so many jewes amongst us ? ( vii ) vvhether the fellowes of magdalen college in oxford , have not given dr. thomas goodwin ( upon the account of his wife better reason to make an horn-booke than dr. owen had given him by any body , to make a primmer ? ( viii ) vvhether his late highness's letter to the house was not a large manifesto of the humility of his spirit , of his forsaking the world , and the devil ; of his christian valour , and fortitude , a tryal of his patience , an exercising of all his virtues , a probate of his desire to save his windpipe , and lastly of his mighty will to inform the world and the worthies thereof how inconstant that same blind whore fortune is , how burthensome thrones and scepters ; nay how empty a thing , and how vain is supream-magistracy : and this remarqu ' may give us occasion to think upon those comparisons which are frequent concerning this matter : mr. quarl● hee sayes , or like a sun , or like a shade , or like the gourd that jonas had &c. another , he sings sweetly . fortune my foe , why art thou thus unkind , &c. comparing crowns to crabtrees , the pearls upon them to missletoe-berries which ( which we are confident ) are profitable for nothing save only to make birdlime to ensnare ambitious mortalls , who ( as hee goes on with the allegory ) are like little birds that hop up and down on little twigs on the highest trees they can find . o ( sayes the school-boy ) think upon icarus and phaaeton thou that aspirest to a diadem ! ( saies another classicall author ) remember belizarius , blind belizarius reaching out his cripled fingers , and crying , give poor belizarius one farthing ! o who would not part with an hundred protectordomes ( if hee had them ) to occasion so many good thoughts in a sinner . ix . vvhether this parliament would not quit curtesie handsomly to turn his bones out of the abbey , who turn'd them by force , and violence against all humanity , and good manners out of the parliament house ? or in short whether quid pro quo be not lawfull , and avowable ? x. vvhether machiavels maxime , for which our divines rail so at him ( viz. ) that [ christian religion makes man cowards , ] be not now sound doctrine , and most evidently demonstrated his by late highnesse ? xi . vvhether a man may not venture his soul for the procurement of an estate , and promotion of his worldly interests , altogether as laudably as for religion ? xii . vvhether it were not a deed of charity in the parliament to erect another high court of justice , that so the lord l●s ; le might know how to dispose of some of that time , and leasure which they have thought fit to allot him , by discharging him the trouble of being one of the keepers of the great seal of england ? and whether we ought not to think in charity that the house discarded him of his dignities in tender compassion to his soul , that so he might have convenience to repent him of his blood guiltinesse , and other crying sins , which can the pared off with his nails . xiii . vvhether sermons should not be put down as well as playes , the meetings being farr greater , the a●●ores more seditious , and fewer souldiers being there , by their good wills ? xiv . whether the whore of babylon that man of sin , be in good earnest ( after so many disputes ) a man , or a 〈◊〉 , or an hermaphrodit● ? xv . whether old oliver cromwel , and dr. iohn hewyt , are now within sight of one another ; and if not , how many leagues over the gulph is that parts 'em ? and truly the resolution of this one doubt ( if the gulph were stated to be but narrow ) would make many men in this world excellent swimmers , in hopes one day to make use of their art , when the time shall come that they must either sink , or swim . xvi . whether they best deserve of the state who have hazarded their persons , and estates , or they that have ventur'd their souls and consciences for the good old cause . xvii . whether we be not much happier now than we have been any time this seven years before , in regard we have again gotten over us the harp , and crosse , one being an inctrument of mirth , and the other a badg of our religion ; wheras before we had a great white ramping lyon over us : now a lyon is a beast of prey , and the property of beasts of prey is to devour ( as we all know . ) viii . vvhether the devil be not a malignant , because he is so hot for monarchy ? and whether ( if the act of oblivion will not quit him ) that one argument be not enough to perswade men to defie him and all his works ? ( xix ) vvhether , seeing that liberty of conscience is now generally granted to all men , it be not the best exercise for poor witty cavalliers to write pamphlets , and the best recreation for rich commonwealth's men to read them ? the end . the christian moderator: or, persecution for religion condemned, by the light of nature. law of god. evidence of our own principles. birchley, william, - . this text is an enriched version of the tcp digital transcription a of text r in the english short title catalog (thomason e _ ). textual changes and metadata enrichments aim at making the text more computationally tractable, easier to read, and suitable for network-based collaborative curation by amateur and professional end users from many walks of life. the text has been tokenized and linguistically annotated with morphadorner. the annotation includes standard spellings that support the display of a text in a standardized format that preserves archaic forms ('loveth', 'seekest'). textual changes aim at restoring the text the author or stationer meant to publish. this text has not been fully proofread approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. earlyprint project evanston,il, notre dame, in, st. louis, mo a wing a thomason e _ estc r this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (thomason tracts ; :e [ ]) the christian moderator: or, persecution for religion condemned, by the light of nature. law of god. evidence of our own principles. birchley, william, - . [ ], p. printed for h.j., [london] : in the yeer . attributed to john austin, who used the pseudonym william birchley. place of publication from wing. reproduction of the original in the british library. eng religious tolerance -- england -- early works to . a r (thomason e _ ). civilwar no the christian moderator: or, persecution for religion condemned,: by the light of nature. law of god. evidence of our own principles. birchley, william b the rate of defects per , words puts this text in the b category of texts with fewer than defects per , words. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - aptara keyed and coded from proquest page images - elspeth healey sampled and proofread - elspeth healey text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion the christian moderator : or , persecution for religion condemned , by the light of nature . law of god . evidence of our own principles . james ii. xii . so speak you and so do , as they that are judged by the law of liberty : for they shall be judged without mercy that have shewed no mercy . mille hominum species , & rerum discolor usus , — per me equidem sint omnia protinus alba . printed for h. j. in the yeer . persecution for religion condemned , & . when i consider how tenderly your saviour christ recommends the precept of mutuall love to all that professe his name , making it the character of his followers . by this all men shall know that you are my disciples , if you love one another , john . . and when i reflect how highly the great apostle paul exalts the same commandement , abridging into this one precious ●●●●…ble , the whole duty of a christian , all the law is fulfill'd in one word , thou shalt love thy neighbour as thy self , gal. . i cannot sufficiently wonder , to see most christians in this present age with fire and sword persecute each other , only upon the account of religion : how are we degenerated from the primitive believers , who would rather have given their own lives , to perswade their enemies to piety , then sought to take away the lives of their brethren , to force them to hypocrisie ? yet hath it pleased the lord christ in our daies , upon whom the ends of the world are come , to infuse the like tendernesse into the brests of many conscientious and godly minded people of this nation , ( who seeing the deformity and unreasonablenesse of those cruell maximes , that preach ruine and destruction for the least difference in belief ) cease not to pray unto the god of heaven , and solicite the governors of the earth , that an impartiall freedome , and absolute incoercency in matters of religion may be firmly and irrevocably establisht , for all that professe the gospell of christ . for incouragement of which holy design , woven out of the bowells of mercy , and for determent of those tempestuous spirits , that with thunder and lightning strive to storm mens consciences , i have indeavoured in this short discourse to demonstrate , that conscience-persecution amongst christians is clearly repugnant to the light of nature , the law of god , and the evidence of our own principles . demonstrative reasons against forcing of conscience . . since we have so happily shaken off that intollerable yoke of popish infallibility ( which neither we nor our fathers were able to bear ) it is become to us not only tyrannicall , but absurd , to compell others to a way , that our selves confesse may possibly be erronious ; we see one parliament repeals those articles of faith which a former enacted ; that form of worship which the laws of the last age introduced , is now generally exploded ; nay , the very last reformation , setled with so solemn a covenant , and carried on with so furious a zeal , is already by better lights discovered to be meerly humane , & therefore deservedly laid aside : the late synods confession of faith ( hatch'd by so many years sitting ) is now learnedly examined , and indeed for a great part solidly confuted , by mr. w. parker , and other learned persons in print ; how preposterous is it then to constrain a soul , not only to forsake his conscience , which may be truth , but drive him contrary to his own heart , to a way that may be error ! . since the word of god is the sole rule of faith , and no humane authority so highly impowred , as to bind up our assents to whatsoever interpretation it shall please to propose ; it clearly follows , that as all the children of god have equall interest in the testament of their father , so no one amongst them has any right to impose a force upon the judgement of his brother : one holds baptism of children to be necessary , another esteems it unlawfull , a third denies both these opinions , admitting well that it may , but not that it must be done : they conferre texts , look into originall tongues , pray incessantly to god , and professe solemnly the sincerity of their intentions ; yet after all their diligences and devotions , stedfastly remain in their former perswasion ; truely for my part , he that should advise persecution in such a case ( unlesse his fire brought light too with it , to demonstrate the truth ) would scarce satisfie my suspition , that his coals were fetcht from the infernall pit . . if we reflect upon the difficulties that encounter us in the way to truth , for strait is the gate , and narrow is the path , and withall consider the shortnesse of our sight , for here we see but in part , and understand but in part : there will appear more reason to endeavour the mutuall assistance and support , then malicious ruine and destruction one of another . however , since all have neither equall depth of naturall judgment , nor the same measure of supernaturall illumination , but the spirit bloweth how and where it pleaseth , we ought not to attempt so high a presumption , as to despise or persecute our b●other for his innocent and blamelesse mistakes , lest we be found to fight against god , who is the free disposer of his gifts ; we know the way of man is not in himself , jer. . . but his steps are ruled by the lord , pro. . . and therefore certainly , did we bear a due respect to god , we would be content to wait his leisure , who has engaged himself by his apostle , phil. . . if any man be otherwise minded , god shall in time reveal even this unto him : let us therefore entertain such an one , who proceeds in the simplicity of his heart , with milk , till he grow stronger to digest strong meat . . all compulsion upon the conscience returns us flatly to our old slavery under the prelates , nay more to the implicite faith of the papists , with this only difference , that we are worse then either , because our consciences accuse us of doing that which we condemn in others ; for whatsoever i am constrained to swear or professe more then i am convinced of , proceeds from as great a tyranny as the high commission , and is as blind an assent , as can be match'd in the grossest popery , and dare we think that doing the same things we judge in others , we shall escape the judgement of god , rom. . . . force is punishment , and consequently not just , unlesse the offence be voluntary , but he that believes according to the evidence of his own reason , is necessitated to that belief , and to compell him against it , were to drive him to renounce the most essentiall part of man his reason . why should we be commanded to try the spirits , john . . to prove all things , thes. . . if there be not a faculty in the soul to judge for her self ? why are we enjoyned to hold fast that which we find to be best , if after our most serious and deliberate election we shall be whipt out of our conscience by penalties ? to what purpose do we preach poor souls into just so much liberty of scripture , as may beget their torture , and not permit them to rest where they find satisfaction ; either prohibit to search at all , or leave us sensible of some benefit by teaching ; to believe what appears untrue , seems to me impossible , to professe what we believe untrue , i am sure is damnable . . as it is certain , whosoever swerves from the dictate of his conscience commits a grievous sin , rom. . so without question they that endeavour by force or artifice to draw any man to professe or act contrary to what his soul believes , are as deeply guilty of the same crime , when you wound the weak consciences of your brethren , you sin against christ , cor. . . how dangerously then do they expose themselves to the just indignation of god , who by oaths , imprisonments , forfeitures , &c. both drive others , and fall themselves into eternall perdition ? how desperately do they attempt to extinguish the light of nature , which indispensably obliges all men to deal with others , as they would be dealt with themselves , a light placed by god in clear and candid souls to shine and guide them , but in black ones to condemn and burn them ; i shall close this discourse with the advise of the apostle , rom. . . let us therefore use our judgement rather in this , that no man put a stumbling block before his brother . . unanswerable texts of scripture against coercency in religion . nor are these so excellent and important truths built only upon the firme foundation of solid reason , but also upon the infallible authority of evident scripture , tim. . &c. the servant of the lord must not strive , but be gentle unto all men , apt to teach , for bearing , in meeknesse instructing those that are contrary minded , if god peradventure will give them repentance , to the acknowledging of the truth , that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devill , who are taken captive by him at his will : and another apostle forbidding us to condemn one another , saith ( james . ) there is one lawgiver , who is able to save and to destroy : who art thou that judgest another ? and in paul to the romans . . who art thou that judgest anothers servant ? to his own master he standeth or falleth , yea he shall be holden up , for god is able to make him stand ; one man esteemeth one day above another , another esteemeth every day alike , let every man be fully perswaded in his own mind , hast thou faith ? have it to thy self before god , happy is he that condemneth not himself in that which he alloweth , that is , whose conscience inwardly accuseth not his outward profession ; the same most zealous preacher of the gospell returns so condescending and moderate an answer to a case of a far harder sound then we undertake to maintain , that it sufficiently proves he took his gentle pen from the soft wing of the dove , cor. . . &c. if any brother hath a wise that believeth not , and she be pleased to dwell with him , let him not put her away , and the woman that hath a husband that believeth not , and he be pleased to dwell with her , let her not leave him , but if the unbelieving depart , let him depart ; a brother or a sister is not in bondage in such cases , but god hath called us to peace ; for what knowest thou o wife , whither thou shalt save thy husband ? and what knowest thou o man whither thou shalt save thy wife ? as god hath distributed to every man , as the lord hath called every one , so let him walk , and so ordain i in all churches . what can be said more efficaciously to oblige christians , in charity and meeknesse to forbear one another , then so expresse an injunction of so great an apostle , to live peaceably even with an infidell ? and again cor. . . he denies that even the apostles themselves have any soveraignty over the conscience , but only commissions to assist the conscientious , not that we have ( saies he to the corinthians ) dominion over your faith , but are helpers of your joy ; therein exactly observing the orders which christ gave to his apostles , go and teach , not compell , and if any one receive you not , shake off the dust of your feet , no● trample upon them , as dust under your feet , mat. . . constant to which doctrine of meeknesse , our saviour thus instructs his disciples , mat. . . be not called rabbi ( that is masters in spiritual matters ( for one is your master , even christ , and all you are brethren . to this belongs the patient forbearing the tares , and letting them grow together with the wheat till the time of harvest : as also that admirable president of mildnesse towards the samaritanes , who refused to receive even christ himself , whereupon the disciples james and john , would immediately command fire from heaven to consume them , as in the daies of elias , but our mercifull lord rebuked their zeal , with this sweet and tender reply , you know not what manner of spirit you are of , the son of man is not come to destroy mens lives , but to save them , luke . . which one example abundantly satisfies all objections drawn from the practise of elias , jehu , the sons of levi , &c. in the old testament , for as they had an expresse command from god to warrant their zeal , we have an expresse warrant from christ to command us meeknesse . if any one shall shuffle in a suspition , that this moderate temper was meant only for the times of persecutition , when the christians had no temporall power ; let him first confesse that those were the best and purest times , and then show a warrant dormant under our saviours hand ( that is in his gospell ) to commissionate his disciples as soon as they should get the sword into their hands , to cut the throats of all disobeyers , and i submit ; but if they can cite no such authority , let them freely acknowledge that persecution for conscience is an unwarrantable tyranny over the just priviledges and liberty of a christian . . our own principles against constraint upon the conscience . consonant to these reasons and clear texts of scripture , are the principles of all the godly and well-affected of this nation : to begin with them to whom we owe this liberty of discoursing , the unparallel'd army , in all whose proceedings , and declarations ( especially since managed by the prodigiously successefull hands of the two later generalls ) their motto has been liberty to all tender and oppressed consciences , the glory of which so dazles the eys of our enemies , and incourages the hearts of our friends , that notwithstanding whatever other disadvantage , we still find the author of our victory mindfull of the word , which himself gave to our army , the meek shall inherit the land ; of which short texts written in our ensigns , we may read a clear and perfect commentary in the proposalls of the same stil triumphing army . aug. . when penetrating exactly into the true state of the question , they prudently distinguish between quiet exercicers of their consciences , and active prejudicers of the common-wealth , and thereupon offer their earnest desires , that all coercive power , and all civill penalties for non-conformity be wholly repealed , and some other provision made against such papists as should disturb the publike peace . many and wonderfull are the deliverances which our good god has dispensed to his servants , in reward of this their inclination to mercifullnesse , yet amongst all the glorious appearances of the lord for his people , none can be found more eminent then the renowned victory over that rigid and severe kirk-army of the scots , september . who declining the mild counsell of our saviour , to possesse their souls with patience , deservedly lost their lives by violence , a fatall argument , deciding manifestly this very controversie in favour of meeknesse , where the maintainers of compulsion were no lesse ingeniously then cruelly confuted , whilest assuming to themselves a power to force our souls , they could not so much as defend their own bodies . in memory of which great salvation from the pride and fury of the presbyterian priesthood , the parliament , as a new covenant of thanksgiving for so seasonable a mercy , in the same moneth enacted an abolishment of divers rigorous and penall statutes , contrived on purpose by the haughty prelates , to break the hearts of those , whose consciences they could not bend , which one act has won more hearts to acknowledge and love the authority of the parliament , then all their stupendious victories have forced bodies to confesse and fear their power ▪ and if it be not check'd by limitations and partiality in the execution , will render them absolute masters of all that understand their own felicity : for what can be imagined more welcome to a christian people newly delivered from an antichristian bondage , then to see themselves infranchised into a holy liberty of proceeding sincerely , according to their consciences in the worship of their god ? wherefore as we are full of joy for so excellent an act , by which ( as the apostle saith ) we are called unto liberty , so we are full of hopes to be perfectly happy , by the free and universal observation thereof , without the least self-interest or respect of persons , being so conformable to the constant received maximes and solemn deliberate profession of the parliament , as appears by the declaration of the lords and commons , in answer to the scotch papers , mar. . where folio . the discipline of ecclesiasticall censures , and all other punishmeuts for matters of religion are disclaimed , as grounded upon popish and prelaticall principles , not to be revived under any image or shape whatsoever ; and a little after folio . they proceed in the same sense , we shall not be afraid at the day of judgement , that we have been more forward to set christ at liberty , then to cast him in prison , it being better in our opinion ( where the case is not very clear ) to leave god to deal against many errours , then to use his authority for the suppressing of one truth ; the weapons of fasting and prayer , being both more christian , and more available in such cases , then those of force and violence : and yet more fully ( if possible ) in another declaration in answer to the letters of the scotch commissioners , . feb. . as for the truth and power of religion , it being a thing intrinsecall between god and the soul , and the matters of faith in the gospell being such as no naturall light doth reach unto , we conceive there is no humane power of coertion thereunto , nor to restrain men from believing what god suffers their judgements to be perswaded of . words of that solid weight and precious value , as deserve to be ingraven with letters of gold , and religiously observed for ever by all tender consciences , as an oracle . conformable to the aforesaid principles is that excellent doctrine and advise set down by mr. parker and his brethren , in their examen of the late synods confession of faith , in these words , page . liberty of conscience may be infringed , first by seeking by violent means to alter conscientious mens judgments , and their present perswasion ; for it is the office of him who is the lord of conscience , to lighten and change mens minds , when and how he pleaseth , phil. . . let us therefore as many as be perfect be thus minded , and if in any thing you be otherwise minded , god shall reveal this unto you . . by inciting another by like forcible means , to will and act against his conscience , and much more by imprisonment , mulcts , terrours or threats , rom. . . . . for this is to make him destroy his soul , ver. . . . we may not disturb the peace of mens consciences , or make their hearts sad with our invectives , or menacing them causlesly with terrors from the lord , ezechiel . . because with lies ye have made the hearts of the righteous sad , whom i have not made sad , &c. and in page . thus , but we would not have you assume to your selves , or attribute unto others , a power to lord it over mens faith and consciences , especially when men walk obediently towards those that are in places of rule and authority , and live a godly , sober , honest , peaceable , and unblameable life . if men will do wickedly , and defend a liberty in christ so to do , let them be liable to the sword of justice for so doing . but far be it from us , so much as by example , to draw a weak brother , a saint and fellow-servant of the lord , whom no man can accuse , but for his differing judgement , to do any thing against conscience , whereby he should condemn himself , as the apostle speaks , rom. . how much more ought governours to be tender and abstemious in the use of violent and coercive means , to precipitate men into such perillous and destructive courses . all authority is given of god for mens welfare , and much more for the preservation , and not the destruction of the soul . by these considerations ( i conceive ) is clearly demonstrated the freedome of a christian soul in her commerce for heaven , which since the mercifull bounty of god holds forth indifferently to all , the cruell covetousnesse of man ought not to obstruct to any , surely it is the worst of monopolies to lay impositions upon the way to paradise ; christ by his death , removed the angell that chased from thence our first parents ; and shall any of us take the flaming sword into our hands , to sheath it in the bowells of a poor pilgrime , who with a sincere heart travails to the same countrey , only because he goes not in our company ? in my fathers house are many mansions , saies christ , why may there not be as many paths that lead to them ? if they that have no law , shall be judged without the law , certainly they that unblameably mistake the law , shall be tryed according to those expositions which appeared unto them , to be the meaning of the law-giver , ( for the sense is the law , and not the letter ) specially having so gracious a judge , who has already declared by his apostle , cor. . if there be first a willing mind , it is accepted according to what a man hath , and not according to what he hath not . wherefore let us not by a suddain violence break into pieces the consciences of our brethren , but mildly thaw them into a cordiall and ingenuous unity , that righteousnesse and peace may flow together in the same channell , and not as broken ice dash one against another : let us patiently expect , till the lord be pleased to take off the vail from their hearts that are otherwise minded , and not by forcing their judgements , add to their vail of ignorance a worser of hypocrisie , it being now a common experiment , that generally the issue of compulsionary and forced conformity closes in this , to make some few counterfeit protestants , and a great many reall atheists ; whence it is clearly concluded , that the only true means of winning souls to god , is the gospellary way of meeknesse and perswasion , and indeed it may worthily be esteemed the prime miracle of christianity , that a person so humble as our saviour appeared , without the assistance of kings and princes , without the enchanting words of mans wisdome , without the affrighting threats of fines , imprisonments , and deaths , ( though all these were absolutely subject to his pleasure , ) should conquer powers and principalities , should out-charm the magick of humane eloquence , and by the admirable successe of his mildnesse , condemn all those politique religions that confesse their own crazinesse , by using cruelty to support them ; whereas to reduce the disobedient only with the spirit of gentlenesse , and admonition , or at most desertion , argues indeed a divinity in the author , and a purity in the ordinance : and here we may fitly apply the words of our lord , john . if it had been otherwise , i would have told you ; if the way of planting my faith had been by imposing penalties on the hearers , and not rather by exposing the preachers thereof to dangers , i would have told you : if the means of preserving religion had been by watering it with the bloud of refusers to embrace it , rather then of those that sought to propogate it , i would have told you either by my example ( all the world being in the power of my deity ) or by my doctrine , all justifiable proceedings concerning the government of my flock , being derived from the warrant of my word ; thus we see our gracious law-maker , faithfull and constant to his own principles , the son of man came not to destroy mens lives , but to save them : thus we see our own duty to learn of him , for he is meek and humble of heart ; let us not therefore judge one another any more , but use our judgement rather in this , that no man put an occasion to fall , or a stumbling block before his brother , rom. . . let us alwaies remember the advertisement which the beloved disciple gives to all his fellow-servants of the lord christ , john . . the servant is not greater then his lord , if you know these things , happy are you if you do them . of tender consciences . these few unpolisht lines , which i here present for incouragement of tendernesse , i desire may not be stretcht to draw in a wild and extravagant licentiousnesse , since they aim no farther then to hold up a liberty to such only as professe christ , and walk before the lord in the integrity of their heart , who by the following marks are easily discernable from all those that for their blasphemies in doctrines and debauchery in manners are worthily excluded from the benefit of this indulgence . supposing first , as confest by all understanding men , that tendernesse of conscience is not the same thing with truth of judgement , ( else there could be but one only kind , because truth is but one ) but it signifies a proceeding bonâ fide , without sinister respects , or dissimulation , seeking before all things to know god , and fearing above all things to offend him . and secondly , since in our enquiry , to whom belongs so honorable a title , we cannot pierce into the inward thoughts of men , we must give sentence as they appear to us , which rule in cases of this quality is in it self sufficiently certain ; however , 't is the only means god has allowed our nature to guide her resolutions in the judging of others . the signs then of tender consciences are these , if they lead regular , vertuous , and peaceable lives ; if their opinions be not justly accuseable of self-interest or licentiousnesse , but rather require of them a prudent and religious severity against the inclinations of corrupted nature ; if their judgemen●s be steddy , not fann'd to a new sense with every breath of wind ; if they continue in the same perswasions at their death , which is no time for dissembling , at least we ought to judge so , if they not only die in their faith , but for it , not only give away good part of their estates charitably , but suffer all to be taken away patiently , and all this for christs sake , or ( to speak more closely ) for that which they believe to be his will and commandement , no higher testimony of a true and reall sincerity can possibly be given , or easily imagined ; and whosoever doubts after such evidence , ( chiefly if many concur in the same way ) deserves to be condemned , as the most passionate , malicious and uncharitable person in the world , for though one man may value his fancy above his life or estate , yet it is very neer an absolute impossibility , that many ( especially if they be discreet and rationall in other negotiations ) should agree to undo themselves for a meer conceit , did they not seriously believe , it more imports them to keep their faith , then lose their fortunes . by these rules we may easily conclude the admission of those pious and religious persons , who were imprisoned and persecuted by the late prelates , into the number of tender consciences , as also those precious servants of the lord , who by a voluntary banishment left their friends and countrey to plant the liberty of the gospell amongst the savage heathens of america . whilst i was finishing these lines , a worthy friend of mine came to honour me with the civility of a visit , to whom reading these last two or three considerations , he told me , that as he believed , the characters i had given of a tender conscience , were most evidently true , and to all unbiased-minds perfectly satisfactory , yet they were appliable to a sort of people in this nation , whose being discountenanced , is thought so profitable to the state , and so pleasing to a certain froward part of the ministery , that he feared my reasons might incounter some opposition , unlesse they met with very ingenuous and disinteressed readers , plainly telling me , that the measures i had cut out for tender consciences would fit the papists as well as if they had been made for them , for who live more peaceably with their neighbours , ( sayes he ) who deal more justly with all men , then they ? who are more constant in their religion , and more scrupulous in the observances of their law , then they ? who suffer for their faith more then they ; nay at this time , who besides them ? they submit their understandings to the definitions of their church , and their wills to the obedience of it's discipline , in fasting , confession , and many other burthensome duties , all which are very disagreeable to the dictates of flesh and bloud , as containing the real practise of the highest self-deniall that can be imagined : and for the serious hour of death , i must confesse , i have known many of us turn papists upon our death-bed , but never in all my life so much as once the contrary ; and to speak ingenuously , i have often observed , that they who go from us to them , seem ( which you make the only judge ) more spirituall , retired , and devout , then before they left us , whereas of the papists that become protestants ( besides the worldly designs they may easily be thought to have ) most commonly they grow more licentious , both in faith and manners , especially the priests , who seldome or never are converted , if once past the age of marrying . i , who had alwaies believed the punishments laid upon them , were reducible to civill crimes , though defended by them as points of religion , resolved to follow those so certain and evident principles , which i had already framed ( for discerning of tender consciences ) whithersoever they should lead me ; and therefore desired my friend to bring me to the knowledge of some moderate and discreet papist , that i might examine their tenents , not doubling their easie exclusion from the priviledges of tender consciences , this my friend immediately did , recommending one to me , a morally honest and understanding man , though ( sayes he ) a little abused in his religion , and a great deal for it ; after we had met , and agreed to discourse with all freedome , the recusant began with a short story of the present sufferings of papists ; whereof ( he said ) some are sequestred for delinquency , and those of all cavaliers ( caeteris paribus ) the most severely , though of all the most excuseable , because wholly depending upon the pleasure of the late king , and infinitely obliged to his royall lenity ; noting it as an unanswerable argument of their fidelity and gratitude towards such as deal with them in mercy , as also that their declining to receive the oaths of supremacy and allegiance , for which they have heretofore been so violently persecuted , proceeded not from any aversion to civill obedience , but because there were mingled in those oaths certain expressions of a pure spirituall nature , repugnant to their consciences , and altogether unnecessary to the common security . others are equally punished , that is their whole estates sequestred , allowing only a fifth part for their wives and children , though in true reason they are altogether justifiable , having never been in any engagement , but found only in some garrisons of the king , whether they were driven for refuge , being put out of the protection of the parliament by publique proclamation , their houses every where rifled , their goods plunder'd , and lives endangered by the souldiers , whose condition seems clearly to be within the equity of that article of the armies proposalls , aug. . that the kings meniall servants , who never took up arms , but only attended on his person , according to their offices , be freed from composition ; much more those who had both the civill reason of duty , and the unanswerable argument of necessity , to plead for their discharge : and ( which is yet more hard ) some recusants of this classe , who never bare armes , but were only found in garrisons , for their own personall security , as aforesaid , are now rank'd among the highest delinquents , and their estates to be sold , such are sir henry beddingfield , mr. bodenham , mr. gefford , &c. as for the single recusants , two thirds of their estates are seized upon , only for the cause of religion , under which notion are included all such as were heretofore convict of not resorting to common prayers , or do now refuse the oath of abjuration , a new oath made by the two houses , when the former kind of service was abolish't , wherein the practise is strangely severe ; for upon bare information , the estate of the suspected is secured , that is his rents &c. suspended , before any tryall , or legall proof , even in these times of peace , and being once thus half-condemn'd , he has no other remedy to help himself , but by forswearing his religion , and so by an oath a thousand times harsher then that ex officio , they draw out of his own mouth his condemnation . when the sequestrators have thus seized into their hands two thirds of the most innocent recusants lands and goods , then come the excize-men , tax-gatherers , and other collectors , and pinch away no small part of the poor third penny that was left them ; so that after these deductions i have known some estates of three hundred pound a year , reduced to lesse then threescore , a lean pittance to maint●in them and their children , being persons for the most part of good quality , and civill education : and as for priests it is made as great a crime , to have taken orders after the rites of their church , as to have committed the most hainous treason that can be imagined , and they are far more cruelly punish't , then those that murder their own parents . besides these extreme and fatall penalties that lie upon the recusants meerly for their conscience , there are many other afflictions whereof few take notice , which though of lesser weight , yet being added to the former , quite sink them down to the bottom of sorrow and perplexity ; as their continuall fear of having their houses broken open , & search'd by pursuivants , who enter at what hours they please , and do there what they list , taking away , not only all the instruments of their religion , but oftentimes money , plate , watches , and other such popish idolls , especially if they be found in the same room with any pictures , and so infected with a relative superstition . another of their afflictions is , that they , i mean these single recusants , have no power to sell or morgage the least part of their estates , either to pay their just debts , or defray their necessary expences , whereby they are disabled for all commerce , and their credit being utterly lost , ( upon which many of them now provide even their daily bread ) they must needs in a short time be brought to a desperate necessity , if not absolute ruine ; and if any , the most quiet and moderate amongst them , should desire to transplant himself to a milder climate , and to endeavour to avoid the offence that is taken against him in his own countrey , he cannot so dispose of his estate here , as by bill of exchange , or any other way , to provide the least subsistence for himself and his family , a severity far beyond the most rigid practice of the scotch kirk ; for there ( as i am informed ) the persons of recusants are only banisht out of the kingdome , and prohibited to reside at their own homes above forty daies in a year , which time is allowed them for the managing of their estates , and their estates allowed them for their maintainance abroad : a proceeding which their principles would clearly justifie , if they could justifie their principles : but in england , where compulsion upon the conscience is decryed as the worst of slaveries , to punish men so sharply for matters of religion , contrary to the principles publikely received , is a course that must needs beget over all the world a strong suspition and prejudice against the honour and reputation of that state , which at the same time can practise such manifest contradictions . to this deplorable condition ( said he almost weeping ) are the english catholiques now reduced , yet they bear all , not only with patience , but even silence ; for amongst the printed complaints so frequent in these times , never any thing has been seen to proceed from them , though alwaies the chief , and now the sole sufferers for their consciences , except ( not to be altogether wanting to themselves ) some modest petitions humbly addressed to the parliament , though such has been their unhappinesse , that more weighty affairs have still disappointed their being taken into consideration ; else were they admitted to clear themselves of the mistakes and scandalls unjustly imputed to them , they would not doubt fully to satisfie all ingenuous and unpassionate men , nay even whomsoever , that were but moderately prejudiced against them . to this i answered , that as every one sees the severity of the penalties which papists suffer , so for my self , i believe the tendernesse of their consciences , because they suffer : and upon this ground we see our judges and commi●…ee-men allow deeds , where they find cleer proof of a valuable consideration : but idolatry , and the destructive principles concerning civill government , seem to me the two points that are onely and altogether intolerable in that religion . whether papists be guilty of idolatry in the question of angells , saints , and pictures . the papist here first took for granted , which indeed i could not deny , that if any opinion be probably true , persecution in that case is certainly unlawfull , because otherwise both sides , for both are probable , if one be , might justifiably persecute one another , to the utter destruction of all society , and after returned this answer to my first objection . we reverence indeed ( sayes he ) the angells and blessed saints , with a respect far more then we use to men , because far above their dignity , but infinitely below the adoration we give to god , because infinitely below his excellency . all the mistakes in this controversie arising from hence , that the language of men has more distinctivenesse and variety then the gestures of their bodies , and yet is far lesse copious then the thoughts of their minds , whence it is they so frequently apply to most different conceptions the self-same words and postures of body , as the titles of sacred majesty , most high , most mighty , given to kings and states , the stile of grace to dukes and archbishops , of lord to noblemen , generalls , ambassadors , &c. of worship to gentlemen of quality , and such as bear any considerable office in the common-wealth ; so kneeling to parents , standing bare to the parloament , and other courts , bowing to one another , &c. all these very expressions are the same we use towards god himself , and passe innocently , when rightly understood , but to a scrupulous and wilfull spirit , how offensive would this one word worshipfull be , if he reflected with a little rigour and frowardnesse upon it ? now as every old woman has capacity enough to make a different apprehension betwixt going to speak with one at the lion in cheapside , and going to see the lion in the tower , so may any the most simple catholique in the world , by a very little teaching , learn to distinguish the crucifix which he sees in the church , from christ whom he believes to be in heaven , and consequently in no more danger of committing idolatry to that picture , then the other of fearing to he torn in pieces by the sign . upon this argument of the papist , i call'd to mind what i had read my self in scripture , how the prophet balaam fell flat upon the ground , and adored an angell , num. . . and joshua gave the same honour to another , that stil'd himself captain of the lords host , and therefore could not be the lord , jos. . . nay he was commanded yet farther , to put off his shoes , because the ground was holy , by the presence of an angell ; these examples i confesse , being related in the bible , without the least note of reproof , enforce us to admit severall degrees of worship , infinitely differing in the intention of the mind , though very little in outward expressions . now by whatsoever names we protestants shal agree to call this behaviour of balaam , joshua , and even all the jews before the ark and cherubins , i see plainly will fully expresse , and shrewdly justifie ( at least from idolatry ) all the approved practises of the papists , which truly cast up , as far as i can discern , amount to no more then a reverence towards saints and angells , suitable to the excellency of their state , and for churches , altars , pictures , &c. only to an ecclesiasticall kind of good manners . and by the light of nature thus far seems to me evident , that all honor or dishonor done to the image , reflects upon the principall , since not one amongst us but would condemn him for a malignant , that should shoot at my lord generalls picture without temple bar , and if any should reprove him for his temerity , we would presently conclude such person wel-affected to the present government , and not at all sequestrable for idolatry , unlesse we could prove that the abused and doting people superstitiously adored the painted cloth , which kind of worship , i am satisfied , no recusant gives even to the picture of our saviour . lastly , i think it probable , not certain , as the papists do , that the second commandement intends not to forbid any such inferiour spirituall civilities , because wise governours contrive their laws against those vices , to which they see their subjects particularly enclined , and therefore downright idolatry , by offering sacrifice to gods , made with hands , and reposing confidence in their assistance , being the common sins of those times , 't is probable we ought to interpret this precept , as a provision against heathenish idolatry , not against such kind of reverences as the jewes by gods own appointment used before the ark and cherubins . agreeable to this , is the opinion of the learned mr. hobs in his leviathan , where fol. . he affirms that to worship god in some peculiar place , or turning a mans face towards an image , is not to worship the place or image , but to acknowledge them holy , that is to say , set apart from common use ; for that is the meaning of the word holy , which implies no new quality in the place or image , but only a new relation by appropriation to god , and therefore is not idolatry . but to worship god , as inanimating or inhabiting such place or image , is idolatry , as also to worship god , not as inanimating or present in the place or image , but to the end to be put in mind of him or of some of his works , in case the place or image be dedicated or set up by private authority , and not by the authority of them that are our soveraigne pastors , is idolatry : for the commandement is , thou shalt not make to thy self any graven image . thus in my judgment doth that learned protestant absolutely clear the papists of idolatry , though perhaps he had more precisely exprest this last way of transgressing the second commandement , if he had call'd it will-worship rather then idolatry , because there is only a want of commission , no excesse in the degree of reverence : and though afterwards he condemne praying to saints departed , as idolatry , yet it is only upon a particular supposition of his own , that there is yet no such thing as saints in heaven . when i had read this passage of so famous an author to the recusant , he to requite my civility , immediately shewed me the words of the councell of trent ▪ which he said differed nothing at all from mr. hobs , and very little from me : for as i thought , that the exhibition of some inferior kind of reverence towards churches , and other instruments of piety , was probably unforbidden : so that councell decrees the absolute lawfulnesse thereof in the . session , where to the canon concerning images are added these words of explanation : not that there is believed any divinity or vertue in them , for which they ought to be worshipped , or that they are to be petitioned for any thing , or any confidence ought to be reposed in images , as of old was done by the gentiles , who placed their hope in idolls , but because the honor exhibited to them is referred to the prototypes they represent , that so thorough the images , which we kisse and before which we bare our heads and kneel down , we may adore christ and venerate his saints . upon occasion of which words , the papist assured me , that in no councell is used the phrase of religious worship , when they treat of these questions , nor any thing concerning them commanded as necessary , but only their lawfullnesse declared , that such as find benefit by their assisting the memory , or exciting the affections , may safely use them , the rest may let them alone , provided they censure not the practise of others , over whom they have no jurisdiction , nor condemn the judgment of the church , who has jurisdiction over them . and hereupon we both agreed in this collaterall observation , that if all modern controvertists would restrain their disputes to positions generally received as of faith in the church , of which they are members , attending only to her expressions , and not to the termes of particular writers , the differences amongst christians , so fatall to the peace of europe , would be both lesse numerous , and far more reconcileable . whether papists be guilty of idolatry in the eucharist . before we could proceed to the second part of this question , the recusant upon some occasions was obliged to go into the countrey , whence he sent me this following paper . since it is concluded between us , that probability exempts from persecution , i shall endeavour to prove that the reall presence of our saviour in the eucharist , is at least a probable opinion ; and in order thereunto , cite the most expresse and direct termes of the holy scripture , as first the promise of our saviour , john . . . the bread that i will give is my flesh , which i will give for the life of the world , and verse . my flesh is meat indeed , and my bloud is drink indeed . secondly , the performance of that promise , in the words of institution , take eat , this is my body ; punctually repeated by the other three evangelists , mat. . . mar. . . luke . . and thirdly , the places declaring the use of this sacrament in the apostles time , cor. . . the cup of blessing which we blesse , is it not the communion of the blood of christ ? and the bread which we break is it not the participation of the body of the lord ? cor. . . he that eateth and drinketh unworthily , eateth and drinketh damnation to himself , not discerning the lords body . thus the great apostle s. paul , and all the foure evangelists unanimously teach the doctrine of the reall presence , and not one single place produceable that in direct termes calls the eucharist , a signe or figure of christs body , notwithstanding the maintainers thereof admit no proof as authenticall but the precise text of scripture , yet in this so important controversie they flie to logicall inferences and philosophicall discourses , and so make their own reason the judge , and not the word of god , rendring by their now and private interpretations this great sacrament inferior in dignity , not only to the paschall lamb , a type of christ , but even to manna , which was but a figure of this very mystery . surely if we shal add to so many & evident texts of scripture , the constant iudgment of the fathers , and the universall practice of the whole christian world for above a thousand years ( since so long is acknowledged the absolute reigne of our religion ) we may safely conclude the doctrine of our saviours presence in the eucharist to be at least probable , and consequently catholikes in no wise accusable of rashnesse or obstinacy , in believing a position so efficaciously recommended unto them . but admitting the doctrine of non-reality to be true , ( said the letter of the recusant ) yet ought not catholikes to be iudged guilty of the sin of idolatry , because their adoration is not intentionally directed to any creature , but to the person of christ our lord : and if he be not there , their worship is mistaken in the place , not in the obiect , and therefore at most an error of fact , and no formall idolatry , which no temperate judge will impute unto sin , much lesse our mercifull redeemer , who came to save , not to destroy , who accepts of the good meaning of his servants , though mingled with humane infirmities , as when abimelech mis-took sara from her husband , being informed by abraham that she was his sister , the sincere and conscientious king received absolution from god himself , upon this account , that he did it ( saith the text ) in the simplicity of his heart , gen. . . which seems an expresse and infallible decision of this controversie , that men may be unhappy by being deceived , but are not guilty , unlesse they deceive themselves . this kind of reasoning prevailed somewhat the more with me , because the apology of the reformed churches of france , expressely approves it ; saying , if an apostle had by mistake adored some other man resembling christ , when he lived on earth , his error would have excused him , daillé chap. . as on the other side , mary magdalens not adoring christ , when he appeared to her in the habit of a gardener , john . . was never accused as a defect of devotion ; wherefore since the papists all professe not to terminate their adoration in the species of bread and wine , nor any other creature , but in the blessed person of our lord , i conclude them erroneous in their doctrine , but not idolatrous in their practise , to be pitied as souls misled , not persecuted as malicious . nor can i satisfie my conscience , since as to this point the opinion of the papists is no more opposite to us , then that of the lutherans , why we should freely allow communion to these even of spirituall things , and in the mean while not afford them so much as the liberty to possesse their own temporall goods . the lutherans believe our saviour to be as really in the eucharist , as he was upon the crosse , but do not adore him ; the papists both believe and adore ; for my part , i should clearly , either do both , or neither , at least i shall never be brought to this partiality , to cherish the one as brethren , and persecute the other as enemies ; especially when i consider the christian proceedings of the protestants in new-england , virginia , and the other plantations in the indies , where we abhor to destroy the natives , though confessedly idolaters , but rather strive to convert them , by holding out the truth in love . whether papists are inconsistent with civill government . by the next post i received from the same hand another letter concerning the common objection , that papists hold many principles destructive to civill society ; wherein the recusant protesting first solemnly , as in the sight of god and his holy angells , to use all ingenuity and candor in his relation of the catholike doctrine , earnestly intreated me to give credit to his report in the matters of fact , and for the right , to judge freely , as i saw cause . we will divide ( sayes he ) the main question into two points , as it relates either to our equalls , or superiours : for the first touching commerce and conversation , we absolutely disclaim that scandalous opinion , that no faith is to kept with heretikes , and flatly deny , that our engagement , promise , or contract , may lawfully be broken by our selves , or dispensed with by any power on earth , to the prejudice of a third person , of what religion soever , and for equivocation , mentall reservation , &c. i am confident , though i have not here any oportunity to look into books , that no generall councell mentions either any such word , or any such thing ; schoolmen indeed frequently dispute such subtilties , which by men of different principles and affections in religion are easily misunderstood , and often perverted , but amongst catholiques every one has liberty to deny them as he pleases , without any prejudice to faith : and though those speculations generally deserve encouragement , yet when they arrive at a certain degree of nicenesse , they rather become an innocent curiosity , then profitable euployment , and in such an infinity of opinions , as catholike writers have leisure to publish , it is impossible , but that thorough passion , unwarinesse , or humane frailty , some mistakes must escape , and then the unhappinesse is , that prejudiced and captious readers applying their whole study to find faults , forget the good and wholesome notions they meet , and remember nothing but the errors . as to the second branch concerning our duty to magistrates , we deny , sayes the letter , any earthly power can dispense with our civill obedience , and acknowledge our selves bound , not only by the law of nature , but by the expresse word of god , to render unto caesar the things that are caesars , to be subject not only for feare , but conscience sake ; what christian prince or state is there in the world , whom the subjects serve with more fidelity then the spaniard , french , and italian , all catholike dominions ? and particularly in england , where we are some of paul , and some of apollo , and some of cephas , what comparison is there betwixt the behaviour of catholikes , towards h. . edw. . and eliz. and the fury of lutherans and calvinists in germany , and indeed wheresoever they are discontented ; yet there is a vast difference , as to government , between these two cases , to oppose by force the introduce men of innovations , by which the peace must needs be endangered , and to attempt by force the extinguishment of an ancient religion , whereof the people are universally in quiet and immemoriall possession , the one drives others out of possession , the other maintains himself in , the one invades his neighbours rights , the other defends his own . how many modern experiences ( the easiest argument to be understood , and surest to be relied on ) clearly resolve this question ; if we but consider the union of hearts , and common interests of state , between the protestant and catholike cantons of switzerland , where very many churches serve by turns upon the same day , for the exercise of both religions , dividing every sunday morning into two parts , and assigning to each about three hours for their devotions , wherein they are so punctuall to maintain equality , that if the protestants have the first three hours one morning , next week they are to have the last ; and this they continually practise , without enterfering or offending one another . to this so pregnant example ( sufficient of it selfe to cleare the consistency of those two religions ) i shall further add their fair comportment one towards another , in many provinces , and free towns in germany ; but most remarkable is their friendly and peaceable living together in holland , even during so long and dangerous wars with spain ; spain the chief protector of the catholique faith ; spain the most zealous propagator of the pontificiall authority , to whose dominion , if the united provinces should again return , certainly the catholikes there might prudently promise to themselves all possible advantages ; yet notwithstanding so great occasion of jealousie , the states ( then whom none are more vigilant over their true interest ) have not only with security , but exceeding benefit to their common-wealth , tolerated the catholikes of quiet conversation , to live freely amongst them . and on the other side the catholikes , in gratitude for so favourable a treating , have exactly corresponded to the mercy of their magistrates , with a most constant , sincere , and faithfull obedience . to none of these suspitions are the recusants of england in the least measure obnoxious , because whatever change of government can happen , they must expect but a milder degree of disaffection towards them , at most a sufferance , no incouragement , or particular confidence ; and infallibly , if the rigour of the laws ( made upon far different motives which are now no waies pressing ) were qualified to a temper of mercy , that the catholikes might enjoy but half the liberties to which they were born , they would be the most quiet and usefull subjects of england , since their religion obliges them to obey the lawfull commands of their superiours , not only for fear , but conscience . nor did ever the very worst of them stir in any sedition at a time when they were admitted to but half the common rights of english-men , nor were they many that ever attempted their own relief by endangering their countreys peace , all the rest sitting quietly and patiently under the burthens which the heavy hand of those times continually heapt upon them . now that the crimes ( though never so hainous ) of a few discontented and desperate spirits , should be imputed to their religion , whose principles expressely condemn such conspiracies , seems extremely rigorous ; but when to those dishonorable imputations are joyned intolerable penalties , both upon our lives and estates , and not only against the then living catholikes , but all their posterity to this very day , surely it must needs appear the most harsh and severe proceeding that ever was practised in the world : wherefore i shall close this second letter with my humble prayers to the gracious redeemer of our souls , that you would cease to impute all our faults to our religion , and we begin to commit no other fault but our religion , so should we happily overcome our own infirmities , and fully satisfie your jealousies . when i had well perused this gentlemans discourse , and attentively read his letters , i must freely confesse , i could not have believed that either the papists had suffered so much from us , or been able to say so much for themselves , i doe not mean in order to prove the truth of their religion , but the unreasonablenesse of our persecution ; since really to my understanding our jealousies of their obedience seem as unnecessary unto us , as prejudiciall to them ; for i am confident there is no religion in the world , but by good laws against breach of peace , and due execution of them , may be made consistent with any kingdome or common-wealth whatsoever ; who more opposite in belief then christians , jewes , and turks , yet we see by experience that jews are not inconsistent with the government of christians , nor christians with that of the turks , no not such christians as are here in question , papists ; as concerning the doctrine we charge upon them , of the popes power over supreme magistrates , i had the fortune some few years since , to meet with a paper that clearly answered all my difficulties , wherein were written the negative subscriptions of many english recusants against these three following propositions , as no part of their faith or religion , the subscribers being both in number and quality sufficient to represent the whole body of them in this nation . . that the pope or church hath power to absolve any person or persons from their obedience to the civill and politicall government establisht , or to be establisht in this nation in civil and politicall affairs . . that by the command or dispensation of the pope or church , it is lawfull to kill , destroy , or do any injury to any person or persons living within the kings dominions , because that such a person or persons are accused , condemned , censured , or excommunicated for errour , schisme , or heresie . . that it is lawfull in it self , or by dispensation from the pope , to break promise or oath made to any of the foresaid persons , under pretence that they are heretiques . these they utterly disclaim , and renounce as no part of their belief , professing under their hands their readinesse to abjure ( if the state should so require ) the practise and execution of them all , which gave me so much the more satisfaction , by how much it was besides my expectation , nor have i now any thing to say against them upon that account . and indeed if we consider these differences between us impartially , our suspitions are not only confuted , but shamed by our own daily experience , for we trust papists in all negotiations , as indifferently as protestants , nay even our travellers and merchants beyond seas ( where the papists are masters ) converse and traffique securely with them , and yet i never heard the least complaint of any one single protestant's being cheated by them , upon pretence of exemption or dispensation , and therefore since they practise not that part , which may sometimes be profitable , i cannot think they hold to no purpose , that which is alwaies prejudiciall . for my small experience in the world , all the objection that ever i heard of against the credit of our papists , was their being disabled by sequestrations to pay their debts , not taught by their religion to deceive the creditors . if their doctrines were so destructive to civill society , as our accusations pretend , how comes it to passe that all our fundamentall laws were enacted by them , who invested the supreme authority of this nation with so honourable priviledges , and yet provided so prudently for the just security of the people , against the unjust inc●oachments of prerogative ? from whom have all those excellent customes and statutes of this nation descended upon us ? is it possible we should derive all the ancient priviledges of parliament ; and liberties of the subject contained in magna charta , &c. from the times their religion governed the land , and yet say now their religion is inconsistent with the government of the land ? as it is very true , that sometimes the popes power here was abused to support a temporall interest , so it is evident to those that know history , that his mediation has been often available , both for the preventing and reconciling of our differences , as well with our neighbouring kingdomes , as amongst our selves . nor is it possible that any modell of government should be absolutely proof against all exceptions , but in the experience of five or six hundred years some abuses wil certainly happen ; whence it is easie for a severe observer to gather objections enough to puzzle the most able and politique statist in the world to answer , especially if they be managed with dexterity and eloquence amongst a half-witted and stubborn people , who neither can guide themselves , nor will be led by others , not blind enough to be ignorant , where they are , and yet too short-sighted to see whether they go ; unhappy chiefly in this , that they are tender in the sense of any present evill , and wholly incapable of foreseeing the destruction that followes their impatience . hear what is charitably said of papists in the foresaid examination of the late synods confession of faith ( page . ) the papists believe in the same god with the protestants , even in the father , the son , and the holy ghost , though they differ in some articles , or branches of articles of their belief , and in their way of worship ; yea some of the papists are regenerate , conscientious , and vertuous persons . wherefore ( i humbly conceive ) our magistrates and ministers ought sincerely to enquire into the truth of things , and make a conscience of judging or preaching otherwise then secundum probata , and not upon bare jealousies , or the blind opinion of the vulgar condemn any free-born member of this nation farther then he shall be proved to be guilty : nor do i believe it reasonable , to charge every unjustifiable action of particular papists , or extravagant opinion of any private writer amongst them , upon the whole body of their religion ; the decrees of their councells , they professe to be the only absolute declarers of their faith , amongst whose determinations there are faults enough , which they strive to defend , no need of imposing upon them errors , which they flatly deny ▪ let us lay our hands upon our own hearts , we our selves want not our capriches and exorbitant conceits , which ough● not to be imputed to the whole reformed religion , but to the imperfection of humane nature , easily deceived with the colour of truth , and passionately in love with it's owne invention . besides instead of jealousies and dangers , i cannot see but great security and advantages would accrue to this nation , by treating in mercy all peaceable papists ; the pope would be deprived of that specious pretext of relieving his distressed flock ; the princes and states of that religion , would for honour as well as conscience , upon all occasions , expresse their satisfaction to see them mercifully used , whom for their profession they account brethren , and for their sufferings , martyrs . the protestants in other countreys would be more assured of the freedome they injoy , and more hopefull of obtaining new encreases of their liberty ; the papists of england would be bound by their own interest ( the strongest obligation amongst wisemen ) to live peaceably and thankfully in the private exercise of their consciences , and , becoming gainers by such compassion , could not so reasonably be distrusted , as the prelaticall or presbyterian party , who must needs reckon themselves no small losers , in that the reines of authority are taken out of their hands , which they had by turns abused into meer whips for their brethren . of the one we have had too long experience in their high commission , especially since its power was overgrown by the conspiracy of the starchamber ; a court , where fines were imposed not according to the quality of the offences , but of the judges , who thought it below their honour to punish under thousands of pounds for every peccadillo . of the other , though our tryall has been but short , yet it was very smart , and lives still in the memory of england , which is every day refresht by the present practise of scotland , where the kirk has condemn'd all that differ in the least tittle from her humor , crying anathema maranatha upon all the congregations of the saints , as appears by their synodicall act , set forth in jan. . and sent to their brethren in edenburgh , where , having first called our wayes abominations , and our selves a perverse generation , and branded those few honest scots , who suffered themselves to be undeceived by the reasons and civility of our army , with the infamous name of apostates , they proceed to the most bitter , malicious , and scandalous words that an inraged scot can utter , speaking thus to their party . we exhort you , and by all the power over you : we have in the lord , require you , carefully to avoid all familiar converse of every degree , above all , that you beware to joyne with them ( those that adhere to the parliament of england ) in any publike or private exercise of religion , those who will adventure to touch pitch , may be defiled before they be aware , those who will not abstain from the harlots house , shall not be innocent ▪ take heed ( dearly beloved ) of them that are led by the subtilty and depth of the divell , and among all his instruments , we intreat you to avoid none more then these miserable apostates of our own nation , for we conceive none more sitted to work mischiefe among you then this sort of men : and in their motives or grounds for a fast in june . their expressions against us are no lesse bitter : see how their zeal boyles , while they are but a kindling , while we choke the fuell in its owne smoke , how will their fury run over , when the fire shall by any successe be raised into a flame ! how will they drowne the whole countrey in an inuadation of more then antichristian slavery ! but because i perceived by a passage in the recusants discourse , that nothing lay more heavy upon them then the new oath of abjuration made by the presbyterian party in the beginning of the late troubles ; i shall adventure humbly to move some queres thereupon , transcribing first a true copy of the oath it selfe . j. a. b. do abjure and renounce the popes supremacy and authority over the catholike church in generall , and over my self in particular , and i do believe that there is not any transubstantiation in the sacrament of the lords supper , or in the elements of bread and wine after consecration thereof , by any person whatsoever ; and i do believe that there is not any purgatory ; and that the consecrated host , crucifixes or images ought not to be worshipped , neither that any worship is due unto them ; and i also believe that salvation cannot be merited by works , and all doctrines in affirmation of the said points , i do abjure and renounce without any aequivocation ; mentall reservation , or secret evasion whatsoever , taking the words by me spoken , according to the common and usuall meaning of them , so help me god . . whether this oath do not flatly contradict the known laws of the land , by enforcing a free-born english-man to accuse himself ▪ with so strong and dangerous a temptation to perjury , where the choice is only this , either forswear your religion , or ruine your estate ; a severity that far exceeds the tyranny of the prelates , whose indignation stayed it self upon the exteriour non-conformity ; whereas this passes on to constrain the inward belief of the mind , which god ( the searcher of all hearts ) hath reserved to himself , and all this , in questions no waies concerning either idolatry , or the security of the state ; as purgatory , and the doctrine of merits , for that conscience that is not wide enough to swallow all the oath , how great soever the part is that he can digest , it will do him no good . . this oath being wholly negative , and no positive articles establisht by the parliament , to be proposed to all as the touchstone of faith , whether it be conscientious to oblige the papist to swear away his own religion , before we have provided another for him ? . whether it be conscientious or reasonable for us to enforce this oath on the papists , since we have many godly persons of our own party , who will not take it , and others who will not swear at all : hear what is said in the examination of the before mentioned synodicall confession , page . there is a greater restraint laid upon us now then in the old testament , mat. . . james . . which hath made some to shun oaths , though called to swear by the magistrate in matters lawfull . and again , that it is a sin in those , who impose unnecessary , subtill and ensnaring oaths , zach. . . . there is a curse gone out against swearers , as well as against thieves , because of needlesse swearing , as well as false swearing , a land is made to mourn , jer. . . . since all these negatives are not clearly set down in scripture , as fundamental paints of christian faith , but deduced from passages , to which the answers are believed as probable by them , as the arguments by us , why should we so cruelly persecute one another for doctrines ; that are either obscurely revealed , or not necessarily enjoyned . . how shall we defend the oath against this objection , that any jew , turk or infidell may take it lawfully , according to their principles , nay will delight to swear against so many points of that church , which ( by reason of their confining territories ) mainly opposes them ; nor have we any law at all ( to my knowledge ) for which jew , turk , heathen , or the most grosse heathenish idolator is sequestrable , nor any penall oath against the most extravagant blasphemies , that a loose wit can imagine , and a prophane tongue utter , as ranters , antitrinitarians , and the like ? what can be more destructive to the very foundation of christianity , then the prophane and scandalous blasphemies of mr. fry , a late member of parliament , who publikely in print , not only denies , but decides that supreme mystery of christian religion , the sacred trinity , calling it a chaffy and absurd opinion , &c. yet the mercy of the parliament contented it self with a moderate and favourable punishment , excluding him only from sitting amongst them ; and if his dignity and publique character had not rendred him obnoxious to the crime of scandall , he might perhaps have remained as free from trouble , as all the rest of his opinion do , who never yet have suffered the least molestation for the greatest exorbitances that can be devised . in particular at the quarter sessions at westminster , on the . of june . there wered five ranters convented before colonell baxter , and other justices , and sufficient proof , that they had maintained that one robins a glazier was a prophet , and that his wife was with child of the messias , with such other blasphemous stuff ; but four of these , not then absolutely asserting these opinions , nor yet denying them , but evading the severall questions demanded of them by the bench , were discharged , the fifth was committed ( as he well deserved ) not for his opinions , but for calling the justices traytors , &c. on the same day a gentle-woman great with child , and some others , were also convented , for a supposed hearing of masse , on the day commonly called christmas day . at the then french agents in long acre , and though there was no direct proof that they were at masse , but at mattins or prayers before masse , yet colonell baxter did maintain against some other of the justices , that mattins and masse was all one , and so the gentlewoman and the rest were fined one hundred marks a piece , and sent to prison , according to the rigour of the statute in that behalfe formerly made , the severity of which last proceeding , and the partiality of the first , needs no comment . why must the papist be thus singled out from all the rest , and peremptorily forc't to this hard choice , of either forfeiting his estate , or forsaking his conscience ? if we fear their encrease , we overvalue their religion , if we doubt their disturbing us , we undervalue our own strength , abundantly sufficient are the means which god has put into our hands , to secure our selves from a few disarm'd papists , abundantly sufficient were this only provision , to exclude them from offices of importance , and execute severe punishment upon such as should actually attempt any thing to the discomposure of the state . nor can such gentlenesse and moderation towards quiet recusants , be justly accounted a toleration of them , because ( i conceive ) that word signifies an absolute equality in all civill respects , betwixt subjects of different judgements in religion , else the present sufferings of papists , paying their two thirds , might by the same frowardnesse be accused as a toleration ; whereas the penalties indeed are altogether intolerable : not to inflict the utmost severity of punishment , is not presently to be reputed an allowance of the crime , god himself suffers all the sins we commit , but approves none of them ; we our selves daily permit mischiefs to avoid in conveniences , and for that reason we prohibit not masse in the houses of ambassadors , nor pnnish usury , though the statute it self . eliz. . brands it with the name of vice , and most divines hold it a detestable sin , expressely forbidden by the law of god . a conscientious way of setling religion proposed . in the same place where god commands children to obey their parents , he forbids parents to provoke their children , ephes. . and where he exacts fidelity in servants , he likewise requires moderation in masters , nay more , the text includes even bondmen and slaves , enjoyning the masters to forbear threatning , knowing that their master also is in heaven , neither is there respect of persons with him : thus clearly doth the word of god condemn as well harshnesse and cruelty in governours , as stubbornnesse and treachery in subjects ; so that there is also a tendernesse of conscience requisite on the magistrates part , to proceed sincerely and purely for the good of the people , that he may truely say with the apostle , i seek not yours , but you , cor. . . and again verse . did i make a gain of you , by any of them whom i sent unto you ? in which two lines we are plainly advertised of the chiefe danger which superiours ought carefully to avoid , that neither themselves , nor their under-officers make a profit of mens consciences concerning matters of religion . since therefore the only tolerable designe of the corrector in such cases is the benefit of the sufferer , it necessarily follows , that before we can with the least colour of justice inflict a penalty upon any different profession , we ought to use all means possible to recover them to truth , and therefore our first work should be to collect a body of positive articles , evidently contained in gods word , and absolutely necessary to mans salvation ; it being very improper , to pen the publike form of faith in the negative , because my believing christian truths makes me a christian , and not my disbelieving the errors that oppose it , else he that believes nothing at all would be the best christian . in order to which collection , the most religious way is , that every one that will modestly , may safely propose and discusse those difficulties he meets with in gods word , and if after all possible diligences of study , meditation and prayer , no satisfaction or union follow in any point , it is an evident sign the question is either obscure or unnecessary , and then provide for the peace of the common-wealth , and submit the rest to the pleasure of god . when we have agreed upon a summary of belief , according to these three conditions positive , evident , and fundamental , ( with which the creed , commonly call'd the apostles , suits best of any i ever saw ) then ought the magistrates hold forth in the spirit of love and meeknesse , those so clear and important verities , and if any shall be found dissenting ( which i am confident will be very few ) let us follow the apostles rule in punishing , a gentle one it is indeed , but powerfull , thes. . . withdraw from such a one , that he may be ashamed , and verse . esteem him not an enemy , but correct him as a brother , at worst , rebuke him sharply , tit. . . and after the first and second admonition reject him , tit. . . that is , leave him to the hardnesse of his heart : if his conscience grow tender , it will check ; if obdutate , he will soon break out into lewdnesse ; and then be justly punishable by the law , as other criminall malefactors ; only we must be carefull not to anticipate his condemnation before he be legally convinced of some actuall offence against the publique repose . if we suspect the disaffection of any party , as the papists , let us first make it their interest to love their countrey by treating them at least mercifully in it , and then we shall have a fair tryall of their fidelity ; i do not know one example , where , to a prince or state that used them well , they have shown themselves ungratefull . and though it be the duty of every christian to love his enemy , and do good to those that persecute him , yet surely it is a hard saying , and the most sincere professors of any religion whatsoever find difficulty enough to observe it , even protestants as well as papists know how to fall out with those magistrates that oppresse them , else how shall we excuse the civill wars of france , germany , holland , &c. if we have not recourse to the harsh usage of their superiours ; nor need we seek the reason of these disorders amongst the articles of any parties religion , when by the instinct of nature , not only man , but even the most triviall creature that seems to have no interest in the world , attends with diligence to the preservation of it self : who can blame the humble worm , that whil●st we walk fairly by , it prostrates it selfe before us , and lowly creeps upon the ground , if when we tread upon it , it lift its head , and strive to wring it self from under our cruell feet ? notable to this purpose is the old example of the privernates , an ancient people of italy , who having rebell'd against the common-wealth of rome , and being almost quite reduced by force of armes , they dispatch their embassadors for terms of peace ; the senat sternly ask them , what new peace they could expect , who had so insolently infringed the old ? to which they stoutly answered , we must now take such conditions as you please to give ; if they be moderate , you shall find us faithfull , if too heavy , we shall observe them only till we may safely break them ; which free and generous expression induced that wise senate to assign them their own demands . this so full and pregnant instance i humbly offer , as most worthy the imitation of our english senate , that even to recusants , who ingage to live innocently and quietly amongst us , such reasonable conditions of subsistence may be allowed ( since they are equally with our selves born to the freedome of this nation ) as their consciences be not violated , their spirits embittered , nor humane infirmity tempted to despair ; let us rather incourage them to come to our meetings , and freely propose their difficulties , which now they dare not , for fear of discovering their judgements , to the ruine of their estates ; let us use the same gentlenesse here in england , that his excellency the lord generall practises in scotland , towards those that are not only otherwise minded in religion , but contrary minded in civill concernments , and actually in arms to maintain their opposition : he invites them to conferences , and himself with admirable temper and moderation manages the discourse , allowing free liberty of reply to the adverse party , without passion , bitternesse or threatning , and though he find not the event answerable to his endeavours , remaines at least satisfied in his conscience , by having given a reason of his actions ; and whom can we better imitate , then so great an instrument of the liberty we all enjoy ? or wherein can we follow him with so much praise both of god and man , as in the mildnesse of his spirit , by which he conquers more powerfully , then by the sharpnesse of his sword ? have not the papists understandings as well as we , which our arguments may rectifie ? have they not souls to save , which our charity may gain to heaven ? why do we not erect a committee to purchase souls , as we have contracters to sell lands ? why is there not establisht a committee of salvation , as wel as of indempnity , where the questions of religion may be freely discust , and the distresses of tender and innocent consciences impartially relieved ? if men dealt mildly , and only by the gospell way of perswasion , surely there would in time grow society , commerce , and mutuall confidence , and so frequent oportunities of clearer information : when once all jealousies and misunderstandings of one another shall be laid aside , the differences amongst christians will soon be reconciled , if not to an absolute and precise unity of faith and doctrine , yet at least to a blessed union of peace and love . oh how much better and more admirably divine is the gentle method of the christian , how to propagate it self in plain evidence of the spirit , then the unnaturall turkish cruelty , of taking children from their parents ! or the unworthy machiavillian policy of taking the inheritance from the children ! or lastly , which is , worse then either , the barbarous heathenish tyranny of shedding bloud , and tearing limb from limb meerly upon the account of religion . nor can i find any satisfaction in that shuffling and hypocriticall distinction , invented by the lawyers to deceive the common people , whose simplicity and innocency they easily beguile , by pretending that none are executed for religion , but for offending against the laws ? what can be more palpably false , or divellishly malicious then this ? who does not see but by this rule those bloudy tyrants , nero , dioclesian , and the rest of the ten infamous persecuters , must be canonized for good and conscientious justicers , because they judged according to law ? who does not see that by this rule those glorious martyrs , who watered the christian faith with their precious bloud , must be accounted traytors , because they suffered according to law ? nay even the cursed jews , who crucified our blessed saviour , impiously alledged the self same reason for themselves , we have a law , and by our law he ought to die , john . . nor can i forbear to professe how extremely unwelcome that scurvy news was to me , of one wright a jesuite , being drawn to tiburn as a traytor upon a hurdle for his religion , on the . of may . because i had so often commended the moderation of the present authority , as having never spilt one drop of bloud for religion : and though the sequestrations of all peaceable recusants ▪ were flatly against our maximes , yet the pressing necessities of the state , and their purpose ( which i alwaies believed ) of taking away all penalties upon the conscience , after a short time , when the government should be a little better setled ) exceedingly qualified the harshnesse of those pecuniary severities ; but now with grief i must lay down my arms , and with shame revoke all my arguments which i have hitherto used , to lessen the injustice of our sequestring for conscience , and pacifie the ruines of many well-affected and religious persons , who highly disliked even that soul-money , as king james used to call it , wherein as i have had no small successe : so now i cannot with a safe conscience endeavour any more , least i should cooperate to deceive the people ; sequestrations i confesse did shrewdly crack , but this killing has broken quite in pieces all our principles . against what have we principally fought all this while , but coercency in religion ? for what have we made so many tedious marches and declarations , but liberty of tender consciences ? is this to hold forth the truth in love ? is this to instruct in meeknesse , as becomes the servants of the lord ? let us take heed how we fall into the hands of the living god , let us alwaies remember that voice speaking within us , they shall be judged without mercy , that have shewed no mercy . besides the sharpnesse of the sentence , the very tryall ( as i am informed ) had many singular and unusuall passages , as that nothing was proved against the prisoner , but that a great many years ago he had said masse in flanders , and this only by one witnesse , and one who in open sessions profest a particular pique and quarrell towards him , alledging an old grudge as one of the reasons why he came up out of the countrey to swear against him , no disturbance of the publique repose , nor so much as the least breach of peace laid to his charge , but only his being a priest , and in england : and that this was his only crime , is unquestionably clear by the ministers charitable offer at the gallows , that there was yet time enough for him to save his life , if he would renounce his religion , and become a protestant ; which he resolutely denying , as against his conscience , was first hanged amongst the thieves and murderers , and then quartered as a traytor ; and yet both sheriff , jury , judge , and every one that cooperated to the execution ; all seriously professe , that nothing is so dear to them , nothing so reasonable in it self , as incoercency in matters concerning the salvation of our souls . i pray god we be not too guilty of having a form of godlinesse , but denying the power thereof . i pray god these severe and ungospellary proceedings ( especially this last of bloud , so displeasing to the spectators , and unprofitable to the authors ) become not in time a prejudice to our brethren beyond the seas , a discontenting of our friends at home , and a scandall to all the world ; for that very day of the priests execution i o'reheard a nimble witted man say these very words , since we are come to this passe that we can fight against the covenant for reformation of the kirk , sequester men for recusants , and continue their sequestrations , whether they continue their recusancy or no , make a close peace with spain , and openly hang up jesuits , sit anima mea cum philosophis . surely it were far better to let the papists for a while practise their kind of christianity , then upon a suddain deprive them of the only religion to which they are accustomed , and so indanger the driving of them to atheisme , instead of reducing them to protestancy . besides how easily may the like severity be exercised against our selves , if any power dis-affected to godlinesse should gain authority over us ? it is but straining the word recusant a little above the common note , it is but making our holy conferences treason by statute , and then all the precious saints and dearest servants of the lord , may be hang'd , drawn and quartered by law , and yet at the same time our executioners may professe ( as seriously as we now seem to do ) liberty of conscience ; only they will think it reasonable to their own interpreters , and consequently intend by this charming sound of liberty , an absolute and uncontroulable freedom indeed , but to be enjoyed by none but themselves . how do the papists themselves in france outgo us in their tender and moderate behaviour towards the protestants of their countrey , notwithstanding former provocations to jealousie in the last civill warrs ? nay notwithstanding present provocations by our severity against all of their profession in england , they dispute openly and frequently together , not only the clergy , but tradesmen one with another : at many of which conferences i have been present in paris , where every one freely defended his own opinion , so civilly and peaceably , that i never returned from the place of those discourses , without exceeding comfort and satisfaction , thinking often with my self , it were a fashion as worthy to be transpoorted into england , as any our gallants bring from thence . at the end of the dispute , ( which is not upon any solemn challenge , but casuall , though very often ) if either party seem unsatisfied , his liberty is inviolably preserved , without seizing upon a penny of his estate ( which there is accounted but a politique covetousnesse ) or touching so much as a hair of his head , ( not to speak of spilling his blood for a different opinion ) which they detest as a most abominable cruelty , but with a courteous friendlinesse and mutuall compassion , part in as perfect charity as they met , each hoping and praying for the others conversion : in the mean while the king allows a certain number of publike churches to protestants , and as much liberty in private for the exercise of their consciences , as any disagreers from the common belief of the state can reasonably desire . nay , even the spanish inquisition ( so universally abhor'd ) practises all imaginable means towards the accused , to reduce his judgement to theirs , before they pronounce theirs against him , and upon conformity immediately acquit him ; whereas our conscience-sequestrations are laid on , without any disputing ; and hardly taken off , upon never so much conforming ; which very thing i have heard some presbyterians object to us , though themselves made the abjuring oath on purpose to pinch the papist , yet they said it was intended only for times of war , when all other waies , either of convincing by reasons , or convicting by law were obstructed . and , proceeding upon the same subject ; they alledged divers papists by name , who have not only gone to church , but taken both the communion , oath of abjuration , and engagement ; and all this undeniably proved by sufficient testimony , yet after solemn debate upon their petitions in haberdashers hall to be no longer punisht , since they were no longer guilty , the commissioners declared that it was not express'd in any act or instructions from the present parliament , what should amount unto , or be adjudged by them to be a conformity ; and therefore they continue the sequestrations as formerly , notwithstanding such conformity as aforesaid ; in particular , on wednesday the second of july ● . it was the case ( saies my presbyterian friend ) of one smith , a suspected papist ; who had lands in the soke of winchester sequestred ; upon his appeal at haberdashers hall , he produced sufficient proof that he had been severall lords daies at church , and had twice taken the oath of abjuration , but one of the commissioners made answer that this was not enough , he must also take the communion , otherwise must continue sequestred as a papist : wherto smiths councell replied , that if it were a mark of papists not to have received the communion , we are ( said he ) all papists in our parish , for we have had no communion in our church these four years : and 't is very probable that that very commissioner who made this objection , hath not of late , and perhaps will not receive the communion , in manner as is prescribed by the statute ; and certainly it is a very sad case for us to force others , under so great a penalty , as the sequestration of their estates , to do that which we will not do our selves : all the relief and hopes , that smith and others in his condition ( who have both gone to church , and taken the communion and oath of abjuration ) have received at the said hall , is , that the said commissioners have promised to move the parliament , to know what shall amount unto a conformity ; and it might also be desired to know what religion the papists ( in case they be forc'd to leave their own ) shall conform unto , since we have three severall religions , that at present seem to have an equall power or influence : the prelaticall or old protestant ( as some call it ) is establisht by law ; the presbyterian carries the vogue in the pulpit ; but the independent has the power and countenance of the state . certainly the abovesaid strange proceedings must needs appear , both to all the reformed churches abroad , and to very many conscientious people at home , as savouring of a design to make sure of the papists estates , whatsoever becomes of their souls . and all this while we hold forth meeknesse , and all this while we cry up liberty of conscience ! is it possible we should so far forget our principles , as to seize the estates of our neighbours and kindred for religion , and at the same time professe to venture all our own to purchase freedom of religion ? is it possible we should expose our own lives in so long and dangerous a war , to establish and secure liberty of conscience ; and at the same instant of time , hang , draw , and quarter men for their consciences ? how shall we answer at the day of judgement our shedding so much bloud to deliver our countrey from coercency in matters of belief , if as soon as the power is in our hands we emb●…e them in the bloud of our countreymen meerly for their religion ; have we so soon forgot those sharp reproofs of the apostle , rom. . behold you are called jews and rest in the law , and make your boast of god , you know his will , and approve the things that are more excellent , you are confident that your selves are guides of the blind , and lights to them which are in darknesse , instructers of the foolish , and teachers of babes , who have the form of knowledge and of truth in the law ; you therefore , who teach another , teach you not your selves ? you that preach a man should not steale , do you steale ? you that abhor idols do you commit sacriledge ? in the day when god shall judge the secrets of men by jesus christ : how can we answer that excellent and self-evident precept of nature , do as you would be done unto ? god is not mocked , he promises indeed , that the meek shall inherit the land , but surely means not such as seem meek only to inherit the land . thus sharly went on my angry presbyterian , and i confesse i was extremely ashamed to hear him say so much reason , that used to speak nothing but passion , and to see my self so confounded by one , that i have alwaies overcome with ease upon any other subject , and should have liked far better his observations ( which with grief i acknowledge to be too true and open to all the world ) if they had come from an indifferent and unfactious spirit , because i suspect they may perhaps proceed rather from envy towards the gainers , then pitty upon the losers : for during the violent , and therefore short , dominion of the presbyterians , never were more cruell torturers of the conscience , then they , never a more tyrannicall tribunall then their jure divine assembly , and classicall high commission , but the hand of the lord stopt them in their full career , and by wofull experience they now find the truth of gods threatnings , if you bite and devoure one another , take heed you be not consumed one of another , gal. . . wherefore it shall be my daily prayer to our great and good god , that he would graciously inspire his servants , who now sit at the helm , to prevent the like heavy judgements upon themselves ; and seriously considering that both their allegiance to reason , their duty to god , their engagement to their own principles , call so loudly upon them , they would fulfill now our joy , and compleat the good work so happily begun , by putting the tender-conscienced and peaceable-minded people of this nation into a condition of perfect security for matters of religion , which cannot be effected without a generall act of conscience-indemnity , firmly to be establisht as a fundamentall and unalterable law of the land , for all that professe the gospell of christ . finis . postscript . since there is scarce one whom something in these few sheets will not please , nor very many whom something will not displease , they therefore freely submit themselves , not only to the judgement of the civill magistrate , but of every civill man ; and i have ( according to the order of parliament ) hereunto subscribed my name , william birchley . to the king's most excellent majesty, the humble address of the presbyterian ministers in his majesties kingdom of scotland proceedings. - - . church of scotland. general assembly. approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page image. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing t estc r this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) to the king's most excellent majesty, the humble address of the presbyterian ministers in his majesties kingdom of scotland proceedings. - - . church of scotland. general assembly. james ii, king of england, - . sheet ([ ] p.) printed by james watson, printer to his most excellent majesties royal family and houshold, holy-rood-house [edinburgh] : . at head of text: at edinburgh the twenty first day of july, in the year . a petition thanking king james ii for the declaration of indulgence issued in february . copy annotated above text in ms.: "this is printed by the papist watson of the abbey". reproduction of the original in the harvard university library. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng england and wales. -- sovereign ( - : james ii). religious tolerance -- scotland -- early works to . great britain -- politics and government -- - -- early works to . - tcp assigned for keying and markup - spi global keyed and coded from proquest page images - elspeth healey sampled and proofread - elspeth healey text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion to the king's most excellent majesty . the humble address of the prebyterian ministers in his majesties kingdom of scotland . at edinburgh the twenty first day of july , in the year . may it please your majesty , we your majesties most loyal subjects , the ministers of the presbyterian perswasion in your ancient kingdom of scotland , from the deep sense we have of your majesties gracious and surprizing favour , in not onely putting a stop to our long sad sufferings for nonconformity , but granting us the liberty of the publick and peaceable exercise or our ministerial function , without any hazard ; as we bless the great god who hath put this in your royal heart , do withal find our selves bound in duty to offer our most humble and hearty thanks to your sacred majesty ; the favour bestowed being to us , and all the people of our perswasion , valuable above all our earthly comforts : especially since we have ground from your majesty to believe , that our loyalty is not to be questioned upon the account of our being presbyterians ; who , as we have amidst all former temptations endeavoured , so are firmly resolved still to preserve an entire loyalty in our doctrine and practice , ( consonant to our known principles , which according to the holy scriptures , are contained in the confession of faith generally owned by presbyterians in all your majesties dominions : ) and by the help of god , so to demean our selves , as your majesty may find cause rather to enlarge , than to diminish your favours towards us : throughly perswading ourselves , from your majesties justice and goodness . that if we shall at any time be otherwise represented , your majesty will not give credit to such information , until you take due cognition thereof : and humbly beseeching that those who promote any disloyal principles and practices , ( as we do disown them ) may be look'd upon as none of ours , whatsoever name they may assume to themselves . may it please your most excellent majesty , graciously to accept this our humble address , as proceeding from the plainness and sincerity of loyal and thankful hearts , much engaged by this your royal favour , to continue our fervent prayers to the king of kings , for divine illumination and conduct , with all other blessings spiritual and temporal , ever to attend your royal person and government ; which is the greatest duty can be rendred to your majesty , by your majesties most humble , most faithful , and most obedient subjects . subscribed in our own names , and in the name of the rest of the brethren of our perswasion , at their desire . holy-rood-house : printed by james watson , printer to his most excellent majesties royal family and houshold . . wine for gospel wantons, or, cautions against spirituall drunkenness being the brief notes of a sermon preached at cambridge in new-england, upon a day of publick fasting and prayer throughout the colony / by that reverend servant of the lord, mr. thomas shepard, deceased. shepard, thomas, - . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing s estc r ocm this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) wine for gospel wantons, or, cautions against spirituall drunkenness being the brief notes of a sermon preached at cambridge in new-england, upon a day of publick fasting and prayer throughout the colony / by that reverend servant of the lord, mr. thomas shepard, deceased. shepard, thomas, - . p. [s.n.], cambridge [mass.] printed : . imperfect: pages stained and torn, with some loss of print. reproduction of original in harvard university library. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng christian sects -- massachusetts -- controversial literature. religious tolerance -- massachusetts -- sermons. sermons, american. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - spi global keyed and coded from proquest page images - john latta sampled and proofread - john latta text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion wine for gospel wantons : or , cautions against spirituall drunkenness . being the brief notes of a sermon preached at cambridge in new-england , upon a day of publick fasti●● and prayer throughout the colony , iune . . in reference to the sad estate of the lords people in england . by that reverend servant of the lord , mr. thomas shepard deceased sometimes the pastor of the church of christ there . jer. . . but go you now to my place which was in shiloh , whe●● i set my name at the first , and see what i did to it for t●● wickednesse of my p●●●le israel . 〈…〉 yet let no man strive nor reprove another : for 〈…〉 they that strive with the priest. ●●●●imatur . charles chauncy . iohn sherman . 〈◊〉 in the year . wine for gospel wantons . jerem. . , . therefore thou shalt speak unto them this word , thus saith the lord god of israel , every bottle shall be filled with wine : and they shall say unto thee , do we not certainly know that every bottle shall be filled with wine ? ver. . then shalt thou say unto them , thus saith the lord , behold , i will fill all the inhabitants of this land , even the kings that sit upon davids throne , and the priests , and the prophets , and all the inhabitants of ierusalem with drunkenness . this chapter contains a prophesie of the captivity of gods church in babylon ; which is set down ( to take the deeper impression on their hearts ) first , under the type of a girdle , which is taken from the loins of the prophet , and put into an hole of the rock near euphrates , which did lick the banks of babel , which after a time was so marred , that it was good for nothing : so will i marre the glory , and the great pride of ierusalem . when a people will not be vile in their own eyes , god hath a time to make them vile : when they will not be the glory and praise of god , they shall be the filth and shame of the world . secondly , under sundry similitudes : the first is in these verses ; where note two things : . the similitude it self ; wherein he compares them to bottles , wherein wine was wont to be put : which is set down ( . ) in a plain affirmation of the thing , from gods command [ every bottle shall be filled with wine ] this he was to preach , and testifie . ( . ) from their ignorant and disdainful receiving of this message from god ; q. d. who knows not that ? what great matter is that ? what do you publish and press us to believe that ? we know that every bottle shall . now the lord had caught them , and made them yield thus far , he comes in upon them with the second thing , viz. the explication of the similitude . similitudes prove nothing , but when god applies them , then there 's proof enough . briefly , a little to open the meaning of the text. by every bottle , is meant all the inhabitants of the land , and more particularly , the kings , and the priests , and the prophets . by wine , is meant that spirit of drunkenness wherewith the lord will fill them : and by filling of the vessels , is meant they shall be full of drunkenness : and by bottles , is meant their weak condition ; for they thought themselves vessels of honour , that could withstand the dint of any stroke : but saith the lord , i will dash you one against another : i will do it , saith the lord , by filling them with a spirit of drunkenness ; and the manner how , is by dashing them one against another : i will break all relations asunder , and will not pity , nor spare , but destroy . it would take much time to open all these particularly . we shall onely speak concerning one particular ; viz. what is meant by a spirit of drunkenness : sometimes it is taken for the drunkenness of mens bodies ; sometimes for the soul-calamities that men are under , in such wise that they know not what to do : lam. . . he hath made me drunken with wormwood ; that is , with sore and bitter afflictions . sometimes it is taken for a spiritual judgement on the souls of men , which is a sin ; and not so much a misery , unless it be a spiritual misery , when the lord doth give men up unto a reprobate sense ; and so it is often taken in scripture , isa : . , . they are drunken , but not with wine nor strong drink ; for the lord hath poured out upon them a spirit of deep sleep . the calamity of the people here is expressed in those words , in being dashed one against another , but now drunkenness it goeth before , as that which prepareth for this misery : saith the lord , i will fill all the inhabitants of the land with a spirit of drunkenness , untill i have destroyed them every one . from hence observe , doct. that spiritual drunkenness , it is a certain fore-runner of destruction merciless unto a people . i will shew them no pity , nor spare them , but destroy them , saith the lord : that look as it was with belshazzar , he had been drinking over-night , and the same night the hand-writing of the lord comes out against against : nahum . . while they are drunken as drunkards , they shall be devoured as stubble . for the explication of the point , i shall shew you , . what are the causes of this spiritual drunkenness . . by what effects it doth manifest it self . . when it is a sign of destruction . . i shall give you the reasons why it is so . first , what are the causes of this spiritual drunkenness . look as it is with bodily drunkenness , it ariseth from inordinate drinking of wine or strong drink : so this drunkenness , it ariseth from drinking in those things which are the causes thereof : which are principally these two : . when the wills and affections of men do inordinately drink in the pleasures of sin , and of those things that their hearts should be weaned from , and that should in comparison of better things , be bitter to them ; when men shall give themselves up to this . thus ye shall finde in this sense the prophet calls the kings and the priests and the people , the drunkards of ephraim , such as did fill and satiate themselves with sins , and the lusts of their own hearts . it is a fearfull judgement of god , when the lord shall give men their contentment in this way . ier. . ye shall reade there of a cup that the lord gives , and it must go round , and be put into the hand of all nations . many times the case is thus with many sinners whom the lord intends to destroy , they have many sad fears ; now the lord in his just judgement he puts his cup into their hands , and bids them take their pleasure in their sins , and so by this means they come to be hardned against the fear of death and judgement , yea of those very judgements which are at their very doors . . when the minde and judgement of man drinks in the 〈…〉 any delusion , or corrupt counsel , this 〈◊〉 from the 〈…〉 god 's just hand , thess. . , . corrupt doctrines , these make men drunk in the very understanding of men . rev. . . when antichrist doth corrupt the judgements of men with false doctrine , it is called the cup of the wine of fornication : by drinking these in , the minde it is made drunk . the second particular to be opened , is those effects by which this spirit of drunkenness doth appear and manifest it self . drunkenness appears in staggering and reeling ; so this spiritual drunkenness appears , . in a spirit of unstedfastness and unsetledness , both in holy resolutions in matters of faith , and opinions in matters of judgement . in faith : there is no hold of men , but unsetled and unstedfast in doctrine , and in matters of practise , isai. . . they are drunken but not with wine , they stagger , but not with strong drink , when mens hearts are grown unstedfast : and for this the lord he professeth that he will never forgive this sin until they come to confess it in particular : when men shall walk at peradventures in matters of religion , and do so stagger that the lord knows not where to finde them but as waves of the sea : it is true , there is a staggering that ariseth from weakness , as a childe may , and of that i speak not ; but now when men shall stagger being drunk with their lusts , this is that spirit of drunkenness which goes before ruine . drunkenness takes away the use of reason ; and so this . . it manifests it self , in a spirit of sottishness and blindness , which the lord in his just judgement inflicts upon men for not receiving the truth in the love of it . isai. . the lord hath powred out upon them a spirit of deep sleep , the wisdom of your wise men shall perish , and the understanding of your prudent men shall be hid saith the lord. isai. . . but they have erred through wine and strong drink , they erre in vision , and stumble in judgement . look as it is with drunken men , though their reason be not taken away , yet the use of their reason is gone from them , it befools them , and makes them sottish , giddy , and stupifies their understandings and sences . isai. . . the lord hath mingled a perverse spirit in the middest thereof : now reason will not move men , they can go against common sence and reason : thus when the lord gives men up to a spirit of delusion , it is a spirit of drunkenness . . it manifests it self in a spirit of rage 〈…〉 against another , especially when there is no reason for it 〈…〉 lord shall give men up to a spirit of rage , and division , an 〈…〉 , and the lord leaves men here , even his own dear people that shall one day meet in heaven , no means , no friends can perswade them to agree , but they are given up of god unto a spirit of wrangling and contention ; this is that which goes before the calamity of a people , mica . . . the best of them is a briar , the most upright of them is a thorn hedge , the day of thy watchmen and visitation cometh , now shall be their perplexity . look as you see it is often with drunken men , no counsels can perswade them to be quiet , unless that you use violence , and they are very much gone then , when men are in a wrangling condition ; so nabal in his drunkenness : no counsel can be heard , they think themselves wiser then others , though they be in their drunken fits , and deluded frames , unless the lord by some strong hand do bring them down . . when the lord doth leave men unto a spirit of deep sleep and security ; when the lord doth give men over to such security as is a kinde of dead sleep , when the lord doth leave men to such a sleep as that no awakening providences of the lord can awaken them : and thus ye shall find it in sundry places , ier. . . i will bring them , saith the lord , to such a dead sleep , that when the plagues of god are upon them , they shall never awaken . . a spirit of drunkenness appears in this , in that it causeth men for to open their secrets , their nakedness and shame , as noah ; when god doth leave a people for to manifest hidden sins , that were hidden before ; isai. . . all their tables are full of drunkenness , so that there is no place clean : so that mark now , when the lord doth leave men unto such a spirit of vnstedfastness in the truth ; a spirit of sottishness and blindness ; a spirit of rage and fierceness , a spirit of deep sleep and security , that now they manifest their secret wickedness like sodom ; i say , when god leaves men to such a spirit as this is , then it is a forerunner of destruction . thirdly only here is the question , when is it thus , for every spirit of drunkenness is not a forerunner of destruction ? i shall answer this briefly in three things , from the text . . when the lord doth fill all the inhabitants of jerusalem , for the body of them , though some particulars it may be otherwise with them . . when god fills men with this ; men may be drunk , but yet there may be some room for some wholesome counsel ; but now when men shall be filled full with their delusions , that there is no room for wholesome counsel , that they are uncapable of receiving the counsels of peace and truth . . when the lord doth give men over to this as to a judgement , when the lord gives men over to a spirit of delusion , so as that the means which should do them good , it makes them worse ; when men are in the middest of contention , and the means for their peace makes them more unquiet ; when the word of god that should awaken men , it makes them more secure , and the judgements of god abroad in the world harden them the more . now in the fourth place i shall give you the reasons why it is thus , that the spirit of drunkenness is a forerunner of destruction merciless . reas. . because now a man is immediately disposed unto all wickedness ; he is filling up his measure very fast . reas. . because when the lord giveth men over to a spirit of drunkenness , they cannot now understand the cause of their ruine : they are now besotted , and blinded , the plague of the lord upon them is not removed , nor they know not the cause of it . reas. . this spirit of drunkenness it brings division among a people , and this is a forerunner of all misery : ye need not now to doubt of a fire , for it is begun already . vse . . hence learn , when you see any nation , churches or people , given over to a spirit of drunkenness , to bemoan and bewaile their condition bitterly ; for they have the tokens of certain ruine upon them . and for this end let us take a little paines to consider the state of gods people at this day in england : let us see whether the cup of this wine is not given to the godly party there : there is no doubt of it to the wicked , but that it is now for the godly part , let us examine it in three things . first ▪ hath not the lord given them up to a spirit of blindness in matters of doctrine ? i will not mention the thousands of persons doubting and staggering , and unsetled souls , not knowing what to do , nor what side to take ; and abundance among them , that any religion will serve their turn , so long as their stakes may be setled , and may be in peace and quiet . . some there be that are antinomians , that do deny the use of the law to any that are in christ , to be any rule of life to them : such are not under the law , but under grace . and hence it follows , they will not take any comfort of their good estate , from any conformity of their hearts to the law of god , nor from any law of god written in their hearts ; for what have they to do with the law ? for they are under grace , and they look to grace onely : and in truth are become patrons of free vice , under the mask of free-grace . and hence not being under the law , and having nothing to do with it , their consciences have their liberty , and they will not take any discomfort from any sin against the law of god , or rule broken ; for if not under the law , there is no sin , and why should there be sorrow for any sin ? and these sort do now abound there . you know they are the very things that did leaven this poor country , for which the wrath of god hath broken out against the patrons of it . these very delusions they have now their elbow-room to spread there , and they spread far and wide . . others are anabaptists , and there is such swarms of them , that they are like the locusts , they begin to eat up all the green grass in the land : multitudes there be that are carried aside with them , whom though in former times they had other marks whereby they were known , yet now in these dayes they profess that they hold but one thing differing from the godly orthodox , viz. that they would not have any children to be baptized : and so they make the condition of the children of the saints of god , ( dear to god ) in as miserable an estate , as the children of any turk or pagan , and but as lawful to baptize them , as a cat or a dog : now though they say they hold but this one thing , yet it is impossible that they should hold this , but there will be fourty others that will follow upon it : as now , they must of necessity hold , that the baptism of all the churches of god , is no baptism ; and therefore must be done over again . and again , as they hold churches are made by baptism , then if there be no new baptism , there is no true churches , and then no true administration of any ordinances of the lord , but they are all abominations in the sight of god : and what that reacheth unto , let wise men judge . and if they deny the seal , they must deny the covenant of grace to infants , and so by consequence do undermine all hopes of posterity for time to come . this , where-ever it hath come , it hath been a troubler . . others are rigid separatists , that refuse to hear an holy minister preach , or to communicate in their assemblies , because not altogether purified according to the purification of the sanctuary ; hence forsaking christ and his servants , before christ forsake them : their whole course full of confusion and scandal ; either edifying themselves by their own gifts onely , or chusing unlearned ministers , abhorred in bishops : challenging a licentious liberty to speak , and rule , and do , and not be ruled . . some are seekers ; they deny all churches : some that be risen up of late , that think there be no churches , nor no ministers , nor ordinances of god in any place of the world , but they are in a seeking , waiting condition , for apostles to be sent to make a reformation : and this spreads very far . . there be others that think the soul of man is mortal , and dies with the body ; they print this , and speak thus , and many are deceived by them : others think that they are both mortal , and that there is no resurrection . . others there be that would give liberty and toleration to all religions ; their colour is this , no man should be punished for his conscience : and it is wonderful to think how this doth dazle the eyes of many men , which for my own part , as i believe any other truth of god , i do believe and judge it to be the foundation of all other errours and abominations in the churches of god , if it once be attended among any people of god. it is a sad thing , that that which was accounted of as the heavy plague of god among the people of israel , in the latter end of the book of iudges , that every man did that which was right in his own eyes , that it should now be accounted of as a blessed way of god ; which indeed is the heaviest judgement of god upon a people or nation . now is not here matter of mourning to god for poor england , that is left to be full of these delusions ? if the lord love his people , he will bring them very low , and stock them , and whip them , till he make their spirits sober and humble ; or else mark what i say , englands misery is near at hand . secondly , see if the lord hath not left them to a spirit of division , and they increase every year more and more , worse and worse . in former times the people of god , when the wolf hath been abroad , they have been glad to be of one minde : but now , when god himself is come with a drawn sword , and stands at the door , that now there should be such a division , me-thinks this should be the sobriety of the people of god : there is gods hand on the one side very dreadful , and gods mercy on the other side working all for them ; i say , this should be their sobriety , now to lye down and mourn at the feet of the lord. humiliation and praise should now be the work of gods people in england : but how is it , the lord hath filled all the inhabitants of the land with a spirit of drunkenness ? sermon against sermon , reviling one another ; head against body : go into the camps , whom can they trust ? religion it is the occasion of the breach of peace , and look into the parliament , upper house against lower house , and many pretended friends , but secret enemies , and by means hereof the enemy is encouraged , religion it is scoffed at : and what religion would ye have men to hold unto ? many godly people they are discouraged , and gods servants desiring to say nothing , but rather to lye hid , and mourn for their own sins , and the sins of the people there . and let me say this , and you will finde it is certain , at this very day the principal strength of the land , are such as be seeming friends to the parliament , but secret enemies to the truth , and ordinances , and people of god , and his wayes , and deadly ones too . lastly , the deep security of england under the sins that are now laid open . i will tell you what is their complaint still . their words be these : one especially , that in former times did publish as glorious works as any in that kingdome ; saith he , i would i could speak it with tears , never more talking of reformation , but never less practice of reformation ; our churches are reformed , but our hearts and houses never less reformed ; our high altars are pulled down , but our high mindes are not brought down ; the worship of god is more pure , but the worshippers as impure as ever ; we have less idolatries , but more adulteries and fornications ; i do not say more punishment , but never less punished , and more committed . is there a law against scandalous ministers , and none against scandalous lords and great ones ? men are not ashamed to profess their adulteries before the face of the sun. we never lived in such dayes , wherein there is more judging of others , and less of our selves . never more sad dayes in england , and yet never such pride in apparel ; never such formality in gods worship , never such murmuring , never such censuring : never more talk of reformation , never less reformed ▪ never more security , then when the ship is a sinking ; never times wherein fewer converted ▪ and the power of godliness more decayed , and sin abounding ; never more controversies how churches should be gathered , never fewer added to the church then in these times ; never such controversies how the churches should be governed , and yet never less care of the government of christ in our own houses and hearts . godly men have not leisure to study faith , and repentance , and brokenness for sin . i speak it for this end , that the lord may affect our hearts with the estate of england ; for this is some hope , that though they be thus , yet they are not all yet filled , but there is some room left for counsell , habak . . . bend your prayers against some persons , though you know them not , that make others to be drunk ; give the lord no rest untill he make them examples to the world , rather then the poor church of god should be made drunk , and being made drunk , should dash one against another . vse . let it be a use of warning to us all , to take heed of such sins for which the lord may give us over to a spirit of drunkenness . the time is come , and it is the lords great work at this day in the world , to give all the world this same cup , as the just and heavy judgement of god upon men , for the contempt of the gospel of peace ; and therefore is distraction and confusions in all that men do . most men in the world have seen an end of the perfection of all gods ordinances and gospel , and they begin to grow stale things to them ; therefore will the lord put his cup into your hands , and every bottle shall be filled with wine , unless it be that number which the lord doth preserve in his great mercy . this is the misery , when once the lord leaves any man to a spirit of drunkenness , misery shall be at his door certainly coming upon him , and he shall not know it . many inquiries are among us , what is the cause of the lords hand against us , dashing our ships in pieces , that the lord should break us in our infancy , and tell us that he is gone in part , and that he is taking away some of our precious ones from us ? would you know the cause of this ? you will never know it , untill the lord do take away this drunken distemper from us : so long as we are not kept sober in the love of the truth , we shall never know the true reason why the lord is thus angry with us . we cannot say the lord hath filled all the inhabitants of the land with drunkenness , but yet the cup is given us in part : the head it doth begin to stagger in a great measure ; do we not see great staggering ? unsetledness in the covenant of god , walking with god at peradventures , and such hankerings after the whoredomes of the world at this day : and so likewise divisions and distractions ; little done , and time spent , and the country burthened with charge ; nothing done without much division and contention . certainly something is amiss , every thing threatens some sudden blow to new-england ; yet blessed be the lord he hath not filled every one with a spirit of drunkenness . but let it be the last motive to think of what i speak , that the lord should bring us hither , and give us peace in church and common-wealth , and in all our colonies ; let us look upon it as a rare and singular mercy of the lord , that the lord hath kept us here in peace , and saved us from being poisoned with the delusions in the world . you will say ; how shall we be preserved from this spirit of drunkenness ? here are many things that i should have spoken : but only think of this ; hath not the lord given us other things , and better things to take delight in : the lord hath given us his blessed scriptures to solace our selves in , we had else been like herds of beasts going to the slaughter ? and we have iehovah himself to go unto at any time ; an infinite god we have to go unto . but that ●e may be preserved from this spirit of delusion , for help herein , i shall only name these particulars . . take heed of drunken company : i would not have a godly man to go into the company of an erroneous person : his words are infectious . . let gods people take heed of being deceived by meer colours and pretences of things ; as now upon the colour of free-grace , they bring in free-vice , and under the colour of liberty of conscience , liberty in sin : and good men have been deceived , and why not i , and the truth that i have received for truth , be an errour . . love dearly the truth that you know already ; such truths as discover your sin unto you , make much of them , and certainly the lord will make much more known to you , and preserve you from errour : i will send , saith christ , ioh. . the spirit of truth whom the world cannot receive ; for you know him and he dwelleth in you . look as it is with a man , if he hath taken down good drink , he will not be apt to take poysoned wine ; he will not run to the ale-house and be drunk , that hath good beer at home . love the truth thou knowest , and the lord will then teach the feeble in his way . . drink no more then will do you good : my meaning is this , drink in those truths that ye have known have done you good ; take fast hold of them , and keep them . i will never forget thy precepts , saith david , for by them thou hast quickened me . and then likewise take no more then you have need of , you shall finde this , you need every truth of god ; as now you are tempted to deny evidencing your grace by conditional promises , by such promises wherein the lord doth write down the names of those that he will do good unto , consider whether there be need of that doctrine , and do you not need the contrary ? do you not need to know that them that are pure in heart shall see god ? do you not need this in time of temptation , although for the present , some can walk with a bold conscience . and so for baptism , do you not need a promise of god for your poor children ? lastly , when the lord doth leave you under the sense of your own weakness , that you know not the truth , and under sense of distemper , and that the lord is withdrawn from you , and you know the sin of your heart wherefore the lord is gone : in this case take the counsel of skilful and merciful physitians , go to the servants of the lord , sober and understanding men , old acquaintance with the truth of god , go and ask their counsel : the priests lips should preserve knowledge ; come with an humble and meek spirit , and then the lord will teach you his minde and will. in england , the great reason why so many are deluded , it is because they want instruction ; and our condition here is pretty sad , that we should not have our discipline here published to the world , and to our selves , and therefore we have cause to bless the lord that he hath put it into the hearts of his servants to take paines herein . and there are but these three things that can hinder you from knowing the truth of the lord. . unthankfulness . . want of prayer . . contempt of their message , whom the lord sends to be his ministers . finis . the judgment and doctrine of the church of england concerning one special branch of the king's prerogative, viz. in dispencing with the penall laws / asserted by the most reverend father in god, the lords arch-bishops bancroft, laud and usher, the right reverend fathers in god, the lords bishops sanderson and cartwright, the reverend doctors, sir thomas ridley l.l.d., dr. hevlin, dr. barrow, dr. sherlock master of the temple, dr. hicks, dr. nalson and dr. puller ; and by the anonymus, author of the harmony of divinity and law : together with the concurring resolutions of our reverend judges, as most consonant and agreeable thereunto ; in a letter from a gentleman of oxford, to his friend at london. gentleman of oxford. approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing j estc r ocm this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) the judgment and doctrine of the church of england concerning one special branch of the king's prerogative, viz. in dispencing with the penall laws / asserted by the most reverend father in god, the lords arch-bishops bancroft, laud and usher, the right reverend fathers in god, the lords bishops sanderson and cartwright, the reverend doctors, sir thomas ridley l.l.d., dr. hevlin, dr. barrow, dr. sherlock master of the temple, dr. hicks, dr. nalson and dr. puller ; and by the anonymus, author of the harmony of divinity and law : together with the concurring resolutions of our reverend judges, as most consonant and agreeable thereunto ; in a letter from a gentleman of oxford, to his friend at london. gentleman of oxford. p. printed for j.h. and t.s. ..., london : . reproduction of original in huntington library. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng bancroft, richard, - . prerogative, royal -- great britain. church and state -- great britain. religious tolerance -- church of england. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - apex covantage keyed and coded from proquest page images - jonathan blaney sampled and proofread - jonathan blaney text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion the judgment and doctrine of the clergy of the church of england , concerning one special branch of the king's prerogative , viz. in dispencing with the penall laws , asserted by the most reverend fathers in god , the lords arch-bishops bancroft , laud and vsher . the right reverend fathers in god , the lords bishops sanderson and cartwright . the reverend doctors , sir thomas ridley l. l. d. dr heylin , dr barrow , dr sherlock master of the temple , dr hicks , dr nalson and dr puller . and by the anonymvs , author of the harmony of divinity and law. together with the concurring resolutions of our reverend judges , as most consonant and agreeable thereunto . in a letter from a gentleman of oxford , to his friend at london . licenced the d . of may . upon whomsoever god is understood to bestow the soveraign authority , he must also be understood to bestow upon him all the jura majestatis ; or essential rights of soveraignty , according to that maxim , qui dat esse , dat & omnia pertinentia ad esse ; he that gives the essence , gives also the properties belonging to the essence . jovian , or an answer to julian the apostate , chap. . london , printed for j. h. and t. s. and are to be had at most book-sellers , in london and westminster . sir , in one of the late conferences you were pleased to have with me , you seemed to be somewhat disatisfied upon the subject we were discoursing of , which was , whither the king had by law such a supream power inherent in , and inseparably annexed to his crown , as to dispence with penal laws . i remember i then told you , we could not resolve our selves of this great point , but by these two wayes . . to see , how far the judgment of our church-men , appearing in their doctrines ( which are for our edification ) doth warrant this prerogative to be in the king. ii. to see how far the judges resolutions ( in declaring their sence of the law of the land in this doubtful question , ) do agree with such their judgments and doctrines . and as for the first , sir , i doubt not but to make it clear , past all peradventure , that our reverend clergy of the church of england have unanimously concurred in this point of doctrine , that it doth inseparably belong to the kingly office to dispence with penal laws , when ever such a supremacy of power shall be thought necessary to be exerted for the safety of the king , and the good and ease of his people in general . and if i can prove this undeniably to you ; i hope then that this nice scruple of yours ( which by the way , i suppose , you will allow me to call your tender conscience ) will easily be removed ; and consequently then it may be presumed , i shall have less difficulty to satisfie you in the other point , that this sence of the law of the land in the point in question , is no other , than what is exactly correspondent with the judgment and doctrine of the clergy of the church of england . to begin then , the reverend dean of worcester , in his so deservedly applauded answer to julian the apostate , declares , that the english realm is a perfect soveraignty , or empire , and that the king of england by the imperial laws of it , is a compleat , imperial , and independant soveraign . and he quotes coke in cawdrye's case , who saith , that by the antient laws of this realm , england is an absolute empire , and monarchy ; and that the king is furnished with plenary and entire power , prerogative , and jurisdiction , and is supream governour over all persons within this realm . now it would be a contradiction to call this an imperial crown ; to acknowledge the king for supream over all persons , — and that he is furnished with plenary and entire power , unless he have all those rights , which are involved in the very notion of his imperial soveraignty . by the rights of soveraign , saith he , i understand those prerogatives , and preeminences of power and greatness , which are involved in the formal conception of soveraignty , and are inseparably annexed to the soveraign . — he hath no sharers or co-partners in the soveraignty ; none co-ordinate with him in government ; no equal , nor superiour , but only god , to whom alone he is subject , — all power and jurisdiction spiritual and temporal is derived and deducted from him , as supream head of these churches , and realms . there are some essential rights of the crown , which the subjects cannot obtain from their soveraign by any grant or prescription , without destroying the essential and individual rights of monarchy . these rights , called the flowers of the crown , are regalia suprema , or summa jura imperij , regno tuendo servientia , inherent to his royal function , and politick capacity , and serve for the strength and support thereof — such are the rights of making war and peace , of having the last appeal unto him , or his great council and supream court ; and of making leagues , and of dispensing with penal laws , granting pardons , and such like . now if the king hath a perfection and fulness of imperial power in him , as dr hicks hath clearly made out , and this power of dispensing with penal laws be ( as it must be , or nothing ) one of those prerogatives and pre-eminencies of power and greatness , which are involved in the formal conception of soveraignty ; then certainly it is very plain , that this is an essential right inseparably annexed to our imperial soveraign : and to go about to deprive him of such an inherent right , it would tend to the disinherison of the king and his crown . this phrase , he saith , of the disinherison of the king and the crown in other * acts of parliament is called , the destruction of the king's soveraignty , his crown , his regality , and things that tend thereunto , things that are openly against the king's crown in derogation of this regality . and , sir to convince you , that the king hath this perfection and fulness of power , more especially in matters of religion , in his sacred person , you may please to be informed , that that great metropolitan of all england , arch-bishop bancroft , when question was made of what matters the ecclesiastical judges have cognisance , either upon the exposition of the statutes concerning tythes , or any other thing ecclesiastical , or upon the statute eliz. concerning the high commission , or in any other case in which there is not express authority in law , declared , that the king himself may decide it in his royal person ; and that the judges are but the delegates of the king , and that the king may take what causes he shall please to determine , from the determination of the judges , and may determine them himself . and the archbishop said , that this was clear in divinity , that such authority belongs to the king by the word of god in the scripture . so that eminent prelate . for , as it is well observed by that learned knight , and doctor in the civil law , sir thomas ridley . his majesty , by communicating his authority to the judges to expound his laws , doth not thereby abdicate the same from himself , but that he may assume it again to him , when , and as often as he pleaseth , whose interpretation in that is to be preferred before theirs . for , as he saith in another place , he is both by the ordinance of god and man , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , ( as the apostle terms him ) among them , that is , one who is supream soveraign above the rest , and whom they ought in all things to obey , so it be not against the law of god , and common justice ; for himself is insteed of the whole law , yea , he is the law it self , and the only interpreter thereof , as in whose breast is the whole knowledg of the same . now , sir , what answer can you give to all this ? if it be clear in divinity , that such authority belongs to the king by the word of god in the scripture , with what colour of reason can you deny the king 's imperial soveraignty in dispensing with penal laws ? but to proceed more clearly to the point in question , the most reverend , renowned and religious prelate and patriot , dr w. laud , archbishop of canterbury , a man of such eminent vertue , ( as the author of his life writes of him ) such an exemplary piety towards god , such an unwearied fidelity to his gracious soveraign , and of such a publick soul towards church and state , that he lived the honour , and dyed a martyr of both . i say , this great , but at last unfortunate prelate , thus delivers his considerate opinion , that the supream magistrate in the estate civil , may not abrogate the laws made in parliament , though he may dispence with the sanction or penalty of the law , quoad hic & nunc , as the lawyers speak . the next i shall give you , is , that learned and moderate primate and metropolitan of all ireland , dr. james vsher , late lord arch-bishop of armagh , who in his book entituled , the power communicated by god to the prince , and the obedience required of the subject , composed purposely for the rights both of princes and subjects , and for the comfirmation of staggering loyalty , assures us , that positive laws , being ( as other works of men are ) imperfect and not free from many discommodities , if the strict observation thereof should be pursued in every particular ; it is fit the supream governour should not himself only be exempted from subjection thereunto , but also be so far lord over them , that where he feeth cause he may abate , or totally remit the penalty incurred by the breach of them , dispence with others for the not observing of them at all ; yea , and generally suspend the execution of them , when by experience he shall find the inconveniences to be greater then the profit that was expected should redound thereby unto the common-wealth . plutarch setteth this down as a chief point of that natural skill which philopoemen had in government , that he did not only rule according to the laws , but over-ruled the laws themselves , when he found it conducing to the weal-publick . and he saith a little before , by the law of the king , i understand such ordinances as are meerly civil and positive ; the coactive power whereof being derived from him who is the supream law-giver under god on earth , he himself cannot properly be said to be tyed thereby . for as with the grammarians , the imperative mood hath no first person , so with the civilians , a no man can command or forbid himself ; at least wise , no b man can impose such a law upon himself , but that he may recede from it when he pleaseth . and with the schoolmen ▪ a law hath power to direct such acts as belong to those who are subject to the government of c another ; whereupon no man , if we speak properly , doth impose a law upon his own acts. as no man therefore is superior to himself , so no man hath jurisdiction over himself ; because none can oblige a man against his will , but only his superiour , and the jurisdiction over a man's self may be dissolved at pleasure . kings therefore , as he affirms in another place , are said to be above the laws whereby they govern their people , partly in respect of themselves , partly in respect of others : of others , in asmuch as they have power to judge a according to their own conscience , and not according to the letter of the law ; as also to dispence in some cases with the very obedience , in some with the punishment required by the law . for , he quotes aeneas silvius a little after saying , equity is that which is just beyond the written law : now if the law doth command one thing , and equity perswade another , it is fit the emperor should temper the rigour of the law with the bridle of equity , as he who alone may and ought to look unto that interpretation which lieth interposed between law and equity . especially seeing no decree of the law , although weighed with never so considerate councel , can sufficiently answer the varieties and unthought on plottings of mans nature . and seeing the condition of human law is such , that it runneth always without stint , and there is nothing in it which can be at a perpetual stand ; it is manifest , that in tract of time the laws which before were just , prove afterwards to be unjust , and become now unprofitable , now harsh , now unrighteous : for the moderating whereof there is need of the prince , who is lord of the laws . for if it fall out , that any thing hath been more obscurely delivered therein , it is fit the emperor should clear it , and amend that harshness of the laws , which he shall find to be contrary and disagreeable to his humanity . for where it is said , that a law , although it be hard , should yet be observed ; that respecteth the inferiour judges , and not the emperour ; in whom is that power of moderating the laws which they call 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , or equity , which is so annexed to the supremacy of the prince , that by no decrees of man it can be pulled from it . thus far aeneas silvius out of him . in regard of themselves kings are said to be exempted from subjection to the laws , both because they are not tyed ( otherwise than for conveniency and good example's sake ) to the observance of such as are meer positive and temporary laws ; and because they are not liable to the civil punishments set down for the breach of any law , as having no superiour upon earth that may exercise any such power over them . and again , saith this great prelate , while the laws do stand in force , a it is fit that somtimes the king's clemency should be mingled with the severity of them ; especially when by that means the subjects may be freed from much detriment and dammage : b the condition of the magistrates , whose sentence is held corrupt , if it be milder than the laws , being one thing ; the power of princes , whom it becometh to qualifie the sharpness of them , a far different matter . to this eminently reverend and judicious primate , i shall next subjoyn the c humble , patient and learned dr robert sanderson , late lord bishop of lincoln , that you may see what his opinion is in this matter . but before i give you his words , let me beg your favour to hear what the modest and holy writer of his life , dr isaac walton says of that book from whence i produce them . how much the learned world stands obliged to him for his lectures de conscientia , i shall not attempt to declare , as being very sensible , that the best pens must needs fall short in the commendation of them : so that i shall only add , that they continue unto this day , and will do for ever , as a compleat standard for the resolution of the most material doubts in casuistical divinity . and now sir , pray observe what the bishop says . vpon a doubt , how may that be understood which so commonly is spoken , salus populi est suprema lex , the safety of the people is the supream law ; he , among other things , thus declares , there is no sober man will deny , that the safety of the people , that is , of the whole commonalty , as that word comprehends the king , together with the subjects , is the supream law ; but that the safety of the people , that is , of the subjects , the king being excluded , is the supream law , there is no man will affirm it , unless he be a fool , or an imposter ; a fool , if he doth believe what he himself saith , and an imposter , if he doth not believe it . but if any man will seriously look into the original of this aphorism , i do believe he will more easily grant , that it ought more precisely to be understood of the safety of the prince , than of the safety of the subjects . this saying , so tossed up and down in the mouthes of all men , came to us from the romans , and was then used by them when their republick did flourish most of all under a popular state : and there is no great reason that any man should wonder , that the people's safety was the supream law with them , with whom the people themselves were the supream power ; in the judgment therefore of those wise antients , who were the first authors of this aphorism , the safety of the supream power was the supream law , of the people indeed in a democracy , but of a king in monarchy . but i say , it being admitted , but not granted , that this aphorism is properly understood of the safety of the people , that is , of the subjects , it is nevertheless perversly wrested to the prejudice of regal dignity , which even so doth render its power more ample and illustrious in this sence . a king that gives laws and statutes to his people will not be so bound up by his laws , that it shall not be lawful for him , the safety of the common-wealth being in an apparent danger , to provide for the safety of kingdom and people committed to him by god , even against the words of the law ; not that it is lawful for subjects under the pretence of the defence of their liberty to break all the bonds of laws and fidelity , and by an intollerable presumption to trample on the authority of their king , but that it is lawful for the prince , in the preservation of his own and his subjects safety , to lay aside for a while all strict observance of the laws , and to make use a little of an arbitrary right , least by too unseasonable and superstitious reverence of the laws , he may suffer both his own person , and his people that are subject to him , and even the laws themselves , to fall into the power of his enemies . i will close up this christian doctrine of our bishops with one authority more , and that is of our present right reverend father in god , thomas lord bishop of chester , in his sermon on the th of feb. / ; . in the collegiate church of rippon , where you will find him thus to inform you , and all other good subjects ; so that the king may , it seems , make use of his prerogative , as god does of his omnipotence , upon some extraordinary occasions : for as my lord hobart well observes , the statute laws are made to ease him of his labour , not to deprive him of his power , and that he may make a grant with a non-obstante to them : and indeed the power of dispensing with particular laws , in some emergencies , is such a lex coronae , such a prerogative , without which no kingdom can be well governed , but justice will be turned into wormwood . for there never was yet , nor ever will be , any human law , framed with such exact skill and policy , that it might not , on some occasion or other , be burthensome to the subject , and obstructive to the publick good of the common-wealth : there being particular cases and exigencies , so infinitely various , that 't is impossible for the wit of man to foresee or prevent them . and therefore in all government there must be a power paramount to the written law ; and we have good reason to bless god , that this is lodged but in one , and in him whom he hath set over us , to be his vice-gerent ; by whose authority , they who break the letter of the law , in pure zeal and loyalty , to serve the ends of government , and to uphold the crown on the right head , that does and ought to wear it , may be relieved , and pardoned , and rewarded too . thus sir , have i given you in short the sence and judgment of our spiritual guides , the great fathers of the church of england in the point in question between us ; i will now discend to men of less degree in the church , but they shall be men of great and eminent learning , sober understandings , and of examplary piety and gravity , and you shall hear how they all concur in the same judgment as concerning this point of regal soveraignty . the first shall be the reverend dr peter heylin . whose knowledge was extensive as the earth , and who had a parfect familiarity with the present state of all the countries in the world , ( as the ingenious author of his life informs us ) and one who is honoured by all true sons of the church of england , with a due veneration for his learned and elabourate works . and he speaks thus . he ( viz. the king ) hath authority by his prerogative royal to dispence with the rigor of the laws , and sometimes to pass by a statute with a non-obstante . the learned and judicious dr isaac barrow , late master of trinity colledge in cambridge , in his treatise concerning the popes supremacy affirms thus — it is indeed a proper indowment of an absolute soveraignty , immediately and immutably constituted by god , with no terms or rules limitting it , that its will declared in way of precept , proclamations concerning the sanction of laws , the abrogation of them , the dispensation with them , should be observed . and says he a few leaves futher , the power of enacting and dispencing with ecclesiastical laws touching exteriour discipline did of old belong to the emperor . and it was reasonable that it should ; because old lawss might not conveniently sute with the present state of things , and the publick welfare ; because new laws might conduce to the good of church and state , the care of which is incombent on him ; because the prince is bound to use his power and authority to promote gods service , the best way of doing which may be by framing orders conducible thereunto . and in another place he declares that it is a priviledge of soveraigns to grant priviledges , exemptions , dispensations . thus sayes the reverend dr sherlock , master of the temple , in a positive manner , it does not become any man , who can think three consequences off , to talk of the authority of laws , in derogation to that authority of the soveraign power . the soveraign power made the laws , and can repeal them , and dispence with them , and make new laws : the only power and authority of the laws is in the power which can make and execute laws . soveraign power is inseperable from the person of a soveraign prince . i shall in the next place give you the words of the ingenious , and most painful searcher into truths , john nalson , dr. of laws , whose indefatigable industry hath sufficiently appeared in those volumes of historical collections he lived to see published to the world , his words are these . in the kings power it is to remit the severities of the penal laws , whereby he may manifest his goodness and clemency as well as his greatness and justice , by graciously pardoning the smaller breaches of his laws , and the more capital offences which he might most justly punnish . and who in the world can dispute this ? when , as dr. hick's in his jovian tells us for certain , that upon whomsoever god is understood to bestow the soveraign authority , he must also be understood to bestow upon him all the jura majestatis , or essential rights of soveraignty , according to that maxime , qui dat esse , dat et omnia pertinentia ad esse ; he that gives the essence , gives also the properties belonging to the essence . and doth not all mankind consent in this , that the king is the fountain of mercy as well as of justice ? surely then the penal laws , especially those made meerly for diversity of opinions in religion , which ( not to call them unchristian ; since our saviour never offered any external force and compulsion to make men obey his laws , as the learned master of the temple assures us , but however ) are in themselves by experience proved very unreasonable , ought at least to be subject to the goodness and mercy of the prince , to dispence with them , when he in his wisdom shall judge it most necessary for the good of his people in generall . for as the aegyptian hieroglyphick for government was an eye in a scepter : so the chief magistrate is like a watchman upon a tower , who is to look down and view the general state of his people , and to conduct himself accordingly . the reverend dr puller , in his most extraordinary book concerning the moderation os the church of england , saith , that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , moderation , as it is now generally used , is a word borrowed from the law , and is used by the masters thereof , to denote such a gentle and benign temper , as disposeth those who have the administration of the laws ( which , you see , is the imperial soveraign , who hath the supream jurisdiction over all others , and jurisdiction is defined by the civilians to be , potestatem juris dicendi , a power of giving laws to others ) to remit of their rigour , where either ( first ) they press too hard upon particular persons ; or else ( secondly ) to supply the defects of the said laws , where they provide not sufficiently for particular cases ; in order thereunto , squaring their determination by the natural rules of justice and goodness , rather than by the letter of the law. and a little further , the same doctor goes on , saying , moderation , in the forensick sence wherein we take it , is defined by aristotle to be the correction of the laws wherein because of their vniversality they are deficient . from whence , as it must be supposed , to be confined to those to whom the administration of the laws is committed , who alone can have the power of correcting them : so nothing therefore will be further requisite to shew , than that it disposeth them ; where the laws press too hard upon particular persons , to relax the rigour of them ; as on the other side , where they do not sufficiently provide for them , to supply their defect . all laws , we know , are for the punishment of evil doers , or for the praise of them that do well : but it being impossible so to provide for the punishment of evil doers , as not sometimes to bring even the innocent within the compass of it ; because what , generally considered , ought to be lookt upon and censured as evil , may yet upon sundry considerations and circumstances have nothing of evil in it , or at least be worthy of pardon ; either the innocent must suffer together with the nocent , ( which so benign a vertue as that we treat of cannot allow ) or it must dispose those to whom the administration of the laws is committed to remit of their rigour in such particulars , and exempt them from the undergoing of it : it being in like manner impossible for laws so to provide for the incouragement of those who deserve well , as that sometime such may not be past over or neglected ; partly because all cases cannot be foreseen by the law-giver ; and partly by reason of the shortness of his expressions ; either some who may deserve incouragement may be excluded from partaking of it , ( which so benign a vertue as we speak of cannot casily permit ) or it must dispose those to whom the administration of the laws is committed to ampliate their favours ; and to take such within the compass of them . once again , equity and moderation , saith he in the next page , is the publick honesty of the laws ; without which , justice often would be turned into wormwood : it contains the excellent spirit ( 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ) the mind and reason of the law , and is the most sacred and venerable part of it : as it is the honour and perfection of the laws , so it is the sanctuary of such as happen to be oppressed by the rigour of the letter . i will now , sir , trouble you with but one instance more upon this subject , ( though i could multiply , i am confident , authorities of this kind even beyond your patience ) and that is of one , that will needs be anonymus , and therefore so he shall pass for me , but his words are these . it is the prerogative of the king , to dispence with many acts of parliament by a * non-obstante , or clause of notwithstanding , especially such , as bind him from any prerogative , that is solely , and inseparably annexed to his sacred person , and royal power . and even to the asterick * there is this marginal note , viz. . eliz. in the house of commons sir george moor said ; we know the power of her majesty cannot be restrained by any act. why therefore should we thus talk ? admit we should make the statute with a non-obstante , yet the queen may grant a patent with a non-obstante to cross this non-obstante . i have done , sir , now with our reverend prelates and doctors of the church of england as to this particular , and hope , i have sufficiently proved to you , that their judgment and doctrine doth clearly warrant this great prerogative of dispencing with penal laws , to be in the king. let us see in the next place what were the reasons that induced the reverend judges in westminster hall , ( who ( the law sayes ) are the expositors of acts of parliament , and are likewise custodes jurati ss . praerogativae regiae , ) so openly and solemnly , after mature deliberation , to declare their resolutions in this point for the king. the reasons that perswaded them were these that follow , viz. i. that the kings of england are soveraign princes . ii. that the laws of england are the king's laws . iii. that therefore it is an incident inseparable prerogative in the kings of england ; as in all other soveraign princes to dispence with penal laws in particular cases , and upon particular necessary reasons . iv. that of these reasons , and these necessities , the king himself is the sole judge . and then which is consequent upon all . v. that this is not a trust invested in , or granted to the king by the people , but is the antient remain of the soveraign power , and prerogative of the kings of england , which never yet was taken from them , nor can be . now , sir , if such hath been the doctrine of our most eminent clergy of the church of england , ( and in it they have delivered to us nothing but the words of truth in righteousness ) that the king by his imperial soveraignty , when he shall see the necessity of the state to require it , ( of which he is the only judge , ) may dispence with penal laws ; how can you , or any man , who is a sincere lover of the church of england , be dissatisfied with the resolution of our reverend judges in this matter , seeing the reasons they went upon were only such as were exactly correspondent with the avowed doctrines before recited ; and that by this declaration of theirs , the law of the kingdom of england concerning this soveraign power in the crown , is no more , than what was before publickly asserted to be the divinity of the kingdom . besides , lex vigilat pro rege , saith the law , and the judges are sworn to maintain all the kings prerogatives ; which are part of the law of england , and comprehended within the same ; therefore it is said , that imperij majestas est tutelae salus , the dignity of the prince is the peoples security . the kings prerogative and priviledges , are incident to his crown , and he need not prescribe in any prerogative , for it is as ancient as his crown is , and is not only the law of the exchequer , but the law of the land , as that which is his by the ancient laws of the land. wherefore the judges of the courts of westminster are to judge in matters of prerogative by this rule , that whatsoever may be for the benefit and profit of the king , shall be taken most largely for him , & whatever may be against him , and for his disprofit shall be taken strictly : and it is the duty of every judge of all courts , high and low , to take great care to preserve the kings right , and for that purpose to take every thing at the best for him . and , sir , unto the judges the people are bound lastly and finally to submit themselves for matter of law , according to the opinion of the learned author of the royallists defence . but i remember likewise you seemed to startle at the thoughts of this power ; and were afraid , if at any time the king should think it necessary and convenient to exert it , and to grant a general liberty of conscience , that the church of england would be extreamly shaken in her security . what strange jealousies and suspitions some weak men may have , i suppose it will not be here worth while to consider ; but certainly our great supporters of the ark of god can never allow themselves in so feminine a passion . they know they have an infinitely wise god , and a most gracious king to trust to : this hath been their doctrine , and ought we not to practice it ? they say , . they have the care and providence of god for their security , who is king of kings , lord of lords , and the only ruler of princes ; and that the hearts of kings are in his rule and governance , and he doth dispose and turn them as seemeth best to his godly wisdom : according to what solomon said , and perhaps upon his own experience , that the kings heart is in the hand of the lord , as the rivers of water , he turneth it whithersoever he will. so that they have all the security that any people in the world ever had , have , or ought to have . besides , . they have a most gracious king to trust to . for , . they have his royal word , that he will protect and maintain the church of england , in the free exercise of her religion , as by law established ; and can she ever be trusted in safer hands than his ? he hath done more than ever any of us durst ever venture to look for , to give us confidence in him ; enough to puzzle our understandings , as well as our gratitude : and how can he give us better security than he has done ? shall we suspect him without cause ? or remain dissatisfied when he hath given us the best security that our cause admits of ? to suspect our prince , where we cannot help our selves , is of all fears the most unreasonable . . again , we have the conscience of the prince for our security , who hath all the moral obligations , and the fear of god , to keep him from oppressing us , so long as we keep our selves within the conscience of the duty which we owe unto him . the common principles of humanity , justice and equity , are engraven by the finger of god upon the minds of kings , as well as upon other mens ; and they cannot do wrong upon any particular person , much less to great numbers of their subjects , without undergoing the same uneasie remorse that other men do , when they injure one another . this hath been found by sad experience in pagan princes . — and if conscience be a restraining principle in heathen princes , if they cannot without such soul torments pervert justice , and violate their oathes , and the laws , it must needs much more be a powerful principle of restraint to christian kings , who are taught to know that they are gods ministers , and that he will call them to a severe account for oppressing his people over whom he set them : and shall not the fear of god's anger and judgments keep the soveraign from injuring of them ? . but further still , as the church of england hath the prince's conscience , for her security , so she hath his honour too . for princes ( like other men ) are tender of their honour , and good name , and are powerfully restrained by shame from doing evil to their subjects . — though they may be desirous for their honour to have the times computed from their conquests , yet the same principle of honour will ordinarily make them ashamed to have them computed from their massacres , and persecutions , which will but get them the surname of the bloudy , or the tyrant , unto the end of the world. honour , as moralists observe , is a secondary , or civil conscience . and as for our prince , who was ever so exceeding tender of his honour as he ? so just to all , and hath he not promised to uphold and maintain this church , and her legitimate children ? — he knows , that ours is a religion that hath alwayes asserted the rights of the crown , with life and fortune : and how chearfully the members of it have spent their blood and treasure in his own , his late majestie 's , and his father's service , and how they stand affected to his prerogative . and he is very well content , we should be as faithful to god , as we are to him ; as true to our religion , as to our king : god preserve and prosper him for it . now since our own religion ( as to the free exercise of it ) is thus secured to us , and seeing that by his majesties gracious declaration he is willing that no man should be forced to his religion , or drove against his conscience from the religion he professeth ; and seeing it is manifestly necessary , that , as sails , so laws , are to be turned , and as occasion , time and circumstance , and reason of state shall direct , either to be altered , or revoked : and if acts of parliament formerly made to try what good effects they could work in the state , do apparently prove mischievous and ineffectual by their too great rigour and violence , and by the great numbers of those that are of dissenting judgments ? what dishonour can it be for the king to lay them asleep for a while to stay those passionate heats , and fierce oppositions of such as seem adversaries to his grace , or for any parliament to repeal them , for the same reasons , non coercet sed provocat violentia , for too heavy a hand upon those whom the law casts down , shews the will rather to oppress the offender , then to cure the offence ? 't is the greatest honour to kings , that their mercy , like that of the almighty , is more eminent than their justice , and that their benches , and courts , can witness more compassion than severity ; for he that sets open the prison doors in so wise and gracious a manner , meaneth not to conquer the hearts and consciences of his people by torment , but to winn them by mercy and sweetness . clemency is a virtue sometimes of as great policy as piety , because it begets love , and love breeds loyalty , commands the very soul , and lays the body at the feet of the obliger : mercy kindles fire and zeal in the hearts of subjects . liberty of conscience is a natural right , and therefore our saviour compelled none to receive his doctrine , but est dominus non cogens , he is not a constraining lord , but committing his liberty to the will , said publickly to all , if any man will come after me ; and to his apostles , will ye also go away ? and his disciples were not commanders , but instructors and teachers , which was their commission . compulsion and terrene penalties are out of his jurisdiction , whose kingdom was not of this world , which he acknowledgeth not only in speech , but in practise : for when the disciples would have commanded fire from heaven to have consumed the samaritans , he rebuked them ; and when he was apprehended by the chief priests and elders , he could have commanded legions of angels , but would not . it is irreligion to take away the liberty of religion ; so tertullian , ad irreligiosiatis elogium concurrit , this concurreth to the commendation of irreligion , to take away the liberty of religion , &c. and therefore , saith the apostle , we have not dominion over your faith. sir , i cannot tell how well to shut up this discourse without the words of that learned and most reverend dr. gerard langbaine , who was provost of queen's colledge in oxford , so well known to all , not only at home , but abroad , that the famous rhetorician , longinus , could scarce speak any thing beyond the merit of so excellent a person : this doctor in his judicious refutation of the damnable league & covenant , ( which was then so furiously contended for ) to be imposed upon the consciences of those who expressed their zeal to his majesties righteous cause , in which , without all peradventure , he spoke the inward sentiments of all the loyal suffering clergy of england , doth there most admirably instruct us , what a sandy foundation that is , which supports persecution for conscience sake . his words follow . persecution in matters of meer religion is a course against the nature of religion it self , for faith , the soul of religion , is an inward act of the soul , which all the tyranny in the world , that the malice of the devil can invent , or the wit of man can exercise , can neither plant where it is not , nor extirpate where it is . it is the gift of god , freely begotten in the hearts of men , not by threats and terrors , not by tortures and massacres , but by the quiet still voice of the word preached , suadenda , non cogenda . and therefore st. paul , though a lawful governour in the church , flatly disclaims any domineering power over the conscience . as for the outward profession of religion , neither is that subject to force and violence : a man may confefs christ , and his faith in him , as freely in bonds , as at liberty ; as gloriously upon the cross , as upon the throne . fear indeed may incline a weak conscience to dissemble his opinion , but cannot constrain him to alter it : fire and faggot are strong arguments of a weak cause , undeniable evidences of cruelty in those that use them , but slender , motives of credibility to beget faith in those that suffer by them . lastly , for the external , free , and publick practise of religious duties , that i grant may be restrained by the outward violence of man , but when it is so , it is not required by god , who never expects to reap what he did not fow . in another place , he says , the most antient apologists for the christian faith , use this as an argument to prove the religion of their persecutors to be false , and their own true , that stood in need of humane force to maintain it , but theirs stood by the sole power of god. it is against ( sayes he a little further ) the innate principle of the law of nature , quod tibi fieri non vis , alteri ne feceris . those , who plead most for extirpation of hereticks , when it comes to be their own turn to be under the cross , stand for liberty of conscience , and declaim against persecution for religion , as a thing utterly unlawful ; and surely if we will not suffer it from others , we may not use it our selves . therefore , as dr puller rightly sayes , if ever the practice of moderation , as well as any discourse thereof , were seasonable ; it may be supposed now , when , for ought we know , the lasting happiness of the kingdom and church , may depend immediately upon this rare and desirable temper , acknowledged of all most excellent . i will conclude all with that admirable sentence of dr barrow in his forementioned treatise , that relief of the oppressed , or clemency to the distressed , are noble flowers in every soveraign crown . thus , sir , you see how ready i am , as far as my abilities will extend , to contribute to the satisfaction of your judgment . i shall be as zealous still to go on in so pious a duty , if there be any remaining doubts and scruples you will make known to , sir , your humble servant , &c. finis . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e dr hick's jovian . chap. . sir robert pointz knight of the bath , his vindication of monarchy . chap. . dr. hicks ut . sup. . inst . p . suprema jurisdictio & potestas regia , et si princeps velit , se seperari non possunt , sunt enim ipsa forma , et substantialis essentia majestatis , ergo manente rege ab eo abdicari non possunt . cavedo , pract. observ . p. . decis . . n. . * stat. of praemunire , . r. . cap. . dr. richard bancroft made lord arch-bishop of cant. . . co. fo . . . jac. ridley's view of the civil and ecclesiastical law , dedicated to king james . d edition , part . chap. . sect. . id. part . ch . . sect . . pet. . . cyprianus anglicus , by dr heylin , d. d. and chaplain to charles the st and charles the d , part . epist . dedicat. arch-bishop laud against fisher , printed . vid epis . dedicat . to king charles . by james tyrr●●l esq plutarch , in comparat . flaminij et philopoemen . a marcian in l. si de re sua , de recept , arbit , vid. et vlpian in l. ille a quo , sect. tempestivum , d. ad senat . trebel . et in l. quod autem , sec. vxori quis d. de donat inter , viz. b hermog , in l. si quis sect. . d. deleg . c thom. . quest . . artic . . a cynus in l. rescript , cod. de precib . imper . offerend . thom. in . . quest . . artic . . ad . aeneas silvius de ortu & authoribus imperii , cap. . . a justin junior , imp. in praefatione conseit . b symmach , l. . ep. ult . c in his preface and life by dr isaac walton . bishop sanderson's cases of conscience , translated by robert codrington , master of arts , printed . ninth lecture . sermon preached upon the aniversary solemnity of the happy inauguration of our dread soveraign lord king james . by thomas cartwright , d. d. dean of rippon , and chaplain in ordinary to his majesty . colt and glover against the bishop of litchfield . in the account of dr heylin's life . dr sherelock's case of resistance , chap. . dr nalson's common interest of king & people , chap. . case of resistance . de jure uniformitatis ecclesiasticae : by hugh davis , l. l. b. lib. . chap. . chap. . davia's ut sup . lib. . chap. . dr puller's moderation of the church of england , chap. . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . arist . eth. l. . chap. . est scriptum legis angustum inter pretatio diffusa . senec. l. . controv . . the harmony of divinity and law , in a discourse about not resisting of soveraign princes . townsend's collect. pag. . co. inst . f. . . inst . . b. lane. . n. bendl. . sheph. tit . prerog . ro. rep . . royallists defence chap. . pag. . jovian chap. . his majesties most gratious declaration , &c. bishop of chesters sermon ut sup . jovian ut sup . bishop . of chesters serm. ut sup . grotius . luke . . math. . . chap. de act. imp. f. . cor. . . langbain's review of the covenant , printed . puller's moderation . to the reader . tolleration iustified, and persecution condemn'd. in an answer or examination, of the london-ministers letter whereof, many of them are of the synod, and yet framed this letter at sion-colledge; to be sent among others, to themselves at the assembly: in behalf of reformation and church-government, corinth. ii. vers. . . and no marvail, for sathan himself is transformed into an angell of light. therefore it is no great thing, though his ministers transform themselves, as though they were ministers of righteousnesse; whose end shall be according to their works. walwyn, william, - . this text is an enriched version of the tcp digital transcription a of text r in the english short title catalog (thomason e _ ). textual changes and metadata enrichments aim at making the text more computationally tractable, easier to read, and suitable for network-based collaborative curation by amateur and professional end users from many walks of life. the text has been tokenized and linguistically annotated with morphadorner. the annotation includes standard spellings that support the display of a text in a standardized format that preserves archaic forms ('loveth', 'seekest'). textual changes aim at restoring the text the author or stationer meant to publish. this text has not been fully proofread approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. earlyprint project evanston,il, notre dame, in, st. louis, mo a wing w a thomason e _ estc r this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (thomason tracts ; :e [ ]) tolleration iustified, and persecution condemn'd. in an answer or examination, of the london-ministers letter whereof, many of them are of the synod, and yet framed this letter at sion-colledge; to be sent among others, to themselves at the assembly: in behalf of reformation and church-government, corinth. ii. vers. . . and no marvail, for sathan himself is transformed into an angell of light. therefore it is no great thing, though his ministers transform themselves, as though they were ministers of righteousnesse; whose end shall be according to their works. walwyn, william, - . [ ], , [ ] p. [s.n.], london, : printed in the year, . attributed to william walwyn by wing. annotation on thomason copy: "jan: th "; the second in imprint date crossed out. reproduction of the original in the british library. eng religious tolerance -- england -- early works to . church polity -- early works to . religion and state -- england -- early works to . great britain -- church history -- th century -- early works to . a r (thomason e _ ). civilwar no tolleration iustified, and persecution condemn'd.: in an answer or examination, of the london-ministers letter whereof, many of them are of walwyn, william f the rate of defects per , words puts this text in the f category of texts with or more defects per , words. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - apex covantage keyed and coded from proquest page images - mona logarbo sampled and proofread - mona logarbo text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion the letter of the london ministers to the assembly of divines at vvestminster ; against toleration , mildly examined ; and the mistakes thereof friendly discovered ; as vvell for the sakes of the independent and separation , as for the good of the common-wealth . when i call to minde the generall oppression ( before the parliament ) exercised upon good people , conscientious in the practice of their religion ; and that the presbyters did not onely suffer as much as any therein , but exclaim'd , and labour'd as much as any there-against : it is a wonder to me , that now that yoke is removed , and a blest opportnnity offered by almighty god , to the people and their parliament , to make every honest heart glad , by allowing a just and contentfull freedome , to serve god without hypocrisie ; and according to the perswasion of conscience : that one sect amongst us , that is the presbyters , that have been yoke-fellowes with us ; should not rest satisfied with being free as their brethren , but become restlesse in their contrivances and endeavours , till they become lords over us . the wonder is the same , as it would have been , had the israelites , after the aegyptian bondage , become task-masters in the land of canaan one to another , but that is more in them who have been instructed by our saviour in that blessed rule ; of doing unto others , what they would have others doe unto themselves . to discover the severall policies the presbiters have used to get into the chayre they have justled the bishops out of , whose example they have followed in many particulars ; as especially in the politick and graduall obtaining the ordinance for licencing , upon a pretence of stopping the kings writings , but intentionably obtained , and violently made use of against the independents , separation , and common-wealths-men , who either sees more , or something contrary to the designes of the licencer . to signifie to the people , how the presbiters have laboured to twist their interest with the parliaments , as the bishops did theirs with the king , how daily and burdensomly importunate they are with the parliament , to establish their government , ( which they are pleased to call christs ) and back it with authority , and a compulsive power , ( which by that very perticular appeares not to be his ) to lay open their private juncto's and councels , their framing petitions for the easie and ignorant people , their urging them upon the common councell , and obtruding them upou the chusers of common councell men , at the wardmote elections , even after the parliament had signified their dislike thereof ; to sum up their bitter invectives in pulpits , and strange liberty they take as well there , as in their writings , to make the separation and independents odious by scandals and untrue reports of them , in confidence of having the presse in their own hands , by which meanes , no man without hazard shall answer them , to lay open the manner and depth of these proceedings , is not the intention of this worke ; i only thought good to mention these particulars , that the presbiters may see they walke in a net , no 't is no cloud that covers them , and that they may fear that in time they may be discern'd as well by the whole people , as they are already by a very great part thereof . the london ministers letter , contriu'd in the conclave of sion colledge , is one of the numerous projects of the clergy : not made for the information of the sinod , but the misinformation of the people , to prevent which is my businesse at this time ; i will only take so much of it as is to the point in hand , to wit , tolleration . letter , it is true , by reason of different lights , and different ▪ sights among brethren , there may be dissenting in , opinion , yet why should there be any seperating from church communion . why ? because the differences in opinion is in matters that concerne church communion : you may as well put the question , why men play not the hypocrites ? as they must needs do if they should communicate in that church society , their minde cannot approve of . the question had been well put , if you had said , by reason of different lights , and different sights , there may be dissenting in opinion , yet why should our hearts be divided one from another ? why should our love from hence , and our affections grow cold and dead one towards another ? why should we not peaceably , beare one with another , till our sights grow better , and our light increase ? these would have been questions i thinke , that would have pusled a truly conscientious man to have found an answer for . that which next followes , to wit , the churches coat may be of divers colours , yet why should there be any rent in it : is but an old jing of the bishops , spoken by them formerly in reference to the presbiters ; and now mentioned , to make that which went before , which has no weight in it selfe , to sound the better . letter . have we not a touchstone of truth , the good word of god , and when all things are examined by the word , then that which is best may be held fast ; but first they must be knowne , and then examined afterward . i shall easily concur with them thus farr , that the word of god is the touchstone , that all opinions are to be examined by that , and that the best is to be held fast . but now who shall be the examiners , must needs be the question ; if the presbiter examine the independant and seperation , they are like to find the same censure the presbiters have already found , being examined by the bishops , and the bishops found from the pope : adversaries certainly are not competent judges ; aga ine , in matters disputable and controverted , every man must examine for himselfe , and so every man does , or else he must be conscious to himselfe , that he sees with other mens eyes , and has taken up an opinion , not because it consents with his understanding , but for that it is the safest and least troublesome as the world goes , or because such a man is of that opinion whom he reverences , and veri●y believes would not have been so , had it not been truth . i may be helpt in my examination , by other men , but no man o● sort of men ▪ are to examine for me , insomuch that before an opinion can properly be said to be mine , it must concord with my understanding . now here is the fallacy , and you shall find it in all papists , bishops , presbiters , or whatsoever other sort of men , have or would have in their hands the power of persecuting , that they alwayes suppose themselves to be competent examiners and judges of other men differing in judgement from them , a●d upon this weake supposition ( by no meanes to be allowed ) most of the reasons and arguments of the men forementioned , are supported . they proceed to charge much upon the indepe●dents , for not producing their modell of church-government ; for answer hereunto , i refer the reader to the reasons printed by the independents , and given into the house in their own justification , which the ministers might have taken notice of . i proceed to the supposed reasons urged by the ministers , against the tolleration of independency in the church . letter . . is , because the desires and endeavours of independents for a toleration , are at this time extreamly unseasonable , and pre : properous for , . the reformation of religion is not yet perfected and setled amongst us , according to our covenant . and why may not the reformation be raised up at last to such purity and perfection , that truly tender consciences may receive abundant satisfaction for ought that yet appeares . i would to god the people , their own friends especially , would but take notice of the fallacy of the reason : they would have reformation perfected according to the covenant , before the independents move to be tollerated : now reformation is not perfected according to the covenant , till schisme and heresie is extirpated ; which in the sequel of this letter , they judge independency tobe , that their charity thinks it then most seasonable , to move that independency should be tolerated after it is extirpated : their reason and affection in this , are alike sound to the independants . their drift in this , indeede is but too evident , they would have the independents silent , till they get power in their hands , and then let them talke if they dare , certainly , the most seasonable time to move for tolleration is while the parliament are in debate about church government ; since if stay bee made till a church government bee setled , all motions that may but seeme to derogate from that , how just soever in themselves , how good soever for the common-wealth , must needs be hardly obtained . and whereas they say , why may not reformation be raised up at last to such prity and perfection , that truly tender consciences may receive abundant satisfaction , for ought that yet appeares . observe , . that these very ministers , in the sequel of their letter , impute it as levity in the independents , that they are not at a stay , but in expectation of new lights and reserves , as they say , so that a man would thinkf they themselves were at a certainty : but t is no new thing for one sort of men to object that as a crime against others , which they are guilty o themselves : though indeed but that the presbiters use any weapons against the independant's , t is no crime at all , yea 't is excellency in any man or woman , not to be pertinacio●s , or obstinate in any opinion , but to have an open eare for reason and argument , against whatsoever he holds , and to imbrace or reject , whatsoever upon further search he finds to be agreeable to , or dissonant from gods holy word . it doth appeare from the practises of the presbiters , and from this letter and other petitions expresly against toleration , that unlesse the independants and seperation will submit their judgements to theirs , they shall never be tollerated , if they can hinder it . their . reason is that it is not yet knowne what the government of the independent is , neither would they ever let the world know what they hold in that point , ●hough some of their party have bin too forward to challenge the london petitioners as led with blind obedience , and pinning their soules upon their preists sleeve , for desiring an establishment of the government of christ , before there was any modell of it extant . their d. reason , is much to the same purpose . i answer , . that the ministers know that the independent government for the generall is resolved upon by the independents , though they have not yet modelized every perticular , which is a worke of time , as the framing of the pres●●terian government was . the independents however have divers reasons for dissenting from the presbyterian way , which they have given in already . and though they have not concluded every perticular of their owne , but are still upon the search , and enquiry ; yet it is seasonable however to move for toleration , for that the ground of moving is not because they are independents , but because ▪ every man ought to be free in the worship and service of god , compulsion being the way to increase , not the number of converts , but of hypocrites ; whereas it is another case for people to move for establishing of a government they understand not , having never seene it , as the london petitioners did , that is most evidently a giving up of the understanding to other men , sure the presbiters themselves cannot thinke it otherwise , nor yet the people upon the least consideration of it . besides , the london petitioners did not only desire , as here the ministers cunningly say , an establishment of the government of christ , but an establishment of the government of christ ( a modell whereof the reverend assembly of divines have fram'd , which they never saw ) so that herein , the people were abused by the divines , by being put upon a petition , wherein they suppose that government which they never saw , to be christs government . if this be not sufficient to discover to our presbyterian lay-brethren , the divines confidence of their abilitity to worke them by the smoothnesse of phrase and language to what they please , and of their own easinesse , and flexibility to be so led , i know not what is . . the ministers urge that the desires and endeavours of the independ●nts for toleration , are unreasonable , and unequall in divers regards . . partly because no such toleration hath heitherto been establisht ( sofar as we know ) in any christian state , by the civill magistrate . but that the ministers have been used to speake what they please for ● reason in their pulpits without contradiction , they would never sure have let so slight a one as this have past from them : it seems by this reason , that if in any christian state a toleration by the magistrate had been allowed , it would not have been unreasonable for our state to allow it : the practice of states , being here supposed to be the rule of what 's reasonable ; whereas i had thought , that the practice of christian states is to be judg'd by the rule of reason and gods word , and not reason by them : that which is just and reasonable , is constant and perpetually so ; the practice of states though christian , is variable we see ; different one from another , and changing according to the prevalency of particular partees , and therefore a most uncertain rule of what is reasonable . besides , the state of holland doth tollerate ; and therefore the ministers argument , even in that part where it seems to be most strong for them , makes against them . again , if the practice of a christian state , be a sufficien● argument of the reasonablenesse of a tolleration , our state may justly tollerate because christian , and because they are free to do what ever any other state might formerly have done . but i stay too long upon so weak an argument . . partly , because some of them have solemnly profest , that they cannot suffer presbitary , and answerable hereunto is their practice , in those places where independency prevailes . 't is unreasonable it seems to tollerate independents , because independents would not if they had the power , suffer presbyters . a very christianly argument , and taken out of the . of matthew . love your enemies , blesse them that curse you , do good to them that hate you , and pray for them which hurte you , and persecute you : what , were all our london ministers forgetfull of t●eir saviours instructions ? does their fury so farre blinde their understanding , and exceed their piety ? which seems to be but pretended now , since in their practice they would become jews , and cry out an eye for an eye , and a tooth for a tooth . whosoever meddles with them it seems , shall have as good as they bting : was ever so strange a reason urg'd by a sect of men , that say they are ministers , christs ministers , reformers too , that would make the world believe they are about to reduce all matters christian , to the originall and primitive excellency of christ and the apostles , and yet to speak and publish to the world a spleenish reason , so expressely contrary to the precepts , to the practice of christ and his followers . to christ i say , that bids us love our enemies , that we may be the children of our father which is in heaven , who makes the sun to shine on the evill and the good , and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust . the ministers should be like the master , what a dispro●ortion is here ? as if the title were taken up for some other end ; we know the apostle speaks of ministers that could transform themselves ●s though they were the ministers of righteousnesse ; i pray god our ministers do not so , i would willingly suppresse those fears and suspitions ; which , doe what i can arise in me , from their words and practice . sure they had approved themselves better christia●s , if upon the discovery of so bad a spirit in any of the independents ; as to persecute , had they power ( though i beleive , there are not any such ) i say , it had been more christ-like in our ministers , to have disswaded them from s●unmanly , so much more unchristianly a vice , then to have it made an argument for practice in themselves . they might by the same rule , be jewes to the jew , or turke to the turke , oppressours to the oppressour ; or doe any evill to others , that others would doe to them : if other mens doing of i● , be an argument of the reasonablenesse thereof . but i hope , our ministers will be so ingenious , as when they see their weaknesses forsake them , it will be both more comfortable to all other sorts of men , and in the end more happy for themselves . . again , i suppose your suggestion to be very false ; namely , that the independents if they had power , would persecute the presbyters : though let me tell you of all s●cts of men , those deserve least countenance of a state that would be persecutors , not because of their consciences in the practice and exercise of their religion , wherein the ground of freedome consists ; but because a persecuting spirit is the greatest enemy to humane society , the dissolver of love and brotherly affection , the cause of envyings , heart-burnings , divisions , yea , and of warres it selfe . whosoever shall cast an impartiall eye upon times past , and examine the true cause and reason of the subversion , and devastation of states and countries , will i am confident ; attribute it to no other , then the tyranny of princes , and persecution of priests . so that all states , minding their true interests , namely the good and welfare of the people , ought by all meanes to suppresse in every sect or degree of men , whether papists , episcopalls , presbyters , independents , anabaptists , &c. the spirit of domination , and persecution , the disquieter and disturber of mankind ▪ the offspring of satan . god being all love , and having so communicated himselfe unto us , and gave us commands to be like him , mercifull , as he our heavenly father is mercifull ; to bear with one anothers infirmities : neither does reason and true wisdome dictate any other to us , then that we should do unto others , as we would be done unto our selves ; that spirit therefore which is contrary to god , to reason , to the well-being of states , as the spirit of persecution evidently is ; is most especially to be watcht , and warily to be circumscribed , and tied up by the wisdome of the supream power in common-wealths . i speak not this to the disgrace of presbyters , as presbyters ; for as such , isuppose they are not persecutors : forasmuch as i know , some , and i hope there are many more of them , that are zealous and conscientious for that form of government , and vet enemies to a compulsive power in matters of religion . but for this end only , namely to beget a just and christian dislike in all sorts of men , as well presbyters , as others ; of forc●ng all to one way of worship , though disagreeable to their minds : which cannot be done , without the assistance of this fury and 〈…〉 . and partly to grant to them , and not to other ▪ sectaries who are free ▪ born ●s well as they , and have done as good service as they to the publick ( as they use to plead ) ▪ will be count●d injustice , and great partiality ; but to grant it to all , will scarce be cleared from impiety . to the former part of this argument i gladly consent , that sectaries have as good claimes to freedome ▪ as any sorts of men whatsoever ; because free-born , because well-affected , and very assistant to their country in its necessities . the latter part of the argument is only an affirmation , without proof ; the ministers think sure it will be taken for truth because they said it , for such a presumption it seems they are arrived to . in the mean time what must they suppose the people to be , that do imagine their bare affirmations ground for the peoples belief ▪ i would the people would learn from hence to be their own men , and make use of their own understandings in the search and beleif of things ; let their ministers be never so seemingly learned or judicious , god hath not given them understandings for nothing ; the submission of the mind is th most ignoble slavery ; which being in our own powers to keep free , the subjection thereof argues in us the greater basenesse ▪ but to the assertion , that it will be impiety to grant it to all sectaries . i answer , first , that the word sectary is communicable both to presbyters and independents , whether it be taken in the good sense for the followers ▪ of christ ; for such , all presbyters , independents , brownists , anabaptists , and all else , suppose and professe themsel●es to be : or in the common sense , for followers of some fewmen more eminent in their parts and abilities then other . and hereof the independents and presbyters are as guilty as the separation , and so are as well sectaries . now all sectaries , whether presbyters , independents , brownists , antinomians , anabaptists , &c. have a like title and right to freedome , or a toleration ; the title thereof being not any particular of the opinion but the equity of every mans being free in the state he lives in , and is obedient to , matters of opinion being not properly to be taken into cognisance any farther , then they break out into some disturbance , or disquiet to the state ▪ but you will say , that by such a toleration , blasphemy will be broached , and such strange and horrid ▪ opinions , as would make the eares of every godly and christian man to tingle ; what must this also be tolerated ? i answer , it cannot be just , to set bounds or limitations to toleration , any further then the safety of the people requires ; the more horrid and blasphemous the opinion is , the easier supprest , by reason and argument ; because it must necessarily be , that the weaker the arguments , are on one side , the stronger they are on the other ▪ the grosser the errour is , the more advantage hath truth over it ▪ the lesse colour likewise , and pretence there is , for imposing it upon the people . i am consident , that there is much more danger inn small , but speciously formed error , that hath a likenesse and similitude to truth , then in a grosse and palpable untruth . besides , can it in reason be judged the meetest way to draw a man out of his ●●ror , by imprisonment , bonds , or other punishment ? you may as well be angry , 〈…〉 ●●ripes or bonds to recover his sight how pr●posterous would this 〈◊〉 your ho●per ●nd mee● way ●u●e is to apply things 〈◊〉 to his cute . and so likewise to a man whose understanding is cloud●d , 〈…〉 and imperfect whose mind is so far mis-informed as to 〈…〉 or the scripture● ( for we instance in the worst of errors ) ●a● b●●lam or the fleet reduce such a one ? n● certainly ▪ it was ever found by all experience , that su●● rough 〈◊〉 did 〈◊〉 the error , not remove i● nothing can doe that but the 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 power of found reason and argument ▪ which , 〈◊〉 to b● doubted , they are 〈◊〉 furnisht withall that use other weapons ▪ hence have i observ ▪ d that the most weak & passionate men , the most unable to defend truth , or their own● opinion are the most violent for persecution ▪ whereas those whose minds are establisht ; and whose opinions are built upon firm and 〈◊〉 grou●d ●eare no● what winds blow● fear not to grapple with any e●ror , because they bo●●d ●n● they 〈◊〉 overthrow it ▪ . independency is a schisme , and therefore not to be tollerated . the principall argument brought to prove it , is this ▪ because they d●part from the presbyter churches , which are true churches , and so confost to ●o 〈◊〉 by ●he i●depend●nt● . i answer , that this argument only concerns the 〈◊〉 because they only acknowledge them to be true churches . whether they are still of that opinion o● no i know not , 't is to be doubted they are not , especially 〈◊〉 they have discern'd the spirit of enforcement and compul●ion to ●aig● in that c●ur●h ▪ the tr●est mark of a false c●urch . i believe the independents have ●●●ng'd their 〈◊〉 ● es●eially those of them whose pastors r●●●ive their office ●nd mi●is●try 〈◊〉 the election of the people or congregation , and are not engag'd to allow so much 〈◊〉 the presbyters , because of their own interest ▪ as deriving their calling from the bis●ops and pope ▪ for the making up a supposed succession from the apostles , who se● their own sakes are enforc'd to acknowledge the presbyter for ● true church , 〈◊〉 the 〈◊〉 are necessitated to allow the episcopall and papist church , true o● valid fo● the substance ▪ as they confesse in the ordinance for ordination , because they have receiv'd their ministery therefrom , without which absurdity they cannot maintain their succession from the apostles . but that the independents are not a schism , they have and will , i believe ▪ upon all●occa●ions sufficiently justifi● ▪ i shall not the●e●or● , ●ince it concerns them in particular , 〈◊〉 thereupon ▪ 〈…〉 to the supposed mischiefs which the ministers say will ●nevitably fo●low upon th●● toll●r●tion , both to the church and commonwea the first , to the church . . causelesse ●nd unjust revol●s from our ministery and congreg●tions . to this i say , that i● argues an abundance of distrust the ministers have in thei● own abilities , and the doctrines they pr●●ch , to suppose their ●uditors will for●●k● them if other men have liberty to speak . 't is authority it seems ●ust 〈◊〉 thei● churches , and not the truth and eff●a●cy of their doctr●nes . i j●dge it ●or my pa●●●●ufficient ground to suspect that for gold that can't abide a triall . it seems our ministers doctrines and religion , are like dagon of the p●ilistins , that will fall to pie●●s at the appearance of the ark . truth sure would be more confident , in hope to app●●● 〈…〉 glorious , being set off by falshood . and therefore i do adjure the ministers , from ●hat lovelinesse and potency that necessarily must be in truth and righteousnesse , if ●hey think they do professe it , that they ▪ would procure the opening of every mans mouth , in confidence that truth , in whomsoever she is , will prove victorious ; and ●ike the suns glorious lustre , darken all errors and vain imaginations of mans heart . but i fear the consequence sticks more in their stomacks , the emptying of their churches being the eclipsing of their reputations , and the diminishing of their profits ; if it be otherwise , le● it appear by an equall allowing of that to others , which they have labour'd so much for to be allowed to themselves . . our peoples minds will be troubled and in danger to be subuerted , acts . . a. the place of scripture may concern themselves , and may as well be urg'd upon them by the separation o● independents , as it is urg'd by them upon the separation and independen●s ; namely , that they trouble the peoples mindes , and lay injunctions upon them , they were never commanded to lay . and 't is very observable , the most of those scriptures they urge against the separation , do most properly belong unto themselves . . bitter heart-bur●ings a●ong brethren , will be foment●d and perpetuated to all posterity . i answer . not by , but fo● want of a tolleration : because the state is not equall in its protection , but allows one sort of men to trample upon another ; from hence must necessarily ●rise heart-burnings , which as they have ever been , so they will ever be perpetuated to posterity , unlesse the state wisely prevent them , by taking away the distinction that foments them ; namely , ( the particular indulgency of one party , and neglect of the other ) by a just and equall tolleration . in that family strife and heart-burnings are commonly multiplied , where one son is more cockered and indu●g'd then ●nother ▪ the way to foster love and amity , as well in a family , as in a state , being ●n equall respect from those that are in author●●y . . they say , the godly , painfull , and orthodo● ▪ ministers will bee discouraged und d●spis●d ▪ answ. upou how slight foundation is ▪ their reputation supported , that fear being despised unlesse author●●y forces all to church to them ? since they have confidence to vou●h themselves godly ▪ painfull , and orthodot , me thinks they should uot doubt an ●udience . the apostles could empty the c●urches , and jewish synagogues , and by the prevalency of their doctrine convert at a sermon ; and doe our ministers f●are , that have the opportunity of a church , and the advan●age of speaking ●n h●●re together without interruption , that they cannot keep those auditors th●y h●ve ; but that they sh●ll bee withdrawn from them by men of ●eaner 〈◊〉 ( in their esteeme ) by the illiterate and under-valued lay preachers , that ●r● ( as the ministers suppose ) under the cloud of error and false doctrine ? surely they suspect their own tene●ss or their abilities to maintain them , that esteem it a discouragement to bee opposed ▪ and feare they shall be despised if dispu●●d withall . . they say , the life and power of godlinesse will be eaten out by frivolous disputes and vain janglings . answ. frivolous disputes and vain janglings , are as unjustifiable in the people as in the ministery , but milde and gentle reasonings ( which authority are onely to countenance ) make much to the finding out of truth , which doth most advance the life and power of godlinesse . besides , a toleration being allowed , and every sect labouring to make it appear that they are in the truth , whereof a good life , or the power of godlinesse being the best badge or symptome ; hence will necessarily follow , a noble contestation in all sorts of men to exceed in godlinesse , to the great improvement of vertue and piety amongst us . from whence it will be concluded too , that that sect will be supposed to have least truth in them , that are least vertuous , and godlike in their lives and conversations . . they urge , that the whole course of religion in private families will be interrupted and undermined . answ. as if the independents and separation were not as religious in their private families , as the presbyters , . reciprocall duties between persons of nearest and dearest relations , will be extreamly violated . answ. a needlesse fear , grounded upon a supposition , that difference in judgement must needs occasion coldnesse of affection , which indeed proceeds from the different countenance and protection , which states have hitherto afforded to men of different judgements . hence was it , that in the most persecuting times ▪ when it was almost as bad in the vulgar esteem to be an anabaptist , as a murtherer , it occasioned dis-inheritings , and many effects of want of affection , in people of nearest relations ; but since the common odium and vilification is in great measure taken off , by the wise and just permission of all sects of men by the parliament , man and wife , father and son , friend and friend , though of different opinions , can agree well together , and love one another ; which shews that such difference in affection , is not properly the effect of difference in judgement , but of persecution , and the distinct respect and different countenance that authority has formerly shewn towards men not conforming . . they say , that the whole work of r●formation , especially in discipline a●d government , will be retarded , disturbed , and in danger of b●ing utterly frustrate and void . it matters not , since they mean in the presbyterian discipline and government , accompanied with persecution ; nay , it will be abundantly happy for the people , and exceedingly conducing to a lasting peace ( to which persecution is the greatest enemy ) if such a government so qualified be never setled . the presbyters i hope , will fall short in their ayms . ● . 't is not certain that the parliament mean to settle the presbyterian government , since they have not declared that government to be agreeable to gods word ; although the presbyters are pleas'd , in their expressions , frequently to call their government , christ● government . howsoever their determination ( which may well be suppos'd to be buil● upon their interest ) is not binding ▪ they are call'd to advise withall ▪ not to controul . . in case the parliament should approve of that government in the main , yet the prelaticall and persecuting power of it , we may well presume ( since they themselves may smart under it as well as the rest of the people ) they will never establish . . all other sects and heresies in the kingdome , will be encouraged to endeavour the like tolleration . sects and heresies ▪ we must take leave to tell them , that those are ●ermes impos'd ad placitum , and may be retorted with the like confidence upon themselves . how prove they separation to be sects and heresies ; because they differ and separate from t●em ? that 's no argument , unlesse they can first prove themselves to be in the truth ? a matter with much presumption suppos'd , but never yet made good , and yet upon this groundlesse presumption , the whole fabrick of their function , their claim to the churches , their preheminence in determining matters of religion , their eager persuit after a power to persecute , is mainly supported . if the separation are sects and heresies , because the presbyters ( supposing themselves to have the countenance of authority , and some esteem with the people , judge them so : the presbyters by the same rule were so , because the bishops once in authority , and in greater countenance with the people , did so judge them to be . and whereas they say , that sects and heresies will be encouraged to endeavo●r the like tolleration with the independents . i answer , that 't is their right , their due as justly as their cloths , or food ; and if they indeavour not for their liberty , they are in a measure guilty of their owne bo●dage ▪ how monstrous a matter the ministers would make it to be , for men to labour to be free from persecution . they thinke they are in the ●addle already , but will never i hope have the reines in their hands ▪ their th . feare is the same . . they say the whole church of england ( they meane their whole church of england ) in sh●rt time will be ●wallowed up with di●traction and confusion . these things are but laid , not proved : were it not that the divines blew the coales of dissention , and exasperated one mans spirit against another ; i am confidently perswaded we might differ in opinion , and yet love one another very well ; ●s for any distraction or confusion that might intrench upon that civill peace , the laws migh● provide against it , which is the earnest desires both of the independen●● and seperation . . they say , tolleration will bring divers mischiefes upon the common-wealth : for , . all these mischeifes in the church will have their proportionable influence upon the common-wealth . this is but a slight supposition , and mentions no evill that is like to befall the common-wealth . . they urge that the kingdome will be wofully weakned by scandalls and divisions , so that the enemies both domesticall ▪ and forraigne will be encouraged to plot and practise against it . i answer , that the contrary hereunto is much more likely , for two reasons . . there is like to be a concurrence , and joynt assistance in the protection of the common-wealth , which affords a joynt protection and encouragement to the people . . there can be no greater argument to the people , to venture their estates and lives in defence of their country and that government , under which they enjoy not only a liberty , of estate and person , but a freedome likewise of serving god according to their consciences , which religious men account the greatest blessing upon earth ; i might mention notable instances of late actions of service in independents and seperatists , which arising but from hopes of such a freedome , can yet scarce be paraleld by any age or story . . they say it is much to be doubted , lest the power of the magistrate should not only be weakned , but even utterly overthrowne ; considering the principles and practices of independents , together with their compliance with other sectaries , sufficiently knowne to be antimagistraticall . an injurious , but common scandal , this whereof much use has been made to the misleading the people into false apprehensions of their brethren the seperatists , to the great increase of enmity and disaffection amongst us , whereof the ministers are most especially guilty : let any impartiall man examine the principles , and search into the practises of the separation , and he must needs conclude that they are not the men that trouble england , but those rather that lay it to their charge : the seperation indeede and independents are enemies to tyranny , none more , and oppression , from whence i beleeve has arisen the forementioned scandall of them : but to just government and magistracy , none are more subject , and obedient : and therefore the ministers may do well to lay aside such obloquies , which will otherwise by time and other discovery , turne to their own disgrace . in the last place they say , 't is opposite to the covenant , . because opposite to the reformation of religion , according to the word of god , and example of the best reformed churches . i answer , , that the example of the best reformed churches is not binding ▪ further then they agree with the word of god , so that the word of god indeed is the only rule . now the word of god is expresse for tolleration , as appea●es by the parable of the tares growing with the wheate , by those two expresse and positive rules , . every man should be fully perswaded of the t●uth of that way wherein he serves the lord , . that whatsoever is not of faith is sinne ; and . by that rule of reason and pure nature , cited by our blessed saviour : namely , whatsoever ye would that men should do unto you , that do you unto them . . they say it is destructive to the . kingdomes nearest conjunction and uniformity in religion and goverment . i answer , that the same tolleration may be allowed in the . kingdomes , together with the same religion and government ; whether it shall be presbiterian , or independent , or anabaptisticall : besides that i suppose which is principally intended by this part of the covenant , 't is the union of the . kingdomes , and making them each desensive and helpfull to the other , which a tolleration will be a meanes to further , because of the encouragement that every man will have to maintaine his so excellent freedome ; which he cannot better do , then by maintaining them ●ll because of the independency they will have one upon the other . . 't is expresly contrary to the extirpation of schisme , and whatsoever shall be found contrary to sound doctrine , and the power of godlinesse . i answer , that when it is certainly determined by judges that cannot err , who are the schismaticks , there may be some seeming pretence to extirpate them , though then also no power or force is to be used , but lawfull means only , as the wise men have interpreted it ; that is , schisme and heresie , when they appeare to be such , are to be rooted out by reason and debate , the sword of the spirit , not of the flesh ; arguments , not blowes : unto which men betake themselves upon distrust of their own foundations , and consciousnesse of their owne inability . besides , as the presbiters judge others to be a schisme from them , so others judge them to be a schisme from the truth , in which sence only the covenant can be taken . . hereby we shall be involved in the guilt of other mens sinnes , and thereby be endangered to receive of their plagues . i answer , that compulsion must necessarily occasion both much cruelty and much hypocrisie : whereof the divines , labouring so much for the cause , which is persecution , cannot be guiltlesse . . it seemes utterly impossible ( if such a tolleration should be granted ) that the lord should be one , and his name one , in the . kingdomes . i suppose they mean by that phrase , it is impossible that our iudgements and profession should be one ; so i believe it is , whether there be a tolleration or no . but certainly the likeliest way , if there be any thereunto , is by finding out one truth ; which most probably will be by giving libetty to every man to speak his minde , and produce his reasons and arguments ; and not by hearing one sect only : that if it does produce a forc'd unity , it may be more probably in errour , then in truth ; the ministers being not so likely to deal clearly in the search thereof , because of their interests , ar the laity , who live not thereupon , but enquire for truth , for truths sake , and the satisfaction of their own mindes . and thus i have done with the argumentive part of the letter . i shall onely desire , that what i have said may be without prejudice considered : and that the people would look upon all sorts of men and writings , as they are in themselves , and not as they are represented by others , or forestall'd by a deceitfull rumour or opinion . in this controversie concerning tolleration , i make no question but the parliament will judge justly between the two parties ; who have both the greatest opportunity and abilities , to discern between the integrity of the one side , and the interest of the other . that the one party pleads for toleration , for the comfort and tranquility of their lives , and the peaceable serving of god according to their consciences , in which they desire no mans disturbance . that the other that plead against it , may ( i would i could say onely probably ) be swayed by interest and self-respects , their means and preheminence . i make no question but the parliament , before they proceed to a determination of matters concerning religion , will as they have heard one party , the divines , so likewise reserve one ear for all other sorts of men ; knowing that they that give sentence , all partees being not heard , though the sentence be just ( which then likely will not be ) yet they are unjust . besides , the parliament themselves are much concerned in this controvers●e , since upon their dissolution they must mixe with the people , and then either enjoy the sweets of freedome , or suffer under the most irksome yoke of priestly bondage : and therefore since they are concern'd in a double respect ; first , as chosen by the people to provide for their safety and freedome , whereof liberty of conscience is the principall branch , and so engag'd by duty : secondly , as members of the common-wealth , and so oblig'd to establish freedome , out of love to themselves and their posterity . i shall only add one word more concerning this letter , which is this ; that 't is worth the observation , that the same men are part of the contrivers of it , and part of those to whom 't was sent ; mr. walker being president of sion colledge , mr. seaman one of the deans , ( observe that word ) and mr. roborough , one of the assistants , all three members of the synod : who with the rest framing it seasonably , and purposely to meet with the letter from scotland , concerning church government , may w●ll remove the wonder and admiration that seem'd to possesse one of the scotch grand divines in the synod , at the concurrence of providence in these two let●ers : of the politick and confederated ordering whereof , he could not be ignorant . finis . considerations moving to a toleration and liberty of conscience with arguments inducing to a cessation of the penal statues against all dissenters whatever, upon the account of religion : occasioned by an excellent discourse upon that subject publish'd by his grace the duke of buckingham / humbly offered to the parliament at their next sitting at westminster. penn, william, - . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; 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(eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) considerations moving to a toleration and liberty of conscience with arguments inducing to a cessation of the penal statues against all dissenters whatever, upon the account of religion : occasioned by an excellent discourse upon that subject publish'd by his grace the duke of buckingham / humbly offered to the parliament at their next sitting at westminster. penn, william, - . [ ], p. printed for r. hayhurst, london : . reproduction of original in the union theological seminary library. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng buckingham, george villiers, -- duke of, - . -- short discourse upon the reasonableness of men's having a religion. liberty of conscience. religious tolerance -- england. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - apex covantage keyed and coded from proquest page images - john latta sampled and proofread - john latta text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion considerations moving to a toleration , and liberty of conscience . with arguments inducing to a cessation of the penal statutes against all dissenters whatever , upon the account of religion , occasioned by an excellent discourse upon that subject , publish'd by his grace the duke of buckingham . humbly offered to the parliament at their next sitting at westminster . tantaene animis coelestibus irae ? london , printed for r. hayhurst , . the epistle dedicatory . to his grace the duke of buckingham . my lord , t is with the highest veneration due to your graces illustrious worth and quality , that i presume to make this address to a person of your graces eminence and greatness . and indeed , the only encouragement for that confidence , is , that this discourse is onely listed under your graces banner . your grace has been pleased to be the first assertor of that justice , which in this age of the world , wanted onely so great a name to espouse and vindicate it . for alas , whatever ( tho never so rational ) has or could be urged in the defence of christian clemency and tenderness , by any less hand , would have been overbourn by the present impetuous torrent against it ; and therefore they only wanted so uninterested a champion as your grace to patronize them . if any less person had attempted it , presently the opprobious name of a non-con , or a tub-preacher , would have been thrown in his teeth , and all reasons whatever , upon a toleration , tho never so convincing , would have been instantly blasted ( how unjustly soever ) with the old brand of great is diana of ephesus , as if publish'd , maintain'd , and cryed up only for the service or interest of a party or faction . but your grace has the happiness of a station and character above the reach of so feeble and stingless a calumny , whilst your generous pen has been pleased to adapt that truth which malice may snarl at , but cannot bite . i confess indeed , the general , nay only arguments urged against a toleration , is that clamorous pretence , of its danger to the government , through an indulging of rebellious and antimonarchical principles , which under the mask and cover of tenderness of conscience , have been , or may be diffused thro' the kingdom , and several republick machinations and poysonous designs , have or may be hatcht and nourisht under the unhappy consequences of liberty of conscience . and truly , persecution for dissent , in matter of faith , without this plausible apology , would not have so much as a shadow of excuse to protect it from the infamy of a more than pagan piece of cruelty . but alas , this weak pretext , when truly and duely weigh'd , will quickly fall to the ground . for that there have been , and may be again , those atheistical and diabolical persons , who villanously , under the veil of religion , play the blackest of hypocrites , and carry on their own ambitious and damnable intregues , under that golden visor , is a most undoubted and too sad truth . but is that a sufficient plea , why those , whose utmost aime is the innocent worship of god , untainted with any such disloyal thoughts , should not only be loaded with their reproach , and stigmatized with their brand , but also be equally involved in their condemnation , viz. fined , harast , imprison'd , beggard , and ruin'd as such . if the government has had experience of those antimonarchical principles so fomented , undoubtedly that experience has given it discretion enough to prevent the future effects of them , and to distinguish betwixt the guilty and the innocent . let every judas therefore have his judas fate ; which may the wisdom of the nation and government take care to see executed : and those that urge the denyal of a toleration from their jealousie only of the forementioned danger , must certainly suspect a very great imbecility in the administration , that can find no better expedient , then rooting up the flower , to keep the spider from sucking poyson out of it . this whole discourse therefore , being absosolutely free from the least intention of favouring any of those false pretenders to religion and christianity , those wicked enemies of magistracy , the sacred ordinance of god , is only an endeavour to evince the reasonableness of a christian forbearance to our weak brother , purely and only as such . with this integrity and innocence , these considerations are made publick , and with no other recommendation durst the unknown author lay himself at your graces feet . considerations moving to a toleration , and liberty of conscience , &c. consideration i. it is not the will of the great and wise god , to appoint any forcible ways or courses to bring men and women to conform to his worship : but christ was pleased to commissionate his apostles ( to whom he committed the keyes of his church ) to preach and declare the christian doctrine : and they that succeed them in their office , are not by might or by power , but by gentle invitation , and the influence of his kind spirit , to inform the judgment , convince the conscience , and so to perswade the children of men to be reconciled unto god. and who is man that he should take another course , and will not rest in god's wisdome ? now we are ambassadors for christ , as though god did beseech you through us ; we pray you in christs stead , be ye reconciled to god. consideration ii. the using outward compulsion in matters of conscience , does only serve to make men hypocrites , but works no saving conversion . if men conform to any worship or way thereof , with an unwilling mind , they cannot serve god aright , though the worship be right , because the heart of the worshipper is not right . god calls for the heart , my son , give me thy heart . if it were not for compulsion , the man would be in some other practice or profession ; and when he conforms only to save his person or his purse , he is the servant of man , and not the servant of god , and this is not to save his soul. not by constraint , but willingly ; not for filthy lucre , but a ready mind . consideration iii. all sorts of persons are for liberty of conscience for themselves , even those that are most imposing upon others . they would account it hard measure to be constrain'd to perform , or forbear such and such things which concern their religion , or to suffer unproportionable penalties . and why should not the church protestants make the presbyterians , the independents , the papists case their own in this point , seeing they are all fellow-christians : therefore , whatsoever things ye would that men should do unto you , do ye so unto them , for this is the law and the prophets . consideration iv. the good rules of humanity , and common civility , which is carefully observed in smaller matters , are openly violated , by using of force in the matters of conscience . men abhor to thrust that meat and drink down their neighbours throat , which will not agree with their stomachs . they say commonly , pray take that which best likes you : and why are they not as civil in the matter of religion ? have compassion on one another , love as brethren , be pitiful , be courteous . consideration v. the church protestants in england have been distressed by hot doings heretofore in the reign of queen mary , when they were accounted criminals for not conforming to that worship which was then the established worship of the kingdom : and they should have taken heed before now of what they did , and of what spirit they be still of , in prosecuting others , seeing they know not how soon that part of the wheel which hath been , or is on the ground , may come to be at top , and fall the heavier on them upon this account , for with the same measure men meet withal , it shall be meeted to them again . consideration vi. the conforming and nonconforming protestants , and the protestants and papists , all do agree as to the substance of christianity , in the same articles of faith , and the same rule of manners , in the apostles creed , and the sen commandements . there is one body , one spirit , one lord , one faith , one baptisme . as a variety of flowers may grow on the same bank , so may protestants and papists live in england , union in affection , is not inconsistent with disagreement of opinion . there is much more reason to love one another for the many things wherein we agree , then to fall out for those wherein we differ ; and though we cannot have communion in the same external worship , we can and have communion in the same internal adoration of the same blessed trinity , and in the one hope of our calling unto life eternal , through jesus christ . we cannot come together in the same church , but may live together in the same land ; and as we are under the same gracious king , he may protect both and suffer no party to persecute one another . the woolf shall lie down with the lamb , the leopard with the kid , they shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain . consideration vii . the french protestants , who are the dissenters from the established worship of that kingdome , are kindly received and succoured by england . and when the french king is highly blamed by english protestants , and perhaps too by some english catholicks , for persecuting his peaceable subjects , shall we do the same things in our kingdome which we condemn in another ? therefore art thou inexcusable man , whosoever thou art , for thou that judgest another , dost the same things . consideration viii . the prosecuting dissenters and recusants for matters of conscience is of great disadvantage to the trade of the kingdom , the dissenters being a chief part of the trading people of the nation , considered as merchants , shop-keepers , clothiers , farmers , &c. by which many thousands of the kings poor subjects are maintained , and consequently liberty of conscience must be a most effectual means for the restoring of it . i will mention a story or two which may be easily attested , if they be called into question . one thomas peard about years since of west dean near barnstable , who kept many poor people at work in the cloathing trade , was prosecuted upon the act for twenty pound a month , so many months for not coming to church , that he was forced to quit his habitation and imployment . upon this the poor people of many parishes go a begging , and the numbers presently were so great , that the justices were fain to meet , and consulting together , conclude upon it to get the mans fines to be discharged . this being done , peard returns to his business , takes the poor off their hands , and finds them again the same living . in like manner , about years since , the bishop of sarum sends forth instructions into all the parishes of his diocess for bringing them to church , or citing them to his coutt . there were eighty clothiers nonconformists of several judgments in the county of wilts , who being alarum'd by this summons , think of withdrawing their trade , ( the time for provision of their wool favouring such a suspention ) but considering what a number of poor depended on them , some imploying , some a people under them , who were capable of getting no other maintenance : besides that , the farmer was no less concerned than the spinner and the carder , who could have no money for his wool ; fearing also that if they should give over on a suddain , there might so much clamour ensue as might turn into some uproar , they agree upon sending up eight or ten of their sufficient men to represent their case to the king and council . orders are taken hereupon that the arch-bishop writes to the bishop to desist , and assurance is given by both the secretaries to the clothiers for their safety in keeping on their imployment . what those justices and what the council at that time saw convenient for that shire , and those towns , will be discerned ( i doubt not ) by the considerate , to be of the like emolument throughout the nation . and this brings to my remembrance a certain prophesie , that is now much in mens mouths , and hath been going for scores of years , that after eighty five , england shall thrive : which though i have hitherto regarded ( i must confess , ) when i have heard the words but as rhime only , yet if it shall please the king at his coming now to the throne , to give liberty of conscience to his people , according to the design of this paper , i shall not doubt but to see the matter really accomplished . the riches of a nation are the bodies of men ; for the greatness of a kingdom certainly consists not in a vast continent of ground , but in the multitude of its inhabitants ; and the thriving of the people , lyes in the encrease of trade , manufacture and commerce , as is intimated . an act for universal toleration ( stated rightly , that is , of all , so far as they are tolerable , whereof the wisdome of a parliament is the fittest judge ) would produce both these ; it would bring people that are persecuted in our neighbour nations about their religion , to england , as it does , or hath done to holland ; and they must bring their hands and business with them . besides , the infinite incouragement it would give to many , who now keep in their monys , by reason of their obnoxiousness to the law , which they would bring forth most industriously into imployment , as soon as they could see themselves safe , and their consciences out of danger . and when issachar saw that rest was good , and the land that it was pleasant , he bowed his shoulder to bear , and became a servant unto tribute . consideration ix . it hath pleased our most gracious soveraign , king james the second ( whom god bless with a gentle mind , and good days ) to declare to his council , and then to the nation , that he will follow his deceased brother in his example of clemency , which we may hope for in this point of indulgence . we have his royal word for thus much , and his word , we all hear , may be presumed upon , so far as the meaning may be presumed . i do not therefore here presume upon his meaning , but the clemency of the late king , and tenderness to his subjects in his gracious purposes to indulge them in the point of liberty of conscience , does appear sufficiently to all men on record . in his declaration from breda , april . we do declare ( says he ) a liberty to tender consciences , and that no man shall be disquieted , or called in question for differences in opinion , in the matters of religion , which doth not disturb the peace of the kingdome ; and that we shall be ready to consent to such an act of parliament as upon mature deliberation shall be offered to us , for the full granting of that indulgence . in his declaration dated october . we do again renew what we have formerly said in our declaration from breda , for the liberty of tender consciences . that no man shall be disquieted or called in question for differences in opinion in matters of religion , which do not disturb the peace of the kingdom , and if any have been disturbed in that kind since our arival here , it hath not proceeded from any direction of ours . at the opening of the parliament on the eighth of may , . i do value my self much upon keeping my word , and upon making good whatsoever i promise to my subjects . again in his speech to both houses on july the th . it is to put my self in mind , as well as you , that i ( i think so often as i come to you ) mention to you my declaration from breda ; and let me put you in mind of another declaration published by your selves about the same time , which i am perswaded made mine the more effectual , an honest , generous , and christian declaration , signed by the most eminent . persons that had been the most eminent sufferers , in which you renounced all former animosities , and memory of former unkindnesses : and my lords and gentlemen , let it be in no mans power to charge me or you with the breach of our words or promises , which can never be a good ingredient for our future security . again in his declaration of decem. . concerning the non performance of our promises , we well remember the very words from breda , viz. we remember well the confirmations we have made of them , since upon several occasions in parliament , and as all these things are still fresh in our memory , so are we still firm in the resolution of performing them to the full . and further , we do still conceive our selves so far engaged both in honour , and what we owe to the peace of our dominions , which we profess we can never think secure whilst there shall be a colour left to the malitious and disaffected to inflame the minds of so many multitudes , upon the score of conscience , with despair of ever obtaining any effect of our promises for their ease . after all , we have his indulging declaration indeed , for fulfilling all his promises , and puting an end to a preceding violent prosecution of the act against conventicles , march . it being evident , by the sad experience of twelve years , that there is little fruit of all those forcible courses ; we think our selves obliged to make use of that supream power which is not only inherent in us , but hath been declared and recognized to be so by several statutes and acts of parliament , and therefore do now accordingly issue out this our declaration for the quieting the minds of our good subjects in these points , for inviting of strangers in this conjuncture to come and live under us , and for the better incouragement of all , to a chearful following their trade and callings , from whence we hope ( by the blessing of god ) to have many good and happy advantages to our government . there are many gracious sayings here might be added upon this , which the late king uttered in return to the ministers who brought him the thanks of several counties for this his declaration , fit to be recorded , as of extraordinary kindness , but seeing it hath pleased the divine providence to take him from us , who should have made them good , i am content they be interred with him . the words of our present soveraign are i am sure of more concernment now to us , which as they make all this which is brought to be material , and for which the whole nation is addressing him with their thanks ( among whom i know no cause why i may not bring also my oblation ) must not be omitted . since it hath pleased almighty god to place me in this station , and i am now to succeed so good and gracious a king , as well as so very kind a brother , i think it fit to declare to you , that i will endeavour to follow his example , and most especially in that of his clemency and tenderness to his people . then after five days ananias the high priest descended with the elders , and an orator named tertullus , who when he was called forth , spake thus , seeing that by thee we enjoy great quietness , and that by thee very worthy deeds have been done to this nation , we accept it always and in all places , most noble felix , with all thankfulness . these are some reasons ( among multitudes ) that fly abroad for toleration , and they are no pick'd chosen ones , but the most plain and obvious to the meanest capacity , such as i have catch'd up most easily , from the papers only of two ordinary sedulous men ; the one of them having had publick imployment about the wool and manufacture of the nation , and so is versed in these things ; the other having got , or kept such as these publick speeches by him , and collected these passages to my hand , only i have changed their stile , and abbreviated them , to avoid the baldness and prolixity : i will now add some testimonies for the same thing , out of an author of another character , but i will name neither one nor other , that i may not offend them or any body . and these testimonies which are argumentum ab authoritate , shall be my tenth and last consideration . consideration x. it is not like in the three first centuries of the church , that any thing is to be found in the christian writings , for the use of the sword in religion , whilst themselves were under it . in the next ensuing , we have constantine , constantius , jovian , valentinian , valens , theodosius , and after those , honorius and arcadius may be cited for their larger permissions , especially towards the jews , by those that will be at the pains to do it . in the year , idacius and ithacius were condemned by the gallican bishops for being authors of bringing the priscillianists to execution . and st. augustine no doubt with the fathers , generally are against any sanguinary laws in this matter . nullis bonis in catholica ecclesia hoc placet , si usqus ad mortem in quemquam haereticum saeviatur . contra or sconium lib. . cap. . hence were they called ithacians , and held for hereticks , who maintained , that those who erred in religion , ought to be put to death . and it is observed , it was dominick was the first that brought up the fire among christians upon that account . withdraw from them , avoid them ( says the scripture ) 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , but not beat or persecute them as the heathens do , says ignatius . for it is an unheard of , strange kind of preaching the gospel ( says gregory ) to exact belief ( as the egyptians their bricks ) with stripes . decere arbitramur ( says theodosius and valentinian ) nostrum imperium subditos nostros de religione commonefacere ; they chose not to say [ imperare ] but [ commonefacere ] signifying thereby , that religion ought not to be forced . nihil enim ( says lactantius ) tàm voluntarium quàm religio , in qua si animus est sacrificantis aversus , jam sublata , jam nulla est . religio imperari ( says cassidoce ) non potest . and , suadenda est ( says st. bernard ) non imperanda . praecepit sancta synodus ( says the toletan council , de judaeis ) nemini deinceps ad credendum vim inferre . and the new law ( says tertullian ) does not vindicate it self ultore gladio . the jewes took no such course ( as pestilent as their doctrine was ) with the sadduces , nor christ with the samaritanes , see luke . . matth. . , . john . . john . . and will ye also go away , says christ to the twelve ? which are words removing all force and necessity from man in the choice of his religion . so chrysostome , athanasius , cyprian , i may also add augustine and salvian . we may read in the life of josephus , when some of the traohonites came in for rescue to the jews , where himself was governour , and the jews would thereupon constrain them to be circumcized , or else not let them abide with them , he would not permit that injurious zeal , alledging , that every man ought according to his own mind , and not by mans compulsion to serve god. in our english story ( to fuit this ) by bede , when ethelbert the first prince that received christianity of the saxon heptarchy , was converted by austin , sent hither by gregory , and many thereupon came into the church , it is said , he especially embraced those that came in , but compelled none ; for he half learned that the faith and service of christ ought to be voluntary , and not of constraint . it helpeth much ( says the imperial edict of constantine and lirinus ) to establish the publick tranquillity , for every man to have liberty to use and choose what kind of worshipping himself pleases ; and for that intent is this done of us , to have no man enforced to one religion more than to another . a prince who would draw his subjects ( divided into sects and factions ) to his religion , should not ( in my opinion ) use force , says bodin ; which he enhances more particularly from the example of theodosius toward the a●rians . john barclay ( not william that wrote adversus monarchomachos ) hath a discourse on purpose to this effect about the calvinists , ( as it is thought ) under the name of the hyperephanians , in one chapter of his argenis . and camerartus in his historical meditations , hath a chapter as learned , full , and grave , as need to be on this subject , lib. . cap. . it was observed by the popes council ( says guicciardine ) that the prosecution of luther , since it was not accompanied with their own reformation , did encrease his reputation ; and that it had been a less evil to dissemble the knowledge of such a matter , which would perhaps have dissolv'd of it self , than by blowing at the brand , to make the fi●e burn the more . there may be some notes conferred with this out of davilah , upon the deliberations of the politick ka 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , regent of france , about the pacification in her son henry the thirds time ; i will rest in one after henry the fourth succeeded . that great prince thought fit to declare himself catholick , but gets that same edict for liberty to the hugonots , to be renewed and passed the parliament of par● . by which means endeavouring to remove suspicion from their minds , and confirming them by good usage together with some gifts and promises to the chief heads , he insensibly took away ( says the historian ) the pulse and strength of that party , so that those that are versed in the kingdom , believe that a few years of such sweet poyson ( if he had not been disabled in this course through want of money ) would have extinguished that faction , which so many years of desperate wars had not , with the effusion of so much blood , been able to weaken . violent courses ( says my lord cooke ) are like hot waters , that may do good in an extremity , but the use of them doth spoil the stomach , and it will require them stronger and stronger , and by little and little they will l●ssen the operation . they that have this common-wealth ( says judge jenkins ) will use means together with the restitution of the king , to procure an act of oblivion , and tender consciences a just and reasonable satisfaction , else we must all perish first or last . i will crown these testimonies with the experienced advice of charles the first to our late soveraign : beware of exasperating any faction by the crosness and asperity of some mens passions , humours for private opinions employed by you , grounded onely on the differences in lesser matters , which are but the skirts and suburbs of religion , wherein a charitable connivance , and christian toleration , often dissipates their strength , whom a rougher opposition fortifies , and puts their despised and oppressed party into such combinations , as may most enable them to get a full revenge on those they count their persecutors , who are commonly assisted by that vulgar commiseration , which attends all that are said to suffer under the notion of religion . there are two rules in the preamble of the statute primo mariae ; the one is , that the state of a king standeth more assured by the love of his subjects , than in the dread and fear of laws . the other is , that laws justly made , without extream punishment , are more often , and for the moct part better obeyed , than those that are made with that extremity . unto which my once before named lord chief justice cook , subjoyns this sentence , m●tius imperanti melius paretur . i will close up all with the end of a speech of sir orlando bridgeman to the parliament , when he was lord keeper . if any just grievances shall have happened , his majesty will be as willing and ready to redress them , as you to have them presented to him ; and his majesty doubts not , but you will give healing and moderate counsels , and imprint that known truth in the hearts of his subjects , that there is no distinct interest between the king and his people , but the good of one , is the good of both . now this is the copy of the letter which artaxerxes gave unto ezra the priest , i make a decree , that all they of the people of israel , and of his priests and levites in my realm , which are minded of their own free will to go up to jerusalem , go with thee . and gamaliel stood up in the council , and said , ye men of israel , take beed to your selves , refrain from these men , and let them alone , for if this counsel or this work be of men , it will come to nought ; but if it be of god , ye cannot overthrow it , lest haply ye be found even to fight against god. finis . the dew of hermon which fell upon the hill of sion, or, an answer to a book entituled, sions groans for her distressed, &c. offered to the king's majesty, parliament, and people wherein is pretended to be proved by scripture, reason, and authority of fifteen ancients, that equal protection under different perswasions, is the undoubted right of christian liberty : but hereby confuted, wherein the power and proceedings of the kings majesty and the church are vindicated. h. s. (henry savage), ?- . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing s estc r ocm this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) the dew of hermon which fell upon the hill of sion, or, an answer to a book entituled, sions groans for her distressed, &c. offered to the king's majesty, parliament, and people wherein is pretended to be proved by scripture, reason, and authority of fifteen ancients, that equal protection under different perswasions, is the undoubted right of christian liberty : but hereby confuted, wherein the power and proceedings of the kings majesty and the church are vindicated. h. s. (henry savage), ?- . [ ], , [ ] p. printed for h. robinson ..., london : . "epistle dedicatory" signed: h.s. attributed to henry savage by wing and nuc pre- imprints. "some copies are called 'toleration, with its principal objections fully confuted, or, an answer'"--dnb. errata on p. 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in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng religious tolerance -- great britain. royal supremacy (church of england) - tcp assigned for keying and markup - apex covantage keyed and coded from proquest page images - john latta sampled and proofread - john latta text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion the dew of hermon which fell upon the hill of sion . or an answer to a book entituled , sions groans for her distressed , &c. offered to the kings majesty , parliament , and people . wherein is pretended to be proved by scripture , reason , and authority of fifteen ancients , that equal protection under different perswasions , is the undoubted right of christian liberty . but hereby confuted , wherein the power and proceedings of the kings majesty and the church are vindicated . . per. . , , . but there were false prophets among the people , as there shall be false teachers among you — by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of . jude . these filthy dreamers defile the flesh , despise dominion , and speak evil of dignities . jude . these are murmurers , complainers . jude . these be they who separate themselves , sensual , having not the spirit . london , printed for h. robinson , and are to be sold at the sign of the three pigeons in sr. paul's church-yard . . imprimatur . geo. stradling s. t. p. rev. in christo pat. d. gilb. epise . lond. a sac. domest . ex aed . sab. . feb. . for colonel r. atkins , one of the deputy lieutenants of the county of gloucester . sir , i have perused the pamphlet you left at my lodging , and [ according to your desire grounded upon the consideration of the advantages , which seditious persons suck , in things of this nature , from the silence of the orthodox ] given you my sense of it . which task [ if it prove satisfactory to any , and particularly to render that friend of yours , and of your most accomplisht lady's , steddy , who is yet balancing in her resolutions ] i shall put upon the account of favours done to , sir , your humble servant h. s. the contents . sect. . the events of these times the same with those after the passion of christ : only those were meerly eventual , these consequential . three churches in three persons of one house . the golden rule of our saviour wrested by our adversaries . fears and jealousies , like those that caused the war , causeless . sect. . their epistle dated the eighth day of the third moneth . the vanity of such date evidenced in answer to three queries . . what the moneths in scripture were ? . by what names they were called . . when they began ? and herein . what was the first moneth ? . when was the first day of that moneth ? what the rabbies amongst these men understand by the first month ? their affectation of singularity . sect. . how cheap the shedding of mens bloud was to them , which now they would have prevented towards themselves . they would have none but arbitrary government . of all , they dislike kingly most . what is meant by the harlot in the apocalypse , which they would have understood of the pope only . simon magus the deceiver . those that work in his vertue and power , antichrists . the harlot like a bird of prey . the men of this generation compared to the cast of sacres , that made the eagle their quarry . the pope and they meet in the antipodes . the history of stork , stubner , and muntzer , ring-leaders of the fanaticks . their practises to deceive . that they are antichristian . their sacriledge , and their pretext for it . sect. . the use of musick in churches . commanded in scriture in every thing that tends to edification . musical instruments , whether wind or stringed , and chromatick musick allowable , not typical . those that are against the use of it under the new testament , would have it to be they know not what themselves . and if any thing , it is what we hold it to be . sect. . vestments , distinctions of persons serving and of services under the gospel allowed by the law of moses , and of nature . no vestments but vices reprehended in the heathen in the new testament . the druides sacrificed not only in white , but under oaks , which by them were had in veneration , and which the men of this generation seem to allow of , in as much as upon all their crowns and scepters , which they wore and bore , they placed the acorn instead of the crosse , a figure which the devil cannot abide . of happy presage to us . they confute themselves by condemning of us . and in justifying themselves they justifie us a fortiori . nothing but order and decency in our ceremonies . sect. . bishops . timothy and titus were bishops , so were the angels of the seven churches in the apocalypse , in the judgement of old doctor reynolds , doctor usher , and grotius . how the bishops resemble the high priests ? and the whole frame of church-government answers to the like order and distinction under the old testament . a scheme thereof drawn by bishop andrews . the ministers of the new testament do succeed to priests and levites , as the lords day does to the sahbath . the lords prayer contains not only ancient forms in use among the jews , but also the very design of the sacrifices under the law. the comparison made . the lords prayer the first liturgy . the jurisdiction of the bishops proved . . as to their power , . as to the distribution of their power : and both out of the new testament . their right of sitting in parliament asserted . sect. . of churches . the lawfulnesse of them proved from the example of primitive christians in the new testament . . their conveniency proved , . in respect of their capacity for the diocesse and parishes . . in respect of their scituation in relation to the diocesse and parishes . . in respect of their scituation of east and west . christians anciently adored towards the east . of the church at richlieu in france , whose altar stands at the west-end . of covent-garden church in london . . convenient for the scituation of parts within themselves . they are naves inversae . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in them , what ? some built with a single crosse , some with a double , and why ? the mark in ezekiel . . was the crosse , and that proved not only from the figure of the letter tau , which was anciently a crosse , but also that in all probability it must be so , though it be , set a mark , or mark a mark , and no more in our translation . the necessity of churches proved . no stumbling-block to the jews or gentiles . sect. . how they slander the good laws of the kindome . the same thing they impute to us , is applicable to themselves . the harlot in the apocalypse why so called ? the integral parts of antichrist . their fury and hypocrisy parallel'd by those in france . english scottizing , &c. rebellion under pretence of religion unwarrantable . sect. . of magistrates . their power is of god , and how ? religion the foundation of all government , proved by several arguments . answer , to their arguments of receiving the alcoran , and becoming papists in some cases . a threefold book put into magistrates hands . an errour in government , which is accidental makes not void his power . their second argument answered , their third argument answered , their fourth answered , their fifth answered . what power the church hath to decree rites and ceremonies . their argument taken from the ceasing of the cross of christ answered . their argument from the example of gallio answered . sect. . the second part of their proposition answered , viz. that the magistrate hath no power in gods worship as he is a christian . the magistrates called gods anointed ones . aphorism of k. james against too much severity . force to be used . of the apostles delivering over unto satan . of dividing the inheritance and ridding the temple . sect. . cor. . . expounded . mat. . . expounded . pet. . , . exponnded . distinction of powers . episcopus puerorum , what pragmatica sanctio , imperium supra imperium , and imperium ab imperio avulsum , what ? the greatest domineering power is in the men of this generation . the execrable fact of schucker the disciple of melchior rinchius , who cut off his brothers head by inspiration . sect. . that place of mat. . let both grow together till the harvest , expounded and justified both as it notes the event of gods providence , and as it notes the duty of the civil magistrate . sect. . their argument taken from the fallibility of magistrates answered . their argument from the no such need of magistrates now as under the old testament answered . a threefold judgement of the church . their argument taken from mistakes in holland , and from fallibility of councils answered . sect. . their argument taken from the royal law of whatsoever ye would that men should do unto you , &c. answered . persecution in scripture-sense what ? most convenient that all things be determined by laws . lex talionis necessary in every good body of laws . the temple of the graces how set ? something of necessity must be left to the bosome of the judge . private men know not what they would be , should they come to govern . sect. . christian prudence in a magistrate a supposition of theirs answered . in what cases the civil sword may capitally punish , proved out of the law. and that it hinders not the conversion of a sinner . that magistrates have the same power under the new testament , as they under the old had , proved out of scripture . the question why idolatry and blasphemy are punished with death , and not cursing of father or mother , man-stealing , adultery , and sabbath-breaking ? answered . their argument taken from the advantages that the jews had in judging of causes , answered . the argument taken from the different dispensations of the law and the gospel answered . that of cor. . . expounded . judaei & caelicolae law made against them . their argument taken from toleration in other places answered . pragmatica sanctio , what ? the censure of the sorbon against the temporal power of the pope . the committing of reformation to pope or people an errour . liberty makes not for the security of princes . the carriage of jeroboam parallel'd in our days , they urge it against us , but it makes against themselves . sect. . liberty granted by the kings declaration from bredah answered . argument taken from dr. taylor , now lord bishop of down and conner answered . our adversaries abuse him in making their authours separatists from themselves , &c. the . persecutions in the first . years . persecution otherwise taken in the scripture then in the law. how , imposing , and lording , &c. came in with the train and retinue of antichrist , and how not ? humane laws bind the conscience in themselves , not for themselves . severe laws made against hereticks , and what they were . king james his embassy to the states of holland touching vorstius . moderation of the church of england touching things disputable of toleration in germany , savoy , polonia , roan . who the first preachers of force and violence ? of begging fryars , &c. of the lollarots . spiritnal drunkenness worse then corporal . the greatest drunkards where greatest liberty of opinion . disputations seldome produce good effects , and why ? the dew of hermon which fell upon the hill of sion . sect. . in the epistle to the reader , they compare these times to that of our saviours passion , wherein the same things , they say , are fallen out ▪ which our saviour foretold should come to passe after his passion , viz. that the father hath been divided against the son , and the son against the father , three against two , and two against three , even a mans foes have been they of his own houshold : and it is very true that they say herein , namely , that the same things have fallen out now , as then , but with this difference , viz. that those divisions which were predicted by our saviour to come to passe after his death , were meerly eventual as receiving , no causality or real influx from the passion os our saviour , whose legacy to his church was peace and unity , given by his testament , and sealed with his blood : whereas these divisions are not meerly eventual , but consequential too , necessarily following , as an effect does its cause , upon the removal of the impediment . for it hath been long ago cleared up to the world , that these things had been brewing above threescore years before they came to passe , but never ripe for execution till the passion , or the captivity of the king : whereupon the foundations were cast down , and the sinews of government broken ; which once removed out of the way , then did that shew it self openly , which barclay in his icon animorum observes to have been practised privately before , viz. the sons excommunicating the father , and the father the sons : lastly , one son excommunicating the other , till three churches were found in three persons of one house , if it be not a solaecisme so to speak . and truly , to use their own words , he is a stranger in this our israel , that hath not seen these things . and whereas for their pretence , they alledge the golden rule of our saviour , viz. all things whatsoever ye would that men should do unto you , the same do ye also unto them : our saviour never intended hereby to loosen the reins of government , and to let them lye upon ▪ the necks of those that are like horse or mule that have no understanding , whose mouths must be held with the bit and bridle of the law ; but this he would have to be understood of a well governed will , subjected to right reason : otherwise a criminal at the bar might say to the judge , my lord [ nay he must call him sirra too ] you passe sentence of condemnation upon me , and therefore i suppose you willing , according to our saviours rule , that i passe the same upon you : let us therefore change places for a while , and so we shall both , in three dayes , take our turnes at tiburn , or else pardon one the other for what is past , and give mutual liberty to do what we please for the time to come , and so not only become the sons of the free woman , but be freed from that bondage , which those of the bond-woman would bring us into [ it is the very metaphor which they here pursue ] which if the judge refuses [ and he is mad if he does not ] then does he [ in the sense of the authors ] offer violence to the conscience of the offenders , as hereafter will appear . and least this violence and oppression should terminate in the bloud of those , which are dear to god , they have , as they say , committed this to the view of all men , &c. these are the fears and jealousies , which have occasioned the spilling of so much innocent bloud as has been of late shed , which cries so lowd against the men of their generation [ as they call themselves ] that i do not wonder they are afraid of their own [ though they fear where no fear is ] till cain became the shedder of his brothers bloud , he never cried that the next man which met him should slay him . this fear and jealousy was then and is now a meer slander of the good laws and practice of the king , as i shall have occasion hereafter to shew . sect. . this epistle ended , they date it the eighth day of the third moneth ; which of it self notes their inclination to thwart all the world though it be for nothing but their mindes sake . and albeit they come with a seeming resolution of admitting of no proofs but what are taken out of the new testament , yet have no pattern at all for this their manner of dating , but what they are beholden to the old testament for [ for in the new they have no footstep of it at all ] wherein they become guilty of a threefold vanity : which i shall discover upon the resolution of three queries . . what the moneths in scripture were ? . by what names they were called ? . when they began ? for answer to the first , i say . that the hebrews seemd at first to measure their moneths according to the course of the sun , calling them menses solares , every moneth consisting of thirty daies : for the scripture saies , that the waters prevailed from the seventeenth day of the second moneth , gen. . . unto the seventeenth day of the seventh moneth , gen. . . that is , full five moneths , and if we will number the daies , they were one hundred and fifty , gen. . . whereby it is evident that every moneth contained full thirty daies . after the israelites departure out of egypt , they measured their moneths by the course of the moon : and because the year of the synodical or consequential moneths of the moon [ which are the longest of lunar moneths ] comes short of the year of the sun by eleven daies , and a fourth part , hence the jewes and greeks too , every eight years made an embolisme , h. e. an intercalation or interjection of three moneths , as the centurists have noted out of affricanus , cen. . l. . c. . and albeit st. aug. de civ . dei. l. . c. . and with him others do hold that they reckoned by menses lunares , as well before as after the giving of the law : yet the same father in the same place gives to every moneth thirty daies , whereas the full synodical moneth of the moon is but twenty nine daies , twelve hours , and fourty four minutes , as lud. vives hath observed upon him : whereunto garcaeus addes three seconds and twelve thirds , tract . de temp. can. . these things being so , they must tell us what moneths they mean , whether the moneths of the sun , or the moneths of the moon ? and if of the moon , then whether the periodical or synodical moneth from the beginning whereof they reckon their eighth day ? otherwise they might have left out their date to this epistle , in as much as dates are to be certain . for answer to the second . before the captivity in babylon the moneths in scripture are almost all reckoned [ without name ] according to the order of their calender , by first , second , and third moneth , &c. after their return from captivity they counted them all by names according to the examble of the assyrians and chaldeans , amongst whom they lived , and with whom the studie of the mathematicks flourished , some of those they borrowed from the chaldeans , whereof mention is made in zachary , esther , nehemiah , &c. neither do i finde that under or after the captivity , they expressed their moneths at all by numeral words . 't is true that luc. . , . mention is made of the sixth moneth : but it 's not to be construed of the general account of the whole year , but of that particular thing , viz. the sixth moneth from the conception of john baptist in the womb of his mother elizabeth , which compute might begin any day of any stated moneth , as well as the first of the first moneth , viz. any day of jiar , sivan , thamus , cisleu , &c. as well as the first of nisan or tisri : and indeed the ecclesiastical tradition is that this compute began six moneths before the twenty fifth of march , though those that are against the celebration of christmass [ which depends hereon ] contend against it : but their arguments are meerly destructive , and brought to puzzle the truth , not to prove any thing at all . now to apply all this . if the people of god did not scruple to call their moneths by the same name as the chaldeans did , among whom they lived , and never after by the first , second ▪ and third , &c. as they had done before ; why do these men now begin to make it a matter of conscience to do otherwise , and that without example in all the new testament , or in the old testament after the return from the captivity ; or lastly , of any reformed church in christendome , which use the same name ; of moneths , and the same order of their calender , as the state wherein they live does . the third querie is , when the moneths mentioned in scripture began their account of first , second , and third , & c ? for resolution whereof it will be requisite to answer to two queries , . what was the first moneth ? . when was the first day of that moneth ? to the first i answer , that buxtorfe will tell you , in his jewish synagogue , out of the talmud , that the jews had four seasons of the year , which they called the first moneths in several respects . but certain it is , out of the scripture it self , that before their coming out of egypt ▪ the moneth tisri was their first moneth , which began about the autumnal equinox [ for it is called the feast of ingathering , which is perfected in the end of the year levit. . . [ and to the end of the old year , immediately succeeds the beginning of the new ] the same continued for civil affairs . after their coming out of egypt , their year began in the moneth nis an , or abib , which was about the vernal equinox , exod. . . then it was that god first said , this moneth shall be to thee the beginning of moneths , viz. in order to sacred solemnities , h. e. all the ceremonies of the law. to the second i answer , that of these moneths of the hebrews no certain time of beginning can be shewen , by reason of the anticipation of equinoxes , and the new moons not recurring in the same moments of time . the modern jews , and others that follow them , refer the first moneth nis an to our march ; and it is manifest , that this moneth was called , the moneth of new fruits or ears of corn , because then did the corn put forth full ears , exod. . . the barley was in the ear , and the flax was bolled before they came out of egypt : and this moneth is called , josh . . . the time of harvest , because then did harvest begin : whence it is probable , that this first moneth was a little later then the time of our march : which is yet more evident from the time of the vernal equinox , which in the time of julius caesar fell the twenty fifth of march , not the tenth or eleventh , as now it does : the sacred vear therefore of the jews beginning about the vernal equinox , it follows , that most of , or all the first moneth thereof , must fall in april . the like may be said of the first moneth of the civil year , which may begin in the middle or end of september , or beginning of october with us . now then , these authors dating their epistle the eighth day of the third moneth who can tell whether they mean the third from the vernal , or the third from the autumnal equinox , h. e. from the beginning of the ceremonial or civil year ? all ceremonies they set themselves against , unlesse of their own devising ; and no civil constitutions will their conscience be bound by : wherefore in what moneth of the year , or in what day of the moneth , to find such men , that do not know where to find themselves , is more then i can do . some of them [ and one of the greatest rabbies amongst them ] have dated things in the first moneth , commonly called march ; whom therefore the ceremonial year seems to pleasebest ; though the vanity thereof appears from hence , viz. that this sacred year , and the several periods thereof , was no more to the dating of any thing with the jews , then advent , and the weeks or moneths following it , are with us ; in as much as it was not by the sacred , but the civil year that they reckoned the payments of tythes , the payment of debts , the discharge of contracts , their jubilees , their sabbatical year , and what not ? i should think then , that if they dislike our account , which is reckoned from the time of the conception of our saviour , announced by the angel to the blessed virgin , they then should reckon from the first moneth following the nativity of christ , h. e. january , the beginning whereof is the christian and julian epocha . but such direction is the ready way to teach them to do the quite contrary , the design of hereticks having ever been to gain glory by a singularity of knowledge ; and of these in particular to speak something which they understand not themselves , rather then be understood by others . sect. . the epistle to the reader thus dated and subscribed by six men , all as yet in communion together , they begin their tractate with a specious title , which they call sober endeavours to prevent innocent bloud , and to stablish the nation in the best of settlements . but when their party ruled , wofull experience tells us , how cheap other mens bloud was to them , and how far they desired the best of settlements , when they strove against all government but an arbitrary one : and among all governments which they dislike , that of kings seems chiefly io stick upon their stomacks , because the nations of the world with their kings [ not with their protectors and rvmpers ] are said to drink the wine of the fornication of that abominable harlot ; where , by harlot they would have only the pope understood , whereas its dominatio romana , the government or rule of [ not the pope , but the emperours ] of rome , as hugo grotius , and dr. hammond have observed : and indeed the emperours at that time , whereunto this relates , did rerum potiri . if they will not trust hugo grotius , let them believe johannes grossius of geneva , upon the apocalypse : the anagram of whose name is ( as himself makes it ) sis organon jesu : who speaks , though not the same thing , yet enough to prove what i pretend to : for expounding the thirteenth , c. saith , that two things are signified by the seven heads : . the mountains whereon the woman is set . . so many heads and sorts of governments successively . the five first of those governments , viz. the kings , the consuls , the dictators , the decemvirs , and the tribunes , were abolisht in the time of st. john ; the sixth , viz. the emperours , was then in vigour , and the seventh , viz. the popes , was not as yet , being not made soveraign at rome : for st. john sayes , chap. ▪ v. . that the one was , and the other was not yet come . the ten horns , sayes he , are ten provinces depending on the empire of rome , that is to say , the more principal , viz. . italy , . spaine , . the gaules . . almain , . hungary and bulgaria , . greece , . asia minor , called at this day natolia , . syria and assyria . . egypt , . affrica : and chap. . v. . the number of the beast is the number of a man : that is , sayes he , a number wherewith men serve themselves ordinarily . now st. john writes to the greek churches , and in the greek language : but the greeks ( as also the hebrews ) are wont in numeration to serve themselves of letters of the alphabet . this number then stands thus , λ α τ ε ι ν ο σ   ל ו מ י י ת   hereunto it is objected , that ( latinos ) is not written with ( ei ) but with a single ( i ) whereunto he answers , that this is a childish objection , in as much as it is notoriously known , that the greeks do often write the ( i ) latin , by ( ei ) and that the latins themselves pronounced ( i ) by ( ei ) the which pronunciation ( sayes he , and that truly ) is common and ordinary among the english at this day . it is true , that some among us do affect to pronounce ( i ) everywhere , as forreigners do , without any regard whether it be long or short , ut supra communem hominum sortem sapere videantur : but for mine own part , in forreign places , and among forreigners , i have pronounced it as they do ; not that it is better in it self , but that i might be the better understood by them ; as generation , in france , i would pronounce jeneration , in germany γeneratio ; regem , in france , rejem , in germany reγem , and so of a number of other words . but to return from my digression , this being enough to prove the harlot to be a latin and of rome , but not to be the pope only . to take it in their own sense , they would have our king to be one of those kings ; but they confute themselves by their own words following , wherein they say , that this harlot sitteth upon peoples , and multitudes , and nations , and tongues , and by her sorceries deceives all nations ▪ &c. for how does this harlot sit upon our king and people , when we abjure all preheminences upon earth above the king , and the king acknowledges no superiour but god ? the deceiver mentioned thes . . they seem to make all one with this harlot : but dr. hammond will have thereby simon magus to be understood . this simon magus was the ring-leader of the gnosticks , he sate in the temple of god , called god by the emperour claudius , who caused a statue to be erected by liber , between the two bridges , with this inscription , simont deo sancto , to simon the holy god ; and he had all rites of divine worship performed to him by the samaritans . yea , those that hold the popes only to be antichrist , are driven to say , that they are so , as far only as they work by signs and lying wonders in the vertue and power of simon magus : and if they will have a dominion and rule joyned to it , then it must be so far forth as they in their actings resemble that dominatio romana , or roman rule and domination . and this is called harlot , a female , for dominatio , vertus and potentia are feminines : and it is observable , that the caliphs or saracenical popes [ who vested themselves in all power spiritual and temporal ] are of the feminine gender . whose power , ( as are and were most of the eastern governments ) was tyrannical , set up by mahomet , who compiled his divellish doctrine , beginning his empire about the same time that boniface the third assumed his antichristian title beginning his empire , there being but eleven years between them . tyrannical government and governours are as birds of prey ; amongst which sort of birds the female is ever the largest , boldest , and most morose : insomuch that a cast of sacres once set upon an eagle , and having buffetted and wearied him a good , made him descend to the earth by the force of their blows : the faulconer proud hereof , bragged of it before him of the ottomans , who took constantinople , who caused their necks to be wrung off , for enterprizing upon their king : which may very fitly be applyed to the men of this generation , who may justly be called sacres [ quasi quodvis sacrum aucupantes , imo sacram majestatem debellantes ] who not contented to prey upon the persons and estates of other of their fellow subjects , seize upon majesty it self ▪ accounting themselves the only ( sacri ) saints which ought to possess the earth upon the account of grace , as the pope and his party does in ordine ad spiritualia ; both of them fitly resembling the madness of thrasilaus ( or , as some say , thrasimene ) the athenian , who made account that all the ships which came into the haven were his own , and would be very angry with those that went about to reclaim him from so sweet an errour : these are like mariners that sail from the same port contrary wayes in the world to make proselytes , but meet together in the antipodes . the popes pretend to sanctitas when in many things it is mera fatuitas , as his holinesse was sometimes stiled by the emperour in goldastus : so the men of this generation pretend to holinesse , when as the devil sends them strong delusions to believe a lye : and 't were happy for some of them , did they all but believe it , who are as like their fathers , stork , stubner , and muntzer , as one egg is like another . this nicholas stork , and mark stubner born in germany , did like simon magus , endeavour by divers artifices to gain upon the unwary multitude . this , by learning and a certain acumen in expounding of scriptures , the other ignorant of letters , by popular eloquence , enthusiasms , and fame of secret conference with god. both these , with their great pomp and cunning no man knows what became of . neverthelesse the third of them , viz. muntzer , failed not to make the highest improvement of the fruit of this new gospel , imprinted in the minds of the people by stubner and stork . the fanaticks took occasion of dividing themselves into parts , and of renting the church from luther's book of christian liberty , first set forth in . wherein they reading that a christian man was lord of all things , and subject to no man , these words were wrested to a wrong sense by men impatient of their own and others quiet : and thereupon first in private and obscure cottages , next in open and eminent places , the cruel government of kings , their pillaging of their subjects was objected in the presence of the people . liberty acquired to all under the kingdom of jesus christ , was boasted of : complaints were made not onely of the tyranny of the bishop of rome , but of smaller matters tolerated by the first reformers of the church : and by this means the two pillars of publick order were weakened , viz. the dignity of the magistracy , and the reverence and respect of the ministry , and the authority of both . hereupon thoughts were had , and endeavours used for the setting up of a new and more perfect church , governed by a new kinde of policy , and of initiating it's disciples by a new baptism . and least that the respect had to their former baptism should hinder it , they declaimed against infant-baptism as vain and unlawful , as being given to such as were not capable , pretending that this sacrament was not to be administred to any but men of full age , and such as were at their own disposal . and that this upstart church might take the deeper root , these new doctors pretended a practice of godlinesse in themselves , and endeavoured to inculcate the same into others . i sence the ordinary themes of their private and publick meetings were , that sin was to be had in detestation , the flesh to be kept under , and the spirit stirred up duties of charity to be practised , the crosse of our lord to be born , fastings were often to be held , mean garments and moderate diet to be used , the dresse of the whole body to be composed rather unto neglect then elegancy , and that few words were to be used . it is a wonder to see how far by this juggling the common enemy of mankinde transforming himself into an angel of light , promoted his own kingdom , and how obnoxious these new gospellers rendred even good men by this feigned scheme and form of godlinesse . these new doctors , viz. muntzer and his companions , little moved by the exhortations or invectives of luther , or the threatnings of the civil magistrate , tumult the more for them , complaining that luther and others 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 savoured of nought but carnal things , saying , that they had onely broken off some boughs of antichristianism , leaving the tree and root entire ; which , as it ought , they would have to be cut up . and when they found no shelter for their errours in the word of god , they fly to new arts of defending themselves and their errours , they brag of enthusiasms and secret inspirations , inculcating into the people , that man was to live by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of god , and that therefore we are not to search after wisdome in books onely , and writings , but that we should give diligence according to the prescript of the apostle , that all prophecy . hence every fishmonger almost brag'd of the spirit , feigned revelations , invented enthusiasms , after the example of stork and muntzer , opened the pulpits to coblers and cummin sellers , and whatsoever the spirit of errour dictated to any of them , they obtruded upon others for the word of god , though besides or against the written word . a wide gap being thus opened to enthusiasms , any opinions were obtruded upon the ignorant and itching-ear'd people , as namely that no oaths were obligatory under the gospel , they every where preached sedition , and the seditious became armed against their princes , insomuch that the most flourishing provinces were hereby destroyed , and died in bloud . muntzer he must be their gideon , who bore this inscription in his banners , namely , thomas muntzer and the sword of gideon . these things and many more may be read in spanhemius de origine progressu , sectis , nominibus , & dogmatibus anabaptistarum , and in the commentaries of sleiden . it does almost superare annalium fidem , for a man would scarce believe what outrages have been committed in westphalia , by john of leyden , matthew , and knipperdoling : whereof this lest was so hardened in his wickednesse , that he endured three pinches of a red hot pair of tongs , before he implored the mercy of god ; which amongst other things [ whereof some are formerly related ] are recorded by the said sleiden in the fifth and tenth book of his commentaries , from whence this story was of purpose translated into english , anno . as a warning piece to england , especially for london , against those things , which , by woful experience , we have found to have come to passe , and whether they would have proceeded [ had not god in mercy turned the stream ] might easily be foreseen . if this be not the spirit of antichrist ; [ that pretends to be so much for christ , and yet so much against him , as the very word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 implies ] i know not what is . if this be the very poison , in a cup of gold [ whereof these men speak ] what is ? if this be not to make men drunk with the wine of abomination [ which they talk of ] what is ? if they will have it to be understood without a figure of a material cup of gold , even his is as truly verified of the men of this generation as of any , inasmuch as this is called a cup of abomination , in reference to some abomination committed in , with , or upon some cups of gold , and particularly that of belshazzar's impious feast , dan. . when the golden vessels which were taken out of the temple of the house of god , which was at hierusalem , were brought , and the king and his princes , his wives and his concubines drank in them . and have not the men of this generation done as much in spoiling churches of their ornaments , of their chalices , of their treasures , and they , their wives and concubines have drunk in them to their own gods , viz. their covetousnesse , their ambition and carnal pleasures , deriding their consecration as superstitious , and consequently accounting that god a devil to whom they were set apart ? the onely pretence they have for this their sacriledge is , that musick , vestments , bishops , cer emonies and churches have not any footsttp in the new testament ; whereby they discover themselves to be the most rigid sort of the anabaptists : as do these men , so did the severians and cerdonians , as st. austin de haeresibus ad quod vult deum , testifies . i must therefore encounter them within lists of their own setting , i mean the new testament , or not at all . sect. . first then for musick : where do they find it forbidden in the new testament ? nay , are we not exhorted to sing in the new testament ? viz. james . . did not the disciples of christ sing an hymn or psalm after the receiving of the sacrament ? mat. . and mark . . does not st. paul exhort his ephesians to speak unto themselves in psalms , and hymns , and spiritual songs , singing and making melody in their hearts unto god ? ephes . . . and does not the same apostle advise his colossions to teach and admonish one another in psalms , and hymns ? &c. colos . . . and whether these psalms , and hymns and spiritual songs be different , as grotius notes , or the same things , as others contend , they cannot be sung without musick ; and this speaking , teaching , and admonition , which are the subjects of these psalms , and hymns and spiritual songs , are an evidence that we may , nay [ if the apostles exhortation be of any force with us ] we must sing out all things that tend to edification at times convenient . the whole book of the psalms is a confutation of the adversaries to this truth , in as much as it being the very pith and marrow of the whole bible , contains doctrine , admonition , blessing , cursing , prophecying history , prayer , holy enquiries , all wayes of edification and consolation : yet these were not only appointed to be sung , but were adapted to organs , virginals , viols , and other sorts of artificial instruments , both ( 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ) stringed and wind , psal . and psal . in titulis . but to improve their objection for them , where do we find organs and chromatick musick to be any more then types and shadows of things to come ? whereunto i answer , that it cannot be proved by any man that organs and chromatick musick are any more types and shadows of things to come under the gospel , then other vocal musick is ; or give , not grant , that they had been ceremonial , they may nevertheless now be used in another acceptation , viz. as helps of lifting up of our hearts unto god , the better fitting them for hearing and divine meditation : neither did god , sayes calvin upon the . psalm , without cause heretofore under the law , require the multiplicity of musick , that he might draw the minds of his people from vain and wicked delights [ whereunto men are too much addicted ] to a holy and advantageous gladness ; and yet all this was too little , which gave occasion to the prophet , amos . . to say , woe be unto those that sing to the sound of the viol , and invent instruments of musick like david . not that david was the first inventor of those instruments [ for it was jubal the son of lamech , gen. . ] but that they studied all incitements to luxury , defending their fault by the example of david ; as if david had used musical instruments as provocations to luxury , and not as incitements to piety . who then can deny , that it is lawful for us to use the same sorts of musick , since the use thereof is directed to the same ends , and those not typical but moral ? under the law there was a double use of killing of beasts , the one as a sacrifice , the other as a sustenance : the taking of it away as a sacrifice , does not abolish the use thereof as a sustenance . the like may be said of any musick [ giving , not granting it to have been ceremonial and typical ] that though it might be then typical of things to come , yet the use of it at present is tropical , h. e. for the rectifying of disorders , and for the raising up of our hearts to a holy and heavenly exultation , and drawing our minds from prophane and idle songs , in use at meretricious meetings . those that deny the use of musical instruments under the new testament , will have them nevertheless to be types of praises : by which nice distinction they are driven to confess ▪ that they are something that is not ceremonial . their deceit they would have lye under the ambiguity of the word type : for . it is taken for a material print or impression , made by nails or otherwise , as john . . and such types they cannot be . . for the sum of an epistle , or the like , as act. . . and such they cannot be . . for a shadow or adumbration of a thing or person to come ; and this by their own confession , or rather affirmation , they are not : for this were to make them ceremonies , which they will have to be contradistinguished from types . . for a form of doctrine , rom. . but organs , &c. and voices are not forms of doctrine . . for an image or statue , acts. . . and this they cannot be neither , these being the work of painters and engravers . . for examples to be feared , cor. . . but these they cannot be , there being no judgement in all the scripture inflicted upon any that used singing or musical instruments , no , nor threatned against them , unless such as abused them to luxury . . for a samplar to be followed , phil. . . and as it were a copy given to be taken out by others . and such types they are , ( being proposed to us to be imitated under the gospel ) and no other , as has been proved by us , and confessed by themselves . sect. . as for vestments , the same may be said of these as of musick that though under the law they were typical of things to come under the gospel , yet under the new testiment they are not so , but meer distinctions of persons serving , and of services to be performed ; which we learn not from the law of moses alone ▪ but from that of nature too . the sacrificers among the heathen had their infulaes , h. e. sacerdotates vittas . the druides performed no sacred services without the leaves of oak : and not only the germans , but the greeks , adorned their altars with green leaves of oak . in the rites performed to ceres , they were crowned with oak ; in those to apollo with bayes ; in those to hercules with poplar ; in those to bacchus with myrtle . the victims and vessels were likewise crowned : sched . de di● germ. c. in all which was a decency intended , agreeable to the work they were about . it is very obvious how full the new testiment is of declamations against the abominable practices of the heathen ▪ yet let these men tell me where in all the epistles of the apostles these , or the like ceremonies were reprehended ? i know some would have me say , as pliny does , namely , that the druides sacrificed in white garments , that they might thence infer our surplices to be a ceremony derived from heathens , and abused to superstition : and was not the oak abused by the druides to superstition , being had in so great veneration among them ? and yet our late reformers gave order ▪ [ which was universally observed accordingly ] for the acorn , the fruit of the oak , to be set upon the top of their maces and crowns , and that instead of the cross , which had never been abused by the heathen , who had it in detestation , as a figure most unlike that which is best pleasing to him they worshipped , h. e. the devil . which thing so done by them was nevertheless of happy presage to us , viz. that the tree which bore such fruit should [ like that , in the plains of mamre ] serve for the shelter of our earthly angel , king charles , from the heat and fury of rebellion , which was then in the very noon ; until the cross reassumed its place again upon the top of his crown . so unlucky are contentious spirits many times , that they confute themselves by going about to condemn others ? oh but these men accounting themselves the only saints and servants of the most high god , any thing they wear or do must be sanctified to them : for to the pure all things are pure , but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure . and if so , then they must prove , that our church consisteth of unbelievers ; that it teaches and practises the uncleanness and other abominations of the heathen , so often noted by the apostles ; yea our very worship of god to be unclean and abominable , before they can conclude our ceremonies to be unclean and unlawful . but whilest we maintain the worship of the true god , and give up our selves to be ordered by his laws , we are pure , and consequently to us all things are pure , tit. . . a thing which cannot be said of them , whilest they would have any error in doctrine or worship , yea blasphemy it self to passe unpunished , which is the whole drift of this their sions groans : wherefore desinant maledicere , malefacta ne noscant sua . let them look into themselves , and their own practises , and they will find little reason to think themselves in heaven , much less to pull up the ladder after them , as if none were worthy to follow . st. paul pleads not for this decency only , but for order two , cor. . which doubtless was used also among these sacrificers . and therefore , as well for the expediency of the thing in it self , as the avoiding of the imputation of rudeness and confusion , wherewith the grecians here were apt to load them : the apostle concludes the chapter with this canon , let all things be done decently , and in order ; since therefore they can prove nothing but decency , order , and usefulness in such ceremonies as we use , what they say against them must go for nothing , and prevail as little with us , as a rationale would with them . which should i produce whereby to give an account of particularities , it would not make me justly liable to the dicterium of beza [ in his epistle to the prince of conde , put before his translation of the new testament ] cast upon those , who as he saies , collabentibus adium fundamentis de instaurando fastigio laborarunt . sect. . as for bishops , there are some we read of in the scripture , who had the appellation to be called bishops , but were not distinguished into a superiour order above others . others were both called so , and distinguished into an order superiour unto others ; and these are the bishops here meant by us . such were timothy and titus , as we learn from the several epistles written unto them by st. paul. such were the seven angels of the seven churches of asia in the revelation , in the judgement of dr. reynolds in his conference with hart , in the end of the third , and the beginning of the fifth division : and in the judgement of the archbishop of armagh , of the original of bishops and metropolitans , both printed together . those who by these angels would have the churches to be meant , do manifestly contradict the scripture . for , saies christ there , the gandlesticks are the churches , and the stars are the seven angels of the churches . i wonder therefore , saies grotins , what spirit of contradiction carries men away , that they dare confound things which the spirit of god so manifestly distinguisheth . de imp. sum . not . circa sacra , c. . and i more wonder that these men should say that there is not one word for them in the new testament , or that they should be set up by us as antitypes of the high priests under the law. no , christ is onely that . neverthelesse in regard of the distinction , which was an ecclesiastical thing among the jewes ; i say that the bishops do resemble the high priests , and the inferiour clergy the other priests . for there were in this respect many high priests at once , of whom we read many to have been assembled together ▪ mark . . every one of which was summus sacerdos istius classis , the high , or chief priest of that rank . these ranks had their several courses : & zachary was of one of these courses , viz. of that of abia , luc. . . not all these , but one only was typical , shadowing forth jesus christ unto them . and even in this high priest there was something besides the representation , as is plain by st. paul , who yielded his obedience to the high priest as governour of the people , acts . . and that after the type was expired , which had been unlawfull , had there not been somewhat remaining in him besides the figure . eleazar in aaron's life-time was princeps principam ; or praelatus praelatorum , num. . . and yet not reputed a type of christ ; and chron. . . we read of three at once , one onely whereof was the high priest which was the type of christ , the rest were not so ; yet by reason of their dignity paramount to others , might resemble archbishops themselves . and the other forementioned high priests in regard of the place they held above the rest of their classe , are in a sort resembled by our bishops . and that this may not seem strange to any , 't is a matter obvious to our observation that scarcely any ordinance or order under the new testament , can be named , which is not derived from others under the old , by some kind of resemblance intended between them . imposition of hands by the apostles was taken up in imitation of that practised under the old testament for the designation of successors ; as moses used it towards josuah , num. . , . that the whole frame of church government answers to the like order and distinction of persons and offices in the old testament is evidenced by the learned bishop of winton in a scheme to that purpose thus drawn , viz. aaron should be resembled by christ . eleazar archbishops . princes of priests bishops . priests presbyters . princes of levites archdea●ons . levites deacons . nethinims clerks and sextons . and hereunto he is led by the opinion of the ancient fathers , who seem to be of the same mind , viz. that the same form should serve both : so is st. cyprian , so st. hierome , st. leo and rabanus de vita clericor . the government of the church of the old testament , saies the archbishop of armagh , was committed to priests and levites , unto whom the ministers of the new testament do now succeed in like sort as our lords day hath done unto their sabbath . so he , in his original of episcopacy : and if it were reasonable for christians to take the jewes for their pattern in drawing their scheme of church government ; much more is it for modern christians to follow the ancient , a thing which our church has done in her reformation , which has retained all things of ancient usage in the church of rome , lest men should be scandalized at us , whilest we seemed to set up a new religion , instead of reforming the old. the very lords prayer hath much of conformity , not only to the forms used by the jewes , as others have observed ; but also as it seems to me , to the very design of the sacrifices of the law , which are all reducible to three kinds . the first was the whole burnt-offering to god , as absolute lord of heaven & earth , and as one to whom belongeth honour from us , should he never bestow any special favour upon us ▪ the second was the peace-offering , whereby to obtain at his gracious hands all those blessings and the degrees thereof , whereof men stand in need , whether publick or private , as also to expresse a thankfulnesse for all blessings , and for all those gracious returns he makes to the prayers of his people from time to time , or at any time . the third was the sin-offering for the expiation of all or any transgressions of his holy and divine commandments , and for health of soul . in conformity whereunto our saviour hath in that perfect and absolute form taught us to offer , by him , a spiritual holocaust to the honour of his name ▪ who inhabits eternity , in these words , our father which art in heaven , hallowed be thy name . secondly a spiritual peace-offering for the advancement of his kingdom in us , and the adimpletion of his will by us , as also for a supply of all outward necessaries in these words , thy kingdom come , thy will be done in earth as it is in heaven , give us this day our dayly bread . thirdly , a spiritual sin-offering for the forgivenesse of sins past , and for prevention of sin for the time to come , in these words . and forgive us our trespasses , as we forgive them that trespasse against us ; and lead us not into temptation , but deliver us from evil . and these not without a doxology , as a spiritual libamen or meat-offering , [ without which no burnt-offering was to be made under the law ] in these words ; for thine is the kingdom , the power , and the glory , for ever and ever . amen . and so having not only proved the order and distinctions of ecclesiasticks under the new testament , but also the first liturgy [ so the lords prayer is proved to be by cassander in liturgicis ex dionysio , and stands undeniably true ] to be instituted in resemblance of the like under the old testament , i come now to prove the jurisdiction that they have one over another , and over the rest of the church : wherein two things are to be considered in relation to our bishops , viz. . their power . . the distribution of this power . as for the first . their power is so connatural , that the chief judge in areopagus was a priest , hence cohen in hebrew was a common name to magistrates and to priests , gen. . . potipherah was priest , h. e. prince of on. the druides among the galls were of the noblest stock of kindred : they were so in epirus and cappadocia , it was usual as well among the grecians as romans for kings to be priests , and as schedius de dis germ notes out of fenestella , the priest was never made a distinct person from the civil magistrate till the expulsion of kings out of rome : and that this power so challenged by the voice of nature in the heathen themselves , is warranted by the scriptures of the new testament , i shall have occasion to shew anon , in answer to their objections against it . mean while i shall prove the second thing considerable , viz. the distribution of their power . and this is distributed according to the distribution of the civil power , the bishop residing in the city or chief place , all the clergy of inferiour places within his diocess are subject to him as he is to the archbishop : which is answerable to what the apostles at first did practise in the very beginning of christianity , and was followed by after times , as is observed by dr. hammond out of acts . and . cc. and made good against the animadversions on the dissertations touching ignatius's epistles , c. . sect . . his words are these . according to the image of the civil government among the jews , and the like again in their temple [ forementioned ] the apostles appeared to have disposed of churches every where , and in all their plantations to have constituted a subordination and dependance of the churches in the inferiour cities , to those in the chief or metropoles . an example of this we have in the story of the acts , concerning syria and cilicia , and the several cities thereof , in relation to antioch the metropolis . for when the question , acts . . was referred and brought to jerusalem from the church peculiarly of antioch , cc. . . and . . and the decree of the council return'd to them by whom the question was proposed , h. e. to the church at antioch , ver . . yet in the epistle wherein the decree was contained , we find the brethren through syria and cilicia , i. e. all the christians of that province to be expressed and joyned with those of antioch , ver . . and after when that decretal epistle was delivered to the church of antioch , ver . . paul and silas went over syria and cilicia , ver . . and . and as they went , they delivered to every city the decrees of the council , c. . v. . which is an evidence that the churches of those cities related either immediately to antioch , or , as antioch it self did , to jerusalem , and were in subordination to it as to the principal metropolis of so wide a province , according to that of philo , that jerusalem was in his time , the metropolis , not of judea alone , but of many other regions , in respect of the colonies , which it sent out of the jews that dwelt in them , naming syria and cilicia and divers others , thus for the learned doctor . the same is proved out of rev. . . john to the seven churches in asia , where st. john directing his letters unto them thus indefinitely without any mention of their particular names , he cannot by common intendment be conceived to have understood any other thereby , but such as by some degree of eminency were distinguishable from all the rest of the churches that were in asia , and in some sort did comprehend all the rest under them : for taking asia here in the most strict sense , for the lydian , or [ as the imperial constitutions call it ] the proconsular asia : it is not to be imagined that after so long pains taken by the apostles and their disciples therein there should be found no more then seven churches , especially since st. luke , acts . , . testifies that all they which dwelt in asia , heard the word of the lord jesus , both jews and greeks , so mightily grew the word of the lord and prevailed . and in particular among the epistles of ignatius , there is one directed to the church in trallis , another to the church in magnesia : and both these were subject to the metropolitane of ephesus . see the archbishop of armagh , as above quoted . and for these reasons , as also for their eminence in learning and wisdom , have all christian kings of this realm ever consulted with them , in the establishment of laws . we read in lambert's 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and mr. selden's titles of honour , that the laws of ina king of the west-saxons , were made by the perswasion and appointment of his father cenredus , and of hedda and erkenwald ▪ bishops , with senatours , elders and wise men of the people , in a frequent assembly of the servants of god ; which was between the years . and . the laws of alured the first founder of this monarchy , were made by his authority , as those of ina had been by his ; but ex consulto sapientum by the advice of the wise , which must include the bishops . . because his laws were grounded on moses his laws . . because nor these , nor those of ina did reach to life , except in case of treason against king or master . . because he hereby allotted much of the kingdom to guthurn , on condition of guthurn's becoming christian . all which are things well beseeming tho judgement of bishops , and are ( especially the first ) arguments sufficient to convince some of errour that contend our laws to have had their original out of the twelve tables . this was anno . about . years since . the laws of ethelstan , anno . were made by the prudent counsel of vlshelme archbishop , and the rest of the bishops , &c. wherein an estimate was made of all orders of men that then were , or rather a declaration of the common law in that point . as first , the king was esteemed at . thrymsa's , i. e. so many times three shillings ; an archbishop at . thrymsa's ; a bishop or senatour at . thrymfa's ; general of an army at . one initiated in holy orders , or a thame i. e. a noble man at . whereby it appears that an archbishop was double to any subject of the kingdom besides ; and a bishop equal to the greatest lord in the land ; and every priest as good as the best noble man under the degree of a senatour ; so far are any of these orders from arrogating , that they have lost much of that ancient honour , which belonged unto them by the common law of this nation . king edmund called together a frequent assembly of ecclesiasticks and laicks ; where oda and woolstan archbishop were present , with very many other bishops , for the sanction of laws . so did king eldred anno . as ingulphus testifies . so edgar and canutus establisht laws by the advice of the wise . so did william the conquerour with the concurrence of his princes , whereof the archbishops must be a part : since which time no acts of parliament are made without the lords spiritual . and that these things were allowed to the priests under the old testament no man will deny , the proofs therein being so frequent & pregnant . but our adversaries here call for proofs out of the new , whereunto i have & shall answer hereafter in its due time & place , contenting my self at present with the exposition of that one text of mat. . . ye which have followed me , in the regeneration when the son of man shall sit upon the throne of his glory , ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones , judging the twelve tribes of israel . this was spoken to the twelve apostles which were clergy men , and the predecessors of all bishops ; where note that the comma should be put immediately after me ; and in the regeneration referred to the son of man sitting on the throne of his glory , which was immediately after the descent of the holy ghost , a time 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and by way of eminence call'd the regeneration , because then were the gifts of ministration and sanctification more abundantly poured forth then ever they had been before ; the immediate end whereof was regeneration or renovation : then did every apostle besides his general commission , take upon him his particular episcopacy ; where he sate and judged , that is , governed the church , signified here by the twelve tribes of israel , under which notion the jewish church had been comprehended . and if it were understood of their being assessors to christ in the last judgement , surely then i might use the argument of st. paul , which concludes a fortiori , cor. . . know ye not that we shall judge the angels ? how much more things that pertain to this life ? where , under the pronoun we , he includes himself and all the apostles ; in whose absence he would have them rather end all differences ( which at any time might happen ) by compromise , then appeal to heathenish tribunals , from whence they were like to reap nothing but scandal to religion , and injustice to themselves , by reason of the corruption of the courts , according to that of the epigrammatist ad sextum . et judex petit , & petit patronus ; solvas , censeo , sexte , creditori . the judge does ask a bribe , thy advocate a fee : pay then thy creditour , better pay one then three . and so having done with bishops , come we now to churches . sect. . it is very true , that where two or three are gathered together in the name of christ , there is he in the midst of them : which was a singular consolation to the disciples of christ , that though they were driven to corners and deserts , and were fain to wander in desolate places , being hated by all men for christs sake , yet how does this forbid publick meetings , and at publick places , when time and opportunity presents it self ? the people of god may pray in [ cryptis ] caves , in time of persecution , therefore they must do so in time of freedom , when all the world is become christians , is there any logick in this ? no , no more then would be in this kind of argument . for the present necessity it is not good for a man to touch a woman . therefore when the necessity is over no man may marry . this follows not , but the clear contrary rather . and to make further proof hereof by scripture of the new testament , it is obvious to our observation that the people of god had not only their synedria's and national conventions , but other houses of prayer erected , and called synagogues , who being converted to the faith by the preaching of the apostles , the synagogues were made particular churches : for gal. . . saint paul testifies of himself , that he persecuted the church of god. now where was this church of god ? it was in synagogues , act. . . i imprisoned , saies he , and beat in every synagogue them that believed on thee : from whence i observe two things , . that the example of christians here , does teach us that its lawfull to serve god in temples made with hands , though he be not , nor ever was confined to them . . that it is as lawfull that this be done , though in places abused to false doctrine and superstition , as these synagogues , yea their places of national convention were , and that by pharisees , sadduces , and other sects , yea generally by all the jews before their conversion to the faith . and what is testified here , of jewish synedria's and synagogues , is true of heathen temples , namely , that it is lawfull to dedicate them to gods worship , act. . when st. paul sound at athens , an altar dedicated to the unknown god , he went not about to preach down their altar , but to preach up jesus and the resurrection upon it , least he should seem to be a serter forth of strange gods , as indeed he did to some nevertheless . nay , a third thing may be hence observed , namely , that as these synagogues were subordinate to the synedria's or national assemblies ▪ it follows that divers parochials may be subordinate to the synedrium of the cathedral , and the cathedral to a provincial or national convention . and thus much for the lawfulness of churches . now for the convenience of them . they are convenient , . for their capacity ; the cathedrals being large enough to contain the bishop with the dean and chapter , the standing synede of the diocess , besides the confluence of the whole city and diocess upon all occasions . the parochial churches are lesser , yet of capacity enough to contain a parish . . they are convenient for their situation , . in respect of the diocess [ if cathedrals ] they being in some eminent place thereof , . in respect of the parish [ if parochials ] they being as near as may be to the middle thereof , . in respect of the whole world , in as much as they look towards the east , which the ancient christians turned to in their adoration , as is testified by tertullian in apologet. c. . and by dionysius the areop . in coelest . hierarchia , c. . quite contrary to the temple of hierusalem , whose holy of holies or upper end was westward . indeed the church built by cardinal richelieu , at richelieu , a town of his own building too , hath its choir westward , and its entrance in at the east end thereof , which was so appointed by him , i suppose , least otherwise it might spoil the fashion of his town , a respect being had unto the model according to which it was to be built , and not out of an opinion of the indifferency of situation ; for albeit he were contented to turn his face sometimes westward in his adoration when living ; yet being dead he looks eastward in the chappel of his own building in the colledge of sorbon where he lyes buried . what was done by the said church at richelieu , was intended by that in covent-garden , but it was not permitted to be consecrated till the said design was altered , which was done bonis avibus too ; for covent-garden continnes a flourishing part of london suburbs , whereas richelieu hath nothing in it of the aim of the said founder , [ which was to make it a university for the study and teaching of philosophy in the french tongue ] but is like a proud woman , that hangs all upon her back at once ; for so is this empty of students and riches , having nothing left to commend it besides the superbe name , set out with gay and uniform buildings , as if every house there were as a rejection of the cardinals magnifick palace that stands by and would in time grow emulous of their mother tree , out of whose root they sprang . but to return , our churches are convenient for situation in respect of their parts within themselves , having an upper end and a lower ; this for the font to initiate and give first entrance into the church by baptism ; that , for the holy table which is for a spiritual repast to [ adulte ] persons of years the middle for the gatechumeni to stand between , . in respect of the fabrick of the whole , they being like naves inversae , ships whose keel is towards heaven . they have also ales or wings in many places , which are nothing else but continuations of vestries , built in resemblance to cabins in ships , and were therefore called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , h. e. not as a pyxis to keep the host in , as the pontificians contend for , but because they were as cabins for the masters of the ships to lodge in , derived from 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , or 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 thalamus , and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to bear , as bishop morton learnedly observes against them . some cathedrals are built with a single cross , representing that whereon our saviour was crucified [ for since constantine's in hoc vinces , churches have not only been so built in some places , but the sails of ships have ever been furled up in manner of a crucifix ] some are built with a double crosse , the uppermost representing that whereon the title was written , viz. inri they had no way more suitable of enlarging such fabricks , where beauty or necessity required it . i might justifie the building of churches in such figures as are most proper from that place of ezekiel . . go through the midst of the city , through the midst of hierusalem , and set a mark upon the foreheads of them that sigh , &c. and vers . . it is said , slay utterly old and young , both maid and little children and women ; but come not neer any man upon whom is the mark , and begin at my sanctuary . this mark in the original is tau , and so translated in the interl . bibles , and the vulgar latine by those that were no boys ( as * some would make them ) or something less for skill in hebrew grammar . now this letter tau , the last in the hebrew alphabet was written in the old samaritan character , like a crosse , as is witnessed by st. hierome upon the place , and that it was so upon the ancient coines they do not deny ; and it is so both in the alphabet of coines , and in the alphabet of azarius exhibited by vilalpandus upon ezekiel : all that they can say is , that those coines are mala mex , and a kind of counterfeit things ; 't is true , that . counterfeits of jewish coines , and of romans together , &c. too have been made , which many do buy and furnish their closets withall ; all which may be called mala merx : but what is this to the genuine pieces , from whence these counterfeits were taken : i must therefore send them to find better arguments to prove their pretensions , then yet they have brought to light , mean while rest in this opinion , viz. that in case we build any consecrated temple , or make any holy sign , as that in baptism is , the fittest figure is that of the crosse : this letter tau is the first letter of torab , h. e. the law whereby god would save the observers of his laws from the common destruction , which is a figure of those that shall be freed from the condemnation of the world , being first marked by christ our high priest , signified thereby a man clothed in linnen with a writers inkhorn by his side , v. . 't is true , that in our translation it is only [ set a mark ] or as it is in the margin , mark a mark : but why may not this mark be a crosse rather then any other , having these significations in it ? neither can any other , i am sure , no better be given to it ; nor yet more natural : for , . it is a figure that is primo cognitum of all other , as consisting of the concourse of lines at right angles , which are the common measure of themselves and all other angles whatsoever ; and let the crosse be made never so irregularly , yet if the lines be streight , it will have four angles equal to four right ones ▪ secondly , contumous quantity being divisibilis in semper divisibiliora , this cannot be done but in partes equales , & these equal parts cannot be set out so well as by a crosse , whether it be in plana or in cubo , sc . in a plain superficies , or a cubical body , unto the first of which all superficies , unto the latter , all solids are to be reduced in measuration ; as for example , in oblong superficies between the unequal sides . i find a mean proportional , this is the side of a square equal to the superficies given again in a triangular , between the perpendicular , and the half base : i find a mean proportional , this is the side of a square equal to the triangle given : the same rule serves for a rhomboides : thirdly , 't is no marvel that tau should be originally a crosse , when so many letters in the hebrew alphabet [ i speak not of those that follow the caprice of scribes , or founders of lies ] have their genesis from the parts of a crosse , viz. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 other letters there be as 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which seems to be as so many chips cut off it by the glance of the tool that hewed them ; and of these letters all others seem to be compounded , as is obvious to our observation ; other reasons might be given for the natural apprehension of the crosse , but these shall suffice here to infer the probability of that mark to be the sign of the crosse , and the fitness of building of churches after the manner of a crosse ; which if they would have demolished because built after the manner of a crosse , they must pull down many towns in england , which seem of design to be built after the manner of a crosse , especially glocester , whose figure stands thus , a the ailes gate , b the north gate , c the south gate , d the west gate , e the colledge & st. maries parish church , f the castle , g the middle row . the east west and south streets make up a compleat crosse ; the middle row g the crucifix upon it , the colledge , &c. e our saviours mother and other saints lamenting his condition , or rather their own , the castle f the souldiers that brought to execution and derided him . and that these were the glory of this nation , has been in effect confessed in the pulpit by one of the eminentest independents in the nation , when he prayed god to preserve the universities , the only remaining glory , as he said , of our nation , the cathedrals being then taken away : but what figure soever the churches had been built in , they would have found matter of exception against them . had they been round as those of the huguenots are , then they had been circles to conjure by , a figure best pleasing to the devil , as being most contrary to a crosse : a crosse then would have pleased them , which now they abhor as a matter of high superstition , but as the case stands ▪ they seem to be pleased with churches of the same figure as their religion resembles . h. e. a meere parabola . i come now from the conveniency to the necessity of these churches in some regards ; for albeit before their consecration they were in the power of those that gave them , to give or not to give them to those uses ; yet since that they are thereby given to god , and such things god accepts for his own , it follows that quicunque alienaverit sacrilegus erit . he will rob not only a society of men that live by and in them , but god also , as ananias and saphira did in another thing , but in the like case . but i have hinted from whence these exceptions sprang at first , viz. from stork , stubner , and muntzer : and from the same beginning it is that their exceptions against learned men issues forth , when coblers and furriers are set up to preach in hog-houses , and nasty places . and those things before mentioned would never become a stumbling block to the gentiles , as they pretend , as is evident by their crying up of their goddess diana , the magnificence of whose temple allured the world to worship her ; and had they had temples dedicated to the true god of more magnificence then diana's was of , they would have cried as loud as they did of diana , that great is the god of heaven ; whereby it is evident that such things may be outward motives of bringing men to the church , and so of seeing and learning what is there taught and practised , which they would not have been allured to , by an assembly of men met together in a pigs-coat ; nay it seems by the very argument of these men themselves , that had the jews beheld as magnifick temples under christianity as they had in judaisme , they would have become christians . but i shall believe neither the one , nor the other touching the jews , till god takes away the vail drawn over their hearts . the wrath of god is not come on them for that , but for crucifying the lord of glory , and for imprecating his blood upon themselves and theirs . sect. . but , say they , the bare rejection of truth , and imbracing of errour is not all the evil that the nations generally are engaged in by the church of rome , but for to compleat and fill up the measure of their iniquities , like nebuchadnezzar , nothing less must be inflicted on the servants of the most high god , that cannot bow down to the golden image of their inventions , then the fiery furnace of persecution , many times unto death it self . whereunto i answer , first , that this is as clear as the sun shines to be a scandal upon the good laws of the land , as if they were like those of draco the athenian , of which it was said that they were written in bloud , in as much as they punished every offence alike , without suiting the penalty to the quality of the crime . indeed this would quickly leave no criminals or no men in the commonwealth , in case all offenders were subject to the same punishment how various soever their offences were , and that punishment were death . but i shall take the pains to shew that this very thing which they here impute to us , is applicable to themselves . thus then the harlot in the revelation is so called , because it 's a counterfeit of the woman , in the twelfth chapter thereof , that is the church which is there described to have the moon under her feet . she is not then the true woman , but a counterfeit , an image only . now an image may consist of different parts and matters as nebuchadnezzar did , dan. . and yet the same image still : so does this harlot consist of several men of several sects , of several principles , in several ages , and yet the same harlot , the same antichrist still , as long as the devil works generally alike in them all , whereof the pope makes one part , the anabaptist another , other sects [ if this be not comprehensive of all ] others , and all this is done by dreams , as nebuchadnezzar's image was . and because men will not fall down and worship their dreams for truths , notwithstanding they comprehend not heterodoxisms only , but horrid blasphemies against god and his son christ , and be destructive of the ordinances of god , and witnesses of the revelation , they are mad , they send forth excommunications , they preach and practice rebellion , they say they fight for god , when they fight against the king gods vicegerent , that they are the servants of the most high god , when it is plain that the devil carries them captive at his will , that they would have christ reign over them , when the devil reigns in them , that they defend our liberties when they carry us captive , that they maintain our proprieties when they plunder us , that it 's done in faith , when it 's without charity , that it is to vindicate the liberty of religion and freedom of the gospel , when they make their own passion and interest the measure of it . hereupon the beautiful feet of those that should be the messengers of peace , become swift to shed bloud , the hands that have been accustomed to handle the holy sacraments appear like bellona's hands embrued in gore , the cloven tongues of the spirit are turn'd into serpents tongues , trifidasque linguas . ( sen. in medea ) & dividing themselves into three parts , their mouths that should dictate the oracles of god , are like the mouth of a leviathan , job . . whose breath kindleth coals , and a flame goes out of it ; that hair that should be like that of the ancient of days , white as wool , to note the incorruption of truth , is speckled like snakes , ravel'd into philtres , and rowled into tresses like serpents . and could their seduced proselytes but see all this , they would want no rhetorick to undeceive them : but this they have added to the very 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of their imposture , so . that the devil appears in the mantle of samuel , and i know not by what gygs ring they walk invisible , or else god hath suffered the eyes of the people to be blinded that they cannot see , or by the same just judgement , hardened their hearts , that they cannot perceive . but if these men be in the right , then let the epistle of jude , and the of pet. c. . be for ever , as some of them would have them , not canonical ; for would they lay aside abstruse and obscure prophecies impoysoned with their presumptious glosses upon them , which are written rather to exercise their humility , then cherish their presumption , and seriously apply those evident truths to their own practices , they would find every verse , like prometheus his eagle , feeding upon their inward parts , animated by that lying spirit as by fire stollen from heaven . and since these authours mention france and other places , what civil commotions have been caused there , in order to worship . i say that they arose from men of their generation . for i must remember them out of mr. camden's eliz. that it is about seventy years since that kingdom of france laboured of such a monster as this , which as an image consisted of several parties as of several materials , one affecting aristocracy , another olygarchy , another democracy , another anarchy , all disliking the present form monarchy . mean while the preachers easily snatching the people about by this common motion , became the trumpeters of sedition , till after the assasinate of their king , they began to disagree as much about their new governours , as before they had done about their government . these men in munster or amsterdam might have passed for anabaptists , and had they kept company with knipperdoling , john of leyden , muntzer , stork , or any of that rabble , they had proved so indeed , and what they would have been here , we all know , the devil working alike in them all , though of different religions . and about this time it was , that the calamities which have befallen this kingdom were a brewing [ as you may read in the english scottizing , and scots genevating for discipline , set forth by archbishop bancroft ] which these authours here falsly ascribe to the sending the scottish liturgy into scotland . suppose that , that had been the cause , i deny it to have been a just one ; for let them tell me what warrant they have out of scripture , or orthodox writer , of rebelling against their sovereign under pretence of religion , be it true or false . if so , where is their subject of passive obedience , they so much boast of ? and if nothing can be a good ground of rebelling against the king , much less can it justify that which had no end but in the death of the king , and slavery of the people , whose liberty was pretended to be vindicated . and thus far they have but declaimed , which we having answered , as you have heard , let us examine their proofs , or logical part which all depends upon this one syllogism . sect. . if any magistrate under heaven , in the daies of the gospel hath power to impose any thing in the worship and service of god , it is given him as he is a magistrate only , or as a christian so considered , but that no such power is given by god to any magistrate appears . for answer to the first part hereof , i say that he hath power as he is a magistrate only : and this power is given him of god , in as much as magistracy is an ordinance of god. all powers of the world whatsoever are from him , even those of tyrants themselves , though permissively only : lawful powers are from him , as ordained by him . and as these are ordained by god , so hath he given them power in the worship and service of god. for . the very heathens have given the first place to religion , as knowing by natures instinct that without religion no policy of a commonwealth can be happily instituted or administred . it is an axiom drawn out of the fourth book of plate de rep . that religio est fundamentum reipublicae , & potissima pars publici magistratus , & vere arx atque propugnaculum constituendae reipublicae . without which all the parts of a commonwealth , like the strings of an instrument , will be out of tune , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and therefore another axiom follows thereupon , that non potest immutari status religionis sine maximarum legum immutatione , & propterea non est temere importanda in rempublicam nova religionis forma : because it does dismember and disjoynt the commonwealth . st. paul disputing daily at athens touching religion , was brought unto areopagus to be judged by that court , act. . . as upon whom the business of religion was principally incumbent . ezra received the power and jurisdiction from artaxerxes speedily to execute judgement upon all contumacious persons in the business of religion , ez. . . whether unto death or banishment , or confiscation of goods , or imprisonment , ez. . , . so did cyrus and dari●s give permission to the jews to reedify the temple ; and to to sacrifice therein , adding money to defray the charges ; ch. . , and . . nebuchadnezzar , dan. . . commanded him to be hewed in pieces that should blaspheme the god of the hebrews . secondly , the lawyers refer religion to those things which belong to the law of nation s , in as much as by the guidance of nature we know that there is a god , which is to be reverenced , & who knows not that to a magistrate belongs , not only the administration of positive laws , but of those also that belong to the laws of nature . thirdly , if it be the duty of a father of a family to instruct his children in the true religion , and to reduce them from their deviations from it : how much more doth it appertain to the magistrate , who is the father of his countrey , to take care of the religion of his subjects . fourthly , this is requir'd of a magistrate in scripture , ps . . kisse the son , and serve the lord in fear , which consisteth not only in the adoration of the son of god [ for that is common with him to every true christian ] but also in the outward administration of his kingdom . this therefore was the injunction laid upon the kings of israel to be observed when god should bring them into the land he promised them , viz. when they sit upon the throne that they write them a copy of the law in a book out of that which is before the priests and levites , deu. . . and at the inauguration of joash the book of the law of god was given into his hands , ch . . and fifthly , the examples of holy princes do teach us that magistrates have the care of religion committed to them , such were moses , joshuah , david , solomon , asa , jeboshaphat , josiah , ezekiah , &c. and albeit these men will ( what never any , but persons sprung from anabaptists did ) reject all examples and testimonies out of the old testament [ unless it be to serve their own turn , [ as i have formerly shewed them to have done in the date of their epistle , the eighth day of the third moneth ] yet this , i suppose , they will hardly deny , namely , that a father under the gospel hath and ought to have a care of his children , in matters of religion , their own practice witnesses as much , in that they instruct their children in their own principles , and keep them from baptism and steeple-houses [ as they call the churches ] which they hold to be unlawfull , &c. now if these things are given to a father of a family whose power cannot reach as far as a kings , much more to a king or other magistrate , whose jurisdiction is of a larger extent , and whereof a family is but an integral part . and the same comparison holds between a master and a magistrate , which is not only a father of his countrey , but a master too : for in rome , he who was dictatour and bare the power supream , was called the master of the people : whence it is that cicero calls caesar master , and livie witnesseth that the dictatour was so added to the consuls , that he might be their moderatour and master . if therefore it be lawfull for a master of a family , school , or society , to be defensive and offensive in cause of religion under the gospel , towards their children , scholars , and servants , how much more is it given to a magistrate towards his subjects , who bears the same relation to a master of a family , school , or society , as the whole does to a part . but , say they , if magistrates as such have such an authority , then all magistrates in all nations , have the same power , then if we lived in turkey , we must receive the alcoran and be worshippers of mahomet ; if in spatu , be papists , as in hen. . his daies , sometimes protestants , as in edw. . his daies , &c. ans . this is the very argument of the papists in calvino turcismo , l. . c. . and improved by champnaeus . but it s answered by mason de ministerio anglicano , l. . c. . and hereunto i further say , that as all magistrates in all nations have power in matters of religion , so they have the same power , but not the same skill to govern , nor the same rule to go by in governing ; as for instance ones rule is his will , another's is the law : and of those that are limitted by laws , some rule by some laws ; others , by other laws different from them . so . in matters of religion , magistrates do rule according to the book delivered unto them : some have only the book of nature put into their hands , and these have a faculty thereby given them to rule and order religion according to that , such hath the turk , and all unconverted magistrates . some have the book of the old testament delivered into their hands ; and those were sometimes to rule according to that . so deut. . . it is said , that when the king sitteth upon the throne of his kingdom , be shall write him a copy of the law in a book , out of that which is before the priests and levites , and it shall be with him , and he shall read therein all the daies of his life . and in chron. . . it is said that they brought out the kings son , and put upon him the crown , and gave him the testimony , and made him king , &c. some have the book of the new testament put into their hands ; and these are to order matters of religion according to this : such are all christian kings , princes , and governours . now whereas they would infer that therefore we must receive the alcoran , be papists and i know not what , according to the sole will of our governours whatever perswasion they be of ; this is not so : for albeit whatsoever they enjoyn according or not contrariant to these books be firm and inviolable , yet whatsoever they determine without or against these books is void : so that the turk hath not a stable and inviolable power given him to impose the alcoran and to enjoyn worship to mahomet , in as much as no such rule is given by the book of nature delivered unto him : nature dictates no such thing , and therefore such a thing must be given by god himself , who is above nature , or else it must be acknowledged to be , as it is indeed , a meer imposture . the kings of israel had power given them to rule by the book of the law in matters of religion : but they that did set up idolatry , contrary to the contents of that book , did abuse their power , and in that regard their injunctions were of no force . the king of spain hath the book of the new testament put into his hands , and consequently the moral part of the old testament but he permitting idolatry , and giving up his power into the popes hands , whose vassal he becomes , [ as all popish princes do ] he abuses this power . if any other prince does the like , he is not to be followed therein : he is neverthelesse passively to be obeyed ; that is , a christian-subject is not to resist him , but he is to submit to such punishment as he shall inflict upon him , in as much as an errour in the understanding , upon which proceeds the abuse of his power , which is accidental , does not make void his power , which is essential to him , and whereunto every soul is subject , in foro externo : the spirit of god sayes in the same breath , fear god , honour the king. he who doth any thing by command from the king contrary to the command of god , does not fear god ; and he that rebelleth or resisteth [ for it is all one ] the king , upon any pretence whatsoever , doth not honour the king , but despise him , yea and resist the ordinance of god , and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation , rom. . the same may be said of the turks forbidding a man to believe in christ , or any thing of absolute necessity to salvation , wherein he is not to be obeyed , in as much as it is not a thing contrary to the law of nature , but of the institution of the god of nature , that we believe in god , and in him whom he hath sent , jesus christ his son. . secondly , they say , that since our saviour tells us , that all power is given him in heaven and in earth , if the magistrates have any such power , it is committed to them from the lord jesus christ , and written in the new testament . i answer , that no power could be given to christ , which he had not before , being god eternal , and therefore we must say , that all power was in christ naturally and essentially . but there 's a power given him [ which he had not but by gift ] dispensatorily , as he is the mediatour , which is nothing else but a rule which he observes in the salvation of men , as a thing added to his essential power . now infidel kings receive their power from christs natural and essential power only , being not bound to believe in christ , nor to observe the rules he gives till revealed unto them , but to observe the law of nature given in paradise according to which they and their subjects ( infidels ) shall be judged . wherefore i hope they will not send us to find this in the new testament . though they should , i have a text for them there too , rom. . , , . because that which may be known of god , is manifest in them , for god hath shewed it unto them . kings that believe , receive their power , not from christs natural and essential power onely , but from his dispensatorie power , as he is mediatour and great lawgiver to his church : by which power he does not take away the former , but establish it rather . let them shew me where he takes it away ? if they do , they must shew me a contradiction to the words of the apostle , who saies , rom. . let every soul be subject to the higher powers . oh but these were heathen magistrates , say they . whereunto i answer , that if every soul must be subject to heathen magistrates , much more then , to those that believe in christ , who came not to destroy , but to rectify and perfect the law of nature . . the third thing that they say , will fall to the ground upon what has been already spoken , viz. that the apostles themselves refused to be obedient to their rulers , act. . , . when they were commanded to forbear that which they judged to be a part of the worship of god. ans . that their rulers enjoyned them not to preach christ , and therein they did well to disobey , for otherwise they had not feared god , in as much as , though their rulers were above them , god was above them both . yet had they not obeyed passively as contented to suffer reproach for the name of christ , they had erred against the fifth commandment of honour thy father and mother , which is equivalent to that in the new testament , so . honour the king , which is clean contrary to rebelling or resisting him . these things are so plain , that i wonder any should stumble at them , but that they are so blinded with passion and self interest , that they cannot apprehend them . . they say in the fourth place , that all emperours before constantine , were heathens , and that therefore those texts of scripture that call for obedience to magistrates , cannot intend obedience in matters of faith . ans . do they think that the new testament , whereof these texts of scripture are a part , belonged only to those that then lived , and not to us also ? if not , then this text of scripture , viz. ye believe in god , believe in me also , belonged not unto us , but to them only that lived then . as we have oportunity let us do good unto all men , especially to them that are of the houshold of faith , gal. . . with all the rest of the new testament belonged not to us , but to them only . they would have the old testament cashier'd : and if they reject the new , what canon shall be left to walk by ? no faith , no hope , no charity would be then necessary ; this would be a liberty indeed , here would be room enough for an enthusiast to wander in . but stay a little , those texts of scripture belonged not to them alone , who lived in those daies , but to us also [ as does all the rest of the new testament , who live under christian magistrates , and therefore they must intend obedience in matters of faith , and that because they are words indefinitely spoken , which we are not to restrain to our own sense , but rather to enlarge them into an universal proposition : let every soul be subject to the higher power , wherein ? in all things : for 't is in materia necessaria , and consequently equivalent to an universal . . i answer , that albeit all magistrates were now heathens , yet it would comprehensively intend obedience to them in matters of faith [ either active or passive ] as to competent judges of them . felix was a heathen , act. . yet he being the deputy of the roman emperour , st. paul is accused before him by tertullus : whereupon , saies st. paul , i am judged concerning the resurrection from the dead , h. e. concerning a principal article of faith . the same controversie came shortly after before festus , wherein st. paul himself acknowledged his right of judging : here , sayes he , i ought to be judged . again , fearing the injustice of the judge , he appealed unto caesar , who of right was the supreme judge , and a heathen too . other examples might be alledged out of primitive authors , but in vain , against men who will deny the sun shines , unless proved by expresse words of the new testament . but this being the very argument of champnaeus the sorbonist , page . i leave it further to be answered , if need be , by francis mason de minist . angl. l. . c. . . fifthly , they say , that if magistrates as such have power from god , in the dayes of the gospel , to command in spiritual matters , and to punish them that obey not , then must christians surely be actually obedient , not only for wrath , but for conscience sake . answ . i deny this argument , for in commanding any thing contrary to the word and will of god , they abuse their power , either through ignorance or wilfulnesse , and in that case meerly passive obedience is to be yielded ; for all things of practice are either absolutely unlawful , and in such the magistrate is not to be obeyed , and that for conscience sake ; because god , or nature , which is the voice of god , is to be obeyed before men ; or else absolutely necessary , and in such no man can make a question , whether magistrates be to be obeyed or not ; or indifferent , which stand in equilibrio between good and evil ; the grains of the magistrates authority gives weight to that side it is put into , which must therefore incline us to obedience for conscience sake ; not that humane laws can be properly said to bind the conscience by the sole authority of the law-givers , but they do it partly by the equity of the laws , every man being obliged to promote that which conduceth to a publick good ; and especially by divine authority , which commandeth every soul to be subject to the higher powers , for his conscience sake , and not prudentially only . the question , sayes the now lord primate of ireland bramhall against militiere , is soon decided . just laws of lawful superiours , either civil or ecclesiastical , have authority to bind the conscience in themselves , not for themselves . but it is answered , say they , that all magistrates , suppose whatever they impose . but the questian is , who is to determine , for if the magistrate , or any other man or men have power from god to judge and determine , what is lawful for men to obey , then no room is left to them to dispute any of his commands , and so the crosse of christ ceases , &c. answ . the twentieth article of our church tells us , who is to determine how , and what ? the church hath power to decree rites or ceremonies , and authority in controversies of faith , and yet it is not lawful for the church to ordain any thing that is contrary to gods word , neither may it so expound one place of scripture that it be repugnant to another : wherefore although the church be a witness and keeper of holy writ , yet as it ought not to decree any thing against the same , so besides the same ought it not to enforce any thing to be believed for necessity of salvation . all things contained in this article are either indifferent , such are rites or ceremonies , or necessary , such are matters of faith : in the first it hath the power of ordaining , and yet it is not lawful to ordain any thing contrary to gods word . in the second , it has the power of explanation , and therefore it is a witnesse and keeper of holy writ ; yet it ought not so to expound one place of scripture that it be repugnant to another , nor enforce any thing besides the same to be believed as necessary to salvation . now in case they should decree any ceremonies contrary to the word of god , or impose any thing to be believed besides the same , and so stir up the magistrate to punish the contempt hereof , and the contemners be punished accordingly ; how is the cross of christ made void in this case ? truly not at all , no more then peter and john did make void the crosse of christ , in refusing to obey the rulers of the jews , forbidding them to speak any more in the name of jesus , acts . on the other side , what if no rites or ceremonies were decreed against the word of god , and nothing imposed upon them as necessary to salvation , but liberty were granted them to embrace nothing but what they could easily so allow , what sword of the magistrate would be drawn against them ? and would not the cross of christ cease in their own sense ? so then , there were no better way of answering their argument drawn from the ceasing of the crosse of christ , then by granting them their desire . in the last place , they urge the example of gallio the roman deputy of achaia , acts . , , , , . which worthy example , say they , if magistrates would be perswaded to follow , by judging and punishing only civil injuries and wrongs , and leaving spiritual differences to be decided , and judged , and punished by jesus christ according to the gospel , they would then find themselves quickly free from many inconveniencies , &c. answ . these men either speak merrily , or else they wanted examples to prove their assertion , who had none to cite , but that of the most corrupt magistrate that ever sate at the helm of government . and behold the worthy example which he gives , he judged and punished civil injuries , say they : but no such matter ; for the insurrection against paul was a civil injury ; they cryed for justice , or rather for injustice , in a tumultuous way against an innocent person ; and this gallio never relieved , or as much as heard him speak ; which had he done , that innocent person , st. paul , would haply have proved there as formerly he had done at athens , that that god whom they ignorantly worshipt did he declare unto them . and it seems that he gave the greeks so good satisfaction in the matter , that they took sosthenes the ruler of the synagogue , and probably the ring-leader of that riot , and beat him before his face , as he sate in judgement , he not as much as rebuked them for it . as for the differences concerning worship , it is said of them , as well as of the civil ones , that gallio cared for none of those things ; who probably might have the same design upon some of them in this kind of deportmentof his , that , faelix had , acts . . who hoped for a bribe to be given him by paul : for this controversie in all likelihood did not end here , though the event be omitted as impertinent to this sacred story . mean while who can justifie this to be a worthy example , which was so unworthily done , viz. that he would not heed things that concern the worship of god , which all the company judged of right to have appertained unto him ? neither did he himself deny that he had , but that he would have any thing to do with such matters : for why , had not he as much authority as areopagus , acts . which was the highest court in athens , and the exactest in the world in their proceedings , as we learn from aristotle , rhet. i. who took upon them to be judges of such matters , which the philosophers themselves knew right well to appertain unto them , when they brought st. paul to be tryed before them for his doctrine : neither did the apostle demurre to their bill of information , as if it had not been within their instructions for their jurisdiction . sect. . and now having answered all their objections against a magistrates power of imposing any thing in worship and service of god , as he is a magistrate only : i come to answer their second part of the proposition ; and their reasons to confirm it ; viz. that no magistrate hath any such power , as he is a christian . for answer whereunto , the contrary is evident . for as every member of the church consisteth of an outward , as well as of an inward man , so the government of the church regardeth the outward , as well as the inward man , which consisteth in defending it , and delivering it from its enemies , as also in ordering and adorning it . as then , sayes grotius , the universal providence of god , which watcheth over all things though it be of it self sufficient to dispose and execute every thing : yet for the demonstration of its manifold wisdome , it useth ( potestatibus vicariis ) the substitution of worldly powers , for the conservation of the common society of men , whence it is that they are called gods. so also the special providence of god watching over his church adopteth the same powers to himself as his vicars and patrons of the true faith kissing christ , on whom also he confers his name , that is to say annointed . these are kings & princes that govern together with christ , not in equal share of power , but by delegation and vicarship only . wherefore since things subordinate do not crosse one the other , neither does it misbecome the majesty of christ to govern the principalls of his kingdome immediately by himself , the other partly by himself and partly by others , [ as it is also most certain that he uses the help of angels ] it follows that an earthly kingdome even as if it respects holy things nothing hinders the heavenly and divine empire of christ . adversaries to this doctrine on the one side are papists and presbyterians , both acknowledging a temporal power in order to spirituals , but one of them putting this power into the hands of the pope , the other into the hands of the presbytery , those constituting imperium supra imperium , these imperium in imperio at least . and they prove it by this argument ; viz. the magistrate is not of the essence of the church , therefore he 's not necessary to the government thereof . answer , so neither is the magistrate of the essence of a physician , or a merchant , or of a mason ; yet he equally governs them all . they both object , that kings are enjoyned to adore the church . answer , that is to say , to adore christ in the church , sayes hugo grotius , there is a trope in that part of the prophecy , neither can the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , sayes he , be rigidly urged , unlesse we will transferre that majesty to the church , which is due to christ who is prince of the earth , apoc. . . it cannot be denied , but that as the church-men have a distinct charge from and above others ; yea even kings themselves , so there is a proportionable honour , and a submission due to them , heb. . . obey them that have the rule over you , and submit your selves , for they watch for your souls , as they that must give account , &c. but i answer , that that is enjoined to prince and people , viz. that they submit themselves to their pastors , ( quatenus ) as they speak unto them the word of god , as the holy ghost himself expounds it , v. . of the same chapter . the king as he is a sheep of the fold of christ , is fed by the bishop or pastor . the bishop as a sheep and a subject is fed by the king. the bishop as he teaches the king , and administers holy things unto him , is above the king ; that is , in the actual execution of his functions . but the king , as he establishes these things by wholesome laws and commands , the execution of these functions , is above the bishop : as the sun is above the moon , so the moon may be above the sun in a several respect . in respect of the distance from the center of the world , the sun is ever above the moon ; but in respect of elevation above the horizon , the moon may be & is many times above the sun : . adversaries to the foresaid truth on the other side are those with whom we have here to doe , who will not have the church in any wise to be subject to any temporal power , in as much as they receive no such from christ . and to prove this , they urge here in the first place , that the lord jesus christ would never by any outward force compell men to receive him or his doctrine ; for when his disciples , supposing he might use violence , [ as under the law ] would have had him command fire to come down from heaven [ as elias did ] to consume them that would not receive him , christ turned and rebuked them , saying , ye know not what spirit ye are of , the son of man is not come to destroy mens lives , &c. luc. . , , . ans . the fact of elias was extraordinary , and not justifiable by the law , as they pretend ; and so had this been in our saviour , had he done it at their request . but what had this been to the reciving of , or rejecting his doctrine ? the question was touching the reception of his person , and the reason why those samaritans did not that act of civility to him as to entertain him , was because either they supposed he would not have come upon their invitation , or else they would not invite him by reason of the animosity that was between the jews and samaritans , as supposing that a friend of hierusalem or an inhabitant thereof neither deserved , nor would accept of entertainment from them . and all this is clear by that conference of the woman of samaria with our saviour , john . . how is it , saies she , that thou being a jew askest drink of me that am a woman of samaria ? for the jews have no dealings with the samaritans . they further urge , john . , . if any man hear my words , and believe not , i judge him not , for i came not to judge the world , &c. ans . there are two comings of christ , one secretly and in humility , that he might be judged and delivered up ; the other manifestly and majestickly that he might judge and remunerate . now if christ had come at first manifestly , he had never been crucified , for had they known it they would not have crucified the lord of glory , and had he come majestickly with a great retinue of men or angels , which he might have commanded , the whole roman empire would have trembled at his presence , so far would pilate the roman procuratour have been from calling him before his tribunal . nevertheless he did sometimes use outward force in things appertaining to the worship of god , giving us thereby not only an adumbration of his spiritual kingdome ; but also a copy for magistrates his vicegerents to write after : for finding in the temple those that sold oxen , sheep , and doves ( john . . ) and the changers of money sitting , he made a scourge of small cords , and drove them all out of the temple , and the sheep and the oxen , and poured out the changers money . the like did he at another time , mat. . , . for the distance of time and other circumstances do prove that these were different acts of our saviour as all expolitours agree in this chapter from the second to the thirteenth verse , we read how he sent two of his disciples to press an ass and a colt to carry him as it were to his coronation , the which was obeyed , as all good subjects will their sovereign : upon this ass they put foot-clothes , and mounted him , the multitudes that met him spread their garments in the way , and strewed it with branches of trees , crying on either side , hosanna to the son of david , which is as much as to say , god save the king. the first thing he did after his coming to his royal city was the reformation of things amiss in the worship of god , went into the temple , cast out them that bought and sold there : and there he cured the kings evil too , h. e. such diseases as could not be cured but by this king of the jews , v. . to teach all kings which claim under him to employ their first and chiefest endeavours , after their enthronization towards matters appertaining to the worship of god , and in works of charity towards such as are in extream necessity . but should our saviour have used such authority as often as occasion presented it self , he would have been dreaded by all men , and crucified by none , and so prophecies would not have been fulfilled . nevertheless he ceaseth not to govern the church , and in that sense to judge the world by the magistrates and ministers of the word : for as grotius saies , some actions of christ in the administration of his kingdom are [ as he calls them ] terminal , viz. such as concern the beginning and ending of his administration . such as concern the beginning of his admiuistration are the giving of laws to his church , under hope of eternal reward , or under pain of everlasting damnation . that which concerns the end is a definitive jurisdiction at the last day , whereof as he hath done the one , so will he do the other himself alone , wherein he hath neither companion nor vicegerent . other actions of christ are middle actions which come between these two terms , which partly concern the inward , partly the outward man. he acteth in the inward man by his spirit several waies , viz. by enlightning , by converting , by strengthening against temptations , by remitting or retaining sins : yet he useth herein the outward ministry of men , viz. of pastours , private men , kings , every one in his several capacity , not as his vicars or vicegerents , these being not able to produce actions congenial to those of christ ; but as his ministers only , being apt to the production of such actions as may subserve to the principal cause in matters aforesaid . the actions of christ that concern the outward man , consist in defending and delivering the church , and in ordering and adorning the fame , as i said before , and herein he uses the vicarship of his magistrates ▪ as being apt to produce actions , in this respect congenial to his own , whom he therefore calls his christs , h. e. his anointed ones . and now whereas they say , that the apostles were far from propagating the gospel by outward force . it is evident that the ordinary power of the apostles and of the magistrates are different things : and who talks of propagating the gospel by outward force in either ? our king is the desender of the faith by the sword that he holds : he goes not about to propagate it [ if by propagation you mean plantation too ] by force and violence . his majesty is furnished with an aphorism of his learned and judicious grandfather against that , viz. that it is never good to use too much severity or bloudshed in matters of religion : god never loves to plant his church by violence and bloud . king james aphorism . this his majesty leaves to the spanish cruelties in the indies , and to their inquisition at home . and as for the apostles , 't is true they did not propagate the gospel by force , [ though mischief enough befell those at whom they shook off the dust of their feet ] but yet they did govern established churches by force , which was a delivery over unto satan , cor. . . for the punishment of the flesh . and no other manner of punishment could be inflicted on offenders by them , while there was no temporal magistrate to impower them , or at most , none but such as was like their beloved gallio , who cared for none of those things : yet this , take him devil , a man would think were more terrible then take him jaylor , which they have printed in capital letters . hence saies st. paul , gal. . . i would that those were cut off that trouble you , which had it been unlawfull to do , had been unlawfull in him to wish . as to the dividing of the inheritance which our saviour refused [ which they have put in the margin as a buttress to hold up the arch and concameration of their argument ] i say , that our saviour would not always be vacant to satisfy the avarice of a fellow , ( who followed him for such ends ) to the neglect of a business which he had but a short time to dispatch in the world ▪ though such was his zeal of gods house , that he could not forbear the ridding of the temple of sacrilegious persons . and thus their first argument falls to the ground with the improvement thereof , to make the ruine of it the greater . sect. : for the further improvement of their foregoing argument , they alledge that place of the apostle , cor. . . not for that we have dominion over your faith , but are helpers of your joy : for by faith ye stand . ans . for exposition whereof we say , that one thing amongst others , that gave the apostle occasion of writing this epistle , was the command given by him of delivering the incestuous person to satan for the punishment of the flesh . the apostle having founded a church at corinth , false doctours building on this foundation perswaded them [ as these authours would perswade others in the like cases ] that st. paul plaied the part of a proud domineering fellow ▪ and of one who took more upon him then belonged unto him . hereupon the apostle excuses himself and saies , that though necessity urged to a just severity against the sin , yet he assumed to himself no dominion over their faith : no , for that were to pull up that foundation on which they stood , for by saith ye stand , and it were to destroy that which he had first layed . but then some may say , that though the apostle had power in matters belonging to religious practice , yet it seems hereby that he had none in matters of faith . whereunto i answer , that it 's one thing to have power in matters of faith , and another to have power over matters of faith . to have power over matters of faith is the prerogative of christ alone , he being the only law-giver to his church : to give laws to the church is act to terminalis , a terminal action of christ , and herein he admits of no vicarship or vicegerency , as i have already said , which is such as the popes pretend to in making new articles of faith : and that this is the meaning of this place , is the opinion of some that are no enemies to our present adversaries . nevertheless to have power in matters of faith appertains to the church , as i have said before , out of the twentieth article of our church . and that the apostle had such a power is evident in the case of hymenaus and philetus , whom st. paul delivered unto satan for making shipwrack concerning faith , tim. . . the same apostle also sayes , whosoever loves not the lord jesus , let him be anathema maranatha , corinth . . . which some call an excommunication unto death , others interpret it , the lord cometh : they are both the same in effect , at least they imply a greater degree of punishment then the former ; the delivery unto satan being only for the punishment of the flesh , that the spirit may be saved in the day of the lord jesus . but the lord coming once in vengeance , it is a fearful thing to fall into his hands , as sayes the apostle , heb. . . the second place they urge is , matth. . . sc . the princes of the gentiles exercise dominon over them ▪ but it shall not be so among you . answ . that if it be so , that in the perpetual office of pastors the use of the keyes has a kind of jurisdiction , as i have proved as well by positive places of scripture , as by the real effects that accompany it in the apostles , we must search out some other meaning by this place , then the denyal thereof to them . and then it must be either this , viz. you look after easie seats , like those of the kings of the gentiles , who rule in ease and pleasure ; but it shall not be so among you : so doctor hammond . or else it must be this , viz. that the apostles were not to strive for dominion one over another , but to content themselves with what they had over the churches . or lastly , it must be that which i find in the treatise of the power of the pope touching the book of saternelly the jesuite , written anno . the princes of the gentiles exercise dominion over them : but it shall not be so among you ; that is , you shall not exercise dominion over the nations by a temporal sword , whereunto you your selves are subject , as is learnt from the example of paul , who declined not the jurisdiction of caesar , acts . but which exposition soever of these three obtains , how does this prove what these men have in design , viz. that no christian magistrate is to be a defender of the faith ? if they will grant him to be a magistrate , they must allow him a superiority , and vest him in a power , else they will but mock him : and this power extends to matters appertaining to the worship of god , as has been likewise proved . the hird place , pet. . , . feed the flock of god — neither as being lords over gods heritage , but being ensamples to the flock . answ . by what has been said it is evident , that they had a power over the flock of christ , and that not only a power accompanying the word preached , but a power of oversight ; for so much is clear out of the very place they here quote , viz. v. . feed the flock of god which is among you , taking the oversight thereof : and acts . . they are called overseers ( the very name bishop is an overseer . ) this power was exercised then not in doctrine only , but in discipline too : this discipline reached to the punishing of the body . therefore we must distinguish of power : as . that there is a power instituted by christ , or exercised by his apostles , as has been evidenced : that such a power may be exercised no man can well deny , for whosoever does , is a heretick . . there is a power of confederation or consent : the which confederation or consent was either instituted in primitive times , and derived down from thence to these our dayes , such as is jurisdiction meerly ecclesiastical ; and who disobeys or separates from this power , is a schismatick at the least : or else it has been taken up by particular congregations or conventicles of men , and this is the power that these men would have , which is a meer mock power , under which they will play fast and loose at their pleasure , not unlike that of your episcopus puerorum , serving only for a christmasse season , condemned by the council of basil in pragmatica sanctione , fol. : . there is a power neither of gods donation , nor of apostolical prescription , nor of ecclesiastical institution , nor of congregational confederation [ which i said before to be no proper power at all , in as much as it is not any way obligatory to him who is under it ] but of mens own assumption , which is either imperium supra imperium ; such is the popes : or imperium in imperio & ab imperio avulsum ; such is the presbyterians , as it hath been practised in scotland . or which is tyrannical in the execution of it , by imposing new articles of faith or doctrine , contrary to the form of sound words , as the pope does do , or cutting off mens heads by inspiration , as some of the other limb of antichrist , the fanaticks have done : and so they are not to lord it over gods heritage . the fact of thomas schucker , the disciple of melohior rinchius , is not [ unlesse it be for the horridnesse of it ] to be omitted . this schucker in the middest of a numerous assembly of his own gang , pretending he was inspired from heaven , cryed , woe , woe , woe , commanded a sword to be brought him , and withall he called to his brother john to kneel down upon his knees , his parents with others asking him what he meant by this preparation , he bade them be of good chear , he being about to do nothing but what should be revealed unto him from the heavenly father . the eyes and minds of all being intent upon this new spectacle , this mad prophet drew the sword , and therewith divided his said brothers head from his shoulders , which struck his parents with great grief of heart , and the rest with terrour . being apprehended by the magistrate , who would allow him no more liberty of conscience [ for if he had , his own head might have gone after ] he suffered condign punishment for this his cruel fratricide , never all this while repenting of the crime , but constantly affirming , that this will of god was revealed unto him from heaven . this tragedy happened in fano galli . anno . and whether some men of this generation have not dyed much like him , i leave it to those that beheld them . 't is true , as these men further alledge , that the apostles were embassadours for the prince of peace , and in his stead did pray the unbelievers to be reconciled to god. and what if they would not embrace the gospel , but remain without the pale of the church ? what had they to do to judge those that were without ? cor. . . what could be expected from such , lesse then revilings , persecutions , defamations ? and what lesse is expected by god from them , then blessing , sufferings , intreatings , patience , long-suffering , love unfeigned , & c. ? sect. . the next place alledged by them is , matth. . the parable of the tares ; whereof it is said , let both grow together till the harvest . answ . i agree with them , that this place does not only respect the second , but the first table , the subject whereof is the worship of god. but withall i answer first , with that expositor they mention , that it seems not to note the duty of the civil magistrate , but the event of gods providence , namely , that god would permit the cohabitation of the wicked in the world with the just ; not that the magistrates or ministers should permit them , and not by civil punishment or ecclesiastical remove them out of the church or world , if the quality of the offence so required it . but say they , if men did not fight against the truth , they would not so eminently contradict their own sayings , for who can believe that it should be the mind of god to permit the cohabitation of the wicked in the world with the just , as aforesaid , and yet the magistrate should not permit them , but remove them by civil punishment out of the world ? hath the magistrate power to remove those out of the world , that god would have permitted to live ? how soon may a magistrate , if guided by such a doctrine , bring the bloud of the innocent upon himself and nation ? answ . here is no contradiction at all : neither doth a magistrate bring innocent bloud upon himself by going about to put those to death [ if they deserve it ] whom the event of gods providence keeps alive . when a traytour or murderer makes an escape , the event of gods providence keeps him alive , whom the magistrate would have put to death , and this without bringing innocent bloud upon himself . abraham did well in going about to sacrifice his son isaack , having a command from god to do it , yet the event of gods providence kept him alive , genes . . the gibeonites were of the hivites , whom god commanded the israelites to destroy , yet the event of gods providence kept them alive , joshua . the israelites had commission from god to fight against the benjamites the first and second time , yet the event of gods providence gave them the better till the third encounter , judges . how these particulars came to passe , may be read in their several stories . and how such events may happen frequently under a magistate using his power , is thus made good . the wise creator of all the world having afforded to every creature , a means most suitable to its nature , for the accomplishment of its end and perefection , and for the removal of impediments which lie in its way thereunto , has done no lesse to man in as much as for the encouragement of his obedience , and the removal of sin out of the way to happinesse ; [ both which are moral things ] he plies him with exhortations , comminations , blessings , curses , examples , precepts , which are moral too ; and all this may be done by the ministers of the word , or of others in their capacities . and because , if he stayed here , the major part , which have lesse of natures first institution in them , would be never the better for all these ; he hath ordained the magistracy , so to be a terrour to evil works to execute wrath on them that do evil , rom. . without which no man would be able to maintain his proprieties in goods and lands , preserve his life and liberty , and consequently all civil society [ which not men only , but even beasts , birds , fishes , and in sects themselves seem to affect ] would fall to the ground . yet let the magistrate do what he can [ and let him do but justice ] the wicked will have a cohabitation among the just , and that for these reasons ; viz. because he is not omniscient and sees not all wickednesse : . although he sees it , yet he may not by testimonies be able to convince all men of their wicked deeds : . because that though he may convince , yet all wickednesse is not capital whereof persons may be convinced , without which a man cannot be taken out of the world : and this is the event of gods providence . if they say that he might have used natural means to obstruct so great an evil as sin is , and to advance the happinesse of man , i say then , either the means must be made connatural to man , or man to the means : if the first , this is done already , in as much as moral and civil means are most connatural to man , a free agent and animal politicum . if the second , its impossible to be done in as much as it were to make him an animate thing , or at the least a brute , which work , this without choice and that without proper appetition ; and consequently he must not have made him at all : for it is well said of lactantius de falsa sapientia , which is of his works , l. . c. . who considering the devotion of plato , who gave thanks to nature for three things . . that he was born a man , and not a beast . . that he was a man rather then a woman , a grecian and not a barbarian . . that he was an athenian , and lived in the time of socrates . then which , saies he , what can be said more like a dotard , as though , if he had been a barbarian , a woman , or an asse , he had been the same plato that he was , and not that very thing which had been so born ? if they say that god then may use supernatural means by working transcendently above the wills of men without destroying their nature or abridging their freedome . whereunto it is answered that as , had god done the other , he would have destroyed his providence touching the creation of man ; so , should he do this , he would destroy his providence preparatory to the last judgement , wherein every man shall receive according to that he hath done in the body whether good or evil . but though this exposition be pious and not to be rejected , yet this parable , methinks more naturally admits of another , which i shall lay before the reader , and which may import the duty of the magistrate and minister of gods word , as well as the event of gods providence . it is thus , there are two sorts of evils which may grow up with the good seed of the law of nature implanted in man in his first creation , or of the gospel given for mans renovation . the one sort may be compared to tares ( as here ) whereof there is a sort which the greeks , say to be 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 such as grows up of it self among the wheat in an over-moist and corrupt earth , without any seed sown at all . such are those evils either in manners or opinion which though they seem to us , that cannot see all things , to grow of themselves , yet they owe their beginning to the enemy the devil , who first corrupted & endeavours daily more & more to corrupt our nature . the other sort of evils are compared to thorns and briars , heb. . . whose end is to be burned , such as are desperate and incorrigible sinners , as may be clearly seen by the scope of the apostle in that place . the first sort are evils of infirmity for the most part , which are entwisted with our nature , as tares are with corn , and therefore cannot be cut down , unlesse the good grain goes down with them , all men even the best being subject unto them . should the magistrate cut down all these , he must cut himself down for company : and should s. paul have delivered men to satan for these , he must have given himself into his hands : for though he knew nothing by himself , yet was he not hereby justified . nevertheless he used a severity towards himself by keeping down his body and bringing it into subjection , as a magistrate may do towards his ▪ subjects for reforming of lesser evils and preventing of greater ; nay s. paul had the messenger of satan , a thorn in his flesh , sent to him , least he should be puffed up with the abundance of revelations , cor. . . the second sort are evils of presumption which like bryars and thorns are not necessarily entwisted with our nature , but yet growing up amongst the good grain , will choak it , and therefore calls for present cursing , and lastly for burning , least in the end of the world , it being all become bryars and thorns , there would remain no harvest to the great husbandman to be brought into his barnes by his reapers : and so this world destroys gods providence preparatory to the last judgement on the right hand , as the forementioned supposition would destroy it on the left . sect. . their next argument is taken from the fallibility of magistrates , which renders them , they say , uncapable of judging . answ . it is true that no man is infallible : if he were , he were no man ; they needed not to have produced the authority of s. peter to prove it . and now brethren i wot that through ignorance ye did it , as did also your rulers . the which place proves it but weakly neither , in as much as there appeared much of malice in the condemnation of our saviour , in denying and delivering him to be crucified , whom pilate himself was determined to let go . they did it ignorantly only in this respect , namely , that they knew him not to be the lord of glory . s. peter makes no mention of their malice , though great , least thereby they might have thought the door of mercy to have been shut against them , and so they might have come to the same end as their ring-leader judas did . here was a double defect which occasioned a wrong judegment , one was of knowledge and a well informed understanding , the other was of an honest purpose of mind ; neither of these does destroy the power of a magistrate , the rulers remained rulers still , notwithstanding their ignorance or malice in this action . indeed plato saies , beatas civitates fore si aut philosophi regnarent , aut reges philosopharentur : 't is true , that happy is that city where princes are qualified with gifts suitable to their high calling . but if he want , it as if philosophy did give a right to anothers kingdom , or were necessarily required to the establishment of his own . i say , that then it was a saying becoming one that held a community of goods and wives , whereby he would take from some , that which was their own , and give to others that which belonged to them , lact. l. . . this consideration therefore serves only , and that very well too , as a motive to care and conscience in the exercise of power , chr. . . jehoshaphat speaking of this very matter , gave to his judges , whom he constituted , this charge , take heed and do it , or take heed the doing of it . moses , exod. . . said to god , who am i , that i should go to pharaoh , & that i should bring forth the children of israel out of egypt ? yet god would have him go and do it , exo. . . . if then the fallibility of a magistrate as being a man , or the conscience of his own weaknesse as such a person , was no argument in those daies , against the power of the magistrate or the exercise of it , how much lesse is it now under the gospel , when the light is ordinarily greater then in those times theirs was ? hereunto they will answer two things . . that magistrates under the old testament had advantages which ours have not . whereunto i shall reply anon in its due place , . that there is no such need of magistrates now : for in those daies [ the times of the gospel ] all shall know the lord. hereunto i answer , that if all , then the magistrates especially , who have a special promise for it , as is evident from what has been alledged . if arguments drawn from the law of moses prevail not with them , what will they say to the law of nature ? thus then i argue . a magistrates care ought to be about that whereupon principally depends the establishment of a commonwealth , and the suppression of opinions and men that would ruine it . but upon religion principally depends the establishment of a commonwealth , as is made good from the judgement of the very heathen themselves , as histories , and what before has been shewed , do witnesse ; therefore a magistrate ought to have a principal care of religion , even by the law of nature . this care of religion consists generally in two things , . in setting up of religion it self , without which can be expected no blessing from god upon , nor obedience from the people to the magistrate under the notion of gods vicegerent . . in avoiding of differences in opinions : for from diversities of opinions men usually fall into diversity of affection and interest , which tends to the ruine of a commonwealth . 't is true that as in a state , provided that all the citizens hold the same fundamental maxims necessary to the undergoing of duties essential to its conservation , the magistrate may tolerate amongst them a difference in many other matters of lesse importance . so it is in the church as long as every man upholds those opinions which make for the honour of god , and peace and unity of the church , in the communion whereof he lives , lesser things may be born with . but shall every man be his own judge herein ? no , for there 's a threefold judgement , a judgement of discretion , a judgement of direction , and a judgement of jurisdiction : every christian has a judgement of discretion , prove all things , hold fast that which is good , thes . . . by applying the rule of the holy scripture to his own private consolation and edification , the pastours of the church [ who are the watchmen placed over the israel , h. e. the church and house of god ] have a judgement of direction to expound the holy scriptures to others . the chief pastours to whose care the regiment of the church is committed in a more special manner , have not this only , but a higher degree of judgement , which is of jurisdiction , to enjoyn . to reform , to censure , to condemn , to bind , to loose judicially and authoritatively in their respective charges . if their key shall err , whether it be that of knowledge or jurisdiction , they are accountable to their respective superiours from thence to a national , and last of of all to a general council . and that such councils be called , such persons be settled , such charges be by the said persons daily executed , is the magistrates duty to see to , and his prerogative to command or allow . but oh what mistakes , say they , by magistrates , are continued in holland about religion , & c ? ans . if such mistakes are continued in magistrates , how would these be multiplied , if every one of the people were left to himself ? surely for one that is now , there would be ten thousand in that case . and whereas they urge popes , councils , oecumenical and national , that they have erred . it is answered , that when we yield obedience to the pope , or be concluded by the councils and synods which they alledge , they will be found to say something to the purpose . but since they cannot prove these things , they might have spared as great a many of lines , as i mean to spare in their confutation : yet the . article of our church yields more then they have proved , viz. that general councils may not be gathered together without the commandment and will of princes : and when they be gathered together [ for as much as they be an assembly of men , whereof all be not governed with the spirit and word of god ] they may erre , and sometimes have erred , even in things pertaining unto god : wherefore things ordained by them , as necessary unto salvation , have neither strength nor authority , unless it may be declared that they be taken out of the holy scripture . now what use will our adversaries here make of this our gratification ? even this , viz. what security then can a magistrate have that he does well ? answ . as much security as a judge that condemns a prisoner at the bar , in as much as the notitia juris is clear . the probation of the fact depends upon witnesses , whereupon if a guiltlesse person be condemned , the judge has done his duty by ordering the formality of the tryal , and so has delivered his own soul . sect. . next they argue from the royal law of liberty , viz. whatsoever ye would that men should do unto you , even so do ye unto them , for this is the law and the prophets . and those that are forward to persecute , would not be very zealous in their proceedings , if they were sure that those they persecute should have the power on their sides to meet the same measure unto them . answ . that when a man is punished for the committing of any thing unlawful to be done , or omitting that which is unlawful to be left undone , this only is a persecution in scripture sense . but when a man is condemned for omitting that which ought , or committing that which ought not to be done [ such are things which are either absolutely evil or good in themselves , or being indifferent are made so by the intervention of humane authority ] this is no persecution , but justice : and whosoever shall do such justice upon any man , and be willing that the prisoner should do so to him , the prisoner would either do it according to the law as his rule , and would proceed to sentence , secundum allegata & probata as to matter of fact , and so he would do well : for in reason [ from whence a well ordered will has its denomination ] he could not refuse it : or else the prisoner coming to judge , would do it in an arbitrary way , without or against law , and not secundum allegata & probata for matter of fact , but on his own head , or some underhand information of some whom the party accused shall never see nor know [ as has been practised under the late tyranny ] he were mad if he should . who would be contented that another mans bowl should have a byass , and his own have none at all ? therefore arist . rhet. . . sayes that it is most convenient that all things be determined by laws , and that as few things as may be be left to the power of the judges : and that . because it is easier to find one and a few , then many that are prudent enough to give laws , or determine causes . . because laws are made upon mature deliberation going before their sanction , but sentences are given on a sudden , which renders it difficult for the judges to do right to every man. . because [ which is the weightiest of all reasons ] the judgement of a law-giver is not of singularities and present matters , but of things future and universal : but a concional auditor and judge are to determine of present and definite things , where oftentimes either love , or hatred , or private commodity comes in ; in so much that they cannot sufficiently look into the merit of the cause , but either private interest or trouble will darken their judgement . but there is no good body of laws , wherein there is not a lex talionis , h. e. a provision made , that any man , whatsoever he be , may have his remedy against him that has done him wrong , though it were his own master that did it , for otherwise a tyranny would be introduced . and on the other side , that a man may make or expect a retribution for a favour done , otherwise ingratitude would take place . both which are grounded upon this , namely , whatsoever ye would that men should do unto you , the same do ye also unto them : and the same measure ye meet shall be measured to you again , matth. . . so sacred a thing was gratitude that the heathen ( as aristotle testifies , eth. . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ) put the temple of the graces in the way , that a man cannot walk the street , but he must stumble upon the duty . and the civil law puts it in the sole power of the parent to disinherit his son for the contrary ; whose examination is to be rescinded , and he deprived of his undeserved liberty , cod. . c. . and though our laws punish not unthankfulness to the fathers of our flesh , the fathers of our spirits , the fathers of our fortunes [ for indeed it being comprehensive of all wickednesse , no one punishment is enough for it ] yet neverthelesse the temple of the graces is not shut against these . the law is open to these with us : and therefore that royal law is so far observed . but yet in as much as the law is an universal precept , as one calls it , in the universality whereof all particular cases cannot be comprehended , therefore something of necessity must be left to the prudence of the judge to determine as he thinks meet , provided it be not against the law , which is immutable . in which case why should any man prejudge his judge , who is sworn to observe this royal law ? indeed should he do so , then what they seem to threaten by the objection here made , they might have just cause of fear : for they do as good as say , let them look to it , for trump may turn up on our side again , which if it does , the same rigour which they use to us , shall we use towards them ; a resolution , not only contrary to this royal law , but to christs commandment under the gospel , matth. . . resist not evil , but whosoever shall smite thee on the right cheek , turn to him the other also . but to answer for them as much as possibly can be said in favour of them . they may say , that they give this as a rule , which in common prudence a man would observe , not but that they would make demonstration of meekness and lenity , should the disposal of affairs fall into their hands . but i answer , that this is more then they can promise ; for so said parmenio to alexander [ when darius offered him ten thousand talents for the redemption of prisoners , with all the land he had on this side euphrates , and one of his daughters for a wife to boot ] i would take it if i were alexander ; and so would i , said alexander , if i were parmenio , plut. in vita alex. private persons know not what themselves would be , should they come to sit at the helm of government . then things that make for the interest of themselves , or their partisans , may seem convenient , which were before abominable in their eyes . one did not know that he should account the universities the only remaining glory of the nation , till he came to be head of one of the fairest colledges in the enigmatical pillars were then no longer mysteries of iniquity . another would have christ-church passe for a collegiate dean and prebends , till he found leases to be invalid without the prophane title of cathedral . a third , and he guilty of the magnum latrocinium of all , was at first for a popular government , till he had gotten upon the back of the populasse , which he perswaded that it could not mannage its liberty without a rider . and then — what then ? as a reward of their ingratitudes to the king , the father of his country , non equitem dorso , nec fraenum depulit ore . sect. . another argument is , that as it is not any wayes lawful from the word of god , for christian magistrates in the dayes of the gospel , to destroy and root out the contrary minded in religious matters [ though idolaters ] so such proceedings may sometimes prove inconsistent with the very being of nations : for suppose any nation were wholly heathenish idolaters , and the word of god coming in a-amongst them , should convert the chief magistrate , and one twentieth part of the nation more ; must he then with that twentieth part destroy all the other nineteen if they will not be converted , but continue in their heathenish idolatry ? it cannot possibly be supposed to be warrantable : and this reason holds good against the rooting up and destroying of hereticks out of the world , because an excommunicated person is as a heathen or infidel , matth. . . besides , the lord calls some at the third , some at the sixth , some at the ninth ▪ hour , others at the eleventh : he therefore that destroyes any one , though an idolater , or , &c. hinders his conversion , and so brings eternal losse to him . answ . that a magistrate providing for the establishment of a commonwealth , ought to temper his severity with christian prudence . now it were no prudence at all for him and his twentieth part to wage war with the other nineteen [ for a war this were like to beget ] in as much as instead of establishing , this would ruine himself and his commonwealth , with religion and all . suppose then that he had nineteen parts on his side , and only the twentieth part remained idolaters , were he to destroy that twentieth part ? no surely , we neither think so , nor ever said so : the reason is , because they were never yet converted [ they have not as yet cognitionem juris , the ignorance whereof excuseth them ] and who knows but that they may be in due time converted ? the question is , whether in case of revolt , ( after conversion ) to idolatry , or the like , and in case they remain , obstinate , going on to blaspheme , the church-censures may not reach them , and the civil sword over take them , and cut them off , that the infection spread no farther ? we answer , that they may ; and this is law. in god. justin . l. . tit. . de paginis , & sacrific●is & templis . qui post sanctum baptisma in errore pagan●r . manent , ultimo supplicio plectunt . let those that ask baptisme remain in the errour of the pagans , be put to death ; but for those that are not yet baptized , let them without delay take care that their children be baptized : but let the elder first be taught the scriptures , according to the canons ; and hereunto there is no such penalty annexed ; mean while all men are forbidden to assay any thing of pagan superstition , under pain of corporal torment , and condemnation to the stanneries or perpetual banishment . lege qui. ub . supra . there is a difference then betwixt a heathen , and one that is as a heathen . a heathen ought not to be excommunicated [ for it is impossible ] nor punished with death for his idolatry , though some one that is as a heathen , that is , one that hath been a christian and becomes heathen again , may ; and hereby his conversion is not hindred : for the apostle to the hebrews sayes , that its impossible for such to be renewed by repentance , heb. . . in the next place they deny that the kings majesty hath the same power in causes ecclesiastical , that the godly kings had amongst the jews ; for say they , albeit the kings of the jews had power to punish-idolaters and blasphemers , and some other transgressors of the then law of god ; yet who tells them that the magistrates under the gospel-dispensation have such power ; hath the lord jesus said any such thing , or if he has , where is it writen , nay where is it written from the beginning of genesis to the end of the revelation , that magistrates under the gospell should have the same power in religious causes , as those under the law ? if the judicial law be a rule for magistrates under the gospel to walk by , then why must it be mangled in pieces by some sort of sinners with death , and not cursers of parents , man-stealers , adulterers , sabbath-breakers which were so punishable by the judicial law ? i answer , that that place of the prophet esai . . . is between the beginninh of genesis and the end of the revelation , wherein it is said that kings shall be [ h. e. under the gospel ] thy [ that is the churches ] nursing fathers , and queens thy nursing mothers . the original is , giving suck or nourishers . now she that gives milk and nourishment to a child will not suffer the least mote to be in it , that may do the child hurt , much lesse such things as may poyson it . so it is with a christian magistrate . it is not enough to see that the milk of the word be duly distributed , to the people , but also that blasphemers and idolaters to the poyson of religion , be rooted out . to what purpose is it for him to defend her from rapine and violence from abroad [ as it is v. . ] if he leaves perdition and ruine at home ? and now whereas they say why does the magistrate punish idolatry and blasphemy with death , and not cursing of father or mother , man-stealing , adultery , sabbath-breaking ? answ . because idolatry and blasphemy are so punishable by the law of nature , as well as by the judicial law of moses . job . . sayes job's wife to him , doest thou yet retain thine integrity ? curse god and die . whereby it seems that present death was the sure reward of blaspheming god. and job . . . if sayes he , i beheld the sun when it shined , or the moon walking in brightnesse ; and my heart hath been secretly enticed , or my mouth hath kissed my hand : this also were an iniquity to be punished by the judge , for i should have denied the god that is above . from whence it is evident , that heathenish ▪ idolatry is punishable by the magistrate ; but how ? surely not with lesse then what is due to blasphemy , which see here made a consequent of idolatry . the other sins mentioned in their objection are made capital by the judicial law alone [ which indeed is in most things practicable under the gospel too , if it seems necessary or expedient to the magistrate , and not otherwise ] only as for sabbath breaking , there can be none where there is no sabbath binding , nor has been since the abrogation of the law. wherefore this their argument taken from things of different natures thus jumbled together , is as very a fallacy of many interrogations , as this is , viz. nonne socrates , plato , aristoteles , petrus , bucephalus , leviathan , sunt animalia rationalia ? for as some of these are animalia rationalia , some not ; so some of those appertain to the judicial law , some not : some may be the subject of a positive law under the gospel if it seems good to the law-giver ; some , as namely sabbath-breaking , cannot , because the jewish day , and the jewish observation of it is abrogated . hereunto they add , that the kings of the jews had advantages [ which we want ] to direct them in judgement , as the standing ▪ oracle , the vrim and thummim , extraordinary prophets . therefore ahab and others leaving these ran into various errours , persecuted orthodox prophets , as jeremy , michaia , and elijah . answ . that our adversaries even now confessed , that the punishment of idolaters , blasphemers , and some other transgressors , was written in plain precepts of the mosaical law , for in answer to an objection , page . they have these words , viz. but in answer we deny not , but the kings of the jews had power to punish idolaters , and blasphemers , and some other transgressors of the then law of god : which power was given them of god , and written in plain precepts in the mosaical law. if they had power to punish these things , then what these things were , was notoriously known ; otherwise the punishment had been unjustly inflicted . why then do they [ and that almost in the same breath ] alledge the urim and thummim , oracle and prophets to direct judges in matter of law and jus universale , which every man is bound to take notice of ? and for matter of fact , urim , thummim , oracle and prophets were extraordinary wayes of discovery of this or of any thing else , never to be made use of but when the thing could not otherwise be known , and that in a matter of great moment too . the ordinary way of discovering matter of fact was by witnesses , or the confession of the party . in case the party would not acknowledge the fault , then in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word shall be established , deut. . . and is not the same rule given in the gospel , mat. . ? the want therefore of urim and thummim , oracle and extraordinary prophets , did not abolish the right use of the magistrate ; for then after the captivity the jews had never had the right use of the magistrate . now then , if excellent magistrates under the law [ such as were zorobabel and nehemiah ] had no other advantages to magistracy then we have under the gospel , their arguments , drawn from advantages which the jews had above the christians , falls to the ground , and nothing hinders , but that we may have as good a magistracy under the gospel as they had under the law , and altogether as infallible too , or rather [ i might have said ] as little fallible , for that they were actually fallible is evident , neh. . , . where we read , that some of the priests off-spring sought for the register of their genealogy , but it could not be found . what then ? the tirshatha or governour could not resolve it how it stood , as formerly such things were done : and therefore they were not to eat of the holy things till there stood up a priest with urim and thummim , which never came to pass : and now , i pray you , where was their greater infallibility from this time to the coming of christ [ which was the space of five hundred and thirty years ] then magistrates have ever since had ? as for ahab , whom they urge to have erred , i say , that he erred , not for want of advantages which others had , but for want of an honest purpose of mind , which hindered the right use of those advantages , he being a man that had sold himself to do iniquity , mean while he ceased not to be a magistrate . another argument they draw from the different dispensations of the gospel from those of the law. these dispensations are now adayes more talked of then explained or understood , and least of all in this present affair . the dispensations are different , say they , and why ? because , forsooth , under the gospel transgressors are not to be proceeded against , as under moses , by external force and power : god in patience and long-suffering waiting on men . answ . if transgressors are not to be proceeded against , under the gospel , by external power , how is it then said , that the power beareth not the sword in vain , and that it is the minister of god to execute wrath on them that do evil , rom. . ? by evil is understood ▪ all evil , it being in materia necessaria , according to that of pro . . a king that sitteth on the throne of judgement scattereth away all evil . if all , then it is evil committed as well in spiritual as secular things . and then for patience and long-suffering towards sinners , expecting their repentance : as god is the same god , so has his patience and long-suffering been heretofore as much as now under the gospel . was he not one hundred and twenty years before he brought the floud upon the world of the ungodly ? and was he not grieved forty years with his people , before he sware that they should not enter into his rest , psalm . and heb. . whereas now god expects a present embracing of grace offered , cor. . . now is the accepted time , future repentance is not to be presumed upon . but , say they , when any continues in disobedience to the gospel , his punishment is eternal in the world to come ; therefore as the apostle saith , cor. . . judge nothing before the time until the lord come , who will bring to light hidden things of darkness , and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts , and then shall every man have praise of god. answ . and so when any one continues in disobedience to the law , his punishment is eternal too . but what is this place to a mans continuance in disobedience to the gospel ? is it not alledged by st. paul himself a preacher of the gospel ? he would not be judged before the time ; for what ? for his not continuance in obedience to the gospel ? nothing less ; for he ever continued in obedience to it , and ever preached it . the question was , whether he were faithful in this his stewardship or no ? whereof they were not to be judges , but god alone the searcher of the heart . st. paul himself knew nothing by himself , yet was he not thereby justified . the heart of man is deceitful above all things : and if a man may be deceived in his own heart , it were a rash thing to judge another mans , and that before the time that the hidden things of darkness shall be brought to light , and the secrets of all hearts shall be disclosed to the view of all men , as now they are to god. it is therefore rash and bottomless judgement that the apostle here forbids , not that which is passed upon good grounds and serious deliberation . . it is saucy censure that is here forbidden , to wit , that they being private men should go about to censure their apostle and preacher , when they were rather to be judged by him . . it is impertinent judgement that is here forbidden , in going about to judge the heart , when man looketh on the outward appearance only , and judgeth in matter of fact [ not in matter of thought ] and this is all the magistrate himself pretends to , wherein it is lawful for him to judge , which is confirmed by the same apostle , cor. . . are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters ? and v. . he takes it for granted , that they have judgement in things pertaining to this life . but , say they , st. paul , tim. . . sayes , that he was a blasphemer and a persecuter and if the mind of god had been that he should have suffered death in that condition , how should he have had repentance given him , and been such a glorious instrument in the church as afterwards he was ? answ . that it was neither the mind of god , nor the duty of the magistrate , to cut off st. paul for blasphemy before his conversion , as this was ; and in the time of ignorance , when nor he , nor the magistrates , under whom he lived , knew it to be blasphemy to speak against christ or christians . hence it was that he said , that he obtained mercy . the jews knew not christ to be the lord of glory for had they known it they would not have crucified him . wherefore st. peter shews them , that a door of mercy was yet opened unto them . the same may be said of the jews , alledged by our adversaries here . the jews were never yet converted to christianity , which may be the reason why they are not punished nor condemned for blasphemy against christ . but in that they say , that the jews are the greatest blasphemers of christ that are on the earth , this is true only implicitely ; for should they explicitly blaspheme they were worthy of punishment , yea and were punished by the imperial laws , as may be seen in cod , justiniani l. . c. . de judaeis & caelicolis , where it is decreed , that if any of those judaei or caelicolae did attempt any mischief against them that refused to entertain their sect , they and their confederates should be committed to the fire . and again , if any jew did presume but to traduce any one to his religion , he was to be condemned to a proscription of his goods , and punished after a miserable manner . and a third law sayes , that if a jew presumed to draw a christian to his religion , he was to be proscribed , and sustein the punishment of bloud . they have been heretofore permitted to live here , as they are now elsewhere amongst christians , but how little it has wrought upon them all the world knows . it is not gods time yet , it seems , to take away the vail that is drawn over their eyes . mean while you must understand , that the jews remaining jews , do not acknowledge themselves the natural subjects of any prince in the world . they will admit themselves to be the local subjects of those under whom they are , and will not be received to that neither , but upon conditions of freedome ; wherefore it was a law imperial , cod. justin . l. . tit. . de judaeis & caelicolis , ritus suos citra contemptum christianae religionis retineant ; that they might retain their rites without contempt of the christian religion . neither will it be for the purpose of our adversaries to urge the toleration of more then one religion in other parts of the world , as in france and several parts of germany : for first , in tolerating of them , they tolerate not blasphemy or heathenish idolatry : for in france it self their civil courts take cognizance , des crimes de leze-majeste divine & humaine , h. e. of crimes of treason against god and the king. . in france the king permits but two religions , not all , as these men would have done here . so in germany popery and the augustane confession have been permitted together , but not all religions : and how comes even these things to pass , but because princes give away that power over the church , wherein god has vested them , to the pope , or people , that the king of france hath so done is clear from the pragmatica sanctio : wherein it s acknowledged that the kings of france own originally , no superiour , but god , and that without the said pragmatical sanction , the acts of the council of basil were of no validity , which was done at bourges by an assembly of the estates , and confirmed by the king , shortly after the celebration of the said council of basil , which was anno domini , . and that this hath ever since obtained in france appears by the following censure of the contrary doctrine . censure de la sacree faculte de theologie de paris , contre la puissance temporelle du pape . le premier jour d' auril mil six cents vingt six , apres la messe du st. esprit , l' assemblee s estant faite a l a●coustumee en la salle du college de sorbonne , touchant le lieure impie de saternelly jesuite , ouy le rapport de docteurs que la faculte avoit deputez , lesquels ont expose qu es deux chapistres qui leur avoiint estez marquez , estoyent contenues les propositions suivantes : que le pape peut punir les roys & les princes de peines temporelles , les deposer & priver de leur royaume & estats pour crime d' heresie & deliurer leurs sujects de leur obeissance : & que telle a tousjours este la coustume de l' eglise . et non sculement pour l' heresie mais encore pour d' autres causes , ascavoir pour leur pechez s' il est ainsi expedient : si les prences sont negligens : s' ils sont incapables & inutiles . de plus que le pape a la puissance sur les choses spirituelles , & sur toutes les temporelles , & qu'il a cette puissance de droit divin . qu'il faut croire que le pouvoir a este donne a l' eglise & a son souverain pasteur de punir de peines temporelles les princes qui pechent contre les loix divines & humaines : particulierement si leur crime est une heresie . ils ont aussi dit que saternelly affirme que les apostres estoient bien sujects au princes seculiers , mais non de droit , & mesme qu' aussi tost que la majestie du souverain pontife a este establie , tous les princes luy ont este sujects bref ils ont rapporte que cet autheur explique ces paroles de jesus christ , mat. . tout ce que vous liez sur la terre & non seulement de la puissance spirituelle , mais aussi de la temporelle , & qu'il corrompt le text de st. paul ▪ ad cor. . potestatem dedit nobis dominus in aedificationem & non in destructionem , en retranchant une negation , & fait dire a plusieurs autheurs , qu'il cite de choses a quoy ils n'ont jamais pense . concluans que tant , ces choses que plusie autres qu'ils ont rapportees meritoient tres-justement la correction & la censure de la faculte : monsieur le doyen ayant mis la chose en deliberation apres que les opinions de tous les docteurs ont este , ouyes & leurs voix recuillies la faculte a improuve & condamne la doctrine contenue en ces propositions , & aux conclusions desdites chapitres comme estant nouvelles , fausses , erronees , & contraire a la parole de dieu , qui rend la dignite du souverain pontife odieux , & ouvre la chemin au scisme , qui deroge , a l' authorite souverain de roys , qui ne depend que de dieu seul , & empeche la conversion de princes infidels & heretiques : qui trouble la paix universelle & renverse les royaumes , les estats , & les republiques , bref qui detaurne les sujets de l' obeissance qu'ils doivent a leur souverains , & les induit a des factions , rebellions & seditions , & a attenter de la vie de leur princes . fait en sorbonne , les jour & an que dessus , & receu le . auril . . par le commandement de messieurs les doyens & docteurs de la sacree faculte de theologie de paris . signe ph. bouvot . the french deriving themselves from the confines of germany . the like may be said of the german powers : and the powers that are are of god , rom. . and depend immediately upon him . but these powers , i say , are for the most part given away to the pope by the true owners of them ; whereas did they reform religion by their own authority , as the kings of england have done , all men might quickly be brought to subscribe and submit to that religion and government , which they should authorize according to the word of god , and the consent of antiquity , which would never have been brought to pass in england , had the kings referred themselves herein to pope or people . and whereas they urge that it makes for the security of princes to give libehty to all . i answer , that then this security must be either from god or man : from god it cannot be , in as much as he that gives liberty to all religions evidently shews that he has no regard of any , but meerly as to the notion of it : in which case , what security can he expect from god ? neither let our present adversaries think they please god in pleading for a liberty of blasphemy , though they pretend that their very soul abhor it : from man it will not be , for thereby he will create as many interests as religions , which will unite against the lawfullest of all [ which they know will aim at an uniformity ] though they shall no sooner have beaten down this then they will fall a squabbling among themselves . in which regard it may be said of them as plutarch speaks of caesar and pompey , namely , that it was not their dissension which was the cause of the civil war , as was commonly supposed , but their union rather , in as much as they first went about to ruine the authority of the senate and of the nobility , and then they quarrelled among themselves , a thing , saies he , which cato many times foretold and prophesied . those that aim at usurpation catch most fish in these troubled waters . thus did jeroboam , whom our adversaries instance in , as if it made for them , when indeed they could not have found an example in all the bible , or in all the world , that makes more against them . they say that jeroboam wanting faith to believe that his new kingdom could any ways be secured to him , or kept from going back to the linage of david , unless he devised some new way of worship to keep the people in their own land , and for his so doing he thought he had much reason of state : whereupon he took counsel and made two calves of gold , kin. . , , . and said unto them , it is too much for you to go up to jerusalem ; behold thy god , o israel , which brought thee out of the land of egypt , which policy of his procured this event which god denounced against him , saying , i will bring evil upon the house of jeroboam , and will cut off from jeroboam him that pisseth against the wall , and him that is shut up and left in israel , and will take away the remnant of the house of jeroboam , as a man taketh away dung till it be all gone . and kin. . , for the sin wherein he made israel to sin is he branded to all posterity , &c. whereunto they adde by way of application , be wise new therefore o ye kings , ps . . answ . they should have said , be wise now therefore o ye rebels , such jeroboam was . this jeroboam an obscure fellow , and servant to solomon , kin. . . rebelled against his king , and by his artifices drew away ten tribes after him from rehoboam , and the house of david under which the true worship of god remained and flourished . now jeroboam considering that he was but a rod sent to scourge gods people , and to be thrown into the fire at last ▪ used all means to cross providence , and to perpetuate the kingdom to himself and his posterity , which he knew to rest chiefly in the business of religion . then well weighing that if he suffered the people to use their old way of worship , it would prove a means to reduce them to obedience to their lawful sovereign . he therefore perswades them that they need not go to jerusalem , saying that the calves which he had set up , the one in bethel , and the other in dan , were the gods which brought them out of the land of egypt : for which the curse of god lighted on his family , as our adversaries have noted , and he was branded with a note of perpetual infamy so often repeated in the history of the kings of israel , viz. jeroboam the son of nebat who made israel to sin . just so was it here : we had a jeroboam who rebelled against his king , after whose death [ which he contrived too ] he carried away the proportion of ten tribes after him : and the better to assure them to himself , told them they need not look after churches and steeple-houses , nor the religion which was there taught and practised by those that frequented them , that they might set up the golden calves of their own spirits , and adore them where they pleased , made priests of the lowest of the people , which were not of the tribe of levi. that is , sent those to preach and pray that had neither ordination nor learning . now he is gone , and how much more of this dunghill is swept away , i cannot precisely tell , but this note of infamy will rest upon him , namely , that he made england , scotland , and ireland to sin . and thus we see how their own argument ab exemplo , in every particular makes against themselves , and against that liberty they contend for , so unlucky they have been in it . sect. . in the next place they press the liberty granted to tender consciences by the kings majesties declaration from bredah . ans . and so they had it , till that fell out which might be foreseen , viz. a making use of it to an insurrection in london , which might have put all the kingdom into a flame , had they not been as fanatick in their undertake as in their opinions , perswading themselves that one of them should chase a thousand . and why this liberty was restrained , is set forth in the kings majesties proclamation to that purpose , by whom it was never intended to grant a liberty to others which might put a restraint upon his majesties own self at last . as for what they urge out of dr. taylor , lord bishop of down and conner in his liberty of prophesying , and his epistle dedicatory to it , i say that he might think it high time , even for the orthodox to cry up a liberty of opinions amongst the rest , when the cry of others had prevailed for the liberty of all religions but the true : and our adversaries , to render their present cry the greater , produce the testimony of the ancients in the margin . but to make up the number . which they promised in their title page , they have made some of them separatists from themselves , by dividing minutius from faelix , sulpitius from severus , socrates from scolasticus ; for otherwise they had had but a petty jury : this they never took from that learned bishop : since then , male describendo , yea , and male vertendo too , these have made them their own ; my task will be to answer them only : the thing insisted on this , that for the first . years there was no sign of persecuting of any man for his opinion , though at that time there were many horrid opinions commenced . answ . that this is either generally to be understood : h. e. of christianity in general persecuted ; or else of any man or mens being persecuted by other christian or christians for matter of opinion . if generally understood , i oppose thereunto the persecutions , which happened in the first . years . the . was under nero , anno . whose decree was that to confesse a mans self to be a christian , should be capital . the . under domitian , ann . . the . under trajan , ann . . whereof plini to trajan , l. . epist . . the . under adrian , and antoninus piuy , ann . . the ▪ under antoninus philosophus , and antoninus verus , ann . . the ▪ under severus , ann . . the . under maximinus , ann ▪ . the . under decius , an . . the . under valerianus , ann . . the tenth under diocletian , ann . . if this would be understood restrictively of any man or mens being persecuted by other christians : i answer , . that i hope they will recall their word persecuting . horrid opinions may be prosecuted and punished , not persecuted ; i mean in the scripture acception of the word , though in the law it be so accounted . god. l. . t. . l g. manichaeos seu manichaeas vel donatista meritissima severitate persequimur . . if horrid opinions were only commenced , they were but begun ; but sin when it is perfected ( and not before ) bringeth forth death by the laws of god , and if horrid sin , by man too . . for prosecuting , or ( as they call it ) persecuting for opinions , either commenced or perfected , what power had they to do it withall , when all the emperours were heathen , & there was no eminent magistrate to take cognizance of differences among christians themselves , otherwise then to foment them , that thereby they might become the ruine one of another ? . of the authors alledged , the historians ( whom only i look upon for matter of fact ) say nothing in the business , and therefore prove nothing at all . as for instance , sulpitius severus says nothing of one christians persecuting another . ergo , one christian did not persecute another : this is a non sequitur , it being an argument from humane authority , and therefore holds not negatively , especially from the authority of one that has written but an epitome , a very manual of history , which cannot be comprehensive of all things , neither does he mention any thing but the ten persecutions , and what relates to them in all that three hundred years , which he does too in less then one hundred and fifty lines in octavo , of a st. augustine print , which could not have been much had it been so many lines in a minion or nonparil . and as sulpitius severus did not , so socrates scholasticus could not speak any thing of this matter , in as much as his history begins with constantine , which was after the expiration of the said three hundred years . thirdly , did any of those authours speak against persecution for matter of opinion ? then this is an argument that there was such a persecution ( so our adversaries are pleased to call it ) or else they fought with a shadow . their dislike hereof consisted in two things , . that any should be put to death meerly for his opinion , and this was st. austin's dislike , who was first of opinion that it was not honest to use any violence to misperswaded persons , but afterwards he retracted it , retract . l. . c. . quoted by the dr. himself lib. of proph . sect . . we agree with st. austin , as we have signified all along , that no man is to be put to death for simple heresy , h. e. qua heresy , unless it has joyned with it blasphemy , heathenish idolatry , sedition , or the like . the doctour himself allows punishing romish priests with death , not as for religion , but as enemies to the state , serm. at st. maries on gunpow . treason , neither does the said dr. disallow of laws for punishing of hereticks in general with corporal punishment ; only he would have the execution of those laws upon emergencies committed to the discretion of the governours of the church , ib. sect . . the second thing those forementioned authours or any of them disliked was , that any man should be compelled to a religion , not that he should be corrected for his wandrings from it : and so much is learned from tertullian ad scap. nec religionis est cogere religionem , quae sponte suscipi debet , non vi ; and this has been our tenet all along . but , say they , this restraining of liberty , imposing upon mens consciences , and lording over their faith , came in with the train and retinue of antichrist , that is , they came as other abuses and corruptions of the church did , by reason of the iniquity of the times , and the cooling of the first heats of christianity , and the increase of interest , and the abatement of christian simplicity . ans . that if this restraining , and imposing , and lording be meant of the popes infallibility , and resolving every thing into that chimera , then i agree , that it came in with the train and retinue of antichrist . and it s an argument the men of this generation are the train and retinue of antichrist , whose opiniatreté or self-conceitedness is such , that every one thinks himself a pope in that regard . therefore the granting of liberty to them is to acknowledge their infallibility , and consequently , were there a thousand religions amongst them , every one must be acknowledged to be the true ; and then what would become of one lord , one faith , one baptisme ? ephes . . . but if this restraining be meant of any other restraint by the civil magistrate ; liberty was restrained before phocas his times [ who was called the midwife of antichrist ] as may be seen in cod. justiniani l. . t. . and t. . which code was composed , [ anno . and . above seventy years before phocas ] not of laws then newly enacted , but of such as had been made by his predecessors long before , amongst which those that touch the present business were those of arcadius , honorius , valentinianus , theodosius , &c. all promoters of the orthodox faith , and therefore ushered not in the train and retinue of antichrist , which never did so lordly and imperiously appear as in pope hildebrand , called gregory the seventh ▪ who sate at rome between four hundred and five hundred years after phocas , and above five hundred and forty years after the last composure of the code . he first of all the popes excommunicated the emperour , and arrogated to himself the power of instituting an emperour . i agree likewise , that the king of france his giving permission to the huguenots has proved prosperous to that nation , though most prosperous to the huguenots themselves , who have found more happiness in peace and obedience , then ever they did in rebellion , and holding out against the power and authority of their king. but had he given the same liberty to all religions , it must have been the confusion of it , and as displeasant to the huguenots , as the denyal of liberty to themselves had been before . in every assembly of the huguenots the king has a commissary , to see that nothing be decreed amongst them against the interest of the crown : but how can such a thing be among men of all religions , and no principles ? i agree likewise , that liberty of conscience should be preserved in all things where god hath not made a limit : for the article of our church , before mentioned , sayes , that she has not power to impose any thing contrary to the word of god , yea o● besides it , as necessary to salvation . i agree , that the soul of man should be free , and acknowledge no master but jesus christ : and yet may it be subject to humane laws , which do bind the conscience in themselves , not for themselves , but for and on the behalf of god and jesus christ , who commandeth every soul to be subject to the higher power , rom. . and in this regard matters spiritual may be restrained by punishments corporal as we have already said . i agree too , that meeknesse , and charity , and longanimity should be exercised towards those in errour : and lastly , that the infirmity of man , and difficulty of things , should be both put in the balance to make abatement in the desinitive sentences against mens persons . but what is all this to idolatry , sedition , and blasphemy , which our adversaries have herein endeavoured to maintain as not punishable by the magistrate ? and what is this to those steams of opinions breathed out of the bottomlesse pit , against which they would not have the magistrate as much as hold his nose ? therefore they go on and say , that the best of men , and most glorious princes , were alwayes ready to give toleration , but never to make execution for matters disputable , as eusebius in his second book of the life of constantine reports . ans . all this we grant : but what is all this to horrid opinions , or practises , against which severe laws were made by glorious princes ? these were not os things disputable , & de quibusdam voculis , as they are termed in the title of the chapter of the said second book of eusebius , concerning which there was no law made , nor like to be made , against which any toleration or whereupon any sentence might be given , upon which any execution might be suspended . but they were of matters of higher concern , as will appear by the laws themselves . the first was that of constantine the great , who after the nicene council commanded the books of arius to be burnt , and that he who neglected it should be put to death , as is observed by alphonsus a castro . de just a hereticorum punitione l. . c ▪ . so theodosius commanded the donatists to be put to death , as minus celsus senensis himself witnesseth . but the cod. of justinian ▪ l ▪ , tit. . testifies more in this matter then i need now to write , wherein we find that there is a law made by the emperours gratian , valentinian , and theodosius , for the perpetual silencing of heresies and hereticks , ut haereses perpetuo quiescant . another for interdicting all conventicles of them to be held either night or day , made by arcadius and honorius . another against the manichees in particular , that they be out-laws , suffer a publication of their goods , barred of all liberality of , or succession to others , that all power of giving , or selling , or contracting be taken away from them , and much more . another made by theodosius and valentinian , against the arians , macedonians , pneumatomachi , apollinartans , novatians , or sebatians , eunomians , tetradites or tessarescaedecadites , valentinians , paulians , papianists , montanists , or pricillianists , the phryges or praepusites , marcionites , borborites , messalians , euchites , or enthusiasts , donatists , audians , hydroparastats , tascodrogites , batrachites , hermogenians , photinians , paulianians , marcellians , ophites , encratists , carpocratites , saccophorites , ( & qui ad imam usque scelerum nequitiam pervenerunt ) the manichees , that they have no place either of abode or convening , in romanum locum . as for the manichees , they were not only to be banished the cities , but they were to be ( tradendi ultimo supplicio ) delivered to death , least the elements should be infected with them , or injured by them . another law was made by them , that they that adhered to the opinion of nestorius should not be called christians , but nestorians , from their author nestorius , whose impious books , written against the decrees of the council of ephesus , every man was forbidden to have , to read , or to write out , but were diligently to be searched for and burned . all places of meeting were thereby forbidden these nestorians ; and whoso offended against this law , was to suffer publication of his goods . another law was made by valen. and marcian , against the followers of eutyches , whose opinions were condemned by the council of nice , consisting of three hundred and eighteen fathers , and in the constantinopolitan council , consisting of one hundred and fifty other bishops . these were called also apollinarists , and were to ordain no presbyters under pain of confiscation ; they were to have no monasteries , nor meetings by day or by night , under pain of forfeiture of the house , if the owner were aware of it , or else ten pound in gold : they were to have no room in the militia , &c. divers other laws are there to be seen , whereby the manichees are punishable with death , other hereticks with confiscation , or the like . now albeit the capital punishments here mentioned were seldome inflicted , yet others doubtless were , even those of banishment and confiscation . [ nay , as we have noted before , that severe laws were made against the misbehaviour of the jews . so soc. scholast . tells us , h st . . . that condign punishment was undergone by some of them , upon the command of the emperour , for scossing at christ and christianity in their crucifixion of a christian boy ] to these laws , it is probable that king james had an eye in his declaration against vorstius , sent by an embassadour to the states of holland , wherein he manifesteth his detestation of vorstius's horrid opinions , as deserving the banishment of the author , rather then the honour of his being a publick professor in that famous university of leyden . and this learned king of happy memory i mention , the rather , because our adversaries alledge him writing to the united provinces , and advising them to maintain peace , by bearing one with another in ( such ) differences of opinions and judgement . answ . this is true , if by such differences be meant disputable things , and such perhaps as were meant by constantine in the foresaid . c. of the second book of eusebius , though not the same , wherein he would have men perswaded to a pious syncretisme rather then a schisme , which might occasion the magistrate to make use of his sword : which wholesome counsel it were to be wished men would take amongst us : where one party decryes the other for arminian , which is it self as fast decryed for calvinist , on the other side , both , though they differ in their doctrines , agree in their uses and applications , and take all the articles of our church to be for them , as is observed by the kings majesty of blessed memory , in his declaration set before the book of articles . but that they might as well agree in doctrines as uses , they should do well to take up that excellent moderation prescribed by our church in the close of the seventeenth article , which is , that gods promises are to be received [ not to curious disputes , but ] as they are generally set forth in the scripture , and in our doings that will of god is to be followed , which we have expresly declared unto us in the word of god. and as for the emperours , and duke of savoy's tolerations , together with that of polonia and rome it self , alledged here for their defence : i say , it is one thing what they did upon state policy , and another thing what they would have done , had they not been under a necessity of doing it . the king of spain has made a peace with the hollander , notwithstanding his claim he makes to the low countries ; why ? because he has irons enough in the fire elsewhere . the case was so with ferdinand of germany , emanuel of savoy , the state of poland , the emperours of rome , a necessity lying upon them to do as they did : but by the way i must tell you , that there were laws made against the novatians before justinian's time , witness that before quoted out of the code , which was enacted by theodosius and valentinian against that rabble of hereticks , whereof the novatians were a part ; and even that law refers to others formerly made particularly against their conventicles , which they falsly called churches . neither did the others want laws against a liberty of religion , though they thought it necessary to tolerate it . which necessity ceasing , the popes [ as their following words would have it ] were the first preachers of force and violence in matters of religion , and yet it came not so sar as death , but the first that preached that doctrine was dominick the founder of the order of begging fryars . answ . that ( as i conceive ) neither were the popes the first preachers of force and violence , neither was dominick the first founder of begging fryars ; for i have already proved , that force in this case has been practised before , taught by st. austin , and approved by god himself , in giving men into the hands of satan for the punishment of the flesh . nay did not the whole christian world agree together upon the same principle in the holy war against infidels [ which is more then we have undertaken to justify ] though the same power which was raised against them , was turned against christians upon the instigation of dominick ? this dominick was not the founder of begging fryars [ for these owe their beginning to s. francis of assize ] but of a new order of working fryars , who being unable to maintain themselves by working , were forced to piece out their maintenance by begging . the new order i call them : for here even in this island about six hundred years before dominick , the monks of bangor were about two thousand and one hundred that lived upon the work of their hands , as bede witnesseth . hist . eccles . gent. ang. l. . c. . in the next place , to the pretended injustice of the executions that are urged to have been done in the reign of henry the fourth for matter of opinion , i say that what was done , was occasioned not so much for opinions , as for the hostile manner that the assertors of those opinions assembled themselves in , which was pernicious in it self , and dangerous to the state. these were called by several names , one whereof was lollards , not as owing their beginning to lollardus a german [ if i may have the liberty of conjecture ] but as being so called , quasi lowlords , h. e. levellers : for in acts and monuments they are also written lolleards , the termination whereof comes near to the scottish word laird for lord. in the last place it is objected , why are we so zealous against th se we call hereticks , and yet great friends with drunkards , and fornicatours , and swearers , and intemperate , and idle persons , &c. answ . this argument holds for those that are onely called hereticks , but are not certainly known to be so : whereas that which is heresy indeed is a spiritual drunkenness , and a spiritual fornication , and which usually carries along with it an interest destructive to the king and church , which hereticks will fight for as eagerly , as a corporal fornicatour will do for his paramour ; and therefore more severely to be punished then corporal drunkenness in those that are guilty of it : for it may be said of corporal drunkards , as caesar did of dolabella , whom he was advised to beware of , i am not afraid , said he , of such fat perewig'd fellows as he ; they are the pale and the lean men that i stand in fear of , meaning cassius and brutus ; so plut. in vita caesaris . yet this i adde namely , that he who is a friend to an unbounded liberty of opinions [ such as these men contend for ] is a friend to drunkenness too , inasmuch as he that hath liberty to think what he pleases in any thing [ for hither these men would extend liberty ] will judge it lawfull to take a cup too much at sometimes . and where have you greater drinking then amongst the low-countrey men , where liberty of opinion is allowed ? in so much , that a very famous man [ and he a publick professour too ] failing his auditours of a lecture one day , made an apology for himself the next , and said , the reason was that he had been drunk over night . this i had from one of the greatest friends they have in england , and therefore not very likely to raise a false report of them . and to let you know that this nation observes no just measure in any thing appertaining to god or caesar ; another hath expressed this their moral scazon , by a metrical one , in these words , utrinque clauda gens batâva jampridem est : sed cur , & unde nosse vis ? id in promptu . deo rebellis , & rebellis est regi . hi nonne summo jure dicier claudi per omne crus , & omne per latus possunt , quibus est fides luxata , valga , distorta , fide litasque facta loripes to●a ? the batavan on both feet goes awry : wouldst know the cause ? i 'le tell thee by and by . he 's rebel both ' gainst god , and ' gainst his prince . and he whose cheverel conscience can dispense with faith to th' one , and fealty to th' other , his legs , and sides , and all will halt together . as for disputations so much desired ; they are good in themselves , but , for the most part , so partially reported , that i have seldome known any good come of them : for when men cannot confute what others say , they will make them say what they can confute . finis . errata majora . in the contents . sect . read situation . sect . for roam read romn . read lolla●ds . pag. . lin . . read ● . l. . read ieneratio . p. . l. . read stirred up . p. . l. . read if this ●e ● t the very . p. . l. . read sacerdotales . p . l. read dis germ. ● . . p. . l. . read de lmper . sum . p●t . p. . l. . read schedius and dis. p. . l. . read synode . p. . l. . read rejet●n . l. . read ailes ▪ p. . l. . dele are . l. . read azarias and villalpandus . l. . read roman and dele together . p. . l . read continuous . l. . read plane . l. . read an oblong . l. . read given . l. . dele colon : l. , read seem . l. . read letters . p. l. . read norti● . and l. . read exception . p , . l. . read nebuchadnezzar's . p. . l. . read gyges . p. ● . l. . dele . p. . l. ● . read swallow . p. . l. . read rebuking . p. . l. . dele if . p. . l. . read laws . p. . l. ult . read agree . p. . l. . read ●● the same effect . l. . for by read of . p. . l. . dele of . l. . dele so l. . read inanimate , p. . l. . read hereunto ▪ p. . l. . read would destroy . l. ult . for want it , read meant it . p. . l. . read take heed in . p. . l. . for unlawfull read lawfull . p. . l. ult . for examination read emancipation . p. . l. . for c. . read tit . . l. . ● for of read to . p. . l. . for lib. . read lib. . l. ● . read paganis . l. . read pl●●untur . l. . for ask read after . l. ult . read by punishing so me ●ort . l. ● . read without delay bring themselve ▪ and theirs to the holy assemblies , and. l. . for lege qui , read lege name ●a . p. ● . l. . for c. . read ● . ● . p. ● . l. . read ● . l. . read liure . l. . read fa. culte . l. . read expose . and read chapitres . p. ● . l. ●● . ●ad sujets . l. . read obeissanc●l . . read b ▪ ●●n fai●● sujets . l. . read sujets . l. . read &c. l. . read pense . l. . read plusiers . l. ● . dele , p , . l. . read detour●● . l. . read sa●r● . p. . l. . read in-sisted on is this . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e * viz. dr. owen in his 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . l. . digres . . the christian moderator: the second part; or, persecution for religion condemned by the light of nature. law of god. evidence of our own principles. with an explanation of the roman catholick belief, concerning these four points: their church, worship, justification and civill government. whereunto there are new additions since the octavo was printed. christian moderator. part birchley, william, - . this text is an enriched version of the tcp digital transcription a of text r in the english short title catalog (wing a ). textual changes and metadata enrichments aim at making the text more computationally tractable, easier to read, and suitable for network-based collaborative curation by amateur and professional end users from many walks of life. the text has been tokenized and linguistically annotated with morphadorner. the annotation includes standard spellings that support the display of a text in a standardized format that preserves archaic forms ('loveth', 'seekest'). textual changes aim at restoring the text the author or stationer meant to publish. this text has not been fully proofread approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. earlyprint project evanston,il, notre dame, in, st. louis, mo a wing a estc r this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) the christian moderator: the second part; or, persecution for religion condemned by the light of nature. law of god. evidence of our own principles. with an explanation of the roman catholick belief, concerning these four points: their church, worship, justification and civill government. whereunto there are new additions since the octavo was printed. christian moderator. part birchley, william, - . p. printed for h.j., [london] : . signed at end: will. birchley [the pseudonym of john austin]. the words "light .. principles." are gathered by a left brace on the title page. place of publication from wing (cd-rom edition). reproduction of original in the university of illinois (urbana-champaign campus). library. eng religious tolerance -- england -- early works to . a r (wing a ). civilwar no the christian moderator: the second part; or, persecution for religion condemned; by the light of nature. law of god. evidence of our own pr birchley, william b the rate of defects per , words puts this text in the b category of texts with fewer than defects per , words. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - aptara keyed and coded from proquest page images - emma (leeson) huber sampled and proofread - emma (leeson) huber text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion the christian moderator : the second part ; or , persecvtion for religion condemned ; by the light of nature . law of god . evidence of our own principles . with an explanation of the roman catholick belief , concerning these four points : their church , worship , justification and civill government . james . . so speak you and so do , as they that are judged by the law of liberty ; for they shall be judged without mercy , that have shewed no mercy . mille hominum species , & rerum discolor usus , per me equidem sint omnia protinus alba . whereunto there are new additions since the octavo was printed . printed for h. j. . persecution for religion condemned , &c. in the precedent part of this discourse , i have demonstrated ( according to that light which the lord christ hath infused into my soul ) how much coercency in religion is repugnant to the law of nature , and , by many evident and unanswerable texts of scripture , shewed , how displeasing it is to god , how improper to advance the power of godlinesse , and how extremly disaggreeable to the sweet spirit , which guided our lord jesus in the propagation of his gospel . and after in the same little treatise i proceed to prove ( by the expresse words of the parliaments and armies declarations ) that the great principle wherein we glory , and which we have so long fought to establish , is a perfect gospel-freedom , and absolute deliverance of the conscience from all tyranny and oppression . which discourse as i composed in all humbleness of spirit , and afterwards offered to the gracious redeemer of our souls , who gave me strength and power to finish it to his glory : so i finde not onely my self ( for which i humbly thank the bounty of my god ) confirmed in my former judgement , but others in some measure convinced in theirs , of the unreasonablenes and sin of conscience-persecution . concerning which pious and modest temper of mutuall forbearance , i shall only add to what i have mentioned in the former part , this plain and familiar observation , that as the surest mark of a tender conscience in our selves , is a tender spirit to others , so the most infallible sign of a hard and stony heart in our brests , is when we slit in pieces and shipwrack the consciences of all that touch upon us : but praised for ever be the name of our god , who still proceeds to guide and illuminate his chosen , graciously disposing them neither to presume upon themselves for their knowledge , nor be cruell against others for their ignorance , but humbly adore and wait upon the divine providence in the disposure of all things : which fils my soul with exceeding joy , when i consider it to be the general sense of all the truly godly and well-affected in this nation , that no quiet and peaceable christian be deprived of the chief content and comfort of this life , which certainly consists in a real & impartial , yet unoffensive liberty , to serve his god according to his conscience . many petitions i could here cite in affirmance of this truth , from severall provinces of this land ; but i shall trouble the reader only with these two , the first was presented to the parliament upon the six and twentieth of march . from the county of leicester , wherein , though i were none of the subscribers ; yet i did , both by my self and friends , promote it what i could , as conceiving the requests of it , both just and reasonable ; it bore this title , the humble petition of divers well affected of the county of leicester , in behalf of themselves and the nation , and the seventh . article or branch of the petition was this . . that every one may enjoy the just freedoms to worship god according to his word , without any coercive or restrictive courses to the contrary . the petition being read , the gentlemen that presented it were called in , and master speaker , by order of the house , gave them hearty thanks , &c. and on the of april following , a like petition was presented , entituled , the humble petition and representation of severall churches of god in london , commonly , though falsly , called anabaptists , which was also graciously accepted by the house , according to the merit of so conscientious a suit , and the justice of so glorious a parliament . at which time we happily began to shake off that intollerable burthen of isachar , the presbyterian government , which has bin since in a good measure effected , through the blessing of the lord christ , and pious care of his instruments , the governours of this common-wealth . in so much as no persons of what society or perswasion soever in this nation , are at present persecuted for their conscience onely ; or difference in outward worship , but the papist , whom i am therefore ( according to that principle of charity which absolutely commands my spirit , ) obliged to make the chief subject of this discourse . in order to which performance , i have since the writing my former sheets ) often waited upon god in humility of spirit , and endeavour to inform my self , as much as i could of the truth , and particular manner of their sufferings , and to that end have somtimes purposely attended at haberdashers hall , to hear their cases pleaded , where though i suffered some persecution from the croud and noise of that place , yet far more was the grief of my minde to behold so many distressed suiters , whose countenances were made sad by the fear of a fatall order for their impoverishment . but before i proceed to any of those particulars , i must ( at least in my own judgement ) clear the papists obstinacy and non submission to the present government , wherewith they were by some accus'd , as a sufficient ground of all their punishment ; from which imputation i shall easily deliver them by transcribing a copy of their petition , which they have with much diligence and humble importunity , addressed to very many members of parliament , professing to wait onely the happines of an opportunity to present it to the house , and being a paper at least or moneths old , and delivered to so many persons , with whom i have the honour to be acquainted , it fell by chance into my hands , having i confesse of late entertained a particular delight and recreation to passe some part of my time in such curiosities . to the supreme authority of this nation , the parliament of the common-wealth of england . the humble petition of the roman catholikes . sheweth , that your petitioners have long waited some happy leasure , when there might be a hearing allowed them of their many sad pressures , the weight whereof hath sunk them so ruinously low , that they are utterly disabled to discharge their many debts , make the least provision for their children , or relieve themselves , reduced to extreme necessities . that even such of your petitioners , as are sequestred for delinquency , have still comforted their sorrows with this hope , that at the last they should certainly be received to mercy ; since the generall votes for composition of the . of march . seem cleerly to imply them capable thereof , when the rules concerning them should be agreed upon . that now the wisdom of the parliament applying it self to establish the people of this common-wealth in a quiet and setled condition , your petitioners take up an humble confidence , that they alone shall not be excluded from so universall a benefit . and therefore humbly pray , that the laws and proceedings concerning them may be taken into consideration , and such clemency and compassion used towards them by composition or otherwise , as in the judgement of this honourable house may consist with the publike peace , and your petitioners comfortable lie ving in their native country . and they further humbly pray , that it would please the parliament to vouchsafe them the permission of clearing their religion from whatsoever may be inconsistent with government , which will assuredly be done to full satisfaction , if there may be a committee appointed by this honourable house , on whom they may have the priviledge to attend . and your petitioners shall ever pray , &c. this to my sense bears it self with so much respect and submissiveness in the stile , that it can no wayes be interpreted misbecoming the duty of good and peaceable subjects ; and for the matter of the petition , it seems to my eye so reasonable , that i cannot believe , but after a little patience , till other more generall affairs afford the parliament leisure , it will certainly receive a satisfactory and relieving answer ; especially since not onely such papists , whose moderate delinquency leaves them some hope of mercy , nor such who for preservation of their lives , were forced to flye into the late kings garrisons , without ever acting any thing against the state , but even the most innocent , who all this while have sate still under so many pressures , and never were charged with other accusation , than their religion , yet all freely and humbly submit in this petition to the absolute pleasure of the parliament for rules of composition , and this ( as to the single papist ) for an offence , which in no other society of christians in this nation is accounted any crime at all , being meerly their different judgement in religion ; a proceeding , wherein certainly we shall use too much severity , and partiality , if we make it not onely unpardonable , but unredeemable . in the close of their petition they humbly beg the favour of an opportunity to satisfy the parliament in the point of consistency with civil government , which being the chief objection that ( without passion ) can be made against them , surely we should not take offence , at their most diligent applications , and utmost endeavours , to deliver themselves from so destructive a charge , laid upon their religion . in order to which performance , ( it seems ) divers papists of considerable quality , unanimously agreed upon this following explanation , to declare and witnes to the world , the perfect consistency of their religion , both with civill society , joyning also in the same paper , the like expressions of their belief concerning some few other points , which they were informed to be more obnoxious to exception , than the rest ; as the under-valuing of holy scripture , and over-valuing the authority of the church : invocation of saints and angels , and worship of images ; and above all , the proud opinion of merits : this paper they drew up as a preparatory to a more full and perfect clearing of their faith from those prejudices and misunderstandings , which ordinarily men of different perswasions entertain , especially , in controversies about matters of religion . the paper , containing certain doctrins of the papists , and by them delivered to divers persons of quality for their particular satisfaction . we believe the holy scriptures to be of divine inspiration and infallible authority ; and whatsoever is therein contained we firmly assent unto , as to the word of god , the author of all truth . . but since in the holy scriptures there are some things hard to be understood , which the ignorant and unstable wrest to their own destruction ; we therefore professe ( for the ending of controversies in our religion , and setling of peace in our consciences ) to submit our private judgments to the judgement of the church , represented in a free generall council . . we humbly believe the sacred mysterie of the blessed trinity , one eternal , almighty , and incomprehensible god , whom onely we adore and worship , as alone having soveraign dominion over all things , to whom onely we acknowledge as due from men and angels , all glory , service and obedience , abhorring from our hearts , as a most detestabbe sacriledge , to give our creators honor to any creature whatsoever . and therefore we solemnly protest , that by the prayers we addresse to angels , and saints , we intend no other then humbly to sollicit their assistance before the throne of god , as we desire the prayers of one another here upon earth , not that we hope any thing from them , as originall authors thereof , but from god the fountain of all goodnesse , through jesus christ our onely mediator and redeemer . neither do we believe any divinity or vertue to be in images , for which they ought to be worshipped as the gentiles did their idols , but we retain them with due and decent respect in our churches , as instruments , which we find by experience , do often assist our memories , and excite our affections . . we firmly believe , that no force of nature , nor dignity of our best works can merit our justification , but we are justified freely by grace , through the redemption that is in jesus christ . and although we should by the grace of god persevere unto the end in a godly life and holy obedience to the commandements , yet are our hopes of eternall glory still built upon the mercy of god , and the merits of christ jesus . all other merits ( according to our sense of that word ) signifie no more , then actions done by the assistance of gods grace , to which it has pleased his gooodness to promise a reward ; a doctrine so far from being unsuitable to the sense of the holy scriptures , that it is their principal design to invite and provoke us to a diligent observance of the commandements , by promising heaven as the reward of our obedience . tim. . . godliness is profitable to all things , having the promise of this life , and of that which is to come , and , rom , . . god will render to every man according to his deeds , to them who by patient confidence in well doing seek for glory and honor , and immortality , eternal life . and again , rom. . . if you live after the flesh you shall dye , but if through the spirit you mortifie the deeds of the body , you shall live . and heb. . . god is not unjust to forget your work and labour of love , which you have shewed for his name , &c. nothing being so frequently repeated in the word of god , as his gracious promises to recompence with everlasting glory the faith and obedience of his servants ; nor is the bounty of god barely according to our works , but high and plentifull , even beyond our capacities ; giving full measure , heaped up , pressed down , and running over into the bosoms of all that love him . thus we believe the merit or reward ablenesse of holy living ( both which signifie the same thing with us ) arises not from the self-value even of our best actions ; as they are ours , but from the grace and bounty of god ; and for our selves we sincerely professe , when we have done all those things which are commanded us , we are unprofitable servants , having done nothing but that which was our duty ; so that our boasting is not in our selves , but all our glorying is in christ . . we firmly believe , and highly reverence the morall law , being so solemnly delivered to moses upon the mount , so expresly confirmed by our saviour in the gospel , and containing in it so perfect an abridgement of our whole duty both to god and man . which morall law we believe obliges all men to proceed with faithfulnesse and sincerity in their mutuall contracts one towards another , and therefore our constant profession is , that we are most strictly and absolutely bound to the exact and entire performance of our promises , made to any person of what religion soever , much more to the magistrates and civil powers , under whose protection we live whom we are taught by the word of god to obey , not onely for fear , but for consci●nce sake ; and to whom we will most faithfully observe our promises , of duty and obedience , notwithstanding any dispensation , absolution , or any other proceedings of any forraign power , or authority whatsoever . wherefore we utterly deny and renounce that false and scandalous position , that faith is not to be kept with hereticks , as most uncharitably imputed to our practices , and most unjustly pinned upon our religion . these we sincerely and solemnly professe , as in the sight of god , the searcher of all hearts , taking the words plainly and simply in their usuall and familiar sense , without any equivocation or mental reservation whatsoever . these expressions concerning four of the most offensive points , wherein the papists differ from us , have i confesse given me a great and unexpected satisfaction ; and though i remain in the same mind as to the erroniousnesse of many of their tenets , yet i see we may easily be too passionate in the degree of detesting any different opinion , since every error is not presently to be censured , as an unsufferable abomination ; and too severe in the degree of persecuting the dissenters from our own judgements , as if they were unworthy to breath the same air with our selves . certainly , many protestants , who quietly enjoy a just and unmolested freedome , approach very near to the first assertion of the papists , whilst some both writers and discoursers , professe to submit their private judgements unappealably to a truly-free generall councell , that she might once have an end of all strife and contention about matters of religion ; others refer themselves without further instance to a provinciall assembly of divines , and very few but will prefer the judgement of the supreme authority of this nation , before their own particular sense , readily conforming to that declaration which the parliament shall hold forth to be the true meaning of the scripture : so that almost every one agrees in the acknowledgement of an external authority to decide such controversies , as arise out of the different interpretation of their faith upon the churches sleeve , and yield a blind obedience ( that is without appealing any further ) to her determination . and for the second branch , i am sure many protestants continue still those old customes of baring their heads when they come into a church , nay of bowing at the name of jesus ; practices that ly open to the greatest part of those objections , which our more godly and conscientious penns make against the papists , in the question of pictures ; yet i hope there will never be the least thought entertained of imposing penalties upon the private and unscandalous use of any such ceremonies : rather let us apply our endeavours to open their eys with a mild and gentle hand , than beat them out with the club-fist of the law . but when i reflect upon the third conclusion in the recusants paper , i am , astonished to consider how education with a little mixture of passion or interest makes every slight distemper amongst christians ( which of it self were easily curable ) so desperate , that it often becomes irrecoverable , and endangers both the health and life of christianity . surely in many things we strangely mistake one another . i professe sincerely , i should be so far from seising on the estate of a papist , for refusing that part of the oath of abjuration , wherein he is compelled to renounce the doctrine of merits , that i am resolved to suffer a thousand deaths , rather then abjure so great and manifest a truth , according to the sense wherein they explain themselves , or affirm so great and manifest an errour , according to the sense wherein we explain our selves . for when we censure the doctrine of merits , we understand by that word our deserts , as they exclude the merits of christ , and abstracting from the covenant god hath been pleased to make with us in his son , and in that sense we justly condemne all opinions of merit , even of the best works , as presumptuous and luciferian ; but i now see when the papists affirm that good works are meritorious , they include both the promise of god and the merits of christ jesus , and in effect when all is summed up , it amounts only to this , that god hath graciously promised , and will faithfully keep his word , to reward all those with eternall life that believe in him , and obey his commandements , in this sense the papists hold mercifulnes to be meritorious , or available to salvation , because the scripture sayes , blessed are the mercifull for they shall obtain mercy . matth. . . in this sense the papists hold patience in affliction to be meritorious or available to salvation , because the scripture sayes , blessed are they who are persecuted for righteousnesse sake , for theirs is the kingdome of heaven , mat. . . and this ( as i am informed by very understanding men amongst them ) is the reall truth of their doctrine concerning good works , which in my judgement differs nothing from ours , but onely in the unsavoury and proud-sounding word merit . the last cause of the papists note , which i have transcribed , is so full and satisfactory , that if they will be as good as their words , i shall neither fear to have such neighbours , nor need any magistrate fear to have such subjects . and to prove their trustinesse and fidelity , in the observance of their oaths , i cannot imagin a more evident demonstration , then that they make a conscience of what oaths they take . he that swears any thing without distinction , may justly be suspected to be as false to men , as he is fearlesse of god , whereas no clearer argument can be alledged in the behalf of any , that they intend to keep all the oaths they take , then this , that they will not take all the oaths you offer ; surely if the pope or their own consciences could give them this extravagant priviledge , to be bound by no oath , they might without difficulty take any , and if they were allowed by their religion to swear any thing , certainly they are all worse then mad , if they do not immediately post away to haberdashers hall , call for the oath of abjuration , swallow it down quickly without any chewing , and so save at least l a year in a morning . in the late kings dayes , many papists were smartly punished for not taking the oath of allegeance , none for observing it , nay i have heard some papist-delinquents argue for themselves , that the utter ruine , which now endangers their whole estates , proceeds solely from their performing to the late king that service which he called alleagiance , and this is yet a higher proof of their fidelity in their promises , since they adventured with so much hazard to keep that oath in subgance , which they refused with almost as much hazard to take , because against their conscience in some circumstance . and now let any one judge indifferently , whether they that firmly believe all the holy scriptures of the old and new testament , worship and adore onely one god , rely upon jesus christ for their sole mediator , and professe it their duty to observe the commandements of the morall law , may not reasonably be suffered to live in their native countrey with the peaceable enjoyment of their consciences in their private houses , especially those who will quietly submit to cautions and restrictions , as the common-wealth shall require for prevention of scandall , or disturbance of the publick peace . besides i am perswaded a far lesse liberty will oblige the papists than content any other , because hitherto all liberty has been wholly denyed to them , and wholly allowed to every one else , so that they will gladly receive as a mercy and favour , what others challenge as a right , and their affections being once purchased at so cheap a price , as a little private exercise of their conscience , free from the fright and smart of penalties , i am confident they will neither be such fools as to forfeit their liberty , nor so ungratefull as to forget them that gave it ; since out of all our histories not one example can be assigned , that they ever offered to move the least sedition , in a time when they enjoyed but half the liberties of free-born english men . therefore i shall close my thoughts upon this paper , with a short and free conclusion , which i conceive abridges in few words the whole difficulty betwixt subject and superior ; the magistrate that protects any sort of people in his dominions , may justly require their service , and safely rely upon their obedience but if he persecute them , whether protestants or papists , he will soon find , that as he may violently force their complyance , he can never prudently rest upon their affections . but i must here beg leave to be dispensed with in my promise of ending this period , till i have added this observation , how many modern authors of good account amongst us , have positively held forth to the people ( as an unquestionable truth ) that the papists by their principles , are not obliged to keep faith with hereticks ? and i must acknowledge i was once of the same opinion concerning them , principally relying upon the credit of mr. iames howell , an ingenious traveller in most of the popish countries , which makes me the more wonder , that he should take such an erroneous opinion upon trust , and assert it in print near the end of the first part of dodona's grove , where he sayes , that one of the canons of the last great councell , ( which must needs be the councel of trent ) was that , haereticis non est tenenda fides , the esteem i had entertain'd of that authors ingenuity permitted me not to acquiesse to some recusants verball deniall of this , assertion ; but ( for more assured satisfaction in so important a point ) i took the pains to peruse some of their best writers , and found them unamimously agree , that faith is not onely to be kept with hereticks , but even with turks , iews and infidels , and that indispensably : neither could i find one tittle to that purpose , in any canon or session of that last great councel , ( as he calls it ) but to the contrary ; for both in the fifteenth and eighteenth session , the councell saith expresly , that whosoever shall violate the least point of the publick faith , given for the security of all protestants , that should repair to that councell , should be subject to those penalties , quas jure divino & humano aut consuetudine hujusmodi salvorum conductuum violatores incurrere possunt , absque omni excusatione , aut quavis in hac parte contradictione . by which it evidently appears that the councell supposed , as a thing known and certain , that whosoever should violate his faith promised to hereticks , was not onely punishable by humane laws , but even by the divine law it self . and certainly if it had been my unhappinesse to have done any sort of christians so much wrong in publick , my conscience ( coming afterward to be better inform'd would oblige me to a publick reparation ; for though we use no such confession , as the papists practise , yet the law of naturall reason binds us to as punctuall an observance of restitution , as any papist whatsoever , and that even to papists themselves , when we do them any injury . but for a finall dispatch of this point concerning the papists indispensable obligation of performing their promises , it was my fortune to light upon a book of one paul layman a german jesuit , and an author of great esteem amongst the casuists ( who treating of dispensations lib. . tract. . cap. . ) sets down these words , dico quartò , si catholici cum haereticis publicum faedus ineant , non potest per authoritatem pontificiam s●lvi aut relaxari . if catholicks enter into any publick contract with hereticks , it cannot be dissolv'd or dispensed with by the popes power . and some few lines after proceeding upon the same question , he pronounces down-right , absolutè negari debet id ( viz remissionem foederis ) à summo pontifice fieri posse ; it ought absolutely to be denyed , that it is in the power of the pope to absolve from such contracts . and again , fides publica haereticis data inviolabiliter & sine ullo dispensationis remedio servanda est , quamdiu ipsi servare parati sunt : publick saith given to hereticks ought inviolably and without dispensation to be observed , so long as they are ready to perform their part . and concludes that even iesuites as well as other doctors hold the popes power to be limitable , and not so almighty as the world usually believes concerning them . the same doctrine is repeated in the abridgement of laymans book entituled compendium moralis theologiae pauli layman folio . the papists have given so much satisfaction by their petition and other papers , but much more by their submission to , and peaceable demeanour in this common-wealth , as it is now establisht ; i must appeal not onely to the parliament , and that great instrument of our freedome my lord generall cromwell , but to all conscientious men , whether these papists may not reasonably hope so much mercy , as not to be by penalties debard the private exercise of their consciences , with their doors shut , and such other cautions and circumstances as the state shall be pleased to ordain for regulation of soul freedome ; since it is evident that christian liberty may be lawfully governed , though it be also as evident that it cannot lawfully be taken away , so that every peaceable spirit have liberty enough , and yet the licentious liver not have too much . such moderate & orderly freedom might charitably be allowed to the quiet papists from persons that afford far more advantages to far more dangerous enemies the scotch or rigid kirkists , who have severall times engaged against us in open field , & by many plots and secret contrivements endeavoured as much as in them lay ) to subvert the present government , yet after so many victories obtained against them , & the reducing of the greatest part of their country to the obedience of this state ; the ministers ( as sayes a letter of the of febr. . from an officer of our army at edinborough ) are violenly bent their own way , and preach damnation to all complyers with us in any thing . and let any indifferent person read the strange proceedings of the presbytery of aberdeen against sir alexander irving , lord of drum published in the diurnall ian. . he will ( i am confident ) highly applaud that ingenious letter from an eminent officer of our army , and dated at edenborough the of the same moneth , and published in the next weeks politicus , which hath these very words . you would wonder to observe the strange pride and proceedings of the kirk clergy , the ingredi●nts of whose constitution admit of many more grains of gun-powder , then you shall find in any iesuites in christendome ; so that if they be not closely look'd unto they will set all on fire again . and in another letter dated th of april . from dalkeith in scotland and printed in the next weeks diurnall , is this excellent observation ; believe it , all our other enemies are tame beasts to the high presbyter , and yet with the winding and turning of a religious pretence , and an artificiall zeal against heresie ; he will like a tame snake ( if not warily avoided ) get into your bosom , &c. continually every week come fresh and loud complaints from our friends and officers in scotland of the stubbornesse of a certain froward and resty party in that nation . yet notwithstanding the pertinacy and malice of these kirkists , such of them as have not appeared in actuall arms against us , are so far from being sequestred , that many of them enjoy great places of honour and benefit under our government . and such is the states mercy towards them ) that the commissioners for setling the affairs of scotland by their declaration of the feb , , grounded upon the declaration of the parliament of the common-wealth of england , have exprest a particular regard and indulgence to the whole nation , in these words , that such ministers whose consciences oblige them to wait upon god in the administration of spirituall ordinances , according to the order of the scottish churches , with any that shall voluntarily joyn in the practice thereof , shall receive protection and encouragement from all in authority , in their peaceable and unoffensive exercise of the same : as also others , who not being satisfied in conscience to use that form , shall serve and worship god in other gospel way , and behave themselves peaceably and unoffensively therein . and we do lastly declare , that all merchants , tradesmen , and handicrafts men , not having in lands or goods above the value of l. sterling , and all other persons not having in lands and goods above the clear value of l. sterling ( not being prisoners of war or souldiers of fortune in commission ) who shall in pursuance of the said declaration live peaceably , and yield obedience to the parliament of the common-wealth of england exercised in scotland , shall not onely be freed and discharged from all forfeitures and confiscations of their estates for any thing formerly done by them in reference to the wars , but he received into the protection of the parliament , and enjoy such liberties and immunities , as also such leases and grants of confiscated and forfeited lands , as upon consideration of their respective qualities and deserts shall be thought fit , &c. in the first branch of this declaration such a conscience security is held forth as ( according to my soul ) ought not by the lawes of christ be denyed to any peaceable christian , and i extremely rejoyce in the spirit of our governors for so noble and charitable a proceeding , yet i plainly see , that they to whom this favour is allowed , are both different from us in the principles of their religion and opposite to us in their nationall affection ; whereas a far lesser mercy is denied to our own kindred and allies , to our own conntrey men born to the sam freedome with our selves , who have in a much lesse measure offended in matters of hostility , nay divers of them not at all , who yet would be content and thankfull for a small part of that favour which the parliament so bountifully bestowes upon strangers . by the second branch very many of that nation , who have been in actuall arms against us , and perhaps wounded or flain our friends in open battells , will receive an immunity ( for l. sterling is a great estate in scotland ; ) whereas many of our own countrey , who never lifted up hand against us , have two parts of their estates with rigor sequestred , and that without so charitable a distinction , as to free the poorer sort , whose estates are of lesse value then l. for our mercilesse sequestrators have tripartited even the day labourers goods and very house-holdstuff , and taken away two cowes , where the whole stock was but three . passages observed upon cases depending at haberdashers hall . i must confesse , i had not so much time to spare , as i could have wish'd , yet for some weeks i attended at haberdashers hall for better satisfaction : but to make a full discovery of all the proceedings there , is beyond the level of my discourse : i will only promise in what i say , not to exceed the bounds of truth and modesty . the present commissioners , who are seven in number , for ought i could discern are civil persons , and most of them apprehensive of others sufferings , but seem to say in many hard cases , that either their instructions or commission binds them up from being able to give relief , or the obligation to the oath they take will not permit them . to shew the tendernesse and compassion , which otherwise ( i am perswaded ) their consciences would carry them forth to practise , since most of the suitors that come before them appear so miserably ruined , that the very distressednes of their condition is motive enough to incite the mercy of their judges , especially , their crime being only the refusall of an oath , which they solemnly professe is against their consciences , and i am sure is against our laws ; and truly as often as i reflect upon the strange severity of that oath , my soul goes forth in pitty towards them that are concern'd in it ; since even their thoughts are not free , but an absolute force laid upon the most inward cogitations of their hearts , and themselves compelled to condemn themselves by accusations wrested out of their own mouthes . upon the ceasing of the former committees authority , these . ( which now sit judges of delinquency and sequestrations ) were impowered about . jan. , since which time they & their subcommissioners in the several counties have made many discoveries both of delinquents and papists estates , either not before sequestred , or not compounded for at the full value , but i observed that they who were sequestred or had their rents or goods unduly taken from them , in the time of the former committees for sequestrations , how unjustly soever , could not be relieved by these commissioners , nor any other power , but by the parliament it self . it was the case of mr. robert knightley a recusant only , a great part of whose mansion house in essex was puld down to repair the fort at tilbury , for which he petitioned at haberdash●rs hall in decemb. , to have satisfaction out of the sequestred parts of his own lands there . but in regard it appeared to be done before ian. , the present commissioners answer was , they had no power to relieve him . and in all other cases upon appeals , where it appears , that rents have been unduly received to the states use for or years last past , in wrong to the true owner of the lands ; these commissioners in such case make restitution onely from jan. ; and for money , goods , or personall estate unduely seized or sequestred before that time , they make no restitution at all . this seemed strange to me ; for by the same rule , if the present commissioners should sequester half the lands and goods in england right or wrong , and then be displaced and new commissioners established , who have no power to review and consider the acts of their predecessors , in time we may all come to be sequestred , and yet be without appeal , except to the parliament , who have too many publique obligations to spend their thoughts in particular businesses . on the th of feb. , there was heard the case of one mr. parker , the lord morleys only son , about years of age , he petitioned for maintenance out of his fathers sequestred estate , but because it was suspected the childe might encline to his fathers religion , who is a papist , it was denyed him , unlesse he might be taken both from father and mother , and committed to the government of a meer stranger , which was ordered accordingly , and the poor pittance of l. per ann. only allowed him , out of his own and fathers estate . in feb. . mr. james hanham of the west petitions the commissioners at haberdashers hall to this effect , that he had never acted any thing against the parliament yet two parts of his estate were sequestered with such rigor for his recusancy , that he could not possibly subsist with necessaries by the remaining thirds , when taxes and other charges were deducted : that he was therefore constrained to borrow l. upon bond , and having disbursed l. of the money , it seems the sequestrators got notice that the petitioner had somewhat in his house worth a new sequestration or review , as they call it , thereupon they search his trunks , finding the remaining l. pull out the guilty bag , and two parts of it they sequester into their own pockets , to the use of the common-wealth , and for relief therein mr. hanham appealed , but found no redress at present , more then order for the sub-commissioners in the countrey to examine the businesse and certifie , &c. at the return of whose certificate , i leave the petitioner to expect his doom . on the of march , . the petition of one hamond or ammot was read , to this effect , that the petitioner did never bear arms nor assist the enemies of the parliament , yet his estate had lyen under sequestration ever since the year . and not one penny allowed him for his maintenance . that the petitioner , being a recusant , did in the time of the late war continue at his own house , as long as he could without apparent danger of his life , but considering how obnoxious even the most peaceable of his religion were to be affronted and ruined , by the daily mischiefs they received from some disorderly souldiers , and especially seeing one of his neighbours ( a recusant ) slain at his own door , the petitioner did then and not before , fly for protection to a garison of the late kings , without acting any thing in the least kind against the parliament . and therefore humbly prayed he might have a fifth of his estate and the arrears allowed him to buy bread . but it not appearing to the commissioners that he had wife or children , their answer was , they had not power to grant him any relief . nor do i believe this mans case to be singular ; for i am well satisfied , that a great part of those papists , who are sequestred as absolute delinquents , were never in actuall arms against the parliament , but onely fled to the enemies garisons for shelter , yet no qualification or difference in punishment is hitherto allowed them , which would be to my understanding very just and reasonable ; since who ever did observe the fury and rage of most of our common souldiers ( at the beginning of the late troubles ) against many of that party , will easily conclude the papists had reason to distrust their own personall security amongst them . and for instance i remember an officer of my acquaintance under the earl of manchester told me , that at their taking of lincola from the cavaliers , in the year . he was an eye witnesse of this tragedy . the next day after the town was taken , some of our common souldiers in cold blood ( meeting with mr. price of washingley in huntington shire a papist ) asked him , art thou price the papist ? i am ( said he ) price the roman catholick , whereupon one of them immediately shot him dead . in the same moneth of march there happened at this hall a very hard case , which was of a maid servant ( whose name i do not remember ) but her petition was to this effect . that her father and mother both died when she was but sixteen years of age , and being very poor , they left the petitioner only some old clothes and a little houshold-stuff , in all not worth above five or six pounds , after whose death the petitioner , being an orphan betook her self to service , and having served seventeen years for the annuall wages of seven nobles , the petitioner had by her frugality increased her small patrimony to twenty pounds , which being placed in the hands of a. b , and of late discovered to be the petitioners money , and the petitioner a recusant , she pray'd that they would take the sad and disconsolate condition of a poor orphan into their charitable consideration , whereby the extremity of the law might be qualified to so mercifull a temper that she might not be utterly ruined , by losing in a moment for her conscience , what she had been so long in gathering by the sweat of her brows . but the commissioners ( though perhaps otherwise willing ) concluded they had not power to give her any relief more then the bare thirds , unlesse she would take the oath of abjuration , a thing as far at least above her understanding , as it can be against her conscience . if it be unreasonable , ( as many well affected seem to urge ) that the ministers who do or at least should perform some spirituall office for the good of the soul ) should tithe a tenth part of the husbandmans labour : how much more unreasonable is it , that a poor silly maid servant should thus meerly upon the account of conscience , be sequestered of two thirds of that , which by many years labour , she had gained and reserved as a support against the necessities of old age . on the of april . the case of mistris church of essex , a recusant , was heard , whose petition spake to this effect , that her late husband in his life time setled a lease of muck-hall ( or such like name ) in essex of considerable value upon her in lieu of joincture , for divers years yet in being , and was held of the late dean and chapter of pauls that alderman andrews or mr. nathaniel his son , had bought the reversion of those lands at gurney house , and since taken a lease for seven years of the commissioners for sequestration in essex of the whole present possession , without the petitioners consent or knowledge , and without any regard to her thirds ; and that the said mr. andrews having now possession of the whole estate , had demolished the petitioners mansion house , and did refuse to pay the petitioner her thirds , whereby she was driven to a necessity of wanting bread , being a distressed and friendlesse widow of almost years of age , she therefore prayd her thirds , and the arrears , and that the said lease might be annulled , &c. the first was charitably granted , but as to the lease and what her thirds should be , she was left to the mercy of mr. andrews , who i fear does forget what the father of mercies sayes in jeremy . . execute judgement and righteousnesse , and deliver the spoiled out of the hands of the oppressor , and do no wrong , doe no violence to the stranger , and fatherlesse , and widow , &c , and in matth. . . wo unto you scribes , and pharisees , hypocrites , for ye devour widows houses , and for a pretence make long prayer ; therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation . that which in this case did most exact my observation , was , that mr. andrews ( a person of quality ) should make use of his power against a poor widow , and should be present , and openly avow the taking of her estate over her head ; with so little regard to the thirds , which is allowed her by the act of parliament , and so much to his own benefit , without which , 't is like he would not have taken it , and with which the petitioner must needs suffer . from haberdashers hall give me leave to make a step into moorefields where on the of may being the lords day , rich. ledsam and one led bealer , two pursivants apprehended robert segar , a poor old decrepit man , upon a supition , ( and 't was but a suspition ) that he had been at the spanish embassadors at masse , upon this bare surmise the poor man was searched , and in his pockets they found an old prayer book , whereupon he was carried before a justice of peace , and committed to the gatehouse at westminster , where he lay in the common goale till the quarter sessions in jan. . being full moneths , without any charge or proceedings against him , and that sessions was acquitted by proclamation , through the mercy of justice scobell , but he is still detained prisoner , ( this being now april , ) by mr. weeks the keeper of the prison , for the rent of his lodging , for which the keeper demands pence a week beside fees , and yet ( as i am credibly inform'd ) the old man lay on the boords in the common goale , and had no other pillow for his head , but a hard stone , for which he must now pay more then he is worth , or continne in prison , being years of age . and now i am at the gatehouse i shall give you the supplement of a like sad story mentioned in the page of the first part of this moderator , concerning a great bellied gentle-woman , committed to prison on the th of june . her name upon enquiry i find was delavall , an englishwoman , but her husband a frenchman ; she was committed also to the gatehouse , and with much importunity got leave by petition to go out upon bail till she was brought to bed , but was an actuall prisoner full moneths of the ; which is prescribed by the statute , and a fine of marks stood charg'd upon her , till she was relieved by the late gracious act of generall pardon and oblivion , ( an act that no lesse obliges all the people of this nation to forget their private injuries , then to remember the publick mercy of the parliament ) and all this poor womans sufferings meerly grounded upon a bare supposition , that she had been at the then french agents in long acre at mass , without so much as one witnesse , that there was any masse said there at all , it being the truth of the case ( if i may believe their most serious protestations ) that they were onely at their other private devotions . but to return to haberdashers hall . i perceived in my observations there , that besides the cases before recited , it was a familiar thing to see papists i mean single papists , without the adjunct of delinquency ) outed of the possession of the two sequestered thirds of their estates , by any stranger , that would offer in the box but pence more then the owner ; which hath made divers owners strain themselves to give more rent to the state , than they could possibly make of the two parts , rather than be outed of the possession of their ancient patrimonies , and some of them have assured me , that it happens very often , that neighbours either thorow covetousnesse or revenge ( for who can live so innocently as to procure no enemy , at least so happily as to have none , ) set themselves to outvy the owners , and then recompence the losse they have in the great rent they pay , by misusing the lands they hire in despite of the owner . besides many times when the proprietors have with much charge and long attendance obtained leases of the two parts for seven years in the countrey in pursuance of the act of parliament , after improvement of their estates by good husbandry , they are again outted , and their leases made void at this hall , under pretence of the want of some formality of surveyng , posting , boxing or the like , which it seems the instructions from these commissioners do hold forth to those below , yet those instructions are not made publick , whereby the parties interessed might be advised how to proceed regularly and certainly in a businesse that so much concerns their subsistence . nor are the recusants permitted to sell any of their lands by fining for the two parts , though for payment of their just debts , nay though they should be willing to transport themselves beyond the seas ; by which disablement to sell or morgage the least pile of grasse they possesse , many well affected suffer much prejudice , by non-payment of their true and ancient debts , but divers of the papists are thereby driven to such extreme necessities , that they have expos'd their bare thirds to sale ; though i perceive few purchasers will meddle therewith , unlesse upon very disadvantagious terms to the seller , because the purchasers say , they are sure to contract a charge and trouble to themselves by their attendance at this hall : for in such case , if the papist can gain the favour to have his thirds partitioned from the other two ; yet ( as i heard it argued ) the state might , when he had sold such divided part , or by good husbandry improved it , evict it from him , and assign him another thirds of the same lands , that perhaps has been wasted by ill tenants ; for i found this much complained of among the petitioners , that the sequestrators or such strangers to whom the two parts are often demised , rarely or never bestow any money on repair of the two thirds , but take the rents as long as the house or land will yield any ; which is one reason why such customers many times out-bids the owners for the renting of those two thirds ; the owners being alwayes carefull to keep up the houses , and direct their husbandry to the best advantage , and embetterment of the lands . others i observed to complain much of the long attendance , and great charge they were at in gaining their thirds , and an allowance of their mansion houses , and of the many and malicious false accusations , that informers were permitted to bring in against them : as ( if i mistake not ) i over-heard some of the solicitors say , that the lady saint johns , or her husband mr. arundell , had been accused for delinquency five or six severall times , and still cleared it . witnesses have been often suborned to false accusations , and yet when the party injured ( after long attendance and expence ) has cleared himself of the calumny and consequently proved the malice of the informer , no reparation would be allowed for so dangerous a slander ; insomuch that upon the whole matter i have heard a recusant ( with tears in his eyes ) professe seriously , that so much attendance and charge was required in getting their thirds , and such continuall fears and vexations attended their condition , that if he could by manufacture or any other honest calling get a livelyhood , he should easily resolve to let his third part go after the other two . the commissioners themselves ( sitting in a treble capacity , first for compounding with delinquents , secondly for advance of money upon the fifth and twentieth parts , and thirdly for sequestrations ) can onely spare wednesday mornings , for hearing petitions upon sequestrations , and commonly there is not a committee which must be at least four of the seven commissioners ) till after ten of the clock , by which means they can scarce afford two hours in a week for the dispatch of that employment . so that whensoever a suitor delivers in his petition , it is usually a full moneth , if not six weeks before it comes to be heard in course , and a great part of this time he must attend , and perhaps retain councel severall dayes before his businesse will be heard . these complaints , ( for ought i could possibly be informed ) are not onely true but far short of what this sort of people suffers ; which so much the more afflicts my soul , by how much i consider the sufferers to be christians and natives of england , and the entire cause of all their sufferings to be onely their unsatisfaction in certain points of religion ; a thing that is altogether out of their own power , and absolutely depends upon the good pleasure of gods holy spirit . i omit to speak of the sub-commissioners for sequestrations in the severall counties of this common-wealth , as having hitherto had little means to inform my self of their severall proceedings , and considering them obliged to pursue the instructions they receive from those above ; onely this i can say of some of them , whom i have conversed with , that they seem to grant , that sequestration of papists estates , upon the sole account of religion , is not in their opinion warranted by gods word , but rather the contrary ; and yet these men continue their employments , which i fear will expose them to the censure of worldly-minded and avaritious selfe-seekers : and i pray god that whilst they charge others with idolatry , they be not found guilty of it themselves , since the scripture sayes expresly , that a covetous man is an idolater . but it being apparent that the oath of abjuration is the wrack which torments so many consciences , i did therefore in the former part of this discourse propound some quaeries upon that oath , and shall now humbly add , ( as not improper for this subject ) what the before mentioned sir alexander irving lately said , in answer to master john rue , moderatour of the presbytery of aberdeen , concerning constraint of conscience , and enforcing oaths : his very words are these . i doe acknowledge that which you say concerning oaths , that god is honoured by them ; yet that must receive some limitations , or else it would prove very false , they must be taken in judgment , in truth , and upon necessity : now i appeal to your own consciences , whether ye have observed these conditions in your urging so many dreadfull oathes upon this miserable nation these years by-past , not onely in the covenant , but in your solemn league with your presbyterian brethren of england , whereby ye enforced all men to swear to establish by armes , that tyranny there , as ye had done here : how many have ye enforced ( by threatning and execution of your kirk censure , and the severity of the civill law , following upon them , depriving men of their estates ) to swear and subscribe to all ye injoyned or could invent , albeit ye know them to be of far contrary judgments , wherein ye did imitate that feigned and false mother , who before solomon was contented to have the child divided , whereby her hypocrisie was found out by that brave prince : by which means ye have made this nation guilty of perjury , besides many other heinous sinnes : i wish to god you had remembred , or would yet remember , how much you cryed out against the tyranny of bishops , ( when they were urging some of your number , who were refractory to episcopacy ) that there should be had some regard to tender consciences , which were of another judgment , but so soon as ye had got the power into your hands , neither minister nor laird , man , woman , or child , was spared , nor any regard had unto them , whatsoever quality or condition they were of , all were forced not onely to obey you , but ( which is the greatest tyranny over mens consciences ) they were made to swear , that they thought , as ye would have them , albeit to your own knowledge many thought the contrary , &c. the whole answer , which bears dare , jan. . is worth the reading , and is printed in the diurnall , numb. . i pray christ a great part of the same arguments may not be turned against us , for enforcing this oath of abjuration so positively against mens consciences . and since we all say , that we abhor to violence and force any ones conscience farther then to secure the publick peace , and that only as necessity shall really appear , and not upon any voluntary or counterfeit pretence , i cannot see how the taking of this oath avails to make a man , either a better neighbour , or a better subject . i cannot see that the parliament confides any more in those whom they have frighted to take it , nor any places of trust committed to them in reward of their conformity , and indeed there is lesse reason , in my opinion to rely upon such as are involuntarily drawn to an outward complyance , then even those that stand out their sequestrations , as being more exasperated against us by our severe proceedings , since there can be no greater cause of resentment and hatred then the remembrance to have been compelled by us publiquely to swear against their consciences , unlesse their judgements be really changed , and then all penalties to enforce them are superfluous , which leads me the direct way to this clear conclusion that such oathes are alwayes either absolutely pernicious or altogether unnecessary , if against the inward judgement , damnable ; if according to it , uselesse . since then the receiving such an oath against the conscience is the highest degree of perjury and spirituall murther of the soul , let us sadly consider , how disadvantagious to the work of the lord , and scandalous to the eyes of men it wil be , for us to fill up our congregations with such unsanctified members : the ingenious author of mer. poli●i●us , ( numb. . page . ) hath an admirable discourse upon this subject . if we seriously reflect ( sayes he ) upon the designe of god , in bringing christ into the world , we shall find it was to set an end to that pompous administration of the jewish form , that as his church and people were formerly confined within the narrow pale of a particular nation , so now the pale should be broken down , and all nations taken into the church . not all nations in a lump : nor any whole nations , or nationall bodies to be formed into churches : for his church or people now under the gospel , are not to be a body politicall , but spirituall and mysticall : not a promiscuous confusion of persons taken in at adventure , but an orderly collection , a picking and choosing of such as are called and sanctified , &c. not a company of men forced in by commands and constitutions of worldly power and prudence , but of such as are brought in by the power and efficacy of christs word and spirit . for he himself hath said , my kingdome is not from hence ; my kingdome is not of this world , &c. and therefore that hand which hath hitherto presumed in most nations , to erect a power called eccclesiastick , in equipage to the civill , to bear sway , and bind mens consciences to certain notions ordained for orthodox upon civill penalties , under colour of prudence , good order , discipline preventing of heresie , and advancing of christs kingdome ; and to this end hath twisted the spirituall power ( as they call it ) with the worldly and secular interest of state ; this ( i say ) hath been the very right hand of antichrist , opposing christ in his way , whose kingdome , being not of this world , depends not upon the helps and devises of worldly wisdom . thus that excellent pen . and a quick-sighted & judicious member of parliament , in my hearing , being made acquainted ( as with a supposed gratefull news ) that some indifferent christians , ( who professe amongst their old acquaintance no reall satisfaction of conscience , but onely a designe to save their estates ) had taken the oath of abjuration and conformed , said ; truly our purchase therein is very little , and the papists losse , much lesse . in confirmation of this assertion , i may here cite the case of mr. anthony roan , who was executed at vsk in monmouth sheire on the th of april , for poisoning his wife ; this gent the very hour be●ore his execution , made a publique confession to this purpose ; that he had been bred a roman catholick from his infancy , and continued in that religion till some two or three years before his death , when , being overcome by an unhappy necessity of preserving his family from beggery , he forsook the belief of his own soul , and went to church to save his estate ; after which , ( the devil taking advantage upon him in this disturbance and anxiety of spirit ) he confessed that he had faln into many great sins , but denyed the guilt of that horrid crime of poisoning his wife , for which he was condemned to die ; delivering further with a kind of confidence , that if he had had the grace to have continued constant in his religion , he believed he had never so highly transgressed the commandments of his god , nor come to so unhappy an end . and openly declared ( with much seeming repentance ) that he dyed in his old religion . certainly this is a sad consequence of wresting the inward perswasion of poor souls from that belief , which their own conscience tells them is truth , thereby making them lesse carefull of their salvation , and their honesty and credit of lesse repute , even with those , who force them to this change , for the heart of man is so frail and deceitful , that it seldom is drawn by violence from those principles , which it has long been used to esteem and practise , but becomes slack and negligent in what concerns the other world , and by degrees very often wholly insensible of any thing , but sensuality . upon the news not long since , of some papists taking the oath of abjuration , and frequenting the publique places of meeting , i conceived my self sufficiently furnisht to answer a certain old saying , which a recusant of my acquaintance used often to repeat in my hearing , that sanguis martyrum est semen ecclesiae : this upon all occasions he applyed the sufferings of papists , both here in england , and ten thousand miles off in japan , in which two islands have of late been sharper persecutions , ( said he ) for matter of religion , then in any other place of the world ; this he continually insisted upon , as a soveraign remedy for all his sorrows , nor could we ever beat him from his last hold , wherein he fortified himself , sanguis martyrum , &c. nay more , he sometimes ventured to affirm with strange assurance , this assertion , that this church encreased and prospered still , even whilst it was actually under the greatest pressures , that his church was , as the palme tree , the heavier weights are laid on , the more it flourisheth . i having gotten this advantage by the late coming in of some papists to our religion , went presently on purpose to my recusant to put him to the question , and as it were a little triumphing , demanded what he thought now of his old latine proverb ( in which he had formerly seemed to place so much confidence ) and whither the palm tree did not sometimes break a twigg by laying on so many weights ; to which he replyed with a little suddennesse and choller , that some dead , or canker-eaten branches , as they can bear no weight , so they can bear no fruit , even whilst united to the stock and much lesse after their division : but soon recovering himself to his usuall temper , he calmly , yet earnestly undertook , that as there have been at least twenty priests put to death in england since the beginning of this parliament , meerly upon the account of their religion or function , so he could name a farre greater number of persons of quality , who have in this same space of time reconciled themselves to the catholique union . when i urged him to the proof of this assertion , he immediately delivered me a list of twenty priests , who during these late revolutions had been hang'd , drawn and quartered either for taking orders beyond seas , or exercising them on this side the seas , and with all promised ( upon the allowance of a little time for recollection ) to furnish me with a roll of some names , who have lately declared themselves catholiques , undertaking , if he was deceived in any name , to recompence such errour , with the interest of two for one , unlesse he might be dispensed with upon the inconveniency of discovering those , who can no longer live unruined for their religion , then they are unknown to professe it . the preists executed in severall places since the year . were these ; mr. william ward . mr. raynolds . mr. roe . mr. edward morgan . mr. bullaker . mr. holland . mr. heath . mr. francis bell. mr. ducket . mr. corbet . mr. morse . mr. phillip powell . mr. peter wright . executed at tyburne . mr. lockwood . mr. caterick . executed at york . mr. green , executed at dorchester . mr. barlow . mr. reading . mr. whitaker . mr. thompson executed at lancaster . besides , master tho. vaughan ( after very hard usage aboard capt. moltons ship ) soon after dyed at cardiffe in south-wales . mr. john goodman . mr. henry myners . mr. peter wilsford . mr. john hamond . mr. colman . mr. rivers , &c. dyed prisoners in the common-goale at newgate since the year . besides divers who are now continued in prison . now i humbly thank the lord christ , there was onely one of these priests whom i mentioned in the first part of this discourse put to death , since this nation was established in the present government , and i wish from my soul , that his life had also been spared ; since my obligations to this common-wealth and the present governors thereof are such , that i am bound every day to offer up my sighs and prayers to the lord , that no bloud of any peaceable christian be spilt for the only difference of judgement in religion : for certainly whosoever shall practice such cruelty , will be called to a strict and rigorous account at the judgment of the great day . but proceeding to require of my recusant the performance of his word con - certain the late converts he so much gloried in , i merrily threatned him , that if he observed not his promise , i would presently not only suspect some secret evasion in him , but cry out against all papists as juglers and equivocaters , or else , i being an heretique , no faith was to be kept with me , and though the present matter be of a trivial consequence , yet we know the welshman stole rushes to keep his hand in ure . he first seriously redeemed his word by delivering me this following catalogue , and then merrily answered by jesting , with wonder at my hardinesse , how i durst stay in london , since the last letters from amsterdam discover so dangerous a plot intended by the papists and cavaliers against this town , they have these many months held a secret intelligence with all engineers and mill-makers of holland , and hired them forthwith to prepare a thousand such engins as we use to quench scare-fires , and these van trump ( who has been a long time popishly affected , and a rank cavalier ever since he was knighted ) undertakes to bring up so privately to the very bridge , that in one night they may be planted all along the river , and drown even pauls it self , by squirting all the water in the thames upon the city . now if you ask a papist whether he know of any such conspiracy , he will presently cast about in his thoughts to retrive some mentall reservation , and then down right deny that ever he heard any such thing . but to return from this feigned story of the recusant to the reall history of his new proselites , amongst whom he reckon'd these following : but pretended prudentiall reasons to excuse his concealment of many others . . the countesse of denby . . the lady kelimekin . . the lord cottington . . thomas vane , doctor of divinity . . hugh paulin de cressy , one of the late prebends of wyndsor . . sir marmaduke langdale . . sir francis doddington . . sir theophilus gilby . . mistresse bridget feilding . . doctor baily . . doctor cosen onely sonne . . dr. goff , entred into the religious order of the oratorians at paris . . master peter gule of balliol colledge in oxford . . mr. richard nicolls batchelor of divinity of peter-house cambridge . . mr. richard crashaw , master of arts of peter-house cambridge , well known for his excellent poems . . master william rowlands of exeter colledge , in oxford . . captain thomas cook . . master edward barker of caius colledge , cambridge . . master temple . . master osborne , &c. i must ingenuously confesse , i knew not well what answer to make the papist in this point , but still to expresse my dislike of such persecution even of any sort of christians : and am very confident , that were they treated more mercifully and invited to come to our spirituall conferences , ( which my recusant told me he would not at any time refuse , were it onely to discourse in an amicable christian way the points in difference between us ) we should gain more of them to us or at least hinder the growth of their religion more , then any tortures of body or sequestrations of their estates are like to do . nor is it reasonable to exact from such as dissent from us any other kind of presence at our exercises , then to propose their difficulties in a modest and peaceable way , and pariently to hear our answers , without expecting they should presently joyn with the congregation ; for that were to oblige them , to professe before they are satisfied , and practice before they know what it is they do ; whereas the scripture commands us first to try all things , and then hold fast that which is best . some , who have not onely the form but the power of godlinesse in this nation , have of late in order to the advancement of christs kingdome ) been induced to move and endeavour a re-admittance of the iews amongst us , in hope to be happy instruments in their conversion , which the scripture holds forth in the ii to the romanes . and why shall we not also ( upon like grounds of christian charity ) endevour the conversion of all other people of different perswasions in point of christianity , by being mercifull unto them , as our heavenly father is mercifull . luke . . but nothing so afflicts my spirit , as to consider the cruell gripes we give the papists , in respect of the light hand , which the turk himself bears over his christians ; to which purpose i shall here humbly offer an exact parallel of the papists sufferings in england , to the condition of the christians in turky . first clearing one easie objection , whereat some godly people seem to scruple ; they think the papists here suffer for some other fault , and not onely for difference of judgement in religion , which is an evident mistake ; for if their burthens be not laid on for their different judgements , why are they taken off , when they conform and become indifferent in their judgement ? why should their receiving the oath of abjuration deliver them from all penalties and sequestrations , if those penalties and sequestrations be not inflicted upon them , meerly for holding some opinions , which that oath obliges them to renounce . others even of the best affected have often in my hearing affirmed , that certainly that oath was onely intended as a means of discovery , for the magistrate to know , in whom he may confide ; but why then is it used so much beside their supposed intention ? or what need of annexing any penalty , which sure is the greatest hinderance of discovery ; for were there no danger in being a known refuser of that oath , few would be so diligent in concealing themselves , lest they should be known to refuse it . nor indeed is this oath ever offered to any upon the single ground of diffidence in their affections to the present government , but onely to such as are suspected of popery . but to return to the comparison i began to mention between the state of papists in england , and of christians in the turks dominions , i find by the best information i can gather , the great turks manner of bearing himself to his christian subjects to be strangely more temperate and lesse accusable of cruelty or covetousnesse , then we christians use to one another ; for as our travellers unanimously relate the whole annuall fine that any christian payes the grand signiniour upon the score of religion , comes to no more then a zecheen , which is lesse then our angell . and yet what ever we can object against our papists , the turk may with at least as much reason charge upon his christians ; some ancestors of the christians heretofore have taken up arms , and conspired with forraigners about the establisht government of their countrey ; and yet the mahometan ( whom we so much abominate as tyrannicall and barbarous ) can forgive the posterity of such undeserving parents , and let them live quietly under so small an annuall tribute for their religion . whereas our selves ( whom we so highly commend for christian meeknesse and charity ) can never forget the crimes of a few papists , never give over punishing the children for the faults of the fathers . the christians under the turk , cannot certainly be free from suspition of being disaffected to their magistrate , both upon former practices , and the principles of their religion ; yet rests he satisfied with disarming them , and excluding them from all offices of trust , and places of importance , to the interest of government . whereas we are so far from contenting our selves with such prudentiall cautions for our security , that we proceed to seize upon the best part of their estates , which in a short time must of necessity reduce them to absolute ruine and desperation : and yet there is one considerable ground of suspicion altogether unapplyable to the papists of england , which is , that the turk came from a strange country , to invade at once both the empire and religion of the grecians ; whereas the papists are all natives of this land , born with the same title to the common liberties , that our selves have , and for religion they onely stand peremptory in their old way , professing to be altogether unsatisfied concerning the reformation we hold forth unto them : in which case it is certainly a more christian and pious method to settle a way of instruction for them to save their souls , then to labour so much in drawing up new instructions for our sequestrators to ruine their estates . nor do the turks insist upon that common objection , that christians no where suffer turks , and therefore no reason they should tollerate the christians , as tasting more of womanish spite and revenge , then manly noblenesse and gallantry : how would these unhappy misled souls exceed us christians in moderation towards such as are otherwise minded , if they had read that golden rule of our saviour ; that we should render good for evil . but the inhumane practice of the turk in taking away so many children from the christian parents is extremely cruel and detestable , though as sir henry blount ( a person both compleatly learned , and perfectly civill ) observes in his voyage to the levant , when that custome was first introduced , many politick reasons might be alleged to excuse ( not justly ) so wicked tyrannicall an institution , if he could have so much as excused his wicked and tyrannicall usurpation ; the christians being very numerous , and by a barbarous stranger newly deprived of the dominion of their country ; all which circumstances naturally increase , and heighten the suspition of an usurper , whose sight was certainly far lesse sharp then his sword , if he did not clearly see that his new conquered subjects might perhaps for a time want an opportunity , but neither will , reason nor strength to attempt , by his expulsion the just recovery of their own liberties . but since the affairs of turky are so established that the musselman hath no longer any jealousie of the christians those unnaturall cruelties of plundering the parent of his child are altogether laid aside , and the christians permitted to purchase with a small fine a dispensation , and every one now enjoys this comfortable liberty , as they give their children birth , so to guide their education . not one of these considerations , but argues in favour of the present papists amongst us ; not one of these exceptions are they obnoxious to , their number being small and inconsiderable , their posture naked and disarmed , and the door long since by other powers shut against them , to all advantages in the nation : by which means they have neither so much disobligation to the present government , nor any possibility to work the least disturbance of its peace . and therefore , however upon the first reformation it was necessary to take a sharp and resolute course for diminution of the papists power , yet since they are reduced to so low and weak a condition , that we cannot handsomely even feign a danger from them , it is become now unnecessary , and consequently ( by our own maximes ) unlawful to continue the same penalties upon them : no other cause being truly sufficient to justifie our punishing others , but a true necessity of preserving our selves . and these i conceive may be by the reasons , why the papists have of late made their addresses to these gentlemen , that are appointed by parliament for regulation of the lawes , building their hope upon this ground , that as the causes of so great severity against them are ceased , the sad and ruinous effects may no longer be continued ; and certainly they could not have chosen a more proper way to obtain relief , than the applying of themselves to the committee , it being compounded of persons , whose abilities bear an excellent proportion to the greatnesse of the work they have undertaken , having in one half year seen further into the defects of our law , and the excesses of its practice , than many ages formerly have been able to discover , and whose integrity is so remarkable , that in the short space of a few months , they have design'd a perfect reform of more errours , than many ages formerly have been willing to search into . so that as their charity hath already provided a favourable course of mercy for the poor , their extreme industry and sincerity promises a speedy settlement of an equall and impartiall course of justice for all others . to this committee the recusants presented these two following papers , the first of which began with this title . the honoura●le committee for regulating the lawes is most humbly desired by the catholike recusants to take this schedule of the penall lawes against them , into their just , serious and favourable consideration . . the second refusall of the oath of supremacy punisht as high treason , eliz. . . to maintain or extol authority in the see of rome , the second time , high treason . eliz. . . to obtain or put in ure any bull from rome , high treason . eliz. . . to perswade or reconcile , or to be reconciled to the roman religion , high treason . eliz. & . jac. . . for jesuit or priest made by authority from the pope , to come to remain in the kings dominions , high treason . eliz. . . so for remaining in a seminary six months after proclamation , and afterward returning , high treason . eliz. . for concealing of a bull or other instrument from rome , or reconciliation offered , punisht as misprision of treason . eliz. . to maintain , or conceal those who perswade , or are reconciled to the roman religion , misprision of treason . eliz. . to receive , relieve , or comfort jesuit or priest , knowing him to be such alone , punisht as felony . eliz. . to refuse to abjure the realm , being commanded , or to return without license , felony . eliz. , . to go and serve a forrain prince , having not before taken the oath of alegiance , and entred bond not to be reconciled to the roman religion , felony . jac. . the first refusal of the oath of supremacy is punisht as in case of a premunire , which imports a forfeiture of all lands and goods , imprisonment for life , and a deprivement of the benefit of the law . eliz. . . to set forth , or defend power spiritual in the see of rome , premunire . eli. . to bring or receive any agnus dei , crosses , pictures , or such like from rome , premunire . eli . . eliz. . to aid any person who hath put in ure any bull from the see of rome , premunire . eliz. . eliz. . to send , or give relief to any continuing in colledges , or seminaries beyond premunire . eliz. . refusal of the oath of alegeance upon the second tender , premunire . jac. . & jac. . for not discovering of priests made beyond the seas , imprisonment . eliz. . upon inditement of recusancy by proclamation , imprisonment . eliz. . for refusall to go to church , or to be present at the reading of the common-prayer , imprisonment without bail . eliz. . those that are not able , or fail to pay their forfeitures , are to be imprisoned ; untill payment , or conformity . eliz. . women covert imprisoned for refusal of the oath of alegeance . jac. . for non-payment of twelve-pence for every sunday , imprisonment . jac. . woman covert convicted for recusancy imprisoned till her husband pay tenne pounds a moneth , or a third part of his lands . jac. . standing excommunicated for recusancy , house may be broken up for his apprehension . jac. . those who shall forbear to come to church , by the space of twelve months , bound to the good behaviour , with surety in the kings bench . eliz. . every recusant is confined to five miles compasse for life . eliz. . to ten miles distant from london jac. . not to come into the house where the king , or his heir apparent is . jac. . for absence from church-service every sunday d forfeited . eliz. . and for every holiday , twelve-pence forfeited . jac. . for absence from common-prayer every month , twenty pounds forfeited . eliz. . & jac. . for default of payment of twenty pounds a month , all goods , two parts of land , and leases forfeited . eliz . & jac. . at the kings election to take or refuse twenty pounds a moneth , or to take two parts of the recusants estate . jac. . . all coppy hold lands of recusants forfeited . eliz. . the forfeitures of the ancestor charged upon his heir being a recusant . jac. . a conformed recusant forfeits for not receiving the sacrament , according to the service-book , the first year twenty pounds , the second year forty pounds , the third year , and every year after , sixty pounds . jac. . . to the presenter out of the recusants goods forty shillings forfeited , jac. . . for every recusant sojourner and servant , ten pounds for every moneth forfeited . . jac. . . two parts of dower or ioynture of a married woman forfeited , jac. . . coming to court , an hundred pounds forfeited . jac. . . for not baptising children according to the service-book publickly within a moneth after their birth , an hundred pounds forfeited . jac. . . for marrying otherwise then by a minister , an hundred pounds forfeited jac. . for burying out of the church or church-yard l. forfeited . jac. . . for sending children beyond the seas without licence l. forfeited . jac. . . for maintaining a scoolmaster not going to church or allowed to teach , for every moneth ten pounds forfeited . eliz. . & eliz. . . and forty shillings per diem forfeited by the schoolmaster and recusant that keeps him . jac. . , all goods and lands during life , for breach of confinement forfeited eliz. . & . jac. . . the like forfeiture for going or sending children beyond the seas to be bred in popery . car. . . for residing within ten miles of london , l. forfeited . jac. . . for practising any function expressed in the statute of jac. . a hundred pounds forfeited . jac. . . disabled to reverse indictment , for want of form or other defect . . jac. . . disabled from the practice of severall functions whereby to gain their livings , viz. from practising common law , civill law , or being a steward , attorney solicitor or officer in any court ; from practising physick or being an apothecary ; and from bearing any office in camp , troop or band of souldiers , or in any ship , castle or fortresse . &c. jac. . . by the wifes recusancy , the husband disabled from publick office or charge in the common-wealth . jac. . . by marrying otherwise then the church of england alloweth , the husband disabled to be tenant by courtesie , the wife disabled to have dower , joyncture free , banks , or any part or portion of her husbands goods . jac. . , disabled to sue or prosecute actions , to present to a benefice , to be executor , administrator , or guardian . jac. . . children sent beyond the seas without licence are disabled to take benefit of gift , conveyance , descent , or devise . jac. & . jac. . . notwithstanding these forfeitures , recusants are losse subject to ecclesiasticall sentences . eliz. . & jac. . by the greatest part of pecuniary forfeitures , they are subject to grievous vexations of informers . the statutes of double subsidies , considering their other payments are exceeding ●eavy . besides all these lawes , the late ordinances of sequestration upon refusall of the oath of abjuration , by which , two third parts of all their estates reall and personall are forfeited . april . & august . an oath made by the presbyterians , and intended onely for the time of war . an oath by which we are forced to accuse and condemn our selves without any legall proceedings or witnes against us . an oath by which we are punisht , not for publishing any opinion to the disturbance of others , but onely for believing ; which is to accuse and condemn men for the thoughts of their hearts . an oath that contains in it matters of highest difficulty , yet are young and ignorant persons , and even women without the least preceding instruction , equally forc'd to take it , or punished for refusing it . and in the instructions to the sequestrators octob. . they are charged to seize and secure the estates of all such persons , whom they suspect to be within the reach of the ordinance , and so leave them to the after-game of clearing themselves as they can ; which is to punish before the triall , nay even before answer of the accused . in company of this long roll of penall statutes ( made in former times upon particular occasions ) they presented also certain arguments to induce a mitigation of those lawes , so frightfull even in number , but far more harsh and churlish in their nature ; upon the head of which second paper was this inscription . some few motives , why roman-catholiques should not be forced out of their consciences by penalties imposed upon them meerly for religion . all persecution for religion is cleerly repugnant to the principles of freedom , so often and solemaly declared by the parliament and army , and now universally received by all the moderate and well-temper'd people of this nation : nor can it agree with the duty of any peaceable spirit , to distrust the performance of so charitable a promise . many and evident texts of holy scripture ( even according to the interpretation of the more conscientious protestants ) expresly condemn all compulsion upon the conscience , recommending mildnesse and charity , as principall perfections to a christian magistrate . besides these , catholiques have many considerations to be reflected on of a more particular advantage to their condition . the crime imputed to them is only their continuance in that religion , which the whole nation ( till this last age ) universally profest , ever since its conversion from paganism ; and though time precisely considered , make not a religion true , yet certainly it may pretend to a fair title of exempting it from persecution . the principles of their religion are under all governments the same , and in their nature absolutely uncapable of change ; so that the magistrate once rightly inform'd of their doctrine , and satisfied by promise of their fidelity , may rest secure , that no danger can arise from them by innovation . since the points in controversie are generally thought not cleer , but difficult , especially by such in whom education ( if it were no more ) has fixt a strong apprehension of the reasonablenesse of their cause , it would appear severe ( if not unreasonable ) to force them by penalties to any new way , or altogether restrain them from continuing in their old : perswasions of that kind , as by degrees they sink into the heart , so gently by degrees they are to be removed . since they seriously and constantly profess , that after all their prayers to god , and diligent reading of his word , they cannot find the least satisfaction in any other religion , but that their souls enjoy a perfect peace and serenity in their own ; it seems very unsuitable to christian charity , either to compel them to a religion , where their consciences cannot live in repose , or restrain them from a religion , wherein onely they find comfort here , and hope for salvation hereafter . since all the signes and makes of tender consciences are most apparently discernable in roman catholiques , they cannot but hope , the charity and indulgence universally held forth to tender consciences , will not universally be denyed to them ; they all suffer for their consciences an impoverisht and afflicted life , and many of them a cruel and ignominous death ; and can any rational and unpassionate person see so much suffering for conscience , and say the sufferers have no conscience ? as for religion , it allowes no vice or licenciousnesse against the moral law ( the proper subject of the magistrates care ) but strictly requires a religious severity against the corrupt inclinations of nature , and a conscientious observance both of the law of god and man . not one of all the nation , how different soever in religion , how dis-affected soever to the quiet of this common-wealth , but enjoyes ( by its allowance and protection ) a perfect quiet for his conscience , onely the roman catholiques , though they have generally taken , and punctually kept the engagement , are singled out to misery and ruine , meerly upon the account of religion . yet cannot all the heavy pressures they have so long endured make them lay down their hopes to be at last relieved , especially from those , who professe themselves not only bound by the light of nature to deal with others , as they would be dealt with themselves , but by the law of grace , even to render good for evil . the causes of imposing penalties upon catholiques , being now wholly ceased , they humbly hope it cannot be thought too great a boldness in their duty to petition a re-admittance to the common rights of free-born english men ; since there is neither any catholique competitor for the crown , nor any such detestable conspiracy , as some few of their religion have been formerly guilty of : so that there remains no other charge , but that of conscience , to exclude them from the ful enjoyment of the priviledges of their native country . no question can be made of the fidelity of their engagement , who esteem the keeping of an oath sacred : and what stronger testimony can be given to the world , than that of catholiques in freely offering up their estates to seizure , and their persons to all the inconveniencies of a persecuted life , rather than against their consciences dissemblingly to swear one oath ; for could they with the popes dispensation , or their own mentall reservation ( which they are charg'd to be still furnisht with their own advantage ) abjure the doctrine they believe , there remains nothing now to distinguish them into that sad and miserable condition they are reduced to . were all burthens taken off from the consciences of such as shall engage to live peaceably and unoffensively in their country , this nation would rather improve its security at home , since coercence in matters of belief has alwayes been the chief cause of our troubles : and for abroad , the same reason that begets a conceit of danger from the catholiques correspondence with forraign princes , will convince a benefit , if by mercy they be obliged to employ their credit in the service of their benefactors . reasons why composition is preferrable before sale . and now we beg pardon humbly to offer up to the consideration and compassion of the iadifferent the most afflicted condition of many catholiques , whose lands are now designed to be sold for their delinquency . most of which in the beginning of the late war ( seeing themselves unprotected by the parl. and expos'd to the plunder of the then souldiery ) fled into the kings garrisons to save their own lives , without taking up armes to offend others . and even they who actually engaged for the king ( the sole disposal of all penall laws being in his power ) were owners both of their lives and fortunes meerly at his pleasure , and yet notwithstanding so great a plea for their excuse , as the supreme law of self-preservation , they are all ready humbly to submit to composition : a proceeding which they hope will be condiscended unto , since it is as well apparently more beneficial to the state , as lesse destructive to the compounders : for , after all just claims and true debts allowed , and the vast expences of surveyours , and other officers deducted , the clear profit that arises upon sale , is , by experience , founded to come far short of what was expected . and this after a tedious controversie about the allowance of incumbrances , very chargeable to the suitors and altogether unprofitable to the common-wealth . besides catholiques are generally tenants only for life , and as generally subject ( before the late troubles ) to very many engagements really and unavoidably charged upon their estates , unlesse such incumbrances be allowed , thousands of well-affected people will be disappointed of their just debts . whereas by setting rules for composition , a greater sum may be raised , and every one immediately bring his money into the publique treasury , without any further charges , delay , or trouble , either to the common-wealth or compounders . the compounders will have a stronger obligation to live quietly hereafter , both by the fine they part with , and the estate they retain , advancing so much to purchase their peace , and having still something to lose , if they break it . the state will by this shew to all the world , that they seek only the security of the government establish , and not the ruine or utter extirpation of any private family . these motives and reasons i have both seriously thought upon in my own spirit , and often conferred about with others , and after all my endeavours i find them so reasonable and satisfactory , that i confesse they have not only moved my bowels to a compassion of such sufferers , but truly even to a zeal of their relief , so far i mean , as that they , who neither disturb the publick peace of the common-wealth , nor refuse their contributions to maintain it , should no longer be compelled by oathes and sequestrations to act against their consciences . besides , these diligences of late used by the papists , in order to the obtainment of relief from the committee for regulation of the lawes ; they prepared also certain proposalls , with intent ( as i understand ) to present them to the committee for propagation of the gospel , but being called into the country by an urgent and importunate occasion , i am disabled to give any farther account concerning their proposals , not knowing either how they were accepted , or indeed whether they were actually offered , and therefore can only furnish you with a faithfull copy of the paper it self . to the honourable the committee for the propagation of the gospel : the humble proposals of the roman catholicks . . since all compulsion upon the conscience is clearly against the principles both of parliament and army , as appears by the parliaments declaration in answer to the scotch commissioners , feb. . in these words : as for the truth and power of religion , it being a thing intrinsecal between god and the soul , and the matters of faith in the gospel , such as no natural light can reach , we conceive there is no humane power of coercion thereunto , nor to restrain men from believing what god suffers their judgment to be perswaded of . amongst the proposals of the army , aug. . this was one , that all coercive power , and all civil penalties for non-formity , be wholly repealed , and some other provision made against such papists as should disturb the publique peace . and since by the experience of germany , poland , switzerland , holland , france , &c. the consistency of divers religions under one government is evidently proved , as well where the protestant commands the roman catholick , as where the roman catholick commands the protestant . it is humbly offered . that no penalty be imposed upon any , professing the gospel of christ , meerly for difference of judgement in matters of religion . . the publick use of all churches , and the entire benefit of church-endowment , being wholly submitted to the disposure of the state . it is humbly offered . that no person , believing in christ jesus , and living peaceably , and unoffensively , be by any penalty restrained from the quiet exercise of his conscience in his private house ; observing therein such rules as the state shall think fit to appoint for preservation of the publick peace ; a practice which by long experience in holland is found both satisfactory to the people , and secure to the governours of the common-wealth . . since the law of god is so far from allowing any penal sentence to be grounded upon the enforced oath of the party , that it expresly forbids any offence whatsoever to be tryed by the single testimony of one witnesse , deut. . . mat. . . it is humbly proposed . that no oath be exacted of any person , compelling him under forfeiture of life , liberty , or estate , to swear against his conscience , or to accuse and condemn himself , especially in matters that concern his inward belief . . since in all religions there are still found some scandalous livers , and that our saviour pronounces the woe against him onely , by whom the scandal comes , mat. . . luke . . it is humbly proposed . that who ever shall offend against the orders of so milde and christian a settlement , may be severely censured , but that others ( though of the same judgment in religion ) be no farther made subject to the punishment , then proved guilty of the crime . in stead of my opinion concerning these four proposals of the papists ( because to my sense they carry in themselves both their own evidence and justification ) i shall beg the readers permission to set down a particular conceit , which i have often observed to be very well relisht by all that have examined it . that doubtles there is no way more suitable to the first principles of all reformed churches , no way so probable to satisfie all consciences , as not to impose any other obligation for proof of conformity , than this profession to believe the holy scriptures of the old and new testament to be the word of god , and to live according to the precepts plainly contained therein , this acknowledgement to be exprest in generall termes without descending minutely to particular questions , which hath certainly been the chief cause of so many controversies and divisions in the world . and now i humbly appeal to the honourable and religious committee for propagation of the gospel , whether the sweet spirit of the lord christ ( who gave his apostles no further power , than to relinquish such as refused to hear them ) be reconcileable to the former practices of the high commissioners , or the present practices of our sequestrators ; whether , when the great apostle paul prescribes the servants of the lord to forbear , and in meeknesse instruct those that are contrary minded , he should be thus cros-interpreted , that the estates of those who are contrary minded , be first secured or forborn , and then after a time quite taken away , to instruct them in meeknesse , or how to bear patiently the losse of the vain and transitory riches of this world . and now i humbly appeal to the honorable and learned committee for regulation of the law , whether ( since all those penalties which the rigorous humours of former ages have , under pretence of zeal , imposed upon the conscience , are either by disuse forgotten , or by expresse act of parliament revoked ) the papists alone should still be continued under the same severities , nay their burthens encreased by the strange method of the new proceedings towards them , their consciences being not only punishable to the common way of indictment , but compellable even to accuse themselves by the new presbyterian oath of abjuration , against the known principles of the ancient and reverend lawes of this land . and now with an humble confidence , i appeal to the renowned parliament of the common-wealth of england , whether in this generall goal-delivery of the conscience from the tyranny and oppression of the prelates , the consciences of papists alone , ought still to be kept in prison ? whether , when all the fetters , which the rigid kirkesmen had bought up in scotland , are broken in pieces just as they were locking them fast about our consciences in england , the consciences of papists alone ought still to be continued in chains ? whether , when all the societies professing christ jesus , and living obediently to the magistrate , and peaceably one with another , are protected in the quiet and unoffensive exercise of their consciences , the papists alone should be forced under the penalty of so great a ruine , not only to professe , but swear against their consciences ? a course that in a short time will unavoidably bring them either to absolute beggery , or , which is worse , to hypocrisie , or , which is worst of all , to perjury . all the people of this nation look upon you as their common father , all promise themselves liberty and protection under your government , ( though some may justly be excluded from sharing in the government . ) were there in my family one child that profest to find satisfaction in the way of the papists , and lived dutifully to me , and lovingly with with his brethren , i should account it a great unnaturalnesse to deprive him altogether of his portion , much more of that which he has received from the bounty of any collateral kinsman , or acquired by his own particular diligence and improvement ; and though some papists have heretofore been truly chargeable with heinous crimes against their country , yet why should our justice over-reach to condemn all , for the offences of a few ? if they have formerly abetted competitors to the crown , why should the punishments so long out-live the fault ? certainly the offendours being dead , their trespasses should rather be buried in their graves , and not like ghosts walk to affright and pinch their children . it is time we should now mix a little mercy to allay the fumes of so much justice , which otherwise will not ascend to the almighty's throne in the odour of sweetnesse . it is time we should begin to imitate the pattern , which our merciful god has set before us in his own practice , when he commanded the destroying angel to sheath his sword , with this compassionate motto , it is enough . it is time we should begin to answer the bounty of our god , who has so freely given us the blessings of thousand talents , by freely forgiving our fellow-servants the small sum of pence . let us invade , or storme the consciences of our brethren ; for the lord was not in the great and strong wind that rent the mountains , and brake in pieces the rocks : let us not shake the inward peace of any quiet and unoffensive christian ; for the lord was not in the earth-quake : let us not kindle in our hearts a devouring flame of uncharitable zeal ; for the lord was not in the fire : but let us compose our affections to the soft and gentle key of love , and mutuall forbearance ; for the lord was in the still small voice . let us alwayes attend to this still voice of the lord , speaking with us , do as you as you would be done unto ; let us alwayes attend to this small , but sweet voice of the lord , calling upon us , love your enemies , blesse them that curse you , doe good to them that hate you , and pray for them that despitefully use you , and persecute you , that you may be the children of your father which is in heaven ; for he maketh his sun to rise on the evill , and on the good , and sendeth rain on the just , and on the unjust ; for if you love them which love you , what reward have you ? do not even the publicans the same ? and if you salute your brethren onely , what do you more than others ? do not even the publicans so ? be you therefore perfect , as your father which is in heaven , is perfect . post-script . it was the will and providence of the lord ( to whose dispensations as well of iustice as mercy we must resigne our little intersts ) to call me suddenly into the country upon a sad and mournful occasion , which utterly defeated my purpose of reviewing these few lines : and therefore , after my humblest submission of them to the judgment of the supreme authority , i am encouraged to presume the courteous pardon of the readers , especially if ( since it is truly a kind of death to me to live out of london ) he will please to consider this as a posthumous pamphlet , containing the serious though indigested thoughts of will . birchley . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a e- i. pet. . . ii. tim. . iii. rom. . luk. . . luk. . ● iv. exod. . mat. . eccles. . . ephes. . . . principles of the pre●ent go●ernment . . scripture . . ancient and quiet ●ossession . . ●nchan●eable . . education . ●atisfacti●n in their religion . tender consciences . even the most disaffected have liberty . causes of punishing ceased . their fidelity . advantage● at home & abroad . compounding more beneficial to the state . tim. . . mat. . . kings . , . mat. . . tertullus christianus, or, thanks for the kings indulgence, with a rebuke of ingratitude. w. w. approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page image. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). b wing w interim tract supplement guide c. .f. 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(eebo-tcp ; phase , no. b ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books; tract supplement ; a : [ ]) tertullus christianus, or, thanks for the kings indulgence, with a rebuke of ingratitude. w. w. sheet ([ ] p.). s.n.], [london : printed in the year . signed: w.w. place of publication suggested by wing. verse: "be gone sarcastick harpyes and your spawns ..." reproduction of original in the british library. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng religious tolerance -- poetry -- early works to . great britain -- history -- charles ii, - -- early works to . - tcp assigned for keying and markup - spi global keyed and coded from proquest page images - mona logarbo sampled and proofread - mona logarbo text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion tertullus christianus , or thanks for the kings indulgence , with a rebuke of ingratitude . be gone sarcastick harpyes and your spawns , hence ye rough satyrs , and ye flattering fawns : cynicks avast , whose wits composed be of chymick drugs , salt , sulphur , mercury . whilst joyful non-conformists welcome in their year of jubilee with cheerful din ; and with a clang sent from the silver trump blow joy to friends , and strike into a dump repining foes come , sound aloud , and clear ; let no harsh jarring in your notes appear . conform in this : transports of gladness shall pass for fanaticism venial . confinement to a cage and place obscure to sing well now must needs have taught you sure . if memnons broken statue , by the ray of rising phaebus warm'd the harp could play ; and if drebellus organs , thaw'd alone by the suns heat , gave a melodious tone ; what ? shall not we , when , such a light is shewn , prove that our instruments are right in tune ? a light , like that which peters angel brought , ( and which the same celestial power hath wrought ) whose piercing lustre hath dissolv'd our chains . and th' iron-gate relaxed without pains . setting us gratis in the open street o● liberty , with clear unshackled feet . look now but up , and see a brighter scene , how the wrack rides , and heavens are made serene by royal breath ; the sun with free aspect doth equal light and warmth to all project . the floods are calm'd , the swelling surges cease , asswag'd by powerful trident ; that in peace the halcyons now may build their nests . — but oh , what mean yon ominous porpus to and fro , lifting their swarthy backs above the main , as if they did predict some hurricane or dreadful tempest ? which way stands the wind ? south east by east . that quarter is unkind ; but yet me thinks the sky looks very clear , within the compass of our hemisphear . take the perspective then , contract your eye . well , now a little cloud i do descry like a mans hand stretcht out , ( here like 's the same ) a great way off , towards the mediterrane . why , this same cloud , unless you hasten in , will all ' orecast , and wet you to the skin . how skill you that ? perhaps 't will disappear in time , or meetly turn to wind : how ' ere we 'r in good safty yet , if 't come no near . why ? hear you not what france of late hath done ? how they 've a channell cut from the garown to the levant ? an expeditious way , vvhereby the bridge-maker of thymbris may convey materials to our narrow seas , and let in such philistines as he please by such a bridge , as xerxes numerous hoast discharg'd themselves upon the thracian coast , vvell , stay but till you see his gallies float , and then perhaps in a small fishers boat , like him , he 'l backward cross the ocean , as right successor to a fisherman . but why such strange surmizes ? sure ye be slipt from the discipline of agape . ha's the late signal favour merited no better sentiments , or judgement bred ? the pope must come , because it may be so ; he 'l thrust-in's body , where he gets-in's toe . is charls and james , and great eliza's name grown cyphers then , d' ye think ? away for shame , and keep your may-bees closs , nor let them swarm so soon ; you 'l find their stings will do much harm , and many inward swellings cause , whose rage honey alone , and sweetness will asswage . vvould you that shem and japhet slight the ark , because a cham himself doth there imbark ? or should the sheep and doves have kept away because it harbour'd vvolves and birds of prey ? vvhere prudence rules affairs , all will do well , and noxious things are kept within their cell . vvell aim'd that ancient sage , who said or sung , each thing two handles had , a right and wrong : you think perhaps by your lefthanded slights t' augment the number of the benjamites ; but hit aright , i guess , you never will , no gain their glory by your awkard skill . vvhat wayward mood incites you to catch hold of the hot end , when you may take the cold ? forbear in time , 't will scortch your hands , i wis ; spit but on 't first , and you shall find it hiss . this is like moses rod ; offer to take it by the head , 't will prove a biting snake ; catch th' end that 's tractable , 't will straight commence a staffe both for support , and for defence , and may perhaps , if rightly us'd , no less then his in time effect strange miracles do not like peevish children then refuse the profferd good , which you deny'd would chuse ; nor shew your selves such idiot rustick folk to chew the wrong end of the artichoak ; nor yet such cockneys , as your mouths to rake with awnes of wheat , when you the grain may take . believe a friend , you 'l make him so : and this may prove the prodrome of a greater bliss . retire a while ; let those that dread the title of new-phanaticks , shew their skill a little . and furbish th ir'artillery , to contest with this new romish , or romantick beast . let them with their ador'd rati●cination combate this monster of their own creation : forbear , good pope , and keep beyond the sea ; thou' rt kil'd already in effigie . or if to vent their passion they but mean ? 't will serve in time t'evacuate their spleen . whilst our tertullus , fraught with gratitude , doth with his old preamble now conclude , since we by thee great quietness enjoy , nor poenall laws for conscience us annoy , but very worthy deeds thou dost dispense unto this nation , by thy providence , we always do accept so great redress , most noble felix , with all thankfulness . deus nobis haec otia fecit . w. w. printed in the year . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div b -e pontifex . the blovdy tenent, of persecution, for cause of conscience, discussed, in a conference betweene trvth and peace vvho, in all tender affection, present to the high court of parliament, as the result of their discourse, these, amongst other passages, of highest consideration. williams, roger, ?- . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing w estc r ocm this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; :e , no ) the blovdy tenent, of persecution, for cause of conscience, discussed, in a conference betweene trvth and peace vvho, in all tender affection, present to the high court of parliament, as the result of their discourse, these, amongst other passages, of highest consideration. williams, roger, ?- . cotton, john, - . [ ], p. [s.n.], london : . a plea for religious toleration. included are tracts by john cotton. attributed to roger williams. cf. nuc pre- . reproduction of original in thomason collection, british library. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng religious tolerance -- history -- th century. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - aptara keyed and coded from proquest page images - john latta sampled and proofread - john latta text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion the blovdy tenent , of persecution , for cause of conscience , discussed , in a conference betweene trvth and peace . vvho , in all tender affection , present to the high court of parliament , ( as the result of their discourse ) these , ( amongst other passages ) of highest consideration . printed in the year . first , that the blood of so many hundred thousand souls of protestants and papists , spilt in the war● of present and former ages , for their respective consciences , is not required nor accepted by iesus christ the prince of peace . secondly , pregnant scriptures and arguments are throughout the worke proposed against the doctrine of persecution for for cause of conscience . thirdly , satisfactorie answers are given to scriptures , and objections produced by mr. calvin , beza , mr. cotton , and the ministers of the new english churches , and others former and later , tending to prove the doctrine of persecution for cause of conscience . fourthly , the doctrine of persecution for cause of conscience , is proved guilty of all the blood of the soules crying for vengeance under the altar . fifthly , all civill states , with their officers of justice in their respective constitutions and administrations are proved essentially civill , and therefore not iudges , governours or defendours of the spirituall or christian state and worship . sixtly , it is the will and command of god , that since the comming of his sonne the lord iesus ) a permission of the most paganish , iewish , turkish or antichristian consciences and worships , bee granted to all men in all nations and countries : and they are onely to bee fought against with that sword which is only ( in soule matters ) able to conquer , to wit , the sword of gods spirit , the word of god. seventhly , the state of the land of israel , the kings and people thereof in peace & war , is proved figurative and ceremoniall , and no patterne nor president for any kingdom or civill state in the world to follow . eightly , god requireth not an uniformity of religion to be inacted and inforced in any civill state ; which inforced uniformity ( sooner or later ) is the greatest occasion of civill warre , ravishing of conscience , persecution of christ iesus in his servants , and of the hypocrisie and destruction of millions of souls . ninthly , in holding an inforced uniformity of religion in a civill state , we must necessarily disclaime our desires and hopes of the iewes conversion to christ. tenthly , an inforced uniformity of religion throughout a nation or civill state , confounds the civill and religious , denies the principles of chr●stianity and civility , and that iesus christ is come in the flesh. eleventhly , the permission of other consciences and worships then a state professeth , only can ( according to god ) procure a firme and lasting peace , ( good assurance being taken according to the wisdome of the civill state for uniformity of civill obedience from all sorts . ) twelfthly , lastly , true civility and christianity may both flourish in a state or kingdome , notwithstanding the permission of divers and contrary consciences , either of iew or gentile . to the right honorable , both houses of the high court of parliament . right honourable and renowned patriots : next to the saving of your own soules ( in the lamentable shipwrack of mankind ) your taske ( as christians ) is to save the soules , but as magistrates , the bodies and goods of others . many excellent discourses have been presented to your fathers hands and yours in former and present parliaments : i shall be humbly bold to say , that ( in what concernes your duties as magistrates , towards others ) a more necessary and seasonable debate was never yet presented . two things your honours here may please to view ( in this controversie of persecution for cause of conscience ) beyond what 's extant . first the whole body of this controversie form'd & pitch'd in true battalia . secondly ( although in respect of my selfe it be impar congressus , yet in the power of that god who is maximus in mini●is , your honours shall see the controversie is discussed with men as able as most , eminent for abilitie and pietie , mr. co●ton , and the new english ministers . when the prophets in scripture have given their coats of armes and escutch●ons to great men , your honours know the babylonian monarch hath the lyon , the persian the beare , the grecian the leopard , the romane a compound of the former . most strange and dreadfull , dan. . their oppressing , plundring ravishing , murthering , not only of the bodies , but the soules of men are large explaining commentaries of such similitudes . your honours have been famous to the end of the world , for your unparallel'd wisdome , courage , justice , mercie , in the vindicating your civill lawes , liberties , &c. yet let it not be grievous to your honours thoughts to ponder a little , why all the prayers and teares and fastings in this nation have not pierc'd the heavens , and quench'd these flames , which yet who knowes how far they 'll spread , and when they 'll out ! your honours have broke the jawes of the oppressour , and taken the prey out of their teeth ( iob. . ) for which act i believe it hath pleased the most high god to set a guard ( not only of trained men , but ) of mighty angels , to secure your sitting , and the citie . i feare we are not pardoned , though reprieved : o that there may be a lengthning of londons tranquilitie , of the parliaments safetie , by mercy to the poore ! dan. . right honourable , soule yokes , soule oppressions plundrings , ravishings , &c. are of a crimson and deepest dye , and i believe the chiefe of englands sins , unstopping the viols of englands present sorrowes . this glasse presents your honours with arguments from religion , reason , experience , all proving that the greatest yoakes yet lying upon english necks , ( the peoples and your own ) are of a spirituall and soule nature . all former parliaments have changed these yoakes according to their consciences ( popish or protestant ) 't is now your honours turne at helme , and ( as your task , so i hope your res●lution , not to change ( for that is but to turne the wheele , which another parliament , and the very next may turne againe : ) but to ●ase the subjects and your selves from a yoake ( as was once spoke in a case not unlike act . ) which neither you nor your fathers were ever able to beare . most noble senatours , your fathers ( whose seats you fill ) are mouldred , and mouldring their braines , their tongu●s , &c. to ashes in the pit of rottenesse : they and you must shortly ( together with two worlds of men ) appeare at the great barre : it shall then be no griefe of heart that you have now attended to the cries of soules , thousands oppressed , millions ravished by the acts and statutes concerning soules , not yet repealed . of bodies impoverished , imprisoned , &c. for their soules beliefe , yea slaughtered on heapes for religions controversies in the warres of present and former ages . notwithstanding the successe of later times , ( wherein sundry opinions have been hatched about the subject of religion ) a man may clearly discerne with his eye , and as it were touch with his finger that according to the verity of holy scriptures , &c. mens consciences ought in no sort to be violated , urged or constrained . and whensover men have attempted any thing by this violent course , whether openly or by secret meanes , the issue hath beene pernicious , and the cause of great and wonderfull innovations in the principallest and mightiest kingdomes and countries , &c. it cannot be denied to be a pious and prudentiall act for your honours ( according to your conscience ) to call for the advice of faithfull councellours in the high debates concerning your owne , and the soules of others . yet let it not be imputed as a crime for any suppliant to the god of heaven for you , if in the humble sense of what their soules beleeve , they powre forth ( amongst others ) these three requests at the throne of grace . first , that neither your honours , nor those excellent and worthy persons , whose advice you seek , limit the holy one of israel to their apprehensions , debates , conclusions , rejecting or neglecting the humble and faithfull suggestions of any , though as base as spittle and clay , with which sometimes christ iesus opens the eyes of them that are borne blinde . secondly , that the present and future generations of the sons of men may never have cause to say that such a parliament ( as england never enjoyed the like ) should modell the worship of the living , eternall and invisible god after the bi●● of any earthly interest , though of the highest concernment under the sunne : and yet , saith that learned sir francis bacon ( how ever otherwise perswaded , yet thus he confesseth : ) such as hold pressure of conscience , are guided therein by some private interests of their owne . thirdly , what ever way of worshipping god your owne consciences are perswaded to walke in , yet ( from any bloody act of violence to the consciences of others ) it may bee never told at rome nor oxford , that the parliament of england hath committed a greater rape , then if they had forced or ravished the bodies of all the women in the world. and that englands parliament ( so famous throughout all europe and the world ) should at last turne papists , prelatists , presbyterians , independents , socinians , familists , antinomians , &c. by confirming all these sorts of consciences , by civill force and violence to their consciences . to every courteous reader . vvhile i plead the cause of truth and innocencie against the bloody doctrine of persecution for cause of conscience , i judge it not unfit to give alarme to my selfe , and all men to prepare to be persecuted or ●●nted for cause of conscience . whether thou standest charged with or but talents , if thou huntest any for cause of conscience , how canst thou say thou followest the lambe of god who so abhorr'd that practice ? if paul , if iesus christ were present here at london , and the question were proposed what religion would they approve of : the papists , prelatists , presbyterians , independents , &c. would each say , of mine , of mine . but put the second question , if one of the severall sorts should by major vote attaine the sword of steele : what weapons doth christ jesus authorize them to sight with in his cause ? doe not all men hate the persecutor , and every conscience true or false complaine of cruelty , tyranny ? &c. two mountaines of crying guilt lye heavie upon the backes of all that name the name of christ in the eyes of iewes , turkes and pagans . first , the blasphemies of their idolatrous inventions , superstitions , and most unchristian conversations . secondly , the bloody irreligious and inhumane oppressions and destructions under the maske or vaile of the name of christ , &c. o how like is the jealous iehovah , the consuming fire to end these present slaughters in a greater slaughter of the holy witnesses ? rev. . six yeares preaching of so much truth of christ ( as that time afforded in k. edwards dayes ) kindles the flames of q. maries bloody persecutions . who can now but expect that after so many scores of yeares preaching and professing of more truth , and amongst so many great contentions amongst the very best of protestants , a fierie furnace should be heat , and who sees not now the ●ires kindling ? i confesse i have little hopes till those flames are over , that this discourse against the doctrine of persecution for cause of conscience should passe currant ( i say not amongst the wolves and lions , but even amongst the sheep of christ themselves ) yet liberavl animam meam , i have not hid within my breast my souls belief : and although sleeping on the bed either of the pleasures or profits of sin●e thou thinkest thy conscience bound to smite at him that dares to waken thee ? yet in the middest of all these civill and spirituall wars ( i hope we shall agree in these particulars . ) first , how ever the proud ( upon the advantage of an higher earth or ground ) or ' clooke the poore and cry out schismatickes . hereticks , &c. shall blasphemers and seducers scape unpunished ? &c. yet there is a sorer punishment in the gospel for despising of christ then moses , even when the despiser of m●ses was put to death without mercie , heb. . , . he that beleeveth not shall bee damned , marke . . secondly , what ever worship , ministry , ministration , the best and purest are practised without faith and true perswasion that they are the true institutions of god , they are sin , sinfull worships , ministries , &c. and however in civill things we may be servants unto men , yet in divine and spirituall things the poorest pesant must disdaine the service of the highest prince : be ye not the servants of men , cor. . thirdly , without search and triall no man attaines this faith and right perswasion , thes. . try all things . in vaine have english parliaments permitted english bibles in the poorest english houses , and the simplest man or woman to search the scriptures , if yet against their soules perswasion from the scripture , they should be forced ( as if they lived in spaine or rome it selfe without the sight of a bible ) to beleeve as the church beleeves . fourthly , having tried , we must hold fast , thessal . . upon the losse of a crowne , revel . . we must not let goe for all the ●lea bitings of the present afflictions , &c. having bought truth deare , we must not ●ell it cheape , not the least graine of it for the whole world , no not for the saving of soules , though our owne most precious ; least of all for the bitter sweetning of a little vanishing pleasure . for a little puffe of credit and reputation from the changeable breath of uncertaine sons of men . for the broken bagges of riches on eagles wings : for a dreame of these , any or all of these which on our death-bed vanish and leave tormenting stings behinde them : oh how much better is it from the love of truth , from the love of the father of lights , from whence it comes , from the love of the sonne of god , who is the way and the truth , to say as he , iohn . . for this end was i borne , and for this end came i into the world that i might be are witnesse to the truth . a table of the principall contents of the booke . truth and peace their rare and seldome meeting . page great complaints of peace . persecutors seldome plead christ but moses for their authour . strife christian and unchristian . ibid a threefold dolefull cry . ibid. the wonderfull providence of god in the writing of the argument●s against persecution . a definition of persecution discussed . conscience will not be restrained from its owne worship , nor constrained to another . a chaste soule in gods worship , compared to a chaste wife . ibid. gods people have erred stom the very fundamentalls of visible worship . ibid sorts of spirituall foundations in the new testament . the fundamentalls of the christian religion . ibid. the comming out of babel not iocall , but mysticall . ibid. the great ignorance of gods people concerning the nature of a true church . ibid. common-prayer written against by the new english ministers . gods people have worshipped god with false worships . ibid. god is pleased sometimes to convey good unto his people beyond a promise . ibid. a notable speech of king james to a great nonconformist turned persecutor . civill peace discussed . ibid. the difference between spirituall and civill state . six cases wherein gods people have been usually accounted arrogant , and peace breakers , but most unjustly the true causes of breach and disturbance of civill peace . a preposterous way of suppressing errours . persecutors must needs oppresse both erroneous and true consciences . ibid. all persecutors of christ professe not to persecute him . ibid. what is meant by the hereticke . tit. . pag. the word heretick generally mistaken . corporall killing in the law , typing out spirituall killing in the gospell . the cariage of a soule sensible of mercy , towards others in their blindness , &c. the difference between the church , and the world wherein it is , in all places . the church and civill state confusedly made all one . the most peaceable accused for peace-breaking . a large examination of what is meant by the tares , and letting of them alone . ibid. sathans subtletic about the opening of scripture . two sorts of hypocrites , the lord iesus the great teacher by parables , and the only expounder of them . preaching for conversion is properly out of the church . the tares proved properly to signifie antichristians . ibid. gods kingdome on earth the visible church . the difference between the wheat and the tares , as also betweene these tares and all others . a civill magistracie from the beginning of the world . the tares are to be tolerated the longest of all sinners . the danger of infection by permitting of the tares , assoyled . ibid. the civill magistrate not so particularly spoken to in the new testament as fathers , masters , &c. and why . a two-fold state of christianitie ; persecuted under the romane emperours , and apostated under the romane popes . ibid. particulars contained in that prohibition of christ iesus concerning the tares , let them alone , mat. . accompanying with idolaters , cor. . discussed . civill magistrates never invested by christ iesus with the power and title of defenders of the faith. gods people ever earnest with god for an arme of flesh. the 〈◊〉 punishment of the blind pharises in respects . ibid. the point of seducing , infecting , or soule killing , examined . strange consusions in punishments . the blood of soules , acts . lies upon such as professe the ministrie : the blood of bodies only upon the state. ibid. ●surpers and true heires of christ iesus . page the civill magistrate bound to preserve the bo●●s of their subjects , and not to destroy them for conscience sake . the fire from heaven , rev. . . tim. . , . examined . the originall of the christian name , acts . a civill sword in religion makes a nation of hypocrites , isa. a difference of the true and false christ and christians . the nature of the worship of unbeleeving and naturall persons . ibid. antoninus pius his famous act concerning religion . isa. . mic. . . concerning christs visible kingdome discussed . ibid. acts . the suppressing of spirituall wolves discussed . it is in vaine to decline the name of the head of the church , and yet to practise the headship . titus . . discussed . vnmercifull and bloody doctrine . the spirituall weapons , cor. . . discussed . ibid. civill weapons most improper in spirituall causes . the spirituall artillerie , eph. . applied . rom. . concerning civill rulers power in spirituall causes , largely examined . pauls appeale to caesar examined . and cleared by arguments . ibid. sorts of swords . what is to be understood by evill , rom. . . though evill be alwayes evill , yet the permission of it may sometimes be good . sorts of commands both from moses and christ. the permission of diverce in israel , mat. . , . ibid. usury in the civill state lawfully permitted . seducing teachers , either pagan , iewish , turkish or antichristian , way yet be obedient subjects to the civill laws . scandalous livers against the civill state . toleration of jesabel and balaam , rev. . . examined . the christian world hath swallowed up christianity . christ iesus the deepest polititian that ever was , yet commands be a toleration of antichristians . the princes of the world seldome take part with christ iesus . buchanans items to king james . ibid. king james his sayings against persecution . ibid. king steven of poland his sayings against persecution . page forcing of conscience a soule rape . persecution for conscience hath been the launcet which hath let blood the nations . all spirituall whores are bloody ibid. poligamie or the many wives of the fathers . ibid. david advancing of gods worship against order . constantine and the good emperours confest to have done more hurt to the name and crowne of christ then the bloody noroes did . ibid. the language of persecuters . christs li●●ies may flourish in the church , notwithstanding the weeds in the world permitted . queen elizabeth and king james their persecuting for cause of religion examined . ibid. queen elizabeth confessed by mr. cotton to have almost fired the world in civill combustions . the wars between the papists and the protestants . ibid. the wars and successe of the waldensians against three popes . gods people victorious ●ver commers , and with what weapons . ibid. the christian church doth not persecute , but is persecuted . ibid. the nature of excommunication . the opinion of ancient writers examined concerning the doctrine of persecution . constraint upon conscience in old and new england . ibid. the indians of new england permitted in their worshipping of devils , in cases a false religion will not hurt . the absolute sufficiencie of the sword of the spirit . a nationall church not instituted by christ. ibid. man hath no power to make lawes , to binde conscience . hearing of the word in a church estate a part of gods worship . papists plea for toleration of conscience . ibid. protestant partiality in the cause of persecution . pills to purge out the bitter humour of persecution . ibid. superstition and persecution have had many votes and suffrages from gods owne people . soul-killing discussed . ibid. phineas his act discussed . eliah his slaughters examined . ibid dangerous consequences flowing from the civill magistrates power in spirituall cases . the world turned upside downe . page the wonderfull answer of the ministers of new england to the ministers of old. ibid. lamentable differences even amongst them that feare god. the doctrine of persecution ever drives the most godly out of the world a modell of church and civill power composed by mr. cotton , and the ministers of new england , and sent to salem , ( as a further confirmation of the bloody doctrine of persecution for cause of conscience ) examined and answered . christs power in the church confest to be above all magistrates in spirituall things . isa. . . lamentably wrested . ibid. the civill commonweale , and the spirituall commonweale the church not inconsistent , though independent the one on the other . christ ordinances put upon a whole city or nation may civilize them , and moralize , but not christianize before repentance first wrought . mr. cottons and the new english ministers confession that the magistrate hath neither civill nor spirituall power in soul matters . the magistrates and the church ( by mr. cottons grounds ) in one and the same cause made the iudges onthe bench , and delinquents at the bar. a demonstrative illustration that the magistrate cannot have power over the church in spirituall or church causes . the true way of the god of peace in differences between the church and the magistrate . . the tearms godlinesse and honesty explained , tim. . x. and honesty proved not to signifie in that place the righteousnes of the second table . the forcing of men to gods worship , the greatest breach of civill peace . the roman caesars of christs time described . ibid. it pleased not the lord iesus in the institution of the christian church to appoint and raise up any civill governours to take care of his worship . the true custodes utriusque tabulae , and keepers of the ordinances and worship of iesus christ. ibid. the kings of aegypt , moah , philistia , assyria , ni●●vch , were not charged with the worship of god , as the kings of iudah were . masters of families not charged under the gospel to force all the consci●uces of their families to worship . gods people have then shined brightest in godlines , when they have enjoyed least quietnesse . pag. . few magistrates , few men , spiritually good ; yet divers sorts of commendable goodnes beside spirituall . ibid. civill power originally and fundamentally in the people . mr. cotton and the new english give the power of christ into the hands of th● commonweale . lawes concerning religion , of two sorts . the very indians abhor to disturbe any conscience at worship . canons and constitutions pretended civill , but indeed ecclesiasticall . ibid. a threesold guilt lying upon civill powers , commanding the subjects soule in worship . persons may with lesse sinne be forced to marry whom they cannot love , then to worship where they cannot beleeve . ibid. as the cause , so the weapons of the beast and the la●● be are infinitely different . a●taxerxes his dicree examined . the summe of the examples of the gentile kings decrees concerning gods worship in scripture . the doctrine of putting to death blasphemers of christ , cuts off the hopes of the iewes partaking in his blood . ● the direfull effects of fighting for conscience . errour is confident as well as truth . spirituall prisons . some consciences not so easily healed and cured as men imagine . persecuters dispute with hereticks , as a tyrann call cat with the poore mouse : and with a true witnes , as a roaring lyon with an innocent lambe in his paw . persecuters endure not tho name of persecuters . psal concerning cutting off the wicked , examined . no difference of lands and countries , since christ iesus his comming . ib. the new english seperate in america , but not in europe . christ iesus forbidding his followers to permit leaven in the church , doth not forbid to permit leaven in the world. the wall ( cant. . . ) discussed . every religion commands its professors to heare only its own priests or ministers . ionah his preaching to the ninevites discussed . ●●aring of the word discussed . ibid. eglon his rising up to ehuds message , discussed . ibid. a two-fold ministrie of christ : first , apostolicall , properly converting , secondly , feeding or pastorall . pag. the new english forcing the people to church , and yet not to religion ( as they say ) forcing them to be of no religion all their dayes the civill state can no more lawfully compell the consciences of men to church to heare the word , then to receive the sacraments . no president in the word , of any people converting and baptizing themselves . true conversion to visible christianitie , is not only from sins against the second table , but from false worships also . ibid. the commission , mat. discussed . the civill magistrate not be trusted with that commission . ibid. iehosaphat , chron. ● . a figure of christ iesus in his church , not of the civill magistrate in the state. the maintenance of the ministrie , gal. . . examined . ibid. christ iesus never appointed a maintenance of the ministrie from the i●penitent and unbelieving . they that compell men to heare , compell them also to pay for their hearing and conversion . ibid. luc. . compell them to come in , examined . ibid. naturall men can neither truly worship nor mainteine it . the nationall church of the iewes might well be forced to a setled maintenance : but not so the christian church . the maintenance which christ hath appointed his ministrie in the church . the vniversities of europe causes of universall sins and plagues : yet schooles are honourable for tongues and arts. the true church is christs schoole , and believers his scholars . ibid. mr. ainsworth excellent in the tongues yet no vniversitie man. k. henry the . set down in the popes chaire in england . apocrypha , homilies , and common prayer precious to our forefathers . ib. reformation proved fallible . the president of the kings of israel & iudah largely examined . the persian kings example make strongly against the doctrine of persecution . . the difference of the hand of canaan from all lands and countries , in particulars . ibid. . the difference of the people of israel from all other peoples , in particulars . wonderfull turnings of religion in england in twelve yeares revolution . page the pope not unlike to recover his monarchy over europe , before his dow●fall . ibid. israel gods only church might well renew that nationall covenant and ceremoniall worship , which other nations cannot doe . ● the difference of the kings and governours of israel from all kings and governours of the world , in particulars . demonstrative arguments proving the unsoundnesse of the maxime , viz. the church and commonweale are li●e hypocrates twins . asacrilegious prostitution of the name christian. david immediately inspired by god in his ordering of church affairs . solomons deposing of ab●a●har , kings . , . discussed . the liberties of christs churches in the choice of her officers . a civill influence dangerous to the state liberties . ibid. jehosaphats fast examined . ibid. god will not wrong caesar , and caesar should not wrong god. the famous acts of josiah examined . ibid. magistracie in generall from god , the particular formes from the people . ibid. ● israel confirmed in a nationall covenant by revelations , signes and miracles , but not so any other land. ibid. kings and nations often plant and often plucke up religions . a nationall church ever subject to turne and returne . ibid. a woman , papissa , or head of the church . ibid. the rapists neerer to the truth , concerning the governour of the church , then most protestants . the kingly power of the lord iesus troubles all the kings and rulers of the world . ibid. a twofold exaltation of christ. ibid. a monarchicall and ministeriall power of christ. great competitours for the ministeriall power of christ. ibid. the pope pretendeth to the ministeriall power of christ , yet upon the point chalengeth the monarchicall also . ibid. great factions in england striving for the arme of flesh. the churches of the separation ought in humanity , and subjects liberty , not to be oppressed , but at least permitted . reasons proving that the kings of israel and iudah can have no other but a spirituall antitype . christianitie ●●des not to the nature of a civill commonweale ; nor doth want of christianitie diminish it . pag. most strange , yet most true consequences from the civill magistrates being the antitype of the kings of israel and iudah . ibid. if no religion but what the commonweale approve ; then no christ , no god , but at the pleasure of the world. the true antitype of the kings of israel and iudah . ibid. . the difference of israels statutes and lawes from all others in particulars . ibid. . the difference of israels punishments & rewards from all others . temporall prosperitie most proper to the nationall state of the iewe. ibid. the excommunication in israel . the corporall stoning in the law typed out spirituall stoning in the gospel . ibid. the wars of israel typicall and unparalleld , but by the spirituall wars of spirituall israel . ibid. the famous typicall captivitie of the iewes . their wonderfull victories . the mysticall army of white troopers . whether the civill state of israel was presidentiall . ibid. great unfaithfulnesse in magistrates to cast the burthen of judging and establishing christianitie upon the commonweale . thousands of lawfull civill magistrates , who never heare of iesus christ. nero and the persecuting emperours not so injurious to christianity , as constantine and others , who assumed a power in spirituall things ibid. they who force the conscience of others , cry out of persecution , when their owne are forced . constantine and others wanted not so much affection , as information of judgement . ibid. civill authoritie giving and lending their hornes to bishops dangerous to christs truth . ibid. the spirituall power of christ iesus , compared in scripture to the incomparable horne of the rhinocerot . the nursing fathers and mothers , isa. . ibid. the civill magistrate owes things to the true church of christ. the civill magistrate owes ● things to false worshippers . the rise of high commissions . pious magistrates & ministers consciences are perswaded for that , which other ●as plous magistrates & ministers consciences condemn . page an apt similitude discussed concerning the civill magistrate . a grievous charge against the christian church and the king of it . a strange law in new england formerly against excommunicate persons . ibid. a dangerous doctrine against all civill magistrates . originall sin charged to hurt the civill state . ibid. they who give the magistrate more then his duo , are apt to disreabe him of what is his . a strange double picture . the great priviledges of the true church of christ. similitudes illustrating the true power of the magistrate . ibid. a marvelous chalenge of more power under the christian , then under the heathen magistrate . civill magistrates , derivatives from the fountains or bodies of people . a beleeving magistrate no more a magistrate then an unbeleeving . ibid. the excellencie of christianity in all callings . ibid. the magistrate like a pilot in the ship of the commonweale . the tearmes heathen and christian magistrates . ibid. the unjust and partiall liberty to some consciences and bondage unto all others . the commission matth. . , . not proper to pastors and teachers least of all to the civill magistrate . vnto whom now belongs the care of all the churches , &c. ibid. acts . commonly misapplied the promise of christs presence mat. . distinct from that mat. . church administrations firstly charged upon the ministers thereof . queen elizabeths bishops truer to their principles then many of a better spirit and profession . . mr. barrowes profession concerning queen elizabeth . ibid the inventions of men swarving from the true essentialls of civill and spirituall commonweales . a great question viz. whether only church members , that is godly persons in a particular church estate , be only eligible into the magistracie . ib. the world being divided into parts , never heard of christ. lawfull civill states where churches of christ are not . ibid. few christians wise and noble and qualified for affaires of state. ibid. scriptures and reasons written long since by a witnesse of lesus christ , close prisoner in newgate , against persecution in cause of conscience ; and sent some while since to mr. cotton , by a friend who thus wrote : in the multitude of councellours there is safety : it is therefore humbly desired to be instructed in this point : viz. whether persecution for cause of conscience , be not against the doctrine of iesus christ the king of kings . the scriptures and reasons are these . because christ commandeth that the tares and wheat ( which some understand are those that walke in the truth , and those that walke in lies ) should be let alone in the world , and not plucked up untill the harvest , which is the end of the world , matth. . . . &c. the same commandeth matth. . . that they that are blinde ( as some interpret , led on in false religion , and are offended with him for teaching true religion ) should be let alone , referring their punishment unto their falling into the ditch . againe , luke . , . hee reproved his disciples who would have had fire come downe from heaven and devoure those samaritanes who would not receive him , in these words : ye know not of what spirit ye are , the son of man is not come to destroy mens lives , but to save them . paul the apostle of our lord teacheth , tim. . . that the servant of the lord must not strive , but must be gentle toward all men , suffering the evill men , instructing them with meeknesse that are contrary minded , proving if god at any time will give them repentanco , that they may acknowledge the truth , and come to amendment out of that snare of the devill , &c. according to these blessed commandements , the holy prophets foretold , that when the law of moses ( concerning worship ) should cease , and christs kingdome be established , esa. . . mic. . , they shall breake their swords into mathookes , and their speares into sithes . and esa. . . then shall none hurt or destroy in all the mountaine of my holinesse , &c. and when he came , the same he taught and practised , as before : so did his disciples after him , for the weapons of his warfare are not carnall ( saith the apostle ) cor. . but he chargeth straitly that his disciples should be so far from persecuting those that would not bee of their religion , that when they were persecuted they should pray ( matth. . ) when they were cursed they should blesse , &c. and the reason seemes to bee , because they who now are tares , may hereafter become wheat ; they who are now blinde , may hereafter see ; they that now resist him , may hereafter receive him ; they that are now in the devils snare , in adversenesse to the truth , may hereafter come to repentance ; they that are now blasphemers and persecutors ( as paul was ) may in time become faithfull as he ; they that are now idolators as the corinths once were ( cor. . . ) may hereafter become true worshippers as they ; they that are now no people of god , nor under mercy ( as the saints sometimes were , pet. . . ) may hereafter become the people of god , and obtaine mercy , as they . some come not till the . houre , matth. . . if those that come not till the last houre should be destroyed , because they come not at the first , then should they never come but be prevented . all which premises are in all humility referred to your godly wise consideration . because this persecution for cause of conscience is against the profession and practice of famous princes . first , you may please to consider the speech of king iames , in his majesties speech at parliament , . he saith , it is a sure rule in divinity , that god never loves to plant his church by violence and bloodshed . and in his highnesse apologie , pag. . speaking of such papists that tooke the oath , thus : i gave good proofe that i intended no persecution against them for conscience cause , but onely desired to bee secured for civill obedience , which for conscience cause they are bound to performe . and pag. . speaking of blackwell ( the arch-priest ) his majesty saith , it was never my intention to lay any thing to the said arch-priests charge ( as i have never done to any ) for cause of conscience . and in his highnesse exposition on revel . . printed . and after . his majesty writeth thus : sixthly , the compassing of the saints and the besieging of the beloved city , declareth unto us a certaine note of a false church , to be persecution , for they come to seeke the faithfull , the faithfull are them that are sought : the wicked are the besiegers , the faithfull are the besieged . secondly , the saying of stephen king of poland : i am king of men , not of consciences , a commander of bodies , not of soules . thirdly , the king of bohemia hath thus written : and notwithstanding the successe of the later times ( wherein sundry opinions have beene hatched about the subject of religion ) may make one clearly discerne with his eye , and as it were to touch with his finger , that according to the veritie of holy scriptures , and a maxime heretofore told and maintained , by the ancient doctors of the church ; that mens consciences ought in no sort to bee violated , urged , or constrained ; and whensoever men have attempted any thing by this violent course , whether openly or by secret meanes , the issue hath beene pernicious , and the cause of great and wonderfull innovations in the principallest and mightiest kingdomes and countries of all christendome . and further his majesty saith : so that once more we doe professe before god and the whole world , that from this time forward wee are firmly resolved not to persecute or molest , or suffer to be persecuted or molested , any person whosoever for matter of religion , no not they that professe themselves to be of the romish church , neither to trouble or disturbe them in the exercise of their religion , so they live conformable to the lawes of the states , &c. and for the practice of this , where is persecution for cause of conscience except in england and where popery reignes , and there neither in all places , as appeareth by france , poland , and other places . nay , it is not practised amongst the heathen that acknowledge not the true god , as the turke , persian , and others . thirdly , because persecution for cause of conscience is condemned by the ancient and later writers , yea and papists themselves . hilarie against auxentius saith thus : the christian church doth not persecute , but is persecuted . and lamentable it is to see the great folly of these times , and to sigh at the foolish opinion of this world , in that men thinke by humane aide to helpe god , and with worldly pompe and power to undertake to defend the christian church . i aske you bishops , what helpe used the apostles in the publishing of the gospel ? with the aid of what power did they preach christ , and converted the heathen from their idolatry to god ? when they were in prisons , and lay in chaines , did they praise and give thankes to god for any dignities , graces , and favours received from the court ? or do you thinke that paul went about with regall mandates , or kingly authority , to gather and establish the church of christ ? sought he protection from nero , vespasian ? the apostles wrought with their hands for their owne maintenance , travailing by land and water from towne to citie , to preach christ : yea the more they were forbidden , the more they taught and preached christ. but now alas , humane helpe must assist and protect the faith , and give the same countenance to and by vaine and worldly honours . doe men seek to defend the church of christ ? as if hee by his power were unable to performe it . the same against the arrians . the church now , which formerly by induring misery and imprisonment was knowne to be a true church , doth now terrifie others by imprisonment , banishment , and misery , and boasteth that she is highly esteemed of the world , when as the true church cannot but be hated of the same . tertull. ad scapulam : it agreeth both with humane reason , and naturall equity , that every man worship god uncompelled , and beleeve what he will ; for it neither hurteth nor profiteth any one another mans religion and beleefe : neither beseemeth it any religion to compell another to be of their religion , which willingly and freely should be imbraced , and not by constraint : for as much as the offerings were required of those that freely and with good will offered , and not from the contrary . ierom. in proaem . lib. . in ieremiam . heresie must be cut off with the sword of the spirit : let us strike through with the arrowes of the spirit all sonnes and disciples of mis-led heretickes , that is , with testimonies of holy scriptures . the slaughter of heretickes is by the word of god. brentius upon cor. . no man hath power to make or give lawes to christians , whereby to binde their consciences ; for willingly , freely , and uncompelled , with a ready desire and cheerfull minde , must those that come , run unto christ. luther in his booke of the civill magistrate saith ; the lawes of the civill magistrates government extends no further then over the body or goods , and to that which is externall : for over the soule god will not suffer any man to rule : onely he himselfe will rule there . wherefore whosoever doth undertake to give lawes unto the soules and consciences of men , he usurpeth that government himselfe which appertaineth unto god , &c. therefore upon kings . in the building of the temple there was no sound of iron heard , to signifie that christ will have in his church a free and a willing people , not compelled and constrained by lawes and statutes . againe he saith upon luk. . it is not the true catholike church , which is defended by the secular arme or humane power , but the false and feigned church , which although it carries the name of a church yet it den●es the power thereof . and upon psal. . he saith : for the true church of christ knoweth not brachium saeculare , which the bishops now adayes , chiefly use . againe , in postil . dom. . post epiphan . he saith : let not christians be commanded , but exhorted : for , he that willingly will not doe that , whereunto he is friendly exhorted , he is no christian : wherefore they that doe compell those that are not willing , shew thereby that they are not christian preachers , but worldly beadles . againe , upon pet. . he saith : if the civill magistrate shall command me to believe thus and thus : i should answer him after this manner : lord , or sir , looke you to your civill or worldly government . your power extends not so farre as to command any thing in gods kingdome : therefore herein i may not heare you . for if you cannot beare it , that any should usurpe authoritie where you have to command , how doe you thinke that god should suffer you to thrust him from his seat , and to seat your selfe therein ? lastly , the papists , the inventors of persecution , in a wicked booke of theirs set forth in k. iames his reigne , thus : moreover , the meanes which almighty god appointed his officers to use in the conversion of kingdomes and nations , and people , was humilitie , patience , charitie ; saying , behold i send you as sheepe in the midst of wolves , mat. . . he did not say , behold i send you as wolves among sheepe , to kill , imprison , spoile and devoure those unto whom they were sent . againe vers . . he saith : they to whom i send you , will deliver you up into councells , and in their synagogues they will scourge you ; and to presidents and to kings shall you be led for my sake . he doth not say : you whom i send , shall deliver the people ( whom you ought to convert ) unto councells , and put them in prisons , and lead them to presidents , and tribunall seates , and make their religion felony and treason . againe he saith , vers when ye enter into an house , salute it , saying , peace be unto this house : he doth not say , you shall send pursevants to ransack or spoile his house . againe he said , iohn . the good pastour giveth his life for his sheep , the thiefe commeth not but to steale , kill and destroy . he doth not say , the theefe giveth his life for his sheep , and the good pastour commeth not but to steale , kill and destroy . so that we holding our peace , our adversaries themselves speake for us , or rather for the truth . to answer some maine objections . and first , that it is no praejudice to the common wealth , if libertie of conscience were suffred to such as doe feare god indeed , as is or will be manifest in such mens lives and conversations . abraham abode among the canaanites a long time , yet contrary to them in religion , gen. . . & . . againe he so journed in gerar , and k. abimelech gave him leave to abide in his land , gen. . . . . isaack also dwelt in the same land , yet contrary in religion , gen. . iacob lived yeares in one house with his unkle laban , yet differed in religion , gen , . the people of israel were about yeares in that infamous land of egypt , and afterwards yeares in babylon , all which time they differed in religion from the states , exod. . & chron. . come to the time of christ , where israel was under the romanes , where lived divers sects of religion , as her●dians , scribes and pharises , saduces and libertines , thud●ans and samaritanes , beside the common religion of the iewes , christ and his apostles . all which differed from the common religion of the state , which was like the worship of diana , which almost the whole world then worshipped , acts . . all these lived under the government of caesar , being nothing hurtfull unto the common-wealth , giving unto caesar that which was his . and for their religion and consciences towards god , he left them to themselves , as having no dominion over their soules and consciences . and when the enemies of the truth raised up any tumults● the wisedome of the magistrate most wisely appeased them , acts . . & . . the answer of mr. iohn cotton of boston in new-england , to the aforesaid arguments against persecution for cause of consciene . professedly mainteining persecution for cause of conscience . the question which you put , is , whether persecution for cause of conscience , be not against the doctrine of iesus christ the king of kings . now by persecution for cause of conscience , i conceive you meane , either for professing some point of doctrine which you believe in conscience to be the truth , or for practising some worke which in conscience you believe to be a religious ' duty . now in points of doctrine some are fundamentall , without right beliefe whereof a man cannot be saved : others are circumstantiall or lesse principall , wherein men may differ in judgement , without prejudice of salvation on either part . in like sort , in points of practice , some concerne the waightier duties of the law , as , what god we worship , and with what kinde of worship ; whether such , as if it be right , fellowship with god is held ; if corrupt , fellowship with him is lost . againe , in points of doctrine and worship lesse principall : either they are held forth in a meeke and peaceable way , though the things be erroneous or unlawfull ● or they are held forth with such arrogance and impetuousnesse , as tendeth and reacheth ( even of it selfe ) to the disturbance of civill peace . finally , let me adde this one distinction more : when we are persecuted for conscience sake , it is either for conscience rightly informed , or for erronious and blind conscience . these things premised , i would lay down mine answer to the question in certaine conclusions . first , it is not lawfull to persecute any for conscience sake rightly informed ; for in persecuting such , christ himselfe is persecuted in them , acts . . secondly , for an erronious and blind conscience , ( even in fundamentall and weighty points ) it is not lawfull to persecute any , till after admonition once or twice ● and so the apostle directeth , it . . . and giveth the reason , that in fundamentall and principall points of doctrine or worship , the word of god in such things is so cleare , that hee cannot but bee convinced in conscience of the dangerous errour of his way , after once or twice admonition , wisely and faithfully dispensed . and then if any one persist , it is not out of conscience , but against his conscience , at the apostle saith vers . . he is subverted and sinneth , being condemned of himselfe , that is , of his owne conscience . so that if such a man after such admonition shall still persist in the errour of his way , and be therefore punished ; he is not persecuted for cause of conscience , but for sinning against his owne conscience . thirdly , in things of lesser moment , whether points of doctrine or worship , if a man hold them forth in a spirit of christian meeknesse and love ( though with zeale and constancie ) he is not to be persecuted , but tolerated , till god may be pleased to manifest his truth to him , phil. . . rom. . , , , . but if a man hold forth or professe any errour or false way , with a boysterous and arrogant spirit , to the disturbance of civill peace , he may justly be punished according to the qualitie and measure of the disturbance caused by him . now let us consider of your reasons or objections to the contrary . your first head of objections is taken from the scripture . object . . because christ commandeth to let alone the tares and wheat to grow together unto the harvest , mat. . . . answ. tares are not briars and thornes , but partly hypocrites , like unto the godly , but indeed carnall , as the tares are like to wheat , but are not wheat . or partly such corrupt doctrines or practices as are indeed unsound , but yet such as come very neere the truth , ( as tares doe to the wheat ) and so neere , that good men may be taken with them , and so the persons in whom they grow , cannot be rooted out , but good will be rooted up with them . and in such a case christ calleth for toleration , not for penall prosecution , according to the . conclusion . object . . in math. . . christ commandeth his disciples to let the blind alone till they fall into the ditch ; therefore he would have their punishment deferred till their ●●all destruction . answ. he there speaketh not to publi●●e officers , whether in church or common-weale , but to his private disciples , concerning the pharises , over whom they had no power . and the command he giveth to let them alone , is spoken in regard of troubling themselves or regarding the offence , which they tooke at the wholesome doctrine of the gospell : as who should say , though they be offended at this saying of mine , yet doe not you feare their feare , nor bee troubled at their offence , which they take at my doctrine , not out of sound judgement , but out of their blindnesse . but this maketh nothing to the cause in hand . ob. in luk. . . . christ reproveth his disciples , who would have had fire come downe from heaven to consume the samaritanes , who refused to receive him. obj. and paul teacheth timothy , not to strive , but to be gentle towards all men , suffering evill patiently . answ. both these are directions to ministers of the gospell how to deale ( not with obstinate offenders in the church , that sinne against conscience , but ) either with men without , as the samaritanes were , and many unconverted christians in crete , whom titus ( as an evangelish ) was to seeke to convert : or at best with some iewes or gentiles in the church , who though carnall , yet were not convinced of the errour of their way : and 't is true , it became not the spirit of the gospell to convert aliens to the faith of christ ( such as the samaritanes were ) by fire and brimstone ; nor to deale harshly in publique ministerie or private conference with all such contrary minded men , as either had not yet entred into church-fellowship , or if they had , yet did hitherto sinne of ignorance , not against conscience . but neither of both these texts doe hinder the ministers of the gospell to proceed in a church-way against chruch-members , when they become scandalous offenders , either in life or doctrine : much lesse doe they speake at all to civill magistrates . ob. . from the prediction of the prophets , who foretold that carnall weapons should cease in the dayes of the gospell , isa. . . & . . mic. . . . and the apostie professeth , the weapons of our warfare are not carnall , cor , . . and christ is so farre from persecuting those that would not be of his religion , that he chargeth them , when they are persecuted themselves , they should pray , and when they are cursed they should blesse the reason whereof seemeth to be , that they who are now persecuters and wicked persons , may become true disciples and converts . answ. those predictions in the prophets doe onely shew , first , with what kind of weapons he will subdue the nations to the obedience of the faith of the gospell , not by fire and sword , and weapons of warre , but by the power of his word and spirit , which no man doubteth of . secondly , those predictions of the prophets shew what the meeke and peaceable temper will be of all the true converts to christianity , not lions or leopards , &c. not cruell oppressors , nor malignant opposers , or biters of one another . but doth not forbid them to drive ravenous wolves from the sheepfold , and to restraine them from devouring the sheepe of christ. and when paul saith , the weapons of our warfare are not carnall but spirituall , he denyeth not civill weapons of iustice to the civill magistrate , rom. . but onely to church officers . and yet the weapons of such officers he acknowledgeth to be such , as though they be spirituall , yet are ready to take vengeance of all disobedience , cor. . . which hath reference ( amongst other ordinances ) to the censure of the church against scandalous offenders . when christ commandeth his disciples to blesse them that curse them and persecute them , he giveth not therein a rule to publick officers , whether in church or commonweale , to suffer notorious sinners , either in life or doctrine , to passe away with a blessing : but to private christians to suffer persecution patiently , yea and to pray for their persecutors . againe , it is true , christ would have his disciples to bee farre from persecuting ( for that is a sinfull oppression of men for righteousnesse sake ) but that hindreth not but that he would have them execute upon all disobedience the judgement and vengeance required in the word , cor. . . rom. . . though it be true that wicked persons now may by the grace of god become true disciples and converts , yet we may not doe evill that good may come thereof : and evill it would bee to tolerate notorious evill doers , whether seducing teachers , or scandalous livers . christ had something against the angel of the church of pergamus for tolerating them that held the doctrine of balaam , and against the church of thiatira for tolerating iesabel to teach and seduce , rev. . . . your second head of reasons is taken from the profession and practice of famous princes , king iames , stephen of poland , king of bohemia . whereunto a treble answer may briefly be returned . first , we willingly acknowledge , that none is to be persecuted at all , no more then they may be oppressed for righteousnesse sake . againe , we acknowledge that none is to be punished for his conscience , though mis-informed , as hath been said , unlesse his errour be fundamentall , or seditiously and turbulently promoted , and that after due conviction of his conscience , that it may appeare he is not punished for his conscience , but for sinning against his conscience . furthermore , we acknowledge none is to be constrained to beleeve or professe the true religion till he be convinced in judgement of the truth of it : but yet restrained he may from blaspheming the truth , and from seducing any unto pernicious errours . . wee answer , what princes professe or practise , is not a rule of conscience : they many times tolerate that in point of state policy , which cannot justly be tolerated in point of true christianity . againe , princes many times tolerate offendours out of very necessity , when the offenders are either too many , or too mighty for them to punish , in which respect david tolerated ioab and his murthers , but against his will. . we answer further , that for those three princes named by you , who tolerated religion , we can name you more and greater who have not tolerated heretickes and schismatickes , notwithstanding their pretence of conscience , and arrogating the crowne of martyrdome to their sufferings . constantine the great at the request of the generall councell of nice , banished arrius with some of his fellowes . sozom. lib. . eccles. hist. cap. . . the same constantine made a severe law against the donatists . and the like proceedings against them were used by valentinian , gratian , and theodosius , as augustine reporteth in epist. . only iulian the apostata granted liberty to heretickes as well as to pagans , that he might by tolerating all weeds to grow , choake the vitals of christianity , which was also the practice and sin of valens the arrian . queene elizabeth , as famous for her government as any of the former , it is well knowne what lawes she made and executed against papists . yea and king iames ( one of your own witnesses ) though he was slow in proceeding against papists ( as you say ) for conscience sake , yet you are not ignorant how sharply and severely he punished those whom the malignant world calleth puritanes , men of more conscience and better faith then he tolerated . i come now to your third and last argument , taken from the judgement of ancient and later writers , yea even of papists themselves , who have condemned persecution for conscience sake . you begin with hilary , whose testimony we might admit without any prejudice to the truth : for it is true , the christian church doth not persecute , but is persecuted . but to excommunicate an hereticke , is not to persecute ; that is , it is not to punish an innocent , but a culpable and damnable person , and that not for conscience , but for persisting in errour against light of conscience , whereof it hath beene convinced . it is true also what he saith , that neither the apostles did , not may we propagate christian religion by the sword : but if pagans cannot be won by the word , they are not to be compelled by the sword. neverthelesse this hindreth not , but if they or any others should blaspheme the true god , and his true religion , they ought to be severely punished ; and no lesse doe they deserve , if they seduce from the truth to damnable heresie or idolatry . your next writer ( which is tertullian ) speaketh to the same purpose in the place alledged by you . his intent is onely to restraine scapula the romane governour of africa from the persecution of christians , for not offering sacrifice to their gods : and for that end fetcheth an argument from the law of naturall equity , not to compell any to any religion , but to permit them either to beleeve willingly , or not to beleeve at all . which wee acknowledge , and accordingly permit the indians to continue in their unbeleefe . neverthelesse it will not therefore be lawfull openly to tolerate the worship of devils or idols , or the seduction of any from the truth . when tertullian saith , another mans religion neither hurteth nor profiteth any ; it must be understood of private worship and religion professed in private : otherwise a false religion professed by the members of a church , or by such as have given their names to christ , will be the ruine and desolation of the church , as appeareth by the threats of christ to the churches of asia , revel . . your next authour hierom crosseth not the truth , nor advantageth not your cause : for we grant what he saith , that heresie must bee cut off with the sword of the spirit . but this hindreth not , but that being so cut downe , if the hereticke still persist in his heresie , to the seduction of others , he may be cut off by the civill sword , to prevent the perdition of others . and that to bee hieromes meaning appeareth by his note upon that of the apostle , [ a little leaven leaveneth the whole lumpe ] therefore ( saith he ) a sparke as soone as it appeareth , is to be extinguished , and the leaven to be removed from the rest of the dough , rotten peeces of flesh are to be cut off , and a scabbed beast is to be driven from the 〈◊〉 le●t the whole house , masse of dough , body and flocke , be set on fire with the sparke , bee sowred with the leaven , be putrified with the rotten flesh , perish by the scabbed beast . brentius ( whom you next quote ) speaketh not to your cause . we willingly grant him and you , that man hath no power to make lawes , to bind conscience . but this hindreth not , but that men may see the lawes of god observed , which doe bind conscience . the like answer may be returned to luther , whom you next alleadge . first , that the government of the civill magistrate extendeth no further then over the bodies and goods of their subjects , not over their soules : and therefore they may not undertake to give lawes to the soules and consciences of men. secondly , that the church of christ doth not use the arme of secular power to compell men to the faith , or profession of the truth ; for this is to be done by spirituall weapons , whereby christians are to be exhorted , not compelled . but this hundreth not that christians sinning against light of faith and conscience , may justly be censured by the church with excommunication , and by the civill sword also , in case they shall corrupt others to the perdition of their soules . as for the testimony of the popish book , we weigh it not , as knowing ( whatsoever they speake for toleration of religion , where themselves are under hatches ) when they come to sit at sterne , they judge and practise quite contrary , as both their writings and iudiciall proceedings have testified to the world these many yeares . to shut up this argument from testimonie of writers . it is well known , augustine retracted this opinion of yours , which in his younger times he had held , but in after riper age reversed and refuted , as appeareth in the second book of his retractations , chap. . and in his epistles . . and in his . book against parmenianus , cap. . he sheweth , that if the donatists were punished with death , they were justly punished . and in his tractate upon iohn , they murther , saith he , soules , and themselves are afflicted in body : they put men to everlasting death , and yet they complaine when themselves are put to suffer temporall death . optatus in his . book , justifieth macharius , who had put some hereticks to death ; that he had done no more herein then what moses , phincas , and elias had done before him . bernard in his sermon in cantica : out of doubt ( saith he ) it is better that they should be restrained by the sword of him , who beareth not the sword in vaine , then that they should be suffred to draw many others into their errour . for he is the minister of god for wrath to every evill doer . calvins judgement is well knowne , who procured the death of michael servetus for pertinacie in heresie , and defended his fact by a book written of that argument . beza also wrote a booke de haereticis morte plectendis , that hereticks are to be punished with death . aretius likewise tooke the like course about the death of valentinus gentilis , and justified the magistrates proceeding against him , in an history written of that argument . finally , you come to answer some maine objections , as you call them , which yet are but one , and that one objecteth nothing against what we hold . it is ( say you ) no prejudice to the common-wealth , if libertie of conscience were suffred to such as feare god indeed , which you prove by the examples of the patriarchs and others . but we readily grant you , libertie of conscience is to be granted to men that feare god indeed , as knowing they will not persist in heresie , or turbulent schisme , when they are convinced in conscience of the sinfulnesse thereof . but the question is , whether an heretick after once or twice admonition ( and so after conviction ) or any other scandalous and heynous offender , may be tolerated , either in the church without excommunication , or in the common-wealth without such punishment as may preserve others from dangerous and damnable infection . thus much i thought needfull to be spoken , for avoyding the grounds of your errour . i forbeare adding reasons to justifie the truth , because you may finde that done to your hand , in a treatise sent to some of the brethren late of salem , who doubted as you doe . the lord jesus lead you by a spirit of truth into all truth , through jesus christ. a reply to the aforesaid answer of mr. cotton . in a conference betweene trvth and peace . chap. i. truth . in what darke corner of the world ( sweet peace ) are we two met ? how hath this present evill world banished me from all the coasts & quarters of it ? and how hath the righteous god in judgement taken thee from the earth , rev. . . peace . 't is lamentably true ( blessed truth ) the foundations of the world have long been out of course : the gates of earth and hell have conspired together to intercept our joyfull meeting and our holy kisses : with what a wearied , tyred wing have i flowne over nations , kingdomes , cities , townes , to finde out precious truth ? truth . the like enquiries in my flights and travells have i made for peace , and still am told , she hath left the earth , and fled to heaven . peace . deare truth , what is the earth but a dungeon of darknesse , where truth is not ? truth . and what 's the peace thereof but a fleeting dreame , thine ape and counterfeit ? peace . o where 's the promise of the god of heaven , that righteousnes and peace shall kisse each other ? truth . patience ( sweet peace ) these heavens and earth are growing old , and shall be changed like a garment , psal. . they shall melt away , and be burnt up with all the works that are therein ; and the most high eternall creatour , shall gloriously create new heavens and new earth , wherein dwells righteousnesse , pet. . our kisses then shall have their endlesse date of pure and sweetest ioyes ? till then both thou and i must hope , and wait , and beare the furie of the dragons wrath , whose monstrous lies and furies shall with himselfe be cast into the lake of fire , the second death , revel . . peace . most precious truth , thou knowest we are both pursued and laid for : mine heart is full of sighes , mine eyes with teares : where can i better vent my full oppressed bosome , then into thine , whose faithfull lips may for these few houres revive my drooping wandring spirits , and here begin to wipe teares from mine eyes , and the eyes of my dearest children ? truth . sweet daughter of the god of peace , begin ; powre out thy sorrowes , vent thy complaints : how joyfull am i to improve these precious minutes to revive our hearts , both thine and mine , and the hearts of all that love the truth and peace , zach. . peace . deare truth , i know thy birth , thy nature , thy delight . they that know thee , will prize thee farre above themselves and lives , and sell themselves to buy thee . well spake that famous elizabeth to her famous attorney sir edward coke : mr. attourney , goe on as thou hast begun , and still plead , not pro domina regina , but pro domina veritate . truth . 't is true , my crowne is high , my scepter 's strong to breake down strongest holds , to throw down highest crownes of all that plead ( though but in thought ) against me . some few there are , but oh how few are valiant for the truth , and dare to plead my cause , as my witnesses in sack-cloth , revel . . while all mens tongues are bent like bowes to shoot out lying words against me ! peace . o how could i spend eternall dayes and endlesse dates at thy holy feet , in listning to the precious oracles of thy mouth ! all the words of thy mouth are truth , and there is no iniquity in them ; thy lips drop as the hony-combe . but oh ! since we must part anon , let us ( as thou saidst ) improve our minutes , and ( according as thou promisedst ) revive me with thy words , which are sweeter then the honey , and the honey-combe . chap. ii. deare truth , i have two sad complaints : first , the most sober of thy witnesses , that dare to plead thy cause , how are they charged to be mine enemies , contentious , tarbulent , seditious ? secondly , thine enemies , though they speake and raile against thee , though they outragiously pursue , imprison , banish , kill thy faithfull witnesses , yet how is all ve●illion'd o're for iustice 'gainst the hereticks ? yea , if they 〈◊〉 and blow the 〈◊〉 of devouring warres , that leave neither spirituall nor civill state , but burns up branch and root , yet how doe all pretend an holy war ? he that kills , and hee that 's killed , they both cry out , it is for god , and for their conscience . t is true , nor one nor other seldome dare to plead the mighty prince christ iesus for their authour , yet both ( both protestant and papist ) pretend they have spoke with moses and the prophets , who all , say they ( before christ came ) allowed such holy persecutions , holy warres against the enemies of holy church . truth . deare peace ( to ease thy first complaint ) t is true , thy dearest sons , most like their mother , peace-keeping , peace-making sons of god , have borne and still must beare the blurs of troublers of israel , and turners of the world upside downe . and t is true againe , what salomon once spake : the beginning of strife is as when one letteth out water , therefore ( saith he ) leave off contention before it be medled with . this caveat should keepe the bankes and sluces firme and strong , that strife , like a breach of waters , breake not in upon the sons of men . yet strife must be distinguished : it is necessary or unnecessary , godly or ungodly , christian or unchristian , &c. it is unnecessary , unlawfull , dishonourable , ungodly , unchristian , in most cases in the world , for there is a possibility of keeping sweet peace in most cases , and if it be possible , it is the expresse command of god that peace be kept , rom. . againe , it is necessary , honourable , godly , &c. with civill and earthly weapons to defend the innocent , and to rescue the oppressed from the violent pawes and jaws of oppressing persecuting nimrods , psal. . iob . it is as necessary , yea more honourable , godly , and christian , to ●ight the ●ight of faith , with religious and spirituall artillery , and to contend earnestly for the faith of iesus , once delivered to the saints against all opposers , and the gates of earth and hell , men or devils , yea against paul himselfe , or an angell from heaven , if he bring any other faith or doctrine , iude vers . . gal. . . peace . with the clashing of such armes am i never wakened . speake once againe ( deare truth ) to my second complaint of bloody persecution , and devouring wars , marching under the colours of upright iustice , and holy zeale , &c. truth . mine eares have long beene filled with a threefold dolefull outcry . first , of one hundred forty foure thousand virgins ( rev. ) forc'd and ravisht by emperours , kings , and governours to their beds of worship and religion , set up ( like absalems ) on high in their severall states and countries . secondly , the cry of those precious soules under the altar ( rev. . ) the soules of such as have beene persecuted and slaine for the testimony and witnesse of iesus , whose bloud hath beene spilt like water upon the earth , and that because they have held fast the truth and witnesse of iesus , against the worship of the states and times , compelling to an uniformity of state religion . these cries of murthered virgins who can sit still and heare ? who can but run with zeale inflamed to prevent the destowring of chaste soules , and spilling of the bloud of the innocent ? humanity stirs up and prompts the sonnes of men to draw materiall swords for a virgins chastity and life , against a ravishing murtherer ? and piety and christianity must needs awaken the sons of god to draw the spirituall sword ( the word of god ) to preserve the chastity and life of spirituall virgins , who abhorre the spirituall defilements of false worship , rev. . thirdly , the cry of the whole earth , made drunke with the bloud of its inhabitants , slaughtering each other in their blinded zeale , for conscience , for religion , against the catholickes , against the lutherans , &c. what fearfull cries within these twenty years of hundred thousands men , women , children , fathers , mothers , husbands , wives , brethren , sisters , old and young , high and low , plundred , ravished , slaughtered , murthered , famished ? and hence these cries , that men ●ling away the spirituall sword and spirituall artillery ( in spirituall and religious causes ) and rather trust for the suppressing of each others god , conscience , and religion ( as they suppose ) to an arme of flesh , and sword of steele ? truth . sweet peace , what hast thou there ? peace . arguments against persecution for cause of conscience . truth . and what there ? peace . an answer to such arguments , contrarily maintaining such persecution for cause of conscience . truth . these arguments against such persecution , and the answer pleading for it , written ( as love hopes ) from godly intentions , hearts , and hands , yet in a marvellous different stile and manner . the arguments against persecution in milke , the answer for it ( as i may say ) in bloud . the authour of these arguments ( against persecution ) ( as i have beene informed ) being committed by som then in power , close prisoner to newgate , for the witnesse of some truths of iesus , and having not the use of pen and inke , wrote these arguments in milke , in sheets of paper , brought to him by the woman his keeper , from a friend in london , as the stopples of his milk bottle . in such paper written with milk nothing will appeare , but the way of reading it by fire being knowne to this friend who received the papers , he transcribed and kept together the papers , although the author himselfe could not correct , nor view what himselfe had written . it was in milke , tending to soule nourishment , even for babes and sucklings in christ. it was in milke , spiritually white , pure and innocent , like those white horses of the word of truth and meeknesse , and the white linnen or armour of righteousnesse , in the army of iesus . rev. . & . it was in milke , soft , meeke , peaceable and gentle , tending both to the peace of soules , and the peace of states and kingdomes . peace . the answer ( though i hope out of milkie pure intentions ) is returned in bloud : bloudy & slaughterous conclusions ; bloudy to the souls of all men , forc'd to the religion and worship which every civil state or common-weale agrees on , and compells all subjects to in a dissembled uniformitie . bloudy to the bodies , first of the holy witnesses of christ iesus , who testifie against such invented worships . secondly , of the nations and peoples slaughtering each other for their severall respective religions and consciences . chap. iii. truth . in the answer mr. cotton first layes downe severall distinctions and conclusions of his owne , tending to prove persecution . secondly , answers to the scriptures , and arguments proposed against persecution . peace . the first distinction is this : by persecution for cause of conscience , i conceive you meane either for professing some point of doctrine which you beleeve in conscience to be the truth , or for practising some worke which you beleeve in conscience to be a religious dutie . truth . i acknowledge that to molest any person , iew or gentile , for either professing doctrine , or practising worship meerly religious or spirituall , it is to persecute him , and such a person ( what ever his doctrine or practice be true or false ) suffereth persecution for conscience . but withall i desire it may bee well observed , that this distinction is not full and complete : for beside this that a man may be persecuted because he holdeth or practiseth what he beleeves in conscience to be a truth , ( as daniel did , for which he was cast into the lyons den . dan. . ) and many thousands of christians , because they durst not cease to preach and practise what they beleeved was by go● commanded , as the apostles answered ( acts & . ) i say besides this a man may also be persecuted , because hee dares not be constrained to yeeld obedience to such doctrines and worships as are by men invented and appointed . so the three famous iewes were cast into the fiery furnace for refusing to fall downe ( in a non-conformity to the whole conforming world ) before the golden image , dan. . . so thousands of christs witnesses ( and of late in those bloudy marian dayes ) have rather chose to yeeld their bodies to all sorts of torments , then to subscribe to doctrines , or practise worships , unto which the states and times ( as nabuchadnezzar to his golden image ) have compelled and urged them . a chaste wife will not onely abhorre to be restrained from her husbands bed , as adulterous and polluted , but also abhor ( if not much more ) to bee constrained to the bed of a stranger . and what is abominable in corporall , is much more loathsome in spirituall whoredome and defilement . the spouse of christ iesus who could not finde her soules beloved in the wayes of his worship and ministery , ( cant. . . and . chapters ) abhorred to turne aside to other flockes , worships , &c. and to imbrace the bosome of a false christ , cant. . . chap. iv. peace . the second distinction is this . in points of doctrine some are fundamentall , without right beleefe whereof a man cannot be saved : others are circumstantiall and lesse principall , wherein a man may differ in judgement without prejudice of salvation on either part . truth . to this distinction i dare not subscribe , for then i should everlastingly condemne thousands , and ten thousands , yea the whole generation of the righteous , who since the falling away ( from the first primitive christian state or worship ) have and doe erre fundamentally concerning the true matter , constitution , gathering and governing of the church : and yet farre be it from any pious breast to imagine that they are not saved , and that their soules are not bound up in the bundle of eternall life . we reade of foure sorts of spirituall or christian foundations in the new testaments . first , the foundation of all foundations , the corner-stone it selfe , the lord iesus , on whom all depend , persons , doctrines , practices , . cor. . . ministriall foundations . the church is built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets , ephel . . . . the foundation of future rejoycing in the fruits of obedience , tim. . . the foundation of doctrines , without the knowledge of which , there can be no true profession of christ , according to the first institution , heb. . the foundation or principles of repentance from dead works , faith towards god , the doctrine of baptisme , laying on of hands , the resurrection , and eternall iudgement . in some of these , to wit , those concerning baptismes , & laying on of hands , gods people will be found to be ignorant for many hundred yeares : and i yet cannot see it proved that light is risen , i mean the light of the first institution , in practice . gods people in their persons , heart-waking ( cant. . . ) in the life of personall grace , will yet be found fast asleep in respect of publike christian worship . gods people ( in their persons ) are his , most deare and precious : yet in respect of the christian worship they are mingled amongst the babylonians , from whence they are called to come out , not locally ( as some have said ) for that belonged to a materiall and locall babell , ( and , literall babell and ierusalem have now no difference , iohn . . ) but spiritually and mystically to come out from her sins and abominations . if mr. cotton maintaine the true church of christ to consist of the true matter of holy persons call'd out from the world ; and the true forme of vnion in a church covenant ; and that also , neither nationall , provinciall , nor diocesan churches are of christs institution : how many thousands of gods people of all sorts , ( clergie and laitie , as they call them ) will they finde both in former and later times , captivated in such nationall , provinciall , and diocesan churches ? yea and so far from living in , yea or knowing of any such churches ( for matter and forme ) as they conceive now only to be true , that untill of late yeares , how few of gods people knew any other church then the parish church of dead stones or timber ? it being a late marvailous light revealed by christ iesus the sun of righteousnesse , that his people are a company or church of living stones , pet. . and however his own soule , and the soules of many others ( precious to god ) are perswaded to separate from nationall , provinciall , and diocesan churches , and to assemble into particular churches : yet since there are no parish churches in england , but what are made up of the parish bounds within such and such a compasse of houses ; and that such churches have beene and are in constant dependance on , and subordination to the nationall church : how can the new-english particular churches joyne with the old english parish churches in so many ordinances of word , prayer , singing , contribution , &c. but they must needs confesse , that as yet their soules are farre from the knowledge of the foundation of a true christian church , whose matter must not only be living stones , but also separated from the rubbish of antichristian confusions and desolations . chap. v. peace . with lamentation i may adde : how can their soules be cleare in this foundation of the true christian matter , who persecute and oppresse their own ( acknowledged ) brethren presenting light unto them about this point ? but i shall now present you with mr. cottons third distinction . in point of practice ( saith he ) some concerne the weightier duties of the law , as , what god we worship , and with what kind of worship : whether such , as if it be right , fellowship with god is held ; if false , fellowship with god is lost . truth . it is worth the inquirie , what kind of worship he intendeth ; for worship is of various signification : whether in generall acceptation he meane the rightnesse or corruptnesse of the church , or the ministry of the church , or the ministrations of the word , prayer , seales , &c. and because it pleaseth the spirit of god to make the ministry one of the foundations of the christian religion , ( heb. . . ) and also to make the ministrie of the word and prayer in the church , to be two speciall works ( even of the apostles themselves ) acts . . i shall desire it may be well considered in the feare of god. first , concerning the ministery of the word ; the new-english ministers , when they were new elected & ordained ministers in new englād , must undeniably grant , that at that time they were no ministers , notwithstanding their profession of standing so long in a true ministry in old england , whether received from the bishops ( which some have maintained true ) or from the people , which mr. cotton & others better liked , and which ministrie was alwayes accounted perpetuall and indelible : i apply , and aske , will it not follow , that if their new ministry and ordination be true , the former was false ? and if false , that in the exercise of it ( notwithstanding abilities , graces , intentions , labours , and ( by gods gracious , unpromised , & extraordinary blessing ) some successe ) i say , will it not according to this distinction follow , that according to visible rule , fellowship with god was lost ? secondly , concerning prayer ; the new english ministers have disclaimed and written against that worshipping of god by the common or set formes of prayer , which yet themselves practised in england , notwithstanding they knew that many servants of god in great sufferings witnessed against such a ministrie of the word , and such a ministrie of prayer . peace . i could name the persons , time and place , when some of them were faithfully admonished for using of the common prayer , and the arguments presented to them , then seeming weake , but now acknowledged sound : yet at that time they satisfied their hearts with the practice of the author of the councell of trent , who used to read only some of the choicest selected prayers in the masse-booke , ( which i confesse was also their own practice in their using of the common-prayer . ) but now according to this distinction , i ask whether or no fellowship with god in such prayers was lost . truth . i could particularize other exercises of worship , which cannot be denied ( according to this distinction ) to be of the waightier points of the law , to wit , [ what god we worship , and with what kind of worship : ] wherein fellowship with god ( in many of our unclean and abominable worships ) hath been lost . only upon these premises i shall observe . first , that gods people , even the standard-bearers and leaders of them ( according to this distinction ) have worshipped god ( in their sleepy ignorance ) by such a kind of worship , as wherein fellowship with god is lost ; yea also this it is possible for them to do , after much light is risen against such worship , and in particular , brought to the eyes of such holy and worthy persons . secondly , there may be inward and secret fellowship with god in false ministeries of word and prayer , ( for that to the eternall prayse of infinite mercy beyond a word or promise of god i acknowledge ) when yet ( as the distinction saith ) in such worship ( not being right ) fellowship with god is lost , and such a service or ministration must be lamented and forsaken . thirdly , i observe that gods people may live and die in such kindes of worship , notwithstanding that light from god publikely and privately , hath beene presented to them , able to convince : yet not reaching to their conviction and forsaking of such wayes , contrary to a conclusion afterward exprest , to wit , [ that fundamentals are so cleere , that a man cannot but be convinced in conscience , and therefore that such a person not being convinced , he is condemned of himselfe , and may be persecuted for sinning against his conscience . ] fourthly , i observe that in such a maintaining a clearnesse of fundamentals or waightier points , and upon that ground a persecuting of men , because they sinne against their consciences , mr. cotton measures that to others , which himselfe when he lived in such practices , would not have had measured to himselfe . as first , that it might have beene affirmed of him , that in such practices he did sinne against his conscience , having sufficient light shining about him . secondly , that hee should or might lawfully have beene cut off by death or banishment , as an hereticke , sinning against his owne conscience . and in this respect the speech of king iames was notable to a great non-conformitant converted ( as is said by king iames ) to conformity , and counselling the king afterward to persecute the non-conformists ev●n unto death : thou beast ( quoth the king ) if i had dealt so with thee in thy non-conformity , where hadst thou beene ? chap. vi. peace . the next distinction concerning the manner of persons holding forth the aforesaid practices ( not onely the waightier duties of the law , but points of doctrine and worship lesse principall . ) some ( saith he ) hold them forth in a meeke and peaceable way : some with such arrogance and impetuousnesse , as of it selfe tendeth to the disturbance of civill peace . truth . in the examination of this distinction we shall discusse , first , what is civill peace , ( wherein we shall vindicate thy name the better . ) secondly , what it is to hold forth a doctrine or practice in this impetuousnesse or arrogancy . first , for civill peace , what is it but pax civitatis , the peace of the citie , whether an english city , scotch , or irish citie , or further abroad , french , spanish , turkish city , &c. thus it pleased the father of lights to define it , iorem. . . pray for the peace of the city ; which peace of the city , or citizens , so compacted in a civill way of union , may be intire , unbroken , safe , &c. notwithstanding so many thousands of gods people the iewes , were there in bondage , and would neither be constrained to the worship of the citie babell , nor restrained from so much of the worship of the true god , as they then could practice , as in plaine in the practice of the worthies , shadrach , misach , and abednego , as also of daniel , dan. . & dan. . ( the peace of the city or kingdome , being a far different peace from the peace of the religion or spirituall worship , maintained & professed of the citizens . this peace of their worship ( which worship also in some cities being various ) being a false peace , gods people were and ought to be nonconformitants , not daring either to be restrained from the true , or constrained to false worship , and yet without breach of the civill or citie-peace , properly so called . peace . hence it is that so many glorious and flourishing cities of the world maintaine their civill peace , yea the very americans & wildest pagans keep the peace of their towns or cities ; though neither in one nor the other can any man prove a true church of god in those places , and consequently no spirituall and heavenly peace : the peace spirituall ( whether true or false ) being of a higher and farre different nature from the peace of the place or people , being meerly and essentially civill and humane . truth . o how lost are the sonnes of men in this point ? to illustrate this : the church or company of worshippers ( whether true or false ) is like unto a body or colledge of physitians in a citie ; like unto a corporation , society , or company of east-indie or turkie-merchants , or any other societie or company in london : which companies may hold their courts , keep their records , hold , disputations ; and in matters concerning their societie , may dissent , divide , breake into schismes and factions , sue and implead each other at the law , yea wholly breake up and dissolve into pieces and nothing , and yet the peace of the citie not be in the least measure impaired or disturbed ; because the essence or being of the citie , and so the well-being and peace thereof is essentially distinct from those particular societies ; the citie-courts , citie-lawes , citie-punishments distinct from theirs . the citie was before them , and stands absolute and intire , when such a corporation or societie is taken down . for instance further , the city or civill state of ephesus was essentially distinct from the worship of diana in the citie , or of the whole city . againe , the church of christ in ephesus ( which were gods people , converted and call'd out from the worship of that city unto christianitie or worship of god in christ ) was distinct from both . now suppose that god remove the candlestick from ephesus , yea though the whole worship of the citie of ephesus should be altered : yet ( if men be true and honestly ingenuous to citie-covenants , combinations and principles ) all this might be without the least impeachment or infringement of the peace of the city of ephesus . thus in the citie of smirna was the citie it selfe or civill estate one thing , the spirituall or religious state of smirna , another ; the church of christ in smirna , distinct from them both ; and the synagogue of the iewes , whether literally iewes ( as some thinke ) or mystically , false christians , ( as others ) called the synagogue of sathan , revel . . distinct from all these . and notwithstanding these spirituall oppositions in point of worship and religion , yet heare we not the least noyse ( nor need we , if men keep but the bond of civility ) of any civill breach , or breach of civill peace amongst them : and to persecute gods people there for religion , that only was a breach of civilitie it selfe . chap. vii . peace . now to the second quaerie , what it is to hold forth doctrine or practice in an arrogant or impetuous way ? truth . although it hath not pleased mr. cotton to declare what is this arrogant or impetuous holding forth of doctrine or practice tending to disturbance of civill peace , i cannot but expresse my sad and sorrowfull observation , how it pleaseth god to leave him , as to take up the common reproachfull accusation of the accuser of gods children ; to wit , that they are arrogant and impetuous : which charge ( together with that of obstinacie , pertinacie , pride , troublers of the citie , &c. ) sathan commonly loads the meekest of the saints and witnesses of iesus with . to wipe off therefore these fowle blurs and aspersions from the faire and beautifull face of the spouse of iesus , i shall select and propose or cases , for which gods witnesses in all ages and generations of men , have been charged with arrogance , impetuousnes , &c. and yet the god of heaven , and iudge of all men , hath graciously discharged them from such crimes , and maintained and avowed them for his faithfull and peaceable servants . first , gods people have proclaimed , taught , disputed for divers months together , a new religion and worship , contrary to the worship projected in the towne , city , or state , where they have lived , or where they have travelled , as did the lord iesus himselfe over all galile , and the apostles after him in all places , both in the synagogues and market-places , as appeares acts . . . acts . . yet this no arrogance nor impetuousnesse . secondly , gods servants have been zealous for their lord and master , even to the very faces of the highest , and concerning the persons of the highest , so far as they have opposed the truth of god : so eliah to the face of ahab , it is not i , but thou , and thy fathers house that troublest israel : so the lord iesus concerning herod , goe tell that fox : so paul , god delivered me from the mouth of the lion ; and to ananias , thou whited wall , and yet in all this no arrogance , nor impetuousnesse . thirdly , gods people have been immoveable , constant and resolved to the death , in refusing to submit to false worships , and in preaching and professing the true worship , contrary to expresse command of publicke authority : so the three famous worthies against the command of nobilchadnezzar , and the uniforme conformity of all nations agreeing upon a false worship , dan. . so the apostles ( acts and chap. ) and so the witnesses of iesus in all ages , who loved not their lives to the death ( rev. . ) not regarding sweet life nor bitter death , and yet not arrogant , nor impetuous . fourthly , gods people since the comming of the king of israel , the lord iesus , have openly and constantly profest , that no civill magistrate , no king nor caesar have any power over the soules or consciences of their subjects , in the matters of god and the crowne of iesus , but the civill magistrates themselves ; yea kings and keisars are bound to subject their owne soules to the ministery and church , the power and government of this lord iesus , the king of kings . hence was the charge against the apostles ( false in civill , but true in spiritualls ) that they affirmed that there was another king , one iesus , acts . . and indeed , this was the great charge against the lord iesus himself , which the iews laid against him , and for which he suffered death , as appears by the accusation written over his head upon the gallows , iohn . . iesus of nazareth king of the iewes . this was and is the summe of all true preaching of the gospell or glad newes , viz. that god anointed jesus to be the sole king and governour of all the israel of god in spirituall and soule causes , psal. . . acts . . yet this kingly power of his he resolved not to manage in his owne person , but ministerially in the hands of such messengers which he sent forth to preach and baptise , and to such as beleeved that word they preached , iohn . and yet here no arrogance nor impetuousnesse . . gods people in delivering the minde and will of god concerning the kingdomes and civill states where they have lived , have seemed in all shew of common sense and rationall policie ( if men looke not higher with the eye of saith ) to endanger and overthrow the very civill state , as appeareth by all ieremses preaching and counsell to king zedechia , his princes and people , insomuch that the charge of the princes against ieremiah was , that he discouraged the army from fighting against the babylonians , and weakned the land from its own defence , and this charge in the eye of reason , seemed not to be unreasonable or unrighteous , ier. . . chapters , and yet in ieremy no arrogance nor impetuousnesse . . lastly , gods people by their preaching , disputing , &c. have beene ( though not the cause ) yet accidentally the occasion of great contentions and divisions , yea tumults and uproares in townes and cities where they have lived and come , and yet neither their doctrine nor themselves arrogant nor impetuous , however so charged : for thus the lord jesus discovereth mens false and secure suppositions , luke● . . suppose ye that i am come to give peace on the earth ? i tell you nay , but rather division , for from hence forth shall there be five in one house divided , three against two , and two against three , the father shall be divided against the sonne , and the sonne against the father , &c. and thus upon the occasion of the apostles preaching , the kingdome and worship of god in christ , were most commonly uproares and tumults , where ever they came : for instance , those strange and nonstrous uproares at iconium , at ephesus , at ierusalem , acts . . acts . . . acts . vers . , . chap. viii . peace . it will be said ( deare truth ) what the lord jesus and his messengers taught was truth , but the question is about errour . truth . i answer , this distinction now in discussion , concernes not truth , or errour , but the manner of holding forth or divulging . i acknowledge that such may bee the way and manner of holding forth , ( either with railing or reviling , daring or chalenging speeches , or with force of armes , swords , guns , prisons , &c. ) that it may not only tend to breake , but may actually breake the civill peace , or peace of the citie . yet these instances propounded are cases of great opposition and spirituall hostility , and occasions of breach of civill peace : and yet as the borders ( or matter ) were of gold : so the speckes ( or manner , cautic . . ) were of silver : both matter and manner , pure , holy , peaceable , and inoffensive . moreover , i answer , that it is possible and common for persons of soft and gentle nature and spirits to hold out falshood with more seeming meeknesse and peaceablenesse , then the lord jesus or his servants did or doe hold forth the true and everlasting gospell . so that the answerer would be requested to explain what he means by this arrogant and impetuous holding forth of any doctrine , which very manner of holding forth tends to breake civill peace , and comes under the cognisance and correction of the civill magistrate : lest hee build the sepulchre of the prophets , and say , if we had been in the pharises daies , the romane emperours dayes , or the bloody marian dayes , we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets , mat. . . who were charged with arrogance and impetuousnesse . chap. ix . . ob. peace . it will here be said , whence then ariseth civill dissentions and uproares about matters of religion ? truth . i answer : when a kingdome or state , towne or family , lyes and lives in the guilt of a false god , false christ , false worship : no wonder if sore eyes be troubled at the appearance of the light , be it never so sweet : no wonder if a body full of corrupt humours be troubled at strong ( though wholsome ) physick ? if persons sleepy and loving to sleepe be troubled at the noise of shrill ( though silver ) alarums : no wonder if adonijah and all his company be amazed and troubled at the sound of the right heyre king salomon , ● king. . if the husbandmen were troubled when the lord of the vineyard sent servant after servant , and at last his onely sonne , and they beat , and wounded , and kill'd even the sonne himselfe , because they meant themselves to seize upon the inheritance , unto which they had no right , matth. . . hence all those tumults about the apostles in the acts , &c. whereas good eyes are not so troubled at light ; vigilant and watchfull persons loyall and faithfull , are not so troubled at the true , no nor at a false religion of jew or gentile . secondly , breach of civil peace may arise , when false and idolatrous practices are held forth , & yet no breach of civil peace from the doctrine or practice , or the manner of holding forth , but from that wrong and preposterous way of suppressing , preventing , and extinguishing such doctrines or practices by weapons of wrath and blood , whips , stockes , imprisonment , banishment , death , &c. by which men commonly are perswaded to convert heretickes , and to cast out uncleane spirits , which onely the finger of god can doe , that is the mighty power of the spirit in the word . hence the towne is in an uproare , and the country takes the alarum to expell that fog or mist of errour , heresie , blasphemy , ( as is supposed ) with swords and guns ; whereas t is light alone , even light from the bright shining sunne of righteousnesse , which is able , in the soules and consciences of men to dispell and scatter such fogges and darknesse . hence the sons of men , ( as david speakes in another case , psal. . ) disquiet themselves in vaine , and unmercifully disquiet others , as ( by the helpe of the lord ) in the sequell of this discourse shall more appeare . chap. x. peace . now the last distinction is this : persecution for conscience , is either for a rightly informed conscience , or a blinde and erroneous conscience . answ. truth . indeed both these consciences are persecuted : but lamentably blinde and erronious will these consciences shortly appear to be , which out of zeale for god ( as is pretended ) have persecuted either . and heavie is the doome of those blinde guides and idoll shepherds ( whose right eye gods finger of jealousie hath put out ) who flattering the ten homes or worldly powers , perswade them what excellent and faithfull service they performe to god , in persecuting both these consciences : either hanging up a rightly informed conscience , and therein the lord jesus himselfe , betweene two malefactors , or else killing the erroneous and the blinde , like saul ( out of zeale to the israel of god ) the poore gibeonites , whom it pleased god to permit to live : and yet that hostility and cruelty used against them ( as the repeated judgement yeare after yeare upon the whole land after told them ) could not be pardoned , untill the death of the persecutor saul his sons had appeased the lords displeasure , sam. . chap. xi . peace . after explication in these distinctions , it pleaseth the answerer to give his resolution to the question in foure particulars . first , that he holds it not lawfull to persecute any for conscience sake rightly informed , for in persecuting such ( saith he ) christ himself is persecuted : for which reason , truly rendred , he quotes act. . . saul , saul , why persecutest thou me ? truth . he that shall reade this conclusion over a thousand times , shall as soone finde darknesse in the bright beames of the sunne , as in this so cleare and shining a beame of truth , viz. that christ jesus in his truth must not be persecuted . yet this i must aske ( for it will be admired by all sober men ) what should be the cause or inducement to the answerers mind to lay down such a position or thesis as this is , it is not lawfull to persecute the lord iesus . search all scriptures , histories , records , monuments , consult with all experiences , did ever pharaoh , saul , ahab , iezabel , scribes and pharises , the jewes , herod , the bloudy neroes , gardiners , boners , pope or devill himselfe , professe to persecute the son of god , jesus as jesus , christ as christ , without a mask or covering ? no , saith pharaoh , the isrealites are idle , and therefore speake they of sacrificing : david is risen up in a conspiracy against saul , therefore persecute him : naboth hath blasphemed god and the king , therefore stone him : christ is a seducer of the people , a blasphemer against god , and traytor against caesar , therefore hang him : christians are schismaticall , factious , hereticall , therefore persecute them : the devill hath deluded iohn hus , therefore crowne him with a paper of devils , and burne him , &c. peace . one thing i see apparantly in the lords over-ruling the pen of this worthy answerer , viz. a secret whispering from heaven to him , that ( although his soules ayme at christ , and hath wrought much for christ in many sincere intentions , and gods mercifull and patient acceptance ) yet he hath never left the tents of such who think they doe god good service in killing the lord jesus in his servants , and yet they say , if we had beene in the dayes of our fathers in queene maries dayes , &c. we would never have consented to such persecution : and therefore when they persecute christ jesus in his truths or servants , they say , doe not say you are persecuted for the word for christ his sake , for we hold it not lawfull to persecute iesus christ. let me also adde a second ; so farre as he hath beene a guide ( by preaching for persecution ) i say , wherein he hath beene a guide and leader , by mis-interpreting and applying the writings of truth , so far i say his owne mouthes and hands shall judge ( i hope not his persons , but ) his actions , for the lord jesus hath suffered by him , act. . . and if the lord jesus himselfe were present , himselfe should suffer that in his owne person , which his servants witnessing his truth doe suffer for his sake . chap. xii . peace . their second conclusion is this : it is not lawfull to persecute erroneous and blinde conscience , even in fundamentall and weighty points , till after admonition once or twice , tit. . . and then such consciences may be persecuted , because the word of god is so cleare in fundamentall and weighty points , that such a person cannot but sin against his conscience , and so being condemned of himselfe , that is , of his conscience , hee may be persecuted for sinning against his owne conscience . truth . i answer , in that great battell betweene the lord jesus and the devill , it is observable that sathan takes up the weapons of scripture , and such scripture which in shew and colour was excellent for his purpose : but in this . of titus , as salomon speakes of the birds of heaven , prov. . a man may evidently see the snare ; and i know the time is comming wherein it shall bee said , surely in vaine the net is laid in the sight of the saints ( heavenly birds . ) so palpably grosse and thicke is the mist and fog which sathan hath raised about this scripture , that he that can but see men as trees in matters of gods worship , may easily discerne what a wonderfull deepe sleepe gods people are fallen into concerning the visible kingdome of christ , in so much that this third of titus which through fearfull prophanations , hath so many hundred years been the pretended bulwark and defence of all the bloudy wolves , dens of lions , and mountains of leopards , hunting and devouring the witnesses of jesus , should now be the refuge and defence of ( as i hope ) the lambes and little ones of jesus , yet ( in this point ) so preaching and practising so unlike to themselves , to the lord jesus , and lamentably too like to his and their persecutors . chap. xiii . peace . bright truth , since this place of titus is such a pretended bulwark for persecuting of hereticks , & under that pretence of persecuting all thy followers , i beseech you by the bright beames of the sun of righteousnesse , scatter these mists , and unfold these particulars out of the text : first , what this man is that is an hereticke . secondly , how this hereticke is condemned of himselfe . thirdly , what is this first and second admonition , and by whom it is supposed to be given . fourthly , what is this rejecting of him , and by whom it is supposed this rejection was to be made . truth . first , what is this heretick ? i find him commonly defined to be such an one as is obstinate in fundamentalls , and so also i conceive the answerer seems to recent him , saying , that the apostle renders this reason , why after once and twice admonition , he ought to be persecuted , because in fundamentall and principall points of doctrine and worship , the word of god is so cleare , that the hereticke cannot but be convinced in his owne conscience . but of this reason , i finde not one tittle mentioned in this scripture : for although he saith such an one is condemned of himselfe , yet he saith not , nor will it follow that fundamentalls are so cleare , that after first and second admonition , a person that submits not to them is condemned of himself , any more then in lesser points . this verse hath reference to the former verses . titus an evangelist , a preacher of glad newes , abiding here with the church of christ at creet , is required by paul to avoid , to reject , and to teach the church to reject genealogies , disputes , and unprofitable questions about the law : such a like charge it is as he gave to timothy , left also an evangelist at ephesus , tim. . . if it should be objected what is to be done to such contentious vain strivers about genealogies and questions unprofitable ? the apostle seems plainly to answer , let him be once and twice admonished . ob. yea , but what if once and twice admonition prevaile not ? the apostle seems to answer , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and that is , the man that is wilfully obstinate after such once and twice admonition , reject him . with this scripture agrees that of tim. . , . where timothy is commanded to withdraw himselfe from such who dote about questions and strife of words . all which are points of a lower and inferiour nature , not properly falling within the tearms or notions of those ( 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ) first principles and ( 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ) foundations of the christian profession , to wit , repentance from dead workes , faith towards god , the doctrine of baptismes , and of laying on of hands , the resurrection , and eternall judgement , heb. . . &c. concerning these fundamentalls ( although nothing is so little in the christian worship , but may be referred to one of these six , yet ) doth not paul to timothy or titus speake in those places by me alledged , o● of any of these , as may evidently appeare by the context and scope ? the beloved spouse of christ is no receptacle for any filthy person , obstinate in any filthynesse against the purity of the lord jesus , who hath commanded his people to purge out the old leaven , not only greater portions , but a little leaven which will leaven the whole lumpe ; and therefore this hereticke or obstinate person in these vaine and unprofitable questions , was to be rejected , as well as if his obstinacie had been in greater matters . againe , if there were a doore or window left open to vaine and unprofitable questions , and sinnes of smaller nature , how apt are persons to cover with a silken covering , and to say , why , i am no hereticke in fundamentalls , spare me in this or that little one ; this or that opinion or practice , these are of an inferiour circumstantiall nature ? &c. so that the coherence with the former verses , and the scope of the spirit of god in this and other like scriptures being carefully observed , this greek word hereticke is no more in true english and in truth , then an obstinate and wilfull person in the church of creet , striving and contending about those unprofitable questions and genealogies , &c. and is not such a monster intended in this place , as mo●● interpreters run upon , to wit , one obstinate in fundamentalls , and as the answerer makes the apostle to write in such fundamentalls and principall points , wherein the word of god is so cleare that a man cannot but be convinced in conscience , and therefore is not persecuted for matter of conscience , but for sinning against his conscience . chap. xiv . peace . now in the second place , what is this self-condemnation ? truth . the apostle seemeth to make this a ground of the rejecting of such a person , because he is subverted and sinneth , being condemned of himselfe : it will appeare upon due search that this selfe-condemning is not here intended to be in hereticks ( as men say ) in fundamentalls only , but as it is meant here , in men obstinate in the lesser questions , &c. first , he is subverted or turned crooked , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , a word opposite to streightnesse or rightnesse : so that the scope is , as i conceive , upon true and faithfull admonition once or twice , the pride of heart , or heat of wrath , drawes a vaile over the eyes and heart , so that the soule is turned loosed and from the checks of truth . secondly , he sinneth , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , that is , being subverted or turned aside ; he sinneth or wanders from the path of truth , and is condemned by himselfe 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , that is , by the secret checkes and whisperings of his owne conscience , which will take gods part against a mans selfe , in smiting , accusing , &c. which checks of conscience we finde even in gods owne dear people , as is most admirably opened in the of cant. in those sad , drowsie and unkinde passages of the spouse in her answer to the knocks and calls of the lord iesus ; which gods people in all their awakening acknowledge how sleightly they have listned to the checks of their owne consciences . this the answerer pleaseth to call sinning against his conscience , for which he may lawfully be persecuted , to wit , for sinning against his conscience . which conclusion ( though painted over with the vermillion of mistaken scripture , and that old dreame of iew and gentile , that the crowne of iesus will consist of outward materiall gold , and his sword be made of iron or steele , executing judgement in his church and kingdome by corporall punishment ) i hope ( by the assistance of the lord jesus ) to manifest it to be the overturning and rooting up the very foundation and roots of all true christianity , and absolutely denying the lord iesus the great anointed to be yet come in the flesh. chap. xv. this will appeare , if we examine the two last quaries of this place of titus : to wit , first , what this admonition is ? secondly , what is the rejection here intended ? reject him . first then , titus , unto whom this epistle & these directions were written , ( and in him to all that succeed him in the like work of the gospell to the worlds end ) he was no minister of the civill state , armed with the majestie and terrour of a materiall sword , who might for offences against the civill state , inflict punishments upon the bodies of men , by imprisonments , whippings , sines , banishment , death . titus was a minister of the gospel or glad tidings , armed onely with the spirituall sword of the word of god , and such spirituall weapons as ( yet ) through god were mighty to the casting down of strong holds , yea every high thought of the highest head and heart in the world , cor. . . therefore these first and second admonitions were not civill or corporall punishments on mens persons or purses , which the courts of men may lawfully inflict upon malefactors : but they were the reprehensions , convictions , exhortations , and perswasions of the word of the eternall god , charged home to the conscience , in the name and presence of the lord iesus , in the middest of the church . which being despised and not hearkned to , in the last place followes rejection ; which is not a cutting off by heading , hanging , burning , &c. or an expelling of the country and coasts : neither which ( no nor any lesser civill punishment ) titus nor the church at crete had any power to exercise . but it was that dreadfull cutting off from that visible head and body , christ iesus and his church ; that purging out of the old leaven from the lumpe of the saints ; the putting away of the evill and wicked person from the holy land and commonwealth of gods israel , cor. . where it is observable , that the same word used by moses for putting a malefactor to death in typicall israel , by sword , stoning , &c. deut . . is here used by paul for the spirituall killing or cutting off by excommunication , cor. . . put away that evill person , &c. now i desire the answerer , and any , in the holy awe and feare of god to consider , that from whom the first and second admonition was to proceed , from them also was the rejecting or casting out to proceed , as before . but not from the civill magistrate ( to whom paul writes not this epistle , and who also is not bound once and twice to admonish , but may speedily punish , as he sees cause , the persons or purses of delinquents against his civill state : ) but from titus the minister or angel of the church , and from the church with him , were these first and second admonitions to proceed ; and therefore at last also this rejecting , which can be no other but a casting out , or excommunicating of him from their church-societie . indeed , this rejecting is no other then that avoyding which paul writes of to the church of christ at rome , rom. . . which avoyding ( however wofully perverted by some to prove persecution ) belonged to the governours of christs church & kingdom in rome , and not to the romane emperour for him to rid and avoyd the world of them , by bloody and cruell persecution . chap. xvi . peace . the third conclusion is ; in points of lesser moment , there ought to be a toleration . which though i acknowledge to be the truth of god , yet things are very observable in the manner of laying it down ; for sathan useth excellent arrowes to bad markes , and sometimes beyond the intent , and hidden from the eye of the archer . first ( saith he ) such a person is to be tolerated , till god may be pleased to reveale his truth to him . truth . this is well observed by you ; for indeed this is the very ground why the apostle calls for meekenesse and gentlenesse toward all men , and toward such as oppose themselves , tim. . because there is a peradventure or it may be ; it may be god may give them repentance . that god that hath shewen mercy to one , may shew mercy to another : it may be that eye-salve that anointed one mans eye who was blinde and opposite , may anoint another as blinde and opposite : he that hath given repentance to the husband , may give it to his wise , &c. hence that soule that is lively and sensible of mercy received to it selfe in former blindnesse , opposition and enmitie against god , cannot but be patient and gentle toward the iewes , who yet deny the lord iesus to be come , and justifie their fore-fathers in murthering of him : toward the turkes , who acknowledge christ a great prophet , yet affirme lesse than mahomet . yea to all the severall sorts of antichristians , who set up many a false christ in stead of him . and lastly to the pagans and wildest sorts of the sons of men , who have not yet heard of the father , nor the son. and to all these sorts , iewes , turkes , antichristians , pagans , when they oppose the light presented to them ; in sense of its ow● former opposition , and that god peradventure may at last give repentance : i adde , such a soule will not onely be patient , but earnestly and constantly pray for all sorts of men , that out of them gods elect may be called to the fellowship of christ iesus , and lastly , not only pray , but endeavour ( to its utmost abilitie ) their participation of the same grace and mercy . that great rock upon which so many gallant ships miscarrie , viz. that such persons , false prophets , hereticks , &c. were to be put to death in israel , i shall ( with gods assistance ) remove : as also that fine silken covering of the image , viz. that such persons ought to be put to death or banished , to prevent the infecting and seducing of others , i shall ( with gods assistance ) in the following discourse pluck off . secondly , i observe from the scriptures he quoteth for this toleration , ( phil. . & rom. ) how closely , yet i hope unadvisedly , he makes the churches of christ at philippi and rome , all one with the cities philippi and rome , in which the churches were , and to whom onely paul wrote . as if what these churches in philippi and rome must tolerate amongst themselves , that the ci●ies philippi and rome must tole rate in their citizens : and what these churches must not tolerate , that these cities philippi and rome must not tolerate within the compasse of the city , state and jurisdiction . truth . upon that ground , by undeniable consequence , these cities philippi and rome were bound not to tolerate themselves , that is , the cities and citizens of philippi and rome , in their own civill life and being , but must kill or expell themselves from their own cities , as being idolatrous worshippers of other gods then the true god in iesus christ. but as the lilie is amongst the thornes , so is christs love among the daughters : and as the apple-tree among the trees of the forrest , so is her beloved among the sons : so great a difference is there between the church in a citie or country , and the civill state , city or country in which it is . no lesse then ( as david in another case , psal. . as far as the heavens are from the earth ) are they that are truly christs ( that is , anointed truly with the spirit of christ ) from many thousands who love not the lord iesus christ , and yet are and must be permitted in the world or civill state , although they have no right to enter into the gates of ierusalem the church of god. and this is the more carefully to bee minded , because when ever a toleration of others religion and conscience is pleaded for , such as are ( i hope in truth ) zealous for god , readily produce plenty of scriptures written to the church , both before and since christs comming , all commanding and pressing the putting forth of the uncleane , the cutting off the obstinate , the purging out the leaven , rejecting of heretickes . as if because brians , thornes , and phistles may not be in the garden of the church , therefore they must all bee pluckt up out of the wildernesse : whereas he that is a briar , that is , a iew , a turke , a pagan , an antichristian to day , may be ( when the word of the lord runs freely ) a member of iesus christ to morrow cut out of the wilde olive , and planted into the true . peace . thirdly , from this toleration of persons but holding lesser errours , i observe the unmercifulnesse of such doctrines and hearts , as if they had forgotten the blessednesse , blessed are the mercifull , for they shall obtaine mercy , math. . he that is sleightly and but a little hurt , shall be suffered , and meanes vouchsafed for his cure . but the deepe wounded sinners , and leprous , ulcerous , and those of bloudy issues twelve yeares together , and those which have been bowed down . years of their life , they must not be suffered untill peradventure god may give them repentance ; but either it is not lawfull for a godly magistrate to rule and governe such a people ( as some have said ) or else if they be under government , and reforme not to the state religion after the first and second admonition , the civill magistrate is bound to persecute , &c. truth . such persons have need , as paul to the romanes , chap. . . to be besought by the mercy of god to put on bowels of mercy toward such as have neither wronged them in body or goods , and therefore justly should not be punished in their goods or persons . chap. xvii . peace . i shall now trouble you ( deare truth ) but with one conclusion more , which is this : viz. that if a man hold forth errour with a boysterous and arrogant spirit , to the disturbance of the civill peace , he ought to be punished , &c. truth . to this i have spoken too , confessing that if any man commit ought of those things which paul was accused of ( act. . . ) he ought not to be spared , yea he ought not , as paul saith , in such cases to refuse to dye . but if the matter be of another nature , a spirituall and divine nature , i have written before in many cases , and might in many more , that the worship which a state professeth may bee contradicted and preached against , and yet no breach of civill peace . and if a breach follow , it is not made by such doctrines , but by the boysterous and violent opposers of them . such persons onely breake the cities or kingdomes peace , who cry out for prison and swords against such who crosse their judgement or practice in religion . for as iosephs mistris accused ioseph of uncleannesse , and calls out for civill violence against him , when ioseph was chaste , and her selfe guilty : so commonly the meeke and peaceable of the earth are traduced as rebells , factious , peace-breakers , although they deale not with the state or state-matters , but matters of divine and spirituall nature , when their traducers are the onely unpeaceable , and guilty of breach of civill peace . peace . we are now come to the second part of the answer , which is a particular examination of such grounds as are brought against such persecution . the first sort of grounds are from the scriptures . chap. xviii . first , matth. . , . because christ commandeth to let alone the tares to grow up together with the wheat , untill the harvest . unto which he answereth : that tares are not bryars and thornes , but partly hypocrites , like unto the godly , but indeed carnall ( as the tares are like to wheat , but are not wheat , ) or partly such corrupt doctrines or practices as are indeed unsound , but yet such as come very near the truth ( as tares do to the wheat ) and so neer that good men may be taken with them , and so the persons in whom they grow cannot bee rooted out , but good wheat will be rooted out with them . in such a case ( saith he ) christ calleth for peaceable toleration , and not for penall prosecution , according to the third conclusion . truth . the substance of this answer i conceive to be first negative , that by tares are not meant persons of another religion and worship , that is ( saith he ) they are not briars and thornes . secondly , affirmative , by tares are meant either persons , or doctrines , or practices ; persons , as hypocrites , like the godly : doctrines or practices corrupt , yet like the truth . for answer hereunto i confesse that not onely those worthy witnesses ( whose memories are sweet with all that feare god ) calvin , beza , &c. but of later times many conjoyne with this worthy answerer , to satisfie themselves and others with such an interpretation . but alas , how darke is the soule left that desires to walke with god in holy feare and trembling , when in such a waighty and mighty point as this is , that in matters of conscience concerneth the spilling of the bloud of thousands , and the civill peace of the world in the taking up armes to suppresse all false religions ! when i say no evidence or demonstration of the spirit is brought to prove such an interpretation , nor arguments from the place it selfe or the scriptures of truth to confirme it ; but a bare affirmation that these tares must signifie persons , or doctrines and practices . i will not imagine any deceitfull purpose in the answerers thoughts in the proposall of these three , persons , doctrines , or practices , yet dare i confidently avouch that the old serpent hath deceived their precious soules , and by tongue and pen would deceive the soules of others by such a method of dividing the word of truth . a threefold cord , and so a threefold snare is strong , and too like it is that one of the three , either persons , doctrines , or practices may catch some feet . chap. xix . peace . the place then being of such great importance as concerning the truth of god , the bloud of thousands , yea the bloud of saints , and of the lord iesus in them , i shall request your more diligent search ( by the lords holy assistance ) into this scripture . i shall make it evident , that by these tares in this parable are meant persons in respect of their religion and way of worship , open and visible professours , as bad as briars and thornes ; not onely suspected foxes , but as bad as those greedy wolves which paul speakes of , acts . who with perverse and evill doctrines labour spiritually to devoure the flocke , and to draw away disciples after them , whose mouthes must be stopped , and yet no carnall force or weapon to be used against them , but their mischiefe to bee resisted with those mighty weapons of the holy armoury of the lord iesus , wherein there hangs a thousand shields , cant. . that the lord iesus intendeth not doctrines or practices by the tares in this parable is cleare : for first , the lord iesus expresly interpreteth the good seed to be persons , and those the children of the kingdome ; and the tares also to signifie men , and those the children of the wicked one , ver . . secondly , such corrupt doctrines or practices are not to bee tolerated now as those iewish observations ( the lords owne ordinances ) were for a while to be permitted , rom. . nor so long as till the angels the reapers come to reape the harvest in the end of the world . for can we thinke that because the tender consciences of the iewes were to be tendred in their differences of meats , that therefore persons must now bee tolerated in the church ( for i speake not of the civill state ) and that to the worlds end , in superstitious forbearing and forbidding of flesh in popish lents , and superstitious fridayes , &c. and that because they were to be tendred in their observation of iewish holidayes , that therefore untill the harvest or worlds end , persons must now be tolerated ( i meane in the church ) in the observation of popish christmas , easter , whitsontide , and other superstitious popish festivals ? i willingly acknowledge , that if the members of a church of christ shall upon some delusion of sathan kneele at the lords supper , keep christmas , or any other popish observation , great tendernesse ought to bee used in winning his soule from the errour of his way : and yet i see not that persons so practising were sit to be received into the churches of christ now , as the iewes weake in the faith , ( that is , in the liberties of christ ) were to be received , rom. . . and least of all ( as before ) that the toleration or permission of such ought to continue till doomes day , or the end of the world , as this parable urgeth the toleration : let them alone untill the harvest . chap. xx. againe , hypocrites were not intended by the lord iesus in this famous parable . first , the originall word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , signifying all those weeds which spring up with the corne , as cockle , darnell , tares , &c. seemes to imply such a kinde of people as commonly and generally are knowne to bee manifestly different from , and opposite to the true worshippers of god , here called the children of the kingdom ; as these weeds , tares , cockle , darnell , &c. are commonly and presently knowne by every husbandman to differ from the wheat , and to be opposite , and contrary , and hurtfull unto it . now whereas it is pleaded that these tares are like the wheat , and so like that this consimilitude or likenesse is made the ground of this interpretation , viz. that tares must needs signifie hypocrites , or doctrines , or practices , who are like gods children , truth , &c. i answer , first , the parable holds forth no such thing , that the likenesse of the tares should deceive the servants to cause them to suppose for a time that they were good wheat , but that as soone as ever the tares appeared , ver . . the servants came to the housholder about them , ver . . the scripture holds forth no such time wherein they doubted or suspected what they were . peace . it may be said they did not appeare to be tares untill the co●ne was in the blade , and put forth its fruit . truth . i answer , * the one appeared as soone as the other , for so the word clearly carries it , that the seed of both having been sowne , when the wheat appeared and put forth its blade and fruit , the tares also were as early , and put forth themselves as appeared also . secondly , there is such a dissimilitude or unlikenesse , i say such a dissimilitude , that as soone as tares and wheat are sprung up to blade and fruit , every husbandman can tell which is wheat , and which are tares and cockle , &c. peace . it may be said true : so when the hypocrite is manifested , then all may know him , &c. but before hypocrites be manifested by fruits they are unknowne . i answer , search into the parable , and aske when was it that the servants first complained of the tares to the housholder , but when they appeared or came in sight , there being no interim , wherein the servants could not tell what to make of them , but doubted whether they were wheat or tares , as the answerer implies . secondly , when was it that the housholder gave charge to let them alone , but after that they appeared , and were known to be tares , which should imply by this interpretation of the answerer , that when men are discovered and knowne to be hypocrites , yet stil●●uch a generation of hypocrites in the church must be let alone and tolerated untill the harvest or end of the world , which is contrary to all order , piety and safety in the church of the lord iesus , as doubtlesse the answerers will grant ; so that those tares being notoriously knowne to be different from the corne , i conclude that they cannot here be intended by the lord iesus to signifie secret hypocrites , but more open and apparent sinners . chap. xxi . the second reason why these tares cannot signifie hypocrites in the church , i take from the lord iesus his own interpretation of the field ( in which both wheat and tares are sowne , which saith he is the world , out of which god chooseth and calleth his church . the world lyes in wickednesse , is like a wildernesse or a sea of wilde beasts innumerable , fornicators , covetous , idolaters , &c. with whom gods people may lawfully converse and cohabit in cities , townes , &c. else must they not live in the world , but goe out of it , in which world as soone as ever the lord iesus had sowne the good seed , the children of the kingdome , true christianity , or the true church ; the enemy sathan presently in the night of security , ignorance and errour ( whilest men slept ) sowed also these tares which are antichristians or false christians . these strange professours of the name of iesus , the ministers and prophets of god , beholding they are ready to runne to heaven to fetch fiery judgements from thence to consume these strange christians , and to pluck them by the roots out of the world : but the son of man , the meek lamb of god ( for the elect sake which must be gathered out of iew and gentile , pagan , antichristian , commands a permission of them in the world , untill the time of the end of the world , when the goats and sheep , the tares and wheat shall be eternally separated each from other . peace . you know some excellent worthies ( dead and living ) have laboured to turne this field of the world into the garden of the church . truth . but who can imagine that the wisdome of the father , the lord iesus christ , would so open this parable ( as he professedly doth ) as that it should be close shut up , and that one difficulty or locke should be opened by a greater and harder , in calling the world the church ? contrary also to the way of the light and love that is in jesus , when he would purposely teach and instruct his scholars contrary to the nature of parables and similitudes . and lastly , to the nature of the church or garden of christ. chap. xxii . in the former parable the lord iesus compared the kingdome of heaven to the sowing of seed . the true messengers of christ are the sowers , who cast the seed of the word of the kingdome upon foure sorts of ground , which foure sorts of ground or hearts of men , cannot be supposed to be of the church , nor will it ever be proved that the church consisteth of any more sorts or natures of ground properly , but one , to wit , the honest and good ground , and the proper worke of the church concernes the flourishing and prosperity of this sort of ground , and not the other unconverted●●ree ●●ree sorts , who it may be seldome or never come 〈◊〉 the church unlesse they be forced by the civill sword , which the patern● or first sowers never used , and being forced they are put into a way of religion by such a course , if not so , they are forced to live without● religion , for one of the two must necessarily follow , as i shall prove afterward . in the field of the world then are all those sorts of ground , high way hearers , stony and thorny ground hearers , as well as the honest and good ground , and i suppose it will not now be said by the answerer , that those three sorts of bad grounds were hypocrites or tares in the church . now after the lord iesus had propounded that great leading parable of the sower and the seed , he is pleased to propound this parable of the tares , with admirable coherence and sweet consolation to the honest and good ground , who with glad and honest hearts having received the word of the kingdome , may yet seem to be discouraged and troubled with so many antichristians and false professours of the name of christ. the lord iesus therefore gives direction concerning these tares , that unto the end of the world successively in all the sorts and generations of them they must be ( not approved or countenanced , but ) let alone or permitted in the world. secondly , he gives to his owne good seed this consolation , that those heavenly reapers the angells in the harvest or end of the world , will take an order and course with them , to wit , they shall binde them into bundles , and cast them into the everlasting burnings , and to make the cup of their consolation run over : he addes vers . . then , then at that time shall the righteous shine as the sun in the kingdome of their father . these tares then neither being erronious doctrines , nor corrupt practises , nor hypocrites in the true church intended by the lord jesus in this parable ; i shall in the third place by the helpe of the same lord jesus ) evidently prove that these tares can be no other sort of sinners , but false worshippers , idolaters , and in particular properly , antichristians . chap. xxiii . first then , these tares are such sinners as are opposite and contrary to the children of the kingdome visibly so declared and manifest , ver . . now the kingdome of god below , is the visible church of christ jesus , according to matth. . . the children of the kingdome which are threatned to be cast out , seeme to be the iewes , which were then the onely visible church in covenant with the lord , when all other nations followed other gods and worships . and more plaine is that fearefull threatning , matth. . . the kingdome of god shall be taken from you , and given to a nation that will bring forth the fruits thereof . such then are the good seed , good wheat , children of the kingdome , as are the disciples , members and subjects of the lord iesus christ his church & kingdom : and therefore consequently such are the tares , as are opposite to these , idolaters , will-worshippers , not truly but falsly submitting to iesus : and in especiall , the children of the wicked one , visibly so appearing . which wicked one i take not to be the devill ; for the lord iesus seemes to make them distinct : he that sowes the good seed ( saith he ) is the son of man , the field is the world , the good seed are the children of the kingdome , but the tares are the children of the wicked , or wickednesse , the enemy that sowed them , is the devill . the originall here , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , agrees with that , luk. . . deliver us 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , from evill or wickednesse ; opposite to the children of the kingdome and the righteousnesse thereof . chap. xxiv . peace . it is true , that all drunkards , thieves , uncleane persons , &c. are opposite to gods children . truth . answ. their opposition here against the children of the kingdome , is such an opposition as properly sights against the religious state or worship of the lord iesus christ. secondly , it is manifest , that the lord jesus in this parable intends no other sort of sinners , unto whom he saith , let them alone , in church or state ; for then he should contradict other holy and blessed ordinances for the punishment of offenders both in christian and civill state. first , in civill state , from the beginning of the world , god hath armed fathers , masters , magistrates , to punish evill doers , that is , such of whose actions fathers , masters , magistrates are to judge , and accordingly to punish such sinners as transgresse against the good and peace of their civill state , families , townes , cities , kingdomes : their states , governments , governours , lawes , punishments and weapons being all of a civill nature : and therefore neither disobedience to parents or magistrates , nor murther nor quarrelling , uncleannesse nor lasciviousnesse , stealing nor extortion , neither ought of that kinde ought to be let alone , either in lesser or greater families , townes , cities , kingdomes , rom. . but seasonably to be supprest , as may best conduce to the publike safetie . againe secondly , in the kingdome of christ iesus , whose kingdoms , officers , lawes , punishments , weapons , are spirituall and of a soule-nature , he will not have antichristian idolaters , extortioners , covetous , &c. to be let alone , but the uncleane and lepers to be thrust forth , the old leaven purged out , the obstinate in sinne spiritually stoned to death , and put away from israel ; and this by many degrees of gentle admonition in private and publique , as the case requires . therefore if neither offenders against the civill lawes , state and peace ought to be let alone ; nor the spirituall estate , the church of iesus christ ought to beare with them that are evill , revel . . i conclude , that these are sinners of another nature , idolaters , false-worshippers , antichristians , who without discouragement to true christians must be let alone and permitted in the world to grow and fill up the measure of their sinnes , after the image of him that hath sowen them , untill the great harvest shall make the difference . chap. xxv . thirdly , in that the officers unto whom these tares are referred , are the angels the heavenly reapers at the last day , it is cleare as the light , that ( as before ) these tares cannot signifie hypocrites in the church , who when they are discovered and seen to be tares opposite to the good fruit of the good seed , are not to be let alone to the angels at harvest or end of the world , but purged out by the governors of the church , and the whole church of christ. againe , they cannot be offenders against the civill state and common welfare , whose dealing with is not suspended unto the comming of the angels , but unto men , who ( although they know not the lord iesus christ , yet ) are lawfull governours and rulers in civill things . accordingly in the . and last place , in that the plucking up of these tares out of this field must bee let alone unto the very harvest or end of the world , it is apparent from thence , that ( as before ) they could not signifie hypocrites in the church , who when they are discovered to be so , ( as these tares were discovered to be tares ) are not to be suffered ( after the first and second admonition ) but to be rejected , and every brother that walketh disorderly to be withdrawen or separated from : so likewise no offendour against the civill state , by robbery , murther , adultery , oppression , sedition , mutinie , is for ever to be connived at , and to enjoy a perpetuall toleration unto the worlds end , as these tares must . moses for a while held his peace against the sedition of korah , dathan , and abiram . david for a season tolerated shimei , ioab , adonijah ; but till the harvest or end of the world , the lord never intended that any but these spirituall and mysticall tares should be so permitted . chap. xxvi . now if any imagine that the time or date is long , that in the meane season they may doe a world of mischiefe before the worlds end , as by infection , &c. truth . first , i answer , that as the civill state keepes it selfe with a civill guard , in case these tares shall attempt ought against the peace and welfare of it , let such civill offences be punished , and yet as tares opposite to christs kingdome , let their worship and consciences be tolerated . secondly , the church or spirituall state , city , or kingdome hath lawes , and orders , and armories , ( whereon there hang a thousand bucklers , cant. . ) weapons and ammunition , able to break down the strongest holds , cor. . and so to defend it selfe against the very gates of earth or hell. thirdly , the lord himself knows who are his , & his foundation remaineth sure , his elect or chosen cannot perish nor be finally deceived . lastly , the lord iesus here in this parable layes downe two reasons , able to content and satisfie our hearts● to bea●e patiently this their contradiction and antichristianity , and to permit or let them alone . first , lest the good wheat bee pluckt up and rooted up also out of this field of the world , if such combustions and fightings were , as to pluck up all the false professours of the name of christ , the good wheat also would enjoy little peace , but be in danger to bee pluckt up and torne out of this world by such bloody stormes and tempests . and therefore as gods people are commanded , ier. . to pray for the peace of materiall babell , wherein they were captivated , and time. . to pray for all men , and specially kings and governors , that in the peace of the civill state they may have peace . so contrary to the opinion and practice of most ( drunke with the cup of the whores fornication ) yea , and of gods owne people fast asleepe in antichristian dalilahs laps , obedience to the command of christ to let the tares alone , will prove the onely meanes to preserve then civill peace , and that without obedience to this command of christ , it is impossible ( without great transgression against the lord in carnall policy , which will not long hold out to preserve the civill peace . beside , gods people the good wheat are generally pluckt up and persecuted , as well as the vilest idolaters , whether jewes or antichristians , which the lord jesus seemes in this parable to foretell . the second reason noted in the parable which may satisfie any man from wondring at the patience of god , is this : when the world is ripe in sinne , in the sinnes of antichristianisme ( as the lord spake of the sinnes of the amorites , gen. . ) then those holy and mighty officers and executioners , the angels , with their sharpe and cu●ting sickles of eternall vengeance , shall downe with them , and bundle them up for the everlasting burnings . then shall that man of sin , thess. . be consumed by the breath of the mouth of the lord iesus , and all that worship the beast and his picture , and receive his mark into their forehead or their hands , shall drink of the wine of the wrath of god which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation , and he shall be tormented wit●●i●e and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels , and in the presence of the lambe , and the smoake of their torment shall ascend up for ever and ever , rev. . . . chap. xxvii . peace . you have beene larger in vindicating this scripture from the violence offered unto it , because as i said 〈…〉 such great consequence , as also because so many excellent 〈◊〉 have not rightly ●●vided it , to the great misguiding of many precious 〈◊〉 , which otherwise might have beene turned into the paths of more peaceablenesse in themselves and towards others . truth . i shall be briefer in the scriptures following . peace . yet before you depart from this , i must crave your patience to satisfie one objection , and that is ; these servants to whom the housholder answereth , seem to be the ministers or messengers of the gospel , not the magistrates of the civill state , and therfore this charge of the lord jesus is not given to magistrates to let alone false worshippers and idolaters . againe , being spoken by the lora iesus to his messengers , it seemes to concern hypocrites in the church , as before was spoken , and not false worshippers in the state or world. truth . i answer , first , i beleeve i have sufficiently and abundantly proved , that these tares are not offenders in the civill state. nor secondly , hypocrites in the church , when once discovered so to bee , and that therefore the lord iesus intends a grosser kinde of hypocrites , professing the name of churches and christians in the field of the world or commonwealth . secondly , i acknowledge this command [ let them alone ] was expresly spoken to the messengers or ministers of the gospel , who have no civill power or authority in their hand , and therefore not to the civill magistrate , king , or governour , to whom it pleased not the lord iesus by himselfe or by his apostles to give particular rules or directions concerning their behaviour and carriage in civill magistracy , as they have done expresly concerning the duty of fathers , mothers , children , masters , servants , yea and of subjects towards magistrates , ephes. . & . colos. . & . &c. i conceive not the reason of this to be ( as some weakly have done ) because the lord jeus would not have any followers of his to hold the place of civill magistracy , but rather that he foresaw , and the holy spirit in the apostles foresaw how few magistrates , either in the first persecuted , or apostated state of christianity would imbrace his yoake : in the persecuted state , magistrates hated the very name of christ or christianity : in the state apostate some few magistrates ( in their persons holy and precious , yet ) as concerning their places , as they have professed to have beene governours or heads of the church , have beene so many false heads , and have constituted so many false visible christs . thirdly , i conceive this charge of the lord jesus to his messengers the preachers and proclaimers of his minde , is a sufficient declaration of the minde of the lord iesus , if any civill magistrate should make question what were his duty concerning spirituall things . the apostles , and in them all that succeed them , being commanded not to pluck up the tares , but let them alone , received from the lord iesus a threefold charge . first , to let them alone , and not to plucke them up by prayer to god for their present temporall destruction . ieremie had a commission to plant and build , to pluck up and destroy kingdomes , ier. . . therefore hee is commanded not to pray for that people whom god had a purpose to pluck up , jer. . and he plucks up the whole nation by prayer , lament . . . thus elijah brought fire from heaven to consume the captaines and the ●ifties , king. . and the apostles desired also so to practise against the samaritanes , luc. . . but were reproved by the lord iesus . for contrarily , the saints and servants and churches of christ are to pray for all men , especially for all magistrates ( of what sort or religions soever ) and to seeke the peace of the city ( what ever city it be ) because in the peace of the place gods people have peace also , ier. . tim. . &c. secondly , gods messengers are herein commanded not to prophesie or denounce a present destruction or extirpation of all false professours of the name of christ , which are whole townes , cities , and kingdomes full . ieremy did thus pluck up kingdomes in those fearfull prophecies hee poured forth against all the nations of the world , throughout his chap. . . . &c. as did also the other prophets in a measure , though none comparably to ieremy and ezekiel . such denunciations of present temporall judgements are not the messengers of the lord iesus to poure forth . t is true , many fore and fearfull plagues are poured forth upon the romane e●●perours and romane popes in the revelation , yet not to their utter extirpation or plucking up untill the harvest . thirdly , i conceive gods messengers are charged to let them alone and not pluck them up , by exciting and stirring up civill magistrates , kings , emperours , governours , parliaments , or generall cou●ts or assemblies , to pu●ish and persecute all such persons out of their dominions and territories , as worship not the true god according to the revealed will of god in christ iesus . t is 〈◊〉 eliiah thus stirred up ahab to kill all the priests and prophets of baal , ●ut that was in 〈◊〉 sig●ra●ive state of the land of canaan ( as i have already and shall further manifest ) not to be matcht or paralleld by any other state , but the spirituall state or church of christ in all the world , putting the false prophets and idolaters spiritually to death by the two-edged sword and power of the lord iesus , as that church of israel did corporally . a●d therefore ●aith paul expresly , cor. . . we must goe out of the world , in case we may not company in civill converse with idolaters &c. peace . it may be said some sorts of sinners are there mentioned , as drunkards , raylers , extortioners , who are to bee punished by the civill sword , why not idolaters also ? for although the subject may lawfully converse , buy and fell , and live with such , yet the civill magistrate shall neverthelesse be justly blamed in suffering of them . truth . i answer , the apostle in this scripture speakes not of permission of either , but expresly showes the difference betweene the church and the world , and the lawfulnesse of conversation with such persons in civill things , with whom it is not lawfull to have converse in spirituals : secretly withall foretelling , that magistrates and people , whole states and kingdomes should bee idolatrous and antichristian , yet with whom notwithstanding the saints and churches of god might lawfully cohabit , and hold civill converse and conversation . concerning their permission of what they judge idolatrous , i have and shall speake at large . peace . oh how contrary unto this command of the lord iesus have such as have conceived themselves the true messengers of the lord iesus , in all ages , not let such professours and prophets alone , whom they have judged tares , but have provoked kings and kingdomes ( and some one of good intentions and zeale to god ) to prosecute and persecute such even unto death ? amongst whom gods people ( the good wheat ) hath also beene pluckt up , as all ages and histories testifie , and too too oft the world laid upon bloody heapes in civill and intestine desolations on this occasion . all which would bee prevented , and the greatest breaches made up in the peace of our owne or other countries , were this command of the lord jesus obeyed , to wit , to let them alone untill the harvest . chap. xxviii . i shall conclude this controversie about this parable in this briefe 〈◊〉 and recapitulation of what hath beene said , i hope by the evident demonstration of gods spirit to the conscience i have 〈…〉 first , that the tares in this parable cannot signifie doctrines or practices ( as was affirmed ) but persons . secondly , the tares cannot signifie hypocrites in the church either undiscovered or discovered . thirdly , the tares here cannot signifie scandalous offenders in the church . fourthly , nor scandalous offenders in life and conversation against the civill state . fifthly , the field in which these tares are sowne , is not the church againe affirmatively : first , the field is properly the world , the civill state or common-wealth . secondly , the tares here intended by the lord iesus , are antichristian idolaters , opposite to the good seed of the kingdome , true christians . thirdly , the ministers or messengers of the lord iesus ought to let them alone to live in the world , 〈◊〉 neither seeke by prayer or prophesie to pluck them up before the harvest . fourthly , this permission or suffering of them in the field of the world , is not for hu●t , but for common good , even for the good of the good wheat , the people of god lastly , the patience of god is , and the patience of men ought to be exercised toward 〈◊〉 , and yet notwithstanding their doome is fearfull at the harvest , even gathering , bund●ng , and everlasting burnings by the mighty hand of the angels in the end of the world. chap. xxix . peace . the second scripture brought against such persecution for cause of conscience , is matth. . . where the disciples being troubled at the pharises cariage toward the lord iesus and his doctrines , and relating how they were offended at him , the lord iesus commandeth his disciples to let them alone , and gives this 〈◊〉 , that the blinde lead the blinde , and both should fall into the ditc● . unto which , answer is made , that it makes nothing to the cause , because it was spoken to his private disciples , and not to publique officers in church or state : and also , because it was spoken in regard of not troubling themselves , or regarding the offence which the pharises tooke . truth . i answer , ( to passe by his assertion of the privacie of the apostles ) in that the lord iesus commanding to let them alone , that is , not onely not be offended themselves , but not to meddle with them ; it appeares it was no ordinance of god nor christ for the disciples to have gone further , and have complained to , and excited the civill magistrate to his duty : which if it had been an ordinance of god and christ , either for the vindicating of christs doctrine , or the recovering of the pharises , or the preserving of others from infection , the lord iesus would never have commanded them to omit that which should have tended to these holy ends . chap. xxx . peace . it may be said , that neither the romane caesar , nor herod , no● pilate knew ought of the true god , or of christ ; and it had been in vaine to have made complaint to them who were not sit and competent , but ignorant and opposite iudges . truth . i answer first , this removes ( by the way ) that stumbling block which many fall at , to wit , pauls appealing to caesar ; which since he could not in common sense doe unto caesar as a competent iudge in such cases , and wherein he should have also denied his own apostleship or office , in which regard ( to wit in matters of christ ) he was higher then caesar himselfe : it must needs follow , that his appeale was meerly in respect of his civill wrongs , and false accusations of sedition , &c. secondly , if it had been an ordinance of god , that all civill magistrates were bound to judge in causes spirituall or christian , as to suppresse heresies , defend the faith of iesus ; although that caesar , herod , pilate were wicked , ignorant and opposite , yet the disciples and the lord christ himselfe had been bound to have performed the duty of faithfull subjects , for the preventing of further evill , and the clearing of themselves , and so to have left the matter upon the magistrates care and conscience , by complaining unto the magistrate against such evils ; for every person is bound to goe so far as lies in his power for the preventing and the redressing of evill ; and where it stops in any , and runs nor cleere , there the guilt , like filth or mud , will lie . thirdly , had it been the holy purpose of god to have established the doctrine and kingdome of his son this way , since his comming , he would have furnished common-weales , kingdomes , cities , &c. then and since , with such temporall powers and magistrates as should have been excellently sit and competent : for he that could have had legions of angels , if he so pleased , could as easily have been , and still be furnished with legions of good and gracious magistrates to this end and purpose . chap. xxxi . it is generally said , that god hath in former rimes , and doth still , and will hereafter stirre up kings and queenes , &c. i answer , that place of isa. . . will appeare to be far from proving such kings and queenes iudges of ecclesiasticall causes : and if not iudges , they may not punish . in spirituall things , themselves are subject to the church , and censures of it , although in civill respects superior . how shall those kings and queenes be supreme governours of the church , and yet lick the dust of the churches feet ? as it is there exprest . thirdly , gods israel of old were earnest with god for a king , for an arme of flesh , for a king to protect them , as other nations had . gods israel still have ever been restlesse with god for an arme of flesh . god gave them saul in his anger , and took him away in his wrath : and god hath given many a saul in his anger , that is , an arm of flesh in the way of his providence , ( though i judge not all persons whom saul in his calling typed out , to be of sauls spirit ) for i speake of a state and outward visible power only . i adde , god will take away such stayes on whom gods people rest , in his wrath , that king david , that is , christ iesus the antitype , in his own spirituall power in the hands of the saints , may spiritually and for ever be advanced . and therefore i conclude , it was in one respect that the lord iesus said , let them alone , because it was no ordinance for any disciple of iesus to prosecute the pharises at caesars bar. beside , let it be seriously considered by such as plead for present corporall punishment , as conceiving that such sinners ( though they breake nor civill peace ) should not escape unpunished , i say , let it be considered , though for the present their punishment is deferred , yet the punishment inflicted on them will be found to amount to an higher pitch then any corporall punishment in the world beside , and that in these foure respects . chap. xxxii . first by just judgement from god false teachers are starke blinde , gods sword hath strucke out the right eye of their minde and spirituall underderstanding , ten thousand times a greater punishment then if the magistrate should command both the right and left eye of their bodies to bee bored or pluckt out , and that in so many fearfull respects if the blindenesse of the soule and of the body were a little compared together , whether we looke at that want of guidance , or the want of joy and pleasure , which the light of the eye affordeth ; or whether we looke at the damage , shame , deformity and danger , which blindenesse brings to the outward man , and much more true in the want of the former , and miseris of the latter in spirituall and soule blindenesse to all eternity . secondly , how fearfull is that wound that no balme in gilead can cure ? how d●eadfull is that blindenesse which for ever to all eye-salve is incurable ? for if persons be wilfully and desperately obstinate ( after light shining forth ) let them alone faith the lord. so spake the lord once of ephraim , ephraim is joyned to idolls , let him alone , hos. . what more lamentable condition then when the lord hath given a poor sinner over as a hopelesse patient , incurable , which we are wont to account a ●orer affliction , then if a man were torne and rack'd , &c. and this i speake not that i conceive that all whom the lord iesus commands his servants to passe from , and let alone , to permit and tolerate ( when it is in their power corporally to molest them ) i say that all are thus ●●cura●le , yet that sometimes that word is spoken by christ jesus to ●is servants to be patient , for neither can corporall or spirituall 〈◊〉 or physicke ever heale or cure ●●em . thirdly , their end is the ditch , that bottomlesse pit of everlasting separation 〈◊〉 the holy and sweet presence of the father of lights , goodnesse and mercy it selfe , enalesse , 〈◊〉 , in extremity , universality , and eternity of torments , which most direfull and lamen●able downefall , should strike a ●oly fear & trembling into all 〈◊〉 see the pit , whith●● 〈…〉 are ●umbling , and cause us to strive so far as 〈…〉 by the spirituall eye-salve of the word of god to heale and 〈…〉 ●hei● soule-destroying blindenesse . 〈◊〉 , of those that fall into this ●●e●●full ditch , both leader and followers , how deplorable in more especiall manner is the leaders case , upon whose necke the followers tumble , the ruine not only of his owne soule , being horrible , but also the ruine of the followers soules eternally galling and tormenting . peace . some will say these things are indeed full of horrour , yet such is the state of all sinners and of many malefactours , whom yet the state is bound to punish , and sometimes by death it selfe . truth . i answer , the civill magistrate beareth not the sword in vaine , but to cut off civill offences , yea and the offendours too in case : but what is this to a blinde pharisce , resisting the doctrine of christ , who happily may be as good a subject , and as peaceable and profitable to the civill state as any , and for his spirituall offence against the lord iesus , in denying him to be the true christ , he suffereth the vengeance of a dreadfull judgement both present and eternall , as before . chap. xxxiii . peace . yea but it is said that the blinde pharises misguiding the subjects of a civill state , greatly sinne against a civill state , and therefore justly suffer civill punishment ; for shall the civill magistrate take care of outsides only , to wit , of the bodies of men , and not of soules , in labouring to procure their everlasting welfare ? truth . i answer , it is a truth , the mischiefe of a blinde pharises blinde guidance is greater then if he acted treasons , murders , &c. and the losse of one soule by his seduction is a greater mischiefe then if he blew up parliaments , and cuts the throats of kings or emperours , so pretious is that invaluable jewell of a soul , above all the present lives and bodies of all the men in the world i and therefore a firme justice calling for eye for eye , tooth for tooth , life for life ; calls also soule for soule , which the blinde-guiding seducing pharisee shall surely pay in that dreadfull ditch , which the lord jesus speakes of , but this sentence against him the lord jesus only pronounceth in his church , his spirituall judicature , and executes this sentence in part at present and hereafter to all eternity : such a sentence no civill iudge can passe , such a death no civill sword can in●lict . i answer secondly , dead men cannot be infected , the civill state the world , being in a naturall state dead in sin ( what ever be the state-religion unto which persons are forced ) it is impossible it should be infected : indeed the living , the beleeving , the church and spirituall state , that and that onely is capable of infection ; for whose helpe we shall presently see what preservatives , and remedies the lord iesus hath appointed . moreover as we see in a common plague or infection the names are taken how many are to dye , and not one more shall be strucke , then the destroying angel hath the names of . so here , what ever be the soule infection breathed out from they lying lips of a plague-sicke pharisee , yet the names are taken , not one elect or chosen of god shall perish , gods sheep are safe in his eternall hand and counsell , and he that knowes his materiall , knows also his mysticall stars , their numbers , and calls them every one by name , none fall into the ditch on the blinde pharises backe , but such as were ordained to that condemnation , both guid and followers , pet. . . iude . the vessells of wrath shall breake and split , and only they to the praise of gods eternall justice , rom. . chap. xxxiv . peace . but it is said , be it granted that in a common plague or infection none are smitten and dye but such as are appointed , yet it is not only every mans duty , but the common duty of the magistrate to prevent infection , and to preserve the common health of the place ; likewise though the number of the elect be sure , and god knowes who are his , yet hath he appointed meanes for their preservation from perdition , and from infection , and therefore the angel is blamed for suffering balaams doctrine , and iesabel to seduce christ jesus his servants , rev. . tit. . . rom. . . truth . i answer , let that scripture and that of titus reject an hereticke , and rom. . . avoid them that are contentious , &c. let them , and all of like nature be examined , and it will appeare that the great and good physitian christ iesus , the head of the body , and king of the church hath not been unfaithfull in providing spirituall antidotes and preservatives against the spirituall sicknesses , sores , weaknosses , dangers of his church and people ; but he never appointed the civill sword for either antidote or remedy , as an addition to those spiritualls , which he hath left with his wife , his church or people . hence how great is the bondage , the captivity of gods owne people to babylonish or confused mixtures in worship , and unto worldly and earthly policies to uphold state religions or worships , since that which is written to the angel and church at pergamus , shall be interpreted as sent to the governour and city of pergamus , and that which is sent to titus , and the church of christ at creet must be delivered to the civill officers and city thereof . but as the civill magistrate hath his charge of the bodies and goods of the subject : so have the spirituall officers , governours and overseers of christs city or kingdome , the charge of their souls , and soule safety : hence that charge of paul to tim. tim. . . them that sinne rebuke before all , that others may learne to fear . this is in the church of christ a spirituall meanes for the healing of a soule that hath sinned , or taken infection , and for the preventing of the infecting of others , that others may learne to feare , &c. chap. xxxv . peace . it is said true that titus and timothy , and so the officers of the church of christ are bound to prevent soule infection : but what hinders that the magistrate should not be charged also with this duty ? truth . i answer , many things i have answered , and more shall ; at present i shall only say this : if it be the magistrate duty or office , then is he both a temporall and ecclesiasticall officer ; contrary to which most men will affirme : and yet we know the policie of our owne land and country hath established to the kings and queens thereof , the supreme heads or governours of the church of england . that doctrine and distinction that a magistrate may punish an heretick civilly will not here availe ; for what is babel if this be not confusedly to punish corporall or civill offences with spirituall or church censures ( the offendour not being a member of it ) or to punish soule or spirituall offences with corporall or temporall weapons proper to delinquents against the temporall or civill state . lastly , woe were it with the civill magistrate ( and most intolerable burthens do they lay upon their backs that teach this doctrine ) if together with the common care and charge of the commonwealth ( the peace and safety of the towne , city , state or kingdome ) the bloud of every soule that perisheth should cry against him , unlesse he could say with paul , acts . ( in spirituall regards ) i am clear from the blould of all men , that is the bloud of soules , which was his charge to looke after , so far as his preaching went , not the bloud of bodies which belongeth to the civill magistrate . i acknowledge he ought to cherish ( as a foster-father ) the lord iesus in his truth , in his saints , to cleave unto them himselfe , and to countenance them even to the death , yea also to breake the teeth of the lions , who offer civill violence and injury unto them . but , to see all his subjects christians , to keepe such church or christians in the purity of worship , and see them doe their duty , this belongs to the head of the body christ iesus , and such spirituall officers as he hath to this purpose deputed , whose right it is according to the true paterne : abimelech , saul , adonijah , athalia were but usurpers : david , salomon , ioash , &c. they were the true heires and types of christ iesus in his true power and authority in his kingdome . chap. xxxvi . peace . the next scripture brought against such persecution is luke . , . where the lord jesus reproved his disciples , who would have had fire come downe from heaven , and devoure those samaritanes● that would not receive him in these words : you know not of what spirit you are , the son of man is not come to destroy mens lives , but to save them . with this scripture mr. cotton joynes the fourth , and answers both in one , which is this , tim. . . the servant of the lord must not strive , but must be gentle toward all men , suffering the evill men , instructing them with meeknesse that are contrary minded and oppose themselves , proving if god peradventure will give them repentance that they may acknowledge the truth , and that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the divell who are taken captive by him at his will. unto both these scriptures it pleaseth him thus to answer : both these are directions to ministers of the gospel how to deale ( not with obstinate offendors in the church who sin against conscience , but ) either with men without as the samaritanes were , and many unconverted christians in creet , whom titus ( as an evangelist ) was to seek to convert : ot at best with some iewes or gentiles in the church , who though carnall , yet were not convinced of the errour of their way : and it is true it became not the spirit of the gospel to convert aliens to the faith ( such as the samaritanes were ) by fire and brimstone , nor to deale harshly in publicke ministery or private conference with all such severall minded men as either had not yet entred into church fellowship , or if they had did hitherto sin of ignorance , not against conscience : but neither of both these texts doe hinder the minister of the gospel to proceed in a church way against church members , when they become scandalous offenders either in life o● doctrine , much lesse doe they speake at all to the civill magistrate . chap. xxxvii . truth . this perplexed and ravelled answer , wherein so many things and so doubtfull are wrapt up and intangled together , i shall take in pieces . first , concerning that of the lord iesus rebuking his disciples for their rash and ignorant bloudy zeale ( luc. . ) desiring corporall destruction upon the samaritanes for refusing the lord iesus , &c. the answerer affirmeth , that hindreth not the ministers of the gospell to proceed in a church way against scandalous offenders , which is not here questioned , but maintained to bee the holy will of the lord , and a sufficient censure and punishment , if no civill offence against the civill state be committed . secondly ( saith hee ) much lesse doth this speake at all to the civill magistrate . where i observe that he implyes that beside the censure of the lord iesus , in the hands of his spirituall governours , for any spirituall evill in life or doctrine , the civill magistrate is also to inflict corporall punishment upon the contrary minded : whereas first , if the civill magistrate be a christian , a disciple or follower of the meeke lambe of god , he is bound to be far from destroying the bodies of men , for refusing to receive the lord iesus christ , for otherwise hee should not know ( according to this speech of the lord iesus ) what spirit he was of yea and to be ignorant of the sweet end of the comming of the son of man , which was not to destroy the bodies of men , but to save both bodies and soules , vers . . . secondly , if the civill magistrate , being a christian , gifted , prophesie in the church , corinth . . . although the lord iesus christ , whom they in their owne persons hold forth , shall be refused , yet they are here forbidden to call for fire from heaven , that is , to procure or inflict any corporall judgement upon such offenders , remembring the end of the lord iesus his comming , not to destroy mens lives , but to save them . lastly , this also concernes the conscience of the civill magistrate , as he is bound to preserve the civill peace and quiet of the place and people under him , he is bound to suffer no man to breake the civill peace , by laying hands of violence upon any , though as vile as the samaritanes for not receiving of the lord iesus christ. it is indeed the ignorance and blinde zeale of the second beast , the false prophet , rev. . . to perswade the civill powers of the earth to persecute the saints , that is , to bring fiery judgements upon men in a judiciall way , and to pronounce that such judgements of imprisonment , banishment , death , proceed from gods righteous vengeance upon such hereticks . so dealt divers bishops in france , and england too in queene maries dayes with the saints of god at their putting to death , declaiming against them in their sermons to the people , and proclaiming that these persecutions even unto death were gods just judgements from heaven upon these heretickes . chap. xxxviii . peace . doubtlesse such fiery spirits ( as the lord jesus said ) are not of god : i pray speake to the second place out of timothy , . epist. . . truth . i acknowledge this instruction to be meeke and patient , &c. is properly an instruction to the ministers of the gospel . yet divers arguments from hence will truly and fairly be collected , to manifest and evince how farre the civill magistrate ought to bee from dealing with the civill sword in spirituall cases . and first by the way● i desire to aske , what were these unconverted christians in crete , which the answerer compareth with the samaritanes , whom titus ( saith he ) as an evangelist was to seek to convert ; and whether the lord iesus have any such disciples and followers , who yet are visibly in an unconverted estate . o that it may please the father of mercies , the father of lights , to awaken and open the eyes of all that feare before him , that they may see whether this be the language of canaan , or the language of ashdod . what is an unconverted christian but in truth an unconverted convert ? that is in english , one unturned turned : unholy holy : disciples or followers of iesus not following of him : in a word , that is christians or anointed by christ , antichristians not anointed with the spirit of iesus christ. certaine it is , such they were not unto whom the spirit of god gives that name , act. . and indeed whither can this tend but to uphold the blasphemy of so many as say they are iewes , that is , christians , but are not ? rev. . but as they are not christians from christ , but from the beast and his picture , so their proper name from antichrist , is antichristians . how sad yet and how true an evidence is this , that the soule of the answerer ( i speake not of his inward soule and person , but of his worship ) hath never yet heard the call of the lord iesus , to come out from those unconverted churches , from that unconverted antichristian christian world , and so from antichrist belial , to seeke fellowship with christ iesus , and his converted christians , disciples after the first patterne . againe , i observe the haste and light attention of the answerer to these scriptures ( as commonly the spirits of gods children in matters of christs kingdome are very sleepy ) for these persons here spoken of were not ( as he speakes ) unconverted christians in crete , whom titus as an evangelist was to convert , but they were such opposites as timothy ( to whom paul writes this letter at ephesus ) should meet withall . chap. xxxix . peace . but what is there in this scripture of timothy alledged concerning the civill magistracy ? truth . i argue from this place of timothy in particular , thus . first , if the civill magistrates hee christians , or members of the church , able to prophesie in the church of christ , then i say as before , they are bound by this command of christ to suffer opposition to their doctrine , with meeknesse and gentlenesse , and to be so farre from striving to subdue their opposites with the civill sword , that they are bound with patience and meeknesse to wait if god peradventure will please to grant repentance unto their opposites . so also it pleaseth the answerer to acknowledge in these words : it becomes not the spirit of the gospel to convert aliens to the faith ( such as the samaritanes , and the unconverted christians in crete ) with fire and brimstone . secondly , be they oppositions within , and church members ( as the answerer speakes ) become scandalous in doctrine , ( i speake not of scandals against the civill state , which the civill magistrate ought to punish ) it is the lord onely ( as this scripture to timothy implyes ) who is able to give them repentance , and recover them out of sathans snare : to which end also he hath appointed those holy and dreadfull censures in his church or kingdome . true it is , the sword may make ( as once the lord complained , isa. . ) a whole nation of hypocrites : but to recover a soule from sathan by repentance , and to bring them from antichristian doctrine or worship , to the doctrine or worship christian , in the least true internall or externall submission , that only works the all-powerfull god , by the sword of his spirit in the hand of his spirituall officers . what a most wofull proofe hereof have the nations of the earth given in all ages ? and to seeke no further then our native soyle , within a few scores of yeeres , how many wonderfull changes in religion hath the whole kingdome made , according to the change of the governours thereof , in the severall religious which they themselves imbraced ! henry the . finds and leaves the kingdome absolutely popish . henry the . casts it into a mould half popish halfe protestant . edward the . brings forth an edition all protestant . queene mary within few yeares defaceth edwards worke , and renders the kingdome ( after her grandfather hen. . his pattern ) all popish . maries short life and religion ends together : and elizabeth reviveth her brother edwards modell , all protestant : and some eminent witnesses of gods truth against antichrist , have enclined to believe , that before the downfall of that beast , england must once againe how down her faire neck to his proud usurping yoake and foot . peace . it hath been englands sinfull shame , to fashion & change their garments and religions with wondrous ease and lightnesse , as a higher power , a stronger sword hath prevailed ; after the ancient patterne of nebuchaanezzars bowing the whole world in one most solemne uniformitie of worship to his golden image , dan. . chap. xl. but it hath been thought , or said , shall oppositions against the truth escape unpunished ? will they not prove mischievous , &c. truth . i answer ( as before ) concerning the blinde guides ( in case there be no civill offence committed ) the magistrates , & all men that by the mercy of god to themselves discerne the miserie of such opposites , have cause to lament and bewaile that fearfull condition wherein such are entangled , to wit , in the snares & chains of satan , with which they are so invincibly caught and held , that no power in heaven or earth , but the right hand of the lord in the meeke and gentle dispensing of the word of truth , can release and quit them . those many false christs ( of whom the lord jesus forewarnes , mat. . ) have sutably their false bodies , faith , spirit , baptisme , as the lord jesus , hath his true body , faith , spirit , &c. ephes. . correspondent also are their weapons , and the successe , issue , or operation of them . a carnall weapon or sword of steele may produce a carnall repentance , a shew , an outside , an uniformitie through a state or kingdome : but it hath pleased the father to exalt the lord iesus only , to be a prince ( armed with power and meanes sufficient ) to give repentance to israel , acts . . accordingly an unbelieving soule being dead in sinne ( although he be changed from one worship to another , like a dead man shifted into severall changes of apparell ) cannot please god , heb. . and consequently , whatever such an unbelieving & unregenerate person acts in worship or religion , it is but sinne , rom. . preaching sinne , praying ( though without beads or booke ) sinne ; breaking of bread , or lords supper sinne , yea as odious as the oblation of swines blood , a dogs neck , or killing of a man , isa. . but faith it is that gift which proceeds alone from the father of lights , phil. . . and till he please to make his light arise and open the eyes of blind sinners , their soules shall lie fast asleep ( and the faster , in that a sword of steele compells them to a worship in hypocrisie ) in the dungeons of spirituall darknesse and sathans slavery . peace . i adde , that a civill sword ( as wofull experience in all ages hath proved ) is so far from bringing or helping forward an opposite in religion to repentance , that magistrates sinne grievously against the worke of god and blood of soules , by such proceedings . because as ( commonly ) the suffrings of false and antichristian teachers harden their followers , who being blind , by this meanes are occasioned to tumble into the ditch of hell after their blind leaders , with more inflamed zeale of lying confidence . so secondly , violence and a sword of steele begets such an impression in the sufferers , that certainly they conclude ( as indeed that religion cannot be true which needs such instruments of violence to uphold it so ) that persecutors are far from soft and gentle commiseration of the blindnesse of others . to this purpose it pleased the father of spirits , of old , to constraine the emperour of rome , antoninus pius , to write to all the governours of his provinces to forbeare to persecute the christians , because such dealing must needs be so far from converting the christians from their way , that it rather begat in their mindes an opinion of their crueltie , &c. chap. xli . peace . the next scripture against such persecution , is that of the prophet , isa. . together with mic. . . they shall break their swords into plough-shares , and their speares into pruning-hookes , isa. . . there shall none hurt or destroy in all the mountaine of my holinesse . unto which it pleased mr. cotton to say , that these predictions doe onely shew , first , with what kinde of weapons he should subdue the nations to the obedience of the faith of the gospell , not by fire and sword , and weapons of war , but by the power of the word and spirit of god , which faith he , no man doubts of . secondly , those predictions of the prophets shew , what the meeke and peaceable temper will be of all true converts to christianity ; not lyons or leopards , not cruell oppressors nor malignant opposers or biters one of another : but doth not forbid them to drive ravenous wolves from the sheep-fold , and to restraine them from devouring the sheep of christ. truth . in this first excellent and truly christian answer , me thinks the answerer may heare a voyce from heaven , out of thine owne mouth will i judge thee : for what can be said more heavenly by the tongues of men and angels , to shew the heavenly meek temper of all the souldiers of the lambe of god , as also to set forth what are the spirituall weapons and ammunition of the holy war and battle of the gospell and kingdome of iesus christ , for the subduing of the nations of the world unto him . peace . and yet out of the same mouth ( which should not be , faith iames ) proceeds good and evill , sweet and sowre ; for he addes : but this doth not forbid them to drive ravenous wolves from the sheepfold , and to restraine them from devouring the sheepe of christ. truth . in these words ( according to the judgement here maintained by him ) he fights against the former truth ( to wit , that by spirituall weapons christ iesus will subdue the nations of the earth to the obedience of the gospel ) for by driving away these wolves hee intends not onely the resistance and violence which the shepherds of christ ought spiritually to make , but the civill resistance of the materiall swords , staves guns , &c. whence● i argue , that same power that forceth the evill ( or wolves ) out , forceth the good ( the sheepe ) in ; for of the same or like things is the same or like reason ; as the same arme of flesh that with a staffe beats off a wolfe , with a rod and hooke brings in the sheepe : the same dog that assaulteth and teareth the wolfe , frighteth and forceth in the straggling sheep . chap. xlii . peace . bvt for the clearer opening of this mystery , i pray explicate that scripture where the spirit of god is pleased to use this similitude of wolves , acts . . out of which ( keeping to the allegory ) i shall propose these quaeries . first , what wolves were these paul warnes of ? truth . answ. wolves literally he will not say : nor secondly , persecutors of the flock , such as the romane emperours were , magistrates under him . therefore ( thirdly ) such as brought other religions and worships , as the spirit of god opens it , vers . . such as amongst themselves should speake perverse things , as many antichrists did , and especially the antichrist . and i aske whether or no such as may hold forth other worships or religions , ( iewes , turkes , or antichristians ) may not be peaceable and quiet subjects , loving and helpfull neighbours , faire and just dealers , true and loyall to the civill government ? it is cleare they may from all reason and experience in many flourishing cities and kingdomes of the world , and so offend not against the civill state and peace ; nor incurre the punishment of the civill sword , notwithstanding that in spirituall and mysticall account they are ravenous and greedy wolves . peace . . i quaere to whom paul gave this charge to watch against them , vers . . truth . they were not the magistrates of the city of ephesus , but the elders or ministers of the church of christ ( his mysticall flock of sheepe ) at ephesus : vnto them was this charge of watching given , and so consequently of driving away these wolves . and however that many of these charges and exhortations given by that one shepherd christ iesus to the shepherds or ministers of churches , be commonly attributed and directed ( by the answerer in this discourse ) to the civill magistrate ; yet i desire in the feare and holy presence of god it may bee inquired into , whether in all the will or testament of christ there bee any such word of christ by way of command , promise , or example , countenancing the governors of the civill state to meddle with these wolves , if in civill things peaceable and obedient . peace . truly if this charge were given to the magistrates at ephesus , or any magistrate in the world , doubtlesse they must bee able to discerne and determine ( out of their owne officiall abilities in these spirituall law questions ) who are spirituall sheep , what is their food , what their poison , what their properties , who their keepers , &c. so on the contrary who are wolves , what their properties , their haunts , their assaults , the manner of taking , &c. spiritually : ( and this beside the care and study of the civill lawes , and the discerning of his owne proper civill sheep , obedient sheepe , &c. as also wolvish oppressors , &c. whom he is bound to punish and suppresse ) truth . i know that civill magistrates ( in some places ) have declined the name of head of the church , and ecclesiasticall judge , yet can they not with good conscience decline the name , if they doe the worke , and performe the office of determining and punishing a meerly spirituall wolfe . they must be sufficiently also able to judge in all spirituall causes , and that with their owne , and not with other mens eyes , ( no more then they doe in civill causes ) contrary to the common practice of the governours and rulers of civill states , who often set up that for a religion or worship to god , which the clergie or churchmen ( as men speake ) shall in their consciences agree upon . and if this be not so , to wit , that magistrates must not be spirituall iudges ( as some decline it in the title , supreme head and governour ) why is gallio wont to be exclaimed against for refusing to be a iudge in such matters as concerned the iewish worship and religion ? how is he censured for a prophane person , without conscience , &c. in that he would bee no iudge or head ? ( for that is all one in point of government . ) peace . in the third place i quaerie whether the father who gave , and the sonne who keepes the sheepe , bee not greater then all ? who can pluck these sheepe the elect out of his hand , which answers that common objection of that danger of devouring , although there were no other weapons in the world appointed by the lord jesus . but chap. xliii . fourthly , i ask , were not these elders or ministers of the church of ephesus sufficiently furnished from the lord iesus to drive away these mysticall and spirituall wolves ? truth . true it is , against the inhumane and uncivill violence of persecutors , they were not , nor are gods children able and provided : but to resist , drive away , expell , and kill spirituall & mysticall wolves by the word of the lord , none are fit to be christs shepherds who are not able● tit. . . . . the bishop or overseer must be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers : which gainsayers to be by him convinced , that is , overcome or subdued ( though it may be in themselves ever obstinate ) they were i say as greedy wolves in crete , as any could be at ephesus : for so saith paul vers . . they were unruly and vaine talkers , deceivers , whose mouthes must bee stopped , who subverted whole houses ; and yet titus ( and every ordinary shepherd of a flocke of christ ) had ability sufficient to defend the flock from spirituall and mysticall wolves without the helpe of the civill magistrate . peace . in this respect therefore me thinks we may ●itly allude to that excellent answer of iob to bildad the shuhite , iob . how hast thou helped him that is without power ? how savest thou the arme that hath no strength ? how hast thou counselled him that hath no wisedome ? how hast thou plentifully declared the thing as it is ? . lastly , i ask , whether ( as men deale with wolves ) these wolves as ephesus were intended by paul to be killed , their braines dasht out with stones , staves , halberts , guns , &c. in the hands of the elders of ephesus , & c ? truth . doubtlesse ( comparing spirituall things with spirituall ) all such mysticall wolves must spiritually and mystically so be slain . and the witnesses of truth , revel . . speake fire , and kill all that hurt them , by that sierie word of god , and that two-edged sword in their hand , psal. . but oh what streames of the blood of saints have been and must be shed ( untill the lambe have obtained the victorie , revel . . ) by this unmercifull ( and in the state of the new testament , when the church is spread all the world over ) most bloody doctrine , viz. the wolves ( hereticks ) are to be driven away , their braines knock● out and killed , the poore sheepe to be preserved for whom christ died , &c. is not this to take christ iesus , and make him a temporall king by force ? iohn . . is not this to make his kingdome of this world , to set up a civill and temporall israel , to bound out new earthly holy lands of canaan , yea and to set up a spanish inquisition in all parts of the world , to the speedy destruction of thousands , yea of millions of soules , and the frustrating of the sweet end of the comming of the lord iesus , to wit , to save mens soules ( and to that end not to destroy their bodies ) by his own blood ? chap. xliv . peace . the next scripture produced against such persecution , is cor. . . the weapons of our warfare are not carnall , but mighty through god to the pulling down of strong holds , casting down imaginations , and every high thing that exalteth it selfe against the knowledge of god , and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of christ , and having in a readinesse to avenge all disobedience , &c. unto which it is answered , when paul saith , the weapons of our warfare are not carnall , but spirituall : he denieth not civill weapons of iustice to the civill magistrate , rom. . but only to church-officers : and yet the weapons of church officers he acknowledgeth to be such , as though they be spirituall , yet are ready to take vengeance on all disobedience , cor. . . which hath reference , amongst other ordinances , to the censures of the church against scandalous offenders . truth . i acknowledge that herein the spirit of god denieth not civill weapons of justice to the civill magistrate , which the scripture he quotes , rom. . abundantly testifie . yet withall i must aske , why he here affirmeth the apostle denies not civill weapons of justice to the civill magistrate ? of which there is no question , unlesse that ( according to his scope of proving persecution for conscience ) he intends withall , that the apostle denies not civill weapons of justice to the civill magistrate in spirituall and religious causes : the contrary whereunto ( the lord assisting ) i shall evince , both from this very scripture , and his owne observation , and lastly by that of the romanes , by himsefe quoted . first then from this scripture and his owne observation : the weapons of church officers ( saith he ) are such , which though they be spirituall , are ready to take vengeance on all disobedience ; which hath reference ( saith he ) amongst other ordinances , to the censures of the church against scandalous offenders . i hence observe , that there being in this scripture held forth a two-fold state , a civill state and a spirituall , civill officers and spirituall , civill weapons and spirituall weapons , civill vengeance and punishment , and a spirituall vengeance and punishment : although the spirit speakes not here expresly of civill magistrates and their civill weapons , yet these states being of different natures and considerations , as far differing as spirit from flesh , i first observe , that civill weapons are most improper and unfitting in matters of the spirituall state and kingdome , though in the civill state most proper and sutable . chap. xlv . for ( to keepe to the similitude which the spirit useth , for instance ) to batter downe a strong hold , high wall , fort , tower or castle , men bring not a first and second admonition , and after obstinacie , excommunication , which are spirituall weapons concerning them that be in the church : nor exhortations to repent and be baptized , to beleeve in the lord jesus , &c. which are proper weapons to them that be without , &c. but to take a strong hold , men bring canons , culverins , saker , bullets , powder , musquets , swords , pikes , &c. and these to this end are weapons effectuall and proportionable . on the other side , to batter downe idolatry , false worship , heresie , schisme , blindnesse , hardnesse , out of the soule and spirit , it is vaine , improper , and unsutable to bring those weapons which are used by persecutors , stocks , whips , prisons , swords , gibbets , stakes , &c. ( where these seem to prevaile with some cities or kingdomes , a stronger force sets up againe , what a weaker pull'd downe ) but against these spirituall strong holds in the soules of men , spirituall artillery and weapons are proper , which are mighty through god to subdue and bring under the very thought to obedience , or else to binde fast the soule with chaines of darknesse , and locke it up in the prison of unbeleefe and hardnesse to eternity . . i observe that as civill weapons are improper in this businesse , and never able to effect ought in the soule : so ( although they were proper , yet ) they are unnecessary , for if as the spirit here saith ( and the answerer grants ) spirituall weapons in the hand of church officers are able and ready to take vengeance on all disobedience , that is able and mighty , sufficient and ready for the lords worke either to save the soule , or to kill the soule of whomsoever , be the party or parties opposite , in which respect i may againe remember that speech of iob , how hast thou helped him that hath no power ? iob . peace . offer this ( as malachie once spake ) to the governours the kings of the earth , when they besiege , beleagure , and assault great cities , castles , forts , &c. should any subject pretending his service bring store of pins , sticks , strawes , bulrushes , to beat and batter downe stone walls , mighty bulwarkes , what might his expectation and reward be , but at least the censure of a man distract , beside himself ? &c. truth . what shall we then conceive of his displeasure , ( who is the chiefe or prince of the kings of the earth , and rides upon the word of truth and meeknesse , which is that white horse , rev. . and rev. . with his holy witnesses the white troopers upon white horses ) when to his helpe and aid men bring and adde such unnecessary , improper and weake munition ? will the lord iesus ( did he ever in his owne person practice , or did he appoint to ) joyne to his breastplate of righteousnesse , the breastplate of iron and steele ? to the helmet of righteousnesse and salvation in christ , an helmet and crest of iron , brasse , or steel , a target of wood to his shield of faith ? his two edged sword comming forth of the mouth of iesus , the materiall sword , the worke of smiths and cutlers ? or a girdle of shooes leather to the girdle of truth , &c. excellently fit and proper is that alarme and item , psal. . be wise therefore o ye kings ( especially those ten horns , rev. . ) who under pretence of fighting for christ iesus give their power to the beast against him , and be warned ye iudges of the earth : kisse the son , that is with subjection and affection , acknowledge him only the king and iudge of soules ( in that power bequeathed to his ministers and churches ) lest if his wrath be kindled , yea but a little , then blessed are they that trust in him. chap. xlvi . peace . now in the second place concerning that scripture , rom. . which it pleaseth the answerer to quote , and himselfe , and so many excellent servants of god have insisted upon to prove such persecution for conscience ; how have both he and they wrested this scripture ( not as peter writes of the wicked , to their eternall , yet ) to their owne and others temporall destruction by civill wars and combustions in the world ? my humble request therefore is to the father of lights , to send out the bright beames of the sun of righteousnesse , and to scatter the mist which that old serpent , the great jugler sathan , hath raised about this holy scripture , and my request to you ( divine truth ) is for your care and paines to inlighten and cleare this scripture . truth . first then upon the serious examination of this whole scripture it will appeare that from the ninth verse of chap. to the end of this whole chap. the spirit handles the duties of the saints in the carefull observation of the second table in their civil conversation , or walking towards men , and speaks not at all of any point or matter of the first table concerning the kingdome of the lord iesus . for , having in the whole epistle handled that great point of free iustification by the free grace of god in christ● in the beginning of the chap. he exhorts the beleevers to give and dedicate themselves unto the lord both in soule and body , and unto the verse of the chap. he expressely mentioneth their conversation in the kingdome or body of christ iesus , together with the severall officers thereof . and from the ver . to the end of the he plainly discourseth of their civill conversation , and walking , one toward another● and with all men , from whence he hath faire occasion to speake largely concerning their subjection to magistrates in the chap. hence it is that verse of this chap. paul exhorts to performance of love to all men ( magistrates and subjects ) verse . . render therefore to all their due , tribute to whom tribute is due , custome to whom custome , feare to whom feare , honour to whom honour . owe nothing to any man , but to love one another , for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law. if any man doubt ( as the papists speak ) whether a man may perfectly fulfill the law ; every man of found judgement is ready to answer him that these words [ he that loveth hath fulfilled the law ] concerneth not the whole law in the first table , that is the worship and kingdome of god in christ. secondly , that the apostle speaks not here of perfect observation of the second table without failing in word or act toward men , but layes open the summe and sustance of the law , which is love , and that he that walkes by the rule of love toward all men ( magistrates and subjects ) he hath rightly attained unto what the law aimes at , and so in evangelicall obedience fulfills and keeps the law. hence therefore againe in the verse having discoursed of the command in this point of superiours , he makes all the rest of the commandements of the second table , which concerne our walking with man ( viz. thou shalt not kill , thou shalt not commit adultery , thou shalt not steale , thou shalt not beare false witnesse , thou shalt not covet : and if there be any other commandement , to be briefly comprehended in this saying , namely , thou shalt love thy neighbour as thy selfe . and verse love worketh no ill to his neighbour , therefore love is the fulfilling of the law , that is ( as before ) the law concerning our civill conversation toward all men , magistrates or governours , and fellow subjects of all conditions . chap. xlvii . peace . although the scripture is sufficient to make the man of god perfect , and the foole wise to salvation , and our faith in god must be only founded upon the rocke christ , and not upon the sand of mens judgements and opinions : yet as paul alledgeth the judgement and sayings of unbeleevers for their conviction out of their owne tenets and grants : so i pray you to set downe the words of one or two ( not unbeleevers in their persons , but excellent and prestious servants and witnesses of god in their times , whose names are sweet and pretious to all that feare god ) who although their judgement ran in the common streame , viz. that magistrates were keepers of the tables , defendors of the faith against hereticks , and notwithstanding what ever they have written for defence of their judgements , yet the light of truth so evidently shined upon their soules in this scripture , that they absolutely denied the of the romanes to concerne any matter of the first table . truth . first , i shall produce that excellent servant of god , calvin , who upon this to the romanes writes ; tot a autem haec disputatio est de civilibus praefecturis : it aque , frustr á inde sacrilegam suam tyrannidem stabilire mosiuntur qui dominatum in conscientias exerceant . but ( saith he ) this whole discourse concerneth civill magistrates , and therefore in vaine doe they who exercise power over consciences , goe about from this place to establish their sacrilegious tyranny . peace . i know how far most men ( and especially the sheep of iesus will ●lie from the thought of exercising tyranny over conscience ) that happily they will disclaime the dealing of all with mens consciences : yet if the acts and statutes which are made by them concerning the worship of god be attended to ; their profession ( and that out of zeale according to the patterne of that ceremoniall and figurative state of israel ) to suffer no other religion nor worship in their territories , but one ; their profession and practice to defend their faith from reproach and blasphemy of hereticks by civill weapons , and all that from this very of the romanes ; i say if these particulars and others be with feare and trembling in the presence of the most high examined ; the wonderfull deceit of their owne hearts shall appeare unto them , and how guilty they ●ill appeare to be of wrestling this scripture before the tribunall of the most high. truth . again calvin speaking concerning fulfilling of the law by love , writes thus on the same place : sed pauls● in totam 〈◊〉 respic● tantum de officiis lequitur , quae nobis erg●● 〈◊〉 demand●n●ur à lig● : that is , paul hath not respect unto the whole law , he speaks only of those duties which the law commands towards our neighbours , and it is manifest , that in this place by our neighbours hee meanes high and low , magistrates and subjects , unto whom we ought to walke by the rule of love , paying unto every one their due . againe , caeterùm paulus hic tantùm memînit secundae tabulae quia de ea tantum erat quaestio . but paul here only mentioneth the second table , because the question was only concerning that . and againe , quod autem repetit complementum legis esse dilectionem , intellige ( ut prius ) de ea legis parte quod hominum societatem spectat : prior enim legis tabula quae est de cultu dei minimé hic attingitur : but in that he repeateth that love is the fulfilling of the law , understand as before , that he speakes of that part of the law which respects humane society ; for the first table of the law which concerneth the worship of god is not in the least manner here touched . after calvin , his successour in geneva that holy and learned beza upon the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , if there be any other commandement it is summed up in this , thou shalt love thy neighbour as thy selfe , writes thus : tota lex nihil aliud quám amorem dei & proximi praecipit , sed tamen cum apostolus hoc ioco de mutuis hominum officiis disserat , legis vocabulum ad secundam tabulam restringendam puto . the whole law ( saith he ) commands nothing else but the love of god , and yet neverthelesse since the apostle in this place discourseth of the duties of men one toward another , i thinke this terme law ought to be restrained to the second table . chap. xlviii . peace . i pray now proceed to the second argument from this scripture against the use of civil weapons in matters of religion and spirituall worship . truth . the spirit of god here commands subjection and obedience to higher powers , even to the romane emperours and all subordinate magistrates ; and yet the emperours and governours under them were strangers from the life of god in christ , yea most averse and opposite , yea cruell and bloody persecutors of the name and followers of iesus : and yet unto these is this subjection and obedience commanded . now true it is , that as the civill magistrate is apt not to content himselfe with the majesty of an earthly throne , crowne , sword , scepter , but to seat himselfe in the throne of david in the church : so gods people ( and it may be in pauls time ) considering their high and glorious preferment and priviledges by iesus christ , were apt to be much tempted to despise civill governours , especially such as were ignorant of the son of god , and persecuted him in his servants . now then i argue , if the apostle should have commanded this subjection unto the romane emperours and romane magistrates in spirituall causes , as to defend the truth which they were no way able to discerne , but persecuted , ( and upon trust from others no magistrate ( not perswaded in his owne conscience ) is to take it . ) or else to punish hereticks , whom then also they must discerne and judge , or else condemne them as the iewes would have pilate condemne the lord iesus upon the sentence of others , i say if paul should have ( in this scripture ) put this worke upon these romane governours , and commanded the churches of christ to have yeelded subjection in any such matters , he must ( in the judgement of all men ) have put out the eye of faith and reason and sense at once . chap. xlix . peace . it is said by some , why then did paul himselfe , act. . appeale to caesar , unlesse that caesar ( though he was not , yet ) he ought to have beene a fit iudge in such matters ? truth . i answer , if paul in this appeale to caesar , had referred and submitted simply and properly the cause of christ , his ministry and ministration to the romane emperours tribunall , knowing him to be an idolatrous stranger from 〈◊〉 true god , and a lion-like bloody persecutor of the lord iesus , the lambe of god , i say let it be considered whether or no he had committed these . evils . the first against the dimmest light of reason in appealing to darknesse to judge light , to unrighteousnesse to judge righteousnesse , the spiritually blinde , to judge and end the controversie concerning heavenly colours . secondly , against the cause of religion , which if condemned by every inferiour idolater , must needs bee condemned by the caesars themselves , who ( nabuchadnezzar-like ) set up their state-images or religions , commanding the worlds uniformity of worship to them . thirdly , against the holy state and calling of the christians themselves , who ( by virtue of their subjection to christ ) even the least of them are in spirituall things above the highest potentates or emperours in the world , who continue in enmity against , or in an ignorant naturall state without christ iesus . this honour or high exaltation above all his holy ones , to binde ( not literally but spiritually ) their kings in chaines , and their nobles in linkes of iron , psal. . fourthly , against his owne calling , apostleship , or office of ministery , unto which caesar himselfe and all potentates ( in spirituall and soule matters ) ought to have submitted : and unto which in controversies of christs church and kingdome , caesar himself ought to have appealed , the church of god being built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets , ephes. . . and therefore in case that any of the romane governours , or the emperour himselfe had beene humbled and converted to christianity , by the preaching of christ , were not they themselves bound to subject themselves unto the power of the lord iesus in the hands of the apostles and churches , and might not the apostles and churches have refused to have baptized or washed them into the profession of christ iesus , upon the apprehension of their unworthinesse ? or if received into christian fellowship , were they not to stand at the bar of the lord iesus in the church , concerning either their opinions or practices , were they not to be cast out and delivered unto sathan by the power of the lord iesus , if after once and twice admonition they persist obstinate , as faithfully and impartially , as if they were the meanest in the empire : yea , although the apostles , the churches , the elders or governours thereof were poore and meane despised persons in civill respects , and were themselves bound to yeeld all faithfull and loyall obedience to such emperours and governours in civill things . were they not ( if christians ) bound themselves to have submitted to these spirituall decrees of the apostles and elders , as well as the lowest and meanest members of christ , act. ? and if so , how should paul appeale in spirituall things to caesar , or write to the churches of iesus to submite in christian or spirituall matters ? fifthly , if paul had appealed to caesar in spirituall respects , hee had greatly prophaned the holy name of god in holy things , in so improper and vaine a prostitution of spirituall things to carnall and naturall judgements , which are not able to comprehend spirituall matters , which are alone spiritually discerned , cor. . and yet caesar ( as a civill supreme magistrate ) ought to defend paul from civill violence , and sta●derous accusations about sedition , mutiny , civill disobedience , &c. and in that sense who doubts but god's people may appeale to the romane caesar , an egyptian pharach , a philistian abimelecke , an assyrian nabuchadnezzar , the great m●gol , prester iohn , the great turke , or an indian sachim ? chap. l. peace . which is the third argument against the civill magistrates power in spirituall and soule matters out of this scripture , rom. ? truth . i dispute from the nature of the magistrates weapons , vers . . he hath a sword ( which hee beares not in vaine ) delivered to him , as i acknowledge from gods appointment in the free consent and choice of the subjects for common good . we must distinguish of swords . we finde foure sorts of swords mentioned in the new testament . first , the sword of persecution , which herod stretched forth against iames , act. . secondly , the sword of gods spirit , expresly said to be the word of god , ephes. . a sword of two edges caried in the mouth of christ , rev. . which is of strong and mighty operation , piercing betweene the bones and the marrow , betweene the soule and the spirit , heb. . thirdly , the great sword of war and destruction , given to him that rides that terrible red horse of war , so that he takes peace from the earth , and men kill one another , as is most lamentably true in the slaughter of so many hundred thousand soules within these few yeares in severall parts of europe , our owne and others . none of these swords are intended in this scripture : therefore , fourthly , there is a civill sword , called the sword of civill justice ; which being of a materiall civill nature , for the defence of persons , estates , families , liberties of a city or civill state , and the suppressing of uncivill or injurious persons or actions by such civill punishment , it cannot according to its utmost reach and capacitie ( now under christ , when all nations are meerly civill , without any such typicall holy respect upon them , as was upon israel a nationall church ) i say , cannot extend to spirituall and soul-causes , spirituall and soule punishment , which belongs to that spirituall sword with two edges , the soule-piercing ( in soule-saving or soule-killing ) the word of god. chap. lii . truth . a fourth argument from this scripture i take in the . verse , from tribute , custome , &c. which is a meerly civill reward or recompence for the magistrates worke . now as the wages are , such is the worke : but the wages are meerely civill , custome , tribute , &c. not the contributions of the saints or churches of christ ( proper to the spirituall and christian state ) and such work only must the magistrate attend upon , as may properly deserve such civill wages , reward or recompence . lastly , that the spirit of god never intended to direct or warrant the magistrate to use his power in spirituall affaires and religious worship : i argue , from the terme or title it pleaseth the wisedome of god to give such civill officers , to wit , ( vers . . ) gods ministers . now at the very first blush , no man denies a double ministerie . the one appointed by christ iesus in his church , to gather , to governe , receive in , cast out , and order all the affaires of the church , the house , citie or kingdome of god , ephes. . cor. . secondly , a civill ministery or office , meerely humane and civill , which men agree to constitute ( called therefore an humane creation , ( pet. . ) and is as true and lawfull in those nations , cities , kingdomes , &c. which never heard of the true god , nor his holy sonne iesus , as in any part of the world beside , where the name of iesus is most taken up . from all which premises , viz. that the scope of the spirit of god in this chapter is to handle the matters of the second table ( having handled the matters of the first in the . ) since the magistrates of whom paul wrote , were naturall , ungodly , persecuting , and yet lawfull magistrates , and to be obeyed in all lawfull civill things . since all magistrates are gods ministers , essentially civill , bounded to a civill work , with civill weapons or instruments , and paid or rewarded with civill rewards . from all which , i say , i undeniably collect , that this scripture is generally mistaken , and wrested from the scope of gods spirit , and the nature of the place , and cannot truly be alleadged by any for the power of the civill magistrate to be exercised in spirituall and soule-matters . chap. lii . peace . against this i know many object out of the . verse of this chapter , that the magistrate is to avenge or punish evill : from whence is gathered , that heresie , false christs , false churches , false ministeries , false seales , being evill , ought to be punished civilly , &c. truth . i answer , that the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is generally opposed to civill goodnesse or virtue in a common-wealth , and not to spirituall good or religion in the church . secondly , i have proved from the scope of the place , that here is not intended evill against the spirituall or christian estate , handled in the chap. but evill against the civill state , in this . properly falling under the cognizance of the civill minister of god , the magistrate , and punishable by that civill sword of his , as an incivilitie , disorder , or breach of that civill order , peace and civility , unto which all the inhabitants of a city , town , or kingdome oblige themselves . peace . i have heard that the elders of the new-english churches , ( who yet out of this rom. maintaine persecution ) grant that the magistrate is to preserve the peace and welfare of the state , and therefore that he ought not to punish such sinnes as hurt not his peace . in particular , they say , the magistra●e may not punish secret sinnes in the soule : nor such sinnes as are yet handling in the church in a private way : nor such sinnes which are private in families ; and therefore they say , the magistrate transgresteth to prosecute complaints of children against their parents , servants agai●st masters , wives against husbands , ( and yet this proper to the civill state ) nor such sinnes as are between the members and churches themselves . and they confesse , that if the magistrate punish , and the church punish , there will be a greater rent in their peace . truth . from thence ( sweet peace ) may we well observe , first , the magistrate is not to punish all evill , according to this their confession . the distinction of private and publike evill will not here availe , because such as urge that terme evill , viz , that the magistrate is to punish evill , urge it strictly , eo nomine , because heresie , blasphemie , false church , false ministerie is evill , as well as disorder in a civill state. secondly , i observe , how they take away from the magistrate that which is proper to his cognisance , as the complaints of servants , children , wives , against their parents , masters , husbands , &c. ( families as families , being as stones which make up the common building , and are properly the object of the magistrates care , in respect of civill government , civill order and obedience . ) chap. liv. peace . i pray now ( lastly ) proceed to the authours reason why christs disciples should be so far from persecuting , that they ought to blesse them that curse them , and pray for them that persecute them , because of the freenesse of gods grace , and the deepenesse of his councels , calling them that are enemies , persecutors , no people , to become meeke lambes , the sheep and people of god , according to pet. . . you which were not a people , are now a people , &c. and matth. . . some come at the last houre , which if they were cut off because they came not sooner , would be prevented , and so should never come . unto this reason the answerer is pleased thus to reply : first in generall ; we must not doe evill , that good may come thereof . secondly , in particular , he affirmeth , that it is evill to tolerate seditious evill doers , seducing teachers , scandalous livers : and for proof of this he quotes christs reproofe to the angel of the church at pergam●s , for tolerating them that hold the doctrine of balaam ; and against the church of thiatyra , for tolerating iesabel to teach and seduce , revel . . . . truth . i answer , first , by assenting to the generall proposition , that it is most true , like unto christ jesus himselfe , a sure foundation , cor. . yet what is built upon it , i hope ( by gods assistance ) to make it appeare is but hay and stubble , dead and withered , not suiting that golden foundation , nor pleasing to the father of mercies , nor comfortable to the soules of men . it is evill ( saith he ) to tolerate notorious evill doers , seducing teachers , scandalous livers . in which speech i observe evills : first that this proposition is too large and generall , because the rule admits of exception , and that according to the will of god. . it is true , that evill cannot alter its nature , but it is alway evill , as darknesse is alway darknesse , yet . it must be remembred , that it is one thing to command , to conceale , to councell , to approve evill , and another thing to permit and suffer evill with protestation against it , or dislike of it , at least without approbation of it . lastly , this sufferance or permission of evill is not for its ownsake , but for the sake of good , which puts a respect of goodnesse upon such permission . hence it is , that for gods owne glorie sake ( which is the highest good ) he endures , that is , permits or suffers the vessels of wrath , rom. . and therefore although he be of pure eyes , and can behold no iniquitie , yet his pure eyes patiently and quietly beholds and permits all the idolatries and prophanations , all the thefts and rapines , all the whoredomes and abominations , all the murthers and poysonings ; and yet i say , for his glory sake he is patient , and long permits . hence for his peoples sake ( which is the next good in his son ) he is oftentimes pleased to permit and suffer the wicked to enjoy a longer reprive . therefore he gave paul all the lives that were in the ship , acts . therefore he would not so soone have destroyed sodome , but granted a longer permission , had there been but righteous , gen. . therefore , ierem. . had he found some to have stood in the gap , he would have spared others . therefore gave he iesabel a time or space , revel . . therefore for his glory sake hath he permitted longer great sinners , who afterward have perished in their season , as we see in the case of ahab , the ninevites and amorites . &c. hence it pleased the lord not onely to permit the many evills against his owne honourable ordinance of mariage in the world , but was pleased after a wonderfull manner to suffer that sin of many wives in abraham , iacob , david , salomon , yea with some expression which seeme to give approbation , as sam. . peace . it may be said , this is no patterne for us , because god is above law , and an absolute soveraigne . truth . i answer , although wee finde him sometime dispensing with his law , yet we never finde him deny himselfe , or utter a falshood : and therefore when it crosseth not an absolute rule to permit and tolerate ( as in the case of the permission of the soules and consciences of all men in the world , i have shewne and shall shew further it doth not ) it will not hinder our being holy as hee is holy in all manner of conversation . chap. liv. peace . it will yet bee said , it pleaseth god to permit adulteries , murthers , poisons : god suffers men like fishes to devoure each other , habac. . the wicked to flourish , ier. . yea sends the tyrants of the world to destroy the nations , and plunder them of their riches , isa. . should men doe so , the world would be a wildernesse , and beside we have command for zealous execution of justice impartially , speedily . truth . i answer , we finde two sorts of commands both from moses and from christ , the two great prophets and messengers from the living god , the one the type or figure of the later : moses gave positive rules both spirituall and civill , yet also hee gave some not positive but permissive for the common good : so the lord iesus expoundeth it . for , whereas the pharises urged it , that moses commanded to give a bill of divorcement and to put away : the lord iesus expoundeth it , moses for the hardnesse of your heart suffered or permitted , math. . , . this was a permissive command universall to all israel , for a generall good , in preventing the continuall fires of dissentions & combustions in families ( yea it may be murthers , poysons , adulteries which that people ( as the wisedome of god foresaw ) was apt out of the hardnesse of their heart to breake out into , were it not for this preventing permission . hence it was that for a further publike good sake , and the publike safety , david permitted ioab , a notorious malefactor , and shimei and adonijah , &c. and civill states and governours in like cases have and doe permit and suffer what neither david nor any civill governour ought to doe or have done , were it not to prevent the hazard of the whole , in the shedding of much innocent blood ( together with the n●cent ) in civill combustions . peace . it may be said , ioab , shimei , adonijah , &c. were only ( as it were ) reprived for a time , and proves only that a season ought to be attended for their punishment . truth . answ. i answer , i produce not these instances to prove a permission of tares ( antichristians , heretikes ) which other scriptures abundantly prove , but to make it cleare ( against the answerers allegation , that even in the civill state permission of notorious evill doers , even against the civill state , is not disapproved by god himselfe , and the wisest of his servants in its season . chap. lv. truth . i proceed . hence it is that some generals of armies , and governours of cities , townes , &c. doe , and ( as those former instances prove ) lawfully permit some evill persons and practices . as for instance , in the civill state , vsury , for the preventing of a greater evill in the civill body , as stealing , robbing , murthering , perishing of the poore , and the hindrance or stop of commerce and dealing in the commonwealth . just like physicians , wisely permitting noysome humours , and sometimes diseases , when the cure or purging would prove more dangerous to the destruction of the whole , a weake or crazy body , and specially at such a time . thus in many other instances it pleased the father of lights the god of israel , to permit that people , especially in the matter of their demand of a king , ( wherein he pleaded that himselfe as well as samuel was rejected . ) this ground , to wit , for a common good of the whole , is the same with that of the lord iesus commanding the tares to be permitted in the world , because otherwise the good wheat should be indangered to be rooted up out of the field or world also , as well as the ares : and therefore for the good sake the tares , which are indeed evill , were to be permitted : yea and for the generall good of the whole world , the field it selfe , which for want of this obedience to that command of christ , hath beene and is laid waste and desolate , with the fury and rage of civill war , professedly raised and maintained ( as all states professe for the maintenance of one true religion ( after the patterne of that typicall land of canaan ) and to suppresse and pluck up these tares of false prophets and false professors , antichristians , heretickes , &c. out of the world . hence illae lachrymae : hence germanies , irelands , and now englands teares and dreadfull desolations , which ought to have beene , and may bee for the future ( by obedience to the command of the lord iesus , concerning the permission of tares to live in the world , though not in the church ) i say ought to have beene , and may bee mercifully prevented . chap. lvi . peace . i pray descend now to the second evill which you observe in the answerers position , viz. that it would bee evill to tolerate notorious evill doers , seducing teachers , &c. truth . i say , the evill is , that he most improperly and confusedly joynes and couples seducing teachers with scandalous livers . peace . but is it not true that the world is full of seducing teachers , and is it not true that seducing teachers are notorious evill doers ? truth . i answer : far be it from me to deny either : and yet in two things i shall discover the great evill of this joyning and coupling seducing teachers , and scandalous livers as one adaequate or proper object of the magistrates care and worke to suppresse and punish . first , it is not an homogeneall ( as we speake ) but an heterogeneall commixture or joyning together of things most different in kindes and natures , as if they were both of one consideration . for who knowes not but that many seducing teachers , either of the paganish , iewish , turkish , or antichristian religion , may be clear and free from scandalous offences in their life , as also from disobedience to the civill lawes of a state ? yea the answerer himselfe hath elsewhere granted , that if the lawes of a civill state be not broken , the peace is not broken . againe , who knowes not that a seducing teacher properly sinnes against a church or spirituall estate and lawes of it , and therefore ought most properly and onely to bee dealt withall in such a way , and by such weapons as the lord iesus himselfe hath appointed gainsayers , opposites and disobedients ( either within his church or without ) to be convinced , repelled , resisted , and slaine withall . whereas scandalous offendours against parents , against magistrates in the command . and so against the life , chastity , goods or good name in the rest , is properly transgression against the civill state and commonweale , or the worldly state of men : and therefore consequently if the world or civill state ought to be preserved by civill government or governours ; such scandalous effendours ought not to be tolerated , but supprest according to the wisdome and prudence of the said government . secondly , as there is a fallacious conjoying and confounding together persons of severall kindes and natures , differing as much as spirit and flesh , heaven and earth each from other . so is there a silent and implicite justification to all the unrighteous and cruell proceedings of iews and gentiles against all the prophets of god , the lord iesus himselfe , and all his messengers and witnesses , whom their accusers have ever so coupled and mixed with notorious evill doers and scandalous livers . elijah was a troubler of the state ; ieremy weakned the hand of the people : yea moses made the people neglect their worke : the iewes built the rebellious and bad city : the three worthies regarded not the command of the king : christ iesus deceived the people , was a conjurer and a traytor against caesar in being king of the ●ewes ( indeed he was so spiritually over the true jew the christian ) therefore he was numbred with notorious evill doers , and nailed to the gallowes between two malefactours . hence paul and all true messengers of iesus christ are esteemed seducing and seditious teachers and turners of the world upside downe : yea and to my knowledge ( i speake with honourable respect to the answerer , so far as he hath laboured for many truths of christ ) the answerer himselfe hath drunke of this cup to be esteemed a seducing teacher . chap. lvii . peace . yea but he produceth scriptures against such toleration , and for persecuting men for the cause of conscience : christ ( saith he ) had something against the angel of the church of pergamus for tolerating them that held the doctrine of balaam , and against the church of thiatira for tolerating iesabel to teach and seduce , rev. . . . truth . i may answer with some admiration and astonishment how it pleased the father of lights , and most jealous god to darken and vaile the eye of so pretious a man , as not to seek out and propose some scriptures ( in the proofe of so weighty an assertion ) as at least might have some colour for an influence of the civill magistrate in such cases : for first , he saith not that christ had ought against the city pergamus , ( where sathan had his throne rev. . ) but against the church at pergamus , in which was set up the throne of christ. secondly , christs charge is not against the civill magistrate of pergamus , but the messenger or ministry of the church in pergamus . thirdly , i confesse so far as balaams or iesabels doctrine maintained a liberty of corporall fornication , it concerned the city of pergamus and thiatira , and the angel or officers of those cities to suppresse not only such practices , but such doctrines also , as the roman emperour justly punished ovid the poet , for teaching the wanton art of love , leading to and ushering on laciviousnesse and uncleannesse . . yet so far as balaams teachers or iesabel did seduce the members of the church in pergamus or thiatira , to the worship of the idolaters in pergamus or thiatira ( which will appeare to be the case ) i say so far i may well and properly answer , as himselfe answered before those scriptures , brought from luc. . & tim. . to prove patience and permission to men opposite , viz. these scriptures ( saith he ) are directions to ministers of the gospel , and in the end of that passage he addes , much lesse doe they speake at all to civill magistrates . fifthly , either these churches and the angels thereof had power to suppresse these doctrines of balaam , and to suppresse iesabel from teaching , or they had not : that they had not cannot be affirmed , for christs authority is in the hands of his ministers and churches , matth. . & . & cor. . if they had power , as must be granted , then i conclude sufficient power to suppresse such persons , who ever they were that maintained balaams doctrine in the church at pergamus , although the very magistrates themselves of the city of pergamus , ( if christians ) and to have suppressed iesabel from teaching and seducing in the church had she been lady , queen , or empresse , if there were no more but teaching without hostility : and if so , all power and authority of magistrates and governours of pergamus and thiatira , and all submitting or appealing to them , in such cases , must needs fall as none of christs appointment . lastly , from this perverse wresting of what is writ to the church and the officers thereof , as if it were written to the civill state and officers thereof ; all may see how since the apostacie of antichrist , the christian world ( so called ) hath swallowed up christianity , how the church and civill state , that is the church and the world are now become one flocke of iesus christ ; christs sheepe , and the pastors or shepherds of them , all one with the severall unconverted , wilde or tame beasts and cattell of the world and the civill and earthly governours of them : the christian church or kingdome of the saints , that stone cut out of the mountaine without hands , daniel . now made all one with the mountaine or civill state , the roman empire , from whence it is cut or taken : christs lilies , garden and love , all one with the thornes , the daughers and wildernesse of the world , out of which the spouse or church of christ is called , and amongst whom in civill things for a while here below , she must necessarily be mingled and have converse , unlesse she will goe out of the world ( before christ iesus her lord and husband send for her home into the heavens , cor. . . ) chap. lviii . peace . having thus ( by the help of christ ) examined those scriptures or writings of truth , brought by the author against persecution , and cleared them from such vailes & mists wherewith mr. cotton hath endeavored to obscure & darken their light : i pray you now ( by the the same gracious assistance ) proceed to his answer to the second head of reasons from the profession of famous princes against persecution for conscience , k. iames , steven of poland , k. of bohemia , unto whom the answerer returneth a treble answer . first , saith he , we willingly acknowledge that none is to be persecuted at all no more then they may be oppressed for righteousnesse sake . againe , we acknowledge that none is to be punished for his conscience though misinformed ( as hath been said ) unlesse his error be fundamentall or seditiously and turbulently promoted , and that after due conviction of his conscience , that it may appeare he is not punished for his conscience , but for sinning against his conscience . furthermore , we acknowledge none is to be constrained to beleeve or professe the true religion , till he be convinced in judgement of the truth of it , but yet restrained he may be from blaspheming the truth , and from seducing any unto pernicious error . truth . this first answer consists of a repetition and enumeration of such grounds or conclusions , as mr. cotton in the entrance of this discourse laid downe , and i beleeve that ( through the helpe of god ) in such replies as i have made unto them , i have made it evident what weak foundations they have in the scriptures of truth ; as also that , when such conclusions ( excepting the first ) as grasse , and the flower of the grasse shall sade , that holy word of the lord , which the author against such persecution produced , and i have cleared , shall stand for ever , even when these heavens and earth are burnt . peace . his second answer is this : what princes professe and practice is not a rule of conscience . they many times tolerate that in point of state-policie , which cannot justly be tolerated in point of true christianity . againe , princes many times tolerate offendours out of very necessity , when the offenders are either too many or too mighty for them to punish , in which respect david tolerated ioab and his murders , but against his will. chap. lix . vnnto those excellent and famous speeches of those princes worthy to be written in golden letters or rows of diamonds upon all the gates of all the cities and palaces in the world , the answerer ( without any particular reply ) returnes two things . truth . first , that princes profession and practice is no rule of conscience : unto this as all men will subscribe , so may they also observe how the answerer deales with princes . one while they are the nursing fathers of the church , not only to feed , but also to correct , and therefore consequently bound to iudge what is true feeding and correcting : and consequently all men are bound to submit to their feeding and correcting . another while , when princes crosse mr. cottons judgement and practice , then it matters not what the profession and practice of princes is ; for ( saith he ) their profession and practice is no rule to conscience . i aske then , unto what magistrates or princes will themselves or any so perswaded submit , as unto keepers of both tables , as unto the antitypes of the kings of israel and iudah , and nursing fathers and mothers of the church ? first , will it not evidently follow , that by these tenents they ought not to submit to any magistrates in the world in these cases , but to magistrates just of their owne conscience : and secondly , that all other consciences in the world ( except their owne ) must be persecuted by such their magistrates ? and lastly , is not this to make magistrates but steps and stirrops to ascend and mount up into their rich and honourable seats and sad●les ; i meane great and setled maintenances , which neither the lord iesus , nor any of his first messengers , the true patternes , did ever know ? chap. lx. truth . in the second place hee saith that princes out of state policy tolerate what suits not with christianity , and out of state necessity tolerate ( ●s david did ioab ) against their wils . to which i answer , first , that although with him in the first i confesse that princes may tolerate that out of state policy which will not stand with christianity , yet in the second he must acknowledge with me , that there is a necessity sometime of state toleration , as in the case of ioab , and so his former affirmation generally laid downe [ viz. that it is evill to tolerate seducing teachers , or scandalous livers ] was not duly waighed in the balance of the sanctuary , and is too light . secondly , i affirme that that state policy and state necessity , which ( for the peace of the state and preventing of rivers of civill blood ) permits the consciences of men , will bee found to agree most punctually with the rules of the best politician that ever the world saw , the king of kings , and lord of lords , in comparison of whom salomon himselfe had but a drop of wisedome , compared to christs ocean , and was but a farthing candle compared with the all and ever glorious son of righteousnesse . that absolute rule of this great politician for the peace of the field , which is the world , and for the good and peace of the saints , who must have a civill being in the world , i have discoursed of in his command of permitting the tares , that is , antichristians or false christians to be in the field of the world , growing up together with the true wheat , true christians . chap. lxi . peace . his third answer is this : for those three princes named by you who tolerated religion , we can name you more and greater who have not tolerated heretickes and schismatickes , notwithstanding their pretence of conscience , and their arrogating the crowne of martyrdome to their sufferings . constantine the great at the request of the generall councell at nice , banished arrius , with some of his fellowes , sozom. lib. . eccles hist. cap . the same constantine made a severe law against the donatists : and the like proceedings against them were used by valentinian , gratian , and theodosius , as augustine reports in ep. . onely iulian the apostate granted liberty to heretickes , as well as to pagans , that he might by tolerating all weeds to grow , choake the vitals of christianity : which was also the practice and sinne of valens the arrian . queene elizabeth , as famous for her government as most of the former , it is well knowne what lawes she made and executed against papists : yea and k. iames ( one of your owne witnesses ) though he was slow in proceeding against papists ( as you say ) for conscience sake , yet you are not ignorant how sharply and severely he punished those whom the malignant world calls puritans , men of more conscience and better faith then the papists whom he tolerated . truth . unto this i answer : first , that for mine owne part i would not use an argument from the number of princes , witnessing in profession of practice against persecution for cause of conscience ; for the truth and faith of the lord iesus must not bee received with respect of faces , be they never so high , princely and glorious . precious pearles and iewels , and farre more precious truth are found in muddy shells and places . the rich mines of golden truth lye hid under barren hills , and in obscure holes and corners . the most high and glorious god hath chosen the poore of the world : and the witnesses of truth ( rev. . ) are cloathed in sackcloth , not in silke or sattin , cloth of gold , or tissue : and therefore i acknowledge , if the number of princes professing persecution bee considered , it is rare to finde a king , prince or governour like christ iesus the king of kings , and prince of the princes of the earth , and who tread not in the steps of herod the fox , or nero the lyon , openly or secretly persecuting the name of the lord iesus ; such were saul , ieroboam , ahab , though under a maske or pretence of the name of the god of israel . to that purpose was it a noble speech of buchanan , who lying on his death-bed sent this item to king iames : remember my humble service to his majestie , and tell him that buchanan is going to a place where few kings come . chap. lxii . truth . secondly , i observe how inconsiderately ( i hope not willingly ) he passeth by the reasons and grounds urged by those three princes for their practices ; for as for the bare examples of kings or princes , they are but like shining sands , or guilded rockes , giving no solace to such as make wofull shipwrack on them . in k. iames his speech he passeth by that golden maxime in divinity , that god never loves to plant his church by blood. secondly , that civill obedience may be performed from the papists . thirdly , in his observation on revel . that true and certaine note of a false church , to wit , persecution : the wicked are besiegers , the faithfull are besieged . in k. steven of poland his speech , hee passeth by the true difference betweene a civill and a spirituall government : i am ( said steven ) a civill magistrate over the bodies of men , not a spirituall over their soules . now to confound these , is babel ; and jewish it is to seek for moses , and bring him from his grave ( which no man shall finde , for god buried him ) in setting up a nationall state or church in a land of canaan , which the great messiah abolished at his comming . thirdly , he passeth by in the speech of the king of bohemia , that foundation in grace and nature , to wit , that conscience ought not to be violated or forced : and indeed it it is most true , that a soule or spirituall rape is more abominable in gods eye , then to force and ravish the bodies of all the women in the world. secondly , that most lamentably true experience of all ages , which that king observeth , viz. that persecution for cause of conscience hath ever proved pernicious , being the causes of all those wonderfull innovations of , or changes in the principalities● and mightiest kingdomes of christendome . he that reads the records of truth and time with an impartiall eye , shall finde this to be the launcet that hath pierc'd the veines of kings and kingdomes , of saints and sinners , and fill'd the streames and rivers with their blood . lastly , that kings observation of his own time , , viz. that persecution for cause of conscience , was practised most in england , and such places where popery raigned , implying ( as i conceive ) that such practises commonly proceed from that great whore the church of rome , whose daughters are like their mother , and all of a bloody nature , as most commonly all whores be . chap. lxiii . now thirdly , in that the answerer observeth , that amongst the romane emperours , they that did not persecute , were iulian the apostate , and valens the arrian ; whereas the good emperours , constantine , gratian , valentinian , and theodosius , they did persecute the arrians , donatists , &c. answ. it is no new thing for godly and eminently godly men , to performe ungodly actions : nor for ungodly persons , for wicked ends to act what in it selfe is good and righteous . abraham , iacob , david salomon , &c. ( as well as lamech , saul , &c. ) lived in constant transgression against the institution of so holy and so ratified a law of mariage , &c. and this not against the light and checks of conscience , ( as other sinnes are wont to be recorded of them ) but according to the dictate and perswasion of a resolved soule and conscience . david out of zeale to god , with thousand of israel , and majesticall solemnity , carries up the arke , contrary to the order god was pleased to appoint : the issue was both gods and davids great offence● sam. . david in his zeale would build an house to entertaine his god ? what more pious ? and what more ( in shew ) serio●sly consulted , when the prophet nathan is admitted councellour ? sam. . and probable it is , that his slaughter of vriiah was not without a good end , to wit , to prevent the dishonour of gods name , in the discoverrie of his adulterie with bathsheba : yet david was holy and precious to god still , ( though like a jewell fallen into the dirt ) whereas k. ahab , though acting his fasting & humiliation , was but ahab still , though his act ( in it selfe ) was a duty , and found successe with god. chap. lxiv . peace . i have often heard that historie reports , and i have heard that mr. cotton himselfe hat affirmed it , that christianitic fell asleep in constantines bosome , and the laps and bosomes of those emperours professing the name of christ. truth . the unknowing zeale of constantine and other emperours , did more hurt to christ iesus his crowne and kingdome , then the raging fury of the most bloody neroes . in the persecutions of the later , christians were sweet and fragrant , like spice pounded and beaten in morters : but those good emperours , persecuting some erroneous persons , arrius , &c. and advancing the professours of some truths of christ ( for there was no small number of truths lost in those times ) and maintaining their religion by the materiall sword , i say by this meanes christianity was ecclipsed , and the professors of it fell asleep , cant. . babel or confusion was usher'd in , and by degrees the gardens of the churches of saints were turned into the wildernesse of whole nations , untill the whole world became christian or christendome , revel . . & . doubtlesse those holy men , emperours and bishops , intended and aimed right , to exalt christ : but not attending to the command of christ iesus , to permit the tares to grow in the field of the world , they made the garden of the church , and field of the world to be all one ; and might not onely sometimes in their zealous mistakes persecute good wheat in stead of tares , but also pluck up thousands of those precious stalkes by commotions and combustions about religion , as hath been since practised in the great and wonderfull changes wrought by such wars in many great and mighty states and kingdomes , as we heard even now in the observation of the king of bohemia . chap. lxv . peace . deare truth , before you leave this passage concerning the emperours , i shall desire you to glance your eye on this not unworthy observation , to wit , how fully this worthy answerer hath learned to speake the roaring language of lyon-like persecution , far from the purity and peaceablenesse of the lambe , which he was wont to expresse in england . for thus he writes : more and greater princes then these you mention ( saith he ) have not tolerated hereticks and schismaticks , notwithstanding their pretence of conscience , and their arrogating the crown of martyrdome to their suff●ings . truth . thy tender eare and heart ( sweet peace ) endures not such language : 't is true , that these termes , hereticks ( or wilfully obstinate ) and schismaticks ( or renders ) are used in holy writ : 't is true also , that such pretend conscience , and challenge the crowne of martyrdome to their suffrings : yet since ( as king iames spake in his [ marke of a false church ] on revel . . ) the wicked persecute and besiege , and the godly are persecuted and besieged ; this is the common clamour of persecuters against the messengers and witnesses of iesus in all ages , viz. you are hereticks , schismaticks , factious , seditious , rebellious . have not all truths witnesses heard such reproaches ? you pretend conscience ; you say you are persecuted for religion ; you will say you are martyrs ? oh it is hard for gods children to fall to opinion and practice of persecution , without the ready learning the language thereof : and doubtlesse , that soule that can so readily speake babels language , hath cause to fear that he hath not yet in point of worship left the gates or suburbs of it . peace . againe , in blaming iulian and valens the arrian , for tolerating all weeds to grow , he notes their sinfull end , that thereby they might choake the vitals of christianity ; and seemes to consent ( in this and other passages foregoing and following on a speech of ierome ) that the weeds of false religions tolerated in the world , have a power to choake and kill true christianity in the church . truth . i shall more fully answer to this on ieromes speech , and shew that if the weeds be kept out of the garden of the church , the roses and lilies therein will flourish , notwithstanding that weeds abound in the field of the civill state. when christianity began to be choaked , it was not when christians lodged in cold prisons , but downe beds of ease , and persecuted others , &c. chap. lxvi . peace . he ends this passage with approbation of q. elizabeth for persecuting the papists , and a reproofe to king iames for his persecuting the puritans , &c. truth . i answer , if queene elizabeth according to the answerers tenent and conscience , did well to persecute according to her conscience , king iames did not ill in persecuting according to his : for mr. cotton must grant , that either king iames was not fit to be a king , had not the essentiall qualifications of a king , in not being able rightly to judge who ought to be persecuted , and who not , or else he must confesse that king iames and all magistrates must persecute such whom in their conscience they judge worthy to be persecuted . i say it againe ( though i neither approve queen elizabeth or k. iames in such their persecutions , yet ) such as hold this tenent of persecuting for conscience , must also hold that civill magistrates are not essentially fitted and qualified for their function and office , except they can discerne clearly the difference betweene such as are to be punished and persecuted , and such as are not . or else if they be essentially qualified , without such a religious spirit of discerning , and yet must persecute the hereticke , the schismaticke , &c. must they not persecute according to their conscience and perswasion . and then doubtlesse ( though he bee excellent for civill government ) may he easily , as paul did ignorantly , persecute the son of god , in stead of the son of perdition . therefore ( lastly ) according to christ iesus his command , magistrates are bound not to persecute , and to see that none of their subjects be persecuted and oppressed for their conscience and worship , being otherwise subject and peaceable in civill obedience . chap. lxvii . in the second place i answer and aske , what glory to god what good to the soules or bodies of their subjects shall princes , did these princes bring in persecuting ? &c. peace . mr. cotton tells us in his discourse upon the third violl , that queene elizabeth had almost fired the world in civill combustions by such her pe●secuting : for , though hee bring it in to another end , yet he confesseth that it raised all christendome in combustion , raised the warres of . and the spanish invasion : and he addes ( both concerning the english nation and the dutch ) that if god had not born witnesse to his people , and their laws , in defeating the intendments of their enemies against both the nations , it might have beene the ruine of them both . truth . that those lawes and practices of queene elizabeth raised those combustions in christendome i deny not : that they might likely have cost the ruine of english and dutch i grant . that it was gods gracious worke in defeating the intendments of their enemies i thankfully acknowledge . but that god bore witnesse to such persecutions and lawes for such persecutions i deny , for first , event and successe come alike to all , and are no arguments of love or hatred , &c. secondly , the papists in their warres have ever yet had both in peace and war victory and dominion ; and therefore ( if successe be the measure ) god hath borne witnesse unto them . it is most true what daniel in his . and . and . chapters , and iohn in his revel . . . and . chapters write of the great successe of antichrist against christ iesus for a time appointed . successe was various betweene charles the fift and some german princes : philip of spaine and the low countries : the french king and his protestant subjects , sometimes losing , sometimes winning , interchangeably . but most memorable is the famous history of the wald●nses and albingenses , those famous witnesses of iesus christ , who rising from wald● at lyons in france ( . ) spread over france , italy , germany , and almost all countries , into thousands and ten thousands , making separation from the pope and church of rome . these fought many battels with various successe , and had the assistance and protection of divers great princes against three succeeding popes and their armies , but after mutuall slaughters and miseries to both sides , the finall successe of victory fell to the popedome and romish church in the utter extirpation of those famous waldensian witnesses . gods servants are all overcommers when they war with gods weapons in gods cause and worship : and revel . . and . chapters , seven times is it recorded , to him that overcommeth in ephesus , to him that overcommeth in sardis , &c. and revel . . gods servants overcame the dragon or devill in the romane emperours by three weapons , the blood of the lambe , the word of their testimony , and the not loving of their lives unto the death . chap. lxviii . peace . the answerer in the next place descends to the third and last head of arguments produced by the authour , taken from the judgement of ancient and later writers , yea even of the papists themselves , who have condemned persecution for conscience sake : some of which the answerer pleaseth to answer , and thus writeth . you begin with hilarie , whose testimony without prejudice to the truth we may admit : for it is true , the christian church doth not persecute , but is persecuted . but to excommunicate an hereticke is not to persecute , that is , it is not to punish an innocent , but a culpable and damnable person , and that not for conscience , but for persisting in errour against light of conscience , whereof he hath beene convinced . truth . in this answer here are two things . first , his confession of the same truth affirmed by hilarius , to wit , that the christian church doth not persecute , but is persecuted : su●ing wi●h that fo●eg●ing observation of king iames from rev. . peace . yet to this he addes a colour thus : which , saith he , wee may admit without prejudice to the truth . truth . i answer , if it bee a marke of the christian church to bee persecuted , and of the antichristian o● false church to persecute , then those churches cannot be truly christian ( according to the first institution ) which either actually themselves , or by the civill power of kings and princes given to them ( or procured by them to fight for them ) doe persecute such as dissent from them or be opposite against them . peace . yea , but in the second place he addeth , that to excommunicate an heretick , is not to persecute , but to punish him for sinning against the light of his own conscience , &c. truth . i answer , if this worthy answerer were throughly awaked from the spouses spirituall slumber , ( cant. . ) and had recovered from the drunkennesse of the great whore , who intoxicateth the nations , revel . . it is impossible that he should so answer : for . first , who questioneth , whether to excommunicate an heretick , ( this is , an obstinate gainsayer ) as we have opened the word upon tit. . ) i say , who questioneth whether that be to persecute ? excommunication being of a spirituall nature , a sentence denounced by the word of christ iesus the spirituall king of his church ; and a spirituall killing by the most sharpe two-edged sword of the spirit , in delivering up the person excommunicate to sathan . therefore who sees not that his answer comes not neere our question ? peace . in the answerers second conclusion ( in the entrance of this discourse ) he proves persecution against an heretick for sinning against his conscience , and quotes tit. . . which only proves ( as i have there made it evident ) a spirituall rejecting or excommunicating from the church of god , and so comes not neer the question . here again he would prove churches charged to be false , because they persecute : i say he would prove them not to be false , because they persecute not : for , saith he , excommunication is not persecution . whereas the question is ( as the whole discourse , and hilaries own amplification of the matter in this speech , and the practice of all ages testifies ) whether it be not a false church that doth persecute other churches or members ( opposing her in spirituall and church matter ) not by excommunications , but by imprisonments , stocking , whipping , sining , banishing , hanging , burning , &c. notwithstanding that such persons in civill obedience and subjection are unreproveable . truth . i conclude this passage with hilarius and the answerer , that the christian church doth not persecute ; no more then a lilie doth scratch the thornes , or a lambe pursue and teare the ●olves , or a turtle dove hunt the hawkes and eagles , or a chaste and modest virgin fight and scratch like whores and harlots . and for punishing the heretick for sinning against his conscience after conviction , which in the second conclusion he affirmeth to be by a civill sword i have at large there answered . chap. lxix . peace . in the next place he selecteth one passage out of hilarie , ( although there are many golden passages there exprest against the use of civill earthly powers in the affaires of christ. ) the passage is this : it is true also what he saith that neither the apostles nor we may propogate christian religion by the sword : but if pagans cannot he won by the word , they are not to be compelled by the sword : neverthelesse this hindreth not ( saith he ) but if they or any other should blaspheme the true god and his true religion , they ought to be severely punished : and no lesse doe they deserve , if they seduce from the truth to damnable heresie or idolatrie . truth . in which answer i observe , first his agreement with hilarie , that the christian religion may not be propagated by the civill sword. unto which i reply , and aske then what meanes this passage in his first answer to the former speeches of the kings , viz. we acknowledge that none is to be constrained to beleeve or professe the true religion , till he be convinced in judgement of the truth of it : implying things . first , that the civill magistrate , who is to constraine with the civill sword , must judge all the consciences of their subjects , whether they be convinced or no. secondly , when the civill magistrate discerns that his subjects consciences are convinced , then he may constraine them vi & armi● , hostily . and accordingly , the civill state and magistracie judging in spirituall things , who knowes not what constraint lies upon all consciences in old and new england , to come to church , and pay church duties , which is upon the point ( though with a sword of a finer gilt and trim in new england ) nothing else but that which he confesseth hilarie saith true , should not be done , to wit , a propagation of religion by the sword. againe , although he confesseth that propagation of religion ought not to be by the sword : yet he maintaineth the use of the sword , when persons ( in the judgement of the civill state , for that is implied ) blaspheme the true god , and the true religion , and also seduce others to damnable heresie and idolatrie . which because he barely affirmeth in this place , i shall defer my answer unto the after reasons of mr cotton and the elders of new english churches ; where scriptures are alleadged , and in that place ( by gods assistance ) they shall be examined and answered . chap. lxx . peace . the answerer thus proceeds : your next writer is tertullian , who speaketh to the same purpose in the place alleadged by you . his intent is only to restraine scapula the roman governour of africa , from persecuting the christians , for not offering sacrifice to their gods : and for that end , fetcheth an argument from the law of naturall equity , not to compell any to any religion , but permit them to believe or not to believe at all . which we acknowledge ; and accordingly we judge , the english may permit the indians to continue in their unbeliefe : neverthelesse it will not therefore be lawfull to tolerate the worship of devils or idols , to the seduction of any from the truth . truth . answ. in this passage he agrees with tertullian , and gives instance in america of the english permitting the indians to continue in their unbeleefe : yet withall he affirmeth it not lawfull to tolerate worshipping of devils , or seduction from the truth . i answer , that in new england it is well known that they not onely permit the indians to continue in their unbeliefe , ( which neither they , nor all the ministers of christ on earth , nor angels in heaven can helpe , not being able to worke beleefe ) but they also permit or tolerate them in their paganish worship , which cannot be denied to be a worshipping of devils , as all false worship is . and therefore cons●quently ●ccording to the same practice , did they walke by rule and impartially , not onely the indians , but their countrymen , french , dutch , spanish , persians , turkes , iewes , &c. should also be permitted in their worships , if correspondent in civill obedience . peace . he addes further , when tertullian saith , that another mans religion neither hurteth nor profiteth any ; it must be understood of private worship and religion professed in private : otherwise a false religion professed by the members of the church , or by such as have given their names to christ , will be the ruine and desolation of the church , as appeareth by the threats of christ to the churches● revel . . truth . i answer ( passing by that unsound distinction of members of the church , or those that have given their names to christ , which in point of visible profession and worship will appeare to be all one ) it is plaine , first , that tertullian doth not there speake of private , but of publike worship and religion . secondly , although it be true in a church of christ , that a false religion or worship permitted , will hurt , according to those threats of christ , revel . . yet in cases i believe a false religion will not hurt ( which is most like to have been tertullians meaning ) first , a false religion out of the church will not hurt the church , no more then weedes in the wildernesse hurt the inclosed garden , or poyson hurt the body when it is not touched or taken , yea and antidotes are received against it . secondly , a false religion and worship will not hurt the civill state , in case the worshippers breake no civill law : and the answerer ( elswhere ) acknowledgeth , that the civill lawes not being broken , civill peace is not broken : and this only is the point in question . chap. lxxi . peace . your next authour ( saith he ) ierome , crosseth not the truth , nor advantageth your cause ; for we grant what he saith , that heresie must be cut off with the sword of the spirit : but this hinders not , but being so cut down● if the heretick will persist in his heresie , to the seduction of others , he may be cut off also by the civill sword , to prevent the perdition of others . and that to be ieromes meaning , appeareth by his note upon that of the apostle , ( a little leaven leaveneth the whole lumpe ) therefore ( saith he ) a sparke as soon as it appeareth , is to be extinguished , and the leaven to be removed from the rest of the dough ; rotten pieces of flesh are to be cut off , and a scabbed beast is to be driven from the sheepfold ; lest the whole house , body , masse of dough , and flock , be set on fire with the sparke , be putrified with the rotten slesh , sowred with the leaven , perish by the scabbed beast . truth . i answer , first , he granteth to tertullian , that heresie must be cut off with the sword of the spirit : yet withall he maintaineth a cutting off by a second sword , the sword of the magistrate ; and conceiveth that tertullian so meanes , because he quoteth that of the apostle , a little leaven leaveneth the whole lumpe . answ. it is no argument to prove that tertullian meant a civill sword , by alleadging cor. . or gal. . which properly and only app●ove a cutting off by the sword of the spirit in the church , and the purging out of the leaven in the church in the cities of corinth and galatia . and if tertullian should so meane as himselfe doth , yet first , that grant of his , that heresie must be cut off with the sword of the spirit , implies an absolute sufficiencie in the sword of the spirit to cut it down , according to that mighty operation of spirituall weapons , ( cor. . . ) powerfully sufficient either to convert the heretick to god , and subdue his very thoughts into subjection to christ , or else spiritually to slay and execute him . secondly , it is cleare to be the meaning of the apostle , and of the spirit of god , not there to speake to the church in corinth or galatia , or any other church , concerning any other dough , or house , or body , or ●lock , but the dough , the body , the house , the ●lock of christ his church : out of which such spa●ks , such leaven , such rotten slesh and scabbed sheep are to be avoided . nor could the eye of this worthy answerer ever be so obscured , as to run to a smiths shop for a sword of iron and steale to helpe the sword of the spirit , if the sun of righteousnesse had once been pleased to shew him , that a nationall church ( which elsewhere he professeth against ) a state church ( whether explicite , as in ola england , or implicite , as in new ) is not the institution of the lord iesus christ. the nationall typicall state-church of the iewes necessarily called for such weapons : but the particular churches of christ in all parts of the world , consisting of iewes or gentiles , is powerfully able by the sword of the spirit to defend it selfe , and ●ffend men or devils , although the stat● or kingdome ( wherein such a church or churches of christ are gathered ) have neither carnall speare nor sword , &c. as once it was in the nationall church of the land of canaan . chap. lxxii . peace . breutius ( whom you next quote , saith he ) speaketh not to your cause . wee willingly grant you , that man hath no power to make lawes to binde conscience , but this hinders not , but men may see the lawes of god observed which doe binde conscience . truth . i answer , in granting with breutius that man hath not power to make lawes to binde conscience , hee overthrowes such his tenent and practice as restraine men from their worship , according to their conscience and beleefe , and constraine them to such worships ( though it bee out of a pretence that they are convinced ) which their owne soules tell them they have no satisfaction nor faith in . secondly , whereas he affirmeth that men may make lawes to see the lawes of god observed . i answer , as god needeth not the helpe of a materiall sword of steele to assist the sword of the spirit in the affaires of conscience , so those men , those magistrates , yea that commonwealth which makes such magistrates , must needs have power and authority from christ iesus to sit iudge and to determine in all the great controversies concerning doctrine , discipline , government , &c. and then i aske , whether upon this ground it must not evidently follow , that either there is no lawfull commonwealth nor civill state of men in the world , which is not qualified with this spirituall discerning : ( and then also that the very commonweale hath more light concerning the church of christ , then the church it selfe . ) or , that the commonweale and magistrates thereof must judge and punish as they are perswaded in their owne beleefe and conscience , ( be their conscience paganish , turkish , or antichristian ) what is this but to confound heaven and earth together , and not onely to take away the being of christianity out of the world , but to take away all civility , and the world out of the world , and to lay all upon heapes of confusion ? chap. lxxiii . peace . the like answer ( saith he ) may bee returned to luther , whom you next alledge . first , that the government of the civill magistrate extendeth no further then over the bodies and goods of their subjects , not over their soules , and therefore they may not undertake to give lawes unto the soules and consciences of men . secondly , that the church of christ doth not use the arme of secular power to compell men to the true profession of the truth , for this is to be done with spirituall weapons , whereby christians are to be exhorted , not compelled . but this ( saith hee ) hindreth not that christians sinning against light of faith and conscience , may justly be censured by the church with excommunication , and by the civill sword also , in case they shall corrupt others to the perdition of their soules . truth . i answer , in this joynt confession of the answerer with luther , to wit , that the government of the civill magistrate extendeth no further then over the bodies and goods of their subjects , not over their soules : who sees not what a cleare testimony from his own mouth and pen is given , to wit , that either the spirituall and church estate , the preaching of the word , and the gathering of the church , the baptisme of it , the ministry , government and administrations thereof belong to the civill body of the commonweale ? that is , to the bodies and goods of men , which seemes monstrous to imagine : or else that the civill magistrate cannot ( without exceeding the bounds of his office ) meddle with those spirituall affaires . againe , necessarily must it follow , that these two are contradictory to themselves : to wit , the magistrate power extends no further then the bodies and goods of the subject , and yet the magistrates must punish christians for sinning against the light of faith and conscience , and for corrupting the soules of men . the father of lights make this worthy answerer and all that feare him to see their wandring in this case , not only from his feare , but also from the light of reason it selfe , their owne convictions and confessions . secondly , in his joint confession with luther , that the church doth not use the secular power to compell men to the faith and profession of the truth , he condemneth ( as before i have observed ) first , his former implication , viz● that they may bee compelled when they are convinced of the truth of it . secondly , their owne practice , who suffer no man of any different conscience and worship to live in their jurisdiction , except that he depart from his owne exercise of religion and worship differing from the worship allowed of in the civill state , yea and also actually submit to come to their church . which howsoever it is coloured over with this varnish , viz. that men are compelled no further then unto the hearing of the word , unto which all men are bound : yet it will appeare that teaching and being taught in a church estate is a church worship , as true and proper a church worship as the supper of the lord , act. . . secondly , all persons ( papist and protestant ) that are conscientious , have alwayes suffered upon this ground especially , that they have refused to come to each others church or meeting . chap. lxxiv . peace . the next passage in the author which the answerer descends unto , is the testimony of the papists themselves , a lively and shining testimony from scriptures alledged both against themselves and all that associate with them ( as power is in their hand ) in such unchristian and bloody both tenents and practices . as for the testimony of the popish booke ( saith he ) we weight it not , as knowing what ever they speake for toleration of religion , where themselves are under hatches , when they come to sit at stern they judge and practise quite contrary , as both their writings and judiciall proceedings have testified to the world these many yeares . truth . i answer , although both writings and practices have been such , yet the scriptures and expressions of truth alledged and uttered by them , speake loud and fully for them when they are under the hatches , that for their conscience and religion they should not there be choaked and smothered , but suffered to breathe and walke upon the deckes in the ayre of civill liberty and conversation in the ship of the commonwealth , upon good assurance given of civill obedience to the civill state. againe , if this practice bee so abominable in his eyes from the papists , viz. that they are so partiall as to persecute when they sit at helme , and yet cry out against persecution when they are under the hatches , i shall beseech the righteous judge of the whole world to present as in a water or glasse ( where face answereth to face ) the faces of the papist to the protestant , answering to each other in the samenesse of partiality , both of this doctrine and practice . when mr. cotton and others have formerly been under hatches , what sad and true complaints have they abundantly powred forth against persecution ? how have they opened that heavenly scripture , cant . . where christ iesus calls his tender wife and spouse from the fellowship with persecutors in their dens of lions , and mountaines of leopards ? but comming to the helme ( as he speaks of the papists ) how , both by preaching , writing , printing , practice , doe they themselves ( i hope in their persons lambes ) unnaturally and partially expresse toward others , the cruell nature of such lions and leopards ? o that the god of heaven might please to tell them how abominable in his eyes are a waight and a waight , a stone and a stone in the bag of waights ! one waight for themselves when they are under hatches , and another for others when they come to helme . nor shall their confidence of their being in the truth ( which they judge the papists and others are not in ) no nor the truth it selfe priviledge them to persecute others , and to exempt themselves from persecution , because ( as formerly . ) first , it is against the nature of true sheep to persecute or hunt the beasts of the forrest , no not the same wolves who formerly have persecuted themselves . secondly , if it be a duty and charge upon all magistrates in all parts of the world to judge and persecute in and for spirituall causes , then either they are no magistrates who are not able to judge in such cases , or else they must judge according to their consciences , whether pagan , turkish or antichristian . lastly , notwithstanding their confidence of the truth of their owne way , yet the experience of our fathers errours , our owne mistakes and ignorance , the sense of our own weaknesses and blindnesse in the depths of the prophesies & mysteries of the kingdom of christ , and the great professed expectation of light to come which we are not now able to comprehend , may abate the edge , yea sheath up the sword of persecution toward any , especially such as differ not from them in doctrines of repentance , or faith , or holinesse of heart and life , and hope of glorious and eternall union to come , but only in the way and manner of the administrations of iesus christ. chap. lxxv . peace . to close this head of the testimony of writers , it pleaseth the answerer to produce a contrary testimony of austin , optatus , &c. truth . i readily acknowledge ( as formerly i did concerning the testimony of princes ) that antichrist is too hard for christ at votes and numbers : yea and beleeve that in many points ( wherein the servants of god these many hundred yeares have beene fast asleep ) superstition and persecution have had more suffrages and votes from gods owne people then hath either been honourable to the lord , or peaceable to their owne or the soules of others : therefore ( not to derogate from the pretious memory of any of them ) let us briefly consider what they have in this point affirmed . to begin with austin : they murther ( saith he ) soules , and themselves are afflicted in body , and they put men to everlasting death , and yet they complaine when themselves are put to temporall death . i answer , this rhetoricall perswasion of humane wisdome seems very reasonable in the eye of flesh and blood , but one scripture more prevailes with faithfull and obedient soules then thousands of plausi●le and eloquent speeches : in particular , first , the scripture useth soule-killing in a large sense , not only for the teaching of false prophets and seducers , but even for the offensive walking of christians , in which respect cor. . ) a true christian may be guilty of destroying a soule for whom christ died , and therefore by this rule ought to be hanged , burned , &c. secondly , that plausible similitude will not prove that every false teaching or false practice actually kills the soule , as the body is slaine , and slaine but once , for soules infected or bewitched may againe recover , cor. . gal. . tim. . &c. thirdly , for soule-killings , yea also for soule-woundings and grievings , christ iesus hath appointed remedies sufficient in his church . there comes forth a two edged sword out of his mouth ( rev. . and rev. ) able to cut downe heresie ( as is confest ) yea and to kill the hereticke , yea and to punish his soule everlastingly , which no sword of steele can reach unto in any punishment comparable or imaginable ; and therefore in this case we may say of this spirituall soule-killing by the sword of christs mouth , as paul concerning the incestuous person , cor. . sufficient is this punishment , &c. fourthly , although no soule-killers , nor soule-grievers may be suffred in the spirituall state or kingdome of christ , the church ; yet he hath commanded that such should be suffered and permitted to be and live in the world , as i have proved on matth. . otherwise thousands and millions of soules and bodies both , must be murthered and cut off by civill combustions and bloody warres about religion . fifthly , i argue thus : the soules of all men in the world are either naturally dead in sin , or alive in christ. if dead in sinne , no man can kill them , no more then he can kill a dead man : nor is it a false teacher or false religion that can so much prevent the means of spirituall life , as one of these two ; either the force of a material sword , imprisoning the soules of men in a state or nationall religion , ministery or worship ; or secondly , civill warres and combustions for religion sake , whereby men are immediately cut off without any longer meanes of repentance . now againe , for the soules that are alive in christ , he hath graciously appointed ordinances powerfully sufficient to maintaine and cherish that life , armour of proofe able to defend them against men and devils . secondly , the soule once alive in christ , is like christ himselfe , ( revel . . ) alive for ever , ( rom. . ) and cannot die a spirituall death . lastly , grant a man to be a false teacher , an heretick , a balaam , a spirituall witch , a wolfe , a persecuter , breathing out blasphemies against christ , and slaughters against his followers , as paul did , act. . i say , these who appeare soule-killers to day , by the grace of christ may prove ( as paul ) soule-savers to morrow : and saith paul to timothy ( tim. . ) thou shalt save thy selfe and them that heare thee : which all must necessarily be prevented , if all that comes within the sense of these soule-killers , must ( as guilty of blood ) be corporally kill'd and put to death . chap. lxvi . peace . deare truth , your answers are so satisfactorie to austins speech , that if austin himselfe were now living , me thinkes he should be of your mind . i pray descend to optatus , who ( saith the answerer ) justifies macharius for putting some hereticks to death , affirming that he had done no more herein then what moses , phineas and elias had done before him . truth . th●se are shafts usually drawne from the quiver of the ceremoniall and typicall state of the nationall church of the iewes , whose shadowish and figurative state vanished at the appearing of the body and substance , the sun of righteousnesse , who set up another kingdome or church ( heb. . ) ministrie and worship : in which we finde no such ordinance , precept or president of killing men by materiall swords for religion sake . more particularly concerning moses , i quaerie what commandement or practice of moses either optatus or the answerer here intend ? probably that passage of deut. . wherein moses appointed a slaughter either of a person or a city that should depart from the god of israel , with whom that nationall church was in covenant . and if so , i shall particularly reply to that place in my answer to the reasons hereunder mentioned . concerning phineas his zealous act : first , his slaying of the israelitish man , and woman of midian , was not for spirituall , but corporall filthines . secondly , no man will produce his fact as presidentiall to any minister of the gospel so to act in any civill state or commonweale ; although i believe in the church of god it is presidentiall for either minister or people to kill and slay with the two-edged sword of the spirit of god any such bold and open presumptuous sinners as these were . lastly , concerning eliah : there were two famous acts of eliah of a killing nature : first , that of slaying of baals prophets . kings . secondly of the two captaines and their fifties , by fire , &c. for the first of these , it cannot figure or type out any materiall slaughter of the many thousands of false prophets in the world by any materiall sword of iron or steele : for as that passage was miraculous , so finde we not any such commission given by the lord iesus to the ministers of the gospel . and lastly , such a slaughter must not only extend to all the false prophets in the world , but ( according to the answerers grounds ) to the many thousands of thousands of idolaters and false worshippers in the kingdomes and nations of the world. for the second act of eliah , as it was also of a miraculous nature : so secondly , when the followers of the lord iesus ( luc. . ) proposed such a practice to the lord iesus , for injury offered to his owne person , he disclaimed it with a milde checke to their angry spirits , telling them plainly they knew not what spirits they were of ; and addeth that gentle and mercifull conclusion , that he came not to destroy the bodies of men , as contrarily antichrist doth , alledging these instances from the old testament , as also peters killing anania● , acts . and peters vision and voice , arise peter , kill and eat , acts. . chap. lxxvii . peace . you have so satisfied these instances brought by optatus , that me thinks optatus and the answerer himself might rest satisfied . i will not trouble you with bernards argument from rom. . which you have already on that scripture so largely answered . but what thinke you ( lastly ) of calvin , beza , and aretius ? truth ans. since matters of fact and opinion are barely related by the answerer without their grounds , whose grounds notwithstanding in this discourse are answered . i answer , if paul himself were joyned with them , yea or an angel from heaven bringing any other rule then what the lord jesus hath once delivered , we have pauls conclusion and resolution , peremptory and dreadfull , gal. . . peace . this passage finished , let me finish the whole by proposing one conclusion of the author of the arguments , viz. it is no prejudice to the commonwealth if liberty of conscience were suffered to such as feare god indeed : abraham abode a long time amongst the cananites , yet contrary to them in religion , gen. . . & . . againe , he s●journed in gerar , and king abimel●ch gave him leave to abide in his land , gen. . . . . isaack also dwelt in the same land , yet contrary in religion , gen. . iacob lived yeares in one house with his unkle laban , yet differed in religion , gen. . the people of israel were about yeares in that infamous land of egypt , and afterwards yeares in babylon : all which times they differed in religion from the states , exod. . & chron. . come to the time of christ , where israel was under the romanes , where lived divers sects of religion , as herodians , scribes and pharises , saduces and libertines , theudaeans and samaritanes , beside the common religion of the jews , & christ and his apostles . all which differed from the common religion of the state , which was like the worship of diana , which almost the whole world then worshipped , acts . . all these lived under the government of caesar , being nothing hurtfull unto the commonwealth , giving unto caesar that which was his . and for their religion and consciences towards god , he left them to themselves , as having no dominion over their soules and consciences : and when the enemies of the truth raised up any tumults , the wisedome of the magistrate most wisely appeased them , acts . & . . unto this the answerer returnes thus much : it is true , that without prejudice to the common-wealth , libertie of conscience may be suffered to such as feare god indeed , as knowing they will not persist in heresie or turbulent schisme , when they are convinced in conscience of the sinfulnes thereof . but the question is , whether an heretick after once or twice admonition , ( and so after conviction ) and any other scandalous and heynous offender , may be tolerated either in the church without excommunication , or in the common-weale without such punishment as may preserve others from dangerous and damnable infection . chap. lxxix . truth . i here observe the answerers partiality , that none but such as truly feare god should enjoy libertie of conscience , whence the inhabitants of the world must either come into the estate of men fearing god , or else dissemble a religion in hypocrisie , or else be driven out of the world : one must follow . the first is only the gift of god , the second and third are too commonly practised upon this ground . againe , since there is so much controversie in the world , where the name of christ is taken up , concerning the true church , the ministrie and worship , and who are those that truly feare god ; i aske who shall judge in this case , who be they that feare god ? it must needs be granted , that such as have the power of suffring or not suffring , such consciences , must judge : and then must it follow ( as before i intimated ) that the civill state must judge of the truth of the spirituall ; and then magistrates fearing or not fearing god , must judge of the feare of god : also that their judgement or sentence must be according to their conscience , of what religion soever : or that there is no lawfull magistrate , who is not able to judge in such cases . and lastly , that since the soveraigne power of all civill authority is founded in the consent of the people , that every common-weale hath radically and fundamentally in it a power of true discerning the true feare of god , which they transfer to their magistrates and officers : or else that there are no lawfull kingdomes , cities , or townes in the world , in which a man may live , and unto whose civill government he may submit : and then ( as i said before ) there must be no world , nor is it lawfull to live in it , because it hath not a true discerning spirit to judge them that feare or not feare god. lastly , although this worthy answerer so readily grants , that libertie of conscience should be suffred to them that feare god indeed : yet we know what the ministers of the churches of new-england wrote in answer to the question sent to them by some ministers of old england , viz. that although they confest them to be such persons whom they approved of far above themselves , yea who were in their hearts to live and die together ; yet if they and other godly people with them , comming over to them , should differ in church constitution , they then could not approve their civill cohabitation with them , and consequently could not advise the magistrates to suffer them to enjoy a civill being within their iurisdiction . heare o heavens , and give eare o earth , yea let the heavens be astonished , and the earth tremble at such an answer as this from such excellent men to such whom they esteeme for godlinesse above themselves . chap. lxxix . peace . yea , but they say , they doubt not if they were there but they should agree ; for , say they , either you will come to us , or you may shew us light to come to you , for we are but weak men , and dreame not of perfection in this life . truth . alas , who knowes not what lamentable differences have beene betweene the same ministers of the church of england , some conforming , others leaving their livings , friends , country , life , rather then conforme ; when others againe ( of whose personall godlinesse it is not questioned ) have succeeded by conformity into such forsaken ( so called ) livings ? how great the present differences even amongst them that feare god , concerning faith , iustification , and the evidence of it ? concerning repentance and godly sorrow , as also and mainly concerning the church , the matter , forme , administration and government of it ? let none now thinke that the passage to new england by sea , or the nature of the countrey can doe what onely the key of david can doe , to wit , open and shut the consciences of men . beside , how can this bee a faithfull and upright acknowledgement of their weaknesse and imperfection , when they preach , print , and practise such violence to the soules and bodies of others , and by their rules and grounds ought to proceed even to the killing of those whom they judge so deare unto them , and in respect of godlinesse far above themselves ? chap. lxxx . peace . yea but ( say they ) the godly will not persist in heresie or turbulent schisme , when they are convinced in conscience , &c. truth . sweet truth , if the civill court and magistracy must judge ( as before i have writ●en ) and those civill courts are as lawfull , consisting of naturall men as of godly persons , then what consequences necessarily will ●ollow , i have before mentioned . and i adde , according to this conclusion it must follow , that , if the most godly persons yeeld not to once or twice admonition ( as is maintained by the answerer ) they must necessarily be esteemed obseinate persons , for if they were godly ( saith he ) they would yeeld . must it not then be said ( as it was by one , passing sentence of banishment upon some , whose godlinesse was acknowledged ) that he that commanded the iudge not to respect the poore in the cause of judgement , commands him not to respect the holy or the godly person ? hence i could name the place and time when a godly man , a most desirable person for his trade , &c. ( yet something different in conscience ) propounded his willingnesse and desire to come to dwell in a certaine towne in new england ; it was answered by the chiefe of the place , this man differs from us , and wee desire not to be troubled . so that in conclusion ( for no other reason in the world ) the poore man , though godly , usefull and peaceable , could not be admitted to a civill being and habitation on the common earth in that wildernesse amongst them . the latter part of the answer concerning the hereticke or obstinate person to be excommunicated , and the scandalous offender to be punished in the commonweale , which neither of both come neere our question : i have spoken i feare too largely already . peace . mr. cotton concludes with a confident perswasion of having removed the grounds of that great errour , viz. that persons are not to be persecuted for cause of conscience . truth . and i beleeve ( deare peace ) it shall appear to them that ( with feare and trembling at the word of the lord ) examine these passages , that the charge of errour reboundeth backe even such an errour , as may well bee called the bloody tenent , so directly contradicting the spirit and minde and practice of the prince of peace ; so deeply guilty of the blood of soules compelled and forced to ●●ypocrisie in a spirituall and soule rape ; so deeply guilty of the blood of the soules under the altar , persecuted in all ages for the cause of conscience , and so destructive to the civill peace and welfare of all kingdomes , countries , and commonwealths . chap. lxxxi . peace . to this conclusion ( deare truth ) i heartily subscribe , and know the god , the spirit , the prince , the angels , and all the true awaked sons of peace will call thee blessed . truth . how sweet and precious are these contemplations , but oh how sweet the actions and fruitions ? peace . thy lips drop as the honey-combe , honey and milke are under thy tongue ; oh that these drops , these streames might flow without a stop or interruption ! truth . the glorious white troopers ( rev. . ) shall in time be mounted , and he that is the most high prince of princes , and lord generall of generalls mounted upon the word of truth and meeknesse ( psal . ) shall triumph gloriously , and renew our meetings . but harke , what noise is this ? peace . these are the dolefull drums , and shrill sounding trumpets , the roaring murthering canons , the shouts of conquerours , the grones of wounded , dying , slaughtered , righteous with the wicked . deare truth how long ? how long these dreadfull sounds and direfull sights ? how long before my glad returne and restitution ? truth . sweet peace , who will beleeve my true report ? yet true it is , if i were once beleev'd , blest truth and peace should not so soone be parted . peace . deare truth , what welcome hast thou found of late beyond thy former times or present expectations ? truth . alas , my welcome changes as the times , and strongest swords and armes prevaile : were i beleeved in this , that christ is not delighted with the blood of men ( but shed his owne for his bloodiest enemies ) that by the word of christ no man for gainsaying christ , or joyning with his enemy antichrist , should bee molested with the civill sword : were this foundation laid as the magna charta of highest liberties , and good security given on all hands for the preservation of it , how soone should every brow and house be stucke with olive branches ? peace . this heavenly invitation makes mee bold once more to crave thy patient eare and holy tongue . errour●s impatient and soon tyred , but thou art light , and like the father of lights , unwearied in thy shinings . loe here what once againe i present to thy impartiall censure . a model of church and civil power . composed by mr. cotton and the ministers of new-england , and sent to the church at salem , as a further confirmation of the bloody doctrine of persecution for cause of conscience . examined and answered . chap. lxxxii . truth . vvhat hast thou there ? peace . here is a combination of thine owne children against thy very life and mine : h●re is a modell ( framed by many able learned and godly hands ) of such a church and common-weale as wakens moses from his unknown grave , and denies iesus yet to have seene the earth . truth . begin ( sweet peace ) read and propound . my hand shall not be tyred with holding the ballances of the sanctuarie : doe thou put in , and i shall weigh as in the presence of him whose pure eyes cannot behold iniquitie . peace . thus then speakes the preface or entrance . seeing god hath given a distinct power to church and common-weale , the one spirituall ( called the power of the keyes ) the other civill called the power of the sword ) and hath made the members of both societies subject to both authorities , so that every soule in the church is subject to the higher powers in the commonweale , and every member of the commonweale ( being a member of the church ) is subject to the lawes of christs kingdome , and in him to the censures of the church ; the question is , how the civill state and the church may dispence their severall governments without infringement and impeachment of the power and honour of the one or of the other , and what bounds and limits the lord hath set betweene both the administrations . truth . from that conclusion ( deare peace ) that every mem● of the commonweale , being a member of the church , is subject to the lawes of christs kingdome , and in him to the censure of the church ; i observe that they grant the church of christ in spirituall causes to be superiour and over the highest magistrates in the world , if members of the church . hence therefore i infer , may she refuse to receive , and may also cast forth any , yea even the highest ( if obstinate in sin ) cut of her spirituall society . hence in this spirituall society , that soule who hath most of christ , most of his spirit , is most ( spiritually ) honourable , according to the scriptures , quoted acts . . isa. . . gal. . . and if so , how can this stand with their common tenent , that the civill magistrate must keep the first table set up , reforme the church , and be iudge and governour in all ecclesiasticall as well as civill causes ? secondly , i observe the lamentable wresting of this one scripture , sometimes this scripture must prove the power of the civill magistrates , kings and governours , over the church in spirituall causes &c. yet here this scripture is produced to prove kings and magistrates ( in spirituall causes ) to be censured and corrected by the same church . ●tis true in severall respects , he that is a governour may be a subject but in one and the same spirituall respect to judge and to be judged : to sit on the bench , and stand at the bar of christ iesus , is as impossible as to reconcile the east and west together . chap. lxxxii . the first head , that both iurisdictions may stand together . peace . vvhereas divers affecting transcending power to themselves over the church have perswaded the princes of the world , that the kingdome of christ in his church cannot rise or stand , without the falls of those common-weales wherein it is set up , we do beleeve and professe the contrary to this suggestion ; the government of the one being of this world , the other not ; the church helping forward the prosperity of the commonweale by meanes only ecclesiasticall and spirituall ; the commonweale helping forward her owne and the churches felicity by meanes politicall or temporall ; the falls of commonweales being knowne to arise from their scattering and diminishing the power of the church , and the flourishing of commonweales with the well ordering of the people ( even in morall and civill virtues ) being observed to arise from the vigilant administration of the holy discipline of the church , as bodin , ( a man not partiall to church discipline ) plainely testifieth . the vices in the free estate of geneva , quae legibus nusquam vindicantur , by meanes of church discipline , sine vi & tumultu coercentur ; the christian liberty not freeing us from subjection to authority , but from inthrallment and bondage unto sinne . truth . ans. from this confession , that the church or kingdome of christ may be set up without prejudice of the commonweale , according to iohn . . my kingdome is not of this world , &c. i observe that although the kingdome of christ , the church and the civill kingdome or government be not inconsistent , but that both may stand together ; yet that they are independent according to that scripture , and that therefore there may be ( as formerly i have proved ) flourishing commonweales and societies of men● where no church of christ abideth ; and secondly , the commonweale may be in perfect peace and quiet , notwithstanding the church , the commonweale of christ be in distractions● and spirituall oppositions both against their religions , and sometimes amongst themselves , as the church of christ in corinth troubled with divisions , contentions , &c. secondly , i observe it is true the church helpeth forward the prosperity of the commonweale by spirituall meanes ier. . . the prayers of gods people procure the peace of the city , where they abide , yet that christs ordinances and administrations of worship are appointed and given by christ to any civill state , towne or city as is implied by the instance of geneva , that i confidently deny . the ordinances and discipline of christ iesus , though wrongfully and prophanely applied to naturall and unregenerate men may cast a blush of civillity and morality upon them as in geneva and other places ( for the shining brightnesse of the very shadow of christs ordinances casts a shame upon barbarisme and incivillity yet withall i affirme that the misapplication of ordinances to unregenerate and unrepentant persons hardens up their soules in a dreadfull sleep and dreame of their owne blessed estate , and sends millions of soules to hell in a secure expectation of a false salvation . chap. lxxxiv . the second head , concerning superiority of each power . peace . because contention may arise in future times which of these powers under christ is the greatest as it hath been under antichrist , we conceive first , that the power of the civill magistrates is superiour to the church policie in place , honours , dignity , earthly power in the world ; and the church superiour to him ( being a member of the church ) ecclesiastically , that is , in a church way ruling and ordering him by spirituall ordinances according to god for his soules health , as any other member , so that all the power the magistrate hath over the church is temporall not spirituall , and all the power the church hath over the magistrate is spirituall not temporall : and as the church hath no temporall power over the magistrate , in ordine ad bonum spirituale : so the magistrate hath no spirituall power over the church in ordine ad bonum temporale . secondly , the delinquencie of either party calleth for the exercise of the power of terrour from the other part ; for no rulers ordained of god are a terrour to good works , but to evill , rom. . . so that if the church offend , the offence of the church c●lleth upon the civill magistrate , either to seeke the healing thereof as a nursing father by his owne grave advice , and the advice of other churches ; or else if he cannot so prevaile to put forth and exercise the superiority of his power in redressing what is amisse according to the quality of the offence by the course of civill justice . on the other side , if the magistrate being a member of the church shall offend , the offence calleth upon the church either to seek the healing thereof in a brotherly way by conviction of his sinne ; or else if they cannot prevaile , then to exercise the superiority of their power in removing of the offence and recovering of the offendour by church censures . if the end of spirituall or church power is bonum spirituale , a spirituall good ; and the end of civill or state power is bonum temporale , a temporall good : and secondly , if the magistrate have no spirituall power to attaine to his temporall end , no more then a church hath any temporall power to attaine to her spirituall end , as is confest : i demand if this be not a contradiction against their owne disputes , tenents , and practices touching that question of persecution for cause of conscience : for if the magistrate be supreme iudge ( and so consequently give supreme judgement , sentence and determination ) in matters of the first table , and of the church , and be custos utriusque , tabule , keepers of both tables ( as they speake ) and yet have no spirituall power as is affirmed , how can he determine what the true church and ordinances are , and then set them up with the power of the sword ? how can he give judgement of a false church , a false ministery , a false doctrine , false ordinances , and with a civil sword pull them down , if he have no spiritual power , authority or commission from christ iesus for these ends and purposes ? further i argue thus : if the civill officers of state must determine , judge and punish in spiritual causes , his power , authority and commission must be either spirituall or civill , or else he hath none at all , and so acts without a commission and warrant from the lord iesus , and so consequently stands guilty at the bar of christ iesus to answer for such his practice as a transcendent delinquent . now for civill power , these worthy authors confesse that the government of the civill magistrate extendeth no further then over the bodies and goods of the subject , and therefore hath no civill power over the soule , and therefore ( say i ) not in soule-causes . secondly , it is here confest in this passage , that to attaine his civill end or bonum temporale , he hath no spirituall power , and therefore of necessitie out of their own mouths must they be judged for provoking the magistrate , without either civill or spirituall power , to judge , punish and persecute in spirituall causes ; and to feare and tremble , lest they come neere those frogs which proceed out of the mouth of the dragon and beast and false prophet , who by the same arguments which the authours here use stirre up the kings of the earth to make warre against the lambe christ iesus , and his followers , revel . . chap. lxxxv . in the next place i observe upon the point of delinquencie , such a confusion , as heaven and earth may stand amazed at : if the church offend ( say they ) after advice refused , in conclusion the magistrate must redresse , that is , punish the church ( that is , in church offences and cases ) by a course of civill justice . on the other side , if the civill magistrate offend after admonition used , and not prevailing , in conclusion the church proceeds to censure , that is , to excommunication , as is afterward more largely proved by them . now i demand , if the church be a delinquent , who shall judge ? it is answered , the magistrate . againe , if the magistrate be a delinquent , i aske who shall judge ? it is answered , the church . whence i observe , ( which is monstrous in all cases in the world ) that one person , to wit , the church or magistrate , shall be at one time the delinquent at the bar , and the iudge upon the bench. this is cleere thus : the church must judge when the magistrate offends ; and yet the magistrate must judge when the church offends ; and so consequently in this case must judge whether she contemne civill authority in the second table , for thus dealing with him : or whether she have broken the rules of the first table , of which ( say they ) god hath made him keeper and conserver . and therefore , though the church make him a delinquent at the bar , yet by their confession god hath made him a iudge on the bench. what blood , what tumults hath been , and must be spilt upon these grounds ? peace . deare truth , no question but the church may punish the magistrate spiritually in spirituall cases ; and the magistrate may punish the church , civilly , in civill cases : but that for one and the same cause the church must punish the magistrate , and the magistrate the church , this seemes monstrous , and needs explication . truth . sweet peace , i illustrate with this instance : a true church of christ ( of which , according to the authors supposition , the magistrate is a member ) chooseth and calls one of her members to office : the magistrate opposeth : the church perswaded that the magistrates exceptions are insufficient ( according to her priviledge , which these authours maintaine against the magistrates prohibition ) proceeds to ordaine her officer : the magistrate chargeth the church to have made an unfit and unworthy choice , and therefore according to his place and power , and according to his conscience and judgement he suppresseth such an officer , and makes void the churches choice : upon this the church complaines against the magistrates violation of her priviledges● given her by christ iesus , and cries out that the magistrate is turned persecuter● and not prevailing with admonition , she proceeds to excommunication against him : the magistrate according to his conscience , endures not such profanation of ordinances as he conceives ; and therefore , if no advice and admonition prevaile , he proceeds against such obstinate abusers of christs holy ordinances , ( as the authors grant he may ) in civill court of justice , yea and ( i adde according to the patterne of israel ) cuts them off by the sword , as obstinate usurpers and prophaners of the holy things of christ. i demand what helpe hath any poore church of christ in this case , by maintaining this power of the magistrate to punish the church of christ , i meane in spirituall and soule-cases , for otherwise i question not but he may put all the members of the church to death justly , if they commit crimes worthy thereof , as paul spake , acts . shall the church here slie to the popes sanctuarie against emperours and princes excommunicate , to wit , give away their crowns , kingdomes or dominions , and invite forraigne princes to make war upon them and their territories ? the authors surely will disclaime this ; and yet i shall prove their tenents tend directly unto such a practise . or secondly , shall she say the magistrate is not a true magistrate ' because not able to judge and determine in such cases ? this , their confession will not give them leave to say , because they cannot deny unbelievers to be lawfull magistrates : and yet it shall appeare ( not withstanding their con●ession to the contrary ) their tenents imply , that none but a magistrate after their own conscience , is a lawfull magistrate . therefore , thirdly , they must ingenuously and honestly confesse , that if it be the duty of the magistrate to punish the church in spirituall cases , he must then judge according to his conscience and perswasion , whatever his conscience be : and then let all men judge into what a wofull state they bring both the civill magistrate and church of christ , by such a church-destroying and state-destroying doctrine . peace . some will here say , in such a case either the magistrate on the church must judge ; either the spirituall or civill state must be supreme . i answer , if the magistrate be of another religion , first , what hath the church to judge him being without ? cor. . secondly , if he be a member of the church● doubtles the church hath power to judge ( in spirituall and soule-cases ) with spirituall and church censures all that are within , ● cor. . thirdly , if the church offend against the civill peace of the state , by wronging the bodies or goods of any , the magistrate bears not the sword in vaine , rom. . to correct any or all the members of the church . and this i conceive to be the onely way of the god of peace . chap. lxxxvi . the third head concerns the end of both these powers . first the common and last end of both is gods glory , and mans eternall felicitie . secondly , the proper ends : first of commonwealth , is the procuring , preserving , increasing of externall and temporall peace and felicitie of the state in all godlines and honestie , tim. . , . secondly , of the church , a begetting , preserving , increasing of internall and spirituall peace and felicity of the church , in all godlinesse and honesty , esay . , . and . . so that magistrates have power given them from christ in matters of religion , because they are bound to see that ou●ward peace be preserved , not in all ungodlinesse and dishonesty ( for such peace is satanicall ) but in all godlinesse and honesty , for such peace god aymes at . and hence the magistrate is custos of both the tables of godlinesse , in the first of honesty , in the second for peace sake . hee must see that honesty be preserved within his jurisdiction , or else the subject will not be bonus cives . hee must see that godlinesse as well as honesty be preserved , else the subject will not be bonus vir , who is the best bonus cives . hee must see that godlinesse and honesty be preserved , or else himselfe will not bee bonus magistratus . truth . in this passage here are divers particulars affirmed marvellous destructive both to godlinesse and honesty , though under a faire ma●ke and colour of both . first , it will appeare that in spirituall things they make the garden and the wildernesse ( as often i have intimated ) i say the garden and the wildernesse , the church and the world are all one : for thus , if the powers of the world or civill state , are bound to propose externall peace in all godlinesse for their end , and the end of the church be to preserve internall peace in all godlinesse , i demand if their end ( godlinesse● bee the same , is not their power and state the same also , unlesse they make the church subordinate to the common-wealths and , or the commonweale subordinate to the churches end , which ( being the governour and setter up of it , and so consequently the iudges of it ) it cannot be ? now i● godlinesse bee the worshipping and walking with god in christ , is not the magistrate and commonweale charged more by this tenent with the worship and ordinances of god , then the church , for the magistrate they charge with the externall peace in godlinesse , and the church but with the internall . i aske further , what is this internall peace in all godlinesse ? whether intend they internall within the soule , which onely the eye of god can see , opposed to externall or visible , which man also can discerne ? or else whether they meane internall , that is spirituall soule matters , ma●ters of gods worship , and then i say that peace ( to wit , of godlinesse or gods worship ) they had before granted to the civill state ? peace . the truth is , ( as i now perceive ) the best and most godly of that judgement declare themselves never to have seene a true difference betweene the church and the world , and the spirituall and civill state ; and how●oever these worthy authours seeme to make a kinde of separation from the world , and professe that the church must consist of spirituall and living stones , saints , regenerate persons , and so make some peculiar inclosed ordinances , as the supper of the lord , ( which none , say they , but godly persons must taste of ) yet by compelling all within their iurisdiction to an outward conformity of the church worship , of the word and prayer , and maintenance of the ministry thereof , they evidently declare that they still lodge and dwell in the confused mixtures of the uncleane and cleane , of the flock of christ , and herds of the world together , i meane in spirituall and religious worship . truth . for a more ful and clear discussion of this scripture , tim. . . . ( on which is weakly built such a mighty building ) i shall propose and resolve these foure quaeries . chap. lxxxvii . first , what is meant by godlinesse and honesty in this place . secondly , what may the scope of the holy spirit of god be in this place . thirdly , whether the civill magistrate was then custos utri●●sque tabulae , keeper of both tables , &c. fourthly , whether a church or congregation of christians may not live in godlinesse and honesty , although the civill magistrate be of another conscience and worship , and the whole state and country with him . to the first , what is here meant by godlinesse and honesty ? answ. i finde not that the spirit of god here intendeth the first and second table . for , how ever the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 signifie godlinesse , or the worship of god , yet the second word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 i finde not that it signifies such an honesty as compriseth the duties of the second table , but such an honesty as signifies solemnity , gravity , and so it is turned by the translatours , tit. . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , that is , in doctrine , incorruptnesse , gravity : which doctrine cannot there bee taken for the doctrine of the civill state , or second table , but the gravity , majesty , and solemnity of the spirituall doctrine of christianity . so that according to the translatours owne rendring of that word in titus , this place of timothy should be thus rendred ( in all godlinesse ( or worshipping of god ) and gravity ) that is , a solemne or grave profession of the worship of god ; and yet this mistaken and misinterpreted scripture is that great castle and strong hold which so many ●lye unto concerning the magistrates charge over the two tables . secondly , what is the scope of the spirit of god in this place ? i answer first negatively , the scope is not to speake of the duties of the first and second table : nor secondly is the scope to charge the magistrate with forcing the people ( who have chose him ) to godlinesse or gods worship , according to his conscience , ( the magistrate keeping the peace of externall godlinesse , and the church of internall , as is affirmed : ) but secondly , positively , i say the spirit of god by paul in this place provokes timothy and the church at ephesus , and so consequently all the ministers of christs churches and christians , to pray for two things . first , for the peaceable and quiet state of the countries and places of their abode , that is implyed in their praying ( as paul directs them ) for a quiet and peaceable condition , and suits sweetly with the command of the lord to his people , even in babel , ier. . . pray for the peace of the city , and seeke the good of it , for in the peace thereof it shall goe well with you . which ruie will hold in any pagan or popish city , and therefore consequently are gods people to pray against warres , famines , pestilences , and especially to bee far from kindling coales of war , and endeavour the bringing in and advancing their conscience by the sword . secondly , they are here commanded to pray for the salvation of all men , that all men , and especially kings and magistrates might be saved , and come to the knowledge of the truth , implying that the grave or solemne and shining profession of godlinesse or gods worship according to christ iesus , is a blessed meanes to cause all sorts of men to be affected with the christian profession , and to come to the same knowledge of that one god and one mediatour christ iesus . all which tends directly against what it is brought for , to wit , the magistrates forcing all men to godlinesse or the worshipping of god , which in truth causeth the greatest breach of peace , and the greatest distractions in the world , and the setting up that for godlinesse or , worship which is no more then nebuchadnezzars golden image , a state worship , and in some places the worship of the beast , and his image , dan . rev. . chap. lxxxviii . thirdly , i quaerie whether the civill magistrate ( which was then the roman emperour ) was keeper or guardian of both tables ( as is affirmed . ) scripture and all history tell us , that those caesars were not only ignorant , without god , without christ , &c. but professed worshippers or maintainers of the roman gods or divells ; as also notorious for all sorts of wickednesse , and lastly , cruell and bloudy lions , and tygers toward the christians for many hundred yeares . hence i argue from the wisdome , love and faithfulnesse of the lord iesus in his house , it was impossible that he should appoint such ignorant , such idolatrous , such wicked and such cruell persons to be his chiefe officers and deputy lieutenants under himselfe to keep the worship of god , to guard his church , his wife : no wise and loving father was ever knowne to put his childe , no not his beasts , dogs or swine , but unto fitting keepers . men judge it matter of high complaint , that the records of parliament , the kings children , the tower of london , the great seale should be committed to unworthy keepers ! and can it be without high blasphemie conceived that the lord iesus should commit his sheep , his children , yea his spouse , his thousand shields and bucklers in the tower of his church● and lastly , his great and glorious broad seales of baptisme and his supper , to be preserved pure in their adminstrations , i say that the lord iesus who is wisdome , and faithfulnesse it selfe , should deliver these to such keepers . peace . some will say , it is one thing what persons are in ●act and practice : another what they ought to be by right and office . truth . in such cases as i have mentioned , no man doth in the common eye of reason deliver such matters of charge and trust to such as declare themselves and sinnes ( like sodome ) at the very time of this great charge and trust to be committed to them . peace . it will further be said , that many of the kings of iudah who had the charge of establishing , reforming ( and so consequently of keeping the first table ) the church , gods worship , &c. were notoriously wicked , idolatrous , &c. truth . i must then say , the case is not alike , for when the lord appointed the government of israel after the rejection of saul to establish a covenant of succession in the type unto christ , let it bee minded what patterne and president it pleased the lord to set for the after kings of israel and iudah , in david the man after his owne heart . but now the lord iesus being come himselfe , and having fulfilled the former types , and dissolved the nationall state of the church , and established a more spirituall way of worship all the world over , and appointed a spirituall government and governours , it is well knowne what the roman caesars were , under whom both christ iesus himselfe and his servants after him lived and suffered ; so that if the lord iesus had appointed any such deputies ( as we finde not a tittle to that purpose , nor have a shadow of true reason so to thinke ) he must i say in the very first institution , have pitched upon such persons for these custodes utri●●que tabulae , ke●pers of both tables , as no man wi●e , or faithfull or loving , would have cho●en in any of the former instances or cases of a more inferiour nature . beside to that great pretence of israel , i have largely spoken to● secondly , i aske how could the roman caesars or any civill magistrates be cust●des , keepers of the church and worship of god , when as the authours of these positions acknowledge , that their civill power extends but to bodies and goods . and for spirituall power they say they have none , ad bonum temporale ( to a temporall good ) which is their proper end , and then having neither civill nor spirituall power from the lord iesus to this purpose , how come they to be such keepers as is pretended ? thirdly , if the roman emperours were keepers , what keepers were the apostles , unto whom the lord iesus gave the care and charge of the churches , and by whom the lord iesus charged timothy , tim. . to keep those commands of the lord iesus without spot untill his comming . these keepers were called the foundation of the church , ephes. . . and made up the crowne of stars about the head of the woman , rev. . whose names were also written in the foundations of new ierusalem , rev. . yea what keepers then are the ordinary officers of the church appointed to be the shepherds or keepers of the flocke of christ , appointed to be the porters or dore-keepers and to watch in the absence of christ , mark . . acts . , yea what charge hath the whole church it selfe , which is the pillar and ground of truth , tim. . in the midst of which christ is present with his power , cor. . to keep out or cast out the impenitent and obstinate , even kings and emperours themselves from their spirituall society , cor. . iam. . . gal. . . . i aske whether in the time of the kings of israel and iudah ( whom i confesse in the typicall and nationall state to be charged with both tables ) i aske whether the kings of the assyrians , the kings of the ammonites , moabites , philistims , were also constituted and ordained keepers of the worship of god as the kings of iudah were ( for they were also lawfull magistrates in their dominions ? ) or whether the roman emperours were custodes , or keepers more then they ? or more then the king of babylon nebuchadnezzar , under whose civill government gods people lived , and in his owne land and city , ●er . . chap. lxxxix . peace . you remember ( deare truth ) that constantin● , theodos●us , and others were made to beleeve that they were the antitypes of the kings of iudah , the church of god ; and henry the . was told that that title defensor fidei , defendour of the faith ( though sent him by the pope for writing against luther ) was his owne diadem due unto him from heaven . so likewise since , the kings and q●eens of england have been instructed . truth . but it was not so from the beginning , as that very difference between that nationall state of the church of god then , and other kings and magistrates of the world ( not so charged ) doth clearly evince and leadeth us to the spirituall king of the church , christ iesus the king of israel , and his spirituall government and governours therein . fifthly , i aske whether had the roman caesars more charge to see all their subjects observe and submit to the worship of god in their dominion of the world , then a master , father or husband now under the gospel in his familie ? families are the foundations of government , for what is a commonweale , but a commonweale of families agreeing to live together for common good ? now in families , suppose a beleeving christian husband hath an unbeleeving antichristian wife , what other charge in this respect is given to an husband , cor. . but to dwell with her as an husband if she be pleased to dwell with him : but , to bee so farre from forcing her from her conscience unto his , as that if for his conscience sake she would depart , he was not to force her to tarry with him , cor. . consequently the father or husband of the state differing from the commonweale in religion , ought not to force the common-weale , nor to be forced by it : yet is he to continue a civill husbands care , if the commonweale will live with him , and abide in civill covenant . now as a husband by his love to the truth and holy conversation in it , and seasonable exhortations , ought to indeavour to save his wife , yet abhorring to use corporall compulsion ( yea , in this case to childe or servant ) so ought the father , husband , governor of the commonweale endeavour to win and save whom possibly he may , yet farre from the appearance of civill violence . sixthly , if the romane emperours were charged by christ with his worship in their dominion , and their dominion was over the world ( as was the dominion of the grecian , persian , and babylonian monarchy before them ) who sees not if the whole world bee forced to turne christian ( as afterward and since it hath pretended to doe ) who sees not then that the world ( for whom christ jesus would not pray ) and the god of it , are reconciled to iesus christ , and the whole field of the world become his inclosed garden ? seventhly , if the romane emperors ought to have been by christs appointment keepers of both tables , antitypes of israel and iudahs kings , how many millions of idolaters and blasphemers against christ iesus and his worship ought they to have put to death according to israels patterne ? lastly , i aske ( if the lord iesus had delivered his sheepe and children to these wolves , his wife and spouse to such adulterers , his precious iewels to such great theeves and robbers of the world as the romane emperours were , what is the reason that he was never pleased to send any of his servants to their gates to crave their helpe & assistance in this his worke , to put them in minde of their office , to chalenge and claime such a service from them according to their office , as it pleased god alwayes to send to the kings of israel and judah in the like case ? peace . some will here object pauls appealing to caesar. truth . and i must refer them to what i formerly answered to that objection . paul never appealed to caesar as a judge appointed by christ jesus to give definitive sentence in any spirituall or church controversie , but against that civill violence and murther which the iewes intended against him , paul justly appealed : for otherwise if in a spirituall cause he should have appealed , he should have overthrowne his owne apostleship and power given him by christ iesus in spirituall things , above the highest kings or emperors of the world beside . chap. xc . peace . blessed truth , i shall now remember you of the fourth quaerie upon this place of timothy , to wit , whether a church of christ iesus may not live in gods worship and comelinesse , notwithstanding that the civill magistrate professe not the same but a contrary religion and worship in his owne person and the country with him . truth . i answer the churches of christ under the roman emperours did live in all godlinesse and christian gravity , as appeares by all their holy and glorious practices , which the scripture abundantly testifies . secondly , this ●lowes from an institution or appointment of such a power and authority , left by the lord iesus to his apostles and churches , that no ungodlinesse or dishonesty in the first appearance of it was to be suffered , but supprest and cast out from the churches of christ , even the little leaven of doctrine or practice , corinth . . gal. . lastly , i adde , that although sometimes it pleaseth the lord to vouchsafe his servants peace and quietnesse , and to command them here in timothy to pray for it , for those good ends and purposes for which god hath appointed civill magistracy in the world , to keepe the world in peace and quietnesse . yet gods people have used most to abound with godlinesse and honesty , when they have enjoyed least peace and quietnesse . then like those spices , cant. . myrrhe , frankincense , saffron , calamus , &c. they have yeelded the sweetest favour to god and man , when they were pounded and burnt in cruell persecution of the romane censors : then are they ( as gods venison ) most sweet when most hunted : gods stars shining brightest in the darkest night : more heavenly in conversation , more mortified : more abounding in love each to other , more longing to be with god : when the inhospitable and salvage world hath used them like strangers , and forced them to hasten home to another country which they professe to seeke . chap. xci . peace . deare truth , it seemes not to be unseasonable to close up this passage with a short descant upon that assertion , viz. a subject without godlinesse will not be bonus vir , a good man , nor a magistrate except he see godlinesse preserved , will not be bonus magistratus . truth . i confesse that without godlinesse or a true w●rshipping of god with an upright heart according to gods ordinances , neither subjects nor magistrates can please god in christ iesus , and so be spiritually or christianly good , which few magistrates and few men either come to , or are ordained unto : god having chosen a little ●lock out of the world , and those generally poore and meane , cor. . iam. . yet this i must remember you of , that when the most high god created all things of nothing , he saw and acknowledged divers sorts of goodnesse , which must still be acknowledged in their distinct kindes : a good ayre , a good ground , a good tree , a good sheepe , &c. i say the same in artificialls , a good garment , a good house , a good sword , a good ship. i also adde a good city , a good company or corporation , a good husband , father , master . hence also we say , a good physitian , a good lawyer , a good sea-man , a good merchant , a good pilot , for such or such ● shoare or harbour , that is , morally , civilly good in their severall civill respects and imployments . hence ( psal. . ) the church or citie of god is compared to a citie compact within it selfe ; which compactnes may be found in many townes and cities of the world , where yet hath not shined any spirituall or supernaturall goodnesse . hence the lord iesus ( matth. . ) describes an ill state of an house or kingdome , viz. to be divided against it selfe , which cannot stand . these i observe to prove , that a subject , a magistrate , may be a good subject , a good magistrate , in respect of civill or morall goodnes , which thousands want , and where it is , it is commendable and beautifull , though godlines which is infinitely more beautifull , be wanting , and which is onely proper to the christian state , the commonweale of israel , the true church , the holy nation , ephes. . pet. . lastly , however the authors deny that there can be bonus magistratus , a good magistrate , except the see all godlines preserved ; yet themselves confesse that civill honesty is sufficient to make a good subject , in these words , viz. he must see that honestie be preserved within his jurisdiction , else the subject will not be bonus civ●s , a good citizen : and doubtlesse ( if the law of relations hold true ) that civill honestie which makes a good citizen , must also ( together with qualifications sit for a commander ) make also a good magistrate . chap. xcii . peace . the . head is , the proper meanes of both these powers to attaine their ends . first , the proper meanes whereby the civill power may and should attaine its end , are onely politicall , and principally these five . first the erecting and establishing what forme of civill government may seeme in wisedome most meet , according to generall rules of the word , and state of the people . secondly , the making , publishing , and establishing of wholesome civill lawes , not only such as concerne civill justice , but also the free passage of true religion : for , outward civill peace ariseth and is maintained from them both , from the latter as well as from the former : civill peace cannot stand intire , where religion is corrupted , chron. . . . . iudg. . and yet such lawes , though conversant about religion , may still be counted civill lawes , as on the contrary , an oath doth still remaine religious , though conversant about civill matters . thirdly , election and appointment of civill officers , to see execution of those lawes . fourthly , civill punishments and rewards , of transgressors and observers of these lawes . fifthly , taking up armes against the enemies of civill peace . secondly , the meanes whereby the church may and should attaine her ends , are only ecclesiasticall , which are chiefly five . first , setting up that forme of church government only , of which christ hath given them a pattern in his word . secondly , acknowledging and admitting of no lawgiver in the church , but christ , and the publishing of his lawes . thirdly , electing and ordaining of such officers onely , as christ hath appointed in his word . fourthly , to receive into their fellowship them that are approved , and in●licting spirituall censures against them that offend . fifthly , prayer and patience in suffering any evill from them that be without , who disturbe their peace . so that magistrates , as magistrates , have no power of setting up the forme of church government , electing church officers , punishing with church censures , but to see that the church doth her duty herein . and on the other side , the churches as churches , have no power ( though as members of the common-weale they may have power ) of erecting or altering formes of civill government , electing of civill officers , inflicting civill punishments ( no not on persons excommunicate ) as by deposing magistrates from their civill authoritie , or withdrawing the hearts of the people against them , to their lawes , no more then to discharge wives , or children , or servants , from due obedience to their husbands , parents , or masters : or by taking up armes against their magistrates , though he persecute them for conscience : for though members of churches who are publique officers also of the civill state , may suppresse by force the violence of usurpers , as iehoiada did athaliah , yet this they doe not as members of the church , but as officers of the civill state. truth . here are divers considerable passages which i shall briefly examine , so far as concernes o●r controversie . first , whereas they say , that the civill power may erect and establish what forme of civill government may seeme in wisedome most meet , i acknowledge the proposition to be most true , both in it self , and also considered with the end of it , that a civill government is an ordinance of god , to conserve the civill peace of people , so farre as concernes their bodies and goods , as formerly hath beene said . but from this grant i infer , ( as before hath been touched ) that the soveraigne , originall , and foundation of civill power lies in the people , ( whom they must needs meane by the civill power distinct from the government set up . ) and if so , that a people may erect and establish what forme of government seemes to them most meete for their civill condition : it is evident that such governments as are by them erected and established , have no more power , nor for no longer time , then the civill power or people consenting and agreeing shall betrust them with . this is cleere not only in reason , but in the experience of all common-weales , where the people are not deprived of their naturall freedome by the power of tyrants . and if so , that the magistrates receive their power of governing the church , from the people ; undeniably it followes , that a people , as a people , naturally considered ( of what nature or nation soever in europe , asia , africa or america ) have fundamentally and originally , as men , a power to governe the church , to see her doe her duty , to correct her , to redresse , reforme , establish , &c. and if this be not to pull god and christ , and spirit out of heaven , and subject them unto naturall , sinfull , inconstant men , and so consequently to sathan himselfe , by whom all peoples naturally are guided , let heaven and earth judge . peace . it cannot by their owne grant be denied , but that the wildest indians in america ought ( and in their kind and severall degrees doe ) to agree upon some formes of government , some more civill , compact in townes , &c. some lesse . as also that their civill and earthly governments be as lawfull and true as any governments in the world , and therefore consequently their governors are keepers of the church or both tables , ( if any church of christ should arise or be amongst them : ) and therefore lastly , ( if christ have betrusted and charged the civill power with his church ) they must judge according to their indian or american consciences , for other consciences it cannot be supposed they should have . chap. xciii . truth . againe , whereas they say that outward civill peace cannot stand where religion is corrupted ; and quote for it , chron. . . . & iudges . i answer with aam●ration how such excellent spirits ( as these authors are furnished with , not only in heavenly but earthly affaires ) should so forget , and be so fast asleep in things so palpably evident , as to say that outward civill peace cannot stand , where religion is corrupt . when so many stately kingdomes and governments in the world have long and long enjoyed civill peace and quiet , notwithstanding their religion is so corrupt , as that there is not the very name of iesus christ amongst them : and this every historian , merchant , traveller , in europe● asia , africa , america , can testifie : for so spake the lord iesus himselfe , ioh. . the world shall sing and rejoyce . secondly , for that scripture chron. . &c relating the miseries of israel and iudah , and gods pla●es upon the people for corruption of their religion , it must still have refere●ce 〈◊〉 peculiar state unto which god called the seed of one man , abraham , in a figure , dealing so with them as he dealt not with any nation in the world , psal. . ● rom. . the antitype to this state i have proved to be the christian church , which consequently hath been and is ●fflict●d 〈◊〉 spirituall plagues , desolations and captiviti●s , for cor●upting of that religion which hath been revealed unto them . this appeares by the churches , and the people of god , now so many ●u●dre● yeares in wofull bondage and slaverte to the mysticall babel , untill the time of their joyfull deliverance . peace . yea but they say that such lawes as are conversant about religion , may still be account●d civill lawes , as on the contrary an oath doth still remaine religious , though conversant about civill matters . truth . lawes respecting religion are two-fold : first , such as concerne the acts of worship and the worship it self , the ministers of it , their fitnes or unfitnes , to be suppressed or established : and for such lawes we find no footing in the new testament of jesus christ. secondly , lawes respecting religion may be such as meerly concerne the civill state , bodies and goods of such and such persons , professing these and these religions , viz● that such and such persons , notorious for mutinies , treasons● rebellions , massacres , be disarmed : againe , that no persons papists , iewes , turkes , or indians be disturbed at their worship , ( a thing which the very indians abhor to practice toward any . ) also that imanitie and freedome from tax and toll may be granted unto the people of such or such a religion , as the magistrate pleaseth , ezra . these and such as are of this nature , concerning only the bodies and goods of such and such religious persons , i confesse are meerely ci●ill . but now on the other hand , that lawes restraining persons from such and such a worship , because the civill state judgeth it to be false : that laws constraining to such & such a worship , because the civill state judgeth this to be the only ●rue way of worshipping god : that such and such a reformation of worship be submitted unto by all subjects in such a iurisdiction : that such and such churches , ministers , ministries be pull● downe , and such and such churches , ministries , and ministrations set up : that such lawes properly concerning religion● god , the soules of men , should be civill lawes and constitutions ; is as far from reason , as that the commandements of paul , which he gave the churches concerning christs worship ( cor. . & cor. . ) were civill and earthly constitutions : or that the canon and constitutions of either oecum●nicall or nationall synods concerning religion , should be civill and state-conclusions and agreements . to that instance of an oath remaining rel●gious though conversant about civill things ; i answer and acknowledge , an oath may be spirituall , though taken about earthly businesse , and accordingly it will prove , and onely prove what before i have said , that a law may be civill though it concerne persons of this and of that religion , that is as the persons professing it are concerned in civill respects of b●dies or goods , as i have opened ; whereas if it concerne the soules and religions of men simply so considered in reference to god , it must of necessity put on the nature of a religious or spirituall ordinance or constitution . besides , it is a most improper and fallacious instance for an oath , being an invocation of a true or false god to judge in a case , is an action of a spirituall and religious nature , what ever the subject matter be about which it is taken , whether civill or religious : but a law or constitution may be civill or religious , as the subject about which it is conversant is , either civill ( meerly concerning bodies or goods ) or religious concerning soule and worship . chap. xciv . peace . their fifth head is concerning the magistrates power in making of lawes . first , they have power to publish and apply such civill lawes in a state as either are exprest in the word of god in moses judicialls ( to wit , so far as they are of generall and morall equity , and so binding all nations in all ages ) to bee deducted by way of generall consequence and proportion from the word of god. for in a free state no magistrate hath power over the bodies , goods , lands , liberties of a free people , but by their free consents . and because free men are not free lords of their owne estates , but are onely stewards under god , therefore they may not give their free consents to any magistrate to dispose of their bodies , goods , lands , liberties at large as themselves please , but as god ( the soveraigne lord of all ) alone . and because the word is a perfect rule as wel of righteousnes as of holines , it will be therefore necessary that neither the people give consent , nor that the magistrate take power to dispose of the bodies , goods , lands , liberties of the people , but according to the lawes and rules of the word of god. secondly , in making lawes about civill and indifferent things about the commonweale . first , he hath no power given him of god to make what laws he please , either in restraining from , or constraining to the use of indifferent things , because that which is indifferent in its nature , ma● sometimes bee inexpedient in its use , and consequently unlawfull , cor. . . it having been long since defended upon good ground , quicquid non expeait , quatenus non expedit , non licet . secondly , he hath no power to make any such lawes about indifferent things , wherein nothing good or evill is shewne to the people , but onely or principally the meere authority or wil of the imposer for the observance of them , colos. . , . cor. . , compared with ephes. . . it is a prerogative proper to god to require obedience of the sonnes of men , because of his authority and will. the will of no man is regula recti , unlesse first it bee regula recta . it is an evill speech of some , that in some things the will of the law , not the ratio of it , must be the rule of conscience to walke by ; and that princes may forbid men to seeke any other reason but their authority , yea when they command frivola & dura . and therefore it is the duty of the magistrate in all lawes about indifferent things , to shew the reasons , not onely the will , to shew the expediency , as well as the indifferency of things of that nature . for we conceive in lawes of this nature , it is not the will of the lawgiver onely , but the reason of the law which bindes . ratio est rex legis , & lex est rex regis . thirdly , because the judgement of expedient and inexpedient things is often difficult and diverse , it is meet that such lawes should not proceed without due consideration of the rules of expediency set downe in the word , which are these three : first , the rule of piety , that they may make for the glory of god , cor. . . secondly , the rule of charity , that no scandall come hereby to any weake brother , cor. . . thirdly , the rule of charity , that no man be forced to submit against his conscience , rom. . . . nor be judged of contempt of lawfull authority , because he is not suddenly perswaded of the expediency of indifferent things ; for if the people be bound by god to receive such lawes about such things , without any triall or satisfaction to the conscience , but must judge them expedient because the magistrate thinkes them so , then the one cannot be punished in following the other , in case he shall sinne in c●lling inexpedient expedient ; but christ saith the contrary , if the blinde lead the blinde , they shall both fall . truth . in this passage these worthy men lay downe such a ground , as the gates of hell are not able to shake concerning the magistrates walking in indifferent things : and upon which ground that towre of lebanon may be raised whereon there hang a thousand shields and bucklars , cant . to wit , that invincible truth , that no man is to be persecuted for cause of conscience : the ground is this : the magist●ate hath not power to make what lawes he please , either in restraining or constraining to the use of indifferent things : and further he confesseth that the reason of the law , not the will of it must be the rule of conscience . and they adde this impregnable reason : viz. if the people be bound to receive such lawes without satisfaction to conscience , then one cannot be punished for following the other , in case he shall sinne contrary to christ jesus , who saith , if the blinde lead the blinde , they shall both fall . hence i argue , if the civill magistrate have no power to restraine or constraine their subjects in things in their owne nature indifferent , as in eating of meats , wearing this or that garment , using this or that gesture , but that they are bound to try and examine his commands , and satisfie their owne reason , conscience and judgement before the lord , and that they shall sinne , if they follow the magistrates command , not being perswaded in their owne soule and conscience that his commands are according to god! it will be much more unlawfull and heynous in the magistrate to compell the subjects unto that which ( according to their consciences perswasion ) is simply unlawfull as unto a falsely constituted church , ministry , worship , administration , and they shall not escape the d●ch , by being led blindefold by the magistrate , but though hee fall in first , yet they shall in after him , and upon him , to his greater and more dreadfull judgement . in particular thus , if the magistrate may restraine me from that gesture in the supper of the lord , which i am perswaded i ought to practice , he may also restraine me by his commands from that supper of the lord it selfe in such or such a church according to my conscience . if he cannot ( as they grant ) constraine me to such or such a garment in the worship of god , can he constraine me to worship god by such a ministry , and with such worship , which my soule and conscience cannot be perswaded is of god ? if he cannot command me in that circumstance of time to worship god this or that day , can he command mee to the worship it selfe ? peace . me thinkes i discerne a threefold guilt to lye upon such civill powers as impose upon and inforce the conscience , though not unto the ministration and participation of the seales , yet either to depart from that worship which it is perswaded of , or to any exercise or worship which it hath not faith in . first , of an appearance of that arminian popish doctrine of freewill , as if it lay in their owne power and ability to beleeve upon the magistrates command since it is confessed that what is submitted to by any without faith it is sinne , be it never so true and holy rom. . secondly , since god only openeth the heart and worketh the will , phil. . it seemes to be an high presumption to suppose that together with a command restraining from , or constraining to worship , that god is also to be forced or commanded to give faith to open the heart to incline the will , &c. thirdly , a guilt of the hypocrisie of their subjects and people in forcing them to act and practice in matters of religion and worship against the doubts and checks of their consciences , causing their bodies to worship , when their soules are far off , to draw near with their lips , their hearts being far off , &c. with lesse sinne ten thousand fold may a naturall ●ather force his 〈◊〉 , or the father of the commonweale force all the maydens in a country to the marriage beds of such and such men whom they cannot love , then the soules of these and other subjects to such worship or ministry , which is either a true or false , because cant. . . truth . sweet peace , your conclusions are undeniable , and o that they might sinke deep into those noble and honourable bosomes it so deeply concernes ! but proceed . chap. xcv . peace . in that fifth head they further say thus : thirdly , in matters ecclesiasticall we beleeve , first , that civill magistrates have no power to make or constitute lawes about church affaires which the lord jesus hath not ordained in his word for the well ordering of the church ; for the apostle solemnely chargeth timothy , and in him all goverours of the church , before god and the lord jesus christ ( who is the only potentate , the king of kings , and lord of lords ) that the commandement given by him for the ordering of the church be kept without spot unrebukeable to the appearing of the lord jesus christ , tim. . . . and this commandement given in the word , the apostle faith is able to make the man of god perfect in all righteousnesse , tim. . . and indeed the adminstration of all christs affaires doth immediately aime at spirituall and divine ends ( as the worship of god and the salvation of mens soules : ) and therefore no law nor meanes can be devised by the wisdome or wit of man that can be fit or able to reach such ends , but use must be made of such onely as the divine wisdome and holy will of god hath ordained . secondly , we beleeve the magistrates power in making lawes about church affaires , is not only thus limited and restrained by christ to matters which concerne the substance of gods worship and of church government , but also such as concerne outward order , as in rites and ceremonies for uniformities sake : for we finde not in the gospell that christ hath any where provided for the uniformity of churches , but onely for their unity . paul in matters of christian libertie commendeth the unity of their faith in the holy spirit , giving order that wee should not judge nor condemne one another in difference of judgement and practice of such things where men live to god on both sides , even though there were some errour on one side , rom. . to the . how much lesse in things indifferent , where there may be no etrour on either side . when the apostle directeth the church of corinth that all things be done decently and in order , he meant not to give power to church officers , or to civill magistrates to order what ever they should thinke meet for decencie and order ; but only to provide that all the ordinances of god be administred in the church decently without unnaturall or uncivill uncomelinesse ( as that of long haire , or womens prophe●ying , of the like ) and orderly without confusion or disturbance of edification , as the speaking of many at once in the church . thirdly , we doe neverthelesse willingly grant that magistrates upon due and diligent search what is the counsell and will of god in his word concerning the right ordering of the church , may and ought to publish and declare , establish and ratifie such lawes and ordinances as christ hath appointed in his word for the well ordering of church affaires , both for the gathering of the church , and the right administration of all the ordinances of god amongst them in such a manner as the lord hath appointed to edification . the law of artaxerxes , ezra . . was not usurpation over the churches liberty , but a royall and just confirmation of them : whatsoever is commanded by the god of heaven : for why should there be wrath against the king and his sonnes ? truth . deare peace . me thinkes i see before mine eyes a wall daubed up ( of which ezekiel speakes ) with untempered morter : here they restraine the magistrate from making lawes either concerning the substance or ceremony of religion , but such only as christ hath commanded , and those , say they , must publish and declare after the example of artaxerxes . i shall herein performe two things : first , examine this magistrates duty to publish , declare , &c. such laws and ordinances as christ hath appointed . secondly , i shall examine that proofe from artaxerxes , ezra . . in the first , me thinks i heare the voice of the people of israel , sam. . . make us a king that may rule over us after the manner of the nations , rejecting the lord ruling over them by his holy word in the mouth of his prophets , and sheltring themselves under an arme of flesh ; which arme of flesh god gave them in his anger , and cut off againe in his wrath , after he had persecuted david the figure of christ iesus who hath given his people the scepter and sword of his word and spirit , and refused a temporall crowne or weapons in the dispensation of his kingdome . where did the lord jesus or his messengers charge the civill magistrate , or direct christians to petition him , to publish , declare or establish by his arme of flesh and earthly weapons the religion and worship of christ jesus ? i finde the beast and false prophet ( whose rise and doctrine is not from heaven , but from the sea and earth ) dreadfull and terrible by a civill sword and dignitie , rev , . . i find the beast hath gotten the power and might of the kings of the earth , revel . . . but the lambes weapons are spiritually mighty , cor. . &c. his sword is two-edged comming out of his mouth , revel . . his preparations for war are white horses and white harnesse , which are contest by all to be of a spirituall nature , revel . . when that whore iesabel stabbed naboth with her pen , in stirring up the people to stone him as a blasphemer of god and the king , what a glorious maske or vaile of holines put she on ? proclaime a fast , set a day apart for humiliation ; and for confirmation , let all be ratified with the kings authoritie , name , and seale , kings , . . was not this recorded for all gods naboths , standing for their spirituall interests in heavenly things ( typed out by the typicall earth and ground of canaans land ) that they through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope , rom. ● . ? againe , i demand who shall here sit judge , whether the magistrate command any other substance or ceremonie but what is christs ? by their former conclusions , every soule must judge what the magistrate commandeth , and is not bound , even in indifferent things , to the magistrates law , further then his own soule , conscience and judgement ascends to the reason of it : here the magistrate must make lawes for that substance and ceremony which christ appointed : but yet he must not doe this with his eyes open , but blindfold and hoodwinkt ; for if he judge that to be the religion of christ , and such to be the order there in which their consciences judge otherwise , and assent not to , they professe they must submit only to christs lawes , and therefore they are not bound to obey him . o● what is this but to make use of the civill powers and governours of the world , as a guard about the spirituall bed of soulewhoredomes , in which the kings of the earth commit spirituall fornication with the great whore , rev. . ? as a guard while the inhabitants of the earth are drinking themselves drunke with the wine of her fornication . but oh what terrifying , what allurings are in iereinies curse and blessing ier. . cursed is the man that trusteth in man , that maketh flesh his arme ( too too common in spirituall matters ) and whose heart departeth from jehovah : he shall be as an heath in the wildernes ( even in the spirituall and mysticall wildernes ) and shall not see when comfort comes , but shall abide in drouth in the wildernesse in a barrenland , &c. chap. xcvi . peace . o what mysteries are these to flesh and blood ! how hard for flesh to forsake the arme thereof ! but passe on ( deare trutly ) to their proofe propounded , ezra . . wherein artaxerxes confirmed by law what ever was commanded by the god of heaven . truth . in this scripture i mind first the people of god captivated under the dominion and government of the kings of babel and persia. secondly , artaxerxes his favour to these captives , . of freedome to their consciences . . or bountie towards them . . of exempting of some of them from common charges . thirdly , punishments on offenders . fourthly , the ground that ●aries him on to all this . fifthly , ezra praising of god for putting this into the heart of the king. concerning the people of god the iewes , they were as lambes and sheep in the jawes of the lyon , the dearely beloved of his soule under the devouring tyrants of the world , both the babylonian and the persian , farre from their owne nation , and the government of their own anointed kings , the figures of the true king of the iewes the lord iesus christ. in this respect it is cleere , that the iewes were no more subject to the kings of babylon and persia in spirituall things , then the vessels of the sanctuary were subject to the king of babels use , dan. . concerning this king i consider , first his person , a gentile idolater , an oppressing tyrant , one of those devouring beasts , da● . . & . an hand of bloody conquest set the crown upon the lead of these monarchs ; and although in civill things they might challenge subjection , yet why should they now sit down in the throne of israel , and governe the people and church of god in spirituall things ? secondly , consider his acts of favour , and they will not amount to a positive command , that any of the iewes should goe up to build the temple , nor that any of them should practice his own worship , which he kept and judged the best for his owne soule and people . 't is true , he freely permits them , and exerciseth a bounteous assistance to them : all which argues no more , but that sometimes it pleaseth god to open the hearts of tyrants greatly to favour and further his people . such favour found nehemiah , and daniel , and others of gods people have and shall finde , so often as it pleaseth him to honour them that honour him , before the sonnes of men. peace . who sees not how little this scripture contributes to their tenent ? but why ( say some ) should this king confirme all with such severe punishments ? and why for all this● should ezra give thankes to god , if it were not imitable for after-times ? truth . the law of god which he confirmed , he knew not , and therefore neither was , nor could he be a judge in the case . and for his ground , what was it but the common terrours and convictions of an aff●ighted conscience ? in such sits and pangs , what have not pharaohs , sauls , ahabs , herods , agrippa's spoken ? and what wonderfull decrees have nabuchadnizzar , cyrus , darius , artaxerxes put forth concerning the god of israel , dan. . & . & ezra & &c. and yet as farre from being charged with ( as they were from being affected to ) the spirituall crown of governing the worship of god , and the conscience of his people . ●tis true , ezra most piously and justly gave thankes to god for putting such a thing into the heart of the king : but what makes this pattern for the laws of civil governours now under the gospell ? it suited well with that nationall state of gods church , that the gentile king should release them , permit them to returne to their own land , assist them with other favours , and enable them to execute punishments upon offenders according to their nationall state. but did god put such a thing as this into the heart of the king , viz. to restraine upon paine of death all the millions of men under his dominion from the idolatties of their severall and respective countries ? to constraine them all upon the like penaltie to conforme to the worship of the god of israel , to build him a temple , erect an altar , ordaine priests , offer sacrifice , observe the fasts and feasts of israel ? yea did god put it into the kings heart to send levites into all the parts of his dominion , compelling them to heare ; which is but a naturall thing ( as some unsoundly speake ) unto which all are bound to submit ? well however , ezra gives thankes to god for the kings , and so should all that feate god in all countries , if he would please to put it into the hearts of the kings , states and parliaments , to take off the yoakes of violence , and permit ( at least ) the consciences of their subjects , and especially such as in truth make conscience of their worships to the god of israel : and yet no cause for ezra then , or gods ezra's and israelites now , to acknowledge the care and charge of gods worship , church and ordinances , to lie upon the shoulders of artaxerxes , or any other civill prince or ruler . lastly for the confirmation or ratification which they suppose magistrates are bound to give to the lawes of christ , i answer , gods cause , christs truth , and the two-edged sword of his word , never stood in need of a temporall sword , or an humane witnes to confirme and ratifie them . if we receive the witnesse of an honest man , the witnesse of the most holy god is greater , . iohn . the result and summe of the whole matter is this : . it may please god sometimes to stir up the rulers of the earth to permit and tolerate , to favour and countenance gods people in their worships , though only out of some strong conviction of conscience or feare of wrath , &c. and yet themselves neither understand gods worship , nor leave their owne state , idolatry or country worship . for this gods people ought to give thankes unto god ; yea and all men from this example may learne not to charge upon the magistrates conscience ( besides the care of the civill peace , the bodies and goods of men ) the spirituall peace in the worship of god and soules of men : but hence are magistrates instructed favourably to permit their subjects in their worships , although themselves bee not perswaded to submit to them , as nebuchadnezzar , cyrus , darius and artaxerxes did . chap. xcvii . peace . the sixt question is this : how far the church is subject to their lawes ? all those ( say they ) who are members of the commonweale are bound to be subject to all the just and righteous laws thereof , and therefore ( membership in churches not cutting men off from the membership in commonweales ) they are bound to be subject , even every soule , rom. . . as christ himselfe and the apostles were in their places wherein they lived , and therefore to exempt the clergy ( as the papists do ) from civill subjection , and to say that generatio clerici , is corruptio subditi , is both sinfull and scandalous to the gospel of god ; and though all are equally subject , yet church members are more especially bound to yeeld subjection , and the most eminent most especially bound , not only because conscience doth more strongly binde , but also because their ill examples are more infectious to others , pernicious to the state , and provoke gods wrath to bring vengeance on the state. hence if the whole church or officers of the church shall sin against the state or any person by sedition , contempt of authority , heresie , blasphemy , oppression , slander , or shall withdraw any of their members from the service of the state without the consent thereof , their persons and estates are liable to civill punishments of magistrates according to their righteous and wholsome lawes , exod. . . levit. . . deut. . . & . . truth . what concernes this head in civill things , i gladly subscribe unto : what concernes heresie , blasphemy , &c. i have plentifully before spoken to , and shall here only say things : first , those scriptures produced concerne only the people of god in a church estate , and must have reference onely to the church of christ jesus , which ( as mr. cotton confesseth ) is not nationall but congregationall of so many as may meet in one place , cor. & therefore no civ●ll state can be the antitype and parallell ; to which purpose upon the question i shall at large shew the difference betweene that nationall church and state of israel , and all other states and nations in the world. secondly , if the rulers of the earth are bound to put to death all that worship other gods then the true god , or that blaspheme ( that is speake evill of in a lesser or higher degree ) that one true god ; it must unavoidably follow that ( the beloved for the fathers sake ) the jewes whose very religion blasphemeth christ in the highest degree , i say they are actually sonnes of death , and all to be immediately executed according to those quoted scriptures : and secondly , the townes , cities , nations and kingdomes of the world must generally be put to the sword , if they speedily renounce not their gods and worships , and so cease to blaspheme the true god by their idolatries : this bloody consequence cannot be avoided by any scripture rule , for if that rule be of force deut. . & . not to spare , or shew mercy upon person or city falling to idolatry , that bars out all favour or partiality ; and then what heapes upon heapes in the slaughter houses and shambles of civill warres must the world come to , as i have formerly noted , and that unnecessarily , it being not required by the lord jesus for his sake , and the magistrates power and weapons being essentially civill , and so not reaching to the impiety or ungodlinesse , but the incivility and unrighteousnesse of tongue or hand ? chap. xcviii . peace . deare truth , these are the poysoned daggers stabbing at my tender heart ! oh when shall the prince of peace appeare and reconcile the bloudy sons of men ? but let me now propose their head : viz. in what order may the magistrate execute punishment on a church or church-member that offendeth his lawes . first , grosse and publicke notorious sinnes which are against the light of conscience as heresie , &c. there the magistrate keeping him under safe ward should send the offendour first to the church to heale his conscience , still provided that the church be both able and willing thereunto : by which meanes the magistrate shall convince such an ones conscience that he seeketh his healing , rather then his hurt . the censure also against him shall proceed with more power and blessing , and none shall have cause to say that the magistrate persecutes men for their consciences , but that he justly punisheth such an one for sinning rather against his conscience , tit. . . secondly , in private offences how the magistrate may proceed , see chap. . it is not materiall whether the church or magistrates take it first in hand . only with this caution , that if the state take it first in hand , they are not to proceed to death or banishment , untill the church hath taken their course with him , to bring him to repentance , provided that the church be willing and ready thereunto . secondly , in such sinnes wherein men plead conscience , as heresie , &c. truth . here i have many just exceptions and considerations to present . first , they propose a distinction of some sinnes : some are against the light of conscience , &c. and they instance in heresie . ans. i have before discust this point of an heretick sinning against light of conscience : and i shall adde that howsoever they lay this down as an infallible conclusion that all heresie is against light of conscience ; yet ( to passe by the discussion of the nature of heresie , in which respect it may so be that even themselves may be found hereticall , yea and that in fundamentalls ) how doe all idolaters after light presented , and exhortations powerfully pressed , either turkes or pagans , jewes or antichristians , strongly even to the death hold fast ( or rather are held fast by ) their delusions . yea gods people themselves , being deluded and captivated are strongly confident even against some fundamentalls , especially of worship , and yet not against the light , but according to the light or eye of a deceived conscience . now all these consciences walke on confidently and constantly even to the suffering of death and torments , and are more strongly confirmed in their beleefe and conscience , because ●uch bloudy and cruell courses of persecution are used toward them . secondly , speakes not the scripture expresly of the jew , isa. . mat. . acts . that god hath given them the spirit of slumber , eyes that they should not see , & c● all which must be spoken of the very conscience , which he that hath the golden key of david can only shut and open , and all the picklocks or● swords in all the smiths shops in the world can neither by force or fraud prevent his time . is it not said of antichristians , ● thessal . . that god hath sent them strong delusions , so strong and efficacious , that they beleeve a lie and that so confidently , and some so conscientiously , that death it selfe cannot part betweene the delusion and their conscience . againe , the magistrate ( say they ) keeping him in safe ward : that is , the heretick , the blasphemer , idolater , &c. peace . i here aske all men that love even the civill peace , where the lord jesus hath spoken a tittle of a prison or safe ward to this purpose . truth . we find indeed a prison threatned by god to his irreconciled enemies , neglecting to account with him , matth. . we finde a prison into which persecuters cast the saints : so iohn , so paul , and the apostles , matth. . . &c. were cast , and the great commander of , and caster into prison , is the devill , revel . . wee finde a spirituall prison indeed , a prison for spirits , p. ● . . . the spirits formerly rebellious against christ jesus speaking by noah unto them , now kept in safe ward against the judgement of the great day . in excommunication , a soule obstinate in sinne is delivered to sathan his jaylour , and he keeps him in safe ward , untill it pleaseth god to release him . there is a prison for the devill himselfe a thousand yeares , rev. . and a lake of eternall fire and brimstone , into which the beast and false prophet , and all not written in the lambes booke , and the devill that deceived them , shall eternally be there secured and tormented . but neither amongst these , nor in any other passage of the new testament , doe we finde a prison appointed by christ jesus for the heretick , blasphemer , idolater , &c. being not otherwise guilty against the civill state. 't is true , antichrist ( by the helpe of civill powers ) hath his prisons , to keep christ iesus and his members fast : such prisons may well be called the bishops prisons , the popes , the devils prisons : these inquisition houses have ever been more terrible then the magistrates . at first , persecuting bishops borrowed prisons of the civill magistrate ( as now their successors doe still in the world ) but afterward they wr●ng the keyes out of the magistrates hands , and hung them at their own girdles , and would have prisons of their owne , as doubtlesse will that generation still doe , if god prevent them not . chap. xcix . peace . againe ( say they ) the magistrate should send him first to the church to heale his conscience . truth . is not this as the prophet speakes , like mother , like daughter ? so the mother of whoredomes the church of rome teacheth and practiseth with all her hereticks : first let the holy church convince them , and then deliver them to the secular power to receive the punishment of hereticks . peace . me thinks also they approach neere that popish tenent , ex opere operato : for their exhortations and admonitions must necessarily be so operative and prevalent , that if the heretick repent not , he now sins against his conscience : not remembring that peradventure , tim. . if peradventure , god will give them repentance : and how strong delusions are , and believing of lies , and how hard it is to be undeceived , especially in spirituals ? truth . and as it may so prove , when an heretick indeed is brought to this colledge of physitians to have his conscience healed , and one heretick is to cure another : so also when any of christs witnesses ( supposed hereticks ) are brought before them , how doth the lord iesus suffer whippings and stabs , when his name , and truths , and witnesses , and ordinances are all prophaned and blasphemed ? besides , suppose a man to be an heretick , and yet suppose him brought as the magistrates prisoner , though to a true church , to heale his conscience : what promise of presence and blessing hath the lord iesus made to his church and spouse in such a way ? and how common is it for hereticks either to be desperately hardned by such cruell courses ( yet pretending soule-healing ) or else through feare and terrour to practice grosse hypocrisie even against their consciences ? so that these chir●rgions and physitians pretending to heale consciences , by such a course wound them deeper , and declare themselves chir●rgions and physitians of no value . peace . but what thinke you of the proviso added to their proposition , viz. provided , the church bee able and willing ? truth . doubtles this proviso derogates not a little from the nature of the spouse of christ. for she , like that gracious woman , prov. . . openeth her mouth with wisedome , and in her tongue is the law of grace : she is the pillar and ground of truth , . tim. . the golden candlestick from whence true light shineth : the angels or ministers thereof able to try false apostles ( rev. . ) and convince the gainsayers , tit. . againe ( according to their principles of suppressing persons and churches falsely worshipping ) how can they permit such a blind and dead church not able and willing to heale a wounded conscience ? peace . what should be the reason of this their expression ? truth . doubtles their consciences tell them how few of those churches ( which they yet acknowledge churches ) are able and willing to hold forth christ iesus the sun of righteousnes , healing with his wings the doubting and afflicted conscience . lastly , their conscience tells them , that a servant of christ iesus may possibly be sent as an heretick to be healed by a false church , which church will never be willing to deale with him , or never be able to convince him . peace . yea , but they say , by such a course the magistrate shall convince such an ones conscience ; that hee seekes his good , &c. truth . if a man thus bound be sent to a church to be healed in his conscience , either he is an heretick , or he is not . admit he be : yet he disputes in feare , as the poor theefe : the mouse disputes with a terrible persecuting cat : who while she seemes to play and gently tosse , yet the conclusion is a proud insulting and devouring crueltie . if no heretick but an innocent and faithfull witnes of any truth of jesus ; disputes he not as a lambe in the lyons paw , being sure in the end to be torne in pieces ? peace . they adde : the censure this way proceeds with more power and blessing . truth . all power and blessing is from that blessed son of god , unto whom all power is given from the father , in heaven and earth . he hath promised his presence with his messengers , preaching and baptizing to the worlds end , ratifying in heaven what they blinde or loose on earth . but let any man shew me such a commission , instruction and promise given by the son of god to civill powers in these spirituall affaires of his christian kingdome and worship ? peace . lastly they conclude , this course of first sending the heretick to be healed by the church , takes away all excuse ; for none can say that he is persecuted for his conscience , but for sinning against his conscience . truth . iesabel placing poore naboth before the elders as a blasphemer of god and the king , and sanctifying the plotted and intended murther with a day of humiliation , may seeme to take away all excuse , and to conclude the blasphemer worthy to be stoned : but iehovah the god of recompences ( ●er . . ) when he makes inquisition for blood , will find both iesabel and ahab guilty , and make the dogs a feast with the flesh of iesabel , and leave not to ahab a man to pisse against the wall ; for ( as paul in his owne plea ) there was nothing committed worthy of death : and against thee , o king , saith daniel , i have not sinned ( dan. . ) in any civill fact against the state. chap. c. peace . their eighth question is this : viz. what power magistrates have about the gathering of churches ? first , the magistrate hath power , and it is his duty to incourage and countenance such persons , as voluntarily joyn themselves in holy covenant , both by his presence ( if it may be ) and promise of protection , they accepting the right hand of fellowship from other neighbour churches . secondly , he hath power ●o forbid all idolatrous and corrupt assemblies , who offer to put themselves under their patronage , and shall attempt to joyne themselves into a church-estate , and if they shall not hearken , to force them therefrom by the power of the sword , psal. . . for our tolerating many religions in a state in severall churches , beside the provoking of god , may in time not only corrupt , leaven , divide , and so destroy the peace of the churches , but also dissolve the continuity of the state , especially ours whose wals are made of the stones of the churches : it being also contrary to the end of our planting in this part of the world , which was not only to enjoy the pure ordinances , but to enjoy them all in purity . thirdly , he hath power to compell all men within his grant , to heare the word , for hearing the word of god is a duty which the light of nature leadeth even heathens to : the ninivites heard ionah , though a stranger , and unknowne unto them , to be an extraordinary prophet , ionah . and eglon the king of moab hearing that ehud had a message from god , he rose out of his seat for more reverent attention , iudg. . . yet he hath no power to compell all men to become members of churches , because he hath not power to make them fit members for the church , which is not wrought by the power of the sword , but by the power of the word : nor may he force the churches to accept of any for members , but those whom the churches themselves can freely approve of . truth . to the first branch of this head , i answer , that the magistrate should encourage and countenance the church , yea and protect the persons of the church from violence , disturbance , &c. it being truly noble and glorious , by how much the spouse and queene of the lord iesus transcends the ladies , queens , and empresses of the world , in glory , beauty , chastity and innocency . 't is true , all magistrates in the world do this : viz. incourage and protect that church or assembly of worshippers , which they judge to be true and approve of ; but not permitting other consciences then their owne : it hath come to passe in all ages , and yet doubtlesse will , that the lord iesus and his queene are driven and persecuted out of the world. to the second , that the magistrate ought to suppresse all churches which he judgeth false , he quoteth psal. . . betimes i will cut off the wicked of the land , that i may cut off all evill doers from the city of jehovah : unto which , he addeth foure reasons . peace . deare truth , first , a word to that scripture , so often quoted , and so much boasted of . truth . concerning that holy land of canaan , concerning the city of iehovah , ierusalem , out of which king david here resolves to cut off all the wicked and evill doers . i shall speake more largely on the head or question in the differences between that and all other lands . at present i answer , there is no holy land or city of the lord , no king of sion , &c. but the church of iesus christ , and the king thereof , according to pet. . . ye are a holy nation , and ierusalem is the holy people of god in the true profession of christianity , heb. . gal. . & rev. . out of which the lord iesus by his holy ordinances , in such a government , and by such governours as he hath appointed , he cuts off every wicked person and evill doer . if christ iesus had intended any difference of plate , cities or countries , doubtlesse ierusalem and samaria had been thought of , or the cities of asia , wherein the christian religion was so gloriously planted . but the lord iesus disclaimes ierusalem and samaria forth having any respect of holinesse more then other cities , iohn . and the spirit of god evidently testineth that the churches were in the cities and countries , not that the whole cities or countries were gods holy land , and cities out of which all false worshippers and wicked persons were to be cut , rev. . & . the divells throne was in the city of pergamus , in respect of the state and persecution of it , and yet there was also the throne of the lord iesus set up in his church of worshippers in pergamus , out of which the balaamites , and nicholaitans and every false worshipper was to be cast , though not out of the city of pergamus , for then pergamus must have beene throwne out of pergamus , and the world out of the world. chap. ci. peace . oh that my head were a fountaine , and mine eyes river● of teares to lament my children , the children of peace and light , thus darkning that , and other lightsome scriptures with such darke and direfull clouds of bloud . truth . sweet peace , thy teares are seasonable and precious , and botled up in the heavens : but let me adde a second consideration from that scripture : if that scripture may now literally be applied to nations and cities in a parallel to canaan and ierusalem since the gospel , and this psal. . be literally to be applied to cities , townes , and countries in europe and america , not only such as assay to joyne themselves ( as they here speake ) in a corrupt church estate , but such as know no church estate , nor god , nor christ , yea every wicked person and evill doer , must be hanged or stoned , &c. as it was in israel , and if so , how many thousands and millions of men and women in the severall kingdomes and governments of the world must be cut off from their lands , and destroyed from their cities , as this scripture speakes ? thirdly , since those persons in the new english plantations accounted unfit for church estate , yet remaine all members of the church of england , from which new england dares not separate , no not in their sacraments , ( as some of the independents have published ) what riddle or mysterie , or rather fallacie of sathan is this ? peace . it will not be offence to charity to make conjecture : first , herein new england churches secretly call their mother whore , not daring in america to joyne with their owne mothers children , though unexcommunicate , no nor permit them to worship god after their consciences , and as their mother hath taught them this secretly and silently , they have a minde to doe , which publickly they would seem to disclaime , and professe against . secondly , if such members of old england should be suffered to enjoy their consciences in new , ( however it is pretended they would profane ordinances for which they are unfit ( as true it is in that naturall persons are not fit for spirituall worship ) yet this appears not to be the bottome , for in old england the new english joyne with old in the ministrations of the word , prayer , singing , contribution , maintenance of the ministrie , &c. ) if i say , they should set up churches after their conscience , the greatnesse and multitudes of their owne assemblies would decay , and with all the contributions and maintenance of their ministers , unto which all or most have beene forced . truth . deare peace , these are more then conjectures , thousands now espie , and all that love the purity of the worship of the living god should lament such halting : i shall adde this , not only doe they partially neglect to cut off the wicked of the land , but such as themselves esteemed beloved and goldy have they driven forth , and keep out others which would come unto them , eminently godly by their owne confession , because differing in conscience and worship from them , and consequently not to be suffered in their holy land of canaan . but having examined that scripture alledged , let us now weigh their reasons . first ( say they ) the not cutting off by the sword , but tolerating many religions in a state would provoke god : unto which i answer , first ( and here being no scripture produced to these reasons , shall the sooner answer ) that no proofe can be made from the institutions of the lord iesus that all religions but one are to be cut off by the civill sword ; that nationall church in that typicall land of canaan being abolished , and the christian commonweale or church instituted . secondly , i affirme that the cutting off by the sword other consciences and religions is ( contrarily ) most provoking unto god , expressely against his will concerning the tares matth. . as i have before proved ; as also the bloudy mother of all those monstrous mischiefes ( where such cutting off is used ) both to the soules and bodies of men . thirdly , let conscience and experience speake how in the not cutting off their many religions , it hath pleased god not only not to be provoked , but to prosper the state of the united provinces our next neighbours , and that to admiration . peace . the second reason is , such tolerating would leaven , divide and destroy the peace of the churches . truth . this must also be denied upon so many former scriptures & reasons produced , proving the power of the lord iesus , and the sufficiencie of his spirituall power in his church , for the purging forth and conquering of the least evill , yea and for the bringing every thought in subjection unto christ iesu , cor. . i adde , they have not produced one scripture , nor can , to prove that the permitting to leaven of false doctrine in the world or civill state , will leaven the churches : only we finde that the permission of leaven in persons , doctrines or practices in the church , that indeed will corrupt and spread , . cor. . & gal. . but this reason should never have been alledged , were not the particular churches in new england , but as so many implicite parish churches in one implicite national church . peace . their third reason is , it will dissolve the continuity of the state , especially theirs , where the walls are made of the stones of the churches . truth . i answer briefly to this bare affirmation thus , that the true church is a wall spirituall and mysticall , cant. . . then consequently a false church or company is a false or pretended wall , and none of christs . the civill state , power and government is a civill wall , &c. and lastly , the walls of earth or stone about a city are the naturall or artificiall wall or defence of it . now in consideration of these foure wals i desire it may be proved from the scripture of truth , how the false spirituall wall or company of false worshippers suffred in a city can be able to destroy the true christian wall or company of beleevers . againe , how this false spirituall wall or false church permitted , can destroy the civill wall , the state and government of the city and citizens , any more then it can destroy the naturall or artificiall wall of earth or stone . spirituall may destroy spirituall , if a stronger and victorious , but spirituall cannot reach to artificiall or civill . peace . yea but they feare the false spirituall wall may destroy their civill , because it is made of the stones of churches . truth . if this have reference to that practice amongst them , viz. that none but members of churches enjoy civill freedome amongst them ( ordinarily ) in imitation of that nationall church and state of the iewes , then i answer , they that follow moses church constitution ) which the new english by such a practice implicitely doe ) must cease to pretend to the lord iesus christ and his institutions . secondly , we shall finde lawfull civill state both before and since christ iesus , in which we finde not any tidings of the true god our christ. lastly , their civill new english state framed out of their churches may yet stand , subsist and flourish , although they did ( as by the word of the lord they ought ) permit either iewes or turkes or antichristians to live amongst them subject unto their civill government . chap. cii . peace . one branch more , viz. the third remaines of this head , and it concerns the hearing of the word , unto which ( say they ) all men are to be compelled , because hearing of the word is a duty which even nature leadeth heathens to : for this they quote the practice of the ninevites hea●ing ionah , and eglo● ( king of moab ) his rising up to ehuds pretended message from god , iudg . truth . i must deny that position : for light of nature leadeth men to heare that onely which nature conceiveth to be good for it , and therefore not to heare a messenger , minister or preacher , whom conscience perswades is a false messenger or deceiver , and comes to deceive my soule , as millions of men and women in their severall respective religions and consciences are so perswaded , conceiving their owne to be true . secondly , as concerning the instances , ionah did not compell the ninevites to heare that message which he brought unto them . besides the matter of compulsion to a constant worship of the world in church estate ( which is the question ) comes not neare ionahs case . nor did christ iesus or any of his embassadours so practice : but if persons refused to heare the command of the lord iesus to his messengers was onely to depart from them , shaking off the dust of their feet with a denunciation of gods wrath against them , math. . act. . concerning eglon his rising up : first , eh●d compelled not that king either to heare or reverence , and all that can bee imitable in eglon , is a voluntary and willing reverence which persons ought to expresse to what they are perswaded comes from god. but how doe both these instances mightily convince and condemne themselves , who not onely professe to turne away from , but also persecute or hunt all such as shall dare to professe a ministry or church estate differing from their owne , though for personall godlinesse and excellency of gifts reverenced by themselves . thirdly , to the point of compulsion : it hath pleased the lord iesus to appoint a two fold ministry of his word . first , for unbeleevers and their conversion , according to math. . . marc. , . and the constant practice of the apostles in the first preaching of the gospel . secondly , a ministry of feeding and nourishing up such as are converted and brought into church estate , according to ephes. . &c. now to neither of these doe we finde any compulsion appointed by the lord iesus , or practised by any of his . the compulsion preached and practised in new england , is not to the hearing of that ministry sent forth to convert unbeleevers , and to constitute churches : for such a ministry they practise not : but to the hearing of the word of edification , exhortation , consolation , dispenced onely in the churches of worshippers : i apply , when paul came first to corinth to preach christ iesus , by their rule the magistrates of corinth ought by the sword to have compelled all the people of corinth to heare paul. secondly , after a church of christ was gathered ( by their rule ) the magistrates of corinth ought to have compelled the people still ( even those who had refused his doctrine , for the few onely of the church embraced it ) to have heard the word still , and to have kept one day in seven to the christians god , and to have come to the christians church all their dayes . and what is this but a setled formality of religion and worship , unto which a people are brought by the power of the sword ? and however they affirme that persons are not to be compelled to be members of churches , nor the church compelled to receive any : yet if persons be compelled to forsake their religion which their hearts cleave to , and to come to church , to the worship of the word , prayers , psalmes , and contributions , and this all their dayes : i aske whether this be not this peoples religion , unto which submitting , they shall be quiet all their dayes , without the inforcing them to the practice of any other religion ? and if this bee not so , then i aske , will it not inevitably follow , that they ( not onely permit , but ) enforce people to bee of no religion at all , all their dayes ? this toleration of religion , or rather irreligious compulsion , is above all tolerations monstrous , to wit , to compell men to bee of no religion all their dayes . i desire all men and these worthy authors of this modell , to lay their hands upon their heart , and to consider whether this compulsion of men to heare the word , ( as they say ) whether it carries men , to wit , to be of no religion all their dayes , worse then the very indians , who dare not live without religion according as they are perswaded . lastly , i adde , from the ordinance of the lord iesus , and practice of the apostles ( acts . . ) where the word and prayer is joyned with the exercise of their fellowship , and breaking of bread ; in which exercises the church continued constantly : that it is apparent that a civill state may as lawfully compell men by the civill sword to the breaking of bread , or lords supper , as to the word or prayer , or fellowship . for first , they are all of the same nature , ordinances in the church ( i speake of the feeding ministrie in the church , unto which persons are compell'd ) and church worship . secondly , every conscience in the world is fearfull , at least shie of the priests and ministers of other gods and worships , and of holding spirituall fellowship in any of their services . which is the case of many a soule , viz. to question the ministers themselves , as well as the supper it selfe . chap. ciii . peace . deare truth , this pressing of men to the spirituall battels of christ jesus , is the cause why ( as it is commonly with prest souldiers ) that so many thousands flie in the day of battell . but i present you with the . question , viz. what power the magistrate hath in providing of church-officers ? first ( say they ) the election of church officers being the proper act of the church , therefore the magistrate hath no power ( either as prince or patron ) to assume such power unto himselfe . when christ sends to preach by his supreme power , the magistrate may send forth by his power subordinate , to gather churches , and may force people to heare them , but not invest them with office amongst them . secondly , the maintenance of church-officers being to arise from all those who are ordinarily taught thereby ( gal. . . ) hence it is the dutie of the civill magistrate to contend with the people , as nehemiah did , chap. . ver . . . who doe neglect and forsake the due maintenance of the church of god , and to command them to give such portions for the maintenance of church officers , as the gospell commandeth to be offered to them freely and bountifully , . cor. . , , . according as hezekiah commanded the people to give to the priests and levites the portions appointed by the law , that they might be incouraged in the law of the lord , chron. . . thirdly , the furnishing the church with set officers , depending much upon erecting and maintenance of schooles , and good education of youth ; and it lying chiefly in the hand of the magistrate to provide for the furthering thereof , they may therefore and should so farre provide for the churches , as to erect schooles , take care for fit governours and tutours , and commend it to all the churches , if they see it meet , that in all the churches within the jurisdiction once in a yeare , and if it may be , the sabbath before the generall court of election , there be a free-will offering of all people for the maintenance of such schooles : and the monies of every towne so given , to be brought on the day of election to the treasurie of the colledge , and the monies to be disposed by such who are so chosen for the disposing thereof . truth . in the choice of officers , it is very obscure what they mean by this supreme power of christ jesus sending to preach . we know the commission of the lord jesus to his first messengers to goe into all nations to preach and gather churches , and they were immediately sent forth by him : but mr. cotton elswhere boldeth , that there is now extant no immediate ministry from christ , but mediate , that is , from the church . let us first see how they agree with themselves , and secondly how they agree with the magistrate in this busines . first , if they hold a sending forth to preach by christs supreme power , according to math. . mark . rom. . they must necessarily grant a time , when the church is not , but is to be constituted out of the nations and peoples now converted by this preaching : whence according to the course of scripture , the nature of the worke , and their own grant in this place , it is apparent that there is a ministery before the church , gathering and espousing the church to christ : and therefore their other tenent must needs be too light , viz. that there is no ministry but that which is mediate from the church . peace . blessed truth , this doctrine of a ministry before the church , is harsh and deep , yet most true , most sweet . yet you know their ground , that two or three godly persons may joyne themselves together , become a church , make officers , send them forth to preach , to convert , baptize , and gather new churches . truth . i answer , first we find not in the first institution and pasterne , that ever any such two , or three , or more , did gather and constitute themselves a church of christ , without a ministrie sent from god to invite and call them by the word , and to receive them unto fellowship with god upon the receiving of that word and message : and therefore it may very well be quaeried how without such a ministry two or three become a church ? and how the power of christ is conveyed unto them ; who espoused this people unto iesus christ , as the church at corinth was espoused by paul , cor. . ? if it be said themselves , or if it be said the scriptures , let one instance be produced in the first patternes and practices of such a practice . it hath been generally confest , that there is no comming to the mariage feast without a messenger inviting , sent from god to the soules of men , matth. . luc. . rom. . we finde when the thessalonians turned to god from their idolls to serve the living and true god , thessal . . . it pleased god to bring a word of power unto them by the mouth of paul in the same place . peace . you know ( deare truth ) it is a common plea , that gods people now are converted already , and therefore may congregate themselves , &c. truth . two things must here be cleered : first , doth their conversion amount to externall turning from idolls , i thess. . . beside their internall repentance , faith , love , &c. secondly , who wrought this conversion , who begot these children ? ( for though the corinthians might have ten thousand teachers , yet paul had begotten them by the word . 't is true ( as mr. cotton himselfe elsewhere acknowledgeth ) god sendeth many preachers in the way of his providence ( even in babel mysticall ) though not according to his ordinance and institution : so even in the wildernesse ( rev. . ) god provideth for the sustentation of the woman , rev. . by which provision even in the most popish times and places , yea and by most false and popish callings ( now in this lightsome age confest so to be ) god hath done great things to the personall conversion , consolation , and salvation of his people . but as there seems yet to be desired such constitution of the christian church , as the first institution and patterne calls for : so also such a calling and converting of gods people from antichristian idols to the christian worship : and therefore such a ministry ( according to the first patterne ) sent from christ iesus to renew and restore the worship and ordinances of god in christ. lastly , if it should be granted that without a ministry sent from christ to gather churches , that gods , people in this country may be called , converted from antichristian idolls , to the true worship of god in the true church estate and ordinances , will it not follow that in all other countries of the world gods elect must or may be so converted from their severall respective false worships and idolatries , and brought into the true christian church estate without such a ministry sent unto them ? or are there two wayes appointed by the lord iesus , one for this country , and another for the rest of the world ? or lastly , if two or three more ( without a ministry ) shall arise up , become a church , make ministers , &c. i ask whether those two or three , or more must not be accounted immediately and extraordinarily stirred up by god , and whether this be that supreme power of christ iesus ( which they speake of ) sending forth two or three private persons to make a church and ministers , without a true ministry of christ iesus first sent unto themselves ? is this that commission ( which all ministers pretend unto ) mat. . . &c. first , in the hands of two or three private persons becomming a church , without a mediat call from which church ( say they ) there can be no true ministry , and yet also confesse that christ sendeth forth to preach by his supreme power ; and the magistrate by his power subordinate to gather churches ? chap. civ . peace . you have taken great paines to shew the irreconciliablenesse of those their two assertions , viz. first , there is now no ministry ( as they say ) but what is mediat from the church , and yet secondly , christ jesus sends preachers forth by his supreme power to gather the church : i now wait to heare , how , as they say , the magistrate may send forth by his power subordinate to gather churches , enforcing the people to heare , &c. truth . if there be a ministry sent forth by christs supreme power ; and a ministry sent forth by the magistrates subordinate power to gather churches ; i aske what is the difference between these two ? is there any gathering of churches but by that commission , mat. . teach and baptize ? and is the civill magistrate intrusted with a power from christ as his deputy to give this commission , and so to send out ministers to preach and baptize ? as there is nothing in the testament of christ concerning such a delegation or assignment of such power of christ to the civill magistrate : so i also ask , since in every free state civill magistrates have no more power but what the people 's of those states , lands and countries betrust them with , whether or no ( by this meanes ) it must not follow that christ iesus hath left with the peoples and nations of the world , his spirituall kingly power to grant commissions and send out ministers to themselves , to preach , convert and baptize themselves ? how inevitably this followes upon their conclusion of power in magistrates to send , &c. and what unchristian and unreasonable consequences must flow from hence , let all consider in the feare of god. iehosaphats sending forth the levites to teach in iudah , &c. as they alledge it not ; so elsewhere it shall more fully appeare to be a type and figure of christ iesus the only king of his church providing for the feeding of his church and people by his true christian priests and levites , viz. the ministry which in the gospel he hath appointed . chap. cv . peace . vve have examined the ministry , be pleased ( deare truth ) to speake to the second branch of this head , viz. the maintenance of it : they affirme that the magistrate may force out the ministers maintenance from all that are taught by them , and that after the patterne of israel , and the argument from cor. . gal. . . truth . this theame , viz. concerning the maintenance of the priests and ministers of worship , is indeed the apple of the eye , the dianah of the dianah , &c. yet all that love christ jesus in sincerity , and soules in and from him will readily professe to abhorre filthy lucre ( tit. . ) and the wages of balaam ( both more common and frequent then easily is discernable . ) to that scripture gal. . . let him that is taught in the word make him that teacheth partaker of all his goods : i answer , that teaching was of persons converted , beleevers entred into the schoole and family of christ the church , which church being rightly gathered , is also rightly invested with the power of the lord iesus , to force every soule therein by spirituall weapons and penalties to doe its duty . but this forcing of the magistrate is intended and practised to all sorts of persons without as well as within the church , unconverted , naturall and dead in sinne , as well as those that live , and feeding enjoy the benefit of spirituall food . now for those sorts of persons to whom christ iesus sends his word out of church estate , iewes or gentiles , ( according to the parable of math. . high-way hearers , stony ground and thorny ground hearers ) wee never finde title of any maintenance to bee expected , least of all to bee forced and exacted from them . by civill power they cannot be forced , for it is no civill payment or businesse , no matter of caesar , but concerning god : nor by spirituall power , which hath nothing to doe with those which are without , . cor. . it is reasonable to expect and demand of such as live within the state a civill maintenance of their civill officers , and to force it where it is denyed . it is reasonable for a schoole-master to demand his recompence for his labour in his schoole : but it is not reasonable to expect or force it from stranges , enemies , rebels to that city , from such as come not within , or else would not bee received into the schoole . what is the church of christ iesus , but the city , the school● , and family of christ ? the officers of this city , schoole , family , may reasonably expect maintenance from such they minister unto , but not from strangers , enemies , &c. peace . it is most true that sinne goes in a linke , for that tenent that all the men of the world may bee compelled to heare christ preach ( and enjoy the labours of the teacher as well as the church it selfe ) forceth on another also as evill , viz. that they should also be compelled to pay , as being most equall and reasonable to pay for their conversion . truth . some use to urge that text of luc. . compell them to come in . compell them to masse ( say the papists : ) compell them to church and common prayer , say the protestants : compell them to the meeting , say the new english. in all these compulsions they disagree amongst themselves : but in this , viz. compell them to pay , in this they all agree . there is a double violence which both errour and falshood use to the soules of men . first , morall and perswasive , such was the perswasion first used to ioseph by his mistris : such was the perswasions of tamar from ammon : such was the compelling of the young man by the harlot ; prov. . shee caught him by her much faire speech and kisses . and thus is the whole world compelled to the worship of the golden image , dan. . the second compulsion is civill , such as iosephs mistris began to practise upon ioseph to attaine her whorish desires . such as ammon practised on tamar to satisfie his brutish lust . and such was nabuchadnezzars second compulsion , his fiery furnace , dan. . and mysticall nabuchadnezzars killing all that receive not his marke , rev. . the first sort of these violences , to wit , by powerfull argument and perswasion , the ministers of the gospel also use . hence all those powerfull perswasions of wisedomes maidens , pro. . hence ( saith paul ) knowing the terrour of the lord , we perswade men , cor. . and pull some out of the fire , saith iud● : such must that compulsion be , luc. . viz. the powerfull perswasions of the word , being that two-edged sword comming out of the mouth of christ iesus in his true ministers sent forth to invite poore sinners to partake of the feast of the lambe of god. the civill ministers of the commonweale cannot be sent upon this businesse with their civill weapons and compulsions , but the spirituall minister of the gospel with his spirituall sword of christs mouth , a sword with two edges . but more particularly the contributions of christs kingdome are all holy and spirituall , though consisting of materiall earthly substance , ( as is water in baptisme , bread and wine in the supper ) and joyned with prayer and the lords supper , act. . . hence as prayer is called gods sacrifice , so are the contributions and mutuall supplyes of the saints , sacrifices , phil. . hence also as it is impossible for naturall men to bee capable of gods worship , and to feed , be nourished and edified by any spirituall ordinance , no more then a dead childe can sucke the breast , or a dead man feast : so also is it as impossible for a dead man yet lodged in the grave of nature to contribute spiritually ( i meane according to scriptures rule ) as for a dead man to pay a reckoning . i question not but naturall men may for the outward act preach , pray , contribute , &c. but neither are they worshippers suitable to him who is a spirit ( iohn . ) nor can they ( least of all ) bee forced to worship or the maintenance of it , without a guilt of their hypocrisie . peace . they will say , what is to be done for their soules ? truth . the apostles ( whom wee professe to imitate ) preached the word of the lord to unbeleevers , without mingling in worship with them , and such preachers and preaching such as pretend to be the true ministry of christ , ought to be and practise : not forcing them all their dayes to come to church and pay their duties , either so confessing that this is their religion unto which they are forced : or else that ( as before ) they are forced to be of no religion all their dayes . the way to subdue rebels is not by correspondence and communion with them , by forcing them to keepe the city watches , and pay sessements , &c. which all may be practised ( upon compulsion ) treacherously , the first work with such is powerfully to subdue their judgments and wills , to lay downe their weapons , and yeeld willing subjection : then come they orderly into the city , and so to citie priviledges . chap. cvi. peace . please you now ( deare truth ) to discusse the scriptures from the old testament , nehem . and chron. . truth . god gave unto that nationall church of the jewes that excellent land of canaan , and therein houses furnished , orchards , gardens vineyards , olive yards , fields , wells , &c. they might well in this settled abundance , and the promised continuation and increase of it afford a large temporall supply to their priests and levites , even to the tenth of all they did possesse . gods people are now in the gospel brought into a spirituall land of canaan , flowing with spirituall milk and honey , and they abound with spirituall and heavenly comforts , though in a poore and persecuted condition , therefore an inforced setled maintenance is not sutable to the gospel , as it was to the ministry of priests and levites in the law. secondly , in the change of the church estate , there was also a change of the priesthood and of the law , heb. . nor did the lord iesus appoint that in his church , and for the maintenance of his ministrie , the civill sword of the magistrate , but that the spirituall sword of the ministrie should alone compell . . therefore the compulsion used under hezekiah and nehemiah , was by the civill and corporall sword , a type ( in that typicall state ) not of another materiall and corporall , but of an heavenly and spirituall , even the sword of the spirit , with which christ fighteth , revel . . which is exceeding sharpe , entring in between the soule and spirit , heb. . and bringing every thought into captivitie to the obedience of christ iesus : he that submits not at the shaking of this sword , is cut off by it ; and he that despiseth this sword , all the power in the world cannot make him a true worshipper , or by his purse a mainteiner of gods worship . lastly , if any man professing to be a minister of christ iesus , shall bring men before the magistrate ( as the practice hath been , both in old and new england ) for not paying him his wages or his due : i aske ( if the voluntarie consent of the party hath not obliged him ) how can either the officers of the parish , church , or of the civill state compell this or that man to pay so much ( more or lesse ) to maintaine such a worship or ministrie ? i ask further , if the determining what is each mans due to pay , why may they not determine the tenth and more , as some desired ( others opposing ) in new england , and force men not only to maintenance , but to a iewish maintenance . peace . yea but ( say they ) is not the labourer worthy of his hire ? truth . yes , from them that hire him , from the church , to whom he laboureth or ministreth , not from the civill state : no more then the minister of the civill state is worthy of his hire from the church , but from the civill state , ( in which i grant the persons in the church ought to be assistant in their civill respects . ) peace . what maintenance ( say they ) shall the ministrie of the gospell have ? truth . we finde two wayes of maintenance for the ministrie of the gospell , proposed for our direction in the new testament . first , the free and willing contribution of the saints , according to cor. . luc. . . &c. upon which both the lord jesus , and his ministers lived . secondly , the diligent worke and labour of their owne hands , as paul tells the thessalonians , and that in two cases : . either in the inabilities and necessities of the church . . or for the greater advantage of christs truth ; as when paul saw it would more advantage the name of christ , he denies himselfe , and falls to worke amongst the corinthians and thessalonians . let none call these cases extraordinary : for if persecution be the portion of christs sheep , and the busines or worke of christ must be dearer to us then our right eyes or lives , such as will follow paul , and follow the lord iesus , must not thinke much at , but rejoyce in poverties , necessities , hunger , cold , nakednesse , &c. the stewards of christ iesus must be like their lord , and abhorre to steale as the evill steward , pretending that the shamed to beg , but peremptorily , dig he could not . chap. cvii . peace . one and the last branch ( deare truth ) remaines concerning schooles . the churches ( say they ) much depend upon the schooles , and the schooles upon the magistrates . truth . i honour schooles for tongues and arts : but the institution of europes universities , devoting persons ( as is said ) for scholars , in a monasticall way , forbidding mariage and labour to , i hold as far from the mind of iesus christ , as it is from propagating his name and worship . we count the universities the fountaines , the seminaries or seed-plots of all pietie : but have not those fountaines ever sent what streames the times have liked ? and ever changed their taste and colour to the princes eye and palate ? for any depending of the church of christ upon such schooles , i finde not a little in the testament of christ iesus . i finde the church of christ frequently compared to a schoole : all beleevers are his disciples or scholars , yea women also , acts . . there was a certaine disciple or scholar called dorcas . have not the universities sacrilegiously stole this blessed name of christs scholars from his people ? is not the very scripture language it selfe become absurd , to wit , to call gods people , especially women ( as dorcas ) scholars ? peace . some will object , how shall the scriptures be brought to ●ight from out of popish darknesse , except these schooles of prophets convey them to us ? truth . i know no schooles of prophets in the new testament , but the particular congregation of christ iesus , cor. . and i question whether any thing but sinne stopt and dried up the current of the spirit in those rare gifts of tongues to gods sons & daughters , serving so admirably both for the understanding of the originall scriptures , and also for the propagating of the name of christ. who knowes but that it may please the lord againe to cloath his people with a spirit of zeale and courage for the name of christ , yea and powre forth those fiery streames againe of tongues and prophecie in the restauration of zion ? if it be not his holy pleasure so to doe , but that his people with daily study and labour must dig to come at the originall fountaines , gods people have many wayes ( besides the universitie , lazie and monkish ) to attaine to an excellent measure of the knowledge of those tongues . that most despised ( while living ) and now much honoured mr. ainsworth , had scarce his peere amongst a thousand academians for the scripture originalls , and yet he scarce set foot within a colledge walls . chap. cviii . peace . i shall now present you with their . head , viz. concerning the magistrates power in matters of doctrine . that which is unjustly ascribed to the pope , is as unjustly ascribed to the magistrates , viz. to have power of making new articles of faith , or rules of life , or of pressing upon the churches to give such publike honour to the apocrypha writings , or homilies of men , as to read them to the people in the roome of the oracles of god. truth . this position simply considered i acknowledge a most holy truth of god , both against the pope , and the civill magistrates challenge , both pretending to be the vicars of christ iesus upon the earth . yet two things here i shall propose to consideration . first , since the parliament of england thrust the pope out of his chaire in england , and set downe king henry the . and his successours in the popes roome , establishing them supreme governours of the church of england , since such an absolute government is given by all men to them to be guardians of the first table and worship of god ; to set up the true worship , to suppresse all false , and that by the power of the sword , and therefore consequently they must judge and determine what the true is , and what the false . and since the magistrate is bound ( by these authours principles ) to see the church , the church officers and members doe thair duty , he must therefore judge what is the churches duty , and when she performes or not performes it , or when she exceeds , so like wise when the ministers performe their duty , or when they exceed it . and if the magistrate must judge , then certainly by his owne eye , and not by the eyes of others , though assembled in a nationall or generall councell . then also upon his judgement must the people rest , as upon the minde and judgement of christ , or else it must be confest that he hath no such power left him by christ to compell the soules of men in matters of gods worship . secondly , concerning the apocrypha writings and homilies to be urged by the magistrate to be read unto the people as the oracles of god : i aske if the homilies of england contain not in them much pretious and heavenly matter ● secondly , if they were not 〈◊〉 ( at least many of them ) by excellent men for learning , holinesse , and witnesse of christs truth incomparable . thirdly , were they not authorised by that most rare and pious prince ed. . then head of the church of england ? with what great solemnity and rejoycing were they received of thousands ? yet now behold their children after them sharply censure them for apocrypha writings and homilies trust into the roome of the word of god , and so falling into the consideration of a false and counterfeit scripture . i demand of these worthy men whether a servant of god might then lawfully have refused to read or heare such a false scripture ? secondly , if so , whether king edward might have lawfully compelled such a man to yeeld and submit , or else have persecuted him , yea ( according to the authors principles ) whether he ought to have spared him , because after the admonitions of such pious and learned men , this man shall now prove an hereticke , and as an obstinate person sinning against the light of his owne conscience ? in this case what shall the conscience of the subject doe , awed by the dread of the most high ? what shall the conscience of the magistrate do , zealous for his glorious reformation , being constantly perswaded by his clergy of his lieutenantship received from christ ? again , what priviledge have those worthy servants of god either in old or new england , to be exempted from the mistakes , into which those glo●ious worthies in k. edwards time did fall ? and if so , what bloudy conclusions are presented to the world , perswading men to plucke up by the roots from the land of the living , all such as seem in their eyes hereticall or obstinate ? chap. cix . peace . deare truth , what darke and dismall bloudy paths doe we walke in ? how is thy name and mine in all ages cried up , yet as an english flag in a spanish bottome , not in truth but dangerous treachery and abuse both of truth and peace ? we are now come to the head which concernes the magistrates power in worship . first , they have power ( say they ) to reforme things in the worship of god in a church corrupted , and to establish the pure worship of god , defending the same by the power of the sword against all those who shall attempt to corrupt it . for first , the reigning of idolatry and corruption in religion is imputed to the want of a king , iudges . , . secondly , remissenes in reforming religion , is a fault imputed to them who suffered the high places in israel and in gallio , who cared not for such things , acts . thirdly , forwardnesse this way is a duty not only for kings in the old testament , but for princes under the new , tim . . rom. . . esay . . neither did the kings of israel reforme things amisse as types of christ , but as civill magistrates , and so exemplary to all christians . and here reformation in religion is commendable in a persian king , ezra . . and it is well knowne that remissenes in princes of christendome in matters of religion and worship ( divolving the care thereof only to the clergy , and so setting the hornes thereof upon the churches head ) hath been the cause of antichristian inventions , usurpations and corruptions in the worship and temple of god. secondly , they have not power to presse upon the churches , stinted prayers , o● set liturgies , whether new or old , popish , or others under colour of uniformity of worship , or morall goodnesse of them both for matter and forme , conceiving our arguments sent to our brethren in england concerning this question to evince this truth . thirdly , they have no power to presse upon the churches , neither by law ( as hath been said before ) nor by proclamation and command , any sacred significant ceremonies , whether more or lesse , popish or jewish rite , or any other device of man , be it never so little in the worship of god , under what colour soever of indifferencie , civility , using them without opinion of s●nctity , publicke peace or obedience to righteous authority , as surplice , crosse , kneeling at sacrament ; salt and spitle in baptisme , holy dayes : they having beene so accursed of god , so abused by man , the imposing of some ever making way for the urging of more , the receiving of some making the conscience bow to the burthen of all . fourthly , they have not power to governe and rule the acts of worship in the church of god. it is with a magistrate in a state , in respect of the acts of those who worship in a church , as it is with a prince in a ship , wherein , though he be governour of their persons ( else he should not be their prince ) yet is not governour of the actions of the ma●iners ( then he should be pilot : ) indeed if the pilot shall manifestly erre in his action , he may reprove him , and so any other passenger may : or if he offend against the life and goods of any , he may in due time and place civilly punish him , which no other passenger can doe : for , it is proper to christ , the head of the church , as to prescribe , so to rule the actions of his own worship in the wayes of his servants , esay , . the government of the church is upon his shoulder , which no civill officer ought to attempt : and therefore magistrates have no power to limit a minister either to what he shall preach or pray , or in what manner they shall worship god , lest hereby they shall advance themselves above christ , and limit his spirit . truth . in this generall head are proposed two things . first , what the magistrate ought to doe positively concerning the worship of god. secondly , what he may doe in the worship of god. what he ought to doe is comprised in these particulars . first , he ought to reforme the worship of god when it is corrupted . secondly , he ought to establish a pure worship of god. thirdly , he ought to defend it by the sword : he ought to restrain idolatry by the sword , and to cut off offendours , as former passages have opened . for the proofe of this positive part of his duty are propounded three sorts of scriptures . first , from the practice of the kings of israel and iudah . secondly , some from the new testament . thirdly , from the practice of kings of other nations . unto which i answer . first , concerning this latter , the babylonian and persian kings , nebuchadnezzar , cyrus , darius , artaxerxes : i conceive i have sufficiently before proved , that these idolatrous princes making such acts concerning the god of israel , whom they did not worship nor know , nor meant so to doe , did onely permit and tolerate , and countenance the iewish worship , and out of strong convictions that this god of israel was able to doe them good ( as well as their owne gods ) to bring wrath upon them and their kingdomes , as they beleeved their owne also did , in which respect all the kings of the world may be easily brought to the like : but are no president or patternes for all princes and civill magistrates in the world , to chalenge or 〈◊〉 the power of ruling or governing the church of christ , and of wearing the spirituall crowne of the lord , which he alone weareth in a spirituall way by his officers and governours after his owne holy appointment . secondly , for those of the new testament i have ( as i beleeve ) fully and sufficiently answered . so also that prophesie of isa. . lastly , however i have often touched those scriptures produced from the practice of the kings of israel and judah . yet because so great a waeight of this controversie lyes upon this president of the old testament , from the duties of this nature enjoyned to those kings and governours , and their practices , obeying or disobeying , accordingly commended or reproved . i shall ( with the helpe of christ iesus , the true king of israel ) declare and demonstrate how weake and brittle this supposed pillar of marble is , to beare up and sustain such a mighty burthen and waight of so many high concernments as are laid upon it . in which i shall evidently prove that the state of israel as a nationall state made up of spirituall and civill power , so farre as it attended upon the spirituall , was meerly figurative and typing out the christian churches consisting of both iewes and gentiles , enjoying the true power of the lord iesus , establishing , reforming , correcting , defending in all cases concerning his kingdome and government . chap. cx . peace . blessed be the god of truth , the god of peace , who hath so long preserved us in this our retired conference without interruptions : his mercy still shields us while you expresse and i listen to that so much imitated , yet most unimitable state of israel . yet before you descend to particulars ( deare truth ) let me cast one mite into your great treasury concerning that instance ( just now mentioned ) of the persian kings . me thinkes those presidents of cyrus , darius and artaxerxes are strong against new englands tenent and practice . those princes professedly gave free permission and bountifull incouragement to the consciences of the iewes , to use and practise their religion , which religion was most eminently contrary to their owne religion and their countries worship . truth . i shall ( sweet peace ) with more delight passe on these rough wayes , from your kinde acceptance and unwearied patience in attention . in this discovery of that vast and mighty difference betweene that state of israel and all other states ( onely to bee matched and parallel'd by the christian church or israel ) i shall select some maine and principall considerations concerning that state wherein the irreconciliable differences and disproportion may appeare . first , i shall consider the very land and country of canaan it selfe , and present some considerations proving it to be a none● such . first , this land was espyed out and chosen by the lord out of all the countries of the world to be the seat of his church and people , ezek. ● . but now there is no respect of earth , of places or countries with the lord : so testified the lord iesus christ himselfe to the woman of samaria ( iohn . ) professing that neither at that mountaine nor at ierusalem should men worship the father . while that nationall state of the church of the iewes remained , the tribes were bound to goe up to ierusalem to worship , psal. . but now , in every nation ( not the whole land or country as it was with canaan ) he that feareth god and worketh righteousnesse is accepted with him , act. . . this then appeared in that large commission of the lord jesus to his first ministers : goe into all nations , and not onely into canaan , to carry tidings of mercy , &c. secondly , the former inhabitants thereof , seven great and mightie nations ( deuter. . ) were all devoted to destruction by the lords owne mouth , which was to bee performed by the impartiall hand of the children of israel , without any sparing or shewing mercy . but so now it hath not pleased the lord to devote any people to present destruction , commanding his people to kill and slay without covenant or compassion , deuteronomy . . where have emperours , kings , or generals an immediate call from god to destroy whole cities , city after city , men , women , children , old and young , as ioshua practised ? ioshua . and . chapters , &c. this did israel to these seven nations , that they themselves might succeed them in their cities , habitations , and possessions . this onely is true in a spirituall antitype , when gods people by the sword ( the two-edged sword of gods spirit slay the ungodly and become heires , yea fellow heires with christ iesus , romanes . gods meeke people inherit the earth , ( matthew . ) they mystically like noah ( hebrewes ) condemne the whole unbeleeving world , both by present and future sentence , corinth . . . chap. cxi . thirdly the very materials , the gold and silver of the idols of this land were odio●s and abominable , and dangerous to the people of israel , that they might not desire it , nor take it to themselves , deut. . . . lest themselves also become a curse , and like unto those cursed abominable things . whereas we finde not any such accursed nature in the materials of idols or images now , but that ( the idolatrous formes being changed ) the silver and gold may be cast and coyned , and other materialls lawfully employed and used . yet this we finde in the antitype , that gold , silver , yea house , land , yea wives , children , yea life it selfe , as they allure and draw us from god in christ , are to be abominated and hated by us , without which hatred and indignation against the most plausible and pleasing enticings from christ iesvs , it is impossible for any man to bee a true christian , luke . . fourthly , this land , this earth was an holy land , z●ch . . . ceremonially and typically holy , fields , gardens , orchards , houses , &c. which holines the world knowes not now in one land , or country , house , field , garden , &c. one above another . yet in the spirituall land of canaan the christian church , all things are made holy and pure ( in all lands ) to the pure , tit. . meats and drinkes are sanctified , that is , dedicated to the holy use of the thankfull believers , tim. . vea and the unbelieving husband , wife , and their children are sanctified and made holy to believers , insomuch that that golden inscription ( peculiar to the forehead of the high priest ) holines to iehovah , shall be written upon the very bridles of the horses , as all are dedicated to the service of christ iesus in the gospels peace and holines . fifthly , the lord expresly calls it his own land , levit. . hos. . iehovah his land , a terme proper unto spirituall canaan , the church of god , which must needs be in respect of his choice of that land to be the seate and residence of his church and ordinances . bu● now the partition wall is broken down , and in respect of the lords speciall proprie●ie to one country more then another , what d●fference between asia and africa , between europe and america . between england and turkie , london and constantinople ? this land ( among many other glorious titles given to it ) was called emanuels land , that is , god with us , christ his land , or christian land , isa . . but now : ierusalem from above is not materiall and earthly , but spirituall , gal. . heb. . materiall ierusalem is no more the lords citie then iericho , ninivie , or babell ( in respect of place or countrey ) for even at babell literall was a church of iesus christ , pet. . it is true that antichrist hath christned all those countries whereon the whore sitteth , revel . with the title of christs land , or christian land . and hundius , in his map of the christian world , makes this land to extend to all asia , a great part of africa , all europe , and a vast part of america , even so farre as his unchristian christenings hath gone . but as every false christ hath false teachers , false christians , false faith , hope , love , &c. and in the end false salvation , so doth he also counterfeit the false name of christ , christians , christian land or countrey . sixthly , this land was to keepe her sabbaths unto god : sixe yeares they were to sow their fields , and prune their vines , but in the . yeare they were not to sow their fields , nor prune their vineyards , but to eat that which grew of it selfe or own accord . but such observations doth not god now lay upon any fields , vineyards , &c. under the gospell . yet in the spirituall land of canaan , the true church , there is a spirituall soule-rest or sabbath , a quiet depending upon god , a living by faith in him , a making him our portion , and casting all care upon him who careth for us : yea sometimes he feedeth his by immediate gracious workes of providence , when comforts arise out of the earth , without secondary meanes or causes , as here , or as elsewhere manna descended from heaven . seventhly , such portions and possessions of lands , fields , houses , vineyards , were sold with caution or proviso of returning againe in the yeare of iubilee to the right owners , levit. . . such cautions , such provisos are not now injoyned by god in the sale of lands , fields , inheritances , nor no such iubilee or redemption to be expected . yet this also finds a fulfilling in the spirituall canaan , or church of god , unto which the silver trumpet of iubilee , the gospel , hath ●ounded a spirituall restitution of all their spirituall rights and inheritances , which either they have lost in the fall of the first man adam , or in their particular falls , when they are captive and sold unto sin , rom. . or lastly in the spirituall captivitie of babele bondage : how sweet then is the name of a saviour , in whom is the joyfull sound of deliverance and redemption ! eightly , this land or country was a figure or type of the kingdome of heaven above , begun here below in the church and kingdome of god , heb. . . heb. . . . hence was a birthright so pretious in canaans land : hence naboth so inexorable and resolute in refusing to part with his inheritance to king ahab , counting all ahabs seeming reasonable offers most unreasonable , as soliciting him to part with a garden plot of canaans land , though his refusall cost him his very life . what land , what country now is israels parallel and antitype , but that holy mysticall nation the church of god , peculiar and called out to him out of every nation and country , pet. . . in which every true spirituall naboth hath his spirituall inheritance , which he dares not part with , though it be to his king or soveraigne , and though such his refusall cost him this present life . chap. cxii . peace . doubtlesse that canaan land was not a patterne for all lands : it was a none-such , unparalleld and unmatchable . truth . many other considerations of the same nature i might annex , but i picke here and there a flowre , and passe on to a second head concerning the people themselves , wherein the state of the people shall appeare unmatchable , but only by the true church and israel of god. first , the people of israel were all the seed or off-spring of one man abraham , psal. . . and so downward the seed of isaac and iacob , hence called the israel of god , that is , wrastlers and prevailers with god , distinguished into twelve tribes all sprung out of israels loynes . but now , few nations of the world but are a mixed seed , the people of england especially the britaines , picts , romanes , saxons , danes and normans , by a wonderfull providence of god being become one english people . only the spirituall israel and seed of god the new-borne are but one : christ is the seed , gal. . and they only that are christs are only abrahams seed and heires according to the promise . this spirituall seed is the only antitype of the former figurative and typicall : a seed which all christians ought to propagate , yea even the unmarried men and women ( who are not capable of naturall off spring ) for thus is this called the seed of christ ( who lived and died unmarried isa. . . secondly , this people was selected and separated to the lord , his covenant and worship from all the people and nations of the world beside to be his peculiar and onely people , levit. . . &c. therefore such as returned from babyl●n 〈◊〉 ierusalem , they separated ●hemselves to eat the passeover , 〈◊〉 and in that solemne humiliation and confession before the lord , nehem . the children of israel separated themselves from all strangers . this separation of theirs was so famous , that it extended not only to circumcision , the passeover , and matters of gods worship , but even to temporall and civill things : thus ( ezra ) they separated or put away their very wives , which they had taken of the strange nations contrary to the commandement of the lord. but where hath the god of heaven in the gospel separated whole nations or kingdomes ( english , scotch , irish , french , dutch , &c. ) as a peculiar people and antitype of the people of israel ? yea where the least footing in all the scripture for a nationall church after christs comming ? can any people in the world patterne this samplar but the new-borne israel , such as feare god in every nation ( acts . . ) commanded to come forth and separate from all uncleane things or persons , ( cor. . ) and though not bound to put away strange wives as israel did , because of that peculiar respect upon them in civill things , yet to be holy or set apart to the lord in all manner of civill conversation , pet. . only to marry in the lord , yea and to marry as if they married not cor . yea to hate wife and children , father , mother , house and land , yea and life it selfe for the lord iesus , luc. . thirdly , this seed of abraham thus separate from all people unto the lord was wonderfully redeemed and brought from aegypts bon●age through the red sea , and the wildernesse unto the land of canaan , by many strange signes and wonderfull miracles , wrought by the ou●stretched hand of the lord , famous and dreadfull , and to be admired by all succeeding peoples and generations , deut. . , , . aske now from one side of the heaven unto the other , whether there hath been such a thing as this , & c ? and we may aske againe from one side of the heaven unto the other whether the lord hath now so miraculously redeemed and brought unto himselfe any nation or people as he did this people of israel . peace . the english , scot●h , dutch &c. are apt to make themselves the parallels , as wonderfully come forth of pope●y , &c. truth . . but first , whole nations are no churches under the gospel . secondly , bring the nations of europe professing protestanisme to the ballance of the sanctuary , and ponder well whether the body , bulk , the generall or one hundreth part of such peoples be truly turned to god from popery . who knowes not how easie it is to turne , and turne , and turn againe whole nations from one religion to another ? who knowes not that within the compasse of one poore span of yeares revolution , all england hath become from halfe papist , halfe protestant , to be absolute protestants ; from absolute protestants , to absolute papists ; from absolute papists ( changing as fashions ) to absolute protestants ? i will not say ( as some worthy witnesses of christ have uttered ) that all england and europe must againe submit their faire necks to the popes yoake : but this , i say , many scriptures concerning the destruction of the beast and the whore looke that way : and i adde , they that feele the pulse of the people seriously must confesse that a victorious sword , and a spanish inquisition will soone make millions face about as they were in the fore-fathers times . chap. cxiii . peace . o that the steersmen of the nations might remember this , bee wise and kisse the sonne , lest he goe on in this his dreadfull anger , and dash them in peeces here and eternally . truth . i therefore thirdly adde , that only such as are abrahams seed , circumcised in heart , new-borne , israel ( or wrastlers with god ) are the antitype of the former israel , these are only the holy nation ( pet. . ) wonderfully redeemed from the aegypt of this world ( titus . . ) brought through the red sea of baptisme ( cor. . ) through the wildernesse of afflictions , and of the peoples ( dent. . ez●k . . ) into the kingdome of heaven begun below , even that christian land of promise , where flow the everflowing streames and rivers of spirituall milke and honey . fourthly , all this people universally ( in typicall and ceremoniall respect ) were holy and cleane in this their separation and sequestration unto god , exod. . . hence , even in respect of their naturall birth in that land they were an holy seed , and ezr● makes it the matter of his great complaint , ezra . . the holy seed have mingled themselves . but where is now that nation or country upon the face of the earth , thus cleane and holy unto god , and bound to so many ceremoniall cleansings and purgings ? are not all the nations of the earth alike cleane unto god , or rather alike uncleane , untill it pleaseth the father of mercies to call some out to the knowledge and grace of his sonne , making them to see their filthinesse and strangenesse from the commonweale of israel , and to wash in the bloud of the lambe of god. this taking away the difference between nation and nation , country and country , is most fully and admirably declared in that great vision of all sorts of living creatures presented unto peter , acts . whereby it pleased the lord to informe peter of the abolishing of the difference between iew and gentile in any holy or unholy , cleane or uncleane respect . fifthly , ( not only to speake of all , but to select one or two more ) this people of israel in that nationall state were a type of all the children of god in all ages under the profession of the gospel , who are therefore called the children of abraham , and the israel of god , gal. . & gal. . a kingly priesthood and holy nation ( pet. . ) in a cleare and manifest antitype to the former israel , exod. . . hence christians now are figuratively in this respect called iewes , rev. . where lies a cleare distinction of the true and false christian under the consideration of the true and false iew : behold i will make them of the synagogue of sathan that say they are jewes and are not , but doe lie , rev. . but such a typicall respect we finde not now upon any people , nation or country of the whole world : but out of all nations , tongues and languages is god pleased to call some and redeem them to himselfe ( rev. . . ) and hath made no difference betweene the iewes and gentiles , greekes and scithians , gal. . who by regeneration or second birth , become the israel of god , gal. . the temple of god , cor. . and the true ierusalem , heb. . lastly , all this whole nation or people , as they were of one typicall seed of abraham , & sealed with a shamefull & painfull ordinance of cutting off the fore-skin , which differenced them from all the world beside : so also were they bound to such and such solemnities of figurative worships . amongst many others i shall end this passage concerning the people with a famous observation out of numb . . . viz. all that whole nation was bound to celebrate and keepe the feast of the passeover in his season , or else they were to be put to death . but doth god require a whole nation , country or kingdome now thus to celebrate the spirituall passeover , the supper and feast of the lambe christ iesus , at such a time once a yeare , and that whosoever shall not so doe shall bee put to death ? what horrible prophanations , what grosse hypocrisies , yea what wonderfull desolations ( sooner or later ) must needs follow upon such a course ? t is true , the people of israel , brought into covenant with god in abraham , and so successively borne in covenant with god , might ( in that state of a nationall church ) solemnly covenant and sweare that whosoever would not seeke iehovah the god of israel , should be put to death , chron. . whether small or great , whether man or woman . but may whole nations or kingdomes now ( according to any one title exprest by christ iesus to that purpose ) follow that patterne of israel and put to death all , both men and women , great and small , that according to the rules of the gospel are not borne againe , penitent , humble , heavenly , patient ? &c. what a world of hypocrisie from hence is practised by thousands , that for feare will stoope to give that god their bodies in a forme , whom yet in truth their hearts affect not ? yea also what a world of prophanation of the holy name and holy ordinances of the lord in prostituting the holy things of god ( like the vessels of the sanctuary , dan. . ) to prophane , impenitent and unregenerate persons ? lastly , what slaughters both of men and women must this necessarily bring into the world , by the insurrections and civill warres about religion and conscience ? yea what slaughters of the innocent and faithfull witnesses of christ jesus , who choose to bee slaine all the day long for christ his sake , and to fight for their lord and master christ , onely with spirituall and christian weapons ? chap. cxiv . peace . it seemes ( deare truth ) a mighty gulfe betweene that people and nation , and the nations of the world then extant and ever since . truth . as sure as the blessed substance to all those shadowes , christ iesus is come , so unmatchable and never to bee paralleld by any nationall state was that israel in the figure or shadow and yet the israel of god now , the regenerate or newborne , the circumcised in heart by repentance and mortification , who willingly submit unto the lord iesus as their onely king and head , may fitly parallell and answer that israel in the type , without such danger of hypocrisie , of such horrible prophanations , and of firing the civill state in such bloody combustions , as all ages have brought forth upon this compelling a whole nation or kingdome to be the antitype of israel . peace . were this light entertained , some hopes would shine forth for my returne and restauration . truth . i have yet to adde a third consideration concerning the kings and governours of that land and people . they were to be ( unlesse in their captivities ) of their brethren , members of the true church of god , as appeares in the history of moses , the elders of israel , and the iudges and kings of israel afterward . but first , who can deny but that there may be now many lawfull governours , magistrates and kings in the nations of the world , where is no true church of iesus christ ? secondly , we know the many excellent gifts wherewith it hath pleased god to furnish many , inabling them for publike service to their countries both in peace and war ( as all ages and experience testifies ) on whose soules hee hath not yet pleased to shine in the face of iesus christ : which gifts and talents must all lye buried in the earth , unlesse such persons may lawfully be called and chosen to , and improved in publike service , notwithstanding their different or contrary conscience and worship . thirdly , if none but true christians , members of christ iesus , might be civill magistrates , and publikely intrusted with civill affaires , then none but members of churches , christians should be husbands of wives , fathers of children , masters of servants : but against this doctrine the whole creation , the whole world may justly rise up in armes , as not onely contrary to true piety , but common humanity it selfe . for if a commonweale bee lawfull amongst men that have not heard of god nor christ , certainly their officers , ministers , and governours must be lawfull also . fourthly , it is notoriously knowne to be the dangerous doctrine profest by some papists , that princes degenerating from their religion , and turning heretickes , are to be deposed , and their subjects actually discharged from their obedience . which doctrine all such must necessarily hold ( however most loath to owne it ) that hold the magistrate guardian of both tables , and consequently such an one as is inabled to judge , yea and to demonstrate to all men the worship of god : yea and being thus governor and head of the church he must necessarily be a part of it himselfe : which when by heresie he falls from ( though it may be by truth , miscalled heresie ) he falls from his calling of magistracy , and is utterly disabled from his ( pretended ) guardianship and government of the church . lastly , we may remember the practice of the lord iesus and his followers , commanding and practising obedience to the higher powers , though we finde not one civill magistate a christian in all the first churches . but contrarily the civill magistrate at that time was the bloody beast , made up ( as daniel seemes to imply concerning the romane state , dan. . . ) of the lion , the beare , and the leopard , rev. . . chap. cxv . peace . by these waights wee may try the waight of that commonly received and not questioned opinion , viz. that the civill state and the spirituall , the church and commonweale , they are like hippocrates twinnes , they are borne together , grow up together , laugh together , weepe together , sicken and die together . truth . a witty , yet a most dangerous fiction of the father of ●ies , who hardned in rebellion against god , perswades gods people to drinke downe such deadly poison , though he knowes the truth of these five particulars , which i shall reminde you of . first , many flourishing states in the world have beene and are at this day , which heare not of iesus christ , and therefore have not the presence and concurrence of a church of christ with them . secondly , there have beene many thousands of gods people , who in their personall estate and life of grace were awake to god , but in respect of church estate they knew no other then a church of dead stones , the parish church ; or though some light be of late come in through some cranny , yet they seeke not after , or least of all are joyned to any true church of god , consisting of living and beleeving stones . so that by these new english ministers principles , not onely is the doore of calling to magistracy shut against naturall and unregenerate men ( though excellently ●itted for civill offices ) but also against the best and ablest servants of god , except they be entred into church estate ; so that thousands of gods owne people ( excellently qualified ) not knowing , or not entring into such a church estate , shall not be accounted fit for civill services . thirdly , admit that a civill magistrate be neither a member of a true church of christ ( if any bee in his dominions ) nor in his person feare god , yet may he ( possibly ) give free permission without molestation , yea and sometimes incouragement and assistance to the service and church of god. thus wee finde abraham permitted to build and set up an altar to his god wheresoever hee came amongst the idolatrous nations in the land of canaan . thus cyrus proclaims liberty to all the people of god in his dominions , freely to goe up and build the temple of god at ierusalem , and artaxerxes after him confirmed it . thus the romane emperours and governours under him permitted the church of god the iewes in the lord christs time , their temple and worship , although in civill things they were subject to the romanes . fourthly , the scriptures of truth and the records of time concurre in this , that the first churches of christ iesus , the lights , patternes and presidents to all succeeding ages , were gathered and governed without the aid , assistance or countenance of any civill authoritie , from which they suffered great persecutions for the name of the lord iesus professed amongst them . the nations , rulers , and kings of the earth tumultuously rage against the lord and his anointed , psal. . . . yet vers . . it hath pleased the father to set the lord iesus king upon his holy hill of zion . christ iesus would not be pleased to make use of the civill magistrate to assist him in his spirituall kingdome : nor would he yet be daunted or discouraged in his servants by all their threats and terreurs : for love is strong as death , and the coales thereof give a most vehement flame , and are not quenched by all the waters and flouds of mightiest opposition , cant. . christ church is like a chaste and loving wife , in whose heart is fixed her husbands love , who hath found the tendernesse of his love towards her , and hath been made fruitfull by him , and therefore seekes she not the smiles , nor feares the frownes of all the emperours in the world to bring her christ unto her , or keep him from her . lastly , we finde in the tyrannicall usurpations of the romish antichrist , the hornes ( which some of good note conceive to be the kingdomes , into which the romane empire was quartred and divided ) are expresly said revel . . . to have one minde to give their power and strength unto the beast , yea ( ver . . ) their kingdome unto the beast , untill the words of god shall be fulfilled : whence it followes , that all those nations that are guilded over with the name of christ , have under that mask or viz●rd ( as some executioners and tormentors in the inquisition use to torment ) persecuted the lord iesus christ , either with a more open , grosse and bloody , or with a more subtle , secret and gentle violence . let us cast our eyes about , turne over the records , and examine the experience of past and present generations , and see if all particular observations amount not to this summe , viz. that the great whore hath committed fornication with the kings of the earth , and made drunke thereof nations with the cup of the wine of her fornications : in which drunkennes and whoredome ( as whores use to practice ) she hath robbed the kings and nations of their power and strength , and ( iesabel like ) having procured the kings names and seales , she drinks drunk , revel . . with the blood of naboth , who ( because he dares not part with his rightfull inheritance in the land of canaan , the blessed land of promise and salvation in christ ) as a traitour to the civill state , and blasphemer against god , she ( under the colour of a day of humiliation in prayer and fasting ) stones to death . chap. cxvi . peace . deare truth , how art thou hidden from the eyes of men , in these mysteries ? how should men weep abundantly with iohn , that the lambe may please to open these blessed seale● unto them ? truth . o that men more prized their makers feare ● then should they be more acquainted with their makers councells , for his secret is with them that feare him , psal. . i passe on to a second difference . the kings of israel and iudah were all solemnly annointed with oyle , psal. . . i have found david my servant , with my holy 〈◊〉 have i annointed him . whence the kings of israel and iudah were honoured with that mysticall and glorious title of the anointed , 〈◊〉 christ of the lord , lam. . . the breath of our nostrils , the anointe● of iehovah was taken in their pits , &c. which anoynting and title , however the man of sinne , together with the crowne and diademe of spirituall israel , the church of god , he hath given to some of the kings of the earth , that so he may in lieu thereof dispose of their civill crownes the easier : yet shall we finde it an incommunicable priviledge and prerogative o● of the saints and people of god. for as the lord iesus himselfe in the antitype was not annointed with materiall but spirituall oyle , psal. . with the oyle of gladnes , and luke . . from isa. . . with the spirit of god. the spirit of the lord is upon me , the lord hath annointed me to preach good tidings , &c. so also all his members are annointed with the holy spirit of god , cor. . . & john . hence is it that christians rejoyce in that name , as carrying the very expresse title of the anointed of the lord ; which most superstitiously and sacrilegiously hath been applied only unto kings . peace . o deare truth , how doth the great searcher of all hearts finde out the thefts of the antichristian world ? how are men caried in the darke they know not whither ? how is that heavenly charge , touch not mine anointed , &c. ( psal. . ) common to all christians ( or anointed with ) christ their head , by way of monopoly or priviledge appropriated to kings and princes ? truth . it will not be here unseasonable to call to minde that admirable prophecie , ezek. . , . thus saith iehovah god , remove the diadem , take away the crowne , this shall not be the same , exalt him that is low , and abase him that is high : i will overturne , overturne , overturne , untill he come whose right it is , and i will give it him . the matter is a crown and diadem to be taken from an vsurpers head , and set upon the head of the right owner . peace . doubtlesse this mystically intends the spirituall crowne of the lord jesus , for these many hundreth yeares set upon the heads of the c●mpetitours and corrivals of the lord iesus , upon whose glorious head in his messengers and churches , the crown shall be established ; the anointing , the title , and the crown and power must returne to the lord iesus in his saints , unto whom alone belongs his power and authoritie in ecclesiasticall or spirituall cases . chap. cxvii . truth . i therefore proceed to a third difference between those kings and governours of israel and iudah , and all other kings and rulers of the earth . looke upon the administrations of the kings of israel and iudah , and well weigh the power and authoritie which those kings of israel and iudah exercised in ecclesiasticall and spirituall causes , and upon a due search we shall not find the same scepter of spirituall power in the hand of civill authoritie , which was setled in the hands of the kings of israel and iudah . david appointed the orders of the priests & singers , he brought the arke to ierusalem , he prepared for the building of the temple , the patterne whereof he delivered to salomon : yet david herein could not be a type of the kings and rulers of the earth , but of the king of heaven , christ iesus : for , first , david , as he was a king , so was he also a prophet , acts . . and therefore a type ( as moses also was , of that great prophet the son of god. and they that plead for davids kingly power , must also by the same rule plead for his propheticall , by which he swayed the scep●er of israel in church affaires . secondly , it is expresly said , cron. . . . . verses , that the patterne which david gave to salomon ( concerning the matter of the temple and worship of god ) he had it by the spirit , which was no other but a figure of the immediate inspiration of the spirit of god , unto the lord iesus the true spirituall king of israel , john. . . rabbi , thou art the son of god ; rabbi , thou art the king of israel . againe , what civill magistrate may now act as salomon ( a type of christ ) doth act , king. . . . ? salomon thrust out abiathar from being priest unto iehovah . peace . some object that abiathar was a man of death , ver . . worthy to die , as having followed adonijah ; and therefore salomon executed no more then civill justice upon him . truth . salomon remits the civill punishment , and inflicts upon him a spirituall . but by what right , but as he was king of the church , a figure of christ ? abiathar his life is spared with respect to his former good service in following after david ; but yet he is turned out from the priesthood . but now put the case : suppose that any of the officers of the new-england churches should prove false to the state , and be discovered joyning with a french monsieur , or spanish don , ( thirsting after conquest and dominion ) to further their invasions of that countrey ; yet for some former faithfull service to the state , he should not be adjudged to civill punishment : i aske now , might their governours or their generall court ( their parliament ) depose such a man , a pastour , teacher , or elder , from his holy calling or office in gods house ? or suppose in a partiall and corrupt state , a member or officer of a church should escape with his life upon the commission of marther , ought not a church of christ upon repentance to receive him ? i suppose it will not be said that he ought to execute himselfe ; or that the church may use a civill sword against him . in these cases may such persons ( spar'd in civill punishments for some reason of , or by partialitie of state ) be punished spiritually by the civill magistrate , as abiathar was ? let the very enemies of zion be judges . secondly , if salomon in thrusting out of abiathar was a pattern and president unto all civill magistrates , why not also in putting za●●k in his roome , ver . . but against this the pope , the bishops , the presbyterians , and the independents will all cry out against such a practice in their severall respective claimes and challenges for their ministries . we find the libertie of the subjects of christ in the choice of an apostle , act. . of a deacon , act. . of elders , act. . and guided by the assistance either of the apostles or evangelists , tim. . tit. . without the least influence of any civill magistrate , which shewes the beauty of their liberty . the parliaments of england have by right free choice of their speaker , yet some princes have thus farre beene gratified as to nominate , yea and implicitely to commend a speaker to them . wise men have seene the evill consequences of those influences ( though but in civill things ) how much farre greater and stronger are those snares , when the golden keyes of the sonne of god are delivered into the hands of civill authority ? peace . you know the noise raised concerning those famous acts of asa , hezekiah , iehosaphat , iosiah . what thinke you of the fast proclaimed by iehosaphat ? chron. . . truth . i finde it to be the duty of kings and all in authority , to incourage christs messengers of truth proclaiming repentance , &c. but under the gospel to enforce all naturall and unregenerate people to acts of worship , what president hath christ iesus given us ? first , t is true iehosaphat proclaimed a fast , &c. but was he not in matters spirituall a type of christ , the true king of israel ? secondly , iehosaphat calls the members of the true church to church service and worship of god. but consider , if civill powers now may judge of and determine the actions of worship proper to the saints : i● they may appoint the time of the churches worship , fasting and prayer , &c. why may they not as wel forbid those times which a church of christ shall make choice of , seeing it is a branch of the same root to forbid what lik●th not , as well as to injoyne what pleaseth ? and if in those most solemne duties and exercises , why not also in other ordinary meetings and worships ? and if so , where is the power of the lord jesus bequeathed to his ministers and churches , of which the power of those kings was but a shadow ? chap. cxviii . peace . the liberty of the subject sounds most sweet , london and oxford both professe to fight for it : how much infinitly more sweet is that true soule liberty according to christ iesus ? i know you would not take from caesar ought , although it were to give to god : and what is gods and his peoples i wish that caesar may not take . yet for the satisfaction of some , be pleased to glance upon iosiah his famous acts in the church of god concerning the worship of god , the priests , levites , and their services , compelling the people to keepe the passeover , making himselfe a covenant before the lord , and compelling all that were found in ierusalem and benjamin to stand to it . truth . to these famous practices of iosiah i shall parallell the practices of englands kings : and first de jure , a word or two of their right : then de facto , discusse what hath been done . first , de jure : iosiah was a precious branch of that royall root king david , who was immediately designed by god : and when the golden linkes of the royall chaine broke in the usurpations of the romane conquerour , it pleased the most wise god to send a sonne of david , a sonne of god , to beginne againe that royall line , to sit upon the throne of his father david , luc. . . acts . . it is not so with the gentile princes , rulers and magistrates , ( whether monarchicall , aristrocraticall , or democraticall ) who ( though government in generall be from god , yet ) receive their callings , power and authority , ( both kings and parliaments ) mediately from the people . secondly , iosiah and those kings were kings and governours over the then true and onely church of god nationall , brought into the covenant of god in abraham , and so downward : and they might well be forced to stand to that covenant into which with such immediate signes and miracles they had beene brought . but what commission from christ iesus had henry the eight . edward the . or any ( iosiah like ) to force the many hundred thousands of english men and women , without such immediate signes and miracles that israel had to enter into an holy and spirituall covenant with the invisible god , the father of spirits , or upon paine of death ( as in iosia●s time ) to stand to that which they never made , nor before evangelicall repentance are possibly capable of . now secondly de facto , let it be well remembred concerning the kings of england professing reformation . the foundation of all was laid in henry the . the pope chalengeth to be the vicar of christ iesus here upon earth , to have power of reforming the church , redressing abuses , &c. henry . falls out with the pope , and chalengeth that very power to himself of which he had despoiled the pope , as appeares by that act of parliament establishing henry the supreme head and governour in all cases ecclesiasticall , &c. it pleased the most high god to plague the pope by henry the . his means : but neither pope nor king can ever prove such power from christ derived to either of them . secondly , ( as before intimated ) let us view the workes and acts of englands imitation of iosiahs practice . henry the . leaves england under the slavish bondage of the popes yoake . henry the . reformes all england to a new fashion , halfe papist , halfe protestant . king edward the . turnes about the wheele of the state , and workes the whole land to absolute protestanisme . queene mary succeeding to the helme , steeres a direct contrary course , breakes in peeces all that edward wrought , and brings forth an old edition of englands reformation all popish . mary not living out halfe her dayes ( as the prophet speakes of bloudy persons ) elizabeth ( like ioseph ) advanced from the prison to the palace , and from the irons to the crowne , she pluckes up all her sister maries plants , and sounds a trumpet all protestant . what sober man stands not amazed at these revolutions ? and yet like mother like daughter : and how zealous are we their off-spring for another impression and better edition of a nationall canaan ( in imitation of iudah and iosiah ) which if attained , who knowes how soone succeeding kings or parliaments will quite pull downe and abrogate ? thirdly , in all these formings and reformings , a nationall church of naturall unregenerate men was ( like wax ) the subject matter of all these formes and changes , whether popish or protestant : concerning which nationall state the time is yet to come when ever the lord jesus hath given a word of institution and appointment . chap. cxix . peace . you bring to minde ( deare truth ) a plea of some wiser papists for the popes supremacy , viz. that it was no such exorbitant or unheard of power and jurisdiction which the pope chalenged , but the very same which a woman , queene elizabeth her selfe chalenged , stiling her papissa , or she pope : withall pleading that in point of reason it was far more suitable that the lord jesus would delegate his power rather to a clergie man then a lay man , as henry the . or a woman , as his daughter elizabeth . truth . i beleeve that neither one nor t'other hit the white , yet i beleeve the papists arrowes fall the nearest to it in this particular , viz. that the government of the church of christ should rather belong to such as professe a ministry or office spirituall , then to such as are meerly temporall and civill . so that in conclusion , the whole controversi● concerning the government of christ kingdome or church , will be found to lye between the true and false ministry , both chalenging the true commission , power and keyes from christ. peace . this all glorious diadem of the kingly power of the lord iesus hath beene the eye-sore of the world , and that which the kings and rulers of the world have alwayes lift up their hands unto . the first report of a new king of the iewes puts herod and all ierusalem into frights ; and the power of this most glorious king of kings over the soules and consciences of men , or over their lives and worships , is still the white that all the princes of this world shoot at , and are enraged at the tidings of the true heire the lord iesus in his servants . truth . you well minde ( deare peace ) a twofold exaltation of the lord iesus , one in the soules and spirits of men , and so he is exalted by all that truly love him , though yet remaining in babels captivity , and before they hearken to the voyce of the lord , come forth of babel my people . a second exaltation of christ iesus upon the throne of david his father in his church and congregation , which is his spirituall kingdome here below . i confesse there is a tumultuous rage at his entrance into his throne in the soule and consciences of any of his chosen ; but against his second exaltation in his true kingly power and government , either monarchicall in himself , or ministeriall in the hands of his ministers and churches , are mustred up and shall be in the battels of christ yet to be fought , all the powers of the gates of earth and hell. but i shall mention one diff●rence more between the kings of israel and iud●h , and all other kings and rulers of the gentiles . those kings as kings of israel were all invest●d with a typicall and figurative respect , with which now no civill power in the world can be invested . they wore a double crowne , first , civill : secondly , spirituall , in which respect they typed out the spirituall king of israel , christ iesus . when i say they were types , i make them not in all respect so to be , but as kings and governours over the church and kingdome of god , therein types . hence all those saviours and deliverers , which it pleased god to stirre up extraordinarily to his people , gideon , baruc , sampson , &c. in that respect of their being saviours , iudges , and deliverers of gods people , so were they types of iesus christ , either monarchically ruling by himself immediately , or ministerially by such whom he pleaseth to send to vindicate the liberties and inheritances of his people . chap. cxx . peace . it must needs be confest that since the kings of israel were ceremonially anointed with oile : and secondly , in that they sat upon the throne of david ( which is expressely applied to christ iesus , luc. . . acts . . iohn . . ) their crownes were figurative and ceremoniall : but some here question whether or no they were not types of civill powers and rulers now , when kings and queens shall be nursing fathers and nursing mothers , &c. truth . for answer unto such , let them first remember that the dispute lyes not concerning the monarchicall power of the lord iesus , the power of making lawes , and making ordinances to his saints and subjects : but concerning a deputed and ministeriall power , and this distinction the very pope himself acknowledgeth . there are three great competitours for this deputed or ministeriall power of the lord iesus . first , the arch-vicar or sathan , the pretended vicar of christ on earth , who sits as god over the temple of god , exalting himselfe not only above all that is called god , but over the soules and consciences of all his vassalls , yea over the spirit of christ , over the holy scriptures , yea and god himselfe , dan. . & chap. & rev. . together with thes. . this pretender although he professeth to claime but the ministeriall power of christ to declare his ordinances , to preach , baptise , ordaine ministers , and yet doth he upon the point challenge the monarchicall or absolute power also , being full of selfe exalting and blaspheming , dan. . . & . . rev. . . speaking blasphemies against the god of heaven , thinking to change times and lawes : but he is the sonne of perdition arising out of the bottomlesse pit , and comes to destruction , revel . . for so hath the lord jesus decreed to consume him by the breath of his mouth , thes. . the second great competitour to this crowne of the lord jesus is the civill magistrate , whether emperours , kings , or other inferiour officers of state who are made to beleeve by the false prophets of the world that they are the antitypes of the kings of israel and judah , and weare the crowne of christ. under the wing of the civill magistrate doe three great factions shelter themselves , and mutually oppose each other , striving as for life , who shall sit downe under the shadow of that arme of flesh. first , the prelacie , who ( though some extravagants of late have inclined to wave the king , and to creepe under the wings of the pope , yet ) so far depends upon the king , that it is justly said they are the kings bishops . secondly , the presbyterie , who ( though in truth they ascribe not so much to the civill magistrate as some too grossely do , yet they ) give so much to the civill magistrate as to make him absolutely the head of the church : for , if they make him the reformer of the church , the suppressour of schismaticks and her●ticks , the protectour and defendour of the church , &c. what is this in true plain english but to make him the judge of the true and false church , judge of what is truth , and what errour ; who is schismaticall , who hereticall , unlesse they make him only an executioner , as the pope doth in his punishing of hereticks ? i doubt not but the aristocraticall government of presbyterians may well subsist in a monarchie ( not only regulated but also tyrannicall ) yet doth it more naturally delight in the element of an aristocraticall government of state , and so may properly be said to be ( as the prelates , the kings so these ) the states bishops . the third , though not so great , yet growing faction is that ( so called ) independent : i prejudice not the personall worth of any of the three sorts : this latter ( as i beleeve this discourse hath manifested ) jumpes with the prelates , and ( though not more fully , yet ) more explicitely then the presbyterians cast down the crowne of the lord iesus at the feet of the civill magistrate . and although they pretend to receive their ministrie from the choice of or private persons in church-covenant , yet would they faine perswade the mother old england to imitate her daughter new england's practice , viz. to keep out the presbyterians , and only to embrace themselves , both as the states and the peoples bishops . the third competition for this crown and power of the lord iesus is of those that seperate both from one and t'other , yet divided also amongst themselves into many severall professions . of these , they that goe furthest , professe they must yet come neerer to the wayes of the son of god : and doubtlesse , so farre as they have gone , they bid the most , and make the fairest plea for the puritie and power of christ iesus , let the rest of the inhabitants of the world be judges . let all the former well be viewed in their externall state , pomp , riches , conformitie to the world , &c. and on the other side , let the latter be considered , in their more through departure from sinne and sinfull worship , their condescending ( generally ) to the lowest and meanest contentments of this life , their exposing of themselves for christ to greater sufferings , and their desiring no civill sword nor arme of flesh , but the two-edged sword of gods spirit to try out the matter by : and then let the inhabitants of the world judge , which come neerest to the doctrine , holines , povertie , patience and practice of the lord jesus christ ; and whether or no these later deserve not so much of humanitie , and the subjects libertie , as ( not offending the civill state ) in the freedome of their soules , to enjoy the common aire to breath in . chap. cxx . peace . deare truth , you have shewne me a little draught of zions sorrowes , her children tearing out their mothers bowels : o when will hee that stablisheth , comforteth , and builds up zion , looke downe from heaven . , and have mercy on her ? &c. truth . the vision yet doth tarry ( saith habacuk ) but will most surely come : and therefore the patient and believing must wait for it . but to your last proposition , whether the kings of israel and judah were not types of civill magistrates ? now i suppose by what hath been already spoken , these things will be evident . first , that those former types of the land , of the people , of their worships , were types and figures of a spirituall land , spirituall people , and spirituall worship under christ. therefore consequently , their saviours redeemers , deliverers , iudges , kings , must also have their spirituall antitypes , and so consequently not civill but spirituall governours and rulers ; lest the very essentiall nature of types , figures and shadowes be overthrow●e . secondly , although the magistrate by a civill sword might well compell that nationall church to the externall exercise of their naturall worship : yet it is not possible ( according to the rule of the new testament ) to compell whole nations to true repentance and regeneration , without which ( so farre as may be discerned true ) the worship and holy name of god is prophaned and blasphemed . an arme of flesh , and sword of steele cannot reach to cut the darknesse of the mind , the hardnesse and unbeleefe of the heart , and kindely operate upon the soules affections to forsake a long continued fathers worship , and to imbrace a new , though the best and truest . this worke performes alone that sword out of the mouth of christ , with two edges , rev. . & . thirdly , we have not one tittle in the new testament of christ iesus concerning such a parallel , neither from himselfe , nor from his ministers , with whom he conversed fourty dayes after his resurrection , instructing them in the matters of his kingdome , acts . neither find we any such commission or direction given to the civill magistrate to this purpose , nor to the saints for their submission in matters spirituall , but the contrary , acts . & . cor. . . coloss. . . fourthly , we have formerly viewed the very nature and essence of a civill magistrate , and find it the same in all parts of the world , where ever people live upon the face of the earth , agreeing together in townes , cities , provinces , kingdomes . i say the same essentially civill , both from , . the rise and fountaine whence it springs , to wit , the p●●ples choice and free consent . . the object of it , viz. the common-weale or safety of such a people in their bodies and goods , as the authours of this modell have themselves confessed . this civill nature of the magistrate we have proved to receive no addition of power from the magistrates being a christian , no more then it receives diminution from his not being a christian : even as the common-weale is a true common-weale , although it have not heard of christianitie ; and christianitie professed in it ( as in pergamus , ephesus , &c. ) makes it ne're no more a commonweale , and christianitie taken away , and the candlestick removed , makes it ne're the lesse a commonweale . fifthly , the spirit of god expresly relates the worke of the civill magistrate under the gospel , rom. . expresly mentioning ( as the magistrates object ) the duties of the second table , concerning the bodies and goods of the subject . . the reward or wages which people owe for such a worke , to wit , ( not the contribution of the church for any spirituall work , but ) tribute , toll , custome which are wages payable by all sorts of men , natives and forreigners , who enjoy the same benefit of publick peace and commerce in the nation . sixthly , since the civill magistrate , whether kings or parliaments , states , and governours , can receive no more in justice then what the people give , and are therefore but the eyes and hands and instruments of the people ( simply considered , without respect to this or that religion ) it must inevitably follow ( as formerly i have touched ) that if magistrates have received their power from the people , then the greatest number of the people of every land have received from christ iesus a power to establish , correct , reforme his saints and servants , his wife and spowse , the church : and she that by the expresse word of the lord ( psal. . ) binds kings in chaines , and nobles in links of iron , must her selfe be subject to the changeable pleasures of the people of the world ( which lies in wickednesse , iohn . ) even in matters of heavenly and spirituall nature . hence therefore in all controversie concerning the church , ministrie and worship , the last appeale must come to the bar of the people or commonweal , where all may personally meet , as in some commonweales of small number , or in greater by their representatives . hence then no person esteemed a beleever , and added to the church . no officer chosen and ordained . no person cast forth and excommunicated , but as the common-weale and people please , and in conclusion , no church of christ in this land or world , and consequently no visibly christ the head of it . yea yet higher , consequently no god in the world worshipped according to the institutions of christ jesus , except the severall peoples of the nations of the world shall give allowance . peace . deare truth , oh whither have our forefathers and teachers led us ? higher then to god himselfe ( by these doctrines driven out of the world ) you cannot rise : and yet so high must the inevitable and undeniable consequences of these their doctrines reach , if men walke by their owne common principles . truth . i may therefore here seasonably adde a seventh , which is a necessary consequence of all the former arguments , and an argument it selfe : viz. we finde expresly a spirituall power of christ iesus in the hands of his saints , ministers and churches , to bee the true antitype of those former figures in all the prophecies concerning christ his spirituall power , isa. . dan. . mich. . &c. compared with luc. . . act. . . cor. . math. . marc. . . &c. chap. cxxi . peace . glorious and conquering truth , mee thinkes i see most evidently thy glorious conquests : how mighty are thy spirituall weapons ( cor. . ) to breake downe those mighty and strong holds and castles , which men have fortified themselves withall against thee ? o that even the thoughts of men may submit and bow downe to the captivity of jesus christ ! truth . your kinde incouragement makes mee proceed more cheerfully to a fourth difference from the lawes and statutes of this land , different from all the lawes and statutes of the world , and parallel'd onely by the lawes and ordinances of spirituall israel . first then consider we the law-maker , or rather the law-publisher or prophet , as moses calls himselfe , deut. . and act. . he is expresly called that prophet who figured out christ iesus who was to come , like unto moses , greater then moses , as the son is greater then the servant . such law-givers or law-publishers never had any state or people as moses the type , or christ iesus , miraculously stirred up and sent as the mouth of god betweene god and his people . secondly , concerning the lawes themselves : it is true , the second table containes the law of nature , the law morall and civill , yet such a law was also given to this people as never to any people in the world : such was the law of worship , psal. . peculiarly given to iacob , and god did not deale so with other nations : which lawes for the matter of the worship in all those wonderfull significant sacrifices , and for the manner by such a priesthood , such a place of tabernacle , and afterward of temple , such times and solemnities of festivals , were never to be parallel'd by any other nation , but onely by the true christian israel established by iesus christ amongst iewes and gentiles throughout the world. thirdly , the law of the tenne words ( deut. . ) the epitome of all the rest , it pleased the most high god to frame and pen twice with his owne most holy , and dreadfull finger upon mount sinai , which he never did to any other nation before or since , but onely to that spirituall israel , the people and church of god , in whose hearts of flesh he writes his lawes , according to ier . heb . and . peace . such promulgation of such lawes , by such a prophet , must needs be matchlesse and unparallel'd . truth . in the fift place consider we the punishments and rewards annexed to the breach or observation of these lawes . first , those which were of a temporall and present consideration of this life : blessings and curses of all sorts opened at large , levit. . and deut. . which cannot possibly be made good in any state , countrey or kingdome , but in a spirituall sense in the church and kingdome of christ. the reason is this , such a temporall prosperity of outward peace and plenty of all things , of increase of children , of cattell , of honour , of health , of successe , of victory , suits not temporally with the afflicted and persecuted estate of gods people now : and therefore spirituall and soule blessednesse must be the antitype , viz. in the midst of revilings , and all manner of evill speeches for christs sake , soule blessednesse . in the midst of afflictions and persecutions , soule blessednesse , math. . and luc. . and yet herein the israel of god should enjoy their spirituall peace , gal. . . out of that blessed temporall estate to be cast or caried captive , was their excommunication or casting out of gods sight , king. . . therefore was the blasphemer , the false prophet , the idolater , to bee cast out or cut off from this holy land : which punishment cannot be parallel'd by the punishment of any state or kingdome in the world , but onely by the excommunicating or outcasting of person or church from the fellowship of the saints and churches of christ iesus in the gospel . and therefore ( as before i have noted ) the putting away of the false prophet , by stoning him to death , deut. . is fitly answered ( and that in the very same words ) in the antitype , when by the generall consent or stoning of the whole assembly , and wicked person is put away from amongst them , that is , spiritually cut off out of the land of the spiritually living , the people or church of god , cor. . galat. . lastly , the great and high reward or punishment of the keeping or breach of these lawes to israel , was such as cannot suit with any state or kingdome in the world beside : the reward of the observation was life , eternall life . the breach of any one of these law● was death , eternall death or damnation from the presence of the lord. so rom. . iam. . such a covenant god made not before nor since with any state or people in the world . for , christ is the end of the law for righteousnesse to every one that beleeveth , rom. . . and he that beleeveth in that son of god , hath eternall life ; hee that beleeveth not hath not life , but is condemned already , john . and john . chap. cxxii . peace . deare truth , you have most lively set forth the unparallel'd state of that typicall land and people of the iewes in their peace and quiet government : let mee now request you in the last place to glance at the difference of the wars of this people from the wars of other nations , and of their having no antitype but the churches of christ iesus . first , all nations round about israel more or lesse , sometime or other , had indignation against this people , aegyptians , edomites , moabites , ammonites , midians , philistians , assyrians and babylonians , &c. as appeares in the history of moses , samuel , iudges and kings , and in all the prophets : you have an expresse catalogue of them , psal. . sometimes many hundred thousand enemies in pitcht field against them : of ethiopians ten hundred thousand at once in the dayes of asa , chron. . and at other times as the sand upon the sea shoare . such enemies the lord iesus foretold his israel , the world shall hate you , iohn . you shall be hated of all men for my names sake , matth. . all that will live godly in christ iesus must be persecuted or hunted , tim. . and not only by flesh and bloud , but also by principalities , powers , spirituall wickednesse in high places ( ephes. . ) by the whole pagan world under the roman emperours , and the whole antichristian world under the roman popes , rev . & . chap. by the kings of the earth , rev. . and gog and magog , like the sand upon the sea shoare ( rev. . ) peace . such enemies , such armies , no history , no experience proves ever to have come against one poore nation as against israel in the type ; and never was nor shall be knowne to come against any state or country now , but the israel of god the spirituall iewes , christs true followers in all parts and quarters of the world. beside all these without , israel is betraied within her owne bowells , bloudy sauls , absaloms , she●aes , adonljahs , ieroboams , athal●ahs raising insurrections , conspiracies , tumults , in the antitype , and parallell the spirituall state of the christian church . secondly , consider we the famous and wonderfull battells , victories , captivities , deliverances , which it pleased the god of israel to dispence to that people and nation , and let us search if they can be paralleld by any state or people , but mystically and spiritually the true christian israel of god , gal. . how famous was the bondage and slavery of that people and nation yeares in the land of aegypt , and as famous , glorious and miraculous was their returne through the red sea ( a figure of baptisme , corinth . . and aegypt a figure of an aegypt now , rev. . ? ) how famous was the yeares captivity of the iewes in babel transported from that land of canaan , and at the full period returned againe to ierusalem , a type of the captivity of gods people now spiritually captivated in mysticall babel , rev. . ? time would faile me to speake of ioshua's conquest of literall canaan , the slaughter of kings , of the miraculous taking of iericho and other cities ; gideon his miraculous battell against the midianites ; ionathan and his armour bearer against the philistims ; david by his smooth stones against goliah ; asa , iehosaphat , hezechia , their mighty and miraculous victories against so many hundred thousand enemies , and that sometimes without a blow given . what state , what kingdome , what warres and combats , victories and deliverances can parallel this people , but the spirituall and mysticall israel of god in every nation and country of the world , typed out by that small typicall handfull , in that little spot of ground the land of canaan ? the israel of god now , men and women , fight under the great lord generall , the lord iesus christ : their weapons , armour , and artillery , is like themselves spirituall , set forth from top to toe , ephes. . so mighty and so potent that they breake downe the strongest holds and castles , yea in the very soules of men and carry into captivity the very thoughts of men , subjecting them to christ● iesus : they are spirituall conquerours , as in all the churches of asia , he that overcommeth : he that overcommeth , rev. . & . their victories and conquests in this are contrary to those of this world , for when they are slaine and slaughtered , yet then they conquer : so overcame they the divell in the roman emperours , rev. . by the bloud of the lambe : . by the word of their testimony : . the cheerfull spilling of their owne bloud for christ ; for they loved not their lives unto the death : and in all this they are more then conquerors through him that loved them , rom. . this glorious armie of white troopers , horses and harnesse ( christ iesus and his true israel ) rev. . gloriously conquer and overcome the beast , the false prophet and the kings of the earth up in armes against them , rev. . and lastly , raigning with christ a thousand yeares they conquer the divell himselfe and the numberlesse armies ( like the sand on the sea shoare ) of gog and magog , and yet not a tittle of mention of any sword , helmet , breastplate , shield or horse , but what is spirituall and of a heavenly nature : all which warres of israel have been , may be , and shall be fulfilled mystically and spiritually . i could further insist on other particulars of israels unparalled state , and might display those excellent passages which it pleaseth god to mention , n●hem . chap. cxxiii . peace . you have ( deare truth ) as in a glasse presented the face of old and new israel , and as in water , face answereth to face , so doth the face of typicall israel to the face of the antitype , between whom , and not between canaan and the civill nations and countries of the world now , there is an admirable consent and harmony : but i have heard some say , was not the civill state and judicialls of that people presidentiall ? truth . i have in part , and might further discover , that from the king upon his throne , to the very beasts , yea the excrements of their bodies ( as we see in their going to war , deut . ● ) their civills , moralls , and naturalls were carried on in types : and however i acknowledge that what was simply morall , civill , and naturall in israels state , in their constitutions , lawes , punishments , may be imitated and followed by the states , countries , cities and kingdomes of the world : yet who can question the lawfulnesse of other formes of government , lawes and punishments which differ , since civill constitutions are mens ordinances ( or creation , . pet. . . ) unto which gods people are commanded even for the lords sake to submit themselves , which if they were unlawfull they ought not to do ? peace . having thus far proceeded in examining whether god hath charged the civill state with the establishing of the spirituall and religious , what conceive you of that next assertion , viz , it is well knowne that the remissenes of princes in christendome in matters of religion and worship , divolving the care thereof only to the clergie , and so setting the● ho●●es upon the churches head , hath been the cause of 〈◊〉 invention , usurpation and corruption in the worship and temple of god. truth . it is lamentably come to passe by gods just permission , sathans policie , the peoples sinne , and the malice of the wicked against christ , and the corruption of princes and magistrates , that so many inventions 〈◊〉 , and corruptions are 〈◊〉 in the worship and temple of god throughout that part of the world which is called christian , and may most properly be called the popes christendome , in opposition to christ iesus his true christian common-weale , or church the true christendome : but that this hath arisen from princes remissenesse in not keeping their watch , to establish the purity of religion , doctrine and worship , and to punish ( according to israels patterne ) all false ministers , by rooting them and their worships out of the world , that , i say , can never bee evinced ; and the many thousands of glorious soules under the altar , ( whose blood hath beene spilt by this position ) and the many hundred thousand soules , driven out of their bodies by civill warres , and the many millions of soules forced to hypocrisie and ruine eternall , by inforced vniformities in worship , will to all eternity proclaime the contrary . indeed it shewes a most injurious idlenes and unfaithfulnes in such as professe to be messengers of christ iesus , to cast the heaviest weight of their care upon the kings and rulers of the earth , yea , upon the very common-weales , bodies of people , ( that is , the world it selfe ) who have fundamentally in themselves the root of power , to set up what government and governours they shall agree upon . secondly , it shewes abundance of carnall diffidence and distrust of the glorious power and gracious presence of the lord iesus , who hath given his promise and word , to bee with such his messengers to the end of the world , matth. . that dog that feares to meet a man in the path , runnes on with boldnes at his masters comming and presence at his backe . thirdly , what imprudence and indiscretion is it in the most common affaires of life , to conceive that emperours , kings and rulers of the earth must not only be qualified with politicall and state abilities to make and execute such civill lawes which may concerne the common rights , peace and safety ( which is worke and businesse , load and burthen enough for the ablest shoulders in the commonweal ) but also furnished with such spirituall and heavenly abilities to governe the spirituall and christian commonweale , the flocke and church of christ , to pull downe , and set up religion to judge , determine and punish in spirituall controversies , even to death or banishment : and beside , that not only the severall sorts of civill officers , ( which the people shall choose and set up ) must be so authorised , but that all respective commonweales or bodies of people are charged ( much more ) by god with this worke and busines , radically and fundamentally , because all true civill magistrates , have not the least i●ch of civill power , but what is measured out to them from the free consent of the whole : even as a committee of parliament , cannot further act then the power of the house shall arme and enable them . concerning that objection which may arise from the kings of israel and iudah , who were borne members of gods church , and trained up therein all their dayes , ( which thousands of lawfull magistrates in the world , possibly borne and bred in false worships , pagan or antichristian , never heard of ) and were therein types of the great anointed , the king of israel , i have spoken sufficiently to such as have an eare to heare : and therefore lastly , so unsutable is the commixing and intangling of the civill with the spirituall charge and government , that ( except it was for subsistence , as we see in paul and barnabas , working with their owne hands ) the lord iesus , and his apostles , kept themselves to one : if ever any in this world was able to manage both the spirituall and civill , church and commonweale , it was the lord jesus , ( wisedome it selfe : ) yea hee was the true heire to the crowne of israel , being the sonne of david : yet being sought for by the people to be made a king , joh. . he refused , and would not give a president to any king , prince , or ruler , to manage both swords , and to assume the charge of both tables . now concerning princes , i desire it may bee remembred , who were most injurious and dangerous to christianity , whether nero , domitian , iulian &c. persecuters , or constantine , theodosius , &c. who assumed this power and authority , in and over the church in spirituall things : it is confest by the answerer and others of note , that under these later , the church , the christian state , religion , and worship , were most corrupted : under constantine , christians fell asleepe on the beds of carnall ease and liberty : insomuch that some apply to his times , that sleepe of the church , cant. . . i sleep though mine heart waketh . chap. cxxiv . peace . yes , but some will say , this was not through their assuming of this power , but the ill managing of it . truth . yet are they commonly brought as the great presidents for all succeeding princes and rulers in after ages : and in this very controvesi● , their practices are brought as presidentiall to establish persecution for conscience . secondly , those emperours and other princes and magistrates acted in religion according to their consciences perswasion , ( and beyond the light and perswasion of conscience can no man living walk in any feare of god. ) hence have they forced their subjects to uniformitie and conformitie unto their own consciences ( what ever they were ) though not willing to have been forced themselves in the matters of god and conscience . thirdly , had not the light of their eye of conscience , and the consciences also of their teachers been darkned , they could not have been condemned for want of heavenly affection , rare devotion wonderfull care and diligence , propounding to themselves the best patternes of the kings of iudah , david , salomon , asa , iehosaphat , iosiah , hezekiah : but here they lost the path , and themselves , in perswading themselves to be the parallels and antytipes to those figurative and typicall princes : whence they conceived themselves bound to make their cities , kingdomes , empires new holy lands of canaan , and themselves governours and iudges in spirituall causes , compelling all consciences to christ , and persecuting the contrary with fire and sword . upon these rootes , how was , how is it possible but that such bitter fruits should grow of corruption of christianitie , persecution ( of such godly , who happily see more of christ then such rulers themselves ) their dominions and jurisdictions being overwhelmed with inforced dissimulation and hypocrisie , and ( where power of resistance ) with flames of civill combustion , as at this very day , he that runs may read and tremble at . peace . they adde further , that the princes of christendome setting their hornes upon the churches head , have been the cause of antichristian inventions , &c. truth . if they mean that the princes of europe giving their power and authoritie to the seven-headed and ten-horned beast of rome , have been the cause , &c. i confesse it to be one concurring cause : yet withall it must be remembred , that even before such princes set their hornes or authoritie upon the beasts head , even when they did ( as i may say but lend their hornes to the bishops , even then rose up many antichristian abominations . and though i confesse there is but small difference ( in some respect ) betweene the setting their hornes upon the priests heads ( whereby they are inabled immediately to push and gore whoever crosse their doctrine and practice ) and the lending of their hornes , that is , pushing and gori●g such themselves , as are declared by their bishops and priests to be hereticall , as was and is practised in some countries before and since the pope rose : yet i confidently affirme , that neither the lord iesus nor his first ordained ministers and churches ( gathered by such ministers ) did ever weare , or crave the helpe of such hornes in spirituall and christian affaires : the spirituall power of the lord iesus in the hands of his true ministers and churches ( according to balaams prophesie num. . ) is the horne of that vnicorne or rhinocerot ( psal . ) which is the strongest horne in the world , in comparison of which the strongest hornes of the bulls of basan breake as sticks and historie●ells ●ells us how that vnicorne or one-horned beast the rhinocerot , tooke up a bull like a tennis ball , in the theater at rome before the emperour , according to that record of the post : quant●●s erat cornu cui pila taurus erat ? unto this spirituall power of the lord iesus , the soules and thoughts of the highest kings and emperours must subject , math. . & . cor. . & . chapters . chap. cxxv . peace . deare truth , you know the noyse is made from those prophecies , isa. . kings and queenes shall be nursing fathers , &c. and revel . . the kings of the earth shall bring their glory and honour to new ierusalem , &c. truth . i answer with that mournfull prophet , psal. . i see not that man , that prophet , that can tell us how long . how many excellent pen-men fight each against other with their pens ( like swords ) in the application of those prophecies of david , isa. ier. ezekiel , daniel , zacharie , iohn , when and how those prophecies shall be fulfilled ! secondly , when ever those prophecies are fulfilled , yet shall those kings not be heads , governours , and judges in ecclesiasticall or spirituall causes , but be themselves judged and ruled ( if within the church ) by the power of the lord jesus therein . hence saith isaiah , those kings and queenes shall lick the dust of thy feet , &c. peace . some will here aske , what may the magistrate then lawfully doe with his civill horne or power in matters of religion ? truth . his horne not being the horne of that vnicorne or rhinocerot , the power of the lord iesus in spirituall case● , his sword not the two-edged sword of the spirit , the word of god ( hanging not about the loines or side , but at the lips , and proceeding out of the mouth of his ministers ) but of an humane and civill nature and constitution , it must consequently be of a humane and civill operation , for who knowes not that operation followes constitution ? and therefore i shall end this passage with this consideration : the civill magistrate either respecteth that religion and worship which his conscience is perswaded is true , and upon which he ventures his soule : or else that and those which he is perswaded are false . concerning the first , if that which the magistrate believeth to be true , be true , i say he owes a threefold dutie unto it : first , approbation and countenance , a reverent esteeme and honorable testimonie , according to isa. . revel . . ) with a tender respect of truth , and the professours of it . secondly , personall submission of his owne soule to the power of the lord iesus in that spirituall government and kingdome , according to mat. . . cor. . thirdly , protection of such true professours of christ , whether apart , or met together , as also of their estates from violence and injurie , according to rom. . now secondly , if it be a false religion ( unto which the civill magistrate dare not adjoyne , yet ) he owes , first permission ( for approbation he owes not to what is evill ) and this according to matthew . . for publike peace and quiet sake . secondly , he owes protection to the persons of his subjects , ( though of a false worship ) that no injurie be offered either to the persons or goods of any , rom. . peace . deare truth , in this head concerning the magistrates power in worship , you have examined what is affirmed : that the magistrate may doe in point of worship , there remaines a second ; to wit , that which they say the magistrate may not doe in worship . they say , the magistrate may not bring in set formes of prayer● nor secondly , bring in significant ceremonies : nor thirdly , not governe and rule the acts of worship in the church of god , for which they bring an excellent similitude of a prince or magistrate in a ship , where he hath no governing power over the actions of the mariners : and secondly , that excellent propheci● concerning christ iesus , that his government should be upon his shoulders , isa. . , . truth . unto all this i willingly subscribe : yet can i not passe by a most injurious and unequall practice toward the civill magistrate : ceremonies , holy dayes , common prayer , and what ever else dislikes their consciences , that the magistrate must not bring in : others againe as learned , as godly , as wise , have conceived the magistrate may approve or permit these in the church , and all men are bound in obedience to obey him . how shal the magistrates conscience be herein ( between both ) torn and distracted , if indeed the power either of establishing or abolishing in church matters bee committed to him ? secondly , me thinkes in this case they deale with the civill magistrate as the souldiers dealt with the lord iesus : first they take off his owne clothes , and put upon him a purple robe , plat a crowne of thornes on his head , bow the knee , and salute him by the name of king of the iewes . they tell him that he is the keeper of both tables , he must see the church doe her duty , he must establish the true church , true ministry , true ordinances , he must keepe her in this purity . againe , hee must abolish superstition , and punish false churches , false ministers , even to banishment , and death . thus indeed doe they make the blood run downe the head of the civill magistrate , from the thorny vexation of that power which sometimes they crowne him with ( whence in great states , kingdoms or monarchies , necessarily arise delegations of that spirituall power , high commissions ) &c. anon againe they take off this purple robe , put him into his own clothes , and tell him that he hath no power to command what is against their conscience . they cannot conforme to a set form of prayer , nor to ceremonies , nor holy dayes , &c. although the civill magistrate ( that most pious prince edw . ● and his famous bishops ( afterwards burnt for christ ) were of another conscience● which of these two consciences shall stand , if either magistrate must put forth his civill power in these cases , the strongest arme of flesh and most conquering bloody sword of steele can alone decide the question . i confesse it is most true , that no magistrate ( as no other superiour ) is to be obeyed in any matter displeasing to god : yet , when in matters of worship we ascribe the absolute headship and government to the magistrate , ( as to keepe the church pute , and force her to her duty , ministers and people ) and yet take unto our selves power to judge what is right in our owne eyes , and to judge the magistrate in and for those very things , wherein we confesse he hath power to see us doe our duty , and therefore consequently must judge what our duty is : what is this but to play with magistrates , with the soules of men , with heaven , with god , with christ iesus ? &c. chap. cxxvi . peace . passe on ( holy truth ) to that similitude whereby they illustrate that negative assertion : the prince in the ship ( say they ) is governour over the bodies of all in the ship , but hee hath no power to governe the ship or the mariners in the actions of it : if the pilot manifestly erre in his action , the prince may reprove him , ( and so say they may any passenger ) if hee offend against the life or goods of any , the prince may in due time and place punish him , which no private person may . truth . although ( deare peace ) wee both agree that civill powers may not injoyne such devices , no nor inforce on any gods institutions , since christ iesus his comming : yet for further illustration i shall propose some quaeries concerning the civill magistrates passing in the ship of the church , wherein christ iesus hath appointed his ministers and officers as governours and pilots , &c. if in a ship at sea , wherein the governour or pilot of a ship undertakes to carry the ship to such a port , the civill magistrate ( suppose a king or emperour ) shall command the master such and such a course , to steere upon such or such a point , which the master knowes is not their course , and which if they steere he shall never bring the ship to that port or harbour : what shall the master doe ? surely all men will say , the master of the ship or pilot is to present reasons and arguments from his mariners art ( if the prince bee capable of them ) or else in humble and submissive manner to perswade the prince not to interrupt them in their course and duty properly belonging to them , to wit , governing of the ship , steering of the course , &c. if the master of the ship command the mariners thus and thus , in cunning the ship , managing the ●elme , trimming the saile , and the prince command the mariners a different or contrary course , who is to be obeyed ? it is confest that the mariners may lawfully disobey the prince , and obey the governour of the ship in the actions of the ship . thirdly , what if the prince have as much skill ( which is rare ) as the pilot himselfe ? i conceive it will be answered , that the master of the ship and pilot , in what concernes the ship , are chiefe and above ( in respect of their office ) the prince himselfe , and their commands ought to be attended by all the mariners : unlesse it bee in manifest errour , wherein t is granted any passenger may reprove the pilot. fourthly , i aske if the prince and his attendants be unskilfull in the ships affaires , whether every sayler and mariner , the youngest and lowest , be not ( so farre as concernes the ship ) to be preferred before the princes followers , and the prince himselfe ? and their counsell and advice more to be attended to , and their service more to bee desired and respected , and the prince to bee requested to stand by and let the businesse alone in their hands . fifthly , in case a wilfull king and his attendants , out of opinion of their skill , or wilfulnesse of passion , would so steere the course , trim sayle , &c. as that in the judgement of the master and seamen the ship and lives shall bee indangered : whether ( in case humble perswasions prevaile not ) ought not the ships company to refuse to act in such a course , yea and ( in case power be in their hands ) resist and suppresse these dangerous practices of the prince and his followers , and so save the ship ? lastly , suppose the master out of base feare and cowardise , or covetous desire of reward , shall yeeld to gratifie the minde of the prince , contrary to the rules of art and experience , &c. and the ship come in danger , and perish , and the prince with it : if the master get to shore , whether may he not be justly questioned , yea and suffer as guilty of the princes death , and those that perished with him ? these cases are cleare , wherein according to this similitude , the prince ought not to governe and rule the actions of the ship , but such whose office and charge and skill it is . the result of all is this : the church of christ is the ship , wherein the prince ( if a member , for otherwise the case is altred ) is a passenger . in this ship the officers and governours , such as are appointed by the lord jesus , they are the chiefe , and ( in those respects ) above the prince himselfe , and are to bee obeyed and submitted to in their works and administrations , even before the prince himselfe . in this respect every christian in the church , man or woman ( if of more knowledge and grace of christ● ought to be of higher esteeme ( concerning religion and christianity ) then all the princes in the world , who have either none or lesse grace or knowledge of christ : although in civill things all civill reverence , honour and obedience ought to be yeelded by all men . therefore , if in matters of religion the king command what is contrary to christs rule ( though according to his perswasion and conscience ) who sees not that ( according to the similitude ) he ought not to be obeyed ? yea , and ( in case ) boldly with spirituall force and power he ought to be resisted : and if any officer of the church of christ shall out of basenesse yeeld to the command of the prince , to the danger of the church , and soules committed to his charge , the soules that perish ( notwithstanding the princes command ) shall be laid to his charge . if so then , i rejoyne thus : how agree these truths of this similitude with those former positions , viz. that the civill magistrate is keeper of both tables , that he is to see the church doe her duty . that he ought to establish the true religion , suppresse and punish the false , and so consequently must discerne , judge and determine what the true gathering and governing of the church is ; what the dutie of every minister of christ is ; what the true ordinances are , and what the true administrations of them ; and where men faile , correct , punish , and reforme by the civill sword : i desire it may be answered in the feare and presence of him whose eyes are as a flame of fire , if this be not ( according to the similitude , though contrary to their scope in proposing of it ) to be governour of the ship of the church , to see the master , pilot , and mariners do their duty , in setting the course , steering the ship , trimming the sailes , keeping the watch , &c. and where they faile , to punish them ; and therefore by undeniable consequence , to judge and determine what their duties are , when they doe right , and when they doe wrong : and this not only in manifest errour , ( for then they say every passenger may reprove ) but in their ordinary course and practice . the similitude of a physitian obeying the prince in the body politick ; but prescribing to the prince concerning the princes body , wherein the prince unlesse the physitian manifestly erre ) is to be obedient to the physitian , and not to be iudge of the physitian in his art , but to be ruled and judged ( as touching the state of his body ) by the physitian : i say this similitude and many others suiting with the former of a ship , might be alleadged to prove the distinction of the civill and spirituall estate , and that according to the rule of the lord iesus in the gospel , the civill magistrate is only to attend the calling of the civill magistracie , concerning the bodies and goods of the subjects , and is himselfe ( if a member of the church and within ) subject to the power of the lord iesus therein , as any member of the church is , cor. . chap. cxxvii . peace . deare truth , you have uprightly and aptly untied the knots of that head , let me present you with the head , which is concerning the magistrates power in the censures of the church . first ( say they ) he hath no power to execute or to substitute any civill officer to execute any church censure , under the notion of civill or ●cclesiasticall men . secondly , though a magistrate may immediately civilly censure such an offender , whose secret sinnes are made manifest by their casting out , to be injurious to the good of the state ; yet such offences of excommunicate persons , which manifestly hurt not the good of the state , he ought not to proceed against them , sooner or later , untill the church hath made her complaint to him , and given in their just reasons for helpe from them : for to give libertie to magistrates without exception to punish all excommunicate persons within so many moneths , may prove injurious to the person who needs , to the church who may desire , & to god who cals for longer indulgence from the hands of thē . thirdly , for persons not excommunicate , the magistrate hath no power in mediately to censure such offences of church members by the power of the sword , but onely for such as doe immediately hurt the peace of the state : because the proper end of civill government being the preservation of the peace and welfare of the state , they ought not to breake downe those bounds , and so to censure immediately for such sins which hurt not their peace . hence , first , magistrates have no power to censure for secret sinnes , as deadnesse , unbeleefe , because they are secret , and not yet come forth immediately to hurt the peace of the state ; we say immediately , for every sinne , even originall sinne , remotely hurts the civill state. secondly , hence they have no power to censure for such private sinnes in church members , which being not hainous may be best healed in a private way by the churches themselves . for that which may be best healed by the church , and yet is prosecuted by the state , may make a deeper wound and greater rent in the peace both of church and state : the magistrates also being members of the church , are bound to the rule of christ , viz. not to produce any thing in publike against a brother , which may bee best healed in a private way . now we call that private , first , which is only remaining in families , not knowne of oothers : and therefore a magistrate to heare and prosecute the complaint of children against their parents , servants against masters , wives against their husbands , without acquainting the church first , transgresseth the rule of christ. secondly , that which is between members of the same church or of divers churches : for , it was a double fault of the corinthians ( cor. . ) first to goe to law , secondly to doe it before an infidell , seeing the church was able to judge of such kinde of differences by some arbitratours among themselves : so that the magistrates should referre the differences of church members to private healing , and try that way first : by meanes whereof the churches should be free from much scandall , and the state from much trouble , and the hearts of the godly from much griefe in beholding such breaches . thirdly , such offences which the conscience of a brother dealing with another privately , dares not as yet publish openly , comming to the notice of the magistrate accidentally , he ought not to make publique as yet , nor to require the grand jurie to present the same , no more then the other private brother , who is dealing with him , untill hee see some issue of the private way . thirdly , hence they have no power to put any to an oath ex officio , to accuse themselves , or the brethren , in case either criminis suspecti , or praetensi , because this preserves not , but hurts many wayes the peace of the state , and abuseth the ordinance of an oath , which is ordained to end controversies , not to begin them , heb. . . fourthly , hence they have no power to censure any for such offences as breake either no civill law of god , or law of the state published according to it , for the peace of the state being preserved by wholesome laws , when they are not hurt , the peace is not hurt . truth . in this passage ( as i said before ) i observe how weakly and partially they deale with the soules of magistrates in telling them they are the guardians of both tables , must see the church doe her duty , punish , &c. and yet in this passage the elders or ministers of the churches not only sit iudges over the magistrates actions in church affaires , but in civill also , straitning and inlarging his commission according to the particular interests of their owne ends or ( at the best ) their consc●ences . i grant the word of the lord is the only rule , light and lanthorn , in all cases concerning god or man : and that the ministers of the gospell are to teach this way , hold out this lanthorne unto the feete of all men : but to give such an absolute power in spirituall things to the civill magistrate , and yet after their owne ends or consciences to abridge it , is but the former sporting with holy things , and to walk in contradictions , as before i noted . many of the particulars , i acknowledge true , where the magistrate is a member of the church : yet some passages call for explication , and some for observation . first , in that they say , the civill magistrate ought not to proceed against the offences of an excommunicate person , which manifestly hurt not the good of the state , untill the church hath made her complaint for helpe from them . i observe things : first , a cleare grant , that when the church complayneth for helpe , then the magistrate may punish such offences as hurt not the good of the state : and yet in a few lines after , they say , the magistrates have no power to censure such offences of church members by the power of the civill sword , but only such , as doe immediately hurt the peace of the civill state ; and they adde the reason , because the proper end of the civill government , being the preservation of the peace and welfare of the state , they ought not to breake downe those bounds , and so to censure immediately for such sinnes which hurt not their peace . and in the last place , they acknowledge the magistrate hath no power to punish any , for any such offences as breake no civill law of god , or law of the state , published according to it : for the peace of the state , ( say they ) being preserved by wholesome lawes , when they are not hurt , the peace is not hurt . chap. cxxviii . peace . deare truth , here are excellent confessions unto which both truth and grace may gladly assent : but what is your second observation from hence ? truth . i observe secondly , what a deepe charge of weaknes is layd upon the church of christ , the lawes , government and officers thereof , and consequently upon the lord iesus himselfe : to wit , that the church is not enabled with all the power of christ , to censure sufficiently an offendour ( on whom yet they have executed the deepest censure in the world , to wit , cutting off from christ , shutting out of heaven , casting to the divell ) which offendours crime reacheth not to hurt the good of the civill state , but that she is forced to make complaint to the civill state , and the officers thereof , for their helpe . o let not this be tole in gath , nor heard in ashkalon ! and o! how dimme must needs that eye be , which is blood shot , with that blo●dy and cruell tenent of persecution for cause of conscience ? peace . but what should be meant by this passage ? viz. that they cannot give liberty to the magistrate to punish without exception all excommunicate persons , within so many months . truth . it may be this hath reference to a law made formerly in new england , that if an excommunicate person repented not within ( as i have heard ) three months after sentence of excommunication , then the civill magistrate might proceed with him . these worthy men see cause to question this law upon good reasons rendred , though it appears not by their words that they wholly condemne it , only they desire a longer time , implying that after some longer time the magistrate may proceed : and indeed i see not , but according to such principles , if the magistrate himselfe should be cast out , he ought to be proceeded against by the civill state , and consequently deposed and punished ( as the pope teacheth ) yea though happily he had not offended against either bodies or goods of any subject . thirdly , from this true confession that the magistrate ought not to punish for many sinnes above mentioned : i observe how they crosse the plea which commonly they bring for the magistrates punishing of false doctrines , heretiques , &c. [ viz. rom. . the magistrate is to punish them that doe evill : ] and when it is answered , true , evill against the second table , which is there onely spoken of , and against the bodies and goods of the subject , which are the proper object of the civill magistrate , ( as they confesse : ) it is replied , why is not idolatry sinne ? heresie sinne ? schisme and false worship sinne ? yet heere in this passage many evils , many sins , even of parents against their children , masters against their servants , husbands against their wives , the magistrate ought not to meddle with . fourthly , i dare not assent to that assertion , that even originall sinne remotely hurts the civill state. t is true , some doe , as inclinations to murther , theft , whoredome , slander , disobedience to parents and magistrates : but blindnes of minds , hardnes of heart , inclination to choose or worship this or that god , this or that christ , beside the true , these hurt not remotely the civill state , as not concerning it , but the spirituall . peace . let me ( in the last place ) remind you of their charge against the magistrate , and which will necessarily turne to my wrong and prejudice : they say , the magistrate in hearing and prosecuting the complaints of children against their parents , of servants against their masters , of wives against their husbands , without acquainting the church first , transgresseth the rule of christ. truth . sweet peace , they that pretend to be thy dearest friends , will prove thy bitter enemies . first , i ask for one rule out of the testament of the lord iesus , to prove this deepe charge and accusation against the civill magistrate ? secondly , this is built upon a supposition of what rarely falls out in the world , to wit , that there must necessarily be a true church of christ ( in every lawfull state ) unto whom these complaints must goe : whereas how many thousand common-weales have been and are , where the name of christ hath not ( or not truly ) been founded . thirdly , the magistrates office ( according to their own grant ) properly respecting the bodies and goods of their subjects , and the whole body of the common-weale being made up of families ( as the members constituting that body ) i see not how ( according to the rule of christ ( rom. ) the magistrate may refuse to heare and helpe the just complaints of any such petitioners , children , wives , and servants , against oppression , &c. peace . i have long observed that such as have been ready to ascribe to the civill magistrate and his sword more then god hath ascribed , have also been most ready to cut off the skirts , and ( in case of his inclining to another conscience then their owne ) to spoile him of the robe of that due authoritie with which it hath pleased god and the people to invest and cloath him . but i shall now present you with the . head : whose title is . chap. cxxix . what power magistrates have in publike assemblies of churches . first ( say they ) the churches have power to assemble and continue such assemblies for the performance of all gods ordinances , without or against the consent of the magistrate , renuente magistratu , because christians are commanded so to doe , matth. . . . . also because an angel from god commanded the apostles so to doe , acts . likewise from the practice of the apostles , who were not rebellious or seditious , yet they did so , act. . . . . act. . . further from the practice of the primitive church at jerusalem , who did meet , preach , pray , minister sacraments , censures , act. . . renuente magistratu . moreover from the exhortation to the hebrewes , . . not to forsake their assemblies , though it were in dangerous times , and if they might doe this under professed enemies , then we may much more under christian magistrates ; else we were worse under christian magistrates then heathen : therefore magistrates may not hinder them herein , as pharaoh did the people from sacrificing , for wrath will be upon the realme , and the king and his sons , ez●● . . secondly , it hath been a usurpation of forraigne countries and magistrates to take upon them to determine times and places of worship : rather let the churches be left herein to their inoffensive libertie . thirdly , concerning their power of synod assemblies : first in corrupt times , the magistrate desirous to make reformation of religion , may and should call those who are most fit in severall churches , to assemble together in a synod , to discusse and declare from the word of god , matters of doctrine and worship , and to helpe forward the reformation of the churches god : thus did iosiah . secondly , in the reformed times he ought to give libertie to the elders of severall churches to assemble themselves by their owne mutuall and voluntary agreement , at convenient times , as the meanes appointed by god , whereby he may mediately reform matters amisse in churches , which immediately he cannot nor ought not to doe . thirdly , those meetings for this end we conceive may be of two sorts . . monthly , of some of the elders and messengers of the churches . . annuall , of all the messengers and elders of the churches . first monthly of some : first , those members of churches which are neerest together , and so may most conveniently assemble together , may by mutuall agreement once in a moneth consult of such things as make for the good of the churches . secondly , the time of this meeting may be sometimes at one place , sometimes at another , upon the lecture day of every church where lectures are : and let the lecture that day be ended by eleven of the clock . thirdly , let the end of this assembly be to doe nothing by way of authoritie , but by way of councell , as the need of churches shall require . secondly annuall , of all the elders within our jurisdiction or others , whereto the churches may send once in the yeare to consult together for the publike welfare of all the churches . first , let the place be sometimes at one church , sometimes at another , as reasons for the present may require . secondly , let all the churches send their waighty questions and cases six weeks or a month before the set time , to the church where the assembly is to be held , and the officers thereof disperse them speedily to all the churches , that so they may have time to come prepared to the discussing of them . thirdly , let this assembly doe nothing by authoritie , but only by councell , in all cases which fall out , leaving the determination of all things to particular churches within themselves , who are to judge , and so to receive all doctrines and directions agreeing only with the word of god. the grounds of these assemblies . first , need of each others helpe , in regard of dayly emergent troubles , doubts , and controversies . secondly , love of each others fellowship . thirdly , of gods glory out of a publike spirit to seeke the welfare of the churches , as well as their owne , cor. . cor. . . fourthly , the great blessing and speciall presence of god upon such assemblies hitherto . fifthly , the good report the elders and brethren of churches shall have hereby , by whose communion of love others shall know they are the disciples of christ. chap. cxxx . truth . i may well compare this passage to a double picture : on the first part or side of it a most faire and beautifull countenance of the pure and holy word of god : on the later side or part , a most sowre and uncomely deformed looke of a meere humane invention . concerning the former , they prove the true and unquestionable power and priviledge of the churches of christ to assemble and practise all the holy ordinances of god , without or against the consent of the magistrate . their arguments from christs and the angels voyce , from the apostles and churches practice , i desire may take 〈◊〉 impression written by the point of a diamond , the finger of gods spirit , in all hearts whom it may concerne . this libertie of the churches of christ he inlargeth and amplifieth so far , that he calls it an usurpation of some magistrates to determine the time and place of worship : and say , that rather the churches should be left to their inoffensive libertie . upon which grant i must renew my former quaerie , whether this be not to walke in c●ntradictions , to hold with light , yet walke in darknes ? for how can they say the magistrate is appointed by god and christ the guardian of the christian church and worship , bound to set up the true church , ministrie , and ordinances , to see the church doe her duty , that is , to force her to it by the civill sword : bound to suppresse the false church , ministrie and ordinances , and therefore consequently , to judge and determine which is the true church , which is the false , and what is the duty of the church officers and members of it , and what not : and yet ( say they ) the churches must assemble , and practice all ordinances , without his consent , yea against it : yea and he hath not so much power as to judge what is a convenient time and place for the churches to assemble in ; which if he should doe , he should be an usurper , and should abridge the church of her inoffensive libertie . as if the master or governour of a ship had power to judge who were true and fit officers , mariners &c. for the managing of the ship , and were bound to see them each performe his duty , and to force them thereunto , and yet he should be an usurper if hee should abridge them of meeting and managing the vessel at their pleasure , when they please , and how they please , without and against his consent : certainly if a physician have power to judge the d●sease of his patient , and what course of physicke he must use , can he bee counted an usurper unlesse the patient might take what physicke himselfe pleased , day or night , summer or winter , at home in his chamber , or abroad in the aire ? secondly , by their grant in this passage that gods people may thus assemble and practice ordinances without and against the consent of the magistrate . i●infer , then also may they become a church , constitute and gather without or against the consent of the magistrate : therefore may the messengers of christ , preach and baptise , that is , make disciples and wash them into the true profession of christianity according to the commission , though the magistrate determine and publikly declare , such ministers , such baptismes , such churches to be hereticall . thirdly , it may here be questioned what power is now given to the civill magistrate in church matters and spirituall affairs ? if it be answered that although gods people may doe thus against the magistrates consent , yet others may not . i answer ( as before ) who sees not herein partiality to themselves : gods people must enjoy their liberty of conscience , and not be forced ; but all the subjects in a kingdome or monarchie , or the whole world beside , must be compelled by the power of the civill sword to assemble thus and thus . secondly , i demand who shall judge whether they are gods people or no , for they say whether the magistrate consent or consent not , that is judge so or not , they ought to goe on in the ordinances renuente magistratu ? how agrees this with their former and generall assertion , that the civill magistrate must set up the christian church and worship , therefore by their owne grant he must judge the godly themselves , he must discerne who are fit matter for the house of god , living stones , and what unfit matter , trash and rubbish ? those worthy men , the authours of these positions , and others of their judgement have cause to examine their soules with feare and trembling in the presence of god upon this intergatory , viz. whether or no this be not the bottome and root of the matter : if they could have the same supply of maintenance without the helpe of the civill sword , or were perswaded to live upon the voluntary contribution of poore saints , or their owne labour , as the lord iesus and his first messengers did : i say , if this lay not in the bottom , whether or no they could not be willingly shut of the civill power , and left only to their inoffensive liberties ? i could also put a sad quaerie to the consciences of some , viz. what should be the reason why in their native country where the magistrate consented not , they forbore to practice such ordinances as now they doe and intended to doe , so soone as they got into another place where they might set up magistrates of their owne , and a civill sword , &c. how much is it to be feared that in case their magistracie should alter , or their persons be cast under a magistracie prohibiting their practice , whether they would then maintaine their separate meetings without and against the consent of the magistrate , renuente magistratu ? lastly , it may be questioned how it comes to passe that in pleading for the churches liberty more now under the christian magistrate , since the christians tooke that liberty in dangerous times under the heathen , why he quotes to prove such liberty , pharaohs hindring the israelites from worship , and ezra . . artaxerxes his feare of wrath upon the realme ? are not all their hopes and arguments built upon the christian magistrate , whom ( say they ) the first christians wanted , and yet do they scare the christian magistrate ( whom they account the governour of the church ) with pharaoh and artaxerxes that knew not god , expecting that the christian magistrate should act and command no more in gods worship then they ? but what can those instances of pharaohs evill in hindring the israelites worshipping of god , and artaxerxes giving liberty to israel to worship god , and build the temple , what can they prove but a duty in all p●●ces and civill magistrates to take off the yoake of bondage , which commonly they lay on the necks of the soules of their subjects in matters of conscience and religion ? chap. cxxxi . peace . it is plausible , but not reasonable that gods people should ( considering the drift of these positions ) expect more liberty under a christian then under a heathen magistrate : have gods people more liberty to breake the command of a christian then an heathen governour ? and so to set up christs church and ordinances after their owne conscience against his consent more then against the consent of an heathen or unbeleeving magistrate ? what is become of all the great expectation what a christian magistrate may and ought to doe in establishing the church , in reforming the church , and in punishing the contrary ? 't is true ( say men ) in christs time and in the time of the first ministers and churches there were no christian magistrates , and therefore in that case , it was in vaine for christians to seeke unto the heathen magistrates to governe the church , suppresse hereticks , &c. but now we enjoy christian magistrates , &c. truth . all reason and religion would now expect more submission therefore ( in matters concerning christ ) to a christian magistrate , then to a pagan or antichristian rule●● but ( deare peace ) the day will discover , the fire will trie , cor. . what is but wood , hay , and stubble , though built ( in mens upright intention ) on that foundation iesus christ. but ( to winde up all ) as it is most true that magistracy in generall is of god ( rom. . ) for the preservation of mankinde in civill order and peace , ( the world otherwise would bee like the sea , wherein men● like fishes would hunt and devoure each other , and the greater devour the lesse : ) so also it is true , that magistracy in speciall for the severall kindes of it is of man , . pet. . . now what kinde of magistrate soever the people shall agree to set up , whether he receive christianity before he be set in office , or whether he receive christianity after , hee receives no more power of magistracy , then a magistrate that hath received no christianity . for neither of them both can receive more , then the commonweal , the body of people and civill state , as men , communicate unto them , and betrust with them . all lawfull magistrates in the world , both before the comming of christ iesus , and since , ( excepting those unparaleld typicall magistrates of the church of israel ) are but derivatives and agents immediately derived and employed as eyes and hands , serving for the good of the whole : hence they have and can have no more power , then fundamentally lies in the bodies or fountaines themselves , which power , might , or authority , is not religious , christian , &c. but naturall , humane and civill . and hence it is true , that a christian captaine , christian , merchant . physitian , lawyer , pilot , father , master , and ( so consequently ) magistra●e , &c. is no more a captaine , merchant , physitian , lawyer , pilot , father , master , magistrate , &c. then a captaine , marchant , &c. of any other conscience or religion . t is true , christianity teacheth all these to act in their severall callings , to an higher ultimate end , from higher principles , in a more heavenly and spirituall manner , &c. chap. cxxxii . peace . o that thy light and brightnes ( deare truth ) might shine to the darke world in this particular : let it not therefore be grievous , if i request a little further illustration of it . truth . in his season god will glorifie himselfe in all his truths : but to gratifie thy desire , thus : a pagan or antichristian pilot may be as skilfull to carry the ship to its desired port , as any christian mariner or pilot in the world , and may performe that worke with as much safety and speed : yet have they not command over the soules and consciences of their passengers or mariners under them , although they may justly see to the labour of the one , and the civill behaviour of all in the ship : a christian pilot he performes the same worke , ( as likewise doth the metaphoricall pilot in the ship of the commonweale ) from a principle of knowledge and experience : but more then this , he acts from a roote of the feare of god and love to mankind , in his whole course . secondly , his aime is more to glorifie god then to gaine his pay , or make his voyage . thirdly , he walkes heavenly with men , and god , in a constant observation of gods hand in stormes , calmes , &c. so th●t the thread of navigation being equally spun by a believing or unbelieving pilot , yet is it drawn over with the gold of godlines and christianitie by a christian pilot , while he is holy in all manner of christianitie , pet. . but lastly , the christian pilots power over the soules and consciences of his sailers and passengers is not greater then that of the antichristian , otherwise then he can subdue the soules of any by the two-edged sword of the spirit , the word of god , and by his holy demeanour in his place , &c. peace . i shall present you with no other consideratioon in this first part of the picture , but this only : although the tearme heathen is most commonly appropriated to the wilde naked americans , &c. yet these worthy men justly apply it even to the civilized romanes , &c. and consequently must it be applied to the most civilized antichristians , who are not the church and people of god in christ. truth . the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in the hebrew , and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in the greeke , signifie no more then the gentiles or nations of the earth , which were without and not within , the true typicall nationall church of the iewes before christ , and since his comming , the gentiles or nations of the world , who are without that one holy nation of the christian israel the church gathered unto christ iesus in particular and distinct congregations all the world over . translatours promiscuously render the words gentiles , heathens , nations : whence it is evident that even such as professe the name of christ in an unregenerate and impenitent estate , whether papist or protestant are yet without , that is heathen , gentiles or of the nations . chap. cxxxiii . peace . deare truth , it is now time to cast your eye on the second part of this head or picture uncomely and deformed . truth . it containes two sorts of religious meetings or assemblies . first , more extraordinary and occasionall , for which he quotes the practice of iosiah . an. iosiah was in the type , so are not now the severall governours of commonweales , kings or governours of the church or israel , whose state i have proved to be a none-such , and not to bee parallel'd but in the antitype the particular church of christ , where christ iesus alone sits king in his owne most holy government . secondly , they propound meetings or assemblings ordinary stated and constant , yearly and monthly unto which the civill magistrate should give liberty . for these meetings they propound plausible arguments from the necessity of them from christian fellowship from gods glory , from the experience of the benefit of them , and from the good report of them , as also those two scriptures , cor. . . cor. . . to these i answer , if they intend that the civill magistrate should permit liberty to the free and voluntary spirituall meetings of their subjects , i shall subscribe unto them ; but if they intend that the magistrate should give liberty only unto themselves , and not to the rest of their subjects , that is to desire their owne soules only to be free , and all other soules of their subjects to be kept in bondage . secondly , if they intend that the magistrate should inforce all the elders of such churches under their iurisdiction , to keepe correspondencie with them in such meetings , then i say ( as before ) it is to cause him to give libertie with a partiall hand , and unequall ballance : for thus i argue . if the civill state and civill officers be of their religion and conscience , it is not proper for them to give libertie or freedome , but to give honourable testimonie and approbation , and their own personall submission to the churches . but if the civill state and officers be of another conscience and worship , and shall be bound to grant permission and libertie to them , their consciences and meetings , and not to those of his own religion and conscience also , how will this appeare to be equall in the very eye of common peace and righteousnesse ? for those yearely and monthly meetings , as we find not any such in the first churches , so neither will those generall arguments from the plausible pretence of christian fellowship , gods glory , &c. prove such particular wayes of glorifying god , without some precept or president of such a kind . for those scriptures , cor. . . & cor. . . expressing the apostle paul his zeale for glorifying god , and his care for all the churches , it is cleere they concerne such as are indeed pauls successors , sent forth by christ iesus to preach and gather churches● but those scriptures concerne not the churches themselves , nor the pastours of the churches properly , least of all the civill state and commonwealth , neither of which ( the churches , the pastours , or commonwealth ) doe goe forth personally with that commission , matth. . to preach and baptize , that is , to gather churches unto christ. for as for the first , the churches are not ministers of the gospel : the angels or messengers of the churches , and the churches themselves were distinct , revel . & . as for the second , the pastours and elders of the church , their worke is not to gather churches , but to governe and feed them , acts . & pet. . as for the civill magistrate , it is a ministry indeed : ( magistrates are gods ministers , rom. . ) but it is of another nature , and therefore none of these , the churches of christ , the shepherds of those churches , nor the civill magistrate , succeeding the apostles or first messengers , these scriptures alleadged concerne not any of these to have care of all the churches . peace . deare truth , who can heare this word , but will presently cry out , who then may rightly challenge that commission , and that promise , math. . &c. truth . sweet peace , in due place and season , that question may be resolved ; but doubtles the true successours must precede or goe before the church , making disciples , and baptizing as the apostles did , who were neither the churches , nor the pastors and fixed teachers of them , but as they gathered , so had the care of the churches . chap. cxxxiv . peace . i cease to urge this further ; and , in the last place , marvell what should be the reason of that conclusion , viz. there is no power of determination in any of these meetings , but that all must be left to the particular determination of the churches . truth . at the meeting at ierusalem , when paul and barnabas and others were sent thither from the church of christ at antioch , the apostles and elders did not only consult and advise , but particularly determined the question which the church of antioch sent to them , about acts . and send their particular determinations or decrees to the churches afterward . so that if these assemblies were of the nature of that pattern or president ( as is generally pretended ) and had such a promise of the assistance and concurrence of the spirit , as that assembly had , they might then say as that assembly did , acts . it seemeth good to the holy spirit and to us : and should not leave particular determinations to the particular churches , in which sometimes are very few able guides and leaders . peace . but what should be the reason to perswade these worthy men to conceive the particular congregations or churches to be more fit and competent iudges in such high points , then an assembly of so excellent and choice persons , who must only consult and advise , & c. ? truth . doubtlesse there is a strong conviction in their soules of a professed promised presence of the lord iesus in the midst of his church gathered after his mind and will , more then unto such kind of assemblies , though consisting of far more able persons , even the flower and creame of all the churches . peace . it is generally conceived , that the promise of christs presence to the end of the world ( matth. . ) is made to the church . truth . there is doubtlesse a promise of christs presence in the midst of his church and congregation , matth. . but the promise of christs presence , matth. . cannot properly and immediately belong to the church constituted and gathered , but to such ministers or messengers of christ iesus , whom he is pleased to imploy to gather and constitute the church by converting and baptizing : unto which messengers ( if christ jesus will be pleased to send such forth ) that passage , acts . will be presidentiall . peace . the . generall head is this , viz. what power particular churches have particularly over magistrates . first ( say they ) they may censure any member ( though a magistrate ) if by sinne he deserve it . first , because magistrates must be subject to christ , but christ censures all offenders , cor. . . secondly , every brother must be subject to christs censure , mat. . , , . but magistrates are brethren , deut , . . thirdly , they may censure all within the church , i cor. . . but the magistrates are within the church , for they are either without , or within , or above the church : not the first , nor the last , for so christ is only above it . fourthly , the church hath a charge of all the soules of the members , and must give account thereof , heb. . . fifthly , christs censures are for the good of soules , i cor. . . but magistrates must not be denied any priviledge for their soules , for then they must lose a priviledge of christ by being magistrates . sixthly , in church priviledges christians are all one , gal. . . col. . . . magistrates may be censured for apparent and manifest sinne against any morall law of god , in their judiciall proceedings , or in the execution of their office . courts are not sanctuaries for sin ; and if for no sin , then not for such especially . first , because sinnes of magistrates in court are as hatefull to god. . and as much spoken against , isa. . . mic. . . thirdly , god hath no where granted such immunity to them . fourthly , what a brother may doe privately in case of private offence , that the church may doe publikely in case of publike scandall . but a private brother may admonish and reprove privately in case of any private offence , mat. . . luc. . . psal. . . lastly , civill magistracy doth not exempt any church from faithfull watchfulnesse over any member , nor deprive a church of her due power , not a church member of his due priviledge , which is to partake of every ordinance of god , needfull and requisite to their winning and salvation . erg● , chap. cxxxv . truth . these arguments to prove the magistrate subject ( even for sinne committed in judiciall proceeding ) i judge , like mount zion , immoveable , and every true christian that is a magistrate will judge so with mee : yet a quaerie or two will not be unseasonable . first , where they name the church in this whole passage , whether they meane the church without the ministry or governours of it , or with the elders and governours joyntly ? and if the latter , why name they not the governours at all , since that in all administrations of the church the duty lies not upon the body of the church , but firstly and properly upon the elders . it is true in case of the elders obstinacy in apparent sinne , the church hath power over him , having as much power to take down as to set up , col. . say to archippus , &c. yet in the ordinary dispensations and administrations of the ordinances , the ministers or elders thereof are first charged with duty , &c. hence first for the apostles , who converted , gathered & espoused the churches to christ , i question whether their power to edification was not a power over the churches , as many scriptures seem to imply . secondly , for the ordinary officers ordained for the ordinary and constant guiding , feeding , and governing the church , they were rulers , shepheards , bishops , or overseers , and to them was every letter and charge , commendation or reproofe directed , revel . . . acts . and that place by them quoted for the submission of the magistrates to the church , it mentions only submission to the rulers therof ; heb. . . those excellent men concealed not this out of ignorance , and therefore most certainly in a silent way confesse that their doctrine concerning the magistrates power in church causes would too g●osse , if they should not have named the whole church , and but silently implyed the governours of it : and is it not wonderfull in any sober eye , how the same persons ( magistrates ) can be exalted over the ministers and members , as being bound to establish , reforme , suppresse by the civill sword in punishing the body or goods , and yet for the same actions ( if the church and governours thereof so conceive ) be liable to a punishment ten thousand times more transcendent , to wit , excommunication , a punishment reaching to their soules and consciences , and eternall estate , and this not only for common sins , but for those actions which immediately concerne the execution of their civill office , in judiciall proceeding . peace . the prelates in q. elizabeths dayes , kept with more plainnesse to their principles , for acknowledging the queen to be supreme in all church causes , ( according to the title and power of henry the . her father , taken from the pope , and given to him by the parliament ) they professed that the queen was not a sheepe , but under christ the chiefe shepheard , and that the church had not power to excommunicate the queen . truth . therefore ( sweet peace ) it was esteemed capitall ( in that faithfull witnesse of so much truth as he saw , even unto death , mr. barrow ) to maintaine before the lords of the councell , that the queen herselfe was subject to the power of christ iesus in the church : which truth overthrew that other tenent , that the queene should be head and supreme in all church causes . peace . those bishops according to their principles ( though bad and false ) dealt plainly ( though cruelly ) with mr. barrow : but these authors , whose principles are the same with the bishops ( concerning the power of the magistrate in church affaires ) though they wave the title , and will not call them heads or governors ( which now in lighter times seems too grosse ) yet give they as much spirituall power and authoritie to the civill magistrates to the full , as ever the bishops gave unto them , although they yet also with the same breath lay all their honour in the dust , and make them to lick the dust of the feet of the churches , as it is prophesied , the kings and queens of the earth shall doe , when christ makes them nursing fathers , and nursing mothers , isa , . the truth is , christ jesus is honoured , when the civill magistrate a member of the church , punisheth any member or elder of the church with the civill sword , even to the death , for any crime against the civill state so deserving it ; for he beares not the sword in vain . and christ iesus is againe most highly honoured , when for apparent sinne in the magistrate , being a member of the church ( for otherwise they have not to meddle with him ) the elders with the church , admonish him and recover his soule , or if obstinate in sin , cast him forth of their spirituall and christian fellowship , which doubtlesse they could not doe , were the magistrate supreme governour under christ in ecclesiasticall or church causes , and so consequently the true heire and successour of the apostles . chap. cxxxvi . peace . the . head runs thus : viz. in what cases must churches proceed with magistrates in case of offence . we like it well , that churches be flower in proceeding to excommunication , as of all other , so of civill magistrates especially in point of their judiciall proceedings , unlesse it be in scandalous breach of a manifest law of god , and that after notorious evidence of the fact , and that after due seeking and waiting for satisfaction in a previous advertisement . and though each particular church in respect of the government of christ be independent and absolute within it selfe , yet where the common-weale consists of church members , it may be a point of christian wisedome to consider and consult with the court also , so far as any thing may seeme doubtfull to them in the magistrates case , which may be further cleered by intelligence given from them ; but otherwise we dare not leave it in the power of any church to forbear to proceed & agree upon that on earth , which they plainly see christ hath resolved in his word , and will ratifie in heaven . truth . if the scope of this head be to qualifie and adorne christian impartialitie and faithfulnes with christian wisdome and tendernesse , i honour and applaud such a christian motion : but whereas that case is put , which is no where found in the patterne of the first churches , nor suiting with the rule of christianitie , to wit , that the commonweale should consist of church members , which must be taken privatively , to wit , that none should be admitted members of the commonweale , but such as are first members of the church ( which must necessarily run the church upon that temptation to feele the pulse of the court concerning a delinquent magistrate , before they dare proceed ) i say let such practices be brought to the touchstone of the true frame of a civill commonweale , and the the true frame of the spirituall or christian commonweale , the church of christ , and it will be seen what wood , hay , and stubble of carnall policie and humane inventions in christs matters are put in place of the precious stones , gold and silver of the ordinances of the most high and only wise god. chap. cxxxvii . peace . deare truth , we are now arrived at their last head : the title is this , viz. their power in the liberties and priviledges of these churches . first , all magistrates ought to be chosen out of church-members , ezod . . . deut. . . prov. . . when the righteous rule , the people rejoyce . secondly , that all free men elected , be only church-members . . because if none but church members should rule , then others should not choose , because they may elect others beside church members . . from the patterne of israel , where none had power to choose but only israel , or such as were joyned to the people of god. . if it shall fall out , that in the court consisting of magistrates and deputies , there be a dissent between them which may hinder the common good , that they now returne for ending the same , to their first principles , which are the free men , and let them be consulted with . truth . in this head are branches : first concerning the choice of magistrates , that such ought to be chosen as are church members : for which is quoted , exod. . . dut. . . proverbs . . unto which i answer : it were to be wished , that since the point is so weighty , as concerning the pilots and steeresmen of kingdoms and nations , &c. on whose abilitie , care and faithfulnesse depends most commonly the peace and safety of the commonweales they fall in : i say it were to be wished that they had more fully explained what they intend by this affirmative , viz. magistrates ought to be chosen out of church members . for if they intend by this [ ought to be chosen ] a necessitie of concenience , viz. that for the greater advancement of common utilitie and rejoycing of the people , according to the place quoted ( prov. . . ) it were to be desired , prayed for , and peaceably endeavored , then i readily assent unto them . but if by this [ ought ] they intend such a necessitie as those scriptures quoted imply , viz. that people shall sin by choosing such for magistrates as are not members of churches ; as the israelites should have sinned , if they had not ( according to iethro's counsell , exod. . and according to the command of god , deut. . ) chosen their iudges and kings within themselves in israel : then i propose these necessary quaries . first whether those are not lawfull civill combinations , societies , and communions of men , in townes , cities , states or kingdoms , where no church of christ is resident , yea where his name was never yet heard of : i adde to this , that men of no small note , skilfull in the state of the world , acknowledge , that the world divided into parts , of that have never yet heard of the name of christ : if their civill polities and combinations be not lawfull , ( because they are not churches , and their magistrates church members ) then disorder , confusion , and all unrighteousnes is lawfull , and pleasing to god. secondly , whether in such states or commonweales , where a church or churches of christ are resident , such persons may not lawfully succeed to the crown or government , in whome the feare of god ( according to iethroes councell ) cannot be discerned , not are brethren of the church , according to deut. . ) but only are fitted with civill and morall abilities , to manage the civill affaires of the civill state. thirdly , since not many wise and noble are called , but the poores receive the gospel , as god hath chosen the poore of the world to be rich in faith , cor. jam. . whether it may not ordinarily come to passe , that there may not be found in a true church of christ ( which sometimes consisteth but of few persons ) persons fit to be either kings or governours , &c. whose civill office is no lesse difficult then the office of a doctor of physick , a master or pilot of a ship , or a captaine or commander of a band or army of men : for which services , the children of god may be no wayes qualified , though otherwise excellent for the feare of god , and the knowledge and grace of the lord iesus . . if magistrates ought ( that is , ought only ) to be chosen out of the church , i demand if they ought not also to be dethroned and deposed , when they cease to be of the church , either by voluntary departure from it , or by excommunication out of it , according to the bloody tenents and practice of some papists , with whom the protestants ( according to their principles ) although they seeme to abhor it , doe absolutely agree ? . therefore lastly , i ask if this be not to turne the world upside down , to turne , the world out of the world , to pluck up the roots and foundations of all common societie in the world ? to turne the garden and paradice of the church and saints into the field of the civill state of the world , and to reduce the world to the first chaos or confusion chap. cxxxviii . peace . deare truth , thou conquerest● and shalt triumph in season : but some will say , how answer you those scriptures alleadged ? truth . i have fully and at large declared the vast differences between that holy nation of typicall israel , and all other lands and countries , how unmatchable then and now , and never to be parallel'd , but by the true israel and particular churches of christ residing in all parts ( and under the severall civill governments ) of the world : in which churches , the israel of god , and kingdome of christ iesus , such only are to be chosen spirituall officers and governours , to manage his kingly power and authoritie in the church , as are ( according to the scriptures quoted , not pope , bishops , or civill powers , but ) from amongst themselves , brethren , fearing god , hating cove●ousnesse or filthy lucre , according to those golden rules given by the lord iesus , tim. . & tit. . the want of discerning this true parallel , between israel in the type then , and israel the antitype now , is that rock whereon ( through the lords righteous jealousie , punishing the world , and chastising his people ) thousands dash , and make wofull shipwrack . the second branch , viz. that all freemen elected be only church members , i have before shewne to be built on that saudy and dangerous ground of israels patterns : o that it may please the father of lights to discover this to all that fear his name i then would they not sin to save a kingdome , nor run into the lamentable breach of civill peace and order in the world , nor be guilty of forcing thousands to hypocrisie , in a state worship , nor of prophaning the holy name of god and christ , by putting their names and ordinances upon uncleane and unholy persons : nor of shedding the blood of such hereticks , &c. whom christ would have enjoy longer patience and permission untill the harvest : nor of the blood of the lord iesus himselfe , in his faithfull witnesses of truth : nor lastly , of the blood of so many hundred thousands slaughtred men , women , and children , by such uncivill and unchristian wars and combustions about the christian faith and religion . peace . deare truth : before we part , i aske your faithfull helpe once more , to or scriptures , which many alleadge , and yet we have not spoken of . truth . speake on ; here is some sand left in this our houre glasse of mercifull opportunitie : one graine of times inestimable sand is worth a golden mountaine ; let 's not lose it . peace . the first is that of the ninevites fast , commanded by the king of ninevie and his nobles , upon the preaching of ionah ; succeeded by gods mercifull answer in sparing of the citie ; and quoted with honorable approbation by the lord iesus christ , jonah . & math. . truth . i have before proved , that even iehosaphats fast ( he being king of that nationall church and people of israel ) could not possibly be a type or warrant for every king or magistrate in the world ( whose nations , countries or cities cannot be churches of god , now in the gospel , according to christ iesus : much lesse can this patterne of the king of ninevie and his nobles , be a ground for kings and magistrates now , to force all their subjects under them in the matters of worship . peace . it will be said , why did god thus answer them ? truth . gods mercy in hearing doth not prove an action right and according to rule . it pleased god to heare the israelites cry for flesh , and afterward for a king , given both in anger to them . it pleased god to heare a●abs prayer , yea and the prayer of the devils ( luc. . ) although their persons and prayers in themselves abominable . if it be said , why did christ approve this example ? i answer , the lord iesus christ did not approve the king of ninevies compelling all to worship , but the men of ninevies repentance at the preaching of ionah . peace . it will be said , what shall kings and magistrates now doe in the plagues of sword , famine , pestilence ? truth . kings and magistrates must be considered ( as formerly ) invested with no more power then the people betrust them with . but no people can betrust them with any spirituall power in matters of worship , but with a civill power belonging to their goods and bodies . . kings and magistrates must be considered as either godly or ungodly . if ungodly , his own and peoples duty is repentance , and reconciling of their persons unto god , before their sacrifice can be accepted . without repentance what have any to doe with the covenant or promise of god ? psal. . againe , if godly , they are to humble themselves , and beg mercles for themselves and people . secondly , upon this advantage & occasion , they are stir up their people ( as possibly they may ) to repentance : but not to force the consciences of people to worship . if it be said , what must be attended to in this example ? two things are most eminent in this example . first , the great worke of repentance , which god calls all men unto , upon the true preaching of his word . secondly , the nature of that true repentance whether legall or evangelicall : the people of ninevie turned from the violence that was in their hands : and confident i am , if this nation shall turne ( though but with a legall repentance ) from that violent persecuting or hunting each of other for religion sake , ( the greatest violence and hunting in the wildernesse of the whole world ) even as sodome and gomorrah upon a legall repentance , had continued untill christs day ; so consequently might england , london , &c. continue free from a generall destruction ( upon such a turning from their violence ) untill the heavens and the whole world be with fire consumed . peace . the second scripture is that speech of the lord christ , luc. . . he that hath not a sword , let him fell his coat , and buy one . truth . for the cleering of this scripture , i must propose and reconcile that seeming contrary command of the lord iesus to peter ( mat. . ) put up thy sword into his place , for all that take the sword , shall perish by it . in the former scripture ( luc. . ) it pleased the lord iesus , speaking of his present trouble , to compare his former sending forth of his disciples . without scrip , &c. with that present condition and triall comming upon them , wherein they should provide both scrip and sword , &c. yet now , first , when they tell him of two swords , he answers , it is enough : which shewes his former meaning was not literall , but figurative , foreshewing his present danger above his former . secondly , in the same case at the same time ( mat. ) commanding peter to put on his sword , he gives a threefold reason thereof . ( vers . . ) from the event of it : for all that take the sword , shall perish by it . the needlesnes of it : for with a word to his father , he could have legions of angels . the councell of god to be fulfilled in the scripture : thus it ought to be . peace . it is much questioned by some , what should be the meaning of christ iesus in that speech , all that take the sword , shall perish by the sword . truth . there is a threefold taking of the sword : first , by murtherous crueltie , either of private persons , or secondly , publike states or societies , in wrath or revenge each against other . secondly , a just and righteous taking of the sword in punishing offenders against the civill peace , either more personall , private and ordinary ; or more publike , oppressors , tyrants , ships , navies , &c. neither of these can it be imagined that christ iesus intended to peter . thirdly , there is therefore a . taking of the sword , forbidden to peter , that is , for christ and the gospels cause , when christ is in danger : which made peter strike , &c. peace . it seemes to some most contrary to all true reason , that christ iesus , 〈◊〉 it selfe , should not be defended . truth . the foolishnes of god is wiser then the wisedome of man. it is not the purpose of god , that the spirituall battailes of his son shall be fought by carnall weapons and persons . it is not his pleasure that the world shall flame on fire with civill combustions , for his sons sake . it is directly contrary to the nature of christ iesus , his saints and truths , that throats of men ( which is the highest contrarietie to civill converse ) should be torne out for his sake , who most delighted to converse with the greatest sinners . it is the councell of god , that his servants shall overcome by weapons , of a spirituall nature , revel . . . and that all that take the sword of steele , shall perish . lastly , it is the councell of god , that christ iesus shall shortly appeare a most glorious iudge and revenger against all his enemies , when the heavens and the earth shall 〈◊〉 before his most glorious presence . peace . i shall propose the last scripture much insisted on by many , for carnall weapons in spirituall cases , revel . . . the hornes which thou fawest upon the beast , these shall hate the whore , and shall make her desolate and naked , and shall eat her flesh , and shall burne her with fire . truth . not to controvert with some , whether or no the beast be yet risen and extant . nor secondly , whether either the beast , or the hornes , or the whore may be taken literally for any corporall beast or whore. or thirdly , whether these hornes be punctually and exactly kings . or fourthly , whether those hornes signifie those many kings , kingdomes , and governments , who have bowed down to the popes yoake , and have committed fornication with that great whore the church of rome . let this last be admitted ( which yet will cost some work to cleer against all opposites : ) yet , first , can the time be now cleerly demonstrated to be come , & c ? secondly , how will it be proved , that this ●atred of this wh●re shall be a true , chaste , christian hatred against antichristian whorish practices , & c ? thirdly , or rather that this hating and desolating and making naked and burning shall arise , not by way of an ordinance waranted by the institution of christ iesus , but by way of providence when ( as it useth to be with all whores and their lovers ) the church of rome and her great lovers shall fall out , and by the righteous vengeance of god upon her , drunke with the blood of saints or holy ones , these mighty fornicators shall turne their love into hatred , which hatred shall make her a poore desolate naked whore , torne and consumed , &c. peace . you know it is a great controversie how the kings of the earth shall thus deale with the whore in the chap. and yet so bewaile her in the chapter . truth . if we take it that these kings of the earth shall first hate , and plunder , and teare , and burne this whore , and yet afterward shall relent and bewaile their cruell dealing toward her : or else , that as some kings deale so terribly with her , yet others of those kings shall bewaile her . if either of these two answers stand , or a better be given , yet none of them can prove it lawfull for people to give power to their kings and magistrates thus to deale with them their subjects for their conscience ; nor for magistrates to assume a title more then the people betrust them with ; nor for one people out of conscience to god , and for christ his sake , thus to kill and slaughter and burne each other : however it may please the righteous judge , according to the famous types of gideous and iehosaphats battells , to permit in iustice , and to order in wisdome these mighty and mutuall slaughters each of other . peace . we have now ( deare truth ) through the gracious hand of god clambered up to the top of this our tedious discourse . truth . o 't is mercy unexpressible that either thou or i have had so long a breathing time , and that together ! peace . if english ground must yet be drunk with english blood , o where shall peace repose her wearied head and heavy heart ? truth . deare peace , if thou finde welcome , and the god of peace miraculously please to quench these all-devouring flames , yet where shall truth finde rest from cruell persecutions ? peace . oh , will not the authority of holy scriptures , the commands and declarations of the sonne of god , therein produced by thee , together with all the lamentable experiences of former and , present slaughters prevaile with the sons of men ( especially with the sons of peace ) to depart from the dens of lyons , and mountaines of leopards , and to put on the bowels ( if not of christianitie , yet ) of humanitie each to other ! truth . deare peace , habacacks fishes keep their constant bloody game of persecutions in the worlds mighty ocean ; the greater taking , plundring , swallowing up the lesser : o happy he whose portion is the god of iacob ! who hath nothing to lose under the sun , but hath a state , a house , an inheritance , a name , a crowne , a life , past all the plunderers , ravishers , murtherers reach and furie ! peace . but loe ! who 's here ? truth . our sister patience , whose desired company is as needfull as delightfull : 't is like the wolfe will send the scattered sheep in one : the common pirate gathers up the loose and scattered navie : the slaughter of the witnesses by that bloody beast unite the independents and presbyterians . the god of peace , the god of truth will shortly seale this truth , and confirme this witnes , and make it evident to the whole world , that the doctrine of persecution for cause of conscience , is most evidently and lamentably contrary to the doctrine of christ iesus the prince of peace . amen . finis . errata . page . line . for this , re●d that . p. . l. ult . his soule . p. . l. . read month , ●bid . r. person . p. . l. . r. turned off , or loosed from . p. . l. . for to , read doc . p. . l. . dele affirme . p. . l. . his perilous soule . p. . l. . r. or l. ult . answeres . p. . l. ● . b● closer . p. . l. . last p . l. . cut . l. . l ●●rme that justice . p. . l. . the lying . p . l. . road , or doe these p. . l. . r , the question . p. l. . remembers . p. . l. . immunitie . p. . l. . or christ. p. . l. . delt shall . p. . l. . the churches of god. . l. . not might not . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e the famous saying of a late king of bohemia . essay of religion . it is rarely seen that ever persons were pers●●●ed for their 〈…〉 notes for div a -e . reas. notes for div a -e truth and peace rarely and seldom meet . a great complaints of peace . persecutors seldom plead christ , but moses for their author . strife distinguished . . ungodly strife . . godly strife . a threefold dolefull cry . christs worship is his bed , cant. . . false worship therefore is a false bed . the cry of the soules under the altar . a cry of the whole earth . the wonderfull providēce of god in the writing of the arguments against persecution in milke . the answer writ in bloud . the first distinctiō discussed . desinition of persecution discussed . conscience will not be restrained from its own worship , nor constrained to another . a chaste soule in gods worship like a chast wife . the second distinction discussed● gods people may erre from the very fundamentals of visible worship . sorts of spirituall foundations 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the sixe foundations of the christian religion or worship . comming out of babell , not locall but mysticall . the great ignorance of gods people concerning the nature of the true church . mr. cotton & all the halfe seperates , halting between true & fals churches , and consequently , not yet clear in the fundamentall matter of a christiā church . the true ministrie a fundamentall . the new english ministers examined . common prayer cast off , & written against by the new-english . gods people have worshipped god with false worships . it pleaseth god sometimes , beyond his promise , to convey blessings & comfort to his , in false worships . fundamentals of christian worship not so easie and cleare . a notable speech of k. iames to a great non-conformist , turned persecuter . the . distinctiō discussed . what civill peace is . gods people must be nonconformitants to evill . the difference between spirituall and civill peace . the difference between the spirituall and civill state. the civil state , the spirituall estate , and the church of christ distinct in ephesus . the answerer too obscure in generalls . gods meekest servants use to be counted arrogant and impetuous . cases wherein gods people have been bold & zealous , yet not arrogant . christ jesus and his disciples teach publikely a new doctrine , fundamentally different from the religion professed . gods servants zealous and bold to the faces of the highest . gods people constantly immoveable to death . gods people ever maintained christ jesus the only lord and king to the conscience . that christ is king alone over conscience is the sum of all true preaching . gods people have see men the disturbers of civill state. gods word and people the occasion of tumults . the instances proposed carry a great shew of impe●●ousnesse , yet all are pure and peaceable . the true cause of tumults at the preaching of the word . a preposterous way of suppressing errours . light only can expell fogs and darknesse . persecutors oppresse both true and erroneous consciences . all persecutors of christ professe not to persecute him . all persecutors of christ , professe not to persecute him what is meant by hereticke in titus . the word hereticke generally mistaken . checks of conscience what is the first & second admonition . what the rejecting of the heretick was . corporall killing in the law , typing out spirituall killing by excommunication in the gospell . the third conclusiō discussed . sathans policie . the answerer granteth a toleration . patience to be used toward the opposite . the cariage of a soule sensible of mercy , toward other sinners in their blindnesse and opposition . the answerer cōfounds the churches in philippi and rome with the cities philippi and rome . difference between 〈◊〉 the church and the world. the church and civill scare confusedly made all one . persecutors have forgotten the blessednesse promised to the mercifull , math. . what persons are guilty of breach of civil peace the most peaceable wrongfully accused of peace-breaking . the examination of what is meant by the tares , and the command of the l. jesus to let them alone . the answerers fallacious exposition that tares signifie either persons , doctrines or practices . the answerer ba●ely affirming a most strange interpretation . sathans subtlet●e about the opening of scripture . toleration in rom. . considered . toleratiō of jew●sh ceremonies for a time upon some grounds in the jew●sh church , proves not toleration of popish and anti christian ceremonies in the christian church , although in the state. tares proved not to signifie hypocrites hence were the witnesses of christ 〈◊〉 and others in h. . his reigne called lo●lards ( as some say ) from 〈◊〉 , weeds known well enough , hen●e taken for signe of barrenesse : ius●lix 〈◊〉 & sterll●● do●●●an●u● a v●●a : others conceive they were so called from one lolla●d , &c. but all papis●s accounted them as tares because of their profession . * the false and counterfeit christians appeare as soon as the true and faithfull . hypocriticall christians . the tares cannot signifie hypocrites . two sorts of hypoc●ites : . in the church as iudas , st. ●o● m●g●● , and these must be to le●ated untill discovered , and no longer . . hypocrites in the world which a●e false christians , ●a●●e churches , & these the lord iesus wi● have let alone unto harvest . the field by most , generally , but falsely interpreted the church . the lord iesus the great teacher by parables , and the only expounder of them . the scope of the parable . fou●e sorts of ground or hearers of the word in the world and but one properly in the church , the rest seldome come or acciden●ally to hear the word in the church , which word ought to be ●itted for the feed●ng of the church or flocke : preaching for conversion is properly out of the church . the scope of the parable of the tares . the lord iesus in this ●arable of the ta●es gives direction and consolation to his servants . the tares proved properly to signifie antichristians . math. . mat. . gods kingdome on earth the visible church . the difference between the wheat & the tares , as also between these tares and all other . civill magistracie from the beginning of the world. offenders against the civill lawes not to be perpetually tolerated . nor offenders in the church of christ jesus to be su●●red . the great reapers are the angels . the tares to be tolerated the longest of any sinners . the danger of infection by these tares assoyled . lamentable experience hath proved this true of late in europe , and lamentably true in the sl●ughter of some hundred thousands of the english . the great & dreadfull harvest . the charge of christ jesus , let alone the tares , was not spoken to magistrates , ministers of the civill state , but to ministers of the gospel . the civill magistrate not so particularly spoken to as fathers and masters in the new testamēt , and why . eph. . . col. . . &c. a twofold state of christianity , the persecuted under the roman emperors , and the apostate ever since . christs messengers receive a threefold charge in that prohibition of christ , let them alone . gods people not to pray for ●h● present ruine and destruction of idolaters , although their persecutors , but for their peace and salvations . the word of god ●●ghtly de●ounced plucks up k●ng●●ms . gods ministers are 〈◊〉 to provoke 〈…〉 ●et . . . cor. . companying with 〈…〉 . cor. discussed . lawfull converse with idolaters in civill , but not in spirituall things . dangerous and ung●ounded zeale . m●●th . . . the se●●●● scripture controv●rted in this cause . christ jesus never directed his disciples to the civill magistrate for help in his cause . pauls appealing to caesar. civill magistrates never appointed by god , dfenders of the faith of jesus . every o●● is bound to put forth him selfe to his utmost power in gods businesse ; & wh●re it stops , the guilt will lie . christ could have easily been furnished with godly magistrates , if he had so appointed , gods israel earnest with god for in arme of flesh , which god gives in his anger , and takes away in his wrath . the punishment of blind pharises , though let alone , yet is greater then any corporall punishment in the world , in respects . the eye of the 〈◊〉 struck out is worse then for both right and left eye of the body to be 〈◊〉 out tenne thousand times . some soules incurable , whom not only corporall b●● spirituall phys●●ke can nothing availe . the bottom 〈…〉 blind ●all . soul killing the ch●efest murder . no magistrate can execute true justice in killing soule for soule , but christ jesus who by typicall death in the law , typed out spirituall in the gospel . a great mistake in most to conceive that dead men , that is , soules dead in sin may be infected by false doctrine . all naturall men being dead in sin , yet none die everlastingly but such as are thereunto ordained . the lord jesus hath not lest his church without spirituall antidotes and remedies against infection . the miserable bondage gods people live in . the kings and queens of england governours of the church . strange confusion in punishments . woe were it with the civill magistrate if he bloud of soules ( beside the ordinary care of the bo●ies ●●d goods ●f 〈…〉 ) sh●uld ●●ry 〈◊〉 him . the magistrates duties toward the church the sp●●se of christ. usurpers and true heires of the spirituall crowne of jesus . luke . . discussed . an excellent saying of persecutors themselves● the answerer when he should speake to toleration in the state , ●unnes to punishments in the church , which none can deny . if the civill magistrate be a christian , he is bound to be like christ in saving , not destroying mens bodies . the civill magistrate bound not to inflict nor to suffer any other to inflict violence , stripes , or any corporall punishment for evill against christ. revel . . . fire from heaven . what the fire from heaven is which the fals prophet bringeth downe . tim. . . . examined . a quaere what the answerer meanes by his unconverted christian in crete . the originall of christians . the answerer yet in the unconverted churches and worships . gods people sleepy in the matters of christs kingdome , cant. . . cor. . patience and ●eeknesse required in all that open christs mysteries . the civill sword may make a nation of hypocrites & antichristians , but not one christian . wonderfull changes of religion in england . englands changes in point of religion . the miserie of opposites against the truth . a difference between the true and false christ and christians . the worship of unbelieving unregenerate persons . the danger & mischiefe of a civill sword in soule matters , which makes the civill magistrate deeply guilty of all those evils which he aims to suppresse . that cannot be a true religion , which needs carnall weapons to uphold it . persecutors beget a perswasion of their crueltie in the hearts of the persecuted . antoninus pius his golden act . isa. . . mic. . . isa. . . concerning christs peace able kingdom discussed . mr. cottons excellent interpretation of those prophecies . his doctrine and practice condemned by that interpretation . spirituall and mysticall wolves . act. . . opened . what those wolves were act. . . charges directed to ministers of the spiritual kingdome , fasly applyed to the magistrates of the civill . no word of christ to the civill magistrate to feed his flock , but to his ministers , who ( if true ) have spirituall power sufficient against spirituall wolves . magistrates decline the name of head of the church , and yet practise the headship or government . the elect shall not be devoured . christ jesus furnisheth his shepherds with power sufficient to drive away wolves . tit. . . . opened . job . , . unmercifull and : bloody doctrine . john . . . cor. . . discussed . the difference of the civill & spirituall estate . civill weapons most improper in spirituall causes : fitly exemplified by that similitude , cor. . . spirituall weapons , only effectuall in spirituall & soule causes . civill weapons not only improper , but unnecessary in spirituall causes . no earthly kings or governours will be so served , as we pretend to serve the king of kings . psal. . the white troopers . spirituall ammunition . eph. . applied materiall and spirituall ●●htly joyned together . an alarme to civill or earthly rulers . concerning the civill rulers power in spirituall causes discust . rom. . speakes not at all of spirituall but civill affaires . the scope of rom . love to man , the duty of the whole second table . how love fulfilleth the law rom. so interpreted even by them that held persecution for conscience . calvins judgement of rom. . gods people loath to be found , yet proved persecutors . caelvin confesseth that the first table concerning gods worship , is not here in rom. . touched . beza upon rom. . paul writes not to the romane governors to defend the truth , and to punish hereticks . pauls appeale to caesar discussed . if paul had appealed to caesar in spirituall things , he had committed . evils . imperours than them selves if , christians , subject to the apostles and churches in spirituall things . lawfull appeales in civill things to civill magistrates . foure sorts of swords mentioned in the new testament . the civill sword. tribute , custome , &c. meerly civill recompences for civil work . magistrates called by god gods ministers . the spirituall ministery . the civill ministery or service . what is to b● understood b● evill , rom. . some give to the magistrate what is not his , and take from him that which is proper to him . toleration discussed . upon this point hath mr. john goodwin excellently of late discoursed . evill is always evill , yet permission of it may in case be good . deut. . two sorts of commands both by moses and christ. math . . . the permission of divorce in israel . usurie in a common-weale or civill state lawfully permitted . permission of the tares in the field of the world for a twofold good . of the good whe●e . of the whole world , ●he field it selfe . seducing teachers , either pagan , jewish or antichristian , may yet be obedient subjects to the civill lawes . scandalous livers against the civill state who they are . toleration . rev. . . . examined . christ ministers & churches have power sufficient from christ to suppresse balaam and iesabel seducing to false worship . the christian world hath swallowed up christianity . the second head of reasons against such persecution , viz. the profession of famous princes , k. james , steven of poland , and k. of bohemia . isa. . pet. . mr. cottons unequall dealing with princes . the answerer a knowledgeth a necessi●y of some tol●ration . christ jesus the deepest politician that ever was , and yet he commands a toleration of antichristians . the princes of the world seldome take put with christ. princes not persecuting are very rare . buchanans item to king iames. king iames his sayings against persecution . king steven of poland his speech against persecution . forcing of conscience is a soule rape . persecution for conscience , the launcet that letteth blood kings & kingdomes . all spirituall whores are bloody . the godly somotimes evill actors , and the ungodly good actors . poligamie , or the many wives of the fathers . davids advancing of gods worship against gods order . constantine and the good emperours are confest to have done more hurt to the name and crown of the lord jesus , then the persecuting neroes &c. the garden of the church and field of the world made all one by antichrististianisme . the language of persecuters , the wolves and hunters of the world. christs lilies may flourish in his church , notwithstanding the abundance of weeds ( in the world ) permitted . the persecution of queen elizabeth and king iames compared together . in his opening of the . viols , in print . mr. cotton confesseth that queen elizabeth her persecuting the papists , had almost ruined the english nation . the wars betweene the papists and the protestants . eventus omnis 〈…〉 . the wars and successe of the walden●●an witnesses against three popes and their popish armies . gods people victorious overcommers , and with what weapons . the third head of arguments from ancient and later writers . the christian church doth not persecute , but is persecuted . persecuting 〈◊〉 cannot be christs churches . the nature of excommunication . what persecution or hunting is . christs spouse no●ser ●tcher or fighter . who cannot be won by the word , must not be compelled by the sword. constraine upon consciences in old and new england . tertullian his speech discussed . the indians of new england permitted by the english not only to continue ●n their unbele●f ( which they can●●●●ure ) but also in their f●lse worsh●p which they might by the civil sworrestraine . in a cases a false religion will not hurt the true church , or the state. the seducing or infecting of others discussed . the answerer trus●eth not to the sword of the spirit only in spirituall causes . the absolute sufficiencie of the sword of the spirit . the church of christ to be kept pure . a nationall church not inst●●●t●d by christ jesus . the nationall church of the jewes . sam. . man hath no power to m●ke lawes to binde conscience . desperate consequences unavoidable . luthers testimony in this case discussed . mr. cottons positions evidently proved contradictory to themselves . hearing of the word of god in a church estate a part of gods worship . papists plea for toleration of conscience . the protestants partiall in the case of persecution . a false balance in gods matters abominable to god. sheep cannot h●nt , no not the wolves . pills to purge out the spi●it of persecution . superstition & persecution have had many votes from gods owne people . austins saying for persecution examined . soul-killing . punishments provided by christ jesus against soule-killers and soule-wounders . men dead in sin , cannot be soule kill'd . a nationall enforced religion or a civill war for religion the two great preventers of soule conversion and life . soule killers prove ( by the grace of christ ) soule savers . optatus examined . persecuters leave christ , & flie to moses for their practice . phineas his act discussed . elia●s slaughters examined . eliahs consuming the capta●nes and their companies by ●i●e , discussed . dangerous consequences flowing from the civill magistrates judging in spirituall causes . the world turned upside down . the wonderfull answer of the ministers of the church of new england to the ministers of the church of old england . l●mentable differences even amongst them that ●ear god. betweene the presbyterians and independants , covenanters and noncovenanters , of both which many are truly godly in their persons . the doctrine of persecution nec●ss●r●ly and most commonly falls 〈◊〉 vi●st upon he ●●ost godly persons . the doctrine of persecution drives the most godly persons out of the world . the bloody tenent . warres for conscience . the blessed magna charta notes for div a -e a strange modell of a church and common-weale , after the m●s●call and jewish pattern mat. . . with ●oh : . . rom. . . mat. . . t it . . acts . . isa. . ● . gal. . ● . christs power in his church confest to be above all magistrates in 〈◊〉 all things . isa. . . lamentably wrested . the first head examined . john . . j●r . . . ezta . . rom. . . . & tim. . . the civill commonweal and the spirituall commonweale the church , not inconsistent , though independent the one on the other . christs ordinances put upon a whole city or nation , may more civilize and moralize , but ●ever christianize them . the second head concerning superiority of each power . rom. . . . isa. . . isa. . . luc. . . joh. . . and that judicium of the church in law suits , cor. is only arbitrarium not coasti●●m . ans. truth . a contradiction to make the magistrate supreme judge in spirituall causes , and yet to have no spirituall power . the civill magistrate confest to have no civill power over the soules of men . nor spirituall . the magistrate and the church , by the authors grounds , at one and the same time , in one and the same cause , made the judges on the b●●●h , and d●●●quents ●●●th . b●●re . an illustration demonstrat●ng th●● the c●vill mag●st●at● c●nnot h●ve power over the church 〈◊〉 spiritu●ll or church causes . the punishments civill which the magistrate insticts upon the church for civill crimes , lawfull and necessary . the true way of the god of peace in differen●es between the church & the magistrate . ch●mer . de ec. l●s . p. . park . part . polit . lib. . cap. the g●rden of the church and the wildernesse of the world ma●e all one . the commonweale more charged by these authors with the w●●sh●p and ordinances , then the church . the authors of these position● never yet s●w a true d●fference betweene ●he church of ch●●●t ●nd the world , in po●●t of worsh●p . tim . . discuss●d . the word honesty in this place of timothy cannot signifie here the honesty or righteousnesse of the second table . the scope of gods spirit in this place of timothy . gods people must pray for and endeavour the peace of the state they live in . although pagan or pop●sh forcing of men to godlinesse or gods worship , the greatest cause of breach of civill peace the roman caesars described . not appointed by christ jesus keepers and guardians of his church . it pleased not the lord jesus in the first institution of his church to furnish himselfe with any such civill governours , as unto whom hee might commit the care of his worship . the true keepers which christ jesus appointed , of his o●dinances and worship . the kings of the assyrians &c. not charged with gods worship as the kings of judah in that nationall and typicall church constantine , theodosius . &c. mis●●formed . masters of families under the gospel not charged to force all under him from their owne consciences to his . if the charge of gods worship was left with the romane emperour , then was he bound to turne the whole world into the garden , flock , and spouse of christ. millions put to death . christ never sent any of his ministers or servants to the civil magistrate for help in spirituall matters . christ jesus hath left power in his church to preserve her selfe pure , though in an idolatrous countrey . gods people have used to shine in brightest godlinesse when they have enjoyed least quietnes . few m●gistrates , few men spiritually and christianly good . yet divers sorts of goodnesse n●turall , artificiall , ci●vill , &c. the civill goodnes of cine● , kingdomes , subj●cts , m●gistrates , must be owned , although spirituall goodnes ( proper to the christian state or church ) be wanting . civill power originally and fundamentally in the people . mr. cotton and the new-english ministers give the government of christs church or spouse into the hands of the people or common-weale . the very indian americans made governours of the church by the authors of these positions . many civill states in flourishing peace and quiet , where ●he lord jesus is not ●ounded . lawes concerning religion , either religious , o● civill . the very indians abhor to disturbe any conscience at worship . canons and constitutions p●etended civill , but indeed ecclesiasticall . laws meerely concerning spirituall things , must needs be spirituall . the authors large confession of the liberty of conscience from the laws of civill authority in spirituall cases . civill magistrates confessed not to have power to urg the conscience in indifferent things . a threefold guilt●ly●ng upon civil powers commanding the subjects 〈◊〉 worship . persons may 〈◊〉 sin 〈◊〉 to many whom t●●y 〈◊〉 not 〈◊〉 , 〈◊〉 to worship where they cannot beleeve . gods israel des●o●s of saul●arme of flesh . the headed beast , and the lambe differ in their weapons . naboths case typicall . civill powers abused as a guard about the bed of spirituall whoredomes . ●zra . . discussed . gods people not subject to ●he kings of babell or per●● in spirituals . tyrants hearts sometimes wonderfully mo●●ified towards gods people . nabuchadnezzar , d●ri●us , and a●ta ●erxes th●ir decrees examined . ezra's thanksgiving for the kings decree examined . the duty of all civill states toward the consciences of their subjects . christ needs no humane confirmations . the sum of the examples of gentile kings decreeing for gods worship in scripture the law of putting to death blasphe●● of christ cuts off . i hopes from the jewes of part ki●g in his blou● . the dir●full effects of sighting for conscience . e●lour is confident as well as truth . gods people as well as others will be found obstinate in fundamentall errors in which sufferings and persecution doth harden . strong delusions . spirituall prisons . christ jesus appointed no materiall prisons for blasphemers of him , &c. the bishops prisons . like mother like daughter . conscience not so easily healed and cared . wounding instead of healing of consciences . christs spouse able and willing to be ●e wounded cons●●●nces . a persecuting church disputes with an heretick as a cat with the mouse ; and with a true witnes as a lyon with a limbe in his paw . persecutours endure not so to be called . psal. . . concerning the cutting off the wicked , examined . no land of canaan , nor holy city now no difference of lands and cities since the comming as was before the comming of the lord jesus . the bloudy interpretation of psal. . the new engl●sh seperate in america , but not in europe . the new eng●ish permit not their brethren of old england to enjoy their consciences left th●ir owne numbers might exceed their owne , or at least the greatnesse of their owne assemblies & maintenances decrease . christ jesus never appointed all religions but his owne to be cut off by the civill sword. a bloudy mother . christ spirituall power , most powerfull . christ forbidding his followers to permit leaven in the church , doth not for●bid to permit leaven in the world. the wall , cant. . . discussed . a spirituall wall cannot properly impaire the civil . many flourishing civill states where true churches are not found . hearing discussed . every religion prefers its owne priests and ministers before all other . jonahs preaching to the ninevites , and their hearing of his message examined . eglon his rising up to ehuds message , examined . a two fold ministry of christ , converting and feeding . paul never used any civill compulsion . the new english forcing their subjects to church all their daies , and yet forcing them not to any religion ( as they say ) they force the people then to be of no religion all their dayes , the civill state can no more lawfully compell the consciences of men to church to heare the word , then to receive the sacraments . in the first patterne there is a converting ministrie , to gather the church or flo●k of christ. no president of any people in the gospell converting & gathering themselves , without some messenger sent from the lord to effect those ends . professed publique conversion is not onely from sinnes against the second table in personall repentance , but from false worship also . a true ministery necessary before conversion , and therefore before the church in the first patterne . the true way of the m●●●st●y sent with that commission ma●●h . . discussed . the civill magistrate not betrusted with gathering of churches . if the magistrate , then much more the people of the world , from whom the magistrates receive their power . iehosaphat ( chron. . ) a figure of christ jesus in his church not of the civill magistrate in the state. gal. . . concerning the maintenance of the ministry examined . christ jesus never appointed a maintenance of his ministers from the unconverted and unbeleeving . they that compell men to heare , compell men also to pay for their hearing and conversion . two sorts of compulsion . morall and civill compulsion . the ministers of christ jesus compell with no other sword then that of christs mouth , the sword of the spirit with two edges . the maintenance of the ministry spirituall . naturall men can neither truly worship nor maintain it . rebels not subdued by compliance , but resistance . the nationall church of the jewes might well be forced to a settled maintenance of their priests but not so the christian church . the civill sword of the nationall church of the jewes could not type out a civill , but a spirituall sword of the christian church . no man should be bound to worship , nor maintaine a worship against his own consent . christs labourers worthy of their hire , but from them that hire them what maintenance christ hath appointed his ministers in the gospell . universities of europe a cause of universall sins & plagues , yet schooles honourable for tongues and arts. christs church his schoole , and all believers scholars . who knowes but god may againe powre forth the gifts of tongues ? tongues attainable out of oxford or cambridge . mr. ainsworth king henry the . set down●● the popes chaire in england . if the mgistrate must punish in spirituall 〈◊〉 , he must 〈◊〉 be judge 〈◊〉 spirituall causes also . apocripha , common-prayer and homilies , pretious to our forefa●hers . a case . reformations are fallible . bloudy conclusions . head. the argument from the babylonian and persian kings re-minded . the president of the kings and governo●●s of israel and iudah examined . the state of israel relating to spirituall matters proved typicall . the persian kings make evidently against such as produce them for maintenance of the doctrine of persecution . the land of canaan chosen by god to be the seat of the church , but under the new testament all nations alike . the inhabitants of canaans land every soule to be put to death that the israelites might enjoy their possessions : not so now . the very 〈◊〉 & silver of cara●aes● images 〈◊〉 to be abhorred . the land of canaan ceremonially holy . greater holynesse in the antitype under the gospel , then in the types under the law. the land of canaan jehorahs land. emanuels land so no land or country more then another . the blasphe m●us titles of the christned and christian world. the materiall land of ca●a●n was to keep her sabboths , so no materiall land or country now . god feedeth his sometimes immediately . the j●bilee of canaan a type of restitution and redemption in the gospell . canaans land a type of 〈◊〉 kingdome of god on earth and in heaven why naboth refused to part with a garden plot to his king upon hazard of his life . the difference of the people of israel and all other peoples . the people of israel the seed of one man. only made good in the spirituall seed , the regene●ate or new-borne . the people of israel separate from all nations in sp●●● all and in some civill things . no nation so s●parated to god in the gospel , but only the new borne israel that feare god in every nation . the whole people of israel 〈…〉 of egypt . not so any whole nation now . pope●y not so easily turned from as i● conceived . wonderfull turnings in religion in yeares conpasse in england . the pope not unlike to recover his monarchie over europe before his downfall . who are now the true seed of abraham . the people of israel all holy in a typicall 〈◊〉 all nations now alike since the comming of the lord jesus . the children of israel a figure of the israel or people of god only u●der the gospel . the people of israel 〈◊〉 rent from all the world in their figurative and ceremoniall worships . israel gods only church might well renew that nationall covenant and ceremoniall worship which other nations cannot imitate . the hypocrisies , prophanations , and slaughters which such imitation now in the gospell produce . the difference of the kings and governours of israel from al kings & governors of the world . first , they were all members of the church . excellent talents vouchsafed by god to unregenerate persons . a doctrine contrary to all true piety and humanity it selfe . the papists doctrine of deposing magistrates confessed in effect to be true by the p●●cestants . no civill magistrate christian in christs time . five demonstrative arguments proving the unsoundnesse of that maxime : the church and common-wealth are like hypocrates twins . many flourishing states without a true church . many of gods people 〈…〉 from a true church state . yet ●it for civill services . gods people permitted and favoured by idolaters . christs church gathered and governed with out the helpe of an arme of flesh . christs true ●pouse 〈◊〉 and faithfull to christ j●sus in the 〈…〉 or 〈◊〉 from the world. the horns , revel . . & . the great mysterie of persecution unfolded . christian naboths slaughtered . . difference . the mysterie of the anointing the kings of israel and judah . the name christian or anointed . a sacrilegious monopolie of the name christian. the crown of christs kingly power . . the kings of israel and judah invested with a● spirituall power . david immeately inspired by the spirit of god , in his ordering of church ma●ters . salomons deposing abiathar ( ● kings . . ● ) discussed . salomon his putting abiathar from the priesthood , examined . a case put upon occasion of abiathars case . another ●ase . the liberties of christs churches in the choice of their officers . a civill influence dangerous to the saints liberties . jehosaphats ●ast examined . if civill powers may inj●y●e the time o● the churches w●rship , the may also forbid her times . god will not wrong caesar , and caesar should not wrong god. the famous acts of 〈◊〉 examined . m●gistracy in generall from god , the particular formes from the people . israel confirmed in a nationall covenant by revelations , signes , and miracles , but so not england . henry . the first head and governour of the church of england . the wonderfull formings and reformings of religion by englands kings . kings and states often plant , and often pluck up religions . a nationall church ever subject to turne and returne , &c. a woman papissa or head of the church . the papists neerer to the truth concerning the government of the church then most protestants . the kingly power of the lord jesus troubles all the kings and rulers of the wo●ld . a twofold exaltation of christ. the world ●●o●meth at both . a fourth difference . kings of israel ●ypes . they wore a double crown the saviours of the jewes , ●igures of the saviour of the world. the monarchicall and ministeriall power of christ. great competitours for the ministeriall power of christ. the popes great pretenders fo● the ministeriall power of christ. they also upon the point chalenge the monarchicall also the second great pretender the civill magistrate . great factions chalenging an arme of flesh. . the pre●aci● . . the presbyterie . the pope and presbyte●i● make use of the civill magistrate but as of an executio●er . . independents . the independents : who come neerest to the bishops the third competition , of those that seperate . their neerer conformitie to christ. the churches of the seperation ought in humanitie and subjects libertie not to be oppressed , but ( at least ) permitted . ● reasons proving that the kings of israel and judah cannot have any other but a spirituall antitype . civill types and figures must needs be answered by spirituall antitypes . civill compulsion was proper in the nationall church of the jewes , but most improper in the christian , which is not nationall . neither christ jesus nor his messengers have made the civill magistrate israels antitype , but the contrary . civill magistracie essentially civill , and the same in all parts of the world. christianitie adds not to the nature of a civill commonweale , nor doth want of christianitie diminish it . rom. . evidently prove● the civill work and wages of the civill magistrate most strange , yet most true consequences from the civill magistrates now being the antitype of the kings of israel and judah . if no religion but that which the common-weal approves thē no christ , no god , but at the pleasure of 〈◊〉 world . ● ep. jo . the true antitype of the ●●ngs of israel and judah . a fourth difference of lawes and statutes from all others . moses a type of christ. the lawes of israel unparallel'd , gods owne finger penn'd lawes for israel . fift difference temporall prosperity most proper to the temporall nationall state of the jewes . the spirituall prosperity of gods people now , the antitype . what israels excommunication was . the corporall stoning in the law , typed out spirituall s●oning in the gospell . the rewards or punishments of the lawes of israel not to be parallel'd . the wars of israel typicall . israels enemi●s round about . the enemies of mysticall israel . enemies against israel in her owne bowells . the famous typically captivities of the jews . their wonderfull victories . the mysticall battells of gods israel now . the mysticall army of white troopers r. . whether the civill state of israel was presidentiall . the true christendome great unfaithfulnesse in ministers to c●st the ●hiefest burden of judging and establ●sh●ng true christi●nity upon the commonweal or worl● it selfe . to governe & judge in civill aff●●●es load enough on the civill magistrate . magistrates can have no more power then the common consent of the people shall betrust them with . thousands of lawfull magistrates who never heare of the true church of god. the spirituall and civill sword cannot be managed by one and the same person . the lord jesus refused so manage both . nero and the persecuting emperours not so injurious to christianity , as constantine and others who assumed a power in spirituall things . under constantine christianity fell into corruption , and christians fell asleep . who force the consciences of others , yet are not willing to be forced themselves . constantine and others wanted not so much affection as information of conscience . sad consequences of charging the civill powers with the care of spiritualls . civill rulers giving and lending their horns or authority to bishops , both dangerous to the truth of christ. the spirituall power of the lord jesus compared in scripture to the incomparable horne of the rhinocerot a time when gods people are wholly at a losse for gods worship . nursing fathers and mothers . the civill horne or power being of a humane constitution cannot but be of a humane operation . the civill power owes things to the true church of christ. . approbation . . submission . . protection . the civill magistrate owes to false worshippers . . permission . . protection . the civill magistrates conscience torne and distracted between the divers and contrary affirmations even of the most godly reformers . the authors of these positions deal with the civill magistrate , as the souldiers dealt with the lord jesus . the rise of high commissions . &c. pious magistrates and ministers consciences are perswaded for that , which other magistrates consciences condemne . to professe the magistrate must force the church to her duty , and yet must not judge what that is , what is it but to play in spirituall things ? an apt similitude discussed concerning the civill magistrate . first quaerie : what if the 〈◊〉 command the mr. or pilot to steere such a course which they know will never bring them to the harbour . quaerie . if the mr. of the ship command the 〈◊〉 thus , & the prince command the contrary , who is to be obeyed ? if the prince have as much skill as the mr. or pilo , &c. . quaerie . . quaerie . whether the meanest saylor ( in respect of his skill and service ) be not to be preferred before the prince himself . quaerie . whether if the mr. of the ship gratifie the prince to the casting away of the ship and prince , &c. he be not guilty and 〈◊〉 to answer ? the application in generall of the ship to the church , &c. the meanest christian according to his knowledg and grace , to bee preferred before the highest who have received none or lesse grace of christ. a true minister of christ ought to walk by another rule then the command of civill authority in spirituall causes . former positions compared with this similitude , and found to contradict each other . the similitude of the magistrate prescribing to the physician in civill things but the physician to the magistrate concerning his body . the head examined . to give the government of the church to the civill magistrate ( as before ) and yet to abridge his conscience , what is it but to sport with holy things ? &c. an evident contradiction . an excellent confession of the proper end of civill government . when civill lawes are not broken , it is confest that civill peace is not hurt . a grievous charge against the christian church , and the king of it . a strange law in new england formerly against excommunicate persons . a dangerous doctrine against all civill magistrates . many sins prohibited to be punished by the magistrate and yet they also charge him to punish all sin , rom. . originall sin charged to hurt remotely ( but falsely ) the civill state . magistrates strangely forbidden to hear civill complaints . thousands of common-weales where no true church of christ. the complaints of families properly fall into the cognizance of the civill mastrate . they who give to magistrates more then is due , are most apt to dis●o to be them of what is theirs . . head. a strange double picture the great priviledges of the true spouse or church of christ. to hold with i●ght and walk in darknesse . the magistrate lift up to be the chief 〈◊〉 of the church , and yet cast downe not to have power to appoint the place or time of meeting . similitudes illustr●ting the magistrate 〈◊〉 be ●oth governor of the church and yet usurp●r in commanding . if a church may assemble without and against the magistrates consent ( as is assi●●ed ) then much more constitute and become a church , &c. grosse partiality . if the civill magistrate be to build the spirituall or christian house , he must judge of the matter . a close and faithfull intergatory to the consciences of the authors of these positions a sad quaerie to some concerning their practice . a marvallou● challenge of more libertie to christians under a christian magistrate then under the heathen . if magistrates● were appointed by christ jesus governours of his kingdome , it were not reasonable that christians should more freely breake the commands of the christian , then of the heathen magistrate . the necessry of civill government in generall of god , but the speciall kindes of men , pet. . . civill magistrates are derivatives from the fountaines or bodies of people . a beleeving magistrate no more a magistrate th●n an unbeleeving . the excellen●●● 〈◊〉 christs 〈…〉 the magistrate like a pilot in the ship of the common-weale . christianitie ste●●es a christian pilots course . the christian pilot hath no more power over the soules of his mariners or passengers , then the unchristian or pagan pilot. the tearmes heathen and christian magistrate . all out of christ are heathens , that is of the nations or gentiles . josiah a type of christ jesus the king of the church . an unjust and partiall desire of liberty to some co●sciences , & bondage unto all others . the commission . mat. . of preaching and baptizing not properly directed to the churches , or fixed teachers of it , least of al to the commonweale . a quaerie , who have now the care of all the churches ? a ministrie before the church . acts . commonly misapplied . christs promise and presence only makes an assembly blessed the promise of christs presence , mat. ● . distinct from that , mat. . . position examined . church administrations are charged firstly upon the misters thereof . the ministers or governors of christs church to be acknowledged in their dispensations . a paradox , magistrates made the judges of the churches , and governours of them , yet censurable by them . queene eliz. bish p●truer to their principles , then many of a better spirit and profession . mr. borowes profession concerning queen elizabeth . is not this too like the popes profession of servu● servorum dei , yet holding out his slipper to the lips of princes , kings and emperours ? . head examined . the inventions of men in swarving from the true essentialls of civill and spirituall common-weales . . and last head examined . a great quegion , viz. whether only church members ( that is as is intended ) godly persons in a particular church estate , be only eligible or to be chosen for magistrates . lawfull civil states , where churches of christ are not . the world being divided into parts , never heard of christ. lawfull heires of crownes & civill government , although not christian and godly . few christians wise and noble , and qualified for affaires of state. some papists and some protestants agree in deposing of magistrates . those scriptures , exod. deut. . & . &c. parallel'd in the true spirituall israel , by tim. . & tit. . the ninevites fast examined object . answ. object . answ. how england and london may yet be spared . luc. , the felling of the coat , to buy a sword , discussed . a threefold taking of the sword. revel . . . the kings having of the whore , discussed . a discourse of ecclesiastical politie wherein the authority of the civil magistrate over the consciences of subjects in matters of external religion is asserted : the mischiefs and incoveniences of toleration are represented, and all pretenses pleaded in behalf of liberty of conscience are fully answered. parker, samuel, - . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing p estc r ocm this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking 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(eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : or : ) a discourse of ecclesiastical politie wherein the authority of the civil magistrate over the consciences of subjects in matters of external religion is asserted : the mischiefs and incoveniences of toleration are represented, and all pretenses pleaded in behalf of liberty of conscience are fully answered. parker, samuel, - . the third edition. [ ], xlvi, p. printed for john martyn ..., london : . this item appears at reels : and : . reproduction of original in the bodleian library. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng church and state -- church of england. church polity. religious tolerance. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - aptara keyed and coded from proquest page images - rina kor sampled and proofread - rina kor text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion a discourse of ecclesiastical politie : wherein the authority of the civil magistrate over the consciences of subjects in matters of external religion is asserted . the mischiefs and inconveniences of toleration are represented , and all pretenses pleaded in behalf of liberty of conscience are fully answered . the third edition . london , printed for iohn martyn at the bell in s t paul's church-yard , . the preface to the reader . reader , i cannot imagine any thing , that our dissenting zealots will be able to object against this ensuing treatise , unless perhaps in some places the vehemence and severity of its style ; for cavil i know they must : and if they can raise no tolerable exceptions against the reasonableness of the discourse it self , it shall suffice to pick quarrels with words and phrases . but i will assure thee , the author is a person of such a tame and softly humour , and so cold a complexion , that he thinks himself scarce capable of hot and passionate impressions : and therefore if he has sometimes twisted invectives with his arguments , it proceeded not from temper but from choice ; and if there be any tart and vpbraiding expressions , they were not the dictates of anger or passion , but of the iust and pious resentments of his mind . and i appeal to any man , who knows upon what sober grounds and principles the reformation of the church of england stands ; and how that its forms and institutions are not only countenanced by the best and purest times of christianity , but establisht by the fundamental laws of the land ; whether he can so perfectly charm and stupifie his passions , as not to be chafed into some heat & briskness ? when he seriously considers , that this church so rightly constituted , and so duely authorised should be so savagely worried by a wild and fanatique rabble ; that this church so soberly modelled , so warrantably reformed , and so handsomly settled , should have been so perpetually beleaguered , and be yet not out of all danger of being rifled , if not utterly demolisht by folly and ignorance ; that the publick peace and settlement of a nation should be so wofully discomposed upon such slender and frivolous pretenses , and that , after they have been so often and so shamefully baffled ; that both church and state should be so lamentably embroyl'd by the pride and insolence of a few peevish ignorant and malepert preachers ; and lastly , that these brain-sick people , if not prevented by some speedy and effectual remedy , may in a little time grow to that power and confidence , as to be able ( to use their own language ) to * shut the heavens that they shall not rain , i. e. to restrain the highest powers of church and state from their wonted influence ; and to have power over the waters to turn them into blood , i. e. to turn the still people of a state or nation into war and blood : or , to speak in our own plain english , to tye the hands of authority , to instigate the people of god to rebellion , and once more involve the kingdom in blood and confusion . let the reader consider all this , as throughly and seriously as i have done , and then be a stoick if he can . but besides this , let any man , that is acquainted with the wisdom and sobriety of true religion , tell me , how 't is possible not to be provoked to scorn and indignation against such proud , ignorant , and supercilious hypocrites ; who though they utterly defeat all the main designs of religion , yet boast themselves its only friends and patrons ; signalize their party by distinctive titles and characters of godliness , and brand all others , howsoever pious and peaceable , with bad names , and worse suspicions ? who i say , that loves and adores the spirit of true religion , can forbear to be sharp and severe to such thick and fulsom abuses ? in that there is not any thing can so much expose or traduce true piety , as this sort of hypocrisie ; because whilst folly and phantastry appears in the vizour of holiness , it makes that seem as ridiculous as it self . and hence the greatest friends of true goodness have always been the severest satyrists upon false godliness ; and our blessed saviour scarce seemed more concern'd to plant and propagate christianity , than to explode the pharisaick hypocrisie , i. e. religious pride and insolence . i know but one single instance , in which zeal , or a high indignation is just and warrantable ; and that is when it vents it self against the arrogance of haughty , peevish , and sullen religionists , that under higher pretences to godliness supplant all principles of civility and good nature ; that strip religion of its outside to make it a covering for spight and malice ; that adorn their peevishness with the mask of piety , and shroud their ill nature under the demure pretences of godly zeal ; and stroak and applaud themselves as the only darlings and favourites of heaven , and with a scornful pride disdain all the residue of mankind , as a rout of worthless and unregenerate reprobates . thus the only hot fit of zeal we find our saviour in , was kindled by an indignation against the pride and insolence of the iews , when he whipt the buyers and sellers out of the outward court of the temple : for though they bore a blind and superstitious reverence towards that part of it , that was peculiar to their own worship , yet as for the outward court , the place where the gentiles and proselytes worship't , that was so unclean & unhallowed , that they thought it could not be prophaned , by being turn'd into an exchange of vsury . now this insolent contempt of the gentiles , and impudent conceit of their own holiness , provoked the mild spirit of our blessed saviour to such an height of impatience and indignation as made him with a seeming fury and transport of passion whip the tradesmen thence , and overthrow the tables . so hateful is all proud , testy , and factious zeal to a loving and divine temper of mind . and indeed what can we imagine more odious or mischievous than a spirit of pride , peevishness , and animosity adopted into the service of god ? this divides religion into factions and parties , engenders a sullen and unsociable niceness towards all that herd not with themselves , breeds nothing but rancour , malice and envy , and every thing that is destructive of the common peace and amity of mankind . and when people separate and rendevouz themselves into distinct sects and parties , they always confine all their kind influences to their own faction , and look with a scornful and malignant aspect upon all the rest of mankind , become enemies and outlaws to humane society , and shatter in pieces that natural peace and common love , that preserves the welfare and tranquillity of humane nature . their minds ( like the savage americans ) are as contracted as their herds , and all that are not within the fold of their church , are without the sphere of their charity : this is entirely swallowed up within their own combination , and 't is no part of their duty to commiserate or supply the wants of the vnregenerate . as the poet describes the jewish bigots , non monstrare vias , eadem nisi sacra colenti , quaesitum ad fontem solos deducere verpos . they would not so much as direct the way to any but a circumcised brother , nor bestow a cup of cold water upon a thirsty samaritan . the elect are confined to their own party , and all besides are the wicked and reprobate of the earth , hated of god , and unfit to be beloved by his people . and this possesses their minds with a holy inhumanity ; and then , if the saints ever get into power , no tyrant so cruel and butcherly ; and they have the same esteem of the wicked as of insects or vermin , and use them accordingly : but when they are out of power , they are then forced to support their malice with slanders and calumnies and proud comparisons : when they meet and gossip together , how do they congratulate each other , that they are not as this or that formalist ? and the greatest part of their idle tattle is usually spent either in censuring or pitying , or slandering some of their neighbours , as poor carnal and unconverted wretches . and when they deign to converse with the vnregenerate and men of the world , i. e. all out of their own rowt , they make them keep their distance ; and the language of their deportment is that of their predecessors in the prophet isaiah : stand by thy self , come not near to me ; for i am holier than thou . in brief , whoever is proud and conceited upon the score of religion , naturally falls into the most savage insolence and baseness of nature , and is utterly uncapable of being either good subject , or good neighbour . now to lash these morose and churlish zealots with smart and twinging satyrs , is so far from being a criminal passion , that 't is a zeal of meekness and charity , and a prosecution of the grand and diffusive duty of humanity , and proceeds only from an earnest desire to maintain the common love and amity of mankind . and though good manners oblige us to treat all other sorts of people with gentle and civil language ; yet when we have to do with the scribes and pharisees , we must point our reproofs with sharp invectives , we must discover them to themselves to humble them ; we must lance their tumour , and take out the core of their proud flesh before we can cure them ; anodynes and softer medicines make no impressions upon them , to treat them smoothly does but feed the humour ; soft and tender words do but tempt their disdain , and sooth up their vanity ; they think you flatter and fawn upon them , if you speak them fair , your civility they will interpret respect , and a forced esteem of their godliness . they know that you and the rest of the world hate the people of god , and would use them basely and inhumanely ; but that the greatness of their piety gives check to your malice , and , in spight of all your outragious passion against them , extorts a more gentle usage , if not a secret love and veneration . but beside , that soft reproofs do but cocker their presumption , they would suffer true goodness to be run down by the violence of ignorance and zeal . and to think to argue rude and boystrous zealots out of their folly meerly by the strength of calm and sober reason , is as likely a matter as to endeavour by fair words to perswade the northern wind into a southern point . if you will ever silence them , you must be as vehement as they : nothing but zeal can encounter zeal . and he that will oppose the pharisees , must do it with their eagerness , though not their malice . clamour and confidence make stronger impressions upon the common people , than strength of reason ; and the rabble ever runs to that party , that raises the biggest noise . and therefore seeing we are not so ill-bred , as to oppose clamour to clamour ; we must supply our want of noise and throat ( as our saviour did in his invectives against the pharisees ) by sharpness and severity . and though there is but little ground to hope that the keenest reasons should be able to pierce their thick and inveterate prejudices ; yet however the sharper edge they have , the deeper they will stick in the minds of those , whose concern and interest it is to punish and correct them . for i am not so vain as to design , or expect their own conviction : as good attempt the removal of mountains , as of some mens scruples . and i remember the italian proverb , chi lava la testa d'al asino perde il sapone . and therefore i never proposed to my self any other aim in this following discourse , than by representing the palpable inconsistency of fanatick tempers and principles with the welfare and security of government , to awaken authority to beware of its worst and most dangerous enemies , and to force them to that modesty and obedience by severity of laws , to which all the strength of reason in the world can never perswade them . when i first resolved upon this vndertaking , the main design in my thoughts , was to represent to the world the lamentable folly and silliness of these mens religion , aud to shew what pitiful and incompetent guides of their actions their own consciences are ; and that to leave them to the government of their own perswasions , is only to deliver them up to be abused by all manner of vices and follies ; and that when they have debaucht their minds with pride , ignorance , self-love , ambition , peevishness , malice , envy , surliness , and superstition , &c. they then bestow the authority and sacredness of conscience upon their most violent , boisterous , and ungovernable passions : in brief , that their consciences are seized on by such morose and surly principles , as make them , the rudest and most barbarous people in the world ; and that in comparison of them , the most insolent of the pharisees were gentlemen , and the most savage of the americans philosophers . but in this design i found my self happily prevented by a late learned and ingenious discourse , the friendly debate , that has unravel'd all their affected phrases with so much perspicuity of wit , discovered the feebleness of their beloved notions , with so much clearness of reason , demonstrated the wildness of their practices by so many pregnant and undeniable testimonies , exposed the palpable unwarrantableness of their schism , the shameful prevarication of their pretences , and utter inconsistency of their principles with publick peace & settlement ; and in brief , so evidently convicted the leaders in the faction of such inexcusable knavery , and their followers of such a dull and stubborn simplicity ; that 't is impossible any thing should hold out against so much force of reason and demonstration , but invincible impudence and obstinacy : and when men insconce themselves in their own wills , they are there impregnable . wilfulness is enchanted armour , upon which the sharpest steel makes no impression ; and they are secure from the power of conviction , that are unalterably resolved never to be convinced . otherwise nothing could be more apparent to any man ( that has but a competent knowledge of the nature of the things there debated ) that never any cause in the world was more shamefully baffled and triumphed over , than this of schismatical non-conformity . and though it has gaul'd them into an implacable rage and indignation ( for that as solomon observes , is the humour of some sorts of men , to rage and be confident , when they are convinced ) yet in spight of affronts and provocations , it has found them a tame and patient people , that can generously endure to see themselves so smartly pelted for their folly and villany , and never so much as snarl , or attempt to fasten upon those weapons , that have so sorely bruised them ; and as for those little cattel that have been so hardy as to nibble at a reply , they have only put us in mind of the old fable of the serpent and the file , and have proved nothing but the strength of their folly , and weakness of their teeth ; and all of them may wear their fangs to the roots , before they make any impression upon the body of the discourse . the main and most popular objection , i could ever meet with against it , is its form and method , viz. it s being written in way of dialogue ; in which way of writing ( they say ) a witty man may make any thing look as uncouth and ridiculous as he pleases . and this is true , in absurd and inartificial dialogues ; but when they are skilfully contrived ( as this is ) there is no way of arguing more smart and convictive : for the design of such composures is to represent the authors own thoughts upon occasion of something affirm'd or intimated by the counter-party ; and therefore if his own discourse be rational and concluding , there is nothing more required to that of the other party , than that his talk be agreeable to the pretenses of those men he personates : so that , if the authors own arguments and opinions ( that are the substance of the treatise ) be unreproveable , 't is not material how wise his adversaries discourse is , so it be not false . neither would he require them to defend and justifie every thing that is said in the person of the non-conformist ( for many things are collateral , and only design'd to set off his reasonings with a comical humour and pleasantness ) but only to reply to the scope and substance of his book by justifying their own notions that he has confuted , and by confuting those that he has asserted . which unless they shew themselves able to perform , they must acknowledge he has perfectly shamed their folly , and unmaskt their hypocrisie . but besides , this being but a general exception , must by the laws of reasoning pass not only for a precarious but a false cavil , till it is proved by some particular instances , & neither needs , nor admits of any other reply , than barely to challenge them to alledg any thing of moment in their own behalf about the particular matters there debated , that he has not sufficiently represented : if in any thing considerable he has been disingenuous , let them point it out ; but if they cannot , let them not think to satisfie the world , by objecting what they confess they cannot prove , because they do not . 't is true indeed , the speeches of the non-conformist are not so large and copious as his adversaries , because his part consists mainly in hinting doubts and objections , which must of necessity be in all forms of arguing much shorter than their just and satisfactory replies ; especially when they are not barely answered , but confuted too : and therefore considering the difference of the parts of the dialogue , he has as clearly represented their sense as his own ; and if all he says for them were composed into one continued speech , it would be no easie matter to discern it from one of their own discourses . but the thing that really grieves them , is , that in this method he has stopt all their subterfuges , as he proceeds , by preventing their shifting of phrases , and hiding themselves in a maze of words ; for , whereas 't is their usual artifice to tire out the wise , and amuse the simple , by rowling up and down in canting and ambiguous expressions , he has been at the pains to serret them from phrase to phrase , and never left his pursuit till they were left quite naked and defenceless , and without one crany whereby to make an escape : in so much , that they can never be able to return any tolerable answers to one part of his treatise , that are not already prevented in another . but that which chiefly tempts less discerning people to suspect some partiality , is , that the discourse of the non-conformist looks all along so simply ; though for that they ought to consider , that 't is no wonder if non-sense runs so lamely , when truth and reason tread so close upon its heels ; and the babble of a fool never appears so fulsom , as when he discourses with a philosopher ; 't is the smartness and perspicuity of the reply , that makes their folly so transparent : remove the conformist , and then the other talks at as wise a rate , as any of their own writers . but i beg the readers pardon , for having so much tired his patience with satisfying the cavils and impertinences of these people ; when i am so well assured that they are uncapable either of being ashamed or argued out of their follies . 't is one thing to baffle , and another to convince them . and where they want stores of reason to encounter an adversary , they never want magazines of reproaches : and therefore i shall only advise that excellent person , the author of the debate , to be careful how he lays aside his vizour ; for if ever they discover him , let him look to be pelted to purpose with slanders , and blasting reports : and though he be a person of the clearest and most unspotted innocence , that is no fence against the foulest aspersions ; but if they ever find out the place of his residence , let him assure himself , they will quickly find the next dunghil to it , how clean soever he sweeps his own door . as for my own part i am hardned enough to be proof against the poison of asps , the stings of vipers , and the tongues of — and rest satisfyed in this , that they can never abuse me more than they are pleased to abuse themselves ; it being the most solemn strain of their devotion to vilifie themselves with large confessions of the hainousest and most aggravated sins : they will freely acknowledge their offences against all the commandments , and that with the foulest and most enhancing circumstances they can rake together , and confess their injustice , vncleanness , and extortion , and all the publican and harlot sins in the world : and in all their confessions they stick not to charge themselves with such large catalogues of sin , and to amass together such an heap of impieties , as would make up the compleatest character of lewdness and villany . and if their consciences do really arraign them of all those crimes , whereof they so familiarly endite themselves , there are no such guilty and unpardonable wretches as they . so that their confessions are either true , or false : if false , then they fool and trifle with the almighty ; if true , then i could easily tell them the fittest place to say their prayers in . but however 't is pity to abridge them the liberty all men have , to abuse themselves : but if they will extend this their priviledge so far , as to attaint other mens reputations , i shall only admonish them as a friend before-hand , that there is somebody in the world that will not fail to requite their slanders , and false aspersions , with their own true character . and so i take my leave of them , to address my self to those for whom this discourse was intended . and though i dare not be so sawcy as to teach my superiours , how to govern the kingdom , out of ezekiel , or the revelations ; yet i will presume to put up this single petition , in order to the security of our publick peace and settlement . that whatsoever freedom they may think good to indulge to religion , they would not suffer irreligion to share in the favour , nor permit atheism to appear openly ( as it begins to do ) under the protection of liberty of conscience . i am not so utterly unacquainted with the experience of former ages , as to be over-apt to complain of the degeneracy of our own : the world i know has ever had its vicissitudes , and periods of vertue and wickedness : and all common-wealths have advanced themselves to their power and grandeur by sobriety and wisdom , and a tender regard of religion ; and from thence have declined again by softness and effeminacy , by sacrilege and prophaneness , and a proud contempt of god and his worship . this is the circle of humane affairs , and on these constant turns depend the periods and certain fates of empires . so that though atheism reigns and prevails more in the present age , than in some that went immediately before it ; yet there have been seasons , when it was mounted up to a greater height of power and reputation , than 't is yet advanced to : but then those have always been black and fatal times , and have certainly brought on changes and dissolutions of states . for the principles of irreligion unjoynt the sinews and blow up the very foundations of government : this turns all sense of loyalty into folly ; this sets men at liberty from all the effectual obligations to obedience , and makes rebellion as vertuous , when ever it either is , or is thought as advantageous . and therefore it imports authority to nip this wanton humour in the bud , and to crush it whilst 't is young and tender ; for as yet it has found but slender entertainment with wise and sober persons , and is only propagated among little and unlearned people : discreet men that have not more religion , have yet at least more wit and manners : the only zelots in the cause are the young nurslings , and small infantry of the wits , the wild and hair-brain'd youths of the town . a sort of creatures that study nothing but sloth and idleness , that design nothing but folly and extravagance , that aspire to no higher accomplishments than fine phrases , terse oaths , and gay plumes , that pretend to no other stock of learning , but a few shavings of wit gathered out of plays and comedies ; and these they abuse too , and labour to pervert their chaste expressions to obscene and irreligious purposes ; and johnson and fletcher are prophaned , as well as the holy scriptures . they measure the wit of their discourse by its prophaneness and ribaldry ; and nothing sets it off so handsomly as neat and fashionable oaths : and the only thing that makes them appear more witty then other folk , is their daring to be more wicked : their iests are remarkable for nothing but their presumption , and the picquancy of their conceit lies in their boldness . men laugh not so much at the wit , as the sawciness of their discourse ; and because they dare vent such things , as a discreet or civil man would scorn to say , though he were an atheist . but these shallow fools are proud and ambitious to gain a name and reputation for debauchery , they slander themselves with false impieties , and usurp the wickedness they were never guilty of , only to get a renown in villany . 't is these apes of wit , and pedants of gentility that would make atheism the fashion forsooth , and prophaneness the character of a gentleman ; that think it a piece of gallantry to scoff at religion , droll upon god and make sport with his laws ; that account it an argument of iudgment and ingenuity , to be above the follies of conscience : and a height of courage and magnanimity , at all adventure to brave and defie heaven , and out-dare the almighty ; and the noblest part of a gentile behaviour , to counterfeit an haughty and supercilious disdain of religious sneeks ; and to beg all men that are respective to their consciences , for soft and cowardly fools , that are scared with phantastick and invisible powers , and easily abused with tricks , and juglings , and publick tales . now certainly , these phantastick changelings must needs be wonderfully qualified , to judge of the most serious and most difficult enquiries in the world . are they not likely ( think you ) to search into the deepest foundations of religion , to weigh and examine all the arguments for the being of god , and immortality of the soul ; to enquire into the grounds of the christian faith , and to take an account of the truth and credibility of the scriptures ? and , when they have so utterly emasculated their vnderstandings with softness and luxury , are not they prodigiously able to examine what agrees or quarrels with the dictates of pure and impartial reason ? are they not likely to determine what is truely great and generous , that never heard of any other maxims of philosophy , but what they have pick'd up at plays , out of the stiff disputes of love and honour ? and are they not likely to give a wonderful account of the record of ancient times ( without which they are utterly unable to judg of the truth or falshood of any religion ) that were never acquainted with any history , unless perhaps that of the follies , and amours of the french court ? and yet how briskly do these giddy youths determine these , and a thousand other difficult theories , that they never had learning or patience enough to understand , much less to make an exact and satisfying search into their truth and evidence ? alas young men ! you are too rash and forward , your confidence swells above your vnderstandings : 't is not for you to pretend to atheism , 't is too great a priviledge for boys and novices . 't is sawsiness for you to be prophane , and to censure religion impudence and ill manners : and whatsoever rational pleas atheism may admit of , 't is not for such as you to pretend to wit and learning enough to understand them . and therefore take heed of exposing your vanity and weakness ; and , if you will not be wise , yet at least be modest : be advised , not to set up before your time , and better to furnish your vnderstandings , before you vent your wit. consider , what a fulsome thing it is , that when the most learned and inquisitive of the philosophers could never raise atheism above the certainty of a grand perhaps : and therefore denied not , but only doubted , the truth of religion : for none of them could ever be so utterly forsaken of his reason , as to attempt to demonstrate there could be no god ; but only by shewing how , to solve the phaenomena of nature and providence without him , that possibly there might be none : and therefore they were never so absurd , as to affront the worship of the deity ; but thought themselves as effectually obliged in prudence to the duties of vertue and religion by the possibility , as by the certainty of things . now i say , when these men of parts and learning were so modest and diffident in their singular perswasions ; what an unhandsome thing is it for such empty fops as you , with so bold and frontless a confidence , to defie the almighty , to deride the wisdom of his laws , to cavil at his sacred oracles , and to give the lye to the vniversal sense of mankind ; and all this at all adventure ? and yet , methinks , 't is pretty to hear one of these little mushrome wits , charge religion with credulity and easiness of belief ; and talk confidently , that 't is want of iudgment and enquiry that betrays fools and ignorant people to be scared with the tales and threatnings of ambitious priests : though it be so utterly impossible that any men should be more chargeable with credulity , than themselves ; and no mans faith is capable of being more implicit , than their vnbelief ; nor can the most illiterate peasant take up his countries religion upon more slender grounds and motives , than they do their infidelity : their being equally ignorant forces them to be equally credulous . for , not to repeat any of the forementioned particulars , with what a greedy confidence do they swallow down the principles of the malmsbury philosophy , without any chewing , or consideration ? how hussingly will they assert , that the notion of an immaterial substance implies a contradiction , for no other reason , than because it does ? that men have no faculties but of sense and imagination ; that vnderstanding is reaction , and reason a train of phantasmes ; that the will is a corporeal motion , that its determinations are fatal and mechanical , and necessitated by the impressions of external and irresistible causes ; that its liberty of choice is as absurd and insignificant nonsense , as a round quadrangle ; that religion is the belief of tales publickly allowed ; that power is right , and justifies all actions whatsoever , whether good or bad ; that there is nothing just , or unjust in it self ; that all right and wrong is the result of humane contracts ; and that the laws of nature are nothing but maxims and principles of self-interest ! how boldly do they take up with these and other resembling principles of baseness and irreligion , upon the bare authority and proofless assertions of one proud and haughty philosopher ? how much severe study and contemplation is required to a competent knowledge of these things ? and yet with what a stiff and peremptory confidence are they determined by these men , that cannot pretend to any other knowledge , ( and 't is a very candid presumption to allow them so much ) than of the laws of a play , or poem ? in brief , these empty spunges suck in opinions , for their agreeableness with their debauched and licentious practices , without ever considering their truth and evidence ; for alas ! they never troubled their heads with such enquiries : and therefore , whatever they pretend , 't is not their reasons , but their lusts and vices , that cavil at the principles of religion ; and they except against it , not because it contradicts their understandings , ( for that they never considered ) but their appetites : 't is their sins and sensual inclinations , that prejudice and bar up their minds against it : and though they were convinced of its truth , they would however be infidels still , in spight of all the reason and demonstration in the world . their irreligion is an after-game of their debauchery , they are forced to it in their own defence . their wickedness has made infidelity their interest , and atheism their refuge ; and then they cannot , will not believe , for no other reason , but only because they dare not . but that i may not pursue their ignorance too unmercifully , i will venture , before i conclude , to commend their skill : for i cannot but acknowledge them guilty of one little piece of art and sophistry , viz. that being conscious to themselves , that no tolerable exceptions can be raised against the principles of true goodness , they affect to reproach it with forged and disingenuous aspersions , and wittingly disparage its native beauty and loveliness , by representing it in false and uncouth disguises . for , whereas there is nothing more noble and generous , more cheerful and sprightly , more courteous and affable , more free and ingenuous , more sober and rational , than the spirit and genius of true religion ; these witty gentlemen are pleased to paint it out in sad and melancholy shapes , with poor and wretched features , with soure and anxious looks , as an enemy to all mirth and cheerfulness , and a thing that delights in nothing but sighs , and groans , and discoloured faces : they dress it up in all the follies and deformities of superstition ; and then , when they have made it ridiculous , they make themselves sport with it : and thus by representing it as a humour unworthy the entertainment of a generous mind , that justifies their contempt of so weak a passion , and makes a sumptuous apology for the gallantry of atheism and prophaneness . and indeed , if religion were as mean and absurd , as these men would make it , and others have made it , let it not only excuse but abet their practices ; let it be the mark of an high and gallant spirit , to be an atheist ; let it be gentility to despise , and wit to droll upon religion ; let all devotion be esteemed the child of folly and weakness ; let it be an argument of wisdom , to be prophane and vicious , and let vertue become a name of the greatest reproach and infamy . but alas ! when 't is so demonstratively evident , that true piety ( though it were an imposture ) is our greatest wisdom and perfection ; that it both adorns , and advances humane nature ; that it is so highly advantageous to the peace and happiness of the world ; that it carries in it all that is amiable and lovely , all that is cheerful and ingenuous , all that is useful and profitable ; and that 't is whatever can advance either our content , or interest , or reputation : when all this is so amply evident , what can be more unpardonably base and disingenuous , than for these men , in spight of all remonstrances , still to upbraid it with the villanies of hypocrisie , and blast its credit with the absurdities of superstition , which is the greatest folly in the world , for no other reason , than because it debauches what is the greatest wisdom ? and therefore they would do well to understand a little better what religion means , before they take upon them to disgrace and defame it ; and let them not discover their lamentable rawness and ignorance , by laughing at its folly and meanness , till they can first prove a base and selfish spirit to be more noble and generous , than an universal love and charity ; pride and luxury to be more amiable than sweetness and ingenuity ; revenge and impatience more honourable than discretion and civility ; excess and debauchery more healthful than temperance and sobriety : to be enslaved to their lusts and passions more manly , than to live by the rules of reason and prudence ; malice and injustice to be more graceful and becoming a gentile behaviour , than kindness and benignity ; and the horrors of an amazed spirit to be fuller of pleasure and felicity , than that peace and calmness of mind that springs from the reflections of an exact conscience . till all this , and much more is made good , that is , till all the maxims of folly and wisdom are changed , let them be civil , and modest , and not scorn too confidently . and though all this could be done , yet , as for their parts they will be so far from ever performing it , that they will never be at the pains of attempting it ; and if they should , 't is ( god knows ) too great a work for their little understandings . and therefore i appeal to all the wise and sober world , whether they that would make religion ridiculous , are not infinitely so themselves ? whether to consute it with raillery and bold iests , be not as void of wit as reason ? and whether all the folly and madness in the world can equal this of these scoffing atheists ? and thus having scourged their ignorance and presumption with severity enough , i shall forbear either to expose them for their pedantry , or to lash them for their rudeness and ill manners : though what can be more pedantick , than to be so big with every little conceit , as to be in labour to vent it in every company ? and a pert school-boy is scarce more troublesome with a petty criticism against mr. lilly , than these truantly youths are with any singular exception , that they have picked up against the holy scriptures . they cannot meet with a person of any reputation for learning , but they must be pecking at him with their objections ; and if he slight their impertinent pratings ( as all discreet men do ) then the next time they meet their dear hearts , with what triumphant shrugs do they boast their success against the man in black , and so laugh and drink themselves into confidence and folly ! and then , as for their want of manners , what deportment can be more course and clownish than to affect to be offensive to all discreet men , and to delight to loath and nauseate all civil company with the filthiness of their discourse ? a behaviour more irkesom to a gentleman of any breeding and civility , than the buffoonry of hostlers and porters . they can scarce meet with a clergy-man , but they must be pelting him with oaths , or ribaldry , or atheistical drollery ; i. e. they study to annoy him with such discourse , as he is obliged ( though he were inwardly as great a villain as themselves ) to detest by his place and profession : a piece of breeding much like his , that would have refused to entertain a vestal with any other discourse , than by describing the rites of priapus , or the lascivious arts of cleopatra . and so i leave them to the correction of the publick rods : and 't is high time that authority check , and chastise the wantonness of this boyish humour . for the infection spreads and grows fashionable , and creeps out of cities into villages . to impeach religion is become the first exercise of wit , in which young gentlemen are to be disciplined ; and atheism is the only knowledge and accomplishment they gain by a gentile education ; and they have nothing to make them fancy themselves more witty and refined people , than illiterate peasants and mechanicks , but a readiness and pregnancy to rally upon religion : and he is a raw youth , and smells rank of his grandame and his catechism , that cannot resolve all the articles of his faith into the cheats and impostures of priests . and thus they live here till they have sinned , or fooled away all sense of honour and conscience ; and so return home useless , and unserviceable to their countrey ; and if they turn sots , they may prove less dangerous : but if not , they are prepared for any designs of mischief and publick disturbance . for at the same time they shake hands with religion , they bid adieu to loyalty ; in that whilst they own no tyes of conscience , they know no honesty but advantage ; and interest is the only endearment of their duty to their prince : and therefore , when-ever this happens to run counter to their loyalty , 't is then the strongest and most effectual inducement to any attempts of treason , and rebellion . and thus they may prove good subjects , as rogues and out-laws are , who will be honest when 't is their interest ; but when 't is not , then any thing is their duty , that contributes to their security . and with these men in all civil wars and dissentions of state , the strongest side has always the justest cause ; and if rebels prove successful against their lawful prince , they gain their assistance . and to these principles we must ascribe the unhappy success of the late rebellion : the silly and well meaning zealots were only abused by sly and crafty incendiaries for the compassing of their own ambitious ends , and by their councils only was the cause managed , advanced , and finished ; till they raised their own fortunes upon the ruines of the royal interest , and establish'd themselves in the royal power and dignity . and though the men and their designs are perished , yet their principles thrive and propagate ; and 't is strange , yet easie to observe , how the contempt of religion works men into a dislike of monarchy ; and i scarce ever met with any zealous common-wealths-man , whom i could not easily discover to have more of the atheist than the politician ; in brief , all men of this perswasion are so far from being inclined to love their prince , that they are engaged by their very principles to hate the vsurper : for , take away the divine institution of government , and the obligations of conscience to obedience , and then all government is vsurpation , and all sense of obedience folly : and princes have no other right to their crowns , but what is founded upon force and violence ; their empire was first gain'd by wars , butcheries , and massacres ; their diadems hang upon their swords ; and their thrones stand deep in humane blood ; and all kingdoms are nothing but societies of slaves and tyrants ; and if any subject can set himself free from his sovereigns oppression , he is the braver man ; and when he can win his crown , he deserves to wear it . and there is no man that laughs at the folly of religion , who is not angry at the superstition of government . and therefore i leave it to authority to consider , how much it concerns them to restrain the insolence of this wanton humour ; and to punish those , who make it their business to propagate irreligious principles , as the worst and most dangerous enemies to the state. but my scorn and indignation against the presumptuous lavishness of these redoubted wight swells this preface to too large and tedious a length ; and therefore , i shall only crave leave to premise this one caution for the advantage of the ensuing treatise , and so have done ; viz. that in the management of this debate , i have been careful to confine my discourse to the weightiest and most material considerations , and have industriously waved all matters of an inferiour and subordinate importance . for to what purpose is it to examine every little exception , and every gay and plausible appearance ; when the enquiry is so clearly determinable , by arguments of the greatest evidence and concernment ? and therefore i have only represented the inconsistency of liberty of conscience , with the first and fundamental laws of government . in which if i have spoken reason , i have , without any more ado , carried the cause ; if i have not , i am content to lose my labour . for there are no considerations of equal evidence and importance with those that relate to the peace and settlement of societies : so that , if those i have urged prove ineffectual , all others , drawn from less considerable topicks , would have been impertinent ; and so far from strengthning my discourse , that they would rather have abated of its demonstrative truth and evidence : for being in their own natures not capable of such enforcing and convictive proofs , to mix them with clearer and more certain reasonings , were only to allay their strength , and dilute their perspicuity . and for this reason have i purposely omitted the examination of that argument , that so strongly possesses the warm and busie brains of some undertaking men , viz. that liberty of conscience would be mightily conducive to the advancement of trade . for whether it be so , or so , it matters not , after it is proved to be apparently destructive of the peace of kingdoms . and though perhaps it might be no difficult task to prove the vanity of their conceit , yet , after this performance , it would be at least a trifling and frivolous undertaking ; because no man can be so utterly forsaken of all reason and discretion , as to think of promoting traffick by any ways that are destructive of the ends and interest of government . and therefore , if i have sufficiently proved , that liberty of conscience is so ; 't is but an idle speculation after that to enquire , what service it would do to the advancement of trade : because 't is already proved inconsistent with a greater good , than all the advantages of commerce can amount to . so that granting these projecting people all they can demand , and supposing their design as serviceable to the benefits of trade , as they pretend ; yet , what can be more shamefully imprudent , than to put the kingdom upon so great an hazard for so small an advantage ? certainly publick peace and settlement ( that is the first and fundamental end of all societies ) is to be valued above any advantages of wealth and trading : and therefore , if liberty of conscience as naturally tends to the disturbance of government , as it can to the advancement of trade ( if any thing may be supposed to contribute to the wealth of a nation that tends to the dissolution of its peace ) so vast a mischief must infinitely out-weigh this , and a thousand other lesser advantages : for there is nothing in the world of value enough to balance against peace , but peace it self . and therefore i confess i cannot but smile when i observe how some , that would be thought wonderfully grave and solemn statesmen , labour with mighty projects of setting up this and that manufacture , in their several respective towns and corporations ; and how eagerly they pursue these petty attempts beyond the great affairs of a more publick and vniversal concernment ; and how wisely they neglect the settlement of a whole nation , for the benefit of a village or burrough . if indeed the affairs of the kingdom were in a fix'd and establish'd condition , these attempts might then have been seasonable ; and the enriching of particular places would be an accession to the wealth and power of the whole kingdom . but whilst we are distracted among our selves , with such a strange variety of iealousies and animosities ; whilst the publick peace and settlement is so unluckily defeated by quarrels and mutinies of religion ; and whilst the consciences of men are acted by such peevish and ungovernable principles ; to erect and encourage trading combinations , is only to build so many nests of faction and sedition , and to enable these giddy and humoursom people to create publick disturbances . for 't is notorious , that there is not any sort of people so inclinable to seditious practices as the trading part of a nation ; and their pride and arrogance naturally increases with the improvement of their stock . and , if we reflect upon our late miserable distractions , 't is easie to observe , how the quarrel was chiefly hatch'd in the shops of tradesmen , and cherish'd by the zeal of prentice-boys , and city-gossips . and hence it is , that the fanatick party appears so vastly numerous and considerable , above and beyond their real number , partly because these bold and giddy people live in greater societies of men , and so are more observable ; whereas in country towns and villages their account is inconsiderable , and arises not ( to speak within compass ) above the proportion of one to twenty ; and partly because in those places where these vermine naturally breed and swarm , they are always most talkative , and clamorous , and full of buzze : and therefore , though their party be much the least , and the meanest interest ; yet whilst their number is conjectured by their noise , they make a greater appearance , than twice as many sober and peaceable men . riots and tumults are much more remarkable , than societies of quiet and composed people ; and a rout of unlucky boys and girls raise a greater noise ( especially when they wrangle among themselves ) than all the parish beside . but whether they are more or less considerable , 't is a very odd and preposterous piece of policy , to design the inriching of this sort of people , whilst their heads are distemper'd with religious lunacies : for it only puts weapons into the hands of madmen , wherewith they may assault their governours . their fundamental principles incline them to perverse and restless dispositions , that never are , nor will be , satisfied with any establish'd frame of things : and if the affairs of religion are not exactly model'd to their own nice and peremptory conceptions , that is ground enough to overturn the present settlement , and to new model the church by a more thorow reformation . now whilst men are under the power of this proud and peevish humour , wealth does but only pamper and encourage their presumption , and tempt them to a greater boldness and insolence against authority . and if their seditious preachers do but blow the trumpet to reformation ( i. e. to have every thing alter'd they dislike ) how easily may they fire these heady people into tumults and outrages ? how eagerly will they flow into their party in spight of all the power and opposition of their governours ? and how prodigally will they empty their bags , and bring in even their bodkins and thimbles , and spoons to carry on the cause ? he is a very silly man , and understands nothing of the follies , passions , and inclinations of humane nature , who fees not that there is no creature so ungovernable , as a wealthy fanatick . and therefore let not men flatter themselves with idle hopes of settlement , any other way , than by suppressing all these dissentions , and reducing the minds of men to an agreement and vnity in religious worship . for it is just as impossible to keep different factions of religion quiet and peaceable , as it is to make the common people wise men and philosophers . if indeed we could suppose them sober and discreet , it were then no great danger to leave them to their liberty ; but upon the same supposition we may as well let them loose from all the laws of government and policy : because if every private man had wit & honesty enough to govern himself and his own actions , there would be no need of publick laws and governours . and yet upon this impossible presumption stand all the pretenses for liberty of conscience , that , if men were permitted it , they would use it wisely and peaceably ; than which 't is hard to suppose a greater impossibility . for the conscience of the multitude is the same thing with their wisdom and discretion : and therefore , 't is as natural for them to fall into the snare of an abused and vicious conscience , as 't is to be rash & foolish : for an erroneous conscience is but one sort of folly , that relates to the iudgment of their moral actions ; in which they are as ignorant , and as likely to mistake as in any other affairs of humane life . there is no observation in the world establish'd upon a more certain and universal experience , than that the generality of mankind are not so obnoxious to any sort of follies and vices , as to wild and unreasonable conceits of religion ; and that , when their heads are possess'd with them , there are no principles so pregnant with mischief and disturbance as they . and if princes would but consider , how liable mankind are to abuse themselves with serious and conscientious villanies , they would quickly see it to be absolutely necessary to the peace and happiness of their kingdoms , that there be set up a more severe government over mens consciences and religious perswasions , than over their vices and immoralities . for , of all villains the well-meaning zealot is the most dangerous : such men have no checks of conscience , nor fears of miscarriage to damp their industry , but their godliness makes them bold and furious ; and , however their attempts succeed , they are sure of the rewards of saints and martyrs . and what so glorious as to lose their lives in the cause of god ? these men are ever prepared for any mischief , if they have but a few active and crafty knaves to manage and set them on : ( and there is never want of such in any common-wealth . ) and there needs no other motive to engage their zeal in any seditious attempt , than to instil into their minds the necessity of a thorow reformation ; and then you may carry them wheresoever you please , and they will never boggle at any mischief , out-rage , or rebellion to advance the cause . and therefore , it concerns the civil magistrate to beware of this sort of people above all others , as a party , that is always ready formed for any publick disturbance . one would think , the world were not now to be taught , that there is nothing so difficult to be managed as godly zeal , or to be appeased as religious dissentions : people ever did , and ever will pursue such quarrels with their utmost rage and fury ; and therefore let us be content to govern the world as it ever has been , and ever must be govern'd ; and not be so fond as to trouble our heads with contriving ways of settling a nation , whilst 't is unsettled by religion . agreement in this is the first , if not the only foundation of peace : and therefore , let that be first established upon firm and lasting principles ; ( which it easily may by severe laws faithfully executed , but otherwise never can . ) but till it is done , 't is just as wise and safe for a prince to enrich his subjects with trade and commerce , as 't is to load weak and unfinished foundations with great and weighty superstructures . to conclude , all arguments are to be considered in their proper place , and order : and 't is but an unskilful , and inartificial way of discoursing , to argue from less weighty and considerable matters against the first and fundamental reasons of things ; and yet of this preposterous method are those men guilty , who talk of the interests of trade in opposition to the interests of government : and therefore for a fuller answer to this , and all other the like pretenses , i shall now refer the reader to my book ; where i think i have proved enough to satisfie any man of an ordinary understanding , that indulgence and toleration is the most absolute sort of anarchy , and that princes may with less hazard give liberty to mens vices and debaucheries , than to their consciences . as for my method , 't is plain and familiar , and suited to every man's capacity ; i have reduced the state of the controversie to a few easie and obvious propositions ; under these i have couch'd all the particular matters concern'd in our present debates , and by analogy to their reasonableness have cleared off all difficulties and objections ; and have been careful all along to prove the absolute necessity of what i assert from the most important ends and designs of government , compared with the natural passions and inclinations of mankind . and whoever offers to talk of these affairs without special regard both to the nature of government , and to the nature of man , may amuse himself with the fine dreams and hypotheses of a warm brain ; but shall be certain to miss the necessary rules of life , and the most useful measures of practicable policy ; that are suited only to the humours and passions of men , and designed only to prevent their follies , and bridle their enormities . and therefore the main notion i have pursued has been to make out , how dangerous a thing liberty of conscience is , considering the tempers , and tendencies of humane nature , to the most necessary ends and designs of government . a vein of which reasoning i have been careful to run through all parts and branches of my discourse , it being vastly the most considerable , if not the only thing to be attended to in this enquiry . and as i have kept close to my main question , so have i cautiously avoided all other collateral and unnecessary disputes ; and have not confined my self to any hypothesis , nor determined any controversie , in which it was not immediately concern'd ; but have expressed my reasonings in so general terms , as that they might be equally forcible upon the minds of all men , of howsoever different perswasions in all other matters . and now i have no other favour , or civility , to request of the reader , than that he would suspend his iudgment , till he have seriously perused , and weighed all parts of the following treatise : but , if he shall pass sentence upon any part , before he has considered the whole , he will in all probability put himself to the pains of raising those objections , i have already answered to his hand ; and perhaps the next thing he condemns may be his own rashness . chap. i. a more general account of the necessity of an ecclesiastical power , or sovereignty over conscience in matters of religion . the contents . the competition between the power of princes , and the consciences of subjects , represented . the mischiefs that unavoidably follow upon the exemption of conscience from the iurisdiction of the supreme power . the absolute necessity of its being subject in affairs of religion to the governours of the common-wealth . this proved at large , because religion has the strongest influence upon the peace of kingdoms , and the interests of government . religion is so far from being exempted from the restraints of laws and penalties , that nothing more requires them . 't is more easie to govern mens vices than their consciences , because all men are bold and confident in their perswasions . the remiss government of conscience has ever been the most fatal miscarriage in all common-wealths . impunity of offenders against ecclesiastical laws , the worst sort of toleration . the mischiefs that ensue upon the permitting men the liberty of their consciences are endless . fanaticism a boundless folly. affairs of religion as they must be subject to the supreme civil power , so to none other . the civil and ecclesiastical iurisdictions issue from the same necessity of nature , and are founded upon the same reason of things . a brief account of the original of civil power . the original of ecclesiastical power the same . in the first ages of the world , the kingly power and priestly function were always vested in the same persons , and why . when they were separated in the iewish state , the supremacy was annexed to the civil power . and so continued until , and after our saviours birth . no need of his giving princes any new commission to exercise that power , that was antecedently vested in them by so unquestionable a right . and therefore the scripture rather supposes than asserts it . the argument against penal laws in religion from the practice of our saviour and his apostles , answered and confuted . the ecclesiastical iurisdiction of princes not derived from any grant of our saviours , but from the natural and antecedent rights of all sovereign power . christ and his apostles could not use any coercive iurisdiction , because they acted in the capacity of subjects . their threatnings of eternity carry in them as much compulsion upon conscience , as secular punishments . the power of the church purely spiritual . in the first ages of the christian church god supplied its want of civil iurisdiction by immediate and miraculous inflictions from heaven . diseases of the body the usual consequences of excommunication . and this had the same effect as temporal punishments . all this largely proved out of the writings of st. paul. when the emperors became christian , the ecclesiastical iurisdiction was reannext to the civil power . and so continued till the vsurpation of the bishops of rome . how since the reformation the ecclesiastical power of princes has been invaded by some pragmatical divines . their confidence has scared princes out of their natural rights . of the clause of exception annexed to the jejunium cecilianum . how the puritans used it to countenance all their unruly and seditious practices . a conclusion drawn from all the premisses for the absolute necessity of the ecclesiastical power of princes . § . notwithstanding that conscience is the best , if not the only security of government , yet has government never been controul'd or disturb'd so much by any thing as conscience . this has ever rival'd princes in their supremacy , and pretends to as uncontroulable an authority over all the actions and affairs of humane life , as the most absolute and unlimited power durst ever challenge . are governours gods vicegerents ? so is this . have they a power of deciding all controversies ? so has this . can they prescribe rules of virtue and goodness to their subjects ? so may this . can they punish all their criminal actions ? so can this . and are they subject and accountable to god alone ? so is this , that owns no superiour but the lord of consciences . and of the two conscience seems to be the greater sovereign , and to govern the larger empire . for whereas the power of princes is restrain'd to the outward actions of men , this extends its dominion to their inward thoughts : its throne is seated in their minds , and it exercises all that authority over their secret and hidden sentiments , that princes claim over their publick and visible practices . and upon this account is it set up upon all occasions to grapple with the scepters and swords of princes , and countermand any laws , they think good to prescribe ; and whenever subjects have a mind to controul or disobey their decrees , this is immediately prest and engaged to their party , and does not only dictate , but vouches all their remonstrances . do subjects rebel against their sovereign ? 't is conscience that takes up arms. do they murder kings ? 't is under the conduct of conscience . do they separate from the communion of the church ? 't is conscience that is the schismatick . do they tye themselves by one oath to contradict and evacuate another ? 't is conscience that imposes it . every thing any man has a mind to , is his conscience ; and murther , treason , and rebellion plead its authority . the annals and histories of all times and places are too sad a witness , that this great and sacred thing has ever been abused , either through the folly of some , or hypocrisie of others , to patronize the most desperate mischiefs , and villanies , that were ever acted . § . here then we see is a competition between the prerogative of the prince , and that of conscience , i. e. every private mans own judgment and perswasion of things : the judgment of the magistrate inclines him to command , that of the subject to disobey ; and the dictates of his conscience countermand the decrees of his prince . now is there not likely to be untoward doings , when two supreme powers thus clash and contradict each other ? for what power would be left to princes , if every private mans perswasion ( for that is his conscience ) may give check to their commands ? most mens minds or consciences are weak , silly , and ignorant things , acted by fond and absurd principles , and imposed upon by their vices and their passions ; so that were they entirely left to their own conduct , in what mischiefs and confusions must they involve all societies ? let authority command what it please , they would do what they list . and what is this but a state of perfect anarchy , in which every man does what is good in his own eyes ? and therefore whilst men contend for the sovereign empire of their consciences , and invest it with the royal supremacy , by making it subject and accountable to none but god alone , they do in effect but usurp their prince's crown , defie his authority , and acknowledge no governour but themselves . for seeing that conscience is nothing but the judgment and opinion of their own actions , if this be exempt from the commands of governours , and if men not only may , but always ought to comply with their own dictates , when they oppose their decrees , 't is easie to determine whether themselves or their governors be vested with the supreme authority . in brief , every single person is subject to two supreme powers , the laws of his prince , and the dictates of his conscience , i. e. to his own and his princes opinion : and therefore if the supreme power of the prince must give place to that of his conscience , it ceases upon that score to be supreme ; because there is a superior authority that can countermand all its laws and constitutions . what then is to be done in this case ? who shall arbitrate between these two mighty rival powers , and so justly assign the true bounds of their respective dominions ; that princes may never intrench upon the rights of conscience , nor conscience lay waste the rights of princes , but both may act within their proper spheres without invading each others territories ? for whenever their powers happen to interfere , the quarrel quickly proceeds to all the mischiefs and confusions of war. for there is not any thing so tender , or so unruly as conscience : if authority curb it too severely , it grows wild and furious , and impatient of all restraints ; if it permit it an unbridled liberty , it soon runs it self into all the mischiefs and enormities in the world . and therefore it must be managed with equal tenderness and severity : and as it must be guided by wise and sober laws , else it grows giddy and exorbitant ; so must it not be provoked to resistance by tyranny and oppression : for if it once put the sword into subjects hands , it proves of all rebels the most fatal and implacable , and is the best commander of a rebellious army in the world . we see then that 't is a matter of equal difficulty and importance to avoid all the mischiefs and calamities that naturally follow upon the contentions of these two supreme powers . 't is difficult to bring them to terms of accommodation , because neither of them will own any superiour that may umpire their controversie ; and yet that this should be done is absolutely necessary to the peace , settlement , and tranquillity of all common-wealths . § . and therefore 't is the design of this discourse by a fair and impartial debate to compose all their differences , adjust all their quarrels and contentions , and settle things upon their true and proper foundations . which i think may be effectually enough perform'd by these two considerations . . by proving it to be absolutely necessary to the peace and government of the world , that the supreme magistrate of every common-wealth should be vested with a power to govern and conduct the consciences of subjects in affairs of religion . . by shewing this to be so certain and undoubted a truth , that it is and must be acknowledged by its fiercest adversaries ; and that those who would deprive the supreme civil power of its authority in reference to the conduct of the worship of god , are forced to allow it in other more material parts of religion ; though they are both liable to the same inconveniences and objections . and this will oblige me to state the true extent of the magistrates power over conscience in reference to divine worship , by shewing it to be the very same with his power over conscience in matters of morality , and all other affairs of religion . under one of which two considerations i shall have occasion to state the most material questions , and to answer the most considerable objections , that occur in this controversie . and i do not question but things may be made out with that demonstrative evidence , and settled upon such safe and moderate principles , as may abundantly satisfie every mans conscience , how nice and curious soever , provided it be not debauch'd with vice , and wicked principles ; . but if it be , then 't is easie to make it appear both the magistrates duty and interest to punish such vicious and diseased conscience as much as all other immorality . § . first then 't is absolutely necessary to the peace and tranquillity of the commonwealth , which , though it be the prime and most important end of government , can never be sufficiently secured , unless religion be subject to the authority of the supreme power , in that it has the strongest influence upon humane affairs ; and therefore if the sovereign power cannot order and manage it , it would be but a very incompetent instrument of publick happiness , would want the better half of it self , and be utterly weak and ineffectual for the ends of government . for 't is certain , nothing more governs the minds of men than the apprehensions of religion : this leads or drives them any way . and as true piety secures the publick weal by taming and civilizing the passions of men , and inuring them to a mild , gentle and governable spirit : so superstition and wrong notions of god and his worship , are the most powerful engines to overturn its settlement . and therefore unless princes have power to bind their subjects to that religion that they apprehend most advantageous to publick peace and tranquillity , and restrain those religious mistakes that tend to its subversion ; they are no better than statues and images of authority , and want that part of their power that is most necessary to a right discharge of their government . for what if the minds of men happen to be tainted with such furious and boysterous conceptions of religion , as incline them to stubborness and sedition , and make them unmanageable to the laws of government ; shall not a prince be allowed to give check to such unruly and dangerous perswasions ? if he may , then 't is clear that he is endued with a power to conduct religion , and that must be subject to his dominion , as well as all other affairs of state. but if he may not , then is he obliged in some cases tamely to permit his subjects to ruine and overturn the common-wealth . for if their wild and capricious humours are not severely bridled by the strictest laws and penalties , they soon grow headstrong and unruly , become always troublesome , and often fatal to princes . the minds of the multitude are of a fierce and eager temper , apt to be driven without bounds and measures , whithersoever their perswasions hurry them : and when they have overheated their unsettled heads with religious rage and fury , they grow wild , talkative and ungovernable ; and in their mad and raving fits of zeal break all the restraints of government , and forget all the laws of order and sobriety . religion sanctifies all their passions : anger , malice , and bitterness are holy fervors in the cause of god. this cancels and dispenses with all the obligations of sobriety : and what has prudence to do with religion ? this is too hot and eager to be tyed up to its flat and dull formalities . zeal for the glory of god will both excuse and justifie any enormity . there can be no faction or rebellion in carrying on the interests of the godly party , and the great work of a thorough reformation must not be trusted to the care of carnal and lukewarm politicians . and by these and the like pretences do they easily destroy the reverence of all things sacred and civil , to propagate any wild propositions ; are arm'd with religion , and led on by the spirit of god to disturb the publick peace , kill kings , and overthrow kingdoms . and this has ever been the bane and reproach of religion in all times and places : and there is scarce a nation in the world that has not felt the miseries and confusions of an holy war : and the annals of all ages are full of sad stories to this purpose . § . and therefore to exempt religion and the consciences of men from the authority of the supreme power is but to expose the peace of kingdoms to every wild and fanatick pretender , who may , when ever he pleases , under pretences of reformation thwart and unsettle government without controul ; seeing no one can have any power to restrain the perswasions of his conscience . and religion will be so far from being at liberty from the authority of the civil power , that nothing in the world will be found to require more of its care and influence , because there is not any other vice to which the vulgar sort of men are more prone , than to superstition or debauched conceptions concerning god and his worship , nor any that more inclines them to an unruly and seditious temper . it inflames their crazy heads with a furious and sectarian zeal , and adopts their rankest and most untoward passions into the duties of religion . and when passion becomes holy , then it can never be exorbitant ; but the more furious and ungovernable it is , so much the more vehement is their zeal for the glory of god ; and they that are most peevish and refractory , are upon that account the most godly . and then all passion and stubbornness in religious quarrels must be christned zeal , all zeal must be sacred , and nothing that is sacred can be excessive . and now when men act furiously upon these mistakes ( as all that are possessed with them must ) what can the issue be but eternal miseries and confusions ? every opinion must make a sect , and every sect a faction , and every faction , when it is able , a war , and every war is the cause of god , and the cause of god can never be prosecuted with too much violence . and then all sobriety is lukewarmness , to be obedient to government carnal complyance , and not to proceed to rebellion for carrying on the great work of a thorough reformation , is to want zeal for the glory of god. and thus are their vices sanctified by their consciences , malice , folly , and madness are ever the prevailing ingredients of their superstitious zeal , and religion only obliges them to be more sturdy and impudent against the laws of government ; and they are now encouraged to cherish those passions in spight of authority , from which the severity of laws might effectually have restrain'd them , were it not for the cross obligations of an untoward conscience . § . and for this reason is it , that 't is found so nice and difficult a thing to govern men in their perswasions about religion , beyond all the other affairs and transactions of humane life ; because erroneous consciences are bold and confident enough to outface authority : whereas persons of debauch'd and scandalous lives , being condemn'd by their own consciences as well as the publick laws , can have nothing to bear them up against the will of their superiors , and restraints of government . but when mens minds are possest with such unhappy principles of religion as are more destructive of the peace and order of civil society than open lewdness and debauchery , and when the vertues of the godly are more pregnant with villany and mischief than the vices of the wicked , and when their consciences are satisfied in their mischievous and ungovernable perswasions , and when they seriously believe that they approve themselves to god by being refractory and irreclamable in their fanatick zeal , then how easie is it to defie authority , and trample upon all its threatnings and penalities ? and those laws , that would awe a prophane and irreligious person at least into an outward compliance , shall but exasperate a boisterous conscience into a more vehement and seditious disobedience . now when 't is so difficult for magistrates either to remove these religious vices , or to bridle their unruliness , they must needs find it an incomparably harder task to restrain the extravagancies of zeal , than of lewdness and debauchery . and therefore seeing the multitude is so inclinable to these mistakes of religion , and seeing , when they are infected with them , they grow so turbulent and unruly , i leave it to governours themselves to judge , whether it does not concern them with as much vigilance and severity either to prevent their rise or suppress their growth , as to punish any the foulest crimes of immorality ? and if they would but seriously consider into what exorbitances peevish and untoward principles about religion naturally improve themselves , they could not but perceive it to be as much their concernment to punish them with the severest inflictions , as any whatsoever principles of rebellion in the state. § . and this certainly has ever been one of the most fatal miscarriages of all governours , in that they have not been aware of this fierce and implacable enemy ; but have gone about to govern unruly consciences by more easie and remiss laws , than those that are only able to suppress scandalous and confessed villanies , and have thought them sufficiently restrain'd by threatning punishments , without inflicting them . and indeed in most kingdoms ( so little have princes understood their own interests in reference to religion ) ecclesiastical laws have been set up only for scar-crows , being established rather for shew and form sake , than with any design of giving them life , by putting them into execution ; and if any were so hardy as not to be scared into obedience by the severity of their threatnings , they have been emboldned to disobedience by the remisness of their execution , till they have not only plaid with the law it self as a sensless trifle , but have scorn'd the weakness of the power that set it up . for there is nothing more certain in experience , than that impunity gives not only warranty but encouragement to disobedience ; and by habituating men to controul the edicts of authority , teaches them by degrees to despise it . and this is the main reason why ecclesiastical laws have generally proved such ineffectual instruments of uniformity , because they have either been weakned through want of execution , or in a manner cancell'd by the oppositions of civil constitutions . for when laws are bound under severe penalties , and when the persons , who are to take cognisance of the crime , have not power enough to punish it , or are perpetually check'd and controul'd by a stronger power , no wonder if the laws be affronted and despised ; and if , instead of bringing mens minds to compliance and subjection , they exasperate them into open contumacy . restraint provokes their stubbornness , and yet redresses not the mischief . and therefore it were better to grant an uncontroul'd liberty by declaring for it , than , after having declared against it , to grant it by silence and impunity . the prohibition disobliges dissenters , and that is one evil ; and the impunity allows them toleration , and that is a greater : and where governours permit , what their laws forbid , there the common-wealth must at once lose all the advantages of restraint , and suffers all the inconveniences of liberty . so that as they would expect peace and settlement , they must be sure at first to bind on their ecclesiastical laws with the streightest knot , and afterward to keep them in force and countenance by the severest execution ; in that wild and fanatick consciences are too headstrong to be curb'd with an ordinary severity ; & therefore their restraints must be proportion'd to their unruliness : and they must be managed with so much a greater care and strictness , than all other principles of publick disturbance , by how much they are more dangerous & unruly . § . for if conscience be ever able to break down the restraints of government , and all men have licence to follow their own perswasions , the mischief is infinite , and the folly endless ; and they seldom cease to wander from folly to folly , till they have run themselves into all the whimsies and enormities , that can debauch religion , or annoy the publick peace . the giddy multitude are of a restless and stragling humour ; and yet withalso ignorant and injudicious , that there is nothing so strange and uncouth , which they will not take up with zeal and confidence : insomuch that there never yet was any common-wealth , that gave a real liberty to mens imaginations , that was not suddenly over-run with numberless divisions , and subdivisions of sects : as was notorious in the late confusions , when liberty of conscience was laid as the foundation of settlement . how was sect built upon sect , and church upon church , till they were advanced to such a height of folly , that the usurpers themselves could find no other way to work their subversion , and put an end to their extravagancies , but by overturning their own foundations , and checking their growth by laws and penalties ? the humour of fanaticising is a boundless folly , it knows no restraints ; and if it be not kept down by the severity of governours , it grows and encreases without end , or limit , and never ceases to swell it self , till it has broke down all the banks and restraints of government . thus when the disciplinarians had in pursuit of their own peevish and unreasonable principles divided from the church of england , others upon a farther improvement of the same principles subdivided from them ; every new opinion was enough to found a new church , and sect was spawn'd out of sect , till there were almost as many churches as families : for when they were once parted from the order & sobriety of the church they lived in , nothing could set bounds to their wild and violent imaginations . § . schismaticks always run themselves into the same excess in the church as rebels and seditious persons do in the state , who out of a hatred to tyranny are restless till they have dissolved the common-wealth into anarchy & confusion ; and , because some kingly governments have proved tyrannical , will allow no free states but under republicks . as was notorious in all the apologies for the late usurpers , who took it for granted in general , that all government under a single person was slavish and oppressive without respect to its particular constitutions ; and that the very name of a common-wealth was a sufficient preservation of the peoples liberties , notwithstanding that those who managed it were never so imperious and arbitrary in the exercise of their power . and in the same manner our church dissenters , out of abhorrency to the papal tyranny and usurpation upon mens understandings , never think the liberty of their consciences sufficiently secured , till they have shaken off all subjection to humane authority : and because the church of rome by her unreasonable impositions has invaded the fundamental liberties of mankind , they presently conclude all restraints upon licentious practices and perswasions about religion under the hated name of popery . and some theological empericks have so possess'd the peoples heads with this fond conceit , that they will see no middle way between spiritual tyranny , and spiritual anarchy , and so brand all restraint of government in affairs of religion as if it were antichristian , and never think themselves far enough from rome , till they are wandred as far as munster . whereas the church of england in her first reformation was not so wild as to abolish all ecclesiastical authority , but only removed it from those who had unjustly usurp'd it to its proper seat , and restrain'd it within its due bounds and limits : and because the church of rome had clogg'd christianity with too many garish and burdensome ceremonies , they did not immediately strip her naked of all modest and decent ornaments out of an over-hot opposition to their too flanting pomp and vanity , but only cloathed her in such a dress , as became the gravity and sobriety of religion . and this is the wisdom and moderation of our church to preserve us sober between two such unreasonable extremes . § . but not to run too hastily into particular disputes , 't is enough at present to have proved in general the absolute necessity that affairs of religion should be subject to government ; and then if they be exempt from the jurisdiction of the civil power , i shall demand , whether they are subject to any other power , or to none at all ? if the former , then the supreme power is not supreme , but is subject to a superiour in all matters of religion , or rather ( what is equally absurd ) there would be two supreme powers in every common-wealth ; for it the princes jurisdiction be limited to civil affairs , and the concerns of religion be subject to another government , then may subjects be obliged to ( what is impossible ) contradictory commands : and at the same time the civil magistrate requires him to defend his country against an invasion , the ecclesiastical governour may command him to abandon its defence , for the carrying on an holy war in the holy land , in order to the recovery of our saviour's sepulchre from the possession of the turks and saracens . but seeing no man can be subject to contradictory obligations , 't is by consequence utterly impossible he should be subject to two supreme powers . if the latter , then the former argument returns ; and as to one half of the concerns of the common-wealth there must be a perfect anarchy , and no government at all . and there is no provision to be made against all those publick mischiefs and disturbances that may arise from errors and enormities in religion ; the common-wealth must for ever be exposed to the follies of enthusiasts , and villanies of impostors ; and any man , that can but pretend conscience , may whenever he pleases endeavour its ruine : so that if princes should forego their sovereignty over mens consciences in matters of religion , they leave themselves less power than is absolutely necessary to the peace & defence of the common-wealths they govern . in brief , the supreme government of every common-wealth , wherever it is lodged , must of necessity be universal , absolute , and uncontroulable , in all afairs whatsoever , that concern the interests of mankind , and the ends of government : for if it be limited , it may be controul'd : but 't is a thick and palpable contradiction to call such a power supreme , in that whatever controuls it must as to that case be its superiour . and therefore affairs of religion being so strongly influential upon affairs of state , and having so great a power either to advance or hinder the publick felicity of the common-wealth , they must be as uncontroulably subject to the supreme power as all other civil concerns ; because otherwise it will not have authority enough to secure the publick interest of the society , to attain the necessary and most important ends of its institution . § . now from these premisses we may observe , that all supreme power ; both in civil and ecclesiastical affairs , issues from the same original , and is founded upon the same reason of things ; namely the indispensable necessity of society to the preservation of humane nature , and of government to the preservation of humane society : a supreme power being absolutely necessary to the decision of all those quarrels and controversies , that are naturally consequent upon the passions , appetites , and follies of men , there being no other way of ending their differences but by the decrees of a final & unappealable judicature . for if every man were to be his own judge , mens determinations would be as contradictory as their judgments , & their judgments as their humours or interests ; and so must their dissentions of necessity be endless : and therefore to avoid these and all other inconveniences that would naturally follow upon a state of war , it was necessary there should be one supreme and publick judgment , to whose determinations the private judgment of every single person should be obliged to submit it self . and hence the wisdom of providence , knowing to what passions and irregularities mankind is obnoxious , never suffered them to live without the restraints of government ; but in the beginning of things so ordered affairs , that no man could be born into the world without being subject to some superior : every father being by nature vested with a right to govern his children . and the first governments in the world were established purely upon the natural rights of paternal authority , which afterward grew up to a kingly power by the increase of posterity ; and he that was at first but father of a family , in process of time , as that multiplied , became father of a city , or province : and hence it came to pass that in the first ages of the world , monarchy was its only government , necessarily arising out of the constitution of humane nature , it being so natural for families to enlarge themselves into cities by uniting into a body according to their several kindreds , whence by consequence the supreme head of those families must become prince and governour of a larger & more diffused society . and therefore cedrenus makes adam the first monarch in the world , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . and thus afterwards in the division of the earth among the posterity of noah , the heads of families became kings and monarchs of the nations of which they were founders , from whence were propagated the several kingdoms of the first and elder times ; as appears not only from the mosaick history , but also from all other the best and most ancient records of the first ages of the world : but as for common-wealths , they are comparatively of a very late discovery , being first contriv'd among the grecians , whose democracies and optimacies were made out of the ruines of monarchick government ; which was but sutable to the proud , factious , and capricious humour of that nation , where scarce any one could pretend to a little skill in poetry or wrestling ( their two greatest accomplishments ) but he must immediately be an vndertaker for new modelling the common-wealth ; which doubtless was one of the main causes of their perpetual confusions , and frequent charges in government . § . having thus firmly founded all civil government upon paternal authority , i may now proceed to shew , that all ecclesiastical power bottoms upon the same foundation : for as in the first ages of the world , the fathers of families were vested with a kingly power over their own posterity ; so also were they with the priestly office , executing all the holy functions of priesthood in their own persons , as appears from the unanimous testimony of histories both sacred and prophane . thus we find all the ancient patriarchs priests to their own families ; which office descended together with the royal dignity to the first-born of each family . and this custom of investing the sovereign power with the supreme priesthood , was ( as divers authors both ancient and modern observe ) universally practis'd over all kingdoms of the world for well nigh years , without any one president to the contrary . in that among all societies of men there is as great a necessity of publick worship , as of publick justice ; the power whereof , because it must be seated somewhere , can properly belong to him alone , in whom the supreme power resides ; in that he alone having authority to assign to every subject his proper function , and among others this of the priesthood ; the exercise whereof as he has power to transfer to another , so may he , if he please , reserve it to himself . and therefore this the wisdom of the elder ages always practised , in order to the better security of their government ; as well knowing the tendency of superstition , and false notions of the divine worship , to tumults and seditions ; and therfore , to prevent the disturbances that might spring from factions in religion , they were sollicitous to keep its management in their own immediate disposal . and though in the jewish common-wealth , the priestly office was upon reasons peculiar to that state separated by a divine positive command from the kingly power ; yet the power and jurisdiction of the priest remained still subject to the sovereign prince , their king always exercising a supremacy over all persons , and in all causes ecclesiastical : nothing can be more unquestionable than the precedents of david , solomon , hezekiah , iehu , iehosaphat , iosiah , &c. who exercised as full a legislative power in affairs of religion , as in affairs of state. they alone restrain'd and punish'd whatever tended to the subversion of the publick and establish'd religion ; they suppress'd innovations , reform'd corruptions , ordered the decencies and solemnities of publick worship , instituted new laws and ceremonies , and conducted all the concerns of religion by their own power and authority . now there is nothing that can be pretended against the ecclesiastical jurisdiction of christian magistrates , that might not with as great a shew of reason have been urged against these jewish kings . § . and thus were the affairs of religion in all nations govern'd by the supreme power till our blessed saviour's birth , who came into the world to establish new laws of religion , and not to set up any new models of politie . he came not to unsettle the foundations of government , or to diminish the natural rights of princes , and settle the conduct of humane affairs upon new principles , but left the government of the world in the same condition he found it : all his discourses were directed to private persons , and such whose duty it was to obey , and not command ; and therefore though we find him every where highly solicitous to press men to obedience in general , ( and perhaps it would be no easie task to find out any professors of the art of policy , either ancient or modern , that have carried the doctrine of obedience so high as the sermons of our saviour , and the writings of his apostles ) yet no where he takes upon him to settle , much less to limit the prerogatives of princes ; and therefore the government of religion , being vested in them by an antecedent and natural right , must without all controversie belong to them , till it is derogated from them by some superiour authority : so that unless our saviour had expresly disrobed the royal power of its ecclesiastical jurisdiction , nothing else can alienate it from their prerogative . and therefore 't is no wonder if he left no commands to the civil magistrate for the right government of religion ; for to what purpose should he give them a new commission to exercise that power , that was already so firmly establish'd in the world by the unalterable dictates of natural reason , and universal practice , and consent of nations : it being so clearly inseparable from the supreme power in every common-wealth , that it loses both its supremacy , and its usefulness , unless it be universal and unlimited ? in that the end of all government is to secure the peace and tranquillity of the publick ; and therefore it must have power to manage and order every thing that is serviceable to that end . so that it being so clearly evident from the experience of mankind , and from the nature of the thing it self , that nothing has a stronger influence upon the publick interests of a nation , than the well or ill management of religion ; its conduct must needs be as certain and inseparable a right of the supreme power in every common-wealth , as the legislative authority it self ; without which 't is utterly impossible there should be any government at all . and therefore the scripture seems rather to suppose than assert the ecclesiastical jurisdiction of princes . what else means that promise , that kings shall be nursing fathers to the church of god , unless by their power they may cherish and defend the true religion , and protect it from being destroyed by hereticks and seducers ? what does the scripture mean when it styles our saviour king of kings , and makes princes his vicegerents here on earth ? what means the apostle , when he says , kings are appointed to this end , that under them we may live a quiet and peaceable life , not only in all honesty , but in all godliness too ? where we see , that the propagation of godliness is as much the duty of governours , as the preservation of justice ; neither of which can a prince ( as such ) effectually promote , but by the proper effects of his power , laws and penalties . besides all which , all the power of the common-wealth our saviour lived in , was fall'n into such mens hands , that would be so far from concerning themselves in the defence , protection , and propagation of christianity , that he knew they would exert the utmost of their force to suppress and destroy it . now to what purpose should he entrust them with a commission to govern his church , when he knew they would labour its utter ruine and destruction ? and hence was there no other peaceable method to propagate the christian faith in the world , but by the patience and sufferings of its professors : and therefore our saviour , to secure his religion from the reproach of being factious and seditious against the state , was sollicitous above all things to arm them with meekness and patience ; and to this purpose he gave them glorious promises to encourage their submission to their unhappy fate , and severe injunctions to secure their obedience to all the commands of lawful superiours , except when they run directly cross to the interest of the gospel ; which as the posture of affairs then stood , was incomparably the most effectual , as well as most innocent way of its propagation . § . and therefore 't is but an idle and impertinent plea that some men make for liberty of conscience , when they would restrain the magistrates power so , as to make use of no other means than what our saviour and his apostles used to convince and convert men : an argument that much resembles that , which they urge with so much popular noise and confidence against that little grandeur & authority that is left to the governours of our church ; because forsooth the apostles , by reason of the unhappy juncture of affairs in their times , lived in a mean and persecuted condition ; and therefore what was their calamity , these men would make our duty : but it were to be wished they would pursue their argument to all the purposes for which it may as rationally serve : and so they must sell their lands , and bring the money and lay it at the bishops feet ; they must pass away all their proprieties , and have all things in common , and part them to all men as every man has need , because the primitive christians did so . at so prodigious a rate of impertinency do men talk , when their passions dictate their discourses ; and to so fine a pass would the affairs of christendom be brought by this trifling pretence of reducing the state of the church to its primitive practice in all accidents and circumstances of things . but yet i suppose these men themselves would scarce imitate the practice of our saviour and his apostles in this particular ; for if the scribes and pharisees were now in being , i hope they would not allow them the liberty openly to blaspheme the name of iesus , and to persecute all that would not believe him an impostor ; which though they did familiarly in his own time , yet he never went about to restrain their blasphemies by laws and punishments : and therefore i only demand , whether the civil magistrate may make penal laws against swearing and blasphemy , and such other irreligious debaucheries ? if he may , why then they are matters that as directly and immediately relate to religion , as any rites and ceremonies of worship whatsoever ; and for the government of which they are as utterly to seek for any precedent of our saviour and his apostles . nay more , if this argument were of any force , it would equally deprive the magistrate of any power to compel his subjects to obedience to any of the moral precepts of the gospel by secular laws and punishments ; because our saviour and his apostles never did it : especially when all matters of morality do as really belong to our spiritual concerns , as any thing that relates immediately to divine worship , and affairs of meer religion ; and therefore if the civil magistrate may not compel his subjects to a right way of worship with the civil sword , because this is of a spiritual concernment ( as is pretended : ) upon the same ground , neither may he make use of the same force to compel men to duties of morality , because they also equally relate to their spiritual interests : besides , the magistrates authority in both is founded upon the same principle , viz. the absolute necessity of their due management in order to the peace and preservation of the common-wealth . we derive not therefore his ecclesiastical jurisdiction from any grant of our saviours , but from an antecedent right wherewith all sovereign power was indued before ever he was born into the world ; forasmuch as the same providence , that intrusted princes with the government of humane affairs , must of necessity have vested them in at least as much power , as was absolutely necessary to the nature and ends of government . § . but further yet , all the ways our saviour has appointed in the gospel for the advancement and propagation of religion , were prescribed to subjects , & not to governours ; and this indeed is certain , that no private person can have any power to compel men to any part of the doctrine , worship , or discipline of the gospel ; for if he had , he would upon that very account cease to be a private person , and be vested with a civil power . but that no magistrate may do this , will remain to be proved , till they can produce some express prohibition of our saviour to restrain him : and till that be done , 't is but a strange rate of arguing , when they would prove that magistrates may not use any coercive power to promote the interests of religion , because this is forbidden to their subjects ; especially when 't is to be considered , that christ and his apostles acted themselves in the capacity of subjects to the common-wealth they lived in , and so could neither use themselves , nor impart to others any coercive power for the advancement , and propagation of their doctrine ; but were confined to such prudent and peaceable methods , as were lawful for persons in their condition to make use of , i. e. humble intreaties , and perswasions . our saviour never took any part of the civil power upon himself , and upon that score could not make penal and coercive laws ; the power of coertion being so certainly inseparable from the supreme civil power : but though he back'd not his commandments with temporal punishments , because his kingdom was not of this world ; yet he enforced them with the threatnings of eternity , which carry with them more compulsion upon mens consciences than any civil sanctions can : for the only reason why punishments are annex'd to laws , is because they are strong motives to obedience ; and therefore when our savour tied his laws upon mankind under eternal penalties , he used as much force to drive us to obedience , as if he had abetted them with temporal inflictions : so that the only reason why he bound not the precepts of the gospel upon our consciences by any secular compulsories , was not because compulsion was an improper way to put his laws in execution , for then he had never established them with more enforcing sanctions ; but only because himself was not invested with any secular power , and so could not use those methods of government , that are proper to its jurisdiction . § . and therefore the power , wherewith christ intrusted the governours of his church in the apostolical age , was purely spiritual ; they had no authority to inflict temporal punishments , or to force men to submit to their canons , laws and penalties ; they only declared the laws of god , and denounced the threatnings annexed to them , having no coercive power to inflict the judgments they declared , and leaving the event of their censures to the divine jurisdiction . though alas ! all this was too weak to attain the ends of discipline ( viz. to reclaim the offending person , and by example of his censure to awe others into obedience ) and could have but little influence upon the most stubborn and notorious offenders . for to what purpose should they drive one from the communion of the church , that has already renounced it ? to what purpose should they deny him the instruments and ministries of religion , that cares not for them ? to what purpose should they turn him out of their society , that has already prevented them by forsaking it ? how should offenders be reclaim'd , by being condemn'd to what they chuse ? how should they be scared by threatnings , that they neither fear nor believe ? and if they will turn apostates , how can they be awed back into their faith by being told they are so ? and therefore because of the weakness of this spiritual government to attain the ends of discipline , and because that the governours of the church being subject to those of the common-wealth , they were not capable of any coercive power ; 't is wonderfully remarkable how god himself was pleased to supply their want of civil jurisdiction by his own immediate providence , and in a miraculous manner to inflict the judgments they denounced ; that if their censures could not affright refractory offenders into obedience , his dreadful execution of them might . for 't is notoriously evident from the best records of the primitive and apostolical ages , that the divine providence was pleased to abet the censures of the church by immediate and miraculous inflictions from heaven . in those times torments and diseases of the body were the usual consequents of excommunication ; and this was as effectual to awe men into subjection to the ecclesiastical government , as if it had been endued with coercive iurisdiction . for this consists only in a power of inflicting temporal punishments ; and therefore when the anathema's of the church were attended with such inflictions , criminals must have as much reason to dread the rod of the apostles , as the sword of the civil magistrate , in that it carried with it a power of inflicting temporal penalties , either of death , as on ananias and sapphira , or of diseases , as on elymas the sorcerer . and this is that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 wherewith st. paul so often threatens to lash the factious corinthians into a more quiet and peaceable temper . thus cor. . . what will ye ? shall i come unto you with a rod , or in love , and in the spirit of meekness ? i. e. consider with your selves , that seeing i have determined to visit the church of corinth , whether when i come you had rather i should chastise you with the apostolical rod by exercising my power of inflicting punishments , and by consigning the refractory to those sharp and grievous diseases that are wont immediately to follow apostolical censures ; or whether i should come with a more gentle and merciful design without being forced by your stubborness upon a necessity of using this severity among you ? as you behave your selves , so may you expect to find me at my coming . and thus again , cor. . . he threatens them with his being in a readiness ( if he should come among them ) to revenge all their disobedience : and upon this account he immediately professes himself not ashamed to boast of his power and authority in the church . and in the . chapter of the same epistle , he again shakes the same rod over them , threatning , that if their refractoriness force him to strike them with some judgment , that it should be a sharp and severe one : if i come again i will not spare , since ye seek a proof of christ speaking in me . these extraordinary inflictions were signs and evidences of his apostleship . and he would make them know , that he was commissioned by christ to teach and govern their church , by making them to feel the sad effects of his miraculous power , if nothing else would satisfie them about the right of his authority . and to the same purpose is the same apostles command to the same church concerning the incestuous corinthian , cor. . . that they should deliver him to satan for the destruction of the flesh , i. e. that they should denounce the sentence of excommunication against him , which would amount to no smaller a punishment , than his being resign'd up to the power and possession of some evil spirit , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , chrysost. in . ad cor. hom. . to be tormented with ulcers , or some other bodily diseases and inflictions , which was then the usual consequent of excommunication . the end of all which is , as immediately follows , the destruction of the flesh , that the spirit might be saved in the day of the lord iesus , i. e. that being humbled and brought to a due sense of his sin by the sadness of his condition , and the heavy strokes of this cruel executioner of the divine justice , this might be a means of working him to repentance and reformation . and to the same end did the same apostle deliver hymeneus and alexander unto satan , that they might learn not to blaspheme ; that being vexed and tormented by some evil spirit , this might take down their proud and haughty stomachs , and make them cease to traduce and disparage his apostolical authority , when they had smarted so severely for contradicting it . and thus was the divine providence pleased in the first ages of the church , when it wanted the assistance of the civil magistrate , to supply that defect by his own almighty power : so necessary is a coercive jurisdiction to the due government and discipline of the church , that god himself was fain to bestow it on the apostles in a miraculous manner . and thus was the primitive discipline maintain'd by miracles of severity , as long as it wanted the sword of the civil power . but when christianity had once prevail'd and triumphed over all the oppositions of pagan superstition , and had gain'd the empire of the world into its own possession , and was become the imperial religion , then began its government to re-settle where nature had placed it , and the ecclesiastical jurisdiction was annexed to the civil power : for as soon as the emperours thought themselves concern'd to look to its government , and protection , and were willing to abet the spiritual power of the clergy with their secular authority ; then began the divine providence to withdraw the miraculous power of the church ( in the same manner as he did by degrees all the other extraordinary gifts of the apostolical age , as their necessity ceased ) as being now as well supplied by the natural & ordinary power of the prince . so that though the exercise of the ministerial function still continued in the persons , that were thereunto originally commissioned by our saviour , the exercise of its authority and jurisdiction was restored to the imperial diadem ; and the bishops became then ( as they are now ) ministers of state as well as religion , and challenged not any secular power , but what they derived from the prince : who , supposing them best able to understand and manage the interests of religion , granted them commissions for the government of the church under himself , and vested them with as much coercive power , as was necessary for the execution of their office and jurisdiction : in the same manner as judges are deputed by the supreme authority of every common-wealth to govern the affairs of justice , and to inflict the penalties of the law upon delinquents : so that bishops neither have , nor ever had any temporal authority , but only as they are the kings ecclesiastical judges , appointed by him to govern affairs of religion , as civil or secular judges are to govern affairs of justice . § . and now that the government of all the affairs of the church devolved upon the royal authority assoon as it became christian , is undeniably evident , from all the laws and records of the empire : 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 : from the time that the emperors became christian , the disposal and government of church affairs depended entirely on their authority : constantine was no sooner settled in his imperial throne , but he took the settlement of all ecclesiastical matters into his own cognizance : he called synods and councils , in order to the peace and government of the church , he ratified their canons into laws , he prohibited the conventicles of the donatists , and demolish'd their meeting-houses , he made edicts concerning festivals , the rites of sepulture , the immunities of churches , the authority of bishops , the priviledges of the clergy , and divers other things appertaining to the outward polity of the church . in the exercise of which jurisdiction he was carefully followed by all his successours : which cannot but be known to every man that is not as utterly ignorant of the civil law , as he in the comedy who supposed corpus iuris civilis to be a dutchman . the code , the authenticks , the french capitulars are full of ecclesiastical laws and constitutions . the first book of the code treats of nothing but religion , and the rites and ceremonies of publick worship , the priviledges of ecclesiastical men and things , the distinct offices and functions of the several degrees in the ecclesiastical hierarchy , and the power and jurisdiction of bishops both in civil and religious affairs , and infinite other things that immediately concern the interests of religion . and then as for the authenticks , ecclesiastical laws are every where scattered up and down through the whole volume ; which being divided into nine collations , has not above one ( viz. the fourth ) that has not divers laws relating to church affairs . and as for the capitulars of charles the great , together with the additions of lewis the godly , his son and successour , they contain little else but ecclesiastical constitutions ; as may be seen in lindembrogius his collection of ancient laws , together with divers other laws of theodorick , and other gothish kings . § . and next to the divine providence , we owe the settlement and preservation of christian religion in the world to the conduct of christian princes . for by the time of constantine the primitive spirit and genius of christianity was wearing out of fashion , and the meekness and humility of its first professours began to give place to a furious and tumultuary zeal ; and no sooner did the heats of persecution begin to abate , but the church was presently shattered into swarms of factions by the violent passions and animosities of its members about bare speculations or useless practices : and of all the quarrels that ever disturbed the world , there were never any perhaps so excuseless or so irregular as those of christendom ; of which 't is hard to determine , whether they were commenced with more folly and indiscretion , or pursued with more passion and frowardness . the rage and fierceness of christians had kindled such a fire in the church , that it must unavoidably have been consumed by its own combustions , had not the christian emperours employed all their power to suppress the fury of the flames . and though in spight of all their prudence and industry , christianity was sadly impaired by its own tumults and seditions ; yet had it not been for the care of christian princes , it had in all humane probability been utterly destroyed ; and the flames that had once caught its superstructures , must without remedy have burnt up its very foundations . and if we look into the records and histories of the first christian emperours , we shall find that the most dangerous disturbances that threatned the state , had their beginnings in the church ; and that the empire was more shaken by the intestine commotions that arose from religion , than by foreign wars and invasions . and upon this account is it , that we find them so highly concern'd to reconcile all the discords , and allay all the heats about religion , by silencing needless and unprofitable controversies , determining certain & necessary truths , prescribing decent rites & ceremonies of publick worship , and all other wise and prudent expedients to bring the minds and practices of men to sobriety and moderation . § . and by this means was the outward polity of the church tolerably well established , and the affairs of religion competently well grounded ( though better or worse , according to the wisdom and vigilance of the several emperours ) till the bishops of rome usurp'd one half of the imperial power , and annexed the ecclesiastical jurisdiction and supremacy to their own see. for taking advantage of the distractions occasioned partly by the incursions of the northern nations on the west , partly by the invasions of the turkish power on the east , but mainly by the division of the empire it self , they gain'd either by force or fraud the whole dominion of religion to themselves , and by pretending to the spirit of infallibility , usurp'd an absolute and uncontroulable empire over the faiths and consciences of mankind . and whilst they at first pretended no other title to their sovereignty but what they derived from religion , they were constrain'd to scrue up their power to an unmeasurable tyranny , thereby to secure themselves in those insolencies and indignities wherewith they perpetually affronted the princes of christendom : and knowing the free-born reason of men would never tamely brook to be enslaved to so ignoble a tyranny , they proclaim'd it a traytour or ( what is the same ) a heretick to the catholick faith , and by their lowd noises and menaces frighted it out of christendom . in which design they at length advanced so far , till rome christian became little less fond and superstitious than rome heathen ; and christianity it self was almost debauched to the lowest guise of paganism , and europe , the seat of the most refined and politest part of mankind , was involved in a more than african ignorance and barbarity . and thus did they easily usher in the grand departure and apostasie from religion by the falling away from reason , and founded the roman faith as well as empire upon the ruines of humane liberty . § . in which sad posture continued the affairs of christendom till the reformation : which though it has wrought wonderful alterations in the christian world , yet has it not been able to resettle princes in their full & natural rights , in reference to the concerns of religion . for although the supremacy of the civil power in religious matters be expresly asserted in all the publick confessions of the reformed churches , but especially in that of the church of england ; which is not content barely to affirm it , but denounces the sentence of excommunication against all that deny it : yet by reason of the exorbitant power that some pert and pragmatical divines have gain'd over the minds of the people , this great article has found little or no entertainment in their practices : there starting up a race of proud and imperious men about the beginning of the reformation , who , not regarding the princes power , took upon themselves to frame precise hypotheses of orthodoxy , and to set up their own pedantick systems and institutions for the standards of divine truth ; and wanting , what the other had , the authority of prescription , they pretended to the spirit of god : and this pretence not only excused , but justified any wild theorems they could not prove by sober reason ; and those that would be awed with it , they embraced for orthodox , and those that would not , they branded for hereticks : by which little device they decoyed the silly and ignorant rabble into their own party . the effect of all which has been nothing but a brutish and fanatick ignorance , making men to talk of little else but raptures and extasies , and filling the world with a buzze and noise of the divine spirit ; whereby they are only impregnably possess'd with their own wild and extravagant fansies , become saucy and impudent for religion , confound order , and despise government , and will be guided by nothing but the whimsies and humours of an unaccountable conscience . § . and hence it comes to pass , that most protestant princes have been frighted ( not to say hector'd ) out of the exercise of their ecclesiastical jurisdiction by the clamours of giddy and distemper'd zealots ; superstition and enthusiasm have out-fac'd the laws , and put government out of countenance by the boldness of their pretensions . confident men have talked so lowdly of the inviolable sacredness and authority of their consciences , that governours , not throughly instructed in the nature and extent of their power , so lately restored to them , have been almost scared from intermedling with any thing , that could upon this score plead its priviledge and exemption from their commands . and how peremptory soever some of them have been in asserting the rights of their supreme power in civil affairs , they have been forced to seem modest and diffident in the exercise of their ecclesiastical supremacy , and dare scarce own their legislative power in religious affairs , only to comply with the saucy pretences of ungovernable and tumultuary zeal . one notorious instance whereof in our own nation , is the iejunium cecilianum , the wednesday fast , that was injoin'd with this clause of exception , that if any person should affirm it to be imposed with an intention to bind the conscience , he should be punished like the spreaders of false news . which is plainly to them that understand it , ( as a late learned prelate of our own observes ) a direct artifice to evacuate the whole law : for ( as he excellently argues ) all humane power being derived from god , and bound upon our consciences by his power , not by man , he that says it shall not bind the conscience , says it shall be no law ; it shall have no authority from god , and then it has none at all ; and if it be not tied upon the conscience , then to break it is no sin , and then to keep it is no duty . so that a law without such an intention is a contradiction ; it is a law which binds only if we please , and we may obey when we have a mind to it ; and to so much we are tied before the constitution . but then if by such a declaration it was meant , that to keep such fasting-days was no part of a direct commandment from god , that is , god had not required them by himself immediately , and so it was ( abstracting from that law ) no duty evangelical , it had been below the wisdom of the contrivers of it ; for no man pretends it , no man says it , no man thinks it : and they might as well have declar'd , that the law was none of the ten commandments . the matter indeed of this law was not of any great moment , but the declaration annexed to it proved of a fatal and mischievous consequence ; for when once the unruly consciences of the puritans were got loose from the restraints of authority , nothing could give check to their giddy and furious zeal , but they soon broke out into the most impudent affronts and indignities against the laws , and ran themselves into all manner of disloyal outrages against the state. as is notoriously evident in the writings and practices of cartwright , goodman , whittingham , gilby , whitehead , travers , and other leading rabbies of the holy faction ; whose treatises are stuffed with as railing , spightful , and malicious speeches both against their prince , the clergy , the lords of the council , the judges , the magistrates , and the laws , as were ever publickly vented by the worst of traytors in any society in the world . and as for the method of their polity , it was plainly no more than this , first to reproach the church with infamous and abusive dialogues , and then to libel the state with bitter and scurrilous pamphlets , to possess mens minds with dislikes and jealousies about publick affairs , whisper about reproachful and slanderous reports , inveigle the people with a thousand little and malicious stories , enter into secret leagues and confederacies , foment discontents and seditions , and in every streight and exigence of state threaten and beleaguer authority : in fine , the scope of all their sermons and discourses was to perswade their party , that if princes refuse to reform religion , 't is lawful for the people with direction of their godly ministers , ( i. e. themselves ) to do it , and that by violent and forcible courses . and whither this principle in process of time led them , the story is too long , too sad , and too well known to be here repeated : 't is sufficient , that it improved it self into the greatest villanies , & concluded in the blackest tragedy that was ever acted upon this island . § . well then , to sum up the result of this discourse , 't is evident , we see , both from reason and experience , what a powerful influence religion has upon the peace and quiet of kingdoms ; that nothing so effectually secures the publick peace , or so easily works its disturbance and ruine , as it s well or ill administration ; and therefore that there is an absolute necessity that there be some supreme power in every common-wealth to take care of its due conduct and settlement ; that this must be the civil magistrate , whose office it is to secure the publick peace , which because he cannot sufficiently provide for , unless he have the power and conduct of religion ; its government must of necessity be seated in him and none else . so that those persons , who would exempt conscience and all religious matters from the princes power , must make him either a tyrant or an impotent prince ; for if he take upon him to tye laws of religion upon their consciences , then according to their principles , he usurps an unlawful dominion , violates the fundamental rights and priviledges of mankind , and invades the throne and authority of god himself : but if he confess that he cannot , then does he clearly pass away the bigest security of his government , and lay himself open to all the plots and villanies that can put on the mask of religion . and therefore should any prince through unhappy miscarriages in the state be brought into such streights and exigences of affairs , as that he cannot restrain the head-strong inclinations of his subjects , without the hazard of raising such commotions and disturbances , as perhaps he can never be able to allay , and so should be forced in spight of himself to indulge them their liberty in their fansies and perswasions about religion ; yet unless he will devest himself of a more material and more necessary part of his authority , than if he should grant away his power of the militia , or his prerogative of ratifying all civil laws ; unless , i say , he will thus hazard his crown , and make himself too weak for government by renouncing the best part of his supremacy , he must lay an obligation upon all persons , to whom he grants this their religious freedom , to profess that 't is matter of meer favour and indulgence ; and that he has as much power to govern all the publick affairs of religion , as any other matters that are either conducive , or prejudicial to the publick peace and quiet of the common-wealth . and if they be brought to this declaration , they will but confess themselves ( to say no worse ) turbulent and seditious persons , by acknowledging , that they refuse their obedience to those laws , which the supreme authority has just power to impose . chap. ii. a more particular account of the nature and necessity of a sovereign power in affairs of religion . the contents . the parallel between matters relating to religious worship , and the duties of morality . moral vertues the most material parts of religion . this proved , ( . ) from the nature of morality , and the design of religion : ( . ) by a particular induction of all the duties of mankind . a scheme of religion , reducing all its branches either to the vertues or instruments of morality . of the villany of those mens religion , that are wont to distinguish between grace and virtue . they exchange the substance of true goodness for meer metaphors and allegories . metaphors the only cause of our present schism ; and the only ground of the different subdivisions among the schismaticks themselves . the vnaccountableness of mens conceits , that when the main ends and designs of religion are undoubtedly subject to the supreme power , they should be so eager to exempt its means and circumstances from the same authority . the civil magistrate may determine new instances of virtue ; how much more new circumstances of worship ? as he may enjoyn any thing in morality , that contradicts not the ends of morality ; so may be in religious worship , if he oppose not its design . he may command any thing in the worship of god , that does not tend to debauch mens practices , or their conceptions of the deity . all the subordinate duties both of morality and religious worship , are equally subject to the determinations of humane authority . § . having in the former chapter sufficiently made out my first proposition , viz. that 't is absolutely necessary to the peace and government of the world , that the supreme magistrate of every common-wealth should be vested with a power to govern the consciences of subjects in affairs of religion ; i now proceed to the proof of the second thing proposed , viz. that those who would deprive the supreme civil power of its authority in reference to the conduct of the worship of god , are forced to allow it in other more material parts of religion , though they are both liable to the same inconveniences and objections : where i shall have a fair opportunity to state the true extent of the magistrates power over conscience in reference to divine worship , by shewing it to be the same with his power over conscience in matters of morality , and all other affairs of religion . and here it strikes me with wonder and amazement to consider , that men should be so shy of granting the supreme magistrate a power over their consciences in the rituals and external circumstances of religious worship , and yet be so free of forcing it upon him in the essential duties of morality ; which are at least as great and material parts of religion , as pleasing to god , and as indispensably necessary to salvation , as any way of worship in the world. the precepts of the moral law are both perfective of our own natures , and conducive to the happiness of others ; and the practice of vertue consists in living suitably to the dictates of reason & nature . and this is the substance and main design of all the laws of religion , to oblige mankind to behave themselvs in all their actions as becomes creatures endued with reason and understanding , and in ways suitable to rational beings , to prepare and qualifie themselves for the state of glory and immortality . and as this is the proper end of all religion , that mankind might live happily here , and happily hereafter ; so to this end nothing contributes more than the practice of all moral vertues , which will effectually preserve the peace and happiness of humane societies , and advance the mind of man to a nearer approach to the perfection of the divine nature ; every particular vertue being therefore such , because 't is a resemblance and imitation of some of the divine attributes . so that moral vertue having the strongest and most necessary influence upon the end of all religion , viz. mans happiness ; 't is not only its most material and useful part , but the ultimate end of all its other duties : and all true religion can consist in nothing else but either the practice of vertue it self , or the use of those means and instruments that contribute to it . § . and this , beside the rational account of the thing it self , appears with an undeniable evidence from the best of demonstrations , i. e. an induction of all particulars . the whole duty of man refers either to his creator , or his neighbour , or himself : all that concerns the two last is confessedly of a moral nature ; and all that concerns the first , consists either in praising of god , or praying to him : the former is a branch of the vertue of gratitude , and is nothing but a thankful and humble temper of mind , arising from a sense of gods greatness in himself , and his goodness to us : so that this part of devotion issues from the same virtuous quality , that is the principle of all other resentments and expressions of gratitude ; only those acts of it that are terminated on god as their object , are styled religious : and therefore gratitude and devotion are not divers things , but only different names of the same thing ; devotion being nothing else but the virtue of gratitude towards god. the latter , viz. prayer is either put up in our own or other mens behalfs : if for others , 't is an act of that virtue we call kindness or charity : if for our selves , the things we pray for ( unless they be the comforts and enjoyments of this life ) are some or other virtuous qualities : and therefore the proper and direct use of prayer is to be instrumental to the virtues of morality : so that all duties of devotion ( excepting only our returns of gratitude ) are not essential parts of religion , but are only in order to it , as they tend to the practice of virtue and moral goodness ; and their goodness is derived upon them from the moral virtues to which they contribute ; and in the same proportion they are conducive to the ends of virtue , they are to be valued among the ministeries of religion . all religion then ( i mean the practical part ) is either virtue it self , or some of its instruments ; and the whole duty of man consists in being virtuous ; and all that is enjoin'd him beside , is in order to it . and what else do we find enforc'd and recommended in our saviour's sermons , beside heights of morality ? what does st. paul discourse of to felix but moral matters , righteousness , and temperance , and iudgment to come ? and what is it that men set up against morality , but a few figurative expressions of it self , that without it are utterly insignificant ? 't is not enough ( say they ) to be completely virtuous , unless we have grace too : but when we have set aside all manner of virtue , let them tell me what remains to be call'd grace , and give me any notion of it distinct from all morality , that consists in the right order and government of our actions in all our relations , and so comprehends all our duty : and therefore if grace be not included in it , 't is but a phantasm , and an imaginary thing . so that if we strip those definitions that some men of late have bestowed upon it , of metaphors and allegories , it will plainly signifie nothing but a vertuous temper of mind ; and all that the scripture intends by the graces of the spirit , are only vertuous qualities of the soul , that are therefore styled graces , because they were derived purely from gods free grace and goodness , in that in the first ages of christianity he was pleased , out of his infinite concern for its propagation , in a miraculous manner to inspire its converts with all sorts of vertue . wherefore the apostle st. paul , when he compiles a complete catologue of the fruits of the spirit , reckons up only moral vertues , gal. . . love , joy or chearfulness , peaceableness , patience , gentleness , goodness , faithfulness , meekness , and temperance ; and elsewhere , titus . . the same apostle plainly makes the grace of god to consist in gratitude towards god , temperance towards our selves , and justice towards our neighbours . for the grace of god that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men , teaching us that denying ungodliness and worldly lusts , we should live soberly , righteously , and godly in this present world . where the whole duty of man is comprehended in living godlily , which is the vertue of humble gratitude towards god : soberly , which contains the vertues of temperance , chastity , modesty , and all others that consist in the dominion of reason over our sensual appetites : righteously , which implies all the vertues of justice and charity , as affability , courtesie , meekness , candour , and ingenuity . § . so destructive of all true and real goodness is the very religion of those men that are wont to set grace at odds with vertue , and are so far from making them the same , that they make them inconsistent ; and though a man be exact in all the duties of moral goodness , yet if he be a graceless person ( i. e. void of i know not what imaginary godliness ) he is but in a cleaner way to hell , and his conversion is more hopeless than the vilest and most notorious sinners ; and the morally righteous man is at a greater distance from grace than the profane , and better be lewd and debauch'd , than live an honest and vertuous life , if you are not of the godly party . bona opera sunt perniciosa ad salutem , says flaccus illiricus . moral goodness is the greatest let to conversion ; and the prophanest wretches make better saints than your moral formalists . and by this means they have brought into fashion a godliness without religion , zeal without humanity , and grace without good nature , or good manners ; have found out in lieu of moral virtue , a spiritual divinity , that is made up of nothing else but certain trains and schemes of effeminate follies and illiterate enthusiasms ; and instead of a sober devotion , a more spiritual and intimate way of communion with god , that in truth consists in little else but meeting together in private to prate phrases , make faces , and rail at carnal reason ( i. e. in their sense all sober and sincere use of our understandings in spiritual matters ) whereby they have effectually turn'd all religion into unaccountable fansies and enthusiasms , drest it up with pompous and empty schemes of speech , and so embrace a few gawdy metaphors and allegories , instead of the substance of true and real righteousness . and herein lies the most material difference between the sober christians of the church of england , and our modern sectaries , that we express the precepts and duties of the gospel in plain and intelligible terms , whilst they trifle them away by childish metaphors and allegories , and will not talk of religion but in barbarous and uncouth similitudes ; and ( what is more ) the different subdivisions among the sects themselves are not so much distinguish'd by any real diversity of opinions , as by variety of phrases and forms of speech , that are the peculiar shibboleths of each tribe . one party affect to lard their discourses with clownish and slovenly similitudes ; another delights to roul in wanton and lascivious allegories ; and a third is best pleased with odd , unusual , unitelligible , and sometimes blasphemous expressions . and whoever among them can invent any new language , presently sets up for a man of new discoveries ; and he that lights upon the prettiest nonsense , is thought by the ignorant rabble to unfold new gospel-mysteries . and thus is the nation shattered into infinite factions , with sensless and phantastick phrases ; and the most fatal miscarriage of them all lies in abusing scripture-expressions , not only without but in contradiction to their sense . so that had we but an act of parliament to abridge preachers the use of fulsom and luscious metaphors , it might perhaps be an effectual cure of all our present distempers . let not the reader smile at the odness of the proposal : for were men obliged to speak sense as well as truth , all the swelling mysteries of fanaticism would immediately sink into flat and empty nonsense ; and they would be ashamed of such jejune and ridiculous stuff as their admired and most profound notions would appear to be , when they , want the varnish of fine metaphors and glittering allusions . in brief , were this a proper place to unravel all their affected phrases and forms of speech , which they have learn'd like parrots to prate by rote , without having any notion of the things they signifie , it would be no unpleasant task to demonstrate , that by them they either mean nothing at all , or some part or instrument of moral vertue . so that all religion must of necessity be resolv'd into enthusiasm or morality . the former is meer imposture , and therefore all that is true must be reduced to the latter ; and what-ever besides appertains to it , must be subservient to the ends of vertue : such are prayer , hearing sermons , and all manner of religious ordinances , that have directly no other place in religion , than as they are instrumental to a vertuous life . § . 't is certain then , that the duties of morality are the most weighty and material concerns of religion ; and 't is as certain , that the civil magistrate has power to bind laws concerning them upon the consciences of subjects : so that every mans conscience is and must be subject to the commands of lawful superiours in the most important matters of religion . and therefore is it not strange , that when the main ends and designs of all religion are avowedly subject to the supreme power , that yet men should be so impatient to exempt its means and subordinate instruments from the same authority ? what reason can the wit of man assign to restrain it from one , that will not much more restrain it from both ? is not the right practice of moral duties as necessary a part of religion , as any outward form of worship in the world ? are not wrong notions of the divine worship as destructive of the peace and settlement of common-wealths , as the most vicious and licentious debaucheries ? are not the rude multitude more inclined to disturb government by superstition than by licentiousness ? and is there not vastly greater danger of the magistrates erring in matters of morality , than in forms and ceremonies of worship , in that those are the main , essential , and ultimate duties of religion ; whereas these are at highest but their instruments , and can challenge no other place in religion , than as they are subservient to the purposes of morality ? nay , is it not still more unaccountable , that the supreme magistrate may not be permitted to determine the circumstances and appendages of the subordinate ministeries to moral virtue , and yet should be allowed ( in all common-wealths ) to determine the particular acts and instances of these virtues themselves ? for example , justice is a prime and natural virtue , and yet its particular cases depend upon humane laws , that determine the bounds of meum and tuum : the divine law restrains titius from invading caius's right and propriety ; but what that is , and when it is invaded , only the laws of the society they live in can determine . and there are some cases that are acts of injustice in england , that are not so in italy ; otherwise all places must be govern'd by the same laws , and what is a law to one nation must be so to all the world. whereas 't is undeniably evident , that neither the law of god nor of nature determine the particular instances of most virtues , but for the most part leave that to the constitutions of national laws . they in general forbid theft , incest , murther , and adultery ; but what these crimes are , they determine not in all cases , but is in most particulars to be explained by the civil constitutions ; and whatsoever the law of the land reckons among these crimes , that the law of god and of nature forbids . and now is it not strangely humoursome to say , that magistrates are instrusted with so great a power over mens conscience in these great and weighty designs of religion , and yet should not be trusted to govern the indifferent , or at least less material circumstances of those things that can pretend to no other goodness , than as they are means serviceable to moral purposes ? that they should have power to make that a particular of the divine law , that god has not made so ; and yet not be able to determine the use of an indifferent circumstance , because ( forsooth ) god has not determin'd it ? in a word , that they should be fully impowered to declare new instances of vertue and vice , and to introduce new duties in the most important parts of religion , and yet should not have authority enough to declare the use and decency of a few circumstances in its subservient and less material concerns . § . the whole state of affairs is briefly this ; man is sent into the world to live happily here , and prepare himself for happiness hereafter ; this is attain'd by the practice of moral vertues and pious devotions ; and wherein these mainly consist , almighty goodness has declared by the laws of nature and revelation : but because in both there are changeable cases and circumstances of things , therefore has god appointed his trustees and officials here on earth to act and determine in both , according to all accidents and emergencies of affairs , to assign new particulars of the divine law , to declare new bounds of right and wrong , which the law of god neither does nor can limit ; because of necessity they must in a great measure depend upon the customs and constitutions of every common-wealth . and in the same manner are the circumstances and outward expressions of divine worship , because they are variable according to the accidents of time and place , entrusted ( with less danger of errour ) with the same authority . and what ceremonies this appoints ( unless they are apparently repugnant to their prime end ) become religious rites ; as what particular actions it constitutes in any species of virtue , become new instances of that virtue , unless they apparently contradict its nature and tendency . now the two primary designs of all religion , are either to express our honourable opinion of the deity , or to advance the interests of vertue and moral goodness ; so that no rites or ceremonies can be esteemed unlawful in the worship of god , unless they tend to debauch men either in their practices , or their conceptions of the deity : and 't is upon one or both of these accounts that any rites and forms of worship become criminally superstitious ; and such were the lupercalia , the eleusinian mysteries , the feasts of bacchus , flora , and venus , because they were but so many festivals of lust and debauchery ; and such were the salvage and bloody sacrifices to saturn , bellona , moloch , baal-peor , and all other 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of the antient paganism ; because they supposed the divine being to take pleasure in the miseries and tortures of its creatures : and such is all idolatry , in that it either gives right worship to a wrong object , or wrong worship to a right one , or at least represents an infinite majesty by images and resemblances of finite things , and so reflects disparagement upon some of the divine attributes by fastning dishonourable weaknesses and imperfections upon the divine nature . as for these , and the like rites and ceremonies of worship , no humane power can command them , because they are directly contradictory to the ends of religion ; but as for all others that are not so , any lawful authority may as well enjoyn them , as it may adopt any actions whatsoever into the duties of morality , that are not contrary to the ends of morality . § . but a little farther to illustrate this , we may observe , that in matters both of moral vertue and divine worship there are some rules of good and evil that are of an eternal and unchangeable obligation , and these can never be prejudiced or altered by any humane power ; because the reason of their obligation arises from a necessity and constitution of nature , and therefore must be as perpetual as that : but then there are other rules of duty that are alterable according to the various accidents , changes , and conditions of humane life , and depend chiefly upon contracts , and positive laws of kingdoms ; these suffer variety , because their matter and their reason does so . thus in the matter of murther there are some instances of an unalterable nature , and others that are changeable according to the various provisions of positive laws and constitutions . to take away the life of an innocent person is forbidden by such an indispensable law of nature , that no humane power can any way directly or indirectly make it become lawful , in that no positive laws can so alter the constitution of nature , as to make this instance of villany cease to be mischievous to mankind ; and therefore 't is capital in all nations of the world. but then there are other particular cases of this crime , that depend upon positive laws , and so by consequence are liable to change according to the different constitutions of the common-wealths men live in . thus though in england 't is murther for an injured husband to kill an adulteress taken in the act of uncleanness , because 't is forbidden by the laws of this kingdom , yet in spain and among the old romans it was not , because their laws permitted it ; and if the magistrate himself may punish the crime with death , he may appoint whom he pleases to be his executioner . and the case is the same in reference to divine worship , in which there are some things of an absolute and indispensable necessity , and others of a transient and changeable obligation : thus 't is absolutely necessary every rational creature should make returns of gratitude to its creator , from which no humane power can restrain it ; but then for the outward expressions and significations of this duty , they are for the most part good or evil according to the customs and constitutions of different nations , unless in the two forementioned cases , that they either countenance vice , or disgrace the deity . but as for all other rituals , ceremonies , postures , & manners of performing the outward expressions of devotion , that are not chargeable with one or both of these , nothing can hinder their being capable of being adopted into the ministeries of divine service , or exempt them from being subject to the determinations of humane power . and thus the parallel holds in all cases between the secondary and emergent laws of morality , and the subordinate and instrumental rules of worship ; they both equally pass an obligation upon all men , to whom they are prescribed , unless they directly contradict the ends of their institution . and now from this more general consideration of the agreement between matters of meer worship and other duties of morality in reference to the power of the civil magistrate , we may proceed by some more particular accounts to discover , how his dominion over both is of equal extent , and restrain'd within the same bounds and measures ; and that in what cases soever he may exercise jurisdiction over conscience in matters of morality , in all the same he may exercise the same power in concerns of religious worship ; and on the contrary , in what cases his power over matters of religion is restrain'd , in all the same is it limited as to things of a moral nature : whence it must appear with a clear and irresistible evidence , that mens right to liberty of conscience is the same in both to all cases , niceties , and circumstances of things , and that they may as rationally challenge a freedom from the laws of justice as from those of religion , and that to grant it in either is equally destructive of all order and government , and equally tends to reduce all societies , to anarchy and confusion . chap. iii. a more particular state of the controversie , concerning the inward actions of the mind , or matters of meer conscience . the contents . mankind have a liberty of conscience over all their actions , whether moral or strictly religious , as far as it concerns their iudgments , but not their practices . of the nature of christian liberty . it relates to our thoughts , and not to our actions . it may be preserved inviolable under outward restraints . christian liberty consists properly in the restauration of the mind of man to its natural priviledge from the yoke of the ceremonial law. the substantial part of religious worship is internal , and out of the reach of the civil magistrate . external worship is no part of religion . it is and must be left undetermined by the law of god. sacrifices the most antient expressions of outward worship were purely of humane institution . though their being expiatory depended upon a positive law of god , yet their most proper and original vse , viz. to express the significations of a grateful mind , depended on the wills of men. of their first original among the heathens . the reason why god prescribed the particular rites and ceremonies of outward worship to the iews . vnder the christian dispensation he has left the disposal of outward worship to the power and discretion of the church . the impertinency of mens clamours against significant ceremonies , when 't is the only use of ceremonies to be significant . the signification of all ceremonies equally arbitrary . the signification of ceremonies is of the same nature with that of words . and men may as well be offended at the one as the other . § . first then , let all matters of meer conscience , whether purely moral or religious , be subject to conscience meerly , i. e. let men think of things according to their own perswasions , and assert the freedom of their judgments against all the powers of the earth . this is the prerogative of the mind of man within its own dominion ; its kingdom is intellectual , and seated in the thoughts , not actions of men ; and therefore no humane power does , or can prescribe to any mans opinions and secret thoughts , but men will think as they please in spight of all their decrees , and the understanding will remain free when every thing else is bound . and this sovereignty of conscience is no entrenchment upon that of princes : because 't is concern'd only in such matters as are of a quite different nature from their affairs , and gives no restraint to their commanding power over the actions of men ; for meer opinion , whilst such , has no influence upon the good or evil of humane society , that is the proper object of government ; and therefore as long as our thoughts are secret , and lock'd up within our own breasts , they are out of the reach of all humane power . but as for matters that are not confined within the territories of meer conscience , but come forth into outward action , and appear in the societies of men , there is no remedy but they must be subject to the cognizance of humane laws , and come within the verge of humane power ; because by these societies subsist , and humane affairs are transacted . and therefore it concerns those , whose office it is to secure the peace and tranquillity of mankind , to govern and manage them in order to the publick good. so that 't is but a vain and frivolous pretence , when men plead with so much noise and clamour for the sacred and inviolable rights of conscience , and apparently invade or infringe the magistrates power , by submitting its commands to the authority of every subjects conscience ; because the commands of lawful authority are so far from invading its proper liberty , that they cannot reach it , in that 't is seated in that part of man , of whose transactions the civil power can take no cognizance . all humane authority and jurisdiction extends no farther than mens outward actions , these are the proper object of all their laws : whereas liberty of conscience is internal and invisible , and confined to the minds and judgments 〈◊〉 men ; and whilst conscience acts within its proper sphere , that civil power is so far from doing it violence , that it never can . but when this great and imperious faculty passes beyond its own peculiar bounds , and would invade the magistrates authority by exercising an unaccountable dominion within his territories , or by venting such wild opinions among his subjects , as he apprehends to tend to the disturbance of the publick peace , then does it concern him to give check to its proceedings as much as to all other invasions ; for the care of the publick good being his duty , as well as interest , it cannot but be in his power to restrain or permit actions , as they are conducible to that end. mankind therefore have the same natural right to liberty of conscience in matters of religious worship , as in affairs of justice and honesty , i. e. a liberty of iudgment , but not of practice ; they have an inviolable freedom to examine the goodness of all laws moral and ecclesiastical , and to judge of them by their suitableness to the natural reasons of good and evil : but as for the practice and all outward actions either of virtue or devotion , they are equally governable by the laws and constitutions of common-wealths ; and men may with the same pretences of reason challenge an exemption from all humane laws in matters of common honesty upon the score of the freedom of their consciences , as they plead a liberty from all authority in duties of religious worship upon the same account ; because they have a freedom of judgment in both , but of practice in neither . § . and upon the reasonableness of this principle is founded the duty ( or rather priviledge ) of christian liberty , viz. to assert the freedom of the mind of man , as far as 't is not inconsistent with the government of the world , in that a sincere and impartial use of our own understandings , is the first and fundamental duty of humane nature . hence it is , that the divine providence is so highly solicitous not to have it farther restrained than needs must ; and therefore in all matters of pure speculation it leaves the mind of man entirely free to judge of the truth and falshood of things , and will not suffer it to be usurp'd upon by any authority whatsoever : and whatsoever opinion any man entertains of things of this nature , he injures no man by it , and therefore no man can have any reason to commence any quarrel with him for it ; every man here judges for himself , and not for others , and matters of meer opinion having no reference to the publick , there is no need of any publick judgment to determine them . but as for those actions that are capable of having any influence upon the publick good or ill of mankind , though they are liable to the determinations of the publick laws , yet the law of god will not suffer them to be determin'd farther than is requisite to the ends of government : and in those very things in which it has granted the civil magistrate a power over the practices of men , it permits them not to exercise any authority over their judgments , but leaves them utterly free to judge of them as far as they are objects of meer opinion , and relate not to the common interest of mankind . and hence , though the commands of our lawful superiours may change indifferent things into necessary duties , yet they cannot restrain the liberty of our minds from judging things thus determin'd to remain in their own nature indifferent : and the reason of our obligation to do them is not fetcht from any antecedent necessity in themselves , but from the supervening commands of authority , to which obedience in all things lawful is a necessary duty . so that christian liberty , or the inward freedom of our judgments may be preserved inviolable under the restraints of the civil magistrate , which are outward , and concern only the actions , not judgments of men ; because the outward determination to one particular rather than another does not abrogate the inward indifferency of the thing it self ; and the duty of our acting according to the laws arises not from any opinion of the necessity of the thing it self , but either from some emergent and changeable circumstances of order and decency , or from a sense of the absolute indispensableness of the duty of obedience . therefore the whole affair of christian liberty relates only to our inward judgment of things ; and provided this be kept inviolate , it matters not ( as to that concern ) what restraints are laid upon our cutward actions . in that though the gospel has freed our consciences from the power of things , yet it has not from that of government ; we are free from the matter , but not from the authority of humane laws ; and as long as we obey the determinations of our superiours with an opinion of the indifferency of the things themselves , we retain the power of our christian liberty , and are still free as to the matter of the law , though not as to the duty of obedience . § . neither is this prerogative of our christian liberty so much any new favour granted in the gospel , as the restauration of the mind of man to its natural priviledge , by exempting us from the yoke of the ceremonial law , whereby things in themselves indifferent were tied upon the conscience with as indispensable an obligation , as the rules of essential goodness & equity , during the whole period of the mosaick dispensation ; which being cancell'd by the gospel , those indifferent things , that had been made necessary by a divine positive command , return'd to their own nature , to be used or omitted only as occasion should direct . and upon this account was it that st. paul , though he were so earnest an assertor of his christian liberty against the doctrine of the necessity of jewish ceremonies , never scrupled to use them , when ever he thought it serviceable to the interests of christianity ; as is apparent in his circumcision of timothy , to which he would never have condescended out of observation of the mosaick law , and yet did not in the least scruple to do it for other purposes as prudence and discretion should direct him . and though in his discourses of christian liberty he instances only in circumcision , meats and drinks , and other ceremonial ordinances , which were then the particulars most in dispute between the christians and the jews ; yet by the clearest analogy of reason the case is the same as to the judicial law , and all other things commanded by moses , that were not either rules of eternal goodness , or expresly establish'd in the gospel : this being its clearest and most important design , to reprieve mankind from all the burdensome and arbitrary impositions of moses , that were scarce capable of any other goodness than their being instances of obedience ; and to restore us to such a religion , as was most suitable to the perfection of humane nature ; and to tye no other laws upon us , than such whose natural and intrinsick goodness should carry with them their own eternal obligation . and therefore whatsoever our superiours impose upon us , whether in matters of religious worship , or any other duties of morality , it neither is , nor can be any entrenchment upon our christian liberty , provided it be not imposed with an opinion of the antecedent necessity of the thing it self . § . now the design of what i have discoursed upon this article of christian liberty , is not barely to shew the manifest impertinency of all those little objections men force from it against the civil magistrates jurisdiction over the outward concerns of religion ; whereas this relates entirely to things of a quite different nature , and is only concern'd in the inward actions of the mind : but withal my purpose is mainly , by exempting all internal acts of the soul from the empire of humane laws , to shew that religion , properly so called , is of all virtues the least obnoxious to the abuse of government , in that the whole substance of religious worship is transacted within the mind of man , and dwells in our hearts and thoughts beyond the reach of princes ; the soul is its proper seat and temple , and there men may worship their god as they please , without offending their prince . for the essence of religious worship consists in nothing else but a grateful sense and temper of mind towards the divine goodness , and so can reside in those faculties only that are capable of being affected with gratitude and veneration : and as for all that concerns external worship , 't is no part of religion it self , but only an instrument to express the inward veneration of the mind by some outward action or posture of the body . upon which account it is that the divine wisdom has so little concern'd it self to prescribe any particular forms of divine service ; for though the christian laws command us by some exteriour signs to express our interiour piety , yet they have no where set down any particular expressions of worship and adoration . and indeed the exteriour significations of honour being so changeable according to the variety of customs and places , there could be no particular forms or fashions prescribed : for so some would have been obliged to signifie their honourable sentiments of god by marks of scorn and dishonour ; because those fashions and postures which in some places are indications of respect , are to others signs of contempt . so mad and seditious is the humour of those men , who brand all those forms of divine service , that are not expresly enjoyn'd in the holy volume , with the odious titles of superstition and will-worship ; and so in one sentence condemn all the churches in the world , seeing there is not any one that has not peculiar rites and customs of its own , that were never prescribed nor practised by our saviour or his apostles . and in all ages of the world god has left the management of his outward worship to the discretion of men , unless when to determine some particular forms has been useful to some other purposes . § . the ancientest and most universally practised way of expressing divine worship and adoration , was by offering of sacrifices ; those first ages of the world conceiving it a proper and natural way of acknowledging their entire dependence upon , and gratitude towards god , by publickly presenting him with a portion of the best and most precious things they had : and god was well-pleased with them , not because he at all delighted in the blood of bulls and goats , but because they were the pledges , and significations of a grateful mind . and yet this outward expression of divine worship , notwithstanding its universality and antiquity , was only made choice of by good men as a fit way of intimating the pious and grateful resentments of their minds , and cannot in the least pretend to owe its original to any divine institution , seeing there appears not any shadow of a command for it ; and to say it was commanded , though 't is no where recorded , is to take the liberty of saying any thing without proof or evidence . that indeed sacrifices became expiatory , and that the life of a beast should be accepted to redeem the life of a man , depended purely upon positive institution , lev. . . for the life of the flesh is in the blood , and i have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls ; for 't is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul. now it was a matter of meer grace and favour in god to exchange the blood of a beast for the blood of a man , which was really forfeited for every transgression of that law , that was establish'd upon no less sanction than the threatning of death . in which commutation of the forfeiture was an equal mixture of the divine mercy and severity , hereby he at once signified his hatred to sin , and his compassion to sinners ; in that though he might have remitted the offence without exacting the penalty , yet to shew his implacable hatred against sin , and withal the more to affright men from its commission , he would never remit its guilt without some sort of recompence and expiation . but setting aside this positive institution of sacrifices and consumptive oblations , their prime and natural use was only to express the significations of a grateful mind , as sufficiently appears not only in the religion of the ancient jews , but heathens too . among whom the first and earliest footsteps of the worship of god appear in their harvest sacrifices and oblations , when they presented the deity with a parcel of their annual returns in acknowledgment of his bounty and providence : crying harvest-in was their most solemn , and most ancient festival , arist. nicomach . l. . c. . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . the ancient sacrifices and festival meeting appear to have been at first instituted upon the ingathering of their fruits , such were the offering of their first-fruits : which was a decent and sutable way of acknowledging their homage and gratitude to their supreme lord ; and had they not been directed to a wrong deity ( as probably they were to the sun ) they might have been no less pleasing to the almighty , than cornelius's alms and devotions : because god is no respecter of persons , but in every nation he that feareth him , and worketh righeousness , is accepted with him . § . in the mosaick dispensation indeed god took special care to prescribe the particular rites and ceremonies of his worship , not so much by reason of the necessity of the thing it self , as because of the sottishness and stupidity of that age ; in that all the religions in the world were lamentably degenerated into the most sordid and idolatrous superstition , and the jewish nation were sottishly addicted to the absurd customs of their neighbours ; and therefore the divine wisdom enjoyn'd them the most contrary usages , as a fence to keep them from passing over to the religion of the gentiles . but when mankind was grown up to a riper understanding , and could discern that religion was something else beside customs and ceremonies ; then did god cancel the old discipline of the law , and by the ministry of iesus christ establish'd a more manly and rational dispensation ; in which as he has been more solicitous to acquaint us with the main and fundamental affairs of religion , so has he scarce at all concern'd himself in exteriour rites and significations ( having instituted only two , viz. the two sacraments that are distinguish'd from all other ceremonies , by their being federal and peculiarly significative of the covenant between god and man , seal'd by the first , renewed and confirmed by the second ) but as for all other rites and ceremonies of external service , he has left their entire disposal to the power and discretion of the church it self , knowing that as long as men had wit and reason enough to manage the civil affairs of common-wealths , they could not want prudence to judge what circumstances were conducive to order and decency in publick worship . and if we take a survey of all the forms of divine service practised in the christian church , there is not any of them can so much as pretend to be appointed in the word of god , but depend on the authority of the civil power in the same manner as all customs and laws of civil government do . and therefore to quarrel with those forms of publick worship , that are established by authority , only because they are humane institutions , is at once notorious schism and rebellion : for where a religion is establish'd by the laws , whoever openly refuses obedience , plainly rebels against the government , rebellion being properly nothing else but an open denial of obedience to the civil power . nor can men of this principle live peaceably in any church in christendom , in that there is not a church in the world , that has not peculiar rites and customs and laws of government and discipline . § . but of this i shall have occasion to account elsewhere , and shall rather chuse to observe here , from what i have discoursed of the use and nature of outward worship , the prodigious impertinency of that clamour some men have for so many years kept up against the institution of significant ceremonies ; when 't is the only use of ceremonies , as well as all other outward expressions of religion , to be significant : in that all worship is only an outward sign of inward honour , and is indifferently perform'd either by words or actions ; for respect may as well be signified by deeds , and postures , and visible solemnities as by solemn expressions : thus to approach the divine majesty with such gestures as are wont to betoken reverence and humility , is as proper a piece of worship , as to celebrate his greatness by solemn praises : and to offer sacrifices and oblations , was among the ancients the same sort of worship as to return thanksgivings , they being both equally outward signs of inward love and gratitude . and therefore there can be no more exception against the signification of ceremonies than of words , seeing this is the proper office of both in the worship of god. and as all forms , and ceremonies , and outward actions of external worship are in a manner equally significant , so are they equally arbitrary ; only some happen to be more universally practised , and others to be confined to some particular times and places : kneeling , lying prostrate , being bare-headed , lifting up the hands or eyes , are not more naturally significant of worship and adoration than putting off the shoes , bowing the head , or bending the body ; and if some are more generally used than others , that proceeds not from their natural significancy , but from custom and casual prescriptions : and to bow the body , when we mention the name of iesus , is as much a natural signification of honour to his person , as kneeling , or being bare-headed , or lifting up the hands or eyes , when we offer up our prayers to him . but if all outward actions become to betoken honour by institution , then whatsoever outward signs are appointed by the common-wealth , unless they are customary marks of contempt , and so carry in them some antecedent vndecency , are proper signs of worship ; for if actions are made significant by agreement , those are most so whose signification is ratified by publick consent . § . so that all the magistrates power of instituting significant ceremonies , amounts to no more than a power of determining what shall or shall not be visible signs of honour , and this certainly can be no more usurpation upon the consciences of men , than if the sovereign authority should take upon it self ( as some princes have done ) to define the signification of words . for as words do not naturally denote those things which they are used to represent , but have their import stampt upon them by consent and institution , and and may , if men would agree to it among themselves , be made marks of things quite contrary to what they now signifie : so the same gestures and actions are indifferently capable of signifying either honour or contumely ; and therefore that they may have a certain and setled meaning , 't is necessary their signification should be determined : and unless this be done either by some positive command , or publick consent , or some other way , there can be no such thing as publick worship in the world , in that its proper end and usefulness is to express mens agreement in giving honour to the divine majesty : and therefore unless the signs by which this honour is signified be publick and uniform , 't is not publick worship , because there is no publick signification of honour . so far is it from being unlawful for governours to define significant ceremonies in divine worship , that it is rather necessary ; in that unless they were defined , it would cease to be publick worship : and when different men worship god by different actions , according to their different fansies , 't is not publick , but private worship ; in that they are not publick , but private signs of honour . so that uniformity in the outward actions of religious worship is of the same use , as certainty in the signification of words , because otherwise they were no publick expressions of honour . and therefore , to sum up the whole result of this discourse : if all internal actions of the soul are beyond the jurisdiction of humane power , if by them the substance of religious worship be perform'd , if all outward forms of worship have no other use , than only to be instruments to express inward religion , and if the signification of actions be of the same nature with that of words ; then when the civil magistrate takes upon him to determine any particular forms of outward worship , 't is , after all that hideous and ridiculous noise that is raised against it , of no worse consequence , than if he should go about to define the signification of all words used in the worship of god. chap. iv. of the nature of all actions intrinsecally evil , and their exemption from the authority of humane laws , against mr. hobs ; with a full confutation of his whole hypothesis of government . the contents . no magistrate can command actions internally evil. the reason hereof is , not because men are in any thing free from the supreme authority in earth , but because they are subject to a superiour in heaven . to take off all obligations antecedent to humane laws , is utterly to destroy all government . mr. hobs his hypothesis concerning the nature and original of government proposed . it s absurdity demonstrated from its inconsistency with the natural constitution of things . the principles of government are to be adapted , not to an imaginary , but to the real state of nature . this hypothesis apparently denies either the being of god , or the goodness and wisdom of providence . it irrecoverably destroys the safety of all societies of mankind in the world. it leaves us in as miserable condition under the state of government , as we were in his supposed natural state of war. it enervates all its own laws of nature , by founding the reason of their obligation upon meer self-interest . which false and absurd principle being removed , all that is base , or peculiar in the whole hypothesis , is utterly cashier'd . § . when any thing that is apparently and intrinsecally evil is the matter of an humane law , whether it be of a civil or ecclesiastical concern , here god is to be obeyed rather than man : no circumstances can alter the rules of prime and essential rectitude , their goodness is eternal and unchangeable . and therefore in all such actions disobedience to humane laws is so far from being a sin , that it becomes an indispensable duty . where the good or evil of an action is determined by the law of nature , no positive humane law can take off its morality ; because 't is in it self repugnant to the principles of right reason , & by consequence as unchangeable as that . and therefore if the supreme magistrate should make a law not to believe the being of god or providence , the truth of the gospel , the immortality of the soul ; that law can no more bind , than if a prince should command a man to murther his father , or to ravish his mother ; because the obligatory power of all such laws is antecedently rescinded by a stronger and more indispensable obligation . and thus has every man a natural right to be virtuous , and no authority whatsoever can deny him the liberty of acting virtuously without being guilty of the foulest tyranny and injustice : not so much because subjects are in any thing free from the authority of the supreme power on earth , as because they are subject to a superiour in heaven ; and they are only then excused from the duty of obedience to their sovereign , when they cannot give it without rebellion against god. so that it is not originally any right of their own , that exempts them from a subjection to the sovereign power in all things ; but 't is purely gods right of governing his own creatures , that magistrates then invade , when they make edicts to violate or controul his laws . and those who would take off from the consciences of men all obligations antecedent to those of humane laws , instead of making the power of princes supreme , absolute , and uncontroulable , they utterly enervate all their authority , and set their subjects at perfect liberty from all their commands . for if we once remove all the antecedent obligations of conscience and religion , men will be no further bound to submit to their laws , than only as themselves shall see convenient ; and if they are under no other restraint , it will be their wisdom to rebel as oft as it is their interest . in that the laws of superiours passing no obligation upon the consciences of subjects , they neither are , nor can be under any stronger engagements to subjection , than to preserve themselves from the penalties and inflictions of the law ; and so by consequence may despise its obligation , whenever they can hope to escape its punishment . now , how must this weaken the power , and supplant the thrones of princes , if every subject may despise their laws , or invade their sovereignty , whenever he can hope to build his own fortune upon their ruines ? how would it expose their scepters to the continual attempts of rebels and usurpers , when every one , that has strength enough to wrest it out of his princes hands , has right and title enough to hold it ? what security could princes have of their subjects loyalty , that will own their power , as long as it shall be their interest ; and when it ceases to be so , call it tyranny ? how shall they ever be secured by any promises , oaths , and covenants of allegiance , that have no other band but self-security , or hope of exemption from the penalties of the law ? will not the most sacred bonds and compacts leave them in as insecure a condition as they found them in ? in that self-advantage would have kept their subjects loyal and obedient without oaths , and nothing else will do it with them ; and therefore they can add no new obligations to that of interest : for if to perform their covenants be advantageous , they are bound to perform them by the laws of prudence and discretion without the oath as much as with it ; if disadvantageous , no oath can oblige them , in that interest and self-preservation is the only enforcement of all their covenants : and therefore when that tye happens to cease , their obligation becomes null and void , and they may observe them if they please , and if they please break them . § . but the vanity and groundlesness of this opinion will more fully appear , by discovering the lamentable foundation , on which it stands ; and that is a late wild hypothesis concerning the nature and original of government , which is briefly this : that the natural condition of mankind is a state and posture of war of every man against every man , in that all men being born in a condition of equality , they have all an equal right to all things ; and because all cannot enjoy all , hence every man becomes an enemy to every man : in which state of hostility there is no way for any man to secure himself so reasonable as anticipation , that is , by force or wiles to master the persons of all men he can , till he see no other power great enough to endanger himself ; so that there is no remedy but that in the state of nature all men must be obliged to seek and contrive , in order to their own security , one anothers destruction . but because in this condition mankind must for ever groan under all the miseries and calamities of war , therefore they have wisely chosen by mutual consent to enter into contracts and covenants of mutual trust , in which every man has , in order to his own security , been content to relinquish his natural and unlimited right to every thing ; and hereby they enter into a state of peace and government , in which every man engages by solemn oath and covenant to submit himself to the publick laws in order to his own private safety . so that , according to this hypothesis , there are no rules of right or wrong antecedent to the laws of the common-wealth , but all men are at absolute liberty to do as they please ; and how cruel soever they may be to one another , they can never be injurious , there being nothing just or unjust but what is made so by the laws of the society , to which all its members covenant to submit when they enter into it . this hypothesis , as odde as it is , is become the standard of our modern politicks ; by which men , that pretend to understand the real laws of wisdom and subtlety , must square their actions ; and therefore is swallowed down , with as much greediness as an article of faith , by the wild and giddy people of the age. and of the reality of it none can doubt but fops and raw-brain'd fellows , that understand nothing of the world , or the complexion of humane nature . now 't is but labour in vain to go about to confute the phantastick theory of things , only by demonstrating the groundlesness of the conceit ; it being the fashion and humour of those men i have to do with , to embrace any hypothesis how precarious soever , if it do but serve the purposes of baseness and irreligion : and therefore i shall not content my self with barely proving the weakness of its foundation , but shall confute and shame it too , by shewing it to be palpably false , absurd , and mischievous from these ensuing considerations . § . first then the hypothesis , which he lays as the basis of all his discourse , is infinitely false and absurd : for what can be more incongruous , than to proceed upon the supposal of such a state of nature as never was , nor ever shall be ; and is so far from being sutable to the natural frame of things , that 't is absolutely inconsistent with it ? and though philosophers are so civil among themselves ( with how much reason i now determine not ) as to allow one another the liberty , when they frame theories and hypotheses of things , to suppose some precarious principles ; yet are they never so fond as to grant such fundamental suppositions , as are apparently false and incongruous , and repugnant to the real state of things : or if any will take upon them that unwarrantable liberty of invention , yet however it would be monstrously impertinent to lay down their own lamentable fictions , as the fundamental reasons of the truth , and reality of things . and yet with this gross and inexcusable absurdity is this hypothesis most notoriously chargeable . for when it has once supposed ( without ever attempting to prove it ) that the state of nature is a state of war , and that by nature all men have a right to all things , and come into the world without any obligations to mutual justice and honesty , it from thence concludes : that in a bare state of nature there can be no right and wrong ; that what mischiefs soever men may do to each other , they can do no injuries ; that the first reason and foundation of all natural right is self-preservation , and that in pursuance of this principle men enter into societies , bind themselves to an observance of the laws of justice and natural equity by mutual bonds and covenants , and think themselves engaged to observe them only in order to self-interest . so that if we remove this 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , this fundamental falshood , that the state of nature is a state of war and anarchy , all the subsequent propositions will immediately appear to be as groundless , as they are unreasonable ; and there will not remain the least shadow of reason to believe private interest , the only reason of right and wrong , or the first and fundamental law of nature ; and this authors city will appear to stand upon no firmer foundation than a fable and a falshood ; and his hypothesis so grosly absurd and incongruous , as would be highly blameable in the contrivance of a dramatick plot. but if , instead of conforming the principles of justice and government to this false and imaginary state of the world , we take a serious view of the true and real posture of the nature of things ; the dictates of reason that must naturally result from thence , will be as contrary to some of those this author hath assign'd , as the natural state of things is to this imaginary one : namely , that there was a first cause of humane kind , and that this first cause is a being endued with goodness and equity ; and therefore that when he made mankind , he design'd their welfare and felicity ; and by consequence created them in such a condition , in which they might acquire it . all men therefore having by the divine appointment a common right and title to happiness , which cannot be obtain'd without society , nor society subsist without mutual aids of love and friendship , because we are not self-sufficient , but stand in need of mutual assistances ; from hence it follows , that as every man is obliged to act for his own good , so also to aim at the common good of mankind , because without this the natural right that every individual man has to happiness , cannot possibly be obtain'd ; so that there will plainly arise from the constitution of humane nature an essential iustice , that demands of every man offices of love and kindness to others as well as to himself ; in that without this that common welfare and happiness , which nature , or rather that divine providence that made it , design'd for all and every individual of mankind , must become utterly unattainable . and hence the sole fountain of all the mischiefs and miseries in the world is excess of unreasonable self-love , and neglect of all other interests but our own ; and all such , as separate their own concerns from the common interest , are the profess'd enemies of mankind : and therefore 't is the only aim of all the just laws and wise philosophy in the world , to assign reasonable allowances between self-love and society . and if all men would be just , and impartial between themselves and the publick , i. e. all others , there would be no use of laws nor judges , this being the only office of publick justice , to balance every mans private interest . well then , because there is an absolute necessity that the government of the world must be suited to , and established upon the natural condition of humane nature ; hence it is , that it is made as natural to the being , as 't is necessary to the preservation of mankind ; and that as we cannot subsist , so neither can we be born out of society , he that made us , having made this our natural condition , that we could not possibly come into the world but under a state of government , all children being actually as soon as born under the power and authority of their parents : and therefore as mankind cannot continue without propagation , so neither can propagation without government ; and to be a subject is as natural upon being born , as to be a man. now 't is certain , that that only can be accounted the state of nature that was made and design'd by the author of nature ( for if it be not suitable to that order and condition of things , that he has establish'd , 't is preternatural . ) and therefore seeing he did not create multitudes of men together out of each others power , and in a state of war and hostility , but begun the race of humane kind in a single person , by whom the community of men was to be propagated , that must be the state of nature in which it was at first founded , and by which it is still continued : but if men will feign such an imaginary state of nature as is utterly contradictory to the real , and then , upon such an unnatural frame of affairs , establish our natural rights ; 't is no wonder if they prove contrary to our common interests , seeing they are suited to a contrary state of things . § . secondly , no man can seriously embrace this hypothesis , that does not firmly believe either ( . ) that there never was any author of humane nature , but that a multitude of men hapned by chance to arise like mushromes out of the earth altogether , who out of diffidence and jealousie one of another for want of acquaintance shun'd society , and withdrew like all other beasts of prey into dens and secret retirements , where they lived poor and solitary as bats and owls , and subsisted like vermine by robbing and filching from one another ; till finding this way of living lamentably unsafe and uneasie , every man being always upon the guard against every man , and in continual fear and danger from the whole community , they grew weary of this forlorn and comfortless way of living ; and thence some that were more wise , or more cowardly than others , when they chanced to meet in their wild rangings after prey , instead of belabouring one another with snagsticks , and beating out each others brains , made signs of parley , and so began to treat of terms of mutual peace and assistance , and so by degrees to win others into their party , till they hearded together in small rendezvouses , like the little common-wealths of the savage americans , which in process of time grew up into larger societies , from whence at length came the different nations and governments of the world. but if this fortuitous original of humane nature be too absurd and ridiculous to be asserted , then ( . ) it must be supposed , that there was a first author and creator of mankind : and if there were , then whoever believes this hypothesis , must withal believe that he contrived things so ill , that unless his creatures had by chance been more provident than himself , they must of necessity have perish'd as soon as they were made ; and therefore that the well-being of the world is to be entirely attributed to mans wit , and not to gods providence , who sent his creatures into it in such a condition as should oblige them to seek their own mutual ruine and destruction ; so that had they continued in that state of war he left them in , they must have lived and died like gladiators , and have unavoidably perish'd at one time or other by one anothers swords ; and therefore that mankind owe the comfort of their lives not at all to their creator , but entirely to themselves ; forasmuch as the very laws of nature , whereby , according to this hypothesis , the world is preserved , were not establish'd by the divine providence ; but are only so many rules of art , being , as all other maximes of prudence and policy are , inventions of humane wit , and suppose man not in the natural state and posture of war , in which god left him , but in a preternatural one of his own contriving . but certainly the deity that made us , if we suppose him good , made us not to be miserable ; for so we must unavoidably have been in a perpetual state of war : and therefore to suppose he both made and left us in that condition , is directly to deny our creators goodness . and then if we suppose him wise , we cannot imagine he would frame a creation to destroy it self ; unless we can believe his only design was to sport himself in the folly and madness of his creatures , by beholding them by all the ways of force and fraud to conspire their own mutual destruction : and therefore if the creation of man were a product of the divine wisdom or goodness , his natural state must have been a condition of peace , and not such a state of war that should naturally tend to his misery , ruine , and utter destruction . § . ( . ) this hypothesis irrecoverably destroys the safety of all societies of mankind in the world : for if personal safety and private interest be the only foundation of all the laws of nature or principles of equity , i. e. if men endeavour peace , and enter into contracts of mutual trust , if they invade not the proprieties of others , if they think themselves obliged to promote the good of the society , if they submit themselves to the laws of the common-wealth , if they practise justice , equity , mercy , and all other virtues , if they refrain from cruelty , pride , revenge , and all other vices , only to secure their own personal safety and interest ; then whenever this obligation ceases , all the ties to justice and equity , that derive all their force and reason from it , must also cease ; and when any single person can hope to advance his own private interest by the ruine of the publick , it will be lawful for him to effect it ; and war , rebellion , and injuries will be at least as innocent as faith , justice , and obedience ; because these are good only in order to private interest , and therefore when those chance to be as conducive to it , they will then be as just and lawful . so that this single principle does as effectually work the subversion of all government , as if men were taught the most professed principles of rebellion , as , that all government is tyranny and usurpation ; that his majesties possession of the crown is his best title ; that whoever has wit or strength enough to wrest his scepter from him , has right to hold it . for as men of these and the like perswasions will never act them , but when opportunity invites ; and will be obedient to any government , till they can destroy it : so will those other rebel , as soon as they think it their interest . for when ever they can hope to mend their fortunes by rebellion , the same obligation , that restrain'd them from it , does now as forcibly invite them to it , that is self-interest , i. e. they cannot but think rebellion lawful , as oft as they think it safe . and there are no villains so mad or foolish as to attempt it upon other grounds . so that , though this author has assign'd us some not unuseful laws of nature , yet has he effectually enervated their force and usefulness , by resolving the reason of their obligation into self-interest ; and so laying the fundamental principles of all injustice , as the only foundation of all the rules of justice : for as 't is the nature and office of justice to maintain the common right of all , and to secure my neighbours happiness as well as my own ; so the formal obliquity of all injustice lies in pursuing of a private interest without regard to the common good of all and every member of the society . and therefore if private interest be the only reason and enforcement of the laws of nature , men will have no other motive to obey their constitutions , than what will as strongly oblige to break them ; i. e. if men are just and honest for no other reason than because 't is their interest , then when 't is their interest , they may ( and if they are wise will ) be unjust and dishonest . and so men that owne the laws of 〈…〉 this principle may be villains , 〈…〉 of all their restraints ; and the most lewd and profligate wretches will , as well as they , be just or unjust , as it serves their turns . for this principle , that engages men to be honest only as long as they must , will as effectually oblige them to be rogues as soon as they can . § . so that according to this hypothesis , mankind is left in as ill a condition after they have by pacts and covenants united into societies , and a state of peace , as they were in their natural state of war. for all covenants of mutual trust are ( according to its own rules ) in the state of nature invalid ; because under that men are under no obligations of justice and honesty to one another , and have no other measure of their actions but their interest ; and therefore as that might invite them in some circumstances to enter into bonds and contracts , so it may in others to break them . so that in the state of government all their promises , oaths , and contracts will prove as ineffectual as in the state of nature : partly , because the force of all contracts , made in the state of government , ariseth from the validity of the first compact , that was made in the state of nature ; that is , in that state in which it could have no validity ; partly , because they have no other tye but that of self-interest , and so can lay no other obligation upon us to observe them , than they might have done before . and therefore if mankind be once supposed in this natural state of war , they can never be delivered from it ; and after they have enter'd into covenants of peace , they would remain as much as before in a posture of war , and be subject to all the same dangers and miseries , that would have annoyed them if they had continued in their natural state . for if justice and fidelity be not supposed to be the law and duty of our natures , no covenants are of power enough to bring us under any obligation to them . now , having thus clearly blown up the foundations of this hypothesis , 't were but labour in vain to make particular enquiries into all the flaws and follies of its superstructures , seeing they must of necessity stand and fall together ; for if its subsequent propositions be coherently deduced from these fundamental principles , all the evidence and certainty they can pretend to , depends on them ; and therefore the premisses being once convicted of falshood , all pretences to truth in the conclusions must necessarily vanish . and if any of them happen to be true and rational , 't is not by vertue of these , but other principles . thus though the laws of nature , he assigns , may be useful to the ends of government and happiness of mankind ; yet , because upon those grounds , on which he assigns them , they would be no laws , that alone is sufficient evidence of the errour and vanity of his whole hypothesis ; seeing how good soever they may be in themselves , yet upon the principles , and in the method , in which he proposes them , they are of no force . in that self-interest being the only reason of their obligation , the interests of civil society come thereby to be no better secured with , than without them : because if they were not in force by vertue of any compact , all men would chuse to act according to them , when they thought it advantageous ; and when they have the utmost force his principles can give them , no man would think they obliged him , when ever he apprehended them disadvantageous . so that this malignant principle of meer self-interest running through the whole systeme , and twisting it self with every branch of his morality , it does not only eat out , and enervate its native life and vigour , but withal envenoms their natural truth and soundness with its own malignity . which principle being removed , and that influence it hath on other parts of this hypothesis being prevented , and withal the foundation on which it stands ruin'd , viz. his absurd and imaginary state of nature , we have perhaps cashier'd all that is either base or peculiar in it , and restored the true accounts of natural justice and right reason , viz. that all men have a natural right to happiness from the very design of their creation , that this cannot be acquired without mutual aids and friendships ; and therefore right reason dictates , that every man should have some concern for his neighbour , as well as himself : because this is made necessary to the welfare of the world by the natural state of things , and by this mutual exchange of love and kindness men support one another in the comforts of humane life . chap. v. a confutation of the consequences that some men draw from mr. hobs's principles in behalf of liberty of conscience . the contents . how a belief of the imposture of all religions is become the most powerful and fashionable argument for the toleration of all . though religion were a cheat , yet because the world cannot be govern'd without it ; they are the most mischievous enemies to government that tell the world it is so . religion is useful or dangerous in a state , as the temper of mind it breeds is peaceable or turbulent . the dread of invisible powers is not of it self sufficient to awe people into subjection , but tends more probably to tumults and seditions . this largely proved by the ungovernableness of the principles and tempers of some sects . fanaticism is as natural to the common people , as folly and ignorance ; and yet is more mischievous to government , than vice and debauchery . how the fanaticks of all nations and religions agree in the same principles of sedition . to permit different sects of religion in a common-wealth , is only to keep up so many incurable pretences and occasions of publick disturbance . the corrupt passions and humours of men make toleration infinitely unsafe . toleration only cried up by opprest parties , because it gives them opportunity to overturn the settled frame of things . every man that desires indulgence is engaged by his principles to endeavour changes and alterations . a bare indulgence of men in any religion , different from the establish'd way of worship , does but exasperate them against the state. § . and now the reason , why i have thus far pursued this principle , is , because 't is become the most powerful patron of the fanatick interest ; and a belief of the indifferency , or rather imposture of all religion , is now made the most effectual ( not to say most fashionable ) argument for liberty of conscience . for when men have once swallowed this principle , that mankind is free from all obligations antecedent to the laws of the common-wealth , and that the will of the sovereign power is the only measure of good and evil ; they proceed suitably to its consequences , to believe , that no religion can obtain the force of a law , till 't is establish'd for such by supreme authority ; that the holy scriptures were not laws to any man , till they were enjoyned by the christian magistrate ; that no man is under any obligation to assent to their truth , unless the governours of the common-wealth require it ; and that setting aside their commands , 't is no sin to believe our blessed saviour a villanous and lewd impostor ; and that , if the sovereign power would declare the alcoran to be canonical scripture , it would be as much the word of god as the four gospels . leviath . p. . c. . for if sovereigns in their own dominions are the sole legislators , then those books only are canonical , that is law , in every nation , which are established for such by the sovereign authority . so that all religions are in reality nothing but cheats and impostures , and at best but so many tales of imaginary and invisible powers , publickly allowed and encouraged , to awe the common people to obedience . leviath . p. . c. . who are betrayed into it by these four follies , a false opinion of ghosts and immaterial substances , that neither are , nor ever can be ; ignorance of second causes , devotion towards what men groundlesly fear ; and mistaking things casual for divine prognosticks . in brief , all religion is nothing but a cheat of policy , and was at first invented by the founders and legislators of common-wealths , and by them obtruded upon the credulous rabble for the ends of government . and therefore , though princes may wisely make use of the fables of religion to serve their own turns upon the silly multitude , yet 't is below their wisdom to be seriously concern'd themselves for such fooleries ; so that , provided their subjects will befool themselves with any one imposture , 't is not material which they single out ; in that all religions equally oblige to the belief of invisible powers , which is all that is requisite to the designs of policy . and as long as a prince can keep up any apprehensions of religion in the minds of his subjects , 't is no policy to disoblige and exasperate any of them , by interessing his power for one party more than another , and by forcing all other sects against their own inclinations to conform their belief to the perswasions of one faction ; but rather to endear them all to himself , by indulging them their liberty in their different follies : and so he may with more ease secure his government by abusing all , and yet disobliging none . § . in answer to this objection , 't is not material to my present purpose largely to examine & refute these wild and extravagant pretences , by asserting the truth and divine authority of religion , and giving a rational account of the grounds and principles , on which it stands : only let me observe that this discourse lies under no less prejudice than this , that if any of the principles of religion be true , then is all these mens policy false : but waving this too great advantage , i shall content my self only to discover of what noisom and pernicious consequence such principles are to the common-wealth , though it were granted that all religion were nothing but imposture . and this i shall do ( without reminding the reader how i have already prevented this objection in the first part of the discourse , when i shew'd what good or bad influence upon the state mens perswasions about religion have ) by these four ensuing considerations . first , then methinks his majesty is bound to con these men thanks for endeavouring to render the truth of religion suspected , and to possess mens minds with apprehensions of its being false ; whereby they effectually rob him of the best security of his crown , and strongest inducements of obedience to his laws . there being for certain nothing so absolutely necessary to the reverence of government , the peace of societies , and common interests of mankind , as a sense of conscience and religion : this is the strongest bond of laws , and only support of government ; without it the most absolute and unlimited powers in the world must be for ever miserably weak and precarious , and lie always at the mercy of every subjects passion and private interest . for when the obligations of conscience and religion are cashier'd , men can have no higher inducements to loyalty and obedience , than the considerations of their own private interest and security ; and then wherever these happen to fail , and interest and advantage invite to disobedience , men may do as they please : and when they have power to shake off authority , they have right too ; and a prosperous usurper shall have as fair a title to his crown as the most lawful prince ; all government will be founded upon force and violence , and kings nothing but terrible men with long swords . but when the ties of conscience are superinduced upon those of secular interest , this extends the power of princes to the hearts of their subjects , and secures them as much from the very thoughts , as attempts of treason . for nothing so strongly influences the minds of men , or so authoritatively commands their passions and inclinations , as religion ; forasmuch as no fears are ( not only to the considerate part of mankind , but to the ruder sort ) so vehement as those of hell , nor hopes so active as those of heaven : and therefore the commands of religion being back'd with such mighty sanctions , they must needs have infinitely more force to awe or allure the minds of men to a compliance , than any secular interests . whereas those men that think themselves above the follies of conscience , and either believe or regard not the evils threatned hereafter ( an attainment to which these our modern politicians do not blush to pretend , though it be but an odde piece of policy openly to owne and proclaim it ) must make their present interest the rule and measure of all their actions ; and can have no other obligation to obey their lawful superiours in what they command , than they have to disobey them , viz. their own security and self-preservation . whereas if these men lived under the restraints of conscience , and the serious apprehensions of religion , and believed the laws of their prince to be bound upon them by the laws of god , and that under the threatnings of everlasting misery ; their loyalty would be tied upon them by all that men can either hope or fear , and they would have all the engagements to obedience that the serious reflections upon a happy or miserable eternity could lay upon them . but if the principles of government have so essential a dependence upon those of religion , if nothing be powerful enough to secure obedience but the hopes and fears of another life , if all humane laws have their main force and efficacy from the apprehensions of religion , if oaths , promises , and covenants , and whatsoever else whereby civil societies are upheld , are made firm by nothing but the bonds of religion ; then let authority judge , how much it is beholden to those men , who labour to bring it into publick disreputation , and to possess their subjects with an opinion of its falshood : whereby they not only set them loose from their authority , but enrage them against it , by perswading them they are governed by cheats and impostures , and that the magistrate builds his dominion upon their folly and simplicity , there being nothing more hateful to mankind than to be imposed upon : so that though religion were a cheat , they are apparently the greatest enemies to government , that tell the world it is so . § . but secondly , nothing more concerns the interest of the civil magistrate , than to take care , what particular doctrines of religion are taught within his dominions ; because some are peculiarly advantageous to the ends of government , and others as naturally tending to its disturbance : some incline the minds of men to candour , moderation , and ingenuity , and work them to a gentle and peaceable temper , by teaching humility , charity , meekness , and obedience : now 't is the interest of princes to cherish and propagate such doctrines among their subjects , that will make them not only quiet , but useful in the common-wealth . but others there are that infect the minds of men with pride , peevishness , malice , spight , and envy ; that incline them to delight in detracting from princes , and speaking reproachfully of government , and breed in them such restless and seditious tempers , that 't is next to an impossibility for any prince to please or oblige them . now , as for such perverse and arrogant sects of men , it certainly concers governours to suppress them as so many routs of traytors and rebels . religion then is either useful or dangerous in a common-wealth , as the temper of mind it breeds is peaceable or turbulent : and as there is nothing more serviceable to the interests of government , so there is nothing more mischievous : and therefore nothing more concerns princes , than to take care what doctrines are taught within their dominions . for seeing religion has , and will have the strongest influence upon the minds of men ; when that renders them averse and troublesom to government , 't is that all the power nor policy in the world can keep them peaceable , till such perswasions are rooted out of their minds by severity of laws and penalties . and , as long as men think themselves obliged , upon pain of damnation , to disobedience and sedition , not any secular threatnings and inflictions are of force enough to bridle the exorbitances of conscience . there is not any vice so incident to the common people as superstition , nor any so mischievous . 't is infinitely evident from the histories and records of all ages and nations , that there is nothing so vicious or absurd but may pass for religion , and ( what is worse ) the more wild and giddy conceits of religion are ever suckt in by the multitude with the greatest passion and eagerness ; and there is no one thing in the world so difficult , as to bring the common people to true notions of god and his worship ; insomuch that 't is no paradox to affirm , that religion ( i. e. what is mistaken for it ) has been one of the greatest principles of mischief and wickedness in the world. and if so , then certainly nothing requires so much care and prudence in the civil magistrate , as its due conduct and management . so that the dread of invisible powers is of it self no more serviceable to awe the people into subjection , then to drive them into tumults and confusions ; and if it chance to be accompanied ( as it easily may ) with tumultuous and seditious perswasions , 't is an invincible obligation to villany and rebellion . and therefore it must needs above all things concern princes , to look to the doctrines and articles of mens belief ; seeing 't is so great odds that they prove of dangerous consequence to the publick peace : and in that case , the apprehensions of a deity , and a world to come , makes their danger almost irresistible . sect. . there are some sects whose principles , and some persons whose tempers will not suffer them to live peaceable in any common-wealth . for what if some men believe , that if princes refuse to reform religion themselves , 't is lawful for their godly subjects to do it , and that by violence and force of arms ? what if they believe , that princes are but executioners of the decrees of the presbytery ; and that in case of disobedience to their spiritual governours , they may be excommunicated , and by consequence deposed ? what if they believe , that dominion is founded in grace ; and therefore that all wicked kings forfeit their crowns , and that it is in the power of the people of god to bestow them where they please ? and what if others believe , that to puruse their success in villany and rebellion is to follow providence ; and that when the event of war has deliver'd up kings into their power , then not to depose or murther them , were to slight the guidance of gods providential dispensations ? are not these , and the like innocent propositions ( think you ) mightily conducive to the peace and settlement of common-wealths ? such articles of faith as these cannot but make brave and obedient subjects , and he must needs be a glorious and powerful prince , where such conceits are the main ingredients of his subjects religion . let any man shew me , what doctrines could have been more unluckily contrived to disturb government than these . and if men would study on purpose to frame and model a rebellious faith , these must have been their fundamental articles : and yet 't is sufficiently known where they have been both believed and practised . but further , is there not a sort of melancholy religionists in the world , whose very genious inclines them to quarrels and exceptions against the state , and management of publick affairs ? there is nothing so malepart as a splenetick religion ; the inward discontent and uneasiness of mens own minds maintains it self upon the faults and miscarriages of others : and we may observe , how this humour is ever venting it self in sighs and complaints for the badness of the times ( i. e. in effect of the government ) and in telling and aggravating little stories , that may reflect upon the wisdom and ability of their superiours . 't is impossible to please their fretful and anxious minds ; the very delights and recreations of the court shall stir their envy , and the vanities of the great ones grieve and wound their tender souls . however princes behave themselves , they can never win upon the affections of these people ; their very prosperity shall disoblige them , and they are ready upon all occasions to bring them to account for their misdemeanours : and if any of the grandees happen to be discontented , they have here a party ready formed for the purpose , to revenge their injury , and bring evil counsellors , that seduce the king , to iustice. and 't is not impossible but there may be a sort of proud and haughty men among us ( not over-well affected to monarchick government ) who , though they scorn , yet patronize this humour , as a check to the insolence and presumption of princes . again , are there not some whole sects of men , all whose religion is made up of nothing but passion , rancour , and bitterness ? all whose devotion is little better than a male-contentedness , their piety than a sanctified fury , and their zeal than a proud and spightful malice ; and who , by the genius of their principles , are brought infinitely and irrecoverably under the power of their passions ; 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . now , nothing imports governours so much as to manage mens passions ; in that 't is these , rather than our appetites , that disturb the world. a person that is debaucht and intemperate is indeed useless to the common-wealth , but he that is turbulent and passionate is dangerous . but then when passion is fired with religious zeal , nothing can temper its outragious and fanatick heats ; but it works the minds of men into rancour and bitterness , and drives them into all manner of savage and inhumane practices . princes have never found any thing so restive and ungovernable , as sectarian madness ; no malice so spightful and implacable , as the zeal of a godly party ; nor any rage so fierce and merciless , as sanctified barbarism . all the ancient tyranny has in some places been out-done by a thorough-godly reformation : zeal for the glory of god has often turn'd whole nations into shambles , fill'd the world with continual butcheries and massacres , and flesh'd it self with slaughters of myriads of mankind . and when men think their passions warranted by their religion , how is it possible it should be otherwise ? for this obliges them by their greatest hopes and fears to act them to the highest : and 't is easie to imagine what calm and peaceable things those men must be , who think it their duty to enforce and enrage their passions with the obligations of conscience . and yet alas ! how few are they , who have wisdom enough to keep their zeal clean from these sowre and crabbed mixtures ? the generality of men are scarce sensible of their spiritual wickednesses ; and 't is observable , that in all ages , and all religions of the world , few people have taken notice of them beside their wise men and philosophers . and even among the professors of christianity it self , notwithstanding that our religion has made such special provisions against all excesses of passion , and establish'd love , charity , moderation , patience , candor , and ingenuity , as its prime , and fundamental duties ; yet the spirit of meekness and humility soon decayed , with its primitive and apostolical professors ; and within a few centuries of years the church was over-run with some sects of men , much of the same temper with some of our modern saints . so that even in true and innocent perswasions 't is necessary to asswage the distempers and indiscretions of a forward zeal : the giddy multitude judge weakly , fancy strongly , and act passionately ; and , unless restrain'd by wary and sober laws , will drive on so furiously in a good cause , till they run their religion into folly and faction , and themselves into tumults and riotous proceedings . what socrates once said of vertue , that when it is not conducted by prudence , it is but pedantry , and a phantastick thing , is much more true of religion ; which , when it wants the guidance and ornament of this vertue , may be folly , or madness , or any thing rather than it self . in brief , fanaticism is both the greatest , and the easiest vice that is incident to religion ; 't is a weed that thrives in all soils , and there is the same fanatick spirit , that mixes it self with all the religions in the world. and 't is as natural to the common people , as the proud , or ignorant , or perverse , or factious , or stubborn , or eager , or passionate : for when ever any of these vices or follies are twisted with mens apprehensions of religion , they naturally work , and ferment their minds into a boysterous and tumultuary zeal . and yet how infinitely difficult it is to cure the common heard of these vices , the experience of all ages is too great a demonstration : so that there is nothing so apparently necessary , or difficult , as to govern the vulgar rout in their conceptions of religion ; seeing 't is so natural for them both to mix and heigthen , yes , and sanctifie their passions with their consciences . and from hence it is , that though the fanaticks in all nations may disagree in the objects and matters of their superstition , according to the different customs of their country , and variety of their educations ; yet as for their tendency to disturbance and sedition in the state , 't is in all places the same to all intents and purposes : and those unquiet sects , that have often disturb'd , and sometimes subverted whole kingdoms in africa , if they had hapned to have been born in europe , would have done the same here ; where though their religion might have been different , yet would their genius have been the same , as rising from the same conjunction of conscience and passion . and therefore it cannot but be a wonder to any man , that is acquainted with the experience of former ages , to see governours , after so many warnings , so insensible of this mischief : and however they may think themselves unconcern'd to restrain the opinions of any dissenting sect , as being perhaps but foolish and inconsiderable in themselves ; yet nothing can more highly concern them than to provide against their inclinations , as being generally of a sad and dangerous consequence to the state. and this at present may suffice to evince , how much it concerns authority to look to the particular principles and inclinations of every sect ; and to prove , that the meer belief of invisible powers , is so far from being religion enough to awe men to obedience ; that unless it be temper'd with a due sense of vertue , and managed with special prudence and discretion , it rather tends to make the rude multitude more head-strong and ungovernable . sect. . thirdly , to permit different sects of religion in a common-wealth , is only to keep up so many pretences and occasions for publick disturbance ; the factions of religion are ever the most seditious , and the less material their difference , the more implacable their hatred : as the turks think it more acceptable to god , to kill one persian than seventy christians . no hinge so vehemently alienates mens affections , as variety of judgment in matters of religion ; here they cannot disagree , but they must quarrel too : and when religion divides mens minds , no other common interest can unite them ; and where zeal dissolves friendship , the ties of nature are not strong enough to reconcile it . every faction is at open defiance with every faction , they are always in a state and posture of war , and engaged in a mortal and irreconcileable hatred against each other . when ever men part communion , every party must of necessity esteem the other impious and heretical ; in that they never divide but with pretences , that they could not agree without being guilty of some sin or other , as blasphemy , or idolatry , or superstition , or heresie , or the like : for all agree in this principle , that peace ought always to be preserved , where it can without offending god , and offering violence to conscience : and therefore they cannot but look upon one another , as lying under the divine wrath and displeasure , and consequently , in a damnable condition : and then are both parties engaged , as they love god , and the souls of men , to labour one another ruine . and when the party is form'd , and men are listed into it by chance and education , the distinguishing opinion of the party is to them the most material and fundamental article of their belief ; and so they must account of all that either disowne or deny it , as of heathens , infidels , and enemies to the faith. besides that , all men are naturally more zealous about the principles in which they differ , than about those in which they agree . opposition whets and sharpens their zeal , because it endangers the truths they contend for ; whereas those that are not opposed are secure and out of hazard of being stifled by the adverse party , that is concern'd equally with themselves for their preservation . and hence we see , by daily experience , that men , who are tame and cool enough in the fundamentals of religion , are yet utterly impatient about their own unlearned and impertinent wranglings , and lay a greater stress upon the speculations of their own sect , than upon the duties of an absolute and indispensable necessity ; only because those are contradicted by their adversaries , and these are not . well then , seeing all dissenting parties are possess'd with a furious and passionate zeal to promote their own perswasions , and seeing they are perswaded that their zeal is in god's cause , and against the enemies of god's truths ; how vain is it to expect peace and settlement in a common-wealth , where their religion keeps men in a state of war , where zeal is arm'd against zeal , and conscience encounters conscience , where the glory of god and the salvation of souls lies at stake , and where curse ye meroz is the word of both parties ? so that whatsoever projects fansiful men may propose to themselves , if we consider the passions of humane nature , as long as differences and competitions in religion are kept up , it will be impossible to keep down mutual hatreds , jealousies , and animosities ; and so many divided churches as there are in a state , there will ever be so many different armies , who , though they are not always in actual fighting , are always in a disposition to it . beside , where there are divided interests of religion in the same kingdom , how shall the prince behave himself towards them ? if he go about to ballance them against one another , this is the ready way to forfeit his interest in them all ; and whilst he seems concern'd for no party , no party will be really concern'd for him , every one having so much esteem for it self , as to think it ought to enjoy more of his favour and countenance than any other . and withal 't is an infinite trouble and difficulty to poise them so equally , but that one party shall grow more strong and numerous than the rest ; and then there is no appeasing their zeal , till it has destroyed and swallowed up all the weaker interests . but suppose he be able to manage them so prudently , as always to keep the ballance equal ; he does thereby but keep up so many parties , that are ready form'd to joyn with any emergent quarrels of state : and whenever the grandees fall out , 't is but heading one of these , and there is an army . and let men but reflect upon all the late civil wars , and rebellions of christendom , and then tell me , which way they could either have been commenced or continued , had it not been for different factions of religion . if he side with one party , and by his favour mount it above the rest , that not only discontents , but combines all the other dissenting factions into an united opposition against his own : and it becomes their common interest , to work and contrive its ruine ; its prosperity does but exasperate the competition of all its rivals into rage and indignation : and as success makes it self more secure in its settlement , so it makes them more restless and industrious to overturn it . no party can ever be quiet or content as long as 't is under any other , but will ever be heaving and struggling , to dismount the power that keeps it down : and therefore we find that all dissenters from the establish'd frame of things are always assaulting it with open violence , or undermining it by secret practices , and will hazard the state , and all , to free themselves from oppression ; and oppress'd they are , as long as they are the weaker party . and therefore we never find this way of toleration put in practice under any government , but where other exigences of state required and kept up a standing army ; and by this means 't is not so difficult to prevent the broils and contentions of zeal : but this is only a more violent way of governing mens consciences , and instead of restraining them by laws & penalties , it does the same thing with forts and cittadels : so that unless we are willing to put our selves to the expence and hazard of keeping up standing forces , indulgence to dissenting zealots does but expose the state to the perpetual squabbles and wars of religion . and we may as well suppose all men to be wise and honest , and upon that account cancel all the laws of justice and civil government , as imagine , where there are divided factions in religion , that men will be temperate and peaceable in the enjoyment of their own conceits , and not disturb the publick peace to promote and establish them ; when 't is so well known from the experience of all ages , that nothing has ever been a more effectual engine to work popular commotions , than changes and reformations in religion . sect. . so that though the state think it self unconcern'd to restrain mens perswasions and opinions , yet methinks they should be a little concern'd to prevent the tumults and disturbances that naturally arise from their propagation . and could it be secured , that if all men were indulged their liberty , they would use it modestly , and be satisfied with their own freedom , then ( i confess ) toleration of all opinions would not be of so fatal and dangerous consequence ; as if all men were as wise and honest as socrates , they might , as well as he , be their own law , and left entirely to their own liberty , as to all the entercourses and transactions of humane life . but alas ! this is made infinitely impossible , from the corrupt passions and humours of men : all sects ever were , and ever will be , fierce and unruly to inlarge their own interests , invading or supplanting whatever opposes their increase , and will all certainly conspire the ruine of that party that prevails and triumphs over the rest ; every faction ever apprehending it its due to be supreme : and there will ever be a necessity of reformation , as long as all factions are not uppermost ; and it will be crime enough in any one party , to be superiour to another . so that if all our dissenting sectaries were allowed their entire liberty , nothing can be expected ( especially from people of their complexion ) but that they should all plot together against the present establishment of the church ; every combination being fully perswaded of its worthlesness in comparison to it self : for unless they had apprehended their own way more excellent , they had never divided from ours . beside that 't is a fundamental principle that runs through all their sects , that they are bound under pain of eternal damnation to labour their utmost to establish the worship of god in in its greatest purity and perfection ; and withal apprehending that way now established by law defective and superstitious , they cannot but be bound in conscience to endeavour its utter ruine and subversion ; which design when they have once compassed , they entertaining the same opinion of each other as they do of us , they will turn their weapons upon themselves , and with as much zeal contrive each others destruction as they did ours : and the result of all will be , that the common-wealth will be eternally torn with intestine quarrels and commotions , till it grow so wise again as to suppress all parties but one ; that is , till it return to that wisdom and prudence from whence it parted by toleration . and therefore nothing can be more vulgarly observable , than that though all parties , whilst under the power of a more prevailing interest , have cried up toleration , as the most effectual instrument to shake and dissettle the present frame of things ; yet have they no sooner effected their design , than they have immediately put in to scramble for the supremacy themselves ; which if they once obtain , they have ever used with as much rigour and severity upon all dissenters , as they ever felt themselves . so that this principle of liberty of conscience much resembles that of community of goods ; for as those men cry up equality of estates , as a most reasonable piece of justice , that have but a small share themselves ; yet whenever their pretence succeeds , and they have advanced their own fortunes , and served their own turns , they are the first that shall then cry it down , and oppress their inferiours with more cruelty than ever themselves felt whilst in a lower station ; so do those whose private perswasions happen to cross the publick laws , easily pretend to liberty of conscience . one must yield ; and because their stubborn zeal scorns to bend to the commands of authority , these must be forced to give place to that : so that when conscience and authority happen to encounter , all the dispute is , which shall have most force in publick laws , whether my own or my princes opinion ? but how plausibly soever this notion may be pleaded by men out of power , 't is ever laid aside as soon as ever they come into it ; and the greatest pretenders to it when oppress'd , are always the greatest zealots against it , as soon as it has mounted themselves into power , as well knowing it to be the most effectual engine to overturn any settled frame of things . in brief , 't is reformation men would have , and not indulgence ; which they only seek to gain ground for the working of their mines , and planting of their engines , to subvert the established state of things . for if we demand , wherefore they would be born with in their dissentions from our way of worship ? they answer , because they cannot conform to it in conscience , i. e. because they apprehend it sinful ; for otherwise they must think themselves guilty of the most intollerable schism and rebellion , to create factions and divisions in a common-wealth , when they may avoid it without any violence to their consciences : but if they apprehend our way of worship upon any account sinful , then are they plainly obliged in conscience to root it out , as displeasing to almighty god , and in its stead to plant and establish their own . and now if this be the issue of this principle , let magistrates consider how fatal and hazardous alterations in religion have ever been to the common-wealth . they cannot pluck a pin out of the church , but the state immediately shakes and totters ; and if they will allow their subjects the liberty of changing and innovating in religion ( as it is apparent from the premisses they must , if they allow them their pretences to liberty of conscience ) they do but give them advantages for eternal popular commotions and disturbances . sect. . fourthly , a bare indulgence of men in the free exercise of any religion , different from the publick profession , can lay no obligation upon the party . perhaps when the rigour of a law , under which they have smarted a while , is at first relaxed , this indeed they may at present take for a kindness , because 't is really a favour in comparison to their former condition ; and therefore as long as the memory of that remains fresh upon their minds , it may possibly affect them with some grateful resentments . but alas ! these affections quickly vanish , and then what before was favour , is now become iustice ; and their prince did but restore them to their just and lawful rights , when he took off his tyrannical laws and impositions from the consciences of his best subjects . while those unjust laws were in force , he oppress'd and persecuted the people of god ; and therefore when he cancels them , all the kindness he is guilty of , is only to repent of his tyranny and persecution , which is no favour , and by consequence no obligation . and ( what is more considerable ) all the dissenting parties he permits , and does not countenance , he disobliges . is this all the kindness ( say they ) he can afford the godly , not to persecute them by law and force to their utter ruine ? are we beholden to him barely for suffering us to live in our native soil , and enjoy only our fundamental priviledges ? is this all the reward and encouragement we deserve ? are not we the praying and serious people of the nation , for whose sakes only the lord is pleased to stay among us ? and were it not for us , would he not perfectly forsake and abandon it ? and is this all our requital , to be thus slighted , and thus despised , only for our zeal to god , and serviceableness to the publick , by that power and interest we have in him , to keep him among us ; whilst vain and useless persons are countenanced and encouraged with all places of office and employment ? these are the natural results of the minds of men , who think themselves scorn'd and disrespected , especially when flush'd with any conceit and high opinion of their own godliness . and 't is an eternal truth , that for the godly party not to be uppermost , is and ever will be persecution . for nothing more certain , than that all men entertain the best opinion of their own party , otherwise they had never enrolled themselves in it : and therefore if the state value them not at as high a rate as they do themselves , they are scorn'd and injured , because they have not that favour and countenance they deserve . and so unless they have publick encouragement , as well as indulgence , they have reason to be discontented , because they have not their due . and if the prince do not espouse their party , he undervalues , and consequently disgusts them ; and if he joyn himself to any other ( as there is a necessity of his owning some profession ) he does not only disoblige , but alienate their affections , by embracing an interest they both hate and scorn . for , where-ever there is difference of religion , there is opposition too ; because men would never divide from one another , but upon grounds of real dislike ; and therefore they are always contrary in those differences that distinguish their parties . and this cannot but be a mighty endearment of their prince to them , when he neglects and discountenances his best subjects , only because they are the godly party ( for so every party is to it self ) to join himself to their profest and irreconcileable enemies . and they will be wonderfully forward to assist a patron of idolatry and superstition , or an enemy to the power of godliness ( for these are the softest words that different sects can afford one another . ) and withal i might adde , that they must needs be much in love with him , when they have reason to believe , that they lie perpetually under his displeasure , and that he looks upon them as little better than enemies . so that if a prince permit different parties and interests of religion in his dominions , however he carries himself towards them , he shall have at least all parties discontented but one : for if himself be of any , he displeases all but that ; if of none , he displeases all : and zealous and religious people of all sorts must needs be wonderfully in love with an atheist ; and there is no remedy , but he must at least be thought so , if he be not of any distinct and visible profession . chap. vi. of things indifferent , and of the power of the civil magistrate in things undetermined by the word of god. the contents . the mystery of puritanism lies in this assertion , that nothing ought to be established in the worship of god , but what is expresly commanded in the word of god. the wildness , novelty , and unreasonableness of this principle . it makes meer obedience to lawful authority sinful . it takes away all possibility of settlement in any church or nation . it is the main pretense of all pious villanies . it cancels all humane laws ; and makes most of the divine laws useless and impracticable . it obliges men to be seditious in all churches in the world , in that there is no church that has not some customs and vsages peculiar to it self . all that pretend this principle do and must act contrary to it . the exorbitancy of this principle makes all yielding and condescension to the men that plead it unsafe and impolitick . wherein the perfection and sufficiency of the holy scriptures consists . of the vanity of their distinction , who tell us , that the civil magistrate is to see the laws of christ executed , but to make none of his own . the dangerous consequents of their way of arguing , who would prove , that god ought to have determined all circumstances of his own worship . 't is scarce possible to determine all circumstances of any outward action , they are so many and so various . the magistrate has no way to make men of this perswasion comply with his will , but by forbidding what he would have done . the puritans upbraided with mr. hooker's book of ecclesiastical politie , and challeng'd to answer it . their out-cries against popery , will-worship , superstition , adding to the law of god , &c. retorted upon themselves . the main objection against the magistrates power in religion proposed , viz. that 't is possible that he may impose things sinful and superstitious . this objection lies as strongly against all manner of government . our inquiry is after the best way of settling things , not that possibly might be , but that really is . though ecclesiastical iurisdiction may be abused , yet 't is then less mischievous than liberty of conscience . the reason of the necessity of subjection to the worst of governours , because tyranny is less mischievous than rebellion or anarchy . the author of the book entituled , vindiciae contra tyrannos , confuted . that it may , and often does so happen , that 't is necessary to punish men for such perswasions into which they have innocently abused themselves . actions are punishable by humane laws , not for their sinfulness , but for their ill consequence to the publick . this applied to the case of a well-meaning conscience . sect. . all things , as well sacred as civil , that are not already determined as to their morality , i. e. that are not made necessary duties by being commanded , or sinful actions by being forbidden either by the law of nature , or positive law of god , may be lawfully determined either way by the supreme authority ; and the conscience of every subject is tied to yield obedience to all such determinations . this assertion i lay down to oppose the first and the last and the great pretence of non-conformity , and wherein ( as one observeth ) the very mystery of puritanism consisteth , viz. that nothing ought to be established in the worship of god , but what is authorized by some precept or example in the word of god ; that is the complete and adequate rule of worship : and therefore , christian magistrates are only to see that executed that christ has appointed in religion , but to bring in nothing of their own ; they are tied up neither to add nor diminish , neither in the matter nor manner : so that whatever they injoin in divine worship , if it be not expresly warranted by a divine command , how innocent soever it may be in it self , it presently upon that account loses not only its liberty but its lawfulness ; it being as requisite to christian practice , that things indifferent should still be kept indifferent , as things necessary be held necessary . this very principle is the only fountain and foundation of all puritanism , from which it was at first derived , and into which it is at last resolved . a pretence so strangely wild and humorsom , that it is to me an equal wonder , either that they should be so absurd as seriously to believe it ; or , if they do not , that they should be so impudent , as thus long and thus confidently to pretend it , when it has not the least shadow of foundation either from reason or from scripture ; and was scarce ever so much as thought of , till some men having made an unreasonable separation from the church of england , were forced to justifie themselves by as unreasonable pretences . for , what can be more incredible , than that things that were before lawful and innocent , should become sinful upon no other score than their being commanded , i. e. that meer obedience to lawful authority should make innocent actions criminal ? for the matter of the law is supposed of it self indifferent ; and therefore if obedience to the law be unlawful , it can be so for no other reason than because 't is obedience . so that if christian liberty be so awkard a thing ( as these men make it ) 't is nothing else but christian rebellion , 't is a duty that binds men to disobedience , and forbids things under that formality , because authority commands them . now what a reproach to the gospel is this , that it should be made the only plea for sedition ? what a scandal to religion , that tenderness of conscience should be made the only principle of disobedience ; and that nothing should so much incline men to be refractory to authority , as their being conscientious ? what a perverse folly is it to imagine , that nothing but opposition to government can secure our liberty ? and what a cross-grain'd thing is it , to restrain things only because they are matters of liberty ; and first to forbid princes to command them because they are lawful , and then subjects to do them only because they are commanded . but to expose the absurdity of this principle by some more particular considerations . § . first , the follies and mischiefs that issue from it , are so infinite , that there can be no setled frame of things in the world , that it will not overturn : and if it be admitted to all intents and purposes , there can never be an end of disturbances , and alterations in the church ; in that there never was , nor ever can be any form of worship in the world , that is to all circumstances prescribed in the world of god : and therefore if this exception be thought sufficient to destroy one , there is no remedy but it may , as occasion requires , serve as well to cashier all ; and by consequence take away all possibility of settlement . thus when upon this principle , the disciplinarians separated from the church of england , the independents upon the same ground separated from them , the anabaptists from the independents , the familists from the anabaptists , and the quakers from the familists , and every faction divided , and subdivided among themselves into innumerable sects , and undersects ; and as long as men act up to it , there is no remedy , but innovations must be endless . if it be urged against lord-bishops , 't is as severe against lay-presbyters ; if against musick in churches , then farewel singing of psalms in rhime ; if against the cross , why not against sprinkling in baptism ? and if against cathedral churches , then down go all steeple-houses : if against one thing , then against every thing ; and there is nothing in the exteriour parts of religion , but the two sacraments , that can possibly escape its impeachment . all the pious villanies , that have ever disturbed the christian world , have shelter'd themselves in this grand maxime , that iesus christ is the only law-maker to his church ; and whoever takes upon himself to prescribe any thing in religion , invades his kingly office. the gnosticks of old so abused this pretence to justifie any seditious and licentious practices , that they made heathen princes look upon christianity as an enemy to government ; and the fanaticks of late have so vex'd and embroil'd christendom with the same principle , that christian princes themselves begin to be of the same perswasion . 't is become the only patron and pretext of sedition : and when any subjects have a mind to set themselves free from the laws of their prince , they can never want this pretence to warrant their disobedience . seeing there is no nation in the world that has not divers laws , that are not recorded by the four evangelists ; and therefore if all humane institutions intrench upon our saviours kingly prerogative , they are , and ever must be , provided with matters of quarrel to disturb government , and justifie rebellion . § . secondly , nay further this fond pretence , if made use of to all the ends , for which it might as wisely serve , would cancel all humane laws , and make most of the divine laws useless ; which have only described the general lines of duty , but left their particular determinations to the wisdom of humane laws . now the laws of god cannot be put in practice , but in particular cases and circumstances , these cannot be determin'd but by the laws of man ; therefore if he can command nothing , but what is already prescribed to us in the word of god , he can have no power to see the divine laws put in execution . for where are described all the rules of justice and honesty ? where are determined all doubts and questions of conscience ? where are decided all controversies of right and wrong ? where are recorded all the laws of government and policy ? why therefore should humane authority be allowed to interpose in these great affairs , and yet be denied it in the customs of churches and rules of decency ? there is no possible reason to be assign'd but their own humour and fond opinion , they are resolved to believe it , and that is argument enough , for 't is unanswerable . how comes this proposition to be now limited to matters of meer religion , but only because this serves their turn ; for otherwise , why are not the holy scriptures as perfect a rule of civil , as of ecclesiastical policy ? why should they not be as complete a system of ethicks , as they are a canon of worship ? why do not these men require from the scriptures express commands for every action they do in common life ? how dare they take any physick , but what is prescribed in the word of god ? how dare they commence a suit at law , without warranty from scripture ? how dare they do any natural action , without particular advice and direction of holy writ ? § . thirdly , but as foolish as this opinion is , its mischief equals its folly ; for 't is impossible but that these sons of strife and singularity must have been troublesom and seditious in all churches and common-wealths . had they lived under the jewish church , why then , where has moses commanded the feast of purim , the feast of the dedication , the fasts of the fourth , the fifth , the seventh , and the tenth months : what warrant for the building of synagogues ? and what command for that significant ceremony of wearing sack-cloth and ashes , in token of humiliation ? if in the primitive ages of christianity , why then , where did our saviour appoint the love-feasts ? where has he instituted the kiss of charity ? where has he commanded the observations of lent and easter ? where the lords-day sabbath ? and , where all their other commemorative festivals ? vide tertull . de coronâ , c. . will they retreat to the lutheran churches , they will there meet with not only all the same , but many more antichristian and superstitious ceremonies to offend their tender consciences , and will find themselves subject to the same discipline and government , saving that their superintendents want the antichristian honours and revenues of the english bishops , partly through the poverty of the country , partly through the injury of sacriledge , but mainly because the church revenues are in the possession of romish bishops ? will they to france , there , notwithstanding the unsetled state of the protestants of that nation , through want of the assistance of the civil power , they shall meet with their liturgies , and establisht forms of prayer , and change of apparel for divine service , as well as at home ? if they will to geneva , there mr. calvin's common-prayer-book is as much imposed , as the liturgy of the church of england ; there they are enjoyn'd the use of wafer-cakes , the custom of godfathers , and godmothers , bidding of prayer , proper psalms not only for days , but for hours of the day , with divers other rites and ceremonies , that are no where recorded in the word of god. in a word , what church in the world can affirm these were the only customs of the apostolical age , and that the primitive church never used more or less than these ? so that these men of scruple , that renounce communion with the church of england , must do the same with all churches in the world ; in that there is not any one church in christendom , whose laws and customs are not apparently liable either to the same , or as great exceptions . now magistrates must needs be obligd to deal wonderful gently with such tender consciences as these , that are acted by such nice and unhappy principles , as must force them to be troublesom and unpeaceable in any common-wealth in the world. nay , what is more notorious than all this , these men have all along , in pursuit of this principle , run directly counter to their own practices and perswasions . for , not to puzzle them to discover in which of the gospels is injoyn'd the form of publick penance in the kirk of scotland , or to find out the stool of repentance either among the works of bezaleel , or the furniture of the temple ; we read indeed of beesoms , and flesh-forks , and pots , and shovels , and candlesticks , but not one syllable of joynt-stools . let them tell me , what precept or example they have in the holy scriptures for singing psalms in meeter ? where has our saviour or his apostles enjoyn'd a directory for publick worship ? and that which themselves imposed , what divine authority can it challenge , beside that of an ordinance of lords and commons ? what precept in the word of god can they produce for the significant form of swearing ( by laying their hand upon the bible ) which yet they never scrupled ? what scripture command have they for the three significant ceremonies of the solemn league and covenant , viz. that the whole congregation should take it ( . ) uncovered , ( . ) standing , ( . ) with their right hand lift up bare . now , what a prodigious piece of impudence was this , that when they had not only written so many books with so much vehemence against three innocent ceremonies of the church , only because they were significant , but had also involved the nation in a civil war ( in a great measure ) for their removal , and had arm'd themselves and their party against their sovereign with this holy league of rebellion , that even then they should impose three others , so grosly and so apparently liable to all their own objections ? what clearer evidence can we possibly have , that it is not conscience , but humour and peevishness that dictates their scruples ? and , what instance have we , in any nation of the world , of any schism and faction so unreasonably begun and continued ? the rebellion of corah indeed may resemble , but nothing can equal it . and from hence we may discover , how vain a thing it is to make proposals and condescensions to such unreasonable men , when 't is so impossible to satisfie all their demands ; and suppose we should yield and deliver up to their zeal , those harmless ceremonies , they have so long worried with so much fury and impatience ; it would only cherish them in their restless and ungovernable perswasions : for whilst their peevish tempers are acted by this exorbitant principle , the affairs of religion can never be so setled , as to take away all occasions and pretences of quarrel ; in that there never can be any circumstances of religious worship , against which this principle may not as rationally be urged ( and 't is impossible to perform religious worship without some circumstance or other : and if all men make not use of it against all particulars , 't is because they are humoursom as well as seditious , and so allow one thing upon the same principle they disavow another : for certainly otherwise it were impossible , that any men should , when they pray , refuse to wear a surplice ; and yet when they swear , ( which is but another sort of divine worship ) never scruple to kiss the gospel . so that whoever seriously imbibes this perswasion , and upon that account withdraws himself from the communion of the church , he understands not the consequences of his opinion ; if it does not lead him down to the lowest folly of quakerism , which after divers gradual exorbitances of other less extravagant sects , was but the last and utmost improvement of this principle . and therefore , whilst men are possess'd with such a restless and untoward perswasion , what can be more apparently vain , than to talk of accommodations , or to hope for any possibility of quiet and setlement , till authority shall see it necessary ( as it will first or last ) to scourge them into better manners , and wiser opinions ? so that we see the weight of the controversie lies not so much in the particular matters in debate , as in the principles upon which 't is managed ; and for this very reason , though we are not so fond as to believe the constitutions of the church unalterable , yet we deem it apparently absurd , to forego any of her establish'd ceremonies out of compliance with these mens unreasonable demands : which as it would be coarsly impolitick upon divers other accounts , so mainly by yielding up her laws , and by consequence submitting her authority to such principles as must be eternal and invincible hindrances of peace and setlement . this , let them consider whom it most concerns . § . fourthly , as for their principle of the perfection and sufficiency of the holy scriptures , 't is undeniably certain as to the fundamental truths , and substantial duties of christian religion ; but when this rule , that is suited only to things necessary , is as confidently applied to things accessory , it lays in the minds of men impregnable principles of folly and superstition : for confounding them in their different apprehensions between the substantial duties , and external circumstances of religion ; and making them of equal value and necessity , it makes the doing , or not doing of a thing , necessary to procure the divine acceptance , which god himself has not made so ; and places a religion in things that are not religious , and possesseth the minds of men with false and groundless fears of god : wherein consisteth the very essence and formality of superstition . whereas were they duly instructed in the great difference between things absolutely necessary , and things meerly decent , and circumstantial ; this would not only preserve them in the right notions of good and evil , but also keep up the purity of religion , decency of worship , and due reverence of authority . and therefore when these men would punctually tye up the magistrate to add nothing to the worship of god , but what is enjoyn'd in the word of god , if their meaning be of new articles of belief , 't is notoriously impertinent ; because to this no civil magistrate pretends ; but if their meaning be , that the magistrate has no authority to determine the particular circumstances of religion , that are left undetermined by the divine law , 't is then indeed to the purpose , but as notoriously false ; in that we are certainly bound to obey him in all things lawful , and every thing is so , that is not made unlawful by some prohibition ; for things become evil not upon the score of their being not commanded , but upon that of their being forbidden ; and what the scripture forbids not , it allows ; and what it allows , is not unlawful ; and what is not unlawful , may lawfully be done : and therefore it must needs be our duty to conform to all circumstances of worship , that are determined by lawful authority , if they are not antecedently forbidden by the law of god , though they are not commanded . things that are not determined remain indifferent ; what is indifferent is lawful , and what is lawful the magistrate may lawfully command ; and if it be sinful to obey him in these things , 't is so to obey him at all ; for all things are either lawful or unlawful : 't is a sin to obey him in things unlawful , and if it be so in things lawful too , then is all obedience sinful . § . fifthly , when they tell us , that the civil magistrate is indeed to see to the execution of the laws of christ , but to make none of his own : 't is a distinction without a difference ; for if he may provide for the execution of the laws of religion , then may he make laws that they shall be executed ; this being the most proper and effectual means to promote their execution : so that nothing can be more vain than to deny the civil magistrate a power of making laws in religion , and yet to allow him an authority to see the laws of religion executed ; because that is so apparently implyed in this , in that whoever has a power to see that laws be executed , cannot be without a power to command their execution : especially if we consider the particular nature of the laws of christ , that they have only determined the substance and morality of religious worship , and therefore must needs have left the ordering of its circumstances to the power and wisdom of lawful authority ; & whatever they determine about them , is but in order to the execution of the laws of god ; in that whatever they enjoyn cannot be put in practice , without being clothed with some particular circumstances , and reduced to some particular cases . thus when the holy apostle sets us down a general rule , that all things be done in order and decency , without determining what the things are that are conducive to it , the determination of this rule when 't is reduced to practice , must be entirely left to the government of the church , that must judge what things are decent and orderly ; and what laws it establishes in order to it , though they are but further pursuances of the apostolical precept , yet are they new and distinct commands by themselves , and injoyn something , that the scripture no where commands . so that the divine laws being general , and general laws not being to be put in execution , but in particular cases and instances , he that has authority to look to the execution of these general laws , must withal be vested with a power to determine with what particular instances , cases , and circumstances they shall be put in practice and execution . and here when they tell us , that it cannot stand with the love and wisdom of god , not to take order himself for all things that immediately concern his own worship and kingdom ; and that if iesus christ has not determined all particular rites and circumstances of religion , he has discharged his office with less wisdom and fidelity than moses ; who ordered every thing appertaining to the worship of god , even as far as the pins and nails of the tabernacle , with divers others the like idle and impertinent reasonings : one would think that men who argue at this rate , had already at least discovered in the holy scriptures a complete form of religious worship , as to all particular rites and ceremonies of an eternal , universal , and unchangeable obligation ; and therefore till they can believe this themselves , and prove it to others , instead of returning solemn answers to such baffled and intolerable impertinencies , i shall only advise them , to consider the unlucky consequents of their way of arguing , when instead of producing a particular form of publick worship , prescribed by god himself , they with their wonted modesty prove he ought to have done it ; and that unless he has done it , he has been defective in his care & providence over his church : for what can the issue of this be , but that god is chargeable with want of wisdom or goodness , or with some other defect , even by certain and infallible experience ? for , if he has not determined every particular circumstance of worship , then he must stand charged with all the absurdities , they object against their being left undetermined ; and therefore if no such prescribed form can be produced , ( as 't is infinitely certain none ever can ) then let them consider , what follows ▪ so unhappy a thing is it , when men will needs be disputing against experience ; whose evidence is so powerful and forcible upon the minds of men , that demonstration it self is not strong enough to cope with it : how much less the weak and puny arguments , wherewith these men assault it ? sect. . sixthly , there is no particular action but what is capable of a strange and unaccountable variety of circumstances , nor any part of outward worship but may be done after a thousand different modes and fashions ; in that as every action is clothed with natural and emergent circumstances , so is every circumstance with its circumstances , every one of which may be modified in sundry ways and manners . and therefore , in this infinite variety of things , the laws of god prescribe only the general lines of duty , and rarely descend to their particular determinations , but leave them to be determined by prudence and discretion , by choice , and custom , by laws , and prescriptions , and by all those ways by which humane affairs are governed and transacted . thus for example , the divine law has made charity a standing and eternal duty , but has left its particular way of expression undetermined , and uncommanded : and 't is indifferent whether it be done by building of colledges , or churches , or hospitals ; by repairing of bridges , or rivers , or high-ways ; by redeeming of slaves and prisoners ; by hospitality to the poor , or provision for orphans ; or by any other way of publick or private bounty : and when a man 's own thoughts have determined his own choice to one or more of these particulars , even that is vested with a strange number of accidents and circumstances , which must of necessity be left entirely to the conduct of his own reason and discretion . and the case is the same , as in all other duties of moral virtue ; so in that of religious gratitude , or divine worship , this duty it self is of a natural and essential necessity ; but yet may and must be performed with an unconceivable variety of dresses , customs and ways of expression , that are left utterly free and undetermined in scripture : any of which may be decently used , provided they do not make debasing representations of god , wherein consists the proper folly of idolatry and superstition . and all the advantages of order and solemnity , wherewith religion may be prudently adorned , are not only lawful , but decent , although they are not warranted by any precept in the word of god ; that neither has , nor indeed can determine all particular modes and circumstances of worship , they are so various , and so changeable . and men may , with as much reason , search the holy records for the methods of legal proceedings in our common law courts , as for particular rubricks and prescriptions of all outward forms and circumstances of publick worship : so that what these men demand is so unreasonable , that , considering the nature of things , 't is impossible . sect. . and this may suffice to demonstrate the unparallel'd follies and mischiefs of this principle . which being all i intend at present , i suppose it needless to engage in any further scholastick disputes , about the nature of indifferent actions , and some other less material controversies that depend upon this ; partly because this principle on which alone they stand , being removed , they become utterly groundless , and so by its confutation are sufficiently confuted ; and partly because all this has been so often , so fully , and so infinitely performed already . and of all the controversies that have ever been started in the world , it will be hard to find any that have been more fairly pursued and satisfactorily decided , than this of the church of england , against its puritan adversaries ; that has all along been nothing else but a dispute between rational learning , and unreasonable zeal . and it has been no less an unhappiness , than it was a condescension in the defenders of our church ; that they have been forced to waste their time and their parts , in baffling the idle cavils of a few hot-headed and brain-sick people . and there is scarce a greater instance of the unreasonableness of mankind , than these mens folly , in persisting so obstinately in their old and pitiful clamours , after they have been so convincingly answered , and so demonstratively confuted . and indeed how is it possible to satisfie such unreasonable men , when their greatest exception against the constitutions of the church has ever been no other than , that they were the churches constitutions ? insomuch , that if authority should think good out of compliance with their cross demands , to command what they now think necessary , that must then , according to their principles , become unlawful : because ( forsooth ) where they take away the liberty of an action , they destroy its lawfulness . now what possibly could have betrayed men into so absurd a perswasion , but a stubborn resolution to be refractory to all authority , and to be subject to nothing but their own insolent humours ? and as long as they lie under the power of this perswasion , that they are obliged in conscience to act contrary to whatever their superiours command them in the worship of god , the magistrate has no other way left to decoy them into obedience , but by forbidding what he would have them do , and commanding what he would have them forbear ; and then if he will accept to be obeyed by disobedience , he shall find them ( good men ) the most obedient subjects in the world . sect. . but to return to what i was saying , instead of troubling my self with any further confutation of so baffled a cause , i shall rather chuse to do it more briefly , and yet perhaps more effectually , by uybraiding them with their shameful overthrows , and daring them but to look those enemies in the face , that have so lamentably cowed them by so many absolute triumphs and victories : and , not to mention divers other learned and excellent persons , i shall only single out that famous champion of our church , mr. hooker ; upon him let them try their courage ( though by so safe a challenge i do but give proof of my own cowardise . ) how long has his incomparable book of ecclesiastical polity bid shameful defiance to the whole party , and yet never found any so hardy as to venture upon an encounter ? now this author being confessedly a person of so much learning , candour , judgment , and ingenuity , and withal so highly prized , and insisted upon by the regular and obedient sons of the church , that they have in a manner cast the issue of the whole cause upon his performance : what is the reason he was never vouchsafed so much as the attempt of a just reply ? 't is apparent enough both by their writings , and their actions , that they have not wanted zeal ; and therefore that he has escaped so long free from all contradiction , 't is not for want of good will , but ability ; not because they would not , but because they were convinced they could not confute him . so that the book it self is as full and demonstrative a confutation of their cause , as the matters contained in it ; i. e. 't is unanswerable , ( and i know nothing can do it more effectually , unless perhaps a reply to it ) and shall live an eternal shame and reproach to their cause , when that is dead ; and would probably have been buried in utter forgetfulness , were it not for this trophy of success against them : and therefore , until they can at least pretend to have returned some satisfactory answer to that discourse , they prove nothing but their own impudence ; whilst they continually pelt us with their pamphlets , and such little exceptions , that have been so long since so shamefully and demonstratively baffled . sect. . and whereas they are wont , in order to the making their principles look more plausibly , to stuff their discourses with frequent and tragical declamations against popery , will-worship , superstition , &c. i cannot perswade my self , 't is worth the labour to wipe off such idle reproaches , by solemnly discoursing these matters ; both because this has been so frequently and fully performed already , and because , though these outcries have been made use of to affright silly people ; yet few , if any of their ring-leaders are still so fond either to own this charge against us , or to plead it in their own justification . only i cannot but observe of all these and the like pretences , that we need not any stronger arguments against themselves , than their own objections against us . for if in this case there be any superstition , 't is they that are guilty of it : for this vice consists not so much in the nature of things , as in the apprehensions of men , when their minds are possessed with weak and unworthy conceits of god. now he that conforms to the received customs and ceremonies of a church , does it not so much upon the account of any intrinsick value of the things themselves , as out of a sense of the necessity of order , and of the duty of obedience : whereas he that scrupulously refuses to use and practise them , takes a wrong estimate of the divine wisdom and goodness , and imagines that god judges his creatures by nice and pettish laws , and lays a greater stress upon a doubtful or indifferent ceremony , than upon the great duty of obedience , and the peace and tranquillity of the church . so that the principles upon which we proceed , are no other , than , that , as the divine law has prescribed the substantial duties of religion ; so it has left its modes and circumstances undetermined : but because every action must be done some way or other , and be vested with some circumstances or other ; and because the generality of men are not so apt to be abused with fantastick and ridiculous conceits in any thing , as in matters of religion ; therefore we think it necessary , for the prevention of all the follies & indecencies , that ignorance and superstitious zeal would introduce into the worship of god , that the publick laws should determine some circumstances of order and decency ; which have at least this advantage , that they provide against the mischiefs of disorder and confusion : and therefore we place no antecedent necessity in any of the particular rites and ceremonies of our church , but only think it highly convenient , if not absolutely necessary , that some be prescribed ; that there is an handsomness and beauty in these that are prescribed : and therefore , because 't is necessary that some be determined , and because these are , rather than divers others , already settled , we think they have an indispensable necessity superinduced upon them , consequent to the determinations of authority . no man affirms , that we cannot serve god acceptably without a surplice ; but yet , because 't is but requisite that publick worship should be performed with beauty and solemnity ; and because the use of this vestment is but handsom and beautiful , and prevents slovenliness and indecency , 't is but agreeable that it should be injoin'd , as any other decent habit might have been : and when this is singled out by authority , it then becomes consequentially necessary : whereas those , who forbid things indifferent as sinful , and lay obligations upon mens consciences , to abstain from what is innocent , and make that necessary not to be done , which god has left at liberty , and made lawful to be done ; usurp upon mens consciences , by imposing fetters on them , where god has left them free , and become guilty of the most palpable piece of superstition , by teaching their own prohibitions for doctrines ; and so making it a necessary duty , and part of divine worship , to abstain from what god has no where forbidden ; and making it a mortal and damnable sin , to do what is innocent ; and supposing that god will , or at least justly may , inflict eternal torments upon men , for making their addresses to him , rather in a cleanly white vestment , than in a taylors cloak , or perhaps in mechanical querpo . sect. ii. and then as for their out-cry against will-worship , 't is the very same with that against superstition ; for 't is one sort of it , and is criminal no farther than 't is superstitious . now when they exclaim against superstition , they mean only that part of it that consists in will-worship , and when against will-worship , 't is only as 't is a branch of superstition : so that these two impertinent clamours signifie but the same thing under different denominations , and so amount but to one . but however this is 't is certain , that will-worship consists in nothing else than in mens making their own fancies and inventions necessary parts of religion , whereby they make that requisite to procure the divine acceptance , that god has no where required ; and 't is the same thing whether this be done by injunctions or prohibitions : and they that affirm the doing or not doing of an action which god has no where either commanded or forbidden to be necessary duties , are equally guilty of this crime : and therefore if these men make it necessary to forbear what god has no where forbidden , they teach their own fancies for doctrines , and impose something as a part of the service of god , on their own , and other mens consciences , that the law of god has not imposed ; and withal so unworthily mis-represent the divine wisdom and goodness , as to labour to make the world believe , that god has such an abhorrency to a thing so innocent as a white garment , that , to worship him in it , is sufficient to bring us under his everlasting wrath and displeasure ; for every thing that is sinful , is as well in their , as our , esteem mortal & damnable . but then , as for our own parts , they cannot be more apparently guilty of this piece of folly , then we are clear and innocent from its very suspicion ; because all rituals , and ceremonies , and postures , and manners of performing the outward expressions of devotion , are not in their own nature capable of being parts of religion ; and therefore unless we used and imposed them as such , 't is lamentably precarious to charge the determination of them with will-worship ; because that consists in making those things parts of religion , that god has not made so . so that when the church expresly declares against this use of them , and only injoins them as meer circumstances of religious worship , 't is apparent that it cannot by imposing them , make any additions to the worship of god , but only provides , that what god has required , be performed in a decent and orderly manner . sect. . and then as for christian liberty , why should we suffer them so far to invade ours , as to renounce those things as criminal , which we believe to be innocent ? and if things indifferent when injoin'd lose not only their liberty , but their lawfulness ; then why not when forbidden , and that by an incompetent authority ? when our superiours impose rules of decency , and law of discipline , they do not infringe our christian liberty ; because they do not abolish the indifferency of things themselves , wherein alone it consisteth : and though they become thereby necessary duties , 't is not from the nature and necessity of the thing it self , but from the obligations of obedience , or some emergent reasons of order and decency : whereas nothing can be more plain , than that these men do not only abridge our liberty , but also lay insolent confinements upon the supreme power , by making things indifferent so absolutely unlawful , that they will not allow the just commands of lawful authority sufficient to make them cease to be sinful . how oft , and how plainly have they been told , that , when authority injoins things left indifferent , and undetermined by the word of god , 't is so far from incroaching upon our christian liberty , that it rather confirms it ? in that this supposes that the things themselves may , or may not be either done or enjoined , according to the dictates of prudence and discretion ; but when they are once determined by publick laws , though the matter of the law be indifferent , yet obedience to it is not . whereas when they will not permit their governours to injoin these things , and if they do , will not obey their injunctions , do they not apparently intrench upon our liberty , by making what christ has left indifferent , necessary ; and , under pretences of asserting their christian liberty , take upon them to confine the rights of authority ? but to all this , as evident as it is , nothing can make them attend ; but they still deafly proceed in their old clamours : which is too clear an argument , that 't is not reason that dictates their exceptions , but humour , prejudice , and peevishness . sect. . and then as for their declamations against adding to the law of god , to be short , i appeal to the reason of all mankind , whether any men in the world are more notoriously guilty of unwarrantable additions than these , who forbid those things as sinful , and consequently under pain of damnation , which the law of god has no where forbidden ? what is it to teach the commandments of men for doctrines , but to teach those things to be the law of god that are not so ? and , what can more charge the divine law of imperfection , than to teach that a man may perform all that it has commanded , and yet perish for not doing something , that it has not commanded ? and so do they , who make it necessary not to do something that god has left indifferent . whereas nothing can be more unreasonable than to tax the church of making additions to the law of god , because all her laws are imposed , not as laws of god , but as laws of men , and so are not more liable to this charge than iustinian's institutes , and littleton's tenures . and then in the last place , as for their noise against popery , ( a term , that , as well as some other angry words , signifies any thing that some men dislike ) i shall say no more , than , that we have most reason to raise this out-cry , when they take upon themselves ( as well as the old gentleman at rome ) to controul the laws of the secular powers . and what do they , but set up a pope in every mans conscience , whilst they vest it with a power of countermanding the decrees of princes ? these things cannot but appear with an undeniable evidence to any man , that is not invincibly either ignorant , or wilful , or both : and therefore 't is time they should , at least for shame , if they will not for conscience , cease to disturb the church with clamour , and exceptions so miserably impertinent , that i blush for having thus far pursued them with a serious confutation . and therefore leaving them and their impertinencies together , ( for i despair of ever seeing these old and dear acquaintances parted ) i shall now address my self to clear off one more material and more plausible objection , and so conclude this particular . and 't is this . sect. . 't is possible , the magistrate may be deceived in his determinations , and establish a worship that is in its own nature sinful and superstitious ; in which case ( if what i contend for be true ) all his subjects must either be rebels , or idolaters : if they obey , they sin against god ; if they disobey , they sin against their sovereign . this is the last issue of all that is objected in this controversie , and the only argument that gives gloss and colour to all their other trifling pretences : and yet 't is no more than what may be as fairly objected against all government of moral and political affairs ; for there 't is as possible , that the supreme power may be mistaken in its judgment of good and evil ; and yet no man will deny the civil power of princes , because they are fallible , and may perhaps abuse it . and yet in this alone lies all the strength of this objection against their ecclesiastical jurisdiction , because forsooth , 't is possible they may erre , and manage it to evil purposes . but whatever force it carries in it , it rather strikes at the divine providence , than my assertion , and charges that of being defective in making sufficient provisions for the due government of mankind , in that it has not set over us infallible judges and governours : for unless all magistrates be guided by an unerring spirit , 't is possible they may act against the ends of their institution ; and if this be a sufficient objection against their authority , it must of necessity overthrow the power of all fallible judicatures , and make governours as incompetent judges in matters of morality and controversies of right and wrong , as in articles of faith and religion . and therefore our enquiry is , to find out the best way of setling the world , that the state of things is capable of : if indeed mankind were infallible , this controversie were at an end ; but seeing that all men are liable to errors and mistakes , and seeing there is an absolute necessity of a supreme power in all publick affairs , our question ( i say ) is , what is the most prudent , and expedient way of setling them ; not that possibly might be , but that really is ? and this ( as i have already sufficiently proved ) is , to devolve their management on the supreme civil power ; which though it may be imperfect and liable to errors and mistakes , yet 't is the least so , and is a much better way to attain publick peace and tranquillity , than if they were entirely left to the ignorance and folly of every private man , which must of necessity be pregnant with all manner of mischiefs and confusions . so that this method , i have assign'd , being comparatively the best way of government of all ecclesiastical , as well as civil affairs , is not to be rejected , because 't is liable to some inconveniences ; but rather to be embraced above all others , because 't is liable to incomparably the fewest . and if it so happen , that some private persons suffer wrong from this method of proceeding , yet this private injury has an ample compensation from the publick benefit that arises from it ; and when it so falls out that either the whole society , or one individual must suffer , 't is easie to determine , that better one honest man perish , than a million . the inconveniences of a bad government are inconsiderable , in comparison to anarchy and confusion ; and the evils , that fall upon particular men from its unskilful or irregular administration , are vastly too little to weigh against the necessity of its institution . sect. . and upon this principle stands the necessity of subjection and obedience to all authority , in that , though its ill management may happen to bring many and great inconveniences upon the publick ; yet they cannot equal the mischiefs of that confusion which must necessarily arise , if subjects are warranted to disobey , or resist government , whenever they shall apprehend 't is ill administred . perhaps never any government was so good , as to be administred with exact justice and equity , nor any governour so wise , as not to be chargeable with faults and miscarriages ; and therefore if upon every quarrel every wise or honest man can pick against the laws of the common-wealth , he may lawfully withdraw his obedience , what can follow but a certain and unavoidable dissolution of government , when every man will be commanded by nothing , but his own perswasions , that is himself ? and upon this account 't is that the law of god has tied upon us such an absolute and indispensable subjection to authority , which though it may be mischievous , yet 't is less so than disobedience : and the world must be govern'd , as it can be , by men , and not as it might be , by angels . the management indeed of humane affairs is generally bad enough , but 't is as well as can probably be expected , if we consider the weaknesses and imperfections of humane nature : and therefore we must bear it as well as we can : because if we go about to alter any present setlement , we must almost of necessity make it worse : and all the effects of such attempts have seldom ended in any thing else but perpetual confusions , till things have at length resetled in the same , or as bad , ( if not a worse ) condition than they were in before . the miseries of tyranny are less , than those of anarchy ; and therefore 't is better to submit to the unreasonable impositions of nero , or caligula , than to hazard the dissolution of the state , and consequently all the calamities of war and confusion , by denying our subjection to tyrants . and there never was any lawful magistrate so bad , whose laws and government were not more conducive to the preservation of the common good , than his oppression was to subvert it : and 't is wisely eligible to suffer a less evil , rather than lose a greater good . 't is a known , and a wise saying of tacitus ; bonos principes voto expetere debemus , qualescunque pati ; & quomodo sterilitatem , aut nimios imbres , & caetera naturae mala , sic luxum & avaritiam dominantium tolerare . and this , in one word , is not only a satisfactory answer , but an ample confutation of that pestilent book , ( vindiciae contra tyrannos ) the scope whereof is , only to invite subjects to rebel against tyrannical government , by representing the evils of tyranny : which though they were as great , as he supposes them to be ; yet they are abundantly less than those that follow upon rebellion , as himself and his party were sufficiently taught by the event . and for one common-wealth , he can instance in , that has gain'd by rebellion ; 't is easie to produce an hundred that it has hazarded , if not utterly ruined . and therefore this author ( not to mention mariana , and buchanan , and others ) has perform'd nothing in behalf of his cause , by displaying the miseries of a tyrannical power , unless he had withal evinced them to be more calamitous than those of war and confusion . there is nothing in this world , that depends upon the freedom of man's will , can be so securely establish'd , as not to be liable to sad inconveniences ; and therefore that constitution of affairs is most eligible , that is liable to the fewest . and upon this score , i say , it is that the divine law has so severely injoin'd us to submit to the worst of governours ; because notwithstanding that tyranny is an oppressing burden of humane life , yet 't is less intolerable than a state of war and confusion . sect. . but to speak more expresly to the particular matter in debate , 't is necessary the world must be govern'd ; govern'd it cannot be without religion , & religion , as harmless and peaceable as it is in it self , yet when mixt with the follies and passions of men , it does not usually inspire them with overmuch gentleness and goodness of nature ; and therefore 't is necessary that it submit to the same authority , that commands over all the other affections of the mind of man. and we may as well suppose all men just and honest , and upon that account cancel all the laws of equity , as suppose them wise and sober in their religious conceits , and upon that score take off all restraints from the excesses and enormities of zeal . 't is therefore as necessary to the preservation of publick peace , that men should be govern'd in matters of religion , as in all other common affairs of humane life . and as for all the inconveniences that may follow from it , they are no other , than what belong to all manner of government , and such as are , and must be , unavoidable as long as mankind is endued with liberty of will ; for so long he cannot be intrusted with any power , how good soever , that he may not abuse . and therefore for men to go about to abrogate the ecclesiastical iurisdiction of the civil magistrate , because he may abuse it to evil and irreligious ends , by establishing idolatry , instead of the true worship of god ; ( in which case 't is pity that good men should be exposed to ruine , only for preserving a good conscience ) 't is just as reasonable as if they should cashier all manner of government , and set men free from all oaths and obligations of allegiance ; because 't is possible some usurper may gain the supreme power , and then force his subjects to abjure all their former oaths to their lawful sovereign ; and 't is pity that men of the gallantest , and most honest principles , should be fined , decimated , hanged , banish'd , and murdered only for their loyalty to their prince . and thus will the parallel run equal in all cases between the civil and ecclesiastical authority of the supreme powers : both may be , and often are lamentably abused ; and therefore if that be reason enough to abolish one , 't is so to abolish both : so that the whole result of all amounts only to this enquiry , whether it would not be a politick course to take away all government , because all government may be abused ? sect. . though this be a sufficient reply to the objection , yet it will not be altogether impertinent or unnecessary to abet it with this one consideration more . that it may , and often does so happen , that 't is necessary to punish men for such perswasions into which they have perhaps innocently abused themselves : for 't is easily possible for well-meaning people through ignorance and inadvertency to be betrayed into such unhappy errors , as may tend to the publick disturbance , which though it be not so much their crime as infelicity , yet is there no remedy but it must expose them to the correction of the publick rods and axes . magistrates are to take care of the common-wealth , and not of every particular mans concerns : and the end of all their laws is to provide for the welfare of the publick , that is their charge , and that they must secure ; and if any harmless and well-meaning man make himself obnoxious to the penalties of the law , that is a misfortune they cannot prevent , and therefore must deal with him , as they do with all other offenders ; that is , pity , and punish him . private interest must yield to publick good , and therefore , when they cannot stand together , and there is no remedy but one must suffer , 't is better certainly that one , or a few , should perish than the whole community . neither is it possible that any laws should be so warily contrived , but that some innocent persons may sometimes fall under their penalties ; yet , because 't is more beneficial to the publick welfare , that now and then a guiltless person should suffer , than that all the guilty should escape ; in that the former injures but one , the latter all : therefore is it necessary to govern all societies by laws , and penalties , without regard to the ill fortune that may befal a few single persons , which can hardly be avoided whilst the laws are in force : and yet 't is necessary that either the same , or some other in their stead be establish'd , that will be liable to the same inconvenience . besides , 't is not unworthy observation , that it is not so properly the end of government to punish enormities , as to prevent disturbances ; and when they bring malefactors to justice ( as we term it ) they do not so much inflict a punishment upon the crime , ( for that belongs peculiarly to the cognizance of another tribunal ) as provide for the welfare of the common-wealth , by cutting off such persons as are pests and enemies to it , and by the example of their punishment deter others from the like practices . and therefore there are some sins , of which governours take not so much notice , that are more hainous in themselves , and in the sight of god , than others that they punish with capital inflictions ; because they are not in their own nature so destructive of the ends of government , and the good of publick societies . so that actions being punishable by humane laws , not according to the nature of the crime , but of their ill consequence to the publick , when any thing that is otherwise even innocent , is in this regard injurious , it as much concerns authority to give it check by severity of laws and punishments , as any the foulest immoralities . temporal punishments then are inflicted upon such persons that are turbulent against prescribed rules of publick worship , upon the same account , as they are against those that offend against all other publick edicts of government : they are both equally intended , to secure the publick peace and interest of the society ; and when either of them are violated , they equally tend to its disturbance : and therefore as mens actings against the civil laws of a common-wealth are obnoxious to the judgment of its governours , for the same reason are all their offences against its ecclesiastical laws liable to the censure of the same authority . so that the matter debated , in its last result , is not so much a question of religion , as of policy ; not so much of what is necessary to faith , as to the quiet and preservation of a common-wealth ; and 't is possible a man may be a good christian , and yet his opinion be intolerable , upon the score of its being inconsistent with the preservation of the publick peace , and the necessary ends of government . for 't is easily imaginable how an honest and well-meaning man may , through meer ignorance , fall into such errours , which though god will pardon , yet governours must punish : his integrity may expiate the crime , but cannot prevent the mischief of his errour . nay so easie is it for men to deserve to be punished for their consciences , that there is no nation in the world , in which ( were government rightly understood and duly managed ) mistakes and abuses of religion would not supply the gallies with vastly greater numbers than villany . chap. vii . of the nature and obligations of scandal , and of the absurdity of pretending it , against the commands of lawful authority . the contents . the leaders of the separation being asham'd of the silliness of the principle , with which they abuse the people , think to shelter themselves , by flying to the pretence of scandal . scandal is any thing that occasions the sin of another , and is not in it self determinately good or evil. all scandal is equally taken , but not equally criminal . men are to govern themselves , in this affair , by their own prudence and discretion . of st. paul's contrary behaviour towards the iews , and gentiles , to avoid their contrary scandal . the reason of the seeming contradiction , in this point , between his epistles to the romans , and galatians . the proper obligations of scandal are extended only to indifferent things . the cases , in which it is concern'd , are not capable of being determined by setled laws and constitutions . how scandalously these men prevaricate with the world in their pretence of scandal , that may excuse their refusal of conformity , but gives no account of their separation . of their scrupling to renounce the covenant , this is no reason to drive them from divine service into conventicles . how shamefully these men juggle with the world , and impose upon their followers . if they would but perswade their proselytes to be of their own minds , it would end all our differences . they first lead the people into the scandal , and then make this the formal reason why they must follow them . if the peoples scruples are groundless , then to comply with them , is to keep them in a sinful disobedience . a further account of their shameful prevarication . the ridiculousness of the peoples pretending it concerning themselves , that they are scandalized . by their avoiding private offences , they run into publick scandals . they scandalize their own weak brethren most of all , by complying with them . old and inveterate scandals are not to be complyed with , but opposed : and such are those of the non-conformists . the commands of authority and the obligations of obedience infinitely outweigh , and utterly evacuate all the pretences of scandal . sect. . though the former principle , viz. that no man may with a safe conscience do any thing in the worship of god , that is not warranted by some precept or precedent in the word of god , be riveted into the peoples minds , as the first and fundamental principle of the puritan separation ; yet their leaders seem to be ashamed of their own folly : and being driven from this , and all their other little holds and shelters , they have at length thought it the safest and the wisest course to flie to the pretence of scandal . this is their fort royal , in which they have at last secured and entrench'd themselves . as for their own parts ( they tell us ) they are not so fond as to believe , that the ceremonies of the church of england are so superstitious , and antichristian , and that themselves might lawfully use them , were it not that there are great numbers of sincere , but weak christians that apprehend them to be sinful ; and for this reason they dare not conform to our ceremonial constitutions , for fear of ensnaring and scandalizing weak consciences ; which is , in the apostles account of it , no less than spiritual murther . and whatever is due to authority , the souls of men are too high a tribute . none can be more ready , than themselves , to submit to all lawful commands ; but here they desire to be excused , when they cannot obey but at the price of souls . 't is a dreadful doom , that our saviour has denounced against those , who offend any of his little ones , i. e. babes and weaklings in christianity : and therefore , though they would not stick to hazard their own lives in obedience to authority , yet nothing can oblige them to be so cruel , and so uncharitable , as to destroy any for whom christ died ; which is certainly done by casting snares and scandals before their weak brethren . this is the last refuge of the leaders of the separation , and therefore i cannot but think my self obliged to examine its strength and reasonableness ; and i doubt not , but to make it appear as vain and frivolous , as all their other cavils , and shuffling pretences . sect. . scandal then is a word of a large and ambiguous signification , and the thing it imports is not determinately either good or evil , but is sometimes innocent , and sometimes criminal , according to the different nature of those things from whence it arises , or of those circumstances wherewith it is attended ; for in the full and proper extent of the word , 't is any thing ( whether good , or evil , or indifferent ) that occasions the fall or sin of another . now if the matter of the scandal , or that which occasions anothers sin , be in it self good and vertuous , this casual event is not sufficient to reflect any charge or disparagement upon it ; and therefore 't is in scripture frequently attributed to the best of things , to the cross of christ , to christ himself , and to the grace of god. if it be a thing in it self criminal , though it be chiefly blameable upon its own account , yet this usually aggravates and enhances the original guilt of the action . but lastly , if it be a thing indifferent , and a matter of christian liberty , then is it either faultless , or chargeable , according to its different cases and circumstances , as christian prudence and discretion shall determine , so various and contingent a thing not being capable to be govern'd by any fix'd and setled measures . some are scandalized out of weakness , and some out of peevishness ; some before due information of their mistake , and some after it ; some because they do not , and some because they will not understand . all which , with infinite other circumstances , men ought to consider in the exercise of their christian liberty , and suitably to guide themselves by the same rules of wisdom and charity , that determine them in all the other affairs of humane life . for the action it self is only the remote occasion , and not the immediate cause of the scandal ; in that , being in its own nature indifferent , and by consequence innocent , it cannot be directly and from it self productive of any criminal effect : and therefore , its being abused and perverted to purposes and opportunities of sin , is purely accidental . and the proper and immediate cause of every mans falling , is something within himself : 't is either folly , or malice , or ignorance , or wilfulness , too little understanding , or too much passion , that betray some men into sin by occasion of other mens actions . so that the schools distinction of scandal into passive or that which is taken , and active or that which is given , is apparently false and impertinent , and is the main thing that has perplexed and intricated all discourses of this article : because scandal , properly so called , is never given , but when it is taken ; as being only an occasion of offence taken by one manfrom the actions of another . now if his taking offence , where it was not given , proceeds from weakness and ignorance , then is his case pitiable , and a good-natur'd man will out of tenderness and charity forbear such things , as he seizes on to abuse to his own destruction : for all the obligations of scandal proceed purely from that extraordinary height of charity and tenderness of good nature , that is so signally recommended in the gospel ; which will oblige us to forbear any action that we may lawfully omit , when we know it will prove an occasion of sin and mischief to some well-meaning , but less knowing christians . but if it proceed from humour , or pride , or wilfulness , or any other vicious principle , then is the man to be treated as a peevish and stubborn person ; and no man is bound to part with his own freedom , because his neighbour is froward and humorous : and if he be resolved to fall , there is no reason i should forego the use of my liberty , because he is resolved to make that his stumbling-block . so that we see all scandal is equally taken , but not equally criminal : in that , some take it only because they are weak , and some because they are peevish ; according to which different cases we are to behave our selves , with a different demeanour in this affair . § . and for this we have variety of examples in the practice of the apostles , whose actions were liable to the opposite scandals of jews and gentiles . if they complyed with the jews in their rigorous observation of the mosaick rites , this was a scandal to the gentiles , by leading them into a false and mischievous opinion of their necessity : if they did not comply , then that proved a scandal to those iews , that were not as yet fully instructed in the right nature , and extent of their christian liberty , and the dissolution of the mosaick law ; and so would be tempted to fall back from that religion , that inclin'd men to a scorn and contempt of the law of moses . now between these two extremes they were forced to walk with great prudence and wariness , inclining sometimes to one , and sometimes to the other ; as they apprehended most beneficial to the ends & interests of christianity . thus though st. paul condescended to the circumcision of timothy , to humour and gratifie the jews , who could not be so suddenly wrought off from the prejudices , and strong impressions of their education , and therefore were for a time indulged to the practice of their ancient rites and customs ; yet , when he was among the gentiles , he would not be perswaded to yield so far to the jewish obstinacy , as to suffer the circumcision of titus , but opposed it with his utmost zeal and vehemence ; because this would in probability have frustrated the success of all his labour in propagating the gospel among forein nations ; if he who had before so vehemently asserted their christian liberty , and instructed them in their freedom from the mosaick law , and particularly , from this ceremony , should now seem inconsistent with himself , by acting directly contrary to his former doctrine , and bringing men into a subjection to the law of moses , after himself had so often declared its being revers'd and superannuated . for what else could be probably expected , than that his gentile proselytes being discouraged , partly by his prevarication , and partly by the weight of that noke , to which they foresaw , or at least suspected , they must submit , should be strongly tempted to an utter apostacy ? and therefore , wisely weighing with himself , that the scandal was less dangerous in angring the jews , than in hazarding the gentiles , he chose rather to leave them to their own peevishness , than to hazard the revolt of these , gal. . , . § . and this is the true reason ( as some learned men have observed ) of this great apostles different deportment , in this particular , towards the churches of rome and galatia ; because in the roman church there lived no small number of natural jews , who , when they were first converted to christianity , were not so well instructed in the abrogation of the mosaick law. the method , whereby the apostles invited them at first to embrace the christian faith , was barely to convince them of its evidence and divine authority ; without taking any notice , whether their old religion were thereby abrogated , or continued : for had they at the first attempt dealt roundly with them in that particular , that had been so far from winning their assent , that it had been absolutely the most effectual way to affright them from the gospel . and from hence it came to pass , that there were dispersed among them so many judaizing christians , who , though they were sufficiently instructed in the positive articles of the christian faith ; yet not being so throughly informed as to the superannuating of those legal observances , they were as firmly wedded to them , as if they had still continued in the jewish religion : therefore does the apostle advise , that these weak and uninstructed converts should be tenderly treated ; and exhorts the more knowing christians , for a while , to comply with their weakness and simplicity ; till time , and better information should wear off their old prejudices , and at length bring them to a better understanding of their own liberty . but then , as for the galatians , when they hapned to fall into the same error , he thought not fit to treat them with the same tenderness and civility : but rather chides and lashes them out of their childish folly ; because ( as st. chrysostome observes ) at their first conversion they had been competently instructed in the extent of their christian liberty , and had already disclaimed all their jewish perswasions ; and therefore , for them to relapse into the errours of iudaism , could not proceed from weakness , and want of instruction , but from lightness and giddiness of mind : a vanity that deserved to be upbraided with as much briskness and vehemence of satyr , as st. paul has us'd in that epistle . and upon this account arose the quarrel between him and st. peter , in that st. peter had not carried himself so prudently in the use of his christian liberty , as he might have done ; their controversie was not about an article of faith , or a prescribed duty of religion , but purely about an occasional and changeable matter of prudence . but to pass by this , and divers other particular cases , to the same purpose , in the writings of st. paul , whose practice in this affair is the best comment upon his doctrine : the result of what i have discoursed from him evidently amounts to these two consequences , ( . ) that the proper obligations of scandal are extended only to matters of an indifferent and arbitrary nature . those things that are absolutely necessary , we are bound to do , whether they offend any man or no ; and those that are absolutely unlawful , we are bound to forbear , upon the score of stronger obligations than those of scandal : and therefore its proper scene must lie in things that are not determinately good or evil . ( . ) that the cases , in which it is concern'd , are not capable of being determin'd by any unalterable laws and constitutions ; and that we have no other rules for the government of our actions in reference to it , but those of common prudence and discretion . and now , from this more general account may we proceed , with more clearness and security , to some more close and particular considerations , that immediately relate to this affair , as 't is pleaded by some men in justification of their present schism . § . first , and here in the first place let me desire them , to consider how manifestly & scandalously they prevaricate with the world , in their management of this apology , in that the pretence is too narrow a covering for their practices . for however it may serve to excuse their refusal of conformity in the exercise of their publick and ministerial function , which they must renounce , though to the ruine of their families , to please the brethren ; yet how will this account for all the other disorders and irregularities of their separations ? what has this to do with their private meetings and conventicles , against the commands of publick authority ? they plead it only to justifie themselves in laying down their ministry , and not to keep them from being present at our assemblies in a private capacity : ( as they sometimes are . ) why therefore should they keep up such an apparent separation , by gathering people into distinct meetings of their own , when they might without any criminal scandal to their brethren , or violence to their own consciences , be constant at our congregations ? when themselves were ( or at least thought they were ) in power , they did not think so slightly of unnecessary separations , but provided against their very appearances and possibilities : why therefore should they now make so light of exposing the church to all the distempers that naturally follow , upon making parties and divisions ? if there were nothing but scandal in the case , they would live quietly and conformably in a private condition , though this might possibly restrain them from doing so in a publick office. and one would think that such nice and tender-natur'd people , that will undo themselves to please their neighbours , should be wonderfully tender of giving needless offence to their governours . and , whatever other pretences they make to excuse their non-conformity , nothing can justifie their separation , but the unlawfulness of being present at our congregations . for what , if they scruple to renounce the covenant ; is this any reason , why they should gather people into conventicles , keep their private meetings in time of publick service , affront the laws and constitutions of the common-wealth , and encourage their followers in a down-right schism and separation ? it would be a pretty way of arguing , to hear one of them plead : i cannot renounce the covenant , therefore i must keep a conventicle ; and yet this is their method of acting . and therefore they can never clear themselves of some odd suspicions , unless they would frankly and openly declare their opinion of our service : if they think it unlawful , then let them own , and profess , and plead it ; if lawful , then let them justifie themselves , in that , when lawful authority requires them , and the people , to keep up a just and lawful communion with the church , yet they should notwithstanding keep up so wide a schism , by gathering people out of publick congregations into private meetings . and could their credulous disciples be but made sensible , how coarsly they are impos'd upon by their leaders , and how lamentably they juggle and dissemble with the world , they would then more abhor them for their hypocrisie , than they now admire them for their saint-like and demure pretences . for if they would perswade them to do what themselves would not scruple in their circumstances , ( i. e. to be of their own mind ) this schism would quickly be ended , and the church setled . the only reason ( say most of them ) why they forsook their ministry was , that they durst not abjure the covenant ; dispense with them for this , and they are conformists . but if that be the only thing they scruple , then , why are they not regular and conformable in all other particulars , against which they can pretend no such exceptions ? and what does renouncing the covenant concern the people ? and therefore how shall that excuse , or justifie them in their separation ? this thing has no relation to the divine service , and therefore , however it may restrain men from something else , 't is no motive to drive them from that . now what can be more apparent , than that these men are resolved to comply with , and encourage , the people in a wicked and rebellious schism ( for so it must be , if it be groundless and unwarrantable ) by herding them into conventicles for their own private ends , and that in spight of authority ? whereas had they any true sense of conscience and ingenuity , they would labor to dispossess the people of their mistakes , and to reconcile them to a fair and candid opinion of the church , when she requires nothing of them , but what they themselves are convinced in conscience , is lawful and innocent . for , if they valued the peace of the church , the commands of authority , and the setlement of the nation before their own selfish ends , instead of keeping up divisions ( as 't is evident they do by their conventicles ) they would be as zealous , as he that is most so , to remove the grounds of schism and faction , and to reunite their party to the church , by perswading them to an orderly and peaceable conformity . which if it be innocent ( as themselves believe it is ) it must , in the present circumstances of affairs , be necessary ; if it be any mans duty to be peaceable in the church , and obedient to lawful authority . sect. . secondly , how came the people to be scandalized ? by whom were they betrayed , and affrighted into their mistakes ? who buzzed their scruples , and jealousies into their heads ? and , who taught them to call our ceremonies , popish , superstitious , and antichristian ? what other inducement have they to dislike the churches constitutions , but meerly the example of their leaders ? their practice is the only foundation of the peoples opinion ; and when their flocks straggle from our churches , 't is only to follow their pastors : they first lead the people into an errour , and then this must be an apology for themselves to follow them . and thus , whilst they dance in a circle , 't is no wonder , if at the same time , their preachers follow their people , and the people follow their preachers . and therefore if the godly ministers , who dare not conform for fear of scandalizing the weak brethren , would but venture to do it , the weak brethren would cease to be scandalized . so that these men first lay the stumbling-block in the peoples way , and then , because it scares silly and timorous souls , this serves for a pretence to startle , & be astonish'd at it themselves , and withal to increase the childish fears of the multitude by their own seeming & counterfeit horror . now with what a shameless brow do these men prevaricate with publick authority ? they have deceived the people into a publick errour , and then will not undeceive them for fear of their displeasure : and when they have possess'd their minds with unworthy scruples , and jealousies against the commands of their superiors , then must this weakness of the people be made the formal excuse of their own disobedience . and by this artifice they prostitute the reverence of all government to the fortuitous humor and peevishness of their own disciples ; and so by making the publick laws submit to the pleasure of those whom they govern , they put it in their own power to enact , or repeal them as they please ; and no law shall have any force to bind the subject without their approbation : because 't is in their own power , when they please , to work prejudices , in the people against it ; and therefore , if their being offended be sufficient to take off their obligation , 't is , or 't is not a law , only as themselves shall think good . and thus they first govern the common people , & then sooth and flatter their pride , by inveigling them into a conceit , that they are govern'd by them , and by this stratagem they govern all . but however , from whomsoever these good people learn'd their idle & imaginary scruples , the offence they have taken against the customs and prescriptions of the church , is either just and reasonable , or it is not : if the former , then they have rational grounds for their dislike & separation ; and if they have , then these men that think themselves bound to comply with them , even against the commands of authority , ought to plead those reasons , and not meerly scandal , to justifie their disobedience ; because they must carry in them an obligation antecedent to that of scandal ; in that they are supposed sufficient to warrant and patronize it ; and therefore 't is not that , but the grounds , on which their dislike is founded , that are to be pleaded in their defence and justification . but if the latter , then is their dislike groundless , and unreasonable : and if so , 't is easie to determine that they ought rather to undeceive them , by discovering their mistake , than to encourage them in their sinful disobedience , ( for so it must be , if it be groundless ) by compliance with them . and by this means they will fairly discharge themselves from all danger of any criminal offence . for however scandal groundlesly taken ( and so it is always , because there is never any reason to be offended at an indifferent thing ) may possibly lay a restraint upon my liberty , till i have informed the person of his error , and disavowed those ill consequences he would draw from my example ; and when i have so done , i have prevented the danger of scandal , which always supposes errour , weakness , or mistake of conscience ; and therefore when the errour is discovered , and the weakness removed , so is the scandal too : and if he shall still pretend to be scandalized , 't is not because he is weak , but peevish ; and if after this i comply with them , and that against the commands of my lawful superiors , i shall disobey authority , only , because my neighbour is unreasonable , i. e. for no reason at all . and this further discovers , how shamelesly these men shuffle and prevaricate with the world ; in that when most of them have declared , in their private discourses , that they are not so fond as to imagine our ceremonies unlawful , or antichristian , and when their grandees and representatives have profess'd to publick authority in solemn conferences , that they scruple not these things upon their own account , but only for fear of giving offence to some well-meaning people that were unhappily possess'd with some odd and groundless jealousies against them . for if so , then why are not these good people , that follow them , better informed ? why do they not instruct them in the truth , and disabuse them out of their false and absurd conceits ? why do they connive at their pride and presumption ? or at least , why do they not more smartly reprove them , for their rashness to censure the actions of their neighbours , to condemn , and revile the wisdom of their superiors , and to scorn the knowledge of their spiritual instructors ? why do they not chide them out of their malepart , peevish , and impatient confidence , and , by convincing them at least of the possibility of their being deceived , reduce them to a more humble and governable temper ? why do they not teach them in plain terms that the establish'd way of worship is lawful , and innocent , and therefore that they ought not to forsake it , to the disturbance of the church , and contempt of authority ? if they would but make it part of their business to undeceive the people , how easily would all their stragling followers return into the communion of the church ? but they dare not let them know their errours , lest they should forfeit both their party , and their reputation : and therefore , instead of that , they rather confirm them in their mistakes , and in their own defence , are forced to perswade them , that they ought to be scandalized . insomuch , that it is not unusual to hear the foolish people pretend it concerning themselves , and to tell you that your action is a scandal to them : by which they mean , either that it leads them into sin , or that it makes them angry . if the former , that is a ridiculous contradiction ; for if they know how the snare and temptation is laid , then they know how to escape it ; my action does not force them into the sin , but only invites them to it , through their own mistake and folly : and therefore if they have discovered , by what mistake they are likely to be betray'd , they know how to provide against the danger : for , if they know their duty in the case , how can they plead scandal , when that supposes ignorance ? and however i behave my self , they know what they have to do themselves : if they do not , how can they say of themselves , that they are scandalized ; when by so saying they confess they are not ? for that implies a knowledge how to do their duty , and avoid the danger . if the latter , i. e. that they are angry , then all their meaning is , that i must part with my liberty , and disobey my superiors to please them ; that their saucy humour must give me law ; that i must be their slave , because they are proud , and insolent ; and that they must gain a power over me , because they are forward to censure mine actions . § . thirdly , we encounter scandal with scandal , and let the guilt of all be discharged upon that side that occasions the most and the greatest offences : now all the mischief they can pretend to ensue , in the present constitution of affairs , upon their compliance with authority , reaches no farther than the weak brethren of their own party ; whereas by their refractory disobedience they give offence not only to them , but to all , both to the jew , and to the gentile , and to the church of god. and , not to insist upon the advantages they give to atheism and popery , let me only mind them , that if the accidental offence of the judgments of some well-meaning , but less knowing christians , of a private capacity , pass a sufficient obligation upon conscience , to restrain it from any practice in it self lawful ; of how much more force must that scandal be , that is given to publick authority , by denying obedience to its lawful commands , and by consequence infringing its just power in things not forbidden by any divine law ? now if the rites and ceremonies of the church of england were in themselves apparently evil , then their repugnancy to the law of god were sufficient objection both against their practice , and their imposition ; and their scandal to weak and ignorant christians were of small force , in comparison to their intrinsick , and unalterable unlawfulness : but , because this is not pretended in our present case , what a shameful scandal and reproach to religion is it , to neglect the necessary duty of obedience , and subjection to lawful authority , under pretence of complyance with the weak and groundless scruples of some private men ? 't is certainly past dispute , that the reasonable offence of some weaker brethren cannot so strongly oblige our consciences , as the indispensable command of obeying our lawful superiors . and it is a shame to demand , whether the judgment of a lawful magistrate have not more force and power over conscience , than the judgment of every private christian : if not , then may the laws of authority be cancell'd , and controul'd by the folly and ignorance of those that are subject to them ; for meer scandal arises only from the folly and ignorance of the persons offended . for if there be any just and wise occasion of dislike , the action becomes primarily unlawful , not because 't is scandalous , but because 't is antecedently evil ; whereas meer and proper scandal is only concern'd in things in themselves indifferent : so that in this case all the difficulty is , whether is the greater scandal , to do an indifferent thing , when a private christian dislikes it ; or not to do it , when publick authority enjoyns it ? and certainly it can be no controversie , whether it be a fouler reproach to religion , to disobey a christian magistrate in a thing lawful and indifferent , than to offend a private christian. and i may safely appeal to the judgment of all wise and sober men , whether the intolerable waywardness of some nice and squeamish consciences to the commands of just authority , be not a fouler and more notorious scandal to religion , than a modest and humble compliance with them , though in things not so apparently useful and necessary ? and then , as for their own weak brethren , of whom they seem so exceedingly tender , they can no way more scandalize them , than by complying with them : by which they are tempted and betray'd into the greatest and most mischievous enormities ; for thereby they encourage their folly , feed and cherish their ungrounded fancies , confirm them in a false opinion of the unlawfulness of their superiors commands , and so lead them directly into the sins of unwarrantable schism and disobedience . how many feeble and deluded souls are enticed , by the reputation of their example , to violate the commands of authority , and that , when themselves are not convinced of their unlawfulness , and so entangle themselves in a complicated sin , by disobeying their lawful superiors , and that with a doubtful and unsatisfied conscience ? they cannot be ignorant , that the greatest part of their zealous disciples are offended at the laws and constitutions of the church , for no other reason , than because they see their godly ministers to slight them ; and therefore , unless their example be sufficient to rescind the lawful commands of their governors , they give them the most criminal scandal , by inviting them to the most criminal disobedience . so that all circumstances fairly considered , the avoiding of offences will prove the most effectual inducement to conformity : for this would take away the very grounds and foundations of scandal , remove all our differences , prevent much trouble and more sin , cure all our schisms , quarrels , and divisions , banish our mutual jealousies , censures , and animosities , and establish the nation in a firm and lasting peace . in brief , the only cause of all our troubles and disturbances , is , the inflexible perversness of about an hundred proud , ignorant , and seditious preachers ; against whom , if the severity of the laws were particularly levelled , how easie would it be in some competent time to reduce the people to a quiet and peaceable temper , and to make all our present schisms ( that may otherwise prove eternal ) expire with , or before , the present age ? the want , or neglect , of which method , is the only thing , that has given them so much strength , & so long a continuance . § . fourthly , no man is bound to take notice of , or give place to old and inveterate scandals , but rather ought , in defence of his christian liberty , to oppose them with a publick defiance , and to shame those that pretend them out of their confidence . for the only ground of compliance and condescension in these cases , is tenderness and compassion to some mens infirmities ; and as long as i have reason to think this the only cause of their being scandalized , so long am i bound by charity and good nature to condescend to their weaknesses , and no longer : for after they have had a competent time and means of better information , i have reason enough to presume , that 't is not ignorance , that is the gound of their taking offence , but pride or peevishness , or something worse . so that all that is to be done in this case , is to disabuse the weak by rectifying his judgment , removing his scruples , declaring the innocence of my action , clearing it of all sinister suspicions , and protesting against all those abuses , he would put upon the lawful use of my christian liberty : and when i have so done , i have cleared my self from all his ill-natured jealousies and surmises , and discharged all the offices and obligations of charity . and if , after all this , my offended neighbor shall still persevere in his perverse mis-interpretation of my actions , and pretend , that they still gaul and ensnare his tender conscience ; the man is peevish and refractory , and only makes use of this precarious pretence , to justifie his uncharitable censures of my innocent liberty ; and then am i so far from being under any obligation to comply with the peevishness and insolence of his humour , that i am strongly bound to thwart and oppose it . for otherwise i should but betray my christian liberty to the tyranny of his wilful and imperious ignorance , and give superstitious folly the advantage and authority of prescription . for if that prevail in the practice of the world , and i must yield and condescend to it , because 't is stubborn , and obstinate , it must , in process of time , gain the reputation of being the custom and received opinion of the church ; and when it can plead that , then it becomes necessary : inveterate errours are ever sacred and venerable , and what prescription warrants , it always imposes : custom ever did , and ever will rule and preside in the practices of men , because 't is popular ; and being ever attended with a numerous train of followers , it grows proud and confident , and is not ashamed to upbraid free reason with singularity and innovation . so that all i could gain , by an absolute resignation of my own liberty to another mans folly , would be only to give him a plausible pretence to claim a right of command and dominion over me , and to make my self subject to his humour by my own civility . and thus , though the jews were in the beginning of christianity for a time permitted the rites and customs of their nation ; yet afterward when the nature of the christian religion was , or might be , better understood , the church did not think it owed them so much civility : and if the primitive christians had not given check to their stubborn perswasions , they had given them authority ; and , by too long a compliance , would have vouched and abetted their errours , and adopted judaism into christianity ; and circumcision not only might , but of necessity must have been conveyed down to us from age to age , by as firm and uninterrupted a tradition as baptism . and this shews us , how way-ward and unreasonable those men are , who still persevere to object scandal against the churches constitutions , after she has so often protested against this exception by so many solemn declarations . when at first it was pretended , it might perhaps for a while excuse , or alleviate their disobedience ; but after authority has so sufficiently satisfied their scruples , and removed their suspicions , and so amply cleared the innocence of its own intentions , if men will still continue jealous and quarrelsom , they may thank themselves if they smart for their own presumption and folly . and princes have no reason to abridge themselves in the exercise of their lawful power , only , because some of their subjects will not learn to be modest and ingenuous . and if his majesty should think good to condescend so far to these mens peevishness , as to reverse his laws against them out of compliance with them , this would but feed and cherish their insolence , and only encourage them to proceed ( if that be possible ) to more unreasonable demands ; for upon the same reason they insist upon these , they may , when they are granted them , go on to make new remonstrances , i. e. upon no reason at all . and beside , this would but give the countenance of authority to their scruples and superstitious pretences , and leave the church of england under all those calumnies to posterity , with which themselves or their followers labour to charge it , and oblige future ages to admire and celebrate these peevish and seditious persons as the founders of a more godly and thorow reformation . not to mention how much princes have ever gain'd by their concessions to the demands of fanatick zealots , they may easily embolden , but hardly satisfie them ; and if they yield up but one jewel of their imperial diadem to their importunity , 't is not usual for them to rest , till they have gain'd crown and all , and perhaps the head that wears it too ; for there is no end of the madness of unreasonable men . how happy would the world be , if wise men were but wise enough to be instructed by the mistress of fools ? but every age lives as much at all adventure as if it were the first , without any regard to the warnings and experiences of all former ages . sect. . fifthly , the commands of authority , and the obligations of obedience , infinitely outweigh , and utterly evacuate all the pretences of scandal . for the matters wherein scandal is concern'd are only things indifferent ; but nothing that is not antecedently sinful remains so , after the commands of lawful authority are superinduced upon it ; these change things indifferent , as to their nature , into necessary duties , as to their vse ; and therefore place them beyond the reach of the obligations of scandal , that may in many cases extend to the restraint of our liberty , but never to the prejudice and hinderance of our duty ; so that no obedience , how offensive soever , unless it be upon some other account faulty , is capable of being made criminal upon the score of scandal ; the obligations whereof are but accidental and occasional , whereas those of obedience are of a prime , absolute , and eternal necessity . princes are gods deputies , and lieutenants here on earth , he vests them with their power , and by his own law binds us to obey theirs ; and though their decrees pass no direct obligation upon the consciences of men , yet the divine laws directly and immediately bind their consciences to obey them ; and god has annex'd the same penalties to disobedience to their laws , as to his own : so that obedience to all the lawful commands of our superiours is one part of our duty to god , because our obligation to it is tied upon us by his own immediate command : aud therefore if the duty of avoiding scandal , that is of compliance with my neighbours weakness , be sufficient to excuse that of obedience to authority , 't is so too to take off the immediate obligations of god himself : so that when these two , the publick commands of a lawful superiour , and the private offence of an honest neighbour countermand each other , if the latter prevail , then may it forbid what god has made a necessary duty , and oblige us to disobey him out of compliance with the folly and ignorance of men . how few are there of the divine laws more severe and peremptory , than those that command obedience to authority ? and therefore if we may decline this duty only to avoid scandal , why not any ? why not all ? this then is our duty , and must be done ; and as for all its casual and equivocal events , no mans conscience is concern'd to provide against them . and if other men will be offended because i do my duty , that is their fault and not mine ; and better be the occasion of another mans sin , than the author of mine own . no mans folly or ignorance can cancel my obligations to god , or god's vicegerent ; and in all cases where there is any competition between scandal and a command of god , or any other lawful authority , there is no other difficulty to be resolved , than , whether i shall disobey god , or displease my foolish neighbour ? and 't is ( one would think ) past all dispute , that when any thing is positively determin'd as a matter of duty , the obligations to obedience in that particular are not , for that very reason , left to any man's choice and prudence ( as all matters of scandal are ) but it must become in all cases and circumstances whatsoever , a duty of a precise absolute , and indispensable necessity , and certainly god had made but odd provision for the government of the world , if he should allow one subject , for the pleasure of another , to derogate from the authority of lawful superiours , and permit them the liberty to disobey the commands of governours , rather than displease one another : for this must unavoidably end in an utter dissolution of all government , & devolve the supremacy entirely upon every private man , that either has or can pretend to have a weak and a tender conscience . for if scandal to weak and tender consciences be of sufficient force to rescind the obligatory power of the commands of authority , then whoever either has , or can pretend to a weak conscience , gains thereby an absolute sovereignty over all his superiours , and vests himself with a power to dispense with or evacuate their commands . so that in the issue of all , this pretence puts it in the power of any peevish or malevolent person to cancel all the decrees of princes , and make his own humour the rule of all their polity and laws of government , and become superior to his own superiours only by being ignorant or peevish . how is it possible to make authority more cheap and contemptible ( if men would study to weaken and disgrace it ) than by making its commands of less force , than the folly or perverseness of every arrogant mechanick ? and what can be more destructive of all manner of government than to make all the rules of order and discipline less sacred , than the whimsies of every phantastick zealot ? in brief , the peace and quiet of honest men is likely to be mighty well secured , when disobedience shall be thought the product of a more exact and tender conscience ; when to pick quarrels with the laws , and make scruple of obeying them shall be made the specifick character of the godly party ; and when giddy and humorous zeal shall not only excuse , but hallow disobedience ; when every one , that has pride enough to fancy himself a child of god , shall have licence to despise authority and do as he list . what an irresistible temptation is this to proud and zealous enthusiasts , to affect being troublesome to government , and disobedient to all the laws of discipline , when it shall pass for the result of a more extraordinary tenderness of conscience ? what encouragement could men have to obey their superiours , when to dispute and dislike their laws shall be thought to proceed from a greater holiness and a more exact integrity ? and what a resistless inducement is this to all proud and phantastick zealots to remonstrate to the wisdom of authority , if thereby they may gain the renown and glory of a more conspicuous godliness ? if men would but consider the natural consequences of this , and the like pretences , they could not but see how fatally and unavoidably they lead to anarchy , and an utter dissolution of all government . which mischief ( as is notoriously apparent from the premisses ) all the world can never prevent , if the scandal of private men may ever dispence with the obligation of publick laws . chap. viii . of the pretence of a tender and unsatisfied conscience ; the absurdity of pleading it in opposition to the commands of publick authority . the contents . this pretence is but an after-game of conscience . 't is a certain and unavoidable dissolution of government . 't is a superannuated pretence , and is become its own confutation . old scruples proceed not from tenderness , but stubborness of conscience . this particularly shewn in their scruple of kneeling at the communion . they affect their scruples out of pride and vain-glory. tenderness of conscience is so far from being the reason of disobedience , that it lays upon us the strongest obligations to obedience . a tender conscience is ever of a yielding and pliable temper . when 't is otherwise , 't is nothing but humour or insolence , and is usually hardy enough not to scruple the greatest villanies . the commands of publick authority abrogate all doubts and scruples , and determine all irresolution of conscience . the matter of all scruples is too small to weigh against the sin and mischief of disobedience . the apostles apology , viz. we ought to obey god rather than men , holds only in matters of great and apparent duty , but not in doubtful and disputable cases . nothing more easie than to raise scruples . no law can escape them , this particularly shewn in our own laws . when two obligations interfere , the greater always cancels the less . hence 't is impossible for any man to be reduced into a necessity of sinning . obedience to publick authority is one of the greatest and most indispensable duties of mankind , because most necessary to their well-being . to act against our own scruples , out of obedience to authority , is an eminent instance of virtue . in cases of a publick concern , men are to be govern'd not by their own private , but by the publick iudgment . in these matters the commands of publick authority are the supreme rules of conscience . there is a vast difference between liberty and authority of conscience . the puritans tenderness of conscience is one of the rankest sort of heresies . wherefore 't is absolutely necessary for authority to command things indifferent . the conclusion of all . sect. . the last refuge for godly disobedience is the pretence of a poubtful , scrupulous , & unsatisfied conscience ; for ( say they ) though we cannot positively condemn the ceremonial constitutions of the church , as things in themselves unlawful , yet unlawful they are to us , whose consciences are not sufficiently satisfied concerning them ; because whatsoever is done with a doubting conscience , i. e. without faith , or a full perswasion of mind , is done against it : according to that clear and unquestionable maxim of st. paul , whatsoever is not of faith , is sin . but this precarious pretence , as well as that of scandal , is but an after-game of conscience ; they first resolved to quarrel our constitutions , and then 't is an easie matter to want satisfaction about them ; and when mens arguments depend upon their wills , 't is in their own power only to repeal them , and all the reason in the world can never cure willful and artificial scruples . however , if the obligation of laws must yield to that of a weak and tender conscience , how impregnably is every man , that has a mind to disobey , arm'd against all the commands of his superiours ? no authority shall be able to govern him , farther than himself pleases , and if he dislike the law , he is sufficiently excused from all obligations to obedience ; and no laws shall ever be able to oblige any man , that either has , or can pretend to a weak conscience : for seeing no man can discern the reality of mens pretensions , 't is all one to the concernments of government , whether the tenderness of conscience , that men plead to excuse their disobedience , be serious or counterfeit : for , whether it be so , or so , 't is directly contrary to all the ends and interests of government . and if it be admitted for a sufficient excuse to disobey , 't is an effectual and incurable dissolution of all the force of laws , and makes them obligatory then only when every man pleases ; and he that will may obey , and he that will not may chuse ; seeing 't is so easie for any man , that has no inclination to the law , to claim the inviolable priviledge of a tender conscience : so that to make proviso's for tender consciences , is to abate the whole law ; seeing it gives every man liberty to exempt himself , and if he dislike the law , he is under no obligation to obey it . but suppose this pretence to be serious without design or disguise , is it fit the laws of the common-wealth should ask leave of every ignorant , and well-meaning man , whether they shall be laws or no ? a weak conscience is the product of a weak understanding ; and he is a very subtil man , that can find the difference between a tender head , and a tender conscience : and therefore if princes must consult their subjects consciences in all their laws , this would make all the wisdom of government submit to the power of folly and ignorance . and when any person pleads weakness or tenderness of conscience against the obligation of any law , his meaning is , that he is not of the same judgment and opinion with his governours ; and 't is wise , and handsom , and becoming the grandeur or authority in all its laws , to comply with the learned apprehensions of every honest and illiterate peasant ; who if he be not satisfied in their determinations , may cancel their obligations as to himself , and if they offer to force this honest man to submission , they invade the sacred and inviolable liberty of a tender conscience . so full of anarchy are all these mens pretences . and therefore governours must look to the publick , and let tender consciences look to themselves . laws must be of an unyielding and inflexible temper , and not such soft and easie things , as to bend to every mans humour , that they ought to command . and unless government be managed by some setled principles , it must for ever remain weak and unfixed : princes must not be diffident in their rules , and maxims of policy ; but as they must set down some to themselves , so they must act up roundly to them . for all changes of the publick laws and methods of policy sadly weaken , if they do not utterly unsettle the common-wealth ; in that prescription is , at least in the practice of the world , the greatest strength and security of government : 't is indeed the fountain of authority , and the thing that vests princes with their prerogatives ; and no power , what right or title soever it may plead , can ever be firmly establish'd , till it can plead the warrant and authority of prescription : and therefore if princes will be resolute ( and if they will govern , so they must be ) they may easily make the most stubborn consciences bend to their commands ; but if they will not , they must submit themselves , and their power , to all the follies and passions of their subjects . for there are no conceits so extravagant , or so pernicious , that may not pass for principles of conscience . in brief , there is nothing so ungovernable as a tender conscience , or so restive and inflexible as folly or wickedness , when hardned with religion : and therefore instead of being complyed with , they must be restrain'd with a more peremptory and unyielding rigour , than naked and unsanctified villany ; else will they quickly discover themselves to be pregnant with greater and more fatal dangers . sect. . this stale pretence comes now too late , and is so ancient , that 't is long since superannuated : old doubts and scruples are like old scandals worn out of date by time and experience : they are the natural products of ignorance , weakness is their parent , and folly their nurse ; and if they improve not into confidence , they never survive their infancy , but of themselves vanish and dissolve into nothing : and therefore this pretence having out-lived it self , is become its own answer and confutation : because men ought not , nay , they cannot remain so long under vncertainties ; and 't is impossible but they should before this time be competently determined , as to the lawfulness or unlawfulness of the things themselves : for if in so long a time they have not been able to discover that sinfulness in them they suspected , that is sufficient evidence of their being innocent ; because their scruples have occasioned them to be so throughly sifted and examined : and if after all that hot and vehement contention , that has been raised about them , it appears not yet wherein they are criminal and chargeable , ( for if it does , then the doubt ceases , and the certainty , not the suspition of sin is to be objected ) that is presumption enough for any modest and sober man to conclude their innocence ; and still to retain the scruple , is folly and peevishness , and then the conscience is not doubtful , but obstinate and peremptory : the man is resolved to cherish his scruple , and persist in his folly ; and if he will not be satisfied , it is not because he is weak and timorous , but because he is stubborn and dis-ingenuous . and then he pretends conscience only to vouch his humour , and his insolence , i. e. he is a villain and an hypocrite ; and is so far from deserving pity , especially from authority , that no offenders can more need or provoke their severity ; in that , such men resolve to tire out their governors by their inflexible stubbornness , and to affront their laws with trifles and contemptuous exceptions . at the first setlement of a church or new religion , then indeed mens old follies , prejudices , and weaknesses , ought to be charitably considered ; and they are not to be forced into new customs and usages , by too much rigor and severity ; but ought to be gently and tenderly treated , till time and better information may wear off their scruples , and little exceptions . and this was the case of the iews in the first ages of christianity , who were at first indulged in their weak and trifling conceits ; because then they might reasonably be presumed to arise from a pitiable ignorance and dissetlement of conscience : but as soon as the abrogation of the mosaick institution was fully declared and acknowledged in the church , they were brought under the common yoke of discipline , and were not permitted to plead their doubts and scruples against publick laws and constitutions . and this too is our present case , men labour to support an old schism by out-worn scruples and jealousies , and will persevere in their doubts , because they are resolved never to be satisfied ; for otherwise it were impossible , that after so much time , and so much satisfaction , they could still remain unresolved . and if whole armies of reason have not been sufficient to chase away all their little and imaginary fears : yet methinks so long time , and so much experience might be sufficient to convince them , that they are but shadows , and illusions of their own melancholy fancies ; for had they been real and substantial things , it is impossible they should ever have escaped the discovery of so long and so severe a scrutiny . but , if nor time , nor reason can disabuse them , it is not their ignorance , but their obstinacy that is invincible . thus v. g. when to kneel at the communion , is in it self an handsom and decent action , in that this sacrament is the most solemn piece of gratitude , or worship in the christian religion , and a peculiar acknowledgment of our vast and unspeakable obligations to our redeemer ; and therefore to be performed with the profoundest reverence and humility : and when these men themselves are not only ready to observe , but also to enjoyn the same posture in their ordinary prayers , and other less solemn expressions of devotion ; and when the power of the church has actually determined and required this reverent posture , to stamp a peculiar sacredness and solemnity upon this duty , no man can possibly now scruple its practice without affected contempt , and wilful disobedience ; because they cannot but be convinced ( unless they are resolved against it ) of the vanity and dis-ingenuity of their old pretence : namely , lest they should be interpreted to give religious worship to the elements , and by lying prostrate before the bread and wine , they should become guilty of idolatry , in giving divine worship to a sensless piece of matter . for when they plead this excuse for their disobedience , they cannot but be conscious to themselves , that by it they do not only despise , but slander and reproach the laws , that they out-face and traduce authority , and would force their governours to believe and confess that they favour what they expresly abhor ; seeing the very same law that enjoyns this ceremony , provides so expresly against this abuse , and declares so industriously , that it is so far from designing any reverence to the creatures themselves , that it abhors it ; but only requires it , as it is used in all other religious addresses to heaven . and , if notwithstanding all this , men will dread it as a piece of idolatry , because ( forsooth ) it has been , or may be abused to that purpose , i say no more , than that if such thin and frivolous scruples may out-weigh the laws , and evacuate our obligations to obedience , there are none in the world that are not as apparently liable to as dis-ingenuous surmises ; and they may as rationally forbear looking up towards heaven in their prayers , lest they should worship the clouds , or the sun , moon , and stars . but the truth of it is , some men study for impertinent scruples , to ensnare themselves , and labour to raise great doubts from little reasons , and cannot be satisfied , because they will not ; they have enslaved themselves to their follies , and boared their ears to their scruples , and are resolved to grow old in a voluntary bondage to trifles and fooleries . now it is necessary for people of this humour to streighten the laws , till they have made them too severe and rigorous to be obeyed , to draw their knot , till it becomes troublesom and uneasie ; to put them upon the wrack , and stretch them beyond , or beside their own intention by rare and extraordinary cases , by harsh and unkind interpretations , and by far-fetch'd and disingenuous suspicions ; and , under the shelter of such precarious pretences as no law can possibly avoid , they refuse the liberty that is given them to obey the laws , only that they may take the licence to disobey them . in brief , the main mystery of all this niceness ( though themselves have not wit enough to observe its first causes ) is , for the most part , nothing but a little pride and vain-glory : it is a glorious thing to suffer for a tender conscience , and therefore it is easie and natural for some people to affect some little scruples against the commands of authority , thereby to make themselves obnoxious to some little penalties ; and then what godly men are they that are so ready to be punished for a good conscience ? how do such men hug and nurse their dear scruple ? all the reason , and all the perswasion in the world shall never be able to wrest it from them . it is their ephod and their teraphim , the only mark of their godliness , and symbol of their religion ; and if you rob them of that , you take away their gods : and what have they more ? sect. . if my conscience be really weak and tender , what can become it more than humble obedience and submission to authority ? weakness of conscience always proceeds in some measure from want of wit ; and therefore to make this the pretence of disobedience , is in effect to say , i will controul the wisdom of my superiours , because i have little or none my self . certainly , where persons have any serious sense of their own ignorance , they can scarce have a stronger obligation to obedience : and they can never be so confident in any action , as when they obey ; because then they have the publick wisdom to warrant them , and their own folly to excuse them : that is , they follow the best guide men are capable of , in their circumstances . and a subject that is conscious of his own weakness , when he resigns up himself to the wisdom of his superiours , in matters doubtful and disputable , is in effect governed by the best and safest dictates of his own conscience ; which , unless it be hardned with pride and insolence , cannot but perswade him , that he ought to presume them more competent judges of the fitness and expediency of publick laws , whose work and office it is to understand them , than himself , who is wholly ignorant of the management and transaction of publick affairs . this is the most common principle of humane life , and all men practise by it in all their concerns , but those of religion . and that is the reason it has ever been debauched with so many follies and frenzies , because silly people will not submit their consciences to any thing but their own giddy imaginations : whereas , if they would but condescend to the same rules of government in matters of religion , as they do in all their other affairs , obedience to authority might be secured without any violence to conscience ; seeing no conscience , that is acted by wise and sober perswasions , will ever be stiff in doubtful and uncertain cases , against the determinations of the publick wisdom : because such men being sensible how unable they are to govern themselves , they know they can never act more safely , than when they are governed by their superiors : and being they cannot pretend to trust confidently enough to their own conduct , how can they proceed upon wiser and more reasonable grounds , than by committing themselves to the publick wisdom ? in which , though possibly they might be misguided , yet they may secure themselves , that , god who values integrity more than subtilty , will pardon their weakness , and reward their meekness and humility . but for a man to plead weakness of conscience for disobedience to government , is just as if a child in minority should reject the advice of his guardians , because he has not wit enough to know , when he is well advised ; or as if a fool should refuse to be governed , because he has not reason enough to discern when he is well managed ; or as if a blind man should not trust to the conduct of a guide , because he is not able to judge when he is misled . humility and condescension are the most proper duties of weakness and ignorance , and meekness , and simplicity the only ornaments of a tender conscience : and one would think that men , whose confidence exceeds not their wit , should be strangely wary of censuring the wisdom of authority . and therefore it is but a very odd pretence to weakness of conscience , when it appears in nothing but being too strong for government ; and that man that pretends to it , does not seriously believe himself , if he presumes he is wise enough to govern his governors : and so does every one , that thinks the perswasions of his own mind of sufficient force to cancel the obligations of their commands . it is an handsom piece of modesty for one , who pretends to weakness of conscience , when his prince requires his obedience to give him counsel , to advise him how to govern the kingdom , to blame and correct the laws , and to tell him how this and the other might be mended . and , what can be more fulsom , than to see men , under pretences of great strictness and severity of conscience , to cherish stubbornness and vanity , and to endure neither laws nor superiours , because they are proud enough to think themselves more holy than their neighbours ? what a malapert and insolent piece of pride is it , for every prating gossip and illiterate mechanick ( that can mark themselves with some distinctive names and characters of godliness ) to scoff and jibe at the wisdom of publick authority , to affront the laws and constitutions of a church , to pity and disdain the lamentable ignorance of learned men , and to libel all sorts of people that are not of their own rendez-vous ( especially their superiors ) with slanders and idle stories ? what strange effects are these of a diffident and timorous conscience ? a conscience that knows it self to be acted by certain and infallible principles , how could it be more head-strong and confident ? and therefore , if we compare these mens practices with their pretences , what can be more evident , than that it is not tenderness of conscience that emboldens them to fall out with all the world , but pride , and vanity , and insolence ? for nothing else could possibly drive them on with so peremptory a sail , against so strong and so united a torrent . for a conscience , that is only weak and tender , is of a yielding and pliable temper , it is soft and innocent modest , and teachable , apt to comply with the commands of its superiours , and easily capable of all impressions tending to peace and charity ; but when it is stubborn and confident in its own apprehensions , then it is not tender , but hardy and humoursom : and , as queasie as it is in reference to its superiours commands , it is usually strong enough to digest rebellion and villany ; and whilst it rises against a poor innocent ceremony , it is scarce ever stirred with schism , faction , and cruelty . now to permit these men their liberty , who mistake insolence for tenderness of conscience , ( than which nothing more easie , or more natural for people , that are both proud and simple ) is to suffer ignorance to ride in triumph , because it is proud and confident ; and to indulge zealous idiots in their folly , because they threaten authority , to be peevish and scrupulous to their laws , and to infest their government with a sullen and cross-grain'd godliness ( an artifice not much unlike the tricks of some froward children ) and therefore such untoward and humoursom saints must be lashed out of their sullenness ( as children are ) into compliance and better manners ; otherwise they will be an eternal annoyance to all government , with the childish and whining pretences of a weak and crasie conscience . in brief , i appeal to all mankind ( that have but any tolerable conception of the nature and design of religion ) whether it be not much more becoming the temper of a christian spirit , to comply with the commands of their superiors , that are not apparently sinful , in order to the peace and setlement of the church , than to disturb its quiet by a stubborn and peremptory adherence to our own doubts and scruples ? for , what is there in christianity of greater importance , than the vertues of meekness , peaceableness , and humility ? and in what can these great duties more discover themselves , than in the offices and civilities of humble obedience ; that contains in it all that is most amiable , and most useful in the christian religion ? 't is modesty , 't is meekness , 't is humility , 't is love , 't is peacebleness , 't is ingenuity ; 't is a duty so pregnant with vertue in it self , and of such absolute necessity to the happiness of mankind , that there is scarce anything can come in competition with it , whose obligation it will not at the first appearance utterly cancel and evacuate , ( as i shall more fully demonstrate in the ensuing propositions . ) in the mean while we see , what is to be done in the case of tender consciences : if they are acted by calm and peaceable principles , they will not desire liberty ; if they are not , they will not deserve it . for , if they are humble and modest , they will chuse to submit to the will of their superiors , rather than , by thwarting them , do what in themselves lies to discompose the publick peace . and therefore if they will rather venture to embroil the common-wealth , and contradict authority , than forego their own peremptory determinations , and make their superiors comply and bend to their confidence ; it is because they are criminally bold and imperious in their own conceits , and are of a temper too stubborn , insolent , and presumptuous to be endured in any society of men . sect. . doubts and scruples are so far from being sufficient warranty of disobedience , that they are outweighed by the obligations of the law : for if i doubt concerning the injustice of my action , i must also of necessity doubt of the injustice of my disobedience ; and unless i am absolutely certain that the law is evil , i am sure disobedience to it is : and therefore i am always as forcibly bound to obey a scrupled law , for fear of the sin of disobedience , as to disobey it , for fear it commands an essential evil : so that a doubting conscience must always at least as much fright us from disobeying , as from obeying any humane law. though indeed , if we would speak properly , the commands of authority perfectly determine , and evacuate all doubtfulness and irresolution of conscience : for , if it before hung in suspence concerning the lawfulness of the action , and unresolved , whether it were good or evil , as not having competent reason to incline to one side rather than to the other ; yet when authority casts its commands into the scale ( if in some mens consciences they weigh any thing ) they cannot but add weight more than enough to determine the judgment , and incline the balance . for if the reasons on both sides were equal before , than thet side that gains this accession has most reason now . so that laws do not force us to obey them with a doubting conscience , but remove our doubts at the same time they require our obedience ; because they destroy the equal probability of the two opinions , and determine the conscience to a confidence of acting , by directing it to follow the safest and most probable perswasion : in that no practice or opinion , that is capable of doubt or uncertainty , can be of equal importance with the prime duties of obedience and humility ; and the matter of all doubts and scruples is ever of too small and inconsiderable a consequence to be laid in the balance against the great and weighty mischiefs of disobedience . if indeed the commands of authority enjoyned any thing absolutely and apparently evil , and against the great and unalterable rules of truth and goodness , in such exigents da veniam imperator would be a fair and civil excuse : but matters of a less importance will not pay the charges of a persecution , it is not worth the while to suffer for little things ; and that man has but the just reward of his own folly , that would suffer martyrdom in the cause of an indifferent ceremony , or for the truth of a metaphysical notion . and the suggestion of optatus to the donatists , who were so forward to cast away their lives in defence of their little schism , was smart and severe . nulli dictum est , nega deum ; nulli dictum est , incende testamentum ; nulli dictum est , aut thus pone , aut basilicas dirue . istae enim res solent martyria generare . matters , wherein the being of religion , and the truth of christianity , were directly concerned , were worth the dying for , and would quit the costs of martyrdom ; but no indifferent rites or ceremonies were of value enough to pay for the lives of men : and the zealots of the pars donati , who were so ambitious to suffer imprisonment , confiscation of goods , banishment , and death it self , out of a pertinacious resolution against some established customs and usages of the church , could never be rewarded in any other heaven , but the paradise of fools . things that are essentially evil , no change or variety of circumstances can make good ; and therefore no commands of any superior can ever warrant or legitimate their practice : but then these are always matters of the greatest and most weighty importance , and of an apparent and palpable obliquity , such as blasphemy , murther , injustice , cruelty , ingratitude , &c. that are so clearly and intrinsically evil , that no end , how good or great soever , can ever carry with it goodness enough to abate or evacuate their malice . but as for all matters , that are not so apparently good or evil , but are capable of doubt and uncertainty , their morality is of so small importance , that it can never stand in competition with the obligations and conveniences of the great duty of obedience . and thus when the apostles were forbidden by the jewish sanhedrim to preach the name of iesus , acts . . they desired to be excused , upon no other account but of an express command from god himself , in a matter of great importance , and apparent necessity . our blessed saviour coming into the world with a commission from its supream governour to make laws , and the holy apostles having an infallible assurance of his divine authority from his great , manifest , and undeniable miracles ( the most certain and unquestionable credentials that heaven can send to the sons of men ) they could not but lie under an indispensable obligation to give assent to his message , and obedience to his commands ; and that out of duty to the supream governour of the universe ; from whose unquestionable laws , no other authority can ever derogate , because it is all of an inferiour nature . but to apply this rule , which the apostles never made use of , but in a case of certain , absolute , and notorious injustice , to matters of a small , doubtful , and uncertain nature , is absolutely inconsistent with the quiet of government , and infinitely distant from the intention of the apostles . their plea was in a case of great , evident , and unquestionable necessity : but what warrant is that for my disobedience , when i only fear , or fancy the law to be unjust ? which , if it were so , is not of moment enough to weigh against the mischiefs and enormities , that follow upon disobedience : and therefore in all doubtful and less considerable cases , that side , on which obedience stands , must ever carry it ; and no man that is either wise or good , will ever trouble his governours , with nice and curious disputes ; the authority of the law stifles all scruples , and trifling objections . and thus where there was no apparent repugnancy to the law of god , we find none more compliant and conformable in all other things than the apostles , freely using any customs of the synagogue or iewish church , that were not expresly cancelled by some divine prohibition . but further , this their apology is as forcible a plea in concerns of civil justice and common honesty , as in matters of religion ; it holds equally in both , in cases of a certain and essential injustice , and fails equally in both , in doubtful and less material cases ; and was as fairly urged by that famous lawyer papinian , who upon this account , when the emperor commanded him to defend and justifie the lawfulness of parricide , chose rather to die , than to patronize so monstrous a villany : here the wickedness was great and palpable . but in matters more doubtful and less material , where the case is nice and curious , and not capable of any great interest , or great reason , there obedience out-weighs and evacuates all doubts , jealousies , and suspicions : and what wise or honest man will offend , or provoke his superiours upon thin pretences , and for little regards ? and if every man , that can raise doubts and scruples , and nice exceptions against a law , shall therefore set himself free from its obligation ; then farewel all peace , and all government . for what more easie to any man , that understands the fundamental grounds and reasons of moral equity , than to pick more material quarrels against the civil laws of any common-wealth , than our adversaries can pretend to against our ecclesiastical constitutions ? and now , shall a philosopher be excused from obedience to the laws of his country , because he thinks himself able to make exceptions to their prudence and convenience , and to prove them not so useful to the publick , nor so agreeable to the fundamental rules of natural justice and equity , as himself could have contrived ? what if i am really perswaded , that i can raise much more considerable objections against littletons tenures , than ever these men have , or shall be able to produce against our ceremonial constitutions ? though it be easie to be mistaken in my conceit , yet whether i am , or am not , it is all one , if i am confident . and now it would be mightily conducive to the interests of justice and publick peace for me , and all others of my fond perswasion in this particular , to make remonstrances to the laws of the land , to petition the king and parliament ; to leave us , at the liberty of our own conscience and discretion , to follow the best light , god has given us , for the setlement of our own estates ; because we think we can do it more exactly according to the laws of natural iustice , than if we are tied up to the positive laws of the land. thus that groundless and arbitrary maxim of the law , that inheritances may lineally descend , but not lineally ascend , whereby the father is made uncapable of being immediate heir to the son , would be thought by a philosopher prejudicial to one of the most equal and most ingenuous laws of nature , viz. the gratitude of children to parents ; which this law seems in a great measure to hinder , by alienating those things from them , whereby we are best able to express it . what if i have been happy in a loving and tender father , that has been strangely solicitous to leave me furnished with all the comforts and conveniences of life , that declined not to forego any share of his own ease and happiness to procure mine , that has spent the greatest part of his care and industry to bless me , according to the proportion of his abilities , with a good fortune , and a good education ; and has , perhaps out of an over-tender solicitude for my welfare , reduc'd himself to great streights and exigences : how monstrous & unnatural must the contrivance of this law appear to me , that , when the bounty of providence has blest me with a fortune answerable to the good old mans desires and endeavours , if i should happen to be cut off before him by an untimely death , all that , whereby i am able to recompence his fatherly tenderness , should in the common and ordinary course of law be conveyed from him to another person ; the stream of whose affections was confined to another channel , and who , being much concerned for his own family , could in all probability be but little concerned for me ? what an unnatural and unjust law is this that designs , as far as it can , to cut off the streams of our natural affections , and disposes of our possessions contrary to the very first tendencies , and obligations of nature ? so easie a thing is it to talk little plausibilities against any laws , whose obligation is positive , and not of a prime and absolute necessity : and yet down-right rebellion it would be , if i , or any man else , should refuse subjection to these and the like laws , upon these , & the like pretences . and thus , we see , is the case all the way equal between laws civil , and laws ecclesiastical . in all matters greatly and notoriously wicked , the nature of the action out-weighs the duty of obedience ; but in all cases less certain and less material , the duty of obedience out-weighs the nature of the action . and this may suffice to shew , from the subject matters of all doubts and scruples , that they are not of consideration great enough to be opposed to the commands of authority . and this leads me from the matter of a scrupulous conscience , to consider its authority : and therefore , sect. . as the objects of a scrupulous conscience are of too mean importance , to weigh against the mischiefs of disobedience ; so are its obligations too weak , to prevail against the commands of publick authority . for when two contradictory obligations happen to encounter , the greater ever cancels the less ; because if all good be eligible , then so are all the degrees of goodness too : and therefore to that side on which the greater good stands , our duty must ever incline ; otherwise we despise all those degrees of goodness , it contains in it above the other . for in all the rules of goodness there is great inequality and variety of degrees , some are prescribed for their own native excellency & usefulness , and others purely for their subserviency to these : now when a greater & a lesser virtue happen to clash , as it frequently falls out in the transaction of humane affairs , there the less always gives place to the greater , because it is good only in order to it ; and therefore where its subordination ceases , there its goodness ceases , and by consequence its obligation . for no subordinate or instrumental dutys are absolutly commanded or commended , but become good or evil by their accidental relations ; their goodness is not intrinsick , but depends upon the goodness of their end , and their being directed to a good end , ( if they are not intrinsically evil ) makes them virtuous ; because their morality is entirely relative and changeable , and so alters its colours of good and evil , by its several aspects and postures to various and different ends : and therefore they never carry any obligation in them , when they interfere with higher & more useful duties . and hence it comes to pass , that it is absolutely impossible for any man to be reduced into a necessity of sinning ; because , though two inferiour and subordinate duties may sometimes happen to be inconsistent with each other or with some duty of an absolute and unalterable goodness ; yet the nature of things is so handsomly contrived , that it is utterly impossible that things should ever happen so crosly , as to make two essential and indispensable duties stand at mutual opposit on : and therefore no man can ever be forc'd to act against one , out of compliance with the other : and if there be any contrariety between a natural and instrumental duty , there the case is plain , that the greater evacuates the less ; if between two instrumental duties , it can scarce so fall out , but that some emergent circumstances shall make one of them the more necessary ; but if they are both equally eligible , there is no difficulty ; and a man may do as he pleases . it is indeed possible for any man , by his own voluntary choice to entangle himself in this sad perplexity ; but there is no culpable error that is unavoidable , and every sinfully erroneous conscience is voluntary and vincible : and if men will not part with their sinful errors , it is not because they cannot , but because they will not avoid them . and if they resolve to abuse themselves , no wonder , if their sin be unavoidable ; but then the necessity is the effect of their own choice : and so all sin is inevitable , when the peremptory determination of the will , has made it necessary . but as for the nature of all the laws of goodness in themselves , they are so wisely contrived , that it is absolutely impossible any circumstances should ever fall out so awkardly , as to make one sin the only way to escape another , or a necessary passage to a necessary duty . now to apply this general rule of conscience to our particular case , there is not any precept in the gospel set down in more positive and unlimited expressions , or urged with more vehement motives and perswasions , than obedience to government ; because there are but few , if any , duties of a weightier and more important necessity than this : and for this reason is it , that god has injoined it with such an absolute and unrestrained severity , thereby to intimate that nothing can restrain the universality of its obligatory power , but evident & unquestionable disobedience to himself . the duty of obedience is the original and fundamental law of humane societies , and the only advantage that distinguishes government from anarchy . this takes away all dissentions , by reducing every mans private will and judgment to the determination of publick authority : whereas , without it , every single person is his own governour , and no man else has any power or command over his actions , i. e. he is out of the state of government , and society . and for this reason is obedience , and condescension to the wisdom of publick authority , one of the most absolute and indispensable duties of mankind , as being so indispensably necessary to the peace and preservation of humane societies . now a conscience , that will not stand to the decrees and determinations of its governors , subverts the very foundations of all civil society , that subsists upon no other principle , but mens submitting their own judgments to the decisions of authority , in order to the publick peace and setlement ; without which there must of necessity be eternal disorders and confusions . and therefore , where the dictates of a private conscience happen to thwart the determinations of the publick laws , they , in that case , lose their binding power ; because , if in that case they should oblige , it would unavoidably involve all societies in perpetual tumults and disorders . whereas the main end of all divine , as well as humane laws , is the prosperity and preservation of humane society : so that where any thing tends to the dissolution of government , and undermining of humane happiness , though in other circumstances it were virtuous , yet in this it becomes criminal , as destroying a thing of greater goodness than it self . and hence , though a doubtful and scrupulous conscience should oblige in all other cases , yet , when its commands run counter to the commands of authority , there its obligatory power immediately ceases ; because to act against it , is useful to vastly more noble and excellent purposes , than to comply with it : in that every man that thwarts and disobeys the laws of the common-wealth , does his part to disturb its publick peace , that is maintained by nothing else but obedience and submission to its laws . now this is manifestly a bigger mischief and inconvenience , than the foregoing of any doubts and scruples can amount to : and therefore , unless authority impose upon me something that carries with it more evil and mischief , than there is convenience in the peace and happiness of the whole society , i am indispensably bound to yield obedience to his commands : and though i scrupulously fear lest the magistrates injunctions should be superstitious , yet , because i am not sure they are so , and because a little irregularity in the external expressions of divine worship carries with it less mischief and enormity , than the disturbance of the peace of kingdoms , i am absolutely obliged to lay aside my doubt , rather than disobey the law ; because to preserve it , naturally tends to vast mischiefs and confusion ; whereas the inconvenience of my acting against it , is but doubtful ; and though it were certain , yet it is small and comparatively inconsiderable . and therefore to act against the inclinations of our own doubts and scruples , is so far from being criminal , that it is an eminent instance of virtue , and implies in it , besides its subserviency to the welfare of mankind , the great duties of modesty , peaceableness , and humility . and as for , what some are forward enough to object , that this is , to do evil , that good may come of it ; it is a vain and frivolous exception , and prevented in what i have already discoursed ; in that that rule is concerned only in things absolutely and essentially evil , whose nature no case can alter , no circumstance can extenuate , and no end can sanctifie : but things that are only subserviently good or evil , derive all their virtue from the greater virtue they wait upon ; and therefore where a meaner , or an instrumental duty stands in competition with an essential virtue , its contrariety destroys its goodness ; and instead of being less virtuous , becomes altogether sinful ; for though it have abstractedly some degrees of goodness , yet when it chances to oppose any duty , that has more , and more excellent degrees , it becomes evil and unreasonable , by as many degrees as that excels it . and one would think this case should be past dispute , as to the matters of our present controversie , that are of so vast a distance and disproportion ; forasmuch as obedience is a virtue of so absolute necessity , and so diffusive usefulness ; whereas the goodness of those little things , they oppose to it , is so small , that it is confessedly scarce discernable ; and their consciences , as nice and curious as they are , not able to determine positively , whether they are good or evil : and therefore , what a prodigious madness is it , to weigh such trifling and contemptible things against the vast mischiefs and inconveniences of disobedience ? the voice of the publick laws cannot but drown the uncertain whispers of a tender conscience ; all its scruples are hushed and silenced by the commands of authority : it dares not whimper , when that forbids ; and the nod of a prince aws it into silence and submission . but if they dare to murmur , and their proud stomachs will swell against the rebukes of their superiors , then there is no remedy but the rod and correction : they must be chastised out of their peevishness , and lashed into obedience . in a word , though religion so highly consults the interests of common-wealths , and is the greatest instrument of the peace & happiness of kingdoms ; yet so monstrously has it been abused by the folly of some , and wickedness of others , that nothing in the world has been the mother of more mischief to government . the main cause of which has been mens not observing the due scale and subordination of duties , and that , in case of competition , the greater always destroys the less : for hence have they opposed the laws , and by consequence the peace of the society , for an opinion , or a ceremony , or a subordinate instrumental duty ; whereas , had they soberly considered the important necessity of their obedience , they would scarce have found any duty of moment enough to weigh against it . for seeing almost all virtues are injoined us in order to the felicity of man , and seeing there is nothing more conducive to it , than that which tends to the publick weal and good of all ; and seeing this is the design , and natural tendency of the publick laws , and our obedience to them ; that had need be hugely , certainly , and absolutely evil , that cancels their obligation , and dispences with our obedience ; and not a form , or a ceremony , or an outward expression , or any other instrumental part of religion . but some menthink it better to be disputative than peaceable ; and that there is more godliness in being captious and talkative , than in being humble and obedient : it is a pleasure to them to be troublesome to authority , they beat about , and search into every little corner , for doubts & exceptions against their commands : and how do they triumph , when they can but start a scruple ? they labour to stumble at atoms , to boggle at straws and shadows ; and cherish their scruples till they become as big as they are unreasonable , and lay so much stress upon them , as to make them out-weigh the greatest and most weighty things of the law. and it is prodigiously strange ( and yet as common too ) to consider how most men , who pretend ( and that perhaps sincerely ) to great tenderness of conscience , and scruple postures and innocent ceremonies , are so hardy as to digest the most wicked and most mischievous villanies : they can dispence with spightfulness , malice , disobedience , schism , and disturbance of the publick peace , and all , to nourish a weak and an impotent scruple ; and in pursuit of any little conceit , they will run themselves into the greatest and most palpable enormities ; and will cherish it , till it weighs down the peace of kingdoms , and fundamental principles of common honesty . find me a man that is obstinately scrupulous , and i will shew you one that is incurably seditious ; and whoever will prefer his scruples before the great duties of obedience , peace , quietness , and humility , cannot avoid being often betrayed into tumults and seditions . but if we will resolve to be tender of our obedience to the great , undoubted , and unalterable commands of the gospel ; that will defend our consciences against the vexation of scruples , and little inadvertencies , protect the publick from all the disturbances of a peevish and wayward godliness , and secure our acceptance with god , without being so punctual and exact in the offerings of mint and cummin . sect. . in cases and disputes of a publick concern , private men are not properly sui iuris , they have no power over their own actions , they are not to be directed by their own judgments , or determined by their own wills ; but by the commands and determinations of the publick conscience . and if there be any sin in the command , he that imposed it , shall answer for it ; and not i , whose whole duty it is to obey : the commands of authority will warrant my obedience , my obedience will hallow , or at least excuse my action , and so secure me from sin , if not from error ; because i follow the best guide , and most probable direction i am capable of : and though i may mistake , my integrity shall preserve my innocence . and in all doubtful and disputable cases it is better to erre with authority , than be in the right against it ; not only , because the danger of a little error ( and so it is , if it be disputable ) is out-weighed by the importance of the great duty of obedience , that is more serviceable to the main ends of religion , than a more nice and exact way of acting in opposition to government ; but also , because they are to be supposed the fittest judges of what tends to the publick good , whose business it is to understand publick affairs : and therefore in all such matters , their commands are the supream rule of conscience , as being more competent judges of publick concerns , than mens own private perswasions ; and so must have a superior authority over them , and bind them to yield and submit to their determinations . and , if we take away this condescension of our private consciences to publick authority , we immediately dissolve all government ; for in case of dissention , unless we submit our perswasions to their commands , their commands must submit to our perswasions . and then , let any man tell me , wherein consists the power of princes , when it may be controlled by every subjects opinion ? and what can follow , but perfect disorder and confusion , when every man will be governed by nothing but his own conceits ? and if subjects may be allowed to dispute the prudence and convenience of all laws , government would be but a weak and helpless thing , and princes would command at the will and pleasure of their subjects . and , therefore people are never curious in their exceptions against any publick laws , unless in matters of religion ; and , in that case they study for reasons to disobey , because it gratifies their pride & vanity , to seem more knowing than their governours in that part of wisdom , that they think most valuable . self-conceit and spiritual pride are strange temptations to disobedience ; and , were there not something of this in it , men would find out other commands more liable to their exceptions . for how seldom is it , that any wars are commenced upon just and warrantable grounds ? and yet , how few are they , that take upon them to judge their lawfulness ? all men here think their princes command a sufficient warrant to serve him , and satisfie themselves in this , that , in case the cause prove to be unjust , the fault liesentirely upon him that commands , and not at all on him who has nothing to do but obey . and if it were otherwise , that no subject were bound to take up arms till himself had approved the justness of the cause , commonwealths must be bravely secured , and their safety must lie at the mercy of every humorsome and pragmatical fellow . and yet to this piece of arrogance do men tempt themselves , when they affect to be thought more godly than their neighbors . it is a gallant thing to understand religion better than their superiors , and to pity their ignorance in the great mysteries of the gospel , and by seeming to compassionate their weakness , to despise their authority . but if princes will suffer themselves to be controul'd by the pride and insolence of these contentious zealots , they do but tempt them to slight both their persons , and their government ; and if they will endure to be checked in their laws spiritual , and government of the church , by every systematical theologue , ( and most , not to say the best , of our adversaries are little better ) they may as well bear , to see themselves affronted in their laws civil , and government of the state by every village-attorney , and solicitor . well then , all men that are in a state of government are bound , in all matters doubtful and disputable , to submit the dictates of private conscience to the determinations of publick authority . nor does this oblige any man to act against the dictates of his own conscience , but only , by altering the case , alters his perswasions , i.e. though every man , considered absolutely , and by himself , be bound to follow his own private judgment ; yet when he is considered as the member of a society , then must be govern'd , then he must of necessity be bound to submit his own private thoughts to publick determinations . and it is the dictate of every mans conscience , that is not turbulent and seditious , that it ought in all things that are not of a great & apparent necessity , whatever its own private judgment of them is , to acquiesce in the determinations of its governors , in order to publick peace and unity . for unless this be done , there can be nothing but eternal disorders and confusions in the church ; in that it is utterly impossible that all men should have the same apprehensions of things , and ( considering the tempers and passions of mankind ) as impossible , that they should not pursue their differences and controversies with too much heat & vehemence : and therefore unless whatever their own judgments and apprehensions be , they are bound in all such cases to acquiesce in the decisions and determinations of the governors of the church , or common-wealth , in order to its peace and setlement , there can be no possible way of avoiding endless squabbles and confusions . and unless this be a fundamental rule & dictate of every mans conscience , that as he is bound in all doubtful cases to follow the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , or the best result of his own private perswasions , where he neither has , nor is obliged to have , any other guide or rule of his actions ; so he is bound to forego them all ( provided his plain and necessary duty be secured ) out of obedience to authority , and in order to the due government of the society ; there never can be any peace or setlement in any church or common-wealth in the world . and every conscience that is not thus perswaded , is upon that account to be reckoned as seditious and unpeaceable , and so to be treated accordingly . sect. . he that with an implicite faith and confidence , resigns up his own reason to any superior on earth in all things , is a fool ; and he is as great a fool , ( to say no worse ) that will do it in nothing : for as all men are immediately subject to god alone , in matters of indispensable duty , ( that are not at all concern'd in our present dispute ) so are they , in all other things , to condescend to the decrees and determinations of their lawful superiors . neither is this , to put men upon that supream folly of renouncing the use and guidance of their own reasons out of obedience to any mans infallibility . for by reason we mean nothing but , the mind of man making use of the wisest and most prudential methods , to guid it self in all its actions ; and therefore it is not confined to any sort of maxims and principles in philosophy , but it extends it self to any knowledge that may be gained by prudence , experience , and observation . and hence right reason , when it is imploy'd about the actions of men , is nothing else but prudence and discretion : now the reason of any wise and sober man will tell him , that it is most prudent , discreet , and reasonable , to forego his own private perswasions in things doubtful and disputable , out of obedience to his lawful superiours ; because , without this the world can never be governed . and supposing mens judgments and understandings to be never so much above the iurisdiction of all humane authority , and that no man can be bound to submit his reason to any thing but the commands of god ; yet every man ows at least so much civility to the will of his prince , and the peace of his country , as to bring himself to a compliance and submission to the publick judgment , rather than to disturb the publick peace , for the gratification of his own fancy and opinion . which is no enslaving of his reason to any mans usurpation over his faith and conscience , but only a bringing it to a modest compliance , in order to the common interests of humane society : and if it be not a duty of subjection , yet it is one of peaceableness ; and if it be not grounded upon our obligations to the authority it self , yet it is most clearly derived from an higher obligation , that all men are under , to advance the welfare of mankind , and more particularly of that society they live in , that is antecedent to those of government , which is instituted only in order to the common good : and therefore , though our duty in such cases could not be deduced from our obligation to any humane authority , yet it clearly arises from that duty of charity we owe to our fellow creatures . and though we are not to submit our vnderstandings to any humane power , yet we are to the first and fundamental laws of charity : which being one of the greatest duties of mankind , it is but reasonable to forego all more private and inferior obligations , when they stand in competition with it . and thus st. paul , notwithstanding he declaimed with so much vehemence against the observation of the judaical rites and ceremonies , never scrupled to use them , as oft as it was serviceable to the advancement of the christian religion , and by consequence the good of mankind . and all i would perswade men to , is only that they would do as much out of duty , as st. paul did out of civility ; that as he complied with the apprehensions of the jews , retaining his own private judgment to himself , for the greater advantage of religion ; so they would , whatever their own perswasions are of some things not clearly and absolutely sinful , comply with the determinations of their governours , when it is conducive to the nobler ends of publick peace and tranquillity : a thing in it self so good and so necessary , that there are very few actions , that it will not render virtuous , whatever they are in themselves , whenever they happen to be useful and instrumental to its attainment . and therefore in all matters ( that are no indispensable duties of religion ) he , that acts cross to the commands of authority , has no sense either of the great ends of order and government , or great duties of humanity , modest , peaceableness , meekness , and civility , i. e. he is a proud and factious person ; and has no other motive so to do , but the pleasure of being peevish and disobedient . in fine , there is a vast difference between liberty , and authority of conscience ; the former consists in the freedom of a mans own judgment , and of this no magistrate can deprive us , in that he cannot tie up any mans understanding from judging of things as himself pleaseth : but as for the latter , that consists in the power over mens outward actions , and this , as far as it concerns all publick affairs , every man does , and of necessity must pass away to the rulers of that society he lives in : because ( though i have said it often enough already , yet too often i cannot say it , in that it is the main key of the controversie , and yet but little , if at all regarded by our adversaries ) the very nature of government consists in nothing else but a power of command over mens actions ; and therefore unless all men grant it away to their governours , they live not under government , but in a state of anarchy : every man will be prince and monarch to himself , and as free from all commands , as if he lived out of all society ; seeing only himself shall have any real dominion over his own actions , and his governours shall not have power to command him any thing , but what himself first thinks fit to do : and i hope i need not to prove , that this is a plain dissolution of all government . so that when men will be the absolute masters of their own actions , it is not the freedom of conscience , but its power and sovereignty , for which they contend ; they will endure none to rule over them but themselves , and force princes to submit their laws to their saucy and imperious humour : and it is this they mean by their pretence to a tender conscience , i. e. a conscience that scruples to be subject to government , that will in spight of all publick laws be entirely at its own liberty , that will not submit it self to any rule but its own private perswasions , that affects to be nice and squeamish against all the commands of its superiours , and loves to censure them upon the lightest and most slender presumptions , and that will not yield up any thing of its own phantastick humour to its princes will , or the churches peace , i. e. in effect , the tenderness of their consciences ( for which , forsooth , they must be born with ) consists in nothing else but their being the greatest and most notorious hereticks . for the rankest sort of heresie is nothing but the product of a peevish and contentious spirit ; and an heretick is one that delights in quarrels and factions ; whence erasmus renders s. pauls 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 sectarum author , a man that loves to be the leader of a party : it is peevishness and obstinacy of will that turns small errors into great heresies . pride and passion , and whatsoever can make an opinion vicious , are its fundamental ingredients , and give it its essential formality . this vice lies not so much in the opinions , as in the tempers of men , it is a stubborn and refractory disposition of mind , or a peremptoriness in a mans own conceptions ; and therefore it is by saint paul reckon'd among the fruits of the flesh , as being a kind of brutish peevishness , that is directly opposed to that lenity and yieldingness of mind , that is one of the choicest fruits of the spirit ; whence he advises not to confute , but to admonish such an one , i. e. that is quarrelsome and boisterous for every trifle , and every fancy , because through pride and perversness he is uncapable of instruction ; and therefore can only be advised , and not disputed into sobriety . or ( to use the phrase of saint paul ) he is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , a fellow that is troublesome and contentious , especially about the external rites and usages of the church . and such a malapert non-conformist he supposes disputing in the church of corinth , that their women ought , contrary to their received custom , to be uncovered at divine service : but he takes him up with this short and peremptory answer , if any man seem to be contentious , we have no such custom , neither the churches of god , i. e. in things neither morally good nor evil ( as few external rites are ) the practice of the church is the warrant of their lawfulness , and reason of their decency ; and that is satisfaction enough to any sober and peaceable mind : and he that shall refractorily persist to controul it , must be treated as a disturber of the peace , i. e. pitied and punished , as are all other turbulent and seditious persons . when mens consciences are so squeamish or so humorsome , as that they will rise against the customs and injunctions of the church they live in , she must scourge them into order , and chastise them , not so much for their fond perswasion , as for their troublesome peevishness . and this use of the churches rods and censures , is so absolutely necessary , that it is the only effectual way to preserve her from factions and contentions ; not only because upon this sort of men softer methods can make no impressions , but also because , if we remove the limits and boundaries of discipline , there will be no end of the follies and frenzies of brain-sick people : and when they are once let loose , who then can set bounds to the wildnesses of godly madness ? for this we have too clear a proof in the frantick practices of our modern sectaries , who , when they had inflamed their little zeal against the ceremonial constitutions of our church , ran themselves into all manner of wild and extravagant gestures : they measured the simplicity of christs worship by its opposition to all the rules of decency ; all institutions of order were unwarrantable inventions and traditions of men ; all custom was superstition , and all discipline was popish and antichristian . novelty , how uncouth and fantastick soever , was their only rule of decency ; and every sect distinguished it self from all others , by some affected and new-fangled singularity . and from hence it is , that it is so absolutely necessary , that governors injoin matters of no great moment , and consequence in themselves , thereby to avoid the evils that would naturally attend upon their being not injoined ; so that , when they are determined , though perhaps they are not of any great use to the commonwealth in themselves , yet they have at least this considerable usefulness , as to prevent many great mischiefs , that would probably follow from their being not determined : and therefore the goodness of all such laws is to be valued , not so much by the nature of the things that the law commands , as by the mischiefs and evil effects , that it prevents or redresses . and thus the main decency of order and uniformity in divine worship lies not so properly in the positive use of the rites themselves , as in the prevention of all the indecencies of confusion ; which could never be avoided , if there were not some peculiar rites positively determined . so that the law we see may be absolutely necessary , when the thing it commands is but meerly indifferent ; because some things necessary cannot be obtained , but by some things indifferent : as in our present case , there is an absolute necessity there should be order and decency in publick worship , but order and decency there cannot be without the determination of some indifferent & particular circumstances ; because , if every man were left to his own fancy and humor , there could be no remedy against eternal follies and confusions : so that it is in general necessary that some circumstances be determined , though perhaps no one particular circumstance can be necessary ; yet when any one is singled out by authority , it gains as absolute a necessity , as if it were so antecedently ; because though the thing it self be indifferent , yet the order and decency of publick worship is not : which yet can never be provided for , but by determining either this or some other ceremony as perfectly indifferent and arbitrary . and now upon the result of these particulars , i leave it first to publick authority to consider , whether it be not a wonderfully wise piece of good nature , to be tender & indulgent to these poor tender consciences ? and then . i leave it to all the world to judge , whether ever any church or nation in the world has been so wofully disturbed upon such slender and frivolous pretences as ours ? and thus have i at length finished what i designed and undertook , i. e. i have proved the absolute necessity of governing mens consciences and perswasions in matters of religion , & the unavoidable dangers of tolerating , or keeping up religious differences ; have shewn , that there is not the least possibility of setling a nation , but by uniformity in religious worship ; that religion may , and must be governed by the same rules , as all other affairs & transactions of humane life ; and that nothing can do it but severe laws , nor they neither , unless severely executed . and so i submit it to the consideration of publick authority , and am but little doubtful of the approbation of all that are friends to peace and government . but whatever the event may prove to others , it is not a little satisfaction that i reap to my self , in reflecting upon that candor and integrity , i have used through the whole discourse : in that , as i have freely and impartially represented the most serious result of mine own thoughts ; so withal have i been not a little solicitous , not to baulk any thing material in the controversie ; have encountred all their most weighty and considerable objections , have prevented all manner of escapes and subterfuges , and have not waved any thing , because it was too hard to be answered ; though some things i have , because too easie . and upon review of the whole , i have confidence ( perhaps it may be boldness ) enough to challenge the reader , if he will but be as ingenuous as he ought , to be as severe as he will ; and in defiance to all enemies of peace and government , of what name or sect soever , to conclude all in the words of pilate to the turbulent iews , what i have written , i have written . finis . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e * vide continuation of the friendly debate , pag. ▪ &c. notes for div a -e socr. l. . praes . notes for div a -e lib. . a discourse concerning liberty of conscience in which are contain'd proposalls, about what liberty in this kind is now politically expedient to be given, and severall reasons to shew how much the peace and welfare of the nation is concern'd therein. by r.t. pett, peter, sir, - . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing p a estc r this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ; : ) a discourse concerning liberty of conscience in which are contain'd proposalls, about what liberty in this kind is now politically expedient to be given, and severall reasons to shew how much the peace and welfare of the nation is concern'd therein. by r.t. pett, peter, sir, - . dury, john, - . [ ], , [ ] p. printed for nathaniel brook, and are to be sold at his shop at the angel in cornhill, london : . r.t. = sir peter pett. author attribution from wing. "a discourse representing the liberty of conscience, that is practised in forreign parts. by n.y." (i.e. john dury) has separate dated title page; register and pagination are continuous. part identified on umi microfilm (early english books, - ) reel as wing ( nd ed.) d . item at reel contains only part of bodleian library copy. reproduction of the original in the bodleian library. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng liberty of conscience -- early works to . dissenters, religious -- early works to . religious tolerance -- england -- early works to . - tcp assigned for keying and markup - spi global keyed and coded from proquest page images - rina kor sampled and proofread - rina kor text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion a discourse concerning liberty of conscience , in which are contain'd proposalls . about what liberty in this kind is now politically expedient to be given , and severall reasons to shew how much the peace and welfare of the nation is concern'd therein . by r. t. london , printed for nathaniel brook , and are to be sold at his shop at the angel in cornhill . . a discourse concerning liberty of conscience , &c. i am not ignorant that it is the fate of those who propound modells concerning affaires of state or religion , to be usually look'd on as knaves or fools , and as such who either do not know the incurable defects of humane nature , or by pretending to cure them , would only mend their own fortunes . leaving therefore the makers of plat-forms about morall things to such censures as attend them , i shall not here in this following discourse of liberty of conscience , so much resemble him that draws the modell of an house , as one that applies an engin to quench one a fire . and indeed the security of the nation is so concerned in the granting of this liberty , that any who shall by the contrary practice pretend to promote that , will most truly deserve the name of a projector . moreover , i know that in nothing more then about liberty of conscience querulous persons have shewn a childishness in their complaints , without telling what the very thing is that troubles them , and how far they would have it removed ; and so complaining for want of liberty of conscience in generall , have been as ridiculous as a plaintiff would be , that brought his action about anothers owing him money in generall , or a judge that accordingly order'd some money in generall to be paid . when therefore any subjects have exprest the due liberty their consciences need , then is a king in a capacity to shew a god-like benignity and power in granting the things they ask , as far as they conduce to his honour and the peoples good . nor is it rationall that this liberty should be granted on other termes : for a king that gives to all men all the liberty of conscience they beg from him this day , will be forced to beg it from them the next . as i shall therefore decline such an offer of the ways of securing liberty to the consciences of the severall parties among us , as might amount to the exactness of a modell , and seem to impose upon the magistrate , and tempt other men into an opposition of those methods whereof they were not the inventors , so shall i likewise avoid the error of those who cry out for want of liberty , before they know their own minds fully in this affaire , or take care that the magistrate shall know them otherwise then by inspiration . nor shall i at all in these papers consider what liberty to the consciences of others religion , but purely what politicall interest prompts us to give . it is , i confess , none of the most renowned principles for nations to preserve a fair entercourse with one another , and with their respective members , because 't is their interest so to do ; but 't is a thing much more shamefull for a people to be so infatuated , as not to see their interest when it is most obvious to them ; as in this case of the due liberty of conscience it so eminently is , that it can be the reall concernment of none but souldiers of fortune to oppose it . 't is pity but those miseries which some mens pedantick incivilities to the consciences of others have formerly overwhelm'd the nation with , should be so instructive to us , as to convince us of the necessity of setting out the true bounds of liberty of conscience , as the egyptians of old by the overflowing of their nile were forc'd upon the study of geometry , that so the certain bounds and proprieties of lands might afterward be retrived . i shall therefore without any more prefatory words addresse my self to the proposalls about the freedom that is now fit to be given to the severall protestant parties , differing in lesser matters of religion among us ; whose perswasions being different from those own'd by the reverend divines of our old hierarchy , do put them in a present necessity of having some liberty granted to them . first then i shall propound , that ( if there be not a coalition of those that are call'd the presbyterians , and the assertors of the former hierarchy among us , into the same form of church-government , and thereby the presbyterians so call'd be put in a capacity to divide the highest preferments of the church with others , ) however no ministers may be devested of their present livings , or be made uncapable of being presented to other , meerly because they have been ordain'd by presbyters without bishops . secondly , that any publick preachers of the independent perswasion , may not meerly because of that discriminating opinion of theirs , be render'd uncapable of being lecturers in any parish where the major part of the parish , and the minister shall desire them so to be . more liberty is not desired in their behalf , because , according to their principles , it is not lawfull for them to take tithes , and to do the usuall offices of a minister in a parish . the reasons why i judge it convenient that the pastors and teachers of independent churches should thus ( if nothing be alledged against them but their particular opinion ) be permitted to preach publickly , are , because as to the doctrinall part of religion , they concur with the . articles of the church of england , and they are generally men of strict lives , and are such as have been bred up in the universities ; and if they have not the liberty allow'd them to preach publickly , it will necessarily occasion their preaching to their churches in private meetings , which may be of worse consequence to the magistrate then their publick preaching can be . and again , their opinions about church-government , though possibly not true , are not unworthy of good and learned men ; for by such they have been own'd , as namely by ames , ainsworth , and cotton of new-england . thirdly , that those of these perswasions that are not ministers , i mean gentlemen and tradesmen , presbyterian or independent , may not for their opinions sake as to church-government be debar'd of any civil employment in the nation they are otherwise capable of . fourthly , that anabaptists may not be punish'd meerly for their opinion of administring baptism as they do , and their meeting to pray and preach , and take the sacrament of the lords supper together . for though those of that perswasion were in germany as so many fire-ships among the states of the empire , it doth not follow that others here must necessarily prove incendiaries in the same manner : 〈◊〉 the acts of reasonable creatures may much more vary in severall places , then lightning and thunder happen to be more hurtfull in some countreys then other , and some plants more or less poysonous in severall places . fifthly , that the quakers may for a while be tolerated , till we have seen what effects their light within them will produce . a present and a speedy punishing so numerous a party would not be prudent , because the persecution of one party would alarme all the others , and make them fear that their turnes would be next . this is a party that none have reason to fear as long-liv'd according to the course of nature ; for it doth not cherish the hopes of its followers by any sensuall pleasures in this world , nor can its principles assure men of any reward in the world to come ; because the quakers having degenerated from the light of the scripture to that within them , they can have no grounded assurance of any good terms in another world. those of them that are idle , and go from town to town , neglecting their callings , may without any injury or provocation to the rest of the parties he compell'd to work . and i am confident that these poor enthusiastick people , by hard labour and diligence in their callings , might be at once curd of their melancholy and errours , and be thus induced no longer to call a bad spleen a good conscience . undoubtedly any enthusiast that had been tired in some mechanicall trade by very hard labour in the day , would find little gusto in reading iacob behmon's works at night . sixthly , that those who professe the belief of a fifth monarchy , that is , of christs reigning personally on the earth a thousand yeares , and draw no consequences from thence about their duty in promoting that fifth kingdom , by being active in dethroning any magistrates , or devesting bishops and ministers of their places , because they are said to be of the fourth , may not for that opinion be liable to any punishment . for as ill uses as this opinion hath been put to in our dayes , it was believed by almost all the fathers of the church before the first nicene councell . and therefore i do so state this sixth proposall , that only those now that believe a millennium , and draw no more consequences of rebellion and sedition from it then its primitive assertors did , may have the benefit of liberty . as for those who by this innocent opinion would occasionally disturb civil societies , it is fit they should be dealt with as enemies of mankind , and as such who would found the fifth monarchy in a colluvies of more vile people then romulus did the fourth , and would multiply confusions and disorders in the world , by destroying propriety , and producing innumerable swarmes of hypocrites ; in so much that if the devil were to reign personally on the earth , he would not fill the world with more prodigious impieties . for 't is likely that he would not take away more mens lives then they , but rather be willing that severall generations of men should still succeed one another ; and that he would account the most provoking indignities that could be offer'd god in the world , were only to be shewn by those men who would advance their temporall designes by religion ; it being a greater affront to a king to be put to servile and ignominious uses in his kingdom , then to be banish'd from it . till any factious assertors of the fifth monarchy can shew gods warrant for their having donations from him of our estates , as the israelites could for their seising on those of the egyptians , we have reason to look on them as the nations exterminated by ioshuah out of their countries did on him , who , as procopius saith in the second book of his vandalics , caus'd pillars to be erected with words on them in the phanician language , which he thus renders , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . i.e. we fly from the face of ioshuah the thief , the son of nun. but without doubt these mens design is not to claim our goods by such a right as gods people , the israelites , ( who yet were weary of the theocracy they liv'd under ) did the egyptians first of all , but as the mammelucs did since , whose government is the true example of theirs who would rule us by a nation within a nation . and indeed those men may be asham'd to ask liberty of conscience , who in their principles proclaim they will never give it ; from whom all the favour such as are not of their opinions can hope is to be kept so well in heart , as to be able to hew their wood and draw their water for them . moreover , their abusing those words of the saints inheriting the earth , or , which is all one , founding dominion in grace , would leave us still in a state of war. for every man pretending to have grace , nothing can decide the controversie but the sword where there is no infallible judge . among the papists there is a pretended one , and so the opinion of giving the ballance of land to the party preponderating in grace , where there is a steady hand to hold the scales , is not among them so mischievous as here it would be . seventhly , that neither the old discipline , nor the ceremonies of the church of england , nor an acknowledgment of the lawfulness or expediency therof be obtruded on any of the fore-mention'd parties ; nor that any censures from ecclesiasticall courts , by fines or excommunication may be extended against them for non-conformity . for though excommunication from a church which a man doth not own as true , or having authority over him ; doth terrifie him no more then predictions of thunder from almanacks , yet it makes that tremendous punishment of the the gospel , that judgement precursory of the last , cease to be formidable . but truly according to the custom of our church , and much more according to the church of scoland , an excommunicate person is some way obnoxious to outward punishments . and as our barbarous custom is for the lord of a mannor to seize upon all the goods of any shipwrack'd persons that were thrown up by the sea on his ground , so in scotland often the goods of those men who fall as wrecks on the shore of the church , accrue to it . and thus accidentally trouble is created to the magistrate about tempering the rigour of the church by his power : as one not many yeares since excommunicated in scotland , procur'd his excommunication to be taken off by a counsell of war ; and so it was revers'd errante gladio , as laid on possibly errante clave . having thus presented the proposalls to be considered , and therein occasionally given some reasons for liberty of conscience , as it concerns some of the respective parties among us ; it remains now that more generall reasons be produced , and such as are comprehensive of the concernments of all or most of the parties differing in lesser matters of religion : to prove how much a due liberty granted to them will conduce to the peace and safety of the nation , and what publick inconveniences will follow from the contrary . the first reason shall be taken from the necessary connexion between civil liberty , and that which is spiritual ; and therefore they that would devest any of their spirituall liberties , do alarm them with just causes of fear about their losing civil liberties by the same hands . for , first , it must necessarily be presumed that such persons intend to be judges how far mens civil and spirituall liberties reach , and what are the frontires of both . nothing we see is more common among the romish priests , then to pick the pockets of the people , in ordine ad spiritualla . and 't is most certain that he who doth impose any thing upon the people under the species of religion , would not leave them a power to judge whether it be in order to it or no. for if they are the judges of it , they will say that any thing in religion which displeaseth them opposeth their civil liberty , and so nothing at all will therein be enjoyned . secondly , those that take away from others their spirituall liberties , shew that they can take away part of their civill at least , or else the whole of them , accordingly as they valued their spirituall liberty . if it be said that mens civil liberties are thought more important then their spirituall , yet it may be replyed , that in the thoughts of very many men their spirituall liberties are as considerable as part of their civill : so that the totall destroyers of spirituall liberty shew that part of the civill is at their mercy . and if they are able to take away one part of mens civill liberties , they are by that means in a better capacity to take away another ; just as he that is able to take away one limb from a mans body , is the more able to take away another , because by the losse of that a man hath the less strength to defend himself against a further assault . but although in some parts of the world men have not the same high esteem for spirituall liberty as for civil , just as the par or proportion of silver to gold in severall countries doth differ , it may be affirm'd that in this nation generally they have . 't is true that broken-fortun'd men do not value civil liberty , nor men of debauch'd consciences spirituall ; but neither of these qualifications hath produced a generall undervaluing of either sort of liberty among us . as to what may be objected concerning some popish countries , as venice , &c. where they have not a proportion of esteem for spirituall liberty equall to their civil ; i answer , that their religion obligeth them to perform a servile obedience to the bishop of rome in things sacred , and they looking on him as infallible , have no reason to prize a liberty of not obeying him : yet even in those places obedience to the roman catholick religion is not maintain'd by the severe discipline of an inquisition . the policy of the french nation is in this respect exactly good , the liberty of the gallican church being so cautiously asserted in order to the liberty of the gallican kingdom , where their courts of parliament in case of appeals do declare void and null the popes bulls and excommunications ; and forbid the execution of them when they are found contrary to the liberty of the french church , and the kings prerogative . nor without cause were the severall european princes jealous of the popes designs to invade their civil liberties , when , as mr. selden observes in his dissertatio ad fletam , innocent the second being very earnest with them to admit the canon law into their territories , they received the civil law , to keep out the canon . in which law the bishops of rome have severall titles , de emptione & venditione , de locato & conducto , and severall other titles that concern temporall affaires between man and man. thirdly , they engage themselves to be in readiness by temporall power to maintain their conquests over mens spiritual liberties : for he that takes away a feather out of a mans hat , is obliged in interest to take away his sword from his side . if it be said that a man may think himself bound in conscience to oppresse people in spiritual things , but not in civil ; i answer , most certainly then his conscience will lead him to put them out of a condition to assert their spiritual liberties so opprest . it is with restraining the freedom of conscience as the denying a mare liberum to neigbouring nations , which any prince that doth must not trust to prescription of long time , or imaginary lines in the heavens whereby the compasse of his dominion of the sea may be determined , but to powerfull fleets . fourthly , they give men just cause to think that they will be willing to invade their civil liberties , whenever their consciences or their interests shall prompt them to it . from what hath been said in this first reason about the connexion of civil and spiritual liberty , and mens concernednesse in the valuation of both , i shall occasionally affirm , that the next best way to liberty of conscience for the preservation of the publick peace of a country , where spirituall liberty is regarded in any high measure by the people , is an inquisition . but he hath much to learn in politicks , who thinks that an inquisition is practicable among us as 't is in spain , where one religion hath had quiet possession in the countrey so many yeares . the second reason to prove that the peace and safety of the nation will be very considerably advanced by the allowance of freedom to mens consciences , shall be this ; as long as there is such a due liberty of conscience granted , 't is hardly possible for any civil wars to happen on the account of religion , which for want of this freedom may . if there are but two parties in a nation that differ from one another in religion , 't is not unlikely but that a civil war may arise on the account of religion , though the one doth tolerate the other ; because either of them that thinks its share in the chief magistrates savour least , may for that reason attempt a forcible suppression of the other : but any such war can hardly be where the parties differing in religion are many ; for they are not likely to know the exact strength of one another , and their severall animosities will keep them from joyning together against any one that doth not invade their liberty in generall . nothing but extreme necessity can bring them to meet amicably and consult together . for the nearer they seem to one another in opinion , the sharper their mutuall hatreds are ; just as people of severall countreys that live in the frontires of each , do hate one another with a greater vehemence then those more remotely situated do . besides , 't is probable that if any one of the parties tolerated should go about to make it self uppermost , ( which design only could make it fly out into a civil war ) the rest would immediately joyne to suppresse it . for they are not sure they shall have that from the conquering party , after all the horrors of war , which they already possesse , to wit , a fair liberty . which if it be competently allow'd to the severall parties , seditious persons at home , and the ministers of state to our enemies abroad , will be deprived of their old benefit from our divisions in religion , which they accidentally made use of as a handle to draw us into civil war ; just as by the spanish counsells formerly the kings of france have been excited to persecute the huguenots sometimes , and the huguenots been fed with money and advice to resist their persecutors ; and as in like manner richelieu is thought to have encouraged the last arch-bishop of canterbury to increase his severity toward the puritans , and to have animated the scotch and english puritans to do as they did . i grant that in respect of forreign invasion it is somewhat dangerous for a prince to tolerate any religion in his countrey that his neighbours are of , and those potent , and likely to invade him . for then such an invader would expect assistance from those of his opinion in religion , who would promise to themselves the advantage of having their opinions the paramount state-religion upon the invaders success . and for this reason we are obliged to be wary in the toleration we allow papists . we have no reason to be afraid of the toleration of calvinists , because the united provinces in the low countries are of that perswasion , for they are not a common-wealth of increase by armes but trade . nor would they take our countrey if we should offer it them , for they would not know what to do with it , as their affaires at present are , and likely to be . in this second reason i consider , that as there is hardly a possibility of a civill war arising on the account of religion , if there be a fair liberty of conscience established ; so there is danger in this particular from the severall parties if there be no such liberty . i grant that 't is the principle and practice of some of these parties , and especially those call'd presbyterian ( by far the most considerable of them ) to suffer for religion , rather then to resist meerly for it ; and therefore we have no reason to charge them with taking up of armes purely for religion . but yet i think , had it not been for religions sake , and for the greater freedom of their consciences , they would not formerly have pretended that necessity or lawfulnesse to take up arms on a civil account as they did . for though their right in civil things was , as they pretended , the constituent cause of the war , yet religion was the impulsive , or that which inclined them to make use of the other ; of which though they thought lawfully they could , yet but for this impulsive cause they would not have made use . and truly any man that considers the addictednesse of the english nation to religion in generall , will not wonder at mens being stimulated thereby to do what in civill things they think they lawfully may . of this propension of the english not onely to religion , but vehemence in it , barclay doth well take notice , who saith of them , nec quicquam in numinis cultu modicum possunt ; and afterward speaking how ridiculously narrow in their principles our severall sects were , saith , they thought unos se coelestium rerum participes , exortes caeteros omnes esse . i. e. nor can they in the worship of god do any thing without excesse , they think themselves the only sharers of heavenly things , and all other persons to be no way concern'd in partaking of them . nor is the strong and passionate inclination of this kingdom to religion , a humour bred lately among us since the introduction of protestancy ; for the greatest part of the decretal epistles in the books of the canon-law were sent to the english as rescripts occasioned by their addresses to the pope , for his determination in several matters of religion . besides , it may be attributed much to the efficacy of religion in general among us , that no epidemical vice is charged upon our nation , as upon others . but that which is most important in the confirmation of the tendency that the liberty propounded hath to promote the safety and peace of the nation , is the consideration of the prevalent interest these severall parties have therein , and consequently ability to do harm or good ; which i shall make use of as a third reason of the above-mentioned assertion . now here i shall begin with the sort of divines call'd presbyterian , ( though more truly meriting to be styled those that are for moderate episcopacy ) and shall consider their interest and strength . and first , the whole kingdom of scotland is united in a solemn league with them : nor is the federall union likely to be dissolved between that nation and them , because they have submitted to the form of primitive episcopacy described by the bishop of armagh , their covenant binding them only against that high prelacy formerly in use among us . secondly , the way of their preaching being very practicall , and accompanied with zeal and vehemence , doth leave generally deep impressions on the minds of men , and consequently creates among the people a reverentiall esteem for their persons . and indeed so many preachers as there are of the moderate episcopall or presbyterian way , there are so many orators , whereby they influence the people more then if they were so many postillers . every one of them almost doth , as tully saith , aculeos relinquere in animis audientium . their way of preaching is not whining , like that of the sectaries ; and though far from being in most of them conformable to the rules of rhetorick , yet i count it suitable to oratory , because it doth perswade . 't is beyond dispute , that this way of puritanicall preaching hath insinuated it self much into the affections of many , by that civility and emendation of manners it hath proselyted them into , and so hath obtain'd respect both from them and their relations . nor can it but be supposed that the common sort of men , i mean such as live by trade , whose being either rich or beggers depends much on the honesty of their servants , should like that sort of preachers best , who are most passionate and loud against vice , and the appearances of it . and the impressions of this practicall way of preaching are the more permanent in their hearers , because these preachers do propagate the belief of the morality of the sabbath , and do oblige their hearers to discourse on that day chiefly of religious things , and to pass their time in prayer , and repetition of the sermons then preach'd . thirdly , they are highly esteem'd by a great part of the people for the strictnesse and austority of their lives . and by nothing more then unstain'd lives can ministers attract reverence for their persons and doctrines . how much mens affections cool toward a religion many of the teachers whereof are debauch'd , appeares by that common observation of travellers , that the people who live at a great distance from rome are more superstitious then those who live in rome , where they see so much prophanenesse among the grandees of the church . fourthly , being for the most part of them not much immerst in the studies of school-divinity , and indeed more polite literature , as philology , &c. they are enabled to preach oftner , and have more sermons of practicall divinity to print , then the reverend divines of the old hierarchy ; and by this means to adde to their repute and credit with the people . fifthly , they converse more generally with one another , and with the common people , then the reverend divines that are for the former prelacy do . and indeed men that are resolved students , and habitually bookish , have regrets against conversation , especially that of those men they can gain no knowledg by . nor indeed is the company of illiterate lay-men ordinarily acceptable to any scholars , but such as pursue knowledg in mechanicks . now so great and generall is the conversation of the divines call'd presbyterian with one another , that not one of them can come to live in any countrey , but in a few weeks is known to all the ministers of that party there , whom he meets at lectures , or publick fasts . on the other side , it is usuall for the divines of the former prelatical perswasion , to admit only those to a freedom of converse with them that are in ecclesiastical or civil dignity equal to them . moreover , the divines call'd presbyterian do more then the others converse with their hearers , and by this means have the interest of confessors among lay-people , from whom they hear related the most secret passages of their lives and consciences , and of the spiritual maladies and desertions they languish under . and here it may be observ'd how the non-conforming divines were heretofore necessarily more then the other obliged to be much in the company of their lay-hearers ; for by being so , most of them got those church-preferments they had : their opinions causing them to be put by from fellowships of colledges in the universities , they betook themselves for shelter to the lay-puritans in several parts of the nation , and so compass'd the being lecturers in corporations and market-townes . and hereby they became of more active tempers , saw more of the world , were more harden'd , either for the resisting what troubles they could , and bearing what they could not resist , then others that in quest of knowledg and the highest dignities of the church , had been long in universities accustom'd to private and sedentary lives . sixthly , by their dis-esteem of ceremonies and external pomp in the worship of god , they are the more endear'd to corporations , and the greater part of persons engaged in trade and traffick , who hate ceremonies in generall , that is , forms and set behaviours that are not necessary , as being not at leisure for them , and as they are expenceful , and as contrary to their genius and education . and indeed men that live amidst the continual dispatches of business in a way of trade , do naturally grow into a hatred of what doth unnecessarily take up time . we see therefore in holland , that funerals ( the last solemn offices the dead can have paid them , and of which the observation in less trading countries doth with its ceremonies devoure so much time ) are there to be celebrated before two i' th' afternoon ; and for every houre that a herse is kept in a house after that time , somewhat what is paid to the state. nor can it otherwise be , but that the same persons who nauseate ceremonies in civil things , will loath them likewise in religious : just as a man that hath an antipathy against muskadine in his parlour , cannot love it at the sacrament . the fathers , upon whose writings those that would now recommend ceremonies to the church do build their assertions of them , were such as did live in the southern parts of the world , where ceremonies are more lov'd in civil and religious things , then by us northern people they are . and besides , the people there being of sharper wits then among us they are , the artifices of ceremonies are requisite to raise mists before their understanding faculties , and to detain them from as much knowledg as they can by admiration , lest they should become the less obedient by being the more knowing . the eminency of the southern wits above the northern appeares to us from the constant and just complaints of northern nations , that the southern have still over-reach'd them in treaties , after they had defeated their armies in the field . and what i here observe concerning these nations , is attested by bodin in his fifth book de republicâ : where he shews what his observation of the genius and subtle understandings of southern people was , and how it was fit they should be awed into the doing of things by a solemn and pompous managery of religion . 't is further observable concerning northern nations , that they are more addicted to trade then southern ; which they are necessitated to be , because the things that of their own accord , that is , without industry , grow out of the earth , are fewer among them then southern ; and because they are more populous : and while they are more then the other nations addicted to trade , they must needs be less addicted to ceremonies . the hollanders may serve as an instance to evince the truth of this , who having scarce any native commodities , & being a populous countrey , for their quantity of ground , and being forced to advance trade , can hardly abstain from markets on the lords day , and do account it a piece of devotion to cover their wares in sermon time . much less could they , or indeed any trading countrey , admit so many holy-days as our church of england did abound with . the lutheran religion being profest chiefly in countries that subsist by trade , though it owns an episcopall form of church-government , hath annex'd to it but few ceremonies ; and i think except bowing at the name of iesus , and standing up at the creed , none considerable . nor are there in any church of calvin's perswasion responsalls to be used by the people in their liturgies , as in ours : nor in the lutheran churches , do any but the chatechis'd boys mind them much . and in holland the lutheran church doth admit men to the sacrament without private confession and absolution , which in less trading places it strictly requires . while i am now inquiring into the disposition of trading countries , i shall by the way observe , that the interest which the protestant religion hath in them , is its greatest visible security and defence . for though princes of the popish religion do command a greater quantity of ground then protestant princes , yet they have not an interest in maritime townes and trading places equall to them . and and as the present state of christendom is , he that commands the sea commands the shore , and the dominion of the sea through gods mercy is in protestant hands . but to return from whence i digrest . if we reflect on those that did most love ceremonies heretofore in our nation , we shall find them to have been persons of the greatest rank and quality among us , who did affect ceremonies in civil things ; or of the poorest sort , who did get their daily bread by the charity of the other . the midling sort of men , and especially the substantial trades-men of corporations , did generally disgust them . so natural is it for men to paint god in colours suitable to their own fancies , that i do not wonder at trading persons who hate ceremonies , that they thus think god in respect of this hatred altogether such as themselves . and therefore almighty god designing his worship from the jewish church to be full of ceremonies , and such as were typical of his son , did divert that nation from the utmost promoting of trade . to this end they were not planted , except a few of them by the sea-side , but in in-land places , and thereby were the better enabled to advance shepherdry , and the multiplying of various kinds of cattel in order to their sacrifices . they were forbid to take use money of one another , not that there was any reall evil or injustice in usury , but that it would have drawn them on to the advancement of trade , and consequently have interrupted the course of their solemn rites and ceremonies : religion would then have suffer'd by trade , whereas the contrary thing hath since happen'd from it . for beside those vices that are concomitant of idleness , which trade repels , the increase of navigation must necessarily propagate the knowledg of christian religion , as well as humane arts and sciences . thus , multi pertransibunt , & augebitur scientia . if in opposition to what hath been said about trading persons , being generally disaffected to ceremonies in religion ; any shall urge , that in the popish republicks trade and ceremonies are both us'd : it may be answer d , that the many ceremonies there are rather endured then loved , and that if mens understandings were not there mis-guided by a belief of their being necessary to salvation , the practice of them would quickly be abated ; just as we see the motion of a lock to be alter'd when the hand is removed that held back the spring . let but the protestant religion get ground there , and so consequently the tributes of their time be no more demanded for their present ceremonies , and we shall soon find how unwilling they will be to pay them . i shall now briefly speak of the other parties , as the independents , &c. and take notice of their considerableness , and hopes of bidding fair for an interest in the hearts of any of the people . and here i shall observe , that if these sects had got no ground in the nation , that yet they want not their likelyhoods of doing it ; and that first by reason of the ready inclination of many among us to mutability , in nothing more then their opinions about controverted things in religion . for opinions held by the english are held by islanders ; and therefore bodin in his methodus ad facilem historiarum cognitionem , and fifth chapter of it , doth very judiciously shew how people are to be moderated by different laws , according to their climates and situations , which he confirmes by mentioning the severall vices and vertues of countries remotely distant from one another ; saying , how that ventosa loca ferociores homines & mobiliores reddunt , quieta verò humaniores & constantiores . i. e. countries disturb'd with frequent winds make men more fierce and mutable ; but countries that are free from such , do make men more civil and constant . and secondly , because the protestant religion doth indemnifie us in the court of conscience , for believing in matters of religion according to the dictates of our private judgements , or rather oblige us to it . doubtless , if it be not lawful for every man to be guided by his private judgement in things of religion , t' will be hardly possible to acquit our separation from the romish church from the guilt of schism . the genius of the protestant religion doth make it as naturall to us to weigh and consider any notions , though recommended to us by our ministers , as 't is to tell money after our spiritual fathers , which we shall be as ready to do as after our naturall . nor can the decisions of synods and generall councils terminate our inquiries in religion , or keep single divines from recommending notions de fide . and therefore as any judge is concern'd to be wary how he gives sentence in a cause , or inforceth the execution of it , when there lie appeales from his to severall other judicatories ; so doth it likewise import synods or conventions of divines to be cautious in their deciding matters of faith , since every such cause is to be carryed from their bar to the examination of more then ten thousand chancellours , as many being judges of the cause as there are rational men . it hath been long since observ'd by many , that christian religion hath moderated the extremity of servitude as to civil things in the places where it hath been receiv'd . and certainly it is much more consonant to that religion , and especially that form of it which hath asserted its spirituall freedom from the impositions of others , to allow spiritual liberty to others . nor doth it seem worthy of christ , who hath left us a religion full of mysteries , and not any visible judge of them , to have design'd about those any visible executioners . if any man thinks otherwise let him say so . i might further shew how these sects caresse the vulgar , in giving the power of the keys to the people in their gather'd churches ; and how likely 't is that many busie men , and of good natural parts , who have not learning enough to procure any good church-preferment from the old or modern episcopall men , and it may be any such learned men as have been repuls'd by them as to preferment , will be gathering churches . but this present inquiry concerning the interest the severall sects among us have in the hearts of many , needs no further prosecution . we find too many places swarming with them : and such is the peculiar temper and complexion of most people of these perswasions , and the melancholy of them more fix'd and sharp then that of any other party , that this concurring with religion ( of which i doubt not but very many of them have a true sense ) will incline them to persist in their present practises . of the heighth and setledness of these mens discontents we had experience , in their voluntary removal out of the nation , carrying their estates with them , some to holland , and others to new england ; when the other more sagacious party of non-conformists , since call'd presbyterians , chose to weather out the storm at home , and to get for themselves as good terms as they could . the fourth reason that i shall urge to prove how much the peace and security of the nation will be advanc'd by the liberty propounded , may be taken from the inclinations of orders and degrees of other men among us , and such as are not much engaged in these parties ; who account it their interest to be free from any religious impositions of the clergy , and to have the power of bishops so moderated , as that they may not be able to make any suffer for not being of their opinions in lesser matters of religion . and here i shall observe , first , how the judges of the land and the lawyers generally have been ready to curb the excess of power in any bishops . the bishops judging of ecclesiastical causes according to the canon law , ( a law of which albericus gentilis , that renown'd civilian , saith in the th . chap. of his second book de nuptiis , sed hoc jus brutumque & barbarum sane est , natum in tenebris seculorum spississimis , productum a monacho tenebrione , &c. ) was an occasion of our lawyers contrasts with them . and what may well create suspicions , that the bishops keeping of courts as they did was not according to law , may be had from those words of the arch-bishop of canterbury , in his epistle dedicatory to the king before his speech in the star-chamber . i do humbly in the churches name desire of your majesty , that it may be resolv'd by all the reverend iudges of england , and then publish d by your majesty , that our keeping courts and issuing processe in our own names , and the like exceptions formerly taken , and now renew'd , are not against the law of the realm , &c. and how ready the lawyers have been to check the severity of ecclesiastical courts , their innumerable prohibitions shew . in the dayes of popery the prelates could awe the judges with excommunication , for such crimes as the church call'd so . but how little of terrour the application of that censure hath had since , appears from the frequent denouncing of it against the same man. and therefore that learned lawyer judge ienkins , in the second part of his works , saith , that for opposing the excesses of one of the bishops , he lay under three excommunications . secondly , the substantial body of the gentry heretofore was , and is still likely to be for the moderating the exercise of episcopal power , and for the opposing its extravagance . the oath ex officio , and commuting for penance , and other such kind of things , cannot but be thought troublesome to them . but that which i shall here chiefly take notice of , is , how a considerable part of the gentry of england is grown more inquisitive in matters of religion within these late yeares then formerly . where this inquiring temper is not , no opinion so horrid but may be universally believ'd . thus the turks may be induced to think that there is a devil in the juyce of grapes , and the papists that there may be a god therein . but when men are neither by religion or temper restrain'd from searching into the causes of things , they will not in civility to other mens understandings believe propositions to be true or false . and that which makes me ( beside my own observation ) to conclude that many of the gentry of late are grown more inquisitive in religious things then formerly , and are likely so to continue , is , because they are more then heretofore inquisitive in civil things . as when the polish'd knowledg of philologie had obtain'd a conquest over the insignificant learning of the school-men , no man was thought worthy the name of a scholar but he who understood the greek tongue ; so since the late introduction of reall learning into the world by galilaus , tycho brahe , my lord bacon , gassendus , & des cartes , neither the knowledg of elegant words , or nice speculations , wil yield any man the reputation of being learn'd that is altogether rude in mathematicks ; which as they were formerly counted the black art , and their professors , such as roger bacon , conjurers , so may possibly school-divinity and school-divines hereafter be . having thus asserted the present searching disposition of a great part of our ingenious gentry , it may well be hence inferr'd that liberty of conscience may be of high use to them , and that if any ecclesiasticall persons determine any thing contrary to their reasons , they will not believe them , or , if against their safety , not obey them . i think therefore by the way , it was very politickly done of the consistory of cardinalls to imprison galilaeus for affirming the motion of the earth , since that notion of his might fill the world with several new debates and inquiries , and so ignorance the mother of devotion be destroy'd . to prevent which , effectuall care is taken by the iesuites , as appeares by the instructions given them in the directory of their order , call'd directorium exercit . spirit . ignatii loyolae , part . p. . where there are , regulae aliquae tenendae ut cum orthodoxâ ecclesiâ sentiamus . and the first rule is , vt sublato proprio omni judicio , teneamus semper promptum paratumque animum ad obediendum catholicae & hierarchicae ecclesiae . it followes p. . reg. . ut ecclesiae conformes simus , si quid quod oculis nostris appareat album nigrum illa definiverit , debemus itidem quod nigrum sit pronuntiare . this is in the edition of that book at tholou , anno . and confirm'd by the bull of pope paul the third . in short , he that hath had but any conversation with that ingenious part of the gentry who have concern'd themselves in the consideration of church-government , cannot but take notice of these two assertions being in vogue among them ; which whether true or no 't is not here pertinent to determine . the first , that 't is possible for monarchy to subsist here without that high power our bishops formerly had , and so that maxim , no bishop no king , hath been disbelieved . this maxim seems to them true concerning turky , no mufti no grand signior , because the mufti can with the screen of religion as he pleases hide the ugliness of those actions the grandeur of the turkish empire is supported by . but our kings govern according to law , and so the engin of superstition is not here of use for the amusing people into slavery . i confess , any party of men that wil not own the kings supremacy in ecclesiastical causes as well as civil , is not fit to be allow'd as the state-religion . but that supremacy of the kings in ecclesiastical matters and in civil , is acknowledged by the divines that are for the lord primates form of episcopacy , as much as by any other . a second assertion very much receiv'd among them is , that no particular form of church-government is of divine right . of this opinion my lord bacon shews himself to be expresly in his considerations touching the edification and pacification of the church of england : and so my lord falkland , in one of his printed speeches , where speaking of bishops , he saith , i do not believe them to be jure divino , nay i believe them to be not jure divino , but neither do i believe them to be injuria humana . so that it is no wonder that among our ordinary enquirers after knowledg this notion is believed , which was so by those two incomparably learned persons . and it may seem much more to gratifie the power of princes , then the maxim , no bishop no king can do . the author of the history of the council of trent , makes mention how laymez , generall of the jesuits , spent a whole congregation in proving that bishops are jure pontificio , and not jure divino ; and said , that the power of iurisdiction was given wholly to the bishop of rome , and that none in the church hath any spark of it but from him . 't is there said how the legats were of opinion that the question of the divine right of bishops was set on foot to gratifie the authority of bishops , and that the importance of that might be to inferre that the keys were not given to peter onely , that the council was above the pope , and the bishops equall to him ; they saw that the dignity of cardinals superiour to bishops was quite taken away , and the court brought to nothing ; that the preventions and reservations were remov'd , and the collation of benefices drawn to the bishops . thus we see how apt men are to make use of divine right , as fire , and to count it a good servant , but a bad master . nor are some without their feares , that if bishops were here publickly own'd as by divine right , that the king would quickly lose his power of nominating them , and subjects the benefit of appeals from their courts to the king in chancery . i acknowledg that a moderate episcopacy is generally reputed of church-governments the best : but the believers of the divine right of it are of late years grown very few . for the skirmishes in the presse and pulpit concerning it , between the divines of severall parties , have occasion'd two popular reasons to be brought against it ; which how valid they are , is not my task to determine . the first is this , that is not likely to be of divine positive right ( which is the right here meant ) about which christians equally considerable for strength of parts , both naturall and acquired , and for time spent in that part of controversiall divinity that concerns church-discipline , and withall for holinesse in their lives , do at last disagree . the second reason drawn from the eager disputes of church-men about their severall divine rights is this ; nothing really oppressive of civil societies , or destructive of their welfare , is of divine right : but so these forms of church-government have been by the opposite divines of each perswasion accused to be , and likewise by other persons . it hath been further observ'd by many , that though severall things were once confirm'd in the church by an apostolicall precept or practise , they are like lawes abolish'd by desuetude , and do not now oblige the christian world , according to the vogue of all our church-men : as namely the diaconissae , the anointing the sick with oyle , the peoples saying amen after the ministers prayers , and preaching with the head uncover'd , &c. to conclude the examination then of this particular ; a considerable number of the laity , whose fortunes and parts do keep them from standing up and drawing their swords to maintain other mens creeds in every circumstance of them , having by the contests of the clergy found out ( as they think ) the vanity of all their pretendings to divine right , will not encourage immoderate and high behaviours in any one party of them ; but upon this their imagin'd detection adhere to that form of church-government that shall seem to them most consistent with the nations good ; just as the roman emperours were sometimes chosen in the camp , evulgato ( as tacitus saith ) imperiarcano , principem alibi quam romae fieri posse . thirdly , it is naturall to parliaments to check any power that invades a due liberty of conscience , themselves wanting it as well as those whom they represent . nor can any body of men be well without it , as we see in the late assembly of divines , that party which joyn'd against the independents did want liberty of conscience about no mean points in religion ; some of those presbyterian divines ( as they were call'd ) being of calvins , and others of bishop davenants opinions , concerning election and reprobation . and moreover , the parliament that call'd that synod was in matters of religion much more divided . but i shall chuse to look further back on the nature of our parliaments in reference to religion . it cannot be expected that while popery was prevalent in england , much liberty of conscience should be granted ; the pope being then reputed the vicar of christ in spirituall things , was necessarily to be obey'd therein . and yet notwithstanding the authority he had here , no man suffer'd death for opposing his dictates in religion , till the second of henry the fourth . nor are there wanting lawyers , and those both learned in their profession , and in this case uninteressed , who deny that this statute was ever more then a pretended one , and say that it was never assented to by the commons ; and that whereas in the act it self it is said , praelati & clerus supradicti , ac etiam communitates dicti regni supplicarunt , that those words , communitates dicti regni , are not in the parliament-roll , in which when the law comes to be enacted it runs in this form of words , qui quidem dominus rex ex assensu magnatum , & aliorum procerum ejusdem regni , concessit & statuit , &c. where the commons are not at all named . see mr. bagshaw of the temple his reading on the statute of . edward the iii. call'd , statutum pro clero , p. . but that de facto this statute went currant for law , the cruell effects of it did too clearly shew . yet as high as the popish clergy then was , with whom that usurping king complyed , the commons petition'd the king to take away their temporal possessions , and that the statute made against lollards in the second year of the king might be repeal'd . and by the complaint of the commons , as appeares by the statute of . henry the viii , it was then in part repeal'd . afterward in a parliament held vicesimo octavo of the queen the commons quarrell'd with the excessive power of the clergy , desiring to have it restrain'd both in the conferring of orders , and in their censures and oath ex officio . 't is true , the foundation of the high commission is built upon the statute of the first of queen elizabeth ; but the design of that was chiefly to destroy the interest of the popish clergy then not exterminated . in the reigns of following princes , a party known by the name of puritan had obtain'd a large vogue in parliament , insomuch that that party , and another call'd the patriots ( a sort of men who were zealots for the welfare of the nation , though not for any religion ) being frequently in conjunction , were the over-ballancing party in the house of commons . and in the last parliament on the fifteenth of december , . it was resolv'd , nemine contradicen●e , that the clergy of england convented in any convocation or synod , or otherwise , have no power to make any constitutions , canons or acts whatsoever , in matter of doctrine , or otherwise , to bind the clergy or layety of this land , without the commons consent in parliament ; and that the severall constitutions and canons ecclesiasticall , treated upon by the arch-bishops of canterbury and york , and the rest of the bishops and clergie of those provinces , and agreed upon by the kings majesties licence , in their severall synods began at london and york , . do not bind the clergy or laiety of this land , or either of them . which vote of that house may seem to be grounded on this consideration , that a legislative power is inseparable from the king and parliament ; and that if a parliament would transmit their interest in the legislative power to any other order of men , they cannot do it , more then a judge can delegate his authority to his clerks , or any be a deputies deputy . i shall onely here further observe , that the lawyers ( whose obligations on the account of interest to moderate the power of bishops i have before spoke of ) are still likely to be a great part of the house of commons , and to have the conduct of parliamentary affaires much in their hands , and to concur with any party against the bishops , if they should invade the due liberty of mens consciences , or endeavour to make themselves formidable in the nation . the last reason i shall urge to prove what advantages will redound to the nation from the allowance of a due liberty of conscience , is , that it will necessarily produce an advancement of our trade and traffick , the hinderance whereof must needs follow from the contrary practice . the largenesse of trade in any countrey is most certainly founded in the populousnesse of it . 't is onely in populous countries that the wages of work-men are cheap , whereby a greater store of manufactures is prepared for exportation . in populous countries onely they fell their own commodities dear , and buy foreign cheap . 't is there that land is worth twice as many yeares purchase as elsewhere . and in such countries onely is the fishing trade carryed on , which none will employ themselves in that can live upon the shore reasonably well ; and which in populous countries enough will not be able to do . this then being laid down as a principle , that the wealth of any nation depends on its populousnesse , i may confidently affirm , that the populousnesse of a countrey doth much depend upon the liberty of conscience that is there granted . the kingdom of spain may here serve for this to be exemplified in , where there are not men enough to manufacture their own wooll , and where there is more black mony , brass or copper coin used then in other nations , notwithstanding all the silver that comes thither from the west-indies . it was the rigour of the inquisition that brought that monarch , who would have been an universall one , to send ambassadours to his high and mighty subjects . but we need not look out of our own countrey for instances of trades suffering together with freedom of conscience : for by reason of the former severity exercised on those that would not conform to the ceremonies imposed , many thousands of people bred up in a way of trade and traffick left the kingdom , going , some of them to america , and others to holland , where our countrey-men did compensate to the hollanders for severall manufactures which they directed us to , when the rage of duke alva's persecution occasion'd their residence among us . and what could more prejudice the trade of our countrey i know not , then the peopleing other countries with our artificers , and the teaching them our arts and manufactures . and it is considerable that the sort of trading men on whom the shock of persecution did seem to light most heavily , was that of those whose trades did lie chiefly in advancing our staple-commodity of wooll , and preparing our old and new draperies for exportation : to which trades the ordinary sort of puritan non-conformists were rather inclined then to ploughing and digging , because in these trades of theirs ; as namely weaving , spinning , dressing , &c. their children might read chapters to them as they were at work , and they might think or speak of religious things , or sing psalmes , and yet pursue their trades . besides , these trades were more suitable to their constitutions , which were generally not so robust as of others ; and to the melancholy of their tempers . now these men being frequently disturb'd by apparitors , and summon'd to ecclesiasticall courts for working on holy-days perhaps , or going on a sunday to some neighbouring parish when they had no sermon in their own , or for some such causes , were so hinder'd in the course of their trades , that they were necessitated to remove out of the kingdom . they could not expect that merchants or other trading persons would imploy them and take their work , unlesse they could bring it in at such a set time that it might be as occasion required exported , and sent to faires and markets abroad at punctuall times likewise ; which merchants are concern'd in taking care of , lest their commodities be undersold . now these puritan traders were not in a capacity to dispatch the sending in of their manufactures to others at the time agreed on , by reason of their frequent citations to , and delays at , the bishops courts . and since other nations have now the way of making cloath , as namely france , holland and flanders , if we do not sell it cheaper then they , we shall hardly have any abroad sold at all . to conclude the examination of this particular affaire ; not any that hath search'd at all into the nature of the trade of this nation , but believes that the best way to advance it would be to call in and invite any protestant strangers to come and live among us ; and to encourage artists of all nations to come and plant themselves here : which cannot be done without the giving them a due liberty of conscience , and if it be our interest to encourage strangers , and give them this liberty , this dealing may much more be expected by our own natives . but , 't is needlesse to insist longer in giving plain reasons for a plain proposition . i shall onely therefore before i now draw this discourse about the due liberty of conscience that is fit to be practised in this nation toward an end , shew that thereby the reverend fathers of the churche , the bishops , will find their inter●st advanc'd in particular , as well as the interest of the nation in generall . if any man shall say that the government of the church by bishops is the most pure and apostolicall , i am firmly of his opinion ; yet as no bishop no king is now no uncontradicted maxim , so is it lesse unquestion'd , that no force in matters of religion , no bishop . but notwithstanding the severity that hath been exercised on mens consciences by former prelats , such is the prudence of some of the present fathers of the church , that they will i believe see it to be as much their interest to give liberty of conscience , as it can be the interest of any men to receive it . and indeed if this were but in a fair manner distributed among the severall sects i have spoken of , they would no more endeavour the destruction of the episcopall clergy , then the iews at rome tolerated do design the ruine of the pope . nay further , these sects having liberty under their government would serve them as a ballance against popular envy . i have often wish'd that our nobility would dispose the education of some of their sonnes in order to ecclesiasticall preferments , and that a great deal of envy might be diverted by the same persons , being lords spirituall and temporall . but it cannot be expected that persons nobly descended should be engaged in holy orders , till they could see the way of administring things in the church to be as much in the affections of the people here , or above danger from their hatred , as in other countries it is , where the nobless are many of them church-men . now then the reverend fathers the bishops , may compasse the affections of the people by liberty of conscience , and security from the danger of their hatred by an inquisition ; but ( as i said before ) that cannot it self be compast here . indeed our ecclesiasticall rulers have reason to steer us cautiously , since they sit at helm in such a ship as hath thrown very many pilots over-board . and it may well become those worthy divines that have been of late releast through gods good providence from the extremity of their sufferings , to be of most calm , quiet and sedate spirits , just as persons taken from the rack do presently fall asleep . the great alteration in the body of the people since these last twenty years , requires that our old ends of promoting the welfare of the church of england , should be attain'd by the conduct of new means . for the greatest part of the old assertors of all the ceremonies of the church are lodged in graves , many of the zealous lovers of them are now in heaven , where calvinists and episcopal men agree ; and the present major part of this land consists of those , to whom the introducing the old church-government will seem an innovation . i grant the inconveniences which we suffer'd for want of church-government in generall have been many , and those which we should have suffer'd from a scotch presbytery would have been more . but yet it must likewise be granted , that the undistinguishing vulgar will be but too ready to endeavour the removall of any church-government which doth at present inconvenience them , without considering that the miseries they formerly felt will thereby recur upon them ; just as a horse will strive to fling any rider that doth at present gall and spur him too much , without considering that the next rider may possibly gall him worse ; or as a man would try to repell the hand of one who held a burning coal to his flesh , though he should tell him that if that coal were removed he would apply a hotter . they therefore that would endeare any form of church-government to the majority of the people , are concern'd to make it largely diffusive of advantage to them . 't is very apparent how many parties among us have been ruin'd by narrowing their interest , and not making it nationall . and god grant that after all our enquiries about church-discipline , the gentry of england be not by any divisions the present clergy may cause , tempted to cry up the divine right of erastianisme , and say no erastian no king ; which opinion doth as much exceed the episcopal in giving power to the king , as the episcopal doth the presbyterian , or that the independent perswasion . it is therefore the true interest of the clergy here so to temper the government of the church , that it may be accommodated to the content and satisfaction of the gentry or other lay-persons , and of its own members . and 't is very irrationall to think that any church-government in a protestant countrey can be so , which doth restrain a large and almost absolute power to the hands of a few . nor is it more prudent for france to own no distinction between a gentry and a nobility , but to allow equal priviledges to such as we reduce to two orders here , that it may effectually curb the insolence of the peasants , then for the whole clergy here to grow into one body or form of government , and all the parts thereof to be influenced with a convenient power , that so it may be in no danger from the enemies of a ministry in generall . nor was there ever any thing propounded as a means to make the clergy of england very considerable , that can be thought comparable to the form of episcopacy described by the bishop of armagh . and therefore i do not wonder that its publickly own'd by the divines formerly call'd presbyterian ( who now deserve a name less odious , and to be call'd the divines that are for moderate episcopacy , as i said before ) but rather that it is not as generally contended for by all their brethren of the church , excepting a few that are actually invested with the highest dignities therein . now if we divide the clergy here into 〈◊〉 parts , not one in three hath these great dignities , or is likely in any time to attain to them . but that which the bishop of armaghs model of episcopacy offers to more then three parts of four , is an accession of power , or a gaining of that authority in ecclesiasticall matters , as namely in ordination and church-censures , which before they had not . and certainly , the grasping of present power must needs to any ingenious men of the clergy seem more delightfull then the tedious expectation of distant preferments , and the servile licking up of any mens spittle , that others hereafter may do so with theirs . by the practice of this modell the spirit of the clergy would be kept from being embased , and the ordinary sort of vicars would be cured of affecting servility , laziness and ignorance . industry , parts , learning , would be likewise thereby encouraged . for the power of the keys being thus given to the bishop and all the presbyters in any precinct or dioces , those men that could offer the best reasons for things , and shew the greatest strength of parts , would be most swaying in ecclesiastical conventions . nor is it likely that the gentry would be aggrieved at the practice of this way of episcopacy , or every church-censure's passing through a consistory of divines . for 't is not probable that in such an assembly there should be a combination to execute any censure on any man , to gratifie the lusts or private piques of another . besides , there is no such way that a divine can use to make himself considerable with the laiety as his being eminent for power in the sphere of his own profession ; just as a mercer that would by any sway influence the company of drapers , must first obtain a large interest in his own company . in short , the clergy by this fair distribution of ecclesiastical power among them will not be in danger of ruine by the discontents of any of its members , or of any of the laiety while liberty of conscience is secured to them , and ceremonies are not imposed . nor is there any way by which the incoveniences of the presbyterian government can again invade us , but by the engrossing of ecclesiasticall power in the hands but of few persons , and by their using rigour and violence . i know 't is ridiculous to imagin that a presbyterian government can under that notion find many to own it now in this kingdom . yet are the non-conformists likely still to increase , as from edward the sixths time to this they have gradually done . and some that are weary of our former presbytery , may yet be willing to return to it , if they find episcopacy afflictive to them ; though thereby they onely shift their pain . for nothing so much as persecution makes men set up , altare contra altare , every man choosing rather to be a sacrificer on his own altar , then a sacrifice upon anothers . if any ecclesiastical persons therefore shall design to gratifie the peace and welfare of the nation without the allowance of a due liberty of conscience , i shall think their onely aime hereby is to confirm the truth of their doctrine and discipline by a miracle . i cannot but judge them too sagacious , to believe that they can convince mens understandings of the truth of any assertions by torturing their bodies . for men by the rage of passion to conduct knowledg into the world , is as unlikely as the lighting of a candle with gun-powder . how ridiculous is it to think that truth got any thing by the writings that pass'd between luther and henry the eight ? there are severall erroneous opinions , that if we wish the world well rid of , we shall find to die away of their own accord , if we do not exasperate the maintainers of them ; just as nature makes us amends for the ugliness of monsters in their being short-lived . yet even in the case of naturall unhandsomenesse , i have seen the vulgar vary from their common rule of judging it , when a deform'd malefactor hath been going to execution . nor do the words of cheaters that die on gibbets want belief among the rabble . and if the common people are alwaies so ready to believe what is affirm'd by infamous persons , because they are dying , we may well suppose they will give credit to the words of such as liv'd demurely when they are to die , because such and such thing were affirm'd by them . i believe that hardly more priests have been cut off by the law then papists thereby made . that faith hath been given to the assertors of popish opinions , because they have been dying , which they could just have drawn from me by raising the dead . nor is it a thing unobserv'd by any lookers into antiquity , that the christian religion hath still got ground in the world , not by persecuting but being persecuted . but that which i cannot without horror observe , is , that the not allowing a due liberty of conscience , hath instead of advancing the cause of truth , propagated atheism in this nation . this doth but too clearly appear from that irreligion many of our gentry have been infected with by the reverend divines of the church of england not having had freedom to worship god in publick according to their consciences . for severall persons of the gentry not being able to hear a liturgy , ( a way of prayer which every church in the christian world but ours then had ) and sermons from such divines as were not puritans , chose rather not to go to church at all then be there present at the worship they disgusted ; and no marvell that thus neglecting gods publick service , they at last grew unconcern'd in any religion . the like temptations to atheism would be incident to many that are not of the gentry , if liberty as has been propounded , should not be given to the non-conformist divines . for though severall of this sort of men would exercise their devotion in private meetings , and some would joyn with such publick worship as was to be had , yet many would hear no sermons at all , as possibly not likeing that which looks like a conventicle , and more disliking the way of praying and preaching us'd by very many divines that adhere to the former episcopacy . now t' were pity that this disease of speculative irreligion should infect the commonalty as well as others , and that by the persecution of ministers , who differed from us in lesser things , we should as it were naile those canons that might be employ'd in battering the atheism of the age , because they are not all of the same length and shape . which atheism i fear hath occasionally been not a little advanced by the disagreements of ministers about the divine right of severall forms of church-government . for things to be believed and done in order to salvation , can have no more then a divine right , and their opinions of discipline have claim'd so much ; and by this means they have made some foolish men apt to think that the trumpet of religion giveth an uncertain sound , and that nothing at all is of any divine right . i account the body politick of the nation to be as well concern'd in the upholding religion as the souls of men ; the majesty whereof would be sufficiently kept up , if the teachers of it did either agree in all points about it , or else in this one thing , that the dissenters in lesser controversies of religion are obliged to allow a mutuall toleration . and indeed when i consider what opinions men call one another hereticks for not agreeing in , it seems to me the same thing , as if after the pope had pronounced virgilius the bishop of saltsburg heretick , for saying there were antipodes , he should have call'd the pope heretick too for saying there were none . these parties that differ so in the circumstantial points of religion are equally antipodes to one another , and alike near heaven , and in the revolution of a few houres they see the same fun , though not the same stars ; i mean , they have the same fundamentall , though not lesse considerable truths . the popish religion among all the different ritualls our fore-fathers used was accounted the same , some worshipping god , secundum usum sarum , and others , secundum usum bangor , &c. why then may not the protestant religion be so esteem'd here among our little varyings ? though possibly some very few divines of all parties here for want of prudence and goodnesse of nature may endeavour the rigorous imposing of things not necessary , that is , such as we may be without , and which all protestant churches but ours are without ; yet will the laiety probably , and i hope a great part of the clergy of severall perswasions be far from concurring with them as abettors of such an odious work as may produce further mischiefes to church and state , meerly to gratifie the blind zeal or unpurged choler of a few . if gods ambassadors have a mind to quarrell about precedency or ceremonies in religious things , pretendding that it is necessary to observe them most strictly , the people are now grown so wise as not to think it necessary for themselves to encounter hazards , to make some of these legats of heaven submit to the punctilio's of others ; just as severall ambassadours from one prince falling out in a strange countrey about ceremonies in civil things , which one of them being of a loftier humour would reduce the rest to practice , would hardly find any of the natives of the place concern'd in their debate , whatever love they bore to their master . finis . a discourse representing the liberty of conscience , that is practised in forreign parts . by n.y. london , printed for nathaniel brook , and are to be sold at his shop at the angel in cornhill , . the liberty of religion , which is in use amongst protestants . t is first inquir'd what liberty the states which profess the protestant religion give to different opinions within their dominions ? to this i shall briefly answer , and begin with the northern climate , going along and relating what i have observed in every different jurisdiction . when i was in sweden , i found the administrators of that kingdom very much inclined to moderation towards the reformed party , for they suffered them not only to have school-masters of their own to teach their children , but also they permitted them to have private meetings in their distinct colonies , wherein they had the free use of holy ordinances in their own way without disturbance : and although the clergy of the nation did not willingly allow this ; yet whiles the king gustavus and his daughter the queen christina ruled , their liberty was not abridged ; but when charles came to the crown by the resignation of christina , the old chancellour oxenstiern , in favour of the clergy , caused the king to take an oath at his coronation , whereby he was obliged not only to restrain all publick exercise different from the lutheran , but also to abridg the reformed party of the liberty which they had formerly enjoyed ; which hath had some operation upon their freedom : but how far they are abridged of it now , i am uncertain . in denmark there is no liberty granted to any that differs in judgment , so far as i have been acquainted with that state , only in holstein , when the remonstrants after the synod of dort , had not that liberty which they desired in holland , they planted themselves in eidersh at fridericksburg , where they and others also obtained the prviledg of the exercise of their profession without control , which is continued unto them still . moreover , in holstein at altena , the high and the low dutch , and the french reformed churches have the liberty of publick meetings in their profession ; who dwelling in hamburg , and not obtaining that liberty within the city , have procured it within a little english mile from the gates thereof . in dantzick , the three professions , viz. reformed , lutherans , and papists , have , or rather had , an equall liberty in the time of keckermannus . the reformed party had the preeminence of the government , and then they did in a friendly manner admit of some lutherans to share with them in it ( for in religious concernments all were alike ; ) but since they have been admitted to partake with them in the government , they have found a way to worm the reformed party out of power , by which means they have abridged them of their ancient priviledges and liberties ; so that before these late troubles they were forced to appeal to the king of poland , who made decrees in favour of the reformed party ; but in these late troubles the waies of redress have been obstructed . and at elbing , when i was there the chief of the magistrates , and the regents of the school also , being of the reformed religion , the liberty was so equal that no party had any perceptible power over the other , but all was carried with that moderation , that no offence was either taken or given whiles i was there : but since ( i fear ) it is fallen out otherwise , a fierce lutheran minister succeeding in the room of him that then was there , who by dividing practises , and distinguishing forms , hath disturbed their peace . in poland there was an absolute freedom for the exercise of all professions , and the venting of all opinions ; the papists , the protestant , calvinists , lutherans , anabaptists , socinians , &c. all had an equal liberty : and because the protestants in former time found that by their divisions , and distance in communion from each other they were much weakned , therefore in the year they agreed at sendo●●ire , in a synod of the three parties , viz. the confession of helvetia , of bohemia , and of ausburg , to unite and make up but one body ▪ to which effect they established afterward at many national synods severall orders , to remove and prevent scandalls and disorderliness from amongst themselves , and to confirm their unity by the means of mutual edification . in transylvania both the reformed and the lutheran profession are equally free , and in nationall synods they meet together , and consult in common , concerning the means of mutual edification ; whereof i have a large proofe in the business of peace and unity , concerning which they have done more then any of the churches in europe , by answering all the doubts which were proposed unto them as cases of conscience to be resolved . in germany heretofore the reformed party did freely exercise their religion under the protection of the princes of their own profession ; but the lutherans did always make it a matter of dispute , whether that liberty did belong unto them yea or no ? yet now the treaty of peace lately concluded at munster and osnabrugge hath decided fully that controversy ; for , by a statute-law it is determined that the reformed party shall have the same right and priviledge of free exercise which lutheranes and papists have ; and this is thus determined by the th article of the instrument of peace . quoniam verò controversiae religionis , &c. now because the controversies of religion , which are in agitation at this time amongst the forenamed protestants , have not been hitherto reconciled , but have been referred to a further endeavour of agreement , so that they still make two parties ; therefore concerning the right of reforming , it is thus agreed between them ; that if any prince , or other lord of the territorie , or patron of any church , shall hereafter change his religion , or obtain , or recover a principality or dominion , either by the right of succession , or by vertue of this present treaty , or by any other title whatsoever , where the publick exercise of religion of the other party is at present in use , it shall be free to him to have his court-chaplains of his own confession about him in the place of his residence , without any burden or prejudice to his subjects ● but it shall not be lawfull for him to change the publick exercise of religion , or the laws or ecclesiasticall constitutions which have been there hitherto in use , or take from these that formerly were there their churches , their schooles , their hospitals , or the revenues , persians and stipends belonging thereunto , or apply them to the men of their own profession ; or obtrude ministers of another confession unto their subjects , under the pretence of a territoriall , episcopal or patronall right , or under any other pretext whatsoever ; or bring about any other hinderance or prejudice , directly or indirectly , to the religion of the other party . and that this agreement may be the more firm , in the case of such a change , it is lawfull for the communalties themselves to present ; or such as have not the right of presentation , they shall have the right to name fit school-masters , and ministers of the churches to be examined by the publick consistory or ministry , if they be of the same religion with the commu●alties , which nominate and present ; or if they be not of the same religion , they shall be examined in the place which the communalties shall chuse ; whom the prince or lord shall afterwards without any denial confirm . this statute-law of the empire is the ground of all that freedome which the reformed , or the lutheran party , can lay claim to , when they fall under magistrates of a different profession . as for the observation of this law , it is found that the reformed magistrate is almost every where more equitable towards lutherans , then these are unto those : for in the palatinate , at heidelberg , and other places ; in hessen , at smalcalden , and at marpurg , and in some places of anhalt ; in all the territories of the elector of brandenburg , and in the principalities of nassaw , where the reformed have the supreme power , the lutherans have their full liberty without interruption ; but where the lutherans have the supreme authority in germanie , i know no places where they permit the free exercise of the reformed profession ; but in the places named heretofore in holstein , at fridericksburg and altena ; and in hamburg the english have their freedome within the city , but none else ; nor doe i know any imperiall city where the magistrate is lutheran , which permits the reformed party to have the liberty of publick profession within their walls : there is one of the lutheran earls of hanaw , who hath given of late years to the reformed party dwelling in strasburg , the liberty to build a church upon his territory , and to have their publick meetings therein : and one of the lutheran marquesses of brandenburg hath done the like a year or two ago to the reformed inhabitants of noimberg . at bremen , where the magistrate is wholly reformed , within the city the lutherans have the possession of the cathedrall church , where they exercise their religious worship in publick ; but there are complaints made of the late king of sweden , that in the territory under his jurisdiction he hath suffered the statute of the empire touching the freedom of religion to be violated , by casting out the reformed ministers , and imposing lutherans upon the reformed professors , depriving them of the liberty which they have enjoyed ever since the first reformation of these places from popery . in the low countries of the united provinces , the lutherans , the remonstrants , and the anabaptists have a freedom to meet in a publick way ; others of all sorts do meet in private : and the difference which is made between the professors of severall parties is chiefly this ; that the reformed party , which doth own the national confession , and are owned to be members of the national congregations , have only the priviledge and preeminence of being admitted to places of trust in the state , from which all others are excluded . and this liberty of religion which the united provinces have yielded and maintained unto all sorts ; hath made that little spot of ground to be the centre of the trade of europe , having onely three sea-ports , the wicling , the mase , and the texel : and these ports are not easie neither , but difficult to be entred . in the cantons of switzerland and geneva there is no different profession publickly tolerated : although in the circumstantial way of the administration of ordinances , and in the particular order of discipline and government , each canton is different from another ; yet they fell not out about their differences , but correspond in a friendly manner in matters of common concernment . in france the protestant churches are to be considered within themselves , for the liberty which they enjoy under their popish magistrate is not under our consideration ; but the liberty which their nationall synod doth give to particular men to protesse different opinions without bleach of unity in the church , is that which is to be observed , and may be a president to teach others moderation ; for in the late controversies between monsieur du moulin and monsieur amyraut concerning predestination , wherein many others were engaged on both sides , although some hears did begin to break forth ; yet the nationall synod hath allayed the distemper , and preserved peace and unity in the churches , notwithstanding the difference of judgment which was found amongst them . the freedome which the particular churches have to depute some of their members from their consistories to the colloques and provinciall synods is the means to preserve their unity and peace . in switzerland the freedome which the churches enjoy doth wholly depend upon the constitution of their order , as ratified by the civil magistrate , who in each canton is sovereign ; and upon the correspondency between the churches , which is ordinarily managed by those of zurich towards all the rest : for as the canton of zurich hath the precedency , and direction in all civil matters of common concernment , so hath the antistes and consistory of zurich in matters ecclesiasticall a kind of trust put upon them to communicate to the rest , by way of correspondency , matters to be advised on for mutuall concurrence . in germany there is no such correspondency between the churches , but their freedome , in the exercise of discipline and government depends wholly upon the sanction which the prince and his ecclesiasticall senate or consistory doth make concerning the order and way of administring all things . in the low-countries the freedome of meeting in classes and in synods ; in classes every month , or oftner , if need be , according as the classes are divided ) in synods provinciall every year once ) is the preservation of these churches in unity ; for the six provinces , viz. gelderland , holland , ulrecht , friesland , groning , and overyssell , hold their synods so consecutively , that they can send from each synod deputies to another , to correspond with them , and to communicate matters of deliberation , that there may be no causes of breaches between them ; the province of zeeland hath no setled time of synodicall meeting , but the classes of middelburg upon all emergencies doth give notice to the other classes , of the adjacent islands of matters to be taken into consideration : so that in the low-countries the liberty to meet for the ordering of all things within themselves , which preserves the churches in france ; and the liberty to correspond and to communicate one with another the things which they settle by order , which preserves the churches in switzerland , is more complete then any where else ; and because the deputies , or rather commissioners from the civil magistrate are always present at the provinciall synods , therefore their decrees are more valid , and yet altogether free in matters of spirituall concernment . this is the liberty which i have observed to be in use amongst protestants within themselves , in the exercise of their profession , by publick meetings , by the administration of government within themselves , by classes and synods , and by a correspondency with one another in religious matters . as for the liberty which particular members have in each congregation , and which the congregations have in each classis or colloque , and by what rules that liberty is limited , is a matter of more diffuse consideration , and perhaps of little use for the end for which this information is desired : therefore i shall not inlarge upon that subject . of the liberty of religion in use between protestants & papists . if it be inquired what liberty papists have where protestants bear rule , or papists give to protestants when they have all the power : it may be answered by the consideration of the places where each power is prevalent . on the one side , in sweden and denmark , and in all the territories of the lower and upper saxony , where-ever protestants have the sole power , no papists are permitted to have any publick exercise of their religion ; and on the other side , in austria , bohemia ; moravia , and all the heritable lands of the house of austria , in franconia , bavaria , and the upper palatinat where the papists have the sole power , no protestants are permitted to have the publick exercise of their religion . these whole territories forenamed on each side being entire bodies within themselves , under one head either of the one or the other profession , without the intermixture of different dominions , are uniform in the exercise of their religion respectively different . but the intermediate parts of the german empire are interwoven under severall princes of different religions , and therefore are of a mixt profession : my meaning is not , that the professions and forms of religion's worship are mixed and jumbled together in one ; but that both professions are exercised , some here and some there , in different places . and because the inhabitants of the intermediate territories being mixed , and pretending to have each of them a right to the same places of worship , quarrells and strife did arise amongst them , therefore when they deprived one another of the freedome to exercise their profession , the treaty of peace at munster and osnabrugge did appoint the restitution of places for the publick exercise of religion on both sides , and ordered that all matters of this kind should be settled thenceforward as they were in use heretofore in the year . which order occasioned a deputation from all the states of the empire at francford in the years , . and following , to see that decree and other matters put in execution . now the intermediate territories are the circles of westphalia , of the rhine , of the welterans , of franconia , and of suaben ; containing many principalities and great cities depending immediately upon tht empire ; which being of different professions , and mixed one with another in respect of their territories and jurisdictions , in the time of war none that was prevalent did suffer a different religion to be exercised : but since the instrument of the peace made at munster and osnabrug was published , the liberty of religion is to be regulated universally by the seventh article , and some other articles determining matters between protestants and papists ; and according to this constitution , although some territories which formerly were under protestant princes are now under a popish power , and vice versa , yet the liberty of religion is to be left unto each party as it was used in the year . thus the duke of newburg , and one of the landgraves of hessen , and a prince of nassaw , and some others , are obliged to leave unto the protestants within their dominions the free exercise of their religion which formerly they had . in like manner in some of the imperiall cities , as in francford , ausburg , and others , the papists have their free exercise restored unto them amongst the protestants ; at ausburg also the magistrate is half of the one and half of the other profession ; but in all the other imperiall cities , so far as i remember , the magistrates are wholly protestants , except at collen and heilbron , where they are wholly papists . thus matters of freedome stand in the german empire . in poland , hungaria and transylvania , the protestants and papists have heretofore had a promiscuous liberty ; onely whensoever of later times either of the parties did grow more prevalent in power , they have abridged each other of their liberties : and now at this time the protestants of transylvania have put themselves under the protection of the turke , to maintain the liberty of their conscience , because the jesuits by the power of the emperour , which they can command to bring about their designes , would have forced them to embrace their superstition . in switzerland the protestants and papists when they made their league at first to maintain joyntly their liberties against the house of austria , or any other pretenders to have jurisdiction over them , they agreed mutually upon this also , that if any of the natives living in the cantons of either side should change their religion , ( for then they were perfectly divided and separated upon the interest of religion , and so have continued still , that no papists have any free exercise of religion among protestants , nor protestants among papists ; ) that then they should be permitted respectively to sell their goods , and transport themselves unto the party whose religion they should embrace : but of late the popish canton switz did break this agreement , and would not suffer some of their native inhabitants to partake of this freedome , but finding that some families had changed their religion , they did confiscate their goods ; and taking hold of some of them , by the instigation of the friers and jesuits , they condemned some of them to death , and others to the gallies ; which was the cause of the late war which broke forth amongst them ; and although they cease from open hostility , yet this business is not fully composed . and because there are some places of common jurisdiction , wherein there are inhabitants of both parties , and the cantons of each profession put governors by turns for some years over them , it falls often out that the protestant inhabitants in these jurisdictions are commonly abridged of their liberty by the popish governours ; which gives continuall occasion of complaints and disputes between the cantons , and at last may break forth to some violent rupture , and to a totall suppression either of the one or the other . in france , by vertue of the edict of nantes , the protestants ought to have the full liberty of their religion in the places of their abode , and enjoy all the rights and priviledges which belong to natives ; but since the time of our troubles in england they have been very much abridged thereof in severall places ; yet in oliver the protector his time they got some enlargement , which now since the peace is made with spain doth cease , so that they are under the danger of being persecuted every where , as being expoposed to the fury of the multitude , without any assurance of safety , further then it is an inconveniency to the society of papists themselves with whom they live ; otherwise the jesuits and popish emissaries are restless to stir up their zelots to molest them , and do what they can to extirpate them ; witness that which fell out of late at montauban , at bourdeaux , at dieppe , and and elsewhere . in the vallies of piemont the poor churches there since the peace made have still been molested more or less without intermission ; for besides other matters , that which is their chief concernment , namely the liberty to meet at st. giovanni , to exercise their catechisme , that not only the youth may be instructed , but those of riper years confirmed in the protestant religion , is wholly taken from them . this liberty is in a manner the whole substance or chief part of their publick exercise ; this formerly they have always had , and by this last treaty of peace it hath been confirmed unto them ; nevertheless they are deprived of it , and new matters of quarrell are formed against them for other pretences , and chiefly against their ministers ; for the designe is to fright away their leaders , that being scattered like lost sheep upon the mountains , they may become a prey to the wolves that seek to devour them . in the low-countries both of the united and of the spanish provinces , there is a certain reciprocall liberty for the papists in the dominions of the states , and for the protestants in the dominions of the spaniard ; but the liberty is not equal , for in the united provinces the states allow the papists a certain number of priests to administer unto them the things belonging to their conscience in a private way , which is done by an express concession or condescension ; but in the spanish dominions no such thing is granted unto the protestants who live amongst them , but the ministers who administer holy things unto them privately , do it at their perill ; they have no concession to attend any private meetings , but only they are winked at , and suffered to doe ( what they venture upon ) by way of connivence ; so that the difference is , that the papists in the united provinces have an assurance of freedome which they enjoy , but the protestants in the other provinces have no such freedome assured unto them ; which makes the papists increase and multiply in the dominion of the states , and the protestants diminish in the other provinces : and the effect of this may be , that when some of the papists shall creep into places of power , and finding the protestants divided amongst themselves , and their own party strong enough to make a head with the assistance of neighbour foregin forces , they may make a totall change of government in that common-wealth . finis . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e barclay in the th . book of his euphormio . a relation of the troubles of the three forraign churches in kent, caused by the injunctions of william laud, archbishop of canterbury, anno dom. &c. written by j.b., minister of the word of god. j. b. (john bulteel), d. . this text is an enriched version of the tcp digital transcription a of text r in the english short title catalog (wing b ). textual changes and metadata enrichments aim at making the text more computationally tractable, easier to read, and suitable for network-based collaborative curation by amateur and professional end users from many walks of life. the text has been tokenized and linguistically annotated with morphadorner. the annotation includes standard spellings that support the display of a text in a standardized format that preserves archaic forms ('loveth', 'seekest'). textual changes aim at restoring the text the author or stationer meant to publish. this text has not been fully proofread approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. earlyprint project evanston,il, notre dame, in, st. louis, mo a wing b estc r ocm this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) a relation of the troubles of the three forraign churches in kent, caused by the injunctions of william laud, archbishop of canterbury, anno dom. &c. written by j.b., minister of the word of god. j. b. (john bulteel), d. . [ ], p. for sam enderbie ..., imprinted at london : . attributed to j. bulteel. cf. bm. errata: p. . reproduction of original in british library. reel guide incorrectly lists this item as located at : . eng religious tolerance -- england. great britain -- church history -- th century. a r (wing b ). civilwar no a relation of the troubles of the three forraign churches in kent. caused by the injunctions of william laud archbishop of canterbury. anno j. b c the rate of defects per , words puts this text in the c category of texts with between and defects per , words. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - apex covantage keyed and coded from proquest page images - tcp staff (michigan) sampled and proofread - olivia bottum text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion a relation of the troubles of the three forraign churches in kent . caused by the injunctions of william laud archbishop of canterbury . anno dom. . &c. written by j. b. minister of the word of god . et quorum pars magna fui . sam. . . be of good courage , and let us play the men for our people ; and the lord doe that which seemeth him good . imprinted at london for sam. enderbie at the starre in popes head alley . . to the christian reader . the honourable house of commons assembled in parliament did exhibite divers articles against william laud archbishop of canterbury unto the lords of the upper house the twelft whereof is set downe in these words : he hath traiterously indevoured to cause division and discord betwixt the church of england and other reformed churches ; and to that end hath supprest and abrogated the priviledges and immunities which have been by his majestie and his royall ancestors granted to the dutch and french churches in this kingdome : and divers other wayes hath expressed his malice and dis-affection to these churches ; that so by such dis-union the papists might have more advantage for the overthrow and extirpation of both . the truth of this appeares by the archbishops proceeding against our forraign churches in england , for although the deputies of all the forraign churches met at london , anno . and held a synod , whereof i was a member , deputed by the church of canterbury , and went to the king , who was accompanied with the duke of buckingham , the earl of pembroke , and sectetary morton , all deceased , and others , and a speech was made in french to the kings majesty by m. primrose , containing among other things a petition for the continuance of our priviledges concerning our discipline , according to our custom granted heretofore by his ancestors and royall progenitors . the king gave us a gracious answer and 〈◊〉 promise , and gave us his hand to kisse ; and we enjoyed our priviledges as long as archbishop abbot lived . yet as soone as 〈◊〉 was warme in his archbishops seat , he indeavoured with tooth and naile to suppresse and abrogate our priviledges and immunities granted to our forraign churches by his majestie and his royall ancestors ; to introduce the book of common prayer in our churches , and subject us to the english liturgie translated into french , &c. and to withdraw from our churches those of the first and second descent , to have them goe to the english parishes , as may fully appeare by this relation . true it is that in king james his raigne the two forraign churches french and dutch in norwich , were assaulted and troubled by dr. overald bishop of norwich , and especially by his chancellour , but that was about two points ; the one was a prohibition to observe publicke fasts without the kings permission ( which the churches had implicite in the toleration of their discipline . ) the second was , a command to the communicants of both congregations to receive the communion not sitting but standing . indeed when the french forraign churches held their synod at norwich , anno dom. . to the which i was deputed , and was chosen scribe by the synod ; at that time the bishops chancellour came to our synod , and told us , that my lord would have the communicants kneele at the communion , which seemed very strange to us . i was chosen to goe to the chancellour , accompanied by the whole synod , and declared to him what priviledges we had from time to time from king edward , queene elizabeth of famous memorie , and from king james then reigning . the chancellour answered us , that the king might alter his word & revoke his promise . but we replied , that we esteemed the kings word as much as a patent . we went afterwards to the bishop , who told us that his chancellour had abused him , he never intended that those of the forraign congregation should receive the communion kneeling but standing as they did in france . he told us that his majesty commanded him to look to his diocesse . we answered , that the two forraign congregations in norwich were in his diocesse , but not of his diocesse ; and desired his lordship to let the churches be in quiet till we had communicated the businesse to our consistories , and returned our answer to the two churches . which he promised to doe . in the meane time the bishop died . the bishop who succeeded him was content to let the two congregations enjoy their discipline in their fasts and communion , so that archbishop abbot would set his hand to such a permission ; which was a strange condition : for he might have considered , that the archbishop did not trouble the forraign churches in his diocesse , but let them enjoy their priviledges quietly . but after the bishop had heard the kings answer to the forraign churches , permitting the continuance of their discipline , he did not molest them , but the two congregations lived in peace till archbishop lauds time , who was not content to trouble the three forraign churches in his diocesse , but endeavoured to assault all the forraign churches in this kingdome ; and did cite their deputies to appeare , and meant not to deprive them of two or three points of their discipline , but to dispossesse them of all , and to submit them to the english discipline . yet when he saw he could not bring it to passe , he would have perswaded the world he never intended such an injunction , as will appeare by this following treatise . we intend not to write of the troubles of all the forraign churches in england , or those of london or of norwich , but by the by , or a touch of them by occasion ; our purpose is to write principally and summarily what hapned to the three forraign churches in kent . in which narration it will appeare the malice and dis-affection of the archbishop of canterbury to the dutch and french churches in this kingdome which stood in his way , intending the dissipation and extirpation of them , that so his fine designe of bringing in popery might have taken effect and sure footing in england to the overthrow of the true protestant religion , had not god in his great mercy put an end and set a period to his ambition , his tyranny , designes , and life . a relation of the troubles of the three forraigne churches in kent . after the death of george abbot archbishop of canterbury , william laud bishop of london was promoted to that see , and made archbishop thereof ; who at his entrance obtained of the kings majesty a patent for a generall visitation of all the diocesses under his jurisdiction , as well of those that were exempts as otherwise . and although the foraigne churches of this realme were not comprehended in that patent ( for whereas bishops , deanes , archdeacons , canons , prebendaries , ministers and others were nominated , the forraine churches were not named ) yet the archbishop presupposed and pretended them to be ; and therefore in the visitation of his diocesse of canterburie , by his commissioners in aprill anno domini , . he caused the three forreine churches to be cited to appeare by their deputies in canterburie ; namely of canterburie , sandwich , and maidston , the deputies of which churches appeared on the . day of april , in master deanes house before his commissioners , which were sir nathaniel brent , the deane of canterburie , and others , the bishop of rochester being sicke and absent ; where were questions propounded to the walloone congregation at canterburie , and the dutch congregations of sandwich and maidston , whereunto they are to make answere in writing , severally , or jointly , on saterday next in the afternoone , betweene the houres of one and five of the clocke . first , what liturgie they use , and whether they have not the english liturgie in dutch , or french in use . secondly , of how many desents for the most part they are borne subiects . thirdly , whether such as are borne subjects will corforme to the church of england ? the deputies were , gasparus nieren minister of the dutch church of sandirich ; jeha bulteel , and philip deline , ministers of the french church in canterburie . iohn miller minister of the dutch church of maidston , and some elders . iohn bulteel was requested by the 〈◊〉 to 〈◊〉 the speaker , he therefore answered the commissioners , that though 〈◊〉 three forreine churches were in my lord archbishop of canterburies diocesse , they were not of his diocesse , and that they were of the erempts ; and whereas doctor warner said , that the deane and chapter were of the exempts also , yet were comprehended in the patent and were visited ; he answered , they were in a manner doubly exempted , and not contained as they conceived expresly and by name as they were ( deanes , archdeacons , prebends , and others nominated in the patent ) they added also that no archbishop did ever propound any such question to their churches ; and that it might be easily knowne , and was knowne what liturgie they had it being added ordinarily to the end of the psalmes , as it was practised and used in france , germanie and holland , in the french walloone and dutch congregations . as for the english liturgy , it was translated into french , but not in dutch that they knew ; neither was it in use among them , they having their owne liturgy . now the deputies being pressed to answer more particularly to the three questions desired of the commissioners a longer time to answer to those propositions , because they were to communicate them to their congregations and they of sandwich and matdston could not returne an answer so soone . so the commissioners did prorogue the time and did appoint the day of answering to those questions that day three weekes , namely the fifth of may , sir nathaniel brent , deane bargrave and doctor iackson , spake of their governmenr and discipline concerning refractary and deboshed perions ; and praising them for the care they had of their poore , in setting them on worke , and not permitting them to beg , giving them sufficient maintenance . but doctor warner could not endure to heare those praises , startled and snuft at it , using some discurteous words , as if those praises were to the disparagement of the english churches , &c. notwithstanding some justices of peace at sessions , in giving the charge , would often make honourable 〈◊〉 of the forraigne churches in england and wish theirs would 〈◊〉 them , propounding them as patternes and examples to english churches , concerning their poore , in setting them to worke , and hindering them from begging . the church of canterbury being assembled together , according to its custome namely , the ministers , elders and deacons , and considering it was a subject of great importance , and a matter of consequence , that concerned all the forraign churches found it sitting to write to the coetus , that is to say to the two stranger churches , the french and dutch consistory of london , and to aske their councell , advice , and helpe : who returneó their answer , that the three congregations of canterbury , sandwich and maidstone , should doe well to depute some of every church , and send them up to london to conferre there , together with the coetus , about the businesse , as being a subject of great concernment . the church of canterbury deputed their two ministers , john bulteel and philip delme , and two of their elders , with instructions to conferre with those of london , and gave them in writing the answer to the three propositions , which were to be shewed to the company there but not to be delivered up to the arch-bishops vicar-generall but with the advice and consent of the coetus , and but upon necessity : the answer was this , upon the first question . that we have that liturgy , which all the churches of the french tongue , both in france and in the united provinces of the estates have had since the blessed reformation , and which our churches refuged here have had this sixty or siventy years or more , and which is annexed to the 〈◊〉 of the book of psalms . that the english liturgy is translated into french , but we use it not ; we know not whether it be in dutch or no . on the second question . that the greatest part of the heads of the families are not borne here , but about a third part ; because that the greatest part of the old ones are strangers borne , and many others are newly come since a few yeers . to the third question . the mentioned in that proposition desire not to doe that which is inquired of ; because they see that the 〈◊〉 of the church would ensue , both in regard of the entertainment of the ministry 〈◊〉 particularly for the subvention of the poore ; to the whch they are not onely brought up , but also ingaged by promise made unto god and the church . besides , many of the natives understand not nor speak so well the english as they should , to understand well the sermons and prayers . moreover , the families would be divided in the publike exereises of piety ; therfore they find it fit and necessary that a 〈◊〉 be made by all meanes , that they may continue as they have hitherto done : and that , first , according to the priviledges since edward the sixth , both by royall word and promise , with approbation of our order , as by letters of the most honourable privy-counsell under whom we have and doe as refuged subsist and continue . 〈◊〉 , on the testimony both of the 〈◊〉 or 〈◊〉 a 〈◊〉 of this towne , as also the certificate of the gentry and country concerning our good behaviour , &c. this was made and subscribed by divers of the said church , in the name of all the rest , aprill . . whereupon the deputies of the said church with those of sandwich went up to london , where they met with the minister of maidston , and having conferred together with the coetus or two forraigne churches of london ; they made this answer in writing to my lord arch-bishop of canterbury . questions propounded to the walloon congregation at canterbury , and the dutch congregations at sandwich and maidston , by the right worshipfull commissioners of my lord arch-bishop of canterburie's grace , aprilis . . first , what liturgy they use , and whether they haeve not the english liturgy in dutch or french in use . secondly , of how many descents for the most part they are borne subjects . thirdly , whether such as are borne subjects will conforme to the church of england . to the which questions , the answer of the said churches is , that they doe greatly honour and respect the dignity , person and merit of my lord arch-bishop his grace ; but doe most humbly beseech his grace not to be offended , if in particular they doe not answer the said questions : because it is a thing not used heretofore by any of the lords archbishops his predecessors . and because the forraigne churches of this kingdome have obtained a patent from king edward the sixth , confirmed by queen elizabeth , by the late deceased king james princes of glorious memory , and by his majesties now reigning ( whom god long blesse and preserve ) in which patent , by a speciall grace , the said forreigne churches in regard of their liturgy and ecclesiasticall discipline , are exempted from the jurisdiction of the lord arch-bishops and bishops , as also from 〈◊〉 officers and justices of this kingdome , therefore the said churches doe most humbly beseech my lord archbishop his grace for the avoyding of the ruine and dissipation of the said churches to shew them his favor in the continuance of the modest and peaceable exercise of their said liturgy and ecclesiasticall discipline ; seeing the said exercise is grounded on the royall promise of his majesty , for the preservation and prosperity of whose person , as also of the queens majesty and the royall issue , they make continuall prayer to the lord : and also in testimony of their gratitude and acknowledgement , they will not faile to pray , &c. aprill . . john bulteel . ministers of the word of god to the walloon congregation of canterbury . philip delme . ministers of the word of god to the walloon congregation of canterbury . john de bever elders of the said church . ph. lernott , elders of the said church . gasparus nierenius ecclesiae belgicae quae est sandwici pastor . jo. vanden broumker , elder of the said church . john miller minister of the word of god in the dutch congregation at maidston . in the name of the said congregations . this answer was delivered up to sir nathaniel brent by the deputies at his house in london ; who said it was a modest answer and with respect , and that he would deliver it to my lord ; desired them to shew the parent of king edward the sixth , or a copy thereof , that my lord might have a fight thereof ; who were not willing to shew him the originall , but gave him a copy thereof ( written by a notarie ) to deliver it to my lord . so taking their leaves of sir nathaniel brent and dilmissed with very curteous words , the deputies returned to their severall churches and charges . the churches were in good hope that their answer would have given my lord satisfaction and content , and nothing was heard from my lord or his vicar-generall for a long time ; all seemed husht and asleep , but not dead : for sir nathaniel having ended his perambulation and visitation of divers provinces for that yeer , returned to canterbury , and intimated unto the ministers of the french congregation , that my lord was not satisfied nor content with their precedent answer , and had order to cite them to appeare with those of sandwich and maidston before him and other commissioners the . of december in master sumners house , to heare my lords injunctions : the deputies of canterbury and sandwich appeared at the place & time before them , who propounded the injunctions spake somwhat of the english liturgy , wished it were received in their churches for the glory of the english churches ; and seeing that both the english and strangers had but one religion in substance , why should there be a different liturgy and discipline between them ? told them that if they would confer & discourse with the divines ( the deane and master casaubon ) they might goe downe into the garden and there talk and communicate together : the deputies answered , they came not there to conserre or dispute together , but to heare what they had to say from my lord ; and because the time to answer to the said injunctions was short , as that the natives should resort to their parish churches the third day of january , and the liturgy should be read in the forraine churches the . of february ; they demanded some more respite for their answer ; the commissioners were content to give them time to the first of march , and so master sumner by charge of sir nathaniel brent sent them 〈◊〉 act , and in this forme . decimo nono die decembris anno domini . coram venerabilibus viris domino nathanaele brent milite , legum doctore reverendissimi in christo patris ac domini domini gulielmi 〈◊〉 archiepiscopi & 〈◊〉 in spiritualibus generali , isaaco bargrave saerae theologiae professore , decano ecclesiae cathedralis & metropolicae christi 〈◊〉 , & merico casaubon sacrae theologiae bacchalanreo , ejusdem ecclesiae praebendario , commissariis reverendissimi domini archiepiscopi , in & pro visitatione sua metropolitica constitutis in aedibus ac in praesentia willielmi sumner notarii publici registrarij principalis deputati . quibus die & loco , comparuerunt magister joannes bulteel clericus & magister philippus delme clericus , 〈◊〉 ecclesiae 〈◊〉 apud cantuarium , una cum senioribus ( uti vocant ) ejusdem ecclesiae quibus domini domini commissarij intimarunt : that all the natives of their walloon congregation must resort to the severall parish churches of those 〈◊〉 wherein they inhabite to heare divine service and sermons , and performe all duties of parishioners required in that behalfe ; and that the ministers and all others of the same walloon or french congregation which are aliens borne , shall have and use the liturgy used in the english churches ; as the same is , or may be faithfully translated into french : & 〈◊〉 eos , to informe their congregation hereof , and to conforme them and themselves hereunto by the first of march next . examinatur per me willielmum somner notarium publicum . the like was given unto those of sandwich , and the vicar-generall passing through maidston gave the like charge unto the minister and elders of the dutch congregation there ; the deputies of canterbury and sandwich found it fitting that the passages of the businesse should be related unto their owne churches and thought good to write to the two forreigne churches or coetus of london , and certifie them what had passed between them and the commissioners ; who returned an answer , that seeing it was a case that concerned all the forraigne churches french and dutch of this kingdome , and their case was a leading case to the other churches ; it was fitting , nay , necessary , that they should be advertised thereof : so the deputies of both churches canterbury and sandwich wrote to all the forreigne churches dutch and french or walloon in this kingdome , entreating them to send their deputies to london armed with good instructions and reasons , for the maintaining of the subsistence of their churches , 〈◊〉 bring with them their writings and priviledges to that end ; and to be at london the fifth of february following there to conferre together concerning those injunctions . but because the time prefixed seemed somewhat long , which notwithstanding cou'd not well be abreviated by 〈◊〉 of the great distances of the churches , and their preparation , and that the 〈◊〉 required haste , for it was thought the kings majesty would be gone from white-hall the . of the moneth of february , and that some presupposed that my lord of canterbury , might be 〈◊〉 with complements , in 〈◊〉 him and offering him their service ( although there were others that thought otherwise ) requesting him to let them enjoy their priviledges as they had hitherto done , and not be troubled but permitted to live in peace ; the deputies therefore of the three forementioned churches , whom it most and primarily concerned , were counselled to anticipate the time and goe to london ; to goe first to my lord of canterbury and beseech him to revoke his injunctions ; and in case he would not be moved to recall them , they might prepare matters before the arrivall of the deputies of other churches ; and if need were , goe joyntly together to the king : so the deputies of canterbury and sandwich went for london and met there the deputies of maidston , where consulting together with the ministers and elders of the french and dutch congregation in their coetus ; it was found expedient to goe to the arch-bishop , to petition him by word of mouth : so the deputies went to the vicar-generall , told him the cause of their comming , and the desire they had to speak to my lord , who told them he would goe to my lord , and wisht them to be at white-hall at my lords lodging on the last of january , where the deputies went at the appointed time : my lord did not call them into his inward room , but came out into his outward , there being but a curtaine between him and the people ; who comming there and sitting in his pontisiciall chaire , not so much as vailing his bonnet to the deputies , who came in the name of their churches , john bulteel made this speech unto my lord in the name of the rest . most reverend father in god : we the ministers with some elders of the three 〈◊〉 churches of canterbury , sandwich and maidston , deputed by the said congretions , doe present our selvs before you tendring in humility our service to your grace , knowing the 〈◊〉 place which you have under our gracious soveraign , whom god long preserve . but my lord interrupted him saying , i know your dostrine , parity of ministers , hatle fellow well met , and used discurteous words , and would heare no more of the speech ; telling the deputies he had appointed the munday following for the day of hearing , and had no leisure to heare a thing twice ; had spoken to his vicar generall and sir john lambe judge of the arches to be there at the appointed time , so he put it off and dismissed then ; who much wondred at his harsh salutation and hard words at the first meeting , and began to conjecture what the issue would be , being wo roughly dealt at their first comming , and found the contrary by experience , of what they had heard that my lord was affable and curteous to those that came to him . the same deputies returned to my lord at the appointed houre , where the soresaid minister who began the former speech , and had pezed his words the former time , as namely when he said knowing the eminent place he had under the king ( he said not under god ) for he had it not 〈◊〉 divino , but by the liberality and munificence of the king : the said j. b. omitting that which he had said before , proceeded on . my lord : we returne here to represent unto your grace , that the injunction which hath been made unto us by your commissioners , are 〈◊〉 to our priviledges , which we have enjoyed for the space of fourscore yeers , by the grace , favour , liberality , permission and protection of three high and mighty princes of blessed and happy memory , king edward the vi . queen elizabeth and king james , and confirmed by the royall promise of our dread soveraigne ( whom god long preserve ) and never were as yet hindered by the command of any of the lords arch-bishops your predecessors , we hope we shall enjoy the like favour , as having never abused of the same liberty , as may appeare by divers certificates of our good behaviour and 〈◊〉 conversation in the places where we live . as for the observation of those injunctions it wil be very prejudicial unto our churches as an occasion of the dispersion and diseput on of them , the ruine of many families , and a hinderance of the conversion of many papists which come from beyond the seas to our churches . we beseechmost humbly your grace , that you would be pleased to revoke these injunctions , and to permit us to continue to enjoy our priviledges , with out any 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and molestation , to the comfort of our churches , that are very much perplexed with these injunctions : so shall we be the moreobliged and bound &c. my lord made a discourse of his proceedings before he answered to the discourse told them he had a visitation to make in all the diocesses of his jurisdiction , and would begin with his owne house and diocesse , and so with them ; he thanked them for their prayers and wishes , and he would pray for them : but whether they prayed for him or no , he would goe on , and would them good , but in a canonicall way ; that he did nothing but that he had communicated it to the king and counsell , which had been there debated , that their discourse contained some reasons , but he could see no reason that the observation of the injunctions could or would bring such inconveniences ; that he had a copy of the patent of king edward the vi . ( which he drew out of his pocket ) and said that would not serve them , and that they were much mistaken . he spake often very harshly and bitterly unto the deputies , and in a jeering and scoffing way , spake very basely of their communion , said , that their churches used irreverence at their communion sate altogether as if it were in a tavern or ale-house , where one drunk to another the minister beginning and the people following him ; that their ministry & discipline was not secundum evangelium , the english was , and bishops 〈◊〉 divine , that he would engage his arch. bishoprick theron , and would dispute with the best of them , that all they did was to take away bishops , that they were the wise and religious , and he with the rest , the superstitious and idolaters , that they were israel in aegypt , that they would make a state in a state , and if they did so , he needs not be there in that place ; that their churches were nests and occasion of scisme , that his intention was to hinder the scisme in kent , where there are so many factious , who though they were not guilty of death , yet worthy to be punished ; that it were better there were no forraigne churches nor strangers in england , then to have them thereby to give occasion or prejudice to the church-government of england ; that his intention was to governe the church of england according to the canons , except the king would restraine him ; that he told the king that he would begin with his owne diocesse , that they vanted they did not feare him nor care for his injunctions , but he hoped the king would maintaine him ; he could not abide to heare so much of churches , and said , there was but one church , and many such like things ; these criminations and scoffes , were not uttered with one breath but intermixed in his discourse . the deputies that came not there to dispute and answer every thing but to request and heare what my lord would say , did answere but now and then as they durst or might , not going beyond their commission , told him that they were not the cause of scisme , and that there were many such ( scismaticks , as he termed them but indeed godly reformed protestants ) in those places where no strangers churches were , as in devonshire , dorsetshire , and other counties , that they never vanted in that manner , did never exalt their owne discipline , but contented with their owne medled not with theirs ; they hoped they should enjoy their priviledges as heretofore , that they could shew certificates of their good behaviour , civill and quiet carriage , both of the mayor , aldermen , yea , bourmouth of canterbury , of the deane and chapter of christs church , and of the lords , knights and gentry of the country . he told them , he had heard good report of them , and would not disgrace them so much as to aske for certificates , and that he thought charitably of them , that they were not the cause nor counsellours and maintainers of scismaticks , but the permission of the forraigne churches and discipline was the occasion of many factious persons in his diocesse . the deputies told him , that the execution of his injunctions would be the dissipation , yea , the destruction of their churches , that the ministry and poore could not be maintained ; he seemed not to beleeve it , and said , that they were not to regard two or three ministers ; they replyed they did not speak for themselves , but for their churches ; many among them not understanding the english tongue ; he said , that was but a designe , and that from the beginning they should have sent their children to the parishes to learne the language and accustome them to it from their infancy and youth . in fine , his full resolution was to have his injunctions put in full execution on the day prefixed , and that they should look to it to their perils , and commanded sir nathaniel brent his vicar-generall to goe on with them : the deputies said , they had the kings royall promise , who said he would shew unto the forraigne churches the same savour which the king his father had shewed unto them , my lord said , that they might goe unto the king if they would ( as any subject might doe ) and his hand should not be the heavier on them for it ; those that were english borne , and the kings subjects , should be subject to his jurisdiction , and if they had any thing to say to him hereafter , they might come to him againe , and so dismissed the deputies . now because mention is made of the certificate and good testimony of the chapter of canterbury , it may be fitly inserted in this place . we , the deane and chapter of the cathedrall and metropoliticall church of christ canterbury . at the request of the walloon congregation here being and residing ; do testifie and declare , that the body of the same congregation for many yeeres past , and still doe very religiously , obediently , orderly and civilly demeane and behave themselves towards god and all the kings majesties officers , and others in these parts ( for any thing we have ever heard to the contrary ) and most painfully and industriously labour in their severall vocations , so as none of them are chargeable or axy wayes burdensome to the english , but rather very helpfull to the poorer sort , by setting them to spinning and other workes , whereby they are much relieved 〈◊〉 kept from idlenesse . neither have we knowne or heard of any just complaints made against the same congregation for any hinderance or prejudice done by them to the english people 〈◊〉 these parts . and we are verily perswaded that the example of their painfull industry and diligent labours , doth move and stirre up the honest poore of our nation to set themselves to worke . in testimony whereof we have set our cemmon seale . dated 〈◊〉 our chapterhouse the . of march , in the yeere of the reigne of our soveraigne lord james , by the grace of god king of england , france and ireland , defender of the faith , &c. the one and twentieth , and of scotland the six and fiftieth , anno dom. . there was another certificate of the knights and gentlemen neere canterbury , couched in the same tenor and words , and there was one of the major bourmouth of canterbury in the same stile , onely an exception by parenthesis ( except some few of them whom the body of the said congregation did not nor doe approve of . ) the deputies related to the coetus what had passed between my lord arch-bishop & them , who together found it fitting that they should stay till the fifth of february the day appointed for the assembly of the synod of all the deputies of all the stranger churches in this kingdome & then and there to make a relation of all the passages which had happened unto that day . the deputies of the forraign churches appeared at the appointed time & shewed their letters of credence the persons chosen to be the moderator , the assistant , and the scribe of the synod according to its custome ( we intend not to write downe the acts of that synod in this short epitome , but onely what concernes this businesse ) the deputies of kent made a discourse to the assembly of what they had done , and were approved , as having begun there where they should , namely with my lord of canterbury , who otherwise would have been very much offended if they had gone first to the king ; who would without doubt have sent them to his arch-bishop ; but they seeing the deputies could not by their petition to my lord cause him to revoke his injunctions , and that my lord told them they might goe to the king if they would , they holding their priviledges from the kings majesty immediatly , and not from my lord , and that they had no other way then to goe directly to the king . there being especially no parliament assembled at that time : the synod found it fitting . yea , necessary to send joyntly together some deputies to the king in the name of the whole synod , who represented the forraigne churches of this kingdome with a petition to his majesty , and a speech to be made unto him . the deputies were master marmet , master primrose , master gasparus , master proast , master beauuois and john bulteel ministers , besides master lucie , and master du mont elders , sir william st. ravi a french gentleman was the man , who at the request of the deputies went to the king to know his mind ; who told him he was content to receive a petition but would not heare any discourse : so those that were deputed to that action , on the of february , waited for the king at his comming forth out of his chappell going to dinner ; and master marmet one of the ministers of the french church of london , accompanied by the foresaid deputies , ministers and elders , gave unto his majesty the petition : this was the petition . to the kings most excellent majesty . the humble petition of the forraigne churches in this realme of england . humbly sheweth to your sacred majesty , that the petitioners and their predecessours , by your highnesse favour , and your noble progenitors , have and doe 〈◊〉 enjoy severall priviledges concerning the state of government of their churches . but of late they have beene acquainted with an injunction made by the right honourable the lord of canterbury his grace , and directed to the forraigne churches which are in his diocesse . by the execution whereof , 〈◊〉 will ensue the dissipation not onely of the said churches , but also of all other forraigne churches in this your majesties kingdome . the petitioners therefore humbly beseech , that your sacred majestie would extend your highnesse favour towards them still , and be graciously pleased to heare the petitioners deputies in your most honourable privie councell , upon the most humble remonstrances which the petitioners will produce unto your majestie and their honours therein . and as in duty bound , the petitioners will continue to pray to god for your majesties long and prosperous reigne , &c. the king going to dinner gave the petition to my lord chamberlin to give it to one of the secretaries ; who told the king many considerable things in the behalfe of the forraigne churches which he affected and favoured : to whom the king said , we must beleeve our archbishop of canterbury in the hearing of master gasparus , one of the deputies . ) my lord chamberlin came and told the deputies what he had told the king , and what the king had charged him with , and that he went to give the petition to sir john cooke secretary : they thanked his honour for his good will towards them , and care of them ; glad that the petition should fall into the hands of that religious secretary 〈◊〉 , that good patriot ; and not in the hands of sir 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that popish secretary , and my lord of canterburies creature . the said afternoone sir william saint 〈◊〉 waiting on the kings majesty in saint james parke , give unto his majesty the speech in french , which should have beene made unto him in the morning . the tenour whereof was this , thus translated into english . to the king . most gracious soveraigne , the forraigne churches , which under the favour , maintenance and support of the kings your predecessours ( whose memory is blessed ) have been established , and who doe as yet subsist in your kingdome , under the same favour of your majesty . having 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 prejudication or fore-judgement of their dissipation in an injunction directed from my lord archbishop of canterbury , to those churches that reside in his diocesse are here in the persons of 〈◊〉 deputies at your majesties feet , to intreat your majesty most humbly that with the same affection and royall promise , with the which it was pleased at its happy comming to the crowne , to confirme unto them their priviledges granted unto them by your majesties predecessours , it will be also pleased now to prevent their 〈◊〉 just apprehensions , and stop the blow of their ruine . the said injunction hath two branches , the one whereof is directed unto 〈◊〉 that are borne in this land ; tending that they are to seperate themselves , and to goe and remaine every 〈◊〉 in his owne parish : the other concernes the strangers , that they are to leave and quit their ordinary liturgy , and to range and ranke themselves to that of england . the first command ( sir ) doth undermine at one blow , and overthrow the fovndation of the subsistence of their churches . for although the natives doe in some places make the greater , and in some others the least part thereof ; yet neverthelesse they are every where the most important and considerable part , because they onely possesse some meanes , and by their extraordinary liberall reliefe the ministrie is entertained , and a great quantity of poore maintained 〈◊〉 they are charged . so that those withdrawing themselves , the pastors will remaine without entertainment , 〈◊〉 churches without exercise , the poore without assistance ; and the rest being composed of no others then artificers , ignorant of the english tongue , and whose abode ( being not stable for want of meanes ) is as uncertaine as indifferent ; shall be constrained to goe and seeke elsewhere the exercise 〈◊〉 their religion . thus all being dissipated by this first command , the second will remaine very unprofitable . the singular pietie of your majestie is well knowne of all , and we have seen with our eyes notable effects of its good naturall and mercifull disposition towards those that professe with it the same purity of doctrine , to make us ever to beleeve that it will suffer under its reigne , or can see with his eyes so great adesolation . that these poore flocks , who hath escaped the fire , the massacres and persecutions , are come here , and have been received , and put under covert as in a place of refuge and sanctuary of a holy temple ; shall be now dispersed , and compelled to seek elswhere some certaine and sure seat and dwelling . that these forraigne plants , cast by divers stormes and violent tempests on the coasts of this island , so carefully gathered together by the good edward the vi . and welcomed by him , so favourably maintained and entertained by that vertuous princesse queen elizabeth , attained to perfection under the reigne , as happy , as peaceable of that great and wise king james your majesties father ; and in this time flourishing as much as ever under your gracious dominion and government , shall be now plucked up by the roots ? as it were to the blame , check and contempt of the prudence and charity of all those who hitherto have beheld it with a good eye and favoured their growth ? that those lively monuments erected to the everlasting memory of all those good princes , and that doe highly publish over all the world the fame and glory of their piety , charity and hospitality towards the afflicted members of the lord jesus , should be cast downe and reduced into dust ? that those 〈◊〉 and expressed testimonies of the union of this kingdome , with the reformed churches of france and of germany , and of the united provinces , so religiously kept and upheld hitherto : should now be broken and sent back as in signe and token of a sad and totall seperation ? they are things unto the which we hope your majesty will never wholy condescend and resolve ? especiall at this time , wherein the churches of germany swimming in their owne blood those of france in their teares , all in the midst of their ruine and apprehensions of a greater desolation ; they have no other then your majesty on whom they can turne , cast and settle both their eyes and their hope ? what trances , perplexities and despaires will fame ( which publisheth things worse then they are ordinarily ) seize on the afflicted hearts ? publishing every where that there are no forraigne churches in england ? that there is now no place of resuge , nor of succour and safeguard to those that are persecuted for the true religion sake ? 〈◊〉 and agonies which will be redoubled by the reproaches of 〈◊〉 , who will shew their condemnation in ours , and will never faile to tell them , and it may be to cause them to feele , that it is with more then reason and justice , that the popish princes doe persecute and 〈◊〉 them away , seeing that they cannot be tolerated and supported even by those that are of their owne profession . we most humbly beseech your m esty that you would be pleased to 〈◊〉 well these things ; and as our consciences 〈◊〉 testifie unto us , that by our demeanour , which even to this day have by the grace of god avoyded the blowes and girds of 〈◊〉 it selfe ; we have not made our selves unworthy of the continuation of your royall favours ; you will be pleased in this 〈◊〉 to cause us to feel the effects thereof , and receiving the most humble petitition which we present unto your majesty , to answer it as favourably as you have been graciously pleased heretofore to promise us that our entertainment and usage shall not be worse under your government then it hath been under the dominion of your royall predecessors . and so filled with joy and comfort , we will continue our servent prayers unto god for your majesties health long and prosperous life , the good of the estate , the encrease , the glory and prosperity of your royall and most flourishing family . this speech was set downe in its owne language and termes , which cannot be so well expressed in another tongue ; for , nunquam tmitator par fit authori : containing , as you see , reasons and arguments sufficient to move his majestie to permit the continuance of enjoying the priviledges granted unto the forraigne churches , and confirmed by his predecessours and his royall majesty . the sinod held it convenient to depute some of their assembly to the duke of 〈◊〉 , to intreat his highnesse to goe and speake to the kings majesty in their behalf ( because they had not nor heard any answer from him ) that he would be pleased to heare the deputies of the churches in his most honourable privie councell . the said lord , a very religious prince , who had done much for the churches in france , spent his meanes and blood for the true religion , refuged in england , and as a member of the forraigne churches in england ; much in favour with the king , being his godfather and cozen , did willingly and freely promise to doe it . the very same day he went to the king , made the motion to him in the behalfe of the stranger churches . the king and the duke had some discourse about it ; among many words , he said that we were more afraid then hurt ; and that his intention was onely touching the first proposition concerning the natives . the synod omitting no meanes for the continuance of the subsistance of their churches ; hoping , as nicodemus said , the law judgeth no man before it heare him , and know what he doth ; and esteeming that the king , as another alexander , would give them an hearing as he had given to my lord of canterbury , and so reserve an eare for them : in case the king would heare them before his councell , according to their petition , chose some of the company , and that but few who should accompany him , that was to speake in the name of the rest , who had all the writings and papers requisite : the president was chosen to be the foreman , who upon some considetations desired to be excused ; whereupon john bulteel was elected to be the man ; which charge though he refused at the first , yet was faine at last to accept and undergoe it ; who among other paper , had two especially which contained the fundamentals and reasons , all which were given into his hands by the assembly ; the reason why it was thought convenient one of the company should doe it and rather one of kent then of any other province , was because if a councellour had spoken , none of the deputies should have had the liberty to speake ; whereas they could best answer to the objections and difficulties ; and none of the churches were charged by my lord of canterbury at that time , but those of kent . the sinod was glad that the petition was in master secretary cookes hand , and found it convenient to send to him two of the company . master primrese and john bulteel , to solicite him in the cause of the church that he might well understand the state of their churches , see their reasons and inconveniences that would arise and arrive upon the execution and observation of the injunctions ; that so by his meanes the king might be the better informed ; they presented unto him the fundamentals and the reasons which were to be presented to the king and his councell , in two severall papers . as for the fundamentals , they were these : fundamentals for the subsistance of the forraigne churches within this realme . anno . the parent of king edward the vi . where these words are found : . quod 〈◊〉 facti sunt corpus corporatum , & successionem habeant . . quod habeant authoritatem , 〈◊〉 ministros . . mandatur omnibus archiepiscopis & episcopis , ut permittant 〈◊〉 quiete frui , gaudere 〈◊〉 exercere ritus & caeremonias suas proprias , & disciplinam ecclesiasticam propriam & peculiarem non 〈◊〉 quod non conveniant cum ritibus ac 〈◊〉 in regno nostro uisitatis , absque 〈◊〉 impetitione 〈◊〉 aut in quietatione . per breve de privato sigillo & de actis praedict a authoritate parliaments . anno . the letters of the privy-counsell to the church of london containing these words . non ignoramus in varijs ecclesijs , varios ac diversos iam ab initio 〈◊〉 religionis semper fuisse ritus ac caremonias , dum hi stamtes , alij in 〈◊〉 procidentes , alij 〈◊〉 procumbentes adorant & precantur , & tamen 〈◊〉 pietas est ac religio si vere & ad verum deum or at 〈◊〉 tendat , absitque impietas ac superstitio &c. non contemnimus ritus vestros , nee vos ad nostros cogimus , probamusque caeremonias vesiras , ut vobis & vestris reipublicae unde orti estis aptas & convenientes . anno . the order of the privy-counsell the . of june . if others would joyne themselves to the said churches , that such people shall be counselled to betake themselves to some other parts of the kingdome , where they may be commodiously received : if they doe 〈◊〉 , we will call in willingly our former commandement . anno . the answer of king james to the french and dutch ministers , the . of may . je vous 〈◊〉 ainsi quil convient a un bon prince , de defendre 〈◊〉 ceux qui 〈◊〉 abandonne leur patrie pour la religion . mondesir est de vous defendre 〈◊〉 a fait la reyne defuncte 〈◊〉 , renommee par tout le monde qui vous a receuen son royaume & pour la quelle vous 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 dieu . que si aulcun estoit si ose que de vous molester en vos eglises vous addressant a 〈◊〉 je vous en feray telle justice qu'il 〈◊〉 point d'envie par apres d'y retourner . anno . the perpetuity granted to the dutch of colchester anno jacobi the . of october : as also their orders in their ( hurch and assemblies there , tending to the good government of the said congregation , in as free large and ample manner in all respects and to all intents , constructions and purposes , as heretofore they have used , and have been tolerated and allowed unto them according to the true intent of this our present ordinance ; any law , act , statute , ordinance , provision or jurisdiction to the contrary thereof notwithstanding . anno . the order of the privy-counsell for the french church of canterbury , the . of may . that the said congregation within the city of canterbury , shall accordingly to his majesties gracious pleasure peaceably and freely 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 such priviledges , liberties and immunities , and be permitted to use their assemblies and congregations in as ample manner as heretofore hath been allowed unto them in the time of queen elizabeth or since . anno . the order of king james under the signet , the . of june . these are therefore to will and command all our courts of 〈◊〉 and others our loving subjects , to permit and suffer the said 〈◊〉 members of the outlandish churches , and their children to of our favours before declared in this behalfe . 〈◊〉 the 〈◊〉 kindnesse and good entertainment which our subjects and their children doe receive and find beyond the seas . anno . the order of the privy-counsell for the walloons of norwich , the . of october . those of norwich although borne in the kingdome , shall continue to be of the said church and society , and shall be subject to such 〈◊〉 as hath been all the time ( of yeers ) practized among them ; and if any shall be refractory , they shall be bound to appeare at this board . anno . the gracious answer of king charles to the deputies of the forraigne churches the . of aprill . i thanke you for this , and i assure you i will continue unto you the same favour which the king my father did shew unto you ; and i hope my marriage shall not be any dammage unto you , but rather an occasion of much good to your country-men . anno . the order of king charles for all strangers the . of november . we will and command our judges , &c. to permit and 〈◊〉 the 〈◊〉 strangers , members of the outlandish churches and 〈◊〉 children , 〈◊〉 to enjoy all and singular such priviledges and immunities as have been formerly granted unto them , without any troubles , arrests , or 〈◊〉 , by way of information or otherwise ; considering the faire usage and good intertainment which our subjects and their children doe receive 〈◊〉 the seas . anno . the order of the privy-counsell for the dutch of norwich , the . of january . that all those that are now or that hereafter shall be members of the dutch congregation , although borne within the kingdome , shall continue to be of that church and society , so long as his majesty shall be pleased , without any prejudice to their priviledges or birth-right : and shall be subject to such discipline as hath been by all the time aforesaid usually 〈◊〉 among them ; and from time to time contribute to the maintainance of the ministry and poore , and the defraying of all other necessary charges of the same congregations , as they shall be assessed , and occasion shall in that behalfe require . the second paper or writing contained the reasons in a petition to his majesty in this forme . to the kings most excellent majesty . the most humble petition of the forraigne churches within this realme . most gracious soveraigne , a sentence having been pronounced by the 〈◊〉 of my lord arch-bishop has grace to the foreigne churches of canterbury , sandwich and maidston , 〈◊〉 these two injunctions . the one that some of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as are borne in this kingdome should resort to their parish churches . and the other of the strangers which shall remaine , shouldreceive the book of common-prayer of this kingdome . whereupon the other foraigne churches of the said kingdome being advertised thereof by letters , are all met together according to their order and ancient practice to cast themselves at your majesties feet by their deputies , and to entreat your majesty in all humility to consider , if the said sentence be executed , that there will follow much more hurt then good , as your majesty cleerly may perceive by the reasons following . as for the hurt , it will fall very great , as well in regard within as without this realme , of this sentence be executed . for thereby will be abolished the priviledges granted and confirmed to the said churches by king edward the vi . queen elizabeth , and the late king james your father , all excellent princes and of glorious memory . thereby likewise the royall promise of your mrjesty given at your comming to the crowne , will remaine fruitlesse and without effect ; from thence will follow a great confusion in families , some going to one church , some to another , and many of the natives not understanding the english tongue ; so that the heads of the said families will not be able duly to discharge themselves of the duty towards those that are under them . yea , from thence infallibly will ensue the dissipation of the said churches , forasmuch as the natives ( who are the pillars thereof ) being cut off , there wil be no meanes left to entertaine the ministry nor to help the necessities of a great number of poore . by reason of that , many good workmen will retire themselves elswhere , who daily furnish excellent manefactures to this kingdome and of all kind ; and by their retiring many thousands of your subjects who are imployed by them will find themselves destitute of work , yea from thence your custome is like to receive a great prejudice . if this sentence be executed in this time of confusion and trouble , it will cause a most sensible and sharp displeasure to all the reformed churches of divers countries , and more particularly to those of france . yea , which is more , this will make the said churches not onely more hatefull and contemptible to their adversaries , but even will be able to draw persecution upon them , their enemies judging by this change , that the good will of your majesty will be changed towards them . and sir , if the persecution should begin there , as alwayes it is much to be feared ; with what courage could the poore afflicted ones retire themselves hither , as formerly they have done , knowing that their liturgy should have been there overthrowne . your majesty will be also pleased to consider , that this alteration will hinder the conversion of many that are out of the way , living in the low-countries under the dominon of the king of spaine , who to the encrease of the kingdome of jesus christ , come hither in great number . thereby will be broken the outward union and good intelligence of the english church with all other reformed churches , whereof our adversaries of the romish church will triumph and make bonefires thereof at rome . from thence will follow , that there will remaine but one sacrament in our churches , being not admitted to administer baptisme to little children which shall be borne in this kingdome , yea , it will come to passe that the use of catechizing will faile amongst us , having no children to be catechized . to make short , most gracious soveraigne , thereby will be abolisht the entire use of our liturgy and discipline , which we have enjoyed so many yeers together , and have common with many churches in germany with those of the low-countries , and of the kindome of france ; all renowned in regard of the purity of their doctrine , common with that of this kingdome : as also in regard of great and excellent persons , which from time time are come out of the midst of them . and for all the good that can be pretended for it , will be . that by this meanes your majesties subjects will be seen to goe to their parishes , and to serve god after the ordinary forme of the land ; but in the most part of the said churches this is done hitherto by them going thither many times , being imployed in all sorts of charges and offices at others , causing their children to be baptized there , & often receiving there the holy communion , and contributing for the ministers and other officers even as the rest of the kingdome . briefly , making profession with them of one and the same religion and 〈◊〉 they joyn themselves often in 〈◊〉 which concerneth the liturgy and divine service ; but besides , they come themselves with liberty amongst those of their owne tongue , to maintaine unity among them , and to provide for the entertainment of the ministry , as also for the relieving of the poore and needy . which things , the late king your glorious and wise father having ripely considered would never consent to the change , howsoever he were many times solicited thereunto . wherefore , most gracious soveraigne , seeing by these reasons it is altogether evident , that this change going forward , there will issue out of it more hurt then good , your majesty is entreated in all humility , by all the said forraign churches to enjoyne that the said sentence of my lord arch-bishop's grace be not executed ; and that the said churches continue in their liberties and priviledges that they have peaceably injoyed hitherto . and so our selves being full of consolation and joy we will more and more beseech the almighty for the conservation of your royall person of the queens majesty , of your royall issue , as also for the good and continuall prosperity of your crownes . now because the strangers seemed in the opinion of many to be very many in number in this kingdome , and especially many thousands in london , as if they were israel in aegypt , as my lord of canterbury said , whereas they are but few ; the two forenamed ministers doctor primrose and john bulteel , according to their commission , gave also to sir john cooke secretary , a note and number of the forraigne churches and of the communicants , with the two foresaid papers and writings , that the world might perceive its errour , and being otherwise informed might be reformed in it . the list of the number of the forraigne churches which are ten , and the number of the communicants was in this order . french and walloons of london dutch of london walloons of canterbury dutch of colchester walloons of norwich dutch of norwich dutch of maidston dutch of sandwich dutch of yarmouth walloons of southampton summa this is the totall number of the communicants of men , women and children , men-servants and maid-servants , both strangers and nativeborne , in the ten forraigne churches of this kingdome , nothing so many as they were presupposed to be . nay , there were some earles , lords and others who would not beleeve at first that there were so few strangers protestants in england till it was told them , and this list shewed to them by j. b. nay , they thought there were many more in london , then that number in the list , but the two soragin churches in london had no more then comunicants as above . true it is , that the royal exchange seemeth to 〈◊〉 with them . but they are not all french and dutch , there are spaniards , italians , portugals , and others , and a great number of such papists live in the 〈◊〉 and skirts of the city ; and therefore john bulteel told my lord of canterbury ( who spake often of the great number of strangers in 〈◊〉 especially ) that there were five french 〈◊〉 to one french 〈◊〉 ( 〈◊〉 meant not walloons protestants , ) and my lord 〈◊〉 the said party in a kind of anger , where so many were ; answered 〈◊〉 they might be found at sommerset house , and at the french 〈◊〉 house , and at court and elswhere ; all the world as well as himselfe could not but take notice of the great confluence of french papists in london , and in part because of the queens court . all this while there was no answer nor reference made by the king to the petition , although he was informed by secretary 〈◊〉 : and that the duke of soubise was with the king in behalfe of the said churches , who told him , they desired his majesty that they might have a hearing , and he seemed to condescend to it by some words he let fall . but whatsoever the matter was whether it was the businesse of london derry in ireland , between the kings majesty and the city of london , which imployed the lords of the honourable privy . counsell so many dayes in the starre chamber , being a matter of great importance and much pressed by the kings attourney generall , and so were hindered and had no leisure to heare the churches case and cause ; or that the arch-bishop who was powerfull with the king , was the remora and hindered it , and that it was his majesties pleasure to put it off , nay , not to have that matter so publike , nor to have it debated in his presence at the counsell-board , we know not . the churches seeing the time passed away & hearing of no answer , and perceiving that the time of the execution of the injunctions approached . found it necessary , that not all the deputies of the churches but the deputies of the three churches only 〈◊〉 kent should tender a second petition to his majesty , for the respiting and deferring of the execution untill their cause might be heard . and although there were some of the company that thought it fitting the petition should be given to his majesty by the deputies themselves , & that some short speech should be made by mouth ; yet it was thought fitter by the most votes , that the duke of soubise who had tendered the first petition , should be requested to tender this second petition to his majesty , who without doubt would bring an answer ; whereas if the deputies gave it , they might he as long without an answer as they had been before ; but if the duke of soubise found it not fitting to doe it , then to entreat one or two of the gentlemen of the kings bed chamber to tender it and if they refused to do it , as it may be they 〈◊〉 not tender it , least they should incurre the lord arch-bishop's indignation ; then the deputies themselves were to present it to the king , the petition to be tendered , and the short speech to be made by j. b. the deputies went to duke soubise and beseeched him that he would continue his good affection towards their churches and those good offices he had begun , and that he would be pleased to tender unto the kings majesty their second petition , and if possible to have an answer , knowing that none of the kings subjects no not any noble-man would venture to doe it , though some of them were familiar with the king and gracious in his eyes , and affected the forraigne churches and 〈◊〉 them well , and told to some of the deputies , that if their cause came to a hearing before the king at the counsell-board , they would speak their mindes , and doe some good offices to the churches , but durst not oppose the arch-bishop under board in that businesse , least they should incurre the kings indignation for his sake , who was so potent and gracious with the king : the duke of soubise noble-man of a curteous disposition , who took to heart the cause of the churches , and pittied their case , was very willing to accept of that charge and goe to the king , and present him the petion ; the deputies offered to goe with him to the court , if he thought good , according to the charge given them by the company , and wait on him , yea , and speak to the king if need were ; but the duke found it not convenient they should goe with him for some reasons , but went himselfe even that day to the king , as having accesse unto him at any time , waited in the chamber of presence the kings returne from dinner , and delivered this petition unto him in writing . the second petition of the three forraigne churches of kent delivered to the duke of soubise , beseeching his highnesse that he would be pleased to present it to the kings majesty . to the kings most excellent majesty . the humble petition of the forraigne churches of canterbury , sandwich and maidston : humbly shewing to your sacred majesty , that the time limited by the most reverend father in god the lord arch bishop of canterbury his grace , concerning the injuctions on sunday next expireth , and your majesty as yet hath not signified your pleasure upon their petition delivered about fifteen dayes past , your sacred majesty is most humbly prayed to give order that the execution of the said injunctions be respited and deferred untill their cause may be heard , as in all humility they desired : and as in duty bound , they will daily pray for your majesties long and prosperous reigne . my lord soubise delivered this petition unto the king , & desired his majesty to read it , which he did : the king answered him , je ne puis faire cela ; and when the duke said si vostre majeste ne le fait point l'execution seta rude & dure aux eglises : his majesty replyed , l'execution ne seta pas si rude qu'ils craignent , and many other words that passed in french betweene the king and the duke . so having taken his leave of the king , he told the deputies what had passed , who related it to the synod . the company seeing the king gave no answer at all , or at least not dearely to the petition of prorogation of time , untill his majesty had leasure to heare them ; and that the time approached , and that there was no appearance to have any other answer from the king , thought it convenient to send some of the company to my lord of canterbury ( who seemed over-swayed the king ) to know the kings minde and pleasure and his owne ( which was also the opinion of a councellour of state : ) the deputies therefore of the three forraigne churches in kent , whom it concerned primarily , by the advice and votes of the sinod , went to sir nathaniel brent vicar generall , and told him that my lord of canterbury gave them permission to goe to the king , which they had done and now came to him to know the kings pleasure and answer ; they told him besides that they had studied the case better since they were with my lord ( for they had kept the principall arguments in the reare ) and desired to speake to him againe , and to shew him some reasons which he had not seene as yet ; they told him also , that the time of the execution of the injunction was neere , to wit , the first of march ; that they could not returne to their churches at the appointed time , because they had not as yet the kings answer , and hoped that their churches might continue their accustomed order . sir nathaniel told them that he would speake to my lord about it , who was not so straight 〈◊〉 for a weeke or two . he went to my lord on some occasion and returned , told them they should doe well to goe to my lord either at whitehall or lambeth to know his pleasure concerning the time he would appoint to heare them . the deputies went to lambeth and expected his comming from the councell somewhat late , for there was a cry in the hall , hats off and lights , for my lords grace is at hand : where in the hall they met my lord , i.b. told him that his vicar generall had told them that his grace was content to heare them againe , and therefore they came to know his pleasure , desiring a time when they might be heard . he told them their motions did not please him , because they were not according to his judgement ; that he was full of businesse , and knew not when he should be at leisure ; but that sir nathaniel might pitch upon a probable time he might be at leasure , and so dismissed them . it might have beene returned to him , his judgement did not please them , because it was not according to their motion ; but he held his peace . so when the archbishop said here above mentioned , that their discipline and bishops were jure 〈◊〉 ; they might have answered him , that though bishops are indeed jure divino ; that is to say , ministers who are bishops are jure divino ; yet there is but one archbishop jure divino , who is christ , pet. . . named there the chiefe shepheard ; but though that was true , yet they did not use such tearmes , because they had no order , and durst not goe beyond the commission . the deputies sent word to the vicar generall my lords minde ; who esteemed saturday in the afternoone the fittest day . doctor primrose and i. b. went to the duke of 〈◊〉 that day and there dined , where they had much discourse together about that businesse ; and the said lord thought it were better not to goe at all there , had not the promise bin made to goe there . so i. b. went from thence by water to lambeth , where he found the other deputyes , and went together to my lord of 〈◊〉 house , where was sir nathaniel brent , according to his promise ; and where had beene a religious gentleman , who told my lord many things concerning his proceeding , and gave him wholesome counsell , and mollified him in some measure . my lord received the deputies courteously , and spake to them kindly ; but before he would enter into the businesse , he told them he had something to say to them ; to wit , that he had heard say , that they had reported , that he had said they had no ministery among them ; and secondly , that he was very harsh and would give them no hearing as indeed doctor primrose and j. b. had told to divers lords , how harsh and discourtious he shewed himselfe to the deputies , who came in the name of their congregations . j. b. who was the fore-man told my lord , that for the first they never heard from my lords mouth those words directly : and for the second , the words he used might be heard publikely , for there was but a curtaine drawne between them and the people that were there ; but my lord said he would not insist thereupon , they presented unto him the two papers containing the fundamentalls and reasons which he read , and said , as for the orders made by the counsell they might be changed , and all was to continue so long onely as the king was pleased ; and those reasons of state might be presented to the counsell . many things passed to and 〈◊〉 betweene my lord and the 〈◊〉 they had told him heretofore which is there omitted in part , that in case the injunctions were observed there would be a persecution in france , for they had heard that the cardinall richelieu should have said if a king , who is a protestant would not permit two disciplines in his kingdome , why should a king of france a papist permit two religions ; besides they had told him there were divers hundred papists converted by their ministry , at least . papists that came from the archdukes countrey , that had beene converted by their ministery in canterbury , and renounced popery in the space of ten yeers , they might have said a thousand in lesse then twenty yeers ; that in the french church in london there were at one time . papists that abjured popery ; that their congregations were beneficiall to the engish , especially poor ; that the congregation of the dutch in colchester who were . communicants in number , did imploy . english at work in and about colchester , and that they of canterbury and sandwich did set a great number of english at work : my lord kept the fundamentals and reasons and took out of his pocket the two injunctons , and read them , and said , he never commanded the second injunction about the receiving the english liturgy ( translated into french ) in their churches ; nay , he said it was impossible it could be done at that time appointed , namely , the first of march , especially in regard of the dutch translation , he never minded to tye the strangers to it , nor had given such order , but that the strangers should hold their owne liturgy ; and said , god forbid he should take away their liturgy or change their discipline , telling his vicar-generall that he was mistaken , and therefore changed the words of the injunction , as we shall see anon ; notwithstanding sir nathaniel brent could have shewed my lords hand to both the injunctions , and the order above mentioned commanding the two injunctions to be observed . but my lord said , as for the other injunction he would have it observed , namely , that the natives subjects to the kings majesty should be members of the parishes , and resort to them ; he would not have them to be mungrels ( which was a harsh and 〈◊〉 terme , who knowes what the word mungrell signifies , so that most princes of europe and their issue might be taxed by that phrase . ) it was told him that many went to the parishes , heard sermons , which might suffice , and that if there were a command , they desired that it might be a command without prohibition : he said , he would not change his injunction , and that would not hinder but that they might go sometimes to the forraigne churches ; and sir nathaniel brent spake to my lord in their behalfe , and asked him if it would not suffice that the natives went now and then to the communion , as once or twice a yeere : but my lord would not permit that , for he should finde an inconvenience in that kinde , as of those that put on the surplice once or twice a yeere . a proposition was made unto him by master miller , about the ministers of those forraigne churches that were english borne , whether they might continue in their charge . he answered , he would not disturbe those that were already in the ministry , but hereafter none should be admitted to be ministers in their congregations but those that were strangers &c. at last , the deputies requested two things of my lord : the one , that he would conceive a good opinion of them : the other , that he would be a mediator betweene them and the king ( it was the advice of the synod , for he had said . it was the kings will and command . ) he said , that he had a very good opinion of them , that they were honest and good men . and as for the second , he could not be an intercessour for them , because he was the man that had set this businesse on foot ; but if they would make a petition to him , he would tender it to his majesty . in fine , ready to dismisse them , he desired an uniformity in the church , asked the names of the ministers , wished the deputies as much good as the greatest friends they had ; prayed god to blesse their ministery and endeavours ; tooke his leave of them , and said , he would goe to service and serve god . the deputies had occasion to thanke god , being glad that the principall injunction was taken off , so were those of the synod and the duke of soubise , and my lord ambassadour , and some noble men of the court of the honourable privie councell . as for the deputies , they had occasion to rejoyce for their churches good , that the kalends of march were past ( which julius casar did not passe ) and they and the churches rejoyced , that the principall or moitie of the injunctions was taken away ; dimidium facti qui bene caepit habet , and dimidium plus toto : for the observation of that injunction would have given a deadly wound to the churches , and made a shipracke of them . qui venit hinc fluctus , fluctus supereminet omnes , posterior nono est undecimoque prior . so that a great number of the strangers would have beene indangered to have suffered shipracke , and compelled to save themselves on boords like to saint paul at malta among the barbarians . as the assembly rejoyced that one of the injunctions was taken away , so were they sorry that the other remained ; which being observed : would in time undermine the churches and blow them up . and concerning a petition mentioned by my lord about one degree , it was not thought fit to doe it , as being very prejudiciall to the churches , a thing that the deputies could not doe , not knowing the resolution of their churches , and whether they would submit and subject themselves and their posterity . so the deputies went to sir nathaniel brent , told him , they had beene long absent from their churches , and intended by gods grace to returne to them , thanking him for all his favours shewed towards them , praying him to continue them . in the meane time the synod thought it fit to send some of their company to thank divers persons for their good affections towards them , and paines taken for them : the deputie were doctor primrese president , john bulteel , and master timotheus with two elders , master lucie , and master l'amj , who went to the duke of soubise and thanked his highnesse for the paines he had taken for them , as being the prime man under god who had laboured the most , and most obtained for the churches , and desired him at his first occasion to thank the kings majesty for his royall bounty and favour towards their churches ; he took it very kindly , and promised them his help as much as lay in his power , and to goe to the king and thanke him , and to pray him to continue his royall favour towards the said churches , especially touching the execution of that part of the injunction , about the natives borne of the strangers and their children , that they might not be liable to the observation thereof : they went also to my lord joachimi ambassador of the estates of the united provinces ( with whom they dined ) and thanked him for his good counsell and advices ; he told them his affection was good , offered unto the churches all kind of good offices and services according to his power : they went to secretary cooke and thanked his honour for all the good offices he had done in their behalfe ; who answered , je n'ay rien fait que mon debuoir vous troumtez le roy fort gracious : they also thanked master weckerlin in the name of the three forraigne churches of kent , and john bulteel in especiall in his churches name , for his love and paines taken for them ; they were to thanke others who were absent from court , as my lord chamberlaine , and sir william st. ravi : the deputies of the churches of london did undertake and promise to thanke them at the returne of my lord chamberlaine and st. ravi , in the name of the churches of kent , and their owne : they met sir theodore mayerne knight , and the kings prime physician at court , and thanked him in like manner , &c. and j. b. thanked master burlamacht for his paines taken in the behalfe of their churches . meane while sir nathaniel brent sent to the deputies of kent to speak to them , who went to him ; he told them my lord was not satisfied with their answer , they were booted and ready to returne for kent , but he told them , they should doe well to speake to my lord at court , where they met sir nathaniel , who went to my lord with whom he was not long , because he went to the chappell to heare the sermon ; so he came to them as they were in the court , and told them my lord had no leisure to speak to them any more , but gave him a command to enjoyne them the observation of the injunction touching natives on the first day of april , which he told them openly in the court-yard , in the presence of his owne secretary , and of my lord's generall aparitor , ( whom he called as a witnesse thereof ) so seeing there was no meanes to have further audience of my lord , businesse creeping on him by the death of the lord treasurer that morning , they took their leave of him , and returned to london , where they related to the synod what had passed ; who counselled them that in no manner they should publish the injunction in their churches , namely , that the natives should resort unto the parishes where they dwell as absolute members of the congregations in the said parishes , because it tendeth to the destruction of the said churches , which they are bound to edisie ; telling them also that if the execution of the said injunction were harshly prosecuted , that they should certifie the coetus thereof , and they would speake to the duke of soubise , who would goe to the king and tell his majesty of it , that he might remedy it according to his royall promise , connselled them to goe home with expedition and follow their charges , march . . dayes so after thanksgiving to almighty god and mutuall imbracings of one another in taking their leaves , the synod brake up , and the deputies of kent returned to their houses , churches and charges , to the comfort of their churches and families , and preached on the lord's day to their congregation , with thanksgiving to god , to the edification and joy of their flocks . the churches of kent continued their ordinary course untill the moneth of april , and there was an intercourse of letters between some honourable friends at london and the ministers of canterbury , who hoped matters would goe well at last , and the injunction would dye of it selfe . but the vicar-generall having been at norwich , and given an injunction from my lord to the two forraigne churches , dutch and french , concerning the natives , that they were to resort to their parish churches ; the ministers and elders of the forraigne churches of canterbury and sandwich were cited to appeare before my lords commissioners in his consistory at canterbury on april . where they appeared ; where j. b. said that it was the first time that ever they were in that place , namely , in the consistory in that manner , the deane asked him whether he refused episcopall jurisdiction , whereunto he answered he desired him not to presse that question , they had appeared before my lord heretofore ; the deane told them that the injunction was to be published in their churches the next sabbath day by the ministers ; they desired to be excused , as being not their office to disperse or dissipate their stocks , but rather to unite and preserve them ; then the commissioners said , it might be done by the elders ; it was answered , that they answered in their names , they could not doe it , neither for the reason afore alleadged , neither was there any such circumstance in the injunction , that it should be published by ministers or elders ; then the deane said , it might be published by master somner or his sonne in the said churches , whereunto the deputies answered , that they desired not that also , although they could not hinder it ; the commissioners gave a charge to master somner to certifie the ministers of the parishes , that they might receive all those that would come to their parishes , being natives , and so departed . master sumner gave to the two elders of the two churches , the declaration of the injunction in this forme . decimo tertio die aprilis . coram venerabilibus viris dominis isaaco bargrave sacrae theo'ogiae professore decano ecclesiae ca hedralis & metropolicae christi cantuar. & thoma jackson sacrae theologiae professore ( inter alios ) commissarijs reverendissimi in christo 〈◊〉 ac domini domini gulielmi providentia divina cantuariensis archiepiscopi & in visitatione sua metropolitica constitutis & loco consistorij in ecclesia praedicta judicialiter & pro tribunali sedentibus ; venerabilibus viris dominis willielmo 〈◊〉 sacrae theologiae professore 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . & joanae jeffrey sacro etiam professore theologiae , eis tune & ibidem assistentibus & assidentibus presente me willielmo somner 〈◊〉 publico , &c. quibus die ac 〈◊〉 dicti venerabiles viri cemmissarij tradidcrunt mihi notario publice 〈◊〉 injunctiones 〈◊〉 reverendissimi cantuariensis archiepiscopi praedicti ecclesias gallicas & belgicas ( anglice the dutch or walloon congregations ) concernentes in praesentijs magistrorum joannis bulteel & philppi delme . ecclesiae gallica sive wallonensis infra civitatem cantuariensem existentis , & magistr : gaspari , van nierne ecclesiae belgicae 〈◊〉 sandwicum constitutae 〈◊〉 sive ministrorum ; 〈◊〉 non in 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 de bever & quintin galmar seniorum ( uti 〈◊〉 ) ecclesiae 〈◊〉 apud cantuarienses , ac in 〈◊〉 petri 〈◊〉 & 〈◊〉 rickeseys 〈◊〉 ( uti vocantur ) ecclesiae belgicae 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 : in quorum omnium praesentijs 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 publice dictis 〈◊〉 , per me notarium publicum ante dictum de mandato dictorum commissariorum ( quarum quidem tenor sequitur & est talis . the two injunctions of william laud archbishop of canterbury , concerning the dutch and walloon churches within his diocesse anno . that all the natives of the dutch and walloon congregations in his graces diocessa , are to resort to their severall parish churches of those parishes wherein they inhabit , to heare divine service and sermons , and performe all duties as parishoners required in that behalfe : . that the ministers and all others of the dutch or walloon congregations which are not natives , and borne subjects to the kings majesty , or any other strangers that shall come over to them , while they remaine strangers , may have and use their owne discipline as formerly they have done ; yet it is thought fit that the english liturgy should be translated into french and dutch for the better fitting of their children to the english government . dicti comissarij peremptorie & solemniter monuerunt dictos ministros sive presbiterios ac seniores dictarum respective ecclesiarum ad conformand . se & congregationes respective suas , quantum in eis est injunctionibus praedictis , & ne oblivioni tradatur vel errors sit abnoxium , decreverunt copias injunctionum praedictarum eis respective tradendas , & eodem die tradiderunt ac etiam decteverunt intimandum fore ministris omnibus & singulis respective ecclesiarum parochalium infra civitatem cantuar. & sandwich pro receptione , dictorum nativorum in ecclesijs suis tanquam parochianorum , &c. praesentibus tunc & ibidim praeter me notarium publicum antedictum venerabili viro domino edwar-master milite , willielmo hammon generoso willielmo somner juniore , & multis alsis , &c. concordat cum actis curiae facta examinatione per me willielmum somner notarium publicum . presently after some of the english ministers were very busie to publish in their churches the injunction touching the natives with threatnings by some of the churchwardens ; that they would present those that did absent themselves from the parishes , going from house to house to admonish the natives , yea to command them , and which is more to threaten them which was above their comission & more then was enjoyned them to do by the act of the commissionors , who charged them only to receive those that would come to their parishes . this kinde of proceeding made the church of canterbury to write to the caetus or two 〈◊〉 churches of london ; who returned an answer , that they should doe well to send deputies to london to conferre with them ; whereupon the church of canterbury intended to send but one minister and an elder ( whereas before they had sent both the ministers ) because they would not leave their church unfurnished of the ministery and preaching . so they chose john 〈◊〉 minister , and an elder . meane while the two ministers and others of the church of canterbury went to the major , who 〈◊〉 some of the aldermen were requested to make a petition in their behalfe to my lord of canterbury , shewing unto them the inconveniences would 〈◊〉 unto their towne and corporation , by the observation of the injunction , especially in regard of the poore natives , by whom they would be very much charged . the major and the aldermen were very much sensible of their case and of their owne , imbraced it with 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and promised to doe what lay in their power in their behalfe ; and petition my lord not at the strangers request , but as a thing which concerned themselves ; and not by petition in writing onely , but by some person gracious in my lords eyes whom they would imploy in that businesse . whilest these things were a doing , above all expectation and hope master somner came unto j. b at his house , told him he had a letter from my lords secretary , which he shewed him ; wherein he certified him that my lord had respited the observation of the injunction to the first of july , whereof he was glad ; for although quod differtur non 〈◊〉 , yet there was some hope that matters would goe better . this was related to the french congregation and the deputies did put off the voyage if not for altogether , yet at least for a time , hopeing that cloud would passe over , as ahanasius said of the persecution of julian the apostate emperour , and the churches might be at quiet . in the meane time , it was thought fit , and now the time and opportunity seemed to be , that the citie should make a petition to my lord in the churches behalf according to their proffer and promise . so some of them went to the major pressing him to win time , and that in the opinion of some my lord did as it were expect some such thing ; who promised to doe it with as great speed as possibly he could , and had confered with the major of sandwich who promised to concurre with him in a petition to my lord in that matter and manner , and to that end , and certes vis unita fortior . the major of canterbury sent the petition to my lord in these tearmes . to the most reverend father in god , the lord archbishop of canterbury his grace . the most humble petition of the major , and comminalty of canterbvry . tendring first all dutifull respect and thankes to your grace for at favours 〈◊〉 received , and in particular for your most 〈◊〉 incouragement , that upon all future just occasions , we should finde your grace as formerly willing to procure the good of our citie . we are now 〈◊〉 most humbly to intreat your grace to be advertized of these following inconveniences , which will 〈◊〉 fall upon our poore citie and upon the strangers themselves , by remitting them to our parish churches . first , a great number of poore will fall upon our parishes keeping , who are now 〈◊〉 without any burthen to our parishes , to the great charges of the 〈◊〉 both weekely and 〈◊〉 for the cloathing of them before 〈◊〉 ; which charge will fall especially upon those 〈◊〉 where there are all ready most poore and fewest men of abilitie to relieve them . nerher shall the poore strangers borne receive the usual helpe the remaining strangers being not able without the contribution of the natives to 〈◊〉 them as usually ; whereby they likewise will prove chargeable to the english . and 〈◊〉 of the poore strangers shall be forced to 〈◊〉 prove dangerous , the english poore being 〈◊〉 already to quarrell with them . and further , the restraint of the natives freed by these injunctions from the orders of the congregation , by the church and politicke government from many disorders will faile , and many inconveniences will 〈◊〉 , even in their way of trading , which we cannot prevent and so the government of those trades by rules of the congregation will have no force , to 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of the overthrowing of divers trades , in which no english man in our 〈◊〉 hath ever had knowledge or interest : and the congregation so 〈◊〉 will not be able to contribute to the poore cities 〈◊〉 , as 〈◊〉 in good measure they have usually done , in all such things as concerne his majesties 〈◊〉 . moreover , which is not the least many poore 〈◊〉 women boyes , and girles shall not be imployed as they are now in 〈◊〉 , winding , drawing and other workes , whereby to their great 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 reliefe they are now daily exercised . we are informed that their yearly expences about their 〈◊〉 their poore , is more 〈◊〉 one 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and three pounds , which 〈◊〉 we are not possibly able to raise 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 being already greatly oppressed with the 〈◊〉 of our poore . all which most humble manner we represent to your gracious consideration , as a matter of as great importance to this citie , as hath fallen out within the 〈◊〉 of man . most earnestly intreating your grace , that by your most gracious mediation , his majesty may be pleased to suffer as well the natives as the aliens to 〈◊〉 within the government of their owne congregation ; wherein your grace 〈◊〉 forever obleidge your graces servants and petitioners , alwayes to pray for your temporall and 〈◊〉 happinesse . this petition was sent by the major to one who was in favour with my lord and gave it him ; who said he would consider it and doe according as he found it fitting ; and a while after sent an answer to the major of canterburies petition who shewed it to the ministers of the french church , and at their request gave them permission to take a copie thereof which they did and returned him the originall . the superscription of the letter was in this forme . to my very loving friends , the major and the rest of his brethren of the citic or canterbury these . these were the contents . s. in christo . after my harty commendations &c. i lately received a petition from your selfe and your brethren , on the behalfe of the citie of canterbury , concerning the dutch and the walloon churches there . and first i must let you know , that there is not one particular thing mentioned in 〈◊〉 your letter or petition , on the behalfe of these strangers , which the ministers af those congregations ( when they were with me ) did not formerly 〈◊〉 ; and i doubt not but you have knowne from them , what answer they received from me , and that by order from the kings 〈◊〉 and the state : and therefore you cannot expect but that to the same thing you must receive againe the same answer ; yet because you should see i proceed not in this businesse , but no on warrantable 〈◊〉 , and that i am ready to doe you and the city as much respect as i promised ; i have againe in open counsell 〈◊〉 his majesty and the lords with that which you have written , and how farre it concernes the city in generall , as well as the strangers congregations and 〈◊〉 commanded to returne you this answer . first , the injunctions which i have made , concerning the strangers repairing to their severall parishes ( i meane such as are natives , and with such interpretation as i made to them when they were last with me ) must stand in force and be obeyed : as for the 〈◊〉 which you desire may be taken into consideration , you are to receive this answer to them . the first is , your feare that their poore will be cast upon you whereat you have too many of your owne : to this you must know , that the command of the state expresly is , that though they doe 〈◊〉 themselves to the english parishes , yet they shall contribute to their poore as they did before , and look as well to them in all respects at least so long a till some other sitting order can be taken ; and they must not look being come in strangers hither , to receive so much peace , and benefit by the state as they doe , and not conforme themselves in those things which are required of them , as all strangers doe in all other parts of 〈◊〉 . for the second that divers of their trades will fule which are now unheld by the rules of their congregations : that is grounded upon no reason at all for i hope the congregation doth not set rules to their severall 〈◊〉 while they are at church , nor make it any part of that service ; and for any other meetings to set rules to their trades or to doe any thing else about them , there is no injunction that restraynes them from ; neither need their resorting to their severall parishes any way hinder that : and whereas you adde that no english , man in your city hath ever had knowledge or interest in those trades , the lords like that worse then any thing else and have reason so to doe , for why should strangers come here and enjoy the peace of the kingdome , and eat the fat of the land , and not 〈◊〉 to teach such english as are apt and willing to learne the 〈◊〉 which they 〈◊〉 and practice . as for that which followes , namely that many poore english mome ; boyes and girles shall not be imployed as now they are in spinning winding ; drawing , and other worke whereon to their great benefit and 〈◊〉 they are now daily exercised : there 's as little reason for that as for the former , for since nothing in my injunctions need out any the least 〈◊〉 to their severall 〈◊〉 , all those women and children both may and must be 〈◊〉 by them , as they formerly were , for their trade cannot goe on without such to worke under them . and last of all , you say , if the congregation be 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , they will not be abe to contibute to the cities charge , as heretofore they have usually done , and in good measure upon all such occasions as concerne his 〈◊〉 service : there is no more reason for that then for any of the rest , for so long as they live in the city and 〈◊〉 their trades , both native and alien must ratably serve the king and the state ; and i hope the repairing of the natives to the english 〈◊〉 cannot take off any of 〈◊〉 duty , and to the city it is all one so the severall 〈◊〉 be payed , whether they be paid in a lump from the whole congregation , or part from the particular men which are 〈◊〉 , and partly from the congregation which remaines yet as aliens . in all these respects , though i have at your 〈◊〉 made knowne to his majesty and the lords , all that you have suggested in your petition ; yet a mediator for you 〈◊〉 cannot be in these particulars , which are so disserviceble both to church and state ; neither would i ever have made my injunctions if i had not formerly weighed them well , and found them sit to be put in practice . 〈◊〉 are therefore to let 〈◊〉 know that my injunctions must be 〈◊〉 , and that i shall goe 〈◊〉 on with them , and therefore doe hereby pray and require you , the 〈◊〉 and governours of that city to second all these things in all faire and due proceedings , for the 〈◊〉 of uniforme government , as well concerning those 〈◊〉 - 〈◊〉 as any other ; and to let them to know , that this is the resolution of the lords as well as of my selfe ; and i doubt not but that the strangers themselves may live they and their posterity to 〈◊〉 the state for this care taken of them : so i leave you all to the grace of god , and rest lambeth . may . . your very loving friend w. cant. this answer was communicated to the french congregation by their ministers , and in may the deputies presented themselves before the commissioners in the consistory , who were the deane and doctor 〈◊〉 , who told the deputies , namely , the ministers of the three forraigne churches . 〈◊〉 , sandwich and maidston , of the respit my lord did give till the first of july if they desired it ; who answered they desired it and a longer respit too if it might be obtained ; who 〈◊〉 they wished it might be in their power to doe it , and so dismissed them . the deputies wrote to the coetus in london how matters passed and thought it sitting to send some to london ; the coetus returned their answer that they were sorry to heare of my lord's resolution 〈◊〉 the 〈◊〉 of the churches in the sending of their 〈◊〉 and would be 〈◊〉 to give them their best counsell and help : the deputies of canterbury , sandwich & maidston went up to london , and so much the 〈◊〉 , because the time would be quickly expired ; the first day of july was at hand ; the king would goe shortly his progresse , and my lord of canterbury would after the tearme goe to his house of croydon ; so they went to the assembly of the french and dutch ministers and elders of london assembled together in coetus , and made a narration of what had passed ; the 〈◊〉 couched an 〈◊〉 these tearms : master 〈◊〉 in the name of the french 〈◊〉 of canterbury , that the major of the said towne had presented a petition unto my lord 〈◊〉 of canterbury in favour of the said church , unto the which he had received no favourable answer . on this relation advice hath been demanded of this company what order they shall take and how they shall proceed to 〈◊〉 the churches under covert of the tempest , that threatneth them ; whereupon it 〈◊〉 been found good , to communicate all that which is past in lord the duke of 〈◊〉 and to the lord 〈◊〉 knight , ambassador of the states of the united 〈◊〉 of the low 〈◊〉 and to intreat them to give their advice how they are to govern themselves in these extremities ; and to aske the said advice have been named mr. 〈◊〉 mr gasparus mr. primrose pastors , and master host and master 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 elders : who went to the said duke and lord , and they advised the deputies of kent to addresse themselves unto the king , and the said lord duke offered himselfe to represent unto the king whatsoever they found good and fitting : this relation being made to the 〈◊〉 by the deputies , it was thought fit that they should goe first to my lord of canterbury to give him a cleere interpretation concerning some 〈◊〉 of the petition which was presented unto him by the major of canterbury and to use such complements towards him as they shall judge fit , using in the meane time such generall termes without saying any thing to the prejudice of their churches . on the . of june , the deputies of kent were with my lord , there were divers waited to speak to him about businesse , j. 〈◊〉 . observed his time seeing my lord in a merry humour stept to him accompanied with the deputies my lord said he might well perceive he had much 〈◊〉 and he would hold him long ; who returned to my lord this answer that he would not hold him long , and contracted his intended speech in these 〈◊〉 . most reverend father in god ; we come to your grace tothank you most humbly for the favour you have shewed to our churches , in giving them 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ; we 〈◊〉 your grace to be 〈◊〉 to continue it , and permit them to enjoy those priviledges and 〈◊〉 which they have had hitherto under our most gracious soveraigne ; 〈◊〉 the which the families will be divided , the poore no , maintained , and the churches ruined . but he interrupted him in the midst of his 〈◊〉 , and said , he would not call back that which he had begun bat would goe forwards with it , that he would not put an heavier burden on them , then on the rest ; and that he would goe through all england if he lived but of necessity must begin with them . now because j. r. saw that he might not be long with my lord , he did contract his speech as brlesly as possible he could , and told him that in the petition which the major of canterbury had made to his grace there were two mistakings ; the one touching the trade amongst them as if no english man had knowledge or interrest in them ; whereas it was well knowne that they refused none to teach them the trades and that many had learned the trade and french tongue among them : the other mistake was the summe of 〈◊〉 l. which notwitstanding was 〈◊〉 l. which the church had expended on the poore of their congregation that yeere , and that sometimes they had spent l. a moneth yea and more . concerning the ponre , it was told him , it was 〈◊〉 they could be maintained if the the natives went to their 〈◊〉 ; because , besides the seizing , there were voluntary contributions the one at the church doo e at every meeting of the assembly to heare the sermons , whether on the lord's day or on the week dayes ; the other , extraodinary collections when the churches were in arrerages : he answered that the scripture made not mention of any contribution at the doore of the church and that there would and might be found another way ( whereas notwithstanding saint paul . for . . 〈◊〉 . speaks of collections for the saints upon the first day of the week and christ , mark . . luke 〈◊〉 . , . fate over against the creafury , and beheld how people cast mony into the creafury , it was cast in a chest , such a one as 〈◊〉 the priest caused to be made and lec as one commeth into the house of the lord where the mony was put in though to another end , kin. . . and a cartaine lame man lay daily at the gate of the temple which is called beautifull to aske almes of them that entred into the temple 〈◊〉 . . for none was to appeare before the lord empty , exod. . . these things might have been told my lord by them but they found it no 〈◊〉 to dispute . the deputies told my lord that the injunction would hinder the conversion of papists strangers , who would not come to their churches , seeing that baptisme would be wanting in the church ; he said , they might come as well as before , but they should not be 〈◊〉 for , there were english men enough ; if they came they should be conformable and as or baptisme that was all 〈◊〉 . master 〈◊〉 minister of the dutch church of 〈◊〉 told him , that there were many that went to the english church and communion ; he said , he would see what they would 〈◊〉 , and 〈◊〉 they would doe so or no . many passages were between my lord and the deputies ; he said 〈◊〉 was not made of sower leaven nor did he this 〈◊〉 envy or 〈◊〉 , but upon good consideration and grounds . he told the deputies he had given them respit till the 〈◊〉 of july of his free will and would not have them to 〈◊〉 he 〈◊〉 in the businesse , for he did meane to goe through 〈◊〉 with it ; 〈◊〉 he did it because they shauld not think they had not time enough given them , he would goe a faire way with them if they did as they should : and because there had been some mistakings , and they might know his 〈◊〉 and have the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 he would commit the businesse to no 〈◊〉 but leave it to his vicar-generals 〈◊〉 . john belteel told him the first day of july did approach ; he told him for feare of mistakes , he would have nothing done till sir 〈◊〉 brent's returne , were it till the last of august : after some discourse he spake to my lord concerning the first of iuly againe and againe , who answered , he was not so 〈◊〉 for a day , if sir nathaniel came not 〈◊〉 the last of september it should not goe forwards ; he replyed that that was not 〈◊〉 , for if master somner had no present order from him , he would put the injunction in execution , and durst not doe otherwise ; and therefore he desired his grace to commend master dell his secretary , to write a letter to master somner about that businesse and respit ; my lord commanded his secretary to doe it ; so the deputies taking their leaves of him , he said god blesse you . the deputies related unto the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 whereupon the company thought it fit that the deputies should returne to their 〈◊〉 , and there 〈◊〉 for the returne of 〈◊〉 nathaniel brent ; the deputies made a relation of all the passages hereto fore mentioned unto my lord the duke of soubise and my lord ambassidour , and some other lords , 〈◊〉 and gentlemen and so departed . our purpose is not to speak of the other forraigne churches in england 〈◊〉 of 〈◊〉 , the bishop of the 〈◊〉 speaking 〈◊〉 to the 〈◊〉 , saying it were 〈◊〉 their congregations should be 〈◊〉 then the church of england should 〈◊〉 its glory , and for the poore , who sent for them ; nor to speake of the congregations of london or others , but onely of the three forraigne of kent , which my lord primarily and principally did question and assault ; and who were like david's three worthies , who endured the greatest 〈◊〉 , stood in the gap , were in the front , received the blowes and bare the reproaches , and did what they could to save and deliver the churches from the 〈◊〉 and thraldome whereunto my lord intended to subject them : whereas the other churches were but in the reare , who although they were honourable worthies and mighty , and came to the 〈◊〉 yet 〈◊〉 attained not unto the first three , sam. . but to 〈◊〉 to the point , the deputies of kent took leave of the 〈◊〉 and returned home every one to his church and house . about that time j. 〈◊〉 received divers letters from divers learned men from beyond the seas , as from master de moulin , master polyander , master festus hommius , master bugnet , and others in french and in latin : wherein one deplores the condition of the forraigne churches , and 〈◊〉 the rigor wherewith they were troubled , and prayed god to remedy it by his holy 〈◊〉 , another , that god would dispose the heart of my lord arch-bishop to follow the wayes of wildnesse ; a third , that mens 〈◊〉 are in god's hand who turneth them as the rivers of waters , where and when he will ; balaam goeth with an intention to curse , but god turneth his words into blessings ; saint paul goeth to damas with bloody designes but god changeth him , and and of a persecutor maketh him an apostle a paster , and of a wolfe becomes a lambe : another writeth thus , 〈◊〉 vestrarum nove edicto non tantum pacem 〈◊〉 , 〈◊〉 & statum 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ex animo dolemus ; coe erum an nulla affulget spes tanti 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 : nos quidem sperare jubet 〈◊〉 clementia , & 〈◊〉 as vestra qua non desinet , omnem movere lapidem , ut deus optimus 〈◊〉 buic vestro 〈◊〉 clementer benedicat : others 〈◊〉 god that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the tempestuous winds and dangerous tempest to cause a shipwrack ; even he who hath appeased in some sort this tempest , will if he please let you enjoy an assured calme , and will chide the winds that have raised this 〈◊〉 me ; and such like things , and to the said purpose and end . so that the persecution was divulged in many parts of europe , and the forraigne churches had the good wishes and prayers of many beyond the seas for a good and happy issue ; 〈◊〉 , and of many godly ministers and others zealous persons in england ; the deputies telling divers of them that they did what they could , not onely for the good of their owne churches , but for the good of the english churches also , theirs being a leading case , for if their churches were blowne up , the english would in time sinke , and their pastors persecuted , if 〈◊〉 doe 〈◊〉 things in a greene tree , what shall be done in the dry ? if such things be done to the forraine churches who have patent priviledges and 〈◊〉 and promises from such great princes for themselves and their posterity , in regard of their discipline , exempted from the subjection of 〈◊〉 bishops and bishops ; what can the english churches expect subjected to the power and authority of prelates ? nay what can they not expect but multiplication of ceremonies innovation in rites introduction of popery , socinianisme , arminianisme , prophanation of the lords day , new canons and oathes ; persecution , banishment and branding suspension imprisonment and fining of those godly pastors that will not submit their necks to that slavish yoake of babylon , and drinke of the cup of abominations of that purple whore of rome , and inchantments of jezabel . a while after the 〈◊〉 of 〈◊〉 found it fitting to thinke of a fit time of a fast and presse it ; the occasions thereof being many , the afflictions of germany , hannaw being besiedged matters not going very wel in the low countries , skinsken-skonce taken by the 〈◊〉 a place of great importance and as it were the key to come into holland ; the neighbour churches in france , as 〈◊〉 and marke 〈◊〉 very much diminished if not dissipared ; and other occasions both in 〈◊〉 of others and especially of themselves in the feare , apprehension and appearance of the dissipation & dispersion , if not of the ruine of their churches . in particular there was an act made in the last synod at london in these tearmes ; it is lift to the discretion of the 〈◊〉 of the forraine churches of london to write betweene this and october to the particular churches , what they thinke concerning the indiction of a fast , and vpon the 〈◊〉 of the said 〈◊〉 the 〈◊〉 shall indict the said fast according to the plurality of votes gathered out of the letters of the said churches . my 〈◊〉 vicar-generall returning to canterbury caused the governours of the stranger churches of canterbury and sandwich to be cited to appeare on the saturday next in the consistory . some of them went to him , and desired they might not appeare in the consistory ; who told them that it was a thing that was to be done in publicke , and that the commissioners knew my lords resolution , so they went to the cathedrall at the appointed time . they found the commissioners descending downe the consistory the vicar-generall telling them he was content to declare unto them the charge he had from my lord not in the consistory but in the church where assembled divers persons about 〈◊〉 , and heard what was said unto them ; where he told them the sum of the charge , shewed them the publication of 〈◊〉 iniunction of those of norwich ( who had caused or permitted it already to be read in their churches , with more hafte then good speed ) that they might take a copy of it and cause such a one or the like to be published in their churches . among other things master sumner thought that it was to be published is it was at norwich and that was said to have beene done by the ministers . 〈◊〉 the ministers answered , that they desired as 〈◊〉 to be excused in that point , as being a thing contrary to their office ; for the duty of ministers is to endeavour the union , edification , and increase of their flockes ; and not to publish that which would tend to their discipation or 〈◊〉 : they added another reason that seeing the two ministers of canterbury were of the first degree of natives , there was no reason they should publish a thing against reason , yea nature ; 〈◊〉 declare their children were to goe to 〈◊〉 parish-churches , and not to the french church to heare their fathers 〈◊〉 . afterwards the deputies of 〈◊〉 came to canterbury and they with the 〈◊〉 of canterbury went to sir 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and told him , that seeing a declaration was of 〈◊〉 to be published they intended to have it done , they of sandwich by their 〈◊〉 , and 〈◊〉 of canterbury by master anthony 〈◊〉 and scribe to the politicke 〈◊〉 , seeing it could not be done 〈◊〉 some 〈◊〉 of the spirituall court ; and that not on the next sabbath day being a comman on day but on the lords day after : wherewith he was contented . then they desired of him , that they might not be more 〈◊〉 nor 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the officers in his absence , then the english were ; and that none should be molested before he had notice of it : he consented to it , and gave charge to master sumner to 〈◊〉 to it , who promised to observe that order . they requested also sir nathaniel to continue his favour towards them : he told them he had done what was in his 〈◊〉 for them and had spoken so much for them that my lord was awondered and in a manner 〈◊〉 , that he was more for the forraine 〈◊〉 then for his 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 : he had told his grace , that the ministers were his 〈◊〉 friends religious and peaceable men , and there were divers 〈◊〉 and gentlemen his honourable friends had spoken to him in their 〈◊〉 and he could doe no lesse ; his grace might doe what he pleased ; so they thanked him againe and tooke their leaves of him . immediately after master sumner sent them this injunction in these tearmes . vicesimo sexto septembris . coram venerabili 〈◊〉 domino 〈◊〉 brent milite , legum doctore , reverendissimi in christo patris ac domini domini guilielmi providentia divina cantuariensis archiepiscopi , &c. vicario in 〈◊〉 generali & coeteris ejus 〈◊〉 in ecclesia christi 〈◊〉 . hora 〈◊〉 convenientibus praesente willielmo somner notario publico , &c. qvibus die & loco ministris & 〈◊〉 tam ecclesia gallica five 〈◊〉 apud cantuariam nosiram , quam ecclesie 〈◊〉 apud 〈◊〉 vicos constitut . coram 〈◊〉 antedictis personarum 〈◊〉 . reverendissimi cantuariensis 〈◊〉 ulteriorem voluntatem in hoc negotio dictus vicarius 〈◊〉 generalis sequentia a domino archiepiscope ante dicto nuper 〈◊〉 eisdem ministris & senioribus 〈◊〉 & in mandatis dedit , viz. quod omnes & singuli alienigenae congregationum respective suarum , & ab eis infra primum gradum descendentes , ordires 〈◊〉 disciplinam , cateraque privilegia antehac congregationibus , respective 〈◊〉 authoritate regia impertita & concessa licite retineant . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 omnes 〈◊〉 congregationum suarum ab eisdem congregationibus discedant ecclesiis parochialibus & capellis paraeciarum , quas respective incolant sese conserentes liturgiae disciplina totique ecclesie anglicanae politiae ( quatenus se concernant ) cum cateris domini nostri regis subditis in omnibus 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 & conformantes . ita tamen quod sustentationi , ministrorum & egenorum dictarum suarum congregationum nihilominus remaneant 〈◊〉 : quibus fic declaratis dictus vicarius generalis 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , quod eadem omnia congregationibus respective suis cum ea quae 〈◊〉 poterit matura celeritate publicent seu publicars faciant , sei sos etiam eisdem submittant ac populum dictarum suarum congregationum quoad possunt consimilem 〈◊〉 praestare suadeant , & revendissimum dominum 〈◊〉 praedictum inde certificent seu certificari curent . praemissa omnia & singula ministro & 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 belgicae apud maidston 〈◊〉 in similibus ( vel fama teste ) communieant , intimantes ut 〈◊〉 in dicta ecclesia fiat , et sic intimatur eis cura & studio 〈◊〉 domini 〈◊〉 pro corum tuto 〈◊〉 & quieto progressu in occupationibus suis 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 eis per protectionem regiam ( si 〈◊〉 fuerit ) obtinendam , firmando 〈◊〉 commissarij eosdem ministros & seniores cum seria & 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ad obedientiam suam in hac parte alacriter exhibendam decedere permiserunt & dimiserunt . 〈◊〉 tunc & ibidem ( praeter not arium publicum antedictum ) henrico jenken . willielmo somner juniore , & thoma wilcoxon notarys publicis , & multis alijs testibus literatis , &c. conćordat cum originali willielmus somner registrarius . but what reason had the arch-bishop to make a division in many families and a divorce between the parents and children in the publike exercises of religion ? and what equity and justice was there to enjoyn yea compell them to contribute to the churches whereof they might be no members , to cause them to be of the english parishes , and contribute to forraigne churches , let the world judge ? after sir nathaniel's departure from canterbury , the company 〈◊〉 the declaration in french , according as they found it fitting omitting some things that were in the norwich declaration ; it was published by master anthony the notary on the lords day octob. . in the afternoon after sermon and prayer before the psalme sung in the french church , which is thus translated into english . beloved in the lord , 〈◊〉 are a 〈◊〉 that the worshipfull commissary , sir nathaniel 〈◊〉 with other commissioners of my lord of canterbury his grace , hath commanded in the name of the said lord arch-bishop , with approbation of his maiesty and of his most honourable privy-counsell to signifie unto you . that it is not his majesties intent , nor of the counsell of state to dissolve our congregations . and to that end his maiesty is content to permit that the natives of the first degree to continue members of our congregation as before ; but the natives in this church after the first descent , are enjoyned to obey my lord arch-bishops iniunction , which is to conforme themselves to the english discipline and 〈◊〉 , every one in his parish ; without inhibitting them not 〈◊〉 , but that they may resort sometimes to our assemblies . my lord arch bishop of 〈◊〉 grace , meanes notwithstanding that the 〈◊〉 natives shall continue to contribute to the maintainance of the 〈◊〉 and of the poore of the church for the subsisting thereof ; and 〈◊〉 to obtaine an 〈◊〉 from the 〈◊〉 if 〈◊〉 be , and they require it 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 them 〈◊〉 their manufactures against those that would trouble them by informations . all which is notified unto you , that none may pretend ignorance and thereby fall into inconveniences . now although the archbishop would make the world beleeve that what he did was by command of the king & state , yet it might easily appeare that he was the 〈◊〉 & primum mobile or all the designs . j. b. wrote a word or two to master gasparus , minister of the duth church of sandwich about some particular businesse , and gave him a touch what they had done about the declaration , deuring him to certifie him what they had done , and to send him their declaration , else they should be faine to give theirs alone to master sumner , and translated into 〈◊〉 according to his desire : who answered , that they had done at sandwich as had beene done at canterbury on the same day and the same manner , adding nothing nor taken any thing away , nor changed a word ; 〈◊〉 translated the declaration that was sent them into franch for a 〈◊〉 or modell into dutch ; thinking it was not needfull to write , having promised to publish it . so the declaration of the injunction was delivered in english to master sumner by two french elders , in the name of both the churches . some two moneths after , the churches subsisting in peace a small time , there were some 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 either ignorant or malictous , no great good wishers to the stranger churches , desirons to curry favour with my lord , or otherwise who might perhaps have a charge to learne whether the injunction was obeyed ; for doctor 〈◊〉 on one of the commissioners , read a letter to the ministers from the vicar generall , 〈◊〉 he wrote that my lord was infolmed that his injunction was not obeyed and therefore commandeo some of the dutch church of sandwich and of the french of canterburie to be cited to appeare in a 〈◊〉 manner in his consistory at canterbury and to have the deane and some prebends there present ; and if the relation were 〈◊〉 that the injunction was not observed nei her at sandwich , and much 〈◊〉 at canterbury that the ministers should be 〈◊〉 and the church 〈◊〉 shut up , &c. the two ministers of the french church told him that they were sorry that my lord was so 〈◊〉 in 〈◊〉 , and that he used such threa nings , as if they were 〈◊〉 or 〈◊〉 of any such consure , or that my lord had any such power and authority to doe any such thing to them , who had 〈◊〉 them 〈◊〉 that he would not 〈◊〉 with theirchurches but only with those that were natives and the kings subjects , and there was no more reason that they the ministers should be silenced or the elders 〈◊〉 , if those that were natives came to their church , no more then 〈◊〉 ministers should be silenced 〈◊〉 church , wardens censured , or the doors of churches shut up ( which was never seen nor executed ) because some of other 〈◊〉 came to their churches ; that the publication had been made openly in the 〈◊〉 on the lords day in the audience of the congregation , that the ministers were not guilty of their 〈◊〉 , who as sheep desired to heare the voyce of their old pastors , understanding better the french then the english tongue , divers of them besides living in parishes where were no sermons at all , the ministers whereof some could not preach at all , some would not or very rarely , and they might come as well to the french church as to any other parish that was not their owne , that it was not for them to present those that did not obey but the church wardens of the parishes where they dwelt were to doe it : that sir nathaniel brent had been entreated not to treat theirs worse then the english , that he had promised none should he presented before he had notice of it , that this informing of my lord by such malicious 〈◊〉 , who did it to ingratiate themselves with my lord , and my lord's facile credit to such rumours and his menaces with 〈◊〉 and ands were a great deale more then a presentment , and many other things that were said at that time with much eagernesse : the doctor told them he was sorry that matters went so , he was but a commissioner and servant to my lord , told them some passages that had happened between my lord and their cathedrallchurch . about the same time j. b. visited the major of the city , who had beene at landon and at lombeth with my lord , and enquired of him if my lord had made any 〈◊〉 of their church , who answered , that by occasion he spake of them , saving his patience was abused , which was conceived by the major to be said in regard of the injunction , and was thought by him that my lord had an a king tooth against them . in the meane time j. b. wrote to one of the court , relating what had happened , who speaking to s. c. about it , said he knew not what to say of it as for himselfe he 〈◊〉 the worst but hoped the best ; and in his letters a while after wrote that 〈◊〉 he nor others had heard any thing of the affaires , so that he hoped the churches should have a calme and serene ayre after some stormes and cloudy dayes past , or at least should gaine time 〈◊〉 . in the moneth of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . sir 〈◊〉 brent came to canterbury where he sent for the 〈◊〉 of the severall 〈◊〉 of the city 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of them if the injunction was observed and obeyed by the 〈◊〉 english that were of the second descent ; telling them that my lord had beene informed that it was not kept as it ought to be : most of them or all returned their answer , that it was obeyed as farre as they could perceive , that they that were of their parishes came to their churches : he asked one of the ministers if he would set his hand to that ; he said he would signe such a writing , if he required it , but it was not pressed . the french ministers were somewhat moved to see that there were so many misinformations , and that my lord should so easily beleeve every false rumour ; for except there were some promoters or pick-thankes in every church , who could know it ? one man could not be at one time in all the parishes to see ; and which is more , to know every stranger native ; to know the number in every parish , and to know whether they were there or no ; none could better informe my lord or sir nathaniel brent , then the ministers and churchwardens of the parishes and complained to sir nathaniel brent of it , who went to london , where he caused the stranger churches of london , french , dutch , and others , to appeare before him at bowe church ; but of that visitation we intend not to write . about the same time the congregation of sandwich was troubled by one of the ministers , who went to divers that were in his parish that were strangers by descent , but borne in england , and that of the first dedegree ; and told them , about a fortnight before easter , that they were to come to his communion according to my lords order and pleasure ; but master gasparus the minister and the elders of the dutch congregation sent , and part of them went to their houses , told them 〈◊〉 they were not bound to doe it , that there was no such order given by my lord , that those that were of the first degree were to goe to the dutch church and to the communion , and not commanded to goe 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 english church and communion , and need not feare his threatnings . a while after there were some supercilious and 〈◊〉 ministers and church-wardens in canterbury that dealt 〈◊〉 with some of the natives beyond the order and commission and did 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 natives in their parishes by menaces and threatnings ; among others the churchwardens of one of the parishes , in an imperious and threatning stile sent a note to the 〈◊〉 householders and masters of families of their parish . we hereby signifie , that we have 〈◊〉 you of the french and walloon congregation , and that are strangers inhabiting in our parish , whether lately come over , or of the first and second descent ; for this time to pay for the 〈◊〉 and adorning of our church , and necessary 〈◊〉 thereunto belonging the sum of five pounds ten shillings 〈◊〉 , which we desire you to 〈◊〉 among your selves , because you best know your owne estates , and say to us the churchwardens before next saturday 〈◊〉 at six of the clocke . and if this you neglect to doe , then we give you notice to appeare in the north chancell of our church next lords day , immediately after evening prayer , to see your selves sessed according to our discretions . on saturday night next we desire the names of all married persons in your congregation of the second descent , that are inhabitants in our parish , that we may take order for decent seats for them , as they shall signifie their estates and qualities to be . then we also entreat the names and ages of those unmarried in our parishes of the second descent , and whose children and servants they he ; to the end , we may take care of their due resort to our hurch , being 〈◊〉 and communicating there according as their severall age require . that those of sixteen yeers and upwards , that have not this easter time already communicated , prepare themselves to receive the blessed sacrament in our church next lords day , and so thrice in the yeere afterwards , as the canons of our church require , as they will avoyd 〈◊〉 to their ordinary for their neglect therein . we admonish friendly and entreat you that are parents and masters of families of the first and second descent , henceforth duly on the lord's day , halfe an houre before evening prayer , to send your men , children and 〈◊〉 , under sixteen , to be catechized according to the order of our church , as you your selves upon presentments will answer for their absences . april the . . but what the reason was that the first church-warden , or both , were more forward and strict then the rest of the towne , is not known , whether their blind zeale to uphold the ceremony of the english church or knew water would come to their mill by presentments , or would curry favour with my lord or were set on it by some of his followers , or shew their power and authority ( magistratus indicat virum ) and to make the parish know what they should expect of them in their office ; yet vana sine 〈◊〉 ira , it is good a curst cow hath short horns ; for a few dayes after there was an election of new church-wardens , the one of them hoped to continue in his office but whether the parish perceived he would be a busie body and intended to do some fine design , he was outed of his place , and another chosen in his stead ; so 〈◊〉 strangers of that parish , though threatned were not pressed to it nor presented , but had their 〈◊〉 est , and the other strangers also for the time . for the archbishop who had many irons in the fire , did not onely trouble the three forraign churches of kent , and the other forraign churches in 〈◊〉 , but did vex the english churches , advancing superstitious ceremonies and innovasions , by secret 〈◊〉 and open violent persecutions having a designe to doe the like in the english churches and regiments in the united provinces of the states generall . he had an intention to introduce it in ireland where he was 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 totum ( even when he was bishop of london ) having the lord deputy , counsell , bishops and clergy at his owne devotion : and as soon as he was arch-bishop , he began to put on his master-piece 〈◊〉 scotland , in imposing upon them a popish service book , the hellena of greece , and cause of all these controversies and fuell of this fire , who supposed his authority not surely setled , nor fully confirmed untill scotland were conformed ; but god raised the 〈◊〉 of that nation to oppose it with zeale , indignation and courage ; a woman dux foemina 〈◊〉 , leading the dance : whereupon they proclaimed them rebels and traytors and an army speedily raised to enforce them to obedience ( the 〈◊〉 popish clergy and papists , instigating the king to this warre , and contributing very largely , so that it might be called bellum episcopale and papale . ) this caused the religious and valiant scots to raise an army in their owne defence , and when the two armies were ready for a bloody encounter , god who is the lord of hosts and god of peace the stickler and umpire of both armies , did cast downe his warder ; whereupon a friendly pacification ensued to the joy 〈◊〉 both nations . but the archbishop of 〈◊〉 , did mightily 〈◊〉 against it as a dishonorable disgracefull and dis-advantagious peace to king and kingdome , caused the king to break his promise and to renew the warre imitating julian the cardinall , who 〈◊〉 ladislaus king of hungarie to breake the 〈◊〉 with amurath the turkish ottaman , fought a battell with that emperour , and lost his army and life , for both the 〈◊〉 king and that popish legat jnlian were slaine . the king called a parliament to have supplies towards the maintainance of that warre , which by the jealousies and feares of the arch-bishop and such 〈◊〉 , was dissolved to the amazement and griefe of the subjects : but god who turneth all to the good of his children , turned that dissolution to the benefit and safety of the kingdome , so that england might say with themistocles , my children , we had been undone if we had not 〈◊〉 undone : for had that parliament continued , it had in all appearance afforded twelve subsidies which would have fomented that unnaturall warre , and in 〈◊〉 would have made a 〈◊〉 quarrell , though otherwise then the parliament did intend : and that parliament in all likelihood would have been contented with a superficiall reformation of the service-book of prayers , of the civill and commission court , of the exorbitancy of bishops , of the irregularity of the star-chamber &c. as luther at the beginning intended onely to cry downe the base sale of indulgences and 〈◊〉 of pardons and goe noe farther . now the scots seeing the precedent parliament 〈◊〉 , the kings eare stopped , he could , he would not heare any petition , from them ; entred this kingdome with a strong army as farre as newcastle , not with a sword and trowall , but with a sword and a petition ; not pressing on the army , though having opportunity and advantage , publishing their declaration , and sending their petition to his majesty for justice in their innocent cause against their violent enemies : the king , whose heart was in the hand of god as the rivers of water , to turne it which way he pleased , embraceth and entertaineth good counsell at york , where a treaty was agreed and a cessation of arms , and a 〈◊〉 called , which may be named a healing parliament , a parliament which worketh wonders . in this parliament the archbishop of canterbury was impeached of high treason , and sent to the tower ; to whom might be said that which was spoken to stephen gardiner bishop of winchester coopt up in the tower in king edward the sixth his dayes , by the religious dutchesse of suffocke ; it is merry with lambs when the wolfe is shut 〈◊〉 . the archbishop had a long time to repent , had his grace had the grace to doe it ; he was not like sir thomas palmer who on the 〈◊〉 on tower-hill ( where he suffered in queene maries dayes ) thanked god that he had caused him to learne more in one little darke corner of that tower , then ever he learned by any travell . the archbishop did not confesse his sinne as achan ( who troubled all israel ) did to 〈◊〉 and gave glory to god : he was according to his 〈◊〉 beheaded the axe making a divorce betweene his head and body 〈◊〉 , and by the just judgement of god who hath occasioned a divoce betweene the king the head and his faithfull subjects the body . a yong martyr at the stake 〈◊〉 , and said , 〈◊〉 of god shine upon me ; and immediately it shone out of a darke cloud , at the 〈◊〉 of this yong 〈◊〉 , that the 〈◊〉 was constrained to looke another way : but here , immediately after the 〈◊〉 of the 〈◊〉 and death of this old impostor and traytor the 〈◊〉 did shine , the curtaine of the clouds drawne open and the sonne of god the saviour of the world seemed to be pleased with that act of justice , but god's justice on offenders goes nor alwayes in the 〈◊〉 path nor the same pace ; sometimes the guest in the inne goes quietly to bed , before the reckoning for his supper is brought to him to discharge , others pay it before they goe to bed . 〈◊〉 who dyed exemplary a strange death , his paines , saith austin , encreaseth in hell , according as his 〈◊〉 encreased on earth , sed nolo 〈◊〉 esse , we will not enter into gods private closet , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or dive into his privy . counsell : lackeys that hold their masten horses before the pallace of justice , are not to dispute of the causes and sentences of judgement . austin saith , misericordia dei inter pontem & 〈◊〉 : my friend judge not me , i judge not thee ; betwixt the stirrop and the ground , 〈◊〉 i askt , 〈◊〉 i found . so might the arch-bishop find 〈◊〉 the axe and the block . howsoever , he a tumbling and a stumbling block is taken out of the way , and removed from troubling the state and the church : and we leave him to his lord , master and judge , before whom he stands or fals . april . . imprimatur james cranford . finis . errata . page line 〈◊〉 read 〈◊〉 . l. 〈◊〉 r. 〈◊〉 p. l. major bourmouth r. major and bourmouth . p. l. 〈◊〉 r. 〈◊〉 . p. l. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 majesty . p. l. 〈◊〉 r. 〈◊〉 p. l . 〈◊〉 r. 〈◊〉 . p. l. 〈◊〉 . r. 〈◊〉 p. l. seizing r. 〈◊〉 . p. l. . 〈◊〉 r. 〈◊〉 . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a e- e. registro curiae com . archiepiscopaliscantuar . extract . an answer without a question, or, the late schismatical petition for a diabolicall toleration of seuerall religions expovnded being presented to the juncto at westminster, august , by colonel pride and lievtenant colonel goffe and others by the appointment of the lord fairfax their general : with some observations upon the mistery of their iniquity, and the juncto's answer thereunto / written by that reverend divine, doctor holdisworth ... holdsworth, richard, - . this text is an enriched version of the tcp digital transcription a of text r in the english short title catalog (wing h ). textual changes and metadata enrichments aim at making the text more computationally tractable, easier to read, and suitable for network-based collaborative curation by amateur and professional end users from many walks of life. the text has been tokenized and linguistically annotated with morphadorner. the annotation includes standard spellings that support the display of a text in a standardized format that preserves archaic forms ('loveth', 'seekest'). textual changes aim at restoring the text the author or stationer meant to publish. this text has not been fully proofread approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. earlyprint project evanston,il, notre dame, in, st. louis, mo a wing h estc r ocm this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) an answer without a question, or, the late schismatical petition for a diabolicall toleration of seuerall religions expovnded being presented to the juncto at westminster, august , by colonel pride and lievtenant colonel goffe and others by the appointment of the lord fairfax their general : with some observations upon the mistery of their iniquity, and the juncto's answer thereunto / written by that reverend divine, doctor holdisworth ... holdsworth, richard, - . p. [s.n.], london printed : . reproduction of original in the university of illinois (urbana-champaign campus). library. eng pride, thomas, d. . religious tolerance -- church of england. schism. great britain -- church history -- th century. a r (wing h ). civilwar no an answer without a question: or, the late schismatical petition for a diabolicall toleration of seuerall religions expovnded. being present holdsworth, richard a this text has no known defects that were recorded as gap elements at the time of transcription. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - spi global keyed and coded from proquest page images - sarah allison sampled and proofread - sarah allison text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion an answer without a question : or , the late schismatical petition for a diabolicall toleration of seuerall religions expovnded . being presented to the juncto at westminster , august . . by colonel pride , and lievtenant colonel goffe , and others ; by the appointment of the lord fairfax their general . with some observations upon the mistery of their iniquity ; and the juncto's answer thereto . written by that reverend divine , doctor holdisworth , a little before his death ; and by him desired to be brought to publick view . london , printed in the blessed yeer of the admission of the turkish alcaron into this kingdom , . an ansvver without a question : or , the late schismatical petition expounded . when i first lookt upon the simply prophane title of that impious petition which the two-horn'd beast presented to the seven-headed monster at westminster , i could do no less then deride their simplicity , and condemn their insufferable demand for a diabolical toleration : certainly it was penned by that pragmatical fellow , colonel pride the devils secretary , who being diserted by the other six deadly sins ( who are gone with cromwel ) in a melancholy , proceeding from a cholerick rather then a suspicious humour , wrote this presumptious and damnable command , disguising it with the hackney roabes of a petition , and leading tom indifferent by the nose , let him see it through his fingers , who , poor fool ( being used to it ) according to his breeding , signed it : but to speak truth , fairfax that necessary evil was a fool , and pride that nominal and natural devil , proved himself a knave : the one for not looking on it but with another mans spectacles ; the other for cheating him and the world by his hypocritically humble petition , and pretended spirit of faith and supplication : but he doth not only seek to cheat men , but to mock god , he would put a trick upon his divine majesty , by fathering that upon him , which he never intended , as that the victory ( if they had one ) was given by god to them in ireland , as the fruit of that faith & supplication which god hath powred forth on the hearts of the people , to the bringing down the common enemy , &c. when it is evident , that whatever they have done since these wars , hath proceeded from our sins as the causa sine qua non , and not from their righteousness : i confess they be gods servants , but no otherwise then nebuchadnezzar was , to punish the israelites , and then god will punish him : but how impudently they persevere in their prophane expressions ! taking the lords name in vain , by dissembling that they fight under his banner , and that by the same power and presence that hath made bare his arm in the late victory , wickedly intimating that god fought for them and their ioshuah at dublin , they tender to this conventicle their annexed proposals as full of heresie and blasphemy as this exordium is of hypocrisie . first they condemne those which sometimes they hold infallible , of a crime , in making ordinances of parliament ( which indeed were the best that ever they made ) whereby many conscientious people are much molested , &c. meaning that by those ordinances sectaries & hereticks , whom they term conscientious people , were hindered from dispersing their damnable tenents : but see how they sport with god , engaging him in every business , that the spirit of christ flowing forth in his servants for the declaring his name in the nation , may not be suppressed , but receive all due encouragement : what fair pretences these impostures have ? such as would deceive the very elect if it were possible : but their actions are so contrary to their expressions , that any one may perceive they make heaven their pander , earth their bawdy-house , and the devil their servant , who hath endeavoured such a toleration in many kingdoms , but could never prevail till now he found how devoted the whore of england was to him , he hath gotten what he lookt for , which makes him not doubt of good success : for having once sowed this seed , he shall ever after have a great crop , besides he is in hope that these his servants by his help , may bring other countries to it in a yeer or two , which he in almost two thousand yeers could not do : but now to their second proposal . secondly , and because we are sensible , that through the subtilty of sathan , &c. surely the devil gave them leave to abuse him , or else they durst not be so dis-obediently wicked as to speak against their own father : but if they displease him in these , they please him in the following lines : and make the worst of it , they do but break his head , and presently give him a plaister far better then a mountebancks balsom , which comes in just as the devil would have it , we therefore from our hearts do humbly declare , that it is not our meaning , that the liberty before desired by us should extend to the toleration of popery , prelacy , the book of common-prayer , &c. this reconciles the devil unto them , for now he finds that all their intentions , words , and actions , tend to the exaltation of his kingdom : for although popery be excluded , yet he is fully recompenced in the abolishing of prelacy and uniformity : besides , one heresie is more profitable to him then a thousand papistical fopperies : for he will suddenly bring in as many heresies as houses , and as many opinions as there be people : to adde to the number , he hath got leave , that a servant of his , a saint of the last edition , should translate that academy of heresies , the turkish alcoran , which in the dayes of queen elizabeth , king james , and king charls of blessed memory , was treason in any one to transport hither , much less translate : and that it might be more vendible and acceptable , all the gross absurdities are left out , as a learned and holy man of this kingdom hath observed . the turkish alcaron saith he is abroad , but that the reader may not be abused , let him know , that all the most gross , absurd , ridiculous blasphemies , and impossible fictions which were wont to make that wicked volumn justly odious to the world , are left out in the english translation ; for my part i know not how to construe it , but as done in too much favour to the mahumetan mis-religion : the pretence of the error must be this , the english translator follows the version of a frenchman , too much it seems interested in the turkish court , for being employed from the french king as his agent at constantinople , was likewise re-employed by the turk into france , and taking upon him to translate this worthy work as he calls it , out of the arabick , thought fit ( for what ends he knew best ) to take the best , and leave the worst : know this reader , and resolve that thou canst not enough hate that pack of mahumetan fopperies , which chiefly aime at the disparagement of thy saviour , and the de-crying of the blessed trinity . thus far the observator gives his censure of the alcaron : now i will leave this to the impartial reader to judge what a medly of religions we shall have ; amsterdam must be beholding to us , as we have been formerly to them , for new opinions : we shall be as much cryed up for rarieties of religion , as the french-men for fashions ; as for the socinians , nistorians , arrians , &c. they will look like old fashion dublets : we must have the german anabaptist , the scottish presbyter , and the english independent , the epitomy of heresie . but now they stop up this gappe of iniquity with some pretended spriggs of righteousness : viz. we further desire , that through your care and zeal , all open acts of prophaness , as drunkenness , swearing , vncleanness , &c. be vigorously proceeded against and punisht in all persons whatsoever . but this they do for their profit and recreation , and not out of any godly principle , for by this , the encrease of the rich mens sins will be the augmentation of the saints wealth ; and the misdemeanours of the poor , will be the recreation of the rich ; so that as heretofore they have prospered by the devils help , by their own wickedness , they shall hereafter grow rich by the sins of the people . now that they may seem to be as merciful as severe , they desire that which the other dare not deny , and with their accustomed prophaness thus go on , that upon the sence of this great mercy lately received from god , your hearts will be moved to extend your favour so far as may stand with the safety of this present government , to those who have formerly served you , &c. still they reiterate monkes lie , the great victory that the annals of the saints boasts of in ireland , and therefore as a manifestation of their joy , they should set free the spirit of contradiction , lilburn and his bastards the levellers , which i wish they may do , that those firebrands may burn up all the blocks and loggerheads of the three kingdoms : but i believe foolish jack presbyter may wait long enough for this day of deliverance ; for they mean ( by those that have formerly served them ) none but the generation of vipers the levellers : but these drops of mercy end in a showre of cruelty , for after they have pleaded for their brethren in iniquity , they furiously demand , that for the future , all disturbers of the publick peace be vigorously proceeded against : this thundering sentence is like a pedagogues menaces , you shall be whipt if you do so any more : but i dare swear , if jack lilburn and his confederates once get loose , they will not fear to play truant , and perhaps before christmas wil shut their masters out of the school , and vigorously proceed against them , as the disturbers of the publick peace : but now ( that they may be the better thought of by the communalty ) they like publick persons desire , that speedy considerations may be had of those great oppressions which the people of this nation groan under by reason of the multiplicity of unnecessary laws , &c. this were a good request if cordial , especially if they would stand to the performance of it : for first , all those unnecessary waste papers , acts and ordinances made by this heretical parliament , should be re-called , and then these catterpillers of the kingdom ( which be the greatest oppressors that ever people groaned under ) should be taken away . but now i come to the junctoes answer . the officers after the reading of the same , were called in , and master speaker in the name of the house gave them thanks , and in particular for the petition . they durst not do otherwise : i le undertake if they had demanded five of the most innocent in the house to be delivered to them to suffer condign punishment , they should have them with all their hearts ; and therefore in such a thing as this is , they must needs consent ; for they would if they durst , long before this , have voted not only diversity of religions , but variety of gods , and plurality of wives . thus they combine with hell to dis-enthrone the king of heaven , as they have done their own : nor ever will they quiet be , untill with lucifer , they be flung down to hell . finis . toleration with its principal objections fully confuted, or, an answer to a book intituled, sions groans for her distressed, &c. offered to the kings majesty, parliament, and people wherein is pretended to be proved by scripture, reason, and authority of fifteen ancients, that equal protection under different perswasions is the undoubted right of christian liberty, but, hereby confuted : wherein the power and proceedings of the kings majesty and the church are vindicated / by h.s. h. s. (henry savage), ?- . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing s estc r ocm this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) toleration with its principal objections fully confuted, or, an answer to a book intituled, sions groans for her distressed, &c. offered to the kings majesty, parliament, and people wherein is pretended to be proved by scripture, reason, and authority of fifteen ancients, that equal protection under different perswasions is the undoubted right of christian liberty, but, hereby confuted : wherein the power and proceedings of the kings majesty and the church are vindicated / by h.s. h. s. (henry savage), ?- . [ ], , [ ] p. printed for h.r., london : . errata: p. 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instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng religious tolerance -- great britain. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - apex covantage keyed and coded from proquest page images - john latta sampled and proofread - john latta text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion toleration with its principal objections fully confuted . or an answer to a book entituled , sions groans for her distressed , &c. offered to the kings majesty , parliament , and people . wherein is pretended to be proved by scripture , reason , and authority of fifteen ancients , that equal protection under different perswasions , is the undoubted right of christian liberty . but hereby confuted , wherein the power and proceedings of the kings majesty and the church are vindicated . by h. s. d. d. chapl. to his majesty in ordinary . pet. . , , . but there were false prophets among the people , as there shall be false teachers among you — — — by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of . jude . these filthy dreamers defile the flesh , despise dominion , and speak evil of dignities . jude . these are murmurers , complainers . jude . these be they who separate themselves , sensual , having not the spirit . london , printed for h. r. and are to be sold at the sign of the three pigeons in st. paul's church-yard . . imprimatur . geo. stradling s. t. p. rev. in christo pat. d. gilb. episc . lond. a sac. domest . ex aed . sab. , feb. . for colonel r. atkins , one of the deputy lieutenants of the county of gloucester . sir , i have perused the pamphlet you left at my lodging , and [ according to your desire grounded upon the consideration of the advantages , which seditious persons suck , in things of this nature , from the silence of the orthodox ] given you my sense of it . which task [ if it prove satisfactory to any , and particularly to render that friend of yours , and of your most accomplisht lady's , steddy , who is yet balancing in her resolutions ] i shall put upon the account of favours done to , sir , your humble servant h. s. the contents . sect. . the events of these times the same with those after the passion of christ : only those were meerly eventual , these consequential . three churches in three persons of one house . the golden rule of our saviour wrested by our adversaries . fears and jealousies , like those that caused the war , couseless . sect. . their epistle dated the eighth day of the third moneth . the vanity of such date evidenced in answer to three queries . . what the moneths in scripture were ? . by what names they were called . . when they began ? and herein . what was the first moneth ? . when was the first day of that moneth ? what the rabbies amongst these men understand by the first month ? their affectation of singularity . sect. . how cheap the shedding of mens bloud was to them , which now they would have prevented towards themselves . they would have none but arbitrary government . of all , they dislike kingly most . what is meant by the harlot in the apocalypse , which they would have understood of the pope only . simon magus the deceiver . those that work in his vertue and power , antichrists . the harlot like a bird of prey . the men of this generation compared to the cast of sacres , that made the eagle their quarry . the pope and they meet in the antipodes . the history of stork , stubner , and muntzer , ring-leaders of the fanaticks . their practises to deceive . that they are antichristian . their sacriledge , and their pretext for it . sect. . the use of musick in churches . commanded in scriture in every thing that tends to edification . musical instruments , whether wind or stringed , and chromatick musick allowable , not typical . those that are against the use of it under the new testament , would have it to be they know not what themselves . and if any thing , it is what we hold it to be . sect. . vestments , distinctions of persons serving and of services under the gospel allowed by the law of moses , and of nature . no vestments but vices reprehended in the heathen in the new testament . the druides sacrificed not only in white , but under oaks , which by them were had in veneration , and which the men of this generation seem to allow of , in as much as upon all their crowns and scepters , which they wore and bore , they placed the acorn instead of the crosse , a figure which the devil cannot abide . of happy presage to us . they confute themselves by condemning of us . and in justifying themselves they justifie us a fortiori . nothing but order and decency in our ceremonies . sect. . bishops . timothy and titus were bishops , so were the angels of the seven churches in the apocalypse , in the judgement of old doctor reynolds , doctor usher , and grotius . how the bishops resemble the high priests ? and the whole frame of church-government answers to the like order and distinction under the old testament . a scheme thereof drawn by bishop andrews . the ministers of the new testament do succeed to priests and levites , as the lords day does to the sahbath . the lords prayer contains not only ancient forms in use among the jews , but also the very design of the sacrifices under the law. the comparison made . the lords prayer the first liturgy . the jurisdiction of the bishops proved . . as to their power , . as to the distribution of their power : and both out of the new testament . their right of sitting in parliament asserted . sect. . of churches . the lawfulnesse of them proved from the example of primitive christians in the new testament . . their conveniency proved , . in respect of their capacity for the diocesse and parishes . . in respect of their scituation in relation to the diocesse and parishes . . in respect of their scituation of east and west . christians anciently adored towards the east . of the church at richlieu in france , whose altar stands at the west-end . of covent-garden church in london . . convenient for the scituation of parts within themselves . they are naves inversae . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in them , what ? some built with a single crosse , some with a double , and why ? the mark in ezekiel . . was the crosse , and that proved not only from the figure of the letter tau , which was anciently a crosse , but also that in all probability it must be so , though it be , set a mark , or mark a mark , and no more in our translation . the necessity of churches proved . no stumbling-block to the jews or gentiles . sect. . how they slander the good laws of the kindome . the same thing they impute to us , is applicable to themselves . the harlot in the apocalypse why so called ? the integral parts of antichrist . their fury and hypocrisy parallel d by those in france . english scottizing , &c. rebellion under pretence of religion unwarrantable . sect. . of magistrates . their power is of god , and how ? religion the foundation of all government , proved by several arguments . answer , to their arguments of receiving the alcoran , and becoming papists in some cases . a threefold book put into magistrates hands . an errour in government , which is accidental makes not void his power . their second argument answered , their third argument answered , their fourth answered , their fifth answered . what power the church hath to decree rites and ceremonies . their argument taken from the ceasing of the cross of christ answered . their argument from the example of gallio answered . sect. . the second part of their proposition answered , viz. that the magist●●e hath no power in gods worship as he is a christian . the magistrates called gods anointed ones . aphorism of k. james against too much severity . force to be used . of the apostles delivering over unto satan . of dividing the inheritance and ridding the temple . sect. . cor. . . expounded . mat. . . expounded . pet. . , . exponnded . distinction of powers . episcopus puerorum , what pragmatica sanctio , imperium supra imperium , and imperium ab imperio avulsum , what ? the greatest domineering power is in the men of this generation . the execrable fact of schucker the disciple of melchior rinchius , who cut off his brothers head by inspiration . sect. . that place of mat. . let both grow together till the harvest , expounded and justified both as it notes the event of gods providence , and as it notes the duty of the civil magistrate . sect. . their argument taken from the fallibility of magistrates answered . their argument from the no such need of magistrates now as under the old testam●●● answered . a threefold judgement of the church . their argument taken from mistakes in holland , and from fallibility of councils answered . sect. . their argument taken from the royal law of whatsoever ye would that men should do unto you , &c. answered . persecution in scripture-sense what ? most convenient that all things be determined by laws . lex talionis necessary in every good body of laws . the temple of the graces how set ? something of necessity must be left to the bosome of the judge . private men know not what they would be , should they come to govern . sect. . christian prudence in a magistrate a supposition of theirs answered . in what cases the civil sword may capitally punish , proved out of the law. and that it hinders not the conversion of a sinner . that magistrates have the same power under the new testament , as they under the old had , proved out of scripture . the question why idolatry and blasphemy are punished with death , and not cursing of father or mother , man-stealing , adultery , and sabbath-breaking ? answered . their argument taken from the advantages that the jews had in judging of causes , answered . the argument taken from the different dispensations of the law and the gospel answered . that of cor. . . expounded . judaei & caelicolae law made against them . their argument taken from toleration in other places answered . pragmatica sanctio , what ? the censure of the sorbon against the temporal power of the pope . the committing of reformation to pope or people an errour . liberty makes not for the security of princes . the carriage of jeroboam parallel'd in our days , they urge it against us , but it makes against themselves . sect. . liberty granted by the kings declaration from bredah answered . argument taken from dr. taylor , now lord bishop of down and conner answered . our adversaries abuse him in making their authours separatists from themselves , &c. the . persecutions in the first . years . persecution otherwise taken in the scripture then in the law. how , imposing , and lording , &c. came in with the train and retinue of antichrist , and how not ? humane laws bind the conscience in themselves , not for themselves . severe laws made against hereticks , and what they were . king james his embassy to the states of holland touching vorstius . moderation of the church of england touching things disputable of toleration in germany , savoy , polonia , roan . who the first preachers of force and violence ? of begging fryars , &c. of the lollarots . spiritual drunkenness worse then corporal . the greatest drunkards where greatest liberty of opinion . disputations seldome produce good effects , and why ? the dew of hermon which fell upon the hill of sion . sect. . in the epistle to the reader , they compare these times to that of our saviours passion , wherein the same things , they say , are fallen out , which our saviour foretold should come to passe after his passion , viz. that the father hath been divided against the son , and the son against the father , three against two , and two against three , even a mans soes have been they of his own houshold : and it is very true that they say herein , namely , that the same things have fallen out now , as then , but with this difference , viz. that those divisions which were predicted by our saviour to come to passe after his death were meerly eventual as receiving , no causality or real influx from the passion of our saviour , whose legacy to his church was peace and unity , given by his testament , and sealed with his blood : whereas these divisions are not ●●erly eventual , but consequential too , necessarily following , as an effect does its caus● , 〈…〉 the r●moval of the impediment . for it hath been long ago cleared up to the world , that these things had b●en brewing above threescore years before they came to passe , but never ripe for execution till the passion , or the captivity of the king : whereupon the foundations were cast down , and the sinews of government broken 〈◊〉 once removed out of the way , then did that shew it self openly , 〈…〉 in his 〈◊〉 an●m●rum observes to have been practised privately before , viz. the sons excommunicating the father , and the father the sons : lastly , one son excommunicating the other , till three churches were found in three persons of one house , if it be not a solaecismeso to speak . and truly , to ●se their own words , he is a stronger in this our israel , that hath not seen th●se things . and whereas for their pretence , they alledge the golden rule of our saviour , viz. all things whatsoever ye would that men should do unto you , the same do ye also unto them : our saviour never intended hereby to loosen the reins of government , and to let them lye upon the necks of those that are like horse or mule that have no understanding , whose mouths must be held with the bit and bridle of the law ; but this he would have to be understood of a well governed will , subjected to right reason : otherwise a criminal at the bar might say to the judge , my lord [ nay he must call him sirra too ] you passe sentence of condemnation upon me , and therefore i suppose you willing , according to our saviours rule , that i passe the same upon you : let us therefore change places for a while , and so we shall both , in three dayes , take our turnes at tiburn , or else pardon one the other for what is past , and give mutual liberty to do what we please for the time to come , and so not only become the sons of the free woman , but be freed from that bondage , which those of the bond-woman would bring us into [ it is the very metapho● which they here pursue ] which if the judge refuses [ and he is mad if he does not ] then does he [ in the sense of the authors ] offer violence to the conscience of the offenders , as hereafter will appear . and least this violence and oppression should terminate in the bloud of those , which are dear to god , they have , as they say , committed this to the view of all men , &c. these are the fears and jealousies , which have occasioned the spilling of so much innocent bloud as has b●●n of late shed , which cries so lowd against the men of their generation [ as they call themselves ] that i do not wonder they are afraid of their own [ though they fear where no fear is ] till cain became the shedder of his brother bloud , he never cried that the next man which met him should slay him . this fear and jealousy was then and is now a meer slander of the good laws and practice of the king , as i shall have occasion hereafter to shew . sect. . this epistle ended , they date it the eighth day of the third moneth ; which of it self notes their inclination to thwart all the world though it be for nothing but their mindes sake . and albeit they come with a seeming resolution of admitting of no proofs but what are taken out of the new testament , yet have no pattern at all for this their manner of dating , but what they are beholden to the old testament for [ for in the new they have no footstep of it at all ] wherein they become guilty of a threefold vanity : which i shall discover upon the resolution of three queries . . what the moneths in scripture were ? . by what names they were called ? . when they began ? for answer to the first , i say . that the hebrews seemd at first to measure their moneths according to the course of the sun , calling them menses solares , every moneth consisting of thirty daies : for the scripture ●aies , that the waters prevailed from the seventeenth day of the second moneth , gen. . . unto the seventeenth day of the seventh moneth , gen. . . that is , full five moneths , and if we will number the daies , they were one hundred and fifty , gen. . . whereby it is evident that every moneth contained full thirty daies . after the israelites departure out of egypt , they measured their moneths by the course of the moon : and because the year of the synodical or consequential moneths of the moon [ which are the longest of lunar moneths ] comes short of the year of the sun by eleven daies , and a fourth part , hence the jewes and greeks too , every eight years made an embolisme , 〈◊〉 an intercalation or interjection of three moneths , as the centurists have noted out of affricanus , cen. . l. ● . c. . and albeit st. aug. de civ . drei . l. . c. . and with him others do hold that they reckoned by m●●ses lunares , as well before as after the giving of the law : yet the same father in the same place gives to every moneth thirty daies , whereas the full synodical moneth of the moon is but twenty nine daies , twelve hours , and fourty four minutes , as lud. vives hath observed upon him : whereunto gareaus addes three seconds and twelve thirds , tract ▪ de temp. can. . these things being ●o , they must tell us what moneths they mean , whether the moneths of the sun , or the moneths of the moon ? and if of the moon , then whether the periodical or synodical moneth from the beginning whereof they reckon their eighth day ? otherwise they might have left out their date to this epistle , in as much as dates are to be certain . for answer to the second . before the captivity in babylon the moneths in scripture are almost all reckoned [ without name ] according to the order of their calender , by first , second , and third moneth , &c. after their return from captivity they counted them all by names according to the example of the ass●rians and ch●ldeans , amongst whom they lived , and with whom the studie of the mathematicks flourished , some of those they borrowed from the chaldeans , whereof mention is made in zachary , esther , n●hemiah , &c. neither do i finde that under or after the captivity , they expressed their moneths at all by numeral words . 't is true that luc. . , . mention is made of the sixth moneth : but it 's not to be 〈◊〉 of the general account of the whole year , but of that particular thing viz. the sixth m●neth from the conception of john baptist in the womb of his mother elizabeth , which compute might begin any day of any stated moneth , as well as the first of the first moneth , viz. any day of jiar , sivan , thomus , cisleu , &c. as well as the first of nis●● or tisri and indeed the ecclesiastical tradition is that this compute began ●ix moneths before the twenty fifth of march , though those that are against the celebration of christmass [ which depends hereon ] contend against it : but their arguments are meerly destructive , and brought to puzzle the truth , not to prove any thing at all ▪ now to apply all this . if the people of god did not ●cruple to call their moneths by the same name as the chaldeans did , among whom they lived , and never after by the first , second , and third , &c. as they had done before ; why do these men now begin to make it a matter of conscience to do otherwise , and that without example in all the new testament , or in the old testament after the return from the captivity ; or lastly , of any reformed church in christendome , which use the same name ; of moneths , and the same order of their calender , as the state wherein they live does . the third querie is , when the moneths mentioned in scripture began their account of first , second , and third , & c ? for resolution whereof it will be requisite to answer to two queries , . what was the first moneth ? . when was the first day of that moneth ? to the first i answer , that buxtorse will tell you , in his jewish synagogue , out of the talmud , that the jews had four seasons of the year ; which they called the first moneths in several respects . but certain it is , out of the scripture it self , that before their coming out of egypt , the moneth tisri was their first moneth , which began about the autumnal equinox [ for it is called the feast of ingathering , which is perfected in the end of the year levit. . . [ and to the end of the old year , immediately succeeds the beginning of the new ] the same continued for civil affairs . after their coming out of egypt , their year began in the moneth nis an , or abib , which was about the vernal equinox , exod. . . then it was that god first said , this moneth shall be to thee the beginning of moneths , viz. in order to sacred solemnities , h. e. all the ceremonies of the law. to the second i answer , that of these moneths of the hebrews no certain time of beginning can be shewen , by reason of the anticipation of equinoxes , and the new moons not recurring in the same moments of time . the modern jews , and others that follow them , refer the first moneth nis an to our march ; and it is manifest , that this moneth was called , the moneth of new fruits or ears of corn , because then did the corn put forth full ears , exod. ● . . the barley was in the ear , and the flax was bolled before they came out of egypt : and this moneth is called , josh . . . the time of harvest , because then did harvest begin : whence it is probable , that this first moneth was a little later then the time of our march : which is yet more evident from the time of the vernal equinox , which in the time of julius caesar fell the twenty fifth of march , not the tenth or eleventh , as now it does : the sacred year therefore of the jews beginning about the vernal equinox , it follows , that most of , or all the first moneth thereof , must fall in april . the like may be said of the first moneth of the civil year , which may begin in the middle or end of september , or beginning of october with us . now then , these authors dating their epistle the eighth day of the third moneth who can tell whether they mean the third from the vernal , or the third from the autumnal equinox , h. e. from the beginning of the ceremonial or civil year ? all ceremonies they set themselves against , unlesse of their own devising ; and no civil constitutions will their conscience be bound by : wherefore in what moneth of the year , or in what day of the moneth , to find such men , that do not know where to find themselves , is more then i can do . some of them [ and one of the greatest rabbies amongst them ] have dated things in the first moneth , commonly called march ; whom therefore the ceremonial year seems to pleasebest ; though the vanity thereof appears from hence , viz. that this sacred year , and the several periods thereof , was no more to the dating of any thing with the jews , then advent , and the weeks or moneths following it , are with us ; in as much as it was not by the sacred , but the civil year that they reckoned the payments of tythes , the payment of debts , the discharge of contracts , their jubilees , their sabbatical year , and what not ? i should think then , that if they dislike our account , which is reckoned from the time of the conception of our saviour , announced by the angel to the blessed virgin , they then should reckon from the first moneth following the nativity of christ , h. e. january , the beginning whereof is the christian and julian epocha . but such direction is the ready way to teach them to do the quite contrary , the design of hereticks having ever been to gain glory by a singularity of knowledge ; and of these in particular to speak something which they understand not themselves , rather then be understood by others . sect. . the epistle to the reader thus dated and subscribed by six men , all as yet in communion together , they begin their tractare with a specious title , which they call sober endeavours to prevent innocent bloud , and to stablish the nation in the best of settlements . but when their party ruled , wofull experience tells us , how cheap other mens bloud was to them , and how far they desired the best of settlements , when they strove against all government but an arbitrary one : and among all governments which they dislike , that of kings seems chiefly io stick upon their stomacks , because the nations of the world with their kings [ not with their protectors and rvmpers ] are said to drink the wine of the fornication of that abominable harlot ; where , by harlot they would have only the pope understood , whereas its dominatio romana , the government or rule of [ not the pope , but the emperours ] of rome , as hugo grotius , and dr. hammond have observed : and indeed the emperours at that time , whereunto this relates , did rerum potiri . if they will not trust hugo grotius , let them believe johannes grossius of geneva , upon the apocalypse : the anagram of whose name is ( as himself makes it ) sis organon jesu : who speaks , though not the same thing , yet enough to prove what i pretend to : for expounding the thirteenth , c. saith , that two things are signified by the seven heads : . the mountains whereon the woman is set . . so many heads and sorts of governments successively . the five first of those governments , viz. the kings , the consuls , the dictators , the decemvirs , and the tribunes , were abolisht in the time of st. john ; the sixth , viz. the emperours , was then in vigour , and the seventh , viz. the popes , was not as yet , being not made soveraign at rome : for st. john sayes , chap. . v. . that the one was , and the other was not yet come . the ten horns , sayes he , are ten provinces depending on the empire of rome , that is to say , the more principal , viz. . italy , . spaine , . the gaules . . almain , . hungary and bulgaria , . greece , . asia minor , called at this day natolia , . syria and assyria . . egypt , . affrica : and chap. . v. . the number of the beast is the number of a man : that is , sayes he , a number wherewith men serve themselves ordinarily . now st. john writes to the greek churches , and in the greek language : but the greeks ( as also the hebrews ) are wont in numeration to serve themselves of letters of the alphabet . this number then stands thus , hereunto it is objected , that ( latinos ) is not written with ( ei ) but with a single ( i ) whereunto he answers , that this is a childish objection , in as much as it is notoriously known , that the greeks do often write the ( i ) latin , by ( ei ) and that the latins themselves pronounced ( i ) by ( ei ) the which pronunciation ( sayes he , and that truly ) is common and ordinary among the english at this day . it is true , that some among us do affect to pronounce ( t ) everywhere , as forreigners do , without any regard whether it be long or short , ut supra communem hominum sortem sapere videantur : but for mine own part , inforreign places , and among forreigners , i have pronounced it as they do ; not that it is better in it self , but that i might be the better understood by them ; as generation , in france , i would pronounce jeneration , in germany ●eneratio ; regem , in france , re●em , in germany re●em , and so of a number of other words . but to return from my digression , this being enough to prove the harlot to be a latin and of rome , but not to be the ●ope only . to take it in their own sense , they would have our king to be one of those kings ; but they confute themselves by their own words following , wherein they say , that this harlot sitteth upon peoples , and mult●●udes , and nations , and tongues , and by her sorcerses deceives all 〈◊〉 &c. for how does this harlot sit upon our king and people , when we abjure all preheminences upon earth above the king , and the king acknowledges no superiour but god ? the dece●ver mentioned thes . . they seem to make all one with this harlot : but dr. hommond will have thereby simon magus to be understood . this simon magus was the ring-leader of the gnosticks , he sate in the temple of god , called god by the emperour claudius , who caused a statue to be erected by tiber , between the two bridges , with this inscription , simoni deo sancto , to simon the holy god ; and he had all rites of divine worship performed to him by the samaritans . yea , those that hold the popes only to be antichrist , are driven to say , that they are so , as far only as they work by signs and lying wonders in the vertue and power of simon magus : and if they will have a dominion and rule joyned to it , then it must be so far forth as they in their actings resemble that dominatio romana , or roman rule and domination . and this is called harlot , a female , for dominatio , virtus and potentia are feminines : and it is observable , that the caliphs or saracenical popes [ who vested themselves in all power spiritual and temporal ] are of the feminine gender . whose power , ( as are and were most of the eastern governments ) was tyrannical , set up by mahomet , who compiled his divellish doctrine , beginning his empire about the same time that boniface the third assumed his antichristian title beginning his empire , there being but eleven years between them . tyrannical government and governours are as birds of prey ; amongst which sort of birds the female is ever the largest , boldest , and most morose : insomuch that a cast of sacres once set upon an eagle , and having buffetted and wearied him a good , made him descend to the earth by the force of their blows : the fa●lconer proud hereof , bragged of it before him of the ottomans , who took constantinople , who caused their necks to be wrung off , for enterprizing upon their king : which may very fitly be applyed to the men of this generation , who may justly be called sacres [ quasi quodvis sacrum aucupantes , imo sacram majestatem debellantes . ] who not contented to prey upon the persons and estates of other of their fellow subjects , seize upon majesty it self , accounting themselves the only ( sacri ) saints which ought to possess the earth upon the account of grace , as the pope and his party does in ordine ad spiritualia ; both of them fitly resembling the madness of thrasilaus ( or , as some say , thrasimene ) the athenian , who made account that all the ships which came into the haven were his own , and would be very angry with those that went about to reclaim him from so sweet an errour : these are like mariners that sail from the same port contrary wayes in the world to make proselytes , but meet together in the antipodes . the popes pretend to sanctitas when in many things it is mera fatuitas , as his holinesse was sometimes stiled by the emperour in goldastus : so the men of this generation pretend to holinesse , when as the devil sends them strong delusions to believe a lye : and 't were happy for some of them , did they all but believe it , who are as like their fathers , stork , stubner , and muntzer , as one egg is like another . this nicholas stork , and mark stubner born in germany , did like simon magus , endeavour by divers artifices to gain upon the unwary multitude . this , by learning and a certain acumen in expounding of scriptures , the other ignorant of letters , by popular eloquence , enthusiasms , and same of secret conference with god. both these , with their great pomp and cunning no man knows what became of . neverthelesse the third of them , viz. muntzer , failed not to make the highest improvement of the fruit of this new gospel , imprinted in the minds of the people by stubner and stork . the fanaticks took occasion of dividing themselves into parts , and of renting the church from luther's book of christian liberty , first set forth in . wherein they reading that a christian man was lord of all things , and subject to no man , these words were wrested to a wrong sense by men impatient of their own and others quiet : and thereupon first in private and obscure cottages , next in open and eminent places , the cruel government of kings , their pillaging of their subjects was objected in the presence of the people . liberty acquired to all under the kingdom of jesus christ , was boasted of : complaints were made not onely of the tyranny of the bishop of rome , but of smaller matters tolerated by the first reformers of the church ▪ and by this means the two pillars of publick order were weakened , viz. the dignity of the magistracy , and the reverence and respect of the ministry , and the authority of both . hereupon thoughts were had , and endeavours used for the setting up of a new and more perfect church , governed by a new kinde of policy , and of initiating it's disciples by a new baptism . and least that the respect had to their former baptism should hinder it , they declaimed against infant . baptism as vain and unlawful , as being given to such as were not capable , pretending that this sacrament was not to be administred to any but men of full age , and such as were at their own disposal . and that this upstart church might take the deeper root , these new doctors pretended a practice of godlinesse in themselves , and endeavoured to inculcate the same into others . hence the ordinary themes of their private and publick meetings were , that sin was to be had in detestation , the flesh to be kept under , and the spirit stirred up duties of charity to be practised , the crosse of our lord to be born , fastings were often to be held , mean garments and moderate diet to be used , the dresse of the whole body to be composed rather unto neglect then elegancy , and that few words were to be used . it is a wonder to see how far by this juggling the common enemy of mankinde transforming himself into an angel of light , promoted his own kingdom , and how obnoxious these new gospellers rendred even good men by this feigned scheme and form of godlinesse . these new doctors , viz. muntzer and his companions , little moved by the exhortations or invectives of luther , or the threatnings of the civil magistrate , tumult the more for them , complaining that luther and others 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 savoured of nought but carnal things , saying , that they had onely broken off some boughs of antichristianism , leaving the tree and root entire ; which , as it ought , they would have to be cut up . and when they found no shelter for their errours in the word of god , they fly to new arts of defending themselves and their errours , they brag of enthusiasms and secret inspirations , inculcating into the people , that man was to live by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of god , and that therefore we are not to search after wisdome in books onely , and writings , but that we should give diligence according to the prescript of the apostle , that all prophecy . hence every fishmonger almost brag'd of the spirit , feigned revelations , invented enthusiasms , after the example of stork and muntzer , opened the pulpits to coblers and cummin sellers , and whatsoever the spirit of errour dictated to any of them , they obtruded upon others for the word of god , though besides or against the written word . a wide gap being thus opened to enthusiasms , any opinions were obtruded upon the ignorant and itching-ear'd people , as namely that no oaths were obligatory under the gospel , they every where preached sedition , and the seditious became armed against their princes , insomuch that the most flourishing provinces were hereby destroyed , and died in bloud . muntzer he must be their gideon , who bore this inscription in his banners , namely , thomas muntzer and the sword of gideon . these things and many more may be read in spanhemius de origine progressu , sectis , nominibus , & dogmatibus anabaptistarum , and in the commentaries of sleiden . it does almost superare annalium fidem , for a man would scarce believe what outrages have been committed in westphalia , by john of leyden , matthew , and knipperdoling : whereof this last was so hardened in his wickednesse , that he endured three pinches of a red hot pair of tongs , before he implored the mercy of god ; which amongst other things [ whereof some are formerly related ] are recorded by the said sleiden in the fifth and tenth book of his commentaries , from whence this story was of purpose translated into english , anno . as a warning piece to england , especially for london , against those things , which , by woful experience , we have found to have come to passe , and whether they would have proceeded [ had not god in mercy turned the stream ] might easily be foreseen . if this be not the spirit of antichrist ; [ that pretends to be so much for christ , and yet so much against him , as the very word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 implies ] i know not what is . if this be the very poison , in a cup of gold [ where of these men speak ] what is ? if this be not to make men drunk with the wine of abomination [ which they talk of ] what is ? if they will have it to be understood without a figure of a material cup of gold , even this is as truly verified of the men of this generation as of any , inasmuch as this is called a cup of abomination , in reference to some abomination committed in , with , or upon some cups of gold , and particularly that of belshazzar's impious feast , dan. . when the golden vessels which were taken out of the temple of the house of god , which was at hierusalem , were brought , and the king and his princes , his wives and his concubines drank in them . and have not the men of this generation done as much in spoiling churches of their ornaments , of their chalices , of their treasures , and they , their wives and concubines have drunk in them to their own gods , viz. their covetousnesse , their ambition and carnal pleasures , deriding their consecration as superstitious , and consequently accounting that god a devil to whom they were set apart ? the onely pretence they have for this their sacriledge is , that musick , vestments , bishops , ceremonies and churche & have not any footst●p in the new testament ; whereby they discover themselves to be the most rigid sort of the anabaptists : as do these men , so did the severians and cerdonians , as st. austin de haeresibus ad quod vult deum , testifies . i must therefore encounter them within lists of their own setting , i mean the new testament , or not at all . sect. . first then for musick : where do they find it forbidden in the new testament ? nay , are we not exhorted to sing in the new testament ? viz. james . . did not the disciples of christ sing an hymn or psalm after the receiving of the sacrament ? mat. . and mark . . does not st. paul exhort his ephesians to speak unto themselves in psalms , and hymns , and spiritual songs , singing and making melody in their hearts unto god ? ephes . . . and does not the same apostle advise his colossions to teach and admonish one another in psalms , and hymns ? &c. colos . . . and whether these psalms , and hymns , and spiritual songs be different , as grotius notes , or the same things , as others contend , they cannot be sung without musick ; and this speaking , teaching , and admonition , which are the subjects of these psalms , and hymns , and spiritual songs , are an evidence that we may , nay [ if the apostles exhortation be of any force with us ] we must sing out all things that tend to edification at times convenient . the whole book of the psalms is a confutation of the adversaries to this truth , in as much as it being the very pith and marrow of the whole bible , contains doctrine , admonition , blessing , cursing , prophecying , history , prayer , holy enquiries , allwayes of edification and consolation : yet these were not only appointed to be sung , but were adapted to organs , virginals , viols , and other sorts of artificial instruments , both ( 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ) stringed and wind , psal . . and psal . . in titulis . but to improve their objection for them , where do we find organs and chromatick musick to be any morethen types and shadows of things to come ? whereunto i answer , that it cannot be proved by any man that organs and chromatick musick are any more types and shadows of things to come under the gospel , then other vocal musick is ; or give , not grant , that they had been ceremonial , they may nevertheless now be used in another acceptation , viz. as helps of lifting up of our hearts unto god , the better fitting them for hearing and divine meditation : neither did god , sayes calvin upon the . psalm , without cause heretofore under the law , require the multiplicity of musick , that he might draw the minds of his people from vain and wicked delights [ whereunto men are too much addicted ] to a holy and advantageous gladness ; and yet all this was too little , which gave occasion to the prophet , amos . . to say , wo● be unto those that sing to the sound of the viol , and invent instruments of musick like david . not that david was the first inventor of those instruments [ for it was jubal the son of lamech , gen. . ] but that they studied all incitements to luxury , defending their fault by the example of david ; as if david had used musical instruments as provocations to luxury , and not as incitements to piety . who then can deny , that it is lawful for us to use the same sorts of musick , since the use thereof is directed to the same ends , and those not typical but moral ? under the law there was a double use of killing of beasts , the one as a sacrifice , the other as a sustenance : the taking of it away as a sacrifice , does not abolish the use thereof as asustenance . the like may be said of any musick [ giving ▪ not granting it to have been ceremonial and typical ] that though it might be then typical of things to come , yet the use of it at present is tropical , h. e. for the rectifying of disorders , and for the raising up of our hearts to a holy and heavenly exultation , and drawing our minds from prophane and idle songs , in use at meretricious meetings . those that deny the use of musical instruments under the new testament , will have them nevertheless to be types of praises : by which nice distinction they are driven to confess , that they are something that is not ceremonial . their deceit they would have lye under the ambiguity of the word type : for . it is taken for a material print or impression , made by nails or otherwise , as john . . and such types they cannot be . . for the sum of an epistle , or the like , as acts . . and such they cannot be . . for a shadow or adumbration of a thing or person to come ; and this by their own confession , or rather affirmation , they are not : for this were to make them ceremonies , which they will have to be contradistinguished from types . . for a form of doctrine , rom. . but organs , &c. and voices are not forms of doctrine . . for an image or statue , acts . ▪ and this they cannot be neither , these being the work of painters and engravers . . for examples to be feared , cor. . . but these they cannot be there being no judgement in all the scripture inflicted upon any that used singing or musical instruments , no , nor threatned against them , unless such as abused them to luxury . . for a samplar to be followed , phil. . . and as it were a copy given to be taken out by others . and such types they are , ( being proposed to us to be imitated under the gospel ) and no other , as has been proved by us , and confessed by themselves . sect. . as for vestments , the same may be said of these as of musick that though under the law they were typical of things to come under th● gospel , yet under the new testament they are not so , but meer distinctions of persons serving , and of services to be performed ; which we learn not from the law of moses alone , but from that of nature too . the sacrificers among the heathen had their infulaes , h. e. sacerdotates vittas . the druides performed no facred services without the leaves of oak : and not only the germans , but the greeks , adorned their altars with green leaves of oak . in the rites performed to ●eres , they were crowned with oak ; in those to apollo with bayes ; in those to hercules with poplar ; in those to bac●hus with myrtle . the victims and vessels were likewise crowned : sched . de dis germ. c. . in all which was a decency intended , agreeable to the work they were about . it is very obvious how full the new testament is of declamations against the abominable practices of the heathen ▪ yet let these men tell me where in all the epistles of the apostles these , or the like ceremonies were reprehended ? i know some would have me say , as pliny does , namely , that the druides sacrificed in white garments , that they might thence infer our surplices to be a ceremony derived from heathens , and abused to superstition : and was not the oak abused by the druides to superstition , being had in so great veneration among them ? and yet our late reformers gave order [ which was universally observed accordingly ] for the acorn , the fruit of the oak , to be set upon the top of their maces and crowns , and that instead of the cross , which had never been abused by the heathen , who had it in detestation , as a figure most unlike that which is best pleasing to him they worshipped , h. ● . the devil . which thing so done by them was nevertheless of happy presage to us , viz. that the tree which bore such fruit should [ like that , in the plains of mamre ] serve for the shelter of our earthly angel , king charles , from the heat and fury of rebellion , which was then in the very noon ; until the cross reassumed its place again upon the top of his crown . so unlucky are contentious spirits many times , that they confute themselves by going about to condemn others ? oh but these men accounting themselves the only saints and servants of the most high god , any thing they wear or do must be sanctified to them : for to the pure all things are ture , but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure . and if so , then they must prove , that our church consisteth of unbelievers ; that it teaches and practises the uncleanness and other abominati●ns of the heathen , so often noted by the apostles ; yea our very worship of god to be unclean and abominable , before they can conclude our ceremonies to be unclean and unlawful . but whilest we maintain the worship of the true god , and give up our selves to be ordered by his laws , we are pure , and consequently to us all things are pure , tit. . . a thing which cannot be said of them , whilest they would have any error in doctrine or worship , yea blasphemy it self to passe unpunished , which is the whole drift of this their sions groans . wherefore definant maledicere , malefacta ne noscant sua . let them look into themselves , and their own practises , and they will find little reason to think themselves in heaven , much less to pull up the ladder after them , as if none were worthy to follow . st. paul pleads not for this decency only , but for order two , cor. . which doubtless was used also among these sacrificers . and therefore , as well for the expediency of the thing in it self , as the avoiding of the imputation of rudeness and confusion , wherewith the grecians here were apt to load them : the apostle concludes the chapter with this canon , let all things be done decently , and in order ; since therefore they can prove nothing but decency , order , and usefulness in such ceremonies as we use , what they say against them must go for nothing , and prevail as little with us , as a rationale would with them . which should i produce whereby to give an account of particularities , it would not make me justly liable to the dicterium of beza [ in his epistle to the prince of conde , put before his translation of the new testament ] cast upon those , who as he saies , collabentibus aedium fundamentis de instaurando fastigio laborarunt . sect. . as for bishops , there are some we read of in the scripture , who had the appellation to be called bishops , but were not distinguished into a superiour order above others . others were both called so , and distinguished into an order superiour unto others ; and these are the bishops here meant by us . such were timothy and titus , as we learn from the several epistles written unto them by st. paul. such were the seven angels of the seven churches of asia in the revelation , in the judgement of dr. reynolds in his conference with hart , in the end of the third , and the beginning of the fifth division : and in the judgement of the archbishop of armagh , of the original of bishops and metropolitans , both printed together . those who by these angels would have the churches to be meant , do manifestly contradict the scripture . for , saies christ there , the candlesticks are the churches , and the stars are the seven angels of the churches . i wonder therefore , saies grotins , what spirit of contradiction carries men away , that they dare confound things which the spirit of god so manifestly distinguisheth . de imp. sum . not . circa sacra , c. . and i more wonder that these men should say that there is not one word for them in the new testament , or that they should be set up by us as antitypes of the high priests under the law. no , christ is onely that . neverthelesse in regard of the distinction , which was an ecclesiastical thing among the jewes ; i say that the bishops do resemble the high priests , and the inferiour clergy the other priests . for there were in this respect many high priests at once , of whom we read many to have been assembled together , mark . . every one of which was summus sacerdos istius classis , the high , or chief priest of that rank . these ranks had their several courses : & zachary was of one of these courses , viz. of that of abia , luc. . . not all these , but one only was typical , shadowing forth jesus christ unto them . and even in this high priest there was something besides the representation , as is plain by st. paul , who yielded his obedience to the high priest as governour of the people , acts . . and that after the type was expired , which had been unlawfull , had there not been somewhat remaining in him besides the figure . eleazar in aaron's life-time was princeps princip●m ; or pralatus pralatorum , num. . . and yet not reputed a type of christ ; and chron. . . we read of three at once , one onely whereof was the high priest which was the type of christ , the rest were not so ; yet by reason of their dignity paramount to others , might resemble archbishops themselves . and the other forementioned high priests in regard of the place they held above the rest of their classe , are in a sort resembled by our bishops . and that this may not seem strange to any , 't is a matter obvious to our observation that scarcely any ordinance or order under the new testament , can be named , which is not derived from others under the old , by some kind of resemblance intended between them . imposition of hands by the apostles was taken up in imitation of that practised under the old testament for the designation of successors ; as moses used it towards josuah , num. . , . that the whole frame of church government answers to the like order and distinction of persons and offices in the old testament is evidenced by the learned bishop of winton in a scheme to that purpose thus drawn , viz. aaron should be resembled by christ . eleazar archbishops . princes of priests bishops . priests presbyters . princes of levites archdeacons . levites deacons . nethinims clerks and sextons . and hereunto he is led by the opinion of the ancient fathers , who seem to be of the same mind , viz. that the same form should serve both : so is st. cyprian , so st. hierome , st. lee and rabanus de vita clericor . the government of the church of the old testament , saies the archbishop of armagh , was committed to priests and levites , unto whom the ministers of the new testament do now succeed in like sort as our lords day hath done unto their sabbath . so he , in his original of episcopacy : and if it were reasonable for christians to take the jewes for their pattern in drawing their scheme of church government ; much more is it for modern christians to follow the ancient , a thing which our church has done in her reformation , which has retained all things of ancient usage in the church of rome , lest men should be scandalized at us , whilest we seemed to set up a new religion , instead of reforming the old. the very lords prayer hath much of conformity , not only to the forms used by the jewes , as others have observed ; but also as it seems to me , to the very design of the sacrifices of the law , which are all reducible to three kinds . the first was the whole burnt-offering to god , as absolute lord of heaven & earth , and as one to whom belongeth honour from us , should he never bestow any special favour upon us . the second was the peace-offering , whereby to obtain at his gracious hands all those blessings and the degrees thereof , whereof men stand in need , whether publick or private , as also to expresse a thankfulnesse for all blessings , and for all those gracious returns he makes to the prayers of his people from time to time , or at any time . the third was the sin offering for the expiation of all or any transgressions of his holy and divine commandments , and for health of soul . in conformity whereunto our saviour hath in that perfect and absolute form taught us to offer , by him , a spiritual holocaust to the honour of his name , who inhabits eternity , in these words , our father which art in heaven , hallowed be thy name . secondly a spiritual peace-offering for the advancement of his kingdom in us , and the adimpletion of his will by us , as also for a supply of all outward necessaries in these words , thy kingdom come , thy will be done in earth as it is in heaven , give us this day our dayly bread . thirdly , a spiritual sin offering for the forgivenesse of sins past , and for prevention of sin for the time to come , in these words . and forgive us our trespasses , as we forgive them that trespasse against us ; and lead us not into temptation , but deliver us from evil . and these not without a doxology , as a spiritual libamen or meat-offering , [ without which no burnt-offering was to be made under the law ] in these words ; for thine is the kingdom , the power , and the glory , for ever and ever . amen . and so having not only proved the order and distinctions of ecclesi●sticks under the new testament , but also the first liturgy [ so the lords prayer is proved to be by cassander in liturgic●s ex dionysio , and stands undeniably true ] to be instituted in resemblance of the like under the old testament , i come now to prove the jurisdiction that they have one over another , and over the rest of the church : wherein two things are to be considered in relation to o●r bishops , viz. . their power . . the distribution of this power . as for the first . their power is so connatural , that the chief judge in areopagus was a priest , hence cohen in hebrew was a common name to magistrates and to priests , gen. . . potipherah was priest . h. e. prince of on. the druides among the galls were of the noblest stock of kindred : they were so in epirus and cappadocio , it was usual as well among the grecians as romans for kings to be priests , and as schedus de dis germ notes out of fenestella , the priest was never made a distinct person from the civil magistrate till the expulsion of kings out of rome : and that this power so challenged by the voice of nature in the heathen themselves , is warranted by the scriptures of the new testament , i shall have occasion to shew anon , in answer to their objections against it . mean while i shall prove the second thing considerable , viz. the distribution of their power . and this is distributed according to the distribution of the civil power , the bishop residing in the city or chief place , all the clergy of inferiour places within his diocess are subjest to him as he is to the archbishop : which is answerable to what the apostles at first did practise in the very beginning of christianity , and was followed by after times , as is observed by dr. hammond out of acts . and . c. and made good against the animadversions on the dissertations touching ignatius's epistles , c. . sect . . his words are these . according to the image of the civil government among the jews , and the like again in their temple [ forementioned ] the apostles appeared to have disposed of churches every where , and in a●● their plantations to have constituted a subordination and dependance of the churches in the inferiour cities , to those in the chief or metropoles . an example of this we have in the story of the acts , concerning syria and cilicia , and the several cities thereof , in relation to antioch the metropolis . for when the question , acts . . was referred and brought to jerusalem from the church peculiarly of antioch , c. . . and . . and the decree of the council return'd to them by whom the question was proposed , h. e. to the church at antioch , ver . . yet in the epistle wherein the decree was contained , we find the brethren through syria and cilicia , i. e. all the christians of that province to be expressed and joyned with those of antioch , ver . . and after when that decretal epistle was delivered to the church of antioch , ver . . paul and silas went over syria and cilicia , ver . . and . and as they went , they delivered to every city the decrees of the council , c. . v. . which is an evidence that the churches of those cities related either immediately to antioch , or , as antioch it self did , to jerusalem , and were in subordination to it as to the principal metropolis of so wide a province , according to that of philo , that jerusalem was in his time , the metropolis , not of jud●a alone , but of many other regions , in respect of the colonies , which it sent out of the jews that dwelt in them , naming syria and cilicia and divers others , thus for the learned doctor . the same is proved out of rev. . . john to the seven churches in asia , where st. john directing his letters unto them thus indefinitely without any mention of their particular names , he cannot by common intendment be conceived to have understood any other thereby , but such as by some degree of eminency were distinguish●ble from all the rest of the churches that were in asia , and in some sort did comprehend all the rest under them : for taking asia here in the most strict sense , for the lydian , or [ as the imperial constitutions call it ] the proconsular asia : it is not to be imagined that after so long pains taken by the apostles and their disciples therein there should be found no more then seven churches , especially since st. luke , acts . , . testifies that all they which dwelt in asia , heard the word of the lord jesus , both jews and greeks , so mightily grew the word of the lord and prevailed . and in particular among the epistles of ignatius , there is one directed to the church in trallis , another to the church in magnesia : and both these were subject to the metropolitane of ephesus . see the archbishop of armagh , as above quoted . and for these reasons , as also for their eminence in learning and wisdom , have all christian kings of this realm ever consulted with them , in the establishment of laws . we read in lambert's 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and mr. selden's titles of honour , that the laws of ina king of the west-saxons , were made by the perswasion and appointment of his father cenredus , and of hedda and erkenwald , bishops , with senatours , elders and wise men of the people , in a frequent assembly of the servants of god ; which was between the years . and . the laws of alured the first founder of this monarchy , were made by his authority , as those of ina had been by his ; but ex consulto sapientum by the advice of the wise , which must include the bishops . . because his laws were grounded on moses his laws . . because nor these , nor those of ina did reach to life , except in case of treason against king or master . . because he hereby allotted much of the kingdom to guthurn , on condition of guthuru's becoming christian . all which are things well beseeming the judgement of bishops , and are ( especially the first ) arguments sufficient to convince some of errour that contend our laws to have had their original out of the twelve tables . this was anno . about . years since . the laws of ethelstan , anno . were made by the prudent counsel of vlfhelme archbishop , and the rest of the bishops , &c. wherein an estimate was made of all orders of men that then were , or rather a declaration of the common law in that point . as first , the king was esteemed at . thrymsa's , i. e. so many times three shillings ; an archbishop at . thrymsa's ; a bishop or senatour at . thrymfa's ; a general of an army at . one initiated in holy orders , or a thame i. e. a noble man at . whereby it appears that an archbishop was double to any subject of the kingdom besides ; and a bishop equil to the greatest lord in the land ; and every priest as good as the best noble man under the degree of a senatour , so far are any of these orders from arrogating , that they have lost much of that ancient honour , which belonged unto them by the common law of this nation . king edmund called together a frequent assembly of ecclesiasticks and laicks ; where oda and woolstan archbishop were present , with very many other bishops , for the sanction of laws . so did king eldred anno . as ingulphus testifies . so edgar and canutus establisht laws by the advice of the wise . so did william the conquerour with the concurrence of his princes , whereof the archbishops must be a part : since which time no acts of parliament are made without the lords spiritual . and that these things were allowed to the priests under the old testament no man will deny , the proofs therein being so frequent & pregnant . but our adversaries here call for proofs out of the new , whereunto i have & shall answer hereafter in its due time & place , contenting my self at present with the exposition of that one text of mat. . . ye which have followed me , in the regeneration when the son of man shall sit upon the throne of his glory , ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones , judging the twelve tribes of israel . this was spoken to the twelve apostles which were clergy men , and the predecessors of all bishops ; where note that the comma should be put immediately after me ; and in the regeneration referred to the son of man sitting on the throne of his glory , which was immediately after the descent of the holy ghost , a time 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and by way of eminence call'd the regeneration , because then were the gifts of ministration and sanctification more abundantly poured forth then ever they had been before ; the immediate end whereof was regeneration or renovation : then did every apostle besides his general commission , take upon him his particular episcopacy ; where he sate and judged that is , governed the church , signified here by the twelve tribes of israel , under which notion the jewish church had been comprehended . and if it were understood of their being assessors to christ in the last judgement , surely then i might use the argument of st. paul , which concludes a fortiori , cor. . . know ye not that we shall judge the angels ? how much more things that pertain to this life ? where , under the pronoun we , he includes himself and all the apostles ; in whose absence he would have them rather end all differences ( which at any time might happen ) by compromise , then appeal to heathenish tribunals , from whence they were like to reap nothing but scandal to religion , and injustice to themselves , by reason of the corruption of the courts , according to that of the epigrammatist ad sextum . et judex petit , & petit patronus ; solvas , censeo , sexte , creditori . the judge does ask a bribe , thy advocate a fee : pay then thy creditour , better pay one then three . and so having done with bishops , come we now to churches . sect. . it is very true , that where two or three are gathered together in the name of christ , there is he in the midst of them : which was a singular consolation to the disciples of christ , that though they were driven to corners and deserts , and were fain to wander in desolate places , being hated by all men for christs sake , yet how does this forbid publick meetings , and at publick places , when time and opportunity presents it self ? the people of god may pray in [ cryptis ] caves , in time of persecution , therefore they must do so in time of freedom , when all the world is become christians , is there any logick in this ? no , no more then would be in this kind of argument . for the present necessity it is not good for a man to touch a woman . therefore when the necessity is over no man may marry . this follows not , but the clear contrary rather . and to make further proof hereof by scripture of the new testament , it is obvious to our observation that the people of god had not only their synedria's and national conventions , but other houses of prayer erected , and called synagogues , who being converted to the falth by the preaching of the apostles , the synagogues were made particular churches : for gal. . . saint paul testifies of himself , that he persecuted the church of god. now where was this church of god ? it was in synagogues , act. . . i imprisoned , saies he , and beat in every synagogue them that believed on thee : from whence i observe two things , . that the example of christians here , does teach us that its lawfull to serve god in temples made with hands , though he be not , nor ever was confined to them . . that it is as lawfull that this be done , though in places abused to false doctrine and superstition , as these synagogues , yea their places of national convention were , and that by pharisees , sadduces , and other sects , yea generally by all the jews before their conversion to the faith . and what is testified here , of jewish synedria's and synagogues , is true of heathen temples , namely , that it is lawfull to dedicate them to gods worship . act. . when st. paul sound at athens , an altar dedicated to the unknown god , he went not about to preach down their altar , but to preach up jesus and the resurrection upon it , least he should seem to be a setter forth of strange gods , as indeed he did to some nevertheless . nay , a third thing may be hence observed , namely , that as these synagogues were subordinate to the synedria's or national assemblies ; it follows that divers parochials may be subordinate to the synedrium of the cathedral , and the cathedral to a provincial or national convention . and thus much for the lawfulness of churches . now for the convenience of them . they are convenient , . for their capacity ; the cathedrals being large enough to contain the bishop with the dean and chapter , the standing synede of the diocess , besides the confluence of the whole city and diocess upon all occasions . the parochial churches are lesser , yet of capacity enough to contain a parish . . they are convenient for their situation , . in respect of the diocess [ if cathedrals ] they being in some eminent place thereof , . in respect of the parish [ if parochials ] they being as near as may be to the middle thereof , . in respect of the whole world , in as much as they look towards the east , which the ancient christians turned to in their adoration , as is testified by tertullian in apologet. c. . and by dionysius the areop . in coelest . hi●rarchia , c. . quite contrary to the temple of hierusalem , whose holy of holies or upper end was westward . indeed the church built by cardinal richelieu , at richelieu , a town of his own building too , hath its choir westward , and its entrance in at the east end thereof , which was so appointed by him , i suppose , least otherwise it might spoil the fashion of his town , a respect being had unto the model according to which it was to be built , and not out of an opinion of the indifferency of situation ; for albeit he were contented to turn his face sometimes westward in his adoration when living ; yet being dead he looks eastward in the chappel of his own building in the colledge of sorbon where he lyes buried . what was done by the said church at richelieu , was intended by that in covent-garden , but it was not permitted to be consecrated till the said design was altered , which was done bonis avibus too ; for covent-garden continnes a flourishing part of london suburbs , whereas richelieu hath nothing in it of the aim of the said founder , [ which was to make it a university for the study and teaching of philosophy in the french tongue ] but is like a proud woman , that hangs all upon her back at once ; for so is this empty of students and riches , having nothing left to commend it besides the superb● name , set out with gay and uniform buildings , as if every house there were as a rejection of the cardin●ls magnifick palace that stands by and would in time grow emulous of their mother tree , out of whose root they sprang . but to return , our churches are convenient for situation in respect of their parts within themselves , having an upper end and a lower ; this for the font to initiate and give first entrance into the church by baptism ; that , for the holy table which is for a spiritual repast to [ adulte ] persons of years , the middle for the catechumeni to stand between , . in respect of the fabrick of the whole , they being like naves inversae , ships whose keel is towards heaven . they have also ales or wings in many places , which are nothing else but continuations of vestries ; built in resemblance to cabins in ships , and were therefore called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , h. e. not as a pyxis to keep the host in , as the pontificians contend for , but because they were as cabins for the masters of the ships to lodge in , derived from 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , or 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 thalamus , and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to bear , as bishop morton learnedly observes against them . some cathedrals are built with a single cross , representing that whereon our saviour was crucified [ for since constantine's in hoc vinces , churches have not only been so built in some places , but the sails of ships have ever been furled up in manner of a crucifix ] some are built with a double crosse , the uppermost representing that whereon the title was written , viz. inri they had no way more suitable of enlarging such fabricks , where beauty or necessity required it . i might justifie the building of churches in such figures as are most proper from that place of ezekiel . . go through the midst of the city , through the midst of hierusalem , and set a mark upon the foreheads of them that sigh , &c. and vers . . it is said , slay utterly old and young , both maid and little children and women ; but come not neer any man upon whom is the mark , and begin at my sanctuary . this mark in the original is tau , and so translated in the interl . bibles , and the vulgar latine by those that were no boys ( as * some would make them ) or something less for skill in hebrew grammar . now this letter tau , the last in the hebrew alphabet was written in the old samaritan character , like a crosse , as is witnessed by st. hierome upon the place , and that it was so upon the ancient coines they do not deny ; and it is so both in the alphabet of coines , and in the alphabet of azarius exhibited by vilalpandus upon ezekiel : all that they can say is , that those coines are mala mex , and a kind of counterfeit things ; 't is true , that . counterfeits of jewish coines , and of romans together , &c. too have been made , which many do buy and furnish their closets withall ; all which may be called mala merx : but what is this to the genuine pieces , from whence these counterfeits were taken : i must therefore send them to find better arguments to prove their precensions , then yet they have brought to light , mean while rest in this opinion , viz. that in case we build any consecrated temple , or make any holy sign , as that in baptism is , the fittest figure is that of the crosse : this letter tau is the first letter of torab , b. e. the law whereby god would save the observers of his laws from the common destruction , which is a figure of those that shall be freed from the condemnation of the world , being first marked by christ our high priest , signified thereby a man clothed in linnen with a writers inkhorn by his side , v. . 't is true , that in our translation it is only [ set a mark ] or as it is in the margin , mark a mark : but why may not this mark be a crosse rather then any other , having these significations in it ? neither can any other , i am sure , no better be given to it ; nor yet more natural : for , . it is a figure that is primo cognitum of all other , as consisting of the concourse of lines at right angles , which are the common measure of themselves and all other angles whatsoever ; and let the crosse be made never so irregularly , yet if the lines be streight , it will have four angles equal to four right ones ▪ secondly , contumous quantity being divisibilis in semper divisibili●ra , this cannot be done but in partes equales , & these equal parts cannot be set out so well as by a crosse , whether it be in plana or in ●ubo , sc . in a plain superficies , or a cubical body , unto the first of which all superficies , unto the latter , all solids are to be reduced in measuration ; as for example , in oblong superficies between the unequal sides . i find a mean proportional , this is the side of a square equal to the superficies given again in a triangular , between the pe●pendicular , and the half base : i find a mean proportional , this is the side of a square equal to the triangle given : the same rule serves for a rhomboides : thirdly , 't is no marvel that tau should be originally a crosse , when so many letters in the hebrew alphabet [ i speak not of those that follow the caprice of scribes , or founders of lies ] have their genesis from the pa●ts of a crosse , viz. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 other letters there be as 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which seems to be as so many chips cut off it by the glance of the tool that hewed them ; and of these letters all others seem to be compounded , as is obvious to our observation ; other reasons might be given for the natural apprehension of the crosse , but these shall suffice here to infer the probability of that mark to be the sign of the crosse , and the fitness of building of churches after the manner of a crosse ; which if they would have demolished because built after the manner of a crosse , they must pull down many towns in england , which seem of design to be built after the manner of a crosse , especially glocester , whose figure stands thus , a the ailes gate , b the north gate , c the south gate , d the west gate , e the colledge & st. maries parish church , f the castle , g the middle row . the east west and south streets make up a compleat crosse ; the middle row g the crucifix upon it , the colledge , &c. e our saviours mother and other saints lamenting his condition , or rather their own , the castle f the souldiers that brought to execution and derided him . and that these were the glory of this nation , has been in effect confessed in the pulpit by one of the eminentest independents in the nation , when he prayed god to preserve the universities , the only remaining glory , as he said , of our nation , the cathedrals being then taken away : but what figure soever the churches had been built in , they would have found matter of exception against them . had they been round as those of the huguenots are , then they had been circles to conjure by , a figure best pleasing to the devil , as being most contrary to a crosse : a crosse then would have pleased them , which now they abhor as a matter of high superstition , but as the case stands ▪ they seem to be pleased with churches of the same figure as their religion resembles . h. ● . a meere parabola . i come now from the conveniency to the necessity of these churches in some regards ; for albeit before their consecration they were in the power of those that gave them , to give or not to give them to those uses ; yet since that they are thereby given to god , and such things god accepts for his own , it follows that quicunque alienaverit sacrilegus erit . he will rob not only a society of men that live by and in them , but god also , as ananias and saphira did in another thing , but in the like case . but i have hinted from whence these exceptions sprang at first , viz. from stork , stubner , and muntzer : and from the same beginning it is that their exceptions against learned men issues forth , when coblers and furriers are set up to preach in hog-houses , and nasty places . and those things before mentioned would never become a stumbling block to the gentiles , as they pretend , as is evident by their crying up of their goddess diana , the magnificence of whose temple allured the world to worship her ; and had they had temples dedicated to the true god of more magnificence then diana's was of , they would have cried as loud as they did of diana , that great is the god of heaven ; whereby it is evident that such things may be outward motives of bringing men to the church , and so of seeing and learning what is there taught and practised , which they would not have been allured to , by an assembly of men met together in a pigs coat ; nay it seems by the very argument of these men themselves , that had the jews beheld as magnifick temples under christianity as they had in judaisme , they would have become christians . but i shall believe neither the one , nor the other touching the jews , till god takes away the vail drawn over their hearts . the wrath of god is not come on them for that , but for crucifying the lord of glory , and for imprecating his blood upon themselves and theirs . sect. . but , say they , the bare rejection of truth , and imbracing of errour is not all the evil that the nations generally are engaged in by the church of rome , but for to compleat and fill up the measure of their iniquities , like nebuchadnezzar , nothing less must be inflicted on the servants of the most high god , that cannot bow down to the golden image of their inventions , then the fiery surnace of persecution , many times unto death it self . whereunto i answer , first , that this is as clear as the sun shines to be a scandal upon the good laws of the land , as if they were like those of draco the athenian , of which it was said that they were written in bloud , in as much as they punished every offence alike , without suiting the penalty to the quality of the crime . indeed this would quickly leave no criminals or no men in the commonwealth , in case all offenders were subject to the same punishment how various soever their offences were , and that punishment were death . but i shall take the pains to shew that this very thing which they here impute to us , is applicable to themselves . thus then the harlot in the revelation is so called , because it 's a counterfeit of the woman , in the twelfth chapter thereof , that is the church which is there described to have the moon under her feet . she is not then the true woman , but a counterfeit , an image only . now an image may consist of different parts and matters as nebuchadnezzar did , dan. . and yet the same image still : so does this harlot consist of several men of several sects , of several principles , in several ages , and yet the same harlot , the same antichrist still , as long as the devil works generally alike in them all , whereof the pope makes one part , the anabaptist another , other sects [ if this be not comprehensive of all ] others , and all this is done by dreams , as nebuchadnezzar's image was . and because men will not fall down and worship their dreams for truths , notwithstanding they comprehend not heterodoxisms only , but horrid blasphemies against god and his son christ , and be destructive of the ordinances of god , and witnesses of the revelation , they are mad , they send forth excommunications , they preach and practice rebellion , they say they fight for god , when they fight against the king gods vicegerent , that they are the servants of the most high god , when it is plain that the devil carries them captive at his will , that they would have christ reign over them , when the devil reigns in them , that they defend our liberties when they carry us captive , that they maintain our proprieties when they plunder us , that it 's done in faith , when it 's without charity , that it is to vindicate the liberty of religion and freedom of the gospel , when they make their own passion and interest the measure of it . hereupon the beautiful feet of those that should be the messengers of peace , become swift to shed bloud , the hands that have been accustomed to handle the holy sacraments appear like bellona's hands embrued in gore , the cloven tongues of the spirit are turn'd into serpents tongues , trifidasque linguas . ( sen. in medea ) & dividing themselves into three parts , their mouths that should dictate the oracles of god , are like the mouth of a leviathan , job . . whose breath kindleth coals , and a flame goes out of it ; that hair that should be like that of the ancient of days , white as wool , to note the incorruption of truth , is speckled like snakes , ravel'd into philtres , and rowled into tresses like serpents . and could their seduced proselytes but see all this , they would want no rherorick to undeceive them : but this they have added to the very 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of their imposture , sc . that the devil appears in the mantle of samuel , and i know not by what gygs ring they walk invisible , or else god hath suffered the eyes of the people to be blinded that they cannot see , or by the same just judgement , hardened their hearts , that they cannot perceive . but if these men be in the right , then let the epistle of jude , and the of pet. c. . be for ever , as some of them would have them , not canonical ; for would they lay aside abstruse and obscure prophecies impoysoned with their presumptious glosses upon them , which are written rather to exercise their humility , then cherish their presumption , and seriously apply those evident truths to their own practices , they would find every verse , like prometheus his eagle , feeding upon their inward parts , animated by that lying spirit as by fire stollen from heaven . and since these authours mention france and other places , what civil commotions have been caused there , in order to worship : i say that they arose from men of their generation . for i must remember them out of mr. camden's eliz. that it is about seventy years since that kingdom of france laboured of such a monster as this , which as an image consisted of several parties as of several materials , one affecting aristocracy , another olygarchy , another democracy , another anarchy , all disliking the present form monarchy . mean while the preachers easily snatching the people about by this common motion , became the trumpeters of sedition , till after the assasinate of their king , they began to disagree as much about their new governours , as before they had done about their government . these men in munster or amsterdam might have passed for anabaptists , and had they kept company with knipperdoling , john of leyden , munizer , stork , or any of that rabble , they had proved so indeed , and what they would have been here , we all know , the devil working alike in them all , though of different religions . and about this time it was , that the calamities which have befallen this kingdom were a brewing [ as you may read in the english scottizing , and scots genevating for discipline , set forth by archbishop bancroft ] which these authours here falsly ascribe to the sending the scottish liturgy into scotland . suppose that ; that had been the cause , i deny it to have been a just one ; for let them tell me what warrant they have out of scripture , or orthodox writer , of rebelling against their sovereign under pretence of religion , be it true or false . if so , where is their subject of passive obedience , they so much boast of ? and if nothing can be a good ground of rebelling against the king , much less can it justify that which had no end but in the death of the king , and slavery of the people , whose liberty was pretended to be vindicated . and thus far they have but declaimed , which we having answered , as you have heard , let us examine their proofs , or logical part which all depends upon this one syllogism . sect. . if any magistrate under heaven , in the daies of the gospel hath power to impose any thing in the worship and service of god , it is given him as he is a magistrate only , or as a christian so considered , but that no such power is given by god to any magistrate appears . for answer to the first part hereof , i say that he hath power as he is a magistrate only : and this power is given him of god , in as much as magistracy is an ordinance of god. all powers of the world whatsoever are from him , even those of tyrants themselves , though permissively only : lawful powers are from him , as ordained by him . and as these are ordained by god , so hath he given them power in the worship and service of god. for i. the very heathens have given the first place to religion , as knowing by natures instinct that without religion no policy of a commonwealth can be happily instituted or administred . it is an axiom drawn out of the fourth book of plato de rep . that religio est fundamentum reipublicae , & potissima pars publici magistratus , & vere arx atque propugnaculum constituendae reipublicae , without which all the parts of a commonwealth , like the strings of an instrument , will be out of tune , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and therefore another axiom follows thereupon , that non potest immutari status religionis sine maximarum legum immutatione , & propterea non est temere importanda in rempublic am nova religionis forma : because it does dismember and disjoynt the commonwealth . st. paul disputing daily at athens touching religion , was brought unto areopagus to be judged by that court , act. . . as upon whom the business of religion was principally incumbent . ezra received the power and jurisdiction from artaxerxes speedily to execute judgement upon all contumacious persons in the business of religion , ez. . . whether unto death or banishment , or confiscation of goods , or imprisonment , ez. . , . so did cyrus and darius give permission to the jews to reedify the temple ; and to to sacrifice therein , adding money to defray the charges , ch. . , and . . nebuchad●ezzar , dan. . . commanded him to be hewed in pieces that should blaspheme the god of the hebrews . secondly , the lawyers refer religion to those things which belong to the law of nations , in as much as by the guidance of nature we know that there is a god , which is to be reverenced , & who knows not that to a magistrate belongs , not only the administration of positive laws , but of those also that belong to the laws of nature . thirdly , if it be the duty of a father of a family to instruct his children in the true religion , and to reduce them from their deviations from in : how much more doth it appertain to the magistrate , who is the father of his countrey , to take care of the religion of his subjects . fourthly , this is requir'd of a magistrate in scripture , ps . . kisse the son , and serve the lord in fear , which consisteth not only in the adoration of the son of god [ for that is common with him to every true christian ] but also in the outward administration of his kingdom . this therefore was the injunction laid upon the kings of israel to be observed when god should bring them into the land he promised them , viz. when they sit upon the throne that they write them a copy of the law in a book out of that which is before the priests and levites , deu . . and at the inauguration of j●ash . the book of the law of god was given into his hands , ch. . . and fifthly , the examples of holy princes do teach us that magistrates have the care of religion committed to them , such were moses , joshuab , david , solomon , asa , jehoshaphat , josiah , ez●kia● , &c. and albeit these men will ( what never any , but persons sprung from anabaptists did ) reject all examples and testimonies out of the old testament [ unless it be to serve their own turn , [ as i have formerly shewed them to have done in the date of their epistle , the eighth day of the third moneth ] yet this , i suppose , they will hardly deny , namely , that a father under the gospel hath and ought to have a care of his children , in matters of religion , their own practice witnesses as much , in that they instruct their children in their own principles , and keep them from baptism and steeple-houses [ as they call the churches ] which they hold to be unlawfull , &c. now if these things are given to a father of a family whose power cannot reach as far as a kings , much more to a king or other magistrate , whose jurisdiction is of a larger extent , and where of a family is but an integral part . and the same comparison holds between a master and a magistrate , which is not only a father of his countrey , but a master too : for in rome , he who was dictatour and bare the power fupream , was called the master of the people : whence it is that cicero calls caesar master , and livie witnesseth that the dictatour was so added to the consuls , that he might be their moderatour and master . if therefore it be lawfull for a master of a family , school , or society , to be defensive and offensive in cause of religion under the gospel , towards their children , scholars , and servants , how much more is it given to a magistrate towards his subjects , who bears the same relation to a master of a family , school , or society , as the whole does to a part . but , say they , if magistrates as such have such an authority , then all magistrates in all nations , have the same power , then if we lived in turkey , we must receive the alcoran and be worshippers of mahomet ; if in spain , be papists , as in hen. . his daies , sometimes protestants , as in edw. . his daies , &c. ans . this is the very argument of the papists in calvino . turcismo , l. . c. . and improved by champnaeus . but it s answered by mason de ministerio anglicano , l. . c. . and hereunto i further say , that as all magistrates in all nations have power in matters of religion , so they have the same power , but not the same skill to govern , nor the same rule to go by in governing ; as for instance ones rule is his will , another's is the law : and of those that are limitted by laws , some rule by some laws ; others , by other laws different from them . so . in matters of religion , magistrates do rule according to the book delivered unto them : some have only the book of nature put into their hands , and these have a faculty thereby given them to rule and order religion according to that , such hath the turk , and all unconverted magistrates . some have the book of the old testament delivered into their hands ; and those were sometimes to rule according to that . so dent. . . it is said , that when the king sitteth upon the throne of his kingdom , he shall write him a copy of the law in a book , out of that which is before the priests and levites , and it shall be with him , and ●e shall read therein all the daies of his life . and in chron. . . it is said that they brought out the kings son , and put upon him the crown , and gave him the testimony , and made him king , &c. some have the book of the new testament put into their hands ; and these are to order matters of religion according to this : such are all christian kings , princes , and governours . now whereas they would infer that therefore we must receive the alcoran , be papists and i know not what , according to the sole will of our governours whatever perswasion they be of ; this is not so : for albeit whatsoever they enjoyn according or not contrariant to these books be firm and inviolable , yet whatsoever they determine without or against these books is void ; so that the turk hath not a stable and inviolable power given him to impose the alcoran and to enjoyn worship to mahomet , in as much as no such rule is given by the book of nature delivered unto him : nature dictates no such thing , and therefore such a thing must be given by god himself , who is above nature , or else it must be acknowledged to be , as it is indeed , a meer imposture . the kings of israel had power given them to rule by the book of the law in matters of religion : but they that did set up idolatry , contrary to the contents of that book , did abuse their power , and in that regard their injunctions were of no force . the king of spain hath the book of the new testament put into his hands , and consequently the moral part of the old testament , but he permitting idolatry , and giving up his power into the popes hands , whose vassal he becomes , [ as all popish princes do ] he abuses this power . if any other prince does the like , he is not to be followed therein : he is neverthelesse passively to be obeyed ; that is , a christian-subject is not to resist him , but he is to submit to such punishment as he shall inflict upon him , in as much as an errour in the understanding , upon which proceeds the abuse of his power , which is accidental , does not make void his power , which is essential to him , and whereunto every soul is subject , in foro externo : the spirit of god sayes in the same breath , fear god , honour the king. he who doth any thing by command from the king contrary to the command of god , does not fear god ; and he that rebelleth or resisteth [ for it is all one ] the king , upon any pretence whatsoever , doth not honour the king , but despise him , yea and resist the ordinance of god , and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation , rom. . the same may be said of the turks forbidding a man to believe in christ , or any thing of absolute necessity to salvation , wherein he is not to be obeyed , in as much as it is not a thing contrary to the law of nature ▪ but of the institution of the god of nature , that we believe in god , and in him whom he hath sent , jesus christ his son. . secondly , they say , that since our saviour tells us , that all power is given him in heaven and in earth , if the magistrates have any such power , it is committed to them from the lord jesus christ , and written in the new testament . i answer , that no power could be given to christ , which he had not before , being god eternal , and therefore we must say , that all power was in christ naturally and essentially . but there 's a power given him [ which he had not but by gift ] dispensatorily , as he is the mediatour , which is nothing else but a rule which he observes in the salvation of men , as a thing added , to his essential power . now infidel kings receive their power from christs natural and essential power only , being not bound to believe in christ , nor to observe the rules he gives till revealed unto them , but to observe the law of nature given in paradise according to which they and their subjects ( infidels ) shall be judged . wherefore i hope they will not send us to find this in the new testament . though they should , i have a text for them there too , rom. . , , . because that which may be known of god , is manifest in them , for god hath shewed it unto them . kings that believe , receive their power , not from christs natural and essential power onely , but from his dispensatorie power , as he is mediatour and great lawgiver to his church : by which power he does not take away the former , but establish it rather . let them shew me where he takes it away ? if they do , they must shew me a contradiction to the words of the apostle , who saies , rom. . let every soul be subject to the higher powers . oh but these were heathen magistrates , say they . whereunto i answer , that if every soul must be subject to heathen magistrates , much more then , to those that believe in christ , who came not to destroy , but to rectify and perfect the law of nature . . the third thing that they say , will fall to the ground upon what has been already spoken , viz. that the apostles themselves refused to be obedient to their rulers , act. . , . when they were commanded to forbear that which they judged to be a part of the worship of god. ans . that their rulers enjoyned them not to preach christ , and therein they did well to disobey , for otherwise they had not feared god , in as much as , though their rulers were above them , god was above them both . yet had they not obeyed passively as contented to suffer reproach for the name of christ , they had erred against the fifth commandment of honour thy father and mother , which is equivalent to that in the new testament , sc . honour the king , which is clean contrary to rebelling or resisting him . these things are so plain , that i wonder any should stumble at them , but that they are so blinded with passion and self-interest , that they cannot apprehend them . . they say in the fourth place , that all emperours before constantine , were heathens , and that therefore those texts of scripture that call f●r obedience to magistrates , cannot intend obedience in matters of faith . ans . do they think that the new testament , whereof these texts of scripture are a part , belonged only to those that then lived , and not to us also ? if not , then this text of scripture , viz. ye believe in god , believe in me also , belonged not unto us , but to them only that lived then . as we have oportunity let us do good unto all men , especially to them that are of the houshold of faith , gal. . . with all the rest of the new testament belonged not to us , but to them only . they would have the old testament cashier'd : and if they reject the new , what canon shall be left to walk by ? no faith , no hope , no charity would be then necessary ; this would be a liberty indeed , here would be room enough for an enthusiast to wander in . but stay a little , those texts of scripture belonged not to them alone , who lived in those daies , but to us also [ as does all the rest of the new testament , who live under christian magistrates , and therefore they must intend obedience in matters of faith , and that because they are words indefinitely spoken , which we are not to restrain to our own sense , but rather to enlarge them into an universal proposition : let every soul be subject to the higher power , wherein ? in all things : for 't is in materia necessaria , and consequently equivalent to an universal . . i answer , that albeit all magistrates were now heathens , yet it would comprehensively intend obedience to them in matters of faith [ either active or passive ] as to competent judges of them . felix was a heathen , act. . yet he being the deputy of the roman emperour , st. paul is accused before him by tertullus : whereupon , saies st. paul , i am judged concerning the resurrection from the dead , h. e. concerning a principal article of faith . the same controversie came shortly after before festus , wherein st. paul himself acknowledged his right of judging : here , sayes he , i ought to be judged . again , fearing the injustice of the judge , he appealed unto caesar , who of right was the supreme judge , and a heathen too . other examples might be alledged out of primitive authors , but in vain , against men who will deny the sun shines , unless proved by expresse words of the new testament . but this being the very argument of champnaeus the sorbonist , page . i leave it further to be answered , if need be , by francis mason de minist . angl. l. . c. . . fifthly , they say , that if magistrates a● such have power from god , in the dayes of the gospel , to command in spiritual matters , and to punish them that obey not , then must christians surely be actually obedient , not only for wrath , but for conscience sake . answ . i deny this argument , for in commanding any thing contrary to the word and will of god , they abuse their power , either through ignorance or wilfulnesse , and in that case meerly passive obedience is to be yielded ; for all things of practice are either absolutely unlawful , and in such the magistrate is not to be obeyed , and that for conscience sake ; because god , or nature , which is the voice of god , is to be obeyed before men ; or else absolutely necessary , and in such no man can make a question , whether magistrates be to be obeyed or not ; or indifferent , which stand in equilibrio between good and evil ; the grains of the magistrates authority gives weight to that side it is put into , which must therefore incline us to obedience for conscience sake ; not that humane laws can be properly said to bind the conscience by the sole authority of the law-givers , but they do it partly by the equity of the laws , every man being obliged to promote that which conduceth to a publick good ; and especially by divine authority , which commandeth every soul to be subject to the higher powers , for his conscience sake , and not prudentially only . the question , sayes the now lord primate of ireland bramhall against militiere , is soon decided . just laws of lawful superiours , either civil or ecclesiastical , have authority to bind the conscience in themselves , not for themselves . but it is answered , say they , that all magistrates , suppose whatever they impose . but the questian is , who is to determine , for if the magistrate , or any other man or men have power from god to judge and determine , what is lawful for men to obey , then no room is left to them to dispute any of his commands , and so the crosse of christ ceases , &c. answ . the twentieth article of our church tells us , who is to determine how , and what ? the church hath power to decree rites or ceremonies , and authority in controversies of faith , and yet it is not lawful for the church to ordain any thing that is contrary to gods word , neither may it so expound one place of scripture that it be repugnant to another : wherefore although the church be a witness and keeper of holy writ , yet as it ought not to decree any thing against the same , so besides the same ought it not to enforce any thing to be believed for necessity of salvation . all things contained in this article are either indifferent , such are rites or ceremonies , or necessary , such are matters of faith : in the first it hath the power of ordaining , and yet it is not lawful to ordain any thing contrary to gods word . in the second , it has the power of explanation , and therefore it is a witnesse and keeper of holy writ ; yet it ought not so to expound one place of scripture that it be repugnant to another , nor enforce any thing besides the same to be believed as necessary to salvation . now in case they should decree any ceremonies contrary to the word of god , or impose any thing to be believed besides the same , and so stir up the magistrate to punish the contempt hereof , and the contemners be punished accordingly ; how is the cross of christ made void in this case ? truly not at all , no more then peter and john did make void the crosse of christ , in refusing to obey the rulers of the jews , forbidding them to speak any more in the name of jesus , acts . on the other side , what if no rites or ceremonies were decreed against the word of god , and nothing imposed upon them as necessary to salvation , but liberty were granted them to embrace nothing but what they could easily so allow , what sword of the magistrate would be drawn against them ? and would not the cross of christ cease in their own sense ? so then , there were no better way of answering their argument drawn from the ceasing of the crosse of christ , then by granting them their desire . in the last place , they urge the example of gallio the roman deputy of achaia , acts . , , , , . which worthy example , say they , if magistrates would be perswaded to follow , by judging and punishing only civil injuries and wrongs , and leaving spiritual differences to be decided , and judged , and punished by jesus christ according to the gospel , they would then find themselves quickly free from many inconveniencies , &c. answ . these men either speak merrily , or else they wanted examples to prove their assertion , who had none to cite , but that of the most corrupt magistrate that ever sate at the helm of government . and behold the worthy example which he gives , he judged and punished civil injuries , say they : but no such matter ▪ for the infurrection against paul was a civil injury ; they cryed for justice , or rather for injustice , in a tumultuous way against an innocent person ; and this gallio never relieved , or as much as heard him speak ; which had he done , that innocent person , st. paul ▪ would haply have proved there as formerly he had done at athens , that that god whom they ignorantly worshipt did he declare unto them . and it seems that he gave the greeks so good satisfaction in the matter , that they took sosthenes the ruler of the synagogue , and probably the ring-leader of that riot , and beat him before his face , as he sate in judgement , he not as much as rebuked them for it . as for the differences concerning worship , it is said of them , as well as of the civil ones , that gallio cared for none of those things ; who probably might have the same design upon some of them in this kind of deportment of his , that faelix had , acts . . who hoped for a bribe to be given him by paul : for this controversie in all likelihood did not end here , though the event be omitted as impertinent to this sacred story . mean while who can justifie this to be a worthy example , which was so unworthily done , viz. that he would not heed things that concern the worship of god , which all the company judged of right to have appertained unto him ? neither did he himself deny that he had , but that he would have any thing to do with such matters : for why , had not he as much authority as areopagus , acts . which was the highest court in athens , and the exactest in the world in their proceedings , as we learn from aristotle , rhet. . who took upon them to be judges of such matters , which the philosophers themselves knew right well to appertain unto them , when they brought st. paul to be tryed before them for his doctrine : neither did the apostle demurre to their bill of information , as if it had not been within their instructions for their jurisdiction . sect. . and now having answered all their objections against a magistrates power of imposing any thing in worship and service of god , as he is a magistrate only : i come to answer their second part of the proposition ; and their reasons to confirm it ; viz. that no magistrate hath any such power , as he is a christian . for answer whereunto , the contrary is evident . for as every member of the church consisteth of an outward , as well as of an inward man , so the government of the church regardeth the outward , as well as the inward man , which consisteth in defending it , and delivering it from its enemies , as also in ordering and adorning it . as then , sayes grotius , the universal providence of god , which watcheth over all things though it be of it self sufficient to dispose and execute every thing : yet for the demonstration of its manifold wisdome , it useth ( potestatibus vicariis ) the substitution of worldly powers , for the conservation of the common society of men , whence it is that they are called gods. so also the special providence of god watching over his church adopteth the same powers to himself as his vicars and patrons of the true faith kissing christ , on whom also he confers his name , that is to say annointed . these are kings & princes that govern together with christ , not in equal share of power , but by delegation and vicarship only . wherefore since things subordinate do not crosse one the other , neither does it misbecome the majesty of christ to govern the principalls of his kingdome immediately by himself , the other partly by himself and partly by others , [ as it is also most certain that he uses the help of angels ] it follows that an earthly kingdome even as if it respects holy things nothing hinders the heavenly and divine empire of christ . adversaries to this doctrine on the one side are papists and presbyterians , both acknowledging a temporal power in order to spirituals , but one of them putting this power into the hands of the pope , the other into the hands of the presbytery , those constituting imperium supra imperium , these imperium in imperio at least . and they prove it by this argument ; viz. the magistrate is not of the essence of the church , therefore he 's not necessary to the government thereof . answer , so neither is the magistrate of the essence of a physician , or a merchant , or of a mason ; yet he equally governs them all . they both object , that kings are enjoyned to adore the church . answer , that is to say , to adore christ in the church , sayes hugo grotius , there is a trope in that part of the prophecy , neither can the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , sayes he , be rigidly urged , unlesse we will transferre that majesty to the church , which is due to christ who is prince of the earth , apoc. . . it cannot be denied , but that as the church-men have a distinct charge from and above others ; yea even kings themselves , so there is a proportionable honour , and a submission due to them , heb. . . obey them that have the rule over you , and submit your selves , for they watch for your souls , as they that must give account , &c. but i answer , that that is enjoined to prince and people , viz. that they submit themselves to their pastors , ( quatenus ) as they speak unto them the word of god , as the holy ghost himself expounds it , v. . of the same chapter . the king as he is a sheep of the fold of christ , is fed by the bishop or pastor . the bishop as a sheep and a subject is fed by the king. the bishop as he teaches the king , and administers holy things unto him , is above the king ; that is , in the actual execution of his functions . but the king , as he establishes these things by wholesome laws and commands , the execution of these functions , is above the bishop : as the sun is above the moon , so the moon may be above the sun in a several respect . in respect of the distance from the center of the world , the sun is ever above the moon ; but in respect of elevation above the horizon , the moon may be & is many times above the sun : . adversaries to the foresaid truth on the other side are those with whom we have here to doe , who will not have the church in any wise to be subject to any temporal power , in as much as they receive no such from christ . and to prove this , they urge here in the first place , that the lord jesus christ would never by any outward force compell men to receive him or his doctrine ; for when his disciples , supposing he might use violence , [ as under the law ] would have had him command fire to come down from heaven [ as elias did ] to consume them that would not receive him , christ turned and rebuked them , saying , ye know not what spirit ye are of , the son of man is not come to destroy mens lives , &c. luc. . , , . ans . the fact of elias was extraordinary , and not justifiable by the law , as they pretend ; and so had this been in our saviour , had he done it at their request . but what had this been to the reciving of , or rejecting his doctrine ? the question was touching the reception of his person , and the reason why those samaritans did not that act of civility to him as to entertain him , was because either they supposed he would not have come upon their invitation , or else they would not invite him by reason of the animosity that was between the jews and samaritans , as supposing that a friend of hierusalem or an inhabitant thereof neither deserved , nor would accept of entertainment from them . and all this is clear by that conference of the woman of samaria with our saviour , john . . how is it , saies she , that thou being a jew askest drink of me that am a woman of samaria ? for the jews have no dealings with the samaritans . they further urge , john . , . if any man hear my words , and believe not , i judge him not , for i came not to judge the world , &c. ans . there are two comings of christ , one secretly and in humility that he might be judged and delivered up ; the other manifestly and majestickly that he might judge and remunerate . now if christ had come at first manifestly , he had never been crucified , for had they known it they would not have crucified the lord of glory , and had he come majestickly with a great retinue of men or angels , which he might have commanded , the whole roman empire would have trembled at his presence , so far would pilate the r●man procuratour have been from calling him before his tribunal . nevertheless he did sometimes use outward force in things appertaining to the worship of god , giving us thereby not only an adumbration of his spiritual kingdome ; but also a copy for magistrates his vicegerents to write after : for finding in the temple those that sold oxen , sheep , and doves ( john . . ) and the changers of money sitting , he made a scourge of small cords , and drove them all out of the temple , and the sheep and the oxen , and poured out the changers money . the like did he at another time , mat. . , . for the distance of time and other circumstances do prove that these were different acts of our saviour as all expositours agree in this chapter from the second to the thirteenth verse , we read how he sent two of his disciples to press an ass and a colt to carry him as it were to his coronation , the which was obeyed , as all good subjects will their sovereign : upon this ass they put foot-clothes , and mounted him , the multitudes that met him spread their garments in the way , and strewed it with branches of trees , crying on either side , hosanna to the son of david , which is as much as to say , god save the king. the first thing he did after his coming to his royal city was the reformation of things amiss in the worship of god , went into the temple , cast out them that bought and sold there : and there he cured the kings evil too , h. e. such diseases as could not be cured but by this king of the jews , v. . to teach all kings which claim under him to employ their first and chiefest endeavours , after their enthronization towards matters appertaining to the worship of god , and in works of charity towards such as are in extream necessity . but should our saviour have used such authority as often as occasion presented it self , he would have been dreaded by all men , and crucified by none , and so prophecies would not have been fulfilled . nevertheless he ceaseth not to govern the church , and in that sense to judge the world by the magistrates and ministers of the word : for as grotius saies , some actions of christ in the administration of his kingdom are [ as he calls them ] terminal , viz. such as concern the beginning and ending of his administration . such as concern the beginning of his administration are the giving of laws to his church , under hope of eternal reward , or under pain of everlasting damnation . that which concerns the end is a definitive jurisdiction at the last day , whereof as he hath done the one , so will he do the other himself alone , wherein he hath neither companion nor vicegerent . other actions of christ are middle actions which come between these two terms , which partly concern the inward , partly the outward man. he acteth in the inward man by his spirit several waies , viz. by enlightning , by converting , by strengthening against temptations , by remitting or retaining sins : yet he useth herein the outward ministry of men , viz. of pastou●● , private men , kings , every one in his several capacity , not as his vicars or vicegerents ; these being not able to produce actions congenial to those of christ ; but as his ministers only , being apt to the production of such actions as may subserve to the principal cause in matters aforesaid . the actions of christ that concern the outward man , consist in defending and delivering the church , and in ordering and adorning the same , as i said before , and herein he uses the vicarship of his magistrates , as being apt to produce actions , in this respect congenial to his own , whom he therefore calls his christs , h. e. his anointed ones . and now whereas they say , that the apostles were far from propagating the gospel by outward force . it is evident that the ordinary power of the apostles and of the magistrates are different things : and who talks of propagating the gospel by outward force in either ? our king is the defender of the faith by the sword that he holds : he goes not about to propagate it [ if by propagation you mean plantation too ] by force and violence . his majesty is furnished with an aphorism of his learned and judicious grandfather against that , viz. that it is never good to use too much severity or bloudshed in matters of religion : god never loves to plant his church by violence and bloud . king james aphorism . this his majesty leaves to the spanish cruelties in the indies , and to their inquisition at home . and as for the apostles , 't is true they did not propagate the gospel by force , [ though mischief enough befell those at whom they shook off the dust of their feet ] but yet they did govern established churches by force , which was a delivery over unto satan , cor. . . for the punishment of the flesh . and no other manner of punishment could be inflicted on offenders by them , while there was no temporal magistrate to impower them , or at most , none but such as was like their beloved gallio , who cared for none of those things : yet this , take him devil , a man would think were more terrible then take him jaylor , which they have printed in capital letters . hence saies st. paul , gal. . . i would that those were cut off that trouble you , which had it been unlawfull to do , had been unlawfull in him to wish . as to the dividing of the inheritance which our saviour refused [ which they have put in the margin as a buttress to hold up the arch and concameration of their argument ] i say , that our saviour would not always be vacant to satisfy the avarice of a fellow , ( who followed him for such ends ) to the neglect of a business which he had but a short time to dispatch in the world , though such was his zeal of gods house , that he could not forbear the ridding of the temple of sacrilegious persons . and thus their first argument falls to the ground with the improvement thereof , to make the ruine of it the greater . sect. . for the further improvement of their foregoing argument , they alledge that place of the apostle , cor. . . not for that we have dominion over your faith , but are helpers of your joy : for by faith ye stand . ans . for exposition whereof we say , that one thing amongst others , that gave the apostle occasion of writing this epistle , was the command given by him of delivering the incestuous person to satan for the punishment of the flesh . the apostle having founded a church at corinth , false doctours building on this foundation perswaded them [ as these authours would perswade others in the like cases ] that st. paul plaied the part of a proud domineering fellow , and of one who took more upon him then belonged unto him . hereupon the apostle excuses himself and saies , that though necessity urged to a just severity against the sin , yet he assumed to himself no dominion over their faith : no , for that were to pull up that foundation on which they stood , for by faith ye stand , and it were to destroy that which he had first layed . but then some may say , that though the apostle had power in matters belonging to religious practice , yet it seems hereby that he had none in matters of saith . whereunto i answer , that it 's one thing to have power in matters of faith , and another to have power over matters of faith . to have power over matters of faith is the prerogative of christ alone , he being the only law-giver to his church : to give laws to the church is actio terminalis , a terminal action of christ , and herein he admits of no vicarship or vicegerency , as i have already said , which is such as the popes pretend to in making new articles of faith : and that this is the meaning of this place , is the opinion of some that are no enemies to our present adversaries . nevertheless to have power in matters of faith appertains to the church , as i have said before , out of the twentieth article of our church . and that the apostle had such a power is evident in the case of hymenaus and philetus , whom st. paul delivered unto satan for making shipwrack concerning faith , tim. . . the same apostle also sayes , whosoever loves not the lord jesus , let him be anathema maranatha , corinth , . . which some call an excommunication unto death , others interpret it , the lord cometh : they are both the same in effect , at least they imply a greater degree of punishment then the former ; the delivery unto satan being only for the punishment of the flesh , that the spirit may be saved in the day of the lord jesus . but the lord coming once in vengeance , it is a fearful thing to fall into his hands , as sayes the apostle , heb. . . the second place they urge is , matth. . . sc . the princes of the gentiles exercise dominon over them but it shall not be so among you . answ . that if it be so , that in the perpetual office of pastors the use of the keyes has a kind of jurisdiction , as i have proved as well by positive places of scripture , as by the real effects that accompany it in the apostles , we must search out some other meaning by this place , then the denyal thereof to them . and then it must be either this , viz. you look after easie seats , like those of the kings of the gentiles , who rule in ease and pleasure ; but it shall not be so among you : so doctor hammond . or else it must be this , viz. that the apostles were not to strive for dominion one over another , but to content themselves with what they had over the churches . or lastly , it must be that which i find in the treatise of the power of the pope touching the book of saternelly the jesuite , written anno . the princes of the gentiles exercise dominion over them : but it shall not be so among you ; that is , you shall not exercise dominion over the nations by atemporal sword ; whereunto you your selves are subject , as is learnt from the example of paul , who declined not the jurisdiction of caesar , acts . but which exposition soever of these three obtains , how does this prove what these men have in design , viz. that no christian magistrate is to be a defender of the faith ? if they will grant him to be a magistrate , they must allow him a superiority , and vest him in a power , else they will but mock him : and this power extends to matters appertaining to the worship of god , as has been likewise proved . the hird place , pet. . , . feed the flock of god — neither as being lords over gods heritage , but being ensamples to the flock . answ . by what has been said it is evident , that they had a power over the flock of christ , and that not only a power accompanying the word preached , but a power of oversight ; for so much is cleat out of the very place they here quote , viz. v. . feed the flock of god which is among you , taking the oversight thereof : and acts ▪ . . they are called overseers ( the very name bishop is an overseer . ) this power was exercised then not in doctrine only , but in discipline too : this discipline reached to the punishing of the body . therefore we must distinguish of power : as . that there is a power instituted by christ , or exercised by his apostles , as has been evidenced : that such a pow●r may be exercised no man can well deny , for whosoever does , is a heretick . . there is a power of confederation or consent : the which confederation or consent was either instituted in primitive times , and derived down from thence to these our dayes , such as is jurisdiction meerly ecclesiastical ; and who disobeys or separates from this power , is a schifmatick at the least : or else it has been taken up by particular congregations or conventicles of men , and this is the power that these men would have , which is a meer mock power , under which they will play fast and loose at their pleasure , not unlike that of your episcopus puerorum , serving only for a christmasse season , condemned by the council of basil in pragmatica sanctione , fol. . . there is a power neither of gods donation , nor of apostolical prescription , nor of ecclesiastical institution , nor of congregational confederation [ which i said before to be no proper power at all , in as much as it is not any way obligatory to him who is under it ] but of mens own assumption , which is either imperium supra imperium ; such is the popes : or imperium in imperió & ab imperio ovulsum ; such is the presbyterians , as it hath been practised in scotland . or which is tyrannical in the execution of it , by imposing new articles of faith or doctrine , contrary to the form of sound words , as the pope does do , or cutting off mens heads by inspiration , as some of the other limb of antichrist , the fanaticks have done : and so they are not to lord it over gods heritage . the fact of thomas schucker , the disciple of mel●hi●r rinchius , is not [ unlesse it be for the horridnesse of it ] to be omitted . this schucker in the middest of a numerous assembly of his own gang , pretending he was inspired from heaven , cryed , woe , woe , woe , commanded a sword to be brought him , and withall he called to his brother john to kneel down upon his knees ; his parents with others asking him what he meant by this preparation , he bade them be of good chear , he being about to do nothing but what should be revealed unto him from the heavenly father . the eyes and minds of all being intent upon this new spectacle , this mad prophet drew 〈◊〉 word , and therewith divided his said brothers head from his shoulders , which struck his parents with great grief of heart , and the rest with terrour . being apprehended by the magistrate , who would allow him no more liberty of conscience [ for if he had , his own head might have gone after ] he suffered condign punishment for this his cruel fratricide , never all this while repenting of the crime , but constantly affirming , that this will of god was revealed unto him from heaven . this tragedy happened in fano galli . anno . and whether some men of this generation have not dyed much like him , i leave it to those that beheld them . 't is true , as these men further alledge , that the apostles were embassadours for the prince of peace , and in his stead did pray the unbelievers to be reconciled to god. and what if they would not embrace the gospel , but remain without the pale of the church ? what had they to do to judge those that were without ? cor. . . what could be expected from such , lesse then revilings , persecutions , defamations ? and what lesse is expected by god from them , then blessing , sufferings , intreatings , patience , long-suffering , love unfeigned , & c. ? sect. . the next place alledged by them is , matth. . the parable of the tares ; whereof it is said , let both grow together till the harvest . answ . i agree with them , that this place does not only respect the second , but the first table , the subject whereof is the worship of god. but withall i answer first , with that expositor they mention , that it seems not to note the duty of the civil magistrate , but the event of gods providence , namely , that god would permit the cohabitation of the wicked in the world with the just ; not that the m●gistrates or ministers should permit them , and not by civil punishment or ecclesiastical remove them out of the church or world , if the quality of the offence so required it . but say they , if men did not fight against the truth , they would not so eminently contradict their own sayings , for who can believe that it should be the mind of god to permit the cohabitation of the wicked in the world with the just , as aforesaid , and yet the magistrate should not permit them , but remove them by civil punishment out of the world ? hath the magistrate power to remove those out of the world , that god would have permitted to live ? how soon may a magistrate , if guided by such a doctrine ; bring the bloud of the innocent upon himself and nation ? answ . here is no contradiction at all : neither doth a magistrate bring innocent bloud upon himself by going about to put those to death [ if they deserve it ] whom the event of gods providence keeps alive . when a traytour or murderer makes an escape , the event of gods providence keeps him alive , whom the magistrate would have put to death , and this without bringing innocent bloud upon himself . abroham did well in going about to sacrifice his son isaack , having a command from god to do it , yet the event of gods providence kept him alive , genes . . the gibeonites were of the hivites , whom god commanded the israelites to destroy , yet the event of gods providence kept them alive , joshua . the israelites had commission from god to fight against the benjamites the first and second time , yet the event of gods providence gave them the better till the third encounter , judges . how these particulars came to passe , may be read in their several stories . and how such events may happen frequently under a magistate using his power , is thus made good . the wise creator of all the world having afforded to every creature , a means most suitable to its nature , for the accomplishment of its end and perefection , and for the removal of impediments which lie in its way thereunto , has done no lesse to man in as much as for the encouragement of his obedience , and the removal of sin out of the way to happinesse ; [ both which are moral things ] he plies him with exhortations , comminations , blessings , curses , examples , precepts , which are moral too ; and all this may be done by the ministers of the word , or of others in their capacities . and because , if he stayed here , the major part , which have lesse of natures first institution in them , would be never the better for all these ; he hath ordained the magistracy , so to be a terrour to evil works to execute wrath on them that do evil , rom. . without which no man would be able to maintain his proprieties in goods and lands , preserve his life and liberty , and consequently all civil society [ which not men only , but even beasts , birds , fishes , and in sects themselves seem to affect ] would fall to the ground . yet let the magistrate do what he can [ and let him do but justice ] the wicked will have a cohabitation among the just , and that for these reasons ; viz , because he is not omniscient and sees not all wickednesse : . although he sees it , yet he may not by testimonies be able to convince all men of their wicked deeds : . because that though he may convince , yet all wickednesse is not capital whereof persons may be convinced , without which a man cannot be taken out of the world : and this is the event of gods providence . if they say that he might have used natural means to obstruct so great an evil as sin is , and to advance the happinesse of man ; i say then , either the means must be made connatural to man , or man to the means : if the first , this is done already , in as much as moral and civil means are most connatural to man , a free agent and animal politicum . if the second , its impossible to be done in as much as it were to make him an animate thing , or at the least a brute , which work , this without choice and that without proper appetition ; and consequently he must not have made him at all : for it is well said of lactantius de falsa sapientia , which is of his works , l. . c. . who considering the devotion of plato , who gave thanks to nature for three things . . that he was born a man , and not a beast . . that he was a man rather then a woman , a grecian and not a barbarian . . that he was an athenian , and lived in the time of socrates . then which , saies he , what can be said more like a dotard , as though , if he had been a barbarian , a woman , or an asse , he had been the same plato that he was , and not that very thing which had been so born . ? if they say that god then may use supernatural means by working transcendently above the wills of men without destroying their nature or abridging their freedome . whereunto it is answered that as , had god done the other , he would have destroyed his providence touching the creation of man ; so , should he do this , he would destroy his providence preparatory to ●he last judgement , wherein every man shall receive according to that he hath done in the body whether good or evil . but though this exposition be pious and not to be rejected , yet this parable , methinks more naturally admits of another , which i shall lay before the reader , and which may import the duty of the magistrate and minister of gods word , as well as the event of gods providence . it is thus , there are two sorts of evils which may grow up with the good seed of the law of nature implanted in man in his first creation , or of the gospel given for mans renovation . the one sort may be compared to tares ( as here ) whereof there is a sort which the greeks , say to be 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 such as grows up of it self among the wheat in an over-moist and corrupt earth , without any seed sown at all . such are those evils either in manners or opinion which though they seem to us , that cannot see all things , to grow of themselves , yet they owe their beginning to the enemy the devil , who first corrupted & endeavours daily more & more to corrupt our nature . the other sort of evils are compared to thorns and b●iars , heb. . . whose end is to be burned , such as are desperate and incorrigible sinners , as may be clearly seen by the scope of the apostle in that place . the first sort are evils of infirmity for the most part , which are entwisted with our nature , as tares are with corn , and therefore cannot be cut down , unlesse the good grain goes down with them , all men even the best being subject unto them . should the magistrate cut down all these , he must cut himself down for company : and should s. paul have delivered men to satan for these , he must have given himself into his hands : for though he knew nothing by himself , yet was he not hereby justified . never the less he used a severity towards himself by keeping down his body and bringing it into subjetion , as a magistrate may do towards his subjet's for reforming of lesser evils and preventing of greater ; nay s. paul had the messenger of satan , a thorn in his flesh , sent to him , least he should be puffed up with the abundance of revelations , cor. . . the second sort are evils of presumption which like brayars and thorns are not necessarily entwisted with our nature , but yet growing up amongst the good grain , will choak it , and therefore calls for present cursing , and lastly for burning , least in the end of the world , it being all become bryars and thorns , there would remain no harvest to the great husbandman to be brought into his barnes by his reapers : and so this world destroys gods providence preparatory to the last judgement on the right hand , as the forementioned supposition would destroy it on the left . sect. . their next argument is taken from the fallibility of magistrates , which renders them , they say , uncapable of judging . answ . it is true that no man is infallible : if he were , he were no man ; they needed not to have produced the authority of s. peter to prove it . and now brethren i wot that through ignorance ye did it , as did also your rulers . the which place proves it but weakly neither , in as much as there appeared much of malice in the condemnation of our saviour , in denying and delivering him to be crucisied , whom pilate himself was determined to let go . they did it ignorantly only in this respect , namely , that they knew him not to be the lord of glory . s. peter makes no mention of their malice , though great , least thereby they might have thought the door of mercy to have been shut against them , and so they might have come to the same end as their ring-leader judas did . here was a double defect which occasioned a wrong judegment , one was of knowledge and a well informed understanding , the other was of an honest purpose of mind ; neither of these does destroy the power of a magistrate , the rulers remained rulers still , notwithstanding their ignorance or malice in this action . indeed plato saies , beatas civitates fore si out philosophi regnarent , out reges philosopharentur : 't is true , that happy is that city where princes are qualified with gifts suitable to their high calling . but if he want , it as if philosophy did give a right to anothers kingdom , or were necessarily required to the establishment of his own . i say , that then it was a saying becoming one that held a commodity of goods and prices , whereby he would take from some , that which was their own , and give to others that which belonged to them , lact. l. . ● . this consideration therefore serves only , and that very well too , as a motive to care and conscience in the exercise of power , chr. . . jehoshaphat speaking of this very matter , gave to his judges , whom he constituted , this charge , take heed and do it , or take heed the doing of it . moses , exod. . . said to god , who am i , that i should go to pharaoh , & that i should bring forth the children of israel out of egypt ? yet god would have him go and do it , exo. . . . if then the fallibility of a magistrate as being a man , or the conscience of his own weaknesse as such a person , was no argument in those daies , against the power of the magistrate or the exercise of it , how much lesse is it now under the gospel , when the light is ordinarily greater then in those times theirs was ? hereunto they will answer two things . . that magistrates under the old testament had advantages which ours have not . whereunto i shall reply anon in its due place , . that there is no such need of magistrates now : for in those daies [ the times of the gospel ] all shall know the lord. hereunto i answer , that if all , then the magistrates especially , who have a special promise for it , as is evident from what has been alledged . if arguments drawn from the law of moses prevail not with them , what will they say to the law of nature ? thus then i argue . a magistrates care ought to be about that whereupon principally depends the establishment of a commonwealth , and the suppression of opinions and men that would ruine it . but upon religion principally depends the establishment of a commonwealth , as is made good from the judgement of the very heathen themselves , as histories , and what before has been shewed , do witnesse ; therefore a magistrate ought to have a principal care of religion , even by the law of nature . this care of religion consists gener●lly in two things , . in setting up of religion it self , without which can be expected no blessing from god upon , nor obedience from the people to the magistrate under the notion of gods vicegerent . . in avoiding of differences in opinions : for from diversities of opinions men usually fall into diversity of affection and interest , which tends to the ruine of a commonwealth . 't is true that as in a state , provided that all the citizens hold the same fundamental maxims necessary to the undergoing of duties essential to its conservation , the magistrate may tolerate amongst them a difference in many other matters of lesse importance . so it is in the church as long as every man upholds those opinions which make for the honour of god , and peace and unity of the church , in the communion whereof he lives , lesser things may be born with . but shall every man be his own judge herein ? no , for there 's a threefold judgement , a judgement of discretion , a judgement of direction , and a judgement of jurisdiction : every christian has a judgement of discretion , prove all things , hold fast that which is good , thes . . . by applying the rule of the holy scripture to his own private consolation and edification , the pastours of the church [ who are the watchmen placed over the israel , h. e. the church and house of god ] have a judgement of direction to expound the holy scriptures to others . the chief pastours to whose care the regiment of the church is committed in a more special manner , have not this only , but a higher degree of judgement , which is of jurisdiction , to enjoyn , to reform , to censure , to condemn , to bind , to loose judicially and authoritatively in their respective charges . if their key shall err , whether it be that of knowledge or jurisdiction , they are accountable to their respective superiours from thence to a national , and last of of all to a general council . and that such councils be called , such persons be settled , such charges be by the said persons daily executed , is the magistrates duty to see to , and his prerogative to command or allow . but on what mistakes , say they , by magistrates , are continued in holland 〈◊〉 religion , & c ? ans . if such mistakes are continued in magistrates , how would these be multiplied , if every one of the people were left to himself ? surely for one that is now , there would be ten thousand in that case . and whereas they urge popes , councils , oecumenical and national that they have erred . it is answered , that when we yield obedience to the pope , or be concluded by the councils and synods which they alledge , they will be found to say something to the purpose . but since they cannot prove these things , they might have spared as great a many of lines , as i mean to spare in their confutation : yet the . article of our c●urch yields more then they have proved , viz. that general councils may not be gathered together without the commandment and will of princes : and when they be gathered together [ for as much as they be an assembly of men , whereof all be not governed with the spirit and word of god ] they may erre , and sometimes have erred , even in things pertaining unto god : wherefore things ordained by them , as necessary unto salvation , have neither strength nor authority , unless it may be declared that they be taken out of the holy scripture . now what use will our adversaries here make of this our gratification ? even this , viz. what security then can a magistrate have that he does well ? answ . as much security as a judge that condemns a prisoner at the bar , in as much as the notitia juris is clear . the probation of the fact depends upon witnesses , whereupon if a guiltlesse person be condemned , the judge has done his duty by ordering the formality of the tryal , and so has delivered his own soul . sect. . next they argue from the royal law of liberty , viz. whatsoever ye would that men should do unto you , even so do ye unto them , for this is the law and the prophets . and those that are forward to persecute , would not be very zealous in their proceedings , if they were sure that those they persecute should have the power on their sides to meet the same measure unto them . answ . that when a man is punished for the committing of any thing unlawful to be done , or omitting that which is unlawful to be left undone , this only is a persecution in scripture sense . but when a man is condemned for omitting that which ought , or committing that which ought not to be done [ such are things which are either absolutely evil or good in themselves , or being indifferent are made so by the intervention of humane authority ] this is no persecution , but justice : and whosoever shall do such justice upon any man , and be willing that the prisoner should do so to him , the prisoner would either do it according to the law as his rule , and would proceed to sentence , secundum allegata & probata as to matter of fact , and so he would do well : for in reason [ from whence a well ordered will has its denomination ] he could not refuse it : or else the prisoner coming to judge , would do it in an arbitrary way , without or against law , and not secundum allegata & probata for matter of fact , but on his own head , or some underhand information of some whom the party accused shall never see nor know [ as has been practised under the late tyranny ] he were mad if he should . who would be contented that another mans bowl should have a byass , and his own have none at all ? therefore arist . rhet. . . sayes that it is most convenient that all things be determined by laws , and that as few things as may be be left to the power of the judges : and that . because it is easier to find one and a few , then many that are prudent enough to give laws , or determine causes . . because laws are made upon mature deliberation going before their sanction , but sentences are given on a sudden , which renders it difficult for the judges to do right to every man. . because [ which is the weightiest of all reasons ] the judgement of a law-giver is not of singularities and present matters , but of things future and universal : but a concional auditor and judge are to determine of present and definite things , where oftentimes either love , or hatred , or private commodity comes in ; in so much that they cannot sufficiently look into the merit of the cause , but either private interest or trouble will darken their judgement . but there is no good body of laws , wherein there is not a lex talionis , h. e. a provision made , that any man , whatsoever he be , may have his remedy against him that has done him wrong , though it were his own master that did it , for otherwise a tyranny would be introduced . and on the other side , that a man may make or expect a retribu●ion for a favour done , otherwise ingratitude would take place . both which are grounded upon this , namely , whatsoever ye would that men should do unto you , the same do ye also unto them : and the same measure ye meet shall be measured to you again , matth. . ▪ so sacred a thing was gratitude , that the heathen ( as aristotle testifies , eth. . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ) put the temple of the graces in the way , that a man cannot walk the street , but he must stumble upon the duty . and the civil law puts it in the sole power of the parent to disinherit his son for the contrary ; whose examination is to be rescinded , and he deprived of his undeserved liberty , cod. . c. . and though our laws punish not unthankfulness to the fathers of our flesh , the fathers of our spirits , the fathers of our fortunes [ for indeed it being comprehensive of all wickednesse , no one punishment is enough for it ] yet neverthelesse the temple of the graces is not shut against these , the law is open to these with us : and therefore that royal law is so far observed . but yet in as much as the law is an universal precept , as one calls it , in the universality whereof all particular cases cannot be comprehended , therefore something of necessity must be left to the prudence of the judge to determine as he thinks meet , provided it be not against the law , which is immutable . in which case why should any man prejudge his judge , who is sworn to observe this royal law ? indeed should he do so , then what they seem to threaten by the objection here made , they might have just cause of fear : for they do as good as say , let them look to it , for trump may turn up on our side again , which if it does , the same rigour which they use to us , shall we use towards them ; a resolution , not only contrary to this royal law , but to christs commandment under the gospel , mátth . . . resist not evil , but whosoever shall smite thee on the right cheek , turn to him the other also . but to answer for them as much as possibly can be said in favour of them : they may say , that they give this as a rule , which in common prudence a man would observe , not but that they would make demonstration of meekness and lenity , should the disposal of affairs fall into their hands . but i answer , that this is more then they can promise ; for so said parmenio to alexander [ when darius offered him ten thousand talents for the redemption of prisoners , with all the land he had on this side euphrates , and one of his daughters for a wife to boot ] i would take it if i were alexander ; and so would i , said alexander , if i were parmenio , plut. in vita alex. private persons know not what themselves would be , should they come to sit at the helm of government . then things that make for the interest of themselves , or their partisans , may seem convenient , which were before abominable in their eyes . one did not know that he should account the universities the only remaining glory of the nation , till he came to be head of one of the fairest colledges in the enigmatical pillars were then no longer mysteries of iniquity . another would have christ. church passe for a collegiate dean and prebends , till he found leases to be invalid without the prophane title of cathedral . a third , and he guilty of the magnum latro●inium of all , was at first for a popular government , till he had gotten upon the back of the populasse , which he perswaded that it could not mannage its liberty without a rider . and then — — what then ? as a reward of their ingratitudes to the king , the father of his country , non equitem dorso , nec fraenam depulit ●re . sect. . another-argument is , that as it is not any wayes lawful from the word of god , for christian magistrates in the dayes of the gospel , to destroy and root out the contrary minded in religious matters [ though idolaters ] so such proceedings may sometimes prove inconsistent with the very being of nations : for suppose any nation were wholly heathenish idolaters , and the word of god coming in a-amongst them , should convert the chief magistrate , and one twentieth part of the nation more ; must he then with that twentieth part destroy all the other nineteen if they will not be converted , but continue in their heathenish idolatry ? it cannot possibly be supposed to be warrantable : and this reason holds good against the rooting up and destroying of hereticks out of the world , because an excommunicated person is as a heathen or infidel , matth. . . besides , the lord calls some at the third , some at the sixth , some at the ninth hour , others at the eleventh : he therefore that destroyes any one , though an idolater , &c. or hinders his conversion , and so brings eternal losse to him . answ . that a magistrate providing for the establishment of a commonwealth , ought to temper his severity with christian prudence . now it were no prudence at all for him and his twentieth part to wage war with the other nineteen [ for a war this were like to beget ] in as much as instead of establishing , this would ruine himsulf and his commonwealth , with religion and all . suppose then that he had nineteen parts on his side , and only the twentieth part remained idolaters , were he to destroy that twentieth part ? no surely , we neither think so , nor ever said so : the reason is , because they were never yet converted [ they have not as yet cognitionem juris , the ignorance whereof excuseth them ] and who knows but that they may be in due time converted ? the question is , whether in case of revolt , ( after conversion ) to idolatry , or the like , and in case they remain , obstinate , going on to blaspheme the , church-censures may not reach them , and the civil sword over take them , and cut them off , that the infection spread no farther ? we answer , that they may ; and this is law. in cod. justin . l. . tit. . de paginis , & sacrificiis & templis . qui post sanctum baptisma in errore pagan●r . mament , ultimo supplicio plectunt . let those that ask baptisme remain in the errour of the pagans , be put to death ; but for th●se that are not yet baptized , let them without delay take care that their children be baptized : but let the elder first be taught the scriptures , according to the canons ; and hereunto there is no such penalty annexed ; mean while all men are fobridded to assay any thing of pagan superstition , under pain of corporal torment , and condemnation to the stanneries or perpetual banishment . lege qui , ub . supra . there is a difference then betwixt a heathen , and one that is as a heathen . a heathen ought not to be excommunicated [ for it is impossible ] nor punished with death for his idolatry , though some one that is as a heathen , that is , one that hath been a christian and becomes heathen again , may ; and hereby his conversion is not hindred : for the apostle to the hebrews sayes , that its impossible for such to be renewed by repentance , heb ▪ . . in the next place they deny that the kings majesty hath the same power in causes ecelesiastical , that the godly kings had amongst the jews ; for say they , albeit the kings of the jews bad power to punish-idolaters and blasphemers , and some other transgressors of the then law of god ; yet who tells them that the magistrates under the gospel-dispensation have such power ; hath the lord jesus said any such thing , or if he has , where is it writen , nay where is it written from the beginning of genesis to the end of the revelation , that magistrates under the gospell should have the same power in religious causes , as those under the law ? if the judicial law be a rule for magistrates under the gospel to walk by , then why must it be mangled in pieces by some sort of sinners with death , and not cursers of parents , man-stealers , adulterers , sabbath-breakers which were so punishable by the judicial law ? i answer , that that place of the prophet esai . . . is between the beginninh of genesis and the end of the revelation , wherein it is said that kings shall be [ h. e. under the gospel ] thy [ that is the churches ] nursing fathers , and queens thy nursing mothers . the original is , giving suck or nourishers . now she that gives milk and nourishment to a child will not suffer the least mote to be in it , that may do the child hurt , much lesse such things as may poyson it . so it is with a christian magistrate . it is not enough to see that the milk of the word be duly distributed , to the people , but also that blasphemers and idolaters to the poyson of religion , be rooted out . to what purpose is it for him to defend her from rapine and violence from abroad [ as it is v. ] if he leaves perdition and ruine at home ? and now whereas they say why does the magistrate punish idolatry and blasphemy with death , and not cursing of father or mother , man-stealing , adultery , sabbath breaking ? answ . because idolatry and blasphemy are so punishable by the law of nature , as well as by the judicial law of moses . job . . sayes job's wife to him , doest thou yet retain thine integrity ? curse god and die . whereby it seems that present death was the sure reward of blaspheming god. and job . . if sayes he , i beheld the sun when it shined , or the moon walking in brightnesses and my heart hath been secretly enticed , or my mouth hath kissed my hand : this also were an iniquity to be punished by the judge , for i should have denied the god that is above . from whence it is evident , that heathenish idolatry is punishable by the magistrate ; but how ? surely not with lesse then what is due to blasphemy , which see here made a consequent of idolatry . the other sins mentioned in their objection are made capital by the judicial law alone [ which indeed is in most things practicable under the gospel too , if it seems necessary or expedient to the magistrate , and not otherwise ] only as for sabbath breaking , there can be none where there is no sabbath binding , nor has been since the abrogation of the law. wherefore this their argument taken from things of different natures thus jumbled together , is as very a fallacy of many interrogations , as this is , viz. nonne socrates , plato , aristoteles , petrus , bucephalus , leviathan , sunt animalia rationalia ? for as some of these are animalia rationalia , some not ; so some of those appertain to the judicial law , some not : some may be the subject of a positive law under the gospel if it seems good to the law-giver ; some , as namely sabbath breaking , cannot , because the jewish day , and the jewish observation of it is abrogated . hereunto they add , that the kings of the jews had advantages [ which we want ] to direct them in judgement , as the standing oracle , the vrim and thummim , extraordinary prophets . therefore aliab and others leaving these ran into various errours , persecuted orthodox prophets , as jeremy , michaia , and elijah . answ . that our adversaries even now confessed , that the punishment of idolaters , blasphemers , and some other transgressors , was written in plain precepts of the mosaical law , for in answer to an objection , page . they have these words , viz. but in answer we deny not , but the kings of the jews had power to punish idolaters , and blasphemers , and some other transgressors of the then law of god : which power was given them of god , and written in plain precepts in the mosaical law. if they had power to punish these things , then what these things were , was notoriously known ; otherwise the punishment had been unjustly inflicted . why then do they [ and that almost in the same breath ] alledge the urim and thummim , oracle and prophets to direct judg● in matter of law and jus universale , which every man is bound to take notice of ? and for matter of fact , urim , thummim , oracle and prophets were extraordinary wayes of discovery of this or of any thing else , never to be made use of but when the thing could not otherwise be known , and that in a matter of great moment too . the ordinary way of discovering matter of fact was by witnesses , or the confession of the party . in case the party would not acknowledge the fault , then in the month of two or three witnesses every word shall be established , deut. . . and is not the same rule given in the gospel , mat. . ? the want therefore of urim and thummim , oracle and extraordinary prophets , did not abolish the right use of the magistrate ; for then after the captivity the jews had never had the right use of the magistrate . now then , if excellent magistrates under the law [ such as were zorobabel and nehemiab ] had no other advantages to magistracy then we have under the gospel , their arguments , drawn from advantages which the jews had above the christians , falls to the ground , and nothing hinders , but that we may have as good à magistracy under the gospel as they had under the law , and altogether as infallible too , or rather [ i might have said ] as little fallible , for that they were actually fallible is evident , neb. . , . where we read , that some of the priests off-spring sought for the register of their genealogy , but it could not be found . what then ? the tirshathà or governour could not resolve it how it stood , as formerly such things were done : and therefore they were not to eat of the holy things till there stood up a priest with urim and thummim , which never came to pass : and now , i pray you , where was their greater infallibility from this time to the coming of christ [ which was the space of five hundred and thirty years ] then magistrates have ever since had ? as for ahab , whom they urge to have erred , i say , that he erred , not for want of advantages which others had , but for want of an honest purpose of mind , which hindered the right use of those advantages , he being a man that had sold himself to do iniquity , mean while he ceased not to be a magistrate . another argument they draw from the different dispensatious of the gospel from those of the law. these dispensations are now adayes more talked of then explained or understood and least of all in this present affair . the dispensations are differen●● ●ay they , and why ? because , forsooth , under the gospel transgressors are not to be proceeded against , as under moses , by external force and power : god inpatience and long-suffering waiting on men . answ . if transgressors are not to be proceeded against , under the gospel , by external power , how is it then said , that the power beareth not the sword in vain , and that it is the minister of god to execute wrath on them that do evil , rom. . ? by evil is understood . all evil , it being in materia necessarta , according to that of pro . a king that sitteth on the throne of judgement scattereth away all evil . if all , then it is evil committed as well in spiritual as secular things : and then for patience and long-suffering towards sinners , expecting their repentance : as god is the same god , so has his patience and long-suffering been heretofore as much as-now under the gospel . was he not one hundred and twenty years before he brought the floud upon the world of the ungodly ? and was he not grieved forty years with his people , before he sware that they should not enter into his rest , psalm . and heb. . whereas now god expects a present embracing of grace offered 〈◊〉 cor. . . now is the accepted time , future repentance 〈…〉 to be presumed upon . but , say they , when any continues in disubedience to the gospel , his punishment is eternal in the world to come ; therefore as the apostl● saith , cor. . . judge nothing before the time until the lord come , who will bring to light-hidden things of darkness , and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts , and then shall every man have praise of god. answ . and so when any one continues in disobedience to the law , his punishment is eternal too . but what is this place to a mans continuance in disobedience to the gospel ? is it not alledged by st. paul himself a preacher of the gospel ? he would not be judged before the time ; for what ? for his not continuance in obedience to the gospel ? nothing less ; for he ever continued in obedience to it , and ever preached it . the question was , whether he were faithful in this his stewardship or no ? whereof they were not to be judges , but god alone the searcher of the heart . st. paul himself knew nothing by himself , yet was he not thereby justified . the heart of man is deceitful above all things : and if a man may be deceived in his own heart , it were a rash thing to judge another mans , and that before the time that the hidden things of darkness shall be brought to light , and the secrets of all hearts shall be disclosed to the view of all men , as now they are to god. it is therefore rash and bottomless judgement that the apostle here forbids , not that which is passed upon good grounds and serious deliberation . . it is ●aucy censure that is here forbidden , to wit , that they being private men should go about to censure their apostle and preacher , when they were rather to be judged by him . . it is impertinent judgement that is here forbidden , in going about to judge the heart , when man looketh on the outward appearance only , and judgeth in matter of fact [ not in matter of thought ] and this is all the magistrate himself pretends to , wherein it is lawful for him to judge , which is confirmed by the same apostle , cor. . . are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters ? and v. . he takes it for granted ; that they have judgement in things pertaining to this life . but , say they , st. paul , tim. . . sayes , that he was a blasphemen and a persecuter , and if the mind of god had been that he should have suffered death in that condition , how should he have had repentance 〈…〉 , and been such a glorious instrument in the church as 〈…〉 was ? answ . that it was neither the mind of god , nor the duty of the magistrate , to cut off st. paul for blasphemy before his conversion , as this was ▪ and in the time of ignorance , when nor he , nor the magistrates , under whom he lived , knew it to be blasphemy to speak against christ or christians . hence it was that he said , that he obtained mercy . the jews knew not christ to be the lord of glory for had they known it they would not have crucified him . wherefore st. peter shews them , that a door of mercy was yet opened unto them . the fame may be said of the jews , alledged by our adversaries here . the jews were never yet converted to christianity , which may be the reason why they are not punished nor condemned for blasphemy against christ . but in that they say , that the jews are the greatest blasphemers of christ that are on the earth , this is true only implicitely ; for should they explicitly blaspheme they were worthy of punishment , yea and were punished by the imperial laws , as may be seen in cod. justiniani l. . c. . de judaeis & celicolis , where it is decreed , that if any of those judaei or cael●●olae did attempt any mischief against them that refused to entertain their sect , they and their confederates should be committed to the fire . and again , if any jew did presume but to ●traduce any one to his religion , he was to be condemned to a proscription of his goods , and punished after a miserable manner . and a third law sayes , that if a jew presumed to draw a christian to his religion , he was to be proscribed , and sustein the punishment of bloud . they have been heretofore permitted to live here , as they are now elsewhere amongst christians , but how little it has wrought upon them all the world knows : it is not gods time yet , it seems , to take away the vail that is drawn over their eyes . mean while you must understand , that the jews remaining jews , do not acknowledge themselves the natural subjects of any prince in the world . they will admit themselves to be the local subjects of those under whom they are , and will not be received to that neither , but upon conditions of freedome ; wherefore it was a law imperial , cod. justin . l. . tit. . de judaeis & caelicolis , 〈◊〉 s●os citra c●ntemp●um christianae religionis retineant ; that they might retain their rites without contempt of the christian religion . neither will it be for the purpose of our adversaries to urge the toleration of more then one religion in other parts of the world , as in france and several parts of germany : for first , in tolerating of them , they tolerate not blasphemy or heathenish idolatry : for in france it self their civil courts take cognizance , des 〈◊〉 de leze-majest● divine & humaine , b. e. of crimes of treason against god and the king. . in france the king permits but two religions , not all , as these men would have done here . so in germany popery and the augustane confession have been permitted together , but not all religions : and how comes even these things to pass , but because princes give away that power over the church , wherein god has vested them , to the pope , or people , that the king of france hath so done is clear from the rragmatica sanctio : wherein it s acknowledged that the kings of france own originally , no superiour , but god , and that without the said pragmatical sanction , the acts of the council of basil were of no validity , which was done at bourges by an assembly of the estates , and confirmed by the king , shortly after the celebration of the said council of basil , which was anno domini , . and that this hath ever since obtained in france appears by the following censure of the contrary doctrine . censure de la sacree faculte de theologie de paris , contre la puissance temporelle du pape . le premier jour d' auril mil six cents vingt six , apres la messe du st. esprit , l' assemblee s estant faite a l accoustumee en la salle du college de sorbonne , touchant le lieure impre de saternelly jesuite , ony le rapport de doctenrs que la faculte avoit deputez , lesquels ont expose qu es deux chapistres qui leur avoiint estez marquez , estoyent contenues les propositions suivantes : que le pape pent punir les roys & les princes de peines temporelles , les deposer & priver de leur royaume & estats pour crime d' heresie & deliurer leurs sujects de leur obeissance : & que telle a tousjours este ta coustume de l' eglise . et non sculement pour l' heresie mais encore pour d' autres causes , ascavoir pour leur pechez s' il est ainsi expedient : si lès prences sont negligens : s' ils sont incapables & inutiles . de plus que le pape a la puissance sur les choses spirituelles , & sur toutes les temporelles , & qu'il a cette puissance de droit divin . qu'il faut croire que le pouvoir a este donne , a l' . eglise & a son souverain paesteur de punir de peines temporelles les princes qui pechent , contre les loix divines & humaines : particulierement si leur crime est une heresie . ils ont aussi dit que saternelly affirme que les apostres estoient bien sujects an princes seculiers , mais non de droit , & mesme qu' aussi tost que la majestie du souverain pontife a este establie , tous les princes luy ont este sujects bref ils ont rapporte que cet autheur explique ces paroles de jesus christ , mat. . tout ce que vous liez sur la terre & non seulement de la puissance spirituelle , mais aussi de la temporelle , & qu il corrompt le text de st. paul ad cor. . potestatem deditinobis dominus in aedificationem & non in destructionem , en retranchant une negation , & fait dire a plusieurs autheurs , qu'il cite de choses a quoy ils n'ont jamais pense : concluans que tant , ces choses que plusie autres qu'ils ont rapportees meritoient tres-justement la correction & la censure de la faculte : monsieur le doyen ayant mis la chose en deliberation apres que les opinions de tous les docteurs ont este , ouyes & leurs voix recuillies la faculte a improuve & condamne la doctrine contenue en ces propositions , & aux conclusions desdites chapitres comme estant nouvelles , fausses , erronees , & contraire a la parole de dieu , qui rend la dignite du souverain pontife odieux , & ouvre la chemin au scisme , qui deroge , a l' authorite souverain de roys , qui ne depend que de dieu seul , & empeche la conversion de princes infidels & heretiques : qui trouble la paix universelle & renverse les royaumes , les estats , & les republiques , bref qui detaurne les sujets de l' obeissance qu'ils doivent a leur souverains , & les induit a des factions , rebellions & seditions , & a attenter de la vie de leur princes , fait en sorbonne , les jour & an que dessus , & receu le . auril . . par le commandement de messieurs les doyens & docteurs de la sacree faculte de theologie de paris . signe ph. bouvot . the french deriving themselves from the confines of germany . the like may be said of the german powers : and the powers that are are of god , rom. . and depend immediately upon him . but these powers , i say , are for the most part given away to the pope by the true owners of them ; whereas did they reform religion by their own authority , as the kings of england have done , all men might quickly be brought to subscribe and submit to that religion and government , which they should authorize according to the word of god , and the consent of antiquity , which would never have been brought to pass in england , had the kings referred themselves herein to pope or people . and whereas they urge that it makes for the security of princes to give libehty to all . i answer , that then this security must be either from god or man : from god it cannot be , in as much as he that gives liberty to all religions evidently shews that he has no regard of any , but meerly as to the notion of it : in which case , what security can he expect from god ? neither let our present adversaries think they please god in pleading for a liberty of blasphemy , though they pretend that their very soul abhor it : from man it will not be , for thereby he will create as many interests as religions , which will unite against the lawfullest of all [ which they know will aim at an uniformity ] though they shall no sooner have beaten down this then they will fall a squabbling among themselves . in which regard it may be said of them as pl●tarch speaks of casar and pompey , namely , that it was not their dissension which was the cause of the civil war , as was commonly supposed , but their union rather , in as much as they first went about to ruine the authority of the senate and of the nobility , and then they quarrelled among themselves , a thing , saies he , which cato many times foretold and prophesied . those that aim at usurpation catch most fish in these troubled waters . thus did jeroboam , whom our adversaries instance in , as if it made for them , when indeed they could not have found an example in all the bible , or in all the world , that makes more against them . they say that jeroboam wanting faith to believe that his new kingdom could any ways be fecure'd to him , or kept from going back to the linage of david , unless he devised some new way of worship to keep the people in their own land , and for his so doing he thought he had much reason of state : whereupon he took counsel and made two calves of gold , kin. . , , . and said unto them , it is too much for you to go up to jerusalem ; behold thy god , o israel , which brought thee out of the land of egypt , which policy of his procured this event which god denounced against him , saying , i will bring evil upon the house of jeroboam , and will cut off from jeroboam him that pisseth against the wall , and him that is shut up and left in israel , and will take away the remnant of the house of jeroboam , as a mantaketh away dung till it be all gone . and kin. . , . for the sin wherein he made israel to sin is he branded to all postericy , &c. whereunto they adde by way of application , be wise now therefore o ye kings , ps . . answ . they should have said , be wise now therefore o ye rebels , such jeroboam was . this jeroboam an obscure fellow , and servant to solomon , kin. . . rebelled against his king , and by his artifices drew away ten tribes after him from reh●boam , and the house of david under which the true worship of god remained and flourished . now jeroboam considering that he was but a rod sent to scourge gods people , and to be thrown into the fire at last , used all means to cross providence , and to perpetuate the kingdom to himself and his posterity , which he knew to rest chiefly in the business of religion . then well weighing that if he suffered the people to use their old way of worship , it would prove a means to reduce them to obedience to their lawful sovereign . he therefore perswades them that they need not go to jerusalem , saying that the c●lves which be had set up , the one in bethel , and the other in dan , were the gods which brought them out of the land of egypt : for which the curse of god lighted on his family , as our adversaries have noted , and he was branded with a note of perpetual infamy so often repeated in the history of the kings of israel , viz. jeroboam the son of nebat who made israel to sin . just so was it here : we had a jeroboam who rebelled against his king , after whose death [ which he contrived too ] he carried away the proportion of ten tribes after him : and the better to assure them to himself , told them they need not look after churches and steeple-houses , nor the religion which was there taught and practised by those that frequented them ; that they might set up the golden calves of their own spirits , and adore them where they pleased , made priests of the lowest of the people , which were not of the tribe of levi. that is , sent those to preach and pray that had neither ordination nor learning . now he is gone , and how much more of this dunghill is swept away , i cannot precisely tell , but this note of infamy will rest upon him , namely , that he made england , scotland , and ireland to sin . and thus we see how their own argument ●b exemplo , in every particular makes against themselves , and against that liberty they contend for , so unlucky they have been in it . sect. . in the next place they press the liberty granted to tender consciences by the kings majesties declaration from bredah . ans . and so they had it , till that fell out which might be foreseen , viz. a making use of it to an insurrection in london , which might have put all the kingdom into a flame , had they not been as fanatick in their undertake as in their opinions , perswading themselves that one of them should chase a thousand . and why this liberty was restrained , is set forth in the kings majesties proclamation to that purpose , by whom it was never intended to grant a liberty to others which might put a restraint upon his majesties own self at last . as for what they urge out of dr. taylor , lord bishop of down and conner in his liberty of prophesying , and his epistle dedicatory to it , i say that he might think it high time , even for the orthodox to cry up a liberty of opinions amongst the rest , when the cry of others had prevailed for the liberty of all religions but the true : and our adversaries , to render their present cry the greater , produce the testimony of the ancients in the margin . but to make up the number . which they promised in their title page , they have made some of them separatists from themselves , by dividing minutius from faelix , sulpitius from severus , socrates from scolasticus ; for otherwise they had had but a petty jury : this they never took from that learned bishop since then , male describendo , yea , and male vertendo too , these have made them their own ; my task will be to answer them only : the thing insisted on this , that for the first . years there was no sign of persecuting of any man for his opinion , though at that time there were many horrid opinions commenced . answ . that this is either generally to be understood : h. e. of christianity in general persecuted ; or else of any man or mens being persecuted by other christian or christians for matter of opinion . if generally understood , i oppose thereunto the persecutions , which happened in the first . years , the . was under nero , anno . whose decree was that to confesse a mans self to be a christian , should be capital . the . under domitian , ann . . the . under trajan , ann . . whereof plini to trajan , l. . epist . . the . under adrian , and antoninus pi●y , ann . . the . under antoninus philosophus , and antoninus verus , ann . . the under severus , ann . . the . under maximinus , ann . the . under decius , an . ● . the . under valerianus , ann . . the tenth under diocletian , ann . . if this would be understood restrictively of any man or mens being persecuted by other christians : i answer , . that i hope they will recall their word persecuting . horrid opinion● may be prosecuted and punished , not pe●secuted ; i mean in the scripture acception of the word , though in the law it be so accounted . cod. l. . t. . l g. manichaeos seu manichaeas vel donatista meritissima severitate persequimur . . if horrid opinions were only commenced , they were but begun ; but sin when it is perfected ( and not before ) bringeth forth death by the laws of god , and if horrid sin , by man . . for prosecuting , or ( as they call it ) persecuting for opinions , either commenced or perfected , what power had they to do it withall , when all the emperours were heathen , & there was no eminent magistrate to take cognizance of differences among christians themselves , otherwise then to foment them , that thereby they might become the ruine one of another ? . of the authors alledged , the historians ( whom only i look upon for matter of fact ) say nothing in the business , and therefore prove nothing at all . as for instance , sulpitius severus says nothing of one christians persecuting another . ergo , one christian did not persecute another : this is a non sequitur , it being an argument from humane authority , and therefore holds not negatively , especially from the authority of one that has written but an epi●ome , a very manual of history , which cannot be comprehensive of all things , neither does he mention any thing but the ten persecutions , and what relates to them in all that three hundred years , which he does too in less then one hundred and fifty lines in octavo , of a st. augustine print , which could not have been much had it been so many lines in a minion or nonparil . and as sulpitius seve●u● did not , so socrates scholasticus could not speak any thing of this matter , in as much as his history begins with constantine , which was after the expiration of the said three hundred years . thirdly , did any of those authours speak against persecution for matter of opinion ? then this is an argument that there was such a persecution ( so our adversaries are pleased to call it ) or else they fought with a shadow . their dislike hereof consisted in two things , . that any should be put to death meerly for his opinion , and this was st. austin's dislike , who was first of opinion that it was not honest to use any violence to misperswaded persons , but afterwards he retracted it , retract . l. . c. . quoted by the dr. himself lib. of proph . sect . . we agree with st. austin , as we have signified all along , that no man is to be put to death for simple heresy , h , e , qua heresy , unless it has joyned with it blasphemy , heathenish idolatry , sedition , or the like . the doctour himself allows punishing romish priests with death , not as for religion , but as enemies to the state , serm. at st. maries on gunpow . treason , neither does the said dr. disallow of laws for punishing of hereticks in general with corporal punishment ; only he would have the execution of those laws upon emergencies committed to the discretion of the governours of the church , ib. sect . . the second thing those forementioned authours or any of them disliked was , that any man should be compelled to a religion , not that he should be corrected for his wandrings from it : and so much is learned from tertullian ad scap. nec religionis est cogere religionem , quae sponte suscipi debet , non vi ; and this has been our tenet all along . but , say they , this restraining of liberty , imposing upon mens consciences , and lording over their faith , came in with the train and retinue of antichrist , that is , they came as other abuses and corruptions of the church did , by reason of the iniquity of the times , and the cooling of the first heats of christianity , and the increase of interest , and the abatement of christian simplicity . ans . that if this restraining , and imposing , and lording be meant of the popes infallibility , and resolving every thing into that chimera , then i agree , that it came in with the train and retinue of antichrist . and it s an argument the men of this generation are the train and retinue of antichrist , whose opiniatreté or self-conceitedness is such , that every one thinks himself a pope in that regard . therefore the granting of liberty to them is to acknowledge their infallibility , and consequently , were there a thousand religions amongst them , every one must be acknowledged to be the true ; and then what would become of one lord , one faith , one baptisme ? ephes . . . but if this restraining be meant of any other restraint by the civil magistrate ; liberty was restrained before pho●as his time [ who was called the midwife of antichrist ] as may be seen in cod. justiniani l. . t. . and t. . which code was composed , [ anno . and . above seventy years before phocas ] not of laws then newly enacted , but of such as had been made by his predecessors long before , amongst which those that touch the present business were those of arcadius , honorius , valentinianus , theodosius , &c. all promoters of the orthodox faith , and therefore ushered not in the train and retinue of antichrist , which never did so lordly and imperiously appear as in pope hildebrand , called gregory the seventh , who sate at rome between four hundred and five hundred years after phocas , and above five hundred and forty years after the last composure of the code . he first of all the popes excommunicated the emperour , and arrogated to himself the power of instituting an emperour . i agree likewise , that the king of france his giving permission to the huguenots has proved prosporous to that nation , though most prosperous to the huguenots themselves , who have found more happiness in peace and obedience , then ever they did in rebellion , and holding out against the power and authority of their king. but had he given the same liberty to all religions , it must have been the confusion of it , and as displeasant to the huguenots , as the denyal of liberty to themselves had been before . in every assembly of the huguenots the king has a commissary , to see that nothing be decreed amongst them against the interest of the crown : but how can such a thing be among men of all religions , and no principles ? i agree likewise , that liberty of conscience should be preserved in all things where god hath not made a limit : for the article of our church , before mentioned , sayes , that she has not power to impose any thing contrary to the word of god , yea or besides it , as necessary to salvation . i agree , that the soul of man should be free , and acknowledge no mast●r but jesus christ : and yet may it be subject to humane laws , which do bind the conscience in themselves , not for themselves , but for and on the behalf of god and jesus christ , who commandeth every soul to be subject to the higher power , rom. . and in this regard matters spiritual may be restrained by punishments ●orporal , as we have already said . i agree too , that meeknesse , and charity , and longanimity should be exercised towards those in errour : and lastly , that the infirmity of man , and difficulty of things , should be both put in the balance to make abatement in the definitive sentences against mens persons . but what is all this to idolatry , sedition , and blasphemy , which our adversaries have herein endeavoured to maintain as not punishable by the magistrate ? and what is this to those steams of opinions breathed out of the bottomlesse pit , against which they would not have the magistrate as much as hold his nose ? therefore they go on and say , that the best of men , and most glorious princes , were alwayes ready to give toleration , but never to make execution for matters disputable , as eusebius in his second book of the life of constantine reports . ans . all this we grant : but what is all this to horrid opinions , or practises , against which severe laws were made by glorious princes ? these were not of things disputable , & de quibusdam v●culis , as they are termed in the title of the chapter of the said second book of eusebius , concerning which there was no law made , nor like to be made , against which any toleration or whereupon any sentence might be given , upon which any execution might be suspended . but they were of matters of higher concern , as will appear by the laws themselves . the first was that of constantine the great , who after the nicen● council commanded the books of arius to be burnt , and that he who neglected it should be put to death , as is observed by alphonsus a castro . de justa hereticorum punitione l. . c. . so theodosius commanded the donatests to be put to death , as minus celsus senensis himself witnesseth . but the cod. of justinian . l. , tit. . testifies more in this matter then i need now to write , wherein we find that there is a law made by the emperours gratian , valentinian , and theodosius , for the perpetual silencing of heresies and hereticks , ut haereses perpetuo quiescant . another for interdicting all conventicles of them to be held either night or day , made by arcadius and honor●us . another against the manichees in particular , that they be . out-laws , suffer a publication of their goods , barred of all liberality of , or succession to others , that all power of giving , or selling , or contracting be taken away from them , and much more . another made by theodosius and valentinian , against the artans , macedonians , p●●umatomachi , apollinarians ; novatians , or sebatians , eunomians , tetradites or tessarescaedecadites , valentinians , paulians , papianists , montanists , or pricillianists , the ph●yges or prapusites , marcionites , borborites , messalians , euchites , or enthusiasts , donatists , audians , hydroparastats , tascod●ogites , batrachites , he●mogenians , photinians , paulianians , marcellians , ophites , encratists , carpocratites , saccophorites , ( & qui ad imam usque scelerum nequitiam pervenerunt ) the manichees , that they have no place either of abode or convening , in romanum locum . as for the manichees , they were not only to be banished the cities ; but they were to be ( tradendi ultimo supplicio ) delivered to death , least the elements should be infected with them , or injured by them . another law was made by them , that they that adhered to the opinion of nestorius should not be called christians , but nestorians , from their author nestorius , whose impious books , written against the decrees of the council of ephesus , every man was forbidden to have , to read , or to write out , but were diligently to be searched for and burned . all places of meeting were thereby forbidden these nestorians ; and whoso offended against this law , was to suffer publication of his goods . another law was made by valen , and marcian , against the followers of eutyches , whose opinions were condemned by the council of nice , consisting of three hundred and eighteen fathers , and in the constantinopolitan council , consisting of one hundred and fifty other bishops . these were called also apollinarists , and were to ordain no presbyters under pain of confiscation ; they were to have no monasteries , nor meetings by day or by night , under pain of forfeiture of the house , if the owner were aware of it , or else ten pound in gold : they were to have no room in the militia , &c. divers other laws are there to be seen , whereby the manichees are punishable with death , other hereticks with confiscation , or the like . now albeit the capital punishments here mentioned were seldome inflicted , yet others doubtless were , even those of banishment and confiscation . [ nay , as we have noted before , that severe laws were made against the misbehaviour of the jews . so soc. scholast . tells us , hist . . . that condign punishment was undergone by some of them , upon the command of the emperour , for scoffing at christ and christianity in their crucifixion of a christian boy . ] to these laws , it is probable that king james had an eye in his declaration against vorstius , sent by an embassadour to the states of holland , wherein he manifesteth his detestation of vorstius's horrid opinions , as deserving the banishment of the author , rather then the honour of his being a publick professor in that famous university of leyden . and this learned king of happy memory i mention , the rather , because our adversaries alledge him wrtting to the united provinces , and advising them to maintain peace , by bearing one with another in ( such ) differences of opinions and judgement . answ . this is true , if by such differences be meant disputable things , and such perhaps as were meant by constantine in the foresaid . c. of the second book of eusebius , though not the same , wherein he would have men perswaded to a pious syncretisme rather then a schisme , which might occasion the magistrate to make use of his sword : which wholesome counsel it were to be wished men would take amongst us : where one party decryes the other for arminian , which is it self as fast decryed for calvinist , on the other side , both , though they differ in their doctrines , agree in their uses and applications , and take all the articles of our church to be for them , as is observed by the kings majesty of blessed memory , in his declaration set before the book of articles . but that they might as well agree in doctrines as uses , they should do well to take up that excellent moderation prescribed by our church in the close of the seventeenth article , which is , that gods promises are to be received [ not to curious disputes , but ] as they are generally set forth in the scripture , and in our doings that will of god is to be followed , which we have expresly declared unto us in the word of god. and as for the emperours , and duke of savoy 's tolerations , together with that of polonia and rome it self , alledged here for their defence : i say , it is one thing what they did upon state policy , and another thing what they would have done , had they not been under a necessity of doing it . the king of spain has made a peace with the hollander , notwithstanding his claim he makes to the low countries ; why ? because he has irons enough in the fire elsewhere . the case was so with ferdinand of germany , emanuel of savoy , the state of poland , the emperours of rome , a necessity lying upon them to do as they did : but by the way i must tell you , that there were laws made against the novatians before justinian's time , witness that before quoted out of the code , which was enacted by theodosius and valentinian against that rabble of hereticks , whereof the novatians were a part ; and even that law refers to others formerly made particularly against their conventicles , which they falsly called churches . neither did the others want laws against a liberty of religion , though they thought it necessary to tolerate it . which necessity ceasing , the popes [ as their following words would have it ] were the first preachers of force and violence in matters of religion , and yet it came not so far as death , but the first that preached that doctrine was dominick the founder of the order of begging fryars . answ . that ( as i conceive ) neither were the popes the first preachers of force and violence , neither was dominick the first founder of begging fryars ; for i have already proved , that force in this case has been practised before , taught by st. austin , and approved by god himself , in giving men into the hands of satan for the punishment of the flesh . nay did not the whole christian world agree together upon the same principle in the holy war against insidels [ which is more then we have undertaken to justify ] though the same power which was raised against them , was turned against christians upon the instigation of dominick ? this dominick was not the founder of begging fryars [ for these owe their beginning to s. francis of assize ] but of a new order of working fryars , who being unable to maintain themselves by working , were forced to piece out their maintenance by begging . the new order i call them : for here even in this island about six hundred years before dominick , the monks of bangor were about two thousand and one hundred that lived upon the work of their hands , as bede witnesseth . hist . eccles . gent. ang. l. . c. . in the next place , to the pretended iniustice of the executions that are urged to have been done in the reign of henry the fou●th for m●tter of opinion , i say that what was done , was occasioned not so much for opinions , as for the hostile manner that the assertors of those opinions assembled themselves in , which was pernicious in it self , and dangerous to the state. these were called by several names , one whereof was lollards , not as owing their beginning to lollardus a german [ if i may have the liberty of conjecture ] but as being so called , quasi lowlords , h. e. levellers : for in acts and monuments they are also written lolleards , the termination whereof comes near to the scottish word laird for lord. in the last place it is objected , why are we so zealous against th●se we call hereticks , and yet great friends with drunkards , and fornicatours , and swearers , and intemperate , and idle persons , &c. answ . this argument holds for those that are onely called hereticks , but are not certainly known to be so : whereas that which is heresy indeed is a spiritual drunkenness , and a spiritual fornication , and which usually carries along with it an interest destructive to the king and church , which hereticks will fight for as eagerly , as a corporal fornicatour will do for his paramour ; and therefore more severely to be punished then corporal drunkenness in those that are guilty of it : for it may be said of corporal drunkards , as caesar did of dolabella , whom he was advised to beware of , i am not afraid , said he , of such fat perewig'd fellows as he ; they are the pale and the lean men that i stand in fear of , meaning cassius and brutus ; so plut. in vita caesaris . yet this i adde namely , that he who is a friend to an unbounded liberty of opinions [ such as these men contend for ] is a friend to drunkenness too , inasmuch as he that hath liberty to think what he pleases in any thing [ for hither these men would extend liberty ] will judge it lawfull to take a cup too much a● sometimes . and where have you greater drinking then amongst the low-countrey men , where liberty of opinion is allowed ? in so much , that a very famous man [ and he a publick professour too ] failing his auditours of a lecture one day , made an apology for himself the next , and said , the reason was that he had been drunk over night . this i had from one of the greatest friends they have in england , and therefore not very likely to raise a false report of them . and to let you know that this nation observes no just measure in any thing appertaining to god or caesar ; another hath expressed this their moral scazon , by a metrical one , in these words , utrinque clauda gens batâva jampridem est : sed cur , & unde nosse vis ? id in promptu . deo rebellis , & rebellis est regi . hi nonne summo ●ure 〈◊〉 cloud● per omne 〈◊〉 , & omne per latus p●ssunt , quibus est sides luxata , valga , distorta , fide litasque facta loripes tata ? the ba●avan on both feer goes awry : wouldst know the cau●e ▪ 〈…〉 thee by and by . he 's rebel both ' gainst god , and ' gainst his prince . and he whose cheverel conscience can dispense with faith to th' one , and fealty to th' other , his legs , and sides , and all will halt together . as for disputations so much desired ; they are good in themselves , but , for the most part , so partially reported , that i have seldome known any good come of them : for when men cannot confute what others say , they will make them say what they can confute . finis . errata majora . in the contents . sect. . read situation . sect . for 〈◊〉 read romn . read lell●● pag. . lin . . read . l. . read ienerati● . p. . l. . read stirred up . p. . l. ▪ read it this be not the very . p. . l. . read sacordotales , p. . l. . read dis 〈◊〉 ● . . p. . l. . read de imper. sum . pot . p. . l. ●● . read schedius and dis. p. . l. ●● read synode . p. . l. . read re●etin . l. . read ailes . p. . l. . dele are . l. . 〈◊〉 azarias and villalpandus . l. . read roman and d●le together . p. . l. . read contin●ous . l. . read plane . l. . read an ablong . l. . read given . l. . dele colon : l. . rea● seem . l' . read letters . p. . l. . read north. and l. . read exception . p. . l. ●● read nebuchadnezzar's . p. . l. . read gyges . p. . l. . dele . p. . l. . 〈◊〉 swallow . p. . l. . read 〈◊〉 . p. . l. . dele if . p. . l. . read laws . p. ● . l. ult . read 〈◊〉 p. . l. . read to the same effect . l. . for by read of . p. . l. 〈◊〉 dele of . l. . dele so . l. . read iniminate . p. . l. . read 〈◊〉 . p. . l. . read would destroy l. ult . for want it , read meant it . p. . l. ● . read take heed in . p. . l. 〈◊〉 for unlawfull read lawfull . p. . l. ult . for examination read 〈◊〉 . p. . l. ●● fore . . read tit . . l. . for if read to . p. . l. . for lib. ● . read lib. . l. . re●● paganis . l. . read 〈◊〉 . . for ask read after . l. ult . read by punishing so ●● sort . l. . read without delay bring themselves and theirs to the holy assemblies , and. . for logo qui , read logo 〈◊〉 ●● . p. . l. . for e. . read ● . . p. . l. . rea● . l. . read 〈◊〉 . l. . read 〈◊〉 . l. . read expose . and read chapitres . ● . . l. ● . ead sujets . l. . read ob●issancel . . read . ion faith sujets . l. . read 〈◊〉 . read &c. l. . read pense . l. . read plusiors . l. . dele , p. . l. . read 〈◊〉 l. . read 〈◊〉 . p. . l. . read in . 〈◊〉 ●● is this ▪ notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e * viz. dr. owen in 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 l. . digres . a dialogue between an east-indian brackmanny or heathen-philosopher, and a french gentleman concerning the present affairs of europe tryon, thomas, - . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing d estc r ocm this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) a dialogue between an east-indian brackmanny or heathen-philosopher, and a french gentleman concerning the present affairs of europe tryon, thomas, - . [ ], p. printed and sold by andrew sowle ..., london : . attributed to tryon by nuc pre- imprints. reproduction of original in the harvard university library. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng toleration. religious tolerance. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - spi global keyed and coded from proquest page images - olivia bottum sampled and proofread - olivia bottum text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion a dialogue between an east-indian brackmanny or heathen-philosopher , and a french gentleman concerning the present affairs of europe . london : printed and sold by andrew sowle at the crooked-billet in holloway-lane , in shoreditch , . a dialogue between an east-indian brackmanny , or heathen philosopher , and a french gentleman , &c. heathen . sir , i will not be so inquisitive as to ask what accident or occasion brought you into these oriental regions . be it either curiosity , or business , a natural desire of improving your understanding , or intention of commerce , i speak you heartily welcome , and shall to my power be ready to serve you , esteeming it both my duty and my happiness , to do good offices to all the creation , and especially to strangers , as standing many times most in need of them . french-man . worthy sir , your civilities have rescued me from that common error of thinking , that out of europe or the pale of christendom dwells nothing but rudeness and barbarism . i find no less courtesie in this , than in the other hemisphere ; and perceive people may be born at some thousand leagues distance , under different climates , and where the same stars are never seen ; nay , which is more , under various religions and rites of worship , wholly strange to each other , and yet may agree well enough , if they would give their minds to it , in the practice of the common duties of humanity . heathen . there is no doubt of it sir ; for the modes and customs of your country differ just as much from ours as ours do from yours ; and therefore we are not for that variety to scorn or laugh at , much less hate and plague each other ; but rather impartially consider which is most agreeable to nature , to the noble divine principle , and the real benefit of humane life — but waving this discourse , pray what is the present news in europe ? french-man . that question will lead us to the very antipodes of what we were discoursing of ; for nothing is more frequent among us than contentions , controversies and wars . heathen . for what , i pray ? french-man . some for empire , some for glory , but most about religious points , and the nearest way to heaven . heathen . now in my opinion , neither of these things should administer occasion for such violences and confusions . for if men considered the weight and cares of empire , those that are without it would rather fly from than fight for it . and that prince's dominions are wonderous small that cannot imploy all his vertues in meliorating his own subject , rather than in invading , oppressing and ruining those of his neighbours . nor can i understand , that any glory is to be got by destroying men . i think 't is rather matter of praise to beget them . your alexander and your caesar ( for we have heard of their names , and the former spread the venom of his ambition even into these parts ) made some millions fatherless , yet could neither of them boast of one son of his own , but both dyed childless . and then for religion , that methinks should teach you quite the contrary , especially your christian doctrine , which ( i have heard ) enjoyns you to love your enemies , to turn the left cheek to him that smiteth you on the right , &c. french-man . 't is very true , the principles of our religion are such , but the general practice now-a-days runs quite contrary . heathen . and yet practice is the life of any religion : if you do verily believe those principles of christianity to be true , why do you not follow them in your conversations ? if you do not believe them , why do you call your selves christians ? if you do believe them , and yet resolve not to practise them , you are wilful obstinate rebels , and greater affronters of christianity than we that do not make profession of it . can any thing be more absurd than to turn earth into a kind of hell , under pretence of driving men to heaven ? and to commit murders and cruelties for the sake of the god of life and love ? alas , sir ! the infinite deity delighteth not in manslaughter ; strife , war and contention enter not into his tabernacle : above , all is clear , bright , serene , calm and quiet ; 't is in the lower regions of the air only , that storms are generated , and thunder and lightning break forth . god is no respecter of persons , but ( as your own prophets say ) every one that doth well is accepted of him ; he causeth the blessed and glorious body the sun to shine on the just and unjust , and commands the sweet influences of the coelestials to fall upon all : the blessings of the four worlds are equally distributed to all men , as well inferior as superior . he sustains and preserves the universal systeme of nature by the hand of his out-spread providence ; and when the sons of men , by their sinful vanities , oppressions and violences have awakened his wrath , he does not presently dart down the thunder-bolts of his vengeance on their guilty heads , but first sends his brackmannys to tell them of their evil , and call them to repentance . and if man-kind will walk in the right way , and dwell in the everlasting regions of bliss , they must endeavour to imitate their creator , whence our seers call man the image or likeness of god , and the horizon of both worlds , since in him the superiors and inferiors are united . now if people would study to be truly like their maker , violence , war and oppression would have no place in the world. french-man . i perceive you are much for peace and quietness ; yours is a strange religion indeed that will not allow of the noble feats of arms , and the arbitrament of the sword. heathen . for ought i can hear , your religion allows the same as little as mine , and threatens , that whoever uses the sword , shall perish by the sword . french-man . and yet the cause , or at least the pretence of most of our wars is religion ; and 't is by the profession of arms that men amongst us become great and honouroble . heathen . if killing be so honourable , butchers sure with you are a worshipful company . french-man . butchers of beasts are but meanly regarded , but butchers of men are celebrated as the only hero's . heathen . and after what fashion , i pray , do these hero's live ? french-man . for the most part , they are such as love to eat to gluttony , and think that day ill spent wherein they are not drunk ; their discourse is nothing but boasts and rhotomontado's , intermixt with such horrid oathes and blasphemies , that modest men tremble more at their talk , than for fear of the fury of their arms ; where-ever they come they carry ruin and confusion with them , destroying men and debauching women , deflouring of virgins , ravishing of matrons , robbing , plundering , firing of houses , devouring what they can , and destroying the rest is , their profession and delight ; and this they call living at discretion . heathen . if these be the christian hero's , i wonder what are your devils ? i hope these are none of those that you said do contend so much about the right way to heaven . french-man . yes , i 'le assure you , none more ready to kill and damn all that will not be of the religion they pretend to . we have in our country a parcel of people called hereticks and hugenotes , their conversation is generally iust and honest , and they are peaceable and obedient to their king , and as ready to serve him , and do good to their neighbours as any : but they will not joyn with us in our religions , opinions and ceremonies . heathen . as how , i pray ? french-man . why , they will not acknowledge our supream caliph at rome to be infallible : they will not say their prayers to a statue , an image , or a picture , because they fancy those fine things can neither hear them , nor help themselves : they will not own that the bone , or a piece of the garment of a man who is himself many years agone dead and rotten , can cure them of diseases , or preserve them from dangers ; but especially when we give them a piece of bread , and tell them 't is flesh , blood and bones , they think 't is bread still , and are so impudent as to believe their own eyes before the dictates of our priests . heathen . why ! do you your selves believe and practise these absurdities ? french-man . ye marry , and would burn you too , if you were in some parts of christendom , and durst say you did not believe them as well as we . heathen . then i bless the good and infinite beeing , that i have no business in such a christendom . but pray proceed with the story of your hugenotes . french-man . we endeavoured to suppress and root them out by severe laws , and open wars , but finding that course ineffectual , we resolved upon a stratagem to cut them off ; pretended to be very kind to them , and that we desired a perfect reconciliation , and to that purpose made a match between one of the chief of that party and a great lady of ours ; to solemnize this wedding , the principal hugenotes repaired from all parts of the kingdom , and had the greatest assurances given them of friendship . but one night whilst they suspected nothing , souldiers being drawn together , at a certain hour fell upon them in all parts of the city , destroying men , women and children , so that in two or three hours time , there were above ten thousand of their dead bodies flung naked into the streets , and the channels flowed with their heretical blood : and at that time messengers were sent to other cities and towns to do the like , so that in a few dayes there were above forty thousand of them slain . was not this a noble expression of zeal for religion ? heathen . god keep such bloody zeal still from our indian territories . do your priests allow of such doings ? french-man . allow ! yes and applaud them too , they are the men that excite us to these gallant exploits , and for a reward for these services , do forgive us all our sins , and assure us of heaven . heathen . i know not what they may pretend ; but this i know , that god is love , and that such barbarous cruelties are to him an abomination ; and to speak truth , so long as men continue obstinate , revengeful and contentious , and suffer the wild savage nature , and bitter spirit to reign in their hearts , neither men nor god can forgive them ; for inequality and discord cannot move equality : such a spirit is contrary to the divine nature , and therefore cannot expect forgiveness till 't is changed and transformed . for men cannot draw nigh to the fountain of benignity , nor be heard of the soveraign beeing , but as they become like unto him , for every like is moulded by its likeness ; blood requires blood , but the merciful shall find mercy from the god of peace and compassion , whose mercies never fail . for this cause we have for many generations totally abstained from all violence , oppression and killing , either of man or beast ; for the groanings and miseries of those creatures that suffer wrong , are the beginnings of trouble and sorrow to those that do it , and do certainly stir up and awaken the fierce wrath in nature , as the loadstone attracts iron . french-man . these are pretty notions , but methinks impracticable : for if we europeans should live the life you talk of , and lay aside arms , and not vindicate our religion and liberties by the sword , we should be over-run , and be made the greatest of slaves . have not you heard of the inroad made ( at this instant ) by the turks into germany ? now would you have us stand with our arms a cross , and suffer them to over-ran all christendom ? heathen . i pray , what do you account the occasion that moved the turk to this expedition . french-man . why , the emperor of germany in certain of his territories , had some of those hereticks that i described to you but now , and he would force them to be of his religion , and to compell them thereunto , seized on their priests , and clapt them into dungeons and prisons , where they were starved and pined away in want and misery ; and others he sold for slaves , and sent souldiers amongst them to kill and destroy all that would not conform to his ceremonies : hereupon they took arms in their own defence , and observing their brethren to live free from such violences , and enjoy their religion under the turks , paying only such tribute , they desire the turk to protect them , which offends the emperor , and so the quarrel encreasing , the turk sends an army against him . heathen . this confirms and illustrates what i assert ; for here you see this deluge of calamity had not happened to germany , had they not first stirred up the wrath , and caussesly vexed their neighbours . it appears plainly these flames arise from sparks of their own kindling ; besides , experience shews that none are such vassals , and subject to so many miseries as those that give themselves to the use of arms , viz. to guns , swords , and the like weapons of wrath , and most of them perish by the use of them . for our own parts , 't is true we do live in subjection , and under the burthen of many great taxes , which are levied on us at the pleasure of the princes we live under ; but then they protect us from the injuries of the multitude , allowing us our free egress and regress through their dominions , and unquestioned liberty for the exercise of our religion and manner of living : they do not endeavour to peep into our breasts , and examine our opinions , or punish us for not thinking as they do . we go freely about our occasions ; nor do they permit every idle fellow to take away our goods , nor give us abusive words , or hurry us to loathsom prisons ; nor are our sons forced into the wars : they threaten no punishment to us , provided we do not offend the civil laws ; for they matter not what gods we worship , nor after what fashion , so we are just to men , and live peaceably , and pay our tribute . if they have our money , they know they cannot want men that will fight for two pence a day : but we value our health , our lives , liberties and religion , more than money . we all drink water , and the fragrant herbs , wholsom seeds , fruits and grains suffice us abundantly for food : our stomachs are clean , our appetites sharp , so that we taste the inward virtue of each thing , and sing songs of praise to the creator , who affords unto us the plenty of the earth , and the pleasant dews of heaven ; so that as fish live in the salt and brackish ocean , and yet their flesh is fresh and sweet ; so we in the midst of a tempestuous troublesom world live calm , and as it were in paradise . french-man . i am glad to hear you esteem your selves so happy ; there are few mortals that are so content with their lot , but are whining , repining , complaining , and alwayes on the tenter-hooks of new hopes and desires . heathen . and the reason is , because they forsake nature , and let loose their desires , which having once cast off the bridle of moderation , run on without stop or bounds . french-man . but i perceive you are for liberty of conscience , and that every one may follow his own opinion and phantasie ; and if so , we should have a mad world ; such a license is destructive to government , and the very nurse of rebellion . heathen . i do not well understand what you mean by opinion and phantasie , people will think as they list , do you what you can . but this i know , that he that fears god , and hurts not his neighbour , oppresseth not the creation , and obeys the civil laws of that country he lives in , and freely pays all duties and tributes to the princes that protect him , is a good and faithful subject to god and his king. nor have we any temptation to rebellion , for to us all governments are alike , as long as they protect us from violence . i have read something of your europian affairs ; and if i mistake not , in france , spain , &c. where the laws are to force people to be all of a mind , there have been abundance more rebellions , insurrections , plots and conspiracies against the government , than in countries , where liberty of conscience is publickly allowed ; whence i rather infer , that not the indulging , but restraining liberty of conscience is the grand cause of those disorders amongst you . 't is certain , every man ought to have liberty in well-doing , and to be punished only for the contrary . and we baunians scarce know any thing that is a greater evil , than for men to contend , hate , envy , oppress , fight and destroy one another , because they are not in all particulars like themselves : for men naturally are as various in their intellects , as in their shapes , forms and complexions ; for the shape and form of every body is according to the nature , equality or inequality of the spirit . the lord hath made all things to differ ; there is not any two things in the four worlds alike in all particulars ; therefore whosoever is offended with another , because he is not perswaded , or does not understand just as he does , is in truth offended with his maker , who is the author of that variety . if two things were exactly in all respects alike , they must become the same ; the nearest similitude of things is made by casting them in a mould , and yet even then they differ . french-man . you say right , and therefore to make all mens vnderstandings of asize , our church-men prepare moulds for them , viz. creeds , liturgies , systems of divinity , and the like , wherein they cast and fashion all mens vnderstandings , so that none but must own those , though he do not understand a word of them ; nor must dispute them ; though his heart and his brain tell him they are false and impious . heathen . this is much such an uniformity as i have heard in some of your books , was practised by the tyrant procrustes , who dwelling near a common road , seized all travellers , and carried them to his bed , which was framed exactly for his own stature , and if their bodies were longer , chopt off their feet or heads to make them fit , and if too short , strained their bones and sinews out with engines to a due proportion ; was not this gentleman a great lover of decency , order and uniformity ? if there were not variety , there would be no motion , for it is the various working power , and as it were strife between the properties that causeth all vegetation and manifestation ; if there were but one thing , there would be nothing , or a standing still , which the iews great prophet seems mystically to shew , when he saith , god made all things out of nothing : for there was no manifestation or appearances before god moved himself on the face of the waters ; which moving , seems to signifie the strife of the various forms , qualities and properties of the hidden nature , without which nothing could be generated . but here i must be silent , for we are counted heathens already , and i do not know what worse censures may pass upon us , if we too far explain those notions , which though founded in nature , are yet so disagreeable to the conceits and practice of the multitude . but this we are sure of , that men ought not to hate or suppress any thing but evil ; for man's most deadly enemies are within himself ; whence one of the wisest of the iews kings affirmed , that he that overcame his own lusts and passions was a greater conqueror than he that subdued a city . french-man . for my own part i shall for the future be more careful how i credit reports ; we in our country are told by our learned , that you are meer heathens , infidels , idolaters and worshippers of the sun , moon , and all the host of heaven . heathen . i nothing wonder that you europians should be mistaken about us , who live so remote , since you seem so little to understand the opinions of each other amongst your selves , every one misrepresenting the sentiments and doctrines of all that differ from him . 't is true , we do highly esteem and admire all the heavenly host , and those refulgent quires of the coelestials , especially that glorious eye of the world , the sun , as being the handy-works and wonderful powers of the incomprehensible creator , and think it part of our duty to express our gratitude and veneration to the one only fountain whence all those amazing wonders proceed ; for he that contemns the streams cannot truly honour the fountain . do not your own prophets teach you to honour rulers and governours , because they derive their government from god ▪ and if you do not only worship and bow the knee one to another ( who are at best but brittle animated dirt ) but also reverence the works of your own hands , as a man cloathed in goodly rayment , and the like , how much more ought we to have in high veneration those wonderful fountains of light , heat , motion and vitality , which are the manifested powers of god , and his upper vice-gerents and lieutenants over the lower world ? did not you tell me but now that you esteemed your hugenotes worthy of death or persecution , because they would not pay esteem and adoration to a few painted clouts , the pictures of their fellow-creatures , which you call saints , not knowing whether they be truly so or not ; and yet will you condemn our brachmans , for directing their esteem to these glorious master-pieces of the creation ? if you count such lifeless pittiful things , as wood and stone , or things painted and fashioned by man , fit to be representations of your godds , and means whereby to enliven your phantasies and minds to an higher degree of devotion ( which was the sole intent of the first inventers of those things ) what regard then ought we not to have of those living powers of god , the coelestial bodies , by whose sweet and friendly influences all created beeings are preserved and nourished ? what is more exciting to a well-disposed mind than to behold that glorious body the sun , with the innumerable train of stars , and the various species in the four worlds ? or what doth more ravishingly declare the greatness , goodness , and eternal wisdom of the immense creator ? this is a book we study , in which the grand charter of nature , and the holy mysteries of god are recorded , and we think we do not err in preferring it before the endless and contentious thwarting volumns of the talkative philosophers and wrangling school-men . french-man . i have been told , and you seem to own it , that you will not kill any of the inferior creatures , nor eat their flesh ; but i pray , hath not man power to do as he pleaseth with those creatures ? and were not the made for that very purpose ? heathen . god hath made all creatures inferior to man , who hath freedom to use and do unto them all as he pleaseth , having free will to chuse either good or evil ; but he that follows the better and leaveth the worse , chuseth the better part , and is made god's friend , and in amity with all the creation ; for man is a likeness of all things , and contains their true natures and properties ; and therefore whatever he giveth himself unto , the same becomes strong in him , be it virtue or vice : for which cause , our well-advised fathers commanded us , our wives and children , to abstain from all kinds of violence and oppression , especially to those of our own species , that thereby our souls might be preserved from being precipitated into wrath , and so retain humanity , and the more noble faculties of our souls unspotted , as well as our bodies rendred wholsom , clean , and fit to be temples for the divine spirit , esteeming abstinence , cleanness and separation to be the true paths that lead to all external and eternal bliss ; it being in our opinion an unfit , and altogether unworthy thing , that the great , noble and immortal soul of man should so much degenerate from its high and illustrious birth , as to joyn or suffer it self to be incorporated with the low and savage nature of beasts . nor do we think it lawful for us to heat our veins , and distemper our blood with wine , since water more kindly quencheth our thirst ; the innocent and fragrant herbs and fruits of our gardens afford us ample satisfaction ; and we should be ashamed to make our bodies the graves of the inferior creatures ▪ and though our princes are sometimes harsh and severe to us , yet we pacifie them with meek , submissive and humble behaviour . and since as little as possible we can , we hurt not any thing , therefore nothing hurts us , but live in perfect unity and amity with all the numberless inhabitants of the four worlds , doing by them as we would be done unto , whereby we dis-arm their rage , and their fury finds no place against us . french-man . but pray tell me how long you have led this kind of life ; and whether your sons and daughters do follow your religion and examples ; for amongst the europians nothing is more common than for youth to degenerate , and wander after the multitude , and abandon their fathers rules , especially if they should be but half so singular as you are . heathen . as for the antiquity of our course of life , i think for the greater part , i may date it from the worlds original . your own doctors teach , that adam , the first man , was placed in a garden , and that the green herb and tree bearing fruit was to be to him for meat ; and do generally agree that afterwards , at least during the old world , viz. to the time of the flood ( which was in the year of the world , . ) eating of flesh was not allowed or practised ; and though afterwards it was practised , yet 't is probable it did not obtain with all : but there is reason to believe that still the better and more reserved sort did abstain ; for about the year of the world , . ( near the time that your holy records mention ierusalem to be besieged by nebuchadnezzar ) we find the famous philosopher pythagoras flourishing , who expresly taught his followers ( which by reason of his parts and virtues were not a few ) not to eat any flesh , but content themselves altogether with vegetables ; and this great man travelling for the acquest and diffusion of knowledge into divers parts , left not our india unvisited , and there planted this wholsom doctrine , which ever since hath not wanted observers , derived down by a continual succession to our times . 't is true , our ancestors have obliged us to some things , which may seem frivolous and vain , as not to kill any kind of vermin , which are very offensive to the life of man : but indeed these prohibitions well regarded , shew their more deep wisdom and fore-sight ; for they did consider , that their philosophy would not only be embraced by wise men , but also by a great number of fools ( as the most part of all men are , in one thing or another ) and if they should have permitted them to have killed any kind of creatures , the foolish would have concluded , they might by the same rule as well kill others , and so by degrees come to kill men , as most other nations do . besides , not only our cleanly regular temperate lives free us from many of those vermin wherewith others are troubled , but we take it for a rule , that such as would live an abstemious separated life from evil and violence , must refrain from some things that are lawful , as well as from those that are unlawful ; as one of your prophets says excellently , all things are lawful , but not expedient . touching our sons and daughters , they all constantly follow our foot-steps , and it hath very rarely been known , that any of them have forsaken the precepts of their fathers ; being descended from a root of temperance and equality , they are naturally sober and temperate , for they use not tippling-houses , nor spend their patrimony in drinking wine , gaming , debauchery and gluttony ; so that the more children we have , the richer we esteem our selves , they proving no more chargeable to us than lambs do to sheep : they all marry wives of our own tribe and religion , and there is no dispute about either portion or joynture : their greatest pleasure and chief recreation is to contemplate the heavens , and their glorious furniture , the sun , moon and stars in their various motions and configurations , as also the pleasant gardens , groves and fountains , and to free the inhabitants thereof from the tyranny and bondage of men as much as in them lies : and so through the whole course of our lives , abstaining from all that tendeth to evil , and promoting what we can the good of the whole creation ; we endeavour to imitate the adorable maker and conserver of the universe , whose off-spring we are , and in whom we live , and move , and have our beeing . french-man . you have not only gratified my curiosity , but in several things informed my vnderstanding . and i heartily wish that your virtue and morality were crowned with true christianity , and our christianity embellisht with the real practice of your virtue , temperance and moderation . and so bid you farewell . to shew that the recommending abstinence from flesh , is no new upstart conceit , i shall here add those notable verses of the ingenious poet ovid , written above years ago , in his metamorphosis , as i find them translated by sandys , where he brings in the famous philosopher pythagoras ( from whom the indian bannians derive their doctrine ) thus discoursing . forbear your selves , o mortals , to pollute with wicked food , corn is the generous fruit. apples oppress their boughs , plump grapes the vine , thousand sweet herbs and savoury roots combine with beautious flowers of most fragrant scent , your nice and liquorish pallates to content . the prodigal earth abounds with genele food , affording conquests without death or blood : but beasts with flesh their ravenous hunger cloy , and yet not all ; horses in pastures joy , so flocks and herds : but those whom nature hath endu'd with cruelty and savage wrath , wolves , bears , armenian tygers , lyons , in hot blood delight . how horrible a sin ! that intrails , bleeding intrails should entomb ! that greedy flesh , with flesh should fat become ! whilst by the livers death the living lives , of all , which earth , our bounteous mother gives , can nothing please , except they teeth in blood and wounds , and stygian fury be imbrew'd ? naught satiate the wild variety of thy rude paunch , unless another dye ? that good old age , that innocent estate , which we the golden call , was fortunate in herbs and fruits , her lips with blood undy'd ; then fowls through th' air their wings in safety ply'd the hare then fearless wandred o're the plain , nor fish by their credulety were slain ▪ not taught , was man , that fawning treachery , all hv'd secure , till he that did envy ( what daemon e'er it was ) those harmless cates , and cramb'd his guts with flesh , set ope the gates to cruel crimes . but first , these slaughtering harms , a fire of zeal at holy altars warms ; enjoyning sacrifices with the blood of savage beasts , which made our lives their food . thus the wild boar for rooting up the corn , and leaving painful plow-mens hopes forlorn , was thought to merit death : vine-brouzing goats do next to angry bacchus yield their throats . what harm have poor sheep done , whose udders swell , and yield of nectar a perpetual well ? supplying man with their soft wool , and are alive than dead , more profitable far . or what the ox , a creature without guile inur'd to patience and continual toil ? he most ungrateful is , deserving ill the gift of corn , that can unyoke , then kill . the husband-man that neck with ax to wound , is too severe , that plow'd his stubborn ground ; so oft till'd , so many crops brought in , yet not content therewith , ascribes the sin , to guiltless godds , as if the powers on high in death of labouring innocence could joy . whence springs so dire an appetite in man to interdicted food ? o mortals ! can or dare you feed on flesh ? henceforth forbear , i you intreat , and to my words give ear , when limbs of slaughtered beasts become your meat , then think and know , that you your servants eat . finis . reasons against the independant government of particular congregations: as also against the toleration of such churches to be erected in this kingdome. together with an answer to such reasons as are commonly alledged for such a toleration. presented in all humility to the honourable house of commons, now assembled in parliament. by tho. edvvards, minister of the gospel. edwards, thomas, - . this text is an enriched version of the tcp digital transcription a of text r in the english short title catalog (thomason e _ ). textual changes and metadata enrichments aim at making the text more computationally tractable, easier to read, and suitable for network-based collaborative curation by amateur and professional end users from many walks of life. the text has been tokenized and linguistically annotated with morphadorner. the annotation includes standard spellings that support the display of a text in a standardized format that preserves archaic forms ('loveth', 'seekest'). textual changes aim at restoring the text the author or stationer meant to publish. this text has not been fully proofread approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. earlyprint project evanston,il, notre dame, in, st. louis, mo a wing e thomason e _ estc r this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (thomason tracts ; :e [ ]) reasons against the independant government of particular congregations: as also against the toleration of such churches to be erected in this kingdome. together with an answer to such reasons as are commonly alledged for such a toleration. presented in all humility to the honourable house of commons, now assembled in parliament. by tho. edvvards, minister of the gospel. edwards, thomas, - . england and wales. parliament. [ ], p. printed by richard cotes for jo. bellamie, & ralph smith, dwelling at the signe of the three golden lions, in corne-hill neere the royall exchange, london : . reproduction of the original in the british library. eng sects -- england -- early works to . religious tolerance -- england -- early works to . great britain -- church history -- th century -- early works to . a r (thomason e _ ). civilwar no reasons against the independant government of particular congregations:: as also against the toleration of such churches to be erected in t edwards, thomas c the rate of defects per , words puts this text in the c category of texts with between and defects per , words. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - apex covantage keyed and coded from proquest page images - pip willcox sampled and proofread - pip willcox text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion reasons against the independant government of particular congregations : as also against the toleration of such churches to be erected in this kingdome . together with an answer to such reasons as are commonly alledged for such a toleration . presented in all humility to the honourable house of commons , now assembled in parliament . by tho. edvvards , minister of the gospel . cor. . . and the eye cannot say unto the hand , i have no need of thee , nor againe the head to the feete , i have no need of you . rom. . . now i beseech you brethren marke them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which you have learned , and avoid them . london , printed by richard cotes for jo. bellamie , & ralph smith , dwelling at the signe of the three golden lions , in corne-hill neere the royall exchange . . to the honorable the knights , citizens , and bvrgesses of the commons house of parliament . t is not unknowne to you , right noble and worthy senators , that the great and present controversie of these times is about the church , and church government . in the dayes of luther , zuinglius , calvin , bucer , and the rest of those worthies , the controversie of that age , was concerning the sacrament of the lords supper , being generally stiled bellum sacramentarium , and the sacramentary controversie , the contention about it ( even amongst the servants of god ) being so sharpe , that it produced most sad and wofull effects . the e was not any one thing more hindred the cause of god , or the free passage of the word , or the progresse of the worke of god begun in the church then this . this weakened and wounded the protestant party , their weapons being turned each against other , this made them a gratefull spectacle to their enemies , this strengthened the popish side , they placing more confidence in their cause by these differences than in all other wayes besides . this sacramentarie controversie kindled such a fire in many reformed churches , that it even burnt them up , and turned them much a side from that true edification which is in christ , and in the practise of godlinesse : and hath proved such a lasting fire , that it is not quenched till this day ( although those churches have had sword , famine , and pestilence , to put it out . ) now in our dayes in this kingdome , the chiefe question is about the church and the discipline of the church , and our controversie may fitly be tearmed the disciplinary controversie , which however it differs from the sacramentary in the subject matter , yet it is too like it in the manner , & way of it , being likely to bring forth as sad births and fruites as did that ? what ? is it not so , that we do see already ( that i may speake with hierome ) that our differences about the church and discipline are the losse of friends , the gaine of enemies , and the publicke flames of divine wrath ? the great differences in this kingdome about the church and discipline , are one of the saddest and greatest symptomes of gods displeasure against us . these contentions and opinions make us forget the proper causes of god , and that maine building up of one another , which is in faith and love , so crastily doth that old serpent know how to delude our ignorance ; ( as iurius speakes upon a like case . ) oh there is such a fire kindled in this kingdome about these points , that unlesse the lord looke downe from heaven , and graciously be pleased to quench it timely , it may hazzard the burning and consuming all . now it is the duty of all the sonnes of sion to endeavour in their places , the putting out this fire , before it goe too farre , as by povring out buckets of teares and prayers before the lord , so by all other good wayes , but especially of the ministers of the gospell by all meane , both by themselves and by stirring up of others to doe it . the serious consideration of which hath stirred up in me strong resolutions , to lay out my selfe ( according to that measure of the gist of christ bestowed upon me ) for the healing of this schisme , and quenching this fire . now the first borne of this kind ( though not the first conceived ) is this present treatise against independant government , and the toleration of it , which i here humbly present to this honourable house , submitting it to your grave judgements , and serious considerations , humbly desiring your acceptance of it : now the reasons moving me to take this boldnesse , to dedicate this booke to your honours , are these . first , that great and generall liberty you grant of free accesse to your honourable house , unto all rankes of persons , in this kingdome , both by petitions and bookes . secondly , that hereby i might take an occasion to testifie my humble duty and thankefullnesse unto , together with my high thoughts and estimation of this honourable house for all the indefatigable paines and care bestowed on the publicke ; seeing that by you ( under god , and the kings most excellent majesty ) i , and hundreds of my brethren , enjoy so great quietnesse and freedome in our ministeries , estates , persons , ( after so great a storme ) and that very worthy deeds are done , both to us , and to this nation by your providence , we accept it alwayes , and in all places , most noble patriots , with all thankfullnesse , and here i offer to you the first fruites of my labours , as a lasting monument of gratitude . thirdly , that by presenting it to you , both my selfe and booke might here take sanctuary , and have your protection against the many calumnies and reproaches which will be cast upon us from that spirit of separation . neither flye i to this honourable house , as if i were conscious to my selfe of any crimes or just grounds of such revilings ( for had i not innocency and integrity in my actions , and intentions , i durst not present this booke to this just and honourable house , as knowing well you are a refuge onely for innocent and oppressed persons , and persons who seeke the publicke good ) or , as if i were not fore-armed to beare them ; i know whom i serve in this worke , and that therefore , whoever doth willingly detract from my name , doth but adde to my reward ; i know also t is a royall priviledge for a man to beare ill when he hath done well , and i have long agoe given my backe to the smiters , and by the grace of christ hope to beare all calumnies with much quietnesse of spirit , having in part learned that lesson to goe through bad report ( even amongst good men ) as well as amongst evill men , and to be counted an enemy ( as paul was ) for telling the truth ; but i therefore present it to your honours , and put it under your shadow , that so your countenance and acceptance of it ( according as you finde it ) may counter-ballance and weigh downe with all sorts of men , the calumnies and censures cast upon it , to hinder that good intended by it , and may the more commend the worke to make it take with many for their satisfaction . fourthly , i take this boldnesse , that so i might have an opportunity , to move and stirre you up , most noble worthies , to put to your hands for the earely and timely compounding of this great controversie about the church , and church government : when fires are begun in great cities and townes , or tumults raised , the fathers of families , and the citizens run to the magistrates and governours to acquaint them with the case , and to desire their helpe , who having power to command both men , armes , waters , engines , buckets from every quarter , the fire is quickely out , and the peace setled . now be pleased to suffer me to mind you of that which few or none doe , namely of our danger from errors on the right hand , the growing and spreading evill of this present time . every one minds you by petitions , sermous , bookes , concerning the reformation of this church , in government , ministery , ceremonies , and worship ; and god forbid that a word should ever fall from my mouth , or my pen draw a line , to call you off from it . goe on strongly and fully in the worke of reformation to purge this church thorowly , and purely to take away all our drosse and tinne ; cast out of the way all stumbling blocks , & gather out all things that offend , let nothing be left to hurt or to destroy in gods holy mountaine ; break downe all images and crucifixes , throw downe all altars , remove the high places , breake to peeces the brazen serpents , which have beene so abused to idolatry and superstition , put out the unpreaching and scandalous ministers , take a course for setting up good pastors and ministers in every congregation , and in your great wisdomes , and zeale be pleased to consider of wayes to provide oyle for al the lampes of the sanctuary ; goe on comfortably ( for god is with you , and the ministers with sounding trumpets of ministery of word and prayer ; and the people of god with you , covering you all over with earnest prayers , and and teares , as also with praises to god for you ) and be pleased to remember not to doe the worke of god by halves , or negligently . perfect and thorow reformation , will be your praise both with god and all good men , at home and abroad ; and your zeale may provoke other kingdomes , and states , and many will arise up and call you blessed , for the good pastors , and pure ordinances that they shall enjoy . t is the blemish of some of the good kings that were reformers , as asa and iehosaphat ; but neverthelesse the high places were not taken away . it was the praise of other kings , that they were taken away , as of king hezekiah . perfect reformation takes away all possibility and hopes from men , of bringing things backe againe ; but an imperfect leaves both a ground-worke , and faire possibility upon any advantage or opportunity to returne : theodoret in his eccle. historie relates that theodosius that most faithfull emperor , being fully set to overthrow the errors of the gentiles , he made lawes , by which he commanded that the temples of the images should be puld downe . constantine the great , with some other emperours , who succeeded constantine , forbad all sacrifices and worships to the heathen gods , and their images , and forbad any to come to their temples , but they did not demolish the temples & places wherin they were worshipped ; so that iulian and valens , emperours who came after , did renew the impiety of the gentiles , so that fire was kindled againe upon the altars , and sacrifices were offered to the images : all which things when theodosius understood for certaine , hee did not onely shut up the idols houses , forbidding all to come to the temples , but he did extirpate them by the rootes , and tooke care to have them buried in eternall oblivion . it was the saying of zisca the famous leader of the thaborites , that the very nests of the storkes are to be puld downe , lest they returne againe . and may it please this honorable house to purge us thoroughly , and the rather for this , because the more perfect our reformation is , according to the will of god , you shall by this lay the better and surer ground-worke , for healing and composing the great schisme , and divisions risen about the church , and church government . but amidst all your care and paines in this kinde , i beseech you cast an eye upon the errors and evills of the other hand , as anabaptisme , brownisme , &c. and be pleased to take into your serious considerations the meanes and wayes how to hinder their growth , and so much the rather , in regard there is not now in this kingdome ( things standing as they doe ) so much danger of errors on the left hand . popery , superstition , prophanenesse , have beene so discountenanced of late , so discovered , and their nakednesse laid so open , as that altars , images , pressing of ceremonies , and prophane ministers are falling of themselves . satan for this time hath even done with errors on the left hand , and their time is going out , growing like an almanacke out of date . any man who hath but halfe an eye in his head , and observes the course of things may see that errors on the right hand are now comming on the stage to take their turne also and to act their part ; the devill seeing he cannot effect his ends in the former wayes he went , he will now try others , as theodoret speaks in the case of nestorius , that satan gave over moving against the church by outward & manifest enemies , but came under the show of the orthodox , and in the habit of great strictnesse bewitching many & drawing the injudicious common people to a desire after him . satan is now transforming himselfe from an angell of darknesse into an angell of light , and though hee must use other kind of instruments , and goe other waies , yet t is to bring about the same things , the upholding of his kingdome and the hindring of gods , so that he will now labour to doe that by correcting and building up , which hee did before by persecuting and pulling downe ( as luther speakes . ) in a word plainly to expresse my meaning , one extremitie ( as many examples both antient and moderne testifie ) a hath caused another , the tyrannie of episcopall government in some bishops hath brought forth the democracie and independencie , the violent pressing of some pretended orders hath set many against all order , and satan seing hee cannot doe as he did , the times not favouring those things , they being growne old , and even antiquated that every man is ready to hisse at them , hee now goes about by other waies , and if he can but effect what he is in a faire way for and what he hath begun in a great measure , he hath enough . t is reported of the fish called * polypus , that it will be of the colour of that stone to which it cleaves , whether white or blacke , or any other : so will satan be of that colour and that temper just that the men are of with whom he deales , and the times are of . ( for besides this that satan hath more wayes to kill soules and advance his designes then one , as when he cannot have his will by persecution , then he will attempt it by schisme and sowing division amongst ministers ( as nazianzen sheweth : ) satan will in time bring about the same things though in another way , for independancie will bring againe what now it would cast out , namely libertinisme , prophanenesse , errors , and will by some removes bring many men to be of no religion at all . be pleased most worthy senators to let me tell you that the greatest sort of erroneous spirits with all unstable and wanton witted men , will be much for independant government and tolerations , and be to their uttermost against synods & setled government : socinians , arminians , anabaptists , separatists , how different soever in other principles , yet will agree in this ; independancie will both breed them , and being bred will foster them . and however in many men who bee principall actors in this way of independancie , the dangers and evills may not so appeare for the present , there being many things in most of the ministers lovely , which the more commends this way , yet wise men , such as this honourable house consists of , looke upon things and judge of them not onely as they are for the present , but as they may be hereafter , and accordingly setle things ; that being the great principle legislators goe by , to presume that men may degenerate , and things will be abused , and therefore so to provide that they may not . all errors commonly be best at first , most modest then , and the first authors of errors be commonly the best and fairest . ecclesiasticall history mentions that the novatian errors did more hurt in the fourth centurie then in the third wherein it was first broached . the followers of novatus did adde many other errors to his , as theodoret relates . arminius was more candid , and lesse erroneous then his followers , they having much improved the points , as some divines have shewed . be pleased therefore to give me leave to stirre you up to lay these schismes and divisions to heart , ( the divisions of reuben being great thoughts of heart ) and in your great wisedomes early to find out meanes and remedies to heale the great rents about the church and church government , and to hinder the further increase of this way : god hath called you together , and continued you for this worke amongst the rest ; noble patriots doe your parts , and what in you lyes to conclude of some speedy way and course for setling these differences . t is the praise of cyprian and cornelius that by the helpe of a councell they did indeavour timely to suppresse the errors of novatus . and in the meane while till church government be setled , whether it be not necessary to provide by some meanes against the spreading of this sect , and the meetings of these separated assemblies , i leave it to your great wisedomes to consider , lest otherwise wee be overgrowne with anabaptisme , brownisme and such like . and i humbly crave leave to tell you , that delayes in this kind will prove very dangerous , many falling to that way daily , and others by continuance will be so accustomed to it , that it will be harder to regaine them : besides the independants ly at the catch and advantage of delaies , all their hopes and strength standing in this , that it will be long before there be a synod , or before the church government be setled , hoping that in the interim whilst things stand betweene two , and are unsetled , they may both gather and increase their churches , and make their party more considerable ; and there is just ground to thinke they are not wanting to endeavour by some instruments how to effect it : the hand of ioab is sometimes where t is not dreamt of . i could present this honourable house with a sad relation of the state of things both in the city and countrey in respect of errors on the right hand , as also bespeake you by the teares & feares of all the godly & painfull ministers of this church of england : but i know i speake to the wise , and to them who are deeply sensible ; and t is time for me to take off my hand lest the porch be too large for the house . now the good will of him that dwelt in the bush rest upon your heads ; the lord hide you from the counsells and plots of wicked men , and from the raging diseases of the time , making you more and more his hidden ones ; he make you more and more his chosen & sanctified ones to fulfill all his mind and to doe his whole worke both against all heresie and schisme , both errors on the left hand and right ; hee double and treble upon you all that spirit of wisedome , counsell , might , and unanimitie , which former parliaments ever had . the lord set your feet upon a rock , and establish your goings ; he give you an unwearied spirit to goe on without fainting , till there be a perfect setling of peace in church and common-wealth , and till the worke of reformation so happily begun be finished . and the lord recompence into your bosomes seven-fold in blessings both temporall , spirituall , and eternall , all your worke and labour of love which yee have shewed towards his name , and towards this kingdome . and so humbly laying my selfe , and these poore endeavours at your feet , i rest your honours most devoted servant thomas edwards . the printer to the reader . good reader some sheetes not beeing seene by the author till they were printed off , hath caused more errata , both in words and points , than otherwise would have been . the most materiall are here corrected , be thou pleased to mend the rest as thou readest . pag. . line . for elections read election , p. . l. . for v. . r. v. . p. . l. . r. much . p. . in the margent for quod r. ad , p. . l. . for had r. have , p. . l. , for offices r. officers , p. . l. . dele comma at teacher , p. . l. . r. commanded , p. l. . r. broken , p. l. . read gestures , p. . l. . adde as , p. . l. . dele comma after power , p. . l. . r. combine . p . l. . dele out of his hands , for put r. given , l. . for so as it may not , r. so as if it might not p. . l. . dele the , p. . for reas. . r. reas. . p. . l. . r. spring . p. . l. . dele full point at reasons , p. . l. . read ordinances , p. . l. . r. being for is . p. . l. , after church , r. as many scriptures show . p. . l. . parenthesis after it , & not yet , p. . l. . one r. some , p. . l. . for heare r. heard , p. . l. . for charge r. change , l. . for seldome r. seldomer , p. . l. . after body dele comma p . l. . dele the , p. . l. . r. apprehensions , l. . r. then , l. . for what , r. which in the margent r. postremum , p , . l. . for three reasons , r. third reason . the introduction . intending fully by the helpe of god , ( with all possible speed ) to publish severall tractates against the whole way of the separation , for the healing of that great schisme , sprung up of late in this church , i thought good for the present necessity , to set forth these few and short reasons , ( more time being required to review , transcribe , and print larger treatises . ) now that which first moved me to the drawing up of these reasons , both against independant government , and against the toleration of it , was the credible information given me of some petitions drawne , to be presented to the honourable house of commons , for a toleration of some congregations , to enjoy an independant government , and to be exempt from the government which shall be established by law : now though , i believe , hope , and pray daily , that god will keepe that honourable house from ever giving any countenance , much lesse granting any such petitions , yet considering how many there are of that way , some inhabiting in this kingdome , others , who are come over into england on purpose , being sent as messengers of their charibes to negotiate in that behalfe ; and observing how diligently and close they follow it , by daily attending at westminster , by insinuating themselves into the company of sundry members of the house of commons , by preaching often at westminster , the more to ingratiate themselves and their cause ; printing also their desire of a toleration for independant government , and that with casting of dirt upon the reformation and government of this nationall church , what ever it may be ( as witnesse the protestation protested : ) i , a minister of the gospel , and a sufferer for it these many yeares last past , being one who desires as free a passage of the gospel , and as through a reformation , according to the will of god , as any of them ; have thought it my duty , that i might discharge a good conscience to god , and to the kingdome , to print these reasons at this time , that so when any of those petitions come to be propounded in the house of commons , under specious pretences and faire pretexts , there may by these reasons appeare a snake under the greene grasse : neither speake i this as if i would intimate , that that honorable house could be taken with colours , and faire glosses ; i know that great body is so full of wisdome , and so eagle eyed , that they can both see into , and fore-see a farre off , the many evills and mischiefes of independancy and tolerations . but i suppose these reasons may have their use among some , to furnish them the more with grounds against such petitions , for satisfying also scruples instilled by the independant men into some others ; as also to demonstrate to the petitioners , the unreasonablenesse of their demands : my aime therefore is , by this following discourse , l. humbl● to crave leave to enter in the honourable house of commons a caveat , both against independant government of particular congregations , and against their toleration ; and to present to the house a writ of ne admittas , fetcht out from the court of heaven , and from the records of holy scripture . reasons against the independant government of particular congregations . reason . i. the churches gathered and constituted by the apostles , watered by evangelists and prophets , and after planting and watering , having pastors and teachers , with all other officers , as they say , set over them by the apostles and their owne elections : yet it is evident these churches could not well stand nor subsist of themselves with all these officers , but many of them had beene much indangered , and subject to have beene ruined , if some others besides these churches and officers had not upon occasions interposed and that authorotatively , as the apostles , evangelists , and elders of other churches , as doth appeare by the acts of the apostles , and by many epistles , as to corinth , galatia , colossians , timothy , titus : . acts : . cor. . chap. . ver. . . cor. . chap. . . . ver. the particulars whereof i shall evince more largely hereafter . now if these primitive churches who had all the officers , and were setled by the apostles in all poynts according to christs order , yet in those times could not doe well independently , how can wee thinke that any particular congregation in these times ( which cannot be so setled having no apostles nor any infallible men to direct them ) can doe well without dependancie ? and though it will be said these extraordinary officers be now ceased , yet let them consider whether there is not need of some way to supply this want to the particular churches now : but if it be said that the ordinary officers of pastors , teachers , elders , with the body of the congregation will suffice for the governing every particular congregation independantly ; to that i answer according to their principles , in the apostles times there were all these officers in particular congregations , and setled in a perfect way , and yet for all this , particular churches needed a dependancy upon apostles , evangelists , prophets , and presbyters of other churches , and timothie , and titus are set over the church of ephesus and crete : now though some of these be ceased , and so this power may be ceased , as it was in particular men , yet that the congregations should not need it now in these times as well as then , no solid reason can be given , but there is much more reason for it now , which therefore must bee in some other way , be it synods and councels , to supply the defects of each particular , by the conjunction of the whole , the whole helping every part , and supplying what is lacking to it ; and this reason hath the more strength in it , if we consider that the churches in the apostles times were churches in cities , it being all one to say in every city , or in every church , tit. . . act. . which churches also had good store of preaching ministers amongst them , as appeares by acts . v. . act. . v. , . compared with ver. . so that in all cases of doctrine and discipline , having many ministers to resolve and determine matters , and to have carryed them with the more gravity and authority , they might have subsisted the better independantly , whereas most particular congregations now have but few ministers , one or two , nay , according to their principles there may be none , nor no officer at all , and yet these congregations must be independant , having all power and government independantly , before officers as well as after . reason . ii. that governement and power which causes men to runne upon the manifest violation of the constant practice and example of the churches during all the time of the apostles , and puts churches upon practices that are absurd , unreasonable and prejudiciall to the good of their soules , that government is not of divine institution , nor to be received : but such is the independant power , and government of particular congregations : the major is of undoubted truth , and will be denyed by none , for the minor i will prove it in these following instances . first , their independancy forces them either to have ministers and officers without being ordained , contrary to the practice and examples of the churches all along in the new testament , as the . acts v. . . act. . no man ever being an ordinary officer in the church , without ordination , let them produce one instance if they can : hence the most learned divines in reformed churches tell us , that no man ought to be admitted to an ordinary function in the church unlesse they be lawfully called , and that lawfull calling stands in ordination as well as election : but because these may be rejected by them , let us heare one of their owne , namely master robinson , speaking , thou art not a pastor but by a lawfull calling : thou art called a pastor ( that is elected , and ordained ) or else if their officers be ordained , it is by the people , even by such who are not in office , which is expresly against the constant practise of all the churches in the new testament , as appeares by the . acts . . acts . tim. . . tim. . . tit. . and it can never be showne in all the new testament , that the people ever attempted any such thing ; thus zanchius showes that this is to be observed in scriptures , although election of ministers was made by the whole church , yet hands were never imposed but by the ministery and presbytery , this is cleare in the acts & epistles of paul : and the people cannot do it , because the lesse is blessed of the greater , & they who lay hands on and make ministers , should be greater in place and authority & not lesse , as the common people be : and though it be granted ( as cameron speakes ) that an equall may make and ordaine an equall , yet he who is an inferior , cannot a superior . and thus to maintaine independancy they breake the ordinance of god , and violate that order & constant way of the calling of ministers recorded in the word . and i desire them but to consider in the feare of god , what master robinson writes in the fourth chapter of his apology , and i know they must forsake their helena of independancy upon this reason , ( and all the shifts they have under heaven about ordination cannot helpe them ) t is religion in me ( saith robinson ) to depart though but a little from the practice and institutions of the apostles ( excepting alwayes extraordinary things ) in any thing that is truely ecclesiasticall , though never so small , what things soever , by whom soever , or under what colour soever they be invented : now ordination cannot be held extraordinary and temporary , neither is it by them , and t is held to be an ecclesiasticall thing also , and certainely none of the least among ecclesiasticalls , in matter of order and decorum , there being not any one thing concerning matters of order , that hath so cleere and constant practice as this ; i am sure all their whole frame of church and discipline , hath not so much ground in the word for it as this , namely , that ministers ought to be ordained , and that by ministers of the word . so calvin , although there be no expresse precept concerning the imposition of hands , yet because we see it was in perpetuall use by the apostles , the so accurate observation of it by them ought to be to us instead of a command . so zanchius speaking of imposition of hands in ordination , saith thus , that this in many places is rejected , together with other ceremonies , i never approved nor can approve . i know there is no expresse precept concerning this thing but notwithstanding i would have the examples of the apostles , and the ancient church more to be esteemed of , yea they ought to be to us instead of a command : and in another place he speakes , t is certaine , t is not a vaine ceremony but the holy spirit is present , and to performe those things inwardly , which are signified by this outward rite : and yet if ordination were but a very little thing , but a ceremony , the essence of calling , standing in election , and that but the consummation of it , nothing but the solemne introduction of the minister into the free execution of his calling , yet if master robinson may be believed , and your selves in other little things , we must not depart from christs way , or goe any other way , in things concerning his house and officers than he hath directed , and yet behold in this either ministers are not called according to the scripture wanting that part of their calling , namely ordination , or else , if they be , it is in another way than the apostles or churches of christ ever practised , behold how this independancy causes men to depart farre from the practice of the apostles . and i desire they would show for what reason paul left titus at crete , to make ministers in every city , if ordination were not necessary for all ministers of the gospell under the new testament , or if being necessary , it might be performed to ministers by the people without officers : titus might have beene imployed better to have gone along with paul , preaching and helping to convert others , and might have well left the churches in crete , either to have had ministers without ordination , or else left the people to ordaine them . secondly , this independancy causes them to fall upon practises absurd and unreasonable , as namely either their ministers must not first be examined tryed and known for their gifts and abilities before they be made , which is contrary to the scriptures , tim. . v. . they must first be proved , and if it hold in deacons , much more in the ministers of the word , and of this they may read zanchius , calvin , amesius , and generally all divines , or they must be judged of by the people . now how can the people three or foure visible saints , or more , joyned into a church , examine and try the learning , gifts , soundnesse of men for the ministry , who are themselves ignorant in all kind of learning , and may be weake and injudicious ? it is against the light of nature and right reason that learned men should be examined and discovered for their abilities by them who skill not those things , and are far below them in knowledg : we see in all arts and sciences , men are examined and tryed by them of their owne arts and callings , and not by others , who have no knowledge in them : so zanchius giving reasons of the necessity of examination before ordination , comes to propound by whom this examination is to be , to which he answers ; by him who is judged to be indued with the greatest measure of the spirit , having also other presbyters present , who are learned and pious : paul would therefore have timothy to know them well who are to be ordained , for examination belongs to the most skilfull , and they who are of most authority . but these visible saints , the church being oft times weake , injudicious , meane , for parts and education , apt to be turned quickly , and taken with faire showes and good expressions , may and doe chuse , weake , ignorant , unfit men for pastours and elders , whereby the church may be led into errors , kept in a low estate , so as they cannot grow up in grace and knowledge , as becomes a church of christ ; there may be also all barbarousnesse and disorder for want of gifts in government in these weake officers , all which tends to the prejudice and hazard of the soules ; hence this is given as the great reason by divines of the examination of ministers before ordination and that to be by learned and able men , because as there is nothing more profitable to the church then good pastors , so nothing more pernitious then bad and unlearned ministers . secondly , suppose they might chuse well , namely able men both for parts and soundnesse in the faith , and it were lawfull also for the people to ordaine , yet it may so fall out ( according to their principles of a church ) that these visible saints cannot ordaine officers , as having no gifts of prayer for publicke , especially not able to conceive prayers , concerning the action in hand , namely , the ordination of a minister , neither had they any gifts to make publicke exhortations and admonitions to the pastor of his duty , nor be able to know what to say to him , at the admission of him into his office : what shall be done now ? shall the worke be staid , and the church want a minister till she be able to doe these workes and duties ? they may for ought can be said , be long , nay ever without ministers , and so without preaching of the word and sacraments , which cannot but be very prejudiciall to their salvation : but to grant them that which needes not be granted according to their principles , that this church shall have some offices , as suppose a ruling elder , yet when a pastor is to be chosen , these elders who have a gift in government , may not be able nor competent to try and examine the gifts and parts of a pastor : nay yeeld them to have a pastor , and the church would now chuse a teacher , one single pastor though able in his gift of exhortation and application may not be so able to try the gifts requisite to a teacher , whose gifts must be for exposition and controversies to preserve pure doctrine : hence amesius speaking of calling of ministers to a church , saith that here is need of direction and helpe of presbyters both of the same church , and for the most part of the neighbour churches . but if he were able to try and examine , yet how shall this teacher be ordained , there being but one minister , if ministers of neighbour churches may not joyne also ? consider if they doe not fall into that which they complaine against in the episcopacy , namely for one man to have the sole power of ordination : so that by all these particulars you may see the assumption proved . reason . iii. t is not to be thought that christ would institute such a government of his church which affords no helpe , nor allowes no way or remedy , no not for one time or prima vice , for innocent persons that are wronged , but where being no place for appeales the parties oppressing must be the sole judges of the cause . it is counted an unequall , unreasonable thing , in governements , that parties should be judges at all , much lesse the sole , and that there should be no way for persons oppressed to be righted . but now in this independant church government , there is no reliefe , no not at first , for injured persons , nor way of appeale to others who be not parties to heare their cause and determine ; here onely parties are judges and no others may be admitted : as for instance , in one of their congregations , the greatest number of that church ( as it doth and may oft fall out ) is against the pastor or teacher , and some other members upon a difference in some points of doctrine , and being the greater number , the elders also taking part with them , they proceed most unjustly to censures of deprivation and excommunication ; now if all the power lye independantly in this particular church , so as there may be no other as synods to appeale unto , to heare the cause and right them , this minister and brethren thus censured must lye under these oppressions without all remedy , and be debarred from the ordinances of christ without helpe ; what remedy there is in such cases as this we desire them to shew us , and that such cases as this may not , and doe fall out , cannot be denyed : now that christ should institute such a governement in his church , where 't is unlawfull for any but parties properly so termed to be sole judges , and where there is no possibility of redresse for the innocent in cases of injury which may and do ordinarily fall out , is not a thing to be imagined by reasonable men ; t is spoken of by these men for a strange practise in the bishops that they should be judges in their owne cause and give votes in it ( though yet there be besides them , three times their number of voyces in the house of lords ) how much more unreasonable may they judge it in their way of church governement , where parties who are judges be greater in number , so that i may speake of the independancy of their congregations as cameron speakes of the popular government of their congregations * . it is not credible that our lord jesus christ , who is both king of righteousnesse and king of peace would have government to be in this way , which hath no meanes nor way for righteousnesse nor peace in his church ; besides the practice of the church of antioch ( recorded in scripture for our example ) is against it , and gives us ground for appeale to others out of that church , and not to have the parties the judges , acts . , . because the dissention and disputation was betweene paul and barnabas , and them of judaea , who taught circumcision ; therefore , the church of antioch thought it not fit that paul and barnabas should determine and end it , but sent to others , apostles and elders , who were not parties against them of judaea , and they shall determine for them all : else had not the dissention and disputation beene betweene paul and barnabas , and certaine of judaea , and that in the particular church of antioch , they were able to have determined it without sending to jerusalem , but the church judged it unequall , that they who were the parties in the controversie should be the judges . reason . iv. the light and law of nature with right reason is against the independancy of particular churches , dictating & leading us to dependancy , a subordination and a consociation in government . in all societies and bodies it is thus by the dictates of nature , and it is found necessary amongst bodies naturall , and bodies politicke , that the severall parts and particular members doe joyne in one for the good of the whole , and that the whole being greater then a part , the severall parts should be subject to , and ordered by the whole : as in a mans body , the foote , though it hath its proper use and operation , is dressed , lanched and ordered , not by it selfe , but by the hands and eyes : in cities and great townes , though there be severall companies who have orders and government among themselves in some particulars , yet they are in subordination , and in a consociation with greater assemblies , in more high and difficult cases for the preservation of the whole : in common wealths and kingdomes , though severall cities , townes , counties , have courts , and their particular governments , yet all these courts are subordinated to higher , and all these joyne and are consociated together in some chosen out of all , as in parliaments : in schooles of learning there be severall colledges and houses who have masters and officers of their owne , yet there is a consociation of the chiefe of all these , for the government of the whole : in armies there be severall companies and regiments who have their distinct captaines and officers , and yet upon great assaults , exploits , they are conjoyned all in one , and have a councell of warre out of severall regiments , to advise and determine upon waighty occasions : particular shippes have their owne masters , and pilots , and provisions , and yet all joyne into one navy , for the safety of the whole : at first families had all power and governement within their owne walls , but when they encreased ( though families have power still of correction , food ) yet they joyned to be governed by magistrates , and ruled in greater cases of life and death and goods : why should not this hold then , & be lawfull in the church , in greater and waightier matters ? especially seeing themselves affirme that their churches are bodies , spirituall corporations , cities , families , armyes . the church is a most free corporation spirituall : and doe inferre many of their practices from this , that their churches are bodies and societies , and therefore it must be , as it is with corporations , and bodies politicke , they must choose their owne ministers , the ministers can onely preach authoritatively in their owne congregation , as the magistrate of leyden can onely administer his publicke office at leyden , and not at delph . every particular member must enter into covenant with the church , when admitted a member , because when men are admitted into a body , or society civill , they make not onely a covenant , but doe often adde thereto an oath . themselves teach also , that as church discipline is to be learned from the plaine and perfect word of god : so in such particulars as are common to the church with other societies , it is to be directed by the light of nature , the church observing alwayes the generall rules of the word , and so this is brought as the maine ground for their church covenant ( though there be neither precept not practice of it , in the word ) namely the lawes and rules of nature which doe run along with , and are alike common to things spirituall and humane , so farre as both are found to agree in one common nature together , for as when god made speaking to men in a publique assembly ( as is that of preaching or prophecying ) a sacred ordinance instantly did all the lawes of nature , and right reason that serve to regulate and conveniently concurre to all orderly speeches and orations of men in publique made , they did all fall upon this ordinance also , as to speake aloud , not to speake two or three at once , &c. so say i in this point , when god required governement and discipline in his church , those rules and practices of governments , which according to the light of nature and right reason are in common-wealthes and societies were warranted for the discipline of the church , especially the church observing the generall rules of edification , order , peace , &c. which synods , and counsells apparently tend to , so that i may affirme of dependancy ( as is said by them of their church covenant ) it is so farre from being any thing above that which is written , that it rather comes within the compasse of the apostle , it needed not at all to have beene written thes. . . ye are taught of god in a law spiritualized , who also hath full roundly taught us to acknowledge , if we be spirituall , yea but reasonable , such dictates of nature , and right reason in things wherein divine ordinances and humane doe alike partake in common , to be no lesse then the commands of god . it is asserted by some divines of scotland , that in all such things as are alike common to the church , and to the common-wealth , and have the same use in both , whatsoever natures light directeth the one , it cannot but direct the other also ; for as the church is a company of christians subject to the law of god , so is it a company of men and women , who are not the outlawes of nature , but followers of the same . and hence it is amesius showes that the light of nature requires , that particular churches may and ought to combine in synods , for things of greater moment : so then to conclude this reason , and that ex concessis , the god of nature and reason hath not left in his word a governement against the light of nature and right reason , but such is the independent government , as hath beene showne at large . reason . v. there be many rules and commands in the scripture , besides the equity and analogy of some practises and examples which doe require the combination of churches in synods , so amesius confesses : the rules and commands be such as these , let all things be done to edification , let all things be done decently , and in order , cor. . . . ver. follow after the things which make for peace , rom. . . so philip . . . vers. now if all things in the churches must be done to edification , comely , and in order , and for peace , then certainely church government must . but synods are found to be for edification , for peace , and order , as things of good report and just , as a speciall remedy for preventing , and healing divisions , which is not , nor cannot be in the independant government , but many cases fall out where there is no other remedy but separation , separation being indeed the remedy of separation . it is confessed by themselves that this is a safe and prudentiall way . now a thing may be commanded by god two wayes , either by vertue of a generall command , or by vertue of a particular command , and that is commanded , and ought to be practised , which is required by a generall precept as well as what is command by a particular , and there are many particulars to be practised by vertue of a generall precept , having no other foundation , especially when they are found by common experience to be so . the practises and examples following , are such as these , cor. . . the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets : now if the spirits of the prophets in a particular congregation , must be subject to the censure of the rest in that church , then by way of equity and analogy , they are to be subjected to a greater company , namely , to the judgement of all the prophets , in a province or nation : thus paul , though an apostle , seekes to win credit and obedience , even to those orders , which hee established by the example and judgement of other churches , cor. . . cor. . . the equity of which is , that the orders agreed upon by the consent of many churches , are of great force and authority to bind : so paul , though an apostle , submitted to the practice of what was agreed upon by the common consent of james , and all the elders of jerusalem , ( though in the practice of jewish and legall ceremonies ) acts . from the . ver. to the . ver. thus in a case of great dissention , and disputation in the church of antioch , acts . , . ver. why did that church send to jerusalem for resolution in that difficult case to be determined , and bound by the decrees and orders of the apostles and elders in that synod , and were not bound , nor determined by their owne church onely ? ( especially having two such excellent men with them as barnabas and paul , whose judgement they might have rested upon ) surely this was done for this end , to teach us that divers churches in difficult cases ought to meete by their ministers and some choise men to determine of matters for those churches , according to the word , to which all those churches should submit . neither will it helpe them to say this was extraordinary ( for what synod can say , it seemeth good to us and the holy ghost ? and those decrees bound them who were not present ) not to answer these exceptions now , but reserving the answer to a larger tractate upon this subject ; grant it that something in this synod was singular and extraordinary , yet this was not for one church to send to another , and that to their ordinary officers the elders , acts . . ver. to this end that by common consent difficult cases might be determined and enjoyned upon particular churches by more than their owne church , for this must needs be ordinary , and so binding , being an example founded upon rules of common equity , reason , and communion of churches , and not upon temporary or extraordinary grounds , and that appeares thus ( for unlesse it were to teach the succeeding churches this , and to be a ground for synods , and dependancy in government , in cases of difference and difficulty , there could be no other great use nor end of it , for as for the satisfying of the question , and resolving the case , paul alone being at antioch , one who was immediately and infallibly inspired by the spirit , was able of himselfe to have satisfyed that controversie about circumcision , much more barnabas being with him and others in that church . reason . vi . the government of the church by synods , is no where forbidden by god in the new testament , nor spoken against , either directly , or by consequence ( as they say ) is for one man to have the power , luk. . . . ver. for though no one minister , as some say , be greater than another , yet all are greater than one or a few . in synods here is no erecting or appointing of an officer or office in the church , which christ hath not appointed ( which is the exception made against episcopacy ) but here are onely the officers appointed by christ and that forme of government , which is appointed by christ in his church , namely , aristocraticall , here is no varying of the forme of church government from aristocraticall to monarchicall ; ( as they speake of episcopacy ) but the government by synods is most aristocraticall , whereas the independant way for the most part is but onely oligarchicall , having but a few officers in a church , or else democraticall , if put into the body of the congregation : now where there is no law forbidding , there is no transgression , for sinne is a transgression of the law , john . . and such actions the church may lawfully doe , wherein no law of god is broken , as is confessed by themselves , in the fifth argument of syons prerogative . but here is no law broke , this never being spoken against , nor liable to those exceptions put in by them against episcopacy , but found agreeable to the law and light of nature concerning societies , to generall rules in the word of edification , order , peace , purenesse , lovelinesse , &c. to examples also and practises in scripture ; and what though there be not an expresse precept or a command in terminis for it , yet not being against scriptures but so agreeable to it ( as appeares by all before said ) no sober godly minister or christian should refuse communion with a church or submission to it , and go and set up a church , against a church , and foment a schisme for that : for if they will doe so , and will not goe upon generall rules , equity of examples , light of nature and reason , they must forsake being fixed members of any particular congregation , and forsake all churches in the independant way , and professedly joyne themselves to no assembly in the exercise of instituted worship , because they must practice as great matters concerning externall government and worship of what ever church or government they be of , as this is ; namely the association of churches . let them produce a particular word for the order of gods worship , what must be performed first , what second , what third , what fourth , and so of the rest , and that no ordinance nor part of worship may be in another order ; let them ( if they can ) show a particular word or rule in the new testament for their church covenant ( which yet is an essentiall point , namely , the forme of the church ) let them produce what is required in the word particularly , as the forme of excommunication , or as the forme of ordination , let them set downe the outward worship and gesture of the externall reverence which must be used , and no other way , in the severall ordinances of god , as word , prayer , singing of psalmes , reading scriptures , baptisme , lords supper , excommunication , which if they cannot ( as we know they are not able , neither in these nor many other things which may be named ) let them then learne that many things in government and discipline , have but generall rules with equity of practices , and if they will not joyne , nor have to doe in church government , and discipline , till they have particular commands to walke thus and no otherwise , they shall stay long enough , and be of no church . reason . vii . this consociation and combination in way of synods is granted by themselves , as lawfull and expedient in sundry cases and particulars . as that one church being required , ought to give an account to others , and to be content that matters of difference and importance should be heard by other churches , as also to be advised and counselled by other churches , to have also doctrines that are questionable , tryed , and judged of by synods , to be admonished , and to be reproved also in case they deserve it ; and in case they will not amend , and reforme , upon admonitions and reproofes of synods and assemblies , then they are to be complained of to the civill magistrate , that he may doe his duty : for this see christ on his throne , vid. pag. . examin. of prelat . petition . sions prerog. pag. . protest . protested . now i desire them to satisfie me in their answers they give to these reasons , what grounds they have in scriptures for these practices ; for ministers and elders of severall churches to meet together in greater assemblies , to heare the matters of a particular church , to try and judge doctrines , to admonish and reprove , and to complaine , and that matters may with common advise and consent , be agreed upon , for those churches , excepting onely generall rules and commands with the equity and analogie of examples ; so that if these acts and workes may be done lawfully , then the judging and determining of censures and the imposition of orders and decrees , may be warrantable , especially considering that the example of the synod at jerusalem , ordained those decrees for to be kept of the churches , act. . ver. . so that there was not onely discussion , disputation , common agreement , but imposition of them , besides these acts ( which you grant ) some of them be acts of power and government , other of these acts are church censures , as publicke reproving and admonition upon complaint , and accusations ; as appeares by the tim. . . mat. . ver. , , . so amesius tells us , that the parts of discipline are brotherly correction and excommunication : neither doth discipline consist onely , or chiefely in the thunder-bolt of excommunications , but chiefely in christian correction , and full excomunication is not to be exercised , unlesse to the sinne there be added contumacy . and so admonitions and reproofes upon complaints , are held church censures , by themselves . now then if officers of other congregations with their owne officers may exercise these censures , and that which is the chiefe part of discipline , and if members of other churches ought by the law of communion of churches to seeke advise , helpe , and to submit to admonitions and reproofes , so as there may be good by them , then also may they submit to the decreeing of excommunications by synods : for if discipline may be lawfully exercised in that wherein it chiefely consists , as admonitions and reproofes by officers of other churches , towards members of such a congregation , then may it also be exercised in that wherein it lesse consists , and in this you are no more subject in conscience to a humane ordinance , then you are in publicke admonitions and reproofes . reason . viii . they doe grant and confesse that churches of such a communion and association , if upon complaints of false doctrines , and evill discipline , made to synods and classes , the synods and classes convincing a church of their errors , admonishing , and councelling them to reforme and to censure the obstinate persons among them ; if after all this they shall persist and goe on , that then all these churches ought to withdraw from them , renounce communion and fellowship with them , cast them off , and declare so much to their severall congregations ; now i would know of them ( avoyding strife about names , words , and formes of excommunication ) what is excommunication , but this ? what is it to excommunicate , or to be excommunicated ; but to reject persons , and not to have communion with them , neither in holy nor civill things familiarly ? for proofe of which , see these places . matth. . v. . if he neglect to heare the church , let him be unto thee as a heathen or publican . which words are understood by all men that would found discipline upon this place , to be meant of excommunication . so thes. . v. . , & . they are both understood of excommunication , and they are expressed by keeping no company with them , and by withdrawing communion from them ; so that if officers and churches may doe this lawfully , then they may excommunicate members of other congregations . so tit. . v. . excommunication is expressed under rejecting : so that our independant brethren should not upon word or names , make so great a stirre in the church , and maintaine a controversie , even to separated assemblies ▪ when they doe yeeld the substance ; hence it is , that one of them in that late protestation protested ( meaning , i suppose , no other than his fellowes ) plainely uses the word excommunicate , which was not without a providence to make them yeeld to the truth , not onely in the thing , but in the very name and terme . many other reasons against independancy i could subjoyne to these , as that this overthrowes communion of saints , as the impossibility of this government to any christian common-wealth or nation , &c. besides the taking of all their evasions to these reasons , ( which i easily know and foresee ) as also , an answer to all their arguments and reasons for independancy : but intending this onely for a light skirmish , before i draw up my forces to the maine battell , and sending this forth but ( as a scout ) to discover the strength or weakenesse of the other side , i will adde no more , onely that i doe not feare but that these few souldiers will be able to returne againe alive , and unwounded , and be able to doe more service when they shall be joyned with others , and formed into battalio . reasons against a toleration of some independant chvrches in england . reason . i. though the scriptures speake much for tolerating and bearing one with another in many things , both in matters of opinion and practice , as these places testifie , rom. . , , . . & , . verses . rom. . , . . ver. ephes. . , . ver. phil. . , . ver. yet when differences come either to heresie or schismes , and points be maintained by men , so as to trouble and disturbe the church , then the scriptures are expresse against their toleration and sufferance , requiring them who have power , to hinder it , as may be seene , rev. . . i have a few things against thee , because thou sufferest that woman jesabel , which calleth her selfe a prophetesse to teach , and to seduce my servants . tim. . . timothie must charge some in ephesus to teach no other doctrine . tit. . . men who are unruly , and subvert whole houses , teaching things that they ought not , for filthy lucres sake , their mouthes must be stopped . tit. . . titus must reject a man that is an hereticke after the first and second admonition . rom , . ver. . paul presses upon the romans by earnest beseeching to marke them which cause divisions and offences , contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned , and avoid them , ( which is far from tolerating them . ) so paul writes to the galathians of some who troubled their church , affirming galath. . . . that he who troubleth you shall beare his judgement whosoever he be : and i would they were even cut off which trouble you . on which words pareus gives the exposition , that to beare judgement , is to be punished , that is , troublers and disturbers of a church and people , shall be punished first of god , and then of the church , as also of the magistrate ; and on the . verse : paul wishes they were cut off from the church , which rend the church about circumcision , who trouble and disturbe both the outward peace of the church , as also your faith and consciences : so calvin , on these two verses , . & . speakes thus : but let them heare whoever give occasion of troubles to the churches , who loosen the unity of the faith , who breake peace , and if they have any right understanding , let them tremble at this , for god doth pronounce by the mouth of paul , that no authors of such offences shall be unpunished . they teare and rend the church about circumcision , i would have them to be cut off ▪ neither can this be condemned of cruelty , as if it were against charity , for if we compare the church with one man , or a few , how farre doth that outwaigh ? for it is cruell mercy , which preferres one man , or a few , before the church , &c. now the toleration desired , to set up churches independant , and separated from the churches in the kingdome , it is in it selfe a schisme , a rent , and a troubling , disturbing of the church , so it will prove more and more , ( and cannot be avoided , according to their principles and practices hitherto ) a daily schisme and rent in this church , and an infinite disturbance , both to the outward peace , and to the faith and consciences of the people in this kingdome . the church of england will be as much troubled by it , as ever was the church of galatia , which will appeare more fully in the following reasons . and therefore there ought to be no toleration ; every one in their place ought to be against it , the magistrates , ministers , and people . the permitting and suffering of evill , with the giving of any countenance to it , when men have power to hinder it , is to be partakers of their sinne , tim. . . the second epistle of john , the . verse . qui non prohibet , quando protest , jubet . hee that doth not forbid when he hath power , commands . and let me aske the independant ministers a question or two ; is it fitting that well meaning christians should be suffered to goe and make churches , and then proceed to chuse whom they will for ministers , as some taylor , felt-maker , button-maker , men ignorant , and low in parts , by whom they shall be led into sinne and errors , and to forsake the publicke assemblies , where they may enjoy worthy and pretious pastors , after gods owne heart , who would feed them with knowledge and understanding ? if once there be a toleration of churches , it will be thus , but if they be hindered of all meetings , this would be prevented . so heresies also may take and spread in those separated assemblies , before they can be knowne to the magistrates and ministers of other churches . do not your hearts bleed within you to see and heare of this for the present in severall places , and to thinke what will be hereafter ? o mine doth , and thus if once there were a toleration , how many weake brethren would perish for whom christ dyed ? reason . ii. the toleration desired will not helpe to heale the schismes and tents of this church , ( which is one speciall thing ought to be looked unto in this present reformation of the church ) but will much foment and encrease it . for whilst some congregations , and they accounted of note both for ministers and people , will not submit to the reformation and government setled by law , this will breed in the peoples mindes many thoughts ex natura rei , that this church and government is not ordered according to the word of god , but is unlawfull ; else why should such men most eminent for gifts and graces , ( as many people account them ) refuse to conforme to it ? and this will prove as great and as continued a division betweene the ministers and people of the churches established by law , and the churches tolerated , as ever was betweene conformists and non-conformists about ceremonies ; nay greater , because these are of different churches & congregations , whereas conformists and non-conformists held communion together in one church , though contending about these matters ; and that this will certainly be , may be easily beleeved and foreseene upon these grounds . . because many of the people who yet be not in this church way for their practise , are yet much possessed with these principles of the independant way , as the onely way of god , and are much looking towards it . . the mindes of multitudes of the professors in england , and especially in this city , are upon all occasions very apt to fall to any way in doctrine or discipline that is not commonly received by the church , as accounting some singular perfection to be in that which is new , and held but by a few . . though the ministers of the congregations tolerated , would promise not to preach of these points in publicke , nor in private to speake of them , ( which yet they will not be tyed unto ) yet their people many of them both men and women , are so strangely bold , pragmaticall , and so highly conceited of their way ( as the kingdome of christ and the onely way of christ ) that what out of those principles , and what by vertue of their relations in friendship , kindred , &c. there would be continuall drawing of many , and many falling to them . . the prime principles of this church way , as namely independancie , liberty , power , of government and rule to be in the people , are mighty pleasing to flesh and blood ; people generally , chiefely meane persons , and such who have beene kept under , affecting independancie , liberty , power , and rule . . the grant of a toleration will be made use of by them for the strengthning of their way to be the truth ; and will be interpreted in this sense , that they had such grounds and reasons , as the ablest ministers in the kingdome could not answer , and therefore were content they should have a toleration , ( else if they could have satisfied them , what needed a toleration ? ) onely though they could not answer their reasons , and had nothing to say , yet they would not come to them , and this will be spoken of by their followers , that we would not bee convinced , though we could say nothing against it : all which will ( as a meanes to encrease their side ) occasion continuall strifes , divisions , heart-burnings both of ministers against ministers , and people against people , so that in stead of union and peace in the kingdome and church , we shall have notwithstanding all reformation , a greater division and rent succeede than ever before . reason . iii. this toleration will not onely breede divisions and schismes , disturbing the peace and quiet of churches and townes , by setting them who are of different families , and in more remote relations one against another , but it will undoubtedly cause much disturbance , discontent , and divisions in the same families even betweene the nearest relations of husbands and wives , fathers and children , brothers and sisters , masters and servants : the husband being of one church , & the wife of another ; the father of one , & the childe of another ; the master of the church established by law , the servant of the tolerated ; one brother of one church , and another brother of another ; and so all oeconomicall relations and duties will be much disturbed , when as they of one house , and they in one bed shall be so divided , as that they shall not be of one church , nor worship god together in word , sacraments , prayer , but apart . o how will this overthrow all peace and quiet in families , filling husbands and wives with discontents , and setting at variance fathers and children , each against other , weakning that fervent love in those relations ! o how will this occasion disobedience , contempt , neglects of governours from the inferiors of the family , whilst the governours be looked upon by them , as not in a true church ! o how will this toleration take away ( for every saint must bee free to joyne himselfe voluntarily to what congregation he please ) that power , authority , which god hath given the husbands , fathers , and masters , overwives , children , servants ; whilst that they shall joyne against their wills to such churches , and be stollen from them against their pleasure : nei●her can the governours be able to judge of their pro●● in the word , nor be certaine they sanctifie the lords day ( according as god hath layd the charge upon them in the fourth commandement ) when as the children and servants are of other churches ; so that by these and many other things which will be found in experience , this toleration will pervert , disturbe , that order of gods owne appointing , namely the relations , duties , and workes of families , which were there nothing else to be sayd against it , this were enough , god certainely appointing no such church way●●s is crosse to the good and peace of families ( one orcer of god certainely not destroying another . ) now how strong this reason is against this toleration , i submit to the judgement of that court , which hath the legislative power , they knowing well that both churches and common-wealths are made of families all issuing out from thence , they being the seminaries and nurseries for both , and if there be a ground-worke layd for disturbances , divisions , and disorders there , what can be firme , peaceable , or sure ? reason . iiii. there will be great danger of continuall divisions , distractions , disputes amongst us , not onely from the different forme of government and worship in their churches and ours ; but from other doctrines and practises held by some of them for the present ( as for instance that saints when they dye , goe not to heaven where christ is , but they goe to a third place ; the sitting with their hats on at the receiving of the lords supper , &c. ) and others that will be dayly broached , and then their churches being independant and not under the government of any out of themselves , they will goe on without being hindred ; and whereas we have now too many new and strange doctrines , we shall have nothing but errours and novelties broached , and so greater contentions and breaches amongst us . reason . v. the most eminent ministers in this kingdome for parts , grace , and labours , can have little assurance of the continuance of their flockes to them , if such a toleration be granted , for they will draw away their people , and admit them into their churches , and even gather and encrease their churches out of the labours of the best ministers , the ministers shall doe little else but spend , and be spent , for to fit men for them ; when ministers have travelled in birth of children , and should have comfort and joy in them , then they will be stollen away . this toleration upon any discontent taken or any light occasion of demanding dues , or preaching against any thing they like not , opens a wide dore and will invite them to desert their ministers ; and what a sadding of the heart and discouragement in the worke of the lord , this must be to the ministers of the kingdome , let all judge . reason . vi . a toleration of churches to bee erected as independant , to enjoy liberty and exemption from the estabilshed , will be undoubtedly a meanes and way of their infinite multiplication and encrease , even to increase them . fold , so that if the parliament could like to have more of the breede , and have a delight to have multitudes to be exempted from the ecclesiasticall lawes of the land , ( which parliaments never did ) no way like this : for we see within this nine moneths ( though there be no toleration of their way ) yet having not beene lookt after , how are they increased and multiplyed ? and that there will be a mighty encrease upon a toleration ( to say nothing of casting a snare upon the people , by this to make doubts , nor nothing of the wantonnesse and instability of many professours , nor of the activenesse of many to spread these principles that their party may be considerable ) this may evince it : in many , if not in most townes and parishes it cannot be helped , but that there are and will be for many yeeres , men of no great popular gifts for preaching , who also according to their principles , not having beene brought up to it , cannot so comply with their people : now many that live in these parishes ( seeing they may keepe their houses and places of abode ) upon the newes of a toleration , will for the benefit of more powerfull , practicall , and zealous preaching , betake themselves to goe to their churches , ( which liberty they cannot have in the churches established , for the law ( it is likely ) will provide for men to keepe to their owne ministers , where there is sufficient preaching ) and so will fall to their principles , and so wee shall have upon this grouud swarmes of them . reason . vi . the prime and fundamentall principles of this independant way , upon which they erect their church way and independancy , are very prejudiciall , dangerous , and unsufferable , to this kingdome , as for instances , saints qua saints , two or three of them or more , they onely have an immediate independant power from christ their immediate head , to gather and combinde themselves into visible churches , without expecting warrant from any governours whatsoever upon earth , as also being thus gathered and joyned into a church , to chuse all officers among themselves , and to exercise all discipline and ecclesiasticall government , even to excomunication , without and against the good will and consent of the christian magistrates , but the magistrates whether kings and princes , or states , they have no power , but in all things of the visible church christ is an immediate governour to the saints , having put none of his power out of his hands to any magistrate whatsoever , but though he hath given much power to magistrates over goods , liberties , and lives of his saints , yet this spirituall power of gathering and making churches , and of the power of exercising censures and discipline so as it may not be exercised without their power and leave , he hath not given them ; so that i desire them to consider and enquire whether this denying to kings and princes power and authority in causes ecclesiasticall in the church , and giving all spirituall , ecclesiasticall power immediately , and independantly under christ to the particular congregations , and not to the king , be not against these lawes and statutes of the land , made in . henry the . cap. . . yeere of henry the . cap. . and the . yeere of elizabeth cap. . where it will be found that all jurisdiction , superiority , spirituall and ecclesiasticall , as by any spirituall or ecclesiasticall power or authority hath beene , or may lawfully be exercised , for the visitation of the ecclesiasticall state and persons , and for reformation , order and correction of the same , and of all manner of errours , heresies , schismes , abuses , offences , &c. shall for ever by authority of this present parliament , be united and annexed to the imperiall crowne of this realme . as also that no orders nor constitutions may be enacted in the church without the kings assent , and hence the oath of supremacie was appointed by law for every ecclesiasticall person to take : hence i aske the independant men , seeing they give that immediate ecclesiasticall power to their particular churches , which the papists doe to the pope , whether they will take the oath of supremacie , or doe acknowledge in their prayers that title of the king , defendor of the faith , &c. secondly , they hold that things lawfull in themselves ( as for instance , set formes of prayer acknowledged by them to be lawfull ) yet being enjoyned by authority are now unlawfull , so that though a forme of prayer be lawfull , yet being imposed for order , uniformity , that alters the case ( a strange paradox that things lawfull in themselves tending to order and peace , should become unlawfull when commanded . ) they affirme that christian princes & magistrates who are defenders of the faith , have no more to doe in and about the church then heathen princes . some of them deny also and question that received axiome , that the magistrate is custos utriusque tabulae ; saying of those kings of judah and israel who medled in the church with reformation and establishment of religion , that they did it not as kings , but as types of christ : so that i leave it to better judgement whether it be safe for a kingdome to tolerate such churches who maintaine and vent upon all occasions such kinde of principles ; and as the principles , so the people for a great part of them be dangerous and insufferable , heady , refractory , proud , bitter , scornefull , despisers of authority , who though but a few comparatively and the lawes standing , have attempted not to suffer the publicke prayers to be prayed , but what with singing , what with clapping on of hats in times of prayer , what with reviling and threatning of ministers , have laboured to hinder their use : now if they dare attempt such practises and things being but a few , the lawes being point blanke against them , and the lawes establishing the other , what will they not doe when they shall be multiplyed and tolerated , if they come once to a great head ? we may feare they will not tolerate the churches , and government established by law : but what insolencies and mischiefes will follow upon their toleration , not onely in ecclesiasticall government , but in civill , i leave such who are experienced men in matters of government to fore-see and judge of , but hereafter too late to remedie , but i desire rather to pray against a toleration , than to prophecy of the wofull effects of it . reason . viii . these independant men where they have power ( as in new england ) will not give a toleration for any other ecclesiasticall government or churches but in their owne way , they would not suffer men of other opinions in doctrine and government to live within the bounds of their patent , though at the furthest bounds , but have banished them . they were sent to from england by some godly ministers their brethren , men otherwise approved by them , as being against ceremonies , who being in danger of leaving the land , sent to know if they might have liberty according to their consciences to goe in a church way , something differing from theirs , and not in this independant popular government ; to which question you may reade the answer , they could not grant any other forme of government but one , seeing there is but one way of church government layd downe in the word , and that unchangeable , and therefore they cannot yeeld to it . so others of them will nottolerate , or admit into fellowship the godliest christians , unlesse they will enter into covenant , professe their faith , submit to their church orders , though they would be of their church ; so that these men who now would faine have a toleration in this great kingdome will not allow any in a remote plantation , nor in one of their small particular congregations , for feare of disturbing the peace of their church , and yet would have a toleration in this kingdome , never caring to disturbe the peace , and good of the three kingdomes which would be much hazarded by it , but thus partiall men are ( and you may observe it ) t is ordinary for men when they are not in place nor have no power in church or common-wealth , and hold also doctrines and principles contrary to what is held , and established , then to plead for tolerations , when as the same parsons comming to be in place and to have power , wil not tolerate others to set up any way different from theirs . and i beleeve those present men , who here are endeavouring a toleration for their churches had they the power in their hands to settle a government , we should have no government tolerated , nor church but the independant way , and for this see the protestation protested , what he thinkes of our church , and of what ever government shall be established . reason . ix . atoleration may be demaunded upon the same grounds for all the rigid brownists of the kingdom and for all the anabaptists , familists , and other sectaries , who professe t is conscience in them , and in some respects upon better grounds it may be moved by them , as being perswaded we are no true church , then for these semi-separatists ; nay whether may not the papists petition to , and hope to have a toleration of religion , seeing it is conscience in many of them as well as you , and if once an exemption be given from the religion established by law to one sort , why may not others thinke to have the same priviledge ? and therefore if ever the dore of tolerations should be but a little opened , there would be great crouding by al sorts to enter in at it . reason . x. the granting a toleration of this independant way whose first & fundamental principle is , that two or three saints , where ever or by what meanes soever they doe arise , separating themselves from the world into the fellowship of the gospell , are a church truely gathered and that they only have an immediate and independant power from christ their immediate head to gather and combine themselvs without expecting warrant from any governours whatsoever upon earth to make a church , doth make way for any thing for libertinism or for any opinion in the world , that so all who fall into any doctrine , or any who like not their owne ministers and church government , either because they restraine them from sinne or keepe them to gods ordinances , they may goe three or foure of them , and enter into covenant among themselves , and be a church and live without ministers and sacraments along time upon pretence that they can finde none fit for them yet ( as these independant men doe ) and when they doe chuse , then chuse such of their owne opinions and wayes , and so they may live together at liberty in ways pleasing themselves : neither can this helpe it , to say this belongs onely to saints , 't is their prerogative royall and not others , for all heretickes , sectaries , or libertines will count themselves saints as well as our independant men : they may be their owne judges , and will say that they are saints as well as you say , for the ministers and magistrates of the kingdome shall not have the power to determine who be saints and who not , so that if the state should tolerate the independancie , they know not what they tolerate , but in the belly of this independancie they tolerate and make way for libertinisme , heresie , and what ever satan and the corrupt hearts of men have a pleasure to broach and fall into . reason . x. i propound this question what these men would have in this toleration , whether the number of these independant congregations , that they would have tolerated , should be five or six congregations onely , and no more , or shall the number be left undetermined ; to bee free to multiply into as many churches as they please : if the number must be determined , this will overthrow their principles and churches quickely , as when one church breakes into two or three , as upon their principles it must , and oft times doth , as at amsterdam into two , at roterdam also , and at london , and when one of the tolerated churches breakes into two or three , which shall be reckoned , that that is the church allowed of by the state , for each part will pretend to it : but now if they say the number must be left undetermined , then we may quickely have halfe a dozen of their churches in some one parish of a city or towne , nay two or three churches in a place , sprung out of one of their owne , and we may have every where three or foure men of an opinion , differing from others to goe make a different church , and so they will encrease in infinitum , and there will be no end of divisions , and subdivisions . but before i conclude , i will answer five or sixe reasons , that be commonly alledged by them , for their toleration in this kingdome . reason . i. this is no more than what is granted to the french , and dutch , who live amongst us , and have churches and government of their owne way , exempt from the government established . answer . the case is quite different , and that will appeare by these particulars . first , those french and dutch protestants have nothing , nor desire nothing , but that which is originally according to the church and people they were borne and brought up in , they enjoy nothing as contra-distinct to the protestants of france and holland , but the independant men move for that which is contra-distinct to their owne church and nation ; yea , and to all reformed churches . secondly , this liberty was granted by our pious princes in times of persecution to the protestants , that so they might have here the exercise of their religion in their owne tongue , when they could not enjoy it at home , and it hath beene of great use upon occasions in this way ever since , for a refuge to the persecuted protestants , but what is your case to this ? you may enjoy the protestant religion in this land , and that by the law and authority of king and parliament , what colour then , that you should move for an exemption of your churches ? thirdly , these french and dutch churches will willingly be joyned in government , and in one way of discipline with the kingdome , if there be a reformation , which you will not . fourthly , these churches are not in an independant government , neither doe they hold your principles of the church , but be as much against them ( as we ) they doe admit of appeales , and in all businesse of greater moment have synods . fifthly , they being strangers amongst us of different nations and tongues , not having those relations of kindred and acquaintance with us , but keeping themselves , for the most part , among themselves , there is not that danger of drawing away the people , nor of causing schismes , as from you that are of our nation , and tongue ; neither have they , or doe ever vent principles against our church and government , ( as you doe ) but content themselves with their owne way , they neither can , nor will admit ours to be members of their congregations , in respect our people understand not their language , so that the people are so farre from leaving our churches , and becomming members of theirs , as that our people cannot so much as resort to their congregations to heare them preach , they preaching in a language the people understand not , all which is quite contrary with you . sixthly , there is a great reason and necessity of allowing them churches and places to preach , and bee by themselves , because many of them understand not english at all , and for the benefit of strangers of their religion who come over , who else could not enjoy the publicke exercise of their religion at all , and they may well be allowed some discipline among themselves in respect they maintaine al their own poore , not charging the parishes where they live with them : all which will not hold as a ground for toleration of independancy : their meetings by themselves , are not upon your principles of a church , or church government , but because of different language , &c. reason . ii. vve seeke no more then what is granted us in holland , and what wee may enjoy there in a countrey where we be strangers . . answer . if your toleration in holland , be a good ground for a toleration here , that we should doe so because holland doth it , then there should be a toleration for all religions amongst us , as jewes , anabaptists , &c. and if you would have it so , speake out plainely , there are some of you have whispered it , and often spoke of it in private , in the answer you give to these reasons . speake your mind , and if you justifie a toleration of all religions , i will discusse that question with you , and take it up against you as not fit , neither in divinity nor policy , as both against rules of conscience and policy . secondly , there may be a toleration of you in holland , with much more safety to the government established and peace of that church , then can be here in this kingdome , the people of that country not understanding your language , having little or no relation to you , nor you to them , of kindred , friendship , where as it is quite otherwise here . thirdly , that people of the hollanders generally are an industrious people minding their businesses , profits , and keeping to what 's established by their lawes , not troubling their heads so much with other points of religion , but here in england and especially in the city of london , and great townes , many professors are more idle and busie bodies , tatlers also , as it is said , tim. . . ver. very wanton also in their wits , affecting novelties in religion , and liking of points that are not established nor commonly held . fourthly , holland tolerates you and many others , but it is more upon grounds and necessitie of worldly respects , because of that benefit of excise towards the maintenance of warres which they have from them who live amongst them , so that they are paid well for it , so that in this they measure things rather vina mercatoria , than by the rule of scriptures ; and were it not for that and such respects which the state of that state hath put them upon , they would never grant tolerations , but there is not the same reason here in any respect , our riches and strength standing in one way of religion and not in tolerations . reason . iii. if wee may not have a toleration and a liberty of erecting some congregations among you , this will force us to leave the kingdome that wee may have the liberty of our consciences , and if you doe , what cruelty is this . . answer . there is no need of a toleration for you , and yet no need of forcing you to leave the kingdome that you may enjoy your consciences , and that will appeare if you calmely and meekely be content to heare reasons and principles which you your selves agree to , as namely , you hold that our churches be true churches , our ministers true ministers , ordinances of word , sacraments true , and that you can partake with us in our congregations in all ordinances even in comming to the lords supper , provided that scandalous and ignorant persons be kept backe , and ceremonies removed ; why then should you desire to set up other churches , as different from ours ? you can have but word , prayer , sacraments , and discipline in your owne , that you may enjoy in ours , is this any good reason for you to leave the kingdome ? i pray consider well , some of your ministers at first comming over said ( as i have beene told from good hands ) they could take the charge of parochiall churches amongst us upon the reformation hoped for , and they could yeild to presbyteriall government , by classes and synods , so not enjoyned to submit to it , as jure divino , but since they have gotten some more hopes ( i know not upon what grounds ) they are now very hot for a toleration , and will not heare of growing into one body with us . secondly , seeing our churches , ministers , and ordinance , be true , for you to erect new , and to withdraw from such churches ( though suppose they were in some things defective and not every way so rightly ordered as were to be desired ) i know can never be answered to god , especially you having not the power and authority from god to order those churches otherwise , and i desire you againe and againe to waigh whether you may not live in the communion of such churches , where some thing may be yet desired that is not , where it is not in your power to helpe , but that you are bound by the command of god in such cases either to leave the kingdome for that liberty , or else being private men in a land where true churches , ministers , and ordinances are , to goe and set up divided churches in that land , both against the lawes of the land , and to the scandall of all the churches , i beseech you thinke upon it what is become of fraterna toleratio , and of giving scandall , not to one brother , but to thousands of congregations of christ . and whether nothing wanting in matter of order , may be tolerated so long as a man is not put upon the practise of that which is unlawfull . as for those brownists whose principles and consciences ( though very erroneous ) hold that we have no true church , ministery , ordinances , but all is antichristian , they have a better warrant to set up new assemblies , or to leave the kingdome to enjoy their way ; but as for you to withdraw and set up separated assemblies upon no greater grounds , or causes , can never be justified , and i shall be ready upon that point to deale with any of you , and for your better satisfaction for the present , i wish the conscientious and sober ministers to read two pages in master robinsons apologie , chap. . de eccle. anglic. pag. , . wherein he grants that churches may not be departed from for circumstantiall corruptions , nor for many inconveniencies , affirming that it is neither christian prudence nor charity to doe so ; he shewes it is not an intolerable evill ( though an evill to be lamented ) for evill men to be suffered in the church , nor that discipline as it is called , or that ecclesiasticall government instituted by christ , is neglected , or violated , but that 's it , that the plaine contrary to it should be established by law , and so he goes on : now supposing our reformation , it will be otherwise with england then when he writ and the most that can be said ( supposing your principles the truth , ( though that 's denyed by us ) there will be but evill men suffered , and not men of the most profligate life , and discipline instituted willbe but neglected or violated , not that which is quite contrary as established by law , take place . thirdly , you your selves live in , and are members of such churches , and thinke it unlawfull to forsake them , where , for many yeares together you beare with defects , and want some parts of government , and officers appointed by christ , more materiall then will be in ours , upon a reformation , as namely , without pastors , elders , widowes , many yeares together , without sacraments a long time , without censures especially unlesse you allow people to be the instruments and exercise excommunication without having ordination of officers , without prophecying also many yeares ; why can you not beare with some defects in our churches , and be content to waite some yeares , till god either give you light to see your mistakes , or else till we have more light to perfect what is wanting ? you tell us that some things may be omitted for a time , as circumcision was in the wildernesse , and that affirmatives doe not binde too alwayes , and that exercise of discipline may be forborne for a time , when it is evident , it will not be for edification to the church , but destruction ; what shall hinder then , but that you ought to incorporate into our assemblies , though something yet were to be desired ? there is nothing contrary that will be put upon you ( nor quite another thing . ) fourthly , you may safely be members of our congregations in the reformation of us , and in these times , because you may without danger shew your dislike and speake against scandalous persons , and against the fault of the church , if they admit such to the sacrament , which being done , your selves grant you may communicate with them , so a letter sent from roterdam grants . and i have heard this alledged , as the reason why you first left our churches , but that reason now ceases , seeing either such persons will be wholly kept away , or else you may protest against them ( though i must tell you , that practise you judge your selves tyed to , is founded upon a false principle ) namely that the power of government is given by christ to the body of the congregation . fifthly , there is a medium betweene persecution ( as you terme it ) and a publicke toleration , a middle way betweene not suffering men to live in the land , and the granting them a liberty of separated assemblies , so that there is no necessity either of leaving the land , or of enjoying exempt congregations ( for there is a third datur tertium ) as for instance , persons may be tolerated to inhabit in a land , to enjoy their lands , and liberties , and not be compelled to professe and practise things which are against their consciences ; it is one thing to be forced and compelled positively to doe things against conscience , and another thing , not to be suffered the publicke practise of some things in separated congregations , as to illustrate it thus , suppose the papists upon their petitions to the parliament should have those statutes repealed , which enjoynes them to come to our churches , ( which they say is against their consciences ) though indeed they are bound by the command of god to come , and ought by the magistrate to be compelled to come ( as doctor davenant hath cleerely showed ) yet the granting the papists a toleration of the publicke exercise of their religion , to the scandall of the reformed churches and dishonour of god , were quite another thing , insomuch as the papists though they petition the first , ( upon deepe protestation of living peaceably , and according to the lawes of the land ) yet they move not for the last : so i judge you may live in the land freely , and enjoy your liberties and estates , comming to our churches , enjoying the ordinances , and are like never to be compelled to professe or practise what is against your judgements , the greatest inconvenience is but the forbearing of something you would have , which considering the questionablenesse of the thing , and the many other evills which would attend it , if you should enjoy it , you may in point of conscience be well satisfied without it ; so that consider well , and you may find a medium betweene leaving the land and enjoying a toleration of exempt congregations . sixthly , if all these former answers satisfie you not fully , because ( though these things be true ) yet besides these ordinances and ministers , you must be in a church way and fellowship , as now you are , then know , according to your principles of a visible church , laid downe by master robinson , and by your selves in all your manuscripts , you may enjoy your way in having severall visible churches , and that without that offence and scandall to magistrates and churches , and yet neither leave the kingdome , nor have a toleration , and that i will demonstrate thus ; two or three saints joyning together in a covenant make a church , a greater number is not required , neither officers to the essence of a church ; a greater addition of company to this two or three , though they may make for the well being and flourishing of the church , yet they are not of the essence of the church . now then every one of you in your owne families , as the husband , wife , children of age , and servants , who are visible saints , may be joyned in covenant to walke in gods wayes , and to watch over one another , so that here is a church , and every master in his family may set up holy exercises , and exercise discipline among themselves for their families , and thus in the church that is in their house , they may exercise what discipline they judge is wanting in ours , so that comming to our churches to the word , prayer , sacraments , they may serve god in their owne families among themselves in a church way , in wayes of admonition , reproofe , and other censures ; nay every church family , or most of them may have officers also amongst them , the ministers families may have a pastor or teacher , each minister being made pastor of his owne family , chosen also he may be by his family , who also may preach and instruct his family , and exercise discipline amongst them ; great families , as gentlemen or citizens may themselves be teachers of their families , according to your principles , or may have some in their families fit to be chosen elders and teachers to them , especially such of them who keepe schollers in their houses , and still chosen by the church of this family : but if there be some church families who have none fit for officers to their church ( which can hardly be in these kindes of churches ) yet this is not of the essence of the church . but as for single persons , as young men and mayds , who are of your judgement , if you aske what they shall doe , seeing they have no families , and cannot joyne two or three in a family to make a church . i answer , they may be servants unto men of their owne judgement , and live in the families of their owne way , and so may be in a church : and thus you may enjoy your owne way without scandall or division , the lawes not forbidding or medling what men doe in this kind , as how oft men pray in their owne families , or catechise them , or whom they shut out from their prayers and holy duties : but if it be said , how shall such ( as are bred schollers , the ministers of this way ) be maintained ? it is not being ministers to their owne family will maintaine them ? i answer , i have taken care to show them a way for maintenance also , how they may enjoy their country , their consciences , and maintenance , that so they need not be forced to seeke a toleration of churches , that they may be maintained , and that is thus ; supposing they will not take pastorall charges of parishes , but onely be pastors of the church in their house , yet holding it lawfull ( as they doe ) to preach in our congregations , they may take lectures amongst us , and so be maintained , there will be want of many men for lectures setled by gifts of the dead , and then no question but the government of the church , which shall be established by law , will be so moderate , that if men hold the maine points of doctrine with the church , be pious in life and peaceable , so as not to preach nor speake against what 's established by law , nor doe not make schismes to goe and set up separated assemblies ( which practises caused troubles in the church ) they may enjoy all liberty and ( as many scriptures show ) freedome , though in point of opinion and judgement there may be some difference from things established by law ( for i suppose we shall not have subscriptions enjoyned to formes of government and discipline ) but onely to doctrines , and that also in maine and cleere poynts , so that by all this you may apprehend how without a toleration , you may in a secret and peaceable way enjoy your church fellowship with maintenance also . what ever else you seeke for by a toleration of many families to make a church , is but for the more comfort & flourishing of your way , but not as that which is necessary to your way , now in a busines which is but of conveniency , & not of necessity , according to your principles , ( though you had a liberty & priviledge to enjoy it , yet ) where so muchscandal may come of your liberty , and it cannot be avoyded ( for though one of the more sober and conscientious ministers and people could use it better , yet most would abuse it ; as the rigid brownists , anabaptists , and many weake christians ) you should not use it but forbeare , so the apostle teaches us , cor. . v. . so gal. . v. . . . now a scandall is some word or action , giving an occasion of ruine to a weake brother , which practice of yours would certainely doe ; now to the avoiding the scandall of the weake , all those things are to be done or omitted , which may be done or omitted without sinne , as amesius grants , lib. . de cons. cap. . so gerson speakes , part . reg. moral . a man is bound to desist from every act , to which be is not necessarily tyed , where upon good grounds the scandall of the weake is feared . now the setting up of separated assemblies in this church , may be omitted without sinne , neither are ye necessarily tyed to it , as will appeare by this sixth answer . besides , considering all the former answers , wherein you see what you may enjoy in this kingdome in liberty of ordinances and consciences , you are not tyed for some matter of convenience , which you might enjoy in another kingdome , to withdraw from this church , and to leave your owne country , for your satisfaction in which point , i had rather doctor amesius should speake then i , to whom i referre you , who in his cases of conscience about this point , saith thus . a man may keepe communion with a church wherein wicked men are suffered , and good men depressed , and that upon severall reasons , amongst others , upon this ground ; because from such a church to a purer , there is oft times no removing without great dammages and hinderance , which ought to be avoyded alwayes ( as much as may be ) without sinne : yea such dammages and losses doe sometimes cause that an affirmative precept ceases to bind . a man may joyne himselfe and live in such a church , in which many defects are necessarily to be tolerated , yea , and joyne to that church , where the power of removing scandalls , and casting out wicked men is taken away , if he cannot without great prejudice and hurt , goe to a freer church , and men sinne not either in joyning to such a church , or continuing in it . but yet further he grants , a man may be a member of such a church in which some things instituted by christ are wanting ; and where some things appointed by men are introduced . so that i beseech you brethren , lay all these six answers together , and consider sadly whether god requires of you , unlesse you may have a toleration , to leave the kingdome : to run many hazards and dangers for churches after your way , when as you may enjoy so much at home without a toleration of exempt assemblies , as i have opened in these six answers . seventhly , if notwithstanding all that is said to you you will not be satisfied , without setting up churches against the church , it were better for you to leave the kingdome , and to returne backe to your charges , and families into holland , and others of your minde , who cannot be satisfied , to leave the land , and to goe to new england , or else where , rather then by erecting of churches by toleration or without it to disturbe the good and peace of three kingdomes ; and this will be no great harme to many of you , for you may easily returne , being able to live and subsist there comfortably ( as you say your selves : ) and for my owne part were i of your way ( so farre as i know my owne heart ) i had rather goe to the uttermost parts of the earth , though to live in a hard and meane condition , than to disturbe the peace or good of three kingdomes , as you would doe by a toleration . looke what is commonly said , praestat ut pereat unus quam unit as , it is better that one perish than unity , so i say it is farre better a few ministers and people wanted some outward accommodations of their owne countrey than that the good of the whole should be so in danger , neither is there any cruelty or persecution in it , ( as they will be apt to phrase it ) for if the purity of doctrine , holinesse of life , peace of the church cannot be preserved by such a toleration ( as i have in part shewed , and can make it plaine ) then it ought not to be , and i will speake for my selfe , and in the behalfe of hundreds of my brethren , painefull in the ministery , who have borne the brunt of the times , that we professe we will submit to the reformation and government established by law , which we doubt not but will be very blessed and glorious , but however things should fall out , we would either patiently tolerate what is not in our spheare to reforme , or quietly sit downe in the kingdome , or else with leave betake our selves to some other countryes , being fully resolved in our consciences , that circumstances in and about externall formes of government in matter of order can never be sufficient grounds to us , to set up churches against a church where true churches are , and so to prove meanes of eternall divisions and heart-burnings between ministers and people . reason . iiii. i but if these ministers , and some such churches be not tolerated , they are afraid that in time they shall draw most of the good people out of the land after them . first answer . i heare one of them say so , but i suppose they rather hope then feare it , and this plainely shewes they have a good conceit of themselves , and of their owne way . secondly , for their feare , we feare too ( but not as they doe ) but this , that if they have a toleration , they may draw away many good people , especially if the ceremonies and the liturgy stand in full force , and their churches tolerated , they will make brave worke in a short time ( though i am confident god will preserve many judicious , advised christians from their way notwithstanding : ) but let there be no toleration granted , and they once well shipt , and a reformation amongst us in government , and ministers , that feare is over with me , we feare it not , that many will follow them , for when that which first bred these men , the violent pressing of ceremonies , the casting out of good ministers , the many notorious persons suffered in the church without all censure , shall be removed , many will not be bred , and others will be satisfied , and i doubt it not but that the godly and painefull ministers of the church of england , may and will , both out-preach them , and out-live them , and may be compared with them for all excellencies , and abilities : for my part i shall speake as i finde , i knew many of them long before they fell to this way , and know them since , and have not seene any of them better , or more profitable in life and ministry , for their charge ; onely this i am sure of , for some of them , whereas whilst of the church of england they preacht often , now seldome , they goe looser in their apparell and haire , they take lesse care for the publicke in things that concerne the glory of god and salvation of mens soules , their principles & spirits grow very narrow like their churches , they grow more strange , reserved , subtile , in a word , they minde little else but the propagation of their independant way , ( as the protestation protested witnesseth abundantly ) and i shall speake my conscience from the experience i have had of many of them having studyed and observed them and their writings and never saw nor heard of any men who fell fully to that way , that ever had so large a spirit for good , afterwards to take that care of propagating the gospell and preaching the word to men without ; i never knew any man that ever god honoured so much , after he fell to those principles as before , though the same persons before have beene active for god , doing famously and worthily , yet when they fall to this way , they either blemish themselves , or doe little ; and the truth is , those principles of separation be such as god did never honour much the men who held them : looke what is sayd by them of episcopacie , that the very calling of it hath such a malignity in it , that it hurts the best men that are placed in those chaires , that i may say truely , of this way , there is a malignity cleaves to it , hurting the men that fall to it , by altering their spirits and contracting their hearts , ( though many of them continue good in the maine . ) reason . v. this is no other but envie in the ministers that makes them against a toleration , because they feare their people will desert them and come to us , being so pure in ordinances and churches ; and thus the protestation protested speakes , and t is frequently in some of their mouths . answ. . it is not out of envy to their ministers and christians ; for first i hold their practise sinfull and unwarrantable to separate from our churches and to erect such congregations , and therefore i speake against it , and that by the helpe of god i shall make good in a following discourse . . it cannot be counted envie in ministers to be unwilling to have their flockes and people fall from them , is it envie in a father to be unwilling to have his children stollen from him and tempted away by strangers ? i aske such of you who be fathers if you would be willing to have your children forsake you and that with renouncing the womb that bare them , & the paps that gave them sucke , throwing dirt into the face of father and mother ? now this is the case for ministers , to have their spirituall children whom they have begotten to god , who are their comfort and the fruite of all their labours to fall from them and to despite them afterwards cannot be pleasing , neither ought it : looke what the jewes gave out falsely concerning the naturall body of christ that his disciples came by night and stole it away , that may be sayd truely of his mysticall body , beleevers you by your tolerations would have your disciples come by night and steale them away , and therefore we ought not to sleepe , but to watch against you . answ. . i envie you not , but pity and love you , and would not have you have such a sword as a toleration put into your hands ( though some amongst you perhaps might use it better ) to hurt your selves with , and to have such an occasion to run upon the rocke of schisme , and to goe out of the way dayly turning into errours on the right hand . answ. . this author would intimate and make the world beleeve , as if only the honest soules were with them , and would be for their way , but as for them who be against their way and toleration , they are not such honest soules : but let them know honest soules are not onely with them , for in the church of england there ever have beene , and are as honest ministers and people that have rejected your way , as ever any that fell to it , nay the greatest non-conformists and most able in that way , have writ the most against you , and laboured upon all occasions to preserve people from falling to you , as mr cartwright , mr brightman , mr parker , mr hildersham , dr ames , mr bradshawe , mr ball , mr dod , mr baines , with many others . reason . vi . i but they be good men , and men of great gifts , and therefore they should bee tolerated to have such churches , t is pity they should leave the land , and we lose their prayers . answ. . the better men they be , and the more able , the worse to set up separated churches , for they will the more endanger the peace of the kingdome , and make the schismes greater . . for their prayers we may have the benefit of them as well when they are absent as present , and some of them have sayd , they pray'd more for england , when out of it than when in it . . they left the kingdome when it was in greatest danger and in most neede of helpe , and provided for themselves to keepe in a whole skin , and without them we stood here in the gap , and prevailed with god , and rather than to buy their company at such a rate as a toleration , it is better to want it , as i shewed before , and i question not but the kingdome will doe well enough though they returne , and the better unlesse they cease sowing of their principles . . for this objection of being good men , i shall answere it at large in another tractate , wherein i shall minde men of many dangers that may arise to them from good and eminent men , and fully shew what little strength there is in that reason ; clearing also many things in reference to that objection . quest . i , but may not conscientious men who agree with us in the maine in points of doctrine and practise , be tolerated and spared in some things wherein they differ from what is commonly received ? answ. yes , i doe in my judgement much allow of bearing and forbearing one another in many differences of opinions and practises , so as christians ought not to judge nor censure one another , nor refuse communion and fellowship by not admitting men into their churches and to the ordinances upon such points ( which is the great fault of the independant churches , denying communion to many saints for some differences in judgement about church government and orders ; which practise of theirs is expresse against the . rom. . ) neither to force men to change their mindes and opinions by casting them violently out of the ministry and church ( which was the practise of many in these late times , and hath caused so many schismes and stirres amongst us : ) i approve not such practises , but desire to be a follower and lover of all the wayes of peace and communion , with any who agree in the maine , and have something of god and christ in them : the practise of anicetus and polycarpus , with that of cyprian , are infinitely pleasing to me ( and i wish they were more imitated ) polycarpus and anicetus in the difference about keeping of dayes , though neither of them could perswade the other to change their custome , yet they kept fast the bond of christian fellowship ; anicetus admitting polycarpus to the communion of the roman church , and departing in peace one from the other . cyprian ( though he erred in the point of rebaptization ) yet he would not condemne them rashly who were of a contrary opinion , nor refuse communion with them , professing that for the difference of opinions , he would not breake the lords peace with his colleagues , nor remove any that was of a different minde from him , from the right of communion : so that men may be tolerated in their differences of opinions , so long as they keepe communion with a church , and submit to the discipline and orders so as to be peaceable and not to speake against what 's established by common consent , nor practise to the scandall and contempt of the magistrates and church : but if a few men , halfe a dozen or halfe a score ministers , refuse communion with a church , rending from the body , by setting up of a church against a church , preaching and venting their opinions every where , to the disturbance of a kingdome , and the drawing of disciples after them , though they were ministers of gold , and had the tongue of men and angells , yet they should not have a toleration ; upon which subject they may read a calvins last epistle to farellus , wherein calvins counsell concerning farellus colleague is this ; that if he will not be reduced to order , the ministers should tell him that he is not to be reckoned of as a brother , who doth disturbe the common discipline by his contumacie : this was ever a custome in the church which was decreed in ancient synods , that who would not subject to the lawes of common discipline should bee put by his place . neither is the authority of men here to bee sought after , when as the spirit of god pronounces of such , cor. . . that the church hath no custome of contending . so that in all this discourse against a toleration , i have not written out of violence of spirit , cruelty , or ill will to the men , for i love and respect them , ( though for the present in an errour ) but from a zeale to the glory of god , and the good of this church for the preservation of purity of doctrine , holinesse of life and peace , ( which cannot stand with a toleration ) and though i be earnest in this cause , t is not from suddaine apprehension or passion , for i have had long thoughts of this church way , and i doe apprehend more evill in it , than men doe see at first , or than the independants can see , it being their owne cause , and they many wayes engaged in it : o that the independant ministers would with an impartiall desire of satisfaction , consider what hath beene written , and be perswaded to lay aside all thoughts of setting up separated assemblies , and come and grow into one body , joyning in one way with us ! for which end i will commend to them the councell of b calvin , given in a like case concerning a minister , who dissented from the the rest of his fellowes . let him remember amongst other things what paul requires in a pastor , this is not the last , that he ought not to be selfe willed , that is , addicted to his own proper judgement ; and certainely this is one of the chiefe vertues of a good pastor , so from the whole heart to feare contentions , that he may never dissent from his brethren , unlesse it be for causes greatly necessary . now considering what they may enjoy in this church ( as i have before shewed at large in the answers to the three reasons ) some circumstances about the manner and forme of discipline ( as the exercising of it independantly ) cannot be a cause greatly necessary , especially if we will beleeve calvin c who affirmes that the scriptures expresse the substance of ecclesiasticall discipline , but the forme of exercising it , because t is not prescribed by the lord , it ought to be ordered and appointed by the ministers for edification . please not your selves in your opinions , be not so addicted to your owne judgement ( for t is certaine saith calvin d that every mar who is addicted and wedded to his owne judgement , so soone as ever an occasion offers it selfe , will be a schismaticke : of which reade more in that place . and thus i have delivered my owne soule , hoping that either our brethren will withdraw their petitions so as they shall never be read in the honourable house of commons , or if they should , i hope the house will cast them out , for i am perswaded it shall never be sayd of this parliament in the ages to come , that they were the first that opened a dore for tolerations , and for setting up of churches against the church ; which if ever that dore should be opened ( which god of his mercy keepe shut ) i leave it to their great wisedomes to fore-see what infinite evils would in processe of time come upon this kingdome , and whether the succeeding generations would not write in their chronicles and histories ( as is written of naaman , king. . . now naaman was a great man with his master , and honourable , because by him the lord had given deliverance unto syria : he was also a mighty man in valour , but he was a leper ) such a parliament was great and honourable because by them the lord gave deliverance unto england , it was also a mighty parliament for executing justice , and for making such and such excellent lawes , but it granted a toleration ; whether this would not cast a darke shaddow upon their glorious light , and be as a dead flye in the oyntment of the apothecary ; i humbly submit to their judgement . but to conclude this discourse both against independancie , and against tolerations , the day is shortly comming will try all , and i rejoyce in the thoughts of it , in regard of the accounts i shall give about this controversie of separation , nothing doubting but in that great day ( christ of his rich grace pardoning the weaknesses that have , may , and doe cleave to me in the manner of managing it ) will owne my whole worke , and endeavours against that way of separation , as stirred up by his owne spirit , and followed all along by his spirit , enabling mee in it and to it above my owne strength ; and though i expect many censures and reproaches from that sort of men yet then i shall have prayse with god , and the reward of all my labour , for truth , love , peace , and holinesse , which i aime at in this and all other discourses about this controversie . finis . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a e- melch. adam . vita oecolamp . pag. . melch. adam vit bucer p. . melch. ad. vit tosan . pag. . melc . ad vita brent . pag . quid ? nonne vident dissidia nostra esse amicorum dispendia , hostium compendia , & publica irae divinae incendia . junius bi●enu . epist. land has . adeo vetera●●ie hic antiqu●s d●aco imprudentiae nostrae ne vit illudere . quisquis volens detrabir fama meae , iste nob●● addit mercedi meae . augustirus regium est male audire cum bene feceris . king. c. ult. v. . chron. . v. . king . v. . theod. hist. eccle. . l. . cap. . diruendi sunt etiam ipsi ciconiarum nidi ne redeant . lavat. in deurer . theod. heret . fab. lib. . de nest . a nestorius speaking against the personall union of the divine and humane nature of christ : extiches fell into an error contrary , confounding the natures , that he would have the humane nature so swallowed up by the immensitie of the divine nature in christ , that there was not two natures in christ , but one onely , to wit , the divine nature , evag. lib. . cap. . so ofiander broaching that error , that christ was our mediatour only according to the divine nature , stancarus opposing that fell into another error that christ was mediator only according to the humane schlussels de stancar . pag. . so flacius illyricus opposing strigelius who made originall sinne to be but a light kind of accident , he to aggravate the monstruousnesse of originall sinne , fell into that errour , that originall sinne was the substance of a man , schlussels de secta manic : pag. . * polypus petrae cui adhaesit colorem referens . nazianz : de se ipso . oreg . naz ad episcop. theod. lib. . haeret : fabul . parvus error in initio fit magnus in fine , negligenda non sunt parva initia , ex quibus paulatim majores fiunt accessiones . notes for div a e- zanch. in . . pr. p. . . calv. instit. lib. . c. . sect. . . rob. apol. ca. . . zanch. in . pr. . calv. lib. . c. . sect. . cameron dic eccle. . p. . robinson apol. c. . de presb. . eccles. p. . calv. instit. lib. . cap. . sect , . zanch. in . pr. , . p. ames . lib. . cap. . zanchius in . praecept . p. . amesius lib. pr. medul . cap. . question . zanch. in . pr. p. . quod peritiores igitur pertinet examinatio & qui plus habeant authoritatis . zanch in pr. p. . ames . lib. pr● . cap. . * cameron . non est credibile dominum nostrum jesum christum ( qui non est perturbationis & confusionis author sed ordinis ) voluisse judicia esse penes plebem , quae vel ob imperitiam rerum vel ob affectuū perturbationem accipere debet ; non dare leges , & judicium subire , non ferre . dic ecelesi pag. . see syons prerog. p. . robinsons catechisme . rob. apol. cap. . p. . manus of covent . sent from holland . examination of prelates petition , p . manus . of coven sent from holland . vide assert . of the church of scotland , p. , , . lib pr●med . theol. cap. . med. theolo . lib. . cap. . pag. . amesi . lib. pr. ca. . de discipl . eccl. notes for div a e- pareus in gal. . v. . . so calvin in gal . v. . . i intreat the independant men in the feare of god to read & consider what is more fully set down in those two verses by calvin and pareus . manus . of a●● treatise of the church . a liturgie imposed is popery saith the protestation protested . manus treatis . of a church . robins . apol. c. . vide ans. from new england to the . quest . sent by some lancashire ministers . rob. justific . . manus treatis . of a church . notes for div a e- if you may publiquely protest against such as you know should not be admitted , and declare against the churches faultinesse in not proceeding against them , you may communicate with them , because you have done all you can in this case . daven. determ. quest . . reb. catechis . ans. to . quest . reb. justific . pag. . manus . treat. of a church . i propound these things as being according to their principles , but not as mine . ames . lib. . de cons. cap. . de 〈◊〉 . and what ever liturgie or ceremonies or discipline are left to accompany this nationall church government , t is indifferent with us , so as we may enjoy our christian libertie in the true use of such ordinances , and of such independant government as christ the onely law-giver of his church , and lord of the conscience , hath left unto us in his word . rom. . . a cal. farel . epist. . quod si pervicaciter recusare institerit , denuncient sibi non esse loco fratris , qui communem disciplinam contumacia sua perturbet : semper hoc in ecclesia valuit , quod veteribus synodis suit decretum , ut qui subjici communis disciplinae legibus noluerit munere abdi●●●●●neque hic quaerenda est hominum authoritas , cum spiritus sanctus de talibus pronunciaverit , ecclesiam non habere morem contendendi , valere ergo ipsum jubeant , qui communis societatis jura respuit . b fratrem vero illum qui hactenus a vobis dissensit , obsecramus in domino ne ulterius pertinacia contendat ad repugnandum . meminerit inter alia , quae paulus in pastore requirit , hoc esse non postren {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , nesit {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , hoc est proprio judicio addictus . et cene haec una est ex praecipuis virtutibus boni pastoris , sic exhorrere toto pectore contentiones ut nunquam a fratribus nisi ob causas maxime necessarias , dissideat , cal. epi. . c substantiam ecclesiasticae disciplinae exprimit di sertis verbis scriptura : forma autem ejus exercendae , quoniam a domino praescript non est , a ministris constitui debet pro aedificatione , cal. epist. . d et certe omni , {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , simulac se occasio dederit , itarim ●et schismaticus . cai in tit. . v. . toleration not to be abused by the independents by a lover of truth and peace. fullwood, francis, d. . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; 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(eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) toleration not to be abused by the independents by a lover of truth and peace. fullwood, francis, d. . [ ], p. printed for john martyn and are to be sold by abisha brocas bookseller in exeter, london : . reproduction of original in the union theological seminary library, new york. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng religious tolerance -- church of england. dissenters, religious -- england. schism. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - aptara keyed and coded from proquest page images - john pas sampled and proofread - john pas text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion toleration not to be abused by the independents . by a lover of truth and peace . london , printed for john martyn , and are to be sold by abisha brocas , bookseller in exeter , . toleration not to be abused by the independents . the following discourse shall consist of four particulars . first , the lawfulness of communicating with our churches by the confessions and arguments of the congregational divines . . the same proved by demonstrating the apostolical churches more vitiated than ours , from whom a separation is made by the independents ; and yet a separation from those primitive churches , utterly discountenanced by the apostles . . the same proposition proved by demonstrating that we have not given them the like , or any just cause , as the church of rome gave them and us . which is the first particular to be proved . secondly , i shall shew the sinfulness of erecting altar against altar , of gathering churches out of churches . thirdly , that the independents are averse in their principles to toleration as well as the presbyterians , and so equally obliged not to abuse the present gracious indulgence . fourthly , i shall shew , that by his majesties late declaration the church of england is still established as the basis , and the bare suspension of the poenal laws , doth indeed take off the obligation , upon the account of wrath , that lay before upon dissenters ; but does not cancel the obligation of conscience , by which the independents , and all indulged parties , are still to avoid all causless and groundless separations from this best of reformed churches . first , the lawfulness of communicating with our churches , by the arguments and concessions even of the independents themselves . our parochial churches are owned to have the essentials of true churches by all sober congregational men : ( for there is the pure word of god preached , the true sacraments administred , and an implicite covenant between pastor and people in joyning together . ) all that is pleaded is corruption and defect in the outward exercise and administration of church order , and discipline . now that it is lawful ( supposing , but not granting this bar lies against the church of england ) to joyn with churches so defective and corrupt , is not only acknowledged , but fully proved by reverend mr. norton , of the congregational way in his answer to apolsius ( as dr. stilling fleet in his irenicum quotes it to the present purpose ) which i desire the brethren to consider , whom it chiefly concerns , and to lay seriously to their hearts : and , without a reply to his arguments , they cannot justifie their separation from us . . a believer may lawfully joyn in communion with such a church , where he cannot enjoy all the ordinancies of god , as in the jewish church , in our saviour's time , which refused the gospel of christ , and the baptisme of john , and yet our saviour commands us to hear the scribes and pharisees ( sitting in moses's chair ; ) which hearing implies conjunctionem ecclesiae judaicae , a joyning with the jewish church . so with churches rejecting an article of faith ; as the church of corinth , the doctrine of the resurrection ; the churches of galatia rejecting the doctrine of justification by faith : yet the apostle no where requires , on that account , a separation from them . . a believer may lawfully joyn in communion with such a church , in which some corruption is tolerated in the worship of god , without reformation ; as the offering upon high places , from solomon to hezekiah , in the church of judah ; the observation of circumcision and the law ceremonial in the churches of galatia . . a believer may lawfully joyn himself in communion with such a church , in which such are admitted to sacraments who give no evident signs of grace , but seem to be lovers of the world ; this he proves , because it is every mans duty to examine himself , and anothers sin hurts not me , and so is no argument against my duty . and besides , by mens coming unworthily , non polluitur communio , licet minuitur consolatio , the communion is not defiled , though the comfort of it be diminished : this he proves also from the church of corinth , amongst whom were many scandalous that had not repented , cor. . , &c. and in the church of the jews , which lay under great corruptions when christ and his apostles communicated with it . . although a believer joyns with such a church , he is not therefore bound with the guilt , nor defiled with the pollutions of others that communicate . it is his duty incumbent , and in doing his duty , he contracts no guilt upon himself . . a believer which hath joyned himself to such a church is not bound to withdraw and seperate under pain of guilt if he does it not : for to be lawful to joyn , and unlawful to continue the communion implies a contradiction ; for the first speaks it to be a church , and the second to be no church ; and so it is not lawful to seperate from a church true , as to essentials ( and such the independents own in their apologetical narration , our parochial churches ) though guilty of corruptions ; for the ground of communicating is its being a church , not a corrupt or defective church . and that men are not guilty by partaking with those that are guilty of corruptions in a church , appears from the church of the jews in the case of ely's sons , and the christian churches of asia and corinth ; where we read of many corruptions by s. paul reproved , but no mandate to separate , which had certainly by the holy ghost been given , and s. paul would not have omitted , had it been a sin to communicate while those corruptions were in the churches of asia and corinth . thus far their own reverend norton . now i desire these congregational leaders , who gather churches out of our churches , to reply to this learned divine of their own perswasion , or to consider what answer is to be given to the searcher of all hearts , for resisting that light of conviction that shines in upon their consciences . again , not granting but supposing only ; that in this church from which these separate , church-discipline were neglected , worship defiled , manners corrupted , or tyranny exercised : suppose we grant all this , which we need not , this will not justifie a separation from the church of england . my reason is , because there were greater corruptions in doctrine , discipline , and worship ( and no separations countenanced by the apostles ) in the first apostolical christian churches , then in ours , or any other reformed churches , from whom a separation is made in these times . as for instance ; to begin with doctrine ; in what church of ours is the resurrection of the dead denyed , an article of that importance that all our christianity , in effect , depends upon it ? it was denyed by many in the church of corinth . in what churches of ours is the doctrine of justification by the law , or any doctrine so destructive of the merit of christ , generally maintained , as in the galatian churches ? again , for worship ; do ours partake of the lord's table and the table of devils , as among the corinthians ? are our ecclesiastical assemblies so confused , that whosoever comes in must presently take us for mad ? do ours come to the communion drunk , as at corinth ? then for manners , and life ; we acknowledge our selves heynous offendors ( which , i suppose , those that call themselves the saints , and separate from us publicans ) do ( unless frantick ) confess true of themselves : but what then ? have we worse than incest , fornication , covetousness , malice , contentions unrepented of , as is the church of corinth ? or , biting and devouring one another , permitters of idolaters , boasters of gifts , as in the church of galatia ? as touching neglect of discipline ; first in the apostles own company , the ministers that should exercise discipline , they all sought there own , and none the things of j●sus christ ; and the grossest vices winked 〈…〉 mented , as we saw before in the church of corinth ; and should have been so still , had not the apostle been living , and exciting them to their duty . lastly , concerning tyranny ; ye see what oppression the false apostles used , cor. . . ye suffer , saith the apostle , if a man take of you , if a man bring you into bondage , if a man devour you , if a man exalt himself , &c. by which words he toucheth the tyranny , though out of malice against the apostle , willingly submitted to , by the church of corinth : and we know that dyotrephes exercised his government with such insolency , that he cast out whom he would , admitted whom he would , opposed s. john himself ; yet no news of separation . now let these men consider , that separate from us , the apostolical church was a virgin newly espoused to christ , in the midst of the heathen , under the rod of persecution , the great apostle then living , and yet vitiated more then the churches that these depart from ; and yet the then separatists branded with the characters of schisme and sedition by the blessed apostles . and here i desire the men of this way seriously to consider , that separation being discountenanced , from churches more vitiated than ours , by the holy apostles ; how these men , owning our parochial churches true as to essentials , can ever justifie their separation from us ? it would certainly be duly weighed by such as desire to appear tender consciences , and so capable of a right in the present gracious indulgence . that they do so acknowledge our parochial churches , their apologetical narration declares sufficiently in these following words ; we have alwaies profest ( and that in these times , wherein the churches of england were most , either actually overspread with defilements , or in the greatest danger thereof ) that we both did , and would hold communion with them , as true churches of christ ; and that our parochial churches were the very body of christ : which is in effect to approve and forsake at the same time , and gives occasion , too great , of applying a sentence in s. austin against parmenian ( lib. . cap. . against these dissenters : ) et adversum nos loquuntur , & nobiscum loquuntur , & cum eos obmutescere compellat veritas , silere non permittit iniquitas : they speak against us , and they speak for us ; and when truth constrains them silence , their iniquity will not let them hold their peace . there are three things that i would humbly offer to all sober men of the congregational perswasion ; and i beseech them to consider them seriously , as from one that equally wisheth their salvation with his own . . that they would cautiously distinguish between corruptions in doctrine , and corruptions in the practice of a church . . that they would conscientiously distinguish between corruptions , whether in doctrine or practice , profest and avowed by a church , and required as the absolute conditions of communion from all its members ; and corruptions only crept in and meerly tolerated in a church , and not any way required as the conditions of . to distinguish carefully between non-communicating as to the abuses of a church , and a positive and total separation from a 〈◊〉 as it is a church . these three ( the second 〈…〉 duly weighed and considered , would 〈…〉 a period to their separation 〈…〉 of england ; or tend at least to 〈…〉 ening of the breach too sadly occasioned , for want of a due reflection upon the premisses aforesaid . again , we of the church of england have not given them the like , or any just cause of separating , as the church of rome gave them and us : for where do we urge any doctrines as articles of faith , which we offer not to a tryal by scripture , and the four first general councils , which all christians reverence ( and were anciently honoured next to the four gospels : ) and if the church should teach any other propositions , she protests against their being articles of faith and of necessity to salvation , and for this reason imposeth not her ●●●ix , articles , as articles of faith , but of peace and communion : nor does the church of england censure other churches for their different confessions , but allows them the liberty she her self takes , to establish more or less conditions of communion , as the governours of the church shall deem most expedient for vnity and peace . she only requires of such as are admitted to any office or employment in the church , to subscribe to her articles as certain theological verityes not repugnant to god's word , particularly culled out and selected to be taught , and maintained within her communion , as highly conducive to the preservation of truth , and prevention of schisme . and for this reason she passes no other censure upon the impugners of her articles , then against the impugners of her government , liturgy , and rites ; because all intended by her for the same end , the avoiding of all disorders , and confusions . but as for the absolute articles of the church of england , they were not of her own inventing , but such as she found established in the best ages of the church , nearest the primitive and apostolical simplicity : here she fixeth the bounds of her faith , to prevent the danger of endless additions , and innovations . and because in smaller matters somewhat may escape the greatest caution and prudence , she hath reserved just power to her self to reform what is really amiss , and finds so abused , that the use of them cannot stand with piety and holiness ; allowing the same liberty to all her sister churches , and all church governours within the sphere of their respective jurisdictions . this is the true state of the reformation of this church , as hath been apparently evidenced by her regular sons against all opposers . now let the independents consider , whether this be not ( though a brief ) yet a true account of the moderation and prudence of this church ; and then let them reflect at the same time upon the second especially , of the three aforesaid propositions : and upon the whole examine their tender consciences , whether it does not justifie our separation from the romanists , and at the same time prove them guilty by departing from us . we both agree , that where any church is guilty of corruptions in doctrine and practice , which it owns and requires as absolute conditions of her communion , there to separate is no schisme , but lawful and convenient . let them make the church of england appear thus guilty they are acquitted : if they cannot prove it as they have not done as yet ( and doubtless they have zeal enough to set them forward , if it could be demonstrated ) what hinders their return to the church of england , unless the conscience , which they call tender , be sullen and obstinate ? not to prove any thing that justifies a separation against the church which they forsake , and yet continue to keep up their altars against it , is not so much allyed to tenderness of conscience , as to hardness of heart , uncapable of being reclaimed by the greatest and most generous condescensions in the world. so much of the first particular , the lawfulness of communicating with our parochial churches , from the arguments and concessions of the independents themselves ; from the primitive apostolical churches more vitiated than ours , and yet all manner of separation discountenanced by the apostles , and we not having given the independents any just cause as the church of rome gave them and us . that is the first proposition i engaged to defend , the lawfulness of communicating with our churches . secondly , i am to shew the sinfulness and danger of erecting altar against altar , and gathering churches out of our churches : the sin is the sin of schisme , severely branded by ancient fathers and orthodox councils ( as well as in the apostolical writings ) as the heighth of pride and wickedness . that the independents are guilty of this sin is clearly deducible from what i have said already ; from their own arguments , and concessions ; from the instances of the apostolical and primitive churches , more vitiated than ours , yet separation discountenanced by the apostles ; and by a comparison between our withdrawing from rome , and their separation from us . these things already proved , speaks them causlesly to separate from us ; and that causless separation speaks them schismaticks . they themselves allow our parochial churches true , as to essentials ; and , what if we suppose spots and pollutions , as to the outward administration of order and discipline ; this , if we should grant them , onely infers a lawful desire and endeavour of reformation , but it warrants no schismatical separation ; for no corruptions in a church can give occasion , or allowance of going out of it , but such as strike at the foundation of christian doctrine and worship ; which , setting calumny and railing aside ( which we are not obliged to take for reason and argument ) they never yet attempted to prove against the church of england , so far they are inexcusable before god , and so far from appearing men of tender consciences to the world. where are those corruptions in doctrine or practice , which the church of england doth impose upon her members , as the absolute conditions of her communion . let them lay aside wrath and darkness , and give us a pregnant demonstration ; or like men of candour and ingenuity plead guilty , and return . let them in short prove these two things : . that our episcopal ordination and jurisdiction , our mixt communion , our rites of order imposed , not out of any necessity , but vniformity and peace , and some other things by them inveighed against , to be indeed superstitious , and ( as they call them ) . antichristian abominations . when that difficult task is over ( if it can be ever accomplished ) let them prove that we urge disputable things , or known errours with such severity , as the church of rome does purgatory , indulgences , supererogation , and other notorious palbable errours ; for which , justly condemned by the reformed churches . the very cock of the congregation is here nonplust ( the most daring of all their vndertakers ) unless you will take noise , and clamour , and confidence for demonstrations . thirdly , the independents are equally enemies to toleration with the presbyterians ; and from the same very principles , and by consequence equally obliged not to use ( however not to abuse ) the gracious indulgence . nothing in conjunction with , or addition to , what is prescribed in the word of god ( as to worship , and government ) is to be admitted or tolerated . upon this principle the independents in particular ( as well as non-conformists in general , ) for so their greatest and most forward champion tells us , they do , and will adhere to , and stand upon as to the differences , between them and us . the plain meaning of which , applyed to the church of england , is briefly this , that the independent way of worship , and government , is only prescribed in the word of god ; and ours not , but repugnant : and by this principle they exclude as well their brethren that lent them the principle , as well as the inferiour sectarists , and are at defiance with them , as well as the church of england ; for independency being only prescribed in the word by this principle . if they will adhere to it , no other way can be indulged or admitted . with these men ( as well as the disciplinarians ) there is but one only true way of worship and government prescribed in the word . nothing , secondly , that is unlawful may be tolerated by the civil magistrate ; and , nothing is lawful but what is prescribed in the word ( and you may be confident , that is the independent way of worship and government . ) these three things resolved , whence should toleration proceed , or an indulgence be expected from the independents to differing perswasions , unless he playes fast and loose , and as he pleaseth , owns and renounceth the jus divinum of independency in the same oracles . every sect ( the independent especially ) allows no worship , but their own way established in the word . this is not only pleaded against the church of england , but every faction bandyes against every faction for the divine right . the presbyterian discipline is the only scepter of jesvs christ for all churches government to the end of the world : he can neither indulge himself , nor accept an indulgence where other parties are not excluded . the independent allows only his own way of worship , and excludes all dissenters from worshipping god aright ; and from the beauty and purity of gospel ordinances ; which is a principle sir john presbyter lent him : and how can an indulgence hence proceed ? by this principle the presbyterian first assaulted the church of england . by the same principle the congregational hector takes sir john to task , and beats him out of the field : by the same the anabaptist attempted the independent ; and all the under - sects the anabaptists : and so if they had crumbled into a thousand sub-divisions , still as every sect gathers strength enough , he persecutes all opposers . and , how should the independent be more merciful than the presbyterian , or any other sect , whose enmity to toleration doth equally arise from the same common principle of the divine right , only of their own way of worship and government , from which all the sects are excluded , as well as the church of england ? there is one only way of worshipping god aright , and that way is the independent way of worship . where is toleration then ? it is excluded . by what law ? by divine right : and so every plant that my father hath not planted must be rooted out ; and so only independency is to be tolerated , unless kings and princes who rule for god , may indulge men in an open violation of the law of god ? and if you look a little backwards , it may admit a dispute , whether the scepter of jesus christ were more an iron rod under the kirk , or the tender hearted tryers ? it may indeed sometimes consist with carnal prudence ( supposing the independents to have power in their hands ) to connive at , and indulge the lesser factions , the better to hold out the flag of defiance against the royalists , and the presbyterians their most considerable competitors . or they may ( as the vsurpers tender-conscien'd army once did ) offer the taking away even the poenal laws from the very papists , to collogue with forraign princes , and so have the greater security in their villanous designs against the king , and the church ; but this is a state juggle for the advancement of the good old cause : but then as soon as the fear is over from abroad , then they spared nothing that sacriledge could devour . and now , can any man , that looks back upon independent mercy and forbearance , believe that men of such principles and practices ( who are now pleased that episcopacy is established , and poenal laws removed from papists , only because indulged themselves ) would tolerate either popery or episcopacy if they had power in their hands , and not rather lord it with the insolence of vsurpers ? credat judaeus apella , non ego . so that as a late treatise demonstrates , the presbyterian hath no cause of joy , because others are indulged as well as himself ; whereas his doctors , elders , and deacons are the perpetual scepter of christ to the end of the world for all churches government ; and therefore , down with the colours of the dragon ; advance the standard of christ . the independents have no cause of joy , because the church of england , and the presbyterian limb too , of the antichristian leviathan , are included , as well as the rest of the parties among us : his way being only laid down in the word , and all others repugnant to the holy scriptures . yet they take the advantage , both out of a hatred to a third party , the church of england , and the next thing is to fight one with another for the government : and then the only scepter of christ is the conquerours worship ; the longest sword is the divine right ; the pike and gun declare the cause of god ; and infallible artillery decides all the controversies relating to the gospel truth . and thus the presbyterian ( who thought to have erected his discipline upon the sad eclipse of the church of england ) was powerfully baffled and confuted , by such arguments as the independent man of war carryed in his snapsack . do not the independents , when most cool and moderate , look upon all other churches and people , as all revolters from the purity and beauty of gospel-ordinances , introducers of will-worship and superstition , instead of disciples of the lord jesvs ; not allowing any dissenters the least share or degree of wisdom , or godliness ? and men of such principles of this forehead and complexion , must needs carry tender bowels to men of differing perswasions . certainly , unless where the rules and maximes of carnal policy interpose and plead for mercy to dissenters , their clemency is the same with the presbyterian , who first lent him the principle , of not admitting any thing not expresly delivered in the sacred scriptures : by which principle they are engaged in a war with one another , as well as against their common antagonists . so that the tables are now turned . it is not the question , whether all partyes may be tolerated ; but , whether independents only : for there is but one true way of worship , and that is theirs . theirs only hath the divinum jus , and princes may not indulge men in an open violation of scripture precepts , and directions . and so every sect is engaged to root out all the rest , as enemies to the scepter of the lord jesvs . fourthly , the execution of the poenal laws being suspended , by the late declaration in favour of dissenters , does only take off the obligation , upon the account of wrath , to obedience ; but the conscience is still obliged , to avoid all causless and groundless separations from our churches . this will be manifest enough to any one that seriously reads the declaration it self , and a late treatise , toleration not to be abused , which will extend as well to the independents as the presbyterians , whose aversion to toleration is built upon the same common principle , the divine right of their one onely way of worship and government , in the sacred oracles ; and so i refer them to that part of the discourse before mentioned , that they are obliged ( as before the declaration ) to avoid all groundless separations . for the church of england is , as before , established as the basis , and so the obligation of conscience still obligatory upon all the indulged parties to avoid schismes , and all causless departure from us . the obligation upon the account of wrath is removed indeed ; but if they would appear tender consciences to the world , the king's suspension of the punishment should make them the more obedient for conscience sake ; and a gracious indulgence rather abate , than heighten their opposition against the church of england , still established . i shall now conclude all , by desiring them to consider , what they themselves acknowledge in the declaration of the faith and order of the congregational churches , in chap. . of the church , &c. the purest churches under heaven are subject both to mixture and error . and in their institution of churches ; persons that are joyned in church-fellowship , ought not lightly to withdraw themselves from the communion of the church , to which they are so joyned . to these two let them add the four particulars in this discourse mentioned : and upon the result of all consider , whether ambition and pride , rather then a conscientious tenderness keep not up their departure from , and opposition to the church of england . i am not as this publican , come not near me , for i am holier then thou . an over-valluing of our own worth , and a pharisaical contempt of others , is the usual rise of schisme ; for only by pride cometh contention ; so the best of kings and preachers . thus the valentinians looked on themselves as the only spiritual men. the pharisees the only separati , separate persons . the sadducees , justi , the only righteous . the novatians , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the only puritans : and none men of knowledge but the gnosticks , and the acute tertullian , when montanist . all others were psysici , and he was come to his nos spirituales . and if ( out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh ) spiritual pride is the original of your schisme . for you only are god's israel , his elect and precious ones . you only have communion with god in pure ordinance ▪ all the world faln short of god's truth , but your selves : and none is orthodox out of the pale of your own church . not only pap●sts , prelatists and arminians , but even your dear brethren , the presbyterians , are limbs of the antichristian leviathan . all revolted from the lord jesus , and to be treated as members of the whore , whom the saints hate , and shall make desolate and naked , eat her flesh , and drink her bloud . this is the canting dialect of your independent leaders . to conclude . if it be not ambition , but conscience ; let it so appear by your charity to dissenters , by a serious and impartial enquiry into the grounds upon which you separate from us , without prejudice or passion ; and do not so far idolize a sect , or an opinion , as to prefer it before the peace and settlement of a church , and nation . finis . one project for the good of england that is, our civil union is our civil safety : humbly dedicated to the great council, the parliament of england. penn, william, - . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing p estc r ocm this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) one project for the good of england that is, our civil union is our civil safety : humbly dedicated to the great council, the parliament of england. penn, william, - . p. s.n., [london : ?] caption title. imprint suggested by wing. signed at end: "phil'anglus" which is a pseudonym for william penn. reproduction of original in the huntington library. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng catholic church -- controversial literature. religious tolerance -- england. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - spi global keyed and coded from proquest page images - taryn hakala sampled and proofread - taryn hakala text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion one project for the good of england : that is , our civil union is our civil safety . humbly dedicated to the great council , the parliament of england . religion , as it is the noblest end of man's life , so it were the best bond of humane society , provided men did not err in the meaning of that excellent word . scripture interprets it to be loving god above all , and our neighbours as our selves ; but practice teacheth us , that too many meerly resolve it into opinion and form ; in which , not the text , but the comment too often prevails : whence it comes to pass that those bodies of men , who have but one common civil interest , are miserably distramed in favour of their adopted notions , upon whom they are impatient to bestow an earthly crown . and this is the reason of that mischief and uncertainty that attend government , no sooner one opinion prevails upon another ( though all hold the text to be sacred ) but humane society is shaken , and the civil government must receive and suffer a revolution : in so much , that when we consider the fury and unnaturalness of some people for religion ( which shews they have none that 's true ( religion making men most natural as well as divine ) we have reason to bewail the mis-understanding as well as mis-living of that venerable word . but since 't is so hard to disabuse men of their wrong apprehensions of religion , and the true nature and life of it , and consequently as yet too early in the day to fix such a religion upon which mankind will readily agree as a common basis for civil society , we must recur to some lower but true principle for the present , and i think there will be no difficulty of succeeding . 't is this , that civil interest is the foundation and end of civil government , and where it is not maintained entire the government must needs decline . the word interest has a good and bad acceptation ; when it is taken in an ill sense , it signifies a pursuit of advantage without regard to truth or justice ; which i mean not : the good signification of the word , and which i mean , is a legal endeavour to keep rights , or augment honest profits , whether it be in a private person or a society . by government , i understand a just and equal constitution , where might is not right , but laws rule , and not the wills or power of men ; for that were plain tyranny . this goverment must have a supream authority in it self to determine , and not to be superceeded or controuled by any other power , for then it would not be a government , but a subjection , which is a plain contradiction . having thus explain'd the terms of the principle i have laid down , i repeat it , viz. that civil interest is the foundation and end of civil government , and prove it thus , the good of the whole is the rise and end of government , but the good of the whole must needs be the interest of the whole , and consequently the interest of the whole is the reason and end of government . none can stumble at the word good , for every man may easily and safely interpret that to himself , since he must needs believe ; 't is good for him to be preserv'd in an undisturb'd possession of his civil rights , according to the free and just laws of the land , and the construction he makes for himself will serve his neighbour , and so the whole society . but as the good of the people is properly the civil interest of the people , and that , the reason and end of government ; so is the maintenance of that civil interest entire , the preservation of government . for where people are sure of their own , and are protected from violence or injury , they chearfully yield their obedience , and pay their contribution to the support of that government . but on the contrary , where men are insecure of their civil rights , nay , where they are daily violated , and themselves in danger of ruin , and that for no sin committed aginst the nature of civil interest ( to preserve which , government was instituted ) we ought to suppose their affections will flagg , that they will grow dead-hearted , and that what they pay or do , may go against the grain : and to say true , such unkindness is ready to tempt them to believe they should not of right contribute to the maintenance of such governments as yield them no security or civil protection . which unhappy flaw in the civil interest , proves an untoward crack in the government ; men not being cordially devoted to the prosperity of that government , that is exercis'd in their destruction ; and how far that fraction upon the common interest of the people may affect the government i cannot tell , but to be sure 't is insecure to any government , to have the people ( its strength ) divided , as they will be , where their interest is so disjoynted by the government ; one protected , the other expos'd . wherefore , wise governments have ever taken care to preserve their people , as knowing they do thereby preserve their interest , and that how numerous their people , so large their interest . for not only solomon has told us , that the honour of a prince is in the multitude of his people , but experience teaches , that plenty of people is the riches and strength of a wise and good government ; as that is , where vice is corrected and vertue encourag'd , and all taken in and secured in civils , that have the same civil interest with the government . but as the good and interest of the whole is the rise and end of government , so must it suppose , that the whole ( which takes in all parties ) concurs in seeking the good of the government ; for the reason of the government will not suffer it to protect those that are enemies to its constitution and safety ; for so it would admit of something dangerous to the society , for the security of which , government was at first instituted . it will follow , that those that own another temporal power superior to the government they properly belong to , make themselves subjects not of the government they are born under , but to that authority which they avow to be superior to the government of their own country , and consequently men of another interest , because 't is their interest to pursue the advantages of that power they acknowledge to be soveraign : but those that own , embrace and obey the government of their own country as their temporal supream authority , and whose interest is one and the same with that of their own proper government , ought to be valued and protected by that government . the principle thus far lyes general , i will now bring it to our own case . england is a country populous and protestant , and though under some dissents within it self , yet the civil interest is the same , and in some sense the religious too . for first , all english protestants , whether conformists or nonconformists agree in this , that they only owe allegiance and subjection unto the civil government of england , and offer any security in their power to give of their truth in this matter . and in the next place , they do not only consequentially disclaim the pope's supremacy , and all adhesion to forreign authority under any pretence , but therewith deny and oppose the romish religion , as it stands degenerated from scripture , and the first and purest ages of the church , which makes up a great negative union . and it cannot be unknown to men read in the reasons of the reformation , that a protestation made by the german reformers against the imperial edicts of charles the fifth , imposing romish traditions , gave beginning to the word protestant . in short ; it is the interest of the ruling or church ▪ protestants of england , that the pope should have no claim or power in england . it is also the interest of the dissenting protestants , that the pope should have no claim or power here in england , because they are subject to the same mischiefs and sufferings in their civil and religious rights that the church protestants are liable to : if then both are like to lose by pope and forraign authority , their interest must needs be one against pope and forraign authority ; and if they have but one interest , it will follow , that the church protestant cannot prejudice the dissenting-protestant , but he must weaken and destroy his own interest . the civil interest of english protestants being thus the same , and their religious interest too , so far as concerns a negative to the usurpation and error of rome ; i do humbly ask , if it be the interest of the government , to expose those to misery that have no other civil interest than that of the government ? or if it be just or equal that the weaker should be prosecuted by the more powerful protestants , whose interest is positively the same in civils , and in religion negatively ? one would think 't were reasonable that they should not suffer by protestants , who if popery ever have a day , are likely to suffer with them , and that upon the same principles . experience tells us , that the wisest architects lay their foundations broad and strong , and raise their squares and structure by the most exact rules of art , that the fabrick may be secure against the violence of storms ; but if people must be destroy'd by those of the same interest , truly that interest will stand but totteringly , and every breath of opposition will be ready to shake it . 't was the inconfutable answer christ made to the blasphemers of that power by which he wrought miracles ; a kingdom divided against it self cannot stand : what he said then , let me on another occasion say now , an interest divided against it self must fall . i know some men will take fire at this , and by crying the church , the church , hope to silence all arguments of this nature ; but they must excuse me , if i pay no manner of regard to their zeal , and hold their devotion both ignorant and dangerous at this time . it is not the way to fill the church , to destroy the people . a church without people is a contradiction , especially when the scripture tells us that 't is the people that makes the church . and 't is not without an appearance of reason that some good & wise men are apprehensive , that the greatest sticklers for persecuting protestant dissenters in favour of the church of england , are men addicted and devoted to the church of rome , or at least animated by such as are ; who , disparing of doing any great feats , if known , hide themselves under these pretences ; but the meaning of it is to debilitate the protestant cause in general , by exciting the church of england to destroy all other protestant interests in these kingdoms , that so nothing may remain for popery to conflict with but the few zealous abettors of that church . and that this may not look disingenuous , or like a trick of mine , i will enforce it by a demonstration . it is plain fact , that the church of rome hath ever since the reformation practic'd the restoration of her religion and power in these kingdoms . it is as evident that religion is with her a word for civil interest , that is , that she may have the rule over men both body and soul. for 't is government she aims at , to have the rains of power in her hand , to give law and weild the scepter . to do this she must either have a greater interest then the protestants that are now in possession , or else divide their interest , and so weaken them by themselves , and make them instruments to her ends . that her own force is inconsiderable is clear : she has nothing within doors to give her hope but the discord of protestants . it follows then that she must of necessity bestir her self and use her arts to enflame the reckoning among protestants , and carry their dissents about religious matters to a division in the civil interest . and it is the more to be fear'd , because whatever she has been to others , she has been ever true to her self . if this then be the only domestick expedient left her , we are sure she will use it ; and if so , it must needs be of great importance with all protestants to let fall their private animosities , and take all possible care that their dissents about faith or worship ( which regard the other world ) divide not their affection and judgment about the common and civil interest of their country : because if that be kept entire , it equally frustrates the designs of rome , as if you were of one religion . for since , as i said before , religion , with the great men of that church , is nothing else but a softer word for civil empire , preserve you but your civil interest from fraction , and you are in that sense of one religion too ; and that such an one , as you need not fear the temptation of smithfield , if you will but be true to it . this being the case , i would take leave to ask the zealous gentlemen of the english church , if conformity to the fashion of their worship be dearer to them then englands interest and the cause of protestancy ? if their love to church-government be greater then to the church and her religion , and to their country and her laws ? or lastly , whether in case they are sincere in their allegations for the church ( which i confess ingenuously i am apt to suspect ) it is to be supposed that the present church-men ( conformists i mean ) are better able of themselves to secure protestancy and our civil interest against the attempts of rome , then in conjunction with the civil interest of all protestant dissenters ? if they say yes , i would have them at the same time , for the same reason , to give it under their hands , that 't is a standing rule in arithmetick , that one is more then six , and that hitherto we have been all mistaken in the art of numbers . being brought to this pinch , i conceive they must say , that they had rather deliver up their church to the power and designs of popery , then suffer dissenters to live freely among them , though protestant , of one negative religion , and of the same civil interest ; or else hasten to break those bonds that are laid upon dissenters of truly tender and ( by experience ) of peaceable consciences ; and by law establish the free exercise of their worship to almighty god , that the fears , jealousies , disaffection and distraction , that now affect the one common interest of protestants , may be removed ; for it seems impossible to preserve a distinct interest from both . but to which of these they may incline ▪ i must not determine ; and yet i hope , they will not be of the mind of a late monk of cullen , that in his publick exercise exhorted the civil magistrates to chuse to have their city poor and catholick , that is popish , rather then great and opulent by the admission of trading hereticks ; but if they should , may our magistrates have at least their prudence ; for the culleners gave him the hearing , but were as true to their interest , as the monk to his superstition . under favour , the civil government is greatly concern'd to discountenance such biggotrys ; for it thins the people , lessens trade , creates jealousies , and endangers the peace and wealth of the whole . and with submission , of what should the civil magistrate be more tender , than in suffering the civil interest of a great people to be disturb'd and narrow'd for the humor of any one party of them ? for since the civil interest lies as large , as the people of that interest , the people must be preserved in order to preserve that common interest . other notions ever did divide and weaken empire , and in the end they have rarely mist to pull the old house about their ears , that have govern'd themselves by such disproportionable measures : by all means , interest the affections of the people in the prosperity of the government , by making the government a security to their perticular rights and properties . i ask , if more custom comes not to the king , and more trade to the kingdom by encouraging the labour and traffick of an episcopalian , presbyterian , independent , quaker and anabaptist , than by an episcopalian only ? if this be true , why should the rest be render'd uncapable of trade , yea , of living ? what schism or heresy is there in the labour and commerce of the anabaptist , quaker , independent and presbyterian , more than in the labour and traffick of the episcopalian ? i beseech you give me leave , is ther● ever a church-man in england ▪ that in distress would refuse the curtesie of one of these dissenters ? if one of them should happen to fall into a pond or ditch , would he deny to be helpt out by a dissenters hand ? is it to be supposed , he would in such a pickle be stomachful , and chuse to lie there , and be smother'd or drowned , rather than owe aid to the good will of a poor phanatick ? or if his house were on fire , may we think that he would have it rather burnt to the ground than acknowledge its preservation to a non-conformist ? would not the act be orthodox , whatever were the man ? so in case of being sick , imprison'd , beset , benighted , out of the way , far from kindred or acquaintance , with an hundred other cases that may happen daily , can we think , that such men would ask questions for conscience sake , or charge schism upon the relief given them ? no , no ; self will always be true to its interest , let superstition mutter what it will. but since the industry , rents and taxes of the dissenters are as currant as their neighbours , who loses by such narrowness more than england , than the government and the magistracy ? for till it be the interest of the farmer to destroy his flock , to starve the horse he rides , and the cow that gives him milk , it cannot be the interest of england to let a great part of her sober & useful inhabitants be destroy'd about things that concern another world. and 't is to be hop'd that the wisdom and charity of our governors will better guide them both to their own real interest and their peoples preservation , which are inseparable ; that so they may not starve them for religion , that are as willing as able to work for the good of king and country . i beseech you , let nature speak , who is so much a better friend to humane society , than false or froward opinion , that she often rectifies the mistakes of a prejudiced education , that we may say , how kind , how gentle , how helpful does she teach us to be to each other , till that make-bate opinion ( falsly call'd religion ) begins the jangle and foments to hatred . all the productions of nature are by love , and shall religion propagate by force ? if we consider the poor hen , she will teach us humanity . nature does not only learn her to hatch , but to be tender over her feeble chickens , that they may not be a prey to the kite . all the seeds and plants that grow for the use and nourishment of man , are produced by the kind and warm influences of the sun. nothing but kindness keeps up humane race : men and women don't get children in spight , but affection . 't is wonderful to think by what friendly and gentle ways nature produce , and matures the creatures of the world : and that religion should teach us to be froward and cruel , is lamentable : this were to make her the enemy instead of the restorer of nature . but i think , we may without offence say , that since true religion gives men greater mildness and goodness than they had before , that religion which teaches them less , must needs be false . what shall we say then , but that even nature is a truer guide to peace , and better informs us to preserve civil interest , then false religion , and consequently , that we ought to be true to the natural and just principles of society , and not suffer one of them to be violated for humor or opinion . nor is every difference in opinion to be reputed or nick named a new or different religion . let us go together as far as our way lies , and preserve our unity in those principles , which maintain our civil society . this is our common and our just interest , all protestant-dissenters agree in this , and it is both wise and righteous to admit no fraction upon this pact , no violence upon this concord . for the consequence of permitting any thing to break in upon the principles of humane society , that is forreign to the nature of it , will distract and weaken that society . we know , that in all plantations the wisdom of planters is well aware of this : and let us but consider , that the same ways that plant countries , must be kept to for preserving the plantation , else 't will quickly be depopulated . that country which is false to its first principles of government , and mistakes or divides its common and popular interest , must unavoidably decay . and let me say , that had there been this freedom granted eighteen years ago , protestancy had been too potent for the enemies of it ; nor had there been those divisions for popery to make its advantage by ; at least , not in the civil interest of the nation . and where that has been preserv'd entire , it has been never able to prevail : witness the careful government of holland , where the preservation of their civil interest from fraction hath secur'd them against the growth of popery , though it be almost tolerated by them : so powerful are the effects of an united civil interest in government . now because the civil interest of this nation is the preservation of the free and legal government of it from all subjection to forreign claim , and that the several sorts of protestants are united , as in the common protestancy ( that is , a general renunciation of rome ) so in the maintenance of this civil government as a common security ( for it strikes both at their rights civil and sacred , their conscience , religion and law to admit any forreign jurisdiction here ) it must follow , that had these several , as well english as protestant parties been timely encourag'd to this united civil interest , they had secur'd the government from this danger by rendering it too formidable for the attempt . but there is a twofold mistake that i think fit to remove . first , that the difference betwixt protestants & their dissenters is generally manag'd , as if it were civil . secondly , the difference betwixt papist & protestant is carried on , as if it were chiefly religious . to the first , i say , 't is plausible , but false , it is an artifice of ill men to enflame the government against good people , to make base ends by other mens ruin ; whereas they that dissent , are at a ne plus ultra on the behalf of the english government , as well as themselves . they neither acknowledge nor submit to any other authority . they hold the one common civil head , and not only acquiess in the distribution of justice by law ; but embrace it as the best part of their patrimony . so that the difference between protestants and their dissenters is purely religious , and mostly about church-government , and some forms of worship , apprehended to be not so pure and apostolical as could be desired ; and here it is , that tenderness should be exercis'd , if in any case in the world , or st. paul is mistaken . but as to the second , under correction , the case is alter'd , for though it be mostly manag'd on the side of religion , the great point is meerly civil , and sh●uld never be otherwise admitted or understood . for want of this caution protestants suffer themselves to be drawn into tedious controversies about religion , and give occasion to the professors and favourers of that way to exclaim against them , as persecutors for religion , who had reprobated such severity in the papists to their ancestors ( a most plausible and very often a succesful plea ) when in reality the difference is not so much religious as civil . not but that there is a vast contrariety in doctrine and worship too ; but this barely should not be the cause of our so great distance , and that provision the laws make against them ; but rather that fundamental inconsistancy they carry with them to the security of the english government and constitution , unto which they belong , by acknowledging a forreign jurisdiction in these kingdoms . so that drawing into question and danger the constitution and government , to which scripture , and nature and civil pact oblige their fidelity and obedience , there seems a discharge upon the civil government from any further care of their protection , that make it a piece of conscience to seek its ruin , and which is worse , a principle , not to be informed of better things , for even here not reason or law , but the pope must be judge . this being the brief and modest state of the case , i must return to my first great principle , that civil interest is the foundation and end of civil government : and that how much men desert the interest of a kingdom , so much they wound and subvert the government of it . i appeal to all wise and considerate men of the truth of this by the present posture of affairs and their proper causes . to come then to our point , shall english men by english men , and protestants by protestants be free or opprest ? that is , whether shall we receive as english men and protestants , those that have no other civil interest than that which is purely english , and who sincerely profess and embrace the same protestation , for which the antient reformers were stiled protestants , or for the sake of humour or base ends disown them , and expose them and their families to utter misery ? i would hope better of our great church-mens charity and prudence ; but if they should be so unhappy as to keep to their old measures , and still play the gawdy but empty name of church against the civil interest and religion of the nation , they will shew themselves deserted of god , and then how long it will be , before they will be seen and left of all sober men , let them judge . for to speak freely , after all this light that is now in the world , no ignorance can excuse such zeal , nor will wise men believe it to be either , but a trick to weaken protestancy , that her declared enemy may with less hazard gain the chair . and there is not so much reason to fear profest roman catholicks , as those gentlemen , who valuing themselves by their respects to the church and tenderness of her independent honour , have the opportunity with less suspition of letting in popery at the back door . these are the men that pay off the phanatick in the name of the church , but for the good of the pope , to whose account those endeavours must be placed . but it will go a great way to our deliverance if we are not careless to observe the secret workings of those that have vow'd our misery , & of them such , as are in masckarade , and wear the guize of friends are most dangerous : but some men are pur-blind , they can see danger as near as their nose , but in a difficulty , that is not a foot from them , they are presumptive , rusty and not to be govern'd , could some church-men but see the irreparable mischiefs that will attend them ( if sincere to their present profession ) unless prevented by a modest and christian condescension to dissenting protestant christians , they would never suffer themselves to be mis●guided by stiff and rigid principles at this time of day . if christianity , that most meek and self denying religion , cannot prevail upon them , me thinks the power of interest , and that self interest too , should have some success for in those cases they use not to be obstinate . but i expect it should be told me , that this is the way to ruin the church , and let in an anarchy in religion : cujus contrarium verum . i am glad to obviate this , before i leave you , seeing the contrary is most true ; for it leaves the church and church-men as they are , with this distinction , that whereas now conformity is coercive , which is popish , it will be then perswasive , which is christian . and there may be some hopes , when the parsons , destitute of the magistrates sword , shall of necessity enforce their religion by good doctrine and holy living ; nor ought they to murmur , for that which satisfied christ and his apostles should satisfie them : his kingdom is not of this world , therefore they should not fight for him , if they would be his servants and the children of his kingdom , christ and not civil force is the rock his church is built upon . nor indeed has any thing so tarnisht the cause of protestancy , as the professors of it betaking themselves to worldly arms to propagate their religion . david could not wear saul's armor , and true protestants cannot use popish weapons , imposition and persecution . in short ; 't is the very interest of the church of england , to preserve the civil interest entire , or else popery will endanger all ; but that cannot be unless all of that civil interest be preserved ; therefore protestaat dissenters should be indulg'd . but some will say , there is a difference even among dissenters ; some will give a security to the civil government by taking the oaths ; others will not , and be it through tenderness , how do we know , but papists will shrow'd themselves under the wings of such dissenters , and so in tolerating protestant dissenters to fortify protestancy , in reality popery will be hereby shelter'd incognito . i answer , first , that such oaths are little or no security to any government , and though it may give some allay to the jealousie of governors , they never had the effect desired . for neither in private cases ▪ nor yet in publick transactions have men adher'd to their oaths , but their interest . he that is a knave , was never made honest by an oath : nor is it an oath , but honesty , that keeps honest men su●h . read story and consult our modern times , tell me what government stood the firmer or longer for them ? men may take them for their own advantage , or to avoid loss and punishment : but the question is , what real benefit , or security comes thereby to the government ? it is certain they have often ensnared a good man , but never caught one knave yet : we ought not to put so great a value upon oaths , as to render the security of our government so low and hazardous . god's providence and the wisdom of our ancestors have found out a better test for us to rest upon , and that is our common interest and the laws of the land duly executed : these are the security of our government . for example , a man swears he will not plot , yet plots ; pray what security is this oath to the government ? but though 't is evident , that this be no security ; that law which hangs him for plotting , is an unquestionable one . so that 't is not for wise governours , by swearing men to the government to think to secure it ; but all having agreed to the laws , by which they are to be governed , let any man break them at his peril . wherefore good laws , and a just execution of them , and not oaths , are the natural and real security of a government . but next , though some may scruple the oaths , 't is not for the sake of the matter so much as form , which you know is not the case of roman catholicks ( pray distinguish ) and those very persons , whoever they be of protestant-dissenters , i dare say , they will very cheerfully promise their allegiance on the same penalties , and subscribe any renunciation of pope and forraign authority , which the art of man can pen ; nor should it be hard for you to believe they should subscribe what they have alwayes liv'd . to that part of the objection , which mentions the danger of papists concealing themselves under the character of protestant dissenters ; under favour i say , it is most reasonable to believe , that those who will deny their faith upon record , as those that subscribe your declaration do , will swallow the oaths too ; for the declaration flatly denys the religion , but the oaths only the pope's supremacy , which even some of themselves pretend to reject . therefore those that can sincerely subscribe the declaration , cannot be papists . if it be yet objected , that papists may have dispensations to subscribe the test , or a pardon , when they have done it ; i answer , they may as well have dispensations to take the oaths or pardons when they have taken them , and these last six moneths prove as much . there is no fence against this flail : at this rate they may as well be protestants , as protestant ▪ dissenters , ministers or bishops in churches , as speakers or preachers in meeting-houses : nay , 't is more probable , where there is least suffering , and most preferment . but this objection only shews the weakness of both oaths and declaration for the purpose intended , and not , that they can hide themselves more under one people then another . for they that can have a dispensation or pardon for one act , can have it for another ; especially when the matter of the declaration is of a more general weight to them , then that of the oaths ; all which confirms my former judgment of the insecurity of such oaths to any government . give me leave then upon this to ask you , if you will bring a certain ruin upon any protestant dissenters for the sake of such an uncertain security to your selves ? for this is the question ; i beseech you to weigh it as becomes wise and good men , shall they be reprobated for tenderly refusing , what being perform'd , cannot save or secure you ? consider , you have no reason to believe , but those that are allow'd to subscribe the declaration , or that will be pardon'd , when they have done it , may be allow'd to take the oaths , or will be pardon'd and absolv'd , when they have taken them : but you are certain on the other side , that the imposing of the oaths will be a great snare to many protestant ▪ dissenters , that love the government , and renounce both pope and popery ; they will be ruin'd ; which to me is of the nature of an argument for those people : for their not taking the oaths , proves plainly , they have no dispensations nor hopes of absolution , and therefore no papists ; shall they then lie under the severities intended against papists , who have none of their dispensations or absolutions to deliver them from them ? this is ( with submission , but in plain terms ) to make the case of the kingdom worse ; for it destroys those who are not guilty , and whom , i believe , you would not destroy . having brought the matter to this , i shall first offer you a new test ; next , the ways of taking it , with most aggravation against the party rejecting or breaking it ; and lastly , how you may secure your selves from papists disguizing themselves among protestant-dissenters ; that so nothing may remain a remora in the way , that shall not be removed , to leave you a plain and even path to peace and safety . the new test . i a.b. do solemnly and in good conscience , in the sight of god and men , acknowledge and declare , that king charles the second is lawful king of this realm , and all the dominions thereunto belonging . and that neither the pope nor see of rome , nor any else by their authority have right in any case to depose the king , or dispose of his kingdom , or upon any score whatever to absolve his subjects of their obedience , or to give leave to any of them to plot or conspire the hurt of the king's person , his state or people ; and that all such pretences and power are false , pernicious and damnable . and i do further sincerely profess , and in good conscience declare , that i do not believe , that the pope is christ's vicar , or peter's lawful successor , or that he or the see of rome severally or joyntly are the rule of faith or judge of controversie , or that they can absolve sins : nor do i believe , there is a purgatory after death ; or that saints should be pray'd to or images in any sense be worship'd . nor do i believe , that there is any transubstantiation in the lord's supper , or elements of bread and wine at or after the consecration thereof by any person whatsoever . but i do firmly believe , that the present communion of the roman-catholick church is both superstitious and idolatrous . and all this i do acknowledge , intend , profess and declare without any equivocation , or reserv'd , or other sense , then the plain and usual signification of these words , according to the real intention of the law-makers and the common acceptation of all true protestants . this is the test i offer ; large in matter , because comprehensive of oaths and test too , yet brief in words . the next thing is the wayes of taking it with most aggravation upon the refusers or violaters of it . . that in all cities and great towns , notice be given by the magistrates thereof to the inhabitants of every ward or parish to appear on such a day , be it new-years-day or ash-wednesday rather ( when the pope curses all protestants ) at their publick hall or other places of commerce , where the magistrates shall first openly read , subscribe & seal the test . then that it be read again by the proper officer of the place to the people , and that those that take it , do audibly pronounce the words after him that reads it , and when they have so done , that they subscribe and seal it . that such subscriptions be register'd , and copies of each parish's subscription transmitted to the parish , and affixt upon some publick place for all that will to see . that in the countries the parishes of each hundred or rape may be likewise summon'd to appear upon the day aforesaid at the head market town in the said hundred or rape , and that the justices of the peace within that part of the country shall first read , subscribe and seal the said test in view of the people , and then that the people say , subscribe and seal the test , as is before exprest . which being done , let the said subscriptious be collected into one volumn , and kept in the county court as a book of record ; and that to each parish be transmitted a copy of the said parish's subscription , to be affixt upon some publick place within the said parish for all to see , that please . lastly , let this be done annually , that is , upon every new-years day or ash-wednesday , as a perpetual testimony of the peoples affection to the king and government , and their abhorrence of the practices of rome . the abuse of this discrimination should be very penal ; for 't is a great lye upon a man 's own conscience and a cheat put upon the government : your wisdom can best proportion and direct the punishment ; but it can scarcely be too severe , as our business stands . but as in case of such hypocrisie a severe penalty should be inflicted , so pray let provision be made , that if any person so subscribing should be afterwards call'd by the name of jesuit or papist , without very good proof , it should be deem'd and punisht in open sessions for a slander and breach of peace , yet so , as that the penalty may be remitted at the request of the abused party . i should think that this business , carefully done , might render needless my answer to the last objection , viz. which way shall we be able to prevent papists from passing for protestant dissenters , that so the security propounded to the government be not baffled by disguize ? for no papist can subscribe this but he will lye in the face of the government and country , and that yearly , and upon record too ; which is ten times more then a transient oath , mutter'd with one word spoken , and another dropt : however , that we may carry it as far as humane prudence can go , — i yet offer two expedients ; first , that upon jealousie of any persons being a papist , or popishly inclined , who is known to frequent the assemblies of protestant dissenters , four of that party of most note and integrity , unto which he pretends to adhere , should be summoned to appear before those justices of the peace , unto whom the complaint is made , to testifie their knowledge of the person suspected , his education , principles and manner of life ; which way of inspection , as it goes as far as man can reach , so can it scarcely fail ; for those persons will not only discover their own hypocrisie if they conceal him , but expose themselves and their friends to ruin. so that to say true , the government has the interest and security of an entire party , for the discovery of every such suspected person . but if this will not do , then secondly , be you pleased to refer the discrimination of suspected persons to the good old way of the government ; that is , the inquiry and judgment of twelve men of the neighbourhood , to wit , a jury ; provided always , that they be such as have taken or will themselves take the test ; else , that they may be exceptable by the party suspected . indeed a good expedient may be made out of both , for the first may be the evidence to the last , and i think you will hardly fail of your ends. i shall conclude with this request , first to almighty god , that he would please to make us truly and deeply sensible of his present mercies to us , and to reform our hearts and lives to improve them thankfully . and secondly to you , that we may be loving , humble and diligent one to and for another ; for as from such amendments we may dare promise great and suddain felicity to england , so if loosness in life , and bitterness in religion be not speedily reprehended and reform'd , and the common civil interest maintained entire , god will , i justly fear , repent he has begun to do us good , adjourn the day of our deliverance to that of our repentance and moderation , and overcast these happy dawnings of his favour by a thick and dismal cloud of confusion and misery ; which god avert ! these things that i have written , are no wild guesses or may ▪ be 's , but the disease and cure , the danger and safety of england ; in treating of which , that god that made the vvorld knows , i have not gratified any private spleen or interest ( for i am sorry of the occasion ) but singly and conscientiously intended his honor , and the lasting good of england , to which all personal and party considerations ought ever to submit . amicus plato , amicus aristoteles , sed magis amica veritas , i. e. anglia . your own faithful and most affectionate phil ' anglus . animadversions on a treatise intituled fiat lux, or, a guide in differences of religion, between papist and protestant, presbyterian and independent by a protestant. owen, john, - . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing o estc r ocm this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) animadversions on a treatise intituled fiat lux, or, a guide in differences of religion, between papist and protestant, presbyterian and independent by a protestant. owen, john, - . [ ], p. printed by e. cotes, for henry cripps ... and george west ..., london : . written by john owen. cf. nuc pre- . reproduction of original in bodleian library. page has print missing, and pages - are stained in the filmed copy. beginning-p. photographed from trinity college library, cambridge, england copy, and inserted at end. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng j. v. c. -- (john vincent canes), d. . -- fiat lux. religious tolerance -- great britain. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - spi global keyed and coded from proquest page images - judith siefring sampled and proofread - judith siefring text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion animadversions on a treatise intituled fiat lux : or , a guide in differences of religion , between papist and protestant , presbyterian and independent . by a protestant . london ; printed by e. cotes , for henry cripps in popes-head-alley , and george west in oxford , . to the reader . reader , the treatise , intituled fia● lux , which thou wilt find examined in the ensuing discourse , was lent unto me , not long since , by an honorable person , with a request to return an answer unto it . it had not been many hours in my hand , before the same desire was seconded by others . having made no ingagement unto the person of whom i received it , the book , after some few days , was rem●nded ; yet , as it fell out , not before i had finished my animadversions upon it . but before i could send my papers to the press , i heard of a second edition of that treatise ; which also occasionally coming to my hands , i perceived it had been printed some good while before i saw or heard of the first . finding the bulk of the discourse increased , i thought it needful to go through it once more , to see if any thing of moment were added to that edition which i had considered , or any alterations made by the authors second thoughts . this somewhat discouraged me , tha● , my first book being gone , i could not compare the editions , but must trust to my memory , none of the best , as to what 〈◊〉 , or was not , in that i had perused . but not designing any use in a mere comparing of the editions , but only to consider , whether in either of them any thing material was remaining , either not heeded by me , in my hasty passage through the first , or added in the second , undiscussed ; i thought it of no great concernment to enquire again after the first book . what of that nature offered its self unto me , i cast my thoughts upon , into the margin of what was before written , inserting it into the same continued discourse . i therefore desire the reader , that he may not suspect himself deceived , to take notice ▪ that whatever quotations out of that treatise he meets withal , the number of pages throughout , answers the first edition of it . of the author of that discourse , and his design therein , i have but little to premise . he seems at first view to be a napthali , an hind let loose , and to give goodly words . but though the voice we hear from him sometimes , be the voice of jacob ; yet the hands that put forth themselves , in his progress , are the hands of esau. moderation is pretended , but his counsels for peace , center in an advice for the extermination of the ishmael ( as he esteems it ) of protestancy . we know full well , that the words he begins to flourish withal , are not vox ultima papae . a discovery of the inconsistency of his real and pretended design , is one part of our business . indeed , an attentive reader , cannot but quickly discern , that perswasions unto moderation in different professions of christian religion , with a relinguishment of all others to an embracement of popery , be they never so finely smoothed , must needs interfere . but yet with words , at such real variance among themselves , doth our author hope to impose his sentiments in religion , on the minds of noble and ingenious persons , not yet accustomed to those severer thoughts and studies , which are needful to form an exact judgement in things of this nature . that he should upon any obtain both his ends , moderation , and popery , is impossible . no two things are 〈◊〉 inconsistent . let him cease the pursuit of the latter , and we will follow after the former with him , or without him . and if any man be so unhappily simple , as to think to come to moderation in religion-fewds , by turning romanist , i shall leave him for his conviction to the mistress of such wise men . my present business is , as i find , to separate between his pleas for the moderation pretended ; and those for popery really , aimed at . what force there may be in his reasons , for that which he would not have , i shall not examine , but shall manifest that there is none , in them he uses for what he would . and , reader , if this hasty attempt for the prevention of the application of them find acceptance with thee , i shall , it may be , ere long , give thee a full account of the new wayes and principles , which our author , and the men of the same perswasion , have of late years resolved on , for the promotion of their cause and interest . farewel . preface . considering the condition of affairs in these nations , in reference to the late miscarriages , and present distempers of men about religion ; it was no hard conjecture , that some would improve the advantage , seeming so fairly to present it self unto them , unto ends of their own : men of prudence , ability , and leasure , engaged by all bonds imaginable in the persuit of any special interest , need little minding of the common wayes of wisdom for its promotion . they know , that he that would fashion iron into the image and likeness which he hath fancied , must strike whilst it is hot ; when the adventitious efficacy of the fire it hath admitted , makes it pliable to that whereunto in its own nature , it is most opposite . such seems to be , in these dayes , the temper of men in religion , from those flames wherewith some have been scorched , others heated , all provoked , and made fit to receive new impressions , if wisely hammered . neither was it a difficult prognostication for any one to fore-tel , what arguments and mediums would be made use of , to animate and enliven the perswasions of men , who had either right , or confidence enough , to plead or pretend a disinterest in our miscariages , for an embracement of their profession . commonly with men that indulge to passion and distempers , as the most of men are apt to do , the last provocation blots out the remembrance of preceding crimes no less heinous . and what ever to the contrary is pretended , men usually have not that indignation against principles which have produced evils they have only heard or read of ; that they have against practices under which they have personally suffered . hence it might easily be exspected , that the romanists , supposing , at least by the help of those paroxysms they discern amongst us , that the miscariages of some of their adversaries would prove a garment large enough to cover and hide their own , would , with much confidence , improve them to their special advantage . nor is it otherwise come to pass . this perswasion and suitable practice thereon , runs through all the veins of the discourse , we have proposed to consideration ; making that seem quick and sprightly , which otherwise would have been but an heap , or a carcass . that then this sort of men would not only be angling in the lesser brooks of our troubled waters , endeavouring to enveigle wandring loose and discontented individuals , which hath been their constant employment ; but also come with their nets into our open streams ; was the thoughts of all men , who count themselves concerned to think of such things as these . there is scarce a forward emissary amongst them , who cries not in such a season ; an ego occasionem mihi ostentatam , tantam , tam bonam , tam optatam , tam insperatam , amitterem ? what baits and tacklings they would principally make use of , was also foreknown . but the way and manner which they would fix on for the mannagement of their design , now displayed in this discourse , lay not , i confess , under an ordinary prospect . for , as to what course the wisdom of men will steer them , in various alterations , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , he is no mean prophet that can but indifferently guess . but yet there wanted not some beams of light to guide men in the exercise of their stocastick faculty , even as to this also . that accommodation of religion , and all its concernments unto the humours , fancies , and conversations of men , wherewith some of late have pleased themselves , and layed snares for the ruine of others , did shrewdly portend , what in this attempt of the same party we were to expect . of this nature is that poetical strain of devotion so much applauded and prevailing in our neighbour-kingdom ; whereby men , ignorant of the heavenly power of the gospel , not only to resist , but to subdue the strongest lusts and most towring imaginations of the sons of men , do labour in soft and delicate rhymes , to attemperate religion unto the loose and aery fancies of persons wholly indulging their minds to vanity and pleasure . a fond attempt of men not knowing how to manage the sublime , spiritual , severe truths of the gospel , to the ingenerating of faith and devotion in the souls of sinners ; but yet that which they suppose is the only way left them to prevent the keeping of religion , and the most of the● party at a perpetual distance ! so mahomet saw it necessary to go to the mountain , when the mountain for all his calling would not come to him . and of the same sort is the greatest part of the casuistical divinity of the jesuits . a meer accommodation of the principles of religion to the filthy lusts and wicked lives of men , who on no other terms would resign the conduct of their souls unto them , seems to be their main design in it . on these effects of others , he that would have pondered what a wise and observing person of the same interest with them , might apprehend of the present tempers , distempers , humors , interests , provocations , fancies , lives of them , with whom he intends to deal , could not have failed of some advantage in his conjectures at the way and manner wherein he would proceed in treating of them , it is of the many , of whom we speak ; on whose countenances , and in whose lives he that runs may read provocations from former miscarriages , supine negligence of spiritual and eternal concernments , ignorance of ●hings past beyond what they can remember in their own dayes , sloth in the disquisition of the truth , willingness to be accommodated with a religion pretended secure and unconcerned in present disputes , that may save them and their sins together without further trouble , delight in queint language and poetical strains of eloquence , whereunto they are accustomed at the stage , with sundry o●her inward accout●ements of mind not unlike to these . to this frame and temper of spirin , this composition of , humours ; it was not improbable , but that those who should first enter into the lists in this design , would accommodate their style and manner of procedure ; nec spe●● fefellis expectatio . the treatise under consideration , hath fully answered what ever was of conjecture in this kind . frequent repetitions of late provocations , with the crimes of the provokers ; confident and undue assertions of things past in the dayes of old ; large promises of security temporal and eternal , to nations and all individuals in them ; of facility in coming to perfection in religion without more pains of teaching , learning , or fear of opposition ; all interwoven with tart sarcasms , pleasant diversions ; pretty stories of himself & others , flourished over with a smooth and handsom strain of rhetorick , do apparently make up the bulk of our author's discourse . nor is the romance of his conversion , much influenced by the tinckling of bells , and sweeping of churches , suited unto any other principles : a matter , i confess , so much the more admirable , because , as i suppose it , in the way mentioned , to have bin his singular lot and good hap ; so it was utterly impossible , that for five hundred , i may say a thousand years after christ , any man should on these motives be turned to any religion , most of them being not in those days in rerum natura . a way of handling religion he hath fixed on , which , as , i suppose , he will himself acknowledge , that the first planters of it were ignorant of ; so i will promise him , that if he can for a thousand years after they began their work , instance in any one book of an approved catholick author , written with the same design that this is , he shall have one proselyte to his profession ; which is more , i suppose , then otherwise he will obtain by his learned labour . that this is no other , but to perswade men , that they can find no certainty or establishment for their faith in scripture , but must for it devolve themselves solely on the authority of the pope , will afterwards be made to appear , nor will himself deny it . but it may be , it is unreasonable , that when men are eagerly engaged in the persuit of their interest , we should think from former presidents , or general rules of sobriety , with that reverence which is due to the things of the great and holy god , to impose upon them the way and manner of their progress . the event and end aimed at , is that which we are to respect ; the management of their business in reference to this world and that which is to come , is their own concernment . no man , i suppose , who hath any acquaintance with the things he treats about , can abstain from smiling , to observe how dexterously he turns and winds himself in his cloak , ( which is not every ones work to dance in ) how he gilds over the more comely parts of his amasia , with brave suppositions , presumptions , and stories of things past and present , where he has been in his dayes ; covering her deformities with a perpetual silence ; ever and anon bespattering the first reformation and reformers in his passage . yea , their contentment must needs proceed to an high degree of complacence , in whom compassion for the woful state of them whom so able a man judgeth like to be enveigled by such flourishes and pretences , doth not excite to other affections . the truth is , if ever there blew a wind of doctrine on unwary souls 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , we have an instance of it in this discourse . such a disposposition of cogging slights , various drafts in entising words , is rarely met with . many , i think , are not able to take this course in handling the sacred things of god , and eternal concernments of men ; and more , i hope , dare not . but our author is another man's servant ; i shall not judge him , he stands or falls to his own master . that which the importunity of some noble friends hath compelled me unto is , to offer somewhat to the judgement of impartial men , that may serve to unmask him of his gilded pretences , and to lay open the emptiness of those prejudices and presumptions wherewith he makes such a tinckling noyse in the ears of unlearned and unstable persons . occasion of serious debate is very little administred by him ; that which is the task assigned me , i shall as fully discharge , as the few hours allotted to its performance will allow . in my dealing with him , i shall not make it my business to defend the several parties , whereinto the men of his contest are distributed by our author as such ; not all , not any of them . it is the common protestant cause which , in and by all of them , he seeks to oppose so far as they are interested and concerned therein ; they fall all of them within the bounds of our present defensative . wherein they differ one from another , or any , or all of them do , or may , swerve from the common principles of the protestant religion ; i have nothing to do with them in this business : and if any be so far addicted to their parties , wherein , it may be , they are in the wrong , as to choose rather not to be vindicated and pleaded for , in that wherein with others i know they are in the right , than to be joyned in the same plea with them from whom in part they differ , i cannot help it . i pretend not their commission for what i do ; and they may , when they please , disclaim my appearance for them . i suppose , by this course , i shall please very few , and , i am sure , i shall displease some , if not many : i aim at neither , but to profit all . i have sundry reasons for not owning or avowing particularly any party in this discourse , so as to judge the rest , wherewith i am not bound to acquaint the world. one of them i shall , and , i hope , it is such an one , as may suffice ingenious and impartial men , and thereunto some others may be added . the gentleman whose discourse i have undertaken the consideration of , was pleased to front and close it , with a part of a speech of my lord chancellor's ; and his placing of it manifests how he uses it . he salutes it in his entrance , and takes his leave also of it , never regarding its intendment , until coming to the close of his treatise , to his salve in the beginning , he adds an aeternùm vale. that the mention of such an excellent discourse , the best part in both our books , might not be lost , i have suited my plea and desensative of protestantism , to the spirit and principles and excellent ratiocinations of it ; behind that shield i lay the manner of my proceeding , where , if it be not safe , i care not what becomes of it . besides , it is not for what the men of his title-page are differenced amongst themselves , that our author blames them , but for what he thinks they agree in too well , in reference to the church of rome ; nor doth be insist on the evils of their contests to perswade them to peace amongst themselves , or to prevail over them to center in any one perswasion about which they contend , but to lead them all , over to the pope . and if any of them with whom our author deals and sports himself in his treatise , are fallen off from the fundamental denominating principles of protestant religion , as some of them seem to be , they come not within the compass of our plea , seeing , as such , they are not dealt with by our author . it is the protestant religion in general , which he charges with all the irregularities , uncertainties , and evils , that he exspatiates about ; and from the principles of it , doth he endeavour to withdraw us . as to the case then under debate with him , it is enough , if we manifest that that profession of religion is not lyable or obnoxious to any of the crimes or inconveniences by him objected unto it ; and , that the remedy of our evils , whether real or imaginary , which he would impose upon us , is so far from being specifical towards their cure , that it is indeed far worse then the disease pretended : to the full as undesirable as the cutting of the throat , for the cure of a fore-finger . there is no reason therefore in this business , wherefore i should avow any one perswasion about which protestants that consent in general in the same confession of faith , may have or actually have difference amongst themselves ; especially , if i do also evince , there is no cogency in them , to cause any of them to renounce the truth wherein they all agree . much less shall i undertake to plead for , excuse , or palliate the miscarriages of any part or parties of men during our late unhappy troubles : nor shall i make much use of what offers it self in a way of recrimination . certain it is , that as to this gentleman's pretensions , sundry things might be insisted on , that would serve to allay the fierceness of his spirit , in his management of other mens crimes to his own ends and purposes . the sound of our late evils , as it is known to all the world , began in ireland , amongst his good roman-catholicks , who were blessed from rome into rebellion and murder , somewhat before any drop of bloud was shed in england , or scotland , — oculis malè lippus inunctis cur in amicorum vitiis tam cernis acutùm quàm aut aquila aut serpens epidaurius ? let them that are innocent throw stones at others ; roman-catholicks are unfit to be imployed in that work . but it was never judged either a safe or honest way , to judge of any religion by the practises of some that have professed it . men by doctrines and principles , nor doctrines by men ; was the trial of old . and if this be a rule to guide our thoughts in reference to any religion , namely , the principles which it avows and asserts , i know none that can vye with the romanists , in laying foundations of , and making provision for , the disturbance of the civil peace of kingdoms and nations . for the present , unto the advantage taken by our author from our late unnatural wars and tumults to reflect on protestancy , i shall only say , that , if all the religion of sinners be to be quitted and forsaken , i doubt , that professed by the pope must be cashiered for company . least of all , shall i oppose my self to that moderation in the persuit of our religious interests , which he pretends to plead for . he that will plead against mutual forbearance in religion , can be no christian , at least no good one . much less shall i impeach what he declaims against , that abominable principle of disturbing the peace of kingdoms and nations , under a pretence of defending , reforming or propagating of our faith and opinions . but i know , that neither the commendation of the former , nor the decrying of the latter , is the proper work of our author ; for , as the present principles and past practises of the men of that church and religion which he defends , will not allow him to entertain such hard thoughts of the latter , as he pretends unto ; so as to the former , where he has made some progress in his work , and either warmed his zeal beyond his first intendment for its discovery , or has gotten some confidence , that he hath obtained a better acceptance with his reader , then at the entrance of his discourse he could lay claim unto , laying aside those counsels of moderation and forbearance which he had gilded over , he plainly declares , that the only way of procuring peace amongst us , is by the extermination of protestancy . for having compared the roman-catholick to isaack , the proper heir of the house , and protestants to ishmael vexing him in his own inheritance , the only way to obtain peace , he tells us , is , projiee ancillam cum filio suo ; cast out the handmaid with her son , that is , in the gloss of their former practices , either burn them at home , or send them to starve abroad . there is not the least reason then , why i should trouble my self with his flourishes and stories , his characters of us and our neighbour-nations , in reference unto moderation and forbearance in religion ; that is not the thing by him intended ; but is only used to give a false alarum to his unwary readers , whilst he marches away with a rhetorical perswasive unto popery . in this it is wherein alone i shall attend his motions ; and , if in our passage through his other discourses , we meet with any thing lying , in a direct tendency unto his main end , though pretended to be used to another purpose , it shall not pass without some animadversion . also , i shall be farr from contending with our author in those things wherein his discourse excelleth , and , that upon the two general reasons , of wil and ability . neither could i compare with him in them if i would , nor would if i could . his quaint rhetorick , biting sarcasms , fine stories , smooth expressions of his high contempt of them with whom he has to do ; with many things of that sort , the repetition of whose names hath got the reputation of incivility , are things wherein as i cannot keep pace with him , ( for illud possumus quod jure possumus ) ; so i have no mind to follow him . chap. i. our author's preface . and his method . it is not any disputation , or rational debate about differences in religion that our author intends ; nor , until towards the close of his treatise , doth he at all fix directly on any thing in controversie between romanists and protestants . in the former parts of his discourse , his design is sometimes covered , alwayes carryed on in the way of a rhetorical declamation ; so , that it is not possible , and is altogether needless to trace all the particular passages and expressions as they lye scattered up and down in his discourse , which he judgeth of advantage unto him in the mannagement of the work he has undertaken . some suppositions there are which lye at the bottom of his whole superstructure , quickning the oratory and rhetorical , part of it , ( undoubtedly it's best , ) which he chose rather to take for granted , then to take upon himself the trouble to prove . these being drawn forth and removed , what ever he hath built upon them , with all that paint and flourish wherewith it is adorned , will of it self fall to the ground . i shall then first briefly discuss what he offers as to the method of his procedure , and then take this for my own ; namely , i shall draw out and examin the fundamental principles of his oration , upon whose tryal the whole must stand or fall , and then pass through the severals of the whole treatise , with such animadversions , as what remaineth of it , may seem to require . his method he speaks unto , pag. . my method , saith he , i do purposely conceal , to keep therein a more handsom decorum : for he that goes about to part a fighting fray , cannot observe a method , 〈◊〉 must turn himself this way and that as occasion offers ; be it a corporal or mental duel . so did good sc. paul in his epistle to the romans , which of all his other epistles as it hath most of solidity , so it hath least of method in the context ; the reason is , &c. these are handsom words , of a man that seems to have good thoughts of himself and his skill , in parting frays . but yet i see not how they hang well together , as to any congruity of their sense and meaning . surely , he that useth no method , nor can use any , cannot conceal his method ; no , though he purpose so to do . no man's purpose to hide , will enable him to hide that which is not . if he hath concealed his method , he hath used one : if he hath used none , he hath not concealed it : for , that which is wanting cannot be numbered . nor hath he by this , or any other means , kept any handsom decorum : not having once spoken the sense , or according to the principles of him whom he undertakes to personate : which is such an observance of a decorum as a man shall not lightly meet with . nor hath he discovered any mind so to part a fray , as that the contenders might hereafter live quietly one by another ; his business being avowedly to perswade as many as he can to a conjunction in one party , for the destruction of all the rest . and what ever he saith of not using a method , the method of his discourse , with the good words it is set off withall , is the whole of his interest in it : he pretends indeed , to pass through loca nullius an●● trita solo ; yet setting aside his mannagement of the advantages given him by the late miserable tumults in these nations ; and the provision he has made for the entertainment of his reade● , are worts boyled an hundred times over , as he knows well enough . and , for the method which he would have us believe not to be , and yet to be concealed , it is rather 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 then 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 rather a crafty various distribution of entising words , and plausible pretences to enveagle and delude men unlearned and unstable , then any decent contexture of , or fair progress in , a rational discourse , or regular disposition of nervous topicks , to convince or perswade the minds of men , who have their eyes in their heads . i shall therefore little trouble my self further about it , but only discover it as occasion shall require ; for , the discovery of sophistry is its proper confutation . however the course he steers is the same that good st. paul used in his epistle to the romans , which hath , as he tells us , most of solidity and least of method of all his epistles ; i confess , i knew not before , that his church had determined which of st. paul's epistles had most of solidity , which least . for i have such good thoughts of him , that , i suppose , he would not do it of his own head : nor do i know , that he is appointed umpire to determin upon the writings that came all of them by inspiration from god , which is most solid . this therefore must needs be the sense of his church , which he may be acquainted with , twenty wayes that i know not of . and here his protestant vizor which by and by he will utterly cast off , fell off from him , i presume at unawares . that he be no more so entrapped , i wish he would take notice against the next time he hath occasion to personate a protestant ; that although for method purely adventitious and belonging to the external manner of writing , protestants may affirm , that one epistle is more methodical then another , according to those rules of method , which our selves , or other worms of the earth like to our selves , have invented ; yet , for their solidity , which concerns the matter of them , and efficacy , for conviction , they affirm them all equal . nor is he more happy in what he intimates of the immethodicalness of that epistle to the romans : for , as it is acknowledged by all good expositors , that the apostle useth a most clear distinct and exact method in that epistle , whence most theological systems are composed by the rule of it ; so our authour himself assigneth such a design unto him , and the use of such wayes and means in the prosecution of it , as argues a diligent observation of a method . i confess , he is deceived in the occasion and intention of the epistle , by following some few late roman expositors , neglecting the analysis given of it by the antients : but we may pass that by ; because i find his aim in mentioning a false scope and design , was not to acquaint us with his mistake , but to take an advantage to fall upon our ministers ; and i think , a little too early , for one so careful to keep an handsom decorum , for culling out of this epistle texts against the christian doctrine of good works done in christ , by his special grace , out of obedience to his command , with a promise of everlasting reward and intrinsick acceptability thence accrewing . thus we see still incoeptis gravibus plerunque & magna professis purpureus latè qui splendeat unus & alter assuitur pan●us ; — sed nunc nonerat his locus . use of disputing , has cast him at the very entrance of his discourse , upon , as he supposeth , a particular controversie between protestants and roman-catholicks , quite besides his design and purpose ; but instead of obtaining any advantage , by this transgression of his own rule , he is faln upon a new misadventure ; and , that so much the greater because it evidently discovers somewhat in him besides mistake . i am sure , i have heard as many of our ministers preach as he , and read as many of their books as he , yet i can testifie , that i never heard or read them opposing the christian doctrin of good works . often i have heard and found them pressing a universal obedience to the whole law of god teaching men to abound in good works , pressing the indispensable necessity of them from the commands of law and gospel , encouraging men unto them by the blessed promises of acceptance and reward in christ , declaring them to be the way of mens coming to the kingdom of heaven ; affirming , that all that believe are created in christ jesus unto good works , and for men to neglect , to despise them , is wilfully to neglect their own salvation : but , opposing the christian doctrine of good works ; and that with sayings ●ulled out of st. paul 's epistle to the romans , i never heard , i never read any protestant minister . there is but one expression in that declaration of the doctrine of good works , which , he saith , protestants oppose used by himself , that they do not own ; and , that is their intrinsick acceptability : which i fear he doth not very well understand himself . if he mean by it , that there is in good works an intrinsical worth and value , from their exact answerableness to the law , and proportion to the reward , so as on rules of justice to deserve and merit it ; he speaks daggers , and doth not himself believe what he sayes , it being contradictious ; for he lays their acceptability on the account of the promise . if he intend , that god having graciously promised to accept and receive them in christ , they become thereupon acceptable and rewardable ; this , protestant ministers teach dayly . against the former explication of their acceptability , in reference to the justice of god , on their own account , and the justification of their persons that perform them , for them ; i have often heard them speaking , but never with any authority , or force of argument , comparable to that used by st. paul in his epistle to the romans , to the same purpose . but this tale of protestants opposing the christian doctrine of good works , hath been so often told by the romanists , that i am perswaded , some of them begin to believe it ; however it be not only false , but from all circumstances , very incredible : and finding our author hugely addicted to approve any thing that passeth for current in his party , i will not charge him with a studyed fraud ; in the finding it so advantagious to his cause , he took hold of a very remote occasion to work an early prejudice in the minds of his readers , against them and their doctrine whom he designeth to oppose . when he writes next , i hope he will mind the account we have all to make of what we do write , and say , and be better advised , than to give countenance to such groundless slanders . chap. ii. heathen pleas. general principles . we have done with his method , or manner of proceeding ; our next view shall be of those general principles , and suppositions , which animate the paraenetical part of his work , and whereon it is solely founded . and here i would entreat him not to be offended , if in the entrance of this discourse , i make bold to mind him , that the most , if not all , of his pleas , have been long since insisted on by a very learned man , in a case not much unlike this which we have in hand ; and were also long since answered by one as learned as he , or as any the world saw in the age wherein he lived , or it may be since , to this day , though he died now years ago . the person i intend is celsus the philosopher , who objected the very same things , upon the same general grounds , and ordered his objections in the same manner , against the christians of old , as our author doth against the protestants : and the answer of origen to his eight books , will save any man the labour of answering this one , who knows how to make application of general rules and principles , unto particular cases that may be regulated by them . doth our author lay the cause of all the troubles , disorders , tumults , warrs , wherewith the nations of europe , have been for some season , and are still , in some places , infested , on the protestants ? so doth celsus charge all the evils , and commotions , plagues , and famines , wherewith mankind , in those dayes , was much wasted , upon the christians . doth our author charge the protestants , that by their breaking off from rome , with schisms and seditions they made way for others , on the same principles to break off seditiously from themselves ? so did celsus charge the jews and christians ; telling the jews , that by their seditious departure from the common worship and religion of the world , they made way for the christians , a branch of themselves , to 〈◊〉 them and their worship in like manner , and to set up for themselves : and following on his objection he applies it to the christians , that they departing from the jews , had broached principles for others to improve into a departure from them ; which is the sum of most that is pleaded with any fair pretence , by our author , against protestants . doth he insist upon the divisions of the protestants , and to make it evident that he speaks knowingly , boast , that he is acquainted with their persons , and hath read the books of all sorts amongst them ? so doth celsus deal with the christians , reproaching them with their divisions , discords , mutual animosities , disputes , about god , and his worship ; boasting , that he had debated the matter with them , and read their books of all sorts . hath he gathered a rhapsody of insignificant words , at least , as by him put together , out of the books of the quakers , to reproach protestants with their divisions ? so did celsus out of the books and writings of the gnosticks , elionites , and valentinians . doth he bring in protestants pleading against the sects that are fallen from them , and these pleading against them , justifying the protestants against them , but at length equally rejecting them all ? so dealt celsus with the jews , christians , and those that had fallen into singular opinions of their own . doth he mannage the arguments of the jews against christ , to intimate that we cannot well by scripture prove him to be so ? the very same thing did celsus , almost in the very words here used . doth he declaim openly about the obscurity of divine things , the nature of god , the works of creation , and providence , that we are not like to be delivered from it by books of poems , stories , plain letters ? so doth celsus . doth he insist on the uncertainty of our knowing the scripture to be from god ; the difficulty of understanding it ; its insufficiency to end mens differences about religion , and the worship of god ? the same doth celsus at large , pleading the cause of paganism , against christianity . doth our author plead , that where , and from whom men had their religion of old , there and with them they ought to abide , or to return unto them ? the same doth celsus , and that with pretences far more specious then those of our author : doth he plead the quietness of all things in the world , the peace , the plenty , love , union , that were in the dayes before protestants began to trouble all , as he supposeth , about religion ? the same course steers celsus , in his contending against christians in general . is there intimated by our author , a decay of devotion and reverence to religious things , temples ▪ & c ? celsus is large on this particular ; the relinquishment of temples , discouragement of priests in their dayly sacrifices , and heavenly contemplations , with other votaries ; contempt of holy altars , images , and statua's of worthies deceased , all heaven-bred ceremonies and comely worship by the means of christians , he expatiates upon . doth he profess love and compassion to his countreymen , to draw them off from their folly , to have been the cause of his writing ? so doth celsus . doth he deride and scoff at the first reformers , with no less witty and biting sarcasms than those wherewith aristophanes jeered socrates on the stage ? celsus deals no otherwise with the first propagators of christianity . hath he taken pains to palliate and put new glosses and interpretations upon those opinions and practises in his religion , which seem most obnoxious to exception ? the same work did celsus undertake , in reference to his pagan theology and worship . and in sundry other things may the parallel be traced ; so , that i may truly say , i cannot observe any thing of moment or importance of the nature of a general head or principle in this whole discourse made use of against protestants , but that the same was used , as by others of old , so in particular , by celsus , against the whole profession of christianity . i will not be so injurious to our author , as once to surmise , that he took either aim , or assistance , in his work from so bitter a professed enemy of christ jesus , and the religion by him revealed ; yet he must give me leave to reckon this coincidence of argumentation between them , amongst other instances that may be given , where a similitude of cause hath produced a great likeness , if not identity , in the reasonings of ingenious men . i could not satisfie my self without remarking this parallel ; and perhaps , much more needs not to be added , to satisfie an unprejudiced reader in , or to , our whole business : for , if he be one that is unwilling to fore-go his christianity , when he shall see , that the arguments that are used to draw him from his protestancy , are the very same in general , that wise men of old made use of to subvert that which he is resolved to cleave unto ; he needs not much deliberation with himself what to do , or say , in this case , or be solicitous what he shall answer , when he is earnestly entreated to suffer himself to be deceived . of the pretences● before-mentioned , some with their genuine inferences , are the main principles of this whole discourse . and seeing they bear the weight of all the pleas , reasonings , and perswasions that are drawn from them , which can have no further real strength and efficacy , then what is from them communicated unto them , i shall present them in one view to the reader , that he loose not himself in the maze of words , wherewith our author endeavours to lead him up and down , still out of his way ; and , that he may make a clear and distinct judgement of what is tendered to prevail upon him to desert that profession of religion wherein he is ingaged . for , as i dare not attempt to deceive any man , though in matters incomparably of less moment then that treated about ; so , i hope , no man can justly be offended , if in this , i warn him to take heed to himself , that he be not deceived . and they are these that follow ; i. that we in these nations first received the christian religion from rome , by the mission and authority of the pope . ii. that whence , and from whom , we first received our religion ; there , and wi●h them , we ought to abide , to them we must repair for guidance in all our concernments in it , and speedily return to their rule and conduct , if we have departed from them . iii. that the roman profession of religion and practise in the worship of god , is every way the same as it was when we first received our religion from thence ; nor can ever otherwise be . iv. that all things as to religion were quiet and in peace , all men in union and at agreement amongst themselves , in the worship of god , according ▪ to the mind of christ , before the relinquishment of the roman-see by our fore-fathers . v. that the first reformers were the most of them sorry contemptible persons , whose errors were propagated by indirect means , and entertained for sinister ends . vi. that our departure from rome hath been the cause of all our evills , and particularly , of all those divisions which are at this day found amongst the protestants , and which have been ever since the reformation . vii . that we have no remedy of our evils , no means of ending our differences but by a return unto the rule of the roman-see . viii . the scripture upon sundry accounts is insufficient to settle us in the truth of religion , or to bring us to an agreement amongst our selves ; seeing it is , . not to be known to be the word of god , but by the testimony of the roman church : . cannot be well translated into our vulgar language : . is in it self obscure : and , . we have none to determine of the sense of it . ix . that the pope is a good man , one that seeks nothing but our good , that never did us harm , and hath the care and inspection of us committed unto him by christ. x. that the devotion of the catholicks , far transcends that of protestants , nor is their doctrine or worship liable to any just exception ▪ i suppose , our author will not deny these to be the principal nerves and sinews of his oration ; nor complain , i have done him the least injury in this representation of them ; or , that any thing of importance unto his advantage by himself insisted on , is here omitted . he that runs and reads , if he observe any thing that lies before him , besides handsome words , and ingenious diversions , will consent , that here lies the substance of what is offered unto him . i shall not need then to tire the reader , and my self , with transcriptions of those many words from the several parts of his discourse , wherein these principles are laid down and insinuated , or gilded over , as things on all hands granted . besides , so far as they are interwoven with other reasonings , they will fall again under our consideration in the several places where they are used and improved . if all these principles upon examination be found good , true , firm , and stable ; it is most meet and reasonable that our author should obtain his desire : and if , on the other side , they shall appear , some of them false , some impertinent , and the deductions from them sophistical , some of them destructive to christian religion in general ; none of them singly , nor all of them together able to bear the least part of that weight which is laid upon them , i suppose , he cannot take it ill , if we resolve to be contented with our present condition , until some better way of deliverance from it be proposed unto us ; which , to tell him the truth , for my part , i do not expect from his church or party . let us then consider these principles apart , in the order wherein we have laid them down , which was the best i could think on upon the suddain , for the advantage of him who makes use them . the first is an hinge , upon which many of those which follow , do , in a a sort , depend ; yea , upon the matter , all of them . our primitive receiving christian religion from rome , is that which influences all perswasions for a return thither . now if this must be admitted to be true , that we in these nations first received the christian religion from rome , by the mission and authority of the pope ; it either must be so , because the proposition carries its own evidence in its very terms , or because our author , and those consenting with him , have had it by revelation , or it hath been testified to them by others , who knew it so to be : that the first it doth not , is most certain ; for , it is very possible , it might have been brought unto us from some other place , from whence it came to rome ; for , as i take it , it had not there its beginning . nor do i suppose , they will plead special revelation , made either to themselves , or any others about this matter . i have read many of the revelations that are said to be made to sundry persons canonized by his church for saints ; but never met with any thing concerning the place from whence england first received the gospel . nor have i yet heard revelation pleaded to this purpose by any of his co-partners in design . it remains then , that some body hath told him so , or informed him of it , either by writing , or by word of mouth : usually , in such cases , the first enquiry is , whether they be credible persons who have made the report . now the pretended authors of this story , may , i suppose , be justly questioned , if on no other , yet on this account , that he who designes an advantage by their testimony , doth not indeed himself believe what , they say . for notwithstanding what he would fain have us believe of christianity coming into brittain from rome , he knows well enough , and tells us elsewhere himself , that it came directly by sea from palestina into france , and was thence brought into england by joseph of ariniathea . and what was that faith and worship which he brought along with him , we know full well ; by that which was the faith and worship of his teachers , and associates , in the work of propagating the gospel recorded in the scripture . so that christianity found a passage to brittain , without so much as once visiting rome by the way . yea , but years after , fugatius and damianus came from rome , and propagated the gospell here ; and , years after them , austin the monk. of these stories we shall speak particularly afterwards . but this quite spoiles the whole market in hand ; this is not a first receiving of the gospel , but a second and third at the best ; and if that be considerable , then so ought the proposition to be laid : these nations a second and third time , after the first from another place , received the gospell from rome ; but this will not discharge that bill of following items , with is laid upon it . what ever then there is considerable in the place or persons , from whence , or whom , a nation , or people , receive the gospel , as farr as it concerns us , in these kingdoms ; it relates to jerusalem and jews , not rome and italians . indeed , it had been very possible , that christian religion might have been propagated at first from rome into britany , considering , what , in these dayes , was the condition of the one place , and the other ; yet things were so ordered , in the providence of the lord , that it fell out otherwise ; and the gospell was preached here in england , probably , before ever st. paul came to rome , or st. peter either , if ever he came there . but yet , to prevent wrangling about austin and the saxons , let us suppose that christian religion was first planted in these nations by persons coming from rome , if you will , men sent by the pope , before he was born , for that purpose : what then will follow ? was it the popes religion they taught and preached ? did the pope first find it out , and declare it ? did they baptize men into the name of the pope ? or , declare that the pope was crucified for them ? you know whose arguings these are , to prove men should not lay weight upon , or contend about , the first ministerial revealers of the gospel ; but rest all in him who is the author of it , christ jesus . did any come here and preach in the popes name , declare a religion of his revealing , or resting in him as the fountain and sourse of the whole business they had to do ? if you say so , you say something which is near to your purpose , but certainly very wide from the truth . but because it is most certain , that god had not promised , originally , to send the rod of christs strength out of rome , i shall take leave to ask , whence the gospel came thither ? or , to use the words made use of once and again by our author , came the gospell from them , or came it to them only ? i suppose they will not say so , because they speak to men that have seen the bible : if it came to them from others , what priviledge had they at rome , that they should not have the same respect for them , from whom the gospel came to them , as they claim from those unto whom they plead , that it came from themselves ? the case is clear ; st. peter coming to rome , brought his chair along with him , after which time , that was made the head , spring , and fountain of all religion , and no such thing could befall those places , where the planters of the gospel had no chaires to settle . i think i have read this story in an hundred writers , but they were all men of yesterday , in comparison ; who , what ever they pretend , know no more of this business , than my self . st. peter speaks not one word of it , in his writings ; nor yet st. luke ; nor st. paul , nor any one who by divine inspiration , committed any thing to remembrance of the state of the church , after the resurrection of christ. and not only are they utterly silent of this matter ; but so also are clemens , and ignatius , and justin martyr , and tertullian , with the rest of knowing men in those dayes . i confess , in after-ages , when some began to think it meet , that the chiefest apostle should go to the then chiefest city in the world , divers began to speak of his going thither , and of his martyrdom there , though they agree not in their tales about it . but be it so ; as for my part , i will not contend in a matter so dark , uncertain , of no moment in religion ; this i know , that being the apostle of the circumcision , if he did go to rome , it was to convert the jews that were there , and not to found that gentile-church , which in a short space got the start of the other ; but yet , neither do these writers talk of bringing his chair thither ; much less is there in them one dust of that rope of sand , which men of latter dayes have endeavoured to twist with inconsistent consequences , and groundless presumptions to draw out from thence the popes prerogative . the case then is absolutely the same as to those in respect of the romans , who received the gospel from them , or by their means ; and of the romans themselves , in respect of those from whom they received it . if they would win worship to themselves from others , by pretending that the gospel came forth from them unto them ; let them teach them by the example of their devotion towards those from whom they received it . i suppose , they will not plead , that they are not now in rerum naturâ ; knowing what will ensue to their disadvantage on that plea. for , if that church is utterly failed and gone from whence they first received the gospel , that which others received it from , may possibly be not in a much better condition . but i find my self , before i was aware , faln into the borders of the second principle , or presumption mentioned . i shall therefore shut up my consideration of this first pretence , with this only ; that neither is it true , that these nations first received christianity from rome , much less by any mission of the pope ; nor , if they had done so , in the exercise of a ministerial work and authority , would this make any thing to what is pretended from it ; nor will it ever be of any use to the present romanists , unless they can prove , that the pope was the first author of christian religion , which , as yet , they have not attempted to do , and thence it is evident , what is to be thought of the second principle before-mentioned ; namely , ii. that whence , and from whom , we first receive our religion , there , and with them , we must abide therein , to them we must repair for guidance , and return to their rule and conduct , if we have departed from them . i have shewed already , that there is no privity of interests between us and the romanists in this matter . but suppose , we had been originally instructed in christianity by men sent from rome to that purpose , ( for unless , we suppose this , for the p●●sent , our talk is at an end ) i see not , as yet , the verity of this proposition . with the truth , ( where-ever it be , or with whomsoever ) it is most certainly our duty to abide . and if those , from whom we first received our christianity ministerially , abide in the truth , we must abide with them ; not because they , or their predecessors , were the instruments of our conversion ; but , because they abide in the truth . setting aside this consideration of truth , which is the bond of all union , and that which fixeth the center , and limits the bounds of it , one peoples , or one churches abiding with another in any profession of religion , is a thing meerly indifferent . when we have received the truth from any , the formal reason of our continuance with them in that union , which our reception of the truth from them gives unto us , is their abiding in the truth , and no other . suppose some persons , or some church or churches , do propagate christianity to another ; and in progress of time , themselves fall off from some of those truths , which they , or their predecessors , had formerly delivered unto these instructed by them ? if our author shall deny , that such a supposition can well be made , because it never did , nor can fall out , i shall remove his exception , by scores of instances out of antiquity , needless in so evident a matter to be here mentioned . what in this case would be their duty who received the gospel from them ? must they abide with them , follow after them , and imbrace the errors they are fallen into , because they first received the gospel from them ? i trow not ; it will be found their duty to abide in the truth , and not to pin their faith upon the sleeves of them , by whom ministerially it was at first communicated unto them . but this case , you will say , concerns not the roman-church , and protestants ; for , as these abide not in the truth , so they never did , nor can , depart from it . well then ! that we may not displease them at present , let us put the case so , as i presume , they will own it . suppose , men , or a church , intrusted by christ authoritatively to preach the gospel , do propagate the faith unto others according to their duties ; these , being converted by their means , do afterwards , through the craft and subtilty of seducers , fall in sundry things from the truths they were instructed in , and wherein their instructers do constantly abide ; yea , say our adversaries , this is the true case indeed ; i ask then , in this case , what is , and ought to be , the formal motive to prevail with these persons to return to their former condition from whence they were faln ? either this , that they are departed from the truth , which they cannot do , without peril to their souls , and whereunto , if they return not , they must perish ; or this , that it is their duty to return to them from whom they first received the doctrine of christianity , because they so received it from them ? st. paul , who surely , had as much authority in these matters , as either the pope , or church of rome , can with any modesty lay claim unto , had to deal with very many in this case . particularly , after he had preached the gospel to the galatians , and converted them to the faith of christ , there came in some false teachers and seducers amongst them , which drew them off from the truth wherein they had been instructed , in divers important and some fundamental points of it . what course doth the apostle proceed in , towards them ? doth he plead with them about their falling away from him that first converted them ? or falling away from the truth whereunto they were converted ? if any one will take the pains to turn to any chapter in that epistle , he may be satisfied as to this enquiry ; it is their falling away from the gospel , from the truth they had received , from the doctrine , in particular , of faith and justification by the bloud of christ , that alone he blamed them for : yea , and makes doctrines so farr the measure and rule of judging and censuring of persons , whether they preach the word first or last , that he pronounceth a redoubled anathema , against any creature in heaven or earth , upon a supposition of their teaching any thing contrary unto it , chap. . . he pleads not , we preached first unto you , by us you were converted , and therefore with us you must abide , from whom the faith came forth unto you ; but saith , if we , or an angel from heaven , preach any other gospel , let him be accursed . this was the way he chose to insist on ; and it may not be judged unreasonable , if we esteem it better then that of theirs , who by false pretending to have been our old , would very fain be our new masters . but the mentioned maxim lets us know , that the persons , and churches , that have received the faith from the roman-church , or by means thereof , should abide under the rule and conduct of it , and , if departed from it , return speedily to due obedience . i think , it will be easily granted , that , if we ought to abide under its rule and conduct , whither ever it shall please to guide us , we ought quickly to return to our duty and task , if we should make any loapment from it . it is not meet , that those that are born mules to bondage , should ever alter their condition . only we must profess , we know not the springs of that unhappy fate , which should render us such animals . unto what is here pretended , i only ask , whether this right of presidency and rule in the roman-church , over all persons and churches pretended of old to be converted by her means , do belong unto her by vertue of any general right that those who convert others , should for ever have the conduct of those converted by them , or by vertue of some special priviledge granted to the church of rome above others ? if the first , or general title , be insisted on , it is most certain , that a very small pittance of jurisdiction , will be left unto the roman-see , in comparison of that vast empire , which now it hath , or layeth claim unto , knowing no bounds , but those of the universal nature of things here below . for all men know , that the gospel was preached in very many places of the world , before its sound reached unto rome , and in most parts of the then-known world , before any such planting of a church at rome , as might be the foundation of any authoritative mission of any from thence for the conversion of others ; and , after that a church was planted in that city , for any thing that may be made to appear by story , it was as to the first edition of christianity in the roman-empire , as little serviceable in the propagation of the gospel , as any other church of name in the world ; so that , if such principles should be pleaded , as of general equity , there could be nothing fixed on more destructive to the romanist's pretences . if they have any special priviledge to found this claim upon , they may do well to produce it . in the scripture , though there be of many believers , yet there is no mention made , of any church at rome , but only of that little assembly that used to meet at aquila's house , rom. . . of any such priviledge annexed unto that meeting , we find nothing ; the first general council , confirming power and rule over others in some churches , acknowledge , indeed , more to have been practised in the roman-church then i know how they could prove to be due unto it . but yet that very unwarrantable grant , is utterly destructive to the present claim and condition of the pope and church of rome . the wings , now pretended to be like those of the sun , extending themselves , at once , to the ends of the earth , were then accounted no longer , then to be able to cover the poor believers in the city and suburbs of it , and some few adjacent towns and villages . it would be a long story , to tell the progress of this claim in after-times ; it is sufficiently done in some of those books , of which our author says , there are enough to fill the tower of london ; where , i presume , or into the fire , he could be contented they should be for ever disposed of , and therefore we may dismiss this principle also . iii. that which is the main piller , bearing the weight of all this fine fabrick , is the principle we mentioned in the third place , viz. that the roman profession of religion , and practise in the worship of god , are every way the same , as when we first received the gospel from the pope , nor can they ever otherwise be . this is taken for granted , by our author , throughout his discourse . and the truth is , that , if a man hath a mind to suppose , and make use of things that are in question between him and his adversary , it were a folly not to presume on so much as should assuredly serve his turn . to what purpose is it to mince the matter , and give opportunity to new cavils , and exceptions , by baby●me●●y-mouthed petitions of some small things that there is a strife abou● , when a man may as honestly , all 〈◊〉 once , suppose the whole truth of his side , and proceed without fear of disturbance . and so wisely deals our author in this business . that which ought to have been his whole work , he takes for granted , to be already done . if this be granted him , he is safe ; deny it , and all his fine oration dwindles into a little sapless sophistry . but he must get the great number of books that he seems to be troubled with , out of the world , and the scripture to boot , before he will perswade considerate and unprejudiced men , that there is a word of truth in this supposition . that we in these nations received not the gospel originally from the pope , ( which pag. . our author tells us is his , purely his , whereas we thought before , it had been christ's ) hath been declared , and shall , if need be , be further evinced . but let us suppose once again , that we did so ; yet we constantly deny the church of rome , to be the same in doctrine , worship , and discipline , that she was when it is pretended , that by her means we were instituted in the knowledge of truth . our author knows full well , what a facile work i have now lying in view ; what an easie thing it were to go over most of the opinions of the present church of rome , and most , if not all their practises in worship , and to manifest their vast distance from the doctrine , practise , and principles of that church of old . but , though this were really a more serious work , and more useful , and much more accommodated to the nature of the whole difference between us , more easie and pleasant to my self then the persuit of this odd rambling chase that by following of him i am engaged in ; yet , lest he should pretend , that this would be a division into common places , such as he hath purposely avoided , ( and that not unwisely , that he might ●●ve advantage all along to take for gra●●●d , that which he knew to be principally in question between us ) i shall dismiss that business , and only attend unto that great proof of this assertion , which himself thought meet to shut up his book withall , as that which was fit to pin down the basket , and to keep close and safe , all the long bill'd birds , that he hoped to lime-twig by his preceding rhetorick and sophistry . it is in pag. , . though i hope i am not contentious , nor have any other hatred against popery then what becomes an honest man to have against that which he is perswaded to be so ill as popery must needs be , if it be ill at all ; yet upon his request , i have seriously pondered his queries ( a captious way of disputing ) , and falling now in my way , do return him this answer unto them . . the supposition on which all his ensuing queries are founded , must be rightly stated , its termes freed from ambiguity , and the whole from equivocation : which a word or two , unto , first , the subject ; and then , secondly , the predicate of the proposition , or what is attributed unto the subject spoken of ; and thirdly , the proof of the whole ; will suffice to do . the thesis laid down is this , the church of rome , was once a most pure , excellent , flourishing and mother church : this , good st. paul amply testifies in his epistle to them , and is acknowledged by protestants . the subject is the church of rome . and this may be taken either for the church that was founded in rome , in the apostles dayes , consisting of believers , with those that had their rule and oversight in the lord ; or it may be taken for the church of rome , in the sense of latter ages , consisting of the pope its head , and cardinals , principal members , with all the jurisdiction dependent on them , and way of worship established by them , and their authority ; or , that collection of men throughout the world , that yield obedience to the pope in their several places and subordinations according to the rules by him and his authority given unto them . that which is attributed to this church , is , that it was once a most pure , excellent , flourishing , and mother-church ; all , it seems , in the superlative degree . i will not contend about the purity , excellency , or flourishing of that church ; the boasting of the superlativeness of that purity and excellency , seems to be borrowed from that of revel . . . but we shall not exagitate that , in that church , which it would never have affirmed of it self , because it is fallen out to be the interest of some men in these latter dayes to talk at such a rate , as primitive humility was an utter stranger unto . i somewhat guess at what he means by a mother-church ; for , though the scripture knows no such thing , but only appropriates that title to hierusalem that was above , which is said to be the mother of us all , gal. . . which i suppose is not rome , ( and i also think that no man can have two mothers , ) nor did purer antiquity ever dream of any such mother , yet the vogue of latter dayes , hath made this expression not only passable in the world , but sacred and unquestionable ; i shall only say , that in the sense wherein it is by some understood , the old roman church could lay no more claim unto it , then most other churches in the world , and not so good as some others could . the proof of this assertion , lies first on the testimony of st. paul , and then on the acknowledgement of protestants ; first , good st. paul , he says , amply testifies this in his epistle to the romans . this , what i pray ? that the then roman church was a mother church : not a word in all the epistle of any such matter . nay , as i observed before , thogh he greatly commends the faith and holiness of many believers , jews and gentiles , that were at rome ; yet he makes mention of no church there , but only of a little assembly that used to meet at aquila's house ; nor doth st. paul give any testimony at all to the roman church in the latter sense of that expression . is there any thing in his epistle of the pope , cardinals , patriarchs , & c ? any thing of their power , and rule over other churches , or christians , not living at rome ? is there any one word in that epistle about that which the papists make the principal ingredient in their definition of the church , namely , subjection to the pope ? what then is the this that good st. paul so amply testifies unto , in his epistle to the romans ? why this and this only ; that , when he wrote this epistle to rome , there were then living in that city , sundry good , and holy men , believing in christ jesus , according to the gospel , and making profession of the faith that is in him ; but , that these men should live there to the end of the world , he says not , nor do we find that they do . the acknowledgement of protestants , is next , to as little purpose , insisted on . they acknowledge a pure and flourishing church to have been once at rome , as they maintain there was at hierusalem , antioch , ephesus , smyrna , laodicea , alexandria , babylon , &c. that in all these places , such churches do still continue , they deny , and particularly at rome . for that church which then was , they deny it to be the same that now is ; at least , any more then argo was the same ship as when first built , after there was not one plank or pin of its first structure remaining . that the church of rome , in the latter sense , was ever a pure flourishing church , never any protestant acknowledged ; the most of them deny it ever to have been in that sense , any church at all ; and those that grant it , to retain the essential constituting principals of a church ; yet averr , that as it is , so it ever was , since it had a being , very far from a pure and flourishing church . for ought then , that i can perceive , we are not at all concerned in the following queries ; the supposition they are all built upon , being partly sophistical , and partly false . but yet , because he doth so earnestly request us to ponder them , we shall not give him cause to complain of us , in this particular at least , ( as he doth in general of all protestants ) — that we deal uncivilly ; and therefore shall pass through them ; after which , if he pleaseth , he may deliver them to his friend of whom they were borrowed . . saith he , this church could not cease to be such , but she must fall either by apostacy , heresy , or schism : but who told him so ? might she not cease to be , and so consequently to be such ? might not the persons of whom it consisted , have been destroyed by an earthquake , as it happen'd to laodicea ? or by the sword , as it befel the church of the jews , or twenty other wayes ? besides , might she not fall by idolatry , or false worship , or by prophaneness , or licentiouss of conversation , contrary to the whole rule of christ ? that then he may know what is to be removed by his queries , if he should speak any thing to the purpose , he may do well to take notice , that this is the dogme of protestants concerning the church of rome ; that the church planted there pure , did by degrees in a long tract of time , fall by apostacy , idolatry , heresie , schism , and profaneness of life , into that condition wherein now it is . but , sayes he , . not by apostacy ; for that is not only a renouncing of the faith of christ , but the very name and title of christianity ; and no man will say that the church of rome had ever such a fall , or fell thus . i tell you truly , sir , your church is very much beholding unto men , if they do not sometimes say very hard things of her fall. had it been an ordinary slip , or so , it might have been passed over ; but this falling into the mire , and wallowing in it for so many ages , as she has done , is in truth a very naughty business . for my part , i am resolved , to deal as gently with her as possible ; and therefore say , that there is a total apostasie from christianity , which she fell not into , or by ; and there is a partial apostasie in christianity , from some of the principles of it , such as st. paul charged on the galatians ; and the old fathers on very many that yet retained the name and title of christians , and this , we say plainly , that she fell by ; she fell by apostasie from many of the most material principles of the gospel , both as to faith , life , and worship . and there being no reply made upon this instan●e , were it not upon the account of pure civility , we need not proceed any further with his queries , the business of them being come to an end . but , upon his entreaty , we will follow him a little further : supposing , that he hath dispatched the business of apostasie , he comes to heresie , and tells us ; that it is an adhesion to some private or singular opinion , or error , in faith ; contrary to the general approved doctrine of the church ; that which ought to be subsumed , is , that the church of rome did never adhere to any singular opinion or error in faith , contrary to the general approved doctrine of the church ; but our author , to cover his business , changes the terms in his proceeding , into the christian world ; to clear this to us a little , i desire to know of him , what church he means , when he speaks of the approved doctrine of the church ? i am sure , he will say , the roman-catholick church ; and , if i ask him , what age it is , of that church which he intends , he will also say , that age which is present , when the opinions mentioned , are asserted , contrary to the approved doctrine . we have then obtained his meaning , viz. the roman-church did never at any time adhere to any opinion , but what the roman - church at that time adhered unto ; or taught , or approved , no other doctrine , but what it taught and approved . now , i verily believe this to be true , and he must be somewhat besides uncivil , that shall deny it . but from hence to infer , that the roman-church , never fell from her first purity by heresie ; that is a thing i cannot yet discern , how it may be made good . this conclusion ariseth out of that pitiful definition of heresie he gives us , coyned meerly to serve the roman-interest . the rule of judging heresie is made the approved doctrine of the church ; i would know of what church : of this or that particular church , or of the catholick ? doubtless the catholick must be pretended . i ask , of this or that age , or of the first ? of the first certainly . i desire then to know , how we may come to discern infallibly what was the approved doctrine of the catholick-church of old , but only by the scriptures ; which we know it unanimously embraced as given unto it by christ , for its rule of faith and worship . if we should then grant , that the approved doctrine of the church , were that which a departure from , as such , gives formality unto heresie ; yet there is no way to know that doctrine but by the scripture . but yet neither can or ought this to be granted . the formal reason of heresie , in the usual acceptation of the word , ariseth from its deviation from the scripture as such , which is the rule of the churches doctrine , and of the opinions that are contrary unto it . nor yet is every private or singular opinion contrary to the scripture , or the doctrine of the church , presently an heresie . that is not the sense of the word , either in scripture or antiquity . so that the foundation of the queries about heresie is not one jot better layed , then that was about apostasie , which went before . this is that which i have heard protestants say ; namely , that the church of rome doth adhere to very many opinions and errors in faith , contrary to the main principles of christian religion delivered in the scripture , and so , consequently , the doctrine approved by the catholick church ; and , if this be to fall by heresie , i add , that she is thus fallen also from what she was . but then he asks . by what general council was she ever condemned ? . which of the fathers ever wrote against her ? . by what authority was she otherwise reproved ? but this is all one , as if a thief arraigned for stealing before a judge , and the goods that he had stoln found upon him , should plead for himself and say ; if ever i stole any thing , then by what lawful judge was i ever condemned ? what officer of the state did ever , formerly , apprehend me ? by what authority were writs issued out against me ? were it not easie for the judge to reply , and tell him ; friend , these allegations may prove , that you were never before condemned , but they prove not at all , that you never stole ; which is a matter of fact that you are now upon your tryal for . no more will it at all follow , that the church of rome did never offend , because she is not condemned . these things may be necessary that she may be said to be legally convicted , but not at all to prove , that she is really guilty . besides , the truth is , that many of her doctrines and practises are condemned by general councils , and most of them by the most learned fathers , and all of them by the authority of the scripture . and whilst her doctrine and worship is so condemned , i see not well how she can escape ; so that this second way also she is fallen . . to apostasie and heresie she hath also added the guilt of schism in an high degree . for , schisms within her self , and her great schism from all the christian world besides her self , are things well known to all that know her . her intestine schisms were the shame of christendom , her schisms in respect of others the ruin of it . and briefly , to answer the triple query we are so earnestly invited to the consideration of , i shall need to instance only in that one particular of making , subjection to the pope in all things , the tessera & rule of all church-communion , whereby she hath left the company of all the churches of christ in the world besides her self , is gone forth and departed from all apostolical churches ; even that of old rome its self ; and the true church , which she hath forsaken , abides and is preserved in all the societies of christians throughout the earth , who attending to the scripture for their only rule and guide , do believe what is therein revealed , and worship god accordingly . so that notwithstanding any thing here offered to the contrary , it is very possible , that the present church of rome , may be fallen from her primitive condition by apostasie , heresie , and schism , which indeed she is ; and worst of all , by idolatry , which our author thought meet to pass over in silence . iv. it is frequently pleaded by our author ( nor is there any thing which he more triumphs in ) that all things as to religion were quiet and in peace ; all men in union and agreement amongst themselves in the worship of god , before the departure made by our fore-fathers from the roman - see. no man that hath once cast an eye upon the defensatives written by the antient christians , but knows how this very consideration was managed and improved against them by their pagan impugners . that christians by their introduction of a new way of worshipping god , which their fore-fathers knew not , had disturbed the peace of humane society , divided the world into seditious factions , broken all the antient bonds of peace and amity , dissolved the whole harmony of man-kinde's agreement amongst themselves , was the subject of the declamations of their adversaries . this complaint , their books , their schools , the courts and judicatories were filled with ; against all which clamors , and violences that were stirred up against them by their means , those blessed souls armed themselves with patience , and the testimony of their consciences , that they neither did , nor practised any thing that in its own nature had a tendency to the least of those evils , which they and their way of worshipping god , was reproached with . as they had the opportunity indeed , they let their adversaries know , that that peace and union they boasted of , in their religion , before the entrance of christianity , was but a conspiracy against god , a consent in error and falsehood , and brought upon the world by the craft of satan , maintained through the effectual influence of innumerable prejudices upon the innate blindness and darkness of their hearts , that upon the appearance of light , and publishing of the truth , divisions , animosities , troubles , and distractions did arise ; they declared to have been no proper or necessary effect of the work , but a consequent , occasional , and accidental , arising from the lusts of men , who loved darkness more then light , because their works were evil , which that it would ensue , their blessed master had long before fore-told them , and fore-warned them . though this be enough , yet it is not all , that may be replyed unto this old pretence , and plea , as mannaged to the purpose of our adversaries . it is part of the motive , which the great historian makes galgacus , the valiant brittain , use to his countrey-men , to cast off the roman-yoke ; solitudinem ubi fecerunt , pacem vocant . it was their way , when they had by force and cruelty layed all waste before them , to call the remaining solitude and desolation , by the goodly name of peace ; neither considered they , whether the residue of men had either satisfaction in their minds , or advantage by their rule . nor was the peace of the roman-church any other before the reformation . what waste they had , by sword and burnings , made in several parts of europe , in almost all the chiefest nations of it , of mankind ; what desolation they had brought by violence upon those who opposed their rule , or questioned their doctrine ; the blood of innumerable poor men , many of them learned , all pious and zealous , whom they called waldenses , albigenses , lollards , wicklevites , hussites , caliptives , subutraguians , picards , or what else they pleased , ( being indeed the faithful witnesses of the lord christ and his truths ) will at the last day reveal . besides , the event declared , how remote the minds of millions ▪ were from an acquiescency in that conspiracy in the papal soveraignty , which was grown to be the bond of communion amongst those who called themselves the church , or an approbation of that doctrine and worship which they made profession of . for no sooner was a door of liberty and light opened unto them , but whole nations were at strife who should first enter in at it ; which undoubtedly , all the nations of europe had long since done , had not the holy wise god in his good providence suffered in some of them a sword of power and violence to interpose it self against their entrance . for , whatever may be pretended of peace and agreement to this day , take away force and violence , prisons and fagots , and in one day , the whole compages of that stupendious fabrick of the papacy , will be dissolved ; and the life , which will be maintained in it , springing only from secular advantages and inveterate prejudices , would together with them decay , and disappear . neither can any thing , but a confidence of the ignorance of men in all things that are past , yea , in what was done almost by their own grandsyres , give countenance to a man in his own silent thoughts , for such insinuations of quietness in the world before the reformation . the wars , seditions , rebellions , and tumults , ( to omit private practises ) that were either raised , occasioned , and countenanced by the pope's absolving subjects from their allegiance , kings and states from their oaths given mutually for the securing of peace between them , all in the pursuit of their own worldly interests , do fill up a good part of the stories of some ages before the reformation . what ever then is pretended , things were not so peaceable and quiet in those dayes , as they are now represented to men that mind only things that are present ; nor was their agreement their vertue , but their sin and misery ; being centred in blindness and ignorance , and cemented with bloud . v. that the first reformers were most of them sorry contemptible persons , whose errors were propagated by indirect means , and entertained for sinister ends ; is in several places of this book alledged , and consequences pretended thence to ensue , urged and improved . but the truth is , the more contemptible the persons were that begun the work , the greater glory and lustre is reflected on the work it self ; which points out to an higher cause then any appeared outwardly for the carrying of it on . it is no small part of the gospels glory , that being promulgated by persons whom the world looked on with the greatest contempt and scorn imaginable , as men utterly destitute of whatever was by them esteemed noble or honourable ; it prevailed notwithstanding in the minds of men , to eradicate the inveterate prejudices received by tradition from their fathers ; to overthrow the antient and outward glorious worship of the nations ; and to bring them into subjection unto christ. neither can any thing be written with more contempt and scorn , nor with greater under-valuation of the abilities , or outward condition of the first reformers , then was spoken and written by the greatest and wisest and learnedst of men of old , concerning the preachers and planters of christianity . should i but repeat the biting sarcasms , contemptuous reproaches and scorns wherewith , with plausible pretences , the apostles and those that followed them in their work of preaching the gospel were entertained by celsus , lucian , porphyry , julian , hierocles , with many more , men learned and wise ; i could easily manifest how short our new masters come of them in facetious wit , beguiling eloquence , and fair pretences , when they seek by stories , jestings , calumnies , and false reports , to expose the first reformers to the contempt and scorn of men , who know nothing of them but their names , and those as covered with all the dirt they can possibly cast upon them . but i intend not to tempt the atheistical wits of any , to an approbation of their sin , by that complyance which the vain fancies of such men do usually afford them , in the contemplation of the wit and ingenuity , as they esteem it , of plausible calumnies . the scripture may be heard ; that abundantly testifies , that the character given of the first reformers as men , poor , unlearned , seeking to advantage themselves by the troubling of others , better , greater and wiser than they , in their religion , was received of the apostles , evangelists , and other christians in the first budding of christianity . but the truth is , all these are but vain pretences ; those knew of old , and these do now , that the persons whom they vilifie and scorn , were eminently fitted of god for the work that they were called unto . the receiving of their opinions for sinisters end , reflects principally on this kingdom of england ; and must do so , whilst the surmises of a few interested fryers shall be believed by english-men , before the solemn protestation of so renowned a king , as he was , who first casheer'd the popes authority in this nation ; for , what he being alive avowed on his royal word , and vowed as in the sight of the almighty god , was an effect of light and conscience in him , they will needs have to be a consequent of his lust and levity . and what honour it is to the royal government of this nation , to have those who swayed the scepter of it , but a few years ago , publickly traduced and exposed to obloquy by the libellous pens of obscure and unknown persons , wise men may be easily able to judge . this i am sure , there is little probability that they should have any real regard or reverence for the present rulers , farther then they find , or hope that they shall have their countenance and assistance for the furtherance of their private interest , who so revile their predecessors , for acting contrary unto it ; and this loyalty the kings majesty may secure himself of , from the most seditious fanatick in the nation ; so highly is he beholding to these men , for their duty and obedience . vi. that our departure from rome hath been the cause of all our evils , and particularly of all those divisions , which are at this day found amongst protestants , and which have been since the reformation , is a supposition , that not only insinuates it self into the hidden sophistry of our authors discourse , but is also every where spread over the face of it ; with as little truth , or advantage to his purpose , as those that went before . so the pagans judged the primitive christians , so also did the jews , and do to this day . here is no new task lyes before us . the answers given of old to them , and yet continued to be given , will suffice to these men also . the truth is , our divisions are not the effect of our leaving rome ; but of our being there . in the apostasie of that church came upon men all that darkness , and all those prejudices , which cause many needless divisions amongst them . and is it any wonder , that men , partly ledd , partly driven out of the right way , and turned a clean contrary course for sundry generations , should upon liberty obtained to return to their old paths , somewhat vary in their choice of particular tracts , though they all agree to travail towards the same place , and in general , steer their course accordingly . besides , let men say what they please , the differences amongst the protestants that are purely religious , are no other but such as ever were , and , take away external force , ever will be amongst the best of men , whilst they know but in part ; however they may not be mannaged with that prudence and moderation , which it is our duty to use in and about them . were not the consequences of our differences , which arise meerly from our solly and sin , of more important consideration then our differences themselves , i should very little value the one or the other ; knowing that none of them in their own nature are such , as to impeach either our present tranquillity , or future happiness . so that , neither are the divisions that are among protestants in themselves of any importance , nor were they occasioned by their departure from rome . that all men are not made perfectly wise , nor do know all things perfectly , is partly a consequent of their condition in this world , partly , a fruit of their own lusts , and corruptions ; neither to be imputed to the religion which they profess , nor to the rule that they pretend to follow . had all those who could not continue in the profession of the errors , and practise of the worship of the church of rome , and were therefore driven out by violence and bloud from amongst them , been as happy in attending to the rule that they chose for their guidance and direction , as they were wise in choosing it ; they had had no other differences among them than what necessarily follow their concreated different constitutions , complexions , and capacities . it is not the work of religion in this world wholly to dispel mens darkness ; nor absolutely to eradicate their distempers ; somewhat must be left for heaven : and that more is than ought to be , is the fault of men , and not of the truth they profess . that religion which reveals a sufficient rule to guide men into peace , union , and all necessary truth , is not to be blamed , if men in all things follow not it's direction . nor are the differences amongst the protestants , greater than those amongst the members of the roman-church . the imputation of the errors and miscarriages of the socinians and quakers unto protestancy , is of no other nature then that of pagans of old , charging the follies , and abominations of the gnosticks and valentinians on christianity . for those that are truly called protestants , whose concurrence in the same confession of faith , as to all material points , is sufficient to cast them under one denomination , what evils i wonder are to be found amongst them as to divisions , that are not conspicuous to all in the papacy ? the princes and nations of their profession are , or have all been engaged in mortal fewds and wars one against another , all the world over . their divines write , as stiffly one against another , as men can do : mutual accusations of pernitious doctrines and practises abound amongst them . i am not able to guess what place will hold the books written about their intestine differences , as our author doth concerning those that are written by protestants against the papacy ; but this i know , all publick libraries and private studies of learned men abound with them . their invectives , apologies , accusations , charges , underminings of one another , are part of the weekly news of these dayes . our author knows well enough what i mean. nor are these the ways and practises of private men , but of whole societies and fraternities ; which , if they are in truth , such as they are by each other represented to be ; it would be the interest of mankind , to seek the suppression and extermination of some of them . i profess , i wonder , whilst their own house is so visibly on fire , that they can find leisure to scold at others for not quenching theirs . nor is the remaining agreement that they boast of , one jot better , than either their own dissentions , or ours . it is not union or agreement amongst men absolutely , that is to be valued . simeon and levi never did worse , then when they agreed best ; and were brethren in evil . the grounds and reasons of mens agreement , with the nature of the things wherein they are agreed , are that which make it either commendable or desirable . should i lay forth what these are in the papacy , our author i fear would count me unmannerly , and uncivil ; but yet because the matter doth so require , i must needs tell him , that many wise men do affirm , that ignorance , inveterate prejudice , secular advantages , and external force , are the chief constitutive principles of that union and agreement which remains amongst them . but whatever their evils be , it is pretended , that they have a remedy at hand for them all : but , vii . that we have no remedy of our evils , no means of ending our differences , but by a returnal to the roman see. whether there be any way to end differences among our selves , as farr , and as soon , as there is any need they should be ended , will be afterwards enquired into . this i know , that a returnal unto r●me will not do it ; unless when we come thither , we can learn to behave our selves better , then those do , who are there already ; and there is indeed no party of men in the world , but can give us as good security of ending our differences as the romanists . if we would all turn quakers , it would end our disputes ; and that is all that is provided us , if we will turn papists . this is the language of every party ; and for my part i think they believe what they say ; come over to us , and we shall all agree . only the romanists are likely to obtain least credit as to this matter among wise men , because they cannot agree among themselves ; and are as unfit to umpire the differences of other men , as philip of macedon was to quiet greece , whilst he , his wife and children ▪ were together by the ears at home . but why have not protestants a remedy for their evils , a means of ending and making up their differences ? they have the word that 's left them for that purpose , which the apostles commended unto them , and which the primitive church made use of , and no other . that this will not serve to prevent , or remove any hurtful differences from amongst us , it is not its fault , but ours . and could we prevail with roman-catholicks to blame and reprove us , and not to blame the religion we profess , we should count our selves beholding to them ; and they would have the less to answer for , another day . but as things are stated , it is fallen out very unhappily for them ; that finding they cannot hurt us , but that their weapons must pass through the scriptures , that is it which they are forced to direct their blowes against . the scripture is dark , obscure , insufficient , cannot be known to be the word of god , nor understood , is the main of their plea , when they intend to deal with protestants . i am perswaded , that they are troubled , when they are put upon this work : it cannot be acceptable to the minds of men to be engag'd in such undervaluations of the word of god. sure , they can have no other mind in this work , than a man would have in pulling down hi● house , to find out his enemy . he that shall read what the scripture testifies of it self , that is , what god doth of it ; & what the antients speak concerning it , and shall himself have any acquaintance with the nature and excellency of it , must needs shrink extreamly when he comes to see the romanists discourse about it ; indeed , against it . for my part , i can truly profess , that no one thing doth so alienate my mind from the present roman religion , as this treatment of the word of god. i cannot but think that a sad profession of religion , which enforceth men to decry the use and excellency of that , which ( let them pretend what they please ) is the only infallible revelation of all that truth , by obedience whereunto , we become christians . i do heartily pity learned and ingenious men , when i see them enforced by a private corrupt interest , to engage in this woful work of undervaluing the word of god ; and so much the more , as that i cannot but hope , that it is a very ingrateful work to themselves : did they delight in it , i should have other thoughts of them ; and conclude , that there are more atheists in the world , than those whom our author informs us ▪ to be lately turned so in england . this then is the remedy that protestants have for their evils : this the means of making up all their differences ; which they might do every day , so far as in this world it is possible that that work should be done amongst men , if it were not their own fault : that they do not so , blame them still , blame them soundly , lay on reproofs till i cry , hold : but let not , i pray , the word of god be blamed any more . methinks i could beg this of a catholick , especially of my countrey-men , that whatever they say to protestants , or however they deal with them , they would let the scripture alone , and not decry its worth and usefulness : it is not protestants book , it is gods ; who hath only granted them an use of it , in common with the rest of men : and what is spoken in disparagement of it , doth not reflect on them , but on him that made it , and sent it to them . it is no policy , i confess , to discover our secrets to our adversaries , whereby they may prevent their own disadvantages for the future : but yet because i look not on the romanists as absolute enemies , i shall let them know for once , that when protestants come to that head of their disputes or orations , wherein they contend that the scripture is so , and so , obscure and insufficient , they generally take great contentment , to find that their religion cannot be opposed , without casting down the word of god from its excellency , and enthroning somewhat else in the room of it . let them make what use of this they please , i could not but tell it them for their good , and i know it to be true . for the present it comes too late . for , another main principle of our authors discourse is , viii . that the scripture on sundry accounts is insufficient to settle us in the truth of religion , or to bring us to an agreement amongst our selves ; and that . because it is not to be known to be the word of god , but by the testimony of the roman church . and then . cannot be well translated into any vulgar language . and is also . in its self obscure . and . we have no way to determine of what is its proper sense . atqui hic est nigrae sumus caliginis , haec est aerugo mera . i suppose they will not tell a pagan or a mahumetan this story : at least i heartily wish that men would not suffer themselves to be so far transported by their private interest , as to forget the general concernments of christianity . we cannot , say they , know the scripture to be the word of god , but by the authority of the church of rome : and all men may easily assure themselves , that no man had ever known there was such a thing as a church ; much less that it had any authority , but by the scripture . and whither this tends , is easie to guess . but it will not enter into my head , that we cannot know or believe the scripture to be the word of god , any otherwise than on the authority of the church of rome : the greatest part of it , was believed to be so , before there was any church at rome at all ; and all of it is so by millions in the world , who make no account of that church at all . now some say , there is such a church . i wish men would leave perswading us , that we do not believe what we know we do believe ; or that we cannot do that , which we know we do , and see that millions besides our selves do so too . there are not many nations in europe , wherein there are not thousands who are ready to lay down their lives to give testimony , that the scripture is the word of god , that care not a rush for the authority of the present church of rome : and what further evidence they can give that they believe so , i know not . and this they do , upon that innate evidence , that the word of god hath in it self , and gives to its self , the testimony of christ , and his apostles , and the teaching of the church of god in all ages . i must needs say , there is not any thing for which protestants are so much beholding to the roman catholicks as this , that they have with so much importunacy cast upon them the work of proving the scripture to be of divine original , or to have been given by inspiration from god. it is as good a work , as a man can well be imployed in : and there is not any thing i should more gladly en professo ingage in , if the nature of my present business would bear such a diversion . our author would quickly see what an easie task it were , to remove those his reproches of a private spirit , of an inward testimony , of our own reason ; which himself knowing the advantage they afford him amongst vulgar unstudied men , trisles withal . both romanists , and protestants , as far as i can learn , do acknowledge , that the grace of the spirit , is necessary to enable a man to believe savingly , the scripture to be the word of god , upon what testimony or authority soever that faith is founded , or resolved into . now this with protestants is no private whisper , no enthusiasm , no reason of their own , no particular testimony , but the most open , noble , known that is , or can be in the world ; even the voice of god himself , speaking publickly to all , in and by the scripture , evidencing it self by its own divine , innate light , and excellency , taught , confirmed , and testified unto , by the church in all ages ; especially the first , founded by christ and his apostles . he that looks for better , or other testimony , witness , or foundation to build his faith upon , may search till dooms-day without success . he that renounceth this , shakes the very root of christianity , and opens a door to atheism and paganism . this was the anchor of christians of old , from which neither the storms of persecution could drive them , nor the subtilty of disputations entise them . for men to come now in the end of the world , and to tell us , that we must rest in the authority of the present church of rome , in our receiving the scripture to be the word of god ; and then to tell us , that that church hath all its authority by , and from , the scripture ; and to know well enough all the while , that no man can know there is any church , or any church authority , but by the scripture , is to speak daggers and swords to us , upon a confidence that we will suffer our selves to be befooled , that we may have the after-pleasure of making others like our selves . of the translation of the scripture into vulgar tongues , i shall expresly treat afterwards , and therefore here passe it over . . it s obscurity is another thing insisted on , and highly exaggerated by our author . and this is another thing that i greatly wonder at : for as wise as these gentlemen would be thought to be , he that has but half an eye , may discern , that they consider not with whom they have to do in this matter . the scripture i suppose , they will grant to be given by inspiration from god ; if they deny it , we are ready to prove it at any time . i suppose also that they will grant , that the end why god gave it , was , that it might be a revelation of himself , so far as it was needful for us to know him , and his mind , and will , so that we may serve him . if this were not the end for which god gave his word unto us , i wish they would acquaint us with some other . i think it was not , that it might be put into a cabinet , and lock'd up in a chest : if this were the end of it ; then god intended in it , to make a revelation of himself , so far as it was necessary we should know of him , and his mind , and will , that we might serve him . for that which is any one end of any thing , or matter , that he intends , which is the author of it : now if god intended to make such a revelation on of himself , his mind , and will , in giving of the scripture , as was said ; he hath either done it plainly , that is , without any such obscurity , as should frustrate him of his end , or he hath not ; and that because either he would not , or he could not : i wish i knew which of these it was , that the roman catholicks do fix upon ; it would spare me the labour of speaking to the other : but seeing i do not ; that they may have no evasion , i will consider them both . if they say , it was because he could not make any such plain discovery and revelation of himself , then this is that they say : that god intending to reveal himself , his mind , & will , plainly in the scripture to the sons of men , was not able to do it , and therefore failed in his design : this works but little to the glory of his omnipotency , and omnisciency . but to let that pass , wherein men ( so they may compass their own ends ) seem not to be much concerned : i desire to know , whether this plain sufficient revelation of god , be made any other way , or no ? if no otherwise , then , as i confess we are all in the dark ; so it is to no purpose to blame the scripture of obscurity , seeing it is as lightsom as any thing else is , or can be . if this revelation be made some other way , it must be by god himself , or some body else : that any other should be supposed in good earnest to do that which god cannot ( though i know how some canonists have jested about the pope ) i think will not be pleaded : if god then hath done this another way , i desire to know the true reason why he could not do it this way ; namely , by the scripture , and therefore desisted from his purpose ? but it may be thought god could make a revelation of himself , his mind , and will , in and by the scripture , yet he would not do it plainly , but obscurely : let us then see what we mean by plainly in this business . we intend not , that every text in scripture is easie to be understood ; nor that all the matter of it is easie to be apprehended : we know that there are things in it hard to be understood , things to exercise the minds of the best , and wisest of men unto diligence , and when they have done their utmost , unto reverence . but this is that we mean by plainly ; the whole will & mind of god , with whatever is needful to be known of him , is revealed in the scripture , without such ambiguity or obscurity , as should hinder the scripture from being a revelation of him , his mind , and will ; to the end , that we may know him , and live unto him . to say that god would not do this , would not make such a revelation ( besides the reflection that it casts on his goodness and wisdom ) is indeed to say , that he would not do that , which we say he would do . the truth is , all the harangues we meet withal about the obscurity of the scripture , are direct arraignments of the wisdom and goodness of god. and if i were worthy to advise my roman-catholick-countreymen , i would perswade them to desist from this enterprize ; if not in piety , at least in policy : for , i can assure them , as i think i have done already , that all their endeavours for the extenuation of the worth , excellency , fullness , sufficiency of the scripture , do exceedingly confirm protestants in the truth of their present perswasion ; which they see cannot be touched , but by such horrible applications as they detest . . but yet they say , scripture is not so clear , but that it needs interpretation ; and protestants have none to interpret it , so as to make it a means of ending differences , i confess , the interpretation of scripture is a good and necessary work ; and i know , that he who was dead , and is alive for ever , continues to give gifts unto men , according to his promise , to enable them to interpret the scripture , for the edification of his body the church . if there were none of these interpreters among the protestants , i wonder whence it is come to pass , that his comments on , and interpretations of scripture , who is most hated by romanists of all the protestants that ever were in the world , are so borrowed , and used ( that i say not stollen ) by so many of them : and that indeed what is praise-worthy in any of their church , in the way of exposition of scripture , is either borrowed from protestants , or done in imitation of them . if i am called on for instances in this kind , i shall give them , i am perswaded , to some mens amazement , who are less conversant in these things . but we are besides the matter : it is of an infallible interpreter , in wh●se expositions and determinations of scripture-sense , all christians are obliged to acquiesce , and such an one you have none . i confess we have not , if it be such an one as you intend ; whose expositions and interpretations we must acquiesce in : not because they are true , but because they are his . we have infallible expositions of the scripture in all necessary truths , as we are assured from the scripture it self : but an infallible expositor , into whose authority our faith should be resolved , besides the scripture it self , we have none : nor do i think they have any at rome , what-ever they talk of to men that were never there ; nor ( i suppose ) do they believe it themselves : for indeed if they do , i know not how they can be freed , from being thought to be strangely distempered , if not stark mad : for not to talk of the tower of london , this i am sure of , that we have whole cart loads of comments and expositions on the scripture , written by members of the church , men of all orders and degrees ; and he that has cast an eye upon them , knows , that a great part of their large volumes , are spent in confuting the expositions of one another , and those that went before them . now wh●t a madness is this , or childishness , above that of very children , to lye swaggering and contending one with another , before all the world , with fallible mediums about the sense of scripture , and giving expositions , which no man is bound to acquiesce in , any further than he sees reason ; whilst all this while they have one amongst them , who can infallibly interpret all ; and that with such an authority , as all men are bound to rest in , and contend no further ? and the further mischief of it is , that of all the rest , this man is alwayes silent , as to exposition of scripture , who alone is able to part the fray . there be two things , which i think verily , if i were a papist , i should never like in the pope ; because methinks they argue a great deal of want of good nature : the one is ( that we treat about ) that he can see his children so fiercely wrangle about the sense of scripture , & yet will not give out what is the infallible meaning of every place , at least that is controverted , and so stint the strife amongst them , seeing it seems he can if he would . and the other is , that he suffers so many souls to lye in purgatory , when he may let them forth if he please ; and ( that i know of ) hath received no order to the contrary . but the truth is , that neither the romanists , nor we , have any infallible living judge , in whose determination of the sense of scripture , all men should be bound to acqu●esce , upon the account of his authority : this is all the difference : we openly profess we have none such , and betake us to that which we have , which is better for us ; they pretending they have , yet acting constantly as if they had not , and as indeed they have not ; maintain a perpetual inconsistency , and contradiction between their pretentions , and their practice . the holy ghost , speaking in and by the scripture , using the ministry of men furnished by himself , with gifts and abilities , and lawfully called to the work ▪ for the oral declaration , or other expositions of his mind , is that which the protestants cleave unto , for the interpreting of the scripture ; which its self discovers , when infallible . and if papists can tell me of a better way , i will quickly imbrace it . i suppose i may , upon the considerations we have had of the reasons offered to prove the insufficiency of scripture , to settle us in the truth , & to end our differences , conclude their insufficiency to any such purpose . we know , the scripture was given us , to settle us in the truth , and to end our differences ; we know , it is profitable to that end and purpose , and able to make us wise to salvation . if we find not these effects wrought in our selves , it is our own fault ; and i desire that for hereafter , we may bear our own blame , without such reflections on the holy word of the infinitely blessed god. ix . we are come at length unto the pope , of whom we are told , that he is a good man , one that seeks nothing but our good , that never did us harm , but has the care , and inspection of us committed unto him by christ. for my part , i am glad to hear such news of him , and should be more glad to find it to be true . our forefathers and predecessors in the faith we profess , found it otherwise . all the harm that could be done unto them , by ruining their families , destroying their estates , imprisoning , and torturing their persons , and lastly , burning their bodies in fire , they received at his hands . if the alteration pretended , be not from the shortning of his power , but the change of his mind and will , i shall be very glad to hear of it . for the present , i confess , i had rather take it for granted , whilest he is at this distance , than see him trusted with power , for the tryal of his will. i never heard of much of his repentance , for the blood of those thousands that hath been shed by his authority , and in his cause ; which makes me suspect , he may be somewhat of the same mind still , as he was . time was , when the very worst of popes exhausted more treasure out of this nation , to spend it ab●oad to their own ends , th●● some a●e willing to grant to the best of kings , to spend at home for their goods . i● may be , he is changed , as to this design also , but i do not know it ; nor is any p●oof offered of it , by our autho● . let us deal plainly one with another , and ( without telling us , that the pope never did us harm , which is not the way to make us believe , that he will not ; because it makes us suspect , that all we have suffered from him , is thought no harm ) let h●m tell us how he will assure us , that if this good pope get us into his power again , he will not burn us , as he did our fore-fathers , unless we submit our consciences unto him in all things ; that he will not find out wayes to draw the treasure out of the n●tion , nor absolve subjects from their allegiance , nor excommunicate , or attempt the deposition of our kings , or the giving away of their kingdoms , as he has done in former dayes ? that these things he hath done , we know ; that he hath repented of them , and changed his mind thereupon , we know not . to have any thing to do with him , whilst he continues in such distempers is not only against the principles of religion , but of common prudence also . for my par● , i cannot but fear , until i see security tendered of this change in the pope , that all the good words that are given us concerning him , are but baits to enveigle us into his power ; and to tell you the truth terrent vestigia . how the pope imployes himself in seeking our good , which our author paints out unto us , i know not ; when i see the effects of it , i shall be thankful for it . in the mean time , being so great a stranger to rome , as i am , i must needs say , i know nothing that he does , but seek to destroy us , body and soul. our author pleads indeed , that the care and inspection of our condition , is committed to him by christ : but he attempts not to prove it , which i somewhat marvel at : for having professedly deserted the old way of pleading the catholick cause and interest , ( which i presume he did , upon conviction of its insufficiency ) whereas he is an ingenious person he could not but know , that pasce ove● meas , tu es petrus , tibi dabo claves , are as weak parts of the old plea , as any made use of ; belonging nothing at all to the thing , whereunto they are applyed ; it is somewhat strange , that he would substitute no new proofs in their room . but , it seems , it is not every ones h●p , with him of old , to want opinions sometimes , but no arguments . when he has got proofs to his purpose , we will again attend unto him : in the mean time , in this case shall only mind him , that the taking for granted in disputations , that which should principally be proved , h●s got an ill name amongst learned men , being commonly called begging . x. the last principle which i have observed , diffusing its influences throughout the whole discourse , is , that the devotion of catholicks , far transcends that of protestants : their preaching also ( which i forgot to mention before ) is far to be preferred above that of these : and for their religion and worship , it is liable to no just exception . i desire that our author would but a little call to mind that parable of our saviour , about the two men that went up into the temple to pray . to me this discourse smels rank of the pharisee , and i wish that we might all rather strive to grow in faith , love , charity , self-denyal , and universal conformity unto our lord jesus ; than to bristle up , and cry , stand further off , for i am holier than thou . in the mean time , for the respect i bear him , i intreat our author to speak no more of this matter , lest some angry protestant , or some fanatick should take occasion to talk of old matters , and rip up old sores , or give an account of the present state of things in the church of rome ; all which were a great deal better covered . if he will not take my advice , he must thank himself for that , which will assuredly follow . i must also say , by the way , that that devotion , which consists so much , as our author makes it to do , in the sweeping of churches , and tinckling of bells ; in counting of beads , and knocking of breasts , is of very little value with protestants , who have obtained an experience of the excellency of spiritual communion with god in christ jesus . now whether these parts of the profession and practise of his church , which he is pleased to undertake , not onely the vindication , but the adorning of , be lyable to just exception or no , is the last part of our work to consider ; and which shall in its proper place be done accordingly . as i before observed , he that shall but cursorily run through this discourse , will quickly find , that these false suppositions , ungrounded presumptions , and unwarrantable pretensions , are the things which are disposed of , to be the foundations , nerves , and sinewes of all the rhetorick that it is covered and wrought withall ; and that the bare drawing of them out , leaves all the remaining flourishes in a more scattered condition , than the sybils leaves ; which no man can gather up , and put together , to make up any significancy at all , as to the design in hand . i might then well spare all further labour , and here put a period to my progresse ; and indeed would do so ; were i secure i had none to deal with , but ingenious , and judicious readers ; that have some to tolerable acquaintance at least , with the estate of religion of old , and at present in europe , and with the concernment of their own souls in these things . but that no pretence may be left unto any , that we avoided any thing material in our author : having passed through his discourse unto the end of it , i shall once more return to the beginning , and pass through its severals , leaving behind in the way , such animadversions as are any way needful to rescue such as have not a mind to be deceived , from the snares and cobwebs of his oratory . chap. iii. motive , matter , and method of our author's book . what remains of our author's preface is spent in the persuit of an easie task in all the branches of it . to condemn the late miscarriages in these nations , to decry divisions in religion , with their pernicious consequences , to commend my lord chancellour's speech ; are things that have little difficulty in them , to exercise the skill of a man pretending so highly as our author doth . he may secure himself , that he will find no opposition about these things from any man in his right wits . no other man certainly can be so forsaken of religion and humanity , as not to deplore the woful undertakings and more woful issues of sundry things , whereunto the concernments of religion have been pleaded to give countenance . the rancour also of men , and wrath against one another on the same accounts , with the fruits which they bring forth all the world over , are doubtless a burden to the minds of all that love truth and peace . to prevent a returnal to the former , and remove or at least allay the latter , how excellently the speech of that great counsellour , and the things proposed in it , are suited ; all sober and ingenious men must needs acknowledge . had this then been the whole design of this preface , i had given his book many an amen , before i had come to the end . but our author having wholly another mark in his eye , another business in hand , i should have thought it a little uncivil in him , to make my lord chancellour's speech seemingly subservient to that which he never intended , never aimed at , which no word or expression in it leads unto ; but that i find him afterwards so dealing with the words of god himself . his real work in this compass of words , is to set up a blind , or give a false alarm , to arrest and stay his unwary reader , whilst he prepares him for an entertainment which he thought not of , the pretence he flourisheth over both in the preface and sundry other parts of his discourse , is , the hatefulness of our animosities in and about religion , their dismal effects , with the necessity and excellency of moderation in things of that nature ; the real work in hand is , a perswasive unto popery , and , unto that end ( not of moderation , or forbearance ) are all his arguments directed . should a man go to him , and say , sir , i have read your learned book , and find that heats , and contests , about differences in religion are things full of evil , and such as tend unto further misery ; i am therefore resolved quietly to persist in the way of protestancy wherein i am , without ever attempting the least violence against others for their dissent from me , but only with meekness and quietness defend the truth which i profess ; i presume , he will not judge his design half accomplished towards such a man , if at all . nay , i dare say with some confidence , that in reference to such a one , he would say to himself , op●ram & oleum p●rdidi . and therefore doth he wisely tell us , pag. . that his matter is perceived by the prefixed general contents of his chapters , his design which he cals his method , he confesseth that he doth purposely conceal . but the truth is , it is easily discoverable , there being few pages in the book , that do not display it . the reader then must understand , that the plain english of all his commendations of moderation , and all his exhortations to a relinquishment of those false lights and principles , which have lead men to a disturbance of the publique peace , and ensuing calamities , is , that popery is the only religion in the world , and that centring therein is the only means to put an end to our differences , heats , and troubles . unless this be granted , it will be very hard to find one grain of sincerity in the whole discourse : and if it be ; no less difficult to find so much of truth . so that whatever may be esteemed suitable to the fancies of any of them whom our author courts in his address , those who know any thing of the holiness of god and the gospel , of that reverence which is due to christ and his word , and wherewith all the concernments of religion ought to be mannaged , will scarsely judge , that , that blessed fountain of light and truth will immixe his pure beams and blessing , with such crafty , worldly , sophistical devices ; or such frothy ebullitions of wit and fansie as this discourse is stuffed withall . these are things , that may be fit to entangle unstable spirits , who being regardless of eternity , and steering their course according to every blast of temptation , that fills their lusts and carnal pleasures , are as ready to change their religion ( it men can make any change in , or of , that which in reality they neither leave nor receive , but only sport themselves to and fro with the cloud and shadow of it ) as they are their cloaths and fashions . those who have had experience of the power and efficacy of that religion which they have professed ; as to all the ends for which religion is of god revealed , will be little moved , with the stories , pretenses and diversions of this discourse . knowing , therefore , our author's design , ( and which we shall have occasion to deal with him about , throughout his treatise ) which is to take advantage from the late miscarriages amongst us , and the differences that are in the world in religion , to perswade men not indeed and ultimately to mutual moderation and forbearance , but to a general acquiescency in the roman-catholicism , i shall not here further speak unto it . the five heads of his matter may be briefly run over as he proposeth ▪ them , pag. . with whose consideration i shall take my leave of his preface . the first is , that there is not any colour of reason , or just title , to move us to quarrel and judge one another , with so much heat about religion ▪ indeed there is not ; nor can there be : no man was ever so madd as to suppose there could be any reason or just title for men to do evil ; to quarrel and judge one another with heats about religion , is of that nature . but , if , placing himself , to keep a decorum , amongst ▪ protestants , he would insinuate , that we have no reason to contend about religion , as having lost all title unto it by our departure from rome , i must take leave unto this general head , to put in a general demurrer ; which i shall afterwards plead to , and vindicate . his second is , that all things are so obscure , that no man in prudence can so far presume of his own knowledge , as to set up himself a guide and leader in religion . i say so too ; and suppose the words as they lye , whatever be intended in them , are keenly set against the great papal pretension : whatever he may pretend , we know , the pope sets up himself to be a guide to all men in religion ; and , if he do it not upon a presumption of his own knowledge , we know not on what better grounds he doth it . and though we wholly condemn mens setting up themselves to be guides and leaders to their neighbours ; yet , if he intend , that all things are so obscure , that we have no means to come to the knowledge of the truth concerning god and his mind , so far as it is our duty to know it ; and therefore , that no man can teach or instruct another in that knowledge ; i say , as before , we are not yet of his mind : whether we shall be or no , the process of our discourse will shew . . he adds , that no sect hath any advantage at all over another , nor all of them together over popery . yes ; they that have the truth , wherein they have it , have advantage against all others that have it not . and so protestancy hath advantage over popery . and here , the pretext or vizor of this protestant begins to turn aside : in the next head , it quite falls from him . that is , ( . ) that all the several kinds of religion here in england , are equally innocent to one another ; and popery , as it stands in opposition to them , is absolutely innocent and unblameable to them all . i am little concerned in the former part of these words , concerning the several kinds of religion in england , having undertaken the defence of one only ; namely , protestancy . those that are departed from protestancy so far as to constitute another kind of religion ; as to any thing from me , shall plead for themselves . however i wish , that all parties in england were all equally innocent to one another , or that they would not be willing to make themselves equally nocent . but the latter part of the words contain , i promise you , a very high undertaking . popery is innocent , absolutely innocent and unblameable to them all . i fear we shall scarce find it so , when we come to the tryal . i confess i do not like this pretence of absolute innocency and unblameableness . i suppose , they are men that profess popery , and i do know that popery is a religion or profession of mens finding out ; how it should come to be so absolutely innocent on a suddain , i cannot imagine : but we will leave this until we come to the proof of it , taking notice only , that here is a great promise made unto his noble and ingenious readers , that cannot advantage his cause , if he be not able to make it good . the close is , . that as there neither is , nor can be any rational motive for disputes and animosities about matters of religion ; so is there an indispensable moral cause , obliging us to moderation , &c. but this , as i observed before , though upon the first view of the sign hanging up at the door , a man would guess to be the whole work that was doing in the house , is indeed no part of his business ; and is therefore thrust out at the postern , in two short leaves , the least part of them , in his own words after the spending of pages in the pursuit of his proper design . but , seeing we must look over these things again , in the chapters assigned to their adorning , we may take our leave of them at present , and of his preface together . chap. v. & chap. i. contests about religion and reformation , schoolmen , &c. the title of this chapter was proposed ; the persuit of it , now ensues . the first paragraph is a declamation about sundry things which have not much blame-worthy in them . their common weakness is , that they are common . they tend not to the furtherance of any one thing more then another ; but are such as any party may flourish withal , and use to their several ends as they please . that , desire of honour and applause in the world , hath influenced the minds of men to great and strange undertakings , is certain . that it should do so , is not certain , nor true : so , that when we treat of religion , if we renounce not the fundamental principle of it in self-denyal , this consideration ought to have no place . what then was done by emperours and philosophers of old , or by the later school-men on this account , we are little concerned in . nor have i either desire or design to vellicate any thing spoken by our author , that may have an indifferent interpretation put upon it ; and be separated from the end which he principally persues . as there is but very little spoken in this paragraph , directly tending to the whole end aimed at , so there are but three things , that will any way serve to leaven the mind of his reader , that he may be prepared to be moulded into the form he hath fancyed to cast him into , which is the work of all these previous harangues . the first is his in●●nuation , that the reformation of religion is a thing pretended by aemulous plebeians , not able to hope for that supervisorship in religion which they see intrusted with others . how unserviceable this is unto his design as applyed to the church of england , all men know ; for setting aside the consideration of the influence of soveraign royal authority , the first reformers amongst us , were persons who as they enjoyed the right of reputation for the excellencies of learning and wisdom ; so also were they fixed in those places and conditions in the church , which no reformation could possibly advance them above ; and the attempt whereof cost them not only their dignities , but their lives also . neither were hezekiah , josiah , or ezra , of old , aemulous plebeians , whose lasting glory and renown arose from their reformation of religion . they who fancy men in all great undertakings to be steered by desire of applause and honour , are exceeding incompetent judges of those actions which zeal for the glory of god , love to the truth , sense of their duty to the lord jesus christ , and compassion for the souls of others , do lead men unto , and guide them in ; and such will the last day manifest the reformation traduced to have been . the second , is a gallant commend●tion of the ingenuity , charity , candor , and sublime science of the school-men . i confess , they have deserved good words at his hands : these are the men , who out of a mixture of philosophy , traditions , and scripture● all corrupted and perverted , have hamm●●ed that faith , which was afterwards confirmed under so many anathemaes at trent . so that upon the matter , he is beholden to them for his religion ; which i find he loves , and hath therefore reason to be thankful to its contrivers . for my part , i am as far from envying them their commendation , as i have reason to be , which i am sure is far enough . but yet before we admit this testimony , hand over head ; i could wish he would take a course to stop the mouths of some of his own church , and those no small ones neither , who have declared them to the world , to be a pack of egregious sophisters , neither good philosophers , nor any divines at all ; men who seem not to have had the least reverence of god , nor much regard to the truth in any of their disputations , but we●● wholly influenced by a vain reputation of subtility , desire of conquest , of leading and denominating parties , and that in a barbarous science , barbarously expressed , untill they had driven all learning and divinity almost out of the world. but i will not contend about these fathers of contention : let every man esteem of them as he seems good . there is the same respect , in that bitter reflection which he makes on those , who have managed differences in religion in this last age , the third thing observable . that they are the writers , and writings that have been published against the papacy which he intends ; he doth more than intimate . their disputes , he rells us , are managed with so much unseemly behaviour , such unmanerly expressions , that discreet sobriety cannot but loath , and abhor to read them ; with very much more to this purpose . i shall not much labour to perswade men not to believe what he sayes in this matter ; for i know full well , that he believes it not himself . he hath seen too many protestant books , i suppose , to think this cen●●re will suit them all . this was meet to be spoken , for the advantage of the catholick cause : for what there hath been of real offence in this kind amongst us , we may say , iliacos intra muros peccatur et extra ; romanists are sinners as well as others : and i suppose himself knows . that the reviling , and defamations used by some of his party , are not to be paralleld in any writings of man-kind at this day extant . about the appellatio●s he shall think meet to make use of , in reference to the persons at variance , we will not contend with him : only i desire to let him know , that the reproach of galilean from the pagans , which he appropriates to the papists , was worn out of the world , before that popery which he pleads for , came into it . as roman-catholicks never tasted of the sufferings wherewith that reproach was attended , so they have no special right to the honour that is in its remembrance . as to the sport he is pleased to make with his countrey-men , in the close of this paragraph , about losing their wits in religious contests , with the evils thence ensuing , i shall no further reflect upon ; but once more to mind the reader , that the many words he is pleased to use in the exaggerating the evils of mannaging differences in religion with animosities and tumults , so seemingly to perswade men to moderation and peace , i shall wholly pass by , as having discovered , that that is not his business , nor consequently at present , mine . it is well observed by him in his second paragraph , that most of the great contests in the world about perishing things , proceed from the unmortified lusts of men . the scripture abounds in testimonies given hereunto : st. james expresly ; from whence come wars and fightings among you ? come they not hence even of your lusts that war in your members ? ye lust and have not , ye kill and desire to have , and cannot obtain ; you fight and warr , yet you have not , chap. . , . mens lusts put them on endless irregularities , in unbounded desires , and foolish sinful enterprizes for their satisfaction . neither is satan the old enemy of the well-fare of mankind wanting to excite , provoke , and stir up these lusts by mixing himself with them in his temptations , thrusting them on , and intangling them in their persuit . as to the contests about religion , which i know not with what mind or intention he terms an empty airy business , a ghostly fight , a skirmish of shaddows or horse-men in the clowds , he knows not what principle , cause , or sourse , to aso●ibe them unto ; that which he is most inclinable unto , is , that there is something invisible above man , stronger and more politick then he , that doth this contumely to mankind , that casts in these apples of contention amongst us , that hisses us to warr and battail , as waggish boys do doggs in the street . that which is intended in these words , and sundry others of the like quality that follow , is , that this ariseth from the intisements and impulsions of the devil . and none can doubt , but that in these works of darkness , the prince of darkness hath a great hand . the scripture also assures us , that as the scorpions which vexed the world issued out of the bottomless pit , so also that these unclean spirits do stir up the powers of the earth to make opposition unto the truth of the gospel , and religion of jesus christ. but yet neither doth this hinder , but that even these religious fewds and miscarriages also , proceed principally from the ignorance , darkness , and lusts of men ▪ in them lies the true cause of all dissentions in and about the things of god. the best know but in part , and the most love darkness more than light , because their works are evils . a vain conversation received by tradition from mens fathers ; with inveterate prejudices , love of the world , and the customs thereof , do all help on this s●d work wherein so many are imployed . that some preach the gospel of god 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 with all their strength , in much contention , and contend earnestly for the faith once delivered unto the saints ; as it is their duty , so it is no cause , but only an accidental occasion , of differences amongst men . that the invisible substances our author talks of , should be able to sport themselves with us as children do with dogs in the street , and that with the like impulse from them , as dogs from these , we should rush into our contentions , might pass for a pretty notion , but only that it over-throws all religion in the world , and the whole nature of man. there is evil enough in corrupted nature to produce all these evils which are declaimed against to the end of this section , were there no daemons to excite men unto them . the adventitious impressions from them , by temptations and suggestions , doubtless promote them , and make men precipitate above their natural tempers in their productions ; but the principal cause of all our evils is still to be looked for at home , nec te quaesiveris extra . sect. . pag. . in the next section of this chapter whereunto he prefixes , nullity of title , he persues the perswasive unto peace , moderation , charity , and quietness , in our several perswasions , with so many reasonings , and good words , that a man would almost think that he began to be in good earnest , and that those were the things which he intended for their own sakes to promote . i presume , it cannot but at the first view seem strange to some , to find a man of the roman party so ingeniously arguing against the imposition of our senses in religion magisterially and with violence one upon the other ; it being notoriously known to all the world , that they are , if not the only , yet the greatest imposers on the minds and consciences of men that ever lived in the earth ; and which work they cease not the prosecution of , where they have power , until they come to fire and fagot . i dare say , there is not any strength in any of his queries , collections , and arguings , but an indifferent man would think it at the first sight to be pointed against the roman interest and practice . for what have they been doing for some ages past , but under a pretence of charity to the souls of men , endeavouring to perswade them to their opinions and worship , or to impose them on them whether they will or no ? but let old things pass ; it is well if now at last they begin to be otherwise minded . what then , if we should take this gentleman at his word , and cry , a match ; let us strive and contend no more ; keep you your religion at rome to your selves , and we will do as well as we can with ours in england ; we will trouble you no more about yours , nor pray do not you meddle with us or ours . let us pray for one another , wait on god for light and direction , it being told us , that if any one be otherwise minded , ( than according to the truth ) god shall reveal that unto him . let us all strive to promote godliness , obedience to the commands of christ , good works , and peace in the world ; but for this contending about opinions , or endeavouring to impose our several perswasions upon one another , let us give it quite over . i fear he would scarsely close with us , and so wind up all our differences upon the bottom of his own proposals ; especially , if this law should extend it's self to all other nations equally concerned with england . he would quickly tell us , that this is our mistake ; he intended not roman-catholicks , and the differences we have with them in this discourse ; it is protestants , presbyterians , independents , anabaptists , quakers , that he deals with al , and them only , and that upon this ground , that none of them have any title or pretence of reason to impose on one another , and so ought to be quiet , and let one another alone in matters of religion . but for the roman-catholicks , they are not concerned at all in this harangue , having a sufficient title to impose upon them all . now truly , if this be all , i know not what we have to thank you for , tantúmne est otii tibi abs re tua , aliena ut cures , eaque quae ad te nihil at tinent ? there are wise and learned men in england , who are concerned in our differences , and do labour to compose them or suppress them . that this gentleman should come and justle them aside , and impose himself an umpire upon us , without our choyce or desire , in matters that belong not unto him , how charitable it may seem to be , i know not ; but it is scarsely civil . would , he would be perswaded to go home , and try his remedies upon the distempers of his own family , before he confidently vend them to us . i know he has no salves about him to heal diversities of opinions , that he can write probatum est upon , from his roman-church . if he have , he is the most uncharitable man in the world , to leave them at home brawling , and together by the ears ; to seek out practise where he is neither desired , nor welcome , when he comes without invitation . i confess , i was afraid at the beginning of the section , that i should be forced to change the title before i came to the end , and write over it desinit in piscem . the sum of this whole paragraph is , that all sorts of protestants , and others , here in england , do ridiculously contend about their several perswasions in religion , and put trouble on one another on that account , whereas it is the pope only that hath title and right to prescribe a religion unto us all ; which is not to me unlike the fancy of the poor man in bedlam , who smiled with great contentment , at their folly , who imagined themselves either queen elizabeth , or king james , seeing he himself was king henry the eighth . but , seeing that is the business in hand , let us see what is this title , that the pope hath , which protestants can lay no claim unto . it is founded on that of the apostle to the corinthians , did the word of god come forth from you , or came it unto you only ? this is pretended the only rule to determin , with whom the preheminence of religion doth remain : now the word came not out originally from protestants , or puritans , nor came it to them alone . so that they have no reason to be imposing their conceptions on one another , or own others that differ from them . but our author seems here to have fallen upon a great mis-adventure ; there is not , as i know of , any one single text of scripture , that doth more fatally cut the throat of papal pretensions , than this that he hath stumbled on . it is known , that the pope and his adherents claim a preheminence in religion to be the sole judges of all its concernments , and the imposers of it in all the world . what men receive from them , that is truth ; what they are any otherwise instructed in , it is all false and naught . on this pretence it is , that this gentleman pleads nullity of title amongst us as to all our contests ; though we know , that truth carries its title with it , in whose hands soever it be found . give me leave then to make so bold ( at least at this distance ) as to ask the pope and his adherents an à vobis verbum dei processit , an ad vos solos pervenit ? did the gospel first come from you , or only unto you , that you thus exalt your selves above your brethren all the world over ? do we not know by whom it first came to you , and from whom ? did it not come to very many parts of the world before you ? to the whole world as well as to you ? why do you then boast your selves as though you had been the first revealers of the gospel , or that it had come unto you in a way or manner peculiar and distinct from that by which it came to other places ? would you make us believe , that christ preached at rome , or suffered , or rose from the dead there , or gave the holy ghost first to the apostles there , or first there founded his church , or gave order for the empaling it there , when it was built ? would we never so fain , we cannot believe such prodigious fables . to what purpose then do you talk of title to impose your conceits in religion upon us ? did the gospel first come forth from you , or came it unto you only ? will not rome notwithstanding its seven hills , be laid in a level with the rest of the world , by vertue of this rule ? the truth is , as to the oral dispensation of the gospel , it came forth from jerusalem , by the personal ministry of the apostles , and came equally to all the world : that spring being long since dryed up , it now comes forth to all from the written word ; and unto them who receive it in its power and truth doth it come , and unto no other . what may further be thought necessary to be discussed , as to the matter of fact , in reference to this rule , the reader may find handled under that consideration of the first supposition ; which our author builds his discourse upon . sect. . pag. . heats and resolution , is the title of this section ; in which if our author be found blameless , his charge on others will be the more significant : the impartial reader , that will not be imposed on by smooth words , will easily know what to guess of his temper . in the mean time , though we think it is good to be well-resolved , in the things that we are to believe and practise in the worship of god ; yet all irregular , and irrational heats , in the prosecution , or maintenance of mens different conceptions and apprehensions in religion , we desire sincerely to avoid and explode . nor is it amiss , that , to further our moderation , we be minded of the temper of the pagans , who in their opinion-wars ( we are told ) used no other weapons but only of pen and speech : for our author seems to have forgotten , not only innumerable other instances to the contrary , but also the renowned battel between ombos and tentyra . but this forgetfulness was needful , to aggravate the charge on christians , that are not romanists , for their heat , fury , and fightings , for the promotion of their opinions ; as being in this so much the worse than pagans , who in religion used another manner of moderation . and who i pray is it , that manageth this charge ? whence comes this dove , with an olive-branch ? this orator of peace ? if we may guess from whence he came , by seeing whither he is going , we must say that it was from rome . this is their plea , this the perswasion of men of the roman-interest : this their charge on protestants : to this height the confidence of mens ignorance , inadvertency , and fullness of present things amounts . could ever any one rationally expect , that these gentlemen would be publick decryers of fury , wars , and tumults for religion ? may not protestants say to them , quae regio in terris nostri non plena cruoris ? is there any nation under the heavens , whereunto your power extends , wherein our blood hath not given testimony to your wrath and fury ? after all your cursings , and attempted depositions of kings and princes , translations of title to soveraignty and rule , invasions of nations , secret conspiracies , prisons , racks , swords , fire , and fagot , do you now come and declaim about moderation ? we see you not yet cease from killing of men , in the pursuit of your fancies and groundless opinions ; any where , but either where you have not power , or can find no more to kill : so that certainly , whatever reproach we deserve to have cast upon us in this matter , you are the unfittest men in the world to be mannagers of it . but i still find my self in a mistake in this thing : it is only protestants and others , departed from the roman church , that our author treats : it is they , who are more fierce and disingenious than the pagans , in their contests amongst themselves , and against the romanists ; as having the least share of reason , of any upon the earth . his good church is not concerned , who as it is not lead by such fancies and motives as they are , so it hath right ( where it hath power ) to deal with its adversaries as seems good unto it . this then , sir , is that which you intend ; that we should agree amongst our selves , and wait for your coming with power to destroy us all . it were well indeed , if we could agree ; it is our fault and misery , if we do not , having so absolutely a perfect rule and means of agreement as we have . but yet , whether we agree , or agree not , if there be another party distinct from us all , pretending a right to exterminate us from the earth , it behooves us to look after their proceedings . and this is the true state of all our author's pleas for moderation ; which are built upon such principles as tend to the giving us up unarmed and naked to the power and will of his masters . for the rest of this section , wherein he is pleased to sport himself in the miscarriages of men in their coyning and propagating of their opinions , and to gild over the care and success of the church of rome , in stifling such births of pride and darkness , i shall not insist upon it . for as the first as generally tossed up and down , concerns none in particular , though accompanyed with the repetition of such words as ought not to be scosfed at ; so the latter is nothing but what violence and ignorance may any where , and in any age , produce . there are societies of christians , not a few , in the east , wherein meer darkness and ignorance of the truth , hath kept men at peace in errors , without the least disturbance by contrary opinions amongst themselves , for above a years ; and yet they have wanted the help of outward force to secure their tranquillity . and is it any wonder , that where both these powerful engins are set at work for the same end , if in some measure it be compassed and effected . and if there be such a thing among the romanists ( which i have reason to be difficult in admitting the belief of ) as that they can stisle all opinions , as fast as they are conceived , or destroy them assoon as they are brought forth ; i know it must be some device or artifice unknown to the apostles and primitive churches ; who notwithstanding all their authority and care for the truth , could not with many compass that end . sect. . pag. . the last section of this chapter contains motives to moderation three in number ; and i suppose , that no man doubts , but that many more might be added , every one in weight out-doing all these three . the first is that alone which protestants are concerned to look unto : not that protestants oppose any motive unto moderation ; but knowing that in this discourse , moderation is only the pretence , popery ( if i may use the word without incivility ) the design and aim , it concerns them to examine , which of these pretended motives , that any way regards their real principle , doth tend unto ; now this motive is , the great ignorance our state and condition is involved in , concerning god , his works , and providence ; a great motive to moderation , i wish all men would well consider it . for i must acknowledge , that i cannot but suppose them ignorant of the state and condition of mortality , and so consequently their own , who are ready to destroy and exterminate their neighbors of the same flesh and bloud with them , and agreeing in the main principles of religion , that may certainly be known , for lesser differences , and that by such rules as within a few years may possibly reach their nearest relations . our author also layes so much weight on this motive , that he fears an anticipation , by men , saying , that the scripture reveals enough unto us ; which therefore he thinks necessary to remove . for my part ; i scarse think , he apprehended any real danger , that this would be insisted on as an objection against his motive to moderation . for to prevent his tending on towards that which is indeed his proper end , this obstacle is not unseasonably layed , that under a pretence of the ignorance unavoidably attending our state and condition , he might not prevail upon us to increase and aggravate it , by entising us to give up our selves by an implicite faith to the conduct of the roman-church . a man may easily perceive the end he intends , by the objections which he fore-sees . no man is so madd , i think , as to plead the sufficiency of scripture-revelation against moderation ; when in the revelation of the will of god contained in the scripture , moderation is so much commended unto us , and pressed upon us : but against the pretended necessity of resigning our selves to the romanists for a relief against the unavoidable ignorance of our state and condition , besides that we know full well , such a resignation would yield us no relief at all ; this plea of the sufficiency of scripture-revelation is full and unanswerable . this put our author on a work which i have formerly once or twice advised him to meddle no more ; being well assured , that it is neither for his reputation , nor his advantage , much less for his souls health . the pretences which he makes use of , are the same that we have heard of many and many a time ; the abuse of it by some , and the want of an infallible interpreter of it as to us all . but the old tale is here anew gilded with an intermixture of other pretty stories , and application of all to the present humours of men ; not forgetting to set forth the brave estate of our fore-fathers , that had not the use of the scripture ; which what it was , we know well enough , and better then the prejudices of this gentleman will give him leave to tell us . but if the lawful and necessary use of any thing may be decryed , because of its abuse , we ought not only to labour the abolishing of all christian religion in general , and every principle of it in particular out of the world ; but the blotting out of the sun , and moon , and stars , out of the firmament of heaven , and the destruction of the greatest and most noble parts , at least , of the whole creation : but as the apostles continued in the work of preaching the gospel , though by some , the grace they taught was turned into lasciviousness ; so shall we abide to plead for the use of the scripture , whatever abuse of them by the wicked lusts of men can be instanced in . nor is there any reason in the world , why food should be kept from all men , though some have surfeited , or may yet so do . to have a compendious narration of the story and morality of the scripture in the room of the whole , which our author allows of , is so jejune , narrow , and empty a conception , so unanswerable to all those divine testimonies given to the excellency of the word of god , with precepts to abide in the meditation and study of it , to grow in the knowledge of it , and the mysteries contained in it , the commendations of them that did so , in the scripture it self , so blasphemously derogatory to the goodness , love , and wisdom of god , in granting us that inestimable benefit , so contrary to the redoubled exhortations of all the antient fathers , that i wonder any one who dares pretend to have read it , or to be a christian , can own and avow such a notion . all the fine stories , allusions , and speculations , about madness , that he is pleased to flourish withall in this matter , are a covering too short and narrow to hide that wretched contempt of the holy word of the great god , which in these notions discovers its self . men who by corrupt principles have been scared from the study of the scripture , or by their lusts kept from its serious perusal , or attendance unto it , that value not the authority of god , of christ , or his apostles , commanding and requiring the diligent study of it , that dis-regard the glorious mysteries , revealed in it on set purpose that we might all come to an acquaintance with them , and so , consequently , that have had no experience of the excellency or usefulness of it , nor lye under any conviction of their own duty to attend unto it ; may perhaps be glad to have their lusts and unbelief so farr accommodated , as to suffer themselves to be perswaded , that there is no need that they should any further regard it , than hitherto they have done . but in vain is the net spread before the eye of any thing that hath a wing ; for them who have tasted the sweetness of the good word of god , who have attained any acquaintance with its usefulness and excellency , who have heard the voyce of god in it , making the knowledge of his will revealed therein of indispensable necessity to the salvation of their souls ; believe me , sir , all your rhetorick and stories , your pretences and flourishes , will never prevail with them to cast away their bibles , and resolve for the future to believe only in the pope . of the interpretation of the scripture i have spoken before , and shewed sufficiently , that neither are we at any such a loss therein , as to bring us to any incertainty about the principles of our religion ; nor , if we were , have we the least reason to look for any relief from rome . when i happen upon any of these discourses , i cannot but say to my self ; what do these men intend ? do they know what they do , or with whom they have to deal ? have they ever read the scripture , or tasted any sweetness in it ? if they instruct their disciples unto such mean thoughts of the holy word of god , they undo them for ever . and if i meet with these bold efforts against the wisdom of god twenty times , i cannot but still thus startle at them . the two following motives being taken up , as far as i can apprehend , to give our author an advantage to make sport for himself and others , in canvasing some expressions & discourses of our talkative times , and the vulgar brutish management of our differences , by some weak unknowing persons , need not detain us . did i judge it a business worthy of any prudent mans consideration , it were easie to return him for his requital , a collec●●on of the pretty prayers and devotions of his good catholicks , of their kind treatments one of another , or the doubty arguments they make use of amongst themselves and against us ; abundantly enough to repay him his kindness , without being beholding to any of those legends , which they formerly accommodated the people withall , in room both of scripture and preaching ; though of late they begin to be ashamed of them . chap. vi. to chap ii. obscurity of god , &c. unto the ensuing whole chapter , wherein our author exspatiates , with a most luxuriant oratory , throughout ; and oft times soars with poetical raptures , in setting forth the obscurity and darkness of all things , 〈◊〉 ignorance and disability , to attain a right and perfect knowledge of them , canting by the way , many of those pretty notions , which the philosophical discoursive men of our dayes do use to whet their wits upon , over a glass of wine ; i have not much to offer : nor should i once reflect upon that discourse , were it not designed to another end , than that which it is ushered in by , as the thing aymed to be promoted by it . forbearance of one another in our several perswasions , on a sense of our infirmity and weakness , and the obscurity of those things , about which our minds and contemplations are conversant , is flourished at the entrance of this harangue : after a small progress , the snake begins to hiss in the grass , and in the close openly to shew it self , in an enticement unto an imbracing of the roman-religion ; which , it seems , will disintangle our minds out of that maze about the things of god and man , in which , without its guidance , we must of necessity wander for ever . as for his philosophical notions , i suppose they were only vented , to shew his skill in the learned talks of this age , & to toll on the gallants , whom he hath most hope to enveagle ; knowing them to be candidates for the most part , unto that sceptism which is grown the entertainment of tables and taverns . how a man that is conversant in his thoughts about religion , and his choice of , or settlement therein , should come to have any concernment in this discourse , i cannot imagine . that god , who is infinitely wise , holy , good , who perfectly knows all his own excellencies , hath revealed so much of himself , his mind , and will , in reference to the knowledg which he requires of himself , and obedience unto him , as is sufficient to guide us whilst we are here below , to steer our course in our subjection to him , and dependence on him , in a manner acceptable unto him , and to bring us to our utmost end and blessedness in the enjoyment of him : this protestants think sufficient for them , who as they need not , so they desire not to be wise above what is written ; nor to know more of god , than he hath so revealed of himself , that they may know it . those barren , fruitless sp●culations , which some curious serpentine wits , casting off all reverence of the soveraignty and majesty of god , have exercised themselves in and about , even in things too high and hard f●r them , darkning counsel and wisdom , by words of pretended subtilty , but real folly ; are fitter to be exploded out of the world , then fomented and cherished in the m●nds of men . nor doth that discourse about god and his essence , which lies before us , seem to grow on any other roots than ignorance and curiosity ; ignorance of what it is that god requireth us to know of him , and how ; and curiosity in prying into , and using words about what we do not understand , nor is it the mind of god that we should . were poor sinners throughly sensible of their own condition , and what acquaintance with god their concernment doth lye in , they would little value such vain towring imaginations as some mens minds are exercised withal . come , sir , let us leave these vain flourishes , and in deepest abasement of soul pray that we may know how the father , whom no man hath seen at any time , is revealed by the only begotten son , who is in his bosom . what he is in his law towards impenitent sinners , what in the covenant of his grace to them that fly for refuge to the hope that is set before them ; even that the god of our lord jesus christ , the father of glory , would give unto us the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him , that the eyes of our understanding being enlightned , we may know what is the hope of his calling , and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints , and what is the exceeding greatness of his power towards them that believe , according to the working of the might of his power , which he wrought in christ when he raised him from the dead , and set him at his own right hand in heavenly places ; that our hearts may be comforted , being knit together in love , and unto all riches of the full assurance of understanding to the acknowledgement of the mystery of god , and of the father , and of christ , in whom are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge , and by whom alone we may obtain any saving acquaintance with them ; who also is come , and hath given us an understanding , that we may know him that is true . this is the port-haven of protestants , whatever real darkness may be about them , or whatever mists may be cast on them by the sleights of men that lye in wait to deceive , that they need know no more of god , that they may love him , fear him , believe in him , and come to the enjoyment of him , than what he hath clearly and expresly in christ revealed of himself by his word . whether the storms of this gentleman's indignation be able to drive them , or the more pleasant gales of his eloquence to entise them , from this harbour , time will shew . in the mean while , that indeed , they ought not so to do , nor will do so with any but such as are resolved to steer their course by some secret distempers of their own , a few strictures on the most material passages of this chapter will discover . it is scarce worth while , to remark his mistake in the foundation of his discourse of the obscurity of god , as he is pleased to state the matter , from that of the prophet , asserting , that god is a god who hides himself ; or , as he renders it , an hidden god. his own prophet will tell him , that it is not concerning the essence of god , but the dispensation of his love and favour towards his people , that those words were used by the prophet of old , and so are unwillingly pressed to serve in the design he hath in hand . neither are we more concerned in the ensuing discourse of the soul 's cleaving to god by affection , upon the metaphysicall representation of his excellencies and perfections unto it ; it being purely platonical , and no way suited to the revelation made of god in the gospel , which acquaints us not with any such amiableness in god , as to endear the souls of sinners unto him , causing them to reach out the wings of their love after him , but only as he is in christ jesus , reconciling the world to himself ; a consideration that hath no place , nor any can obtain , in this flourish of words : and the reason is , because they are sinners , and therefore without the revelation of an attonement , can have no other apprehension of the infinitely holy and righteous god , but as of a devouring fire , with whom no sinner can inhabite . nor yet in the aggravation of the obscurity of god from the restless endeavours of mankind in the disquisition of him , who , as he sayes , shew their love in seeking him , having at their birth an equal right to his favour , which they could no wise demerit before they were born , being directly contrary to the doctrine of his own church , in the head of original sin. that which first draws up towards the design he is in persuit of , is his determination , that the issuing of mens perplexities in the investigation of this hidden god , must be by some prophet or teacher , sent from god unto men ; but the uncertainty of coming into any better condition thereby , is so exaggerated by a contempt of those wayes and means , that such prophets have fixed on to evidence their coming forth from god , by miracles , visions , prophesies , ashew of sanctity , with a concourse of threats and promises , as that means also is cashiered from yielding us any relief . neither is there any thing intimated , or offered , to exempt the true prophets of god , nor the lord christ himself , from being shuffled into the same bag with false pretenders in the close , that were brought forth to play their game in this pageant . yea , the difficulty put upon this help of the loss we are at in the knowledge of god , by prophets and prophesies , seems especially to respect those of the scripture , so to manifest the necessity of a further evidence to be given unto them , then any they carry about them , or bring with them , that they may be useful to this end and purpose : and this intention is manifest a little after , where the scripture is expresly reckoned among those things which all men boast of , none can come to certainty or assurance by . thus are poor unstable souls ventured to the borders of atheism , under a pretence of leading them to the church . was this the method of christ , or his apostles , in drawing men to the faith of the gospel ? this the way of the holy men of old , that laboured in the conversion of souls from gentilism and heresie ? were ever such bold assaults against the immoveable principles of christianity made by any , before religion came to be a matter of carnal interest ? is there no way to exalt the pope , but by questioning the authority of christ , and truth of the scripture ? truly , i am sorry , that wise and considering men should observe such an irreverence of god and his word to prevail in the spirits of men , as to entertain thoughts of perswading them to desert their religion , by such presumptious insinuations of the uncertainty of all divine revelation . but all this may be made good on the consideration of the changes of men after their profession of this or that religion ; namely , that , notwithstanding their former pretensions , yet indeed , they knew nothing at all , seeing that from god and the truth no man doth willingly depart ; which if it be universally true , i dare say , there is not one word true in the scripture . how often doth god complain in the old-testament , that his people forsook him for that which was not god ? and how many do the apostles shew us in the new , to have forsaken the truth ? it is true , that under the notion of god the cheifest good , and of truth the proper object and rest of the understanding , none can willingly and by choyce depart : but , that the mindes of men might be so corrupted and perverted by their own lusts , and temptations of satan , as willingly and by choyce to forsake the one or the other , to embrace that which in their stead presents it self unto them ; is no less true , than , that twice two make four . and it is meer weakness and ignorance of the condition of mankind , since the entrance of sin , to conclude , that , because men may forsake the truth which they have professed , therefore there is no evidence in that truth which they so forsake ; as though , truth and its evidence were to be measured and judged by the carriage and deportment of corrupt and unstable men towards it . though the sun continue to shine in the firmament , yet there be a thousand ways whereby men may become blind , and so rendred unable to see it . and there are no fewer ▪ ways whereby men either wilfully themselves darken the eyes of their understanding , or suffer them to be put out by others . shall the truth be thence calumniated , as though it sent forth no beams whereby it may be clearly discerned ? are they not rather justly to be supposed blind themselves , who can entertain such thoughts of it ? we dwell too much on these remote attempts towards the special end aimed at . the rhetorick of this discourse is wound up , pag. , , , . in a perswasive unto popery ; the substance whereof is , that the papacy being rejected , there is a necessity that all men must become atheists ; which requires a little further consideration . he says , then , that these dissentions of ours ( he means , of protestants , one of whom he most undecently personates ) about the faith in its branches so hot , so various , so extravagant , are apt to inferr a suspition in its very root ; are not a hundred in our own countrey become atheists already upon that very notion ? and these men supposing substantial change once made in religion , and deliberately admitted , are rather to be commended for their wit , than blamed . for they do but that suddenly , which all the land will come to by degrees . this in general ; in which entrance into his further application of what he had largely , and indeed loosly , before discoursed to his present purpose ; i wish i could find any thing sound . if dissentions about the faith , however extravagantly mannaged , are apt to inferr a suspition in its very root , it is most certain , that since the first preaching of it , or within a few years after its first revelation , causes of suspition have been given , and will be given , and it is the mind of god should be given , who said , there must be heresies , that the approved may be tryed . and this very argument did celsus press against christianity almost . years ago ; which is worthily answered by origen ▪ nor is there need of adding any thing to what that excellent man replyed unto one of the first coyners of this objection . the truth is ; our dissentions are evils ; our evils , the evils of men that are ingaged in them . and yet it may be , not all out so evil in themselves as is pretended ; they are farr enough from meriting the title of , lo here is christ , and , lo there is christ ; protestants are all of them well enough agreed , who is christ , and where alone he is to be found : if they jump not wholly into the same conceptions , about some few things of less importance in the way and manner of the worship of christ , it is no more , but what hath been the lot of the best of men ever since christ was preached on the earth , that were not infallibly inspired ; such contests ever were , and he that knows what men are , will have little cause given him to suspect the truth of the foundation of that about which they contend . nor is any ground of such suspition administred by these differences ; men of corrupt minds , may take occasion from them to vent the enmity which is in their hearts against the faith ; ground of suspition none is given unto them . nay rather , it is a strong evidence of the certainty of the faith in general , that all those who contend about the branches of it , do every one of them charge one another with the failure ; and all agree , that the faith it self about which they contend , is certain , sure , and stable . and , i hope , the gentleman is mistaken in the calculation of the numbers that are become atheists in our countrey ; or , if he have brought them to the pole , i do not believe , that he hath taken a particular account of the occasions and reasons that cast them on that commendable piece of wit , as he styles it ; and so knows not , but that they may have been made witty by some of those wayes , whereby , if a learned frier may be believed , there were no less then . become atheists , and that not of protestants , but good catholicks , in one city in our neighbouring-nation . but this falls out , saith he , by a supposal of a substantial change made in religion , and deliberately admitted . this , indeed , were something ; but , whoever supposed so ? the religion of jesus christ , is the same , once delivered unto the saints . this is still one and the same , yesterday , to day , and for ever , unalterable ; as christ himself . men indeed , who are lyars , are changeable worms ; and many , as to their profession in religion , alter , change , turn , apostatize , with or without deliberation : but he that shall thence conclude , that his best course is speedily to be an atheist , will not deserve much commendation for his wit , less for his wisdom ; and , for his grace , none at all . that the land will come to atheism by degrees , is the prognostication of our author , calculated from the meridian of rome . for my part , i fear not such kind of prophets : protestant religion hath , by the blessing of god , retrived the nation from the doors of atheism , and kept it safe almost these hundred years , notwithstanding the woful miscarriages of some that have professed it ; why they must now all by degrees turn atheists , i know no reason to fear , nor presume doth our author , but that he is prompted to like his conjecture , by his love to his countreymen , desiring they may follow them , who are so commended for their wit. but we must proceed with the improvement of this consideration . pag. . if the papist , or roman - catholick , who first brought the news of christ and his christianity into the land , as all men must needs know , that have either heard or read of christianities ▪ ingress into england , or other countries and kingdoms , ( for we do no sooner hear news of christianity than popery , and its crucifixes , monasteries , reliques , sacrifice , and the like ) , i say , if the papist le now become so odious , as we see he is , and if the faith he brought and maintained a thousand years together , be now rent all asunder by sects and factions , which bandy all to the ruine of that mother-religion ; if all her practical truths , wherein chiefest piety consists , be already abandoned as erroneous ; doth not this justifie the pagan whom this catholick christian displaced to make way for his own law ? and must not this be a certain way and means to introduce atheism , which naturally follows that faith once removed , even as a carkass succeeds a living body once deceased ? for , one truth denyed , is a fair way to question another , which came by the same hand ; and this , a third : till the very authority of the first revealer be at stake , which can no more defend himself then he can his law ? for the same axe and instrument , that cut down the branches , can cut up the root too ; and , if his reverence , for which all the rest was believed , defend not their truth , it must needs at length utterly fail in his own ; for all the authority they had was purely from him , and he fails in them before he falls in himself . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . that the papists , or roman-catholicks , first brought christ and his christianity into this land , is most untrue ; and i wonder how any one that hath read any story of the times that are past , should so often averre what he cannot but know to be untrue . the gospel might have been brought into england by romans , and yet not by papists ; for i cannot find , nor can this gentleman shew , that the romans st. paul wrote unto , were any one of them , in any one poynt , papists . but neither was it brought hither by romans , but came immediately out of the east ; from whence also about the same time it came to rome . nor is it any jot truer , that we no sooner heard news of christianity , than popery , with its crucifixes , monasteries , reliques , sacrifice , ( that is , the mass ) , and the like ; apage nugas ! what do we talk of tother-day things , when we speak of the first news of christianity ? the first planting and watering of these things , was in after-ages , and their growing up to that consistency , wherein they may justly be called popery , a work of many centuries . and yet , i shall grant , that most of them got the start in the world , of that papal soveraignty , whence popery is peculiarly denominated . but the first news we hear of christianity , is in the gospel ; where there is not the least tidings of these trifles , nor was there in some ages , that next succeeded the publication of it . if this gentleman , give any further occasion , the particulars shall be evinced to him . for my part , i know not how , nor to whom a papist is become odious , which nextly he complains of . i can , and do love their persons , pitty them in their mistakes , hate only their vices . but yet , certain it is , a papist may be odious , that is , men may not love those parts of his religion , from whence he is so denominated , without the least impeachment of that faith that extirpated gentilism in the world. it is for that faith which ruined gentilism , that we contend against papists . let us have that , and no more , and there is an end of all our contests . the things we strive about , sprang up since gentilism was buryed , the most of them out of its grave , some from a deeper place , if there be a deeper place . for the practical truths of the papists , which he complains to be abolished , i was in good hope , he would not have mentioned them ; their speculations are better then their practises , whether he intends their moral divinity , or their agenda in worsh●p ; i would desire this gentleman to mention them no more , lest he hear that of them , which , i know , he is not willing to do . as for the practical truths of the gospel , they are maintained , and asserted in the church of england , and by all protestants ; and about others , we are not solicitous . what tendency then , the rejection of popery , which had no hand in supplanting gentilism , and which is no part of the religion of christ , hath to the leading of men into atheism , is as hard to discover , as the quadrature of a circle , or a subterranean passage into the indies . but he gives his reasons ; if one truth be denyed , a fair way is made to question another , which came by the same hand , and this a third , till the very authority of the first revealer be at stake , which can no more defend himself then he can his law. this first revealer , i take to be the lord christ ; he that grants a thing , or doctrine , to be taught and delivered by him , yet denyes it to be true , doth indeed deny his authority : however , he will defend himself and his law , let men do what they please . but , he that denyes such a thing to be truth , because it is not revealed by him , nor consistent with what is revealed by him , doing this out of subjection of soul and conscience to his authority , is in no danger of questioning or opposing that authority . nay , be it , that it be indeed a truth which he denyes : being only denyed by him , because he is perswaded , that it is not of christ , the first revealer , and therefore not true ; there is no fear of the danger threatned . but the matter is , that all that is brought from christ by the same hand , must be equally received . it is true , if it be brought from christ by the same hand , it must be so ; not , because by the same hand , but because from christ ; they that preached christ , and withall , that men must be circumcised , had put men into a sad condition ; if , in good sooth , they had been necessitated to embrace all that they taught ; the same men teaching christ to be the messias , and circumcision to be necessary to life eternal . amongst those that were converted to the gospel by the jews that were zealous of the law , how easie had it been for their teachers , to have utterly frustrated st. paul's doctrine of christian liberty , by telling them , that they could not forgo circumcision , but they must forgo christ also ; for , all those things they received by the same hand . if , indeed , a man comes and delivers a systeme of religion upon his own authority and reputation only , he that denyes any one point of what he delivers , is in a fair way of everting all that he asserts . but if he come , as sent from another , and affirm , that this other commanded him to declare , that which he delivers for truth in his name , and produce for that end his commission , wherein all the truths that he is to deliver , are written ; if he deliver what he hath not received in commission , that may honestly be rejected , without the least impeachment of any one truth that was really committed unto him , by him that sent him . and this was the way , this the condition of them who planted the gospel in the name of christ , not being themselves divinely inspired . so that , if in the second edition of christianity , in some parts of this nation by austine , and his associates , any thing was taught or practised , that was not according to the rule and commission given by christ , it may be rejected , without the least impeachment to the authority of the first revealer ; nay , his authority being once received , cannot be preserved entire without such rejection . i confess , i do almost mistrust , that by this revealer of christianity , and his authority , which he discourses about , our authour intends the pope ; which , if so , what we have discoursed of christ , is , i confess , to little purpose ; and it were easie to turn our reply that way ; but , because i have not clear evidence for it , i will not charge him with so horrid a presumptuous insinuation ; when he declares his mind , he shall hear more of ours . but he further specifies his meaning in an enumeration of doctrines that were preached by the first planters of the gospel , in and unto the extirpation of gentilism . if , saith he , the institution of monasteries , to the praise and service of god , day and night , be thought as it hath been now these many years a superstitious folly ; if christian priests and sacrifices be things of high idolatry ; if the seven sacraments be deemed vain , most of them ; if it suffice to salvation , only to believe , whatever life we lead ; if there be no value , or merit , in good works ; if god's laws be impossible to be kept ; if christ be not our law-maker and director of doing well , as well as redeemer from ill ; if there be no sacramental tribunal for our reconciliation ordained from by christ on the earth ; if the real body of our lord be not bequeathed unto his spouse in his last will and testament ; if there be not under christ a general head of the church , who is chief priest and pastor of all christians upon earth under god , whose vicegerent he is in spiritual affairs ; all which things are now held forth by us , manifestly against the doctrine of the first preachers of christianity in this land ; then i say , paganism was unjustly displaced by these doctrines , and atheism must needs succeed ; for if christ deceived us , upon whom shall we rely ; and if they that brought us the first news of christ , brought along with it so many grand lies , why may not the very story of christ be thought a romance ? i could wish there had been a little more clearness and ingenuity in this annumeration ; the mixing of what he takes to be truths , with some negatives that he condemns in the same series , breeds some confusion in the discourse : and i am also compelled to complain of want of candor and ingenuity in his representation of the protestant doctrin in every particular , wherein he takes occasion to mention it : let us then separate the things that have no place of their own in this argument , than what is ambiguously proposed : after which , what remains may be distinctly considered . . what makes that enquiry in our way at this time , if it suffice to salvation , to believe , whatever life we lead ? who ever said so , taught so , wrote so , in england ? is this the doctrine of the church of england ? or of the presbyterians , or independents ? or whose is it ? or what makes it in this place ? if this be the way of gaining catholicks , let them that please make use of it . protestants dislike the way as much as the end. . what is the meaning of that which follows , if there be no value or merit in good works ? who ever taught that there is no value in good works ? that they are not commanded of god , that they are not accepted with him , that they are not our duty to be careful in the performance of ; that god is not honoured , the gospel adorned , the church and the world advantaged by them ? do all these things put no value on them ? for their merit , the expression being ambiguous , unscriptural , and , as commonly interpreted , derogatory to the glory of christ , and the grace of god ; we shall let it pass , as proper to his purpose : and much good may it do him with all that he gains by it . . if ( saith he ) god's laws be impossible to be kept ; but , who said so ? protestants teach indeed , that men in their own strength cannot keep the laws of god ; that the grace received in this life extends not to an absolute sinless perfection in their observation , which is inconsistent with the covenant of grace , and mens walking with god therein : but , that the laws of god were in their own nature impossible to be observed by them to whom they were first given , or , that they are yet impossible to be kept in that way of their sincere observation which is required in the gospel , protestants teach not that i know of . he proceeds . . if christ be not our law-maker and director of doing well , as well as our redeemer from ill . this is a little too open and plain ; doth he think any man will believe him , that protestants or presbyterians ▪ teach that christ is not our law-maker and director of doing well , &c. i dare say , he believes not one word of it himself , what confidence soever he hath taken upon him of imposing on the minds of weak and unstable men . other things mentioned by him are ambiguous ; as , if the seven sacraments be deemed vain , most of them , &c. of the things themselves , which they term sacraments , there is scarse any of them by protestants esteemed vain ; that one of unction , which they judge now useless , they only say , is an unwarrantable imitation of that which was useful : of the rest , which they reject , they reject not the things , but those things from being sacraments ; and a practice in religion is not presently condemned as vain , which is not esteemed a sacrament . there is no less ambiguity in that other supposition , if the real body of our lord be not bequeathed to his spouse in his last will and testament ; which no protestant ever questioned ; though there be great contests about the manner of the sacramental participation of that real body ; the same may be said of some other of his supposals . but i need not go over them in particular : i shall only say in general ; that take from amongst them , what is acknowledged to be the doctrine of the papists , and , as such , is opposed by the church of england , or by presbyterians ( as papal supremacy , sacrifice of the mass , monasteries of votaries under special and peculiar vows and rules , necessity of auricular confession , transubstantiation , which are the things gilded over by our author ) and prove that they were the doctrines , all , or any of them , whereby , and wherewith , the first preachers of christianity in this nation , or any where else in the old known world , displaced paganism ; and , for my part , i will immediately become his proselyte . what then can be bound with this rope of sand ? the first preachers of christianity preached the pope's supremacy , the mass , &c. by these doctrines paganism was displaced ; if these doctrines now be decryed , as lyes , why may not christ himself be esteemed a romance ? for neither did the first preachers of christianity , preach these doctrines ; nor was paganism displaced by them ; nor is there any ground to question the authority and truth of christ , in case those that do first preach him , do therewithal preach somewhat that is not true , when they bring along with them an authentick conviction of their own mistakes , as was manifested before , and might be made good by innumerable other instances . i shall not need to follow him in his declamation to the end of this paragraph ; the whole foundation of his many flourishes and pretences being totally taken out of the way . chap. vii . scripture vindicated . with his three following paragraphs , from pag. . unto . which have only a very remote and almost imperceptible tendency unto his purpose in hand , though they take up so long a portion of his discourse , ( seeming to be inserted , either to manifest his skill and proficiency in philosophical scepticism ▪ or to entertain his readers with such a delightful diversion , as that having taken in it a tast of his ingenuity , they may have an edge given their appetite unto that which is more directly prepared for them , ) i shall not trouble my self , nor detain my reader about . if any one a little skill'd in the discourses of these dayes , have a mind to vye conjectures and notions with him , to vellicate commonly received maxims and vulgar opinions , to exspatiate on the events of providence in all ages , he may quickly compose as many learned leaves ; only if he would be pleased to take my advice with him , i should wish him not to flourish and guild over things uncertain and unknown , to the disadvantage of things known and certain ; nor to vent conjectures about other worlds , and the nature of the heavenly bodies , derogatory to the love of god in sending his son to be incarnate , and to dye for sinners that live on this earthly globe . neither do i think it well done , to mix st. paul and his writings , in this scepticism , men●ioning in one place his fancy , in another his conceit , which he seems to oppose ; such is the reverence these men bear to the scripture and holy pen-men thereof ; so also , that whole scorn that he casts on man's dominion over the creatures , reflects principally on the beginning of genesis , and the eighth psalm . an unsearchable abysse in many of god's providential dispensations , wherein the infinite soveraignty , wisdom , and righteousness of him who giveth no account of his matters , are to be adored , we readily acknowledge ; and yet i dare freely say , that most of the things instanced in by our author , are capable of a clear resolution according to knowne rules and principles of truth revealed in the scripture ; such are , god's suffering the gentiles to wander so long in the dark , not calling them to repentance ; with the necessity of christian religion , and yet the punishment of many of the professors of it by the power of idolaters and pagans , as the church of the jews was handled of old by the assyrians , babylonians , and others . of this sort also , is his newly inserted story of the cirubrians , which it may be was added to give us a cast of his skill in the investigation of the original of nations , out of cambden ; for if that which himself affirms of them , were true , namely , that they were devout adoring the crucifix , which men usually are , when they cease to worship aright him who was crucified , ( the sin mentioned , rom. . . ) we need not much admire , that god gave them up to be scourged by their pagan adversaries ; but , not to mention that which is not only uncertain whether it be true , but is most probably false ; if our author had ever read the stories of those times , and the lamentations made for the sins of them , by gildas , salvianus , and others , he would have found enough to justifie god in his proceedings and dealing with his cirubrians , according to the known rules of his word . the like may be affirmed concerning the irish ; whose decay , like a true english-man , he dates from the interest of our kings there , and makes the progress of it commensurate to the prevalency of their authority ; when it is known to all the world , that by that means alone they were reclaimed from barbarism , and brought into a most flourishing condition , until by their rebellion and unparalleled cruelties ; they precipitated themselves into confusion and ruin . as for that which is insinuated as the conclusion , fit to be made out of all these premises , concerning the obscurity of god's nature , and the works of providence , viz. that we betake our selves to the infallible determination of the roman-church , i shall only say ; that as i know not , that as yet the pope hath undertaken pontifically to interpose his definitive sentence , in reference to these philosophical digladiations he glanceth on in the most part of his discourse ; so i have but little reason on the resignation required , to expect an illumination from that obscurity about the deity which he insists on ; finding the children , indeed the fathers , of that church , of all men in the earth most to abound in contradictory disputes and endless quarrels , about the very nature and properties of god himself . but his direct improvement of this long oration that he enters on , pag. . may be further considered . it is , in short , this ; that by the scripture no man can come to the knowledge of , and settlement in , an assurance of the truth ; nor is there any hope of relief for us in this sad condition , but that living papal oracle , which if we are wise we will acquiesce in , pag. , . to this purpose , men are furnished with many exceptions against the authority of the scripture , from the uncertainty of the rise and spring of it , how it came to us , how it was authorized , and by whom , the doubtfulness of its sense and meaning , the contemptible condition of the first pen-men of it , seeming a company of ignorant men imposing their own fancies , as oraculous visions upon us ; of whom how can we know that they were inspired , seeing they say no such things of themselves ; not those especially of the new-testament : besides , the many appearing contradictions with other humane infirmities , seeming unto criticks ever and anon to occurre in them ; and why might not illiterate men fail as well as , &c. with much more of the same nature and importance ; unto all which , i shall need to say nothing but that of job , vain man would be wise , but is like to the wild asse's colt. never is the folly of men more eminently display'd , than when confidence of their wisdom makes them bold and daring . i doubt not , but our author thought , that he had so acquitted himself in this passage , as that his readers must need resolve to quit the scripture , and turn papists ; but there is an evident gulf between these reasonings and popery , whereunto they will certainly carry any that shall give way to their force and efficacy : this is no other but down right atheism ; this the supplying of men with cavils against the scripture its power and authority do directly lead unto . our authour would have men to believe these suggestions , at least so farr as not to seek for rest and satisfaction in the scriptures , or he would not : if he would not ; to what end doth he mention them , and sport himself in shewing the luxuriancy of his wit and fancy in cavilling at the word of god ? is not this a ready way to make men atheists , if only by inducing them to an imitation of that , which by his example he commends unto them ? but it will be said , he only shews the uncertainties that are about scripture , that men may not expect by , or from them , deliverance from the darkness and ignorance before spoken of ? suppose then they come to be perswaded of such an uncertainty , what course shall they take ? apply themselves to the roman-church and they are safe . but seeing the being of a church , ( much less the roman-church ) hath no foundation in the light of nature , and men can never know any thing of it , especially of its prerogative , but by and from the scripture whose authority you have taught them to question , and made doubtful to them , what remains for rational men but to renounce both scripture and church , and betake themselves to your commendable piece of witty atheism . this is the old lurry , the scripture cannot be known , believed , understood , but by the church ; the church cannot be proved to have being , constitution , or authority but by the scripture ; and then if you doubt of the authority of that proof of the church , you must return to the church again ; and so on , until all faith and reason vanish , or men make shipwrack of their faith , and become brutish in their understanding , pretending to believe , they know neither what nor why . and this imployment of raising surmises and stirring up jealousies about the word of god , it's pen-men , and their authority , do men put themselves upon , i will not say , to gratifie the roman-court ; but , i will say , in obedience to their prejudices , lusts , and darkness , and saddest drudgery that any of the sons of men can be exercised withal . and if he would be believed , he professeth himself an anti-scripturist , and in that profession which he puts upon himself , an atheist . for my part , i am amazed to think how men are able to hold their pens in their hands , that an horrour of the work they have before them , doth not make them shake them out , when they are thus traducing the holy word of christ , and exciting evil surmises about it . should they deal with a man of any power and authority , they might not expect to escape his indignation ; even , to publish to all the world , that he is indeed an honourable person , but yet , if men will question his honour , truth , honesty , authority , and affirm him to be a cheat , thief , murderer , adulterer , they cannot see how they can be disproved ; at least , he would have a difficult task in hand , that should endeavour to free him from objections of that nature : yet thus men dare to deal with the scripture , that word which god hath magnified above all his name ; if this be the spirit that breathed in the apostles , the holy army of martyrs of old , and all the fathers of the primitive church , i am much mistaken ; nay , i am greatly so , if with one consent they would not denounce an anathema against such a defence of any religion whatever . but you will say , the same person defends also the scripture ; just as he in the poet did pelilius . me capitolinus convictore usus amicoque a puero est , causaque mea permulta rogatus fecit , & incolumnis laetor quod vivit in urbe ; sed tamem admiror quo pacto judicium illud fugerit . — a defence worse and more bitter then a down-right accusation . i am not now to observe what prejudice this excuse brings to the cause of our author , with all intelligent persons , having noted it once and again before ; nor what contentment protestants take , to see that the truth they profess cannot be shaken without inducing men to question the fundamental principles of christian religion ; and , if this course be persisted in , for ought that i can understand , the whole controversie between us and the romanists , must needs be at last reduced unto this head , whether the scripture of the old and new-testament , was given by divine inspiration . for the present , having , in the consideration of the general suppositions of this treatise , spoken before to this head , i shall not need to answer particular exceptions given in against its authority ; nor do i think it incumbent on me so to do ; unless our author own them for his sense , which if he be pleased to do , i promise him , if god give me life , to give him a distinct answer to every one of them , and all that is contained in them . moreover these things will again occurre in his . section , where he expresly takes the scripture to task , as to its pleas for judging of , and setling men in the truth . proceed we to his next section , p. . chap. viii . use of reason . sect. . this section is set apart for the cashiering of reason from having any hand in the business we deal about ; and the truth is , if our author can perswade us first to throw away our bibles , and then to lay aside the use of our reason , i suppose , there is no doubt but we shall become roman-catholicks . this work , it seems , cannot be effected , unless men are contented to part with scripture and reason ; all that whereby they are christians and men. but unless our author have emptyed circe's box of oyntment , whereby she transformed men into swine , he will confess it somewhat a difficult task that he hath undertaken . methinks one of these demands might suffice at once . but he presumes he hath put his countrey-men into a good humor , and knowing them free and open-hearted , he plyes them whilest they are warm . we have , indeed , in this section , as fair a flourish of words as in any other ; but , there can be but little reason in the words that men make use of , to plead against reason it self . and yet i am perswaded ▪ most readers think as well of this 〈◊〉 as any in the book . to whom the un●easonableness of this is evident , that of the others is so also ; and those who willingly imbibe the other parts of his discourse , will little strain at this . nothing is to be trusted unto prejudice . nor , if we will learn , are we to think strange of any thing . let us weigh then impartially , what is of reason in this discourse against the use of reason . what ever he pretends , he knows full well , that he hath no difference with any sort of protestants about finding out a religion by reason , and adhereing only to its dictates in the worship of god. all the world of protestants profess , that they receive their religion wholly by revelation from god , and no otherwise ; nor is it about ascribing a soveraignty to reason to judge of the particulars of religion so revealed , to accept or refuse them , according as that shall judge them suitable , or not , to its principles and liking . this is the soveraign dictate of reason , that whatever god reveals to be believed , is true , and as such must be embraced , though the bottom of it cannot be sounded by reason's line ; and that because 〈◊〉 reason of a man is not absolutely reason ▪ but being the reason of a man , is variously limitted , bounded , and made defective in its ratiocinations . an objective truth our reason supposes ▪ all that it hath to do , is but to judge of what is proposed to it according to the best principles that it hath ; which is all that god in that kind requires of us ; unless in that work wherein he intends to make us more then men , that is , christians , he would have us make our selves less then men , even as brutes . that in our whole obedience to god , we are to use our reason , protestants say indeed ; and moreover , that what is not done reasonably , is not obedience . the scripture is the rule of all our obedience , grace the principle enabling us to perform it ; but the manner of its performance must be rational , or it is not the supposition of rule or principle that will render any act of a man , obedience . religion , say protestants , is revealed in the scripture , proposed to the minds and wills of men for its entertainment by the ministry of the church ; grace to believe , and obey , is supernaturally from god ; but , as to the proposals of religion from scripture , they averre , that men ought to admit and receive them as men , that is , judge of the sense and meaning of them , discover their truth , and finding them revealed , acquiesce in the authority of him by whom they are first revealed . so far as men , in any things of their concernments that have a moral good or evil in them , do refuse , in the choice or refusal of them , to exercise that judging and discerning , which is the proper work of reason , they un-man themselves , and invert the order of nature ; dethroning the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of the soul , and causing it to follow the faculties that have no light but what they receive by and from it . it 's true , all our carnal reasonings against scripture-mysteries , are to be captivated to the obedience of faith ; and , this is highly reasonable , making only the less , particular , defective collections of reason , give place to the more noble , general and universal principles of it . nor is the denying of our reason any where required , as to the sense and meaning of the words of the scripture , but as to the things and matter signified by them . the former , reason must judge of , if we are men ; the latter , if , in conjunction with unbelief and carnal lusts , it tumultuate against it , is to be subdued to the obedience of faith. all that protestants in the business of religion ascribe unto men , is but this , that in the business of religion they are , and ought to be men ; that is , judge of the sense and truth of what is spoken to them according to that rule which they have received for the measure and guide of their understandings in these things . if this may not be allowed , you may make a herd of them , but a church never . let us now consider what is offered in this section about reason , wherein the concernment of any protestants may lye . as the matter is stated , about any one's setting up himself to be a new and extraordinary director unto men in religion , upon the account of the irrefutable reason he brings along with him , which is the spring and sourse of that religion which he tenders unto them ; i very much question , whether any instance can be given of any such thing from the foundation of the world. men have so set up indeed sometimes , as that good catholick vanine did not long since in france , to draw men from all religions ; but , to give a new religion unto men , that this pretension was ever solely made use of , i much question . as true religion came by inspiration from god , so all authors of that which is false , have pretended to revelation . such were the pretensions of minos , lycurgus , and nunia of old , of mahomet of late , and generally , of the first founders of religious orders in the roman-church ; all in imitation of real divine revelation , and in answer to indelible impressions on the minds of all men , that religion must come from god. to what purpose then , the first part of his discourse about the coyning of religion from reason , or the framing of religion by reason , is , i know not ; unless it be to cast a blind before his unwary reader , whilest he steals away from him his treasure , that is , his reason , as to its use in its proper place . though therefore there be many things spoken , unduly , and , because it must be said , untruly also , in this first part of his discourse , until toward the end of pag. . which deserve to be animadverted on ; yet , because they are such as no sort of protestants hath any concernment in , i shall pass them over . that wherein he seems to reflect any thing upon our principles , is in a supposed reply to what he had before delivered ; whereunto indeed it hath no respect or relation , being the assertion of a principle utterly distant from that imaginary one , which he had timely set up , and stoutly cast down before . it is this ; that we must take the words from christ and his gospel ; but the proper sense , which the words of themselves cannot carry with them , our own reason must make out . if it be the doctrine of protestants , which he intendeth in these words , it 's most disadvantagiously and uncandidly represented , which becomes not an ingenious and learned person . this is that which protestants affirm : religion is revealed in the scripture ; that revelation is delivered ▪ and contained in propositions of truth . of the sense of those words , that carry their sense with them , reason judgeth , and must do so ; or we are brutes ; and that every ones reason , so farr as his concernment lies in what is proposed to him . neither doth this at all exclude the ministry or authority of the church , both which are entrusted with it by christ , to propose the rules contained in his word unto rational creatures , that they may understand , believe , love , and obey them . to cast out this use of reason , with pretence of an antient sense of the words , which yet we know they have not about them , is as vain as any thing in this section , and that is vain enough . if any such antient sense can be made out , or produced , that is a meaning of any text that was known to be so , from their explication who gave that text , it is by reason to acquiesced in . neither is this to be make a man a bishop , much less a chief bishop , to himself . i never heard that it was the office of a bishop , to know , believe , or understand for any man , but for himself . it is his office , indeed , to instruct and teach men ; but they are to learn and understand for themselves , and so to use their reason in their learning . nor doth the variableness of mens thoughts and reasonings inferr any variableness in religion to follow ; whose stability and sameness depends on its first revelation , not , our manner of reception . nor doth any thing asserted by protestants , about the use of reason in the business of religion , interfere with the rule of the apostle about captivating our understandings to the obedience of faith , much less to his assertion , that christians walk by faith , and not by sight ; seeing that without it we can do neither the one nor the other . for i can neither submit to the truth of things to be believed , nor live upon them , or according unto them , unless i understand the propositions wherein they are expressed ; which is the work we assign to reason . for those who would resolve their faith into reason , we confess , that they overthrow not only faith , but reason it self ; there being nothing more irrational , than that belief should be the product of reason , being properly an assent resolved into authority , which if divine , is so also . i shall then desire no more of our author , nor his readers , as to this section , but only this , that they would believe , that no protestant is at all concerned in it : and so i shall not further interpose , as to any contentment they may find in its review or perusal . chap. ix . jews objections . the title of this third chapter is that , no religion , or sect , or way , hath any advantage over another , nor all of them over popery . to this we excepted before in general , that that way which hath the truth with it , hath in that wherein it hath the truth , the advantage against all others . truth turns the scales in this business , wherever and with whomsoever be found ; and if it lie in any way distant from popery , it gives all the advantage against it that need be desired . and with this only enquiry , with whom the truth abides , is this disquisition , what wayes in religion have advantage against others , to be resolved . but this course and procedure , for some reasons which he knows , and we may easily guess at , our author liked not ; and it it is now too late for us to walk in any path ▪ but what he has trodden before us , though it seem rather a maze , then a way for travellers to walk in , that would all pass on in their journey . his first section is entituled , light and spirit ; the pretence whereof , he treats after his manner , and cashiers from giving any such advantage as is inquired after . but neither yet are we arrived to any concernment of protestants . that which they plead as their advantage , is not the empty names of light and spirit ; but , the truth of christ revealed in the scripture . i know there are not a few who have impertinently used these good words , and scripture-expressions , which yet ought no more to be scoffed at by others , then abused by them . but that any have made the plea here pretended as to their settlement in religion , i know not . the truth is , if they have , it is no other upon the matter , but what our author cals them unto ; to a naked credo he would reduce them , and that differs only from what seems to be the mind of them that plead light and spirit , that he would have them resolve their faith irrationally into the authority of the church , they pretend to do it into the scripture . but what he aimes to bring men unto , he justifies from the examples of christians in antient times , who had to deal with jews and pagans , whose disputes were rational and weighty , and pusled the wisest of the clergy to answer , so that after all their ratiocination ended , whether it sufficed or no , they still concluded with this one word , credo ; which in logick and philosophy , was a weak answer , but in religion , the best and only one to be made . what could be spoken more untruely , more contumeliously , or more to the reproach of christian religion , i cannot imagine . it 's true indeed , that as to the resolution , satisfaction , and settlement of their own souls , christians alwayes built their faith , and resolved it into the authority o● god in his word ; but that they opposed their naked credo to the disputes of jews or pagans , or rested in that for a solution of their objections , is heavenly-wide ; as far from truth , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . i wonder any man who hath ever seen , or almost heard of the disputes and discourses of justin martyr , clemens alexandrinus , origen , theophilus antiochenus , athenagoras , tertullian , lactantius , chrysostom , austin , theodoret , and innumerable others , proving the faith of the christian religion against the jews from scripture , and the reasonableness of it against the pagans , with the folly and foppery of theirs , could on any account be induced to cast out such a reproach against them . but it seems jacta est alea , and we must go on ; and therefore to carry on the design of bringing us all to a naked credo , resolv'd into the authority of the present church , a thing never heard of , spoken of , nor that it appears dreamed of , by any of the ancient christians . the objections of the jews against the christian religion are brought on the stage , and an enquiry made , how they can be satisfactorily answered . his words are pag. . in any age of the christian-church a jew might say thus to the christians then living ; your lord and master was born a jew , and under the jurisdiction of the high priests ; these he opposed , and taught a religion contrary to moses , ( otherwise how comes there to be a faction ? ) but how could he justly do it ? no humane power is of force against god's , who spak● ( as you also grant ) by moses and the prophets ; and divine power it could not be , for god is not contrary to himself . and although your lord might say , as indeed he did , that moses spake of him as of a prophet to come , greater then himself ; yet , who shall judge that such a thing was meant of his person ? for suice that prophet is neither specifyed by his name , nor characteristical properties ( well said jew ) who could say it was he more then any other to come ? and if there were a greater to come then moses were , surely born a jew , he would , being come into the world , rather exalt that law to more ample glory , then diminish it . and if you will further contest , that such a prophet was to abrogate the first law , and bring in a new one , who shall judge in this case ? the whole church of the hebrews , who never dreamed of any such thing ; or one member thereof who was born a subject to their judgments . this , saith he , is the great occumenical difficulty , and he that in any age of christianity could either answer it , or find any bulwark to set against it , so that it should do no harm ; would easily either salve ; or prevent , all other difficulties , &c. the difficulty , as is evident , lay in this , that the authority and judgment of the whole church of the hebrews , lay against christ and the gospel . that church when christ conversed on earth , was a true church of god , the only church on earth , and had been so for years without interruption in its self , without competition from any other . it had its high priest confessedly instituted by god himself in an orderly succession to those dayes . the interpretation of scripture , it pretended , was trusted with it alone ; and traditions they had good store , whose original they pleaded from moses himself , directing them in that interpretation ; christ and his apostles , whom they looked upon as poor ignorant contemptible persons , came and preacht a doctrine , which that church determined utterly contrary to the scripture and their traditions : what shall now be answered to their authority which was unquestionably all that ever was , or shall be , entrusted with any church on the earth . our author tells us , that this great argument of the jews could not be any way warded or put by , but by recourse unto the churches infallibility , pag. . which , sit verbo venia , is so ridiculous a pretence , as i wonder how any block in his way could cause him to stumble upon it . what church , i pray ? the church of christians ? when that argument was first used by the jews against christ himself , it was not yet founded ; and if an absolute infallibility be supposed in the church , without respect to her adherence to the rule of infallibility , i dare boldly pronounce that argument indissoluble ; and that all christian religion must be therein discarded . if the jewish-church which had at that day , as great church-power , and prerogative , as any church hath or can have , were infallible in her judgment , that she made of christ and his doctrin ; there remains nothing but that we renounce both him and it , and turn either jews or pagans , as we were of old . here then , by our authors confession , lies a plain judgment , and definition of the only church of god in the world , against christ and his doctrine ; and it is certainly incumbent on us to see how it may be wa●ed . and this , i suppose , we cannot better be instructed in , then by considering , what was answered unto it by christ himself , his apostles , and those that succeeded them in the profession of the faith of the gospel . ( ) for christ himself ; its certain he pleaded his miracles , the works which he wrought , and the doctrine that he revealed : but withall , as to the jews with whom he had to do , he pleads the scriptures , moses and the prophets , and offers himself and his doctrine to be tryed , to stand or fall by their verdict , joh. . , . mat. . . luk. . . i say , besides the testimony of his works and doctrine , to their authority of the church , he opposeth that of the scripture , which he knew the other ought to give place unto . and it is most vainly pretended , by our author , in the behalf of the jews , that the messias , or great prophet to come , was not in the scripture specified by such characteristicall properties , as made it evident that jesus was the messiah ; all the descriptions given of the one , and they innumerable , undeniably centring in the other . the same course steered the apostle peter , act. . & . and expresly in his second epistle , chap. . v. , , . and paul , act. . , , &c. and of apollos , who openly disputed with the jews upon this argument , it is said , that he mightily convinced the jews , publickly shewing by the scripture , that jesus is the christ , act. . . and paul perswaded the jews concerning jesus at rome , both out of the law of moses , and out of the prophets , from morning until evening , act. . . concerning which labour and disputation , the censure of our author , p. . is very remarkable . there can be no hope , saith he , of satisfying a querent , or convincing an opponent , in any point of christianity , unless he will submit to the splendor of christs authority in his own person , and the church descended from him : which i take to be the reason , why some of the jews in rome , when st. paul laboured so much to perswade christ out of moses and the prophets , believed in him , and some did not . both the coherence of the words and design of the preface , and his whole scope manifest his meaning to be , that no more believed on him , or that some disbelieved , notwithstanding all the pains he took with them . and what was the reason of this failure ? why st. paul fixed on an unsuitable means of perswading them , namely moses and the prophets , when he should have made use of the authority of the church . vain , and bold man , that dares oppose his prejudices to the spirit and wisdom of christ in that great and holy apostle , and that in a way and work wherein he had the express pattern and example of his master ! if this be the spirit that rules in the roman-synagogue , that so puffes up men in their fleshly minds , as to make them think themselves wiser then christ and his apostles , i doubt not , but men will every day find cause to rejoyce , that it is cast out of them ; and be watchful , that it return to possess them no more . but this is that which galls the man ; the difficulty which he proposeth as insoluble by any wayes but an acquiescing in the authority of the present church , he finds assoyled in scripture on other principles . this makes him fall soul on st. paul , whom he finds most frequent in answering it from scripture , not considering , that , at the same time ▪ he accuseth st. peter of the like folly , though he pretend for him a greater reverence . however , this may be said in defence of st. paul , that by his arguments about christ and the gospel from moses and the prophets , many thousands of jews all the world over were converted to the faith ; when it 's hard to meet with an instance of one in an age , that will any way take notice of the authority of the roman-church . but to return ; this was the constant way used by the apostles , of answering that great difficulty pleaded by our author from the authority of the hebrew-church . they called the jews to the scripture , the plain texts and contexts of moses and the prophets , opposing them to all their churches real or pretended authority ; and all her interpretations pretended to be received by tradition from of old ; so fixing this for a perpetual standing rule to all generations , that the doctrine of the church is to be examined by the scripture , and where it is found contradictory of it , her authority is of no value at all , it being annexed unto her attendance on that rule . but it may be replyed , that the church in the dayes of the apostles was not yet setled , nor made firm enough to bear the weight that now may be laid upon it , as our author affirms ▪ pag. . so that now the great resolve of all doubts must be immediately upon the authority of the present church ; after that was once well cleared , the fathers of old pleaded that only in this case , and removed the objections of the jews by that alone . i am perswaded , though our author be a great admirer of the present church , he is not such a stranger to antiquity , as to believe any such thing . is the authority of the church pleaded by justine martyr , in that famous dispute with trypho the jew , wherein these very objections instanced by our author are thoroughly canvassed ? doth he not throughout his whole disputation prove out of the scriptures , and them alone , that jesus was the christ , and his doctrine agreeable unto them ? is any such thing pleaded by origen , tertullian , chrysostom , or any one that had to deal with the jews ? do they not wholly persist in the way traced for them by paul , peter , and apollos , mightily convincing the jews out of scripture ? let him consult their answers , he will not find them such poor empty jejune discourses , as that he supposes they might make use of , pag. . and to the proofs whereof , by texts of scripture , he sayes , the rabbies could answer by another interpretation of them . he will find another spirit breathing in their writings , another efficacy in their arguments , and other evidence in their testimonies , than it seems he is acquainted with ; and such as all the rabbies in the world are not able to withstand . and i know full well , that these insinuations , that christians are not able justifiably to convince , confute , and stop the mouths of jews from the scripture , would have been abhorred as the highest piece of blasphemy by the whole antient church of christ : and it is meet it should be so still by all christians . is there no way left to deny pretences ▪ of light and spirit , but by proclaiming , to the great scandal of christianity , that we cannot answer the exceptions of jews unto the person and doctrine of our saviour out of the scriptures ? and hath rome need of these bold sallyes against the vitals of religion ? is she no other way capable of a defence ? better she perished times , than that any such reproach should be justly cast on the lord jesus christ , and his gospel . but whatever our author thinks of himself , i have very good ground to conjecture , that he hath very little acquaintance with judaical antiquity , learning , or arguments ; nor very much with the scripture : and may possibly deserve on that account some excuse , if he thought those exceptions insoluble , which more learned men than himself know how to answer and remove , without any considerable trouble . this difficulty was fixed on by our author , that upon it there might be stated a certain retreat , and assured way of establishment against al of the like nature . this he assigns to be , the authority of the present church ; protestants , the scripture : wherein , as to the instance chosen out as most pressing , we have the concurrent suffrage of christ , his apostles , and all the antient christians ; so that we need not any further to consider the pretended pleas of light and spirit , which he hath made use of , as the orator desired his dialogist would have insisted on the stories of cerberus and cocytus , that he might have shewed his skill and activity in their confutation . for , what he begs in the way , as to the constitution of st. peter , and his successors in the rule of the church , as he produceth no other proof for it , but that doughty one , that , it must needs be so ; so , if it were granted him , he may easily perceive by the instance of the judaical church that himself thought good to insist upon , that it will not avail him in his plea , against the final resolution of our faith into the scripture , as its senses are proposed by the ministry of the church , and rationally conceived or understood . chap. x. protestant pleas. his sect. . p. . entituled independent and presbyterians pleas , is a merry one . the whole design of it seems to be , to make himself and others sport with the miscarriages of men in and about religion . whether it be a good work or no , that day that is coming will discover . the independents he divides into two parts , quakers and anabaptists . quakers he begins withal , and longest insists upon , being , as he saith , well read in their books , and acquainted with their persons ; some commendation he gives them , so farr as it may serve to the disparagement of others , and then falls into a fit of quaking , so expresly imitating them in their discourses , that i fear he will confirm some in their surmises , that such as he , both set them on work , and afterwards assisted them in it . for my part , having undertaken only the defence of protestancy and protestants , i am altogether inconcerned in the entertainment he hath provided for his readers , in this personating of a quaker , which he hath better done , and kept a better decorum in , than in his personating of a protestant ; a thing in the beginning of his discourse he pretended unto . the anabaptists , as farr as i can perceive , he had not medled with , unless it had been to get an advantage of venting his pretty answer to an argument against infant-baptism ; but the truth is , if the anabaptists had no other objections against infant-baptism , nor protestants no better answers to their objections then what are mentioned here by our author , it were no great matter what become of the controversie : but it is merriment , not disputation , that he is designing ; and i shall leave him to the solace of his own fancies . no otherwise , in the next place , doth he deal with the presbyterians : in personating of whom , he pours out a long senseless rapsody of words , many insignificant expressions , vehement exclamations , and uncouth terms , such , as to do them right , i never heard uttered by them in preaching , though i have heard many of them ; nor read written by them , though , i suppose , i have perused , at least as many of their books as our author hath done of the quakers . any one with half an eye , may see what it is which galls the man , and his party ; which , whether he hath done wisely to discover , his 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 will inform him , that is , the preaching of all sorts of protestants , that he declares himself to be most perplexed with , and therefore most labours to expose it to reproach and obloquy . and herein he deals with us , as in many of their stories , their demoniacks do with their exorcists ; discover which relick , or which saints name , or other engine in that bufle most afflicts them ; that so they may be paid more to the purpose . somewhat we may learn from hence ; fas est & ab hoste doceri . but he will make the presbyterians amends for all the scorn he endeavours to expose them to , by affirming , when he hath assigned a senseless harangue of words unto them , that the protestants are not able to answer their objections . certainly , if the presbyterians are such pitiful souls , as not to be able any beter to defend their cause , than they are represented by him here to do ; those protestants are beneath all consideration , who are not able to deal and grapple with them : and this is as it should be ; roman-catholicks are wise , learned , holy , angelical , seraphical persons ; all others , ignorant dolts , that can scarse say boe to a goose. these things considered in themselves are unserious trifles ▪ but seria ducunt . we shall see , presently , whither all this lurry tends ; for the sting of this whole discourseis fixed in the scripture . of the same importance is the next section , pag. . entituled protestants pro and con , wherin the differences that are amongst many in these nations are notably exagitated . i presume , in the intention of his mind upon his present design , he forgot that by a new change of name , the same things may be uttered , the same words used , of and concerning christians in general , ever since , almost , that name was known in the world . was there any thing more frequent among the pagans of old , than to object to christians their differences and endless disputes ? i wish our author would but consider , that which remains of the discourse of celsus on this subject : particularly , his charge on them , that at their beginnings , and whilst they were few , they agreed well enough ; but after they encreased , and were dispersed into several nations , they were every where at variance among themselves , whereas all sorts of men were at peace before their pretended reformation of the worship of god ; and he will find in it the sum of this , and the four following sections to the end of this chapter . and , if he will but add so much to his pains , as to peruse the excellent answers of origen in his third book ; he will , if not be perswaded to desist from urging the objections of celsus , yet discern what is expected from him to reply unto , if he persist in his way . but , if we may suppose , that he hath not that respect for the honour of the first christians ; methinkes , the intestine irreconcileable brauls of his own mothers children , should somewhat allay his heat and confidence , in charging endless differences upon protestants , of whom only i speak . yea , but you will say , they have a certain means of ending their controversies , protestants have none . and have they so ? the more shame for them to trouble themselves , and others , from one generation unto another with disputes and controversies , that have such a ready way to end them when they please ; and protestants are the more to be pittied , who perhaps are ready , some of them , at least , as farr as they are able , to live at peace . but why have not protestants a sure and safe way to issue all their differences ? why ; because every one is judge himself , and they have no umpire in whose decision they are bound to acquiesce . i pray , who told you so ? is it not the fundamental principle of protestantism , that the scripture determines all things necessary unto faith and obedience , and that in that determination ought all men to acquiess ? i know few roman-catholicks have the prudence , or the patience , to understand what protestancy is . and certain it is , that those who take up their knowledge of it , from the discourses and writings of such gentlemen as our author , know very little of it , if any thing at all : and those who do at any time get leave to read the books of protestants , seem to be so filled with prejudices against them , and to be so byassed by corrupt affections , that they seldom come to a true apprehension of their meanings ; for who so blind as he that will not see ? protestants tell them , that the scripture contains all things necessary to be believed and practised in the worship of god ; and those proposed with that perspicuity and clearness which became the wisdom of it's author , who intended to instruct men by it , in the knowledge of them ; and in this word and rule , say they , are all men to rest and acquiess . but , sayes our author , why then do they not do so , why are they at such fewds and differences amongst themselves ? is this in truth his business ? is it protestants he blames , and not protestancy ? mens miscarriages , and not their rule 's imperfection ? if it be so , i crave his pardon for having troubled him thus farr . to defend protestants for not answering the principles of their profession , is a task too hard for me to undertake , nor do i at all like the business ; let him lay on blame stil , until i say , hold. it may be , we shall grow wiser , by his reviling , as monica was cured of her intemperance , by the reproach of a servant . but i would fain prevail with these gentlemen , for their own sakes , not to cast that blame which is due to us , upon the holy and perfect word of god. we do not say , nor ever did , that who ever acknowledgeth the scripture to be a perfect rule , must upon necessity understand perfectly all that is contained in it ; that he is presently freed from all darkness , prejudices , corrupt affections , and enabled to judge perfectly and infallibly of every truth contained in it , or deduced from it . these causes of our differences belong to individual persons , not to our common rule : and , if because no men are absolutely perfect , and some are very perverse and froward , we should throw away our rule , the blessed word of god , and run to the pope for rule and guidance ; it is all one , as if at noon-day , because some are blind and miss their way , and some are drunk and stagger out of it , and others are variously entised to leave it , we should all conspire to wish the sun out of the firmament , that we might follow a will with a wisp . i know not what , in general , needs to be added further to this section . the mistake of it is palpable ; some particular passages may be remarked in it before we proceed : pag. . he pronounceth an heavy doom on the prelate protestants ; making them prevaricators , impostors , reprobates ; an hard sentence , but that it is hoped it will prove like the flying bird , and curse causeless ! but what is the matter ? why , in dealing with the presbyterians , they are forced to make use of those popish principles which themselves at first rejected , and so building them up again , by the apostles rule deserve no better terms ; but , what i pray are they ? why , the difference betwixt clergy and laity , the efficacy of episcopal ordination , and the authority of a visible church , unto which all men are to obey . there are but two things our author needs to prove to make good his charge . first , that these are popish principles . secondly , that as such they were at any time cast down and destroyed by prelate-protestants . i fear his mind was gone a little astray , or that he had been lately among the quakers , when he hammered this charge against prelate protestants . for as these have been their constant principles ever since the beginning of the reformation , so they have as constantly maintained , that in their true and proper sense they are not popish . nor is the difference about these things , between any protestants what-ever , any more then verbal . for those terms of clergy and laity , because they had been abused in the papacy , though antiently used , some have objected against them ; but for the things signified by them , namely , that in the church there are some teachers , some to be taught , bishops and flocks , pastors and people , no protestant ever questioned . our author then doth but cut out work for himself , without order from any protestant ; when he sets up an excuse for this change in them by a relinquishment of their first principles , and re-assuming popish ones for their defence against the presbyterians . he that set him a work may pay him his wages . protestants only tell him , that what was never done , needs never be excused . nor will they give him any more thanks for the plea he interposes in the behalf of episcopacy , against presbyterians and independents ; being interwoven with a plea for the papacy , and managed by such arguments as end in the exaltation of the roman-see ; and , that partly , because they know that their adversaries will be easily able to disprove the feigned monarchical government of the church under one pope ; and to prove that , that fancy really everts the true and only monarchical state of the church in reference to christ ; knowing that monarchy doth not signifie two heads , but one : and partly , because they have better arguments of their own to plead for episcopacy then those that he suggests here unto them ; or then any man in the world can supply them with , who thinks there is no communication of authority from christ to any on the earth , but by the hands of the pope . so that upon the whole matter , they desire him , that he would attend his own business , & not immix their cause in the least with his , which tends so much to their weakning & disadvantage . if this may be granted , which is but reasonable , they will not much be troubled about his commendation of the pope , pag. . as the substitute of christ , our only visible pastor , the chief bishop of the catholick church , presiding , ruling , and directing , in the place of christ , and the like elogium's : being resolved , when he goes about to prove any thing , that he sayes , that they will consider of it . but he must be better known to them then he is , before they will believe him on his bare word , in things of such importance ; and some suppose , that the more he is known , the less he will be believed . but that he may not for the present think himself neglected , we will run over the heads of his plea , pretended for episcopacy , really to assert the papal soveraignty . first , he pleads , that the christian church was first monarchical under one soveraign bishop , when christ who sounded it was upon the earth . true ; and so it is still . there is one sheepfold , one shepherd and bishop of our souls ; he that was then bodily present , having promised that presence of himself with his church to the end of the world , wherein he continues its one soveraign bishop . and , although the apostles after him , had an equality of power in the church among themselves , as bishops after them have also ; yet this doth not denominate the government of the church , aristocratical ; no more then the equality of the lords in parliament , can denominate the government of this kingdom to be so . the denomination of any rule is from him , or them , in whom the soveraignty doth reside , not from any subordinate rulers . so is the rule of the church monarchical . the subversion of this episcopacy , we acknowledge subverts the whole polity of the church , and so all her laws and rule , with the guilt whereof protestants charge the romanists . he addes , it will not suffice , to say , that the church is still under its head christ , who being in heaven , hath his spiritual influences over it . it will not indeed ; but yet we suppose , that his presence with it by his spirit and laws will suffice ; why should it not ? because the true church of christ , must have the very same head she had at first , or else she cannot be the same body : very good ; and so she hath ; the very same christ that was crucified for her , and not another ; but that head was man-god personally present in both his natures here on earth . but is he not , i pray , the same man-god , still ? the same christ , though the manner of his presence be altered ? this is strange , that being the same as he was , and being presert still , one circumstance of the manner of his presence , should hinder him from being the same head . i cannot understand the logick , reason , nor policy of this inference . suppose we should on these trisling instances , exclude jesus christ , who is the same yesterday , to day , and for ever , from being the same head of his church as he was ; will the pope supply his room ? is he the same head that christ was ? is he god-man , bodily present ? or what would you have us to conclude ? a visible head or bishop if the church hath not now over her as at first she had , she is not the same she was , and consequently in the way to ruine . this too much alters the question : at first it was , that she must have the same head she had at first , or she is not the same ; now , that she must have another head that is not the same ; or she is not the same . for the pope is not jesus christ. these arguings hang together like a rope of sand ; and what is built on this foundation ( which indeed is so weak , that i am ashamed further to contend with it ) will of its own accord fall to the ground . chap. xi . scripture ; and new principles . the next paragraph , p. . is a naughty one . a business it is spent in and about , that i have now often advised our author to meddle with no more : if he will not for the future take advice , i cannot help it ; i have shewed my good will towards him : it is his debating of the scripture and its authority which i intend . this with the intertexture of some other gentle suppositions is the subject of this and the following section . and because i will not tire my self and reader , in tracing what seems of concernment in this discourse , backward and forward , up and down , as it is by him dispersed and disposed to his best advantage in dealing with unwary men ; i shall draw out the principles of it , that he may know them where ever he meets them , though never so much masked and disguised , or never so lightly touched on , and also what judgment to pass upon them . their foundation being so taken away , these sections , if i mistake not , will sink of themselves . some of these principles are co-incident with those general ones insisted on in the entrance of our discourse ; others of them are peculiar to the design of these paragraphs ; the first i shall only point unto , the latter briefly discuss . . it is supposed in the whole discourse of these sections ; that from the roman - church so stated , as now it is , or from the pope , we here in england first received the gospel ; which is the romanists own religion , and theirs by donation from them , whom they have here pleased to accommodate with it . this animates the whole , and is besides the special life of almost every sentence . a lifeless life ; for , that there is not a syllable of truth in it , hath been declared before ; nor , were it so , that by the ministry of the roman-church of old , the faith was first planted in these nations , would that one inch promote our author's pretensions , unless he could prove , that they did not afterwards lose , or corrupt , at least , that which they communicated unto us ; which he knows to be the thing in question , and not to be granted upon request , though made in never so handsome words . to say then , that the gospel is the romanists own religion , from them you had it , you contend about that which is none of your own ; hear them whose it is , from whom you had it , who have the precedency before you ; is but to set up scare-crows to fright fools and children : men who have any understanding of things past , know that all this bluster and noyse comes from emptiness of any solid matter or substance to be used in the case . . it is also doughtily supposed , that whatever is spoken of the churnh in the scripture , belongs to the roman - church , and that alone ; the priviledges , the authority , the glory of the church are all theirs ; as the madd-man at athens thought all the ships to be his , that came into the harbour . i suppose , he will not contend , but that , if you deny him this , all that he hath said besides , is to little purpose . and , i believe , he cannot but take it ill , that any of his readers should call him to an account , in that which he every where puts out of question . but this , he knew well enough , that all protestants deny ; that they grant no one priviledge of the catholick church as such , to belong to the roman . all , that any of them will allow her , is but to be a putrid corrupt member of it ; some say , cut off , dead , and rotten . but yet that the catholick church and the roman are the same , must be believed , or you spoil all his market . the church is before the gospel , gives testimony unto it , none could know it , but by her authority , nothing can be accepted as such , but what she sets her seals unto ; so that , to destroy the church , is to destroy the gospel ? what then , i pray ? suppose all this , and all the rest of his assertions about the church , pag. , , &c. to be true , as some of them are most blasphemously false ; yet , what is all this to his purpose ? why this is the roman-church of which all these things are spoken . it may be , the roman-church indeed , of which much of it is spoken , even all that is sinfully derogatory to the glory of christ and his apostles upon whom and whose authority the church is built , and not their authority on it , ephes. . , , . but , what is truly spoken in the scripture of the church , doth no more belong to the roman , then to the least assembly of believers under heaven ; wherein the essence of a true church is preserved ; if it belongs unto it at all . and yet this rude pretence , and palpable artifice is the main engine in this section , applyed to the removal of men from the basis of the scripture . the church , the church ! the roman-church , the roman-church ! and these forsooth are supposed to be one and the same ; and the pope to have monopolized all the priviledges of the church , contrary to express statute-law of the gospel . hence he pretends , that if to go out from the catholick be evil , then not to come into the roman is evil ; when indeed the most ready way to go out of the catholick , is to go into the roman . . moreover , it is taken for granted , that the roman - church is every way what it was , when first planted . indeed , if it were so , it would deserve as much particular respect as any church of any city in the world , and , that would be all : as it is , the case is altered . but its unalteredness being added to the former supposition of its oneliness and catholicism , it is easie to see what sweet work a witty man , as our author is , may make with this church among good company . many and many a time have the romanists attempted to prove these things ; but failing in their attempt , they think it now reasonable to take them for granted . the religion they now profess , must be that which first entered england ; and there , saith our author , it continued in peace for a thousand years ; when the truth is , after the entrance of their religion , that is , the corruption of christianity by papal usurpations , these nations never passed one age without tumults , turmoils , contentions , disorders ; nor many without wars , bloud and devastations , and those arising from the principles of their religion . . to this is added , that the bible is the pope's own book , which none can lay claim to , but by and from him . this will be found to be a doubtful assertion , and it will be difficult to conclude aright concerning it . he that shall consider , what a worthy person the pope is represented to be by our author , especially , in his just dealing and mercifulness , so , that he never did any man wrong ; and , shall take notice how many he hath caused to be burned to death , for having and using the bible without his consent , must need suppose , that it is his book . for surely , his heavenly mind , would not have admitted of a provocation to such severity ; unless they had stoln his goods out of his possession . but on the other side , he that shall weigh aright his vilifying & under-valuing of it , his preferring himself and church before and above it ; seeing we are all apt to set a high price upon that which is our own ; may be ready to question whether indeed he have such a property in it as is pretended . having somewhat else to do , i shall not interpose my self in this difference , nor attempt to determine this difficulty , but leave it as i find it , free for every man to think as he seeth cause . . but that which is the chief ingredieet of these sections , is the plea , that we know not the scripture to be the word of god , but by the church , that is , the present church of rome ; which he manageth by urging sundry objections against it , and difficulties which men meet withall in their enquiry , whether it be so or no. nor content with that plea alone , he interweaves in his discourse , many expressions and comparisons , tending directly to the slighting and contempt , both of its penmen , and matter , which is said to be , laws , poems , sermons , histories , letters , visions , several fancies in a diversity of composure ; the whole , a book whereby men may as well prove their negative , in denying the immortality of the soul , heaven or hell , or any other thing , which by reason of many intricacies , are very difficult , if not impossible at all to be understood ; see p. , , , &c. concerning all which , i desire to know , whether our author be in good earnest or no ; or , whether he thinks as he writes ; or , whether he would only have others to believe what he writes , that he may serve his turn upon their credulity . if he be in good earnest indeed , he calls us to an easie , welcome imployment ; namely , to defend the holy word of god , and the wisdom of god in it , from such slight and trivial exceptions , as those he layes against them . this path is so trodden for us by the antients , in their answers to the more weighty objections of his predecessors in this work , the pagans , that we cannot well erre or faint in it : if we are called to this task , namely , to prove that we can know and believe the scriptrue to be the word of god , without any respect to the authority or testimony of the present church of rome ; that no man can believe it to be so , with faith divine and supernatural upon that testimony alone ; that the whole counsel of god in all things to be believed or done , in order to our last end , is clearly delivered in it ; and that the composure of it , is a work of infinite wisdom , suited to the end designed to be accomplished by it , that no difficulties in the interpretation of particular places , hinder the whole from being a compleat and perfect rule of faith and obedience , we shall most willingly undertake it , as knowing it to be as honourable a service and employment as any of the sons of men can in this world be called unto . if indeed himself be otherwise minded , and believes not what he says , but only intends to entangle men by his sophistry , so to render them plyable unto his further intention , i must yet once more perswade him to desist from this course . it doth not become an ingenious man , much lesse a christian , and one that boasts of so much mortification as he doth , to juggle thus with the things of god. in the mean time , his reader may take notice , that so long as he is able to defend the authority , excellency , and usefulness of the scripture , this man had nothing to say to him , as to the change of his religion from protestancy to popery . and when men will be perswaded to let that go as a thing uncertain , dubious , useless , it matters not much where they go themselves . and for our authour , methinks , if not for reverence to christ , whose book we know the scriptures to be ; yet for the devotion he bears the pope , whose book he sayes it is , he might learn to treat it with a little more respect ; or at least prevail with him , to send out a book not liable to so many exceptions , as this is pretended to be . however , this i know , that though his pretence be to make men papists , the course he takes is the readyest in the world to make them atheists ; and whether that will serve his turn or no , as well as the other , i know not . . we have not yet done with the scripture . that the taking it for the only rule of faith , the only determiner of differences , is the only cause of all our differences , and which keeps us in a condition of having them endless ; is also pretended and pleaded . but , how shall we know this to be so ? christ and his apostles were absolutely of another mind ; and so were moses and the prophets , before them . the antient fathers of the primitive church walked in their steps , and umpired all differences in religion , by the scriptures ; opposing , confuting , and condemning errors and heresies by them ; preserving , through their guidance , the unity of the spirit in the bond of peace . in these latter dayes of the world , which surely are none of the best , we have a few unknown persons come from rome , would perswade us , that the scripture , and the use of it , is the cause of all our differences , and the means of making them endless . but why so , i pray ? doth it teach us to differ , and contend ? doth it speak contradictions , and set us at variance ? is there any spirit of dissension breathing in it ? doth it not deliver what it commands us to understand , so as it may be understood ? is there any thing needful for us to know , in the things of god , but what it reveales ? who can tell us , what that is ? but do we not see , de facto , what differences there are amongst you , who pretend , all of you , to be guided by scripture ? yea , and we see also , what surfeitings and drunkenness there is in the world ; but yet , do not think , bread , meat , and drink to be the causes of them ; and yet they are to the full as much so , as the scriptures are of our differences ▪ pray , sir , do not think , that sober men will cast away their food , and starve themse●●es , because you tell them , that some continually abuse and surfeit on that very kind of food which they use . nor will some mens abuse of it , prevail with others to cast away the food of their souls , if they have any design to live eternally . . the great safety and security that there is in committing our selves as to all the concernments of religion , unto the guidance , rule and conduct of the pope , is another great principle of this discourse . and here our author falls into a deep admiration of the popes dexterity in keeping all his subjects in peace and unity , and subjection to him ; there being no danger to any one for fors●king him , but only that of excommunication . the contest is between the scripture and the pope . protestants say , the safest way for men , in reference to their eternal condition , is to believe the scripture , and rest therein ; the romanists say the same , of the pope . which will prove the best course , methinks , should not be hard to determine . all christians in the world ever did agree , that the scripture is the certain infallible word of god , given by him on purpose , to reveal his mind and will unto us . about the pope there were great contests ever since he was first taken notice of in the world . nothing , i confess , little or low , is spoken of him . some say , he is the head and spouse of the church , the vicar of christ , the successor of peter , the supreme moderator of christians , the infallible judge of controversies , and the like ; others , again , that he is antichrist , the man of sin , a cruel tyrant , and persecutor , the evill servant characterized , mat. . , , , . but all , as far as i can gather , agree , that he is a man ; i mean , that almost all popes have been so ; for about every individual , there is not the like consent . now the question is , whether we shall rest in the authority and word of god , or in the authority and word of a man , as the pope is confessed to be ? and , whether is like to yield us more security in our assiance ? this being such another difficult matter and case , as that before mentioned , about the bibles being the popes book , shall not be by me decided ; but left to the judgment of wiser men . in the mean time , for his feat of government , it is partly known what it is ; as also what an influence into the effects of peace mentioned that gentle means of excommunication hath had . i know one that used in the late times to say of the excommunication in scotland , he would not care for their devil , were it not for his horn ; and , i suppose , had not papal excommunication been alwayes attended with warrs , bloud , seditions , conspiracies , depositions and murders of kings , fire and faggot , according to to the extent of their power , it would have been lesse effectual then our author pretends it to have been . sir , do but give christians the liberty that christ hath purchased for them , lay down your carnal weapons , your whips , racks , prisons , halters , swords , faggots , with your unchristian subtilties , slanders , and fleshly machinations , and we and you shall quickly see what will become of your papall peace and power . these are the goodly principles , the honest suppositions of the discourse which our author ends his third book withal . it could not but have been a tedious thing , to take them up by pieces , as they lie scattered up and down , like the limbs of medea's brother , cast in the way to retard her persuers . the reader may now take a view of them together , and thence of all that is offer'd to perswade him to a relinquishment of his present profession and religion . for the stories , comparisons , jests , sarcasms , that are intermixed with them , i suppose he will know how to turn them to another use . some very few particulars need only to be remarked . as , . no man can say what ill popery did in the world untill henry the eighths dayes . strange ! when it is not only openly accused , but proved guilty of almost all the evill that was in the christian world , in those dayes ; particularly of corrupting the doctrine and worship of the gospel , and debauching the lives of christians , . with the roman catholicks unity ever dwelt . never ; the very name of roman catholick , appropriating catholicism to romanism , is destructive of all gospel-unity . . some protestants say , they love the persons of the romanists , but hate their religion : the reason is plain , they know the one , and not the other . no , they know them both ; and the pretence , that people are kept with , as from knowing what the religion of the romanists is ; is vain , untrue ; and , as to what colour can possibly be given unto it , such an infant in comparison of that vast giant , which of the same kind lives in the romish territories , that it deserves not to be mentioned . . protestants are beholding to the catholicks , ( that is , romanists ) for their universities , ben●fices , books , pulpits , gospel . for some of them , not all ; for the rest , as the israelites were to the aegyptians for the tabernacle they built in the wilderness . . the pope was antiently believed sole judge and general pastor over all . prove it ; ask the antient fathers , and councils , whether they ever heard of any such thing ? they will universally return their answer in the negative . . the scripture you received from the pope . not at all , as hath been proved ; but from christ himself , by the ministry of the first planters of christianity . . you cannot believe the scriptures to be the word of god , but upon the authority of the church . we can and do , upon the authority of god himself , and the influence of the churches ministry or authority into our believing , concerns not the church of rome , . you account them that brought you the scriptures , as lyars . no otherwise then as the scripture affirms every man to be so ; not in their ministry , wherein they brought the word unto us . . the gospel separate from the church can prove nothing . yes , it 's self to be sent of god ; and so doing , is the foundation of the church . sundry other passages of the like nature might be remarked , if i could imagine any man would judge them worthy of consideration . chap. xii . story of religion . the fourth and last part of our author discourse , is spent in two stories : one of religion ; the other of himself . his first of religion , is but a summary of what was diffused through the others parts of his treatise , being insinuated piece-meal , as he thought he could make any advantage of it to his purpose . two things he aims to make his readers believe , by it ; first , that we in these nations had our religion from rome ; and secondly , that it was the same which is there now professed . those whom he tels his tale unto , are , as he professeth , such as are ignorant of the coming into , and progress of religion amongst us ; wherein he deals wisely , and as became him ; seeing he might easily assure himself , that those who are acquainted before his information with the true state of these things , would give little credit to what he nakedly averrs upon his own authority . for my part , i shall readily acknowledg , that for ought appears in this book , he is a better historian then a disputant ; and hath more reason to trust to his faculty of telling a tale , than managing of an argument . i confess also , that a slight and superficial view of antiquity , especially , as flourished over by some roman-legendaries , is the best advantage our adversaries have to work on ; as a thorough judicious search of it , is fatal to their pretensions . he , that from the scriptures , and the writings extant of the first centuries , shall frame a true idea of the state and doctrine of the first churches , and then observe the adventitious accessions made to religion in the following ages , partly by mens own inventions , but chiefly by their borrowing from , or imitation of , the jews and pagans , will need very little light or help from artificial arguments to discover the defections of the roman-party , and the true means whereby that church arrived unto its present condition . to persue this at large is not a work to be undertaken in this seambling chase . it hath been done by others , and those , who are not unwilling to be at the cost and pains in the disquisition of the truth , which it is really worth , may easily know where to find it , our present task is , but to observe our author's motions , and to consider whether what he offers , hath any efficacy towards that he aims at . a triple conversion he assigns to this nation . the first by joseph of arimathea ; about which , as to matter of fact , we have no contest with him . that the gospel was preached here in the apostles daies either by him , or some other evangelist , is certain , and taken for granted on all hands ; nor can our author pretend that it came hither from rome ; but grants it to have come immediately from palestine . whether this doth not overthrow the main of his plea in his whole discourse , concerning our dependance upon rome for our religion , i leave to prudent men to judge . thus farr then we are equal . as the gospel came to rome , so it came to england ; to both from the same place , and by the same authority , the same ministry . all the question is , whether religion they brought with them ? that now professed in england , or that of rome ? if this be determined , the business is at an issue ; we are perswaded joseph brought no other religion with him , then what was taught by peter and paul , and the rest of the apostles and evangelists in other parts of the world. what religion men taught vivâ voce in any age , is best known by their writings , if they left any behind them . no other way have the romanists themselves , nor other do they use , in judging what was the doctrine of the fathers in the following ages . the writings of the apostles are still extant ; by them alone can we judge of the doctrine that they preached . that doctrine then unquestionably taught joseph in brittain ; and that doctrine ( blessed be god ) is still owned and professed amongst us . all , and only what is contained in their writings is received with us , as necessary to salvation . this conversion was wholly ours . quod antiquissimum id verissimum . being the first , it was certainly the best . our author indeed tells us of crosses , shrines , oratories , altars , monasteries , vigils , ember● , honouring of saints , ( you must suppose all in the roman-mode ) making oblations and orisons for the dead , and that this was the religion in those dayes planted amongst us . if this be so , i wonder what we do to keep the bible , which speaks not one word of that religion , which the apostles and apostolical men preached . strange ! that in all their writings they should not once mention the main parts and duties , of the doctrines and worship which they taught and propagated ; that paul in none of his epistles , should in the least give the churches any direction in , or concerning , the things and ways wherein their worship principally consisted and their devotion was chiefly exercised ? but how comes our author to know , that these things , in the roman-mode , were brought into england at the first entrance of christianity ? would he would give us a little information from what writings or monuments of those times he acquired his knowledge . i know it is unreasonable to put an historian to his oath ; but yet , unless he can plead , that he received his acquaintance with things that are so long past by inspiration , as moses wrote the story of the creation and ages before the floud , being destitute of any other monuments or testimony that might give evidence to what he says , i hope he will not be offended , if we suspend our belief . solus enim hoc ithacus nullo sub teste canebat : this first conversion then , as was said is wholly ours , it neither came from rome , nor knew any thing of that which is the present religion of rome , wherein they differ from us . that which is tearmed our second conversion , is the preaching of damianus and fugatius , sent hither by eleutherius bishop of rome , in the dayes of king lucius , in the year . as our author saith , beda . nauclerus , baronius , . henricus de erfordia , . in the dayes of aurelius , or commodus . i have many reasons to question this whole story . and sundry parts of it , as those about the epistles of lucius and eleutherius are palpably fictitious . but let us grant , that about those dayes , fugatius and damianus , came hither from rome , and furthered the preaching of the gospel , which had taking footing here so long before , and was no doubt preserved amongst many ; we know god in his providence used many various wayes for the propagating of his gospel ; sometimes he did it by merchants , sometimes by souldiers , sometimes by captives ; as a poor maid gave occasion to the conversion of a whole province . what will hence ensue to the advantage of the pretensions of the romanists ? the religion they planted here , was , doubtless , that , ( and no other ) which was then professed at rome , and in most other places in the world , with some small differences in outward observances , wherein each church took liberty to follow traditions or prudential reasonings of its own . when our author , or any for him , can make it appear , that any thing material in that which we call popery , was in those days taught , believed , preached , or known among the churches of christ , they will do somewhat to the purpose , but the present flourish about the catholick faith , planted here , which no man ever denyed , is to none at all . it was the old catholick faith we at first received , and therefore not the present romish . after those dayes wherein this propagation of christianity by the ministry of fugatius and damianus in this province , is supposed to have fallen out ; a sad decay in faith and holiness of life , befel professors , not only in this nation , but for the most part , all the world over ; which , especially , took place after god had graciously in the conversion of the emperours to the faith , intrusted them with outward peace and prosperity . i desire not to make naked their miscarriages , whom i doubt not , but in mercy , god hath long since pardoned ; but it cannot be denyed , that the stories of those dayes are full of nothing more then the oppressions , luxury , and sloth of rulers , the pride , ambition , and unseemly scandalous contests for preheminence of sees and extent of jurisdiction , among bishops , the sensuality and ignorance of the most of men . in this season it was , that the bishop of rome advantaged by the prerogative of the city , the antient seat and spring of the empire , began gradually to attempt a super-intendency over his brethren , according as any advantages for that end ( which could not be wanting in the intestine tumults and seditions wherewith christians were turmoyled ) offered themselves unto him . where-ever an opportunity could be spyed , he was still interposing his umpirage , and authority amongst them , and that sometimes not without sinful ar●ifices , and down-right forgeries , wherein he was alwayes accepted , or refused , according as the interest of them required with whom he had to do . what the lives of priests and people , what their knowledge and profession of the gospel , of the poor brittains , especially , in those dayes were , our own countrey-man gildas doth sufficiently testifie and bewail . salvianus doth the same for other parts of the world . and generally , all the pious men of those ages ; whilst the priests strove for soveraignty and power , the people perished through ignorance and sensuality . neither can we possibly have a more full conviction of what was the state of christians and christianity in those dayes in the world , than may be seen and read in the horrible judgments of god wherewith he punished their wickedness and ingratitude . when he could no longer bear the provocations of his people , he stirred up those swarms of northern nations goths , vandals , hunnes , franks , longobards , alans , saxons , &c. some few of them arians , the most pagans , and poured them out upon the western empire , to the utter ruine of it , and the division of the provinces amongst themselves . after a while , these fierce , cruel and barbarous nations , having executed the judgments of god against the ungodliness of men , seating themselves in the warmer climates of those whom they had in part subdued , in part exstirpated , as is the manner of all persons in transmigration from one countrey to another , began to unlearn their antient barbarism , and to encline to the manners , fashions , and religion of the people , to whom they were come , and with whom after their heats were over and lusts satisfied , they began to incorporate and coalesce ; together , i say , with their manners , they took up by various wayes and means the religion which they did profess . and the bishop of rome having kept his outward station in that famous city during all those turmoils , becoming venerable unto them , unto him were many applications made , and his authority was first signally advanced by this new race of christians . the religion they thus took up , was not a little degenerated from its primitive apostolical purity and splendor . and they were among the first , who felt the effects of their former barbarous inhumanity , in their sedulous indeavour to destroy all books and learning out of the world , which brought that darkness upon mankind ▪ wherewith they wrestled for many succeeding generations . for having themselves made an intercision of the current and progress of studies and learning , they were forced to make use in their entertainment of christianity , of men meanly skilled in the knowledg of god or themselves , who some of them , knew little more of the gospel , then what they had learned in the outward observances and practises of the places where they had been educated . towards the beginning of this hurry of the world , this shuffling of the nations , was the province of brittain , not long before , exhausted of it stores of men and arms , and defeated by the romans , invaded by the saxons , picts , angles , and others out of germany , who accomplishing the will of god , exstirpated the greatest part of the british nation , and drove the remainders of them to shelter themselves in the western mountainous parts of this island . these new inhabitants after they were somewhat civilized ▪ by the vicinity of the provincials ; and had got a little breathing from their own intestine feuds , by fixing the limits of their leader's dominions , which they called kingdoms , began to be in some preparedness to receive impressions of religion , above that rude paganism which they had before served satan in . these were they to whom came austine from rome ; a man , as farr as appears by the story , little acquainted with the mystery of the gospel ; yet one whom it pleased god gratiously to use , to bring the scripture amongst them that inexhaustible fountain of light and truth ; and by which those to whom he preached might be infallibly freed from any mixture of mistakes , that he might offer to them . that he brought with him a doctrine of observances , not formerly known in brittain , ●s notorious , from the famous ▪ story of those many professors of christianity 〈◊〉 which he caused to be murdered by pagans , for not submitting to his power , and refusing to practise according to his traditions ; whose unwillingness to the ●●ain if they could have otherwise chosen , is that , which , i suppose , our author call's their disturbing good st. austine in his pious work . but you neither will this conversion of the saxons begun by austine the monk , at all advantage our author as to his pretensions . the religion he taught here , as well as he could , was doubtless no other than that which at those dayes was profest at rome ; mixtures of humane traditions , worldly policies , observances trenching upon the superstitions of the gentiles , in many things it had then revived ; but however it was farr enough from the present romanism , if the writers and chief bishops of those dayes knew what was their religion , papal supremacy and infallibility , transubstantiation , religious veneration of images in churches , with innumerable other prime fundamentals of popery , were as great strangers at rome in the dayes of gr●gory the great , as they are at this day to the church of england . after these times , the world continuing still in troubles , religion began more and more to decline , and fall off from its pristine purity . at first , by degrees insensible and almost imperceptible , in the broaching of new opinions and inventing new practises in the worship of god. at length , by open presumptuous transgressions of its whole rule and genius , in the usurpation of the pope of rome and impositions of his authority on the ne●ks of emperours , kings , princes , and people of all sorts . by what means this work was carried on , what advantages were taken for , what instruments used in it , what opposition by kings and learned men was made unto it , what testimony was given against it by the blood of thousands of martyrs , others have at large declared ; nor will my present design admit me to insist on particulars . what contests , debates , tumults , warrs , were by papall pretensions raised in these nations , what shameful intreating of some of the greatest of our kings , what absolutions of subjects from their allegiance , with such like effluxes of an abundant apostolical piety , this nation in particular was exercised with from rome , all our historians sufficiently testify . tantaemolis erat romanam condere gentem ! the truth is , when once romanism began to be enthroned , and had driven catholicism out of the world , we had very few kings that past their days in peace and quietnesse from contests with the pope , or such as acted for him , or were stirred up by him . the face in the mean time of christianity was sad and deplorable . the body of the people being grown dark , and profane , or else superstitious , the generality of the priests and votaries ignorant and vitious in their conversations , the oppressions of the hildebrandine faction intolerable , religion dethroned , from a free generous obedience according to the rule of the gospell , and thrust into cells , orders , self-invented devotions and forms of worship , superstitious and unknown to scripture and antiquity , the whole world groaned under the apostacy it was fallen into , when it was almost too late ; the yoak was so fastned to their necks and prejudices so fixed in the minds of the multitude . kings began to repine , princes to remonstrate their grievances , whole nations to murmure , some learned men to write and preach against the superstitions and oppressions of the church of rome . against all which complaints and attempts , what means the popes used for the safe-guarding their authority , and opinions subservient to their carnal worldly interests , deposing some , causing others to be murdered that were in supream power , bandying princes and great men one against another , exterminating others with fire and sword , is also known unto all , who take any care to know such things , what ever our author pretends to the contrary . this was the state , this the peace , this the condition of most nations in europe , and these in particular where we live ; when occasion was administred in the providence of god , unto that reformation which in the next place he gives us the story of . little cause had he to mind us of this story ; little to boast of the primitive catholick faith ; little to pretend the romish religion to have been that which was first planted in these nations ; his concernments lye not in those things , but only in that tyrannical usurpation of the popes , and irregular devotions of some votarys , which latter ages produced . chap. xiii . reformation . the story of the reformation of religion he distributes into three parts , and allots to each a particular paragraph , the first is of its occasion and rise in general , the second of its entrance into england , the third of its progresse amongst us . of the first , he gives us this account : the pastor of christianity upon some sollicitation of christian princes for a general compliance to their design , sent forth in the year . a plenary indulgence in favour of the cruciata against the turk . albertus the archbishop of ments being delegated by the pope to see it executed , committed the promulgation of it to the dominican fryers ; which the hermits of st. augustine in the same place to●k ill , especially martin luther , &c. who vexed that he was neglected , and undervalued , fell a-writing and preaching first against indulgencies , then against the pope . &c. he that had no other acquaintance with christian religion , but what the scriptures and antient fathers will afford him , could not bu● be amazed at the canting language of this story ; it being impossible for him to understand any thing of it aright . he would admire who this pastor of christianity should be , what this plenary indulgence should mean , what was the preaching of plenary indulgence by dominicans , and what all this would avail against the turk . i cannot but pitty such a poor man to think what a loss he would be at ▪ like one taken from home and carried blindfold into the midst of a wildernesse , where when he opens his eies , every thing scares him , nothing gives him guidance or direction . let him turn again to his bible , and fathers of the first ●or years , and i will undertake he shall come off from them , as wise , as to the true understanding of this story , 〈◊〉 he went unto them . the scene in religion is plainly changed , and this appearance of an universal pastor , plenary indulge●●es , dominicans and cruciata's , all marching against the turk , must needs affright a man accustomed only to the scripture-notions of religion , and those embraced by the primitive church . and i do know , that if such a man could get together two or three of the wisest romanists in the world , which were the likeliest way for him to be resolved in the signification of these hard names , they would never well agree to tell him what this plenary indulgence is . but for the present , as to our concernment , let us take these things , according to the best understanding , which their framers and founders have been pleased to give us of them ; the story intended to be ●old , was indeed neither so , nor so . there was no such solicitation of the pope by christian princes at that time , as is pretended ; no cruciata against the turk undertaken ; no attempt of that nature ensued , not a penny of indulgence-money , laid out to any such purpose . but the short of the matter is , that the church of mentz , being not able to pay for the archiepiscopal pall of albertus from rome , having been much exhausted by the purchase of one or two for other bishops , that died suddenly before , the pope grants to albert a number of pardons , of , to say the truth , i know not what , to be sold in germany , agreeing with him , that one half of the gain he would have in his own right , and the other for the pall . now the pope's merchants that used to sell pardons for him in former dayes were the preaching friers , who upon holy-dayes , and festivals , were wont to let out their ware to the people , and in plain terms , to cheat them of their money ; and well had it been , if that had been all . what share in the dividend , came to the venders , well i know not : probably they had a proportion according to the commodity that they put off ; which stirred up their zeal to be earnest and diligent in their work . among the rest , one fryer tecel , was so warm in his imployment , and so intent upon the main end that they had all in their eye that preaching in or about wittenberg , it sufficed him not in general , to make an offer of the pardon of all sins that any had committed , but , to take all scruples from their consciences , coming to particular instances , carryed them up to a cursed blasphemous supposition of ravishing the blessed virgin ; so coc●sure he made of the forgiveness of any thing beneath it , provided , the price were paid that was set upon the pardon . sober men being much amazed and grieved at these horrible impieties , one martin luther , a professor of divinity at wittenberg , an honest , warm , zealous soul , set himself to oppose the fryers blasphemies ; wherein his zeal was commended by all , his discretion by few , it being the joynt-opinion of most , that the pope would quickly have stopped his mouth by breaking his neck . but god , as it afterwards appeared , had another work to bring about , and the time of entring upon it was now fully come . at the same time , that luther set himself to oppose the pardons in germany , zwinglius did the same switzerland . and both of them , taking occasion from the work , they first engaged in , to search the scriptures , so to find out the truth of religion , which they discovered to be horribly abused by the pope and his agents , proceeded farther in their discovery , then at first they were aware of . many nations , princes , and people , multitudes of learned and pious men , up and down the world , that had long groaned under the bondage of the papal yoke , and grieved for the horrible abuse of the worship of god , which they were forced to see and endure , hearing , that god had stirred up some learned men seriously to oppose those corruptions in religion , which they saw and mourned under , speedily either countenanced them , or joyned themselves with them . it fell out indeed , as it was morally impossible it should be otherwise , that multitudes of learned men undertaking , without advising or consulting one with another , in several farr distant nations , the discovery of the papal errors , and the reformation of religion , some of them had different apprehensions and perswasions in , and about some points of doctrine , and parts of worship of no great weight and importance . and , he that shall seriously consider , what was the state of things , when they began their work , who they were , how educated , what prejudices they had to wrestle with , and remember withall , that they were all men ; will have ten thousand times more cause to admire at their agreeement in all fundamentals , then at their difference about some lesser things . however , whatever were their personal failings and infirmities , god was pleased to give testimony to the uprigh●ness and integrity of their hearts ; and to bless their endeavours with such success , as answered in some measure the primitive work of planting and propagating the gospel . the small sallies of our author upon them in some legends about what luther should say or do , deserve not the least notice from men , who will seriously contemplate the hand , power , and wisdom of god in the work accomplished by them . the next thing undertaken by our author , is the ingress of protestancy into england , and its progress there . the old story of the love of king henry the eighth to ann bullen , with the divorce of queen katharine , told over and over long ago by men of the same principle and design with himself , is that which he chooseth to flourish withall . i shall say no more to the story , but that english-men were not wont to believe the whispers of an unknown fryer , or two , before the open redoubled protestation of one of the most famous kings that ever swaid the scepter of this land , before the union of the crowns of england and scotland . these men , whatever they pretend , shew what reverence they have to our present soveraign ▪ by their unworthy defamation of his royal predecessors . but let men suppose the worst they please of that great heroick person : what are his miscarriages unto protestant religion ; for neither was he the head , leader , or author of that religion ; nor did he ever receive it , profess it , or embrace it ; but , caused men to be burned to death , for its profession . should 〈◊〉 , by way of retaliation , return unto our author , the lives and practices ; of some , of many , not of the great , or leading men of his church , but of the popes themselves , the head , sum , and , in a manner , whole of their religion , at least so farre that without him ) they will not acknowledge any , he knows well enough what double measure , shaken together , pressed down , and running over , may be returned unto him . a work this would be , i confess , no way pleasing unto my self ▪ for who can delight in raking into such a sink of filth , as the lives of many of them have been ; yet because he seems to talk with a confidence of willingness to revive the memory of such ulcers of christianity , if he proceed in the course he hath begun , it will be necessary to mind him of not boxing up his eyes when he looks towards his own home . that poysonings , adulteries , incests , conjurations , perjuries , atheism , have been no strangers to that see ; if he knows not , he shall be acquainted from stories , that he hath no colour to except against . for the present , i shall only mind him , and his friends , of the comaedian's advice ; dehinc ut quiescunt , porro m●neo , & desinant maledicere , malefactae ne noscant su● . the declaration made in the days of that king , that he was head of the church of england , intended no more , but that there was no other person in the world , from whom any jurisdiction to be exercised in this church over his subjects might be derived , the supreme authority for all exterior government being vested in him alone ▪ that this should be so , the word of god , the nature of the kingly office , and the ant●ent laws of this realm , do require . and i challenge our author to produce any one testimony of scripture , or any one word out of any general council , or any one catholick father or writer , to give the least countenance to his assertion of two heads of the church in his sense ; an head of influence , which is jesus himself ; and an head of government , which is the pope , in whom all the sacred hierarchy ends ; this taking of one half of christs rule , and headship out of his hand , and giving it to the pope , will not be salved , by that expression thrust in by the way , under him ; for the headship of influence is distinctly ascribed unto christ ; and that of government to the pope ; which evidently asserts , that he is not in the same manner , head unto his church in both these senses , but he in one , and the pope in another . but whatever was the cause , or occasion of the dissention between king henry and the pope , it 's certain , protestancy came into england , by the same way and means , that christianity came into the world ; the painful , pious professors , and teachers of it , sealed its truth with their bloud ; and what more honourable entrance it could make , i neither know , nor can it be declared . nor did england receive this doctrine from others ; in the days of king henry , it did but revive that light which sprung up amongst us long before , and by the fury of the pope , and his adherents , had been a while suppressed . and it was with the blood of english-men , dying patiently and gloriously in the flames , that the truth was sealed in the dayes of that king , who lived and dyed himself , as was said , in the profession of the roman faith . the truth flourished yet more in the dayes of his pious and hopefull son. some stop , our author tels us , was put to it in the dayes of queen mary . but , what stop ? of what kind ? of no other than that put to christianity by trajan , dioclesian , julian ; a stop by fire and sword , and all exquisite cruelties , which was broken through , by the constant death , and invincible patience and prayers , of bishops , ministers , and people numberless ; a stop , that rome hath cause to blush in the remembrance of , and all protestants to rejoyce , having their faith tryed in the fire , and coming forth more pretious than gold. nor did queen elizabeth , as is falsly pretended , indeavour to continue that stop , but cordially , from the beginning of her reign , embraced that faith , wherein she had before been instructed . and in the maintenance of it , did god preserve her from all the plots , conspiracies , and rebellions of the papists ; curses , and depositions , of the popes ; with invasions of her kingdomes by his instigation , as also her renowned successor , with his whole regal posterity from their contrivance for their martyrdom and ruin . during the reign of those royal and magnificent princes , had the power and polity of the papal world , been able to accomplish what the men of this innocent and quiet religion , professedly designed , they had not had the advantage of the late miscarriages , of some professing the protestant religion , in reference to our late king of glorious memory , to triumph in ; though they had obtained that which would have been very desirable to them , and which we have but sorry evidence that they do not yet aim at , and hope for . as for what he declares in the end of his th . paragraph , about the reformation here , that it followed , wholly , neither luther , nor calvin , which he intermixes with many unseemly taunts , and reflexions on our laws , government , and governours , is , as far as it is true , the glory of it . it was not luther , nor calvin , but the word of god , and the practise of the primitive church , that england proposed for her rule and pattern in her reformation ; and , where any of the reformers forsook them , she counted it her duty , without reflexions on them , or their wayes , to walk in that safe one , she had chosen out for her self . nor shal i insist on his next paragraph , destined to the advancement of his interest , by a proclamation of the late tumults , seditions , and rebellions in these nations , which he ascribes to the puritans . he hath got an advantage , and it is not equal we should perswade him to forego it ; only i desire prudent men to consider , what the importance of it is , as to this case in hand ; for , as to other considerations of the same things , they fall not within the compass of our present discourse . it 's not of professions , but of persons that he treats . the crimes he insists on , attend not any avowed principles , but the men that have professed them . and if a rule of chusing or leaving religion , may from thence be gathered , i know not any in the world , that any can embrace , much less can they rest in none at all . professors of all religions , have in their seasons sinfully miscarried themselves , and troubled the world with their lusts , and those , who have professed none , most of all . and of all , that is called religion , that of the romanists might by this rule be first cashiered . the abominable bestial lives of very many of their chief guids , in whom they believe ; the tumults , seditions , wars , rebellions , they have raised in the world ; the treasons , murders , conspiracies , they have countenanced , encouraged , and commended , would take up not a single paragraph of a little treatise , but innumerable volumes , should they be but briefly reported ; they do so already ; and which renders them abominable , whilest there is any in the world , that see reason not to submit themselves unto the papal soveraignty , their professed principles lead them to the same courses ; and when men are brought to all the bestial subjection aimed at ; yet pretences will not be wanting to set on foot such practises , they were not in former dayes , when they had obtained an uncontrouleable omnipotency . if our author supposeth this a rational way for the handling of differences in religion , that leaving the consideration of the doctrines and principles , we should insist on the vices and crimes of those who have professed them , i can assure him he must expect the least advantage by it to his party , of any in the world ; nor need we chuse any other scene than england , to try out our contests by this rule ; i hope , when he writes next , he will have better considered this matter , and not flatter himself , that the crimes of any protestants , do enable him to conclude as he doth , that the only way for peace , is an extermination of protestancy , and so his tale about religion is ended ; he next brings himself on the stage . chap. xiv . popish contradictions . this is our last task ; our author 's own story of himself , and rare observations in the roman-religion , make up the close of his discourse , and merit in his thoughts the title of discovery . the design of the whole is to manifest his catholick religion to be absolutely unblameable , by wiping off some spots and blemishes that are cast upon it ; indeed by gilding over with fair and plansible words some parts of their profession & worship which he knew to be most liable to the exceptions of them with whom he intends to deal . his way of managing this design , that he may seem to do something new , is , by telling a fair tale of himself , and his observations with the effects they had upon him ; which is but the putting of a a new tune to an old song , that hath been chanted at our doors , these . years ; and some he hopes are so simple , as to like the new tune , though they were sick of the old song . his entrance is , a blessing of the world with some knowledg of himself , his parentage , birth , and education , and proficiency in his studies ▪ as not doubting , but that great enquiry must needs be made after the meanest concernments of such an hero , as by his acchievements and travails he hath manifested himself to be . and indeed , he hath so handsomly and delightfully given us the romance of himself and popery , that it was pitty he should so unhappily stumble at the threshold , as he hath done , and fall upon a misadventure that to some men wil render the design of his discourse suspected . for whereas he doth else-where most confidently averr , that no trouble ever was raised amongst us by the romanists ; here at unawares he informs us , that his own grand-father lost both his life and his estate , in a rebellion raised in the north on the account of that religion . just as before , attempting to prove , that we received christianity originally from rome , he tells us , that the first planters of it , came directly from palestina . it is in vain for him to perswade us , that what hath been , can never be again , unless he manifest the principles which formerly gave it life and being , to be vanished out of the world ; which as to those of the romanists , tending to the disturbance of these kingdoms , i fear he is not able to doe . there is not any thing else , which protestants are universally bound to observe in the course of his life , before he went beyond the seas , but only the offence he took at men's preaching at london against popery ; not , that he was then troubled , if we may believe him , that popery was ill reported of , but the miscarriage of the preachers in bringing in the papal church hand over-head in their sermons , speaking all evil and no good of it , and charging it with contradictions , was that , which gave him distaste . he knows himself best what it was that troubled him , nor shall i set up conjectures against his assertions . the triple evil mentioned , so farr as it is evil , i hope , he finds now remedyed . for my part , i never liked of mens importune diversions from their texts , to deal with , or confute papists , which is the first part of the evil complained of . i know a farr more effectual way to preserve men from popery , namely , a solid instruction of them in the principles of truth with an endeavour to plant in their hearts the power of those principles , that they may have experience of their worth and usefulness . that nothing but evil was spoken of popery by protestants , when they spake of it , i cannot wonder ; they account nothing evil in the religion of the romanists but popery ; which is the name of the evil of that religion . noe protestants ever denyed , but that the romanists retained many good things in the religion , which they profess ; but those good things , they say , are no part of popery ; so that our author should not by right , have been so offended , that men spake no good of that , which is the expression of the evil of that , which in its self , is good , as popery is of the papists christianity . the last parcel of that which was the matter of his trouble and offence , he displayes by sundry of the contradictions , which protestants charged popery withal . to little purpose ; for , either , the things he mentions , are not by any charged on popery , or not in that manner he expresseth , or the contradiction between them , consists not in the assertions themselves , but in some additional terms supplyed by himself to make them appear contradictions . for instance , ( to take those given by himself ) if one say , the papists worship stocks and stones , another say , they worship a piece of bread , here is no contradiction . again , if one charge them with having their consciences affrighted with purgatory and domesday , and penances for their sins that they never live a quiet life ; another , that they carry their top and top gallant so high , that they will go to heaven without christ , or ( as we in the countrey phrase it ) trust not to his merits and righteousness alone for salvation , here may be no contradiction : for all papists are not , we know it well enough , of the same mould and form . some may more imbibe some principles of religion tending in appearance to mortification , some those that lead to pride and presumption ; and so be liable to several charges . but neither are these things inconsistent in themselves . men in their greatest consternation of spirit from sense of punishment , real or imaginary , wherewith they are disquieted , may yet proudly reject the righteousness of christ ; and if our author knows not this to be true , he knows nothing of the gospel . the next instance is of the same nature . one , he saith , affirmes , that murders , adulteries , lies , blasphemies , and all sin make up the bulk of popery ; another , that papists are so wholly given to good works , that they place in them excessive confidence . i scarce believe , that he ever heard any thus crudely charging them with either part of the imagined contradictory proposition , taking popery , as the protestants do , for the exorbitancy of the religion , which the romanists profess ; and considering the product of it in the most of mankind , it may be some by an usual hyperbole have used the words first mentioned ; but , if we should charge the papists , for being wholly given to good works , we should much wrong both them and our selves , seeing we perfectly know the contrary . the sum of both these things brought into one , is but this , that many papists in the course of a scandalously sinful life , do place much of their confidence in good works ; which is indeed , a strange contradiction in principles , between their speculation and practise ; but we know well enough , there is none in the charge . let us consider one more ; one affirmed , that the pope and all his papists fall down to pictures , and commit idolatry with them ; another , that the pope is so farr from falling down to any thing , that he exalts himself above all , that is called god , and is very antichrist . if one had said , he falls down to images , another , that he falls not down to images , there had been a contradiction indeed ; but our author by his own testimony being a civil logician , knows well enough that the falling down in the first proposition , and that in the second are things of a divers nature , and so are no contradiction . a man may fall down to images , and yet refuse to submit himself to the power that god hath set over him . and those of whom he speaks , would have told him , that a great part of the popes exalting himself against god , consists in his falling down to images , wherein he exalts his own will and tradition , against the will and express commands of god. the same may be shewed of all the following instances , nor can he give any one that shall manifest popery to be charged by sober protestants with any other contradictions , than what appears to every eye in the inconsistency of some of their principles one with another , and of most of them with their practise . in the particulars by himself enumerated , there is no other shew of the charge of contradictory evils in popery , then what by his additions and wresting expressions is put upon them . weary of such preaching in england , our author addressed himself to travail beyond the seas , where what he met withal , what he observed , the weight and strength of his own conversion , being laid in pretence upon it , ( indeed an apology for the more generally excepted against parts of his roman practise , and worship , being intended and persued ) must be particularly considered and debated . chap. xv. masse . sect . . the title our author gives to his first head of observation , is messach , on what account i know not ; unless it be with respect to a ridiculous hebrew etymologie of the word missa ; as though it should be the same with 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 a word quite of another signification . if this be that which his title intends , i wish him better success in his next etymologizing , for this attempt hath utterly failed him . missa never came out of the east nor hath any affinity with those tongues ; being a word utterly unknown to the syrians ; and graecians also , by whom all hebrew words that are used in religion came into europe . he that will trouble himself to trace the pedigree of missa , shall find it of no such antient stock , but a word , that with many others came into use in the destruction of the roman-empire , and the corruption of the latine-tongue . but as it is likely our author having not been accustomed to feed much upon hebrew roots , might not perceive the insipidness of this pretended traduction of the word missa , so also on the other side , it s not improbable , but that he might only by an uncouth word think to startle his poor countrymen , at the entrance of the story of his travels , that they might look upon him as no small person who hath the messach , and such other hard names , at his fingers ends : as the gnosticks heightned their disciples , into an admiration of them by paldab●oth , astaphaeum , and other names of the like hideous noise and found . of the discourse upon this messach what ever it is , there are sundry parts . that he begins with , is a preference of the devotion of the romanists incomparably above that of the protestants . this was the entrance of his discovery . catholicks bells ring oftner then ours , their churches are swept cleaner then ours ; yea , ours in comparison of theirs are like stables to a princely pallace ; their people are longer upon their knees , than ours , and upon the whole matter they are excellent every way in their worship of god , we every way blame worthy and contemptible : unto all which , i shall only mind him of that good old advice ; let thy neighbour praise thee , and not thine own mouth . and as for us , i hope we are not so bad , but that we should rejoyce truly to hear , that others were better . only we could desire , that we might find their excellency to consist in things not either indifferent wholly in themselves , or else disapproved by god , which are the wayes that hypocrisie usually vents it self in , and then boast of what it hath done . knowledge of god and his will , as revealed in the gospel , real mortification , abiding in spiritual supplications , diligent in universal obedience , and fruitfulness in good works , be as i suppose , the things which render our profession beautiful , and according to the mind of god. if our author be able , to make a right judgement of these things , and find them really abounding amongst his party , i hope , we shall rejoyce with him , though we knew the spring of them is not their popery , but their christianity . for the outside-shews , he hath as yet instanced in , they ought not , in the least , to have influenced his judgement in that disquisition of the truth , wherein he pretends he was engaged . he could not of old have come amongst the professors and mystae of those false religions , which by the light and power of the gospel , are now banished out of the world , where he should not have met with the same vizards and appearances of devotion , so that hitherto we find no great discoveries , in his messach . from the worship of the parties compared , he comes to their preaching , and finds them as differing as their devotion . the preaching of protestants of all sorts , is sorry pittiful stuffe . inconsequent words , senseless notions , or , at least , rhetorical flourishes , make it up ; the catholicks , grave and pithy . still all this , belongs to persons , not things . protestants preach as well as they can , and , if they cannot preach so well as his wiser romanists , it is their unhappiness , not their fault . but yet i have a little reason , to think , that our author is not altogether of the mind that here he pretends to be of , but that he more hates , and fears , then despises , the preaching of protestants . he knows well enough , what mischief it hath wrought his party , though prejudice will not suffer him to see what good it hath done the world ; and therefore doubting , as i suppose , lest he should not be able to prevail with his readers to believe him in that , which he would fain , it may be , but cannot believe himself , about the excellency of the preaching of his catholicks above that of protestants , he decryes the whole work , as of little or no use or concernment in christian religion . this it had been fair for him to have openly pleaded , and not to have made a flourish with that which he knew , he could make no better work of . nor is the preaching of the protestants , as is pretended , unlike that of the antients . the best and most famous preacher of the antient church , whose sermons are preserved , was chrysostom . we know , the way of his proceding in that work , was to open the words and meaning of his text ; to declare the truth contained and taught in it , to vindicate it from objections , to confirm it by other testimonies of scripture , and to apply all unto practise in the close . and as farr as i can observe , this , in general , is that method used by protestants , being that indeed , which the very nature of the work dictates unto them ; wherefore mistrusting lest he should not be able to bring men out of love with the preaching of protestants , in comparison of the endeavours of his party in the same kind , he turns himself another way and labours to perswade us , as i said , that preaching its self is of little or no use in christian religion ; for , so he may serve his own design , he cares not , it seems , openly to contradict the practise of the church of god , ever since there was a church in the world . to avoid that charge he tells us , that the apostles and apostolical churches , had no sermons , but all their preaching was meerly for the conversion of men to the faith , and , when this was done , there was an end of their preaching , and , for this he instanceth in the sermons mentioned in the acts , ch . , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , . i wonder , what he thinks of christ himself , whether he preached or no , in the temple , or in the synagogues of the jews ; and whether the judaical church to whose members he preached , were not then a true , yea , the only church in the world ; and , whether christ was not anointed and sent to preach the gospel to them ? if he know not this , he is very ignorant ; if he doth know it , he is somewhat that deserves a worse name : to labour to exterminate that out of the religion of christ , which was one of the chief works of christ ( for we do not read , that he went up and down singing mass , though i have heard of a fryer , that conceived , that to be his imployment ) is a work unbecoming any man , that would count himself wronged , not to be esteemed a christian. but what ever christ did , it may be , it matters not ; the apostles and apostolical churches had no sermons , but only such as they preached to infidels and jews to convert them ; that is , they did not labour to instruct men in the knowledge of the mysteries of the gospel , to build them up in their faith , to teach them more and more the good knowledg of god , revealing unto them the whole counsel of his will. and is it possible that any man who hath ever read over the new testament , or any one of paul's epistles , should be so blinded by prejudicies , and made so confident in his assertions , as to dare , in the face of the sun , whilst the bible is in every ones hand , to utter a matter so devoid of truth , and all colour or pretence of probability ? methinks men should think it enough to sacrifice their consciences to their moloch , without casting wholly away their reputation to be consumed in the same flames . it is true , the design of the story of the acts , being to deliver unto us the progress of the christian faith , by the ministry of the apostles , insists principally on those sermons which god in an especial manner , blessed to the conversion of souls , and encrease of the church thereby ; but , is there therefore no mention made of preaching in it , to the edification of their converts ? or , is there no mention of preaching , unless it be said , that such a one preached at such a time , so long , on such a text ? when the people abode in the apostles doctrine , acts . . i think the apostle taught them . and the ministry of the word , which they gave themselves unto , was principally in reference unto the church , ch. . . so peter and john preached the word to those whom philip had converted at samaria , ch. . . a whole year together paul and barnabas assembled themselves together with the church of antioch , and taught much people , ch. . . at troas , paul preached unto them who came together to break bread , ( that is , the church ) until midnight , ch. . , . which , why our author calls a dispute ; or , what need of a dispute there was , when only the church was assembled , neither i , nor he , do know . and ver . . & . he declares , that his main work and employment was , constant preaching to the disciples and churches ; giving commands to the elders of the churches to do the same . and what his practice was , during his imprisonment at rome , the close of that book declares . and these not footsteps , but express examples of , and precepts concerning , preaching to the churches themselves , and their disciples , we have in that book purposely designed , to declare their first calling and planting , not their progress and edification . should i trace the commands given for this work , the commendation of it , the qualifications and gifts for it bestowed on men by christ , and his requiring of their exercise , recorded in the epistles , the work would be endless , and a good part of most of them must be transcribed . in brief , if the lord christ continue to bestow ministerial gifts upon any , or to call them to the office of the ministry , if they are bound to labour in the word and doctrine , to be instant in season , and out of season in preaching the word to those committed to their charge ; if that be one of the directions given them , that they may know how to behave themselves in the church , the house of god ; if they are bound to trade with the talents their master entrusts them with , to attend unto doctrine with all diligence ; if it be the duty of christians to labour to grow and encrease in the knowledge of god and his will , and that of indispensable necessity unto salvation , according to the measure of the means god is pleased to afford unto them ; if their perishing through ignorance , will be assuredly charged on them who are called to the care , and freedom , and instructing of them ; this business of preaching , is an indispensible duty among christians . if these things be not so indeed , for ought i know , we may do what our adversary desires us ; even burn our bibles , and that as books that have no truth in them . our authors denial of the practice of antiquity , conformable to this of the apostles , is of the same nature . but that it would prove too long a diversion from my present work ; i could as easily trace down the constant sedulous performance of this duty from the dayes of the apostles , until it gave place to that ignorance which the world was beholding to the papal apostacy for , as i can possibly write so much paper , as the story of it would take up . but to what purpose should i do it ? our author , i presume , knows it well enough ; and others , i hope , will not be too forward in believing his affirmations of what he believes not himself . the main design of this discourse is , to cry up the sacrifice that the catholicks have in their churches , but not the protestants . this sacrifice he tells us , was the sum of all apostolical devotion , which protestants have abolished . strange ! that in all the writings of the apostles , there should not one word be mentioned of that which was the sum of their devotion . things , surely , judged by our author , of less importance , are at large handled in them . that they should not directly , nor indirectly , once intimate that which , it seems , was the sum of their devotion , is , i confess , to me , somewhat strange . they must make this concealment , either by design or oversight . how consistent the first is with their goodness , holiness , love to the church ; the latter with their wisdom and infallibility , either with their office , and duty ; is easie to judge . our author tells us , they have a sacrifice after the order of melchizedeck , paul tells us , indeed , that we have a high priest , after the order of melchizedech ; but , as i remember , this is the first time that ever i heard of a sacrifice after the order of melchisedech ; though i have read somewhat that roman catholicks say about melchisedechs sacrifice . our priest after the order of melchisedech , offered a sacrifice , that none ever had done before , nor can do after him , even himself . if the romanists think to offer him , they must kill him . the species of bread and wine , are but a thin sacrifice , next door to nothing , yea , somewhat worse then nothing , a figment of a thing impossible , or the shaddow of a dream , nor will they say they are any . it is true , which our author pleads in justification of the sacrifice of his church , that there were sacrifices among the jews , yea , from the beginning of the world , after the entrance of sin , and promise of christ to come made to sinners . for , in the state of innocency , there was no sacrifice appointed , because there was no need of an atonement . but all these sacrifices , properly so called , had no other use in religion , then to prefigure and represent the great sacrifice of himself to be made , by the son of god , in the fulness of time . that being once performed , all other sacrifices were to cease ; i mean , properly so called ; for we have still sacrifices metaphorical , called so by analogy , being parts of gods worship tendred unto him , and accepted with him , as were the sacrifices of old . nor is it at all necessary , that we should have proper sacrifices , that we may have metaphorical . it is enough , that such there have been , and that of gods own appointment . and we have still that only one real sacrifice , which was the life and soul of all them that went before . the substance being come , the light shaddowing of it , that was before , under the law , is vanished . the apostle doth expresly place the opposition that is between the sacrifice of christian-church , and that of the judaical in this , that they were often repeated , this was performed once for all , and is a living abiding sacrifice , constant in the church for ever , heb. . , . so that , by this rule , the repetition of the same , or any other sacrifice in the christian-church , can have no other foundation , but an apprehension of the imperfection of the sacrifice of christ ; for , saith he , where the sacrifice is perfect , and makes them perfect that come to god by it , there must be no more sacrifice . this then seems to be the real difference between protestants , and roman-catholicks in this business of sacrifice . protestants believing the sacrifice of christ to be absolutely perfect , so that there is no need of any other , and that it is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , a fresh and living way of going to god continually , with whom , by it , obtaining remission of sin , they know there is no more offering for sin ; they content themselves with that sacrifice of his , continually in its vertue and efficacy residing in the church . romanists looking on that as imperfect , judge it necessary to institute a new sacrifice of their own , to be repeated every day , and that without any the least colour or warrant from the word of god , or example of the apostles . but our author puts in an exception , and tells us those words of luke , acts . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , are well and truly rendred by erasmus , sacrificantibus illis domino : which one text , saith he , gives double testimony to apostolical sacrifice and priestly ordination ; and he strengthens the authority of erasmus with reason also , for the word can import nothing but sacrifice , since it was made 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 : for other inferiour ministeries of the word and sacraments are not made to god , but the people ; but the apostles were 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , administring , liturgying , sacrificing to our lord. for what he adds of ordination , it belongs not unto this discourse . authority and reason are pleaded to prove , i know not what , sacrifice to be intended in these words . erasmus is first pleaded , to whose interpretation , mentioned by our author , i shall only add his own annotations in the explication of his meaning ; 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , saith he , quod proprium est operantium sacris , nullum autem sacrificium deo gratius , quàm impartiri doctrinam evangelicam . so that , it seems , the preaching of the gospel , or taking care about it , was the sacrifice that erasmus thought of in his translation and exposition : yea , but the word is truly translated sacrisicantilus . but who , i pray , told our author so ? the original of the word is of a much larger signification . it s common use is , to minister in any kind ; it s so translated , and expounded by all learned impartial men , and is never used in the whole new testament to denote sacr●ficing . nor is , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , ever rendred in the old testament by the . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , but 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , &c. nor is that word used absolutely , in any author , profane or ecclesiastical , to signifie , precisely , sacrificing . and i know well enough what it is that makes our author say , it is properly translated sacrificing ; and i know as well , that he cannot prove what he sayes ; but he gives a reason for what he sayes , it 's said , to be made to the lord , whereas other inferior ministerial acts , are made to the people . i wish , heartily , he would once leave this scurvy trick of cogging in words , to deceive his poor unwary reader ; for what , i pray , makes his , made , here ? what is it that is said to be made to the lord ? it is , when they were ministring to the lord , so the words are rendred ; not when they were making , or making sacrifice , or when they made sacrificing unto the lord. this wild guord , made , puts death into his pot. and we think here in england , that in all ministerial acts , though performed towards the people , and for their good , yet men administer to the lord in them , because performing them by his appointment , as a part of that worship which he requires at their hands . in the close of our authors discourse , he complains of the persecutions of catholicks : which what ever they are , or have been , for my part , i neither approve , nor justifie ; and do heartily wish , they had never shewed the world those wayes of dealing with them , who dissented from them in things concerning religion , whereof themselves now complain ; how justly , i know not . but if it be for the masse that any of them have felt , or do fear suffering , which i pray god avert from them , i hope they will at length come to understand how remote it is from having any affinity with the devotion of the apostolical churches , and so free themselves , if not from suffering , yet at lest from suffering for that which being not accepted with god , will yield them no solid gospel-consolation in what they may endure or undergo . chap. xvi . blessed virgin. sect . . pag. . the twenty second paragraph concerning the blessed virgin , is absolutely the weakest and most disingenious in his whole discourse . the work he hath in hand● is to take off offence from the roman doctrine and practice , in reference unto her . finding that this could not be handsomely gilded over , being so rotten and corrupt , as not to bear a new varnish , he turns his pen to the bespattering of protestants , for contempt of her , without the least respect to truth or common honesty . of them it is , that he says , that they vilifie and blaspheme her , and cast gibes upon her , which he sets off with a pretty tale of a protestant bishop , and a catholick boy ; and lest this should not suffice to render them odious , he would have some of them thought to taunt at christ himself ; one of them , for ignorance , passion , and too much haste for his breakfast . boldly to calumniate , that something may cleave , is a principle that too many have observed in their dealings with others in the world . but , as it containes a renuntiation of the religion of jesus christ , so it hath not alwayes well succeeded . the horrid and incredible reproaches that were cast by the pagans on the primitive christians , occasioned sundry ingenious persons to search more into their way , then otherwise they would have done ; and thereby , their conversion . and i am perswaded , this rude charge on protestants , as remote from truth , as any thing that was cast on the first christians by their adversaries , would have the same effects on roman-catholicks , might they meet with the same ingenuity and candor . that any protestant should be moved or shaken in his principles , by such calumnies , is impossible . every one that is so , knows , that as the protestants believe every thing that is spoken of the blessed virgin , in the scripture , or creed , or whatever may be lawfully deduced from what is so spoken ; so they have all that honour and respect for her , which god will allow to be given to any creature . surely , a confident accusation of incivility and blasphemy , for not doing that , which they know they do , and profess to all the world they do , is more like to move men in their patience towards their accusers , then to prevail with them , to join in the same charge against others , whom they know to be innocent as themselves . neither will it relieve our author in point of ingenuity and truth , that , it may be , he hath heard it reported , of one or two brain-sick , or frantick persons in england , that they have cast out blasphemous reproaches against the blessed mother of god. it is credibly testified , that pope leo should , before witnesses , profess his rejoycing at the advantages they had at rome , by the fable of christ. were it handsome now in a protestant , to charge this blasphemy upon all papists , though uttered by their head and guide ; and to dispute against them from the confession of the jews , who acknowledge the story of his death and suffering to be true ; and of the turks , who have a great honour and veneration for him unto this day . well may men be counted catholicks , who walk in such paths , but i see no ground or reason why we should esteem them christians . had our author spoken to the purpose , he should have proved the lawfulness ▪ or if he had spoken to his own purpose , with any candor of mind , or consistency of purpose , in the pursuit of his design , have gilded over the practise of giving divine honour to the holy virgin ; of worshipping her with adoration , as protestants say , due to god alone ; of ascribing all the titles of christ unto her , turning lord , in the psalms , in most places , into lady ; praying to her , not only to entreat , yea , to command her son to help and save them , but to save them her self , as she to whom her son hath committed the administration of mercy , keeping that of justice to himself ; with many other the like horrid blasphemies , which he shall hear more of , if he desire it . but in stead of this difficult task , he takes up one , which , it seems , he looked on as far easier , falsly to accuse protestants of blaspheming her . we usually smile in england at a short answer that one is said to have given bellarmine's works ; i hope , i may say without offence , that if it were not uncivil , it might suffice for an answer to this paragraph . but though most men will suppose , that our author hath overshot himself , and gone too far in his charge , he himself thinks , he hath not gone far enough ; as well knowing , there are some bounds , which when men have passed , their only course is to set a good face upon the matter , and to dare on still . wherefore to convince us of the truth of what he had delivered concerning protestants reviling and blaspheming the blessed virgin , he tels us , that it is no wonder , seeing some of them in forrain parts , have uttered words against the very honour of jesus christ himself . to make this good , calvin is placed in the van , who is said , to taunt at his ignorance , and passion , and too much haste for his breakfast , when he curst the figtree , who if , as is pretended , he had studyed catholick divines , they would have taught him a more modest and pious interpretation . it is quite beside my purpose and nature of the present discourse , to recite the words of private men , and to contend about their sense and meaning . i shall therefore only desire the reader , that thinks himself concerned in this report , to consult the place in calvin pointed unto ; and if he finds any such taunts , as our author mentions , or any thing delivered concerning our lord christ , but what may be confirmed by the judgement of all the antient fathers , and many learned romanists ; i will be content to lose my reputation with him , for any skill in judging at the meaning of an author . but what thoughts he will think meet to retain for this informer , i leave to himself . what catholick divines calvin studyed , i know not ; but , i am sure , if some of those whom his adviser accounts so , had not studyed him , they had never stole so much out of his comments on the scripture , as they have done the next primitive protestants , that are brought in , to make good this charge , are servetus , gibraldus , lasmaninus , and some other anti-trinitarian hereticks ; in opposition to whose errors , both in their first rise , and after-progress , under the management of faustus socinus , and his followers , protestants all europe over , have laboured far more abundantly , and with far greater success , then all his roman-catholicks . it seems they must now all pass for primitive protestants , because the interest of the catholick-cause requires it should be so . this is a communicable branch of papal omnipotency , to make things and persons to be , what they never were . from them , a return is made again , to luther , brentius , calvin , swinglius , who are said to nibble at arianism , and shoot secrets darts at the trinity ; though all impartial men must needs confess , that they have asserted and proved the doctrine of it , far more solidly then all the schoolmen in the world were able to do . but the main weight of the discourse of this paragraph , lies upon the prety tale , in the close of it , about a protestant bishop , and a catholick boy ; which he must be a very cato that can read without smiling . it is a little too long to transcribe , and i cannot tell it over again without spoyling of it , having never had that faculty in gilding of little stories , wherein our author excelleth . the sum is , that the boy being reproved by the bishop , for saying a prayer to her , boggled at the repetition of her name when he came to repeat his creed , and cryed , my lord , here she is again , what shall i do with her now ? to whom the bishop replyed , you may let her passe in your creed , but not in your prayers . whereupon our author subjoyns , as though we might have faith , but neither hope nor charity for her . certainly , i suppose , my countrimen cannot but take it ill , that any man should suppose them such stupid blockheads , as to be imposed on with sophistry , that they may feel through a pair of mittens ; tam vacui capitis populum phaeaca putasti ? for my part , i can scarce think it worth the while to relieve men , that will stoop to so naked a lure . but that i may pass on , i will cast away one word , which nothing but gross stupidity can countenance from needlesseness . the blessed virgin is mentioned in the creed , as the person of whom our saviour was born : and we have therefore faith for her ; that is , we believe that christ was born of her ; but do we therefore believe in her ? certainly no more then we do in pontius pilate , concerning whom we believe that christ was crucified under him : a bare mention in the creed , with reference to somewhat else believed in , is a thing in its self indifferent ; and we see occasionally befell the best of women , and one of the worst of men ; and what hope and charity should we thence conclude , that we ought to have for her ? we are past charitable hopes that she is for ever blessed in heaven , having full assurance of it . but if by hope for her , he means the placing of our hope , trust , and confidence in her , so as to pray unto her , as his meaning must be , how well this follows from the place she hath in the creed , he is not a man who is not able to judge . chap. xvii . images . sect . . the next excellency of the roman-church , which so exceedingly delighted our author in his travails , is their images . it was well for him that he travailed not in the days of the apostles , nor for or years after their decease . had he done so , and , in his choice of a religion , would have been influenced by images and pictures , he had undoubtedly turned pagan ; ( or else a gnostick ; for those pretended christians , indeed wretches worse then pagans , as epiphanius informes us , had got images of christ , which , they said , were made in the dayes of pontius pilate , if not by him . ) their temples being richly-furnished and adorned with them , whilst christian oratories were utterly destitute of them . to forward also his inclination , he would have found them not the representations of ordinary men , but of famous hero's , renowned throughout the whole world , for their noble acchievements and inventions of things necessary to humane life ; and those pourtrayed to the life , in the performance of those actions which were so useful to mankind , and by which they had stirred up just admiration of their virtue in all men . moreover , he would have found their learned men profound philosophers , devout priests , and virgins , contemning the christians for want of those helps to devotion towards god , which in those images they enjoyed ; and objecting to them their rashness , fury , and ignorance in demolishing of them . as far as i can perceive by his good inclination to this excellency of religion ( the imagery of it ) had he lived in those dayes , he would have as easily bid adiew to christianity , as he did in these to protestantism . but the excellent thoughts , he tells us that such pictures and images are apt to cast into the minds of men , makes them come to our mount zion , the city of the living god , to celestial jerusalem , and society of angels , and so onward , as his translation somewhat uncouthly , and improperly renders that place of the apostle , hebr. . a man indeed distraught of his wits , might possibly entertain some such fancies upon his entring of an house , full of fine pictures and images ; but that a sober man should do so , is very unlikely . it is a sign how well men understand the apostle's words , when they suppose themselves furthered in their meditation on them by images and pictures ; and yet it were well , if this abuse were all the use of them in the romish church : i wish , our author would inform us truly , whether many of those whom he tells us , he saw so devout in their churches , did not lay out a good part of their devotion upon the fine pictures , and images he saw them fall down before . images began first in being ignorant peoples books , but they ended in being their gods or idols : alas poor souls ! they know little of those many curious windings , and turnings of mind , through the maeanders of various distinctions , which their masters prescribe to preserve them from idolatry , in that veneration of images , which they teach them ; when it is easie for them to know , that all they do in this kind , is contrary to the express will and command of god. but that our author may charge home upon his countrymen , for removing of images out of churches , he tells us , that it is the judgement of all men , that the violation of an image , redounds to the prototype . true , provided it be an image rightly and duly destined to represent him that is intended to be injured . but suppose , any man against the express command of a king , should make an image of him , on purpose to represent him deformed and ridiculous to the people , would he interpret it an injury , or dishonour done unto him , if any one , out of allegiance , should break or tear such an image in pieces ? i suppose , a wise and just king would look on such an action as a rewardable piece of service ; and would in time take care for the punishment of him that made it . the hanging of traitors in effigie , is not to cast a dishonour upon the person represented , but a declaration of what he doth deserve , and is adjudged unto . the psalmist indeed complains , that they broke down the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , or carved works , in the walls and seeling of the temple ; but that those apertiones , or incisurae , were not pictures and images for the people to adore and venerate , or were appointed for their instruction , if our author knows not , he knows whither to repair to be instructed , viz. to any comment , old or new , extant on that psalm . and it is no small confidence to use scripture out of the old testament , for the religious use of images , of mens finding out and constitution ; whereas they may finde as many testimonies for more gods ; enow indeed , wherein the one are denyed , and the other forbidden . nor will the ensuing contemplation of the means whereby we come to learn things we know not , namely by our senses , whence images are suited to do that by the eye , which sermons do by the ear , and that more effectually , yield him any relief in his devotion for them . there is this small difference between them , that the one means of instruction is appointed by god himself ; the other , that is pretended to be so , absolutely forbidden by him . and these fine discourses of the actuosity of the eye above the ear , and its faculty of administring to the fancy ; are but pitiful weak attempts for men that have no less work in hand , then to set up their own wisdom in the room of , and above , the wisdom of god. and our author is utterly mistaken , if he think , the sole end of preaching the cross and death of christ , is to work out such representations to the mind , as oratory may effect for the moving of corresponding affections . this may be the end of some mens rhetorical declamations about it . if he will a little attentively read over the epistles of paul , he will discern other ends in his preaching christ , and him crucified , which the fancies he speaks of , have morally little affinity with all . but what if catholicks having nothing to say for their practice in the adoration of images , seeing the protestants have nothing but simple pretences for their removal out of churches ; these simple pretences are express reiterate commands of god : which what value they are of with the romanists , when they lay against their wayes and practice , is evident . the arguments of protestants when they deal with the romanists , are not directed against this , or that , part of their doctrine or practice about images , but the whole ; that is , the making of them , some of god himself , the placing of them in churches , and giving them religious adoration ; not to speak of the abominable miscarriages of many of their devotionists in teaching , or of their people in committing with them as gross idolatry , as ever any of the antient heathens did ; which shall at large be proved , if our author desires it . against this principle , and whole practise , one of the protestants pretences , as they are called , laies in the second commandment , wherein the making of all images for any such purpose , is expresly forbidden : but the same god , say they , commanded cherubims to be made , and placed over the ark. he did so ; but i desire to know , what the cherubs were images of ; and that they would shew , he ever appointed them to be adored , or to be the immediate objects of any veneration , or to be so much as historical means of instruction , being alwayes shut up from the view of the people , and representing nothing that ever had a real subsistence in rerum natura . besides , who appointed them to be made ? as i take it , it was god himself , who did therein no more contradict himself , then he did , when he commanded his people to spoil the egyptians , having yet forbid all men to steal . his own special dispensation of a law , constitutes no general rule . so that ( whoever are blind , or fools ) it is certain , that the making of images for religious veneration , is expresly forbidden of god unto the sons of men . but alas ! they were forraign images , the ugly faces of moloch , dagon , ashtaroth ; he forbad not his own . yea , but they are images or likenesses of himself , that in the first place , and principally , he forbids them to make , and he enforceth his command upon them from hence , that when he spake unto them in horeb , they saw no manner of similitude , deut. . . which surely concerned not the ugly face of moloch . and it is a very prety fancy of our author , and inferiour to none of the like kind , that we have met with , that they have in their catholick churches , both , thou shalt not make graven images , and thou shalt make graven images ; because they have the image of st. peter , not of simon magus ; of st. bennet , or good st. francis , not of luther and calvin . i desire to know , where they got that command , thou shalt make images ? in the original and all the translations , lately published in the biblia polyglotta , it is , thou shalt not . so it is in the writings of all the antients ; as for this new command , thou shalt make graven images ; i cannot guess from whence it comes ; and so shall say no more about it . only i shall ask him one question in good earnest , desiring his resolution the next time he shall think fit to make the world merry with his witty discourses ; and it is this . suppose the jews had not made the images of jannes and jambres , their simon magus's , but of moses and aaron ; and had placed them in the temple and worshipped them as papists do the images of peter or the blessed virgin , whether he thinks it would have been approved of god or no ▪ i fear , he will be at a stand . but i shall not discourage him , by telling him before hand , what will befal him , on what side soever he determines the question . he will not yet have done , but tells us , the precept lies in this , that men shall not mak● to themselves : as if he had said , when you come into the land among the gentiles , let none of you make to himself any of the images he shall see there set up by the inhabitants contrary to the law of moses , and the practise of the synagogue , which doth so honour her cherubims , that she abominates all idols and their sculpture ▪ and thus if any catholick should make to himself contrary to what is allowed , any peculiar image of the planets , &c. but that nil admirari relieves me , i should be at a great loss in reading these things ; for truly a man would think , that he that talks at this rate , had read the bible no otherwise then he would have our people to do it , that is , not at all . i would i could prevail with him for once to read over the book of deuteronomy . i am perswaded , he will not repent him of his pains , if he be a lover of truth , as he pretends he is . at least , he could not miss of the advantage of being delivered from troubling himself and others hereafter with such gross mistakes . if he will believe the author of the pentateuch , it was the image of the true god , that was principally intended in the prohibition of all images whatever , to be made objects of divine adoration , and that without any respect unto the cherubims over the ark , everlastingly secluded from the sight of the people . and the images of the false gods are but in a second place forbidden ; the gods themselves being renounced in the first commandement . and it is this making unto a man's self any image whatever , without the appointment of god , that is the very substance of the command . and i desire to know of our author , how any image made in his church comes to represent him to whom it is assigned , or to have any religious relation to him ; for instance to st. peter , rather then to simon magus , or judas , so that the honour done unto it , should redound to the one , rather then to the other . it is not from any appointment of god , nor from the nature of the thing it self ; for the carved piece of wood , is as fit to represent judas as peter ; not from any influence of vertue and efficacy from peter , into the statua , as the heathens pleaded for their image-worship of old . i think , the whole relation between the image and the pretended prototype , depends solely on the imagination of him that made it , or him that reverenceth it . this creative faculty in the imagination , is that which is forbidden to all the sons of men in the non facies tibi , thou shalt not make to thy self ; and when all is done , the relation supposed , which is the pretended ground of adoration is but imaginary and phantastick . a sorry basis for the building erected on it . this whimsical termination of the worship in the prototype by vertue of the imaginations creation of a relation between it and the image , will not free the papists from down-right idolatry in their abuse of images ; much less will the pretence that it is the true god they intend to worship , that true god having declared all images of himself set up without his command , to be abominable idols . chap. xviii . latin service . sect . . pag. . the next thing he gilds over , in the roman practise is , that which he calls , their latin service ; that is , their keeping of the word of god , and whole worship of the church , ( in which two , all the general concernments of christians do lie ) from their understanding , in an unknown tongue . we find it true , by continual experience , that great successes , and confidence in their own abilities , do encourage men to strange attempts ; what else could make them perswade themselves that they should prevail with poor simple mortals to believe , that they have nothing to do with that , wherein , indeed , all their chiefest concernments do lie ; and that contrary to express direction of scripture , universal practice of the churches of old , common sense , and the broadest light of that reason , whereby they are men , they need not at all understand the things wherein their communion with god doth consist , the means whereby they must come to know his will , and way wherein they must worship him . nor doth it suffice these gentlemen to suppose , that they are able to flourish over their own practice with such pretences , as may free it from blame ; but they think to render it so desirable , as either to get it embraced willingly by others , or countenance themselves in imposing it upon them whether they will or no. but as they come short of those advantages , whereby this matter , in former days , was brought about , or rather come to pass : so to think , at once , to cast those shackles on men now they are awake , which were insensibly put upon them when they were asleep , and rejected on the first beam of gospel-light that shined about them ; is , i hope , but a pleasing dream . certain i am , there must be other manner of reasonings , then are insisted upon by our author , or have been by his masters as yet , that must prevail on any who are not on the account of other things , willing to be deluded in this . that the most of christians need never to read the scripture , which they are commanded by god to meditate in day and night , to read , study , and grow in the knowledge of , and which by all the antient fathers of the church they are exhorted unto ; that they need no● understand those prayers which they are commanded to pray with understanding , and wherein lies a principal exercise of their faith and love towards god , are the things which are here recommended unto us : let us view the arguments , wherewith , first the general custome of the western empire , in keeping the mass and bible in an unknown tongue , is pleaded . but , what is a general custome of the western empire , in opposition to the command of god , and the evidence of all that reason that lies against it ? have we not an express command , not to follow a multitude to do evill ? besides , what is , or ever was , the western empire unto the catholicism of the church of christ , spread over the whole world ? within an hundred years after christ , the gospel was spread to nations , and in places , whither the roman power never extended it self , romanis inaccessa loca ; much less that branch of it , which he calls the western empire ? but neither yet was it the custom of the western empire , to keep the bible in an unknown tongue , or to perform the worship of the church in such a language . whilst the latin tongue was only used by them , it was generally used in other things , and was the vulgar tongue of all the nations belonging unto it . little was there remaining of those tongues in use , that were the languages of the provinces of it , before they became so . so that though they had their bible in the latin tongue , they had it not in an unknown ; no more than the grecians had , who used it in greek . and when any people received the faith of christ , who had not before received the language of the romans , good men translated the bible into their own ; as hierom did for the dalmatians . whatever then may be said of the latin , there is no pretence of the use of an unknown tongue , in the worship of the church in the western empire , until it was over-run , destroyed , and broken in pieces by the northern nations , and possessed by them , ( most of them pagans ) who brought in several distinct languages into the provinces , where they seated themselves . after those tumults ceased , and the conquerors began to take up the religion of the people , into whose countries they were come , still retaining with some mixtures , their old dialect ; that the scripture was not in all places ( for in many it was ) translated for their use , was the sin and negligence of some , who had other faults besides . the primitive use of the latin tongue in the worship of god , and translation of the bible into it in the western empire , whilst that language was usually spoken and read , as the greek in the grecian , is an undeniable argument of the judgement of the antient church , for the use of the scripture , and church-liturgies in a known tongue . what ensued on ; what was occasioned by that inundation of barbarous nations , that buried the world for some ages in darkness and ignorance , cannot reasonably be proposed for our imitation . i hope , we shall not easily be induced either to return unto , or embrace , the effects of barbarism . but , saith our author , secondly , catholicks have the sum of scripture , both for history and dogm , delivered them in their own language , so much as may make for their salvation ; good orders being set and instituted for their proficiency therein ; and what needs any more ? or why should they be further permitted , either to satifie curiosity , or to raise doubt● , or to wrest words and examples there recorded unto their own ruin , as we see now by experience men are apt to do . what catholicks have , or have not , is not our present dispute . whether what they have of story and dogm in their own language , be that which paul calls the whole counsel of god , which he declared at ephesus , i much doubt . but the question is , whether they have what god allows them , and what he commands them to make use of ? we suppose , god himself , christ , and his apostles , the antient fathers of the church , any of these , or , at least , when they all agree , may be esteemed as wise as our present masters at rome . their sense is , that all scripture given by inspiration from god , is profitable for doctrine ; it seems these judge not so , and therefore they afford them so much of it as may tend to their good . for my part , i know whom i am resolved to adhere to , let others do as seems good unto them . nor where god hath commanded and commended the use of all , do i believe , the romanists are able to make a distribution , that so much of it , makes for the salvation of men , the rest only serves to satisfie curiosity , to raise doubts , and to occasion men to wrest words and examples . nor , i am sure , are they able to satisfie me , why any one part of the scripture should be apt to do this more then others . nor will they say this at all of any part of their mass. nor is it just to charge the fruits of the lusts and darkness of men , on the good word of god. nor is it the taking away from men of that alone , which is able to make them good and wise , a meet remedy to cure their evils and follies . but these declamations against the use and study of the scripture , i hope , come too late . men have found too much spiritual advantage by it , to be easily driven from it . it self gives light to know its excellency , and defend its use by . but the book is sacred , he says , and therefore not to be sullied by every hand ; what god hath sanctified , let not man make common . it seems then those parts of the scripture , which they afford to the people , are more useful , but less sacred , than those that they keep away . these reasons justle one another unhandsomly . our author should have made more room for them ; for they will never lie quietly together . but what is it , he means by the book ? the paper , ink , letters , and covering ? his master of the schools will tell him , these are not sacred ; if they are , the printers dedicate them . and it 's a pretty pleasant sophism , that he adds , that god having sanctified the book , we should not make it common . to what end i pray , hath god sanctified it ? is it , that it may be laid up , and be hid from that people , which christ hath prayed , might be sanctified by it ? is it any otherwise sanctified , but as it is appointed for the use of the church of all that believe ? is this to make it common , to apply it unto that use , whereunto of god it is segregated ? doth the sanctification of the scripture , consist in the laying up of the book of the bible , from our profane utensils ? is this that , which is intended by the author ? would it do him any good to have it granted , or further his purpose ? doth the mysteriousness of it , lie in the books being locked up ? i suppose , he understands this sophistry well enough , which makes it the worse . but we have other things , yet pleaded , as the example of the hebrew church , who neither in the time of moses , nor after , translated the scripture into the syriack ; yea , the book was privately kept in the ark or tabernacle , not touched or looked on by the people , but brought forth at times to the priest , who might upon the sabbath day read some part of it to the people , and put them in mind of their laws , religion , and duty . i confess , in this passage , i am compelled to suspect more of ignorance then fraud ; notwithstanding the flourishing made in the distribution of the old testament , into the law , prophets , and h●giography . for first , as to the translation of the scripture by the jews into the syriack tongue , to what purpose doth he suppose , should this be done ? it could possibly be for no other than that , for which , his masters keep the bible in latine . i suppose , he knows , that at least until the captivity , when most of the scripture was written , the hebrew , and not the syriack , was the vulgar language of that people . it 's true indeed , that some of the noble and chief men that had the transaction of affairs with neigbhour-nations , had learned the syriack language toward the end of their monarchy ; but the body of the people were all ignorant of it , as is expresly declared , kings . . to what end then should they translate the scripture into that language , which they knew not , out of that , which alone they were accustomed to from their infancy , wherein it was written ? had they done so , indeed it would have been a good argument for the romanists to have kept it in latine , which their people understand almost as well as the jews did syriack . i thought , it would never have been questioned , but that the judaical church had enjoyed the scripture of the old testament , in their own vulgar language , and that without the help of a translation . but we must not be confident of any thing for the future . for the present this i know , that not only the whole scripture that was given the church for its use before the captivity , was written in the tongue that they all spake and understood , but that the lord sufficiently manifests , that what he speaks unto any , he would have it delivered unto them in their own language ; and therefore appointing the jews what they should say unto the chaldean idolaters , he expresseth his mind in the caldee tongue , jerem. . . where alone , in the scripture , there is any use made of a dialect , distinct from that in vulgar use ; and that because the words were to be spoken unto them , to whom that dialect was vulgar . and when after the captivity , the people had learned the caldee language , some parts of some books then written , are therein expressed to shew , that it is not this , or that language , which on its own account , is to confine the compass of holy writ ; but that that , or those , are to be used , which the people , who are concerned in it , do understand . but what language soever it was in , it was kept privately in the ar● or tabernacle , not touched , not looked upon by the people , but brought forth at times to the priest. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 what book was kept in the ark ? the law , prophets , and hagiography ? who told you so ? a copy of the law indeed , or pentateuch , was by god's command put in the side of the ark , deut. . . that the prophets , or hagiography , were ever placed there , is a great mistake of our author ; but not so great as that that follows ; that the book placed in the side of the ark , was brought forth for the priest to read in on the sabbath days ; when as all men know , the ark was placed in the sanctum sanctorum of the tabernacle and temple , which only the high priest entred , and that once a a year , and that without liberty of bringing any thing out which was in it , for any use whatever . and his mistake is grossest of all , in imagining , that they had no other copies of the law or scripture , but what was so laid up in the side of the ark. the whole people being commanded to study in it continually , and the king in special , to writeout a copy of it with his own hand , deut. . . out of an authentick copy ; yea , they were to take sentences out of it ; to write them on their fringes , and posts of their doors and houses , and on their gates ; all to bind them to a constant use of them . so that this instance , on very many accounts was unhappily stumbled on by our author , who , ( as it seems ) knows very little of these things . he was then evidently in haste , or wanted better provision , when on this vain surmise , he proceeds to the encomiums of his catholick mother's indulgence to her children , in leaving of the scripture in the hands of all that understand greek and latin ( how little a portion of her family ; and to a declamation against ) the preaching and disputing of men about it , with a commendation of that reverential ignorance , which will arise in men from whom the means of their better instruction is kept at a distance . another discourse we have annexed to prove , that the bible cannot be well translated , and that it loseth much of its grace and sweetness , arising from a peculiarity of spirit in its writers , by any translation whatever . i do , for my part , acknowledg , that no translation is able in all things universally to exhibit , that fulness of sense , and secret vertue , to intimate the truth it expresseth to the mind of a believer , w●● is in many passages of scripture in its original languages ; but how this will further the romanists pretensions who have enthroned a translatiō for the use of their whole church , and that none of the best neither , but in many things corrupt and barbarous , i know not : those who look on the tongues wherein the scripture was originally written as their fountains , if at any time they find the streams not so clear , or not to give so sweet a rellish as they expected , are at liberty , if able , to repair to the fountains themselves . but those who reject the fountains , and betake themselves to one only stream , for ought i know must abide by their own inconveniencies , without complaining . to say , the bible cannot be well translated , and yet to make use , principally at least , of a translation , with an undervaluing of the originals , argues no great consistency of judgement , or a prevalency of interest . that which our author in this matter sets off with a handsome flourish of words , and some very unhandsome similitudes , considering what he treats of , he sums up , p. . in these words ; i would by all say thus much , the bible translated out of its own sacred phrase into a prophane and common one , loseth both its propriety and amplitude of meaning , and is likewise devested of its peculiar majesty , holiness , and spirit : which is reason enough , if no other , why it should be kept inviolate in its own style and speech . so doth our author advance his wisdom and judgment above the wisdom and judgment of all churches and nations that ever embraced the faith of christ for a years ; all which , notwithstanding what there is of truth in any of his insinuations , judged it their duty , to translate the scripture into their mother tongues , very many of which translations are extant even to this day . besides , he concludes with us in general ambiguors terms , as all along in other things his practice hath been . what means he by the bible's own sacred phrase , opposed to a prophane and common one . would not any man think , that he intended the originals wherein it was written ? but i dare say , if any one will ask him privately , he will give them another account ; and let them know , that it is a translation , which he adorns with those titles ; so , that upon the matter , he tells us , that seeing the bible cannot be without all the inconveniences mentioned , it 's good for us to lay aside the originals , and make use only of a translation ; or at least preferre a translation before them . what shall we do with those men that speak such swords and daggers , and are well neither full nor fasting , that like the scripture , neither with a translation , nor without it ? moreover , i fear , he knows not well , what he means , by its own sacred phrase , and a prophane common one ; is it the syllables and words of this or that language , that he intends ? how comes one , to be sacred , another prophane and common ? the languages wherein the scriptures were originally written , have been put to as bad uses , as any under heaven ; nor is any language prophane or common so , as that the worship of god performed in it , should not be accepted with him , that there is a frequent loss of propriety and amplitude of meaning in translations , we grant . that the scriptures by translations , if good , true , and significant , according to the capacity and expressiveness of the languages whereinto they are translated , are divested of the majesty , holiness , and spirit , is most untrue . the majesty , holiness , and spirit of the scriptures , lyes not in words and syllables , but in the truths themselves expressed in them : and whilest these are incorruptedly declared in any language , the majesty of the word is continued . it is much , that men preferring a translation before the originals , should be otherwise minded ; especially , that translation being , in some parts , but the translation of a translation , and that the most corrupt in those parts , which i know extant . and this with many fine words , prety allusions , and similitudes , is the sum of what is pleaded by our author , to perswade men to forgo the greatest priviledg , which from heaven they are made partakers of , & the most necessary radical duty that in their whole lives is incumbent on them . it is certain , that the giving out of the holy scripture from god , is an effect of infinite love and mercy ; i suppose it no less certain , that the end for which he gave it , was , that men by it might be instructed in the knowledge of his will , and their obedience that they owe unto him , that so at length they may come to the enjoyment of him . this it self declares to be its end . i think also , that to know god , his mind and will , to yield him the obedience that he requires , is the bounden duty of every man ; as well as , to enjoy him , is their blessedness . and , can they take it kindly of those , who would shut up this gift of god from them whether they will or no ? or be well pleased with them that go about to perswade them , that it is best for them , to have it kept by others for them ; without their once looking into it , if i know them aright , this gentleman will not find his countrey-men willing to part with their bibles on such easie tearms . from the scripture , concerning which he affirmeth , that it lawfully may , and in reason ought , and in practise ever hath been segregated in a language not common to vulgar ears , all which things are most unduly affirmed , and , because we must speak plainly , falsly ; he proceeds to the worship of the church , and pleads that that also ought to be performed in such a language . it were a long and tedious business , to follow him in his guilding over this practise of his church ; we may make short work with him . as he will not pretend , that this practise hath the least countenance from scripture ; so , if he can instance in any church in the world , that for years , at least , after it , set out in the use of a worship , the language whereof the people did not understand , i will cease this contest . what he affirms of the hebrew church keeping her rites in a language differing from the vulgar , whether he intend before or after the captivity , is so untrue , as that i suppose , no ingenious man would affirm it , were he not utterly ignorant of all judaical antiquity , which i had cause to suspect before , that our author is . from the dayes of moses to the captivity of babylon , there was no language in vulgar use among the people , but only that wherein the scripture was written , and their whole worship celebrated . after the captivity , though insensibly they admitted corruptions in their language , yet they all generally understood the hebrew , unless it were the hellenists , for whose sakes they translated the scripture into greek ; and , for the use of the residue of their people , who began to take in a mixture of the syro-chaldean language with their own , the targum were found out . besides , to the very utmost period of that church , the solemn worship performed in the temple , as to all the interest of words in it , was understood by the whole people , attending on god therein . and in that language did the bible lye open in their synagogues , as is evident from the offer made by them to our saviour of their books to read in , at his first entrance into one at capernaum . these flourishes then of our orator , being not likely to have the least effect upon any who mind the apostololical advice of taking heed lest they be beguiled with inticing words , we shall not need much to insist upon them . this custom of performing the worship of god in the congregation in a tong unknown to the assembly , renders , he tells us , that great act more majestick and venerable ; but why , he declares not . a blind veneration of what men understand not , because they understand it not , is neither any duty of the gospel , nor any part of its worship . st. paul tells us , he would pray with the spirit , and pray with understanding also ; of this majestick shew , and blind veneration of our author , scripture , reason , experience of the saints of god , custom of the antient churches know nothing . neither is it possible to preserve in men a perpetual veneration of they know not what , nor , if it could be preserved , is it a thing that any way belongs to christian religion . nor can any rational man conceive , wherein consists the majesty of a mans pronouncing words , in matters wherein his concernment lies , in a tongue that he understands not . and i know not wherein this device for procuring veneration in men , exceeds that of the gnosticks , who fraught their sacred administrations , with strange uncouth names and terms , intended , as farr as appears , for no other end but to astonish their disciples . but then the church , he saith , as opposite to babel , had one language all the world over , the latine tongue being stretched as large and as wide as the catholick church , and so any priest may serve in several countries administring presently in a place by himself or others converted , which are conveniencies attending this custom and practise . prety things to perswade men to worship god they know not how ; or to leave that unto others to do for them , which is their own duty to perform ; and yet neither are they true . the church by this means is made rather like to babel , then opposite unto it : the fatal ruining event of the division of the tongues at babel was , that by that means they could not understand one another in what they said , and so were forced to give over that design which before they unanimously carried on . and this is the true , event of some mens performing the worship of god in the latine tongue , which others understand not . their languages are divided as to any use of language whatever . i believe , on this , as well as on other accounts , our author now he is warned , will take heed , how he mentions babel , any more . besides this is not one to give one lip , one language , to whole church , but in some things to confine some of the church , unto one language , which incomparably the the greatest part of it do not understand . this is confusion not union . still babel , returns in it . the use of a language that the greatest part of men do not understand , who are ingaged in the same work , whereabout it is employed , is right old babel . nor can any thing be more vain then the pretence , that this one is stretched , as large and as wide as the catholick church ; farr the greatest part of it know nothing of this tongue , no● did ever use a word of it in their church-service ; so that the making of the use of one tongue necessary in the service of the church is perfectly schismatical ; and renders the avowers of that principle , schismaticks , from the greatest part of the churches of christ in the world , which are , or ever were in it , since the day of his resurrection from the dead . and as for the conveniency of priests ; there where god is pleased to plant churches , he will provide those , who shall administer in his name unto them , according to his mind . and those , who have not the language of other places , as far as i know , may stay at home , where they may be understood , rather then undertake a pilgrimage to ca●t before strangers , who know not what they mean. after an annumeration of these conveences , he mentions , that only inconvenience , which , as he sayes , attends the solemnization of the churches worship in a tongue unknown , namely that the vulgar people understand not what is said . but , as this is not the only inconv●nience that attends it , so it is one ; if it must be called an inconvenience , and not rather a mischievous device to render the worship of god useless , that hath a womb full of many others , more then can easily be numbred ; but we must tye our selves to what our author pleaseth to take notice of . i desire then to know , what are these vulgar people , of whom he talks ? are they not such as have souls to save ? are they not incomparably the greatest part of christians ? are they not such as god commands to worship him ? are they not such , for whose sakes , benefit , and advantages , all the worship of the church is ordained , and all the admistration of it appointed ? are they not those , whose good , welfare , growth in grace and knowledge , and salvation , the priests in their whole offices , are bound to seek and regard ? are they not those , that christ hath purchased with his blood ; whose miscarriages he will require severely at the hands of those , who undertake to be their guides , if sinning through a neglect of duty in them ? are they not the church of god , the temple of the holy ghost ? called to be saints ? or , who , or what is it , you mean by this vulgar people ? if they be those described , certainly their understanding of what is done in the publick worship of god , is a matter of importance ; and your driving them from it , seems to me to give a supersedeas to the whole work it self , as to any acceptation with god. for my part , i cannot as yet discern what that makes in the church of god , which this vulgar people must not understand ; but this , saith he , is of no moment . why so ? i pray ; to me it seems of great weight . no , it is of no moment , for three reasons . which be they ? . they have the scope of all , set down in their prayer-books , &c. whereby they may , if they please , as equally conspire , and go along with the priest , as if he spoke in their own tongue . but , i pray , sir , tell me , why , if this be good , that they should know something , and give a guess at more ; it is not better , that they should distinctly know and understand it all ? this reason plainly cuts the throat , not only of some other that went before , about the venerable majesty of that , which is not understood , but of the whole cause it self . if to know what is spoken , be good ; the clearer men understand it , i think , the better . this being the tendency of this reason , we shall finde the last of the three , justling it as useless , quite out of doors . nor yet is there truth in this pretence ; not one of a thousand of the people , do understand one word , that the priest speaks distinctly in their whole service ; so that this is but an empty flourish . he tells us , . catholick people come together , not for other business at the mass , but only with fervour of devotion , to adore christ crucified ; in that rite he is there prefigured as crucified before them , and by the mediation of that sacred blood , to pour forth their supplications for themselves and others ; which being done , and their good purpose of serving and pleasing that holy lord , that shed his blood for us , renewed , they depart in peace : this is the general purpose of the mass ; so that eyes and hands to lift up , knees to bow , and heart to melt , are there of more use then ears to hear . for his catholick peoples business at mass , i shall not much trouble my self . christ i know , is adored by faith and love ; that faith and love , in the publick worship of the church , is exercised by prayer and thanksgiving . for the lifting up of the eyes and hands , and bowing , and cringing , they are things indifferent , that may be used , as they are animated by that faith & love , and no otherwise . and , i desire to know , what supplications they come to pour forth for themselves and others . their private devotions ? they may do that at home ; the doing of it in the church , is contrary to the apostle's rule . are they the publick prayers of the church ? alas , the trumpet to them , and of them , gives an uncertain found . they know not how to prepare themselves to the work . nor can they rightly say amen , when they understand not what is said . so that , for my part , i understand not what is the business of catholicks at mass ; or how they can perform any part of their duty to god in it , or at it . but what if they understand of it nothing at all ? he adds , . there is no need at all for the people to hear or understand the priest , when he speaks , or prays , and sacrifices to god , on their behalf . sermons to the people must be made in the peoples language ; but prayers that are made to god for them , if they be made in a language that god understands , it is well enough . this reason renders the others useless , and especially shuts the first out of doors . for , certainly it is nothing to the purpose , that the people understand somewhat ; if it be no matter whether they understand any thing at all , or no. but i desire to know , what prayers of the priest they are , which it matt●rs not , whether the people hear or understand ? are they his private devotions for them in his closet or cell , which may be made for them , as well when they are absent , as present , and in some respect better too ? these doubtless are not intended . are they any prayers that concern the priest alone , which he is to repeat , though the people be present ? no , nor these neither ; at least not only these . but they are the prayers of the church , wherein the whole assembly ought to cry joyntly unto almighty god ; part of that worship , wherein all things are to be done to edification ; which they are in this , and the quakers silent meetings , much alike . strange ! that there is no need , that men should know or understand that , which is their duty to perform ; and which if they do it not , is not that , which it pretends to be ; the worship of the church . again , if the people neither need hear , nor understand what is spoken , i wonder , what they make there . can our author find any tradition ( for , i am sure , scripture he cannot ) for the setting up of a dumb shew in the church , to edifie men by signs , and gestures , and words insignificant ? these are gallant attempts . i suppose , he doth not think it was so of old ; for , sure i am , that all the sermons , which we have of any of the antients , were preached in that very language , wherein they celebrated all divine worship ; so that if the people understood the sermons , as he sayes , they must be made to them in a language they understand ; i am sure , they both heard and understood the worship of the church also : but tempora mutantur ; and , if it be enough , that god understands the language used in the church , we full well know there is no need to use any language in it at all . but to evidence the fertility of his invention , our author offers two things to confirm this wilde assertion . . that the jews neither heard , nor saw when their priest went into the sanctum sanctorum , to offer prayers for them ; as we may learn from the gospel , where the people stood without , whilest zacharias was praying at the altar . . saint paul at corinth , desired the prayers of the romans for him at that distance , who also then used a language that was not used at corinth . these reasons , it seems , are thought of moment ; let us a little poize them . for the first , our author is still the same in his discovery of skill in the rites and customs of the judaical church ; and , being so great , as i imagine it is , i shall desire him , in his next , to inform us , who told him , that zacharias entred into the sanctum sanctorum to pray , when the people were without ; but let that pass : by the institution and appointment of god himself , the priests in their courses , were to burn incense on the altar of incense , in a place separated from the people , it being no part of the worship of the people , but a typical representation of the intercession of christ in heaven , confined to the performance of the priests by god himself ; ergo under the gospel , there is no need , that the people should either learn or understand those prayers , which god requires by them , and amongst them . this is civil logick . besides , i suppose , our author had forgot , that the apostle paul in his epistle to the hebrews , doth purposely declare , how those mosaical distances are now removed by christ , a free access being granted to believers with their worship , to the throne of grace . but there is scarce a prettier fancy in his whole discourse , then his application of st. paul's desiring the romans to pray for him , when he was at corinth , and so consequently the praying of all or any of the people of god , for their absent friends , or the whole church , to the business in hand ; especially as it is attended with the enforcement in the close , that they used a language not understood at corinth . but because i write not to men , who care not whether they hear or understand , what is their duty in the greatest concernments of their souls , i shall not remove it out of the way , nor hinder the reader from partaking in the entertainment it will afford him . but our author foreseeing , that even those with whom he intends chiefly to deal , might possibly remember , that st. paul had long ago stated this case in cor. . he findes it necessary to cast a blind before them , that if they will but fix their eyes upon it , and not be at the pains to turn to their bibles , as it may be some will not , he may escape that sword , which he knows is in the way ready drawn against him ; and therefore tells us , that if any yet will be obstinate , and which after so many good words spent in this business , he seems to marvel that they should , and object what the apostle there writes against praying and prophesying in an unknown tongue , he hath three answers in a readiness for him ; whereof the first is that doubty one last mentioned ; namely , that the prayers , which the apostle , when he was at corinth , requested of the romans for him , was to be in an unknown tongue to them that lived at corinth ; when the only question is , whether they were in an unknown tongue to them that lived at rome , who were desired to joyn in those supplications . surely this argument , that because we may pray for a man , when and where he knows not , and in a tongue , which he understands not , that therefore the worship of a church , all assembled together in one place , all to joyn together in it unto the edification of that whole society , may be performed in a language unknown to them so assembled ; is not of such cogency , as so suddenly to be called over again : wherefore letting that pass , he tells us , the design of the apostle in that place , is , to prevent the abuse of spiritual gifts , which in those days men had received , and especially that of tongues , which he lets them know , was liable to greater inconveniences , then the rest there mentioned by him . but what , i pray , if this be the design of the apostle ? doth it follow , that in the pursuit of this design , he teaches nothing concerning the use of an unknown tongue in the worship of god ? could i promise my self , that every reader did either retain in his memory what is there delivered by the apostle , or would be at the pains on this occasion to read over the chapter , i should have no need to add one word in this case more . for , what are the words of a poor weak man to those of the holy ghost speaking directly to the same purpose ? but this being not from all to be expected , i shall only mind them of some few things there determined by the apostle ; which if it do but occasion him to consider the text it self , i shall obtain my purpose . the gift of speaking with strange tongues , being bestowed on the church of corinth , that they might be a sign unto them that did not believe , of the power and presence of god amongst them , ver . . divers of them , finding , it seems , that the use of these tongues , gave them esteem and reputation in the church , did usually exercise that gift in the assembly , and that with contempt and undervaluation of prophesying in a known tongue to the edification of the whole church . to prevent this abuse , the apostle layes down this for a standing rule ; that all things are to be done in the church unto edifying , and that this , all men , as to gifts , were to seek for , that they might excell to the edifying of the church ; that is , the instructing of others in knowledge , and the exciting of the grace of god in them . and thereupon he shews them , that whatever is spoken in an unknown tongue , whether it be in a way of prayer , or prophesying in the assemblies , indeed tends nothing at all , to this purpose : unless it be so , that after a man hath spoken in a tongue unknown , he doth interpret what he hath so spoken , in that language , which they do understand . for , saith he , distribute the church into two parts , he that speaks with a tongue ( whether he pray or preach ) and those that hear ; he that so prays and preaches , edifies and benefits himself ; but he doth not benefit them that hear him : and that because they understand not what he sayes , nor know what he means . for , saith he , such words as are not understood , are of no more use , than the indistinct noise of harps , or the confused noise of trumpets . the words , it is true , have a signication in themselves ; but what is that , saith he , to them that hear them , and understand them not . they can never joyn with him , in what he speaks , nor say amen , or give an intelligent assent to what he hath spoken . and therefore , he tells them , that , for his part , he had rather speak five words , that being understood , might be for their profit , then a thousand in an unknown tongue ; which though they would manifest the excellency of his gift , yet would not at all profit the church , whether he prayed or prophesied ; with much more to the same purpose . it is hence evident to any impartial reader , that the whole strength of the apostle's discourse , and reasoning in this case , lies in this , that praying or prophecying in the church in a tongue unknown , not understood by the whole church , though known and understood by him that useth it , is of no use , nor any way tends to the benefit of the church ; but is a meer confusion to be cast out from among them . the case is no other that lies before us . the priest says his prayers in a tongue that , it may be , is known to himself , which is no great gift ; the people understand nothing of what he sayes . this , if the apostle may be believed , is a thing of no use , practised to no purpose ; wherewith the people that understand not , cannot joyn , whereby they are not at all profited , nor can they say amen , or give a rational assent to what he speaks . now , saith our author , what is all this to the service of the church ? i say , so much to that service , which he pleads for , as that it is condemned by it , as altogether useless , unprofitable , and not to be longer insisted on ; yea , and this is so much worse than the case proposed by the apostles , in as much as those , who prayed and prophesied with tongues , received the gift and ability of so doing , in a miraculous manner from the holy ghost . and therefore might with much colour of reason plead for the free liberty of the exercise of those gift , which they had so received ; but our readers of the service , do with much labour and pains get to read it in latin ; doing it by choice , without any intimation for such a practice from any gift , that above others they have received . if all this will not do , there is that which brings up the rear , that shall make all plain . namely , that whatever is pretended , yet indeed latin is no unknown tongue , being the proper language of christians , united to the christian faith , as a garment to a body ? which he proves by many fine illustrations and similitudes ; telling us withall , that this one language is not spoken in a corner , but runs quite through the earth , and is common to all , as they be ranked in the series of christianity , wherein they are trained up by the father of the family , and which , in reference to religion , he only speaks himself . but because , i hope , there is none of my countrymen so stupid , as not to have the wit of the cynick , who , when a crafty companion would prove by syllogisms , that there is no such thing as motion , returned him no other answer , but by rising up and walking ; and will be able at least to say , that notwithstanding all these fine words , i know , that latin to the most of christians is an unknown tongue ; i shall not much trouble my self to return any answer unto this discourse . that there is an abstraction of christian religion , from the persons professing it , which hath a language peculiar unto it ; that the latin tongue hath a special relation to religion above any other ; that it is any other way the trade-language of religion amongst learned men , but as religion comes under the notion of the things about which some men communicate their minds one to another ; that it is any way understood by the thousandth part of christians in the world , that constantly attend the worship of god ; and so that it is not absolutely as unknown a tongue to them , when it is used in the service of the church , as any other in the world whatever ; are such monstrous presumptions , as i wonder , a rational man would make himself guilty of , by giving countenance unto them . for him , whom he calls the father of the family of christians ; if it be god , he intends the only father of the family , all men know , he 〈◊〉 to any of the sons of men immediately , nor by any prophet by him inspired , communicated his mind in latine : if it be the pope of rome , whom he ascribeth that title unto , i am sorry for the man ; not knowing how well he could make himself guilty of an higher blasphemy . chap. xix . communion . sect. . in the next section , entituled table , our author seems to have lost more of the moderation that he pretends unto , & to have put a keener edg upon his spirit , then in any of those fore-going ; and thence it is , that he falls out into some more open revilings , and flourishes of a kind of a dispute , than elsewhere . in the entrance of his discourse , speaking of the administration of the sacrament of the lords supper by protestants , wherein the laity are also made partakers of the blessed cup , according to the institution of our saviour , the practice of the apostles and the universal primitive church ; this civil gentleman who complains of unhansome and unmannerly dealings , of others in their writings , compares it to a treatment at my lord maiors feast , adding scornfully enough , for who would not have drink to their meat ? and what reason can be given , that they should not ? or that a feast with wine should not , caeteris paribus , be better then without . if he suppose , he shall be able to scoff the institutions of christ out of the world , and to laugh men out of their obedience unto him , i hope , he will find himself mistaken , which is all , i shall at present say unto him ; only , i would advise him to leave for the future such unseemly taunts , lest he should provoke some angry men to return expressions of the like contempt and scorn , upon the transubstantiated host , which he not only fancies , but adores . from hence he pretends to proceed unto disputing ; but being accustomed to a loose rhetorical sophistry , he is not able to take one smooth step towards the true stating of the matter he is to speak unto , though he sayes , he will argue in his plain manner , that is , a manner plainly his , loose , in concluding , sophistical . the plain story is this , christ instituting his blessed supper , appointed bread and wine , to be blessed and delivered unto them that he invites and admits unto it : of the effect of the blessing of these elements of bread and wine , whether it be a transubstantiation of them into the body and bloud of christ , to be corporeally eaten ; or a consecration of them into such signes and symbols , as in and by the use thereof , we are made partakers of the body and bloud of christ , feeding really on him by faith , is not at all now under dispute . of the bread and cup so blessed , according to the appointment of christ , the priests with the romanists only do partake , the people of the bread only . this exclusion of the people from a participation of the cup , protestants averre to be contrary to the institution of christ , practice of the apostles , nature of the sacrament , constant usage of them in the primitive church , and so consequently highly injurious to the sheep of christ , whom he hath bought with the price of his bloud , exhibited in that cup unto them . instead of arguing plainly , as he promised to do , in justification of this practise of the church of rome , he tells us of the wine they give their people after they have received the body ; which he knows to be in their own esteem , a little common drink to wash their mouths , that no crums of their wafer should stick by the way . what he adds , of protestants not believing , that the consecrated wine is transubstantiated into the bloud of christ , ( which is not the matter by himself proposed to debate ) , of the priest's using both bread and wine in the sacrifice , ( though he communicates not both unto the people , ) when the priest's delivering of the cup , is no part of the sacrifice , but of the communion , ( besides he knows , that he speaks to protestants , and so should not have pleaded his fictitious sacrifice , which , as distinct from the communion , paul speaks of , cor. . neither do they acknowledge , nor can he prove it very vain , yet with these empty flourishes , it is incredible , how he triumphs over protestants , for charging the romanists with excluding the people from the use of the cup in the sacrament ; when yet it is certain , they do so , nor can he deny it . yea , but protestants should not say so , seeing they believe not in transubstantiation . they believe every word , that christ or his apostles have delivered , concerning the nature and use of the sacrament , and all that the primitive church taught about it ; if this will not enable them to say , the romanists do that , which all the world knows they do , and which they will not deny but that they do , unless they believe in transubstantion also ; they are dealt withall on more severe terms , then i think our author is authorized to put upon them . but , it seems , the advantage lies so much in this matter on the roman-catholicks side , that the protestants may be for ever silent about it ; and why so ? why catholicks do really partake of the animated and living body of their redeemer ; this ought to be done , to the end we may have life in us , and yet protestants do it not . who told you so ? protestants partake of his body and his blood too , which papists do not ; and that really and truly . again ; catholicks have it continually sacrificed before their eyes and the very death and effusion of their lords bloud prefigured and set before them , for faith to feed upon : this protestants have not . i think the man is mistaken ; and that he intended to say the catholicks have not , and to place protestants in the beginning of the sentence ; for it is certain , that this is the very doctrine of the protestants concerning this sacrament . they have in it the sacrifice of christ before their eyes , and the death and effusion of his bloud , figured , ( for how that should be prefigured which is past , i know not ) and set forth for faith to feed upon ; this they say , this they teach , and believe ; when i know not how catholicks can have any thing figured unto them , nothing being the sign of its self ; nor is it the feeding of faith , but of the mouth , that they are sollicitous about . but this , saith he , they do not ; though he had not spoken of any doing before , which is an old last that we have been now well used to ; and , yet this , saith he , ought to be done : for so our lord commanded , when he said to his apostles , hoc facite , this do ye , which ye have seen me to do , and in that manner you see me do it ; exercising before your eye my priestly function according to the order of melchisedech , with which power i do also invest you , and appoint you to do the like , even unto the consummation of the world , in commemoration of my death and passion , exhibiting and shewing forth your lords death until he come . this protestants do not , and we are mad-angry , that the papist does what his redeemer injoyned him . i fear , his readers , which shall consider this odd medly , will begin to think , that they are not only protestants who use to be mad-angry . this kind of writing argues , i will not say , both madness and anger , but one of them it doth seem plainly to do . for , setting aside a far-fetched false notion or two about melchisedech , and the doctrine of the sacrament here expressed , is that which the pope with fire and sword hath laboured to exterminate out of the world , burning hundreds ( i think ) in england for believing , that our lord , instituting his blessed supper , commanded his apostles to do the same that he then did , and in the same manner , even to the consummation of the world , in the commemoration of his death , and passion , exhibiting and shewing forth their lord's death until he come ; a man would suppose , that he had taken these words out of the liturgie of the church of england ; for therein are they expresly found ; and why then have not protestants that which he speaks of . yea , but christ did this in the exercise of his priestly function , and with the same power of priesthood , according to the order of melchisedech , invested his apostles . both these may be granted , and the protestants doctrine , and faith , concerning this sacrament not at all impeached ; but the truth is , they are both false . the lord christ exercised indeed his priestly function , when on the cross he offered himself to god through the eternal spirit a sacrifice for the sins of the world ; but it was by vertue of his kingly and prophetical power that he instituted the sacrament of his body and bloud , and taught his disciples the use of it , commanding its observation in all his churches to the end of the world . and as for any others , being made priests after the order of melchisedeck , besides himself alone , it 's a figment so expresly contrary to the words and reasoning of the apostle , that i wonder any man not mad or angry , could once entertain any approving thoughts of it . that our author may no more mistake in this matter , i desire he would give me leave to inform him , that setting aside his proper sacrificing of the son of god , and his hideous figment of transubstanatition , both utter strangers to the scripture and antiquity , there is nothing can by him be named , concerning this sacrament as to its honour or efficacy , but it is all admitted by protestants . he pretends , after this loose harangue , to speak to the thing it self ; and tells us , that the consecrated chalice is not ordinarily given to people by the priest in private communion ; as though in some cases , it were given amongst them to the body of the people , or that they had some publick communion wherein it was ordinarily so given ; both which he knows to be untrue . so impossible it seems for him to speak plainly and directly to what he treats on . but it is a thing which hath need of these artifices ; if one falsity be not covered with another , it will quickly rain through all . however , he tells us , that they should do so , is neither expedient nor necessary as to any effects of the sacrament . i wish , for his own sake , some course might be found to take him off this confidence of setting himself against the apostles , and the whole primitive church at once ; that he might apprehend the task too difficult for him to undertake , and meddle with it no more . all expediency in the administration of this great ordinance , and all the effects of it , depend solely on the institution and blessing of christ ; if he have appointed the use of both elements , what are we , poor worms , that we should come , now in the end of the world , and say , the use of one of them is not expedient nor necessary to any effects of communion ? are we wiser then he ? have we more care of his church then he had ? or , do we think , that it becomes us thus arbitrarily to chuse , and refuse in the institutions of our lord and master ? what is it to us , what cavils soever men can lay , that it is not necessary in the way of protestants , nor in the way of catholicks ; we know it is necessary in the way of christ. and if either protestants or catholicks leave that way , for me they shall walk in their own wayes by themselves . but why is it not necessary in the way of protestants ? because they place the effect of the communion in the operation of faith , and therefore , according to them , one kind is enough ; nay , if we have neither kind , there is no loss but of a ceremony , which may be well enough supplyed at our ordinary tables . this is prety logick , which , it seems , our author learned out of smith and seaton . protestants generally think , that men see with their eyes ; and yet they think the light of the sun necessary to the exercising of their sight ; and though they believe , that all saving effects of the sacrament depend on the operation of faith , ( and catholicks do so too , at least , i am sure , they say so ; ) yet they believe also , that the sacrament , which christ appointed , and the use of it , as by him appointed , is necessary in its own kind , for the producing of those effects . these things destroy not , but mutually assist one another , working effectually in their several kinds to the same end and purpose . nor can there be any operation of faith , as to the special end of the sacrament , without the administration of it , according to the mind and will of christ. besides , protestants know , that the frequent distinct proposals in the scripture of the benefits of the death of christ , as arising sometimes from the suffering of the body , sometimes from the effusion of the bloud of their saviour , leads them to such a distinct acting of faith upon him , and receiving of him , as must needs be hindred and disturbed in the administration of the sacrament under one kind ; especially , if that symbol be taken from them , which is peculiarly called his testament , and that bloud wherewith his covenant with them , was sealed : so that , according to the principles of the protestants , the participation of the cup is of an indispensible necessity unto them that intend to use that ordinance to their benefit and comfort ; and what he addes , about drinking at our ordinary tables ; because we are now speaking plainly , i must needs tell him , is a prophane piece of scurrility , which he may do well to abstain from for the future . what is , or is not necessary , according to their catholick doctrine , we shall not trouble our selves , knowing that which is so called by him , to be very farr from being truly catholick ; the romanists doctrine of concomitancy , being a late figment to countenance their spoyling the people of the legacy of christ , unknown to antiquity , and contrary to scripture , and enervating the doctrine of the death of christ , whose most pretious bloud was truly separated from his body , the benefit of which separation is exhibited unto us in the sacrament , by himself appointed to represent it ; we neither believe nor value . as the necessity of it is denyed , so also , that there is any precept for it ; what think you then of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ; drink you all of it ; that is , this cup : they think this to be a precept to be observed towards all those who come to this supper . what christ did , that he commanded his apostles to do ; he gives the cup to all that were present at his supper , and commands them all to dri●● of it ; why , i pray , are they not to do so ? why is not this part of his command as obligatory to them , as any others ? alass , they were the priests that were present , all lay people were excluded ; not one was excluded from the cup that was there at any part of the ordinance . what , if they were all priests , that were there , as no one of them was , was the supper administred to them as priests , or as disciples ? or is there any colour or pretence , to say , that one kind was given to them as priests , another as disciples ; dic aliquem , dic , quintiliane , colorem . was not the whole church of christ represented by them ? is not the command equal to all ? nay , as if on purpose to obviate this sacrilegious figment , is not this word ( drink you all of this ) , added emphatically , above what is spoken of the other kind ? many strange things there are , which these gentlemen would have us believe about this sacrament ; but none of them of a more incredible nature then this , that when christ says to all his communicants , drink you all of this , and commands them to do the same that he did , his meaning was , that we should say , drink you none of this . they had need , not of a spatula linguae , to let such things as those down our throats , but a bed-staffe to cram them down , or they will choak us in the swallowing ; and , i am sure , will not well digest , when received . he must have an iron-stomach , that can concoct such crude morsels . but if this will not do , he would fain have us grant , that the whole manner of giving the communion unto the laity , whether under one , or both kinds , is left to the disposition of the church ; i tell you truly , i should have thought so too , had not christ and his apostles before-hand determined it : but as the case stands , it is left so much to the disposition of the church , whether the blessed cup shall be administred to the people , as it is , whether we shall have any sacraments or no , and not one jot more . and let not our author flatter himself , that it was a pre-conceived opinion of the arbitrariness of this business , that made men scruple it no more in former ages , when the cup was first taken from them . they scrupled it , until you had roasted some of them in the fire , and shed the bloud of multitudes by the sword , which was the old way of satisfying scruples . at length our author ventures on st. paul , and hopes , if he can satisfie him he shall do well enough ; and tells us , this indifferent use of communion amongst the antient christians in either kind , sometimes the one , sometimes the other , sometimes both , is enough to verifie that of st. paul , we are all partakers of one bread and of one cup. but what is this indifferent use , and who are these antient christians he tells us of ? neither is the use of one or of both indifferent among the papists , nor did the antient christians know any thing at all of this business of depriving the people of the cup ; which is but a by-blow of transubstantiation . he knows they knew nothing of it , whatever he pretends . neither doth the apostle paul say nakedly , and only , that we are all partakers of one bread and one cup ; but , instructing the whole church of corinth in the right use of the lords supper , he calls to mind what he had formerly taught them , as to the celebration of it ; and this he tells them was the imitation of the lord himself , according as he had received it in command from him , to give the blessed bread and cup to all the communicants . this he lays down as the institution of christ ; this he calls them to the right use and practice of ; telling the whole church , that as often as they eat this bread , and drink this cup , ( not eat the bread without the cup ) they do shew forth the lord's death until he come . and therefore doth he teach them how to perform their duty herein , in a due manner : ver. . let , saith he , a man examine himself , and so let him eat of that bread , and drink of that cup. adding the reason of his caution ; for , he that eateth , and drinketh , unworthily , eateth and drinketh , &c. intimating also , that they might miscarry in the use of either element . for , saith he , whosoever shall eat this bread , and drink this cup unworthily . in the administration of the whole supper , you may offend , unless you give heed in the participation of either element . what can possibly be spoken more fully , distinctly , plainly , as to institution , precept , practice , & duty upon all , i know not ? and if we must yet dispute about this matter , whilest we acknowledge the authority of the apostle , i think , there is small hopes of being quit of disputes , whilest this world continues . the pitiful cavils of our author against the apostle's express and often repeated words , deserve not our notice ; yet for the sake of those whom he intends to deceive , i shall briefly shew their insufficiency to invalidate st. paul's authority and reasonings . . he says , that we may easily see what was st. paul 's opinion from those words , whosoever shall eat this bread , or drink this cup of our lord unworthily ; and so say i too , the meaning of them is before declared ; but , saith he , repeating the institution as our lord delivered , he makes him , after the consecration of the bread , say absolutely , do this in commemoration of me . but after the chalice , he speaks with a limitation , do this as oft as you shall drink it , in commemoration of me ; what then ? pray , what are the next words ? are they not , for as often as ye eat this bread , and drink this cup ? is not the same term as often annexed to the one , as well as to the other ? is it a limitation of the use of either , and not a limitation of that kind of commemoration of the lord's death to the use of both ? from these doughty observations , he concludes , that the particle [ and ] in the other text , must needs be taken disjunctively ; we are all partakers of one bread , and of one cup. that is , all of us , either partake of both , or each one , at least , either of the one or other . a brave exposition ! but , what shall we say to the other , and , in the other texts , so often occurring to the same purpose ? are they also to be taken disjunctively ? this , it seems , is to interpret scripture according to the sense of the fathers ; to vent idle cavils , which they were never so weak , or perverse , as once to dream of . had the apostle but once used that expression , this bread , and this cup , yet adjoyning that expression to the institution of christ , commanding the administration of that bread and cup , it were temerarious boldness so to disjoynt his words , and render them incongruous to his purpose ? but repeating the same expression so often as he doth , still with respect to the institution of the ordinance whereof he speaks , to make us believe , that in all those expressions , he intended quite another thing then what he sayes , is a wild attempt . miserable error ! what sorry shifts dost thou cast thy patrons upon ? who would love such a beast , that so claws and tears her embracers ? the trivial instances of the use of the particle ( and or et ) disjunctively , as in that saying , mulier est domûs salus , & ruina ? which is evidently used not of the same individual person , nor of the same actions ▪ but only expresses the different actings of several individuals of the same species , concern not this business ; whose argument is far from being founded alone on the signification of that particle ( though its use be constant enough to found an inference , not to be shaken by a few anomalous instances ) but from the necessary use of it in this place , arising from the context of the apostles discourse . our author further adds , that sometimes the whole sacred synaxis is called breaking of bread , without any mention of the chalice . and what then ? i pray , is not the body of christ , sometimes mentioned without speaking of the blood , and the blood oftner without speaking of the body ; is not the whole supper called the cup , without mentioning of the bread ? cor. . . all by the same synecdoche ? i shall not insist on his gross , palpable mistakes , from luke . . nothing but domineering prejudices could ever put men upon such attempts , for the justifying of their errors . upon the whole matter , we may easily discern , what small cause our author hath from such feeble premises , to erect his triumphant conclusion of the non-necessity of participation of the blessed cup by the people in the sacrament of the lord's supper . as little cause hath he to mention antiquity and tradition from the apostles , which lye universally against him in this matter ; and that there is now no such custome in the romish church , it is because they have taken up a practice contrary to the command and practice of christ and his apostles , and contrary to the custom in obedience thereunto , of all the churches in the whole world . chap. xx. saints . sect . . from the communion , we come to saints ; and these take up the longest discourse of any one subject in the book . our author found it not an easie task to set this practice of his church , in the worship and invocating of saints , right and streight in the minds of sober men . several wayes he turns himself in his attempt , all , as far as i can perceive , to very litle purpose . in all of them , it is evident , that he is ashamed of their practice and principles in this matter ; which makes his undertaking as to protestants so much the worse , in that he invited them to feed upon that , which he himself is unwilling to taste , lest he should be poysoned . at first , he would perswade us , that they had only a respectful memory and reverence for the saints departed , such as ingenuous persons will have for any worthy personages that have formerly ennobled their families : to this , he adds the consideration of their example , and the patterns they have set us in the ways of holiliness , to perswade , and prevail with us to imitate and follow them . and with sundry arguments , doth he dispute for his honourable esteem and imitation of the saints departed . herein then , it may be , lies the difference between them and protestants ; that they contend , that the true saints are to be thus honoured and followed ; protestants are of the mind , that neither of them is to be done : true ; for , luther , wickliff , and especially calvin , have intemperately opened their mouths against all the saints ; calvin in special , against the persons renowned in the old and new testament , noah , abraham , rebecca , jacob , rachel , moses , &c. with a great number of others . naughty man , what hath he said of them ? it is certain in general , that he hath said , that they were all in their dayes sinners . is this to be endured , that calvin , that holy-faced man should say of such holy persons , that they had need to be redeemed and saved by jesus christ ? who can bear such intemperate theiomachy ? nay , but he hath gone further , and charged them every one with sins and miscarriages : if he hath spoken any thing , of their sins and failings , but what god hath left upon record on set purpose in his word , that they might be examples of humane frailty , and testimonies of his grace and mercy in christ towards them , for the encouragement of others that shall be overtaken in the like temptation , as some of them were , let him bear his own burden . if he have said no more , but what the holy ghost hath recorded , for him and others to make use of , i envy not their chear , who triumph in falsly accusing of him . but is this indeed the difference between papists and protestants about the saints ? is this the doctrine of the papists concerning them ? is their practice confined within the limits of these principles ? are these the things , which in their principles and practice , are blamed by protestants ? the truth is , this is the very doctrine , the very practice of protestants . they all joyntly bear a due respect to the memorial of all the saints of god , concerning whom they have assurance that they were so indeed . they praise god for them , admire his grace in them , rejoyce in the fruits of their labours and sufferings for christ , and endeavour to be followers of them in all things wherein they were followers of christ ; and hope to come to be made partakers with them of that glory and joy which they are entred into . is this the doctrine of the council of trent , or of the harmony of confessions ? doth this represent the practice of papists , or protestants ? it is very seldom , you shall hear a sermon of a protestant , wherein the example of one saint or other , is not in one thing or other , insisted on , and proposed to imitation . if this venerable esteem , and sedulous imitation of saints , with praysing god , for his graces in them , his mercy towards them , and an endeavour to obtain the crown they have received , be the doctrine , and the whole doctrine of the church of rome about the saints departed , why should we contend any longer ? all parties are agreed . let us contend no more about that which is not ; but if it be otherwise , and that neither are these things , all the things that the papists assert and maintain in this matter , nor are these things at all opposed by the protestants , a man may easily understand , to what end our author makes a flourish with three or four leaves of his book ; as though they were in difference between us . such artifices will neither advantage his cause , nor his person with sober knowing men . as to his whole discourse then , i shall only let him know , that protestants are unconcerned in it . they bear all due reverence to the saints departed this life , and strive to follow them in their course ; although i must add also , that their example is very remote from being the chiefest incentive , or rule unto , and in , the practice of un●versal obedience . the example of christ himself , and the revealed will of god , in his word , are their rule and guide ; in attendance whereunto thousands amongst them ( be it spoken to the praise of his glorious grace ) do instantly serve god in all good conscience day and night , and holding the head , grow up into him , who is the fulness of him that filleth all in all . to close this discourse , and to come to that , which he seems to love as a bear doth the stake ; the practice of the romish church , in the invocation and adoration of saints ; he tells us , to usher it in , two prety stories out of antiquity : the first , of the jews ; and last , of the pagans . . for the jews ; that they accused the christians ▪ before the roman emperours for three things : that they had changed the sabbath , that they worshipped images of the saints , that they brought in a strange god named jesus christ. what if they did so ? was all true , that the jews accused the christians of ? besides , what is here about the invocation of saints ? somewhat indeed we have about pictures and images , which , it seems , are contrary to the judaical law ; not a word do we meet with about their invocation of saints . but indeed this is a prety midnight story , to be told , to bring children asleep ; as though the jews durst accuse the christians before pagans , for having images and pictures , when the pagans were ready every day to destroy those jews , because they would have none ? a likely matter they would admit of their complaint against them that had them , or that the jews had no more wit then to disadvantage themselves in their contest by such a complaint ? besides , the whole insinuation is false ▪ neither did the jews so accuse them ; nor had the christians admitted any religious use of pictures or images in those days . and this their defence to the accusation of the pagans , that they rejected all images , makes as evident as if it were written by the sun-beams to this day . being charged by the pagans with an image-less religion , they every-where acknowledge it , giving their reason why they neither did , nor could admit of a religious use of any image at all . i presume , our author knows this to be so , and i know , if he do not , he is a very unfit person to talk of antiquity . of the like nature is the story which he tels us of the things the pagans laughed at the christians for . amongst these was the worship of an asses-head , which shews , saith he , the use and respect they had for images . for the jews had defamed our lord jesus christ , whose head and half-pourtraict christians used upon their altars , even as they do at this day , amongst other things of his great simplicity and ignorance . so use men to talk , who either know not , or care not , what to say . i would gladly impute this story of the asses-head , and the jews accusation , to our author's simplicity and ignorance ; because , if i do not so , i shall be compelled to do it unto somewhat in him of a worse name ; and yet that by-insinuation of the use of the head and half-portrait of our saviour upon altars by the old christians , before constantine's dayes of whom he speaks , will not allow me to lay all the misadventure of this tale upon ignorance . surely , he cannot but know , that what he suggests , is most notoriously false , and that he cannot produce one authentick testimony , no not one , of any such thing ; whereas innumerable lay expresly against it , almost in all the reserved writings of those dayes . for the story of the asses-head ; seeing , it seems he knows not what i thought ever puny-scholar to be acquainted with , i hope , he will give me leave to inform him , that it was an imputation layed upon the jews , not the christians , and that the christians were no otherwise concerned in the fable , but as they were at any time mistaken to be jews . the figment was inverted , long before the name of christians was known in the world , and divulged before and after , by as great wits as any were in the world , as appian , tacitus , trogus , and others . the whole rumour arising from their worshipping a golden calf in the wilderness , and afterwards his imitation progeny at dan and bethel . the confutation of the lye by josephus , is known to all learned men ; who tells appian , that if he had not had the head of an ass , and the face of a dogg , he would never have given credit unto , or divulged , so loud a lye . little countenance therefore is our author like to obtain from this lowd lye , invented against the jews , to prove the worshipping of pictures and images among christians ; nor is that his business in hand , if he be pleased to remember himself , but the invocation of saints , which now at length he is resolved ( but i see unwillingly ) to speak unto . had he intended plain dealing , and to perswade men by reason and arguments , he should nakedly and openly have laid down the doctrine and practise of his church in this matter , and have attempted to justifie the one and the other . this had been done like a man who liked and approved what his interest forced him to defend ; and upon honest principles sought to draw others to share with him in their worth and excellency . but he takes quite another course , and bends his design to cover his ware , and to hood-wink his chapmen , so to strike up a blind bargain between them . two things he knows , that in the doctrine of his church about the veneration of saints , protestants are offended at . . that we ought religiously to invocate and call upon , pray unto them , flying unto them for help and assistance ; which are the very words of the trent-council , the avowed doctrine of his church , which whosoever believes not is cursed . . that we may plead for acceptance , grace and mercy with god , for their merits and works , which our author gilds over , but cannot deny . if he will plainly undertake the defence of either of these , and indeavour to vindicate the first from superstition and the latter from being highly derogatory , to the mediation of christ , both , or either , to have been known or practised in the first churches , he shall be attended unto . to tell us fine stories , and to compare their invocation of saints , to the psalmists apostrophe's unto the works of the creation to set forth the praise of the lord , which they do in what they are , without doing more , and to deny direct praying unto them ; is but to abuse himself , his church , his reader , and the truth ; and to proclaim to all , that he is indeed ashamed of the doctrine which he owns , because it is not good or honest , as the orator charged epicurus . in the practice of his church , very many are the things which the protestants are offended with . their canonization framed perfectly after the manner of the old heathen apotheosis ; their exalting men into the throne of religious worship , some of a dubious existence , others of a more dubious saintship ; their dedication of churches , altars , shrines , dayes to them . their composing multitudes of prayers for their people to be repeated by them : their divulging faigned , ludicrous , ridiculous legends of their lives to the dishonour of god , the gospel , the saints themselves , with innumerable other things of the like nature , which our author knoweth full well to be commonly practised and allowed in his church . these are the things that he ought to defend and make good their station , if he would invite others to a fellowship and communion with him . instead of this , he tells us , that his catholicks do not invocate saints directly ; when i shall undertake ( what he knows can be performed ) , to give him a book bigger then this of his , of prayers allowed by his church , and practised by his catholicks , made unto saints directly , for help , assistance , yea grace , mercy , and heaven , or desiring those things for their merit , and upon their account ; which as i shewed are the two main parts of their doctrine condemned by protestants . i can quickly send him bonaventure's psalter , prayers out of the course of hours of the blessed virgin , our ladies antiphonies of her sorrows , her seven corporeal joys , her seven heavenly joyes , out of her rosary . prayers to st. paul , st. james , thomas , panoratius , george , blase , christopher , who not ? all made directly to them , and that for mercies spiritual and temporal ; and tel him how many years of indulgences , yea thousands of years , his popes have granted to the saying of some of the like stamp ; and all these not out of musty legends , and the devotion of private monks and fryers ; but the authentick instruments of his churches worship and prayers . let our author try whether he can justifie any of these opinions or practices , from the words of the lord in jeremy , though moses and samuel should stand before me , yet is not my soul unto this people , declaring , his determinate counsel for their destruction , not to be averted by moses or samuel , were they alive again , who in their dayes had stood in the gap and turned away his wrath , that his whole displeasure should not arise ; or from the words of moses , praying the lord to remem●er abraham , isaac , and jacob his servants ; which he immediately expounds , as they are also in a hundred other places by remembring his covenant made with them , and the oath he sware unto them ; these are pitiful poor pillars to support so vast and tottering a superstruction . and yet they are all that our author can get to give any countenance to him in his work , which indeed is none at all . neither do we charge the romanists , with the particular fancies of their doctors , their speculum trinitatis , and the like ; no , nor yet with the grosser part of the people's practise , in constituting their saints in special presidentships , one over hoggs , another over sheep , another over cows and cocks , like the ruder sort of the antient heathen , which we know our author would soon disavow ; but the known doctrine and approved practice of his whole church , he must openly defend , or be silent in this cause hereafter . this mincing of the matter by praying saints , not praying to them , praying to them indirectly not directly ; praying them , as david calls on sun , moon , and stars to praise the lord , so praying to them , as it is to no purpose , whether they hear us or no , is inconsistent with the doctrine and practise of his own church to which he seemeth to draw men , and not to any private opinion of his own . and a wise piece of business it is indeed , that our author would perswade us , that we may as well pray to saints in the roman-mode , as paul desired the saints that were then alive to pray for him . we know , it is the duty of living saints to pray for one another ; we know a certain way to excite them to the performance of that duty in reference unto us ; we have rule , president , and command in the scripture to do so , the requests we make to them are no elicite acts of religion ; we pray to them neither directly nor indirectly ; but desire them by vertue of our communion with them , to assist us in their prayers , as we might ask an alms , or any other good turn at their hands . i wonder wise men are not ashamed thus to dally with their own and others eternal concernments . after all this , at one breath he blows away all the protestants as childish ( just as pyrgopolenices did the legions of his enemies ) they are all childish ; let him shew himself a man , and take up any one of them as they are managed by any one learned man of the church of england , and answer it if he can . if he cannot , this boasting will little avail him with considering men . i cannot close this paragraph without marking one passage toward the close of it . laying down three principles of the saints invocation , whereof the first it self is true , but nothing to his purpose ; the second is true , in the substance of it , but false in an addition of merit , to the good works of the saints , and not one jot more to his purpose then the other ; the third is , that god cannot dislike the reflexions of his divine nature diffused in the saints out of the fulness of his beloved son , when any makes use of them the easier to find mercy in his sight . these are good words ; and make a very handsome sound . wilt thou reader know the meaning of them , and withall discern how thy pretended teacher hath colluded with thee in this whole discourse ? the plain english of them is this . god cannot but approve our pleading the merits of the saints for our obtaining mercy with him . a proposition as destructive to the whole tenour of the gospel and mediation of jesus christ , as in so few words could well be stamped and divulged . chap. xxi . purgatory . sect . . we are at length come to purgatory , which is the pope's indies ; his subterranean treasure-house , on the revenues whereof he maintains a hundred thousand fighting men , so that it is not probable , he will ever be easily dispossessed of it . this is the only root of dirge , though our author flourishes , as though it would grow on other stocks . it is their prayer for the dead , which he so entitles , and in the excellency of their devotion in this particular he is so confident , that he deals with us as the orator told q. caecilius , hortensius would with him , in the case of verres , bid him take his option and make his choice of what he pleased , and it should all turn to his disadvantage ; hortensius by his eloquence would make any thing that he should fixe on , turn to his own end . he bids us on the matter , chuse whether to think the souls they pray for , to be in heaven , hell , or purgatory ; all is one , he will prove praying for them to be good and lawful . suppose they be in heaven , what then ? what then ? may we not as well pray for them , as for sanctifying the name of god , which will be done whether we pray or no. suppose they are in hell ; yet we know it not , and so may shew our charity towards them ; but suppose they be in purgatory , it is the only course we can take to help them . [ of purgatory we shall speak anon . ] if there be no other receptacle for saints departed , but heaven and hell , it is but a flourish of our author , to perswade us , that prayers for them in the roman-mode , would be either useful or acceptable to god. suppose them you pray for , to be in hell ; the best you can make of your prayers , is but a vain babling against the will and righteousness of god ; an unreasonable troubling of the judge after he hath pronounced his sentence . yea , but you do not know them to be in hell , then neither do you suppose them to be there ; which yet is the case you undertake to make good ; suppose they be in hell , yet it s well done to pray for them , and to say they may not be there , is to suppose they are not in hell , not to suppose they are ; unless you will say , suppose they are not in hell , you may pray for them , suppose they are in hell ; hereunto doth this subtilty bring us . but it is not the will of god , that you should pray for any in hell ; no not for any in heaven , unless it be the will of god , that you should oppose his will in the one , and exercise you selves in things needless and unprofitable in the other ; both which are far enough from his mind , and that word , which i believe , at last , will be found , the only true and infallible rule of worship and devotion . when we pray for the sanctifying of god's name , the coming of his kingdom , the doing of his will , we still pray for the continuance of that which is as to outward manifestation , in an alterable condition ; for the name of god may be more or less sanctified in the world ; and for that which is future . but , to pray for them that are in heaven , is to pray for that for them , which they are in the unalterable enjoyment of : and besides , to do and practise that in the worship of god , which we have no precept , no precedent , no rule , no encouragement for , in the scripture ; nor the approved examples of any holy men from the foundation of the world . whatever charity there can be in such prayers , i am sure , faith there can be none , seeing there is neither precept for them , nor promise of hearing them . but it is purgatory that must bear the the weight of this duty . this , saith our author need not to be so condemned , being taught by pagans and antient rabbies , and so came down from adam by a popular tradition through all nations , a great many of whose names are reckoned up by him , declaring by the way , which of them came from shem , which from ham , which from japhet , to whom the hebrews are most learnedly assigned . for the pagans , virgil , cicero , and lucretius , are quoted , as giving testimony to them . this testimony is true ; in the first especially lies the whole doctrine of purgatory . some platonick philosophers , whom he followed , have been the inventers of it . that some of the pagans invented a purgatory , and that roman-catholicks have borrowed their seat for their own turn , is granted . what our author can prove more by this argument , i know not . the names of the old hebrew rabbins that had taught , or did believe it , he was pleased to spare ; and i know his reason well enough , though he is not pleased to tell us . and it is only this , that there are no such old rabbins , nor ever were in the world ; nor was purgatory ever in the creed of the judaical church , nor of any of the antient rabbins . indeed here and there one of them seemed to have dreamed , with origen , about an end of the pains of gehenna ; and some of the latter masters , the cabbalists especially , have espoused the pythagorean metempsychosis ; but for the purgatory of the pagans and papists , they know nothing of it . on these testimonies he tells us , that this opinion of the soul's immortality , and its detention after death in some place citra coelum , is not any new thing freshly taught , either by our saviour or his apostles , as any peculiar doctrin of his own , but taken up as granted by the tradition of the hebrews , and supposed , and admitted by all sides as true , upon which our lord built much of his institutions . gallantly ventured however ! i confess , a man shall seldom meet with pretier shuffling . purgatory , it seems , is the doctrine of the soul's immortality , and detention in some place citra coelum : who would ever have once dreamed of this , had not our author informed him ? this it is to be learned in the roman mysterie ; the doctrine of purgatory , is the doctrine of the soul's immortality ; never was doctrine so foully mistaken as that hath been ; but if it be not , yet it is of the detention of the souls in some place citra coelum : it is indeed ; but yet our author knows , that in these words , as bad , if not a worse fraud than under the other is couched . it was the opinion of many of the antients , that the souls of the saints that departed under the old testament , enjoyed not the blessed presence of god , but were kept in a place of rest until the ascension of christ. and this our author would have us to think , is the doctrine of purgatory ; he himself , i hope , enjoyes the contentment of believing the contrary . but he tells us , that our blessed saviour and his apostles were not the first that taught this doctrine , that is , of purgatory . as though they had taught it at all , or had not taught that which is inconsistent with it , and destructive of it , which is notorious that they have ! and for the traditions of the hebrew church ; as that was none of them , so i believe , our author knows but little what were . but he takes a great deal of pains to prove , though very unsuccessfully , that the jews did believe , that the souls of those that departed before the resurrection of the messias , did not enter heaven ; as though that was any thing to his purpose in hand ; but he is , as i said , marvellous unsucessful in that attempt also . the parable of lazarus and the rich man , prove only that lazarus's soul was in abraham's bosom ; that abraham's bosom was not in heaven , it doth not prove . peter , in the second of the asts , proves no more , than that the whole person of david , body and soul , was not ascended into heaven ; the not ascending of his soul alone , being nothing to his purpose . but what he cannot evince by testimonies , we will win by dint of arguments . the jews , saith he , could not believe what god had never promised ; but heavenly bliss was none of the promises of moses 's law nor were they ever put in hope of it , for any good work that they should do . it seems then , that which was promised them in moses's law , was eternal life in some place citra coelum , or citra culum , until the coming of the messias ; for this he would fain prove that they believed , and that rightly . this i confess , is a rare notion : and i know not whether it be do fide , or no ; but this i am sure , that it is the first time that ever i heard of it , though i have been a little conversant with some of his great masters . but the truth is , our author hath very ill success for the most part , when he talks of the jews ; as most men have , when they talk of what they do not understand . eternal life , and everlasting reward , the enjoyment of god in bliss , was promised no less truly in the old testament , then under the new , though less clearly ; and our author grants it , by confessing that the estate of the saints in rest extra coelum , to be admitted thither upon the entrance made into it by the messias , was promised to them , and believed by them , though any such promise made to them , or any such belief of them , as should give us the specification of the reward they expected , he is not able to produce . the promise of heaven is made clear under the new testament , yet not so , he tell us , but that in the execution of this promise , it is sufficiently insinuated , that if any spirit issue out of his body , not absolutely purified , himself may indeed by the use of such means of grace , as our lord instituted , be saved , yet so as by fire , cor. . i think , i know well enough what he aims at ; but the sense of his words i do not so well understand . suppose a spirit so to issue forth as he talks ? seeing we must not believe , that the blood of jesus purges us from all our sins ; who , or what is it then that he means by himself ? is it the spirit after it is departed ? or is it the person before its departure ? if the latter , to what end is the issuing forth of the spirit mentioned ? and what is here for purgatory , seeing the person is to be saved by the means of grace appointed by christ ? if the former ; as the expression is uncouth , so i desire to know , whether purgatory be an instituted means of grace or no ? and , whether it was believed so by virgil , or is by any of the more learned romanists ? i think it my duty a little to retain my reader in this stumbling passage . our author having a mind to beg some countenance for purgatory from cor. . and knowing full well , that there is not one word spoken there , about the spirits of men departed , but of their trials in this life , was forced to confound that living , and dead , means of grace , and punishment , things present , and to come , that somewhat might seem to look towards purgatory , though he knew not what . nor doth he find any better shelter , for his poor purgatory turned naked out of doors , throughout the whole scripture , as injurious to the grace of god , the mediation of christ , the tenor of the covenant of grace , and contrary to express testimonies ; in those words of our saviour , mat. . who speaking of sinners , dying in an unreconciled condition , having made no peace or agreement with god , says , that being delivered into prison , they should not go forth , untill they had paid the utmost farthing . for as the persons , whom he parabolically sets forth , are such as die in an absolute estate of enmity with god ; which kind of persons , as i take it , roman-catholicks do not believe to go to purgatory ; so , i think , it is certain , that those enemies of god , who are , or shall be , cast into hell , shall not depart untill they have paid the uttermost farthing ; and , that the expression , untill , doth in scripture alwayes denote a limitation of time to exspire , and the accomplishment afterward of what is denyed before ; i suppose , nay , i know , he will not say . so that their lying in prison untill they pay the uttermost farthing of their debts ( which is not gods way of dealing with them whom he washes and pardons in the bloud of christ , who are not able to pay one farthing of them ) is their lying there to eternity . and so also the sins of which it is said , they shall not be forgiven in this world , nor in the world to come , in one gospel ; it s said , in another , that they shall never be forgiven ; that is , not really forgiven here , nor declared , or manifested to be forgiven hereafter . besides , methinks this should make very little for purgatory , however the words should be interpreted ; for they are a great aggravation of the sins spoken of , as the highest and most mortal that men may contract the guilt of , that can be pardoned , if they can be pardoned . that the remission of such sins may be looked for in purgatory , as yet we are not taught : nay , our own author tells us , that mortal sins must be remitted , before a man can be admitted into purgatory ; so that certainly there is not a more useless text in the bible to his present purpose then this is , though they be all useless enough in all conscience . but here a matter falls across his thoughts , that doth not a little trouble him ; and it is this , that st. paul , in his epistles , never makes use of purgatory , directly at least as a topick-place , either in his exhortations to virtue , or disswasions from vice ; and i promise you , it is a shrewd objection . it cannot but seem strange , that st. paul should make no use of it ; and his church make use almost of nothing else . little , surely , did st. paul think , how many monasteries and abbies this purgatory would found ; how many moncks and fryers it would maintain ; what revenue it would bring into the church , that he passeth it by so slightly ; but st. paul's business was to perswade men to virtue , and dehort them from vice . and he informs us , that there is such a contemperation of heat and cold in purgatory , such an equal ballance between pains and hopes , good and evill , that it is not very meet to be made a topick for these ends and purposes ; that is that indeed that is of no use in religion . the trouble and comfort of it , are , by a due mixture , so allaid , as to their proper qualities , that they can have no operation upon the minds of men , to sway them one way or other . had some of our forefathers been so far illuminated , all things had not been at the state wherein they are at this day in the papacy ; but , it may be , much more is not to be expected from it , and therefore it may now otherwise be treated than it was yerst-while , when it was made the sum and substance of religion . however , the time will come , when this platonical signet that hath no colour from scripture , but is opposite to the clear testimonies of it ; repugnant to the grace , truth , and mercy of god ; destructive to the mediation of christ ; useless to the souls of men , serving only to beget false fears in some few , but desperate presumptions , from the thoughts of an after-reserve , and second venture after this life is ended ; in the most , abused to innumerable other superstitions , utterly unknown to the first churches , and the orthodox bishops of them , having by various means and degrees crept into the roman-church , ( which shall be laid open , if called for ) shall be utterly exterminated out of the confines and limits of the church of god. in the mean time , i heartily beg of our romanists , that they would no more endeavour to cast men into real scorching consuming fire , for refusing to believe that which is only imaginary and phantastical . chap. xxii . pope . sect . . it is not because the pope is forgotten all this while , that he is there placed in the rear , after images , saints , and purgatory . it is plain , that he hath been born in mind all along ; yea , and so much mentioned , that a man would wonder , how he comes to have a special . paragraph here alloted to him . the whole book seems to be all-pope , from the very beginning , as to the main design of it ; and now to meet , pope , by himself again , in the end , is somewhat unexpected . but , i suppose , our author thinks he can never say enough of him . therefore lest any thing fit to be insisted on , should have escaped him in his former discourses , he hath designed this section , to gather up the paralipomena , or ornaments he had forgotten before to set him forth withall . and indeed , if the pope be the man he talks of in this section , i must acknowledge he hath had much wrong done him in the world . he is one , it seems , that we are beholding unto for all we have that is worth any thing ; particularly for the gospel which was originally from him ; for kingly authority , and his crown land with all the honour and power in the kingdom ; one , that we had not had any thing left us , at this day , either of truth or unity , humanely speaking , had not he been set over us . one , in whom christ hath no lesse shewen his divinity and power , than in himself ; in whom he is more miraculous , then he was in his own person . one that by the only authority of his place and person , defended christ's being god against all the world ; without which , humanely speaking , christ had not been taken for any such person as he is believed this day . so as not only we , but christ himself is beholding to him , that any body believes him to be god. now truly , if things stand thus with him , i think it is hightime for us to leave our protestancy , and to betake our selves to the irish mans creed , that if christ had not been christ when he was christ , st. patrick ( the pope ) would have been christ. nay , as he is , having the hard fate to come into the world , so many ages after the ascension of christ into heaven , i know not what is left for christ to be , or do . the scripture tells us , that the gospel is christ's , originally from him ; now we are told , it is the popes , originally from him ; that , informes us that by him , ( the wisdom of god ) kings reign , and princes execute judgement ; now we are taught , that kingly authority , with his crown-land , is from the pope . that instructs us , to expect the preservation of faith and truth , in the world , from christ alone ; the establishment of his throne and kingdom for ever and ever ▪ his building , guidance , and protection of his church : but , we are now taught , that for all these things we are beholding to the pope , who , by his only authority , keeps up the faith of the deity of christ ; who surely is much ingaged to him , that he takes it not to himself . besides , what he is , for our better information , that we may judge aright concerning him , we may consider also what he doth ; and hath been doing , it seems , a long time ; he is one that hath never been known to let fall the least word of passion against any , nor move any engine for revenge ; one whose whole life , and study is , to defend innocence , &c. that by his general councels , all held under , and by him ; especially that of nice , hath done more good than can be expressed ; careful , and more than humanely happy , in all ages , in reconciling christian princes , &c. one who let men talk what they will , if he be not an unerring guide in matters of religion and faith , all is lost . but how shall we come to know , and be assured of all this ? other men , as our author knows and complains , speak other things of him ; is it meet , that in so doubtful and questionable a business , and of so great importance to be known , we should believe a stranger upon his word , and that against the vehement affirmations at least , of so many to the contrary : the scripture speaks never a word that we can find of him , nor once mentions him at all . the antient stories of the church are utterly silent of him , as for any such person as he is here described , speaking of the bishop of rome , as of other bishops in those dayes many of the stories of after-ages give us quite another character of him both as to his personal qualifications and imployment . i mean , of the greatest part of the series of men going under that name . in stead of peace-making and reconciliation , they tell us of fierce and cruel warrs , stirred up and mannaged by them ; of the ruine of kings , and kingdoms , by their means : and instead of the meekness pretended , their breathing out threatnings against men that adore them not ; persecuting them with fire and sword , to the utter depopulation of some countreys , and the defiling of the most of europe with bloudy cruelties . what course shall we take in the contest of assertions , that we may be able to make a right judgment concerning him ? i know no better than this , a little to examine apart the particulars of his excellency as they are given us by our author , especially the most eminent of them ; and weigh whether they are given in according to truth or no. the first that we mentioned was , that the gospel was originally from him , and to him we are beholding for it . this we cannot readily receive ; it is certainly untrue , and fearfully blasphemous to boot . the gospel was originally from christ ; and to him alone are we beholding for it , as hath been before declared . another is , that kingly authority amongst us , and his crown-land is from him . this is false and seditious . kingly authority in general is from god , and by his providence was it established in this land , before the pope had any thing to do here ; nor doth it lean in the least on his warranty , but hath been supported without the papacy , and against all its oppositions , which have not been a few . a third is , that , humanely speaking , had not he been set over us , we had not had this day either truth or unity . i know not well , what you mean by , humanely speaking ; but i am sure , so to blaspheme the care and love of christ to his church , and the sufficiency of his word and promised spirit to preserve truth in the world , without the pope , whose aid in this work he never once thought of , requested appointed , is , if not inhumane and barbarous , yet bold and presumptuous . that christ hath no less shewed his divinity in him then in his own person , is an expression of the same nature , or of a more dreadful , if possible it may be . i speak seriously , i do not think this is the way to make men in love with the pope . no sooner is such a word spoken , but immediately the wicked beastial lives , the ignorance , atheisms , and horrid ends of many of them , present themselves to the thoughts of men , and a tremor comes over their hearts , to hear men open their mouths with such blasphemies , as to affirm , that the lord christ did as much manifest his divinity and power in such beasts , as in his own person . yea , that he is more miraculous in him , then he was in himself : what proof , sir , is there of this ? where is the scripture , where the antiquity , where the reason for it ? we tell you truly , we cannot believe such monstrous figments upon their bare affirmation . yea , but this is not all , christ is beholding to him for all the faith of his deity that is in the world ; why so ? why , by the only authority of his place and person , he defended it . when ? when it was opposed by the arrians , and he called his council of nice , where he condemned them . who would not be sick of such trifles ? is it possible that any man in his right wits should talk at such a rate ? consult the writings of those dayes , of alexander of alexandria , of athanasius , gregory , basil , chrysostom , austine , who not ? go over the volumes of the councils of those dayes ; if he can once find the authority of the pope of rome , and his person , pleaded as the pillar of the faith of christs diety , or as any argument for the proof of it , let him triumph in his discovery . vain man that dares to make these flourishes , when he knows how those antient christian hero's , of those dayes , mightily proved the deity of christ from the scriptures , and confounded their adversaries with their testimonies , both in their councils , disputes , and writings , which remain to this day ; was not the scripture accounted , and pleaded by them all as the bulwark of this truth ? and did not some of them , athanasius for instance , do and suffer for the maintaining of it , more then all the bishops of rome in those dayes , or since ? and , what a triffling is it to tell us of the popes council at nice ? as though we did not know who called that council , who praesided in it , who bare the weight of the business of it , of whom none were popes , nor any sent by popes ; nay , as if we did not know , that there was then no such pope in the world , as he about whom we contend . indeed it is not candid and ingenious for a man to talk of these things in this manner . the like must be said of the six first councils mentioned by him ; in some of which the power of the bishop of rome was expresly limitted , as in that of nice , and that of chalcedon , and in the others ; though he was ready enough to pretend to more , yet he had no more power then the bishops of other cities , that had a mind to be called patriarcks . we do not then , as yet , see any reason to change our former thoughts of the pope , for any thing here offered by our author ; and we cannot but be farr enough from taking up his , if they be those which he hath in this discourse expressed , they being all of them erroneous , the most of them blasphemous . but yet , if we are not pleased with what he is , we may be pleased with what he does ; being so excellent a well accomplished person as he is ; for he is one that was never known to let fall a word of passion . that , for casting off his authority should procure thousands to be slain , and burned , without stirring up any engine of revenge , these are somewhat strange stories . our author grievously complains of uncivil carriage toward the pope in england in all sorts , men , women , and children . for my part , i justifie no reviling accusation in any , against any whatever ; but yet , i must tell him , that if he thinks to reclaim men from their hard thoughts of him , ( that is , not of the person of this or that pope , but of the office as by them managed ) it must not be by telling him , he is a fine accomplisht gentleman , that he is a prince , a stranger , a great way off , whom it is uncivil and unmannerly to speak so hardly of : but labour to shew , that it is not his principle to impose upon the consciences of men , his apprehensions in the things of god ; that he is not the great proclaimer of many false opinions , heresies , and superstitions , and that with a pretence of an authority , to make them receive them whether they will or no ; that he hath not caused many of their forefathers to be burned to death , for not submitting to his dictates , nor would do so to them , had he them once absolutely in his power ; that he hath never given away this kingdom to strangers , and cursed the lawful princes of it ; that he pleads not a soveraignty over them , and their governors , inconsistent with the laws of god and the land : haec , cedo , ●dmoveant templis , & farre litabo . for whilst the greatest part of men amongst us , do look upon him as the antichrist foretold in the scripture , guilty of the bloud of innumerable martyrs , and witnesses of the truth of christ ; others who think not so hardly of him , yet confess he is so like him , that by the marks given of antichrist , he is the likeliest person on the earth , to be apprehended on suspition ; all of them think , that if he could get them into his power , which he endeavours continually , he would burn them to ashes ; and that , in the mean time , he is the corrupt fountain and spring of all the false worship , superstition , and idolatry , wherewith the faces of many churches are defiled . to suppose he can perswade thē to any better respect of him than they have , by telling them how fine a gallant gentleman he is , and what a great way off from them , and the like stories , is to suppose , that he is to deal with fools and children . for my own part , i approve no man's cursing or reviling of him ; let that work be left to himself alone for me : i desire , men would pray for him , that god would convert him , and all his other enemies to the truth of the gospel ; and in the mean time to deliver all his from their policy , rage , and fury . we may easily gather what is to be thought of the other encomiums given to him by our author , by what hath been observed concerning those we have passed through ; as that his whole life and study is to defend innocency , &c. it must needs be granted , that he hath taken some little time to provide for himself in the world ▪ he had surely never arrived else to that degree of excellency , as to tread on the necks of emperours , to have kings hold his stirr up , to kick off their crowns , to exceed the rulers of the earth in worldly pomp , state , and treasures , which came not to him by inheritance from st. peter ; and whether he hath been such a defender of innocency and innocents , the day wherein god shall make inquisition for blood , will manifest . the great work he hath done by his general councils , a summary of which is given us by our author , is next pretended . all this was done by him , yea , all that good that was ever done by general councils in the world was done by him ; for they were all his councils , and that which was not his , is none . i shall only mind our author of what was said of old , unto one talking at that rate that he is pleased here to do : labore alieno magnam partam gloriam verbis saepe in se transmovet , qui habet salem qui in te est . all the glory and renown of the old antient councils , all their labours for the extirpation of heresies , and errours , and the success that their honest endeavours were blessed withal , with the seasoning of one little word , [ his ] are turned over to the pope . they were his councils ; a thing they never once dreamed of ; nor any mortal man in the dayes wherein they were celebrated . convened they were in the name , and upon the institution of christ , and so were [ h●s ] councils ; were called together , as to their solemn external convention , by the emperors of those days , and so were , not their councels , but councils held by their authority , as to all the external concernments of them . this the councils themselves did acknowledge ; and so did the bishops of rome in those days , when they joyned their petitions with others unto the emperors , for the convening of them ; and seldom it was , that they could obtain their meetings in any place they desired ; though they were many of them wise at an after game , and turned their remoteness from them into their advantage . as they were called by the emperors , so they were composed of bishops , and others , with equal suffrages . how they come to be the pope's councils , he himself only knows , and those to whom he is pleased to impart this secret , of other men not one . indeed some of them may be called his councils , if every thing is his , wherein he is any way concerned ; such was the first council of nice , as to his pretended jurisdiction ; such that of chalcedon , as to his primacy ; such were sundry famous conventions in asrick , wherein his pretentions unto authority , were excluded , and his unseemly frauds discovered . nay , there is not any thing upon the roll of antiquity of greater and more prodigious scandal , then the contests of popes in some african councils , for authority and jurisdiction . their claim was such , as that the good fathers assembled wrote unto them , that they would not introduce secular pride and ambition into the church of christ ; and the manner of managing their pretentions , was no other but down-right forgery , and that of no less then canons of the first memorable council of nic● ; which to discover , the honest african bishops were forced to send to constantinople , alexandria , and antioch , for authentick copies of those canons ; upon the receipt whereof , they mollified the forgery with much christian sobriety and prudence unto the bishop of rome himself , and enacted a decree for the future , to prevent his pretentions and claims . besides , as the good bishops averr , god himself testified against the irregular interposition of the pretended power of the bishop of rome ; for whilest they being synodically assembled , were detained and hindred in their procedure , by the romanists contests for superiority ; apiarius , the guilty person , being convinced in his conscience of his many notorious evils and crimes , from a just censure whereof , the roman interposition was used to shelter him , of his own accord cast himself at the feet of the assembly , confessing all his wickedness and folly . of the six first councils then there is no more reason to call them the pope's , or to ascribe their atchievments unto him , then there is to call them any other bishop's of any city then famous in the world . in that which he calls the seventh general council , indeed a coventicle of ignorant , tumultuous , superstitious iconolaters , condemned afterwards by a council held at frankfurt , by the the authority of charles the great , he stickled to some purpose for images , which then began to be his darlings ; and though we can afford that council to be his , for any concernment we have in it , yet the story of it will not allow us to do so ; it being neither convened nor ruled by his authority ; though the brutish monks in it ▪ were willing to shelter themselves under the splendor and lustre of his see. about those that follow , we will not much contend : it matters not whose they were , unless they had been better ; especially such as laid foundations for , and stirred up princes to shed the innocent blood of the martyrs of christ , to some of their perpetual ignominy , reproach , and ruin . but yet our author knows , or may know what long contests there have been , even in latter ages , whether the council should be the the pope's council , or the pope should should be the council's pope ; and how the pope carried it at last , by having more arch-bishopricks and bishopricks in his disposal than the councils had . and so much for the pope's councils . our author adds , that he hath been more than humanely happy in reconciling christian princes ; but yet i will venture a wager with him , that i will give more instances of his setting princes together by the ears , then he shall of reconciling them ; and i will manifest , that he hath got more by the first work , than the latter . let him begin the vye when he pleaseth ; if i live , and god will , i will try this matter with him before any competent judges ; tu dic mecum , quo pignore ? how else to end this matter , i know not . i see not then any ground my countrymen have to alter their thoughts concerning the pope , for any thing here tendred unto them by this author ; yea i know they have great reason to be confirmed in their former apprehensions concerning him . for all that truly honour the lord jesus christ , have reason to be moved ▪ when they hear another , if not preferred before him , nor set up in competition with him , yet openly invested with many of his priviledges and pre●ogatives ; especially considering , that not only the person of christ , but his word also is debased to make way to his exaltation and advancement . thence it is , that it is openly averred , that were it not for his infallibility , we should all this time have been at a loss for truth and unity . of so small esteem with some men , is the wisdom of christ , who left his word with his church for these ends , and his word its self . all is nothing without the pope . if i mistake not in the light and temper of my countrymen , this is not the way to gain their good opinion of him . had our author kept himself to the general terms of a good prince , an universal pastor , a careful guide ▪ and to general stories of his wisdom , ●a●e , and circumspection for publick good ▪ which discourse makes up what remains of this paragraph ; he might perhaps have got some ground on their affection and esteem , who know nothing concerning him to the contrary ; which in england are very few . but these notes above ela , these transcendent encomiums have qui●e marred his marker . and if there be no medium , but men must believe the pope to be either christ , or antichrist , it is evident which way the general vogue in england will go , and that at least until fire and faggot come ▪ which , blessed be god , we are secured from , whilest our present soveraign swayes the scepter of this land ; and hope , our posterity may be so , under his off-spring , for many generations . chap. xxiii . popery . sect . . our author hopes , it seems , that by this time he hath brought his disciples to popery ; that is the title of the last paragraph , to his business , not of his book ; for that which follows , being a parcel of the excellent speech of my lord chancellor , is about a matter wherein his concernment lies not : this is his close and farewell . they say , there is one , who , when he goes out of any place , leaves a worse favour at his departure , then he gave all the time of his abode ; and he seems here to be imitated . the disingenuity of this paragraph , the want of care , of truth , and of common honesty , that appears in it , sends forth a worse favour then most of those , if not than any , or all of them , that went before . the design of it , is to give us a parallel of some popish and protestant doctrines , that the beauty of the one may the better be set off by the deformity of the other . to this end he hath made no conscience of mangling , defacing , and defiling of the latter . the doctrines , he mentions , he calls the more plausible parts of popery . such as he hath laboured in his whole discourse to gild and ●rick up with his rhetorick , nor shall i quarrel with him for his doting on them : only , i cannot but wish , it might suffice him to enjoy and proclaim the beauty of his church , without open slandering and defaming of ours . this is not handsome , civil , mannerly , nor conscientious . a few instances will manifest , whether he hath fail'd in this kind or no. the first plausible piece of popery , as he calls it , that he presents us in his antithesis , is the obligation which all have who believe in christ to attend unto good works , and the merit and benefit of so doing ; in opposition whereunto he sayes protestants teach , that there be no such things as good works pleasing unto god ; but all be as menstruous raggs , filthy odious , and damnable in the sight of heaven ; that , if it were otherwise , yet they are not in our power to perform . let other men do what they please , or are able ; for my part , if this be a good work , to believe , that a man conscientiously handles the things of religion , with a reverence of god , and a regard to the account he is to make at the last day , who can thus openly calumniate , and equivocate ; i must confess , i do not find it in my power to perform it . it may be , he thinks it no great sin to calumniate and falsly accuse hereticks ; or , if it be , but a venial one . such a one as hath no respect to heaven or hell , but only purgatory , which hath no great influence on the minds of men to keep them from vice , or provoke them to vertue . do protestants teach , there are no such things as good works pleasing to god , or that those that believe , are not obliged to good works ? in which of their confessions do they so say ? in what publick writing of any of their churches ? what one individual protestant was ever guilty of thinking or venting this folly ? if our author had told this story in rome or italy , he had wronged himself only in point of morality ; but telling it in england , if i mistake not , he is utterly gone also as to reputatiō . but , yet you 'l say , that if there be good works , yet it is not in our power to perform them . no more will papists neither , that know what they say , or are in their right wits , that it is so , without the help of the grace of god ; and the protestant never lived , that i know of , that denyed them by that help and assistance to be in our power . but they say , they are all as filthy raggs , &c. i am glad he will acknowledg isaiah , to be a protestant , whose words they are concerning all our righteousness , that he traduceth ; we shall have him sometime or other denying some of the prophets , or apostles to be protestants ; and , yet it is known , that they all agreed in their doctrine and faith. those other protestants whom he labours principally to asperse , will tell him , that although god do indispensibly require good works of them that do believe , and they by the assistance of his grace do perform constantly those good works , which both for the matter , and the manner of their perforance are acceptable to him , in jesus christ , according to the tenor of the covenant of grace , and which , as the effect of his grace in us , shall be eternally rewarded ; yet , that such is the infinite purity and holiness of the great god with whom we have to do , in whose sight the heavens are not pure , and who charges his angels with folly , that , if he should deal with the best of our works , according to the exigence and rigour of his justice , they would appear wanting , defective , yea silthy , in his sight ; so , that our work● have need of acceptation in christ no less then our persons ; and they add this to their faith in this matter , that they believe , that those who deny this , know little of god or themselves . my pen is dull , and the book that was lent me for a few dayes is called for . ex hoc uno ; by this instance ; we may take a measure of al the rest wherein the same ingenuity and conscientious care of offending is observed , as in this ; that is , neither the one , or other , is so . the residue of his discourse is but a commendation of his religion , and the professors of it , whereof i must confess , i begin to grow weary ; having had so much of it , and so often repeated , and that from one of themselves , and that on principles which will not endure the tryal and examination : of this sort is the suffering for their religion , which he extols in them . not what god calls them unto , or others impose upon them in any part of the world ▪ wherein they are not to be compared with protestants , nor have suffered from all the world for their papal religion , the hundredth part of what protestants have suffered from themselves alone , for their refusal of it ; doth he intend ; but what of their own accord they undergo . not considering , that as outward affliction and persecution from the world , have been alwayes the constant lot of the true worshippers of christ in all ages ; so , voluntary ▪ self-macerations have attended the wayes of false-worship among all sorts of men from the foundation of the world . finis . a brief vindication of the non-conformists from the charge of schisme as it was managed against them in a sermon preached before the lord mayor by dr. stillingfleet, dean of st. pauls. owen, john, - . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing o estc r ocm this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) a brief vindication of the non-conformists from the charge of schisme as it was managed against them in a sermon preached before the lord mayor by dr. stillingfleet, dean of st. pauls. owen, john, - . p. printed for nathaniel ponder ..., london : . reproduction of original in the university of illinois (urbana-champaign campus). library. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng stillingfleet, edward, - . -- mischief of separation. dissenters, religious -- england. religious tolerance -- england. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - apex covantage keyed and coded from proquest page images - jonathan blaney sampled and proofread - jonathan blaney text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion a brief vindication of the non-conformists from the charge of schisme . as it was managed against them in a sermon preached before the lord mayor ; by dr. stillingfleet , dean of st. pauls . coitio christianorum meritò sane illicita , si illicitis par ; merilò damnanda , si quis de ea queritur eo titulo quo de factionibus querela est . in cujus perniciem aliquando convenimus ? hoc sumus congregati quod & dispersi ; hoc universi quod & singuli ; neminem laedentes , neminem contristantes ; quum probi , cum boni coeunt , cum pij , cum casti congregantur , non est factio dicenda , sed curia . tertul. london , printed for nathaniel ponder , at the sign of the peacock in the poultry , over against the stocks-market , . it was no small surprize unto many , first to hear of , and then to see in print the late sermon of the reverend deun of st. pauls preached at guildhall , may . . being the first sunday in easter term , before the lord mayor , &c. whatever there might be of truth in it , yet they judged the time both of the one and the other , the preaching and printing of it , to be somewhat unseasonable . for , they say , that this is a time wherein the agreement of all protestants , so far as they have attained , is made more than ordinarily necessary . and whereas the nonconformists do agree in religion with all the sober protestant people of the nation , which is the church of england , they do suppose that ordinary prudence would advise unto a forbearance of them in those few things wherein they dissent ; not indeed from the body of the protestant people , but from some that would impose them on their consciences and practices . who knows not that the present danger of this nation is from popery , and the endeavors that are used both to introduce it and enthrone it , or give it power and authority among us ? and it is no part of the popish design to take away and destroy those things wherein the nonconformists do dissent from the present ecclesiastical establishment , but rather to confirm them . their contrivance is to ruine and destroy the religion of the body of the protestants in this kingdom , wherein the nonconformists are one with them , and equally concerned with any of them . wherefore it cannot but be grievous unto them as well as useless unto the common interest of the protestant religion , that at such a time and season , they should be reflected on , charged and severely treated on the account of those lesser differences , which no way disenable them from being useful and serviceable unto the government and nation in the defence and preservation of the protestant religion . and that it is their resolution so to be , they have given sufficient evidence , equal at least with that given by any sort of people in the nation ; yea , of their diligence in opposition unto popery , and their readiness to observe the direction of the magistrates therein , whil'st the plot hath been in agitation ; they suppose the honourable person unto whom this sermon is dedicated , can and will bear them witness . in these circumstances , to be required severely to change their judgments and practices , as it were momento turbinis , immediately and in an instant ; or else to be looked on and treated as adversaries ; many do think as unseasonable , as to command a good part of an army when it is actually engaged against an enemy , to change all their order , postures , discipline and advantages , or immediately to depart out of the field . and they do withal suppose that such a sudden change is least of all to be expected to be wrought by such severe charges and reflections , as are made on all nonconformists in this discourse . such like things as these do men talk concerning the season of the preaching and publishing of this sermon : but in such things every man is to be left unto his own prudence , whereof he may not esteem himself obliged to give an account . for my part i judge it not so unseasonable as some others do . for it is well that honest men should understand the state of those things wherein they are greatly and deeply concerned . nonconformists might possibly suppose that the common danger of all protestants had reconciled the minds of the conforming ministry unto them , so as that they were more than formerly inclined unto their forbearance , and i was really of the same judgment my self . if it be not so , it is well they are fairly warned , what they have to expect , that they may prepare themselves to undergo it with patience . but we shall pass by these things , and attend a little unto the consideration of the sermon itself . the design of this discourse seems to consist in these three things , or to aim at them . ( ) to prove all the nonconformists to be guilty of schism , and a sinful separation from the church of england . ( ) to aggravate their supposed guilt and crime , both in its nature , and all the pernicious consequents of it that can be imagined . ( ) to charge them , especially their ministers , with want of sincerity and honesty , in the management of their dissent from the church of england , with reference unto the people that hear them . what there is of truth in these things , or what there may be of mistake in them , it is the duty of nonconformists to try and examine . but some few things must have a previous consideration , before we come to the merits of the cause itself . . the reverend author of this discourse affirms , that in the preaching of this sermon he was far from intending to stir up the magistrates and judges unto a persecution of dissenters , as some ill men have reported . epist. ded. without this information i confess i could not but judge it would have been as liable unto a supposition of such a design , as the actings of the nonconformists in the management of their cause are unto that of insincerity in the judgment of this reverend author . for , ( ) it was not preached unto nonconformists , perhaps not one of them present ; so that the intention of preaching it , could not be their conviction . they were not likely either to hear the charge , or the reasons of it . ( ) it was preached unto them , who were no way guilty of the pretended crime reproved ; but peculiarly such as were intrusted with the execution of the penal laws against them that were supposed guilty , magistrates and judges , which in another would have but an ill aspect . if a man should go unto a justice of the peace , and complain that his neighbor is a thief , or a swearer , or a murderer ; though he should give the justice never so many arguments to prove that his neighbour did very ill in being so and doing so , yet his business would seem to be the execution of the law upon him . but let the will of god be done , nonconformists are not much concerned in these things . we are likewise informed in the same epistle , that there are no sharp and provoking expressions on the persons of any . it is indeed beneath the gravity and dignity of this reverend author , to bring reviling or railing accusations against any ; neither will he , i am sure , give countenance to such a practice in others , which is seldom used but by men of very mean consideration . but i am not satisfied that he hath not used even great severity in reflections on a whole party of men , and that unprovoked : nor do i know how persons on a religious account can be more severely reflected on , and that not only as unto their opinions and practises , but also as unto the sincerity of their hearts , and honesty of their designs , than the nonconformists are in this sermon . i have seen a collection made of such reflections by the hand of a person of honour , a member of the church of england , with his judgment upon them ; wherein they appear to me not to be a true resemblance or representation of christian love and charity . . a great part of this discourse being such as became a popular auditory , consisting in generals on all hands acknowledged , as the good of union , the evil of schism , and causeless separation , &c. which will indifferently serve any party until it be determined where the original fault and mistake doth lie ; i shall not at all take notice of it , though it be so dress'd , as to be laid at the door of nonconformists in a readiness for an application unto their disadvantage : but nothing that by way of argument , testimony or instance is produced , to prove the charge mentioned , and the consequents of it , shall be omitted . . some few things may be taken notice of in the passage of the author unto his text ; of that nature is his complaint , p. . there is just cause for many sad reflections , when neither the miseries we have felt , nor the calamities we fear ; neither the terrible judgments of god upon us , nor the unexpected deliverance vouchsafed unto us , nor the common danger we are yet in , have abated mens heats , or allayed their passions , or made them more willing to unite with our established church and religion : but instead of that , some stand at a greater dastance , if not defiance . it is acknowledged willingly by us , that the warnings and calls of god unto this nation have been great and marvellous , and yet continue so to be . but it is worthy our enquiry , whether this be to be looked on as the onely end and design of them , that the nonconformists do immediately in all things comply with the established church and religion , and are evidences of god's displeasure because they do not so ; when he who searcheth their hearts , doth know that they would do it , were it not for fear of his displeasure ? what if it should be the design of god in them to call the nation and so the church of england unto repentance and reformation , which when all is done , is the onely way of reconciling all protestant dissenters ? what if god should in them testifie against all the atheism , profaness , sensuality , that abound in this nation , unto the publick scandal of it , with the dread and terror of those by whom they are duly considered , the persons guilty of them , being no way proceeded against by any discipline of the church , nor any reformation of the church itself from such horrible pollutions once attempted ? every man who knows any thing of christ , of his law , gospel , rule and discipline , of the nature , end , and use of them , with the worship of god to be performed in them and by them , and doth with consider the terror of the lord unto whom an account is to be given of these things , must acknowledge that both in persons and things there is a necessity of reformation among us , on the utmost perils of the displeasure of christ jesus ; yet no such reformation is so much as endeavoured in a due manner . it is no encouragement unto conscientious men , to unite themselves absolutely and in all things , unto such a church , as doth not , 〈…〉 , or as cannot reform itself , in such a degenerate state as that which many churches in the world are at this day openly and visibly fallen into . and to deal plainly with our brethren , ( if they will allow us to call them so ) that they may know what to expect , and , if it be the will of god , be directed into the onely true way of uniting all protestants , in the onely bands of evangelical union , order and communion , unless those who are concerned , will endeavor , and until they are enabled in some measure to effect a reformàtion in the ministry and people , as unto their relation to the church , as also in some things in the worship of god itself , it is vain to expect that the nonconformists should unite with the church , however established . and may we not think that those many warnings and calls of god , may have some respect unto these abominations that are found in the nation , yea , such as without a due reformation of them will issue in our desolation ? i do know that with the nonconformists also , there are sins against the lord their god ; and it will be a great addition unto their sins , as also an aggravation of their guilt , if they comply not with the warnings of god , as they are here expressed by this reverend author , so as to reform whatever is amiss in them , and return wholly unto god , from all their wandrings . but as unto those things which are usually charged on them , they are such as interest , hatred , and the desire of their ruine suggest unto the minds of their adversaries ; or are used by some against their science and conscience to further that end , without the least pretence to be raised from any thing in them , their opinions , practices , or conversation in the world . doth atheism abound among us ? it is from the differences in religion made by nonconformists . is there danger of popery ? it is because of the nonconformists . are the judgments of god coming on the nation ? it is for nonconformity . so was it of old with the christians ; si tybris ascendit in maenis , si nilus non ascendit in arva , si coelum stetit , si terra movit , si fames , si lues ; statim christianos ad leonem . . the immediate introduction unto the opening of his text , is an account of the differences and divisions that were in the primitive churches , occasioned by the judaizing christians , who contended for the observation of the ceremonies of the law ; but some things may be added unto his account , which are necessary unto the right stating of that case , as it may have any respect unto our present differences . and we may observe , ( ) that those with and concerning whom the apostle dealeth in his epistle , were principally those of the jewish church and nation , who had own'd the gospel , professed faith in christ jesus , had received ( many of them ) spiritual gifts , or tasted of the powers of the world to come , and did join in the worship of god , in the assemblies of the christians . i only mention this , because some places quoted usually in this matter , do relate directly unto the unbelieving jews , which went up and down to oppose the preaching of christ and the gospel in rage and fury , stirring up persecution everywhere against them that were employed in it . ( ) this sort of persons were freely allowed by the apostle to continue in the use of those rites and ceremonies which they esteemed themselves obliged unto by vertue of moses law , granting them in all other things the priviledge of believers , and such as wherein they would not in any thing offend : so do james , and the elders of the church declare themselves , acts . , &c. yea , ( ) out of tenderness unto them , and to prevent all offence to be taken by them at the liberty of the gentiles they did order that the believers of the gentiles , should forbear for a season the use of their natural liberty in some few things , whereby the other were , in their common meetings , as in eating and drinking together , usually scandalized ; giving them also unto the same end , direction concerning one thing evil in it self , whose long usage and practice among the gentiles had obliterated a sense of its guilt , wherewith they could not but be much offended . ( ) with this determination or state of things thus setled by the apostles , ( no doubt but that ) a multitude of the jewish believers did rest content and satisfied . but certain it is , that with many of them it was otherwise . they were no way pleased that they were left unto the freedom of their own judgment and practice , in the use and observance of the legal ceremonies , but they would impose the observation of them on all the churches of the gentiles wherever they came . nothing would serve their turn , but that all other churches must observe their ceremonies , or they would not admit them unto communion with them . and in the pursuit of this design , they prevailed for a season on whole churches , to forego the liberty wherein christ had made them free , and to take on them the yoke of bondage which they imposed on them , as it was with the churches of the galatians . i have mentioned these things only to shew how remote we are from any access unto those opinions and practises which caused the first divisions in christian churches , and among all sorts of believers . we agree with our brethren in the faith of the gospel , as the gentiles did with the believing jews ; we have nothing to impose in religion , on the consciences or practises of any other churches or persons ; we are not offended that others , be they many or few , should use their own choice , liberty and judgment , in the government , discipline , worship and ceremonies of pretended order , nor do envy them the advantages which they have thereby ; we desire nothing but what the churches of the gentiles desired of old , as the onely means to prevent division in them , namely , that they might not be imposed on to observe those things which they were not satisfied that it was the mind of christ they should observe ; for he had taken all the churches under his own power requiring that they should be taught to do and observe all that he commanded them , and nothing else that we know of . we desire no more of our governors , rulers , brethren ( if they think so ) in the ministry , but that we be not with outward force , and destructive penalties , compelled to comply with and practise in the worship of god , such things , as for our lives , and to save our selves from the greatest ruine , we cannot conceive that it is the mind of christ that we should do and observe ; that whil'st we are peaceable and useful in our places , firmly united unto the body of the protestants in this nation , ( which , as this author tells us , is the church of england ) in confession of the same faith , and common interest , for the maintenance and preservation of that one religion which we profess , we be not deprived of that liberty , which god and nature , christ and the gospel , the example of the primitive churches , and the present protestant interest of this nation do testifie to be our due . these things being premised , because i have no design to except against any thing in the discourse of the reverend author of this sermon , wherein the merit of the cause is not immediately concerned ; nor to seek for advantages from expressions ; nor to draw a sawe of contention about things not necessary unto that defence of our innocency which alone i have undertaken , ( as is the way of the most in the management of controversies ) i shall pass on unto the charge itself , or the consideration of the arguments and reasons , whereon all nonconformists are charged with schism , &c. but yet because there are some things insisted on by the author , in the progress of his discourse , according as he judged the method to be most convenient for the managing of his charge , which i judge not so convenient unto the present defence , i shall speak briefly unto them , or some of them , before i proceed unto what is more expresly argumentative . as , . he chargeth the nonconformist ministers , for concealing their opinions and judgments from the people , about the lawfulness of their communion with the church , and that for ends easily to be discerned , ( that is , their own advantage ; ) that is , they do indeed judge that it is lawful for the people to hold communion with the church of england , but will not let them know so much , lest they should forsake their ministry . pag. , . i do not intend to speak of the terms upon which persons are to be admitted among us to the exercise of the function of the ministry , but of the terms of lay-communion , i. e. those which are necessary for all persons to join in our prayers and sacraments , and other offices of divine worship . i will not say , there hath been a great deal of art to confound these two , ( and it is easie to discern to what purpose it is ; ) but i dare say the peoples not understanding the difference of these two cases , hath been a great occasion of the present separation . for in the judgment of some of the most impartial men of the dissenters it this day , although they think the case of the ●●●●sters very hard on the account of subscriptions and ●●●●rations required of them ; yet they confess very little 〈◊〉 be said on the behalf of the people , from whom none of those things are required . so that the people are condemned in their separation , by their own teachers ; but how they can preach lawfully to a people who commit a fault in hearing them , i do not understand . and the same thing is yet managed with more severity , pag. , . in words that i shall at large transenbe . i dare say , if most of the preachers at this day in the separate meetings were soberly asked their judgments , whether it were lawful for the people to join with us in the publick assemblies , they would not deny it , and yet the people that frequent them generally judge otherwise . for it is not to be supposed , that faction among them should so commonly prevail beyond interest ; and therefore if they thought it were lawful for them to comply with the laws , they would do it . but why then is this kept up as such a mighty secret in the breasts of their teachers ? why do they not preach to them in their congregations ? is it for fear they should have none left to preach to ? that is not to be imagined of mortified and conscientious men . is it lest they should seem to condemn themselves , whil'st they preach against separation in a separate congregation ? this , i confess , looks oddly , and the tenderness of a man's mind in such a case , may out of meer shamefacedness keep him from declaring a truth which flies in his face while he speaks it . is it that they fear the reproaches of the people ? which some few of the most eminent persons among them have found they must undergo , if they touch upon this subject , ( for i know not how it comes to pass , that the most godly people among them , can the least endure to be told of their faults . ) but is it not as plainly written by st. paul , if i yet serve men , i should not be the servant of christ ; as wo be unto me if i preach not the gospel ? if they therefore would acquit themselves like honest and conscientious men , let them tell the people plainly that they look on our churches as true churches , and that they may lawfully communicate with us in prayers and sacraments ; and i do not question but in time , if they find it lawful , they will judge it to be their duty . for it is the apostles command here , whereto we have already attained let us walk by the same rule , let us mind the same things . a crime this is which if true , is not easily to be expiated : nor can men give greater evidence of their own hypocrisie , insincerity , and government by corrupt ends and designs , than by such abominable arts and contrivances . so if it should prove not to be true , it cannot but be looked on as animated by such an evil surmise as is of no small provocation in the sight of god and men . this reverend author makes a distinction about communion with the church , page . between what is required of ministers , and that which is called lay-communion , which is the foundation of this charge . i do not confound bare suspending communion in some particular rites , which persons do modestly scruple , and using it in what they judge to be lawful ; with either total , or at least ordinary forbearance of communion in what they judge to be lawful , and proceeding to the forming of separate congregations , i. e. under other teachers , and by other rules than what the established religion allows . and this is the present case of separation which i intend to consider , and to make the sinfulness and mischief of it appear . but he knows that by the communion , and uniting our selves unto the church , which is pressed either on ministers or people , a total submission unto the rule as established in the book of canons , and rubrick of the liturgy , is required of them all . when this is once engaged in , there is no suspending of communion in particular rites to be allowed ; they who give up themselves hereunto , must observe the whole rule to a tittle . nor is it in the power of this reverend author , who is of great dignity in the church , and as like as any man i know to be inclined thereunto , to give indulgence unto them in their abstinence from the least ceremony enjoined . wherefore the question about lay-communion , is concerning that which is absolute and total , according unto all that is enjoined by the laws of the land , or by the canons , constitutions , and orders of the church . hereby are they obliged to bring their children to be baptized with the use of the aerial sign of the cross ; to kneel at the communion ; to the religious observation of holy-days ; to the constant use of the liturgie in all the publick offices of the church , unto the exclusion of the exercise of those gifts which christ continues to communicate for its edification ; to forego all means of publick edification , besides that in their parish-churches , where , to speak with modesty , it is oft times scanty and wanting ; to renounce all other assemblies wherein they have had great experience of spiritual advantage unto their souls ; to desert the observation of many useful gospel-duties , in their mutual watch that believers of the same church ought to have one over another ; to divest themselves of all interest of a voluntary consent in the discipline of the church , and choice of their own pastors ; and to submit unto an ecclesiastical rule and discipline , which not one in a thousand of them can apprehend to have any thing in it of the authority of christ or rule of the gospel ; and other things of the like nature may be added . this being the true state of lay-communion , which will admit of no indulgence , if the rule be observed , i must say , that i do not believe that there are six nonconformist ministers in england that do believe this communion to be lawful for the people to embrace . and on the other hand , they cease not to instruct them wherein their true communion with the church of england doth consist , namely , in faith and love , and all the fruits of them , unto the glory of god. i heartily wish these things had been omitted , that they had not been spoken ; not to cover any guilt in the nonconformists , whose consciences are unto them a thousand witnesses against such imputations : but whereas the ground of them is only surmises and suspicions , and the evil charged of the highest nature that any men can involve themselves in the guilt of , it argues such a frame of spirit , such an habit of mind , as evidenceth men to be very remote from that christian love and charity , which on all hands we sometimes pretend unto . of the same nature is another charge of the like want of sincerity pag . those , saith he , who speak now most against the magistrates power in matters of religion , had ten substantial reasons for it , when they thought the magistrates on their own side . for which is quoted an answer unto two questions , . that is , they change their opinions according to their interest . i know not directly whom he intends . those who are commonly called independents , expressed their apprehension of the magistrates power in and about religion , in their confession made . that any of them have , on what hath ensued , changed their opinion therein , i know not . and for my part . i have on this occasion perused the answer unto the two questions directed unto , and do profess my self at this day to be of the same judgment with the author of them , as it is expressed in that paper . there are things not easily to be numbred , wherein we acknowledge the magistrates power and duty in matters of religion , as much as ever was in the godly kings of judah of old or was at first claimed by the first christian emperors . yet are there some , who , although they are fed and warmed , promoted and dignified by the effects of the magistrates power in and about religion , who will not allow that any thing is ascribed unto him , unless we grant that it is in his rightful power , and his duty , to coerce and punish with all sorts of mulcts , spoiling of goods , imprisonments , banishments , and in some cases death itself , such persons as hold the head , and all the fundamental principles of christian religion entire , whose worship is free from idolatry , whose conversations are peaceable and useful , unless in all things they comply with themselves ; when possibly some of them may be as useful in and unto the church of god , as those that would have them so dealt withal . and it may be common prudence would advise a forbearance of too much severity in charges on others for changing their opinions , lest a provocation unto a recrimination on them that make them should arise , of changing their opinions also , not without an appearing aspect to their own interests : but we have some among the nonconformists , who are so accustomed not only unto such undue charges as that here insisted on , but unto such unjust accusations , false reports , malicious untruths , concerning them , their words , doctrine and practises , which being invented by a few ill men , are trumpeted abroad with triumph by many , as that they are come to a resolution never to concern themselves in them any more . . as unto the state of the question we are told , that he speaks not of the separation or distinct communion of whole churches from each other , which according to the scripture , antiquity and reason , have a just right and power to govern and reform themselves . by whole churches , i mean the churches of such nations , which upon the decay of the roman empire , resumed their just right of government to themselves , and upon their owning christianity , incorporated into one christian society , under the same common tyes and rules of order and government , pag. . i do suppose that particular churches or congregations are hereby exempted from all guilt of schism , in not complying with rules of communion imposed on them by other churches ; i am sure according unto the principles of nonconformists they are so . for they judge that particular or congregational churches stated with their officers according to the order of the gospel , are entire churches , that have a just right and power to govern and reform themselves . until this be disproved , until it be proved , either that they are not churches , because they are congregational , or that although they are churches , yet they have no power to govern and reform themselves , they are free from the guilt of schism in their so doing . but the reverend author seems in the ensuing discourse to appropriate this right and power unto national churches , whose rise he assigns unto the dissolution of the roman empire , and the alteration of the church government , into that of distinct kingdoms and provinces . but this is a thing that fell out so long after the institution of churches , and propagation of christian religion , that we are not at all concerned in it ; especially considering , that the occasion and means of the constitution of such churches , was wholly foreign unto religion , and the concerns of it . the right and power of governing and reforming themselves here spoken of , is that which is given by christ himself unto his churches , nor do i know else where they should have it . wherefore those national provincial churches which arose upon the dissolution of the roman empire , must first be proved to be of his institution , before they can be allowed to have their power given them by jesus christ. in what kings , potentates and other supream magistrates might doe , to accommodate the outward profession of religion unto their rule , and the interest thereof , we are not at all concerned ; nor will give interruption unto any of them , whilest they impose not the religious observation of their constitutions unto that end , upon our consciences and practice . our sole enquiry is , what our lord jesus christ hath ordained , which if we are compliant withall , we shall fear neither this nor any other charge of the like nature . but to give strength hereunto , it is added ; just as several fam●●●●● united make one kingdom , which at first had a distinct and independent power , but it would make strange confusion in the world , to reduce kingdoms back again to families , because at first they were made up of them . pag. . which is again insisted on , pag. . but the case is not the same . for if indeed god had appointed no other civil government in the world but that of families , i should not much oppose them who would endeavour peaceably to reduce all government thereunto . but whereas we are certain , that god by the light of the law of nature , by the ends and use of the creation of man , and by express revelation in his word , hath by his own authority appointed and approved other sorts of civil government , in kingdoms and common-weals , we esteem it not only a madness to endeavour a reduction of all government into families , as unto the possibility of the thing ; but a direct opposition unto the authority , command , and institution of god. so if these national churches were of the immediate institution of christ himself , we should no more plead the exemption of particular churches from any power given them by christ as such , than we do to exempt private families from the lawful government of publick magistrates . and we must also adde , that whatever be their original and constitution , if all their governours were as the apostles , yet have they no power but what is for edification , and not for destruction ; if they do or shall appoint and impose on men what tends unto the destruction of their souls , and not unto their edification , as it is fallen out in the church of rome ; not only particular churches , but every individual believer is warranted to withdraw from their communion ; and hereon we ground the lawfulness of our separation from the church of rome , without any need of a retreat unto the late device of the power of provincial churches to reform themselves . let none mistake themselves herein , believers are not made for churches , but churches are appointed for believers . their edification , their guidance and direction in the profession of the faith and performance of divine worship in assemblies according to the mind of god , is their use and end ; without which they are of no signification . the end of christ in the constitution of his churches , was not the moulding of his disciples into such ecclesiastical shapes , as might be subservient unto the power , interest , advantages and dignity of them that may in any season come to be over them ; but to constitute a way and order of giving such officers unto them , as might be in all things usefull and subservient unto their edification ; as is expresly affirmed ; ephes. . , , , . as it should seem an opinion opposite unto this notion of national churches , is examined and confuted , pag. . ibid it is a great mistake to make the notion of a church barely to relate to acts of worship ; and consequently that the adequate notion of a church , is an assembly for divine worship ; by which means they appropriate the name of churches to particular congregations . whereas , if this hold true , the church must be dissolved as soon as the congregation is broken up ; but if they retain the nature of a church , when they do not meet together for worship , then there is some other bond that unites them ; and whatever that is , it constitutes the church . i am far from pretending to have read the writings of all men upon this subject ; nay i can say , i have read very few of them ; though i never avoided the reading of any thing written against the way and order which i approve of . wherefore there may be some , as far as i know , who have maintained this notion of a church , or that it is only an assembly for divine worship ; but for my part i never read nor heard of any who was of this judgment . assemblyes for divine worship we account indispensably necessary for the edification of the churches ; but that this is that which gives them their constitution and formeth that which is the bond of their union , none of the nonconformists as i know of , do judge . for it will not only hence follow , as the reverend author observes , that the church is dissolved when the congregation is broken up , ( on which account churches at this time would be dissolved almost every week whether they would or no ; ) but that any sort of persons who have no church-relation unto one another , meeting occasionally for divine worship , do constitute a church , which it may be within an hour , they cease to be . it is not therefore on this account that we appropriate the name of churches unto particular congregations ; there is quite another way and means , another bond of union whereby particular churches are constituted ; which hath been sufficiently declared . but if the meaning of the appropriating the name of churches unto particular congregations be , that those societies which have not , or which cannot have assemblies for divine worship are not churches properly so called , it is a thing of another consideration that need not here be insisted on . but when such societies as whose bounds and limits are not of divine institution , as were those of the national church of the jews ; no nor yet of the prudence and wisdom of men , as were the distribution of the ancient church into patriarchates and diocesses ; but a meer natural and necessary consequent of that prevailing sword , which on the dissolution of the roman empire erected distinct kingdoms and dominions , as men were able ; such societies as are not capable of any religious assemblies for divine worship , and the ministration of christian discipline in them ; such as are forced to invent and maintaine an union by ways and means , and officers and orders , which the scripture knows nothing of , are proved to be churches of christs institution , i shall embrace them as such ; in the mean time let them pass at their own proper rate and value , which the stamp of civil authority hath put upon them . what is further discoursed by the author on this subject , proceeding no further but why may it not be so and so , we are not concerned in . . pag. , . there is a distribution of all dissenters into two parties ; ( . ) such as say , that although they are in a state of separation from our church , yet this separation is no sin . . such as say , that a state of separation would be sin , but notwithstanding their meeting in different places , yet they are not in a state of separation . the difference of these two parties seems to me , to be only in the different ways of expressing themselves , the one granting the use of the word separation in this case , which others will not admit . for their practice , so far as i can observe , is one and the same , and therefore their principles must be so also , though they choose several ways of expressing them . both sorts intended , do plead , that in sundry things they have communion with the church of england , and in some things they have not , nor can have it so . some knowing the word separation to be of an indifferent signification , and to be determined as unto its sence by what it is applyed unto , do not contend but that if any will have it so , the state wherein they are , should be denominated from their dissent unto those things wherein they cannot hold communion with the church of england ; and so are not offended if you call it a state of separation ; how best this hinders not but that they continue their communion with the church of england , as was before mentioned . others seem to take separation in the same sence with schisme , which is alwayes evil . or at least they pretend it is their right to have the denomination of their state taken from what they agree in with the church of england , and not from their dissent in other things from it . and therefore they continue in a practice suitable unto that dissent . wherefore i judge that there is no need of this distinction , but both parties intended are equally concerned in the charge that is laid against them for their dissent in some things from the church . these things being premised , that we may not be diverted from the substance of the cause in hand , as they would otherwise occurre unto us in our progress , i shall proceed unto the consideration of the charge it self laid against the nonconformists , and the arguings whereby it is endeavoured to be confirmed . the charge is , that all the nonconformists of one sort or another , that is , presbyterians and independents , are guilty of sin , of a sinful separation from the church of england ; and therefore as they live in a known sin , so they are the cause thereby of great evils , confusions , disturbances among our selves , and of danger unto the whole protestant religion ; whence it is meet , that they should , &c. the matter of fact being thus far mutually acknowledged , that there is such a stated difference between the church of england and the nonconformists , the next enquiry naturally should be on these two heads . . who or what is the cause of this difference or distance ; without which we cannot judge aright , on whom the blame of it is to be charged . for that all men are not presently to be condemned for the withdrawing from the communion of any church , because they do so , without a due examination of the causes for which they do it , will be acknowledged by all protestants . in plain terms , our enquiry is , whether the cause hereof be on the one hand , the imposition of terms of communion without any obligation in conscience to make that imposition , so much as pleaded or pretended from the nature of the things imposed ; or the refusal of complyance with those impositions , under a profession that such a complyance would be against the light of conscience and the best understanding in them who so refuse , which they can attain of the mind and will of god in the scripture . . whereas the parties at difference do agree in all substantial parts of religion , and in a common interest as unto the preservation and defence of the protestant religion , living alike peaceably under the same supream authority and civil government ; whether the evils and inconveniencies mentioned , are necessary and inseparable effects of such a difference ; or whether they do not wholly owe themselves unto passions , corrupt affections , and caernal interests of men , which ought on all hands to be mortifyed and subdued . for as , it may be , few wise men who know the nature of conscience , how delicate and tender it is , what care is required in all men to keep it as a precious jewel , whose preservation from defilements and affronts , god hath committed unto us , under the pain of his eternal displeasure ; how unable honest men are to contravene the light of their own minds , in things of the smallest importance , for any outward advantages whatever ; how great care , diligence and accuracy ought to be used in all things relating unto the worship of god , about which he so frequently declares his jealousie , and displeasure against those who in any thing corrupt or debase it ; with sundry other things of the like nature , will admire that these differences are not ended among us , by an absolute acquiescency of the one party in the judgments , dictates and impositions of the other ; so upon the supposition before mentioned , of an agreement in all the foundations of religion , in all things from themselves and gods appointment necessary unto salvation ; of that union of affections , which our joint interest in the unity of the faith doth require , and of that union of interest which both parties have in the preservation of the protestant religion , and that of obedience and subjection unto the same civil government ; and on the satisfaction which the dissenting parties have , in that the other do enjoy all those great advantages which the publick profession of religion in this kingdom is accompanied withall , not in the least pretending to or contending for any share therein ; many wise men do and cannot but admire , that the inconveniencies and evils pretended should ensue on this difference as it is stated among us , and that the dissenters should be pursued with so much vehemency as they have been , even unto their ruin . but we must proceed in the way and method here proposed unto us . . the foundation whereon the reverend author manageth his charge of schism with all its consequents against the nonconformists , is taken from the words of his text , and declared , pag. , , , , . of his book . i shall not transcribe his words , principally because i would not oblige my self to take notice of any thing that is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , which in such discourses do commonly administer occasion of unnecessary strife . the force of the argument unto the best of my understanding consists in the things that follow . ( . ) that all churches and the members of them , by vertue of the apostolical precept contained in the text ought to walk according unto rule . ( . ) that the rule here intended is not the rule of charity and mutual forbearance in the things wherein they who agree in the foundation , are differently minded or otherwise than one another . but ( . ) this was a standing rule for agreement and uniformity in practice in church order and worship , which the apostles had given and delivered unto them . ( . ) that this rule they did not give only as apostles , but as governours of the church ; as appears from acts . wherefore what the apostles so did , that any church hath power to do , and ought to do , namely , to establish a rule of all practice in their communion . ( . ) that not to comply with this rule in all things is schisme , the schisme whereof nonconformists are guilty . this to the best of my understanding is the entire force of the argument insisted on , and that proposed unto the best advantage for the apprehension of its force and strength , &c. let us therefore hereon a little inquire whether this will bear the weight of so great a charge as that which is built upon it and resolved into it , with all the dismal consequents pretended to ensue thereon ; and we shall not pass by in so doing , any thing that is offered to give an especial enforcement unto the charge it self . but in our entrance into the consideration of these things , i must needs say , it is somewhat surprising unto me , to see a charge wherein the consciences , reputations , liberty , &c. of so many are concerned , founded on the exposition of a text , which no sober expositor that i know of , did ever find out , propose , or embrace . but if it be true and according unto the mind of the holy ghost , this ought to be no disparagement unto it , though it be applyed unto such an end . this is that which we are to examine . i say therefore , ( . ) we no way doubt but that the apostles did give rules of faith , obedience and worship , not only unto private christians , but to whole churches also , which we find recorded in the scripture . unto all these rules we do declare our assent and consent , with an entire conformity ; and do hope that with indifferent unbiassed persons this is enough to free us from the charge of schisme . ( . ) for the rule here intended , some take it to be the rule of faith in general or divine revelation ; some to be the rule of charity and brotherly condescention ; some to be the particular rule here laid down of walking together in the different measures of faith , light and knowledge , which we do attain unto . the apostle in the foregoing verses having given an account of the glorious excellencies of the mysteries of the gospel , and of his own endeavour after the full attainment of them , yet affirms that he had not attained unto that perfection in the comprehension of them , which he designed and aimed at . herein in the instance of himself he declares the condition of the best believers in this life , which is not a full measure and perfection in the comprehension of the truths of the gospel , or enjoyment of the things themselves contained in them . but withall he declares their duty in pressing continually by all means after that measure of attainment which is proposed unto their acquisition . hereupon he supposes what will certainly ensue on the common pursuit of this design , which is , that men will come unto different attainments , have different measures of light and knowledge , yea and different conceptions or opinions about these things ; some will be otherwise minded than other some will be , in some things only . hereupon he gives direction how they should walk , and behave themselves in this state and condition . and unto those who have attained that measure , whence in comparison of others they may be styled perfect , that they press on unanimously towards the end proposed . and as for those who in any things differed from others , he encourageth them to wait on the teachings of god in that use of the means of instruction which they enjoyed . and having prescribed to each supposed party their especial duties as such , he lays down the duty of them both in common ; which is , that in and with respect unto what they had attained , they should walk by the same rule , namely , which he had now laid down , and mind the same things as he had before enjoyned them . wherefore these words of the apostle are so far from being a foundation to charge them with schisme who agreeing in the substance of the doctrine of the gospel , do yet dissent from others , ( probably the greater part of the church are intended ) in some things ; that it enjoyns a mutual forbearance among those who are so differently minded . ( . ) but our author affirms that it cannot be a rule of charity and mutual forbearance that is intended , because the apostle had spoken of that just before . but it is apparent that he speaks these words , with reference unto what he had said just before ; and if this be that which those who are otherwise minded are not obliged unto , then are they not obliged at all to walk by the rule intended , which is not the mind of the apostle ; so himself declares out of cajetan , that the apostle subjoins the last words to the former , least the persons he there speaks unto should think themselves excused from going as far as they can in the same rule . pag. . but a rule , he says , it is limiting and determining the practice , requiring uniformity in observing the same standing rule . the nonconformists hereon do say , that if the apostles , or any one apostle did appoint such a rule as this intended , let it be produced with any probability of proof to be theirs , and they are all ready to subscribe and conform unto it . on supposition that any rule of this nature was appointed by the apostles , and declared unto the churhes , as the reverend author i suppose doth intimate that it was , ( though i dare not affix a determinate sense unto his words in this place ) all that can be required of us , is that we do conform , and walk according unto that rule , so appointed and declared by them . this we are alwayes ready to doe . sundry general rules we find in the scripture given unto us , relating unto the constitution and edification of churces , to their order and worship , and government ; sundry particular rules for ministers and others , how they should behave themselves in church societies and assemblies , are also laid down therein ; all which we embrace and submit unto the authority of christ in them . and if any other government or particular rule can be produced , given by them , which is not recorded in the scripture , so it can be proved to be theirs , we will engage to conform unto it . . if the rule pretended to be given by the apostle be of any use in this case , or can give any force unto the argument in hand , it must be such an one as appointed and required things to be observed in the worship of god that were never divinely appointed , imposing the observation of them on the consciences and practices of all members of the church , under penalties spiritual and temporal ; a rule constituting national churches , with a government and discipline suited unto that constitution ; with modes and ceremonies of worship no where intimated in the scripture , nor any way necessary in the light of reason . such a rule i say , it must be ; since although i should grant , ( which yet i do not ) that the consequent is good , that because the apostles made rules for the practice of the church that believers were bound in conscience to submit unto , therefore other ordinary governours of the church may do so also ; yet it will by no means follow that because the apostles appointed a rule of one sort , present church governours may appoint those of another . we know full well , and it is on all hands agreed , what is the rule that our conformity is required unto . if this be done from any rule given by the apostles ; it must be a rule of the same nature or to the same purpose ; otherwise by a pretence of their pattern or example , rules may be made directly contrary unto and destructive of all the rules they ever really gave , as it is actually fallen out in the church of rome . but . we deny that the apostles made or gave any such rules to the churches present in their days ; or for the use of the churches in future ages , as should appoint and determine outward modes of worship , with ceremonies in their observation ; stated feasts and fasts , beyond what is of divine institution , liturgies or forms of prayer , or discipline to be exercised in law courts , subservient unto a national ecclesiastical government . what use then they are or may be of , what benefit or advantage may come to the church by them , what is the authority of the superior magistrate about them , we do not now enquire or determine . only we say that no rule unto these ends was ever prescibed by the apostles . for , ( . ) there is not the least intimation of any such rule to be given by them in the scripture . there are in it as was before observed many express rules both general and particular , about churches , their faith , worship , and mens walking in them , thoroughly sufficient to direct the duty and practice of all believers in all cases and occurences relating to them . but of any such rule as that here pretended , there is no mention ; which certainly if it had been given , and of the importance which now it is pleaded to be of , such as that without it , neither peace , nor unity , nor order can be preserved in churches , some intimation at least would have been made of it therein . especially we may judge it would have been so , seeing sundry things ( every thing so far as we can understand ) wherein the edification of the church is any way concerned , are recorded in it , though of little or no use in comparison of what so great and general a rule would be of besides there is that doctrine delivered , and those directions given by them in the scripture , concerning the liberty of believers and forbearance of diffenters , as is inconsistent with such a rule and the imposition of it . ( . ) the first churches after their times knew nothing of any such rule given by them , and therefore after they began to depart from the simplicity of the gospel in any things , as unto worship , order and rule or discipline , they fell into a great variety of outward observances , orders , and ceremonies , every church almost differing in some thing or other from others , in some such observations ; yet all keeping the unity of the faith in the bond of peace . this they would not have done if the apostles had prescribed any one certain rule of such things that all must conform unto , especially considering how scrupulously they did adhere unto every thing that was reported to be done or spoken by any of the apostles , were the report true or false . ( . ) in particular when a difference fell out amongst them , in a business of this nature , namely , in a thing of outward order , no where appointed by the authority of christ , namely , about the observation of easter , the parties at variance appealed on the one side to the practice of peter , on the other to the practice of john ; both vainly enough ; yet was it never pretended by any of them on either side , that the apostles had constituted any rule in the cafe ; and therefore is it not probable that they esteemed them to have done so in things of an alike nature , seeing they laid more weight on this , than on any other instance of the like kind . ( . ) it is expresly denyed by good and sufficient testimony among them , that the apostles made any law or rule about outward rites , ceremonies , times , and the like . see socrat. lib. . cap. . however then the apostles might by their epistles and presence with the churches reform abuses that were creeping or crept in among them , and set things in order among them , with renewed directions for their walking ; and that all christians were obliged unto the observation of those rules , as all those still are unto whom they are applicable in their circumstances ; yet all this proves nothing of their appointing such a general rule as is pretended , and such a rule alone would be pleadable in this case ; and yet not this neither , untill either it were produced in a scheme of canons , or it were proved because they had power to make such a rule , so others may do the like , adding unto what they prescribed , leaving place unto others to adde to their rule by the same right , and so endlesly . the truth is , if god would be pleased to help us on all hands , to lay aside prejudices , passions , secular interests , fears , and every other distempered affection , which obstruct our minds in passing a right judgment on things of the nature treated on ; we find in the text and context spoken unto , a sacred truth divinely directive of such a practice as would give peace and rest unto us all . for it is supposed that men in a sincere endeavour after acquaintance with the truths and mysteries of the gospel , with an enjoyment of the good things represented and exhibited in them , may fall in some things , into different apprehensions about what belongs unto faith and practice in religion . but whilest they are such as do not destroy nor overthrow the foundation , nor hinder men from pressing towards the mark for the prize of the high calling of god in christ jesus , that which the apostle directs unto them , who are supposed to be ignorant of , or to mistake in the things wherein they do differ from others ; is only that they wait for divine instruction in the use of the means appointed for that end , practising in the mean time according to what they have received . and as unto both parties the advice he gives them is , that whereunto they have attained , wherein they do agree , which were all those principles of faith and obedience which were necessary unto their acceptance with god , they should walk by the same rule , and mind the same things ; that is , forbearing one another in the things wherein they differ ; which is the substance of what is pleaded for by the nonconformists . and that this is the meaning and intention of the apostle in this place , is evident from the prescription of the same rules in an alike case , rom. . this the reverend author saw , namely , that the rule there laid down , is such as expresly requires mutual forbearance in such cases , where men are unsatisfied in conscience about any practice in religion ; which seems in the same case to be quite another rule , than that which he supposeth to be intended in this place to the philipians . but hereunto he answers , that the apostle did act like a prudent governour , and in such a manner , as he thought did most tend to the propagation of the gospel , and the good of particular churches . in some churches that consisted most of jews , as the church of rome at this time did , and where they did not impose the necessity of keeping of the law on the gentile christians ( as we do not find they did at rome ) the apostle was willing to have the law buryed as decently , and with as little noise as might be ; and therefore in this case he perswades both parties to forbearance and charity , in avoiding the judging and censuring one another , since they had an equal regard unto the honour of god in what they did . but in those churches where the false apostles made use of this pretence , of the levitical law being still in force , to divide the churches and to separate the communion of christians ; these the apostle bids them beware of them and their practices , as being of a dangerous and pernicious consequence . pag. , . ( . ) no man ever doubted of the prudence of the apostle as a governour , though in this place he acts only as a teacher divinely inspired , instructing the churches in the mind of god , as unto the differences that were among them . ( . ) the difference then among the romans was about the observation of the mosaical ceremonies and worship , that is , so far as they might be observed , in the countreys of the gentiles out of the limits of the church , the land of canaan : it could not be therefore concerning such things as whose discharge and practice was confined unto the temple or that land , which yet the jews of hierusalem adhered unto , acts . , , , . their controversie therefore was principally about meats and drinks , days of feasting or fasting , and the like ; all founded in a supposed necessity of circumcision . ( . ) it is well observed by our author that the judaizing christians ( which in all probability at this time were the greatest number at rome , the gentile church not making any great encrease before the coming of the apostle thither ) did not impose the necessity of keeping the law on the gentile christians , at least not in that manner , as was done by the false teachers , who troubled the churches of the galathians and others , so as to reject them who complyed not with them out of church communion , and from all hopes of salvation . but yet both parties continued in their different practices , which through want of instruction what was their duty in such cases , produced many inconveniencies among them ; as judging or despising one another , contrary to the rule of christian love and charity . in this state the apostle prescribes unto them the rule of their duty ; which is plainly , to bear with one another , to love one another , and according to the nature of charity to believe all things , to believe that each party was accepted with god , whilest they served him according unto the light which they had received . and as it is to be thought that upon the giving of this rule and direction , they utterly laid aside all the animosities in judging and despising one another , which they had been guilty of ; so it is certain that they continued in their different practice a long time after without any rebuke or reproof . yea some learned men do judge , and that not on grounds to be despised , that the parties who differed were gathered into distinct churches , and so continued to walk , even to the dayes of adrian the emperour , when the last and final destruction of the whole nation of the jews did befall them ; after which , those who were not hardened to the utmost , gave off all expectation of any respect to be had with god , of their old institutions . i do not know how tho present case between the church of england and the non-conformists , could have possibly been more plainly and distinctly stated and exemplified in any thing that the churches were capable of or liable unto in those days , then it is in this case here stated and determined by the apostle ; in whose direction , rule , and determination we do fully acquiesce . but ( ) it is true also ( which this reverend author observes ) that when the false apostles ( or any other judaizing teachers , pretending to authority ) did impose the observation of the rites and ceremonies of the levitical law on any churches unto their disturbance and division ; the apostle looks hereon , as that which so far altered the case , that he gives other rules and directions about it . and if such impositions might be yet forborn in the like case , especially as accompanied with the severe supplement and addition of all sorts of outward penalties to be inflicted on them who cannot comply with them , an open door would appear into all that agreement , peace and quietness among us , which are desired . i have treated thus far of these things , not to manage a controversie with this author or any other , but only to shew that there is no ground to be taken from this text or its context , to give countenance unto the severe censure of schisme and all the evil consequents of it , as maintained by ill arts and practices , upon the non-conformists . the procedure of our author in the management of his charge , is in a way of proving from the assertions and concessions of the several parties whereinto he hath distinguished non-conformists , that they have no just cause to with-hold full communion from the church of england , especially in its parochial assemblies . and as unto the first party whom he affirms to grant that they are in a state of separation , he quotes some sayings out of a discourse of a nameless authour , concerning evangelical love , church peace and unity . and together with some concessions of his , he adds his judgment , that communion in ordinances must be only in such churches as christ himself instituted by unalterable rules , which were only particular and congregational churches . as i remember that author hath at large declared in his discourse , what communion believers ought to have with the church , or all churches , the church in every sense wherein that name is used in the scripture . but i shall not trouble my self to inquire into his assertions or concessions ; nor at present can i do so , not having that book with me where i now am . my business is only to examine on this occasion what this reverend author excepteth against or opposeth unto his assertion about congregational churches and the answering his charge of schisme , notwithstanding this plea of the institution of particular churches for the celebration of divine ordinances . this he doth pag. . granting this to be true , how doth it hence appear not to be a sin to separate from our parochial churches ; which according to their own concessions have all the essentials of true churches . and what ground can they have to separate and divide those churches , which for all that we can see , are of the same nature with the churches planted by the apostles at corinth , philippi , or thessalonica ? ans. we will allow at present that the parochial churches , at least some of them in this nation , are true churches ; that is , that they are not guilty of any such hainous errors in doctrine or idolatrous practice in worship , as should utterly deprive them of the being and nature of churches . yet we suppose it will not be made a rule , that communion may be with-held or withdrawn from any church in any thing , so long as it continues as unto the essence of it to be so . this author knows that testimonies may be produced out of very learned protestant writers to the contrary . ( . ) we do not say , it is not pleaded , that because communion in ordinances must be only in such churches as christ himself hath instituted , &c. that therefore it is lawful and necessary to seperate from parochial churches ; but it may be pleaded thence , that if it be on other grounds necessary to so seperate or with-hold communion from them ; it is the duty of them who do so , to joyn themselves in or unto some other particular congregations . the reasons why the non-conformists cannot joyn in that communion with those parochial churches which were before described , are quite of another nature , which are not here to be pleaded ; however some of them may be mentioned , to deliver us from this mistake , that the ground of seperation from them is the institution of particular congregational churches . and they are such as these . . there are many things in all parochial churches that openly stand in need of reformation . what these are both with respect unto persons and things , hath been before intimated , and shall be further declared if occasion require . but these parochial churches neither do , nor indeed can , nor have power in themselves to reform the things that ought by the rule of the scripture to be reformed . for none among us will plead , that they are intrusted with power for their own government and reformation . in this case we judg it lawful for any man peacoably to with-draw communion from such churches , to provide for his own edification in others . . that there are many things in the constant total communion of parochial churches imposed on the consciences and practices of men , which are not according to the mind of christ. the things of this nature i shall not here mention in particular . . there is no evangelical church discipline administred in such parochial churches , which yet is a necessary means unto the edification of the churches appointed by christ himself , and sacredly attended unto by the primitive churches . and we dare not renounce our interest in so blessed an ordinance of christ in the gospel . . the rule and government which such parochial churches are absolutely under in the room of that rule and discipline which ought to be in and among themselves , namely , that by the courts of bishops , chancellors , commissaries , &c. is unknown to the scriptures , and in its administration is very remote from giving a true representation of the authority , wisdom , love , and care of christ to his church ; which is the sole end of all church rules and discipline . the yoke hereof many account themselves not obliged to submit unto . . there is in such churches a total deprivation of the liberty of the people secured unto them by the rules and practices of several ages from the beginning of choosing their own pastors ; whereby they are also deprived of all use of their light and knowledge of the gospel , in providing for their own edification . . it cannot be denied , but that there is want of due meanes of edification in many of those parochial churches , and yet provision is made by the government that those churches are under , that none shall by any way provide themselves of better means , for that great end of all church society . it is on these and the like reasons that the non-conformists cannot joyn in total communion such as the rule pleaded for requireth , with parochial churches . in this state , as was said , the lord christ having instituted particular congregations requiring all believers to walk in them ; it is the duty of those who are necessiated to decline the communion of parochial churches , as they are stated at present , to joyn themselves in and unto such congregations , as wherein their edification and liberty may be better provided for according unto rule . but hereon the reverend author proceeds to oppose such particular congregations or churches , i think , as unto their original and necessity ; for so he speaks , page , to page . but i must needs say further , i have never yet seen any tolerable proof , that the churches planted by the apostles were limited to congregations . howbeit this seems to be so clear and evident in matter of fact , and so necessary from the nature of the thing it self , that many wise men , wholly unconcerned in our controversies , do take it for a thing to be granted by all without dispute . so speaks chief justice hobart , page . in the case of colt and glover cont . bishop coventry and litchfield . and we know well that the primitive church in its greatest purity , was but voluntary congregations of believers , submitting themselves to the apostles and after to other pastors , to whom they did minister of their temporals as god did move them . of the same judgment are those who esteemed the first government of the church to be democratical ; so speaks paulus sharpius , in the beginning the government of the holy church had altogether a democratical form , all the faithful intervening in the chiefest deliberations ; thus we see that all did intervene at the election of matthias unto the apostleship , and in the election of the six deacons , and when st. peter received cornelius an heathen centurion unto the faith , he gave an account of it to all the church : likewise in the council celebrated in jerusalem , the apostles , the priests , and the other faithful brethren , did intervene , and the letters were written in the name of all these three orders . in success of time , when the church increased in number , the faithful retiring themselves to the affairs of their families , and having left those of the congregation , the government retained only in the ministers , and became aristocratical , saving the election which was popular . and others also of the same judgment may be added . but let us hear the reasoning of this learned author against this apprehension ; this he enters upon , page . it is possible , at first , there might be no more christians in one city than could meet in one assembly for worship ; but where doth it appear , that when they multiplied into more congregations , they did make new and distinct churches , under new officers , with a seperate power of government ? of this , i am well assured there is no marks nor foot-steps in the new testament , or the whole history of the primitive church . i do not think it will appear credible to any considerate man , that the christians in the church of jerusalem made one stated and fixed congregation for divine worship ; not if we make all the allowances for strangers which can be desired : but if this were granted , where are the unalterable rules that assoon as the company became too great for one particular assembly , they must become a new church under peculiar officers and an independent authority ? it is very strange that those who contend so much for the scriptures being a perfect rule of all things pertaining to worship and discipline , should be able to produce nothing in so necessary a point . i answer ( ) it is possible that an impartial account may ere long be given , of the state and ways of the first churches after the decease of the apostles ; wherein it will be made appear how they did insensibly deviate in many things from the rule of their first institution ; so as that though their mistakes were of small moment , and not prejudicial unto their faith and order , yet occasion was administred to succeeding ages to increase those deviations until they issued in a fatal apostasy . an eminent instance hereof is given us in the discourse of paulus sharpius about matters benificiary , lately made publick in our own language . ( ) the matter of fact herein seems to me evidently to be exemplified in the scripture . for although it may be there is not express mention made that these or those particular churches did divide themselves into more congregations with new officers ; yet are there instances of the erection of new particular congregations in the same province , as distinct churches with a seperate power of government . so the first church in the province of judea was in jerusalem : but when that church was compleat , as to the number of them who might communicate therein unto their edification , the apostle did not add the believers of the adjacent towns and places unto that church , but erected other particular congregations all the country over : so there were different churches in judea , galile , and samaria ; that is many in each of them ; act. . . so the apostle mentions the churches of god that were in judea ; thes . . and no where speaks of them as of one church , for worship , order , and government . so he speaks again , that is constantly , gal. . . i was unknown by face unto the churches of judea . and that these churches were neither national nor diocessans , but particular congregations , is as i suppose sufficiently evident . so was it in the province of galatia ; there is no mention of any church therein , that should be comprehensive of all the believers in that province . but many particular churches there were , as it is testified chap. . ver . . so was it also in macedonia , the first church planted in that province was at philipi , as it is declared , act. . and it was quickly brought into compleat order , so as that when the apostle wrote unto it , there were in it the saints whereof it was constituted , with bishops and deacons ; phil. . . but that church being so compleat , the apostle appointed other particular congregational churches , in the same province , who had officers of their own , with a power of government ; these he mentions and calls the churches of macedonia ; cor. . . . wherefore we need no more directions in this matter , then what are given us by the apostles authority in the name and authority of jesus christ ; nor are concerned in the practice of those who afterwards took another course , of adding believers from other places unto the church first planted , unless it were in case of a disability to enjoy church-communion among themselves elsewhere : whatever therefore is pretended unto the contrary , we have plain scripture evidence and practice , for the errecting particular distinct congregations , with power for their own rule and edification , in the same province , be it as small as those that were of samaria or galile . it cannot surely be said that these churches were national , wherof there were many in one small province of a small nation , nor yet metropolitical or diocesan ; nor i suppose will it be denied but that they were intrusted with power to rule and govern themselves in all ordinary cases ; especially when in every one of them , elders were ordained , which the apostles were careful to see done ; act. . . this is the substance of what we plead as unto particular congregations . ( . ) it is not probable , that any of the first churches did for a long time encrease in any city unto such a number , as might exceed the bounds of a particular church or congregation . for such they might continue to be , notwithstanding a multiplication of bishops or elders in them , and occasional distinct assemblies for some acts of divine worship . and it seems if they did begin to exceed in number beyond a just proportion for their edification ; they did immediately erect other churches among them or near them . so whereas there was a mighty encrease of believers at corinth ; act. . ; there was quickly planted a distinct church at cenchrea , which was the port of the city . rom. . . and notwithstanding the great number of that were converted at hierusalem , upon the first preaching of the gospel ; yet were they so disposed of or so dispersed , that some years after this there was such a church only there , as did meet together in one place as occasion did require , even the whole multitude of the brethren , who are called the church in distinction from the apostles and elders who were their governours ; act. . , . chap. . . nor was that church of any greater number , when they all departed afterwards , and went out unto pella a village beyond jordan , before the destruction of the people , city and temple . and though many alterations were before that time introduced into the order and rule of the churches , yet it appears that when cyprian was bishop of the church at carthage ; that the whole community of the members of that church , did meet together to determine of things that were for their common interest , according unto what was judged to be their right and liberty in those days ; which they could not have done , had they not all of them belonged unto the same particular church and congregation . but these things may be pleaded elsewhere if occasion be given thereunto . but yet , ( . ) i must say , that i cannot discern the least necessity of any positive rule or direction in this matter , nor is any such thing required by us on the like occasion . for this distribution of believers into particular congregations , is that which the nature of the thing it self and the duty of men with respect unto the end of such churches , doth indispensibly require . for what is the end of all churches for which they are instituted ? is it not the edification of them that do believe ? they will find themselves mistaken , who suppose that they were designed to be subservient unto the secular interest of any sort of men . what are the means appointed of christ in such churches for that end ? are they not doctrines and fellowship , breaking bread and prayer , that is , the joynt celebration of the ordinances of christ in the gospel , in preaching the word , administring the sacraments , mutual watchfulness over one another , and the exercise of that discipline which he hath appointed unto his disciples ? i desire to know whether there be any need of a new revelation to direct men who are obliged to preserve churches in their use unto their proper end , to take care of such things , as would obstruct and hinder them in the use of means unto that end of their edification ? whereas therefore it is manifest that ordinarily these means cannot be used in a due manner , but in such churches , as wherein all may be acquainted with what all are concerned in , the very institution it self is a plain command , to plant , erect and keep all churches in such a state , as wherein this end may be attained . and therefore if believers in any place are so few , or so destitute of spiritual gifts , as not to be able of themselves jontly to observe these means for their edification ; it is their duty not to joyn by themselves in a church-state , but to add themselves as members unto other churches ; and so when they are so many as that they cannot orderly communicate together in all these ordinances , in the way of their administration appointed in the scripture , unto the edification of them , it is their duty by vertue of the divine institution of churches , to dispose of their church-state and relation into that way which will answer the ends of it ; that is , into more particular churches or congregations . i speak not these things in opposition unto any other church-state , which men may erect or establish out of an opinion of its usefulness and conveniency ; much less against that communion which ought to be among those particular churches , or their associations for their common rule and government in and by their officers ; but only to manifest , that those of the non-conformists , which are supposed to adhere unto the institution of particular churches in a peculiar way ; do not thereby deserve the imputation of so great and intolerable a guilt as they are here charged withal . and whereas i have hereby discharged all that i designed with respect unto the first sort of non-conformists , as they are here distinguished , i might here give over the pursuit of this argument . but because i seek after truth and satisfaction alone in these things , i shall a little farther consider what is offered by this reverend author unto the same purpose with what we have passed through . so therefore he proceeds ; pag. . to pag. . if that of which we read the clearest instances in scripture , must be the standard of all future ages , much more might be said for limiting churches to private families , then to particular congregations . for do we not read of the church that was in the house of priscilla and aquila at rome ; of the church that was of the house of nymphas at colosse ; and in the house of philemon at laodicea ? why then should not churches be reduced to particular families , when by that meanes they may fully enjoy the liberty of their consciences , and avoid the scandal of breaking the laws ? but if notwithstanding such plain examples , men will extend churches to congregations of many families ; why may not others extend churches to those societies which consist of many congregations ? i answer ; ( ) possibly a church may be in a family , or consist only of the persons that belong to a family . but a family as a family neither is nor can be a church . for as such it is constituted by natural and civil relations . but a church hath its form and being from the voluntary spiritual consent , of those whereof it consists , unto church order ; they gave , saith the apostle , their own selves to the lord , and unto us by the will of god ; cor. . . neither is there any mention at all in the scripture of the constitution of churches in private families , so as that they should be limited thereunto . ( ) what is spoken of the church in the house of aquila , nymphas , and philemon , doth not at all prove that there was a particular church in each of their houses consisting only of their own families , as such ; but only that there was a church which usually assembled in their respective houses . wherefore ( ) here is no such example given of churches in private families in the whole scripture , as should restrain the extent of churches from congregations of many families . and the enquiry hereon , that if men will extend churches to congregations of many families , why may not others extend churches unto those societies which consist of many congregations , hath not any force in it . for they who extended churches unto congregations of many families , were the apostles themselves , acting in the name and authority of jesus christ. it cannot be proved that ever they stated , erected or planted any one church , but it was composed of persons out of many families ; nor that ever they confined a church unto a family ; or taught , that families , though all of them believers and baptized , were churches on the account of their being families . so others may extend churches unto those societies which consist of many congregations ; yet not so , as that those who cannot comply or joyn with them , should thereon be esteemed schismaticks ; seeing such societies were not appointed by christ and his apostles . if such societies be so constituted , as that there is but a probable plea that they are ordained by christ ; there may be danger in a dissent from them , meerly on this account , that they consist of many congregations ; but this is not our case , as hath been before declared . the remainder of this section consists in an account of the practice of the churches in some things in following ages . this though of importance in itself , and deserving a full enquiry into , yet belongeth not unto our present case ; and will , it may be , in due time be more fully spoken unto . those supposed of the first way and judgment , who grant a separation from the established form of the church of england , are dismissed with one charge more on , and plea against their practice , not without a mixture of some severity in expression ; pag. . but suppose the first churches were barely congregational , by reason of the small number of believers at that time , yet what obligation lies upon us to disturb the peace of the church we live in , to reduce churches to their infant state● ▪ which is pressed with sundry considerations in the two following pages ; but we say ; ( ) that the first churches were not congregational by reason of the small number of believers , but because the lord christ had limited and determined , that such a state of his churches should be under the new testament , as best suited unto all the ends of their institution . ( ) that which is called the infant state of churches , was in truth their sole perfect estate ; what they grew up unto afterwards most of them , we know well enough . for leaving , as it is called , their infant state by degrees , they brought forth at last the man of sin. ( ) no obligation lies upon us from hence to disturb the peace of any church ; nor do we do so , let what will be pretended to the contrary . if any such disturbance do ensue upon the differences that are between them and us , as far as i know the blame will be found lying upon them , who not being satisfied that they may leave the first state of the churches under a pretence of its infancy , and bring them into a greater perfection , then was given them by christ and his disciples ; but compel others also to foregoe their primitive constitution , and comply with them in their alteration thereof . the remainder of the discourse of this section , so farre as i can understand , proceeds on this principle , that the sole reason and cause of our non-conformity , is this perswasion of the divine institution of particular churches ; but all men know that this is otherwise . this of all things is least pleaded , and commonly in the last place , and but by some , among the causes and reasons of our withholding communion , so farre as we do so , from the church of england , as unto the way and manner wherein it is required of us . those reasons have been pleaded already , and may yet be so farther , in due time . for the rest of the discourse , we do not , we cannot believe , that the due and peaceable observation of the institutions of christ , doth of it self give any disturbance unto any churches or persons whatever ; nor that a peaceable endeavour to practise our selves according unto those institutions , without imposing that practice on them , can be justly blameable ; we do not , we cannot believe that our refusal of a total compliance , with a rule for order , discipline , worship and ceremonies in the church , not given by christ and his apostles , but requiring of us sundry things either in themselves , or , as required of us , directly contrary unto or inconsistent with the rules and directions given us by them unto those ends , ( as in our judgment and light of our consciences is done in and by this rule ) is either schism or blameable separation . we do judge our selves obliged to preserve peace and unity among christians , by all the means that christ hath appointed for that end , by the exercise of all grace , the performance of all duties , the observation of all rules and directions given us for that end ; but we do not , we cannot believe , that to neglect the means of our own edisication , appointed unto us by christ himself , to cast away the liberty wherewith he hath made us free , and to destroy our own souls for ever , by acting against his authority in his word , and our own consciences guided thereby , in a total complying with the rule proposed unto us , is a way or means for the attaining of that end. and we do believe that in the present state of the differences among us , an issue whereof is not suddenly to be expected in an absolute agreement in opinion and judgement about them , that the rule of the scripture , the example of the first churches , the nature of christian religion , and the present interest of the protestant religion among us , doth call for mutual forbearance , with mutual love , and peaceable walking therein . and we begin to hope , that whereas it is confessed that the foundations of christian religion are preserved entire among us all ; and it is evident that those who dissent from the present ecclesiastical establishments , or any of them , are as ready to do and suffer what they shall be lawfully called unto , in the defence and for the preservation of the protestant religion ; wise men will begin to think that it is better for them , to take up quietly in what the law hath provided for them , and not turmoil themselves and others , in seeking to put an end unto these differences by force and compulsion , which by these ways they will never whilst they live attain unto . and we do suppose that many of them who do cordially own and seek the preservation of the protestant religion in this nation ; men i mean of authority , power and interest , will be no more instrumental to help one party ruine and destroy another ; unduely weakening the whole interest of protestantisme thereby ; but considering how little the concern of themselves , or their posterity can be in these lesser differences , in comparison of what it is in the whole protestant cause ; will endeavour their utmost to procure an equal liberty , ( though not equal outward advantages ) for all that are firm and stable in their profession of that protestant religion which is established by law in this kingdom . i know that learned and eloquent men , such as this author is , are able , to declaim against mutual forbearance in these things with probable pleas and pretences of evil consequents which will ensue thereon . and i do know that others , though not with equal learning or eloquence , do declare and set forth the inequality , unrighteousness , and destructive events of a contrary course , or the use of force and compulsion in this cause . but it must be granted that the evil consequences pretended on a mutual forbearance , do follow from the corrupt affections and passions of men , and not from the thing it self ; but all the evils which will follow on force and compulsion , do naturally arise from the thing it self . i shall close this part of my discourse with an observation on that wherewith it is closed by this author , in his management of it . saith he , to withdraw from each other into separate congregations , tempts some to spiritual pride and scorn and contempt of others , as of a more carnal and worldly church then themselves ; and provokes others to lay open the follies and indiscretions and immoralities of those who pretend to so much purity and spirituality above their brethren ; pag. , . if there be any unto whom this is such a temptation as is mentioned in the first place , and being so , doth prevail upon them ; it is their sin , arising from their own lusts , by which every man is tempted , and is not at all occasioned by the thing it self ; and for the other part , let those who delight in that work proceed as they shall see cause . for if they charge upon us things that are really foolish , indiscreet , and immoral , as in many things we sin all , we hope we shall learn what to amend , and to be diligent therein , as for other reasons , so because of our observers . but if they do what some have done , and others yet continue to do , fill their discourses with false malicious defamations , with scorn , contempt , railing , and revilings , scandalous unto christian religion ; like a sermon lately preached before my lord mayor , and since put in print , ( i intend not that under consideration ) we are no way concerned in what they do or say ; nor do , as we know of , suffer any disadvantage thereby ; yea such persons are beneath the offence and contempt of all men , pretending unto the least of wisdom and sobriety . for what remains of this discourse , i esteem not my self concerned to insist on the examination of it . for i would not so express my judgment in these things , as some are here represented to declare themselves . and i know that those who are principally reflected on , are able to defend both their principles and practices . and besides i hear ( in the retirement wherein i live , and wherein i dye dayly ) that some of those most immediately concerned , have returned an answer , unto this part of the discourse under consideration . i shall therefore only observe some few things that may abate the edge of this charge . for although we judge the defence of the truth which we profess , to be necessary when we are called thereunto ; yet at present for the reasons intimated at the entrance of this discourse , we should choose that it might not be brought under debate . but the defence of our innocency , when the charge against us is such as in it self tends to our distress and ruine , is that alone which is our present design ; and which wise men , no way concerned in our non-conformity , for the sake of protestant religion and publick peace of the nation , have judged necessary . the principal strength of this part of the reverend authors discourse , consists in his application of the reasons of the assembly against those who desired forbearance in distinct communion from the rule sought then to be established , unto those who now desire the same forbearance from the church of england . i will not immerse my self in that controversie ; nor have any contention with the dead . this only i say , that the case then between the presbyterians and those who dissented from them , is so vastly different from that now between the church of england and the non-conformists , and that in so many material instances and circumstances , that no light can be communicated unto the right determination of the latter , from what was pleaded in the former . in brief , those who pleaded then for a kind of uniformity or agreement in total communion , did propose no one of those things , as the condition of it , which are now pleaded as the only reasons of with-holding the same kind of conformity from the church of england ; and the non-imposition of any such things , they made the foundation of their plea , for the compliance of others with them . and those on the other side , who pleaded for liberty and forbearance in such a case as wherein there were no such impositions , did it mostly , on the common liberty , which as they judged , they had with their other brethren , to abide by the way which they had declared and practised , long before any rule was established unto its prejudice . and these things are sufficient to give us , as unto the present case under debate , an absolute inconcernment in what was then pleaded on the one side or the other , and so it shall be here dismissed . the especial charge here managed against the non-conformists , is , that they allow that to live a state of separation from such churches , as many at least of ours are , is a sin ; yet that themselves so do ; which is manifest in their practice . but it may be said , ( ) that this concession respects only parochial churches , and that some of them only . but the conformity in general required of us , respects the constitution , government , discipline , worship and communion of the national church and diocesan churches therein . ( ) persons who thus express themselves are to be allowed the interpretation of their own minds , words and expressions . for if they do judge that such things do belong unto a state of separation from any churches , as namely , a causeless renouncing of all communion with them ; a condemnation of them as no church , and on that ground setting up churches against them , which they know themselves not to be guilty of , they may both honestly and wisely deny themselves to be in a state of separation , nor will their present practice prove them so to be . and on the other hand , those who do acknowledge a separation as unto distinct local presential communion with the church of england , yet do all of them deny those things , which in the judgment of those now intended , are necessary to constitute a state of separation . but on this account , i cannot see the least contradiction between the principles and practice of these brethren , nor wherein they are blame-worthy in their concession , unless it be in too much earnestness to keep up all possible communion with the church of england ; forgive them that wrong . yet i say not this , as though these who are here supposed to own a state of separation , were not as zealous also , for communion in faith , love and doctrine of truth with the body of protestants in this nation , as they are . ( ) that which animates this part of the discourse , and which is the edge of this charge , is , that the ministers do conceal from the people what their judgment is about the lawfulness of communion with the church of england . how this can be known to be so , i cannot understand ; for that it is their judgment that they may do so , is proved only , so far as i know , from what they have written and published in print unto that purpose . and certainly what men so publish of their own accord , they can have no design to conceal from any ; especially not from them who usually attend on their ministry , who are most likely to read their books with diligence ; but this hath been spoken unto before . in these things we seek for no shelter nor countenance from what is pleaded by any concerning the obliging power of an erronious conscience , which the reverend author insists on ; pag. , , . for we acknowledge no rule of conscience in these things which concern churches , their state , power , order and worship , but divine revelation only , that is , the scripture , the written word of god ; and sure enough we are , that we are not deceived in the choice of our rule , so as that we desire no greater assurance in any concerns of religion . and by the scripture as our rule we understand both the express words of it , and whatever may by just and lawful consequence be educed from them . this rule we attend unto , and enquire into the mind of god in it , with all the diligence we are able , and in the use of all the means , that are usually and truly pleaded as necessary unto the attainment of a right understanding thereof . and if any one can inform us of any thing required of us thereby , which yet we have not received , we shall with all readiness comply therewithal . we have no prejudices , no outward temptations , that should biass our minds and inclinations , unto those principles and practices on them , which we judge our selves guided and directed unto by this rule ; but all such considerations as might be taken from the most moderate desires , even of food and raiment , do lye against us . we are hereon fully satisfied , that we have attained that knowledge in the mind of god about these things , as will preserve us from evil or sin against him , from being hurtful or useless unto the rest of mankind , if we submit unto the light and conduct of it , wherefore we seek no relief in , we plead no excuse from the obligation of an erroneous conscience ; but do abide by it that our consciences are rightly informed in these things ; and then it is confessed on all hands , what is their power , and what their force to oblige us , with respect unto all humane commands . i know not of any farther concern that the non-conformists have in the discourse of this reverend author ; unless it be in the considerations which he proposeth unto them , and the advice which he gives them in the close of it . i shall only say concerning the one and the other , that having weighed them impartially unto the best of my understanding , i find not any thing in them , that should make it the duty of any man , to invent and constitute such a rule of church communion , as that which is proposed unto the non-conformists for their absolute compliance withal ; nor any thing that should move the non-conformists unto such compliance , against the light of their consciences , and understanding in the mind of christ ; which alone are the things in debate between us . but if the design of the author , in the proposal of these considerations and the particulars of his advice , be that we should take heed to our selves , that during these differences among us , we give no offence unto others , so far as it is possible , nor entertain severe thoughts in our selves of them from whom we differ , we shall be glad that both he and we should be found in the due observance of such advice . one head of his advice i confess , might be , if i am not mistaken , more acceptable with some of the non-conformists , if it had not come in the close of such a discourse , as this is ; and it is , that they should not be always complaining of their hardships and persecution ; pag. . for they say , after so many of them have died in common gaols , so many have endured long imprisonments , not a few being at this day in the same durance ; so many driven from their habitations into a wandring condition , to preserve for a while the liberty of their persons ; so many have been reduced unto want and penury , by the taking away of their goods ; and from some the very instruments of their livelyhood ; after the prosecutions which have been against them in all courts of justice in this nation , on informations , endictments , and suits , to the great charge of all of them who are so persecuted , and ruine of some ; after so many ministers and their families have been brought into the utmost outward streights which nature can subsist under ; after all their perpetual fears and dangers wherewith they have been exercised and disquieted , they think it hard they should be complained of for complaining , by them who are at ease . it may be remembred what one speaks very gravely in the comoedian . sed , demea , hoc tu facito ; cum animo cogites , quam vos facillime agitis ; quam estis maxume potentes , dites , fortunati , nobiles ; tum maxume vos aequo animo aequa noscere oportet , si vos vultis perhiberi probos . indeed , men who are encompassed with an affluence of all earthly enjoyments , and in the secure possession of the good things of this life , do not well understand what they say , when they speak of other mens sufferings . this i dare undertake for all the non-conformists ; let others leave beating them , and they shall all leave complaining . she is thought but a curst mother who beats her child for crying , and will not cease beating until the child leaves crying , which it cannot do whilst it is continually beaten . neither do i know that the non-conformists are alwaies complaining of their sufferings ; nor what are their complaints that they make , nor to whom . yea i do suppose that all impartial men , will judge that they have borne their sufferings with as much patience and silence , as any who have gone before them in the like state and condition . and they do hope , that men will not be angry with them , if they cry unto god for deliverance from those troubles which they judge they undergo for his sake . thankful also they are unto god and men , for any release they have received from their sufferings ; wherein their chief respect amongst men hitherto is unto the king himself . but that they should be very thankful to those , who esteem all their past and present sufferings to be light , and do really endeavour to have them continued and encreased ( among whom i do not reckon this reverend author , for i do not know that i can truly do so , ) is not to be expected . i shall add no more , but that whereas the non-conformists intended in this defence , are one , or do compleatly agree with the body of the people in this nation that are protestants , or the church of england , in the entire doctrine of faith and obedience , in all the instances whereby it hath been publickly declared or established by law ; which agreement in the unity of faith , is the principal foundation of all other union and agreement among christians , and without which every other way or means of any such union or agreement is of no worth or value , and which if it be not impeached is in it self a sufficient bond of union , whatever other differences may arise among men , and ought to be so esteemed among all christians ; and whereas they are one with the same body of the people , that is , in its magistracy and those who are under rule in one common interest for the maintenance and preservation of protestant religion , whereunto they are secured by a sense of their duty and safety ; and without whose orderly and regular concurrence in all lawful wayes and actings unto that end , it will not be so easily attained as some imagine ; and whereas also they are one with them in all due legal subjection unto the same supreme power amongst us , and are equally ready with any sort of persons of their respective qualities or condition in the nation , to contribute their assistance unto the prefervation of its peace and liberty ; and whereas in their several capacities , they are useful unto the publick faith and trust of the nation , the maintenance and encrease of the wealth and prosperity of it ; considering what evidences there are , of the will of god in the constitution of our natures under the conduct of conscience in immediate subordination unto himself , the different measures of light , knowledge and understanding , which he communicates unto men , as also of the spirit , rule and will of jesus christ , with the example of the apostles and the primitive churches , for mutual forbearance , in such different apprehensions of and practices about religion , as no way entrencheth on the unity of faith , or any good of publick society ; i cannot but judge ( in which perswasion i now live , and shall shortly dye ) that all writings tending to exasperate and provoke the dissenting parties one against another , are at this day highly unseasonable ; and all endeavours of what sort soever , to disquiet , discourage , trouble , punish or distress such as dissent from the publick rule , in the way before described , are contrary to the will of god , obstructive of the welfare of the nation , and dangerous unto the protestant religion . finis . erata . page . line . for well read meet . pag. . l. . for wherein read whom . pag. . l. the last , for may be read may not be . an exposition of the , , , , and th . chapters on the hebrews , being a third volum of that exposition . by john owen , d. d. sold by n. ponder at the peacock in the poultrey . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e gal. . . a post-script, or appendix to a treatise lately published by authority, intituled, hagio-mastix, or the scourge of the saints displaid in his colours of ignorance and blood. being an explication of the third verse of the thirteenth chapter of the prophecie of zacharie; (the tenour whereof is this: and it shall come to passe, that when any shall yet prophecie, then his father and his mother that begat him shall say unto him, thou shalt not live, for thou speakest lies in the name of the lord: and his father and his mother that begat him, shall thrust him through when he prophecieth.) according to the analogie of the sriptures [sic], the scope and exigency of the context, and the sence of the best expositors upon the place. / by john goodwin a servant of god and men, in the gospel of jesus christ. hagiomastix. appendix goodwin, john, ?- . this text is an enriched version of the tcp digital transcription a of text r in the english short title catalog (thomason e _ ). textual changes and metadata enrichments aim at making the text more computationally tractable, easier to read, and suitable for network-based collaborative curation by amateur and professional end users from many walks of life. the text has been tokenized and linguistically annotated with morphadorner. the annotation includes standard spellings that support the display of a text in a standardized format that preserves archaic forms ('loveth', 'seekest'). textual changes aim at restoring the text the author or stationer meant to publish. this text has not been fully proofread approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. earlyprint project evanston,il, notre dame, in, st. louis, mo a wing g thomason e _ estc r this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (thomason tracts ; :e [ ]) a post-script, or appendix to a treatise lately published by authority, intituled, hagio-mastix, or the scourge of the saints displaid in his colours of ignorance and blood. being an explication of the third verse of the thirteenth chapter of the prophecie of zacharie; (the tenour whereof is this: and it shall come to passe, that when any shall yet prophecie, then his father and his mother that begat him shall say unto him, thou shalt not live, for thou speakest lies in the name of the lord: and his father and his mother that begat him, shall thrust him through when he prophecieth.) according to the analogie of the sriptures [sic], the scope and exigency of the context, and the sence of the best expositors upon the place. / by john goodwin a servant of god and men, in the gospel of jesus christ. hagiomastix. appendix goodwin, john, ?- . [ ], , [ ] p. printed for h: overton, and are to be sold at his shop in popes-head ally., london, : [ ] the preface is dated: march . . in the title, the words "the tenour whereof .. when he prophecieth." are enclosed in square brackets. the final leaf is blank. annotation on thomason copy: "aprill d ". reproduction of the original in the british library. eng bible. -- o.t. -- zechariah xiii, -- commentaries. religious tolerance -- england -- early works to . a r (thomason e _ ). civilwar no a post-script, or appendix to a treatise lately published by authority, intituled, hagio-mastix, or the scourge of the saints displaid in hi goodwin, john d the rate of defects per , words puts this text in the d category of texts with between and defects per , words. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - aptara keyed and coded from proquest page images - emma (leeson) huber sampled and proofread - emma (leeson) huber text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion a post-script , or appendix to a treatise lately published by authority , intituled , hagio-mastix , or , the scourge of the saints displaid in his colours of ignorance and blood . being an explication of the third verse of the thirteenth chapter of the prophecie of zacharie ; [ the tenour whereof is this : and it shall come to passe , that when any shall yet prophecie , then his father and his mother that begat him , shall say unto him , thou shalt not live , for thou speakest lies in the name of the lord : and his father and his mother that begat him , shall thrust him through when he prophecieth . ] according to the analogie of the sriptures , the scope and exigency of the context , and the sence of the best expositors upon the place . by john goodwin a servant of god and men , in the gospel of jesus christ . ioh. . . judge not according to the appearance , but judge righteous judgement . quidam christianae ac fraternae charitatis obliti , in tantum existimationem nostram quoquo modo student laedere , ut suam , se evertere nocendi cupiditate , non videant . aug. in resp. ad artic. sibi false impositos . prophetae fuerunt viri eloquentes , crebróque sunt usi tropis in scribendo , quibus multa obtexerunt . aug. de doctr. christ . l. . c. . mira profunditas eloquiorum tuorum ; quorum ecce ante nos superficies blandiens parvulis ; sed mira profunditas , deus meus , mira profunditas . horror est intendere in eam , horror honoris , & tremor amoris . aug. confess . l. . c. . quod est gladius ad vaginam , granum ad aristam , anima ad corpus , hoc est sensus genuinus ad ipsa verba sacrae scripturae . corn . à lapide . in argumento super . prophetas . london , printed for h : overton , and are to be sold at his shop in popes-head ally . a preface to the reader . good reader , i have almost daily occasion , as well to reverence , as remember , this gracious dispensation of god ( which elsewhere i have taken knowledge of in some of my writings ) that whereas his saints and servants commonly lie under the sorrow and shame of many infirmities , and some unworthy doings , yet he so governs and orders the ill will of their adversaries , that they seldom in their defamations or hard speakings against them , hit upon these ; but commonly lay the burden upon the whole shoulder , where the saints are strongest and best able to bear it , charging them with such crimes and matters of disparagement , not onely whereof they are altogether innocent and free , but which are most contrary to their choicest vertues , and to the tenour of such practises , which are their chiefest honour and commendation . joseph as great a pattern of chastity , as abraham was of faith , was yet defamed and accused , as an adulterer , and a violent attempter of the chastitie of others . a moses , who was meek above all the men on earth , b was yet charged to take too much upon him , and to lift up himself , above the congregation of the lord . c the prophet elijah , who was indeed the chariot and horsemen of israel , d i. a speciall means , and noble instrument of the safety of israel , was neverthelesse arrested by ahab , as he ( that is , as the onely man ) that troubled israel . e to passe by ( for the present ) many more instances of like consideration ; the lord christ himself was represented , and accused as an enemy unto caesar , f who yet was caesars best friend , being he , by whom kings reign , and princes rule . g for my self , i know my self to be compassed about with as many infirmities , as the weakest of men , and my great unworthinesse in many things is daily before me ; yet it hath pleased my god , whom i serve in the gospel of his dear son , still to hide my nakednesse from mine enemies , though many in number , and diligent inquirers after it ; and so to dispose of their hatred and ill will against me , that the fiery darts of their accusations have still hit where my brest-plate of righteousnesse is , and hath been most firme , and of best proof . it is too much for me to say of my self , nor will i say it ; but it would be a truth comely enough in the mouths of some others , to say , that i am , if not the best yet none of the worst friends , which the divine authority of the scriptures hath amongst men ; and that i have been as diligent , as faithfull , as laborious an assertor thereof , as any of those , who think themselves more worthy of the crown . all that i shall say of my self in this behalf , is , that if i have done any service for the world , since my entrance into it , or if the souls and consciences of men have any cause at all to blesse me , it is , because i have cloathed them with strength and confidence of the royall parentage and descent of the scriptures , and subdued their fears and jealousies of any subornation ( in that kinde ) under their feet ; or rather that i have attempted with all my heart , and all my soul , to do them . notwithstanding , with what importune clamour , and virulency of spirit , i have been of late traduced , not onely to vulgar cognizance , but to authority it self , as an enemy unto , and opposer of the heavenly originall of the scriptures , by some , who out of zeal to god ( for so they glosse the practise ) neglect their own trades and imployments , to follow satans , in accusing the brethren , h is so well known throughout the city , that any farther information from me , would be an impertinency . but though joseph was accused as an enemy to the chastity of his mistresse , yet the true reason and ground of his accusation ( as the scripture informeth us ) was , not his enmity , but his faithfulnesse , thereunto ; in like manner , though the matter of my accusation from the mouths of men , he opposition to the scriptures ; yet i make little question , but that the reall and true cause hereof , was not my opposing , but my avouching the scriptures , as the oracles , or word of god , by a strong and pregnant eviction from them of a notorious unworthinesse in those practises and proceedings against the saints , wherein these men with their fellows , were , to the reproach , not of christian religion onely , but of humanity it self , engaged . but all things ( saith the apostle ) that are [ to be ] reproved , are made manifest by the light : for whatsoever doth make manifest , is light . i. is by this act of manifestation or discovery , clearly evinced to be light , eph. . . and as joseph's mistresse accused him to his lord , for an adulterous attempt upon her , because he refused to be adulterous with her ; so because i have constantly refused to misfigure the face of the scriptures , and destroy the character of the divine glory which is stamped upon them , by compelling them to serve in the wars of high presbyterie , against both themselves , the saints , and the truth ; therefore have these men accused me before authority , as if i had blasphemed their honour , and contradicted that manifest and pregnant relation , wherein they stand unto god , as their father . that herein i charge them not , but with the royall assent of truth , is evident from hence : there is scarce any divine , or protestant author , having a like occasion to speak of the same subject , but have expressed themselves upon the point wherein i am made an offender , in terms far more obnoxious to exception then mine , a and yet my accusers are all thoughts made for them and as men in whose mouths there are neither complaints , nor reproofs . why ? these authors , either have ordered the scriptures and high presbyterie , and made them to agree ; or else they had no occasion to take notice of any disagreement between them . but because i have so demonstratively proved that the scriptures , and high presbyterie , point , like east and west , one diametrally opposite to the other , ergo , therefore my saying , that it is no foundation of christian religion , to beleeve that the english scriptures are the word of god , is a deniall of the divine authority of the scriptures simply , though another mans saying twice as much , would have amounted to no such sum of indignation . but that i daily fight with beasts at ephesus , after the manner of men , what advantageth it me ; if the scriptures be not the word of god ? or why have i bought so many scripture truths at such great rates as i have done , as with the losse of friends , credit , esteem with men , estate , yea of all hope , that i say not possibility , of bettering my portion and condition in the world , as low as it is , if i beleeve them not to be the word of god ? why did i so lately suffer a sequestration from , or ejection out of my free hold , ( the best means i had in the world , for the support and livelyhood of my self , wife , and seven children ) for none other cause , or crime that ever i could hear of , but for endeavouring to go before others in an example of a reall reformation ( .i. for my conscientious and faithfull observance of the solemn covenant , after by publique order and injunction from authority , i had taken it ) if i believe not the scriptures to be the word of god ? certainly if i did not really and cordially beleeve them to be the word of god , i would beleeve them as prudently , as many others do : i would so beleeve them , as not to be disturbed by them , or any thing in them , in my worldly interests : i would so believe them , as to keep fair quarter with soft raiment , great purses , full tables , and benches of honour , notwithstanding : nor would i sacrifice the least degree of my hope of rising in the world , upon the service of any thing whatsoever contained in them . nay , did i not verily believe them to be the word of god , i would not for their sakes , nor for the vindication of any thing which they say , expose my self , as now i do , to the clamorous , and stingling tongues of an ill imployed , and ( i fear ) a worse spirited generation of informers ( god forgive them , for i hope charitably , that they know not what they do ) i would write no books that should deserve burning by the common hangman , * but such onely which should be welcome to , and judged worthy to be sold , at the signe of the bible it self . for i confesse , that i am neither stoick , nor cynick : i had rather abound , then be in want : i had rather have the good wills , and the good words of my generation , then their bad ; and that the greatnesse of this world should rather smile , then frown , upon me . and for the acquirement and injoyment of my desires in all these i conceive i had as fair and large opportunities , as others of my brethren in the ministery , and had a price in my hand , as sufficient ( i make no question ) for the purchase , as many of those , who have bought , possesse , and injoy : whose felicity or advancement by their purchase , i ( god is my witnesse ) no waies emulate or envy . for i judge it ( in many cases ) best for the peace , and accomodation of the world , that they should enjoy the great things of the world , who least know how to want them , or what to do without them . but that which mainly separated between me , and the injoyment of my desires in this kinde , was nothing else , but my believing the scriptures to be the word of god : this principle within me , was ( i confesse ) too stiffe and stately to bow down at the feet of worldly accomodations , and these on the other hand thought themselves too good , to subject themselves unto , or comport with that my principle : and since they thus mutually resented the genius and temper one of another , they have been strangers , and kept at a distance , and by this time scarce know , remember , or take much care one for the other . it was a very irrationall and incongruous imputation which some cast upon paul , that he should preach circumcision , when as he suffered so deeply as he did , for non-preaching , at least for non-practising of it . and i brethren ( saith he ) if i yet preach circumcision , why do i yet suffer persecution ? then is the offence of the crosse ceased . a and certainly , reasonable and considering men being judges , my accusation of denying the divine authority of the scriptures , is every whit as senselesse and importune , when as i suffer , and have suffered every waies , in my credit , name , friends , estate , ease , yea , and expose my self daily to further sufferings , onely for believing , and acting this my belief of , their authority . my belief in this kinde , hath dealt as hardly by me , as the lord did by balaam ( in balaks interpretation ) i thought ( saith he , to him ) to promote thee to great honour : but so , the lord hath kept thee back from honour : b but that belief i speak of , which hath reigned in me , and over me , hitherto , and hath blessed me with such an abundance of peace and comfort , in sufferings for it , will not ( i hope ) forsake her throne , till either she hath overcome mine enemies , and so delivered me from suffering further ; or else changed the contemptiblenesse of what i am yet capable to suffer further in , into that spirit of glory , which resteth on those that suffer for the name of christ . b for i am resolved ( god assisting ) not to be ashamed of any of christs words , c nor to forbear , upon occasion , the freest utterance and asserting of them , before what generation soever : and hope , that neither name , nor friends , nor estate , nor liberty , nor life it self , which have not betrayed me hitherto , will ever for the future prove any snare of death unto me , or hinder me from finishing my course with joy . d if i shall miscarry or fall , in any of my standings up for the truth , the inconvenience or losse , is already cast up by luthers arithmetique ; malo cum christo ruere , quam cum caesare stare : i had rather fall with christ , then stand with caesar : i have begun to build a tower , and trust i have wherewith to finish it ; i am ingaged in a war against the world , and do not intend to send , or supplicate for conditions of peace ; nothing doubting , but that i have sufficient strength ( the strength of heaven ) to meet any adversary , that cometh against me , in the field . i make no question , but i shall perswade the judgements of some , to accept of that truth , whose cause i plead ; but the strength and glory of my comfort is , that of the apostle : we are unto god a sweet savour of christ , in them that are saved , and in them that perish , cor. . . ezekiel must prophecie , whether the people to whom he is sent will hear , or whether they will forbear , that they might know , there hath been a prophet amongst them , ezek. . . men are then prepared for destruction upon the best terms for the glory of god therein , when his truth hath been effectually made known unto them , they persisting in their former wayes of disobedience unto it . this is that , which the scripture calls , rebellion sam. . . and walking stubbornly against god ( as the former translation reads it ) lev. . . . . and in this respect , they who make known his truth unto me , are a sweet savour unto him , even in those who perish , through disobedience to it . as for him , who ( it seems ) counts it an honour to be an officer in blood unto satan , the scourger of the saints under the name of fools * ( for so indeed they are called in the dialect of the world , the language which this man speaketh ) the god of recompences a will provide a scourge for him , and that of scorpions , in due time , ( unlesse by repentance he becomes one of those fools , whom now he scourgeth ) and will declare from heaven , with an astonishing demonstration , who is the fool , and who is the wise man . and reader , were it not for fear of making my gates too big for my city , i should here , in further vindication of my self against the pretended crime of denying the divine authority of the scriptures , have directed thee to such passages in that discourse it self , which is constrained to bear the crosse of this forged cavillation , wherein i clearly acknowledge and assert the same : as . to pag. . where i suppose the fouls of men , to have been ransomed by the precious blood of iesus christ . so again to page . where i expresse my self thus . and though for my self , i can , and do without scruple , subscribe to the truth of this doctrine , yea and am ready , god assisting , to die for it ; that god is one in three persons , &c. certainly he that asserts , or takes for granted , that the souls of men were ransomed with the precious blood of jesus christ ; and again , that god is one in three persons , professing himself ready to die in attestation hereof , asserts his belief of the divine authority of the scriptures , with as much plainesse and evidence , as is lightly possible for any man in words to do . for who can really and cordially , and with a faith animating unto death , for the obsignation of their truth , believe either of these upon any lighter or looser foundation , then the authority or word of god himself ? the latter place ( i desire all the world to take knowledge of it ) which is the more pregnant of the two , wherein i professe my subscribing without scruple , to this doctrine , that god is one in three persons : and further , that i am ready to die , in attestation of it , god assisting me ; is in the very next page unto , and but a very few lines before , that unchristianly , yea , and sencelesly perverted , and mis-used passage , wherein my informers would fain perswade the world , that they see me under a deniall of the divine authority of the scriptures , with my pen . miserable mend who know not how to refrain from making themselves more miserable , then they are , by making sin of innocency in other men , and innocency of sin in themselves : yea , the truth is , that i am so far from denying the divine originall or authority of the scriptures in the said book , that sect. . beginning at the foot of page . i assert the same as demonstrable , by many grounds and arguments otherwise ; whereas the presbyterians ( more generally , as there i shew ) hold and affirm it undemonstrable upon such terms , by all arguments and reasons whatsoever , excepting onely the immediate illumination or revelation of the spirit of god . but i remember that he that glorified god more then all the world besides , was notwithstanding again and again charged with blasphemy , a and that by those , who thought they knew as well as all the world besides , what blasphemy was , yea , and judged themselves as holy just , and zealous men , as far from that great abomination of unrighteousnesse of condemning the innocent , as were to be found among all the living ; yea , this great , and blessed factour for god , and his glory , and for the salvation of the world , was at last notwithstanding all his faithfulnesse unto both worlds , sentenced even by such men as i spake of , worthy of death , as a blasphemer . b reader , i cannot but comfort my self with these words . the lord give thee a discerning spirit between things that differ , and keep thee from being either ravished with the spirit , or rapt up into the third heavens , of this present world . farewell . from my studie in colemanstreet , march . . thine , and all mens , in the service of the lord jesus christ : john goodwin . zach. . . and it shall come to passe , that when any shall yet prophecie then his father and his mother , that begat him , shall say unto him , thou shalt not live : for thou speakest lies in the name of the lord : and his father , and his mother that begat him , shall thrust him through when he prophecieth . because there are some amongst us , who look upon this passage of scripture , as undoubtedly comporting with such a practise , which ( it seems ) too much comports with their desires , i mean , the inflicting of civill punishments by the magistrate , upon spirituall delinquents ( persons uttering , or teaching erroneous doctrines in religion ) and having had no occasion ministred , to argue this , as i had for severall others , in my late treatise , intituled , hagio-mastix , &c. i conceive it may be a good and acceptable service both unto god and man , to make a district and narrow search into the minde of the one in it , for the accomodation , and benefit of the other ; partly in rectifying the judgements and practise of some , partly in preserving others from undue sufferings . we shall steer our inquiry by the compasse , partly of the sence & minde of the holy ghost in other scriptures ; partly of the coherence and scope of the context ; partly , of the sence and import of the words themselves ; partly by the analogy of phrase or manner of expression found elsewhere in scripture : partly also of the apprehensions and judgements , of the best and soundest expositors we have had opportunity to see , and consult about the meaning of the place . so then , that the holy ghost had no intent as all to countenance the interposall of the civill sword , for the suppression or punishment of errour , or heresies under the gospel ( least of all , in these times , or , in the churches of the gentiles ) will clearly appear , if not divisim , yet conjunctim , by these ensuing considerations . . it clearly appears from the two preceding verses ( the first and second of this chapter : and indeed from the whole , both precedent and subsequent chapters ) that what is spoken in this third verse , concerning the high displeasure , which fathers and mothers should conceive against their children , when they should prophecie lies in the name of the lord , respecteth onely the nation , and church of the jews . nor is there the least hint or intimation given in the context , that any thing expressed in the said verse , relates unto the gentiles . for. i. ( v. . ) he mentions onely the house of david , and the inhabitants of jerusalem ( . the jews , of what rank or condition soever , noble , or ignoble ) as those , for , or , unto whom , the fountain for sin , and for uncleannesse , there spoken of , was to be opened . upon the same terms he expresseth himself in the gospel , thus mat. . . i am not sent , but unto the lost sheep of the house of israel : meaning , that he was not sent by his father , to minister in the daies of his flesh , either by preaching the word of the kingdom , or confirming it mith miracles , but onely unto the jews : in which respect the apostle calleth him a minister of the circumcision a meaning the jews . now as our saviour professing , that he was not sent , but to the lost sheep of the house of israel , speaketh , onely and determinately of the jews , not including the gentiles in the expression ; in like manner , when the holy ghost speaking and prophecying of him , and of his sending into the world , under the metaphor of a fountain to be opened to the house of david , and to the inhabitants of jerusalem , &c. cannot reasonably be conceived , in such an expression to minde the gentiles , but the jews onely . especially considering , that this prophecie of the messiah , and the blessing he should bring with him , was not simply directed unto the jews , and unto them onely , by the gracious appointment of god , but it was directed and sent unto them , being now in a dejected and low condition , on purpose for their incouragement and erection , as appears , ezra . . and all expositors agree . now when god is well pleased with the jews , or intends their comfort or incouragement by a message from himself by his prophets , he is not wont to speak of the calling of the gentiles , or of making these equall , or superiour , in holy priviledges , unto them : but when he puts this ingredient into any such addressement of himself unto them , it still argueth his displeasure and discontentment with them , according to what himself expresseth by the mouth of moses ( a little before his death ) they have moved me to jealousie , with that which is not god ; they have provoked me to anger with their vanities : and i will move them to jealousie with those , which are not a people , i will provoke them to anger with a foolish nation . b . these expressions , i will cut off the names of the idols out of the land , and again ; also i will cause the prophets , and the unclean spirit to passe out of the land ( ver. ) clearly shew , that the context speaks precisely and circumscriptively of the church and nation of the jews . it is a true and frequent observation amongst interpreters , that the word , land , indefinitely put , in the scriptures of the old-testament , alwaies in such constructions as this ( viz. where no particular countrey , or people besides , are treated of ) signifies , the land of canaan , the inheritance of the jews . . some of our best and most orthodox expositors , understand , not onely the present context ( i mean the passages near adjoyning both before and behinde , to the scripture in hand , and consequently , this scripture it self ) but the whole chapter , yea , and the whole proceeding and subsequent chapters , with a peculiar reference and limitation to the jews : yea , and further limit and confine the whole content of this chapter , to that tract or space of time , which began with the restauration of this church and state by the macchabees after the devastations , and prophanations of antiochus , and ended with the siege and destruction of the city and temple it self of jerusalem , which they conceive ( and that truly ) to be predicted , and described in the following chapter , a wherewith this prophecie ends . so that according to this calculation of the passage in hand , there is nothing at all herein prophecied concerning the churches of the gentiles , no nor concerning the church or nation of the jews themselves , under the gospel , at least after , or since the final destruction of their city and temple when ( according to the general and constant opinion both of ancient & modern divines ) the mosaicall politie and occonomie of that church and state fully expired , and gave up the ghost . now the practise or course here spoken of , ( viz the appearance and standing up of parents against their children , and that unto death , in the case of false prophecie in case it be to be literally understood ) being a branch of that politie , and enjoyned , deut. . . . &c. ( as all expositors almost i can meet with upon the place in hand , agree ) it is a ground of much probability ( at least ) that this prophecie reacheth not beyond the said terme of the expiration of the mosaicall law . if it be objected and said ; yea , but if this be foretold by god , in the nature of a speciall benefit , or blessing , which the church and nation of the jews should enjoy ( as it seems here to be ) viz. that the zeal of the truth , and purity of religion should be so great and prevalent amongst them , that parents themselves should do justice , and that even unto death , upon their own children , when they proved false prophets , and teachers of lies ; doth it not follow , that it will , and must needs be a proportionable benefit and blessing to all other churches and nations , when their respective magistrates shall proceed with the like zeal against the like delinquents ? to this i answer . . be it granted , that not only civill ( magistrates i mean ) but even naturall parents themselves lawfully may , yea , and of duty ought , in these times of the gospel , to proceed with the like zeal against the like delinquents , yet will it not follow , that they lawfully may , much lesse that of duty they ought , to expresse or act their zeal after the same manner , or with the self same kinde of expression . it was lawfull for the apostles , to be as zealous against the enemies of god and of christ , as it was for eliah ; yet it was not as lawfull for them to expresse their zeal by calling for fire from heaven to consume them , b as it was for him . so it is not onely as lawfull , but necessary also by way of duty , for the ministers of the gospel , to be as zealous for the glory of god , and for the peace and safety of their people , as either phineas , or the same eliah was : but it is not as lawfull for them , either to thrust adulterers or adulteresses thorow with spears or javelins , as phineas did ; nor to slay idolatrous priests with their own hands , as did eliah . in like manner , it may be as lawfull , yea , and a matter of duty lying as much upon parents , whether naturall or civill , now , to proceed with the same measure and strength of zeal , against their respective children , in cases of those sinfull misdemeanours specified in the scripture in hand , as it was heretofore either for the one kind of parent or the other , amongst the jews , to proceed against theirs ; and yet withall they may sin grievously , in case they shall utter their zeal in such outward actings against them , as the other did . the reason of the difference is , because god hath now under the gospel appointed other methods and means for the vindication of his glory , and the peace of his people , against the enemies of both , differing from those prescribed under the law ( as hath been argued , and proved in the preceeding treatise . ) and as the jews , though ( as the apostle testifies of them ) they had a zeal of god , [ that is , either for the glory of god , or for the obtaining of his favour ] a yet this zeal of theirs not being according to knowledge . . not being exercised or acted according to the will and minde of god revealed in the scriptures in that behalf , but according to their own erroneous sense & misapprehensions herein , sinned greatly , even to the losse of the favour of god for ever , in , and by such an execution , or acting of it : in like manner , men may be very zealously affected , either to promote the glory of god , or to procure his love and favour ; and yet by seeking to effect either the one , or the other , by means disallowed by god in the scriptures , they may both highly dishonour him on the one hand , and provoke his displeasure , instead of his favour , on the other , and that temptations in this kinde are very incident to persons of zealous affections and desires for gods glory , appears by the character of those times , wherein , as our saviour informes his disciples , whosoever killeth them , will think that he doth god service . b whosoever killeth them , will thinke , &c. this note of universality , whosoever , imports , that there would not be onely one , or two , or some lesse considerable numbers of men , that would stumble at the stone here spoken of , but that this would be a common or generall practise , countenanced and allowed , if not enacted , by the authority of states and kingdoms . the obnoxiousnesse of zeal to the said temptation , might be further confirmed by that example of the jews , recorded , act. . . who are there said to have stirred up the devout and honourable women , and the chief men of the city , and raised persecution against paul and barnabas , and expelled them out of their coasts ; as also by the example of paul himself , whilest yet he was saul ; who ( as himself confesseth ) was zealous towards god , and yet persecuted this way ( the way of christ ) unto the death , binding and delivering into prisons , both men and women . a yea , and verily thought that he did god service in so doing . * but . even those expositors , who understand the expression of thrusting thorow ( in the scripture in hand ) not literally only , but even to the utmost extent of the letter , viz. for an absolutely slaying by death , ( though the letter it selfe doth not inforce this , as we shall shew presently ) yet do not allow such proceedings as this in parents against their children , upon every false doctrine or errour taught , or published by them b nor do their hearts or learning here serve them to undertake the arbitration , between the severall kindes of false doctrines and errours ; so as to sanctifie such and such for the sword , and to shew mercy unto others . and whosoever will now undertake it , had need have a speciall commission for it under the broad seal of heaven , therefore such parents , who shall thrust their children thorow , or slay ( yea , or punish ) them for any false doctrine or error whatsoever , had need have a better , i mean , a more particular and speciall warrant for their practise , then this scripture : so that , . if the said expression of thrusting thorow , be to be taken literally , viz. either for slaying with death , or punishing otherwise ( with any civill punishment ) the particular delinquency or offence , against which such a proceeding is to take place , must be inquired after , and found out , onely by consultation had with the tenour of the law , deut. . , , &c. and deut. . , . &c. unto which scriptures , expositors generally ( as was formerly noted ) send their readers for a right understanding of the passage in hand . now the false prophet that was in these scriptures sentenced by god unto death , was not every heretick , or erroneous person ( especially as men now count heresie and errour ) but determinately , and onely such a false prophet , who endeavoured to perswade them to the worship of a false god , and that by pretending the inspiration of some deity , for the confirmation of such a doctrine ; a ( as was sufficiently proved in the fore mentioned treatise , sect. . ) so that howsoever , by the joynt consent of interpreters upon the place in hand , thrusting thorow ( in the literall or proper import of the word , whether high , or low , ) was never allowable by god in the old testament ( much lesse is it in the new ) for any other kinde of false prophecying or teaching , but that onely whose express bent and tendencie was , to draw off people from the worship and service of the true god , and to allure them to the worship of some idoll , or false god , yea , and this by asserting some speciall revelation as of divine authority , and credit , to procure credit , and acceptation for such a doctrine . . tarnovius a protestant and learned expositor , observes , that the originall word , {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , transfodit , seu transfixit , doth not always signifie such a thrusting throw , which is unto death , but sometimes such a wounding , which admits of a ready cure , as well as of a recovery : and cites , jer. . . for this signification : yea , and further affirms , that if men will needs understand the expression of thrusting thorow ( ver. . ) literally and properly , they must of necessity , considering and comparing herewith what follows in the sixt verse , understand it , in such a sence . from whence also he infers , that the punishment of thrusting thorow here spoken of , if taken properly , cannot be meant of any punishment to be inflicted by the civill magistrate , but by the naturall parents only , to whom we know , as he saith ) that god hath given power of correction , and that by stripes and scourgings , against their disobedient children . a the tenour of this sixt verse , is this : and one ball say unto him , what are these wounds in thine hands ? then he shall answer , those with which i was wounded in the house of my friends . but , . the said author delivers this ensuing exposition as his sence upon the place , viz. that friends of neerest relation , even naturall parents themselves , shall so far subject their most dear and tender affections , and ingagements otherwise , to their zeal for the truth and puritie of religion , that when any , even of those that are neerest and dearest unto them , through the allurement of that unclean spirit ( spoken of v. . ) shall prophecy , they shall [ or will ] endeavour to take him off , and deter him from such a practise , by producing and laying before him the sentence of death out of the law of god . exod. . . . threatening him after this manner ; if thou goest on , thou shalt not live [ with god ] but shalt be condemned ( for the phrase , compare ezek. . . ezek. . . eph. . . for the matter , gal. . . . philip . . , . tim. . . tit. . , . ) because thou hast spoke falshood in the name of the lord . with these , and other like words , sharp , and piercing , shall his father and his mother who begat him , as it were , pierce him thorow when he prophecieth . for thus , threatening words , sore and weighty reproofs , and indeed all doctrines , are said to cleave in sunder the hearts of those that hear them , act. . . and again , to goad or prick them by piercing , act. . . and the words of the lord , are said to be whet , deut. . . and are compared to a two-edged sword , psal. . , . isa. . . eph. . . heb. . . apoc. . . & . . and again to goads or nails , eccles. . . namely because they do ( as it were ) strike or pierce a man thorow . to which purpose that of solomon , prov. . . may well be alleadged . there is ( saith he ) that speaketh like the piercings of a sword , &c. where there is the same radix which is here in the text , and the meaning is , that there are some , who with sharp and heart-piercing words provoke those unto anger , to whom they speak ; as again there are wise men , who with soft words , pacific wrath , &c. a this is the best and fullest exposition of the place , that i can anywhere meer with amongst interpreters ; for the confirmation whereof , besides what the author himself abundantly citeth case that cometh to passe , which christ here commandeth us to take heed of , that is , the wheat is pluckt up with the tares ; which is an horrible sin before god , and can never be excused . here then consider , how madly we have gone to work , who would needs compell unto the faith , turks by war , heretiques by fire , jews through fear of death and other injuries , and pull up the tares by our own strength , as if we were a kinde of men by our selves , who had power over the hearts and spirits of men , and as if it were in our hand to bring men unto righteousness and true godliness . we by such a course , pull men quite away from the word , by slaying them , that it cannot work any thing upon them : and so , as much as in us lieth , we make our selves guilty of a double death , of that of the body , which we destroy by a death temporall ; and of the soul , which we thrust down into hell , so slaying it eternally , and then we boast , as if we had performed some speciall service unto god , and promise our selves a reward in heaven for it . well therefore may this place throughly terrifie those inquisitors after heretiques , and those murtherers , if they had not foreheads of iron , who make little or nothing of it to put men to death , for every errour so by them judged or esteemed , yea , though they had heretiques indeed to deal with . but now , themselves being the heretiques , they burn true saints . what is this , but to pluck up the wheat , whilest they pretend the pulling up of the tares , &c. a long before luther , austin expounded the same parable much after the same manner , carrying the scope and importance of it to the very same point : which exposition of austin , musculus in his comon places ( cap. de haeresi ) having at large rehearsed , concludes thus : haec augustinus : quibus contra occisores haereticorum parabolam zizaniorum convenientissimè , meo judicio , exponit . i. thus augustine , in which passage he expounds the parable of the tares , and that ( in my judgement ) most appositely and properly , against those that would have heretiques put to death . the same luther , elsewhere writeth , and argueth thus . that heretiques should be burnt is contrary to the will and minde of the spirit of god . this i prove , first , from the experience of the whole church , which from her first beginnings never burnt an heretique nor ever will burn any : it would be a strange thing , that in so many ages none should be burnt , if the spirit of god had declared himself for it . but [ the papists ] will say : john husse , and jerome of prague were burnt at constance . i answer , i speak of heretiques : as for john husse and the said jerome , they were orthodox men , they being heretiques , apostates , and antichrists disciples , ( as appears by what was formerly said ) who burnt them . in imitation of whose example , other murtherers also in other places , burnt and slew the saints of christ , amongst whom jerome savanorola , with those that followed him , may be numbred . secondly , from the scriptures , isa. . they shall turn their swords into plough-shares , and their spears into pruning books . and cap. . they shall not kill , nor hurt in all my holy mountain . and christ committed no manner of arms or weapons at all to his apostles ; nor did he injoyn any other punishment , then that he , who should refuse to hear the church , should be counted as an heathen , matth. . and the apostle , tit. . teacheth to avoid a man that is an heretique , but doth not command that he should be put to death , either by fire , or sword . and to the corinths he saith : there must be herefies , that those which are approved may be made manifest . but what will your holiness , most holy lord , here say ? luke . when the disciples would have brought down fire from heaven to destroy a city , christ restrained them ; saying , you know not of what spirit ye are the children . the son of man came not to destroy mens lives , but to save them : this is that which i have said , and now say again , christ himself being my master [ in it ] that they , who persecute men with fire , are not children of the good spirit . of what spirit then ? even of the evil spirit , who was a murtherer from the beginning . christ would not compell men by force or fire , to the faith . he gave the sword of the spirit , that the children of his spirit should fight with that . but for this sword of the spirit ( the word of god ) the pope with his popelings have laid it up in bench-holes amongst worms and moths , and are become stout hunters , and nimrods in the earth , who do whatsoever they please , in the name of the old caldean god , ur , or fire ; that so babylon the latter may in every thing resemble babylon the former : this babylon burnt the fore-fathers of christ ; the other , burns his children . the same god of them both , ur , or fire , always burns and rageth . but even these men themselves in their most sacred canons , prohibite armes unto clergy men ; and would have the church to pray effectually for the preservation of the life of a clergy man , when he is delivered to the secular judicatory . but by such discourse as this , they do but make a mock of the death of innocent men . for in the mean time , the pope , the prince of the clergy , with all the kings , make most bloody and cruell wars : yea , what havock and slaughters of men are there not made by his command ? when doth he not call in to him the secular arm , so terrifying the world with both deaths ? and yet the prime clergy man himself doth not bear arms , whilest he prays devoutly for those that are to be slain , and is earnest , that they may be dispatched out of hand , and that they be narrowly searched after , and found out in every corner of the world . o satan , satan , satan , wo unto thee with pope and papists , who so impudently disport your selves with the most sad and serious affairs of the church , and slay the souls of men with their bodies . b this pleaseth no good man in the true church , ( saith augustine ) that any man , though an heretique , should be put to death . a and elsewhere : love the men , and slay the errors be confident of the truth , without being cruel , b in another place , answering a certain epistle of an heretique , he saith thus : though the lord by his servants is wont to overturn the kingdoms of error , yet he commands the men themselves , in as much as they are men , should be rather amended , then destroyed . and soon after : it was our part therefore to wish and make choice of the better means , that so we might have an access & way to your amendments ; not by contention emulation , and persecutions ; but by gentle consolations , by loving exhortations , by soft and calm disputations ; as it is written , the servant of the lord must not strive but be gentle unto all men , apt to teach patient ; in meekness instructing those that are contrary minded , &c. and presently after : let those deal cruelly with you , who know not with what labour truth in found & with what difficulty errors are declined . let those be cruel towards you , who know not how rare and heroick a thing it is to overcome carnal phantasmes or imaginations , with the serenity & clearness of a pious minde . let those handle you with cruelty , who know not how difficult it is so to cure the eye of the inner man , that it may be able to behold the sun that was made for it : not that sun , which you worship in an heavenly body , wch glitters & shines in the fleshly eyes both of men and beasts : but the sun , of whom it is written by the prophet ; the sun of righteousness , is risen upon me , and of whom it is said in the gospel : he was the true light , which lighteth every man that cometh into the world : let those be cruel to you , who know not with what , and how many sighings and groanings , even a little knowledge of god is to be obtained . lastly , let those be cruell to you , who themselves are deceived with no such errour , as they finde you for the present deceived with . c and whereas it is commonly said , that austin afterwards reversed his opinion concerning the unlawfulness of proceeding against erroneous persons by outward violence ( a flie which mr. edw. also catcheth at in his antap. pag. . . ) it is true , he was somewhat over-perswaded by others ( as himself confesseth ) this way : but that which befals many wise men frequently , and in many cases , viz. to exchange , or make bargains to loss , might very possibly befal austin himself once . we know tertullian , a man of as great learning , as austin , miscarried after the same manner , and that once and again , in points of great moment . and though austin retracted his former opinion ( in part ) yet he never refuted , nor any man for him , nor is any man able to refute those grounds and reasons , upon which his former opinion was built ( as they were briefly touched in the last recited testimony ) in comparison of which ( all reverence and terms of honour reserved to so incomparable a man ) those , upon which he changed his opinion , in the judgement of any considering and dis-ingaged man , will be found for weight and substance very inconsiderable . moreover ( saith musculus ) he that is a christian , will attempt the correction or amendment of an heretique , with no other spirit , then the spirit of christ , which is a spirit of love , gentleness , humility , and beneficence . — his heart especially is to be moved and drawn ; which is sooner , and to better purpose done by services of love , and by a spirit of meekness , then by violence , or any clamorous disputation . d and elsewhere : i ( saith he ) altogether , and without all dissembling confess my self to be in the number of those , whom it much displeaseth , that whereas errours should be slain , men are slain [ in stead of them ] a the saying of melancthon is sweet and pious . whereas ( saith he ) the devil being set on fire with the hatred of god , to put reproach and dishonour upon him , hath alwaies , and still doth move light wits , to spread and scatter false opinions up and down , and it is much to be feared that in this utmost period of the old age of the world , there will be greater confusions of opinions then ever ; we ought therefore to strive , or fight , both wayes , viz. by prayer , and doctrine . b to conclude ( for testimonies ) calvin himself , who seems by his practise , to have sharpened first his own pen , and by both pen and practise to have sharpened the pens of all those protestant writers , who since his dayes have handled the subject , we all this while speak of , more roughly : seems notwithstanding , now and then , the truth rejoycing against his judgement , to pull down , what elsewhere he builds up , in this kinde , and to acknowledge a non-necessity , of proceeding against heretiques or erroneous persons in a way of outward violence or compulsion , if other means more proper for their suppression , were effectually advanced . therefore ( saith he ) as by the rising of the sun , the darkness is put to flight , and the true and distinct shape or face of all things appeareth : so when god appeareth , or riseth up in the world by the doctrine of his word , all the impostures whatsoever of satan must of necessity flee far away . c if errors and herefies , which are the first born of satans impostures , must of necessity avant far away , when god ariseth in the world in the doctrine of his word ; certainly if this word be but effectually preached , there will be no necessity of driving them away by fire and sword : except we mean thus to pursue them , after they are departed far away from us , as indeed the papists many times do ; who use to destroy the lives of those , that recant and abjure their errours , ( as they call errour ) as well as theirs , who persist obstinate . so that it is neither agreeable to the scope of the place , nor minde of the scripture elsewhere , nor to the sense of many orthodox interpreters upon the place , nor to the judgement of the chief modern writers of the protestant partie otherwise , to understand the phrase of thrusting through ( in the scripture in hand ) literally , or of thrusting through with sword , spear , or the like , unto death ; especially with relation to the churches of the gentiles under the gospel . and though some of our protestant expositors seem to carry it in such a sense ; yet the great crie of this interpretation , is heard out of the midst of rome ; iesuits and others , the children of that mother , thirsting after the blood of the saints , being with open mouth the great abettors and proclaimers of it . but , . whereas the latine translation reads , transfigent eum , and our english , they shall thrust him through , the septuagint readeth , {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} i. e. they shall joyntly tread upon him , or kick him with their feet ; which imports only a disgracefull , or disrespectfull carriage towards him . but , . ( and lastly ) if there be yet any place left for a further conjecture upon a difficult and obscure place ; ( for peremptoriness and magistrality , become difficulties no otherwise , then a full career the deepest ways : ) it may i conceive relate ( in the direct , and full import of it ) to those times of refreshing , which shall come from the presence of the lord , and of the restitution of all things , viz. to the jewish church and nation ; whereof peter speaks and prophesies , act. . . . and our saviour himself , mat. . . for i say unto you , yee shall not see me henceforth , till ye say , blessed be he that commeth in the name of the lord : and the apostle paul , rom. . . and so all israel shall be saved : and the prophet ieremie ( before them all ) but this shall be the covenant that i will make with the house of israel : after those days ( saith the lord ) i will put my law in their inward parts , and write it in their hearts , and will be their god , and they shall be my people . and they shall teach no more every man his neighbour , and every man his brother , saying , know the lord : for they shall all know me from the least of them , unto the greatest of them , saith the lord : for i will forgive their iniquity , and i will remember their sin no more , ier. . , . these , with many more passages of like tendencie and import in the scriptures , plainly shew , that god hath yet amongst the sealed treasures of his counsels and decrees , precious thoughts towards his ancient people , the nation of the iews ; purposing in his time to build them up again into a church of far more inward grace and holiness ; into a nation , of far more outward beauty , strength , and glory , then ever was their portion since they first became a church or nation , unto this day , either in the one kinde , or in the other . now then i conceive , that the intent and scope , of the prophet zacharie , in the first part of his . chapter , to the end of ver. . was to encourage and raise the faint spirits of that small remnant of his nation to whom he was sent by god with the message of this prophecie , by representing unto them , how glorious a church and nation god intended to make of them and their posterity in time ; and what a spirit , and rich anointing of zeal and holiness , and knowledge and purity of religion , should be found upon them in that day ; insomuch that no touch or tincture of idolatrie , no mixture of errour or false doctrine , should deface their beauty , or stain the brightness of their glory : yea , and that their zeal towards god , his law and truth should be so exceeding fervent and strong , that it shall command and subdue under it , all carnall , yea or naturall affections , dispositions , and desires , all other ends , purposes and intentions whatsoever . by the way this interpretation doth neither suppose or imply either that there will be any son , or child , that shall then prophecie lies amongst them ; or that parents whether fathers or mothers , should or would slay them , or thrust them through , in case they did ; but such expressions as these are figurative ( as we lately heard from mr. deodate , and our english annotations upon the bible ) taken from what was commanded against false prophets , deut. . that is , they only note or express , such a degree , measure , or intensness of zeal to the truth and puritie of religion , which god in his law commanded to be expressed by naturall parents , against their children , and by others against persons in neerest and dearest relation to them , in the case of seducement to idolatrie . now as the same degree , either of love , or hatred , doth not necessarily import a specificall indentitie or sameness of expression , but a generical only , viz. by way of equipollencie , or equivalencie , yea and this only , when there is occasion or opportunity : in like manner it is no ways necessary , that they who are as zealous for the truth and law of god , as those parents were , who in vindication thereof did lay violent hands upon their own naturall children , should act or express this their zeal , with the self same kinde of expression ( i mean , should slay their children also ) there being several other ways and kinds of expression , by which the greatest zeal for the truth and purity of religion whereof the nature of man is capable , may be proportionably declared and expressed , upon occasion . but for the interpretation of the place in hand , last mentioned and explained , there are these reasons , abundantly sufficient ( as i conceive ) to carry it . first , there is scarce any figure , or propriety of speech more frequent in the scripture , then to express a proper and particular sense by words importing another sense equivalent to it . thus god promiseth victories , and deliverances to his people , by saying , ( psal. . . ) i will bring again from bashan ; i will bring my people again from the depths of the sea ; meaning , that , as he had delivered their fore fathers from og , king of bashan , and given them victory in battell against him ; and had brought them out of the red sea , so delivering them from pharaoh , who pursued them ; so he would for the future deliver them from other their enemies , and give them victory and success against them . a thus he threateneth them with bondage and captivity , by telling them , that they shall return to egypt ( hos. . . ) now will he remember their iniquity ( saith the prophet ) & visit their sins : they shall return to egypt . in this figure , or phrase of speech ( to forbear further instances ) the apostle paul affirmeth , that , if any provide not for his own , especially for those of his own house , he hath denied the faith : b his meaning is not , that by such a neglective and ungracious course , he doth properly , or formally deny , or disclaime christian religion ; but , that he doth that , which is tantamont , or equivalent to such a deniall , in respect of the prejudice which is thereby like to accrue unto religion . secondly , it is a common observation among writers , that the holy ghost takes a delight to make the new testament and the old , as it were inter-commoners in language , and phrase of speech ; i. to express matters proper to the one , by words and phrases , which in propriety and strictness of sence , signifie things appropriate to the other . c thus malachi , prophecying of the worship of god under the new testament , expresseth it thus : my name shall be great among the gentiles , and incense shall be offered unto my name , and a pure offering , mal. . . and after , cap. . . he prophecieth of the ministers of the gospel , under the names of , the sons of levi : and cap. . . of john baptist under the name of elijah the prophet . but as none of these expressions , are in their literall , proper and grammaticall significations appliable to the times of the new testament ; no neither is it necessary , no nor so much as probable in the least degree , that the old testament , or lawphrase of parents thrusting thorough their children for prophecying lies , wherein our prophet expresseth and foresheweth the great zeal for truth and purity of religion which should be found in men , under the gospel , should be understood in the letter , or in the formall sence or signification of the words . thirdly , the context it self , and the series thereof , plainly shew , that the passage and prophesie in hand particularly relateth to these times specified , viz. wherein the receiving again of the jewish nation by god , shall be as life from the dead , d unto the world , and their church and state restored to seven times more then their ancient beautie and glory . for ver. . . & . of the preceding chapter , the prophet clearly describes that great and generall conversion of this people unto to god , partly by the causes or means of it , partly by the consequents or effects of it . and i will poure upon the house of david , and the inhabitants of jerusalem , the spirit of grace and of supplications , and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced , and they shall mourn for him , as one mourneth for his onely son , and shall be in bitterness for him , as one that is in bitterness for his first-born . in that day there shall be a great mourning in jerusalem , as the mourning of hadadrimmon in the valley of megiddon . and the land shall mourn , every family apart , the family of the house of david apart , and their wives apart : the family of the house of nathan apart , and their wives apart : the family of the house of levi apart , and their wives apart : the family of shimei apart , and their wives apart . and all the families that remain , ( viz. all besides these ) every family apart , and their wives apart . first , evident it is , that the tenour of the things here spoken , carries the scope and intent of the passage directly upon the nation and people of the jews , and doth not suffer it to be understood of any other . this needs no other proof ; except ( haply ) a second and more serious perusall of the words . secondly , as evident it is , that it relates , not to a remnant , or lesser part , but to the generality , or body of this nation . and the land shall mourn ( saith the prophet ) every family apart , &c. ( and again : and all the families that remain , &c. thirdly , and lastly , the expression , and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced , plainly implies , that this nation shall see and behold christ , viz. when upon their repentance ( implied , by the spirit of grace , and supplications poured out upon them ) he shall appear or come unto them , to raise up the tabernacle of david , which had been a long time fallen , and to build them up , both church and state , in excellency of beauty , strength and glory ; according to the express tenour of that grand motive , by which peter inviteth them to repentance , act. . , . . repent ye therefore , and be converted , that your sins may be blotted out [ {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} ] . i. not , when , as our translation hath it ) but , that , or to the intent that , times of refreshing may come ( not , shall come , as our english translation again mis-readeth it ) from the [ face , or ] presence of the lord . and that he may [ not , and he shall , as our english yet again mis-translateth , {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} ] send jesus christ , which before was preached unto you , whom the heavens must receive , untill the times of restitution of all things , which god hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began . so that the repentance and conversion of this people unto god , when , or how soon soever it shall take place , shall be immediatly , or soon after , rewarded by him , with the sending of his son jesus christ , their long expected messiah unto them , * {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , i. ( as the word properly imports ) to restore , or , re-constitute all things , [ viz. in their church and state ] as they were before , yet not formally , but eminently , and with abundance of superadded glory . upon this sight , or beholding of him ( viz , as coming or come unto them with this abundance of grace , and love , and mercy , who had for so many ages together so injuriously and despitefully intreated him ) shall ensue and follow , that most solemn , affectionate and unparalled mourning , viz for their strange , inveterate , and long continued unkindness , and hatred towards him , which our prophet describes , in the latter end of the transcribed passage ( which also is elsewhere foreshewed in scripture upon the same occasion ) a now having thus foretold the general conversion of this nation unto god , towards the end of cap. . he goeth on in the beginning of this chapter , and declareth , how happy , holy , and glorious the state and condition of this church shall be , upon , and after this their conversion ; and amongst other spiritual priviledges , wherewith it should be invested , inriched , and adorned ( mentioned , ver. . & . ) he shews that the zeal of this church , and people , for the truth and purity of religion , shall be signall , eminent , so as to reign over all inferiour ends , counsels , inclinations , and desires in men ; yea over all , even the nearest and dearest natural relations themselves , which are the hardest to be commanded , or brought into subjection . fourthly , it no where appeareth , either by the scriptures , or by any history of credit , nor is it in it self a thing any ways probable , or worthy belief , that ever the nation of the jews ( i mean , the main body , or generality of them ) were ever so zealously affected to the truth and purity of religion , since the time when this prophesie was uttered , as the tenour and import hereof seems to bear and require . nay , since the promulgation of the gospel in the world ( which is the time contested for by many , as wherein the said prophesie , was to take place and be fulfilled ) the generality of this nation hath been so far from any zeal for the truth , that they have been as violent and desperate opposers of it , as any other nation , or generation of men in the world . therefore ( doubtless ) the days appointed for the accomplishment of the prophesie in hand , are not yet come . fiftly , severall other of the prophets of god are wont in their writings , upon the like occasion , viz. for the incouragement of the church and people of god in their days being under any affliction or discouragement , yea , and otherwise , to re-minde them of the said jubilean times , which god hath in store amongst his treasures , for them and their posterities , and will bring forth and give into their bosoms in his appointed season . see esa. . & . chapters throughout . and again , isa. . , . and to the end . and yet again , isa. . . to the end . see also jer. . , . and to the end of the chapter . other places of like import , as very obvious , and frequent both in these and other prophets : yea , i conceive , that there is scarce any one of all the prophets , ( if any ) but in some place or other , casts an eye ( at least ) upon those times and days we speak of , though in some of them it be hard to discern where . the ground of my conception in this , is , that of peter formerly touched , where speaking of the times of a restitution of all things [ to the jewish nation , as was said ] he adds which god hath spoken of by the mouth of all his prophets , since the world began . sixthly and lastly , it seems by a brief touch which i finde in grotius commentaries upon the scripture in debate , that the exposition last propounded and hitherto argued for , was indeed the sence of the ancient rabbins , and jews themselves , how weak and inconsiderable soever it seems unto this author : for having delivered his own sence upon the words , as was formerly represented , he closeth thus , haec et alia quaedam stultè rabbini referunt ad tempus post resurrectionem . . these and some other things the rabbins fondly refer and apply to the time after the resurrection . what they may further mean by the resurrection , i am not able to say : but doubtless they include herein , or presuppose that happy and blessed estate of their nation , which peter cals ( as we have heard ) {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , the restitution of all things , and which hath been their earnest and constant expectation for many generations , and is not let fall by them to this day . by that which hath been taken into consideration in this discourse , to discover the minde of god in the scripture first proposed , it fully appears , that there is but a very slender appearance in it of any ground , ( if any at all ) whereon to build the lawfulness of any compulsory proceedings by way of civill penaltie , whether death , or other , against persons deemed erroneous , in these times of the gospel . this trumpet gives no distinct sound at all to prepare any man to that battell . but when men delight in war , the whistling of the wind will serve for a signall , it is the observation of an english divine , that the papists , where ever they meet with the word , fire , in the scriptures , they finde a proof for purgatory , a deceived heart ( saith the prophet esay , concerning the idolater ) hath turned him aside , that he cannot deliver his soul : a when men please themselves , and gratifie their affections with the belief of any conclusion , before they have seriously and impartially debated the truth of it : the shadows of the mountains will seem men unto them , for the guard and support of it : and on the contrary , the strongest men will seem but as the shadows of mountains unto them , for the eviction and dethroning of it . finis . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a e- a gen. . . b num. . . c num. . . d kin. . . e kin. . . f iohn . . g prov. . , . h revel. . . a no translation is simply authenticall , or the undoubted word of god . in the undoubted word of god , there can be no errour . but in translations there may be , and are errours . the bible translated therefore is not the undoubted word of god , &c. dr. featly in his treatise , intituled , the dippers dips , p. . . this treatise was printed with license , and since reprinted . or . times , long since the sitting of this present parliament ; no man , that ever i have heard of , finding himself agrieved in the least , at any of these expressions . * some of my accusers made it their most affectionate request , that my late book might be burnt by the common hangman a gal. . . b num. . . b pet . . c mar. . . d act. . . * a scurrilous pamphlet lately put forth , tam fine re , quam fine nomine , called , mo●o mastix . a ier. . . a ioh. . . mat. . . mat. . . &c. b mat. . , . notes for div a e- a rom ● . . b deut. . . see also mal. . ver. . compared with ver. . &c. a summa hujus capitis est brevis narratio tum praecipuorum dei donerum , tum etiam eventorum , quae in populo judaico . i. ecclesiâ dei contingere debebant ( ac reipsa contigerunt ) post instauratum à maccabaeis populi & ecclesiae statum , usque ad extremam urbis hierusalem obsidionem ac excidionem , quae cap. sequenti continetur . itaque ordinem temporis continet haec prophetia et aptè superiori capiti connectitur . ceterum commemorat , duo quae dam summa dei in ecclesiam seu iudeos , futura beneficia , nimirum peccatorum expiandorum rationem et expurgationem idololatriae a suâ ecclesiâ & templo lambe●tus danaeus , in zac. c. v. . see also hugo grotius upon the place . b luk . . a rom. . . b iob. . . a act. . . * act. . . b non quod tamen omnis falsa doctrina , illiusque doctor 〈◊〉 sit puniendus , &c. dan. in zach. a hoc intellige de pseudoprophetâ , populum volente abducere ad cultura falsorum deorum : nam in tales quemvis iudaeum lex armabat . deut. . . . quae lex expresse addit , in tali crimine , nec filio parcendum . hugo grotius in zach. . . a quid ? quod nec {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} id est , transfodit , semper significat ita transfixit , ut inde mortuus sit : siquidem expresse habetur apud ieremiam cap. . . reliqui essent ex eis homines transfixi , quisque in tentorio suo exurgerent , & comburerent civitatem hanc igne : quomodo etiam experientia testatur multos confossos supervivere , &c. et paulo post ; verum si omnino omnia proprie velis accipere etiam depsis parentibus , in suâ ipsorum personâ , correptiones , verbera , flagellationesque privatas in filiis immorigeris his esse concessas novimus , pro. . . heb . , &c. et si versum cum hoc volumus conferte , omnino cogimur hoc asserere , utrunque vocabulo configendi hic denotari , viz. primum praeire aspera verba : quibus si nihil proficiant parentes , ventum iri ad verbera , aliaq media duriora &c tarno●●us in zach. . . a sic autem futurum est , ut quum prophetaverit quispiam amplius ab illo spiritu impuritatis pellectus , dicaent ei , qui sunt ipsi à natura conjunctissimi , parentes scilicet , qui genuerunt cum ; non tantúm pater ejus , sed & mater ejus , cujus tamen in natos solet esse tenerrimus affectus , atque adeo studium naturale ac {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} suas pietatis studio subiicientes juxta christi monitum , mat. . . sententiam mortis ex lege dei proferant , atque illâ ipsum deterreant , exod. . . . sic comminantes , si ita perrexeris , non es victurus tandem apud deum , sed condemnaberis ( confer ezek . . & . . eph. . . quod ad phrasin , quod ad rem , gal. . , . phil. . , . tim. . . titum . , . ) quia falsitatem locutus es nomine iehovae , & his alilsque verbis durioribus velut transfigent eum pater ejus & mater ejus , qui genuerint eum , dum ita prophetat ipse , quomodo verba comminatoria aut graves reprehensiones aut doctrinae omnes dicuntur findere corda auditorum , act . . stimulare , ac pungendo penetrate , act. . & verba iehovae acui deut. . . unde & ipsa gladio ancipiti , psal. . . . isa . . eph. . . heb. . . apoc. . . & . . aculeis denique & clavis conferuntur , eccles. . . quod nimirum hominem velut transfigant , in quam sententiam huc merito adducimus illud salomonis prov. . . est qui pronunciat similia transfossronibus gladii , at lingua sapientûm medicinae . ubi eadem radix quae hic extat , in textu , & notatur , esse , qui verbis asperis cor ejus cui dicuntur , penetrantibus ad iram provocat , & esse sapientes , qui suis verbis blandis iram sedent . a proximum , doce mur quo modo habere nos debeamus erga illos haereticos ac falsos doctores : non extinguer●e eos & excindere oportet : aperte enim hic christus ait , sinite crescere utraque . solo dei verbo contra cos agendum est ita enim hac in re●evenire solet , ut qui hodie errat , cras possit redire in viam . quis novit quando dei verbum cor cujusquam attracturum sit ? si autem exuratur ; vel alias tollatur , impeditur , ne possit in viam reduci , verboque dei subducitur , ut perire cum necesse sit , qui alias potuisset errore liberari . tum evenit quod hic christus vult caveri , nempe triticum simul cum zizaniis evellitur . id quod horrendum peccatum est coram deo , neque unquam poterit excusari . hinc vero vide , ut male sant hactenus fuerimus , qui tureas bello , haereticos igni , judaeos necis metu & aliis injuriis voluimus ad fidem compellere , & zizania nostris viribus evellere , ac si nos ij essemus , quibus potestas esset in corda & spiritus , & in nostra manu ad justitiam & pietatem hominem revocare : quod si unus deus non faciat , manet perpetuo infectum . nos isto pacto vero homines potius à verbo avellimus , eos perimendo ne possit in eis aliquid operari , & duplicis necis , quantum in nobis est , nos reos constituimus : corporis , quod perdimus morte temporaria : & animae , quam in gehennam detrudimus morte afficientes aeterna , pestea jactamus obsequium nos praest●●sse deo , ac peculiare nobis pollicemur hinc in coelo praemium . iure igitur debebat hic locus inquisitores haereticorum , & homicidas illos , qui ob errorem quem libet , qui ipsis videtur , homines adeo facile mactant , si non esset illis frons ferrea , etiam si quando vere haeteticos , in manibus haberent , plane petterrefacete . nunc autem exurunt veros sanctos , & sunt ipsi haereti i. quod quid aliud est , quam evellere triticum , & pre se ferre evulsionem zizaniorum . luther . postill in dominic quint . post epiphan. b haereticos comburi est contra voluntatem spiritus . primum ab experientia totius ecclesiae probo , quae ab initio sui usque huc nullum combussit haereticum , nec aliquando comburet . ●●itum autem esset , in tot seculis non esse aliquos combustos , si voluntas spiritus hoc voluisset . at dicent ; constantiae johannes huss & hieronymus de praga exusti sunt . respondeo : ego de haereticis loquor , nam iohannem huss & hieronymum , viros catholicos combusserent haeretici ipsi & apostatae , & antichristi discipuli , ut ex superius dictis patet . quorum exemplum & multi alii homicidae imitati in diversis locis sanctos christi exusserunt , & occiderunt , inter quos hieronymus savanorola cum suis numerandus videtur . secundo , ex scriptura esa . conflabunt gladios suos in vomeres , & lanceas suas in falces . ejusdem . non occident , & non nocebunt in universo monte sancto meo . et christus apostolis nihil prorsus armorum commisit , nec aliam poenam imposuit , quam ut haberetur pro ethnico , qui ecclesiam non audiret , matth. . et apostolis tit. . haereticum hominem vitari docet , non occidi jussit armis vel igne . et ad cor. dicit : oportet haereses esse , ut qui probati sunt , manifesti fiant . sed quid hic dicet , domine sanctissime . sanctitas vestra ? luc . ubi discipuli volebant ignem de coelo deducere , & civitatem perdere , compescuit cos christus , dicens : nescitis cujus spiritus filii sitis ? non venit filius hominis animas perdere , sed saluare . hoc est , quod & ego dixi , & dico , christo magistro , cos qui igne persequntur homines , non esse beni spiritus filios : cuius tunc ? mali spiritus , qui erat homicida ab initio . christus non voluit vi & igne cogere homines ad fidem dedit ob id gladium spiritus , ut in hoc pugnarent qui sui spiritus filii sunt . at gladium spiritus , quod est verbum dei , dominus papa , cum suis papastris , subter scamnum inter blattas & tineas posuerunt , & rursum facti sunt robusti venatores , & nimrodi in terra , qui denuo in deo chaldaeorum , qui ur seu ignis fuit , omnia quae volunt , faciunt , ne quid babylon nouissima discrepet a babylone prisca : illa exussit patres christi , ista exurit filios christi , & utriusque idem deus , ur semper urit & saevit . sed ipsi quoque in suis sacerrimis canonibus prohibent clericis arma , & clericum fo●o seculari traditum volunt per ecclesiam efficacibus precibus redimi a morte . verum his verbis ludunt in mortibus innocentûm . nam interim ●apa clericorum princeps , cum omnibus regibus cruentissime belligeratur , imo quae strages non illius imperio fiunt ? quando non invocat brachium seculare , & morte utraque terret mundum ? et tamen interim clericus ipse primus non fert arma , dum efficaciter orat pro occidendis , dum instat , ne mors eorum differatur , ut in omni orbis angulo exquisitissime perquirantur . o satan , ô satan , ô satan , vae tibi cum papa & papistis , qui tam impudenter in rebus tam seriiis ecclesiae luditis , & animae cum corporibus occiditis . luther in assert . omnium articulorum per bullam leonis decimi damnatorum . artic . a nullis tamen bonis in catholica hoc placet , si usque ad mortem in quemquam , licet haereticum , saeviatur . aug. contra crescon. gram. l. . c. . b diligi te homines : interficite errores : fine superhia de veritate praesumi●e , fine sae●itia pro veritate certate . idem contra lit. pe til . l. . c. . c quanquam enim dominus per servos suos regna subverat erroris , ipses tamen homines , in quantum homines sunt , emendandos esse potius , quam perdendos jubet . et mo● nostrum enim fuit eligere et optare meliora , ut ad vestram correctionem aditum haberemus : non in contentione , & aemulatione , & persecutionibus , sed mansuere consolando , benevole hortando , leniter disputando : sicut : criptum est servum autem domini non oportet litigare , sed mitem esse adomnes , docibilem , patientem , in modestia corripi entem diverso santientes . et mox : illi in vos saeviant qui nesciunt cum quo labore verum inveniatin , et quam difficile caveanter errores . illi in vos saeviant , qui nosciunt quam tarum & orduum sit 〈◊〉 phantasmata piae mentis sere 〈…〉 superere . illi in vos saeviant qui nesciunt cum quanta difricultate sanctur oculus 〈◊〉 hominis , ut possit intueri solam suum non ist●● , quem vos col●●s coelesti corpore , ocalis carnels & hominum , et pecorum , fulgentem atque radiantem : sed illum de quo scriptum est per prophetam . ●rtus est mihi iustitiae sol ; et de quo dictum est in evangel●●● : erat lumen verum quod illuminat omnem hominem venientem in hunc mundum . uli in vos saeviant , qui nesciunt quibus suspiriis et gemitibus fiat , ut ex quantulacunque parte intelligi possit deus . i ostremo illi in vos saeviant , qui nullo tali errore decepti sunt , quali vos aeceptos vident . idem contra epistolam fundamenti , non longé ab initio . d deinde , correctionem haeretici molitur christianus , nullo alio quam christi spiritu , qui spiritus dilectionis est , mansuetudinis , humilitatis , ac beneficentiae . — movendum cum primis illius cor est : id quod benevolentiae officiis , ac spiritu mansuetudinis prius & utilius , quàm violentiâ vel verbosâ disputatione perficitur . musc loc. com. cap. de haeresi . a omninò citrà dissimulationem inter eos me esse fatetor , quibus admodum displicet , quod ubi interficiendi sunt errores , interficiuntur homines idem . ib. b cum autem diabolus ardens odio dei , vt cum contumeliá afficiat , semper impulerit , & impellat levia ingenia ad spargendas falsas opiniones , & in hac ultima senecta mundi majores confusiones opinionum fore metuendum sit , utroque modo pugnandum est , videlicet precatione & doctrina . pb. melancth. in ena● . symb. niceni . c sicut ergo folis exortu fugantur tenebrae , & apparet distincta rerum omnium facies : sic etiam ubi deus emergit per sui verbi doctrinam , necesse est procul faccessere omnes satanae imposturas . calv . in zach. . . a sensus est : sicut majores vestros liberavi ab ogo , cisque victorian contra illum dedi : item sicut eos eduxi , é mari rubro , eosque liberavi à persequente pharaone , eisque victoriam contrá illum dedi : ita etiam in posterum vos liberabo ab inimicis vestris , victoriamq : vobis contra illos dabo . piscator in psal. . . b tim. . . c quibus si quis explicationis uberioris gratiâ , id quoque velit subjicere , quod propheta de tempore novi testamenti loquens ad populum sub veteri , accommodet se ad eorum captum loquendi formulis , et tum notis utens quidem , sed longé aliter intelligens , respiciat ad legem ceremonialem , quae extat , deut. . . non improbabiliter hoc fieri posse colligimus . {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} in zach. . . d rom. . . * it is the opinion of some of the rabbins , that their messiah was indeed born ( according to the scriptures ) before the destruction of the second temple : and withal , that for their sins , he hideth himself for a time in the sea , and other desert places , untill they be worthy of his coming rab. ●osue . ben. levi. in taim . tract. sanedr cap. helec . and the iews have a proverbiall saying amongst them : that the days of hezebias have swallowed up the days of the messias . a revel. . . mat. . a isa. . . a second letter from a gentleman in the country to his friends in london upon the subject of the penal laws and tests. penn, william, - . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page 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(eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) a second letter from a gentleman in the country to his friends in london upon the subject of the penal laws and tests. penn, william, - . p. printed for j.s. and t.s. and to be had of most booksellers in london and westminster, london : . attributed to penn by wing and nuc pre- imprints. reproduction of original in the union theological seminary library, new york. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng test act ( ) dissenters, religious -- legal status, laws, etc. -- england. religious tolerance -- early works to . - tcp assigned for keying and markup - spi global keyed and coded from proquest page images - judith siefring sampled and proofread - judith siefring text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion a second letter from a gentleman in the country , to his friends in london , upon the subject of the penal laws and tests . licensed , april the th . london , printed , for j.h. and t.s. and to be had of most booksellers in london and westminster . . gentlemen , i am not much lifted up , or cast down at the news you send me , for that my letter should be liked by some , and as ill taken by others , is but the fate of all things offer'd to publick censure ; tho without vanity , the reasons are unequal . but before i enter upon that , you 'l give me leave to observe the humor of the party in the proverbs you sent me , that methinks looks so much like a green ribband , that it hardly becomes the fall of the leaf , they conceit they are under . you say , the usual answer to the letter is this ; there is a snake in the grass ; all is well that ends well , that a more moderate sort , allow it both witt and truth , but ill timed , considering the melancholy circumstances the church of england is under . to all this , you have here my answer , which i beseech you to communicate with that cander ; that you know has alwayes been the companion of my life . and for the proverbs , i must say first , that a wise sentence , may be sillily apply'd ; and next , i am apt to think that these are so ; for pray what is the snake , and where doe's it lie . a snake without a sting hurts no body , let it lie where it will ; and a snake with a sting is dangerous every where . now to find out who is the snake , let 's consider what 's the sting , the penal laws certainly ; and you are not ignorant who 's tayle they belong to . but to be sure they sting all that won't come to church , and that every where . for a man can't walk in his own land , mow his own grass , enjoy his own shop , barn , chamber , closet , chest or cubbard ; no not his pot , pan or skillet , but the snake will get into it , and when it has swept his fields and house clean with its tayle , by the teeth it draws him to its dark holes and dungeons for a further prey . the history of this snake out-does all the giants of the old world , and it had been happy it had perish't with it : wherefore liberty of conscience is so far from being the snake in the grass , that there is in it neither snake , teeth , sting , or grass to hide them . on the contrary , it spies out the snake , cuts the grass , ketches it , and pulls out the sting , that it may do no more mischief : 't is upon this principle that one party cannot hurt ' tother . and for the other proverb , 't is certain , all 's well that ends well , but for that reason all will end ill that begins so , without repentance . and such beginnings i call penal laws for religion , let who will make them , or use them . and i beseech god to touch the hearts of the church of england with a sence of this ; for his justice we can't corrupt . all parties as well as private persons will meet with their own from him ; 't is a decree as old as the world , stamp't in our natures , and prov'd by the records of all time , and god knows but too plainly in ours . but since these gentlemen are upon their proverbs , with their leave i will oppose a couple to them , and i hope a little better suited . let every tub stand upon its own bottom ; and a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush . these are the texts , i 'le now give you the comment . by the first , i mean , that the government should stand upon its own legs , and the church upon hers . the legs of the civil government , is the civil interest of the government , which is that of all the people under it , so that the government is obleiged to secure all , because all are for their own interest bound to secure it : for the church in question , of which all the people are not members , nor yet the greatest part , is a thing of another nature , and relates to another world , and christ has provided her another bottom , if she really makes his law the rule of her actions and authority . let every one walk as he is perswaded , was divine doctrine in st paul's time , and our glo●ying was to be in our selves , and not in another ; and we were to stand and fall to our own masters , and not judge , much less persecute others , no , not tares , for they were to grow with the wheat , ( tho never like to change their nature ) till the harvest , which our saviour interprets , the end of the world : and the apostle tells us , every one must appear before god , and give an account for the deeds done in the body ; so that you see the proverb is true , that every tub ought to stand upon its own bottom . for the other , 't is as obvious & reasonable in this case ; for why should it be taken ill that the poor fanaticks accept the liberty the church of england refus'd , and has driven them to such extreamities for . she would have them to stay till she can give what she would not when she had power to do it . nay , she has it still , & yet will not for a reason that exposes them more then before . but which way can she ensure it to them ? first , can they with honour or conscience refuse what they have sought , or reject that by declaration the church of england will not allow by law ? secondly , how are they assurd , while the church of england is by law secured , that by those very laws they shall not be ruin'd in the mean time ? is it not natural enough to expect at the hand of the king , that they will not , shall not have liberty of conscience ? and that at any rate , they shall conform thorowly , that will not at an other time conform at all , when they do it now only to bob the goverment ? but what is faction if this be not ? if conform , why just now ? if now , why not before ? if not before , why then now ? if things are the same , why are not they ? and if they are , that is , if their opinion of the discipline and ceremonies of the church be what it was , they can't be honest men and conform : they may set up for men of art , and managers , that have given by their own consciences such a proof of their skill ; but i should lament extreamly any dissenter in england should have so little wit or truth . and to be free , it would not look candid in the church of england , that gives her fear of poperies having the power to destroy others , for the reason of her keeping the penal laws on foot , if she takes it ill , that the dissenters are for the same reason for their repeal ; for she can't but think that popery actually has that power over them , by the oppertunity of the laws she will manintain to secure herself . so that light and darkness are not more opposite then the safety of the dissenters , and the reason the church of england gives for the keeping up the penal laws for her own . to remove this difficulty , and to make the methods of their security meet , has , god knows , been my only drift , that so false notions of preservation might not destroy us , when the means of our common safety are so obvious to us . the general and deep prejudices men entertain against popery will hardly suffer them to diliberate for their own benefit . if a ship be near a rock , i think the danger should not frighten away the masters wits , when he has most need of them for a common safety . i beg the gentlemen of the church of england but to think , and i am sure they will find me less criminal in my other letter to you : for is any thing truer then that the papists court a legal ease ? need they this , if they design force ? or were it worth their labouring ? again , cannot a law be made to fix liberty of conscience , that they shall as uneasily violate , as these the church calls her bulwark ? if the laws in question were defensive only , god forbid that i should attempt to lessen her security , i declare in the presence of god i would not ; but when they are offensive and destroying to other people , and those of the most peaceable principles , who have neither interest nor arts to defend them , she must pardon me if i oppose my self to their teeth and sting . it is also as true that her dissenters are of no use to her unless these shackles are taken off ; that if she does not fear liberty more then popery , she must yeild the point desired for their sake , because her own . that for every enemy she releases by it , she has an hundred friends to secure her against him. that she must remember she is but a part of the whole , and should not flatter her self with numbers not of her communion ; especially while they sleep with naked swords hanging by hairs over their heads , and so are made uncapable to serve her . again , pray , can she think that force becomes a gospel church ? that it is not using against popery what she accuses it for , and by it condemns her self ? is it not taking sanctuary in human strength instead of divine truth , that is al-sufficient to its own support ? that the laws that remain , secure the state , and if any be wanting , they may be added without keeping up the ball of vengeance by partial provisions , directed by one party , of the same people , against an other , under one and the same government ; for this is puzling , not serving government : nor can any be great , easie or successful where the heads and hands , that should make it so , are zealously disabled from that duty and service . it seems a day wherein god is pleased to make use of the necessities of men to effect what vertue and wisdom should have taught us long ago to have done ; agree i mean upon our civil common interest . and now we have a king , who has so gracious a regard to liberty , ( and that chuses to recommend himself by so honest , so tender and so equal a principle , and whose own party , tho they may want it most hereafter , do least need it now , and are the most feeble in number to make the use of it dangerous to the rest ) let us by no means loose the oppertunity of our own happiness . nor can the church of england refuse me my petition to her , but upon this single account , the insincerity of the king ; that must be her snake in the grass , that popery's at the bottom ; mark the end of this liberty ; all 's well that ends well : but this plainly implies my arguments to be good , and that if the king holds as he begins , we shall all be happy . le ts see then why he should not do so , tho it looks very ill in the high sons of the church to blow upon that honour they have so often and so highly recommended for our security . first , the king has given her his word to maintain her at his coming to the crown , and has now repeated it to her for the whole time of his reign , in the most solemn manner that was possible out of parliament , secondly , if he be willing , to turn this promise into a law at the repeal of those he would abolish when they meet , and that to be sure he is ready to do , there can be no room to doubt his sincerity . thirdly , he is compell'd to be sincere , for popery without him is but a name in england , and lives by him , and must otherwise expect to expire with him . so that if it were possible for the people of his communion to prevail with him to force his religion upon the kingdom , tho i think it as impracticable , as to set westminster-abby upon bow-steeple ; he must leave them to make satisfaction for the attempt in the next reign ; or conclude , he never intends his lawful heirs to succeed him : and they must take him for the worst of men to be guilty of an injustice and irreligion he has so often and solemnly , and earnestly spoken against . but if that were no security to us , yet the ruin of those that in all probability must follow that attempt , for whose sakes we suppose him to endanger us , would obliege him to the soft & obleiging methods he now takes . so that we have his honour , conscience , nature , and the security of his own party for ours . come , 't is disingenious to call liberty of conscience the snake in the grass , that like the balm of gillead cures the gaps and sores that time and private interests have made . and since he offers to confirm it by law , he only changes the secvrity , he does not destroy it ; and which is more she is a gainer by it : for whereas she is now the national religion by compulsion she will then keep her station by consent ; both extreams yeilding a preferrence to her , and so she is neither hated nor envied by them . i would have her further reflect , that the keeping the penal laws on foot will not answer the end she does it for , since she believes they will be suspended during the time she fears most , and of the next reign , she has no apprehension , and in the mean time she and the protestant dissenters have the hands . so that the only reason for maintaining them , is the awe they ought to give the papists in this kings time , and yet if what she suggests be true , that the papists aim at all , pray , how far will those laws awe them , that for that reason should rather aim at all . i say , what good will that do her , that must be the greatest argument of the force she fears they will use against her ? and if they have no such design , there is no reason to keep them in awe , but much to soften and engage them , that we may all meet upon our common civil bottom , and as one people with one heart fear god , after our own perswasion ; honour the king , according to our allegiance ; and love and serve one another as becomes the members of the great civil family of this kingdom . but some , you tell me , think it had been better the laws where repealed in a pro●estant king's reign , then in this ; but can any shew it is not fit in this ; for that 's the question . let us suppose ours were a protestant , and they were repealed accordingly . how could we assure our selves our next heir would not turn ; ay , the prince in possession ? and unless the principles of exclusion prevail'd , 't is clear the delemma would be the same , because the security upon that notion is uncertain . i confess it had been better for us , it had been done before his coming to the crown , but since he forgives us that deficiency , and offers to supply it , in ways the most assuring , why it should not be good to do it now i cannot imagine : it is to say , it is not fit to be done , when it is most fit to make us best with him . we will have him trust us , but we will not trust him , where his interest secures us . well , but you add , that it is generally agreed , the penal laws should he repeal'd , but not the tests . i must tell you , i do not agree with you in that fact ; for i hear there are divers schisms in the church about it : some for their repeal , and keeping of the tests : some for repealing neither : some for their repeal to papists only : some for dissenters only ; and a few for a general repeal of both ; so that the church is yet unresolved what to do : but i will attend the great question . for the penal laws , no matter if they go ; but if the tests be repealed too , the government is lost to the romanists ; for they may pack a parliament of their own religion , that in all probability will make it national ; and so liberty of conscience will not serve them , nor save us . you see i am fair in the objection , i le give you my answer as freely . i cannot imagine the councils that engage them to take a fair way , can lead them to be foul in it ; for that 's giving a pail of milk , and kicking it down with their foot . if they had number to chuse , or could be returned without it , they must naturally search the most durable means of their safety : now , that connot be making their religion national , both because they are not the two hundred and fiftieth man , and that the attempt would eternally ruin them with the kingdom , whose kindness , in a future raign , their discreeter conduct in this must secure . nor could any thing be so odious , faithless and immoral , then for them to attempt it ; for if ever they should teach the nation that arithmatick , that thirteen is more then three and twenty , they will make true prophets of those they have taken pains to prove false witnesses . but besides their discretion and interest , the kings faith is given us , for his whole raign , in his great and gratious declaration , that he will not exceed the bounds of liberty of conscience . by this , every party is secured with his in their religion and property ; and this tyes him against any concurrance with the people representatively , contrary to this made to them universally : we may assure our selves , he is not like to break it in either of those respects , since we don't think that will so easily become the religion of the kingdom , or that whilest the people are of another , they will chuse a representative of the roman communion . lastly , the law that shall repeal these laws , may be so drawn , as to make it impracticable to return a parliament that is not chosen ; as well as i dare say , it is below the glory of our king , to use ways so unlike the rest of his open and generous principles . my former argument was ad homenem , for , what ever the church of england men think , 't is certain , the answer they gave for a popish successor , we must trust god and do our duty , is still cogent . for if providence was strong enough to secure us then against our fears of such a successor , can an act of parliament , be a better defence to us now . i fear such are fallen from their faith , and change their devotion , for carnal securities . let us be all of a piece ▪ not hot and then cold ; one while for relying on providence , and another time jealous to death , and beating our brains for safety , as if there were no such thing as god in the world. the question is not about the king 's imposing his religion upon us ; for so i should have almost ador'd the gentlemen that left their imployments ; but whether we will not impose our religion upon the friends of his communion ; and this shows no bigottry in the king , that he gives all parties liberty to muster & exercise themselves according to their own principles , that he knows to be so very contrary to his : an odd way of advancing popery , especially by foul play . i wish any thing would satifie us . and yet after so gratious a declaration , both to church and dissenters , and that has so decent a regard to the concurrance of a parliament too , who can be displeased ? have we been hunting , hawking gaming , and marrying with roman catholicks these six and twenty years ! and did they engage on the same side for the king's father , help to support the king abroad , and labour the restoration of the royal family to their inheritance ; and are we now afraid of them for the religion they had then , or that they should have a few offices with us , in the reign of a prince of their own way , that were the companions of our sufferings and pleasures ? methinks it looks ill natur'd at all times , and indiscreet at this ; since 't is certain we may roundly and securely tell them , you are upon your good behaviour : be moderate at your perril : you are but a morfel of men ; and therefore as little feared as loved : 't is in your own power to be well with the kingdom : know when you have enough ; and let us see you aim at no more then securing your civil property and interest in that of the nation , from any violence , on the score of religion , and that meer matters of faith and worship of god shall disable no man of his birth-right . this bottom is broad enough for all the interests of this kingdom to meet upon ; and till god from heaven send us with miracles an higher principle of union ; let us not neglect this lower , but sure means of our peace and happiness . to conclude , let us have a care of the snake every where ; in the grass , in the square , in the coffee-house , in the church , ay , and in the meeting-house too ; for 't is ill company at all times , and in all places . let us remember that not only the four , but the seven last raigns have prov'd penal laws an enemy to the peace and wealth of the kingdom , and the strictest tests no security to the government of it against the weight of its own miscarriages . let us forgive one another , and look forward . i am for having the church of england keep the chair , but let the rest subsist . to fix government upon any mode of religion , convulses it as often as that changes , at least hazards it . that which takes in all interests is the best foundation for any government , because it is least exposed to state contingencies . let us then bend our thoughts towards such an expedient as may secure property to all , the first reason of civil government , and that which every party for its own interest must close with . three things strictly speaking make an english man ownership , consent in parliament , and right of juries . we all know what laws have been made , and by whom to destroy these several capacities , that frame an english man ; amongst which , pray let not that against conventicles go for the least ! let us see then what it is that divests us of these native priviledges , and like true english men , & christians , let us remove it ; that in the raign , of a king so ready to disapoint the enemies of his glory , by repairing the breaches of his people , and of the old true civil government of his kingdom , we may not be wanting to our selves and our posterity , in another great charter , to bury all our prejudices , and establish a lasting civil union among the inhabitants of this ancient and famous kingdom . yours more then my own . finis . the case of compulsion in matters of religion stated by g.b. ; addressed to the serious consideration of the members of the church of england, in this present juncture. burnet, gilbert, - . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing b estc r ocm this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) the case of compulsion in matters of religion stated by g.b. ; addressed to the serious consideration of the members of the church of england, in this present juncture. burnet, gilbert, - . [ ], p. printed by t.s. ..., london : . attributed by wing and nuc pre- imprints to burnet. reproduction of original in the union theological seminary library, new york. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng religious tolerance. liberty of conscience. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - apex covantage keyed and coded from proquest page images - andrew kuster sampled and proofread - andrew kuster text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion the case of compulsion in matters of religion stated . by g. b. addressed to the serious consideration of the members of the church of england , in this present juncture . licensed august . . london , printed by t. s. in the year . the case of compulsion in matters of religion stated . all persecution rises out of an impatience of spirit , which makes a man less able to bear contradiction ; there is a tyranny in most mens nature , which makes them desire to subdue all others by the strength of their understandings , and such men have an implacable hatred to all that do not render themselves to their reasons , and think that they are affronted when other men refuse to submit to them ; so that he who would strike at persecution in its root must begin here , and endeavour to soften men , especially toward those who differ from them in matters of religion . this imperious temper , when it works upon subjects of religion , finds somewhat to raise its spleen , that was of it self impetuous enough before , and that which is called fury and rage , when it is imployed in other disputes , comes to be called zeal when it is turned toward the theories that relate to another world . but when we consider what a sublime thing divine truth is , and what a poor low thing the mind of man is , we shall see cause to blunt alittle the edge of our spirits if they are too sharp in such matters . man is much governed by fancy , and fancy follows the texture of the animal spirits , which renders many more capable of apprehending objects that are some way proportioned to them , and more disposed to follow them ; so that temper prepares men for some opinions , and prepossesses them against others . with the greater part of mankind education is so powerful , that they are scarce ever able to overcome it ; and if education and temper have hit together , it will require a very extraordinary elevation to rescue a man from that force . men likewise receive with their impressions of religion such a respect for them as makes them look on every thought that calls them in question as criminal ; and when persons are bred up to disquiet themselves with scruples , if they have so much as made a doubt of their religion , it is not hard to see them adhere so firmly to the principles of their education ▪ which stick so fast to the worst sort of men , that even atheists themselves , after all the pains they take to get rid of them , cannot shake them off so entirely , but that they will be apt to return oft upon them . men that think much , and that reason well , that are freed from the byass that interest , honour , kindred , and custom do give them , and that have leisure to examine matters carefully , may indeed get above all these ; yet there are so few that can do this , and there are yet so much fewer that will do it , that it is rather a wonder to see so many change their persuasions , than to see so few do it . and indeed it is so sublime a theory to think on god , and his attributes , and works , or to think of another state , and of the way that leads to it , that till god furnishes out a new mission of apostles with a measure of those extraordinary gifts which he poured out on the great pentecost , it is not easie to imagine how the conversion of heathen nations should be made , for though the idolatry of some of these is extreme gross , yet their priests have such symbolical significations for all these rites , that they do much diminish the horror which is raised by the first sight of them in the minds of strangers : and since the chief grounds upon which we prove the christian religion are taken from the prophecies of the old testament , and their accomplishmene in the new ; from the evidence that was given concerning the miracles , the death , and the resurrection of christ , which we confirm from the collateral proofs of the state of that time , of the writings of the enemies of this religion , and of that succession of authors , that in all ages which have past since , have mentioned those matters , and cited the books which we hold divine . all this is so evident to those who can make the enquiry , that it is strange to find how any one can withstand it ; but to barbarians who know nothing of it , and who have no way of informing themselves concerning it , all this can signify nothing , so that in order to the convincing of their understandings , for i do not treat of gods secret methods in touching their consciences , i do not see how we should expect that they should yield easily , unless there were a new power of working miracles conferred on those who labour in this work . but to return from this digression , a man is scarce the master of his own thoughts : habit , constitution , and other things do so concur , that he cannot open his eyes to new objects , nor see them in a new light , other than that in which he has been accustomed to view them , and a man can no more change his notions of things , because a set of new opinions would accommodate him better , than he can change the relish that his senses , his ear or his taste have in their objects ; a man may prevaricate , but still he thinks as he thinks , and cannot think otherwise because he would have himself do so . but if a man is not the master of his own mind , much less is any other man the master of it . no man has that superiority over any other mans reason as to expect that it should always accommodate it self to his ; and the severest exercise of tyranny must still leave the thoughts at liberty ; the forcing of a man to say or do otherwise than he thinks , by threatnings , the execution of which is above his force to endure , is only the delivering over such a person to the rack of his own conscience here , and to all those miseries hereafter , which must be the portion of hypocrites , and of dissemblers with god or man. nor is there such infallible distinction in one mans nature from another , that the one is more likely to be in the right than another ; since therefore among all those that differ , some must be in the wrong , those that have the power in their hands may possibly be of the wrong side , and in that case all their severity is turned against the truth , and those who believe it . and since god makes the sun to shine , and the rain to fall on the just as well as on the unjust , gideons reasoning may be applied to this matter , if baal is as god let him plead for himself ; and the force of gamaliels argument that , if it is of men it will come to nought ; and if it is of god we must not fight against him ; as it silenced an assembly of very fierce persecutors , so it is full as strong now as it was then : for reason is eternal , and changeth not . it seems also plain that those actions which concern humane society belong indeed to the authority of the magistrate ; but that our thoughts , with relation to god , and such actions as arise out of those thoughts , and in which others have no interest , are gods immediate province , and can belong to no other jurisdiction ; god only knows our thoughts , as he alone can change them ; so that a magistrate by encroaching upon them , breaks in upon gods propriety , and upon that essential right of humane nature of worshipping god according to our conviction , which is in us antecedent to all humane government , & can never be subject to it . but if the general theories from the nature of man give a very favourable view of what is now advanced , the characters of the christian religion , and the many express texts that are in it should determine this matter more positively . the religion revealed by moses consisted in temporal promises , an earthly canaan , and all the blessings of this life ; so that since the jews had all these things by vertue of that covenant , it was very reasonable that a violation of that law should infer a forfeiture of all those rights that the jews held by vertue of it ; and therefore it was as just that a jew should have been put to death for the violation of those laws , as it is lawful for us to put a man to death that coins or clips money . yet as for opinions the case was different even among the jews ; and therefore though the doctrines of the sadducess struck at the foundations of all religion , the pharisees when they had the upper-hand never carried the matter so far as to proceed to extremities against them . but what severities soever might have agreed with the mosaical dispensation , they seem to be all out of doors under the christian religion , which gives us no earthly canaan , no temporal blessings , nor the rules for civil society . but having found the world in the possession of their temporal rights , it only came to superadd to those the doctrines and rules of a divine discipline , upon which the happiness or miseries of another state do depend . now it seems to be an uncontested rule in justice , that in whatsoever society one is engaged , the violation of the laws of that society can only inser a forfeiture of all that one had or might have expected by vertue of it ; but this cannot be carried so far as to make one forfeit all that he holds by vertue of any other society to which he belongs ; and therefore since we hold our temporal estates and liberties not by vertue of our christianity , but as we are the members of the state or kingdom to which we belong , our doing any thing that is only contrary to our religion may well make us forfeit all that belongs to us by vertue of our baptismal covenant ; but this ought not to be carried so far as to cut off those rights that we have antecedent to our christianity , as we are men , and the subjects of a civil government . our saviour confirmed all this by saying , that his kingdom was not of this world , that he came not to destroy but to save ; and by giving this rule of justice , of doing to others that which we would have others do to us ; which would soon let all persecutors see how differently they act to it ; but above all , our saviour has made the doctrines of meekness and charity such main ingredients in his gospel , that he has made them the characters by which his disciples may be every where known ; and this spirit of love is so diffused through the whole writings of the new testament , that how hard soever it may be to understand some of the other passages that are in them , yet there is no ambiguity at all in those that set this forth ; we are not only restrained from ruining those who differ from us , but we are required to love them , to bear with them , and to deal with them in the spirit of meekness . there are some of the epistles that do not mention several of the duties incumbent on christians , yet there is not one , how short soever , in which this of love is not proposed in terms that are both strong and tender ; and while the church of corinth was almost rent asunder by a variety of opinions , and by the different parties that followed the several teachers that had been among them , st. paul does not enter much into the grounds of their disputes , but recommends love and charity to them , in terms that shew how much he himself was inflamed while he writ them ; and he is carried into all the raptures of a divine eloquence that so transporting a subject could inspire . st. iohn lived so long as to see a great deal of the first fervor of the christian religion slacken ; but when he writ to revive that spirit , the argument upon which he dwells chiefly , is , to persuade all to love one another , and he does that in the softest and most melting language that can be imagined . the controversie concerning the obligation that lay on the gentiles for obeying the mosaical law was judged by the apostles against the judaizers , and the inferences that depended on that controversie were such , that st. paul says , they went so far as to make void the death of christ ; yet the same apostle is gentle to those that without seeing the extent of those consequences were carried away by those judaizers ; so that he acknowledges that in their observing them from a good motive they were acceptable to god , and that as the kingdom of god , or the gospel , consisted not in those scrupulous distinctions of meats and of drinks , but in righteousness , peace and joy in the holy ghost ; so he adds , that every man was to endeavour to be fully persuaded in his own mind , and was not to judge his brother in such matters , but to leave him to the judgment of god. this way of managing a controversie that was of such importance , and that was maintained with so stiff an opposition , even to that extraordinary authority that was lodged in the apostles , ought to have been the measure upon which all the succeeding ages of the church ought to have formed themselves ; and when the apostles that had an infallible assistance , and so might have spoken in a strain of higher authority than any that have come after them , yet thought fit to treat of those matters in such an humble and softning stile ; those who cannot ▪ pretend to such a direction ought not to take upon them to dictate , and to threaten and destroy those who differ from them . the christians did during the first ages declare highly against all cruelties on the account of a difference of persuasion in matters of religion ; and though their interest naturally led them to this , yet we pass a very hard judgment on those times , if we think that they were only of that mind because the power was then in the hands of their enemies . when the empire turned christian , the very heathen worship was not only tolerated for above a whole age together , but the heathens themselves continued to be in the chief imployments of the empire ; and it is pleasant to see how the heathens that had so long persecuted the christians , and that had contrived the severest of all persecutions under iulian , which very probably had been put in execution if he had returned victorious from the persian expedition , saw the state of things no sooner altered than they began to imploy all their eloquence in the behalf of toleration ; as if liberty of conscience had been an essential right of mankind , from which they ought never to be cut off ; and they carried this-so far as to pretend , that a difference in religion tends more to the honour of god , than an uniformity in it could do , and so they fancied that a variety in it was acceptable to god. the first severity that christians practised one upon another was the banishing of arius , and a few of his followers : it must be acknowledged that this seems to be the utmost extent of civil authority in those matters : for certainly a government may put such persons out of its protection that are enemies to its peace , and so banish them upon great occasions , giving them leave to sell their estates , and to carry away with them all that belongs to them ; yet this being all that any humane government can claim , it ought not to be applied too easily or rashly , till it is visible that all other means are ineffectual , and that the publick safety can be no other way secured : but though this severity against arius had no great effects , yet the arians had no sooner the power in their hands than they put in practice first all the contrivances of craft and fraud , together with many less crying violences under constance ; and they carried this afterwards to a more open persecution under valens ; and after that , both in spain and africk , it appeared that a cruel spirit was so inherent in that party , that it shewed it self as often as they had power ; but while valens persecuted in his division of the empire , it is observed , that valentinian his brother thought it was enough to support the orthodox without persecuting the other . gratian carried the matter further , and tolerated both almost equally . and in the happy turn under theodosius , at what pains was st. gregory nazianzen to restrain the orthodox from retaliating upon the arians the ill treatment that they had suffered from them ; and not only the novatians , but even the arians continued to have their churches in the imperial cities . the first instance of imploying the secular arm against hereticks that was set on by any of the orthodox , was under the reign of that bloudy tyrant maximus , and it was managed by two such scandalous bishops , that their ill lives is no small prejudice against every thing that is carried on by such instruments . this was condemned by the best bishops of that age , and the ill effects of that severity are very copiously marked by the historian . one is unwilling for the sake of those ages to reflect on the rigour that appears in some laws that are in the code , yet the mild behaviour of atticus , proclus . and some other bishops , is marked with the praises that were due to it ; and it is probable , that those laws were rather made to terrifie , than that they should be executed . the donatists , after a contest of above years continuance , that was managed at first more gently , grew at last so fierce and intolerable , that not being contented with their own churches , they broke in upon the churches of those of the unity , and committed many outrages on the persons of some of the bishops , putting out the eyes of some , and leaving others for dead . the bishops upon that consulted whether they ought to demand , not only the emperors protection , but the application of the laws made against hereticks to the donatists . st. austin and some bishops opposed this for some time , but they yielded at last , and these laws were so severely executed , that not only the donatists themselves complained heavily of them , but st. austin in several letters that he writ to the magistrates upon this occasion made the same complaints ; he interceeded very earnestly for the donatists , and said , that it detracted much from the glory of the church , that had received so much honour from the sufferings of the martyrs , to see others suffer upon the account of the church ; and he told them plainly , that if they did not proceed more moderately the bishops would suffer all that could come upon them from the rage of the donatists , rather than complain any more to those who acted so rigorously . yet though st. austin condemned the excesses of the civil magistrates in some particulars , he set himself to justify severity in general , when it was imployed upon the account of religion ; and all the moderate pleadings for liberty that are to be found either in tertullian , cyprian , and more copiously in lactantius , with relation to heathens , and the like reasonings that are to be found in athanasius , hillary and lucifer with relation to the persecutions of the arians , were in a great measure forgot ; st. austin had a heat of imagination that was very copious which way soever he turned it , and this was imployed chiefly in allegorizing scripture , so as to bring together a vast number of proofs for every cause that he undertook ; without troubling himself to examine critically what the true meaning of those passages might be : and he is so apt to run out in all his reasonings into excessive amplifications , and into all the figures of copious and uncorrect eloquence , that it is no wonder to find that passage of our saviour in the parable , compel them to enter in , with some other places misapplied on this occasion . with that father the learning of the western church fell very low , so that his works came to be more read in the succeeding ages than the writings of all the other fathers ; and in this , as in other things , men that knew not how to reason themselves , contented themselves with that lazy and cheap way of copying from him , and of depending on his authority . the incursion of the northern nations that overthrew the roman empire , and those polishings of learning and civility that fell with it , brought on a night of ignorance that can scarce be apprehended , by those who have not read the writings of the following ages ; superstition grew upon the ruins of learning , and eat up all . the fierce tempers of the northern people being mufled up in ignorance , and wrought on by superstition , were easily leavened with cruelty , till at last heresy came to be reckoned the greatest of all crimes ; and as it condemned men to everlasting burnings , so it was thought that those might be well anticipated by temporary ones of their kindling . zeal against heresy was extol'd as the highest act of piety toward god ; and since heresy is reckoned by st. paul among the works of the flesh , it seemed as just to punish it in the severest manner , as it was to punish any other works of the flesh ; and since all hereticks were looked on as persons damned , all tenderness toward them , and pity for them , was as far extinguished as was possible . for a false religion will not easily have the better of good nature so entirely as to root it quite out ; all the room that was left for good nature , was the favourable definition that was given of heresy ; by which obstinacy was made its peculiar character that distinguished it from error , which lies in a more innocent mistake in divine matters . and as many have explained this obstinacy , it amounts to a continuing in error after one is convinced of it . this notion of heresie , which has been received by many of the greatest of men , even of the church of rome it self , seems to agree well with that of st. paul's ranking heresie among the works of the flesh ; for if it is meerly a mistake in the judgment in which one continues because he cannot overcome his persuasion , nor see reasons strong enough to oblige him to change his mind , such an adhering to error may be called any thing rather than a work of the flesh. but if a man from a principle of interest , pride , or discontent , either throws himself into ill opinions , or continues in them after his mind is better inlightned , so that he stifles and denies that inward conviction ; then the reason is very plain why such an ill temper of mind should be reckon'd a work of the flesh , because it plainly arises out of a depraved nature . i will not here enter into so troublesom an enquiry as it would be to examine how far an erroneous conscience acquits one before god ; for that must be left to him who will judge every man according to his works , and who best knows how far he will accept of a general repentance of unknown sins , and of a general act of faith. even of truths that are yet unknown ; but as for the judgments of men , certainly when the other parts of ones life make it clear , not only to a judgment of charity , but even to that of discretion , that he is sincere , and that he means well , it is hard to know when he is obstinate , and when his errors become heresies , that is to say , works of the flesh. so far have i been led upon the consideration of the spirit of persecution , that is not only warranted by custom , and a long continued practice , but by laws , councils , &c. i am carried next into a scene of thoughts that are more particularly suited to the doctrines of the reformed churches ; and here it must be acknowledged that persecution is a more justifiable thing according to the principles of the church of rome , than it is according to our tenets ; for the church of rome that pretends to be infallible , has a better right to demand a blind submission from all its subjects , and to treat those roughly who refuse to grant it , than a church that pretends to nothing but a power of order and government ; and that confesses , she may be mistaken . our being subject to error is unreasonably urged , when men would carry it so far as to make us doubt of all things ; yet it ought at least to have this effect on us as to keep us from being too ready to judge hardly of those who are of another mind , or to use them roughly for it ; since it is possible that they may be in the right , and that we may be mistaken ; at least they may have very probable reasons for their opinions , which if they do not quite justifie their mistakes , yet do very much excuse and lessen them . it is likewise visible , that all severe proceedings upon the diversity of opinions how effectual soever they may be on base-minded men , who will always make shipwrack of a good conscience when it comes in competition with the love of this present world , yet work quite contrariwise on men of awakened understandings and generous souls ; instead of gaining on such persons , these inspire them with horror at a sort of men who go about to ruin companies of people that never did them hurt . it is from this that those violent hatreds arise among men of different persuasions . every man is not capable to understand an argument , or to be much disturbed at it ; and though divines that carry their speculations farther into the consequences of opinions , whether real or imaginary , grow hot and angry at one another upon those heads , yet the people understand them little , & feel them less ; but every man feels an injury , & nature makes her inferences very quick upon it , & concludes that those who use us ill hate us ; & there must be a great degree of regeneration to keep men from hating those that hate them . upon this arises all the animosity that is among the several parties ; for every one reckoning himself a member of that body to which he associates himself , thinks that he is obliged to resent all the injuries that are done to his fellow-members as much as if they were done to himself in particular ; and by the same natural logick he casts the guilt of the wrongs done his own party , not only on those individuals of the other party from whom they did more immediately arise , but upon the whole body of them ; and so here is a war kindled in mens breasts ; and when that is once formed within , it will find some unhappy occasion or other to give it self a vent . those who are ill used ▪ are in a state like that of a mass of humors in the body , which ●●●ul about less perceived till some unlucky accident has weakened any part of it , and then they will all discharge themselves on the part that suffers . men that are uneasie naturally love changes ; for these are like the shifting of postures , that give some present ease , and they flatter the patient with the hope of more to follow . persecution is not only hurtful to those that suffer many hard things by it , but is likewise mischievous to them by the aversion that it inspires in them to those at whose hands they suffer , by the ill habit of mind into which it throws them , and by those violent projects and convulsions which do very naturally come into the heads of those , who as they feel much , so they fear yet more . those that do persecute , though they seem to triumph a while with the spoils of their enemies ; yet will soon feel how this sinks their credit extreamly among those that were more indifferent spectators , while the debate was managed with the pen or tongue ; but they will certainly take part at least in their compassions with the miserable , and will be disposed to think ill not only of those men that are heavy upon their harmless neighbours , but even the cause it self , that is supported by such methods . the multitude even of the lowest order of men has a remnant of good nature left , which shews it self in the sad looks that all put on at the execution even of malefactors : but if a false religion has not quite extinguished humanity in its votaries , this will make a more sensible impression , when men that have done nothing amiss , and are only in fault because they cannot help thinking as they do , are made sacrifices to the rage of others , that perhaps have little more to say for themselves but that they are in possession of the law ; which in the next revolution of affairs that may fall out will be an argument so much the stronger for using themselves in the same manner , because it is a just retaliation on them for that which they made others to suffer . in short , persecution does extreamly vitiate the morals of the party that manages it ; the worst men , so they are furious and violent , are not only connived at , but are even courted , and men otherwise of severer morals will insensibly slacken , by reason of their engagements with vitious men , whom they will find themselves forced to cherish and imploy ; and if those who have persecuted others fall under a reverse 〈◊〉 fortune , and come to suffer themselves a little of that which they made others feel , as their ill behaviour , will deprive them in a great measure of those compassions that would otherwise work towards them , so it will raise within them many uneasie reflections upon their own actings , which will prove but melancholy companions to them in their afflictions ; and these will force them to conclude , that because they shewed no mercy therefore they now meet with the requital of judgment without mercy ; which how unjust soever it may be in those by whom they suffer , yet they will find it meet to look up to god , and to confess that just and righteous are all his ways . and the returning the severities we have suffered at the hands of any , is a practice so contrary to the christian religion , and to the principles of the protestant religion , that i do not stick to say it , that i had rather see the church of england fall under a very severe persecution , than fall to persecute others ▪ when it should come to its turn to be able to do it . the former will 〈◊〉 serve to unite us among our selves , and to purge us from our dross , and in particular , from any of the leaven of the doctrine of persecution that we have not yet quite thrown out ; but the other would very much slain the purest and best constituted church in the world ; and it would be too near an approach to that cruelty which we cannot enough detest ; but how much soever we may hate their corruption ▪ we must still remember that they are men and christians , though perhaps of a course grain , and that we our selves are reformed christians , who in imitation of our blessed master must not render evil for evil , but overcome evil with good . g. b. finis . the christian moderator. third part. or, the oath of abjuration arraign'd by the common law and common sence, ancient and modern acts of parl. declarations of the army, law of god and consent of reformed divines. and humbly submitted to receive judgment from this honorable representative. christian moderator. part birchley, william, - . this text is an enriched version of the tcp digital transcription a of text r in the english short title catalog (thomason e _ ). textual changes and metadata enrichments aim at making the text more computationally tractable, easier to read, and suitable for network-based collaborative curation by amateur and professional end users from many walks of life. the text has been tokenized and linguistically annotated with morphadorner. the annotation includes standard spellings that support the display of a text in a standardized format that preserves archaic forms ('loveth', 'seekest'). textual changes aim at restoring the text the author or stationer meant to publish. this text has not been fully proofread approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. earlyprint project evanston,il, notre dame, in, st. louis, mo a wing a thomason e _ estc r this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (thomason tracts ; :e [ ]) the christian moderator. third part. or, the oath of abjuration arraign'd by the common law and common sence, ancient and modern acts of parl. declarations of the army, law of god and consent of reformed divines. and humbly submitted to receive judgment from this honorable representative. christian moderator. part birchley, william, - . [ ], p. printed by j.g. for richard lowndes at the white-lyon in s. pauls-church-yard, london, : . signed at end "will. birchley", the pseudonym of john austin. title page and a v in red and black. the words "common law .. divines." are bracketed together on title page. annotation on thomason copy: "july. ". reproduction of the original in the british library. eng religious tolerance -- england -- early works to . oaths -- england -- early works to . a r (thomason e _ ). civilwar no the christian moderator. third part. or, the oath of abjuration arraign'd by the common law and common sence, ancient and modern acts of par birchley, william c the rate of defects per , words puts this text in the c category of texts with between and defects per , words. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - aptara keyed and coded from proquest page images - emma (leeson) huber sampled and proofread - emma (leeson) huber text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion the christian moderator . third part . or , the oath of abjvration arraign'd by the common law and common sence , ancient and modern acts of parl. declarations of the army , law of god and consent of reformed divines . and humbly submitted to receive jvdgment from this honorable representative . esay . . . . dissolve the bonds of iniquity , take off all heavy burthens , break every yoke , and let the oppressed goe free . then shall your light break out as the morning , and your health spring forth speedily : your righteousnesse shall go before you , and the glory of the lord gather you up . london ▪ printed by j. g. for richard lowndes at the white-lyon in s. pauls church-yard , . the oath of abjvration arraign'd , &c. die sabbathi . . augusti . be it ordained by the lords and commons assembled in parliament ; that all such persons , as being of the age of one & twenty years or above , shall refuse to take the oath hereafter expressed , which oath any two or more of the said committees for sequestration in every county , city or place respectively , or any two iustices of the peace , or the major , baliffs or other head officer of any city or town corporate shall have power to administer to any such person or persons , shall forfeit as papists within this and the former ordinances , and seizure & sequestration of two third parts of all their goods and estates reall and personall , and sale of such proportion of their goods , so seized and sequestred , shall be made , and their rents and estates disposed of , in such manner and proportion , and by such persons , as by the said ordinance of sequestration is appointed for papists . the tenor of which oath followeth . the oath . ia . b. do abjure and renounce the popes supremacy and authority over the catholick church in generall , and over my selfe in particular , and i do believe that there is not any transubstantiation in the sacrament of the lords supper or in the elements of bread and wine after consecration thereof by any person whatsoever ; and i do believe that there is not any purgatory ; and that the consecrated host , crucifix or images ought not to be worshipped , neither that any worship is due unto them ; and also believe , that salvation cannot be merited by workes ; and all doctrines in affirmation of the said points , i do abjure and renounce without any equivocation , mentall reservation , or secret evasion whatsoever , taking the words by mee spoken , according to the common and usuall meaning of them . so help me god . my teares are on my cheekes , and mine eyes run down with water , because the comforter , that should relieve my soule , is far from me : how is the gold become dim , and the most fine gold changed ? how have we looked for the time of healing and behold trouble ? arise , cry out in the night , in the beginning of the watches , poure fourth thy heart like water before the face of the lord , for they have healed the hurt of the daughter of my people slightly , they have still left a dangerous wound even in the heart of our liberty . is there no balm in gilead ? is there no phisitian ? why then is not the health of the daughter of my people recovered ? why are these oathes continued with so sharpe a double edge , that unavoidably they either cut the purse or kill the conscience ? i confesse my own weaknesse in the government of my selfe , i confesse my own ignorance in prescribing to others ; yet the desires of prosperity to this nation have taken such strong hold upon my soule , and i feel my spirit so powerfully drawn forth to advance the things that belong to its peace , that i cannot refrain my pen from humbly and earnestly soliciting a more firm and perfect establishment of the two principall pillers of all flourishing common-wealths , mercy to such as suffer for conscience ; and impartiall justice to all men . as these considerations have engaged me once more to expose the most secret and retired thoughts of my heart to be seen by others ; so i assure the reader this shall be their last appearance in publique , that he may rest secure from all fear of losing his time upon any thing of mine hereafter : but lest i offend too much in the present trouble i give him ; i shall imediatly apply my selfe to my task , and endeavour with a gentle , yet faithfull hand , to open the orifice of the neglected wound , humbly imploring the gratious influence of heaven to govern our great colledge in their grave and charitable consults for the perfect cure of all our sorrowes . and in searching how mortall a stroake such oathes , as this of abjuration , give to the known rights , and priviledges of the people of this land , my method shall be directed by these heads . that they are fundamentally repugnant to the common lawes and ancient statutes of this nation . directly contrary to many acts even of the last parliament , and declarations of the present army . absolutely prohibited by the law of god , and inconsistent with the generall judgement of all reformed churches . magistrates being originally instituted for this principall end , to maintain a just order & harmony in the outward motions of the multitude , it necessarily followes that the generall designe of government is little concerned , what noat we make in our single selves , if we be in tune with our companions . upon which ground the common law of this land directs all its care to rule and treat us , as we are considered in reference to one another , and therefore neither limits our private expences , nor obliges to any course of physick ; because our particular fortunes and health are of very little importance to the publique , and of very much to our selves ; and since nothing is more reasonable then to entrust those with the managery of an affair , whom the issue most concernes , it cannot be denyed , but as this freedom ( without which we were absolute slaves , ) is allowed us in relation to our bodies and estates : so our souls ( as far as may consist with the publique peace ) ought to enjoy a just and proportionable share in the same liberty . much lesse doth the law either punish or reward our thoughts , because they neither disappoint nor advance its ends ; the intention of murther ( though in the highest degree of premeditated malice ) is no way subject to any legall account , if the mischievous purpose stay at the fancy , and proceed no farther to any outward attempt : by which necessary distinction betwixt divine and human jurisdiction , the law religiously preserves its reverence to the great tribunall of god , before whom only , we are to answer for the private errors and secret vices of our hearts , as we are accountable to the magistrate for the open crimes and scandalous actions of our hand● . if any conceive it just to enact a law against erroneous thoughts in religion , with an oath of aburation to make the suspected accuse himself , why should they not as well impose a penalty upon the vicious thoughts of hatred , revenge or ambition : and then force every one to swear whether he be guilty ? certainly magistrates may as lawfully put us to our oathes , whether we have assented to any traiterous thought against our country , or coveted our neighbours goods or wife , as what we think of such a point of divinity . should it be pretended , that the oath of abjuration commits no force upon the mind , but only upon the mouth ; gives free leave to think what we will , if we swear as it commands ; such liberty of conscience ( to believe in our hearts contrary to what we profess with our lips ) nero himself allowed ; such liberty of conscience ( that is , damnable hypocrisy ) is indeed the proper and naturall effect of compulsion upon the conscience : surely by this glorious word ( liberty ) something more is intended to be left us , then what no tyrant can take from us ; surely it ought at least to be so curteously interpreted , that by this kind phrase ( liberty of conscience ) be understood a liberty consistent with conscience ; a condition , wherein every peaceable christian may follow our principles , without renouncing his own honesty : yet i confesse it puzzels all the reason i am owner of , that they who take this oath ( though very credibly against their consciences ) shall enjoy the full benefit of tender consciences ; and if any refuse it ( because against his conscience ) he is wholly excluded from the least mercy provided for tender consciences . besides , this dispunishableness of thoughts arises as well from the impossibility of lawfull proof , as from their innocency in not offending others ; and therefore a secret promise ( though most seriously and deliberatly resolv'd on ) if reserved in the parties own conscience , creates no legall obligation of performance ; which could not be true , if the law did allow any proceeding , whereby the party were compellable to accuse himselfe . and therefore , even in chancery ( though that be a swearing court ) if a bill of perjury be sued upon the statute ( . eliz. ) the defendant shall not be forced to make answer upon oath either to the bill or interrogatories . so if a juror be challenged for partiallity , grounded upon some indifferent and unreproachfull objection ( as kindred to one of the parties , &c. ) he shall be admitted to clear such a question by his own oath ; but if the charge be either ignominous or dangerous , as bribery , &c. the challenger must maintain his assertion by witnesses ; it being unreasonable ( in the wise and moderate judgement of the law ) that any one be enforced to become his own accuser . with these agree many other authorities , all unanimously subscribing to this conclusion , as an undeniable maxime of law , that , none can be lawfully examined upon oath , concerning any thing that sounds to his own prejudice . nay so great an abhorrence has the common law of the parties being forced to prosecute and condemn himself , that it employs an extraordinary diligence to prevent so destructive an abuse ; and therefore in fitzherberts natura brevium , if any had been cited into the spirituall court to accuse himself pro salute animae , as they call'd it , a prohibition lay at the common law to stop and supersede their proceedings ; and it is a case adjudged , that , if in a paenall law , the jurisdiction of the ordinary be saved , as in eliz. . for hearing of masse , the party shall not be examined upon oath before the ordinary concerning that point , because it might becom an evidence against himselfe , if questioned afterwards in the temporall courts , which is a direct authority in the very point out of a book licensed and printed by speciall order of the last parliament , cleerly proving , that as the papists ought to be tryed by witnesses , and not themselves examined upon oath , concerning their going to masse ; so , much less concerning their inward belief , especially when such ruine attends them in their estates , if they dare refuse to sweare against their consciences . it is true by the common law in some personall actions the defendant is admitted ( not compelld ) to his oath , as in case of wager of law , &c. . h. . . of non summons in a praecipe quod reddat , and of garnishment , upon a scire facias , &c. but all these oathes are either voluntarily offered by the party himself , not enforced upon him by the judges , and go in discharge , not condemnation of him ; or else concern only some collaterall passage of little importance to the decision of the main controversie , nor is the least shadow of such practise to be seen in any penall law , which is the only point we dispute upon , and which we here undertake to prove ; a proceeding altogether unknown to our lawes , that any one should be constrained to inform against himself , and so become his own executioner . upon this ground sir thomas moore ( a person compleatly learned in the lawes of this land , and universally famous for courage and resolution , according to his principles ) refused the then new oath concerning the kings supreamacy and divorce , alleadging for his defence at the bar , that he never spake or acted any thing against that statute , and upon this plea he relyed , as an evident justification in law , which never ( said he ) was strained so far as to reach our thoughts ; and for his inward judgement , he freely profest that oath to be against it , offering before the judges to sweare , that the unsatisfaction of his conscience therein was the onely cause of his refusall to comply with their commands . and if we look back upon times behind us , we shall often see the outward words and actions censured by the magistrate , but never the least attempt upon the a inward belief ; though the principles heretofore entertained concerning the use of force in religion have generally been far more rigid , then those we now professe . therefore in the acts of . hen. . . & . hen. . . & . hen. . . ( made even in popish times which we so much condemn for cruelty ) those that began new opinions contrary to the received religion of the nation , are prohibited to preach publickly any doctrine destructive of the established lawes , or by their subtile sermons to draw the people after them ; but not a word of forcing to swear the contrary . they are forbidden to write books in defence of their singularities , or make unlawfull conventicles to the endangering of the publique peace ; but not a sillable of renouncing what they believed in their heart . the statute of . hen. . . layes a forfeiture upon any that by word , writing , printing , publishing , preaching or teaching , shall maintaine any of the opinions in six articles therein prohibited : but not a letter of abjuring their inward perswasion . and what the lord herbert in his history of henry the . saith concerning this statute is worth consideration , his words are these . the six articles being now published , gave no little occasion of murmur , since to revoke the conscience not only from its own court , but from the ordinary wayes of resolving controversies , to such an abrupt decision of the common law , as is there set down , was thought to be a deturning of religion from its right and usuall course ; since the conscience must be taught , not forced ; without that it should at any time be handled roughly , as being of so delicate a temper , as though it suffer an edge to be put on , who doth more , diminisheth or breakes it : besides to make the contravening of doctrines , to be capitall , before they be fully proved , is prejudiciall to that liberty , without which none can justify himself before god or man : for if it be death ( and sequestration is a kind of death ) to believe otherwise then wee are commanded ; how unsafe will it be to make exact enquiry ? and without it , who can say his religion is best ? besides the example is dangerous ; for if infidels and heathens ( to retain their people in obedience ) should do the like , who would ever turne christian ? therefore cranmer for three dayes together in the open assembly oppos'd these articles boldly , &c. thus far this learned historian . the statute of edw. . . ( in the beginning of the reformation ) continued the same stile of punishing only the outward act , whilst it declares , if any shall deprave , despise or contemn the sacrament of the altar ( so called in the act , according to the language of those times ) he should suffer imprisonment and make fine and ransom at the kings pleasure . in the statutes of . eliz. . & . eliz. . it is enacted ; that if any person shall by writing , printing , teaching or preaching extoll , &c. the authority of the bishop of rome , or by any speeches , deed or open act attribute any authority here in england to the said bishop , hee shall incur the penalty mentioned in that statute . agreeable to the former statutes is ( eliz. c. . ) being the act made for the subscription to the articles of religion , then newly modelled into a publique forme of confession of faith . the words of the act are these . if any such ecclesiasticall person shall advisedly maintain or affirme any doctrine directly contrary or repugnant to the said articles , and shall persist therein and not revoke his errour , such maintaining or affirming and persisting , shall be just cause to deprive such person of his ecclesiasticall promotions . upon which statute these things are observable . first , that these subscriptions being concerning matters of faith are required of schollers and divines upon their pretence to church preferments , not of lay persons , to dispossesse them of their temporall inheritances . secondly , they must maintaine or affirm some doctrine opposite to these articles , to bring them within the penalty of that law . so that the believing only of the contrary is not sufficient . thirdly , such maintaining or affirming is to be voluntary , and not drawn out of them by the rack of an oath . fourthly , it , being made a cause of deprivation , must be by witnesses , and not by the enforced abjuration of the party . fifthly , they are to lose only their ecclesiasticall promotions , and not to be deprived of their temporall estate . not one of these so rationall and necessary cautions is at all now considered in the modern proceedings against papists ; but the most unlearned tradesman and ignorant woman amongst them are compel'd to accuse themselves , their judges never asking after witnesses ; and this under forfeiture of full two thirds of all their goods and lands . and even in the last parliament many ordinances have followed the same way of prohibiting externall disorders , occasioned from difference in opinions , but not precisely for the bare difference in opinion ; as that of the aug. . made by the lords and commons . wherein it is ordained , that what person soever shall endeavour to bring the directory into contempt , or raise any opposition against it , or shall practise , write or print , or cause to be written or printed any thing in derogation or depraving of the said directory , shall lose and forfeit for such offence such a sum of money , as shall at the time of his conviction be thought fit to be imposed upon him , by him before whom he shall have his tryall . conformable to this was an order made in parliament decemb. . . the parliament taking into consideration , that some anabaptists and other sectaries have disturbed the ministers and congregations in some churches of this realme , in disparagement of the lawes , statutes and governments thereof , do order that the constables and headboroughs within their severall parishes , &c. shall arrest the bodies of all such persons as shall disturbe any ministers in holy orders , whilst he is in place of exercising his publique calling , by speaking to him , or using irreverent gestures or actions ; and that they carry the bodies of such offenders before some justice of peace of the same county to be dealt with , as to justice shall appertain . so likewise . aug. . it is enacted , that every person that shall presume avowedly by words to professe , or shall by writing proceed to affirm any blasphemous , atheisticall or execrable opinions derogatory to the honour of god , such persons so avowedly professing , maintaining or publishing the said opinions or any of them , shall incurr the penalties of the said statute . which shewes plainly that the last parliament thought it not fit to punish any for erroneous opinions , ( though of the highest nature ) if the party shall onely believe them in his heart , and keep them within his own breast . lastly , ( as a finall decision of this point and full satisfaction of those objections , which some make against the validity of an ordinance ) it was enacted ( car. ) by the king , lords , and commons , that no person whatsoever exercizing any ecclesiasticall ( much lesse temporall ) jurisdiction shall tender any oath to any person , either ex officio or at the instance of any whosoever , whereby he may be charged to confesse or accuse himself of any crime , and so expose himselfe to punishment : then which no clearer or more definitive sentence can be imagined . and ( which is very observable ) never in former times was any abjuration required , but of such , as were first legally convict of heresy ; never till these times , was the abjuration it self made the conviction , and therefore in the statute of hen. . . these two conditions are punctually exprest , that in case of abjuration the opinion to be abjured be a known heresy , and the party to abjure be legally found guilty , before they proceed to exact his abjuration . according to this tenor run many other statutes both ancient and modern , which my design of brevity enforces me to omit , and the full sufficiency of the lawes already cited renders altogether unnecessary ; only i shall desire leave to extract these few sound and excellent words out of the petition of right , car. that no free men be compelled to take any oath , not warranted by the lawes of the realme . this being then concluded , that thoughts are free from all humane lawes , and self accusation contrary to the english lawes ; it is very suitable to our method , to consider next what provision our common-wealth has made for discovery and conviction of offenders ; wherein after i have slightly toucht some of the arguments mentioned in the first part of this moderator , i shall pass on to those aditionall reasons i have since collected , and that the way of indictment and conviction of witnesses and jury is the only proceeding owned by the fundamentall lawes of this land , is abundantly proved by the chief author and surest defender of all our liberties , magna carta , so often confirmed in our ancient parliaments , so reverently upon all occasions cited by the last : where every english man may read with joy these precious words . no free man may be arrested or imprisoned , but by due proces of law . no man shall be put out of his freehold by either the king himself , or any commissioners , but every ones right to be tryed by a jury of his equalls . of which happy-freedom the papists ( who long since procured it for this nation ) enjoy not now the least shadow . ed. . . it is enacted that no man from hence forth shall be attached upon any occasion , nor his lands , tenements , goods , or chattells seized against the form of the great charter or against the law of the land . to this regular form of proceeding thieves and robbers have a cleer and allowed right , only papists upon the single account of religion are altogether excluded . . ed. . c. . none is to be convicted of any offence , unlesse by indictment , or presentment of good , and lawfull men , where such offence is supposed to be done . this justice every murtherer can claim and no judge dare deny ; only the papist whom we can accuse of no other crime ; then difference of judgement in religion , is forced to convict himself by his own oath , without the least colour of any legall indictment , so expresly contrary to the known lawes and ancient liberties of this nation . . ed. . c. . no man of what condition or estate soever shall be put out of his lands or tenements without being brought to answer by due proces of law . this priviledge the most triviall fellow , that has but a cottage to hide his head in , may uncontrollably challenge , and god forbid it should be refused him ; but then how is it reasonable that recusants ( many of them persons of very considerable , quality ) be dispossest of so great estates , upon their own enforced oaths without any due process of law ? . ed. . cap. . it is enacted that the great charter shall be held , and kept in all points , and if any statute be made to the contrary it shall be void . nay so great account have our wisest ancestors made of this magna carta , so carefully provided for its preservation and universall observance , that it has no lesse then times been solemnly confirmed by authority of parliament , as is at large declared in sir ed. coke's . report fol. . b. and in his . report fol. . b. . ed. . cap. . it is enacted , that no man shall be put to answer without presentment before justices or matter of record , or by due proces , according to the law of the land , and if any thing from henceforth be done to the contrary , it shall be void in law and holden for error . no court disallowes this advantage to the worst of traitours ; no committee allowes it to the quietest of recusants . all these so excellent lawes ( such as no people under heaven enjoy ) were made when the legislative power was absolutely in the hands of papists ; all these priviledge ( so high and extraordinary that they deserve the name , rather of the peoples prerogatives then their liberties ) the papists obtain'd and establishd in their times , & carefully transmitted to their posterities : all these wise and prudent cautions ( which so safely fence and preserve our common freedom from the encroachment of arbitrary power ) were providently contrived by the papists , and from them are happily descended upon us . and shall we now , ( having reform'd their faith ) forget our own reason so far , as to deprive our brethren of the benefit of those lawes , which their fathers made , only because they resemble them most in religion ? shall we so far yeild to passion , as utterly deny them the immmunities of their ancesters ? or can we possibly arrive at this degree of partiality , as not permit the greatest malefactor to be his own accuser , and yet enforce the most peaceable recusant to be his own condemner ? nay though the thief ( arraign'd at the bar ) confesse his guilt , our judges mercifully decline to condemn him , without some testimony of witnesses : but if a recusant will not voluntarily both arraign and condemn himself , the practise of haberdashers hall is , ( without thinking of further proof ) immediatly to proceed to execution . nor was this tendernes towards the liberty of the subject regarded only in those old dayes , but we have fresh examples of a greater zeal and jealousie , then ever those times were acquainted with ; for in the great petition of right ( . car. ) all these statutes were particularly recited and earnestly insisted upon by the parliament then assembled . and yet a fresher instance is that of the last parliament , who ( in their act for regulation of the privy councell and abolition of the star-chamber ) did punctually repeat again all those statutes , and rely upon them as the fundamentall and unchangeable law of the land . besides , whereas copy-hold estates by the ancient lawes and customes of this nation , were never comprehended within the generall words of any act of parliament , which alters the interest of the land or the custome of the mannor , to the prejudice either of lord or tennant , as is resolved in sir edw. coke's second report , fol. . sir fran. more's reports . , &c. because no stranger can become tennant of any copyhold estate , without the lords speciall assent and admission ; for which cause no copyholds were ever lyable to any execution of statutes or recognizances in debts or formdon , nor were within the statute of hen. . cap. . for heresy , nor were seizable within the statute eliz. cap. . nor . jac. cap. . for recusancy ; yet ( contrary to this ancient fundamentall law ) the copyhold estates of every suspected recusant are seized upon and sequestred , although there be no ordinance or act of parliament expresly warranting any such proceedings . thus have we clearly demonstrated , that the onely course allowed by the law for determination of all controversies , is the ordinary proces by writ in civill causes , and by indictment in criminall and in both by witnesses and a jury of the neighbourhood , where the scene of the question lies . and now we shall fully satisfy our undertaking , if we can also prove that the late parliament often engaged by solemn acts and declarations to maintaine the lawes of the land . wherein it is impossible for any that can reade english , to retain the least doubt , when he has perused these few citations . may , . the lords and commons declare , that they will be very tender of the lawes , which they acknowledge to be the safegard and custody of all publique and private interest . october . they further declare , that they must owne it , as their duty , to use their best endeavours that the meanest of the common-wealth may enjoy their own birth-rights , freedome and liberty of the lawes of the land , being equally entituled thereunto with the greatest subject . november . they further declare , that slavery must be the peoples condition , if the two houses should goe about to overthrow the lawes of the land and the property of every mans estate . . may . if such things may be done by law without due proces , the subject hath a very poor defence , and a very small , if any proportion of property thereby . april . the parliament declared , that they will not , nor any , by colour of any authority derived from them , shall interrupt the ordinary course of justice . the parliament declared , that they will preserve unto the people their lawes , and will govern by them . and before and after they severall times declared , that the lawes of the land are the undoubted birth-right and inheritance of the meanest subject . by a speciall act , the parliament of england declared , that they are fully resolved to maintaine and preserve the fundamentall lawes of this nation , for and concerning the properties of the people with all things incident thereunto . now after all these ordinances , who could be so undutifull as to entertain the least fear of being ever hereafter forc'd to accuse himself ? upon these so many so solemn declarations , who could have excused the presumption and perversness of his heart , if he dared to doubt of their observance ; especially since the parliament did not proclaim to us its sence by bare words , but advanced farther to severe executions , and by the example of the earle of strafford strictly prohibited the introducement of any novelty in the practice of the law . against whom the parliament in their third article brought this charge , that he had proceeded summarily in the matter of the lord mont-norris ; and in the sixth article , his accusation was , that he had dispossest the lord mont-norris of his lands by a summary proces contrary to law ; and in the seaventh article the like charge was againe repeated ; that hee had deprived the lady hibbots of her possessions by a summary way of proceeding . these misdemeanours ( though not the only crimes of which he was accused , yet ) added such a weight to his other offences that altogether they sunk him into his grave . in the whole course of whose tryall i meet with nothing more worthy to be staid upon , then this consideration ; that the parliament did not so much urge against him the illegality , as the unlawfulnesse of his proceedings , nor condemn him barely for want of a commission or authority , but because his actions were in themselves tirannicall , and dangerous encroachments upon the fundamentall liberty of this nation ; yet he examined witnesses , but after a fashion of his own devising , and left the common road of tryall by the verdict of a jury . and can there be a more summary proces , then to accuse any whom we suspect of a crime , and ( unlesse he immediatly sweare himself unguilty ) immediately condemn him , as guilty ? can there be a more quick and cutting dispatch , then in half an houre to turne a just owner out of his ancient possession , because he will not swear against his conscience ? and ( which is yet worse ) can there be a more compendious ( if not preposterous ) way , then first to seize upon and secure the estate , and then hear the party speak for himself ? yet these are the express instructions to the committees for sequestrations in the year . that where they find any doubt concerning any person whether hee be comprehended within the said ordinance ( for sequestration ) they are to certify the same to the committee of lords and commons for that service , and in the meane time to secure the estate of such persons , untill they receive further instructions . and now when i consider the office of a parliament , which is principally to reform the abuses , that time ( conspiring with our corrupted nature ) brings into the administration of the lawes , when i consider the quality of the last parliament , professing so scrupulous and precise a respect to the preservation of our ancient liberties : i cannot sufficiently wonder from what cause this unhappy effect should flow , by which a free-born english-man is compell'd to be his own accuser in matters of so tender a nature , as conscience and religion , and of so high a concernment , as the utter impoverishment of himselfe and his family ; but after a little ranging about i soon discovered the fountain head in a dark hollow place , where three or four hundred springs of fresh water met together in one channell , of which , some having passed through hot and sulphurous veines , quite changed the tast and colour of the rest , and the stormy weather of that season quickly raised the whole stream into a fierce and violent current , whose fury soon broke the common banks and bore down all before it like a deluge . the truth of which metaphor , is as easily proved , as the sence of it understood ; being no more then that the introducer of this cruell oath , was an ordinance hastily huddled up in the destroying time of presbytery and war . for then it was , that where the people had thrown in their rings and jewels , there came forth the golden covenant , before which all the nation must fall down and worship . then it was the presbyter-divines petitioned both houses for a perfect reformation and settling of the kirk discipline and classicall government . then it was that penalties began to be imposed upon all refusers of the covenant , and none to bear office but such as had taken the covenant ; nay all be punisht as spyes , that deny'd to take the covenant . not long after was published the directory or new almanack to pray by , taken out of the ephemerides of scotland , and calculated for the elevation of the new kirk of england by the assembly of well wishers to divinity . not long after were the apocriphall elders brought in , and tyrannicall classes erected ; both the houses declaring their intentions to settle religion in the purity thereof according to the covenant , which surely was a mistake in the printer , to say covenant instead of the word of god . thus plainly it appeares , that the presbyterian starres ( or comets rather , by the shortnesse and terrour of their blaze ) raigned in the firmament of our state at the birth of this unlucky oath of abjuration , and long after . the second branch of the task i undertook was , that these suddain and sharp proceedings of sequestring upon the bare refusall of an oath , without any legall process , were occasioned by the exigencies of the war ; an assertion most fully and evidently proved by the first ordinance against delinquents and papists ; in the preamble whereof the lords and commons ( reciting the calamities of the war ) declare , that all the sequestred estates should be applyed towards the supportation of the great charges of the common-wealth ; and in the first instructions to the committees , they are charged to use their best care and diligence for the speedy execution of the ordinance for sequestration , as being a matter of great necessity and importance for the subsistence of the army . and observing some slowness in the committee , the earl of manchester ( a commander in chiefe ) was empowred to execute that ordinance ; and the sequestrators commanded to pay the money they raised , to the committee of the army . one other argument there is , that inclines me to believe the parliament intended this ordinance only as a provision in those distracted times , and not as a standing law for ever ; else surely they would never have put into their commission so slight a thing as a bayliff of a corporation . were it handsome that the mayor of rising should come down from thatching some triviall ale-house , to tender the oath of abjuration to the noble earle of arundell ? or indeed how should a common tradesman ( whom without breach of charity we may presume can neither write nor read ) know what he does , when he commands others to forswear such hard long words , as supremacy , purgatory , and transubstantiation ? what shall we ( that accuse the papists of blind obedience ) say to our selves , when our very leaders are so short-sighted ? t is true , all these fair and just exceptions are fully answered by this one word necessity , a heteroclyte that hath no rule , no law , and therefore , as it is without law , to be judged without law . but then at least it ought to be a law unto it selfe , that is , confined to circumstances , wherein there is a true and reall necessity , and therefore during the furious violence and careir of war , such summary proceedings ( to prove without witness and condemn without jurors ) might easily find excuse , but being restored now to a perfect calm and universall peace , we are certainly obliged to return again to the known english tryall by indictment and conviction , and not continue still throwing our neighbours goods over-board , so long after the storm is ended . if any object , though the reason of necessity remains now no longer , since the gates of westminster hall are open , and the old crowd of suitors march peaceably there under the scotch colours ; yet the supream authority of the nation is bound to render no other account of their acts , then the french king of his edicts , which alwayes close with this frank and resolute period , car tel est nostre plaisir . i reply , first , that such objection seemes rather to accuse the government of tyranny , then faithfully defend its authority ; no sound approaching so nigh antipathy to an english eare , as that of being under an absolute and unlimited master , whether that boundlesse and uncontrollable power be lodged in the single person of a king or the multiplyed of a councill . when by the change of circumstances , any law becomes unfit to be continued , we are not forbidden to represent , even to the highest powers , our reasons for a repeale ; if we carry our addresses with such regard , that they appeare to intend a reformation of the errour , not correction of our superiors . in which respect , never did any parliament give such high hopes of a thorow redress , as that which lately sate , by erecting so carefully those two grand committees for regulating the law and propagating the gospel , by inviting so solemnly all that would offer their proposalls to come into their assistance . and as the whole nation remains infinitely bound to the solicitude of the army , for whose satisfaction both those committees were establish'd : so are we all no less oblig'd to the zeal of the generall , by whose personall presence every day at that of religion it received so great countenance and encouragement . and therefore i shall not entertain the least suspition that these few thoughts of mine should beget any offence , since they aim only to propose the unsuitableness of this new uncharitable oath of abjuration to the ancient and best lawes of the land . even the pope admits his subjects ( when they apprehend some errour in the proceedings ) to appeale from himselfe mis-informed , to himself better informed and yet we call his absolute ness , a tyranny , and their obedience , blindness . how much more then may those true lovers of their countreys happiness promise themselves security , if not acceptance from the parliament , who either by humble petition or other modest and untumultuous way represent to their consideration any mis-practiseor inconvenience , which in time might prove a dangerous precedent to the just liberties of their country . what ever the supream authority of a nation may by absolute prerogative command , yet the supream authority of this hath alwayes disclaim'd such arbitrary dominion , as tyrannicall , and often engag'd by most solemn declarations for the perpetuall continuance to the people of the lawes they are acquainted with ; amongst which as there is none more fundamentall and singular to the nation ▪ then the ancient tryall by witnesses and verdict , so we shall still endeavour to make more evident so important a truth , by proposing a short paralell betweene this oath of abjuration and that ex officio . in the grand petition signed by the . lords , and presented to the late king at york , we find this recorded as one of the principall grievances ; that many innovations in oathes and canons had beene lately imposed upon the clergy and other his majesties subjects , &c. in redresse of which mischievous encroachment upon our just libertyes , the late long parliament enacted ; that no person exercising any ecclesiasticall power or authority shall ex officio or at the instance or promotion of any person whatsoever urge , enforce , tender , give , or minister to any person whatsoever any oath , whereby he shall or may be charged to confesse or accuse himselfe of any crime , offence , delinquency , misdemeanour , matter or thing ▪ by reason whereof he shall or may be lyable to any penalty or punishment whatsoever . before which statute ( viz. . ) the unreasonableness and illegality of that oath had been clearly convinced by a learned treatise of oaths purposely written against it , as also by m. fuller in his arguments at the then kings bench against some branches of the high commission court ▪ both which pursued their points so efficaciously , that the grievances they opposed were unanimously condemn'd as intollerable abuses . and certainly no mathematicall demonstration can bear a higher and clearer evidence , then that the principall reasons ( which i have here collected out of both those treatises ) against that oath ex officio are more strongly appiable to this of abjuration . thus then they begin their just charge upon that unjust oath . first , that contrary to the law of nature and the fundamentall lawes and customes of this nation , the party examined is thereby forced to sweare against himselfe in a criminall cause before he knows his accuser , and consequently compell'd to be instrumentall to his owne punishment . this was condemned in the beginning of the last parliament with infinite applause , as a most unsufferable tyranny ; but the oath of abjuration far exceeds it , even in its two worst qualities , cruelty and illegality . every recusant ( whose conscience cannot down with the oath ) being unavoidably necessitated either to ruine his soul by taking it against conscience , or his estate by loss of two thirds , if he refuse it : wherein there is one circumstance practised , that raiseth this oath to a most exorbitant unconscionableness ; for as to those , whose judgements take any other road , as antinomians , socinians , or even jewes , their course is smooth and free , but if we espy one whom we guess to be a papist , and whose conscience we think is not plyant and nimble enough to leap over the block , then presently this break-neck oath of abjuration is clapt in his way ; against which our own hearts ( if we but lay our hands upon them ) will tell us , he must necessarily either stumble into a desperate poverty , or ( which is worse ) fall down-right into a damnable perjury . the oath ex officio was aver'd to be a meer alien , introduc'd by the prelates , upon pretext of purging their provinces of seduc'd people ; but indeed to maintain their hierarchy and tyrannize over the consciences of all dissenters contrary to law and equity ; this of abjuration is a greater stranger , never heard of till , when the presbyterian faction thought it a fit engine to skrew up their intended kirk-tyranny . by the oath ex officio , men were examined upon captious questions concerning their very thoughts , to the sifting and ransacking of their hearts and consciences , and were therein subjected to a farre greater tyranny then that of the spanish inquisition , which extends to words and actions onely . this of abjuration compells even women and illiterate persons positively to renounce ( by meer adventure or implicite faith ) many controversiall doctrines , about which the greatest divines of europe have so long disputed , and are like perhaps never to agree ; nor is this oath contented with a modest and simple professing , that they do not believe there is a purgatory : but absolutely exacts of them to swear down right there is none , in the last period of the oath , where they are enforced , to abjure and renounce all doctrines in affirmation of the said points . for my part , as i thinke it a wilde conceit , to hold there is a new world in the moon ; so i am sure it is a desperate presumption positively to swear the contrary . that oath ex officio ( being commonly tendered to such as are suspected guilty of the crimes , whereof they are to cleer themselves by their own oath , or otherwise to undergo a penalty ) must in all probability be an occasion of frequent perjuries , to the losse not only of many soules , but to the great abuse of the name and majesty of god . this of abjuration exposes men to the same danger , and god to the same dishonour ; and besides hath been so far from ever gaining any true convert to the protestant religion , that it hath made many swear away that little religion they had , and ever after professe none : for such indifferent and luke-warme papists , as take this oath , usually say , they will rather trust god with their soules then the common-wealth with their estates . whence certainly it was that the famous judge , sir edward coke , breaks out into this complaint ; experience now proveth , the consciences of men are grown so large , that the respect of their private interests and commodities doth for the most part induce them to perjury . according to which he there sets it down for a rule , that , to swear in a mans owne case is frequently in this age , the devills precipice , whereby to throw men headlong into hell . and yet to these straits ( which my heart even bleeds to think ) hath this cruell oath of abjuration driven all recusants , live they never so peaceably and unoffensively ; this dangerous snare ( for it deserves no milder name , since we never think of endeavouring by any rationall motives to perswade them out of their errours ) lyes continually before their feet to entrap them . where is our charity to christians , professing the same saviour , and believing the same scriptures , with our selves ? where is our justice to neighbours , equally entitled by their birthright to the same freedom with our selves ? is the extraordinary liberty , we held forth to all the world , shrunk into this narrownesse , that any peaceable person , who professes the gospell of christ ( though in some things mistaken ) should by us be compel'd to this sad necessity , either of absolute forswearing himself , or utter impoverishing his family , which in plain english signifies ( i tremble to utter it ) either devill take his soul , or sequestrator his estate . i acknowledg this a very harsh expression , but he that reflects upon the generall proceedings hitherto with recusants , that we appoint no godly and gifted men to convert them , but only committeemen to ruine them , will i feare finde too much truth in my words . upon occasion of the oath ex officio , a learned member moved in parliament , ( december , . ) that the law might punish , not make offenders ; that words and actions might be subject to law , but thoughts be free . another of the same learning and dignity ( in a speech in parliament against the oath ex officio ) set upon it this publique brand , that it was grown monstrous , and become indeed no other then carnificina conscientiae . upon the same ground was built the fourth article of the charge against the bishop of bath and wells , that he questioned one master james a minister of his diocesse , not only for matters of outward fact , but likewise concerning secret thoughts . all which extream and unsufferable inconveniences i confesse are so evidently appliable to the oath of abjuration , that you need but only change names , to make them exactly true of either except that in the one both far more difficult questions are required , and far greater penalties imposed , whereas in the other , the point in doubt was very easie to resolve , whether you had slept with your neighbours wife , and the punishment a little peece of money to repair pauls . and certainly it was with reflection upon this oath of abjuration , that the learned master hobbs sayes , there is another errour , to extend the power of the law ( which is the rule of actions only ) to the bare thoughts and consciences of men , by examination and inquisition of what they hold ; whereby men are either punished for their very thoughts , or constrained to answer an untruth for fear of punishment ; by which meanes they are forced to accuse themselves of their opinions , which is against the law of nature . nor doth this oath of abjuration extort the secret thoughts only , but compells the renouncing of some positions , which ( in the opinion of divers venerable writers ) are more receivable , then the doctrine of some avowed protestants . i instance in the point of transubstantiation ( one of the articles to be abjured ) which a calvin sayes is more rationall then the doctrine of consubstantiation , and yet this the lutherans ( our brethren ) unanimously hold . b hospinian ( another protestant writer ) sayes the like ; and c beza acknowledges transubstantiation to be an inevitably consequent of the doctrine of the reall presence , which all lutherans maintain , and is not against this oath . how then comes it to passe that the reall presence in the lords supper may be lawfully , at least safely maintained , which many protestants herein england do , and all lutherans every where ; yet under most severe penalties the intrinsick belief of transubstantiation must be abjur'd , which ( in the judgement of those famous reformers ) is an inevitable consequence of it , and more rationall , then the opinion of consubstantiation , yet this may be defended without being subject to the least question ; nay more , there is no oath nor penalty against the publique professing of consubstantiation , no nor against the publick practise according to that opinion , and yet the very inward belief of transubstantiation is made so heinous a crime , so severely punishable , that they who are but lookers on , and only see the burthens laid upon refusers of this oath , feel in their brests a certain instinct by which they protest themselves secretly and strangely enforc'd to grieve and sigh at the cruell and rigorous proceedings even of their own party . and that this compassion towards sufferers , upon the account of religion , rises not so much from softnesse of nature , as from the tendernesse of the spirit , will certainly finde an easie belief , if , in stead of a flock of tame and weeping women , we can pick out an army of victorious soldiers , whose courage neither knows to fear the face of such as threaten war , nor conscience endures to force the heart of those that will live in peace ; of which too evident truths , if any deny the first , let him read their past victories , if doubt of the second , i desire him to peruse their following declarations . now to the comfort and even amazement of the spirit , let us contemplat the constant pious intentions held forth by the army . no sooner had their many victories rendred them the terror of the world , ( our own as fearfully as neighbouring nations expecting what great designe of blood they next would enterprize ) but they threw aside the cruelty and ostentation of conquest , and took into themselves the bowells of mercy ; they presently look'd round about them on their afflicted christian brethren : and , knowing nothing more precious , nothing more comfortable to the godly then liberty of conscience , by their frequent declarations to the world , and zealous addresses to the late parliament , they manifested how unalterable they were in their holy principles . no licentious avarice emboldned them to divide the spoile , no wantonnesse provoked them to surfeit with the fruit of the land they had subdued ; so far from growing insolent with successe , that even their enemies have confest , there was never in any age known so great a modesty in so continued a victory , nor such excellent discipline in a conquering army . their own interest never regarded by themselvs , only to improve the quiet & repose of the consciencious , was their endeavour , which they pursued with so religious a noble courage , that they took their lives into their hands , and with the greatest hazard to self-preservation , removed that power which grew sloathfull , and halted in the way of godlinesse , and have moddel'd such a government , as shall intend chiefly to give balsome to the many wounds of the afflicted . this relief is the expectation and hope of many consciences now in anguish and tribulation , who cannot but with comfort remember , how the army ever had that compassion which the clergy wanted , and the millitary piety hath beene still eminent above the civill or ecclesiastick . what their godlinesse will be , we cheerfully and confidently expect ; what hitherto it hath , these ensuing expressions will declare . it was humbly desired by the army ; that ( according to the declaration of the parliament , promising a provision for tender consciences ) there might be some effectuall course taken according to the intent thereof , and that such , as upon conscientious grounds differ from the established formes , may not for that be debarred from the common rights , libertie and benifits equally belonging to all , as members of the common-wealth , whilest they live soberly and inoffensively to others , and peaceably and faithfully to the state . likewise , that sufficient care be taken for the liberty and protection of those , who cannot submit to the externall worship of this nation , though otherwise conformable to the civill power and authority therof . they desired , that an act might be passed to take away all coercive power extending to any civill penalties upon any , for matters of conscience ; and expresly , that papists be subject to punishment , onely for disturbing the state , and that men may not be compelled to take any oath against their judgement and consciences , but that all orders and ordinances to that purpose may be repealed . that none may be compelled by penalties to answer to questions tending to accuse themselves ; and that consideration might be had of all statutes and ordinances , imposing any oaths , and that they might be either repealed or at least so qualified , that they might not extend or be construed to the molestation or punishment of religious and peaceable people for non-conformity to fixed formes , bounds , and limits , thereby to confine gods holy spirit ; as if religion consisted more in such outward formes and rites , according to the manner of moses , then in power and vertue according to the gospel . againe , that matters of religion and the wayes of gods worship are not by them intrusted to any humane power , because therein they cannot remit or exceede a tittle of what their consciences dictate unto them , to be the word of god , without wilfull sinne : neverthelesse the publique way of instructing the nation , so it be not compulsive , is referred to the discretion of the parliament . his excellency and council of war declare , that the covenant be not enforced , nor any penalties imposed on the refusers , whereby men might be constrained to take it against their judgements , but that all orders & ordinances to that purpose might be repealed . that consideration be had of statutes , laws & customes of corporations , imposing any oaths , & that they may be either repealed or so qualified , that they may not extend or be construed to the molestation or ensnaring of religious & peaceable people , meerly for a non-conformity in religion . again his excellency thus learnedly and religiously , if outward things may not be contended for , much lesse may the doctrines of faith ( which are the works of grace and the spirit ) be endeavoured by unsuitable meanes : he that bids us contend for the faith once delivered to the saints , tells us we should doe it by building up our selves in the most holy faith , not pinning it upon other mens sleeves , keeping our selves in the love of god , not destroying men , because they will not be of our faith , &c. as for the people ( speaking of ireland ) what thoughts they have in matters of religion in their owne breast , i cannot reach , but thinke is my duty , if they walke honestly and peaceably , not to cause them in the least degree to suffer for the same , but to endeavour to walke patiently , and in love towards them ; to see if at any time it shall please god to give them another or a better minde . and in a letter to the then governour of rosse in ireland , his excellency ( speaking of religion ) sayes , he meddles not with any mans private conscience . the army further declare , that they doe not impower or intrust their representatives to continue in force or make any lawes , oaths , or covenants , whereby to compell by penalties or otherwise , any person to any thing , in or about matters of faith , religion , or gods worship , or to restraine any person from the profession of his faith , or excercise of religion , according to his conscience . or to punish any person for refusing to answer to questions in criminall causes . these declarations of the army were seconded by a petition from the cityes of london and westminster , & burrough of southwark , to the parliament , in these words , that they would exempt matters of religion and gods worship from the compulsive and restrictive power of any authority upon earth , and referre them to the supream power of almighty god . and that the parliament would not proceed in making ordinances , or lawes , or in appointing punishments concerning opinions , wherein themselves may easily be mistaken , &c. on all oportunities , thus hath the army declared what was the light they walk'd by in the dark thorny wayes of their precedent dangers ; and in the endeavour that every conscience may have a comfortable repose , they continue constant still , and vigorous ; nor can there be the least suspition of straying from these religious principles , having for their guide , his excellency , who hath fought his enemies as much into confusion , by an unexampled regularity of manners , and holy encouraging to piety , by frequent exhortations , tears , and prayers , as by the sharpnesse of his sword , and a courage ever invincible . our next progresse shall be to evince the truth and holinesse of these principles of the army , against the enforcing of oaths , & coertion in religion , to be clearly establish'd upon that sure foundation the law of god . of which three words , being of greater weight then three thousand volumes of mens discourses , i shall content my selfe , and hope to content my reader with the citation of these few texts ; one witnesse shall not rise up against a man for any iniquity , fault , &c. ( much lesse shall a man rise up against himself ) but in the mouth of two or three witnesses shall the matter be established ; which rule is confirmed in the gospel , in the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established , and our lord christ himselfe said to the woman accused of adultery , where be thy accusers , if they condemn thee not , neither do i. in the proceedings upon this oath of abjuration , there is no accuser , no witnesse ; the party himselfe must be both against himself ; and what can be more opposite to scripture , then such enforcement ? and that carnall men , and they , who build on the authority of academick learning , may see how abhorring to truth all force and violence offered to the conscience is : let their patience go a little forward and finde what have been the opinions of the most eminent divines in the reformed churches . none are to be compelled to professe the true religion , by imprisonment or losse of goods ; the magistrate ought to force no man to subscribe articles concerning religion , but that is to be left to the grace of god in every one , as the lord shall direct . the magistrate misuses his power , if he impose lawes upon our consciences ; for paul did not subject the consciences of christians to humane lawes , but to the ordinances of god . men are to be perswaded to religion by reason , not compelled thereunto by punishment : the gospel allowes not the law of compulsion to be put upon the conscience , but only of councell and exhortation . the scripture commands , that they who are weake in faith are to be borne withall , untill the lord shall reveale unto them all such things wherein they are ignorant , and in the meane while they ought to be instructed , not punished . all men erring from the true religion are to be reclaim'd by fatherly exhortations , hearing the word , and good instructions , not by force & violence . the lord hath definitively declared , that the magistrates are not fit judges in matters of religion , and therefore hath interdicted them all use of such jurisdiction , and reserved it to himselfe , who at the last day by his angels shall separate the tares from the wheat . god alone is lord of the conscience , and hath left it free from the doctrines and commandements of men , which are in any thing beside his word in matters of faith : so that to believe such doctrines , or to obey such commands out of conscience , is to betray our liberty of conscience , and the requiring of an absolute obedience , is to destroy liberty of conscience and reason also . faith hath no relation unto , nor dependency at all upon compulsion and commandement , but onely upon certainty and probability of arguguments , drawn from reason , or from something which men beleeve already : therefore the ministers of christ in this world have no power to punish any for not beleeving ; since paul himselfe professeth , we have no dominion over your faith . faith ( both in respect of the object and of the assent ) being the free gift of god ; which man can neither give nor take away by promise of rewards nor menace of tortures . there is no coercive power left by our saviour upon earth in matters of religion , but onely a power to proclaim the kingdome of christ , and perswade men to submit themselves thereunto , and by precepts & good counsel to teach them that have submitted what to do , that they may be received into the kingdome of god when it comes , &c. q. eliz. in her owne private judgement often declared , that she never thought it fit that the consciences of her subjects ought to be enforced ; albeit the bishops prevailed with her against her own judgment to the contrary . nothing is more against religion , then to force religion ; for as paul saith , the weapons of christian warfare are not carnall ; humane violence may make men counterfeit , but cannot make them beleeve , and is therefore fit for nothing but to breed form without , and atheisme within ; and infinite prejudice to the kingdome of christ , and consequently to the propagation of the gospel doth follow thereby . such who have their portions in this life , who serve no higher state ; then england , nor this neither any farther then they serve themselves , who think of no other happinesse , but the preservation of their owne fortunes in this world , and of no other meanes to preserve states but human policy , and beleeve no other creed , but regi aut civitati imperium habenti , nihil injustum quod utile , such it may become to maintaine by worldly power , and violence their state-instrument religion ; but they , who are indeed servants and lovers of christ , know , that to no state any thing can be profitable , which is unjust and that nothing can be more evidently unjust , then to force men to the profession of such points of religion , which they beleeve not . they who run into extreames in opposition to the church of rome , they who put downe the infallibility of the church of rome , and set up their owne , they who declaime against the tyranny of that church , and themselves exercise as great or greater over others , are the men that give the church of rome the greatest advantage ; whereas men of more moderate spirits , such as require of christians to beleeve onely in christ , upon such as these the church of rome cannot tell how to fasten . nor can it be any way advantageous to the civill state , that men , without warrant from god , should usurp a tyrannie over other mens consciences , and prescribe unto them without reason , and sometimes against reason , what they should beleeve ; we therefore are willing to leave all men to their liberty , provided they improve it not to a tyrannie over others . this presumptuous imposing of the senses of men upon the words of god , and the speciall senses of men upon the generall words of god , and laying them upon mens consciences together under severe penalties ; the deifying of mens owne interpretations , and tyrannically imposing them upon others , the restraining of the understanding of men , wherein christ and his apostles left them free , is and hath been the only fountain of the schismes of the church . take away this persecuting of men for not subscribing to the words of men , as the words of god ; require of christians only to beleeve christ ; in a word , take away tyrannie ( which is the devills instrument to support errors ) and restore christians to their just and full liberty , and it may well be hoped by gods blessing , that universall liberty , thus moderated , may quickly reduce christendome to truth & unity , the contrary effects whereof happen by the tyrannous imposition of opinions upon other mens consciences , whereby they are , as it were grievosly exulcerated . all the power of the world is neither fit to convince , nor able to compell a mans conscience to consent to any thing ; indeed worldly terror may prevaile so far , as to make men professe a religion , which they beleeve not ; such men , who know not that there is a heaven provided for martyrs , and a hell for those that dissemble such truths as are necessary to be professed ; but to force any man to beleeve what he knows not , or any honest man to dissemble what he doth believe , if god commands him to professe it , or to professe what he doth not beleeve , all the swords in the world are too weak , with all the powers of hell to assist them . it is a damnable sin for any man to professe an error against his conscience , though the error in it selfe and to him that beleeves it be not damnable ; nay the profession not only of an error but of a truth , if not beleeved , is a mortall sin , unlesse hypocrisie and dissimulation in religion be not so . if a papist be convinced or perswaded in conscience , that the protestant religion is irroneous , the profession of it , though in it selfe most true , would be to him damnable . see his reasons , fol. . thus in a full speed i have run over all that i could observe , to satisfy my spirit concerning the illegality of this oath in common law or common reason , in ancient or moderne acts of parliament , in the declarations of the army ( when successe had left them no employment but their piety ) in the opinions of the most learned reformed divines , and above all in the law of god ; and the charity i owe my afflicted brethren hath forc'd me to communicate this to the godly and religious , that they may with compassion reflect on those who eat their bread moistned with their teares , and weep over their houses , become desolate , because they would keep up their consciences from ruine . i have collected this for information of such , who have bowels , and disdain a glory or benefit that may rise by treading on their necks , who suffer only for religion ; who ( if they err ) err to their own temporall prejudice , and can in their error have no design of flesh and bloud ; whom discover'd to have any conspiracy against government i would have most severely punished , & whom quiet and inoffensive in practise of their own consciences , i would have pittied and relieved ; and this i seriously desire all religious spirits to weigh in their most godly and most prudent thoughts ; that looking back on the last hundred years , they shall finde every subversion of government in this nation ( either papall , prelaticall , or presbyterian ) to have bin wrought by a too rigorous coertion of the conscience ; religion ever falling down to the dust , when it leanes too much on the weak treacherous prop of humane policy , or endeavours to stand only by punishment of their brethren , modestly dissenting in some opinions . and why may not i with an humble boldness lay down these observations at the door of the supream autority the parliament , &c. now sitting at westminster ? why may i not solicite their mercy ( by contemplating , what a series of providences have fettled them in the present power , and redeemed their consciences from a design'd slavery ) to take into their first consideration the deplorable condition of the most oppress'd people in the world ? why may not the severity of the eternall justice , executed on former governements , instruct them to meekness towards their brethren in such a sad forlorn affliction ? and thereby preserve themselves and their successors to a continued blessing by that hand , which shakes down the pallaces of the proud and uncompassionate , and out of their rubbish builds up a tabernacle of glory for the humble and mercifull . nor can i at any distance how remote soever ( though we squint on carnall interests ) discover whence any the least prejudice can reach the government , in not offering violence by oaths to the conscience ; unless we reckon on the loss of that rent is annually extorted by violence from the conscience ? and how unhandsom and ( above that ) unchristian will it appear , that we can tenderly maintain every congregation , but only that , the not protecting which is for our temporall emolument and supplies of the treasury ; in recompence whereof , we may bring in the universall comfort of the whole nation , when liberty of conscience shall be so generall , that in that harmony no one string shall be out of tune ; every spirit charitably embracing each other , and though not fully consenting in every circumstance , yet all agreeing in one belief of one god , and one acknowledging of one mediator . and thus in a perfect unity at home , how safe shall we be against the sordidly avaritious , or disorderly ambitious of our enemies abroad ; who as they feare that sword , which the almighty hath put into our hands ; so will they court that nations friendship , which is so piously frindly in it selfe . how religious will they believe all leagues ? how happy all commerce with a people so conscientious , that ( only on the account of tenderness ) throwes away the covetous severity of their predecessors , and takes into one common liberty every conscience under their protection . to offer the reputation and honour hereby to be gain'd with our most powerfull neighbours ( which notwithstanding the wisest and noblest republiques have ever highly valued ) may perhaps be rejected , as a carnall vanity ; but the many blessings which the eternall mercy may be humbly hoped , will hereupon plentifully showre down upon the mercifull , is comfortably to be reflected on . every conscience thus set at liberty , being obliged in all christian duty , continually to invoak a happinesse on those governors , who have broken asunder the fetters in which so many were sadly bound up , and who have enlarg'd them to sing hymnes of praise for so great , so charitable a deliverance . will . birchley . finis . errata . page . lin. . read priviledges , p. . l. . r. all together , p. . l. . r. two evident . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a e- lam. . lam. . jer. . . lam. . jer. . . thoughts unpunisht because unoffensive . thoughts not punished because incapable of proof . doctor and student p. . dyer . ed ● challenge . crompton in his justice of p. . dalton fullers argument . coke mag. circa . leighes case . & . eliz. dyer . hinds case . ed. . . a thoughts not punisht by acts of parliament before the reformation . hen. . he. . hen. . . & hen . nor in the beginning of the reformation . lord herberts hen. fol. , . nor since the reformation . el●z . . eliz. . eliz. norby the last parliament it self . aug. . decemb : . aug. . hen. . coke mag. carta . . & . exact collections , fol. . ib. fol. . ibi● fol. . exact col . fol. . booke of ordinances fol. junii . . febr. . booke of o●dinances for sequestrations fol august . . book of o●dinan . . . jul . g●eat boo . of o●din . fol . . nov. . ordin. . . 〈◊〉 . . ordi . . ordi . . november . . gr. booke of ordin. . . apr. great book of ordin. fol. . and . sept. . in . caroli . cokes fourth report , f. . see book of speeches , pag. . master bagshaw , ibid. p. novemb. . . ibid p. master hobbs in his christian common-wealth , p. . a in consens . de re sacram. art. . p. ● . b part. . histor sacram . fol. . c de coena domini . p. . armies declaration . iune . p. narration of the army printed at oxford . . pag. . army's declaration . aug . page . their proposals , september . page . page . proceedings of the army , novem. . page . lord gen. cromwel's declaration . pag. . lord gen. declarat . . march . pag. . . pag. . lord generals letter dat. . octob. . narrarive of the army . april . page . petition presented . sept. . deut. . mat. . . john . . ofiander cent. . fol. . bucer comment . evangel. fol. . bucan. in loc. com fol . sect. . fox . acts and mon. fol. . and . beza in his theologicall tract. fol. . and . calvin . comment. in cor. . . polanus syntag. liber . . ca. . jac. acontius in strat. satan . fol. . and . perkins in . galat. fol. . assembly of divines conf. of faith , chap. . sect. . mr hobs in his christian common-wealth fo. . corinth . . fol. . ephes. . fol. ● . camdens el●z . annis . fol. . and . fol . m ▪ ●h●ll●ngworth . page . m. chil. in his preface , fol. . fol. . fol. . fol. . fol. . fol. . fol. . the last speech of col. eusebius andrews, sometimes a lawyer of lincolns-inne, at the time of his execution on the scaffold at tower-hill, thursday the of august, with several questions propounded to him by doctor swadling, and his answer thereunto. andrews, eusebius, d. . this text is an enriched version of the tcp digital transcription a of text r in the english short title catalog (wing a ). textual changes and metadata enrichments aim at making the text more computationally tractable, easier to read, and suitable for network-based collaborative curation by amateur and professional end users from many walks of life. the text has been tokenized and linguistically annotated with morphadorner. the annotation includes standard spellings that support the display of a text in a standardized format that preserves archaic forms ('loveth', 'seekest'). textual changes aim at restoring the text the author or stationer meant to publish. this text has not been fully proofread approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. earlyprint project evanston,il, notre dame, in, st. louis, mo a wing a estc r ocm this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) the last speech of col. eusebius andrews, sometimes a lawyer of lincolns-inne, at the time of his execution on the scaffold at tower-hill, thursday the of august, with several questions propounded to him by doctor swadling, and his answer thereunto. andrews, eusebius, d. . [ ], , [ ] p. printed for john clovves, london : . reproduction of original in huntington library. eng religious tolerance -- england -- history -- th century. great britain -- history -- commonwealth and protectorate, - . a r (wing a ). civilwar no the last speech of col. eusebius andrews, sometimes a lawyer of lincolns-inne, at the time of his execution on the scaffold at tower-hill, t andrews, eusebius c the rate of defects per , words puts this text in the c category of texts with between and defects per , words. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - apex covantage keyed and coded from proquest page images - mona logarbo sampled and proofread - mona logarbo text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion the last speech of col. eusebius andrews , sometimes a lawyer of lincolns-inne , at the time of his execution on the scaffold at tower-hill , thursday the of august , : with several questions propounded to him by doctor swadling , and his answer thereunto . licensed , entred , and published according to order . london , printed by john clovves , . the last speech of col. eusebius andrewes . as soon as he came upon the scaffold , kissing the block he said , i hope there is no more but this block between me and heaven ; and to the leiutenant of the tower he said , i hope i shall neither tire in my way , nor go out of it . after he had been a good while upon the scaffold , turning to the rail , he speaks to the people as followeth . christian gentlemen and people , your business hither to day , is to see a sad spectacle , a man to be in a moment unman'd , and cut off in the prime of his years , taken from further opportunities of doing good either to himself , his friends , the commonwealth , or especially to god , it seldom happens but upon very good cause . and though truly , if my general known course of life were but inquired into , i may modestly say , there is such a moral honesty upon it , as some may be so sawey as to expostulate why this great judgement is fall'n upon me ; but know i am able to give them and my self an answer , and out of this breast to give a better accompt of my judgement and execution then my judgers themselves or you are able to give ; it is gods wrath upon me for sins long unrepented , of many judgements withstood and mercies slighted ; therefore god hath whipped me by his severe rod of correction , that he might not loose me ; i pray joyn with me in prayer , that it may not be a fruitless rod , that when by this rod i have laid down my life , by this staffe i may be comforted , and received into glory . i am very confident by what i have heard since my sentence , there is more exception made against proceedings against me , then i ever made . my tryers had a law , and the value of that law is indisputable , and for me to make a question of it , i should but shame my self and my d●scretion in the strictness of that law , something is done by me , that is applicable to some clause therein , by which i stand condemnable : the means where by i was brought under that interpretation of that which was not in my self intended maliciously , being testimony given ( by persons whom i pit●y ) so false , yet so positive , that i cannot condemn my judges , for passing sentence against me , according to legal justice , for equity lieth higher breasts . as for my accusers , or rather , betrayers , i pitty , and am sorry for them , they have committed judas his crime ; but i wish and pray for them , peters tears , that by peters repentance they may escape judas his punishment , and i wish other people so happy , they may be taken up betimes , before they have drunk more blood of christian men , possibly less deserving then my self . it is true , there have been several addresses made for mercy , and i will put the obstruction of it upon nothing more then upon my own sin , and seeing god sees it fit ( i having not glorified him in my life ) i might do it in my death , which i am content to do : i profess in the face of god , particular malice to any one of the state or parliament , to do them a bodily injury i had none . for the cause in which i had a great while waded , i must needs say , my engagement or continuance in it hath laid no scruple upon my conscience , it was on principles of law : the knowledge whereof i profess , and on principalls of religion , my judgment satisfied , and conscience rectified , that i have pursued those wayes for which i bless god i find no blackness upon my conscience , nor have i put it into the bead-roll of my sins . i will not presume to deside controversies ; i desire god to honour himself in prospering that side that hath right with it , and that you may enjoy peace and plenty , when i shall enjoy peace and plenty , beyond all you possess here ; in my conversation in the world , i do not know where i have an enemy with cause , or that there is such a person to whom i have a regret ; but if there by any whom i cannot recollect , under the notion of christian men i parden them , as freely as if i had named them by name , i freely forgive them , being in free peace with all the world , as i desire god for christs sake , to be at peace with me . for the business of death , it is a sad sentence in it self , if men consult with flesh and blood : but truly without boasting , i say it , or if i do bo●st , i boast in the lord , i have not to this minute , had one consultation with the flesh about the blow of the axe , or one thought of the axe , more then as my passe-port to glory . i take it for an honour , and i owe thankfulness to those under whose power i am , that they have sent me hither to a place however of punishment , yet of some honour to die a death , somewhat worthy of my blood , answerable to my birth and qualification , and this courtesie of theirs , hath much helped towards the pacification of my mind . i shall desire god that those gentlemen in that sad beadrol to be tried by the high court of justice , that they may find that really there that is nominall in the act ; an high court of justice , a court of high justice high in its righteousness , though not in its severity , no more clouded with the testimony of such as sell blood for profit . father forgive them , and forgive me as i forgive them . i desire you now that you would pray for me , and not give over praying till the hour of death , not till the minute of death , for the hour is come already , that as i have a very great load of sins ; so i may have the wings of your prayers , to help those angels that are to convey my soul to heaven , and i doubt not , but i shall there see my saviour , my gallant master the king of england , & another mr. whom i much honoured , my lord capel ; hoping this day to see christ in the presence of the father , the king in the presence of him , my lord capel in the presence of them all ; and my self there to rejoyce with all other saints and angels for evermore . dr. swadling ( he being upon the scaffold ) spake as followeth unto the collonel . you have this morning in the prsence of a few , given some accompt of your religion , and under general notions or words , have given an accompt of your faith , charity , and repentance . to those on the scaffold , if you please to hear the same questions asked here , you shall , that it may be a general testimony to you all , that he died in the favour of god . to the colonel . now sir , i begin to deal with you : do you acknowledge that this stroak you are by and by to suffer , is a just punishment laid upon you by god , for your former sins ? coll. andrews . i dare not only not deny it , but dare not but confess it , i have no opportunity of glorifying god more , then by taking shame to my self , and i have a reason of the justice of god in my own bosome , which i have put to your bosome . doctor . you acknowledge you deserve more then this stroak of the axe , and that a farre greater misery is due to you , even the pains and torments of hell that the damned there endure ? coll. i know it is due in righteous judgment , but i know again , i have a satisfaction made by my elder brother christ jesus , and then i say it is not due , 't is due from me , but quitted by his righteousness . doctor . do you believe to be saved by that mediator and none others ? coll. by that and that only , renouncing all secondary causes whatsoever . doct. are you truly and unfainedly sorry before god , as you appear to us , for all those sins that have brought you hither ? col. i am sorry , and can never be sorrowful enough , and am sorry i can be no more sorry . doct. if god should by a miracle ( not to put you to a vain hope ) but if god should as he did to ezekiah , renew your dayes ; what life do you resolve to lead hereafter ? coll. it is a question of a great length , and requires a great time to answer . men in such streights would promise great things ; but i would first call some friends to limit , how far i should make a vow , that i might not make a rash one , and so offer the sacrifice of fools ; but a vow i would make , and by gods help endeavour to keep it . doct. do you wish health and happiness upon all lawful authorities and government ? coll. i do prize all obedience to lawful government , and the adventuring against them is sinful , and i do not justifie my self , what ever my judgment be for my thus venturing against the present government . i leave it to god to judge whether it be righteous , if it be , it must stand . doct. are you now in love and charity with all men ? do you freely forgive them ? coll. with all the world freely , and the lord forgive them , and forgive me , as i freely forgive them . doct. you have for some late years laid down your gown , and took up the sword , and you were a man of note in those parts where you had your residence . i have nothing to accuse you for want of diligence in hindering the doing of injuries , yet possibly there might be some wrong done by your officers , or those under you to some particular men : if you had your estate in your hands , would you make restitution ? coll. the wrongs themselves you bring to my mind , are not great , nor many ; some things of no great moment , but such as they are , my desire is to make restitution , but have not wherewithall . doct. if you had ability , would you likewise leave a legacy of thankfulness to almighty god , something to his poor servants , to his lame members , to his deaf members , to his double members ? coll. my will hath alwayes been better then my ability that way . doct. sir , i shall trouble you very little further , i thank you for all those heavenly colloquies i have enjoyed by being in your company these three dayes ; and truly i am very sorry i must part with so heavenly an associate . we have known one another heretofore ; but never so christian-like before , i have rather been a scholler to learn from you , then an instructer : i wish this stage wherein you are made a spectacle to god , angels , and the world , may be a school to all about you ; for though i will not diminish your sins , nor shall i conceale , nor hypocrize mine own , for they are great ones betwixt god and my self , yet i think there is few here have a lighter load upon them then you have , if we consider things well , and i only wish them your repentance , and that measure of faith god hath given you , and that measure of courage you have attained from god , and that constant perseverance god hath crowned you with hitherto . coll. his name be praised . here the doctor prayed with him almost a quarter of an hour , after which , the col. turning himself again to the people , spake as followeth . one thing more i desire to be clear in . there lieth a common imputation upon the cavaliers , that they are papists , and under that name we are made odious to those of the contrary opinion . i am not a papist , but renounce the pope with all his dependencies , when the distractions in religion first sprang up , i might have been thought apt to turn from this church to the roman , but was utterly unsatisfied in their doctrine , in point of faith , and very much , as to their dissipline . the religion which i profess , is that which passeth under the name of protestant , though that be rather a name of distinction , then properly essential to religion . but the religion which was found out in the reformation purged from all the errors of rome , in the reign of edward the . practiced in the reigns of queen elizabeth , k. iames , and k. charles , that blessed prince deceased , that religion before it was defaced . i am of which i take to be christs catholique , though not the roman catholique religion : in the profession and practice whereof , i will live and die , that for my religion . then he turned himself unto the executioner , i have no reason to quarrel with thee , thou art not the hand that throws the stone , i am not of such an estate to be liberal , but there is l. for thee , which is all i have . now tell me what i lack . executioner . your hair to be turned up col. shew me how to fit my self upon the block . after which his doublet being of , and hair turned up , he turned again to the people , and prayed a good while . before he laid down upon the block , he spake again to the people , viz. there is not one face that looks upon me , though many faces , and perhaps different from me in opinion and practice , but ( me thinks ) hath something of pitty in it , and may that mercy which is in your hearts , fall into your own bosoms when you have need of it ; and may you never find such blocks of sin to stand in the way of your mercy , as i have met with . i beseech you joyn with me in prayer . then he prayed ( leaning on the scaffold ) with an audible voice for about a quarter of an hour ; having done , he had some private conference with dr. swadling , then taking his leave of his friends , sheriffs , and acquaintance , saluting them all with a courteous valediction , he prepared himself for the block , kneeling down said , let me try the block , which he did , after casting his eyes up , and fixing them very intentively upon heaven , he said , when i say lord jesus receive me , executioner do thine office , then kissing the axe he laid down , and with as much undaunted , yet christian courage as possibly could be in man , did he expose his throat to the fatall axe , his life to the executioner , and commended his soul into the hands of god , as into the hands of a faithful and merciful creator , through the merritorious passion of a gracious redeemer , saying the foremencioned words , his head was smitten of at one blow . finis . the casting down of the last and strongest hold of satan. or, a treatise against toleration and pretended liberty of conscience: wherein by scripture, sound reason, fathers, schoolmen, casuists, protestant divines of all nations, confessions of faith of the reformed churches, ecclesiastical histories, and constant practice of the most pious and wisest emperours, princes, states, the best writers of politicks, the experience of all ages; yea, by divers principles, testimonies and proceedings of sectaries themselves, as donatists, anabaptists, brownists, independents, the unlawfulnesse and mischeif [sic] in christian commonwealths and kingdoms both of a vniversal toleration of all religions and consciences, and of a limited and bounded of some sects only, are clearly proved and demonstrated, with all the materiall grounds and reasons brought for such tolerations fully answered. / by thomas edvvards, minister of the gospel. the first part. casting down of the last and strongest hold of satan. part edwards, thomas, - . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing e thomason e _ estc r this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (thomason tracts ; :e [ ]) the casting down of the last and strongest hold of satan. or, a treatise against toleration and pretended liberty of conscience: wherein by scripture, sound reason, fathers, schoolmen, casuists, protestant divines of all nations, confessions of faith of the reformed churches, ecclesiastical histories, and constant practice of the most pious and wisest emperours, princes, states, the best writers of politicks, the experience of all ages; yea, by divers principles, testimonies and proceedings of sectaries themselves, as donatists, anabaptists, brownists, independents, the unlawfulnesse and mischeif [sic] in christian commonwealths and kingdoms both of a vniversal toleration of all religions and consciences, and of a limited and bounded of some sects only, are clearly proved and demonstrated, with all the materiall grounds and reasons brought for such tolerations fully answered. / by thomas edvvards, minister of the gospel. the first part. casting down of the last and strongest hold of satan. part edwards, thomas, - . [ ], p. printed by t.r. and e.m. for george calvert, and are to be sold at the golden fleece in the old-change., london, : . running title reads: a treatise against toleration. and pretended liberty of conscience. annotation on thomason copy: "june th". reproduction of the original in the british library. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng religious tolerance -- england -- early works to . - tcp assigned for keying and markup - aptara keyed and coded from proquest page images - john pas sampled and proofread - john pas text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion the casting down of the last and strongest hold of satan . or , a treatise against toleration and pretended liberty of conscience : wherein by scripture , sound reason , fathers , schoolmen , casuists . protestant divines of all nations , confessions of faith of the reformed churches , ecclesiastical histories , and constant practise of the most pious and wisest emperours , princes , states , the best writers of politicks , the experience of all ages ; yea , by divers principles , testimonies and proceedings of sectaries themselves , as donatists , anabaptists , brownists , independents , the unlawfulnesse and mischeif in christian common-wealths and kingdoms both of a vniversal toleration of all religions and consciences , and of a limited and bounded of some sects only , are clearly proved and demonstrated , with all the materiall grounds and reasons brought for such tolerations fully answered . by thomas edvvards minister of the gospel . the first part. chron . , . and josiah took away all the abominations out of all the con 〈…〉 that pertained to the childre● of israel , and made all that were present in israel to serve , even to s●ve the lord their god. and caused all that were present in jerusalem and beniamin i●stand to it . london , printed by t. r. and e. m. for george calvert , and are to be sold at the golden fleece in the old-change . . to the christian reader . good reader , i fully intended , and accordingly had provided that this first part of anti-toleration should have come into thy hands more compleat and perfect then it does for the present : i prepared an epistle dedicatory to the honourable houses of parliament sutable to the nature of toleration and the times , as also a preface and introduction to that argument and subject wherein laying down the prolegomena & praecognita of this noble and famous question of liberty of conscience , as certain distinctions about magistrates and their power , of errors and opinions , of persons holding them , of toleration and liberty , as some concessa , some negata , certain mistakes and misrepresentations of the state of the question , with divers other particulars , i drew up the true state of the question both theologically and politically ( it being a mixt question ) besides i purposed to have added to this part further proofs out of the new testament against toleration , and for the magistrates power : but these preparatives and additionals amounting to about some ●en sheets , ( the reviewing , perfecting , and printing whereof would take up at least twenty dayes ) and not knowing what a day might bring forth , the storm comming on so fast , i thought it best , for fear this book might be suppressed at the presse and never see the sun , to send it forth as it was , that the church of god at home and abroad might have the benefit of it , and to reserve the rest for a second part ( if god spare life and liberty . ) in this present tractate is handled the scripturall part of anti-toleration ( the best foundation and only ground-work to build on ) wherein there are not only the scriptures produced for proof , but made good by severall reasons from the text and context , with all the evasions to clude and put them off , fully answered . the subject matter of this book is the great controversie of the times , toleration being that very thing for which god hath a controversie with the parliament and land , having most justly , ( however t is most unjust on their part ) raised up that generation not to suffer them , because they have against the councel of god , yea against all sense and reason , let them alone and suffered them to grow to this head. i remember what god said to his people israel , that if they did not drive out the canaanites and destroy their pictures &c. they should be pricks in their eyes and thorns in their sides , and should vex them with their wiles , what of the king of israel , because that he let go out of his hand a man appointed to destruction , therefore his life should go for his life , and his people for that people ; as also what of the angel of thyatira , that christ had a quarrell with him for suffering that woman jezabel to teach and to seduce his servants . and we may see how god hath now fulfilled this upon the parliament , ministry , city , kingdome , vexing us and threatning heavy things against us by the sectaries , punishing us wherein we have offended . in all ages and histories of the church we shall find that hereticks and sectaries , however whilst weak and few , have pleaded for toleration and liberty , yet when they have come to grow strong and to have power in their hands , they never would suffer the orthodox , but have been the greatest tyrants and persecutors , as the arrians , donatists , anabaptists , arminians . it was the observation of * augustine many hundred yeers ago , and his answer to petilian , that the donatists ( however they pleaded far be it from them to compell any one to their tenets ) where they had power , used to force the orthodox violently ; and where they did not , it was not for want of will , but because they could not for fear of the laws or the multitude of refusers ; yea if any of their own party left them and came to the orthodox , they would fall upon them and beat them , yea kill them ; and that sect of the donatists which was strongest , would implore the help of the magistrate against their schismaticks the maximinianistae and rogatistae : all which austin shows . but for a conclusion , i shall turn my prayers unto god , that he would give us to see and know our sin in our punishment , and to give him glory in saying . righteous art thou o lord , and just are thy judgements ; and for the time to come to give magistrates , ministers , and his people more zeal and wisdome then to tolerate and suffer errors , heresies , and schismes . and so commending these labours to the blessing of christ , who yet lives and raigns , ( as * luther speaks ) and will raign till he hath made all his enemies his footstool . i remain , yours in christ , thomas edwards . the table containing some of the principall heads of this book . avniversall toleration is against the whole current , scope and sense of all scripture , and sets up the polluted defiled consciences of men above the scriptures . p. , what god commands persons for themselves and their own practise , he commands to them being in power and authoritie for all under them . p. , there can be no reason given why all other persons in authoritie , as fathers masters , &c should be bound to have a care in matters of religion over children , servants , and magistrates should have none . p. , the godly magistrates spoken of in scripture did de facto make use of their power to suppresse false doctrine , seducers . &c , , , they did not only doe it de facto , but de jure , were approved of and rewarded by god for so doing . p. , those magistrates who were good that out of any carnall respects , forbore to use their power , were sharply reproved and punished by god for it . p. , magistrates and judges before moses time , before the judiciall lawes or levitical priesthood , did punish for matters of religion , and command men under their power to worship god. p. , other kings besides those of israel and iudah used their power for the worship of god against idolaters , blasphemers , &c p. , , that objection against the kings of israel and iudahs power in matters of religion that they were tipes of christ , and that land typical answered at large in eight distinct answers , where divers things are opened concerning types , and of those kings being types and how actions may be typical , and yet morall , from p. , to idolatry and idolaters not the adaequate object of the magistrates coercive power under the old testament , but the whole worship and truth of god. from p. , to the . of deut. . . opened and proved to give magistrates the care of religion . p. , , , vnder the father in the fourth commandement , and under sanctifying the sabbath , the magistrates dutie to see the publick worship of god observed by his subjects , proved , p. , . the magistrates dutie qua magistrate in matters of religion proved , and yet with a difference of the christian and heathen magistrates power in such matters . p. , , the commands in the old testament for magistrates punishing in matters of the first table , as exod. . . deut. . , , . deut. . . , , , . levit. . . deut , , . . with divers others laid down , p. , , reasons laid down to prove these commands for punishing idolaters false prophets &c. morall , of common reason and equity given to all nations , and for all ages , from p. . to . of judiciall lawes under the old testament being in force under the new , how far and in what respects , with the reasons thereof , from p. . to . the magistrates punishing of sinnes immediately against god , as blasphemy , apostasie , &c. is of the light of nature , p. , , , , , the magistrates coercive power in matters of religion , as necessary under the gospel for the glory of god , salvation of mens soules , peace of church and state , as under the old ; yea more reasons for it under the gospel then under the law , p. , , the magistrates punishing false prophets , &c. is an act of our love to god and our brethren , p. , , , , , the reasons of those commands in . and . chap. of deut. concerning putting to death false prophets , apostates have been , were , and are stil the same , of a like nature and force both before the commands given by moses , in moses time , and now under the gospel p. , an answer to that objection , that if moses laws bind now , then moses is alive under the new testament . p. , a full answer to that objection , if the law in deut. . be in force now , t is in force in all the particulars for the manner of the punishment for a whole city not only al the inhabitants , but the cattell also &c. in which answer many things are opened and cleared , what 's morall in that deut. . and what ceremoniall ; and that the law concerning the destroying of a city , cattell &c. is no part of the command spoken of in the first part of the . chap , of deut. p. , , , , , , . , , . , an answer to that obiection , if moses lawes bind under the new testament , then every person in an idolatrous state is bound to seek the death one of another , yea the magistrate bound to sentence to death all his subiects practising idolatry without exception , p. , , , a full answer to that evasion of hagiomastix against the old testament lawes , that the reason why the magistrates did then punish false prophets , blasphemers &c. was because the jewes to whom these laws were given , in all difficult cases about matters of religion had the opportunity of immediate consultation with god , who did infallibly declare his mind to them ; in which answer many questions are discussed and cleared , severall texts opened , as whether god gave answers by vrim and thummim in difficulties arising about morall transgression● against the first table , or rather whether those answers were not concerning the events of future things , as about the successe of war &c. as whether infallibility or fallibility be the proper grounds and reasons of punishing or not punishing in matters of faith and morall transgressions ; as whether there be not , and how far , and by what means an infallibility and certainty in matters of religion now as well as under the law ? as whether that deut. . , , , , . be any proof for god giving answers by vrim and thummim , or only a ground in difficult cases to go from lower courts to higher , and the highest of all , who by reason of their number and abilities were more able from the law of god to resolve difficult cases then the inferior courts ? with divers other particulars usefull to be known in these times , from p. , to a full answer to that evasion brought by hagiomastix and other patrons of toleration , that the punishments under the law were more bodily and afflictive to the outward man then under the gospel , and consequently were typicall , cutting off , of casting out , now ; and typicall of eternall damnation , and therefore by the comming of christ ceased . p. , , , , , a full answer to that objection , that supposing all those lawes in deut. . &c. were morall and in force , yet they could not reach to hereticks and false teachers among us , as not being those false prophets , idolaters , blasphemers spoken of in those lawes , from p. , to an answer to that objection , that the sadduces , herodians , pharises were tolerated by the jewes , and that christ did never charge that church and state with sin for not punishing them , p. , , compared with , , , , severall reasons laid down to prove , that if there were no commands nor examples in the new testament to prove the magistrates power of punishing hereticks , false teachers , yet the proofs of the old testament were binding , p. , to besides all the old testament proofs , some places of scripture speaking of the dayes under the new testament brought for magistrates power in religion and punishing false teachers , p. , , , seven grounds from places of scripture recorded in the new testament , proving magistrates coercive power against false teachers annd hereticks , laid down and cleared , p , , , . published by authority . a treatise against the magistrates toleration and permission of a promiscuous use and profession of all religions , sects and heresies , and a partiall limited toleration of some few sects , or of any one sect , way of worship , church government different from the true religion established and setled . having in my preface and prolegomena both stated the question of toleration and liberty of conscience , and laid down many , particulars usefull and necessary to bee known , as giving understanding and light into the nature of this controversie : i now come as to the proving of a toleration in it self , of blasphemies , heresies , errors , schisms unlawfull ; so of showing the christian magistrates power and warrant , yea necessity that is laid upon him of hindring and suppressing all false wayes and worships , and of promoting and commanding by his authority with all his subjects the true religion and faith ; and this i shall do by laying down divers theses and positions one following upon another , and each going further and rising higher then the other ; and the method i propound to follow in this tractate shall be that of the title page of this book : first , by scripture : secondly , by sound reasons : thirdly , by fathers : fourthly , councels ; and so as it there followes , setting down upon all those heads by way of theses , the proofs of the points in hand , though upon some more , some fewer , as the nature of the things may require , and i shall judge needfull and convenient . chap. i. the theses grounded on expresse scriptures , proving the sinfulnesse and wickednesse of tolerations , and the magistrates duty with●● his territories to suppresse blasphemies , errors , heresies , schisms . . thesis . as there is but one god , one lord christ , one spirit , one heaven , so there is but one faith , and that once delivered to the saints , one truth , one gospel , and one way ; the scripture every where speaking of these in the ●ingular number as of one , not as of many , never calling them faiths , truths , gospels , wayes , but the faith , she gospel , the truth , the way of truth , the good old way , one way , the right way , the way of righteousnesse , and such like ; whereas falshood and error is manifold , the scripture speaking of false wayes 〈…〉 , of antichrists as many ; falsum est multiplex , verum autem 〈…〉 & sibi per 〈◊〉 conforme est . . thesis . the scriptures of the old and new testament in many placeth old forth and command to aske for , follow after , walke in that one good way , to strive and contend earnestly for that one faith , to hold fast the truth , to serve god only ; and on the contrary reproves , prohibits , condemns turning afide to the right hand or to the left , or halting between two or more religions and worships ; hence those complaints , kin. . . of the people halting between two opinions , between god and baal , of fearing the lord , and serving their owne gods after the manner of the nations , king. . vers . . . of worshipping and swearing by the lord and by malcham , zeph. . . and those prohibitions of not letting cattell gender with a diverse kind , of not sowing fields with mingled seed , of not wearing garments mingled of linned and wollen , of not sowing of vineyards of divers seeds , and of not ploughing with an oxe and an asse together . levit. . . deut. . , . . thesis . god both foretels and promises in his word , and that more particularly of the dayes of the gospel , to give one heart and one way to his people ; and as there shall be one lord , so his name shall be one , and that they shall all call upon the name of the lord , to serve him with one consent , jer. . . ezek. . . zeph. . . zach. . . christ praies earnestly to his father for beleevers that they all may be one and that they may be perfect in one , john : , , . and there are many exhortations to christians to be of one mind , and of the same mind in the lord , to be of one accord , of one mind , all to speak the same thing , that there be no schisms among them , but that they be perfectly joyned together in the same mind and in the same judgement , and that they keep the unity of the spirit in the bond of peace , cor. . . philip. . . philip. . . cor. . . ephes . . . now what god hath promised and foretold , what christ hath prayed for in a speciall manner , what the apostles in their epistles have so pathetically intreated and exhorted to , that christians should especially labour after , and all the meane tending thereunto ; which the desiring and granting of a toleration of all wayes , or many wayes , must needs be contrary unto . . thesis . a toleration and sufferance but of any one or two false ways and worships fights directly against these and many such like places of scripture , for we can do nothing against the truth but for the truth , cor. . . buy the truth and sell it not , prov. . . be valiant for the truth , strive for the faith of the gospel , be zealous , beware of false prophets , beware of dogs beware of evill workers , beware of the coucision , a man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject . they that keep the law contend with the wicked , pauls not giving place to false brethren , no not for an houre that the truth of the gospel might continue . paul and barnabas having no small dissention and disputation with those who taught circumcision , if there come any unto you and bring not this doctrine , receive him not into your house , neither bid him god speed , the angel of ephesus his commendation for that he could not beare them which are evill , and which say they are apostles , and are not , and for hating the deeds of the nicolaitans , the angels of the churches of pergamus and thyatira being threatned by christ for suffering them that held the doctrine of balaam , the doctrine of the nicolaitans , and that woman jez abel which called her selfe a prophetesse , to teach and to seduce his servants . . thesis . whereas a particular partiall toleration offends against many particular places of scripture , a vniversall toleration is against all scripture , goes against the whole current , scope and sense of scripture both in the old and new testament , both in matters of faith and manners , both in the generall rules and commands , and the particular , and that both in personall actions , and in all relations to others : the sum of the scriptures is faith and good life , and the end of the severall states appointed by god , both politicall , ecclesiasticall and oeconomicall , are to maintain and continue these : now a generall toleration of all religions and consciences is diametically opposite to all these , against the whole will of god overthrowing all that god in the scripture expresses of sins , duties and relations . i would have any thing in the scripture named in point of faith , holinesse , in the relations of magistrates , ministers , governours of families , which this toleration some way or other does not make void . other errors and heresies , as arrianisme , anabaptisme , &c. do not offend against all scripture , but against such and such places ; but this generall toleration throws down all at once , it overthrows the scriptures , in that it allowes a liberty of denying the scriptures to be the word of god , in that it sets up the conscience above the scriptures , making every mans conscience , even the polluted defiled seared consciences the rule of faith and holinesse , before the pure and unerring word of god , crying out that men must do according to their consciences , but never speaking of going according to the word of god ; yea setting up mens fancies , humours , factions , lusts , under the name of conscience , above the word of god , which is to set up the creature , yea the corrupted defiled creature above god , and to make mans conscience greater then god , whereas god is greater then mens consciences , john . . . thesis . the complaints , prohibitions , comminations , with the commands , directions , cautions against giving way unto , tolerating of and following many wayes in religion , and for contending for the faith , buying the truth , &c. though delivered , and run in generall , they bind ( as other scriptures do ) all the severall sorts of men , every one pro cujusque officii ratione , the minister in his way according to his office , and the magistrate in his way , and the master of a family in his place , and every private christian in his way to suppresse error , and promote the truth ; yea the commands and precepts which in the letter and primarily belong to men of such a particular relation , the father , master , minister as being directed by name to them , do also concern magistrates , by the common rules of interpretation of scripture , given by divi●es , of a synecdoche , of analogie and proportion , of common equity , and by the way of the scripture it selfe in applying what 's spoken at first hand to particular persons in such a speciall relation to all christians , joshua . . compared with heb. . . what to magistrates , to church governours , deu. . . deut. . . compared with tim. . , . with many other such instances that might be given , the commands of god being exceeding broad , as david speaks , psal . . the fifth commandment which in the letter mentions the naturall parents , as is evident by many other scriptures , particularly that of ephes . . , , , . commands the duties of magistrates to their subjects , of ministers to their people , as all divines upon that commandment grant . the fourth commandment that in the letter is directed to the father of the family , for his family to keep the sabbath , comprehends also the magistrate : the father of the family is a synecdoche including the magistrate ; and therein the holy ghost laies downe not only what lies upon the master of every family , but also what is the magistrates duty , as * zanchius , chemnitius , and many other learned divines show in their expositions upon this fourth commandement , all of them upon this commandement writing of the publick worship of god , and the magistrates duty to see it preserved , and the prophanation of it punished , and all under the name of the father of the family . . thesis . what god in his word commands or forbids private single persons for themselves and their owne practise as considered personally , viz. to learne to know god , feare the lord , follow him only , and not follow not serve any strange god , to have no fellowship with idols , not the unfruitfull works of darknesse , and such like , unto all persons whom he hath set over others , and in any relation given them power and authority over them , as ministers , parents , masters , husbands , be commands and forbids the same not only for themselves in their owne persons ( that 's not all , that will not discharge them ) but to them for all under their command , they must see to it and use their interest , power and authority to cause all under them to do so likewise , and not suffer them to go on in false wayes , as these scriptures among many other prove , 〈◊〉 . . verse . ezadus . verse . deut , . . , . ephes . . . every private servant of god must keep the wayes of god ; but abraham who is set over others must command his children and his houshold after him to keep the way of the lord , every israelite must keep the sabbath day holy , but the governour of the family must besides his own keeping it , see to it that all in his family sanctifie the sabbath , 't is the duty of all the israel of god to love the lord their god with all their heart , and to feare the lord only , but parents must besides their personal loving and fearing god , whet upon their children diligently and talk to them of the commands of god , and bring them up in the 〈◊〉 and feare of the lord ; each person should work out his own salvation , but a minister must save others besides himselfe , and watch for other mens soules , use authority for edification ; hence in many places we shall finde it written in scripture of persons in relations of authority to others , that they both undertake for their families , and that their families walked as they walked ; so joshu● , i and my houshold will serve the lord ; thus david , psal . . verse , , . so the centurion , a devout man and one that feared god with all his house ; and in timothy there was unfained faith which dwelt first in his grandmother loit , and in his mother e●●ice , and then in him . . thesis . there can be no reason in the world given , that all other persons in relations who have authority over others , as masters , fathers , mothers , tutors , husbands , ministers , should be bound to have a care in matters of religion over their children , servants , &c. and a power of commanding and making them outwardly to worship god and keep his way ( so 't is said of abraham , he will command his children , * make his children and servants know that he is their father and their master ; so speaks the fourth commandement to the father of the family , thou , nor thy sonne , nor thy daughter , thy m●n-servant , &c. t is not said , do thou remember that thou keep holy the sabbath day , but thou shalt admonish thy sonne and thy daughter that they also sanctifie it ; god doth not say so , but thus , remember that thou sanctifie it , and that all others that are thine , sanctifie it ) and that princes and magistrates who are the highest pow-powers , and have the greatest authority on earth ( who externally and politically have a power over ministers , parents , masters , to rectifie their male administration ( as is evident by many instances in scripture ) who can also help and remedy evils in cases where parents , masters , ministers cannot , and have many advantages to bring men to good above others ) should not have a power over their subjects to command them to the worship of god and restraine them from idolatry and heresie . hence 't is a good saying of zanchie on the fourth commandement * every father of a family can and ought to force his family to the outward worship of god ; why should not the magistrate also his subjects ? i desire some reason may be showne why the talents of authority and power in all other hands must be made use of for god in reference to the souls of men , and not in the hands of the magistrate ; and why parents , masters offend in not caring for their families in matters of religion , and the magistrate not . . thesis . the holy patriarchs , good judges , godly kings , and other pious magistrates spoken of in scripture , did de facto make use of their power and authority over others to suppresse false doctrine , false worship , false prophets , seducers , and to bring those under them to the true feare and worship of god ; they thought it their duty not only in their owne persons to keep to the word of god and to serve him , and to bring their children to it , but to command all under their government to the true worship of god , forbidding and suppressing all other . it would fill a book to relate and open all the particulars concerning religion , in commanding the true , destroying the false , and punishing false prophets , idolaters , apostates , recorded in the scriptures of abraham , jacob , moses , joshua , gedeon , jehosaphat , asa , hezekiah , josiah , manasseh after his conversion , nehemiah , with many others . i shall set downe some particulars of some of them . abraham the patriarch was a magistrate , a great prince , that had three hundred and eighteene servants armed trained men borne in his house , he had not only the covenant in his owne flesh , but he made all that were borne in his house , and all that were bought with his money to be circumcised genes . . he cast also out of his familie , hagar the bond-woman , and scoffing persecuting ismael , born after the flesh , genes . . compared with galath . . , . and genes . . god saith of him , i know that he will command his children and his houshold after him , and they shall keep the way of the lord ; upon which place master * cheynel a learned divine of the assembly writes thus : abraham did not leave his children and servauts to their owne genius , their owne councels , their owne lusts , though 't is certaine that divers of them would have thancked him for such a liberty ; for they had been nursed up in superstition and idolatry as abraham was , and might have pretended that they were not satisfied in point of conscience ; but abraham knew how to distinguish between liberty of conscience and liberty of lust , and therefore would not allow them such a liberty as would have enticed them into the worst kind of bondage . * pareus also , god uses the word command , that parents and superiours may understand that they are not overly and slightly , but diligently , and with authority to do their duty to bring their inferiours to the feare and obedience of god. jacob the patriarch , genes . . , , . said to his houshold , and to all that were with him ( all under his power protection ) put away the strange gods that are among you , and be cleane , and change your garments . and they gave unto jacob all the strange gods which were in their land , and all their ear-rings which were in their eares , and jacob hid them under the oake which was by shechem . pareus upon the place showes that they that were with jacob made distinct from his houshold , were those sichemits that were taken captive by the sonnes and servants of jacob who had brought their idols with them , and observes that as 't is the office of a good master of a family in his house , so of a magistrate in the common-wealth to take away idols and instruments of idolatry , and other lets of true conversion to god. jehosaphat , asa , hezekiah , josiah , those excellent princes made use of their power and the authority of their places in their kingdomes and territories , to put down and suppresse false worships and wayes , to punish false prophets , idolatrous priests , and the people who went after them , to establish the true faith and worship of god , and to command and cause all their people by lawes and their authority to stand to their reformations ; yea manasseh who had been so wicked , presently upon his conversion , chron. . , . rested not in his own repentance that he knew that the lord was god , but he took away the strange gods , all the altars , and cast them out of the city , and repaired the altar of the lord , and commanded judah to serve the lord god of israel : as before he had made them to erre by his place , and power , verse . so now he made them to serve the lord god of israel . asa that good king , chron. . and . chap. by his kingly power took away all idolatry and false worship , and that not only out of the land of judah and benjamin , but out of the cities which he had taken from mount ephraim , the strangers of ephraim , manasseh , and out of simeon , all under his power and jurisdiction , though of the ten tribe● , and accounted strangers after the revoult ; yea , hee destroyed the idoll of his queene mother . secondly , hee setled and renewed the true worship of god renewing the altar of the lord , and entring into a covenant to seek the lord god. thirdly , he commanded judah to seek the lord god , and to do the law and the commandment , and to enter into a covenant to bind themselves more to the right seeking of god. fourthly , he punished those under his government who went contrary , viz. they should be put to death who would not enter into this covenant , or having entred into it , should fall from it , and his queen mother he removed from being queen , because she had made an idol in a grove , that is , he deprived his mother of all dignity and authority which she had by custome . jehosophat used his authority when he came to be king to take away the high places and groves out of judah , and from * beersheba to mount ephraim from south to north , from one end of his kingdome to another he brought his people unto god from whom they had fallen , ( for the kingdome of judah from the dayes of asa was extended to mount ephraim . ) hezekiah when he came to the kingdome remoued the high places and images , cut down the groves , broke in pieces the brazen serpent ; he and his princes gave out a commandment , and established a decree for the keeping of the passeover , and for the turning of the people unto god , and he restored the true worship of god , and commanded the priests and the people to do their duties in their severall places . josiah that godly prince , first , he removed and destroyed the high places , groves , carved images , molten images , the altars of baalim and all the idols out of all the land , he took away the horses given to the sun , he defiled topheth , brake down the houses of the sodomites , and purged the land of all the abominations . secondly , he put down all the idolatrous priests , and all other priests that had burnt incense upon the high places , and slew all the priests of the high places upon the altars . thirdly , he restored the true worship of god , made a covenant with god to that end , and commanded the people to keep the passeover , and to performe the covenant . fourthly , he caused all that were present in jerusalem and benjamin to stand to the covenant , and made all that were present in israel to serve , even to serve the lord their god , chron. . , . * that is all that were under his jurisdiction he kept them in such awe by his regall authority and penall lawes , as they durst not but stand to the covenant . . thesis . as de facto 't is evident in the examples related ( besides divers others recorded in scripture ) that good magistrates did alwayes meddle for god and his truth , against false worship and seducers , so that they did it de jure , and ought to do so is as clear from the approbations , speciall testimonies , promises , rewards and blessings given by god of them , made to them , and bestowed by god on them for so doing . there 's hardly any place mentioning what the patriarchs , judges , kings , magistrates did in this kind , but there 's some commendation , some blessing , some speciall testimony from god for so doing recorded in those places , chron. . , , . asa did that which was good and right in the eyes of the lord his god , for he took away the altars of the strange gods and the high places , &c. so 't is said of jehosophat , hezekiah , josiah , they did that which was right in the fight of the lord , are highly commended , have many blessings upon themselves and their kingdoms , and all for commanding by their princely power their subjects to good , and removing all false worship and the means of it . god will not hide from abraham the thing that he was doing concerning sodom , and the reason is given , because he will command his children and his houshold after him to keep the way of the lord. iacob took away the strange gods from his houshold and all that were with him , and god manifests his approbation of it , the terror of god was upon the cities round about iacob , and they did not pursue after the sonnes of iacob ; yea god gives such testimony to princes and magistrates suppressing false prophets and false worships , that he hath rewarded with temporall blessings wicked kings for so doing , as is evident in iehu , who for destroying baal out of israel , though he departed not from the finnes of ieroboam , yet his children of the fourth generation should sit on the throne of israel , kings . , , . . thesis . those magistrates , judges and princes , even the dear servants of god , who being in place of authority and power , that out of carnall respects to wives , children and other interests , have suffered and tolerated idolatry and other evils ( though they in their owne persons never practised , much lesse commanded any such things , nay disswaded from them ) and not used their power to restraine and hinder them , have been both sharply reproved and severely punished by god for it : king solomon having power to hinder his wives from idolatry , and not doing it , but suffering them , god is provoked to bring wrath upon him and his family , king. . , , , , , . , , . to rend the kingdome from him , to stirr up an adversary unto solomon , hadad the edomite . t is the opinion of many good * divines , and that upon the first of kings , ch . . and in answer to the arminians upon that article of falling from grace , that solomon did not bring or admit idols into the house of god , neither did he command the people , that either they should forsake the true worship of god , or worship idols , neither can it be proved that he did in his owne person worship idols . this is only certaine that being bewitched by his idolatrous wives , he suffered them to build altars and high places , or at most commanded them to be built , and this the word in the hebrew vers . . with thee , not of thee , implies as much , for as much as this is done with thee , implying done in his kingdom , and neer ierusalem , though not by solomon himselfe . eli being a judge , because when his sonnes made themselves vile , ht restrained them not , redressed not their corruptions and abuses about the sacrifices , though he reproved and disswaded them from their wayes by many strong arguments , therefore god brought fearfull ruine upon him and his house , cutting off his arme , and the arme of his fathers house , &c. as in sam. , , . chap. 't is laid down at large . . thesis . whereas the patrons of toleration except against the instances of the judges , magistrates and kings of iudah and israel as no sufficient proof for magistrates power in suppressing falshood , and commanding men to receive the truth , because they were typicall kings , types of christ as king of his church , and the land of canaan a typicall land , which no other magistrates or land beside ever were or are ; i desire that it may be remembred that other magistrates , judges , and princes who were before the common wealth of israel was erected and the judiciall lawes given , and of other common-wealths and kingdoms did take away and punish idolatry , blasphemy , and command men under their power to worship god , and some such examples are not only barely related in the scripture , but approved of . abraham , jacob and job were before the time of moses and aaron , before the judiciall lawes or the leviticall priesthood for the government and worship of the jewish church and common-wealth were given . for abraham and jacob that 's evident by the book of genesis , and for job , that he lived in the time between abraham and moses is the judgement of many good divines and interpreters upon job , and that upon severall reasons given by them , of which the reader may read more in bucolcerus , pineda , junius and tremellius , * mercerus , master carylls expositions on job , and divers others . now of abraham and iacobs commanding their children , servants , and all that were with them to keep the way of the lord , i have spoken of in the tenth thesis . and that in iobs time , and that out of the land of canam in the land of vz ( no typicall land ) idolatry and false worship were to be punished by the magistrates , is apparent by iob , , . where iob speaks of himselfe , if i beheld the sun when it shined , or the moon walking in brightnesse , and my heart hath been secretly intised or my mouth hath kissed my band : this also were an iniquity to be punished by the iudge : for i should have denied the god that is above , the meaning of which place according to the judgement of the best interpreters , mercer , merlinus , iunius , pineda and others is that idolatry and worshiping the creatures , as sun , moon , and the heavens ( a worship much in use in the east where iob lived ) was an iniquity worthy to be taken notice of and punished by the judges : so mercer reads it , digna est , it deserves and ought to be punished by the judges ; and then observe the reason , for i should have denied the lord that is above : so that all false worship and false doctrine that denies god that is above , is worthy to be punished by the judges ; and this is further proved and illustrated that idolatry is to be punished by judges corporally , by the , , . verses of this chapter , where he speaks the same of adultery , that 't is an iniquity to be punished by the iudges , so that the spirit of god here in iob makes adultery and idolatry of the same cognizance , and as adultery is to be punished by the civill magistrate , so idolatry and all false wayes whereby men deny the god that is above , are by this scripture to be punished also . and that it may further appear the kings of iudah and israel did not qua kings of iudah and qua dwelling in such a land , as kings over such a typicall people , bearing visibly , and executing typically the kingly office of christ in his church , meddle in matters of religion , but as kings in places of authority and power , i shall show that other kings , not of the tribe of iudah , ruling over other kingdomes and countries , when by any of the great works of god done before them , or upon any instinct of the spirit of god upon them by any message from god by his prophets and servants , they came to be touched in heart and sensible of themselves , they used their power in making lawes and edicts for the worship of god against blasphemy and idolatry , and for punishing of those who were idolaters and blasphemers . thus artaxerxes the king of persia , ezra . makes a decree that whosoever will not do the law of god , judgement shoule be executed speedily upon him , whether it be unto death , or unto banishment , or to confiscation of goods , or to imprisonment ; and ezra blesseth god for it , which showes it was well done of art●xerxes . now whereas * master goodwin would evade this by saying ezra blesses god for artaxerzes beautifying the house of god only , not for the decree of punishing those that would not do the law of god , i answer , that 's a part indeed of that he blesses god for , but not all , as is evident by the . verse , his blessing god having relation to that also as may appeare by that copulative and hath extended mercy unto me before the king , and i was strengthned as the hand of the lord my god was upon me : and i gathered together out of israel chief men to go up with me ; now let the . verse that speaks of artaxerxes decree to ezra to set magistrates and judges to judge all the people , and thereupon who will not do the law of god to have judgement executed upon them whether it be unto death , &c. be laid to the . verse , wherein hee blesses god for his hand upon him to gather chief men out of israel to goe up with him ( which was to make magistrates and judges ) and 't is evident the decree for punishing is included ; besides , if this decree of artaxerx●s had beene according to master goodwine , the bloudy tenet , and other libertines opinion such a wicked and bloudy doctrine , ezra the priest the scribe of the law of the god of hea●en had beene bound to have instructed artaxerxes better , and humbly entreated him to have reversed that part of the decree in the . verse , and certainly would never have built up artaxerxes in such a great sin by blessing god for his decree , and by taking care to set up magistrates and iudges to execute it , but would have dealt clearly with the king , blessing god for the decree of the building of the temple , and showing him his mistake in the other part about punishing ; and to put it past question , ezra . verse , . relates , this decree of the king was accordingly put in execution by ezra and the princes and elders , proclamations being made throughout iudah and ierusalem , unto all the children of the captivity that they should gather themselves together unto ierusalem ; and that whosoever would not come within three dayes according to the councel of the princes and the elders , all his substance should be forfeited , which was one of the penalties of artaxerxes decree , viz. confiscation of goods . nebuchadnezar , dan. . , , . as soone as he knew god upon that great work of gods power in delivering the three children out of the fiery furnace , made a decree that whosoever should speak any thing amisse against him , should be cut in pieces and their houses made a dunghill . darius , dan. . , . upon gods great work in delivering daniel out of the lions den , made a decree that in every dominion of his kingdome men tremble and feare before the god of daniel . lastly , the king of niniveh upon ienabs preaching , yet forty dayes and niniveh shall be destroyed , did not only in his owne person arise from his throne and cover himselfe with sackcloth , and sit in ashes , but caused it to be proclaimed and published by his decree that all his subjects should do the like , cry mightily unto god , and turne from their evill wayes ; and this turning of niniveh upon the command and edict of the king is blessed by gods repenting of the evill that he said he would do unto them , and so gods owne seale of approbation set to the king of ninivebs edict for commanding in matters of religion . augus●ine in his * . epistle ad bonifacium , makes use of the examples of the king of niniveh , darius and nebuchadonezar to show how a king must serve god as a king by commanding good things , and forbidding the contrary , as the king of niniveh served god by compelling the whole city to please god , as nebuchadnezar served him by recalling all in his kingdome from blaspheming god by a severe law. . thesis . as for that which is commonly said by the patrons of tol●ration , that what the iudges , magistrates , kings of israel and iudah , did in a coer●ive way in matters of religion in israel and iudah , they did it not by vertue of their office as ordinary kings and magistrates towards their subjects , but as kings in a peculiar and extraordinary notion , as typicall kings , types of christ the king of the church , executing typically his kingly office , the people also and the very land over which they ruled , being typicall , which no kings not people under heaven at this day are , and that therefore their practises cannot be drawn into example by any christian magistrates now . i desire the reader well to observe these following answers , and the rather because the maine strength of the sectaries discourse upon this subject hangs by this string , and this thred runs all along throughout their works . m. s. the bloudy tenet , the antient bounds or liberty of conscience stated , the storming of antichrist with many others place all their confidence here , and this is their sheild and buckler , making much use of this typicalnesse under the old testament to evade all the instances of kings and magistrates brought from thence . first , to make this good , there are some things supposed or asserted for proof very uncertain , doubtfull , other things absurd and untrue ; as first , that to be a type of christ is a sufficient ground of a politicall civill power over the church , and that typicalnesse , qua , typicalnesse gives those perso●s a power , who otherwise have none ; the contrary unto which is in severall reasons proved by doctor * stewart in the second part of his duply to m. s. page . and never yet answered by m. s. or any other , though m. s. and many of his brethren have written upon that argument since . secondly , z that he who was head of the state was head also of the church in a typicall way , whereas many great divines are of another judgement , and show that the kings of judah and the civill judicatures were formally distinct from the ecclesiasticall , and that he who was cheif in the state over civill matters , was not cheif iudge and officer in the church in an ecclesiasticall and spirituall notion , of which point master r●●herford and master gil●espie having written so fully lately , i shall spare to speak any thing , and referre the reader to their learned books enti●uled * the divine right of church government , aarons rod blossoming . thirdly , that the people of the iewes were interchangably a church and a nation , so that whoever was a member of the church was a member of the common-wealth , and vice versa , of which see the book entituled the antient bounds or liberty of conscience seated , page . now master gillespie in his aarons rod blossoming , book . chap. . proves strongly that the iewish church was formally distinct from the iewish state , and that in seven particulars , as in respect of distinct lawes , distinct acts , distinct officers , so in respect of distinct members , there being members of the church among them , who had the name of ▪ proselyti iustitiae , and were initiated into the iewish religion by circumcision , sacrifice , &c. that neverthelesse were restrained and secluded from dignities , government and preferment in the iewish common-wealth , and from divers matriages which were free to the israelites . master selden also in that learned . book of his , de jure natur. & gentium , lib. . cap. . lib. . cap. . speaks as much of those proselytes . proselytus justitiae utcunque novato patriae nomine iudaeu● diceretur , non tam quidem , ci● is iudaicus simpliciter censendus esset quam peregrinus sempe● , cui jura quamplurima inter cives . secondly , how do they prove that iehu , ioash , manasseh , asa , hezekiah , iebosophat , iosiah , were types of christ , and did execu●e typically the kingly office of christ in his church , were kings in an ecclesiasticall notion an , extraordinary way , not ruling only for the church , but in the church , and over it , as * they say . moses , ioshua , david , solomon , were in their persons , places and actions , expresse types of iesus christ ( as 't is evident in the new testament ) pen-men also of scripture , besides prophets as well as magistrates , and so were extraordinary men , that every thing they did in religion is not a binding example to magistrates now as many * reformed divines have showen against the arminians and erastians , but that asa , iosiah , hezekiah , iehosaphat were , is gratis dictum , not yet proved , neither were these pen-men of holy ▪ scripture , or prophets extraordinarily inspired , but these foure great reformers as kings were stirred up , enquiring after , and directed by prophets , as the reader may finde clearly in the stories of them in the chronicles and kings . besides i finde not among * divines who have written of the types of christ , or * who grant moses , david , solomon to be expresse types that they make asa , iosiah , &c. to be types . again of types of christ ( as divines distinguish ) there are particular persons types of him as adam , noah , isaac , joseph , moses , joshua , samson , david , solomon , jonah , and there are such rancks and orders of men , as the first-born , kings , prophets , &c. now though all of the first sort are speciall particular types of him , so that the speciall things done by them do typifie and set forth christ in many particulars of his person , actions and sufferings : yet the rancks and orders of men as the first-born , kings , prophets , may not be typicall in all the particular persons of those ranks and orders , at least to the particular acts they do in those ranks and orders : but 't is enough for many in those orders to agree in common , as in being kings and prophets , as christ was , there being some in all those orders and ranks appointed of god especially and peculiarly to be the types , which others are not , and for whose sakes in those orders and ranks , such orders of men were instituted by god to be types , of which many instances might be given with the reasons thereof in some of the first-born , kings , &c. but i shall reserve the further handling of that to a second part upon this subject . lastly , supposing asa , josiah , and those godly kings to be types of christ , may it not be doubted whether jehu , ieboash , ammon , ieroboam , &c. were types of christ , and did execute his kingly office , who yet were commended , viz. the two fir●t , for destroying false worship , and reproved for not doing it constantly ; besides could those kings of israel and iudah ( who yet were lawfull kings ) that apostatised from all the whole worship of god , the ceremoniall law that ordained the types , that destroyed gods service and the priesthood , made priests of the lowest of the people , be types of christ ? and i desire to be resolved or m. s. the author of the antient bounds of liberty of conscience stated , whether any wicked men were speciall types of christ , and whether all persons who were types of christ were not saved . thirdly suppose these kings of iudah were types of christ in setting on the thron of david , and ruling over iudah , in christ the king of his church coming out of their loines , yet they were temporall kings , had civill authority : now how does it appear that what they did in punishing idolatrous priests , comm●nding their subjects to the true worship of god , they did only as . types by vertue of that notion , and not as they were temporall kings , which must be proved before their examples can be made null ; and i am sure the scripture no where faith that the kings of iudah and israel in what they commanded in matters of religion , they did as types of christ , and not as civill magistrates : 't is one thing to be a type , and another thing to doe such things meerly qua types ; and what if christian magistrates leaning upon this broken staffe , suffering all herefies , blasphemies and idolatries in their kingdomes , christ at the last day when they stand before the judgement feat , they objecting for themselves the kings of israel and iudah were types of christ and all they did was by vertue of their typicall notion , shal tell them no , but as magistrates entrusted by god with a power and authority , how will they be then confounded ? will this distinction and notion found out by libertines deliver from the wrath to come ? had not princes need be on better grounds then apocryphall notions , such distinctions of which god in his . word never gave any foundation ? but besides the apocryphalnesse of this notion , that these kings reformed religion not meerly quae types , but as kings and princes over subjects , may be proved thus . first , because magistrates before them , and magistrates of other common-wealths did so , as is largely shown in the twelfth th●sis . secondly , types were not ordained by the politicall or morall law , as magistrates and their authority , but by the ceremoniall law. thirdly , for that which they say the kings of israel , the iews and their land were types of , and that which by their kings punishing idolaters and seducers was typified , namely spiritual censures under the gospel of excomm●nication and casting out of the wicked from the churches of the gospel , 't is denied they were types of the christian church in respect of the civill state , but of the spirituall and ecclesiasticall government by church officers ; so the land of canaan was a type of heaven , not as it contained the civill state , but the church ; it being a type of heaven before they had possession of it , or their civill state and government set up , and yet no type of heaven till the people of god had a promise of it , 〈◊〉 is evident by laying the scriptures of the old and new testament together . and as for those punishments inflicted by kings typifying the censures under the gospel , we must know that all the spiritual censures of admonition , suspension , excommunication , were under the old testament in the time of the kings of iudah , and that not only for ceremoniall uncleannesses , but for morall and scandalous fin● , all which is fully proved by master gillaspie at large in his a●rous rod blossoming , book , , , , , , . . chapters . fourthly , granting what these libertines say that the kings of judah were types of christ , and in what they did they aypified christs kingly office , yet this cannot enervate the examples of these kings , unlesse doing things as a type , and as a morall example , could not stand in one and the same person , which is not so : some particular persons may be intended by god types of christ ( the highest kind of type ) and their action intended to typifie speciall works of christ , and yet those very action● may be morall and binding all in such relations whose persons nor actions can in no kind be judged typicall , and the reason of it is , because god may serve himself of a person or office doing things commanded in the moral law to make a type of , ●nd though god intends such a man by such and such actions to make him a type , yet the man may not know so much , nor intend any such thing in such actions , but do all by vertue of a morall command ; and for the better understanding of this , let the reader consider that in some persons the same actions may be both typicall and morall , extraordinary in regard of the ma●●er and some circumstances , and ordinary in regard of the matter and substance , typicall as typifying christ and what he should do , and yet mo●all duties which he ought to do , and all others also in such relations : so that though some persons be types , and the things they do typicall , yet they may be morall too , and so binding , which though as they were typicall they may be taken away , yet as they were morall may be in full force ; as for example , christ was figured in joseph , ioseph was an eminent type of christ * in the first ●ank of types as a singular person typifying him , not as a rank or order of men by office only as those kings of iudah spoken of , and among other things he was a type in feeding his father and his brethren , that when advanced in the kingdome he provided for , and nourished his fathers house , which typified iesus christ feeding the family of god , and preserving the church alive . now though ioseph in this action was a type of christ , and did it typically , yet not only typically , but did this morally and naturally too by vertue of the fifth commandement , and sixth commandement , of childrens duty to their parents , and of preserving life ; and by vertue of this example of ioseph every man in high place and rich , is bound to send for and provide for father and brethren in a necessitous condition ; and suppose now a man in iosephs condition should have father and brethren in want , whom he should neglect , and being pressed by iosephs example to provide for them , he should answer iosephs practise was nothing to him , for he was a type of christ , and typified christs feeding of his church not with temporall food only , but with the manna from heaven , the word and sacraments , i aske of those who plead this argument of typicalnesse , whether this were a good answer ? and if not , neither is theirs against the practise of the kings of iudah from being types of christ ; and i wish the pleaders for toleration would serious consider of , and resolve this question , though ioseph was a speciall type of christ , and in this action of preserving his father and brethren a type of christs preserving his church , yet whether this action of his to his father , brethren and their children , do not bind now in the dayes of the gospel children to their fathers &c. or whether the typicalnesse of it hath caused it to cease ? and in the resolution of this case , the ingenuous reader may see what to judge of the typicalnesse of the kings of iudah , and that typicalnesse of persons and actions does not presently make all such persons and actions that they cannot be examples or rules to others who are not typicall . the prophets and propheticall office were types of christ as well as the kings of iudah ; and yet actions they did that were some way typicall and extraordinary , bind christians under the gospel for the substance and matter , and are set before them for example , as eli●● a type , and in his prayer a type , yea somewhat in it extraordinary , is by iames propounded in prayer as a patterne and a proof of effectuall servent prayer to righteous men under the gospel , iames . , , . in hebrews . many are named who in their persons were undoubted types of christ , as noah , isaac , joseph , moses , samson , david , and others , who if not types in their persons , yet were in an extraordinary way , as abraham , iacob , gideon , iephtah , &c. now in the point of faith and patience ( though types or extraordinary persons ) are set down for examples and patterns to christians under the new testament , hebrews . verse , . i could give many more instances of types and extraordinary persons , whom in morall practicall things , matters of faith , holinesse , righteousnes ( though they did such things extraordinarily , and as types of christ either personally or officially ) christians in an ordinary way are commanded to follow , and therefore in the present case the vindicating of and promoting of the glory of god , the punishing of evill doers ( which blasphemers , hereticks , and scismaticks are ) the commanding good , being morall-practicall things of perpetuall reason and equity bind all those in authority and government according to their places , though they be no types nor extraordinary persons . fifthly , if this evasion of the kings of israel and iudah about typicalnesse be good , by the same reason it may hold against . magistrates punishing under the gospel for matters of the second table , murther , adultery , &c. for may not the socinians and anabaptists , who deny christian magistrates may punish capitally for murther , treason , &c. say the same thing against all the examples of magistrates and kings under the old law punishing with death for such offences , that they were types , and that people and land typicall , which no magistrate nor people are now , and what ever can be said upon this ground against princes meddling in matters of religion , may as well be said against their punishing in civill matters , and anabaptists , and socinians may as well say those kings were types of christ in respect of their power over the state as over the church ; and if they should affirm it , how would it be disproved ? and the bloudy ●tene● ▪ pag. . grants that in the land of israel all things , their civils , morals and naturals , were carried on in types as well as their spirituals and ecclesiasticals ; yea by this ground what ever shall be brought out of the old testament to show the duty of magistrates , or the qualifications of them , as that they that rule over men must be just , fearing god , hating covetousnesse , courageous , &c. it may be answered , that was required of those who were typicall , and their people typicall , but it concerns not magistrates now ; and yet higher , by this evasion men may reason against all instances out of the old testament brought from fathers , masters , to bring up their children in the feare of god , &c. because the first-borne , such fathers and masters of families were typicall , and their children typicall , which fathers are not under the gospel . sixthly , if this answer of typicalnesse may hold , all those kings and princes actions and practises in other things of morall particular duties , as prayer , mourning for sinne , giving god thanks for deliverances , &c. are taken away from binding now , as well as their acts of power and authority ; and when ministers bring these examples of david , iosiah , hezekiah , &c. in such things , it may be said they were types of christ , and did them as types of something to come : the antinomian may upon this ground answer the example of davids praying so often and constantly , and of mourning for his sinnes , by saying david was a type of christ . seventhly , by this answer all the scriptures of the old testament , moses , psalms , prophets , with whatever of any duty cōmanded , or sin spoken against in any of these , are at once made void : for it may be said the pen-men were types , and given to a typicall people , written in a typicall land : it may be said of the whole morall law , that as moses in his person was a type of christ in many particulars , so in delivering the law he shadowed christ the mediatour , moses being a mediator betweene god and his people in giving the law , galat. . . the law was delivered in the hand of a mediator , that is moses , acts . . and therefore not binding to christians . and so it may be pretended of all things written in the psalms , prophets , and the other books that they were ( viz. the oracles of god ) committed to the jewes and the circumcision , rom. . . rom. . . which people and nation of israel were typicall of the true israel , the israel of god , galat. . . so the land of canaan was typicall of rest from 〈◊〉 , and of true rest , and the heavenly inheritance , hebr. . , , , ▪ , , . vers . and indeed what was not typicall some way or other in the jewish church and state , as the first-borne , the priests , kings , prophets , the land , the people , their worships , with many more particulars , so that if this answer stand good , all the scriptures of the old testament are overthrown , and all hereticks whatsoever , socinians , antinomians , familists , &c. may evade any scripture brought from thence , as well as the pleaders for toleration the examples of the kings of israel and judah . ly . all the actions and practises done by persons and things typicall are so farre from nothing concerning them who live under the gospel , that the scriptures of the new testament tell us , that many things under the old testament were made figures and type● for the admonitions and example of those in like cases under the new , and did teach to the uttermost , as the cor. . from the sixth verse to the twelfth , and that clause of promise in the fifth commandement , that thy dayes may be long upon the land which the lord thy god giveth thee , is meant of the land of canaan a typicall land , which yet did teach christians under the new testament , that obedience to their parents would bring a being well with them , and living long upon the earth ( though they had not the land of canaan ) as ephes . . , . . fully showes . saint paul also tells us , rom. . . that whatsoever things were written 〈◊〉 , were written for our learning , and so those magistrates and princes of israel and judah ( how ever they might typifie christs kingdome ) they were such types spoken of in cor. . viz. examples to christian magistrates to teach them to do so likewise , as fathers then were to teach fathers now to instruct their children , and therefore though such an order of men as kings in israel might be intended to typifie christs kingdom , yet that no way hinders , but what they did as kings in ruling and ordering of their subjects , they performed as the proper works of their places common to them with other princes , without any reference to their being types , or doing them as types , god in scripture recording all along what they did , as going upon common morall grounds , and speaking nothing of them in their reformations as in a figurative typicall notion . and in the close of my answer to this evasion of the instances of the kings of judah , i shall hint to the reader to consider some notes of distinction between actions meerly typicall and fulfilled in the antitype , done only to represent and shadow forth what christ was to do , and mixt actions , morall and typicall too , or at least the actions of one who by person or order is a type ; and upon search it will be found that all the notes of actions morall , not meerly typicall , will be found in the practises of those ks of judah and israel before named , as first , when their practises and wayes are not barely related , but commended and praised by god , wheras actions meerly typical are only related and set down , as in samson , and divers others ▪ secondly , when done upon morall grounds and reasons , motives drawn from mercies , blessings , evils , and judgements , commands and messages from god experiences of god , upon gods convincing and converting men . thirdly , when they of such an order and office are reproved and punished for not doing such things , or for not thoroughly doing them , whereas i suppose persons typicall , and whose actions are intended to be meerly typicall , will and shall do such things though they may not know the meaning of them , of which many instances might be given in some actions of samson , jonas and others . fourthly , when as their actions are sutable to those qualifications , titles and descriptions given in scripture of magistrates and that office in generall . fifthly , when what they do is agreeable and sutable to the commands and directions given by god to all of that order and rank , and they do in the matter of religion in commanding to good and suppressing evil , what all other magistrates have done in all times and ages , who have cared for any religion at all , as heathen princes before they knew the true god , and others after they have known him , however through ignorance or superstition they might mistake about the true way and worship : now let the reader but consider of all these notes of distinction , and others of the like nature that might be given , and he will find them agree to those kings jo●ia● , hezekiah , manasseh , asa , &c. for the substance of all they did in commanding their people to the right way ▪ and suppressing the false , and so much for answering of this evasion of the practise of the kings of israel and judah , which i have been the larger in , because so great a weight of this controversie on all the sectaries part lies on this typicalnesse both of the jewish magistrates and people . . thesis . as for that which is said by m. s. pag. . that idolatry and idolaters were the adaequate object of the coercive power of the kings of judah in matters of religion , and that idolatry meant not of those who worshiped the true god though in a false manner with the violation of the second commandement , but of such who apostatized from the god of israel to serve strange gods , the gods of other nations & those neither simply as such , but as drawing others away unto the same idolatries with them , but we never read of any coercive power or punishment inflicted upon hereticks or sismaticks which abounded in great variety and numbers amongst them , as the pharisees , herodians , &c. i answer , first , idolatry and idolaters were not the adaequate object of the kings and magistrates coercive power under the old testament , but generally the matter of the covenant , the whole worship and truth of god , as is apparent by the examples of josiah , hezekiah , asa , and jehosaphat , in putting downe and suppressing other evils besides idolatry , as will-worship , things abused to idolatry , prophanation of the sabbaths , marrying of strange wives , abuses in discipline and church government , prophaning chambers in the courts of the house of god , in commanding to keep the passeover , which though their subjects had not kept , they might not have been idolaters , in punishing those who were guilty only of wilworship , not of idolatry , as also those who married strange wives , who did common works on the sabbath day , who dealt with familiar spirits and wizards , of al which the reader may find proofs at large in these following script● cro. . , , . there 's a covenant made to keep al the testimonies and statutes of god , and the people are made to stand to it , from kings . verse , . compared with chron. . . . chron. . . chron. . . 't is evident there were in judah two sorts of high places some on which ▪ was god worshipped ; others on which idols were worshipped , the one sort was the high places of idolatry , the other the high places of will-worship ; yet the priests of the latter as well as of the former were punished by josiah , though not with the punishment of death as they were ▪ for he caused them to go out of all the cities of judah , and to cease from the priests office , so that they durst not come up to the altar of the lord at jerusalem . so nehem. . , . , , . . . . ezra . . . kings , , . secondly , the idolatry removed and punished by the jewish kings and magistrates , was as well of worshipping the true god in a false manner , as of those who worshipped false gods , the gods of the nations , and were apostates from the true god to other gods , as is evident by the instances of worshipping the golden calfe made by aaron , and worshipping of the golden calves at dan and bet●el set up by j●ro●oam , ( called idolatry , as in severall places of scripture ) by moses and some of the good kings as josiah removed , and the worshippers punished , and yet the people of israel in worshipping these did not go serve the gods of the nations , but served the god of israel as appears by those speeches of theirs , exod. . , , . to morrow is a feast to the lord , not to the golden calfe . kings . , . it is too much for you to go ●p to ierusalem , behold thy gods o israel which brought thee up out of the land of egypt ; and our most learned protestants in their writings against the papists , do prove the papists to be formall idolaters from their adoration of god and christ in images ( though they do not worship false gods , the gods of the heathen ) by these two examples of aarons golden calfe , and ier●●oams golden calves , showing the people of the jewes were not so mad as to beleeve those calves to be their god , or that brought them out of the ●and of egypt , being brought up hundreds of yeeres before , but only outward representations and remembrancers of god to them , in which they worshipped the true god , their worship being terminative related to god , and not to the image . ioshua . , . all the children of israel gathered themselves together to go up to warre against the children of ruben , the children of gad and the halfe tribe of manasse● upon supposition of their building an altar , not to strange gods , but for burnt offerings , or for sacrifices besides the altar of the lord god that was before his tacernacle , verse . . , . which they were diverted from upon being satisfied it was not an altar for burnt offerings , &c. but for a witnesse betweene them and the rest of the tribes that the lord is god , verse . . thirdly , the scripture is contrary also to that , that the grosest idolaters were not to be punished if not sed●cers drawing others away from the true god to strange gods , for we read that moses was so angry with the people that were seduced unto a lower kind of idolatry , viz. worshipping the true god by a calfe , that besides the three thousand men that were put to the sword the seducers and the ringleaders , he burned the calfe , ground it to pouder , strowed it upon the water , and made the children of israel drink of it , causing the idol to passe from them among their excrements . so chron. . . they that would not seek the lord god of israel whether small or great , the little ones ( who could not be in●i●ers of idolatry ) were to be punished . deut. . when one of the cities of israel was withdrawn to serve other gods , then the inhabitants of the city , the children as well as the grown men ( who could not withdraw from god ) were to be smitten . and we shall finde it all along in the book of the kings and chronicles among the idolaters and false worshippers , that there 's no such distinction made , but some of whom no such thing expressed , are removed and punished , as those who may be supposed were inticers to idolatry . fourthly , as for that the kings of judah asa , iosia , &c. never punished pharisees , herodians , or any other sect in the profession of the jewish religion , the reason is manifest , because there was none such till many hundred of yeeres after these kings , for these sects of pharisees ▪ &c. began very late , not long before the coming of christ , and as for herodian● they sprung up after herod was king ( which showes the great ignorance of m. s. speaking as if there had beene herodians in the dayes of asa , h●z●kiah , &c. ) but by the way if m. s. ●lias cretinsis can prove there were such in the dayes of those good kings i will undertake to prove that they used their co●rcive power towards them as well as towards idola●ers , and ●ndeed 't is evident by many passages that all kind of corruption and declination from the way of god was the object of josiah● and other magistrates reformation , and had there beene sadduces , herodians , &c. viz. men that had held those errors and wayes in those kings times , they could not have escaped their hands , and this is thus proved , because the high places not of idolatry , but of will-worship , where they sacrificed to the lord only , as t is chron . . were put down and the worshippers and priests suppressed , and those good kings who did not , are upon record blamed ( which kind of worshipping was not so bad as the herodians and sadduces , who held herod for the messias , and denied angels and spirits ) and that i may come up yet more close to m. s. objection , who saith nothing was done against sectaries or scismaticks , i conceive they were to the church of the jewes , as sectaries and scismaticks are now , and their worship a scisme , worshipping the true god in a separated way apart from the publike place and assemblies of gods people , as our sectaries do now . fifthly , the true reasons why , when the herodians , sadduces , &c. sprung up among the jewes , they were not suppressed not punished . first in regard religion was then mightily corrupted , all things were out of order , the church of the jewes did then hasten to their destruction , and so no wonder if heresies and false doctrines were suffered in such a state as well as other things . secondly , the jewes were not then a free people , neither had they the civill power absolutely in their hands , they had no truly * iewish king who cared for those things , but herod the idumean , and the high priest then could do nothing . thirdly , * god permitted iury to abound with diversity of sects in the dayes of herod , as the sadduces , essenes , the pharisees , the herodians , because he had a purpose to destroy the iewish common-wealth , and to bring all into subjection to christ , and the toleration of divers religions among them was the forerunner , and preparer of the way for the ruine of the iewish state , as it hath beene of many states . ly . supposing the kings of iuda● and israel de facto , had never exercised any coercive power on any other objects but idolaters and idolatry , and that all the commands in the old testament given to the iewish magistrates had beene in the letter of the text onely against idolaters and idolatry , ( which is not true ) yet by vertue of those very commands and examples magistrates might exercise a coercive power against evills of the like kind , though not in the letter specified ; and the reason is this , because the commands of god and the examples of good men accordingly recorded in scripture might in the letter ( at least for the generality ) be expressed only against those evills , and that kind and sort of them which were most in use in that age and time when they were given , and yet other kinds of those sins , or other sinnes as bad , or worse which should arise afterwards were by just analogie , common equity , by a synecdoche usuall in such commands forbidden also . as for example the second commandement forbids only in the letter and by name graven image , and the likenesse of any thing , and yet in that command all mediums of worships invented by men ( though not graven images nor likenesse ) are forbidden under the title of graven images and likenesse , and that by a synecdoche common in the decalogue , which because in those times of moses they were the chiefe inventions of m●n corrupting the worship of god , they are fitly put in the place of all humane inventions brought into the worship of god , of which the reader may finde more in doctor ames medul . theolog. . booke . chap. de cultu instituto . so because idolatry , and idolatry with apostafie to serve strange gods , the gods of those nations , whom god had cast out of the land of canaan ( there being many cananites , &c. among them ) were the corruptions the israelites were most in danger of , the idolatries most in use in those times , and by the nations round about them when they should come to canaan ( as is evident by many places of deutr. ) and the false prophets and seducers then went most about to seduce men in that way , therefore god in the letter ( as it was most needfull ) spoke by name against such prophets and such idolatry as were most stirring in those times , under which commands are forbidden by a synecdoche and by analogie other depravations of gods worship and name that might arise in after ages , for by the rules of interpretation of scripture given by divines , where a thing is forbid , there all of that nature and sort are forbidden also ; as for example , greater sinnes of that kinde , then those expressed in the letter must needs be forbidden , and so lesser also . now certainly where god hath given a command to magistrates in the letter to punish such offences , if his subjects commit greater and higher against god and his worship by the equity of this command he is to punish them ( if none in the letter for those ) as if there had been no command but against idolatry of such nations , yet worshipping the devill , offering up children to moloch , blaspheming god and his worship , with other such , ought to be restrained , and if they commit idolatry or other corruptions , not so great or so grosse , yet by way of proportion and equity such ought to be , though in a lower kind and way . and 't is evident by many instances that the iewish magistrates kings and others , as iosiah nehemiah , &c. did punish in a proportion ( though not with death ) those who violated the worship of god , and the first table , though they were not guilty of idolatry and apostafie to worship other gods , nor of worshipping the true god by idols , as by the golden calves of jeroboam . and if that be good divinity which m. s. the father of that evafion of idolatry and idolaters being the adaequate object of the coercive power of the kings of judah in matters of religion , hath pag. . of the same book , that god prohibiting all manner of violence , oppression and hard measure among his people one towards another , though such lawes as those in the letter of them respected only civil transfactions and dealings betweene men , yet the equity and spirit of them extends to spirituals also , men being every whit as liable to violence , oppression● and hard measure from men for their conscience sake as in any other respects , or upon any other grounds whatsoever , then from that command , deut. . , , , , . and from those examples of asa , iosiah , to inferre an equity of punishing other offences in the same kinde , though not named in the letter , must needs be better divinity , because every one cannot but conceive that the equity and spirit of a law may upon better grounds extend to things in the same kinde and of the same nature , from one spirituall thing to another , from idolatry to wil-worship or heresie , then from civill things to religious , which differ tot● genere . but setting aside m. s. concession , is there not all the equity and reason in the world from those commands forementioned ( though granting according to the letter of those lawes no man should be put to death for any thing lesse then that kind of idolatry with apostasie , worshipping false gods ) that those who worship the true god by graven images by making likenesses of him , and that corrupt the doctrine of faith and religion , should also by the magistrates bee punished as well by suppressing their conventicles , putting them out of places of power , &c. though not so much as the others . or is there any equity and proportion in this , that god should command punishing with death ( the highest kinde the magistrate can inflict ) for idolatrie in worshipping strange gods , and should forbid any punishment or restraint at all of idolatry , and corruption of his worship in the next degree to that ? according to degrees of faults to have degrees of punishments is of the light of nature and right reason ; but to have a higher degree of an offence to bee punished with death , and all others not to bee punished at all , is against the light of nature and all reason : le ts but look into the scriptures for the violation of other commands of god , as in the , and th . commandements : and wee shall finde that where the higher degrees and violations had greater punishments , the others went not scorfree . for example , when adultery was punished with death , fornication was punished with fifty shekels of silver , and wit●● paying of money according to the dowry of virgins , exod. . . . compared with deut. . . , . so , when stealing of men was death , stealing of oxen and sheep was restoring five and foure-fold , exod. . . exod. . . seventhly , there is a great agreement between the false prophets under the old testament , and the false teachers under the new , between idolatry under the old testament , and heresies now ( many heresies being grosse idolatries ) as is evident by many scriptures of the new testament , which lively parallels and resembles these to each other , so that it cannot bee upon any good ground conceived that the first sort should bee punished with death , and the latter not punished at all ; but i referre the fuller clearing of this to the . thesis , where upon occasion of opening that . of deutero●omi● i shall speak more . . thesis . besides the full concurrent testimony and judgement of the most learned protestant divines , calvin , philip melancton , beza , peter martyr , zanchius , bullinger , musculus , chemnitius , gerardus , bucanus , bilson , cartwright , professores leydenses , voetius , triglandus , that the care of religion and gods worship belongs to the magistrate , that god hath given him a power and authority objective and externall in ecclesiasticall causes to look to religion as to civil justice , so as he is bound to see the true religion and service of god set up and maintained in his dominions , being therupon generally by all divines cal'd custos & curator utriusque tabulae . god himself in the scriptures showes at much , annexing the care of religion and keeping the law , the first table as well as the second to the magistrate , deut. . , . god there appoints that the king over his people when he comes to the throne of his kingdome , should have a copie of the law written out of that which was before , the priests the levites to be alwayes with him . now the law there spoken of is meant the whole law of god , the first table as well as the second , that which concerned god as well as man , because it was a copie of that originall which was kept in the tabernacle for the priests and levites , whose office was principally about matters of the first table ; and then the end expressed in the . verse , that the king might learne to feare the lord his god , to keep all the words of this law , showes as much that by the name of the law must be understood the whole systeme of the divine law , so that by this place of scripture 't is evident that not only the second table of the morall law that contains justice and righteousnesse is committed to the magistrate , but the first also concerning the worship of god is given to his custody . and as t is understood of the whole law , so the custody of the law of god is not here a custodia legum personalis & privata , meant only of a personall private keeping , as the pleaders for toleration evade , saying , that the king in his person as well as others was to keep the law , but also and cheifly of a * custodia officialis & publica quod rex curare debeat ut lex domini pure doceatur , ut cultus instituatur , a publike keeping out of office , it being the kings office to care that the law of god should be purely taught , and his worship set up ; and that it must be so understood , consider these following reasons . first , this king , verse . was to be one from among themselves , a brother , not a stranger , who was to know the law of god , and to keep it personally as well before he was a king , as after , the law of god being committed to private persons equally as to kings for their particular personall observation , and therefore sure in this solemne injunction there 's something new and more required of kings then was of them before , or is of persons meerly private . * secondly , this was not done till just hee was placed in the throne , so saith the text , verse . the law was committed to the king as a king at his coronation , which showes it had not reference to the kings private conversation as a meer man , but to his princely function as a magistrate , which stood in commanding others , not in guiding himselfe . for no man is a king in respect of himselfe , but in ruling his subjects . so * augustin saith of kings , as a man hee serveth god one way , as a king another way ; as a man by faithfull living , as a king in setting forth lawes to command that which is good , and remove the contrary . so that kings as kings serve god in doing that for his service which none but kings can doe . this is also proved from kings . . compared with chron. . . where to king jehoash in his solemne inauguration as soon as the crown is put upon him , the book of the testimony was given him from the high priest , that hee might know the care and publick custody of the law was committed to him in his being made a king ; and in that the command of god with the practise accordingly , together with putting the crown on the head was to give the law in the kings hand , it showes it was to command it to others , and make others keep it . and that this was the meaning of it in jehoash , and so in other princes , it may further appeare in that the people at that time being much corrupted in religion , and jehoaida the high priest desiring much their reformation , and the restauration of religion , as a meanes to effect it made a covenant between the lord and the people : and as the medium and meanes that that people should bee the lords people , hee brings in the king between them that hee should interpose with his authority to make them the lords people , verse . and iehoiada made a covenant between the lord and the king , and the people , that they should bee the lords people , * that hee should set up and maintain the true worship of god , and bee for god to bring in the people . thirdly , the ends expressed in deut. . of the kings prolonging his dayes in his kingdome , hee and his children in the midst of israel , of his not turning aside from the commandement to the right or to the left , of his learning to fear the lord god , and keeping all the words of the law , show , 't is understood of a publike officiall keeping the law ; for the kings of israel and judah could not prolong their dayes in their kingdomes , nor their children enjoy good dayes after them if they suffered idolatry , apostasie , &c. in their land , though themselves practised it not , as may bee seen in solomon , and the stories of the kings of israel and judah , neither could they keep all the commands of god , there being many commands given to the iewish magistrates ( as is confessed , but pleaded to bee iudiciall and peculiar to them ) to see their people serve god only , and to punish idolaters and false prophets . fourthly , the practise of the good kings among the iewes not only keeping the law themselves , but causing others also , as josiah , hezekiah , asae , &c. and that from this text , and such like , showes it was meant of a publick keeping the law ; the diligent execution of their office serves for an evident exposition what god required at their hands . and as i have proved that of deut. . speaks of a keeping the law ex officio as a publick custos , so for the taking of another evasion brought by mr. goodwin in his hagiomastix , page . i desire the reader to observe that god having given power and authority to the magistrate to see the first table kept , the duties commanded to bee performed by all under his jurisdiction , and to bee guarded against all disobedience and contempt from men , it must bee understood in the use of such meanes and wayes god hath allowed the magistrate as distinct from private persons or ministers , viz. such as are proper to him , and which god hath given him by virtue of his place to use . now those meanes qua magistrate are in the exercise of his coercive power by lawes and edicts , and by the use of the temporall sword given him of god to restrain and hinder such evills , and to promote and further such good . * so melancton when as the magistrate is the keeper of the lawes hee himselfe obeys them , and compells others to obey them , and defends strongly their authority : therefore he is armed of god with the sword . the minister hee restraines and punishes only with the word of god , with preaching and excommunication without bodily force . but the magistrate being armed with the sword , punishes those who are con●umaicous with punishments of the body . a triglandus showes how ministers , fathers of families , magistrates and all people are commanded to keep the law , and are keepers of the law , and then layes down the difference between all these in keeping the law. the minister hee teaches whole assemblies the true rule of holinesse , admonishes , and exhorts al to subject to the command of christ , and by the power of the keyes casts out from the communion of the faithfull impenitent and refractorie persons . the father of a family teaches in his family the exercise of true piety , goes before them in example , and by his authority restrains his that they shall not turne out of the good way . now he who is magistrate , doth not teach but as a beleever out of the law of love as other beleevers doe , and as a father of a family his owne household : but as a magistrate with his coercive power he commands and forces all within his territories that they shall not outwardly offend against the true religion and worship of god. * and so all our divines who have written of the differences between civill and ecclesiasticall power , as 〈◊〉 , z●●chiu● , amesi●● , apollo●●● , 〈◊〉 , do show the lawfulnesse of the magistrates using outward force by p●nall lawes and bodily punishments towards those persons and things whereof god hath given them power . i will quote one passage out of amesi●● . between the magistrates and the ministers of the church , there is this difference . t is the duty of magistrates by civil means , and coercive power to procure the common good as well spirituall as bodily of all those committed to their jurisdiction , . tim. . . but of ministere by ecclesiasticall means to procure the spirituall good of those committed to them . * and another out of bilson , ministers may teach but not command , perswasion is their part , compulsion is the princes . by all which it appeares the magistrate having power in matters of religion , as the scriptures quoted , with that received maxime magistratus est custos utriusque tabulae prove , the exercising of it by coercive means is no unrighteous way , but most sutable to the nature of that ordinance of magistracie appointed by god to be the keeper of the first table quoad externam disciplinam , the due consideration whereof fully answers hagiomastixs rich sence of the magistrates being custos utriusque tabulae , laid down by him , page , . and showes both his senses to be but meere evasions . the fourth commandement contains the summe of all religion and the publike worship of god ; the commandement is synechdochicall as the others are , containing more things then are experssed in words : in this commandement not only the time to be allowed for publike worship , but what ever belongs to this worship are breifely comprehended under the sanctification of the sabbath . 't is commanded that the church setting aside all other businesses of this life should meet to worship god to hear his word , pray , &c. for as these things cannot be done without time , so not without place , ministers , &c. therefore in this synecdoche are contained the commands of the publike ecclesiasticall meetings to worship god , of places chosen fit for meeting , of the ministers and their office . in a word , this command of the sanctification of the sabbath contains all those things which belong to the worship of god , and are judged to be necessary . zanchi● upon the fourth commandement , page . showes this at large . chemnitius also in his common places de lege dei on the forth commandement , with rivetus in his explication of the decalogue , page . are of the same minde that the worship of god is required under keeping the sabbath day holy , the publick worship , and the private serving in reference to the publike being there commanded . and 't is the observation of zanchie on the fourth commandement , page . that there is in the manner of delivering the fourth commandement , and the other three before it , a three-fold difference . . all the other are plainly negative , thou shalt not , but this of the sabbath is expressely affirmative and negative too . . in the others he sets not his owne example , but in this he does . . in them he speaks simply , thou shalt not , but here not contended with a simple commanding , hee adds a word remember , by all which god would reach that 't is much in his heart that this commandement should be kept and that 't is a command of great moment . now this morall commandement containing the summe of religion and gods publike worship , is given in the first place to the father of the family , directed immediatly to him , thou and thy sonne and thy daughter , &c. therefore given to the governours of the familie , that they should see it be observed of their whole family , god having so expressed it as zanchius * speaks to decla●e he would have governours of the family to be the authors and leaders to the whole family to bring them to the publike assemblies to sanctifie the sabbath . now this pronowne thou being a synecdoche comprehending more then is expressed by name , viz as all governours of families , masters , &c. besides naturall fathers , so magistrates the fathers and governours of their people , ( as many learned divines upon the place expound it ) teaches us that this command comprehending the summe of all religion and publike worship , is given to the magistrates in the first place for their subjects , and by this command we are instructed not only what lies upon the master of the family , but what is the magistrates duty in religion , viz. that he should doe the will of god himselfe , and care that it be done also of others , and see gods sabbaths be sanctified . so that here we have in this fourth command the duty of magistrates in religion , and how that the care of gods publike worship and religion is committed to them , that they should look to it . * zanchie upon this fourth command speaks much how under the father by a synecdoche is meant also the magistrate , and that here the holy ghost teaches what the office of a magistrate is in matters of religion , how that he is to command his subjects to the outward worship , and to use his endeavour that his subjects may come to the publike assemblies , and together with others sanctifie the sabbath . * chemnitius upon the same command writes thus , 't is manifest , in this commandement 't is required of parents , masters of families , and magistrates , not only that themselves sanctifie the sabbath , but that it is their place and duty that they care it be sanctified of others , and prohibite and punish its prophanation . and god doth shew that the magistrates ought to care , that strangers inhabiting within their gates should conform to the true religion , lest otherwise scandals should arise . and that by [ thou ] the magistrate is understood , and so by this command , the care of the publike worship and sabbath to see it sanctified , is given to the magistrate , is further proved from those words , nor the stranger that is within thy gates . by gates , in that place , are understood not only a particular family or city , but the whole country of any people , as gen. . v. . he shall possesse the gates of his enemies , and gen. . . deut. . . so learned rivet upon the . commandement , by strangers within thy gates are meant , first strangers who commonly inhabited and lived in the common wealth of israel , secondly strangers who came from other countries for a time , not to remain , but either to see the country , or to traffick , &c. both which are to keep the sabbath , the latter sort so far , as not to violate it with any externall servile work , as is evident by nehem. . v. , , . now the meaning of gates & strangers fully sheweth the magistrate is meant in the command ; for many strangers in the first sense dwelt in houses of their own , & in the d sense the father of a family had nothing to do out of his house , or with travellers & merchants who were of no family , but the restraining of them belonged properly to the magistrate . upon which interpretation * rivet and zanchius do shew how 't is the part of a magistrate to provide that strangers may not give scandals in a common-wealth , but that at least they be made to keep outward discipline with others . the strangers among the jews were compelled not only to stand to their political laws , but to some of the outward precepts of religion , and that partly lest the good manners of the jewes should be corrupted and disturbed with the gentiles evil manners , and that the strangers among them might be in some sort instructed in the knowledge of the divine law . and whosoever would be fully satisfied in this point that the publike exercise of piety and religion is commanded in the fourth commandement , and that this commandement belongs and is given to the magistrates , not only as particular persons , but as they are magistrates , so that 't is their part to care by their authority that the sabbath be sanctified , that is , that religion bee preserved , and the exercises of piety take place in their countries and territories ; and further know what the office of a magistrate is in matters of religion both in respect of persons and things , and that in the severall particulars , let him read learned zanchius on the fourth commandement , particularly in these pages , . , . and especia●ly , , &c. the fifth common place de offici● principum in religione , of the office of princes in religion . and therefore seeing magistrates have the care of religion and gods worship committed to them , being by god appointed to be keepers of the first table as well as the second , among other particulars laid down in the word , and branched out by divines , wherein the magistrates power in matters of religion stands , this must needs be one , a power of suppressing false religions and heresies , and punishing those who by all wayes and meanes go about to destroy the true . if the magistrate be custos prim● tabula , he is also vindex primae tabulae . if the magistrate have a power of commanding the true , and using co●rcive meanes to bring his people to it , then sure he hath of hindring the false , as he that by law hath the power of keeping the peace , hath a power also of suppressing tumults , riots , r●u●s , and the reason is manifest , because the one cannot be kept without the other : the physitian who hath a power given him over bodies for their health , hath a power over sicknesses , corrupt meats , poyson , and all that would destroy the health and life . he who hath the power of keeping a garden and the precious flowers and fruits in it , hath a power of plucking up weeds , taking mouls , snails and such like that would spoile all . he who may justly command , may justly punish ; and he that may lawfully punish , may certainly command . all learning will tell us that contraries be consequent to contraries . if magistrates may lawfully command and establish that which is good , then they may forbid and abolish the contrary evill , of which see more in bilsons difference between christian subjection and unchristian rebellion , part . . p. , . and therefore we see josiah and other princes who established the true religion , & by their kingly authority caused the people to stand to it , removed and punished also all persons and wayes contrary thereunto : hence i conceive t is , that maxime is generally received among divines , magistratus est custos ac vindex utriusque tabulae , the magistrate is the revenger of both tables as well as the keeper . . thesis . magistrates ▪ qua magistrates , by vertue of their office , as magistrates simply , every of them , though turks , heathen and wicked , as well as christian and orthodox , have an authority , right , power from god jure divino in matters of religion to command for god , and his honor , and to forbid and suppresse the contrary . the magistrate in generall being by his proper place the minister of god , rom. . gods vicegerent governing men in the roome of god , even so far as his power and jurisdiction extends , is bound to care in matters of religion . as now parents qua parents have by the morall law of god a power and a duty lying upon them to command their children to good , and to forbid evill , and have a rod given into their hands to those ends , although being heathens or wicked , for the present they know not , or will not exercise it in teaching and bringing them up in the christian religion and fear of god : so is with magistrates , the authority and right every of them hath by being a magistrate , who by his place is for the punishment of evill doers and the praise of them that doe well , however to the due and right exercise of this , a good will and true knowledge out of the word of god may be required . * zanehius in his m●scellaniet de magistratu . . and de ecclesi● militantis gubernatione , cap. . pag. , . showes that every magistrate as well ; wicked as godly , not christian as christian , hath this power and so doth spalatensis in his sixth book , fifth chapter de republica ecclesiastica , but for the better understanding of it i shall lay downe this twofold distinction . first , that heathen princes so farre as the light of nature teaches them and right reason , are to make lawes in matters of religion and whereas the * light of nature leads on straight to the knowledge of one god and supreme deity , and dictates this god to be just , holy , good , perfect , &c. and to bee worshipped with reverence , they should command so farre , remove idolatry , the worship of birds , four-footed beasts , and creeping things , promote the worship of the true god , punish blasphemies and wicked opinions contrary to the nature of god , and that out of their proper office of being princes , as the immediate ministers and vicegerents of god on earth : hence we read in many writers , as * plutarch , aristotle , plato and others , that heathen princes have made lawes for god and his worship , and have punished atheists , epicures blasphemers , and sacrilegious persons ; and as any of them have come to more knowledge of god and religion by any extraordinary work of gods providence , or by living among them of the true religion as the jews before christs time , and christians since , though not fully converted , yet still according to their knowledge and means , they were bound , and many of them have gone on in promoting the true religion , and forbidding the contrary , as the king of niniveh , darius , nebuchadonezor , and aurelianus at the request of the church punishing paulus samosetenus the heretick . but now if beside the light of nature and dictamen of naturall reason , princes have the light of faith , the knowledge of christ and the scriptures , of heathens come to be christians , or being borne in christian common-wealths , have from their child hood beene brought up in the faith of christ , then also out of their kingly office they should throw downe all things contrary to faith and the true worship of christ , and positively by outward acts promote and command the outward worship of god , have a care of the ecclesiasticall discipline , and of all the parts of religion that they may be preserved : of which the reader may be further satisfied in the writings of that learned man * marcus antonius de dominis archbish . of spalato . secondly , though the care of religion belongs to al princes , yet in a speciall manner upon speciall obligations the christian ●aith belongs to christian magistrates and princes , whom god hath given to be nursing fathers and nursing mothers : these have not only a remote power , but the next power which they may bring into act by reason of the knowledge of christ , and many helps ; and this many reformed divines affert of the christian magistrate in the handling of this question of the magistrates power , as zanchius and others . but if the magistrate be also christian , we doe beleeve it specially belongs to him to take a peculiar care of the christian religion . and i have set downe this thesis thus distinctl● by it selfe , because divers of the patrons of toler●tion , especially cretensis in his m. s. pag. , . and in his hagiom●stix . , . . doe on purpose snarle and make intricate the question about the magistrates power in matters of religion , trouble the waters , by falling upon that phrase often expressed by divines in this controversie the christian magistrate , which how t is to be taken i have showed , and should have here more fully opened it , and taken off some cavils i foresee likely to be made against it , but that i have spoken of it in the prolegomen● , and intend in the second or third part of toleration to treat more fully of it . . thesis . besides all the proofes in the old testament of magistrates power de facto in matters of religion , with commands given to them to look to see the true religion settled in their countries ( which i have given in former theses ) there are many expresse commands given by god to the magistrates to punish persons in their territories for matters against the first table viz. idolaters , blasphemers , false prophets , seducers , witches and wizards , prophaners of the sabbath , as in exodus . verse . he that sacrificeth unto any god save unto the lord only , he shall be utterly destroyed . deut. . verse , , , if there arise among you a prophet , or a dreamer of dreams , saying , let us go after other gods , which thou hast not known , and let us serve them : thou shalt not harken unto the words of that prophet , &c. and that prophet , or that dreamer of dreams shall be put to death , because he hath spoken to turn you away from the lord your god , which brought you out of the land of egypt , and redeemed you out of the house of bondage , to thrust thee out of the way which the lord thy god commanded thee to walk in : so shalt thou put away the evill from the midst of thee . deut. . , , , . if there be found among you within any of thy gates which the lord thy god giveth thee , man or woman that hath wrought wickednesse in the sight of the lord thy god , in transgressing , his covenant , and hath gone and served other gods and worshipped them , either the sun or moon , or any of the host of heaven , which i have not commanded ; and it be told thee and thou hast beard of it , and inquired diligently , and behold it be true , and the thing certaine that such abomination is wrought in israel : then shalt thou bring forth that man or that moman ( which have committed that wicked thing ) unto the gates , even that man or that woman and shalt stone them with stones untill they die . verse , . and the man that will doe presumptuously , and will not hearken unto the priest ( that standeth to minister there before the lord thy god ) or unto the judge , even that man shall die , and thou shalt put away evill from israel . and all the people shall heare and feare , and doe no more presumptuously . levit. . . and he that blasphemeth the name of the lord , he shall surely he put to death , and all the congregation shall certainly stone him : as well the stranger , as he that is borne in the land , when he blasphemeth the name of the lord , shall be put to death . verse . and moses spake to the children of israel , that they should bring forth him that had cursed out of the camp , and stone him with stones : and the children of israel did as the lord commanded moses . levit. . , , . and the lord spake unto moses saying , againe thou shalt say to the children of israel , whosoever he be of the children of israel , or of the strangers that sojourne in israel that giveth any of his seed to molech , he shall surely be put to death . exod. . . levit. . . thou shalt not suffer a witch to live . a man also or woman that hath a familiar spirit , or that is a wizard , shall surely be put to death ; they shall stone them with stones : their bloud shall be upon them . yee shall keep the sabbath therefore , for it is holy unto you : every one that defileth it , shall surely be put to death : for whosoever doth any work therein , that saule shall he cut off from among his people . deut. . . . but the prophet which shall presume to speak ● word in my name , which i have not commanded him to speak , or that shall speak in the name of other gods , even that prophet shall die . when a prophet speaketh in the name of the lord , if the thing follow not , nor come to passe , that is the thing which the lord hath not spoken , but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously : thou shalt not be afraid of him , that is , afraid to put him to death , either for his threatning words , or for his signes , or for his showes of holinesse , or because he hath the name of a prophet of the lord , and speaks in the name of the lord , or is indeed a prophet , as that old prophet was kings . , , , , . ainsw . upon this place , saith , the hebrewes , explain it , saying whosoever withdraweth himselfe from killing a false prophet , because of his dignity , for that he walketh in the ways of prophecy , behold he transgresseth against this prohibition , thou shalt not be afraid of him . and so he that with draweth himself from teaching concerning him what he is guilty of ; or that dreadeth and feareth for his words , &c. now in all these commands , as their subject matter consists of things forbidden in the ten commandements , as blasphemie , apostasie , witchcraft , prophanation of the sabbath , &c. so that the commands for punishing such ( for the substance of them ) are moral too of common reason and equity given to all nations , and for all ages , as to the jewes and their times , i shall prove by these following reasons ; and for the most materiall things brought of old or of late by the grand patrons of toleration minus celsus senensis , acontius , bloudy tenet , m. s. hagiomastix to make void these places of scripture , ( as that these commands either are abrogated by christ , the things commanded in those lawes belonging to the jewes only , but not the gentiles nor christians , or if they be any way morall , yet they extend not to hereticks and false-teachers , but concern only apostates , blasphemers , such false prophets who endeavoured to perswade men to the worship of a false god ; and that by affirming that they spake by the inspiration of some deity ) to them also i shall returne asatisfying answer . for the first , let the reader lay together these particulars . . that t is evident some of these commands , as against offering their children to molech , as against dealing and contracting with a familiar spirit deserve punishing among christians and under the gospell now , as well as under the law , and if these , why not the other of blasphemy , idolatry , false-prophecie , & c ? these latter are of moral things as well as the other ; the first and these are delivered both by moses in the samebooks , time , propounded after the same tenor and way , upon the same grounds and reasons . no difference at all , unlesse that these latter concerning apostasie , idolatry , false prophecie , be more strictly commanded and further inlarged , which the reader by comparing the texts shall observe . but if it be said those commands against offering their seed to molech and of witches , are therefore punished by the magistrate , because they offend against lives and estates of mankind , in killing the children , in cattell being killed , and mens bodies being hurt by witches and wisards , which is not in the other of apostasie , blasphemy , &c. i reply , t is to be observed that in all those places where the commands are given by god to the magistrate about these , there 's not one jota or tittle expressed about offending against the second table in life or goods , but all the reason formally declared , is , because against god immediately , and the commands of the first table : for giving the seed to molech , levit. . . this is the reason alledged by god against it , thou shalt not let any of thy seed passe through the fire to molech , neither shalt thou prophane the name of thy god : i am the lord , levit. . . the reason given against it , is the defiling of gods sanctuary , and prophaning his holy name , both which spake in reference to the worship of god only and matters of religion , as ainsworth in his notes upon both these texts , fully and excellently shows , as also the late annotations of our english divines . it is further proved by those two texts jerem. . . jerem. . , . where god speaking against the jewes offering up their children to molech , layes open their sinnes in these expressions , which i commanded them not , neither came it into my heart , which i commanded not , nor spake it , neither came it into my minde , in which words god answers to what was in their hart , viz. that they did it as a worship to god , a thing commanded by him , and so out of conscience , but god tels them , and that in these reiterated expressions it was never commanded by him among all the duties of his worship he never spake a word of any such matter . and among all the places in moses books , prophets , the books of kings , chronicles , where 't is spoken of , we shall never find this condemned as murther , but still spoken against as idolatry , a corruption of gods worship , and so recorded among such transgressions : besides according to gods owne rule and way of acquitting some men of murther , by providing cities of refuge , deut. . in some cases for men that had slaine their brethren , upon that ground , because they hated them not in time past , twice expressed verse . . the givers of their children to molech will be found to be adjudged to death for their idolatry rather then the killing their children : for it cannot be supposed that the worshippers of molech hated their children in time past , or at present , and out of that hatred offered them up in sacrifice , but out of their blinde zeale and strong delusion , thinking therein they should doe a high and extraordinary service ; rabbi bechai saith , that the parents were perswaded that by this sacrifice the rest of their children should be delivered from death , and that they themselves should prosper for it all the dayes of their life . for ther 's no question but these idolaters loved their children and had affections to them as might be proved by severall reasons , among others by the great noise made by beating upon drums in the time of sacrificing to drowne the cries of the children , left their cries working on their fathers naturall affections should make the fathers spare them ; whereupon the place of sacrificing was called tophet of toph , which is a taber or drum. for the commands given to magistrates against witches , they are set down either without any reasons at all of them , or else in those places where any reasons are assigned they relate wholly to god as a breach of the first table , nothing at all as to men , as these scriptures show , levit. . , . , . deut. . , , , . and our english divines in their late annotations upon exod. . ● . write thus , witchcraft in forbidden , and that upon paine of death . some have thought witches should not die unlesse they had taken away the life of mankind ; but they are mistaken , ( the proof of which the reader may finde set downe there ) but why then must the witch be put to death ? answer , because of the league and confederacie with the devill , which is high treason against god , because he is gods chiefest enemie , and therefore though no 〈◊〉 ensue this contract at all , the witch deserver present and certaine death for the contract it selfe . secondly , these commands to the magistrate concerning idolaters , blasphemers , &c. were not for the punishing of israelites , the jewish people only , but of all strangers in their land , both of proselytes that dwelt among them , and of others that only travelled thorough , or were there a while upon trading or such like occasions , as these scriptures show levit. . verse . whosoever he be of the children of israel , or of the stranger that sojourne in israel , that giveth any of his seed to molech , he shall surely be put to death , levit. . verse . hee that blasphemeth the name of the lord shall surely be put to death , as well the stranger , as he that is borne in the land. upon which places of scripture and others , as the fourth commandement , &c. besides many reasons that might be given why stranger is to be taken in the largest sense , even for al strangers coming among them though not pro●elytes , it is the judgement of many learned men as rabbins who were best skilled in the customes of the jewes , maimonides with others , as moderne write●s zanchius , rivetus , our english divines in their late annotations on levit , . verse . and above all master selden in that learned book de jure naturali & gentium lib. . cap. . clearly showes , 't is understood of all gentiles coming among them by accident , as those workmen of other countries , tyrians , phaenitians , &c. sent by kings to king solomon for the building of the temple , or those who passed from place to place for traffique sake , or any who passed through the countrey . master * selden in that book of his also showes , that when the israelites were sui juris in their owne countrey , had power over the nations , and were in a flourishing estate under david , solomon and other such kings , they denied all dwelling and habitation to the idolatrous heathen , or so much as to lodge them by way of travellers or guests , till they had given their names to the seven precepts juris noachidarum seu naturalis ( as they are called ) among which idolatry and blasphemy de cultu extraneo , de maledictione nominis sanctissimi seu numinis , were the first . nay further he proveth that every gentile which had not received those seven precepts was to be punished with death if he stayed in the jewes territories , and particularly in divers places of that book showes that idolatry and blasphemy were punished by death upon all that lived in the iewish common-wealth , though they were not proselyti justiciae ; and on those words levit . and he that blasphemeth the name of the lord , he shall surely be put to death , writes thus , id est sive fuerit proselytus sen peregrinus , sive indigena aut civis , ex eo quod blasphemaverit nomen domini morte plectendus est , yea * he saith that the gentiles or proselytes domicilii , were punished more severely then the iewes in this case of blasphemy , not only for blaspheming the proper name of god , but the cognomen . all which showes clearly these punishments were not inflicted upon the iewes qua iewes , and qua a typicall people in a typicall land , &c. but upon them as the nature of such crimes calling for such punishments , and that 't is the magistrates duty to restraine in iews or gentiles in all under their jurisdiction , idolatry , blasphemie , &c. thirdly , the reasons and grounds of these lawes and commands with the use and end of them upon which they are inforced , are of common reason and equity that concern us under the new testament as well as the iewes . i doe not finde one ceremoniall or properly iudiciall reason given of any one , but all of them are laid downe either absolutely and simply without any reasons at all , or else upon such reasons as are morall and perpetuall ; and i judge that in all commands which are not typicall and ceremoniall , and so some other thing apppointed to come in upon the abolishment to make good their perpetuall end and use assigned , that rule of divines holds universally true , ratio immutabilis facit praeceptum immutabile , which by the way may serve to answer the evasions of minus gelsus senensis , and of hagiomastix bringing instances in circumcision and such like , which the scriptures declare expressely to be abolished , having substituted baptisme and other ordinances in their roome , but have not said one word in the like kind of the commands in question ; besides that christ the substance of those shadows is come , and so they are of no further use at all . and indeed acontius though a great libertine doth confesse that law in the th of deuterenomy of the stoning of the false prophet and seducer is not confined only to the time before christ having no place at all under the gospel , and to the ground and conjecture ( as acontius calls it ) of that opinion , he saith that the reason set downe in the same is against it , viz. all israel shall beare and feare , and shall do no more any such wickednesse as this is among you , * which reason certainly abides alwayes , so that although this law had exspired , yet notwithstanding by vertue of it the magistrate hath a right and power of making another like it , as he hath of making lawes against murtherers , adulterers and other flagitious persons . fourthly , before these lawes in deut. . and deut , . for punishing idolaters were given by moses , yea before moses time , or any common-wealth among the iewes was erected , in other countries remote from the land of canaan , idolatry in worshipping creatures deserved punishing by the magistrate as i have showed already fully in page , . of this book ; yea the particular kind of idolatry instanced in deut. . . of worshipping the sunne , or moone , which among the israelites was to be punished by death , if it had been found in job in the land of vz he had beene worthy of punishment from the iudges for it job . , . . and other princes not iewes , as artaxerxes , nebuchadonezar , &c. made lawes and edicts for punishing those that blasphemed the god of heaven , and transgressed his lawes as the scriptures testifie . now the lawes properly judiciall that were the iewes civill lawes simply belonging to them as such a people in such a countrey , were in use only among themselves , and not practised by other nations and countries ; but such lawes and customes used among them that were observed universally among all nations , or by divers nations ( though not of all ) strictly speaking were not iudiciall lawes , but the lawes of nature and nations though according to the discipline of the iewes , that is , what was received in the church and common-wealth of the iewes , and accordingly accounted by them as the law of the world of all men and ages , or the law of many nations common to them with those nations , of all which the reader may be further satisfied in that learned peece of mr. selden's , de jure naturali , & gentium juxta disciplinam ebraeorum ; and particularly in the preface of that book , ( where he sheweth the reason of that title , and gives the summe of his work and undertaking ) and in his first book . and among the iawes of naturall right , as distinguished from the civil lawes of the jews , or simply israeliticall , those commands of punishing for strange worship , and blasphemie , are reckoned by the jewes themselves , as the reader may find in the * first book de jure naturali & gentium , cap. . book , cap. . . book , cap. . fifthly , the spirit of god under the new testament , hebr. . , . speaking according to the common equity and justice of the matter , and not according to a politicall law peculiar to one nation , saith of the despisers of moses law that died without mercy under two or three witnesses , that they were worthy of it ; as appears by the comparative , of how much sorer punishment suppose ye , shall he be thought warthy ? every comparative implying a positive : the sorer punishment that he is worthy of , who hath trodden under foot the son of god , supposes the other worthy of the sore punishment inflicted upon them by moses law for despising it . now by moses law in this place , the breach whereof deserved capitall punishment , must needs be meant sins against the first table rather then against the second ; and that because the scope of the apostle is to warne the hebrews against apostasie and falling off from the christian religion , for which end he brings these words among others ; and therefore would speak ad idem . beza upon 〈◊〉 place , saith , that the apostle speaks not of the transgression of any one command , but of the apostasie and totall defection from the true religion , of which moses in deut. . . had spoken . so calvin upon this text . the law under moses did not punish with death all sins or transgressions committed , but apostasie . the apostle had an eye to that of deut. . . of stoning him that served strange gods . and pareus upon heb. . , . shewes , that temporall death from the magistrate , ( for of that he speaks , not of gods judgements ) was justly inflicted by moses law upon capitall transgressions , as blasphemie , apostasie ; and therupon infers from the lesse , that much greater punishment must abide apostates who despise the gospel . infert à minori , tanto gravius supplicium manere defectores illos . si legis contemptoribus supplicium mortis , quo nihil est in hoc mundo acerhius , justè irrogabitur , utique supplicium quovis morte atrocius apostatae evangelii contemptores incurrent ? and heb. . in those words for if the word spoken by angels was firm , and every transgression and disobedience received a just recompence of reward the apostle shews that the law of moses given by angels , gal. . . act. . . had the breach and transgression of it justly punished mediately by the * magistrates , to whom the execution of the laws was cōmitted by god , which just punishment is there cheifly understood of transgressions against the first table . sixthly , granting that . of deut. with the other texts of scripture named , to be judiciall politicall lawes of the jews , yet they may binde the christian magistrate under the gospel . indeed the ceremoniall law being given for certain uses , and for a certain time , till the comming of christ , upon the arising of this sun , all these shadowes vanished away , as being but of one time . but now the judicial lawes , however delivered to one nation , yet were not of one time , never tied to one time only : so that had the commonwealth of the jewes continued untill this day , excepting a few things belonging to the vindication of the ceremonies ( which would have ceased with the ceremonies ) they would have used their political lawes still , in regard the gospel neither changed nor took away any of them , as beza observes in his tractate de haereticis à magistratu puniendis , p. . and for the better understanding and proving that the judicial lawes under the old testament are still in force , i shall lay down two or three distinctions . . the judicial law may be considered , so far as concerns the distinction of the iewes from the gentiles , and the typical signification of the kingdome of christ ; or only so much as belongs to the forme of civil government . now the judicial law , according to the first acception , is absolutely and simply abrogated ; but , secundum quid , in part and some kinde only , in the latter : that is , whatever was in the judicial law of particular proper right peculiarly concerning the jewes , as of inheritances not to be transferred from one tribe to another ; of the tribe of levi having no inheritance among the other tribes , numb . . , . of the emancipation of an hebrew servant or handmaid in the seventh yeer ; a mans marrying his brothers wife , and raising up seed to his brother ; the forgiving of debts at the jubile ; marrying with one of the same tribe , with other such like , all of this kind is ceased : but what was of common right , common to other nations with them , according to the common law of nature ; of which sort are lawes concerning the punishment of moral transgressions , and other such ; that all remains , and is in force . of which distinction the reader may find more in piscator's appendix to his observations upon the , , , chap. of exodus ; * bullinger ; and in altingius his common places , par . . loc . . de lege dei , p. . lex judicialis simpliciter abrogata est quoad distinctionem judaeorum à gentibus , & typicam regni christi significationem ; secundum quid verò , quantum attinet formae gubernationis civilis . nam quod juris in ea fuit particularis , judaeos peculiariter concernans , qualis fuit lex de officio levitarum , item alia de haereditatibus de tribu in tribum non transferendis , id omne cessavit . quod autem juris suit communis , secundum legem naturae omnibus communem sancitum , cujusmodi sunt leges de paenis scelerum , aliaeque id totum manet . . the iudicial lawes may be considered according to their substance and equity , or according to many accessories , circumstances , forms , & manner of them . now though the magistrate under the gospel is not bound unto these lawes simply , that is , to every circumstance and particular of them for form , manner , time and place ; as for example , not to the same kinds and formality of punishments set down in those lawes ; for those forms are accessions of the law ; and therfore out of the nature of persons , times , places , and constitution of common-wealths , mutable : yet he is bound to the substance & equity of them , so as not to derogate from the right of those lawes . of this distinction the reader may find much said by cartwright , in his . reply to dr. whitgift , p. , . beza de haereticis â magistratu puniendis , p. , . tremellius and junius , in their preface before the five books of moses . thirdly , these lawes may be lookt upon as containing doctrine from god of punishment , i. e. that those who seduce , blaspheme god , &c. be restrained , yea and by death in severall cases , or else as in their latter according to the great rigor and severity expressed in them , as in deut. . &c. by smiting the inhabitants of the city with the sword , destroying it utterly and all that is therein , and the cattle thereof with the edge of the sword , and by gathering all the spoyle of it into the midst of the street thereof , and burning with fire the city , and all the spoyle of it every whit ; in not sparing them though they should have truly repented , in enjoyning the sonne , the wife of a mans bosome , to bring forth the father , husband , and to stone them with stones . now though to the degrees and measures of punishment , the severity and utmost rigor the magistrate is not now tied , yet to the thing in cases of idolatry , seduction , false prophesying , speaking lies in the name of the lord he is bound , and in some cases of grosse and high idolatry and blasphemy committed presumptuously , to inflict capitall punishment : of this distinction also let the reader consult these * authors . and of this question that the iudiciall lawes of moses in the sense now given , doe yet last and are in force , besides the resolution of many great divines in the case , beza , calvin , cartwright , tremellius and junius , bullinger , zinchius , peter martyr , henricus altingius , and more especially * piscator , who by eight arguments proves the question in controversie , besides answering two and twenty arguments brought against it ; i shall desire the reader to observe these few reasons . . the iudiciall law differs from the decalogue , the law of the ten commandements , in this , that whereas the * decalogue comprehends in a few words all righteousnesse and equity , in all kind of duties to god and man , the iudiciall explains only that part of righteousnesse and equity which stands in those things of which judgements are appointed ; and therefore seeing the judicialls prescribe the equity of judgements which is a part of the decalogue we must be bound to that as we are to the rest of the decalogue , viz. so farre as they containe a generall equity though we are not tied to the formes of the mosaicall politie ; now christ saith , matth. . . he came not to destroy the law , but to fulfill it ; which words are comprehensive of the judiciall law as for the substance a part of the moral law , ( the iudicial being indeed an appendix and a more particular explication of that part of the morall law concerning matters of iustice and judgement ) and therefore must be understood by christ to be established . . though there be many pregnant proofs in the new testament for abolishing the ceremoniall law , yet we nowhere read in the new testament of making void the iudiciall law concerning the punishing of sinnes against the morall law , in the number of which are idolatry , heresie , blasphemy . now these * iudiciall lawes being the lawes of god and by his revealed will once settled , they must needs so farre forth remaine as they appeare not by his will to be repealed . they who hold the magistrate under the gospel is not bound to punish for such sinnes , must prove from the scripture those lawes of god revoked and cancel'd , which none of the patrons of toleration have ever yet done . . the substance and equity of the iudiciall law remains in that christ and his apostles make use of , transfer and prove by some iudicial laws divers things under the new testament . christ makes use of a iudiciall law concerning punishment , matth. . , . an eye for an eye , and a tooth for a tooth , viz. that of poena talionis , exod. . . and frees it from the false glosse and interpretation of the pharisees , in which he teaches the iudiciall lawes of moses understood in their right sense are to be observed in the new testament : for if christ in that sermon , of which this is a part would teach the decalogue belonged to christians , by his vindicating it from the false interpretations of the scribes and pharisees ; then it followes hee meant to teach the iudiciall lawes of moses concerning the punishment of morall transgressions belonged to them also , because he vindicated also one of them , of which particular with the proof of the consequence the reader may finde more in piscators appendix to exodus . the apostle paul cor. . . tim. . . among other proofs brought by him from fimilitudes fetched from the common use of men , that the minister of the gospel ought to be maintained of the churches charge , whereas they might object those were but humane reasons , he alleadgeth as the eternall law of god one of the iudiciall lawes of moses , which was , that a man should not muzle the mouth of the oxe which treadeth out the corne : where 't is manifest he doubteth not to bind the conscience of the churches unto the equity of that law which was judiciall , likewise from the . verse , of those that minister about holy things , and wait at the altar , living of the things of the temple , and being partakers of the altar hee concludes that they which preach the gospell should live of it : now this maintainance of the priests albeit in the manner of provision it be held by many ceremoniall , yet as it was a reward of their service due by men ( as the punishments also if they failed in their duties ) was meerly judiciall . so the equity of that judiciall law , exod. . . * of the smiting of a theife in the night that he dye , ) is approved by christ , matth. . . so christ and paul both transferre that judiciall law of having two or three witnesses in judgement , deut. . verse . to bind christians in their ecclesiasticall censures and judgements , matthew . verse . cor. . verse . tim. . verse . by which instances and some other particulars that might bee given 't is evident that in those judicialls to all the circumstances whereof we are not bound , wee are notwithstanding bound to the equity , of which the reader may read more in cartwrights second reply to doctor whitgifts second answer , pag. , , . . that god appointed under the law , blasphemie , apostasie , idolatry , prophecying lies in thename of the lord to bee punished by the magistrate , proceeded from gods holinesse , justice , infinite hatred of such sinnes , and from their nature , being so contrary to his nature , so derogatory to his honour and glory , high treason against the supreme majesty , so destructive to the precious soules of men , so dangerous to common-wealths and kingdomes , as the scriptures in divers places where these lawes of punishing are set down , assignes these causes and reasons : now i would know of the patrons of toleration whether under the gospel these finnes of blasphemy , apostasie , &c. be not as much against gods holinesse , justice , glory , as pernicious and damnable as they were under the law ? yea and in some respects more , as being against the declarations of the sonne of god hebr. . , . and a treading under foot the sonne of god , and counting the bloud of the covenant an unboly thing , which being granted , punishment by the magistrate must needs continue . the rule of just and unjust in god and in his law is alwayes the same and immutable : it is as equally just to punish evill things as to forbid evill things , and therefore the right and law of punishments is also immutable : where and of what things the causes are perpetuall , there also the right is eternall and immutable , but the grounds and causes why such offences were punished , as gods justice , holinesse , glory , &c. are perpetuall and eternal : god is alwayes like to himselfe , the morall transgressions of men doe alike at all times displease him , no good reason can be given why the majesty of god should be of lesse account with us then heretofore among the iewes , and therefore by the like reason to be punished now as well as then : but the further proof of this the reader may finde in some learned divines , beza de haereticis à magistratu punie●●● . and in tremellius and juni●● preface before the books of moses . . the iudiciall law concerning the punishments of ●i●kednesse , for the substance , viz. that it should be punished remains under the gospel , because it comes within the nature of the morall law , and was prescribed to the iewes , not quae iewes or a people peculiarly taken into covenant , but qua men subject to the law of nature as other nations were : for the proof of which besides the judgement of divers learned divines , philip melancto● , peter martyr , zanchius , a●tingius , the reason of common right , from the proper peculiar right of the iewes is known and distinguished by these following particulars . . * if the same things have beene also found to be concluded , and by civill sanction established by other law-givers from the light of nature . . if found to make for the defence and preservation of the obedience of the decalogue . . if appear as usefull and necessary now for the glory of god , the salvation of mens soules , the peace & safety of the church and state as then . now all these do most clearly appear in punishments of sins immediately against god , as apostasie , idolatry , blasphemy , &c. for first , these commands are of the light of nature , tha● he who is in place and power should forbid and punish the speaking evill of god. this sentence ( as a melancton writes ) is preacht to all men , yea to all reasonable creatures , every one in his place ought to forbid and hinder the manifest reproaches and dishonours of god. and therefore magistrates ought to forbid and punish epicurean speeches , worships of idols , profession of wicked doctrines . many common-wealths among the heathens have made lawes against epicures and atheist● , who have openly held there was no god , or that there was no providence of god. b peter martyr in his common place● , that heathen princes used to care for religion , and have punished men even to death for the matters of religion . thus socrates was condemned at athens for no other cause but for teaching of new gods , i and for with drawing the youth from their old worship of the gods . c zanchius on the fourth commandement writes , that by the law of nature all princes among the heathen judged that the care of religion belonged to them . the athenians judged so , the romans also , and thereupon made lawes and punished for violation of religion . d beza gives three instances of punishments inflicted by heathen magistrates upon three cheif philosophers for matters of religion , socrates , theodorus , protagoras , the last of which was by the athenians banished out of their territories , and his books burnt for writing contemptuously of the gods in these words , de diis neque ut sint , neque ut non sint habeo dicere e musculus in his common places speaking of magistrates having the care of religion , saith , the wise men among the heathen acknowledged it , and that the truth of this opinion was so manifest as that it could not lie hid from the heathen , it was jus gentium , dictated by the light of nature , and therefore ought to be much more acknowledged and embraced by us , who in the knowledge of god go farre beyond , not only the gentiles , but the iewes . f master selden in divers places of that learned book de jure naturali & gentium proves that those commands de cultu extraneo and de maledictione nominis sanctissimi seu numinis , were jus naturalis , common to all men , were indeed the cheif and first heads of the law of nature , and that in those precepts , viz. for the negative part , all the gentiles who lived or but passed through the land of judea were punished by the magistrate for idolatry and blasphemy as well as the iewes , and that from lawes common to the iewes with the gentiles , though the kinds of the punishments , viz. this or that , as whether stoning , &c. were not of the same nature , but more proper to the iewes ; yea , he showes it was an opinion held by some learned men , that it was not lawfull for any gentile to speak evill of and blaspheme his god which hee worshipped as the god of his countrey ; and saith it was founded upon those words . levit. . . whosoever curseth his god shall heare his sinne , ( the blaspheming the name of the lord being spoken of after in the . verse , as if it were distinct from that in the . verse ) in which forme of speech divers learned men both rabbins , fathers and others would have forbidden to all the sonnes of men not only speaking evill evill of the most holy and only god , but also the speaking of those gods which they had chosen to themselves : so as none of the gentiles might blaspheme their false god , which yet they had not renounced , without the violation of that law , whosoever curseth his god shall beare his sinne . master burroughs in his irenicum , though he be for a toleration in a great measure , as in things controversall and doubtfull amongst godly and peaceable men , and that with a liberty of declaration of difference of judgement , and some different practise , page . yea brings such arguments for that toleration , that if they prove any thing , they prove a generall toleration , yet confesses page . of that book , t is the dictate of nature , that magistrates should have some power in matters of religion . the generality of all people have ever thought it equall . it hath ever been challenged of all nations and common-wealths . the heathens would never suffer their gods to be blasphemed , but punished such as were guilty thereof by the power of the magistrate . socrates was put to death for blaspheming their multiplicity of gods . and master burroughs in page . of the same book affirmes , that principle , that magistrates have nothing to doe with matters of religion is abhorring to nature . is it not an abhorring thing to any mans heart in the world , that men suffer that god to be blasphemed whom they honour ? and that nothing should be done for the restraining any , but to aske them why they doe so , and perswade them to doe otherwise ? there hath ever been as great a contestation amongst people about religion , as about any thing . exod. . , . pharaoh hade moses sacrifice in the land : but moses said it is not meete so to doe , for we shall sacrifice the abomination of the egyptians : lo , shall we sacrifice the abomination of the egyptians before their eyes , and will they not stone us ? though they had leave of the king , yet the people would not endure it . by which place of scripture 't is evident that the egyptians who were heathens , by the light of nature would not endure the dishonour of their gods to see those creatures they worshipped for e gods to be killed , as oxen and sheep the principall sacrifices of the hebrewes , but they would kill the israelites for so doing . and lastly , master prynne in that late book of his , the sword of christian magistrates supported , doth largely and excellently show that by the light of nature in all ages heathen magistrates have made lawes against , and punished such whom they esteemed atheists , hereticks , blasphemers of their gods , or oppugners of their established religion , and that with no lesse then capitall punishments , unto which book from page . to . i referre the reader , where he shall finde many examples of heathen kings and nations recited , and shall conclude this with that saying of seneca , de benefic . lib. . cap. . violatarum religionum aliubi atque aliubi diversa p●na est ; sed vbique aliqua ; as well as of homicide , paricide , poysoning secondly , the magistrates sword in matters of religion in punishing blasphemies , idolatries , heresies , hath been found by good experience in all ages to make greatly for the defence and preservation of the first table , to stirre men up to obedience and deterre them from the contempt and violation thereof , whereas on the contrary , for the want of this , all blasphemies , heresies and errors have abounded , of which i could give many instances , but shall referre them to the more proper place of handling , viz. to the reasons for magistrates punishing men for idolatries , blasphemies , heresies , schismes ; only for the present shall hint , that god himselfe saith twice , once in deut. . . the other deut. . . the magistrates punishing in such a case shall cause all the people to heare , feare , and to do no more presumptuously : the lord gives this blessing unto the punishment of such offendors , that others not only which see , but heare of them , have the bridle of feare put upon them whereby kept from the like . thirdly and lastly , this coercive power of the magistrate will be found every whit as usefull and necessary now for the glory of god , salvation of mens soules , peace of church and state as it was then , yea and in some respect● more necessary , there being in our dayes not only the same reasons and causes for that power of the magistrate , but others also : were there under the law many incorrigible presumptuous offendors against god and his worship , that could not be otherwise reclaimed , and are there not such now ? were there then many grosse ways of false worship and religion destroying foundations , broacht among the people ? were they then infectious drawing away and seducing many soules ? were they then provoking the wrath of god causing it to waxe hot against his people ? ought the glory and name of god to bee then dear to magistrates ? why , behold under the gospel there are as incorrigible desperate persons broaching all kind of damnable heresies , making it their work to lay wast all religion , whom no admonitions , church censures can do any good upon : heresies and errors now are as infectious , spreading , subverting whole houses , eating as a ga●grene , and so in the rest . master burroughs in his irenicum page . confesses there is a necessity of the magistrates power in matters of religion 〈◊〉 truth now , as there was then , and showes though we cannot argue the being of spirituall ordinances from our need of them , but from their institution , yet in naturall and civill things this way of arguing is strong enough ; there is need of such a help , and therefore we should seeke to have it . and the necessity of the magistrates coercive power under the gospel he sets down as follows . now sure the need we have of such a power is exceeding great , we were in a most miserable condition if we had no externall civill power to restraine from any kind of blasphemies and seducements . the condition of the jewes , o how happy was it in comparison of ours , if this were denied us ! for if any of theirs did blaspheme god , or seeke to seduce any from him , they knew what to doe with him besides perswading of him to the contrary ; but if any should seeke to seduce the wives of our bosomes , children of our bodies , friends as deare to us as our owne lives into those wayes that wee thinke in our consciences will und●e their soules to all eternity , yet we must only desire them they would not doe so , we must only admonish or seeke to convince them or remove them , but restraine them we cannet : if the deliverance of us from the pedagogy of the law hath brought us into this condition , our burden is greater in this thing then any that the law laid upon our forefathers ; hath christ delivered us from one burden to lay a greater upon us ? must we now see those who are dearest to us drawne into the way of eternall destruction , and stand and looks on , but no way left to help them or our selves , unlesse we can perswade to the contrary ? surely our condition is very sad : have we not cause to say , lord let any burden of the ceremoniall law be laid upon our necks , rather then this ; if there were a company of mad men running up and downe the streets with knives and swords in their hands , endeavouring to mischeif and kill all they meet with , and we must doe nothing to restraine them ; if we could perswade them to doe otherwise well and good : but that is all we can doe for helpe ; what a dangerous thing were this ? the case is the same , when those who are mad with damnable heresies , run from place , to place , seeking to draw all they can from the truth : if we have no meanes of helpe but 〈◊〉 , it is ill with us ; surely god hath not put his people ●●to such a sad condition or this is , be hath provided better for his people then thus . and i appeale to the consciences and experience of men , whether this power of the magistrate of punishing blasphemies and heresies be not found to be usefull and necessary both for the honour of god , the safety of other mens soules , the peace of church and state ? and whether all other mens without this ( when this might have beene had ) have made good these ends ? or whether this coming upon other means , as admonitions , instructions , synods , church censures , hath not suppressed heresies , schisms , vindicated the honor and truth of god , recovered many souls , setled the peace of churches and states , as among the donatists of old , and the arminians in holland of late . any mans reason , yea sense may tell him , that in this sinfull corrupted condition of man there is in coercive power a naturalnesse and sutablenesse to work upon the outward man for the furtherance of spirituall good , and that when no other means can , this power removes outward things that hindered , keeps from outward evils , applies outward means . and yet further , besides the same reasons and grounds now of the necessity of the magistrates coercive power , as well as under the old testament , there seemes to be new reasons under the gospel over and above that plead for the necessity of this power . as that under the gospel so many outward visible judgement● are not inflicted by god upon offenders as were under the law , whereupon master * cartwright speaks , certainly if ever there had beene any time wherein the magistrates sword might have rested in the sheath , the time of the law had of all beene fittest when the lord did so visibly sit in his judgement seat , and himselfe in proper person held the assise and gaile delivery . for as the lord doth not now by outward blessings give so plentifull testimony to the obedience of the gospel as the law , so doth he not with so many and so severe punishments revenge the breach of it as in the time of the law , for in these outward punishments the dispensation of god under the law is divers from that under the gospel , in that be did more terribly revenge disobedience , and therefore god not striking now so often immediately blasphemers , seducers , false prophets , schismaticks as under the law , the magistrates have the more need not to beare the sword in vaine , lest hereticks and false teachers go on the more desperately , corrupting and destroying all , but of these reasons i intend to speak more in the next thesis . seventhly , supposing all these commands simply judiciall , given to the jewes only ( which yet i have proved not to be so ) there are other commands and examples recorded in the old testament distinct from the judiciall , which cannor be counted judiciall , but are morall and perpetuall , as the fourth commandement ( one of the ten commandements ) given to the magistrate , that by his authority true religion be preserved , take place , and all false religion suppressed ( the proof of which is laid downe in the . thesis ) as that command psal . . , . given to kings and judges , which cannot be judiciall nor ceremoniall for severall reasons , neither have the patrons of toleration ever said so of it ( of which place i shall speak fully in the . thesis ) as those examples of abraham and jacob , not suffering those under their power & command to commit idolatry , which were long before those commands in the . & . chap. of dut. said to be judiciall , and that these examples were not judiciall , besides what the reader shall finde in the ninth and . theses , musculus in his common places de abrogatione mosaicae legis , even in that common place where his authority is most urged by the a patrons of toleration for the abrogation of all mosaicall lawes , b affirms that as a christian is not under the mastership of moses ; so likewise abraham was not under the pedagogie of moses . and so much for the first particular , that the commands for punishing idolaters , blasphemers , false prophets , &c. were of common reason and equity given for the times of the gospel . secondly , as to the grounds brought by the patrons of toleration , minus celsus senensis , hagiomastix , &c. that these commands doe● not binde now because they were c moses lawes , iewish and abrogated by christ , that we may by these commands as well prove the man moses is now alive , because hee was alive under the old testament , that if the commands be in force for inflicting of death , they be in force in all other particulars commanded by the same authority with this , as that the offenders must be put to death with stones onely , as that the whole city must be put to death , as the cattle must be slain as well as the inhabitants , as that the city must be a heap for ever and never built again , that there 's clear particular reasons why the old testament law for putting false prophets , blasphemer● and seducers to idolatry to death should not now be in force because the iewes to whom this law was given in all difficult cases about matters of religion had the opportunity of immediate consultation with god himself , who could & did from time to time infallibly declare what his own mind and pleasure was in them , because that corporall punishment was a type and pre significative of spiritual punishments , cutting off then , of casting out now , as also of eternal damnation : to these with divers such like i give these following answers , which i desire the reader to observe . first , besides the reasons already given that mos● lawes ( in the sense expressed ) for the punishment of apostates , blasphemers , &c. are not abrogated by christ , le ts con●ider that christ by his coming hath not abolished that law which containes the love of god , his glory and honour , and the love of our neighbour , and therefore neither those things which do necessarily belong unto and make for the love of god and our neighbour ; nor secondly those lawes in the old testament , which the new testament for the times of it approves of ; not lastly , those commands which are of the light of nature and the law of nature dictates , all which because they are so cleare and generally confessed , i shall forbear adding the proofs , and refer the reader for further satisfaction to zanchius de magistra●● quest . secunda . an magistratui christian● liceat capitales 〈◊〉 de haereticis sumere , page . bullingers histor . advers . anabaptist . liv . . cap. . pag. . musculus common places de magistratibus , pag. . mr. burrough irenicum page . but now the magistrates restraining and punishing false prophets , apostate● , blasphemers , &c. is an act of the love of god and his glory , of love to their brethrens soules , of safety and good to common-wealths , is very usefull and necessary for vindicating the glory of god , and good of the church ( the glory of god , and the salvation of our neighbour being by that meanes preserved ) is ●●proved of also in the new testament for the times of the gospel , and is the dictate of nature . for the proof of this assumption i shall make it evident in all the three parts of it . for the first that t is an act of the love of god and his glory and of love to our neighbour , besides the assertion of many great divines , as * zanchius , calvin , beza , bullinger , a●es●u● , &c. 't is apparent thus , because in the commands given by god , deu● . . deut. . for the magistrates punishing false prophets , idolaters , and those who would not hearken unto the preist , the reasons of his so doing and the ends of those punishments imply as much , and have reference all along to the honour of god , the vindicating his name , and keeping others from doing the like , as these phrases show , that prophet , or that dreamer of dreames shall be put to death , because he hath spoken to turne you away from the lord your god to thrust thee out of the way which the lord thy god commanded the● to walke in . and thou shalt stone him with stones that he di● : because he hath sought to thrust thee away from the lord thy god , and all israel shall heare and feare , and shall do n● more any such wickednesse as this is among you . if there be found among you man or woman that hath wrought wickednesse in the sight of the lord thy god , in transgressing his covenant , and hath gone and served other gods , then shall thou bring that man or that woman ( which have comm●tted that wicked thing ) unto thy gate● , and shalt stone them with stones till they die : so thou shalt put away the evill from among you . and the man that will d●e presumptuously , and will not hearken unto the preist , &c. even that man shall die , and thou shalt put away evill from israel . and all the people shall heare and feare and do no more presumptuously , which passages fully hold out the magistrates punishing blasphemers , idolaters , &c. to be an act of love to god : and the people , yea of zeale to his glory and the salvation of the people : that sentence , so thou shalt put the evill away from among you , saith * peter martyr , is in the law of moses the fountain of all punishments of wickednesses against the second table , as of transgressions against the first ; and therefore if the magistrates punishing of murther , theft , adultry , &c. for the taking away of the evill from amongst the people , be an act of love to god and man , a vindication of the glory of god , then the punishing of blasphemie , idolatry , and such like for the taking away of the evill is an act of love to god and our neighbour : the punishing of menbers of the church under the gospel by excommunication is held an act of zeale to the glory of god , and love to the church : the reasons why such a censure ought to bee in the church , are refer'd to , those heads by * divines , yea by the separatists and independents themselves , as * mr. robinson and others , and those very reasons and ends spoken of in deut. of putting away the evill from among you , as the people shall heare and feare and doe no more presumptuously , are in the new testament by paul given as the reasons of excommunication , cor. . . . tim. . . tim. . . ( those very phrases there used by paul being alluded unto , and taken from those in deut●ronomie ) and therefore if love to god and men stands in these sentences under the gospel borrowed from the law , of putting away the evil , of others fearing and doing no more so , then certainly love to god and men is contained in those reasons and ends under the law , the originall and fountaine from whence the gospell took them ; nay , yet further , excommunication ( which i have shewed is founded on the reasons expressed in deut. . . ) is made by christ an act of brotherly love matth. . , , . compared with levit. . . secondly , because those kings magistrates and persons recorded in scripture above others for loving god and the people , for being most zealous of gods honour and glory used most this coercive power against idolaters , seducers , blasphemers , &c. of all others , and more especially at such times when they were at best for grace and goodnesse and commended by the spirit of god for their zeale and forwardnesse , as moses in the businesse of the golden calf , as the children of israel in the case of the two tribes and a halfe building an altar , as asa , jehoshaphat , hezekiah , josiah , then spoken of especially for zeale , courage , perfect hearts , when they most exercised the power of the sword against idolatry , apostasie and all wil-worship : when jehu and jehoash were at best , had most zeale , they destroyed baal and his worshippers ; manasses upon his conversion in his first love and zeale commanded judah to serve the lord god of israel , and took away the strange gods and all the altars , and cast them out of the city : nebuchadnezar , darius , upon their hearts affected by the sight of the great works of god make lawes for gods honour against blasphemy , &c. christ out of his zeale of his fathers . house and love to his glory , used coercive power upon those who made his fathers house a house of merchandise ( though he never used it in matters of the second table but declined it ) john . , , . compared with psal . . . of which i shall speak more in the . thesis . paul out of love and zeale to the glory of god , and the salvation of the galathians prayes for corporall capitall punishment upon false teachers , gal. . . which place that t is so ●o be understood , i shall prove it in the . thesis . and i desire the patrons of teleration to answer this question , whether in their consciences they think not those godly magistrates under the old testament , as moses , josiah , &c. punished idolaters , &c. out of love to god and their brethren , whether love and zeale set them not awork ? which if they did , certainly they were to continue under the gospel : for i would willingly know * what good reason can be given that magistrates under the gospel should not have as much zeale and love to god and the publike , as they had under the law , and if under the law it made them restraine blasphemers , idolaters , &c. if their zeale and love workt so , why not now also when the glory of god and the safety of the church requires it , the magistrate after other remedies used in vaine , should draw the sword against hereticks , apostates and blasphemers . ames . casus consc . lib. . cap. . do haeresi . thirdly , the magistrates punishing with the sword traytors , murtherers , theeves , adulterers , that so god may not be dishonoured by those sinnes , nor the common-wealth and our neighbours hurt , is an act of love to god and men as is evident by the office , rom. . verse , . compared with , , . verses and by other reasons that might be given if it were needfull . bullinger in his fifth book , chapter . page . against the anabaptists , showes that the punishing of offenders is according to christian love , that the magistrates punishing is not only profitable for one man , but for the whole common-wealth , the punishment of one guilty person preserving many alive , and that just punishment is not against love , neither doth true love abrogate punishments . zanchi● in his . tractate de magistrat● quaest . secunda , writes to this effect , that to punish offenders who are injurious to god and our neighbour , is a work of charity , which requires that we should defend the glory of god and the safety of our neighbour by all meanes that may be ; as when theeves , robbers , murtherers , are by the magistrate taken away , lest the city and our neighbour should be hurt , this certainly is a work of charity : so doubtlesse those obstinate hereticks who go on to blaspheme the name of god , who overthrow religion and piety , who corrupt the true and sound doctrine , who disturbe the peace of the churches , who steak from their neighbours the members of the church not their estates neither kill their bodies , but endeavour to destroy their soules , doe most of all wrong god and their neighbour , therefore to punish them is the greatest work of love to god and their neighbour . now if the restraining of those who spoyle men of their goods , temporall lives , outward dignities , that corrupt and embase coyne bee a work of love to god and man , then to hinder blasphemies , treasons immediately against the supreame majesty of god and his kingdome , the ruining of immortall soules and the eternall lives of men , the adulterating the truth of god and the faith once delivered to the saints is an act of higher love to gods glory and our brethren , in as much as such offences immediately against god transcend any treason against earthly kings , and the killing of soules is a greater evill then the killing of bodies , and the corrupting the truth more dangerous then counterfeiting or mixing baser mettals with gold or silver . wolphius in deut. . si quis human at tabulas depravatet magnum est : quid de divinis . in a city if any one seeke to draw away persons from the prince and government , and to draw men to their side , they are punished , and should they escape unpunished for drawing men away from the king of kings ? as also because those reasons and ends appointed for punishments of the second table , as to take away the evill , as that others shall bears and feare , &c. ( which showes punishments are acts of love ) are given for a ground of punishing idolatry , false prophesying , &c. yea set downe more expressely in those commands then in the others , with other reasons too , as of turning th●t away from the lord thy god , which implies also love to god and our brethren . what followes hence then ? therefore those preceps which god hath given magistrates of punishing offenders , hereticks , subverters of religion are not abrogated by the coming of christ , because by that meanes the glory of god and the safety of our neighbour are preserved . commands to magistrates for punishing in matters of religion , being no more against christian charity then punishment of traytors , seditious persons , theeves , &c. and therefore as they are not abrogated by the coming of christ , so neither are these . the old anabaptists ( as * bullinger shows at large in that excellent book of his ) who were against magistrates punishing in matters of religion , and that al those commands in deut. . &c. were meerly mosaical and abrogated , held as wel those commands for punishing murtherers , theeves , &c. to be abrogated , and that among christians no offences should be punished with prisons , mulcts , death , but only excommunication , and among other reasons they gave this , because it was against brotherly love , which they urged equally against bodily punishments for transgressions against the second table as they did for punishments against the first ; and indeed * lucas osiander with others who write against anabaptists for denying that christians may be punished with outward punishments for any offences , show they bring the same arguments , as that in matthew . of the tares , &c. which the patrons of tolaration doe now against the magistrates coercive power in matters of religion , but bullinger showes very well at large , that those commands given in exod. deuter. levit. of punishing capitally in some transgressions against the first and second table , were according to the law of love , and that by the same reason by which the punishing by the magistrate in matters of religion , is against christian charity , the punishing of theeves , seditious and flagitious persons will bee so to . and bullinger askes the question whether it had not beene more agreeable to love , if in the beginning of the tumult of mu●ster in west-phalia , a few seditious kn●ves had beene put into prison , and according to their demerit punished , then that whilst no man is punished for his conscience , such a horrible slaughter of many should follow , and the anabaptists should farre and 〈◊〉 destroy all with fire and sword . secondly , that the magistrates punishing of apostates and false prophets is approved of for the times of the gospel , i shall speak to it fully in the . and . thees , and therefore will not anticipate my selfe , onely say this , that in zac. . v. , . a prophecie of the times of the gospel we finde the same thing , almost the same words which are in deut. . . thirdly , t is the dictate of nature , t is of the law of nature and of all nations to punish●men for violations in religion as well as for matters of life and goods : i will not here enter into a large discussion of that question what 's requisite , and how many ingredients go to make a thing of the law of nature , and how jus naturale and jus positivum differ . i shall referre the reader in this question to many learned tractates and discourses of it by the * schoolmen and casuists , to popish and protestant divines , particularly to amisius cases of conscience , book . first chapter de jure , voetius theses de vecat . gentium part . secund . de jure & justitia dei. master seldens de jure naturali & gentium first book throughout , especially the third and eight chapters . master burges vindiciae legis . . and . lectures . master cawd . master palm . sabbatum redivivum cap. . pag. , , &c. i will build only upon that which all learned men who have written of the law of nature grant , viz. that to hold there is a god , and that that god is to be adored and worshipped is of the law of nature , yea it is principium juris naturalis . musculus in his common places , de lege nature , p. . and de legib . pag. . showes t is of the law of nature to have a sense of a deity , and that this deity is to be worshipped and feared : so that from the beginning among all men some religion hath alwayes beene received . so purchas pilhrimage chap. . p. , . among all the lessons which nature hath taught , this is deepliest indented religion : the falshoods and variety of religions are evidences of this truth , seeing men will rather worship a beast , stock or basest creature , then professe no religion at all . it is manifest then that the image of god was by the fall depraved , but not uttrerly extinct ; among other sparks this also being raked up in the ruines of our decaied nature , some science of the god-head , some conscience of religion . now all those nations whom the law of nature instructed to beleeve and worship a deity , it instructed also not to suffer their god and the religion they embraced to be openly blasphemed and spoken against ; and i doe not beleeve any instance can be given of any nation or body of people among the heathen formed into a common-wealth who punished not a theists and blasphemers of their gods. the best writers and historians among heathens , and of heathens , as cicero , seneca , plato , aristotle , plutarch , livie , justin , diogenes laertius , caelius rhodiginus , diodorus siculus , herodotus , xenophon , assure us of lawes and punishments enacted by princes and states in matters of religion ; and other historians who write histories of the world , of all ages and times , as sir walter rawleigh , purchas , &c. give us many instances in this kind among all sorts of religions and people . whence 't is that so many learned men , zanchius , musculus , peter martyr , beza , with divers others finding lawes and punishments of this nature so common and generall among commonwealths and kingdomes , and that in so many examples recorded in the old and new testament and in other authors , make punishments by magistrates for violation of religion to bee of the light of nature as they doe the knowledge of a god , and that hee is to bee feared and worshipped . bullinger in his fifth book against the anabaptists fifth chapter , in answer to the anabaptists affirming the commands of punishing in matters of religion belong to moses sword , are mosaicall from which christians are now freed , saith that this coercive power was not by moses then instituted as being never before , and as a ceremoniall law which should cease in the time of christ , but from the beginning this law as natural and necessary was appointed by god. for all the old magistrates before moses , from this command of god used this sword . and this law therefore god inserted in the israelitical laws , which is not now taken away by christs coming as a mosaicall coaction , because christ abrogated not the policie and law of nature . musculu● in his common places de magistratibus shewing the magistrates coercive power in matters of religion to be so manifest a truth as that the heathen could nor be ignorāt of it , concluds t is to be much more acknowledged by christians , * neither is it that any man should say it s not for us christians to harken in points of religion what the light of our nature dictates unto us , but what the scripture speaks to us of which are given for that end , that we may be instructed to every good work . for although in those things which concerne the mysteries of our faith , the law of nature is not to bee consulted with , but rather the scriptures , yet also-those things ought not to be contemned which by god are written in our ●earts by nature , as is that law of nature whose direction both the prophets , christ and his apostles , commend to us . is not that power which fathers have over their children of the law of nature which the scripture also confirms . and who wi●l deny that it specially belongs to parents to bring up their children in true religion and the feare of god ? in abraham this was praised gen. . now if wee consider the magistrate , what is hee otherwise to be accounted of , then the supreme father of all his subjects , whose power is much greater , then of a father over children , and therefore it belongs more to him then to a father , that be should take upon him the care of religion and among ●is subjects set it up . as for musculus authority which is so much urged by minus celsus senenfis sect tertia page . that all the judiciall lawes are by the gospell wholly antiquated , and therefore those of deut. . deut. . &c. concerning the killing of false prophet● , blasphemers : i answer , t is evident that is not musculus meaning that under the gospell magistrates may not make lawes or punish for points of religion : for in many of his writings he pleads for this coercive power , as in the second psal . verse . serve the lord with feare . let them note this place who deny kingly and saecular power that the magistrate b●th to doe in the cause of religion . the spirit of god admonishes kings and judges of the earth to serve the lord. but hee understands it of that service which is due to the sonne of god. let them answer here in what thing , princes ought to serve christ if in religion there be nothing at all which ought to be done by them . when therefore princes by their power doe care that the doctrine of gods word be kept in the church , idolatry and false worships taken away , ministers conveniently provided for , and adversaries suppressed , forbidding also that the name of god be blasphemed , and ●aring that those who live godly may be safe , but the wicked and turbulent may be punished , do they not serve christ then ? so in his commentaries on the * fifth of the gal. . verse he is for cutting off false teachers by the christian magistrate , which mr. goodwi●● page . of his h●giomastix confesses of him . so in his common places de magistratibus and de haeresi hee pleads for at large the coercive power of the magistrates in matters of religion , and * particularly of restraining and imprisoning hereticks , yea , in case they be blasphemous against god of cutting them off by death . for saith hee , the law of god doth not suffer a blasphemer to live . by which testimonies of musoulus and divers others that might be taken out of his writings t is apparent whatever his meaning was of the abrogation of the whole judiciall law , it could not bee that all the commands concerning the magistrates coercive power against hereticks , false prophets , blasphemers , were by the comming of christ wholly taken away : for whereas musoulus his expresse judgement is ( though against the magistrates cutting off by death a simple heretick ) for putting to death blasphemous hereticks , his proof is , the law of god doth not suffer a blasphemer to live , which law was given by moses as well as those in the . and . chapter of deut. and i find no law spoken of , or example recorded in the new testament for putting blasphemers to death , but what hath immediate reference to that law in l●vit . . . or was founded on the law of nature common to all nations . now for that abrogation of the mosaicall law in mus●ulus common places de legibus spoken of by minus celsus senensis , t is not of the abrogation of the judiciall law only but of the morall also , which is equally pleaded by musculus in that chapter ; and yet t is well known that musculus was no antinomian , so that however , he differed in the way of his expressions from other great divines about the manner how the morall law in the ten commandements binds us christians , viz. not as delivered by moses legally to the israelites , but as agreeing with the law of nature , justice and equity , commanding good just , and holy things , so far tying all men to observance . * musculus explains his own meaning , that the observation of the decalogue did not belong simply to the israelites alone , but secundum quid in some respects as given by moses upon mount sinai , and as it contained the tables of a covenant made by god with israel . so farre it binds not heathens nor christiens but only israelites . but the things containe● in the decalogue , the matter of it concernes all . the decalogue so farr as to be under moses , and his paedagogie doth not binde christians , but as it contains things agreeable , or contrary to righteousnesse and the law of christ t is in force to , and therfore cōmands the one and forbids the other . musculus saith he is so farre from condemning the use of the ten commandements in the church of god , that he greatly praises their study and diligence , who first brought that in for a part of the catechisme of the church . so that notwithstanding any thing musculus hath of the abrogation of the mosaical law , moses laws for punishing idolaters , false prophets blasphemers , are in force now for the generall equity and reason of them as containing matter agreeable to the rules of reason and justice as well as the decalogue ; and indeed confidering what musculus in his tractate de legibus writes of the judiciall lawes that they are appendixes of the morall commands , inserted here and there in moses writings and added for exposition of the decalogue , as also what he saith de magistratibus that the magistrates power in matters of religion is of the light of nature , nature dictates it , and that the law is still in force against blasphemers , then wee cannot understand the abrogation of these lawes of moses of punishing in matters of the first table , to be any otherwise meant by musculus then in his sense of the abrogation of the decalogue formerly expressed . . the reasons of those commands expressed in the . and . chapters of deut. concerning putting to death false prophets , apostates , &c. whether taken from the nature of the things themselves to which drawn , or the nature of the persons guilty , seducers , or the common condition of the sons of men , shall feare and do no more so , &c. or the end of punishments , putting away evill , to which of them soever we look , they have been , were , and are stil the same , always of a like nature and force both before the commands were given by moses , in moses time , and now under the gospell , and therefore the reasons of those lawes being perpetuall and universall not abrogated by christ , neither are the lawes themselves ( of which though i gave a touch of it in pag. . ) yet i shall here further cleare it . t is a rule given by many divines in such sentences as these , tale praceptum qualis ratio praecepti . ratio immutabilis facit praceptum immutabile . vbi ratio legis redditur moralis , ibi ●ex ipsa est moralis . officia illa omnia sunt moralia et immutabilia , quae rationes morales & immutabiles habent sibi annexas . now though this rule is liable to exceptions and holds not universally as in levit. . . some speciall determination may be confirmed by a generall reason ; and the immutable nature of the law-giver hath its place and vertue in appointing mutable commands . yet where the reasons of a law ex natura rei & not meerly ex instituto are perpetual and universal , and the duties following from those reasons founded thereon , the special inward and proper reason of such a command being morall and perpetual ; there alwayes it followes that law is morall and perpetual , of which the reader may bee further satisfied in ames cases consc . lib. . cap. . quaest . . and his medulla l. . c. . now the speciall inward and proper reason of that command deut. . so shalt thou put the evill away from the midst of thee , is juris moralis & naturalis , and therefore so is the command itselfe . for a conclusion of this that these lawes of punishing idolaters , false prophets , &c. were not properly judiciall lawes , nor abrogated by christs comming , le ts take notice that that distinction of the judiciall law from the morall , viz. the morall law was given of god publikly declared by his voice twice writ in tables of stone , but the judiciall was afterwards delivered to moses , and by moses to the people without any such solemnity , is no exact nor perfect one . for many of the laws not expressed in the decalogue , but delivered afterwards among the judiciall , as about restoring the pledge , of weights and just measures , of giving the hire to the laborour , and many other such like , are no more judiciall or lesse morall then thou shalt not steal , yea such commands are transferred to the times of the gospell , as that of levit , . . to matth. . . and luke . . and therefore though these commands of punishing blasphemers , apostates , false prophets , &c. bee not expressed in the decalogue , but added after , yet they may bee no more judiciall then the third and fourth commandement . and therefore the most accurate distinction that is given by divines between judiciall lawes properly so called , and those lawes numbred among the judiciall , is this , those were properly judiciall lawes which had a singular respect to the people of the jewes , so as the reason cause and foundation of them was placed in some peculiar condition of that people : but those lawes which were wont to be reckoned among the judicials , and yet in their reason had no singular respect or relation to the condition of the jewes more then to other people , all those are of morall naturall right common to all people , of which distinction with some other particulars about the nature of the judiciall law , and how farr it binds christians under the gospell i referre the reader to * ames . cases of conscience the fifth book , chapt . . de jure and to zepperus explanation of the mosaicall lawes , chap. . who shewes two extreams of men in that point , one in the excesse holding all the judiciall lawes promiscuously in force , others in the defect holding them all and wholly abolished , but holds the middle way between both , viz. what ever in the mosaicall lawes hath an immutable and perpetuall reason and nature by common right , immu●ably and alwayes as by an adamantine chaine binds all men in all times and places : but whatsoever hath an implied reason and condition of change , does no longer bind the consciences of christians . zepperus also in his first book chapt . . of the mosaicall lawes , answers at large the places brought by minus celsus senens . and others , out of musculus , luther , calvin . zanchius and others , for the abrogation of these lawes , showing they are understood only of those things that peculiarly belonged to the commonwealth of the jewes , and as given by moses to the israelites , and not of such judicialls which either in the law of nature or decalogue have their reason founded . now of this latter sort , are all those commands for the substance of them , for punishing the false prophe● , apostate , &c. as appears in the nature of those laws and the reasons of them : for what singular respect or relation to the condition of the jews , hath taking the evill away , fearing and doing no more so , turning away from the lord their god , more , then to the condition of christians . thirdly , as to hagiomastixs affirmation page that to prove by the law of god in the old testament , deut. . &c. that false prophets blasphemers , &c. may be bodily punished under the new testament is all one as if a man should go about to prove that the man moses is now alive , by this argument viz. because hee was alive under the old testament , i answer , . moses is alive under the new testament , as god said in the bush to moses , i am the god of abraham , and the god of isaac , and the god of jacob , so god is the god of moses as well as of abraham , &c. now god is not the god of the dead but of the living . matth. . . compared with mark . , . . though moses body be dead and buried by god in a sepulcher that no man knowes of , yet his doctrine may be alive , t is a grosse non sequitur , that their doctrine must be dead and buried whose bodyes are dead , for then davids doctrine in the psalmes , the prophets doctrine , yea the evangelists and apostles doctrine should be dead , they being now all dead as well as moses , and so all proofes brought for any doctrine , from davids psalmes , the prophets , the new testament may be thus evaded , by saying , we may go about to prove david , the prophets , evangelists and apostles are now alive by this arguments , because they were alive some of them thousands , and others of them many hundred yeares agoe . thirdly besides this false consequence , t is evident upon many grounds that doctrines are alive , doe bind when the publishers and writers of them are dead , yea they are written for that end , that they may teach and bee a rule when the men who writ them are dead , that being dead , by these they may yet speak as the apostle ●om . . . tells us ; yea many things are spoken and written to be a rule of direction to the church , intended to take place rather after their death then in their life time , as the prophecies of the prophets , and some prophecies also of the apostles , so that it may be said as z●ch . chapter . verse . your fathers , where are they , and the prophets , do they live for ever ? but my words and my statu●● which i commanded my servants the prophets ; did they no● take hold of your fathers ? though pen-men and writers of scripture die , yet their words and doctrine take hold and place when they are dead . fourthly by this reason of holding moses is now alive , if the law of god in the old testament binds , it will follow that all moses doctrine , the ten commandements and all he writ in the pentatench , genesis , &c. are void as well as these commands about punishing false prophets , &c. for they were made known and written by moses when hee was alive , and to bee found in his books together with these lawes termed judiciall : so that the antinomian may as well say the same against the morall law under the gospell , when the ten commandements are pressed , and the socinian and anabaptist against those commands to put to death murtherers , which now master john goodwin doth against these lawes in deut. . &c. that men may as well prove the man moses is now alive , by these commands , because he was alive under the old testament , as bring those places of scripture written by moses to prove the morall law in force , and those commands who so sheddeth mans bloud , by man shall his bloud bee shed . fifthly whatever hagiomastix by way of scoffe hath spoken thus of proving as well moses may be now alive , t is evident , besides the new testaments confirmation in many places of the evangelists and epistles , of the old testament being in force in the dayes of the gospell ( of which i shall speak in the . thesis and so will pare the reader here ) it by name particularly ratifies the doctrine and authority of moses writings , and proves and urges severall things upon men under the gospell from texts taken out of the five books of moses , as these places in the new testament unanswerably show , matth. . , . matth. , , , . mark . . luke . , , . luke . . john . . acts . . act. . . acts . . rom. . , , , , . rom. . , . rom. . . . ephes . . . . yea severall particulars of the judiciall lawes , are brought to prove duties required in the new testament as page , , . of this book showes ; and lastly moses authority and writings are of such sacred account under the new testament , that in the p●●lation the book that concludes and shuts up the canon of the new testament , the book that speaks of things that shall be in the church of the new testament till the end of the world , moses his name and writing are joyned with the lamb , and that to be made use of by the most eminent and faithfull servants of god , that have gotten the victory ever the beast , and over his image , and over his marke , and over the number of his name , these standing on the sea of glasse having the harp of god , sing the song of moses the servant of god , and the song of the lamb , saying , great and marvellous are thy works lord god almighty , &c. so that all these things being laid together , i suppose by this time every ingenuous reader must needs see , that by this answer to deut. . &c. hagiomastix intended rather to spread a table of mirth for himselfe and his church to feast on , then to give any satisfaction to the reverend author of the vindication of the printed paper entituled an ordinance for the preventing of heresies , &c. and the rest of the presbyterians . fourthly , as to that answer of hagiomastix p. . . they that will have the ancient law for putting blasphemers & idolaters to death to be now in force , must consequently hold t is in force not simply only as to the inflicting of death upon the offenders , but in all other particulars commanded by the same authority , as not be killed after any māner , nor with any kind of death , but with stones , not only the seducer but the seduced themselves , though whole cites , not only the inhabitants , but the cattel also , with divers other particulars named in that of deut. . for if men will urge this law as being still in force , they make themselves debters to urge the execution of the whole in all the particularities and circumstances thereunto belonging . for who hath any power to make an election or reprobation amongst the commandements of god , where god himself hath made none . i reply , it followes not : t is no good consequence that all circumstances , accessories , particularities must bind because the substance of a command binds ; or that the substance and summe of a command must be taken away , because some circumstances , formes and particularities are not in force . to argue a thing it selfe abolished , because the modus of it binds not alwayes , or that the substance and essentials must cease , because divers accessories , circumstantials and formes wherewith it was clothed most suitable to such a time , countrey condition of such a people , are ceased , is a fallacie a dicto sec●ndum quid ad dictum simpliciter , which all logitians know is no good reasoning : if i , or any other presbyterian had argued thus , such a mans bond binds not now , or this is not such a man , hee is dead , because his apparell , haire , place of abode , with some other such accessories are changed antiquite altered , we should certainly have spread a table of mirth for the independents , and therfore i judge , for hagiomastix thus to reason shows no great strength , and i doe desire mr. john goodwin , but to rub up his old * logick of the nature and difference of substance , and accidents , and then i know he will confesse ( though for him to confesse any thing as manifest as the light wherein he is mistaken in writing , is as rare as a black swan ) that accidents may be varied and taken away salva substantia . and that i may show the weaknes of this reasoning , that this . of deut. is therfore not in force because then the manner of punishing with stones , and the person tempted to idolatry , though never so deare , stoning him , with divers other particulars must stil bind , i shal give instances in the old and new testament of morall and evangelicall commands , and examples , that the things themselves are in force , and yet many accessories , acccidentals , circumstantials accompanying them at such a time in such places , and such a condition of the church , not binding ; and certainly if commands and rules confessed to bee morall and evangelicall had such accessories , accidentals , circumstantials , formes and manner of expressions accompanying them , to which wee are not now tied though wee are to the commands and duties themselves , then the commands cald judiciall in deut. . . because consisting in judgements and matters of punishing offences , may easily bee conceived upon severall reasons , to have for the manner and forme of proceeding with the kinds and extent of punishments , many accessories & accidentals to which the church of the new testam . is no ways bound ▪ although not free from the substance of the commands , or those iawes as containing such a doctrine that in their generall nature and proportion of equity give us the best determination naturalis juris , as * amesius speakes . the decalogue is in force and binding for the matter and substance of the commands of all christians under the n. testament as is confessed even by them that hold the judicial lawes totally abrogated , and yet many of them plead that in divers respects , and in severall particular things , viz. accessories & appendixes attending that time and that people , the jewes , as under such considerations , that law binds not us : now though the judgement of the generality of orthodox divines goes not along with them all their expressions about the māner of the abrogation , yet al confesse that even in the decalogue there are some things , accessories accommodated to that time & condition of that people the jews , which have the nature of ceremonials & judicials , as that clause in the preface which brought thee out of the land of egypt , out of the house of bondage , upon which the ten commandements are inforced to the jewes , as that clause in the * fifth command that thy dayes may be long upon the land which the lord thy god giveth thee , was specially meant and had particular relation to the land of canaan , though in the generall equity it was meant of a good and long life upon earth , as is evident by ephes . . . where the apostle changes it from dayes being long in the land which the lord thy god giveth , to this , that it may be well with thee and thou maiest live long on the earth , as something in the fourth commandement , which that colos , . , . showes , and so some other phrases might be instanced in , which bind not ; and yet from hence to reason against the decalogues binding christians under the new testament , as hagiomastix in page , . against that command in deut. . and to say as he does were frivilous and absurd : now if it be so in the matter of the decalogue , then the same reason holds more in deut. . the government , discipline , and order of the visible church laid downe in the new testament for the essentials and substantials binds all churches to the end of the world , as the reformed churches hold , and divers ministers of that way as gersom bucerus , parker , danaeus , cartwright , &c have written , and yet they doe not hold all accessories , circumstantials , occasionals , &c of discipline spoken of in the new testament to bind , but distinguish of things , showing what 's immutable and perpetuall , and what not , of which the reader may consult parker , de politia ecclesiastica , * danaeus on the first of timothie , who showes in divers places of that book that the fundamentals , essentials and substantials of ecclesiasticall discipline cannot bee increased nor diminished by any new constitutions of men : but for accessories and accidentals they may be diminished , increased and moderated according to the various circumstances of places , things , persons and times . for discipline being as a comely garment fitted to things , persons and times , as these may be changed viz times , &c so discipline also in accessories and lighter things may be altered , and if out of a folish zeal of observing all things practised in the apostles times men will imitate all things then done without considering a difference of times , places and state of things , they must needs doe that which will bee to the great evill of the church and detriment of consciences . * independents themselves though they hold the substantials of church government and order ought to bee the same in our times , that they were in the apostles , yet they doe not in all circumstantials nor accidentals judge discipline now binds ; and i suppose if hagiomastix had thus reasoned against their independent government and order , that if that tied us in these dayes , then wee are bound to all circumstances and accessories , as to the number of seven deacons , &c as to widowes just of such an age , &c or else the office of deacons and widowes are ceased in the church , they would have laughed at him for his folly , and yet this is the way of the mans reasoning against the command of god , deut. . . the command it selfe must be wholly abrogated , or else all accessories and formalities accompanying it christians are tied unto . baptism , the lords supper , preaching of the word to speak properly are not points of government and order , but the worship of god : love , humility , hospitality , are graces and morall duties commanded under the gospell , and yet all these with many others of the like kind that i could instance in , had in the apostles dayes those primitive times , some accessories and appendixes , wayes of manifestations of them which are now ceased , as the feasts of love , the kisse of love , washing the saints feet , &c. in which humility , brotherly love , kindnes to strangers were expressed , as proper & peculiar to that condition the church was then in , & the customes of those countries , &c. now if any seeker should reason with hagiomastix that these ordinances were all antiquated , or any antinomian that these graces were not to be exercised by us now , because these accessories and appendixes were laid aside , or would inforce from the practise of them a necessity of washing feet , the kisse of love , and all other things proper and peculiar to the state of the apostles , i suppose he would laugh at them , and in his answer jear them to purpose . now therfore if in evangelicall ordinances and commands , in points of worship and graces under the time of the new testament , where there is still one and the same manner of administration of the coveenant of grace , there may be such a non obligation in respect of accessories and accidentals , though yet the ordinances and graces themselves remain in full force and vigor , we may then easily conceive in commands concerning punishments of sin against the first table , how under the new testament being a divers manner of administratiō from the old ( though the same in substance ) there may well be a great change of accessories , accidentals , formes , and manner of proceeding , which neverthelesse give no ground for the taking away things and commands themselves , but only clearly show there may bee a cessation of all such forms , accessories , manner of proceeding , which were peculiar to that time and people . and if wee do but observe and consider the composition of most of the mosaicall lawes , how they are mixt of morall , judiciall , and ceremoniall , how lawes judiciall have something morall , and something ceremoniall in them , and ceremonials have something judiciall and morall in them , and how that those things which in their nature are moral and perpetuall , have yet somewhat judiciall and ceremoniall annexed to them , of all which we may be further satisfied in zepperus his explanation of the mosaicall lawes , we may easily conceive how in these mosaicall lawes , a command the thing it selfe may be binding for the substance , and yet severall particulars accompanying as being properly judiciall and ceremoniall may cease , among which now the form and kinds of punishments , the extent with rigor and severity of punishing to the cattell , the making the city a heap for ever , &c may be reckoned ; and that these are but accessories and appendixes of these lawes for punishing idolaters , false prophets , which therefore may not bind , though the commands for the substance be still in force , may appeare thus , because inflicting death simply upon apostates , false prophets , &c is commanded without any of these accessories of destroying the cattel , and making the city an heap , &c as these places exod. . . deut. . , , . and deut. . . snow , which is worthy to be taken notice of ; besides in the commands to punish those who offer up their children to molech , and that blaspheme god , levit. . . leuit. . . the inflicting of death upon them is required , but none of those particulars mentioned deut. , , , . in the new testament also , though the punishing by death according to moses law of apostates be approved of , as in page , . of this book i have showen , and severall judiciall lawes for the substance ratified page , . yet the formalities , accessories , with all particularities of such lawes never are spoken of ; and lastly , though severe punishment by the magistrate the substance of that command in deut. . be both before moses lawes as in jobs time , and after moses times by artaxerxes , nebuchadnezzar , darius in cases of apostasie , idolatry , blasphemie , approved of ; yet there is not a word spoken of destroying cattell , the whole cities , &c. and to stop hagiomast . mouth for ever , i wish him to consider this , that by vertue of commands under the old testament , apostates , false prophets , idolaters , may be now put to death , and yet the magistrates under the gospel not bound to destroy whole cities , cattell , nor fulfill the rest of his inferences : for it will appeare by many instances in the old testament , even in that time of administration of the covenant , wherein the . of deut. was written , that the magistrates held not themselves bound to àll those particulars of destroying all the inhabitants , cattell , &c. though they inflicted punishments , yea death upon some idolaters , and apostates , as these instances fully show , viz. in moses exod. . commanding in the worship of the golden calfe three thousand to be slaine , not all the people , nor the cattell , numb . . , , , . commanding for the bowing downe to the gods of moab , the heads of the people to be hanged up , not all the people , neither the cattell to be killed , in eliah killing the prophets of baal only , kings c. . not the people ; in asa , entring into covenant that whosoever would not serve the lord the god of israel should be put to death , and in deposing machah , his mother for making an idoll in a grove chron. c. . but not entring into covenant to destroy all the cattell and the cities where such persons lived ; in josiah sacrificing all the priest of the high places in samaria that were there upon the altars kings . chapt . . but not sacrificing the people nor the cattell ; and so in others which might be given . and therfore if magistrates under the old testament , though all thought it their duty to punish● idolaters and apostates , were not tied to all the particulars in deut. . then certainly the magistrates under the new are lesse tied to those accessories and formalities of that law , by all which t is apparent those things laid down in * deut. . , , . are only accessories & accidentals of that cōmand of punishing with death those that goe after other gods , and not of the nature and essence of it ; yea holding only in some particular cases , time , but not generall to the iewes themselves , which in what cases and how , i shall forbearespeaking of now for feare of inlarging this part beyond its proportion intended . and for a conclusion of this ; the consideration of this mixture and composition of the lawes of god under the old testament is exceeding usefull for this purpose , viz. that thereby wee may judge more easily of the mutabilitie or immutabilitie of them , whether they be temporary or perpetuall , and so whether they bind all men , or only some . in commands alledged out of the old testament , this is to bee carefully lookt into whether they be meerly and purely morall or ceremoniall or judiciall ; or whether mixt and compounded , and how , of what lawes mixt . if the command bee pure and simple the thing is evident , where morall is binds , where ceremoniall or judiciall it binds not . but if it bee mixt of judiciall , ceremoniall and morall , or of ceremoniall and morall , the morall remains and is in force : by all which wee may see the weaknes of hagiomastixs inference , that if that command in deut. . does at all bind christians , it must binde in every particular there spoken of : for what 's morall in deut. . abides , and yet what 's properly judiciall and ceremoniall is taken away : look as that were no good argument against the fifth commandement being in force under the new testament , because then what was judiciall and ceremoniall in it as containing the promise of the land of canaan , and a blessing in it &c. must remaine under the gospel , so neither is this of hagiomast . for as a command morall may have somewhat judiciall mixed with it , so may a command judiciall have much of morall in it ; but now what judiciall lawes and how mixed are temporary and changeable , and upon what rules and grounds , and what judiciall lawes are immutable and perpetuall , and how to bee known , i referre the reader for satisfaction to zepperus explanation of the mosaicall lawes , . book chapt . , , , . and as for those commands in question of magistrates punishing in cases of apostasie , idolatry , blasphemie , they are upon all occasions reckoned by learned divines among the immutable and perpetuall , as by zanchius de magistratu quaest . secunda p. , . beza de haereti●is a magistratu● puniendi● , p. . , . and by zepperus in his explanation of the mosaicall judiciall laws , first book c. . page . and . book chapt . . p. . where hee makes the lawes against the false prophet teaching publikely , the private seducer , the publike defection of the whole city , &c to bee appendixes of the first command and of common right , and particularly in the third chapter of that fourth book proves by severall reasons the punishing of false teachers , hereticks , blasphemers , ought to bee perpetuall , which learned authors notwithstanding , grant the kinds of punishments , the particular forms of those lawes , and as they were given of moses to bee constitutive of the jewes pollicy , to be changeable and not binding : the kinds of punishments are taken away , christ would not have the gentile magistrate to be bound to those lawes for the kind of punishments which were given to the jewish magistrates , but notwithstanding punishments in generall are not taken away , but commanded . in the constituting the kind of punishment , there seems a peculiar reason to have been had of that nation . there were certaine peculiar things in those lawes that doe not now belong to us which particulars being taken away , there are two things by vertue of those lawes remaine . first , that defection from the true religion , and seducing to tha defection should be punished by the magistrate no● . secondly , that capitall punishment should be inflicted according to the greatnes of the blasphemy and wickednesse upon factious and seditions apostates . for of such account ought the majesty of god to be among all men in all ages of the world , that whosoever shall despise and mock at that , be who speakes evill of the author of life , is most worthy to have his life taken away . so zanchius de magistratu quaest , secunda page . . , , and beza de haereticis a magistrat● p●niendis page , . speake and therfore according to that three-fold distinction laid down page , , . of this treatise , this law in deut. . may be in force , . according to the substance and equity of it , according as there is a common right in it , * common to other nations with the jew● , and secondly , as it contains a doctrine made known by god for punishing such offences ( though wee christians are not tied to the particular formes of that command according to the mosaicall law or politie , nor as it was given by moses to one people , nor to the utmost vigor and severity of it expressed in every particular ) which being in force under the gospel but in this sense & thus far , fully makes good that which t is brought for the magistrates coercive power under the new testament to punish false prophets , apostates , &c : neither does the abating somewhat of the rigor of the law sutable to the mosaical paedagogie , or the relesiang of the particular forms of that law the kind and manner of punishing , abrogate all punishment and restraint : for we may easily conceive and wee often see it in experience , the rigor and utmost severity of a law in regard of some circumstances abated , and yet not all punishment , neither the substance of it taken away ; and indeed if wee consider what the judiciall law concerning punishing in criminall matters is , as t is laid downe by divers learned men , * beza . zepperus , amesius , viz. that law which doth peculiarly explicate that part of righteousnesse and equitie concerning executing justice and judgement , or the most accurate determination and fit application of the naturall right according to the speciall and singular condition of that people , it must needs follow that though those circumstances which were proper to that speciall estate of the jewes are ceased , as of necessity they must , the state of the jewes being changed , yet the things themselves as abstracted from their relation to the jewish church and state , cannot be abolished , as being naturalis juris , which still doe hold forth to us the best determination of naturall right as amesius speaks , as the changing of the fashion forme and proportion of a mans clothing and apparell cannot alter a mans substance and person , so neither can the forms and manner of the judiciall law by which it was fitted for the jewes condition as a garment is to a mans body , take away the law it selfe ; so that judicias being ●othing else but naturals and morals clothed for a time after such a manner to fit the nature and manners of such a people , that time and people being passed away , the substance , viz. what 's naturall and morall must needs remaine . fifthly , as to those other inferences added by hagiomastix page . , . to the former , that if the obligation of the mosaicall law for putting blasphemers , idolaters , &c to death , was intended by god to continue under the new testament , why was the apostle paul so farre from enjoyning a beleeving brother to detect , or to put to death his idolatrous wife , that hee doth not permit him so much as to put her away from him ? if the law in question was to continue in force under the gospel , then was every person in an idolatrous state and kingdome whilst it remained idolatrous , bound to seeke the death one of another , yea to destroy one another with their own hands . yea the civil magistrate was bound to sentence all his subjects that practised idolatry to death without exception , and to make a bloudy desolation throughout all his dominions : then were beleevers in idolatrous states and kingdomes upon their respective conversions to the christian faith , bound to accuse their neighbours , being idolaters and blasphemers , round about them before the magistrate , especially if hee were a christian , and to require the execution of this law of god upon them to have them put to death . i answer m. goodwins if● & thens proceed either out of the grosse ignorance of the state of the question of toleration , and scope of deut. . or elsefrom a designe to delude and abuse the people with a show of some reason , which though hee knowes in his conscience very well hath no waight at all , yet he thinks will serve to mislead his followers who takes shadowes for men . for whereas the question about punishing men with death , or other severe punishments in cases of idolatry and false doctrine is understood by all divines who write of the controversie , in case of apostasie and defection , meant of those who have once known and received the christian faith , and not of jewes , turks , and pagans ; of magistrates also in their owne jurisdiction and territories , not others ; and when it may bee with the safety , and for the good of a nation and kingdome , & not to the manifest destruction and ruine of a kingdome , as he may find in the writings of many learned men who have writ upon the question calvin , beza , zanchius , bullinger , danaeus , musculus , gerardus , baldwins cases of conscience , zepperus , videlius , voetius , master rutherfurd , &c and is evident by the state of the question laid down in the prolegomena , as also deut. . is understood of apostates who having professed the law are fallen from it , and of persons in the territories and power of the jews , not that they should doe so to all neighbouring nations round about them , as these phrases imply , if there arise among you a prophet , if thy brother , or thy son , or thy daughter , entice thee secretly , saying , le ts go serve other gods. if thou shalt hear say in one of thy cities , which the lord thy god hath given thee to dwell there , saying , certaine men , the children of belial are gone out from among you , and have withdrawn the inhabitants of their city . deu● . . . if there bee found among you within any of thy gates which the lord thy god giveth thee , man or woman that hath wrought wickednesse in the fight of the lord thy god , in transgressing his covenant ; if it be true that such abomination is wrought in israel , then shalt thou bring forth that man or that woman unto thy gates , and stone them with stones till they die : on which place * calvin observes in his handling that question whether it be lawfull for christian judges to punish hereticks , that the punishment of stoning in deut. . was not commanded to be inflicted upon forraine nations , but upon apostates from the jewish religion who had perfidiously fallen from it : by which saith hee is answered that objection made by some , who aske whether jewes , turkes , and the like are by the sword to be forced to the faith of christ ? neither doth god command the sword to be drawn promiscuously against all , but apostates who have wickedly with drawn themselves from the true worship and have endeavoured to draw others to the like defection , he hath subjected to just punishment : yet for all this hagiomastix makes ifs and and 's , brings instances of suppositions in heathens , and of states wholly idolatrous , nothing at all to the question in hand ; for the apostle speaks in corinthians and the seventh chapter , of a heathen and infidell that never received the faith of christ , but being borne and brought up in heathenisme continues so , however one of the married persons , husband or wife was converted to the christian faith , besides that question put by hagiomastix , why was the apostle paul so farre from enjoyning a beleeving brother to detect , or to put to death his infidell or idolatrous wife that he doth not permit him so much as to put her away from him , is absurd and ridiculous , and a man would wonder that such a great champion as * cretensis would be taken for , that dares challenge all presbyterians in england , scotland , and france , assembled and not assembled , and so cryed up and deified by the sectaries in divers * pamphlets , should bring such weak poore stuffe ; for the corinthian state and magistracie being then heathenish , and infidels , ( as the apostle in the chapter going before cor. . . shows , only many particular private persons living in corinth being converted who were not the civill government ) it had been to no end for paul to direct the beleeving husband to complaine to the magistrate of his idolatrous wife , that had been the way for himselfe to have been punished , that had been all one as to have complained to the civill magistrates of themselves ; and certainly the apostle that blamed the beleeving corinthians for going to law one with another before their magistrates who were unbeleevers , though he would not , if they had been christian magistrates , had no reason to stirre up christians to complaine unto unbeleevers in matters of religion and christianity . master goodwin might with as much reason have ask● why the apostle paul did not enjoine the unbeleeving wife or husband to complaine of the beleeving wife and husband , as why hee did not enjoine the beleeving wife to detect her idolatrous husband ; and might as well , nay better ▪ reason it unlawfull for christians to goe to law now under christian iudges , because they might not under heathens , as to argue against christians complaining and detecting of christians that turne apostates , hereticks , idolaters , &c because christians did not complaine in pauls time to heathen magistrates of heathens ; yea this is so unreasonable a question to build an argument upon against an expresse * command of god , and that with a triumph in the close of it , saying certainly this doctrine of the apostle ●olds no tolerable correspondency with the opinion of our severe inquisitors , about the non a brogation of the law for putting idolaters to death , that though i read in ecclesiasticall histories of christians complaining to some heathen emperors favorers of christian religion , of christians when they turned herrticks , as to * aurelianus of paulus samosetenus the heretick , and of * heathens seeking to heathen princes , against priests that were very wicked under the show of religion , being guilty of sacriledge and corrupting the chastity of matrons ; yet i never read of any complaining of and desiring princes to punish heathens of the same religion with themselves ; so that by all this the reader may easily perceive besides the dissimilitude in the instance of cor. . from that of deut. . the one speaking of an heathen idolater , the other of a jewish apostate , there was very great reason why the apostle enjoyned not the beleeving wife to seek to take away the life of her unbeleeving husband ; for in so doing she might have hazarded her owne , but could have done no good to the hindring of his idoll worship : but however paul enjoyns nothing to the beleeving husband and wife about detecting their unbeleeving yoke-fellowes upon the grounds already given , yet i make no question had paul lived in a time wherein the corinthian magistrates had received the faith , he would have given both them and beleeving husbands in their places , injunctions to have demolished idoll temples and their worships , not to suffer blasphemies against christ , but on the contrary to have sent preachers among them , and to countenance and honor those who received the faith ; of which in the practises of constantine , theodosius and other emperors , i might give many instances de inhibitis pagan●rum sacrificiis , and of the shutting up , yea * pulling down the temples of the heathen gods , of their removing from offices and places those who were not christians . there is no question but paul who dehorted so earnestly the beleeving corinthians from going to the idols feasts in the idols temples , and from eating of the sacrifices in their temples , cor. . cor. . would if the state of corinth had been christian have exhorted them to put down the idoll temples , to forbid those idolatrous sacrifices , to suppresse their priests ; as also christian husbands in case their wifes would have gone after idolatrous priests , worshipped images brought to them , they would have desired their magistrates helpe against such seducers and corrupters . and for conclusion of my answer to this fifth head , if i would give liberty to my pen to writefully against every particular passage in the . and . section of hagiomastix , as i have done of some of them , i should make his folly and weaknesse manifest to all , but having hinted already his mistakes , and the utter dissimilitude betweene that command in deut. . and all his instances of an idolatrous state , and a magistrate bound to make a bloudy desolation throughout al his dominions , &c. i say no more but here is a great cry and a little wool , and so come to the fixt head to give answer to something that seems more materiall . sixthly , to that hagiomastix saith page . there is this cleer reason why that old testament law for putting of false prophets , blasphemers and seducers to idolatry to death , should not now bee in force upon any such terms as it was when and where it was given ; because in all difficult cases that happened about maters of religion , the iewes to whom this law was given , had the opportunity of immediate consultation with the mouth of god himselfe , who could and did from time to time , infallibly declare what his own mind and pleasure was in them . so that except those that were to give sentence in cases of religion had been desperately wicked , and set upon bloud and despised that glorious ordinance of the oracle of god amongst them , they could not doe injustice , god being alwayes at hand to declare unto them , what kind of blasphemer and what kind of idolater it was that hee by this law intended should be put to death . whereas now the best oracles that magistrates and iudges have to direct them in doubtfull cases about matters of religion are men of very fallible judgemēts , and every way obnoxious to error and mistake . yea confident i am , that the wisest & most learned of them are not able cleerly or demonstratively to informe the magistrate what blasphemie or what idolatry it was which was by god sentenced to death under the law : therefore the going about to prove that the law for putting blasphemers and seducers to idolatry to death , is now , or amongst us in force , because it was once given to the jewes , is as i should prove that a man may safely without danger walk among bogs praecipices & ditches , at midnight because he may well do it at noon day . i answer in the generall , this section is full of many unsound and dangerous passages , very prejudicial to the perspicuity , perfection and certainty of the scriptures , very derogatorie to the state of the church under the new testament , preferring the old before it for cleernesse and light as much as noon day before midnight ( which is contrary to many prophecies in scripture of the times under the gospell and to divers texts in the new testament cor. . , , , , , . cor. . , . ) and tending to bring in with a high hand , scepticisme and pyrronian uncertainty in all poynts of religion into the church of god , passages becomming a iesuite and an atheist , but altogether unbeseeming a protestant minister and * one who would bee accounted to have laboured more abundantly in vindicating the authority of the scriptures and building men on a rock then all other men : whoever does but compare the iesuits & papists writings , stapleton , bellar. turnebull , fisher , &c with learned whittaker , chamier , rivet , cameron , doctor white , baron , willet and other protestant divines who have written of the authority , perspicuity perfection , &c of the scriptures against the papists , and then look but upon this section , hee must needs say higiomastix writes as one brought up in the schools of the iesuits , and had sucked their breasts ; as also he that reads but minus celsus senenses , and the socinians with the netherland arminians will confesse these lines are the very breathings and actings of that spirit which dwels in that generation of men : i could out of the writings of our orthodox divines written against papists , socinians , arminians , upon those heads of the authority , perfection , perspiculty , certainty of the scriptures and points of christian faith at large confute him , but these belong not properly to this controversie about toleration , and therefore i shall not insist on them : and further i desire the reader to observe what followes , that this cleere reason ( as hag●omastix termes it ) may be resolved in that common evasion of socinians and arm●nians and all our sectaries of infallibility and fallibility : whoever well weigh● that . section of hagiomastix with that part of the . section page . fifth answer , will find the summe and substance of all that discourse to be nothing else but the usuall plea of the patrons of toleration , in their late libertine pamphlets , as bloudy tenet , storming of antichrist , compassionate samaritane , justification of toleration , quaeres upon the ordinance for preventing of heresies , &c. that there is no infallible iudge now , all men are fallible , subject to error or mistake , and therefore the proper place of speaking to this , will be in answering their grounds for toleration and pretended liberty of conscience , where i hope by the grace of god to speak so fully to that particular of infallibility and fallibility , that i doubt not to promise the reader such ample satisfaction to that grand argument , as by the blessing of god all men who have not sold themselves to libertinisme will never againe after that object it : yet however for the present i shall hint these things by way of reply . . this very point of infallibilitie and fallibilitie was the main rise and cause of setting the pope in his chair , of making one that must be an infallible judge in the church , and so is the ground work of the popes authoritie and tyrannie over the church , which all who understand the controversies between the papists and the reformed churches de papa doe well know : and on the other hand t is made the foundation of bringing in all anarchie and libertinisme into the church to overthrow all power of magistrates , and of synods and councels in matters of religion : so that at on the one hand it hath exalted the pope and given him an unjust domination and usurpation , so on the other it casts down the use of all civil and ecclesiasticall power for the good of the church , so that the same thing that set up the pope and made antichrist , sets up a toleration and universall libertie of conscience , which is a new and worse pop● . but as the want of infallibility was no good ground for ●etting up the pope ( as i suppose hagiomast . and all the sectaries will grant ) so will it be found no good argument for a generall toleration of all religions , a farre greater evill then a pope . secondly , i deny that which hagiomastix takes for granted , the reason it self upon which he founds why the old testament law for the putting of false prophets , blasphemers , and seducers to idolatry to death , should not now be in force ; i desire him to prove the vrim and thummim of the lords holy one , the glorious ordinance of the oracle of god among the jewes by which they inquired and consulted immediately and received sentences and answers immediately and infallibly from the mouth of god , to be appointed of god , or ever made use of by the priest upon the desire of the magistrates and elders in cases of resolving doubts whether this or that was blasphemie , idolatry , false prophecying , and thereupon putting to death blasphemers , false prophets , seducers to idolatry : hagiomastix gives no place of scripture at all for proof , and upon serious perusall of all places of this kind both of commands and examples for punishing false prophets , idolaters , &c i doe never find the magistrates were commanded in those cases to enquire by vrim or ever practised it . let deut. . deut. . levit. . . , , . deut. . , , . levit. . . with the examples of asa , josiah and others bee lookt into , and wee shall not finde a word spoken of concering the deciding who were or who were not or killing false prophets , and idolaters upon receiving an answer from god by vrim and thummim , but stil the grounds expressed of proceeding against them are upon the law of god , the nature of the sins , and other reasons of a common nature , and among the signes and marks by which false prophets are to be known , this discovery by the glorious oracle is none of them , but the thing following not , nor comming to passe which was spoken in the name of the lord , their prophecying in baal and causing the people to erre , their strengthening the hands of evill doers that none returns from wickednesse , their saying unto them that despise god , ye shall have peace , and unto every one that walketh after the imagination of his owne heart , no evill shall come upon you , with divers such like as is evident by deut. . . jerem. . . , . and many places out of moses and the prophets . in joshua . when the children of israel heard of the two tribes and a halfe building an altar , they did not before they gathered themselves to goe up to warre , enquire by vrim and thummim whether it was idolatry or not ; and when an answer was given to phinebas and the ten princes that they had not built an altar to turne from following the lord , but only for a witnesse between them and the rest of the tribes , that it might not besaid to their children in time to come , ye have no part in the lord , phinehas the priest , and the princes of the congregation did not consult the oracle spoken of to be resolved in this controversie : thus asas and the peoples entring into covenant to put to death men or women for matters of religion , was not founded on an answer by vrim and thummim , but upon whosoever would not seek the lord god of israel , and for asa's putting down maachah his mother from being queen , because she made an idol in a grove , there is not the least hint expressed of his consultation beforehand with that glorious ordinance of the oracle of god , whether she was such a kind of idolater and her idolatry of such a nature , as she was to be punished with that punishment of being removed from being queen . josiah in all the exercise of his coercive power upon the violators of the first table , king. chapt , . in sacrificing some of them upon altars and burning their bones , in putting down others , &c never enquired by vrim whether those he killed were such kind of idolaters as god by the law intended should be put to death , and whether the others were not such . so the priests , prophets , and people in taking jeremiah and saying he shall surely die , and that he is worthy to die , they pretend not to passe sentence upon enquiring by vri● , but upon his prophecying in the name of the lord , this house shall be like shiloh , and this city shall be desolate without an inhabitant , jerem. . , , . which they judged a prophecying falsly upon mis-underst anding some scriptures , as appears plainly by those words , why hast thou prophecied in the name of the lord , saying , this house shall bee like shiloh , and this city shall be desolate without an inhabitant . for because of gods promise concerning the temple , that he would abide ever there psal . . , they presumed that it could never perish , and accounted all preaching that looked that way , blasphemous , matth. . . acts . . of which see more in the late annotations of our english divines upon the . verse . and jeremiah in his * judicial defence to the * court and councell ( for so it appears it was a court , by verse . , . speaking of certaine elders of the land rising up and speaking to the assembly of the people ) pleading his immediate call from god to prophecie against the citie as his answer against their accusation and in all the contestation and controversie that was between the princes and certaine of the elders and the priests , prophets , and people concerning jeremiah's being worthy to die , neither jeremiah , nor the priests , elders , and people that were for his being put to death , or against it , once offer for deciding this difficult case and doubtfull matter to propound the enquiring by vrim and thummim , but both sides plead the case upon scripture grounds and examples , as hee who reads the chapter may easily see ; and certainly if enquiring by vrim and thummim had been appointed of god , and practised by the church as the oracle to which in all difficult cases about matters of religion the iewes were to repaire , by which to judge whether such things were blasphemie , idolatrie , prophecying falsly , yea or no , and whether the persons were such kind of blasphemers , false prophets , idolaters , as the law intended should be put to death , it is strange that in all this sharpe contest and great controversie about accusing jeremi●h for prophecying falsly and arraigning him upon his life , neither himselfe , nor his enemies , none of the priests , princes , elders , people , nor jeremiah should once move to enquire immediately from the mouth of god by vrim and thummim the infallible resolution of this question whether jeremiah prophecied falsly in the name of the lord , and deserved to dy . and therfore from this and all the premises , yea upon serious searching into all places of scripture that speak of vrim and thummim and of those who enquired of the lord in that way , and comparing them together with the helpe of many judicious and learned interpreters , besides consulting divines who have written of vrim and thummim , i cannot find the least ground that the iews either were commanded , or ever made use of enquiring by vrim to bee satisfied in judiciall proceedings , whether this or that was idolatry , or blasphemie , or this man an idolater , or false prophet , or no , but they proceeded in those things by the law of god given to them , and in difficult cases too hard they were enjoyned to goe to the priests by way of consultation to be informed of the true sense and meaning of gods law ; and the priests , as the great lawyers among the people , practised in the meaning of gods law according to which judgement was to be given , gave them resolutions out of the law , and never in those cases upon consulting by vrim , as many scriptures-show . the resolution of the priests upon enquiring of them in hard matters was to eaccording to the sentence of the law deut. . , , , . ier. . . the law shall not perish from the priest , the meaning is ( though falsly applied against jeremiah ) that the priests keeping to the law are the oracles of truth , and therefore jeremiah is a false prophet , seing they who have authoritie in the church , and understanding of the law contradict him . mal. . . for the priests lip. should keep knowledge , and they should seeke the law at his mouth ; he priests lips keeping knowledge , and seeking the law at hi● mouth , not new immediate revelations from the mouth of god , are here set downe to be looked after . in questions about morall things , sins and duties , the priests are to give answer from the law. as for that ju●gement of vrim spoken of in numb . . . which was by way of oracle , the high priest having vrim and thumim about him giving answers in gods name , which were of infallible truth , and made a supreame determination , that was for the resolution of doubtfull and difficult businesses and enterprises in matters of events and successes of things , for direction and counsell from god what course to take in distresses and such and such cases as about going to warre , &c. for discovery and revelation of hidden and secret causes of judgements ; but never was upon occasion of questions of things forbidden in the morall law , and for determination of who or what was an idolater or idolatry , a false prophet , or prophesying falsely , a blasphemer , or blasphemy ; and if we consult the scriptures where the judgement of vrim is spoken of , w● shall finde as much , which i desire the reader well to observe . all the places i have taken notice of that speak of enquiring of god by vrim are th●se following , exod. . . . numb . . . josh . . . judg. . . and , , and . sam . , , , . . . . , . sam. . . all which speak only of enquiring of god in the cases forementioned , and not in the least of controversies arising upon morall transgressions against the first table , and of what punishments shall be inflicted upon men for them : unto which considering the judgement of divers learned men in their * commentaries upon most of these places of scripture concerning the enquiring by vrim , and * others in their writings going this way , of enquiring in cases of of warre , distresses and for publick persons enquiring not hereby for a common man , but either for the king , or for him on whom the affaires of the congregation lay , but not giving any one instance in matters of idolatrie , blasphemy , prophecying falsly , or any other corruption in religion , i confesse i am much confirmed that the judgement of vrim was not appointed for that use to resolve what violations of religion were , and what were not punishable by death . now that the judgement of vrim was of any such use to enquire of god by the priest in points of idolatrie , blasphemie , &c i see not the leastcolor for it , unlesse in these places of scripture deut. . , , . ( which place is urged by hagiom . p. . the sentence of the priest against which hee that should doe presumptuously in not hearkening to it was to be put to death , was only such a sentence , with the priest did upon inquirie by vrim and thummim receive immediately from the mouth of god himselfe ) deut. . . deut. . , , . and in those examples of him that blasphemed the name of the lord , being put in ward that the mind of the lord might be showed ●h●m levit. . . . and of him that gathered sticks , put i●ward till the lord should declare what shall be done to him . but for answer , in none of these places or examples is there any thing spoken , of consulting by vrim ; for the first place , only urged by master goodwin , to say nothing that these verses are quite another thing from that command in the beginning of the chapter about putting to death for serving other gods , and worshipping the sun and moon , there being in that case not a word tending that way ( which yet is the point in question ) of going to the priest and enquiring of him , and upon this judgement putting to death , besides this command being of things of another nature as ●erse showes , here is no direction in this place to enquire by vrim , but the matters here spokenof being difficult , councell is given to goe to the priests skilled in the meaning of the law , and in answering of doubts arising , to be informed by them of the meaning of the law , many passages in those verses show as much ( and whereas in the case of enquiring by vrim in all places ) expressions are used of enquiring of the lord , the lords answering and such like , here still all is put upon the priest or iudge , and upon the sentence and judgement that they shall show , and they shall tell ; and that this place cannot be meant of the judgement of vrim t is evident thus , because that vrim and thummim belonged only to the priesthood deut , . . and particularly to the high priest numb . . . exod. . . now he who would have god to bee inquired of concerning some great businesse , did come to the priest and the priest putting on the ephod to which the breast plate of vrim and thummim was fastned verse . stood before the arke of god , and so god gave answers which were of infallible truth , ( of which , with a more particular relation of the manner of inquiry , and the way of answer by vrim and thummim , the reader may see more in ainsworth annotat. on exod. . . and numb . . . diodate annotat. on exod. . , . numb . . . sam . , , . the annotations of our english divines on exod. . . . sam. . . * peter martyrs common places and weems christian synagogue ) but never was the judgement of vrim by a iudge and magistrate who was a person distinct from the priest : now t is evident deut. . . . that the priest and the iudge are * distinct and divers persons there , and the man that will not hearken unto the iudge , even that man shall die , as well as hee that will not hearken unto the priest , which fully showes that what hagiomastix writes page . . and . of death inflicted only upon such who would not hearken to the priest enquiring by vrim , to be an untruth . secondly the sense and meaning of this place from vers . * . to the . is that inferior courts and assemblies in cases too hard and difficult for them , are commanded to goe higher to some superior court and assembly , as those words cleerly show , thou shalt arise , and get thee up into the place which the lord thy god shall chuse . this place afterwards was jerusalem as t is said psal . . . there were set thrones of judgement , and in ierusalem did iehoshaphat set of the levites and of the priests , and the chiefe of the fathers of israel , for the judgement of the lord and for controversies , chron. . . . . ainsworth upon the place writes , that by the iudge that shall be in those dayes , is understood the high councell and senate of iudges which were of the cheif of the fathers of israel , as they who are called priests verse . are called verse . priest , so many iudges are called iudge ; only as among the priests one was cheife , so among the iudges one was prince . chron. . . the hebrew records say , when any doubt a●ose in any case to any one of israel , hee asked of the judgement h●ll that was in his citie ; if they knew they told it him : if not , then hee that enquired , together with the synedrion or with the messengers thereof went up to jerusalem , and inquired of the synedrion that was in the mountaine of the temple ; if they knew they told it them ; if not , then they all come to the synedrion that was at the door of the court yard of the temple : if the● knew they told it them ; and if not , they all came to the chamber of hewen stone to the great synedrion and enquired ; * and interpreters generally understand these verses of iudicatures and courts in israel , and of the lower courts going to the highest the great and high synedrion : now i find no command no● example recorded in scripture of any of the iewish courts ecclesiast . or civil enquiring by vrim of morall transgressions of what sort they were , and what punishments the committers of such sins should have , but still they determined according to the law and iudgements . ezek. . . i never read of the high synedrion either in scripture or any other writers of it , that they were wont to give their answer by vrim and thummim . if we observe those instances in scripture of enquiring by vrim , wee shall see they are inquiries made of particular persons , by the priest , not by a court , and of the high priest not as sitting in court , nor as alwayes at ierusalem , nor of criminall cases , but of going in and out to warre and such like , and whoever doth but consult with the annotations of ainsworth , diodate , and luther english divines , the commentaries of lyra , piscator , and others on this place , will confesse t is quite another thing is here spoken of then the judgement of vrim . . amesius in his cases of conscience in his answer to that question , whether that law , deut. . . of putting him to death who would not hearken to the iudge and the priest was just , resolves it was , and faith the equity of that law will easily appeare ; and among other reasons gives this because that * place speaks of disobedience in those things which out of the law of god are cleerly and manifestly determined . verse . so that wee see ames judgement in the resolution of that case , is , that the answer of the iudge , or priest was made out of the law of god , and not by vrim , and it seems that learned men never dreamt of any such thing in this deut. . for among all his reasons he mentions no such thing ; and certainly if that were the meaning of the place which hagiomastix puts upon it , that had been such a strong reason for the equity of putting those to death who would not hearken to the priest , giving them councell immediately and infallibly from god as that dr. ames could not have omitted it : for if mr. goodwin who is so kind and charitable to all atheists , antiscripturists , blasphemers , idolaters , &c in his queries upon the printed paper entituled an ordinance against heresies , and his hagiomastix , as that he would have no coercive power made use of against them , doth yet grant there was an equity in that law , that sentence of death should passe on such that would not hearken to the priest speaking immediately and infallibly from god , and * saith that for his part if the inquisitors now can give any satisfying account of any sentence awarded against blasphemers , hereticks that comes by infallible revelation from god , hee shall thinke it equall and meet that hee that shall doe presumptuously and not hearken unto it should be put to death , then * dr. ames who was fully for the magistrates coercive power in matters of religion , and for putting blasphemous hereticks to death , could not have forgotten this reason . fourthly , on deut. . , , , , . is founded by the judgement of many great divines , that which is called the councell , the great sanhedrin at jerusalem , the seventy : spanhemius in his third part * dubiorum evangelicorum page . . showes , that by the command of the law this very place deut. . , . to this supreame tribunall of the synedrion were referred all things whatsoever that could not be determined of the inferior courts , or were doubtfull , and had tried the severall judgements of the inferior judges . gersom bucerus in his dissertat . de gubernat . ecclesiae page . quotes this deut. . . . for the generall convention at ierusalem to which the hardest things were brought , which could not be determined in the lower judicatories . walaeus in his tractate de discrimine muneris politici & ecclesiastici brings this place to prove the synedrion or colledge at ierusalem , that if among the iudges or priests in the lesser cities and townes there fell out some things of greater moment ; or if any one would not rest in their sentence , the cause was devolved to higher iudges , who after davids time had their synedrion at ierusalem as the cheife metrapolis of iud●● . mr : gillespie in his aarons rod blossoming . book . chapt . write● thus . t is agreed upon both by iewish and christian expositors , that this place holds forth a supream civill court of iudges , and the authority of the civill sanhedrim is mainly grounded on this very text . and as the high civil synedria is founded here , so many divines show a supream ecclesiast . sanhedrim , distinct from the civill , is held forth in this very place , to which the people of god weere bound as to the supream ecclesiasticall court to bring all the difficult ecclesiasticall causes , which could not be determined in the lower assemblies , in which court they were determined without any other appeale , of which the reader may find more in walaeus , gerson bucerus , apollonii , jus magistratus circa sacra , first part , page . and second part second chapter , page . and aboue all others in mr. gillespie his aarons rod blossoming book . chapt . . who at large handles this point , that the iewes had an ecclesiasticall sanhedrin distinct from the civill , and among other grounds from this of deut. . , , , , . but none of these learned men not any ( but papists ) that ever i met with , give the least hint of any judgement by vrim to bee meant in this place , neither do i find in all the authors that i have read concerning the way of passing sentence in the highest synedrion at jerusalem , and determining the difficulties about the law brought to them , whether the ecclesiasticall of which the high priest was president , or the civill , that ever for the satisfaction of the parties , and giving the true sense of the law thus controverted , and so putting an end to all controversies , they were wont in that court to enquire by vrim ; nay there are severall things written in the scriptures , and by learned men who write of the customes of the iewes and proceedings in that court , which show the contrary , as those words imply as much deut. . the priest and the iudge that shall be in those dayes : from whence the hebrews gather , that if the high synedrion had judged and determined of a matter , as seemed right in their eyes , and after them another synedrion rose up , which upon reasons seeming good unto them , disannulled the former sentence , then it was disanulled , and judgement passed according as it seemed good unto these latter ; thou art not bound to walke save after the synedrion , that are in thy generation . now if it were a sentence by vrim immediate and infallible from god , no following synedrion might have disannull'd it . so those words according to the sentence which they shall teach thee , showes the sentence was to be according to the law , the word written , and not by a voice from heaven ; as also that instance of ierem. being condemned to die by the supreme court at ierusal . the court of the priests doing their part judging him a false prophet and worthy to die , the court of the princes acquitting him as a true prophe● , of which see more in aarons rod blossom . p. . . both of them going upon scripture grounds , as i have shown , p. . but in this great controversie , never appealing to the judgement of vrim ; and so in their way of trying false prophets , they went not by the priests putting on the ephod to enquire of the lord , but therein , all ( say the iewes ) was this if he had threatned a judgement to come , although it came not , yet hee was not a false prophet for that : god ( say they ) is gracious , as hee was to the ninivites , and to hezekiah . but if hee promised a good thing , and it came not to passe , then hee was a lyar . for every good thing which god promiseth , he performeth , so ieremiah tried ananias to be a false prophet , because hee promised a good thing to zedekiah , and it came not to passe . fifthly , the current of the scripture both in the law and prophets still speaks of going to the law and according to that , making that the last resolution of practise and controversies in all morall things , both of duties and sins , and that for private and publick persons , esaiah . . to the law , and to the testimony : if they speake not according to this word , it is because there is no light in them , deut. . . . . . . the iewes must hearken to the commandement written in the book of the law , t is not hidden neither is it farre of , t is not darke that it cannot be attained to , it is not in heaven , that it should be said , who shall goe up for us to heaven , and bring it unto us , that wee may heare it and doe it ? but the worde is very nigh , &c deut. . . v. the law of god is to bee for the direction of the king and of the priests , and levites . the book of the law of the lord given by moses cron. . , , , . compared with kings chapter . , . v. chapter . , . was that by which josiah made his reformation both in the removing of persons and things , not once enquiring by vrim whether he should slay idolatrous priests , put downe others , keep such a solemne passeover , &c and t is observable that the king commanded hilkiah the high priest and shaphan the scribe , &c to goe and enquire of the lord for him and for the people concerning the words of this book , what * judgement hanged over their heads and when it was like to fall , and whether there were any means , or whether it was not too late to appease his wrath , and accordingly they went unto huldah the prophetesse , yet he commanded not hilkiah to enquire by vrim , neither did hilkiah the high priest put on the ephod , but went to the prophetesse ; which is to me a great argument , that the judgement of vrim was only in some particular set cases , as going in and out to war , and such like , but not for inquiry in cases of the law , what reformation to be made , or what transgressions of the law to bee punished by death . as for those other two places deut. . , . , and . i shall not spend many lines in clearing them , as being not brought to prove the glorious ordinance of the oracle , least i should be charged by hagiomastix to show my valour in fighting with men of clouts of my owne setting up ; for the first , t is understood of a single witnesse accusing one for seducing to apostasie and revolt , so junius reads it ad testificandum in ●um apostasiam , and ainsworth to testifie revolt against him , not civill wrong , as the english translation seems to carry it , and the meaning is this * although in all other causes two witnesses atleast are required by the law , yet in the businesse of religion one witnesse is sufficient to make a questiō of the partie ; by which god shows be would have the preservation of doctrine commended to the magistrate , for this is an appendix of that law which is spoken of deut. . . so iunius , diodate also on the place writes thus , in case of a secret seducement from gods true service ; he that had been sollicited , though hee were alone , ought to detect the seducer . deut. . . . and the judges ought to proceed therein , as upon an advice and denunciation ; not as upon a formall accusation which had required two witnesses . and if the calumny was made to appeare unto them they were to observe this law , if it were truth , that of deut. . . so then this place holds forth no more then what deut. . , . does , which hath nothing to doe with the judgement of v●im , as i have already showen at large ; and yet if this place had any thing in it more for enquiring by vrim then the former , it could doe hagiomastix no good , nor is to the point at all brought by him , because this enquiring by vrim is not to know from the lord what kind of idolatrie and idolater this is , whether that for which death is to bee inflicted , but whether this be a false or a true witnesse , as the words cleerly show ; the question is not about matter of law , whether such a thing be idolatrie , or not , what kind of idolatry , but of matter of fact , whether the partie did commit such a thing or no , of which he is accused . and the iudges shall make diligent inquisition : and behold if the witnesse be a false witnesse and testifieth falsly against his brother : then shall ye doe unto him , as he had thought to have done to his brother : so shalt thou put the evill away from amongst you . as for that place deut. . . the coherence and scope of the place showes it cannot be meant of the judgement by vrim , but those verses from the second to the tenth , containe a direction from god , of what course is to bee taken for the expiation of an unknowne murther , and among other things that are to bee done for the putting away the guilt of innocent bloud from the land , as the elders and judges must doe according to the verse . , . so the * fifth verse showes what the priests are to do for the freeing the people of israel from innocent bloud being laid to their charge , namely in the audience of the people to pray for atonement and expiation , that prayer in verse . the elders were to wash their hands and say ; our hands have not shed this bloud , and the priests said , be mercifull o lord , and lay not innocent bloud unto thy people israels charge , and if any thing else were to be decided about that businesse , by the words of the priests , as expounders of gods law , it should be determined ; not that they had any absolute or arbitrary power of themselves , but by their word , meaning the word of god which they should show , as deut. . . the subject matter of this scripture , is not to enquire of the preists whether this were a casuall or a wilfull murther , and for them to tell who were the murtherers that had slaine this man ( the resolution of which questions by the priests might indeed imply some colour for the priests by enquiring by vrim ) these things are not once named , but all the matter is , what 's to be done to expiate the bloud of a man slain in the land , it being not knowne who hath slaine him ; that 's supposed , and is the case upon which all the direction both for elders , priests and people is built . lastly as to those examples in levit , . , , . and that of numb . . , , , of the blasphemer and sabbath-breaker put into ward that moses might receive an answer immediately from god what to doe with them , & accordingly the lord spake unto moses that they should be stoned , i answer , first , the * law concerning blasphemie was not yet given publickly to the jews , the mind of god declared what should be done to them that blasphemed the name of the lord , & therfore no wonder the blasphemer was put in ward , that the lord might be consulted with , what kind of punishment should bee inflicted upon him ; by the light of nature and the law of the decalogue , the people of the jewes knew hee was to bee punished for it , though the particular kinde and forme was not yet made known by god ; and therefore bring him to the supreame magistrate moses , and make him fast , till the mind of god for the particular kind of punishment should be made known , upon which * occasion god doth not only declare what shall be done to that particular man , but gives them a law concerning all blasphemers in the . verse , taking an occasion from this as hee did from other transgressions committed , and his peoples ill manners , to publish judiciall lawes , the appendixes of the morall law in matters of justice and judgement : but though god was immediately consulted with before there was a law ( for that is the case here ) of which there was all the reason in the world , how doth it follow that after an expresse law is given , and ordinary means and wayes appoynted by god , for the full knowing and executing of that law , now persons must immediately upon all occasions have immediate answers from god whether and how they may punish upon that law ? and indeed to what end were expresse laws written & made known , and knowing able men in those laws deputed by god to judge according to them , if immediate and infallible answers were to be sought from god upon all occasions , and persons not to be judged by those lawes ? and for the sabbath breaker in numb . , however the * law had said the breaker of the sabbath should die exod. . . yet it was not declared by what kind of death hee should die , as ainsworth , diodate , and our english divines in their annotations upon the place observe , saying , though there were a law to put to death a sabbath breaker , yet it was not declared what manner of death hee should die ; and of that the question being proposed , the answer is made by declaring the kind of death he must suffer which is set down in the next ver . solo. jarchi saith it was not declared what manner of death the sabbath breaker should die ; but they knew he that prophaned the sabbath was to die : now the israelites were to receive directions from god , as well for the manner and kind of their lawes and punishments as for the punishments themselves , and some of them being not declared , no wonder that moses stayed till hee enquired of god ; but what 's all this to make good hagiomastix● assertion that because moses who was to receive lawes from god both for matter and forme for that people , did wait upon god by speciall immediate inquiring in cases of some transgressions that accordingly all things might bee done , therefore after god had given all lawes both for matter and forme in cases of idolatry , blasphemie , prophecying falsly , as in deut. . deut. . . levit. . . the judges and magistrates following must doe so too . secondly , in both these instances alleadged , the men were put into ward , not to enquire of god , concerning their sins committed whether they were blasphemie , and sabbath-breaking , there was no question in that kind , both the people and moses were satisfied in that , as appeares by the stories and by putting them in ward , but only in what manner they should be proceeded against , god not having before declared his mind particularly in those cases , so that these instances helpe hagiomastix nothing at all , as not speaking to the matter in hand : for whereas hagiomastix makes this ground of the iews putting to death blasphemers , idolaters , their enquiring and gods declaring by vrim what kind of blasphemer , and so what kind of idolater particularly it was , that be by his law intended should be put to death , moses and the people neither inquired any such thing , what kind of blasphemie it was , nor did god speake to moses in that kind ; but , bring forth him that hath cursed in the campe , and let all that heard him lay their hands on his head , and let all the congregation stone him . thirdly , the declaration of the mind of the lord in these two examples , was no answer by vrim ; for besides that there is no mention in the text of the high priest being spoken to put on the ephod to enquire by vrim , neither doe any interpreters , understand it so , both the texts are against it in those words , and the lord spake unto moses , saying , bring forth him that hath cursed ; and the lord said unto moses , the man shall surely bee put to death , the declaration of gods mind being to moses immediately ; whereas in the judgement of vrim , it was to the priest immediately , so that these answers of god were the answers of a law-giver , giving lawes and penalties by the hand of moses , but not any new interpretations and declarations of the meaning of the law upon controversies and doubts arising ; and besides gods way of answering moses , and answering by vrim were different things , as the rabbins and other learned men who write of those things show , gods answering moses and giving him lawes and commandements being by voice , but answering by vrim being in an other way by beholding the breast-plate , and seeing therein by the vision or inspiration , as these scriptures exod. . . numb . . . exod. . . with ainsworths annotations expresse . as for the immediatenesse of these answers from god to moses , though not by the judgement of vrim , there were speciall reasons thereof , god in an immediate way , communicating to moses all his laws morall and judiciall exod. . . and moses being such a prophet whom the lord knew face to face , and such an extraordinary man in severall respects as there was none like unto him . numb . . , , . exod. . . deut. . , . but for the magistrates and iudges that came after moses , to whom the morall law and the appendix of it the judiciall law was given and delivered , they were to proceed according to the written law , and there were in hard matters higher courts , consisting of a greater number & more able to go to to determine what the lower could not ; & then the highest of all the synedrion at jerusalem who were in all their judgements aboue morall transgressions , to goe according to the law of moses , as many scriptures testifie deut. . . &c but no such grounds after the whole law , morall , ceremoniall and judiciall , was published , of immediatenesse of answers from god to any of their courts , no not to the high synedrion as to moses who was to receive all for the first constituting of their policie , according unto which all courts and iudicatures higher and lower were bound to goe . fourthly , in these great and weighty cases of the blasphemer and sabbath-breaker , moses did not presently passe sentence , but made delayes , put them in prison , till he knew the mind of the lord , and as for other reasons before alledged , so for these following , to teach iudges in matters of great weight of life and death not to be too sudden and hastie , in causes that are very hard to aske councell and to use all means to be well satisfied before they doe any thing . in ainsworths annotations upon numb . . . the reader may find the chaldee paraphrazing thus ; this judgement was one of the foure judgements that came before moses the prophet , which he judged according to the word of god : some of them were judgements of lesser moment and some of them judgements of life and death . in the judgements of lesser moment ( of pecuniary matters ) moses was readie ; but in judgements of life and death bee made delayes . and both in the one and in the other , moses said , i have not heard , [ viz what god would have done ] for to teach the heads ( or cheife ) of the syn●drions ( or assises ) that should rise up after him , that they should bee ready to dispatch inferior causes ( or money matters ) but not hasty in matters of life and death . and that they should not be ashamed to inquire , in causes that are too hard for them ; seeing moses who was the master of israel , had need to say i have not heard , therefore hee imprisoned him , because as yet it was not declared what sentence should passe upon him . babington in his comfort : notes on levit. . writes , moses although such a man , yet will doe nothing hastily in judgement , and especially touching life , but he will be advised by god , who then spake from betwixt the cherubims exod. . and numb . . but it followes not because iudges and courts of iustice were to learne to be cautious and carefull in matters of religion for what they punish especially with death , that therefore they may punish no violations in religion , though expresly and directly against the word of god , unlesse god doe immediately from heaven declare them blasphemies , &c , and such kind of blasphemies , which the law intends death to : and for a conclusion of my answer to this evasion of master goodwin of the judgement by vrim in the cases of blasphemie , idolatry , prophecying falsly , the cleare reason why then they were punished with death but may not be so now that being ceased under the new testament : i shall say no more but this , i challeng him among al the examples recorded in scripture of punishing men with death , imprisonment or banishment , &c for blasphemie , idolatrie , prophecying falsly , prophaning of the sabbath , marrying idolatrous wives and other transgressions of gods worship , to produce any one instance that by the iudges , or by the high sanhedrin god was enquired by vrim , whether such and such facts were blasphemie , idolatrie , &c , and of that kind and nature intended by the law as punishable with death , or among all classicall authors , rabbins and others who have written of the customes of the iewes , of vrim and thummim , of the sanhedrin at ierusalem , to cite me out of them any passages that affirme the iudges , or the high councel of seventie at ierusalem , or the high priest for them were wont in cases of apostasie , blasphemie , &c. to enquire by vrim , and to passe sentence upon persons according to that answer , and not according to the law ; which if he cannot doe as i am confident upon serious search , he cannot , then the reader may easily see what poor shifts this great champion of the sectaries is put unto , to uphold his damned cursed cause of toleration of all religions , and to elude the commands of god fore-named for punishing blasphemers , apostates , idolaters and false prophets . now among all who have written of the high priest , and of deut. . , . i find only some papists going hagiomastixs way , as tostatus , lorinus , who from all places of scripture of the high priest drawing matter to the pope for establishing his authoritie , doe from this place also that they may establish his authoritie above the scriptures , and appeals to him in cases of controversie as the sole infallible judge , speake of the high priest in matters of morall transgressions giving answers by vrim , and not by the sentence of the law. so lorinus upon the . verse according to the sentence of the law which they shall teach thee , saith , that by the name of the law in this place is neither necessarily understood the mosaicall law , nor the holy scripture , but the sentence it selfe of the judge as the pronoun● infinuates : the hereticks would have it to bee a conditionall command of hear●●ning to the priests according to the law , that they might take away the authoritie of traditions , and appeale to the scripture alone . * luther long since writing upon this place observed as much of the papists , and the papists with a great deale of endeavour have drawn this place to their idol , that they might set up the papacie : so that by this it seems the papists and sectaries are agreed upon the same mediums to set up the pope , and his infallibilitie , and a toleration and dispensation to beleeve and professe whatsoever men please . thirdly , this cleere reason of master goodwin in his . section of hagiomastix against the old testament law being now in force for putting of false prophets , blasphemers and seducers to idolatris to death , upon which hee vapours and triumphs so exceedingly over the * anti quaerists , certaine striplings of the assembly ( as hee by way of scorne terms them ) is so farre from fighting against the magistrates punishing ( even by virtue of that old law ) for matters of religion , where hee is sure and certaine the things hee punishes for , are apostasies , idolatries , heresies , blasphemies and that hee is not mistaken , as that in all such cases of certaintie and infallibility , it establishes the magistrates coercive power in matters of the first table , and is indeed a strong reason for it : for if that were the formall cause and reason why magistrates might then punish idolatrie , false prophecying , &c. because they might infallibly know , such a thing was idolatrie , &c. and so bee out of danger of fighting against god , then what things may bee as certainly known under the gospel to bee idolatrie , false prophecying , apostasie , &c , the magistrate may as well restraine : i shall not need to prove the consequence , because , besides its own evidence that it necessarily follows , master goodwin in expresse terms grant and confesses page . that for his part hee shall thinke it equall nd meet , hee that shall doe presumptuously , and not hearken unto what is by infallible revelation from god should be put to death , and the only ground brought by him in this . section of denying this power to magistrates now , is their uncertaintie in matters of religion , the best oracles that magistrates and iudges have to direct them in doubtfull cases about matters of religion being men of very fallible judgements , and every way obnoxious unto error and mistake , and therefore to goe about to prove that the old law is now in force , because it was once given to the iewes , is as if one should prove that a man may safely and without danger walke among bogges and praecipices at midnight , because he may well do it at noone day . so that by hagiomastixs owne confession , what 's certainly and infallibly known to be error , idolatrie , blasphemie , heresie , may and ought to be punished by the magistrate under the new testament , which is indeed a yeelding the question that magistrates may punish under the gospell in matters of religion , for that 's not the question what is truth and what is error , what is heresie , and what is idolatrie , and whether any thing can bee known certainly under the gospell to be truth or no ? and how the magistrates come to know it , and who shall tell them which is truth , that is quite another question , but the question in hand about toleration and the magistrates coercive power in points of religion , is , supposing and granting there are many things certaine in religion , which he certainly knows and beleeves , whether then the magistrate may punish ? which upon this very question , whether princes have full power to command for truth , was well observed * by bishop bilson long since in his answer to a jesuite , making this objection , yea , but who shall tell magistrates which is truth ? that is not this question : when wee reason whether princes may command for truth , and punish error , you must not cavill about the meanes to know truth from error , but suppose that truth were confessed and agreed on , and in that case what may princes doe for truth . if i should aske you whether princes may revenge murthers and punish thefts , were this an answer to say , but how shall they know what murther is , and who be theeves ? no more when we demand what duty princes owe to god and his truth , should you stand quarrelling what truth is or how truth may be known ? the princes dutie to god is one question which wee now handle ; the way to discerne truth from error is another , which anon shall ensue when once this is ended ; but first let us have your direct answer whether princes may command for truth or no ? and then the iesuite answering , for truth they may : but if they take quid pro quo they both hazard themselves and their whole realms , bilson replies , you slide to the second question again before the first be finished , stay for that till this be tried . now then to bring this point to ahead and issue , hagiomastixs clear reason grants that in cases about matters of religion sure and certaine , the magistrate may punish in the times of the gospel , which directly overthrowes that universall toleration so much pleaded for in divers of his books : so that master goodwin by his own cleer reason is forced upon this dilemma , either to hold no points in matters of religion and doctrine of faith can be certainly and infallibly known under the gospel , or if they can , then the violations of such may by the magistrate be lawfully censured . and here in this matter i doe appeale from master goodwins wanton wit , great applause among his seduced members , and from all others his ingagements to the sectarian partie , to his conscience ( if so bee in this point of pretended libertie of conscience , he hath any conscience at all left ) to resolve me this question , whether christian magistrates under the gospell may not by the scriptures and other meanes that god hath given and appointed in his church infallibly and certainly know that there is a god , that this god is but one , that the scriptures are the word and mind of this god , that this god is holy , just , good , wise , eternall , omniscient , omnipotent , mercifull , perfect , that this one god though but one in essence , is three in persons the father , the sonne , and the holy ghost , that the son was manifested in the flesh became man , that he died for our sinnes according to the scriptures , that hee rose again from the dead , ascended into heaven , sitteth at the right hand of god , shall come to judge the world , that there is a hell and eternall death for all wicked impen●tent persons , and a heaven , and eternall life for the elect and true beleevers , that for a christian to worship and serve the sun , moon , and starres , or foure-footed beasts and creeping things is apostasie and idolatrie , that to revile , scoffe at and speak reproachfully of god is to blaspheme god , that for a man to say god revealed to him the day of judgement should bee on such a day , or such and such things should come to passe at such a time , when the contrary is manifested to all , be not to prophecy falsly , and so i might instance in many more : unto which question , if master goodwin answers affirmatively that magistrates may in these and some other points of religion infalliblity and certainly know the truth , then the universall toleration pleaded for by him in m. s. some modest and humble quaeries concerning a printed paper entituled an ordinance for the preventing of the growing and , spreading of heresies , &c hagiomastix , appendix 〈◊〉 hagiomastix and other his pamphlets falls to the ground , and the ordinance presented to the honorable house of commons for preventing heresies and blasphemies , may take place , and the inflicters of heavy censures upon such who broach doctrines contrary to these , viz. that there is a god , that he is perfectly holy , ●ternal , that hee is one in three persons , &c may infallibly know such opinions are not the sacred truths of god and the c●eer reason of hagiomastix in this . section against the old testament law for putting false prophets , &c to death now , is of no force at all ; for in these principles of religion named , and divers others , as the resurrection of the dead , that christ is god , that christ according to his humane nature was borne without sin , &c christian magistrates walke no more at midnight , but at noon day , then the iewish magistrates in cases of blasphemie , apostasie , idolatrie , prophecying falsly , &c. are as certaine and sure as they who received answers under the old law in matters of religion of idolatrie , blasphemie ( supposing there had been any such ) from the priests by the judgement of vrim ; but now if master goodwin dare answer negatively , that there is no infallible certaine knowledge in any point of religion under the new testament , no man infallibly and certainly knowes that there is a god , or that this god is holy , perfect , eternall , that there is a iesus christ who died for our sins and rose againe from the dead , that there is a resurrection of mens bodies , and a day of judgement , &c , t is all opinion and probabilitie , the * contrary may be the sacred truths of god , and therefore there may be no punishing by death or other bodily punishment for holding any doctrines or opinions in religion , suppose contrary to admonition , which for ought the said inflicters know , except they make themselves infallible , may be the sacred truths of god , i say , and am ready to prove it against him , that he overthrowes the scriptures , all christian religion , all faith , yea all the comfort and salvation of christians , hee is a sceptick , an antiscripturist , a newtrall in religion and an atheist : hee justifies the worst of the papists in all they have written against the scriptures , calling it a nose of wax , a dumb judge , inkie divinity , &c. for to hold nothing can bee known certainly and infallibly by the scriptures , is to make them a nose of wax , an imperfect weak rule , a doubtfull oracle , like that of apollo's ; for if the trumpet give an uncertaine sound , who shall prepare himselfe to the battell ? so likewise , except the spirit of god have by the holy pen-men uttered words that may bee understood , how shall it be known what is written ? for this would make the scriptures be as a speaking into the aire ; but as concerning that point of the church under the new testament knowing infallibly and certainly the christian religion , and matters necessary to salvation both in faith and worship , as the church under the old by vrim , i shal speak fully to it in the seventh answer to this reason ; only for a conclusion of this third answer , i adde , i much wonder seeing under the new testament according to hagiomastix doctrine , no magistrates nor synods can be certaine in doubtfull cases about matters of religion , but the best oracles magistrates have to consult with , are every way obnoxious unto error and mistake , and that the wisest and most learned of them are not able cleerly or demonstratively to informe the magistrate what blasphemy , or what idolatry it was which was by god sentenced to death under the law ( though by the way i must check master goodwins confidence , for i who am the least of all the ministers of christ and not to be named with the wisest and most learned of them , am able cleerly and demonstratively out of deut. . . . . . to informe the magistrate and master goodwin too , if he will bee informed , what idolatrie it was which was by god sentenced to death under the law , viz for a iew to goe serve and worship the sun or moon ) how master goodwin and divers members of his church come to be in many controverted points , doubtfull cases about matters of religion , so confident and certaine as they make themselves , certain that presbyteriall government is not jure divino , certaine that christian magistrates may not exercise their coercive power in any matters of religion , no , not to the restraining of blasphemie , idolatrie , heresie , scisme , most certaine that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 credere faith in a proper sense is imputed to justification , and not christs righteousnesse , certaine that the way of the congregation is the truth , and so i might instance in divers other points : to be confident , as confidence it selfe can make a man , to bee as sure as twice two makes four , to have abundant satisfaction from god for what a man holds in pregnant , strong , cleer and rational demonstrations on the one hand , and distinct clear and home answers to all objections to the contrarie on the other hand , that if light be light , reason reason , sense sence , scriptures scriptures , then such a doctrine is truth , that though the whole world should rise up as one man to oppose , yet that should not shake nor unsettle a man in it , is to attaine to a high measure of certaintie and infallib●litie ; now whoever hath but read with due consideration mr. goodwins writings cannot but take notice in them of many high strains and professed solemne * declarations of his absolute certaintie , and full demonstrative knowledge of many points of religion , yea of some more doubtfull controverted , as of church-governement and the way of the congregation , and yet i suppose hee hath no better oracles to consult with , then christian magistrates have ; there is no priest with vrim for him to enquire by , unlesse the sectaries have set him up as their oracle to consult with in stead of the scriptures ; and i think he will not yet plead revelations and visions for feare of his fate , who said it was revealed to him the day of judgement should be on such a day in aprill last , now long since past . fourthly , upon the same cleer reason and ground why the old testament law for punishing false prophets &c , should not now be in force , because the iewes in all difficult cases about religion might have immediate and infallible answers from god , it followes necessarily that all scriptures brought out of the new testament for magistrates punishing in cases of heresie , idolatrie , blasphemie , or for church-officers censuring by deposition , excommunication in points of error , should not bind now , and so whatever is brought out of the scriptures for punishing errors , and heresies , whether by civill punishments or eccle●iasticall censures shall be all evaded , for the same thing may be said , and is said against the places of the new testament , that in the time when the gospels , acts of the apostles , and epistles were written , the churches had apostles and prophets who were immediately inspired and infallible , and could in all difficult cases that happened about matters of religion declare infallibly from god , what was heresie and scisme , and what was not ; and therefore a heretick after the first and second admonition might be rejected , and hymeneus and alexander delivered unto satan , and iezabel for seducing censured , because christ was alwayes at hand by apostles or prophets to declare unto them infallibly who were hereticks and seducers , whereas now since the apostles and prophets are ceased , and all extraordinary wayes , the best oracles ministers and people have to direct them in doubtfull cases about matters of religion , are men of very fallible judgements , and every way obnoxious unto error and mistake , the best synods and councels being not infallible . and so whatsoever hagiomastix speakes of the old law , another may say the same of the new , as to this effect ; i am confident that the wisest and most learned of the ministers are not able cleerly or demonstratively to informe the magistrate what heresie or what scisme it was , or what kind of holding the resurrection past already it was for which the apostles censured hymeneus , and commanded to reject & avoid hereticks and scismaticks ; and therefore to goe about to prove those commands in the new testament against false prophets , hereticks , scismaticks , troublers of the church , to be in our dayes in force , because they were given in the apostles dayes and practised by them , is as if one should prove that a man may safely and without danger walke among bogs , precipices and ditches at midnight , because he may well doe it at noon day . the socinians upon this very ground plead against excommunication , and al church censures in matters of doctrine , now however in use in the primitive churches , and answer to the commands and examples alledged out of the new testament after this manner , * for ther 's much difference between hereticks now , and those hereticks in the apostles dayes . for grant them who now erre in matters of faith , were set before that venerable companie of apostles and their equals ; suppose them to be admonished and convinced ; and yet neverthelesse to persist obstinately though but in a light error , who would not detest their malice ? in this case a light error is turned into the nature of a great wickednesse ; wherefore you will say ? because they dare to resist the spirit speaking by the apostles , and when they have no cause of doubting of the doctrine and faith of that councell , yet they would not beleeve nor obey . but now although wee are ve●emently perswaded of the certainty of our faith , who can in such aname assure us , or certifie that wee cannot erre ? what councell can wee now perswade our selves so uncorrupt , as that of the apostles or primitive church ? those who deny excommunication of hereticks , say , bring not arguments and reasons out of the new testament , but that power of the spirit with which the apostles being endowed , delivered up to satan and kild hypocrites with a word : if you want this powerfull efficacie of the spirit , acknowledge your rashnes and iniquitie in condemning those , to whom you cannot demonstrate your interpretation of scripture : neither is the spirit now so weak , but that bee is able to give testimonies of the divine authoritie , and his presence in his ministers now against his enemies . it followes not because many things were not tolerated in the infancie of the church in the primitive times , therefore they ought not to bee tolerated now in the old age of the church : they deceive and are deceived who would bring our times to the example of that flourishing age . when the church was healthfull and strong in that first flower of its age , and whilst the company of the apostles were living , the using of violent remedies in respect of the churches vigor was meet and agreeable . now the church with diseases and old age being weakned and spent , it now almost falls downe under its prevailing sicknesse : neither is it any time more in danger , then when it fals into the bands of cruell physitians . in time past its first vigor admitted of opening of veines and losse of bloud ; now if after strength exhausted by so many evils there remaine any vitall iuyce and moisture , it cannot but by letting bloud be poured out with the life and spirit , and therefore this remedie of the punishment of hereticks for the preservation of the church ought to bee omitted now , when it will bring more hurt and danger , then profit to the church . so some of our sectaries in a late pamphlet , put forth upon occasion of their indig●ation at the late solemne fast of the tenth of march against heresies , plead that the scisme spoken against in the new testament is only of separating from those primitive apostolicall churches , planted immediately by the apostles and by infallible direction , but hath no reference at all to the churches of these times ; nay further upon this cleere reason why that old testament law about false prophets , &c should not now bind , all the lawes and commands written in the old testament , yea and in the new concerning the whole will of god may bee as well not in force ; and men may say for any thing pressed upon them out of the scriptures of the old or new testament , that they concern them not , because in all difficult cases that happened about matters of religion , in doctrine , worship , government , &c , the iewes to whom those commands were given , and the churches in the apostles dayes to whom the epistles were written had the opportunity of immediate and infallible direction from god himselfe by the high priest , prophets and apostles , who could and did in all doubts from time to time infallibly declare and resolve what was gods mind and pleasure , what was scisme , what was heresie , what use the law was of , how often christians should pray , heare gods word &c , whereas now the best oracles christians have to direct them about matters of religion , are men of very fallible judgements , and every way obnoxious unto error and mistake ; yea the wisest and most learned of them are not able cleerly or demonstratively to informe now what the government of the church was in the apostles dayes , what the duties of a minister are to the people , as how oft he must preach , so that upon hagiomastixs cleere reason in his . section against the old testament law for magistrates punishing blasphemers , idolaters , &c whatsoever can be brought out of the old or new testament in matters of dutie , may be evaded , and it may be said this or that was commanded or forbidden , because then they had the high preists , prophets , and apostles , who were infallible and could determine all difficulties . in a word if some dissimilitude that may be shown either under the old testament or the new , in the times , or state of things there , when those commands and rules were given , from the times and state of things now , may be a sufficient reason of the rules and commands themselves being now not in force , then it will follow that all morall duties laid down both in the law and the gospel bind not us , because the same dissimilitude , or as great may be shown in whatsoever dutie upon any ordinance of christ or relation among men is propounded . upon this ground the sacrament of baptisme shall not be perpetuall not universall in the church , because of some differences between that time when christ instituted it , and the times now , as * socinus thereupon held baptisme an indifferent thing belonging only to the infancie of the church , in which out of a rude people and accustomed to ceremonies , a church was gathered to christ : so neither an outward calling and ordination of ministers shall be perpetuall , because then there were apostles and other extraordinary men , who in ordaining them could conferr the gifts of the holy ghost , and had the gift of discerning of spirits : so all the commands given by paul and peter of servants obeying their masters , and being subject to their masters with all feare , may be evaded , and they may say they concerne not us , because the servants in those times were their slaves , bought with their money , at their dispose , but wee are borne free as well as our masters ; and then those servants in any commands doubtfull had apostles or other infallible men , to go to to be resolved , which wee have not , they being long since ceased , and so i might goe over all examples and commands both in the old or new testament . * fifthly , this cleere reason of hagiomastix in his . section and . page why magistrates under the old law might exercise coercive power , upon false prophets , blasphemers , &c because in all difficult cases of religion the iewes to whom this law was given , had the opportunitie of enquiring by vrim and thummim , of immediate consultation with the mouth of god himselfe by the high priest , seems not to be any reason upon these grounds . first , that reason is never expressed in those commands or examples for putting to death false prophets , blasphemers , idolaters , &c. but other reasons are alledged , viz. from the nature of the sinnes , drawing away from god , the putting away of the evill , and that others may feare and do no more so , with other such like , all , reasons of a common nature to the times now as well as then . secondly , before there was a high priest , and holy garments made for him , particularly the brest plate of judgement , the vrim and thummim , exod. . . . the law was given for putting to death idolaters , exod. . . and in jobs time long before the high priest , and in a land where the high priest was not enquired by , idolatry was an iniquity worthy to be punished by the iudges . . those who were heathens strangers in the land of judea , that beleeved not in the god of israel , nor understood not what the judgement of vrim was , and the sentence thereof , yet the iewish magistrates would not suffer such whilst staid among them , to blaspheme god , to worship strange gods , or to offer their children to molech , as appears in levit , . . and in page . . of this treatise . fourthly , the magistrates exercised their coercive power in matters of religion , as freely after vrim and thummim were lost , and that judgement ceased , as they did before , which cleerly showes the enquiring by vrim under the old law , was not the cause of those lawes concerning punishing idolaters , and false prophets , being in force : it is the judgement of most of the learned writers both robbins and others , that the oraculous consultation with the breast-plate continued no longer then to the captivitie of babylon , vrim and thummim being lost at the captivitie of babylon , and wanting at the peoples returne , as these scriptures show ezra . ▪ . nehem. . , neither do we find that ever god gave answer by them any more divers learned men who write of the iewish church and state , and of the first and second temple , of hag gai . . haggai . . the glory of this latter house shall be greater then of the former , show the want of five things in the second temple which had been in the first . the a●ke with the mercy seat and cherubims . secondly , the fire from heaven . thirdly , the majesty , or divine presence . fourthly , the holy ghost , fifthly and the vrim and thummim , of which the reader may see fully in ainsworths annot. on exod. . . now that after the captivitie of babylon , princes and magistrates used a coercive power for offences against the first table , is plaine by those instances ezra . . , . of making proclamation that all who had taken strange wives of the people of the land , should come unto jerusalem for the putting them away , and such as were borne of them , and that whosoever would not come within three dayes according to the councell of the princes and the elders , all his substance should be forfeited , &c nehem. . . nehem. . and . chapters , nehemiab and other rulers entring into covenant for reformation in the matter of the sabbath , strange wives , maintenance for the service of the house of god , and nehemiah commanding and contending to have matters reformed in the worship and house of god , yea restraining and hindring the prophanation of the sabba●h , and smiting some for marrying wives of ashdod , of ammon , and of moah ; yea the want of a priest standing up with vrim and thummim , by whom the magistrates might enquire , was so far from hindring magistrates in punishing about matters of religion , that the quite contrary is expressed both in ezra and nehemiah . ezra . . nehem. . . some priests being put from the priesthood and forbidden by the governor to eat of the most holy things till their stood up a priest with vrim and with thummim , that is for want of a vrim and thummim by which god might be consulted with and his mind known herein ; zerubbabel ( the tirshatha is commonly said to be zerubbabel ) would not let the priests that knew not their genealogies eat of the most holy things , so that some priviledges are denied for want of vrim and thummim , in a case of geneologie , and birth after a confusion and mixture of marriages for the space of about . yeares , being a matter of fact , of what genealogie verse . not a matter of law , but no restraints of punishments upon prophaners of the sabbath , & those who married strange wives &c for want of vrim and thummim . and long after the losse of vrim and thummim we find artaxerxes , darius , the king of niniveh and nebuchadnezzar making lawes for punishing men in cases of blasphemie , and other matters of the first table , and the places of scripture relating such edicts and lawes , speak of them by way of approbation , as i have shown before in the . and . pages of this treatise , whereunto i refer the reader , and shall only adde one passage out of * calvin upon that edict of nebuchadnezzar dan. . . for this edict daniel celebrates and sets forth , in which , capitall punishment is denounced against any man that shall speake amisse of the god of israel . truely t is no common honor that is given to a cruell tyrant when god assignes his prophet as the preacher to publish the lawes he made , and puts those lawes among his acts , and numbers them among his holy oracles . what ? whether is nebuchadnezzar praised by the testimoniall of the holy spirit , and of the prophet for taking upon him according to his power and authoritie the defence of the glory of the true god , that holy magistrates should beare with the wicked prophanation of his glory , and does not the lord rather under the person of a prophane king showe what becomes them to doe ? and certainly what is more preposterous then in the bosome of the church to foster unpunished wicked contumelies against god , which was in babylon enacted to be punished with capital punishment ? fifthly , this cleere reason of gods immediate and infallible declaring his own mind and pleasure under the old testament , even according to hagiomastix principles , is so far from being any reason why magistrates might then punish blasphemers , idolaters , false prophets , &c but not now , as that the contrary seems more reasonable : for in cases of immediate and infallible answers from heaven , god declaring who was an idolater , and what was idolatrie , &c convincing men so powerfully as leaving them without all subterfugies , one would think there should need the magistrates power a great deale lesse , then in a time when there are no such immediate answers from god , nor discoveries of men from heaven ; for it cannot be thought but that very bad men , when they certainly knew , that if they prophecied falsly , entised persons to idolatrie , &c could not upon any pretences whatsoever escape from being convicted , but should by god himself from heaven be judged idolaters , false prophets , and thereupon bee but to death , they would either wholly forbeare the outward acts , or if committed any such , they would confesse them , repent , and do no more so ; whereas when men know there is no such way of finding them out , of god from heaven naming persons and things , this is the man , and this is idolatrie , blasphemie , &c they would be incouraged both to doe such things and to maintaine them when they have done , to bring scripture against scripture , and reason against reason , as knowing all immediate answers and discoveries to be ceased : unto which if that be added , that under the old testament god himselfe inflicted more outward bodily punishments upon persons for idolatrie , wil-worship , scisme , &c , then hee does now under the new ( the judgements under the gospel being more spirituall as many examples in the old testament show , being a more immediate iudge , and inflicted of bodily punishments on the jewes , as he was to them a more immediate legislator of which i have spoken before in page . of this booke ) there appears lesse reason for those coercive commands being in force under the old testament , then now , there being in both these respects now named without the magistrates coercive power , greater means for awing and restraining violators of the first table , viz. gods immediate discovering , and inflicting of punishment , then in our times ; and for illustrating this wee may observe that in the primitive times when there were extraordinary gifts in the church , of miracles , &c , and immediate answers and revelations by apostles and prophets , then the church needed not so much the helpe of the magistrates and the civill sword , god giving no christian magistrate all that time , but the magistrates that were in those dayes were persecutors and enemies of the christians , but after the planting of the gospel and watering it , and the extraordinary gifts and offices in the church ceasing , then god gave kings and princes to be nursing fathers , to defend the church and the truth by their laws and power , and hath continued such ever since , as a great helpe to the church , as a wall to the weak vine : so when under the old testament there was according to this reason of master goodwin , such immediate and infallible answers from the mouth of god himselfe in all difficult cases of religion , and such immediate visible judgements by the immediate hand of god upon idolaters , false prophets , especially upon despisers of the glorious ordinance of the oracle of god amongst them , except men had been desperately and outragiously wicked , and had with a high hand despised god himselfe speaking and presently striking dead in case of disobedience , they could not have been obstinate seducers to idolatrie , false prophets , blasphemers , should neither so much have needed magistrates armed with commission from god to execute those commands of the . and . chapters of deut. &c , as in these dayes we doe , wherein both these are wanting according to hagiomastixs own confession , and so much for the fifth answer . sixthly , if this bee a cleer reason why that old testament law for the putting of false prophets , blasphemers , &c to death should not be now in force , because in all difficult cases that happened about matters of religion , the jewes to whom this law was given , had the opportunitie of immediate consultation with the mouth of god himselfe , who could and did from time to time infallibly declare what his owne mind and pleasure was in them . so that except those that were to give sentence in cases of religion , had been desparately wicked and set upon bloud , and had despised that glorious ordinance of the oracle of god among them , they could not do injustice , because god himselfe was alwayes at hand to declare unto them what was meet to be done ; whereas now the best oracles that magistrates and iudges have to direct them in doubtfull cases about matters of religion , are men of very fallible judgements , and every way obnoxious unto error and mistake : then t is as cleer a reason why the old testament law , for punishing murtherers and other malefactors for offences against the second table , should not bee in force now ; and whatever is said by hagiomastix in this reason against all bodily and civill punishment for transgressions of the first table , holds in all respects as strongly against the magistrates punishing for killing , stealing , &c , and the anabaptists , socinians and other hereticks , who wholly deny the christian magistrates sword , or at least the use of it in point of death under the n. testament against any transgression , viz. treason , murder , adulterie , &c , as well as blasphemie , idolatrie , may say the same for themselves , and among all other * arguments brought by them against the christian magistrates killing , or punishing murder , theft , adulterie , &c they may adde this new one of master goodwins , there is this cleere reason why the old testament law for punishing of murtherers , theeves , adulterers , &c should not now be in force upon any such terms as it was , when , and where it was given ; because in all difficult cases that happened about matters of the second table , the jewes to whom this law was given , had the opportunitie of immediate consultation with the mouth of god himselfe , who could and did from time to time infallibly declare what his owne mind and pleasure was in them : so that except those that were to give sentence in cases of bloud , theft , &c had been desperately wicked , and set upon bloud , and had despised that glorious ordinance of the oracle amongst them , they could not do injustice , because god himselfe was alwayes at hand , to declare unto them what was meet to be done ; and what kind of man-slayer was to be put to death , and whether the person killed the man casually or wilfully , &c , whereas now , the best oracles that magistrates and iudges have to direct them in doubtfull cases about matters of life , estate , &c , are men of very fallible judgements , and the lawes they are to proceede by , of doubtfull interpretation in many cases ; and therefore to goe about to prove that the law for punishing murtherers , theeves , &c is now , or amongst us in force , because it was once given unto the jewes , is , as if men should prove that a man may safely and without danger walk among ●ogs , praecipices , and ditches at midnight , because he may well doe it at noon day . i will undertake to make it good against master goodwin , that whatsover he saith in this his cleere reason for the magistrates punishing in matters of religion under the old testament , but against it now , to show it was the same in matters of iustice and right among men , then , and is as strong against magistrates coercive power now in those things , as in matters of religion ; yea upon that head of difficult and doubtfull cases , and danger of magistrates erring and mistaking in judgement thereupon , to give severall reasons of the danger of magistrates mistaking rather in difficult cases of the second , then of the first table : whoever hath but read and observed the scriptures , yea but the five books of moses , must acknowledge there were many difficult and doubtfull cases under the old law , upon the commandements of the second table as well as of the first , and therefore superior and higher courts , divers one above another were appointed by god under the law to which in hard matters concerning the second table , as of the first , they might resort for advice and resolution : whoever doth but consider the many questions and cases handled , and written upon , by the school-men , casui●ls , canonists , civilians upon matters of the second table , as well as of the first , together with the errrors * and diversitie of opinions that have been in the church from the apostles dayes down to this time upon every one of the commandements of the second table , as about magistracie , polygam●e , communitie of wives , and communitie of goods , about christians being magistrates , the lawfulnesse of christians going to war , about the lawfulnesse of lying , dissimulation , and aequivocation in divers cases &c , must confesse there are many controversies and doubts about the contents of the second table . that place in deuteronomy . from the eigth verse to the twelfth , brought by master goodwin for the judgement of vrim in difficult cases about matters of religion , and so made the ground of magistrates punishing for religion then , but not now , speaks , as well of hard matters in civill things betweene man and man , as in the things of god : there are some divines who understand the place wholly or principally of hard matters and controversies about the second table , so luther upon the place laboring to free it from the corrupt interpretation and sense put upon it by the papists , saith , moses doth here deale not concerning● the word or doctrine , or , as they speake , of the questions of faith which they would have referd to the pope , but of the sentence of publick and prophane crimes , so a●●sworth and our english divines on the place , by blood and blood understand murder , of which the iudges may be doubtfull and unable to find out whether it were wilfull which deserved death , or unwilling for which exile into the cities of refuge was appointede by plea and plea , pleading for , and against in the same cause , some accusing , some denying , as in kings . . . . by stroake and stroake , may be also meant stroaks and wounds that one man gave unto another whether of malignitie or casualtie ; and hagiomastix in section . in answer to the vindication of the ordinance against heresies , which brought deut. . . for a proofe of god making controverted points in religion a matter of death or imprisonment , carries his first and second answers so , as if that place were understood wholly or principally of controversies about the second table , between blood and blood , between stroake and stroake , plea and plea ; and if he meant not so , those answers are nothing to the position of the vindicator , affirming that god in the old testament gave authority to make a controverted point in religion , ( for of religion he speaks ) a matter of death or imprisonment . but all divines generally who write upon the place by way of exposition , or who have written of the judicatories among the jewes , and of appeales from lower courts to higher , and of the distinction between civill and ecclesiasticall courts , do understand the hard matters in judgment , and the matters of controversie within the gates , to bee meant of criminall matters in civill things , belonging to the second table as sixth and eight commandement , as well as of ecclesiasticall things : the matter too hard between blood and blood , between plea and plea , is interpreted by learned j●nius in his analysis upon deuterononie , of shughter and killing , and of contention in civill causes about such things as belong to the accommodations of life , as between stroak and stroak is of diseases as of the plague of leprofie , which was in an ecclesiasticall and ceremoniall way according to the law to be distinguished , and therefore in this place the argument that is handled is politicall or ecclesiasticall : the politicall is criminall or civill , but the ecclesiasticall is ceremoniall : so lyra understands between blood and blood , when one part of the judges say that this shedding of blood is to be punished with death as being voluntary murder , the other part sayes no , it is but casuall . master gillespie in his aarous rod blossoming book . . chapt . . showes t is agreed upon both by jewish and christian expositors that this place holds forth a supreme civill court of judges , and that this text holds forth two sorts of causes , some foren●icall , betweene blood and blood ; some ceremoniall between stroak and stroake . now this scripture speaking how that man shall die that will do presumptuously and will not hearken unto the judge , as well as he that will not hearken unto the priest , and speaking of matters of the second table as well as of the first , and the sentence of death here spoken of , if immediate and infallible by vrim , extending equally to difficult cases in civill matters as in matters of religion , or rather more , there being divers particular instances in scripture of answers in civill matters , as of war and foretelling of some events in civill affairs , but none in matters of religion ; if then the magistrate because of his immediatenesse of consultation with god , might punish in matters of religion , but not now , that immediatenesse being ceased , it will also follow he might then punish for bloud , &c , because by vrim hee might certainly know whether it was wilfull or voluntary , but now he may not , because t is possible and probable in doubtfull and difficult cases about mans life , meum and tuum , he may run into errors and mistake . sixthly , this cleer reason of hagiomastixs making infallibility the ground of coercive power , and fallibility a being subject to error and mistake , the ground of the deniall of such a power , is a fundamentall falsity , and a grand mistake , overthrowing equally all spirituall censures and punishments in cases of false doctrines and hereticks , and all bodily outward punishments in criminall civill matters , and so at once making void all the civill power of the magistrate , and all the ecclesiasticall power of the church : for the magistrate is not infallible , absolutely free from all possibility of error and mistake in his judgement in matters of the second table : many magistrates in those matters have and doe daily grosly mistake , many innocent persons have suffered , and doe daily , and many guilty persons have and doe escape ; who does not see in civill matters what mistakes there are , and may bee both in point of law and matter of fact , how lawyers and iudges are divided in their opinions , what controversies and difficulties arise upon cases , what doubts and scruples grow upon witnesses testifying quite contrary , and other circumstances , so that what iudge can say hee is infallible and certaine that hee is not mistaken , that hee saw such a fact committed , that the accusers and witnesses have deposed nothing but truth . i could instance in a hundred particulars both in regard of the law-makers , the lawes , the jewry , witnesses , the accused partie , the iudges themselves , &c wherein magistrates are as fallible and as obnoxious unto error in matters of the second table as in the first , yea , and in divers respects more ▪ but i must refer this to the second part of this subject , where the grounds for toleration , particularly that of no man being infallible in our dayes , is to be answered , deut. . , , , , . showes us there are difficultcases and controversies in matters of the second table , between blood and blood , &c and that among the iudges themselves , so that higher courts are appointed to go unto , and the highest of all the councell of seventie at jerusalem . who sees not in kingdomes about their lawes and civill rights as high and great controversies and contestations as in matters of religion , each partie having great lawyers and able men on their side . so the church with the best councels and synods are not infallible , but may mistake and erre and in in some things have mistaken , as * many learned protestants have shown against the papists upon that question whether the church may erre . and therefore by this cleer reason of master goodwin it should not be only unlawfull for the magistrates to punish for idolatrie , blasphemie , heresie , scisme , but for murder , theft , polygamie , adulterie , &c yea as unlawfull for the church to admonish and excommunicate for idolatrie , heresie , blasphemie , &c as for the magistrates to punish corporally : but now m. s. hagiomastix , ancient bounds or liberty of conscieuce stated , with divers of our sectaries who write of this question yeeld the magistrates power in matters of the second table , answering that of rom. . . to be understood in things concerning the second table , and the churches power in censuring for heresies , evading that of revel . . . to be meant of ministers , not magistrates , and of spirituall censures not civill , who yet are alike fallible and subject to error and mistake , the magistrates in civill judgements , and ministers in spirituall , as they are in punishing corporally in matters of idolatrie , heresie , and indeed considering the state of the question of magistrates coercive power in matters of religion , as i have laid it downe in the prolegomena , and so is to be understood viz. that the magistrate is to doe it upon advice and after advice in all difficult doubtfull cases with the ablest godliest ministers in the church , by the advice of synods , with solemne prayers , after meant of instruction and conviction used to the parties , which means and helps being not in civill causes nor in the censures of particular churches , are more liable to error and mistake then magistrates : so that if magistrates and churches may punish , the one corporally in matters of the second table , the other spiritually in cases of both ( as is confessed by our grand patrons of toleration ) notwithstanding their fallibilitie and possibilitie of mistake , then in difficult doubtfull cases magistrates may punish in matters of the first table , notwithstanding they are men of very fallible judgements ; or in case the want of the magistrates infallibilitie puts a supersedeas to his coercive power in matters of religion , the same want deprives him of power in civill things , and ministers in ecclesiastical , because of their possibilitie of erring in both : by all which the reader may see t is a very rotten foundation both to build upon , or to take away the power of censuring evill and erroneous persons upon the infallibilitie or fallibilitie of those who have authoritie from god ; no , certainly , this power and dutie of those who are in place both in church and state , are founded on the ordinance and institution of god , in appointing such offices , and in the nature of the crimes and offences , and on the ends of vindicating gods glory and name , and preserving others from being ruined , &c , but never on that , that the persons who should exercise it were infallible and not subject to error , which that t is so , may be demonstrated by these following reasons . first , in the churches of the new testament in the apostles dayes when they had men amongst them immediately inspired , who could dictate the mind of christ infallibly , and tell them the certaine meaning of any scripture , notwithstanding all that infallibilitie and immediatenesse of inspiration , such persons tenets and practises ( though erroneous and mistakes ) as by the rules of faith and love could and might be tolerated and suffered , were tolerated , and the apostles in those things so far from giving any directions to the churches for withdrawing or excommunicating , that they give commands to the contrary , namely to receive , bear with , please such , and not our selves , follow after the things which make for peace , and things wherewith one may edifie another , and whereto we have already attained to walk by the same rule , as these scriptures rom. . , , , , , . rom. , , , . phil. . , . with divers of the like kind show : the holding the day of christ to be at hand , was an error , and paul writes pathetically to disswade the thessalonians from it thes . . , , . yet for all that hee accounts them brethren , and so i might instance in other such particulars ; whereas on the contrary in damnable heresies , scismes , and such like , as denying the resurrection of the dead , holding circumcision necessary to iustification , in denying jesus christ to be come in the flesh , in teaching the doctrines of balaam and of the nicolaitans , in separating themselves and going out from the church , the apostles are against all suffering , bearing with , receiving of , and for rejecting , delivering up to satan and cutting of all such , as these scriptures testifie tim. . . tit. . . gal. . , . gal. . . the second epistle of iohn . . , . jude , v. revel . . , , . with many more . now in the tenets , opinions and practises of the first sort , the apostles could have resolved the romans , philippians as infallibly , who held the truth , and who in the error in those particulars , as in the latter of heresies : this is acknowledged by master burroughs himselfe in page ▪ , . of his heart divisions , even where he pleads for a toleration in all points doubtfull and controverted among godly men , who writes thus , all these people spoken of in rom. were not in the right , for a man not to eat flesh out of conscience when the thing was not forbidden , certainly was a sin , or to make conscience of a holy day which god required not , was a sin : now the apostle did not come with his authoritie , and say , i will make you leave of keeping such dayes , or you shall eate , or to abstaine thus as you doe is evill , and it must not be suffered in you . no , the apostle layes no apostlicall authoritie upon them , but tels them , that every man must bee ful●y perswaded in his owne mind in what he doth ; and who art thou that judgest another mans servant ? the lord hath received him . and yet the governours of the church in the primitive times might upon much stronger grounds have stood upon such a principle , then any governours of the church now can ; there was lesse reason why they should suffer any difference in opinion or practise amongst them , then why wee should suffer differences amongst us ; for they had men amongst them immediately inspired , who could dictate the mind of christ infallibly , they could tell them the certaine meaning of any scripture ; and yet we see plainly , the apostle applies himselfe both in the romans and philippians rather to presse mutuall forbearance , and keeping the vnitie of the spirit in the bond of peace , using all arguments of that kind , as god hath received him , be that regardeth a day regardeth it to the lord ; and hee that regardeth not the day to the lord , he doth not regard it , he that cateth eateth to the lord , &c. neverthelesse whereunto wee have attained let us walk by the same rule ; and if in any thing you be otherwise minded , god shall reveale even this unto you , then from god immediately and infallibly to declare who were in the right and truth in those particulars wherein they differed , and thereupon to command the others to be of their mind and practise in all the particulars , or else upon such an infallible resolution to declare they ought to be cast out of the church , and no communion hold with them : by all which t is evident , that infallibility and opportunitie of immediatenesse of consultation with god is not the formall ground of censure , but the nature of the things themselves , being destructive to faith , godlinesse , and edifying : for if the power of punishing had beene founded on infallibilitie , seeing the apostles were as able and infallible to give certaine resolutions in the matter of dayes , meate , and drinks and such like , as in matters of faith , they would have given other manner of rules then they did in rom. . phil. . and indeed if hagiomastize infallibilitie were good , what reason can be given why the apostles did not proceed with all errors and all persons , as with hymene●s , alexander , and the woman iesable , which cleerly showes the lawfulnesse of censures lay not in the infallible knowledge of the governours of the church but the apostles in persons and things themselves , the one sort weak peaceable christians holding the head , and communion with the body , the other turbulent , wilful , holding doctrins subverting in the foundation , the precious soules of men and godlines : and certainly if infallibility were not the just ground and formall reason of censuring , but some other thing , then fallibility a possibility of mistaking in some things cannot be a just cause of taking away all power of punishing from governors , and that in all points though never so destructive to gods glory and the soules of men . secondly in the new testament there are many commands given , and many ●●●les laid down both for those times wherein they were written , and for all times till the comming of christ , unto persons , who were not infallible nor immediately inspired , concerning heresies and hereticks , scismes and scismaticks , to beware of folk prophets , and false teachers , to avoid , reject , and turne away from them , not to beleeve every spirit , but to try the spirits whether they are of god , not to receive into house , neither to bid god speed those that trasgresse and abide not in the doctrine of christ , not to suffer those who teach false doctrine , and sed●ce the servants to god , to countend ●arnestly the faith , to hold fast the truth and sound doctrine show was these scriptures to whole churches and particular persons , both private christians , and pastors , and teachers , not apostles and prophets , the extraordinary officers rom. . , , . phil. . . . tim. . . pet. . . john . . . epist . john . . jud● . revel . . , . revel . . now however the apostles and prophets in those primitive times were infallible and immediately inspired ( of whose immediate infallibilitie how farre , and in what way , whether only in penning the holy scriptures , or how else , whether * ex hubituali asse●●entia spiritus or only de particulere assistantia spiritus i shall speake at large in the second part of my anti-toleration , in answering that objection , we have now no externall infallible iudge ) yet all those they w●●t unto in their epistles , every particular beleever , man and woman were not , neither are infallible , not the elect lady and her children , not all the beleeving romans , nor all those christians to whom the epistle generall of iohn and iude were written , nor those angels of the churches of pergamus and thyatira , nor christians in our times to whom those commands and rules are written and given by the apostles , as well as those who then lived , ( for the epistles did not concerne the times and the particular churches and persons only to whom they were written as some wickedly affirme ) and yet these are commanded to stand fast in the faith , to avoid those who cause divisions contrary to the doctrine which they have learned , to prove al things , are reproved & found fault with by the spirit of god for not censuring of heresie , false doctrine , &c. which fully proves true doctrine may be known from false , false teachers may be discovered and censured by persons not infallible , and so the judging of what is heresie , scism , and who is a heretick or a scismatick , and the punishing , or not punishing of them depends not upon infallibilitie or fallibilitie of spirit , infallibilitie is not the ground of censure , nor fallibilitie of non censure . thirdly , the apostles who were infallibly and immediately inspired , yet in cases of controversie arising in the church , and in censures and determinations thereupon , did not act from infallibility and immediatenes of answers from god , but from scripture grounds by way of reasoning and disputation deduced , and in a synodical way by the joint common resolution of elders as well as themselves , as is evident by acts . acts . , , , . in that dissention that paul and barnabas had with certainemen that came downe from judea about circumcision , paul and barnabas were able to have determined it without their and others going up to jerusalem to the apostles and elders : paul by his apostolicall infallible spirit , could have determined as in gal. . . behold , i paul say unto you that if you be circumcised , christ shall profit you nothing ; but the whole businesse is debated , decreed , and the decrees sent forth by synodicall authoritie determined according to the word of god , and not by extraordinary immediate infallible inspiration of the spirit , the proofe of which seing the reader may find so fully and largely in many learned * authors i shall spare to write anything of it . so upon pauls comming to hierusalem acts . and the offence that many thousands of the iewes which beleeved and were zealous of the law took at him , paul went not upon his own infallibilitie of spirit or immediate revelation , but upon the joint councell and direction of iames and all the elders verse . , , , , , . now if the apostles in judging of false doctrine and scisme , censuring the authors of these and imposing upon the churches their decrees to be kept ( all which are spoken of in a●ts . ) proceeded not in the way of infallible immediate revelation from god , laid it aside as it were , but in an ordinary way , by scripture , reason , experience upon and after much debate , as is apparent from verse . to verse . then t is evident that immediatnesse of revelation , with infallibilitie of spirit is not the sole judge of heresies and errors , and the only just reason of inflicting punishments upon hereticks and scismaticks . seventhly , besides the other false suppositions laid down by hagiomastix in his . sect. as the enquiring by vrim and thummim in cases of idolatrie , blasphemie , as that inallibilitie is the ground of coercive power , &c , this also is false that he supposeth under the new testament , there is no infallibilitie nor certaintie to be had in difficult , doubtfull matters of religion , but that in those things we walk at midnight , in comparison of those under the old law who walked at noon day , which assertion of the uncertaintie and darkenesse of the church in points of religion under the new testament compared with the old , is contrary to these grounds . first , to many prophecies of the state of the church after christs comming , which speak that then the earth shall be filled with the knowledge of the glory of the lord , as the waters cover the sea , and the light of the moon shall bee as the light of the sunne , and the light of the sun shall be seven sold as the light of seven dayes , and unto the manner of the administration of the covenant of grace under the new testament , which however for substance was but one and the same under the law , and the gospel , yet for manner of dispensation and application differed and is various , as many * divines show , and one of the main differences between them in manner of administration stands in this , that the covenant of grace under the new differs from the old in cleernesse and evidence , in that the doctrine of grace and salvation by christ , and of faith in him together with the appendixes is more distinct and expresse then before it was , not being now under a vaile , but beheld with open face cor. . , , , . secondly , then the church of christ under the new testament should be in a far worse condition then the iewes were under the old ; for whereas they were sure and certaine in their religion , and had an infallible way of being resolved in all doubts , christians now should be in continuall doubts and uncertainties in matters of faith , not knowing what to doe , or whether to turne themselves , which must needs be a most miserable condition , and the iewes case in the time , before christs comming in the flesh , was to be much preferred before ours ; for the burden of being under the pedagogy of the law , with a certaintie and infallibilitie of knowing what to hold and beleeve , is a light burden in comparison of being freed from the ceremoniall law , and in the meane time to be without all certaintie and assurance in points of faith and worship : who would not chuse rather to undergoe some burden with an infallibilitie and certaintie of religion , then to enjoy a libertie from a yoake with an uncertaintie and continuall feares is not the bondage of feare worse ; then a bondage of ceremonies and many outward legal observations ? if the deliverance of us from the pedagogie of the law hath brought us into this condition , out burden is greater in this thing then any that the law laid upon the iewes . hath christ delivered us from one burden to lay a greater upon us ? have wee not cause to say , lord let any burthen of the ceremoniall law be laid upon our necks rather then this ? thirdly unto the end of christian religion , and the knowledge of it as it is written in the scriptures , particularly of the new testament , which is that * christians may have consolation and hope in life and death rom. . . epist . john . . now there can be no solid comfort , without certaintie and assurance of the truth of the thing , in it felse at least , which wee professe ; but in doubts , fears , uncertainties , the soule must needs be in perplexities , anxieties , as upon the rack , feare hath torment iohn . . . but secondly the infallibilitie and certaintie under the old testament by vrim and thummim of the priest , so much spoken of and magnified by hagiomastix , above that under the new , was as much liable to questioning and doubts by cavilling , and contentious spirits as the way under the new , and many exceptions might be made and controversies to arise , whether those who were to give sentence in cases of religion , upon the answer by vrim did according as they received it from god , or according to their own corrupt affection and interest , which considering what many of the priests were under the old testament , corrupt and partiall and the silent manner of gods answer by vrim , might give occasion of questioning , yea hagiomastix himselfe supposes and implies in some cases a possibilitie of a wrong answer and doing injustice after consultation with the glorious ordinance of the oracle of god , as these words show , so that except those that were to give sentence in cases of religion had been desperately wicked , end set upon bloud , and had despised the glorious ordinance of the oracle of god amongst them , they could not doe injustice : now t is evident there were high priests among them and such who had power of sentence in cases of religion that were desperately wicked , who either might passe sentence without enquiring by vrim , or else not goe according to gods answer by vrim , but according to the lusts of their owne hearts : whosoever does but consider these examples following recorded in scripture both of the priests and other men , going flat contrary to the mind of god , and immediate answers from him , will not wonder but be satisfied . the priests in ieremiahs time were desperately wicked and set upon bloud , even upon having ieremiahs bloud , pronouncing sentence upon him , this man is worthy to die , and thou shalt surely die , jerem. . , . and there were many complaints by ieremiah , ezekiel , and other prophets , of the priests , and cheife priests being out of the way through strong drink , erring in vision , and stumbling in judgement , saying to a stock , thou art my father , and to a stone , thou hast brought me forth , &c offering violence to the law and prophaning of holy things , putting no difference between the holy and prophane , hiding there eyes from the sabbaths : the chiefe of the priests , transgressing very much and polluting the house of the lord , which he had hallowed in ierusalem esay . . ierem. . . ezek. . . chron. . . now if the priests would doe all this when they degenerated , offer violence to the law , say to a stock thou art my father , pollute the house of the lord , and much more that is recorded in the scripture of them , then there is no question to be made , but they might pervert the sentence by vrim and give an answer quite contrary to what they received immediately and infallibly from god , therby condemning the innocent and clearing the guiltie , making that prophecying falsly as in ieremiahs case which was prophecying truly , making that blasphemie which was none : yea , they are particularly taxed for erring in vision , and stumbling in judgement , which words probably may be meant of their judgement by vrim , the priests answers in that way being cald the judgement of vrim and judgement in divers places of scripture as numb . . . exod. . , , . so that for all hagiomastixs cleer reason , if the * priests were corrupt and partiall under the law , as some good priests in some particular cases might be , and were , as aaron in the golden calse , eli in the matter of his sonnes hophni & phinehas , and wicked ones would certainly be , the iews might be in danger in matters of religion to be punished unjustly then in those dayes , notwithstanding their priests had immediate and infallible answers from god , as well as christians now under the new testament ; besides , if we consider what the way of answering by vrim was and that as distinguished by * rabbins and other divines from some other wayes of gods answers , not by a loud voice that all who came to enquire might heare the answer as well as the priest , but in a silent way and manner , revealed only to the priest either by inspiration , or by looking into his breast-plate upon the darknesse or brightnesse of his iewels by which he knew , or by some letters in the breast-plate in which he read the will of god , and so by the priest communicated to the iudges , and standers by , but if the priests would pretend other answers from god then he gave , how should the iewes disprove them , and what more certaintie had those who in difficult doubtfull cases came to the high priest to enquire by vrim ( seing they received the answers not from god immediately but from the high priest , and the priest might possibly deceive them in cases falling out about their own children or neer bloud showing partialitie and affection ) then may be had by us now in these times ; nay going according to master goodwins principles , that the sentence of the high priest was by vrim and not by the law , the judgement of vrim from the priest was the supreme and last iudge , in case the priests would be false , as in some particular cases they might , the iewes were in a more uncertaine and worse condition , then if to be judged by the law , or wee in these dayes , who if our magistrates and iudges should degenerate might appeale to the scriptures and urge them to them whereby to convince them , but so could not the iewes according to hagiomastixs doctrine , the priest by vrim being appealed to in cases where they suppose the law could not helpe ; and lastly , if wee consider how prophets under the old testament , who were as immediately and infallibly inspired , as the high priest by vrim , yet in all their answers and dictates were not without all possibilitie of mistake , as is evident by nathans answer to david sam. . , . &c , nor without all danger of deceiving those they spake to , as is to be seen in that example of the old prophet in bethel kings . , , , . and divers other places of scripture speaking of prophets , wee may easily conceive how magistrates and iudges then might be liable to error as well as now , especially if they tooke all the priests and prophets said without comparing and examining those things by the law : so that by all this and a great deal more that might be spoken to this effect , as the magistrates and priests combining together , &c. the iewes to whom the law was given for putting false prophets , blasphemers , to death for all the opportunitie of immediate consultation with the mouth of god himselfe by vrim , and by prophets might in many cases have been deceived , mistaken , and in as great uncertaintie every way as hagiomastix supposes the church to be in under the new testament . thirdly , supposing and granting there had been such a certaintie and infallibilitie in the matters of religion under the old law as is contended for by hagiomastix , and that free of all the exceptions now spoken of , yet i affirme there is an infallibilitie and certaintie under the new also in the doctrines of faith and worship , and christian magistrates may infallibly and certainly know such and such doctrines to be false , and such true , such practises and speeches to be idolatrous , blasphemous as well as the iewish magistrates did , and supposing that true which hagiomastix saith , that the iewish magistrates had a certaintie of knowledge in all difficult cases of relgion by the judgement of vrim which christian magistrates have not , yet in another way and by other means they may have a certaintie and infallibilitie that these and these doctrines are of god , and other doctrines are not of god : when there are three or foure wayes to come to the certaine knowledge of a thing , a man may be sure and certaine in one or two , though he have not all the wayes , a iudge who hath three or foure honest witnesses and many circumstances , with the parties own confession may be certaine though he might not see the fact committed , nor have all wayes of knowledge that possible may be , and so may magistrates now in this case of religion though they should want some one way the magistrates under the new testament had ; and for the certaintie and infallibilitie in matters of religion under the new testament , it may apeeare thus , . hagiomastix must confesse upon his own principles , that during the apostles times ( which was under the new testament ) in all difficult cases that happened about matters of religion , christian magistrates might have had the same opportunities of immediate and infallible answers as under the old , apostles , prophets then having as infallible immediate revelations from god as the high priests , and therefore in case there had been christian magistrates in the apostles days they might by this reason have exercised coercive power on apostates , hereticks , and blasphemers , as well as the iewish magistrates , by which t is apparent those lawes about false prophets and blasphemers were not only old testament lawes proper for moses paedagogie , but new testament lawes , and that for the prime flourishing state of the new testament , the apostles times . secondly , the independents and sectaries in many of their books , sermon● and discourses tell us of a time at hand wherein there will be a new and marveilous light , when wee shall cleerly and certainly know the truth of these things now so much doubted of and controverted , of the nature of a visible church , of the government of the church , and such like . now then upon master goodwins cleare reason , the old testament law for the putting of false prophets , &c to death , should be in force under the new testament as well as under the old , because then in all difficult cases in worship , doctrine , &c , the christians that live in those times may infallibly and certainly know the mind and pleasure of god in them . master goodwin in his postscript or appendix to h●giomastix ( the scope of which discourse is to make inval'd that zach. . . from being any ground for civill coercive power against false prophets ) among other evasions interprets the * place to relate to those times of refreshing to the iewish church and nation , the time when god intends to build up the iewes again into a church of far more inward grace and holines ; into a nation of far more outward beauty strength and glory , then ever was their portion since they first became a church or nation unto this day , either in the one kind or in the other . now of that particular time and day of the new testament t is especially prophecied , that outward coercive power shall be exercised upon false prophets , and it shall come to passe that when any shall yet prophesit , then his father and his mother that begat him shall say unto him , thou shalt not live : for thou speakest lyes in the name of the lord , and his father and his mother that begat him , shall thrust him through when he prophecieth . as for hagiomast . figurative sense put upon these words against the literall and proper , and other his glosses to corrupt the text , i shall speak to them in the . thesis , where i shall prove that zach. . . to be a good proofe of the magistrates coercive power under the gospel . thirdly , for that time and those dayes under the new testament , between the primitive apostolicall churches , and the calling of the iewes , into which we fall and among which our times are to be numbred , there is an infallibilitie and certaintie to be had in doctrines of faith and christian religion , and the best oracles magistrates have to direct them in matters of religion now , are not fallible and every way obnoxious unto error and mistake . the scriptures are an infallible and certaine rule , the voice and word of god himselfe , god speaking by them as by vrim and thummim : learned * bishop davenant in his disputation de judice ac norma fidei & cultus christiani , in answering that objection of the papists , if generall councels could erre , their should be no firme iudgement in the church to compose controversies , answers , if the papists speak of a humane judgement we acknowledge non● so firme and infallible to which all men may safely and securely commit their faith without triall . but if they speak of a divine judgement , we affirme there is a firme and perpetuall judgement in the church of all the doctrines of faith , namely the judgement of god speaking in the scriptures : for he is not to be confuted with arguments , but to be reckoned among atheists who denies in the scriptures in the things of faith that there is a sentence pronounced by god himselfe , and that intelligible , firme and infallible . were those answers by divine inspiration and immediate revelation ? so are the scriptures of divine inspiration and immediate revelation also tim. . . all scripture is given by inspiration of god , pet. . , . no prophesie of the scripture is of any private interpretation , for the prophecie came not in old time by the will of man : but holy men of god spake as they were moved by the holy ghost , were those answers sure and certaine the oracles of god among them ? so are the scriptures sure and certain , psal . . . the testimony of the lord is sure , luke . . . that gospel was written that theophilus might know the certaintie of those things wherein he had been instructed , colos . . . there is a full assurance of understanding to know the misterie of god , and of the father , and of christ , the scriptures are cald the oracles of god acts . . rom. . . pet. . , as well as the judgement by vrim , to show they are infallible and certaine , master goodwin in his anapologesiates page . saith of some doctrines that he holds , for my part i have the grounds of god , i mean the scripture : i would fain know of hagiomastix what made the answer by vrim to be infallible , and to be beleeved and rested in by those who came to enquire , but that god who was true and infallible said so , and revealed it , and is there not the same in the doctrines contained in the scriptures ? hath not god who is truth , and infallible revealed and declared them in scriptures and thereupon propounded them to be beleeved : the doctrines of faith must be laid downe certainly and infallibly in scriptures , both from the * nature of faith which in respect of the matter to be beleeved must have certaine , infallible , and undoubted truth , and not that which is false or doubtfull , and from the * formall reason and ground of beleeving which is the authoritie of god who is true and infallible revealing his mind , & not the testimonie of the church ; as also from the end and use of the scriptures to be the canon and rule of faith : now the canon of a thing , especially the supreme & cheif by which all other are to be tried and judged of , had need be certain and known , and not doubtful , and unknown . learned rivet and other protestant divines writing of that question against the papists , of the scriptures being the canon and rule of faith , speak thus , the canon and rule of faith must be certaine and known . the * best protestant divines writing against the papists of the canon of the srcipture show that is one principall requisite to make a canon and rule that it should be certaine and infallible ; the metaphor it selfe from whence the name is borrowed viz. not from any private measure , but the publick and allowed according to which by the law all other are to be measured , demonstrates the certaintie and infallibilitie of a canon and rule : that which in it selfe is uncertaine and variable cannot be the canon or rule of any doctrine much lesse of faith : yea * bellarmine himselfe disputing for the scriptures against enthusiasts proves the rule of the catholick faith must be certaine and known , for if it be not knowne it cannot bee a rule , and if it be not certaine neither shall it be a rule . whoever is but versed in the writings of protestant divines upon that head of the scriptures against papists on the one hand , and anabaptists on the other , or who so will consult them as a whitaker , b chamier , c rivet , d amesius , e bishop davenant , f whites way to the true church , g gerardus , h robertus baronius , i maccovius , k willets synopsis , l spanhemius , m cloppenburgius , shall find the infallibilitie and certaintie of the scriptures and of the doctrines of faith contained in them under the new testament abundantly cleared and made good , and the cavils about the interpretations of scripture , the need of a visible infallible iudge , of every mans private spirit being iudge , &c fully answered , and therefore i shall not enlarge further on it ; only i shall briefly adde , that god in these times of the new testament hath left this threefold way , and means of infallible certainty in doctrines of faith and worship . first , the scriptures , and more especially since the canon hath been sealed and compleated , contains and holds forth all things necessary to salvation , and out of them they may be certainly and infallibly known : the word of god written is an inflexible golden rule ( not leaden nor be bent ) for all matters of faith and manners , and there is such a certaintie of the doctrines of faith laid down in the scriptures , that . all poins of faith necessary to salvation are plainly therein set forth , so that all men who have spirituall eares and eyes may understand their meaning , which position besides that t is held generally by our most learned * divines against the papists , may be demonstrated by these places of scripture and reasons , as psal . . . . enlightning the eyes , making wise the semple , psal . , . pet. . . compared to a candle , and a light to our feet and paths , to a light shining in a darke place , deut. . . the commandement is not hidden , all which show the clearenes and plainnesse of the scriptures : the scripture in evident places calleth us to search it and seeke to it as john. . . esay . , &c , which had been to no purpose if they could not bee understood : againe , the end of the scripture is for our learning rom. . . but now obscuritie and things not to be understood ex diametro oppose learning : lastly , i might produce a multitude of pregnant quotations out of the fathers , justin martyr , chrysostome , austin , clemens alexandrinus , isidorus pelusiota , gregorius , &c speaking of gods fitting the scriptures even to the capacity of babes and sucklins , of the scriptures being a river wherein the lamb may walke and the elephant may swim , of being a common light that shineth to all men , of being easie to be understood by the plowman , the artificer , the widow woman , and him that is most unlearned , but i remember i am handling the question of toleration , and not that of the perspicuitie of the scriptures , and doe therefore conclude , affirming things necessary to salvation , to be so cleerly laid down in the scriptures , that no man who can understand the words need doubt of the sense . . there is not only a certaintie and assurance to be had from the scriptures of things more plainly laid downe therein , the matters of faith absolutely necessary to salvation , but from the scriptures , by comparing scripture with scripture , considering of circumstances , by just consequences , and such like , many hard doubtfull points in religion which to one man alone , or to weak unlearned men are very uucertaine and doubtfull , yet by the helpe of many learned men in synods and councels going gods way may from the scriptures be made cleare and certaine : that place of scripture deut. . , , , , . showes us that hard matters and matters of controversie , too hard for a few priests the lower courts , may by the help● of the higher courts be so certainly and clearely resolved from the sentence of the law , the written word in that time , that they who will not hearken in that case deserve to die ; and so in the new testament some things in pauls epistles hard to be understood , which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest to their own destruction , learned men well setled in the faith may understand and beleeve certainly , and not be led away with their error to fall from their stedfastnesse as that place in pet. . , . implies . that controversie in acts . about keeping the law of moses and circumcision was hard and difficult considering that time and state of the church , as appeares by many passages in that chapter ; and yet from the scriptures by the means of a synod after much disputation and debate the truth was certainly resolved on , and so received by the churches , who when they heard it rejoyced in it asts . . secondly , the spirit of god in and by the scriptures doth infallibly and certainly assure and perswade the heart of the truth of the doctrines of faith ; t is a good saying of * luther the holy spirit is no sceptick , neither doth it write doubts or opinions in our hearts , but assertions more certaine and firme then life it selfe and all experience . the illumination , inward teaching , and perswasion of the spirit certainly assures us of the truth of the doctrines of faith , john . . cor. . , . ioh. . , . john . . the spirit of truth guides into all truth , it is the spirit that beareth witnesse because the spirit is truth , which spirit as it seals and confirmes in our consciences the truth of all the doctrines of faith and salvation , so also it certainly perswades us those books to be canonicall , from whence all those doctrines of faith are drawn : but concerning these points of the scriptures being the infallible inflexible rule , and the spirit of god speaking in and by the scripture being the supreme infallible iudge in controversies of religion , and of the plerophorie wrought in the minds of the faithfull concerning the scriptures and the doctrines of faith therein contained by the illumination and inward perswasion of the spirit , and that every mans private spirit is not thereby made the iudge of controversies , i referre the reader for full satisfaction to the learned writings of whitaker against the papists upon that controversie of the scriptures , de scripturae authoritate , perspicuitate , & interpretatione , of rivet in his catholicus , orthodoxus , first tract . question . . and his isagoge ad sacram scripturam cap. . , . of davenant , de judice ac norma fidei , cap. . , , . and cameron de ecclesiae constantia in retinenda veritate , . . . besides the certaintie and infallibilitie by the scriptures and the spirit of god , there is a certaintie in points of religion , even points controverted , for christian magistrates to attaine unto , by means of the ministerie of the word in the preaching of pastors , and the advice and resolutions of synods and councels ; for next after the absolute supreme judgement of the scriptures and the spirit in questions of faith , god hath appointed a publick * ministeriall judgement of pastors and synods who have a delegated power from the supreme iudge , that what the law hath defined in general , they should according to the rule of the law apply to particular cases , controversies and persons : now however , these ministeriall iudges are subject to error and mistake , synods and councels may erre , as the most earned protestants hold against the papists , yet for all that they may certainly and infallibly judge in matters of faith , yea and have : a man may certainly know some things , and yet not be infallible in all things : a physition is not infallible in judging of the nature of all drugs , herbes , &c yet he may certainly know the nature of some drugs , and that such a thing is ranck poison , of which the reader may find more in the * vindication of the ordinance against heresie , blasphemie &c , to which hagiomastix answers never a word in his pretended answer : t is one thing to be subject to error , posse errare , and another thing actually to erre , de facto errare : it followes not because ministers and synods may erre , that therefore in all particular articles of faith propounded by them they do erre : t is a knowne axiome in the schooles , aposse ad esse non valet consequentia . and therefore ministers and synods in their interpretations and decisions going according to the word of god , which is infallible , judge infallibly , and may be said to be infallible in their determinations in those points : hee that is directed by an infallible truth in his determinations , he determines infallibly , although he be a man of a fallible judgement . thus many orthodox * councels and synods in great controversies and maine points of faith have determined the truth certainly and infallibly , and so propounded them to the churches to be certainly beleeved , not that they thought their judgement to be infallible , but that they knew the word of god according to which they judged to be infallible . doctor * davenant in his learned tractate de judice ac norma fidei , in answering the arguments of the papists that general councels cannot err , and among others this , that if all generall councels can err , then it certainly followes that all councels have admitted intolerable error , answers , t is one thing posse errare , another thing de facto errare ; every particular pastor mayerre , as also every particular councell , yet therefore they doe not admit intolerable error as often as they propound to the people that which is drawn from the word of god , where he * further showes how a man may be said to judge infallibly , that yet is fallible : and for conclusion of this i desire the reader to observe two things : first that synods and councels however in themselves fallible and subject to erre , yet being lawfull quoad id quod requiritur intrinsecus , and going according to the scripture , their results and determinations are from the holy ghost , and so infallibly and certainly true , as that of acts . . demonstrates , it seemed good to the holy ghost and to us , which words a synod having like cleare evidence of scripture , may without presumption use as well as that councell at jerusalem did ; for proofe of which kind of infallibilitie , besides what i have already said p. , , of this booke , i shal adde the judgement of learned * whittaker upon the words : other lawful councels may in like manner lassert their decrees to be the decrees of the holy ghost , if they shall be like to this councel , and shall keep the same rule , which in this councell the apostles did keep and follow : for if they shall decree and determine nothing but from scripture ( which was done in this councell ) and if they shall examine all questions by the scriptures , and shall follow the voice of the scriptures in all their decrees , then they may assert that the holy ghost so decreed ; of learned * cameron in his tractate de infallibilitate ecclesiae , we doe easily grant lawfull councels , lawfull , in respect of what is inwardly required in them , that is councels truely gathered together without all fallacie and deceit in the name of christ cannot erre in those things which are of any great moment : for we truly willingly confesse many councels not to have erred , yea wee confesse lawfull churches ( as in the sense above is explained by us ) that are truely gathered in the name of christ , not to erre in necessary things ; and of * baron , in that acute and learned reply of his to turnebull the iesuite , wee doe not simply and absolutely condemne that which the doctors of paris doe teach of the infallibilitie of councels . for it may be piously and probably beleeved that councels truely generall and lawfull , that is lawfully gathered , and proceeding , to be so governed and directed by the holy spirit , that they may not erre in fundament all points . i say this may be beleeved , because t is certaine such councels have never hitherto erred in doctrines fundamentall . secondly , although the authoritie and power of synods and councels is not of it selfe infallible , neither appointed of god that it should be the supreme and principall rule of our faith ; and therefore cannot by it selfe and of its owne authoritie bind the faithfull to beleeve whatever is determined in a synod or councell , yet there is in them the supream ecclesiastical power of judging and determining controversies of faith ; and that appointed by god to avoid confusion and rents in the church : hence the authoritie of lawfull councels hath a speciall force and singular efficacie before many other motives of faith , to beget a peswasion in the minds of men of the truth of the doctrine , agreed on in the councell . and because in our times the best synods and councels are rejected and flighted , and every private person takes upon them a boundlesse libertie of contradicting all synodicall decrees , i shall therefore lay downe briefly out of divers learned authors , what preeminencie there is in synods and co●ncels towards the compounding of controversies and doubts in religion , above what is in private christians or single particular ministers . there is an authorite given them by god , they are an ordinance of jesus christ to judge of , and determine controversies of faith , which no man of a sound mind affirmes of private christians or particular ministers . secondly , they have a power of subjecting those to excommunication and other ecclesiasticall censures , who openly contradict their decrees . thirdly , they have a more peculiar assistance of the spirit , & so greater then that which particular ministers judgeing apart have . fourthly , they have surer means of finding out the truth , viz. the prayers , fastings , disputations , &c. of the cheifest pastors of the whole church : for as * cameron speaks , in a councell , if there be present piou● and learned men , they open things , which before were shut , by their mutual disquisition , which cannot be so easily done of particular men apart . fifthly , a better ground of knowing what is the judgement of the whole church , concerning any question in controversie , and what the churches have observed in such cases . sixthly , a more easie way of reducing the decrees and determinations of the church to practice . seventhly , greater reverence , respect and obedience is owing to the determinations and decrees of synods and councels , then of particular persons or churches : the authoritie of synods in their place and degree is so to be looked upon , that particular ministers or private christians should not lightly or easily for every probable reason , or conjecture reject their determinations : hence cameron speaking of councels well observes , so oft as any thing is decreed by an assembly of men , who are put into anthoritie in the church , that should be a ground that such a thing should not rashly nor without a great deale of accurate and serious observation be rejected . for first of all , we owe reverence to a synod , even then , when we judge it decrees false things . a * pious sonne of the church doth not vainely insult over her , but with a kind of reverentiall shamefastnesse departs from her . secondly , wee owe outward obedience unlesse wee doe evidently perceive the synod to prescribe and determine false and wicked things ; for t is not lawfull upon light and probable reasons to oppose the judgement of the pastors of the church ; the certaine manifest authoritie of god commands us to obey the decrees of the church ; and when wee have only uncertaine conjectures and probable reasons , then that common rule is to be followed , * hold that which is certaine , leave the uncertaine . and therefore they who doubt of the truth of the decrees of a synod , or upon light and probable reasons think their opinion false , but doe not cert●inly know it to be such , are bound by the synodicall decrees to performe such an obedience as is agreeable to order , comelinesse and peace , which obedience is nothing else but the observance of christian humilitie and modestie , by which the faithfull in such cases abstaine both from a publike open profession of their opinion , and a condemning and confuting of the synods opinion , and in the meane time by diligent searching of the scripture do enquire out the truth and pray to god to manifest his truth to men , and to discover the errors of the synod , that so they being knowne , contrary doctrine may be established in another councel : of which seven particulars , and divers others of synods , whoever would see more , let them read baron against turnebull , tract . . de authorit . ecclesiae cap. . camerons praelect . de eccles . infallibilitate . . apollon . jus magist . circ . sacra first part cap. . . , . fourthly , there is a greater degree of infallibilitie and certaintie in matters of faith and religion to be attained by means of the scriptures , then was by the high priests answers by vrim , or then is to be had by miracles , by one arising from the dead and comming to us , then by an apostle or an angel from heaven , yea or from a voice comming from heaven , of each of which i will speake something briefly . . there was more certaintie even under the old testament in the word written in the law , then in the high priests answer , which appeares thus , because the law was made by god himselfe the cheife rule and measure of the high priests answer , and in difficult cases wherein the iewes were commanded to come to the high priest for resolution , the last reference is made to the law : that very place deut. . . , , . brought by hagiomastix page . to prove the sentence there spoken of , only such a sentence which the priest did upon enquiry by vrim and thummim receive immediately , or however infallibly from the mouth of god himselfe , and by the iesuits bellarmine , lorinus , bailius , &c brought to prove the pope the supreame infallible iudge of controversies , and not the scriptures , showes cleerly whatever answers the high priest gave in matters of judgement , they are limited expresly to the word of god , and that is made the supreme iudge : the iewes were not simply to rest in the judgement of the high priests whatever they pronounced , but as it was according to the law : there is an expresse limitation in the text , in verses . . thou shalt doe according to the sentence of the law which they shall teach thee ; in the hebrew text t is twice written juxta os legis , according to the mouth of the law , and the ordinary glosse upon that place , notes , that t is not said unto them thou shalt obey , unlesse they teach according to the law ; these words according to the sentence of the law doe signifie a condition , not a promise , as if god did promise the priests they should never depart from the law , which our * divines observe against bellarmine and other papists ; yea master goodwin himselfe sect. . of his hagiomastix speaking of this place to be meant only of such a sentence which the priest did upon enquiry by vrim receive immediately or however infallibly , from the mouth of god himselfe , grants it and puts in the same section this sentence of the high priest under the law , and saith the command in that scripture is with that caution and limitation of going according to the sentence of the law ; for proofe of which i shall quote his own words verbatim , thirdly , nor doth god in this passage of scripture ( speaking of deut. . . ) expresly command without caution and limitation that even in this controversie it selfe , he that would not stand to the sentence of the iudge , or high priest , should be put to death ; but only then , when the priests , the levites , and the iudge , should give sentence or informe them according to the sentence of the law. and for the readers further satisfaction of the scope and meaning of deut. . , , , , . to free it from master goodwins sense of only such a sentence which the priest did upon enquiry by vrim receive immediately , by which he would evade all punishment from the magistrate in matters of religion ( though i have said much upon the place already ) i refer him to the first tractate , eight question page . , . of rivets catholious orthodoxus , . then by miracles , t is a saying of * chrysostome , god hath left us the scriptures , more firme then any miracle : where the word of god is for such a thing , that thing is most true and certain , the word of god standeth and ahideth for ever ; it is easier for heaven and earth to passe , then one title of the law to faile : t is impossible for god to lie : miracles accompanying doctrines are not alwayes infallible proofes of the truth of them ; for false prophets , teaching false doctrines may doe miracles , and come with signs and wonders : deut. . , , . showes that false prophets who say , let us goe after other gods , may give signs and wonders , and the signe or wonder may come to passe , matth. . , . christ tels us that many who prophecied in his name , plead they have cast out devils , and done many wonderfull workes ; were workers of iniquity , upon which place * maldonate ( though a iesuite ) confesses those false prophets of which christ speakes wrought true miracles , truely prophecied , truely prophecied , truely cast out devils ; neither doth christ answer them that they lied , but that he knew them not although they had done such miracles ; and thereupon he grants there can be no necessary argument taken from true miracles to prove the truth of doctrine . so matth. . . thes . . . revel . . , . fully set forth how false prophets and anti-christ shall doe great miracles , by means of which they shall deceive many . in augustines time the donatists would alledge miracles done by them to prove the truth of their church and doctrine , and so doe the papists now against the protestants , making the glory of miracles a note of their church ; but augustine against the donatists of his time , and learned protestants against the papists upon that question of the notes of the church , doe prove the word of god a surer note and argument of the true church and faith , then miracles , as whoever consults the writings of * a augustine , b whitaker , c cameron , d rivet , e ames , f willet , g whites way to the church , and especially of learned h gerard shall find . . the proofe of doctrine by the scripture , is more infallible then the testimonie of one coming from the dead luk. . , , . mases and the prophets for perswading to beleeve are preferred before one arising from the dead : they who elude and wrest the scriptures , interpreting them according to their own iust , if one should arise from the dead , they would not believe him in what he said against their opinions , but would put off all one way or other : experience hath taught that as * maldon●ie observes : christ raised up lazarus from the grave , who ( as t is to be thought ) told the scribes and priests many things agreeable to those which christ taught them , and yet they were so farre from beleeving him that they would have killed him , john . , , so the scribes and pharisees after christs resurrection from the dead beleeved him never a whit more then before . . then an apostle , for the apostles notwithstanding the prerogative of infallibilitie , their certaine and infallible knowledge of the gospel by the immediate inspiration of the holy ghost , being infallible in their writings to the churches , and in those doctrines of faith they preached to those to whom they were sent , were in some things at some times subject to mistakes or errors . peter that great apostle of the circumcision , after the holy ghost was given acts . erred and mistooke in accounting the gentiles at that time common and unclean , as acts . . , , , , compared together fully showes , and in the doctrine of christian libertie , compelling the gentiles to live at the jewes , and not walking uprightly according to the truth of the gospel , for which paul withstood him to the face , because he was to be blamed , gal. . , , , . but the scriptures erre not at all are all fine gold without any drosse , cannot deceive , be perfect and glorious : the apostles themselves in their preachings and writings appealed to the scriptures , made them the chiefe rules of their doctrines , acts . . acts . , . acts , , . acts . , . acts . , , , , . rom. . . rom. . . with many other places to the same purpose : the 〈◊〉 are commended for that when paul the apostle preached to them , they searched the scriptures whether those things were so ; john the baptist was sent from god john. . immediately inspired by the holy ghost as well as the apostles , and yet christ prefers the witnesse of the scriptures before the testimonie of john , john . , . . the testimonie of the scriptures is greater then the record of john , of which see willets synops . first general controvers . concerning the scriptures , quest . fourth . then an angel , gal. . . but though wee or an angel from heaven , &c. paul prefers the scriptures before apostles , yea angels , and anathematizes them , if they bring any other gospel then what the apostles had preached , which in many places he declares was according to the scriptures . chrysostome saith that the scripture is to be preferd before the angels in the matters of faith : the word of god is the cheife and highest rule of faith , for as learned chamier writes , the word of god is god speaking , therefore look what is the authoritie of god speaking , the same is of the word of god , and therefore above angels : and by the way i desire the reader to observe against hagiomastix who makes such a do of infallibilitie , that not whatsoever is infallible is the supreme rule of faith , for that is a grand mistake to make every thing that is infallible the ground of beleeving , or the cheife rule of it ; but this is the ground of being the supreme rule of faith , that it be summae suaeque authoritatis of supreme authoritie , of it selfe , and not from another , which is apparent , because angels are infallible , the apostles also were ex particulari assistutia spiritus , and yet neither of them are , nor have been the supreme rule of the church . this paul hath taught us in gal. . . how apostles and angels are to be anathematized if they bring any other gospel : but these things are unworthy to be affirmed of the rule of faith , and especially of the supreme rule , which ought not to be so resembled to any thing that by that it should be corrected and ordered , for then it ceases to be a rule , but rather that by the rule , especially the highest , all things else are to be judged : wherefore , besides infallibilitie there is something else necessary to a thing that it should become a rule ; namely 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , that is , that it be of cheife , and of its owne authoritie , not of a subordinate and borrowed authoritie from another ; but whoever would be further satisfied in this point , let him read learned * chamier . . then gods owne voice from heaven , the apostle peter tels us pet. . , , . of that voice of god from heaven which came to jesus christ ; this is my beloved son in whom i am well pleased , which peter , iames , iob● , heard when they were with christ in the holy mount matth. . , . and yet peter speaking of the scriptures and comparing them with this voice from the excellent glory writes thus , we have also a more sure word of prophecie , whereunto you doe well that you take heed , as unto a light that shineth in a darke place , until the day dawne , and the day starre arise in your hearts , upon which words * interpreters on the place , and other * learned men show however that voice from heaven being from god as the written prophecies were , was in it selfe as sure , yet the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is taken either for a most lure , or very sure word , a comparative for a superlative , so used in other places of scripture , & so setting forth to us the scriptures being founded on the firmest and greaest authoritie ; or more sure , or more firme . ( so the word in the greek properly signifies ) to the christian jewes to whom the epistle was written , which by long use and experience were more setled in their hearts , and so sooner beleeved , then the voice from heaven , although that were sure also . christ in joh. . from verse . to the . speaking of the many testimonies concerning him , as his own , johus testimony , the testimony of his works , instances in the voice from heaven , witnessing to him matth. . . . matth. . and then christ goes to the scriptures as the highest and cheifest , search the scriptures , for in them you thinke you have eternal life , and they are they which testifie of me : wee may observe the gradation of the witnesses , christs works greater then the testimony of john , the fathers witnessing from heaven above that of his workes , and the scriptures testifying of him the last and greatest of all ; and for a conclusion of this , gods speaking to his church under the new testament , especially since the canon was sealed and confirmed , ( as divines speake ) that is by his sonne making known the whole evangelical doctrine and will of god concerning mans salvation , is by the holy ghost preferred far before the divers manners and wayes of gods making known his will before , as that of dreams , visions , vrim and thummim , voice from heaven , angels , &c , as is evident by heb. . , , . compared with the second of heb. . , , . in a word they who are so wicked to wrest and pervert manifest plaine places of scripture , would not ( if they had lived in those dayes , ) have rested satisfied in the sentences of the high priest by vrim , in one comming from the dead , in the doctrine of an apostle or angel , or in a voice from heaven , but would have made cavils , and sound pretences to have eluded and evaded all , or any of those as well as the scriptures , in all which i might give particular instances , but for present i shall instance only in the voice from heaven , of which voice from heaven john . , , . though it was so plain and distinct , testifying christ to be sent of god and the messiah , yet t is perverted and misinterpreted as much as the scriptures , of which voice from heaven how perverted , i referre the reader to learned * rollock . calvin , and other interpreters on that place of scripture , and so much for this seventh answer . eightly , supposing all hagiomastix saith in page . . . and , to be true that that sentence of the priest or iudge against which hee that would doe presumptuously was to be put to death , was only a sentence upon enquiry by vrim and thummim , and that the iewes opportunitie of immediatenesse of consultation with the mouth of god himselfe , was a cleer reason why that old testament law for putting of false prophets , &c to death was given to them , yet it followes not these laws cannot be in force now , unlesse that can be made apparence to have been the only reason and ground of the magistrates punishing , for if there were other reasons as well under the old testament of those lawes , and that by god formally and particularly declared and expressed ( as t is evident there were , and i have proved page . . and divers other pages of this treatise ) then they being in force still , the lawes bind though one particular reason , or more proper to that time bee ceased : i might instance in many morall things commanded under the old testament that unquestionably ( i suppose in master goodwins judgement ) are in force under the new , of which among other reasons given , there was some one particular reason proper to the iewes , that holds not now , but for this i refer the reader to page . of this book : and to put an end to these eight answers to the sixth evasion of hagiomastix page . , , i shall only mind him of that knowne axiome a particulari ad universale non valet consequentia , and therefore though that particular reason be ceased ( although i haue fully shown that never was any reason of those laws under the old testament for punishing of false prophets , but a meer device , and a fancie ) t is no good consequence , all the other reasons , yea , and the commands themselves should cease also . seventhly to that * hagiomastix saith , that the punishments enjoyned by god then under the law to be inflicted in his church upon delinquents , were more bodily and afflictive to the outward man , then the punishments enjoyned under the gospel , and consequently were not only carnall or bodily , but typicall also , and prefignificative of those greater and more spirituall under the gospel , cutting off from his people then , as of casting out from his people now , cutting off under the gospel being no where found to be used but in a metaphorical and allusive sense , also to what * minus celsus senensis writes that that corporall punishment in deut. . was a type of eternall damnation , and therefore that law with all the rest given for the future signification of things by the comming of christ ceased , i answer as followes . first , i deny the punishments enjoyned by god under the law to be inflicted in his church upon delinquents to be bodily or afflictive at all to the outward man , as by donfiscation of goods , or by death , but they were spirituall and inflicted upon the soules by suspension , excommunication , and such like spirituall censures , as well as now under the gospel : t is true , there were bodily outward punishments in the civill iudicatories inflicted then on the bodies of false prophets , idolaters , &c , but by the magistrates , the civil governors , and not by the priests , the ecclesiastical governors in the church of the iewes : for under the law the jewish church and common-wealth , the civil government and ecclesiastical , the censures and punishments of church and state were formally distinct , as master gillespie hath fully and excellently proved in his aarons rod blossoming in many places , particularly . book cap. . , , , and the church of the iewes proceeded then against false prophets , only with the sword of the spirit , and spirituall weapons , and the state with the materiall sword , and bodily punishments : which truth is fully acknowledged also by master cotton ( however differing from presbyterians about a national church ) in his answer to master williams bloudy tenet , saying , i should think mine eye not only obscured , but the fight of it utterly put out , if i should conceave as he doth , that the national church state of the jewes did necessarily call for such weapons ( a speaking of a sword of iron or steel ) to punish hereticks more then the congregetional state of particular churches doth call for the same now in the dayes of the new testament . for was not the national church of the iewes as compleatly furnished with spirituall armor to defend it selfe , and to offend men and divels as the particular churches of the new testament be ? had they not power to convince false prophets as eliah did the prophets of baal ? had they not power to seperate all evil doers from the fellowship of the congregation ? what power have our particular churches now , which their national church wanted ? or what efficacie is there found in the exercise of our power which was wanting to them . it is therefore a sophistical imagination of mans braine to make a mans selfe , or the world believe that the national church state of the iewes required a civil sword , whereas the particular state of the gospel needs no such helpe . and was not the national church of israel as powerfully able by the same spirit to doe the same ? surely it was both spoken and meant of the national church of the jewes , not by might nor by power , but my spirit saith the lord of hosts zach. . . so that by what i have already said hagiomastix must either ( i suppose ) recall what he hath written of carnal bodily punishments enjoyned by god then to be inflicted , in his church upon delinquents , or else must joyne with the erastians in holding the iewish church and common-wealth , their governement and censures all one and the same . secondly , the foundation upon which hagiomastix rears this building of outward punishments under the old testament being typical of spiritual under the new , ( viz the land of canaan with the external happinesse and peace there being typical , and therefore reasons a compara●is and from the analogie ) is sandie and unsound : for the land of canaan with the external happinesse and long life in it , whatsoever it was typical of , was from what god had put into the land , being a land healthful , pleasant , flowing with milke and honey , abounding in excellent precious fruits , the immediate blessings of god upon it , and not from what came to it by the magistrates laws and their good government , for further satisfaction of which i wish master goodwin to resolve me this question , whether the land of canaan were not typical as well in times of wars and troubles and under bad princes , as in dayes of peace , and under good princes and so to reason a comparatis ( to use his owne phrase and adidem , ) if temporall threatnings and bodily punishments inflicted upon delinquents under the old testament , were typicall and praesignificative of greater under the gospel , they must be threatnings and bodily punishments inflicted from god upon false prophets , &c , not thoe executed by the magistrates on them . thirdly , granting both hagiomastixs foundation and the building reared upon it to be good , yet they no whit prove bodily and outward punishments to be wholly taken away under the new testament ; for suppose the temporal happinesse and the temporal punishments had typified more spiritual happinesse , and lesse of the earth , more spiritual judgements , and lesse of outward or bodily sufferings under the gospel , yet it followes not , they take away all outward happinesse and blessings , and all outward bodily punishments : there may be greater or lesser degrees of things under the old and new testament suitable to some difference in the manner of administration betweene the old and the new , and yet not the substance of the things taken away : these are knowne axioms , gradus non tollunt substantiam , magis & minus non variant speciem : t is apparent by sense and experience that how much soever spirituall blessings , and spiritual judgements in the dayes of the gospel abound above the times under the law , yet they take not away all temporal outward blessings , nor all temporal outward judgements , but god for all that gives many outward blessings , and sends many temporal judgements on the earth , so supposing god should inflict more spiritual judgements on the soules of men under the new testament , and the church greater spiritual censures then under the old , it no way followes the magistrates may inflict none at all , especially when all spiritual judgements on the soule are slited , and with a high hand contemned . fourthly , whereas punishment by the magistrate and cutting off by death under the old testament , in cases of apostasie , blasphemie , &c , is made a ceremonie and type of excommunication under the new testament , cutting off of casting out , and of eternal damnation , i may truly answer this is gratis dictum , said , but not proved , and therefore might deny it without giving any reason , and bid the patrons of toleration prove it , but that the civill magistrates punishing delinquents under the old testament , was no ceremonie nor type , i shall give these reasons . . ceremonies , shadowes * typical things under the old law , were either of things past , or things to come , the remembrances of things already done , or the praesignifications of future things , but ceremonies and types were not the signification of things present and existent : now excommunication and eternal damnation were at that time under the old law when those commands of punishing with death the apostate , faise prophet , &c , were given and in use . that excommunication and cutting off from the church were in the church of the iewe● in the times of the good kings and magistrates punishing idolaters , &c with the civil sword , let the reader consult aarons rod blossoming book . , , . chapt . that there was hell and eternall damnation under the old law , as well as the new , both before those commands in deut. . . were given , and all along after , many places of scripture show , as isaiah . . . pet. . jude . , , that mention hell for the evil angels , sodomites , the unbeleeving israelites that came out of egypt , and the wicked kings of israel and judah ; and therefore that which hagiomastix saith , that cutting off from his people under the law , it exchanged for casting out from his people under the gospel , is very false , for there was casting out from the church as well then as now , yea cutting off spoken of in the old testament in many places , means nothing else but casting out of the church by excommunication , for full proofe of which i referre the reader to aarens rod blossoming . book cap. . pag. . , , , ; as also that passage is not true , that the expression of cutting off , where ever t is found in the gospel , is m●tephorical and allusive only , for cutting off is used in the new testament for cutting of by bodily death , as in gal. . . and else where : the proof of which i referre to the . thesis where i shall handle it fully . secondly , the same things may be said with as much reason against bodily outward punishments for breaches of the second table , adultery , murder theft , as against outward punishing for apostasie , &c , and if they hold not good against the second table , neither do they against the first . thirdly , the civil magistrates punishing for moral transgressions is no ceremonie nor type , acts of morall justice , though they may sometimes be extraordinary , yet they never were accounted typical or figurative , but by such as would transforme all the scriptures into an allegory , and master * cotton answering such a like evasion in the bloudy tenet , saith , did ever any apostle or evangelist make the judicial laws of moses concerning life and death , ceremonial and typical time was when humane inventions in gods worship were accounted superstition ; but now humane inventions in doctrine may passe for currant evangelical divinity . and in another * place , to make a judicial law a figure without some light from some scripture , is to make a mans selfe wise above that which is written . fifthly , the making these expresse commands of god concerning punishing idolaters , false prophets , blasphemers , types and figures of spiritual and eternal punishments , of excommunication , damnation , &c is , by turning the scriptures into an allegory , and forsaking their literal sense against the rules of interpretation given by the most orthodox * divines as augustine and others , a making them utterly void , and as opening a wide doore to all errors and foolish conceits , that as often as men know not how to answer the scriptures that crosse their opinions and lusts , and yet have a mind to keepe their opinions , they may still fly to this , and say , this scripture is not to be taken litterally , but mystically and allegorically : beza in that judicious tractate of his de haereticis a magistratu puniendis , in answer to montfortius a grand patron of toleration in those times , who in many places of his writings , made use of this invention , that corporall punishment under the old law , as stoning , was no figure of any bodily punishment to be now inflicted , but of eternal , to which we ought to leave hereticks , or else of that punishment which is inflicted not by a corporal sword , but a spiritual , the lively word of god , writes thus , * for this was the speciall subtiltie of sathan of old , which yet not one almost of the ancient fathers observed , that when he could not cast the scripture out of the church wholly , yet by vaine allegories , he made the whole scripture unprofitable and fabuloùs , so as truely there was not one peice of scripture left free of being contaminated with these allegories , which very course also the anabaptists , and libertines take at this day . but this i would that they should at length show us , out of what place of scripture they have learned that invention and device of the shadowes and figures of the judiciall lawes . per in ceremonies and so in some histories from the authoritie of scripture i acknowledge these things : but of judicial lawes , or corporall idolatrie , which might shadow out spirituall , i remember not that i have ever read any thing : but for further satisfaction in this particular , i refer the reader to the tractate of beza page . . sixthly , supposing all hagiomastix saith were true , that those bodily punishments commanded by god under the old law to be inflicted upon false prophets , idolaters , seducers , blasphemers , had been in some sense typical and praesignificative of those greater and more spiritual under the gospel , yet it followes not that they are ceased now , and may not be lawfully practised , for they may remaine and be made use of , though the other sense intended be fulfilled too : there is a compound sense of some places of scripture litteral and historical , figurative and spirituall , as weems in his christian synagogue second book page . , , , , showes , in which cases when the spiritual is fulfilled eminently , the literal is not abolished , of which i might give many instances , but shall onely name one , viz. that of deut. . . thou shalt not muzzle the mouth of the oxe which treadeth out the corne. now though the spiritual sense of that place , be the not muzling the mouth of the ministers who labour in the gospel cor. . . yet the litteral sense holds stil that a man should forbeare to muzzle the mouth of the oxe which treadeth out the cor●● , or at least t is not unlawfull to forbeare ; besides by the same reason , the decalogue the whole ten commandements are overthrown too , for both in moses his giving the moral law , and in the commands themselves with the preface from the second verse of the . of exod. to verse . there are divers particulars typical and figurative of things under the gospel , temporall corporall things of spiritual and heavenly , of which i having spoken before in this book pag. . , , . and many learned divines giving instances in this kind * as a zepperus b rivitus c master burgesse , i shall inlarge no further , but referre the reader to those books . having laid downe divers reasons to prove the commands under the old law for magistrates punishing false prophets , apostates , blasphemers , to be of common reason and equity given to all nations , and for all ages , and having answered the most materiall grounds brought by the patrons of toleration to make void those commands , as not binding under the new testament , i come in the third place to answer those evasions and shifts brought by * iacobus acontius , minus celsus senensis , and hagiomastix , `that if it should be granted that all and every the lawes contested about , as well that for putting to death the false prophet , as those for inflicting punishment upon the idolater and blasphemer were moral , and still in force under the gospel , yet these could not reach unto hereticks , and false teachers among us , at not being those false prophets , idolaters , blasphemers , spoken of in the old law. if it can be proved that hereticks are those blasphemers , false prophets , apostates , which moses commands to be killed , then it shall be acknowledged hereticks are to be killed ; but there is a large difference between a heretick and such a false prophet or apostate , as the presbyterians in their owne definition of hereticks make . a heretick does not deny god the creator of heaven and earth , neither doth he teach that other gods are to be worshipped ; a heretick does not deny the name of christ a heretick does not deny the word of god which an apostate does : so that the word of god may be used as a weapon against hereticks , which against an apostate , cannot . a heretick therefore is not mentioned nor touched in any one word of these lawes : but if any will go about to draw these lawes unto an heretick , that cannot be done by the proper force of the words , but ( as the lawyers speake ) per extensionem latamque interpretationem , by stretching of them and far fetched interpreation . and it would first be well considered of , whether every law does admit of such extensions , and if not every one , which of them then does admit , and wherfore ? and whether in this law there are those things for which an extension is to be made . by the false prophet who was commanded to be put to death deut. . . was not meant every heretick or erroneous person , nor yet those who taught or published any false doctrine though of dangerous consequence ; but only those who endeavoured to perswade men to the worship of a false god ; & that by affirming that they spake by the inspiration of some deitie , and that their sayings were to be esteemed oracles . what doctrine it was which made the prophet or teacher of it guilty of death , is expresly determined in the law it selfe , and asserted to be this ; let us goe after other gods , which thou hast not known , and let us serve them . and that the law of god made against false prophets and worshippers of false gods , was not intended against those who otherwise held that the law of god was to be kept , but were infected with some other error , is sufficiently evident from hence , because in former times among the iewes , who were affected with a vehement love and zeale towards their law , hereticks notwithstanding were tolerated , and particularly the sadduces . these although the greatest part of the people , and the rulers beleeved them to erre exceedingly , neverthelesse they were not expelled the citie , neither exempted from being magistrates , or bearing any other civill office : yea they were not hindred from coming to the temple or the synagogues . the scribes and pharisees also both held and taught many most dangerous and erroneous doctrines ; yet were they also in great honor and esteeme in this church and state . and though our saviour upon occasion reasoned against ; yea and reproved them all for holding and teaching these errors , and gave warning to take heed of them ; yet did he never charge this church or state , or those that bare office in either , with sin , or unfaithfulnesse in their places for not proceeding against them in regard of their errors , either by imprisonment or death . and yet we know that the zeale of his fathers house , did eat him up , and that he attempted a reformation amongst them ; yea christ did teach and presse upon men , all , and all manner of duties from judgement , mercy , and faith , even to the paying tithe of mint , annise , and cummin . ; now unto these and other such like , besides some hints i have already given upon the . thesis , which may serve in part for satisfaction to some of these evasions , i desire the reader to mind these following answers . first , there are other places of scripture both of commands , or else examples approved by god , concerning the punishing with death or restraining by civil power , ( the last of which makes good the point in hand against hagiomastix and other libertines , as well as that of death ) for other faults in matters of religion , besides blasphemie , apostasie , and false prophecying in the sense now alledged by hagiomastix and his compeers , which these following instances prove first in deut. . , , , , , that very chapter verse . brought by hagiomastix to prove only those were to be put to death , who endeavoured to perswade men to the worship of a false god ; and that by affirming , that they spake by the inspiration of some deitie , and that their sayings were to be esteemed by oracles , the holy ghost layes downe the contrary , giving a distinct precept and command from that of the false prophet , or dreamer of dreams , who publickly and openly sollicites to apostasie , concerning the killing of such who in a hidden and clancular way seduce : t is observed by learned junius in his analytical explication on deut. . that there are two sorts of seducers to apostasie commanded to be put to death , the one of such who publickly and boldly sollicite , who are spoken of in the first verses , the other of such who secretly intice in verse . and the five following : now however the false prophet or dreamer of dreames might pretend to speak by the inspiration of some deitie , for which the verse of the . is quoted by hagiomastix , yet the private enticers to apostasie , as the daughter , the wife of the bosome , the son , besides that they are made a different sort from the prophet and dreamer of dreams , and those six verses from the sixt to the twelfth containe a distinct command from the five first verses about false prophets , neither doe they give out signs or wonders to confirme their calling , the parties instanced in the text , being of daughters to fathers , wifes to husbands , &c , were not likely so much as to pretend to them the name of prophets speaking by inspiration of some deitie , but rather drawing by their neernesse of relation , intimatenesse of affection , opportunities of private and constant converse ( which many phrases in those verses , the wife of the bosome , thy friend which is as thy owne soule , entise thee secretly , thou shalt not censent unto him , neither shall thine eye pity , and such like imply ) and yet these are commanded to be put to death , as well as those prophets who openly and bodily gave out signs and wonders to confirme their being prophets , of which the reader may be further satisfied , by reading junius his analytical explication on deut. . and as moses in that former part of the chapter showes plainly , contrary to the affirmation of hagiomastix and other libertines , that others who perswade men to the worship of a false god besides those who pretend themselves prophets , are to be killed , so in the latter part of this chapter from v. . he layes downe how they are to be put to death also that are guilty of apostasie , that have suffered themselves to be drawn away from the true worship of god to other gods , who are so far from comming under the notion of false prophets , endeavouring to perswade men to the worship of a false god , and that by affirming they spake by the inspiration of some deitie , as that they fal not under the title of seducers at all , but the seduced ; and therefore * iunius writing upon this deut. . analyzes the whole chap. concerning apostasies into two , first , the authors entising to apostasie in the first . verses . secondly those who are guilty of apostasie , who suffer themselves to be withdrawn from the worship of god , in the latter part of the chapter , and he showes this is another part of the chap. in which moses speaks not of those seducing false prophets , nor the clandestine seducers , but of those who yielded to their seducements , particularly of those who publickly to the view of all are seduced , and being in publick order as a city , rest in that apostasie , by the publick authoritie of men falling from god , and openly defending that impietie . so deut. . from verse . to verse . sets downe a law for putting to death those who are idolaters and apostates simply , though they never went about to entice others : * iunius upon this . c. observes that this law differs from that in the chapt . the eleven first verses , because there moses speaks of apostates who are dogmatists and enticers to apostasie ; but here of idolaters simply . in deut. . from verse . to verse . there is a law that in ecclesiastical cases in matters of religion , as well as civil , upon going from the lower iudicatories to the supreme to the high priest with the colledge of priests , the man that would doe presumptuously and would not hearken unto the priest , even that man should die , which was in other cases then blasphemie , apostasie , prophecying falsly : for it appears by the scope of that place and the stream of all interpreters , that in too hard matters for inferior courts , they should goe to the high ecclesiastical synedrion , and whoever presumptuously disobeyed their sentence according to the law , though in other things then the forenamed blasphemie , &c as appears by this place verse . . speaking of the law indefinitely with that * chr. . , , , . compared together , mentioning what cause soever shal come to you of your brethren that dwell in their cities between law and commandement , statutes and judgements , should be put to death , the ground of which putting to death here commanded , was not only from the nature of these sins against the first table of the highest forme as apostasie blasphemie and such like , but for other sinnes in points of religion , though lesser , when the sentence and resolution of the high priest with his colledges was presumptuously disobeyed , so that the punishing of wilful scorneful contempt of supreme ecclesiasticall government , determining doubts and controversies according to the word of god , though in other cases , then apostasie , blasphemie , prophecying falsly , is here commanded : but having spoken so much of this deut. . already in p. . , , , , , , . i shal not enlarge further , only i shal take my leave of this scripture by adding a passage out of master cottons late book against mr. williams in way of answer to an evasion of his , that the capital punishment prescribed against the presumptuous rejection of the sentence of the highest court in israel , was a figure of excommunication in the church of christ : unto which master * cotton replyes , that law is of moral equity in all nations and in all ages : hee that shall presumptuously appeale from , or rise up against the cheifest or highest court in a free state , is guilty , laesae majestatis publicae , and therefore as a capital offender to be censured in any free common-wealth ; and certainly if that part of the law in deut. . of presumptuously appealing from , or rising against the sentence of the cheifest and highest court in a free state being punished with death , be of universal and perpetual equitie , then punishing so far at least , as to restraine those who presumptuously rise up and contemn the sentence of the highest ecclesiastical iudicature in a church going according to the word of god , is of universall and perpetual equitie too , and the command of god in that text for punishing , is against the man that will not hearken unto the priest , as well as he that will not hearken unto the judge . deut. . . sets downe a law , that the * prophet which shal presume to speake a word in gods name , which he commanded him not to speak , shal die , as well as hee that shall speake in the name of other gods : which place of scripture proves expresly against hagiomastix that other prophets , besides those that came in the name of false gods , and with other false doctrine then that , let us goe after other gods which thou hast not known and let us serve them , were to be put to death . the command is indefinite concerning speaking any word in gods name which he commanded not to speak , which must needs extend further then a prophet prophecying only of turning to another god : for there were many false doctrines and false worships against the jewish religion , besides that of apostasie to other gods : again the scope of the words and several phrases , as if the thing follow not nor come to passe , thou shalt not be afraid of him , show t is meant of other doctrine then saying , let us goe after other gods , namely of doctrine foretelling of some things to come ; whereas enticing to goe and serve other gods is de praesenti . learned * iunius writing on this place , showes that the prophecies here spoken of are different from those in deut. . , , , , . they being of faith , but these of facts and events , which are not foretold particularly from the canon of the scripture , but only from the speciall revelation of god. ainsworth in his annotations upon the place showes v. . the prophet there speaking of things , is meant of praedictions foretelling things to come , as also he reckons up severall sorts of false prophets , others then the false prophet spoken of deut. . , . the false prophet is to be strangled to death , although he prophecie in the name of the lord , and neither addeth nor diminisheth , whether he prophecieth that which he hath not heard by propheticall vision , or who so hath heard the words of his fellow prophet and saith that his word was said unto him , and he prophecieth thereby ; hee is a false prophet , and is to be strangled to death . and t is evident by jerem. . , , , , , . in the priests and prophets proceeding against jeremiah pretending him to be a false prophet , and therefore to be put to death , for saying this house shall bee like shiloh , and this city shall be desolate without an inhabitant ; whereas jeremiah still makes his defence , the lord sent me to prophecie against this house , and against this city all the words that yee have heard , that other false prophets were to be put to death , then those who taught men to worship other gods , upon which law they would have put jeremiah to death , against whom they never so much as suggested that he caught revolt from the lord , and worshipping strange gods. deut. . , , , . gives a ground in case of private seducing to revolt , upon proofe , to punish with death , or in case of perjurie , testifying falsly upon oath against one for seducing , a sinne against the first table too , to doe the like , both which showes other persons for matters of religion may be punished , then the false prophet spoken of in deut. . ● . viz. private seducers to apostasie and perjured persons , of which place of scripture , let the reader see what i have said before in this tractate , page . and further consult junius in his analytical explication of deut. . where we shall find that both wayes the matter here spoken of , is belonging to the first table and religion : if the accusation be true , t is enticing secretly to apostasie ; if false t is matter of religion because the oath of god is set to it , especially in the cause of apostasie , and therefore the priests in that an oath is a point of religion , are commanded to be present , and to take cognizance of it . and by the way least this place may be thought to favor the priests enquiring by vrim , for the resolving of the controversie , because t is said , then both the men between whom the controversie is , shall stand before the lord , before the priests and the iudges , i shall to what i have already answered to this place pag. . adde a passage out of * junius to show the contrary , the parties between whom the controversie is , are commanded in these words to stand befor jehovah , that is not before the temple of the lord , but before iudges given of the lord , before whom when men appeare they are said to stand before the lord , and whom consulting with they are said to consult the lord , exod. . dent. . the verse also next following showes it cannot be meant of the judgement of vrim , for the resolution of it depends upon the iudges making diligent inquision verse . that is their questioning and searching into the parties and all circumstances , whereas if it had been by vrim , it would have been attributed to the priests , rather then the judges , and it would have come from god , without that diligent inquisition and exact enquiring of men , as the words imply . so junius on the place saith . but the knowledge and judgement of this thing properly belongs to the judges , and therefore to the judges only the diligent enquiring , and thorough searching , out is principally commanded . lastly , zach. . , . god by the prophet showes that in the dayes of the gospel prophecying falsly as distinct from idolatrie ( for so t is made and also i wil cause the prophets ) is to be punished bodily ( which text that t is both meant of the time under the gospel , and to be understood litterally of civil outward punishment by those in power and authoritie , and not figuratively and spiritually , that i may not anticipate my selfe , nor create trouble to the reader to read the same thing twice , i shall by the grace of god prove in the . thesis , where i shall at large speak of that scripture and take of hagiomastix's evasions , and whither i refer the reader ) now by prophets there and those who prophecie and speak lies in the name of the lord are not meant only prophets whose doctrine is to go & worship false gods , but al sorts of false phets . . illiterate mechanick men , who run but are not sent and that whether they preach true or false , which that they are included the fift verse showes , because when the false prophets spoken of shall repent and be ashamed , among the rest one is brought in , saying , i am no prophet : i am an husbandman , for man taught me to keep cattell from my youth . . prophets who take upon them in the name of the lord , as by revelation from god to foretell things to come , such prophets as are spoken of in deut. . . ezek. . , . jerem. . . . . such who preach false doctrines and heresies wresting the scriptures to maintaine them , though they doe not formally teach another god and christ , neither pretend to speak by the inspiration of some deitie , but only by perverting the scriptures , which is a speaking lyes in the name of the lord : now that heretieks and false teachers are understood in this place of scripture as well as apostates , besides the judgement of many learned and orthodox interpreters , as a galvin b ari●s montanus , c gualther d fabritius , e diodate , f annotations of english divines , there are these reasons . . all such are meant who speak lyes in the name of the lord , and that is made formalis ratio why not live , and to be thrust thorow , for thou speakest lies in the name of the lord. now false doctrines and heresies are speaking lyes , cald lyes in many places of scriptures tim. . . thes . . . revel . . . and fables tim. . . and when men pretend god hath revealed them unto them by inspiration , or urge the scriptures to make them good , this is to speake lyes in the name of the lord : hence calvin upon this place gives this reason that t is cleere the prophet zacharie speaks altogether of false teachers , because of those words , for thou speakest lyes in the name of the lord. . the word in this text used viz. nebüm , and translated prophets , does not only signifie prophets as arias montanus observes upon that place , but foolish speakers and vaine talkers ; such namely who are the cunning devisers of vaine discourses , and by the subtil illusious of words doe catch the people ; such as peter speaks of , pet. . false teachers among the people who with fained words deceive , & among others such especially who when they are confuted by learned men by plain places of scripture being destitute of all abilitie and means by which to defend them errors , that they may delude weak people , insolently hoast they have the spirit , all their discourses being full of the boasting of the spirit , their prayers , disputations , speeches to the people all full of that , for which they thinke they should be more beleeved then for all reason , testimonies , imitating therein mahomet that prince of hereticks , who when be could not prove the things he taught , then he fled to the authoritie of the spirit , saying the spirit revealed those things to him . now all sorts of hereticks and false teachers besides those prophets who say let us goe after other gods , are vain talkers and deceivers as they of the circumcision and others tit. . . , in this place is understood hereticks and false teachers , as well as false prophets who teach the following after other gods , from the effects that follow upon the thrusting thorow in the . . . verses : so gualther upon the place saith , that it ought to be understood of false teachers , out of what followes it shall be manifest , as from saying , i am no prophet , i am an but bandman , for man taught me to keep cattell from my youth , &c. that is they shall ingenuously confessé their ignorance that they ought to be sent to the plaw-taile , and to keep cattel rather then to continue any longer in the ministrie of the church : and this is fulfilled in our age in many papists , who have left many fat livings , and preferments to embrace the pure doctrine of the gospel , and ●●bet in the church of christ by the labor of their hands to get their living , then in the tents of anti-christ to enjoy the greatest means . now papists and such others however they are false teachers & ven● corrupt unsound doctrine , yet they are not of those who deny the true god and christ , and perswade to serve strange gods : so that by all these places of scripture opened , wee may see fully proved , against hagiomastixs assertion , by warrant of scripture , many corruptions in matters of religion , besides false prophets publickly teaching apostasie to false gods , outwardly and bodily punished , as private seducers ( though they pretend not to be prophets ) as persons seduced not seducing , as those who would not hearken to , but contemne the sentence of the supreme ecclesiasticall assembly , as hereticks and false teachers ; and whoever would see more of these instances of magistrates punishing for corruptions of religion in points of wil-worship , sabboth breaking , &c , let them look back to page . , of this present tractate . secondly , supposing there had been no other commands nor examples for magistrates under the old testament putting to death for matters of religion , then those named by hagiomast . of false prophets , apostates , blasphemers , which is not true ( as i have now shown in this first answer and page . of this present book ) yet these were sufficient grounds to justifie the magistrates punishing in like cases , and that upon these reasons . . in all laws and commands for the better knowing their nature what they require and would have , t is good looking into the causes and reasons of them , why such lawes were given by god : from the cause of making the law , the mind of the law-giver is to be understood : t is a knowne maxime ratio legis est mens legis , the reason of the law , is the mind of the law ; now the reasons and causes of both those commands , both against false prophets as also private seducers in * deut. . from . to the are . . the seeking to turne men away from the lord their god , and thrusting them out of the way which the lord commanded them to walke in . the putting away the evill from the midst of them , that others may hear and fear and do no more any such wickednes among them ; these are the spirit and substance of these commands , that those are to bee punished who when they fal from god themselves , tempt others to the like defection , and therefore are to bee made examples , that others may not doe the like ; and therefore whoever seeks to turne men away from the lord god , and thrust them out of the way which the lord hath commanded them to walke in , they come within the compasse of these commandements although they doe not tempt to goe after the false gods of that time , and those countries , which the false prophets then enticed them to ; for the reason of the law is expressed in a universall forme against those who seek to turne men away from the lord their god , and to thrust them out of the way which the lord commanded them to walke in , as * beza observes , and therefore to be in force against those in generall who doe fal from the true religion , and enticers also , which is done other wayes then by falling to the strange gods in those times that moses writ in ; yea the command it selfe verse . in the letter , mentions as speaking to turne men away from the lord their god , so to thrust out of the way , which the lord their god commanded them to walke in , which certainly in the scripture sense and acception includes other apostafie and idolatrie , then of other gods ; and i aske whether israels worshipping the golden calfe , and the ten tribes worshipping the golden calfe at dan and bethel , though they worshipped iehovah in and by them , were not a going out of their way which the lord their god commanded them to walke in . secondly , it is common and usual , that in the commands concerning the worship of god and in other places of scripture where the worship of god is spoken of , there are synecdochicall speeches , intending and containing many other things of like kind and nature although not formally and literally expressed . eliah whe he complained of the whole covenant of god violated by the israelites , expresses it by a part , * thrown down thine altars and slaine thy prophets . the prophet isaiah prophecying of egypts embracing the true religion , saith , egypt shall sweare to the lord of hosts , under that expressing the whole worship of god. the commands of god are exceeding large and broad , comprehending many things under one : * rivet in his explication of the decalogue among other rules hee gives for understanding of the commandements , hath this , that in all the precepts of the decalogue we must acknowledge a synecdec●e , in which one kind being propounded , all under the same genus are understood . but that that synecdoche may be rightly explained , before all things the scope of the law-giver in every precept is to be enquired after : namely , what he signifies pleases and displeases him : for then we shall aime rightly and refer all things to their true end ; now in these commands deut. . from v. . to the . if we doe but wel observe the scope and end of the law-giver , viz how teaching defection from the lord god highly displeases him we shall plainly see the synecdoche in these commands , under that turning away by those false gods , other turning away by false gods of another sort , and false worships of the true god by images and idols , highly provoking him . of * defection from god there are many dangerous and damnable wayes , divers publick testimonies of it , of which though one or two principall of the times and places then may be only particularly named in the laws , yet such that are worse , and other as bad must needs be meant too , especially when the reason of the law speaking of defection is delivered in a general way , as t is in this instance of deut. . but of this the reader may see more in page . . of this treatise . thirdly , under the old testament lawes , commanding magistretes to punish false prophets , idolaters blasphemers , are contained false teachers and hereticks , who preach doctrines destroying the foundation , and blasphemers against the glory of christ , although they be not such false prophets and apostates as wholly deny god and christ , and fall to the gods of the heathens , which besides the judgement of many learned divines , as calvin , beza , zanchius , bullinger , peter martyr , philip melancton , iunius , zepperus , with divers others upon that question , stil quotiug those texts to prove that hereticks and false teachers ought to be punished by the civil magistrate , appears further thus . . among the * iewes a false prophet used to signifie every false teacher as * bergius shows , and i have already shown out of calvin , arias monianus and others that by the false prophets in zacharie are meant false teachers , and that the word in the hebrew nebiim signifies foolish and vaine talkers , that with fained words make merchandize of people , as well as prophets ; and some divines show that the name of prophet in the generall signification was taken not only for them that foresold things to come , but for such who professed themselves interpreters of the law and word of god , though falsly . . there is a great agreement and analogie made by the holy-ghost , between the false prophets under the old testament , and the false teachers and hereticks under the new ; between the heathenish apostasie and idoaltrie of strange gods under the old , and christian idolatrie , the worshipping of the true god , by images , saints , and the beleeving of false doctrines destructive to the faith , as these places of scripture show pet. . . but there were false prophets also among the people , even 〈◊〉 there shall be false teachers among you , where peter resembles them together , making the false teachers under the new such men as the false prophets under the old ; hence in many places of the new testament , * hereticks and false teachers who broached strange doctrines in christian religion , still professing to hold christ , are cald by the name of false prophets , and popish teachers who hold christ , the scriptures , &c , cald false prophets , as matth. . . the false prophets there , must needs be meant false teachers , who doe not deny god and christ , and not master goodwins false prophets , as their sheeps clothing spoken of in the text showes . so matth. . . . the false prophets were such men in pretences , in so much that if it were possible they would deceive the very elect . so john . . christians are called upon to try doctrines , because many false prophets are gone out into the world , that is , false teachers broaching strange doctrines , and thus the anti-christian faction is cald the false prophets in divers places of the revelation of saint iohn , hence cald dreamers iude . as those in deut. . . compared to janues and iambres , to balaam that false prophet and such like , tim. . . pet. . . iude . and thus rome after turned christian , but worshipping the true god after a false manner , being corrupt in the faith of christ , is called by the same name and the same things affirmed of it for worshipping divils and for plagues , as of heathenish babylon that worshipped false gods , as many places in the revelation of saint iohn show . . hereticks and false teachers who yet professe to beleeve in god creator of heaven and earth , and in iesus christ , to hold also the scriptures the word of god , may yet ●each such doctrins that they may be justly stiled false prophets , apostates , idolaters , blasphemers , as divers of the ancient hereticks , mevandrians , gnosticks , manichees , with others , and sundry of the later sort , papists , the libertines against whom calvin writes , socinians , familists . the apostles in many places of their writings speaking of hereticks and false teachers in their times , and prophecying of those in after times , both the popish faction and the sectarian , speak of them as apostates , anti-christs , false prophets , seducers , deceivers , idolaters , blasphemers , and their doctrines and wayes as apostafie , idolatrie , blasphemie , worshipping of devils , seducing and such like , as these and many other such like places of scripture show , thes . . . tim. . . tim. . . . tim. . . . pet. . . iohn . . , , , , . iohn . . , , . epist . of iohn . , . iude verse . revel . . . revel . . . revel . . , . revel . . , . revel . . , . revel . . , . revel . . . it were easie for me to show how many of the hereticks in the three first centuries that professed the name of christ , and therefore not cald infidels , might justly be termed apostates , false prophets , idolaters , blasphemers : junius observes upon deuteronomy . that hereticks are distinguished divers wayes , heresie is either totall as that of the menandrians , gnosticks , &c , or partial departing only in part from the doctrine of faith : now i suppose totall heresie , will easily be acknowledged apostafie ; but i will only instance in some hereticks and false teachers of the latter times , papists , socinians , antitrinitarians , anabaptistis . are not papists grosse idolaters in severall particulars , as our divines have unanswerably showen in their writings against them ? are not socinians also apostates , grosse idolaters , who make the christian faith in the object of faith and worship not to bee distinguished from the faith and worship of heathens , iewes , and mahumetans , and besides one god maker of all things , worship christ with divine worship whom yet they hold to be but a meere man : out of the apostasie , impietie , and base idolatrie of the sociaians , in what respects apostates overthrowing all fundamentals of faith , and agreeing with iewes , turks , and the old hereticks pault●ni and others , by epiphanius called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ; worse then papists and their idolatrie more evid●nt and gr●sse then the papists , i referre the reader to the theses of learned * voetius de necessitate & utilitate dogmatis de sa●st● trinitate , who fully and excellently proves all these particulars . in the ancient constitutions of gratian , valentinian , theodosius , martian , iustinian , antitrinitarians , are said iewishly and apostatically to contradict the trinitie and the name of christians is denied them ; are not anti-trinitatians as paul best that hath belched out so many reproachfull speeches against christ and the holy-ghost , blasphemers in a high measure ? are not they who doe not only speak evill of the trinitie , but teach others so to doe greater blasphemers then those spoken of in levit. . ? are not divers anabaptists who have broached false doctrines , and foretold divers things to come as the day of judgement to be on such a day , such a city or country to be destroyed on such a day , such a citie or kingdome to be given them of god , and that by affirming they spake by revelation and immediate inspiration of god , false prophets as well as those in deut. . . deut. . , ? in a word i shall conclude this with a passage out of * beza de haereticis a magistratu puniendis , brought by way of answer to a like objection against deut. . &c , those lawes are not now in force , because there is no man now a false prophet , according to moses definition , that is , who foretels any thing to come and teaches to worship other gods : i answer that the mind of the law-giver is to be understood from the cause of making the law , because he hath spoken to turne away from the lord your god : now there are divers publick declarations of this defection , of which although the principall only , and those which most commonly fall out be named in the laws , yet the very reason of the law is expressed in a universall forme , and therefore in the general oúght to be in force against those who doe fall from the true religion and sollicite others to defection , whom in a generall word we call now hereticks , not false prophets or dreamers of dreams , or sacrificers to other gods : because that those out ward ceremonies and those gifts of prophecie are ceased . but though they be ceased , notwithstanding neither defection , nor the punishment of it is ceased . moreover i say , those who interpret the holy scripture wrongfully , withdraw men from the true worship of god , and so perswade them to the worship of other gods . for t is necessary that all doctrine which speaks of the worship of god , if it be not of god it proceeds from the devil ; therefore he that receives it intertains the devil , and he that perswades the receiving it drawes away from god ; for paul cals the doctrines of forbidding meats and marriage the doctrines of devils . fourthly , in the commands given by god either against such and such sins , or for punishing in such and such sins , without any stretching of the commands at all , or interpretations at large , many things not named must necessarily be contained , as under generals the particulars , as under one kind other kinds of a higher nature , or of the like nature , as under the male , the female also , and other such , or else many common received rules given by divines for interpretation of the decalogue and scripture are to be rejected ; yea many things that are evill and abominable are not forbidden in the law of god : there are many things may be instan●ed in out of the new testament of which god showes his dislike , which yet in the letter and particularly by name are not forbidden in any of the commands of the old testament , as rom. . . with divers others that might be named ; and there are many abominations that have been , are , and may be committed even of things against the light of nature that are neither in the old testament , nor new forbidden particularly ; and yet certainly these things are forbidden directly and properly in the commandements , and the commandements are not stretcht , nor wyre-drawn by those who alledge such commands against such practises : if the scriptures must set down particularly by name all the kinds and degrees of evils , with the particular manner and way of doing them , which the corrupt nature of man is capable of committing , and al particulars of all kinds and manner of duties , with all particular cases about punishments , and all kinds and degrees of punishment belonging to all kind of offences that may fall out , and that both in civil and ecclesiastical censures , with the particular way and manner of proceeding in them all , i suppose some hundreds of great volumes would not containe them all , but that it might be said in this case as t is iohn . the last verse of the things which iesus did , that if they should be written every one the world it selfe could not containe the books that should be written . and if there must not be an extension and interpretation of commands , so as to hold such commands and places of scripture , forbid or enjoyne some things not particularly named , how will hagiom . prove many things practised by papists and prelaticall men to be against the second command or against any command , as the making crosses for religion , holy-water , saints , reliques , bowing at the name of jesus , holy-dayes , surplices , altar-clothes , with a hundred other ceremouies and inventions of men in the worship of god , are these literally and by name forbidden in the second command or any other ? and may not the papists and prelates in all the texts of scripture brought against their wil-worship , and inventions of men , say the very same to hagiomastix and his fellowes , that crosses , holy-dayes , bowing at the name of iesus , &c , are not mentioned nor touched in any one word of those laws under the old testament given against idolatrie : but if any one will goe about to draw these words unto their crosses , &c , that cannot bee done by the proper force of the words , but as law●ers speake per extensionem latamque interpretationem . and it would be first well considered of , whether every law does admit of such extensions , and if not every one , which of them then does admit , and wherefore , and whether in the second commandement there are those things for which an extension is to be made ? again , i desire hagiomastix and his compeers to resolve me these questions , seeing there must be no extension of that command in deut. . , . nothing else commanded but what is in the letter of the law , whether a false prophetesse that should arise and endeavour to perswade to the worship of a false god ; and that by affirming she spake by the inspiration of some deitie , and that her saying's were to be esteemed oracles , were not to be put to death by virtue of this command , as well as the false prophet ? and yet a prophe●esse is not in the text . whether that command exod. . , . of the owner of the pit into which his neighbours oxe or asse fell , making good the oxe or asse and giving money to the owner of them , did not bind as much if a horse or a sheep fell , into it ? and yet the words of the law are only the oxe or the asse , and not a horse or sheep . whether that command concerning the putting to death those children that did curse or strike their parents , though it expressed not in the letter death for killing of them , did not include much more death upon those who killed their parents ? and so i might instance in many more particulars ; but for a conclusion of this fourth answer , i shall end with a passage out of * maccovius in a disputation of his de lege judiciali , that the perfection of the judicial laws require , that we should hold no case can fal out , which cannot from the analogie of the law ( for of like there is the same judgement ) be determined . from the analogie and similitude of things t is easie to understand , that the same law and right is to be observed , referring the reader for more satisfaction to page . , . of this present tractate . fifthly , as to that brought by hagiomastix and the rest , that the law of god made against false prophets and worshippers of false gods was not intended against those who otherwise held the law of god was to be kept , but were infected with some error , because in former times among the jewes who were affected with a vebement love and zeale towards their law , hereticks notwithstanding were tolerated , and particularly the sadduces , these were not exempted from being magistrates : the scribes and pharisees also that taught many dangerous errors , yet were in great honor in this church and state , i answer , . hagiomastixs foundation upon which he raises this argument is unfound , for the scribes pheri●ees and others in place , in the time of tolerating the sadduces , herodians and other hereticks ( which was in christs time ) were not zealous of the law of god , as is evident by many of christs sermons reproving them for want of love and zeale to the law , and the true worship of god , matth. . from the . verse to the end of the chapter , matth. . from verse . to the . matth. . from verse . to the . verse . they were zealous indeed of the traditions of the elders , and of their owne superstitions and devices , but not of the law of god , they corrupted and transgressed the lawes of god by their traditions and hypocrisies , but had no true love nor zeale to the law nor the jewish religion , and therefore no wonder they tolerated sadduces , herodians , &c , but of this point how religion was then mightily corrupted and all things out of order , i have spoken before in p. . of this treatise , and so wil not tautologize . . can hagiomastix upon second thoughts think the practise of the rulers of the jewes and the people that followed them in a time so desparately corrupt as that was , when church and state hastened to destruction , and all things were amisse , a safe ground for christian . magistrates to walke by , and not rather judge they did amisse in that as well as in other things , and that their practice is not a probable rule to be followed : i shall mind him of one particular instanced in by himselfe viz , their not hindring the sadduces and other hereticks , from coming to the temple or the synagogues , which if it were well done t is by this argument as unlawful for the church to censure her members with ecclesiasticall censures for any hereticall tenets , as for the civil magistrate to punish , and so all church censures for heresies and false doctrines are overthrown as well as civil ; whereas i took it for granted , church censures in matters of religion had been lawfull , viz. a spiritual weapon suitable , by their owne confession , for a spirituall evill heresie , and m. s. a good friend of hagiomastixs in answer to that argument against toleration , revel . . . yeelds it , saying , that 's meant of church censures , but not of bodily outward punishment by the magistrate ; and therefore i think the practise of the people and their rulers suffering sadduces and all other hereticks to be no better argument for justification of a toleration , then their practise of crucifying christ a justification of that . . besides that all may see what you and your party aime at in speaking of the pharisees and saduces being in honour in the jewish state magistrates and bearing civill offices , not a bare toleration of your consciences , but that you may be in places of honour , government and profit : this gives us a cleare reason of the toleration of errors in those times , namely that scribes , pharisees and saduces were in places of power and government , had a great interest in church and state , and therefore no wonder if they would tolerate themselves and their owne opinions : can you think it a good argument that adulterers and theeves ought to be tolerated , because adulterers and theeves having power , suffer such to goe unpunished : or can you thinke it reason to say many papists , anabaptists , being in places of government suffered papists , anabaptints , therefore t is the duty of the godly magistrate to suffer them and all other hereticks : pray master hagiomastix resolve me this question , seeing scribes , pharisees , and such like were magistrates and in places of power and honour , who should punish pharisees and saduces for their errors and dangerous opinions ? sixthly , as to that last clause that christ did never charge this church or state , or those that bore office in either with ●in or unfaithfulnesse for not proceeding against the sadduces , pharisees , &c. in regard of their errors , either by imprisonment or death , and yet christ did teach and presse upon men all and all manner of duties . i answer , first , how is that proved he never did : can the patrons of toleration minus celsus senensis , hagiomastix , &c make it follow by saying t is no where written in the gospels , and therefore he never reproved them , can they reason from the scriptures negatively in matters of fact , such things never were , because the● are not spoken of ? what think● they of that axiome , anon dicto ad non fact●● no● valet consequentia , were not there many things that christ did which were not written , iohn . the last verse ? but if they will reply , yes in some things , but not in matters of judgement , righteou●nesse such a weighty matter as this is made to be ; i rejoyne that in many weighty matters of the law and justice , christ either spoke not particularly of them , or if he did , they are not written , neither can be found in the gospels more then this of punishing sadduces and other hereticks in matter of religion : i might instance in many things unquestionably forbidden or commanded by god in the morall law , that are not particularly spoken of in the gospels , which yet from hence to reason against them wery vere bad divinity . what instances can be given of christs giving any commands to those in place to punish for murther , adulterery , theft , more then for idolatrie , blasphemie , here●ie ? . hagiomastix brings in the church again , as well as the state , surely he is for a toleration of all heresies , blasphemies , &c , in the church as well as the state , to have no man punished for his religion with any censure of admonition , excommunication , or non-communion : in his m. s. he was for spiritual censures , but in these . yeers last past the man is well improved ( belike ) to reason against any church censure as well as state punishment : and by the way i desire the reader to observe whatever reason in the wisedome of god there might be , that nothing is set down in the gospels of christs charging the state with sin for not proceeding against the sadduces , &c , that cannot be the reason to show the unlawfulnes of magistrates punishing hereticks , because hagiom . confesses the same of the church , that christ charged not the church nor the officers with sin , for not proceeding against the sadduces , and yet i suppose hagiomastix will not openly professe t is a good argument that no church censures may be used against any heretick ; however i am sure many of his compeers in handling the question distinguish of a toleration and censures , granting ecclesiastical censures though denying civil , and i am sure if christs never charging the church nor those that bore office in her with sin , for not proceeding against the sadduces , be no good argument to take away all church censures , neither is it to lay wast all magistrates punishing in such cases . . christ did to the scribes , pharisees & sadduces speak and reason against their errors , yea reproved and threatned them for those errors , which also is granted by hagiomastix , in doing of which he did equivalently and really presse upon them the suppressing and punishing of heresies in persons under their power , whilst he spake to men in authoritie and denounced the judgements of god because of them : he that preaches to a prince against idolatrie and showes the evils that will come upon a king and his kingdome for it , preaches to him to restraine idolatrie , though he doe not particularly in expresse words call upon him not to suffer any man to practice idolatrie ; and therefore christ speaking to the scribes and pharisees , the rulers and elders , that knew the laws of god , how magistrates in israel were to punish false teachers , in speaking so against false prophets , hereticks and sectaries , as sadduces , &c , that was a charging them ( such a thing being spoken to such men ) to doe their duties against them , which by the law was more then if private persons , and being spoken to qua such , as scribes , &c , was a commanding them according to their places to proceed against them : for t is a rule among divines that in many things recorded in scriptures , which are delivered only in common and in general , they are to be taken by every one according to their relations and places , by the magistrates according to their relation , the ministers according to theirs , and the people according to their sphere , of which many instances may be given in the new testament . . supposing it could be proved , christ never reproved the jewish church and state for suffering the sadduces , &c , yet it followes not magistrates therefore should tolerate hereticks , and sectaries , and that both , because gods declaration of his mind in other parts of scripture , though not in the gospel is a sufficient , as also because there might be some particular reasons proper to the iewish state , as that christ saw the iewish state and magistracie it selfe that then was to be leavened and corrupted with those errors and opinions , to be either sadduces , pharisees , scribes , herodians , and such like , so that to have spoken against toleration , and for punishing sadduces , &c had been to have spoken to the state , not to have suffered it selfe , as if one should preach to the parliament now , not to tolerate but to punish themselves : so was it for christ to have urged those commands in deut. . &c , and those examples of iosiah , nehemiah , &c upon the iewish state then . . that in the times of christs preaching , the civil power of the common-wealth of the jewes , was much weakned , if not wholly taken away from them by the romans , of which i have spoken something before page . and doe now adde , that the iewes had no power at all of capitall punishments then , and therefore to what end should christ charge them with those lawes of putting false prophets &c , to death , for full proo●e of which i refer the reader to master gillespies aarons rod blossoming , book . chapt . . page . , , , , , . who learnedly proves that point both from scripture and the testimonies of many learned writers , who have written of the iewish antiquities and customes , and answers the contrary objections . . christ knew that church and common-wealth were to be certainly shortly dissolved , the christian church to be set up , and though he warned the people of those errors and wayes , and denounced the judgements of god against them , yet because he knew the purpose of god was to destroy the iewish common-wealth , he might not speake for that and the other reasons forenamed to the magistrates , as otherwise he would , of which the reader may read more in pag. . of this present book . and now for putting a period to this . thesis , and to all the answers given by me to those evasions brought against ●hose old testament lawes , of deut. . deut. . and the rest , i shall briefly adde things . first , to cleare a little further some passages of deut. . secondly , show the slightnesse and weaknesse of hagiomast . exceptions against those old testament laws . thirdly , show the excessive pride and folly of the man in boasting and glorying in such poor & weak things as he brings against the vindicator of the ordinance for preventing the groth and spreading of heresies , in sect. . , , , , , , . first , as i shall adde two places more out of moses law before omitted in the beginning of the . thesis , to prove the magistrates power of punishing in matters of the first table , viz deut. . , , , . and numb . . , . the former in case of aposta●ie , the latter in case of * blaspheming god , so to all i have said of deut. . i desire the reader to observe that god having in the former chapter commanded the worshipping of the ture god , and forbidden that of idols , ( which unquestionably is morall , ) this . chap. is fitly added to it as an appendix , in which god gives direction for removing the impediments opposite to his worship commanded , particularly he commands the authors of apostasie , not to be hearkned unto nor tolerated , but to be punished with death ; and for that end that such who are obstina●e and will not be amended , nor regard their own salvation , may be hindred at least from being an impediment to the salvation of others , and the common grace of god , which removall of impediments with the end laid down , cannot but be morall also . junius in his analysis upon this chapter showes t is an appendix to the worship of god , and zepperus in his tractate of the mosaical lawes , saith , that this of defection by false prophets is an appendix of the first commandement . now as the chapter it selfe cleers it , and divers learned * divines writing upon the chapter shows this . chap. is not all one commandement but there are three distinct commands in this chapter , the first of the false prophet publickly teaching apostasie in the five first verses , the second of the clandestine seducer , in the six verses following , the third of a publick defection of a whole citie : which being observed & wel considered , besides what i have said already to hagiomastixs answer that the command in deut. . concerning the putting of false prophets and seducers to death , cannot bind , because then whole cities must be destroyed , cattel , &c , fully answers all he speaks in this kind , because that latter part of the chapter upon which he vapors so , is a distinct command quite another thing , from that in the first verse to the . as also from that of the . to the . so that t is a meere fallacie to confound lawes which are distinct , to speak all along of that . chapt . as one law and command ( for so he does page . . make them all one ) fallacia compositionis is easily discovered by dividing and distinguishing the commands which god hath made distinct ; and therefore the one command may be in force , and wee neither add , nor diminish ought from it , although the other which is no part of it may not , but be more proper to the iewes , and only in some particular cases ( of which i shall speak more presently ) and among many differences that might be observed between the two former commands in the first . verses and this about a citie , this is plainly one , whereas these are commands founded expresly upon generall reasons common to all because he hath spoken to turne you away from the lord your god , &c , this is not spoken of at all in the case of the citie , but t is grounded upon a reason peculiar to the iews , as some learned men observe from v. . if thou shalt heare say in one of thy cities which the lord thy god hath given thee to dwell there , the foundation of that command being ceremoniall , because it hath a particular respect , to tha● land the lord gave them to dwell in , god being in a certaine singular kind of manner the lord of that land : upon which place of scripture junius writing , showes the destroying of the citie utterly , with the devoting of all things therein to destruction , to be ceremoniall and so not to take place now , yea it was not of force among the iewes themselves , but only in one particular case , when a citie openly by publick authoritie defended and maintained apostasie from god ; and therefore though in a citie there had been hundreds of apostates whether publick or private seducers , which all were to have suffered by vertue of the former lawes of the first . verses of this chapter , yet so long as openly by publick authoritie of that citie these were not defended nor maintained , although these particular apostates were commanded to be put to death , all the inhabitants among whom they lived were not commanded to be put to death , muchlesse the cattell and all things within it to be burnt with fire ; and the reader for his further satisfaction herein , besides what i have written of this in page . , . may consult with junius in his analyt . explication on deut. . . . who resolves the question and case thus , that in this chapter there are three things concurr , the morall right , the ceremoniall , and the political : that which is of morall right that according to the substance remains , and therefore it followes that who foe is guilty of so great wickednesse and obstinacie as moses describes in this chapter ought to receive the reward and punishment of his 〈◊〉 , and that by the law of god and nature , whose minister and helper the judicial and political law is , * but that which is ceremonial and is in the last part of this chapter , where god commands to destroy the citie , and devote all things in it to a curse , hath no place now , because the foundation of this command is ceremoniall . for the political and judicial law , which hath its foundation partly in the divine and naturall law and partly in the ceremoniall , it followes from thence whatsoever in the judicial law , simply belongs to the preservation of the naturall and moral law ought according to the substance to be observed : but whatsoever things are of ceremonial right , to them the magistrate is not bound , but the publick safety and prevention of so great evils , laying aside ceremonies , according to natural and moral right ought to be procured and sought for by him . secondly , i might manifest the flightnesse and weaknesse of hagiomastixs evasions of those old testament lawes , by drawing them briefly into one , and showing the several fallacies and paralogismes one after another , as arguing falsa suppositione , adicto secundum quid , a particulari ad vniversale , fallacia compositionis et divisionis , &c , as also had i wanted matter , i could have run out in flourishing words , and at the end of every reply to his evasions have stood triumphing over him , as he does over the authors of the vindica●ion , saying , o independents and sectaries , if your teachers , yea your great rabbi and oracle bring such poore and weak stuffe for their tenets and way , you had need to take heed and beware of them , least the blind lead the blind , and both ful into the ditch ; but i consider i am handling a great controversie in divinitie a point about conscience , and that t is not comely to speak of it in a light and scossing way , and therefore shall not offer to contend with master john goodwin in that way , contenting my selfe to have aimed at hard arguments and fore words . thirdly , i might take occasion to set out the ●olly and horrible pride of the man in boasting and glorying in such poore weak stuffe , and that stollen out of minus c●●su● s●●●●sis , behaving himselfe like à gloriosus miles , i might annex and fasten each of his vapouring insolent insultations over his three supposed adversaries unto each answer , by which his folly and vanitie would be made manifest to all in excessive boasting when he hath performed so little , but i will forbear to deal with him in that way , and shall conclude this . thesis , and all my answers to his evasions in speaking sadly to his conscience , ( though i much feare in this argument of libertie of conscience , he hath little conscience left , or is capable of any conviction , this being his sanctuary and protection to safegard him from the trouble and danger of al his other wicked opinions ) m. goodwin what answer wil you make to god for these pretences brought against scripture , can you think against such expresse texts , such poor shifts wil serve ? or wil hold water in the day of judgement ? what if these then prove but adams fig-leaves , meer shifts and tricks of wit to put off the word , and bee not real ? what wil you then doe for all the dishonour of god , ruine of precious souls occasioned by your means ? wil not gods wrath sweepe away these cobwebs ? i say no more , thinke upon it master goodwin and be not deceived , god is not mocked . . thesis whereas the patrons of toleration commonly plead , that all places of scripture both of examples and commands for magistrates punishing in matters of religion are only from the old testament ; and t is confessed by them that under the law before christs comming good magistrates both did and might exercise coercive power on false prophets , apostates , blasphemers , but now since the new testament t is otherwise , * it being the will and command of god that since the coming of his son the lord jesus , a permission of the most paganish , jewish , turkish , or anti-christian consciences and worships be granted to all men in all nations and countries : and they only to be fought against with that sword , which is only ( in soule matters ) able to conquer , to ●it the sword of gods spirit , the word of god ; i lay downe this thesis , that all things concerning religion and pietie constantly practised by the godly , and by god commanded under the old testament , and by him never declared to be repealed , bind as firmely under the new testament , although there be no particular command nor example a new approving them , as they did under the old , and that in such cases the comming of christ into the world , and his death are so far from giving any dispensation or libertie , that quite contrary , some things before permitted to the jewes are by christ now taken away , and all matters in reference to religion and holinesse upon the comming of christ into the world are spoken of by the scriptures as to be kept and done with greater exactnesse and strictnesse . for proof of which i lay downe these following grounds . first , that the scripture of the old testament is the canon and rule of faith and practice , as well as the scripture of the new , and that it equally belongs to christians as the books of the new : which point besides that it hath been held by the orthodox in the church of god , in all times since christ , and denied only by hereticks as the * simoniani , the * maniches , * socinians , * antinomians , * anabaptists , i shall give these reasons , . that christ and the apostles all along in the new testament prove their doctrine by the scriptures of the old testament moses and the prophets , still referring the people in all controversies of faith and practice to the scriptures of the old testament , as is evident by these places , luk. . . john . . rom. . . tim. . , , . pet. . . cum multis aliis which are all understood of the scriptures of the old testament , as besides many things in those texts showing as much , no scriptures of the new testament , being then extant , when christ gave those exhortations to search the scriptures , and when timothy was a child , of which scripture the apostle speaks , which timothy learned of a child , as chrysostome well expounds : now that was the scripture of the old testament , because the new was not as yet committed to writing , then when timothie was a child : nay further all the texts by way of scripture proo●e brought in the new testament to prove any thing in matter of faith and manners are all quoted out of the old testament , and not the new , whereupon wee see how frequently moses , the psalms , and prophets are cited by christ and his apostles ; but to my best remembrance , i doe not find in all the new testament any place of scripture brought to prove any thing from the new testament , but that one passage out of pauls epistles pet. . , . . the apostle paul tim. . . saith all scripture is given by inspiration of god , and is profitable for doctrine , for reproofe , for correction , for instruction in righteousnesse : now if all scripture be 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , then the scripture of the old testament is so to , and as given by inspiration is with all reverence to be acknowledged and received by christians : againe if all scripture be profitable for doctrine , for reproofe , for correction , for instruction of righteousnesse , therefore doctrines of faith and practises of life may be profitably fetched from thence , and when things are laid downe in the old testament , they are commanded in the scriptures , ( they being the scriptures too ) although not mentioned in the new : but who so desires to be further satisfied in this question of the scripture of the old testament being of the same authoritie with christians as that of the new , let him consult bullingers books against the anabaptists lib. . cap. . , ▪ and spanhemius his disputations against the anabaptists , de usu script . v. testaments in ecclesia christiana . secondly , every command of god made knowne in the old testament , and never afterwards repealed nor revoked by him ; nor expiring in the nature of it , is perpetual and in force : whatever god once commands til he declares either particularly that t is not his will such a law should any longer bind , or at least generally in equivalencie , obliges : so that t is no good argument , to say against a practice , as long as t is commanded in the old , this cannot be proved out of the new testament , and therefore may not be done , but rather on the contrary wee may inferre , that the silence of the new testament concerning a law expresly and clearly delivered in the old testament , is a confirmation rather then an abrogation of it or an intimation that it is expired . there are many particulars might be instanced in , some expressely commanded , and others forbidden in the old testament , which are not spoken of at all in the new testament ( unlesse in general ) that yet are held by orthodox divines , and i suppose by hagi●mastix too , binding under the new , as many degrees of marriages forbidden , usury , as magistrates putting to death murderers , and some other malefactors , with divers others that might be named : upon which occasion * master cotton answers master williams , if it be true that christ g●ve no expresse ordinance , praecept , or president of killing men by material swords for religion sake : it is as true that neither did he for any breach of civil justice , no not for murder , nor adultery . and so supposing there were no new testament proofes for the magistrates punishing apostates , blasphemers , &c. yet the old testament affording such a cloud of witnesses is testimony abundant , especially remembring what i have at large proved in divers pages of the last thesis , concerning the nature of those commands and examples recorded in the old testament , and indeed considering how clearly , largely , and importunately the magistrates power and dutie in punishing in matters of religion is set down and pressed by the holy-ghost in the old testament , it had been no wonder if nothing had been said of the new , the abundant urging in the old serving for a reason of silence in the new . but because this rule is so fully and judiciously handled in a late book , cald * sabbatum redivi●●um viz. a law instituted in the old testament , not abrogated in the new , is of perpetuall obligation though it have not expresse ●atification in the gospel . i shall referre the reader thither where he shall find many grounds brought to prove it , extracting only one passge out of the book . whatsoever law in once delivered to the church , and accordingly recorded in the law booke the holy scriptures even of the old testament , whosoever would claim exemption from it whether particular person or church , must produce some what to prove that that law is now ( under the gospel ) repealed , or at least expired , more then bare saying that it is no longer in force . it is so in the statute law of our kingdome ( and of all kingdomes ) if a man can alledge for himselfe in point of right or priviledge ( or the kings councell for the kings rights and p●erogatives ) any statute that was once made , it stands good for all purposes , unlesse they who would gainsay it , can alledge and prove that such a statute is out of date by expiration or repeale : so that the proofe lies originally upon the refuser of the law , and they that would maintaine it and urge it , need plead nothing more then the enacting of it once , till the abrogation of it can be verified ; and if it be so in the statutes of men , and the positive lawes of kingdomes , much more in those of god , whose authority in unquestionably more absolute , and whose wisedome , holinesse , justice and goodnesse , is infinitely beyond that of all princes and states in the world . . t is granted princes and magistrates under the old law before christs comming , had a coercive power in matters of religion , and did punish blasphemers , &c now . seeing they long had it , can any proofe be brought how and upon what occasion it was taken from them ? can any man shew any text out of the new testament where christ and his apostles took away this power from princes , or declared that however under the old , seducers and false prophets were to be dealt with by the civil powers , yet not under the new , but only with the word of god ? bullinger in his fifth book against the anabaptists chapter . page . pleading for magistrates power in matters of religion , speaks thus to them . are princes and magistrates of the new testament endorred with lesse spirit and power then those of the old ? or in what place have christ and his apostles removed christians princes from this power of magistrates ? whatever reasons or grounds any way or in any kind there were under the old for this power of magistrates , the very same remaine now , were errors and heresies then deadly and damnable , so they are now ? were they then spreading as a gangrene and corrupting many so they do now ? were they then hateful to god ? so they are still : were false teachers in those times unreasonable , perverse obstinate not to be convinced by words ? behold they are as froward and desparate in these ; were princes and magistrates then to be zealous of gods honor , and to serve the lord not only as private persons , but as magistrates ? so they ought to be now , and t is by the spirit of god foretold they should : now where there is the selfe same reason , there is ever the selfe same law and equity both under the law and gospel , for the further proofe of which the reader may consult master prynn● sword of christian magistracy supported pag. . , . it cannot seem reasonable that all other relations , parents , masters , husbands , should have the same authority over their children , servants , wives , under the gospel , as they had under the law , and that in spiritual things , and the christian magistrate should not : nay that the power of parents , masters , husbands , should be confirmed , strengthned and more largely set forth , ephes . . , , . ephes . . from verse . to . col. . from verse . to . pet. . , . and the power of magistrates only taken away , * musculus in his common places de magistratibus speaking of the power that fathers have over their children in matters of religion , reasons from thence that to the magistrate the supreme father of all his subjects , ( whose power is far greater then that of a father ) the care of religion more belongs then to fathers . in magistrates there is an authoritie of supereminencie excelling all , then which there cannot be a greater on earth : therefore shall not that be lawfull for such an authority and power , which is lawfull for every father in his owne house ? yea by that divine command is it not required that that should belong to the greater which belongs to the lesse , that to the publick father of the people which belongs to the private ? . god under the new testament allowes and approves of the calling of princes and magistrates , giving many expresse commands to christians of subjection and obedience to them , rom. . from verse . to . tit. . . pet. . , , . tim. . , , . the * ends and uses also for which magistrates were instituted are the same under the new testament and old , besides there is not any one text in the new testament limiting or restraining the power given them by god in the old , and therefore their calling and power must needs be the same . learned * bilson in his true difference between christian subjection and unchristian rebellion , proving the princes power and charge by gods law of deut. . , . and by the example of the godly kings of israel and judah , reaching as well unto matters of religion as other things , that the sword is given them to provide that as well true religion be maintained in their realms , as civill justice ministred , that they forbid , prevent , and punish in all their subjects not only murders , thefts and such like breaches of the second table ; but also schismes , here●ies , idolatries and other offences against the first table pertaining only to the service of god and matters of religion , answers thus the jesuits objection ( the very same evasion the sectaries have now , ) this charge concerned none but the kings of israel and iudah : that refuge doth rather manifest your folly then satisfie my reason . did , i pray you sir the comming of christ abolish the vocation of princes ? i trow not ; then their office remaining as before , per consequens , both the same precept of god to them still dureth , and also the like power to force their subjects to serve god and christ his sonne standeth in as full strength under the gospel , as ever it did under the law. for princes in the new testament be gods ministers to revenge malefactors as they were in the old , and the greater the wickednesse , the rather to be punished , ergo the greatest ( as heresies , idolatries , blasphemies , ) are soonest of all other vices to be repressed by christian magistrates , whose zeale for christs glory must not decrease , christs care for their scepters being increased , and those monuments of former kings left written for their instruction : were not this sufficient , as in truth t is to refute your evasion , yet king david foreseeing in spirit , that heathen kings would ●and themselves and assemble together against the lord and his christ , extendeth the same charge to the gentiles ; which the kings of jurie received before , and warned them all at once , be wise ye kings , understand ye● judges of the world : serve the lord. and so in another place of this book , the jesuits saying these were kings of the old testament : and they had the law of god to guide them , he answers , then since christian princes have the same scriptures which they had , and also the gospel of christ and apostolick writings to guide them , which they had not , why should they not in their kingdomes retaine the same power , which yee see the kings of iudah ●ad and used to their immortall praise and joy . againe christ came not to abolish or diminish the power of kings and states , but to save their souls ; they are no way loosers but gainers by christs comming : christs kingdome is not of this world , it alters not the power and preeminence god once gave to them as kings and magistrates . lastly , if magistrates under the new testament , should have this power taken from them , the church of god should be in a farre worse condition and more uncomfortable then it was under the old law , the church should lose a great helpe it sometimes enjoyned : neither can that helpe the matter to say that we have now excommunication and other spirituall weapons to supply that losse : for the church of the jewes had excommunication and the word of god , yea , extraordinary prophets , many miracles , answers by vrim and thummim in all difficult cases about religion ( as hagiomastix faith ) which we have not , and yet they had need of magistrates coercive power in matters of religion for all that : to conclude there can be no reason in the world showen or given why magistrates under the new testament should not have power to restraine and punish aposta●ies , blasphemies , &c as well as under the old , but many might be given why their power rather should be continued and enlarged under the new , and in this wee have master burroughs himselfe a witnesse what a sad condition the church of christ would be in , if we had no externall power , to restraine from any kind of blasphemie and seducements , which passage having quoted before , and having spoken something on that occasion , page . of this treatise of toleration , i referre the reader thither , and to master burroughs irenicum page . . fourthly god is unchangeable , the covenant of life under the old and new testament is one and the same for the essence and substance , as our divines show against the socinians , antinomians , anabaptists ; and the rule of righteousnesse and holinesse is the same under the new , that it was under the old , and therefore god hating corruptions of religion so as to command his vice-gerents to punish them then , and to prevent their spreading , he being unchangeable , and the punishing of violations of religion and impieties being acts of holinesse and righteousnesse , must needs stand firm● , and bind magistrates under the new testament . and if the magistrates restraining and suppressing the dishonors of god , ruine of souls by his sword be altered and changed by god in the times of the gospel , then that power of punishment was either truely ceremonial or else judicial , belonging properly to the poli●ie and paedagogie of the jewes , but it was neither ; first , not ceremoniall , it was no type of any thing which was to come , as i have showen before page . . of this treatise . secondly , not properly judiciall in the sense laid downe page . . of this treatise , but morall of common right , used by other nations , and that both before the judicial law was given , and after , of which having spoken so much in divers pages and places of this booke , i shall onely adde this viz. that * zepp●rus in his fourth booke de legibus mosaicis excellently showes these lawes to be appendixes of the decalogue , and in stead of a just commentarie upon them , particularly of the first commandement , whereupon he handles that question of punishing false prophets and hereticks , and showes how many errors and opinions be blasphemies , as servetus opinion against the holy trinitie , and opinions against the attributes of god , &c , which abominations whosoever denies ought to be punished capitally , he overthrowes all pietie and showes himselfe to be a stranger to all religion and faith , where among other reasons brought by him why false teachers and hereticks should be punished by the civil magistrates , as the expresse lawes of god given by moses , and not antiquated , he gives this , no substantial sufficient reason can be brought why the majesty of god , and the authoritie of the church ought to be of lesse moment and waight among christians , then in times past it hath been amongst the jewes . yea by how much god hath more clearely manifested himselfe by his sonne , then in times past by his prophets , by so much the lesse can that coldnesse and luke-warmenesse be excused , if wee be carried with a lesse study of our religion , and do lesse defend it then they . fifthly , it cannot upon any reasonable ground be presumed , that idolatries , heresies , blasphemies , &c commanded by god to be punished by the civil magistrate under the old testament , should by christs comming be set at libertie and absolutely freed from punishment : for . besides that the old testament prophecying of christs comming speaks of those dayes as times of greater holinesse and strictnesse , and that in reference to the commands of the first table , as these scriptures show , isaiah . . , . there shall be a way and it shall be called the way of holinesse , the uncleane shall not passe over it : no lion shall be there ; nor any ravenous beast shall go up thereon , that is no enemie of god , hurtfull to the church , among which false teachers are chief , cald by christ and paul * ravening wolves and greivous wolfes not sparing the flock , matth. . . acts . . zach. . , . prophecies that in the day in which the messiah shall come into the world , he shall overthrow idolatrie , false doctrine , and whatsoever is contrary to the word of god and true religion : the prophet comprehends all under three heads , . i will out off the names of the idols out of the land ; and they shall no more be remembred : t is a frequent thing in the prophets , when they prophecie of christs kingdome , to proclaime war to idols and images , as in micah . , i will cause the prophets to passe out of the land , he denounces destruction to the prophets which is to be understood of false teachers . . i wil cause the uncleane spirit to passe out of the land , that is all the workes of the devil ( the uncleane spirit often so called , by which he withdrawes men from the true worship of god. ) upon which words * gualther writes , the prophet having spoken in the . v. of a full and absolute washing by christs bloud both from original sin and the corruption of our nature , under the name of uncleannesse , and all actuall sins , thoughts , words and deeds under the name of sinne , least any from hence should conceive a hope of carnall liberty and impunity , he showeth this effect of the grace of christ is yet to proceed further , that by him also shall be taken out of the way , & from the midst of the church whatsoever is against the true religion and word of god. zach. , , . in that day shall there be upon the bridles of the horses holinesse unto the lord , and the pots in the lords house shall be like the bowles before the altar , &c. on which verses gualter writes the summary meaning of all to be this . that in those days of the gospel all things shall be turned to the worship of god , even those things which before have beene imployed to prophane uses , and against him ; now then there shall not be holinesse unto the lord written only on the forehead of the priests , but it shall appear eminently on the bridles of the horses : and horses are particularly instanced in , ( horses being in a special manner serviceable for war , the horse is prepared for the battel saith solomon ) to show that the warrs under the gospell should not be prophane and wicked , such as are made by ambitious and covetous persons , but such by which the worship and church of god , may be defended against wicked enemies , by those whom god hath appointed nursing fathers of his church . and such warrs in times past constantine made against maxentius and licinius , and theodosius against eugenius and arbogastus . and for those words , in that day there shall be no more the canaanite in the house of the lord of hosts , he show●s * canaanite signifies merchant , and that the prophet speaks of those who sell and make merchandise of holy things , as the false teachers in peter , who made merchandise of the people ; these are to be driven away far from the church , because they both corrupt the worship of god , subvert the faith of the simple , and make void the merit of christ , these christ sets not upon only with words , or with denouncing woes , but with a whip made of small cords , as impudent greedy dogs he c●sts out of the temple with publick disgrace : by the * canaanite or merchant in this place , the prophet seems to have a special relation to the abuse of merchandizing and selling which was used in the temple matth. . . . john . malach. . , , , , the prophet in this chapter prophecying of christs comming into the world , least men in his comming should p●●●●ise to themselves an earthly kingdome , and a lawlesse libertie of doing any thing without punishment , he tels them what a one christ is , and for what end he comes , and what kind of persons they ought to be who desire to be be saved by him , who may abide the day of his comming ? for he is like a refiners fire , and like fullers sope , and he shall fit as a refiner and purifier of silver , and he shall purifie the sons of levi and purge them as gold and silver , &c , that is as those who deal in mettals , doe not cease to melt and purge their mettals til they see all the drosse taken away , nor fullers leave to wash and rub the garments till all the spots and dirt be washed out : so christ doth not cease using his fire and fullers sope , till we be sanctified and cleansed throughout . the use of this doctrine to us ought to be , least we abuse our pretence of beleeving in christ to a libertie of sinning , but rather we should give our selves to him to be purged , that we may be made such , as he would have us to be . but of the scope of the prophet in these verses , and how severe christ under the gospell will be against transgressors of the first table as sorcerers , false swearers , under the last of which are contained all those who abuse the name of god , that they may deceive others , not only those who in civill matters and bargains falsly pretend the name of god , but also such who in teaching abuse it , and vent the fictions of their owne brains for divine oracle● , the reader may find more in gualther upon the place . so . the new testament speaks of christs comming to destroy the workes of the devil john . among which false doctrins , antichristianisme , and seducing are spoken of by the apostle in that epistle and the foregoing chapter as cheife , and christ is brought in revel . . , . described in a most terrible manner speaking against toleration of heresies ; th●se things faith the son of god , who hath his eyes like unto a flame of fire , and his feet like fine brasse , i have a few things against thee , because thou suffirest that woman iesabel , which calleth her selfe a prophetesse , to teach and to seduce my servants , as also christ and his apostles in the new testament in severall respects , speak more against false doctrines , herefies , false teachers , seducer● , then against corrupt manners : neither can it be put off by saying that under the new testament christ hath brought libertie , a part whereof is the toleration of heresies , &c for the apostle in gal. . . where he exhorts christians to stand fast in the libertie wherewith christ hath made them free expresly declares verse . this libertie is not to be used for an occasion to the flesh , which it must needs be if this libertie were a libertie of heresies , heresies being named in the same chapter a worke of the flesh verse . . master cartwright writing of certaine judiciall lawes that cannot be changed , as of putting to death a contemptuous blasphemer , and stubborne idolater , speaks thus of this pretended ground of christs comming . as for that they alledge the cause of this libertie now , they are not to be put to death , by reason of the comming of our saviour christ and his passion , t is a weak one and injurious unto the comming and death of christ , for he appeared that he might destroy the workes of the devil ; this makes our saviour christ to build againe that kingdome of sin which he hath destroyed . for when in common reason and by the manifest word of god the lord giveth this blessing unto the punishment of such greivous offenders by death , that others not only which see , but which heare of them , have the bridle of fear put upon them , whereby they are kept from the like , that must needs follow that whosoever maketh our saviour christ author of this loosenesse in punishing such offenders , maketh him forthwith to loose the bridle whereby others are afraid from running into wickednesse , and what is this but to make christ a troubler of common-wealths : besides if christ by his comming loosed these civil punishments and purchased this grace of his father for blasphemers , idolaters , hereticks , that they should escape civil punishments which the law of god adjudged them to , how comes it to passe that the apostles to whom christ committed the publishing of all the pardon he obtained for us , did never make mention of the releasing of these punishments : if christ had obtained this libertie it was worth the preaching , and therefore unlesse they can show out of the writings of the apostles to warrant this sanctuary , which they would build to the support of blasphemers , hereticks , that followes that the apostles have not answered the trust committed to them , but in that the apostle puts a sword in the hand of the magistrates , and in the use of it makes him a minister of the justice of the lord against sin , he confutes this opinion . . and lastly we see clearly that some things that were permitted under the old testament to the jewes , are not to christians under the new but expresly and formally declared against by christ , as polygamie , mens putting away their wives giving bils of divorce and marrying others , mat. . , . mat. . from v. . to the . and usury , matth. . . luke . , . learned cameron in his lectures of divorce upon matth. . . puts this question why the bill of divorce takes not place in the times of the new testament and why does not god permit the same thing in the new , which he suffred in the old , unto which he answers , that although there is the same reason of mans nature in the times of the old and new testament , yet there is not the same reason of grace , * which is much more plentifully and clearly laid open and explained in these last times , then before ; therefore our lives ought to be ordered in these times , * much more strictly and holily . those elders under the old testment were bound truely to follow the same holinesse of life , but we much more ; for by how much any one hath received more then nnother , by so much he owes more . chemnitius in his common places de paupertate cap. . de vsura showes though there were two permissions cheifly in the old testament , of divorce and usurie , yet christ under the new , opposes to either of these permissions , the perpetual rule of righteousnesse in god , matth. . . & . also cap. . verse . luke . verse . . in which place he discourses of this , how god under the old testament may be considered as a divine , and as a legislator , in some places of the old testament laying down how we must serve him in holinesse and righteousnesse ; in others prescribing certaine political constitutions to that people for the externall societie of civil life in the jewish common-wealth . now in those political laws which god gave the people of israel , holinesse and righteousnesse of the conscience before god was not alwayes prescribed , but they were fitted to the preservation of outward and civil societie in that common-wealth according to the condition and dispositions and manners of that people , to whom god himselfe gives the epithite of a stiffe neck . so the bil of divorce in the common-wealth of israel , was permitted ; but now in the new testament though moses suffred it for the hardnesse of their hearts , yet christ declares against it t is not lawfull to be permitted , though there were the same manners of men , there being now under the gospel more powerfull remedies of such an evil , and a fuller declaration and communication of the grace of god : this distinction may not be allowed now under the new testament of theologus and legislator , of jus fori & jus poli ; for all lawes given by god , in the new testament , prescribe the puritie of conscience before god , and doe not look particularly to the outward preservation of the civil societie of one common-wealth of people pe●uliarly . and so much for the . thesis . thesis . besides all the old testament proofes both of commands and approved examples before the law , and under the law , before the captivitie of babylon and after , for the magistrates coercive power in the matters of the first table , laid down in this treatise , together with answers to all the evasions brought against such commands and examples , as also to that of proofs out of the old testament , i desire the reader to consider this thesis , that place of scripture speaking of the days of the new testament and what should be then done , approves of and commends this power of the magistrate , as among other these three places of scripture psal . . , , . esay . . zach. . , . that the second psalme is a prophecie of the dayes of the gospel , after christs comming into the world is clearely demonstrated by act. . , , , . where by peter and john t is applyed to those times , in which psalme king david , foreseeing in spirit that heathen kings would hand themselves and assemble together against the lord and his christ , extendeth the same charge to the gentiles which the kings of jurie received before , and warned them all at once , be wise ye kings , understand ye judges of the world : serve the lord ; and t is to be observed in that second psalme that kings and judges quatomes tales are to serve the lord and kisse the son , upon which words austin writes thus , all men ought to serve god : in one sort by common condition as men ; in another sort by severall gifts and offices , by the which some doe this some doe that ; no private persons could command idols to be punished cleane from among mert , which was so long before prophecied , therfore kings ( besides their dutie to serve god common with all other men , have in that they be kings how to serve the lord in such sort as none can doe which are not kings . for in this kings ( in respect they be kings ) serve the lord ( as god by david warneth them ) if in their kingdomes they command that which is good , and prohibite that which is evill , not in civil affairs only , but in matters also concerning divine religion . that esay . . is a prophecie to the gentiles under the new testament , as is evident by verse . behold i will lift up my hand to the gentiles , and kings shall be thy nursing fathers , &c now they could not be cald the nurses of the church if they had no care of religion ; but those of whom this prophecie was meant , and in whom fulfilled , did care for religion did care for the faith , as constantine , gratian , theodosius , and others , who by publick edicts did prohibit false doctrines and did command all throughout the whole empire , to embrace the true faith ; t is confessed by master * burroughs himselfe , the protection of their civil peace is not sufficient to give them such a denomination of nursing fathers and mothers . upon which place * b●lson writes thus with this endeavour of christian princes god comforteth his church by the mouth of esay , kings shall be thy nursing fathers , &c what esay saith princes shal do , that i conclude princes must doe , because god would not promise they should usurpe another mans office but discharge their owne . if you take the milke of princes for temporall honours , lands , and goods , the ●ery children will laugh you to scorne . the church of christ is no wanton church , she lusteth for no worldly wealth , which is rather harmful poison then wholesome food , gods provision for her is spiritual , not carnall , her delights are not outward in flesh , but inward in grace : the prophet good man had no leasure to thinke on yo● farms , demeans and revenues ; no remedy , you must needs yeeld us that christian princes , in respect of their office , not of their riches , have received an expresse commandement from god to show themselves nurses to his church . now nurses by nature must provide for their infants and defend them from danger , ergo kings and queens in the new testament , are bound to tender the church of christ , and by their princely power and publick laws to defend the same from infection of heresies , invasions of scismes , and all other apparent corruptions of faith and good manners . zach. . , . is a prophecie of the times and dayes of the gospel , as the context is cleare and is confessed by some patrons of toleration , though put off and evaded that t is allegorical and figurative , and meant of some one particular time only under the gospel , with other such like , as the posteript to hagiomastix writes page . . all which evasions i had thought at this time to have fully taken of , and to have cleared this text by many passages and phrases in the context , besides severall reasons that it must needs be understood literally , and of all times under the gospel , but the troubles of the times call me of from my intended thoughts and preparations in this kind , and shall reserve them ( if god will ) for a second part , only i shall adde that divers learned interpreters ancient and moderne as theodoret , calvin , and others hold the prophet here alludes to deut. . where god required such strictnesse in maintaining pure doctrine , that the father should rise up against the sonne whom he begat . god would have all the godly to burne with such a zeal of defending the true worship of god and pietie , that no affinitie nor consanguinitie , nor any other carnall respect should prevail to hinder the requiring of punishment upon their neerest friends in cases of violating the worship of god and corrupting sound doctrine . this was the prescript of the law : but whereas for a time , religion had beene neglected , yea troden under foot , zacharie saith that when the faithfull should repent , they should bee endowed with such a desire of true pietie , as neither father nor mother should suffer wicked errors in their sons . and here t is to be observed that this zeale is approved of under the kingdome of christ ; for zacharie does not here restraine this doctrine to the time of the law , but showes what shall be when christ is come , namely that then again that zeale shall burne in the hearts of all the godly which was almost extinct . it followes therefore this law was not given only to the jewes , as many fanatical men imagine , who would have a leave of disturbing the world , but that this law extends to us also . * musculus speaking of things appertaining to the classis of morall commands , shows that many things in the prophets writings belong thereunto , and he gives this reason ; that in most things they were interpreters of the mosaicall law ; and therefore zacharie does here inter ●●t that law in deut. . concerning false prophets and seducers , to be in force under the gospel , the prophets in their writings doe interpret and explaine moses writings , as the books of moses doe the decalogue , written by god in two tables of stone and delivered unto moses , deut. . . that in deut. . is to be compared with this zach. . . where we find the same things , almost the same words used in a prophecie of the times of the gospel , the meaning of which is not that his father or mother should presently run a knife into him , but that though they begat him , yet they should be the means to bring him unto condigne punishment , even the taking away of his life , and so master cartwright speaking of this prophecie writes thus . no power is given to one private man to kill another , nor for the private man to kill his children , but this manner of speech is grounded on deut , . . where t is proved the witnesse who accused should throw the first stone against the convicted persons , ergo they ascribe the killing of the guilty person , as belonging to the duty of the accuser . thesis . in the scriptures of the new test , there are clear grounds & full proofes , that hereticks and false teachers , corrupters of religion , deserve to be punished corporally , as well as spiritualy by excommunication , and that magistrates ought to punish in cases of idolatry , heresie and such like , as well as for transgressions against the second table ; now among many i shall lay down these following , . that christ and his apostles being accused before magistrates about matters of religion , as blasphemy , being against the law of moses , and such like , they never pleaded for themselves that it was not lawfull to punish any man for matters of religion , but they defended their causes , that they had not taught any thing against the word of god and the law of moses , were not guilty of blasphemy or heresie , so that they granted the major proposition , namely that is was lawful for the magistrate to punish hereticks who taught against the word of god , but they denied the minor that they were hereticks : for out of the word of god they showed they were not hereticks , in that they taught nothing against the word of god , yea nothing but what had a proof in the word of god. but of this the reader may see more in zanchits miscellanies de magistratu , page . . christ in john . ▪ , . made a scourge , and drove out of the temple those that made his fathers house a house of merchandise , which now false teachers are said to doe , pet. . . and t is the more observable that christ who let the woman taken in adultery go away and did not punish her ; that would not divide an inheritance because his kingdome was not of this world ; yet in the matter of his fathers house did exercise coercive power with a high hand , scourging and driving out of the temple those that sold oxen , &c. and this he is said to doe out of zeale , the zeale of thine house hath eaten me up : and though this be not recorded for ministers to use a materiall whip , yet certainly this was an act of righteousnesse that should have been done by the magistrates of that time , & it had been a glorious action if they had done it , and however there might be something heroical in it , yet doubtlesse t is an act of righteousnesse and zeal that ought to be done by some in their ordinary calling , viz. by magistrates . . rom. . . magistrates beare not the sword in vaiue for them that doe evill , and they are revengers to execute wrath upon them that doe evill : now blasphemers , hereticks , false teachers doe evill and are evill workers , phil. . . epistle of john v. . revel . . . and non distinguendum est ubi scriptura non distinguit : upon which place master bilson writes thus , princes in the new testament be gods ministers to revenge malefactors , as they were in the old , and the greater the wickednesse , the rather to be punished , ergo , the greatest ( as heresies idolatries and blasphemies ) are soonest of all other vices to be repressed by christian magistrates , whose zeale for christs glory must not decrease , christs care for their scepters being increased . . cor. . . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the apostle showes us that when christian magistrates were wanting , besides miracles , gifts of healing , &c. christ gave a speciall gift to the church of restraining seducers and obstinate hereticks by corporall punishment ; there were some that had a speciall gift of coercing ungodly men ; this paul exercised upon elym●n the false prophet and seducer , acts . . upon which place peter martyr writes fully , the church then had not the sword of the magistrate by which offences might be restrained , therefore a power was given of punishing them corporally . the best interpreters ancient and modern , as chrysostome , oecumenius , calvin , beza , peter martyr , pareus , and divers others doe understand by powers , those who had such a gift , upon which place i intended to have insisted largely by comparing other scriptures with it , and to have demonstrated from it , the necessity and lawfulnesse of a power of punishing corporally obstinate hereticks and seducers , but i must take off . . gal. . . paul wishes that false teachers and troublers of the church were cut off : which place i intended to have enlarged upon to prove it meant of bodily cutting off , but cannot now . . tim. . . paul showes kings and those that are in authoritie are to be prayed for , that we may lead a quiet and a peaceable life in all godlinesse and honesty , in all godlinesse , as well as honesty : this is the end of prayers to be made for magistrates , now that which is the end of prayers poured out for magistrates ought to be the end propounded by the magistrate in his duty , but the apostle commands prayers to be made for magistrates for that end , ergo it lyes upon the magistrate to see to it , of which the reader may see more in meisner . polit. de magistratu ; and t is confessed by master * thomas goodwin in his returne of prayers , this was a command to pray , that god would give christian magistrates to the church , the answer of which was in giving constantine a christian emperor , who as the ecclesiastical * histories show , did by lawes and edicts command the christian religion , as also establish the ●icen● creed touching the faith of one substance , banishing by his edict arius and his adherent● , . revel . ▪ . john prophecies , and speaks of it as an acceptable work to god , for christian kings and states by their civil temporal power to destroy the romish religion : now if the romish seducers and corrupters of religion ( upon that ground cald the whore ) may be punished by civil magistrates , and dealt with by other weapons then preaching , admonition , excommunication , then such as are certinly worse then they , as anti●rinitaria●s , soc●nians . libertins , may be also by magistrates restrained . master robinson writing against the anabaptists , one helwisse who interprets this place of spirituall weapons , answers him this is a prophecie of kings and magistrates whose weapons and power are other besides that of prayers which is common to all christians , t is spoken what they shal doe as kings : besides t is contrary to the cleare meaning of the holy-ghost , which is , that kings should first use their civill power for the beast and whore , and after against them to their destruction , they shall give their power to the lamb , as they before gave it against the lamb : now we know they used their civil power under poperie , as a means by which to suppresse the true religion , and therefore princes and states shall establish the true by that means and destroy the false , of which i had thought to have enlarged further , as also upon the other new testament quotations , to have answered the evasions brought against them , especially of hagiomastix against rom. . . and to have proved it cannot be restrained only against evils of the second table , but is to be understood of evil against the first , but i must reserve these things , and divers more to another opportunitie , and for a second part. if god wil. to god only wise , be glory through jesus christ . amen . finis . good reader , among many other errata of the presse , upon running over the book in hast since printed ( not having time to read and weigh every page , much lesse sentence or line ) i finde these following , errata . page line , after ought to be r. also punished . p. . l. for they r. these , p. l. r. four and five fold , p. l. . for latter r. letter , the figures of the pages which should be , , , , , , , , . are misprinted , p. . l. . for mens r. means , p. . l. . for others r. other divines , p. . l. . after put r. upon and. margin . notes , p. . for diga r. digna . p. . for egyptis r. egyptii , bones r. boves , p. . r. c. quae . . p. . for equas r. equus , p. . r. praceptorum , for prophetam r. prophetarum , for pl●nisqu● r. plerisque , p. . r. after peccata r. coercerentur . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e numb . . , . ● king . . revel . . . * aug. contra petil. l. . c. . noli dicere , inquit petiliano augustinus , absit , absit à conscientia nostra ut ad nostram fidem aliquem compellamus : facitis enim ubi potestis ; ubi autem non facitis non pot●stis , sive legum sive invidiae tim●re , sive resistentium multitudine . * luther epist . ad wences . lin cum . christus meus vivit & regnat , & ego vivam & regnabo . notes for div a -e ☞ ☞ * zanch. in quartum praceptum . chemnitii loci commun . de lege dei in quartum praecept . * vide master cheynels sermon before the house of commons on that text of abrahams commanding his children pag. . * zanch. in quartum praecept . pag. , . non enim ait tu mementout sanctifices , monebis autem filium filiamve tuam , ut & ipsi sanctificent ; non sic ait , sed memento ut sanctifices , & ut alii etiam tui sanctificent . adigere quisque pater familias potest & debet suos domesticos ad externum cultum ; cur non etiam mag●stratus suos subditos ? * a sermon before the house of commons cald a plot for the good of posterity . ☞ pareus in gen. . . * vide junium in chron. . and the late annotations of the english divines on that place . * vide late annot . on cron. . , . regia sua auctoritate obstrinxit & quāvis propensos judaeorū animos compescuit ne ipso vivo ab externo dei cultu deficerent ; tantam adhibuit severitatem disciplinae . tremellius & junius in locum . * meisnerus sect. . contro . quaest . politic. de magist . pag. . vituperatur autem solomon idololatrica sacra permittens . ames . animad . in remonstrat ▪ synod script . super . artic. de perseverant . cap. . de solomone . certum est solomonem non introduxisse aut admississe idola in domum dei , neque adegisse populum ut vel dei verum cultum desererent vel colerent idola ; neque probari potest eum in sua propria persona coluisse idola . hoc tantum certum est de ejus idololatria quod infatuatus a mulieribus idololatricis permiserit eas construere , aut ipsemet jussit cons●rui fana & erigi altaria . * mercer praefat . in job : sane diligentius omnia consideranti mihi , videtur job antiquissimus fuisse ac sub patriarcharum tempus vixisse . * hagio mastix . pag. . sect . . * aug. . epist . ad bonifac. sicut servivit rex ninivitarum vniversam civitatem ad placandum dominum compellendo ; sicut servivit nabuchadonazar omnes in regno suo positos , a blasphemando deo lege terribili revocande . secondly , because it ha●● no influence upon civill authority ; of which see a●or● there . * first then the priests & some prophets as ionah should have had this power : yea adam , isaac , &c. for they were all types of christ . z the 〈◊〉 b●unds or liberty of consti●● stated . p. ●● * there ●e●e ●●●o suprea●● , two highest powers , both suprea●e in their owne kind & sphere , one civill , another ecclesiastical● : moses above ●aaron● as the sup●e●m judge in the power of the sword , 〈◊〉 above moses in sacrificing , in burning 〈◊〉 , in judging betwen the clean and unclean . mr. cap●● ● . 〈◊〉 ●quaest . 〈◊〉 . ● , , , cap. quaest . . cap. . quaest . . p. . mr. gillespies : book cap. . that the jews had an ecclesiasticall government distinct from the civill . * the antient bounds or liberty of conscience stated . pag. , . * trigland . de potest . civil . & eccles . pag. , . walaei t●actat . de manere ministr . eccles . & inspectione ma●istratus circa illud . from p. . to p. . apollon . ius majestat . circa sacra part . pri . , . * see dr. taylors treatisse of the types and shadowes of christ contained in the scriptures . * triglandus de potestat . civil . & ecclesiastica jehosaphat , hiskia , josiah , & similes nil nisi reges fuere non proph●tae . p. . a great difference is made by learned divines for types and prophets between moses , david , solomon joshua , and josiah , hezekiah , &c. the blo●dy tenet . page ☞ ☞ * see dr. taylors treatise of types , c. . p. , , . ☜ ☜ ☜ ☜ ☜ * bellarm. de laicis lib. . cap. . * gabriel powell refutat . of an apologet. epistle ●e● toleration page . ☜ * meisnerus sect. . controvers . quaest . politic . de magistr . pag. * bilsons difference between christian subjection and unchristian rebellion . part . pag. . * august . epist . . * vide late annotations of english divines on the place . vide pet. mart. in locum . * phil. mela●c . de magistrat . civilibus & dignitate rerum politic. a triglandu● de potest . civili . & eccles . c. . p. . * amesius medul . lib. . cap. . pag. . magistratuum est politicis medi●● , & potestate coerciva procurare bonum commun● , tam spirituale quam corporale omnium corum , quo● habent suae jurisdictioni commissos . * bilsons difference between christian subjection and unchristian rebellion , part . page . zanch. in qua● . praecept . . * zanchius in quart . praecept . , quia vero synecdoche est sub patresamilias , complectens & magistratum , ideo tacite etiam docet , non solum quid inc●●bat cuique patrifamilias , sed etia● quodnam sit magistratus officium in religione : nempe ut primo intelligat ex lege dei quae sit ejus voluntas ; deinde eam faciet ipse , & curet ab aliis etiam fieri , sabbatumque ex ejus voluntat● sanctific●●i , vide ibi plura . * chemnitius loc . com . de lege dei in quart . praecept . p. . manifestum est a parentibus , patribus familias & magistra tibus exigi non tantum ut ipsi sabbatum sanctificent , sed ipsorum officii esse ut curent a reliquis etiam sanctificari , prohibeant & puniant prophanationem . et oftendit deus magistratum debere curare ut peregrini habitantes in portis conforment se religioni verae , ne inde oriantur scandala . * rivetus in decal . pag. . zanch. in quar . pr●cept . p. . ☜ ☜ * magistratus omnis ta● . christianus quam non christianus potest & debet . vide plura . rom. . , , . * vit. num. pompil . de reverent . dei hoe age . numa also forbad the romans to beleeve that god hath either forme or likenesse of beast or man , so that in rome there was no image of god neither painted nor graven . vide ibi plura . * de republ. eccles . cap. ● . , . quod si praeter nudum lumen naturae , & naeturalis solius rationis dictamen , adsit in rege terreno , ex dei beneficio etiam lumen fidei , adeoque dictamen hoc rationis supernaturalibus etiam virtutibus infusis dirigatur , tunc similiter ex ●odem regis officio religionis queque custes ita suam debet ordinare politiam , primum negative ut illa cum fide moribusque fideli homini digni● no●s pugnet ; deinde positive per actus externos ( qui soli ad ipsius spectant potestatem ) externam divinum cultum foveat , promoveat , &c. vide ibi plura . zanch. de magistr . , . * lib. . cap. . . , . de jure natur . & gent. lib. . cap. . gentilis quilibet qui non in se receperat septem praecepta noachidis imperata ultimo supplicio assiciendus erat si inditione nostra commoraretur . * mr. selden de jure naturali & gentium . l. . c. . lib. . c. . . lib. . cap. . . . de jure gentium lib. . cap. . ceterùm quoniam hac in re gravioribus coerceri volebant panis gentiles seu proselytas domicilii quam cives ebraicos , ideo ex iure gentium interv●niente seu proselytis ejusmodi ipsisque superinducto , tam cogneminis alicujus blasphemiam aut maledictionem quam nominis propri● , in proselyto domicilii seu noachide ultimo plectebant supplicia . maimonides , noachides qui maledixerit nomini , five id fecerit nomine proprio seu tetragrammato , sive cognomine aliquo quocunque modo , reus est mortis , quod non ita obtinet in israelita . * acontius de stratagem . satanae pag. . . est enim in lege ut omnis israel audiens timeat &c : quae certe ratio perpetuo viget , ut quanquam lex ipsa exspiraverit , tam sit tamen jus magistratui similem aliam condendi quam 〈◊〉 jus est in homicidas , adulteros aliosquae facinorosos homines leges condere . * nam ubicunque ultimo supplicio punitur in foro israelitico ●ultus extraneus , ibi noachides ob similem cultum plectendus erat . et ubicunque in foro israelitico morte non punitur ejusmodi cultus , neque ob similem gladio plectitur noachides . pag. . praeter idololatriam at maledictionem numinis , nihil omnino ex jure naturali seu hominum omnium communi pro crimine seu delicto circa sacra , quatenus scilicet noachidas solùm ea respitiebant , in foro , quoties sistebatur proselytus domicilii , seu gentilis ejusmodi ipsis est habitum ▪ pag . ☞ * vide pareu●● in locum . * bulling . lib. . adu . anabapt . cap. . aliae praeterea pars legis est politica quae versatur in judiciis , haeredetatibus , contractibus poenis & suppliciis & in administratione rei publicae quoniam vero non habitamus cha●anaeam regionem , ad quā multae leges accomodatae sunt abrogata quoque est lex quoad hanc partem : interim pax & judicia & alia bonae non to●luntur . * synops . puri . theolog. cap. ames . cas . conscient . l. . c. . lib. cap. . quaest . tertia . * appendix ad , exodum , * beza de haereticis à magistratu puniendis pasia . * see cartwr-second reply to dr. whitgift pag. . . * ames . ●cas . lib cap. . quaest . . ☜ * henr. alting . loc . commun . per . loc . . de leges dei. cognos●itur autem juris communis ratio , si idem ab aliis : quoque legiflatoribus ex luce naturae c●nr●su m , ac sanatum fuisse ; vel ad tuendā preceptorum decalogi obedientiam facere corriperiatur . a phil. mela. de magistr . civil . & dign . rerum politic. haec sententia omnibus hominibus , imo omnibus creaturis intelligentibus concionatur . suo quisqu● loco prohibere manifestas dei comumelias debet . quare & magistratus prohibere & puni●e debent epicureos sermones , idolorum honores , faedera daemonum , professionem impior●● dogmatum . vt omnes politiae sanxerunt paenas adversus perjuros , mult●● etiā apud ethnicos sanxerunt paenas adversus perj●ros multae etiam apud ethnicos sanxerunt paenas adversus epicuraeos seu atheos qui palam dixerunt nihil esse deum , aut nullam esse providentiam dei. b peter martyr loc . commun . class . . cap. . c zanchius in quarr . praecept . loc . . de officio principium in religione , pag. . hoc liquet primum à lege naturae : omnes enim principe inter gentes judicarunt ad se pertinere curam religionis . d beza de hereticis à magistrat . puniendis . e musculus de magistrat . . agnoverunt hoc ethnicorum quoque sapientes qui primum locum in republicae institutione religioni dederunt . fuerunt quidem illi homines ethnici , viam dei ignorantes , & ab ecclesia illius alieni : in eo tamen haud quaquam errarunt , quod sine pietatis ac religionis observantia , nullam cujuscunque reipublicae politiam feliciter institui regique posse senserunt : cum ergo sententiae hujus veritas tam sit manifesta ut ne ethnicos quidem latere potuerit : an non magis agnoscenda nobis & amplectenda qui cognitione dei non gentes modo sed & populum legis longe ant●cellimus . f mr. selden de jure naturali & gentium , lib. . cap. . cap. . lib. . cap. . cap. . cap. . cap. . cap. . l. . c. . praeter idololatriam ac maledictionē numinis , nihil omnino ex jure naturali , seu hominum omnium communi p●o criminc seu dilecto circa sacra , qua●enus scilicet noachidas solùm ea respiciebant , in foro , quoties sistebatur proselytus domicilii , seu gentilis ejusmodi ipsis est habitum . caeterum ex alia lege sacra obtinuit apud aliquos opinio ( quae hic non praetermittenda ) gentilium nemini licuisse , numini patrio , seu quod ipse velut patrium coluerit , maledixisse . hac locutioris formula , levit. . . volunt nonnulli non solum cunctis mortalium numinis sanctissimi , ac vnici maledictionem interdici ; verum etiam gentilibus apud ebraeos , maledictionem deorum quos sibi adsciverant . ☞ e vide ainsworrh . late annotat . of our english . divines . piscat . in exod. . . quod abominationi est egyptiis . hoc est animalia à quorum caede abhorrent egyptis , quippe quae ipsi adorant : ut bones ant vitulos ▪ ☞ ☜ * cartwrights second reply to dr. whitgifts second answ . pag , . a minus cessus senensis sect. tert . p. . b abraham utique non fuit sub paedagogi● mosis . muscul . loc . commun . de abrogat . mosaic . leg . p. . c see hagiomastix from sect . to sect . and minus celsus senensis from p. . to . and compare them together . * zanchius 〈◊〉 magistrat● p. . * in lege moses punitionū sons illa vox au● fer●s malum de media 〈◊〉 pet. martyr loc . common . p . * zanchius dedisciplina . synops . purior . theolog de discipl . eccles . * robins justifi . cat . of separat . catechisme . ☞ * baz● de haeret . a magistr . puniendis . nullae idone● ratio afferri potest cur dei majestas minoris apud nos ponderis esse debeat quam olim apud judaeos fuerit ; imo vero christiani si veram religionem minore studio tueant●r quam olim judaei , imo minus excusari possint quo clari●s sese dominus per filiu●● suum quā per prophetas patefecit . ☜ * bulling . ad verses anabapt . lib. . cap. . . . cap. . . . cap. . . * osiand . enchi●id de magistratu polit. quaest . . * alexander alensis paar . quaest . . thomas aqinas , . quaest . estius in lib. s●ntent . lib. . distinct . . suarez . de legib . lib. . cap. . lib. c. . molina tractat. . de jure & justitia , alphonsus a castro de lege paenali lib. . cap. . azor . institut . moral . muscul . loc . commun . de lege naturae . * nec est ut dicat quisquam non est nobis christianis ●ttendendum in religione quid dictitet lumen naturae , sed quid nobis sanctae scripturae praescribant quae ad hoc sunt datae , ut ad omne bonum opus instructi red daemur . licet 〈◊〉 in iis quae fidei nostra mysteria concernu●● non sit c●asulendu lex naturae , sed magis sacrae scriptura : simul tamen conte●●i 〈◊〉 debent , quae divi●oconsilio 〈◊〉 ●estric naturaliter ●sure● inscripta qualis est lex illa , quam naturae vocamus ; cuj●● nobis directionem & prophetae , & christus & apostoli commendant . * o vtinam & bodie amputentur omnes illi falsi doctores ac pastores qui ●●●pus ecclesiarum christi sic occupant , ut inde avelli non posse videantur nisi quemadmod●m ves●es ferro exciduntur & abjiciuntur , i●a ipsi quoque forti ●anu p●r christianos , magistratus ●mputentur , qu● salus fidelium quae peri●litatur recuper●tur . * de haeresi . p. , . de illis here●icis loquer , qui et si graviter errent haud tame● blasphemi sunt adversus deum . blasphemum lex dei vivere non patitur . * musculus in qu●tum praecept . pag. , . non dico simpliciter ad solos israelitas pertinere decalogi hujus observantiam , sed quate●us pertinet ad legem mosaicam & tabulas ●abet foederis à deo cum israele initi hacte●us utique neque gentes neque christian●s constringit sed solos israelitas , quos legis hujus dispensatio peculiariter & nominatim concernit . interea tamen sciendu● est , quae in hoc decalogo 〈◊〉 nentur , quatenus in sesunt bona , justa aequa & pia , & ad legem naturae pertinent , hactenus illorum observantiam pertinere ad omnes . quatenus israelitis per mosem legaliter est traditus , solos israelitas legaliter constringit : quatenus vero cum lege naturae justitia & equitate consentit , non solos israelitas , sed omnes homines ad sui observantiam habet obnoxios . muscul . de legibus , . episcop . winton . opusc . pag. . ames . lib. . cas . consc . cap. . mepul . lib. . cap. . * judi●iales le●es proprie illae fuerunt quae cum non fuerunt , caremoniales , singularem populum judaicum respectum habuere , ita ut ratio causa & fundamentum earū positū fuerit in illius populi peculiari aliqua çonditione . leges igitur illae quae judicialibus annumerari solent & tamen in ratione sua nullu● singularem respectum habuerunt ad conditionem judaeo●um , magis quā aliorum populorum , illae omnes sunt juris moralis ac naturalis , omnium populorum communes . * kekerman lib. . cap. . d● praedicam . substantiae & lib. . cap. . burgerdis . institut . logic. l. . c. . c. . seton . log. de substantia . substantia quà substantia non variatur gradibus seu non recipit magis & minus . substantia eadem numero permanens , potest contraria accidentia in se suscipere . accid . communia recipiunt gradus . accidens est quod adest & abest sine subjecti interitu . accidentia sunt seperabilia à subjecto . * cas . cons . lib. . cap. . de jure . * zepperi mosaic . leg. forens . explanat . l. . c. de varia legum mosaicarū composit . pag. . . decalogus sane ut nt mere moralis , immutabilis , & perpetuus videri queat , aliquid tamen & cereminiale & forense admixtū habet . quintum praeceptū morale est quatenus parentibus a liberis honorem exhiberi vult ; judiciale & politicum quatenus terrae chanaan & benedictionis in illa promissionem continet . ceremoniale in super aliquid , quatenus chananaea terra typus erat caelestis illius patriae . vid. ibi plura . rivet . explicat . decal . p. . promissio enim addi●a praecepto quinto expresse loquitur de terra-quam deus erat daturus populo quae hoc tempore nos non respieit . * danaus in tim. . epistol . dedicat. in cap. . v. . cap. . v. . * apologet narration . meere circumstances we except , or what rules the law of nature doth in common dictate . ☞ * the stoning to death with stones idolaters , false prophets , was not essentiall as zach. . . showes who there prophecies they shall be thrust through , not stoned . ☞ * beza de haeret . a magistr . page . judicialis autem l●xeam duntaxat justitiae & aequitatis partē sigillatim explicat , quae in iis rebus versatur de quibus judicia constituta sunt . * ames . lib. . cas . consc . cap. . de jure ista lex judicialis quae per mosen traditae fuit israelitis ut eorum propria , fuit ipsis accuratissima determinatio & accommodatio juris naturalis secundum illius populi singula●em determinationem . ista lex ad christianos pertinet tantum sub ratione doctrinae quatenus vel generali sua natura , vel proportionis aquitate , exhibet semper nobis optimam naturalis juris determinationem . ☜ calvin . refut●t errorum serveti , in quaest . an christianis judicibus h●reticos punire liceat . p. ● * cretensis p. . * a letter by way of answer to a letter of mr. vicars . a candle to see the sunne . apolog . for some passages in hagiomastix by divers independents . * viz. that of deut. . . * eusebii eccles . histor . lib. . cap. . * rivet explicat decal . p. . * theod. hist . eccles . lib. . cap. . * appendix to hagiomastix apolog. of some of mr. goodwins church , for hagiomastix a candle to light the sun. whitak . disput . de sacra script . contra bellarm. & staplet . de scripturae authoritate , perspicuitate , interpretatione , & perfectione . john whites way to the true church . rob. baron . apodixis catholica sive apologia pro disput. d● firmali objecto fidei . rivet . cathol . orth●dox . tractat. prim. de scriptura . with divers pamphlets of saltmarsh and walwyn for liberty of conscience . ☜ * juuius in locū narratio de litis contestatione , qua accusatur jeremia v. . & seipsum defendit , defensio jeremiae juridicialis absoluta ( ut vocant rhetores ) incipiens & concludens a vocatione dei & jure ab ipso factū afferens . * see in mr. gillesp . aarons rod blossoming , p. , , . * aainsworth annot. on exod . . . numb . . . eleazar shal aske councell of god for joshua in all doubtfull cases in all their warre , &c. diodates annot. on numb . . . sam. . . annor . of our english divines on exod . . . iuni● annot. in num. . . sam. . . * petr. mart. loc . commun . class . . cap. . weems christian synagogue . chap. . theodoret. quaest. in exod quaest . . suara pectus erat : indumenti genus quod rationale vecabatur , tegens cor partem ration alem . quo quidem vestimento cognoscebatur , victoria ne an clades bello immuneret : ut perspicuum est ex historiam regnorum . * petr mart loc . commun class . . cap. . hic ut inquit chambi mos erat interrogandi deum . qui volebat de publico , vel alioqui de gravi negotio percontari , veniebat ad sacerdotem : is indutus ephod , stabat coram arca domini . in ephoa sine in pectorali , erant inclusi duo decim lapides pretiosi , in quib us nomina duodecim tribuum erant inscripta . interrogantem oportuit faciem ob vertere ad sacerdotem & interrogare non quidem tam aperte ut vox audiretur , nec ita etiam obscure , ut tantum in anima cogitaret , quae petebat . deinde sacerdoti hoc pacto reddebatur oraculum . spiritus sanctivi literae quaedam in pectorali eminebant idque vel loco vel fulgore , in quibus sacerdos oraculum & voluntatem dei legebat . haec chimb● cui quantum fidei fit tribuendum nescio . potuit enim fieri ut spiritus dei absque literis oracula ediderit per vocem summi sacerdotis , cujus animum vaticinio afflasse● . weems christian synagogue prolegomena cap. . the revelation by vrim and thummim is not expressely set down : iosephus thinks when they were to go to battell , the priest putting his ephod upon him , if they were to march , then the stones did shine , but if the stones did not shine , then they were to stay : but this seems not to have been a sufficient way to have directed them in other cases . wherefore t is most probable that the priest having these stones upon his breast , that the lord inspired him by his spirit what answer to make to every question asked him . * junius in deut. , . conjunctionem disjuctivam esse apparet ex vers . ut reipsa munera esse disparata constat ad quae haec officiorum nomina respiciunt . mr. gillespies aarons rod blossoming c. . . here are two judicatories distinguished by the disjunctive or v. . which we have both in the hebrew , chaldee , greek , and in our english translation . * vide mr. gil lesp . aaronsrod blossoming , book . c. , . showing fully in this scripture a transmitting difficult cases from inferior courts to those at ierusalem , and to the supreme court there . vid luther & piscat . in locu● . in judiciis conveniens ordo observandus est , ut sc . judices inferiores quū iis oblata est causa difficil●c ex qua expedire se non possunt causam illam deserant ad judices superiorestanquā juris peritiores . * nicol. lyra in deut. . , , . surge & ascende i. e. in his casibus & consimilibus recurrendum est ad superiores judices s● . ad summum sacerdetem & judicem populi . * cas . consc . lib. . cap. . pag. . si igitur haeretici sint maniesti , & publice noxii , debent a magistrrtu publica potestate coerceri . si vero ●tiam manifestè blasphemi sunt & in illis blasphemiis pertinaces praefracti , possint etiam affici supplicio capitali . * de in obedientia in illis rebus quae ex lege dei manifesto & clare determinantur . * hagiomastix page . * ad hoc tribunal referebantur quaecunque non poterant definiri ab aliis vel ambigua erant , & varia judicia inferiorum judicum experiebantur ex praescripto legis deut. . , . ainsworth annot. on the place . weems christian synagogue pag. . * vide diodate & english diviues annotations on the place . * junius in locum . et si in omnibus aliis causis ad minimum duo testes ex lege requiruntur : tamen in religionis negotio unus testis ad questionem habendam sufficit . adeo vult deus magistratibus conservationem doctrinae commendatam esse . est autem appendix legis quae habetur supr . . * theodoret quaest . in levit . quaest . . deprthensus est quidam qui deum omnium blasphemauerat . nondum autem lex erat scripta de blaspemia propterea legislator hanc legem servari jussit . * vide nicol. lyram , babingt . in locum , lev. . , . * vid. lyram in num. . nesciebant tamen qua morte dehebat mori , quoniam modus mortis non fuit determinatus exod. . . ergo recluserunt eum quo usque scirent hoc per revelationem domini . ☜ * lutherus in deu. . , , . et h●nc locum miro conatu papistae ad suum idolū●raxerunt , ut papatum statu●rent . * one of the members of the assembly was the sole author of the vindication of the printed paper , entituled an ordinance for the preventing of the growth of heresies , and not . or . which worthy member could hee get any time from his often preaching and constant attendance on the assembly , wold ( i doubt not ) make hagiomastix not only a stripling , but a very child . * bilsons true difference between christian subjection and unchristian rebellion part . p. . ☜ * master goodwins modest & humble queres about the ordinance , quere . ☞ * anapologesiates antapologias , the preface to the reader . but for those opinions wherein i dissent from mr. edwards , and the generality of those whom he calls his godly orthodox presbyterian ministers , i have bestowed so much labour and travell of soul severall wayes to satisfie my selfe in the truth of them , and withal have received such abundant satisfaction from god for what i hold in them , in pregnant , strong , cleare and rationall demonstrations on the one hand , in distinct , cleare and home answer to all objections to the contrary that ever i met withall on the other hand , that if light be light , reason reason , sense sense , scriptures scriptures , i suppose i shall never be unsetled or shaken in them , though the whole world should rise up as one man to oppose me . and therefore being fully perswaded , resolved , and possest in my judgement soule and conscience that the way of the congregation is the truth . a quere concerning the church covenant , pag. . first , confident we are ( as confidence it selfe ( an make us ) that there is no commandement given to the churches for exact●ng any such covenant to those that are to be admitted into church fellowship with them . a letter of master john goodwins sent to master thomas goodwin , pag. , . confident i am that there is a light beyond your light in these matters , and which you are very capable of if your eyes by your long slumber be not over heavy to open . i professe in the sight of god , and in as great singlenesse and simplicity of heart as ever n● an in this world spake word unto you , that i doe as clearly apprehend error and mistake throughout the greatest part of your way , as i doe in this conclusion that twice two makes foure . the necessity of your covenant , prolix confession of faith , putting men to deliver their judgements in points of doubtfull disputations upon and before their admission into your churches , the power of the keyes and of ordination of pastors to be the right and inheritance of the whole body of the congregation , and of every member indifferently , and promiscuously the divine institution or peremptory necessity of your ruling elders , the necessity of widowes as officers in the church , the absolute necessity of one and the same governmant or discipline in all particulars whatsoever for all churchès in all times and places , a full and peremptory determination of all things whatsoever appertaining to the worship of god , with divers such like positions ( which are the very life , soule , and substance of your way ) i am at perfect peace in my thoughts , that you will never be able to demonstrate or prove from the scriptures to any sober minded or confidering man. master goodwins appendix in his preface to the reader , if the soules and consciences of men have any cause at all to blesse me , it is because i have clothed them with strength and confidence of the royall parentage and descent of the scriptures , and subdued their fears and jealousies of any subornation ( in that kind ) under their feet . ( nay did i not verily beleeve the scriptures to be the word of god , i would not for their sakes expose my selfe as now i doe : but that beleif i speak of , which hath reigned in me , and over me hitherto , and hath blessed me with such an abundance of peace of comfort in sufferings for it will not , &c. an apologeticall account of some brethren of the church whereof master goodwin is pastour , pag. . . the doctrines of the father and of the sonne , the involving whereof in the clouds of uncertainty , the said vindication most falsely and mal●tiously charges upon him , hath he brought into so cleare and open view , that we have seen the peace and everlasting salvation of our soules in them . every one of those fundan entail principe● of christian religion , which this gangren'd pen would perswade the world he denies or doubts of , hath he not only asserted in our hearing againe and againe , but proved them with such evidence and demonstration of the spirit , that our consciences were forced to fall flat before them , and to confesse that of a truth god was in them . * anonymi dissertatio de pace & concordia ecclesi●e . pag. , . apologia pro socinianis . fallunt & falluntur qui ad florentis istius aetatis exemplum nostra tempora exiguut . non iisdem remediis nunc afflicta ecclesiae valetudo restitui potest , quibus olim poter●● aegritudo submoveri . cum sanam esset ac robusta ecclesia in primo illo aetatis store & apostolorū choro superstite etiam violentis utiremediis ob vigorem suum par erat . nunc morbis ac senio confecta & debilis superanti jam aegritudini pene succumbit ●ec magis unquam periclitatur quam cum in crudeles medicos incidit . vide ibi plura . * gerard. joh. vossii theses theolog. de necessi . baptismi thes . . contra f●ust●̄ socinū . praeterea etsi concederetur christum de baptismo de . disse praeceptū , censet illud tantùm pertinuisse ad initia , quibus exrudi populo , & ceremoniis assueto , ecclesia christo colligebatur : denique eo etiam concesso , ut perpetuo debeat in ecclesia obtinere , negat tamen universale esse : nam cum aquae baptismus nihil aliud sit quam publica● & solennis quaedam professio nominis christi , minime hunc iis necessarium esse ait qui ex christianis , id est christum profitentibus , nascuntur : aut qui in christiana fide sunt educati . * but some commands that in regard of their manner , some degrees and adjuncts may not bind , yet in respect of their substance and the things themselves are perpetuall , of which i have spoken before p. , , , . & whoever does but consider the difference between the essence of a thing and the adjunct of a thing , how the essence is one thing and the adjunct another , and how some change may be in an adjunct , when not in the essence at all , will be satisfied . a vid. jun. annot. in ezr. . . and eng. annet . * calvin refut . e●●orum serveti p. . hujus rei illustre nobis exemplum spiritus dei proponit in nebuchad . nam ejus edictum celebrat daniel , quo capitalem paenam denunciat siquis in deum israel blasphemus fuerit . honor profecto non vulgaris crudeli tyranno habetur , quum prophetam suum dominus ad publicandas quaet tulit leges qua si praeconem assignat , & leges ipsas in acta sua refert , sacrisque suis oraculis annumerat . quid ? an spiritus sa●cti & prophetae elogio laudatur nebuchadnezer , qui veri dei gloriam pro imperio tutandam suscepit , ut ad impiam ejus prophanationem conniv●ant sancti magistratus ? an non potius his dominus sub profani regis persona quid agere ipsos deceat praescribit ? et c●rte quid magis praeposterum quam in ecclesiae sinu impune foveri fcelestas in deum c●nt●elias , quae in babylone paena capitali sanitae fuerunt ? ☞ * bulling , adversus anabaptistas l. . c. . c. . osiandri enchiridion c. . qust . . de magistratu . politico . * the errors and controversies in matters of the second table upon the , , and . commandements are the most exactly summed up by danaeus in his book de haeresibus , of any author in that kind that ever i met with . index● tertius de decalog . legis . de quinto praecepto , magistratum damnant & tollunt manichai , anabaptistae . magistratus ●utoritatem in negotiis religionis negant d●n●tistae . judicia capitalia à christian● homine exer●●i posse negant tertullianiss● . de sexto precepto , seipsos occiacre putant licere hominibus patriciani , circumcelliones . de septimo praecepto , vxores communes & promiscuas ess debere d●cent simoniani , nicolaitae , carpocratiani . incestus admittunt & probant catap●●yges . de octavo praecepto , propria quaedam à christianis poss●deri posse negant apostolici , jesuitae , anabaptistae , de nono praecepto , mentiri homini christiano licere putant messaliani , priscillianistae . ☜ * whites way to the church pag. . , , . neither can the jesuite assigne any company or state of men , whereby the church may be supposed to manifest her teaching but the same may be subject to error , and in experience hath erred ; as wee see in councels , doctors and all other meanes which she hath used in teaching us , except that of the scriptures only . willets second generall controversie concerning the church , second question whether the church may erre . pag. ▪ , . amesii . bellarm. enervat . tom. sec●nd . cap. . de eccles . visibilit . quaest . . an ecclesia● possit errare . rivet . catholic . orthodox . tractat. . quaest . . an ecclesia possit errare . cameron . praelect . de eccles . de eccles . infallibilit . , , &c. ☞ * chamier panstrat . cathol . de canon . & summa regula fidei . apostoli fuerunt infallibiles ex particulari assistentia spiritus , habuerunt particularem non habitualem assistentiam spiritus lutherus , spirtus sanctus non semper tangit corda propheta●um . * whitak . controv . . quaest . an assertion of the government of the church of scotland , second part cap. . master rutherfurds due right of presbyteries , acts. . a pattern of a juridicall synod . diodat . annot. in acts . the divine right of church government , first edit . page , , . because the manner of proceeding in this synod convened was not extraordinary and apostolicall , as when they acted by an immediate infallible inspiration of the spirit , in penning the holy scripture ( without all disputing , examining , or judging of the matter that they writ , so farre as we can read ) tim. . , . pet. . . . but ordinary presbyteriall and synodall by ordinary helpes and meanes ( as after shall appeare more fully ) stating the question proof and evidence from scripture what was the good and acceptable will of god , concerning the present controversie , and upon evidence of scripture , concluding , it seemed good to the holy ghost , and to us act. . . which words any assembly , having like cleare evidence of scripture for their determination , may without presumption use as well as this synod did . they proceeded deliberatively by discourses and disputes , deliberating about the true state of the question , and the remedy of the scandall : they proceeded after all their deliberative inquiries and disputes decisively to conclude and determine the matter . master cotton in his tractate of the keyes of the kingdom of heaven ( though of the independent way ) page , writes thus , of act● . neither did the apostles determine the matter ( as hath been said ) by the apostolicall authority from immediate revelation , but they assembled together with the elders to consider of the matter , verse . and a multitude of brethren together with them , verse , , . and after searching out the cause by an ordinary means of disputation , verse . peter cleared it by the witnesse of the spirit to his ministery in cornelius his family , paul and barnabas by the like effect of their ministery among the gentiles : james confirmed the s●meby the testimony of the prophets , wherewith the whole synod being satisfied , they determined of a judiciall sentence , and of a way to publish it by letters and messengers , in which they censure the false teachers as troublers of their church , and subverters of their soules , they reject the imposition of circumcision , a yoake which neither they nor their fathers were able to beare , they impose upon the churches none but some necessary observations , and them by way of that authoritie which the lord had given them , verse . * ames . medul . theolog. lib . cap. . cap. administrati● . novi testam . differt ab administratione priori , qualitate & quantitate . qualitas differens qua pollet , est vel claritas , vel libertas . ☜ * vrsini catechis . quaest . . de consolat . quae est vnica tua consolatio in vita & in morte . * vriah the priest made an idolatrous altar king. . , . willets synops . contro . of the scriptures . part quaest . &c. * vnto all i have said in page . and page . of the way of answering by vrim , i shall add as followes , dr. maines sermon of false prophets page . . the priest wore two precious stones in his breast-plate , cald the vrim and thummim , through which according as they did at times cast a bright , or di●●er lustre , god revealed his pleasure or displeasure to the people , and spoke to them by the sparcle of a iewell , as he did at other times by the mouth of a prophet . suppose the priest who wore the breast-plate should have belied his jewels , and when the people came to enquire of him should have interpreted a pale for a bright ray to the people ; or suppose he should have taken out the true and have placed two counterfeit iewe● in his breast plate , and should have taught them not to sparcle by the certainty and holinesse of their owne impartiall fires , but according to the desires and plots of the consulters . ainsworth on exod. . , . breast-plate in hebrew choshen , it hath affinitie with chashah , that signifieth silence , as implying a silent oracle to be seen on the breast of the high priest , rather then heard . the manner of asking councell is recorded by the hebrewes to be thus . when they inquired , the priest stood with his face before the a●k ; and he that enquired stood behind him with his face to the back of the priest ; and the inquirer said , shall i go up ? or shall i not ; and forthwith the holy ghost came upon the priest , and he beheld the breast pla●e , and saw therein by the vision of prophecie , goe up , or not goe up in the letters that showed themselves upon the breast-plate before his face . * a postscript or appendix to a treat . intituled hagiomastix page . , , . * si de judici● divino loquantur , affirmamus extare in ecclesia firmum & perpetuum judicium de omnibus fidei dogmatibus nimirum judicium dei loquentis in scripturis ; non enim argumentis refellendùs , sed interal 〈◊〉 reputandu● est , qui neg●t in scripturis de rebus fidei esse ab ipso 〈◊〉 sententiam , eamque intelligibilem , firmam & i●fallibilam pag. . * gerson in compend . theolo . fidei nec falsum , nec dubium subesse potest . davenant . de judice ac norma fidei pag. . omnia fidei dogmata ex parte materiae credendae debent habere certam , infallibilem & indubitabilem veritatem . * principium & norma fidei est veritas & revelatio divina , voet. select . disput . de petribus . davenant . de judice ac norma fidei , pag. . tolle authoritatem dei revelantis , cuicunque dogmati , poterit fortasse opinioni sive scientiae subesse , fidei autem christianae non poterit . baron . apol. pro disput . de formali objecto fidei tractat. . de revel . divina c . & . * cloppen . disputat . de cano. th●olog . thesis pri . certitudinem & infallibilitatem canoni● flagitat ipsa metaphora qua nomen translatum est a mensura non privata quavis sed publica & authentica illa ad quam lege & edicto magistratus commensuratae esse debent . rivet . catholi orthodox . tract . prim. quaest . . bellar. de verbo dei l. x. c. . regula catholicae fidei certa notaque esse debet : nam si nota non sit regula nobis non erit : si certa non sit nec regula quidem erit . daven . de jud. ac nor . fidei c. . regula fidei firma ac constans esse debet . a whitak . contro . . de scripturae authoritate , interpretatione perfectione . b chamier . panstrat . cathol . de cano. & summa regul . fidei . c rivet . cathol . orthod . tract . prim. de scripiurae perspicu . de judice controvers . de regul infallib . controvers de canone scripturae . d ames . bellar . encrvat . de confessione bellar . circa scripturam sacram de scripturae perspicuitate sufficientia de judice controversiarum e davenant . de judice ac norma fidei & cultus christiani . f whites way to the church from pag. . to . g gerard. tom. . de scriptura . h baron . apodix . cathol . tract . prim . caput . , . tract . . cap. . i macc. loc . commun . de script . author . perspicuit . interpret . k will. synops . the first generall controv . concerning the scriptures . l spanhem . thes . de script . contra anabaptist . m cloppenburg . disput . de can . theolog. cloppen . gangraen . anabapt . de scriptura sacra , & verbo deo interuo . * whitak . contro . prim . de scripturae perspicuit . quaest . . omniae quae sunt ad salutem necessaria apertis verbis in scripturis proponi . daven . de judice ac norma pag. . in omni controversia de doctrina fidei , aut praeceptis morum ad salutis necessariis , spiritum sanctum tam perspicue judicasse per scripturas , ut omnes intelligant ejus sententiam , quibus aures & oculi spirituales non desunt . verbi causa , de vera christi incarnatione sententiam de finitivameamque planam & evidentem tulit spiritus sanctus verbum caro factum john . . willets first generall controversie , quaest . . whites way to the true church , pag. . the jesuite can name no one necessary article of our faith , but the word teacheth it as plaine as himself can : as that there is one god , three persons , a generall refurrection and judgement , that jesus is the saviour of mankind , &c. rivet . cathol . orthod . tract . prim. quaest . . cloppenburg . disput de scriptura , macco . disput . . de perspicuitate scripturae , ames . bellar. enervat . tom. . de verbo dei , cap. . de scripturae perspicuitate , omnia illa quae sunt intellectu necessaria ad salutem , apertissimè in scripturis proponi . * spiritus sanctus non est scepticus , nec dubia aut opiniones in cordibus nostris scripsit , sed assertiones ipsa vita & omni experientia certiores ac firmiores . lutherus . * davenant de judice ac norma fidei cap. . cap. . * page . . * the generall councell of nice condemned the opinion of arrius , the generall councell of constantinople condemned the heresie of macedonius , the generall councell of chalcedon the heresie of eutyches ; a synod at ancyra , and others in asia condemned the heretick montanus . * cap. . aliud est posse errare , aliud de facto errare . possunt errare privati quilibet pastores , particularia etiam quaelibet concilia : non tamen idcirco intolerabilem errorem admittunt , qu●●ies popul● sibi subdito aliquid ex verb● divino deductum tanquam articulum fidei credendam proponunt . * qui autem ab infallibili veritate dirigitur in judicando , is judicat infallibiliter , illi etiam constat illud esse verum quod ex verb● did cit , utcunque non gaudeat judicio ●●fallibili . * posse alia legitima conci●● semiliter asser●re decreta sua esse d●●rata spiritus sancti , si huic concilio similia fuerint , & si eandem re●ulam servaverint , quam in hoc concilio servarunt & secuti sunt apostoli . si enim nihil nisi ex scriptur is statuerint & definierint quod in hoc concilio factum est , & si omnes quaestiones ad scripturas examinaverint , & scripturae vocom la omnibus fuis decretis secuti fuerint , tum possunt asserere , spiritum sanctum sit decrevisse . contro . quaest. . * nos vero facile concedimus concilia legitima quoad id quod requiritur intrinsecus , id est concilia vere fine fuco & fallacia congregata in nomine christi , non posse errare in iis quae sunt alicujus momenti . nam nos quidem fatemur ultro multa concilia non errasse imo fatemur concilia legitima ( quomodo illud a nobis supra explicatum est ) hoc est vere congregata in deinomine non errarei● rebus necessarii● . cam praelect . de eccles . p. * baron . apodix . cathol . tractat. . de authoritat . eccles . cap. . non 〈◊〉 simpliciter & absolute id quod parisienses de conciliorum infallibilitate docent . pie enim . & probabiliter credi potest concilia vera generalia & legitima , hoc est legitime convocata & procedentia , ita gubernari & dirigi à spiritu s. ut non errent in dogmatibus fundamentalib●● . dico hoc credi posse , quia certo constat talia concilia nunquam hactenus errasse in dogmatibus fundamentalibus . vide ibi plura . * praelect . de ecclesia pag. , . deinde in concilio si adsint viri pii & docti , aperiunt quae fuerunt clausa mutua● 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . id quod non aeque facile possit prae stari à singulia seorsim . id expectamus ut . i● concilo , in conventu doctorum & piorum virorum proferantur argumenta veritatis quae antea ignota fuere . praelect ▪ de eccles . tract . de infa●●●b . eccl. quoties aliquid decretum est a caetu quodam hominum , qui in aliqua authoritateconstituti sunt in ecclesia , facit hoc ut ne temere , & non adhibita accuratat & gravi observatione in rejiciatur . * pius ecclesiae filius non perperam ei insilit , sed ab ea reverentiali quodam pudore percussus abscedit . walensis tom. . lib. . cap. . * tene certum relinque incertum . * willets synops . first general contro . of the script . quest . . . part of the question . rivet . cathol . orthod . tract . . quaest . . * hom. . de laz maldonate in mat. . , . a august . de vnitat . eccles . cap. . tract . . in john evang . say not these things are so , because such a one did such and such miracles , but let thē prove their church by the canonicall books of the scripture , and by nothing els these are the demonstration of our cause , these are our foundation , these are our grounds upon which we build b whitak . contro . . quaest . . c. . c camer . praelect . de eccl. p. , . d rivet . cath. orthod . tract . . quaest . . p. , . e ames . bellar. enervat . de notis ecclesiae . f willets synops . . gener. controv. concerning the church . quaest 〈◊〉 . of the power of working miracles . g whites way to the 〈◊〉 church pag. , . h g●rad de eccles . sect. . from p. to . * maldon . comment in luc . . v. . * pa●strat . cathel . de canon . & summa regul . fid. neque enim quicquid est infallibile , estregula summa fidei , quiae angeli sunt infallibiles , apostoli etiam fuerunt infallibiles ex particulari assistentiae spiritus . & tamen neutri sunt , aut fuerunt ecclesiae summa regula : hoc nor paulus docuit . gal. . . a● haec indignae sunt quae dicantur de regula fidei & praesertim summa regula ; quae nulli rei itae comparari debet , ut ind● coerceatur , alias desinit esse regula : sed potius ut inde sint omniae judicanda . quare praeter infallibilitatem aliud quid dam necessarium est ut fiat regula , nimirum 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , hoc autem est ut summae sit suaeque authoritatis ; non autem subalternae aliundeque emendicate . summo quid praeferri potest ? at chrysostomus angelis ipsis in negotio fidei preferandam dixit scriptur●m : si non summi , ergo nec fumma regula , & tamen infallibiles , non igitur quicquid est infallibile , summa est regula fidei . * oecumenius in locum . quoniam autem rebus ipsis & experientiae cognovimus quae fuerunt à prophetis pronunciata , firmiorem , inquit , per haec judicamus prophetiam ipsorum : nam resipsae consequntae sunt sermones ac oracula . aquinas in locum , vel dicit firmiorem quia visioni contraadicere poterant , quae facta fuit in secreto , sed prophetiae nullus contradicere audebat . vid. annot. of our engl. divines on the place . * vid. whitak . contro . . de script , author . quest . . illud verbum 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ad rem spectat , significat enim scripturam firmissima maxima que authoritate esse praeditam . * rollock in joh. . , . varie sentit tubra de audita voce illa alii pejus alii melius sentiunt , utrique tamen a vero aberrant . data fuit haec vox coelo ut ait dominus postea illorum causa , ut hoc quasi mi raculo & pertento admoniti , crederent eum esse missum à deo & messiam sed adeo excaecati sunt & indurati ut tamen de messia● nihil cogitaverant . vid. calvin . & maldon . in locum . * page . . * min. cel. senens . sect. tert. pag. . * zepper , mosai . leg. explanas . lib. . cap. . ceremonialia typica rerum fuerunt aut praeteritarum recordationes ent futurarum praefignificationes , rerum praeteritarum ut anima paschatis celebratio , manna in arca foederis asservata , aneus scrpens . futurarum ut sacrificia , &c. * bloudy tenet washed and made white in the bloud of the lambe , p. . . * a reply to mr. williams his examin●● . 〈◊〉 . * walaeus de sacr . script . per spie . pag. . synops . purior . theol. pag. . weems christian synagogue , p . it is a dangerous thing when the words are properly to be taken , for to take them figuratively . * fuit enim haec elim satanae infignis versutia , quam tamen nemo prorsus ex veteribus , quod eorum pace dix erim , satis animadvertit , ut , quumnon posset scripturam ex ecclesia prorsus ●●●cere , vanis tamen allegoriis totam redderet inutilem & mythologicam , adeo ut ne unus quidem sit in scripturia apex qui non sit istis allegor●● contaminatus : quod etiamnum iter bodie libertin : & anabaptistae ingrediuntur . sed hoc velim isti nobis often dant , ex quo tandem scripturae loco commentum istud de iudicialium legum umbris & figuris didicerint . nam in ceremoniis , atque adeo in quibusdam etiam bistoriis . ex scripturae auctoritate hac agn●sco . a zepper . mosaic . leg . forens . explaxat . lib. . cap. . b rivet . explic. decalog ▪ pag . , . c burgesse vindic . legis pag. , , . * stratagem . satan lib. . pag. , . . min. cels . disput . de haeretic . coercend . sect. . , , , . hagiom pag. , . * francis . jun. analys . cap. . duo argumenta ad apostasiam pertinentia in hoc capite exponuntur . prius est de auctoribus sollicitantibus ad apostasiam v. . posterius est de reis apostasiae , qui se abducia vero dei cultu perpessi fuerint reliquo capite . * jun. analyt . expl. in deut. . differt . autem haec lex ab ea quam supra cap. . exposuimus , quod illic agitur de apostatis ( ut vulgo loquuntur ) dogmatizantibus , & ad apostasiam sollicitantibus ; hic vero de idololatris simpliciter . * walaei oper. fol. de script . interpret . pag. . * reply to mr. williams examination . p. . * jun. analyt . expl . deut. . . consistent due illi viri quibus est controversia , coram jehova , id est , non coram templo . domini , sed coram judicibus à domino datis , coram quibus quum homines comparent dicuntur sistere sese coram domino , & quos c●nsulentes dicuntur dominum consulere , exod. . deut. . a calv. in zach. . . jam satis clare ostendit propheta de falsis doctoribus hoc locum debere intelligi , quia mendacium locu tus es in nomine jehovae . b arias mont in zach. . nomen nebiim non vates modo , sed stulte loguaces garrulosque significat ; eos nimirū quid vanae orationis cui nulla virtutis ratio reipsa subest , artifices sunt , atque sermonis & verborum praestigiis populū capiunt . c gualt . in locum at de falsis doctoribus locum debere in telligi ex sequen tibus patebit . d fabrit . in zach. . , . e diod. the prophets , namely the false prophets , by which are meant all seducers and teachers of lies f english annot . the prophets , namely the false prophets , by which are meant all seduces and teachers of lies * jun. analyt . explic. in deut. . p. . causae hujus legis & 〈…〉 gravissimae expenunter di●● : quarū prior atque poten●ior est respe●● 〈…〉 of respect●● 〈◊〉 . * bez. de haeret . à magist . puniend . p. . ☜ * king. * river . in decal . p. . in omnibus , praeceptis decalogi synecdocben esse agnoscendam ; qua specie una proposita intelliguntur omnes sub eodem genere . vide plur . * bez. de haeret . à magistr . puniend . . sunt autem hujus defectionis varia testimonia publica , que rum etsi praecipua tantum , & quae 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 accidunt in legihus commemorantur , ipsa tamen legis ratio unversali formula concepta est : itaque in genere valere debet adversus eos qui à vera religione deficiunt , & alies ad defectionem solicitant . * haebreis , pseudo-propheta quemvis falsum doctorem significare solet , bergii dissert . octae de haeres . esusque jud. * fabrit . in zach. . , . * ride● igitur qui haeretici , etiam pseudo-prophetae saepe appellantur , de quibus math. . . math. . . bergii dissertat . octa. de haeres . . * voer . pars prim . alte a , de necessit● tranitat . sequeretur fidem christia nā objecto fidei & caltus sai non distingui , à gentili , judaica , mahumedistica . sienim necessario non credat in vnitate trinitatem , in trinitate vnitatem , jam redigitur ad theologiam naturalem , & symbolizat cum pseude-religionibus modo memoratis . addimus nunc tantū de mahumedica , eam ex vagis & incertis neo-scepticorum ●ypothesibus vix posse convinci apostasiae absolute exitialis ; ca enim praeter pietatem & probitatem , statuit fidem unius dei & christi tanquam magni prophetae & legati dei ex virgine nati , immo tanquam messiae : ita ut in his fundamentalibus non admodum dissentire videantur ab anti-trinitariis francisci davidis sectatoribus . et socinianos esse idololatras , & quidem turpissimos , quippe qui ex formula religionis suae praeter unum illum solum natura deum conditorem omnium , divine cultu adorant christum natura 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , contra gal. . . coll . cum jer. . . libertas exercitii seu caetuum ecclesiasticorum celebratio publica aut privato publica non est concedenda socinianis , quia est idololatria multo evidentior , & magis theoret●ca ac crassa quam ex grataest invocatio mariae & sanctorum in papatu . voet. disputat , de gentilismo . videlii tractat. de deo synagog . * macco . disputt . de lege jud. thes . perfectio legum judicialum requirit ut statuamus nullum casum accidere posse , qui non posset ex illius analogia ( nam de similibus idem est judicium ) de finiri . exempli gra●ia exod. . . habetur haec lex : quum retexerit quis foveam , autquum foderit quis foveam , deinde non operuerit ●am , itaque ceciderit illuc bos aut asinus . dominus ille foveae rependito , pecuniam restituito domino illius , quod autem mortuum fuerit ejus est● . hactenus verba legis , sed quid si in soveam talem indicerit ●vis aut equas , fecile est intelligere ex ipsa analogia & similitudine rerum , idem juris hic observandum . * vid. jun. a●alyt . expl. numer in cap. . * jun. analy● . expli . deutero . cap. . nam de docentibus agit moses priore parte cap. sive palam , sive clam : de●is vero qui auctoritate publica tantam impietatem defendunt posteriore capite . zepper . leg. mosaic . explan . lib. . cap . leges de apostasia à deo & vera religione su●t aut de pseudo propheta publice d●cente ; aut de claudestino seductore vel privata solicitations ad apostasiā aut de publica defectione totius civitatis . ☜ * jun. analy● . expl. in deut. . . in hoc legis capite tria concurrere , jus moraie , ceremoniale atque politic●m . quod juris moralis est illum secundū substantiam per manet ac pro inde sequitur tū , qui reus est tantae impietatis & contumaciae ac de scribit moses impium esse & paenas dare impictatis oportere , ex divino & naturali jure : quod autem ceremoniale est , id in postrema ●ujus capitis parte non habet locu● , ubi civitatem deleri & omnia devoveri anathemati p●●e cepit dominus &c. * preface of the bloudy tenet of persecution for cause of conscience . * irene . lib. . advers . haeres . valent. cap. . * epiphan . panar . haer. . * socin . tract . de authorit . script . ostorod . institut . p. . cap. . * schlussell . catal. haereti● . de antinomis . * bulling . advers . anabapt . lib. . cap. . spanhem . disput . . anti-anabapt . de usu scriptur●● v. testam . in eccles . christ ▪ thes . . * m. cottons bloudy tenet washed , p. . * m. caudrey , mr palmer , chapt . . pag. , , , . , , , , , . ☜ * muscul . loc . commun . de magistr . . . ergone tantae authoritaeti ac potestati non licebit , quod cuique patrifamilias in do●● sua licet ? * see m. pryns sword of christian magistracy supported . pag. . * bilsons second part , pag. , , . third part . object . answ . ☜ ☜ ☞ * zepper . de leg . mosai . lib. . cap. . cap. . de pseudo prophetis & haereticis . ratio ido●ea & sufficiens nulla afferri potest , cur dei majestas & ecclesiae authoritas minoris apud christiaanos momenti & pondeis esse debeat , quamapud judaeos olim fuerit . imo quo illustrius deus se per filium suum quam per prophetas olim patefecit , eo minus frigiditas illa & tepedita● excusari potest , si minori religionis nostrae studio teneamur minusque eam tu●am●r . * ravenous beasts cald by the prophet , and ravening wolves by christ . * porro ne qui hinc carnalis licentiae & impunitatis spem conciperent , ulterius ad ▪ hac ▪ progressurum dicit istum gratiae ▪ in christo exhibitae effectum , & per hunc simul 〈◊〉 medio auferendum fore quicquid dei verbo & verae religioni adversatur . * chananaei vocabulum merca torem significat & ita illud in praesenti , vetus interpres reddit , & bene quidem . ergo de mercatoribus seu nundinatoribus sacrorum propheta loquitur qui vel externum cultumsibi quaestū faciunt vel ex spiritus sancti donis nundinationem instituunt . sunt hiprecul ab ecclesia arcendi , quia & dei cultum corrumpunt , & fidem simpliciu mevertunt , & christi meritū evacuant . vide plura . * vid. annotat . of engl. divines on the place . * cancer . praelect . de repudio pag. . * chemnit . loc . com. de paupert . , , . deus in veteri testamento fuit & theologus & legislator . alibi enim tradit , quomodo servi endum est deo in justitia & sanctitate coram ipso . alibi vero pro externa societate vitae civilis in republi israelit . certan quasdam politicas constitutiones praescribit isti popul● . * vid . bulling . aduers . anabapt . . book . chapt . * barroughs heart-divisions . pag. . * muscul . de legibus ad classem hanc moraralium pra●ceptorium pertinentia multa quidem in literis prophetam quoque leguntur . fuerunt enim illi in plenisque mosaicae legis interpretes * cap. . p. , . the prayers of the church for . yeeres in the primitive times , that kings might come to the knowledge of the truth , and they lead peaceable and quiet lives in all godlinesse and honesty ( which saint paul in nero● time exhorted unto tim. . ) were not answered nor accomplished til constantines time , when the church brought forth a manchild . * socrat. schol. lib. . cap. . robins . against helwisse of magistracie , p. , . a reply to the answer of the man of no name to his grace the duke of buckingham's paper of religion, and liberty of conscience by g. c. ... care, george. approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; 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(eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) a reply to the answer of the man of no name to his grace the duke of buckingham's paper of religion, and liberty of conscience by g. c. ... care, george. [ ], p. printed by john leake, for luke meredith ..., london : . attributed to george care. cf. blc. reproduction of original in huntington library. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng buckingham, george villiers, -- duke of, - . -- short discourse upon the reasonableness of men's having a religion. short answer to his grace the d. of buckingham's paper concerning religion, toleration, and liberty of conscience. religious tolerance -- church of england -- early works to . - tcp assigned for keying and markup - aptara keyed and coded from proquest page images - taryn hakala sampled and proofread - taryn hakala text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion a reply to the answer of the man of no name , to his grace the duke of buckingham's paper of religion , and liberty of conscience . by g. c. an affectionate friend , and true servant of his grace the duke of buckingham's . london , printed by john leake , for luke meredith , at the king's head , at the west end of st. paul's church-yard , mdclxxxv . a reply to the answer of the man of no name , &c. it it the case of truth to be opposed , but to prevail ; and of error , though defended , to be vanquish'd . ill causes cannot but be ill maintained : they may look like true , but that is art , which cannot change nature . an ass can never be a doctor , nor a fool a solomon : bulk given no weight , nor sound , good sense . and to say true , it was never much better prov'd , than in the answer of the duke of buckingham's paper : at first it amaz'd me with a flash of words ; the second reading i came to my self ; and at the last , i saw , they came to nothing : began with false wit , and ended with noise and fumble . and to shew you a little the man in his talents , stile , arguments , and humour , ( for his own book does it best at large ) take what follows . i will begin with his beginning . that i have written this pamphlet ( says he ) is plain . but who this ( i ) is that writ it , is not plain ; for he has not told us his name . however , 't is plain , 't is writ ; and so it is , that his apology is against himself ; which is , that a sore always wants a plaister . in which we must either understand , he confesses the wound the duke has given atheism and violence , to which he consecrates a plaster ; or that his book is in it self a sore , and he has a mind to cover it . if the first , he has an ill time of it : if the last , 't is non-sense . but this is but a part of his excuse ; he thinks he may answer him , because the duke won't answer himself , and act both plaintiff and defendant ; as they do , that turn with the times ; shift principles for livings ; and love to be parson of bray still . but whatever that noble duke does , the answerer has that faculty ; for he inveighs against reason , pag. , . and yet p. . sends his reader in a warm fit to reason , not only to chuse and establish to himself a religion , but to convince others by . and now he falls on with a tantivy — how pernicious an animal ( says he ) this mountain and wild conscience hath been to england , is too well known , and how fatal toleration would be . what stuff is here ! could a man fetch any thing more savage out of the highlands of scotland , or from the lakes of canada ? one would think , 't were writing in shamm , and a definition in burlesque : some cypher , but that there is no key to it ; for that a mountain should be an animal , and conscience a mountain , has neither matter , figure , rhetorick , nor common sense in it . which , indeed , is the pitiful end of all quacks and pretenders . and hence he turns vintner too : for in a moment he reads you a lecture of ferments and lees , and the best way of turning the wine of ( mount ) hope into the vinegar ( of the valley ) of despair . the gentleman , that he might run far enough from the duke's lenity , has pass'd the line , and talks antipode to common experience . for with him toleration pricks ; persecution does not . i had thought that sweet and soft things had prevented souring ; and that therefore eager and lean wines were fed with the richest malagoes . but the meaning of this admirable simile , is , the gentlemen of his clan would keep the wine to themselves : every body knows they love it . but i must needs say , 't is a churlish and guzling trick , to drink all : right good-fellows are freer of their liquor . and besides , it shews a mighty ill nature , that other folks drinking should make it taste sowre with them : 't is not the liquor , but the palate : the gall overflows ; the humor vitiates the tast . calvin's predestination , in his opinion , p. . is not worse natured than this. thunder sometimes turns liquor ; but i never heard it of fair and gentle weather : certainly , it must be an unnatural subject , upon which the most natural things have an ill operation . and yet in some ill temper'd children we have seen the seeds of this sowre humor ; who would not eat or wear a thing , if others must have it as well as themselves . however , this doctrine very naturally arises from the text , that some men , if they may have their humor , will be as sweet as wine ; and if not , will turn as sowre as vinegar . the use and application i leave to his majesty . but this is not all ; he explains himself upon this point pag. . where he dreads the church of england's receeding from her active loyalty in opposing diffenters , and the terrible and unavoidable consequences of their betaking themselves to a passive loyalty . i hope he has made more bold than welcome with that venerable name ; since 't is to say , the church of england's loyalty is to serve their own turn , and the prince's no longer than he will ruin others to humor her. that she opposes dissenters for that reason : and is uncharitable to all others : that though she asserts free-will , she will force other mens . that she is not content with her hoours , imployments and profits , unless others are reprobated to a civil damnation : that she knows not where to stop , nor where to end her resentments and severities : that law only maintains her , and her establishment takes rise from humane institution , and by humane force is upheld : nay , that if she may not have her will , let the black box prevail , and the oxford-men come in if they will , fight dog , fight bear , we will be quiet ; we will be passive . these are the consequences of such resolves : things too harsh and idle to imagine of a society of so much wisdom and integrity ; and therefore this gentleman to be thought officious , if not scandalous in this attempt . and i hope her best members will think , that more reason to the duke , and discretion to the church , had done better : for scandalum cleri with the one , ought to sit as uneasie , as scandalum magnatum with the other . i have done a little to snew his folly and uncharitableness ; more follows : and he that ruus may almost read it ▪ he wonders , his grace the duke of buckingham should become a champion for whiggism , p. . and indeed so do i too : for i am sure , it must be very lately ; and 't is an ill time to begin in . but is this his discretion , ( pag. . ) that was to defend him from a scandalum magnatum ? but why a whig ? it seems it is , because he is for toleration . a fine conclusion : and yet he makes this , but half a whig neither . for he tells us in his character , that persecution makes up t'other half : so that a right whig is , a tolerating persecuter . upon the whole matter then , the duke is but half a whig ; and his answerer it t'other half , who tells us , that his opinions have ever been diametrically opposite to those of his grace's paper ; and whose book it self is persecution . and is it not a pretty thing to consider that the bill and answer , the plaintiff and defendant ( as he calls them ) should make up one whig ? but to do it , when whiggism is super-annitated , and looks like a cast mistris , and is contemn'd of all , heightens the man's admiration : and perhaps he knew the duke , when he did not use to make such stale choices too . but to make him amends , the man places it to his compassion , which is yet satyr enough upon himself , that not only has none , but makes it whiggish in that noble person to pity , age and necessity . mad he must be , or he would not yield away so great a vertue to so ill a thing . but is she super-annuated and cast ? pray , why then feared in one part , and loved so fondly in another , by this knight of the robe ? she is but half cast ; the toleration side is only super-annuated with him ; t'other is not above eighteen yet , fresh , strong , and ruddy , in his desires at least : and that she may live longer a-that side , he is blowing breath through his quill , as fast as he can . and to say true , he has air enough , to help her : but when all is done , he will make an ill mistress of her ; for she is to be old and cast ( if not dead ) a one side still : this is her palsie , and his phrensie . i am of opinion , when he thinks what he has done , he will ( like his young gallant , pag. . ) cry , a pox upon consequences , i hate consequences . so pragmatical so incongruous , and so indiscreet has the gentleman been in his hasty attaque . but to come to the body of his pretended answer . after telling us , p. . he will not anatomize , nor dissect each nerve and muscle of his grace 's paper , ( though else where it has neither , in his opinion ) and that he hates hashing of books , and serving them up with limon and anchovies , turning chryrurgeon and cook in a breath : he says , he will deliver his thoughts in a lump ; as if he had a mind to a pudding more than a hash . the truth is , he has little shape , and less life : and therefore the gentleman has in one word , whiglike , turn'd gossip to his own chits with more propriety , than is in all his book beside . but let 's look upon his lump a little further . first , he says , his grace has taken an improper way to confute the wity atheist , or establish religion . ( and why so ? ) because the changeableness of the world does not disprove its eternity , any more than the mutations of his grace's body alters him from being that george d. of buckingham , that he was forty years ago . but the d. of buckingham does not pretend to be the same man that he was forty years ago ; and would give this gentleman , ten thousand pound to make him so . and to say true , he that says , a changing world is eternal , is not many removes from that which we call a changling . for though a man be the same , as to his faculties and properties : yet we have fresh spirits and flesh ; and this world has its alterations and renewings too . what the first matter was , and how formed , and which way it subsists , are much beyond us ! yet the more we look into them , the more we are led from the regular motions and seasons of the fabrick we see with the distinct kinds and species of creatures therein , to conclude and admire a prior and superior being . a man that is a creature of time , may be said to be , and in some cases not to be the same : for he is not the same in the same being always ; but an eternal thing cannot be so varied . and 't is fallacious to argue from a man's being the same man , under changes , to the world 's being eternally the same world under changes ; since it were to say , that a thing were the same in that in which it changes : for that were to be in that which is not , or is not any more that which it was ; the supeamest non-sence a man can be guilty of . the duke was not strict in this matter ; and his answer is stricter with him , than wise ; especially when he faults him in a thing disputable , and yet promises not to disturb , but improve his arguments for a god. but so unhappy is the genius of this gentleman , that he frequently breaks his word , though be breaks his head with it . there are but three of four things the duke goes upon ; that the world did not make it self : that he that made it is god : that he was dignified man with something more excellent , than what belongs to other creatures : that this makes him look and hope beyond death ; therefore immortality , probable : that those that do well , shall be happy ; the contrary , miserable : that to this choice they are free and uncompell'd . and lastly , that none should extinguish men's religious impressions , by forcing them against their perswasion . these sober and worthy thoughts might have been better treated . 't is true ( he says , pag. . ) his notions are very fine , and many of them very natural and true ; but not too logical . no matter for that ; he writ like a gentleman , and not a pedant . but to see , how true this person is to himself , within six lines after the character of many natural and true notions ; he tells us , without blushing , though not without confusion , that the consequences which necessarily follow the duke's conceptions , are greatly to the disadvantage not only of religion , but of the politick frame and government of the world. i cannot imagine , which way ; and he has carefully avoided to inform me . but i cannot see , how the government of the great turk , and the great mogul are concern'd in the duke of buckingham's book ? they may indeed , if they could read it , because he recommends to all men the christian religion , ( pag. . ) and , if i know any thing , the consequence of his contradictory assertion , is , that the mogul must be infidel still , and the great turk must be a mahometan still . for this good christian goes upon this principle , that the religion establish'd by law , ought therefore to be conformed to of all ; and consequently , liberty even to christian's consciences is dangerous to the political frame of that government that is not christian . he proceeds to oppose the duke's deduction , in reference to the worship of god , pag. , & . for in truth ( says he ) if his argumentation be allowed , here is as fair a plea for the alcoran , as the new testament ; for pythagoras's golden verses , as st. pavl's epistles . for , if i be not mistaken , in what his grace calls that part of us , which is nearest a-kin to the nature of god , and the instinct of a deity , this must be humane reason ; not as regulated by any publick and politick reason of a community , but as every private person's reason shall dictate . but how unjust and precarious is all this ? first , assert ; and then , if he mistakes not , the duke meant so . but if the duke meant not so , then he is mistaken : and the duke could not mean , as he states his understanding of it . for though he takes leave to mistake the duke , the duke does not mistake himself : there is not one word of humane reason in the question , nor is humane reason that instinct of the deity . we have a natural capacity to apprehend divine things ; but 't is that instinct , which gives us the religious use of it . all men that have eyes , have the capacity of seeing ; but without light they cannot see . pray , who was he that said ; there is a spirit in man , but the inspiration of the almighty gives vnderstanding ? and that , whatsoever may be known of god , is manifested in man ? rom. . by what else is it , that the prophet declares , that god tells unto man his thoughts ? and st. paul expresly says , that those that had not the law , became a law unto themselves , ( by what ? if not by this instinct , this synteresis ? ) their conscience accusing or exeusing them before god. and st. john goes farther , who says ; if our hearts condemn us , god is greater ; but if our hearts condemn us not , then have we boldness before god. and does this make as much for the alcoran , as for the scripture ? and pythagoras's writings , as st. pauls's epistles ? the duke spoke to a peculiar rank of men : wits without much religion , to give religion the beginnings of credit with them : he did not say , that was enough ? that scripture or other external helps were useless , or not requisite : and yet , when all is done , we must chuse for our selves , and not by the political reason of community ; or else we shall believe upon authority and not upon conviction ; which was not the christian way . st. paul bids us , pray with understanding ; and if so , surly , our understanding ought to be satisfied , to whom , and how to pray . and this gentleman makes it an error , not to pray knowingly ; and if so , certainly we should have some reason for our hope too . and therefore , i cannot perswade my self to believe , that noble peer writ like a minor , when he proceds to this deduction ? that it is one of the greatest crimes a man can be guilty of , to force us to act against that instinct of religion ; and something a kin to the sin against the holy ghost . this notion the gentleman throws with scorn at the quakers , ( an honest and well-meaning people ; ) and if this be a kin to their doctrine , they are sounder than he that despises them . and to say true , he does them greater honour , than it may be , he is aware of . but why not believe upon conviction ? for , whatever is not of faith , ( st. paul tells us ) is sin : and force upon any man's conscience , must overthrow the reason of this fear , faith and hope . for how dark and feeble any man's conscience is , force brings no light no knowledge : it may distract , doubt , and so damn . but i cannot enough admire at the conclusions this gentleman draws from this most inoffensive and orthodox expression . the first is this : that reason is the guide of every man's religion . this is spurious : for , though he that embraces a religion without reason , has no more religion than my horse ; yet a man 's own reason so rectified , is not the guide of man in his religion : for his reason is that which is to be guided . his second is yet more extravagant , viz. that divine revelation is not necessary to salvation . in which he has bid boldly ; for there is not a word in the duke's discourse about it . he asserts the divine instinct ; that it inclines and disposes men to be religious ; that they are to be commended , that beat a sincere respect to it . but not a word , that men should not crave further help , or read the holy scriptures , that contain our revealed religion . on the contrary , he tells us ; he therefore wav'd the vse of them in this discourse , because of the persons to whose condition he calculated it . were it not a sine conclusion in this doctor , to say , a man that goes to rochester shall never come to canterbury , though it be in the way , and the better part of it ? just so reasonable his consequence is against the duke . but he advances in his humour of perverting his words ; for the third consequence he draws in his name , is this : that it is a most horrid sin , to lead men out of errors , ( pag. . ) when there is not one word of leading in the question . for the duke says , [ to force , ] and he infers , to lead . his words are ; that it is one of the greatest crimes a man can be guilty of , to force us to act or sin against that instinct of religion ; and something a-kin to the sin against the holy ghost . the duke says , to force men to sin ; he says , to lead men out of errors : as if leading and forcing were the same ; when one is the way of perswasion , and the other of fines and prisons . i cannot tell what this gentleman would not say ; he may as honestly apprehend a beggar on the road , for an high-way-man . his fourth and last consequence he bestows upon this noble peer , is this , pag. . that men , who believe a god , and follow the dictates of reason in his worship , may be saved in any , in all religions ; provided they know not a better . and what , if he had said so ? it had shewn his charity . does not god wink in times of ignorance ? and what is knowing no better , but a state of ignorance ? is there no allowance for times , places and conditions ? certainly , this man thinks , aristotle and st. paul are as much below him , as he is above the duke of buckingham . this is riding tantivy , through thick and thin . but to answer his short , yet full : this charge upon his grace , charges himself ; first , that faith in god , and the dictates of reason , can swallow all sorts of religion ; for he excepts not the most idolatrous ; yet sets up reason elsewhere , to judge of true religion , ( pag. , . ) and men must leave reason , when they fall under superstition and idolatry . secondly , that this hero is for chusing his religion without reason : and that 's not worth a fig , ( with his leave . ) thirdly , that the duke does not prefer christianity , by the course of his deductions : which he plainly does , pag. . but after he hath shewn the duke's weakness or mistake ( in his opinion ) to make him abler than he found him , and the book worthier the reader 's notice ; with a modesty , almost equal to his reason , he tells us : now , if i were to discovrse an atheist , ( pag. . ) and : if i had been to follow his grace's blow . i would have urged this ; and , i would have done that , &c. by which , i perceive , this gentleman is better natur'd than sir jo. falstaff , that being call'd upon for a reason for what he said , answer'd ; that if reasons were as rife as black-berries , he would not give him one . i have seen cowards fight thus stoutly : now , sir , ( says he ) here i could have you , sir ; and there i could have you , sir : and , if i strike you , sir , infallibly i hit you , sir : and , if i hit you , sir , you 'll feel it , sir : are not you of my mind , sir ? this gentleman wanted something ; and though the duke be no minor , he has a mind to play the senior upon him , and use him so : and what a fine time he would have , to be ward to such a jewel ? such coxcombs i have seen in my time ; for there is not so true a mark of that animal , as officiousness upon mistake , to praeter do , or over-do a thing . look you , sir ; upon my word , sir ; you are out , sir ; you mean this , sir ; i know your meaning , sir , as well as if i were in you , sir ; alas , sir , there is a better way far , sir ; and then , sir , you don't hit it neither , sir ; for , sir , if you aim at the end , sir , you must aim at the means , sir ; and that i pretend to know , sir , as well as any man , sir ; and therefore , sir , by your favor , sir , if i had been to have follow'd your blow , sir , i would have done no body knows what , sir ; gramarcy doctor . 't is pity to think , what pains some men take to play the fool. his second great head ( and little wit ) is about the anti-christianism of persecution , opposing the duke's notion of it , thus pag. , , , . and first , he says , that though to punish professors of the true religion , for that only , whilst inoffensive in all things to the civil government , is real persecution , and truly anti-christian ; as that of the primitive christians by the heathen roman emperors ; yet to punish dissenters , as papists and phanaticks , is not so ; because they are in the wrong , and offensive to the government . this in a lump ( as he calls it ) and perhaps a little better collected than his was . in all which he begs the question of the roman emperors for the christians ; and of the dissenters for their adversaries ; though upon differing terms . for the heathen emperors had antient rites to plead , and the establish'd law of the empire , against the progress of christianity ; and that is all this gentleman has said here for himself , and against them . for he undertakes not to prove the points controverted true against the dissenters ; but urges the kn●cking argument of the jews , we have a law , and by our law he ought to die . nay , he sends the duke to lewis the fourteenth , ( pag. . ) to ask , if it be safe tolerating another religion than his own : by which he determines the case against the persecuted protestants there , lest their indulgence should exemplarily make way for ours to the dissenters here . is not this a dainty protestant , that can cherish cruelty against men of his own religion abroad , rather than not act it at home upon dissenters ? this is to make religion a politick interest , and to answer worldly ends : a greater argument for atheism , than any he has offer'd against it . the primitive christians had died idolaters upon this principle : for authority , not conviction , with him all along concludes the point . he begs the question of the dissenters ; for he argues nothing about the grounds of dissent , but the law ; 't is the religion by law establish'd : and why not by the bible ? but that it yields not to it the present advantages of force and worldly authority . now ( as he says ) if i had been to dispute them , and follow his blow , i would have evinc'd their error , before i would have pronounc'd my judgment . but they are factious , seditious , and dangerous to the government ; therefore severe laws were made against papists , priests and jesuits on the one hand , and phanaticks on the other . suppose this were as he frowardly clamors ; is it to be thought , that they would be dangerous , if they were easie , and so endanger themselves ? they know better . and we see , this gentleman fears the church's receeding in her loyalty , if there be but indulgence to dissenters ; making her eye evil , if the governments be good . pray , what then would she do , if she were persecuted as they are ? can more , with justice , be expected from hereticks and schismaticks , than from the orthodox ? if they were more patient , i should begin to fear , they would be quickly more orthodox too . but i cannot tell how to think that men in their wits would forfeit ease when they have it ; though to get it they might be indiscreet . and one thing i must say , roman catholicks have been loyal in england and holland , and bresbyterians in france and the german principalities . so that 't is not necessarily true , they are not seditious , as they are dissenters : men go by their interests . the gentlemen that tore the king's declaration of indulgence from him , were high church-men ; and they opposed his political capacity to his natural , on purpose to overthrow that act of grace , by which distinction the late civil war was made ; so that . overtook . or that return'd to . and who knows not , that they were such as hardly knew how to pray , but out of our liturgy ; that attempted to exclude the presumptive heir to the crown upon the score of his religion . and though this jehu drives so furiously upon dissenters on that account , if he will think ( which i fear he seldom does ) he will find that an heir is but a subject ; and the same law governs properly a-like in this kingdom to all ranks of subjects . and that some of the same gentlemen , that formerly shook small folks property for non-conformity , had lately a mind , to sacrifice the present king 's for dissent . wherefore let us make men easie , take temptations out of their way , and not lay stumbling-blocks before weak or peevish people , nor pinch them with those burdens or yokes , that our fathers could hardly bear , and we need not doubt a friendly success . it is by this nameless author objected in a career of criminations , that this may suit a republick , ( pag. , & . ) but is dangerous to a monarchy . but not half so much in my opinion , as his objection is . for , doubtless , monarchy has as extended and saving a bottom to live upon , as any republick in the world ; nay , rather the power of more mercy , favour and indulgence . for the number of subjects is the glory and strength of a king ; and that which makes the people easie , makes the government so to the monarch . 't were lavish to prefer a common-wealth to make it more capable of good to the various conditions of mankind than monarchy . it is therefore his little skill in politicks as well as religion , that makes him quote the practice of the french king ( p. . ) for no body knows yet the consequence : his cake is but dough still : 't is early day with the project : see if his son , ay , if he don't feel it yet . for uniformity is a mean recompence for a thin and poor country . what might not an union of interests and affections , under so great a prince as we have , recover and establish in the world ? wonders ; for miracles come from heaven . instead of this , old sores are daily rubb'd fresh ; and new impressions of former tragedies are thrown abroad to prejudice us against the means of our own peace and glory : god ( if he pleases ) avert the consequences of our own bitterness and animosity . his last head is about toleration , ( p. . ) though included in his second ; this he labours with his usual pains ; 't is neither ( says he ) good divinity , nor good politicks ; and of this he is as certain as if he found a mare 's nest . the first reason , why it is not good divinity ; is , that false religions in a christian dress , would then be tolerated to the injury of christian religion and mens souls , p. . but he does not consider , how many he will damn by hypocrisie . but in that , perhaps i am out , he may not think that a damnable sin ; and that it is better be an hypocrite , than a dissenter ; though one thinks he is in the right , and the other knows he is in the wrong ; and so one of st. paul's true hereticks , viz. self-condemned . be that as it will , jesus christ is against his divinity , that is lord of the true . for he commands , that the tares grow with the wheat , till harvest ; which he interprets , the end of the world , and great judgment : and forbad . fire to be so much as desired to be call'd from heaven to hurt those that did not own his blessed messengers in their great doctrine of the kingdom he sent them to preach . for toleration'● being bad politicks , let him allow me the liberty he takes with the noble peer i defend , and i will send him upon an errand , that shall determine the controversie presently . let him go to the prince of orange , whose ancestor begun the glory of that country with it , to the princes of the empire . and if this french king will be impartial , ask him , if greater feats were done without , than with a toleration ? so far is it from being dangerous to princes . and if opinions were yet worse than they are , there cannot ( in my judgment ) accrue any danger to the government that tolerates them . for , first , the professors of them have , which they could be thought to plot to get ; but will never plot to lose . and , secondly , if any such people could be , there are or may be laws enough to crush and punish the least appearance of disorder . and under favour , publick assemblies are so far from being dangerous , tha● , truly consider'd , they are the security of the government . what makes men dangerous ? first , they cann't help their dissent ; for faith is not in a man 's own power . next , so soon as he declares it , the law cuts him off from the favour and protection of the magistrate . is it then the man that makes himself dangerous , or is he made dangerous for that dissent ? and if that be it , 't will not be hard to determine , how a dissenter comes to be dangerous . forcing men to religions is as if it were in a man's power to use his conscience as he can his money . in that case i would be on the side of the penal laws . but if a man cann't believe as he will , and less , as other men believe , and 〈◊〉 yet be safe to the government , don't make him ●●safe under it , and i 'll warrant he does no harm : and this i think may be done . i conclude , that toleration is so far from being an enemy to religion and monarchy , that it gives god his due , prevents hypocrisie , and restores society instead of unity : and by an united affection , purse , and hands renders our king great and terrible . i now wait upon his three questions : the first has four in the belly of it , ( p. , . ) first : if christ did not believe soveraign power might maintain the order of society by rewards and panishments . truly i don't know his belief , nor how suitable it might be to him to believe , being the object of ours . but he commanded it , though with a salvo to the religion he came to institute . they were his sheep , 't was his kingdom . the next query is to the duke , if he ha● consider'd , that spiritual punishments are far more rigorous , than temporal ones ? i believe , as much as this gentleman has , whether temporal be less than eternal ? but what of all that ? why , ( next to follow his blow ) he asks ; if jesus christ then has not used greater force to compel men to his religion , than all the powers of the earth have done ? but if it were so , i am of the poor welch-man's mind ; let her alone till 〈◊〉 day comes : and of st. taffy's too ; i had ●ather fall into the hands of god , than man. but : is this proper , just , and adequate ▪ christ punishes spiritual faults with spiritual punishments , ergo , the powers of the earth ought to punish the same faults with temporal and corporal punishments , such as prisons , fines , exiles and death ? but in the next place , i don't think he has out-done the heathen and some christian persecutions , the reason of both consider'd . for he decides the controversie by good works ; they by opinions : he cryes , come ye well-doers ; there are his sheep : go ye workers of iniquity ; there be his goats . but conformity makes an ill-man grateful , and non-conformity a good-man hateful : here good works don't determine the point , as at christ's judgment . howbeit , it is monstrous to argue , that men should be twice punish'd for the same offence ; by the magistrate here , and christ hereafter : this is held unequal among just men in all governments . but 't is no matter , let zeal or interest christen it , and it s well enough for a papist or a phanatick . but if this gentleman were as much under their power , as they are now under his censures ; and should they use him , as the provokes the civil magistrate to treat them , i am of the mind , he would think and call it too anti-christian . to this second main question ( in substance answer'd before ) whether there being an hundred monarchies happy without toleration and liberty of conscience , to one republick that allows it with restriction , whose future fate we are ignorant of ; and whether that may not in time prove its ruin ; it be not an hundred to one , that monarchy shall be more flourishing , safe and lasting without a toleration , than with it ? to this i say ; he makes the ground of it fact ; and that 's false : there is not only no such thing , as an hundred monarchies that have been happy without it : but more have been happy with , than without it , all the eastern monarchies , almost generally give it with success . next , the french. monarohy was happier in henry the iv. than charles the ix . and ours in queen elizabeth , than in king henry the viii . for though her 's was not a reign of liberty , yet of less severity than his. he makes it republican , and knows not what he says : for as his story of monarchies is untrue , so that of republicks , a fiction : there being two monarchies to one republick that gives it . what will be , we cann't tell : but holland is a greater proof for the prudence of a toleration , than any country that can be named on the side of coertion ; and the effects that are , shew what the same measures will do for the time to come if kept to . to the third , and last question , viz. whether it be not cross and pile , whether a man , who may be of any , or all religions , will be of any , or of none at all ? i must tell him , that they that can be of all religions , have little or none . and therefore i always thought those clergy-men that in henry the eighth's time turn'd trimmers , and protestants in edward the sixth's , and papists in queen mary's , and protestants again , with a witness , in queen elizabeth's , had no religion but their benefices . and , as i take it , there were not three hundred , of all qualities , out of ten thousand , that stood out ; to say nothing of their fountains that ran freely through all those rubs and revolutions , i mean oxford and cambridge . if he please to remember what numbers turn'd presbyterians between the years forty and fifty , how many in sixty return'd ; and with what oaths , covenants , engagements , and abjurations they maintain'd their possession , will have cause to say , that it is , sometimes , hardly cross and pile with too many , what religion they are of , and those of no small pretences too . and since he has put it upon that game , i cami't forbear saying , that he has hit upon the aptest allusion he could have made . for cross and pile in some countries stand pope and king , and where they meet that game is up . if he thinks the business yet worth his while , i should be glad to see something truly solid and christian . in the mean time , i take the measure he gives me in his conclusion , to make my choice by reason and vertue , to discourage all sedition and disloyalty ; to tolerate none , that profess to cut other mens throats for conscience sake : beseeching him to let me be even with him in a few questions and a conclusion : they will be short . i. if any man ought to believe without conviction ? if not , then ii. whether conviction be in a man's power to give himself or any for him ? if not , iii. whether this does not of course put an end to coertion ? i proceed to three more upon a christian foot. iv. if christ's law and example are to be the rule of christians ? v. if by his law and example christians should compel conformity by worldly force to their religion ? vi. if liberty to conscientious dissenters be not adviseable from examples christian and political ? the conclusion is first particular then general i would beseech the gentleman , to whom this reply is made , to avoid prejudice , which is here ( i fear ) an ill habit of education . for he says , he was always diametrically opposite to the duke's opinion in the points treated on : as if he had suck'd it with his milk. examination helps judgment ; it is chewing and digesting well ; t'other is swallowing and not concocting : and sometime a man gets a hook in his throat too . let him have a care of tarantula's and the itch of answering , before he considers well ; for that will be as unaccountable , as , he says , his wit is poisonous wit , ( pag. . ) there are two other things that make a man heave and throw , and disorder himself extreamly ; and that is the fly and the worm ; especially in spring-time ; and this has been unusually dry and hot . but for all this , i will end well with him ; for what ever he thinks , i wish him as well as my self ; and that we may both live and die happily with a toleration . and now , reader , 't is fit i say something of this undertaking . the love and honor i have for the truths deliver'd by that noble person , and the easie , plain , short , and yet full , i and strenuous way in which he has recommended them to the world , obliged me to this defence , such as it is . but i cannot but wish , he had met with a man that had deserv'd his own notice , because no body can better defend his arguments : which the oftner i read , the weightier they seem to me ; and his adversary's looser and slighter . 't was a respect i owed his person , and a duty to his essay . and now , reader , as men that die , ask forgivness of all the world , so do i. it is true , it does not yet appear to me , that i have injur'd any person or thing ; i would not do it for the world : and , therefore , am even with it : but i would be modest at least . i have writ my heart in the main ; i hate serving of turns : i love old england as well as any man , and i would fain see her happy . i have long thought this the way , vertve of life and indvegence of conscience , for the king , for the clergy , and for the people . and if our hopes of immortality were but half as strong , as we care they should be thought , we could not use one another with so much jealousie and bitterness : we carry not a true estimate of the world with us , to be so easily and so often disorder'd for it . let us not then palliate our fury , or interest with the sacred name of religion : let us answer for our own faults ; we shall , we must : and therefore let us mend them , that we may have less to answer for , when we come to judgment . god almighty bless the king and kingdom , and send us peace in our days , amen . g. c. finis . books printed for , and sold by luke meredith , at the king's head , at the west end of st. paul's church-yard . a short discourse upon the reasonableness of men's having a religion , or worship of god. by his grace , george duke of buckingham . ' the third edition . the duke of buckingham his grace's letter , to the unknown author of a paper entituled , a short answer to his grace the duke of buckingham's paper , concerning religion , toleration , and liberty of conscience . a dialogue between a pastor , and his parishioner , touching the lord's supper : wherein the most material doubts and scruples about receiving that holy sacrament , are removed , and the way thereto discovered to be both plain and pleasant . very useful for private christians in these scrupulous times . by michael altham . the second edition . to which is added , some short prayers , fitted for that occasion ; and a morning and evening prayer , for the use of private families . two treatises : the first , concerning reproaching and censure ; the second , an answer to mr. serjeant's sure-footing . to which are annexed , three sermons preached upon several occasions ; and very useful for these times . by the late learned and reverend william faulkner , d. d. reverend and beloved, it hath pleased the right honorable the lord major of the city of london, once and again to write unto the ministers thereof respectively, in a very pious and pathetical manner. ... seaman, lazarus, d. . this text is an enriched version of the tcp digital transcription a of text r in the english short title catalog (thomason .f. [ ]). textual changes and metadata enrichments aim at making the text more computationally tractable, easier to read, and suitable for network-based collaborative curation by amateur and professional end users from many walks of life. the text has been tokenized and linguistically annotated with morphadorner. the annotation includes standard spellings that support the display of a text in a standardized format that preserves archaic forms ('loveth', 'seekest'). textual changes aim at restoring the text the author or stationer meant to publish. this text has not been fully proofread approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page image. earlyprint project evanston,il, notre dame, in, st. louis, mo a wing s a thomason .f. [ ] estc r this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (thomason tracts ; : f [ ]) reverend and beloved, it hath pleased the right honorable the lord major of the city of london, once and again to write unto the ministers thereof respectively, in a very pious and pathetical manner. ... seaman, lazarus, d. . sheet ([ ] p.) s.n., [london : ] title from opening words of text. signed at end: la. seaman. place of publication from wing. imprint date from thomason's ms. note. annotation on thomason copy: "october . ". reproduction of the original in the british library. eng westminster assembly ( - ) -- early works to . religious tolerance -- england -- early works to . freedom of religion -- england -- early works to . london (england) -- history -- th century -- early works to . a r (thomason .f. [ ]). civilwar no reverend and beloved, it hath pleased the right honorable the lord major of the city of london, once and again to write unto the ministers t seaman, lazarus c the rate of defects per , words puts this text in the c category of texts with between and defects per , words. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - apex covantage keyed and coded from proquest page images - elspeth healey sampled and proofread - elspeth healey text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion reverend and beloved , it hath pleased the right honorable the lord major of the city of london , once and again to write unto the ministers thereof respectively , in a very pious and pathetical manner . not only to bewail the prophanation of the lords day , the christian sabbath , and to signifie what he hath done by way of precept ; but also to promise what ever the power of his place may do for the strengthening of their hands ; and likewise to desire all and every particular minister in the city , as they tender the honour of christ , and the good of peoples souls , and welfare of the city , yea and earnestly in the name of god to intreat ( as in the said letters appeareth more fully , ) that they the ministers of christ jesus , press the duty of sanctifying that holy day , shew the danger of prophaning of it , and perswade not only to publike worship , but also to retire in private families to such holy duties as the lord requireth . we who are some of those to whom the foresaid letters were directed , have therefore accordingly indeavoured something heretofore in order to the desired end , but of late more seriously in our provincial assembly ( where through gods mercy we have opportunity to confer about matters of religion ) we have weighed those foresaid letters , and laboured mutually to have our hearts affected ( as in the sight of god ) with the contents thereof . and as we bless god unfainedly for stirring up the magistrate to minde the sabbath , and quicken us in our duty about it , ( the rather because in these times many are of gallio's temper careless of such matters . ) so we the ministers there assembled , with the assistance of the elders , have consulted among our selves , wherein , and how we might be most serviceable to our lord jesus christ the great shepherd of the sheep , in decrying sabbath-breaking , and in furthering the true sanctification of that holy rest , both in publike and private , throughout all the congregations and families within the said city , the liberties thereof , and the bounds of the province . and because the delegates there assembling are but few of many ministers within the city , we judged it necessary by writing to stir up our selves and the rest of our brethren and fellow-labourers in the work of the lord , that as one man with one shoulder we may apply our selves to procure in the first place the sanctifying of the sabbath , as the fountaine and foundation of a more perfect reformation in all other things appertaining to religion . to that end we make it our request unto all our dear brethren & to your self in particular , that upon and after as you see occasion , you choose some pertinent scripture to open and apply for instruction of your hearers about the sabbath , that all duties belonging to it may be inforced , and all errors in judgment , and sinful practises whereby it is polluted , may be discovered , confuted and reproved . and because there are divers acts and ordinances of parliament in force for the better sanctification of that day , we desire also that every officer may be stirred up to act conscientiously and vigorously according to the duty of his place , as is in them prescribed . and what , though we be poor and despised , yet we may not forget gods law . we fear a great part of our trouble arises from hence , that we are not sufficiently zealous for that rest . if we can vindicate the lords day , his holy ordinances will soon regain their credit . the calling of the ministers will not die , if conscience of the sabbath do revive . but if that fall , which of us , or what ordinance of god shall be able to stand ? it should be no small incouragement unto us that god hath prepared the magistrates heart to accompany us in our desires and indeavours this way . and that we have so solemn an ingagement as his promise in writing to every one of us particularly , that he will use all the power of his place to presse and carry on this work , untill it come unto perfection . we want not many other , yea stronger and more sacred grounds and reasons , to inforce these duties upon our consciences , yet his incouragements , zeale and forwardness should provoke us , as the like in jehosaphat and nehemia did among the priests and levites . god threatens sabbaths of desolation , the land ( saith he ) shall enjoy her rest , because it rested not in the dayes and yeers which he had set apart ; this in some proportion hath been verified in mos● of those churches which bear the name of reformed . to england we may say , considering the state of other places , be not high-minded , but fear . repent and do thy first works . yea let thy last be better then thy first , lest god remove thy candlestick . we speak not this as if we needed to put words into our brethrens mouths , but to stir up their pure minds and to testifie how sincerely we desire to sympathize with all those who minde the things of god , and of his son jesus christ our lord . which we desire so much the more to love , and look after , as they are hated or neglected by others we forbear to press arguments from the duty of your calling , because of your selfe , we hope you are sufficiently sensible thereof . the good lord prosper all your labour in the lord , to whose blessing we commend you . signed in the name and by the appointment of the provincial assembly by the present moderator la. seaman . christian liberty as it was soberly desired in a letter to certain forreign states upon occasion of their late severity to several of their inhabitants, meerly for their different perswasion and practice in point of faith and worship towards god / made publick on the behalf of the present suffering dissenters within this kingdom. penn, william, - . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing p estc r ocm this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) christian liberty as it was soberly desired in a letter to certain forreign states upon occasion of their late severity to several of their inhabitants, meerly for their different perswasion and practice in point of faith and worship towards god / made publick on the behalf of the present suffering dissenters within this kingdom. penn, william, - . p. s.n.], [london : . attributed to penn by wing. dated at end: london, the th december, . reproduction of original in the union theological seminary library. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng society of friends -- apologetic works. religious tolerance. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - aptara keyed and coded from proquest page images - mona logarbo sampled and proofread - mona logarbo text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion christian liberty as it was soberly desired in a letter to certain forreign states , upon occasion of their late severity to several of their inhahitants , meerly for thei● different perswasion and practice in point of faith and worship towards god. made publick on the behalf of the present suffering diffenters within this kingdom . printed in the year . to the supream council of the states , &c. the king of kings , and lord of lords , who is god of all the families of the earth , incline your hearts to justice , mercy and truth . the noise of your severe treatment of several persons that are inhabitants of your state , reproachfully term'd quakers , hath reached these parts , and fill'd several with compassion and surprize : compassion , to hear of the * miseries of men innocent & upright , against whom you have nothing to object , but the pure exercise of their conscience to god : surprize , that you , a protestant-state , should employ your civil power to deter , punish and grievously afflict men for answering the convictions of their consciences , and acting according to the best of their understandings . methinks you should not be oblivious of your own condition in the loyns of your ancestors , who , you think , with great reason & justice strenuously advocated the cause of liberty of conscience against the popes bulls and the spanish inquisition ; how did they antichristian all force on conscience , or punishment for non-conformity ? their own many and large apologies , and particularly , their demands at the diets of norimberg and spira , are pregnant proofs in the case : and your practice doth not lessen the weight of their reasons ; on the contrary , it aggravates your unkindness , let me say , injustice . protestants ( and such you glory to be thought ) got their name by protesting against imposition ; and will you turn imposers ? they condemned it ; and will you practise it ? they thought it a mark peculiar to the beast ; and can you repute it the care of a christian magistracy ? i mean , that persons must not live under your government , unless they receive your mark in their forehead or right-hand ? which in plainer terms is , to submit their consciences to your edicts , and to ask your leave , what religion they should be of . remember , that faith is the gift of god ; and , that what is not of faith is sin : nothing can be more unreasonable , then to compel men to believe against their belief , or to trouble them for practising what they believe , when it thwarts not the moral law of god. you doubtless take your selves to be christians , and would esteem it no little injury to be otherwise represented ; yet what more unchristian , then to use external force , to sway the consciences of men about the exercise of religious worship ? christ jesus , the lord and author of the christian religion , censur'd his own disciples , that would have had fire from heaven to destroy those that conform'd not to what their blessed master taught : are you surer of your religion ? are you better christians ? or , have you more christian-authority , then they that were the chosen witnesses of jesus ? however remember , they call'd but for fire from heaven ; and can you kindle fire on earth to devour them ? them , i say , that are of your own people , meerly for their religious dissent from you ? doubtless , if that was then thought no fit argument to induce men to conformity by him that was wiser then solomon , it reflects greatly upon your modesty and prudence , that you should find out new wayes , or rather old exploded ones to effect so ill a design . besides , you do not say , you know all you ought to know , or that there is nothing further to be revealed ; have a care therefore , that you persecute not angels , by being harsh to that which you call strange : think not ill , much less speak , and least of all act that which is so against what you do not perfectly understand . i am well perswaded , that those you inflict such severe penalties upon , mean well in what they believe ( to be sure much better then you think they do , or else you are extremely to blame ) and that the reason of their present distance from you , is not to introduce or insinuate dangerous or exotick opinions ; but to live a life of more holiness , purity and self-denial , then before : they do not think that you walk up to your own principles ; and have reason to believe that the power of godliness is much lost among you ; and having long lain under a decay and languishing of soul for want of true spiritual nourishment , they have now betaken themselves to that heavenly gift & grace of god in themselves for divine satisfaction , even that holy anointing that is able to teach them all things necessary for them to know , as the blessed apostle speaks ; and they find the joys of the holy ghost in so doing : and i am perswaded , they are not less peaceable , sober , just and neighbourly then formerly , and altogether as consistent with the prosperity of civil society ; and i am sure , it is both found and confest among us here by some men of quality , learning and virtue . further , be pleased to consider with your selves , that you justifie the ancient persecutions of the christians and first reformers , whose superiors thought as ill of them , as you do of these men ; nay , you show the papists what to do in their dominions to your own brethren . do as you would be done by : if you would have liberty , give it ; you know that god's witness in your hearts dictates this to you as an immutable law. could you give faith , it were more excusable for you to punish such as should resist ; but since that is impossible , the other is unreasonable ; for 't is to afflict men for not being what they can't be , unless they turn hypocrites : that is the highest pitch your coercive power can arrive at ; for never did it convert or preserve one soul to god ; instead thereof , it offers violence upon conscience , and puts a man either upon the denyal of his faith and reason , or being destroyed for acting according to them : but what greater disproportion can there be , then what lyeth between the intellect of man , and prisons , fines and banishments ? they inform no man's judgment , resolve no doubts , convince no understanding : the power of perswasion is not to be found in any such barbarous actions , no more then the doctrine of christianity . this course destroyes the bodies and * estates of men , instead of saving their souls : were they in the wrong , it would become you to use god's weapon , his sword of the spirit , that saveth the creature , and slayeth the evil in him ; this course tends to heart-burnings and destruction ; i am sure it is no gospel argument . i beseech you for the sake of that lord jesus christ , that suffer'd so patiently for his own religion , and so sharply prohibited making other men to suffer for theirs , that you would have a care , now you exercise power over mens consciences . my friends , conscience is god's throne in man , and the power of it , his prerogative : 't is to usurp his authority , and boldly ascend his throne to sit lords over it . were their conversation scandalous , and destructive to the good of your state , you were to be held excusable ; but verely , no man of mercy and conscience , can defend your practice upon poor men so peaceable and inoffensive . gamaliel will rise up in judgment against you , if you persevere in this course . do not you help to fill the catalogue of persecutors , in much love i intreat you ; but as becomes christian men & true protestants , leave men to their particular perswasions of affairs relative of the other world , which have no ill aspect on the affairs of this ; but vice hath an evil consequence as to both : therefore punish vice , and affect truth and righteousness , and bend not your civil power to torment religious dissenters ; but to retrive good life , lamentably lost amidst the great pretences that are made to religion . doubtless , magistracy was both ordained of god , and elected by men , to be a terror to evil-doers , and not to them that do well , though of different judgments . you oppugn the roman church for assuming infallibility to herself , and yet your own practice maketh you guilty of the same presumption , or worse : for , either you do exercise that severity upon an infallible knowledge , or you do not ; if you do , you take that to your selves , your principles deny to any church whatever , which is a contradiction ; if you do not , you punish people for not conforming to what you your selves deny any certainty about : and how do you know but you compel them to that which is false , as well as that which is true ? verely , this dilemma is not easily avoided , as well as that this inhuman practice will stain your profession , infame your government , and bring a blot upon your posterity . remember that they are men as well as your selves , born free , and have equal plea to natural and civil common priviledges with your selves : the different perswasion of their consciences about things relating to another life , can no wayes render them unfit for this ; it neither unmans nor uncivilizes them . they have the same right to their liberty and property as ever , having by no practice of theirs in the least forfeited any of those human advantages , the great charters of nature and scripture have conferr'd upon them : and the opulency of your neighbours , and prosperity of their affairs , prove to you that indulgence is not inconsistent with policy ; howbeit , you have now tryed the sincerity of their procedure by what you have already inflicted , and they sustained ; let the time past suffice , and make them not sacrifices for their conscientious constancy . if they are in the wrong , 't is more then they know : will you persecute men for being what they must be , if they will be true to themselves ? this were great violence ; rather commiserate , then thus violently compel them . i beseech you , seek some cheaper way to accommodate your selves , then by their destruction , who are so very remote from seeking yours . oh! the day will come , wherein one act of tenderness about matters of conscience , shall find a better reward , then all the severity by which men use to propagate their perswasions in the world ; and there is great reason for it , since the one flows from the saviour , the other , from the destroyer of men. in fine , let your moderation be known unto all men , for the lord is at hnad , whose reward it with him ; and he will recompence every man , family , state , kingdom and empire , according to the nature of their works , committed in this mortal body ; at whose bar it shall never be laid to your charge , that out of fear of taking god's office out of his hands , and being unmerciful to tender consciences , you admitted men of differing judgments to dwell quietly among you ; truly , you cannot be too tender in this point . imitate the god of nature and grace , by being propitious to all ; his sun shineth on all , his rain falls on all , he gives life and being to all ; his grace visits all , and in times of ignorance he winketh : and though such you may repute ours , i hope you cannot think you wink at it , who make such broad tokens of your displeasure . oh! how forbearing and merciful is he towards you ? have you so lately escaped the wrath of enemies , and can you already thus sharply treat your friends ? had he enter'd into judgment with you , what had become of you ? let his goodness to you prevail with you , to express clemency to others , that so the great god of the whole earth , even the god of the spirits of all flesh , who respects not the persons of the rich , poor , or powerful in judgment , may show you mercy in the day of his righteous judgments , ame● . london , the th december , . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e * our account sayes , some were cruelly beaten by order ; others banished ; some put in a dungeon , and fed with bread and water only ; several fin'd greater sums of money , it is thought , then they had to pay . * and property , which they repute themselves guardians of , is hereby lost . an effort against bigotry, and for christian catholocism being a discourse on rom. , / delivered at andover in hampshire by henry chandler. chandler, henry. approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing c estc r ocm this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) an effort against bigotry, and for christian catholocism being a discourse on rom. , / delivered at andover in hampshire by henry chandler. chandler, henry. p. printed for john lawrence ..., london : . errata: p. . reproduction of original in the british library. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng bible. -- n.t. -- romans xiv, -- sermons. religious tolerance -- england -- protestant churches. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - aptara keyed and coded from proquest page images - celeste ng sampled and proofread - celeste ng text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion an effort against biggotry , and for christian catholicism . being a discourse on rom. . . delivered at andover in hampshire . by henry chandler . nunquam de dogmatibus christus disseruit , sed saepe , & ubique , imo semper de vivendi sinceritate . mat. . . wo unto you scribes and pharisees , hypocrites ; for ye pay tyth of mint , and anise , and cummin , and have omitted the weightier matters of the law — jam. . . but the wisdom that is from above , is first pure , then peaceable , gentle , and easie to be intreated . london : printed for iohn lawrence , at the angel in the poultry , . to my generous and much respected friend , mr. gabriel goldney of andover . the following discourse was delivered in your hearing with an honest design , and 't is now presented you in compliance with your request : you some time since intimated , that the hearing of it was very grateful to you ; i pray god it may in the review be altogether as profitable . 't is not calculated for the interest of any party of christians , as a party needlesly dividing from , or hurtfully opposing the rest ; but ( if i mistake not ) equally serving the real interest of all . let my tongue cleave to the roof of my mouth , and my right hand forget her cunning , rather than by word or writing i should wilfully promote faction to the damage of substantial vncontroverted christianity . no man on earth more sincerely wisheth than my self , that all names of distinction amongst protestants were for ever buried under a just and righteous accomodation ; no man more heartily laments the schisms that are amongst us , or more unfeignedly longs for a thorough healing of them . i doubt not but that there are multitudes of different denominations that can easily more skilfully prescribe for the healing of our distempers than my self , but other persons receiving more talents than my self , is no discharge to me from a faithful managing and improving what i have receiv'd . nor must a sense of the deficiency of my performances so far dishearten me as to prevent my just endeavours : wherefore i am willing that you should have this discourse to read , after your hearing of it , and to communicate it as you shall judge expedient : and to this i am the more inclined , for that the discourse hath been expresly approv'd by two worthy ministers , whose judgment we both value . one of them is pleased thus to express himself : — as to the discourse it self , i could not but be pleased with it : it does with great piety , solidity and justice , expose that which i take to be the most prevailing and dangerous distemper of the age , viz. a placing our religion in , and laying out our zeal upon little insignificant things ( as words , or phrases , speculative opinions , or meer circumstances and opinions ) in being for or against these ; in which , supposing we be in the right , we are ( we can be ) but very little the better ; but if it shou'd happen we are under a mistake , we must needs be greatly the worse . to place the kingdom of god in such things is the common mischief of our day ; hence we are broken into parties , and by the same spirit are our shameful divisions fomented and kept up ; and 't is the cure of this spirit that alone can effectually heal the breaches there are amongst us . nor is this over magnifying our self-devised religiousness , and confining thereupon the kingdom of god within the pale of our respective parties , the less pernicious and fatal , for being so exceeding common : hence it is that there is so visible a decay of christian charity ; that there is so notorious a disregard of the most important and distinguishing instances of christianity , through the misapplying of zeal to the little impertinencies that neither need nor deserve it — if this discourse fall into the hands of such as need it most , and the divine spirit please to accompany it , i cannot doubt but its success will be such , as will greatly promote and help on a more peaceful and flourishing state of christ's kingdom amongst us ; for which end it shall be followed with the fervent prayers of your affectionate brother , &c. sir , when i read these lines , and considered the worth of the person that wrote them , and when i remember'd that another very valuable minister had said of the discourse , that he wish'd there were ten thousand of such sermons printed , and scattered up and down ; i found my selfless unwilling to venture upon appearing thus in publick , than i was before . i doubt not but that the most diseased will find fault ; no matter for that , let me be blamed by them , so i may but heal them ; but if that be not the issue , i shall have the satisfaction that occompanies an honest design and endeavour . may the infinitely great and good god requite with spiritual and eternal blessings the respect and kindness you have shewn me . may you experience more and more the solid and durable comforts of practical and peaceable christianity ; may you be the temple of the holy ghost , and your family a little church ; may all good things be multiplied to you , and you made better by all ; may i and mine meet you and yours with joy , at the right hand of jesus in that day ; may fiery faction continually decrease , and faith , love and holiness grow exceedingly every where : these , sir , are the sincere and fervent desires of your obliged friend and servant , in the work of the gospel , henry chandler . andover , aug. . . romans xiv . xvii . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 for the kingdom of god is not meat and drink . the decay of holy zeal for practical godliness , and its woful degenerating into an uncharitable factious contending for little notions , and the disputable appendages of religion , is too too visible every where . and of such scandalous aspect , and destructive tendency is it , that it deserves to be lamented with ( if it were possible ) tears of blood. and the cure of this distemper ( raging amongst all sorts ) to be attended unto with the most speedy , skilful , and industrious application . this is my serious thought , and the reason of my pitching upon this text , as the foundation of the present , and some following discourses . which text i purpose , with god's help , to manage with the best of my skill , and with all possible faithfulness and impartiality for the aforesaid end ; not caring whether i do hereby please or displease men , so i may but be approv'd of god , as one that hath taken the proper method to build his kingdom in the world , and particularly in this town . i shall endeavour to acquaint you with the occasion and sense of the words , that i may clear my way for raising the doctrine that i intend more largely to prosecute . the occasion of these words ( as of the whole chapter , which is one continued argument ) was this ; many of the jews being , by the doctrine and miracles of the apostles , convinced that jesus was the promised messiah , believed in him , and became christians ; but as yet not understanding the full design of the christian institution ; mistaking the nature and use of the mosaick dispensation , and possibly misunderstanding the words in the old testament , signifying the long duration of that aeconomy , for perpetuity , as though god meant by them that it should be continued to the end of the world ; they concluded that their believing in christ was no disingagement from judaism , but thought they were as much obliged to observe the law of moses ( even the ceremonial ) as ever . they looked not on the christian institution as what was now to succeed in the room and place of judaism , to be laid aside , but as a supplement to it with which it was to be continued , supposing they should be never the worse christians for their observation of the jewish rituals . nay , they not only stuck themselves to the ceremonial law , but also took upon them to oblige the gentile converts to the same thing , acts . . but there rose up certain of the sect of the pharisees which believed , saying , that it was needful to circumcise them , and to command them to keep the law of moses . the gentiles having never been under moses law as such , nor apprehending any obligation upon them now to come under it , took no notice of what the jews said in vindication of their superstition , but stuck to their liberty , and were as fond of it , as the other were of their burdensome yoke . this occasion'd uncharitable contentions amongst the two parties , rais'd disputes and quarrellings , put 'em upon despising and judging of one another , as is intimated by the prohibition , ver . . let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not ; and let not him which eateth not , judge him that eateth . the gentile christians ate all meats , even those forbidden by the ceremonial law , and looked upon the jew as a scrupulous humersome fool , for making a difference . the jewish christian ( or christianized jew ) regarding the injunctions and prohibitions of the ceremonial law , ate but such meats as that allow'd ; religiously refusing the rest , judging the gentile christian as an ungodly sinner , for his violation of moses law , and shunn'd his communion , as a prophane and unholy person , as is intimated , ver . . to compose these differences , and persuade these two differing parties of christians to friendly conversation and christian communion , the apostle spends this whole chapter , out of which i have taken my text , and the seven first verses of the following chapter . he maketh use of many arguments to persuade these contenders to an accommodation ; that which my text affords is the comparative trivialness of the things that were the matter of debate ; they were such as that mens opinions and practices about them contributed next to nothing to the promoting of god's kingdom in the world. persons of different , yea , contrary judgment and practice , with respect to them , may be both good and acceptable subjects of the king of heaven ; both may be under the power of grace here , and dwell in glory together hereafter . and , on the other hand , persons of both persuasions may be destitute of grace , and miss of glory , how strict soever they may be in their practice , with respect to the matters in dispute betwixt them . for the kingdom , &c. q. d. these things commend us not to god , for neither if we eat are we the better , neither if we eat not are we the worse , cor. . . it is not a persuasion one way or other , about these lesser matters , that bespeaks persons govern'd by the spirit of christ , or intitled unto , or fit for heaven . by meat and drink are synecdochically comprehended all other things of like nature that were then contested . and when 't is said , these are not the kingdom of god , the expression is metonymical , signifying that they contribute next to nothing , if any thing at all , either to the building or destroying of the kingdom of god amongst men. and therefore 't was sinful folly in either party to be so hot and eager in their disputes about them , and so disaffected to each other , upon account of a different opinion and practice , with respect to them ; this is the sense . the text hath two parts ; a negative ; a positive . . a negative . the kingdom of god is not meat and drink . the design of which is to prevent our making a mistake about the things that render us , through christ , acceptable to god. the former stops up a by-path to prevent our straying in the way of sin and ruine , the latter directs us in the true way to present and future happiness . i begin with the negative part , the kingdom of god is not meat and drink , which affords us this useful and seasonable doctrine , sc . a zeal for the lesser matters of religion conduceth nothing to the promoting of the kingdom of god in our selves or others . in handling of this point i shall observe this method , sc . . i shall endeavour to prevent your making of mistakes , as to the meaning of it . . i shall give you the true sense and meaning of it , and prove it ( both together . ) . make application . . i shall endeavour to prevent , &c. but first i will lay down this preliminary proposition , sc . there are greater , and there are lesser matters in religion . all that is in the christian institution taught and enjoyn'd , is not equally necessary to be known and practised by us , in order to our acceptable serving of the redeemer here , or our comfortable appearing before him in another world. there are some things upon account of which men are more valuable in god's estimation , than they are upon the account of others ; and there are things that do more vastly advantage our souls , improve our natures , and promote our felicity , than others . in a word , there are doctrines and precepts that must be known and observ'd , or we cannot be happy , and there are such , which tho' we be ignorant of them ( and consequently do not designedly address our selves to the observation of them ) we may yet be happy . the precepts that may justly be reckoned and called the greater and weightier , are such as enjoyn , internal , moral rectitude , which is our necessary subjective capacity for converse with the glorious god. serious application to the lord jesus as the only saviour . such as respect the essence and substance of christian religion , the life and power of godliness , as direct more immediately to holy practice , as are clearly and plainly delivered , and as are of constant and perpetual obligation and use . the lesser precepts are such as direct about the ornamental accidents of external worship . such whereof the knowledge is not absolutely necessary to salvation . such as direct unto duties of meer positive institution , and as are but darkly and obscurely delivered , and not at all times , or in all cases obliging . that these two sorts of precepts may be thus distinguished into greater and lesser , that is more and less necessary , is evident , as by the express testimony of holy scripture , so from this consideration following , sc . were it otherwise , one of the two following absurdities must be granted . . either that the observation of nothing in the christian religion was necessary to salvation : or , . that so much was necessary that no man could be saved . for there 's not a man upon the earth , that perfectly knows all the several precepts that are couched and intimated in the pregnant stile of holy scripture , together with them that lye upon the surface of the text , obvious to the most careless eye ; and no man can designedly address him to observe those precepts that he knows not . but we know but in part , cor. . . the wisest man's knowledge is here necessarily imperfect , and therefore his obedience cannot be otherwise ; wherefore it irrefragably follows , that all things enjoyn'd in holy scripture , are not equally necessary ; wherefore the distinction abovesaid is just and needful . now when i say , that a zeal for these lesser matters conduceth nothing to the promoting of the kingdom of god in our selves , or others , neither of these things immediately following is intended . . that these lesser things are utterly useless : or , . that any man hath a license to be ignorant of them , that hath capacity and opportunity to study them . . that any man may , without sin , act contrary to his persuasion , with respect to them : or , . that a man may not , in any case , give to another his sense and opinion about them : or , . that a man may profess , assent to what he knows to be falsly affirmed , or approve as good what he knows to be badly enjoyn'd by men with respect to them , that he might avoid persecution . neither of these five things is intended ; for all the scripture being given by divine inspiration , every part of it is profitable , either for doctrine , or reproof , or correction , or instruction in righteousness , tim. . . and every man ought to acquaint himself with the whole book of god , for his own and others good , as he hath capacity and opportunity , he being the most perfect christian , who is most perfectly acquainted with , and conformed to that blessed rule of holy perfection . nor can any man act contrary to the dictates of a well informed conscience , even in the lesser matters of religion , without sin and danger ; for our lord saith , mat. . . whosoever shall break one of the least commandments , and shall teach men so , he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven . moreover , a christian may safely give his opinion about these lesser matters , when he is asked by a person that desires to know for his own direction , and not for contentious cavilling . and undoubtedly , he that professeth assent to a known falshood , and professeth approbation of that which he knows to be evil , with respect unto these matters , to avoid persecution , is seeking to save his life by those methods that tend to eternal death , matth. . . having thus endeavoured to prevent your mistaking the sense of the doctrine , i come now to tell you positively what i do intend by it . and there are these things meant by it ; . that mens employing their gifts and parts , and spending their time chiefly in the defence of their notions and apprehensions about these matters , renders them never the more acceptable unto god. nor , . do they hereby at all better their own spirits : nor , . are the souls of others hereby served : nor , . is god's kingdom hereby enlarged , or his honour and glory promoted . of these in their order . . mens employing , &c. god accepteth or refuseth no man upon account of such little things as are ( in a comparative sense at least ) the disputable circumstances of religion . he accepteth holy souls of different apprehensions about them . rom. . . for he that in these things serveth christ , is acceptable to god — i. e. which way soever he inclines with respect to the matters in debate : god rejecteth an hypocritical , unholy , unregenerate professor , of what party , opinion , or denomination soever he be . if he be orthodox as to these little things , it matters not ; for circumcision is nothing , and vncircumcision is nothing , but the keeping of the commandments of god , cor. . . wherefore mens over-fondness of these smaller matters , their eager disputes about them , their consuming their time in the study and defence of them , with the neglect of matters of greater necessity and usefulness , cannot ( by sober persons ) be thought what will recommend them to the wise and holy god , who as he made men capable of greater and better studies , expects that they employ themselves about them . for the fuller proof of this particular , let it be considered , that god taketh no delight in fools or hypocrites . . not in fools . he hath no pleasure in fools , eccl. . . but men that are zealous for the smaller matters , whilst they neglect things of greater importance , are fools . ye fools , said our saviour to the pharisees , whose character ( by him given ) was , that they tythed mint , annise and cummin , and neglected the weightier matters of the law. men of this kidney , ( especially if they be successful in their little factious attempts ) are ready to account themselves wise , and those of their party are too prone ( too prodigally ) to applaud them as such . but they are fools . he 's a fool that , being in a leaky ship , minds the painting of his particular cabbin , more than the stopping of the leak that endangers the whole ship. and what is he better that spends his time in the pursuit of those things , that serves only for the recommending his particular notions , and neglects to promote that practical godliness in the world , the general decay of which threatens the whole christian interest ? he 's a fool that being sick of the plague , slights the advice of an able faithful physician , because he speaks not the dialect or idiom of his particular county , or had not his license granted him by such a particular college of physicians . and he 's a far worse fool , that being a sinful creature refuseth the help of charitable skilful christians or ministers , because they are not in all things of his mind in lesser matters of religion , and that confines his addresses for help to persons ( it may be far less skilful ) of his own opinion and party . how well pleased soever such persons may be with their folly , 't is utterly unreasonable and impious to expect that god will shew himself altogether such an one as themselves . . god taketh no delight in hypocrites . this is manifest from the terrible denunciation of wrath against the jewish people , upon the account of hypocrites amongst them , isa . . . therefore the lord shall have no joy in their young men , neither shall have mercy on their fatherless and widows : for every one is an hypocrite — and from our saviour's oft repeated woe thundred out against such , matth. . but such as are chiefly concern'd for the lesser matters of religion are hypocrites , as appears by christ's branding the pharisees ( whose grand fault this was ) so oft with this name , woe unto you scribes and pharisees , hypocrites , woe unto you scribes and pharisees , hypocrites , no less than seven times in that chapter . and is not he an hypocrite that plays with religion ? and doth not he play with religion , that spends his fervour and vigour about the appendages and circumstantials of it , whilst the great and weighty matters are neglected ? ( . ) men do not hereby better their own spirits . i say not that men do not hereby please themselves by gratifying their wanton fancies , and magnifying their idolized friends . i question not but such foolish zealots are as well pleased with these their childish impertinencies , as their children are with their jointed babies and hobby-horses . but their laughter is mad , and their mirth what doth it ? certain it is , that their souls are not improved by the excessive study and pursuit of those things , there is no aptitude to promote such a thing , i mean when sought and pursu'd with the neglect of the life of religion . what will a man's orthodoxness , with respect unto the doctrine of the externals , the modes and circumstances of worship , contribute to the healing of his pride , passion , or worldliness , or any other distemper of his mind , if he be continually diverted from a close application of the specificks that the wise and good physician of souls hath prepared for the cure of such and such distempers ? if a man that hath a tertian ague , should continually spend his time in studying in what vehicle such a medicine for his distemper should be taken in , and when he hath fixed his determination , should spend the rest of his time in endeavouring to bring over his neighbours that are otherwise minded to his opinion , would this cure his distemper ( think you ) though he never applied the proper medicine that he hath by him ? to apply it . may not a man be right as to the particular ( less principal ) thing he contends for , and yet as proud , contentious , turbulent , selfiish , uncharitable , and unrighteous as ever ? if a man be in heart no true christian , will his sticking to , and contending for such things make him one ? if he be a weak languishing christian , will this revive the power of religion in his soul ? yea rather , will it not put out the few sparks that are left ? ( . ) men do not hereby serve the souls of others , whom by these methods they would proselyte to their particular opinions . there are amongst all parties of christians in this nation , some that act in this matter with that unwearied industry , and rejoice in their success with such an air of complacence , as if they were in this matter as narrow of their charity as the romanists , and counted none good christians but those of their own party ; they act as if there was nothing required of men in order to salvation , but subscribing their canons , subjecting themselves to their particular modes of worship , and walking with them in their way . but as such an imagination is altogether groundless , and very absurd , so those are most wretchedly imposed upon , that suffer themselves to be captivated by it . and i will confidently assert , that there is nothing in the purest , most orthodox , and apostolical party of protestants which the other parties have not , to make amends for such a deception . if any man should be told by a leader of any party of protestants , that if he will be a good christian , please god , and go to heaven when he dies , he must be one of them ; he must subscribe their canons , follow their directory , take their church-covenant , he must pray by a book , he must not pray by a book , he must go to the parish church , he must go to meeting , to this meeting , to that meeting ; i say , whosoever talk at this rate , do miserably deceive those that they perswade : nor have they any thing in their communion , which other societies have not , to make their deluded proselites amends . nay , so far is this industrious proselyting of men to a particular opinion from being a piece of service to souls , that 't is a manifest injury to them , as it fills the christian world with woful schisms , diverts from the more important duties of christian religion , as it stumbles the ignorant , and hardens the prophane in their contempt of all religion . ( . ) god's kingdom is not enlarged , nor his honour and glory promoted by such a course . men may thus people their respective assemblies , and encrease the number of votaries to their particular faction or party , but not one good subject is or can be hereby added to the king of saints . men may hereby dishonestly drein the societies of christians differing from them in their opinion about these lesser matters , and weaken their hands by enticing their useful friends from them , but , not a soul can they by this method bring them from the power of satan into the kingdom of god , it hath not the least aptitude or fitness to produce so noble an effect . for the persons such sticklers would by this method gain over to their party , are either good or bad , now which soever be affirmed the matter comes all to one . if he be a bad man , destitute of the saving grace of god , he is never the less so for espousing the opinions , and conforming himself to the customs and usages of this or that party . if he keep his vicious habits , and remain an impenitent unbeliever , he is a bad man still , with which party soever of christians he sides . if he falls in with the conformists , he is a wicked man notwithstanding ; if he should thence be gotten over to the presbyterians , he is a wicked man still ; if he should remove his tabernacle and pitch amongst the independents , he is a wicked man nevertheless : and let him change his associates as often as he will , though he should happen at last to light upon the truth , as to matters in controversy , though he should join with the most orthodox and strict party , though he should really and in truth be of the same mind with them , as to their distinguishing opinions and modes of worship , though he should have and manifest a zeal for them , yet he is a wicked man nevertheless , and no more the hearty and loyal subject of the redeemer than he was before ; for circumcision is nothing , and vncircumcision is nothing , but the keeping the commandments of god , cor. . . 't is not conformity or non-conformity , 't is not the espousing the interest of dioceasan episcopacy , presbyterianism , independency or anabaptistry , that will make a good man of a bad . this will not contribute any thing to the changing a slave of satan into a freeman of christ ; wherefore 't is manifest that factious zealots are not at all serviceable to the interest of god , by gaining over bad men to their party . but it may be some will say , if the person gain'd be a good man , the case ( sure ) is alter'd ; if he be brought from a less pure to a more pure way of worship , this ( doubtless ) promotes the kingdom of god. i answer ; first remember that my discourse is confin'd to the matters controverted by protestants , who severally and jointly hold to and practise the more necessary and important matters of faith and worship . now i say , it must be granted , that all deviations from the rule of the word in the worship of god , are sins , and every sin is more or less obstructive of the kingdom of god : it must also be acknowledged , that convincing men of their mistakes , and reclaiming them from their irregularities in the worship of god , is both charitable and pious . it is a friendly office performed for the soul of our neighbour , and an act of service to the king of heaven . all this is readily granted . yet notwithstanding , it may be safely affirm'd that the kingdom of god is not served by persons spending their zeal about lesser matters . for when persons lay a greater stress upon them than their nature requires , when they talk of them as if they were the only , or chief and principal things in religion to be minded , despising , or judging and separating from those that differ from them in their opinions and practices , with respect to them : i say , when it is thus ( and this is the case i have all along intended ) though these men should be in the right , yet if they endeavour to imprint their image upon the persons they wou'd instruct , and if they are successful as to the whole of their design , 't is certain that they do more hurt than good . for , though it be yielded that they are serviceable to those they proselyte , as they correct their mistakes , and guide them into the way of truth , yet in as much as at the same time they cherish and nourish in them factious , dividing , uncharitable , turbulent inclinations , 't is manifest , that instead of making them better subjects to the king of heaven , they make them much worse than they were . such mens new acquired light having too much brimstone in it , serves but to fire them , and all about them . what though they are in some little thing more orthodox and regular than they were before , if withal they grow conceited and proud , pragmatical and censorious , schismatical and turbulent ; if with the increase of their light there be a decrease of their love , humility and peaceableness , they are no more better'd than men are happily relieved against the darkness of the night , by the light that comes from their fired houses . such a zealous promoting of opinion may spoil christ's good subjects , but it cannot mend them . moreover , the honour and glory of god is not promoted by such a course . god is then glorify'd by us , when in our lives we shew by some significant actions , that our souls are impress'd with the likeness of the divine perfections ; as wisdom , holiness , justice , goodness , &c. i say , when by wise , holy , just and good actions , we shew to the world that our souls are stamped with the likeness of the divine wisdome , holiness , justice and goodness , then we may be said to glorifie god in the world — but is a busie , uncharitable , contending for , disputable matters of opinion , to the prejudice of practical godliness ; what will argue our souls to be thus impress'd ? or , will any sober person say , that god is hereby glorified ? is it consistent with an understanding belief of the wisdom of god , to imagine that he made our noble souls to be only , or principally busied about such little things as many will christen with the name of religion ? or , can a man that heartily believes god is good , persuade himself to think , that he should oblige us to spend our time and strength in recommending and supporting those things that have nothing in their nature to entertain our minds to satisfaction , minds that are capable of conversing with the glorious god , his high perfections , and excellent works ? they know neither god , nor their own souls , that can think so . application , by way of instruction , reprehension , exhortation . . instruction . this truth leads us into several others , viz. . there should be an harmony in affection amongst those between whom there is a difference in opinion . . uniformity in worship is not necessary to the flourishing of christianity . . a further union amongst protestants is truly desirable . . 't is no sin for a christian in some cases to conceal his opinion . of these in order . . there should be an harmony , &c. or thus , christians of different sentiments and practices , with respect unto the lesser matters of religion , should unfeignedly and affectionately love one the other ; their little differings should not occasion the abating of their mutual love. god loves them all , and therefore they should love one another . thus the apostle himself improves this doctrine , rom. . . now the god of patience , and consolation , grant you to be like minded , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 this expression is sometimes used to signifie agreement in opinion and judgment ; but here ( i take it ) 't is put to signifie union and affection ; as the same expression is used , phil. . . fulfil ye my joy , that ye be like minded , having the same love . — and the whole context seems to favour this interpretation , for the design of the apostle throughout the fourteenth chapter , seems plainly to be the begetting a good understanding amongst the contending christians of his time , to perswade them to bear with , be friendly , and kind , and loving one to another : and therefore 't is very allowable to suppose , that in the close of his discourse upon this subject , he doth by this expression intend the same thing , especially seeing 't is manifest that the words are to be so understood in that , phil. . . and that the very last words the apostle spends upon this argument are these , sc . wherefore receive ye one another as christ also received us to the glory of god , ver . . and sirs , what hinders that christians of different opinions and perswasions about lesser matters , love not one another better ? seeing the things they differ about are not things of great weight , or flat necessity , seeing the interest of god suffers not by the variety of mens opinions about them , seeing god doth not value or slight men upon account of them , seeing both parties may be acceptable to god , why should they not love one another ? why should they not in honour prefer one another ? why should they not have good thoughts one of another ? true it is , men cannot think or believe as they list , or as their neighbours and friends would have them , but one would think they should love according to their saviour's command and example : he loves all the pious and good , whether conformists or non-conformists , church-men or dissenters , presbyterian or independent , or whatever fool 's coat of distinction their uncharitable envious neighbours put upon them . he by his apostle commends a catholick love , or a love to all the saints , ephes . . . wherefore 't is a hard case if christians of different opinions cannot love one another . objection but perhaps some will say , how can i love those that i see disorderly and erroneous ? answer . a wise objection indeed ! canst thou love none but those that are in all things orthodox and orderly ? then thou must love thy father , or mother , or wife , or children , or minister , yea , or thine own self no more , for all on this side heaven have their mistakes , and are guilty of their irregularities . we know but in part , saith the apostle , cor. . . and in many things we offend all , james . . but hark christian what are those errors and irregularities that hinder thy loving of thy fellow christian ? doth he deny the catholick church , that one body ? doth he deny the holy ghost , that one spirit ? doth he disown the belief of the heavenly glory , that one hope of our calling ? or doth he deny the one lord jesus , the one faith ; baptism , or god and father of all , who is above all , and through all , and in us all ? perhaps thou wilt say , no , no , he is not gone so far as that comes to , he owns all these . does he ? then ( to speak a soft word ) thou art a foolish wretch , if thou canst not love him because he thinks and speaks somewhat differingly from thee , about the circumstantials of religion — but thou say'st he is disorderly — what meanest thou ? is he prophane , intemperate , unjust , or unmerciful ? it may be thou wilt say , no , i can lay none of this to his charge ; as to the main he seems to live a sober , righteous , and a godly life , but he is not of my mind and way in the worship of god. he was not admitted to the lord's supper as i was , he says not his prayers as i do mine , he comes not to the same place of worship that i do — and is this the reason why thou canst not love him ? let me tell thee freely , whoever thou art , thou hast great reason to question whether thou thy self lovest god or no , and for thy reason why thou canst not so heartily love thy fellow christian ; thou wouldst have given as good an one if thou hadst said the reason was because he hath a mole in his face , a spot upon his coat , or another fashion'd ribbon in his hat than thou hast ; for these are as solid reasons why thou shouldst not heartily love such as i have described , as the others are . . hence learn , uniformity in worship is not necessary to the flourishing of christianity in the world. the kingdom of god may be in a prosperous and flourishing condition , though all do not worship in the same manner , or with the same ceremonies exactly . because the kingdom of god consisteth not in such little things . that there be unity among christians is necessary , they must be united in the same object of worship the ever-blessed and glorious trinity , in the same mediator the lord jesus christ ; in the same guide and director in worship the holy ghost , in the same rule of worship ( as to the substance of worship at least ) the holy scriptures ; in the same end of worship , the glory of god in their eternal salvation . but that there should be amongst the several assemblies of worshippers an exact uniformity as to all the modes and circumstances of worship , this is ( i think not possible , but i am sure ) not necessary to the flourishing of christianity , for the kingdom of god is not circumstance or ceremony . but alas ! how do persons of all denominations ( some at least ) talk as if they thought the quite contrary ; the high flyers of all denominations talk and act as if they thought the kingdom of god was nothing else but circumstance and ceremony . ask the rigid church-man's opinion , and he 'll tell you 't will never be good days till all come to worship god almighty with the laudable ceremonies of the church of england ; he 'll tell you , that there are no true ministers but those that have episcopal ordination , no true sacraments but what are administred by such ministers , no true churches where there are not true sacraments , no salvation out of the true church : that is , in a word , that there are no true churches or christians that are in a state of salvation , but those of his way ; and thus we poor dissenters all are , what in him lieth , left without the pale of the church , to be an easie prey to the next herd of devils that shall chance to light upon us . these men make the kingdom of god to be ceremony and circumstance with a witness , in as much as they will not vouchsafe to reckon those amongst christians , that want but the supposed compliment , or finishing of the imposition of the hands of a diocesan bishop on their ministers at their ordination , though all other requisites be found amongst them . well , are there none of the dissenters as foolish in their way ? yes verily , there are amongst them some as ignorant and uncharitable as their canonical neighbours : this wild fancy walks sometimes in a cloak as well as in a gown and cassock ; some there are that think it can never be as it should be with the kingdom of god , till all ceremonies but their own ( for 't is impossible to worship god with external worship , without some ceremony or other ) be laid aside , they have such extravagant conceits about the ceremonies used by the church of england , that they be ready to conclude that the salvation of such as use them , is almost as impossible , as 't is for a camel to go through the eye of a needle . when they think fit to speak of a church-man , in whom perhaps there 's some good thing that they cannot but see , they speak of it with a but. but he is a church-man , but he is for the liturgy ; as if his not being a dissenter , or not worshipping god just in such a way and manner as they , did marr all the good that was in him , and make it to be nothing — the truth is , there is such a dictating , domineering spirit in men of all sorts , that every conceited man would be a teacher and ruler to all the rest . the conceited episcopal man would have all the nation follow his fashion , and bow down to his idol ( i mean , his excessively valued ceremonies ) ; the proud presbyterian would have all observe his directory ; and the proud independent would have all take his covenant , and conform to his customs and usages ; and if these cannot have their wills ( and god forbid they should ) they utter their complaints , and vent their predictions , as if for want hereof all the storms were raised that have so long threatned the sinking of the church . whereas the wise , and humble , and peaceable among all sorts consider , that seeing the kingdom of god consisteth not in ceremony or circumstance of external worship ; a variety and diversity herein may well be allow'd unto persons of different sentiments and apprehensions , without any damage done to the glory of the divine government . and that this was the apostle's mind is manifest from this , that when he considers the difference between the jew and gentile , about the observation of holidays , he doth not command one to conform his opinion and practice to the others , but adviseth each to act according to his own perswasion therein , at the same time maintaining a charitable frame of spirit towards his differing neighbour , rom. . . if he had thought that an exact uniformity in the externals of worship had been necessary , he would not have given such advice as he there gives , no , he would have dogmatically determined which was in the right , and authoritatively commanded the other to conform to him . third inference . a farther union amongst protestants is very desirable , seeing these smaller matters that i have been discoursing of , are of such a nature , that a man may be under the saving influence of the spirit of holiness , and a good subject to the king of heaven , which way so ever he acts with respect to them . 't is ten thousand pities that a difference in opinion and practice herein should cause such distances and withdrawings one from another , as it doth . i acknowledge there is great cause of thanksgiving to god , that there is such an union in doctrinals amongst us as there is , and i account the governments calling protestant dissenting ministers to subscribe the articles of the church of england a very good providence , as their orthodoxy , in matters of faith , is thereby manifested to all the world. but that this is all the union that is to be wished , no person of understanding and honesty will dare to affirm . it were to be wished that what is sinfully imposed on one side was dropped , and what is needlesly scrupled on the other side was for peace sake complied with , that the names of church-men and dissenters , presbyterian and independent might be happily lost in an honest and beneficial union , that our name may be one , our hearts as one , and our way one , to the painful envy and grief of hell and rome . i do unfeignedly lament the spirit of faction and partyism that i see amongst dissenters , as well as church-men . biggotry is not the sin of any particular party . ah what a dismal thing is it , that when our holy bible tells us plainly , that the kingdom of god is not promoted by these little things , we should stand aloof from one another upon account of them , as if we were afraid of being infected with mortal disease ! seeing a man's acceptance with god depends not upon his using this way of worship or that , why should we totally separate from those who worship with some little irregularities , as if they were worshippers of a false god ? or why should they totally deny their presence at our assemblies , because of the absence of those ceremonies that they themselves acknowledge to be indifferent ? let us pray , that where persons are otherwise minded about the worship of god than the word of god directs , god would reveal it to them , as it is expressed phil. . . that the domineering imposing humour on one hand , and the needless hurtful scrupulosity on the other being laid aside , we may all walk together in love , becoming the gospel of love and peace . you that desire the peace of jerusalem pray for this , pray heartily , pray without ceasing ; you shall prosper that thus love the church of god , psalm . . fourth inference . 't is no sin for a christian in some cases to conceal his opinion as to these lesser matters . yea , 't is a plain duty in some cases . rom. . . hast thou faith , have it to thy self before god. i. e. hast thou more knowledge than he , to believe those things to be lawful , which he judgeth to be sin , keep thy knowledge and belief to thy self , to justify thy judgment to god , but use it not to the hurt of others . [ mr. baxter . ] this text seems primarily to direct the strong christian who hath more knowledge of his christian liberty than his brother , and can without scruple do those things which the weaker christian sticks at ; and the duty enjoined seems to be this , that such an one should not needlesly divulge his opinion , nor use his liberty to the scandalizing of his brother . it is also of use to direct the weak scrupulous christian , who though he hath a strong perswasion , that such or such a thing would be sin to him , yet should not needlesly divulge his scruples , when he is not call'd to do what he scrupleth ; and when the mentioning of his scruples might disturb his brothers quiet ; who can do that thing without wronging his conscience or [ it may be ] offending of god , the thing being indiffent , and so lawful to be done or not done , according as a man is perswaded in his conscience . and thus the apostle seems to mean by that in the th verse , let every man be fully perswaded in his own mind . q. d. with respect to these disputed matters , let every man act according to the light he hath received , but not be forward to spread his opinion for the disturbing and troubling of others , seeing the glory of god is not promoted by our contending about these lesser matters ; seeing the kingdom of christ is not furthered , nor the souls of men advantaged by gaining men to our opinions about them . let it suffice us that we have the liberty of our own thoughts and actions , and not insist upon them when we have far greater and more useful things to talk of , and press upon one another wherein we are all agreed . wherefore when a man [ that hath no manifest call to declare his judgment about these smaller matters ] shall purposely for peace sake refuse the distinguishing name of [ suppose ] presbyterian or independent , and shall rather chuse to be called a christian , a protestant , or an united brother , he is not i think to be looked upon and condemned as an hypocrite , walking laodicean , or linsy-woolsy christian . nor will any person so judge such , but those whose opinion is ( as one said ) more than their religion , and who delight in the supposed honour [ but real shame ] of being the heads of schismatical parties . second use of reprehension , and here these several sorts following are to be reprov'd , sc . . tyrannical church imposers . . factious preachers . . schismatical dividers . . proud contemners . . vncharitable judgers . . hypocritical triflers . . tyrannical church imposers . i mean here all such pretended or real church-officers , as make conformity to their opinions and practices about these lesser matters , the indispensible condition of communion with them . i call such tyrannical imposers , because they act herein arbitrarily without the divine warrant , and hereby lord it over god's heritage . this spirit is too visible in the world at this day ; some deny publick baptism to children , if their parents will not consent to have them signed with the sign of the cross , or if they themselves will engage for their children , and refuse to find sureties ( or godfathers and godmothers ) for them ; though neither of these be commanded in the word , and both be look'd on as unlawful and sinful by those who offer their children to be baptised . they refuse to give the sacrament of the lord's supper to persons ( in the judgment of strictest charity , penitent believers competently instructed ) except they will receive it kneeling ; though christ or his apostles never so administred it , and though the persons that would join with them think it would be sin in them so to receive it . others will not admit persons to their communion , unless they will submit to be examined by officers that are neither preachers of the word , nor dispensers of the sacraments ; though . the divine right of that office be controverted by the learned , and the persons refusing to be so examined verily think it is not an ordinance of christ . others will not admit persons to their communion , except they will ( besides their declaring their knowledge of the doctrine of christian religion , and professing their belief of it , and purposes of living in all things suitable to it ) be obliged to give an account of their experiences to the society , or the heads of them , that they may judge not only of their knowledge , but also of the sincerity and truth of their profession , at least of the credibility of the appearances of their sincerity and truth . others will have no communion at the lord's table with those that have been baptized in their infancy , unless they will renounce their baptism , by being baptized again . all these are to be blamed . now i do not at this time blame-one party or other , for acting themselves according as they are respectively perswaded , nor for admitting others to do the like that are of the same mind with them , and are volunteers in what they do . but that which is justly reprovable , and which my text and doctrine directs me to reprove , is persons looking upon those that are otherwise minded , and dealing with them , as if they were meer impenitent pagans , denying to them the means of salvation ; as if these things were of the substance of religion , and a man could not be a good christian , unless he was as to these things altogether of their mind . this is but too like the hateful cruelty of the athenian robber , the condition of lodging with whom was , to be made just the length of his bed , by disjointing , stretching if too short , or by dismembring , chopping off if two long . away with this church tyranny , with this intrenching upon christ's prerogative , and let 's be content with such conditions of church fellowship , as he in wisdom and goodness hath appointed . certainly , what i am speaking against , is a wicked lording it over the consciences of christ's disciples where-ever 't is , whither in a parish church or separate meeting , and 't is directly contrary to that precept , rom. . . him that is weak in the faith receive ye , but not to doubtful disputations . . a second sort to be reproved are , factious preachers . such i mean whose business it is to commend themselves and party , measuring themselves by themselves , and comparing themselves amongst themselves , as the apostle speaks , cor. . . such ministers ( by what names or titles soever dignified or distinguished ) as under pretence of orthodoxy , order , or decency employ their wit , and spend their time and vigor in justifying , commending , and magnifying the expressions and phrases , habits , gestures , and modes used by themselves and party ; villifying and nullifying the ways and manners of those that differ from them . o the sin and folly of such a course ! it cannot possibly be the effect of a better cause than base selfishness , envy , or ignorance . how absurd and foolish doth this appear , when we consider the relation that ministers stand in to the people . they are ambassadors from god unto men in christ's stead , to perswade them to be reconciled to god , cor. . . their business is by all proper arguments to perswade men to take off their hearts from this world ( whose friendship is enmity against god , james . . ) and set them upon god as their chief good and only happiness ; in order hereunto they should with the best of their skill display before men the attractive amiable excellencies of god , as discover'd by the works of creation , common providence and redemption , and disgrace the world as a competitor and rival with god , by shewing its unsuitableness , uncertaintainty , and insufficiency , &c. now what madness is it , instead hereof , to be continually or frequently harping upon the decency , comliness , or usefulness of such and such ceremonies , and the excellency of such churches as make use of them ? — how absurd is it to be continually or frequently industriously crying of them down , and applauding such churches as use them not , to be defending , justifying and pressing such or such particular modes of expressing the doctrines of christan religion ; and thereby , at least tacitly , condemning and disgracing others , that , it may be , are altogether as orthodox , neither being in terms the expressions of holy scripture ? 't is indeed a deplorable case , that the ambassadors of the king of heaven should so much mistake the design of their negotiation . if the king of england should send an ambassador to treat with his enemies ( his revolted subjects ) and proffer them their lives in case they will return to their allegiance , confess with shame and remorse their rebellion , would it not be abominable trifling in the ambassador , if he should spend his time chiefly in instructing them what cloaths they should wear , and what gestures they should keep when they come into the king's presence ? the application is easie . — . schismatical dividers are to be reprov'd . such in christian societies , i mean , who , if they cannot have their wills as to little trifles , stick not at renting and tearing all to pieces , by faulting the ministers methods , and prejudicing the church against him . there are a sort of men in the world , who , tho' they have hardly sense enough to apprehend the plainest preaching , are yet so conceited and proud , as to think themselves qualified to be , at least , sides-men with their minister in all his acts of rule and government , if not wise enough to go before and lead him . these , if every thing be not done in the church according to their capricio and humour , if the minister do not preach such a particular doctrine as they think will be most edifying , and in such words and phrases as they think most sound ; if he proceed not in the government of the church according to their model , and take them not with him to judge of his administrations ; they will never leave working like moles , till they have undermined him . though they cannot charge their minister with preaching or ruling contrary to the word of god , yet if he do not these things just as they have seen and heard them done in some other churches , which they are pleased to pronounce the most pure ; if all be not done according to the dictates of such or such a minister , whose person they have in admiration , they will withdraw themselves from the communion , buz about their discontents , till they have bred such a schism , as exceeds the ministers skill to unite and heal . i dare not say that all such are of their father the devil , but i will boldly affirm , that his works they do , and that they are herein and so far pests and plagues to christian societies . and 't is my serious thought , that if god in mercy doth not by some speedy unexpected providence prevent it , this sort of men will ruine our liberty , and bring us into miserable confusion . friends , if you call this railing , i cannot help it , but this shall support me , that god hath commanded me to mark them which cause divisions , rom. . . and that if i uprightly do my duty , god will at last acquit me , tho' men for the present condemn me ; god will for christ's sake shew me his reconciled face , tho' men ( my acquaintance and friends ) turn their backs upon me , and will not vouchsafe to hear me , i say to you as the apostle in another case , cor. . . would to god you could bear with me a little , and indeed bear with me . i have no delight in offending any body , be sure not in troubling those whom i have found comforters of me , and from whom i might possibly yet expect further comfort : i know discourses of this nature are not pleasant to either the guilty or innocent , and you may assure your selves i have as little pleasure in speaking them , as you have in hearing them . but i say as david to eliah , sam. . . is there not a cause ? is not this that i am speaking against a sin ? and hath it not done mischief these many years in this nation , and particularly in this place ? doth not this dividing spirit naturally lead to the levelling the ministry with the people , and destroying the necessary distinction of teachers and learners , rulers and ruled in churches ? and is not this the way , the high-way , to christianity-ruining , quakerism , and fanaticism ? and am not i a watch-man , and shall not a watchman speak when he seeth evil approaching ? you will cut a dog's throat that will not open when he should , and the spirit of god compares cowardly silent ministers ( that tell not the people of their sin and danger ) to dumb dogs that cannot bark ; and what the lot of a people is like to be , that have such ministers , you may see , isa . , . all the beasts of the field come to devour , yea all the beasts in the forest , &c. . proud contemners are to be reproved . such , i mean , who having knowledge and a greater latitude than others , do therefore despise and contemn their christian brethren , that , having less knowledge , make more scruples than they . this was the fault of the converted gentile in the apostle's time , and this is ( without rancour i speak it ) the fault of the more knowing ( if more knowing ) and less scrupulous church-man at this day . there was in the apostles day a dispute between the converted jews and gentiles about the lawfulness of eating such and such meats , and the necessity of keeping such and such mosaick holy-days or festivals , the converted jew thought that the coming of the messiah was to establish the jewish polity and mosaick institution ; therefore , tho' he believed in christ , yet he durst not but observe the ceremonial law. wherefore he conscienciously kept the jewish feasts enjoined by that law , and forbore those meats that were by that law pronounced unclean . the converted gentile being better informed , took no notice of the precepts or prohibitions of that law , but eat any meats , and took no notice of those feasts , rom. . , . this diversity of opinion and practice in these two parties of christians , occasioned a sinful distemper of mind in both , one against another ; the distemper of mind that the converted gentile sinfully harbour'd against his brother was proud contempt , as we learn by the apostle's prohibition , ver . . let not him that eateth , despise him that eateth not . by this it appears , that he did despise him ; he looked upon him as a scrupulous humoursome fool. brethren , we have a like case in this our day . some there are that think we be under the gospel tied up to all the circumstances of worship , as strictly as the jews were heretofore under the dispensation of moses , and that nothing is to admitted in or about the worship of god , but what is commanded in scripture . — there are others who think that we are not so strictly tied up under the gospel , but that if the direction of scripture be observ'd , as to the object of worship , the recommending mediator , and the assisting spirit ; if god the father , son and spirit be worshipped , and we present our adorations by the lord jesus , in the strength and vertue of the holy spirit ; if the doctrine preach'd be according to the analogy of faith , our prayers suitable to the directory for prayer commonly called the lord's prayer ; if we use no sacraments but such as christ hath appointed , and all be done in sincerity and truth , decency and order unto edification ; they think their worship nevertheless acceptable to god ; if in it they observe some ceremonies of man's appointing : this is the profess'd judgment of the church of england ; for these are her words , sc . we think it convenient , that every country should use such ceremonies as they shall think best to the setting forth of god's honour and glory , — i undertake not to determine at this time which is in the right here , but this i say , those church-men are to blame that do despise and vilify those who differ from them . 't is their sin , if they look upon and treat a person as an ignorant humoursome fool , meerly because he scruples those things that they can dispense with in the worship of god. 't is uncharitable and unchristian for such to overlook the substantial piety , and serious godliness that may be in such , meerly because they have not the compliment and finishing of supposed orthodoxness , in the business of circumstance and ceremony , of which even the church of england her self saith ; that the keeping or omitting of a ceremony is in it self but a small thing . when a church-man therefore shall in scornful pride look a-wry upon an humble , peaceable , pious , just , charitable christian , meerly because he is a dissenter from his ceremonies , he sins against the law of christ , and walks unsuitably to the principles of his own church . . vncharitable judgers are to be reprov'd . such , i mean , as allow themselves to condemn persons as graceless and prophane , upon account of their using such liberty as they scruple . this was the fault of the converted jew , as we learn by the words of the apostle , let not him that eateth not , judge him that eateth . and this ( to speak impartially ) is the fault of the censorious dissenter . as the jews heretofore condemned the gentile , as a prophane wicked person for his eating of meats forbidden by the ceremonial law ; so some dissenters ( thanks be to god 't is but some ) are ready to condemn those of the church of england as prophane and graceless , upon account of their use of the church forms and liturgy . those of them that are not visibly prophane and irreligious , they censure them as meer formalists ; the best they can think of them is , that they are sober moral persons , which by the way a meer pagan may be . if it be said that they are consciencious and serious in their way , that they are frequent at their devotions . o say these pragmatical censurers , 't is well if they don't rest in their duties , thereby intimating that they fear they do . — if their charity be mentioned , o say these , it may be they think to merit by their alms ; are not the papists charitable ? thus they audaciously step into god's throne , judging mens hearts with which they have nothing to do . brethren , i tell you faithfully , this is an evil and wicked thing , 't is against the plain word of god , which saith , judge not , that ye be not judged , matth. . . let us not judge one another any more , rom. . . 't is a sin against the doctrine of my text : for if the kingdom of god consisteth not in these smaller matters , persons of different , yea contrary opinions and perswasions about them , may both ( as you have already heard ) be the good and acceptable subjects of the lord redeemer . wherefore 't is a very unrighteous thing to condemn a man as a disloyal subject of the lord jesus for that which will not , cannot possibly prove him to be so , let all be said against it which the nature of the thing will admit . indeed , such a spirit is contrary to the drift of the gospel , that i have as little charity for such as for any sort of men whatsoever , that carry the face of religion in their lives . let but two texts be considered and compared together , and it will be i think an hard matter to make it out , how such censorious persons can be truly good , or ( which is the same ) real christians : the texts are , cor. . , . though i speak with the tongues of men and angels , and have not charity , i am become as sounding brass , or a tinkling cymbal : and though i have the gift of prophecy , and understand all mysteries , and all knowledge ; and though i have all faith , so that i could remove mountains , and have no charity , i am nothing . now compare ver . , . where 't is said of this charity among other things , that it thinketh no evil , but hopeth all things . by this text i am strongly inclined to think , that censorious persons ( those that are habitually and prevalently so ) do really want that charity which is essential to christianity , and so in the midst of their specious appearances and high pretensions are nothing . wherefore methinks persons should be afraid of being guilty of a sin that brings such a spot as seems not to be the spot of god's children . ( to use the words , deut. . . ) . hypocritical triflers are to be reproved . such , i mean , as satisfy themselves with adhering to the little things of opinion , with the soul-ruining neglect of the life of practical godliness . and whose fault is this ? perhaps you 'll say , alas friends ! this is the fault of most amongst all parties , this impertinent devil haunts church and meeting-house too . by him some are perswaded to think well of themselves , if they keep their church , say their prayers sundays and holidays , receive the sacrament according to the church of england , and never go to meetings . others think they must needs go to heaven if they be zealous dissenters , and never hear the common prayer ; if they join with the strictest sort , and but get to be church-members , and zealously cry down all that differ from them ; they think they be as safe from the danger of damnation , as those in noah's ark were from the danger of perishing by the flood , thus do some of both sides dream , though they be ignorant , earthly , sensual , impenitent , proud , wrathful , and unto every good work reprobate . foolish wretches , how do they mock their god , and cheat their own souls ! how hateful is their hypocrisy ! they strive for a ceremony , and neglect the substance of religion ; they scruple a ceremony , and yet live in the commission of gross sins . one he is for decency and order , but neglects sincerity and truth . another he is tooth and nail against supersttion and will-worship , and the same time indulgeth himself in the more hateful and mischievous sin of dissimulation and hypocrisy . poor souls ! what will their opinions avail them in the day of their account , when their hypocrisy shall be detected and laid open , and they shall by the sword of justice be cut in sunder , and have their portion with their fellow-hypocrites in hell ! as high as their confidences are built , 't is certain they must ( if they repent not ) fall into the bottomless pit , where their worm dieth not , and the fire is not quenched ; where there is ( eternally ) weeping , and wailing , and gnashing of teeth , matth. . . mark . . i conclude my discourses on this part of my text with this one exhortation . to poor weak christians that are ready to stumble , and be turned out of the way upon account of the many and various opinions that there are amongst christians at this day . be you assured , that you may please god , gain his favour and blessing on earth , glorify him before men , be happy in your death , and be eternally glorified with him in heaven hereafter , of which party of these differing christians soever you be . always provided you act according to your light , and sincerely live those grand duties which none dispute or question . that is to say , if you give up your selves to god as to your chief good and last end , to love and serve him before all , if you accept the lord jesus for your all-sufficient saviour , and obey and trust him , if you walk after the spirit speaking in and by the scriptures , endeavouring to die unto the world to crucify the flesh and resist the devil : if you live a sober , righteous , and godly life , loving god with all your heart , and your neighbour as your selves , and if you persevere herein unto the end , depending upon the merits and mediation of christ , for your pardon and acceptance , you shall be saved , which party of protestants soever you side with ; or , if you never trouble your selves with the disputes or contests amongst them . your being of one opinion or other as to these smaller matters , cannot possibly hinder your eternal salvation at last , or your comfortable walking with god here , so you conscientiously mind the substance of religion , wherein all are agreed . for 't is a certain truth , ( i pray you to remember it ) that no one party of protestants is so in the right as to christian religion , that the other be damningly wrong ; for the controversy amongst them is not about those things that are necessary to salvation , in these they are all agreed . wherefore 't is undoubtedly certain , that a church-man may be an holy man , and be saved . — a dissenter , of one sort or another ( whether presbyterian , independent , or anabaptist ) may be an holy man , and be saved . yea , they will be such infallibly , if they live the religion they profess , i doubt not , but that heaven is peopled with all these ( though there they be of one mind . ) wherefore the question is not , which is the way to heaven , by church or by meeting ? if it was , i would boldly say , either is the way . but the question is , which is the nearest , neatest , streightest way ? and here i 'll leave every one to judge for himself . only this for a conclusion . i exhort you ( having given up your selves to god by christ as aforesaid ) to put your selves under the pastoral care of such a ministry , as in your most deliberate judgment you think best qualify'd with ministerial gifts and graces , and most faithful in the use of them for the good of souls , and such as you have found by real and undoubted experience to be most useful to you . and when you have made your choice , remember your duty , and in humility , meekness and patience , learn of them , as of your spiritual guides , and submit your selves to them as to your spiritual rulers under christ , according to the word ; and you will find the blessing from heaven descending upon your souls in such a manner as will abundantly satisfy you , that you are going to heaven , whither you hear in a church or meeting-house . for the kingdom of god is not meat and drink , but righteousness , and peace , and joy in the holy ghost . finis . errata . first page epistle line . penult , for opinions read ceremonies . page . line . for of r. our . page . line . for him r. himself . page . l. . penult , dele them . helpes for discovery of the truth in point of toleration: being the judgment of that eminent scholler tho. cartwright, sometimes divinity-professor in the university of cambridge in the reigne of queen elizabeth of happy memory, and then a famous non-conformist, for which through the tyranny of the bishops he suffered exile. wherein the power and duty of the magistrate in relation to matters of religion is discussed; as also whether the judiciall lawes given by moses to the jewes are abrogate by the coming of christ. more particularly in relation to some sinnes, viz. blasphemy, adultery, &c. occasionally handled in a controversie betweene the said publike professor t.c. and doctor whitgift. here also by the way is laid downe his judgment in the case of divorce, and that the party innocent may marrie again. cartwright, thomas, - . this text is an enriched version of the tcp digital transcription a of text r in the english short title catalog (thomason e _ ). textual changes and metadata enrichments aim at making the text more computationally tractable, easier to read, and suitable for network-based collaborative curation by amateur and professional end users from many walks of life. the text has been tokenized and linguistically annotated with morphadorner. the annotation includes standard spellings that support the display of a text in a standardized format that preserves archaic forms ('loveth', 'seekest'). textual changes aim at restoring the text the author or stationer meant to publish. this text has not been fully proofread approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. earlyprint project evanston,il, notre dame, in, st. louis, mo a wing c thomason e _ estc r this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (thomason tracts ; :e [ ]) helpes for discovery of the truth in point of toleration: being the judgment of that eminent scholler tho. cartwright, sometimes divinity-professor in the university of cambridge in the reigne of queen elizabeth of happy memory, and then a famous non-conformist, for which through the tyranny of the bishops he suffered exile. wherein the power and duty of the magistrate in relation to matters of religion is discussed; as also whether the judiciall lawes given by moses to the jewes are abrogate by the coming of christ. more particularly in relation to some sinnes, viz. blasphemy, adultery, &c. occasionally handled in a controversie betweene the said publike professor t.c. and doctor whitgift. here also by the way is laid downe his judgment in the case of divorce, and that the party innocent may marrie again. cartwright, thomas, - . cartwright, thomas, - , attributed name. [ ], p. printed for thomas banks, at the signe of the seale in westminster hall, london : . sometimes erroneously attributed to thomas cartwright - . annotation on thomason copy: "jan. "; the in imprint date has been crossed out and date altered to . reproduction of the original in the british library. eng religious tolerance -- england -- early works to . divorce -- great britain -- early works to . justices of the peace -- england -- early works to . justice -- biblical teaching -- early works to . a r (thomason e _ ). civilwar no helpes for discovery of the truth in point of toleration:: being the judgment of that eminent scholler tho. cartwright, sometimes divinity- cartwright, thomas c the rate of defects per , words puts this text in the c category of texts with between and defects per , words. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - aptara keyed and coded from proquest page images - pip willcox sampled and proofread - pip willcox text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion helpes for discovery of the truth in point of toleration : being the judgment of that eminent scholler tho. cartwright , sometimes divinity-professor in the university of cambridge in the reigne of queen elizabeth of happy memory , and then a famous non-conformist , for which through the tyranny of the bishops he suffered exile . wherein the power and duty of the magistrate in relation to matters of religion is discussed ; as also whether the judiciall lawes given by moses to the jewes are abrogate by the coming of christ . more particularly in relation to some sinnes , viz. blasphemy , adultery , &c. occasionally handled in a controversie betweene the said publike professor t. c. and doctor whitgift . here also by the way is laid downe his judgment in the case of divorce , and that the party innocent may marrie again . london , printed for thomas banks , at the signe of the seale in westminster hall . . to the reader . christian reader , for understanding this piece of mr. cartwrights , thou art to consider , that it is an extract out of a booke of his written for a reply to the then bishop of canterbury dr. whitgift . and finding that he unfolds many truths for the setling of mens judgments in these times , as concerning the force of the judiciall lawes of moses given to the jewes , concerning the punishment of blasphemy , adultery , &c. it was judged likely to prove usefull to the church of christ if it were made more publike , the old book being neer worn out of print . the extent and continuance of the law morall , ceremoniall , and judiciall , with their severall uses , not being well considered , hath been the cause that many errors of late times have been pleaded for . somthing of the law was abrogated by the coming of christ : this being hinted and taken hold of by the ignorant and unstable , they understand it of the abrogation of all , both ceremoniall , judiciall and morall , and so open a gap to licentiousnesse . thus by confounding what should be distinguisht , many absurdities have their rise . there is somthing morall among the iudicialls , which will stand against all opposition . there is somwhat in the morall which is abrogate to the believer , as the curse , the condemning power , the irritating nature , &c. qui bene distinguit , bene docet . i leave the clearing of some of these things to this ensuing extract : the lord grant us discerning spirits , together with hearts to walk in the light of his truth , when we discerne it . helpes for discovery of the truth , in point of toleration . my former assertion was , that we have a word of god for our direction in all things which we have to doe . my reason illustrating this truth was this , that otherwise our estate should be worse then the state of the jews , who had direction ( as is on all hands confest ) out of the law , even for the least things ; and whereat it is the vertue of a good law , to leave as little undetermined , and without the compasse of the law , as can be , my adversary d. w. imagining that we have no word for divers things , wherein the jews had particular direction , supposeth a greater perfection ●n the law given to the jewes , then in that which is left to us . that this is a principall vertue of the law , may be seen ●nd evidenced thus ; first , because conscience that is well ●●nstructed and touched with the feare of god , will seek direction from the light of gods word , even in the smallest actions . secondly , common reason will urge it , the masters whereof give this rule , {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , &c. arist. ad theod. viz. it greatly behoveth those lawes which are well made , as much as can be to determine of all things , and to leave as few things as may be to the discretion of the judge . i added , that the new testament is a noble addition to the old , that it maketh the old more manifest , and bringeth greater light ; which expression ( though d. w. wrangleth withall ) is no other then mr. calvin useth on tim. . where he calls the gospel an addition to the law : let us therefore now consider , whether in the matter of the judiciall law , that which i have set downe be strange and dangerous , as dr. w. surmiseth . i doe not affirm , that the magistrate is simply bound to the judiciall law of moses ; but that he is bound to the equity , which i also call the substance and marrow of them , in regard of which equity , i affirm that , there are certaine lawes among the judicialls , which cannot be changed . hereof i gave example in the laws which command , that a stubborn idolater , blasphemer , murtherer , incestuous person , and such like should be put to death . for the first point , that the equity of the judicialls doth remain , and therefore ought to be a rule to direct all laws by : to let passe the authority of mr calvin , mr beza , and other writers of our time , who have written with any judgement of this matter , ( who doe in plain words affirm , that there is a perpetuall equity in them , and that our laws , though they differ in forme , yet ought to retaine the reason or ground of them ) i say to let that passe , i assert , that all these laws , morall , ceremoniall , and judiciall , being the laws of god , and by his revealed will established , must so farre forth remaine , as it appeareth not by his will that they are revoked . to boult out therefore this truth , seeing the altering or revoking of any law must be by our saviours comming only , let us inquire what those laws are which he put an end unto . this thing may be considered in that division which s. paul useth , where he saith that our saviour christ came to make peace , first between god and men , and then between men and men ; that is to say between the jews and gentiles . . the ceremoniall law therefore being a law of enmity ( which as a wall held out the gentiles from joyning themselves unto the jews ) was necessary , among other causes , in this respect to be taken away . secondly , the curse of the law , for the breach of any of the lawes of god , either pertaining to the jews in times past , or unto us now ( being that which maketh the wall between the lord and us ) was , for our reconciliation with his majesty , necessarily to be removed : whereupon it followeth , first , that the morall law ( as that which hindereth not our reconciliation with god , nor our good agreement with men ) is in as full strength as ever it was before the comming of our saviour christ : for the curse of the law besides that , it is in regard of the elect , rather fulfilled and executed in the person of our saviour christ , then abrogated . . besides that also , it hath a necessary use as yet towards the elect , not only to drive them to the faith which is in christ jesus , but also to keep under the remnants of rebellion , even of them which have already believed . and . besides that , the force thereof is dayly , and shall be for ever executed upon the wicked . . besides all this , seeing this curse was annexed not only to the breach of the morall law , but also of the ceremoniall and judiciall , there is no just cause , why the morall law should be said to be abrogated . secondly it followeth hereupon , that those judiciall laws of moses , which are meerly politck , and without all mixture of ceremonies , must remain , as those which hinder not the attonement of jews and gentiles with god , or of one of them with another . besides this , it being manifest , that our saviour christ came not to dissolve any good government of common-wealth , he can least of all be thought to come to destroy that which himselfe had established . of this point dr. w. hath two contrary sentences , one of musculus , which saith that the judiciall law is abrogate , the other of beza , which is , that the judiciall law being given to the jewes , is not yet abrogate , so that if they had any estate of common-wealth in the land of canaan , they should be constrained to use that forme of government , which was given to them by moses . now albeit those lawes given unto the jews for that land , doe not bind the gentiles in other lands , forsomuch as the diversity of the dispositions of the people , and state of that country , gave occasion of some laws there , which would not have been in other places , yet forasmuch as there is in those laws a constant and everlasting equity whereupon they were grounded , . and the same perfecter and further from errour then the forge of mans reason ( which is even in this behalfe shrewdly wounded , ) is able to devise ; it followeth , that even in making politick laws for the common-wealth , christian magistrates ought to propound unto themselves those laws , and in light of their equity by a just proportion of circumstances , of person , place , &c. to frame them . now to prove this truth , that the equitie of the iudiciall law remaineth , ( not as a counsail which men may follow if they list , and leave at their pleasure , but ) as a law whereto they be bound , i shall prove by an argument taken from that of the apostle in cor . where after he had alleaged divers similitudes , fetcht from the common use of men , to prove that a minister of the gospel ought to be maintained upon the churches charge ; least it might be objected that these were but humane reasons , he citeth one of the judiciall laws , as the eternall law of god , deut. . . thou shalt not muzzell the mouth &c. where it is manifest , that he doubteth not to bind the conscience of the corinths unto the equity of that law which was judiciall , and so urgeth it ver. . likewise of the finding of the priests in the service of the altar , commanded in the law , he concludeth , that those which preach the gospel should live of it . and this maintenance of the priest , albeit in the manner of the provision it was meerly ceremoniall , yet as it was a reward of their service , due by men ( as the punishments also , if they had failed in their duties , ) was meer judiciall . whereupon it followeth , that in those judicialls , to all the circumstances whereof we are not bound , we are yet bound to the equity of them . it remaineth to shew , that there are certain judiciall lawes which cannot be changed , as that a blasphemer , contemptuous and stubborn idolater , &c. ought to be put to death . they which would have this left at liberty , have nothing to alledge to colour their loosenesse , but the coming of christ and his passion : but they do not see how this their arguing faultreth divers wayes . for , . it is a childish error to think , that our saviour christ came to exempt men from corporall death , which the law casteth upon evill doers , when as he came not to deliver from death , which is the parting of the body from the soule , but from that which is the separation both of body and soul from the gracious presence of the lord . and if it were so , that our saviour christ had born in his body this civill punishment of publike offenders , it must thereupon follow , not that it is in the liberty of the magistrate to put them to de●th , but that he must , will he , nill he , if they repent , keep them alive . for if our saviour hath answered that justice of god in his law , whereby he hath commanded that such malefactors should be put to death , it should be great injustice to require that again in the life of the offender . . againe , this opinion is injurious to the death of christ ; for if he were for this cause made manifest in the slesh , that he might destroy sin , which is the work of the devill , ioh. . . this imagination of a liberty left to the magistrate , whether he will put them to death or not , doth make christ build againe that kingdome of sin which he hath destroyed : for , when both in common reason , and by the manifest word of god , the lord giveth this blessing unto the punishment of such grievous offenders by death , that others ( not only which see , but also ) which heare of them , have the bridle of feare put upon them , whereby they are with-holden from the like crimes , it must needs follow , that whosoever maketh our saviour christ author of this loosenesse , in not punishing such offenders , maketh him forthwith to loose the bridle whereby others are stayed from throwing themselves down the hill of wickednesse which was before committed : and what is , if this be not , to make our saviour christ a troubler of common-wealths ? moreover , if our saviour christ by his coming loosed these civill punishments , and purchased this grace of his father for blasphemers , &c. that if they could find favour in the eyes of the magistrate , they might escape the hands of death , which the law of god adjudgeth them unto : how commeth it to passe , that the apostles , to whom the lord committed the publishing of all that pardon which he obtained for us , did never make mention of the slaking of these punishments ? if our saviour christ had obtained this liberty , it was worthy the preaching ; and therefore unlesse d. w. can shew something out of the writings of the apostles , to warrant this sanctuary , which he would so faine build to the support of blasphemers , murderers , &c. it followeth , that the apostles , by his saying , have not answered the trust committed unto them ; but if all godly minds doe abhorre these absurdities , there is no cause why they should like of this corruption of the doctor , whereupon all these depend . nay in that the apostle putteth a sword in the hand of the magistrate , and in the use of it maketh him a minister and servant of the vengeance and justice of the lord against sinne : he striketh through this opinion , which imagineth that our saviour christ came to hang the sword of the lords justice upon the pleasure and will of man . for the magistrate being the lords officer , as the sheriffe is the magistrates : it is no more in his choice to with-hold the sword which the lord hath put in his hand to draw , then in the power of the sheriffe , to stay the execution of that judgement , which the magistrate himselfe hath lawfully commanded , now seeing there is a sword in the magistrates hand , by the doctrine of the apostles , and that also which the magistrate must of duty draw ; i would gladly know where that necessity of drawing this sword can be found , if it be not in these crimes of blasphemy , &c. which i have set downe ? and if he say that paul , by the sword understandeth all manner of civill punishments , as well by the purse , as by other bodily chastisements which spare the life ; i grant it , but by an usuall manner of speech which is figurative , and noteth the whole by the part , he rather chose to utter those punishments by the sword , then either by the whip or purse : whereby he did not only not exclude this necessity of punishing malefactors with death , but laid rather a straiter bond upon the magistrate to execute those which commit things worthy of death . hitherto generally of putting those to death , which commit things against the laws remaining still in force , as they were in times past established by the bloud of the transgressors : now i will come to the particular crimes set downe , and first for the crime of adultery . it is to be considered that the crime of adultery is a breach of the holy and ancient , both institution and solemn covenant of the lord , then that it is an injury done unto the innocent party in the most precious possession that can be , in things pertaining to this present life , joyned with dishonour cast not only upon the person , but upon all his children , and in a manner on all those that belong unto him . thirdly that this fire doth not only wast the family where it is , but maketh a breach into the common-wealth , whilst the right of inheritance , either of lands or offices is oftentimes thus translated from the true inheritors , while the children which are so begotten , having oft times lesse care and cost bestowed on them in their education , become hurtfull members of the commonwalth ; whereby all may clearely see the perpetuall equity of the law of god in the revengement of this sinne by death . and when the lord addeth this for a reason of putting the adulterer to death , that the evill may be taken out of israel , unto the heap of discommodities before rehearsed for fault of executing this judgement of death , he threatneth the whole common-wealth with mischiefe to fall upon it ; and the equity of this punishment by death hath so lightsome colours upon it , that it hath upholden it selfe against the ignorance and injustice of all which have not willingly put out that sparkle which standeth in the discretion of honesty ; for even before this candle light of the law of god was set up , not onely the godly ( as job ) which were in some part reformed of the generall blindnesse , but even those that were not of the church of god , as abimelech the king of gerar , and the very canaanite ( as long as there was any step of equity among them ) did see that the filth of this sinne was such , as ought to be washed away with the bloud of the offenders . for whereas isaac feared the assault , both of his life and of the chastity of rebecka , the king ordained that whosoever either laid violent hands on him , or had to doe with his wife , should die ; and in that judah called for thamar to be led forth to death in the land of canaan , where himselfe was but a private man , for that she being made sure unto an husband , plaid the harlot : he gave to understand , that the canaanites , who had even then filled a good part of that measure of sin unto the brinke , whereof they came afterward did notwithstanding pursue adulterers unto death . and when the lord did afterward give testimony to this punishment by the expresse words of his law , it is manifest , that the law which god hath written in the table of the hearts of all men , pronounceth the sentence of death against adulterers : so that unlesse men will like gyants fight against the light of nature , or say , that our saviour christ came to abolish that which in all times and with all nations ( not altogether spoiled of the discretion of honesty and dishonesty ) was observed , it followeth , that the punishment of adultery by death , and consequently much more the punishment of incestuous meetings by death , standeth in as full force now as ever it did before the coming of our saviour christ . the exceptions against this doctrine are of no value , for if this be the truth of god there can be no prerogative against it , unlesse he can shew some higher court then heaven , and some chief justice above the lord . it is not denied , but the punishments by death whereby men have established lawes which themselves have for their better commodity devised , may be either mitigated or taken away by those to whom it appertained ; neither is the magistrate by any thing which i have set downe bound to mitigate the punishment of theeves . for , their punishment may grow by the circumstance of place , as in scithia where all things lying open to the spoile , had need to be locked up by the straighter punishment , and sometimes by the disposition of the people lighter handed then others , as if one had to do with the lacedemonians , or some nation in whom that sinne had taken deeper root . and i will not deny , but even these crimes of murther and adultery may vary by divers circumstances , and therefore the magistrate may according to the quantity of the fault appoint the manner of death sharper or milder . but that there is any place , time , or other circumstance , which can lessen these crimes that they should not be worthy of death , upon the reasons before alledged , i utterly deny . it may be objected , that the law of our saviour christ touching divorcement for adultery , mat. . . had been to no purpose , if the adulterer ought of necessity to be put to death . first , he that urgeth this may be justly charged with a mistake in bringing in our saviour christ there as a maker of lawes under the gospell , whereas he made none in those places , but expounded the law of god , which he had made from the beginning ; the other refusalls made by the jewes of their wives , were never any lawes but permissions only : and therefore in their abolishment there was no law of god abrogated . secondly , it was necessary to use that exposition , notwithstanding that the punishment of the law by death remained ; for besides that the jewes being under the government of the romanes had those civill punishments by death suspended upon the pleasure of their officers , who were often corrupted : our saviour christ fore-seeing all things did fore-see what loosenesse would follow in this behalfe , and therefore as the office of a good teacher required , he instructed the conscience , and taught that albeit the magistrate faile in the execution of the law , yet that the former yoke being broken , men were at their liberty to enter into a new contract of marriage with other ; whereby he met with the corrupt opinion of those which dreame that the knot of marriage is not cut asunder by adultery during the life of the parties married . now for the opinion of musculus before quoted , at pa. . although his manner of speech ( in saying that all moses is abrogated ) be hard , yet it will appeare that d. w. hath wrested this learned mans words from his meaning , and that he is but a snatcher at syllables ; for the meaning of that learned man musculus was , that these lawes are abrogate , as given by moss , and doe notwithstanding remaine as they containe a perpetuall equity ; and that this is his meaning may be proved by comparing him with himselfe , for in the same title of lawes he writeth thus , there are ( saith he ) that think that christ did abrogate the punishment prescribed by the law against adulterers , when he saith , neither doe i condemne thee , goe and sinne no more ; these be gay fellowes , they thinke not of this , that our saviour christ came into the world , not to judge or punish , but to save sinners : and yet in the meane season not to take away the punishments of the law , given of god his father by moses ; whereupon he said not simply , thon thoughtest not to be condemned , &c. and so sheweth , that if she had been condemned according to the sentence of the law , that the lord would not have spoke against it . this our saviours refusall to condemn this woman taken in adultery , doth no more cease the punishment due to adultery , then his refusing to judge in the division of an inheritance when he was requested , doth countenance anabaptisticall community , or doth prove , that inheritances should not be divided , in both these he refuseth to meddle , as impertinent to that spirituall work he intended ] calvin in his comment on john , calleth it popish divinity , that the sentence of our saviour christ , jo. . should bring any favour to adulterers , as touching the civill punishment . as for mr. beza , it is known that he proveth that hereticks ought by the law of god to be put to death , whereby it appears that he beleeves those judicialls which give sentence of death against the crimes here set down to be still in as full force as ever they were . unto which i could add peter martir , who hath a long dispute of the necessary observation of this law against adulterers , and as i have shewed there is none of these crimes but even the law of nature will teach us , that they ought to receive the reward af death . the dr. proceeds , and seeks to make one difference between the law and gospel , to ly in relation to the severity of the law and lenity of the gospel , in respect of temporall punishment . the answer . i say that in this very point , a great part of the errour of the manichees doth consist , for they were led to condemne the justice of god under the old testament , because of the outward punishments which were exercised partly by the hand of god by judgements from heaven , and partly by the ministery of men at the commandment of the law ; therefore the favour of manichism is still hot as ever it was . but since i am entred into the mention of this , the truth is , that even in these outward punishments , the dispensaton of god under the law , is divers from that under the gospel ; for under the paedagogy of the law , as he crowned the obedience of it for the most part with greater abundance of outward blessings , then he doth the obedience of his saints under the gospel : so did he with more terrible , more often , and more manifest judgements , revenge the breach of it in that time , then he doth now . and herein indeed is the difference which the dr. is groping after but cannot hit on it ; but that this should bring any diversity in the set and ordinary punishments prescribed by the law , i for my part cannot understand . the contrary rather i can gather ; for even as although the lord doth not now by outward blessings give so plentifull testimony to the obedience of the gospell , as then of the law : yet the magistrate ought to be as diligent to procure the good of the church as ever he was in the time of the law : even so although the lord by bodily punishments doth not so severely revenge as he did then , yet the magistrate may not remit any thing therfore of that severity which he was wont to use . nay more , even as the magistrate ought so much the more carefully to procure the outward welfare of the church now , as the lord withdraweth his hand that way , more now then he did then , even so ought he to keep by so much an harder hand over the punishment of sinne now , then he did then , as the lord more rarely thundereth by his judgements from heaven , now , then he did in time of the law . and sruely , if ever there had been any time wherein the magistrates sword might have rested and rusted in the sheath , the time of the law of all had been most fittest : when the lord did so visibly sit in judgement , and himselfe in proper person hold the assize . the causes of this diversity between the law and gospell may be seen in those learned men mentioned , which handle the point . it is enough for me , so to helpe the dr. out , with what he travelled with , that i have shewed , that what is by me here laid downe is nothing hindered , but greatly helped by this difference which he bringeth betweene the law , and the gospel . next , the dr. finds fault with my interpretation of that place of zachary , concerning putting to death him that prophesied falsly , his reason is , because ( forsooth ) by that means the parents should have power of death upon their children ; therefore ( saith the dr. ) there must be some other sence sought out , then that which the words doe purport . whereunto i answer , that moses shewing what ought to be done against those false teachers which goe about secretly to withdraw from the true worship of god , saith , deu. . , . that though it be his brother , his sonne , his daughter , or his wife , he shall not spare but kill them : tell me now i pray you , doth not moses mean there truly , and as his words sound , that the false teacher shall die ? if you cannot deny it , then you see that your reason which you here assigne is nothing worth , for there also it is commanded to the father to kill his sonne . but if you list to learne , you may perceive that by these words understood simply , there is no power given to one private man to kill another , nor for the parent ( as a private man ) to kill his children : but this manner of speech is grounded upon the law of god , deut. . . whereby it was provided , that the witnesse which had accused should throw the first stone against the convicted person ; forasmuch therefore , as both moses and zachary after moses , will have the father accuser of his own child , if the knowledge of his inticement to idolatry remaine with him alone , therefore also they ascribe the killing of the guilty person unto them , as a thing belonging to the duty of the accuser . oh! but your words seem to give suspition of a difference between the jewes and us , what is that ? why that christian parents should rather put their children to death , then to be with-drawne by them : so that the jewes have an absolute commandement to put them to death , but the christians have it under condition , if they cannot otherwise keep still the true worship of god . but where and in what shop is this difference quoined ? for how shall they be sure they shall not be with-drawne by him , unlesse they procure him to be put to death ? and although they were out of the perill of being with-drawn , how are others provided for , whom he may corrupt ? and if it were possible that poison which he hath , could not hurt any other , where is the revenge of gods glory which hath been dishonoured by such false teaching ? and in the maintenance whereof the zeale of gods children as well under the gospell as under the law doth consist ? i conclude therefore that place of zachary ( against your fond distinction ) that the same severity of punishment which was used against false prophets then , ought to be used now under the gospell against false teachers , comparing one person and circumstance with another . as he which hath fallen from god , and gone about to draw others away , to be handled according to the law prescribed in that . of deut. if this be extreme , i am content to be so counted with the holy ghost . and though in some cases of idolatry , upon repentance life is given , yet in this case and some other expressed in the law , as of open and horrible blasphemy of the name of god ; i deny that upon repentance there ought to follow any pardon of death , which the judiciall law doth require . besides , it is an anabaptisticall tenent to avoid all punishment of sin whatsoever , to maintain that , for whatever offence a man commit , if he shew tokens of repentance , he may be delivered from bodily punishment : for what murtherer , what traitor , &c. which though he be never so unrepentant and obstinate in his sin , hearing that upon repentance there is a way to escape death , will not inforce himselfe to shew all tokens of repentance ? let this truth therefore be further enforced by this argument . forasmuch as i have shewed out of the new testament that he who killeth a man , and taketh away his corporall life ought to die , it followeth much more , that he which taketh away the life of the soule should die : and if it be meet to maintaine the life of man by the punishment of death , how should the honour of god , which is more precious then all mens lives , be with smaller punishment established ? therefore to close up this question , i will adde this ; that the magistrates which punish murtherers and thiefes , and treasons , with other transgressors of the second table severely , and are loose in punishing the breaches of the first table , begin at the wrong end , and do all one with those , who to drie up many rivers continually fed by one fountain , begin at the channells where it divideth and parteth it selfe into many armes : which as it is an endlesse labour , so is this also which they go about ; for whereas s. paul teacheth rom. . that god for revenge of the dishonour of his name , giveth men over to wicked minds , to the committing all kind of filthinesse , and of all kind of sins against the second table , be they never so horrible ; and so maketh the breach of the first table the cause of the breach of the second : it cannot be ( let the magistrate lay as good watch as he can , and aggravate punishments as much as he can , ) i say it cannot be but where either the first table is broken , or the breach not duly revenged , but swarms of treasons , thefts , murthers , adulteries , perjuries and such like , must needs breake out in those governments . and therefore as the short and easie way to dry up the channells and rivers is to stop up the head and fountaine of all , so the only remedy of purging the common-wealth of these mischiefes , is to bend the force of sharp and severe punishments especially against idolaters , blasphemers , contemners of true religion , and of the service of god . and therefore i conclude , that those which would have the severity of the law against idolaters , &c. abated , doe at unawares not onely thereby utter the small price which they set either of gods glory , or of the salvation of their brethren , but withall declare themselves enemies to common-wealths , and of all both civill and godly honestie of life . finis . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a e- ☜ calv. instit. l. c. . sect. . beza de comburendis haereticis . eph. . pa. . ☞ . argument . pag. . pag. . deut. . argument , to prove the judiciall law still in force . ioe . rom. . pag. . lev. . iob. . . gen. . . gen. . . an objection answered . . answer . . answer . joh. . . joh. . pag. . see also bezae confessio christianae fidei , ca. . de ecclesia sect. . dr. vv. t. c. ob. zach. . reas. the answer of t. c. pag. . pag. . arg. pag. . arg. pag. .